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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government meeting.

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Local government.

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I mw'r i'r administraf fynd treball, sy'n rlydau llwydd Stgenwys, Mae'n rhperi'n accid ar y kweithio fromir,

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am frijd o'r gyfer nghorio ystyfriflich dfeswyd.

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Anwydw, eich yn cyboidios mewn eich yn rhaffio ds'n rhoi'r ds'n rhaffio ds'n rhaffio ds'n rhaffio.

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a dweud ymael ymael fyddau ddeud ei ymaeliau, a rwneud ymaelau, a rwneud ei ymaelau.

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I shall come to order.

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And colleagues, we will come to order and we're going to go on to item two on the agenda special community announcements and acknowledgments and I think that there is an elephant in the room.

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So I may start off by acknowledging that elephant's colleagues. You may recall that I made a very public wager with mayor Olivia Chao of Toronto during the national lacrosse league championships where the Halifax Thunderbirds were facing off against the Toronto Rock.

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And that wager the losing mayor had to wear the winning mayor's team jersey during a council meetings.

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Well, my friends today is the day.

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Before the meeting, I want to say thank you to Councilor Johnson and I'm on.

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You should have all received a Thunderbird jersey. This is a very generous gift from the Halifax Thunderbirds. It's yours to keep.

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Yes indeed, that's a nice surprise in the turn of events here.

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Showing their gratitude for your support through their season.

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At the end of the community acknowledgments, we will we will take a photo and in front of the race platform here.

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We'll gather around so that we can make good on the ill-advised wager that I've made with Mayor Chao.

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And then we'll take a group photo as well with the council and I will change my t-shirt to a Thunderbird shirt and we'll gather at the break.

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Thank you for your time.

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Thank you for taking part in the fight.

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There we go.

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And with that, I'll look to the board and I do see Councillor Stainer on please.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Well it's that time of year again. Bedford days is upon us.

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And I didn't want to wait until next week's meeting because quite frankly, there's just too much going on.

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And the Bedford days celebration start just days later.

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Bedford days runs from June 25th all the way through to Canada today.

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And I'm delighted to invite residents to visit Halifax.ca slash Bedford days for the complete schedule of events.

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But one of the events that I'd like to highlight is I am hosting a bike ride, a very family friendly bike ride from Dwealth Park to our wonderful beautiful Bedford public library.

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And then back again, so we'll get to experience the Bedford waterfront along short drive.

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And we'll just hang out in the park and enjoy one another's company afterwards.

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And so I invite all of my council colleagues or I haven't invited all of my council colleagues to join me.

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And I invite the community to come out as well just to have a little bit of fun as we mark Bedford days once again.

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Very good looking forward to it.

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Thank you very much, Councillor.

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And we'll move on to Councillor Dagelgamel, please.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And it's dress up day.

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So today, Jay's care foundation would like to say a huge thank you on June 7th.

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The Jay's care foundation announced contribution, their grants of $500,000.

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A half a million dollars to go to lights in the wavily sports park.

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We're 12 years waiting for these lights.

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So hopefully this investment kind of moves us along a little bit.

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But congratulations to the LWF Baseball Association led by President Adam Long.

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And the executive director is a long time.

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Councillor Noun to many Barry Del Rumpel.

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So that dance of joy was made at the Wavily Legion when they made their announcement.

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And just congratulations.

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And thank you to the Jay's care foundation.

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Thank you.

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And well done. Councilor Jay, I'm an undergraduate advocacy leading to this great outcome.

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I'm very happy to join you in celebrating the turn of the day.

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And with that, the day of many outfits.

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With that, we'll go to Councillor Kent's please.

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Yes.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

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I just wanted to acknowledge that sure water community,

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sure water community residents association is opening a new community garden behind the arena at

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Shearwater on Saturday.

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And the vendor, they're opening it with a vendor market.

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The community on a wide yard sale.

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That's at nine o'clock in the morning.

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I think.

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Yeah, it's nine o'clock in the morning of my memory.

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Being faithful to me.

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The other thing that's happening.

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The following weekend is on Saturday is the para community concert.

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And lots of games and activities for young and old.

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And we have lots of food there.

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And wonderful people.

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So I'm encouraging people to go out.

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And lastly, I am going to take this opportunity to express as a Grammy that my youngest grandson,

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the Francis, is already a year old on the at the end of this month.

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And I don't know how that happened, but it did.

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And so we have a two year old and a one year old now all together.

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So I just want to say happy birthday to him, officially.

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Thank you.

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Thank you very much for that.

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And we'll move to Councillor Hensby, please.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Regrettion Society behalf getting at the general meeting at the Reg.

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Back at local community center.

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Also the same time once day June 17th that 7 o'clock, the Musculob.

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And uh, and we're an area to chamber commerce.

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We have town hall meeting, very important.

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Top would be the discuss, we'll be the, the future of the Eastern Children's

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75 school building that's been vacated ever since built in the new school.

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And the industrial part.

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Definitely a part of a fall of flesh and MLA, minister Kent Smith.

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Be present for that meeting discuss what's.

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what's what's to what the faith that ability may be coming up on the following week on the weekend

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on the Saturday the June of the 20th there were 46 the Calvin United church out there but Lawrence

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Town Beach we have in the spaghetti supper and on the 21st the first day of summer also

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did genus day. Chesapeake days will be occurring all day the Chesapeake Lions Center from

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off East Chesapeake Road starting at 9 o'clock with breakfast going through the day to 4 o'clock with

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barbecues fighting games and everything else also that afternoon 12 noon come Thompson of the

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executive director of the dinnery out there in West Ship Harbor will be officially retiring

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and passing the torch to Craig Puncher the new executive director that's been hired and I want to

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congratulate and give my appreciation to Kim on her service to the community at the dinnery project in

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in Asia Harbor. Thank you. Thank you very much Councillor Hensby seeing no other

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names on the list will carry on to item four which is approval of the order of business and approved

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all of additions and deletions and madam clerk all turned all the the photo correct let's let's

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pause and do the quick photo I wanted to ask for the patience of the folks in the gallery and

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watching at home for which is so we can take care of this this quick moment here and would invite

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colleagues up to the front here and we can take care of this this item both sides yeah let's

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just sort of gather up here best we can

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you

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you

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you

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and just as we resume our seats the all that excitement reminded me of one one final announcement and that is

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a sale GP is back so I was going to invite everybody to make sure they get down to the waterfront

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there are spaces for 50,000 people to watch on the waterfront of Halifax and Dartmouth without having to pay a penny

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all up and down they're only two it's only one very small area that's paid the rest of it is wide open

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and we're going to watch these amazing high tech 50 foot high-deforelling catamarans reach speeds of 100

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kilometers an hour cheering on team Canada who have two or three members from right here in HRM

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that call this their home so hope to see everybody down in the waterfront for sale GP now without we'll move on to

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item for the approval oh my god the minutes we're going to approve the minutes of May 26

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2026 could have a motion I saw a counselor steal seconded by counselor Gillis and he discussion on the minutes

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seeing none all those in favor show of hands please in the minutes are approved now I'm

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working been very patient now hello we'll get to to item for the approval of the order of business what do you have for us

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thank you Mayor we have a few additions as follows 18.1 fly-plus request sale GP event 18.2

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counselor hands be letter of support for FCM sustainable communities award item 17.6 property matter

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and item 22.1 private and confidential in-camera in private information report personnel matter

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there's also a request to move 1541 board of police commissioners 202526 in your report

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and work plan to follow item 13 okay thank you very much I see counselor Austin has raised his hand

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thank you Mr. Mayor I just like to move the information item on the playing field strategy to our next meeting

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please the information report okay there good so noted thank you for that then I've seen no further

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names on the list could I have a motion to approve the amended order of business please moved by

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counselor Gillis seconded by counselor Sanamond all in favor show of hands please and that is approved thank you

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that brings us to the consent agenda there are quite a number of things on consent today I'm just going to go

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through them here for those watching at home first 1512 appointment of the municipal emergency

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management coordinator pursuant to buy law E 100 1513 counselor award HRM 2026-0228 request for

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proposal lease delivery and monitoring of transit tires 1514 MPSA 2025-02020 amendments to the regional

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center secondary municipal planning strategy and regional center land use by law for 1528 Queen Street

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Halifax PID 007 7313 1515 MPS rev 2026-01639 land use regulations for solar collector systems

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1516 proposed amendments to administrative order SC 110 respecting closure of parcels within

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the Cogswell district right of way Cogswell district 1521 update on options for future use of the

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Halifax memorial library site and here I will note my intention to pull that from consent

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and 1522 seniors recreation services plan 2026-2030 1553 regional especially events grants report

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2026 1561 case HRGG 2025-022129 request to include 2319 major street Halifax in the

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registry of heritage properties for the Halifax regional municipality and finally 1571-2026

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lacrosse Canada minor boxed nationalist additional milster grant and with that said I'll go to the board

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and I see Councillor White please thank you Mayor I was also intending to pull off the library

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so 15.2 point once there you go Councillor Hench please I would like to pull off 1561

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and that being the heritage request for a mainord street okay thank you and seeing no other

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names on the list could I have a motion to approve the amended consent agenda I saw some hands up over here

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first it was Councillor Gillis and I moved seconded by Councillor Hartling and this is a digital vote colleagues

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okay so just to keep folks up to date that is Councillor Kent voting in favor without her computer

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Councilors Kent and Councillors Councillor Mancini have both voted in the affirmative.

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The proof consent agenda and colleagues that brings us to item 6, business arising out of the minutes, I don't believe there is any.

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Item 7, call for declarations of conflicts of interest. Oh, Councillor Hennies, please.

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Thank you, much Mr. Mayor. By order of the judges, the Supreme Court of Nova Scotia must declare a conflict in item 12.1.

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So noted, thank you very much, and Councillor Purdy, please.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I also have a conflict with our public hearing tonight. Is it 12.1? Yes, 12.1.

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Okay, the same item as Councillor Councillor.

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Okay, thank you very much for those declarations.

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And the clerk has taken note. Item 8, motions of reconsideration. There are none.

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Item 9, motions of recision. There are none. Item 10, consideration of deferred business. There is none.

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Item 11, notice of table matters. There are none.

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Item 12 is a site plan approval hearing. That is scheduled for 6 p.m. So we'll be coming back to that at that time.

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And that brings us to item 13, correspondence, petitions and delegations. Madam Clerk.

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We have received correspondence for items 15 to 1, 18.1, and 21.1, which has been distributed to members of council.

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Okay, thank you very much for that.

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And then colleagues in accordance with the amended order of business, we will jump ahead to item 15.4.1 Board of Police Commissioners,

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I have 26 annual report and work plan. And so I'll look to see who's in the gallery today.

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Welcome gentlemen, the floor is yours when you'd like to begin.

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Good afternoon. Mayor Fillmore, fellow commissioners and members of council. It's an honor to present the 2526 annual report and the 2627 work plan for the Halifax Board of Police Commissioners.

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Before Mr. Bates provides a detailed walkthrough of our upcoming initiatives for 2627. I'd like to reflect on a year of significant progress and stabilization for policing governance in our municipality.

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The past year has been defined by the successful implementation of the revised police bylaw, which received Minister of approval in March of 2026.

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This milestones clarified the roles and responsibilities between the board, the Commissioner of Public Safety and the municipality, reinforcing the importance of appropriate governance boundaries.

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The stability alongside the leadership of Chief Dawn McLean and Chief Superintendent John Duff has the allowed the board to focus on strengthening our oversight framework.

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We also welcomed Commissioner Brian Carter to the board whose 25 years of RCMP experience is proving invaluable and appointed our first ever administrative assistant Katie Hill to support our mandate.

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A major highlight of the past year was the launch of the Crisis Assistance Response Team, the care team by the community safety business unit provided by funding provided by regional council.

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This community-based trauma informed service provides support for individuals experiencing mental health and substance use to stress and serves as an important alternative to traditional policing responses.

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The board recognizes the value of the care team in enhancing community safety outcomes enabling our officers to focus on core policing responsibilities while ensuring residents have access to well informed support when appropriate.

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Our policy work has remained a top priority.

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We successfully adopted several critical policies this past year, including those governing matters of strategic immediate strategic significance often referred to across the country as a critical point policy.

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An armored rescue vehicle policy, the policing of encampments and as well a more recent policy adoption a new use of force policy, which has an update and that HRP has now released in support of with their own policy.

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Notably, I'm pleased to report that the board has now implemented all the recommendations directed at us from the independent civilian review into the 2021 encampment evictions.

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Furthermore, we launched our first community survey on policing in September of this past year, ensuring that the diverse voices of our residents directly inform our priorities and performance metrics.

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Looking ahead in 2627, our focus shifts toward long-term transformation.

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Our primary objective is the development of a comprehensive strategic plan for policing in Halifax.

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A collaborative effort involving HRP, Halifax regional detachment and the community.

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We will also continue our work on developing and piloting joint police performance metrics for both HRP and HRD reviewing the annual police budgeting process to enhance financial oversight.

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Implementing new policies focused on community engagement and our continued interface with the care team.

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Prioritizing employee experience and psychological safety of our police services.

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And as well, supporting the provinces policing transformation work as this effort begins to take shape.

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Our goal remains to ensure that policing in Halifax is delivered in a way that is transparent, accountable and deeply aligned with the values of our community.

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It's now my pleasure to introduce Mr. Josh Bates, the board's policing policy strategist who will walk you through the details of our 2526 outcomes.

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And the 2627 work plan. And we will both be available for your questions following the presentation. Thank you.

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Thank you, Chair O'Malley and Mayor Philmore and members of Council.

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I'm pleased to be back at Council sharing the significant progress made by the Board of Police Commissioners over the past year under the leadership of both Chair O'Malley and Vice Chair Kent and to give you a little preview of some of the board's activities over the coming year.

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First, as a refresher, establishing a police board is a requirement under the police act for any municipality that has a municipal police service.

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The police act also requires that any municipality that is pleased by the RCMP to establish a police advisory board.

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Because Halifax has a unique policing model, our board plays a dual role.

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It acts as a board of police commissioners for the HRP and is a police advisory board for the RCMP.

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Broadly speaking, the board is responsible for providing civilian governance and oversight of our police services on behalf of regional council.

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Throughout my presentation, I'll talk about what this looks like in practice.

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I'll now provide a brief overview of some of the key events that have impacted the board over the past year building on the chair's introductory remarks.

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Earlier this year, of course, Greg O'Malley was re-elected chair and Becky Kent Vice chair.

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And as the chair mentioned, we're pleased that Commissioner Brian Carter was appointed as the board's provincial appointee last year, which brings the board to its full complement of seven members.

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The past year also saw the release of the province's comprehensive Nova Scotia policing review.

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The review outlines six foundational changes each of which will have a significant impact on the work of the board and will be working closely with the province as these changes are advanced.

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In fact, one of the changes is to broaden the mandate of police boards to provide civilian oversight across a broad spectrum of public safety services.

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And our board has already moved in this direction by inviting Rachel Bome to sit around a board table and provide important updates on the work of her business unit alongside the chief of HRP and the chief superintendent of HRD.

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The last significant activity of highlight, which the chair also mentioned is the approval of her police by law by the Minister of Justice.

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This bylaw was first approved by council on 2024 and creates a more coordinated approach to public safety.

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It also has some implications on the work of the board, including on the budget process, which will be speaking to later.

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So moving on to the board's activities, as always, a significant part of the board's attention was focused on budget related matters, including inviting public participation and considering written submissions, before recommending HRP and HRD budgets to regional council.

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Other activities, other activities include approving several new policies, including one called critical point, which helps ensure the board is appropriately notified of important policing events taking place in the community.

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Another new policies developed were in the areas of policing encampments, armored rescue vehicle and use of force.

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Many of these policies relate to the independent civilian review into the August 18, 2021 encampment evictions, and in September the board received a final formal update related to that review.

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As the Chair mentioned, we're pleased that the board has implemented each of the recommendations in this review directed at the board.

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This past year, the board also adopted, in principle, a set of proposed police performance metrics.

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These metrics will help measure progress towards meeting objectives outlined in the strategic plan and also will help inform the board's budget deliberations.

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Another big item is the community survey on policing, which was launched in September, results from the first two quarters are currently available on the board's main website.

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And regional council has shown leadership and continuing to allocate funding for this important survey, which is being used to inform policy priorities, the police performance metrics, and of course a strategic plan for policing and Halifax, which will speak to you on the next slide.

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And all of this brings us to our current work plan priorities.

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In March, the board held a special meeting to discuss these priorities, six buckets, if you will, emerge from this discussion and those are up on your screen now.

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The first of course is to develop a strategic plan for policing and Halifax, and this process actually began last fiscal year with the appointment of a steering committee.

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The real heavy lifting will take place this year with the formation of a working group, community engagement, the identification of focus areas and the actual delivery of the plan.

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And speaking of community engagement, this is actually one of the areas of policy development, which is the second budget bucket, and we'll be bringing forward a policy on community engagement at our July meeting.

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Other areas of policy development identified by the board for this year are body-worn cameras, which are to be rolled out by HRP by the end of this year.

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And the board will also be bringing forward a body-worn camera policy at our July meeting.

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And other policy areas are sexual assault case review, which would provide a framework for committees reviewing sexual assault case files.

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The last policy priority identified by the board is around collaboration and just a face with the care team, which speaks to that strength and relationship and alignment with community safety that we both referenced earlier.

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The next bucket is to review the annual police services budgeting process, specifically the board is interested in getting a deeper understanding of the implications of the.

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Of the new by-law on the budget process and to explore ways to provide oversight of police related spending currently residing in other business units.

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While also of course, respecting that all budget related matters lie with regional council.

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Next we have integration, which includes actions around endorsing the four pillars in the police transformation study, providing direction on the CID managerial report and formally adopting jointly produced police performance metrics.

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On employee and on employee wellness, the main item is to provide policy direction and oversight issues related raised and various surveys reports on the topic of employee wellness over the last number of years.

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And lastly, on public engagement, we will continue delivering our community surveillance policing, formalizes support framework with corporate communications and begin implementing the engagement activities outlined in our new policy.

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So as you can see, it's been a busy year for the police board and with the development of our strategic plan for policing and Halifax, we expect an even busier year ahead.

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And I'd like to thank you for this opportunity to share this work and the chair and I would be pleased to take your questions. Thank you.

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Thank you both very much for the presentation and we'll go to Councillor Cancel. Cancel please.

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Yes, Mr. Mayor, I think I'll just put the motion on the floor if I could move that the Board of Police Commissioners 202526 annual report and work plan.

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Be received by the regional council received this Board of Police Commission's Halifax Regional Miss Valley 202526 annual report and 202627 work plan for presentation and approval.

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Second by Councillor Cancel. Thank you. I don't really have any questions. I've asked a lot over the last few years. I think what I if I could I just take a moment to thank.

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Bush for the work that he's done as our policy adviser. And really, he's really helping us stay on course as a board to move ahead some significant policy work, the strategic plan and work.

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Things like that, and I just want to acknowledge the support that council gave to make sure that we were able to have that position in place. It has made a huge difference, and we're seeing it now.

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As well, thank you to Greg. Greg's been a great leader and continues to steer us in the right direction. Our board is strong. I feel confident in that.

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As we go forward, I do want to note that the provincial policing review is actually in motion around creating a blueprint for the recommendations that are coming forward.

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I expect that those that kind of blueprint will be released fully within a body year. I, as the Nova Scotia Association of Police Governance, representative for the board, part of a tiger team, and I don't want to explain what that is.

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It's talking a lot of figured out. A group of us that are have the opportunity to see this early and create and give our feedback and insight into developing that particular plan.

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And the province has led this is leading this through Kirk Kamotsky, a former police officer and consultant for many, many years and just as so I think we're in good hands on that in that regard.

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I do also want to acknowledge that our chief.

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The Halifax Regional Detachment John Duff has put in a notice that he will be retiring in his last days will be in July.

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So, Don Mosher is the acting officer in charge now as soon as John is officially gone.

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So for those of us who have our CMP that's a contact that you're going to want to tell, and maybe you could reach out and wish him well in his next journey.

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He will be returning to I think it's Manitoba is it? Yeah, where his family is still living and he's just made the decision based on family.

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He's enjoyed the time that he's had here and I think he's made a difference. He came in with the fluidity of making sure the integration space has been had that the connectivity that the board has although it's an advisory role.

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I think we've had a really good dynamic and engagement with them to actually influence the work that they're doing here, which was very different from the past.

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Jeff Christie had start I think had had really mended a lot of things that we had in that regard around the boards insight and opportunities to make a difference.

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But now John continued and we'll now wait to see who comes along but I have great faith in them.

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So for now I'll leave it there I think that I just want to say how proud I am to work with the people that are on the board and to hack here to be reminded of how much work that we've done.

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I don't know how much time I have to go. To be reminded of the amount of work that we've done and the significance of them.

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And when I think about the number of years that I've been on the board we have had a lot of feedback from public often at budget time around wanting change and wanting better oversight.

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Thank you heard today very clearly that those things are now very well established we we are holding accountable but we're also playing a very supportive role.

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Please are here please are our mandate here at Council and in the city and part of the public safety compliment and so I think that the board is very very strong and proud to be part of that thank you.

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Thank you very much. I don't know if there was any response you wanted to offer there.

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I just wanted to add possibly that chief superintendent John Duff who is retiring that his father was an RCMP officer who was stationed in Nova Scotia which brought him here originally.

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But prior to that his father his grandfather was actually a chief police for the city of Dartmouth.

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So I'll just share that.

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Services in the blood there.

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Councillor Mancini please.

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Thank you Mr. Mayor. You know first of all I want to give Cheryl Malay.

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Big thanks. Cheryl Malay works hard. He puts his every effort into into the work on the police commission.

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I get emails when he's on vacation so his wife you can get the mad at him but he's very focused and we're lucky and thank you for your leadership.

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There's lots of heavy lifting on this committee for sure and so I appreciate your leadership.

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Lots of great work. Lots of heavy lifting you know police oversight was what we're all about.

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Some may say we're just cheerleader's a police.

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If you ever attend any of our meetings we challenge when challenges need it.

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We ask tough questions and that's the role of the Board of Police Commission.

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So I'm very happy and very proud to work with the strong team.

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Acknowledgement to Josh also Josh Mates who leads our policy work, Mr. Mayor.

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In a couple of areas that I'm pretty interested in and some good work right now as Josh mentioned the focus on body-worn cameras,

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which is cancel that support it and that's coming out soon but we need strong policy and look at police forces across the country that have body-worn cameras,

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which is most what is key as strong policy and Josh is leading that.

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And also another item that I'm very focused on is the sexual assault case review which Josh is doing that work also.

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Our focus is 2027 to items like colleagues I wanted to bring to your attention that we're working on constantly working on.

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We're always talking about intimate part violence and gender-based violence.

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Almost at every meeting we have we either have presenters or conversations about that.

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There is a crisis in our community and it's important that the police continue to focus on that and they are and that's our job.

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We have all the Board of Police Commission to make sure they continue to focus and they do.

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Our care team updates we get from Bill Bore and his team.

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It's just showing amazing work by that care team and how it's making sure that police aren't the first response when someone's in mental crisis.

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The care teams that go doing that work and doing great work and we get updates on that at every meeting and finally to my colleagues here.

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Many of you have community meetings and if it's related to policing I encourage you to invite the Board of Police Commission to attend.

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Cheryl Malay go try to go if not somebody else will go.

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Think it's really important that the Board of Police Commission here what's going on in your community and they can relay that to our meetings at the Board of Police Commission.

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So if you're having a community meeting and has anything to do with policing please send out an invitation for somebody from the Board to attend.

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I'm sure that Cheryl Malay will cut and if he can't go one of us will go I think it's important to board here.

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So just want to say thanks to everybody I appreciate that support Mr. Mayor.

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Thank you very much Councillor. Excuse me, Councillor Manzini and we'll move to Councillor Hench please.

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Yeah, I do.

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Thank you Mr. Mayor.

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Well after all that Councillor Manzini and Councillor Ken has said there's not much more to say but I do want to thank.

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Cheryl Malay for all that he does because you know you made it possible and and you made it.

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How can I say you made it so that I feel like I'm I'm a part of the process and and things of that you know because I I still didn't understand you know some of the things that we're going on but I'm learning as I go and I'm going to continue to learn and I thank you guys for that.

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This board is an amazing board and I say that because I feel the you know the sensitivity the love the respect from all board members and I you know it's amazing Josh you do great great work and I thank you for all that you do as well.

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So pretty much what was said is is how I feel and thank you guys very much.

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Thank you Mr. Mayor and thank you Greg and Josh for your presentation today I appreciate you being here.

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I have a few questions I know there's work being done on performance metrics just curious how that is how that is rolling out and maybe I'll put all my questions out there.

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I'm also always very interested in integration and how the integration between.

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Halifax police the RCMP and also our community safety team is working.

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We're hoping to see broad community benefits from integration improvements.

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And with policing overall that residents can see a mark difference and of course improvements for human resources working in the area so curious about about how the integration is working.

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And then my final question you mentioned public engagement I know there's a survey I've been promoting it in my newsletter but I'm curious about what other public engagement pieces you're doing I.

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And not necessarily informed on that so those are my three questions thank you.

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Bill asks Mr. Bates to comment on the new policing performance metrics and we're at with the adoption of those because that is a.

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And completely new set of metrics that we haven't captured in the past and so I want to share a comment there Josh.

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Yes, thank you counselor for the question so the board adopted in principle a set of police performance metrics in February so there's a report I'd be happy to send you.

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The metrics are based on a national framework so there's actually six buckets and their metrics in various areas and what we at what the board did was they asked the two police services to go out and look at the feasibility of collecting this information.

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The information will be widely available some of them they might have to integrate and I know commissioner will be speaking to that next.

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But we wanted to delay the formal adoption because it's it's of course important that the performance metrics adopt progress made towards the strategic plan.

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So we have provisional metrics we're going to look at the plan and we're going to make sure that the metrics match up with the plan.

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Okay, so that's why it says in principle okay.

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Yeah, okay, so we will see some results of these metrics at some point directly or indirectly perhaps.

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Yes, following the adoption of the strategic plan and and the the provisional metrics the metrics adopted in principle are publicly available.

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Okay, okay, thank you.

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We will move to the third question and then we'll go back to the transformation commission question now the commissioner more is come forward, but let's address the engagement so.

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In terms of engagement we we rely as commissioner council remains any set hearing about all of the community engagement that the individual counselors do so we can go and participate.

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HRD has been very good about going out into their communities and organizing yearly updates and we're also doing a broad engagement plan in association with the strategic planning process.

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But as well we're creating a new engagement policy which we really haven't had in the past so maybe I could just ask Josh to comment on where we're up with that policy creation.

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Thank you chair and thanks again for the question so so there is the community engagement policy that we're targeting to go forward at our July meeting and we're looking at a number of things so so one is HRD already does a lot of engagement HRP does engagement to.

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So one of the things that's put forth an policy again not yet adopted but we counsel has community engagement plan to be want to make sure that when the police and when the board does engagement we follow that plan.

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So there's an element one important element of that plan is producing what we heard reports which currently isn't happening so there might be great engagement happening in fact I know there is but that information is not necessarily getting back to the board so we want to make sure the board has that you know has those reports so we know what was set.

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We're looking forward is around a community round table and policing again not yet adopted but making sure that we had all of the key stakeholders in the community because when you go out and invite people to come speak to the board which we do around the budget.

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We hear from people who are very very in favor of what the police are doing and people who might be very very opposed most people probably live somewhere in between so we want to make sure that we hear from a broad spectrum of voices.

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So the policy that we're putting forward has some ideas around how we can make sure we hear from that broad spectrum.

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Okay, I particularly appreciate though what we heard reports that sounds very useful and for the future.

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To what Councillor Menseini said that and he's been a very very strong advocate for this as long with our other two commissioners.

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Every meeting we bring in and invite groups in the community and it's largely been around you know community based or gender based violence in a partner violence.

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We're in July having an alternate sexual assault case review model presented there will start to hear feedback of how it's done in other jurisdictions across country so again every meeting we're engaging with public and we intentionally and go out proactively to invite groups in.

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Maybe I'll turn it over to commissioner more the topic of transformation is always very prevalent in all of our discussions and he can speak to that topic.

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Great.

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Mr. Mayor members council bill more commissioner public safety.

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Our integration efforts are starting to to move forward over the last year and the reporting to the board.

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I would say prior to that we received very separate presentations but we've now under the direction of the board both HRP and HRD are combining their information and presenting together to provide an overall picture.

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In addition, we have just completed actually I met with both the chief and senior staff of HRD yesterday.

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We just finished a multi month integrated criminal investigation division manager review.

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I think it's safe to say that the integrated criminal investigation division is probably the flagship of integration.

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If anybody has ever visited the offices there HRP and HRD members are working side by side on some of the most serious crimes that are happening in HRM.

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That model had not been looked at really deeply in the 20 years since it started so that report was presented to both leadership team yesterday and we're just working.

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We're looking now through an action plan, and that will be coming back both to the board and to council. Once we have some more information, and we think that there are some concrete pieces that we can look at in there to strengthen not only the integrated criminal investigations, but use it as the building blocks for further integration, because of the experience that we've had there.

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Please to say that both agencies have embraced integration, and we're looking now practically on on how we move some of those items forward.

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That is in concert as well as mentioned with the provincial policing review. Those six areas at the provinces are working on interact with various parts of it.

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So all those pieces are coming together, and I'm hoping they will all inform the strategic plan that's coming this year for an HRM policing strategic plan, an overarching plan that would include input from both HRP and the RCMP.

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In addition, the work being done of the public safety office, so the public safety strategy will be renewed coming up this year, and through the work in Rachel's office and through my office, we're starting to see those items starting to move together in a much more comprehensive fashion as opposed to being separate plans.

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Will they be all will we have just one plan this year? No, I don't think so, but I think after this cycle of strategic planning sessions down the council has done there's a strategic planning work, the board will do theirs.

366
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:40,000
The new strategic I'm sorry the next public safety plan that will set us up well for a much more comprehensive approach to public safety across the board.

367
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:45,000
Okay, thank you. I'm over time, I know.

368
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:49,000
Thank you very much and we'll move on to the deputy mayor, please.

369
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:52,000
Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

370
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:58,000
Yeah, and thank you for this opportunity to talk about the work of the Board of Police Commissioners.

371
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:04,000
Thank you to the commissioners, as well as those that are councillors that sit on the Board of Police Commissioners.

372
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:12,000
You know, I know this kind of work is extra lift for you for everyone and appreciate the effort.

373
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:24,000
You know, I do think, you know, the question about being impartial there is an important one because I do think that bias can be created.

374
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:29,000
The cheerleader comment I think is an important one to discuss.

375
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:34,000
Because this is the work of this commission is critically important.

376
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:48,000
It is our civilian oversight body and it's really about ensuring public accountability, transparency and the good spending of the public spending of tax dollars on our police force.

377
01:02:48,000 --> 01:03:00,000
We always need to keep that front of mind and as a council, we have so few opportunities to interact with with with HRP and our CMP from a governance perspective.

378
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:05,000
So just even having this opportunity is an important one for us.

379
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:13,000
I, I do have questions about the police performance metrics.

380
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:18,000
You know, in particular, you know, I think you mentioned that there was a bit a national framework that's being used.

381
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:31,000
But I was wondering if there were metrics specific to some of the issues and challenges unique to Halifax and you know, one of the priorities of council has been around road safety.

382
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:37,000
You know, I think we've had some better reporting back about you know incidents.

383
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,000
And we've had in the past and that's really that's a really positive move.

384
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:51,000
But how will items like that be included in the in the performance metrics service delivery.

385
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:59,000
Another one they can see management are these things that are going to start to be tracked because from our perspective on council.

386
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:01,000
They can often feel elusive.

387
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:09,000
We talk about it year over year over year over year, but we're not necessarily seeing the traction in the police force.

388
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:15,000
So, you know, those are metrics that I'd be interested in when it comes to budget time.

389
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:23,000
Because we're constantly asked for resources, but we're not necessarily seeing the impact those resources are having on the ground.

390
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:31,000
So that's and I had just one other comment before I'll hand the mic over to you.

391
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:34,000
I'm seeing the rate or respond which is great.

392
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:42,000
Just a change of leadership in the RCMP is unfortunate that that that we're losing another leader there.

393
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:52,000
I think we've had I don't know four five in the last ten years and I think the current chief of the RCMP there.

394
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,000
It's only appointed in November.

395
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,000
Is that correct?

396
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,000
Recently.

397
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:00,000
Yeah.

398
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,000
Over year ago.

399
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:02,000
Was it over year ago?

400
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:03,000
Okay.

401
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,000
So it's just over year ago, but that's not very long in terms of tenure.

402
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:11,000
And so I do worry about succession planning and how does the.

403
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:19,000
And I know the RCMP is a little different than HRP, but does the board have any.

404
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:30,000
The ability to work with the RCMP to ensure that there's clear succession planning because we have a you know the the turnover and at the top.

405
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:40,000
I'm wondering know how how able are we to continue to make progress on on key on key issues locally.

406
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,000
Thank you for your questions.

407
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:46,000
I guess the first one I'll start with is around the performance metrics.

408
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:57,000
Although it is a national standard that we used from other jurisdictions to we made it Halifax specific and so again it's we just approved in principle.

409
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:02,000
And it will become more informed throughout the strategic planning process as we define the defender.

410
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:09,000
The pillars and the objectives of the strategic plan that'll then be supported by how we're going to measure progress on those.

411
01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:13,000
Maybe I could ask Mr. Bates to provide some additional input on that question.

412
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,000
Yeah, thank you.

413
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:26,000
And this is where the performance metrics and the community survey actually meet right so we we have the community survey on policing and one of the questions is around police priorities and traffic safety is one of those priorities so.

414
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:31,000
Seeing that we added a metric around traffic safety to the performance metrics.

415
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:36,000
You also mentioned they can see management that's another metric that that we have.

416
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:54,000
That's a really important one because when you think of police performance metrics a lot of the things like crime severity index well the police don't have a great deal of control over that but they can see management that is something that the police services have a greater degree of control so there's a range of metrics that are included and what was adopted.

417
01:06:54,000 --> 01:07:05,000
Comment on the about vacancy management so in terms of HRP which we have control over in terms of the the number of resources.

418
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:12,000
They have had a number of vacancies that they've been actively working by building up their own capacity to train.

419
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:22,000
And so last year they had 22 I believe new graduates this year in this July I think it's the July 16th or 18th I can't remember the exact date.

420
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:39,000
They'll be graduating 38 so you know very much building up capacity to ensure that the communities are fully staffed by train public safety resources and then for the RCMP in terms of succession planning.

421
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:54,000
I know there's a very you know the type of role in the in the the leadership teams there is very strong it's a very strong leadership team and the chief superintendent those resources get identified and and.

422
01:07:54,000 --> 01:08:05,000
And then they're presented to the municipality to receive input in terms of final selection maybe I could ask commissioner more to come on comment further on that.

423
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,000
Thank you chair Malie.

424
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:18,000
Mayor through the counselor yes so the when chief superintendent the deaf was selected I actually sat on the section committee with the commanding officer of Nova Scotia Dennis daily.

425
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:23,000
The head had previously served in the Halifax district for a long time so we knew the area.

426
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:30,000
I'm actually in the process of trying to get a sit down with the new commanding officer who had met before I know.

427
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:35,000
And just to make sure as we move forward that HM as a strong voice in this election process I think.

428
01:08:35,000 --> 01:08:50,000
I think it's fair to say that each division clearly understands that the support they provide to HRM is is different than some other places because of the model that's here and so we're actively involved in those discussions right now then I'm pleased to say that we.

429
01:08:50,000 --> 01:09:00,000
That we do have a superintendent Mosher in place who has been here in HRM for a long time for with both agencies so we we have some consistency and some.

430
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:06,000
Some ability to continue on and we're working right now on that process and if I could just touch on the road safety.

431
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:14,000
You said you had mentioned council would recall that in the strategic plan the council approved your circuit plan one of the deliverables was including.

432
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:26,000
HRP more deeply in the road safety piece and the other part I would say council recalls this I I owe you a bit of a report coming back on vehicle noise and we've been trying to what have been trying to do.

433
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:34,000
We vehicle noise issues into the road safety plan so we don't end with multiple plans so I've had some meetings with HRP our CNP.

434
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:41,000
I'm waiting to meet with the traffic people in the province to to work on that so that will be coming back as well.

435
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:53,000
So you counsel should be seeing in the reports on on your progress on strategic plan you should see it in the reports coming from the board of police commissioners so we're going to try to give you more information on those more lucid things.

436
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,000
All right, thank you.

437
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:00,000
Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

438
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,000
Thank you very much and on to council. Thank you again, please.

439
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:17,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you for the presentation and the information and really good report here and you know I would also say to chair O'Malley.

440
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:28,000
It is wonderful to see the commitment that you have to the position that you hold and to see you come to middle musket orbit to see you come to carols corner see you come out to fall river.

441
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:46,000
We have not seen that before or not in my time anyway may have happened before me, but just my compliments because it does say something to the community that they are seeing and that they are valued in how the policing is reviewed in all of HRM. So thank you for that.

442
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:51,000
Thank you.

443
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:54,000
Okay, you got your turn next.

444
01:10:54,000 --> 01:11:11,000
In the work plan I do have a little bit of a concern about you know the development of the strategic plan because we're talking about forming a steering committee and then also talking about a working group and you know the commission is very busy people.

445
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:27,000
And so I'm worried about a little bit about the capacity to deliver on this is an ambitious plan, you know if you read between the lines and you're trying to figure out this is a lot of work and I do know at one point it says to figure out if there's capacity.

446
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:34,000
I'm trying to remember where it was but if more resources are needed and I think that's something in Q2 that you're going to look at.

447
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:43,000
But do you feel that you have the capacity with the current configuration with just one staff and where we're.

448
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:47,000
Definitely getting the support of commissioner Moore's office.

449
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:52,000
Yeah, quite heavily actually so in terms of the steering committee.

450
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:59,000
Councilor Mensini is our delegate from the board to represent that along with the chiefs and commissioner Moore.

451
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:04,000
And then a working group will is actively working on it. Josh base is working on it.

452
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:14,000
Cathy Colette, there'll be a variety of people so I think so far, you know it'll be internally driven and staff will play a critical role in helping formulate it with this well communication.

453
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:22,000
Help me do engagement sessions with the community groups that are identified by the steering group and so I hope so.

454
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:30,000
So is there a way to identify within the work plan who is on the steering committee and who is on the working group.

455
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,000
Yes, we can do some follow up information on that.

456
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:36,000
Great. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

457
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:37,000
Thank you.

458
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:47,000
Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Thank you so much for coming in today. I really appreciate your time and for the presentation.

459
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:50,000
My question is about theft and retail theft.

460
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,000
We hear quite a lot about that at budget time.

461
01:12:53,000 --> 01:13:02,000
I noticed that I didn't I didn't see it anywhere in the work plan or the strategic plan and I also didn't see it and perhaps because the list is not exhaustive.

462
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:13,000
You know community outreach to things like the downtown Halifax business commission or you know other other business organizations inside of HRM.

463
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:23,000
I'm just wondering can you speak to whether that is you know how that is being prioritized or addressed inside of inside of this. I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

464
01:13:23,000 --> 01:13:28,000
Thank you. I guess that it would be a kind of a multi threaded answer there.

465
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:34,000
One comment would be is we hear frequently engage with those groups who can then present on that.

466
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:41,000
We don't tend to get involved in you know we're prohibitive from getting involved in the operations of policing activity and where they spend resource time.

467
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:42,000
Absolutely.

468
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:54,000
And so can't really comment on that if the chief was here he would be able to do that but I know that they've conducted a number of proactive efforts in that area without without him here would be inappropriate.

469
01:13:54,000 --> 01:14:07,000
I think to comment any further on that in terms of the engagement of those parties though like for example we we've been without a strategic plan for for policing for over 10 years.

470
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:12,000
And so it's now time and we're doing a much shorter window for that plan.

471
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:23,000
So as a result it'll be much more specific and those groups will it all likelihood be consulted as one of the stakeholder groups that we engage with during these strategic planning processes.

472
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:29,000
And so that'll be a way that will be bringing in their concerns into that process. Does that help?

473
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:35,000
Yeah. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

474
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,000
I think to that.

475
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:40,000
Thank you chair.

476
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:52,000
I guess what I would say is that we we I know that there has been ongoing discussion for the for instance the retail association of and there's been some both proactive end and reactive work being done in that space.

477
01:14:52,000 --> 01:15:00,000
I think there's also some legislation that's that has recently passed around that they'll reform and the like that that may have some impact as well.

478
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:13,000
But I would really defer on the operational side to the chief on those pieces, but there is an open dialogue, and there is certainly a recognition that there is some work that needs to be done in that space.

479
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:16,000
Thank you, and we'll move to Councillor Kent, please.

480
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:29,000
Yes, thank you. I'm going to call the question very quickly here, but I do want to take the time with Bill at the presentation table to acknowledge the tremendous contribution that his team is

481
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:43,000
is really embraced with the Board of Police Commission. It is a new model. It is a model as well that the province is considering coming out of the police review.

482
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:53,000
And we know that they're modeling that after Halifax Regional Miss Paladies space around that and asking for other.

483
01:15:53,000 --> 01:16:04,000
I think other municipalities to follow suit with that kind of community safety and public safety space within the municipal units.

484
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:15,000
But the contribution that is made, particularly around new response models is that one of the most exciting opportunities this board has.

485
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:24,000
There has been some significant work already. We do have a couple of, in care is one, and there was some more work being done on another space.

486
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:43,000
But this, this is, I think, is very forward-facing and is a message as well to our public. I think Councillor Steele mentioned what has happened here around within the board to that they can say to their constituents that is changed.

487
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:58,000
Well, this one, this is a very significant change. And there is a lot of synergy, a lot of interplay, a lot of integration with not just our two police forces, but with our safety folks in our community safety folks.

488
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:09,000
So that in itself has so many opportunities to bear fruit and and move in a direction that we know that the public has been asking for and it's not just here in Halifax.

489
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:24,000
It's across the country where new police models not only to create a different environment for responding to very complex scenarios and ones that don't necessarily need a police officer, but it's also helping to.

490
01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:38,000
I'd revert back to where police officers can really focus on their core policing responsibilities. So I'll leave it there and there's no one else I'll call the question.

491
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:53,000
The question has been called.

492
01:17:53,000 --> 01:18:03,000
And the motion carries. Thank you very much chair. Thank you very much to the public safety team. Nice to see everybody and very great for your work.

