1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:12,960 The September 8th, 2026 work session is now called to order. Um, first up, we 2 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:17,119 will have a proclamation for abilities advocacy month with Star Communities. 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:21,439 And I would like to ask Sylvia Ge, which is the marketing events manager, and 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:24,920 Danny, Sarah, and Scott to come up to the front, please. 5 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:49,280 Okay. The city has a proclamation for abilities and advocacy month. Uh people 6 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:52,719 have have the dignity to be valued and accepted for their abilities and the 7 00:00:50,879 --> 00:00:56,879 inclusion of all abilities is integral in the in the growth and prosperity of 8 00:00:54,719 --> 00:01:00,719 our community and citizens of Haggartown should raise awareness of the importance 9 00:00:58,559 --> 00:01:03,920 of advocating for all abilities and be made aware of the value of people with 10 00:01:02,239 --> 00:01:07,760 different abilities and our community must actively respect include support 11 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,360 and educate to support a community of all abilities. Therefore, I, William 12 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:16,000 McIntyre, mayor of city of Heggertown, do hereby proclaim and recognize 13 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:19,680 September 2026 as abil abilities advocacy month in Haggartown, Maryland. 14 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:24,080 The city of Heggertown encourages all businesses, organizations, and community 15 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:29,880 members to respect, include, support, and educate to establish Haggartown as a 16 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,880 community of all abilities. 17 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:40,079 » Graduate, too. 18 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,040 We got five. 19 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:59,759 » Great. Thank you. >> Great. Thank you so much. 20 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:05,200 » Yeah. Yeah, that's great. >> Oh, hi, sir. 21 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:09,360 » Did you want to say anything for me? >> Oh, sure. Yeah. Um, we're we're so 22 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:13,120 thankful for this proclamation. This is the third year in a row that Hagerstown 23 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:16,640 has allowed us to proclaim abilities advocacy month. And it's really great 24 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:22,319 because it shows that we are just making continual um progress in our community 25 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:26,640 being super um supportive of everyone with disabilities and making advocacy 26 00:02:24,959 --> 00:02:31,239 something that you do intentionally every day. So, thank you so much. 27 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:40,360 There you go. 28 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:52,239 » You're good. >> Here we go. Good smile. One, two, three. 29 00:02:48,959 --> 00:02:55,879 And one, two, three. Okay. Thank you. 30 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:14,959 All right. Next up, um, have Nancy and Tyler come up for presentation of 31 00:03:13,519 --> 00:03:19,400 Maryland Department Environment Environment Optimization Award. 32 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,560 Okay. 33 00:03:33,519 --> 00:03:41,760 » Hello, I'm Marissa Diggins from the Maryland Department of the Environment. 34 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:48,560 Um, I'm with uh the uh engineering and technicals assistance division 35 00:03:44,319 --> 00:03:55,760 um with the water supply program. Um I am here to present the 2025 optimization 36 00:03:52,000 --> 00:04:03,280 gold award for the city of Hagerstown's water. Um they met optimization goals in 37 00:04:00,799 --> 00:04:06,280 uh influent or 38 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:16,720 their um turbid uh turbidities um for all settle water turbidities um and 39 00:04:14,959 --> 00:04:21,600 their um 40 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:29,280 individual filter effluentities and combined filter effluentities. 41 00:04:23,919 --> 00:04:36,320 um um based on the uh goals set by the Arowide Optimization Program or AWOP. Um 42 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:40,960 so they get um the gold award. Um 43 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:46,560 congratulations everyone. >> All right. 44 00:04:43,919 --> 00:04:51,199 » Yeah, just real quick um very grateful for this. MD started this um three years 45 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:56,000 ago and we've received this all three years. So, it's just a testament to hard 46 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:59,520 work, dedication, and commitment of staff. So, thankful for them with this. 47 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,680 So, great job. >> Thank you. 48 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,639 » Good job, Hagerstown. 49 00:05:12,479 --> 00:05:15,479 » Yeah. 50 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,919 » Marissa. Marissa. 51 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:26,680 Sorry, >> I didn't realize there was a picture. 52 00:05:38,479 --> 00:05:41,960 » Okay, thank you. 53 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:50,560 » Thank you so much. All right, next up we have Nathan Frieder with the cost of 54 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:53,560 service and electric retail operating rates. 55 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,280 There they are. 56 00:06:09,759 --> 00:06:16,240 » Good evening. Thank you for uh having us this evening. Uh we're here again to 57 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:21,680 discuss operating rates, retail operating rates. 58 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:25,840 Uh last rate increase took effect February 1st, 2025. 59 00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:35,039 Uh we were approved by the commission for an increase of about $1.98 million. 60 00:06:30,479 --> 00:06:41,039 Uh we recently reviewed the FY25 audited financials 61 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:49,120 and have determined that an additional $1.4 $4 million is uh needed to maintain 62 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:55,520 our current operations. Um this looks like a 19% increase on the bait on just 63 00:06:52,479 --> 00:07:00,319 on the b the base operating rate. Um once you factor in purchase power cost 64 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:08,479 adjustment u it'll look like a 3 and a.5% increase on customer bills. uh 65 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:15,599 which for a typical or average residential customer using 1,000 66 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:21,720 kilowatt hours per month of electricity is about $49 per month. 67 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,720 Um 68 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:35,360 yeah, so uh we have Jake Thomas and Terara Deose from GDS and Associates on 69 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:41,759 the on the on the line and they prepared a presentation to go through some of the 70 00:07:38,479 --> 00:07:48,400 details in the rate making process. So Jake, can you hear us? 71 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:51,800 » I can. Can you hear me? >> We sure can. 72 00:07:52,880 --> 00:08:00,160 » Excellent. Uh, Nathan, are you going to do the slides for us? 73 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:03,759 » Yes, I have the vote in hand. >> Okay. 74 00:08:02,879 --> 00:08:06,479 Okay. >> I don't know where it is. 75 00:08:04,879 --> 00:08:10,240 » All right. Well, uh, good afternoon everyone while they're getting those 76 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:15,120 ready. Yeah. Again, I'm um Jake Thomas with GDS Associates. I'm a principal in 77 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:20,400 our rates and regulator regulatory department. I've been with GDS about 30 78 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:25,680 years now doing cost of service and rate studies for public power utilities all 79 00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:29,840 over the country. Um, for those of you who have been around for a couple years, 80 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:33,839 I've worked on the filing in 2024 and made a couple of presentations to city 81 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:38,399 council at that time as well. Uh, and then I have with me Tara Deose and this 82 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,120 is her first project with Hagerstown. I'll let her introduce herself real 83 00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:46,800 quick and then we'll jump into the presentation. 84 00:08:43,680 --> 00:08:53,120 » Hi, thanks Jake. Um, hi I'm Tara Dubose. I'm a director at GDS in the rates and 85 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:58,160 regulatory group working with Jake. Um, my my background is cost of service and 86 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:03,279 rate design for mostly um, regulated investor own utilities, but I'm now 87 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:08,160 working on some municipals and co-op work. I've been doing that for about 25 88 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:11,800 years and I've been with GDS started this year in 2026. 89 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:20,080 » Okay. Thanks, Tara. So, um, we've got a slide deck here we're going to talk 90 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:23,200 through. Um, we're happy to entertain questions as we go through. So, 91 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:27,200 certainly feel free to interrupt and ask questions and we can make it 92 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:31,080 conversational here. So, um, if we can go to the first slide, please. 93 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:48,240 See here. Right now, I see Terra and the slide. 94 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:51,640 One moment. Let me change my view. The same issue. 95 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:05,040 » Okay. Um so sorry for the delay there. So in terms of the process, um when we 96 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:09,360 do a rate study for a utility, there's a three-step process uh that we go 97 00:10:07,680 --> 00:10:14,399 through. And this is similar to the process that um that you you know all 98 00:10:12,399 --> 00:10:18,079 regulated utilities before the the public service commission go through. Uh 99 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,040 and the first step is what's called revenue requirements. And there what 100 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:26,800 we're just trying to understand is what is the total revenue we need to meet our 101 00:10:23,839 --> 00:10:31,120 financial objectives and to earn an approved rate of return on our 102 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:36,560 investment in an electric utility system. Um the second step is what's 103 00:10:33,839 --> 00:10:39,519 called a cost of service analysis. And in that analysis, what we're trying to 104 00:10:38,079 --> 00:10:44,480 do is we're trying to take all of the costs that we incur and book in common 105 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:48,079 and split that out to the different customer classes. So residential, 106 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,600 commercial, light and power, and outdoor lights and street lights so that we can 107 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,839 understand what does it cost us to serve each of our different customer types. 108 00:10:53,279 --> 00:11:00,560 They use the grid in different ways and so that drives costs differently amongst 109 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:04,959 them. Uh with those two pieces of information, we can move into rate 110 00:11:02,079 --> 00:11:09,519 design where we design rates to collect the amount of revenue requirement that 111 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:13,440 we've identified and use the cost of service information to help inform that 112 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:16,560 rate design. So, we're going to this afternoon kind of walk through each of 113 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:20,640 these three steps with you to get you to where um the the current case is that 114 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:26,000 we're going to be filing with the commission. Next slide. 115 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:30,320 So in terms of the process uh in a regulated environment uh as as Nathan 116 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:36,959 indicated our last rate change became effective on February 1st of 2025 117 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:41,600 we filed that case in um I think third quarter of 2024. So there is a bit of a 118 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:45,839 lag between when we file the case and then when we reach a settlement or get a 119 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:50,000 a a judgment from the commission on what we're allowed to do and then actually 120 00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:55,440 get it instituted. Um, we will be filing this new request for the PSC in 121 00:11:52,399 --> 00:12:01,120 September. Um, the case is subject to a regulatory process that includes um some 122 00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:05,279 interveners that can uh dig into all of our data and provide testimony on what 123 00:12:03,839 --> 00:12:09,200 they think is appropriate relative to what we are asking for. In the last 124 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:12,480 case, there were only two interveners. there was the the public service 125 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:17,279 commission itself and their staff of experts and then there was the Maryland 126 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:22,320 office of the people's council um who is an agency who primarily their their 127 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:27,760 primary focus is protecting residential consumers throughout the state. Um as we 128 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,720 go through that process again as I said there's a little bit of a regulatory lag 129 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:35,920 there. So our expectation is that the new rates would become effective 130 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:38,720 sometime in quarter two of 2027. Next slide. So this is going to be the 131 00:12:37,519 --> 00:12:41,839 answer slide. I'm going to go ahead and give you the the overall answer here and 132 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:45,680 then we'll kind of go back and dig into some of the details for you. Um and and 133 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:51,279 Nathan's already alluded to part of this. It's a $1.4 million increase that 134 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:56,720 we're requesting. Um which represents a 19% increase on just the base rate 135 00:12:54,320 --> 00:13:01,440 portion of the bill. And so that's the service charge and the energy charge. 136 00:12:59,279 --> 00:13:06,000 when we include the purchase power cost adjustment, the PPCA 137 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:10,639 that changes from time to time and it's is designed to recover all of our 138 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:15,440 purchase power costs, then it represents a 3 and a half% overall increase in 139 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:18,959 total rate revenue. And so that number is important because that's what your 140 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:24,160 customers are going to feel. Um they're paying both the base and the PPCA. So um 141 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:27,360 from a billing perspective, it's going to look like a three and a half% 142 00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:32,320 increase. uh focusing on the bar chart on the 143 00:13:29,839 --> 00:13:37,120 lower left down there, we are recommending that that overall three and 144 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:41,040 a half percent increase um is spread among the classes differently. However, 145 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:45,440 and as we'll get to in a few minutes, the cost of service results support 146 00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:49,360 this. And so we're recommending an increase on outdoor lighting and street 147 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:54,720 lighting of 10%. Commercial class is 7.2%, 2% the 148 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:58,320 residential 3.3% and the what I've got labeled here is industrial is your light 149 00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:03,360 and power rate it's your largest users only a 1% increase so everybody would be 150 00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:07,360 participating in the increase but at different levels under our 151 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:11,440 recommendation the pie chart on the right hand side um 152 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,199 kind of shows the major factors that are driving the overall $ 1.4 $4 million 153 00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:18,959 increase that we're requesting from the commission. And uh this is where I'm 154 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,800 going to turn it over to Tara. She's going to walk you through these items a 155 00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:28,720 little bit and then go through revenue requirements and I'll return to talk 156 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:34,079 about cost of service and rate design. >> All right. Thanks Jake. Um as you can 157 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:38,079 see on the pie chart, several items make up the increase. I'll start with rate 158 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:42,720 based adjustments. So we've made some rate based adjust 159 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:47,680 adjustments for plan and service that is going into service um what we call 160 00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:52,160 during the adjustment period which is after the test year but before rates go 161 00:14:50,079 --> 00:14:55,519 into effect um that would be for additions and 162 00:14:53,839 --> 00:14:59,040 retirements. There would also be associated 163 00:14:57,199 --> 00:15:04,079 depreciation expense for those adjustments. 