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Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to our special council meeting that we're having, and I know there's a lot of people online as well, so I would like to start off our meeting with our land acknowledgment, and that is that we would like to begin by acknowledging that the land on which we gather is part of the treaty and territory the Mississaugas of the credit.

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Are there any disclosures of pecuniary interest, conflict of interest,

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that the records show that there isn't?

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We do have a lot of delegations, well, get into the delegations a little later on.

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But first I would like our acting CAO, Chris Mills, to say some opening remarks.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

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As we do have a lot of delegations, I will be very brief.

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I just wanted to start by saying that this report that you have in front of you is a culmination

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of hundreds of hours of staff time in meetings, doing research, reviewing, material, and writing,

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ultimately the report. And I've seen firsthand how much work has been put into this, and I

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personally want to thank John, Bronwyn, and the entire policy team for their dedication and hard work

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on this file.

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The planners have an obligation to consider a wide range of inputs and also

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the legislative framework that they work under and ultimately is set by the province.

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So this process that we have in front of us today is very much a top-down process in which

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the province has set very specific population and employment targets for Hulten region

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which then needs to be distributed to the local municipalities and one of their obligations

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as professional planners is to ensure that they are meeting those objectives.

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In my opinion, this report balances the need to provide housing and employment through both

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intensification and a modest green field expansion. And it would also see significant

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wait belt lands stay within the agricultural system to 2051. So with those opening remarks,

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Mr. Mayor, I know John has a few things to say and then we will start with the presentation.

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So thank you, Mr. Mayor and good afternoon, good afternoon to members of Council and all the delegates.

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So as Chris alluded to, we do have our report before you this afternoon dealing with the Halt and

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region official plan review and the five growth concepts that the region has developed that

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look to see how growth could be distributed amongst the four local municipalities to

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the 2051 planning horizon. We thought though before hearing from the various stakeholder

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delegations this afternoon as well as before council considers our report, we thought it would

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be helpful if Mr. Lowe's from SGL planning could provide a recap of some of the key points

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that were included in his June 21st presentation at the Special Counsel workshop.

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As a reminder, Mr. Lowe's is an experienced land use planner who does do a considerable

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amount of planning work throughout the greater Golden Horseshoe, and he is the lead on the

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South East Georgetown secondary planning exercise that is now underway.

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With that, I will now call upon Mr. Lowe's from SGL, again to do a recap.

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Thank you.

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Good

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afternoon and welcome Mr. Lowe's good

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afternoon Mr. Lowe's good afternoon

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sorry I was having audio audio problems I'm not connected we've all been

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they were believe me I couldn't I couldn't hear anything you were saying so I

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know I'm not connected we're just gonna show you my screen and I'll start the

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presentation if that's what they Mr. Mayor yep that's fine thank you

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we all see it

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Yes, we can.

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Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

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So, I'm going to do, Mr. Lindhurk, probably indicated, I'm going to do an abbreviated presentation

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from the presentation that I gave at the Council Workshop, just as a refresher to Council.

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I'll be trying to be fairly grateful.

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We saw a few slides to go through, but I'll go through them a little quicker just to give you a refresher and a little bit shorter of a presentation.

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So, I want to talk about eight themes, I'll give an overview of the Houghton Regions

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IGMS.

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I'll discuss the farmland, mounts in Houghton Hills and the implications for farmland.

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I'll go over the intensification implications, employment implications, discuss briefly

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community facility implications, I'll turn over to Watson Associates to talk about the

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financial implications, and I'll summarize with some key takeaways and just highlight the

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next steps for the halton region process.

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So in terms of the IGMSO overview, as we all know, and I'm sure you all know, there are

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four options with a fifth called Concept3B, just very brief overview of those four options,

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which are called concepts, I should say. Concept 1 calls for a 60% densification and a

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moderate greenfield expansion. Now, others are probably wondering what

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does densification mean. And in the region's work, densification means it's

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means 50%, which is generally held constant through the concepts. 50% of all

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growth will occur as intensification within the built-up area and the built-up

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area as the area the province defines as what was built upon when the growth plan first came into

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effect in July of 2006. Then the additional densification occurs the other 10% in terms of what

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concept one occurs in the designated greenfield area and the designated greenfield area means the

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the area that was vacant in your urban area in 2006.

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Some of that has since been built, such as self-George now.

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50% of all residential growth is going into your build-up area, and a 10% additional growth beyond

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what is already planned will go into your designated greenfield area. And you see at the bottom

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of that slide under concept one, that 10% additional is generally all apartments that will

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go into your designated greenfield area, so 10% of all units will go into your designated greenfield

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area. So I just wanted to provide those overall concepts. Concept 2 is 70%

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densification, so a higher densification. Only half the amount of the new

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community doesn't agree in field areas. Concept 1 and 17% of all units will be

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apartments as densification in your existing designated green field area.

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Concept 3 has 80% densification with a smaller employment expansion. No

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community expansion, I should maybe just clarify what community expansion means.

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That means land for residential, commercial, institutional land,

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climate expansion means

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more traditional employment areas.

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So there are no community area expansion and concept three but there would be a small employment

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expansion.

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Concept three B is no employment expansion or community area expansion and 24% of all units

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would be through a densification in the designated Greenfield area after 2031.

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Concept 4 is 50% densification, very low densification in existing designated Greenfield area,

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and has the largest share of both community areas and employment areas.

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Just briefly, we'll go through each of those concepts.

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Concept one, as I said, which is 50% of all new housing in the build-up area.

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The graph, I think, shows the graph.

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A donut.

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The more clearly, you see the build-up areas in the blue.

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The existing doesn't have green field areas.

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So these are lands that are already within your urban boundary.

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These are lands. I'm going to turn off my camera just because it's showing as a little

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unstable so hopefully everybody can see and hear me. The build-up area is there in blue.

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As I said, the orange is the existing Desi Greenfield area. So that's existing lands within

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your existing community. This includes vision, Georgetown, both East Georgetown, Stuarttown,

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on all those areas that are yet to develop.

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And so that's why you see 29% of the future growth

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of current those areas that are yet to be developed.

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7% would be additional high density units

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in the existing designated green field area.

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And you might say Paul, why is it 7% less than 10%?

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Well the pie chart is looking at everything

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growth from now to 2051.

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Whereas the densification is occurring from 2031 to 2051.

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So 10% from 2031 to 2051.

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When you take it from all the housing growth

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from 2021, the overall percentage drops slightly.

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And then you see that the yellow is a new designated greenfield area of 14%.

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Results in at the bottom, you see the resulting expansion, employment expansion of about 680

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hectares, which is actually slightly greater than option 4, and community area expansion

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of 740 hectares.

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When you look at the overall pie, and I'll show these pies for each option, overall pies

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174,000 new households from 2021 to 2021 have to be accommodated in the region as a whole, of course.

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And slightly more than half of those would be an apartment. The other less than half would be

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ground-related, which includes singles, detached homes, semi-attached homes, townhouses,

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anything as walk-up, accessory apartments are all ground-related, so it's a large grouping of them.

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And we see the expansion areas in the color of the orange as the community and the dark

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blue as the employment area.

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The orange community area represents about two vision Georgetown's.

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If you could put that into perspective.

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And then you can see the blue as an addition to the premier gateway and up along Winston

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Churchill.

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So, on sub two, we see again looking at the donut graph, slightly more than 50% is intensification

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in your buildup area, 30% sure existing greenfield areas, again vision Georgetown, Southeast

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Georgetown, slightly more additional greenfield, high density apartment units in your designated

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greenfield area, and 8% would be a new greenfield area, so that new expansion would be slightly

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smaller.

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And if you remember the last workshop I talked about is where those additional high-density

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apartment units can go and your dozen greenfield area and your dozen greenfield area is not

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that large and vision Georgetown has been appealed to the OLT, it's got about a thousand units

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and that it would be additional, mostly additional to that and since it's been appealed there's

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not a lot of opportunity to reopen that.

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So as I presented the last workshop, really, the only opportunity you have is on existing

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commercial areas and the only person area you have in your designated Greenfield areas,

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the one at Mountain D Road and Argyle between Argyle and Dambi.

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So that's really limited opportunities to come at additional units that you show in gray

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additional high density.

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For this expansion, you see that the employment expansion is about 500 hectares at the bottom

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for Holton Hills and the communities is smaller at 330 hectares. Again, looking at the chart

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on household units, now getting mostly about two thirds would be apartment units. One third

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would be ground generally, one third ground related units. And we see the expansion again.

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And orange, these are just potential locations, not the final location for any of these options.

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for the orange and the dark blue in employment.

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And this orange represents generally one,

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same size as one vision george town.

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Concept three, we see with the 30% densification,

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we see that it's like the over 50% on the

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demonic graph is intensification of the build area

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between 2021 and 2021.

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30% of your existing doesn't even feel there.

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16% of that pie gets larger on the additional high density units in your existing designated greenfield area and no additional community expansion lands.

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So you see at the bottom 450 hectares for employment and zero hectares for community and in home hills.

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and we can see in the pie chart where the housing

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household units grow, gain the apartment units are getting

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pie across the whole region, getting larger,

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almost up to three quarters of their world housing units.

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Little more than a quarter would be the ground-related

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housing units.

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And these are new units, I should read.

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And then this map just shows where the potential

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for the employment could go in the dark blue

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and no community expansion lands.

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three B is is similar to three except except that there's no employment expansion. So all the part

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the graphs are the same numbers are the same except for a zero employment growth and you see no

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expansion for employment in this map. Lastly concept four is 50 percent of intensification so that's what

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With the growth plan requires, there is no additional, a very small amount of, as you

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see, 2% additional high density in the dozen greenfield area.

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Slightly less than 30% are existing dozen greenfield area, and 20% would be new units

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in your expanded community lands for settlement expansion, and you see at the bottom, 670 hectares

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for employment, which is slightly smaller than option one, and the largest amount of community

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lands, it's almost 1,400 hectares.

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We see in this chart that slightly less than 50% are apartments and slightly more than

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50% are ground related housing units.

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And this map shows where those expansion areas could go, and just to give you a context that

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Orange area, the community expansion area represents about three almost four vision

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Georgetowns and then the employment area gained along the premier gateway and up along Winston

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Churchill.

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So just to give a little idea what the housing means and I want to talk and I talked about

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at the council workshop about the shift in market is required to just to meet the growth

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plan and additional shift in some of these options.

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And this graph in that the table is really useful because this is from Hempson's land

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needs assessment that they've done for the region.

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And we see that the market-based baseline forecast, which what that means is market-based

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baseline forecast, it means that if all things are equal, if people could just choose what

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type of housing they wanted to live in, this is what the percentage of ground-related

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versus apartments would mean. That would mean that about a quarter of all new units would

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be apartment buildings, three quarters would be ground related. That's without any

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policy shift, but just to achieve 50% intensification, you see that there's a significant shift required

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in people's housing preferences to get up to 50% intensification. And the graph at the

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bottom, start showing that in terms of percentages of what's required for the build-up area, the

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dark orange is in the build-up area, so that's the intensification, and that's the amount of

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apartments required in the build-up area, I should say the percentage of apartments.

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So you see that most of the moving forward, most of your intensification, this is region-wide,

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most intensification region-wide would be in apartments, generally around 90% would be of the units

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would be apartments in the build-up area through intensification.

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And a little higher shift is required in concepts 2 and 3, then the yellow shows the amount

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of apartment percentage of all units in the designated green field area.

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So this is the densification shift, and you'll see that that ranges from fairly low on option

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option 4, about 10%, moving up to almost 40% of all new units and additional units in

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the doesn't green field area being apartment, so you're looking at 40% in concept 3.

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So quite the significant shift particularly to achieve the additional densification in

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the doesn't green field area.

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This table and graph shows the implication for halton hills itself, the former was for

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or Hulton region, and the tables, the graph is broken down by the different geographic areas.

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So the blue on the graph is the existing delta area, which is where the intensification

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goes. The orange is existing designated greenfield areas, so Vision Georgetown, Southeast Georgetown.

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The gray is the additional high density development in the current designated greenfield area,

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and then the yellow is a new doesn't agree with the area.

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And so with this, the two bars are showing

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as the units that are going into ground related

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then units and apartments.

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And you can see that the majority of the build-up area

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is apartments in the Hilton Hills.

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There's a little bit of ground related

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that can still be accommodated through intensification

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in your build-up area.

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But the majority of that will be apartments slightly higher

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in Concepts 2 and 3. Your existing designated greenfield area is primarily ground-related.

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It's not all singles, it's singles, townhouses, accessory apartments.

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And then you see the difference in the gray, which is the additional high-density apartments required

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in the designated greenfield area. So you see it's larger in Concept 2 and Concept 3 overall.

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and then you see the the orange the light yellow is a different amount of new

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community lands primarily again ground related so that's for your community

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expansion areas.

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I just want to talk briefly before we move to the next section

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about compact development and development of new communities. Your green

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development standards have noted there's opportunities for development of low

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carbon communities in greenfield areas. So it doesn't mean that new greenfield areas cannot be

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developed such that they are

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carbon low carbon areas. And the concept really for new greenfield areas is to try to achieve

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a 15 minute neighborhood. What does that mean? You say, oh, well, what it means is really the

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ability to get all your daily needs. And I mean, daily, so that's getting milk, going to go

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restaurant, going to recreation, going to your schools, get those daily needs within 15

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minute walk of your house. That means a compact transit supportive development. And this type

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of development in a greenfield setting can address their climate change impacts.

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Can some significantly reduce climate change? It's more transit supportive. It requires

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more compact development, but also requires making sure we have those community uses,

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We'll play in a mixed-use setting that are walkable to residents.

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And achieving this type of development at the region's target of 65 persons and jobs

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per hectare can achieve that 15-minute neighborhood.

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It's just an area just to touch on if you recall away at the workshop we worked on farmland

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We have this graphic showing.

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Which I'll accommodate, but occupies about 30% of Houghton Hills. 23% is Whitebelt area, which

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is the gray, which I think is the last time we should be white. We didn't fix it, but that's

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the Whitebelt area. People say, what is Whitebelt area? Well, Whitebelt area is commonly referred

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to a planning term referred to as areas outside the urban area and outside the Greenbelt. So it doesn't

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have the restrictions of the Greenbelt or the Oak Ridge or the Marine or the Niagara Scarman. It's

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just farmland outside the urban area.

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So 83% total is total rural agricultural areas

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in Holton Hills.

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15% is your urban area made up of acting in Georgetown

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and then additional 2% is near Gwendolyn's area.

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We look at what the means in terms of the concepts.

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We see that the total white belt,

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looking first at the white belt area,

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total white belt areas, about 6,400 hectares.

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So the amount remaining in the white belt

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is shown in the second row for each of the concepts.

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So ranges from concept 4, almost 70% of the white belt

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area would be remaining up to, of course, concept 3B

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with no expansion, 100% of the white belt area

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will remain outside the urban areas

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part of the white belt.

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And looking at what these concepts mean in terms

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of the overall size of a potent hills,

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we can see in the last row, the concept 4

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occupies about 7%, concept 1, about 5%, concept 2, 3%, concept 3, about 1.6%.

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So concept 2 and 3 are one slightly larger than, oh well, anyway, they're about the same, one's slightly larger than the middle.

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So now I just wanted to go over quickly on the intensification implications.

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The Hemson did a work for you back in 2019, it was a market assessment, and they found

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that intensification in the last five years, 2016-21, averaged about 100 units per year.

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And we compared that to the official plant target of 5,100 units by 2031, they indicated

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that target is unlikely to be achieved, just because the intensification target in the

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past five years hasn't been as strong as it was originally anticipated. The HEMS and

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IGMS has looked at, of course, for this report, is identified need for 50% intensification,

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and so that will require much more intensive development. And that averages to achieve the

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intensification in either the concepts for HALT and HILLs require somewhere between

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225 units per year starting in 2021 to 2021. If that's a little slower to start with,

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then it means the later years will need even higher number of units per year. So we're

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looking at a doubling of what the average has been for the last five years. This is going

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to require a significant shift in the pattern of housing choice. And I'm going to go over

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that just a little bit here.

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And just to look at, that was the overall intensification and just

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breaking it down by apartments. We can see the top graph is the apartment completions in

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Halton region which have fluctuated quite substantially. But the second graph shows the ones in

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Halton Hills. And really, there's only been two apartment developments in the last 10 years that

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that have occurred in the, in the build up areas,

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intensification and whole nils.

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That's 109 units, which averages about 11 units per year.

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And if you can, that, that is about,

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see the picture of Amical, that's slightly less than 100 units.

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So what we're, what we're looking for in the future

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is a 200 with when you add in the amount of apartment units

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00:34:13,180 --> 00:34:16,780
is required in the, doesn't a green field area,

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you're looking at a requirement for about 220 to 300 units per year depending on the four concepts.

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So that's about two to three Amico's developments per year, every year from 2021 to 2021.

300
00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:41,700
And if we look at what the preference has been in the completions, what we've seen in the past

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00:34:41,700 --> 00:34:49,840
number of years for housing completions, the donut graph on the left and the chart on

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00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:57,320
the right, show that the vast majority of your housing completions since 2011, so almost

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this is data up to 2019, so a few years previous, but almost 10 years worth of data, shows

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that almost three quarters of the housing completion have been for singles and semis, a little

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00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:21,600
over 20% for a row, so that's townhouse, and apartments about 6%, that's remained fairly

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constant over the last 20 years, what the difference is what you've seen slightly is a slightly

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increasing amount for rows and townhouses, and apartments is actually slightly declined

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in this time period. And we look at where people want to live or just looking at, for instance,

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looking at apartments. We see a crossholt and the pie chart on the top left hand side. And what it

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shows in the medium color blue, the 29% are one family household. So these are who are living in

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apartments in 2016. So 29% were 1% households. 16% in the green were a non-family 2% households.

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That's two people unrelated living together. 47. So almost half were 2% households. This might be

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a couple that are married. It might be a single parent and a one child. And so the 50% are 2% households.

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and then the darkest blue is 8% are family households of three-plus-person households.

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So it could be parents and one child, more than one child. And then if we compare that

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to the growth, the pie charts, the bottom of the page, we see that the growth of households,

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almost 40% will be family households. So that, if we're thinking of the amount of apartments,

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we need to achieve and some of those earlier graphs that showed 50% to almost 75% of the new dwelling units

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from 2021 to 2021 will be apartments. Shows there's going to be a significant shift in the

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preferences of families to live in apartments. And I ran through with you some of the cost

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implications of that at the workshop in that apartment construction is more expensive than townhouses

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for instance, and you get a smaller amount of floor area in apartment than in a townhouse

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with the same price. So there's that implication that has to be addressed.

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And this table just summarizes the amount of apartments and intensification that's required

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00:37:39,740 --> 00:37:49,260
in Hilton Hills. We see for each of the concepts ranges from about 6,300 total units for intensification

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in concept 4, up to 6,700 in concept 3, and then shows the amount of apartments after that,

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the amount that has to be apartments. We see a range is from about 77% in concept.

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One of those intensification, I have to be apartments up to 83 and 84% of all the intensification units

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after the apartments in concept 2 and 3. So the IGMS intensification rates will require

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aggressive redevelopment of sites to achieve these intensification targets and aggressive

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change in people's housing preferences to get more families into apartments.

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So it's going to be a challenge on any of the concepts, really.

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So I just wanted to cover off briefly the employment implications that we discussed at the workshop.

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We see this is from Watson's Employment Land Needs Study that the end of took for the

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municipality. We see that many manufacturing and

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significant employment categories, employment

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land demand is really driven by both manufacturing and logistics and get into

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that a little bit in the next slides.

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And Watson identified that North

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Holtman is really best suited to accommodate that sector,

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that North Holtman being Holtman Hills and

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Milton, particularly along the highway 401 corridor.

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The knowledge-based or creative class economies are also in demand and a growing end-demand.

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But when you look at that in terms of major office, South Houghton is best suited to accommodate

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the major office development, and I'll go through that, too.

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So from the 2011 to 2019, period Watson identified that Houghton region accommodated one-fifth

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of the overall DJ industrial development, so very strong industrial sector in Houghton

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00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:51,840
region. And the employment lands really provide the opportunity for export-based employment.

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And export-based employment is very important. It really helps feed an economy.

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00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,480
And those export-based jobs really need to be accommodated employment lands. They're

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quite attracted to areas along the 400 series highways. They can't be accommodated, for instance,

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in the MTSA or downtowns. That's more for office development. And Watson also identified that

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advanced manufacturing requires fairly integrated campus style settings, which integrate their

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office, their warehouse, their manufacturing, their training, all in one building or a series

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of buildings. And those require a fairly significant area of greenfield lands.

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They also

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identify logistics. Goods movement is evolving. We all know that with e-commerce.

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Frankly, employment lands in the GTA have actually been on fire the last couple of years.

359
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There is such a need for employment lands. It's driven by logistics, also driven by employment.

360
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,020
and they require a large tracts of land.

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00:41:03,380 --> 00:41:07,720
The 400 series locations are what they're seeking.

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And these are not the same old warehouses

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with very low employment that you saw in previous years.

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These logistics operations that have sort of involved

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00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:19,320
any commerce have a fairly significant employment

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function to them.

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As they move the goods through very quickly,

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it's not like a whole store if we saw them

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warehoses in the past. Nonetheless, your economic development staff, through their foreign

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00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:40,620
direct investment strategy, their economic development tourism strategy, are looking

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00:41:40,620 --> 00:41:45,460
at other industries to attract as well, high density, high employment industries to attract

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00:41:45,460 --> 00:41:53,580
to your primary gateway. And they also, Watson noted that there, and Hemson did, too, in their

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IGMS work, that there's limited opportunities to increase intensification of employment

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land in Holton Hills.

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In terms of the office market, 9 million square feet of office development

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00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:14,390
is located in Holton region. 97% of that is in the south part of the region along the

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00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:21,590
QDW corridor. The demand for office development, though, is in the last 10 years as shifted

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to downtown. It's been office growth and the downtown has been very strong and compared

379
00:42:27,570 --> 00:42:33,630
to the outer GTA. Now that may change with the pandemic, and we may see more office development

380
00:42:33,630 --> 00:42:38,350
being located closer to home. We'll have to see how that pans out, but that has been the

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00:42:38,350 --> 00:42:45,770
trend for the last 10 years. But we've also seen office development in the past decade in

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00:42:45,770 --> 00:42:53,930
Holton region in more low and mid-rise scale developments in our employment areas. It's really

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where the vast majority of office growth has occurred is in the employment lands and

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00:42:59,490 --> 00:43:02,490
these pictures are just a couple of examples of office development.

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00:43:02,710 --> 00:43:08,750
These are standalone office or they're integrated in multipurpose buildings with manufacturing

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00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:10,930
or warehouse operations attached to the building.

387
00:43:13,190 --> 00:43:20,230
The MTSAs, I should clarify for the public MTSAs are major transit station areas, so areas

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00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:26,710
around, for instance, the GO stations. Those have potential for some office development,

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00:43:26,730 --> 00:43:32,550
but it's relatively limited. We're just going to see those more go to around the major

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00:43:32,550 --> 00:43:37,370
transition areas, the GO station locations, down in Oakville and Burlington.

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00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:42,130
So, in terms

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of the need, Watson concluded that there's a need for additional employment lands. They

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00:43:51,630 --> 00:43:57,430
identify there's a little less 400 net hectares. This is not gross. Some of the other members

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00:43:57,430 --> 00:44:02,550
here are grossment net hectares. Designate available employment lands in the municipality.

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00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:05,830
Most

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00:44:05,830 --> 00:44:12,350
of that is located in the premier gateway. However, there's only approximately 100 gross

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00:44:12,350 --> 00:44:17,230
hectares shovel ready. When we teach shovel ready, that means they're serviced. Somebody can

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00:44:17,230 --> 00:44:23,510
the industry can come in right now and get a building permit and build. So that's a significant

399
00:44:23,510 --> 00:44:30,290
impediment on getting more employment growth is really need to improve that so we're ready to

400
00:44:30,290 --> 00:44:39,110
supply. And Watson identified that the employment needs over the next, they looked as to 2041,

401
00:44:39,810 --> 00:44:45,250
but they identified that significant exceeds supply and they updated their numbers to be

402
00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:51,010
approximately 445 gross hectares are required to 2051 and that compared you see

403
00:45:01,740 --> 00:45:11,740
So, both HEMS and Watson are fairly consistent on that lower end of the range of HEMS' number of what's required to 2051.

404
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:29,950
And just lastly on the employment, we need to discuss the implications of where the employment is and where people live. Because that's a big driver commuting is a big impact on climate change. And we see in this,

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00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:36,570
um, uh, graph that 42% of the labor force is commuting outside of

406
00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:42,130
fault and hills for work. Um, that's, that's significantly higher, um, than

407
00:45:42,130 --> 00:45:46,390
the Ontario average. It's actually lower than Milton, but, uh, it's still

408
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:51,650
quite high. And what we need to look at is how do we try and

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00:45:51,650 --> 00:45:55,790
and provide more jobs so there's more live work opportunity and

410
00:45:55,790 --> 00:45:59,010
in a municipality, that can help reduce climate change.

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00:45:59,330 --> 00:46:02,190
So when we look, during these large scale planning,

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00:46:02,230 --> 00:46:05,750
we need to think about that out when we provide more jobs

413
00:46:06,450 --> 00:46:08,470
so that people live in our community

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00:46:08,470 --> 00:46:09,450
can work in our community.

415
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:13,090
Now, we're always being part of a large metropolitan area.

416
00:46:13,350 --> 00:46:15,390
You're always going to have people commuting

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00:46:15,390 --> 00:46:16,750
over the board, people commuting

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00:46:16,750 --> 00:46:18,130
into Holt and Hills commuting out.

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00:46:18,690 --> 00:46:20,250
But the more we provide more jobs,

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00:46:20,490 --> 00:46:22,270
the more we can try and get that number down,

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00:46:22,410 --> 00:46:24,310
which can address climate change.

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00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:30,870
Lastly, before I turn it over to Watson, just want to briefly touch on community facility

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implications.

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And if we recall, I talked about this at the Council workshop.

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There's going to be a number of community facilities needs.

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00:46:38,970 --> 00:46:46,830
You have communities now, even if you don't grow at all, but any growth, both intensification

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00:46:47,690 --> 00:46:51,670
or new expansions going to require more community facilities.

428
00:46:51,670 --> 00:46:56,610
These include community centers, schools, parks, hospitals.

429
00:46:58,190 --> 00:47:03,090
There's a difficulty in cost of finding sites and already developed areas.

430
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:07,550
As you're aware, your parks department is looking for another town-wide park.

431
00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:10,710
Just to meet your demand to 2031.

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00:47:11,490 --> 00:47:14,670
They'll likely have to be accommodated outside your existing urban area.

433
00:47:15,610 --> 00:47:21,570
The new hospital is identified that they're going to need a new redeveloped hospital.

434
00:47:21,570 --> 00:47:26,590
likely that won't occur on existing site and they need to look outside Georgetown

435
00:47:26,590 --> 00:47:33,910
current boundary for a hospital site and even with people looking at

436
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:40,110
option three or two or three where we're looking at increased intensification

437
00:47:40,110 --> 00:47:44,710
we've seen through the pandemic the significant need for Parkland for people

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00:47:44,710 --> 00:47:49,450
live in apartments and the increase in amount of apartments we're going to need to

439
00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:54,710
provide more parkland. And that's difficult to provide parkland in an already developed area.

440
00:47:55,290 --> 00:47:59,990
And it's just not small parks. It's, you know, if we're getting more families living in

441
00:48:01,150 --> 00:48:05,950
intensification and apartments, we're going to need to provide family-related parkland,

442
00:48:06,250 --> 00:48:09,410
which is play structures, which is recreation facilities.

443
00:48:11,740 --> 00:48:13,020
So with that, I'm going to turn it over

444
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:16,520
to Jamie Cook to go through to start with financial implications.

445
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:20,750
Great. Thanks, Paul.

446
00:48:20,750 --> 00:48:22,790
and good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, members of Council.

447
00:48:23,810 --> 00:48:27,890
As Paul mentioned, I'm going to provide a brief overview of the results of our fiscal

448
00:48:27,890 --> 00:48:33,410
impact analysis that we carried out in the winter of 2021 of this year.

449
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:37,990
My colleague Andrew Grund is going to speak to the actual results of the fiscal impacts.

450
00:48:38,190 --> 00:48:42,750
I'm going to just provide a bit of a broad overview of the three growth concepts that we looked

451
00:48:42,750 --> 00:48:44,950
at and exploring the fiscal impacts.

452
00:48:45,990 --> 00:48:50,690
So just to recap on some of the information that was provided to the workshop on the

453
00:48:50,690 --> 00:48:57,670
later last month. We provided three overall growth scenarios. The first was growth

454
00:48:57,670 --> 00:49:03,050
scenario one, which was derived from Halton, the Halton IGMS concept three. So this

455
00:49:03,050 --> 00:49:10,370
scenario considers no future residential expansion, or employment area

456
00:49:10,370 --> 00:49:16,530
expansion. It's a residential intensification focused scenario. So no future urban

457
00:49:16,530 --> 00:49:17,710
expansion of this scenario.

458
00:49:18,370 --> 00:49:23,010
Scenario 2 is derived from Halt9GMS Concept 2.

459
00:49:24,050 --> 00:49:30,270
So this option also explores a residential intensification focus, but it does allow for

460
00:49:30,270 --> 00:49:35,230
a limited greenfield expansion in the community area of Georgetown.

461
00:49:36,230 --> 00:49:41,910
It's approximately about 330 hectares of additional community area land that would be planned

462
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:47,110
in this area, and as Paul mentioned, community areas would reflect residential and mixed

463
00:49:47,110 --> 00:49:53,430
use areas, but not employment area. There is also the employment area expansion that's

464
00:49:53,430 --> 00:50:01,890
anticipated within this scenario. Again, in keeping with the IGMS concept, and in this case,

465
00:50:02,010 --> 00:50:10,670
it's more reflective of concept 3a. Through our FIA analysis, we took a look at the work that we

466
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:15,670
conducted back in 2020 through the employment land strategy and we updated that work with

467
00:50:15,670 --> 00:50:20,890
respect to the land needs for employment land within Halton Hills and we've identified

468
00:50:20,890 --> 00:50:26,030
a need for about 445 hectares of additional land which again is fairly consistent with

469
00:50:26,030 --> 00:50:33,170
concept 3a and concept 2 when we compare that back to the IGMS and then lastly we looked

470
00:50:33,170 --> 00:50:40,410
at a hybrid scenario under growth scenario 3 this scenario is a hybrid of 1 and 2 so in

471
00:50:40,410 --> 00:50:45,730
In this scenario, we have a residential intensification focus, again with no community area expansion,

472
00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:50,990
but we did consider in a planetary expansion consistent with scenario two under this scenario.

473
00:50:51,230 --> 00:50:58,010
So again, we'd be looking at about 445 or 450 roughly hectares of additional employment

474
00:50:58,010 --> 00:50:58,370
lands.

475
00:50:58,830 --> 00:50:59,810
Just a couple of themes.

476
00:51:00,030 --> 00:51:03,230
I just wanted to just reiterate with these three concepts.

477
00:51:03,750 --> 00:51:08,450
One is on the issue of housing choice and affordability, and Paul's spent quite a

478
00:51:08,450 --> 00:51:10,310
at a time that accounts a workshop

479
00:51:10,310 --> 00:51:11,990
and today just talking about this,

480
00:51:12,330 --> 00:51:15,510
just want to re-emphasize that each of the scenarios,

481
00:51:15,830 --> 00:51:18,170
the intensification forecasts are ambitious,

482
00:51:19,150 --> 00:51:21,730
and under our analysis that we conducted,

483
00:51:21,930 --> 00:51:24,470
would be rather difficult to achieve

484
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:26,310
relative to historical trends

485
00:51:26,310 --> 00:51:28,690
and anticipate market demand for intensification.

486
00:51:28,970 --> 00:51:33,350
So in the absence of future greenfield expansion

487
00:51:33,350 --> 00:51:37,550
and understand there's one and two, these options, sorry,

488
00:51:37,730 --> 00:51:39,910
snare is one and three, these options would provide less

489
00:51:39,910 --> 00:51:42,730
opportunity for grade related housing forms over the long

490
00:51:42,730 --> 00:51:46,410
term. That's important to provide those options to, again,

491
00:51:46,530 --> 00:51:50,090
to accommodate market demand anticipated within the family

492
00:51:50,090 --> 00:51:53,330
demographic component that we would anticipate to be

493
00:51:53,330 --> 00:51:57,310
accommodating over the next several decades. So it's important

494
00:51:57,310 --> 00:52:00,690
for the town to accommodate a broad range of housing options

495
00:52:01,570 --> 00:52:08,350
across all forms of housing structures to accommodate all anticipated residents by income

496
00:52:08,350 --> 00:52:09,030
and age group.

497
00:52:10,420 --> 00:52:15,170
It's also important to note that providing more high-density housing is not necessarily

498
00:52:15,170 --> 00:52:18,350
a solution to solving affordability challenges.

499
00:52:19,010 --> 00:52:24,210
More work would need to be done to look at the type and tenure of those units.

500
00:52:25,390 --> 00:52:28,390
More emphasis would be need to be placed on purpose-built rental housing.

501
00:52:28,390 --> 00:52:34,030
and more emphasis would be needs to be placed on smaller units that are more affordable which

502
00:52:34,030 --> 00:52:38,790
also poses some challenges with respect to accommodating families which would require more space

503
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:45,390
and more bedrooms. Just one last point to point out with respect to complete communities and climate

504
00:52:45,390 --> 00:52:46,310
change resiliency.

505
00:52:48,410 --> 00:52:53,590
When we look at scenarios one and three, and particularly scenario three, these

506
00:52:53,590 --> 00:52:57,490
This area has provided, in my opinion, the last opportunity for more complete and balanced

507
00:52:57,490 --> 00:52:58,070
communities.

508
00:52:58,770 --> 00:53:07,590
Again, with the challenges of achieving that level of intensification, even with a strong

509
00:53:07,590 --> 00:53:14,530
demand for intensification, if there's no additional community area lands provided, it would

510
00:53:14,530 --> 00:53:19,910
put more pressure on intermuting into the employment areas in existing and potential

511
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:25,030
expansionaries in the primary gateway area which obviously from a climate change resiliency

512
00:53:25,030 --> 00:53:31,410
perspective would not be a desirable outcome. So I would just conclude that scenario 2 does

513
00:53:31,410 --> 00:53:36,330
provide a more balanced approach with respect to live work. I, Andrew.

514
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:45,220
I'm sorry, slight change in scheduling, Sean Michael, Stephen, Watson, and I thought

515
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:58,400
So, with regards to the physical impact assessment that has been undertaken, it has looked

516
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:05,920
at the physical impacts of each scenario, both in comparison to each other to assess

517
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:14,180
the relative impacts of each scenario, but also in looking at what the implications are

518
00:54:14,180 --> 00:54:23,040
on existing tax rates within the town and so what's important to note is that in comparing

519
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:29,460
the fiscal impacts of the new development within each of the three scenarios that were

520
00:54:29,460 --> 00:54:36,020
assessed to the current tax rates, we want to recognize the fact that current tax rates

521
00:54:36,020 --> 00:54:43,860
are not sufficient to fund the full state of good repair of existing assets that are required

522
00:54:43,860 --> 00:54:50,580
However, when we're looking at the costs of new development within each of the three scenarios,

523
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:57,320
we are considering those full capital costs of the incremental infrastructure that are required.

524
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:07,940
So in assessing the fiscal impacts of new development to be fair to those and transparent to those fiscal impacts,

525
00:55:07,940 --> 00:55:15,520
We want to look at what those implications are on current tax rates, as well as current

526
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:21,520
tax rates that would be required to fund the full lifecycle needs or the state of good

527
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,260
repair of existing assets.

528
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:33,880
And so within the table presented on the slide, we can see that current capital funding levels

529
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:45,620
in 2021, the residential tax rate is roughly 0.36% with to move to a full state good repair

530
00:55:45,620 --> 00:55:51,280
of existing asset funding that would require without any additional development or assessment

531
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:57,800
growth that would require a 29% increase in current tax rate, so an increase to roughly 0.47%

532
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:06,180
percent of the residential rate. And then when looking at the three different growth scenarios

533
00:56:06,180 --> 00:56:14,740
that were assessed, in scenario one maintaining the existing residential boundaries and without

534
00:56:14,740 --> 00:56:21,160
any further employment area expansion, there would be at the full buildout of that scenario

535
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:28,580
of 2021 that would have about a 25% increase in current tax rates associated with that scenario.

536
00:56:29,940 --> 00:56:36,580
But what we see is that in comparison to the tax rates that would be required without any growth

537
00:56:36,580 --> 00:56:43,360
to meet the state of the repair of existing assets, it's slightly less at 25% versus 29%.

538
00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:50,100
So providing some marginal positive fiscal benefits in comparison to no further growth at all.

539
00:56:51,160 --> 00:57:14,680
In scenario two, which looked at having some community area, Greenfield residential expansion as well as employment area, expansion, we can see the positive fiscal impacts of that future development are much more significant requiring only a 4% increase in taxes over that period of 2021.

540
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:20,500
I mean, the full cost of new development, as well as funding the state of good repair

541
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:21,720
of existing assets.

542
00:57:22,780 --> 00:57:30,420
And then in scenario three, with only expansions to the employment areas and no further green

543
00:57:30,420 --> 00:57:39,080
bill community area expansions, there would actually be a net decrease in tax rates and residential

544
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:48,700
taxed by 2021, with about a 6% decrease to 0.34% of the residential tax rate with that much

545
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:57,940
greater positive financial impact being driven by the employment area expansion and the associated

546
00:57:58,820 --> 00:58:04,900
tax revenues from non-resident, financial development relative to the limited services that are

547
00:58:04,900 --> 00:58:05,340
required.

548
00:58:14,620 --> 00:58:22,880
I think that's my slide. Thanks very much for that physical overview guys. So I

549
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:28,380
just wanted to cover off one last item before we do a brief summary update. And that's

550
00:58:28,380 --> 00:58:36,000
the implications of delaying settlement expansion, which we've heard. There's requests to delay

551
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:43,460
for 10 years settlement expansion. There are some implications to that that council should

552
00:58:43,460 --> 00:58:51,080
be aware of. The IJMS is to 2051, so growth decisions will be locked to that 2051 period.

553
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:59,380
It will be updated continually, but what will be happening based on that 2051 is that

554
00:58:59,380 --> 00:59:05,520
population will be have to be allocated to different areas. The allocated to your intensification

555
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:12,720
areas will be allocated to existing greenfield areas. And the different studies will have

556
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:17,880
to be updated. The regional best planning estimates which provide the basis for infrastructure

557
00:59:18,620 --> 00:59:23,920
and transportation planning will have to be updated accordingly. The regional master plan

558
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:30,720
will have to be updated. The servicing plans will need to be updated. Whoops. All right.

559
00:59:33,980 --> 00:59:40,680
Backup page. The development charges will need to be updated. All those will need to be based on

560
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:49,280
on 2051 planning forecast and where growth is to be allocated, it won't be possible to

561
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,320
reverse those decisions in 10 years of 2031.

562
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:11,060
As I indicated for, for providing housing for families, providing a full range of housing for families, we'll have implications on housing affordability for families.

563
01:00:11,980 --> 01:00:23,380
Parements provide great housing affordability for those with one and two person households for small units. It doesn't provide a housing affordability for large units that are required for families.

564
01:00:24,100 --> 01:00:27,600
lack of shovel ready land. Employment land will be a

565
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,540
disincentive for industries to come in to locate in Holton Hills.

566
01:00:30,780 --> 01:00:35,600
They want to have land available now so that they can locate now.

567
01:00:35,940 --> 01:00:41,580
They don't look ten years out. And lack of new employment land will

568
01:00:41,580 --> 01:00:47,780
result in an increased outcommuting because although there's

569
01:00:47,780 --> 01:00:51,780
holding off settlement expansion, you still have significant

570
01:00:51,780 --> 01:00:55,780
growth in your misspelled occurring through intensification to meet these

571
01:00:55,780 --> 01:00:59,920
intensification targets of the growth plan. And as well as the densification that

572
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:04,280
Halt and Region is proposing in your existing designated greenfield area. So

573
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,800
that increased population will need to find jobs somewhere and not providing

574
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,900
additional employment land will resulting increased outcommuting and

575
01:01:11,900 --> 01:01:18,440
commensurate impacts on climate change. So just like to quickly summarize the key

576
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:19,040
takeaways.

577
01:01:21,100 --> 01:01:27,340
Halton Hills has passed has been predominantly been family-oriented and the

578
01:01:27,340 --> 01:01:32,040
housing in Halton Hills has been predominantly family-oriented as we can see from the previous

579
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:38,780
graphs that have provided to you. Department growth in Halton Hills has been quite limited

580
01:01:38,780 --> 01:01:45,180
in the last 10 years, averaging 11 units per year and greater apartment development

581
01:01:45,180 --> 01:01:48,900
what his report require a significant shift in housing

582
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:52,460
preference of families because that's where a lot of your

583
01:01:52,460 --> 01:01:56,720
growth is going to become at 41% of the growth to halt and

584
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,820
region as a whole will be from families. Hilton Hills people

585
01:01:59,820 --> 01:02:03,100
moved to Hilton Hills for family housing, families moved

586
01:02:03,100 --> 01:02:06,340
to Hilton Hills. So that's an even greater shift is going to be

587
01:02:06,340 --> 01:02:08,840
required for Hilton Hills compared to these other

588
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,760
municipalities. And the cost per square foot does not favor

589
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:20,060
apartments over ground-related housing for families. The costs are much cheaper for town houses

590
01:02:20,060 --> 01:02:21,460
on a first-wear-foot basis.

591
01:02:23,940 --> 01:02:29,880
The future areas of intensification or past areas have been largely

592
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:34,780
ground-related. The future is going to be predominantly apartments. That's where your intensification. Those

593
01:02:34,780 --> 01:02:41,380
big sites for ground-related housing are vast disappearing. It's really going to be a small site

594
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:48,160
transportation, existing commercial plazas, and those will be developed as through apartments.

595
01:02:49,580 --> 01:02:55,440
And just because you have a supply of intensification sites does not necessarily lead to intensification

596
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:55,860
happening.

597
01:02:56,040 --> 01:03:01,420
Just because there's quite a range, there's a number of factors that have to come into play

598
01:03:01,420 --> 01:03:09,580
as I went over in the Council workshop, both on the supply side, which means that landowners

599
01:03:09,580 --> 01:03:14,280
holders holding those properties, such as a commercial plaza, have to see a significant

600
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:20,500
uplift and value, in order to, for go that annual money that they get in from renting

601
01:03:20,500 --> 01:03:26,580
out commercial areas, that uplift will have to occur for them to want to redevelop.

602
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:31,900
And then there's the demand side, as we talked about, the demand of people wanting to shift

603
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:39,480
their demand to apartments, with the densification and the intensification together, increase

604
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:46,740
is they require department absorption to 220 to 300 units per year. That's a significant

605
01:03:46,740 --> 01:03:52,840
increase from your current 11 units per year on average. So intensification, I should

606
01:03:53,250 --> 01:03:58,780
say the DJ will be a challenge due to a limited land availability in your design greenfield

607
01:03:58,780 --> 01:04:06,820
area, more so than the challenge of intensification. And as I talked about communities, new greenfield

608
01:04:06,820 --> 01:04:11,540
communities can be designed with 15-minute neighborhoods, they have to be properly

609
01:04:11,540 --> 01:04:16,400
defined, but they can be designed to reduce the impacts on climate change and to be low

610
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:27,660
carbon communities. In terms of employment, the demand for employment land in Houghton Hills

611
01:04:27,660 --> 01:04:35,280
is quite strong for manufacturing, for logistics, hospitality, recreation uses, but the supply

612
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:42,920
is quite limited, particularly shovel ready sites are limited. The Highway 401 location

613
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:48,460
is desirable for logistics, is desirable for manufacturing, is desirable for those

614
01:04:48,460 --> 01:04:52,520
integrated facilities that have offices and manufacturing where I was in together.

615
01:04:53,860 --> 01:04:59,740
And there's limited opportunities and intensified existing employment lands, which is very different

616
01:04:59,740 --> 01:05:02,560
and employing intensification employment lands

617
01:05:02,860 --> 01:05:06,060
from intensifying residential lands.

618
01:05:06,220 --> 01:05:08,800
You're seeing some of that along Burlington Oakville

619
01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:10,940
where some older industries are intensifying

620
01:05:10,940 --> 01:05:13,100
with office development, but it's too early

621
01:05:13,100 --> 01:05:15,380
to see that in Holton Hills.

622
01:05:16,540 --> 01:05:19,820
And there's some opportunities for office in your MTSA,

623
01:05:20,060 --> 01:05:21,200
your major transition area,

624
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:22,840
around your two ghost stations,

625
01:05:23,020 --> 01:05:24,680
but those opportunities are limited.

626
01:05:24,820 --> 01:05:27,860
They cannot accommodate all the employment demand

627
01:05:27,860 --> 01:05:35,920
until 2051. And as we said, the office demand in Halton Hills is largely for the smaller,

628
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:40,640
multi-unit, multipurpose development where we've got an office and employment used together.

629
01:05:41,740 --> 01:05:46,620
And lastly, on the employment, both Watson and Hemson identified a need for additional

630
01:05:46,620 --> 01:05:56,600
employment lands by 2051. And under community facilities, there's difficulty finding sites for

631
01:05:56,600 --> 01:05:59,520
large community facilities and that's that's currently you're having

632
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:03,300
difficulty finding sites for a town white park and that's just going to

633
01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:07,860
increase as you're going to need more parkland not only for your new

634
01:06:07,860 --> 01:06:11,840
cellmate expansions if you go that route but also for and more so for your

635
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:16,160
intensification. You need a new town white park by 2031 and additional

636
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:20,960
town white parks by close 2031 also your hospital is looking for potential

637
01:06:20,960 --> 01:06:21,440
new site.

638
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:26,040
In terms of the financial impact

639
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:43,720
Increased tax rates are required over the period of 2015 to maintain a state of good repair of existing assets, future growth within current residential employment boundaries, I scenario one has a minimal effect on mitigating those tax increases.

640
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:56,020
Expanding the residential employment boundaries in scenario two and three provide fiscal benefits that offset all or most of those tax increases that are required to maintain a state of good repair of your existence.

641
01:06:56,020 --> 01:07:00,840
assets. And the positive and financial impacts in scenario two and three are

642
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,660
driven by expansion largely of the employment lands. That's really what is

643
01:07:04,660 --> 01:07:11,740
helping to pay for your state of good repair and the growth that you see from

644
01:07:11,740 --> 01:07:19,220
that employment growth. And then finally, on addressing the last matter, I

645
01:07:19,220 --> 01:07:25,060
talked about waiting 10 years till next and in CR for a settlement expansion is

646
01:07:25,060 --> 01:07:30,540
not a prudent strategy in our opinion. Growth decisions will be starting to be locked

647
01:07:30,540 --> 01:07:36,740
in, your DCs, your transportation master plan, the infrastructure master plan, and the

648
01:07:36,740 --> 01:07:43,900
lack of future green children land will have implications on housing affordability families.

649
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:49,320
It will have impact on your ability to attract industries, and it will result in greater

650
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,860
outcommuting, which will impact on your climate change.

651
01:07:54,380 --> 01:08:00,560
Just finally, very briefly, next steps in terms of the region's next steps, the preferred

652
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:05,700
concept, regional staff of indicated preferred concept will come back to Regional Council

653
01:08:05,700 --> 01:08:08,540
for Decision this October, October 2021.

654
01:08:09,500 --> 01:08:14,860
After that, they will prepare the official plan amendment, called in the region called

655
01:08:14,860 --> 01:08:20,100
the Ropa regional official by the amendment that implements that expansion and other related

656
01:08:20,100 --> 01:08:20,580
policies.

657
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,940
And that will come to regional council for approval in February of 2022.

658
01:08:26,380 --> 01:08:30,880
With that, that completes my presentation and my show.

659
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:35,580
Thank you.

660
01:08:35,980 --> 01:08:36,540
Thank you.

661
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:42,360
Thank you very much Paul, Jamie and Sean for your presentation, so do you have some hands

662
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:42,740
up?

663
01:08:42,740 --> 01:08:46,940
questions from Councillors, so I will recognize Councillor Johnson.

664
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:54,180
Thanks, Mr. Mayor. I'm not sure who can answer this, but I basically one of the takeaways

665
01:08:54,180 --> 01:09:01,300
that I got from all those presentations put together was that basically we're not building

666
01:09:01,300 --> 01:09:07,180
enough apartments in Haldon Hills, but they're too expensive to build and no one wants to

667
01:09:07,180 --> 01:09:14,360
live in them anyway. So what is a community to do when they've designated quite a few sites

668
01:09:14,360 --> 01:09:18,640
and I can think over the years we've had sites that were designated for eight and ten

669
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:24,120
story buildings. I can give you the Mackenzie was one which is downtown. Matame was one at the

670
01:09:24,120 --> 01:09:30,160
corner of Maple and Mountain View and the developer you know sort of came to us crying that oh nobody

671
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:35,220
wants to live in apartments so let us build townhouses. So we've lost those opportunities and there's

672
01:09:35,220 --> 01:09:41,020
others that are I can think along Mountain View at the ghost station area. There's like

673
01:09:41,020 --> 01:09:47,480
think 10, 12 story buildings that have been designated for gosh five, 10 years and nothing

674
01:09:47,480 --> 01:09:56,600
has happened. So you know it kind of all this sort of makes me feel like you're you're you know

675
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:02,100
shaking your finger at us because we're not doing enough apartments but nobody wants them anyway.

676
01:10:02,100 --> 01:10:07,200
So I guess I'm feeling really conflicted about your message.

677
01:10:08,780 --> 01:10:12,720
So you, Mr. Mayor, to Councilor Johnson, maybe I can help to address that.

678
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:13,420
That's OK?

679
01:10:15,140 --> 01:10:15,960
Yeah, that's fine.

680
01:10:16,700 --> 01:10:17,100
Please do.

681
01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:24,200
So we're certainly not waving my finger at you to saying you're not doing enough, and I'm

682
01:10:24,200 --> 01:10:27,060
not saying that no one wants to live in those permits.

683
01:10:27,580 --> 01:10:32,300
I think what we're trying to identify for you that it's going to be a challenge.

684
01:10:32,300 --> 01:10:33,340
It's a challenge now.

685
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:39,380
And your intensification target through just through the growth plan requirements is going

686
01:10:39,380 --> 01:10:39,800
to increase.

687
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:44,800
So, the province is requiring you and other misspellies in all the reason to do more.

688
01:10:45,660 --> 01:10:48,700
But it's a challenge because it's not a field of dreams.

689
01:10:49,180 --> 01:10:50,460
You can't designate the sites.

690
01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:52,680
You can't build the sites and hope that people will come.

691
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:53,980
Some people will.

692
01:10:53,980 --> 01:10:59,740
And some people are attracted to apartments. There's no doubt about it empty nesters those that the kids have left

693
01:10:59,740 --> 01:11:07,220
They want to downsize. They want to get rid of that for bedroom home with the three bathrooms that they have to maintain that huge yard

694
01:11:07,220 --> 01:11:13,900
They're they're going to be attracted to that type of living young young young couples don't have kids are certainly going to be attracted

695
01:11:13,900 --> 01:11:18,920
That that that environment the challenge really is the families

696
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:24,040
and for Houghton Hills, that's who's driven your growth as families.

697
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,500
They come to Houghton Hills for that ground-related housing.

698
01:11:28,780 --> 01:11:33,520
And so the challenge is to get those families into apartments

699
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:37,480
and what we are identifying is the challenge. Sorry, my phone's ringing.

700
01:11:38,180 --> 01:11:40,580
Okay. I'll try to ignore that as I finish.

701
01:11:41,060 --> 01:11:42,600
So that is really the challenge.

702
01:11:43,260 --> 01:11:47,900
And you know, you have developers that say we can't build them,

703
01:11:47,900 --> 01:11:53,440
But you have to hold on those sites really have to hold on those sites because if you don't hold on the sites

704
01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:56,720
There's no way you're actually going to get that in

705
01:11:57,680 --> 01:12:03,340
Tensification target. I think just the key takeaway must be that it's going to be a challenge to get those numbers

706
01:12:03,340 --> 01:12:07,740
It's a particularly a challenge to encourage families to go into that housing farm

707
01:12:08,540 --> 01:12:09,920
Not for all others

708
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:17,200
Follow up to that then is we just finished a three to four-year process with

709
01:12:17,900 --> 01:12:24,500
A big table of developers and citizens and staff to figure out how we can build a livable

710
01:12:24,500 --> 01:12:29,640
community in the vision Georgetown lands, walkable, you know, all those things you described

711
01:12:29,640 --> 01:12:31,360
where everybody would love to live.

712
01:12:31,900 --> 01:12:36,740
And now we're at Ontario Land Tribune, only want to decrease the density.

713
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:47,080
And it, both, forgive me if I'm cynical, but so how, where does the Ontario Land Tribune

714
01:12:47,080 --> 01:12:53,200
I'll sit when we are trying to do what you're asking us or the province is asking us to do.

715
01:12:53,860 --> 01:12:59,940
And then I know the decision isn't there, but invariably we lose at the Ontario

716
01:12:59,940 --> 01:13:04,680
Land Tribunal and get what we didn't really want in the first place, which we would have

717
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:10,780
actually liked more mixed use in vision, Georgetown, but we settled, and now it's still not

718
01:13:10,780 --> 01:13:11,220
good enough.

719
01:13:11,380 --> 01:13:13,160
So can you comment on that?

720
01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:18,720
Yeah, because if we say we make a decision today and we say that this one's going to be

721
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:26,100
really even more compact and lots of apartments than we may end up with a sprawl again and it's

722
01:13:26,100 --> 01:13:26,980
out of our hands.

723
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:30,560
So you're Mr. Mayor to Councilor Johnson.

724
01:13:31,260 --> 01:13:39,360
What you've got on your side is that any decision of the OLT now, former LBOT, has to conform

725
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:40,280
with the growth plan.

726
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:47,540
And the growth plan is requiring you to provide more density, requiring you to provide

727
01:13:47,540 --> 01:13:48,920
more intensification.

728
01:13:49,540 --> 01:13:54,940
So they cannot appeal on saying, well, we want lower density than the growth plan allows

729
01:13:54,940 --> 01:13:57,520
because that just doesn't conform with the growth plan.

730
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:03,100
So you have the policy strength, the province has given you the policy strength, given you

731
01:14:03,100 --> 01:14:08,780
the tools and the region, the tools through this process to identify what you want in terms

732
01:14:08,780 --> 01:14:12,000
of density and what you want in terms of intensification.

733
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:18,060
But my understanding is that the growth plan under which the vision charge term was planned

734
01:14:18,060 --> 01:14:21,900
has now been densities and the jobs per hectare have been decreased.

735
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:31,480
So every four years or plus we get a new government that it's a moving target and again we lose.

736
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,140
It's pretty much a measure to Councillor Johnson.

737
01:14:34,140 --> 01:14:42,320
It has decreased it, but what the halton region is proposing is a minimum of all options

738
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:47,020
is 65 persons in jobs per hectare and there doesn't a green foot area moving forward.

739
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,180
And so, again, at your side,

740
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:29,800
It's a proof set. There is no going back from that. Your secondary plans will have to conform with that. So any new secondary plan has to conform. They can't appeal it on that basis. They might appeal at the saying that they were for doing this housing type for that, but they can't appeal it in terms of meeting those density targets. That's that's a given. Okay, I have I think one more question and that is about the employment. You said 42% or two more questions. 42% of people in

741
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:31,660
in the Hilton Hills Commute Out,

742
01:15:32,500 --> 01:15:34,580
but I know that there's a lot of people

743
01:15:34,580 --> 01:15:36,620
that commute in to the Hilton Hills too.