493
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:17,000
And colleagues with this will resume the agenda where we where we left off. I hurried past item 13.2 petition. So I just want to make sure that no one had a petition they wanted to table today. I don't see any great.

494
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:33,000
Then we'll resume the agenda at item 1511, which is second reading of proposed by you 120 and amendment to by law you 100 respecting user charges. Ice rental rate increases.

495
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:38,000
Would someone like to put the motion on the floor please.

496
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:43,000
Councillor Steele please.

497
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:49,000
I move that Halifax regional council adopt by law you 120.

498
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:59,000
Amending by law you 100. The user charges by law as settled in attachment A of the staff report date at May 19, 2026.

499
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:03,000
Seconded by council or pretty.

500
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:08,000
And I'm not seeing any discussion questions been called.

501
01:19:08,000 --> 01:19:30,000
And the motion carries. Thank you very much colleagues. Then we're going to skip over a number of items that have been passed on consent.

502
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:41,000
And if my reading the agenda is correct that brings us to item 1521 and update on options for future use of the Halifax memorial sites.

503
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:54,000
And I note that both Councillor White and I wanted to take this off of consent and I will give the floor to Councillor White.

504
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:59,000
Okay, thank you Mayor. I'll read the motion.

505
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:11,000
That Halifax regional council discontinue the work on a plan for memorial. I have a very site that was directed in items two and three of the July 9, 2024 motion item number 15.155.

506
01:20:11,000 --> 01:20:18,000
And to direct the CAO to investigate new potential opportunities for the reuse of memorial library.

507
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:28,000
And return to council with every port outlining those potential uses for its consideration.

508
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:30,000
Okay.

509
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:43,000
Yes, library. So I do have a kind of a clarifying amendment to put on for the second one, but I'll just talk a little bit about the last year or so with the library.

510
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:53,000
So yes, I heard about a year ago from local people and someone in Toronto really interested in an adaptive reuse just heritage in general.

511
01:20:53,000 --> 01:21:09,000
So I've heard from from that person, I've heard from the Heritage Trust of Nova Scotia heard from the downtown business commission and then the group formed the friends and memorial library that there's interest in adaptive reuse for the building.

512
01:21:09,000 --> 01:21:22,000
I also have heard from other people that are more interested in what was decided before and moving forward with a park. So it's not super clear what what the general public is looking for here.

513
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:31,000
Two things in talking to staff over the year like two things we've never done are general survey to see what the public thinks and wants.

514
01:21:31,000 --> 01:21:44,000
And then a call out for adaptive reuse we haven't done either of those so I think it's good that we are this motion is looking at doing adaptive reuse.

515
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:53,000
Yeah, let me see what else did I want to mention.

516
01:21:54,000 --> 01:22:00,000
I think I think that's all I need to mention here and I'll let you know the the amendment I was looking for.

517
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:12,000
Okay, I'll read it out and then I'll send it to Chris that just so this same language but.

518
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:30,000
The CIO to investigate the new potential opportunities for the adaptive reuse of the memorial library through a time limited expression of interest or similar mechanism and returned to council with a report outlining those potential uses including proposed funding mechanisms for its consideration.

519
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:36,000
Yeah, so I was just looking to be a little more clear of what we're trying to do that we should put a bit of a time limit on this.

520
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:47,000
I'm especially interested in that we really do want to hear about the financials and not just ideas because I think ten years went into ideas that didn't work out so we're really looking for.

521
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:51,000
Clear proposals so I welcome to hear your thoughts.

522
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:58,000
So there are some names on the list I wonder colleagues as I did say both.

523
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:04,000
Councilor White and I wanted to take this off consent if you would allow me to be heard before we go into the barter debate.

524
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:10,000
Thank you, I see some nodding heads I appreciate that very much and which case I need to leave the chair and.

525
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:16,000
I'm going to step maybe step into council I guess I just didn't do your spot deputy mayor.

526
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:17,000
Thank you.

527
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,000
Thank you.

528
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:13,000
There we go thank you.

529
01:24:13,000 --> 01:24:27,000
Yeah, councilor White and I had some heard discussion before we got underway here and we are largely aligned on on our position on on the matter of the memorial library.

530
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:37,000
What the way that I see count the the CPAD motion the staff recommendation that drives from the deputy mayor's motion in CPAD.

531
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:50,000
Is that it it abandoned the council direction previous council direction to work on a park design and focuses instead on adaptive reuse of the structure.

532
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:58,000
But without any guidance on the financial implications or what what an acceptable financial arrangement might look like.

533
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:13,000
So what what I would like to get to today with your help I hope is a path that allows us to continue the important work on redesigning park space regardless of what happens to the library building.

534
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:26,000
That's still a vibrant spot in our downtown and as we know more people are living downtown we need more park space so rather than it just let it let it be a grassy place to actually proceed with consultation and.

535
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:29,000
Design works to make it to make a beautiful new urban park there.

536
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:39,000
But my approach would also be to put some parameters around the adaptive reuse agreeing with counselor whites time limitation I think that's really important so that we're not just.

537
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:52,000
My as we were 12 years into this now so we're not mired in more more years we can we can let the time the time clock expire move forward I would agree with that but I would say we should also put some parameters around what a.

538
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:58,000
An acceptable financial arrangement looks like my first position was and I softened it my first position was.

539
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:09,000
We shouldn't proceed within adaptive reuse unless we find a partner who can carry 100% of the cost of the of the remediation of the building which is expected to be around 20 million 15 to 20 million dollars.

540
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:17,000
I understand that's a pretty hard line and so I would propose more like a maybe 75% but if we just say something like.

541
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:30,000
All or most it's a mushy question we don't have clarity and I think I believe the staff would appreciate having some specific clarity to know whether yes or no benchmark has been that so.

542
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:36,000
I would love to see this be 75% of the of the cost of remediation.

543
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:47,000
Unfortunately as amended or as the proposed amendment reads it doesn't get us there it's still silent on proceeding with the park the park design.

544
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:57,000
And it's I think it's important that we proceed with a park design as well because otherwise we're just creating a situation where we're going to have to come back to council again and the wheels will continue to turn and more years will pass.

545
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:11,000
We do have an opportunity today to give council direction on what a financial deal looks like for the reuse and direction to proceed with consultation and design on the park and we can actually move this thing forward turn this project into.

546
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:29,000
And the last point would be that on the time clock that Councillor White is introduced and perhaps if we can get to it the 75% of cost recovery that I've gotten to if we don't find a proponent to do that within the within the a lot of time that we should also be specific about.

547
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:40,000
Then what will be indicated would be to raise the public library and convert the entire site to a public park in which case the park planning is already underway and just can just proceed.

548
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:45,000
So those are that that's the difference between the amended motion and what I would propose.

549
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:54,000
So I guess what I'm asking even on speaking on the amendments is and I will vote for the amendment but I'm going to ask that we actually defeat the main motion.

550
01:27:54,000 --> 01:28:02,000
And approve a motion that I've prepared that achieved those those outcomes to move the project forward into reality much much faster.

551
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,000
So that's my piece today.

552
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:06,000
Thank you.

553
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:29,000
Madam chair so what I'm hearing the mayor suggest is that he's he's that the amendment is acceptable but he would still be urging the members to defeat the motion.

554
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:39,000
If it is amended and he has a proposal for for an alternative motion so if you wish to speak to the amendment then certainly I think the mayor should retake the chair.

555
01:28:39,000 --> 01:29:05,000
Okay so on the amendment and the floor is the deputy mayor.

556
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:09,000
Okay thank you.

557
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:31,000
So I was I'm interested in supporting the amendment as it's presented I think when we're doing a call for proposals about the building the land around the building becomes part of that and I think the opportunity to look at the site of as a whole is lost if we start proceeding on a park design.

558
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:41,000
Without really having an opportunity to look at what comes back from the community through a call for proposals they idea for call for proposals is that.

559
01:29:41,000 --> 01:29:55,000
You know we get all kinds of ideas so if we go out to the public right now and say what do you want to see with the site we're going to get all kinds of ideas that are going to be feasible some will be pie in the sky and never attainable.

560
01:29:55,000 --> 01:30:00,000
You know there's no constraints around that by doing a.

561
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:06,740
Call for proposal, what I was hoping for is that staff would come back with a call for proposal program that

562
01:30:06,740 --> 01:30:12,900
did have some criteria, sets and parameters around the site, that could include the option of

563
01:30:12,900 --> 01:30:21,940
looking at costing ownership, whether it's the building, the site is a whole, but that right now by

564
01:30:21,940 --> 01:30:30,940
constraining that, I think we lose an opportunity to really explore what's possible there.

565
01:30:30,940 --> 01:30:36,940
So, call for proposals, I don't know how familiar council is with this process, but it's a

566
01:30:36,940 --> 01:30:44,940
common process that's used in significant sites and cities and places around the world, where as

567
01:30:44,940 --> 01:30:49,940
particularly once that have high interest. And we know that there's been high amount of interest

568
01:30:49,940 --> 01:30:56,940
about the future of the site. And I think it could be exciting just to proceed with the call for

569
01:30:56,940 --> 01:31:02,940
proposals, put a time limit on it, staff, of course, when you have, when they put out a call for

570
01:31:02,940 --> 01:31:08,940
proposals, it needs those parameters. We can discuss that, but I'd be concerned if we're giving

571
01:31:08,940 --> 01:31:14,940
direction to do that at the same time as proceed with a park plan that could be focused on what

572
01:31:15,940 --> 01:31:22,940
happens if the building is demolished, it doesn't really give true weight to what we're

573
01:31:22,940 --> 01:31:30,940
asking for in the call for proposals. So, I'm a bit confused by that process. So, I think,

574
01:31:30,940 --> 01:31:39,940
you know, the motion as amended right now is a good way to proceed.

575
01:31:39,940 --> 01:31:48,940
I, yeah, and I'll, I'll just, I'll leave it, I'll leave it at that. The one piece though about

576
01:31:48,940 --> 01:31:55,940
the adaptive reuse, you know, I think that that needs to be broad and I don't know what councilor

577
01:31:55,940 --> 01:32:01,940
white had in mind with adaptive reuse, because there's always you could, all different kinds of ways

578
01:32:01,940 --> 01:32:08,940
you can reuse the building, but I think what I hope is intended and maybe you can speak to this is that

579
01:32:08,940 --> 01:32:16,940
the adaptive reuse isn't restrictive and that, that it needs to be, you know, a functional building.

580
01:32:16,940 --> 01:32:23,940
I mean, it could be perhaps, you know, keeping elements of the building, you know, the main

581
01:32:23,940 --> 01:32:32,940
intent being that this is a historic building. It has historic significance, somehow retaining the, the

582
01:32:32,940 --> 01:32:39,940
the meaning and, and some function of the, of the, of the actual structure in the proposed design.

583
01:32:39,940 --> 01:32:47,940
So, you know, I think adaptive reuse might not be exactly clear in its intent either.

584
01:32:47,940 --> 01:32:53,940
So, I would ask to councilor white around her intention there. Thank you.

585
01:32:53,940 --> 01:32:57,940
Thank you very much. Excuse me, councilor Austin, please.

586
01:32:57,940 --> 01:33:02,940
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, I'm in support of councilor white's motion here.

587
01:33:02,940 --> 01:33:07,940
I think it gets us to where we need to be on this.

588
01:33:07,940 --> 01:33:12,940
I appreciate that the mayor would prefer to see the park planning process continue.

589
01:33:12,940 --> 01:33:21,940
However, I don't see how, I don't see why we would continue a park plan if we're potentially pausing and accepting proposals

590
01:33:21,940 --> 01:33:28,940
to, that could keep the building. Like, how do you do a park plan for a site if you're, if you don't know if half of it's going to be a building

591
01:33:28,940 --> 01:33:36,940
or, you know, something else. So, I think if we're going to go down this route to pause for like six months to go out there

592
01:33:36,940 --> 01:33:42,940
and see what the interest might be is reasonable.

593
01:33:42,940 --> 01:33:48,940
Given the circumstances, because otherwise, you know, we could do a whole bunch of work on a park plan that then is useless

594
01:33:49,940 --> 01:33:53,940
because we're keeping a building on site rather than, you know, changing that up.

595
01:33:53,940 --> 01:33:58,940
So, I think councilor white gets us to where we need to go.

596
01:33:58,940 --> 01:34:06,940
The kind of financial piece I agree with the mayor on, I have concerns about that.

597
01:34:06,940 --> 01:34:10,940
This building has been vacant for a while.

598
01:34:11,940 --> 01:34:18,940
We went pretty far down the road with Dal back in the day, but they weren't the only one.

599
01:34:18,940 --> 01:34:24,940
Everybody who's looked at this runs away once they get into the particulars because it's really expensive.

600
01:34:24,940 --> 01:34:28,940
It's complex and, you know, to boot it sitting on a mass grave.

601
01:34:28,940 --> 01:34:36,940
So, this is not an easy site and everyone who looks at it is said, no thanks, you're on your own nature.

602
01:34:36,940 --> 01:34:40,940
I personally don't think that's going to change.

603
01:34:40,940 --> 01:34:44,940
I don't think that there's some magic solution here waiting in the wings.

604
01:34:44,940 --> 01:34:50,940
And I myself, when we're looking at things like form, police headquarters, transit.

605
01:34:50,940 --> 01:34:56,940
I mean, we just went through a budget cycle where we were saying, are we one or two million away from our debt ceiling?

606
01:34:56,940 --> 01:35:00,940
Like, we don't have the money to do this as a municipal project, right?

607
01:35:00,940 --> 01:35:05,940
There's all sorts of great things we can imagine in the space, but we don't have the money.

608
01:35:05,940 --> 01:35:06,940
We had the money.

609
01:35:06,940 --> 01:35:14,940
There's a building a block away in the same area that has got an actual community group and proposal and plans already to go.

610
01:35:14,940 --> 01:35:20,940
If we were going to spend a bunch of money on a building downtown, the Kyver would be a better bet than this.

611
01:35:20,940 --> 01:35:30,940
So, you know, the value I think in going back out at this point is, I don't think we can agree with staff.

612
01:35:30,940 --> 01:35:37,940
I think we can have a consultation at this stage without trying one last time is a general ask to everybody.

613
01:35:37,940 --> 01:35:40,940
You have some idea for this building.

614
01:35:40,940 --> 01:35:49,940
I don't think our consultation if we're going to go out and try and talk to people about a park plan that may include the facade or none of the building is going to be successful.

615
01:35:49,940 --> 01:35:51,940
So, I think we have to do this last step.

616
01:35:51,940 --> 01:35:55,940
And if it comes back and there's some miracle out there.

617
01:35:55,940 --> 01:36:02,940
If there's not, I think it then helps us move on with the actual park plan for what I suspect is actually feasible here.

618
01:36:02,940 --> 01:36:05,940
So, I think Councillor White's motion is good.

619
01:36:05,940 --> 01:36:06,940
Thank you.

620
01:36:06,940 --> 01:36:07,940
Thank you.

621
01:36:07,940 --> 01:36:09,940
Councillor Steele, please.

622
01:36:09,940 --> 01:36:11,940
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

623
01:36:11,940 --> 01:36:16,940
I too think Councillor White's amendment to the motion or motion.

624
01:36:16,940 --> 01:36:21,940
Now, however we're playing this is very good.

625
01:36:21,940 --> 01:36:28,940
I think it's a bit more specific and it means we'll get back a bit more of a specific recommendation.

626
01:36:28,940 --> 01:36:34,940
I also really like the mayor's idea about limiting our financial exposure on this.

627
01:36:34,940 --> 01:36:42,940
So, I guess I'm wondering if we could build in something about a minimum amount of funding coming.

628
01:36:42,940 --> 01:36:47,940
I'm in a minimum amount or a percent that could come from elsewhere on this.

629
01:36:47,940 --> 01:36:55,940
You know, thinking of our many other capital projects that we have that have already been put on a priority list.

630
01:36:55,940 --> 01:36:57,940
So, I don't know.

631
01:36:57,940 --> 01:37:00,940
The mayor suggested 75 percent.

632
01:37:00,940 --> 01:37:03,940
I don't know if that's if we'd want to put that number in.

633
01:37:03,940 --> 01:37:11,940
I appreciate Deputy Mayor Cuddles, perhaps views that maybe we don't want to limit.

634
01:37:11,940 --> 01:37:16,940
Opposals, but on the other hand, recognizing our fiscal realities.

635
01:37:16,940 --> 01:37:19,940
Perhaps we could bake in a number.

636
01:37:19,940 --> 01:37:22,940
So, I wonder if that might be possible.

637
01:37:22,940 --> 01:37:23,940
Thanks.

638
01:37:23,940 --> 01:37:28,940
Thank you very much, Councillor Mancini, please.

639
01:37:28,940 --> 01:37:30,940
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

640
01:37:30,940 --> 01:37:35,940
You know, I've received many emails and phone calls.

641
01:37:35,940 --> 01:37:41,940
We've all been included in others from folks in my district.

642
01:37:41,940 --> 01:37:48,940
And, you know, my response to those is that you have to understand this building is in very poor condition.

643
01:37:48,940 --> 01:37:51,940
This building, if anything is going to be done to the building, it has to be gutted.

644
01:37:51,940 --> 01:37:54,940
If you're going to say that building, it has to literally be gutted.

645
01:37:54,940 --> 01:37:58,940
There's major structural mechanical accessibility code upgrades.

646
01:37:58,940 --> 01:38:04,940
This is a very significant capital investment.

647
01:38:05,940 --> 01:38:08,940
You know, my question is, I don't know, you know, usually staff are not here.

648
01:38:08,940 --> 01:38:13,940
But can anyone share with us, Councillor Osso alluded to the last major interest,

649
01:38:13,940 --> 01:38:17,940
and I still have the pictures of that was the design was Dow.

650
01:38:17,940 --> 01:38:23,940
University has there been any expression of interest since those days.

651
01:38:23,940 --> 01:38:28,940
I don't know if anybody can speak to that.

652
01:38:28,940 --> 01:38:31,940
Or do your best to speak to?

653
01:38:42,940 --> 01:38:47,940
Hi, Carol Kozyak Roberts, I'm a landscape architect with Parks and Recreation.

654
01:38:47,940 --> 01:38:52,940
To the mayor through you to the Councillor.

655
01:38:52,940 --> 01:39:00,940
Since we Parks and Recreation has been on this file since it was turned into a park plan.

656
01:39:00,940 --> 01:39:09,940
I can say that we have had people that have expressed some interest to us, but we haven't been receiving any proposals or anything.

657
01:39:09,940 --> 01:39:15,940
There's usually about questions and asking about what may be possible.

658
01:39:15,940 --> 01:39:25,940
So we haven't received anything directly on that, but we do have kind of an understanding that there are people that are interested in,

659
01:39:25,940 --> 01:39:32,940
and in more and perhaps going forward with if we did go with an expression of interest that they would put something in.

660
01:39:32,940 --> 01:39:34,940
Just for a long time, thank you for that.

661
01:39:34,940 --> 01:39:37,940
You know, my point is I agree with Councillor Osso.

662
01:39:37,940 --> 01:39:43,940
I'm very suspicious of any private interest in this building in the site because of the history that parameters are here.

663
01:39:43,940 --> 01:39:50,940
I've gotten many, many emails from residents that said visitor center, a museum, housing, the list goes on and on.

664
01:39:50,940 --> 01:39:52,940
I haven't heard anything from the private sector.

665
01:39:52,940 --> 01:39:56,940
And I think, you know, as Councillor Osso said, no, thanks, you're on your own.

666
01:39:56,940 --> 01:39:58,940
I believe that's the reality.

667
01:39:58,940 --> 01:40:01,940
I just don't believe there's any private interest.

668
01:40:01,940 --> 01:40:07,940
And so I like the, I do really like to approach the mayor's bringing forward the sense of, you know,

669
01:40:07,940 --> 01:40:14,940
let's continue on the path with the park plan and design, knowing that if there's a major interest,

670
01:40:14,940 --> 01:40:17,940
we'll then we can stop that park plan and it's worth it.

671
01:40:17,940 --> 01:40:21,940
Because if we wait, we stop the park plan, we go down that path.

672
01:40:21,940 --> 01:40:26,940
There's no interest other than you miss a valley should do something with it.

673
01:40:26,940 --> 01:40:31,940
And as Sam said, we have no budget to be able to do that.

674
01:40:31,940 --> 01:40:35,940
I do not think you all need to be reminded, but the form at $120 million.

675
01:40:35,940 --> 01:40:40,940
Please hit quarters of $180 million plus a whole bunch of other capital projects.

676
01:40:40,940 --> 01:40:42,940
Where does this fit and all of that?

677
01:40:42,940 --> 01:40:48,940
So, you know, I'm willing to listen to my colleagues, I'm leaning towards the mayor's approach.

678
01:40:48,940 --> 01:40:52,940
I like the financial limitations put on it.

679
01:40:52,940 --> 01:40:55,940
But, you know, I really think we should carry on with the park plan.

680
01:40:55,940 --> 01:40:59,940
And if you want to go out and investigate other possibilities at the same time, great.

681
01:40:59,940 --> 01:41:03,940
I'm not a better man, but if I was a bet, I bet that nothing's going to come back.

682
01:41:03,940 --> 01:41:06,940
But any else, my two cents, thank you.

683
01:41:06,940 --> 01:41:09,940
Thank you very much, Councillor Hartley.

684
01:41:09,940 --> 01:41:11,940
Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

685
01:41:11,940 --> 01:41:14,940
I'm going to direct this to staff and I don't even know what staff.

686
01:41:14,940 --> 01:41:20,940
My only hesitation of putting a cab, like 75% needs to come from some other third party,

687
01:41:20,940 --> 01:41:28,940
is that my concern is that there might be an opportunity for HRM to find funds through other sources of funding.

688
01:41:29,940 --> 01:41:36,940
I'm just wondering whether that's the case in whether we're potentially cutting ourselves off from other funding opportunities.

689
01:41:36,940 --> 01:41:38,940
That is my only hesitation.

690
01:41:38,940 --> 01:41:44,940
I don't know enough about the whole history to know whether it makes sense to even present that as a concern.

691
01:41:44,940 --> 01:41:53,940
But my bigger concern is, is there money on the table somewhere that HRM could potentially apply for that a third party might not?

692
01:41:53,940 --> 01:42:01,940
So that's kind of my one wonder about something like this, particularly.

693
01:42:01,940 --> 01:42:09,940
You know, with the nature of the building, where it sits on on a graveyard that this is a historical building.

694
01:42:09,940 --> 01:42:11,940
There's just many, many, many pieces to this.

695
01:42:11,940 --> 01:42:15,940
So I just, that's that's my only fear of my only hesitation.

696
01:42:15,940 --> 01:42:21,940
Everything else, though, I think that the rest of my colleagues have really spoken to, so thank you.

697
01:42:23,940 --> 01:42:27,940
Thank you very much. Councilor Hensby, please.

698
01:42:27,940 --> 01:42:33,940
Thank you much, Mr. Ray. Yes, this has been a topic of discussion even before the library closed,

699
01:42:33,940 --> 01:42:37,940
what would do with the building after the new one was finally built up.

700
01:42:37,940 --> 01:42:40,940
That top was 14 years ago that one decided upon.

701
01:42:40,940 --> 01:42:46,940
But anyway, with that now being vacant stuff, I'd love to see the preservation of the building itself.

702
01:42:46,940 --> 01:42:51,940
It's a memorial library is dedicated to our veterans and solve it that.

703
01:42:51,940 --> 01:42:55,940
I kind of wanted some kind of creative partnership to be arranged for public private partnership,

704
01:42:55,940 --> 01:43:01,940
where we provide the building for free, tax free zone for a period of 10 years,

705
01:43:01,940 --> 01:43:06,940
and let the proposal come forward in regards to what could be done with the site.

706
01:43:06,940 --> 01:43:12,940
One of those type of incentives would be possible for us to, to look at the redevelopment of the site.

707
01:43:12,940 --> 01:43:18,940
We've had proposals of discussions in the past, perhaps the problem should have had it for a courthouse,

708
01:43:18,940 --> 01:43:22,940
that we have a courthouse district downtown with the other courts right across the street.

709
01:43:22,940 --> 01:43:29,940
We had talking in the past about trading it off for the, the law court building down here on the waterfront and stuff,

710
01:43:29,940 --> 01:43:32,940
but we know the condition of that building and the garage and stuff,

711
01:43:32,940 --> 01:43:34,940
so they're trying to fix them repair that.

712
01:43:34,940 --> 01:43:37,940
But that's another discussion for another day.

713
01:43:37,940 --> 01:43:39,940
And there was also discussion on the first stations,

714
01:43:39,940 --> 01:43:43,940
possibly having it as a place of government for them to consider.

715
01:43:43,940 --> 01:43:46,940
But I also think it could be a great spot for an archive building.

716
01:43:46,940 --> 01:43:48,940
I mean, that's a archive site.

717
01:43:48,940 --> 01:43:52,940
But the problem is that we need to have it evaluated.

718
01:43:52,940 --> 01:43:58,940
Is it economically possible to convert that building into something economical?

719
01:43:58,940 --> 01:44:00,940
That's a good question to ask.

720
01:44:00,940 --> 01:44:03,940
I've seen all buildings get retrofitted.

721
01:44:03,940 --> 01:44:06,940
I know from my own personal experience from the old nose,

722
01:44:06,940 --> 01:44:09,940
of course, home in Westball.

723
01:44:09,940 --> 01:44:11,940
Everybody thought I should be tearing that down.

724
01:44:11,940 --> 01:44:14,940
We decided to keep that piece of heritage alive.

725
01:44:14,940 --> 01:44:16,940
We rebuilt that building.

726
01:44:16,940 --> 01:44:20,940
I'm going to show you a picture from the inside that it was not about a pigeon coop with

727
01:44:20,940 --> 01:44:25,940
piles of pigeon crap for high.

728
01:44:25,940 --> 01:44:27,940
But what deep is the hall throat thing?

729
01:44:27,940 --> 01:44:30,940
We had to sanitize that place and clean it out.

730
01:44:30,940 --> 01:44:37,940
We put some restructuring beams of steel in it to make sure that that 105 year old building still standing today.

731
01:44:37,940 --> 01:44:41,940
And I think there's a possibility something can be done.

732
01:44:41,940 --> 01:44:45,940
Well, if you look at it creatively, I think that if we have a

733
01:44:45,940 --> 01:44:48,940
an economic incentive behind it, that might work.

734
01:44:48,940 --> 01:44:50,940
Thank you.

735
01:44:50,940 --> 01:44:53,940
Thank you very much, Councillor Kent's place.

736
01:44:53,940 --> 01:44:55,940
Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

737
01:44:55,940 --> 01:44:57,940
I feel like we're missing a major link here.

738
01:44:57,940 --> 01:44:59,940
And I'm surprised none of my other colleagues.

739
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:29,000
I think the thing that swung me directly into, yes, we need to give an opportunity for call for proposal, because we actually, in the last seatpad meeting, had some citizens who actually approached us with some significant history. A lot, I mean, historical for those people who are movers and shakers and who have done significant projects that entailed this kind of complexity.

740
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:36,000
They came forward and they asked for an opportunity to create a proposal.

741
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:42,000
So, for me, it was an opener. We should allow them an opportunity.

742
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:46,000
And yes, we have the park plan going on. And yes, it's been 14 years.

743
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:54,000
But there is this, there is a group of people right now who want to do something with that site.

744
01:45:54,000 --> 01:46:01,000
And why would we not entertain that an opportunity that would allow them to get into a process?

745
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:11,000
So, for me, that this, I think that Councillor White's amendment, it makes sense. I'm happy with that.

746
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:18,000
I don't think we should be putting on anything related to 65% or 75% or 10% or 2%.

747
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:27,000
That, which would lead, then leave the municipality kind of in a position that we've accepted some kind of financial contribution.

748
01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:33,000
I, like, I don't think that we should go down that route before some kind of call for proposal is in.

749
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:45,000
And I am not a big fan of putting our staff through at work that could potentially change quickly.

750
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:50,000
And yeah, nothing might come in. Or something really spectacular could come in.

751
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:56,000
I don't understand, I just, I would ask that everyone considered that in this motion.

752
01:46:56,000 --> 01:47:04,000
I'm, I'm okay with it. I was going to wait and say this for the actual motion, but right now we're all kind of dipping into both places.

753
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:14,000
So, I did, decided to do it as well. But to me, I felt a lot, I got a lot of credibility out of the folks that presented in CPED.

754
01:47:14,000 --> 01:47:25,000
And I, I, and I don't, I don't necessarily, I usually feel like I need to delve into some questions and we did.

755
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:30,000
We put some tough questions on the floor when they were making their, their presentations.

756
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:35,000
We talked about the, the cemetery. We talked about the indigenous history.

757
01:47:35,000 --> 01:47:37,000
We talked about the state of the building.

758
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:46,000
We talked about the park plan and consistently they came back with answers that said they want to try.

759
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:49,000
So, for me, I want to let them try.

760
01:47:49,000 --> 01:48:02,000
And I don't think we should waste the, if, if our staff and our CAO are saying it's better to pause than I want to acknowledge that and pause, it's not a long time frame.

761
01:48:02,000 --> 01:48:10,000
I don't expect it to, you know, to take years, it might take years for the project, but I don't think it should take years.

762
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:23,000
We've asked them at that meeting to go back and start your proposal drafting because if we go to council and ask for this, you need to, you know, be prepared for it.

763
01:48:23,000 --> 01:48:34,000
So, yeah, I, I will be supporting both the, the amendment and the main motion. Thank you.

764
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:38,000
Thank you very much.

765
01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:40,000
To the CIO please.

766
01:48:40,000 --> 01:48:41,000
Yeah.

767
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:48,000
Thanks a good point. Maybe to just lead in a bit. There were a few good questions asked, I'll speak to them generally.

768
01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:56,000
Obviously, the more specific we make the request or the amendment, that's going to drive time into the process.

769
01:48:56,000 --> 01:49:01,000
So, what I'm saying here is if you want a very specific outcome, let's say you want a 50% funded.

770
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:06,000
That's going to require a lot of dialogue between us and the potential proponent in order to get that information there.

771
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:13,000
So, you, you are definitely restricting, perhaps purposely the input into the process.

772
01:49:13,000 --> 01:49:18,000
So, that's, that's one thing and when you do that, that's going to elongate the process.

773
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:22,000
So, we would, depending what the final EOI looks like we'd allow more time.

774
01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:31,000
You make it more broad, that allows obviously a less detailed proposal to come forward, but you can then move with more speed to sift through them.

775
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:40,000
And, and get where you want to get to, without anybody investing in tremendous, you know, an over to amount of time, which is, is,

776
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:44,000
in a growing municipality like ours, not easy for everybody to do.

777
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:51,000
So, with that, I also want to just ask my colleague John to just give a reminder of the restrictions on the property.

778
01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:56,000
So, we are remembering just how much this is a bit of a long shot.

779
01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:00,000
Sorry, that's John Traves, my pulse is John McPherson.

780
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,000
I do this all the time, there's a lot of John's on our team.

781
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:05,000
Yeah, yeah, don't try it, John.

782
01:50:05,000 --> 01:50:08,000
Yeah, okay, can you give the overview of this?

783
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:09,000
Sure.

784
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:11,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, for you to counsel.

785
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:18,000
So, the nature of the memorial library is, it is a memorial library because it's based on a burial ground.

786
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:28,000
And so, in terms of any future uses for that site, there are constraints with respect to ability to bring in new services that would,

787
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:32,000
that would might be required for new building or renovations or anything else.

788
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:39,000
But beyond that, the property was the grant in 1882, which you'll see in the report, is very restrictive.

789
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:52,000
The only thing that that property is allowed to be used for is as a park, a public square, or as was revised in legislation 1949, the public library.

790
01:50:52,000 --> 01:51:06,000
And so, any change in that use, as a result of a UI is going to require provincial amendment legislation and or waiver because a change in use, the property reverts to the province.

791
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:12,000
It was donated for public park and so it reverts to the province.

792
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:19,000
And I realize we have tried and it sits there, I'm sure they take it back once we took the building down.

793
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:24,000
But that is going to be a challenge in terms of any UI.

794
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:40,000
If you are considering whether to pause and call for ELIs, you just have them in mind as opposed to potentially pursuing two avenues at the same time and holding that open.

795
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:45,000
Thank you. I just want to make sure we heard you on the two avenues at the same time.

796
01:51:45,000 --> 01:51:48,000
So could you just repeat that?

797
01:51:48,000 --> 01:52:11,000
I understood Mary, you were proposing to defeat the recommendation and proceed with two avenues at the same time, which I think was your draft motion circulated as opposed to the amendment here, which is the down tools in favor of proceeding with an ELIs on some terms or others before going any further.

798
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:19,000
Okay, thank you for appreciate that. We'll move to Councillor Steele, please.

799
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:36,000
Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. I was originally going to suggest an amendment to an amendment to an amendment, which I don't think is possible. By the way, I know, okay, thank you. Okay, I just.

800
01:52:36,000 --> 01:52:48,000
Thank you. Thank you, John Traves, appreciate that. I was originally going to suggest that perhaps we baked in the 75% minimum external funding.

801
01:52:48,000 --> 01:53:05,000
But based on the comments from our acting CAO, based on the fact that I can't do it and also the comments from our acting CAO that it would lock in staff when they went out to the marketplace to see what the interest is.

802
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:15,000
We will not be bringing that forward now as I think it would constrict the process too much, but that's it. Thank you.

803
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:21,000
Deputy Mayor, please.

804
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:34,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Yeah, I think it's love to build on what Councillor Steele was saying, you know, it'd be very hard for groups to go out with a concept and to secure funding and have any guarantee.

805
01:53:34,000 --> 01:53:42,000
And have any guarantee that they would be able to come up with 75% not even knowing if the project was real if it was selected.

806
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:56,000
You know, it's just an idea and so anything we got back around external funding would only be hypothetical. It wouldn't necessarily, you know, be realistic.

807
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:00,000
And the locking in point is another good point.

808
01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:11,000
You know, I was, I just want to go back for those of us. I don't know how many people here at went to FCM and saw the keynote by Zeta Cobb talking about Fogo Island.

809
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:25,000
And, you know, she gave a very passionate speech about the importance of place and how we are connected to place both through the past and how we decide to build the future.

810
01:54:25,000 --> 01:54:41,000
And, you know, Councillor Kent spoke about the people who were here presenting at CPET about the importance and the significance of this building and its connection to our past and remembering who we are.

811
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:44,000
You know, how if has is a historical city.

812
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:54,000
We have lost so many of our heritage buildings over recent years that, you know, sometimes I look around and wonder if we can still do it.

813
01:54:54,000 --> 01:55:03,000
I wonder if we can still call ourselves that buildings that are being, you know, built. They all look the same, they could all be from the same template most of them.

814
01:55:03,000 --> 01:55:15,000
And I think that we're really, you know, looking at losing our identity of place if we don't make an effort to try to preserve some of our built heritage.

815
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:23,000
And this building is one of those buildings. It has a special significance to the city to the people of the city.

816
01:55:23,000 --> 01:55:33,000
And I think that it, you know, the fact that it's being stalled for so long isn't necessarily, you know, a fault of the public.

817
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:39,000
We now have an idea for a process that perhaps this isn't the first time this idea has come up.

818
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:46,000
I remember years ago when I worked at Del housing at the architecture school there was an idea for a call for proposals.

819
01:55:46,000 --> 01:56:02,000
You know, those things didn't happen. I don't know why, but here we are. And here's an opportunity to take a look at at this building again. So, you know, I think when we discuss this at CPET, even though it's not in the motion.

820
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:10,000
The discussion was about the call for proposals. I do think that having more clarity on direction for staff.

821
01:56:10,000 --> 01:56:21,000
You know, it's necessary. I think I asked at that meeting is the discussion enough and I didn't get a clear answer. So I think, yeah, having the clarity and having full council vote on it.

822
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:31,000
I think is a good move and I will be supporting the amended the motion and the amendment. Thank you.

823
01:56:31,000 --> 01:56:33,000
Councillor White, please.

824
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:55,000
Thank you, Mayor, and thanks everybody. I think I would respond to some of the things I've heard and maybe see how we feel about this amendment and then on the main motion talk about what we want to do for the continuing with the park or not and kind of the public participation around that.

825
01:56:55,000 --> 01:57:01,000
I want to try and get through this amendment. This is what I think is better for if we go this way.

826
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:13,000
Because I just think there's a lot of topics here. We can talk about and I'd like to hear more from staff on on what we should do as far as the park planning process. Also, just add on that.

827
01:57:13,000 --> 01:57:20,000
The reason that there's been this kind of two-year pause is because of this interest in the building.

828
01:57:20,000 --> 01:57:33,000
It's been and because there's been a change from it was under facilities for 10 years and now it's been under parks for two years. So parks kind of went and looked and kind of did their dual due diligence. What's the state of the building.

829
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:47,000
So just regarding this amendment, it's just a more clarification. Adaptive reuse. I just use that term because that's what I've been hearing from the public like the people that reached out and I kind of googled what it means.

830
01:57:47,000 --> 01:58:01,000
And yes, I'd be open to using part of the building, just a process of repurposing the existing building for new functions, preserving history while promoting sustainability and urban revitalization. That's what the internet's telling me.

831
01:58:01,000 --> 01:58:24,000
Yeah, I think a lot of this can wait till the main motion if we're comfortable with this wording for the amendment, if we're looking to go to an expression of interest. There is a full rich history with this space and the libraries are part of it, but there's a lot more there.

832
01:58:24,000 --> 01:58:30,000
Yeah, that's what I have to take you.

833
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:38,000
That's not so fast. Deputy Mayor, if you would mind, I'd like to say a final word. Thank you.

834
01:58:38,000 --> 01:59:03,000
Wonderful conversation. Thank you very much for the debate.

835
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:15,000
So we had a very important reminder from the solicitor around the legislation that governs the use of the library. This is this file has been on my desk in different ways.

836
01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:25,000
For 20 years, the memorial library and including one as a waterfront development when we were asked to look at it's adaptive reuse back then that was in 2013.

837
01:59:25,000 --> 01:59:32,000
And the legislation is a serious impediment. It does the choices under the legislation are a park or library.

838
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:40,000
The legislation does contemplate the entire site being a park, so an entire park is something we could decide to do today.

839
01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:52,000
In fact, and we could ask the staff to start planning a park and we'd get a park in a couple of years and we could break out of this, this wheel spinning that we've been in for 10 or 12 years now.

840
01:59:52,000 --> 02:00:00,000
The chances of a proponent coming that we'll be able to

841
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,600
Who, uh, building to a business plan, uh, the delay is associated with a change in legislation, uh, to get a change of use from a library, or I would say slim to none. Um, and if we don't provide in our direction, a financial direction, um, and uh, allow proposals to come forward that that do not have financial wherewithal, then we're simply taking on the cost ourselves and we've all sort of discussions today.

842
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:54,600
I agree, uh, agreeing that we don't have the money to do that. So this, what the motion we're about to pass is just a recipe for more years of wheelspinning, um, and that's, uh, that's nothing that I want to, I want to be supportive of. Um, so I, I can, uh, I'm not sure now after the discussion, I can even support the amendment to the motion, uh, I think it's the, we're heading in the wrong direction here.

843
02:00:54,600 --> 02:01:07,600
So, um, I'm, I'm going to vote against the amendment to end the motion, and it should the motion fail. I'll be happy to propose an alternative that I think would get us a result on that on that site much faster and at lower costs.

844
02:01:07,600 --> 02:01:09,600
Thank you.

845
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:35,600
Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Uh, this question is for the solicitor. John, can you help me understand, because I know that you spoke about the specific uses that are currently allowed.

846
02:01:35,600 --> 02:01:44,600
Is there anything that would speak to, um, understanding that it would require an update to the legislation of what could be done to that?

847
02:01:44,600 --> 02:01:49,600
Is there anything that that you know of that would, that would stop?

848
02:01:49,600 --> 02:01:55,600
Um, the update of it of that land being something other than what it is today.

849
02:01:55,600 --> 02:02:09,600
So if in 1947 or whatever the year was that they turned it into a library, if it can be done once, is there any, is there, is there a problem with suggesting that it might be able to happen again?

850
02:02:09,600 --> 02:02:18,600
So I've been involved as well in this file for probably since I've been here 14 years and I've heard a number of different approaches generally this struggle.

851
02:02:18,600 --> 02:02:42,600
I think the problems would be open to a reasonable read action, right? If there was something was there, the challenge is that, you know, the, when that building was built, the concerns that you would see in a modern day with respect to disturbance of a burial site, do not appear to have been the same.

852
02:02:42,600 --> 02:03:04,600
And so I would say you would be significantly challenged, um, in respect of what would be required to, to, to do any major renovations that involve breaking the soil, um, given the, given the number of, of, um, burrows that appear to have happened there.

853
02:03:04,600 --> 02:03:18,600
And so that it really depends on what the EOI, you know, revealed what you've got as to what is possible and whether the province would even entertain the change you would have to be respectful of the burial site.

854
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:22,600
More so I would suggest and when that building was first built.

855
02:03:22,600 --> 02:03:27,600
Sure, but given that I think fundamentally we're all interested in the preservation of the building.

856
02:03:27,600 --> 02:03:38,600
That, that might be something worth can still considering given that at the end of the day. That's where a lot of the interest comes. Okay. Okay. Thank you very much.

857
02:03:38,600 --> 02:03:42,600
Thank you. Councilor Degogam, please.

858
02:03:42,600 --> 02:03:54,600
Thank you very much, uh, Mr. Mayor, you know, it's interesting, been listening and, um, the definition of the use being like the park or the library.

859
02:03:54,600 --> 02:04:10,600
Well, libraries today are so very different, right? And when we think about what the potential is, it's probably a very limited number of organizations or that would even entertain responding to a call for proposal.

860
02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:29,600
But it's a veterans library and, you know, I think about the defense that's coming to HRM as a city and would they be very interested as a partner to see how to bring that building back to life and to have a collection.

861
02:04:29,600 --> 02:04:37,600
And, you know, when we think about library and a collection where information and resources are available for people to see like military archives.

862
02:04:37,600 --> 02:04:44,600
So I guess I wouldn't want to close the door to say that.

863
02:04:45,600 --> 02:04:59,600
The reason someone that might be interested in how to bring this building back to life and I do see that there is a loss a lot of challenges around a building in its current state.

864
02:04:59,600 --> 02:05:09,600
And when you think about the sanctity of the land and the, the, the souls that are buried there so.

865
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:22,600
But yeah, so I, I want to support the amendment because I think that it is worth checking it out to see maybe there is an organization, nothing of that's going to work with our military and see about can we bring it back.

866
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:25,600
So that's where I'm at. Thank you.