164 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:08,720 And then if you look over to the light blue, there are wages and salaries 165 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:15,120 adjustments of 15%. Those are pre-approved adjustments that the 166 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:19,120 council has already approved along with the pensions and benefits that go along 167 00:15:17,199 --> 00:15:22,880 with those increases in salaries and wages. 168 00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:27,279 Also, we have a rate case expense adjustment, which is an amortization of 169 00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:32,000 the rate case expenses for this rate case, 170 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:38,160 and an OPED adjustment, which is an adjustment for a credit to an expense 171 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:41,480 account that is a non-cash credit and that is non-recurring. 172 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,800 Next slide, please. 173 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:58,880 Now I'm going to walk through revenue requirements a little bit. Um 174 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:04,240 the details of what I showed you on the previous uh previous slide are here. So 175 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:10,320 starting with our revenue requirements, those adjustments of distribution, O 176 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:14,720 andM expenses, customer accounts, and administrative in general, those are the 177 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:19,199 adjustments that we just talked about related to increases in salaries and 178 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:23,839 wages and benefits. The depreciation adjustment on line six, 179 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:30,160 that relates to the plan and service adjustments for total operating expense 180 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:34,399 adjustments of about 1.474 million. 181 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:39,519 And that gives us total operating expenses in the test year of 8.7 182 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:43,519 million. When you add to that the return on your rate base, which includes your 183 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:48,880 planted service adjustments, your revenue requirement is 9.9 million. Then 184 00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:54,160 we decrease that for the non- rate revenues of 950,000. Those are revenues 185 00:16:52,000 --> 00:17:00,560 that come in from other sources besides base rates to give us a total revenue 186 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:04,880 requirement of 8.9 million. And that's the amount that you need to collect from 187 00:17:02,079 --> 00:17:09,600 your customers in total. Your present base revenues that you're receiving now 188 00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:14,240 are 7.5 million. So the difference between the amount that you need and the 189 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:19,120 present revenues is the 1.4 million that we talked about. And when you divide 190 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:23,839 that by the current total revenues, which includes your purchase cost 191 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:30,880 adjustment, that's a 3.5% increase effectively on the bill. 192 00:17:27,360 --> 00:17:30,880 Next slide, please. 193 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:38,880 So as we discussed those adjustments, those adjustments are for known and 194 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:43,360 measurable changes to test year financials. 195 00:17:40,559 --> 00:17:49,679 The revenues reflect a full year of the new retail rates. So the test year of 25 196 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:55,919 um had a month of old rates. We had to normalize that to get to um actual 197 00:17:53,440 --> 00:18:00,160 revenues using new rates. And then the operating adjustments that we just 198 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:04,960 talked about of the wages and salaries, rate case expenses and other 199 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:10,240 post-employment benefit expense um along with rate base adjustments for 200 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:14,960 new plan and service make up all of the adjustments to the test year that result 201 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:18,600 in our increase. Next slide please. 202 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:26,320 So this is just a little more detail on rate base and rate of return. The plan 203 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:33,039 and service adjustment was about 2.2 million. Um there's a small on and m 204 00:18:29,679 --> 00:18:37,760 adjustment in working capital and the working capital allowances are the 205 00:18:35,039 --> 00:18:44,000 dollars that you need to cover your expenses until your revenues come in. 206 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:48,400 And then we also include an average balance for materials and supplies and 207 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:54,480 for prepayments to get to your gross rate base of about 52 million. 208 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:59,919 And we have deductions for accumulated depreciation to go with the plan and 209 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:05,360 service increases and also a deduction for cons customer deposits. And that 210 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:11,600 gives you your net rate base of 25 million which is multiplied by the rate 211 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:15,919 of return based off of 30-year Treasury bond forecasts 212 00:19:13,679 --> 00:19:21,880 to give you the return on rate base of 1.2 million that you saw on the revenue 213 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,880 requirement slides. 214 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:29,880 And I think that covers the adjustments. I'll turn it back over to Jake. 215 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:37,039 » Okay. Yes. Thanks, Tara. I'll pause there. Any questions on what she just 216 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:40,440 walked through. A lot of lot of information there. 217 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:49,200 Okay, we will move ahead. So, the next step of the study is again the cost of 218 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:54,720 service. And this picture just kind of helps give an overview of the process 219 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:59,520 itself. Um, again, all of the costs that we book in our accounting system are 220 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:03,440 incurred at the total level. You know, if we roll a truck out and they work on 221 00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:06,640 a line, we don't we don't split those costs between, well, we were helping out 222 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:11,520 residential customers or we were helping out light and power customers for part 223 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:15,280 of the time. Um, and so it's a three-step process to take that and get 224 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:19,039 it down to what does it cost to serve each of those types of customers? And 225 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:24,080 step one is called the functionalization step. Um and that just takes the dollars 226 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:28,559 and and says okay well which function are they you know are those expenses um 227 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:32,559 supporting? Is it the production function actually generating electricity 228 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:37,440 which we don't do. U we don't own production resources. We buy purchase 229 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:42,000 power through contracts. Um is it transmission? Is it distribution? So in 230 00:20:39,919 --> 00:20:45,840 this instance um it's mainly distribution related costs that we're 231 00:20:43,679 --> 00:20:49,120 talking about. And so the functionalization step is actually 232 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:53,840 pretty straightforward um given Hagerstown's books. The classification 233 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:57,360 step is the next step and that says well what if we split that bucket of dollars 234 00:20:55,679 --> 00:21:03,039 and let's just focus on the distribution function into the underlying activity 235 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:08,400 that drives the cost and so is it having a customer and the best example of that 236 00:21:05,919 --> 00:21:12,799 is is meter expenses. uh as soon as somebody wants to connect to the system, 237 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:17,440 we have to hang a service drop, hang a meter and incur the cost of owning and 238 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:21,520 operating that equipment. And so that is a customer related type of function and 239 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:27,520 therefore we classify those dollars under the customer bucket. Uh there's 240 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:32,320 also demand and energy buckets. Energy is the total amount of electricity over 241 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:36,080 a given time period. So let's say over a month, you know, it's measured in 242 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:40,320 kilowatt hours. And you'll see that the distribution function in the industry 243 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:46,400 the standard is that there is really no energy classification. Um but there is 244 00:21:43,919 --> 00:21:52,159 demand and what demand is is the maximum amount of um you know demand placed on 245 00:21:49,679 --> 00:21:56,159 the system at any given moment in time. And so it's usually a one hour type of a 246 00:21:54,559 --> 00:22:00,640 value. And we do have to size our distribution 247 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:04,559 system. We have to invest in it based on demand. And so that's why there's a 248 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:08,720 split between customer and demand. And then we can take those classified pools 249 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:14,799 of dollars and we can allocate it to each of our customer classes based on 250 00:22:11,679 --> 00:22:20,480 demands and customers and energy. Um, and then that's how we get kind of the 251 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:26,080 the answer that's on the next slide which is the revenue sufficiency of 252 00:22:23,679 --> 00:22:30,880 present rates for each of our classes. And now this part there is no purchase 253 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:33,600 power cost adjustment in here. Um, you may have caught on on the revenue 254 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,480 requirements. We didn't show any purchase power costs there either 255 00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:40,880 because all of those dollars are recovered through that PPCA. So we're 256 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:46,240 only talking about non purchase power costs here. And so what this tells us is 257 00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:52,799 that the um for instance the residential class at 85.3% 258 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:58,240 the present rates uh recover only 85% of the um allocated cost of that class 259 00:22:56,559 --> 00:23:03,120 whereas the industrial which again is your light and power group is 104%. 260 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:08,400 And so that means that that group is currently earning over their cost to 261 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:12,320 serve under present rates. And if you recall back at the beginning, I had that 262 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:17,679 slide where we had residential at close to that 3.5% overall increase. 263 00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:21,440 Industrial was only 1% and the two lighting classes were at 10%. And you 264 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:24,400 can see there the cost of service shows that on our street lights and our 265 00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:28,480 outdoor lighting, we're not even making up half of the cost through the rates. 266 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,840 Uh, so that's why I'm recommending a more aggressive increase on the two 267 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:36,080 lighting classes, but keep in mind they're also very small. We're talking 268 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:42,799 about less than a million dollar out of four $40 million of the revenue come 269 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:48,320 from those two classes as well. Okay, next slide. 270 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:52,240 So with that information, um, here is what we're recommending in terms of rate 271 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:57,120 design. And so for the residential class, uh, I'm making the recommendation 272 00:23:54,799 --> 00:24:02,960 of increasing the customer charge from $5, which is what it is right now, to 273 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:08,320 $6.30. That's a $130 on that charge increase. The energy charge would go 274 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:13,279 from just under two cents to basically 2.2 cents. No change in the PPCA. I show 275 00:24:11,919 --> 00:24:17,360 that on this slide just to give us an idea of overall impact for our 276 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:22,880 customers. Um, and you can see there at the bottom bills at 500, 1,000, and 1500 277 00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:27,600 kilowatt hours. Uh, as as Nathan indicated in the introduction, for a 278 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:35,200 1,00 kilwatt hour customer, which is our our average for our residential class, 279 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:38,880 it's a $49 increase uh in a month, which is 3.3%. That's right at that level that 280 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:43,919 we're designing for the whole residential class to experience. 281 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:48,960 And on the next slide, we show a comparison of the present rate, the 282 00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:54,320 proposed rate, and then what your customers would pay under PTOIC Edison's 283 00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:58,320 current rates. In this slide, we do bring in the purchase power cost 284 00:24:55,919 --> 00:25:02,640 adjustment at the 10-cent level, so that it's an applesto apples comparison. And 285 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:07,120 we have all the various Edison writers built into this as well. And so what 286 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:12,640 this shows you that is that even after our modest 3.3% rate increase um on the 287 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:21,720 residential bills, we're somewhere between 35 and 40% lower than the same 288 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:21,720 customer usage on PTOIC Edison's rates. 289 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:26,120 Okay. 290 00:25:26,159 --> 00:25:31,919 And then for the the the non-residential rate classes, we have the design here. I 291 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:36,320 believe these slides have been shared with you. If not, we're happy to have 292 00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:40,320 one shared with you. Um, and you can see an increase in the customer charges in 293 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:44,960 both the the general and commercial service and in the light and power 294 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:51,120 service. Um, increases to the demand charges and increases to the energy 295 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:55,440 charges for u for both. 296 00:25:53,279 --> 00:25:59,279 And so for a for an average, if you will, general and commercial service in 297 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:05,279 the the box in the lower right, that's at 6KW of demand and 2,000 kilowatt 298 00:26:01,919 --> 00:26:09,279 hours. The bill would go up $7.76, which is 3.1%. 