744
01:15:36,740 --> 01:15:37,760
We didn't hear that number.

745
01:15:38,220 --> 01:15:40,260
I know there's lots of people from Milton who work

746
01:15:40,720 --> 01:15:42,520
in those jobs long for a one,

747
01:15:42,620 --> 01:15:44,180
lots of people from Mississauga.

748
01:15:44,820 --> 01:15:47,880
Why didn't we hear that number as well?

749
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:50,760
Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councilor Johnson.

750
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:55,100
Yeah, that's what I indicated with a large metropolitan area.

751
01:15:55,340 --> 01:15:57,980
You're always going to have commuting across the border

752
01:15:57,980 --> 01:16:01,280
because I like that job over on the cell side of 401

753
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:03,380
versus the job on the north side of 401.

754
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:05,060
So it's always going to happen.

755
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,820
What you want to do is run maximize your employment

756
01:16:07,820 --> 01:16:10,800
lands to try and reduce that of commuting as much as possible.

757
01:16:11,020 --> 01:16:16,460
So the really goal is basically one job for every two

758
01:16:16,460 --> 01:16:20,740
residents, which is largely most labor forces around 50%

759
01:16:20,740 --> 01:16:21,480
of the population.

760
01:16:21,940 --> 01:16:24,440
So you want to target about that amount of jobs

761
01:16:24,440 --> 01:16:25,220
for population.

762
01:16:25,220 --> 01:16:31,560
if you can get that, then the large majority of your population will be commuting in your

763
01:16:31,560 --> 01:16:36,300
municipality, not commuting out, but you're always going to have that cross-border commuting

764
01:16:36,300 --> 01:16:40,700
in and out in a large metropolitan area such as since the GTA.

765
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:47,560
Okay, and last question is about taxes. And you mentioned, you know, sort of worst-case scenario,

766
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:52,780
if we do this, it's going to be that, if you do that, it's going to be this. So, and I can't

767
01:16:52,780 --> 01:16:54,140
I remember exactly what scenarios,

768
01:16:54,140 --> 01:16:56,540
but one of the most 25% tax increase.

769
01:16:56,740 --> 01:16:58,400
Is that up to 2051?

770
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:00,200
That's not 25% now.

771
01:17:01,480 --> 01:17:03,620
That's over 30 years, right?

772
01:17:03,860 --> 01:17:06,120
So that's like less than 1% per year.

773
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:08,600
In my calculation, maybe I'm not doing that.

774
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,820
That's a Shawn Michael question is

775
01:17:15,340 --> 01:17:15,640
available.

776
01:17:18,650 --> 01:17:20,490
Could you repeat, I could cut out there

777
01:17:20,490 --> 01:17:22,190
for a moment, do you repeat the last question?

778
01:17:22,950 --> 01:17:24,750
Yeah, so just using the scenario

779
01:17:24,750 --> 01:17:28,010
that caused a 25% tax increase,

780
01:17:28,010 --> 01:17:34,430
because it was a bit of a scare tactic when you see those numbers is that but is that over up to

781
01:17:34,430 --> 01:17:42,310
20 51 so basically that's 30 years from now that's that's a 1% per year less than that or is

782
01:17:42,310 --> 01:17:50,030
this 25% every five years or what you didn't say you basically you set out to 20 51 but you didn't

783
01:17:50,030 --> 01:17:57,850
say per year. Yes so that is a cumulative impact so that's the total impact by 20 51 so

784
01:17:57,850 --> 01:18:00,090
So to your point, less than 1% a year.

785
01:18:01,290 --> 01:18:03,150
OK, and then a follow-up to that.

786
01:18:03,570 --> 01:18:07,070
So that was a bit of, I think, well,

787
01:18:07,490 --> 01:18:08,650
I'm not saying it's misinformation,

788
01:18:08,950 --> 01:18:12,090
but it could be interpreted as a really scary number.

789
01:18:12,230 --> 01:18:13,750
And now I'm not afraid at all.

790
01:18:14,270 --> 01:18:21,330
But the other thing about that, so say we pick a scenario

791
01:18:21,330 --> 01:18:24,130
where there's only a 5% tax increase,

792
01:18:24,370 --> 01:18:25,450
so that sounds way better.

793
01:18:25,450 --> 01:18:29,910
and then the next council, you know, goes to 2061, whatever, whatever.

794
01:18:30,030 --> 01:18:36,330
In the end, the white belt is full, and there's no more growth, and then what happens?

795
01:18:36,990 --> 01:18:45,590
Basically, then the existing community has to pay for everything, state of good repair, et cetera, et cetera.

796
01:18:45,710 --> 01:18:48,690
And I know that happened in Mississauga a number of years ago.

797
01:18:48,790 --> 01:18:55,250
They posted along with 0% tax increases that got the mayor reelected

798
01:18:55,250 --> 01:19:00,690
for, you know, 100 years and then all of a sudden they were full and the taxes went way

799
01:19:00,690 --> 01:19:06,290
up, way up, way up. So that's the end result of this, isn't it for us?

800
01:19:09,820 --> 01:19:17,300
Yeah, I think potentially what you want to be, the town wants to be cognizant of as they

801
01:19:17,300 --> 01:19:23,760
develop, is that they have, you know, you have continued objectives not only to meet

802
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:29,780
your, um, to provide the existing levels of service, but to also make sure that you are funding

803
01:19:29,780 --> 01:19:35,800
the full, uh, capital costs of your existing future assets and that you're not, um, you know,

804
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:41,000
just pushing that burden down hell to a point when, um, it may become a bigger issue with that.

805
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:46,620
You're continuing to, um, you know, to meet those needs and to continue to progress your

806
01:19:46,620 --> 01:19:51,500
asset management plan policies and increasing levels of service and meeting climate change, um,

807
01:19:52,100 --> 01:19:59,340
objectives as well. Well, but still in the end, the people who live in the now

808
01:19:59,340 --> 01:20:04,460
full community have to keep paying through their taxes to keep every, keep the

809
01:20:04,460 --> 01:20:10,580
drinks open and the roofs on and and the roads plowed and and so on. So I guess

810
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:15,620
not really a question except that that's my point that eventually the growth

811
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:22,080
the assessment growth stops and does it stop now or does it stop in ten years or

812
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:24,480
or does it stop in 100 years, like I don't know,

813
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:28,940
but any council that reaches the end of the road

814
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:31,840
has to deal with the fact that, okay, we're done,

815
01:20:31,980 --> 01:20:33,260
there's no more assessment growth.

816
01:20:34,040 --> 01:20:36,200
So that I just wanted to make that point.

817
01:20:36,440 --> 01:20:37,700
That's all Mr. Mayor, thanks.

818
01:20:38,900 --> 01:20:40,780
Thank you, Councilor Johnson,

819
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,600
and if I recollect,

820
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:48,200
Mrs. Saga also used a lot of their reserves

821
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:51,540
to keep their taxes at 0% as well.

822
01:20:51,540 --> 01:20:56,740
and then they got the big surprise when the new mayor came in and as you said,

823
01:20:56,920 --> 01:21:02,040
they went from 0% to 6.5%, 7.5% increases and have been.

824
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:04,900
Thank you for your questions. I have Councilor Somerville.

825
01:21:06,320 --> 01:21:11,940
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I would much rather have a tax increase of 0.25 per year instead of 1%

826
01:21:12,400 --> 01:21:15,720
over 20 years. That's just me though. Maybe I don't want to see my taxes drop.

827
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:20,920
So I guess the question I would have, and I'm not sure if it's for Paul or Sean Michael or for Jamie,

828
01:21:21,540 --> 01:21:40,660
But it's unemployment lands and Councillor Lewis and I this morning happened to meeting to be meeting with a a farmer down in the in the 401 quarter area for lack of a better one who also has a business in Milton has most farmers do they they have a something else that they have to do to pay to pay the bills.

829
01:21:41,480 --> 01:21:50,800
But this one was saying about the lack of 100,000 square foot buildings he said the problem that they're find that he was finding.

830
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:55,620
is that a lot of the buildings that end up going up are the large, larger,

831
01:21:55,680 --> 01:22:02,040
logistic ones that are 750,000 a million square feet, and there's a real

832
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:07,140
difficulty to find smaller ones, whether I don't know if you want to call that

833
01:22:07,140 --> 01:22:12,340
industrial condo style, but he said especially for manufacturing, not for office

834
01:22:12,340 --> 01:22:16,180
one. Is that something that you have found as well, that there's a

835
01:22:16,180 --> 01:22:19,260
a different quality to find like that niche size around.

836
01:22:20,900 --> 01:22:24,440
It was asked Jamie Cook to respond to that question.

837
01:22:24,740 --> 01:22:24,860
Mayor.

838
01:22:27,900 --> 01:22:28,540
Thank you.

839
01:22:29,460 --> 01:22:30,760
It's an interesting question.

840
01:22:32,820 --> 01:22:34,620
It's been a little while since I looked at it,

841
01:22:34,660 --> 01:22:37,020
but I would say that I think it's probably a bit more

842
01:22:37,020 --> 01:22:40,560
of a heightened issue in places like Hall of Males

843
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,200
and maybe the lesser, well, I think not lesser than equally

844
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:48,620
in the town of Milton because just the overall market

845
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:54,660
to demand for large land extensive uses to accommodate that logistics sector.

846
01:22:54,980 --> 01:23:01,080
So I would say that it's probably been more of a challenge because the developers in

847
01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:05,780
the market has been more catered to those large scale developments and consolidating lands

848
01:23:05,780 --> 01:23:08,780
to provide for that type of use.

849
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:16,640
So I think probably the best defense to that is to ensure that you are providing a plan

850
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:22,400
that ultimately delivers as much market choice as possible to allow for a broader range of

851
01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:30,980
uses by location, designation, zoning, price, accessibility, visibility. Within the various

852
01:23:30,980 --> 01:23:37,900
employment areas, if you have in the premier gateway area, in active and in Georgetown, and I think

853
01:23:37,900 --> 01:23:43,820
by doing that, that's probably your best approach to accommodate the broader needs. You also need to

854
01:23:43,820 --> 01:23:50,480
be working with a broad range of landowners and developers to try to ensure that you are

855
01:23:51,500 --> 01:23:57,320
achieving that broader mix of types of fun and areas.

856
01:23:57,820 --> 01:23:59,540
So that's my answer.

857
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:04,760
No, thank you. And actually your answer was kind of what I had in my head that

858
01:24:05,780 --> 01:24:11,440
might be the reason that if it's a lack of supply or there are bigger companies that are building.

859
01:24:11,440 --> 01:24:15,260
So, you know, your answer does actually quantify kind of what I thought it was.

860
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:20,880
So I guess the other one is option 3B, the regional option 3B, I've never supported.

861
01:24:21,340 --> 01:24:27,160
I didn't support us ever looking at it because in my mind, it was never realistic to not

862
01:24:27,160 --> 01:24:31,660
have the employment land to be added in because we find that in Houghton Hills.

863
01:24:31,880 --> 01:24:37,400
We have very little land that you mentioned and it was only 100 or so acres that we actually

864
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:39,660
have readily available now.

865
01:24:39,660 --> 01:24:55,000
But we've also seen in Milton their council position has been to adopt option four to going for the maximum amount of employment land and the maximum amount of residential land as well.

866
01:24:56,080 --> 01:25:03,980
And is that something that if Hilton Hills did look at and didn't designate enough industrial land?

867
01:25:03,980 --> 01:25:10,520
And because there could be so much more, many more options available in Milton, we would

868
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:11,960
actually lose out on those.

869
01:25:15,460 --> 01:25:18,200
It's a great question to you, Mr. Mayor.

870
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:19,580
Great question, so, Jayden.

871
01:25:21,740 --> 01:25:26,060
So we've tried to look at this issue in other places by looking at the broader market.

872
01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:33,740
Sometimes they call it market saturation analysis and it gets in different terms or coins.

873
01:25:33,740 --> 01:25:45,580
But I think I think to Paul's point earlier, like the GTA is it's the third largest industrial area in all of North America, it's huge and they can see right throughout all time lows.

874
01:25:46,460 --> 01:25:49,720
The demand for industrial space is really at all time highs.

875
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,600
I don't perceive too much of a risk in,

876
01:25:55,780 --> 01:25:59,560
you know, not losing too much market share from Milton.

877
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:06,760
and if they were to provide an option that would accommodate concept 4, I think it's something

878
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:13,020
that maybe did monitor and be aware and be looking at how those lands are phased over time.

879
01:26:13,740 --> 01:26:19,440
I do think there's some need to establish priorities of where growth is going to be

880
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:26,520
located and serviced over the next three decades. So it's definitely something to consider.

881
01:26:29,620 --> 01:26:32,640
I haven't done a full analysis of the entire region.

882
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,100
So it's a little hard for me to fully, you know,

883
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:38,220
point on this, but I would say that the demand is quite strong.

884
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:41,260
I would say that both consultants are coming to a conclusion

885
01:26:41,260 --> 01:26:45,280
that there's definitely a need for a sizeable amount

886
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:49,140
of urban expansion from planning areas within the region.

887
01:26:50,060 --> 01:26:53,440
John Lynnhart, our planner would like to make a comment.

888
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:55,740
Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

889
01:26:56,100 --> 01:26:58,660
And through you to Councillor Somerville,

890
01:26:58,660 --> 01:27:06,280
So I think what you may be getting at is in terms of a regional supply, if the town chooses

891
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:11,120
a particular path on the employment side, and let's say for the sake of the argument

892
01:27:11,120 --> 01:27:16,080
either taking less or not taking any, will Milton pick up the slack?

893
01:27:16,240 --> 01:27:18,940
I think that's what you may have been alluding to.

894
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:27,780
And yes, I think we know historically that Milton has obviously been looking to plan out

895
01:27:27,780 --> 01:27:32,240
their white belt and through the sustainable halt and exercise and through the exercise

896
01:27:32,240 --> 01:27:33,160
we're going through now.

897
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:38,280
They've always expressed a concern that they have a sufficient supply of employment land

898
01:27:38,280 --> 01:27:44,160
to maintain that 50% activity rate that was talked about during the presentation earlier.

899
01:27:45,180 --> 01:27:50,160
So what the region is identified through the growth concepts is, I guess, a quantum of

900
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:54,460
regional supply that they believe is warranted through the work undertaken by Hampson.

901
01:27:54,460 --> 01:28:00,740
and then there were varying distributions between Halt and Hales and Milton of that employment

902
01:28:00,740 --> 01:28:01,260
land.

903
01:28:01,720 --> 01:28:06,180
And really now I guess what the region is looking for is feedback from the local municipalities

904
01:28:06,180 --> 01:28:10,200
as to how they see it and what their preferences are for their particular municipality.

905
01:28:11,260 --> 01:28:12,180
So hopefully that helps.

906
01:28:13,100 --> 01:28:19,060
It does help because I know Milton from speaking to a couple of Milton counselors, their goal

907
01:28:19,060 --> 01:28:29,480
is to have a residential to employment land ratio of 66 to 33, which is awesome if

908
01:28:29,480 --> 01:28:34,200
you could do it, because I know we struggled for a lot of years to get past 90-10, and

909
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:38,840
we have moved a bit past that, and I don't want to see us go backwards from that, I'd rather

910
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:39,940
see us go forward.

911
01:28:40,100 --> 01:28:45,780
So, thank you so much for that, John, because that does help tremendously with that as well,

912
01:28:45,780 --> 01:28:51,100
because, you know, my point is, we should try to end as much as we can because we won't get the

913
01:28:51,100 --> 01:28:57,080
opportunity down the road. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Somerville and I have Councillor

914
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:05,200
Ingalls. Thank you, Worship, and thanks so much for the presentation. Second time to

915
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:11,780
research through drill in here a bit. A couple of questions. I'm hoping they can be answered

916
01:29:11,780 --> 01:29:17,800
Wait, concisely, one of the things that was thought that all through that presentation

917
01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:18,800
was a densification.

918
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:25,780
And the densification occurred on residential lands only, and to follow up, maybe on

919
01:29:25,780 --> 01:29:28,540
Councilor Somerville's comments,

920
01:29:30,780 --> 01:29:34,880
because there's a municipality have any tools to densify

921
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:36,020
employment lands.

922
01:29:36,020 --> 01:29:43,780
for instance, on some of our, a lot of our employment lands and granted their logistical

923
01:29:43,780 --> 01:29:46,960
and their big machinery around some for industrials.

924
01:29:47,460 --> 01:29:55,340
But the offices lab in the beyond the same floor as the trucks come in, like, I mean,

925
01:29:55,340 --> 01:29:57,220
Go up to go up three.

926
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,180
Employment lands. That's that's not mentioned at all in any of the reports that I've read.

927
01:30:06,540 --> 01:30:25,800
I'll try and talk about Mr. Mayor through you to Council English. So there's there's no tools to require the densification or intensification of employment lands. You certainly through your official plan and zoning can provide the flexibility to allow industry.

928
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:34,900
the old factory wants to put up for story five story office building through your zoning

929
01:30:34,900 --> 01:30:41,220
allowing for that height, allowing for that amount of development, you can do it in

930
01:30:41,220 --> 01:30:49,540
that way. The biggest disincentive of course to intensifying for a higher density office

931
01:30:49,540 --> 01:30:55,560
development is always parking and having to pay for the parking. So which it needs to be

932
01:30:55,560 --> 01:31:02,460
a fairly high cost site, so land value fairly high to be able to start to

933
01:31:02,460 --> 01:31:08,160
forward and then also then getting high rents, be able to start to forward

934
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:11,940
structured parking. So you might be able to do a four or five storey office

935
01:31:11,940 --> 01:31:18,800
building, but most likely it would be with act grade parking. Once you get

936
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:22,280
taller than that, you're looking at structured parking and that's where you

937
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:27,400
need the rents to increase. So it's really, you need to provide the flexibility allowed

938
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:31,400
to happen, but it's really the market that's going to drive it where you're going to really

939
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:35,980
get that intensification. So people are going to want to build an office building and they're

940
01:31:35,980 --> 01:31:38,820
going to want to build a taller one and get the market rents.

941
01:31:39,540 --> 01:31:45,020
And thank you for that Paul. My next question, which sort of got up the top of the list

942
01:31:45,020 --> 01:31:50,440
here is and you touched on it during your presentation was that the decision being locked

943
01:31:50,440 --> 01:31:57,960
in until 2051. A number of people have commented to me there have been a number of e-mails,

944
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:08,580
a number of comments regarding why don't we just lock things down and at the five-year review

945
01:32:08,580 --> 01:32:18,680
or the 10-year comprehensive update if things needed to change for a very urgent significant reason

946
01:32:19,700 --> 01:32:24,520
the council of the day would be able to do that.

947
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:29,880
Now, can you tell me if that is a fact or it is false?

948
01:32:32,260 --> 01:32:34,460
Through your Mr. Mayor to Councilor Angles,

949
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:39,540
so it is essentially false in that overall for the region,

950
01:32:40,420 --> 01:32:44,580
they have to and the ministers already given the regional letter,

951
01:32:44,580 --> 01:32:51,300
They have to meet the 2051 and accommodate the 2051 population forecast.

952
01:32:52,340 --> 01:32:56,480
So in other words, the whole region cannot lock down and say, we're not taking any more

953
01:32:56,480 --> 01:32:56,860
population.

954
01:32:57,860 --> 01:32:58,680
It's not an option.

955
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:05,300
The province has said, the minister has said, you shall create an official plan that conforms

956
01:33:05,300 --> 01:33:07,600
to the growth plan by allocating that population.

957
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:15,360
So if though the region chose no expansion, then all of that population growth is to come

958
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:17,140
has to be accommodated somewhere.

959
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:22,080
So if it's not to a settlement expansion, it has to be accommodated within densification

960
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:25,240
or intensification within the formless families.

961
01:33:28,020 --> 01:33:28,280
Okay.

962
01:33:28,440 --> 01:33:37,620
So if there is no urban expansion decision, if that was the decision to be made, that decision

963
01:33:37,620 --> 01:33:39,100
would be locked in basically.

964
01:33:39,100 --> 01:33:46,300
there would be no urban expansion period until 2051. Then they have to look at 2051 to 2061 or

965
01:33:46,300 --> 01:33:51,140
2051 to 2071. Am I correct in that? It's important at 20.

966
01:33:54,180 --> 01:33:56,400
The growth plan is reviewed

967
01:33:56,400 --> 01:34:00,480
through you, Mr. Mayor, to counseling this. The growth plan is reviewed every 10 years

968
01:34:00,480 --> 01:34:06,420
and the population will be updated. So I think the actual population is updated over five years.

969
01:34:06,420 --> 01:34:17,420
So within five years we could see a new forecast to 2061 and at that time then the region then has to accommodate to 2061 growth.

970
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:24,640
So it's not that no municipal comprehensive review happens to 2051.

971
01:34:24,960 --> 01:34:33,320
You will have to do another one in five to ten years to implement an updated growth plan with updated numbers that may go up to 2061.

972
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:46,360
Okay, follow up. I'm trying to do another story to interrupt one trying to get to the point if we lock urban boundary down where it is today or part of the decision come through that we that we lock it down today.

973
01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:51,460
Is it locked down until 20 51 period?

974
01:34:52,620 --> 01:35:02,540
It's locked down to 20 51 for 20 51 growth, but within 10 years you'll have to do an updated official plan to region well to extend it to 20 61.

975
01:35:03,700 --> 01:35:07,080
Thank you for that. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Those are my questions.

976
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:09,300
Thank you, Councillor Lawland.

977
01:35:12,110 --> 01:35:16,690
Thanks very much, Mr. Mayor. And thank you very much for the presentation.

978
01:35:18,870 --> 01:35:32,530
I'm feeling a bit like Councillor Johnson right now and I'm mildly conflicted about some of the projections and key takeaways that are being presented today.

979
01:35:32,530 --> 01:35:45,090
And I appreciate that our staff and regional staff and consultants who have a huge amount

980
01:35:45,090 --> 01:35:56,610
of experience have undertaken an exercise which frankly I feel is a bit of a fool's errand.

981
01:35:56,610 --> 01:36:09,190
I think that the province in requiring us to project to 2021 has required us to kind

982
01:36:09,190 --> 01:36:17,450
of tie ourselves in knots in order to come up with assumptions that have any validity

983
01:36:17,450 --> 01:36:28,070
at all. I really don't know how we project 30 years in the future with any

984
01:36:28,070 --> 01:36:37,790
surety at all. I mean given technical change, given things like COVID, given you

985
01:36:37,790 --> 01:36:42,910
know all kinds of social changes, I don't know how we do this and I admire you on

986
01:36:42,910 --> 01:36:49,610
one hand for giving it a shot, but I have to say that I have a huge trouble with accepting

987
01:36:50,250 --> 01:36:56,770
some of the conclusions because I don't know how any of us can base these assumptions.

988
01:36:58,170 --> 01:37:06,990
So anyway, with that pre-enable, I think that it appears to me that many of the projections

989
01:37:06,990 --> 01:37:10,230
have to do with past practice.

990
01:37:11,590 --> 01:37:15,790
So comments like housing in Holt and Hills has been

991
01:37:16,770 --> 01:37:18,210
predominantly oriented.

992
01:37:18,830 --> 01:37:21,010
And apartment growth has been limited.

993
01:37:21,630 --> 01:37:25,950
And apartment demand will require a shift.

994
01:37:27,090 --> 01:37:32,710
Well, I think that looking to the past is not a very good

995
01:37:32,710 --> 01:37:35,490
indicator of how we should go in the future.

996
01:37:35,490 --> 01:37:47,370
because climate change, because social change, because the requirements of our society

997
01:37:48,130 --> 01:37:57,750
really, I think, require us to shift quite significantly in how we live our traditional

998
01:37:57,750 --> 01:38:06,930
North American lifestyle and and so I think it's good that we should be shifting and sorry

999
01:38:06,930 --> 01:38:12,590
Councillor Lawler is there a question because we do have a long list of delegations okay yes my

1000
01:38:12,590 --> 01:38:21,310
question is did you look at other communities such as Burlington such as Oakville such as

1001
01:38:21,310 --> 01:38:29,210
Mississauga, such as Brampton, where lots of families do live in apartments, and where

1002
01:38:29,210 --> 01:38:44,090
intensification of employment areas does occur, where yes, six-story housing and six-story

1003
01:38:44,090 --> 01:38:51,750
where housing does occur, did you look at those examples for projections into how

1004
01:38:51,750 --> 01:38:53,970
Holtz and Hills might unfold?

1005
01:38:55,990 --> 01:39:00,710
Maybe I'll start this, Mr. Marin, and Mr. Cook can add to it.

1006
01:39:01,210 --> 01:39:02,490
Three, Mr. Marin, the Chancellor of the Lawler.

1007
01:39:02,970 --> 01:39:11,910
Certainly both I and Jimmy Cook are very knowledgeable about all the municipalities around the Greater Golden Horseshoe.

1008
01:39:11,910 --> 01:39:15,670
We work in all of them for many of them.

1009
01:39:16,330 --> 01:39:20,950
What, yes, you're getting higher rates of intensification

1010
01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:23,450
in the order municipalities, Oakville, Burlington,

1011
01:39:23,810 --> 01:39:25,850
downtown Burlington, around the ghost stations.

1012
01:39:26,450 --> 01:39:28,910
But if you notice that slide I provide to you before,

1013
01:39:29,270 --> 01:39:33,030
even with that, only 8% of all the households

1014
01:39:33,030 --> 01:39:36,650
in Hulton region are families living in apartments.

1015
01:39:37,530 --> 01:39:38,830
If you look at the city of Toronto,

1016
01:39:38,830 --> 01:39:45,050
Similar, there are huge amounts of intensification of current and city of Toronto, incredible amount

1017
01:39:45,050 --> 01:39:49,490
of intensification of our high-density. Again, the amount of people that are families

1018
01:39:49,490 --> 01:39:55,690
is very small. Lots of empty nesters, lots of young people without families, and what

1019
01:39:55,690 --> 01:40:01,410
we've seen through the pandemic is without the restrictions of having to go to the office,

1020
01:40:01,410 --> 01:40:07,970
we've seen a fairly significant out-flight of young families with young kids moving out

1021
01:40:07,970 --> 01:40:13,550
of the city of Toronto into areas like Hulton Hills and even farther beyond for that ground-related

1022
01:40:13,550 --> 01:40:19,870
housing. So that's it. That's a shipment. And yes, to your point, we do definitely need to have

1023
01:40:19,870 --> 01:40:25,870
a shift. We have to have a shift. You have to have a shift. You're a misspellioceship just to meet

1024
01:40:25,870 --> 01:40:31,950
the growth plan target of 50% intensification. The question is, how much of a shift can you

1025
01:40:31,950 --> 01:40:34,570
who reasonably achieve in Hilton Hills.

1026
01:40:35,430 --> 01:40:42,490
In terms of an appointment, maybe Mr. Cook will add to this if he could, but yes, you're

1027
01:40:42,490 --> 01:40:47,730
seeing intensification in the QW quarter, but those are largely older industrial buildings

1028
01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:53,790
with lower ceiling heights that were built in a different era 30, 40 years ago.

1029
01:40:54,330 --> 01:40:58,690
They're not prime industrial space anymore, industries now on higher space.

1030
01:40:58,690 --> 01:41:03,430
what you'll see is they are more sea-spaced and they are the ones that are getting

1031
01:41:04,350 --> 01:41:09,590
redeveloped, torn down, demolished, and redeveloped for more intense office space.

1032
01:41:09,810 --> 01:41:14,130
Some with a larger manufacturing as well. You see that along the QW quarter and

1033
01:41:14,130 --> 01:41:18,930
that along the highway 400 corridor up through the city of Toronto and into

1034
01:41:18,930 --> 01:41:24,530
Vaughan. But your space is much newer and we're not seeing that. We might see that

1035
01:41:24,530 --> 01:41:28,370
in 30 years, but we're not going to see that the next 10 to 20 years.

1036
01:41:28,370 --> 01:41:37,050
for sure. Mr. Cook, do you want to respond to any add on to that? Sure, thanks, Paul. I guess

1037
01:41:37,050 --> 01:41:42,490
with respect to the residential market, as Paul mentioned, I do a lot of growth projections

1038
01:41:42,490 --> 01:41:48,310
work out across all of the GGA's and I would agree that it is very difficult to project long-term

1039
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:54,930
population and housing and employment, but it is very critical to carry out these exercises for

1040
01:41:54,930 --> 01:41:58,210
the purpose of long-range planning and growth management, infrastructure planning.

1041
01:41:58,410 --> 01:42:07,550
So we have to try, but I do sympathize, and I do admit that our level of precision

1042
01:42:07,550 --> 01:42:10,750
is somewhat limited when we go out 30, 30 years.

1043
01:42:11,070 --> 01:42:16,690
But we have sophisticated models and a conference approach to try to tackle this.

1044
01:42:18,150 --> 01:42:21,710
And we've been doing this for a long time, and we've got a pretty good track record at

1045
01:42:21,710 --> 01:42:23,450
looking at the long-term projections.

1046
01:42:23,450 --> 01:42:29,890
I didn't prepare the long-term projections for the Holt and their Holt and Hills, but have looked at the employment.

1047
01:42:30,650 --> 01:42:39,510
I would just say on the residential, it is important to just always come back, I think, to provide some sort of balanced approach, I think.

1048
01:42:39,570 --> 01:42:51,930
I think to me, that's the operative word here, that any solution that is overly focused on one form of housing or one type of growth is likely not going to position the town in a positive way.

1049
01:42:51,930 --> 01:42:56,550
because there's just a broad range of demographic groups that are going to be looking for housing within

1050
01:42:56,550 --> 01:43:02,230
Hilton Hills. And for you to have success and to achieve a steady level of growth, you're really

1051
01:43:02,230 --> 01:43:08,670
going to be, and to play a role within the the the the GGation region to accommodate the population,

1052
01:43:08,670 --> 01:43:13,770
you are going to have to provide a broad range of housing types to accommodate first-time home buyers,

1053
01:43:14,010 --> 01:43:20,570
families, empty nesters, seniors, and all those. And apartments alone will not will not do that.

1054
01:43:20,570 --> 01:43:25,570
But there is a big challenge you have in front of you in terms of portability, I think

1055
01:43:27,910 --> 01:43:32,470
more starter sort of style of medium density housing is probably a good option to continue

1056
01:43:32,470 --> 01:43:36,010
to focus on, but it is definitely an uphill battle and rental.

1057
01:43:36,230 --> 01:43:38,830
I think you cannot ignore the need for more rental housing.

1058
01:43:38,950 --> 01:43:42,250
Just looking at housing formal loan is not going to provide the answer.

1059
01:43:42,410 --> 01:43:47,010
You need to look at tenure and there's going to be a tremendous need for rental housing with

1060
01:43:47,010 --> 01:43:48,610
that high density component.

1061
01:43:48,610 --> 01:43:55,590
And on the employment, to Paul's point, there are going to be opportunities for intensification.

1062
01:43:55,670 --> 01:43:56,610
We looked at that in detail.

1063
01:43:56,970 --> 01:44:01,390
I would say in fairly good detail in the employment and strategy.

1064
01:44:01,530 --> 01:44:05,430
We looked at a number of sites within Hilton Hills.

1065
01:44:05,750 --> 01:44:07,630
There's several dozen sites that we looked at.

1066
01:44:07,790 --> 01:44:11,790
It is difficult to project where opportunities are going to take place because we don't necessarily

1067
01:44:11,790 --> 01:44:18,530
know the intentions of landowners or businesses in terms of their needs to expand.

1068
01:44:19,010 --> 01:44:24,750
So we can look at sites that are underutilized and we did that, looking primarily in the older industrial areas and

1069
01:44:24,750 --> 01:44:31,010
Act and in Georgetown and we did identify a number of sites that had a high likelihood to intensify and most that's going to come through

1070
01:44:32,590 --> 01:44:37,950
Expansion of existing operations and maybe some redevelopment, but it was limited.

1071
01:44:38,130 --> 01:44:45,550
We looked at an overall target of about 7% of the employment would be accommodated with an existing spaces or an existing

1072
01:44:46,330 --> 01:44:50,830
already occupied lands. As Paul pointed out, in new areas

1073
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:29,640
I'm going to be limited because there just isn't a lot of existing space to intensify in that area. So, I'll just leave it at that. Is there any further questions I'm happy to respond? Good. I did have one for the question, Mr. Mayor, if I may. And that is regarding climate change. And I did note that there was an analysis about GHG emissions and so forth. And the various scenarios

1074
01:45:29,640 --> 01:45:39,360
and how our climate emergency statement might be impacted by the various scenarios.

1075
01:45:39,580 --> 01:45:46,020
And I'm wondering if you could expand on that a little bit because I mean the numbers were there,

1076
01:45:46,260 --> 01:45:54,520
but there was no discussion virtually of what was behind that analysis.

1077
01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:54,680
this?

1078
01:45:57,310 --> 01:46:02,450
Certainly through you, Mr. Mayor of the Councilor Lohler. Yeah, I provided more

1079
01:46:02,450 --> 01:46:07,330
detail on that in the council workshop. I was going over fairly quickly today, so I missed

1080
01:46:07,330 --> 01:46:13,970
hitting on those points. Those are in the tables for each of the four options, five options.

1081
01:46:14,670 --> 01:46:22,850
And that work was done by a consultant for the region just recently in, I believe it was the

1082
01:46:22,850 --> 01:46:31,750
early June and they identified the the amount of greenhouse gas emissions that would come from each

1083
01:46:31,750 --> 01:46:38,290
of the options. They did not look at outcommuting though as part of that. They sort of looked at the

1084
01:46:38,290 --> 01:46:46,890
options as is without considering in commuting or out commuting and the employment options. So the option

1085
01:46:46,890 --> 01:46:53,350
option 4 with the expansion had the highest amount. They're all within the 6

1086
01:46:54,090 --> 01:46:55,790
tons per person.

1087
01:46:59,480 --> 01:47:04,500
So we have option 3 being the lowest and option 1 and 2 in

1088
01:47:04,500 --> 01:47:15,540
between option 3 and 4. Okay and the ideal was was that 3 or? I don't recall

1089
01:47:15,540 --> 01:47:28,600
what an idea was. They were all in the same range of 6 plus, like 6.08 to 6.4 I believe if I recall

1090
01:47:28,600 --> 01:47:34,940
from memory, but it's in the slides. Okay. Thank you very much. Welcome. Thank you,

1091
01:47:35,060 --> 01:47:41,380
Councillor Lewis. And then after Councillor Lewis, I would ask if there are no other questions to

1092
01:47:41,380 --> 01:47:49,920
getting delegations from FAD people waiting since one o'clock. So we want to hear from our

1093
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:54,860
delegations after Councillor Lewis. I'll we'll get into the delegations. Councillor

1094
01:47:54,860 --> 01:47:59,240
Lewis. All right. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I don't know if this goes to Paul or to Jamie.

1095
01:47:59,540 --> 01:48:04,680
And again, I'll try to be fast. 93 times I have received the following sentence, which was

1096
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:09,280
created by some of our, I'll just say some people around their table. And I just want

1097
01:48:09,280 --> 01:48:14,440
read it to you. The official plan is reviewed every five years with comprehensive reviews every 10

1098
01:48:14,440 --> 01:48:18,900
years. It would be a mistake to think that this is the only chance we have to open up the urban

1099
01:48:18,900 --> 01:48:24,760
boundary for the next 30 years. Hold the boundary now through review in 10 years. If what I understood

1100
01:48:24,760 --> 01:48:31,640
that you had said to Councilor Engels, that the 10-year opening is then to plan for 51 to 61.

1101
01:48:32,620 --> 01:48:37,020
So I'm asking here, one of you gentlemen made the same saying,

1102
01:48:37,020 --> 01:48:42,440
And waiting 10 years to the next review is, and I quote, not a prudent strategy.

1103
01:48:42,740 --> 01:48:44,580
I want to make sure I understand that correctly, Paul.

1104
01:48:46,220 --> 01:48:46,740
Certainly.

1105
01:48:46,940 --> 01:48:48,980
See you, Mr. Mayor to Councillor Lewis.

1106
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:49,840
That is correct.

1107
01:48:50,100 --> 01:48:54,440
The next, it's the now the official plan calls for every 10 years.

1108
01:48:55,400 --> 01:49:01,920
And the region has to review their plan every time the growth plan is updated.

1109
01:49:02,480 --> 01:49:05,440
So we'll have a growth plan update in 10 years.

1110
01:49:05,440 --> 01:49:12,860
less than 10 years from the 2020, but they also sometimes update the population every five years.

1111
01:49:12,980 --> 01:49:17,040
So I just wanted to be clear it could be a little earlier. Then the region will have to update it.

1112
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:25,180
But that update, and it will have to address the next population forecast. So it will have to go

1113
01:49:25,180 --> 01:49:33,140
to 2061, and that's what it'll be looking at. Once you've allocated your land to 2051, that is set.

1114
01:49:33,140 --> 01:49:38,400
You can re-look at it just as they're re-looking at it now for the next time period, but

1115
01:49:38,400 --> 01:49:45,020
that next regional official plan review will be looking out to 2061 and allocating that

1116
01:49:45,020 --> 01:49:46,160
growth to 2061.

1117
01:49:46,880 --> 01:49:47,060
Okay.

1118
01:49:47,180 --> 01:49:50,660
And then just from the personal perspective, I think that's one of the most important things

1119
01:49:50,660 --> 01:49:56,400
we learned today because what has been advised, what I received 93 times is not accurate.

1120
01:49:56,400 --> 01:50:02,580
it. On June the 21st, you made reference to sprawl, and you call it haphazard low-density

1121
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:09,200
intermixed with rural and urban. And I'm just wondering, here, is there any change

1122
01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:12,760
in the language that you've given us relative to sprawl?

1123
01:50:14,240 --> 01:50:18,860
We're Mr. Mayor to Councillor Lewis. No, there's not. That is what sprawl is, and frankly,

1124
01:50:18,960 --> 01:50:22,160
you do not have sprawl and hold n' hills at the grant.

1125
01:50:22,240 --> 01:50:24,120
Thank you very much for the clarity. Thanks, Mr. Mayor.

1126
01:50:25,140 --> 01:50:31,440
Thank you. Now we'll proceed to the delegations and I'd like to thank the

1127
01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:37,080
delegations for being very patient. She's been on since 1 o'clock but also I

1128
01:50:37,740 --> 01:50:41,480
think you've been all told by the clerks department that you're allowed five

1129
01:50:41,480 --> 01:50:49,040
minutes. We have 21 delegations and there will be questions after. So I'm just

1130
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:58,580
going to ask everybody to have your five minutes and then they'll be it. So the first delegation

1131
01:50:58,580 --> 01:51:04,260
is Melanie Fraser from the Holton Hills Chamber of Commerce. Good afternoon and welcome.

1132
01:51:07,190 --> 01:51:13,490
Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor. Thank you so much. My internet where I am is awful. So if I pop out,

1133
01:51:13,630 --> 01:51:20,110
I apologize. I have sent in the Chambers position on this to do the town clerk so you can take a look

1134
01:51:20,110 --> 01:51:25,830
at it that way. Good afternoon to you and to members of Town Council. We want to start by saying

1135
01:51:25,830 --> 01:51:31,170
thank you to town staff for their assistance in working with our board and committees to understand

1136
01:51:31,170 --> 01:51:36,650
the five growth options. I reiterate what was said earlier, there are you can see there are hundreds

1137
01:51:36,650 --> 01:51:41,830
of hours worth of work that goes into this and we do appreciate their assistance. I have a statement

1138
01:51:41,830 --> 01:51:47,350
that I'd like to read on behalf of our board. The Help Meholes Chamber of Commerce advocacy committee

1139
01:51:47,350 --> 01:51:52,270
Board of Directors have reviewed the five identified growth options presented under the regional

1140
01:51:52,270 --> 01:51:57,670
official plan amendment and extracted key elements that we believe to be fundamental to growing

1141
01:51:57,670 --> 01:52:03,310
the economy and the efficient movement of people and goods in our community. The following are key

1142
01:52:03,310 --> 01:52:09,630
takeaways from the five growth concepts presented. Expanded employment lands are required to support new

1143
01:52:09,630 --> 01:52:14,890
development opportunities in Halton Hills and to provide for expansion of our existing business

1144
01:52:14,890 --> 01:52:19,930
and tax base. Should this not be included, we risk losing this business to other regions.

1145
01:52:20,590 --> 01:52:26,470
Any growth plan must at the very least protect existing employment uses. The chamber supports

1146
01:52:26,470 --> 01:52:31,370
the focus of new employment lands along the Premier Gateway and Winston Churchill as opposed

1147
01:52:31,370 --> 01:52:36,970
to the Manswood area. Additional employment lands may need to be considered should the GTA West

1148
01:52:36,970 --> 01:52:43,730
Court or be approved. Intensification and densification of residential land and employment land use

1149
01:52:43,730 --> 01:52:49,290
and Houghton Hills will support some of this plant growth, but we recognize that intensification

1150
01:52:49,290 --> 01:52:51,590
is not enough to accommodate the growth needs.

1151
01:52:52,730 --> 01:52:57,750
Any future growth plan must include careful consideration to allow for affordable housing,

1152
01:52:57,970 --> 01:53:00,010
expansion, and act-in and Georgetown.

1153
01:53:00,890 --> 01:53:05,770
Consultation with our members tell us that access to employees is a significant concern.

1154
01:53:06,490 --> 01:53:11,550
Current housing trends in Houghton Hills are a barrier to attracting and retaining a wide

1155
01:53:11,550 --> 01:53:17,450
range of employment levels. Any planned growth must also allow for the continued preservation

1156
01:53:17,450 --> 01:53:23,890
of rural lands for agricultural and agri-business where possible. The Chamber supports a growth

1157
01:53:23,890 --> 01:53:28,770
plan that allows for moderate measured population growth that can be accommodated with a robust

1158
01:53:28,770 --> 01:53:35,510
transportation strategy and infrastructure plan. In closing, we at the Chamber of Commerce

1159
01:53:36,170 --> 01:53:41,190
appreciate the weight of this decision and we understand the considerations that must

1160
01:53:41,190 --> 01:53:46,530
come with all of the options before you. And we appreciate your careful consideration

1161
01:53:46,530 --> 01:53:51,650
and we thank Council for your efforts in this matter. And that's all I have to say on

1162
01:53:51,650 --> 01:53:52,930
that. Thank you so much for your time.

1163
01:53:53,650 --> 01:54:00,490
Thank you very much. There may be questions of the chamber. Councilor Somerville.

1164
01:54:01,430 --> 01:54:07,530
I guess it's more to the clerk about the delegation for the chamber because I know it was indicated

1165
01:54:07,530 --> 01:54:11,470
that we had received it and I'm just wondering if that was in, in which of the emails

1166
01:54:11,470 --> 01:54:16,250
we would have had that because I don't recall seeing it but that could also be by the volume

1167
01:54:16,250 --> 01:54:18,250
we've had the last day or so.

1168
01:54:18,570 --> 01:54:23,090
That would be my first one and then a question to Melanie.

1169
01:54:25,110 --> 01:54:29,850
Well, thank you for being here Melanie and I guess the one thing that you have mentioned

1170
01:54:29,850 --> 01:54:35,770
Councilor Somerville just let the clerk let Valerie answer your first question about the

1171
01:54:35,770 --> 01:54:41,170
correspondence. Thank you, ma'am. Through you, Councillor Somerville, we just received

1172
01:54:41,170 --> 01:54:44,370
that today so that we'll be coming out to council later this afternoon.

1173
01:54:45,490 --> 01:54:51,230
Okay, thank you. I guess a question I would have for Melanie is about, you know, you mentioned about

1174
01:54:51,230 --> 01:55:00,110
modest employment or residential growth, but also about, you know, the employment land

1175
01:55:00,110 --> 01:55:06,510
growth. For the members of the Chamber, have they been vocal or expressing concern about

1176
01:55:06,510 --> 01:55:11,850
the lack of land to be able to use for employment purposes within the town? Has there been any

1177
01:55:12,430 --> 01:55:14,510
conversations on that to date?

1178
01:55:15,290 --> 01:55:22,930
Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councilor Somerville, yeah, we do hear from time to time, most recently

1179
01:55:22,930 --> 01:55:26,890
for a couple of our larger employers that have had to actually move out of Paulton Hills

1180
01:55:26,890 --> 01:55:31,510
because there wasn't appropriate land for them to expand upon.

1181
01:55:31,770 --> 01:55:38,150
So I think the general consensus in town is that for any growth to occur, that we need

1182
01:55:38,150 --> 01:55:40,070
to see expanded employment lands.

1183
01:55:41,870 --> 01:55:45,670
And we would hate to see losing some of our larger companies

1184
01:55:46,420 --> 01:55:48,630
to areas like Milton and other regions.

1185
01:55:51,040 --> 01:55:52,580
And I guess the final one would be

1186
01:55:52,580 --> 01:55:54,420
as there's always been some of the members

1187
01:55:54,420 --> 01:55:58,860
of the Chamber have been about after transit and transportation

1188
01:55:58,860 --> 01:56:05,580
and being able to have both people and moved by not only

1189
01:56:05,580 --> 01:56:12,480
by buses but you know go trains and highways but also the transportation of goods. Is that still

1190
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:17,260
something that has been top of mind for the members as well? Yeah through you Mr. Mayor

1191
01:56:17,260 --> 01:56:22,880
to Councillor Somerville that is a great question and it is one that comes up often when we pull

1192
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:28,920
our members so we have to remember that our chamber members represent all different types of employment

1193
01:56:28,920 --> 01:56:35,500
within Hilton Hills so when we look at the different growth plans I know that one of the things

1194
01:56:35,500 --> 01:56:40,460
that our advocacy committee and our board both want to meet a to reiterate and to let

1195
01:56:40,460 --> 01:56:44,740
council know was that none of this works without a transportation plan to back it up.

1196
01:56:45,320 --> 01:56:50,900
And that includes a local transportation, whether it be buses or something of that iteration,

1197
01:56:51,160 --> 01:56:56,120
but also looking at other larger scale transportation issues.

1198
01:56:56,440 --> 01:57:03,080
We know that the majority of employment in Halton Hills or larger employment focuses on

1199
01:57:03,080 --> 01:57:12,460
we're housing and logistics and is not necessarily at a rate where the hourly rate is enough to

1200
01:57:12,460 --> 01:57:18,880
support a car for a lot of the employment that they would need to be attracting. So definitely

1201
01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:24,740
that is something that we'd like to see and I know that council has had this before them before

1202
01:57:24,740 --> 01:57:30,260
and that there are plans in place and we definitely would like to see that as a support for any future

1203
01:57:30,260 --> 01:57:30,560
growth.

1204
01:57:32,740 --> 01:57:35,620
Thank you so much. I don't want to hold you up because I'm sure you want to get back

1205
01:57:35,620 --> 01:57:40,660
to enjoying your vacation. Thank you. I do have Councillor O'Bano.

1206
01:57:42,380 --> 01:57:49,580
Thank you, Melanie. I'm just wondering in question during the discussions with chamber members,

1207
01:57:49,900 --> 01:57:55,700
is there going to be any conversation around the new hospital that could potentially be coming to

1208
01:57:55,700 --> 01:58:00,720
in our community? I just wanted if you had that conversation with your board

1209
01:58:00,720 --> 01:58:04,420
and the members. So it's for you, Mr. Mayor, to Councilor

1210
01:58:04,420 --> 01:58:10,240
Obano. I think that that's a fairly recent kind of public realization within

1211
01:58:10,240 --> 01:58:15,460
the community. So we haven't had any definitive talks about the new hospital.

1212
01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:18,700
It's certainly, you know, one of the worst kept secrets in

1213
01:58:18,700 --> 01:58:25,120
home hills that a new hospital is coming and I think everyone is aware that

1214
01:58:25,120 --> 01:58:32,440
there is in current space within Halton Hills as it stands right now without expansion of lands.

1215
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:38,460
But certainly, you know, when I will add that any growing community, and you all know this,

1216
01:58:38,660 --> 01:58:43,600
that is carefully thought out, you know, we look at the 15-minute neighborhood,

1217
01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:48,140
you know, we need to have better healthcare within this region as we grow.

1218
01:58:49,240 --> 01:58:54,380
And I know that, you know, the talks that we have is that, you know, much like we talked about today

1219
01:58:54,380 --> 01:59:01,980
with the presentations is that growth is coming, there is little to no choice over expansion

1220
01:59:01,980 --> 01:59:06,680
of our population. So it's such a unique opportunity we have right now to actually shape

1221
01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:13,120
what it looks like and leave a better legacy for our kids and grandkids. And part of that

1222
01:59:13,120 --> 01:59:17,280
is as an expanded hospital. Thank you very much, Molly.

1223
01:59:19,490 --> 01:59:22,110
Thank you. I don't see any other questions,

1224
01:59:22,110 --> 01:59:27,050
so thank you very much Melanie for coming here today and your letter will be circulated.

1225
01:59:28,130 --> 01:59:34,670
Our next delegation is Megan Suttergaard and that's from Silver Creek Neighborhood Association.

1226
01:59:41,780 --> 01:59:46,240
Good afternoon Mayor Bennett, councillors and town staff. I wish to thank you again for the

1227
01:59:46,240 --> 01:59:51,380
opportunity to speak today. My name as you know is Megan Suttergaard and I'm speaking today as a

1228
01:59:51,380 --> 01:59:57,000
resident of the proposed Georgetown MTSA area and on behalf of the Silver Creek Neighborhood Association.

1229
01:59:57,000 --> 01:59:58,560
I'm basically

1230
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,860
In the current GO Transit Secondary Plan, we're not anti-development of this area, or not anti-intensification. And we understand that the GO Transit Secondary Plan will take a share of the population coming to town, regardless of the growth concept that is chosen. We just want to work together with you in the town to make sure that we get this right. Before I start, I just want to quickly extend my very deep appreciation for the time that Councillor Johnson and Fogel and Mr. Lentard and town staff have spent answering my many questions.

1231
02:00:29,860 --> 02:00:39,040
by email and zoom meetings and answering questions that have been brought forward by neighbors and members of the association independently of my conversations. I know they've asked some as well.

1232
02:00:39,920 --> 02:00:49,980
It's very, very clear that you're listening to us and that you are taking our comments and requests and questions very seriously and so I really do want to extend my appreciation for that.

1233
02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:57,580
I have delegated this council before and so you might remember that my concerns pertain to the Georgetown MTSA.

1234
02:00:58,180 --> 02:01:07,400
So I understand that the proposed Georgetown MTSA is quite different in its current land use than the other proposed MTSAs in Halton region, with perhaps the exception of Acton.

1235
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:17,880
And when I look at the MTSAs, I see that our neighborhood, which is a stable low density residential neighborhood, is located within the boundary line of the Georgetown MTSA.

1236
02:01:17,880 --> 02:01:22,900
And that represents a significant contrast to the other MTSAs, not just in Halton, but when

1237
02:01:22,900 --> 02:01:28,080
I look to neighboring region of PO, et cetera, I see that the low-density residential areas

1238
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:30,660
of those other MTS have been carved out of the boundary.

1239
02:01:31,540 --> 02:01:35,880
After the many discussions that I referenced, I understand now that it appears a bit too late

1240
02:01:35,880 --> 02:01:40,720
to modify the boundary line, given that a short runway left in the rope of 48 approval process.

1241
02:01:41,840 --> 02:01:46,020
But based on my conversations, I have learned that there is a proposal under consideration

1242
02:01:46,020 --> 02:01:50,980
to add some specific language into Fort Rope of 48 that could direct the local municipalities

1243
02:01:50,980 --> 02:01:57,040
to implement the detailed official plan policies or specific area plans that could identify

1244
02:01:57,040 --> 02:02:02,320
more specific detailed land use policies and plan the most appropriate locations for intensification

1245
02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:07,520
in filling and redevelopment while also recognizing there will be some areas that have limited

1246
02:02:07,520 --> 02:02:13,700
opportunities for intensification such as stable low density residential neighborhoods like ours.

1247
02:02:13,700 --> 02:02:18,560
I'm so appreciative to learn that there is wording like this that is proposed and I know

1248
02:02:18,560 --> 02:02:19,180
it's not approved.

1249
02:02:19,760 --> 02:02:21,360
That could help protect this neighborhood.

1250
02:02:21,600 --> 02:02:24,740
That could be embedded right into the rope of 48 policy.

1251
02:02:25,660 --> 02:02:29,860
I also know that there is, well, I understand that there is a plan for a revision to the secondary

1252
02:02:29,860 --> 02:02:32,900
plan that will involve resident and public inputs.

1253
02:02:34,660 --> 02:02:39,460
In the members of the Civil Creek Residence Association and I really are excited to participate

1254
02:02:39,460 --> 02:02:44,680
in these discussions that could help to shape the land use policies and possible refinements

1255
02:02:44,680 --> 02:02:49,720
to our NTSA area. So thank you for that. So to that end, I'm coming before you today with

1256
02:02:49,720 --> 02:02:56,420
just two questions, and they actually are directed to Mr. Arlandt. The first one is, is the wording

1257
02:02:56,420 --> 02:03:09,300
that you're proposing into the region consistent with what I just mentioned? So should I ask my

1258
02:03:09,300 --> 02:03:14,660
Is that sort of the wording and is the wording public at this point where we can have a look and think about what it says?

1259
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:29,980
Yes, through the Mayor to the delegation. Yes, rope of 48 a draft version is included on the regional council agenda for tomorrow.

1260
02:03:30,940 --> 02:03:42,220
And essentially, the region has done two things. And this is really based upon obviously the feedback that they've gotten from the residents as well as some discussions that I've had directly with Kurt Ben.

1261
02:03:42,220 --> 02:03:44,440
and regarding this particular matter.

1262
02:03:44,680 --> 02:03:47,880
So initially, the region talked about adding an objective

1263
02:03:48,440 --> 02:03:52,940
into role 48 and it basically talks about maximizing

1264
02:03:52,940 --> 02:03:54,940
the number of potential transit users

1265
02:03:54,940 --> 02:03:56,960
within walking distance of a station

1266
02:03:57,380 --> 02:03:59,620
while considering contextually appropriate

1267
02:03:59,620 --> 02:04:01,380
intensification opportunities

1268
02:04:01,380 --> 02:04:03,260
within stable residential neighborhoods

1269
02:04:03,800 --> 02:04:05,480
as determined through the preparation

1270
02:04:05,480 --> 02:04:07,600
of area specific plans.

1271
02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:10,440
Through further discussions with the region,

1272
02:04:10,440 --> 02:04:15,640
we also ask that there be a complementary policy that would work hand in glove with that objective

1273
02:04:15,640 --> 02:04:21,520
that refers specifically to the preparation of secondary plans or updates to secondary plans.

1274
02:04:22,180 --> 02:04:26,780
And that particular provision would enable local municipalities through those reviews to

1275
02:04:26,780 --> 02:04:32,060
specifically identify stable residential neighborhoods where only contextually appropriate

1276
02:04:32,060 --> 02:04:37,300
intensification opportunities and keeping with neighborhood character are contemplated.

1277
02:04:37,300 --> 02:04:42,800
So that is the language that has gone into the revised version of rope of 48.

1278
02:04:45,310 --> 02:04:50,490
Thank you. I appreciate that detail answer. So then my second question is when I hear those words,

1279
02:04:51,090 --> 02:04:56,390
I worry that they're not quite specific enough. And so, you know, and I recognize that there

1280
02:04:56,390 --> 02:05:00,990
might be an interim period where the rope of 48 is approved and the secondary plan has not yet been

1281
02:05:00,990 --> 02:05:08,170
revised or enacted or put into into official status. So I wonder are there planning risks that the

1282
02:05:08,170 --> 02:05:12,670
town and our neighborhood might face in that interim period between the approval and the secondary

1283
02:05:12,670 --> 02:05:19,210
plan revisions. For example, because Ropa 48 will take primacy, I worry that inappropriate development

1284
02:05:19,210 --> 02:05:24,310
applications could come forward in very short order or within that time period anyways.