867
02:05:25,600 --> 02:05:27,600
Thank you, council. Pretty, please.

868
02:05:27,600 --> 02:05:30,600
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor and.

869
02:05:30,600 --> 02:05:34,600
Right. So I, I agree with that. This has been a good conversation.

870
02:05:35,600 --> 02:05:41,600
A little confusing at times, but it in essence, I think councilor waits.

871
02:05:41,600 --> 02:05:44,600
Amendment.

872
02:05:44,600 --> 02:05:53,600
Makes the motion more full some better, but at the same time, I don't think there's a conflict with what the mayor is asking for and I think that is more full some.

873
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:56,600
So I'm going to support the amendment.

874
02:05:56,600 --> 02:06:03,600
But hope to support the mayor's motion after we get back to the main motions. Thank you.

875
02:06:03,600 --> 02:06:06,600
Thank you very much for that.

876
02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:11,600
Councillor Cantor, I believe you could call the question, would you like to. Okay, there we go.

877
02:06:11,600 --> 02:06:15,600
This is on the, this is on the amendment.

878
02:06:33,600 --> 02:06:58,600
The motion carries. Thank you very much.

879
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:12,600
And that brings us to the, to the main motion.

880
02:07:12,600 --> 02:07:16,600
Conversation on the main motion and I see Councillor Cantor, please.

881
02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:20,600
I think I said everything. Thank you.

882
02:07:20,600 --> 02:07:25,600
Okay, Councillor Clarke, please.

883
02:07:25,600 --> 02:07:27,600
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

884
02:07:27,600 --> 02:07:35,600
Just want to get a sense. So when we say a time as amended now, a time limited engagement.

885
02:07:35,600 --> 02:07:42,600
Any sense of how many days, weeks, months we're talking about?

886
02:07:42,600 --> 02:07:44,600
Some things back to council?

887
02:07:44,600 --> 02:07:50,600
Yeah, without having the final, you know, I drafted what feels right to us in the current motion that just pass.

888
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:55,600
It would be, you know, up to six months, we might shrink that down a bit.

889
02:07:55,600 --> 02:07:58,600
If it was meant time or time to get back to us.

890
02:07:58,600 --> 02:08:04,600
Oh, sorry, I was signed with EOI on the street, time to get back to you.

891
02:08:04,600 --> 02:08:07,600
Inside of a year for sure.

892
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:09,600
But yeah, probably eight months.

893
02:08:09,600 --> 02:08:10,600
Okay.

894
02:08:10,600 --> 02:08:18,600
I mean, the reality colleagues is no matter what we do, it's still going to be a long time before we do anything with this place.

895
02:08:18,600 --> 02:08:28,600
But I want to support the mayor and I want to support the intention of this motion and not sure where I'm going to go at the moment.

896
02:08:28,600 --> 02:08:33,600
But the reality is, no, I shouldn't say no.

897
02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:45,600
The likelihood of anything feasible coming back to us is down near a zero or round shape of some sort or another.

898
02:08:45,600 --> 02:08:52,600
So the question I'm asking and probably you're asking, too, is, is the delay worth it.

899
02:08:52,600 --> 02:09:04,600
And that's the only really consideration I have, because to the extent that a proposal comes back that isn't a library and isn't a park.

900
02:09:04,600 --> 02:09:06,600
I think the likelihood is very high.

901
02:09:06,600 --> 02:09:09,600
And so then it's outside of our control.

902
02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:10,600
We ask the province.

903
02:09:10,600 --> 02:09:12,600
We send the letters say, hey, does this make sense to you?

904
02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:14,600
Would you approve such a change?

905
02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:15,600
And that delay.

906
02:09:15,600 --> 02:09:24,600
So if they're looking for funding from another source private or public, that public or private provider funds is likely to go, well,

907
02:09:24,600 --> 02:09:28,600
we're not going to wait a year or two for the province to make a decision on this.

908
02:09:28,600 --> 02:09:30,600
And then the funds might dry out.

909
02:09:30,600 --> 02:09:33,600
So I don't know.

910
02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:36,600
It's a tough one to think about how long this has been going on.

911
02:09:36,600 --> 02:09:40,600
I've been on council and others have said since well before that.

912
02:09:40,600 --> 02:09:49,600
I can remember when I was on the library board as a provincial appointee putting the case together for the new central library knowing that this building is something

913
02:09:49,600 --> 02:09:50,600
got to be done with it.

914
02:09:50,600 --> 02:09:52,600
But it's unlikely anything is going to be done.

915
02:09:52,600 --> 02:09:55,600
Back then we were closing the building down in the summer times because it was hot.

916
02:09:55,600 --> 02:09:56,600
Heat was too much.

917
02:09:56,600 --> 02:09:58,600
The air conditioning couldn't cool the building.

918
02:09:58,600 --> 02:09:59,600
Stuff was falling off.

919
02:09:59,600 --> 02:10:01,600
We had to put scaffolding up.

920
02:10:01,600 --> 02:10:05,600
So we'll see what happens.

921
02:10:05,600 --> 02:10:14,600
But you know, I guess what we're saying in this motion is we're going to delay a whole bunch of time for something we know is probably going to be not feasible.

922
02:10:14,600 --> 02:10:17,600
Thank you Mr. Mayor.

923
02:10:17,600 --> 02:10:23,600
Thank you very much and we'll go to councilor Austin, please.

924
02:10:24,600 --> 02:10:31,600
Thank you Mr. Mayor and so I'll speak to why I think the delay pause is worthwhile.

925
02:10:31,600 --> 02:10:34,600
And it's not so much about you know our timing.

926
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:42,600
It's about the quality of the engagement we're going to get from the public because right now when we go to the public it's going to be how you're going to save the building.

927
02:10:42,600 --> 02:10:43,600
Right.

928
02:10:43,600 --> 02:10:51,600
Like we're not at a point where people are going to be wanting to talk about like a potential park here that doesn't include the building.

929
02:10:51,600 --> 02:10:54,600
I like that question is still very much out there.

930
02:10:54,600 --> 02:11:05,600
If we pause for six months and do well one last this is your last chance world is there anyone out there that's got a use for this building that's going to work.

931
02:11:05,600 --> 02:11:09,600
If we do that, then that comes back to council.

932
02:11:09,600 --> 02:11:11,600
We can look at it.

933
02:11:11,600 --> 02:11:15,600
Maybe there's a miracle option here and then that changes our plans.

934
02:11:15,600 --> 02:11:26,600
But if many of us are suspecting there isn't, then I think we get to engage with the public from a more honest place because right now it would be how do you know there's not anything you've never gone out and asked.

935
02:11:26,600 --> 02:11:32,600
Well now we can go out and ask and then that will make the public engagement that will then come more worthwhile.

936
02:11:32,600 --> 02:11:38,600
So I think that is actually the reason to pause to bring this back.

937
02:11:38,600 --> 02:11:42,600
It's not about adding you know like the top why we shouldn't pause.

938
02:11:42,600 --> 02:11:46,600
It's not about like well the whole thing's going to now be six months longer.

939
02:11:46,600 --> 02:11:56,600
The actual process will be better and so I think that is the reason why number one you know I would say pause rather than discontinue.

940
02:11:56,600 --> 02:12:07,600
Is still important rather than trying to do the two things at once because I think the one will actually make the other better if we end up as we many of us suspect we will.

941
02:12:07,600 --> 02:12:12,600
So that's why I think we should stick with this motion.

942
02:12:12,600 --> 02:12:22,600
If there was interest I would say friendly amendment if someone wanted discontinue two pause because I think pause is more in keeping with where we are.

943
02:12:22,600 --> 02:12:26,600
But you know I don't think.

944
02:12:26,600 --> 02:12:34,600
Yeah the park pause yeah the part planning on the park pause I mean for six months I think we will have a far better result with the public.

945
02:12:34,600 --> 02:12:38,600
So I think that's the reason to keep number one as it is.

946
02:12:38,600 --> 02:12:40,600
Thank you.

947
02:12:40,600 --> 02:12:43,600
Thank you moving to councillors.

948
02:12:43,600 --> 02:12:52,600
Thank you Mr. Mayor maybe staff can give me some clarity on this because I'm not really tracking why.

949
02:12:52,600 --> 02:12:57,600
A pause versus continuing both tracks simultaneously.

950
02:12:57,600 --> 02:13:07,600
Our substantially different from one another unless the exact same team is responsible for both tracks that we're talking about moving at the same time.

951
02:13:07,600 --> 02:13:15,600
In which case you know obviously there there resources would be doubled up and therefore this whole process would take a lot longer.

952
02:13:15,600 --> 02:13:23,600
If however the expression of interest going out to the public is independent of whatever park planning might be underway at the same time.

953
02:13:23,600 --> 02:13:41,600
Are we just moving ourselves along on the calendar at a more reasonable pace and making sure that we're ready to take action a little bit sooner as a result of that planning having taken place in tandem with the expression of interest process.

954
02:13:41,600 --> 02:13:52,600
I don't know if Brad or staff have the ability to to speak to exactly which teams would be responsible for which components here but it's that overlap I'm just not real clear on why there would need to be a pause in order to facilitate the expression of interest.

955
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:59,600
The expression of interest process if they're managed by entirely different teams.

956
02:13:59,600 --> 02:14:07,600
All starts and perhaps Maggie can finish so everybody's correct I mean.

957
02:14:07,600 --> 02:14:12,600
Perfect as I can tell you can tell my time is near.

958
02:14:12,600 --> 02:14:20,600
So look on the expression of interest it's about focus so if you want the market so to speak to take it serious.

959
02:14:20,600 --> 02:14:27,600
Your shadow boxing when you say I'm going to do two things and once and you've got to guess whether I'm really going to take it seriously. So that's one thing.

960
02:14:27,600 --> 02:14:34,600
So that's on the EOI response second thing is resources while they don't perfectly overlap they definitely overlap.

961
02:14:34,600 --> 02:14:36,600
So there is a focus issue here.

962
02:14:36,600 --> 02:14:49,600
So if your interest is really getting the EOI done clearing that out of the way whether we're going ahead with adaptive reuse or not then the best way forward is to focus your resources get that cleared out of the way and then return to your park plan.

963
02:14:49,600 --> 02:14:59,600
If that is indeed the way you're going and I do agree if that is the idea is to keep the park planning alive is to put a pause on it while we do the EOI clear that out of the way.

964
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:07,000
And bring it back. So that's my response. I don't know Maggie. Do you want to add that adder?

965
02:15:07,000 --> 02:15:16,000
The council, the only thing Maggie McDonald executive director for Parks and Recreation. The only thing to add would be,

966
02:15:16,000 --> 02:15:22,000
there would be, as we do have budget for a consultant, park playing consultant. So that would be an expanded,

967
02:15:22,000 --> 02:15:28,000
a direct expenditure that would be made that if, if there wasn't that doubt of reuse found,

968
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:36,000
that wouldn't, that would be a sort of a lost funding for that, for that piece. Yep.

969
02:15:36,000 --> 02:15:38,000
All right.

970
02:15:38,000 --> 02:15:41,000
Thank you. We'll move to the council.

971
02:15:41,000 --> 02:15:43,000
Party, please.

972
02:15:43,000 --> 02:15:49,000
Thank you. Okay. That was a good question. And that was a good answer. So thank you. I'm, I'm,

973
02:15:49,000 --> 02:15:55,000
understand the more. So I'm wondering if Councillor White would be agreeable to,

974
02:15:55,000 --> 02:16:03,000
uh, friendly amendment to change the word discontinued to pause, because for, for six months,

975
02:16:03,000 --> 02:16:08,000
is that it's a Councillor, it's the deputy mayor's motion at this point.

976
02:16:08,000 --> 02:16:13,000
Uh, who, who said, oh, did you table the original motion? Forgive me. I think I apologize for your

977
02:16:13,000 --> 02:16:21,000
question. Okay. Lot going on. Um, for, yeah. So number one, on this, what's, what's

978
02:16:21,000 --> 02:16:27,000
reading on our screen right now to continue to pause, because that, that seems like what

979
02:16:27,000 --> 02:16:33,000
is needed to see if there's a real expression of interest if there are, pause the park plan.

980
02:16:33,000 --> 02:16:37,000
But then, but then we're not wasting too much, we're not stopping the park plan. We're going to

981
02:16:38,000 --> 02:16:44,000
continue. So that's kind of from how I understand the mayor's motion, intention.

982
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:52,000
Yeah, but it's not going to stop it. So I would be happy to support this if that was changed

983
02:16:52,000 --> 02:17:04,000
to pause. And, and if there was an amount of time, that's needed.

984
02:17:05,000 --> 02:17:17,000
Until six time as the EOI is completed, completed. Okay.

985
02:17:17,000 --> 02:17:21,000
Would you like to propose that, finally, my mother? I propose. Yeah.

986
02:17:21,000 --> 02:17:27,000
Is that, right? I'm seeing a nodding head from the move of the motion.

987
02:17:27,000 --> 02:17:33,000
Friendly motion, friendly, my mother has been accepted to change the word discontinued to pause,

988
02:17:33,000 --> 02:17:39,000
and then add the words until such time as the EOI process has concluded.

989
02:17:39,000 --> 02:17:46,000
Perfect. Great. Great. Great. Thank you. Okay. So there we go.

990
02:17:46,000 --> 02:17:49,000
We will move on then to Councilor Mancey.

991
02:17:49,000 --> 02:17:52,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Very good discussion.

992
02:17:52,000 --> 02:17:55,000
I need clarification from Ms. McDonald, though.

993
02:17:55,000 --> 02:18:01,000
You said there's, there's some funds already in the budget for the park design.

994
02:18:01,000 --> 02:18:05,000
If we start the park design, that money is gone.

995
02:18:05,000 --> 02:18:09,000
Left, but if we pause it, we don't lose that money. That money is just put aside.

996
02:18:09,000 --> 02:18:15,000
Is that correct? Can you just clarify that for me? I want to make sure we don't lose that money if we just simply pause.

997
02:18:15,000 --> 02:18:18,000
It's our money. It's our budget.

998
02:18:18,000 --> 02:18:21,000
It's through the mayor of the council. It's in the capital budget.

999
02:18:21,000 --> 02:18:25,000
So we carry forward if the money wasn't spent in this year.

1000
02:18:25,000 --> 02:18:28,000
It's not lost for that intent because we'll pause.

1001
02:18:28,000 --> 02:18:31,000
If we, if we, this passes, we're pausing that design works.

1002
02:18:31,000 --> 02:18:36,000
We want to make sure we have the funds to be able to continue if we choose to do so.

1003
02:18:36,000 --> 02:18:37,000
Is that correct? Correct.

1004
02:18:37,000 --> 02:18:39,000
Okay. Just want to clarify that.

1005
02:18:39,000 --> 02:18:40,000
So if that's the case.

1006
02:18:40,000 --> 02:18:42,000
I think this is a good discussion.

1007
02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:47,000
I support the amendment and I support the, the slightly, the friendly amendment also.

1008
02:18:47,000 --> 02:18:49,000
Thank you.

1009
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:53,000
Thank you very much. And we'll go to Councilor Dagle again, please.

1010
02:18:54,000 --> 02:18:57,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you, Councilor Medzini.

1011
02:18:57,000 --> 02:19:02,000
You're building on your question because I do remember that it was in the capital budget.

1012
02:19:02,000 --> 02:19:08,000
Two pause. Have we made any agreement with a consultant at this point?

1013
02:19:08,000 --> 02:19:11,000
That would be in jeopardy or is that sort of been on hold anyway?

1014
02:19:11,000 --> 02:19:21,000
To the mayor through the councilor, we haven't gone into anything yet.

1015
02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:25,000
That has been paused. So the money isn't.

1016
02:19:25,000 --> 02:19:27,000
It's not committed or it's not committed.

1017
02:19:27,000 --> 02:19:31,000
Thank you. So very much. Thank you. I can support the amendment.

1018
02:19:31,000 --> 02:19:32,000
Thank you.

1019
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:37,000
Councillor, you perhaps you want to close Councillor White.

1020
02:19:37,000 --> 02:19:43,000
Or would you like to proceed now? You're first on the list.

1021
02:19:43,000 --> 02:19:47,000
Okay. We'll go to Councillor Santa Monica, please.

1022
02:19:47,000 --> 02:19:50,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you, colleagues.

1023
02:19:50,000 --> 02:19:54,000
With the discussion we wound up getting where we needed to go.

1024
02:19:54,000 --> 02:19:59,000
I think there was in the original motion there may have been a failure to recognize.

1025
02:19:59,000 --> 02:20:05,000
The stark likelihood that we may not get where we want to go with this particular project.

1026
02:20:05,000 --> 02:20:09,000
But we recognize that there's there's potential out there.

1027
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:17,000
And so we've taken added some steps to this whole process that allows us to have a little bit better clarity.

1028
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:22,000
It gives staff better direction on this particular question.

1029
02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:30,000
And gives us a relative timeframe within which to expect either success or a cause to move on.

1030
02:20:30,000 --> 02:20:36,000
So I will support the motion now as amended. Thank you.

1031
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:39,000
Thank you, Councillor White, please.

1032
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:45,000
Thank you, everybody. I think I feel good about this conversation.

1033
02:20:45,000 --> 02:20:52,000
And we don't want this to take too long and that we're not going to the public with a fuzzy ask of what do you want this or that.

1034
02:20:52,000 --> 02:20:55,000
So we'll get some clarity move this along.

1035
02:20:55,000 --> 02:21:06,000
Just finally before we vote, I'm just wondering if staff could just give a quick recap for council of what's been happening since it changed from

1036
02:21:07,000 --> 02:21:16,000
Facilities to you folks looking at this because we kind of already been paused for two years or if you could just give a recap of what's been happening since July 2024.

1037
02:21:22,000 --> 02:21:31,000
To the mayor through the council, so since we've received this this file, what we've done is we've been

1038
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:41,000
Looking into, we've had a building assessment completed, so we've had some understanding of what the condition is as of 2025.

1039
02:21:41,000 --> 02:21:52,000
We've also been doing our due diligence on assessing the whole project being able to understand what all the constraints and complications are.

1040
02:21:52,000 --> 02:22:03,000
Talking to the archaeologists as well to understand what the constraints are, what it means to be a cemetery as well.

1041
02:22:03,000 --> 02:22:19,000
And sort of beginning to develop how we would do the process of a community engagement and and be able to understand, you know, what we're hearing from the public as well, having some discussions with with the public and different groups about.

1042
02:22:20,000 --> 02:22:24,000
There sort of that need to to talk about the building.

1043
02:22:26,000 --> 02:22:43,000
Okay, that's great. I feel like we have been making progress over the two years and we're going to take a little more time to do one last look at the building and then we can continue on with the park planning. Thanks for the discussion. I call for the question.

1044
02:22:49,000 --> 02:22:54,000
Thank you.

1045
02:23:19,000 --> 02:23:31,000
And the motion carries colleagues, we've come to the mid afternoon recess, how about we we still got a significant agenda ahead of us, are you good with 20 minutes, can we come back at 330.

1046
02:23:31,000 --> 02:23:33,000
Okay, see you.

1047
02:23:33,000 --> 02:23:38,000
See you at 330, yes, let's do that photograph with our jerseys. Thank you.

1048
02:23:49,000 --> 02:23:54,000
Thank you.

1049
02:24:19,000 --> 02:24:29,000
Thank you.

1050
02:24:49,000 --> 02:24:59,000
Thank you.

1051
02:25:19,000 --> 02:25:29,000
Thank you.

1052
02:25:49,000 --> 02:25:59,000
Thank you.

1053
02:26:19,000 --> 02:26:29,000
Thank you.

1054
02:26:49,000 --> 02:26:59,000
Thank you.

1055
02:27:19,000 --> 02:27:29,000
Thank you.

1056
02:27:49,000 --> 02:27:59,000
Thank you.

1057
02:28:19,000 --> 02:28:29,000
Thank you.

1058
02:28:49,000 --> 02:29:18,000
Thank you.

1059
02:29:19,000 --> 02:29:29,000
Thank you.

1060
02:29:49,000 --> 02:29:59,000
Thank you.

1061
02:37:00,000 --> 02:37:30,000
E'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i'n i

1062
02:48:30,000 --> 02:49:00,000
Un i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r i'r

1063
02:50:00,000 --> 02:50:24,720
M'rwyddw

1064
02:50:24,720 --> 02:50:28,440
Rwyf wedi i'r dda'r nhw.

1065
02:50:28,440 --> 02:50:32,620
Mae'n rwneud treith.

1066
02:50:32,620 --> 02:50:35,680
E'n llaw.

1067
02:50:35,680 --> 02:50:39,220
Rwyf wedi.

1068
02:50:39,220 --> 02:50:41,520
Y���yr bod ymfrwyf wediddio,

1069
02:50:41,520 --> 02:50:43,620
myr â w ekmiş o'r donde feb gy bus i'r.

1070
02:50:43,620 --> 02:50:45,600
Mae'n rwneud treith.

1071
02:50:45,600 --> 02:50:49,780
E'r myr plans o'r mael ei.

1072
02:50:49,780 --> 02:50:54,180
eelau'r gwneud y caelau'r 12.26.

1073
02:50:56,020 --> 02:50:58,380
Si'n iawn i yda'yw.

1074
02:51:00,080 --> 02:51:01,700
Y dddwch y fru'r Pwyemwy,

1075
02:51:01,700 --> 02:51:05,340
a w tenu'r Mwysch yn dddwch y dddau'r yn ddwch.

1076
02:51:05,340 --> 02:51:08,020
La'r gwneud yn ddwch,

1077
02:51:08,020 --> 02:51:09,820
mae yn yddwch i dddwch?

1078
02:51:09,820 --> 02:51:14,020
a betweith eu ydy byddame yw section se i'n bwrll vilwn'w hyn yn fwrw gyder ynürw wirws ni'n

1079
02:51:14,020 --> 02:51:16,420
eler bwrth ysunadori aendau'r.

1080
02:51:16,420 --> 02:51:20,920
Wyffyddyni darlingliwhistlew, twennu o ddim yn o'r maenwn ywyd yn y sweep hwnern iech

1081
02:51:20,920 --> 02:51:24,060
o dovb henwyd yn ywdyda dywaneu migrateau?

1082
02:51:24,060 --> 02:51:26,020
Di趏dd ymaplan, un gwendu?

1083
02:51:26,020 --> 02:51:28,180
Deau nad wedi ywyd yn yddwn y dobl yn eradw".

1084
02:51:28,180 --> 02:51:30,640
Zwraicendedi âydł.

1085
02:51:30,640 --> 02:51:54,080
Mae yn mwyllwch yn ymthoscwyllwch.

1086
02:51:54,080 --> 02:51:56,000
consumol yna maixain gwneeth aft.

1087
02:51:56,000 --> 02:51:58,400
Oedmedenau'n meixag gwnefer ynawLookr rhoi dedu wham Pendyclock legal i fy y maedos

1088
02:51:58,400 --> 02:52:00,560
ydywed o'r busin.

1089
02:52:00,560 --> 02:52:04,560
L douf dr deib rhoi ifa'r dysliol i aferwydd driwn Acres Oedmedhan Oed Fargo

1090
02:52:04,560 --> 02:52:05,680
Gwrdwaedon.

1091
02:52:05,680 --> 02:52:09,680
Ddwell D 외edau bod hoor am y Metapillcus.

1092
02:52:09,680 --> 02:52:10,380
Dwyllaelly diolguin llawn.

1093
02:52:10,380 --> 02:52:11,600
Geo ddiu'neau, mae Maenham bleru munbern i � 1968.

1094
02:52:11,600 --> 02:52:15,920
To'u llaw注,

1095
02:52:15,920 --> 02:52:18,000
mae Oedmedun i gwnepar, am yma bygnau lemitio yn deeth a fy hwell Dythau

1096
02:52:18,000 --> 02:52:35,700
Durew nhw, 1,ül pobl wliwfydio lleène

1097
02:52:35,700 --> 02:52:43,140
Mrs euich that bob writhig ddil o'n batterfip interferodotithовi,ניwas eiffel o talf iedd, nidd'n ni'n

1098
02:52:43,140 --> 02:52:54,140
fiddys gweld chwill hewn y snapnnydd contribution oedd ddim adonnau

1099
02:52:54,140 --> 02:52:59,140
sy'n gwysniw, fi aded Bozard i f抓 g fobwrd i gydon oedd mwy ich�oma

1100
02:52:59,140 --> 02:53:01,380
aed, aed, aed i hole lleeth sylic, Feth Work Hipp.

1101
02:53:02,420 --> 02:53:04,380
Aedil.

1102
02:53:04,380 --> 02:53:09,480
oedd weichod yn wychodori ni ddim yn ydych hynny.

1103
02:53:09,480 --> 02:53:13,640
G yr yma'u'n yr yw eichodol gwnaudau'n yn ydwlu hynny?

1104
02:53:13,640 --> 02:53:17,020
Oedd y byddig y sefchio dyngu yn ydwlu'n yda'n ydwlb oedd yn eichodol

1105
02:53:17,020 --> 02:53:23,420
a sizeu'n eiズfchio, yffir i'n ydychodol ac gennyd y am ydychodl

1106
02:53:23,420 --> 02:53:26,700
i'r gennydmed ydwlau, felly ddim yda'n ydychodol

1107
02:53:26,700 --> 02:53:29,620
weichodol, ac mae wedi ydychodol oedd yn ydwlol

1108
02:53:29,620 --> 02:53:33,420
that is considered to be standard for, um,

1109
02:53:33,420 --> 02:53:35,780
once approval is given by a counsellor

1110
02:53:35,780 --> 02:53:40,020
for that funding to actually get rid and out by the finance team.

1111
02:53:42,020 --> 02:53:43,860
Merrill Philmore through to the counsellor.

1112
02:53:43,860 --> 02:53:46,980
That is a no-one issue that we did observe in the last election

1113
02:53:46,980 --> 02:53:48,820
and is something working with our finance department

1114
02:53:48,820 --> 02:53:50,420
to make sure that we can clean up

1115
02:53:50,420 --> 02:53:53,460
and have those completed within those timeframes.

1116
02:53:53,460 --> 02:53:54,660
With the way we cut checks

1117
02:53:54,660 --> 02:53:56,100
and the way things are provided for,

1118
02:53:56,100 --> 02:53:58,260
we want to make sure we're not not giving funds

1119
02:53:58,260 --> 02:53:59,780
that people at the same time,

1120
02:53:59,780 --> 02:54:03,460
so we'll provide an update prior to the 2020 election

1121
02:54:03,460 --> 02:54:05,060
with probably through an email

1122
02:54:05,060 --> 02:54:07,780
through a memo just to make sure that all the counsellors

1123
02:54:07,780 --> 02:54:10,580
and the council support office or the timelines

1124
02:54:10,580 --> 02:54:12,420
and also providing the timelines to counsellor

1125
02:54:12,420 --> 02:54:15,060
of when those checks need to be requested for

1126
02:54:15,060 --> 02:54:16,100
in order to meet the timeline

1127
02:54:16,100 --> 02:54:17,300
to the new administrative order.

1128
02:54:17,300 --> 02:54:19,620
Is that part of communications that goes to the public as well

1129
02:54:19,620 --> 02:54:21,940
because like the organizations that reach out to us

1130
02:54:21,940 --> 02:54:24,020
are probably going to be hopefully unaware

1131
02:54:24,020 --> 02:54:26,020
that there might be a time constraint

1132
02:54:26,020 --> 02:54:30,100
on them as they're approaching when an election period might occur.

1133
02:54:30,100 --> 02:54:31,460
Through the merit of the counsellor,

1134
02:54:31,460 --> 02:54:32,580
that's a very good point.

1135
02:54:32,580 --> 02:54:34,340
We'll take that and note that for when we get

1136
02:54:34,340 --> 02:54:37,540
in our preparations for the upcoming election in 2028

1137
02:54:37,540 --> 02:54:38,980
and we'll try to provide something

1138
02:54:38,980 --> 02:54:40,740
because that may be something that counsellors want

1139
02:54:40,740 --> 02:54:41,860
to include in their newsletters

1140
02:54:41,860 --> 02:54:43,060
or things that they're sending out

1141
02:54:43,060 --> 02:54:44,980
to the people that are requesting funds.

1142
02:54:44,980 --> 02:54:46,740
So we'll make sure that we build in that

1143
02:54:46,740 --> 02:54:49,060
as part of our election planning processes.

1144
02:54:49,060 --> 02:54:49,940
Okay, thanks.

1145
02:54:49,940 --> 02:54:51,620
I'm sure that can handle it with internal processes.

1146
02:54:53,780 --> 02:54:54,580
Thank you very much.

1147
02:54:54,580 --> 02:54:56,020
Councillor Hartoing, please.

1148
02:54:56,020 --> 02:54:57,380
Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

1149
02:54:57,380 --> 02:54:59,780
I just have one quick question, Eon.

1150
02:54:59,780 --> 02:55:03,540
I am looking at Seg's Subsection 9-1 of Skidulae

1151
02:55:03,540 --> 02:55:07,620
of the Cotoconduct for elected officials of Ministry of Order.

1152
02:55:07,620 --> 02:55:10,500
It comments on the use of municipal property

1153
02:55:10,500 --> 02:55:12,580
including surplus material or equipment

1154
02:55:12,580 --> 02:55:14,580
for personal convenience or profit.

1155
02:55:14,580 --> 02:55:16,180
Doesn't say anything about municipal staff?

1156
02:55:16,980 --> 02:55:18,980
I'm wondering, is that reflected anywhere else?

1157
02:55:21,620 --> 02:55:23,380
Through the merit of the counsellor municipal staff

1158
02:55:23,780 --> 02:55:27,100
Siwgodip Roeddeth i'r Eublu Ioli yn economyr best f'n nynalled ni ddim ar nodio la stor jużeth Gardefl ein bob ddim.

1159
02:55:27,100 --> 02:55:42,980
Euddu afer sydd o'r iubreeth i'nifer ac rydygl yn ydi, afer eu, bet gardiy, ar yn llarfeu iod ед ag, afer krypsod Paperdale,

1160
02:55:42,980 --> 02:55:48,260
neu'n hymlu i oτι gaz ddu 잘�iman.

1161
02:55:48,260 --> 02:55:53,100
T paperbethfeudau, weith theregy omed ebron ollen o gwze واfer hynodydd yn y oedd âm a'r weda.

1162
02:55:53,300 --> 02:56:09,380
Pachi

1163
02:56:09,380 --> 02:56:31,800
Dynes dyf ac dduyd yn hynny llehwlwywf, doethnyg a Bohl iawn y� ar ymfenuud

1164
02:56:31,800 --> 02:56:33,980
o yogurt syfwaith o oeld ym Faes?

1165
02:56:33,980 --> 02:56:36,660
Efrijn, a dduyd cydo'n mae dd hiffdy, mae a yn maenau wna ddwlod, a blAn cyflaf conagdym prfredo chi'n

1166
02:56:36,660 --> 02:56:37,860
yn â ôn cael pf John Paul Wys woodlay Wilwf�yd

1167
02:56:37,860 --> 02:56:42,380
Dynaedd plebael ydyn ddeol yma, ddbeth, yn'n gwe mlfddw, dwael niceu yma,udaf ynaedol ei yngsdegwydd".

1168
02:56:42,380 --> 02:56:46,300
Dynaedol atraenel ydeol ac ynaedol â eus o bwythu o bwythu rynu, modu ydeol i ddiol

1169
02:56:46,300 --> 02:56:51,380
i ddiol, eus rynion ydyn nhw'n gwebw, ddiolau, ffr yn gwebw ydyl ddaol i'n gdo'n gwebw, dddol ei drwyllau

1170
02:56:51,380 --> 02:56:55,140
i'n gwebw eu cяgynaidau'r gwebw.

1171
02:56:55,140 --> 02:57:00,580
Ylennu atwerio ymael i'r atwerio fysnol ar fysnol ymael, mae'r ddwybod, ddwybod ddwybod yn dydymdyd, ydol'ŵn fynd, eu'r

1172
02:57:00,580 --> 02:57:05,100
yn eitheg yn fysnol ar eitheg, o mewn o ddefnyddwydd aedau yn yda, o mewn o ddefnydd.

1173
02:57:05,100 --> 02:57:07,420
On yddo ywyddod yn ymael ac yn gydaadw ddefnydd.

1174
02:57:12,220 --> 02:57:15,220
Mus can aedau gwybod ddwybod ddio ymael.

1175
02:57:15,220 --> 02:57:17,720
Öyleu ydaadwydwau, yddo ydaadwyd yn ymael, fydd.

1176
02:57:17,720 --> 02:57:20,420
Ymael ac yn ythdod iedau gwybod ddwybod ddwybod, nor yn ydaadwydwyd.

1177
02:57:20,420 --> 02:57:22,420
i'n tend of the motion.

1178
02:57:22,420 --> 02:57:24,420
Thank you, Mr Mayer.

1179
02:57:24,420 --> 02:57:25,420
I'm not much discussion on this.

1180
02:57:25,420 --> 02:57:27,420
I think the staff report speaks for itself.

1181
02:57:27,420 --> 02:57:30,420
I'm just asking my colleagues for support here.

1182
02:57:30,420 --> 02:57:34,420
Sack o'main o'r Hawkeys Association is a great association.

1183
02:57:34,420 --> 02:57:36,420
They've had long saying, long saying agreement

1184
02:57:36,420 --> 02:57:38,420
at the Sack full Sports Stadium.

1185
02:57:38,420 --> 02:57:40,420
And with that, I call for the question.

1186
02:57:40,420 --> 02:57:44,420
If there's no other question, that's been called.

1187
02:58:20,420 --> 02:58:28,420
The motion carries.

1188
02:58:28,420 --> 02:58:29,420
Thank you.

1189
02:58:29,420 --> 02:58:32,420
That brings us to 15, 5, 2, 4, 9, Glendale, Dr I've Sackville,

1190
02:58:32,420 --> 02:58:34,420
Lester Market value lease agreement.

1191
02:58:34,420 --> 02:58:37,420
Bedford Sackville Learning Network Society.

1192
02:58:37,420 --> 02:58:40,420
And we'll go back to Councillor Gilles.

1193
02:58:40,420 --> 02:58:42,420
I'm Sken Mr Mayer.

1194
02:58:42,420 --> 02:58:45,420
I move that Health Act Regional Council authorised the lease agreement

1195
02:58:45,420 --> 02:58:49,420
between HRM, the landlord,

1196
02:58:49,420 --> 02:58:51,420
and the Bedford Sackville Learning Network Society

1197
02:58:51,420 --> 02:58:53,420
to tenant and authorise the mayor and municipal clerk

1198
02:58:53,420 --> 02:58:56,420
to execute the less than market value lease agreement

1199
02:58:56,420 --> 02:58:59,420
for the premises located at 4, 9, Glendale, Dr I've Sackville.

1200
02:58:59,420 --> 02:59:02,420
Based on the information contained in the staff report,

1201
02:59:02,420 --> 02:59:04,420
dated May 19th, 2026.

1202
02:59:04,420 --> 02:59:07,420
Seconded by Councillor Gilles.

1203
02:59:07,420 --> 02:59:11,420
And not much discussion on this again.

1204
02:59:11,420 --> 02:59:13,420
Same thing.

1205
02:59:13,420 --> 02:59:15,420
I'm looking for my colleague's support.

1206
02:59:15,420 --> 02:59:17,420
Great, great initiative here.

1207
02:59:17,420 --> 02:59:20,420
And I support the staff recommendation.

1208
02:59:20,420 --> 02:59:21,420
OK.

1209
02:59:21,420 --> 02:59:22,420
Thank you very much.

1210
02:59:22,420 --> 02:59:25,420
I think I heard Councillor Sanamong call a question.

1211
02:59:43,420 --> 02:59:47,420
And the motion carries.

1212
02:59:47,420 --> 02:59:50,420
And we then call a skip over a few items

1213
02:59:50,420 --> 02:59:52,420
that were passed on consent,

1214
02:59:52,420 --> 02:59:56,420
bringing us to item 158-1 under members of Caltz.

1215
02:59:56,420 --> 02:59:57,420
OK.

1216
02:59:57,420 --> 02:59:59,420
What have I done now?

1217
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:19,840
I beg your pardon. 1561, case HRTG-2025-0219, request to include two three one nine major street

1218
03:00:19,840 --> 03:00:25,120
health acts in registry of heritage properties, for the health acts regional municipality, and

1219
03:00:25,120 --> 03:00:28,120
it was council, or hence, she requested this come off, council, hensh.

1220
03:00:28,120 --> 03:00:34,320
Thank you, Mr. Mayor, I read the motion. I moved the health effects regional council,

1221
03:00:34,320 --> 03:00:41,120
set a date for a heritage hearing to consider the inclusion of 2319 Mainest Street

1222
03:00:41,120 --> 03:00:46,120
health effects, and the registry of registry of history. Registry of history.

1223
03:00:46,120 --> 03:00:57,120
Historic, excuse me. Oh, Lord. Oh, my God, I can't even, registry of history. Heritage.

1224
03:00:57,120 --> 03:01:04,120
Good. Property for health effects regional municipality, as shown on map one of the staff report

1225
03:01:04,120 --> 03:01:12,120
dated April 22nd, 2026 as a municipal heritage property under the Heritage Property Act.

1226
03:01:12,120 --> 03:01:19,120
So, move. Seconded by Councillor White, and Councillor Hensh, would you like to say anything more?

1227
03:01:19,120 --> 03:01:27,120
So, I just wanted to bring this one up because, you know, it's pretty, you know, important to the community.

1228
03:01:28,120 --> 03:01:35,120
The, their own by the days, by the day, in particular, who, you know, has then so much in this community.

1229
03:01:35,120 --> 03:01:40,120
And I just wanted to, you know, sort of put a light on, you know, what's been going on with

1230
03:01:40,120 --> 03:01:46,120
by the day in his, in his literature and everything. He does have a book out right now, our his daughter,

1231
03:01:46,120 --> 03:01:55,120
Melinda Day, has a book out called, buddy. And, you know, there's a lot of, a lot of amazing things, historical things in there.

1232
03:01:55,120 --> 03:02:03,120
The things that he has done, the things that he's, you know, it's, and the power of the book Melinda Day reflects on the life of

1233
03:02:03,120 --> 03:02:10,120
of her father, Dumbledore, Buddy Day, an extraordinary man who's influenced extended far beyond the box and ring

1234
03:02:10,120 --> 03:02:20,120
from his days as a renowned athlete to his pivotal role as a mentor advocate and activist days legacy is one of the resilience

1235
03:02:20,120 --> 03:02:28,120
integrity and love for his people through a poignant memories and vivid storytelling Melinda Day shows

1236
03:02:28,120 --> 03:02:36,120
insights into her father's complex life. His work is a sergeant arms, his battle against systemic racism,

1237
03:02:36,120 --> 03:02:44,120
his tiredness efforts to uplift marginalized voices. This book not only honors days remarkable achievements,

1238
03:02:44,120 --> 03:02:51,120
but also serves as a testament to the deep lasting impact. One individual can have on community.

1239
03:02:51,120 --> 03:02:59,120
It is a tribute to a true champion inside and out of the ring. So I just wanted to,

1240
03:02:59,120 --> 03:03:05,120
bring that to light and, you know, if you haven't got the book, go get the book, the book is good.

1241
03:03:05,120 --> 03:03:10,120
That's all I wanted to say, Mr. Mayor.

1242
03:03:11,120 --> 03:03:13,120
Excuse me, thank you very much.

1243
03:03:13,120 --> 03:03:18,120
I don't see any other names on the list. Questions called.

1244
03:03:31,120 --> 03:03:33,120
The motion carries.

1245
03:03:33,120 --> 03:03:43,120
And now we will go on to 1581 and Councillor Austin. Would you like the floor?

1246
03:03:43,120 --> 03:03:46,120
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just scroll in here.

1247
03:03:46,120 --> 03:03:51,120
I move that in accordance with section 7 of administrative order 53 of the municipal alcohol policy,

1248
03:03:51,120 --> 03:03:56,120
Halifax regional council grant permission to the downtown Dartmouth Business Commission to serve alcohol in a

1249
03:03:56,120 --> 03:04:02,120
specifically defined section of cell wounds upon park for a concert event on September 6 and

1250
03:04:02,120 --> 03:04:08,120
that the serving of alcohol in this park shall be governed by the market by a market value license agreement.

1251
03:04:08,120 --> 03:04:11,120
Seconded by Councillor Mancini.

1252
03:04:11,120 --> 03:04:20,120
Thank you, colleagues. So this is just more in the line of our usual that we see this motion for the arm view over

1253
03:04:20,120 --> 03:04:27,120
and Councillor Clarries district. The downtown Business Commission would like to try out having some alcohol

1254
03:04:27,120 --> 03:04:32,120
at an upcoming concert. And so I'd like to see them have the chance to try it.

1255
03:04:32,120 --> 03:04:38,120
See what the community what their response is, what the community tolerance to this changes.

1256
03:04:38,120 --> 03:04:43,120
And if it doesn't work, we won't continue. And if it does, well, maybe it's something new.

1257
03:04:43,120 --> 03:04:46,120
So right now it's just an experiment.

1258
03:04:47,120 --> 03:04:55,120
Because it needs to try the booths. No keys are underage. Councillor Mancini.

1259
03:04:55,120 --> 03:05:02,120
Seeing no other, okay, questions have been called.

1260
03:05:03,120 --> 03:05:17,120
And the motion carries. Thank you very much for that.

1261
03:05:17,120 --> 03:05:31,120
This brings us to item 16.1 under motions and the floor is the deputy mayor's place.

1262
03:05:32,120 --> 03:05:35,120
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1263
03:05:35,120 --> 03:05:42,120
I moved that Halifax Regional Council direct the chief administrative officer to prepare staff report

1264
03:05:42,120 --> 03:05:49,120
respecting meetings involving members of council and private or external interest groups, where core may be present,

1265
03:05:49,120 --> 03:05:55,120
including those occurring outside formally advertised meetings of council or its committees.

1266
03:05:56,120 --> 03:06:03,120
The report shall include a review of the requirements of the Halifax Regional Municipal Charter

1267
03:06:03,120 --> 03:06:12,120
and applicable administrative orders, including administrative order one with respect to core and what constitutes a meeting of council.

1268
03:06:12,120 --> 03:06:20,120
Be clarification of the rules governing in-camera meetings, including the conditions under which matters may be discussed privately

1269
03:06:20,120 --> 03:06:24,120
and the requirements for public notice and reporting.