299 00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:16,000 And for the light and power, the average bill is 200 kilowatts and 83,000 kilwatt 300 00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:23,799 hours, and it's about a $90 increase on a $9,000 bill. So, um, pretty low, 9/10 301 00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:23,799 of a percent. 302 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:32,400 And so that's a very high level overview of the case we intend to file and what 303 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:38,520 our what our recommendations are. Um yes. So any any questions or comments at 304 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,520 this time? 305 00:26:40,799 --> 00:26:48,720 » Any questions? Council, >> I have I have a question about the 306 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:52,720 inclusion of the retirements. Move your voice. 307 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:56,640 » Sorry. I have a question about the inclusion of the retirements in the rate 308 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,520 base. Can um someone explain 309 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,520 » Okay. >> Why 310 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:09,720 the inclusion of the retirements and the rate base? 311 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,720 Um 312 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:18,720 I'm not exactly Nathan, can we go back to the revenue requirement? uh or maybe 313 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:21,880 to the rate based slide so we can kind of discuss 314 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:32,840 » so I can kind of understand >> slide seven. 315 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,840 » Yeah, I think it's six or seven. 316 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:44,799 » Okay. And I need to get on my screen because I can't see it either. 317 00:27:42,159 --> 00:27:49,520 » All right. So, >> I'm looking at the 318 00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:54,799 » slide. Okay, I was thinking slide eight. Um, so are you asking about the OPED 319 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:59,440 expense credit removal? >> I'm just trying to understand why we're 320 00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:06,960 including the retirement benefits. >> Um, it's the on slide seven um under 321 00:28:04,399 --> 00:28:11,760 rate base where we have inclusion of new plant service test year, inclusion of 322 00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:15,760 retirements and revised return on rate base. I believe. 323 00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:20,640 » Oh, those retirements. Okay. Yes. So, th those retirements refer to plan and 324 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:24,640 service that's being retired. So, when you have additions to plan and service, 325 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:28,799 you also have retirements because you're replacing plant 326 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,799 » and service. So, those are replacements. So, it's not employee retirements, it's 327 00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:34,720 plant retirements. >> Yeah. 328 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:37,760 » Okay. Thank you for that clarification. That was what I was asking. So, it's 329 00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:40,000 equipment retirement. >> Yes. 330 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,799 » Got it. >> Yes. 331 00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:49,120 Thank you. No, >> you're welcome. 332 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:56,080 » I don't have a question. It's more of a statement, but there was and I was 333 00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:02,760 I think I was pleased to read it or believed maybe is a better word in 334 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,760 the 335 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:13,600 uh the presentation. Uh on slide four it says represents a 336 00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:20,240 19% increase in base rate revenue. So I don't know and again you know when 337 00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:25,440 information was was was transcribed you know more traditionally in in the 338 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:30,880 newspaper distribution um on these things and I I I always try 339 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:37,440 and stay away from percentages cuz as a customer I don't know what that means to 340 00:29:32,159 --> 00:29:43,520 me right but when I read in the memo um where is the sentence a cost of 341 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:49,360 service study was performed based on FY25 audited financials and concluded 342 00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:54,960 that an additional 19 19% increase on the current operating rates. So when I 343 00:29:51,679 --> 00:30:00,640 read that I thought oh you know we're talking about a 4 and a.5% rate increase 344 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:06,240 in FY25 at one little one and a half and then a 19% and then it equated to like 345 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:10,399 1.4. It didn't make sense to me but you're talking about a 19% increase in 346 00:30:08,159 --> 00:30:14,080 the in the base rate revenue. other words, that's the money it's generating. 347 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,840 That's not the rate or percent rate increase people are going to see. The 348 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:22,559 actual number is about three and a half percent or to the average customer is 349 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,840 about four bucks a month, >> right? 350 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:29,840 » So, I just when people see that or hear us talking about it, I just think that 351 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:35,360 that's the critical number and I got a little bit lost between 352 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:38,559 » the two documents on that um on on what that is. And I I just I don't I don't 353 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:43,919 want the public to get lost in in that document. Um 354 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:48,799 the important stuff though in the staff document is why and and you know while 355 00:30:47,039 --> 00:30:53,120 we have this presentation that tells us what things are going up, this 356 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:59,840 presentation doesn't tell the public really why. Um as and no offense to the 357 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:03,919 presentation that that's really not its point, but the staff memo does a pretty 358 00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:08,640 good job of pointing out these two things. one is the why it's going up. 359 00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:14,640 Meaning, you know, you're talking about uh a a study and uh analysis and 360 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:22,159 management of more than a thousand telephone poles that cost money to to uh 361 00:31:18,399 --> 00:31:27,760 replace uh to relocate um and to reconnect all the different providers 362 00:31:23,919 --> 00:31:32,640 and our system on it. Uh the other uh item that you talked about is uh 363 00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:37,840 vegetation removal. every power system across the land has has ramped that up 364 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:43,840 in recent years because of the weather related effects and the fact that that 365 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:50,480 and I'm just going to say it that that property isn't attended as it may have 366 00:31:47,679 --> 00:31:54,559 been more readily in the past as it applies to allowing vegetation in and 367 00:31:53,120 --> 00:32:00,399 around properties and homes and commercial businesses etc to grow up in 368 00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:05,840 the utility rightway where these utilities are most impacted by weather 369 00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:11,440 related events. Um the other thing that the memo says is okay well well how are 370 00:32:08,399 --> 00:32:16,159 other ways than than revenue um rate increases or or how how are 371 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:22,480 other ways other than rate increases going to be generated or going to 372 00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:27,200 generate revenue and I was um uh it was good to read how the one development in 373 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:32,559 the city's you know uh uh electric uh service 374 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:35,120 boundary uh is going to positively benefit 375 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:40,640 And I just think that as council we need to hone in on that particular comment 376 00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:45,279 because there's one neighborhood that gets developed that that brings in about 377 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:52,799 $140 $150,000 worth of new revenue to the system because they're within our uh 378 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:56,240 um uh electric utility distribution boundaries which are different than the 379 00:32:54,480 --> 00:33:02,320 cities. And I just think that if that speaks to uh our 380 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:06,799 uh um necessity to focus on redevelopment of both vacant areas and 381 00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:13,120 and underutilized properties that are in the city um that clearly have an impact 382 00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:18,720 on um uh revenue, you know, over time in in in 383 00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:22,000 uh managing that system. So, I thought that the bullet points in there were 384 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:27,679 were really good in in telling the public the why your bill is going to go 385 00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:33,039 up about four bucks a month, you know, possibly, you know, starting, you know, 386 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:36,440 sometime in 2027. >> Appreciate that. 387 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:46,640 » Anybody else >> for this um rate? Um, are you going to 388 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:49,519 continue to work with the Office of People's Council? 389 00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:52,080 » No. >> Absolutely. 390 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:57,200 » You have to. Okay. For the public, that's a uh um they work on behalf of 391 00:33:55,360 --> 00:34:01,519 Maryland's residential customers to advocate for utility performance at the 392 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:08,200 lowest reasonable cost consistent with the state environmental economic 393 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,200 policies. Thank you for that footnote. 394 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:17,119 So the ask from staff is is that you know we would like to go ahead and 395 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:24,159 submit this case in September and we just um kind of need a a nod from from 396 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:27,679 uh from from the elected body uh to go ahead and uh file the rate case. 397 00:34:26,240 --> 00:34:31,760 » Everybody good with that? >> I'm in favor. 398 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:35,159 » Okay, got it. >> Thank you very much. 399 00:34:35,919 --> 00:34:39,200 » Thank you, Jake. Thank you, Terara. >> Yes. 400 00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:41,440 » Thank you. >> Thank you, everyone. 401 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,919 » Have a great evening. >> You, too. 402 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,919 » You, too. 403 00:34:47,919 --> 00:34:54,079 » All right. Next up, we have uh Mr. Jim Bender with our next four items. And 404 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:58,280 first up is the Route 40 pedestrian safety action plan update. 405 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:07,280 » So, good afternoon. um made a presentation to council back in February 406 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:11,440 um about plans that state highway is working on to make safety improvements 407 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:16,320 along the route 44 corridor and that that's from Interstate 70 in the east 408 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:22,640 the whole way out to Garland Boulevard in the west and uh there are a number of 409 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:28,480 good things I think in that in their conceptual plans to improve safety make 410 00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:32,560 crosswalk safer um improve signage that sort of stuff but the One thing that I 411 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:37,280 made council aware of at that time is the concept calls for the removal of 412 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:41,920 parking on one side of Franklin Street and one side of Washington Street. Now I 413 00:35:39,839 --> 00:35:45,760 I do have an error in the memo. I went back and looked today and I had 414 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:50,400 misinterpreted one of the details um that they had on the concept plan. I was 415 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,920 thinking that the on both of those streets they were 416 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:58,400 taking the parking off the north side of the street. They are taking the the 417 00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:01,440 parking off the north side of Franklin Street. on Washington Street, they want 418 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:05,920 to take it off the south side. So that would be the courthouse side. Um, you 419 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:09,599 know, and on the on Franklin Street, it's the post office side is the best 420 00:36:07,839 --> 00:36:14,800 way to think of it. But they're still removing one lane of on street parking 421 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:20,640 on both of those streets. It ends up being approximately 350 parking spaces 422 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:23,359 that would be lost uh for the full length of the city to do that. 423 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:27,599 » Do you know how many of those spaces are metered? 