1285
02:05:24,850 --> 02:05:30,130
That might require the town and the residents to then defend against these things with limited

1286
02:05:30,130 --> 02:05:35,270
kind of policy levers, limited opportunity for recourse. So I wonder whether there are interim

1287
02:05:35,270 --> 02:05:40,350
planning tools beyond just the language in Ropa 48. That could help protect the neighborhood

1288
02:05:40,350 --> 02:05:44,250
from something like this. I'm thinking my mind goes to an interim control bylaw.

1289
02:05:45,270 --> 02:05:50,350
Potentially could be put in place or could these levers be put right into the Ropa 48 language to

1290
02:05:50,350 --> 02:05:55,370
help the town and the residents to have something to stand behind should these should these occur. So

1291
02:05:55,370 --> 02:06:01,210
I guess my next question is can these tools like an interim control bylaw be enshrined right into

1292
02:06:01,210 --> 02:06:08,370
the ROPA-40 policy itself. And if no, is the town able to enact these of its own accord

1293
02:06:08,910 --> 02:06:14,630
in order to think about a whole area and how that might need to be revisited and reviewed,

1294
02:06:15,010 --> 02:06:18,710
not just in light of a specific application, but the applications that could come forward

1295
02:06:18,710 --> 02:06:19,730
to the area itself.

1296
02:06:23,450 --> 02:06:28,350
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So the in-term control by law, that is really, it's a local tool, not

1297
02:06:28,350 --> 02:06:35,990
a regional tool. And what it's designed to do is to allow for a pause for a municipality

1298
02:06:35,990 --> 02:06:40,310
to undertake a planning study. And typically though what it's designed to do is to

1299
02:06:40,310 --> 02:06:46,430
preclude for a one-year period a use that would be permitted as of right under existing

1300
02:06:46,430 --> 02:06:54,350
zoning by-laws. So in the case of the GO station area or military corridor we haven't

1301
02:06:54,350 --> 02:07:00,150
presumed any of the land uses within that area for more intense development.

1302
02:07:01,390 --> 02:07:07,550
So we would effectively, in my view, I don't know that or I don't believe that it is necessary

1303
02:07:07,550 --> 02:07:13,090
to pass an interim control by law at this particular juncture in time.

1304
02:07:14,050 --> 02:07:15,350
That's my take on it.

1305
02:07:16,090 --> 02:07:24,110
My second point that I will mention and in fairness, this is relatively recent information.

1306
02:07:24,790 --> 02:07:28,170
The region is also, and this may give the residents some additional comfort.

1307
02:07:28,290 --> 02:07:35,310
The region is now contemplating, pausing on the densities for the Georgetown and the act

1308
02:07:35,310 --> 02:07:44,350
in MTSA designations that were enshrined in rope of 48 in light of some of the public input

1309
02:07:44,350 --> 02:07:50,270
to allow for additional consultation as well so I think that actually may go a long way towards

1310
02:07:50,270 --> 02:07:54,730
perhaps addressing some of the concerns that you may have right now that the numbers going into

1311
02:07:54,730 --> 02:08:01,170
the Ropa that may lead to some applications quickly coming in and wanting to leverage that

1312
02:08:01,170 --> 02:08:06,570
particular number if you will. Given where the region appears to be heading and deferring those

1313
02:08:06,570 --> 02:08:13,230
particular numbers, I think there's a lot less risk right now in terms of the concern that you've raised.

1314
02:08:13,230 --> 02:08:14,570
So hopefully that helps.

1315
02:08:16,700 --> 02:08:19,720
And if I may because you've just spurred another question in my mind.

1316
02:08:19,860 --> 02:08:21,420
Is it possible then to revisit?

1317
02:08:22,040 --> 02:08:22,940
I guess there's two questions.

1318
02:08:23,340 --> 02:08:24,080
Just to clarify.

1319
02:08:24,560 --> 02:08:28,480
Can does the town have the ability to enact an interim control by-log?

1320
02:08:28,640 --> 02:08:30,700
Should it see fit to do so? That's one question.

1321
02:08:30,780 --> 02:08:33,260
And the other is if there's a potential to revisit the targets.

1322
02:08:33,540 --> 02:08:36,400
Is there a potential to revisit the boundary as well in the MTSA?

1323
02:08:39,310 --> 02:08:41,110
So through the matter there's two questions there.

1324
02:08:41,230 --> 02:08:42,470
One on the interim control by-law.

1325
02:08:42,470 --> 02:08:45,870
But yes, it is a tool that is available to the municipality.

1326
02:08:47,410 --> 02:08:51,270
Past discussions that we've had over the years with our solicitor, it's a tool to be

1327
02:08:51,270 --> 02:08:56,490
used sparingly, and it has to be done for very legitimate planning purposes.

1328
02:08:56,810 --> 02:09:01,910
So typically when something like that comes up, we would go away and do an assessment as

1329
02:09:01,910 --> 02:09:03,210
to whether it's warranted.

1330
02:09:03,550 --> 02:09:07,890
And we would also sit down with our town solicitor and sort of do, I guess, a risk analysis

1331
02:09:07,890 --> 02:09:12,110
and the pros and the cons before taking any such action.

1332
02:09:12,690 --> 02:09:17,930
In terms of the actual boundaries itself, the region is not proposing to revisit the

1333
02:09:17,930 --> 02:09:19,810
boundaries of the two MTSAs.

1334
02:09:20,110 --> 02:09:26,210
It is the two boundaries are largely reflective of work that the town has undertaken to

1335
02:09:26,210 --> 02:09:32,490
date through the Employment Land Needs Study and Complementary Work through the Intensification

1336
02:09:32,490 --> 02:09:33,090
Analysis.

1337
02:09:33,090 --> 02:09:40,590
I think as we have suggested in the past, we are actually seeing potential benefits for

1338
02:09:40,590 --> 02:09:45,970
residents within stable residential areas if they are sitting inside an MTSA because

1339
02:09:45,970 --> 02:09:52,510
the region is proposing that those MTSAs be protected in accordance with Planning Act provisions

1340
02:09:52,510 --> 02:09:57,930
and that would shelter those policies from appeals once the amendment is approved by the province.

1341
02:09:57,930 --> 02:10:04,710
and then similarly once the town completes an update to the GO Station secondary plan and it is approved by the region.

1342
02:10:05,450 --> 02:10:09,110
Any of those updated policies and heights will also be sheltered from appeals.

1343
02:10:09,450 --> 02:10:16,650
So I think from our perspective we're seeing advantages in terms of leaving the low density areas within the boundary.

1344
02:10:20,930 --> 02:10:27,310
Okay, so thank you. So I understand that the policy levers are municipal tool that could be enacted in a last resort type of way.

1345
02:10:27,310 --> 02:10:29,390
and I really do appreciate the thoroughness

1346
02:10:29,390 --> 02:10:30,930
with which you've answered my questions,

1347
02:10:30,930 --> 02:10:32,430
and I appreciate everyone's time today.

1348
02:10:32,570 --> 02:10:32,870
Thank you.

1349
02:10:33,610 --> 02:10:36,210
Thank you very much for joining us this afternoon.

1350
02:10:37,170 --> 02:10:40,230
Our next delegation is Gary Gregoros

1351
02:10:40,230 --> 02:10:41,330
from Matamie Homes.

1352
02:10:58,680 --> 02:11:01,440
Your worships are I'm just hoping I'm online.

1353
02:11:02,820 --> 02:11:04,260
Yep, we can hear you, Gary.

1354
02:11:05,160 --> 02:11:05,720
Oh, perfect.

1355
02:11:06,180 --> 02:11:09,180
Good afternoon, Mayor and members of Council.

1356
02:11:09,880 --> 02:11:10,960
For those that don't know me,

1357
02:11:11,300 --> 02:11:12,780
my name's Gary Gregoros.

1358
02:11:12,780 --> 02:11:15,760
I'm a senior vice president with Madame E. Holmes.

1359
02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:21,920
I live in Paul Regen, I've raised a family here for many, many years.

1360
02:11:22,820 --> 02:11:27,840
I'm here to speak on behalf of the Joint Venture Partnership that owns 200 acres immediately

1361
02:11:27,840 --> 02:11:33,880
south of 10 side road situated between eight to nine lines, excuse me.

1362
02:11:34,460 --> 02:11:40,160
I'd like to thank Council for the opportunity to speak and I echo Mr. Mills' comments right

1363
02:11:40,160 --> 02:11:46,660
at the beginning that I commend staff as well for very well articulated, well-worded,

1364
02:11:46,680 --> 02:11:53,220
professionally written staff report. And I seek councils indulgence. I have not delegated

1365
02:11:53,220 --> 02:11:59,460
to a council in over 25 years. So I'm going to stumble and fumble, but I felt it was so important

1366
02:11:59,460 --> 02:12:03,740
because we were at such a crossroad, and I really wanted to bring a different perspective.

1367
02:12:04,320 --> 02:12:08,260
And I know Councillor Johnson's dying asked me a question about all that and stuff like that.

1368
02:12:08,260 --> 02:12:15,160
So, I'm ready and willing, and I'd also like to point out that Maddie takes a very

1369
02:12:15,160 --> 02:12:18,120
different perspective for growth and growth management in the region of

1370
02:12:18,120 --> 02:12:23,300
Hilton, and it's for obvious reasons. We started in 1978 as a custom home

1371
02:12:23,300 --> 02:12:27,500
builder in the city of Burlington, and we've built thousands of houses and

1372
02:12:27,500 --> 02:12:33,500
communities in all four locations, and either than us of today we still have

1373
02:12:33,500 --> 02:12:36,840
of low holdings and land assets in all four communities.

1374
02:12:37,400 --> 02:12:40,420
So our perspective isn't just honed in on Halton Hills

1375
02:12:40,420 --> 02:12:41,180
for this example.

1376
02:12:41,740 --> 02:12:44,200
It's on all communities and all desires

1377
02:12:44,200 --> 02:12:46,260
at each of those respective locations.

1378
02:12:46,960 --> 02:12:49,600
Council may not be aware as well

1379
02:12:50,240 --> 02:12:52,340
that we have a high density division.

1380
02:12:53,120 --> 02:12:56,320
And that high density division has been active

1381
02:12:56,320 --> 02:12:59,660
and builds mid rise to high rise apartments

1382
02:12:59,660 --> 02:13:01,280
from the city of Toronto.

1383
02:13:01,280 --> 02:13:06,640
So we currently, if I could take you around, show you six buildings under construction

1384
02:13:06,640 --> 02:13:14,280
today, four in Oakville, two in Milton, and several, several others planned.

1385
02:13:14,920 --> 02:13:22,720
And I guess also, just to that point, three of the six are currently being prepared to

1386
02:13:22,720 --> 02:13:23,480
be geothermal.

1387
02:13:23,920 --> 02:13:29,320
So we are also consciously aware of climate change as Councilor Fulgo may be asking me about

1388
02:13:29,320 --> 02:13:30,960
questions related to that.

1389
02:13:32,230 --> 02:13:39,580
I think the regions in a very unique situation, Oakville and Burlington have reached their

1390
02:13:39,580 --> 02:13:46,640
maturation points in time where they are appropriately and wanting to pursue higher

1391
02:13:46,640 --> 02:13:49,820
order density and proximity to its transit notes.

1392
02:13:50,580 --> 02:13:58,040
And kudos to them, intensification in the right locations is an appropriate planning strategy

1393
02:13:58,040 --> 02:14:02,560
and should be pursued. Milton, as I think one of the Councillors alluded to earlier,

1394
02:14:02,880 --> 02:14:08,120
is fully committed to pursuing its balanced growth for its community.

1395
02:14:08,880 --> 02:14:14,460
Houghton Hills is at a unique crossroads. This is the first time in its history where

1396
02:14:14,460 --> 02:14:21,540
Lake Bay Services will be at its front door. And my opinion, I think it provides the opportunity

1397
02:14:21,540 --> 02:14:30,240
for contextually appropriate intensification to pick up on Mr. Lynn Hart's words and without

1398
02:14:30,240 --> 02:14:35,940
sounding too presumptuous, some additional modest green field expansion. This is not

1399
02:14:35,940 --> 02:14:40,360
a one-size-fits-all. It has to be tailored, in my opinion, to the needs and the wants

1400
02:14:40,360 --> 02:14:44,640
of the community. And I know I'm under a time constraint, so I really can't get into a lot

1401
02:14:44,640 --> 02:14:50,020
of the details that I wanted to talk about with respect to immigration, planning policy

1402
02:14:50,020 --> 02:14:54,440
in climate change, I do want to point out that in the next three years,

1403
02:15:09,800 --> 02:15:30,060
So, I just wanted to highlight that and then I'm going to read what my final submission is. And it's my respectful submission that council should be promoting a shift for additional density and job opportunities within the existing built boundary through intensification.

1404
02:15:30,060 --> 02:15:44,780
Good development in the right locations, considering impacts to stable neighborhoods and local contacts supported by transit while maximizing existing infrastructure is prudent place making.

1405
02:15:45,220 --> 02:15:49,780
We support it and sound from the discussions today so it is most of the council.

1406
02:15:49,780 --> 02:15:55,660
Also, we submit that a modest expansion to the urban boundary is also prudent.

1407
02:15:56,380 --> 02:16:02,800
It represents good place making in locations that are logical extensions to the existing

1408
02:16:02,800 --> 02:16:09,340
urban boundary, whereby the utilization of existing and future infrastructure and has

1409
02:16:09,340 --> 02:16:12,840
transit opportunities like the land south of Tenside Road.

1410
02:16:13,760 --> 02:16:19,240
Furthermore, we believe a modest expansion is necessary for the planning of other essential

1411
02:16:19,240 --> 02:16:26,840
and required town facilities, including a possible new hospital site or new community

1412
02:16:26,840 --> 02:16:31,860
park plan, and Mr. Bailey's letter and Mr. Harris's letter aptly points that out.

1413
02:16:32,740 --> 02:16:38,520
Finally, it's our view that a minor expansion addresses the growth plan and will result in

1414
02:16:38,520 --> 02:16:41,580
a made in Houghton Hills planning decision.

1415
02:16:42,540 --> 02:16:48,120
To conclude our respectful submission that a modest urban boundary expansion consistent

1416
02:16:48,120 --> 02:16:55,720
Assistant with staff report recommendation provides the right balance to good place making for the town and should be approved.

1417
02:16:56,220 --> 02:17:01,160
I thank you, and I would be grateful to answer any questions.

1418
02:17:02,760 --> 02:17:05,260
Thank you very much for your presentation.

1419
02:17:05,940 --> 02:17:08,660
I do have Councillor Somerville first.

1420
02:17:10,220 --> 02:17:12,940
I have three quick questions, I hope Mr. Mayor.

1421
02:17:12,940 --> 02:17:17,640
So I will probably ask the one that Councilor Johnson was going to ask from having worked

1422
02:17:17,640 --> 02:17:24,420
on Vision Georgetown as well and over that time and we worked with the land owners almost

1423
02:17:24,420 --> 02:17:30,200
ten years and we got to the end and it is disappointing that it was appealed to what's

1424
02:17:30,200 --> 02:17:32,620
now the Ontario land tribunal.

1425
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:38,860
And I just got asked if you have any comments on that because I know some of us feel frustration

1426
02:17:38,860 --> 02:17:39,920
that we did that work.

1427
02:17:39,920 --> 02:17:45,460
So we don't very often get to have people who are from that group here. So can you comment on that Gary?

1428
02:17:46,540 --> 02:17:48,580
Yeah, I guess I'm taking one for the team, but

1429
02:17:49,360 --> 02:17:51,360
so so my first my first

1430
02:17:52,500 --> 02:17:56,760
First, I'd like to state that I can only speak on behalf of that. I mean, I'm not I'm not here or

1431
02:17:57,420 --> 02:18:05,440
Able to speak on behalf of the landowners group or any of the other other landowners who may have issues and have different

1432
02:18:06,260 --> 02:18:08,160
And have their own appeals in place

1433
02:18:09,380 --> 02:18:15,220
And I know the matter as I'll do, that the matter's before the OLT, and I will respond

1434
02:18:15,220 --> 02:18:19,520
knowing this, meaning I'm going to be really careful just to be quite candid.

1435
02:18:21,180 --> 02:18:26,120
Councilor Somerville, we too are equally disappointed having worked with the town over

1436
02:18:26,120 --> 02:18:30,760
the intervening period as part of the Vision Georgetown planning exercise.

1437
02:18:31,680 --> 02:18:37,180
And I'd like to point out that any decision to appeal is not a decision that we took lightly

1438
02:18:37,180 --> 02:18:40,040
or flippantly without thorough consideration.

1439
02:18:40,960 --> 02:18:43,360
As you can appreciate in a most council can,

1440
02:18:44,140 --> 02:18:46,360
that we made significant investment

1441
02:18:46,580 --> 02:18:48,880
through the acquisitions that we've made.

1442
02:18:49,540 --> 02:18:53,080
And as council knows, this landowner group

1443
02:18:53,080 --> 02:18:55,960
committed to the region through the allocation program,

1444
02:18:56,420 --> 02:19:00,240
$150 million of prepaid development charge money

1445
02:19:00,240 --> 02:19:03,920
to extend this municipal services

1446
02:19:03,920 --> 02:19:06,600
to the front door of a vision Georgetown.

1447
02:19:07,280 --> 02:19:11,500
It doesn't make prudent business to commit funds

1448
02:19:11,840 --> 02:19:13,560
and delay community building

1449
02:19:14,320 --> 02:19:16,720
unless the impact was so significant

1450
02:19:17,560 --> 02:19:19,060
to justify the appeal.

1451
02:19:19,820 --> 02:19:22,140
So it wasn't as though it was done lightly.

1452
02:19:22,760 --> 02:19:24,500
And to Councillor Johnson's point,

1453
02:19:24,960 --> 02:19:25,920
I will answer it.

1454
02:19:26,120 --> 02:19:27,880
So what are the reasons for the appeal?

1455
02:19:28,500 --> 02:19:30,960
And I think there's some broken telephone going on here,

1456
02:19:31,060 --> 02:19:32,900
and I hope I'm wrong,

1457
02:19:32,900 --> 02:19:34,000
but I think there is.

1458
02:19:36,150 --> 02:19:39,110
Our fundamental issues, not in these fundamental issues, have been

1459
02:19:39,110 --> 02:19:46,310
consistent since day one. And there really are four core items. The first being stormwater

1460
02:19:46,310 --> 02:19:52,850
management and drainage channels with location, design, etc. Natural heritage issues,

1461
02:19:53,750 --> 02:19:59,350
buffers, width and extents, and densities. And I'm going to correct

1462
02:19:59,350 --> 02:20:04,670
Councilor Johnson's understanding that in fact, at least as it relates to the

1463
02:20:04,670 --> 02:20:08,390
Miami plan, we're actually looking to increase the densities, not lower them.

1464
02:20:08,850 --> 02:20:14,590
So, we're not trying to unravel the good work that we did with Vision Georgetown.

1465
02:20:14,970 --> 02:20:21,030
We think we needed more density, more flexibility of alternative bill forms to respond to the many

1466
02:20:21,030 --> 02:20:27,250
issues that are being raised as part of this discussion, including the need for densification.

1467
02:20:27,250 --> 02:20:35,930
I guess the last point that I'd like to raise is council has to understand that a lot of

1468
02:20:35,930 --> 02:20:42,490
these amendments or modifications were made by the region and they were made very late

1469
02:20:42,490 --> 02:20:45,270
in the planning process and we had little time to respond.

1470
02:20:46,010 --> 02:20:51,850
So our issues, for the most part, have little to do with the policies that were originally

1471
02:20:51,850 --> 02:20:59,410
adopted by this council and more to do with the policies that were in this case approved

1472
02:20:59,410 --> 02:21:05,330
through notice of decision by the region. So it was the region's modifications that drove

1473
02:21:05,330 --> 02:21:10,090
us to make the decisions to appeal in part, and there were some fundamental issues that

1474
02:21:10,090 --> 02:21:15,590
we needed answers for that simply we weren't satisfied with or were significant enough

1475
02:21:15,590 --> 02:21:19,910
to impact our land planning that we thought it was appropriate to appeal.

1476
02:21:20,750 --> 02:21:26,290
However, having said an answer to the historical question, can I talk more about the goal

1477
02:21:26,290 --> 02:21:26,830
for it?

1478
02:21:26,910 --> 02:21:31,210
Because really that's more important than where we are, it's where we're going.

1479
02:21:33,730 --> 02:21:38,550
And as I said, we're under LPAT and we've all got to be careful in what we say.

1480
02:21:39,110 --> 02:21:40,750
But this is public information.

1481
02:21:40,990 --> 02:21:45,150
At the first LPAT committee, we asked for mediation.

1482
02:21:45,990 --> 02:21:52,270
I've gone through mediation personally for many, many times, including Robert 38, which

1483
02:21:52,270 --> 02:21:58,350
has spent the extent of amount of time discussing with people across the table to narrow

1484
02:21:58,350 --> 02:22:00,930
our issues or eliminate our issues.

1485
02:22:01,510 --> 02:22:10,710
We still believe, quite strongly, that mediation, not litigation, will lead to an outcome of a

1486
02:22:10,710 --> 02:22:11,250
win-win.

1487
02:22:11,250 --> 02:22:26,390
So we're hopeful that the mediation request will be positively considered by this council at some point in time, hopefully in the future, and that we can sit around a table and talk about what these issues are and hopefully find some common ground.

1488
02:22:27,090 --> 02:22:28,890
Sorry, sorry for the long wind and answer.

1489
02:22:29,850 --> 02:22:33,950
No, you were, you must have anticipated the question because you were, you were prepared

1490
02:22:33,950 --> 02:22:39,810
and I know we can all follow up on the, on the, on doing, you know, the last piece that

1491
02:22:39,810 --> 02:22:44,450
you mentioned about the mediation. So the other one I would, I'd like to ask you are one

1492
02:22:44,450 --> 02:22:50,250
of the other ones is the intensification that some people are suggesting with 3B. Option

1493
02:22:50,250 --> 02:22:55,650
3B that would be within the current boundary. And I know you guys build everything from single

1494
02:22:55,650 --> 02:23:02,130
family to stack to towers and everything. What challenges and extra difficulties you

1495
02:23:02,130 --> 02:23:08,030
have when you're working in existing neighborhoods, it's a two-part, and the other one is the

1496
02:23:08,030 --> 02:23:14,810
regional allocation program, as it's set up today, is really geared more for single family,

1497
02:23:14,890 --> 02:23:23,350
as opposed to the high rises than that as well. So, would we have to do dramatic changes to be able

1498
02:23:23,350 --> 02:23:25,110
to even look at doing some of those.

1499
02:23:26,330 --> 02:23:29,730
Yeah, great, two tough questions.

1500
02:23:30,070 --> 02:23:32,410
So, Council, please bear with me.

1501
02:23:32,530 --> 02:23:33,890
So I'll answer the first question.

1502
02:23:35,350 --> 02:23:37,150
Intensification, as I said at the outset,

1503
02:23:37,170 --> 02:23:38,790
isn't appropriate and necessary.

1504
02:23:39,330 --> 02:23:41,330
It also is perhaps the most complicated.

1505
02:23:42,590 --> 02:23:45,890
And I think Mr. Lowe's touched upon it during his delegation.

1506
02:23:46,890 --> 02:23:49,970
Generally speaking, those properties are active businesses.

1507
02:23:49,970 --> 02:24:00,110
So trying to assemble a lands or acquire the lands requires some unique finesse in land

1508
02:24:00,110 --> 02:24:03,330
acquisition, and usually it requires assembly.

1509
02:24:04,910 --> 02:24:11,970
It also, in my opinion, having done this for a little while, is one of the most unpredictable

1510
02:24:11,970 --> 02:24:16,050
land supplies you could rely upon to plan your community.

1511
02:24:16,950 --> 02:24:20,810
Because none of it, in theory, is owned by the development interest.

1512
02:24:21,190 --> 02:24:28,950
It's all owned by landowners or active businesses that are there because they're making a profit,

1513
02:24:29,110 --> 02:24:35,050
and I would imagine, and are active in looking towards, you know,

1514
02:24:35,250 --> 02:24:36,950
staying there in those locations.

1515
02:24:37,770 --> 02:24:41,370
I also think you got to think about what happens in intervening periods.

1516
02:24:41,370 --> 02:24:49,730
When you're infilling and intensifying, some uses move out quickly and others stick around.

1517
02:24:50,630 --> 02:24:58,910
And so trying to intensify in these locations sometimes, not always, but sometimes creates land use conflicts.

1518
02:24:59,510 --> 02:25:06,530
Placing residential next to a tire shop or a gas station or a car body shop.

1519
02:25:07,130 --> 02:25:13,270
In your intervening periods there's lots of disruption to both business and a resident.

1520
02:25:14,350 --> 02:25:19,690
The other thing that always seems to be missing in the discussion when we talk about intensification

1521
02:25:19,690 --> 02:25:22,990
from my perspective is no one's done the land budget.

1522
02:25:23,470 --> 02:25:28,710
No one's said to us yet to date that you can actually fit all these units and these people

1523
02:25:28,710 --> 02:25:35,070
in these locations and what I mean by that is if we're building intensifying communities,

1524
02:25:35,070 --> 02:25:42,570
We still need parks, we still need schools, we likely need to retrofit for storm water

1525
02:25:42,570 --> 02:25:47,930
management ponds, roads still need to be widened, sidewalks still need to be built.

1526
02:25:48,770 --> 02:25:54,910
It takes much more energy, probably capital, to intensify in these locations.

1527
02:25:55,990 --> 02:26:01,550
So in my perspective, although intensification is something we should absolutely pursue,

1528
02:26:01,550 --> 02:26:15,570
It comes with its challenges, and as I set up the outset, for those reasons, as to why I believe it's an unpredictable land supply, and not something that I think you should be planning on solely.

1529
02:26:15,890 --> 02:26:22,090
I think it's important to plan for it, but you can't plan solely on it to deliver your housing needs.

1530
02:26:23,550 --> 02:26:31,850
So, now the more complicated answer, the Regional Halt and Allocation Program, and having

1531
02:26:31,850 --> 02:26:37,850
lived through them since 2008, there are many components to the Halt and Allocation Program,

1532
02:26:38,190 --> 02:26:45,110
but for those who don't understand it, it's really for the last go, the 2020, which is

1533
02:26:45,110 --> 02:26:49,950
where the landowner group took 3,000 units in this community.

1534
02:26:50,330 --> 02:26:53,070
It's a prepayment of your development charges.

1535
02:26:53,850 --> 02:27:02,450
So we've prepaid our development charges, which are about $40,000, an SDE for each unit,

1536
02:27:02,790 --> 02:27:03,950
single detached equivalent.

1537
02:27:05,230 --> 02:27:12,510
When the region struck this allocation program, it was predicated on exactly what you indicated

1538
02:27:12,510 --> 02:27:16,630
to Councillor Somerville, it being related to Greenfield development.

1539
02:27:17,390 --> 02:27:24,330
And the theory being is that the low-density housing providers were benefiting and were

1540
02:27:24,330 --> 02:27:31,270
in a financial position, I'll call it, to front-end finance their development charges.

1541
02:27:32,130 --> 02:27:35,150
The business model for high-density is very different.

1542
02:27:35,370 --> 02:27:41,010
And if you actually look at the way the allocation program is evolved, it's actually tried to

1543
02:27:41,010 --> 02:27:47,950
anticipate that shift in housing and even under the last program, the way in which high

1544
02:27:47,950 --> 02:27:52,290
density residential is actually dealt with is different than single detached equivalent.

1545
02:27:52,870 --> 02:27:59,810
They have a longer period of time in which to pay for their prepay for their development

1546
02:27:59,810 --> 02:28:08,550
charge. When you now put that into an intensification concept, none of the land is currently owned,

1547
02:28:08,550 --> 02:28:11,870
I would say in large measure by development interests.

1548
02:28:12,490 --> 02:28:19,070
So who in fact is going to front end the required improvements that you're going to need to

1549
02:28:19,070 --> 02:28:25,310
improve the roads, bit by the parks, build the school, buy the school sites, build the school sites?

1550
02:28:25,870 --> 02:28:32,370
I think there's going to be a disconnect between the allocation program that currently exists,

1551
02:28:32,810 --> 02:28:37,250
I'm not saying it can't be adjusted, but the one that currently exists and the one that's going

1552
02:28:37,250 --> 02:28:39,430
to be put in place in the future.

1553
02:28:40,150 --> 02:28:46,810
I believe that the region has a very, very appropriate program where growth pays for

1554
02:28:46,810 --> 02:28:47,250
itself.

1555
02:28:47,810 --> 02:28:53,770
And I think this reliance on intensification and this unpredictable land supply, I'll

1556
02:28:53,770 --> 02:28:56,710
go out on a limb and say it puts the region at risk financially.

1557
02:28:57,350 --> 02:29:02,650
I can't see how it all is to do it unless someone comes up with a bucket of money, or the taxpayer

1558
02:29:02,650 --> 02:29:10,890
in this case, front-end finances all that work, and I know that's a lightning rod, but I said it.

1559
02:29:11,510 --> 02:29:16,330
Well, that's okay. Sometimes lightning isn't bad, you know, as long as they're not playing hockey,

1560
02:29:16,630 --> 02:29:22,650
you just have to ask the mayor about that. Thank you for that for your comments, and I appreciate

1561
02:29:22,650 --> 02:29:28,510
you being up front with us as well. And I would love to see some of the high-rise

1562
02:29:29,770 --> 02:29:33,730
product that is being built at a, you know, an appropriate time when we can do a better

1563
02:29:33,730 --> 02:29:37,630
lap because I've seen, you know, the low rise, what you've done, the ego. I've seen some

1564
02:29:37,630 --> 02:29:41,470
of the stack. I would absolutely love to see what is being done with the high rise words.

1565
02:29:41,790 --> 02:29:42,550
Thank you so much.

1566
02:29:44,740 --> 02:29:46,720
Thank you. I have Councillor Johnson.

1567
02:29:49,980 --> 02:29:52,900
Well, Gary, you know me too well, I guess.

1568
02:29:54,800 --> 02:29:56,760
You hit the nail on the head there. So,

1569
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:29,700
It was nice to hear you just reply that it was nothing to do with what we did, that it's all the region's fault, which I'm sure that, anyway, I'll leave it there. But I think I just wanted to put it put out there that some of the things you mentioned, natural heritage, storm order management, those are those are requirements, environmental requirements, and I know conservation. Halton was involved and probably credit valley conservation. So those are things that really have to be worked out.

1570
02:30:29,700 --> 02:30:36,560
and you know as well as I do that you can't cut corners when it comes to safety for the people

1571
02:30:36,560 --> 02:30:42,320
that will live there and sledding and all that sort of thing. So I just wanted to mention that,

1572
02:30:42,440 --> 02:30:48,500
not really a question because Councillor Somerville asked it. But I just wanted to comment to you

1573
02:30:48,500 --> 02:30:54,760
or clarify that when I said that madamee was decreasing the densities, it wasn't in Bishop George

1574
02:30:54,760 --> 02:31:08,420
but it was that site at the corner of Mountain View in Nicole that was designated for two 10 story apartments and now contains, I don't know how many townhouses, but certainly not the number of people that could have lived in those two 10 story apartment buildings.

1575
02:31:09,780 --> 02:31:21,880
So that was the site that I was specifically talking about. It's too bad your your high density division wasn't around then because maybe there would have been two really attractive buildings. I know you build a good product.

1576
02:31:22,900 --> 02:31:30,800
It would have been nice to have something there that would have provided that kind of housing

1577
02:31:30,800 --> 02:31:35,000
in a way that was attractive and people would want to live there.

1578
02:31:35,260 --> 02:31:38,720
And I think just a comment too, sometimes people don't want to live in apartments

1579
02:31:38,720 --> 02:31:41,920
because they aren't very attractive.

1580
02:31:42,140 --> 02:31:47,940
Everyone wants to live in a nice building or house or whatever they choose or kind of forward to buy.

1581
02:31:47,940 --> 02:31:52,420
So what they look what you know curve appeal I think is used by real estate

1582
02:31:53,160 --> 02:31:58,500
People and and that's what we would hope that could be provided in a high density situation

1583
02:31:58,500 --> 02:31:59,300
So I'm sorry

1584
02:31:59,300 --> 02:32:05,580
I didn't have a question because it was answered but I had to say my piece to Gary since he mentioned me. Thanks mr. Mayor

1585
02:32:06,340 --> 02:32:12,180
Mr. Mayor can I can I just respond quickly to to counselor Jones and so on that's because I just don't know what I had

1586
02:32:12,180 --> 02:32:16,400
Sorry, thank you. So I want to build on what mr. Lowes said and

1587
02:32:17,760 --> 02:32:20,520
Councilor Johnson, I think people will want to live in apartments.

1588
02:32:20,860 --> 02:32:25,680
I don't think that that's something that is never going to go away.

1589
02:32:25,900 --> 02:32:31,720
I think the challenge we have, and Mr. Lowes hit it right on the head, is how do we make

1590
02:32:31,720 --> 02:32:37,840
them attractive and how do we make it comparable from an affordability perspective to live

1591
02:32:37,840 --> 02:32:40,260
in the same square footage or near square footage.

1592
02:32:40,260 --> 02:32:46,700
And the only other dimension that I would add to the dialog on that is we fail to, if

1593
02:32:46,700 --> 02:32:53,760
you're talking about condominium apartments, we fail to build in and to the financing

1594
02:32:53,760 --> 02:32:58,540
of those or the affordability of those, the condominium component of it.

1595
02:32:59,360 --> 02:33:04,100
So on average costs of about 50 cents a square foot for a condominium fee.

1596
02:33:04,100 --> 02:33:10,820
So, on top of the unit being more expensive, there is also the additional cost of paying

1597
02:33:10,820 --> 02:33:12,100
the condominium fee.

1598
02:33:12,980 --> 02:33:21,100
And I think that really kind of tips the scales for some people to be, it just becomes

1599
02:33:21,100 --> 02:33:22,540
unaffordable for them.

1600
02:33:23,280 --> 02:33:28,680
Certainly people can and will live in apartments with families, where I'm not suggesting otherwise.

1601
02:33:29,120 --> 02:33:32,180
I think it's just going to take some time for us to get there.

1602
02:33:32,180 --> 02:33:38,360
and I just think it's going to be a slower take-up because I think people will drive till they qualify.

1603
02:33:39,200 --> 02:33:44,760
And as a resident of Houghton region, I always get concerned that they just pass by and through Houghton

1604
02:33:44,760 --> 02:33:51,880
and end up in KW and other communities because we can't have accommodation for our children or

1605
02:33:51,880 --> 02:33:58,680
our children's children. That's the concern that I have with any extreme position being way too

1606
02:33:58,680 --> 02:34:02,760
much boundary expansion or way too much of one housing form in this case apartments.

1607
02:34:07,320 --> 02:34:10,740
Okay. Thank you. Now I have calcifogal.

1608
02:34:13,180 --> 02:34:15,160
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you, Gary,

1609
02:34:15,420 --> 02:34:20,480
for your presentation, making your debut appearance. That's good. You did well.

1610
02:34:23,720 --> 02:34:29,280
Well, one thing is I'm glad to hear that you've diversified and are now doing some high rise.

1611
02:34:29,840 --> 02:34:35,860
And you talked about energy efficiency for cooling and heating, which is great.

1612
02:34:38,080 --> 02:34:45,080
Like to me, that's part of driving down those condo fees is to reduce the carrying cost

1613
02:34:45,080 --> 02:34:46,440
of the building.

1614
02:34:47,660 --> 02:34:53,120
And I think that's part of the secret to this thing is that we've got to get that under control

1615
02:34:53,120 --> 02:34:55,900
because the cost of fuel is only going to go up.

1616
02:34:58,060 --> 02:35:05,120
So good on that. Are you saying or not saying that you're supporting the staff report?

1617
02:35:06,240 --> 02:35:16,020
I'm supporting the staff report and as I said, modest expansion option two would be my humble recommendation.

1618
02:35:17,200 --> 02:35:22,060
I just wanted to be clear on that. And the last thing is on the allocation program,

1619
02:35:22,060 --> 02:35:29,720
Do you know of any other regions that have an allocation program to finance their water and waste water?

1620
02:35:30,580 --> 02:35:39,940
I can tell you this because I negotiated this one as well, the region of Durham for the seat and community has a similar program.

1621
02:35:40,720 --> 02:35:42,900
But no other can you not shouldn't say that.

1622
02:35:43,300 --> 02:35:49,400
There's some communities in Cinco County, but generally the GTA communities, no one else has the program.

1623
02:35:49,400 --> 02:35:51,120
There's been a lot of discussion about it.

1624
02:35:51,580 --> 02:35:54,560
I know our neighbors to the east have considered it

1625
02:35:54,560 --> 02:35:57,660
by being peal, but no other community like York,

1626
02:35:59,480 --> 02:36:02,900
or big parts of Durham that I'm familiar with.

1627
02:36:04,890 --> 02:36:09,270
So the region was at risk with this program?

1628
02:36:10,870 --> 02:36:12,470
Yeah, and I gotta be careful,

1629
02:36:12,670 --> 02:36:15,190
because I'm not a fear monger, Councillor Foglioz,

1630
02:36:15,270 --> 02:36:17,350
you know, but what I'm saying to you is

1631
02:36:17,350 --> 02:36:26,550
When we've relied upon the development industry that have predictable land supply, predictable

1632
02:36:26,550 --> 02:36:34,530
timing that need the available services to deliver the Greenfield developments and in many

1633
02:36:34,530 --> 02:36:41,830
of the instances that we speak of, it becomes more predictable or manageable when we start

1634
02:36:41,830 --> 02:36:45,590
to retrofit into a built community.

1635
02:36:45,590 --> 02:36:52,010
It becomes more of a challenge because the A, the land mass isn't there, it may not

1636
02:36:52,010 --> 02:36:54,750
be owned by any development interests at the outset.

1637
02:36:55,510 --> 02:37:03,430
So who's going to front-end finance what may be extremely expensive retrofitting of

1638
02:37:03,430 --> 02:37:04,830
pipes, ponds, and roads?

1639
02:37:05,730 --> 02:37:10,510
And heaven forbid, no schools and parks are in proximity.

1640
02:37:10,510 --> 02:37:16,770
So, that is what I mean by there may be challenges and risk maybe too strong a word.

1641
02:37:17,590 --> 02:37:23,870
If you rely upon that form of housing or that type of housing, i.e. intensification, to

1642
02:37:23,870 --> 02:37:28,110
front-end finance the reagent's allocation program.

1643
02:37:28,450 --> 02:37:29,270
That's really my point.

1644
02:37:30,590 --> 02:37:36,590
So, we're changing from a changing situation because we've got Oakville and Burlington built

1645
02:37:36,590 --> 02:37:36,950
out.

1646
02:37:36,950 --> 02:37:42,950
like obviously if they keep building we need more capacity and we have to pay for it a different

1647
02:37:42,950 --> 02:37:50,110
way. Again there's smarter people who'll be thinking about this in different ways than me

1648
02:37:50,110 --> 02:37:59,610
but my gut tells me yeah that's that's exactly it. Councillor Folgo. Thank you very much for your

1649
02:37:59,610 --> 02:38:07,670
Your comments, kick it, sorry, your worship, can I answer council of four was one more question

1650
02:38:07,670 --> 02:38:10,090
because you didn't ask it, but I really wanted to make the point.

1651
02:38:10,610 --> 02:38:11,350
Yes, go ahead.

1652
02:38:12,490 --> 02:38:21,770
Sorry, and I don't mean to monopolize the time, but there's one thing that I put in my

1653
02:38:21,770 --> 02:38:25,910
submission that I thought was really important, I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else,

1654
02:38:25,910 --> 02:38:33,470
is that the Ontario Building Code and the National Building Code is going to be changed by 2030.

1655
02:38:34,150 --> 02:38:37,690
And it's going to mandate that zero-ready homes.

1656
02:38:39,310 --> 02:38:48,450
And so, what our point is is, in the Greenfield, we will be required by law call it

1657
02:38:48,450 --> 02:38:54,790
to actually build houses, communities that are net zero ready.

1658
02:38:55,810 --> 02:39:01,450
And I have not heard that at all in the dialogue, I am not sure if it is built in any of the

1659
02:39:01,970 --> 02:39:03,950
models regarded in greenhouse gas.

1660
02:39:04,570 --> 02:39:08,250
But I really thought that that was an important thing to point out.

1661
02:39:08,670 --> 02:39:15,470
Because I think it is going to do not everything, you know, build a 15 minute community as Mr.

1662
02:39:15,470 --> 02:39:19,790
those points out, certainly a lot of the federal government changes with respect to electrical

1663
02:39:19,790 --> 02:39:22,530
vehicles, fossil fuel change, climate change.

1664
02:39:23,010 --> 02:39:28,150
I just want to do to know and emphasize that point that there's more things that we can

1665
02:39:28,150 --> 02:39:35,550
do and we'll be doing to make these things more accommodating to deal with the real climate

1666
02:39:36,150 --> 02:39:36,870
change crisis.

1667
02:39:38,190 --> 02:39:42,790
Okay, so if I could comment on that, that's the first I've heard that there is any sort of

1668
02:39:42,790 --> 02:39:45,950
commitment to net zero by 2030 for the building code.

1669
02:39:46,210 --> 02:39:50,590
All I've ever had is the building industry fighting back

1670
02:39:50,590 --> 02:39:53,590
and others of us out there fighting to move it forward

1671
02:39:54,150 --> 02:39:58,010
and kind of inching along at a snail's pace

1672
02:39:58,010 --> 02:40:01,730
when we need to go away faster to provide homes

1673
02:40:01,730 --> 02:40:03,010
that are cheaper to operate.

1674
02:40:04,070 --> 02:40:06,890
And yeah, they're a little more expensive to start with,

1675
02:40:06,930 --> 02:40:09,930
I guess, but you do get payback on it.

1676
02:40:09,930 --> 02:40:15,770
And if you can get there, then, you know, it really does change the conversation completely.

1677
02:40:16,950 --> 02:40:22,710
So that, you know, I'm glad that you interrupted and said, yes, let me say this because I hadn't

1678
02:40:22,710 --> 02:40:26,870
asked it because that is the first I have heard of that.

1679
02:40:27,170 --> 02:40:34,890
And to what extent are you saying that it's guaranteed or expected or what language would

1680
02:40:34,890 --> 02:40:35,470
you use?

1681
02:40:36,450 --> 02:40:43,990
I would say it is certain. I mean, I think there's a lot of a lot more dialogue that needs to take place, but it is it is well underway.

1682
02:40:44,930 --> 02:40:58,170
I would also point out, Councillor Folgolette, in my submission, since 2006, madamey, at least, I can't speak for other builders have been building energy star compliant houses.

1683
02:40:58,170 --> 02:41:03,910
Over 20,000 houses were the largest in North America, which exceed current building

1684
02:41:03,910 --> 02:41:10,370
code standards, and so the way I understand the new code, there's going to be five tiers.

1685
02:41:11,030 --> 02:41:14,730
Energy stars at three, net zero, ready's five.

1686
02:41:15,350 --> 02:41:28,150
So we've got two more levels to go, and in fairness, like the auto industry, the industry

1687
02:41:28,150 --> 02:41:33,170
up. It's similar to the auto industry where they're going to implement net fossil fuel

1688
02:41:33,170 --> 02:41:40,050
ready car, no net fossil fuel cars by 20, I think it's 2050 ultimately, but it gives

1689
02:41:40,050 --> 02:41:44,430
the industry some time. So, I think the needle is going to move, Councillor Folwell,

1690
02:41:44,570 --> 02:41:50,230
and I think it's a good thing. I think you're absolutely 100% right? These houses can be more

1691
02:41:50,230 --> 02:41:56,630
energy efficient. Should be any cheaper efficient. And at the end of the day, the cost of these things

1692
02:41:56,630 --> 02:42:02,570
work becoming less and less of a barrier because it's becoming more mainstream.

1693
02:42:04,680 --> 02:42:07,760
That how you intend to build and vision Georgetown?

1694
02:42:08,960 --> 02:42:15,840
Absolutely. We would be building both energy star and I know that we've actually started

1695
02:42:15,840 --> 02:42:21,880
a utility company that's going to deal with our geothermal because all today, as I said,

1696
02:42:21,880 --> 02:42:28,700
three of the six buildings in Oakville. All three buildings in Oakville are being built with

1697
02:42:28,700 --> 02:42:29,100
geothermal.

1698
02:42:31,920 --> 02:42:37,460
Okay, so all we need to do is get the other developers on side to do the same thing.

1699
02:42:38,720 --> 02:42:46,160
I think there's I think some members of the group are there. I don't think that's the challenge.

1700
02:42:47,720 --> 02:42:52,480
Okay, well that's wonderful news. I know I've been hearing about the negotiations on our green

1701
02:42:52,480 --> 02:42:57,980
development standards. So I'm heartened to hear your enthusiasm. Thank you.

1702
02:42:58,140 --> 02:43:02,120
Yeah, Mr. Linner may have a different opinion, but I think we're going to get there.

1703
02:43:03,280 --> 02:43:04,380
Great. Thank you.

1704
02:43:05,500 --> 02:43:11,680
Thank you very much Councillor Fogel. So just to follow up a little bit from Councillor Fogel,

1705
02:43:13,460 --> 02:43:20,760
did I just heard you say that some Gary, that some of your consortium are looking at the

1706
02:43:20,760 --> 02:43:27,780
the building code standards or is that something that you would all be looking at if we went

1707
02:43:27,780 --> 02:43:32,740
with concept two or a variation of it?

1708
02:43:33,680 --> 02:43:39,500
Yeah, I can't correlate the two your worship because some of the land owner groups have no land

1709
02:43:39,500 --> 02:43:44,440
outside of the urban boundary. But what I can say based on the information that they've presented

1710
02:43:44,440 --> 02:43:50,380
it does, that they're going to be looking at alternative energy sources for the delivery

1711
02:43:50,380 --> 02:43:51,340
of their community.

1712
02:43:52,080 --> 02:43:56,760
I cannot say, as I said earlier, that I can't speak on behalf of the group, that all members

1713
02:43:56,760 --> 02:44:06,080
of the group are in the same space, but I do know that if the code changes, we have to comply.

1714
02:44:06,080 --> 02:44:17,680
So if by 2030 my predictions accurate and the code does change, all the development would be required to build to that standard.

1715
02:44:18,320 --> 02:44:26,140
It may not be capturing all of vision Georgetown, but certainly would capture perhaps some of it that occurs after that point in time.

1716
02:44:27,260 --> 02:44:34,660
Okay. Thank you very much for that clarification. I see no other questions. So thank you for appearing

1717
02:44:34,660 --> 02:44:40,540
before us. Our next delegation is Jay River Truestill from Smart Centers.

1718
02:44:45,780 --> 02:44:51,400
Afternoon, Mr. Mayor and members of Council. My name is VH Truestill. I'm the Director of Corporate

1719
02:44:51,400 --> 02:44:56,920
Affairs at Smart Centers for Real Estate Vesatrust. Smart Centers was founded with a vision of

1720
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:13,740
And it's begun a transformation into a diversified real estate trust. We have active applications for over 10,000 new residential units just within the Greater Golden Horseshoe. And we have formed joint ventures of best-in-class operators like smart, soft, self-storage.

1721
02:45:15,760 --> 02:45:29,220
A cell storage company out of California and Rivera Senior Living, a top tier retirement home operator. We have also formed partnerships with groups like the YMCA integrating social infrastructure into our new developments.

1722
02:45:30,220 --> 02:45:35,760
Through COVID, we've offered up a number of our vacant spaces free of charge to help authorities

1723
02:45:35,760 --> 02:45:41,780
across the country for COVID testing and vaccine clinics. And we now have over 10 active

1724
02:45:41,780 --> 02:45:48,220
vaccine clinics across Ontario and the country. We're master planning our sites across Canada

1725
02:45:48,220 --> 02:45:53,480
to become new communities with a mix of housing types and convenient access to shops and services.

1726
02:45:54,080 --> 02:45:58,980
We appreciate the hard work that staff has done, working with the region, the development

1727
02:45:58,980 --> 02:46:05,740
industry, and the community, it really gains consensus around the options and recommendations

1728
02:46:05,740 --> 02:46:06,480
that are presented.

1729
02:46:07,720 --> 02:46:12,760
They are highly responsive, attentive, and very helpful with all of our questions and concerns

1730
02:46:12,760 --> 02:46:14,900
like the other delegations I want to extend.

1731
02:46:15,380 --> 02:46:18,400
My thanks to staff and commend the work that they have done.

1732
02:46:19,760 --> 02:46:24,320
The recommendation before you today is a result of these and other discussions and

1733
02:46:24,320 --> 02:46:26,520
in our view is highly supportable.

1734
02:46:28,800 --> 02:46:34,360
Gary's expertise, I won't repeat the things that Gary said, but he brought up a lot of

1735
02:46:34,360 --> 02:46:40,840
great points about why and how we need to grow and we need to be accommodating to the citizens

1736
02:46:40,840 --> 02:46:43,540
of tomorrow, people that are coming to join the community.

1737
02:46:44,620 --> 02:46:49,180
On set two strikes have balanced between urban expansion and increased density, which

1738
02:46:49,180 --> 02:46:51,820
will allow for all types of homes for all types of people.

1739
02:46:52,540 --> 02:46:58,000
We just have a recommendation and look forward to working together to help grow home responsibly

1740
02:46:58,000 --> 02:47:00,040
and bring new housing choices in the community.

1741
02:47:00,980 --> 02:47:01,840
Thank you very much.

1742
02:47:03,160 --> 02:47:04,060
Thank you.

1743
02:47:04,380 --> 02:47:11,320
And could you tell members of council and probably people from the public watching this how

1744
02:47:11,320 --> 02:47:21,820
How many, how much land do you own outside of the urban boundary and what's perhaps were your plans if we did expand your urban boundary?

1745
02:47:23,400 --> 02:47:23,760
Absolutely.

1746
02:47:25,180 --> 02:47:35,180
So we own about 52 acres at 9th line and 10th side road just across the street from the current urban boundary.

1747
02:47:36,060 --> 02:47:42,180
We have had discussions with staff at the town, and in my last delegation at the region,

1748
02:47:42,560 --> 02:47:47,720
they very clear that we're an open book. I mean, a lot of what I said about master planning sites,

1749
02:47:47,820 --> 02:47:52,660
we haven't done to this site. We don't know what the opportunities are, what the community need is.

1750
02:47:53,380 --> 02:48:00,500
So we are very open to working with Halton Hills on appropriate uses and densities for this site

1751
02:48:01,260 --> 02:48:03,620
if it's considered as part of the expansion, absolutely.

1752
02:48:04,640 --> 02:48:08,040
Thank you very much for that answer.

1753
02:48:08,860 --> 02:48:14,450
Are there any questions from members of council having none?

1754
02:48:14,790 --> 02:48:17,970
Thank you very much for joining us this afternoon and for your patients.

1755
02:48:18,430 --> 02:48:20,310
We'll go on to the next delegation.

1756
02:48:20,830 --> 02:48:25,230
And that is Sherry Thompson, who's a resident of Halton Hills.

1757
02:48:55,270 --> 02:48:57,270
Hi there, sorry about that delay there.

1758
02:48:57,810 --> 02:48:58,670
Not to worry.

1759
02:48:58,670 --> 02:49:04,530
My name is Sherry Thompson and I lived in my morning for 15 years.

1760
02:49:06,650 --> 02:49:11,750
What I had written to say today is really flipped on its head after watching these last

1761
02:49:11,750 --> 02:49:12,390
few hours.

1762
02:49:13,690 --> 02:49:21,290
I must say certainly a lot of information is now available that was not available prior

1763
02:49:21,290 --> 02:49:27,590
to the last year, but the last 15 for me but the last year for many.

1764
02:49:27,590 --> 02:49:35,470
So I just did, from what I'm hearing, I think it's just going to be really, really important

1765
02:49:35,870 --> 02:49:45,630
for Council to set some solid guidelines, whether they can, is there a way to make a mathematical

1766
02:49:45,630 --> 02:49:54,110
equation regarding land use and the amount of clearing of it that is required to use it?

1767
02:49:54,110 --> 02:50:01,290
because I know that the question is always when you see these beautiful pieces of land in

1768
02:50:01,290 --> 02:50:05,650
Holton, is there certain areas of trees that are gorgeous and then flat-led between them?

1769
02:50:06,170 --> 02:50:15,390
Is there any mathematical equation that would equate to say one acre of housing use has

1770
02:50:15,390 --> 02:50:20,710
to be produced by say an equal acre of forest that's taken?

1771
02:50:20,710 --> 02:50:29,690
If not, then it forces people to use less desirable land because they want to produce houses

1772
02:50:29,690 --> 02:50:33,670
or they want to produce multi-use or whatever it is we're trying to do.

1773
02:50:34,170 --> 02:50:38,650
The reason I'm saying it that way now it's a little convoluted is because it just can't

1774
02:50:38,650 --> 02:50:44,970
just as I was listening to you now because part of the reason that I'm in the state that

1775
02:50:44,970 --> 02:50:50,690
I'm in and all this has gone downhill is because current

1776
02:50:51,210 --> 02:51:00,130
And I mean, right now, as I sit here, there's seven hectares of forest that was cleared for 33 homes.

1777
02:51:01,010 --> 02:51:05,310
Now, I guess 10 years ago, 15, 20 years ago, that wouldn't have been a saw.

1778
02:51:05,830 --> 02:51:08,190
Nobody would have batted it on.

1779
02:51:08,690 --> 02:51:11,630
We're in a different space now.

1780
02:51:12,570 --> 02:51:16,790
All I keep here is climate change, climate change, housing crisis, housing crisis, housing crisis.

1781
02:51:17,310 --> 02:51:24,350
The development that was cleared seven hectares for 33 homes was partially owned by the town

1782
02:51:24,350 --> 02:51:25,410
if I'm to understand.

1783
02:51:25,550 --> 02:51:26,970
I don't even want to figure it all out yet.

1784
02:51:27,670 --> 02:51:33,190
But that kind of lend to me would be the perfect opportunity to put a high density of

1785
02:51:33,190 --> 02:51:33,790
power in building.

1786
02:51:34,030 --> 02:51:35,730
It's now walkable to the go-train.

1787
02:51:37,170 --> 02:51:38,890
I don't understand the thought.

1788
02:51:38,890 --> 02:51:47,170
I think there needs to be rules around land, as far as the amount of opportunity for

1789
02:51:47,170 --> 02:51:53,090
the community as a whole produced by its use. So I don't know if somebody can answer, is there

1790
02:51:53,090 --> 02:51:57,170
any way of implementing that kind of a strategy?

1791
02:52:00,280 --> 02:52:03,040
I'll just let John Lynnhart or planner

1792
02:52:03,040 --> 02:52:09,180
walk through. Thank you. So thank you, Mr. Mayor, and to the delegation.

1793
02:52:09,180 --> 02:52:16,940
Perhaps the answer lies in thinking about the region's natural heritage system.

1794
02:52:17,800 --> 02:52:22,960
And the region introduced a natural heritage system through the last review.

1795
02:52:23,140 --> 02:52:26,100
They refer to it as an enhanced natural heritage system.

1796
02:52:26,640 --> 02:52:29,120
You'll now see it in the regional official plan.

1797
02:52:29,320 --> 02:52:32,840
And it's basically made up of a number of elements.

1798
02:52:33,040 --> 02:52:35,100
There's what they refer to as key features.