1270
03:06:24,120 --> 03:06:30,120
See an assessment of risks associated with members of council meeting with private interest or advocacy groups,

1271
03:06:30,120 --> 03:06:36,120
where core may present outside duly constituted meetings, including potential contraventions,

1272
03:06:36,120 --> 03:06:42,120
of administrative order one, open meeting requirements and applicable legislation,

1273
03:06:43,120 --> 03:06:51,120
and analysis of potential implications under council's code of conduct arising from participating in such meetings

1274
03:06:51,120 --> 03:07:02,120
and an overview of existing policies and practices governing the use of city hall spaces including Halifax Hall by private and external groups

1275
03:07:02,120 --> 03:07:09,120
and whether such use may facilitate meetings involving council forum.

1276
03:07:10,120 --> 03:07:13,120
Thank you, Councillor Kent.

1277
03:07:13,120 --> 03:07:24,120
So, I've been asked a few times about the origin of this motion and it really stems from a request that we've had from an external group

1278
03:07:24,120 --> 03:07:33,120
to meet with us here in Halifax Hall downstairs and the invitation was extended to all of council.

1279
03:07:33,120 --> 03:07:37,120
There's been a number of questions raised.

1280
03:07:37,120 --> 03:07:43,120
I think amongst us around, you know, what constitutes core, what constitutes a private meeting.

1281
03:07:43,120 --> 03:07:49,120
Is this something I should attend or not attend, which, you know, raised some concerns for me.

1282
03:07:49,120 --> 03:07:59,120
This motion is really about clarity both for us as a council and for the public and it is asking staff to review and clearly outline the rules.

1283
03:07:59,120 --> 03:08:03,120
So, we're all operating with the same understanding.

1284
03:08:03,120 --> 03:08:15,120
As well as, you know, extends that to our external stakeholders and external groups around what the process is for meeting with the core of council.

1285
03:08:15,120 --> 03:08:18,120
It's really about good governance.

1286
03:08:18,120 --> 03:08:24,120
It's not about any single event or any organizing organization in particular.

1287
03:08:24,120 --> 03:08:36,120
It's just that ensuring we have kind of clear and consistent guidance on what constitutes a meeting of council when core matters and how we engage appropriately.

1288
03:08:36,120 --> 03:08:41,120
You know, we are a public body and I think as a public body, we're how to a higher standard.

1289
03:08:41,120 --> 03:08:44,120
We're not the private sector.

1290
03:08:44,120 --> 03:08:51,120
We need to be mindful of transparency, accountability and openness in our discussion and decision making.

1291
03:08:51,120 --> 03:08:55,120
It's about transparency and public accountability.

1292
03:08:55,120 --> 03:08:59,120
You know, this is also about public trust.

1293
03:08:59,120 --> 03:09:07,120
There's a lot of questions out there in the public around, you know, what our motivations are, how our decisions are made.

1294
03:09:07,120 --> 03:09:10,120
And rightly or wrongly perceptions matter.

1295
03:09:10,120 --> 03:09:20,120
And I think that there's a public accountability piece to this and then it's important that conversations that inform our decisions when we're in core.

1296
03:09:20,120 --> 03:09:24,120
We're visible to the public.

1297
03:09:24,120 --> 03:09:29,120
I want to be clear this is not about limiting engagement with stakeholders.

1298
03:09:29,120 --> 03:09:31,120
I do think that that is essential.

1299
03:09:31,120 --> 03:09:43,120
You know, discussions with industry groups, community groups and advocates all have an important role to play and informing us and in helping inform our decision making.

1300
03:09:43,120 --> 03:09:51,120
However, I think that engagement must happen in a way that again is transparent, accessible and fair to all stakeholders.

1301
03:09:51,120 --> 03:10:01,120
How do we decide which group we allow to host a meeting of quorum in how a facts hall or which group we don't allow who gets to make those decisions.

1302
03:10:01,120 --> 03:10:07,120
And what are the consequences if people decide not to attend because they have concern about code of conduct?

1303
03:10:07,120 --> 03:10:10,120
What dialogues are they missing out on?

1304
03:10:10,120 --> 03:10:19,120
We have processes in place already. We have standing committees. We have public meetings. We have opportunities for presentations in dialogue.

1305
03:10:19,120 --> 03:10:30,120
These structures exist so that all members of council can participate appropriately and the public can observe and understand the conversation.

1306
03:10:30,120 --> 03:10:35,120
This motion is about reinforcing the importance of those processes.

1307
03:10:35,120 --> 03:10:40,120
It's about fairness and equal access and it's about avoiding gray areas.

1308
03:10:40,120 --> 03:10:45,120
So, you know, again, this is not about respecting engagement.

1309
03:10:45,120 --> 03:10:59,120
It's just ensuring that engagement happens in the right forum, in the right way, and in full public view, particularly when we are meeting as a council in quorum of council.

1310
03:10:59,120 --> 03:11:06,120
And I really think that this will help strengthen good governance, public confidence and transparency.

1311
03:11:06,120 --> 03:11:18,120
So, you know, it's our responsibility to ensure that council businesses conducted openly, fairly in a way that the public can see, understand and trust.

1312
03:11:18,120 --> 03:11:21,120
Thank you very much and we'll move to council candidates.

1313
03:11:21,120 --> 03:11:26,120
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Councillor Cuddle, for putting this on in front of us.

1314
03:11:26,120 --> 03:11:36,120
I will be supporting it, but I want to add sort of a context. I think that certainly I've experienced and I think some of the others I have around.

1315
03:11:36,120 --> 03:11:50,120
There is a gray area, particularly when we first came back in 2020, where it was said very, very specifically, you are not to ever gather in a situation where you're over quorum.

1316
03:11:50,120 --> 03:12:01,120
Period. And then, as time went on, we asked for some consideration of being able to gather on a social, in a social context.

1317
03:12:01,120 --> 03:12:06,120
At first, that was said, no, the interpreter legal interpretation was no.

1318
03:12:06,120 --> 03:12:19,120
Then later, we sort of pushed that boundary, and because there was a need for us after particularly after COVID and spending, I think, two years, we didn't get to know each other beyond a screen face.

1319
03:12:19,120 --> 03:12:26,120
Where we wanted to gather, we needed to gather to get to know each other. There was a relaxing of that scenario.

1320
03:12:26,120 --> 03:12:45,120
I know at the Board of Police Commissioners, we also had were very clearly stated and advised, you cannot gather without in a quorum scenario on a social setting and then, as well, in any kind of a workshop setting.

1321
03:12:45,120 --> 03:13:00,120
And then, but the need, the reality is, I believe, that as counselors, we have and should be able to meet and have conversations.

1322
03:13:00,120 --> 03:13:09,120
Our should we have conversations that lead to us taking some position that is collective? No. I don't think so at all.

1323
03:13:09,120 --> 03:13:17,120
But, and also, but there are times, so, for instance, on the Board of Police Commission, we had to do strategic planning.

1324
03:13:17,120 --> 03:13:26,120
We have to do workshops where we get together and do training. And those are all with the Board's full capacity.

1325
03:13:26,120 --> 03:13:31,120
And yet, there's always this question, can we do it? Should we do it?

1326
03:13:31,120 --> 03:13:44,120
And I think we need that clarified. What I really would like to see, because this is a big, I think this is a big report for staff to be creating.

1327
03:13:44,120 --> 03:14:00,120
And I don't know what department it would do that. I think I asked that from maybe it's the legal department. Maybe I don't know because this is really, I think, as well, around the admin order of how we do our business.

1328
03:14:00,120 --> 03:14:13,120
And also, on the certainly the legal context of interpretation and depends on who you ask. And that's, that's a shame, because that just puts that on us back, where we don't know, again, whether or not it's gray or not.

1329
03:14:13,120 --> 03:14:29,120
So I think it's important that there's a jurisdictional scan of other cities, what they have in place may have things may have some form of a system in place that clarifies these cities that are comparable

1330
03:14:29,120 --> 03:14:39,120
to ours, municipalities, and I think that has to be involved as well. And I don't know that we saw that we see that there, but I would like that considered.

1331
03:14:39,120 --> 03:14:58,120
The code of conduct piece is, it appears over the last couple of years that code of conduct cease to be in front of us constantly much more than it ever did in our first few years and certainly from my experience before.

1332
03:14:58,120 --> 03:15:00,120
But also the.

1333
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:08,160
We had strengthened the code of conduct for the Board of Police Commission. I'm speaking to that,

1334
03:15:08,160 --> 03:15:15,440
because that's where I've experienced it the most. But also, we've had situations where we wish it were clear

1335
03:15:15,440 --> 03:15:22,240
here. But also, the province and the Minister of Federation of Municipalities, I think, we're in this NSFM,

1336
03:15:22,240 --> 03:15:29,920
came down with a new code. And then the province is or has downloaded a system for us.

1337
03:15:29,920 --> 03:15:38,080
And it's gotta be clarified for us. So I'm happy to see this go forward. I look forward to the

1338
03:15:38,080 --> 03:15:43,200
information that comes back. But I really want to hear as well on other jurisdictional scans,

1339
03:15:43,200 --> 03:15:52,960
because we, it's one thing to create something that is, I think this is very, I think it could be very subjective,

1340
03:15:54,400 --> 03:15:58,640
depending on who's writing the report. I'm not disparaging anyone who might be writing the report.

1341
03:15:58,640 --> 03:16:05,760
I'm just saying that if there is nothing that we can kind of compare to as far as the clarity,

1342
03:16:06,400 --> 03:16:13,200
and we do need it puts, it puts the question. I mean, obviously, we get to debate it at the end of

1343
03:16:13,200 --> 03:16:20,560
the day. So that's my thoughts. Thank you very much, Councillor Steele, please.

1344
03:16:22,560 --> 03:16:29,520
Thank you, Mayor. And thank you, Deputy Mayor Cuddle, for putting this on the, putting this motion forward.

1345
03:16:29,520 --> 03:16:34,720
I, I've been the person that's been advocating for a municipal lobbyist,

1346
03:16:34,720 --> 03:16:41,680
right lobbyist registry. I know we actually wrote to the province and requested to be covered

1347
03:16:41,680 --> 03:16:48,320
under them. I think we're still waiting for the final response on that. I do believe that we need to

1348
03:16:48,320 --> 03:16:56,640
conduct our business in a transparent and open fashion. We do have a number of standing committees where

1349
03:16:57,600 --> 03:17:05,920
where groups and associations can come in and speak to council directly, but also do this in a public

1350
03:17:05,920 --> 03:17:13,840
forum. I, and I, I believe as well, if there are groups out there that feel we don't have the

1351
03:17:13,840 --> 03:17:20,480
standing committees that they would like to speak to, or we need alternative types of committees.

1352
03:17:20,480 --> 03:17:25,440
I'd be supportive of having that looked at. I know we are currently, I think there's currently a

1353
03:17:25,440 --> 03:17:31,760
review underway of the committees that we presently have, both the advisory committees as well as,

1354
03:17:31,760 --> 03:17:37,520
as well as the standing committees. So it would be interesting to see of anything comes back about

1355
03:17:37,520 --> 03:17:45,680
perhaps gaps. One thing that, a strike that struck me when I read the report for the affordable housing

1356
03:17:45,680 --> 03:17:52,800
strategy that will be discussed at CPED on Thursday. There was a quote in there that, that troubles me,

1357
03:17:52,800 --> 03:17:59,520
and that, this is one of the key reasons why I'm very supportive of Deputy Mayor Cuttle's

1358
03:17:59,520 --> 03:18:06,960
motion. The quote is, many respondents perceive that HRM planning practices tend to respond

1359
03:18:06,960 --> 03:18:15,600
primarily to the interests of the development community. So that, that quote concerns me, because I believe

1360
03:18:15,600 --> 03:18:22,000
that residents feel, or the people that responded, what they're, what they're feeling is that

1361
03:18:22,000 --> 03:18:29,200
perhaps these, perhaps decisions are made, not in the public, not in a public forum.

1362
03:18:29,760 --> 03:18:37,760
I, so I'm fully supportive of this, and I have concerns about some recent invitations that we've

1363
03:18:37,760 --> 03:18:45,200
received, because I'm concerned about what constitutes an in-camera meeting. I know we received

1364
03:18:45,200 --> 03:18:52,880
some very detailed and rich onboarding material as new counselors, which I believe addressed that,

1365
03:18:52,880 --> 03:19:00,720
but I don't think it hurts to obtain some more clarity. So thank you very much, Deputy Mayor

1366
03:19:00,720 --> 03:19:06,560
Cuttle, for bringing this forward. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor Gillis, please.

1367
03:19:07,680 --> 03:19:13,920
Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I appreciate the attention to the motion that is put forward today. However, I think

1368
03:19:13,920 --> 03:19:20,480
it's important to not limit any group at the table. I think as elected officials, I, like,

1369
03:19:20,480 --> 03:19:25,600
I'm willing to meet with anybody who has any kind of concern over anything, really.

1370
03:19:28,880 --> 03:19:37,120
I, yeah, I feel like if we move forward this, at least parts of it anyway, specifically, see,

1371
03:19:37,680 --> 03:19:42,560
I feel like we're limited people. I mean, if we're going to limit one group, we have to limit all of them,

1372
03:19:43,520 --> 03:19:49,920
and I don't feel like that's really conducive of what our cloud is. So I don't think I'm

1373
03:19:49,920 --> 03:19:54,960
going to be able to support this today, but I am looking forward to hear what my council colleagues

1374
03:19:54,960 --> 03:20:01,760
have to say about it. Thank you. Thank you. I see Councillor Stil has raised her. That's

1375
03:20:01,760 --> 03:20:07,680
intentional. Yeah, okay. Would you mind, I have a, if I, if I jumped in, so Deputy Mayor, maybe you

1376
03:20:07,680 --> 03:20:24,480
need to swap with me for a moment. Thank you.

1377
03:20:24,560 --> 03:20:42,960
Thank you. Thanks very much. So, colleagues, I understand why the Deputy Mayor is brought

1378
03:20:42,960 --> 03:20:50,320
this forward. It does, it does raise a couple of concerns for me. I'll, too, and I'll tell you what

1379
03:20:50,400 --> 03:20:56,720
they are. The first is, you know, we're in a time right now where our incredible staff have

1380
03:20:56,720 --> 03:21:02,880
hundreds of open files. They're dealing with backlog of staff reports, trying to get more houses

1381
03:21:02,880 --> 03:21:07,680
built, trying to move transit, trying to work on our budget to keep the prices. They're trying to do

1382
03:21:07,680 --> 03:21:13,360
all the things that we've asked them to do, and there are, we've asked them to do a lot.

1383
03:21:13,680 --> 03:21:20,000
Everything in the, in the Deputy Mayor's motion is readily available on the Internet. I could

1384
03:21:20,000 --> 03:21:26,000
Google it in five minutes. ChatGPT could write three important probably 45 seconds. It's all there. We know

1385
03:21:26,000 --> 03:21:32,000
the rules are noable about conduct in a meeting where there are eight or more councilors. The rules

1386
03:21:32,000 --> 03:21:39,760
are clear about booking HRM spaces. The rules are clear for, for all these, for all of these things.

1387
03:21:40,640 --> 03:21:45,920
So I've worry about about consuming staff resources and wasting time when all the rules are

1388
03:21:45,920 --> 03:21:54,160
noable and present. But more importantly, I worry that a motion like this sends a chilling message,

1389
03:21:54,800 --> 03:22:02,000
and a chilling message is, you know, around the fact that elected officials interaction with residents,

1390
03:22:02,080 --> 03:22:13,040
community groups, individual people, industry, are, are not doing that work is not a distraction

1391
03:22:13,040 --> 03:22:19,040
from our rule. It's not separate from our rules, elected officials. It's absolutely central to it.

1392
03:22:19,040 --> 03:22:24,640
It's, in fact, why we're here. We're here to carry, to listen to the voices, and carry those voices

1393
03:22:24,640 --> 03:22:32,320
into our decision-making and appropriate ways. When I read the motion, it sounds,

1394
03:22:33,360 --> 03:22:39,840
it sounds like this could and very likely will have a chilling effect on whether some of our colleagues

1395
03:22:39,840 --> 03:22:46,240
choose to meet with groups or individuals or not. I think already we have some emails flying about people

1396
03:22:46,240 --> 03:22:53,120
withdrawing from a future meeting that's coming up that's been duly and legally constituted and so forth.

1397
03:22:53,120 --> 03:23:07,760
So I worry about this quite a bit. Perhaps I'll leave it there. I think you understand what

1398
03:23:07,760 --> 03:23:12,960
I'm trying to say here. We need to be working harder, especially now, at the moment that our

1399
03:23:12,960 --> 03:23:19,200
city is in to be listening to voices and to bring in wisdom and knowledge and information and data

1400
03:23:19,200 --> 03:23:24,400
into our decision-making. And if we think for a moment about what one of the greatest challenges

1401
03:23:24,400 --> 03:23:30,240
this body is facing, this council body is facing right now, it's building things fast enough.

1402
03:23:30,240 --> 03:23:40,240
And to be creating barriers to meeting with in this, in the example that provokes this motion,

1403
03:23:41,120 --> 03:23:45,360
creating barriers to meet with the people who actually build things rather than removing barriers

1404
03:23:45,360 --> 03:23:49,760
to talk to people who build things and how they do better and build things faster I think is

1405
03:23:49,760 --> 03:23:55,040
is heading in a wrong direction. So I would encourage folks just to take a look at the internet

1406
03:23:55,040 --> 03:24:01,680
and see the rules there and to vote against a motion that actually works against what we're all here to do.

1407
03:24:01,680 --> 03:24:02,320
Thank you.

1408
03:24:15,360 --> 03:24:40,640
Thank you, and we'll thank you, Mr. Mayor. And so I'm going to support this motion. And

1409
03:24:40,640 --> 03:24:47,360
no, I just push back on the idea that there is clarity and that all anyone needs to do is go look at

1410
03:24:47,360 --> 03:24:54,240
the internet. I mean, if it is that clear, this won't be a big undertaking for staff to do.

1411
03:24:55,840 --> 03:25:01,200
I think the reason this report is needed is because there have been questions raised and I think it's

1412
03:25:01,200 --> 03:25:07,840
having something written down rather than just kind of advice like as I recall, like when I was

1413
03:25:07,840 --> 03:25:15,200
first elected, one of the costumes from legal was, don't meet as a group if you're going to

1414
03:25:15,200 --> 03:25:24,880
potentially be core. You know, that was just the general instruction. Now, maybe that's overly

1415
03:25:24,880 --> 03:25:29,200
risk cautious, risk adverse. I don't know. I mean, we just kind of took the advice from no,

1416
03:25:29,200 --> 03:25:34,960
whenever I've never seen anything written down on this. And the fact that there's all these different

1417
03:25:34,960 --> 03:25:41,200
interpretations on this around the room, to me, proves the case that this is worthwhile to actually

1418
03:25:41,200 --> 03:25:48,880
put down for clarity, right? So that we all know exactly what the rules are. So, you know, I would disagree

1419
03:25:48,880 --> 03:25:53,760
that this is, you know, a waste of time. I think this actually is important. And this is important,

1420
03:25:53,760 --> 03:26:00,080
in terms of, you know, structuring the engagement, the important engagement work that we do. I mean,

1421
03:26:00,080 --> 03:26:08,160
generally, I mean, one of the kind of, maybe, worst kept secrets of municipal government is that

1422
03:26:08,160 --> 03:26:13,680
pretty much will meet with anybody, right? Like, it's not a very arduous process to get a meeting with

1423
03:26:13,680 --> 03:26:18,080
a counselor. But we've always been very cautious about meeting as groups and there have been a couple

1424
03:26:18,080 --> 03:26:23,040
things. And, you know, the public has raised it too on occasion, right? I mean, I can think of two

1425
03:26:23,120 --> 03:26:30,000
media stories. The one about the, uh, I think was the construction of shows association and Uber that

1426
03:26:30,000 --> 03:26:35,840
have been in. And so I think some clarity would just, it would be, it would be to all our benefit to have

1427
03:26:35,840 --> 03:26:42,000
that out there, um, no matter where you kind of are on your own comfort level. I think it would be just

1428
03:26:42,000 --> 03:26:48,320
time we'll spend time to have that clarity for everybody. So, um, I think I will support this motion. I think

1429
03:26:48,320 --> 03:26:55,280
uh, the deputy mayor is right to have brought it forward. Thank you. Uh, thank you, councilor Ken,

1430
03:26:55,280 --> 03:27:01,920
please. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I just want to also add my two cents worth around the whole

1431
03:27:02,960 --> 03:27:10,320
layers of this that are related to special invitations that we might get from organizations from industry

1432
03:27:10,320 --> 03:27:17,760
from lobbyist groups. I think we have to be very careful around what we know to be your belief to be

1433
03:27:17,840 --> 03:27:25,760
lobbyist groups because that I think that matches the very specific kind of position that councilor

1434
03:27:25,760 --> 03:27:35,840
steel put on the table and around, you know, um, the benefit that they have to be able to come to

1435
03:27:35,840 --> 03:27:40,560
different committees and different community councils and things like that to, uh, you know,

1436
03:27:40,560 --> 03:27:46,880
bend our ear. We do have to be concerned around, I don't think we have to be concerned around how this

1437
03:27:47,680 --> 03:27:55,120
looks to industry and to the, um, proponents that might be inviting us into certain scenarios.

1438
03:27:55,120 --> 03:28:00,480
We've had to address that in the past, which is that we couldn't do it and I think that that's a strong

1439
03:28:00,480 --> 03:28:09,680
position, uh, because we don't want to be, um, criticized in, um, having had their undivided

1440
03:28:09,680 --> 03:28:15,760
attention and then that gets scrutinized and morphed into your, you're doing what they want you to do

1441
03:28:15,760 --> 03:28:21,200
and et cetera, et cetera. The difference though, I think for me and, and, and maybe I'm not,

1442
03:28:21,200 --> 03:28:26,560
I'm not reading it as strong as it, as I should be, but the public events, things that are already out there

1443
03:28:26,560 --> 03:28:33,920
to, uh, we're invited to, but others are invited to, whether it's in public, um, or a special gathering.

1444
03:28:33,920 --> 03:28:39,760
As long as there, it's not exclusively Councillors, I don't see any reason why we couldn't be

1445
03:28:39,760 --> 03:28:47,360
able to attend. We, we, we, we know that this, these, um, scenarios are often around public,

1446
03:28:48,080 --> 03:28:56,400
or around education pieces, um, and, but if it's, if it's exclusively for Councillors, I think that's,

1447
03:28:56,400 --> 03:29:01,920
that's, we shouldn't, we shouldn't entertain those, because we do, we do have the opportunity to be

1448
03:29:02,800 --> 03:29:11,200
publicly scrutinized and rightly so, but I don't think that this motion undermines

1449
03:29:12,800 --> 03:29:19,840
or sends a message other than good governance. That's what this is sending a message for, and we as

1450
03:29:19,840 --> 03:29:26,720
Councillors, who've put our names out there and our reputations out there and our work out there,

1451
03:29:26,720 --> 03:29:31,440
and we return to the ballot and some of us will return and some of us won't, but when we are putting

1452
03:29:31,520 --> 03:29:38,560
ourselves out there to do this role, we deserve to know we have checks and balances in place

1453
03:29:38,560 --> 03:29:44,720
that protect the work we do. Our, our citizens, citizens deserve to know that those checks and

1454
03:29:44,720 --> 03:29:51,040
balances are there for not only us, but everyone on council including the mayor. So I think that this

1455
03:29:51,040 --> 03:29:59,680
is can only be interpreted in the public, except for those who may be have already in a agenda that,

1456
03:29:59,680 --> 03:30:01,680
that's,

1457
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:07,000
If you're trying to serve, I think, in general, it's good. I'm going to just leave it there. I appreciate the time. Thanks.

1458
03:30:07,000 --> 03:30:11,000
Thank you very much. Moving to Councilor Mancini, please.

1459
03:30:11,000 --> 03:30:19,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, you know, some of the items this motion, I question whether it's, isn't it already out there as the mayor stated?

1460
03:30:19,000 --> 03:30:35,000
I mean, Mr. Traves, can you respond to in particular items A, B, and E, isn't that information readily there? Can you even respond to it at this moment?

1461
03:30:35,000 --> 03:30:45,000
Yes. You know, there's a lot of public information around and there are broad principles, but there's, there are gray areas.

1462
03:30:45,000 --> 03:30:58,000
So, it's not unreasonable for Council to ask for us to provide some clarity. However, each incident of some form of a meeting, you know,

1463
03:30:58,000 --> 03:31:02,000
generally speaking, is going to depend on the facts of it as to what goes on.

1464
03:31:02,000 --> 03:31:09,000
But, you know, as to what happens at the meeting, just because there's a quorum council doesn't make it a council meeting.

1465
03:31:09,000 --> 03:31:14,000
All right, so, but it is, it is, it is more nuanced than that. So, yes, I think.

1466
03:31:14,000 --> 03:31:26,000
So, in your opinion, sorry, could I go ahead? In your opinion, if it is motion goes forward, would that help clarify those gray areas?

1467
03:31:26,000 --> 03:31:33,000
Probably not, because each one will be dependent on the facts of the situation, right? It'll depend on what's going on.

1468
03:31:33,000 --> 03:31:39,000
But the cardinal rule is of municipal laws that corporate affairs must be transacted at the council meeting.

1469
03:31:39,000 --> 03:31:44,000
Do we really cost convened at the proper time in place upon doing adequate notice?

1470
03:31:44,000 --> 03:31:49,000
And so, what constitutes that council meeting will depend on the factors underlying it.

1471
03:31:49,000 --> 03:31:53,000
But there is a number of court decisions going back to the 90s.

1472
03:31:54,000 --> 03:32:07,000
Council was provided an opinion from from legal in 2011, which addressed this, but there's, there's more, and we can take this away and update what we've provided.

1473
03:32:07,000 --> 03:32:12,000
Thank you for that. I'm wondering, you know, I look at the deputy mayor in your closing if you're going to close.

1474
03:32:12,000 --> 03:32:17,000
You know, you can give us a hypothetical situation, which you're trying to avoid to help me understand this, right?

1475
03:32:17,000 --> 03:32:29,000
You know, I think it's the gray area, I think the solicitor explained that well, we need to, we need to address those gray areas, but, you know, I'm concerned that will address those gray areas.

1476
03:32:29,000 --> 03:32:35,000
So, I'm wondering if you just had a big picture, could you just share with us. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1477
03:32:35,000 --> 03:32:40,000
Thank you very much, and we'll move to Councillor Gillis, please.

1478
03:32:41,000 --> 03:32:45,000
Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I just want to kind of clarify my stance on this.

1479
03:32:45,000 --> 03:33:00,000
Maybe question or two, too. So, would this motion then constitute, say, us from meeting as a group going on a hike or going on like, you know, a bike ride?

1480
03:33:00,000 --> 03:33:06,000
Are we getting into the weeds now, but I can answer that.

1481
03:33:06,000 --> 03:33:13,000
So, there is a legal test set by case called Southern out of Ontario from 1991, and it's very simple.

1482
03:33:13,000 --> 03:33:35,000
The key would appear to be whether, and this is, I'm quoting from the decision, but key would appear to be whether the counselors are requested to or, in fact, attend without summons of function, at which matters, which would ordinarily form the basis of council's business or dealt with in such a way as to move them materially along the way in the overall spectrum of a council decision.

1483
03:33:35,000 --> 03:33:44,000
So, you receive advice or you receive a presentation from somebody and it forms the basis towards which you will be making decisions.

1484
03:33:44,000 --> 03:33:49,000
I would argue that is moving information forward in a way leading to a council decision.

1485
03:33:49,000 --> 03:33:52,000
It's properly a matter of a council decision.

1486
03:33:52,000 --> 03:33:59,000
So, any situation or any group of facts is going to be assessed against that standard.

1487
03:33:59,000 --> 03:34:01,000
What does it mean exactly?

1488
03:34:02,000 --> 03:34:15,000
It's down to, is this a matter which would be better off as a presentation in front of the public who has a right to participate and see the business of government transacted at a municipal level.

1489
03:34:15,000 --> 03:34:20,000
That's going to be a question that this group will have to decide in any given case.

1490
03:34:20,000 --> 03:34:26,000
So, I can certainly articulate that and put it out each of these instances.

1491
03:34:26,000 --> 03:34:33,000
In many cases, it comes down to, well, what is the desire of the group and does it pass the smell test with the public?

1492
03:34:33,000 --> 03:34:38,000
In terms of this is something that they feel that they should have been participating in.

1493
03:34:38,000 --> 03:34:44,000
And, you know, 12 years ago there was a large number of council meetings which were conducted in private.

1494
03:34:45,000 --> 03:34:50,000
And it became an issue and council has been very cautious about going in camera.

1495
03:34:50,000 --> 03:34:53,000
Let alone, you know, because it's private meetings, right?

1496
03:34:53,000 --> 03:35:00,000
In camera meeting, whether it's in this chamber or where it's somewhere else is still going to be potentially questioned.

1497
03:35:00,000 --> 03:35:09,000
So, legally, you don't think this is like it's still going to be gray area, even if we move forward with this.

1498
03:35:09,000 --> 03:35:25,000
Potentially, but as I said, there's there's nothing wrong with getting a better sense of exactly well where are the where are the parameters what should I consider when I'm making a decision whether to, you know, set up a meeting or whether I should be suggesting that.

1499
03:35:25,000 --> 03:35:29,000
The group that wishes to meet with us comes and gives a presentation.

1500
03:35:29,000 --> 03:35:38,000
We have a process for presentation at council, right? And so those those are in some ways up to the individual council as well.

1501
03:35:38,000 --> 03:35:39,000
Thank you.

1502
03:35:39,000 --> 03:35:40,000
Thank you.

1503
03:35:40,000 --> 03:35:42,000
Councillor Steele, please.

1504
03:35:42,000 --> 03:35:44,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1505
03:35:44,000 --> 03:35:53,000
I just wanted to weigh in to be very clear with my comments in that I wasn't suggesting that as councilors,

1506
03:35:53,000 --> 03:36:01,000
we couldn't meet one-on-one with associations or business persons or any of any of the groups out there.

1507
03:36:02,000 --> 03:36:07,000
I certainly have and will continue to do that as a counselor.

1508
03:36:07,000 --> 03:36:22,000
My concern with, you know, upcoming meetings and other meetings is when we do it collectively as council that it may not be in alignment with our rules around holding in camera meetings.

1509
03:36:22,000 --> 03:36:30,000
And I also wish to genuinely make the point that we have a number of committees and standing committees.

1510
03:36:30,000 --> 03:36:34,000
And many groups come and speak to us and we change our mind.

1511
03:36:34,000 --> 03:36:48,000
I mean, we can think about, you know, the library discussion where we had groups come in and we moved away from the staff recommendation to take another look to follow more process in this case.

1512
03:36:48,000 --> 03:36:56,000
So I just like to encourage those groups that wish to meet with us collectively to come and speak at our standing committees.

1513
03:36:56,000 --> 03:37:00,000
Our committees are not meeting your needs or you don't feel they're meeting your needs.

1514
03:37:00,000 --> 03:37:10,000
Make a suggestion for an alternative approach because I'm sure the groups that wish to come and speak with us have great ideas for the future of the city.

1515
03:37:10,000 --> 03:37:13,000
Why not share them in a public forum.

1516
03:37:13,000 --> 03:37:15,000
That's the point I'd like to make.

1517
03:37:15,000 --> 03:37:21,000
Yes, you can share them privately with each of us, but share them in a public forum.

1518
03:37:21,000 --> 03:37:25,000
So everyone can get involved with the story of building our city.

1519
03:37:25,000 --> 03:37:31,000
So I just want to clarify some people are saying, you know, we're saying no.

1520
03:37:31,000 --> 03:37:33,000
And I don't think we're sending the signal.

1521
03:37:33,000 --> 03:37:41,000
The signal we want to send is we want to hear the story and we want the public to hear the story so we can all embrace it.

1522
03:37:41,000 --> 03:37:42,000
Thanks.

1523
03:37:42,000 --> 03:37:43,000
Thank you.

1524
03:37:43,000 --> 03:37:46,000
Moving to Councilor David again, please.

1525
03:37:50,000 --> 03:37:52,000
Thank you Mr. Mayor.

1526
03:37:52,000 --> 03:37:57,000
Thank you, Councillor Steele. I think that, you know, I build on what you had said.

1527
03:37:57,000 --> 03:38:02,000
I support this motion for the very reason that I think it protects everybody.

1528
03:38:02,000 --> 03:38:10,000
Any organizations that want to speak to us because it's all about us operating in as much transparency as possible.

1529
03:38:10,000 --> 03:38:19,000
And so for that I think the message that really go should be received by the community and hopefully I guess, you know, it's how we tell it.

1530
03:38:19,000 --> 03:38:27,000
But I think that the real essence of this is that we make sure that as a governing body that we do it full transparency.

1531
03:38:27,000 --> 03:38:34,000
And that there are mechanisms by which organizations can come and speak as standing committees.

1532
03:38:34,000 --> 03:38:37,000
And so the options are there.

1533
03:38:37,000 --> 03:38:41,000
And this just clarifies when those options are best directed.

1534
03:38:41,000 --> 03:38:43,000
Thank you.

1535
03:38:43,000 --> 03:38:45,000
Thank you. Councilor Steele.

1536
03:38:45,000 --> 03:38:48,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1537
03:38:48,000 --> 03:38:52,000
The daylight may not be the perfect disinfectant, but it's a pretty reasonable one.

1538
03:38:52,000 --> 03:38:58,000
And I think that's really all that the deputy mayor's motion here is seeking.

1539
03:38:58,000 --> 03:39:10,000
It's looking for a deeper dive to provide some clarity from staff's perspective on where we might shore up some of the rules and regulations around how we meet with groups.

1540
03:39:10,000 --> 03:39:20,000
And, you know, it does as Councilor Steele pointed out, it does afford us an opportunity to remind all of the different community groups that have a vested interest in the direction that Council is taking.

1541
03:39:20,000 --> 03:39:27,000
That there are avenues available to them as well that are entirely public and entirely above board.

1542
03:39:27,000 --> 03:39:39,000
And so it gives us an opportunity to demonstrate to the public that we are making every effort to ensure that they have visibility into all of the things that go into the decisions that we make.

1543
03:39:39,000 --> 03:39:50,000
Yes, we will continue to meet with interest groups one on one so that they can make their case and we have an opportunity to ask pointed questions of them about what it is that they're seeking from Council.

1544
03:39:50,000 --> 03:40:06,000
But the, you know, I think it's appropriate to have some boundaries set and whether they are laid out sufficiently in the legislation that we have already or whether there's some additional clarity to be gleamed from a deeper dive from our legal team and from our staff.

1545
03:40:06,000 --> 03:40:23,000
I think it's appropriate to take a look and if my hope is that we will wind up getting a little bit of additional clarity even though the likelihood is a lot of hypotheticals are going to remain that we will wind up having to bound ourselves by just a reasonable test or the smell test that John referred to.

1546
03:40:23,000 --> 03:40:31,000
I think we can do that we we still have the ability to do that regardless but I think if we can get a little bit more direction.

1547
03:40:31,000 --> 03:40:38,000
It can go a long way to ensuring that the public feels like they understand what the rules are as they are applied to us as well.

1548
03:40:38,000 --> 03:40:40,000
So I'm happy to support.

1549
03:40:40,000 --> 03:40:44,000
Thank you very much and just before I pass it to the deputy mayor.

1550
03:40:44,000 --> 03:40:59,000
The mayor colleagues may be interested to to be reminded that we have given some direction for work on a registry of lobbyists and on your behalf I've written a letter to the provincial government where we'll see where that goes so just don't want you to forget about that.

1551
03:40:59,000 --> 03:41:04,000
Okay with that we'll go to the deputy mayor please.

1552
03:41:04,000 --> 03:41:11,000
Thank you Mr. Mayor so just to close this is at the best about getting things to be a little less gray.

1553
03:41:11,000 --> 03:41:20,000
As deputy mayor I can tell you that several of us have different understandings about what it is to meet in quorum.

1554
03:41:20,000 --> 03:41:31,000
You know you want to hide the sadical case it's when you know there's a real case in which there is an industry group that is requested a meeting of council all of council got invited to that.

1555
03:41:31,000 --> 03:41:47,000
City Hall down in Halifax Hall so not in our public chambers and it's not that my motion is scaring counselors away counselors are being scared away because they're unsure of the rules they're unsure of how this fits with code of conduct.

1556
03:41:47,000 --> 03:42:00,000
So in response I've brought for this motion so that perhaps we can have more of a collective understanding about what the rules are what constitutes a meeting of council.

1557
03:42:00,000 --> 03:42:05,000
And again it's a meeting it's not about going for a bike ride or doing group karaoke.

1558
03:42:05,000 --> 03:42:19,000
It's specifically about having a meeting of council that relates to council business and and that is that is you know what this motion's about and why it's important.

1559
03:42:19,000 --> 03:42:29,000
It's because of the public things we're having meetings of council in private with some stakeholder groups but not others.

1560
03:42:29,000 --> 03:42:40,000
It's going to continue to breathe mistrust we have a responsibility to ensure there's public trust in our processes and how we operate and how we make decisions.

1561
03:42:40,000 --> 03:42:57,000
It's not about limiting conversations this is about a meeting of a quorum of council it's not about you and a neighboring district council are going to meet with a community group about a local you know garbage issue on your on your sports field.

1562
03:42:57,000 --> 03:43:05,000
It's really about having a quorum of council the discussion the decisions that get made in that environment.

1563
03:43:06,000 --> 03:43:11,000
You know, it's.

1564
03:43:11,000 --> 03:43:20,000
I'm looking for my last points here I hope I hope that that's a good enough example for you in in in in in in real life.

1565
03:43:20,000 --> 03:43:33,000
And and if we can get a better collective understanding here then then I think it will be less questions and whoever becomes deputy mayor next after me won't have as many quite people coming and walking on their door going.

1566
03:43:33,000 --> 03:43:39,000
I go to this meeting shouldn't I go to this meeting is this constitute quorum what are the rules how does this affect code of conduct.

1567
03:43:39,000 --> 03:43:49,000
Code of conduct wasn't in place when you know largely when we talk when we spoke about this before so there is a new element here and yep this is really just.

1568
03:43:49,000 --> 03:43:58,000
Getting getting the report and being transparent for ourselves for the public for the stakeholders not about not having conversations.

1569
03:43:58,000 --> 03:44:00,000
Thank you.

1570
03:44:01,000 --> 03:44:02,000
Question is called.

1571
03:44:02,000 --> 03:44:31,000
The motion carries this brings us to item 17.1 and I wonder if yes councilor.

1572
03:44:31,000 --> 03:44:35,000
That's what it's going to be.

1573
03:44:35,000 --> 03:44:49,000
I will just very I'll try my best and testing council and several starting with 17.1 the in camera private minutes at the camera in private minutes of May 26 26 be approved circulated so moved.

1574
03:44:49,000 --> 03:44:52,000
Second of my councilor white.

1575
03:44:52,000 --> 03:45:00,000
And the show of hands so colleagues on the.

1576
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:08,000
Recordings item 171, and that is approved. And then we'll go on to Councilor Mancini 172.

1577
03:45:08,000 --> 03:45:18,000
Mr. Mayor, let's see how far I can get.

1578
03:45:18,000 --> 03:45:19,000
Oh, sorry, my apologies.

1579
03:45:19,000 --> 03:45:27,000
That the Halifax Regional Council won adopt the recommendation as outlined in the private and confidential report date at May 29, 2026.

1580
03:45:27,000 --> 03:45:31,000
And two direct to private and confidential report date at May 29, 2026.

1581
03:45:31,000 --> 03:45:35,000
Be maintained private and confidential, so moved.

1582
03:45:35,000 --> 03:45:48,000
Seconded by Councillor Steele, and we go to a digital vote now, colleagues.

1583
03:45:48,000 --> 03:45:51,000
Okay, we'll go to you for 174.

1584
03:45:51,000 --> 03:45:54,000
So we're voting on 172 now.

1585
03:46:05,000 --> 03:46:22,000
How are we?

1586
03:46:35,000 --> 03:46:45,000
The motion carries.

1587
03:46:45,000 --> 03:46:46,000
Thank you.

1588
03:46:46,000 --> 03:46:51,000
Then we will go back to Councillor Mancini.

1589
03:46:51,000 --> 03:46:56,000
Mr. Mayor, put 173 on the floor.

1590
03:46:56,000 --> 03:46:59,000
So one adopt recommendation is outlined.

1591
03:46:59,000 --> 03:47:03,000
The private and confidential report date at May 29, 2026.

1592
03:47:03,000 --> 03:47:11,000
Be maintained private and confidential, so moved.

1593
03:47:11,000 --> 03:47:17,000
Seconded by Councillor Steele, and so we call the question.

1594
03:47:33,000 --> 03:47:39,000
And the motion carries.

1595
03:47:39,000 --> 03:47:44,000
We're moving on now to 174 and the deputy mayor, please.

1596
03:47:44,000 --> 03:47:45,000
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1597
03:47:45,000 --> 03:47:54,000
I move that Halifax Regional Council won adopt the recommendations as outlined in the private and confidential report.

1598
03:47:54,000 --> 03:48:02,000
They did May 29, 2026, and to direct that the private and confidential report date at May 29, 2026.

1599
03:48:02,000 --> 03:48:06,000
Be maintained private and confidential.

1600
03:48:06,000 --> 03:48:17,000
Seconded by Councillor Cleary, and we'll go to the vote.

1601
03:48:17,000 --> 03:48:27,000
Do.

1602
03:48:47,000 --> 03:48:57,000
And the motion carries.

1603
03:48:57,000 --> 03:49:02,000
And I have heard a request that we go in camera for item 15.

1604
03:49:02,000 --> 03:49:06,000
And so I beg your pardon, item 175.

1605
03:49:06,000 --> 03:49:09,000
And so could I have a motion to go in camera, please.

1606
03:49:09,000 --> 03:49:13,000
Move by Councillor Mancini, seconded by Councillor Gillis.

1607
03:49:14,000 --> 03:49:21,000
Councillor Hansby, 176, are you willing to test that?

1608
03:49:21,000 --> 03:49:25,000
I have a full council present for that discussion in private and cameras.

1609
03:49:25,000 --> 03:49:28,000
Okay, I'll ask that item to be deferred next week.

1610
03:49:28,000 --> 03:49:31,000
Oh, very good. Okay, so we'll defer.

1611
03:49:31,000 --> 03:49:38,000
Well, I will say, Councillor Hansby, the next agenda is very, very full.

1612
03:49:38,000 --> 03:49:53,000
If we were to slip up meeting, that would that, is there a time constraint?

1613
03:49:53,000 --> 03:50:01,000
But we'll try and do our best.