424 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:33,440 » Um, there are n I don't know the number. There are 19 19 blocks in the study 425 00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:37,839 area. I think seven of them have meters. Seven of those blocks. I can get you a 426 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:41,760 count on how many of those spaces are. >> How many spaces did you say? 427 00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:46,480 » About 350 total. >> Somewhere around 100 428 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:49,680 » probably something like that. Um, the reason I'm here today, I don't 429 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:53,520 necessarily have any new information, but I wanted to make the council aware 430 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:59,760 that State Highway is holding a publicformational meeting next Tuesday 431 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:05,119 at Eastern Elementary from 5 to 7:00 p.m. They are not going to be making a 432 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:10,160 presentation, but they're going to have the the latest concept plans or boards 433 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:14,640 there, and they'll accept comment or feedback uh from the public at that 434 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:19,119 meeting. I just wanted to make sure that the council was aware and that anyone 435 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:23,520 watching the the meeting today is there because I I really feel that this is an 436 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:29,440 important issue and they are still just at the conceptual stage. They haven't 437 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:35,520 moved into actual real design yet and now would be the time to voice our 438 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:38,560 concerns again about the potential loss of parking 439 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:41,760 » and revenue. >> Yeah. 440 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:49,760 » Spaces. So I I I sat on a call on this subject 441 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:53,680 with state folks last week was it I guess 442 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:58,640 » and ask a number of questions which there were no answers for. Um, one, I 443 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:04,160 think it's odd that you're having a meeting out on eastern uh, you know, and 444 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:09,520 and not library downtown where where everybody that lives and utilizes the 445 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:13,359 spaces is, but but that's So, the one question I had was, you know, how many 446 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:17,599 metered spaces is it going to be impacting the city revenue-wise? 447 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:22,720 Um, uh, the second question was who's going 448 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:28,160 to maintain it? meaning when the snow comes down, you know, the expectation of 449 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:31,119 who's going to plow it and for it to be plowed and, you know, who's not, you 450 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:36,560 know, who's going to and then the third was who's going to police it. Um, then 451 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:40,720 there again, there were no answers for any of these questions. The fourth was 452 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:47,200 there seems to be this notion that there's this run on bicycles uh out 453 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:51,839 there you know uh in in uh commerce you know and the reality is and I said this 454 00:38:50,320 --> 00:39:00,640 reality is we're seeing everybody you know uh uh migrate to the eve vehicle 455 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:06,880 system skateboard scooter uh uh bicycle uh you know uh you know whatever device 456 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:12,720 and and you know will these bike lanes uh be uh allowed for use of electronic 457 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:17,839 vehicles. And there was no answer for that. And then who polices that, you 458 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:20,880 know, in terms of of that use? And the other thing I pointed out is, you know, 459 00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:25,040 a number of our side streets, we oftent times have folks that that, you know, 460 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:31,200 will park and put the the four-ways on in the bike lanes um for extended 461 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:35,680 periods of time. You know, who's going to monitor and police that? who's going 462 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:38,960 to be expected to tow vehicles that end up saying, you know what, uh, it's the 463 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:43,680 dead of winter, there's nothing available. I'm going to park right here. 464 00:39:41,599 --> 00:39:47,200 Um, you know, because nobody's riding a bike, you know, in zero degree weather. 465 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:53,200 Those types of things. And I think it was just and and I think the last thing 466 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:59,040 that's important to note is most people hearing about this 467 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:03,760 should get an idea of of where specifically it's talking about. 468 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,440 And I I guess for me, I went into the meeting thinking it was a couple blocks 469 00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:11,200 downtown, you know, around the square. >> Yeah. 470 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:16,079 » And it's from McDonald's on the east side of town, you know, to Walmart on 471 00:40:13,599 --> 00:40:20,160 the west side of town. And I just I'm trying to like imagine in my head, I 472 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:23,839 mean, are are we back in '92 and, you know, and and the tourup pond's coming 473 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,160 through town and, you know, we're having bicycles every day. It just it was just 474 00:40:26,079 --> 00:40:33,280 odd to me that it it stretched the entire length of of downtown. And then 475 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:38,000 the last thing, one of the other things I pointed out was there was this notion 476 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:42,800 I think among folks in in that discussion from the state side that they 477 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:48,079 drive through downtown on these two streets or, you know, they Google map 478 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:51,920 and go, "Oh, there's plenty of parking. Look at all these parking lots." And I'm 479 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:58,000 like, that's that's a misconception because 90% of those parking lots are 480 00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:02,160 owned by private property owners, you know, that are for the use of of those 481 00:40:59,839 --> 00:41:05,920 private entities, you know, and then and I I didn't get into the reminder that, 482 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,560 you know, the state has made it very clear uh they have no interest in 483 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:15,760 helping out for parking decks uh but have that expectation that local 484 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:20,240 government provides it. Uh and and you know, we I think that we very 485 00:41:17,359 --> 00:41:26,000 briefly touched on the notion that uh you know, parking decks are are $20,000 486 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:30,319 to $40,000 a spot and surface parking lot uh parking spaces are 1 to 3,000 487 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:36,560 bucks a spot. So, you know, the price point for somebody to to pay for that 488 00:41:33,359 --> 00:41:42,560 pass is is well different than the price point for somebody to uh to even uh you 489 00:41:40,240 --> 00:41:46,000 know, pay for metering or uh or a private lot surface lot surface lot 490 00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:52,160 that's available. >> So, well, after we sent our letter of 491 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:57,760 concern in the spring, um State Highway did conduct a parking utilization study. 492 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:02,720 um they came through and over the course of a couple weeks they looked at actual 493 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:07,760 parking usage and parking demand in downtown and there's a copy attached to 494 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:13,760 the memo. Um it's a summary of what they found um when they did that parking 495 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:21,200 utilization study. And basically the point that they are making is that 496 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:25,599 there if you look at available on street parking and public parking in the city, 497 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:30,079 especially in the downtown, there's a surplus of spaces. 498 00:42:27,839 --> 00:42:34,960 um between the the parking decks not really being heavily utilized, the 499 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:40,160 central parking lot not not being parked at capacity. So part of their I guess 500 00:42:37,599 --> 00:42:44,800 their conclusion is that there are enough spaces, it's just not, you know, 501 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:48,720 it's not just the on street spaces, there are other places people can park 502 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:53,359 downtown. A couple issues with that one is um yes, 503 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:57,119 you could park in the central lot, but you're going to pay to do that or any of 504 00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,880 the parking decks. And some of these people, a lot of these people aren't 505 00:42:58,319 --> 00:43:07,599 paying to park on the street right now. The other argument is that those public 506 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:12,160 parking lots or decks are clustered here in the downtown. So if you live, let's 507 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:16,720 say, out in the 400 block of West Franklin Street, which is just past 508 00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:20,400 Burhands heading up to High Street, >> there's a lot of on street parking out 509 00:43:18,319 --> 00:43:24,720 there by residents. and they're I measured they're a quarter mile away 510 00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:29,920 from the closest public lot and about a half a mile away from the closest 511 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:34,720 parking deck. Um you know they also say that you know those people if we take 512 00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:39,760 parking off of one side of Route 40 the people can park on the other side of it. 513 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:44,960 There are issues with that. There are eight or nine reserved handicap spaces 514 00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:49,119 along those streets that those residents went through the process and they have a 515 00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:53,359 dedicated spot in front of their house because they have a disability and now 516 00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:57,760 those are going to go away. It's not so easy to relocate them. Um 517 00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:02,880 » well the other thing that I explained and now now that you mentioned it on the 518 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:06,400 like I tried to explain how the west side of town functions differently than 519 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:10,400 the east side of towns. that applies to downtown parking. And I tried to say, 520 00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:16,319 listen, if you're going to time lights so that the average person coming in 521 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:22,000 through town can start at like 28 m hour and then get through Burhans Boulevard 522 00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:25,599 and then realize they're heading out. You've never obviously been on 523 00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:29,280 Wakefield, which doesn't have lights, and tried to cross those two 524 00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:35,520 intersections that don't have great line of sight, or be a pedestrian at that 525 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:41,760 location. If you take that parking away, those sort of like outer rim 526 00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:46,560 crossblock areas, you're only going to exponentially increase the speed at 527 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:54,240 which people leave uh the city uh heading westbound. 528 00:44:51,280 --> 00:45:01,280 » So, the public meeting is next Tuesday. Um, on Thursday is the Secretary of 529 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:04,880 Transportation's tour when they come to all the different counties. Every year 530 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:09,280 they go on a tour and they get to meet with local elected officials and and 531 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:13,040 government staff to talk about transportation issues. And this is 532 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:19,119 certainly one of the things that we will be preparing a slide and going to talk 533 00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:25,280 about or speak to the secretary about this. Um, so there's an opportunity in 534 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:30,240 this coming week to definitely make our voices heard, um, and make them 535 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:34,000 aware that we do have concerns. >> We since we have council next week, can 536 00:45:32,240 --> 00:45:39,280 we have some sort of city representation at the meeting at Eastern Elementary? 537 00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:43,520 » We can. I mean, I know uh, Bill from my staff's going to be there. I don't know 538 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:47,599 who's available from the council to uh, to attend. It would be, in my opinion, 539 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,920 it would be good if someone, you know, one of the elected officials could be 540 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,400 there. >> And if it's more than three, we have to 541 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:57,119 » Well, we have a meeting. >> Yeah, they're doing it. 542 00:45:55,359 --> 00:46:01,000 » They're doing it during >> Tuesday 5 to 7. 543 00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:09,839 » Question, Jim. Um, when uh you said next Thursday, who's coming? 544 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:14,240 » Secretary of Transportation or one of their representatives? 545 00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:19,599 » They need to visit these streets. They need to physically 546 00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:24,000 come downtown on Franklin and Washington and see for themselves because I get it. 547 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:27,920 You can stand behind a computer and you can run the numbers and you can run the 548 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:32,880 analysis, but actually seeing how this would impact these streets and our 549 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:37,280 residents and our businesses and our individuals with, you know, handicap 550 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:40,000 accessible, they need to physically see this. 551 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:43,760 » Yeah. And you know, when I realized today that 552 00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:48,079 they were talking about the south side of Washington Street, I immediately 553 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:52,720 thought of the county courthouse because there's reserve parking for judges and 554 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:56,079 the sheriff's department and whatnot that would get wiped out 555 00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:59,280 » by doing that. >> So, I think there's there are a number 556 00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:03,200 of concerns. >> And then what happens to the bumpouts? I 557 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:08,640 mean there there there's a dozen bumpouts right along both of those 558 00:47:05,839 --> 00:47:15,520 corridors on either side of the street that that that you know they paid 559 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:20,880 » millions of dollars uh in that total streetscape 560 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:23,839 » improvement 10 you know 1015 years ago they would have to go in order to 561 00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,359 accommodate >> the the bike lane 562 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:31,599 » they would and the the ironic thing is those bumpouts are put in to improve 563 00:47:29,119 --> 00:47:37,119 safety by making the crosswalk shorter make it easier for pedestrians to get 564 00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:41,119 across the street. And now we're, you know, they want to promote safety 565 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:45,359 for bicyclists and I I understand that, but you're right. They're they're kind 566 00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:47,680 of destroying what they've worked so hard to create. 567 00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:51,040 » How does it affect street flow for water? 568 00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:54,480 » Yeah, it's there any number of issues and I've asked that you you don't get 569 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:58,720 answers to your questions. I haven't gotten answers to the pumpout question. 