1799
02:52:35,100 --> 02:52:41,240
so that would pick up things like wetlands, woodlands, habitat of endangered threatened species,

1800
02:52:41,240 --> 02:52:48,080
things of that nature, then there's the buffers that go around those features, then there's the

1801
02:52:48,080 --> 02:52:53,840
notion of linkages trying to connect the features, and then the last component is enhancement areas,

1802
02:52:54,060 --> 02:52:57,740
areas where they're trying to strengthen or grow the natural heritage system, and that's what

1803
02:52:57,740 --> 02:53:04,620
it's now comprised of, and it does incorporate a significant amount of the region and the town's

1804
02:53:04,620 --> 02:53:10,980
land base, so I think that's probably the answer that I would offer because it's required

1805
02:53:10,980 --> 02:53:16,680
to be protected and then integrated into local official plans and secondary plans.

1806
02:53:17,020 --> 02:53:24,920
So, and then on top of that, obviously the town has also been working on a local tree

1807
02:53:24,920 --> 02:53:30,920
study and potentially exploring a local tree bylaw in the future to perhaps provide a little

1808
02:53:30,920 --> 02:53:36,140
more control over some of some of the other tree clearing that you may see as well that

1809
02:53:36,140 --> 02:53:42,660
that's an ongoing initiative or complimentary initiative if you will and I think that that's

1810
02:53:42,660 --> 02:53:48,040
how we're looking at it and obviously through each successive official plan review we're

1811
02:53:48,040 --> 02:53:52,640
obligated to update our policies to reflect whatever direction is coming from the province

1812
02:53:52,640 --> 02:53:59,020
or the region and generally speaking over time we've seen that the requirements for natural

1813
02:53:59,020 --> 02:54:05,460
heritage and permit policies that are required for natural heritage have been strengthened over time.

1814
02:54:05,760 --> 02:54:09,020
So hopefully that answers some of your question.

1815
02:54:09,980 --> 02:54:14,040
Actually, it doesn't. It's more the allocation end that I'm referring to.

1816
02:54:14,840 --> 02:54:22,380
So when the decisions become council's decisions to approve applications,

1817
02:54:23,200 --> 02:54:28,440
a part of the consideration because the Councillors and the residents are really the only ones that know

1818
02:54:28,440 --> 02:54:35,560
the topography, that no impact on law, that no, you know, when I say seven hectares of

1819
02:54:35,560 --> 02:54:42,040
forest for 33 houses, that should shock people, you know, that's a lot of forest when there's a lot

1820
02:54:42,040 --> 02:54:47,120
of fear land in a lot of other places. So if they were, as I said, they're building a apartment

1821
02:54:47,120 --> 02:54:53,540
building and you're getting, you know, 400 units out of seven acres, that's a different story.

1822
02:54:53,540 --> 02:55:05,320
So, I wonder if there is a way to discuss on a town level any requirements for the development

1823
02:55:06,040 --> 02:55:15,500
outcome for the development of loss, they've retrieved a lot, so speaking directly to

1824
02:55:15,500 --> 02:55:16,240
the final loss.

1825
02:55:16,240 --> 02:55:22,560
So again, it's about the allocation, not the designation.

1826
02:55:27,960 --> 02:55:32,640
So through the mayor to the delegation, I guess there's a couple of things there.

1827
02:55:33,120 --> 02:55:36,840
One is the actual land use designation on a particular property.

1828
02:55:37,920 --> 02:55:42,880
That's generally what guides the development that then ensues and whether it's a low-density

1829
02:55:42,880 --> 02:55:46,420
development, a medium-density development or a high-density development.

1830
02:55:46,420 --> 02:55:50,900
given the development that you're referring to that's located within the

1831
02:55:50,900 --> 02:55:57,300
hamlet of Glen Williams and the permissions in that particular area are

1832
02:55:57,700 --> 02:56:01,940
directed towards more lower density development given the location and given

1833
02:56:01,940 --> 02:56:07,420
the character of the community in terms of tree strategies and how we go

1834
02:56:07,420 --> 02:56:13,200
about them aside from protecting natural heritage lands again with any given

1835
02:56:13,200 --> 02:56:20,420
development application. There is a requirement to produce a tree-saving plan by a qualified

1836
02:56:20,420 --> 02:56:25,620
arborist and that's reviewed by town departments and whatever the recommendations that come

1837
02:56:25,620 --> 02:56:30,300
forward from those particular reports are then implemented through the development process.

1838
02:56:30,980 --> 02:56:36,880
In context of the specific site that you were mentioning, I know the town did actually

1839
02:56:36,880 --> 02:56:41,460
retain an independent consultant to look at a lot of the environmental lands that you

1840
02:56:41,460 --> 02:57:00,180
raised that did not benefit from any particular natural heritage protections at that time and then actually steps were taken to preserve as much as we possibly could and have those lands come into public ownership. And again, that was based on the recommendations of an independent ecologist.

1841
02:57:01,910 --> 02:57:05,850
But again, it doesn't answer the question.

1842
02:57:06,010 --> 02:57:10,590
What I'm asking is possibly consider a way

1843
02:57:10,590 --> 02:57:15,010
to bring into the equation.

1844
02:57:15,130 --> 02:57:21,770
If you have several subdivision or plans presented to you,

1845
02:57:22,490 --> 02:57:27,570
cannot one of the markers be what is the turnaround

1846
02:57:27,570 --> 02:57:33,450
of livable space or usable community space

1847
02:57:33,450 --> 02:57:38,550
for the land lost versus say the value of the houses

1848
02:57:38,550 --> 02:57:39,870
or the development charges.

1849
02:57:40,110 --> 02:57:42,310
I know there's money, money's always fine to everything.

1850
02:57:42,650 --> 02:57:45,230
I get it and I hate it also.

1851
02:57:45,830 --> 02:57:48,750
However, there has to be a balance somewhere

1852
02:57:48,750 --> 02:57:51,750
because a lot of times when there's little towns

1853
02:57:51,750 --> 02:57:55,170
that grow into now metropolis is which is coming our way.

1854
02:57:56,250 --> 02:58:00,870
The land owners cannot be the land developers.

1855
02:58:01,270 --> 02:58:02,570
It just doesn't work.

1856
02:58:02,570 --> 02:58:09,890
So, again, I would strongly recommend some kind of mathematically equation that also must

1857
02:58:09,890 --> 02:58:21,590
be met that the destruction of the land does provide the community results that we're

1858
02:58:21,590 --> 02:58:23,310
looking for, not to splash.

1859
02:58:24,390 --> 02:58:25,470
Thank you.

1860
02:58:26,230 --> 02:58:29,150
Thank you very much for your deputation.

1861
02:58:29,850 --> 02:58:37,630
our next delegation is Colin Schum from Glent Schneider and Associates.

1862
02:58:49,770 --> 02:58:53,590
Good afternoon, Mr. Mayor, just wanted to test an audio video test.

1863
02:58:54,270 --> 02:58:55,490
We can hear you.

1864
02:58:56,170 --> 02:58:56,550
Thank you.

1865
02:58:57,030 --> 02:58:57,410
Thank you.

1866
02:59:01,840 --> 02:59:04,280
Your worship and to members of council.

1867
02:59:04,780 --> 02:59:05,360
Good afternoon.

1868
02:59:05,680 --> 02:59:07,520
Thank you for allowing me to speak today.

1869
02:59:08,440 --> 02:59:11,900
My name is Colin Schum of Glent Schneider and Associates Inc.

1870
02:59:11,900 --> 02:59:16,520
I think I'm a land use planner who has been involved in planning an alternate region

1871
02:59:16,520 --> 02:59:18,080
for the last 25 years.

1872
02:59:19,020 --> 02:59:23,840
And after spending better part of my career as a start in the public sector.

1873
02:59:25,400 --> 02:59:31,420
I am speaking today on behalf of the South Georgetown Landowners Group.

1874
02:59:32,200 --> 02:59:38,880
They represent two concessions of land between Schofogger Road to the West, Nines Line to the

1875
02:59:38,880 --> 02:59:47,220
east, 10 side road to the north, and 5 side road to the south, of which approximately 600

1876
02:59:47,220 --> 02:59:54,380
hectares is table land outside the regional NHS. These lands immediately about the

1877
02:59:54,380 --> 02:59:56,160
Sunday Boundary of Georgetown.

1878
03:00:00,080 --> 03:00:06,580
And they were involved in the region's sustainable halton, Ropa 38 Urban Boundary Expansion process.

1879
03:00:07,840 --> 03:00:12,320
Well, they did not agree with the decision of the town at the time and the region at the time

1880
03:00:12,620 --> 03:00:18,440
to expand Georgetown Urban Boundary westerly to include the vision Georgetown lands.

1881
03:00:18,780 --> 03:00:24,960
They respected that decision, and these land donors have waited for this regional MCR process

1882
03:00:24,960 --> 03:00:25,460
to commence.

1883
03:00:25,460 --> 03:00:26,400
We

1884
03:00:28,640 --> 03:00:44,520
support the staff report as before you today and the landowner group would like town council to include their lands as part of the Georgetown urban area to accommodate the future population and employment role to the year 2021.

1885
03:00:47,430 --> 03:00:59,270
We have heard public opinion of many of the workshops open houses and public meetings that climate change and emergency greenhouse gas emissions and farmland preservation

1886
03:00:59,270 --> 03:01:05,110
are important priorities to consider and deciding where to grow and how to grow in the region.

1887
03:01:06,070 --> 03:01:09,770
The landowner group that I represent agrees.

1888
03:01:11,270 --> 03:01:15,430
However, we also believe that there is a lot of risk and repercussions

1889
03:01:15,870 --> 03:01:18,950
to making decisions based on these factors alone.

1890
03:01:19,970 --> 03:01:25,610
We believe that sound municipal physical management, resident property tax impacts,

1891
03:01:25,610 --> 03:01:31,570
providing for future committee services and facilities to accommodate future growth

1892
03:01:31,990 --> 03:01:37,350
and exploring the realities of having a state-of-the-art regional recreational center

1893
03:01:37,770 --> 03:01:43,970
with Olympic-sized hockey arenas and swimming pools that puts halton hills on the supporting map

1894
03:01:43,970 --> 03:01:50,650
locally, regionally and nationally. And this is similar to Milton's Velodrome or Richmond Hills

1895
03:01:50,650 --> 03:01:54,310
Bristol Green Rec Center would be good for halter region.

1896
03:01:57,810 --> 03:02:01,070
We do question how the existing communities of Georgetown and

1897
03:02:01,070 --> 03:02:06,270
acting can withstand putting all of the future growth in the existing urban area.

1898
03:02:07,390 --> 03:02:14,610
There's a I call it the threshold to how much existing parks, schools, community facilities,

1899
03:02:15,310 --> 03:02:17,430
roads can absorb future growth.

1900
03:02:17,430 --> 03:02:23,690
schools. If new park schools or community or recreational facilities are needed to accommodate

1901
03:02:23,690 --> 03:02:29,050
future growth, the newly urbanized land could be the solution to providing for that.

1902
03:02:30,770 --> 03:02:38,350
As such, considering additional urban land in Georgetown is not just about more houses. It's

1903
03:02:38,350 --> 03:02:44,190
about a prudent and balanced solution to planning for intensification in the existing urban area,

1904
03:02:44,190 --> 03:02:50,890
but also plan new greenfield growth with sustainable new town facilities for all of

1905
03:02:50,890 --> 03:02:52,790
Halton Hills residents to use and enjoy,

1906
03:02:54,800 --> 03:02:58,140
including the lands represented by this group

1907
03:02:58,140 --> 03:03:04,480
that I represent into the Georgetown Urban Area is not a green light development.

1908
03:03:05,300 --> 03:03:10,040
You still control when you want to grow and how you want to grow.

1909
03:03:10,040 --> 03:03:17,520
So, Town Council still has authority to make sure you set the tone and requirement for

1910
03:03:17,520 --> 03:03:20,020
the type of community you want to create in Oltenails.

1911
03:03:21,760 --> 03:03:27,600
With the town's recently adopted green development standards, and with some public utility companies

1912
03:03:27,600 --> 03:03:33,960
such as Ambridge looking to implement clean energy neighborhoods, I believe that these two

1913
03:03:33,960 --> 03:03:37,160
concessions of land inclusive of the natural environment

1914
03:03:37,160 --> 03:03:41,540
surroundings provide town council the opportunity to create a

1915
03:03:41,540 --> 03:03:45,920
smart and sustainable community that addresses climate change

1916
03:03:45,920 --> 03:03:50,540
greenhouse gas emissions through rethinking how community

1917
03:03:50,540 --> 03:03:54,520
ought to be planned. The landowner group welcomes

1918
03:03:54,520 --> 03:03:58,840
working with the town council the residents and town staff

1919
03:03:59,320 --> 03:04:02,920
as your partner to go beyond the traditional way of community planning

1920
03:04:02,920 --> 03:04:08,000
and deliver something truly unique and put halton health on the map on how to create

1921
03:04:08,000 --> 03:04:11,780
a green community for other municipalities to study and emulate.

1922
03:04:13,840 --> 03:04:20,960
We do know any decision of how future growth ought to be accommodated is not an easy decision

1923
03:04:20,960 --> 03:04:21,920
for town council.

1924
03:04:22,940 --> 03:04:24,120
We understand that.

1925
03:04:24,980 --> 03:04:30,580
Your decision today could have ripple effect on the halton health residents for the next ten

1926
03:04:30,580 --> 03:04:31,280
to thirty years.

1927
03:04:31,280 --> 03:04:38,500
We respectfully ask that Count Town Council give yourself the options and opportunities

1928
03:04:38,500 --> 03:04:44,820
to put all the important priorities into consideration in determining how growth can be accommodated

1929
03:04:44,820 --> 03:04:45,640
in Hilton Hills.

1930
03:04:46,960 --> 03:04:53,600
Environmentally sustainable, livable, and clean energy smart living community that respects

1931
03:04:53,600 --> 03:04:58,300
climate change and greenhouse gas emissions ought to be part of that decision.

1932
03:04:59,560 --> 03:05:04,320
I thank you for allowing me to speak before you, and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

1933
03:05:04,540 --> 03:05:04,820
Thank you.

1934
03:05:05,440 --> 03:05:11,940
Thank you very much for your presentation, and I have one question for you, Colin, a

1935
03:05:11,940 --> 03:05:20,220
couple of weeks ago, you delegated before council, and I had asked you how many acres you're

1936
03:05:20,220 --> 03:05:29,300
out the South Georgetown Landowners Group Adams and your answer was 2000 acres. So then I asked

1937
03:05:29,300 --> 03:05:37,800
you on how many acres did you want to develop and your answer was all 2000. So the staff report

1938
03:05:37,800 --> 03:05:46,780
today is actually looking about 815 acres and you're concerned in where the people you're representing

1939
03:05:46,780 --> 03:05:51,240
say you support that? What made you change your mind in a couple of weeks?

1940
03:05:53,760 --> 03:05:59,620
Mr. Mayor, I think it's really comes down to math. When I spoke about the land on a group

1941
03:05:59,620 --> 03:06:07,980
representing 2,000 acres, that is the total 2,000 acre curse, inclusive of natural environmental

1942
03:06:08,540 --> 03:06:16,520
features and systems. So what I did, subsequent to the workshop, was did some really gross

1943
03:06:16,520 --> 03:06:23,380
analysis of how much natural heritage system that would be identified as

1944
03:06:23,380 --> 03:06:28,380
already been identified in the regional plan in this 2000 acres and I came out

1945
03:06:28,380 --> 03:06:35,360
with the the math that the the developer table land that could be available in

1946
03:06:35,360 --> 03:06:45,620
that 2000 acres works out to be approximately I say give or take you know 600

1947
03:06:45,620 --> 03:06:54,280
100 hectares, which is basically, you know, I saved 1,500 acres, 1,500, 1,500 acres.

1948
03:06:54,440 --> 03:06:59,380
So when I did the math and looked at the staff departments in there, I think the staff

1949
03:06:59,380 --> 03:07:04,880
report, when they talk about their land quantum, it's exclusive of the regional natural heritage

1950
03:07:04,880 --> 03:07:07,080
system, which I've done the math to.

1951
03:07:07,080 --> 03:07:10,680
Thank you. So my math now is consistent with how

1952
03:07:11,480 --> 03:07:15,480
town staff did their math on future land needs.

1953
03:07:17,680 --> 03:07:20,560
Thank you very much for your clarification.

1954
03:07:21,580 --> 03:07:27,420
Are there any questions of Mr. Chung from members of Council?

1955
03:07:31,990 --> 03:07:35,270
No, I don't see any, so thank you again for coming before us.

1956
03:07:36,410 --> 03:07:37,730
Oh, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1957
03:07:42,600 --> 03:08:00,520
Delegation number eight, Daniel Poyet has withdrawn. So now we're going to go to delegation number nine, Jenny, the first day, and that's from the Green Party of Canada. Welcome.

1958
03:08:05,060 --> 03:08:08,000
Well, your mic is not have to unmute yourself.

1959
03:08:08,000 --> 03:08:13,520
Thank you. It's been a long afternoon sitting here. Thank you for having me, Chair and

1960
03:08:13,520 --> 03:08:19,100
Councillors. My name is Jenny Laforese, and I'm a resident of PGL region, as well as

1961
03:08:19,100 --> 03:08:23,980
the Duffin Caledon Federal Candidate for the Green Party. It's a pleasure to delegate

1962
03:08:24,540 --> 03:08:29,860
today, and I'd first like to commend Council for leading the way in opposition to the 413.

1963
03:08:31,040 --> 03:08:35,020
However, I'm speaking today about the consistent and tenacious hunger for developing prime

1964
03:08:35,020 --> 03:08:40,860
farmland. Every municipality is being pressured to comply with a 30-year population estimate

1965
03:08:40,860 --> 03:08:45,100
by the Ford government. The report from Hemsome Consulting states that the Greater

1966
03:08:45,100 --> 03:08:50,680
World and Horseshoe was primed for continued rapid growth. However, the auditor general has

1967
03:08:50,680 --> 03:08:54,660
a report coming out this fall looking at the numbers being projected by the growth plan.

1968
03:08:55,300 --> 03:08:59,920
I urge council to delay until that report is complete. If the numbers are inflated,

1969
03:09:00,220 --> 03:09:03,520
council will have even more reason to hold the line of Holton's growth boundaries.

1970
03:09:04,180 --> 03:09:09,460
The acreage that the public knows about, that will be lost to sprawl equals 2,300 acres

1971
03:09:09,460 --> 03:09:10,060
for Halton.

1972
03:09:10,600 --> 03:09:15,840
Milton recommended converting 5,600 acres of prime agricultural land to urban use.

1973
03:09:16,620 --> 03:09:20,360
So in total, if regional councilor accepts these two requests, it will be a permanent loss

1974
03:09:20,360 --> 03:09:22,820
of 7,900 acres of farmland in Halton.

1975
03:09:23,580 --> 03:09:30,720
But if you examine further a field, in Caledon alone, we have 2,635 acres as of June 8th,

1976
03:09:30,720 --> 03:09:33,360
with applications to convert prime agricultural land.

1977
03:09:33,960 --> 03:09:36,000
That does not include the acres slated for aggregate.

1978
03:09:36,700 --> 03:09:39,620
If we include an extra 1,100 acres for a strict mine

1979
03:09:39,620 --> 03:09:41,720
that is proposed in the cataract area

1980
03:09:41,720 --> 03:09:44,580
and now we're up to 10,535 acres.

1981
03:09:45,660 --> 03:09:47,080
Municipality by municipality

1982
03:09:47,080 --> 03:09:49,240
were doing exactly what the Ford government promised

1983
03:09:49,240 --> 03:09:52,480
they wouldn't do, which is we are carving up the green belt.

1984
03:09:53,400 --> 03:09:55,360
Farmers contribute more than 47 billion

1985
03:09:55,360 --> 03:09:56,480
to the provincial economy.

1986
03:09:56,720 --> 03:09:58,300
Why is our farmland expendable?

1987
03:09:58,300 --> 03:10:01,400
The requirement for food security has never been greater.

1988
03:10:02,040 --> 03:10:06,360
We know we cannot grow food on the Canadian shield, yet we're seeing an onslaught of development

1989
03:10:06,360 --> 03:10:09,900
on Prime Fireland with rezoning requests to prime industrial.

1990
03:10:10,420 --> 03:10:15,680
How can we possibly achieve our climate goals of reducing GHG emissions by 2030 if we're

1991
03:10:15,680 --> 03:10:17,280
expanding card-dependent communities?

1992
03:10:17,980 --> 03:10:21,980
Scientists are predicting that we will see more drought and more severe weather the time

1993
03:10:21,980 --> 03:10:23,060
to act is now.

1994
03:10:23,060 --> 03:10:28,140
Therefore, the preferred option for halton is 3-B. Do not expand the boundaries.

1995
03:10:28,920 --> 03:10:32,880
Please instead consider the example in Waterloo Region by Waterloo City Council.

1996
03:10:33,680 --> 03:10:37,220
Waterloo Region's countryside line is made up of six different growth boundaries.

1997
03:10:37,720 --> 03:10:41,160
These lines protect farms and the natural environment from suburban sprawl.

1998
03:10:41,720 --> 03:10:46,840
In 2010, the regional government agreed to protect rural areas with the countryside boundary line,

1999
03:10:47,080 --> 03:10:49,440
which defines where the city ends and farmland begins.

2000
03:10:50,120 --> 03:10:55,700
The countryside line protects wetlands, woodlands, ground water, recharge locations, and was developed

2001
03:10:55,700 --> 03:11:00,260
as a way to emulate the Green Belt and Waterloo region, which the region was left out of.

2002
03:11:00,440 --> 03:11:05,820
The region was left out of the Green Belt in 2005, so according to Sue Foxden, this is

2003
03:11:05,820 --> 03:11:10,700
actually a stronger way to preserve existing prime farmland.

2004
03:11:12,060 --> 03:11:17,180
I think the key elements of the Waterloo Regional Official Plan are fixed border between rural

2005
03:11:17,180 --> 03:11:22,000
and urban areas, directing growth to make better use of land and municipal services within

2006
03:11:22,000 --> 03:11:27,000
the built-up areas of the region, increasing transportation choice, including the

2007
03:11:29,070 --> 03:11:34,860
tree, protecting our drinking water and significant environmental areas, and increasing the

2008
03:11:34,860 --> 03:11:39,760
quality of life of citizens in the water of the region. Crime farmland is a non-renewable asset.

2009
03:11:40,260 --> 03:11:44,600
There is so much growing concern that we are losing too much prime farmland during COVID

2010
03:11:44,600 --> 03:11:49,500
to non-sensical, unpractical, unsustainable development.

2011
03:11:49,900 --> 03:11:52,200
The groups like the Ontario Federation of Agriculture

2012
03:11:52,200 --> 03:11:54,880
have launched an outreach campaign to educate the public

2013
03:11:54,880 --> 03:11:57,540
about the value of local food titled Homegrown.

2014
03:11:58,480 --> 03:12:00,220
The Green Party has a housing strategy

2015
03:12:00,220 --> 03:12:02,040
that I urge council to look at.

2016
03:12:02,380 --> 03:12:04,480
The recommendations call for stronger rent control

2017
03:12:04,480 --> 03:12:06,060
and a greater provincial investment

2018
03:12:06,060 --> 03:12:07,140
in affordable housing.

2019
03:12:07,700 --> 03:12:09,440
It includes measures to help more people move

2020
03:12:09,440 --> 03:12:11,940
into home ownership and also to make better use

2021
03:12:11,940 --> 03:12:14,020
of homes by simplifying co-housing rules.

2022
03:12:14,600 --> 03:12:19,540
If we increase housing supply, and at the same time protect farmland, and making it easier

2023
03:12:19,540 --> 03:12:25,020
to build housing within existing boundaries, then the plan proposed by MPP Mike Shiner

2024
03:12:25,020 --> 03:12:31,100
would address the missing middle, but making two plexes and triplexes legal as of right everywhere

2025
03:12:31,100 --> 03:12:31,800
in the province.

2026
03:12:32,420 --> 03:12:37,260
And to work collaboratively with municipalities on a province wide, yes, in my backyard initiative,

2027
03:12:37,260 --> 03:12:43,400
to change public attitudes against infill missing middle mid rise and community housing developments in neighborhoods.

2028
03:12:43,880 --> 03:12:58,080
There are six important reasons to hold the line and maintain hard urban boundaries, local food and agriculture, safe drinking water, compact, lively urban neighborhoods, affordable housing for all sustainable transportation and financial responsibility.

2029
03:12:58,740 --> 03:13:03,520
I hope that Holden Region will look at the possibilities to not only maintain the farmland

2030
03:13:03,520 --> 03:13:05,580
that we have but expand the green spaces.

2031
03:13:06,180 --> 03:13:13,380
We need to stop segmenting farmland or watershed and our ecosystems, not in 2051 but today.

2032
03:13:14,560 --> 03:13:15,320
Thank you for your time.

2033
03:13:16,720 --> 03:13:17,680
Thank you very much.

2034
03:13:18,100 --> 03:13:20,440
I thought I saw Councilor Somerville's hand up.

2035
03:13:20,920 --> 03:13:21,220
I did.

2036
03:13:21,760 --> 03:13:23,440
So you have a question, Councilor Somerville?

2037
03:13:23,440 --> 03:13:24,300
I

2038
03:13:26,960 --> 03:13:33,520
do, and I'm hoping that you get familiar with Section 92 of the Constitution because municipalities

2039
03:13:33,520 --> 03:13:37,860
fall under the purview of the province, so the province sets the rules that we have

2040
03:13:37,860 --> 03:13:38,340
to follow.

2041
03:13:38,580 --> 03:13:40,740
So as a federal candidate, I'm hoping that's something.

2042
03:13:41,420 --> 03:13:48,540
But one of the items you mentioned was about the green belt and destruction of the green belt,

2043
03:13:48,760 --> 03:13:51,160
which is not what we're doing in Hilton Hills.

2044
03:13:51,160 --> 03:13:56,820
So a lot of your comments were relating to what other municipalities are doing, but

2045
03:13:56,820 --> 03:14:02,100
I guess the only question I would really have for you, are you familiar that we cannot

2046
03:14:02,100 --> 03:14:03,660
fix harder than boundaries?

2047
03:14:03,960 --> 03:14:09,280
We are not permitted to, unless the land is put into green belt or in other types of permanent

2048
03:14:09,280 --> 03:14:09,820
protection.

2049
03:14:10,440 --> 03:14:14,860
We can't draw a line in a white belt area and say we can't develop past that.

2050
03:14:15,360 --> 03:14:19,480
We do not have those tools in our municipal tool belt.

2051
03:14:19,480 --> 03:14:24,610
I find that interesting because Waterloo Region has done that.

2052
03:14:25,290 --> 03:14:28,170
So can you explain why you don't have that tool in your tool?

2053
03:14:29,290 --> 03:14:31,230
I don't know what Waterloo Region did.

2054
03:14:32,210 --> 03:14:33,090
I don't know.

2055
03:14:33,310 --> 03:14:35,010
That's what I was talking about in my delegation.

2056
03:14:35,330 --> 03:14:40,130
It was six different urban boundaries that they addressed, so they were able to hold them

2057
03:14:40,130 --> 03:14:40,550
in line.

2058
03:14:41,210 --> 03:14:46,410
Which means that you're having an urban boundary that is decided by municipal council.

2059
03:14:46,410 --> 03:14:52,350
So municipal council actually can decide to basically draw a line.

2060
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:05,680
Then having different kinds of proposals where they're looking to expand and change the zoning.

2061
03:15:07,060 --> 03:15:11,940
Through you, Mr. Mayor, with all due respect, I think you're wrong. We can, we can hold

2062
03:15:11,940 --> 03:15:17,220
the urban boundary for today, but any future council through a municipal comprehensive

2063
03:15:17,220 --> 03:15:22,480
boundary review can change that. They are not permanent unless they're put into something

2064
03:15:22,480 --> 03:15:27,360
like green belts or end other ones. We can't set up an agricultural reserve that as well.

2065
03:15:27,360 --> 03:15:29,900
So I think that's something you might want to look into.

2066
03:15:30,160 --> 03:15:32,280
I don't know how Waterloo did it.

2067
03:15:32,420 --> 03:15:32,860
I don't know.

2068
03:15:32,940 --> 03:15:36,880
I heard you through the Waterloo region and the countryside line and the heart of

2069
03:15:36,880 --> 03:15:41,640
Emboundary because it hasn't done and it was a municipal council that did it.

2070
03:15:42,120 --> 03:15:47,880
And actually, according to Sue Foxon and you can check with her, it's the heart of Emboundary

2071
03:15:47,880 --> 03:15:50,280
that holds more weight than the greenhouse.

2072
03:15:51,080 --> 03:15:52,760
And that's what I'm delegating on today.

2073
03:15:53,440 --> 03:15:57,040
And I find that hard to believe, but I also find it incredibly distressing

2074
03:15:57,040 --> 03:16:01,980
to have a federal party candidate here on a municipal issue. I don't think that's proper

2075
03:16:01,980 --> 03:16:04,780
in my opinion, but good luck in the upcoming election.

2076
03:16:05,800 --> 03:16:08,620
Well, I'm also a resident of PL and a citizen of Ontario,

2077
03:16:08,980 --> 03:16:15,080
and the growth plan is a provincial matter that every citizen of Ontario is concerned about,

2078
03:16:15,280 --> 03:16:19,000
especially given climate change, especially given the global pandemic.

2079
03:16:19,460 --> 03:16:22,780
And it's completely appropriate because I identified myself as a federal candidate.

2080
03:16:22,780 --> 03:16:25,920
it. Thank you. Have a wonderful day.

2081
03:16:28,400 --> 03:16:31,540
Okay. Thank you very much. I do have Councillor

2082
03:16:31,540 --> 03:16:32,020
Fogel.

2083
03:16:35,480 --> 03:16:37,300
Thank you for your presentation, Jenny.

2084
03:16:37,740 --> 03:16:44,960
And I would like to confirm that I have looked at the Waterloo official plan where they drew

2085
03:16:44,960 --> 03:16:52,260
the countryside line and decided to not cross it. I think Councillor Somerville is saying that

2086
03:16:52,260 --> 03:17:00,240
a future council could change that, that it's not permanent, but they decided to do it

2087
03:17:00,240 --> 03:17:06,920
and they stuck with it, Burlington likewise did the same thing, so it is within our power

2088
03:17:06,920 --> 03:17:13,700
to say this is what the line is, it can be written into the official plan, even though

2089
03:17:13,700 --> 03:17:16,160
a future council could change it.

2090
03:17:16,920 --> 03:17:27,660
So, permanence is, it's not quite permanent, but it can be, as permanent as we want it to be, basically, if the community wants it to be permanent, they can do it.

2091
03:17:28,500 --> 03:17:34,620
So, I wondered if you were on the call when our consultant defined sprawl.

2092
03:17:35,640 --> 03:17:36,460
Did you hear it?

2093
03:17:37,860 --> 03:17:41,300
And he defined sprawl in a certain way.

2094
03:17:41,300 --> 03:17:44,640
I wondered if you agreed with that definition of sprawl,

2095
03:17:44,800 --> 03:17:46,080
where you recall it.

2096
03:17:47,200 --> 03:17:49,640
I think it's an oversimplified version of sprawl.

2097
03:17:49,780 --> 03:17:50,760
I grew up in sprawl.

2098
03:17:50,840 --> 03:17:51,720
I grew up in Mrs. Saga.

2099
03:17:52,000 --> 03:17:55,880
I watched sprawl develop in Medavale.

2100
03:17:56,380 --> 03:17:58,080
I experienced sprawl firsthand.

2101
03:17:59,040 --> 03:18:00,900
And sprawl is defined as housing

2102
03:18:00,900 --> 03:18:04,120
that has no significant infrastructure.

2103
03:18:04,820 --> 03:18:06,760
So as a student waiting for an hour

2104
03:18:06,760 --> 03:18:10,500
and a half to take a public transit to my school

2105
03:18:10,500 --> 03:18:17,760
And then do the reverse again because it was the closest school that offered the programs that I needed that is a definition of sprawl

2106
03:18:17,760 --> 03:18:30,840
It's where you're not able to do the things you want to do on a normal daily basis within a within a 15 minute, you know, 20 minute walk or bike ride or anything like that.

2107
03:18:30,840 --> 03:18:41,700
So, you know, sprawl is the car dependence communities and if we're expanding the boundary in Georgetown, we're creating more car dependent communities.

2108
03:18:43,420 --> 03:18:53,760
Yes. Well, I appreciate your definition. I tend to agree with you whether we do it through sprawl or we do it through intensification.

2109
03:18:53,760 --> 03:18:56,680
and it might not be sprawl, but sprawl,

2110
03:18:56,940 --> 03:18:59,740
as I understand it is, you've got to get in your car

2111
03:18:59,740 --> 03:19:00,480
to get anything.

2112
03:19:01,280 --> 03:19:01,780
So yeah.

2113
03:19:02,120 --> 03:19:04,560
And in Caledon, we see the absolute,

2114
03:19:04,900 --> 03:19:06,860
really the extreme of sprawl

2115
03:19:06,860 --> 03:19:09,160
because we don't have the servicing,

2116
03:19:09,620 --> 03:19:11,340
like basic water servicing,

2117
03:19:11,900 --> 03:19:14,160
before the diggers come.

2118
03:19:15,040 --> 03:19:16,820
So then you're building a community

2119
03:19:16,820 --> 03:19:18,440
before you have the infrastructure

2120
03:19:18,440 --> 03:19:19,800
to support that community.

2121
03:19:20,260 --> 03:19:21,600
So doing that on a green field

2122
03:19:21,600 --> 03:19:25,540
This is not recommended if we believe in climate change.

2123
03:19:27,300 --> 03:19:28,000
Thank you for that.

2124
03:19:28,400 --> 03:19:29,160
Thanks for being here.

2125
03:19:29,760 --> 03:19:30,160
Thank you.

2126
03:19:30,560 --> 03:19:31,240
Appreciate it.

2127
03:19:31,900 --> 03:19:38,340
I don't see any other questions, but just to go to Councillor Fogel's point, you know,

2128
03:19:38,600 --> 03:19:47,340
municipality we can hold a line but just remember the old expression that's municipalities are children of the province.

2129
03:19:47,340 --> 03:19:56,900
and the minister can overrule us and overturn anywhere to the minister of housing or the

2130
03:19:56,900 --> 03:20:02,000
premier can overturn this. And as you know, as you probably know, we've had a gun to

2131
03:20:02,000 --> 03:20:10,280
her head, Halton region, has asked the minister to hold off from any of this, these discussions

2132
03:20:10,280 --> 03:20:15,980
until the pandemic's been over and, you know, have, so we did try,

2133
03:20:16,060 --> 03:20:23,240
Halton Hills has done a resolution as well to, to delay any of these discussions

2134
03:20:23,240 --> 03:20:29,100
until the pandemic's over to have more one-on-one in person and we did receive a letter

2135
03:20:29,100 --> 03:20:35,780
from the minister basically saying you shall have your completion done.

2136
03:20:36,680 --> 03:20:38,580
And so I just want to make that point.

2137
03:20:38,580 --> 03:20:45,320
But I'd like to say that and I was aware of that. I have been following Houghton and I very much

2138
03:20:45,320 --> 03:20:51,060
commend you for your emotions that you put forward. I would just urge you to remember that the

2139
03:20:51,060 --> 03:20:56,560
auditor general is looking at the growth plan. She is an analyzing the growth plan. She's also

2140
03:20:56,560 --> 03:21:02,440
analyzing environmental assessments which are part of this entire puzzle as well and having identified

2141
03:21:02,440 --> 03:21:09,660
the environmental assessments are 81% non-compliant with recommendations as of 2016. I think he would be wise

2142
03:21:09,660 --> 03:21:13,740
to try and hold off on expanding the boundary.

2143
03:21:16,060 --> 03:21:18,980
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for showing your

2144
03:21:18,980 --> 03:21:30,510
interest. Appreciate it. Our next delegation has been Lisa Colner will be now pinch-hating for

2145
03:21:30,510 --> 03:21:33,970
Stephanie Bush from the Halton Environmental Network.

2146
03:21:34,690 --> 03:21:38,650
So welcome Lisa and good luck at Penn Shedding.

2147
03:21:40,230 --> 03:21:43,670
Good afternoon, Mayor Bennett, counselors and staff.

2148
03:21:44,450 --> 03:21:46,470
My name is Lisa Kohler. I'm the executive director

2149
03:21:46,470 --> 03:21:48,370
at the Halton Environmental Network.

2150
03:21:49,330 --> 03:21:55,290
I'm delegating on report PD 2021-0045.

2151
03:21:55,930 --> 03:21:58,830
I want to thank you for allowing me this opportunity

2152
03:21:58,830 --> 03:22:05,850
and for all the work you do as mayor, counselors, and town staff on mitigating climate change in our community.

2153
03:22:06,710 --> 03:22:13,510
Hand is involved in a few of your working groups and we're impressed with your commitment and drive for climate action.

2154
03:22:14,830 --> 03:22:19,890
We also want to express our gratitude to the staff for their hard work on this report.

2155
03:22:21,230 --> 03:22:26,210
Land use planning provides an incredible opportunity for climate action at a time

2156
03:22:26,210 --> 03:22:31,770
and so much more is understood about greenhouse gas emissions. This enhanced knowledge and

2157
03:22:31,770 --> 03:22:38,690
understanding can be applied here at the right time in the right moment to make real impact for our

2158
03:22:38,690 --> 03:22:45,890
future. Land use planning is an important pathway to build climate resiliency. At Hen,

2159
03:22:45,890 --> 03:22:49,030
then we are concerned about recommendations being made at this time.

2160
03:22:49,970 --> 03:22:52,670
The regional review process has yet to be concluded.

2161
03:22:53,430 --> 03:22:59,230
The region is still taking into consideration input from community groups, public delegations,

2162
03:22:59,730 --> 03:23:03,510
and advisory committees, all of which are ongoing.

2163
03:23:04,530 --> 03:23:11,670
This process may still result in modifications to the concepts provided as a report does indicate.

2164
03:23:12,430 --> 03:23:17,970
There are also concerns at the information on which the town of Hulton Hills is making

2165
03:23:17,970 --> 03:23:19,530
this decision is incomplete.

2166
03:23:20,490 --> 03:23:26,230
The methodology undertaken by the region to assess the various concept is still in progress.

2167
03:23:26,970 --> 03:23:29,330
And this process takes time.

2168
03:23:30,450 --> 03:23:36,170
The greenhouse gas emissions or GHGE assumptions made within the regional review takes into

2169
03:23:36,170 --> 03:23:39,210
consideration only one or two inventory criteria.

2170
03:23:39,210 --> 03:23:43,310
and is not currently a holistic inventory that can be quantified.

2171
03:23:43,810 --> 03:23:49,370
This provides insufficient data to determine the actual GHGE of the proposed plans.

2172
03:23:50,590 --> 03:23:57,230
When modeling inventories for GHGE, the global protocol for cities is highly recommended

2173
03:23:57,230 --> 03:24:04,630
as the base standard for inventories and creates reporting standards for communities across the planet.

2174
03:24:05,590 --> 03:24:10,550
The current inventory does not incorporate the standard protocol, but we hope that this

2175
03:24:10,550 --> 03:24:11,730
will be reported in the future.

2176
03:24:13,230 --> 03:24:18,590
Even with only two criteria being calculated, there still is difference between options.

2177
03:24:19,450 --> 03:24:25,490
For example, between option 2 and 3B, there is a significant GHG-E difference.

2178
03:24:25,490 --> 03:24:34,010
The 3.3% GHG emissions difference is estimated at 38,000 metric tons.

2179
03:24:35,190 --> 03:24:44,450
That is the equivalency to energy consumed for one year of over 4,576 homes

2180
03:24:44,450 --> 03:24:50,290
or 8,264 passenger vehicles driven for one year.

2181
03:24:51,650 --> 03:24:56,010
We know that there are great opportunities within our community to mitigate and adapt to

2182
03:24:56,010 --> 03:24:56,810
our changing climate.

2183
03:24:57,870 --> 03:25:03,610
We need a regional approach to address climate change that is cohesive, succinct, and holistic.

2184
03:25:04,670 --> 03:25:09,290
We need a regional approach that supports all municipalities, aligning the work, looking

2185
03:25:09,290 --> 03:25:16,110
for best practices, and replicating advantageous programs to improve efficiency and effectiveness

2186
03:25:16,110 --> 03:25:19,530
and to amplify and accelerate positive outcomes.

2187
03:25:20,350 --> 03:25:25,070
We need a balanced approach that does not lead to future climate challenges,

2188
03:25:25,510 --> 03:25:29,990
economic challenges, or issues with health, safety, and well-being of our community.

2189
03:25:30,470 --> 03:25:36,750
And that still conforms to the provincial to the provinces of places to grow, growth plan.

2190
03:25:38,050 --> 03:25:42,890
We hope that you will defer your decision until we have more complete information available.

2191
03:25:43,670 --> 03:25:49,310
We are happy to connect with the town any point to discuss a path forward and to continue

2192
03:25:49,310 --> 03:25:55,010
to work with you on supporting a plan that will drive true economic prosperity, community

2193
03:25:55,010 --> 03:25:59,870
resiliency, and transformation for climate action for our community.

2194
03:26:00,390 --> 03:26:00,950
Thank you.

2195
03:26:02,980 --> 03:26:04,040
Thank you very much.

2196
03:26:04,120 --> 03:26:06,080
There is a question from Councillor Lawler.

2197
03:26:08,220 --> 03:26:13,120
Thanks, Mr. Mayor, and thanks very much, Lisa, for coming and delegating to us.

2198
03:26:13,120 --> 03:26:20,280
And in particular, there was a bit of a bombshell you just dropped about the difference in

2199
03:26:20,280 --> 03:26:33,880
GHG emissions between option 2 and option 3B, and I must say I had no idea of the huge

2200
03:26:34,520 --> 03:26:36,260
difference in that.

2201
03:26:36,260 --> 03:26:41,660
I think one of the earlier consultants, you know, said, oh, well, you know, it's six and

2202
03:26:41,660 --> 03:26:47,920
a little 6.0, you know, all around six and the impression certainly was left with me

2203
03:26:48,960 --> 03:27:02,420
that the difference in emissions between those two concepts was relatively minor. So I do thank you

2204
03:27:04,720 --> 03:27:11,440
I'm wondering if you can help us because it's my understanding that the region wants input

2205
03:27:11,440 --> 03:27:25,320
by July the 15th from various groups about these official plans and do you have other

2206
03:27:25,320 --> 03:27:31,560
information that would allow us to kind of adjust from that?

2207
03:27:34,240 --> 03:27:35,480
Through you, your

2208
03:27:35,480 --> 03:27:39,060
workshop to Councillor Lawler. Thank you, Councillor Lawler, for your question. I

2209
03:27:39,060 --> 03:27:44,120
appreciate it. And thanks for the opportunity, again, to delegate today and share

2210
03:27:44,120 --> 03:27:48,840
this information with you. No, I can't provide any more insights into into a

2211
03:27:48,840 --> 03:27:53,440
regional response. I guess we're just highlighting that, you know, again, there

2212
03:27:53,440 --> 03:27:58,940
There could be additional shifts when it comes to the concepts, and at this time to

2213
03:27:58,940 --> 03:28:04,060
move forward, looking at a holistic plan is really what we're hopeful for.

2214
03:28:04,780 --> 03:28:09,660
And again, evaluating the GHGE accordingly is also imperative at this point.

2215
03:28:11,800 --> 03:28:16,220
Thus far, the Town of Hilton Hills is leading much climate action in our community, and we'd

2216
03:28:16,220 --> 03:28:19,260
like them to stay, we'd like you to stay the course to be, to be honest.

2217
03:28:19,260 --> 03:28:26,460
So we're hopeful that with whatever decision you make, that it is a decision that's really

2218
03:28:26,460 --> 03:28:33,220
looking at greenhouse gas emissions and land use planning as a substantial way to impact

2219
03:28:33,220 --> 03:28:36,440
the climate crisis that we're experiencing.

2220
03:28:37,420 --> 03:28:43,700
Okay, so as a follow-up, then I'm assuming that I'd like you to confirm, if you wouldn't mind,

2221
03:28:43,700 --> 03:28:53,240
and that from his perspective that 3B would be the most desirable approach from the

2222
03:28:53,240 --> 03:28:58,000
environmental perspective and emissions and so forth.

2223
03:28:58,480 --> 03:28:59,260
Is that correct?

2224
03:29:00,140 --> 03:29:04,240
Through your worship to Councillor Lawler, that would be correct.

2225
03:29:04,860 --> 03:29:10,080
We would hope that you would consider concept 3B as a more sustainable choice.

2226
03:29:10,080 --> 03:29:16,120
That aligns best with your climate emergency declaration, climate resiliency, and adaptation.

2227
03:29:16,860 --> 03:29:23,360
So it would be our hope that at this point, with the current concepts on the table, that

2228
03:29:23,360 --> 03:29:26,180
3B would be the option that you would move forward with.

2229
03:29:26,800 --> 03:29:27,040
Okay.

2230
03:29:27,380 --> 03:29:28,100
Thanks very much.

2231
03:29:28,300 --> 03:29:28,960
Thanks for coming.

2232
03:29:29,520 --> 03:29:29,860
Thank you.

2233
03:29:30,740 --> 03:29:31,580
Thank you.

2234
03:29:31,800 --> 03:29:32,860
I have Councilor Somerville.

2235
03:29:34,140 --> 03:29:36,160
Thank you for being here, Lisa, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2236
03:29:36,160 --> 03:29:41,460
So on the greenhouse task for the modeling that was done on that, we have not had a presentation

2237
03:29:41,460 --> 03:29:44,040
at council, regional council yet on that as well.

2238
03:29:44,420 --> 03:29:51,380
So that would be why we did see it as part of the PIC, feels like six months ago now,

2239
03:29:51,500 --> 03:29:52,680
but I know it was only about a week.

2240
03:29:53,300 --> 03:29:54,300
But we did see it then.

2241
03:29:54,300 --> 03:29:55,980
And so we haven't had the chance to ask.

2242
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:28,760
I just wanted to just to highlight you had said about deferring and it's a difficult option because the region is trying to do the concepts that come back in October. So whatever we approve today is going to come to regional council back again in October and then for a final one in February. So we still have that that amount of time. So it's just so that you're aware from that and Mr. Mayor, I don't know if our staff has anything to comment on that as well.

2243
03:30:28,760 --> 03:30:28,820
Well,

2244
03:30:31,430 --> 03:30:33,150
John, John will make a comment.

2245
03:30:35,380 --> 03:30:38,260
Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor, and through you to the councillor.

2246
03:30:39,120 --> 03:30:39,600
That's right.

2247
03:30:40,100 --> 03:30:46,260
The deadline to get comments back to the region was mid-July on the concepts.

2248
03:30:46,580 --> 03:30:52,200
They have been out for a while now, as you know, and the other three municipalities have

2249
03:30:52,200 --> 03:30:57,040
all filed reports and council resolutions on the concepts expressing a preference.

2250
03:30:57,040 --> 03:31:06,920
So that's the purpose of today's report is to give some indication to the region what this council would like to see moving forward with the development of a preferred growth concept.

2251
03:31:07,800 --> 03:31:12,160
And in terms of the balance of the schedule and Mr. Loes did mention it in his presentation.

2252
03:31:12,760 --> 03:31:26,580
The region is really hoping to adopt a regional official plan amendment early in 2022 dealing with what I'll call the growth management components only of the regional plan review.

2253
03:31:26,580 --> 03:31:31,880
And again, that's tied to the deadline that the region has from the province.

2254
03:31:32,660 --> 03:31:37,060
With respect to places to grow, that's July 1st, 2022 deadline.

2255
03:31:37,720 --> 03:31:43,520
And I know that yourself, Councillor Fogel and the mayor will be seeing a report tomorrow

2256
03:31:43,960 --> 03:31:49,400
that provides further information on a number of these particular items, including the implications

2257
03:31:49,400 --> 03:31:50,440
of the minister's letter.

2258
03:31:52,880 --> 03:31:54,020
Thank you for that, John.

2259
03:31:54,220 --> 03:31:56,140
No further comments, Mr. Mayor.

2260
03:32:01,530 --> 03:32:06,910
I just want to thank you, Lisa, for bringing up the differences in the greenhouse gas emissions

2261
03:32:06,910 --> 03:32:14,510
because although I know them, I think we haven't presented it to local councillors and so

2262
03:32:14,510 --> 03:32:21,390
it's not part of their decision making, frankly, which is a weakness in not sharing all the information

2263
03:32:21,390 --> 03:32:26,990
and thoroughly, but anyway, so ahead you heard anything about changes to the building

2264
03:32:26,990 --> 03:32:32,670
code that would bring us net zero houses by 2030?

2265
03:32:34,920 --> 03:32:38,700
Through you, Mayor, to the Councilor Fogel, thank you, Councilor Fogel, for the question.

2266
03:32:38,860 --> 03:32:45,760
Actually, I was fascinated by the quest by Gary's delegation and in that information, no,

2267
03:32:45,940 --> 03:32:52,180
I have yet to be informed of any such changes to the building code that Gary did highlight

2268
03:32:52,180 --> 03:32:58,060
in his delegation. I have been constructing an email between the last hour actually to

2269
03:32:58,060 --> 03:33:03,500
some folks to validate that information and to see what I can find out. I will share

2270
03:33:03,500 --> 03:33:10,320
all outcomes with you when I do get information back from the federal government around the

2271
03:33:10,320 --> 03:33:10,920
building codes.

2272
03:33:12,360 --> 03:33:18,380
Well, it would be very exciting if we could get something on that. It's exactly the kind

2273
03:33:18,380 --> 03:33:23,600
a thing that we've needed and you know you sort of dismayed to think we've got the solutions

2274
03:33:23,600 --> 03:33:28,480
at hand and then we have governments that don't implement them. So if that's going to

2275
03:33:28,480 --> 03:33:34,480
come and supported by the industry, that's a game changer really. So thanks for your presentation.

2276
03:33:35,400 --> 03:33:42,760
Thank you. Thank you Lisa. Don't see any other questions so thank you for joining us

2277
03:33:42,760 --> 03:33:48,860
of this afternoon. And we'll go to our next delegation. And our next delegation is Kim

2278
03:33:48,860 --> 03:33:51,360
Bradshaw, Sustainable Milton.

2279
03:33:55,270 --> 03:33:58,090
Good afternoon mayor. Council, thank you very much for the

2280
03:33:58,090 --> 03:34:03,910
opportunity to speak to you today. I'm actually speaking as a halton resident, not on behalf

2281
03:34:03,910 --> 03:34:09,210
of Sustainable Milton today. And full disclosure, I am a very strong proponent of treating

2282
03:34:09,210 --> 03:34:14,390
climate change as the emergency it is. And I enthusiastically endorse hand's delegation.

2283
03:34:15,110 --> 03:34:16,610
I have heard that some municipal

2284
03:34:16,610 --> 03:34:18,930
Councillors are tired of hearing about climate change.

2285
03:34:19,550 --> 03:34:23,150
As they believe they have no choice but to expand the urban boundary to meet market

2286
03:34:23,150 --> 03:34:26,290
demand for both residential and employment expansion.

2287
03:34:27,170 --> 03:34:31,430
This is because climate change is not being recognized as the emergency it is.

2288
03:34:31,870 --> 03:34:37,130
If it were, climate change would be the basis of our land use planning, not market demand.

2289
03:34:38,110 --> 03:34:42,750
Even in today's presentation, I'm hearing terms like difficult to achieve and ambitious

2290
03:34:42,750 --> 03:34:46,370
in reference to even just 50 percent decennification.

2291
03:34:46,750 --> 03:34:49,570
These terms do not reflect emergency behavior.

2292
03:34:50,030 --> 03:34:51,690
They indicate business as usual.

2293
03:34:52,330 --> 03:34:55,670
If we truly recognized and acted on the declared emergency,

2294
03:34:56,050 --> 03:34:59,850
we would find ways to act as quickly as possible,

2295
03:35:00,090 --> 03:35:01,670
just like we did in response to COVID.

2296
03:35:02,690 --> 03:35:04,930
I'm not sure how anyone can ignore the fact

2297
03:35:04,930 --> 03:35:07,190
that our very comfortable lifestyles here in Hulton

2298
03:35:07,190 --> 03:35:10,450
directly impact the biosphere and everyone in it.

2299
03:35:10,450 --> 03:35:16,670
Not only the many vulnerable populations currently suffering the most from climate change, but

2300
03:35:16,670 --> 03:35:18,230
also our own children and grandchildren.

2301
03:35:18,930 --> 03:35:21,270
We need to think globally and act locally.

2302
03:35:21,990 --> 03:35:23,610
The planet is one biosphere.

2303
03:35:24,250 --> 03:35:26,270
Nothing within this system stands alone.

2304
03:35:26,870 --> 03:35:31,510
We must minimize the impact of our land use on the future of the biosphere.

2305
03:35:32,550 --> 03:35:37,370
Many of the behaviors that generate significant emissions are governed by municipal governments,

2306
03:35:37,370 --> 03:35:44,430
land use planning and policies. These include personal vehicle dependency, fossil fuel-based transportation

2307
03:35:44,430 --> 03:35:49,870
and heating, green field development of prime agricultural land, and re-engineering of natural

2308
03:35:49,870 --> 03:35:56,350
heritage systems. We all need to make significant changes in our expectations in lifestyle. Many

2309
03:35:56,350 --> 03:36:02,050
would call them sacrifices to ensure we modify our behaviors that threaten the survival of future

2310
03:36:02,050 --> 03:36:07,850
generations. In conjunction with the climate emergency is the ever increasing threat to our food

2311
03:36:07,850 --> 03:36:13,090
security by intense weather events and the rapidly shrinking stock of prime farmland.

2312
03:36:13,910 --> 03:36:16,910
Thank you Jenny LeFoursteer for your excellent delegation.

2313
03:36:17,990 --> 03:36:24,190
How we can select anything but option 3B and make it work for our growing population I don't know.

2314
03:36:25,010 --> 03:36:28,410
I believe our planners, developers, and businesses are up for the challenge.

2315
03:36:28,410 --> 03:36:32,050
change. Necessity is the mother of invention or rather innovation.

2316
03:36:33,410 --> 03:36:37,670
There's also been much discussion about provincial policy and related assumptions. We've

2317
03:36:37,670 --> 03:36:42,690
clearly seen that the province can change the rules midstream. Social change and advancement

2318
03:36:42,690 --> 03:36:47,410
do not typically come from provincial policy statements. They come from communities pushing

2319
03:36:47,410 --> 03:36:50,190
their governments to make desired and necessary adjustments.

2320
03:36:53,000 --> 03:36:54,840
The projections don't include

2321
03:36:54,840 --> 03:37:01,280
how grows will impact the environment. We need to build to preserve the environment our farmland

2322
03:37:01,280 --> 03:37:10,460
and our NHS as we as residents will have to adjust. There was a claim that increased employment

2323
03:37:10,460 --> 03:37:16,560
lands will reduce GHGs by providing local jobs. I'd like to see some of the actual math that

2324
03:37:16,560 --> 03:37:21,460
supports this because I suspect that the reduction in commuting emissions will be entirely wiped out

2325
03:37:21,460 --> 03:37:23,760
by the additional emissions of land-based development.

2326
03:37:25,240 --> 03:37:30,460
I was very pleased to see the fiscal impact assessment, and I think it accurately reflects

2327
03:37:30,460 --> 03:37:37,080
the reality of land-based development and also supported by the City of Kingston's report

2328
03:37:37,080 --> 03:37:38,080
recently released.

2329
03:37:39,380 --> 03:37:47,160
So in short, I'm asking you to endorse option 3B, save our farmland, our food security,

2330
03:37:47,160 --> 03:37:51,900
and preserve the biosphere for future generations.

2331
03:37:52,540 --> 03:37:52,940
Thank you.

2332
03:37:54,800 --> 03:37:56,240
Thank you very much.

2333
03:37:56,680 --> 03:37:58,820
I don't see any questions.