1614
03:50:01,000 --> 03:50:05,000
And I'll turn to Councillor Hansby as we could go in camera now.

1615
03:50:05,000 --> 03:50:09,000
I'm not sure that we're there yet, so we'll just be careful there.

1616
03:50:09,000 --> 03:50:14,000
And ask if Councillor Hinch would allow you to go first, and that way you'd be here.

1617
03:50:14,000 --> 03:50:30,000
I think I think the in camera wheels are rolling already.

1618
03:50:30,000 --> 03:50:36,000
So we're going to, we're already down a path there, Councillor Hansby.

1619
03:50:36,000 --> 03:50:47,000
And I'll just wait for the clerk to let me know when we are.

1620
03:50:47,000 --> 03:50:51,000
That, that was, that was declined.

1621
03:50:51,000 --> 03:50:53,000
Yeah, okay.

1622
03:50:53,000 --> 03:51:03,000
Thank you.

1623
03:51:23,000 --> 03:51:33,000
Thank you.

1624
03:51:53,000 --> 03:52:03,000
Thank you.

1625
03:52:23,000 --> 03:52:33,000
Thank you.

1626
03:52:53,000 --> 03:53:03,000
Thank you.

1627
03:53:23,000 --> 03:53:33,000
Thank you.

1628
03:53:53,000 --> 03:54:03,000
Thank you.

1629
03:54:23,000 --> 03:54:33,000
Thank you.

1630
03:54:53,000 --> 03:55:03,000
Thank you.

1631
03:55:23,000 --> 03:55:33,000
Thank you.

1632
03:55:53,000 --> 03:56:03,000
Thank you.

1633
03:56:23,000 --> 03:56:33,000
Thank you.

1634
03:56:53,000 --> 03:57:03,000
Thank you.

1635
03:57:23,000 --> 03:57:33,000
Thank you.

1636
03:57:53,000 --> 03:58:03,000
Thank you.

1637
03:58:23,000 --> 03:58:33,000
Thank you.

1638
03:58:53,000 --> 03:59:03,000
Thank you.

1639
03:59:23,000 --> 03:59:33,000
Thank you.

1640
03:59:53,000 --> 04:00:03,000
Thank you.

1641
04:09:00,000 --> 04:09:14,840
Colleagues were back in open session, and we are at item of colleagues I will say that I think

1642
04:09:14,840 --> 04:09:20,740
we are in a good position to get through the rest of the agenda, including the ratifications before

1643
04:09:20,740 --> 04:09:25,360
the evening recess, so that we only have to deal with the appeal hearing when we come back.

1644
04:09:25,360 --> 04:09:30,200
So let's move with some of the faculty, if we can, and with that we are at 181, would anyone

1645
04:09:30,200 --> 04:09:34,360
like to put the motion on the floor, please? Councillor White.

1646
04:09:34,360 --> 04:09:36,360
Please, I love flying around.

1647
04:09:36,360 --> 04:09:40,520
Okay, I move that Halifax Regional Council Grant Permission for Flypass is

1648
04:09:40,520 --> 04:09:46,320
lowest 500 feet for the Canadian Armed Forces to conduct a C.P. 140 and C.A. 2048

1649
04:09:46,320 --> 04:09:54,360
flypass, along the Halifax side of the CLGP race stadium on June 20, 2026, between 330 and 4 p.m.

1650
04:09:55,360 --> 04:10:00,360
A contracted commercial charter, a company to conduct flypass for broadcast coverage operations

1651
04:10:00,360 --> 04:10:09,360
as part of the CLGP event on June 19, 2021, 2026 at various times as outlined in the request stated June 12, 2026.

1652
04:10:09,360 --> 04:10:11,360
Second, I'm going to go to the council of Mancini.

1653
04:10:11,360 --> 04:10:13,360
Can we go over the floor?

1654
04:10:13,360 --> 04:10:14,360
Yes.

1655
04:10:14,360 --> 04:10:16,360
Thank you.

1656
04:10:16,360 --> 04:10:18,360
Thank you's calling for the question.

1657
04:10:18,360 --> 04:10:19,360
Yeah, let's vote.

1658
04:10:19,360 --> 04:10:21,360
Let's, let's stay focused friends.

1659
04:10:22,360 --> 04:10:23,360
I'm sorry.

1660
04:10:23,360 --> 04:10:25,360
I'm sorry.

1661
04:10:25,360 --> 04:10:41,360
Councillor Gillis, and Deputy Mayor.

1662
04:10:41,360 --> 04:10:47,360
How much is it?

1663
04:10:47,360 --> 04:10:51,360
The motion carries.

1664
04:10:51,360 --> 04:10:55,360
And that brings us to item 18.2.

1665
04:10:55,360 --> 04:10:59,360
Councillor Hensby, letter of support for FCM to stay in book communities ward.

1666
04:10:59,360 --> 04:11:00,360
Councillor Hensby, the floor is yours.

1667
04:11:00,360 --> 04:11:01,360
Thank you so much Mr. Mayor.

1668
04:11:01,360 --> 04:11:02,360
Put the motion of floor.

1669
04:11:02,360 --> 04:11:08,360
The Halifax Regional Council won in a wave section 17 administrative or one respect and procedures of council.

1670
04:11:08,360 --> 04:11:14,360
Requiring our staff report from the chief administrative officer and two direct chief administrative officer.

1671
04:11:14,360 --> 04:11:20,360
CAO to prepare a letter of support from a adjourned council to endorse the application by the old school.

1672
04:11:20,360 --> 04:11:26,360
So, we're meeting the committee right now for the staff officials and to representatives and illegal persons and 76 families of plays for their solar power community well project in Musculovah,

1673
04:11:26,360 --> 04:11:29,360
Harvard to be nominated for the FCM sustainable communities of ward under the category of climate abditation.

1674
04:11:29,360 --> 04:11:32,360
Seconded by the good neighbor Councillor Day again.

1675
04:11:32,360 --> 04:11:34,360
Thank you so much Mr. Mayor.

1676
04:11:34,360 --> 04:11:36,360
Just to bring the council up to date, this project came about as via some eager and enthusiastic community volunteers.

1677
04:11:36,360 --> 04:11:48,360
We came up across multiple studies of the Oca 1st, back in 1960s, which studied in the Musculovah,

1678
04:11:48,360 --> 04:11:51,440
And it was felt that we tried to tap into that aquifer.

1679
04:11:51,440 --> 04:11:53,680
We had done some negotiations in the past.

1680
04:11:53,680 --> 04:11:56,040
We were providing some land by the ball field.

1681
04:11:56,040 --> 04:11:59,200
To the old school of the algorithm plays, we provided them the land.

1682
04:11:59,200 --> 04:12:04,080
We drilled the site, put the well in, put the solar panels on, and we also worked like a

1683
04:12:04,080 --> 04:12:06,280
charm once we got rough running.

1684
04:12:06,280 --> 04:12:11,640
And we found it was such a popular demand for it that we needed to boost the pump capacity.

1685
04:12:11,640 --> 04:12:13,000
We're putting on more solar panels.

1686
04:12:13,000 --> 04:12:17,200
We're also insulating the buildings so we have a longer season if required to the spring

1687
04:12:17,200 --> 04:12:21,600
and into the fall, because we had closed it off in the winter time, potential

1688
04:12:21,600 --> 04:12:27,320
mineralization and freezing, so we're hoping to extend the season because with the climate

1689
04:12:27,320 --> 04:12:32,960
changes we had, the drought we had last year, this well is going to be well used again

1690
04:12:32,960 --> 04:12:38,440
and I'm looking forward for that nomination to go forward and hopefully they'll win it.

1691
04:12:38,440 --> 04:12:44,280
We'll put musk and orb in the map and hopefully it'll be a precursor to a central water supply

1692
04:12:44,280 --> 04:12:46,680
for the development of musk and orb in harbor.

1693
04:12:46,920 --> 04:12:47,680
Thank you.

1694
04:12:47,680 --> 04:12:48,680
Fabius.

1695
04:12:48,680 --> 04:12:50,680
Well, very well presented, sir.

1696
04:12:50,680 --> 04:13:07,320
As the question, questions called.

1697
04:13:07,320 --> 04:13:12,720
And the motion carries and now we will move to the ratification of the in-camera items

1698
04:13:12,720 --> 04:13:17,160
and for 17 one I'll turn to Tony Man, Councillor Minceini please.

1699
04:13:17,160 --> 04:13:18,160
No.

1700
04:13:18,160 --> 04:13:19,160
Sorry.

1701
04:13:19,160 --> 04:13:20,160
17 five.

1702
04:13:20,160 --> 04:13:22,160
17 five.

1703
04:13:22,160 --> 04:13:24,160
Why?

1704
04:13:24,160 --> 04:13:25,160
That's the answer.

1705
04:13:25,160 --> 04:13:29,640
That's Councillor Hitchell.

1706
04:13:29,640 --> 04:13:33,280
We will turn to Councillor Hitchell for 17 five please.

1707
04:13:33,280 --> 04:13:34,280
Okay.

1708
04:13:34,280 --> 04:13:39,400
I moved the Health Act Regional Council to one adopt the recommendation as outlined in the

1709
04:13:39,400 --> 04:13:46,840
private and confidential report dated June 8th, 2026 and to direct that the private and confidential

1710
04:13:46,840 --> 04:13:53,960
report dated June 8th, 2026 be maintained private and confidential so move.

1711
04:13:53,960 --> 04:13:56,960
Seconded by Councillor Steele.

1712
04:13:56,960 --> 04:14:12,640
And we will go to the question, please.

1713
04:14:12,640 --> 04:14:16,200
And the motion carries, very good.

1714
04:14:16,200 --> 04:14:22,800
That brings us to item 19 notices of motion, are there any today?

1715
04:14:22,800 --> 04:14:24,600
Not seeing any?

1716
04:14:24,680 --> 04:14:28,360
All right, on the nose, oh, may you pardon me?

1717
04:14:28,360 --> 04:14:34,360
Oh, there are two, premature celebration.

1718
04:14:34,360 --> 04:14:38,880
And I will note for the record that 17.6 has been deferred at the request of Councillor

1719
04:14:38,880 --> 04:14:48,720
Hansby.

1720
04:14:48,720 --> 04:14:54,840
And when you're ready, Deputy Mayor, the floor is yours.

1721
04:14:54,840 --> 04:14:56,440
Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

1722
04:14:56,440 --> 04:14:59,960
Take note of that at a future meeting of Halifax Regional Council.

1723
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:09,360
We intend to introduce the repeal and replacement of Administrative Order 2014-012 ADM by adopting Administrative Order

1724
04:15:09,360 --> 04:15:18,000
2026-003 ADM. Respecting grants for rule transit, the purpose of which is to include a capital

1725
04:15:18,000 --> 04:15:23,000
grants category for the rule transit funding program.

1726
04:15:23,000 --> 04:15:27,000
So noted, thank you very much. Councillor Clarrier, please.

1727
04:15:27,000 --> 04:15:31,400
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Take notice that a future meeting of Halifax Regional Council

1728
04:15:31,400 --> 04:15:37,800
and intend to introduce Administrative Order 2026-005-ADM. Respecting costs for various

1729
04:15:37,800 --> 04:15:41,640
area rates and inform charges, the purpose of which is to establish an increase to the rate

1730
04:15:41,640 --> 04:15:49,480
for community private area rates. To enable cost recovery from municipal services related to their

1731
04:15:49,480 --> 04:15:53,480
implementation and ongoing administration.

1732
04:15:53,480 --> 04:16:01,720
So noted, thank you very much. That concludes item 19. And so now we will have our evening recess,

1733
04:16:01,720 --> 04:16:17,480
and we'll resume at 6 p.m. for the appeal here. Thank you very much. Enjoy your meal.

1734
04:16:19,480 --> 04:16:29,480
Thank you.

1735
04:16:49,480 --> 04:16:59,480
Thank you.

1736
04:17:19,480 --> 04:17:29,480
Thank you.

1737
04:17:49,480 --> 04:17:59,480
Thank you.

1738
04:18:19,480 --> 04:18:29,480
Thank you.

1739
04:18:49,480 --> 04:18:59,480
Thank you.

1740
04:19:19,480 --> 04:19:29,480
Thank you.

1741
04:19:49,480 --> 04:19:59,480
Thank you.

1742
04:20:19,480 --> 04:20:29,480
Thank you.

1743
04:20:49,480 --> 04:20:59,480
Thank you.

1744
04:21:19,480 --> 04:21:29,480
Thank you.

1745
04:21:49,480 --> 04:21:59,480
Thank you.

1746
04:22:19,480 --> 04:22:29,480
Thank you.

1747
04:22:49,480 --> 04:22:59,480
Thank you.

1748
04:23:19,480 --> 04:23:29,480
Thank you.

1749
04:23:49,480 --> 04:23:59,480
Thank you.

1750
04:24:19,480 --> 04:24:29,480
Thank you.

1751
04:24:49,480 --> 04:24:59,480
Thank you.

1752
04:25:19,480 --> 04:25:29,480
Thank you.

1753
04:25:49,480 --> 04:25:59,480
Thank you.

1754
04:26:19,480 --> 04:26:29,480
Thank you.

1755
04:26:49,480 --> 04:26:59,480
Thank you.

1756
04:27:19,480 --> 04:27:29,480
Thank you.

1757
04:27:49,480 --> 04:27:59,480
Thank you.

1758
04:28:19,480 --> 04:28:29,480
Thank you.

1759
04:28:49,480 --> 04:28:59,480
Thank you.

1760
04:29:19,480 --> 04:29:29,480
Thank you.

1761
04:29:49,480 --> 04:29:59,480
Thank you.

1762
04:55:30,000 --> 04:55:34,000
Local government meeting.

1763
04:55:34,000 --> 04:55:39,000
Local government meeting.

1764
04:56:00,000 --> 04:56:04,000
Local government meeting.

1765
04:56:30,000 --> 04:56:34,000
Local government meeting.

1766
04:57:00,000 --> 04:57:04,000
Local government meeting.

1767
04:57:30,000 --> 04:57:34,000
Local government meeting.

1768
04:58:00,000 --> 04:58:04,000
Local government meeting.

1769
04:58:30,000 --> 04:58:34,000
Local government meeting.

1770
04:59:00,000 --> 04:59:04,000
Local government meeting.

1771
04:59:30,000 --> 04:59:34,000
Local government meeting.

1772
05:17:00,000 --> 05:17:19,000
Good evening, everyone. I like to call this public hearing to order.

1773
05:17:19,000 --> 05:17:43,000
Sorry, part of me, appeal of a site plan approval, for Highway 7, Porter's Lake, PID 407 402776.

1774
05:17:43,000 --> 05:17:56,000
We will now do item 12.1, case 23563, appeal of site plan approval for Highway 7, Porter's Lake, PID 407 40276.

1775
05:17:56,000 --> 05:18:04,000
The process will be that we will start with a staff presentation and questions of clarification from members of council.

1776
05:18:04,000 --> 05:18:10,000
After that, we will go to the appellants, appellants can speak for a maximum of five minutes each.

1777
05:18:10,000 --> 05:18:24,000
After the appellants have given an opportunity to speak, I will then invite anyone who has identified that they are affected by the decision differently than the general public to come forward.

1778
05:18:24,000 --> 05:18:35,000
After the appellants and others have had an opportunity to be heard, the applicant respondent will then be given an opportunity to speak.

1779
05:18:35,000 --> 05:18:43,000
Speakers can participate in person or those who have pre-registered have the option to participate using Zoom.

1780
05:18:43,000 --> 05:18:50,000
Clerk, can you confirm if any correspondence has been received for this appeal hearing?

1781
05:18:50,000 --> 05:18:58,000
Thank you, Deputy Mayor. I can confirm for members of regional council, let no correspondence has been received.

1782
05:18:58,000 --> 05:19:00,000
All right, thank you.

1783
05:19:00,000 --> 05:19:15,000
So with that, I'm sorry. I should have introduced myself to the gallery. Before we start my name is Patty Cuddle, I'm the Deputy Mayor and I will be sharing the preceding this evening.

1784
05:19:15,000 --> 05:19:25,000
So with that, we're going to start with the staff presentation. Go ahead and the floor is yours.

1785
05:19:25,000 --> 05:19:32,000
Good evening, Deputy Mayor, members of regional council. My name is Chris Runaehan, Principal Planner Development Officer with Development Services, Land Development and Subdivision.

1786
05:19:32,000 --> 05:19:41,000
I'm here to present the appeal of the revised site plan approval for PID 407 402776 Highway 7 and Porter's Lake.

1787
05:19:41,000 --> 05:19:52,000
The proposed development is for a construction and demolition processing facility and transfer station along Highway 7 and was reviewed under the site plan approval criteria and the planning district's 8990s by law.

1788
05:19:52,000 --> 05:19:57,000
Here's a context map showing the location of subject property outlined in red on the left.

1789
05:19:57,000 --> 05:20:16,000
The property has three zones, rural enterprise, residential, residential, A zone and the proposed development location, which is the CD2 material processing facilities, which is in the center of the site boundary context map to the right, outlined in yellow.

1790
05:20:16,000 --> 05:20:25,000
The original appeal of the site plan approval was heard at Harbury's Marine Drive Community Council on October 30, 2023. Community Council allowed the appeal resulting in the refusal of the site plan approval.

1791
05:20:25,000 --> 05:20:43,000
The result was appealed at the Supreme Court of Nova Scotia, under just review process. On October 17, 2024, Justice Jameson of the Supreme Court of Nova Scotia determined that the community council's proceeding gave rise to a reasonable apprehension of bias, the court ordered that the site plan approval be heard by regional council.

1792
05:20:43,000 --> 05:20:53,000
The appeal was heard last year on June 24, 2025, and the appeal was allowed by regional council due to concerns surrounding section 22A5 regarding existing and proposed buffering.

1793
05:20:53,000 --> 05:21:02,000
The revised submission was received September 29, 2025, and approved by the development officer November 21, 2025.

1794
05:21:02,000 --> 05:21:16,000
For background and context in 2022, and if 2002, the minutes of pool planning strategy and land use by law for planning districts eight nine were amended to provide greater details on where and how construction and demolition facilities can operate.

1795
05:21:16,000 --> 05:21:25,000
Policy P46G, a municipal planning strategy, says the CD2 zone, so establish an LUB and she'll permit seeing the operations as well as CD1 uses.

1796
05:21:25,000 --> 05:21:34,000
So, establish controls on setbacks from adjacent uses, provide buffering and screening landscape measures, and regularly access, named or storage to minimize impact on adjacent uses.

1797
05:21:34,000 --> 05:21:39,000
The criteria are included within the zone in form part of the site plan approval process.

1798
05:21:39,000 --> 05:21:45,000
I'm going to go into more detail on how the proposed development is meeting the site plan approval criteria.

1799
05:21:45,000 --> 05:21:53,000
The first zero criteria are as follows. The driveway access on the site should be located in a manner to minimize land use impacts on adjacent land uses.

1800
05:21:53,000 --> 05:22:00,000
In separation distances shall provide shall be provided from any structure on the site on the budding residential or community facility properties.

1801
05:22:00,000 --> 05:22:06,000
No changes have been made to these plans relative to the last submission respect to this criteria.

1802
05:22:06,000 --> 05:22:18,000
A circle in red the proposed driveway is located near the center of the larger property as approximately 330 metres away from the budding property to the west and 625 metres from the budding property to the east.

1803
05:22:18,000 --> 05:22:27,000
Respective drawings are provided to show relation from the current street line towards the proposed site, which includes a changing grade, a berm and vegetation buffering.

1804
05:22:27,000 --> 05:22:40,000
All offstreet loading and unloading areas stockpiles, processing areas, and parking facilities should be located on the site in sex that no aspects impact upon adjacent uses or streets.

1805
05:22:40,000 --> 05:22:45,000
And screening can be in the form of fencing, berms, vegetation or combination of elements.

1806
05:22:45,000 --> 05:22:48,000
No changes have been made with respect to this criteria.

1807
05:22:48,000 --> 05:22:55,000
The top line outlines the proposed stockpile location, the bottom line, or sorry, the bottom outline is the processing areas.

1808
05:22:55,000 --> 05:23:04,000
Limitations, respecting stockpiling, heights, and size will be reviewed under licensing of construction and demolition material recycling and disposal bylaw, which is L200.

1809
05:23:04,000 --> 05:23:13,000
The processing areas located in minimum of 60 metres from both the rear and front lot lines, as well from the CD2 side zone lines.

1810
05:23:13,000 --> 05:23:29,000
The proposed parking facilities located 30 metres from the street, screening is provided in forms of preservation of 30 metres of an existing vegetation buffer, new vegetation along the front along with a 1.8 metre high berm and the installation of an opaque fence is proposed.

1811
05:23:29,000 --> 05:23:36,000
A landscaping plan shall be repaired that protects and minimizes land use impacts on adjoining lands, as well within the designated side in rear yards.

1812
05:23:36,000 --> 05:23:40,000
Is this in vegetation should we retain unless it does not provide adequate screening measures?

1813
05:23:40,000 --> 05:23:45,000
This was the section that was revised as part of the Session of Council to allow the appeal.

1814
05:23:45,000 --> 05:23:57,000
As per the submitted landscaping plan, the goal with the maintain and improve the existing vegetation on all side of the operation, to provide berms and planting of new trees along the front of the site of the site.

1815
05:23:57,000 --> 05:24:08,000
The proposed shows 30 metres of natural vegetation along the sides of both the side and rear yards, which provides adequate screening as observed by staff during a September 2025 site visit.

1816
05:24:08,000 --> 05:24:21,000
As illustrated, the updated fence was net fence, which is now proposed to be 3.1 metres tall, instead of 1.8 metres from the original proposal, includes privacy slates and a jersey berry at the bottom for additional screening.

1817
05:24:21,000 --> 05:24:36,000
A respective illustration also provides from the edge of the CT2 zone boundary, which is in relation to the current vegetation, the max stock pile height under L200 and the new proposed lock rating.

1818
05:24:36,000 --> 05:24:42,000
Within the designated side in rear yards existing vegetation shall be retained unless it does not provide adequate screening measures.

1819
05:24:42,000 --> 05:24:47,000
All lighting shall be oriented away from the adjacent properties and solid and waste storage containers shall be screened.

1820
05:24:47,000 --> 05:24:55,000
The proposed shows 30 metres of natural vegetation along the side and rear yards, which provides adequate screening for regrowth over the site visit.

1821
05:24:55,000 --> 05:25:05,000
The lighting to be proposed is directed towards the operations area and the parking lot is only and not, sorry, and the parking lot only and not towards the adjacent properties.

1822
05:25:05,000 --> 05:25:12,000
All solid waste containers will be located with a container storage area and will be fence and screened.

1823
05:25:12,000 --> 05:25:19,000
The applicant is also responsible for identifying the location of any proposed signage along with how many signs and their dimensions.

1824
05:25:19,000 --> 05:25:29,000
The last two criteria speak to the measures including but not limited to lock rating, firms, and they shall be required to be adequately addressed by the management of storm water and surface water.

1825
05:25:29,000 --> 05:25:36,000
And the provisions of the establishment are established to ensure that the operation and any required site improvements are maintained to a high standard.

1826
05:25:36,000 --> 05:25:39,000
No changes were made to this criteria.

1827
05:25:39,000 --> 05:25:48,000
There will be one groundside proposed at the front of the property which will be 7.5 metres in height with a sign face of 1.8 metres by 2.4 metres.

1828
05:25:48,000 --> 05:25:57,000
The red outline shows the proposed location of a storm water pond detailed and provided during the review as required grade alteration permit is by law G200.

1829
05:25:57,000 --> 05:26:01,000
The proposed operational points staff and one included operations manager.

1830
05:26:01,000 --> 05:26:08,000
The operations budget also includes provisions related to dusk control waste disposal maintenance of machinery and overall site organization.

1831
05:26:08,000 --> 05:26:16,000
Based on the information the applicant has provided the development officer determined is met the criteria of the site plan approval process.

1832
05:26:16,000 --> 05:26:24,000
Notification of the site plan approval was sent to adjacent property owners within a 30 metre buffer along the revised site plan and the development officer approval.

1833
05:26:24,000 --> 05:26:37,000
Some of the concerns outlined from residents were noise, air and water quality, impacts of lighting on adjacent properties increased traffic, visual screening and impact of property values.

1834
05:26:37,000 --> 05:26:55,000
As per section 247, one of the health axiomary regiollments faulty charter, development officer shall approve an application for site plan approval unless the matter subject to the site plan approval does not meet the criteria set in the land use by law or the applicant fails to enter and undertaking to carry out the terms of the site plan.

1835
05:26:55,000 --> 05:27:02,000
To be approved any proposed site plan approval must not conflict with any of the site plan approval requirements of the CG zone in the land use by law.

1836
05:27:02,000 --> 05:27:10,000
In hearing the appeal, council may make the decision development officer could have made as per section 247 for the health axiomary municipal municipality charter.

1837
05:27:10,000 --> 05:27:22,000
Those decisions are based upon the consideration of the criteria outlined in the presentation as required by section 22A5 for site plan approval under planning districts eight and nine's land use by law.

1838
05:27:22,000 --> 05:27:37,000
Regioll Council has two options first being the approval of the appeal which will result in the refusal of the site plan or denial of the appeal which result in the approval of the site plan staff recommend that regional council deny the appeal that concludes my presentation.

1839
05:27:37,000 --> 05:27:41,000
Thank you.

1840
05:27:41,000 --> 05:27:44,000
Thank you very much, Chris.

1841
05:27:44,000 --> 05:27:53,000
Council, are there any questions of clarification for the staff?

1842
05:27:53,000 --> 05:27:56,000
Councilor Kent.

1843
05:27:56,000 --> 05:27:58,000
Thank you.

1844
05:27:58,000 --> 05:28:00,000
Madam Deputy Mayor.

1845
05:28:00,000 --> 05:28:12,000
Just have a question around when the last site visit was done in relation to the storm water and the wetlands.

1846
05:28:12,000 --> 05:28:16,000
So I can confirm staff did visit site last September.

1847
05:28:16,000 --> 05:28:32,000
It was in relation to the buffering for the existing vegetation, the water courses and the delineation of the water courses will reviewed under G200 so when they have to come in for a lot grading permit that will be a requirement of that.

1848
05:28:32,000 --> 05:28:39,000
The retention pond was the only thing in relation to the criteria of the site plan approval at that time.

1849
05:28:39,000 --> 05:28:49,000
So so I don't know if this question is for you or someone else that I'm looking at or someone else that I'm looking at.

1850
05:28:49,000 --> 05:28:53,000
If this site plan is approved.

1851
05:28:53,000 --> 05:28:59,000
But because someone's visited there and we know that wetlands can grow.

1852
05:28:59,000 --> 05:29:15,000
What will happen at the permitting stage if the wetlands are not in a position of that they were purported to be and relation to this particular site plan.

1853
05:29:15,000 --> 05:29:24,000
So in relation to the delineation of any water courses or wetlands those are done by a professional qualified professional so at the time of permitting.

1854
05:29:24,000 --> 05:29:27,000
They would have to come in and show where that is.

1855
05:29:27,000 --> 05:29:33,000
It would be on the applicant to provide that at any stage during that everything is as said it should be.

1856
05:29:33,000 --> 05:29:42,000
It would be a risk on the applicant to not double check that at the time being beforehand in requiring revisions at a later state.

1857
05:29:42,000 --> 05:29:51,000
And if it was determined, I'll say it again. If it was determined that there is a change and it does not allow for a permit.

1858
05:29:51,000 --> 05:29:55,000
What will happen to this site plan? What is the requirement then?

1859
05:29:55,000 --> 05:30:00,000
Does it get revisited by staff? Does it come back to council?

1860
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:12,500
What if something significant has to shift?

1861
05:30:12,500 --> 05:30:17,240
Through you, Deputy Mayor to Councillor. So if there were theoretically to be some significant

1862
05:30:17,240 --> 05:30:26,480
shift that altered from the unapproved site plan approval, we would have to go back through the

1863
05:30:26,480 --> 05:30:33,480
process again to address that. And no one has been at that site since last September.

1864
05:30:33,480 --> 05:30:38,720
That's correct. We would be relying on the submissions of the applicant to determine

1865
05:30:38,720 --> 05:30:44,880
extensive of wetlands. We wouldn't honestly be in a position to determine on site without

1866
05:30:44,880 --> 05:30:50,200
having the right expertise exactly where the edge of a wetland is. That's a pretty detailed

1867
05:30:50,200 --> 05:30:53,480
and scientific analysis that we leave with the professionals.

1868
05:30:54,480 --> 05:30:58,480
Okay. Thank you.

1869
05:30:59,480 --> 05:31:03,480
All right. Thank you, Councillor. Can't count slur, digle, gamin.

1870
05:31:03,480 --> 05:31:10,480
Thank you, madam chair. Thank you, Chris. You speak fast.

1871
05:31:10,480 --> 05:31:18,480
I just want to be clear that since we heard this in June, the applicant has only made one change

1872
05:31:19,480 --> 05:31:24,480
which would be the height of the fence. So having heard all of everything that's going on,

1873
05:31:24,480 --> 05:31:28,480
there's still only been one change made by the applicant.

1874
05:31:28,480 --> 05:31:37,480
That is, you have mostly correct. So the proposal was initially denied under that subsection that

1875
05:31:37,480 --> 05:31:42,480
required for buffering on the side of the line. So they've increased their fencing. Also, they've adjusted the

1876
05:31:42,480 --> 05:31:46,480
setting with the fence for the appendice. So for seeing through and allowing to breathe through,

1877
05:31:46,480 --> 05:31:53,480
as well as allotted the jersey barrier at the bottom for any heavier materials that may be impacted

1878
05:31:53,480 --> 05:31:57,480
along that side of the line. Right. Okay. Thanks very much.

1879
05:32:01,480 --> 05:32:02,480
Okay.

1880
05:32:03,480 --> 05:32:09,480
That was everyone on the board. So seeing no further questions of clarification,

1881
05:32:09,480 --> 05:32:15,480
I will now invite the appellants to speak. We have three appellants.

1882
05:32:15,480 --> 05:32:20,480
Janice and Randy stoddard, Derek and Gail stoddard.

1883
05:32:20,480 --> 05:32:25,480
Pat Bohn, who is being represented by Braden Thomas.

1884
05:32:27,480 --> 05:32:34,480
So I'll ask, there you are. You're assuming your Janice and Randy?

1885
05:32:34,480 --> 05:32:40,480
Yep. Okay. Welcome. So we ask that you please keep your comments for

1886
05:32:40,480 --> 05:32:45,480
speckful on top of the site plan and directed to the chair.

1887
05:32:45,480 --> 05:32:51,480
The clerk will announce when you have 30 seconds remaining and your time is complete.

1888
05:32:51,480 --> 05:32:56,480
So welcome and I will turn the floor over to you.

1889
05:32:56,480 --> 05:32:57,480
Go ahead.

1890
05:32:58,480 --> 05:33:02,480
In the staff report on the revised C&D site plan submission,

1891
05:33:02,480 --> 05:33:06,480
the HRM development officer stated that the increase in height

1892
05:33:06,480 --> 05:33:10,480
offencing approximately two feet in the additional vegetation screening along

1893
05:33:10,480 --> 05:33:15,480
the eastern portion of the proposed C&D site mitigates impacts on the

1894
05:33:15,480 --> 05:33:21,480
joining lands. The land used by law has specific requirements of which must be met.

1895
05:33:21,480 --> 05:33:23,480
This is simply not the case.

1896
05:33:24,480 --> 05:33:26,480
The plan states that's screening.

1897
05:33:26,480 --> 05:33:30,480
The plan states that screening will be provided by existing vegetation on all

1898
05:33:30,480 --> 05:33:33,480
sides and the firms with new plantings will be used along with opaque

1899
05:33:33,480 --> 05:33:39,480
fencing. Again, due to the wildfire in 2008, the existing vegetation is

1900
05:33:39,480 --> 05:33:43,480
still after 18 years, basically some small bushes and trees which will not

1901
05:33:43,480 --> 05:33:47,480
screen anything with any height. Also note where the is that the majority of

1902
05:33:47,480 --> 05:33:51,480
existing vegetation is leaf bearing that's only present for one season.

1903
05:33:51,480 --> 05:33:54,480
The proposed site floats upward from the road and will be in full view

1904
05:33:54,480 --> 05:33:57,480
despite any proposed screening. The height of the berm is not

1905
05:33:57,480 --> 05:34:00,480
stated that it has to be extremely high, nor is the height of the new

1906
05:34:00,480 --> 05:34:05,480
Kniffer's plantings mentioned. By the 228.5 states that the plan shall

1907
05:34:05,480 --> 05:34:09,480
indicate the size, type, and location of all landscaping elements, including

1908
05:34:09,480 --> 05:34:12,480
along the front of the property. Nothing in the site plan specifically

1909
05:34:12,480 --> 05:34:15,480
mentions those details.

1910
05:34:15,480 --> 05:34:18,480
The development officer stated that vegetation in the rear

1911
05:34:18,480 --> 05:34:23,480
setback provides adequate screening and that the existing vegetation from

1912
05:34:23,480 --> 05:34:27,480
the east and west sides will be retained. Again, those words existing

1913
05:34:27,480 --> 05:34:30,480
vegetation, it's simply not there in any area of the site.

1914
05:34:30,480 --> 05:34:34,480
Whose definition of adequate is to be used? Again, this is just two

1915
05:34:34,480 --> 05:34:37,480
vague. Who gets to make all these determinations?

1916
05:34:37,480 --> 05:34:40,480
It certainly shouldn't be the developer nor the landscape company who was

1917
05:34:40,480 --> 05:34:43,480
paid by Mr. Belfound to develop a plan that fits his needs.

1918
05:34:43,480 --> 05:34:46,480
A side fence height increases two feet is not going to make any

1919
05:34:46,480 --> 05:34:50,480
difference in terms of screening, nor is the non-specific

1920
05:34:50,480 --> 05:34:54,480
net improved natural buffer along the roadway. These small changes will not

1921
05:34:54,480 --> 05:34:58,480
magically stop the negative impact to adjoining properties. The site

1922
05:34:58,480 --> 05:35:02,480
map provided is over 10 years old now. It is very inaccurate and doesn't

1923
05:35:02,480 --> 05:35:06,480
even closely reflect the multiple wet land areas and waterways, which

1924
05:35:06,480 --> 05:35:10,480
would be affected. The area proposed for the C&D facility as well as the

1925
05:35:10,480 --> 05:35:13,480
lands on either side contains numerous wet land areas of

1926
05:35:13,480 --> 05:35:16,480
water, which ultimately flow into our lakes, rivers, and streams.

1927
05:35:16,480 --> 05:35:19,480
Their families of beavers who have built their homes. The water course is grown

1928
05:35:19,480 --> 05:35:22,480
in size and just the last year, and the trees are dying there.

1929
05:35:22,480 --> 05:35:26,480
As the water course extends throughout a near the proposed C&D area, the

1930
05:35:26,480 --> 05:35:30,480
potential for harm of not only the beavers, but of numerous other plants

1931
05:35:30,480 --> 05:35:33,480
and wildlife is imminent. Should the plan be accepted?

1932
05:35:33,480 --> 05:35:37,480
We don't believe that H&M has had a complete environmental assessment of the

1933
05:35:37,480 --> 05:35:41,480
area done by a qualified environmental engineer, and we certainly hope that

1934
05:35:41,480 --> 05:35:44,480
staff will not just accept the word of those paid by Mr.

1935
05:35:44,480 --> 05:35:48,480
Belfountain that all in the plan would be just fine. The area must be viewed to see

1936
05:35:48,480 --> 05:35:52,480
the impact such a facility will have. The site map provided by the

1937
05:35:52,480 --> 05:35:56,480
landscaping company, states that all locations are approximate and for

1938
05:35:56,480 --> 05:35:59,480
site plan approval purposes only. Should not up-to-date accurate

1939
05:35:59,480 --> 05:36:03,480
information be provided prior to considering approval for a facility?

1940
05:36:03,480 --> 05:36:06,480
Shouldn't the appropriateness of a site be determined by an actual

1941
05:36:06,480 --> 05:36:09,480
investigation rather than by just a submitted piece of paper?

1942
05:36:09,480 --> 05:36:13,480
Our communities deserve better than this.

1943
05:36:13,480 --> 05:36:17,480
The planning use by law states that provisions are established to ensure

1944
05:36:17,480 --> 05:36:20,480
the operation in any required site plan

1945
05:36:20,480 --> 05:36:24,480
improvements are maintained to a high standard. Who determines that

1946
05:36:24,480 --> 05:36:28,480
high standard what it is? The development officers stated that there will be

1947
05:36:28,480 --> 05:36:32,480
staff including an operations manager along with the budget for

1948
05:36:32,480 --> 05:36:36,480
dust control, waste, etc. That's all well and good, though a number of

1949
05:36:36,480 --> 05:36:43,480
years back to Bree was buried on site by Kean, which had to be ordered to be

1950
05:36:43,480 --> 05:36:48,480
removed. This certainly does not make us trust that the right thing will be done.

1951
05:36:48,480 --> 05:36:54,480
The HRM 2002 regulations for approving such a facility such as that has been

1952
05:36:54,480 --> 05:36:59,480
proposed are hopefully outdated and inadequate. Should the HRM

1953
05:36:59,480 --> 05:37:04,480
regulations not go hand in hand with the new Nova Scotia regulations for

1954
05:37:04,480 --> 05:37:09,480
such facilities? It is imperative that HRM immediately improve and update

1955
05:37:09,480 --> 05:37:14,480
the regulations to reflect current environmental knowledge and issues prior to

1956
05:37:14,480 --> 05:37:18,480
any consideration for a site approval for any C&D facility.

1957
05:37:18,480 --> 05:37:25,480
All criteria land use by law 228.5 have not been met as we understand they

1958
05:37:25,480 --> 05:37:29,480
must be given this. Given this, we ask the council not approve the

1959
05:37:29,480 --> 05:37:31,480
application for the C&D facility.

1960
05:37:31,480 --> 05:37:35,480
Just because there are other C&D sites beside residential areas does not

1961
05:37:35,480 --> 05:37:38,480
mean there without issue and inappropriate locations.

1962
05:37:38,480 --> 05:37:41,480
And we are sure there are councillors able to speak to this.

1963
05:37:41,480 --> 05:37:45,480
Ross Rowe, which was established in 2000, is only a transfer station C-D-1.

1964
05:37:45,480 --> 05:37:50,480
The proposed C&D is for a C-D-2 processing station as well, which includes

1965
05:37:50,480 --> 05:37:54,480
constant cutting and grinding. You have to compare apples to apples.

1966
05:37:54,480 --> 05:37:58,480
And one last thing I feel that our county councillor hence be should be able to

1967
05:37:58,480 --> 05:38:03,480
be a part of this process. Thank you.

1968
05:38:03,480 --> 05:38:06,480
Janice and Randy, thank you very much.

1969
05:38:06,480 --> 05:38:09,480
Next on the list, we have Derek.

1970
05:38:09,480 --> 05:38:12,480
Sorry.

1971
05:38:12,480 --> 05:38:15,480
I have to change my screens here with apologies.

1972
05:38:15,480 --> 05:38:20,480
Sorry, if you Janice and Randy, we have a couple of questions for you.

1973
05:38:20,480 --> 05:38:23,480
First, the councillor Kent.

1974
05:38:24,480 --> 05:38:26,480
Thank you, Madam WD Mayor.

1975
05:38:26,480 --> 05:38:31,480
So questions are in relation to me understanding what I'm looking at.

1976
05:38:31,480 --> 05:38:36,480
Can we put the hook there presentation up again, please?

1977
05:38:36,480 --> 05:38:41,480
So let's look at the first slide.

1978
05:38:41,480 --> 05:38:43,480
Is that it?

1979
05:38:43,480 --> 05:38:46,480
No.

1980
05:38:46,480 --> 05:38:50,480
Yeah, there we go.

1981
05:38:50,480 --> 05:38:56,480
So when we're looking at maps with just the site plan, this is this

1982
05:38:56,480 --> 05:39:03,480
the body of water that is in question relation to the storm water pond and

1983
05:39:03,480 --> 05:39:05,480
the back of the property.

1984
05:39:05,480 --> 05:39:11,480
This is the largest wetland obvious wetland on the property.

1985
05:39:11,480 --> 05:39:15,480
And if we were looking at the site plan, are we looking at it being on this side?

1986
05:39:15,480 --> 05:39:20,480
It would be the bottom to the left and forward.

1987
05:39:20,480 --> 05:39:25,480
So it's on the bottom of the wetland on this particular highway.

1988
05:39:25,480 --> 05:39:28,480
More toward the front, I guess.

1989
05:39:28,480 --> 05:39:29,480
Yes.

1990
05:39:29,480 --> 05:39:34,480
And your photographs are saying June 26, are these by a drone?

1991
05:39:34,480 --> 05:39:35,480
Yes.

1992
05:39:35,480 --> 05:39:36,480
So they're not off Google.

1993
05:39:36,480 --> 05:39:37,480
No, these are drone.

1994
05:39:37,480 --> 05:39:38,480
Yeah.

1995
05:39:38,480 --> 05:39:40,480
These are just taken last weekend.

1996
05:39:40,480 --> 05:39:44,480
There are a couple in here that are from the previous June only because

1997
05:39:44,480 --> 05:39:48,480
the site line, it was terrible weather as we've had lately.

1998
05:39:48,480 --> 05:39:53,480
And you couldn't get up high enough to get sort of some better overall runs,

1999
05:39:53,480 --> 05:39:57,480
although I did include some of those in the presentation.

2000
05:39:57,480 --> 05:39:58,480
In this wetland.

2001
05:39:58,480 --> 05:40:01,480
You need to.

2002
05:40:01,480 --> 05:40:02,480
Yes.

2003
05:40:02,480 --> 05:40:06,480
The wetland that you see there actually extends then on the other side of the road.

2004
05:40:06,480 --> 05:40:10,480
And you can see other pictures will have the wetlands there.

2005
05:40:10,480 --> 05:40:11,480
Okay.

2006
05:40:11,480 --> 05:40:12,480
All right. Well, thank you very much.

2007
05:40:12,480 --> 05:40:14,480
Appreciate it.

2008
05:40:14,480 --> 05:40:16,480
All right.

2009
05:40:16,480 --> 05:40:17,480
Thank you.

2010
05:40:17,480 --> 05:40:20,480
Councillor Mancini.

2011
05:40:20,480 --> 05:40:22,480
Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

2012
05:40:22,480 --> 05:40:24,480
Thank you both for the presentation.

2013
05:40:24,480 --> 05:40:27,480
Could you clarify again, you talked about the vegetation.