570 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:07,440 I think I can answer one of your questions. Um, there is an agreement 571 00:48:04,319 --> 00:48:11,119 between the city and the state, I think from 1956, don't hold me to that, but 572 00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:15,440 it's something from the 50s, in which the city is responsible for the 573 00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:19,200 maintenance of Franklin, Washington from Cleveland Avenue to Nottingham, 574 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:24,240 including street sweeping and snow plowing. So, that portion of it would be 575 00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:28,640 still our responsibility. The traffic signals on both those drives are still 576 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:33,760 owned by the state, but we maintain them. They pay us a fee to help maintain 577 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:38,720 those those traffic signals. So, there's an agreement that we do some of it and 578 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:43,280 they do parts of it um to answer your question. So, my guess is we would still 579 00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:46,079 be responsible for street sweeping and snow plowing and all that from that 580 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:49,440 agreement >> because there would be a physical 581 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,400 barrier between the road and the bike lane. Then they didn't they mention that 582 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,559 » it's a painted >> Yeah, 583 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,480 » it's a painted strip. Yeah, it's like a gore. 584 00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:59,520 » At the meeting at the meeting, they said there was going they were going to 585 00:48:57,599 --> 00:49:01,839 install a physical barrier between the sidewalk and street and the bike lane 586 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,160 section. >> They 587 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:10,400 » No, I'm sorry. No, there'll be a physical barrier between the travel lane 588 00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:13,040 of the vehicles and the bike lane. They were going to put a physical barrier in 589 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,800 along that street. >> That's not what the concept So you would 590 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,359 have to go in and like plow the bike lane and throw it all on the sidewalks. 591 00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,240 No, >> right. 592 00:49:19,839 --> 00:49:23,760 » No, >> but I mean that's be wide enough if we 593 00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,520 could put a plow in there. >> Exactly. 594 00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,720 » Well, you wouldn't throw it on the sidewalks e anyway. 595 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,559 » We try not to, >> but I'm saying you'd have no choice at 596 00:49:30,079 --> 00:49:34,240 that point. >> Well, in the streets that have a bike 597 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:39,280 lane on it now, say Locust Street where they took parking off one or we did, the 598 00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:44,000 city did. Um, we plow into that bike lane. We plowed away from the cars. And 599 00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:48,800 so I would imagine on Franklin Washer what would happen is instead of plowing 600 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:52,960 left and right they even you all right we would plow all to the bike length 601 00:49:51,359 --> 00:49:56,559 because if you have that much snow not that many people are going to be riding 602 00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:59,839 a bike. Now if there's a physical barrier that's 603 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:03,280 going to be an issue >> that's because we'll still just plow 604 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:07,839 over it but we'll have to make sure we don't plow into it. 605 00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:11,119 » Yeah. Well, it'll be interesting to see what concepts they show on Tuesday night 606 00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:15,520 because >> that's that is not the information that 607 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:18,079 they have on the exhibits that I had seen. 608 00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:21,200 » So, a painted barrier. >> Yeah. 609 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:25,119 » Basically, as far as going out to >> the Garlic Grow, there's no sidewalks 610 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:28,319 that exist out that far. And so, we've been with them, I don't know, one last 611 00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:32,400 winter was >> on one of the colder days. Uh, taking a 612 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,800 look at that where the where the sidewalks will go and that sort of 613 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:39,599 thing. So, >> yeah. I mean, there are there are good 614 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:42,640 things in the plan, uh, in my opinion, and that's one of them because I commute 615 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:46,640 that way >> every day. I see people walking along 616 00:50:45,119 --> 00:50:51,760 Franklin Street heading out toward Walmart, and it's dangerous because they 617 00:50:49,359 --> 00:50:55,839 don't have a sidewalk. They're walking on the shoulder of the road. They're 618 00:50:53,119 --> 00:51:00,400 trying to cross where the ramps go off onto 81. You know, they're crossing in 619 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:04,480 front of those. So, you've got all these conflicts. And I think if they had a 620 00:51:01,839 --> 00:51:07,680 dedicated a dedicated lane out there is a good thing and that's what they're 621 00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:13,599 conceptually that's what they're trying to do. It's it's what's happening in 622 00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:18,720 downtown that I think is the is is my concern. 623 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:25,240 » So all the concerns that we shared with them they responded with well the 624 00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:25,240 analysis shows otherwise. 625 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:32,000 » The concerns on parking they're the way they summarized it. I mean, in a 626 00:51:30,240 --> 00:51:34,960 nutshell, they say there are enough parking spaces around 627 00:51:33,599 --> 00:51:38,240 » to make up for what you're going to lose, 628 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:42,000 » but there are a lot of >> I got the same impression from that 629 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:46,240 discussion that I got from this one. Y >> that everybody but council or everybody 630 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:50,160 but me uh supported when they wanted to change these things here going left 631 00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,920 where they were like, we'll just tell them it's the city's idea and you the 632 00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:58,559 city can can have it after. Like I just got the feeling that there it was like, 633 00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:00,880 "Hey, just let you know we're going to do this." 634 00:52:00,319 --> 00:52:04,880 » I remember, >> you know, and I and that and I said 635 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:07,839 during that discussion, I said, "Listen, you can do it, but it isn't going to be 636 00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:10,559 like last time. We're not going to take the wrap for this being our idea, 637 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,520 » right? >> You know, this is your idea, right?" 638 00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:22,160 » I also see a engineer for DOT for the next three days. So, talk to him as 639 00:52:20,079 --> 00:52:29,200 well. He already knows about it. >> Yeah. and the district engineer uh Linda 640 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:33,119 Poffenberger is aware. Um she has she has not 641 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:38,319 formally commented on this yet. I've had some informal discussions with her and 642 00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:43,119 she understands our concerns. Um so I think I think she's waiting until 643 00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:48,800 thisformational meeting and see what feedback comes out of that. So 644 00:52:46,319 --> 00:52:52,640 » Britney's also and I think Jill has as well sent out a communication to the 645 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:57,440 downtown businesses to make sure they're aware and to make an effort to go out 646 00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:02,640 there to the public hear to the public meeting. 647 00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:06,960 » The road shows more for government people. 648 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:11,200 » Okay. Next up is uh acceptance of funding for 649 00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:18,240 storm drainage system. >> Right. So, um, working with our federal 650 00:53:15,359 --> 00:53:24,000 lobbyist, uh, the Ferguson Group, last year, we, uh, we were able to to secure 651 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:29,440 an earmark through Congresswoman Delane's office, um, for storm drainage 652 00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:36,720 improvements here in Edgartown. And it was a a $1 million earmark. 653 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:41,440 And we didn't specifically say what we were going to use that money for at that 654 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:45,520 point, but one of the one of the main things that we were thinking we would do 655 00:53:43,119 --> 00:53:50,880 is try to address the storm drain that runs through the Elizabeth Hager Center 656 00:53:47,839 --> 00:53:57,119 that that tunnel in one way or another. Um, we found out earlier uh this summer, 657 00:53:53,839 --> 00:54:00,720 late well late spring that the earmark had been approved 658 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:05,599 and we had some preliminary conversations with um the Environmental 659 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:09,920 Protection Agency because they are the ones that are going to administer this 660 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:14,559 grant or the the money that has to flow through them. 661 00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:19,520 And the money's been allocated to the city. It's it's there. It's ours. But in 662 00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:24,160 order to get that money, we actually have to fill out a a grant application, 663 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:28,240 basically apply for it. Um, and then they would give us the they would 664 00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:33,359 release the funds to us. And as part of that application process, we need to 665 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:36,559 send a work plan to them that kind of lays out, okay, here's what we're going 666 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,880 to spend the money on. Here are the projects that that we want to 667 00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:44,960 concentrate on. And so we would have to, you know, at some point we need to have 668 00:54:42,720 --> 00:54:51,839 an evaluation of that drain and figure out what's feasible. um to deal with it. 669 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:58,319 Is it something that we can um line or leave it in place the way it is and just 670 00:54:54,319 --> 00:55:04,559 sort of um try to improve it a little bit? Would we look at uh relocating the 671 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:09,760 drain around the Elizabeth Hager Center building? Um which is probably feasible, 672 00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:15,040 but it's got some other issues attached to it if we do that. or you know another 673 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:19,760 possibility if the if the drain's going to remain in its current location 674 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:24,079 there's really not in my opinion a feasible way to to replace it without 675 00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:27,760 demolishing the building. So I think that would be that's another one of the 676 00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:33,440 things that we need to have investigated and evaluated. What makes the most 677 00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:37,520 sense? You know there are pros and cons to any of these but what really makes 678 00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:43,359 the most sense. So what I would propose is we would do a work plan that would 679 00:55:40,319 --> 00:55:48,400 probably be multi-stage. The first part would be to hire a consultant um 680 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:54,240 engineering consultant or construction consultant to come in and evaluate these 681 00:55:51,359 --> 00:55:58,720 different options and lay out the pros and cons of what's going on and make a 682 00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:03,280 recommendation. This is what the city should do to address this problem. Then 683 00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:09,359 once we get to the point where we've made a decision on that, we would go 684 00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:13,520 ahead and um probably hire maybe the same consultant, maybe a different 685 00:56:10,799 --> 00:56:17,680 consultant to actually do the design of whatever was selected, prepare contract 686 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:23,359 documents so that we could put it out to bid um and go down that route. 687 00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:27,520 Um, but the reason I'm here today is I just um wanted to let you know that this 688 00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:33,119 is this is kind of how the process has to work in order to um to get that 689 00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:38,960 funding. I'm trying to make it so that we're we're as flexible as possible. 690 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:42,240 We're not locking ourselves into saying we're going to demolish a building or 691 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:46,880 we're going to save the building and do something else. I think that we want to 692 00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:51,680 maintain flexibility until the point where we have to make a decision and 693 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:55,680 then we we decide on that and and go from there. So, 694 00:56:54,319 --> 00:56:59,280 I guess the reason I'm here today is just to let you know I'd like to I guess 695 00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:04,880 have authorization to go ahead and start this process of the grant application 696 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:09,359 and a work plan and trying to get this information pulled together so we can 697 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:14,960 submit it to EPA. I'm fine. >> Yes. So 698 00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:19,839 you're talking about going through the process of 699 00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:26,160 u hiring a consultant an engineering firm to to basically do an analysis 700 00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:31,680 and then whatever that analysis determines 701 00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:36,400 then proceeding with an engineering design of whatever 702 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:40,319 um you know whatever the the the most 703 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:46,240 beneficial plan is 704 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:50,079 I mean a project of this type million dollars can get eaten up pretty quickly. 705 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:54,960 » Can >> and so I'm just trying to make sure are 706 00:57:52,799 --> 00:57:58,880 you looking at using these funds for the engineering process or would that be 707 00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:04,079 city funds? >> I think it's it would be both. I don't 708 00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:08,640 think that the the initial analysis is going to be as expensive as the actual 709 00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:14,319 design of it in the preparation of documents. So I think that I mean the 710 00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:19,520 there's this pot of money um from EPA this million dollars which in the memo I 711 00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:23,280 forgot to say that we qualify for a waiver of having to provide any matching 712 00:58:21,359 --> 00:58:28,640 funds for the so >> so the the full million dollars can be 713 00:58:26,079 --> 00:58:33,599 can be used on the project. We also have in the budget in the storm 714 00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:38,000 water fund, we've identified capital improvement projects. Um, and this would 715 00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:41,839 certainly qualify as one of the one of the projects that we could use to 716 00:58:40,079 --> 00:58:44,640 improve our storm drainage system. So, >> I just don't want to use this grant 717 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:49,760 funding for the like the studying process and even the engineering process 718 00:58:46,799 --> 00:58:53,839 and then going, "Ah, that's a $7 million project and you know, we got no prospect 719 00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:59,119 on using these private properties around it." And then we punt and then the feds 720 00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:03,040 go, "Hey, where's that project you were supposed to do with that money?" I mean, 721 00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:04,000 the answer can't be we just studied it, >> right? 