2334
03:37:59,940 --> 03:38:02,280
So thank you again for being here this afternoon.

2335
03:38:03,040 --> 03:38:08,200
Our next delegation is Monica Kamer.

2336
03:38:08,720 --> 03:38:11,060
I hope they said your last name correctly.

2337
03:38:26,360 --> 03:38:27,960
Good afternoon, Mayor Rick Bonnet.

2338
03:38:28,400 --> 03:38:29,920
Good afternoon, council members.

2339
03:38:29,920 --> 03:38:41,520
My name is Monica Kamera, I'm a property manager, a farmer and a mom concerned about the future of the next generations and our planet Earth.

2340
03:38:42,860 --> 03:38:58,020
I spoke to you on April 12th and at the Hawthorne Region Council on April 21st. I focused in both speeches on the climate emergency saying everything I wanted to say and therefore did not want to speak today.

2341
03:38:59,140 --> 03:39:05,460
But then I changed my mind last Friday, when I was in a terrible rain and tail storm

2342
03:39:05,460 --> 03:39:11,360
trying to avoid an accident in the middle of a flooded six-lane road in Mississauga.

2343
03:39:12,100 --> 03:39:13,540
I was scared.

2344
03:39:15,520 --> 03:39:23,240
Those 10 km, I drove in very heavy rainfall with blurred vision and aqua planning, whereby

2345
03:39:23,240 --> 03:39:33,800
by far the worst ever driven in 46 years. I asked myself, is this what we leave future generations

2346
03:39:33,800 --> 03:39:42,160
behind? Will this extreme weather be the new normal for them? Why don't we do a lot more

2347
03:39:42,160 --> 03:39:49,680
and do it faster to mitigate climate change? As the change of the climate is accelerating,

2348
03:39:49,680 --> 03:39:58,280
shouldn't we accelerate our mitigation efforts by acting on a larger scale to achieve a bigger impact?

2349
03:40:00,670 --> 03:40:09,970
Those dangerous 10 kilometers and my questions motivated me to write a speech about choices and about my version 51.

2350
03:40:13,340 --> 03:40:18,240
We put single family homes and other buildings on farmland in the past.

2351
03:40:19,440 --> 03:40:24,380
Today and for the future, this is not the right choice anymore.

2352
03:40:25,500 --> 03:40:32,080
Those homes and buildings can all be built, but up north where there is lots, a lot of

2353
03:40:32,080 --> 03:40:35,300
space and rocky land not suitable for farming.

2354
03:40:36,140 --> 03:40:43,500
Down here we need to make sure that we have enough local food and enough water for all residents.

2355
03:40:44,740 --> 03:40:48,660
No farmland, no farmers, no food.

2356
03:40:50,000 --> 03:40:55,240
I have chosen to support a modification of gross concept 3B.

2357
03:40:57,370 --> 03:40:58,450
Why 3B?

2358
03:40:59,430 --> 03:41:03,770
Because it is the only concept that does not destroy farmland.

2359
03:41:04,250 --> 03:41:07,250
They have lost way too much farmland in the past.

2360
03:41:08,090 --> 03:41:12,330
The time has come to choose to protect what we still have.

2361
03:41:13,430 --> 03:41:21,210
why a modification? Because we can turn the huge challenge to accommodate all future

2362
03:41:21,210 --> 03:41:29,170
growth within some urban boundaries into an amazing opportunity. Let me explain my vision 51.

2363
03:41:30,990 --> 03:41:38,870
Toronto, Hamilton, Horton, Peel, and the other Golden Horseshoe regions team up. They know

2364
03:41:38,870 --> 03:41:45,010
to the re-sowning of Formland and build the smart city of the future up north.

2365
03:41:46,390 --> 03:41:52,730
A smart city with white bike lanes that are separated from the car lanes by a solid fence

2366
03:41:52,730 --> 03:41:54,570
so that bikers are safe.

2367
03:41:55,690 --> 03:41:59,830
Nice walkways that are separated from the bike lanes by a row of bushes.

2368
03:42:00,970 --> 03:42:07,930
One lane for EVs, one lane for EV car sharing, one lane for hydrogen powered buses.

2369
03:42:07,930 --> 03:42:10,990
15-minute complete communities.

2370
03:42:11,950 --> 03:42:14,250
All buildings have solar panels on the roof.

2371
03:42:14,830 --> 03:42:19,450
All buildings are high-energy efficient, to your thermal heating and cooling.

2372
03:42:20,590 --> 03:42:25,310
Ray water systems for toilets and washing machines and so on and so on.

2373
03:42:25,790 --> 03:42:27,410
That's my vision 51.

2374
03:42:29,320 --> 03:42:35,010
Great architect like Marina for Milton will happily and very professionally design this

2375
03:42:35,010 --> 03:42:35,810
smart city.

2376
03:42:35,810 --> 03:42:39,030
and I would love to live and work there.

2377
03:42:40,820 --> 03:42:46,070
You have the choice to vote for the difficult right or for the easy wrong.

2378
03:42:47,170 --> 03:42:50,550
Past choices are only mistakes if you repeat them.

2379
03:42:51,410 --> 03:42:55,890
They are learning opportunities to change and make better choices in the future.

2380
03:42:57,130 --> 03:43:00,470
Please, please choose wisely.

2381
03:43:01,530 --> 03:43:07,190
The difficult but smart right will lead us to a great future that is well worth living

2382
03:43:08,070 --> 03:43:10,370
and good as well for our planet Earth.

2383
03:43:11,810 --> 03:43:18,330
Future generations will thank you and remember you as the smart and caring council members

2384
03:43:18,990 --> 03:43:21,130
who changed everything to the better.

2385
03:43:22,470 --> 03:43:25,490
I end my speech with a quote by Albert Einstein.

2386
03:43:26,530 --> 03:43:34,670
We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them.

2387
03:43:35,490 --> 03:43:38,930
Thank you very much for your attention and consideration.

2388
03:43:40,850 --> 03:43:43,970
Thank you very much for appearing before us.

2389
03:43:44,290 --> 03:43:50,510
I don't see any hands up, so there's no questions for you.

2390
03:43:50,610 --> 03:43:52,330
So thank you again for being here.

2391
03:43:53,370 --> 03:43:55,770
Well, Councillor Lewis, just put his hand up.

2392
03:43:57,110 --> 03:43:57,650
Go ahead, Councillor.

2393
03:43:58,270 --> 03:43:59,130
Sorry, Mr. Mayor.

2394
03:43:59,270 --> 03:44:00,570
Just a quick question from Monica.

2395
03:44:00,730 --> 03:44:02,190
You made reference to the fact that you're a farmer.

2396
03:44:02,350 --> 03:44:03,450
Do you mind telling me where are you farm?

2397
03:44:05,660 --> 03:44:06,080
Sure.

2398
03:44:06,600 --> 03:44:09,740
I am on the Nathadarii's creaking town line.

2399
03:44:10,780 --> 03:44:11,020
You good?

2400
03:44:13,770 --> 03:44:14,150
Okay.

2401
03:44:14,810 --> 03:44:18,530
Thank you very much again for appearing before us this afternoon.

2402
03:44:18,530 --> 03:44:27,100
Our next delegation is Develine Radikin, resident of Fulton Hills.

2403
03:44:28,020 --> 03:44:29,300
Good afternoon and welcome.

2404
03:44:33,460 --> 03:44:34,460
Oh, you're unmuted.

2405
03:44:35,140 --> 03:44:37,300
Or you're muted, I meant the same.

2406
03:44:38,580 --> 03:44:39,220
There we go.

2407
03:44:40,420 --> 03:44:43,780
Good afternoon, Mayor Bonnet and Councillors.

2408
03:44:44,620 --> 03:44:52,600
The question which is, which one of these five growth concepts tips the scales?

2409
03:44:52,600 --> 03:44:56,680
towards a more community-centered and sustainable

2410
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:07,960
Just for a second, I'd like us to take a step backward. During the pandemic, you must agree,

2411
03:45:08,860 --> 03:45:16,260
vulnerabilities are being exposed in the social, medical, economic, and environmental

2412
03:45:16,260 --> 03:45:24,840
fabric of our lives. Because we are eager to build back better, all decisions in the

2413
03:45:24,840 --> 03:45:32,820
post-pandemic recovery must prioritize working together for the things we really need in our

2414
03:45:32,820 --> 03:45:40,840
community to ward a sustainable future. I've heard that echoed by Lisa and Kim and Monica.

2415
03:45:42,130 --> 03:45:49,300
I am promoting a paradigm shift in the direction of a large-scale transformation.

2416
03:45:49,300 --> 03:45:59,280
That being, that growth plan 3B, no sprawl outside of current boundaries, is chosen by

2417
03:45:59,280 --> 03:45:59,880
our council.

2418
03:46:02,480 --> 03:46:08,500
I have read that municipalities have control over activities that account for nearly

2419
03:46:08,740 --> 03:46:14,220
half, half of all greenhouse gas emissions in Canada.

2420
03:46:14,220 --> 03:46:23,620
You did make a very bold move in May 2019 when the council declared a climate emergency

2421
03:46:23,620 --> 03:46:30,840
in Halton Hills through adoption of the declaration the town committed to taking concrete

2422
03:46:30,840 --> 03:46:40,300
actions to achieve a net zero target by 2030 to do that however takes more than a policy.

2423
03:46:41,360 --> 03:46:49,620
We must scale up, with rapid, far-reaching, and unprecedented changes in all aspects

2424
03:46:49,620 --> 03:46:55,100
of society, such as Monica's vision of her 2051.

2425
03:46:56,740 --> 03:47:01,260
Citizens of Halton Hills are making bold steps with you.

2426
03:47:02,180 --> 03:47:10,040
Before the pandemic, we folks at Paulton Hills rallied, gathered, made signs, and yelled

2427
03:47:10,040 --> 03:47:12,060
out slogans for climate change.

2428
03:47:13,200 --> 03:47:19,800
During the lockdown times of the pandemic, citizens at Paulton Hills like myself and many

2429
03:47:19,800 --> 03:47:27,440
folks I know had the time and took the time to upgrade our global and local awareness

2430
03:47:27,440 --> 03:47:28,920
and knowledge of issues.

2431
03:47:28,920 --> 03:47:39,410
We attended something like your agendas, workshops on the five different growth concepts

2432
03:47:39,410 --> 03:47:43,230
for population and jobs for the Houghton Regional Official Plan Review.

2433
03:47:43,630 --> 03:47:50,590
We attended webinars on various adaptation and mitigation initiatives that the town of

2434
03:47:50,590 --> 03:47:58,110
Oakville is pursuing to strengthen community resilience and toward changing climate.

2435
03:47:58,110 --> 03:48:05,470
We attended Zoom meetings from youth at McMaster University who are urging their university

2436
03:48:05,470 --> 03:48:09,050
to divest from investments in the fossil fuel industry.

2437
03:48:09,810 --> 03:48:17,270
We attended virtual protests against big banks and our pensions investing in fossil fuels.

2438
03:48:18,130 --> 03:48:24,090
We read reports of the Houghton Hills Council on updating our green development standards.

2439
03:48:24,850 --> 03:48:25,510
Good sign.

2440
03:48:25,510 --> 03:48:31,350
Last week, we got the recommendations regarding the Halt and Regional Official Plan review

2441
03:48:31,350 --> 03:48:34,250
growth concepts that we're talking about today.

2442
03:48:35,350 --> 03:48:41,990
Oh, did I mention in our spare time, we watched Netflix films on regenerative farming practices.

2443
03:48:43,130 --> 03:48:46,690
So we've been busy, you've been busy, we've been busy.

2444
03:48:46,990 --> 03:48:53,130
And together we're a strong engaged citizenship and counselors eager to create new solutions.

2445
03:48:53,870 --> 03:49:01,850
and we have forward-thinking thinkers like yourselves to make policy changes with a sustainable

2446
03:49:01,850 --> 03:49:09,650
future as the primary goal. Actually, we're all catching up to reality, I think, to meet the moment

2447
03:49:09,650 --> 03:49:18,870
that we're in. Together, we need to deliver the bold transformative solutions of the future. So back

2448
03:49:18,870 --> 03:49:24,430
Back to the question, which one of the five different growth concepts tips the scales

2449
03:49:24,910 --> 03:49:29,530
toward more community centeredness and serious climate action?

2450
03:49:31,230 --> 03:49:38,950
So in answering that question, I wrote a letter to all counselors on June 30th advocating

2451
03:49:38,950 --> 03:49:40,730
concept 3D.

2452
03:49:40,730 --> 03:49:47,510
I ask you to endorse the growth scenario that will determine how

2453
03:49:47,510 --> 03:49:50,870
Halton Hills will grow over the next 30 years.

2454
03:49:51,910 --> 03:49:54,230
This is an extremely important decision.

2455
03:49:55,310 --> 03:49:59,970
What you support will have implications for decades to come.

2456
03:50:01,750 --> 03:50:09,110
Councilor Somerville, you responded to my letter with these questions for me.

2457
03:50:10,430 --> 03:50:20,170
First question, are you okay with the option 3B? Increases in town taxes by 25% just to maintain

2458
03:50:20,170 --> 03:50:27,710
infrastructure and not adding in items like public transit? Second question, are you aware of

2459
03:50:27,710 --> 03:50:35,830
the issues that farmers in the area are facing with water? Third question, do you know the official plan

2460
03:50:35,830 --> 03:50:44,310
review does not necessitate an automatic review of boundaries that the land approved in 2009 is

2461
03:50:44,310 --> 03:50:54,050
still under appeal and has had two reviews. Last question. It is easy, Councillor Somerville,

2462
03:50:54,190 --> 03:51:00,570
you wrote, to click to send an email from a website but it does not have all the information.

2463
03:51:00,570 --> 03:51:09,490
So, Councilor Somerville, you're right. I do not have all the information. I have, however,

2464
03:51:09,850 --> 03:51:16,670
been doing my best to keep up with the flood of concern during these days of increased pressure

2465
03:51:16,670 --> 03:51:23,930
by the Ford government to push the development into every corner of the province. It seems to me

2466
03:51:23,930 --> 03:51:26,630
like the whole agenda is sprawl.

2467
03:51:28,840 --> 03:51:34,320
I live in the poet's corner of Georgetown in the streets of

2468
03:51:34,320 --> 03:51:44,200
Byron, Kelly, and Sheets and Keats. My neighbor, John, is an engineer working for a development

2469
03:51:44,200 --> 03:51:54,120
company, putting in the infrastructure in the area of the Trafalgar homes, 1.14 acre area,

2470
03:51:54,120 --> 03:52:00,020
just north of Britannia Road, and south of Louis-Sall-Laurent, Boulevard.

2471
03:52:01,180 --> 03:52:05,740
It is in the official plan and part of the urban area of Milton.

2472
03:52:06,520 --> 03:52:10,800
Can you picture that area? I've been down there recently, wow.

2473
03:52:11,980 --> 03:52:15,900
John says eight years ago or so Milton was a pleasant place.

2474
03:52:16,320 --> 03:52:18,800
Now it is sprawled all over the place.

2475
03:52:19,540 --> 03:52:27,020
John said, his move to Georgetown to raise his family was determined by the quality of

2476
03:52:27,020 --> 03:52:32,020
community life here and easy accessibility to goods and services.

2477
03:52:33,270 --> 03:52:39,680
I asked him, if his taxes were raised to preserve farmland and green spaces, would he agree

2478
03:52:39,680 --> 03:52:40,060
to that?

2479
03:52:40,940 --> 03:52:48,200
Yes, he said, when we spoke about increasing density within the current boundary, he said,

2480
03:52:48,200 --> 03:52:50,320
And it could be managed well.

2481
03:52:52,340 --> 03:52:54,940
Councilor Fogo also responded to my letter.

2482
03:52:55,660 --> 03:52:57,680
Thank you for sending the link to the report.

2483
03:52:58,620 --> 03:53:04,640
You noted that focusing growth through moderate intensification and mixed use development

2484
03:53:04,980 --> 03:53:08,500
helps to create desirable 15-minute neighborhoods.

2485
03:53:09,280 --> 03:53:12,260
I'm pretty lucky to live in that area, actually.

2486
03:53:12,260 --> 03:53:19,520
We recognize that farmland and halton is the best in the country, Ontario though is

2487
03:53:19,520 --> 03:53:24,060
losing 175 acres of farmland per day.

2488
03:53:25,520 --> 03:53:33,780
The Halton Agricultural Advisory Committee endorsed 3B, Plan 3B this week.

2489
03:53:34,240 --> 03:53:41,940
They stated that we must continue the availability of as much agricultural land for

2490
03:53:41,940 --> 03:53:45,760
or agricultural uses for as long as possible.

2491
03:53:46,660 --> 03:53:52,400
The growth concept that best achieves this is option 3B they wrote.

2492
03:53:53,800 --> 03:54:01,560
So counselors, choose growth concept 3B, no sprawl outside current boundaries.

2493
03:54:03,240 --> 03:54:09,260
If halton health approves the stack recommendation, then it is close to the worst case scenario

2494
03:54:09,260 --> 03:54:18,940
with a total of 7,900 acres lost in Halton region. It is shocking that Milton

2495
03:54:18,940 --> 03:54:25,460
is asking for all of its white belt to be brought into urban use. Then we

2496
03:54:25,460 --> 03:54:31,080
might be adding Halton Hills with the 2,300 acres lost for farming.

2497
03:54:34,120 --> 03:54:34,540
This

2498
03:54:34,540 --> 03:54:41,500
morning you might all have received a letter from my friend Kevin Anderson. He was

2499
03:54:41,500 --> 03:54:46,920
pointing to today's front page news that developers are fast-tracking

2500
03:54:46,920 --> 03:54:51,080
development to over 45 projects in Toronto.

2501
03:54:51,460 --> 03:54:53,000
Excuse me, Devlin?

2502
03:54:53,720 --> 03:54:53,860
Yes.

2503
03:54:54,320 --> 03:54:58,940
I've been trying to be lenient, but you've gone well over five minutes.

2504
03:54:59,020 --> 03:54:59,500
I'm sorry.

2505
03:54:59,860 --> 03:55:04,860
So if I could, maybe I'll give you one more minute, because we still have nine

2506
03:55:04,860 --> 03:55:08,240
delegations after you, and we've been here a long afternoon.

2507
03:55:08,240 --> 03:55:13,720
We are hoping that you choose growth concept 3D.

2508
03:55:14,140 --> 03:55:15,800
Thank you very much.

2509
03:55:16,100 --> 03:55:17,320
Thank you very much.

2510
03:55:17,340 --> 03:55:19,320
I see Councilor Somerville does have a stand.

2511
03:55:20,440 --> 03:55:32,200
No, I just wanted to thank her for mentioning that I had sent the email replied back because the click and send spam emails that were being sent started two days before the staff report was out.

2512
03:55:32,800 --> 03:55:37,580
And a lot of people were sending and saying do this without even saying the staff report.

2513
03:55:37,900 --> 03:55:42,780
So I appreciate at least you raised that you had looked up what those things were.

2514
03:55:43,000 --> 03:55:44,020
So thank you for that.

2515
03:55:44,560 --> 03:55:49,540
I do appreciate that at least you know you did have that because a lot of people were sending

2516
03:55:49,540 --> 03:55:54,760
them and there was a lot of misinformation and such as the reviews at five years and

2517
03:55:54,760 --> 03:55:55,180
ten years.

2518
03:55:55,440 --> 03:55:57,500
So I do appreciate that.

2519
03:55:57,500 --> 03:56:01,900
But the one thing I want to, I would like to mention to you is one of the things in

2520
03:56:01,900 --> 03:56:09,020
there was about it being the best farmland in the country, and we had a farmer today

2521
03:56:09,020 --> 03:56:14,620
who said, it's only the best farmland if you're trying to sell it, if you're trying, it's

2522
03:56:14,620 --> 03:56:15,660
not the best farmland.

2523
03:56:16,460 --> 03:56:23,940
And the reason I raised the boat, the water is, they're roughly not going to tell tales

2524
03:56:23,940 --> 03:56:27,820
of school. Councilor Lewis and I the last two days have been in discussion with a lot

2525
03:56:27,820 --> 03:56:33,700
of the farmers within Houghton Hills and out of the 18 within the White Belt as we told

2526
03:56:33,700 --> 03:56:39,820
they are, I think between the two of us, we've talked to 15 of them. Every single one of

2527
03:56:39,820 --> 03:56:47,900
them is raised issues with water, food quality, difficulty of being able to work in that area

2528
03:56:47,900 --> 03:56:56,700
and I don't know if you're aware of this, but 90% of everything grown in that area south

2529
03:56:56,700 --> 03:57:04,420
of Georgetown leaves the country. It's not consumed here. It is not consumed in Houghton

2530
03:57:04,420 --> 03:57:13,020
Hills, Houghton Region, or Ontario. A lot of it ends up down in Hamilton, and two of the

2531
03:57:13,020 --> 03:57:20,840
people who we met with today grow enough hay to feed cattle and horses. I could share

2532
03:57:20,840 --> 03:57:27,700
a video that would be absolutely shocking of their well and the color of the water coming

2533
03:57:27,700 --> 03:57:33,940
out of the well that they have to bring in water for animals to be able to do that. So

2534
03:57:33,940 --> 03:57:39,940
they can't sustain a vegetable crops and things like that. But that's just some of the research

2535
03:57:39,940 --> 03:57:43,760
that we have found in that and I didn't know if you were aware of that or not.

2536
03:57:44,100 --> 03:57:46,220
Not really. Thank you for telling me.

2537
03:57:47,280 --> 03:57:48,680
Thank you for being here two days.

2538
03:57:49,140 --> 03:57:49,340
Welcome.

2539
03:57:49,880 --> 03:57:51,500
Thank you, Councillor Lawler.

2540
03:57:53,880 --> 03:58:01,080
Yeah. I would just like to make a quick comment to thank Daisy for her human service and

2541
03:58:01,080 --> 03:58:02,360
for waving the flag.

2542
03:58:03,100 --> 03:58:09,500
The amount of exposure that she has given our residents of regarding climate change and

2543
03:58:09,500 --> 03:58:25,700
I have certainly appreciated she has worked very hard and I thank you for delegating today and thank you for your work over the last several years, Daisy in raising awareness regarding climate change.

2544
03:58:26,380 --> 03:58:27,080
Thanks a lot.

2545
03:58:30,660 --> 03:58:35,540
no further questions so again thank you for joining us this afternoon we

2546
03:58:38,900 --> 03:58:39,100
have

2547
03:58:39,100 --> 03:58:43,840
eight more delegations and I have some staff here including yours truly been

2548
03:58:43,840 --> 03:58:50,660
sitting peg to a seat for four hours I'm going to ask for five minute

2549
03:58:50,660 --> 03:58:56,920
bio break at least to get around the stretcher legs or something so maybe I

2550
03:58:56,920 --> 03:59:00,400
Everybody try to get back here for five o'clock. Thank you

2551
04:09:38,260 --> 04:09:44,480
Thank you, everybody, and we're going to continue. So our next delegation is Nancy Colmer from the

2552
04:09:44,480 --> 04:09:49,420
Holton Region Federation of Agriculture. So, good afternoon, Nancy, and welcome.

2553
04:09:52,280 --> 04:09:52,640
Thank you,

2554
04:09:52,740 --> 04:09:59,260
Mayor Bonnet. I wanted to start my conversation this afternoon with regards to just saying

2555
04:09:59,260 --> 04:10:04,520
thank you to two Mayor Bonnet and Holton Hills Council for providing this opportunity for

2556
04:10:04,520 --> 04:10:09,640
public input into the regional official plan review. And staff for their dedicated efforts

2557
04:10:09,640 --> 04:10:17,620
in making this this come this opportunity. So just turn on my screen there. Sorry.

2558
04:10:18,340 --> 04:10:22,700
My name is Nancy Comber and I'm speaking on behalf of Allen Ehrlich, President of the

2559
04:10:22,700 --> 04:10:28,700
Halt and Region Federation of Agriculture. My role with the Federation is coordinator

2560
04:10:28,700 --> 04:10:36,020
providing administrative and support services to the HRFA Board. In a volunteer role, I also have

2561
04:10:36,020 --> 04:10:40,700
the honor of being chair of the Halt and Agriculture Advisory Committee, and appreciate

2562
04:10:40,700 --> 04:10:46,300
the knowledge gained from this experience. However, I am not speaking on their behalf today,

2563
04:10:46,920 --> 04:10:51,240
and every references are made are part of public record.

2564
04:10:52,820 --> 04:10:58,580
The HRFA has been engaged in the regional official plan reviews on a regular basis, and have

2565
04:10:58,580 --> 04:11:04,780
worked with regional staff to express our concerns with regards to agriculture. We offer suggestions

2566
04:11:04,780 --> 04:11:11,800
and solutions to mitigate the effects on agriculture and provide OFA, HRFA, member notification

2567
04:11:12,340 --> 04:11:16,580
on upcoming meetings and surveys to ensure public consultation.

2568
04:11:17,640 --> 04:11:22,540
This regional official plan review has been very difficult for the rural farming community

2569
04:11:22,540 --> 04:11:29,080
to participate in today's reality. Virtual information sessions and virtual meetings are difficult

2570
04:11:29,080 --> 04:11:30,900
and the timeframe is short.

2571
04:11:31,640 --> 04:11:34,360
We realize the timelines were provincially mandated

2572
04:11:34,360 --> 04:11:37,820
and applaud planning stuff for working diligently

2573
04:11:37,820 --> 04:11:40,740
to provide concepts and public consultation

2574
04:11:41,180 --> 04:11:42,520
as much as possible.

2575
04:11:43,520 --> 04:11:45,880
HFA acknowledges the rights of individuals

2576
04:11:45,880 --> 04:11:49,880
to voice their opinion on the regional official plan review

2577
04:11:49,880 --> 04:11:53,640
directly to the region through feedback processes in place

2578
04:11:54,160 --> 04:11:57,020
to their counselors and to the HFR board.

2579
04:11:57,020 --> 04:12:05,680
We encourage it. However, the HRFA Board of Directors represent agriculture and farmers in the region of Halton.

2580
04:12:06,440 --> 04:12:13,640
And while we hear individual concerns, an individual director does not directly represent a farmer in their area,

2581
04:12:14,100 --> 04:12:22,680
the Board of Directors speaks the whole via motions and resolutions and directors are obligated to support consensus positions.

2582
04:12:22,680 --> 04:12:29,620
Opportunity to become an HRFA director happens in a democratic process following Robert's rules

2583
04:12:29,620 --> 04:12:31,000
on an annual basis.

2584
04:12:32,240 --> 04:12:37,740
In December of 2020, after a presentation from Kurt Benson, Director of Planning Services

2585
04:12:37,740 --> 04:12:44,560
and Chief Planning Official Regional Fulton and staff, the HRFA passed the following motion.

2586
04:12:45,960 --> 04:12:52,380
This resolution is to confirm HRAF A's position with regards to regional planning.

2587
04:12:52,780 --> 04:12:59,060
The HRAF A supports firm urban boundaries in the regional official plan.

2588
04:12:59,600 --> 04:13:09,020
Given the long planning horizon, there should be orderly phasing such that as much agriculture land remains in production for as long as possible.

2589
04:13:09,800 --> 04:13:17,460
The HRAF A encourages and supports maximum urban intensification as means to reduce requirements

2590
04:13:17,460 --> 04:13:25,060
for conversion of agriculture land to urban uses. The HRAF A agrees that HACC be the primary

2591
04:13:25,060 --> 04:13:30,300
reviewer of the growth strategy for the regional official plan on behalf of agriculture.

2592
04:13:31,420 --> 04:13:37,260
The HRAF A advises the region that we would like a direct and active role in regional

2593
04:13:37,260 --> 04:13:44,280
official plan role policy development. Given that the regional official plan growth strategies

2594
04:13:44,620 --> 04:13:51,080
all result in the loss of viable farmland, the HRFA will be looking for regional official

2595
04:13:51,080 --> 04:13:56,480
plan policy and other programs to make the remaining agricultural lands more productive.

2596
04:13:57,560 --> 04:14:04,820
Outside of the regional official plan, the HRFA wishes to once again extend an invitation to the

2597
04:14:04,820 --> 04:14:10,760
the region to join with us and the Ontario Federation of Agriculture to figure out how

2598
04:14:10,760 --> 04:14:15,680
to come up with a long-term plan that keeps agricultural land for agriculture.

2599
04:14:17,990 --> 04:14:24,350
From the outcomes of this motion include a preference for concept 3B or concept 3A.

2600
04:14:25,390 --> 04:14:32,170
We understand the province, sorry, the region has formulated a short-term agricultural working

2601
04:14:32,170 --> 04:14:36,110
group to develop policies to mitigate losses to agriculture.

2602
04:14:37,230 --> 04:14:42,690
HRAFA worked with the region on the mapping program to help farmers understand and dispute

2603
04:14:42,690 --> 04:14:47,810
regional designations on their properties, enabling the region to correct designations

2604
04:14:47,810 --> 04:14:49,170
made from aerial maps.

2605
04:14:50,170 --> 04:14:51,850
I'm sorry, aerial photos.

2606
04:14:52,810 --> 04:14:57,050
Work is being done by a cultural organization to respond to.

2607
04:15:00,000 --> 04:15:05,520
Local conservation authority initiatives. Agriculture needs to be recognized for the environmental

2608
04:15:05,520 --> 04:15:12,560
goods and services they provide. In closing, the HRFA supports firm urban boundaries in the

2609
04:15:12,560 --> 04:15:17,560
regional official plan. Given the long planning horizon, there should be orderly phasing,

2610
04:15:18,020 --> 04:15:24,040
such that as much agriculture land remains in production for as long as possible. We realize

2611
04:15:24,040 --> 04:15:28,800
due to provincial mandates you have to show urban development until 2051.

2612
04:15:29,760 --> 04:15:34,040
Regional staff have provided concepts which this could be accomplished.

2613
04:15:34,600 --> 04:15:39,320
We hope counselors will adopt a phased in process by favoring the least amount of land

2614
04:15:39,320 --> 04:15:44,320
taken out of agriculture, realizing the opportunity in five to ten years to expand

2615
04:15:44,320 --> 04:15:47,380
urban boundaries at that time if necessary.

2616
04:15:47,760 --> 04:15:52,000
I would like to highlight a recent agricultural growth in Halfton Hills

2617
04:15:52,000 --> 04:15:55,460
by recognizing the sheep dairy farm south of Acton,

2618
04:15:55,920 --> 04:15:59,320
which is the largest sheep dairy farm in Canada,

2619
04:16:00,140 --> 04:16:02,860
and the largest in North America in the near future.

2620
04:16:03,640 --> 04:16:05,480
Currently, they employ 10 people

2621
04:16:05,480 --> 04:16:06,980
and are growing their market.

2622
04:16:07,740 --> 04:16:10,240
Who could have predicted this five years ago?

2623
04:16:11,760 --> 04:16:13,620
Agriculture is not dying in Holton.

2624
04:16:13,900 --> 04:16:15,440
It is changing and adapting.

2625
04:16:16,160 --> 04:16:17,080
Give it a chance.

2626
04:16:17,760 --> 04:16:20,980
Remember, once agriculture land is paved over, it is gone.

2627
04:16:22,160 --> 04:16:25,240
Thank you so much for the opportunity to present today.

2628
04:16:29,010 --> 04:16:31,190
Thank you very much, Nancy, for your presentation.

2629
04:16:31,490 --> 04:16:33,990
Councillor Lewis has a question for you.

2630
04:16:35,270 --> 04:16:37,110
Yeah, just one of the start, Nancy,

2631
04:16:37,230 --> 04:16:39,610
and thank you very much for the information you've passed on.

2632
04:16:42,740 --> 04:16:45,860
In recent days, I've had an opportunity to be

2633
04:16:45,860 --> 04:16:47,300
on-site at various farms.

2634
04:16:48,300 --> 04:16:49,920
And I have to ask you this.

2635
04:16:50,120 --> 04:16:51,480
You made reference to a number of times

2636
04:16:51,480 --> 04:16:53,280
to the whole real federation of agriculture,

2637
04:16:53,420 --> 04:16:55,840
which I've been at the events

2638
04:16:55,840 --> 04:17:02,320
I think it's fantastic. How many farms do they represent in Halton Hills? Because clearly,

2639
04:17:02,500 --> 04:17:06,500
based on information that I got as recently as today from two different farms I was at,

2640
04:17:07,100 --> 04:17:12,800
they do not represent everybody. So if you said to me, there is, and I don't pick a number,

2641
04:17:13,160 --> 04:17:20,780
75 farms in Halton, 25 in Halton Hills or whatever, what percentage of that is actually represented

2642
04:17:20,780 --> 04:17:22,120
by Halton Federation of Agriculture?

2643
04:17:24,730 --> 04:17:26,770
Thank you for the question, Councillor Lewis.

2644
04:17:26,770 --> 04:17:35,290
So, through the OFA membership, there is approximately 330 farmers in Halton.

2645
04:17:35,650 --> 04:17:44,370
That number does not include the farmers that are with the Farmers Union or with the Christian

2646
04:17:44,370 --> 04:17:45,530
Farmers Association.

2647
04:17:48,570 --> 04:17:54,290
But because we do get regional funding for some of our projects, we do endeavor to represent

2648
04:17:54,290 --> 04:17:55,750
as many as we possibly can.

2649
04:17:55,750 --> 04:17:56,730
And

2650
04:17:58,780 --> 04:18:00,220
I just have one more right now.

2651
04:18:01,080 --> 04:18:05,460
Who is the one and who is the authority that says this and it's been quoted?

2652
04:18:06,260 --> 04:18:08,340
This is the best farmland in Canada.

2653
04:18:10,970 --> 04:18:17,610
Oh, I would have to look back and find that out for you, Councillor Lewis.

2654
04:18:17,930 --> 04:18:26,330
I don't actually know who the direct quote is, but I will tell you from provincial designations

2655
04:18:26,330 --> 04:18:33,810
and that halton does contain class 1, 2, and 3, which are considered prime agricultural

2656
04:18:33,810 --> 04:18:41,730
lands. And that most of that prime agricultural land is within the white belts.

2657
04:18:44,610 --> 04:18:45,290
So when you're

2658
04:18:45,290 --> 04:18:51,130
looking at maps, for example, that are provided by the municipalities, when they're showing

2659
04:18:51,130 --> 04:18:58,110
areas that are what they're calling agricultural or farmlands, there is a significant portion

2660
04:18:58,110 --> 04:19:05,790
of that. That is natural heritage that farmers have to deal with. And as you well know, a lot of

2661
04:19:05,790 --> 04:19:11,670
the farmers that are in the escarpment area, it's a lot of rocks up there. It's not prime farmland

2662
04:19:11,670 --> 04:19:18,230
and they do the best they can. Well, no, and I mean, and again, I don't want to take up

2663
04:19:18,230 --> 04:19:24,050
it on. But this morning, as we said, the farmer pointed at that field and that field and said to us,

2664
04:19:24,050 --> 04:19:29,810
I can't get on that. That crop is wasted because I can't get on there. The field is of no value to him.

2665
04:19:30,430 --> 04:19:36,070
He said it's definitely not one class one farmland. And that's why I asked the question is how do we get the designation?

2666
04:19:36,730 --> 04:19:44,430
When in fact his words to us were that crop is wasted. And and not it was that part of that is also with water

2667
04:19:45,910 --> 04:19:51,070
Carp made reference a lot of go about he ran water there that you wouldn't even wash your feet it

2668
04:19:51,070 --> 04:19:52,930
But that's what he's supposed to be dealing with.

2669
04:19:53,550 --> 04:19:57,110
And then of course the cash traders should keep bringing for all the stuff that they

2670
04:19:57,110 --> 04:19:59,990
had to do in order to just exist on the very farm is that.

2671
04:20:00,470 --> 04:20:06,150
So that's why you're just curious as to how does the destination of best farmland and

2672
04:20:06,150 --> 04:20:11,190
Canada to be used when in fact some of it, and I talked to a guy just last week and

2673
04:20:11,190 --> 04:20:14,510
five years later, he said that field has been fouled for years.

2674
04:20:15,630 --> 04:20:19,790
And so that's anyway, I'll leave it be, and perhaps I'll come back with another one.

2675
04:20:19,790 --> 04:20:21,330
but thank you very much and as you appreciate it.

2676
04:20:21,530 --> 04:20:23,570
Okay, if I can add, Councillor Lewis,

2677
04:20:23,830 --> 04:20:27,350
it's again, the primary agricultural land designation

2678
04:20:27,350 --> 04:20:29,110
is through the province,

2679
04:20:29,650 --> 04:20:32,390
and it has to do with the soil classification.

2680
04:20:34,790 --> 04:20:38,770
And as an individual supporting the HRFA,

2681
04:20:39,750 --> 04:20:42,370
we reach out to members as best we can.

2682
04:20:42,570 --> 04:20:47,110
We do provide typically two newsletters,

2683
04:20:47,330 --> 04:20:48,810
a year, eight-page newsletter

2684
04:20:48,810 --> 04:20:57,390
with items of concerns, and I also do regularly email blasts to Halton farmers, providing them

2685
04:20:57,390 --> 04:21:03,950
information and notification on what is going on. I also have an open door policy where they

2686
04:21:03,950 --> 04:21:09,890
can email and call me at any time if they had any concerns that they would like to bring to the

2687
04:21:09,890 --> 04:21:14,490
federation. No, I have done that on a personal basis, but it's very difficult when you're

2688
04:21:14,490 --> 04:21:19,230
a farm property today. And he says, what the heck's going on here? He went up and down

2689
04:21:19,230 --> 04:21:23,430
the road that he lives on. And none of them were aware of the fact of what the region

2690
04:21:23,430 --> 04:21:27,810
is going through right now relative and the impact on farmlands. So it's a breakdown

2691
04:21:27,810 --> 04:21:32,910
someplace. Maybe his mailbox was stolen for a week. I have no idea. But I'm just giving

2692
04:21:32,910 --> 04:21:37,070
you truthful stories that happen as recently as this morning in conversation with farmers

2693
04:21:37,070 --> 04:21:41,670
as we sit on farm property. So I'll leave that be. But anyway, again, I thank you very

2694
04:21:41,670 --> 04:21:45,230
much and I'm sure I'll be back to another question. Thanks, Nancy.

2695
04:21:45,690 --> 04:21:46,110
Thank you.

2696
04:21:46,630 --> 04:21:48,830
Thank you. I have councilor Somerville.

2697
04:21:50,470 --> 04:21:55,530
No, I had put my hand down because my question I was going to ask the delegation.

2698
04:21:55,970 --> 04:21:58,310
I answered it in response to council laws.

2699
04:21:59,210 --> 04:22:01,930
Thank you, councilor Somerville. I have council lawler.

2700
04:22:05,370 --> 04:22:10,690
Thanks very much, Mr. Mayor. And thanks very much Nancy for coming in and speaking with us.

2701
04:22:10,690 --> 04:22:19,710
I'd like to clarify please if you would, how decision making occurs with your organization.

2702
04:22:19,930 --> 04:22:26,330
You made reference to elections on a regular basis and people can be nominated and so

2703
04:22:26,330 --> 04:22:26,570
forth.

2704
04:22:26,850 --> 04:22:33,950
So you have regular board meetings and resolutions are brought forward and there is a vote

2705
04:22:33,950 --> 04:22:42,110
or, you know, I'm struggling a little bit with who represents whom, and so if you could

2706
04:22:42,110 --> 04:22:44,750
just go through that again, please thank you.

2707
04:22:46,050 --> 04:22:52,750
So the Houghton Region Federation of Agriculture represents farmers in Halton and to provide

2708
04:22:52,750 --> 04:22:54,150
that representation.

2709
04:22:54,790 --> 04:23:02,050
We have a yearly annual general meeting that is promoted through a newsletter directly

2710
04:23:02,050 --> 04:23:06,050
with it front page covered that the annual general meeting is happening.

2711
04:23:06,850 --> 04:23:13,310
Email Blosses are sent out to those members who choose to receive email Bloss.

2712
04:23:13,430 --> 04:23:17,730
There's about half of the farmers in Houghton that choose to receive that.

2713
04:23:18,270 --> 04:23:25,130
As well as by word of mouth from two various other farm organizations within the

2714
04:23:25,130 --> 04:23:29,310
Houghton that would promote the annual general meeting.

2715
04:23:29,310 --> 04:23:34,390
Our annual general meeting and all of our meetings are conducted by Robert's rules.

2716
04:23:35,810 --> 04:23:44,590
And we have a constitution and so we meet typically, we meet monthly with the exception

2717
04:23:44,590 --> 04:23:53,010
of May when people are out planting and typically in July, we typically have a break as well.

2718
04:23:54,110 --> 04:24:00,010
We may cancel meetings if it's due to bad weather and different things like that, but typically

2719
04:24:00,010 --> 04:24:06,890
we do meet at least 10 times a year and decisions are made as a board through motions and resolutions.

2720
04:24:08,410 --> 04:24:16,390
And thank you. And so from what I understand from the resolution that you read, this issue has been

2721
04:24:16,390 --> 04:24:22,810
brought forward to the Board of Directors. There has been a rather full discussion and the

2722
04:24:22,810 --> 04:24:29,630
resolution resulted from that and it was voted on by a majority of the duly elected representatives.

2723
04:24:30,610 --> 04:24:35,690
Okay. That is correct. And in the minutes of the meeting were approved at the following

2724
04:24:35,690 --> 04:24:41,370
meetings. So it was endorsed at the meeting and then further endorsed in the approval of the minutes.

2725
04:24:42,010 --> 04:24:49,690
Okay. So so so I can feel that so this resolution is has a significant representation from the

2726
04:24:49,690 --> 04:24:57,090
farming community in Halton. Okay, thanks very much. Appreciate it. Okay. Thank you, Councillor

2727
04:24:57,090 --> 04:25:05,390
Ingalls. Thank you, Worship, and thank you, Nancy, for your presentation. I have one question,

2728
04:25:05,790 --> 04:25:11,190
and I'm not sure if you brought it up under the resolution or not. I was sort of writing at the time.

2729
04:25:11,190 --> 04:25:17,970
And could you clarify it? I believe you said the organization would support

2730
04:25:17,970 --> 04:25:26,630
concept 3a and 3b. And before you answer that, concept 3a would allow some

2731
04:25:26,630 --> 04:25:35,690
expansion, some employment land expansion. At the very least here, perhaps

2732
04:25:35,690 --> 04:25:41,030
into the agricultural area. So did I hear that right? Can you just make sure that

2733
04:25:41,030 --> 04:25:45,330
you mentioned both of those concepts or did I take something incorrectly?

2734
04:25:46,110 --> 04:25:48,270
I did mention both of those concepts.

2735
04:25:49,110 --> 04:25:51,010
3B would be our preferred.

2736
04:25:52,310 --> 04:26:01,510
However, we do recognize the need that there is need for employment in the area.

2737
04:26:02,010 --> 04:26:08,770
And we have strongly recommended, let me back up there,

2738
04:26:08,770 --> 04:26:12,490
through the HAC committee and the HR representatives,

2739
04:26:12,510 --> 04:26:17,630
the HR representatives on HAC have strongly encouraged

2740
04:26:17,630 --> 04:26:21,270
that some of those for employment development to happen

2741
04:26:21,270 --> 04:26:25,550
that they consider businesses that actually support agriculture.

2742
04:26:26,750 --> 04:26:33,650
So for example, an abattoir, it's very hard for any beef producers,

2743
04:26:34,870 --> 04:26:39,490
sheep and pork and chickens to find an

2744
04:26:39,490 --> 04:26:44,950
abattoir, to process, you know, or even

2745
04:26:49,250 --> 04:26:51,590
like terracotta cookies and things like

2746
04:26:51,590 --> 04:26:54,830
that that can use local products to

2747
04:26:54,830 --> 04:26:56,190
produce a product.

2748
04:26:58,510 --> 04:26:59,490
That's good. I

2749
04:26:59,490 --> 04:27:01,270
just wasn't sure whether they both came

2750
04:27:01,270 --> 04:27:04,670
up or when I was writing it was that I

2751
04:27:04,670 --> 04:27:06,470
I put down something that I shouldn't have.

2752
04:27:07,010 --> 04:27:08,090
I appreciate the answer.

2753
04:27:08,250 --> 04:27:08,790
Thank you very much.

2754
04:27:09,150 --> 04:27:09,950
Okay, thank you.

2755
04:27:10,630 --> 04:27:12,690
Thank you, and next is Councilor Fogel.

2756
04:27:14,950 --> 04:27:18,170
Mayor, well, I want to thank Nancy for the presentation.

2757
04:27:19,110 --> 04:27:21,130
As an alternate on the HAC committee,

2758
04:27:21,370 --> 04:27:25,650
I've watched them in their work on the official plan.

2759
04:27:26,810 --> 04:27:29,530
And they were setting aside Tuesday evenings

2760
04:27:29,530 --> 04:27:32,090
for several hours each Tuesday evening

2761
04:27:32,090 --> 04:27:40,250
to go through that 600-page discussion paper section by section, so they certainly did their homework.

2762
04:27:41,610 --> 04:27:49,110
I just wanted to confirm I'm going to quote from the rural agricultural strategy of

2763
04:27:49,110 --> 04:27:57,010
for Houghton for 2016 that says Houghton Region is home to a productive agricultural sector based

2764
04:27:57,010 --> 04:28:03,090
on outstanding soils of an evident climate and a community of farmers actively engaged in farming.

2765
04:28:03,610 --> 04:28:10,510
The findings of the land evaluation area review study conducted by the region in 2008 confirmed

2766
04:28:10,510 --> 04:28:16,590
the presence of a significant amount of prime agricultural land in Houghton. Interspersed with small

2767
04:28:16,590 --> 04:28:25,690
pockets of land with lower scores specifically above the agreement with the exception of a few isolated

2768
04:28:25,690 --> 04:28:33,290
located pockets, the land comprising the rural areas south of the Green Belt north of the urban strip along Lake Ontario was all prime agricultural land.

2769
04:28:34,290 --> 04:28:38,750
So I think that's where some of that is coming from, from, from the region itself.

2770
04:28:40,230 --> 04:28:45,850
So I just want to confirm what, what Nancy is saying about the prime agricultural land.

2771
04:28:46,150 --> 04:28:46,590
Thank you.

2772
04:28:47,490 --> 04:28:48,550
Thank you, Jane.

2773
04:28:54,410 --> 04:28:55,270
Thank you.

2774
04:28:55,270 --> 04:29:01,830
very much for your presentation. It's great to hear sort of an official position of the farmers,

2775
04:29:01,830 --> 04:29:10,510
as opposed to a few anecdotal comments from some that may not agree. But I guess in any,

2776
04:29:10,590 --> 04:29:14,930
as well as around our council table, we don't always agree, but when a resolution passes,

2777
04:29:15,310 --> 04:29:19,830
that's our position. So I do appreciate that you brought that forward in your explanation.

2778
04:29:19,830 --> 04:29:26,270
But I just want to ask Fennel, or you probably are aware of this, that many of the farms around,

2779
04:29:26,830 --> 04:29:33,010
well, in the white belt are not owned by the farmers. And I just want to clarify how that works.

2780
04:29:33,450 --> 04:29:44,150
Do the landowner, a developer, owns 100 acres of, and someone else farms it. Do they

2781
04:29:44,150 --> 04:29:49,110
participate in your organization? Do they come forward and sit at the table and say,

2782
04:29:49,110 --> 04:29:53,430
you know, I hate farming or I love farming, I don't agree with it.

2783
04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:08,200
These are these members, people who actually, well, first of all, do they all own their farms, and if not, are they farming other land?

2784
04:30:10,040 --> 04:30:26,240
So we have approximately, we have 18 board members. Okay. And I would say currently one of which is owns land and another person rents it and farms it from him.

2785
04:30:26,240 --> 04:30:37,280
He does sit on the board and all the other farmers that are on the board do on land.

2786
04:30:38,200 --> 04:30:39,300
Thank you very much.

2787
04:30:39,560 --> 04:30:40,980
Sorry, go through my mind there.

2788
04:30:43,560 --> 04:30:44,800
No, thank you.

2789
04:30:44,900 --> 04:30:55,740
That gives me some assurance that you're actually representing people who own the farms and farm the farms and not maybe the people who just

2790
04:30:55,740 --> 04:30:59,360
online without being interested in farming. So thank you.

2791
04:30:59,740 --> 04:31:04,540
If I may, the board is actually, so the people on the board, a lot of them sit on

2792
04:31:04,540 --> 04:31:09,440
other agricultural committees as well. So for example, we have someone on the

2793
04:31:09,440 --> 04:31:14,220
Cattleman's Association. So she would bring comments from the

2794
04:31:14,220 --> 04:31:18,400
Cattleman's. We have other people that sit on the soil and crop who would bring

2795
04:31:18,400 --> 04:31:30,560
comments from there. So we have representatives on quite a number of committees through our board.

2796
04:31:31,380 --> 04:31:36,760
That's really great to know. Thanks so much. Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Somerville.

2797
04:31:37,920 --> 04:31:42,120
Yes, thank you. Some of the responses prompt another question. On your board,

2798
04:31:42,500 --> 04:31:47,240
how many of the members of your board are actually farmers? That would be in what we call the white belt.

2799
04:31:47,960 --> 04:31:51,000
because the farming community that we wrote that both

2800
04:31:51,000 --> 04:31:53,360
Councilor Lewis and I have been in contact with the last

2801
04:31:53,360 --> 04:31:57,140
couple days felt a real disconnect and the fact that there

2802
04:31:57,140 --> 04:32:02,760
wasn't a lot of them on that board I would have to say

2803
04:32:02,760 --> 04:32:08,740
Clark that they need to take the initiative to be on the

2804
04:32:08,740 --> 04:32:09,260
board.

2805
04:32:11,600 --> 04:32:14,560
It's all into everybody they're welcome to come to an

2806
04:32:14,560 --> 04:32:17,800
annual general meeting they get notice of an annual general

2807
04:32:17,800 --> 04:32:23,440
meeting. They can put their name forward. The list of the directors is on every newsletter

2808
04:32:23,440 --> 04:32:31,880
with the telephone numbers as well as my contact number. So they can have their name stand

2809
04:32:31,880 --> 04:32:38,560
to be a director on the board. And we welcome everyone. We welcome new blood to the board.

2810
04:32:40,000 --> 04:32:50,080
So I would have to say if they don't feel they're represented, then they need to come

2811
04:32:50,080 --> 04:32:57,860
to the board and talk to us and or stand for election and become part of the board.

2812
04:32:58,600 --> 04:33:00,220
So presently there isn't anybody.

2813
04:33:01,420 --> 04:33:09,080
Presently, we have one person who I perceive owns land in the White Bell.

2814
04:33:10,660 --> 04:33:11,820
And thank you for that.

2815
04:33:12,900 --> 04:33:15,920
And I did have another question, but it just escaped my mind, so that's what it is.

2816
04:33:15,920 --> 04:33:18,540
He doesn't farm it, he rents it out.

2817
04:33:19,440 --> 04:33:26,680
But you also have some people who live in like more of a small place and rent a lot of land.

2818
04:33:26,860 --> 04:33:28,260
You do have people who are involved in the world.

2819
04:33:28,260 --> 04:33:28,620
Correct.

2820
04:33:30,060 --> 04:33:36,780
And actually, there was a recent study done by our farm credit Canada, and it indicated

2821
04:33:36,780 --> 04:33:42,760
that renting farmland is a common practice across Canada just because of the value of

2822
04:33:42,760 --> 04:33:43,240
our land.

2823
04:33:44,180 --> 04:33:44,520
Absolutely.

2824
04:33:45,140 --> 04:33:49,580
I guess another issue I'd like to tackle since, you know, I remember my question, Mr.

2825
04:33:49,700 --> 04:33:50,500
Merrill, try to be brief.

2826
04:33:50,500 --> 04:33:57,280
Something that was raised to us over the last couple of days is the difficulty with taxation

2827
04:33:57,760 --> 04:33:59,960
with the price of land.

2828
04:34:01,080 --> 04:34:09,360
And to went even though that the land, though, and they may get a, they may pay a 25% or

2829
04:34:09,360 --> 04:34:14,940
20% rate of what the residential would be on that and, you know, that formula.

2830
04:34:14,940 --> 04:34:22,320
but with the land value going up, it's still putting such a pinch for lack of a

2831
04:34:22,320 --> 04:34:29,040
better word on what they can do to actually make any money on it. And is that

2832
04:34:29,040 --> 04:34:32,320
something that has been found by the Federation? I know there was a work done on

2833
04:34:32,320 --> 04:34:36,340
the impact piece and we have a delegation coming up later who was involved in

2834
04:34:36,340 --> 04:34:40,280
that. Is that something that they have found from other from other farmers within

2835
04:34:40,280 --> 04:34:41,480
Farmers

2836
04:34:44,640 --> 04:34:55,060
face many challenges, Clark, and the value of the land can affect the credit

2837
04:34:55,060 --> 04:34:59,320
available that they need to farm the land and to grow the land.

2838
04:35:00,440 --> 04:35:09,460
Some farmers possibly take longer to transition into productive crops or choose not to transition

2839
04:35:09,460 --> 04:35:10,680
into productive crops.

2840
04:35:11,340 --> 04:35:22,720
We have farmers that are becoming of retirement age and wish to sell the farms, so I don't think I've answered your question there, I'm sorry, but...

2841
04:35:24,120 --> 04:35:27,820
Yeah, and you know what, but it's one that you might not know the answer to and that's fine.

2842
04:35:27,820 --> 04:35:35,820
But what it was is if the land value has doubled over the last 10 years, they're now paying

2843
04:35:35,820 --> 04:35:43,740
a based on an impact rate of X, which is what the new rate is, their income may not

2844
04:35:43,740 --> 04:35:47,380
have grown because of stable pricing and all that for commodities.

2845
04:35:48,440 --> 04:35:53,340
Taxes have actually increased that much more, and that's where I was getting at if that's

2846
04:35:53,340 --> 04:35:54,100
something you had found.

2847
04:35:54,100 --> 04:36:01,340
But like I said, it's a very difficult, complicated question over how farms are assessed anyway.

2848
04:36:01,640 --> 04:36:03,380
So, if you don't have an answer for that, that's fine.

2849
04:36:03,620 --> 04:36:09,140
So, I will tell you, Clark, that through the HRFA and worked on at HACC,

2850
04:36:09,940 --> 04:36:15,080
members, Bert Andrews, Robert McClure, and Rick Friesen,

2851
04:36:17,220 --> 04:36:23,340
actually they were all Holt and Hill farmers looked in depth at this and worked with

2852
04:36:23,340 --> 04:36:29,100
impact to help them understand the conditions of farm values in Halton.

2853
04:36:29,600 --> 04:36:33,280
And I know they were, I believe they felt successful at that time.

2854
04:36:34,400 --> 04:36:37,400
It's maybe an issue that needs to be looked at again.

2855
04:36:38,420 --> 04:36:43,840
And the two that are still Halton Hill's residents, I've spoken with over the last two days.

2856
04:36:44,140 --> 04:36:45,620
So thank you for that Nancy.

2857
04:36:46,080 --> 04:36:46,560
Okay.

2858
04:36:46,760 --> 04:36:47,160
Thank you.

2859
04:36:49,490 --> 04:36:50,370
Thank you Nancy.

2860
04:36:50,710 --> 04:36:52,210
I don't see any other hands up.

2861
04:36:52,210 --> 04:36:54,270
So thank you very much for delegating today.

2862
04:36:55,790 --> 04:36:56,690
Thank you.

2863
04:36:57,570 --> 04:37:02,270
Our next delegation is Gary Kroll, resident of Fulton Hills.

2864
04:37:02,410 --> 04:37:05,190
I apologize if I mispronounced your name.

2865
04:37:13,140 --> 04:37:13,860
Yes, I can.

2866
04:37:14,920 --> 04:37:19,000
For some reason, I can't hear anyone.