2014
05:40:27,480 --> 05:40:30,480
We had the wildfire and then what's growing back.

2015
05:40:30,480 --> 05:40:34,480
What's the height, the average height, and the vegetation that exists there now?

2016
05:40:34,480 --> 05:40:38,480
You can see from the photos that it is not very tall.

2017
05:40:38,480 --> 05:40:45,480
And any of the vegetation that has grown there, there are the odd trees that are a little taller

2018
05:40:45,480 --> 05:40:48,480
that the wildfire did manage to avoid.

2019
05:40:48,480 --> 05:40:58,480
But for the most parts, I mean, you can see here the left of the dead trees that have died because of the wetland expansion.

2020
05:40:58,480 --> 05:41:10,480
To the left of that would be where the stormpong goes actually touching the wetland now and to the left in behind of that also.

2021
05:41:10,480 --> 05:41:19,480
And in your opinion, since you live there, what would the height need to be to do action had appropriate screenings that wouldn't do the site?

2022
05:41:19,480 --> 05:41:23,480
That's the big question because it's all on an upward slope.

2023
05:41:23,480 --> 05:41:27,480
Well, if you had a tree and you're standing right in front of the tree, well, you're not going to see.

2024
05:41:27,480 --> 05:41:33,480
But if you're standing back 20 or 30 or 60 or 100 or 200 feet, it's going to be there.

2025
05:41:33,480 --> 05:41:38,480
There's a microphone.

2026
05:41:38,480 --> 05:41:44,480
The picture that we had on the screen, you can see just off to the right.

2027
05:41:44,480 --> 05:41:47,480
There's actually a little subdivision there.

2028
05:41:47,480 --> 05:41:56,480
We believe as well across the street from this proposed C&D is another development that's going in that may very wealthy subdivision.

2029
05:41:56,480 --> 05:41:58,480
I can't say for certain, but there's that.

2030
05:41:58,480 --> 05:42:00,480
There's something going on there.

2031
05:42:00,480 --> 05:42:06,480
So there's more to it than just meets the eye when you look at the site.

2032
05:42:06,480 --> 05:42:09,480
I mean, you can see from the photo that's up now.

2033
05:42:09,480 --> 05:42:16,480
You can see how the wetlands have expanded and the larger trees that had been initially saved from the forest fire and now dead.

2034
05:42:16,480 --> 05:42:19,480
Because of that expansion.

2035
05:42:19,480 --> 05:42:22,480
Okay, thank you both. Thank you, W Amer.

2036
05:42:22,480 --> 05:42:25,480
Thank you, Councillor.

2037
05:42:25,480 --> 05:42:31,480
Okay, so that is everybody on the board for you.

2038
05:42:39,480 --> 05:42:44,480
I would say later because we've already had stuff and stuff can come back.

2039
05:42:44,480 --> 05:42:46,480
So yeah, note your questions.

2040
05:42:46,480 --> 05:42:49,480
Yep. Okay, thank you, Janice and Randy.

2041
05:42:49,480 --> 05:42:53,480
Next on the list, we have Derek and Gale started.

2042
05:43:02,480 --> 05:43:04,480
There, Mr. started.

2043
05:43:04,480 --> 05:43:07,480
Again, I just remind you to please keep your comments respectful.

2044
05:43:07,480 --> 05:43:13,480
I'm topic and directed to the chair and the cooler.

2045
05:43:15,480 --> 05:43:18,480
No, no.

2046
05:43:18,480 --> 05:43:22,480
We need the clerk to start to start the clock.

2047
05:43:29,480 --> 05:43:30,480
I just clarify something.

2048
05:43:30,480 --> 05:43:31,480
Madam chair.

2049
05:43:31,480 --> 05:43:32,480
Yep.

2050
05:43:32,480 --> 05:43:36,480
So if I just before you start.

2051
05:43:36,480 --> 05:43:38,480
Members of council to.

2052
05:43:38,480 --> 05:43:40,480
To the councilors questions.

2053
05:43:41,480 --> 05:43:56,480
If you have additional questions with respect to the to the picture, you can ask them of the respondent when when when when they respond.

2054
05:43:56,480 --> 05:43:58,480
Staff has given you the background.

2055
05:43:58,480 --> 05:44:06,480
This is a matter of an appeal between the appellants and the respondent will have an opportunity to respond.

2056
05:44:07,480 --> 05:44:08,480
All right. Thank you.

2057
05:44:08,480 --> 05:44:10,480
Councillor Minceini question of clarification.

2058
05:44:10,480 --> 05:44:11,480
Yes, please.

2059
05:44:11,480 --> 05:44:16,480
So Mr. Traves, if we have questions of process that have come up.

2060
05:44:16,480 --> 05:44:18,480
Because we're hearing from the public.

2061
05:44:18,480 --> 05:44:21,480
Who do we ask those questions of the chair.

2062
05:44:23,480 --> 05:44:28,480
And if the chair needs assistance, then we'll then we will assist in terms of process.

2063
05:44:28,480 --> 05:44:29,480
Yeah.

2064
05:44:29,480 --> 05:44:33,480
Thank you.

2065
05:44:33,480 --> 05:44:34,480
Thank you. Okay.

2066
05:44:35,480 --> 05:44:36,480
Mr. Staudert.

2067
05:44:38,480 --> 05:44:39,480
Are you ready?

2068
05:44:44,480 --> 05:44:46,480
Are you ready? Okay. So you have five minutes.

2069
05:44:46,480 --> 05:44:47,480
The floor is yours.

2070
05:44:47,480 --> 05:44:49,480
Thank you.

2071
05:44:49,480 --> 05:44:51,480
Good evening council.

2072
05:44:51,480 --> 05:44:52,480
My name is Derek Staudert.

2073
05:44:52,480 --> 05:44:57,480
I'm here tonight as an adjacent landowner property that has been in our family for over 100 years.

2074
05:44:57,480 --> 05:44:59,480
Under the health effects region of municipality.

2075
05:44:59,480 --> 05:45:00,480
I'm going to tell the chair.

2076
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:25,000
A site plan approval must be refused if it conflicts with a land use by-law. This specific site plan is non-compliant for two reasons. The ten-foot fence is placed directly on the zoning line with that the required visual screening, and an industrial stormwater selling pond is located directly inside the mandatory environmental water course setback, because this layout explicitly violates a text of your by-law, it cannot legally be approved.

2077
05:45:25,000 --> 05:45:34,000
Let's first address the developer proposed ten-foot chain length fence with plastic privacy slats placed directly on the line between the CD2 and the Aries zone.

2078
05:45:34,000 --> 05:45:42,000
The developer's site plan relies on the existence of vegetation to massive mass of structure, but reality tells us a completely different story.

2079
05:45:42,000 --> 05:45:50,000
As these photos taken from Highway 7 clearly show, the existing vegetation is sparse. You can see straight through it and pass into the industrial site.

2080
05:45:50,000 --> 05:46:00,000
Because the required vegetation is functionally non-existent, this ten-foot fence stands completely exposed as a stark looming industrial isor.

2081
05:46:00,000 --> 05:46:07,000
The developers attempting to use section 22A5C, which state screening can be in a form of fencing.

2082
05:46:07,000 --> 05:46:17,000
But for a fence to achieve this, it must be an opaque, opaque screen, meaning it must completely block visibility to protect adjacent properties.

2083
05:46:17,000 --> 05:46:33,000
A chain length fence with plastic slats is strictly semi-transparent. The angled wire mesh leaves a permanent 5% to 15% air open air gap, letting in the view of the CDC of C and D operations straight through.

2084
05:46:33,000 --> 05:46:39,000
Furthermore, in our climate, these plastic slats warp, twist, and blow out and wind storms.

2085
05:46:39,000 --> 05:46:49,000
Because the by-law requires an effective visual screen and because my photographs proved the existing natural buffers completely absent, this semi-transparent fence is forced to stand alone.

2086
05:46:49,000 --> 05:46:59,000
It's a physically impossible for this structure with permanent open air gaps to satisfy the visual screening requirements of section 22A5.

2087
05:46:59,000 --> 05:47:17,000
Next, let's address the storm water pond. Under section 22B4A3 of the land use by-laws, any C and D processing facility structure or operation must maintain a mandatory non-discrationary buffer zone with a minimum set back from a water course of 60 meters.

2088
05:47:17,000 --> 05:47:22,000
A 60-meter buffer that is incorrect on the developer's submitted plan.

2089
05:47:23,000 --> 05:47:31,000
An engineered storm water settling pond is the structure designed to collect silt heavy metals oil and debris runoff from sorting and heavy crushing.

2090
05:47:31,000 --> 05:47:42,000
It is not a natural feature. Yet as you can see from the measurements on the developer's own plan, this open air pond is jammed directly inside the 60-meter environmental protection zone.

2091
05:47:42,000 --> 05:47:52,000
It sits less than 5 meters from open water. This is not a minor technicality. The narrow restrictive shape of the CD2 zone means the developer has limited physical space.

2092
05:47:52,000 --> 05:48:00,000
They are trying to force an illegal layout into a tight corridor, hoping the water course boundary will be ignored.

2093
05:48:00,000 --> 05:48:12,000
Enforcing the 60-meter buffer, enforcing the 60-meter buffer of this location will push the pond well into the active operation area collapsing the developer's layout.

2094
05:48:12,000 --> 05:48:24,000
In your HR and briefing package, you receive today regarding the appeal you will see under the storm water section PH5, the staff report notes addressed in previous sites plans approval submission.

2095
05:48:24,000 --> 05:48:38,000
A staff note referencing a passive mission does not magically make this pond legally compliant. It simply means the issue was looked at during a previous paperwork cycle for a project that was never completed or fully approved under today's strict criteria.

2096
05:48:38,000 --> 05:48:50,000
The same section also speaks to the required grade alteration permit under G200. The alteration permit does not omit the need for the developer correctly identify

2097
05:48:50,000 --> 05:49:02,000
A correctly indicate is compliance with the 60-meter setback on its plan. The 60-meter water course rule exists because council recognize that C&D processing possesses an extraordinary threat to local water tables.

2098
05:49:02,000 --> 05:49:14,000
If this pond is permitted inside the environmental ban, industrial silt and leechate will sit directly adjacent to the water system feeding the residential wells and porters lake and lake echo.

2099
05:49:14,000 --> 05:49:24,000
In conclusion, to protect the integrity of your planning documents, our water shed in our community, I respectfully request the council to upload the law,

2100
05:49:24,000 --> 05:49:42,000
I allow the appeal and reject the site plan approval. Before I leave the photo that's up for you now, I can tell you that I visited the property last week and the the arrow pointing to the corner post was one meter from the water and the blue area is actually measured.

2101
05:49:42,000 --> 05:49:44,000
It's not.

2102
05:49:44,000 --> 05:49:50,000
Thank you.

2103
05:49:50,000 --> 05:49:52,000
You can finish your sentence there.

2104
05:49:52,000 --> 05:50:04,000
Blue area represents an actual measured area. It's not a guess. It is actually where the water was and my son took the trip around with his GPS unit from work, which is a calibrated unit. They went around he measured it.

2105
05:50:04,000 --> 05:50:14,000
And the blue line that overlaps with the corner of the and the line of the developers zone line is correct. So the water is actually over.

2106
05:50:14,000 --> 05:50:24,000
Thank you. Thank you.

2107
05:50:24,000 --> 05:50:30,000
I do not see any questions of clarification.

2108
05:50:30,000 --> 05:50:43,000
Seeing no questions of clarification. Thank you Mr. Staudard and I will now ask Pat Bonn who's being represented by Braden Thomas to please come forward.

2109
05:50:43,000 --> 05:50:55,000
Again, I just want to remind you to keep your comments respectful on topic of the site plan and directed to the chair.

2110
05:50:55,000 --> 05:51:01,000
The clerk will announce when you have 30 seconds remaining and when your time is complete.

2111
05:51:01,000 --> 05:51:09,000
If you could just please confirm your name and then the floor is yours for five minutes. Yes.

2112
05:51:09,000 --> 05:51:19,000
And that's it.

2113
05:51:19,000 --> 05:51:37,000
I just said to that particular presenter. Good job and it was in relation to his capacity to do it. He was sort of out of breath and probably somewhat nervous and that's what that was about it was in no way me taking a position on his.

2114
05:51:37,000 --> 05:51:41,000
Thank you. Thank you noted, Councillor Kent.

2115
05:51:41,000 --> 05:51:47,000
Okay. Mr. Thomas.

2116
05:51:47,000 --> 05:52:03,000
Thank you Deputy Mayor Council, Deputy be here. My name is Braden Thomas. I am acting as a proxy speaker speaking upon request of Pat Bonn who is the owner of the two properties that are displayed here in yellow located to the north of the applicant's property displayed in red.

2117
05:52:03,000 --> 05:52:13,000
So this is my third opportunity to speak in front of council and tonight I will continue speaking to concerns around wetlands and water courses as a qualified wetland professional myself.

2118
05:52:13,000 --> 05:52:28,000
Presented here on the left is what I've shown before with provincial mapped wetlands and white and in orange outline is what I'm inferring as potential wetlands on the property utilizing satellite imagery visual observations from highway seven and publicly available modeling tools.

2119
05:52:28,000 --> 05:52:34,000
As such it is believed that the site plan is inaccurate with respect to wetlands and water courses.

2120
05:52:34,000 --> 05:52:43,000
In more recent hearings we've discussed that length the role the municipality has when it comes to wetlands and water courses which are more typically jurisdiction of the province.

2121
05:52:43,000 --> 05:52:50,000
Well this is true due diligence by HRM is necessary to ensure these considerations have been assessed by qualified persons.

2122
05:52:50,000 --> 05:53:03,000
When it comes to municipal matters such as stormwater management, grading, erosion and sedimentation control and landscaping plans, wetlands and water courses are a significant consideration that need to be properly evaluated.

2123
05:53:03,000 --> 05:53:08,000
Stormwater in particular has a strong influence from wetland and water course presence.

2124
05:53:08,000 --> 05:53:17,000
I went back and I rewatch the applicant speaker from last summer's hearing and just wanted to bring up a few quotes from the speaker regarding the supposed wetland donations.

2125
05:53:17,000 --> 05:53:25,000
And I quote, many many site visits not a desktop exercise the environment doesn't change that much in five years.

2126
05:53:25,000 --> 05:53:27,000
Ground truth thing has been done.

2127
05:53:27,000 --> 05:53:36,000
Eight site visits were done by engineers experienced in deleting wetlands and when asked on timing of the most recent wetland field visits and I quote.

2128
05:53:36,000 --> 05:53:47,000
Not certain I wasn't there I know extensive site visits were completed between 2015 and 2020 believe engineers and surveyors went out in 2023 but I don't know specific dates.

2129
05:53:47,000 --> 05:54:02,000
Building off of those quotes we believe that HRM should be requiring the names of the qualified persons allegedly assessing wetlands and water courses along with their CVs that clearly exemplify their qualifications in the scientific process of wetland donation.

2130
05:54:02,000 --> 05:54:15,000
Clearification on the dates of the supposed assessments will also be valuable as data on wetlands is typically considered valid for five years as the environment is known to change in that time contrary to the applicant's beliefs.

2131
05:54:15,000 --> 05:54:18,000
In my professional experience I've seen on numerous occasions.

2132
05:54:18,000 --> 05:54:25,000
The HRM has had the authority to request wetland and water course donation results and methodologies.

2133
05:54:25,000 --> 05:54:39,000
HRM has also previously required on numerous projects results of the West AC functional assessment tool which is a tool that is used by biologists to quantify the value and function of a wetland.

2134
05:54:39,000 --> 05:54:46,000
Going into screening now we've talked at length about the lack of existing vegetation on the property from the wildfire.

2135
05:54:47,000 --> 05:55:00,000
The applicant has increased the height of the proposed fence by 63 centimeters and has new schematics that identify areas of established forest, including a long highway seven and outside on the sides of the CD-2 zoning.

2136
05:55:00,000 --> 05:55:04,000
Other speakers have just shown drone imagery that I believe puts those claims in the question.

2137
05:55:04,000 --> 05:55:06,000
Will vegetation has begun recovery?

2138
05:55:06,000 --> 05:55:09,000
It's a stretch to say that it is established anywhere within the state.

2139
05:55:09,000 --> 05:55:16,000
Particularly in the drone images you can actually see significant portions of the tall trees that are dying from the B-reactivity.

2140
05:55:16,000 --> 05:55:25,000
The applicant will also be showing you some photos here shortly of the CD-1 transfer facility on Ross Road likely in a attempt to compare screening at that location.

2141
05:55:25,000 --> 05:55:28,000
It should be noted that this comparison is poor.

2142
05:55:28,000 --> 05:55:35,000
Is that facility is a CD transfer location that does not utilize permanent stockpiles like a CD-2 wood.

2143
05:55:35,000 --> 05:55:42,000
The fencing utilized at this facility works in tandem with the extensive vegetation that is present that I will note is taller than the power lines.

2144
05:55:42,000 --> 05:55:47,000
To compare Ross Road's mature vegetation to the applicant's property is not reasonable.

2145
05:55:47,000 --> 05:55:57,000
Additionally, most of the screening on the proponents property is deciduous offering no screening during the majority of the year when the foliage is not out.

2146
05:55:57,000 --> 05:56:05,000
To summarize on wetlands HRM needs to place more consideration as it pertains to stormwater, grading, landscaping and erosion and cementation.

2147
05:56:05,000 --> 05:56:09,000
Evidence of assessment by qualified individual individuals should be required.

2148
05:56:09,000 --> 05:56:16,000
The environmental reports from 2015 that the applicant quotes does not mention any wetland donation or evidence thereof.

2149
05:56:17,000 --> 05:56:31,000
Screening remains a legitimate concern of the community and increasing proposed fencing by 63 centimeters does not make any meaningful impact to the applicant's ability to be able to properly screen land use impacts and impacts to adjoining lands.

2150
05:56:31,000 --> 05:56:36,000
And the characterization of vegetation on site has been grossly misrepresented.

2151
05:56:36,000 --> 05:56:41,000
Speaking on behalf of the community, we strongly urge council to reject the site plan and vote for the appeal.

2152
05:56:41,000 --> 05:56:44,000
Thank you.

2153
05:56:44,000 --> 05:56:48,000
Thank you Mr. Thomas.

2154
05:56:48,000 --> 05:56:54,000
Any questions of clarification from council.

2155
05:56:54,000 --> 05:56:58,000
I see no questions.

2156
05:56:58,000 --> 05:57:04,000
So with that, thank you very much for your presentation.

2157
05:57:04,000 --> 05:57:12,000
I will now invite those who have identified that they are affected by the decision differently than the general public to speak.

2158
05:57:12,000 --> 05:57:19,000
We have one person pre registered and that is Lisa Grammysel.

2159
05:57:19,000 --> 05:57:21,000
Lisa.

2160
05:57:21,000 --> 05:57:22,000
Are you here?

2161
05:57:22,000 --> 05:57:23,000
Up there you are.

2162
05:57:23,000 --> 05:57:25,000
Please come up to the microphone.

2163
05:57:25,000 --> 05:57:34,000
You must start by telling council your name, your community, and why you are affected differently than the general public.

2164
05:57:35,000 --> 05:57:42,000
For you to take a seat, because this is a new process for me and I think for some of us who haven't been thrown appeal before.

2165
05:57:42,000 --> 05:57:44,000
So I'll just say this again.

2166
05:57:44,000 --> 05:57:51,000
You need to start by telling us your name, your community, and why you are affected differently than the general public.

2167
05:57:51,000 --> 05:58:00,000
Then council, you will decide whether to permit Miss Grammysel to speak or not.

2168
05:58:00,000 --> 05:58:07,000
And also agrees, then Lisa, you will have five minutes to speak to the appeal.

2169
05:58:07,000 --> 05:58:10,000
So does everyone understand the process here?

2170
05:58:10,000 --> 05:58:12,000
So it's a two step process.

2171
05:58:12,000 --> 05:58:22,000
Okay, so with that, I'll hand the floor over to you to tell us again your name, your community, and why you are affected differently than the general public.

2172
05:58:22,000 --> 05:58:25,000
Thank you Deputy Mayor and council members.

2173
05:58:25,000 --> 05:58:29,000
While my residence falls outside the formal notification area,

2174
05:58:29,000 --> 05:58:34,000
I am directly affected by the proposed construction and demolition processing facility.

2175
05:58:34,000 --> 05:58:38,000
And respectfully request the opportunity to address the council.

2176
05:58:38,000 --> 05:58:54,000
My family and I live in this surrounding community and regularly use the roads, recreation areas, and local amenities that may be affected by the increased industrial traffic, noise, dust, and other operational impacts associated with this development.

2177
05:58:54,000 --> 05:59:06,000
As a homeowner, I am also concerned about the potential effects on the character of the area, quality of life, and property values within the broader community surrounding the site.

2178
05:59:06,000 --> 05:59:20,000
My interest in this matter differs from that of the general public because the proposed facility would operate in close proximity to the community in which I live, raise my family, and have made a significant personal and financial investment.

2179
05:59:20,000 --> 05:59:23,000
The potential impacts are not theoretical.

2180
05:59:23,000 --> 05:59:28,000
They would directly affect my family's daily life and enjoyment of our community.

2181
05:59:28,000 --> 05:59:35,000
Should regional council permit me to speak, my comments will be directed directly related to the appeal.

2182
05:59:35,000 --> 05:59:45,000
And we'll focus on the compatibility of proposed development within this surrounding area, potential impacts on residents, traffic, and environmental concerns.

2183
05:59:45,000 --> 05:59:56,000
And the long-term impact of locating this type of industrial operation near established residential communities. Thank you.

2184
05:59:56,000 --> 05:59:57,000
Thank you.

2185
05:59:57,000 --> 06:00:00,000
So now it's up to.

2186
06:00:00,000 --> 06:00:06,000
Council to decide if Councilor Cleary?

2187
06:00:06,000 --> 06:00:12,000
Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Just a quick question to you and maybe our solicitor. Are we allowed

2188
06:00:12,000 --> 06:00:16,000
to ask questions of clarification?

2189
06:00:18,000 --> 06:00:24,000
As you know, reason, you have to be satisfied as a council at the individuals should be heard.

2190
06:00:24,000 --> 06:00:28,000
Okay, just very quickly. Thank you for coming. Can you tell us approximately how many

2191
06:00:28,000 --> 06:00:32,000
feet yards meters you are away from the site?

2192
06:00:32,000 --> 06:00:36,000
I didn't do an exact, but it's pretty much in my backyard.

2193
06:00:36,000 --> 06:00:40,000
Can you guess? This is for media, for media.

2194
06:00:40,000 --> 06:00:42,000
Probably within two kilometers.

2195
06:00:42,000 --> 06:00:44,000
Within two kilometers from my house.

2196
06:00:44,000 --> 06:00:46,000
Yes. Thank you.

2197
06:00:46,000 --> 06:00:50,000
Thank you, and Councillor Kent.

2198
06:00:50,000 --> 06:00:56,000
Yes, thank you. I think this question is for the solicitor or perhaps staff.

2199
06:00:56,000 --> 06:01:02,000
The consideration here is affected differently than the general public.

2200
06:01:02,000 --> 06:01:08,000
So clearly, she's the general public. I just want to know what is the definition in this situation?

2201
06:01:08,000 --> 06:01:14,000
Is it the people that were within the formal notification space?

2202
06:01:14,000 --> 06:01:18,000
Or is it all of HRM?

2203
06:01:18,000 --> 06:01:24,000
So council recognizes those that live within the formal notification are potentially

2204
06:01:24,000 --> 06:01:28,000
directly impacted by the site plan, which is the subject here.

2205
06:01:28,000 --> 06:01:34,000
So you'd have to be satisfied that she had a close that the individual has a close enough impact

2206
06:01:34,000 --> 06:01:38,000
to this based on what she has advised.

2207
06:01:38,000 --> 06:01:44,000
I would suggest the concern always that I think what we heard is a lot related to the zoning.

2208
06:01:44,000 --> 06:01:50,000
And so you would have to remember that what you are dealing with here is the site plan approval,

2209
06:01:50,000 --> 06:01:54,000
not the zoning which was decided by the court.

2210
06:01:54,000 --> 06:01:56,000
Thank you.

2211
06:01:56,000 --> 06:01:58,000
Thank you, Councillor Austin.

2212
06:01:58,000 --> 06:02:02,000
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I could ask just a clarification question,

2213
06:02:02,000 --> 06:02:06,000
just like in the same vein as Councillor Clarice.

2214
06:02:06,000 --> 06:02:12,000
Could you say what street you live on? I've just got Google pulled up here.

2215
06:02:12,000 --> 06:02:16,000
If we can't narrow the distance, we could do it this way.

2216
06:02:16,000 --> 06:02:22,000
I'm at 48 big bear loop in Porter's lake.

2217
06:02:22,000 --> 06:02:32,000
Big bear loop.

2218
06:02:32,000 --> 06:02:36,000
That's not even Porter's lake, that's...

2219
06:02:36,000 --> 06:02:42,000
That was a different big bear loop.

2220
06:02:42,000 --> 06:02:54,000
Thank you.

2221
06:02:54,000 --> 06:03:04,000
Site three here.

2222
06:03:04,000 --> 06:03:06,000
Anything else, Councillor Austin?

2223
06:03:06,000 --> 06:03:12,000
This is a tough position to be dropped in this chair.

2224
06:03:12,000 --> 06:03:16,000
It's deciding whether someone is affected and whether they can speak.

2225
06:03:16,000 --> 06:03:19,000
I'm just looking here at big bear loop.

2226
06:03:19,000 --> 06:03:26,000
It is a distance away, but it's also backs on to the swathaland that runs out that way.

2227
06:03:26,000 --> 06:03:34,000
I think if she was in interior subdivision street, like sandy lane, for example, then I'd say,

2228
06:03:34,000 --> 06:03:40,000
no, but she does kind of back on to the wilderness area here.

2229
06:03:40,000 --> 06:03:44,000
Okay, and I just want to remind me what the solicitor said.

2230
06:03:44,000 --> 06:03:46,000
This is not about the zoning, it's about the site plan.

2231
06:03:46,000 --> 06:03:52,000
I don't see any further questions of clarification.

2232
06:03:52,000 --> 06:04:08,000
So, would you like to hear from the speaker or not?

2233
06:04:08,000 --> 06:04:10,000
Yes, yes.

2234
06:04:10,000 --> 06:04:14,000
Okay, I see hands and heads nodding.

2235
06:04:14,000 --> 06:04:18,000
I'll take that as a affirmative.

2236
06:04:18,000 --> 06:04:21,000
Oh, I didn't.

2237
06:04:21,000 --> 06:04:23,000
There's some opposed.

2238
06:04:23,000 --> 06:04:27,000
Okay, so let's, uh, a vote?

2239
06:04:27,000 --> 06:04:28,000
Okay.

2240
06:04:28,000 --> 06:04:30,000
Show hands, all those in favor.

2241
06:04:30,000 --> 06:04:33,000
Please raise your hands.

2242
06:04:33,000 --> 06:04:34,000
Yes.

2243
06:04:34,000 --> 06:04:37,000
One, two, three, four, five, six.

2244
06:04:37,000 --> 06:04:40,000
Okay, and a post.

2245
06:04:40,000 --> 06:04:43,000
One, two, five.

2246
06:04:44,000 --> 06:04:51,000
So, I believe that that fails, and that it's in favor of hearing from the speaker.

2247
06:04:51,000 --> 06:04:56,000
Go ahead, the floor is yours for five minutes.

2248
06:04:56,000 --> 06:04:58,000
Hey, deputy mayor.

2249
06:04:58,000 --> 06:05:00,000
Good evening, everyone again.

2250
06:05:00,000 --> 06:05:01,000
My name is Lisa Garamese.

2251
06:05:01,000 --> 06:05:08,000
I'm a homeowner, mother, dog owner, veteran, public affairs professional, in resident of this community.

2252
06:05:08,000 --> 06:05:19,000
I want to begin by saying that I'm not opposed to development itself, but I understand that construction and demolition materials need to be managed, processed and disposed of somewhere.

2253
06:05:19,000 --> 06:05:24,000
But my concern is whether this type of facility should exist within our community.

2254
06:05:24,000 --> 06:05:28,000
My concern is whether this is the right location for it.

2255
06:05:28,000 --> 06:05:36,000
As council considers this application, I urge you to think beyond the immediate economic benefits and ask a more important question.

2256
06:05:36,000 --> 06:05:41,000
Is this proposal compatible with the existing residential community that surrounds it?

2257
06:05:41,000 --> 06:05:47,000
Residents choose the area because of its character, quality of life, and sense of community.

2258
06:05:47,000 --> 06:05:49,000
Facilities, I'm sorry.

2259
06:05:49,000 --> 06:05:57,000
Families walk their neighborhoods, children's play outdoors, and many of us have invested our life savings into our homes.

2260
06:05:57,000 --> 06:06:05,000
Our construction and demolition processing facility introduces industrial activity that raises legitimate concerns.

2261
06:06:05,000 --> 06:06:14,000
Regarding dust, air quality, noise, truck traffic, environmental impacts, and long-term property value issues.

2262
06:06:14,000 --> 06:06:23,000
While proponents, often point to mitigation measures, the reality is that mitigation does not eliminate the impacts in our area.

2263
06:06:23,000 --> 06:06:26,000
It only attempts to reduce them after the fact.

2264
06:06:27,000 --> 06:06:42,000
Residents should not be expected to bear the burden of living beside a facility that generates dust, heavy traffic, noise, and environmental concerns, as mentioned previously, simply because controls may be put in place.

2265
06:06:42,000 --> 06:06:45,000
The concerns being raised tonight are not hypothetical.

2266
06:06:45,000 --> 06:06:54,000
Public submissions in research regarding waste and processing facilities have consistently identified concerns relating to air pollution, respiratory health impacts,

2267
06:06:54,000 --> 06:07:01,000
groundwater contamination, odors, traffic, noise, pests, and overall quality of life issues.

2268
06:07:01,000 --> 06:07:12,000
These concerns deserve serious consideration, particularly when a facility such as this is proposed in close proximity to our wetlands as well as our subdivisions.

2269
06:07:13,000 --> 06:07:16,000
There is also the issue of property values.

2270
06:07:16,000 --> 06:07:25,000
Research has been published in the Journal of Real Estate Research found that residential properties located near landfill and waste facilities,

2271
06:07:25,000 --> 06:07:32,000
experienced negative impacts on property values ranging from approximately 5.5 to 7.3%.

2272
06:07:32,000 --> 06:07:41,000
Even in older and less expensive neighborhoods, impacts are three to four percent were observed, and I have the documentation here if you want it.

2273
06:07:41,000 --> 06:07:46,000
For many homeowners, that represents tens of thousands of dollars in lost equity.

2274
06:07:46,000 --> 06:07:49,000
More importantly, it represents uncertainty.

2275
06:07:49,000 --> 06:07:53,000
Buyers consider more than a house when making purchasing decisions.

2276
06:07:53,000 --> 06:07:56,000
They consider what surrounds it.

2277
06:07:56,000 --> 06:08:01,000
The perception influences marketability and marketability affects our value.

2278
06:08:01,000 --> 06:08:08,000
This proposal effectively asks residents to assume risks while others receive the benefits.

2279
06:08:08,000 --> 06:08:12,000
The applicant receives the operational and economic advantages.

2280
06:08:12,000 --> 06:08:20,000
Residents absorb the traffic, the noise, the dust, environmental concerns, and potential impacts on our property values.

2281
06:08:20,000 --> 06:08:25,000
I would also ask Council to consider the long-term implications of this decision.

2282
06:08:25,000 --> 06:08:32,000
Once a facility of this nature has been approved and established, it becomes extremely difficult to reverse that decision.

2283
06:08:33,000 --> 06:08:41,000
This decision will affect not only current residents, but our future generations of homeowners who choose to build their lives in this community.

2284
06:08:41,000 --> 06:08:47,000
Good planning is not simply about determining whether a development can be built or should be built in the area it is.

2285
06:08:47,000 --> 06:08:52,000
It is about determining whether it should be built in that particular location.

2286
06:08:52,000 --> 06:09:06,000
Tonight I respectfully ask Council to place the interest of residents first and reject the proposal or at minimum require a more comprehensive and independent review of potential health,

2287
06:09:06,000 --> 06:09:12,000
environment, traffic, and property value impacts before any approval is considered.

2288
06:09:12,000 --> 06:09:17,000
The question before Council is not whether construction and demolition materials need to be processed.

2289
06:09:17,000 --> 06:09:23,000
The question is whether this community is appropriate for a place to do it and I do not believe it is.

2290
06:09:23,000 --> 06:09:27,000
Thank you.

2291
06:09:27,000 --> 06:09:30,000
All right. Thank you.

2292
06:09:30,000 --> 06:09:33,000
I don't see any questions of clarification.

2293
06:09:33,000 --> 06:09:35,000
So.

2294
06:09:35,000 --> 06:09:38,000
Thank you.

2295
06:09:48,000 --> 06:09:49,000
Okay.

2296
06:09:51,000 --> 06:09:53,000
There's no, there's nobody else.

2297
06:09:53,000 --> 06:09:56,000
I just, it doesn't say here to call.

2298
06:09:56,000 --> 06:09:58,000
Just back in.

2299
06:09:58,000 --> 06:10:00,000
Okay. Thank you.

2300
06:10:00,000 --> 06:10:01,000
Okay.

2301
06:10:01,000 --> 06:10:03,000
So.

2302
06:10:03,000 --> 06:10:13,000
With that, I'll see if there's anyone else present who is affected by the decision differently than the general public who would like to request to speak.

2303
06:10:13,000 --> 06:10:15,000
All right.

2304
06:10:16,000 --> 06:10:17,000
Thank you.

2305
06:10:17,000 --> 06:10:18,000
Come on up.

2306
06:10:24,000 --> 06:10:31,000
Similar to the process we just went through please state your name your community and why you are affected differently.

2307
06:10:31,000 --> 06:10:33,000
Madam chair.

2308
06:10:33,000 --> 06:10:34,000
Councilors.

2309
06:10:34,000 --> 06:10:44,000
So my name is Deb day and in 2015 when we started this fight against this application we established the coalition for sake and healthy communities.

2310
06:10:44,000 --> 06:10:56,000
And I chaired that on behalf of all the residents and to this day have supported and represented them, including those within the 30 meters and those beyond the 30 meters.

2311
06:10:56,000 --> 06:11:07,000
My comments today are about the fencing that I would like to bring some perspective to.

2312
06:11:07,000 --> 06:11:08,000
Thank you.

2313
06:11:08,000 --> 06:11:11,000
Question from Councillor Cleary.

2314
06:11:12,000 --> 06:11:15,000
And if I can ask you as well, how close do you live to the site.

2315
06:11:15,000 --> 06:11:20,000
I live in mind though, so I'm across the water, but the.

2316
06:11:20,000 --> 06:11:26,000
The residents that I have represented are include those that are in within 30 meters.

2317
06:11:26,000 --> 06:11:32,000
No, I appreciate that I just thought the question was about how you personally are affected differently the general public.

2318
06:11:32,000 --> 06:11:40,000
Not as much as they would be for sure where I live in mind though, and my my representation here is on there behalf.

2319
06:11:40,000 --> 06:11:45,000
Thank you.

2320
06:11:45,000 --> 06:11:50,000
All right, I don't see any more questions of clarification.

2321
06:11:50,000 --> 06:11:52,000
Councillor Kent.

2322
06:11:52,000 --> 06:11:53,000
Thank you.

2323
06:11:53,000 --> 06:11:57,000
Madam Deputy Mayor, I have a question for the solicitor.

2324
06:11:57,000 --> 06:12:00,000
In a situation like this.

2325
06:12:00,000 --> 06:12:05,000
Do we have to have confirmation of that.

2326
06:12:05,000 --> 06:12:15,000
Right to represent, or is this person being evaluated as a singular person?

2327
06:12:15,000 --> 06:12:19,000
Generally, you would want some confirmation.

2328
06:12:19,000 --> 06:12:20,000
You have to be satisfied.

2329
06:12:20,000 --> 06:12:21,000
Yeah.

2330
06:12:21,000 --> 06:12:24,000
You can be satisfied on the individuals say so or otherwise.

2331
06:12:24,000 --> 06:12:30,000
But realistically, it is the individuals who themselves are impacted that have the opportunity to speak.

2332
06:12:30,000 --> 06:12:37,000
This is this is an appeal between for individuals or pairs and the respondent.

2333
06:12:37,000 --> 06:12:40,000
It's it's not a public hearing.

2334
06:12:40,000 --> 06:12:49,000
So there really should be some specific impact that individuals have, but I would note I believe that council did allow.

2335
06:12:49,000 --> 06:12:56,000
This individual to speak at the last appeal in the circumstances and you may or may not be guided by that.

2336
06:12:56,000 --> 06:12:59,000
Thank you.

2337
06:13:00,000 --> 06:13:05,000
Okay, so what are your wishes council?

2338
06:13:05,000 --> 06:13:07,000
Okay, we'll take some votes here.

2339
06:13:07,000 --> 06:13:09,000
Question all those in favour.

2340
06:13:09,000 --> 06:13:15,000
Please raise your hand.

2341
06:13:15,000 --> 06:13:16,000
Six.

2342
06:13:16,000 --> 06:13:18,000
All those opposed.

2343
06:13:18,000 --> 06:13:20,000
Please raise your hand.

2344
06:13:29,000 --> 06:13:30,000
Okay, thank you.

2345
06:13:30,000 --> 06:13:35,000
We'll go to the next then that fails.

2346
06:13:35,000 --> 06:13:42,000
Is there anyone else who would like to speak at the back there please?

2347
06:13:42,000 --> 06:13:43,000
Oh, no.

2348
06:13:43,000 --> 06:13:48,000
Okay, gentlemen, in the blue plaid shirt.

2349
06:13:48,000 --> 06:13:54,000
Again, please tell us your name, your community, and why you are affected differently than the general public.

2350
06:13:55,000 --> 06:13:56,000
Good evening, councillors.

2351
06:13:56,000 --> 06:13:58,000
My name is Mike Thomas.

2352
06:13:58,000 --> 06:14:02,000
I've spoke at every hearing that we've held.

2353
06:14:02,000 --> 06:14:06,000
I live approximately 500 meters from this site.

2354
06:14:06,000 --> 06:14:10,000
I can honestly say I am not impacted differently than anybody else.

2355
06:14:10,000 --> 06:14:14,000
I live 500 meters from there and I'm impacted exactly the same.

2356
06:14:14,000 --> 06:14:16,000
My comments will be brief.

2357
06:14:16,000 --> 06:14:17,000
Forgive me.

2358
06:14:17,000 --> 06:14:19,000
I'm going through some health issues.

2359
06:14:19,000 --> 06:14:25,000
I'm very tired and to be honest with you, I wasn't going to speak tonight, but I will represent.

2360
06:14:25,000 --> 06:14:30,000
I think what this day was was going to say.

2361
06:14:30,000 --> 06:14:33,000
I think it's very important that that happened.

2362
06:14:33,000 --> 06:14:34,000
All right.

2363
06:14:34,000 --> 06:14:35,000
Thank you.

2364
06:14:35,000 --> 06:14:38,000
Question of clarification from Councillor Austin.

2365
06:14:38,000 --> 06:14:40,000
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

2366
06:14:40,000 --> 06:14:44,000
Could even if you don't know our comfortable sharing your street address.

2367
06:14:44,000 --> 06:14:46,000
Could you just tell me what street you live on?

2368
06:14:46,000 --> 06:14:49,000
On the number 7, 360, or 9 highway 7.

2369
06:14:49,000 --> 06:14:50,000
Okay.

2370
06:14:50,000 --> 06:14:56,000
I would be probably the second host closest to it.

2371
06:14:56,000 --> 06:15:00,000
And you can definitely, I mean, we definitely serve in the second house.

2372
06:15:00,000 --> 06:15:24,000
Thank you. Thank you. I don't see any other questions of clarification. So council, what are your wishes? All those in favour? Please arrange your hand. Okay, that passes. Okay, so the floor is yours. There you go. You'll have five minutes, Sam, do again.

2373
06:15:30,000 --> 06:15:44,000
Okay, so sir, we're just going to take a short break.

2374
06:16:00,000 --> 06:16:10,000
Thank you.

2375
06:16:30,000 --> 06:16:40,000
Thank you.

2376
06:17:00,000 --> 06:17:10,000
Thank you.

2377
06:17:30,000 --> 06:17:40,000
Thank you.

2378
06:18:00,000 --> 06:18:26,000
Thank you.

2379
06:18:26,000 --> 06:18:38,000
There we go.

2380
06:18:38,000 --> 06:18:42,000
And I'm going to ask if you could please repeat your name in your community.

2381
06:18:42,000 --> 06:18:46,000
And then you'll be given five minutes to speak. And the court will let you know when your time is up.

2382
06:18:46,000 --> 06:18:51,000
And please keep your remarks respectful and direct to the chair. The floor is yours.

2383
06:18:51,000 --> 06:18:59,000
Yeah, I sure will. Through the deputy to mayor to the council. I would like to thank you once again for this opportunity to speak.

2384
06:18:59,000 --> 06:19:07,000
I didn't come normally very well prepared to be honest because I had to be honest with you. I really hadn't planned on speaking.

2385
06:19:07,000 --> 06:19:26,000
My family and I first got involved in this, you know, this fight 11 years ago. It's been 11 years long week in a May. We were driving back from our cottage and we saw the sign. So, you know, we've been committed, you know, to this this fight for a long, long, long time.

2386
06:19:26,000 --> 06:19:39,000
We put a lot of effort into it. The young fellow that spoke earlier, Mr. Thomas happens to be my son. He was 15 years old when this fight started he went into environmental sciences because of this this fight.

2387
06:19:39,000 --> 06:19:45,000
This fight, that's that's an impact. That's a that's a big deal, right.

2388
06:19:45,000 --> 06:19:53,000
As you go forward to vote, I think I'd like you guys to remember some things.

2389
06:19:54,000 --> 06:20:06,000
When this all started, we, of course, we went through the rezoning application. It has no bearing on this, I guess, but I think what we have to remember here is a staff report that was done by one of your senior planners, the Elangel.

2390
06:20:06,000 --> 06:20:19,000
Ultimately, that was, in fact, overturned at the UARB. But it wasn't overturned because of all the dangers she identified. You know, though, they still exist.

2391
06:20:19,000 --> 06:20:27,000
And whether it has an influence on your decision or not, I think you should probably at some point take a look at that.

2392
06:20:27,000 --> 06:20:32,000
Because of report we saw it tonight from the planners was.