722 00:59:03,359 --> 00:59:09,760 » You know what I'm saying? >> I do. It's complicated and I I think I 723 00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:15,040 need to have more conversations with our grant manager at EPA because the one of 724 00:59:12,559 --> 00:59:20,559 the complicating things is this is when we send in an application part of the 725 00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:26,319 process has to be um an environmental um a NEPA evaluation of the project and 726 00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:30,319 that not only looks at environmental issues which I don't think really in 727 00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:35,440 downtown Hagerstown you're not going to see endangered species or you know 728 00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:40,240 things like that but The other part of that evaluation is historical, you know, 729 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:45,040 and they are looking at, you know, the national historic regulations and trying 730 00:59:42,079 --> 00:59:50,640 to preserve things and that property is in the downtown historic district. And I 731 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:55,520 think that because of that, I guess my feeling is we almost need to have we 732 00:59:53,440 --> 01:00:00,880 almost need need to know what direction we're going in before we actually go 733 00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:04,160 ahead with the design because if it's if we're not touching the building, if 734 01:00:02,319 --> 01:00:08,319 we're going to relocate around the building, then I I don't think the 735 01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:12,000 environmental issues are going to be are going to amount to anything. If we're 736 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:15,359 talking about a solution that would require the demolition of the building, 737 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:19,280 then that's, you know, that's a different story and we would have to 738 01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:23,200 work through that work through that historic process on that. So, I I do 739 01:00:21,839 --> 01:00:28,480 hear what you're saying. We don't want to get to the end of this and have a a 740 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:32,000 through bonder with recommendations and we don't have any money left to do what 741 01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:34,880 it's recommending, >> right? 742 01:00:32,559 --> 01:00:39,280 » But I you know, we're kind of we're kind of stuck. I I because of that 743 01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:44,559 environmental thing, I don't I'm not sure I'm not sure how we proceed if we 744 01:00:43,119 --> 01:00:50,200 don't get some sort of an initial evaluation and and make a decision on 745 01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:50,200 what we want to do. 746 01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:55,079 » Anything else? 747 01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:04,079 » Okay, >> next up is 32 North PTOIC Street 748 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:10,000 building renovations. >> Right. So, um 32 North PTOIC is where 749 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:15,440 the city's relocated our customer service center and the um economic 750 01:01:13,599 --> 01:01:20,880 development offices to. It's the former MTN Bank building down the street here. 751 01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:26,799 Um as we had said before in different council present council presentations, 752 01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:31,200 the project did not go as well as we would have liked. We had contractor 753 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:36,720 problems. We ran into unexpected conditions at the site and it ended up 754 01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:41,920 significantly delaying the project and it also increased the project's cost 755 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:46,319 above what was originally budgeted. We were, you know, as that project was was 756 01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:50,880 going on, we were under some time pressures um to get the project 757 01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:58,480 finished, to get that building occupied. And so as the costs continue to 758 01:01:55,280 --> 01:02:03,200 increase, we went to Scott and to Michelle and said, "Okay, this work 759 01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:07,440 needs to be done. Um, we have a change order, a proposed change order from the 760 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:12,079 contractor. Can we go ahead and authorize this work without coming to 761 01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:15,440 council to get authorization for those extra expenditures, knowing that we 762 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:20,480 would have to come back at some point to get authorization?" And so that's what 763 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:26,480 we did in an effort to not only keep the project moving um but we did we really 764 01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:30,480 only wanted to come back one time um to ask we didn't want to have to come back 765 01:02:28,799 --> 01:02:34,559 you know one month and say well we need to increase the budget by 30,000 and 766 01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:40,000 then come back another time and said let's increase it another 45,000. 767 01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:45,839 Uh we we wanted to make the project flow get it completed and then come back at 768 01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:51,440 the end. Michelle found other funding sources um within the budget to cover 769 01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:56,319 the extra costs. So really what what this is is an after the fact coming to 770 01:02:53,920 --> 01:03:01,119 you asking for authorization for money that we've already spent on the project 771 01:02:59,359 --> 01:03:04,319 and that that lines up with our purchasing policy. 772 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:08,319 » Okay. >> Okay. 773 01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:12,640 » Okay. So we'll we'll prepare a motion uh for the regular session. I'm not exactly 774 01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:16,640 sure how I'm going to word it, but it's going to it's going to say that the 775 01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:22,160 council authorizes the additional expenditures that were that were made on 776 01:03:19,359 --> 01:03:25,760 the project. >> Right. Next up, you have the closed 777 01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:28,480 circuit television inspection of city standards. 778 01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:34,319 » Right. And this is this is just for awareness more than anything. Um when 779 01:03:32,319 --> 01:03:38,799 the storm water protection fund was set up, one of the things that was 780 01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:43,440 recommended by our consultant is we the city really needs to get a handle on the 781 01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:49,039 condition of the storm drainage network. Uh we have over a 100 miles of pipes and 782 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:53,039 tunnels and other things in the city. A lot of them um have never really been 783 01:03:51,359 --> 01:03:57,119 inspected. We don't know what kind of condition they're in. And some of these 784 01:03:55,119 --> 01:04:03,680 things are old, like the the drain at the Elizabeth Hager Center is probably 785 01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:08,000 130 140 years old. Um, anything downtown is really is really old and we really 786 01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:14,000 don't have a good idea of what condition it's in. So, we did a contract um to 787 01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:19,599 hire a specialty contractor that basically this is all they do. They come 788 01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:25,280 in and they'll clean and CCTV storm drains or sewers or things. give us that 789 01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:30,160 footage so that we can analyze it and see where we have problems and that's 790 01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:34,400 going to help us prioritize if we've got serious issues in the system. Here's 791 01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:40,000 here's a CIP project that we need to plan for, you know, to fix what's going 792 01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:44,400 on. So, we do have them under contract. Um, we have a kickoff meeting with them. 793 01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:48,000 We've already had one kickoff. We have another one tomorrow. And I would 794 01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:54,000 anticipate that they're actually going to mobilize and start this work probably 795 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:58,240 before the end of September. Um, tomorrow we're going to be sort of 796 01:04:55,920 --> 01:05:02,880 prioritizing areas where they're going to start. My guess is it's going to be 797 01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:08,079 the somewhere in the west end um and work their way downtown. 798 01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:12,880 Um, but that's yet to be completely ironed out. Uh, we're going to prepare 799 01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:17,039 um a couple things. We're going to prepare door hangers that the contractor 800 01:05:14,799 --> 01:05:19,760 is going to put out um on residents doors when they're moving into a 801 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:24,880 neighborhood just to give them some awareness. Going to be working with West 802 01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:29,760 to push out some notices on social media and the city's web page. Um but I just 803 01:05:27,599 --> 01:05:34,319 wanted to make the council aware that this project is starting. It's going to 804 01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:39,599 be somewhat disruptive because they bring big trucks in with all this camera 805 01:05:37,119 --> 01:05:42,880 equipment and and everything they need. said, "We're going to have to remove 806 01:05:40,640 --> 01:05:48,880 parking temporarily in certain streets so that they have room to work." Um, you 807 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:53,680 know, a lot of a lot of details that we need to need to work out with them, but 808 01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:58,720 this is this is work that they do all the time. I think the contractors well 809 01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:04,960 well qualified to do it. It's just we've never done this in Hagerstown before um 810 01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:07,920 on on our storm drainage system. So, um, hopeful that it's going to go smoothly, 811 01:06:06,559 --> 01:06:14,000 but just wanted to make the council aware, um, I'm sure you'll get reached 812 01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:19,680 out by residents asking what's going on and what's what's the whole purpose of 813 01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:23,599 this, but this project is funded again out of the storm water protection fund. 814 01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:26,400 So, this is people are paying into that fund, they're paying their storm water 815 01:06:24,799 --> 01:06:30,240 fee. This is one of the things that we're going to be using that money to to 816 01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:34,480 get a handle on what our system, what its condition is. 817 01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:42,240 Thank you. Thank you. >> Find Jimmy Hoffa or the Holy Grail or 818 01:06:38,319 --> 01:06:46,799 » We actually had um last week a guy showed up in our office, older 819 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:52,559 gentleman, I'd say in his at least in his 70s and he was asking questions 820 01:06:49,839 --> 01:06:57,440 about the storm drain system and and in particular these tunnels downtown. And I 821 01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:00,000 looked at him, I said, "What's your interest?" and he said, "Oh, well, I 822 01:06:58,799 --> 01:07:04,640 used to work for the engineering department here back in the I guess late 823 01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:08,000 60s, early 70s." And and they had us crawling through those things trying to 824 01:07:06,079 --> 01:07:11,440 figure out where the where they went and what was in them. He said they found 825 01:07:09,359 --> 01:07:14,960 some interesting things. Found some cannonballs somewhere and in one 826 01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:19,039 section. >> Of course, you couldn't with today's 827 01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:22,240 regulations. Nobody would be allowed to crawl through there, but I guess back 828 01:07:20,480 --> 01:07:25,200 then that was >> that was not unusual. So, 829 01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:32,160 » right. Thank you. >> Thanks, Jim. Very next Next up we have 830 01:07:28,799 --> 01:07:36,920 Steve Bachm Miller, the 20 25 2026 annual land management code amendment 831 01:07:33,920 --> 01:07:36,920 package. 832 01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:46,559 » Somebody's looking for a new home for those cannonballs. I'll be happy to take 833 01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:50,240 them. >> Oh yeah, I'm sure you will. 834 01:07:48,640 --> 01:07:54,720 » You'd crawl through those storm drains to find out. I guarantee it. 835 01:07:51,760 --> 01:08:00,240 » In a heartbeat. >> Okay. Um coming to follow up on the 836 01:07:57,839 --> 01:08:05,520 public hearing that y'all had on the annual package of text amendments. Uh we 837 01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:11,440 did receive some public comment at the hearing. Uh the record was left open for 838 01:08:08,559 --> 01:08:18,080 10 days. We did receive one piece of information. I was on vacation last 839 01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:22,159 week. Um I prepared uh my report to you in advance of my going on vacation, but 840 01:08:20,480 --> 01:08:25,839 I did check today and we have not received any additional comments in my 841 01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:29,440 absence. The one comment that we received was from a gentleman by the 842 01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:34,400 name of Tom Thorson who lives on Ideal Circle 843 01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:38,000 and he said, "One of the main purposes of adopting ADUs is to increase the 844 01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:42,960 housing stock. You may want to consider banning these units from being used for 845 01:08:39,839 --> 01:08:46,960 short-term rentals like Airbnb. Some communities that currently have the 846 01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:52,319 ADU provision in their zoning restrict ADUs from being used as short-term 847 01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:55,839 rentals. I am also surprised that there was no mention of data centers in the 848 01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:59,199 proposed amendments. To the best of my knowledge, they are permitted within the 849 01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:04,080 city of Hagerstown and industrial zones. The county moratorium stops at all city 850 01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:12,239 and town lines. Uh so that was I read that uh word for word into the record. 851 01:09:06,799 --> 01:09:16,719 Um the um if there is a desire to look at 852 01:09:14,080 --> 01:09:20,080 regulating abuse, it kind of opens up a uh a whole another can of worms because 853 01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:24,159 you would need to look at it more holistically, not just on these 854 01:09:21,759 --> 01:09:29,120 accessory dwelling units in my opinion. Um, and also that it is something that 855 01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:32,719 is so outside of what the existing proposed 856 01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:36,799 language is, we would have to come back to you later with a different uh or an 857 01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:39,679 additional proposal that we have to go through the hearing process. That's not 858 01:09:38,159 --> 01:09:44,319 something that we could just tack tack into this. So, what I want to do is I 859 01:09:42,480 --> 01:09:47,440 don't I don't want to belver the process and go through these one by one. And I 860 01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:51,759 figure what I would do is if you have any questions or concerns about 861 01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:56,239 individual proposals uh or suggestions for adjusting them, I would be um you 862 01:09:54,960 --> 01:10:02,560 know, we could just go through the ones that you do have interest in. Before we 863 01:09:58,719 --> 01:10:08,000 do do that, I do have one um staff level requested adjustment to one of the 864 01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:15,719 proposals which I'm going to hand out here. There's three for there. 