2867
04:37:22,180 --> 04:37:23,080
Can you hear me?

2868
04:37:23,740 --> 04:37:23,940
Now,

2869
04:37:36,140 --> 04:37:37,360
you're muted.

2870
04:37:39,880 --> 04:37:42,020
I can't hear anyone saying anything.

2871
04:37:44,260 --> 04:37:47,160
Oh, that's too bad because we can hear you perfectly.

2872
04:38:03,850 --> 04:38:05,810
I'm just doing a test here, test

2873
04:38:16,630 --> 04:38:17,610
to see if I hear myself.

2874
04:38:22,120 --> 04:38:23,100
Can you hear us?

2875
04:38:23,920 --> 04:38:25,000
Ah, now I can hear you.

2876
04:38:25,280 --> 04:38:25,600
Oh good.

2877
04:38:26,440 --> 04:38:27,500
Okay, sorry.

2878
04:38:27,620 --> 04:38:27,820
Welcome.

2879
04:38:28,020 --> 04:38:28,960
Don't know what happened.

2880
04:38:29,360 --> 04:38:29,560
Did

2881
04:38:35,060 --> 04:38:35,940
I lost everyone again?

2882
04:38:36,260 --> 04:38:36,760
Or not?

2883
04:38:37,460 --> 04:38:37,820
No.

2884
04:38:37,940 --> 04:38:38,180
Can you hear me?

2885
04:38:38,820 --> 04:38:40,060
We can hear you perfectly.

2886
04:38:40,980 --> 04:38:41,640
You can hear me.

2887
04:38:41,700 --> 04:38:41,820
Good.

2888
04:38:42,460 --> 04:38:42,700
All right.

2889
04:38:43,940 --> 04:38:47,400
Well, obviously, I'm the late Gary Crowley, sorry about that.

2890
04:38:48,820 --> 04:38:54,820
As a travel writer and photographer who started a nearly 50 years ago at the Brampton

2891
04:38:54,820 --> 04:39:00,280
W. Times, which is now extinct, I've seen a lot of the world and I wanted to briefly

2892
04:39:00,280 --> 04:39:06,220
comment on how Canada and specifically the GTA compares with other places.

2893
04:39:06,880 --> 04:39:12,240
I have no statistics, charts, or graphs, I'm leaving that to others more qualified.

2894
04:39:12,240 --> 04:39:18,700
And I do appreciate the extensive research put into the proposed growth scenarios here.

2895
04:39:19,380 --> 04:39:24,080
I'm just offering an opinion based on personal experiences and awareness.

2896
04:39:25,010 --> 04:39:31,360
I realize it's a simplified response to a complex issue, though always with an eye on the

2897
04:39:31,360 --> 04:39:31,520
ball.

2898
04:39:31,880 --> 04:39:32,640
I hope so, anyway.

2899
04:39:33,380 --> 04:39:33,700
Oh, yes.

2900
04:39:34,100 --> 04:39:40,900
And tempered as the last night's dinner by a Chinese fortune cookie advising me to keep your

2901
04:39:40,900 --> 04:39:47,540
idealism practical. That's a tough one that balances the word. So, coming to the chase,

2902
04:39:48,560 --> 04:39:54,760
on all my travels I've noticed one disturbing trend, the disappearance of the natural world

2903
04:39:55,410 --> 04:40:00,640
with resulting environmental degradation and the misery that comes with it. I've seen some

2904
04:40:00,640 --> 04:40:07,280
horrific scenes. Regarding Canada, my 50-year observation of Cummings and Goings

2905
04:40:07,280 --> 04:40:10,260
is that we've kept a frontier mentality

2906
04:40:10,260 --> 04:40:13,340
of clearing the land, regardless of the consequences.

2907
04:40:14,300 --> 04:40:17,140
I'm hoping these discussions of a growth will update

2908
04:40:17,140 --> 04:40:20,620
that mindset, although I do have a streak of cynicism.

2909
04:40:21,260 --> 04:40:23,240
I'm wondering if Group 7 painting

2910
04:40:23,240 --> 04:40:26,120
is will be all we have left of the despair in landscape.

2911
04:40:27,240 --> 04:40:30,320
We talk a good talk about concern for the environment,

2912
04:40:30,520 --> 04:40:32,200
but the way we've been building our communities

2913
04:40:32,200 --> 04:40:33,920
keeps increasing our footprint.

2914
04:40:33,920 --> 04:40:41,720
to put it bluntly, Europe and even China put us to shame with their preservation of the land and the greening of cities.

2915
04:40:42,800 --> 04:40:46,400
And now, in addition to climate change, COVID is another glitch to deal with.

2916
04:40:47,320 --> 04:40:53,640
I see both factors, climate change and COVID has a call for greater self-sufficiency.

2917
04:40:54,240 --> 04:41:01,480
Not just with medical readiness, our food supply, too, as other presenters have already mentioned.

2918
04:41:01,480 --> 04:41:09,040
Some experts, and there's been some contention about this, say Ontario soil

2919
04:41:09,040 --> 04:41:13,220
modernism on the world's best, and that was pointed out in a recent article

2920
04:41:13,220 --> 04:41:19,000
on the global mail. Maximizing these would minimize dependence on foreign

2921
04:41:19,000 --> 04:41:24,660
fires, which can only be good for us. Overall, based on what I witnessed in my

2922
04:41:24,660 --> 04:41:30,320
travels, I agree with the experts. We are at a tipping point. This is a serious

2923
04:41:30,320 --> 04:41:37,620
stop and Holt and Hills is going to till one way or the other. We all know complexity makes it

2924
04:41:37,620 --> 04:41:43,560
difficult to maintain focus. It's going to take a creative approach to preserve the land that

2925
04:41:43,560 --> 04:41:49,920
sustains us but as cowboy philosopher Will Rogers once said they ain't making any more of it

2926
04:41:50,540 --> 04:41:58,540
and to repurpose what Red Green would have said we can change maybe if we want to. Thanks for your

2927
04:41:58,540 --> 04:42:05,480
attention. Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentation and it's worth

2928
04:42:05,480 --> 04:42:11,440
the wait. So thank you very much. Are there any questions of Gary?

2929
04:42:13,880 --> 04:42:14,080
Having

2930
04:42:14,080 --> 04:42:18,480
none, again, thank you very much for your delegation. Thank you.

2931
04:42:23,920 --> 04:42:24,640
So our next

2932
04:42:24,640 --> 04:42:29,700
delegation is Peter Lambrick from the Holton Region Federation of Agriculture

2933
04:42:29,700 --> 04:42:32,000
and Peter will be phoning in.

2934
04:42:41,720 --> 04:42:49,220
I apologize, I came on just as Nancy was starting her presentation, and some of what

2935
04:42:49,220 --> 04:42:56,080
she said, I don't think I need to reiterate because she said it so well.

2936
04:42:57,640 --> 04:43:06,000
One of the things that has been good throughout this has been the support that we have felt

2937
04:43:06,000 --> 04:43:17,000
within the agriculture community by your council and by the advisory committees that we are able

2938
04:43:17,000 --> 04:43:22,200
to access at the region while going through this O.P. study. Be

2939
04:43:27,070 --> 04:43:29,650
with the stance that Milton

2940
04:43:29,650 --> 04:43:40,010
potential has taken being on the other end of the intensification spectrum, and we can

2941
04:43:40,010 --> 04:43:50,690
only hope that we can get pushed through the contention that concept 3a and b at this

2942
04:43:50,690 --> 04:44:01,390
point is the best options that we have because we see that or feel that it doesn't

2943
04:44:01,390 --> 04:44:10,070
preclude anybody from developing or development of the land that they have because that is

2944
04:44:10,070 --> 04:44:13,570
already in the next 10 year plan.

2945
04:44:13,570 --> 04:44:24,220
And the other items which we would in agriculture are very pleased to see that Houghton Hills

2946
04:44:24,220 --> 04:44:35,160
is promoting are the Green Development Standards as part of your OP, and I hope that intensification

2947
04:44:35,820 --> 04:44:43,840
along with complete walkable communities will move forward more transit usage, because the

2948
04:44:43,840 --> 04:44:53,600
The ag community is also concerned and somebody mentioned it earlier on about the weather we received last week.

2949
04:44:54,220 --> 04:44:58,320
Those sorts of rainstorms are good when you...

2950
04:45:14,580 --> 04:45:30,280
So I will stop at that if there are any other questions in regards to agriculture. I am prepared to answer them for you. Thank you very much, Peter. I do have Councilor Somerville with a hand up.

2951
04:45:31,780 --> 04:45:33,920
Thank you so much, Peter, for being here today.

2952
04:45:34,480 --> 04:45:40,440
I'm going to ask a similar question to what we had asked Nancy, and it was in the discussion

2953
04:45:40,440 --> 04:45:42,380
over the last few days about this.

2954
04:45:42,940 --> 04:45:49,760
A lot of the farmers in the white belt area, especially in Holt and Hills, felt a real disconnect

2955
04:45:50,200 --> 04:45:55,420
and I think one the way, I'm trying to remember exactly how they put it, I think they said they

2956
04:45:55,420 --> 04:46:00,160
felt Holt and Regent Federation of Agriculture was going one way when they were going another

2957
04:46:00,160 --> 04:46:03,200
and they found even that difference within the OFA.

2958
04:46:04,040 --> 04:46:07,120
I don't know if that's something that you can comment on or not, Peter.

2959
04:46:09,640 --> 04:46:11,120
Thank you, Chancellor Clark.

2960
04:46:12,680 --> 04:46:18,160
Having sat on the OFA board for a while,

2961
04:46:19,320 --> 04:46:23,340
I too felt somewhat slated on there occasionally because

2962
04:46:24,100 --> 04:46:27,580
anything to do was not agriculture.

2963
04:46:30,210 --> 04:46:30,890
Am I still there?

2964
04:46:30,890 --> 04:46:43,090
you are. Okay thank you and so when they have come out with these series of OPs being

2965
04:46:43,090 --> 04:46:51,870
a lot more vocal about the land that is being lost and also having concern with the misuse

2966
04:46:51,870 --> 04:47:02,450
of them that always instead of writing good land use planning, it is good that they are

2967
04:47:02,450 --> 04:47:08,870
starting to realize that we are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to how things

2968
04:47:08,870 --> 04:47:12,870
are happening and where they're happening and the GTA's been at for a long time.

2969
04:47:14,850 --> 04:47:25,390
and I also heard some of your questions in regards to some of the members not feeling that they

2970
04:47:25,390 --> 04:47:35,790
were part or could be party to it because I'm not certain what the region spends on their

2971
04:47:35,790 --> 04:47:45,690
advertising budget, but the OP is in most local papers most every week. So I think some people

2972
04:47:45,690 --> 04:47:49,410
unfortunately are not as engaged as they couldn't should be.

2973
04:47:50,610 --> 04:47:56,370
Well, and I think that's where I think part of the problem lies, Peter, is that I know

2974
04:47:56,370 --> 04:48:03,170
for the local Metroland paper, I've seen it three times in the last year and twice of those

2975
04:48:03,170 --> 04:48:07,650
was in the last month. I never see the paper. I don't even see the ads. I don't even get those.

2976
04:48:07,910 --> 04:48:12,290
So I think we got to stop spending the money on that and figure out another way. But they actually

2977
04:48:12,290 --> 04:48:18,910
because of the impact of it, one of them suggested today that they should have had more of the

2978
04:48:18,910 --> 04:48:22,650
federation doing that because they said they knew it was difficult for the region. But well,

2979
04:48:22,910 --> 04:48:26,150
we'll park that one, Peter. I think we can agree. We can all do better.

2980
04:48:26,830 --> 04:48:31,490
The other one that has been raised to us is about the land in South Georgetown,

2981
04:48:33,490 --> 04:48:41,250
specifically about the 90% of the crops aren't even ending up being used in Canada, being

2982
04:48:41,250 --> 04:48:44,390
shipped off shore, and such a small percentage is.

2983
04:48:44,730 --> 04:48:50,190
And there are some greenhouses there where they are being used, but they are exiting

2984
04:48:50,190 --> 04:48:50,970
out of Haltman.

2985
04:48:52,390 --> 04:48:53,990
So, do you have a comment on that?

2986
04:48:55,400 --> 04:49:04,960
Yes, because I'm likely one of those farmers that is exporting the bulk of his production.

2987
04:49:05,820 --> 04:49:10,660
And some of that is going to Asia for human consumption of soybeans.

2988
04:49:11,620 --> 04:49:17,320
Some of it's going to Europe for feeding some of their livestock.

2989
04:49:18,100 --> 04:49:20,740
But all of it is what Canada does.

2990
04:49:21,020 --> 04:49:22,720
Canada is a trading nation.

2991
04:49:22,720 --> 04:49:27,720
figures I have in front of me here suggest that this is going

2992
04:49:27,720 --> 04:49:34,840
unfortunately back to 2016 but dollars of production in

2993
04:49:34,840 --> 04:49:39,940
Holton at that time and I'm sure with the increased pricing

2994
04:49:39,940 --> 04:49:43,840
that we have seen in grains and oil seeds in the intervening

2995
04:49:43,840 --> 04:49:50,780
five years we were at $143 million in production in 2016.

2996
04:49:50,780 --> 04:50:00,620
So we're only a small entity compared to what the overall Canadian production is, but I'm

2997
04:50:00,620 --> 04:50:03,800
sorry, it's helping the GDP of the country.

2998
04:50:06,420 --> 04:50:07,300
Thank you for that, Peter.

2999
04:50:07,440 --> 04:50:08,600
Those are my questions.

3000
04:50:08,860 --> 04:50:12,600
I could probably keep you here for an hour, but I see there's other people who want to

3001
04:50:12,600 --> 04:50:13,140
ask questions.

3002
04:50:16,530 --> 04:50:17,630
Thank you, Councillor Lewis.

3003
04:50:19,410 --> 04:50:24,290
Thank you, and good afternoon, Mr. Rembrick, or good evening, and this is a conversation

3004
04:50:24,290 --> 04:50:29,250
that I think initially you and I should have with somebody's back porch and not in a public form.

3005
04:50:29,910 --> 04:50:35,430
I recognize and I'm aware of the fact and I think you made reference to the fact that you are

3006
04:50:36,410 --> 04:50:43,070
I'll say living on a farm of small acres but yet farming many acres in order to be that

3007
04:50:43,070 --> 04:50:52,110
that's your vocation is the within the farming community. All right and I think then I have

3008
04:50:52,110 --> 04:50:58,190
to be very candidly and to be in your best interest that you had more land in order to farm more

3009
04:50:58,750 --> 04:51:05,050
and be more in an hotel where I'm coming from. Today we have and three farmers are saying to us

3010
04:51:05,050 --> 04:51:11,230
without something else, for me to run a farm of 100 acres, I could never survive. And every one of

3011
04:51:11,230 --> 04:51:15,790
my talk to was making reference the fact that I had to do something else. My family doesn't want to

3012
04:51:15,790 --> 04:51:21,690
take over the farm. I had to shut it down. They talked to us today about a farm that I'd take you to

3013
04:51:21,690 --> 04:51:27,570
was got a gate and chain on it. And the person who was then, and I want to be vague to a certain degree,

3014
04:51:28,170 --> 04:51:32,210
they've gone and gone east and are affirming twice as amount is what they did in Houghton Hills,

3015
04:51:32,330 --> 04:51:36,670
because they said we can't survive. And I don't want to give away all of the stuff that I want to

3016
04:51:36,670 --> 04:51:42,270
speak about, but is it not something that our farming community faces? And whether that you made

3017
04:51:42,270 --> 04:51:48,350
reference to crops and talking to a farmer today, and I think Clark made reference to it, the grain

3018
04:51:48,350 --> 04:51:52,630
The green comes out of the, in a truck that's driven to such and such a place, A, if they

3019
04:51:52,630 --> 04:51:56,250
don't get a ticket for being overloaded on a street, they're not supposed to be on,

3020
04:51:56,330 --> 04:51:59,830
they get from their farm to a greenery operation in Hamilton.

3021
04:52:00,770 --> 04:52:03,750
To watch the green come out of the truck, they're going to go right to a boat.

3022
04:52:04,870 --> 04:52:09,990
And we have the people saying here that we're feeding our area, never mind what it is we're

3023
04:52:09,990 --> 04:52:15,470
doing with it, but people who advocate that we're feeding, it's almost like every, I'll say

3024
04:52:15,470 --> 04:52:18,110
The brush of the grain becomes a little for bread for somebody in the halton.

3025
04:52:18,290 --> 04:52:20,150
The reality is it doesn't happen.

3026
04:52:20,830 --> 04:52:23,050
And all I've said to anybody, let's be real.

3027
04:52:23,570 --> 04:52:27,850
Let's take a drive in southern part of the Halton Hills to find out how many farms are gone,

3028
04:52:28,550 --> 04:52:34,810
how many barns are down, how many properties are not being farmed by the farmer that may

3029
04:52:34,810 --> 04:52:36,090
or may not own it.

3030
04:52:37,270 --> 04:52:40,510
And I had no idea what a string 100 acres was.

3031
04:52:40,710 --> 04:52:44,210
When you start talking to some of these old timers and they tell you, and today it was

3032
04:52:44,210 --> 04:52:49,550
like we can't we can't make a living just farming. It's too tough and farmers are not buying farms.

3033
04:52:50,110 --> 04:52:55,350
All right. So those are the kind of stuff. And I don't want to talk about equipment purchases and

3034
04:52:55,350 --> 04:53:00,630
that kind of stuff. But for anybody, do you know, I mean, I can tell you families who are not

3035
04:53:00,630 --> 04:53:07,490
remaining in the farming industry because it's just too tough. Do you know of anybody that's come in

3036
04:53:07,490 --> 04:53:12,450
from outside that is a farmer buying a farm and said, okay, I'm going to take that farm on one, two,

3037
04:53:12,450 --> 04:53:19,250
three-meter nice line and make it into a viable farming operation because we're told that's not

3038
04:53:19,250 --> 04:53:25,450
happening. Farmers are not selling the farms. There's a question in there, some place fear.

3039
04:53:27,760 --> 04:53:30,700
Yeah, you've done the gamut there.

3040
04:53:33,000 --> 04:53:41,880
Okay, so I am going to take some of the best farmers that

3041
04:53:41,880 --> 04:53:48,140
lived on Trafalgar Road, but have gone in different directions because they were in livestock

3042
04:53:48,140 --> 04:53:56,220
operations, and livestock operations have become quite regulated as far as manure management

3043
04:53:56,220 --> 04:54:03,420
is concerned, and it does require additional acreages so that they have plenty of land

3044
04:54:03,420 --> 04:54:06,060
for that proper manure management.

3045
04:54:06,060 --> 04:54:15,860
And so, they have taken the opportunities to move their families forward and moved away from Halton.

3046
04:54:16,720 --> 04:54:30,200
So, that is a segment of agriculture that when I came to Canada, I do believe there were three to 400 dairy farms in Halton.

3047
04:54:30,200 --> 04:54:42,080
now we're down to four or five. So live stock is basically gone. There are a few

3048
04:54:42,080 --> 04:54:49,820
poultry operations. You heard about the sheep farm south of Hecton. That is great.

3049
04:54:50,240 --> 04:54:55,980
So there are people that are coming in and starting but they are starting in an

3050
04:54:55,980 --> 04:55:03,460
an area where they think that they can stay and will not be driven out because of smells

3051
04:55:03,460 --> 04:55:14,080
etc. And this is why the grains and oil seed sector basically is less invasive from

3052
04:55:14,080 --> 04:55:26,060
that standpoint. And yes, it is not easy to farm and I, as you alluded to, I am one

3053
04:55:26,060 --> 04:55:33,980
of the few farmers that I have a land base of six acres, which is my home base, and

3054
04:55:33,980 --> 04:55:37,940
all of the rest of my land is rented.

3055
04:55:38,760 --> 04:55:48,820
I do know of a farmer who, and I will call him a farmer because when he buys a farm,

3056
04:55:50,500 --> 04:55:51,980
he is,

3057
04:55:56,050 --> 04:55:59,050
he is putting drainage where it needs drainage.

3058
04:56:00,730 --> 04:56:07,290
He is getting the level of fertility back up on some of the farms that maybe have been

3059
04:56:07,290 --> 04:56:18,910
let go, but he is doing it with off-farm income. He runs a computer business and it's obviously

3060
04:56:18,910 --> 04:56:27,870
making money because he's buying a million and a half dollar farms one a year and has

3061
04:56:27,870 --> 04:56:36,690
done for the last eight years that I've known him. So there are people that still have a sense

3062
04:56:36,690 --> 04:56:40,990
of where they want to be and where they want to go,

3063
04:56:41,250 --> 04:56:46,530
and some of the people I'm sure in that segment of land

3064
04:56:46,530 --> 04:56:50,430
that was discussed earlier between Trafalgar Road

3065
04:56:50,430 --> 04:56:55,750
and Ninth Line, some of these gentlemen

3066
04:56:55,750 --> 04:57:03,420
are just top-notch farmers of sold land

3067
04:57:04,380 --> 04:57:13,800
in York in places, in Peele from others, and are moving to Holton and now want to sell

3068
04:57:13,800 --> 04:57:14,580
again and move.

3069
04:57:15,360 --> 04:57:21,700
So you have to get the context of where these people are coming from and why they are

3070
04:57:21,700 --> 04:57:26,420
maybe saying what they are, because agriculture in the last

3071
04:57:28,500 --> 04:57:31,380
hasn't been too awfully bad.

3072
04:57:31,380 --> 04:57:37,340
Well, no, and I guess I have to say that's good to hear because I'm not here in that very often.

3073
04:57:38,060 --> 04:57:43,080
And I don't want to end up in a debate, and I'm going to make later on a present-errored

3074
04:57:43,080 --> 04:57:48,800
comments relative to bile solids, and if I said to you a farmer that's doing ex-monovacres,

3075
04:57:49,300 --> 04:57:52,220
where do you buy your farm machinery?

3076
04:57:52,440 --> 04:57:53,360
Where do you get your stuff repaired?

3077
04:57:53,360 --> 04:57:54,300
Definitely,

3078
04:58:00,120 --> 04:58:09,460
there is not enough numbers to see those implement dealerships in Holt and

3079
04:58:09,460 --> 04:58:14,180
any longer, the feed mills that, you know, need, but that wasn't downtown Milton.

3080
04:58:15,240 --> 04:58:19,280
And, and validified, there used to be a feed mill at one time.

3081
04:58:19,620 --> 04:58:28,280
So the infrastructure that we need is no longer here, but it isn't that it's not attainable.

3082
04:58:29,060 --> 04:58:33,400
Okay, I appreciate it. Thanks very much for putting up with me.

3083
04:58:34,400 --> 04:58:37,120
Hey, it's always a nice challenge. Thank you.

3084
04:58:39,700 --> 04:58:41,300
And you and I are not done.

3085
04:58:43,930 --> 04:58:44,570
Councilor Johnson.

3086
04:58:47,130 --> 04:58:51,510
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you very much for your presentation, Peter.

3087
04:58:51,930 --> 04:58:56,310
My question has to do with the fact that it was mentioned that a lot of the crops,

3088
04:58:56,310 --> 04:59:00,930
including I think you mentioned your own, were being set out, sent out of the country.

3089
04:59:00,930 --> 04:59:06,010
But just to, I mean, I know the answer to this question, but just to clarify, it's still

3090
04:59:06,010 --> 04:59:11,290
food and that it is still class one or whatever farmland, right?

3091
04:59:11,430 --> 04:59:14,390
That doesn't change just because the crop goes elsewhere, does it?

3092
04:59:16,190 --> 04:59:27,970
In my mind, no, we are just another industry in Canada that helps to keep the lights on.

3093
04:59:28,810 --> 04:59:39,310
We are an industry that should be feeding more of its own people but the

3094
04:59:39,310 --> 04:59:46,330
unfortunate part about it is we have five months of winter and so growing the

3095
04:59:46,330 --> 04:59:55,230
fruits and veg that are needed during those months is not available to us. So we

3096
04:59:55,230 --> 04:59:58,430
are making adaptations if you were to

3097
05:00:00,620 --> 05:00:12,580
The House is acreage in, say, 2010 versus 2021. It has, I would think, nearly tripled. And

3098
05:00:12,580 --> 05:00:21,180
that's because we are trying to keep up with other crops other than cannabis. So, it is,

3099
05:00:21,180 --> 05:00:33,580
Yeah, we are always increasing our production, and we're lucky that we have some of the

3100
05:00:33,580 --> 05:00:40,940
best land and the one which we have here in abundance is fresh water around us.

3101
05:00:41,760 --> 05:00:45,980
That is something is going to be so important in the future.

3102
05:00:46,720 --> 05:00:53,380
So I guess the follow-up to that is, you know, we talked a lot about climate change today and

3103
05:00:53,380 --> 05:00:58,200
and we all know the climate is changing, which I'm not saying that's a good thing that we'd have

3104
05:00:58,200 --> 05:01:03,700
a longer growing season. That's not my point. But my point is that if, if our food supply

3105
05:01:04,380 --> 05:01:10,280
that we get a lot, I know food some vegetables from the U.S. But if there was a, you know, some major

3106
05:01:10,280 --> 05:01:16,460
shift in how we feed our own people. That land could certainly be for the growing season

3107
05:01:16,460 --> 05:01:22,480
that we have. Could support a lot of food for Canadians if we needed it. Is that correct?

3108
05:01:24,920 --> 05:01:33,120
Yes. Every acre that comes out of production is an acre less that won't come back and somebody

3109
05:01:33,120 --> 05:01:34,340
else mentioned earlier on.

3110
05:01:36,720 --> 05:01:41,120
People can't farm the Canadian field and I'm not certain that

3111
05:01:41,120 --> 05:01:47,180
people actually want to live on the Canadian shield. So, you know, these are things. They're

3112
05:01:47,180 --> 05:01:54,440
practicality and reality. And you folks are facing a dead center today.

3113
05:01:55,120 --> 05:02:00,800
Okay. You're right. So, thank you so much for those answers. That really helps. Thanks.

3114
05:02:01,560 --> 05:02:02,340
Thank you.

3115
05:02:04,490 --> 05:02:08,850
Thank you, Councillor Somerville. Sorry to belabor the point, but it was the question.

3116
05:02:08,850 --> 05:02:12,270
and Councilor Johnson asked part of the question that I was going to ask.

3117
05:02:12,990 --> 05:02:17,050
And it's on growing fruits and vegetables is in some of the ones we were speaking with

3118
05:02:17,050 --> 05:02:20,390
around in the white belt area south of Halt and Hills.

3119
05:02:21,510 --> 05:02:26,390
One of the one of them indicated that the difficulty of trying to grow things like fruit and vegetables

3120
05:02:27,070 --> 05:02:33,730
is the fact that there's too much saline in the water from road salt runoff and other problems

3121
05:02:33,730 --> 05:02:34,330
like that.

3122
05:02:34,330 --> 05:02:42,150
So I just wondered about that Peter if you had any any comment on that because they said that it's difficult enough with

3123
05:02:42,150 --> 05:02:47,710
Hey and hey yields having a problem as well as soy beans and some of the other ones, but they said that

3124
05:02:48,810 --> 05:02:52,390
That's a problem with looking at doing fruits and vegetables.

3125
05:02:55,720 --> 05:02:56,220
I

3126
05:02:56,960 --> 05:03:01,880
Can definitely concur with that. I have seen it on some of my own land

3127
05:03:01,880 --> 05:03:14,620
a particular field in Burlington that we farm, and it is unfortunate, but this is the

3128
05:03:14,620 --> 05:03:26,680
coexistence of road salt and road safety and agriculture, and so yes, I am not going

3129
05:03:26,680 --> 05:03:30,340
to deny that it can be an issue.

3130
05:03:31,360 --> 05:03:37,100
That was why I was asking about amount used locally, Peter, is because I know it's

3131
05:03:37,100 --> 05:03:41,460
exported, but we've had people talking about with climate change, we should use the land

3132
05:03:41,460 --> 05:03:46,540
for local food when there are those difficulties that are on there now.

3133
05:03:47,440 --> 05:03:53,260
And we don't have the beef operations, like, you know, up on, to fog or on Winston Churchill,

3134
05:03:53,260 --> 05:03:55,740
so there was someone who had a lot of head of beef

3135
05:03:55,740 --> 05:03:56,820
who has had to get rid of them

3136
05:03:56,820 --> 05:04:00,340
because of road salt issues and wells and that as well.

3137
05:04:00,720 --> 05:04:01,660
So thank you for that, Peter.

3138
05:04:03,610 --> 05:04:04,610
Thank you very much.

3139
05:04:05,590 --> 05:04:06,570
Thank you, Peter.

3140
05:04:06,850 --> 05:04:09,510
We have no other questions, so your work is done.

3141
05:04:10,130 --> 05:04:11,650
At least at the council meeting.

3142
05:04:13,270 --> 05:04:14,310
Thank you, Your Worship.

3143
05:04:14,710 --> 05:04:16,310
Much appreciate the opportunity.

3144
05:04:17,010 --> 05:04:17,690
Thank you again.

3145
05:04:18,490 --> 05:04:21,910
Our next delegation is Janelle Bascom,

3146
05:04:21,910 --> 05:04:24,070
who is a resident of Halton Hills.

3147
05:04:29,950 --> 05:04:30,750
Welcome, Janelle.

3148
05:04:42,780 --> 05:04:44,380
Janelle, you're muted.

3149
05:04:46,440 --> 05:04:50,000
I'm just trying to correct that. Okay, and I can hear you now.

3150
05:04:50,160 --> 05:04:52,060
Yep, we can hear you now.

3151
05:04:52,960 --> 05:04:57,680
Okay, I'm not sure why my video isn't working, but I'll proceed in the interest of time.

3152
05:04:59,320 --> 05:05:02,320
Good evening, Mayor Benette, Councillors and guests.

3153
05:05:03,240 --> 05:05:07,960
My name is Janelle Baskam. I was born in Oakville, grew up in Milton,

3154
05:05:07,960 --> 05:05:12,000
and returned to Halton in 2007 to live here in Georgetown.

3155
05:05:13,990 --> 05:05:16,030
I am the mother of two teenage sons,

3156
05:05:16,670 --> 05:05:19,270
and I am also a proud member of Al Gore's

3157
05:05:19,270 --> 05:05:21,150
Climate Reality Leadership Corps.

3158
05:05:22,330 --> 05:05:24,690
Three years ago, I trained with Vice President Gore,

3159
05:05:25,310 --> 05:05:26,890
and learned the science of climate change.

3160
05:05:29,360 --> 05:05:32,880
In doing so, I learned the severity of the crisis facing humanity

3161
05:05:32,880 --> 05:05:34,520
and the urgency for action.

3162
05:05:35,500 --> 05:05:37,260
Because of my education and training,

3163
05:05:37,260 --> 05:05:40,340
I am here to speak in support of concept 3B.

3164
05:05:42,180 --> 05:05:46,400
I want to speak up for this plan because I believe it is the most responsible choice

3165
05:05:46,400 --> 05:05:47,860
that our leadership can make.

3166
05:05:49,060 --> 05:05:54,820
An entire community in Litten, BC was destroyed because the effects of climate change created

3167
05:05:54,820 --> 05:06:00,240
a heat dome that enabled a human-made fire to decimate 90% of that community.

3168
05:06:00,880 --> 05:06:06,880
This is just one recent example that illustrates the necessity and urgency of taking action

3169
05:06:06,880 --> 05:06:10,200
now to mitigate the coming climate-related threats.

3170
05:06:11,520 --> 05:06:17,520
Because concept 3B is the only option that protects our forests and farmland, it is the

3171
05:06:17,520 --> 05:06:18,600
obvious choice to make.

3172
05:06:19,740 --> 05:06:24,240
We cannot hope to meet our climate targets while simultaneously developing thousands of

3173
05:06:24,240 --> 05:06:26,460
acres of land that should be left alone.

3174
05:06:28,650 --> 05:06:31,410
I realize that there are concerns about intensification.

3175
05:06:31,410 --> 05:06:39,710
I heard from developers. I heard from Mr. Lowe's, but here's the thing. We can do hard things.

3176
05:06:41,110 --> 05:06:47,830
We must do the difficult things. Nothing about slowing climate change is easy, but we're going

3177
05:06:47,830 --> 05:06:55,090
to do it anyway. So choose Concept 3B. Choose the option that protects the future for our children and

3178
05:06:55,090 --> 05:07:02,270
their children and for all the children to follow. Two weeks ago before council my son made an

3179
05:07:02,270 --> 05:07:07,230
excellent point and I will repeat it here. He cited the Cree prophecy that states,

3180
05:07:07,850 --> 05:07:12,370
when the last tree is cut down, the last fish eaten and the last stream is poisoned,

3181
05:07:12,950 --> 05:07:20,690
then you will realize you cannot eat money. I'm a Spencer on this. We need farmland so farmers can

3182
05:07:20,690 --> 05:07:26,750
grow food that can be eaten. We need forests because they give us oxygen and because they're

3183
05:07:26,750 --> 05:07:27,330
carbon sinks.

3184
05:07:29,720 --> 05:07:33,080
Whatever arguments there are for development, they are not going to convince

3185
05:07:33,080 --> 05:07:40,480
me that paving over nature is a good idea in 2021. We know better. So we must do better.

3186
05:07:41,100 --> 05:07:45,380
There is a moral imperative to make good decisions when we know what the right one is.

3187
05:07:51,460 --> 05:07:53,460
There are

3188
05:07:53,460 --> 05:07:58,960
I may seem naive, or idealistic, or too much like a tree hugger, but so be it.

3189
05:07:59,980 --> 05:08:02,840
I think some faith in all of you is well placed.

3190
05:08:04,020 --> 05:08:06,920
I think we need strong ideals to guide us to good decisions.

3191
05:08:08,120 --> 05:08:12,380
And I think having trees to hug, should we ever want to, would be pretty great.

3192
05:08:13,600 --> 05:08:15,160
Choose Concept 3B, please.

3193
05:08:16,220 --> 05:08:16,900
Thank you.

3194
05:08:16,900 --> 05:08:25,900
Thank you very much. I don't see any hands up for questions. So again, thank you very much,

3195
05:08:26,080 --> 05:08:30,020
Janelle, for coming before us. My pleasure. Thank you.

3196
05:08:30,780 --> 05:08:36,620
And here's our next delegation, and it is Spencer Lepa. Again, a resident of Fulton Hills,

3197
05:08:36,620 --> 05:08:39,240
he's well known to counsel. Welcome, Spencer.

3198
05:08:40,580 --> 05:08:45,080
Good afternoon, Mayor Bennett, counselors and guests. My name is Spencer Lepa.

3199
05:08:45,080 --> 05:08:49,140
I am 14 years old and I am the youngest ever member of the Green Party of Canada.

3200
05:08:49,620 --> 05:08:53,120
I joined at age 10 because I needed a future I could count on.

3201
05:08:53,400 --> 05:08:56,480
I needed leadership that would care for and protect the environment.

3202
05:08:57,180 --> 05:09:01,260
I've been fighting for the environment for four years now, and this afternoon I need

3203
05:09:01,260 --> 05:09:01,880
to fight some more.

3204
05:09:02,480 --> 05:09:04,220
I'm fighting for Concept 3B.

3205
05:09:04,920 --> 05:09:10,520
Before I begin my defense of Concept 3B, I want to respectfully express my disbelief that

3206
05:09:10,520 --> 05:09:12,080
we're even having this conversation.

3207
05:09:12,080 --> 05:09:16,960
My mother asked me if I wanted to speak at Council again about this issue, I was shocked.

3208
05:09:17,460 --> 05:09:19,180
I do not understand the reasoning for this.

3209
05:09:19,520 --> 05:09:22,960
It's beyond my comprehension that any other concept is even being considered.

3210
05:09:23,480 --> 05:09:27,660
I just don't understand her development can appeal to any of you when we have climate

3211
05:09:27,660 --> 05:09:33,020
change targets to meet and we have evidence around us everywhere showing us that protecting

3212
05:09:33,020 --> 05:09:36,780
our green spaces is imperative to the fight against climate change.

3213
05:09:36,780 --> 05:09:42,260
We need you to consider and then vote in support of Concept 3B is what young people want.

3214
05:09:42,540 --> 05:09:47,300
No one wants our leadership to pave over and develop farmland or forests, certainly not

3215
05:09:47,300 --> 05:09:48,020
any young people.

3216
05:09:48,460 --> 05:09:52,740
I know from my climate strikes on Fridays that environmentalism and action to end climate

3217
05:09:52,740 --> 05:09:56,440
change are incredibly important to my friends, classmates and peers.

3218
05:09:57,000 --> 05:09:59,720
We are too young to vote, but we are not too young to speak up.

3219
05:10:00,200 --> 05:10:01,940
It is your responsibility to listen.

3220
05:10:02,940 --> 05:10:06,600
Maybe I'm too young to understand all the economics, but I'm pretty sure you can't

3221
05:10:06,600 --> 05:10:06,940
eat money.

3222
05:10:07,500 --> 05:10:09,740
We need a community that protects farmland and forests.

3223
05:10:10,240 --> 05:10:14,520
We need a community that is willing to do the hard work of intensification, and I need

3224
05:10:14,520 --> 05:10:19,340
you to choose a future that considers my future, and I need you to choose concept 3B.

3225
05:10:19,840 --> 05:10:20,180
Thank you.

3226
05:10:22,540 --> 05:10:25,060
Thank you very much, Spencer.

3227
05:10:25,960 --> 05:10:28,040
Are there any questions for Spencer?

3228
05:10:29,720 --> 05:10:34,620
I don't see any hands up. Thank you very much again for appearing before us.

3229
05:10:35,440 --> 05:10:40,760
Our next delegation is Andrew Kunika from Fulgerbrook Farm,

3230
05:10:49,480 --> 05:10:50,240
are you there Andrew?

3231
05:10:54,800 --> 05:10:57,360
Yes, we can, Andrew. We can hear the alarm.

3232
05:10:57,760 --> 05:10:59,240
Technical difficulty there.

3233
05:11:02,050 --> 05:11:05,070
Council, thank you for allowing me to hear today.

3234
05:11:06,250 --> 05:11:11,550
My family has been operating a farm located in close proximity to the premier gateway

3235
05:11:11,550 --> 05:11:14,130
We on Trafalgar Road in Colton Hills for over 50 years.

3236
05:11:15,070 --> 05:11:19,810
When we started, there was more than 30 cattle dairy farms in Houghton County.

3237
05:11:20,730 --> 05:11:22,050
Now there is one remaining.

3238
05:11:24,000 --> 05:11:26,480
We're one of the few family farms still operating in Houghton Hills.

3239
05:11:27,140 --> 05:11:29,700
When we began, we started with 200 acres.

3240
05:11:30,740 --> 05:11:32,200
We farm that much today as well.

3241
05:11:34,840 --> 05:11:38,340
Once was many local operators supporting farm supply chain.

3242
05:11:38,340 --> 05:11:46,220
Local granaries accepted our produce, local vendors service our machinery, local farm supply

3243
05:11:46,220 --> 05:11:48,040
stores supported our operations.

3244
05:11:48,860 --> 05:11:53,980
Local roads were available for us to drive our equipment on, unencumbered and safely.

3245
05:11:55,000 --> 05:11:58,240
There was a local skilled workforce in agriculture.

3246
05:11:58,920 --> 05:12:05,000
There was a local agriculture office who supported farmers and helped navigate the government

3247
05:12:05,000 --> 05:12:05,600
of bureaucracy

3248
05:12:08,960 --> 05:12:12,140
and junior farmer chapters who trained up the next generation.

3249
05:12:13,640 --> 05:12:16,680
The local farm community supported one another.

3250
05:12:17,560 --> 05:12:19,260
Sadly, those days are over.

3251
05:12:21,510 --> 05:12:23,290
No local people to accept are great.

3252
05:12:24,210 --> 05:12:27,530
Large grain trucks are needed to haul greater distances to find a buyer.

3253
05:12:28,730 --> 05:12:34,490
If we want parts or service for farm machinery, we must travel to Wellington County, visiting

3254
05:12:34,490 --> 05:12:36,890
co-ops or TSE stores.

3255
05:12:36,890 --> 05:12:43,010
First, simply require us now to drive 100 kilometers as they do not exist in Hulton any

3256
05:12:43,010 --> 05:12:43,250
alone.

3257
05:12:44,510 --> 05:12:51,550
These greater travel distances result in increased operating costs and also increased

3258
05:12:51,550 --> 05:12:52,310
carbon emissions.

3259
05:12:53,740 --> 05:12:59,770
Our local roads are congested and no longer farm machine friendly and have become a safety

3260
05:12:59,770 --> 05:13:01,430
risk for both farmers and drivers.

3261
05:13:02,390 --> 05:13:08,370
The local labor pool is non-existent, and foreign seasonal labor has become the norm.

3262
05:13:09,910 --> 05:13:16,030
The notion that Holton's a prime spot for continuing existing farming operations, let

3263
05:13:16,030 --> 05:13:20,130
alone expanding them, is unattainable and honestly absurd.

3264
05:13:21,070 --> 05:13:25,670
Not only for the reasons I just mentioned, but because of the soil condition.

3265
05:13:26,750 --> 05:13:29,710
In order to grow healthy crops, farmers need healthy soil.

3266
05:13:29,710 --> 05:13:37,830
Ontario government ranks Halton, 25 out of 38 counties for soybean production free.

3267
05:13:38,670 --> 05:13:47,450
For winter wheat production, Halton ranks 33 out of 39, a full 43.8% lower yield than

3268
05:13:47,450 --> 05:13:48,490
say Oxford County.

3269
05:13:50,250 --> 05:13:55,650
Halton soil profile is one of heavy clay, not ideal for crops.

3270
05:13:55,650 --> 05:14:02,610
If our soil was anywhere near the quality, such as Oxford, Chatham, Cantor, Middle

3271
05:14:02,610 --> 05:14:05,830
Sex, wouldn't our numbers be alliding with their numbers?

3272
05:14:08,510 --> 05:14:15,800
Furthermore, fertile and healthy soil starts with manure which injects nutrients into the

3273
05:14:15,800 --> 05:14:16,100
soil.

3274
05:14:17,380 --> 05:14:23,560
To decrease the decrease in local livestock operations as resulted in a number,

3275
05:14:28,540 --> 05:14:29,580
the decrease in local

3276
05:14:29,580 --> 05:14:35,120
of livestock operations has resulted in an increased use and dependence on a wide range

3277
05:14:35,120 --> 05:14:38,420
of fertilizers, each having its own list of detriment.

3278
05:14:39,890 --> 05:14:46,540
At the end of the day, fertilizer usage increases phosphates and phosphates then off, run

3279
05:14:46,540 --> 05:14:51,580
off, and enter our waterways, and we all know what happens to the quality of our lakes when

3280
05:14:51,580 --> 05:14:53,440
volumes of phosphorus are introduced.

3281
05:14:54,780 --> 05:14:58,400
In addition, our efforts to remain a problem from the operation.

3282
05:15:01,230 --> 05:15:08,710
That lower return per acre is happening because of our soil. Yet, our ability to afford to

3283
05:15:08,710 --> 05:15:14,950
either rent or buy more land in the area to increase our acreage farm is unattainable.

3284
05:15:15,490 --> 05:15:18,910
The price of land in Hulden is unaffordable for farmers.

3285
05:15:21,640 --> 05:15:23,620
Hulden hails is no longer an agriculture

3286
05:15:23,620 --> 05:15:30,960
community like it was 50 years ago, or even 20 years ago. As urban areas increase, so does

3287
05:15:30,960 --> 05:15:36,180
the conflict between it and the rural landscape. Complaints regarding farm

3288
05:15:36,180 --> 05:15:41,180
smells, noise, dust, and machinery on the roads become all too common.

3289
05:15:43,030 --> 05:15:46,670
They're often used as public parks for green spaces, resulting in trespassing

3290
05:15:46,670 --> 05:15:54,050
and property damage. Likewise, they increased regulatory burden, whether from

3291
05:15:54,050 --> 05:15:59,730
ropa, regional dictums, conservation halten, or the town, only add to the

3292
05:15:59,730 --> 05:16:02,050
headwinds facing the family farms in Halton Hills.

3293
05:16:04,170 --> 05:16:06,670
That conservation halted oversees discrepancies

3294
05:16:06,670 --> 05:16:09,830
on rope of maps versus a farm knowledgeable

3295
05:16:09,830 --> 05:16:12,550
agricultural agency is an indication

3296
05:16:12,890 --> 05:16:16,230
where the priorities are for Halton region in Halton Hills.

3297
05:16:17,850 --> 05:16:21,350
In closing, it's clear farming in Halton

3298
05:16:21,350 --> 05:16:22,650
is becoming a thing of the past.

3299
05:16:23,250 --> 05:16:26,330
Certainly boutique farms attract tourists

3300
05:16:26,330 --> 05:16:28,770
and serve a purpose, but they aren't designed

3301
05:16:28,770 --> 05:16:36,050
to feed the larger population, which is what small family-owned farms did in years past.

3302
05:16:36,790 --> 05:16:42,530
What I'm asking today is that Council consider on flexibility for family farms when it comes to

3303
05:16:42,530 --> 05:16:52,150
how our land is used, times of change considerably, and farming in this area won't continue as it has in

3304
05:16:52,150 --> 05:16:59,210
years passed. Presently, individuals owning farmlands can either try to run a farming operation

3305
05:16:59,210 --> 05:17:04,790
while facing the challenges I have outlined to you today or hold their breath and hope their lands

3306
05:17:04,790 --> 05:17:12,010
will be permitted to be zoned differently, zoned with a purpose towards growth and foresightedness

3307
05:17:12,010 --> 05:17:18,590
but not limited to a bygone era of agricultural halted nails. Respectfully asked that our property

3308
05:17:18,590 --> 05:17:21,130
to consider as part of the urban expansion balance.

3309
05:17:22,030 --> 05:17:22,470
Thank you.

3310
05:17:24,660 --> 05:17:30,400
Thank you very much, Andrew, for your deputation.

3311
05:17:30,800 --> 05:17:32,620
Are there any questions of Andrew?

3312
05:17:33,480 --> 05:17:34,540
Members of Council?

3313
05:17:35,420 --> 05:17:36,300
Councilor Somerville.

3314
05:17:37,740 --> 05:17:39,680
I'm just wondering, Andrew, if you could repeat,

3315
05:17:40,360 --> 05:17:43,240
you had said about the soybeans and the,

3316
05:17:43,960 --> 05:17:45,580
and I think it was winter wheat.

3317
05:17:45,780 --> 05:17:47,540
And you talked about a couple of those statistics.

3318
05:17:48,080 --> 05:17:49,100
Can you just repeat them?

3319
05:17:49,100 --> 05:17:51,140
you, I didn't get them written down in time.

3320
05:17:51,560 --> 05:17:51,700
Sure.

3321
05:17:51,860 --> 05:17:52,360
Absolutely.

3322
05:17:52,540 --> 05:17:53,060
I could do that.

3323
05:17:53,720 --> 05:18:01,600
Based on 2019, Winter Reproduction by County, and this is from the Ontario government produces

3324
05:18:01,600 --> 05:18:09,320
these numbers, Halton produced 54, almost 55 bushels per acre.

3325
05:18:10,020 --> 05:18:16,020
While Oxford was, Oxford County was at 97.7 bushels per acre.

3326
05:18:16,020 --> 05:18:27,060
They rank number one, Halton ranks number 33, and that was a 43.8% less production for winter

3327
05:18:27,060 --> 05:18:28,260
wheat than Oxford County.

3328
05:18:30,900 --> 05:18:35,500
Thank you for that. Okay, would you like the number for the Soybean

3329
05:18:35,500 --> 05:18:43,720
number you mentioned? Soybean, yes. So, Halton ranks 25 out of

3330
05:18:47,240 --> 05:18:50,560
38 in terms of Soybean production

3331
05:18:50,560 --> 05:18:56,060
and that's a 35% less yield than Oxford County.

3332
05:18:59,530 --> 05:19:01,310
And I don't know if you can answer this or not,

3333
05:19:01,470 --> 05:19:05,770
but is Oxford County considered the best farmland in Ontario?

3334
05:19:06,730 --> 05:19:11,330
It's certainly near the top, but in terms of the distribution,

3335
05:19:11,670 --> 05:19:14,950
I'll say this, so just for comparison purposes,

3336
05:19:15,490 --> 05:19:22,910
Oxford County for soybean production produces about 54 bushels per acre

3337
05:19:22,910 --> 05:19:32,050
where say Elgin County, which is about five positions lower, produces 48 bush

3338
05:19:32,050 --> 05:19:37,490
with breaker. So it's within the neighborhood near the top, but compared to

3339
05:19:37,490 --> 05:19:37,930
Halton.

3340
05:19:41,210 --> 05:19:47,450
Thank you for that. You mentioned about the lack of manure. Yes. You and

3341
05:19:47,450 --> 05:19:51,710
your farm ever use bio solids or isn't something you ever considered or if you

3342
05:19:51,710 --> 05:19:56,430
ever had issues using it? Or do you just not because not everybody wants to use it?

3343
05:19:57,650 --> 05:20:05,090
Yeah, well, so you mean when you refer to biosolids, are you referring to human-based

3344
05:20:05,090 --> 05:20:08,290
biosolids? Yes, like what the region offers through the...

3345
05:20:08,290 --> 05:20:15,870
Right, so we are not comfortable introducing that into our farm, specifically from a water

3346
05:20:15,870 --> 05:20:23,090
table perspective. We have enough concerns right now with well-watering drinking water and

3347
05:20:23,790 --> 05:20:26,890
we do not really want to complicate the matter further.

3348
05:20:28,350 --> 05:20:33,730
Well, you picked up my next one automatically. He's must have known I was born there. Being in the

3349
05:20:33,730 --> 05:20:44,230
Hornby area, how has your water been? Well, you bring that up. Unfortunately, it's not great.

3350
05:20:46,730 --> 05:20:49,670
It's either we don't have enough water or we have too much water.

3351
05:20:50,190 --> 05:20:58,590
The region as part of the construction to put in the water mains, as you probably know,

3352
05:20:58,970 --> 05:21:05,950
hit the aquifer on Travolta road just above our farm and what that has done is has flooded

3353
05:21:05,950 --> 05:21:10,290
our fields and has made a section of them not productive.

3354
05:21:11,370 --> 05:21:14,170
And this is obviously a great concern for us.

3355
05:21:14,870 --> 05:21:19,150
and something we are still after a number of years now trying to have a result.

3356
05:21:21,440 --> 05:21:26,620
Well, if you had a hand on that to try to get that move forward, just give me a call or have counsel to us.

3357
05:21:27,280 --> 05:21:28,680
And him and I can connect on that.

3358
05:21:29,240 --> 05:21:29,740
Thank you, Andrew.

3359
05:21:32,480 --> 05:21:43,600
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Just very quickly, Andrew, if I could ask, what would be...

3360
05:21:43,600 --> 05:21:47,820
When I sit in my home here right now and I look out and I see soy beans across the road,

3361
05:21:47,820 --> 05:21:54,000
and I look to my right and I see a corn, all right. So that's an easy two part of my question,

3362
05:21:54,140 --> 05:22:00,000
two part answer to my question. What would be the halt with major crops that you'd be aware of

3363
05:22:00,000 --> 05:22:04,140
that are grown here for any significant purposes?

3364
05:22:06,390 --> 05:22:08,830
You mean for like local consumption or just

3365
05:22:08,830 --> 05:22:16,950
to get a drop or? We're in the consumption. In order to help a farmer make a living, he's growing X

3366
05:22:17,570 --> 05:22:21,090
And in order to get to those numbers that you're talking about, so many bushels per acre

3367
05:22:21,090 --> 05:22:28,110
and that kind of stuff, as I said before, I have soybean and corn close by me, and I'm

3368
05:22:28,110 --> 05:22:28,570
just curious.

3369
05:22:28,690 --> 05:22:35,950
If we talk to one farmer today, you talk to the significance of, hey, I would say the big

3370
05:22:36,510 --> 05:22:46,250
three from a cereal grain perspective would be corn, soybeans, and wheat, you know, some

3371
05:22:46,250 --> 05:22:53,570
some farmers have experimented with some more edible beans. Certainly, the hay operation,

3372
05:22:53,710 --> 05:23:04,990
there is a fair bit of hay operation in the area as well. But usually, if you're going for grains,

3373
05:23:05,310 --> 05:23:11,510
those three crops I mentioned usually make up part of a crop rotation for a healthy soil.

3374
05:23:12,330 --> 05:23:16,230
Okay, and then if I could, and I have no idea whether you do or you don't, do you have

3375
05:23:16,230 --> 05:23:21,110
tau drainage in your any one of your fields, and only to point this out to my colleagues

3376
05:23:21,110 --> 05:23:26,750
around the table here that this is an additional cost that makes your land more viable, and

3377
05:23:26,750 --> 05:23:31,990
this, the soil, or part of me, the tau drainage is in the field beside me, I could be mad

3378
05:23:31,990 --> 05:23:36,170
because it took away a skating pond that the kids had in the winter time, but I got over that.

3379
05:23:36,670 --> 05:23:41,070
And now it allows that farm to be out there so much sooner, but what it does, it brings

3380
05:23:41,070 --> 05:23:50,150
So we say we get class 1, 2, 3 soils, but sometimes we have to do, and I use biosols as one example or fertilizers as an example.

3381
05:23:50,330 --> 05:23:57,410
But sometimes the farmer has to spend a significant amount of money to towel drain a field in order to make it become a viable field.

3382
05:23:57,810 --> 05:24:03,850
I don't know whether you do or you don't, or you have any idea what it would cost to towel drain a farm field.

3383
05:24:06,700 --> 05:24:10,240
Excellent question. Yes, our farm is entirely tile drain.

3384
05:24:11,820 --> 05:24:19,500
We have, you know, and thankfully it is because that aquifer being pierced would have made

3385
05:24:19,500 --> 05:24:26,100
matter much worse, had it not been tile-drained able to take away some of the water from the field.

3386
05:24:27,640 --> 05:24:37,020
We recently just tile-drained a smaller part near the front of the farm as well,

3387
05:24:37,020 --> 05:24:46,760
And I can't give you a number off the top of my head, but it is a capital expense, and it is not cheap.

3388
05:24:47,860 --> 05:24:50,620
Okay, that's fine. I'll accept that. Thank you very kindly.

3389
05:24:51,400 --> 05:24:52,040
Thanks, Mr. Mayor.

3390
05:24:53,180 --> 05:25:00,560
Thank you, Councillor, I don't see any other speakers, so thank you, Andrew, for delegating this.

3391
05:25:01,160 --> 05:25:03,760
It's now tonight, so thank you, Andrew.

3392
05:25:03,760 --> 05:25:09,480
Thank you. I have a new respect for council after this marathon session, that's for sure.

3393
05:25:10,420 --> 05:25:16,760
We have a new respect for delegations that been on since 1 o'clock, too. Thank you very

3394
05:25:16,760 --> 05:25:24,060
much. Our next delegation is Frank Varga from Halton 9 grain farm limited.

3395
05:25:29,750 --> 05:25:30,110
Welcome.

3396
05:25:30,310 --> 05:25:37,010
Am I there? Can you hear me? Loud and clear. Thank you. I had good afternoon, but I guess

3397
05:25:37,010 --> 05:25:43,310
Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Mayor Bennett, also Hills counselors. And as you just said, the

3398
05:25:43,930 --> 05:25:49,690
the stamina fortitude and patience of counsel makes me happy. I am not a politician.

3399
05:25:50,270 --> 05:25:57,330
Happy to see a farmer. My name again, sprank barge on the cash proper in Milton for 34 years and

3400
05:25:57,330 --> 05:26:04,290
seven years in Halton Hills combined with own and rented land of about 500 acres. My farm in the

3401
05:26:04,290 --> 05:26:11,870
white belt growing soy beans, grain corn and winter wheat. Today, I speak for myself and

3402
05:26:11,870 --> 05:26:18,310
my neighbor, white well farmers, white belt farmers in southern Halton Hills and not

3403
05:26:18,310 --> 05:26:24,270
as a net HFA director nor as a hack alternate. We have different views.