2393
06:20:32,000 --> 06:20:37,000
Well, of course, it was very different. It's for a development permit.

2394
06:20:37,000 --> 06:20:46,000
But all those issues that HRM has identified have not gone away, right? They didn't go away because the UARB said they did.

2395
06:20:46,000 --> 06:20:53,000
So let's think about that. Let's think about, you know, the thousands of people in our communities.

2396
06:20:54,000 --> 06:21:04,000
I was thinking about this the other day. I found that this hearing was happening Friday. So, you know, I said in just thinking about these past 11, 11 years.

2397
06:21:04,000 --> 06:21:14,000
I've never been involved in anything like this, but I suspect, you know, as people come before you as council, public fights like this or, you know, public issues.

2398
06:21:14,000 --> 06:21:19,000
Normally communities are divided, right? You'll 50, 40, 30, whatever.

2399
06:21:19,000 --> 06:21:29,000
In this case, in all of the meetings we've been as a coalition and everything, not one person from our community has stood up and said,

2400
06:21:29,000 --> 06:21:36,000
Damn it, I want that ear. I need that ear. You know, we want that ear. Nobody wants that there.

2401
06:21:37,000 --> 06:21:54,000
Well, that being said, we have rules. I know. I was a commercial eating guy for many, many years. I worked all over Canada. I contracted for the government in 2015 years. I took care of every, every eating appliance that they had commercial ones, big ones in the hospitals.

2402
06:21:54,000 --> 06:22:05,000
I had a lot of responsibility there. And I had a set of rules that I had to follow. A coat. And I followed it until it didn't make sense.

2403
06:22:07,000 --> 06:22:16,000
Or it was dangerous or something was wrong. And it happens, believe me, in code books. You guys have a set of rules to follow.

2404
06:22:16,000 --> 06:22:20,000
The proponent has a set of rules to follow.

2405
06:22:20,000 --> 06:22:33,000
The reality is the rules. I don't believe we're going to, you know, protect the site. I believe that if you vote yes, you know, the community is going to be severely impacted.

2406
06:22:33,000 --> 06:22:44,000
I've also, as I said, have owned my business. If I was the company for a council for something like this and it's, you know, it's a big deal as a business man.

2407
06:22:44,000 --> 06:22:52,000
And after the last time that was, you know, turned down mostly because the screening, I think I probably would have come back with something a little more acceptable.

2408
06:22:52,000 --> 06:22:58,000
So that's 63 centimeters. Folks, you're voting on this tonight, I suppose.

2409
06:22:58,000 --> 06:23:02,000
And really, you're just voting on 63 centimeters.

2410
06:23:02,000 --> 06:23:09,000
That's, that's the only thing that's changed. That's not going to help us, guys. Really, it's, it's not.

2411
06:23:09,000 --> 06:23:12,000
I was telling, I got 33 seconds. Okay.

2412
06:23:12,000 --> 06:23:17,000
And all likely this will be the last time I speak in front of you.

2413
06:23:18,000 --> 06:23:23,000
As you vote, I would like you to think about our communities.

2414
06:23:23,000 --> 06:23:28,000
I maybe you can think about your own community. I don't where you guys live, but maybe you live in a quiet little street.

2415
06:23:28,000 --> 06:23:33,000
Would you want this in your, in your backyard? Come on. Now, I don't think you would.

2416
06:23:33,000 --> 06:23:39,000
Anyway, we've put up the good fight as a community. We will continue to put up the good fight.

2417
06:23:39,000 --> 06:23:50,000
And all I can do is, if you guys want to leave a legacy, don't leave a bag on. Thank you.

2418
06:23:50,000 --> 06:23:55,000
All right. Thank you very much.

2419
06:23:55,000 --> 06:24:04,000
Are there any,

2420
06:24:04,000 --> 06:24:08,000
Sir, there is a question, Councillor Kent.

2421
06:24:08,000 --> 06:24:12,000
Thank you. I'm going to break through a little bit and that it's not so much a question.

2422
06:24:12,000 --> 06:24:21,000
It's a, it's a, it's a thank you for being in here and being capable and brave enough to come up tonight.

2423
06:24:21,000 --> 06:24:28,000
I just want to express that because we need people to come into this in the session and you can be proud of you.

2424
06:24:28,000 --> 06:24:33,000
Thank you, Councillor Kent, I think I appreciate your sentiments, but we need to stay to the questions of clarification.

2425
06:24:33,000 --> 06:24:38,000
Thank you very much.

2426
06:24:38,000 --> 06:24:51,000
Is there anyone else present who is affected by the decision differently than the general public who would like to request to speak?

2427
06:24:51,000 --> 06:24:54,000
I see. Yes.

2428
06:24:54,000 --> 06:24:57,000
Please come on up.

2429
06:24:57,000 --> 06:25:05,000
Again, start by telling us your name, your community and why you're affected differently than the general public.

2430
06:25:05,000 --> 06:25:07,000
Is it okay for two co presenters?

2431
06:25:07,000 --> 06:25:09,000
Yep. Okay. That's great.

2432
06:25:09,000 --> 06:25:13,000
So I see we have a co presenter there with you. So both of your names, please.

2433
06:25:13,000 --> 06:25:17,000
I'm Amy Gunderson and this is Paul Norwich.

2434
06:25:17,000 --> 06:25:26,000
And I'm here to speak on behalf of nature of Jones and nature of subdivision, which is directly adjacent to this development proposed development.

2435
06:25:26,000 --> 06:25:41,000
I'm also here to speak on behalf of myself as well as I live within a kilometer radius from this proposed site.

2436
06:25:41,000 --> 06:25:43,000
Thank you, Councillor Clarit.

2437
06:25:43,000 --> 06:25:48,000
Thank you, Deputy Mayor. So just for clarification, so you live a kilometer away, personally.

2438
06:25:48,000 --> 06:25:49,000
Yeah.

2439
06:25:49,000 --> 06:25:51,000
What was the other thing you said?

2440
06:25:51,000 --> 06:25:56,000
In nature of subdivision, we on the development directly behind adjacent to this property.

2441
06:25:56,000 --> 06:25:58,000
You personally on that.

2442
06:25:58,000 --> 06:25:59,000
Paul Norwich.

2443
06:25:59,000 --> 06:26:00,000
Okay.

2444
06:26:00,000 --> 06:26:03,000
And it is a residential service.

2445
06:26:03,000 --> 06:26:04,000
Yes.

2446
06:26:04,000 --> 06:26:05,000
Okay.

2447
06:26:05,000 --> 06:26:09,000
It's an eight phase 200 plus building.

2448
06:26:09,000 --> 06:26:16,000
In 2013, it's a $200 million development going in there.

2449
06:26:16,000 --> 06:26:24,000
Over the next 25 years and we border right on the proposed development there.

2450
06:26:24,000 --> 06:26:27,000
So you're literally your properties of but hey, that's property.

2451
06:26:27,000 --> 06:26:28,000
Yep.

2452
06:26:28,000 --> 06:26:30,000
Okay. Thank you.

2453
06:26:30,000 --> 06:26:34,000
Thank you. Councillor Austin.

2454
06:26:34,000 --> 06:26:36,000
Just the nature homes.

2455
06:26:36,000 --> 06:26:38,000
Is that sugarwood?

2456
06:26:38,000 --> 06:26:40,000
Yeah.

2457
06:26:40,000 --> 06:26:43,000
Okay. Thank you.

2458
06:26:43,000 --> 06:26:44,000
Thank you.

2459
06:26:44,000 --> 06:26:47,000
Councillor, what are your wishes?

2460
06:26:47,000 --> 06:26:49,000
All those in favor.

2461
06:26:49,000 --> 06:26:54,000
Please raise your hands.

2462
06:26:54,000 --> 06:26:57,000
Okay.

2463
06:26:57,000 --> 06:26:59,000
Please proceed.

2464
06:26:59,000 --> 06:27:05,000
Is the community that when completed will have roughly 200 building lots for single family dwellings?

2465
06:27:05,000 --> 06:27:11,000
80% of the 215 hectare community is dedicated to green space, parkland and recreational space.

2466
06:27:11,000 --> 06:27:13,000
Design and approved by HRM.

2467
06:27:13,000 --> 06:27:25,000
The C&D site proposal has brought about a subdivision full of extremely worried homeowners and clients who have invested in nature edge that should the site be approved are concerned that property values will decrease.

2468
06:27:25,000 --> 06:27:32,000
Potentially sale opportunities will be diminished and overall quality of life will be negatively impacted by noise pollution alone.

2469
06:27:32,000 --> 06:27:39,000
The mere idea of a C&D facility being constructed has directly impacted home sales on several occasions during negotiations with clients.

2470
06:27:39,000 --> 06:27:46,000
They ultimately chose to walk away and purchase homes elsewhere because the potential facility being so close to the proximity of nature edge.

2471
06:27:46,000 --> 06:27:57,000
It would not be unreasonable to assume that there will be future lost opportunities for sales of homes in this surrounding area given the community social networking and controversy over this proposed facility.

2472
06:27:57,000 --> 06:28:01,000
Celebrity of homes in nature edge will undoubtedly be hindered or worse.

2473
06:28:01,000 --> 06:28:05,000
It could stop future phasing completely should this be approved.

2474
06:28:05,000 --> 06:28:16,000
In 2008, there was a large force fire that caused extensive damage to nature edge in surrounding land, a large portion of the softwood trees in our area were burned, leaving the land bearing from vegetation.

2475
06:28:16,000 --> 06:28:21,000
The forces starting to regenerate, however, the trees that are growing in place of the softwoods are deciduous trees.

2476
06:28:21,000 --> 06:28:29,000
While the regeneration is happening very slowly, the deciduous trees will offer no visual buffer from the proposed site from most of the year.

2477
06:28:30,000 --> 06:28:43,000
Another concern for us is the capability or accountability of key and management being able to fully mitigate the physical noise pollution that the C&D facility would generate as processing will be happening at this site.

2478
06:28:43,000 --> 06:28:48,000
They have said there would be voters, excavators, shares, dump trucks and forecliffs at the facility.

2479
06:28:48,000 --> 06:28:58,000
We'd be naive to believe that the noise of all this heavy equipment operating would be minimized to a level that would not affect the overall health and enjoyment of families in the neighboring homes.

2480
06:28:58,000 --> 06:29:01,000
Noise and dust travel far, that's indisputable.

2481
06:29:01,000 --> 06:29:03,000
We hear it based on home construction.

2482
06:29:03,000 --> 06:29:08,000
We know from first-hand experience, the engine noise, the dumping noise, these kinds of heavy equipment can generate.

2483
06:29:08,000 --> 06:29:09,000
It's very loud.

2484
06:29:09,000 --> 06:29:13,000
It would be impossible to mitigate the noise that would not affect the neighboring properties.

2485
06:29:13,000 --> 06:29:16,000
The noise we produce during construction is limited and temporary.

2486
06:29:16,000 --> 06:29:18,000
The C&D site is forever.

2487
06:29:18,000 --> 06:29:19,000
I just want to let that sink in.

2488
06:29:19,000 --> 06:29:20,000
It is forever.

2489
06:29:20,000 --> 06:29:26,000
It's not reasonable or fair to subject all residential communities to a lifetime of this noise annoyance.

2490
06:29:27,000 --> 06:29:31,000
Phase three of eight in each ridge is at an elevation of approximately 80 meters.

2491
06:29:31,000 --> 06:29:35,000
And the land where the facility would go is an elevation of approximately 70 meters.

2492
06:29:35,000 --> 06:29:40,000
With no significant hills or trees to act as a visual or noise buffer in between.

2493
06:29:40,000 --> 06:29:47,000
Furthermore, nature is only 600 meters away from the property to property boundary between our community and where the site would be built.

2494
06:29:47,000 --> 06:29:53,000
We flew a drone from the highest point in phase three to a height that would mimic someone standing in the second level of a home.

2495
06:29:53,000 --> 06:29:56,000
Looking out the window to the direction of the proposed site.

2496
06:29:56,000 --> 06:30:00,000
Without a doubt, given the lack of hills or trees as a buffer, a pile of can...

2497
06:30:00,000 --> 06:30:18,000
Section 3, 15 feet high would be clearly visible. We also wanted to bring up the risk of spontaneous combustion. There was an incident down in Kentville in 2016. The fire burn for several days, days which led to environment candidate issuing an air quality warning for King's County.

2498
06:30:18,000 --> 06:30:31,000
The closest fire station to this proposed facility is in Lake Echo approximately 3 to 4 kilometers away. This station is volunteer only. Therefore, not staff 24-7. The response times would undoubtedly be affected.

2499
06:30:31,000 --> 06:30:44,000
We are extremely concerned about this proposal and the potential of repercussions should it be allowed to move forward. Nature reaches quiet and serene vices would be ruined, and health of its residents would be in jeopardy. No one would want to live next door to this.

2500
06:30:44,000 --> 06:30:49,000
Absolutely everything is at stake for my family and nature rich to the C&D facility be approved.

2501
06:30:49,000 --> 06:30:55,000
A approval would without question be the demise of our subdivision, our construction business and our livelihoods.

2502
06:30:55,000 --> 06:31:02,000
Our company employees, local tradespeople, we utilize local suppliers for all of our bills. The financial impact would be felt by all of them.

2503
06:31:02,000 --> 06:31:12,000
For the sake of our collective community and for nature, just future, and as a concerned resident, please say no to this proposal. This facility has absolutely no place being constructed in a residential area.

2504
06:31:12,000 --> 06:31:15,000
Thank you again.

2505
06:31:15,000 --> 06:31:18,000
All right. Thank you, Amy.

2506
06:31:18,000 --> 06:31:27,000
I do not see any questions of clarification, so thank you very much.

2507
06:31:27,000 --> 06:31:40,000
I will ask again, is there anyone present who is affected by the decision differently than the general public who would like to request to speak?

2508
06:31:40,000 --> 06:31:53,000
Are there any other speakers yet? All right. Hello there. Please come to the front.

2509
06:31:53,000 --> 06:32:04,000
Welcome. Just a reminder to start by telling council your name, your community, and why you are affected differently.

2510
06:32:04,000 --> 06:32:12,000
My name is Linda Mosier. I, the last toast before you get to the proposed site.

2511
06:32:12,000 --> 06:32:18,000
3629, number 7 hardway.

2512
06:32:18,000 --> 06:32:29,000
And I do whatever happens at this site does represent where I live.

2513
06:32:29,000 --> 06:32:34,000
Okay. So, any questions of clarification here?

2514
06:32:34,000 --> 06:32:42,000
Seeing none. What are your wishes council? All those in favor? Please raise your hand.

2515
06:32:42,000 --> 06:32:47,000
Okay. So that passes. So please proceed. You have five minutes.

2516
06:32:47,000 --> 06:32:49,000
Thank you.

2517
06:32:50,000 --> 06:33:00,000
Water and soil contamination. C&D processing transfer sites do preserve pose severe risk to the environment.

2518
06:33:00,000 --> 06:33:17,000
When rain water filters through the piles of debris, it creates toxic leakage that drains into the local groundwater wetlands and nearby water courses through the fractured rocks into our wells.

2519
06:33:17,000 --> 06:33:27,000
It causes us every time we get our water tested to be safe. Should we get our water tested once a year? twice a year.

2520
06:33:27,000 --> 06:33:38,000
By the time our water detects any toxins from the proposed C&D processing transfer site, it's too late. It's already there.

2521
06:33:38,000 --> 06:33:50,000
We have nothing if we don't have safe drinking water. We can't sell our homes. No one would like to live in a community that doesn't have safe drinking water.

2522
06:33:50,000 --> 06:33:59,000
What will happen to our peaceful community even if there is a chance that our drinking water gets contaminated.

2523
06:33:59,000 --> 06:34:06,000
That's a very high risk for our two communities to not want to take.

2524
06:34:06,000 --> 06:34:14,000
You cannot guarantee that our drinking water will not be contaminated.

2525
06:34:14,000 --> 06:34:26,000
Even with all the precautions at the C&D site, you can still not guarantee that our drinking water won't be contaminated.

2526
06:34:26,000 --> 06:34:40,000
We are the ones that has every day of everything to lose. This C&D site does not belong in the middle of two communities which are very close.

2527
06:34:40,000 --> 06:34:45,000
It belongs in an industrial park.

2528
06:34:45,000 --> 06:34:57,000
Excessive truck traffic, C&D, processing transfer sites has a continuous stream of heavy dump trucks, transfer trailers, and even cars.

2529
06:34:57,000 --> 06:35:12,000
Ross Road in three days, a few year ago, the average number of trucks transferred trucks, trailers and cars per day that entered the C&D site was 165 to 170.

2530
06:35:12,000 --> 06:35:20,000
Last year one day, 178 trucks transferred trailers cars into the C&D site.

2531
06:35:20,000 --> 06:35:27,000
I average 70 trucks, transport trailers and cars for the proposed C&D site.

2532
06:35:27,000 --> 06:35:42,000
70 trucks per day open in eight hours. That's an average of 8.75 trucks per hour times two both ways 17.5 trucks per hour.

2533
06:35:42,000 --> 06:35:52,000
That's an average 4.4 trucks per half hour both ways 8.8 trucks in a half hour.

2534
06:35:52,000 --> 06:36:03,000
On an average 2.2 trucks every 15 minutes times two both ways that's 4.4 trucks every 15 minutes.

2535
06:36:03,000 --> 06:36:09,000
I count both ways because the trucks make two trips through our community.

2536
06:36:09,000 --> 06:36:17,000
This causes dangerous bottlenecks. I have seen this on Ross Road C&D site.

2537
06:36:17,000 --> 06:36:39,000
This jeopardizes the safety of our local residents, pedestrians, and cyclists, where we have many, many, then we have many that go through our community and most important to school buses from five schools.

2538
06:36:39,000 --> 06:36:59,000
Air quality and toxic dust pollution airborne toxins and dust from construction and demolition processing and transfer sites can travel anywhere from a few hundred feet to several kilometers, depending on particle size and wind conditions.

2539
06:36:59,000 --> 06:37:26,000
Particles remain suspended and pose severe offsite health risk. The dust is invisible to the human eye, but can cause a serious health hazard exposure to the inhaled salific dust, which is fragmented can lead to salific ulcers lung cancer and COPD.

2540
06:37:26,000 --> 06:37:33,000
Salific a dust highly hazardous dust released during concrete cutting and masonry.

2541
06:37:33,000 --> 06:37:50,000
A specific microscopic fibers can stay suspended for 24 to 48 hours or longer, traveling significant distance on the wind.

2542
06:37:50,000 --> 06:37:53,000
Exhaust emissions from heavy.

2543
06:37:53,000 --> 06:38:00,000
I just want to note that your time may time this up if you just want to finish your sentence.

2544
06:38:00,000 --> 06:38:12,000
Emissions from heavy machinery, ads, pollutants and fine black carbon in the immediate and surrounding areas.

2545
06:38:12,000 --> 06:38:15,000
Thank you very much.

2546
06:38:15,000 --> 06:38:20,000
Do you not see any questions of clarification?

2547
06:38:20,000 --> 06:38:25,000
So with that I'll say thank you very much.

2548
06:38:25,000 --> 06:38:39,000
Okay, I'll ask again, is there anyone else present who is affected by the decision differently than the general public who would like to request to speak?

2549
06:38:39,000 --> 06:38:43,000
Okay, I do not see any other speakers.

2550
06:38:43,000 --> 06:38:49,000
I will now invite the applicant respondent to present their case to council.

2551
06:38:49,000 --> 06:38:55,000
We have Jennifer saying to represent the applicant respondent key and management limited.

2552
06:38:55,000 --> 06:39:00,000
Jennifer please come to the microphone and you have 10 minutes to speak.

2553
06:39:00,000 --> 06:39:05,000
The clerk will note when you have 30 seconds remaining.

2554
06:39:05,000 --> 06:39:08,000
The floor is yours.

2555
06:39:08,000 --> 06:39:12,000
There's a spill here. Can I just get this wiped up?

2556
06:39:38,000 --> 06:39:46,000
Thank you deputy mayor and council.

2557
06:39:46,000 --> 06:39:50,000
As noted, I am here, my name is Jennifer Soling, I'm here representing the applicant.

2558
06:39:50,000 --> 06:39:55,000
Since our last appeal hearing, we did take another site visit with staff.

2559
06:39:55,000 --> 06:40:02,000
We had license landscape architect to a site visit and analyze the vegetation and we had engineers on site.

2560
06:40:02,000 --> 06:40:06,000
They've all confirmed that there is significant vegetation on the property.

2561
06:40:06,000 --> 06:40:12,000
As a comparison, I'd like to show you.

2562
06:40:12,000 --> 06:40:16,000
Is it on screen?

2563
06:40:16,000 --> 06:40:20,000
There we go.

2564
06:40:20,000 --> 06:40:28,000
So I wanted to compare it to Ross Road because Ross Road went through a plan amendment a rezoning and a site plan approval to expand its operation back in 2019.

2565
06:40:28,000 --> 06:40:32,000
So this is a zoning map from the staff report.

2566
06:40:33,000 --> 06:40:47,000
C&D operation is the areas shown in gray here and as you can see there are residential properties on the other side of Ross Road from the operation above and below and subdivisions very nearby.

2567
06:40:47,000 --> 06:40:51,000
This is a photo of the main entrance to the Ross Road C&D operation.

2568
06:40:51,000 --> 06:40:54,000
You can see some landscaping on the left or some trees.

2569
06:40:54,000 --> 06:40:56,000
I should say existing vegetation.

2570
06:40:56,000 --> 06:40:58,000
You can see the fence.

2571
06:40:58,000 --> 06:41:09,000
That is the it's about six feet high it is a see through transparent chain link fence and you can see there's some small plantings there but certainly not significant screening.

2572
06:41:09,000 --> 06:41:24,000
And then the fence comes closer to the road here and goes along the front here and you can see again there's just some thin row of trees here and the chain link fence and some grass.

2573
06:41:24,000 --> 06:41:30,000
The second entrance to Ross Road C&D operation it's further down you can see a house here on the left across the road.

2574
06:41:30,000 --> 06:41:40,000
You can see the how deep the landscaping or the existing vegetation is here it's not the third is deep as ours is proposed to be.

2575
06:41:40,000 --> 06:41:48,000
And this is the fence along the side of the secondary entrance and you can see there's no screening there whatsoever.

2576
06:41:48,000 --> 06:42:01,000
This photo is taken from across this is a residential driveway and you can see a house here on the left this is just a view of part of that site and this the trees and you can see the structures in behind.

2577
06:42:01,000 --> 06:42:07,000
And this is from that same location looking down Ross Road the entrance is down here at the right.

2578
06:42:07,000 --> 06:42:16,000
And again just giving you an idea of another C&D operation that had to go through a similar site plan approval process.

2579
06:42:17,000 --> 06:42:39,000
Now this is a photo you've seen number of these today this one this shows the zone line so the red dash line is a zone line the C&D operation would be below the line above the line is still the same property it extends quite a ways up and you'll see that there are areas of large trees and areas of regeneration.

2580
06:42:39,000 --> 06:42:57,000
This is looking east at the zone line again the wet land that people have been talking about is here up above the line that is not proposed to be altered in any way the zone line is quite a ways down below and the C&D operation would be below the line if you look at the cars here on the edge of the road the highway.

2581
06:42:57,000 --> 06:43:07,000
And you look closely you can see the trees are actually taller than cars and this is some of the original growth here that didn't burn along a frontage.

2582
06:43:09,000 --> 06:43:20,000
There are notes on the landscaping plan that you may or may not have been able to read in your set freeport so I'm just going to read them to you so the area consists of two types of wooded area.

2583
06:43:20,000 --> 06:43:35,000
Existing wooded area is the area not burned in the 2008 forest fire and includes a variety of native tree species including white birch, large and white spruce dense forest areas include trees with a height of 10 meters, 33 feet and higher in some areas.

2584
06:43:35,000 --> 06:43:46,000
The other area of growth is the existing regenerating woodland is the area that burned in the 2008 forest fire and includes a variety of native species as noted above.

2585
06:43:47,000 --> 06:43:56,000
After an initial period of reestablishment the vegetation is growing vigorously, deciduous trees have reached a height of 2 meters 6.6 feet and higher.

2586
06:43:57,000 --> 06:44:13,000
Now this is a landscaping plan which we our landscape architect prepared so the dark green is that the wooded area that didn't burn the regeneration area is the light green and we provided these cross sections I'm happy to go through those in more detail.

2587
06:44:14,000 --> 06:44:21,000
I thought I had five minutes I'm not sure if I have five or ten but it's going to take some time so I'd like to just keep going and if you want me to walk you through those I will.

2588
06:44:21,000 --> 06:44:43,000
And I guess I think I wanted to say is in recent years in 2023 the Department of Environment actually adopted new rules for C&D operations so there's actually a new set of rules where they are the body responsible to analyze and regulate C&D.

2589
06:44:43,000 --> 06:44:58,000
In C&D operations and their impacts on wetlands and water courses so we will be subjected to those in addition to the licensing by law which is quite extensive and great alteration permits and construction permits so that is all yet to come.

2590
06:45:00,000 --> 06:45:16,000
And I guess I would also, I think most of you know, but the tonight is not about whether a C&D site should go there. That decisions are even made through the rezoning and the board decision. Tonight is about the site plan approval criteria. We meet those criteria.

2591
06:45:16,000 --> 06:45:21,000
This is more than just an increase in the height of the fence.

2592
06:45:21,000 --> 06:45:29,000
I will, where's the time? I will walk you through some of these. So this cross section, this first one here.

2593
06:45:29,000 --> 06:45:38,000
The right hand side is the property boundary. So the, the site plan approval says screening from the property boundary or the adjacent property. So the right hand side.

2594
06:45:38,000 --> 06:45:49,000
So this is the existing trees that didn't burn. So that's a thick, thick green dark green here. Then you get into the regeneration area and slopes down to the pond and then up.

2595
06:45:49,000 --> 06:45:57,000
And then you get to the zone line. So this line on the left is the zone line right here. And so the operation is still even within that.

2596
06:45:58,000 --> 06:46:01,000
And if you look closely, there's a person standing on the right.

2597
06:46:01,000 --> 06:46:23,000
And the red, there's a red dashed line, which is the line of vision when a person standing on the property line, what they see. The line of vision goes up and you can see it goes, it would basically you're seeing the trees. You wouldn't see the fence, which is all the way over here on the left inside the zone line, which is the, the jersey barrier and the fence and the landscaping.

2598
06:46:23,000 --> 06:46:36,000
This is the second one here. This is the property line on the left. So this is the farthest property line. Again, the regeneration forest and then some of the older forest where it goes through here.

2599
06:46:36,000 --> 06:46:47,000
And then you get, it slopes up and then you get to the zone line and then inside that is the fence, the eight foot high fence and there's lands, landscaping in front of that as well.

2600
06:46:47,000 --> 06:46:55,000
So again, if a person is standing over here on the left on the property line, they will not be able to see the operation inside the zone line.

2601
06:46:55,000 --> 06:47:11,000
So the next one, this shows the, from the front where the street is and then all the way to the back line, I'm going to give you a close up of that. So here is a highway number seven, there's a car, there's a person, the ditch goes down.

2602
06:47:11,000 --> 06:47:23,000
Then you've got the growth that we saw along the highway there. Then this is the proposed landscape berm. So it's not just a taller fence. It's a berm with landscaping on top.

2603
06:47:23,000 --> 06:47:33,000
Then down and we have the fence here that's eight feet high that is screen. It's not a clear chain link and then the operation is beyond that.

2604
06:47:33,000 --> 06:47:41,000
If you're standing at the back on the, what was used to be all provincial land in the back there, this was a person's height.

2605
06:47:41,000 --> 06:47:58,000
Again, looking through the older growth force that didn't burn, your line of sight goes up and you get to hear this is the, again, the fence, which is not visible from that person standing there and then you get inside there and then.

2606
06:47:58,000 --> 06:48:07,000
But potentially this is the maximum stockpile could be, which it likely wouldn't even be that. So just in comparison houses are taller than are allowed to go taller than the stockpiles.

2607
06:48:07,000 --> 06:48:09,000
So.

2608
06:48:09,000 --> 06:48:20,000
We're asking you to please deny the appeal, thereby approve the site plan, and I am here to answer any questions.

2609
06:48:20,000 --> 06:48:31,000
All right, thank you very much. Jennifer, um, such over. Okay, we have some questions for you starting with counselor Kent.

2610
06:48:31,000 --> 06:48:42,000
Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor. I just have a couple of questions for you related to the site visit was staff. When was that done.

2611
06:48:42,000 --> 06:48:52,000
That was done shortly a few, a month or two after our last hearing, which was a year ago, so it would have been in the fall of 2025.

2612
06:48:52,000 --> 06:49:00,000
Okay, and the force the force data around the height of the trees and the vegetation stuff when was that data collected.

2613
06:49:00,000 --> 06:49:12,000
That would be representing here. Also a bit around the same time. It was in preparation for our revised plan, which I believe staff said was submitted in September, September of 2025. That was two months after the last.

2614
06:49:12,000 --> 06:49:13,000
Yeah.

2615
06:49:13,000 --> 06:49:16,000
Thank you.

2616
06:49:16,000 --> 06:49:19,000
Thank you, next counselor Austin.

2617
06:49:19,000 --> 06:49:28,000
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I wanted to ask about the water course because I did have the chance, you know, based on.

2618
06:49:28,000 --> 06:49:33,000
The speakers to take a look back through old Google Earth data.

2619
06:49:33,000 --> 06:49:44,000
And I don't know if the beavers have damned it up, but it is definitely grown in size quite considerably from the images in 2025 compared to 2022.

2620
06:49:44,000 --> 06:49:57,000
I'm just wondering, you know, the water course setback piece. How does the enlarged size of that wetland affect the project and how was that calculated in your.

2621
06:49:57,000 --> 06:50:00,000
submission.

2622
06:50:00,000 --> 06:50:03,000
Thank you through you, Madam Chair.

2623
06:50:03,000 --> 06:50:12,000
We had surveyors and experts to water course wetland delineation engineers out there on site. We are confident with the data they provided us.

2624
06:50:12,000 --> 06:50:14,000
You know, when when were they there?

2625
06:50:14,000 --> 06:50:22,000
They've we had them out. Well, periodically and we'll have them out again. So to answer your question, we.

2626
06:50:22,000 --> 06:50:32,000
We will have them out again if they discover that it has changed and we will have to accommodate that we will have to be further setback or.

2627
06:50:32,000 --> 06:50:40,000
And follow the rules and with the new department of environment rules, they will require a full delineation, but we had them.

2628
06:50:40,000 --> 06:50:45,000
We had engineers out it last after the public hearing last June.

2629
06:50:45,000 --> 06:50:53,000
They reviewed, they did some aerial some land through thing and compared it to the maps we had. We are confident that it.

2630
06:50:53,000 --> 06:51:01,000
It's reasonably hasn't changed drastically. We're fairly we are confident that it's fairly still accurate our site plan.

2631
06:51:01,000 --> 06:51:10,000
And if we have to make changes, the property, the zone area is large enough to make those alterations and we're happy to do that. It's always a judgment call.

2632
06:51:10,000 --> 06:51:13,000
How much.

2633
06:51:13,000 --> 06:51:25,000
How since the site plan approval process doesn't require that delineation, it's better to wait and do it at the time when we're doing great alteration permits and satisfying the department environment.

2634
06:51:25,000 --> 06:51:35,000
Because the minute you do it, you know, you have to do it again and again, so that's a judgment column half the applicant and staff said there's some risk associated with that, but we still have to meet all their setbacks.

2635
06:51:35,000 --> 06:51:37,000
That doesn't change.

2636
06:51:37,000 --> 06:51:44,000
Okay, maybe I can ask, maybe it'll be simpler.

2637
06:51:44,000 --> 06:51:51,000
Like this pawn changed in size quite considerably and very noticeably, right? Like you can see it on the satellite.

2638
06:51:51,000 --> 06:51:56,000
Have your experts where they out before that or after?

2639
06:51:56,000 --> 06:52:06,000
Well, if it's constantly changing, right, theoretically. So they were there before, they were out there last year, but it's more than just looking at where the water is.

2640
06:52:06,000 --> 06:52:10,000
You have to look at the vegetation, there's certain vegetation associated with wetlands.

2641
06:52:10,000 --> 06:52:14,000
So some areas that don't look like a wetland that are dry can be a wetland.

2642
06:52:14,000 --> 06:52:19,000
Some areas that look wet may not be an actual wetland. There's quite scientific about that.

2643
06:52:19,000 --> 06:52:25,000
And so we're aware that we'll have to, if this takes another year, right?

2644
06:52:25,000 --> 06:52:28,000
Well, do we go out now? Do we go out another year?

2645
06:52:28,000 --> 06:52:31,000
It's not a factor of a site plan approval criteria.

2646
06:52:31,000 --> 06:52:34,000
It's a factor through the environmental process and the permanent process.

2647
06:52:34,000 --> 06:52:36,000
So we'll have to do it prior to that.

2648
06:52:36,000 --> 06:52:38,000
Okay. Thank you.

2649
06:52:42,000 --> 06:52:46,000
Thank you, Councillor Austin. Councillor Gillis.

2650
06:52:46,000 --> 06:52:48,000
Thank you, Madam Chair.

2651
06:52:48,000 --> 06:52:50,000
A few questions, Jennifer.

2652
06:52:50,000 --> 06:52:54,000
What's the type of materials that you're going to store there?

2653
06:52:54,000 --> 06:52:57,000
I know it's C&D, but could you be a little bit more specific?

2654
06:52:57,000 --> 06:53:01,000
How long will the materials be stored there?

2655
06:53:01,000 --> 06:53:09,000
And then part three to that, where do they get shipped off to after they are separated and processed?

2656
06:53:09,000 --> 06:53:14,000
So this is a not a site plan approval matter, but I'll try to answer your question.

2657
06:53:14,000 --> 06:53:16,000
It came up in the past.

2658
06:53:16,000 --> 06:53:19,000
It's actually regulated in your licensee and bylaw.

2659
06:53:19,000 --> 06:53:21,000
There's a definition of C&D materials.

2660
06:53:21,000 --> 06:53:23,000
That's bylaw L200.

2661
06:53:23,000 --> 06:53:28,000
They are inert materials, so we can, it could be things like long steel beams.

2662
06:53:28,000 --> 06:53:32,000
It could be, it's all inert.

2663
06:53:32,000 --> 06:53:43,000
It could be broken down into smaller pieces and used as bedding for plants, landscaping or pet bedding or other building materials.

2664
06:53:43,000 --> 06:53:46,000
A big bean could be cut into two pieces.

2665
06:53:46,000 --> 06:53:48,000
Those are examples.

2666
06:53:48,000 --> 06:53:50,000
But it's all closely regulated.

2667
06:53:50,000 --> 06:53:53,000
No hazardous material is allowed on site.

2668
06:53:53,000 --> 06:53:58,000
The hazardous materials bylaw has to be removed at the site of demolition.

2669
06:53:58,000 --> 06:54:00,000
Sort of you're tearing down a school.

2670
06:54:00,000 --> 06:54:01,000
That has to be removed there.

2671
06:54:01,000 --> 06:54:11,000
There's a federal law about that and dealt with and properly managed, contained and removed.

2672
06:54:11,000 --> 06:54:16,000
Anything that comes to this site has to be able to be reused and recycled.

2673
06:54:16,000 --> 06:54:18,000
Not disposed, no hazardous.

2674
06:54:18,000 --> 06:54:22,000
It's a very, very strict.

2675
06:54:22,000 --> 06:54:24,000
And where do they get sent to after that?

2676
06:54:24,000 --> 06:54:29,000
They get sent out of Nova Scotia, like somewhere else.

2677
06:54:29,000 --> 06:54:30,000
They could be.

2678
06:54:30,000 --> 06:54:38,000
So the way the law works is, you have said that C&D material first has to be dealt with here in H&M.

2679
06:54:38,000 --> 06:54:41,000
We can't even go to another county in Nova Scotia.

2680
06:54:41,000 --> 06:54:43,000
So it has to be, say, what is this?

2681
06:54:43,000 --> 06:54:45,000
You could have lockers from an old school or steel beam.

2682
06:54:45,000 --> 06:54:47,000
Then you decide what you're going to do with it.

2683
06:54:47,000 --> 06:54:51,000
If once it's processed into something else, whether it's animal bedding or whatever,

2684
06:54:51,000 --> 06:54:53,000
then yes, it can be taken.

2685
06:54:53,000 --> 06:54:59,000
It's a repurposed material and it can be taken out of H&M, out of the province.

2686
06:54:59,000 --> 06:55:00,000
Yeah.

2687
06:55:00,000 --> 06:55:01,000
Okay.

2688
06:55:01,000 --> 06:55:02,000
Thank you very much.

2689
06:55:02,000 --> 06:55:06,000
Thank you very much.

2690
06:55:06,000 --> 06:55:07,000
Thank you very much.

2691
06:55:07,000 --> 06:55:10,000
Councillor Mancini.

2692
06:55:10,000 --> 06:55:12,000
Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

2693
06:55:12,000 --> 06:55:15,000
Jennifer, you made the comparison with Ross Road, C&D.

2694
06:55:15,000 --> 06:55:18,000
What type of C&D operations at Ross Road?

2695
06:55:19,000 --> 06:55:23,000
Ross Road is a transfer station, not a processing facility.

2696
06:55:23,000 --> 06:55:29,000
And can you claim the difference between transfer and your site that you're representing is a processing correct?

2697
06:55:29,000 --> 06:55:31,000
It's transfer and processing.

2698
06:55:31,000 --> 06:55:33,000
So can you explain the difference in the two?

2699
06:55:33,000 --> 06:55:34,000
Yeah.

2700
06:55:34,000 --> 06:55:47,000
So transferring is you come in with material before you send it elsewhere and processing your coming in with material to repurpose it or change it into another product to then leave the site.

2701
06:55:47,000 --> 06:55:50,000
So there's additional activity and processing.

2702
06:55:50,000 --> 06:55:51,000
There is.

2703
06:55:51,000 --> 06:55:52,000
Yes.

2704
06:55:52,000 --> 06:55:53,000
Thank you.

2705
06:55:53,000 --> 06:55:57,000
Just got to spend it here for a second.

2706
06:55:57,000 --> 06:55:59,000
We may have a broad cast issue.

2707
06:55:59,000 --> 06:56:02,000
Simon, we may have a broad cast issue.

2708
06:56:02,000 --> 06:56:04,000
Can we just check.

2709
06:56:04,000 --> 06:56:06,000
On moment, please.

2710
06:56:36,000 --> 06:56:54,000
Sorry for that.

2711
06:56:54,000 --> 06:56:57,000
Sorry for that.

2712
06:56:57,000 --> 06:57:04,000
All right, let's come back to order, please.

2713
06:57:04,000 --> 06:57:08,000
Sorry for that interruption.

2714
06:57:08,000 --> 06:57:10,000
Where where we.

2715
06:57:10,000 --> 06:57:12,000
So.

2716
06:57:12,000 --> 06:57:14,000
Councillor.

2717
06:57:14,000 --> 06:57:15,000
Councillor still.

2718
06:57:15,000 --> 06:57:16,000
Okay.

2719
06:57:16,000 --> 06:57:18,000
We were finished with that last question.

2720
06:57:18,000 --> 06:57:19,000
Okay.

2721
06:57:19,000 --> 06:57:20,000
Councillor still.

2722
06:57:20,000 --> 06:57:21,000
Thank you.

2723
06:57:21,000 --> 06:57:22,000
Deputy Mayor.

2724
06:57:22,000 --> 06:57:23,000
I have a question.

2725
06:57:23,000 --> 06:57:25,000
Just about the fence.

2726
06:57:25,000 --> 06:57:33,000
So the height of the fence increased from 1.8 meters to 2.43 or 5 feet to.

2727
06:57:33,000 --> 06:57:35,000
On the state feet.

2728
06:57:35,000 --> 06:57:37,000
Can you describe the fence?

2729
06:57:37,000 --> 06:57:38,000
Please.

2730
06:57:38,000 --> 06:57:41,000
There's been some comment about.

2731
06:57:41,000 --> 06:57:42,000
How.

2732
06:57:42,000 --> 06:57:44,000
Whether the fence will screen or not.

2733
06:57:44,000 --> 06:57:47,000
So can you just describe what what it will be like.

2734
06:57:47,000 --> 06:57:50,000
And if you have experience with using this type of fence.

2735
06:57:50,000 --> 06:57:54,000
Seeing at other facilities.

2736
06:57:54,000 --> 06:57:56,000
Thank you for the question.

2737
06:57:56,000 --> 06:57:57,000
Through you madam chair.

2738
06:57:57,000 --> 06:58:01,000
So the site plan approval criteria is that.

2739
06:58:01,000 --> 06:58:04,000
The building should be provided with existing vegetation first.

2740
06:58:04,000 --> 06:58:07,000
And then supplemented with a variety of means.

2741
06:58:07,000 --> 06:58:08,000
So.

2742
06:58:08,000 --> 06:58:10,000
The fence is proposed to be.

2743
06:58:10,000 --> 06:58:12,000
The chain link with the slats.

2744
06:58:12,000 --> 06:58:14,000
The green slats that go through it.

2745
06:58:14,000 --> 06:58:17,000
With also landscaping and a berm in front of it.

2746
06:58:17,000 --> 06:58:19,000
And it's raised in height.

2747
06:58:19,000 --> 06:58:20,000
So.

2748
06:58:20,000 --> 06:58:23,000
And there are requirements in your licensing by law.

2749
06:58:23,000 --> 06:58:25,000
That the that it be maintained.

2750
06:58:25,000 --> 06:58:27,000
So if there's any.

2751
06:58:27,000 --> 06:58:29,000
And then you can do it or or you know,

2752
06:58:29,000 --> 06:58:31,000
as stop functioning the way it should.

2753
06:58:31,000 --> 06:58:34,000
Then it has to be maintained and and corrected repaired.

2754
06:58:34,000 --> 06:58:35,000
So.

2755
06:58:35,000 --> 06:58:38,000
The other C and D sites in H R M.

2756
06:58:38,000 --> 06:58:40,000
Don't have that fancy.

2757
06:58:40,000 --> 06:58:41,000
It all.

2758
06:58:41,000 --> 06:58:44,000
So this would be an improvement over what you currently have.

2759
06:58:44,000 --> 06:58:45,000
Okay.

2760
06:58:45,000 --> 06:58:46,000
Thank you.

2761
06:58:46,000 --> 06:58:49,000
Thank you.

2762
06:58:49,000 --> 06:58:50,000
Councilor.