865 01:10:12,719 --> 01:10:15,719 Two, 866 01:10:16,239 --> 01:10:26,400 three, four, five. And this is for uh proposal 867 01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:32,640 number 17 on page 23 of your packet. Uh this is the one about um um limiting u a 868 01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:37,760 specific type of townhouse development in the city. Um, I looked at a a a 869 01:10:36,159 --> 01:10:42,800 development, a small development that's coming our way in the next year or so, 870 01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:46,400 and I realized that um given the circumstances, maybe a little bit of 871 01:10:44,239 --> 01:10:51,840 adjustment to the language to make the regulations a little bit more uh 872 01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:56,159 flexible uh on the planning commission's part. Uh so that is the material that I 873 01:10:54,080 --> 01:11:00,400 just passed out to you. Uh it's just a few minor word adjustments to make it a 874 01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:04,640 little little bit uh more flexible. So, with that, um, I guess I'll open the 875 01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:13,440 floor and if you have any specific concerns or comments, you're not obliged 876 01:11:08,719 --> 01:11:18,880 to, uh, adopt this in its entirety, um, uh, or reject its entirety. You can also 877 01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:22,560 give us direction to pick any number of them, say go with these and don't go 878 01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:27,360 with other ones. And, um, 879 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:33,040 also, oh, I'm sorry, that's all I have for that. So, I figure I'll let you uh 880 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:35,600 » There was there was still some concern over the bicycle parking. 881 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:38,800 » Yes. >> 33 on in the packet. 882 01:11:38,159 --> 01:11:43,280 » Mhm. >> And the 883 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:47,520 the requirements. >> Yeah. Uh I believe council member 884 01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:53,840 Alshshire thought that uh maybe they might be a little uh on the high side. 885 01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:57,280 Again, we did not do an in-depth dive into this comparing a whole bunch of 886 01:11:55,360 --> 01:12:00,800 jurisdictions. We found one example that seemed to work. If these are high, we 887 01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:05,679 can make if you want us to reduce these numbers, it's very easy to do so. Uh, 888 01:12:03,199 --> 01:12:09,600 cut it by 20%, 50%, whatever it is that you would like. 889 01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:13,640 But we thought something ought to be on the books. Right now, we have nothing. 890 01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:29,560 And for me, I would I would prefer reduceing 891 01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:37,000 it for now. 892 01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:50,480 Would that be reducing all of them? And if so, by a uniform 893 01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:53,760 amount or >> I just don't know. Like for me, I just 894 01:12:52,719 --> 01:12:58,960 don't know. in this particular item why it needs to 895 01:12:56,239 --> 01:13:01,920 be so specific. And I think the more specific it gets with the more specific 896 01:13:00,719 --> 01:13:05,920 types of uses >> Mhm. It's like the more odd the numbers 897 01:13:04,239 --> 01:13:08,920 become because 898 01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:18,640 one non-residential properties change uses you know what I mean all the time 899 01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:22,159 and it seems like we are looking at having them installed in a more 900 01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:26,520 permanent fashion >> than previously and until and 901 01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:36,080 um any type of similar uses can can have 902 01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:40,159 drastically dissimilar um types of patrons and and patron you 903 01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,440 know what I mean >> right 904 01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:48,480 » uh attendance >> the the issue that I would have as as 905 01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:54,000 your adviser on this is if we're going to have a regulation there needs to be 906 01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:58,080 some sort of minimum threshold so somebody who is submitting a site plan 907 01:13:55,920 --> 01:14:02,960 can say I've complied with your rules or I haven't um if we put in something that 908 01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:06,719 says there should be bicycle parking, but we don't have some sort of minimum 909 01:14:04,640 --> 01:14:10,640 threshold, then it becomes very subjective in the review process, which 910 01:14:08,800 --> 01:14:14,239 we can do. I'm not saying that it can't be done that way. I'm just letting you 911 01:14:12,080 --> 01:14:16,800 know what the pluses pluses and minuses are to the situation. 912 01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:21,440 » I just look at the fieldhouse as an example. You know, I'm there several 913 01:14:18,719 --> 01:14:25,040 times a week and and you know, there there there are no bikes to be seen and 914 01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:28,400 there are tons of patrons, >> right, 915 01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:32,239 » on any, you know, given average night. >> You know what I And then I read that 916 01:14:29,679 --> 01:14:38,960 that rule and I'm like, you know, what it needs in in the the 917 01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:43,440 crux of those, you know, it's it's it's trying to find places to put cars on the 918 01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:48,560 busy weekends and and the number of bikes that will apply to that type 919 01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:54,000 location is just eating into that space. I I guess that like I just use those or 920 01:14:51,679 --> 01:14:56,080 the church example where you know >> how many people bike to church. 921 01:14:55,679 --> 01:15:00,800 » Yeah. >> Yeah. you know, and how many seats per 922 01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:01,920 queue, you know, do you count? >> Right. 923 01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:07,360 » Um, >> do we need this table? 924 01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:11,199 » The problem with not having a table is is that it makes compliance totally 925 01:15:09,679 --> 01:15:14,320 subjective. >> Um, and if you think that this needs 926 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:17,040 some work, I mean, we could pull it from this package and bring it back in the 927 01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:22,560 next year's package. I mean, >> like like for me, for me it would be 928 01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:24,800 something as simple as saying uh and again, I'm just sort of 929 01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:31,840 spitballing now, >> right? But like I look at uh CVS over on 930 01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:36,560 Wilson and South PTOIC like to me I see a number of bikes there you know when I 931 01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:39,040 go by not a large number but maybe like two or three of people riding there to 932 01:15:38,239 --> 01:15:41,360 get whatever >> right 933 01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:45,120 » and so that to me says oh that place probably could benefit from a bike rack 934 01:15:43,040 --> 01:15:48,320 for eight bikes right >> but then when you get above that like 935 01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:52,000 there to me there should be like something that says you know commercial 936 01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:54,560 establishment of this type and size one rack you know what I mean and a 937 01:15:53,199 --> 01:16:00,320 commercial establishment of some type and size, you know, two racks or 938 01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:02,159 whatever. And so you base it on, >> you know what I mean? 939 01:16:01,199 --> 01:16:05,679 » The square footage of >> Yeah. like square footage and and size 940 01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:07,760 and use that kind of dictates that versus 941 01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:13,199 » like >> seats per per, you know, per table or 942 01:16:12,239 --> 01:16:16,080 those types of things. >> So changing the metrics, 943 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,920 » right? Like like nobody's biking to to eat at Cracker Barrel, you know what I 944 01:16:17,600 --> 01:16:23,520 mean, >> right? Um, so to me, like, yeah, a 945 01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:29,600 square footage seems to be more appropriate 946 01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:32,600 than than a per seat number. Um, 947 01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:39,679 uh, for that uh, well, we have retail, sales, use, 948 01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:44,320 and service operations. The greater of two or one per 5,000 square feet. So, 949 01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:47,520 some of these are already based on the size. 950 01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:51,520 » Yeah. Um, that's what I said. Some of them seem 951 01:16:48,800 --> 01:16:54,800 like, oh yeah, that that's, you know, that's about right. But then some of 952 01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:59,760 them are like, >> okay, so we have one, 953 01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:03,440 two, three, looks like about four of them that are 954 01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:05,440 based on seats as opposed to square footage. You want us to convert those 955 01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,760 out? >> I just think that's the simplest. 956 01:17:07,199 --> 01:17:09,760 » Yeah. >> Yeah. 957 01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:14,560 » Okay. Um, what I'll do is I'll I'll check to 958 01:17:12,640 --> 01:17:18,400 see uh if there's comparables out there and then adjust accordingly. 959 01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:23,719 » Okay. >> Thank you. 960 01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:23,719 » All right. 961 01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:33,239 » Got it. All right. Um, 962 01:17:41,679 --> 01:17:49,199 are there any other proposals in here that uh cause you 963 01:17:47,679 --> 01:17:52,800 concern uh or things that you want to suggest 964 01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:58,159 changing or specifically want to support? 965 01:17:56,320 --> 01:18:02,320 Um, I mean the the the first 16 or so are 966 01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:09,159 really routine kind of housekeeping kind of stuff. The la last 10 are really 967 01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:09,159 where your your policy content is. 968 01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,040 Um 969 01:18:18,159 --> 01:18:25,679 I will bring up the um the one that I suggested to you the uh the adjustment 970 01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:30,320 to the language here at the table. That is uh one that we did receive some 971 01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:34,239 comment on but and we encouraged the development community to comment on it 972 01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:37,440 during uh this hearing process with the mayor and council. We got nothing from 973 01:18:35,679 --> 01:18:43,800 them. And this is the one about regulating this the one type of uh 974 01:18:40,239 --> 01:18:43,800 townhouse development. 975 01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:50,960 » Yeah. >> You talk to me about it. 976 01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:55,600 » Yeah. And and actually um that that actually spurred Okay. 977 01:18:52,239 --> 01:19:02,320 » this adjustment. So we're good. Um, but in general, as the city, as your advisor 978 01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:07,199 on planning issues, we're going through a period here where we're not begging 979 01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:10,480 for development anymore. Um, there's a lot of demand. Housing developments are 980 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:15,360 coming online. Commercial development is coming online. 981 01:19:12,560 --> 01:19:20,480 And it's my advice to you all to think 100 years in the future. Uh, that the 982 01:19:18,719 --> 01:19:24,800 development that gets approved ought to be the best development we we can get. 983 01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:29,840 And anything that we could build get built, especially housing, is going to 984 01:19:26,640 --> 01:19:33,679 be here long long after we are all gone. So the idea is to have the best possible 985 01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:39,280 design that you can have. And we've just found that no matter where we see it, 986 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:45,520 the uh design of front-loaded town houses with a single wide car, single 987 01:19:41,679 --> 01:19:49,280 car wide driveway just fails everywhere. So, we're we're encouraging and we do we 988 01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:55,280 do have a provision that allows some exceptions uh on limited basises, but we 989 01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:59,679 want to encourage uh developers of town houses to do one of two things. Either 990 01:19:57,440 --> 01:20:02,880 put the parking behind uh the driveways in their backyard behind the building, 991 01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:06,400 or if you're going to have front yard driveways, do it two cars wide so the 992 01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:10,080 cars are side by side. And if you're going to kill the on street parking 993 01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:14,280 along that side anyway, might as well do it with a twocar wide driveway. 994 01:20:14,560 --> 01:20:17,560 So, 995 01:20:19,280 --> 01:20:25,760 » I know the open space stuff is in here and there's some minor adjustments. Uh, 996 01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:28,080 I feel like that's a bigger conversation for another day. 997 01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:32,640 » You're talking about the one with the school stuff. 998 01:20:30,159 --> 01:20:36,320 » No, no, no. I'm talking about open space requirements for new development. I 999 01:20:34,640 --> 01:20:38,080 think that that's a bigger conversation for another day. 1000 01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:43,080 » Okay. >> Than than, you know, the minor 1001 01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:43,080 adjustments. 1002 01:20:43,440 --> 01:20:50,760 uh in this particular process, 1003 01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:50,760 » right? 1004 01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:54,560 » Okay. >> I think that it needs to be a 1005 01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:59,920 conversation about open space, what our expectations are for that open space, 1006 01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:03,840 its uh contiguousness, uh you know, whether it's public or 1007 01:21:02,159 --> 01:21:08,800 private, how that works. I think we need to have a conversation about uh you 1008 01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:12,880 know, the the benefits uh and and the pros and cons of HOAs. I just think that 1009 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:18,880 that has to be a conversation at some point uh among uh the body. 1010 01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:24,640 » This periodically has come up in these annual uh studies. Would you all want to 1011 01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:29,199 want us to look at that specifically and come back and meet with you before we 1012 01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:35,360 start processing the next an annual process or do you want us to be more 1013 01:21:32,480 --> 01:21:39,600 sooner than that? So for me I think that that conversation needs to come to this 1014 01:21:37,199 --> 01:21:44,159 body and I think that two items need to happen in that discussion. one, I think 1015 01:21:42,400 --> 01:21:51,600 that this body needs to be given some physical reference to um I'll say more 1016 01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:57,120 recent developments in city past, how those HOAs operate, how they're working, 1017 01:21:54,800 --> 01:22:01,360 » uh you know, what we've had to what we've had to address, you know, what has 1018 01:21:59,360 --> 01:22:06,000 worked good. And then I think, you know, I think also those neighborhoods the 1019 01:22:04,239 --> 01:22:10,400 same look, you know, what did what open space, you 1020 01:22:08,239 --> 01:22:14,159 know, did we get? What was its quality? How did it function? And I use this 1021 01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:18,320 example. >> There are two Lowe's in Edgartown. 1022 01:22:16,719 --> 01:22:23,440 » You can clearly tell the difference between which Lowe's was built first and 1023 01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:26,880 which was built second. And I guess I look at that in a very similar way and 1024 01:22:25,120 --> 01:22:30,960 say, you know, the Lowe's at one specific location is our preference for 1025 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:37,679 how we would want a shopping center designed and to function 1026 01:22:33,679 --> 01:22:41,040 than the the more hardened, you know, streetscape look, 1027 01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:43,440 » you know, of of that older shopping center. I sort of use that that example 1028 01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:46,639 to say >> 22 20 years ago I wrote those standards. 