3404
05:26:26,750 --> 05:26:28,830
I represent I think

3405
05:26:28,830 --> 05:26:36,770
I spoke to about 18 farmers in the area and we are the remaining farmers who have resisted

3406
05:26:36,770 --> 05:26:37,990
selling out to developers.

3407
05:26:39,170 --> 05:26:43,730
But we're getting older, as you can see, farming forever is not an option.

3408
05:26:43,950 --> 05:26:50,070
And retirement plans, financial affairs, estate planning have to be brought in order.

3409
05:26:50,710 --> 05:26:55,530
And this IGMS and Rope of 38 is playing havoc with values.

3410
05:26:55,530 --> 05:27:01,030
If we're white belt, not white belt, you know, prices double or get cut in half.

3411
05:27:01,850 --> 05:27:05,270
And they also have an effect on future farming plants.

3412
05:27:06,670 --> 05:27:12,410
So we ask for some kind of stability in this and protection of our equity in the lands.

3413
05:27:13,350 --> 05:27:17,870
Protecting the land is good, but protecting the farmer and his equity is even better.

3414
05:27:18,750 --> 05:27:20,370
You can't farm without farmers.

3415
05:27:20,370 --> 05:27:27,830
So we ask that the white belt status of our land be maintained, no green belt, no permanent

3416
05:27:27,830 --> 05:27:35,270
food belt, and we support the judicious expansion of urban boundaries to accommodate population

3417
05:27:35,270 --> 05:27:38,030
and drop-end job growth to 2051.

3418
05:27:39,030 --> 05:27:46,310
In other words, IgMS options 1, 2 or 4 and not options 3 and 4.

3419
05:27:46,310 --> 05:27:55,410
Now while farmland, while any loss of farmland is to be avoided, I found out I've studied this

3420
05:27:55,410 --> 05:28:01,730
for about six months that there is more than enough farmland for both farming and urban expansion.

3421
05:28:02,350 --> 05:28:09,490
I draw your attention to the latest statistics there are 20 years from 1996 to 2016.

3422
05:28:10,370 --> 05:28:14,610
And it's interesting what's happened. For instance, winter wheat,

3423
05:28:14,610 --> 05:28:23,330
we've had an increase of 203%. In other words, we can almost grow the same amount of crops

3424
05:28:23,330 --> 05:28:30,910
in half the land. The yield in bushels per acre has gone from 40 to 90, an increase

3425
05:28:30,910 --> 05:28:34,930
of 124%. Could I have the next slide, please?

3426
05:28:38,520 --> 05:28:42,560
And here, grain crop, this is the big three corn

3427
05:28:42,560 --> 05:28:50,780
is in there as well, and the corn crop yield increased 58.5%, that's the green one, and

3428
05:28:50,780 --> 05:28:57,920
the yield per acre 42.7. So think about it. We can produce the same number of crops.

3429
05:28:57,920 --> 05:29:04,000
It used to be, let's say, 110 bushels per acre, now we do 158. On the same amount of land,

3430
05:29:04,580 --> 05:29:05,400
next slide please.

3431
05:29:07,910 --> 05:29:12,990
And finally, soybeans. Soybean production has gone from 70,000 acres

3432
05:29:12,990 --> 05:29:20,610
to 124,000. That's a 77% increase in bushels per acre. Sorry, in bushels.

3433
05:29:21,170 --> 05:29:27,990
Bushels per acre, we started at 37, we're at 45. So again, the bushels per acre has increased.

3434
05:29:29,290 --> 05:29:32,770
And slide the next slide, please. There's only one left.

3435
05:29:36,450 --> 05:29:40,310
Nope, about that one. Statistics 2. There we go.

3436
05:29:40,310 --> 05:29:43,150
This rather summarizes what I've mentioned.

3437
05:29:43,590 --> 05:29:45,930
It may be a little complex, but it's quite simple.

3438
05:29:46,570 --> 05:29:50,950
For instance, in 2016, we had 2 million acres of corn.

3439
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:29,060
So, in other words, each year we've increased 2%. So, last year it took 100 acres, this year it takes 98 acres to get the same yield. So, corn extrapolated over the 2000, or sorry, 2 million acres is 42,700 acres extra. That is surplus to our needs to produce the same crop. And if we go down to soybeans and winter wheat,

3440
05:30:29,060 --> 05:30:37,880
We get a total of 135,000 acres per year that we would need less to grow the same amount

3441
05:30:37,880 --> 05:30:40,320
of crop to grow in the following year.

3442
05:30:40,820 --> 05:30:50,460
Over 20 years, that's 2,700 acres, like this is mind-boggling, next square, the harvested

3443
05:30:50,460 --> 05:30:50,800
acres.

3444
05:30:50,800 --> 05:30:53,420
Now, this is harvested or planted acres.

3445
05:30:53,880 --> 05:31:01,020
It corn has gone up 200,000 from 96 to 2016.

3446
05:31:01,240 --> 05:31:05,180
Soybean acreage has increased by 810,000 acres.

3447
05:31:05,500 --> 05:31:07,040
This is extra crops.

3448
05:31:07,400 --> 05:31:10,300
Same thing with winter wheat, 255,000.

3449
05:31:10,660 --> 05:31:15,620
So we have 1.265 million more acres physically planted.

3450
05:31:16,260 --> 05:31:19,160
This does not jive with everybody saying,

3451
05:31:19,160 --> 05:31:22,180
Oh no, we're running out of land, we're going to starve.

3452
05:31:22,740 --> 05:31:25,260
These are stats from Ontario province.

3453
05:31:25,980 --> 05:31:28,600
This is not made up.

3454
05:31:29,200 --> 05:31:30,140
These are the facts.

3455
05:31:30,620 --> 05:31:35,440
And if we look at the development industry, they use 5,000 acres per year.

3456
05:31:35,760 --> 05:31:40,880
This is based on nepotis, which is a think tank foundation that advises the province.

3457
05:31:41,600 --> 05:31:45,500
So the 20 years we've lost to them, 102,000 acres.

3458
05:31:45,500 --> 05:32:02,820
But we've gained 2.7 plus 1.2, we've gained 4 million acres, so if we've gained 4 million of acres and we lost 100,000, we're way ahead as far as productivity goes and crop production.

3459
05:32:04,580 --> 05:32:10,840
Now, what to do? I don't know, we've got like 400,000, sorry, 4 million extra acres.

3460
05:32:12,500 --> 05:32:18,280
Now, we grow more, we export more, we're a trading nation, that's great.

3461
05:32:19,620 --> 05:32:28,960
Now, the other problem we have here is that apparently 33% of our crop goes into gasoline.

3462
05:32:30,460 --> 05:32:38,540
But Ottawa just announced by 2035, hey, everything will be gas. All cars will be gas.

3463
05:32:38,540 --> 05:32:47,780
So there's 33% less corn, that translates into 660,000 acres that will not be required

3464
05:32:47,780 --> 05:32:49,620
to grow corn in the future.

3465
05:32:50,620 --> 05:32:54,000
So basically there's a huge surplus of farmland.

3466
05:32:54,820 --> 05:32:56,060
What can we do with it?

3467
05:32:57,300 --> 05:33:03,080
Well, growing corn is nice but when you capture carbon with corn the next year or two it just

3468
05:33:03,080 --> 05:33:04,260
goes back into the air.

3469
05:33:04,260 --> 05:33:08,980
It decomposes animals eat food, comes out as gas, no gain.

3470
05:33:09,680 --> 05:33:16,100
What we may have to do is actually just grow forests, hardwood, maple, oak, almond, hardwood

3471
05:33:16,100 --> 05:33:16,480
forest.

3472
05:33:17,440 --> 05:33:24,800
But there's a danger here for the farmers, and that basically comes down to Brazil.

3473
05:33:25,320 --> 05:33:30,600
Brazil's production, let's say, of soybeans, is 36 million hectares.

3474
05:33:30,600 --> 05:33:37,340
it's going to go to 52 million. That's 16 million more hectares just in the next 10 years.

3475
05:33:37,820 --> 05:33:46,080
Ontario production is 1.2. So it becomes interesting because the deforestation in Brazil to grow

3476
05:33:46,080 --> 05:33:53,160
more crops gives us land here that can't be cropped for corn. So maybe we should grow the forest.

3477
05:33:53,540 --> 05:33:58,580
You know we maybe we can be the lungs of the earth. But the main point I'm saying over here is that

3478
05:33:58,580 --> 05:34:04,860
we do have a lot of farmland and we have to think of how it goes not only that but people generally

3479
05:34:04,860 --> 05:34:12,580
are eating more vegetable protein, not beef. Beef and dairy is in steep decline and that's

3480
05:34:12,580 --> 05:34:17,620
where actually a lot of this extra land is converted. The pasture goes into cropland.

3481
05:34:20,840 --> 05:34:24,680
Additionally, when you look at Brazil and their cost of production,

3482
05:34:26,080 --> 05:34:32,300
I'm afraid we can't compete, and it's our farmers that have to decide what to do.

3483
05:34:32,480 --> 05:34:38,280
They need direction, how to survive, because you may recall 23 years ago, we were a great

3484
05:34:38,280 --> 05:34:43,940
manufacturing country, but we lost our manufacturing to foreign countries, either through subsidies

3485
05:34:43,940 --> 05:34:46,380
or whatever lower labor costs.

3486
05:34:46,940 --> 05:34:52,340
We run the danger, maybe, of losing farming as well, because in the US, the government subsidizes

3487
05:34:52,340 --> 05:34:55,860
is 25% at least of every farm production.

3488
05:34:56,640 --> 05:34:59,700
Brazil has top soil, 50 feet deep.

3489
05:35:00,060 --> 05:35:01,580
We're lucky if we have five inches.

3490
05:35:02,220 --> 05:35:05,880
In Brazil, they could now, because of genetic advances,

3491
05:35:06,360 --> 05:35:10,760
grow two crops of soybean, like that's humongous.

3492
05:35:11,280 --> 05:35:14,020
So I'm basically saying that food production can

3493
05:35:14,020 --> 05:35:16,800
far strip population increase.

3494
05:35:16,940 --> 05:35:20,380
Not only that, but genetics and precision farming,

3495
05:35:20,380 --> 05:35:28,280
There's so many technologies coming in to advance farming that we should take advantage of and take into account.

3496
05:35:29,340 --> 05:35:36,620
Now, another final point I'm going to make is when we look at farm finance, let's say we have a thousand acres,

3497
05:35:36,980 --> 05:35:44,420
vision Georgetown, or you take a thousand acres just south between Trafalgar Road and Confline.

3498
05:35:45,040 --> 05:35:48,100
That land virtually is all cash cropped.

3499
05:35:49,300 --> 05:35:55,740
Now this is beautiful. This is so simple. So we have a thousand acres and it takes one

3500
05:35:55,740 --> 05:36:01,720
farmer. It provides employment for one farmer with one large machine. He can work that

3501
05:36:01,720 --> 05:36:08,160
whole thing in about four months. No problem. Frank now. Frank, you've gone double your

3502
05:36:08,160 --> 05:36:13,760
limit and I bet you're lenient. Okay, anyway, makes up. We only get a million dollars in income

3503
05:36:13,760 --> 05:36:17,820
and only a hundred thousand in tax on a good year. Some year there are losses. Thank you

3504
05:36:17,820 --> 05:36:26,080
for your time. Thank you. I don't know for you. I'm not used to delegating. Thank you

3505
05:36:26,080 --> 05:36:30,060
very much. Are there any questions of Frank?

3506
05:36:32,860 --> 05:36:35,540
No, there isn't. So I think you made your

3507
05:36:35,540 --> 05:36:39,940
points. Oh, Councillor Somerville, did you just raise your hand? No, I was saying thank

3508
05:36:39,940 --> 05:36:47,740
you, Frank. Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Our last delegation is Robert McClure,

3509
05:37:09,690 --> 05:37:15,310
I am Robert McClure, whose family has farmed for 192 years in both Halton and Peele.

3510
05:37:15,810 --> 05:37:18,510
I farm with my wife Susan and our son Ryan.

3511
05:37:19,170 --> 05:37:23,630
We own two farms in Halton Hills, my wife and I are living on one and our son and

3512
05:37:23,630 --> 05:37:24,710
his family on the other.

3513
05:37:25,710 --> 05:37:30,490
We grow cash drops on our own and rented land, all in Halton Hills.

3514
05:37:31,470 --> 05:37:37,350
Our farms are not within the integrated growth management study area but in close proximity.

3515
05:37:39,310 --> 05:37:46,530
Our following comments are from our grassroots perspective and we are confident that the farmer

3516
05:37:46,530 --> 05:37:49,530
former stakeholders that are in the study area will relate.

3517
05:37:50,790 --> 05:37:55,390
Farmian health hills has become an increasingly challenging and dangerous because of narrow

3518
05:37:55,390 --> 05:37:58,610
roadways being shared with commuter traffic.

3519
05:37:59,610 --> 05:38:05,110
Sightlines that many intersections are poor and make it difficult for some moving farm

3520
05:38:05,110 --> 05:38:07,170
vehicles to enter traffic safely.

3521
05:38:08,290 --> 05:38:11,390
Real infrastructure in many areas is lacking.

3522
05:38:11,390 --> 05:38:17,690
For example, reliable, affordable internet, natural gas for heating and crop drying,

3523
05:38:18,270 --> 05:38:23,890
farm equipment dealers for sales and service, feed and seed suppliers and grain elevators.

3524
05:38:25,290 --> 05:38:30,990
Farmland taxes continue to increase which make it difficult for retired farmers who are

3525
05:38:30,990 --> 05:38:36,270
still living on their farms to rent their land to tenant farmers that are priced that covers

3526
05:38:36,270 --> 05:38:37,850
the expense of those taxes.

3527
05:38:38,590 --> 05:38:44,390
Most tenant farmers are growing cash crops and these rental rates are limited compared

3528
05:38:44,390 --> 05:38:50,290
to areas of Ontario with high livestock concentrations which require a guaranteed land

3529
05:38:50,290 --> 05:38:52,590
base for nutrient management and feed.

3530
05:38:53,370 --> 05:38:59,010
There are also many areas of Ontario with much higher yielding soils for cash crops and

3531
05:38:59,010 --> 05:39:05,110
both of these situations demand much higher rental income for the retired landlord farmers.

3532
05:39:06,670 --> 05:39:12,250
Farmers don't have the option of selling their farmland separately from their home to

3533
05:39:12,250 --> 05:39:17,750
retain as a retirement residence in Halton because severance isn't allowed as an option

3534
05:39:17,750 --> 05:39:19,210
for retiring farmers.

3535
05:39:20,070 --> 05:39:25,870
Selling the farm upon retirement is quite often the only retirement equity option available,

3536
05:39:26,820 --> 05:39:30,970
following their lifetime of dedication to farming and feeding the urban population.

3537
05:39:30,970 --> 05:39:36,030
It is a reality that farmers are not buying farmland in Halton Hills.

3538
05:39:36,590 --> 05:39:41,990
The last several years, as determined as determined in a study published by Professor

3539
05:39:41,990 --> 05:39:48,610
Brady Deepon Jr., head of agriculture at the University of Guelph in cooperation with

3540
05:39:48,610 --> 05:39:53,630
the Ontario Federation of Agriculture and with funding from the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture

3541
05:39:53,630 --> 05:39:56,050
and Food in rural affairs.

3542
05:39:56,890 --> 05:40:04,350
In comparison, 90% of Oxford County farm purchases were by farmers, 95% of Perth County

3543
05:40:04,350 --> 05:40:09,410
farm purchases were by farmers, and 90% of Wellington County farm purchases were by

3544
05:40:09,410 --> 05:40:09,790
farmers.

3545
05:40:11,050 --> 05:40:16,210
The next generation of prospective farmers have limited opportunity to build successful,

3546
05:40:17,170 --> 05:40:22,670
sustainable farming operations in home region, and therefore are moving to areas like mentioned

3547
05:40:22,670 --> 05:40:23,030
above.

3548
05:40:23,030 --> 05:40:29,110
of the benefit of this for food production is economy of scale with the farming infrastructure

3549
05:40:29,110 --> 05:40:38,590
already in place to support sustainability. We support concept two as long as the tenure

3550
05:40:38,590 --> 05:40:45,590
review is guaranteed to reevaluate growth requirements in the urban shuttle. Speaking

3551
05:40:45,590 --> 05:40:49,530
into a dairy farmer, one of actually four remaining

3552
05:40:49,530 --> 05:40:51,390
and Halton Hills this morning.

3553
05:40:52,290 --> 05:40:57,190
He has a 22-year-old son, and he's interested in farming,

3554
05:40:57,450 --> 05:40:58,150
dairy farming.

3555
05:40:59,090 --> 05:41:06,730
And he now has 100 acres of farmland, which is close

3556
05:41:06,730 --> 05:41:08,490
to the peal border.

3557
05:41:09,230 --> 05:41:14,970
But now he is dealing with the 400 series

3558
05:41:14,970 --> 05:41:21,890
we're going halfway through his firm. So he is really in a fix, but I guess it kind of

3559
05:41:21,890 --> 05:41:28,670
reflects on what the situation is in Halton. Young farmers want to farm, but they can't

3560
05:41:28,670 --> 05:41:35,510
in Halton because of inability to buy reasonably priced farm land, and that's not the, you know,

3561
05:41:35,630 --> 05:41:41,550
their long-time farmers too, and that's not the fault of them. That's just that's urban like

3562
05:41:41,550 --> 05:41:49,330
urban shadow living in the urban shadow and it's it's unfortunate but they do have to move

3563
05:41:49,330 --> 05:41:54,710
somewhere else if they want to be sustainable just like I've said they're all moving to areas

3564
05:41:54,710 --> 05:41:59,670
that have the infrastructure it's not it's not going to come back I know Nancy mentioned that

3565
05:42:00,590 --> 05:42:06,050
you know you could have an ever ever tour come back into you know commercial

3566
05:42:06,050 --> 05:42:09,170
a little employment land, but that's not a given.

3567
05:42:09,890 --> 05:42:12,110
You won't have farm machinery others come back,

3568
05:42:12,110 --> 05:42:12,930
like Peter said.

3569
05:42:13,990 --> 05:42:15,450
This farmer talked to you this morning,

3570
05:42:15,450 --> 05:42:17,650
he sent his farm up to Amartara

3571
05:42:17,650 --> 05:42:19,310
to buy parts for his realm there

3572
05:42:19,310 --> 05:42:22,510
that he was fixing in order to get it fixed

3573
05:42:22,510 --> 05:42:24,150
so he could bail hay between the rain.

3574
05:42:24,870 --> 05:42:27,190
So it's a reality of farming in Halton.

3575
05:42:28,570 --> 05:42:31,790
I celebrate 50 years of farming myself this year,

3576
05:42:32,110 --> 05:42:34,550
and I hope to continue,

3577
05:42:34,550 --> 05:42:41,750
but I'm also 70 years old, and the average age of farmers in Halton is 58, so people want

3578
05:42:41,750 --> 05:42:49,250
to protect farmland, but farmers have to be protected and look at the possibility of their

3579
05:42:49,250 --> 05:42:54,710
options. They're not like anyone in town that can sell their house when they want to retire or

3580
05:42:55,350 --> 05:43:01,010
move into long-term care, so you do need options. Don't shut the door on

3581
05:43:02,230 --> 05:43:08,690
expansion because it doesn't make sense to us and there's a lot of things you can't

3582
05:43:08,690 --> 05:43:14,470
do if you don't have any urban expansion at all like schools and green space and hospital

3583
05:43:14,470 --> 05:43:19,410
and long-term care retirement residents. We've got to think of that. We're all getting

3584
05:43:19,410 --> 05:43:26,190
older so thank you for your time and appreciate everybody's I guess maybe on the last one

3585
05:43:26,190 --> 05:43:29,030
I'm not sure. Thank you, Mayor Bennett.

3586
05:43:29,430 --> 05:43:35,890
Yeah, thank you, Robert, and thank you for your 50 years of farming in the area on behalf of all of us.

3587
05:43:36,690 --> 05:43:38,970
Councillor Somerville, do you have a question?

3588
05:43:40,610 --> 05:43:43,410
Well, I just wanted to follow up on something that you were saying, Robert.

3589
05:43:44,510 --> 05:43:46,030
I'm hoping you can hear me okay.

3590
05:43:46,630 --> 05:43:46,770
Yes.

3591
05:43:47,330 --> 05:43:49,250
It's with the farms as they're sold.

3592
05:43:50,350 --> 05:43:55,270
And is this something that I've had a data totally said to me is that

3593
05:43:55,270 --> 05:43:59,530
They're finding them becoming a state farms where people are buying them

3594
05:44:00,050 --> 05:44:03,510
Instead of being in the city buying a farmland and then

3595
05:44:04,750 --> 05:44:07,930
They're not using it as much. They rent out part of it to get

3596
05:44:08,370 --> 05:44:13,530
Some tax advantages in that as well, but not using it. Is that something you have seen as well up in

3597
05:44:14,070 --> 05:44:16,330
Your neck of the woods are down in your neck of the woods

3598
05:44:17,410 --> 05:44:20,150
Well, I think it will be a reality in the future a

3599
05:44:20,150 --> 05:44:26,630
A farmer does have to retire at some point in time, and if that's his only option, it will

3600
05:44:26,630 --> 05:44:32,370
be, but that farm will not be growing vegetables to feed the local population.

3601
05:44:33,050 --> 05:44:39,970
I have a neighbor that grows vegetables, and he says that because of the type of vegetables

3602
05:44:39,970 --> 05:44:45,950
he grows, he can only grow them on that ground for three years because it develops a disease

3603
05:44:46,370 --> 05:44:48,050
and it has to remove to somewhere else.

3604
05:44:48,050 --> 05:44:54,790
So it's not growing vegetables on farms isn't long term so that's why we as cash

3605
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:09,420
roll. Vegetables forever. It's not the case. So, in the future, I can see, you know, as

3606
05:45:09,420 --> 05:45:15,060
farmers retire and they do need to sell, and there's no next generation to carry on, it

3607
05:45:15,060 --> 05:45:21,800
will be people with, you know, multi-million dollar homes buying a hundred acre farm and

3608
05:45:22,560 --> 05:45:29,180
building a house on the mill of it. That's not feeding the population. I guess another question

3609
05:45:29,180 --> 05:45:34,760
I would have for you is that both Councilor Lewis and I heard of a little bit of disconnect

3610
05:45:34,760 --> 05:45:41,740
between what was felt as the white belt farmers and with the federation, but they also

3611
05:45:41,740 --> 05:45:48,300
with the green belt, farmers who are within the green belt, and I can ask you this since I know

3612
05:45:48,300 --> 05:45:53,340
your farms travels both. Is that something that you have seen that there's almost a different

3613
05:45:53,340 --> 05:46:00,080
understanding of farming in the white belt area, potential growth areas versus

3614
05:46:00,080 --> 05:46:06,060
what those in the green belt area are actually seeing. Well I do own a farm in

3615
05:46:06,060 --> 05:46:12,840
the green belt. That's my home base and I was green belted after purchasing this

3616
05:46:12,840 --> 05:46:17,900
farm actually. And one of my farms is in the white belt, like I said not in the

3617
05:46:17,900 --> 05:46:24,500
growth management study area. But I haven't benefited one cent from being green

3618
05:46:24,500 --> 05:46:31,400
belted. I've far in the same way. I continue to even after 50 years. I still am

3619
05:46:31,400 --> 05:46:38,360
learning. I am trying to do my best to preserve the environment. I have

3620
05:46:38,360 --> 05:46:45,680
environmental farm plan. And I do everything that I'm not growing the cover crops. I

3621
05:46:45,680 --> 05:46:47,440
I do no tilling.

3622
05:46:48,560 --> 05:46:57,860
I progress with society, but I haven't gained one cent from sequestering carbon.

3623
05:46:58,120 --> 05:46:59,940
I have natural heritage on my property.

3624
05:47:01,200 --> 05:47:02,660
I don't get paid anything for that.

3625
05:47:03,220 --> 05:47:05,520
I maintain it.

3626
05:47:06,160 --> 05:47:14,340
I think society has to start not just protecting farmland, and I said this at the time of

3627
05:47:14,340 --> 05:47:14,760
Greenbelt.

3628
05:47:14,760 --> 05:47:21,420
they have to protect the farmer. Protecting the farmland doesn't do anything for society. It's

3629
05:47:21,420 --> 05:47:29,400
the farmer that has to be protected. And that's the next generation doesn't have options and incentives

3630
05:47:29,400 --> 05:47:41,000
like environmental services payments for what we are doing for the last 192 years. What is the

3631
05:47:41,000 --> 05:47:45,420
point of continuing farming. It will become you state lots, 100 acres of state lots,

3632
05:47:46,180 --> 05:47:51,900
so much for intensification. Thank you for that Robert. Those are the

3633
05:47:51,900 --> 05:47:57,400
end of my questions, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. We have one more, Councillor Lewis?

3634
05:47:58,380 --> 05:48:03,460
Yeah, sorry to add to this, I'm trying to get us to the 11 o'clock finish, but thank you

3635
05:48:03,460 --> 05:48:09,680
very much for hanging in for the day and offering some, what I would consider, be some very

3636
05:48:09,680 --> 05:48:14,780
important advice to his relative to what it is you're in. I live in the country and I live on a

3637
05:48:14,780 --> 05:48:19,980
severed lot. That was done. I have no idea how many years ago. I've been here almost 50 years.

3638
05:48:20,160 --> 05:48:26,480
So let's assume that 50 years ago, Farmer X was able to sever off lots in order to help him survive.

3639
05:48:27,400 --> 05:48:33,540
And when I sat in shadow with this farmer one day who has since retired and also at the time in

3640
05:48:33,540 --> 05:48:38,420
era of having a lot that was severed and I said and I talked to him to get the

3641
05:48:38,420 --> 05:48:42,300
history lesson on all of the lands around us and and quite frankly it's

3642
05:48:42,300 --> 05:48:46,560
amazing to hear what has gone on what should go on and whatever it and the

3643
05:48:46,560 --> 05:48:53,080
minds of a very experienced farmer would we should we as a community be taking

3644
05:48:53,080 --> 05:48:58,220
look at that they took away the opportunity for you the farmer to several lots

3645
05:48:58,220 --> 05:49:01,500
you could sit and retire at the corner of your lot at the corner of your

3646
05:49:01,500 --> 05:49:06,120
hundred acres and remain on the property that you work for the family for

3647
05:49:06,120 --> 05:49:11,160
hundred ninety two years and I'm looking at it maybe we as a community should

3648
05:49:11,160 --> 05:49:17,260
take a long hard look at the value the honor and recognition and I'm fully

3649
05:49:17,260 --> 05:49:20,360
aware why they took it away because farmers were severing lots and doing

3650
05:49:20,360 --> 05:49:25,420
nothing but to sell them but that was part of their lifeline and I'm looking at it

3651
05:49:25,420 --> 05:49:28,980
here now to be able to say is perhaps our community should look at the

3652
05:49:28,980 --> 05:49:35,160
opportunity for a legitimate farmer to sever a lot and live happily ever after on the

3653
05:49:35,160 --> 05:49:37,600
farm that he's worked for so many years to slash generation.

3654
05:49:38,120 --> 05:49:41,360
So is that something you would advocate and think that we should be looking?

3655
05:49:43,890 --> 05:49:52,410
Well, I guess there is that's kind of a double edged sword because the reason that I think

3656
05:49:52,410 --> 05:50:00,330
that was stopped essentially was because there was starting to be conflicting issues between

3657
05:50:00,330 --> 05:50:05,610
farmers and homeowners because originally maybe the the house was lived in by the farmer. He

3658
05:50:05,610 --> 05:50:11,570
didn't care about noise and dust and all that, late hours. But when it was then moved to the next

3659
05:50:12,590 --> 05:50:19,070
purchaser, then all the complaints started. And that's why you do have the, you know,

3660
05:50:19,650 --> 05:50:24,290
setbacks for new farm buildings and all that so they're back farther from residential properties. But

3661
05:50:24,290 --> 05:50:31,290
But I guess my part about severing, like the home residents of the farm, the farm residents

3662
05:50:31,290 --> 05:50:33,570
off is, we can't do that.

3663
05:50:34,390 --> 05:50:40,550
And yet, if I was in Peterborough County where my sister and brother-in-law farm, they

3664
05:50:40,550 --> 05:50:45,870
will buy a hundred acre farm, and I know we can do it in Halton Hills, but people aren't

3665
05:50:45,870 --> 05:50:53,110
doing it because it isn't farmers that are buying, but they can then sever off excess farm

3666
05:50:53,110 --> 05:50:57,570
buildings which actually pay for the farm they bought and then they go and buy another

3667
05:50:57,570 --> 05:51:04,050
farm so they're able to buy 2 or 300 acre farms they don't need the access farm buildings

3668
05:51:04,750 --> 05:51:12,810
and that actually expands their farm operation to be sustainable. For now three family

3669
05:51:12,810 --> 05:51:20,390
members joining my sister and brother in the farming operation. So it's the reality here

3670
05:51:20,390 --> 05:51:27,090
we can't do that and it's just another stumbling block really is what it is. I

3671
05:51:27,090 --> 05:51:30,410
mean we can do it but nobody's going to do it I guess is what I'm saying

3672
05:51:30,410 --> 05:51:36,650
because you can't it isn't realistic farm value like other people I said I

3673
05:51:36,650 --> 05:51:42,550
think Andrew said that as well. Hey I thank you for that and one thing I'm I'm I'll

3674
05:51:42,550 --> 05:51:46,070
be say very surprised whenever you made reference factors for dairy farms and

3675
05:51:46,070 --> 05:51:51,590
All nails. I didn't think it was any other is for okay. Good to hear.

3676
05:51:53,910 --> 05:51:55,770
Thank you. Thank you.

3677
05:51:56,910 --> 05:52:05,870
Thank you very much. Robert for your delegation. I have no further questions. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to call.

3678
05:52:06,090 --> 05:52:13,150
We're going to be debating this shortly. I'm going to call a 10 minute break because we might be here for a while and stretch your legs.

3679
05:52:13,150 --> 05:52:15,190
So, see everybody in 10 minutes.

3680
06:04:42,290 --> 06:04:50,310
We'll commence this meeting. And before I get started, I wanted to pull the council's roll

3681
06:04:50,310 --> 06:04:55,550
on, their own, their videos. I just want to offer regrets from Councilor Wendy Ferro

3682
06:04:55,550 --> 06:05:00,390
Reed and Councilor Ted Brown. I forgot to say that.

3683
06:05:04,080 --> 06:05:07,020
So, Councilor Fogel, I think you

3684
06:05:07,020 --> 06:05:10,300
You had your hand up earlier to do want to.

3685
06:05:12,370 --> 06:05:14,110
Yes, thank you.

3686
06:05:15,730 --> 06:05:17,150
Thanks for recognizing it.

3687
06:05:17,750 --> 06:05:21,990
So it's been a very interesting meeting.

3688
06:05:23,250 --> 06:05:27,370
I really appreciate all of the delegations.

3689
06:05:28,130 --> 06:05:32,970
It certainly show us how complicated the situation is

3690
06:05:32,970 --> 06:05:37,670
that we are in because we have so many competing priorities.

3691
06:05:40,450 --> 06:05:45,710
I would just like to ask a question before I have amendment to put on the floor but there's

3692
06:05:45,710 --> 06:05:54,450
an important question I have for planning staff first and I would like to on page 16 of

3693
06:05:54,450 --> 06:06:03,950
the staff report where we have the details of the hectares of employment land that we have

3694
06:06:06,590 --> 06:06:18,150
approved for urban uses. It's a little unclear as to how much land we have left that it's

3695
06:06:18,150 --> 06:06:25,790
not service necessarily. Some of it is service, but what's the total of all those hectares?

3696
06:06:26,090 --> 06:06:30,910
Because when I added up, it doesn't seem to come to the same thing that the reports talk about.

3697
06:06:30,910 --> 06:06:31,910
So,

3698
06:06:39,250 --> 06:06:50,010
through you, Mr. Mayor, I will start and if I need some assistance from either Ms. Parker or Paul Lowe's, then we will proceed in that direction.

3699
06:06:50,910 --> 06:07:01,330
The data on page 16, I believe, is intended to reflect the gross hectares of the Houghton Hills Premier Gateway.

3700
06:07:01,330 --> 06:07:06,950
It doesn't draw any distinction between that, which is vacant and that which is occupied.

3701
06:07:07,710 --> 06:07:18,490
The actual vacant supply, we have estimated in the past, is about 376 net hectares or

3702
06:07:18,490 --> 06:07:20,510
about 929 acres.

3703
06:07:21,350 --> 06:07:29,090
So that's sort of the residual supply, which coincidentally is not very different from the

3704
06:07:29,090 --> 06:07:35,530
the increment that was added through sustainable halton for the 2021-2031 period, so we sort

3705
06:07:35,530 --> 06:07:41,950
of haven't, if you will, absorb that new land yet, and given that we're sort of at the

3706
06:07:41,950 --> 06:07:46,190
beginning of the planning horizon and then with all the other challenges with GTA West,

3707
06:07:46,910 --> 06:07:47,850
that's not surprising.

3708
06:07:47,970 --> 06:07:50,850
We're just in the early days of that particular increment.

3709
06:07:51,070 --> 06:07:52,610
So hopefully that helps.

3710
06:07:52,610 --> 06:08:09,410
So, again, the data on page 16 was intended to reflect an overall estimate of the size of the gateway, and then the vacant remaining lands our estimate is, again, 376 net hectares or 929 acres.

3711
06:08:12,100 --> 06:08:18,940
This is where it gets complicated when we talk about net hectares versus land.

3712
06:08:23,040 --> 06:08:29,880
So when we're talking about what we're bringing into the urban area, we would be talking

3713
06:08:29,880 --> 06:08:35,680
gross hectares, and when we're talking about employment land later, we talk net hectares.

3714
06:08:35,980 --> 06:08:36,560
Is that correct?

3715
06:08:37,480 --> 06:08:39,080
It's through the Mayor to the Councilor.

3716
06:08:39,220 --> 06:08:39,840
That's correct.

3717
06:08:40,160 --> 06:08:46,760
So what would happen is if any additional urban lands were added in, there's a gross

3718
06:08:46,760 --> 06:08:52,960
number and usually the ratio of net to gross is 80 percent for employment land

3719
06:08:52,960 --> 06:09:00,580
purposes. So taking into account, sorry, the gross number will be higher than

3720
06:09:00,580 --> 06:09:07,180
net supply will be 80 percent of the gross number. So I know in our report there's

3721
06:09:07,180 --> 06:09:13,300
a reference to 445 gross hectares, which is what was estimated by Watson and

3722
06:09:13,300 --> 06:09:20,440
associates. So that would be, you basically multiply that by 80% to get your net supply.

3723
06:09:20,720 --> 06:09:25,580
And again, that's taking into account the need for the road network and storm water management

3724
06:09:25,580 --> 06:09:27,800
and things of that nature. So hopefully that helps.

3725
06:09:30,600 --> 06:09:32,880
It does help, but it's a little late in the game

3726
06:09:32,880 --> 06:09:41,540
for me to try and figure stuff out. Because also one of the delegations talked about,

3727
06:09:46,200 --> 06:09:53,360
We asked him about 2,000 acres and 1,000 acres and he said that he had worked it all out

3728
06:09:53,360 --> 06:10:01,800
and worked it backwards and he was, it sounded like he was switching from gross acreage

3729
06:10:01,800 --> 06:10:07,460
to net acreage and I didn't think we were doing that at all on when we were looking at

3730
06:10:07,460 --> 06:10:09,340
the community land that we were bringing in.

3731
06:10:10,720 --> 06:10:13,720
Well, I'm totally confused by his comment.

3732
06:10:15,650 --> 06:10:24,660
So through the mayor to the counselor, the amount of land that was shown, I guess,

3733
06:10:24,960 --> 06:10:30,840
in the various concepts, our understanding is its gross hectorage for community land

3734
06:10:30,840 --> 06:10:35,220
as well, net of the natural heritage system lands.

3735
06:10:35,860 --> 06:10:42,180
So, he was probably referring to the fact that he represents, say, 2,000 acres of land

3736
06:10:42,180 --> 06:10:45,320
and two concession blocks, which would include the NHS.

3737
06:10:46,260 --> 06:10:51,580
And presumably he's done some math to arrive at a particular number.

3738
06:10:51,640 --> 06:11:00,530
And I thought he said 600 hectares is what I thought I heard him say once unit.

3739
06:11:01,110 --> 06:11:05,750
Okay, I didn't realize that we were, we netted out the natural heritage system as well.

3740
06:11:05,750 --> 06:11:18,810
Yes, we do just and just for purposes of clarification the region treats the NHS as a very separate and distinct land use designation, whether it's surrounded by urban lands or surrounded by rural and so.

3741
06:11:20,530 --> 06:11:23,070
That's how we look at it moving forward as well.

3742
06:11:23,810 --> 06:11:27,030
Looking at my notes, he did say 600 hectares.

3743
06:11:29,110 --> 06:11:38,770
All right. That's interesting that he's happy. So that's good. Okay. Well, I, over the

3744
06:11:38,770 --> 06:11:45,690
last few days, I've been talking to counselors and other counselors have been talking to

3745
06:11:45,690 --> 06:11:54,650
other counselors, trying to figure out where we go on this. And I think it's pretty, pretty

3746
06:11:54,650 --> 06:12:04,350
clear to everybody that I'm a 3B kind of person and the staff report doesn't say 3B, it

3747
06:12:04,350 --> 06:12:04,870
says 2.

3748
06:12:06,250 --> 06:12:19,370
So I've learned that we do have a split council on this issue, kind of split not exactly

3749
06:12:19,370 --> 06:12:30,310
even but close. So that is never a really good spot to be in for a council. So over

3750
06:12:30,310 --> 06:12:38,430
the past day then started to think about how I could personally compromise on this to

3751
06:12:38,430 --> 06:12:42,870
try and get some place that I could agree on.

3752
06:12:44,770 --> 06:12:53,090
And so, after much discussion today, in particular, I have an amendment to put on the floor for discussion purposes.

3753
06:12:54,690 --> 06:12:59,750
And this amendment is moved by me and it's seconded by Councillor Lawler.

3754
06:13:00,950 --> 06:13:06,270
And of course, it's been circulated to all of you as well and to the clerk.

3755
06:13:06,270 --> 06:13:17,050
So the amendment is that the recommendations be amended to alter paragraph three by changing concept two to concept three B.

3756
06:13:17,450 --> 06:13:20,330
That paragraph four and five be removed.

3757
06:13:21,010 --> 06:13:30,870
That paragraph six be amended to change 400 hectares to 200 hectares, which is 500 acres and delete paragraph nine.

3758
06:13:32,340 --> 06:13:41,240
So, this, in effect, could call it option 3C, if you like.

3759
06:13:42,440 --> 06:13:53,640
It looks at adding in land for the hospital for park land for community use in the realm

3760
06:13:53,640 --> 06:13:58,060
of 500 acres or half of vision Georgetown.

3761
06:13:58,060 --> 06:14:02,820
It removes the acreage for employment uses.

3762
06:14:05,780 --> 06:14:13,240
Now, I may have had some misunderstanding about what some of those figures were from that chart.

3763
06:14:13,540 --> 06:14:24,400
It looked to me as though we had 700 hectares of land available from that chart, but that's gross.

3764
06:14:24,400 --> 06:14:38,540
It's still, you can envision it though as 2,000 acres or two vision Georgetown's, which strikes me still as being a lot of employment land going forward.

3765
06:14:42,700 --> 06:14:47,420
So those are the main, main points for me.

3766
06:14:47,420 --> 06:14:54,920
And why would I do this? Why do it? Well, it goes back to what's a large number of our

3767
06:15:00,000 --> 06:15:25,760
They are concerned about climate change. And as you know, the temperature in the litin' BC was 47 degrees. It was a tinderbox. The spark and the town was gone. The extreme heat wave was not a surprise. We could see it coming. And we can certainly see more coming. Last week, over 700 BC residents died due to the heat wave.

3768
06:15:28,830 --> 06:15:31,930
There's no reporting in Canada, but Siberia is registering

3769
06:15:31,930 --> 06:15:35,770
48 degrees near the Arctic Circle this past week as well.

3770
06:15:37,740 --> 06:15:43,900
The last seven years rank is the seven hottest years in history from the National Oceanic

3771
06:15:43,900 --> 06:15:45,280
and Atmospheric Administration.

3772
06:15:46,170 --> 06:15:51,180
It's a trend and the trend is not going to plateau.

3773
06:15:53,670 --> 06:16:00,440
In one generation we're going to go from looking forward to summer to fearing summer because

3774
06:16:00,440 --> 06:16:06,780
Because it's too hot to work outside, too hot to golf in the daytime, too hot to be in

3775
06:16:06,780 --> 06:16:15,100
the city, too hot to stay alive without air conditioning, too hot to sleep without air

3776
06:16:15,100 --> 06:16:23,140
conditioning, too hot to firm successfully, too hot for the animals to live, streams too

3777
06:16:23,140 --> 06:16:24,380
hot for the fish to live.

3778
06:16:24,380 --> 06:16:37,070
You know, we can't ignore this, and it's on my mind all the time, so we can't think

3779
06:16:37,070 --> 06:16:41,050
that we can plan for what our community will look like and how it's going to function,

3780
06:16:41,970 --> 06:16:45,190
what the field-built form should be three decades from now.

3781
06:16:46,790 --> 06:16:52,330
You know, there's massive changes, and I think it's crazy that the provincial government thinks

3782
06:16:52,330 --> 06:16:59,310
that we should be planning for three decades into the future, but we are stuck with that.

3783
06:17:02,170 --> 06:17:08,870
I also think that, you know, we've been told to plan for the single-family housing market.

3784
06:17:09,550 --> 06:17:15,970
I don't think there's any shortage of single-family dwellings. It's practically the only type

3785
06:17:15,970 --> 06:17:22,410
housing that exists in Holtman Hills. So when I hear that we need to take a balanced approach

3786
06:17:22,410 --> 06:17:28,310
because everyone likes balance and then they tell us that the balanced approach is to provide

3787
06:17:28,310 --> 06:17:34,950
60% of the housing is single-family dwellings. I think what are you talking about? The balanced

3788
06:17:34,950 --> 06:17:41,930
approach would be to add apartments because we're at 95% single-family dwellings right now.

3789
06:17:43,770 --> 06:17:44,890
And certainly,

3790
06:17:47,500 --> 06:17:53,900
if we're thinking, as Hemson said, and it's analysis that the boomers

3791
06:17:53,900 --> 06:17:59,960
aren't going to give up their houses, this plan doesn't start for 10 more years.

3792
06:18:00,660 --> 06:18:04,400
In 10 more years, the boomers are going to start to be 85 years old.

3793
06:18:05,560 --> 06:18:08,940
I got to think some of them are moving one way or the other.

3794
06:18:10,570 --> 06:18:19,590
So moving on to the employment side, I may have that one a bit wrong, but anyway, I'm

3795
06:18:19,590 --> 06:18:27,930
sticking with my way of saying this because I think that is still a lot of employment land.

3796
06:18:29,790 --> 06:18:38,960
And that we will certainly be adding more jobs that are long time good jobs that we can

3797
06:18:38,960 --> 06:18:45,380
We count on within the community area and has been noted that those warehouses, the owners

3798
06:18:45,380 --> 06:18:48,560
of the warehouses are doing everything they can to eliminate the jobs.

3799
06:18:50,400 --> 06:18:56,260
And certainly by the time this plan kicks in 10 years from now, there will be less jobs

3800
06:18:56,260 --> 06:18:58,440
because they're mechanizing the whole thing.

3801
06:18:59,780 --> 06:19:03,080
And so is that really where we want to invest?

3802
06:19:06,300 --> 06:19:15,300
The, on the farmland side, Hack has said, and the Houghton Regional Federation of Agriculture

3803
06:19:15,300 --> 06:19:20,740
has said, preserve the farmland as long as possible and as much as possible.

3804
06:19:21,180 --> 06:19:28,540
They haven't said that they want it to be permanently protected, and I think we need to definitely

3805
06:19:28,540 --> 06:19:37,800
take out that paragraph 9, which leaves us with a semi-permanent agricultural area

3806
06:19:37,800 --> 06:19:46,800
to 2051. I don't think we can do it anyway, but to preserve their future possibilities,

3807
06:19:47,000 --> 06:19:49,920
I think we should take that out, and we don't need it anyway.

3808
06:19:55,640 --> 06:20:01,220
Before I finish, I want to thank the probably 200 people who sent messages to counselors,

3809
06:20:01,220 --> 06:20:06,980
urging them to hold the line on urban expansion and put climate change at the

3810
06:20:06,980 --> 06:20:11,680
top of their priorities. Protect our agricultural land. And I want to thank

3811
06:20:11,680 --> 06:20:16,440
the residents who went to work to inform the public and give them ways to quickly

3812
06:20:16,440 --> 06:20:20,880
raise their voices. I understand that some counselors are upset about receiving

3813
06:20:20,880 --> 06:20:25,740
emails from people who live elsewhere in Hilton, but issues of climate change

3814
06:20:25,740 --> 06:20:31,200
and agricultural land preservation are global in nature. What we do, what we

3815
06:20:31,200 --> 06:20:37,300
decide affects people living on the other side of the 401. I personally took an interest

3816
06:20:37,300 --> 06:20:42,600
in the decision making process in the city of Hamilton. I went so far as to listen to

3817
06:20:42,600 --> 06:20:47,920
the presentation made in Hamilton to their counsel and to the public regarding the economics

3818
06:20:47,920 --> 06:20:53,880
of sprawl versus compact walkable neighborhoods. And for those of you who put the finances

3819
06:20:53,880 --> 06:20:58,480
of the municipality at the top of your list, the truth of the matter is that sprawl does

3820
06:20:58,480 --> 06:21:06,180
not pay for itself. It is not economically sustainable and we can see that. It's why we try

3821
06:21:06,180 --> 06:21:13,220
to get more commercial employment uses to subsidize sprawl. That's what's driving us.

3822
06:21:13,460 --> 06:21:19,100
And I saw an example after example of towns and cities that couldn't afford to replace the

3823
06:21:19,100 --> 06:21:24,140
infrastructure that was originally played for by development charges, but needed tax dollars

3824
06:21:24,140 --> 06:21:31,600
to maintain and replace. So they use the next phase of development charges to pay off the debt

3825
06:21:31,600 --> 06:21:39,820
from the previous ones. And look at what we saw yesterday. We've got a $21 million deficit

3826
06:21:41,260 --> 06:21:47,120
to pay off in our long-range financial plan. How do we get there? How do we get out of that?

3827
06:21:47,120 --> 06:21:52,680
You know, if we keep doing the same thing, we are not going to solve that problem.

3828
06:21:53,100 --> 06:21:55,980
It is a big problem and sure.

3829
06:21:58,450 --> 06:22:01,160
We'll do it again and the same problem will come back.

3830
06:22:01,580 --> 06:22:03,460
So let's not do that.

3831
06:22:06,640 --> 06:22:13,060
Councilor Sareville and Mayor Bennett and I were invited to meet with Councillors from Milton

3832
06:22:13,060 --> 06:22:15,200
to find out about their hopes and dreams.

3833
06:22:15,800 --> 06:22:20,180
and they want to convert 100% of the white belt to urban uses.

3834
06:22:22,440 --> 06:22:25,300
They said, well, this is the last phase of development,

3835
06:22:25,720 --> 06:22:30,540
and it will end their craving for development going forward.

3836
06:22:30,880 --> 06:22:34,500
But I can tell you, if they had more land available, they'd want it to.

3837
06:22:35,340 --> 06:22:38,300
There's always an appetite and an argument to be made

3838
06:22:38,300 --> 06:22:40,780
to convert more agricultural land to urban uses.

3839
06:22:40,780 --> 06:22:48,080
very few municipalities drawn artificial line in the sand and self-regulate, but Waterloo

3840
06:22:48,080 --> 06:22:54,180
region is one of them. And if you look at Waterloo having done it, they are thriving. They

3841
06:22:54,180 --> 06:22:58,860
are getting investment in the downtown area. They're making it more interesting. And they're

3842
06:22:58,860 --> 06:23:06,300
not looking back, and they've done it for themselves. So I

3843
06:23:08,890 --> 06:23:10,410
want to make it clear that in

3844
06:23:10,410 --> 06:23:18,030
the resolution, the amendment, nothing will be permanent except putting land into the urban

3845
06:23:18,030 --> 06:23:27,750
area. It never goes away. So, that is the amendment that's on the floor. I'm hoping that

3846
06:23:27,750 --> 06:23:34,250
after hearing all the delegations, I know what's complicated, that we will find some common ground.

3847
06:23:34,250 --> 06:23:37,910
and I will leave it at that. Thank you.

3848
06:23:38,610 --> 06:23:39,730
Thank you, Councillor.

3849
06:23:42,700 --> 06:23:46,000
It's a lot, you're right. There's a lot to digest.

3850
06:23:46,660 --> 06:23:52,040
This is a very complicated file. It's not black and white.

3851
06:23:53,000 --> 06:23:56,480
But I do want to make some comments a little later.

3852
06:23:56,740 --> 06:23:58,960
But I do have a speaker's list.

3853
06:23:59,700 --> 06:24:02,300
And the next one is Councillor Hearst.

3854
06:24:06,410 --> 06:24:08,650
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Can you hear me okay?

3855
06:24:08,650 --> 06:24:08,710
Okay.

3856
06:24:09,330 --> 06:24:10,330
Yes, we can.

3857
06:24:11,490 --> 06:24:11,710
Great.

3858
06:24:11,990 --> 06:24:12,110
Great.

3859
06:24:13,170 --> 06:24:16,950
First of all, I wanted to also thank the delegations.

3860
06:24:17,570 --> 06:24:24,010
I learned a lot today from the firemers and from the people's experiences.

3861
06:24:25,590 --> 06:24:32,330
And I want to thank staff for all the work that they have put in, bringing this report to us.

3862
06:24:33,350 --> 06:24:40,410
It's been mentioned several times today about a hospital or hospital site requirement.

3863
06:24:40,750 --> 06:24:48,510
And I wanted to explain the Georgetown hospital situation, I think the council is aware, but

3864
06:24:48,510 --> 06:24:55,690
for the benefit of the public, I just want to explain what the situation is regarding

3865
06:24:55,690 --> 06:24:56,890
Georgetown hospital.

3866
06:24:59,550 --> 06:25:05,890
Everyone will remember, not everyone will remember, but I think we all know that Georgetown

3867
06:25:05,890 --> 06:25:08,710
hospital was built in the late 1950s.

3868
06:25:09,200 --> 06:25:16,310
It was a community driven project and it opened in 1961 with much pride and fanfare.

3869
06:25:18,100 --> 06:25:25,010
The problem today is that an overall analysis which has been completed by Houghton Healthcare

3870
06:25:25,010 --> 06:25:31,270
shows that the building has reached the end of its useful life. Building systems

3871
06:25:31,270 --> 06:25:38,330
and controls are out of date for current needs and even the the size and

3872
06:25:38,330 --> 06:25:46,270
this types of rooms are now not not what we would see in health care today.

3873
06:25:46,590 --> 06:25:53,190
Anyone who has spent time in the Georgetown Hospital room and maybe been

3874
06:25:53,190 --> 06:25:59,770
transferred to Oakville Hospital will surely attest to the fact that that the Georgetown

3875
06:25:59,770 --> 06:26:11,450
Hospital does leave a little quite a bit to be desired with regard to privacy and concern

3876
06:26:11,450 --> 06:26:17,450
about about infections. There is a provincial process that has been taken

3877
06:26:17,450 --> 06:26:23,770
in place, Holland Healthcare is currently engaged with the Ministry of Health in a six-stage

3878
06:26:23,770 --> 06:26:27,450
multi-year planning process for Georgetown Hospital.

3879
06:26:28,470 --> 06:26:35,670
Stage 1 material was submitted to the Ministry in April of 2021 that included the business

3880
06:26:35,670 --> 06:26:38,950
plan for the redevelopment of Georgetown Hospital.

3881
06:26:38,950 --> 06:26:46,110
All options for redevelopment are currently being reviewed by the ministry.

3882
06:26:48,380 --> 06:26:56,330
Analysis conducted by Halton Alvarcare has indicated that there is a possibility the existing

3883
06:26:56,860 --> 06:27:03,310
Georgetown hospital site may not be suitable to support the scope of redevelopment which

3884
06:27:03,310 --> 06:27:08,010
is currently contemplated in the stage one submission to the ministry.

3885
06:27:09,150 --> 06:27:17,190
Halton health care advisors have concluded that a new greenfield site is not available

3886
06:27:17,190 --> 06:27:22,730
within the current urban boundary given the need and given the need for a new site

3887
06:27:23,210 --> 06:27:25,910
to be 40 to 45 acres.

3888
06:27:26,350 --> 06:27:30,350
There's just nothing available currently within the urban boundary.

3889
06:27:31,730 --> 06:27:39,510
To accommodate the redevelopment needs, if it is ultimately determined that a new site

3890
06:27:39,510 --> 06:27:45,970
is needed, and given the restriction of the green belt lands to the west of Georgetown,

3891
06:27:46,650 --> 06:27:53,990
the only opportunity to acquire a site would be through a provision of land within an expanded

3892
06:27:53,990 --> 06:27:54,810
urban boundary.

3893
06:27:55,910 --> 06:28:01,650
The replacement and the redevelopment of Georgetown Hospital is a transformative

3894
06:28:01,650 --> 06:28:09,430
capital project for our community, and Halvin Healthcare is asking council today to please

3895
06:28:09,430 --> 06:28:14,670
consider the future healthcare needs of the community, and the future growth needs of

3896
06:28:14,670 --> 06:28:17,830
Georgetown Hospital during our discussions.

3897
06:28:19,230 --> 06:28:22,550
Thank you very much, and I will probably have comments later on.

3898
06:28:22,750 --> 06:28:23,030
Thank you.

3899
06:28:24,150 --> 06:28:30,410
Thank you very much, Councillor Hersson, just with the hospital I've been in contact with

3900
06:28:30,410 --> 06:28:34,310
the hospital and as you said, the hospital's 60 years old.

3901
06:28:35,810 --> 06:28:40,030
And I just could not imagine if we don't expand urban boundary.

3902
06:28:41,370 --> 06:28:43,310
And we ended up having no hospital.

3903
06:28:43,950 --> 06:28:50,730
And I think this pandemic that we've been in the past year proves the need for an expanded

3904
06:28:50,730 --> 06:28:58,510
or brand new hospital has halton healthcare. They've taken in many patients from within

3905
06:28:58,510 --> 06:29:04,770
our own community, within Oakville, within Milton, but also from Peele and from Mississauga

3906
06:29:04,770 --> 06:29:11,350
during this pandemic. And I take like hell, they receive that this hospital end up closing

3907
06:29:11,350 --> 06:29:17,370
in 10, 15 years or whatever because of the age of the hospital. And our residents would

3908
06:29:17,370 --> 06:29:23,290
have to go to Brampton or go to Milton, and that would be a disservice for our community.

3909
06:29:23,830 --> 06:29:28,750
So for a lot of the residents that spoke today, they're probably not aware of all the details

3910
06:29:28,750 --> 06:29:37,190
about the hospital, but it's very important that we give a lot of consideration for the

3911
06:29:37,190 --> 06:29:43,950
hospital, because it's very important, and as Councillor Harris said, they've been working

3912
06:29:43,950 --> 06:29:49,070
working with the ministry to move forward, but I just want to add those extra

3913
06:29:49,070 --> 06:29:56,110
comments with respect to the hospital that we don't find, there's no 45 acres 40 to 45

3914
06:29:56,110 --> 06:29:58,130
of acres for them, the George Towner.