2763
06:58:50,000 --> 06:58:53,000
Thank you.

2764
06:58:53,000 --> 06:58:54,000
Thank you.

2765
06:58:54,000 --> 06:58:56,000
Thank you.

2766
06:58:56,000 --> 06:58:57,000
Thank you.

2767
06:58:57,000 --> 06:58:58,000
Jennifer.

2768
06:58:58,000 --> 06:59:00,000
My question was also about the fence.

2769
06:59:00,000 --> 06:59:06,000
You know, we heard me ask our staff about the one change that it looks like since the last time we spoke.

2770
06:59:06,000 --> 06:59:09,000
And.

2771
06:59:09,000 --> 06:59:10,000
So in my district.

2772
06:59:10,000 --> 06:59:13,000
I do have a C and D facility.

2773
06:59:13,000 --> 06:59:15,000
It's pretty well gated.

2774
06:59:15,000 --> 06:59:17,000
It is off of the highway.

2775
06:59:17,000 --> 06:59:19,000
It is in a more rural.

2776
06:59:19,000 --> 06:59:21,000
Context.

2777
06:59:22,000 --> 06:59:23,000
There is some fancy no.

2778
06:59:23,000 --> 06:59:25,000
I heard you say that there's no fancy.

2779
06:59:25,000 --> 06:59:26,000
But.

2780
06:59:26,000 --> 06:59:29,000
And then when I think about the comparison with Ross Road.

2781
06:59:29,000 --> 06:59:31,000
So Ross Road just being a transfer station.

2782
06:59:31,000 --> 06:59:33,000
So it's different as councilman.

2783
06:59:33,000 --> 06:59:34,000
See any.

2784
06:59:34,000 --> 06:59:38,000
You know, elicit it that it's very different activity than what happens.

2785
06:59:38,000 --> 06:59:42,000
So was your comparison to use Ross Road only about process.

2786
06:59:42,000 --> 06:59:45,000
Because even, you know, I drive by.

2787
06:59:45,000 --> 06:59:48,000
Ross Road a couple of times a month.

2788
06:59:49,000 --> 06:59:50,000
And.

2789
06:59:50,000 --> 06:59:53,000
You know, I know that some of that fencing is a very solid look.

2790
06:59:53,000 --> 06:59:55,000
It's not just chain link.

2791
06:59:55,000 --> 06:59:56,000
Right.

2792
06:59:56,000 --> 06:59:58,000
So having heard.

2793
06:59:58,000 --> 07:00:00,000
The appealance and all of that kind of stuff.

2794
07:00:00,000 --> 07:00:10,000
Still, the applicant had not decided to change anything about the chain length fence to make it a little bit more visible from the naked eye.

2795
07:00:10,000 --> 07:00:21,000
So I'm just wondering why you stayed with just the chain length fence and haven't looked to accommodate the community in another way in terms of the composition of the fence.

2796
07:00:21,000 --> 07:00:31,000
A little bit curious about that, and in some of your images, the site line that you take, is it only from, I was trying to figure out, position myself, you know, or things in West.

2797
07:00:31,000 --> 07:00:41,000
But it looked like it was, the site lines were only from Highway 7, were they from different, could, could you clarify that for me then, please?

2798
07:00:41,000 --> 07:00:47,000
Thank you, certainly. Thank you, Councillor, through you, the chair. So I'll, a couple of questions there.

2799
07:00:47,000 --> 07:00:59,000
I don't know if I can get my, my presentation, my first question was going to say we could put the slide back up. Okay.

2800
07:00:59,000 --> 07:01:07,000
Okay. So I'll start with your last question. So this plan shows cross section. So this is cross section called A to A.

2801
07:01:07,000 --> 07:01:20,000
So the site plan approval says screening from the adjoining lands, which is, would be the immediately adjacent. So standing on the property line here, looking towards the zone line.

2802
07:01:20,000 --> 07:01:30,000
So that's A to A. That's this first cross section below. So this is the right hand side property line looking towards the zone line over here.

2803
07:01:30,000 --> 07:01:35,000
Okay. So is that Highway 7? No, that's from the side property line. Highway 7 isn't front here.

2804
07:01:35,000 --> 07:01:47,000
Okay. Thank you. And so if you look at this A over to this A, this line represents the cross section. So it's standing on the property line inside the property not right on Highway 7.

2805
07:01:47,000 --> 07:01:51,000
Okay. So that's that one.

2806
07:01:52,000 --> 07:01:58,000
B cross section is from the left hand side, the western property line also in from the highway.

2807
07:01:58,000 --> 07:02:06,000
And we chose a site that a view of view line that just nips the corner of this older growth.

2808
07:02:06,000 --> 07:02:17,000
And is more through the regeneration. So here it is here. Here's the person standing looking through the regeneration forest. It slopes down. You hit that little pocket of.

2809
07:02:17,000 --> 07:02:22,000
What did area and then it slopes up and then here's where the fence would be over here.

2810
07:02:22,000 --> 07:02:31,000
Or the we're calling it a fence. As you know, it's the concrete barrier chain link with the slats. So what changed touching on your other question was.

2811
07:02:31,000 --> 07:02:35,000
Our previous plan was just chain link because our.

2812
07:02:35,000 --> 07:02:43,000
The feeling was you with all the existing vegetation. You pretty much can't see that far anyway. And the site plan approval says.

2813
07:02:43,000 --> 07:02:52,000
Where the existing vegetation is good enough. It should be supplemented. But because of the concerns of council last meeting and we didn't have this detailed conversation about the vegetation.

2814
07:02:52,000 --> 07:03:00,000
There was some thought that maybe there was no vegetation whatsoever. So we wanted to demonstrate what the vegetation actually is.

2815
07:03:00,000 --> 07:03:05,000
We've increased the height of the fence. We've added slats.

2816
07:03:06,000 --> 07:03:16,000
And supplemented some of the vegetation in the front here and gave more information. So that was the biggest issue at hand. And so that's why we've got a different.

2817
07:03:16,000 --> 07:03:18,000
I'm going to run at a time can ask for.

2818
07:03:18,000 --> 07:03:23,000
Just before I run at a time. So your site lines are with your within the property.

2819
07:03:23,000 --> 07:03:26,000
No, they're from right outside the property line.

2820
07:03:27,000 --> 07:03:29,000
You have to like get out of your car.

2821
07:03:29,000 --> 07:03:32,000
Be in there for those lines to make any sense.

2822
07:03:32,000 --> 07:03:38,000
So I guess my concern is how relevant is that to if I'm.

2823
07:03:38,000 --> 07:03:45,000
On number seven highway looking or if I'm the next community road of the neighborhood looking.

2824
07:03:45,000 --> 07:03:50,000
So I just I can't quite equate.

2825
07:03:50,000 --> 07:03:55,000
What you're showing us as being relevant to the concerns of the community.

2826
07:03:55,000 --> 07:03:59,000
So yes, it does make sense. What I'm showing you is what's relevant to the site plan approval.

2827
07:03:59,000 --> 07:04:00,000
This isn't.

2828
07:04:00,000 --> 07:04:08,000
The site plan approval does not require that every community within kilometers and kilometers should not be able to see the site at all.

2829
07:04:08,000 --> 07:04:14,000
If you're if there's a subdivision that's up higher and in elevation two kilometers away, that's not.

2830
07:04:14,000 --> 07:04:19,000
What we have to screen it from the site plan approval says you have to screen it from enjoying properties.

2831
07:04:19,000 --> 07:04:24,000
So we do have a view from the front line from the street from the highway.

2832
07:04:24,000 --> 07:04:27,000
It you're right. It doesn't make a lot of sense. Who's going to be standing there?

2833
07:04:27,000 --> 07:04:31,000
But we're trying to meet site plan approval and show you that there is vegetation.

2834
07:04:31,000 --> 07:04:34,000
And here's what you would see if you were if you were on the adjoining property.

2835
07:04:34,000 --> 07:04:38,000
And we did it from the rear because it's also the adjoining property.

2836
07:04:38,000 --> 07:04:40,000
Even though that's mostly that is.

2837
07:04:40,000 --> 07:04:41,000
Provisual crown land.

2838
07:04:41,000 --> 07:04:44,000
So no, it doesn't make sense and that's why we didn't really show it before.

2839
07:04:44,000 --> 07:04:48,000
But because there was so much confusion about screening last time.

2840
07:04:48,000 --> 07:04:51,000
We said, well, let's go to the site plan approval criteria.

2841
07:04:51,000 --> 07:04:59,000
Let's show the cross sections from every adjoining property line, which is what what it says.

2842
07:04:59,000 --> 07:05:03,000
So that you so that everyone can understand what what the vegetation is.

2843
07:05:03,000 --> 07:05:08,000
And we increase the fence and even though one could argue at that point.

2844
07:05:08,000 --> 07:05:09,000
I'm way over time.

2845
07:05:09,000 --> 07:05:10,000
Sorry.

2846
07:05:10,000 --> 07:05:11,000
Thank you.

2847
07:05:11,000 --> 07:05:12,000
Thank you.

2848
07:05:12,000 --> 07:05:14,000
Councillor Kent.

2849
07:05:14,000 --> 07:05:15,000
Thank you. Thank you.

2850
07:05:15,000 --> 07:05:17,000
Madam Deputy Mayor.

2851
07:05:18,000 --> 07:05:29,000
So I'm going to go back to and I know that you commented about the set the setbacks for the wetlands is not relevant to this, but there is.

2852
07:05:29,000 --> 07:05:44,000
And there is a layer of interest for me in that, you know, the capacity for me to be absolutely sure of the information that's coming forward.

2853
07:05:44,000 --> 07:05:47,000
I'm going to I just want to know.

2854
07:05:47,000 --> 07:05:53,000
From the last time this was here and from the time that it was in reach and have reached.

2855
07:05:53,000 --> 07:05:59,000
There was a question around concerns related to the water course.

2856
07:05:59,000 --> 07:06:03,000
In the photographs that we have seen.

2857
07:06:03,000 --> 07:06:07,000
Well, from yourself and from the appellants.

2858
07:06:07,000 --> 07:06:17,000
It shows a very wooded area that is dead, but at least on its way to being completely dead.

2859
07:06:17,000 --> 07:06:22,000
And and false zooming in on that.

2860
07:06:22,000 --> 07:06:25,000
It appears to me that it's very wet.

2861
07:06:25,000 --> 07:06:34,000
So you your your who you're representing knows that.

2862
07:06:34,000 --> 07:06:37,000
You know that.

2863
07:06:37,000 --> 07:06:42,000
Knowing that you're coming into a situation like this.

2864
07:06:42,000 --> 07:06:46,000
And you've made some adjustments to.

2865
07:06:46,000 --> 07:06:49,000
Some of the concerns of the community.

2866
07:06:49,000 --> 07:06:53,000
Why would that not have triggered this.

2867
07:06:53,000 --> 07:06:59,000
Proponent to make some adjustments to that now.

2868
07:06:59,000 --> 07:07:01,000
I'm a counselor.

2869
07:07:01,000 --> 07:07:12,000
I'm concerned we're moving a little away from the site plan approval and if I can and if I can refer you to the environmental implications section of the report.

2870
07:07:12,000 --> 07:07:19,000
It's very clear there are no environmental implications with the proposed development as it pertains to municipal approvals.

2871
07:07:19,000 --> 07:07:24,000
That's been reviewed by planning development staff as well as legal.

2872
07:07:24,000 --> 07:07:30,000
So what we are you know here to hear the appeal on is the site plan approval.

2873
07:07:30,000 --> 07:07:37,000
And in particular the concerns that was raised by this council at the last appeal which really related to the to the.

2874
07:07:37,000 --> 07:07:41,000
The site lines from the property line.

2875
07:07:41,000 --> 07:07:44,000
There was very little other concerns raised.

2876
07:07:44,000 --> 07:07:53,000
And so I would ask members of council all of you to keep in mind that really we are focused here on the site plan approval.

2877
07:07:53,000 --> 07:07:57,000
As in accordance with our by law.

2878
07:07:57,000 --> 07:08:05,000
Thank you I guess from my perspective it's around to being being able to rely on the data and the information that's coming forward.

2879
07:08:05,000 --> 07:08:07,000
So.

2880
07:08:07,000 --> 07:08:14,000
Has to be relevant I get it all right thank you.

2881
07:08:14,000 --> 07:08:17,000
I see no other.

2882
07:08:17,000 --> 07:08:19,000
The name's on the board.

2883
07:08:19,000 --> 07:08:21,000
I have a question.

2884
07:08:21,000 --> 07:08:23,000
May.

2885
07:08:23,000 --> 07:08:29,000
Well, may first you may ask the question for the chair with that would be okay.

2886
07:08:29,000 --> 07:08:34,000
So John I'm going to challenge you on councilor Ken's question about the trees.

2887
07:08:34,000 --> 07:08:45,000
Could you pull up that the cross section please again that shows the vegetation.

2888
07:08:46,000 --> 07:08:53,000
Right so on on the map you have that the uppermost green patch that screen.

2889
07:08:53,000 --> 07:09:00,000
I was showing that as tree vegetation but that is in fact the dead patch trees.

2890
07:09:00,000 --> 07:09:10,000
That upper green one would be the dead trees so it doesn't really act as a green buffer anymore as showing on the map.

2891
07:09:10,000 --> 07:09:13,000
I guess that's the that's.

2892
07:09:13,000 --> 07:09:15,000
Our landscape architect went out.

2893
07:09:15,000 --> 07:09:23,000
He's licensed use accurate data were confident that if he's if this has changed or this is inaccurate it will be discovered when we do.

2894
07:09:23,000 --> 07:09:30,000
The delineation at the time when we're working with department environment a lot of information the photos that we've seen.

2895
07:09:30,000 --> 07:09:39,000
That that's all right thank you thank you that is the that is the dead patch trees so it's not about the expansion of the water it's about which right now we're talking about screening and buffering.

2896
07:09:39,000 --> 07:09:43,000
And if that is being indicated as a screen or a buffer.

2897
07:09:43,000 --> 07:09:52,000
I don't think that could be showing on the map and on this on this schematic anymore as as a green buffer.

2898
07:09:52,000 --> 07:10:04,000
Yeah it shows existing within area but from all the screenshots and areas and drone shots and Google shots we've seen it's actually a dead forest it's not.

2899
07:10:04,000 --> 07:10:10,000
It's it's a drown force it's not a live force it's not a green buffer zone.

2900
07:10:10,000 --> 07:10:17,000
Well I don't think I think it's if it's being indicated as as treat.

2901
07:10:17,000 --> 07:10:24,000
Screening it's it's not but my other point here is that.

2902
07:10:25,000 --> 07:10:33,000
Sorry I have the floor there council security I'd appreciate I'm asking for question of clarification about the trees.

2903
07:10:33,000 --> 07:10:36,000
Yes.

2904
07:10:40,000 --> 07:10:44,000
Thank you madam chair deputy mayor.

2905
07:10:44,000 --> 07:10:50,000
You must only ask questions of clarification not debate with speaker.

2906
07:10:50,000 --> 07:10:52,000
Right.

2907
07:10:53,000 --> 07:11:05,000
The other question I have is about why specifically are you choosing the property line for your sight lines and not the adjacent parcel so.

2908
07:11:05,000 --> 07:11:11,000
When I'm reading the requirements here it says that the land use impacts on the adjoining lands.

2909
07:11:11,000 --> 07:11:30,000
Not necessarily from the property boundary but from the lands in general and so when you I'm just wondering when you go to the adjoining lands you take any other perspectives beyond the ones from the property boundaries.

2910
07:11:30,000 --> 07:11:40,000
So the adjoining lands we could have gone further into the joining lands further from the property line but that would have shown more a greater distance and that someone might have thought that was also misleading.

2911
07:11:40,000 --> 07:11:48,000
So we got as close as we could to show what the view would be from the adjoining lands.

2912
07:11:48,000 --> 07:11:53,000
Right so it was kind of a comprehensive look at the view from the adjoining lands.

2913
07:11:53,000 --> 07:12:04,000
We did not go through the entire adjoining lands and create a bunch of views from the entire adjoining means immediately Jason we went to the closest point of the adjoining lands to the property.

2914
07:12:04,000 --> 07:12:11,000
And that's where the perspective would be the shortest kind of perspective with the trees.

2915
07:12:11,000 --> 07:12:22,000
Like if you had the trees right there and you're standing right here with the adjoining land as opposed to being 50 feet back with that change the perspective if you were 50 feet back or 100 feet.

2916
07:12:22,000 --> 07:12:35,000
We depend on the grades and whether there's vegetation in that 50 feet on the adjoining lands but you're still looking through the entirety of our of the previous properties and we need that consider.

2917
07:12:35,000 --> 07:12:42,000
We did not do great elevation it's not required but we did not do great elevations of the entirety of all the adjoining lands no.

2918
07:12:42,000 --> 07:12:47,000
Okay thank you.

2919
07:12:47,000 --> 07:12:57,000
Okay seeing no further questions on the board.

2920
07:12:57,000 --> 07:13:05,000
I'm going to now turn the page.

2921
07:13:05,000 --> 07:13:10,000
Okay so.

2922
07:13:10,000 --> 07:13:13,000
I'm going to turn over to you solicitor.

2923
07:13:13,000 --> 07:13:20,000
Would you please outline the process for council and the motion which must now be put on the floor.

2924
07:13:20,000 --> 07:13:34,000
Okay so as the recommendation section of the report says the rules requires to put the motion on the floor that reads that the appeal be allowed.

2925
07:13:35,000 --> 07:14:00,000
If that passes then that would allow the appeal of the residents and reject the site plan approval as presented by the property owner and the staff recommendation is that you vote no and deny the appeal on the basis says set out in the report and as you've heard from the respondent.

2926
07:14:00,000 --> 07:14:15,000
And I would note that this is actually the second appeal of this site plan approval council heads considered this as as you've been told and that is.

2927
07:14:15,000 --> 07:14:31,000
In the submissions and staff comments in the discussion section in effect where council heard this the first time it raised no issues with the items which are marked as addressed in the previous site plan approval submission.

2928
07:14:31,000 --> 07:14:44,000
So if there is new concerns with what you essentially agreed to in the past we would need to understand that for the record going forward in terms of challenging that at this point.

2929
07:14:44,000 --> 07:15:00,000
And as you've heard the C&D facility is itself and approved use of the property by virtue of the Supreme Court's order so the number of the issues that are raised are.

2930
07:15:00,000 --> 07:15:29,960
Unfortunately, and, you know, very distressing for all involved, but not germane, unfortunately, the argument. The issue is largely whether you're satisfied now with the revised site plan approval, and as I've noted as well, the issues surrounding noise and the concerns on noise, air quality, water quality, or property values are not relevant to the site plan approval question.

2931
07:15:30,000 --> 07:15:58,000
Okay. So you will vote no, if you accept the staff's recommendation and support the development officers decision on the matter, which would allow the facility to proceed to the next stages of planning and approvals from DOE in the rest, or vote yes to allow the appeal in which case the site plan approval is denied.

2932
07:15:58,000 --> 07:16:18,000
Okay. That's the motion. That's the motion. Recommendation is that the staff recommend the council deny the appeal.

2933
07:16:18,000 --> 07:16:22,000
Okay. Okay. There we go.

2934
07:16:22,000 --> 07:16:27,000
Okay.

2935
07:16:27,000 --> 07:16:29,000
Okay.

2936
07:16:29,000 --> 07:16:34,000
Just clarifying everything here, Councillor Kent.

2937
07:16:34,000 --> 07:16:37,000
Thank you, Madam Deputy Mayor, I'll put the motion on the floor.

2938
07:16:37,000 --> 07:16:42,000
I moved that Halifax Regional Council allow the appeal.

2939
07:16:42,000 --> 07:16:46,000
I'll speak to that now.

2940
07:16:46,000 --> 07:16:54,000
I've been involved in this right from the very beginning and as far as those at Herber East in the last six years.

2941
07:16:54,000 --> 07:17:11,000
I am fully aware that this decision has to be based on the current policies within the

2942
07:17:11,000 --> 07:17:17,000
land use. I forget what it's called the.

2943
07:17:17,000 --> 07:17:26,000
The by law related to the plan that we're seeing today and I would.

2944
07:17:26,000 --> 07:17:38,000
Point to page five landscaping plan that shall be prepared that protects the minimizes land use impacts on a joining lands and the plan shall indicate the type size and location of all landscaping.

2945
07:17:38,000 --> 07:17:53,000
Elements including the landscaping along the front of the property to achieve the objective plan and a second one within any design design side and rear yards existing vegetation shall be retained unless it does not provide an adequate screening measures.

2946
07:17:53,000 --> 07:17:57,000
I put forward that I will be voting in favor of the.

2947
07:17:57,000 --> 07:18:07,000
Appellants and in recognition that to me those do not these are not satisfied enough for me to proceed. Thank you.

2948
07:18:08,000 --> 07:18:15,000
All right. Thank you. Councilor Mancini.

2949
07:18:15,000 --> 07:18:18,000
Thank you. Deputy Mayor.

2950
07:18:18,000 --> 07:18:21,000
Deputy Mayor as the slits are sitting early on tonight.

2951
07:18:21,000 --> 07:18:26,000
I've got questions and so staff have already done their presentation.

2952
07:18:26,000 --> 07:18:33,000
So some of these questions are from some of the presenters and I crossed off the ones are not relevant to the site.

2953
07:18:33,000 --> 07:18:37,000
I've done that. So I'm going to direct those questions to you.

2954
07:18:37,000 --> 07:18:43,000
I'm definitely there and hopefully someone in the room that has the knowledge of it and I'll give those questions to you now.

2955
07:18:43,000 --> 07:18:46,000
There's a claim of the ceiling pond is the wrong location.

2956
07:18:46,000 --> 07:18:50,000
So I haven't been on the site. I know idea. I'm just looking at the map.

2957
07:18:50,000 --> 07:18:59,000
Now, there's the claim that it's the wrong location is who do we have to get in from staff that can tell us that's cracked.

2958
07:18:59,000 --> 07:19:04,000
The next question is that, you know, and I think Councilor Kent alluded to it is the role of the fence.

2959
07:19:04,000 --> 07:19:09,000
What's the fence supposed to do? What material can use? What's the height? How do we measure that?

2960
07:19:09,000 --> 07:19:13,000
Is there any confirmation of what's being proposed? What's in place is accurate?

2961
07:19:13,000 --> 07:19:15,000
There's claim of the buffers incorrect.

2962
07:19:15,000 --> 07:19:19,000
Should be 60 meters in fact claim was that it's less than five meters from the water course.

2963
07:19:19,000 --> 07:19:23,000
Any confirmation of that with the rest correct or not?

2964
07:19:24,000 --> 07:19:29,000
The site plan not being accurate was another claim with regard the wetlands and the erosion.

2965
07:19:29,000 --> 07:19:38,000
And Councilor Austin talked about how the wetlands have grown dramatically from what we've seen here on the screen.

2966
07:19:38,000 --> 07:19:42,000
Vegetation is used as a claim to a visual screen.

2967
07:19:42,000 --> 07:19:48,000
Yet there's an argument that the vegetation is very high and so how do we identify that?

2968
07:19:48,000 --> 07:19:52,000
How do we measure that confirmed? That's the case.

2969
07:19:52,000 --> 07:19:57,000
You know, the applicant showed us in repression, general reshorter of vegetation.

2970
07:19:57,000 --> 07:20:00,000
Very good maps about sight lines.

2971
07:20:00,000 --> 07:20:05,000
So that's great. That's what the map is. How do we know that's accurate or not?

2972
07:20:05,000 --> 07:20:07,000
Is there a confirmation of that other end?

2973
07:20:07,000 --> 07:20:10,000
So those are the questions I'm just looking to answer.

2974
07:20:10,000 --> 07:20:15,000
And I think they're all related to the site plan.

2975
07:20:15,000 --> 07:20:17,000
Let me try.

2976
07:20:17,000 --> 07:20:19,000
Madam chair, I think you to council.

2977
07:20:19,000 --> 07:20:21,000
And I could repeat those here.

2978
07:20:21,000 --> 07:20:26,000
No, you may need to, but let me let me start off by putting it this way.

2979
07:20:26,000 --> 07:20:29,000
You're sitting in a quasi-dude issue position.

2980
07:20:29,000 --> 07:20:31,000
It's not a question of unanswered.

2981
07:20:31,000 --> 07:20:34,000
It's it's it's not an issue of unanswered questions.

2982
07:20:34,000 --> 07:20:39,000
It's a question of whether you're satisfied on the evidence in front of you, which is the staff report.

2983
07:20:39,000 --> 07:20:47,000
And any evidence or proof led by the applicants or the respondent in response.

2984
07:20:47,000 --> 07:20:53,000
So the 60 meter water course setback is set out in a dressed in attachment.

2985
07:20:53,000 --> 07:20:55,000
See of the report.

2986
07:20:55,000 --> 07:21:01,000
And is largely a matter as you will be aware of the Department of Environment and the rest.

2987
07:21:01,000 --> 07:21:05,000
So it's, you know, in terms of the fencing.

2988
07:21:05,000 --> 07:21:12,000
Council has to be satisfied with respect to whether or not it meets the requirements based on what you've heard tonight

2989
07:21:12,000 --> 07:21:17,000
for, you know, the buffering has set out in a by-law.

2990
07:21:17,000 --> 07:21:25,000
And, and so you have the evidence of the responded applicant in this case, the property owner.

2991
07:21:25,000 --> 07:21:28,000
Setting out what it, what it does.

2992
07:21:28,000 --> 07:21:36,000
And you will have heard from, you know, and you can judge from the plan and the staff report as to whether that's satisfactory or not.

2993
07:21:36,000 --> 07:21:43,000
So it's not a question of unanswered questions as it is in a public hearing.

2994
07:21:43,000 --> 07:21:48,000
It's a question of sitting in judgment on the on the development officer's decision.

2995
07:21:48,000 --> 07:21:57,000
Are you satisfied that the development officer made the right decision or not?

2996
07:21:57,000 --> 07:21:59,000
Where are we for time here?

2997
07:21:59,000 --> 07:22:02,000
Not sure if I got it all.

2998
07:22:02,000 --> 07:22:04,000
Right, and so it's clarification.

2999
07:22:04,000 --> 07:22:08,000
This is very difficult because this is not my expertise.

3000
07:22:08,000 --> 07:22:11,000
And we deal with a lot of stuff here at Council.

3001
07:22:11,000 --> 07:22:12,000
That's not my expertise.

3002
07:22:12,000 --> 07:22:17,000
So we rely upon our qualified staff to bring forward the information.

3003
07:22:17,000 --> 07:22:22,000
And so personally when I look at it, I look at what is the staff telling us if there's an applicant,

3004
07:22:22,000 --> 07:22:27,000
but is the applicant sent and I listen to the residents if it evolves the residents.

3005
07:22:27,000 --> 07:22:29,000
Today's situation is very difficult.

3006
07:22:29,000 --> 07:22:36,000
I sat in some of your living rooms years ago when I first got elected to listen to your concerns.

3007
07:22:36,000 --> 07:22:38,000
It came to community council.

3008
07:22:38,000 --> 07:22:41,000
We voted in a certain way in community council and they got overturned.

3009
07:22:41,000 --> 07:22:44,000
The question is asked, would I like to see the operation next to me?

3010
07:22:44,000 --> 07:22:46,000
And the answer is absolutely no.

3011
07:22:46,000 --> 07:22:47,000
I wouldn't like it.

3012
07:22:47,000 --> 07:22:48,000
And I'd be arguing the point.

3013
07:22:48,000 --> 07:22:50,000
It's very difficult where we sit here today.

3014
07:22:50,000 --> 07:22:54,000
I mean, based on what you just heard from the solicitor, we have to go by the information is here.

3015
07:22:54,000 --> 07:22:55,000
I don't like it.

3016
07:22:55,000 --> 07:23:02,000
I think I can hear the pain in your voices and I can see it and you're concerned.

3017
07:23:02,000 --> 07:23:11,000
We've already had to call these of ours that gave their strong opinion and they're not a lot of you and me here.

3018
07:23:11,000 --> 07:23:14,000
I'm sure they're watching at home here today.

3019
07:23:14,000 --> 07:23:17,000
This whole thing in my opinion, personally, is a mess.

3020
07:23:17,000 --> 07:23:19,000
It smells and I don't like it.

3021
07:23:19,000 --> 07:23:24,000
However, I think one gentleman said we have rules and the rules have to follow.

3022
07:23:24,000 --> 07:23:27,000
He said, you know, I think he recorded it until it doesn't make any sense.

3023
07:23:27,000 --> 07:23:31,000
Well, I'm close to that, but, you know, I can't be there.

3024
07:23:31,000 --> 07:23:37,000
So unfortunately, my situation is as much as I don't like this that I'm going to have to vote against the appeal.

3025
07:23:37,000 --> 07:23:42,000
However, I'm hoping after this regardless what happens if it doesn't go in the way that you want.

3026
07:23:42,000 --> 07:23:45,000
I'm looking at the folks in the gallery that you, you know, the province.

3027
07:23:45,000 --> 07:23:47,000
The province is hopefully is the last one.

3028
07:23:47,000 --> 07:23:48,000
They change the rules.

3029
07:23:48,000 --> 07:23:51,000
They make the final decision on the environment piece.

3030
07:23:51,000 --> 07:23:54,000
Hopefully, they see what we all see.

3031
07:23:54,000 --> 07:23:59,000
And they have that jurisdiction to vote in the right direction.

3032
07:23:59,000 --> 07:24:04,000
So, thank you, colleagues.

3033
07:24:04,000 --> 07:24:05,000
Thank you.

3034
07:24:05,000 --> 07:24:06,000
Thank you.

3035
07:24:06,000 --> 07:24:08,000
Councillor Cleary.

3036
07:24:08,000 --> 07:24:09,000
Thank you.

3037
07:24:09,000 --> 07:24:10,000
Deputy Mayor.

3038
07:24:10,000 --> 07:24:11,000
Councillor Mayan.

3039
07:24:11,000 --> 07:24:13,000
It's kind of tricky.

3040
07:24:13,000 --> 07:24:15,000
It smells.

3041
07:24:15,000 --> 07:24:18,000
But it's actually pretty straightforward.

3042
07:24:19,000 --> 07:24:21,000
You may not like how we got here.

3043
07:24:21,000 --> 07:24:27,000
But, you know, just to sum up, the then utilities and review board in 2020,

3044
07:24:27,000 --> 07:24:34,000
he decided with the appellants, key and management, to permit the C&D facility.

3045
07:24:34,000 --> 07:24:37,000
We can't change that.

3046
07:24:37,000 --> 07:24:44,000
Key and then applied, and through this process,

3047
07:24:44,000 --> 07:24:49,000
it was overturned, got a judicial review, which was decided in 2024.

3048
07:24:49,000 --> 07:24:52,000
Judge Jameson overturned it and said,

3049
07:24:52,000 --> 07:24:54,000
It's got to come back to council.

3050
07:24:54,000 --> 07:24:55,000
Did?

3051
07:24:55,000 --> 07:24:58,000
It was not approved.

3052
07:24:58,000 --> 07:24:59,000
Went back.

3053
07:24:59,000 --> 07:25:00,000
Here it is again.

3054
07:25:00,000 --> 07:25:03,000
So, what's interesting is several speakers.

3055
07:25:03,000 --> 07:25:05,000
And I think everyone for coming out.

3056
07:25:05,000 --> 07:25:11,000
I understand how fraught and how emotional this process probably is.

3057
07:25:12,000 --> 07:25:15,000
But several people refer to this as a proposal.

3058
07:25:15,000 --> 07:25:16,000
It's not.

3059
07:25:16,000 --> 07:25:17,000
It's not about the wetlands.

3060
07:25:17,000 --> 07:25:18,000
It's not about the air quality.

3061
07:25:18,000 --> 07:25:21,000
It's not about traffic or trucks or any of those things.

3062
07:25:21,000 --> 07:25:26,000
It's about a site plan approval process in the limited criteria that are met

3063
07:25:26,000 --> 07:25:29,000
for the site plan approval process.

3064
07:25:29,000 --> 07:25:34,000
So, Councillor Mayan said, he's looking for advice from our qualified staff.

3065
07:25:34,000 --> 07:25:35,000
They gave it.

3066
07:25:35,000 --> 07:25:36,000
It's right here.

3067
07:25:36,000 --> 07:25:40,000
Our qualified staff explicitly state in this report that they

3068
07:25:40,000 --> 07:25:44,000
recommend going ahead with this and turning down the appeal

3069
07:25:44,000 --> 07:25:47,000
and allowing the site plan to be approved.

3070
07:25:47,000 --> 07:25:51,000
So, if you're looking for advice for qualified staff, that's the advice.

3071
07:25:51,000 --> 07:25:54,000
And to our solicitor's point,

3072
07:25:54,000 --> 07:25:57,000
we're in a quasi-judicial environment here.

3073
07:25:57,000 --> 07:25:59,000
We have to make a decision.

3074
07:25:59,000 --> 07:26:00,000
Do we agree with the appellants?

3075
07:26:00,000 --> 07:26:03,000
Or do we agree with the responded?

3076
07:26:03,000 --> 07:26:08,000
This is also subject to judicial review.

3077
07:26:08,000 --> 07:26:13,000
And if we make the wrong decision, and especially if we use criteria or factors

3078
07:26:13,000 --> 07:26:17,000
that are not relevant to the site plan approval process in this appeal before us,

3079
07:26:17,000 --> 07:26:22,000
guess where that's going to go?

3080
07:26:22,000 --> 07:26:29,000
So, I have considered the speakers who have spoken here today.

3081
07:26:29,000 --> 07:26:34,000
Both the song and all the residents who came forward.

3082
07:26:34,000 --> 07:26:41,000
And on balance, I have to vote to not allow the appeal.

3083
07:26:41,000 --> 07:26:49,000
The screening, the vegetation, even from the submitted photographs,

3084
07:26:49,000 --> 07:26:56,000
it's pretty clear there's plenty of screening around this property that meets the site plan approval process.

3085
07:26:56,000 --> 07:27:02,000
So, you know, it is what it is.

3086
07:27:02,000 --> 07:27:07,000
And all of the other factors, the palm, the buffer,

3087
07:27:07,000 --> 07:27:11,000
those are not within our consideration today.

3088
07:27:11,000 --> 07:27:17,000
So, thank you, Deputy Mayor.

3089
07:27:17,000 --> 07:27:20,000
Thank you, Councillor Councillor Steele.

3090
07:27:20,000 --> 07:27:24,000
Thank you, Chair and Deputy Mayor.

3091
07:27:24,000 --> 07:27:29,000
A couple things struck me in this evening's appeal hearing.

3092
07:27:30,000 --> 07:27:37,000
And our staff report, they said we may make any decision that the development officer could have made.

3093
07:27:37,000 --> 07:27:45,000
And of course, the development officer's decision was based on the site plan approval criteria.

3094
07:27:45,000 --> 07:27:57,000
So, like Councillor Clarie, I feel that I have to vote with the recommendation of our staff.

3095
07:27:57,000 --> 07:28:01,000
I based on what's been presented.

3096
07:28:01,000 --> 07:28:11,000
I feel that the site plan approval criteria dictate that we go with the recommendation of the development officer.

3097
07:28:11,000 --> 07:28:16,000
I like a number of Councillors, Councillor Mancini.

3098
07:28:16,000 --> 07:28:25,000
I understand the concerns of residents in the area, but whether this facility goes ahead or not is out of our hands.

3099
07:28:25,000 --> 07:28:28,000
We were here tonight for a specific reason.

3100
07:28:28,000 --> 07:28:35,000
We varied a bit from it, but we were to approve the site plan or our reject,

3101
07:28:35,000 --> 07:28:41,000
whether we were comfortable and whether the changes that we requested last time were made.

3102
07:28:41,000 --> 07:28:43,000
There were changes made.

3103
07:28:43,000 --> 07:28:45,000
I feel they're sufficient.

3104
07:28:45,000 --> 07:28:51,000
So, I will be voting no.

3105
07:28:51,000 --> 07:28:54,000
Thank you, Councillor Councillor Austin.

3106
07:28:54,000 --> 07:28:59,000
Thank you, Mr. Chair and, you know, similar sentiment here.

3107
07:28:59,000 --> 07:29:09,000
I remember when I was fresh elected going out and sitting in a living room to hear about this proposal,

3108
07:29:09,000 --> 07:29:15,000
as it was winding its way through a harbor east and I never supported it, right?

3109
07:29:15,000 --> 07:29:18,000
I took the staff report, but that was well done.

3110
07:29:18,000 --> 07:29:21,000
I thought in raised good points and voted no.

3111
07:29:21,000 --> 07:29:24,000
Let's not reason this land.

3112
07:29:24,000 --> 07:29:26,000
We know how that went.

3113
07:29:26,000 --> 07:29:28,000
We lost that one, right?

3114
07:29:28,000 --> 07:29:30,000
That got overturned.

3115
07:29:30,000 --> 07:29:35,000
And, you know, our role tonight is not to retry that in another form, right?

3116
07:29:35,000 --> 07:29:37,000
Just because we don't like it, right?

3117
07:29:37,000 --> 07:29:40,000
Where we live in a society governed by the rule of law.

3118
07:29:40,000 --> 07:29:45,000
And that means that now and then when even when you don't like it,

3119
07:29:45,000 --> 07:29:47,000
it comes to the rules.

3120
07:29:47,000 --> 07:29:53,000
And so, I look at this, you know, from that site plan criteria and the piece that I heard tonight

3121
07:29:53,000 --> 07:29:57,000
that I found the most interesting was regarding the water course,

3122
07:29:57,000 --> 07:30:00,000
but now I hear from clearly from the solicitor.

3123
07:30:00,000 --> 07:30:30,000
I can't, I can't weigh that, right? That's Department of Environment, right? When that eventually comes, that's not something I can consider, because of everything I heard tonight, that was the piece that was like, you know, just looking at that Google image, imagery is like, this has changed. That is different. But that does not my role tonight to decide on that, right? That goes over to the province. So with that in mind, I also, I can't support the appeal. I can't do it from a place of, it does,

3124
07:30:30,000 --> 07:30:57,000
it's no good as a body, as a government here, to, you know, vote for things that we know will get overturned, and let that be done elsewhere, because every time we do that, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we tell on ourselves is being on serious, we have to at times make the hard decisions, even when they're not popular, even if we don't like them, because that is what,

3125
07:30:57,000 --> 07:31:21,000
we're bound by on the, you know, our process and under the rule law. And so I find myself, I don't want this facility. I would, if you're, if I had, if this was a public area in a zoning, I would vote as I did before, but that's not what we are doing tonight. And so I can't vote for the appeal. I'm afraid. Thank you.

3126
07:31:21,000 --> 07:31:33,000
Councilor Councillor Dakele-Gamman. Thank you, Deputy Mayor, Madam Chair. It's hard when you agree with everybody and both sides of a conversation.

3127
07:31:33,000 --> 07:31:46,000
I think that, you know, this stuff did their job well. I think that the, the, the, the people that came forward, they did their homework too, and they did bring some really good science,

3128
07:31:46,000 --> 07:31:54,000
and some really good evidence to say that there are issues here, and we know that we can't change the Supreme Court decision.

3129
07:31:54,000 --> 07:32:08,000
But what we can do is figure out how do we mitigate as much as we can that this facility that we know that we can't change, but we can mitigate as much as we can to protect the community.

3130
07:32:08,000 --> 07:32:18,000
And so, you know, when you say, Mr. Traves, you said, was there enough evidence presented to say that there was enough changes made?

3131
07:32:18,000 --> 07:32:31,000
So for me, there wasn't enough evidence. I think that there was evidence that came from the people who spoke the appeal and that said there could be something different.

3132
07:32:31,000 --> 07:32:41,000
That could have been done. I, I don't think that the changes to the fence are enough. I do think that that there is when we look at the site plan. I don't think that that's enough.

3133
07:32:41,000 --> 07:32:54,000
I think that it's unclear about in terms of the site plan, the location where the vegetation and the buffer zones are all of those things.

3134
07:32:54,000 --> 07:33:09,000
I really don't feel like I have enough evidence to make a decision to say, you know, don't allow the appeal. So I will vote to allow the appeal. Thank you.

3135
07:33:09,000 --> 07:33:11,000
Thank you.

3136
07:33:11,000 --> 07:33:18,000
No further comments. I'll, if I may.

3137
07:33:18,000 --> 07:33:40,000
So I'm in agreement with Councillor dagelagaman. I don't feel that there has been enough evidence presented to convince me that the changes to the screening are doing what they are required to do, which is to minimize the land use impacts on the adjoining lands.

3138
07:33:40,000 --> 07:34:04,000
I'm not convinced that, you know, the, the buffers, the additional fence height, the mapping of the witted areas are accurate. I don't, the evidence doesn't convince me of that from the, from the documents in the report.

3139
07:34:04,000 --> 07:34:30,000
Because evidence was also presented that showed contradictory information. So I, looking at all the evidence that was presented here tonight, I will have to approve the appeal. I am, I am not, I'm not convinced either. Thank you.

3140
07:34:30,000 --> 07:34:33,000
Okay, with that is our call.

3141
07:34:33,000 --> 07:34:36,000
Wait.

3142
07:34:36,000 --> 07:34:41,000
Councillor, sorry, Councillor Austin, go ahead.

3143
07:34:41,000 --> 07:34:56,000
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to clarify for council, because I thought I heard our solicitor say, you know, if we allow the appeal, we have to provide reasons for why, right?

3144
07:34:56,000 --> 07:35:02,000
Like, we have to actually say, like, what the, what specific criteria.

3145
07:35:02,000 --> 07:35:06,000
No, we've heard, we've heard the debate, the debate is on that.

3146
07:35:06,000 --> 07:35:08,000
I think it, that's a piece of vision.

3147
07:35:08,000 --> 07:35:10,000
Okay. Thank you.

3148
07:35:12,000 --> 07:35:20,000
Okay. The question has been called. We're now going to vote electronically on the matter.

3149
07:35:26,000 --> 07:35:50,000
Okay. So the appeal is denied.

3150
07:35:50,000 --> 07:36:06,000
With that, I'd like to thank staff, the appellant, the applicant, and council for a thoughtful and I feel thorough discussion this evening about this case.

3151
07:36:06,000 --> 07:36:13,000
And with that, I think we are ready to adjourn. So is there a motion to adjourn?

3152
07:36:13,000 --> 07:36:16,000
I saw councilor Kent there first.

3153
07:36:16,000 --> 07:36:19,000
We are adjourned. Thank you.

3154
07:36:43,000 --> 07:36:53,000
Thank you.

3155
07:37:13,000 --> 07:37:34,000
Thank you.