1029 01:22:45,520 --> 01:22:48,719 So thank you. >> So we sort of like learn from that. You 1030 01:22:48,159 --> 01:22:52,239 know what I mean? >> Yeah. Um, and I do like the newer 1031 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:56,320 housing developments that have the driveways in the back because I do feel 1032 01:22:54,639 --> 01:23:00,000 like it, you know, kind of frontloads the townhouse and it's overcrowded on 1033 01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:02,719 there and then it's everywhere. It's just kind of disaster cuz, you know, I 1034 01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:07,120 visited my friend in, you know, the Shady Grove Metro. He had the new limb, 1035 01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:10,320 the LAR town home and he had the back garage and everything like that and 1036 01:23:08,719 --> 01:23:14,239 there just wasn't that much cluster of cars all out front and just easier to 1037 01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:17,760 park and stuff like that. So, I think a better, like you said, we got to we got 1038 01:23:16,239 --> 01:23:21,840 to build it for something for 100 years or later. Yeah. 1039 01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:23,920 » You know, so get what we want it to look like out. 1040 01:23:22,719 --> 01:23:29,600 » Yeah. >> Okay. 1041 01:23:26,639 --> 01:23:34,719 » So, are we okay with uh introducing an ordinance to uh to adopt these uh at the 1042 01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:37,360 end of the month? >> Pulling the bikes. You're going to pull 1043 01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:38,960 » We'll pull the bikes. >> Okay. 1044 01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:43,199 » Yeah. >> Um the alternative is for us to just 1045 01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:46,719 take an arbitrary stab at adjusting those few, but if we can just pull it 1046 01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:48,560 and come back with it in the next annual package. That's fine. 1047 01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:49,760 » Okay. >> The council. 1048 01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:51,760 » Yeah. >> Yep. 1049 01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:56,080 » Okay. >> And and you're okay with this adjustment 1050 01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:58,800 to the the townhouse limitations? >> Yes. 1051 01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:03,320 » Next up is your draft update of the historic district commission design 1052 01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:03,320 guidelines. 1053 01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:19,600 Okay. Um, last month, uh, Mike Gear and I, uh, Mike Gear is the chairman of the 1054 01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:25,840 Historic District Commission and I presented to you all the draft, uh, uh, 1055 01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:30,320 update revision to the historic district design guideline, historic district 1056 01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:33,920 commission's design guidelines. Um, currently they operate off of two 1057 01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:39,040 separate distinct sets of guidelines. Uh, one for the downtown district and 1058 01:24:35,679 --> 01:24:42,480 one for the residential. um they have grown rather out of date and we're 1059 01:24:40,719 --> 01:24:49,280 missing things that really commonly are found in design guidelines for HDC's. So 1060 01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:55,920 over the last few years as time allowed uh and resources allowed uh we uh came 1061 01:24:52,400 --> 01:25:03,120 up with a uh a more comprehensive uh complete and singular uh draft for you 1062 01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:06,320 to review um and endorse. Um the majority of this is stuff that's already 1063 01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:11,280 in the in the existing design guidelines. Uh we did add some material 1064 01:25:09,199 --> 01:25:18,400 which is highlighted in blue in your draft that is material that is either 1065 01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:23,760 just non-policy background like glossery issues uh things like that things that 1066 01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:28,480 are not policy oriented and things that are have been common practice over the 1067 01:25:25,679 --> 01:25:32,560 years with the HDC with uh with no issues that we decided that needs to be 1068 01:25:30,719 --> 01:25:37,199 written down somewhere so people can actually read and understand them. Um, 1069 01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:42,239 and then in red is stuff that is associated that is actual new whole 1070 01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:47,040 cloth content. And then that's mostly designed uh to address last year's 1071 01:25:45,199 --> 01:25:52,880 amendments to these owning ordinance that um made various uh historic types 1072 01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:57,679 of signs which have been regulated out of existence in the downtown to actually 1073 01:25:55,040 --> 01:26:03,120 be uh be able to be used again. So that content in red is actually uh new and is 1074 01:26:00,639 --> 01:26:07,040 an essentially it's an application or an administration of those text amendments 1075 01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:14,080 that were adopted last year regarding those signs. Um it's like 20 pages long. 1076 01:26:12,159 --> 01:26:18,960 Um I don't think any of you want to walk through it page by page, but um 1077 01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:24,239 » I actually found myself reading it because I think it's super interesting 1078 01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:29,600 on a historical basis on Hagerstown, too. So, 1079 01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:33,040 » thank you. So, and it's it was uh this was a team effort. Uh it actually 1080 01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:38,239 started uh back with Megan uh Flick and then it 1081 01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:43,440 was passed to Joanna and then I've I'm bringing it up the rear and finishing it 1082 01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:47,199 off. We wanted to get this um as a win and and on the book so we can move on to 1083 01:26:45,360 --> 01:26:53,679 other projects and not have this hanging out there. Um 1084 01:26:50,239 --> 01:26:57,760 but uh it's it's it's a comprehensive document. uh we we wanted to make sure 1085 01:26:55,920 --> 01:27:01,679 we we created it as a manual for anything that 1086 01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:06,000 anybody would have an uh desire or an issue with uh in dealing with historic 1087 01:27:03,920 --> 01:27:11,520 preservation issues in the city, not just uh how to uh navigate the HDC. So 1088 01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:17,199 with that um if you have anything specific you want to talk about um uh 1089 01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:20,239 then we can have a conversation. The one thing that we would ask administratively 1090 01:27:18,639 --> 01:27:26,480 is once you give us the go-ahehead on this and you u formulate a a motion to 1091 01:27:24,159 --> 01:27:30,239 endorse it so that the HTC can be can begin using it, we would ask that that 1092 01:27:28,639 --> 01:27:35,120 motion be worded in such a way that allows us to make nonpolicy updates to 1093 01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:41,199 it because occasionally information will change. Uh let's say the county changes 1094 01:27:38,639 --> 01:27:44,880 its uh tax credit program for historic preservation. That's nothing that you 1095 01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:48,639 all have any real control over. but then the data, the information is obsolete. 1096 01:27:46,880 --> 01:27:54,080 So, we want to be able to make non-policy updates to it um as needed. 1097 01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:57,760 Anything that would be something that changes how things are done, obviously 1098 01:27:56,239 --> 01:28:01,480 we'd have to come back to you all for for a formal revision. 1099 01:28:05,280 --> 01:28:08,760 » Anything guys? 1100 01:28:10,480 --> 01:28:17,560 » Wow, that was easy. >> There you go. 1101 01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:17,560 » Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. 1102 01:28:21,199 --> 01:28:28,000 » Next up, we have Sue Tyler and Amanda Greg with the Maryland Energy 1103 01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:31,000 Administration Residential Energy Equity Grant. 1104 01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:43,719 » All right, we'll try to keep this short. I know you guys are trying to get out of 1105 01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:43,719 here. Um, so I just said on 1106 01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:52,159 staff went um to the city administrator CFO to recommend to apply for the 1107 01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:56,719 Department of Energy, Maryland Department of Energy Administration, 1108 01:28:53,760 --> 01:29:01,760 residential energy equity program. Um we're looking at two grants. One for 1109 01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:06,560 residential energy efficient projects are 500,000 and appliance installation 1110 01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:10,560 of 75,000. Key parts is the city does not need to 1111 01:29:08,639 --> 01:29:16,320 match on the grant. It's for low to moderate income Maryland households. It 1112 01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:19,760 can be owner occupied or renter occupied which we currently in community 1113 01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:28,320 development housing do not have any renter occupied programs. 1114 01:29:24,159 --> 01:29:34,080 Um they'll allow up on the AOI1 21,000 per resident and on the appliance 1115 01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:38,000 installation up to 32,000 for kitchen appliances or 1,500 for washer and 1116 01:29:36,480 --> 01:29:42,560 dryer. Again, it's 100% of the eligible cost if 1117 01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:48,560 it doesn't exceed that. And we have till October 1st to apply. We did get um some 1118 01:29:46,159 --> 01:29:52,880 help from the University of Maryland Environmental Finance Center tomorrow to 1119 01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:58,880 help us do a grant writing for the grant. There is possibly up to $5 1120 01:29:56,639 --> 01:30:03,280 million going into Western Maryland is available up for grabs. So, pretty 1121 01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:09,760 significant amount that we thought would be great. It is a year of two years to 1122 01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:15,040 extend extend the funding. So, we do have two years if we get awarded the 1123 01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:18,800 full 500,000 or 75,000. >> That's awesome. You have me at full um 1124 01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:20,719 You have no match. >> Yep. No match. 1125 01:30:19,679 --> 01:30:24,239 » Yeah. No match. >> Yeah. So, we thought it was something 1126 01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:27,760 different to be able to offer the residents if we can get approval. 1127 01:30:27,199 --> 01:30:30,000 » Good. >> Yes. For sure. 1128 01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:32,000 » All right. >> Thank you. 1129 01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:34,400 » Thank you. >> Thanks. 1130 01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:40,480 city administrator. >> All right. Just a couple things, mayor. 1131 01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:46,239 Um, this Saturday, um, 11 to 2 on South Pem Street is the Washington goes purple 1132 01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:51,199 block party. Um, also on Saturday, September 12th and Elizabeth Hagar lot 1133 01:30:48,639 --> 01:30:55,920 is the uh, Battle of the Wings competition. One room media and down and 1134 01:30:53,199 --> 01:31:02,880 Main Street are partnering up partnering up for that. Um, you can buy tickets 1135 01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:10,320 online. Uh, go to akerstownmd.org. or and uh do that. Sunday, September 13th 1136 01:31:06,480 --> 01:31:16,800 is Hagerstown Latinfest, 11 to 8 uh in University Plaza. Live music, food, uh 1137 01:31:13,760 --> 01:31:21,040 free admissions, um that I remember that from I think last 1138 01:31:18,719 --> 01:31:26,159 year. It was a great event. And then of course the farmers market is the 13th. 1139 01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:33,760 Also, big shout out to the downtown businesses. Uh last Wednesday I went to 1140 01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:37,120 the Seinfeld uh show and I have never seen that many people in a Maryland 1141 01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:41,760 theater before to where I don't recall there even being an empty seat that I 1142 01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:47,280 could see. Uh every restaurant was packed. Um I heard nothing. I I tend to 1143 01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:53,440 like to ease drop on people I don't know's conversations just to see what 1144 01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:58,880 they're saying. And um everyone was so like so impressed. A couple from Carlile 1145 01:31:55,840 --> 01:32:04,159 were down uh said that they had no idea Hagerstown was like this and uh they 1146 01:32:02,719 --> 01:32:12,880 were going to they wanted to come back see Leno on the 28th. Um so it was it 1147 01:32:08,639 --> 01:32:19,040 was a good night. Uh even after the show uh the restaurants most of them stayed 1148 01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:22,560 open and um it was it was a good night. It was a good night in in Hagerstown. 1149 01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:27,840 So, shout out to the Maryland Theater also putting on a great show and um we 1150 01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:32,080 may see Steinfeld back in another couple of years for that. So, that's it for me. 1151 01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:35,199 Thanks, >> Councilwoman Anderson. 1152 01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:40,480 » I agree with everything that you just said only because I was there too and I 1153 01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:44,480 was listening in on the conversations and a lot of people were just so 1154 01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:48,560 surprised to even, you know, the fact that he chose Hagerstown as a location. 1155 01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:53,440 And one of the comments that he made that I thought was so funny on why he 1156 01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:57,280 chose Hagerstown, um it had to do with it being a Wednesday night, of course, 1157 01:32:54,800 --> 01:33:01,440 and you know, it being sold out, but uh he was really funny and I could tell 1158 01:32:58,639 --> 01:33:08,159 that he really um felt connected with our town based on his uh his wanting of 1159 01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:12,639 not leaving the show immediately once it was done. He made like a real connection 1160 01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:17,679 with the folks here. Um that was really nice. And back to what you said with the 1161 01:33:14,880 --> 01:33:23,520 restaurants, I we actually ate at um Rice Thai and what she mentioned was 1162 01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:28,080 from 4 until 8 she was slammed. Um Soprito also was slammed from 4 to 7 1163 01:33:26,480 --> 01:33:32,400 p.m. So I could tell you that a lot of the restaurant businesses were really 1164 01:33:30,159 --> 01:33:35,840 heavy and that might have had something to do with um Britney's email because 1165 01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:39,840 she did send out something to the business communities letting them know 1166 01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:43,760 like, "Hey, we are having a huge event. you might want to, you know, be prepared 1167 01:33:41,440 --> 01:33:47,840 and ready for this. So, I think it was a great turnout and who knows, he might be 1168 01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:52,080 back because he really did enjoy, he really did enjoy Hagerstown. 1169 01:33:50,719 --> 01:33:55,360 And that's all I have. >> Council Flity, 1170 01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:57,600 » I don't have anything. >> Counciloman Bernett, 1171 01:33:56,320 --> 01:34:01,120 » nothing tonight. >> Councilman Al, 1172 01:33:58,480 --> 01:34:05,920 » I have nothing to say. Well, I uh do not, but I will say uh not only did we 1173 01:34:04,639 --> 01:34:09,199 had that going on, we had a baseball game going on at the same time as as 1174 01:34:07,679 --> 01:34:13,679 that was going on and it was well handled downtown. So, I want to give a 1175 01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:18,000 shout out to um everybody, police department, everybody that that worked 1176 01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:20,400 that evening. So, thank you. Um with that, do I have a motion to adjurnn? 1177 01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:24,719 » So, moved. >> Second. Second. 1178 01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:27,600 » Any discussion on any items tonight? Okay, we're journ.