3915
06:30:08,590 --> 06:30:26,830
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Well, I'm not supporting the amendment, and I was very clear on that before. The numbers don't add up, as I've mentioned, the Councillor Fogel and everybody. So, if you want to look at that thing on page 16, let's look at the reality of what those areas are that are approved.

3916
06:30:26,830 --> 06:30:35,350
One A and two A mainly built out. Option one B, approved by the region, there's some applications.

3917
06:30:36,550 --> 06:30:44,490
Two B that is mentioned there, we are working on that right now. Option two A, option two B are

3918
06:30:44,490 --> 06:30:52,870
both in the GTA West border and are frozen. So I can't support any option that is not looking at

3919
06:30:52,870 --> 06:31:00,170
increasing employment lands and it's you know what I've seen members of this

3920
06:31:00,170 --> 06:31:03,670
council as I referred to before say put their hand up I remember

3921
06:31:03,670 --> 06:31:07,810
Council law are doing this saying asking out a council meeting saying what can we

3922
06:31:07,810 --> 06:31:13,730
do to increase our our employment lands our residential ratio is not good

3923
06:31:13,730 --> 06:31:21,570
but if we're looking at freezing employment lands until 2051 with 101 acres as of

3924
06:31:21,570 --> 06:31:27,730
today's shovel ready. It's not going to get any better. Every single member of

3925
06:31:27,730 --> 06:31:32,590
council I've ever seen on every single brochure and anyone I've ever seen

3926
06:31:32,590 --> 06:31:37,650
running for election says we need more jobs. We need to add more employment

3927
06:31:37,650 --> 06:31:40,490
land. We need to make sure people can work from home.

3928
06:31:41,330 --> 06:31:45,470
I have never ever seen anybody run on a platform of

3929
06:31:45,470 --> 06:31:51,490
We have enough jobs because we don't have enough employment land in town.

3930
06:31:52,070 --> 06:31:56,850
We saw two big companies as the Chamber of Reference leaving town.

3931
06:31:58,170 --> 06:32:00,110
So I think we have to be realistic.

3932
06:32:00,870 --> 06:32:05,310
I also can't support option 3B because it's a chaos option.

3933
06:32:06,050 --> 06:32:12,110
It'll take 30,000 people roughly and put them into our present urban areas.

3934
06:32:12,110 --> 06:32:17,290
If we're doing that, if it ever passed, we would have to make sure that there are no

3935
06:32:17,290 --> 06:32:19,410
sacred cow neighborhoods.

3936
06:32:20,030 --> 06:32:22,230
Every neighborhood would have to be considered.

3937
06:32:22,750 --> 06:32:29,550
I heard earlier today that we can't put growth like that in the stable neighborhoods.

3938
06:32:30,070 --> 06:32:33,290
I don't know what are the unstable neighborhoods we would use.

3939
06:32:34,270 --> 06:32:36,770
Every neighborhood we have is stable.

3940
06:32:37,530 --> 06:32:38,850
We have mature neighborhoods.

3941
06:32:38,850 --> 06:32:46,730
We have areas around town where it would be easy to do, the six home, buying up larger

3942
06:32:46,730 --> 06:32:52,210
blocks of homes, about six of them, eight of them, and being able to put up a tower.

3943
06:32:52,570 --> 06:32:53,290
Does that what we want?

3944
06:32:53,910 --> 06:32:54,870
It would be chaos.

3945
06:32:55,330 --> 06:32:56,030
The NIMBYism?

3946
06:32:57,050 --> 06:32:58,430
It would be rampant.

3947
06:32:59,050 --> 06:33:05,130
They seem some of the members of the proponents of this have even voted against modest ones

3948
06:33:05,130 --> 06:33:05,850
that we have seen.

3949
06:33:06,510 --> 06:33:07,730
John Street comes to mind.

3950
06:33:07,730 --> 06:33:13,670
McGibbon. We would have to put in as a right zoning to make sure that it takes

3951
06:33:13,670 --> 06:33:18,970
nimby as a month of table and whatever is going in in that area can because if

3952
06:33:18,970 --> 06:33:24,570
not we're not going to build a damn thing. I also have great difficulty with a

3953
06:33:24,570 --> 06:33:29,850
little bulk of doing it rather cutely to say let's just do a modest one to be

3954
06:33:29,850 --> 06:33:35,510
able to accommodate it. We've talked about housing choices. We had a council

3955
06:33:35,510 --> 06:33:40,870
member last night speaking about the regional state of the housing report and talking about

3956
06:33:40,870 --> 06:33:46,730
the need for affordable housing. Option 3B will not be giving us housing choices that

3957
06:33:46,730 --> 06:33:52,310
we need. We have heard about housing for seniors. We have long-term care. We have heard of

3958
06:33:52,310 --> 06:34:00,130
all these pieces that we would need. That land that would be put aside, as is suggested by the

3959
06:34:00,130 --> 06:34:06,430
amendment would not cover what we would need and what we would want to see. It will increase

3960
06:34:06,430 --> 06:34:12,950
it. It will increase densities and neighborhoods that are stable now. It is going to be difficult

3961
06:34:12,950 --> 06:34:21,170
anyway to ever try to reach whether the targets are, which is mentioned at 70% in option 2. It's

3962
06:34:21,170 --> 06:34:26,890
going to be even harder to try to do that in option 3B. I would hope council would turn down

3963
06:34:26,890 --> 06:34:34,590
option 3B and support the staff report who have done the analysis. When we did the last

3964
06:34:35,870 --> 06:34:42,290
official plan review, we had an anonymous council vote which added in the vision Georgetown

3965
06:34:42,290 --> 06:34:51,350
list. Now 12 years later, we have a split council on it and yes climate change is a huge reason

3966
06:34:51,350 --> 06:34:58,350
on that. But we're also talking, we heard today, that zero homes, 2030. We also know about

3967
06:34:58,350 --> 06:35:02,170
the electrification of it as well. So I don't know where we're going to get all the power

3968
06:35:02,170 --> 06:35:07,710
for it. That's on the side. But how do we think we're going to have people being able to thrive

3969
06:35:07,710 --> 06:35:13,550
in our community if we don't have places for them to go and work? Where are they going to go?

3970
06:35:13,850 --> 06:35:19,310
They're going to have to go out of town, plain and simple. And you know what? We have a neighbor

3971
06:35:19,310 --> 06:35:24,810
to the south of us that is going to welcome every single business opening up there because

3972
06:35:24,810 --> 06:35:30,710
that's where they'll end up. So right now, eighth line, ninth line, Trafalgar, they're all

3973
06:35:30,710 --> 06:35:37,330
busy heading south. And if we go and we let Melton have all of it, and good for Melton, and I know

3974
06:35:37,330 --> 06:35:42,650
there's Melton counselors watching us now, and they would be there, they'd be willing to accept every,

3975
06:35:42,650 --> 06:35:49,330
every business from A to Z to come down there and that would be the right. I would urge

3976
06:35:49,330 --> 06:35:55,810
Council not to support the amendment and to actually support the staff report because

3977
06:35:55,810 --> 06:36:02,830
in the long term, even though we are adding land into it, the land that is going to be removed,

3978
06:36:03,910 --> 06:36:09,670
we have farmers in that area who can't even get mechanics to come to their property. Why?

3979
06:36:09,670 --> 06:36:14,710
They get stopped and they get ticketed when they when they go on roads in Houghton Hills

3980
06:36:15,290 --> 06:36:20,070
We have farmers when they leave with grain trucks to go to deliver grain. What happens?

3981
06:36:20,570 --> 06:36:23,250
They get stopped because the grain trucks

3982
06:36:24,250 --> 06:36:28,290
Look like gravel trucks and we don't want trucks on all those roads

3983
06:36:28,790 --> 06:36:33,910
We make it so much more difficult for the farming community to be able to work in that area

3984
06:36:33,910 --> 06:36:40,850
outside of issues of water, outside of issues of trespass, outside of issues of odor.

3985
06:36:42,490 --> 06:36:47,690
You know, it has been an education the last couple of days going around and meeting

3986
06:36:47,690 --> 06:36:53,010
with the agricultural community and hearing what their concerns were and talking.

3987
06:36:53,630 --> 06:36:57,490
And the reason you were getting a lot of the emails they were being addressed to me, one

3988
06:36:57,490 --> 06:37:00,110
of them told me one day and said, where do I send emails in?

3989
06:37:00,110 --> 06:37:03,090
and I couldn't think of the clerk's proper spelling.

3990
06:37:03,090 --> 06:37:04,490
So I said, send it to me.

3991
06:37:04,570 --> 06:37:05,290
I'll forward it on.

3992
06:37:06,570 --> 06:37:07,410
And you know what?

3993
06:37:07,810 --> 06:37:09,330
I didn't mind getting the emails.

3994
06:37:10,150 --> 06:37:12,550
I found them to be complete spam emails

3995
06:37:12,550 --> 06:37:15,450
when we were getting them two days before the report.

3996
06:37:16,070 --> 06:37:17,330
Probably it bothered me more

3997
06:37:17,330 --> 06:37:19,550
was having a counselor being the one behind it.

3998
06:37:19,690 --> 06:37:20,490
Not bothered me more.

3999
06:37:21,070 --> 06:37:23,290
It wasn't a true community group that was doing it.

4000
06:37:24,030 --> 06:37:25,110
It was, it was that.

4001
06:37:25,950 --> 06:37:27,510
People are gonna come and speak to us.

4002
06:37:27,970 --> 06:37:28,430
That's fine.

4003
06:37:28,430 --> 06:37:32,090
people are going to send it to us, but if you're going to send us the email, especially

4004
06:37:32,090 --> 06:37:37,990
one that is a spam one, and we ask questions, we're going to ask questions. Some people

4005
06:37:37,990 --> 06:37:43,490
had tremendous research in it, and I did some research from it and looked into a bit more

4006
06:37:43,490 --> 06:37:49,570
what they were saying. Other ones, go to a website, fill in your name, the website was up Wellington

4007
06:37:49,570 --> 06:37:58,110
water watchers, go there, fill it out, send it in. You know, this was all goes back to a webinar

4008
06:37:58,430 --> 06:38:05,690
That was held sponsored by a mayor in Southern Halton, which had the title of how to get your

4009
06:38:05,690 --> 06:38:08,770
Regional Council to stop adding land in for development.

4010
06:38:09,310 --> 06:38:11,990
That was the name of the webinar, one of the subtexts.

4011
06:38:12,890 --> 06:38:17,670
And that's what they're doing, they are using this and they're going around to try to do

4012
06:38:17,670 --> 06:38:18,250
that as well.

4013
06:38:18,770 --> 06:38:22,270
They've done wonderful work on the 413, but it's still there.

4014
06:38:23,210 --> 06:38:28,150
I do not want to see, I'm hoping this amendment fails and I do have a couple questions to

4015
06:38:28,150 --> 06:38:29,630
staff if it does, Mr. Mayor.

4016
06:38:31,550 --> 06:38:31,830
Thank you.

4017
06:38:32,230 --> 06:38:34,990
Perhaps you may want to ask the questions of staff now.

4018
06:38:36,910 --> 06:38:37,470
Okay.

4019
06:38:37,610 --> 06:38:43,930
Well, this is on the, if the basis of this amendment fails, it would be for an area for

4020
06:38:43,930 --> 06:38:47,590
employment land around the bottom of the GTA West.

4021
06:38:48,550 --> 06:38:55,750
Because of the unknown around that part, could we almost like lack of a better term, red circle

4022
06:38:55,750 --> 06:39:00,930
that area so that we don't have it where we have an area tied up. It's already tied

4023
06:39:00,930 --> 06:39:06,870
up because of the regional amendment that's on that. Is that something that can be done

4024
06:39:06,870 --> 06:39:11,370
that we would look at putting the employment lands in other areas other than where that

4025
06:39:11,370 --> 06:39:17,630
GTA West border would go such as the north part of of Winston Churchill.

4026
06:39:21,820 --> 06:39:28,040
Through you, Mr. Mayor and to Councillor Somerville, it's one of the reasons why in constructing

4027
06:39:28,040 --> 06:39:36,000
the report, we were silent on geographic location for the additional employment lands.

4028
06:39:36,140 --> 06:39:42,020
Obviously, we said we recommend a certain hectorage or acreage, and we also recommended

4029
06:39:42,020 --> 06:39:46,040
that the Houghton Hills Premier Gateway be prioritized for any additional lands.

4030
06:39:46,880 --> 06:39:52,720
But we wanted to hold, I guess, if you will, on the precise location to have those further

4031
06:39:52,720 --> 06:39:56,540
discussions with the region, the consulting team that the region has employed.

4032
06:39:56,540 --> 06:40:00,080
And frankly, I guess with Council as well about some of those very issues.

4033
06:40:00,320 --> 06:40:04,500
So I think I understand what you're asking, it's really to keep our options open right

4034
06:40:04,500 --> 06:40:10,600
now in terms of the precise location of any additional employment lands that may be allocated

4035
06:40:10,600 --> 06:40:11,200
to the town.

4036
06:40:11,600 --> 06:40:12,520
So hopefully that helps.

4037
06:40:13,380 --> 06:40:13,800
It does.

4038
06:40:14,000 --> 06:40:23,320
And while you're there, John, was my summation about those employment land areas that I mentioned

4039
06:40:23,320 --> 06:40:28,660
Is that correct about the ones that are built out, approved, and moving forward?

4040
06:40:29,020 --> 06:40:33,760
Was that correct on those summations that I had mentioned?

4041
06:40:35,440 --> 06:40:43,320
So through the Mayor to the Councillor, I'm going to call it the original Huss plans south

4042
06:40:43,320 --> 06:40:50,180
of Steele's to the west of Trafalgar, a good chunk of that is built out.

4043
06:40:50,180 --> 06:40:54,500
I don't know the precise acreage and precise geographies.

4044
06:40:54,620 --> 06:41:01,180
The triangle lands on the north side of steels, if I can call it that, near James Snow

4045
06:41:01,180 --> 06:41:07,020
Parkway, or I think largely built out, so they're fairly well spoken for in that area.

4046
06:41:07,100 --> 06:41:14,740
I think there's a reference in the report to about 101 hectares of shovel-ready service

4047
06:41:14,740 --> 06:41:15,160
land.

4048
06:41:15,160 --> 06:41:21,300
So yes, that's that's that's generally where we're at the the phase

4049
06:41:23,680 --> 06:41:27,220
One B lands, of course, have just been very recently approved

4050
06:41:27,920 --> 06:41:32,840
We do have one application that has come in and we are expecting it another shortly

4051
06:41:33,400 --> 06:41:40,960
And probably one thereafter that will account for most of those lands and you may recall those were supposed to actually be made available

4052
06:41:40,960 --> 06:41:47,360
pre-2021 and of course here we are in 2021 so we're a bit behind there but the

4053
06:41:47,360 --> 06:41:52,080
demand in that area appears to be strong as well. We're currently working on the

4054
06:41:52,080 --> 06:41:56,000
secondary plan for the phase 2B lands generally on the north side of

4055
06:41:56,000 --> 06:41:59,900
steels between the eighth line and Winston Churchill Boulevard and then of

4056
06:41:59,900 --> 06:42:05,700
course the phase 2A lands are generally the lands that are on the south side of

4057
06:42:05,700 --> 06:42:13,260
deals between TPO and extending over to Winston Churchill Boulevard and we do know a significant amount

4058
06:42:13,260 --> 06:42:21,260
of those lands would be encumbered based on what the routing was for the GTA-West corridor.

4059
06:42:21,260 --> 06:42:27,400
They'll call it the technically preferred road and the focused area analysis. A lot of those lands

4060
06:42:27,400 --> 06:42:32,180
would appear to be permanently lost if you will, so hopefully that helps.

4061
06:42:32,180 --> 06:42:37,580
it does so my summary was close. Thank you very much, John.

4062
06:42:40,140 --> 06:42:42,800
Thank you. Our next speaker is Councillor Engels.

4063
06:42:46,330 --> 06:42:47,250
Thank you, Worship.

4064
06:42:49,290 --> 06:42:53,990
I have lots of notes here, but I've tried to distill this down.

4065
06:42:54,150 --> 06:43:02,550
It was a very interesting and I would say very educational meeting there was a lot of things

4066
06:43:02,550 --> 06:43:11,690
that came out from certain delegations that were not part of my thinking before we had

4067
06:43:11,690 --> 06:43:12,070
the meeting.

4068
06:43:12,370 --> 06:43:16,050
So there's a little bit of give and take as I'm going through the meeting.

4069
06:43:16,210 --> 06:43:21,850
It's definitely a complex issue and a lot of inputs to consider here.

4070
06:43:21,850 --> 06:43:35,490
what I tried to do is to distill down what I wouldn't budge on and there's

4071
06:43:35,490 --> 06:43:40,810
basically three things and one is the employment lands. Now as far as the

4072
06:43:40,810 --> 06:43:45,110
number goes I'm not too sure when Councillor Vogel talked about the

4073
06:43:45,110 --> 06:43:50,950
amendment how much is the right amount and it's a little late in the meeting for

4074
06:43:50,950 --> 06:44:01,510
me to decide that particular detail at this point, but I won't support 3D for a couple

4075
06:44:01,510 --> 06:44:02,670
of these reasons here.

4076
06:44:04,090 --> 06:44:06,650
The employment lands, I think they're needed.

4077
06:44:06,930 --> 06:44:12,210
I think there was lots of information that came out about that.

4078
06:44:12,410 --> 06:44:17,590
Our ratio was, I think, in the summer of a may have already said that the 90-10 we've been

4079
06:44:17,590 --> 06:44:18,690
playing around with that number.

4080
06:44:18,690 --> 06:44:25,610
we've gotten a little bit better as we go along, but it is not going for a growing community

4081
06:44:25,610 --> 06:44:34,030
just in general. Number two that I won't waver on is the hospital site.

4082
06:44:37,030 --> 06:44:39,210
I don't see any way

4083
06:44:39,210 --> 06:44:43,050
of holding the boundary fixed,

4084
06:44:45,950 --> 06:44:57,730
making that hospital site available, viable, I just can't see that happening, so that's another reason.

4085
06:45:00,500 --> 06:45:28,840
And one of the other things that I brought up here, and it did come up here in someone, with that type of intensification within the boundaries, I don't want to use the word impossible. But I think the number, perhaps the consultant used the word challenging, I would say very challenging. We need for all those people coming. For all those people being,

4086
06:45:28,840 --> 06:45:35,240
if they're pushed into what we have is the boundary now, okay?

4087
06:45:36,040 --> 06:45:39,180
They need schools, they need community centers,

4088
06:45:39,900 --> 06:45:44,820
they need recreational centers, they need...

4089
06:45:44,820 --> 06:45:52,820
There's a whole raft of services basically that will be in large, large demands

4090
06:45:53,710 --> 06:45:56,540
and they can't go up.

4091
06:45:56,540 --> 06:46:15,560
Some of both things can't go up. I have been a proponent of going up in this town for 25 years. Probably a little longer than that, but the 20 or 25 have been on council. I think we should have been going up and we still do whether it's for years and those those three points there.

4092
06:46:15,560 --> 06:46:23,940
take me off of 3B and a little bit of time on the amendment. I'm going to pull against

4093
06:46:23,940 --> 06:46:33,800
the amendment as well on this one. I would say there's this is by no way ignoring climate

4094
06:46:33,800 --> 06:46:34,480
change.

4095
06:46:36,580 --> 06:46:46,820
I know that and that is a valid argument on what we're going through here. I just

4096
06:46:48,400 --> 06:46:50,860
You've got to look at some things here, idealism.

4097
06:46:51,120 --> 06:46:55,700
I think one of the quotes that one of our delegations said,

4098
06:46:55,900 --> 06:46:59,300
I did write it down here, oh, keep your idealism practical.

4099
06:47:01,660 --> 06:47:06,500
And it stood out me for the last PRs we've been going along here.

4100
06:47:06,840 --> 06:47:09,000
And I think it makes some sense.

4101
06:47:09,140 --> 06:47:11,340
And especially in a complex situation like this.

4102
06:47:13,260 --> 06:47:15,860
So I have other things here.

4103
06:47:15,860 --> 06:47:25,540
I may have comments following I do have one question of staff because I think this is a very important point as well for for for us all and it has to do with the.

4104
06:47:27,600 --> 06:47:37,480
What I call locking into 2021 I asked the I asked the consultant about how the process works, whatever decision is made.

4105
06:47:39,640 --> 06:47:45,700
Are we locked in, can things change in five years, can things change in ten years?

4106
06:47:46,680 --> 06:47:49,200
It is kind of a simplistic way.

4107
06:47:49,380 --> 06:47:54,600
I took it that changing the boundaries in those years.

4108
06:47:54,960 --> 06:48:00,000
Out of the 2050, 30 years out, I cannot happen.

4109
06:48:01,060 --> 06:48:09,640
So I just, I just look at if it's not done now, it's not done for 30 years to add lands

4110
06:48:09,640 --> 06:48:12,600
in that may be needed.

4111
06:48:12,760 --> 06:48:19,820
I would like to, I want to compact, I want to compact, but practicality says it's, I

4112
06:48:19,820 --> 06:48:25,920
find it difficult to think that 3B is practical in that sense.

4113
06:48:25,920 --> 06:48:33,060
So I will not be supporting the amendment 3b as it is.

4114
06:48:34,120 --> 06:48:36,020
Those are my comments for now. Thank you.

4115
06:48:36,960 --> 06:48:38,980
Councillor Engels, do you have a question in there?

4116
06:48:39,960 --> 06:48:43,440
Oh, I did. Yes. Sorry. I started talking about it.

4117
06:48:43,720 --> 06:48:46,300
It has to do and through you to Mr. Leonard.

4118
06:48:47,460 --> 06:48:58,260
am I correct in how I've looked at the 2051 and the locking in of our urban boundaries

4119
06:48:58,720 --> 06:49:00,260
for the next 30 years?

4120
06:49:05,870 --> 06:49:10,110
Through the Mayor to the Councilor, that's certainly how we see it because what the

4121
06:49:10,110 --> 06:49:15,590
region is doing is they are developing a plan out to the year 2051 and they're going to

4122
06:49:15,590 --> 06:49:22,130
allocate growth to the four local municipalities to that time frame and the report that the region has

4123
06:49:22,130 --> 06:49:28,950
on tomorrow goes into that into some more detail. Basically, it's the long lead times that are

4124
06:49:28,950 --> 06:49:35,150
required to do planning and I know there's certainly some discomfort around the table with counsel

4125
06:49:35,150 --> 06:49:41,630
that the province extended the planning horizon from 2041 to 2051 and I appreciate that there's varying

4126
06:49:41,630 --> 06:49:47,450
views on that. That's sort of the hand that we've been given to play with. But essentially

4127
06:49:47,450 --> 06:49:52,270
what the region has to do now, and they've got the direction from the minister, is develop

4128
06:49:52,270 --> 06:49:58,990
a growth management plan that looks out to 2051, and they will proceed to do that, presumably,

4129
06:50:00,110 --> 06:50:05,390
and a number of other steps will follow in train. And that includes things like once the

4130
06:50:05,390 --> 06:50:09,470
minister approves the amendment, developing the best planning estimates that are complementary

4131
06:50:09,470 --> 06:50:14,390
entry to the regional plan amendment, getting into updates to the water and wastewater

4132
06:50:14,390 --> 06:50:20,610
and transportation master plans, the DC by-law updates, all of those various things in

4133
06:50:20,610 --> 06:50:24,810
the allocation programs, and then there's the whole, I'll call it local processes that

4134
06:50:24,810 --> 06:50:30,110
have to follow and train, including updates to the local plans, the development of any secondary

4135
06:50:30,110 --> 06:50:37,330
plans that have to be done for either intensification areas or designated green field areas or employment

4136
06:50:37,330 --> 06:50:44,810
areas. And then obviously the whole development review process. And what I'm finding now, there

4137
06:50:44,810 --> 06:50:48,810
used to be, I guess I would call it, a bit of a rule of thumb. It takes about 10 years

4138
06:50:48,810 --> 06:50:53,650
to bring land on stream from the earliest stages of a process to where you're actually

4139
06:50:53,650 --> 06:50:58,330
getting building permits. Those days are long gone in my view. I think it's trending more

4140
06:50:58,330 --> 06:51:03,550
to 15 years and maybe even longer. So that's part of the challenge. And some of the reasons

4141
06:51:03,550 --> 06:51:09,770
why you have to start some of these processes so early, but just to conclude with, in my view,

4142
06:51:10,110 --> 06:51:17,370
everything will be locked in and then typically the next opportunity to revisit the decisions would

4143
06:51:17,370 --> 06:51:21,770
occur about 10 years from now. I certainly wouldn't dispute that, but typically you would be then

4144
06:51:21,770 --> 06:51:29,970
looking at probably an extended planning horizon of 2061 or 2071, depending upon, I guess, the

4145
06:51:29,970 --> 06:51:34,450
the priorities of the provincial government of the day and revised growth forecasts.

4146
06:51:34,930 --> 06:51:41,530
So that's what we know right now, and I can appreciate it's a dilemma for council, but

4147
06:51:41,530 --> 06:51:43,890
that's typically how these things work.

4148
06:51:44,230 --> 06:51:49,490
And once the region sort of locks a lot of things in, a lot of infrastructure and investment

4149
06:51:49,490 --> 06:51:56,010
decisions follow, and there's always a great reluctance to sort of go back in and redo things

4150
06:51:56,010 --> 06:51:57,230
based on my experience.

4151
06:51:58,670 --> 06:52:23,090
Well, that's well, thank you for that. I take that as being a key point here as well. It's a really, I was one that I take some, I talked some issue, I guess, I guess I should say with the 2021 planning horizon and being put out that part, but like you say, that's that's the hand we're dealt and that's what it is.

4152
06:52:23,090 --> 06:52:29,690
That's what it is. The population numbers may change. I see on the reviews and some numbers

4153
06:52:29,690 --> 06:52:35,710
may change, but that boundary line, that urban boundary line will remain the same until

4154
06:52:35,710 --> 06:52:41,730
2050-51. So for the next 30 years, if we needed two hospitals, if we needed another swimming

4155
06:52:41,730 --> 06:52:47,690
pool, it would have to be fun within the urban boundaries we have now. And I think that's

4156
06:52:47,690 --> 06:52:58,070
I think it's quite critical for Councillors to consider when we make our decision here.

4157
06:52:58,410 --> 06:53:02,270
So thank you for that, Mr. Linhardt, and that's it for me, Mr. Mayor, for now.

4158
06:53:02,410 --> 06:53:02,710
Thank you.

4159
06:53:03,370 --> 06:53:03,930
Thank you.

4160
06:53:04,170 --> 06:53:05,750
Our next speaker is Councillor Lawler.

4161
06:53:08,480 --> 06:53:15,680
Thanks very much, Mr. Mayor, and thank you to all the delegates and for the messages that

4162
06:53:15,680 --> 06:53:27,800
we've received over the last few days, I am incredibly conflicted over this whole exercise,

4163
06:53:28,380 --> 06:53:39,420
and I'd like to ask, press a little bit further, frankly, with Mr. Linhart about the

4164
06:53:39,420 --> 06:53:50,620
the notion of reviewing this in 10 years because frankly, as far as I'm concerned, if the decision

4165
06:53:50,620 --> 06:54:02,640
that we are taking handcuffs, future councils, for 30 years, then I think that our democracy

4166
06:54:02,640 --> 06:54:12,060
has really in trouble and that the the province has, I think I said earlier, sent us on a

4167
06:54:12,060 --> 06:54:18,240
fool's errand that there is no chance of success for this project or this these projections

4168
06:54:19,000 --> 06:54:27,340
because it is impossible for us to know the future and to cement our land use planning

4169
06:54:27,340 --> 06:54:36,460
for that length of time with no option for change by future councils is bizarre as far as I'm concerned.

4170
06:54:37,280 --> 06:54:48,220
So John, do you mind repeating again, are you saying there would be no opportunity for a town council in ten years

4171
06:54:49,520 --> 06:55:01,420
to expand or change the urban boundaries that we would put in place this year as a

4172
06:55:01,420 --> 06:55:04,040
decision of this Council and Regional Council.

4173
06:55:06,890 --> 06:55:12,010
Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councilor Lawler, it's not a question of that you wouldn't have

4174
06:55:12,010 --> 06:55:14,650
an opportunity to revisit the urban boundary.

4175
06:55:14,770 --> 06:55:16,610
Maybe it's more of a phasing question.

4176
06:55:17,690 --> 06:55:22,750
So, the way the region develops their growth management strategies is they have phasing lines,

4177
06:55:23,650 --> 06:55:27,970
and it gets a good way to look at it is when they added in the sustainable halton lands

4178
06:55:27,970 --> 06:55:33,910
for halton hills and let's say Milton, any notion that the town was going to be able to bring

4179
06:55:33,910 --> 06:55:39,130
those lands on, let's say sooner than the region's agreed to phasing line was not on the table,

4180
06:55:39,130 --> 06:55:45,810
and a lot of that came down to enough land being available elsewhere in the region to a certain

4181
06:55:45,810 --> 06:55:50,290
planning horizon. So it's not that you can't make a decision on what the urban boundary

4182
06:55:50,290 --> 06:55:55,610
might be. A few years down the road, it tends to be more. It will be for the next planning

4183
06:55:55,610 --> 06:56:01,590
horizon. And I guess that's the difficulty or the challenge. I guess in terms of the

4184
06:56:01,590 --> 06:56:06,510
example or the situation you're in now, and obviously we don't know what regional council

4185
06:56:06,510 --> 06:56:11,970
is going to decide. But for the sake of the argument, if there was no urban boundary expansion

4186
06:56:11,970 --> 06:56:16,450
mentioned in Hulton Hills and there was in Milton and that was then deemed to be meeting

4187
06:56:16,450 --> 06:56:23,630
the needs out to the year 2051. What I expect is a future council would be told is we

4188
06:56:23,630 --> 06:56:30,510
have enough land now designated to 2051 in the town of Milton and we have our intensification

4189
06:56:30,510 --> 06:56:35,710
objectives and the other two communities let's say to the south and we've made our infrastructure

4190
06:56:35,710 --> 06:56:42,150
your decisions accordingly you have to buy it and wait your time. And I know that may not be

4191
06:56:42,990 --> 06:56:48,650
the answer you want to hear but that's sort of the way it tends to work is that once you make

4192
06:56:48,650 --> 06:56:51,110
those decisions they do get locked in.

4193
06:56:53,260 --> 06:56:57,000
Well I guess I guess the biting my time would be just fine

4194
06:56:57,000 --> 06:57:05,020
with me frankly because in 10 years a future council is going to have a very different perspective

4195
06:57:05,020 --> 06:57:15,160
than we do right now. And as far as I'm concerned holding the boundaries where they are right now

4196
06:57:15,160 --> 06:57:23,220
is probably the most conservative decision that this council could make. Because what it does

4197
06:57:23,220 --> 06:57:31,840
is allow for all options for future land use by future councils to choose from.

4198
06:57:33,100 --> 06:57:43,140
And, you know, so it's extremely conservative because it doesn't lock us into anything.

4199
06:57:44,200 --> 06:57:49,480
It is the least risky perspective to take.

4200
06:57:51,320 --> 06:57:58,200
And all of these commentaries that we've received say, well, the growth will happen in a

4201
06:57:58,200 --> 06:58:00,660
is way, it will happen in the future anyway.

4202
06:58:01,180 --> 06:58:03,100
None of the growth that we're talking about

4203
06:58:03,100 --> 06:58:05,760
is projected to happen in the next five years.

4204
06:58:08,260 --> 06:58:12,060
And most of it, even in the next 10 years.

4205
06:58:13,620 --> 06:58:16,960
So by keeping the urban boundaries where they are right now,

4206
06:58:17,340 --> 06:58:20,620
this gives maximum flexibility to a future council.

4207
06:58:20,620 --> 06:58:32,140
So, I have another question about the employment lands if I made a Mr. Linnhart.

4208
06:58:33,380 --> 06:58:42,280
And that is, it's my understanding that the Chief Planner of the Region suggested that

4209
06:58:42,280 --> 06:58:49,340
the employment lands that we have allocated right now, that we have designated right now,

4210
06:58:49,340 --> 06:59:02,160
We'll take us to 2041, okay, and if I, you know, if we can then make changes in ten

4211
06:59:02,160 --> 06:59:11,940
years and potentially add more employment lands or residential lands or whatever, then

4212
06:59:11,940 --> 06:59:21,220
Then, are we fine with employment lens to 2041 and could we then add more in a future

4213
06:59:21,220 --> 06:59:22,180
council decision?

4214
06:59:23,960 --> 06:59:25,460
Do you have that sense?

4215
06:59:29,380 --> 06:59:33,220
So, through the mayor to the councilor, I think there's a few things to think about

4216
06:59:33,220 --> 06:59:41,880
there with the question, but when exactly the, I'm going to call it the HUSP Sustainable

4217
06:59:41,880 --> 06:59:44,720
Halt and Land Supply is going to be fully built out.

4218
06:59:45,000 --> 06:59:48,320
There's a bit of a crystal-balling exercise going on right now.

4219
06:59:49,060 --> 06:59:52,580
Obviously, it had been intended to be built out by 2031.

4220
06:59:52,740 --> 06:59:58,100
The region is now suggesting that it will be in a long-gated build out for a variety of...

4221
07:00:00,000 --> 07:00:29,880
And we've seen things like the mid-2030s, referenced in some of the region's reports, maybe the late-2030s, depending upon who you ask. So yes, you've probably heard that particular comment. Insofar as, again, another review. There's no question that probably at some point there will be another review based on everything that we know. It's a regional review. What I'd have to say.

4222
07:00:29,880 --> 07:00:37,460
though is based on past experience and what we know, it will probably be looking at a post-2051

4223
07:00:37,460 --> 07:00:43,500
growth increment. That's the best way I can characterize it, not a pre-2051 growth increment,

4224
07:00:44,040 --> 07:00:51,400
and I think Councillor Arrall, you did mention that you would be fine with a pause, and that's fair

4225
07:00:51,400 --> 07:00:58,200
as a council, if that's what you decide. I think it's important that in making the decisions that you

4226
07:00:58,200 --> 07:01:00,800
You should recognize that is a possible outcome.

4227
07:01:00,960 --> 07:01:05,780
You might have to go through a period of time where your land supply is much more constrained

4228
07:01:05,780 --> 07:01:08,680
if you wait because ultimately this is a regional decision.

4229
07:01:08,860 --> 07:01:10,460
It's a decision of regional council.

4230
07:01:11,560 --> 07:01:18,120
Only they can do this type of municipal comprehensive review based on the rules of engagement that

4231
07:01:18,120 --> 07:01:19,920
are in place in the province right now.

4232
07:01:20,840 --> 07:01:26,020
So to a certain degree, you're relying on when another level of government will commence

4233
07:01:26,020 --> 07:01:30,300
that review and they in turn will sort of commence that review based on direction from

4234
07:01:30,300 --> 07:01:36,120
the province. So it's a top-down approach. Unfortunately, perhaps doesn't give us as much

4235
07:01:36,120 --> 07:01:41,900
discretion as we might like in our own backyard. So that's why we've had to piece this report

4236
07:01:42,660 --> 07:01:46,180
together that you have in front of you today based on sort of what we know.

4237
07:01:52,080 --> 07:01:55,720
So hopefully

4238
07:01:55,720 --> 07:02:08,660
that many of the most of the constituents that I have been in contact with feel very

4239
07:02:08,660 --> 07:02:15,480
strongly about the climate change issue and they feel very strongly as well that we

4240
07:02:15,480 --> 07:02:23,840
should be planning our growth and development in a way which reflects climate change.

4241
07:02:23,840 --> 07:02:31,380
And they have also said that they want to grow up not out, that they value the agricultural

4242
07:02:31,380 --> 07:02:34,640
land in a significant way.

4243
07:02:35,060 --> 07:02:37,140
They value the character of our community.

4244
07:02:38,260 --> 07:02:45,440
And so when the time comes, I will certainly have that in mind.

4245
07:02:45,980 --> 07:02:51,000
So thank you, those are my questions, and I'll have probably further comments later.

4246
07:02:51,000 --> 07:02:53,920
Thank you.

4247
07:02:54,100 --> 07:02:55,540
Next is Councillor Johnson.

4248
07:02:58,420 --> 07:02:59,160
Thanks, Mr. Mayor.

4249
07:02:59,920 --> 07:03:04,460
I have a couple of questions of Mr. Lynch-Hart, I think, he can answer.

4250
07:03:05,560 --> 07:03:12,980
Because this is a regional exercise, and the region has been told they have to accommodate

4251
07:03:13,430 --> 07:03:24,140
X number of people, what is the regional estimation of the number of hectares that are required

4252
07:03:24,140 --> 07:03:29,540
to accommodate that. I'm assuming it's arranged, but I don't remember that we saw the overall

4253
07:03:30,940 --> 07:03:32,660
halton-wide numbers.

4254
07:03:36,550 --> 07:03:42,490
Yes, through the mayor to Councillor Johnson, I believe if we go into the staff report,

4255
07:03:44,190 --> 07:03:49,690
we can find that information where it talks about the five growth concepts.

4256
07:03:50,770 --> 07:03:51,550
Oh, all right.

4257
07:03:53,370 --> 07:03:59,390
So it does vary, obviously, so I'm not sure if you're if you want to talk about the employment

4258
07:03:59,390 --> 07:04:04,570
component or the residential. No, I know I'm more the more the residential, but the, yeah,

4259
07:04:04,730 --> 07:04:11,310
employment too, but it was the residential that I was really. Okay, so from a regional perspective,

4260
07:04:12,130 --> 07:04:19,550
the amount of new DGA, if I can call it that designated green field area, would range across the

4261
07:04:19,550 --> 07:04:29,490
region as a whole from zero, which is what is set out in concept 3a and 3b to...

4262
07:04:29,490 --> 07:04:31,570
That's Halton Hills. I'm talking region.

4263
07:04:31,690 --> 07:04:41,070
That is the region, the concept 3a, concept 3b does not propose any kind of urban expansion

4264
07:04:41,070 --> 07:04:44,030
for residential mixed-use purposes, either the two concepts.

4265
07:04:45,290 --> 07:04:54,730
The upper range, if I can call it that, which is concept 4, proposes 2,080 hectares across

4266
07:04:54,730 --> 07:04:55,890
the region as a whole.

4267
07:04:56,950 --> 07:05:07,130
So there's the range, from 0 to 2,080, and then you have concept 1, which suggests 1

4268
07:05:09,270 --> 07:05:10,670
,460

4269
07:05:10,670 --> 07:05:12,510
60 hectares for the region as a whole.

4270
07:05:15,010 --> 07:05:22,190
And then lastly, concept 2 suggests 730 hectares for the region as a whole.

4271
07:05:23,130 --> 07:05:28,870
And then obviously those numbers are then split between Houghton Hills and Milton under

4272
07:05:28,870 --> 07:05:32,190
the three of the four concepts.

4273
07:05:32,990 --> 07:05:41,230
And you said that Milton has just approved a recommendation to the region to put all of

4274
07:05:41,230 --> 07:05:43,330
their white belt in. How much is that?

4275
07:05:46,900 --> 07:05:49,760
I'm going to see if, no,

4276
07:05:52,100 --> 07:05:52,720
that's okay.

4277
07:05:54,100 --> 07:05:59,520
Through the mirror. Before you answer, my point is if we designate

4278
07:05:59,520 --> 07:06:04,500
whatever and then Milton is already designated whatever and say it's more

4279
07:06:04,500 --> 07:06:09,840
than we need, the region needs, then what do they do? Do they say, well, you get

4280
07:06:09,840 --> 07:06:15,480
this and you get that 50, 50 or 80, 20 or like, how does, how is that decision

4281
07:06:15,480 --> 07:06:20,300
made if there's too much white melt designated?

4282
07:06:21,020 --> 07:06:23,940
So through the Mayor to the Council, it's an excellent question.

4283
07:06:24,260 --> 07:06:30,120
So right now the local municipalities are being asked to express their preferences and

4284
07:06:30,120 --> 07:06:36,740
I think each local municipality is largely looking at it from their own geography in terms

4285
07:06:36,740 --> 07:06:42,360
of where they may be in the development cycle, the character of their community and their

4286
07:06:42,360 --> 07:06:43,060
priorities.

4287
07:06:43,060 --> 07:06:53,340
So Milton obviously wants to build out the or least plan for the build out of the rest of their white belt lands and that's their vision, that's their plan.

4288
07:06:53,900 --> 07:06:58,020
Our approach obviously through this report is something much more cautious.

4289
07:06:59,160 --> 07:07:11,140
There will be the regions going to have to decipher all of the input that comes in and make some decisions and determine what amount of land

4290
07:07:11,140 --> 07:07:17,020
and should be supported, and they will have to demonstrate to the satisfaction of the

4291
07:07:17,020 --> 07:07:22,140
province that that's reasonable through what's called a land needs methodology assessment.

4292
07:07:22,500 --> 07:07:27,040
So the region's done through their consultants and initial report, I guess, and they will have

4293
07:07:27,040 --> 07:07:32,260
to do further work that basically demonstrates that they've followed the sort of the rule

4294
07:07:32,260 --> 07:07:36,980
set set out by the province for determining land needs, both on the residential side and

4295
07:07:36,980 --> 07:07:38,240
on the employment side.

4296
07:07:38,240 --> 07:07:44,460
In general terms, the region has always been fairly cautious in terms of land supply.

4297
07:07:44,760 --> 07:07:49,500
Certainly through sustainable halton, there was no desire on the part of the region to

4298
07:07:49,500 --> 07:07:54,840
over-designate. I think it really is going to come down to making a determination on what that

4299
07:07:54,840 --> 07:08:01,520
supply should be. And again, I don't believe you'll see the region looking to over-designate or go

4300
07:08:01,520 --> 07:08:03,520
beyond what they think is reasonable.

4301
07:08:06,700 --> 07:08:17,080
Okay, so I guess my point is if Milton has offered up all their white belt and do they

4302
07:08:17,080 --> 07:08:22,760
still need, as much, well, concept 2 is on the table for the staff recommendation.

4303
07:08:23,640 --> 07:08:28,880
If they don't need that much, would they come back to us and say, you know, do you want

4304
07:08:28,880 --> 07:08:33,500
last or do you want, are you that carved in stone and will take some out of Milton?

4305
07:08:33,780 --> 07:08:38,500
Like is that another discussion for another day when this is all said then?

4306
07:08:39,900 --> 07:08:44,700
So, through the marriage to the Councilor and I appreciate it is very complicated.

4307
07:08:45,560 --> 07:08:50,580
The region has always suggested that the preferred concept could be a hybrid that pulls from

4308
07:08:51,140 --> 07:08:57,180
elements from the different concepts and I think what the region would like to do if at

4309
07:08:57,180 --> 07:09:02,480
all possible would be to try to achieve some form of consensus between the four local

4310
07:09:02,480 --> 07:09:08,680
municipalities as to what an integrated growth management strategy would be moving forward

4311
07:09:09,240 --> 07:09:12,960
as a basis for a preferred growth concept and a regional official plan amendment.

4312
07:09:13,280 --> 07:09:18,120
I would submit that would be prudent if it is possible and it's probably always better

4313
07:09:18,120 --> 07:09:23,920
to go to the province to say we've managed to quilt something together of a growth strategy

4314
07:09:23,920 --> 07:09:27,320
that's acceptable to the region and the four local municipalities.

4315
07:09:27,960 --> 07:09:31,420
Whether that will be possible, I don't know at this point in time.

4316
07:09:31,500 --> 07:09:33,420
That's something that has to be worked through.

4317
07:09:34,940 --> 07:09:40,320
You could have a hybrid option depending on what this council decides today.

4318
07:09:40,740 --> 07:09:46,300
If, for example, council was not interested in pursuing, let's say some of the employment

4319
07:09:46,300 --> 07:09:48,060
lands that are talked about in the report.

4320
07:09:48,780 --> 07:09:53,100
Well, maybe they'll simply be relocated or reallocated into the town of Milton as part

4321
07:09:53,100 --> 07:09:57,980
of the overall regional supply, those are the kind of trade-offs I think that can occur in

4322
07:09:57,980 --> 07:10:01,760
the development of a preferred growth concept. So hopefully that helps a little bit.

4323
07:10:02,520 --> 07:10:07,240
Well, yeah, it does. I guess what I'm trying to come to terms with is if we,

4324
07:10:08,140 --> 07:10:14,600
if we make a decision today, is there further, I mean, this doesn't go to the province of February

4325
07:10:14,600 --> 07:10:21,640
of 2022? Is there still some back and forth thing that would happen if we get it wrong today?

4326
07:10:21,640 --> 07:10:25,720
and they say, you know, no, that's not enough, Milton, doesn't have enough you need more.

4327
07:10:26,280 --> 07:10:31,760
You know, does it come back to us or are we, you know, drawing a line in the sand saying, you know,

4328
07:10:33,100 --> 07:10:39,900
we're not budging? So I guess, you know, that's what I was trying to get at. Mr. Mayor, I guess

4329
07:10:39,900 --> 07:10:44,240
my question is, there's an amendment on the floor. Are we to speak to the amendment now or is

4330
07:10:44,240 --> 07:10:45,100
Still questions.

4331
07:10:47,220 --> 07:10:51,920
Do you know what I'm being very flexible because it's a very complex issue.

4332
07:10:52,280 --> 07:10:59,960
I'm just letting people speak first-time speakers and ask questions, comments, and then

4333
07:10:59,960 --> 07:11:06,780
after when I'm done speaking, I'll have a talk to the amendment.

4334
07:11:07,100 --> 07:11:11,980
But I think right now, I think everybody is such a complex planning exercise.

4335
07:11:11,980 --> 07:11:17,040
I would, you know, if you want to speak now to the amendment, Councillor, you're welcome

4336
07:11:17,040 --> 07:11:22,460
to, but we still have some first time speakers that are probably going to as many questions

4337
07:11:22,460 --> 07:11:24,940
as what other previous speakers have had.

4338
07:11:27,060 --> 07:11:27,460
Okay.

4339
07:11:29,000 --> 07:11:29,980
Well, all right.

4340
07:11:30,120 --> 07:11:32,220
I do have quite a few comments to make.

4341
07:11:32,380 --> 07:11:37,680
So I will send the floor back to you, Mr. Mayor, and I'll make those if you can put me on

4342
07:11:37,680 --> 07:11:38,540
the next list.

4343
07:11:38,800 --> 07:11:39,080
Okay.

4344
07:11:39,160 --> 07:11:40,580
We would like to the amendment.

4345
07:11:40,600 --> 07:11:41,140
Thank you.

4346
07:11:41,140 --> 07:11:49,720
All right. Thank you. Well, didn't know what Councillor Fogel had made her comments on

4347
07:11:49,720 --> 07:11:54,240
amendment and Councillor Somerville. So if you want to speak to the amendment, go

4348
07:11:54,240 --> 07:11:59,620
right ahead. Okay. Well, and I'll try not to be too verbose.

4349
07:12:00,020 --> 07:12:06,040
But so the first thing I want to say is, you know, and this is nobody's fault around.

4350
07:12:09,460 --> 07:12:09,460
I was

4351
07:12:09,460 --> 07:12:28,860
kitchen table around this zoom screen that we have been asked all of a sudden. We've never had to plan this far out and this provincial government dumped this on us. So it's really not something we've ever had to do before in such a long period of time.

4352
07:12:28,860 --> 07:12:35,360
so it makes it more difficult for all of us and I guess my back is up a little bit that we are

4353
07:12:35,360 --> 07:12:41,980
forced to make decisions for and I won't tell you how old I am but I doubt if I'll be here in 2021

4354
07:12:42,700 --> 07:12:51,780
and I'm making decisions for probably my grandchildren's children that I'm not comfortable with making

4355
07:12:51,780 --> 07:13:08,500
However, I realize we have to, I just want to comment to that George Shown South and I wasn't at the table then, I'm not sure what the end build out period for George Shown South or for counselors might know, but it's still not finished, they're still building houses.

4356
07:13:08,500 --> 07:13:16,960
is north of 10th side road and I'm sure it was probably, you know, at the very latest

4357
07:13:16,960 --> 07:13:20,860
was probably 2011 that that was supposed to be finished because the next thing we did

4358
07:13:20,860 --> 07:13:29,900
is plan for 2021, but anyway, so this isn't going to happen by 2021, probably the 2061

4359
07:13:29,900 --> 07:13:36,820
I think Mr. Lindhart said the 2031 plan won't be built till the end of 2030 so I, you know,

4360
07:13:36,820 --> 07:13:43,120
we can say 2040. So are we planning 30 years out or are we planning 40 years out or even farther?

4361
07:13:43,380 --> 07:13:48,360
So that's that's difficult for me. The councilor Vogel said it well that um

4362
07:13:49,000 --> 07:13:57,080
oh shoot my battery's going out. Um if I if you lose me I'll I'll come in on another um another

4363
07:13:58,900 --> 07:14:04,120
thing just plugged in but anyway can you still hear me?

4364
07:14:04,120 --> 07:14:04,700
Okay.

4365
07:14:04,700 --> 07:14:05,880
Yes, we can, Councillor.

4366
07:14:06,160 --> 07:14:06,500
Okay.

4367
07:14:07,460 --> 07:14:09,160
All right.

4368
07:14:09,440 --> 07:14:12,060
So I lost my point.

4369
07:14:12,240 --> 07:14:15,420
Anyway, the other issue, of course, and we all know we're in the middle of the pandemic.

4370
07:14:15,620 --> 07:14:22,040
So this has been very, very difficult, especially for the public, because usually we do major

4371
07:14:22,040 --> 07:14:28,740
public comments and opportunities for the public to comment.

4372
07:14:29,000 --> 07:14:34,100
So that's been difficult, and I do want to thank the Councillor who did get involved

4373
07:14:34,100 --> 07:14:40,660
and got information out to the public, so they did have a chance to be part of this.

4374
07:14:40,840 --> 07:14:46,720
It was another way to do it, because we were in a pandemic, so that's actually a good thing.

4375
07:14:49,080 --> 07:14:57,720
Anyway, my first choice when I read this was with 3B, I think we can wait and decide our growth

4376
07:14:57,720 --> 07:14:59,500
in the future. However, I think

4377
07:15:00,000 --> 07:15:06,740
Mr. Fogel it's failed with the amendment to add copyright any meanings. I'm talking an a

4378
07:15:06,740 --> 07:15:11,040
cry to have in fact, he found is

4379
07:15:11,040 --> 07:15:11,160
the.

4380
07:15:18,680 --> 07:15:23,520
And what will the end result be. So again I don't.

4381
07:15:23,520 --> 07:15:26,000
I don't think there's any rush to put in any more land than that.

4382
07:15:26,260 --> 07:15:32,960
The 500 acres will certainly accommodate a hospital, park land, lots of housing choices

4383
07:15:32,960 --> 07:15:39,120
and still I think with Milton putting a lot of land in it will meet the needs of the

4384
07:15:39,120 --> 07:15:39,400
region.

4385
07:15:39,660 --> 07:15:41,080
So I'm going to be supporting that.

4386
07:15:42,720 --> 07:15:48,520
I think we all have looked at ourselves in what kind of community we want to live in.

4387
07:15:48,520 --> 07:15:55,500
I think we've all looked east and south to determine that that's not a kind of community

4388
07:15:55,500 --> 07:15:56,360
we want to live in.

4389
07:15:56,440 --> 07:16:00,780
We hear every day about people moving here because they want to get out of and I won't

4390
07:16:00,780 --> 07:16:05,500
mention the community's names, but I think you know where I'm talking about the sprawl

4391
07:16:05,500 --> 07:16:10,300
and the congestion is too much and people love it when they move here.

4392
07:16:10,420 --> 07:16:17,440
So I know we can't keep it like that forever, but what we have to the south and the east definitely

4393
07:16:17,440 --> 07:16:24,960
we is sprawl and I know with adding, you know, another 2,000 acres or however many we decide

4394
07:16:24,960 --> 07:16:28,740
on will be sprawl because we already have sprawl.

4395
07:16:29,140 --> 07:16:32,400
If you just have to look at Georgetown south, it's not a walkable community.

4396
07:16:32,640 --> 07:16:34,780
Yes people can walk but where are they walking to?

4397
07:16:35,720 --> 07:16:40,340
It's not a community where they can get what they need within walking distance.

4398
07:16:40,340 --> 07:16:48,980
So, and, you know, I know a lot of you have grown up in acting in Georgetown, small towns

4399
07:16:48,980 --> 07:16:57,760
and, but the additional growth that we've had in, well, acting too, but also Georgetown

4400
07:16:57,760 --> 07:16:59,260
is sprawl.

4401
07:16:59,320 --> 07:17:02,140
It's not built around a core, like the downtowns.

4402
07:17:02,780 --> 07:17:08,200
I grew up in Toronto in a neighborhood that was very dense and so I know what it was like

4403
07:17:08,200 --> 07:17:13,720
to be able to walk everywhere and hop on a bus to get where I needed to go and and our parents

4404
07:17:14,320 --> 07:17:20,120
did the same. We only had one car and then when I was at older, we moved to North York,

4405
07:17:20,120 --> 07:17:27,580
which was like a wasteland. There was nothing within walking distance. So I really have experienced

4406
07:17:27,580 --> 07:17:31,940
the difference and that's why I love living in downtown Georgetown where I can walk. So

4407
07:17:31,940 --> 07:17:38,280
So I think we've been, people have been clear, a lot of people have been clear that too

4408
07:17:38,280 --> 07:17:39,800
much for all is not a good thing.

4409
07:17:40,680 --> 07:17:45,880
And for many reasons, climate change being the first one, but also just walkability

4410
07:17:45,880 --> 07:17:50,860
if people don't have nowhere to walk to, they get in their car and go and then we all know

4411
07:17:50,860 --> 07:17:55,360
about obesity and heart disease and so on and people don't get enough exercise.

4412
07:17:57,300 --> 07:18:01,800
And I think it's great news about the zero emission housing, but that's not, that doesn't

4413
07:18:01,800 --> 07:18:05,640
solve the problem of people having to get in their car, even if it is a battery car,

4414
07:18:05,920 --> 07:18:09,800
you're not walking to go and get what they need because it's not close by.

4415
07:18:10,080 --> 07:18:15,720
So we tried to plan a walkable community in Vision Georgetown.

4416
07:18:15,760 --> 07:18:19,120
It's at the Ontario Land Tribunal who knows what we'll end up with.

4417
07:18:19,300 --> 07:18:22,560
So again, we don't have the say that we think we do.

4418
07:18:23,200 --> 07:18:28,260
I think we can do a lot of gentle densification in our built-up areas without anyone reacting

4419
07:18:28,260 --> 07:18:28,880
to it.

4420
07:18:28,880 --> 07:18:33,580
basement apartments come to mind. I know that's not counted. It's ground level housing,

4421
07:18:33,720 --> 07:18:38,140
but it can accommodate a whole lot of people. And with the price of housing, I bet you're

4422
07:18:38,140 --> 07:18:43,260
going to see a lot more people wanting to convert their basement, so our part of their

4423
07:18:43,260 --> 07:18:47,940
house, baby boomers, maybe don't want to go to long-term care right now because of what's

4424
07:18:47,940 --> 07:18:53,560
happening, so they may want to take in a range, you know, make arrangements with their

4425
07:18:53,560 --> 07:18:58,060
house to accommodate more people. We've heard of lots of examples of seniors moving in

4426
07:18:58,060 --> 07:19:03,780
together and sharing expenses in the house so that they don't have to go into long-term care.

4427
07:19:04,940 --> 07:19:10,600
So there's lots of options and although I would prefer to see no residential growth,

4428
07:19:10,900 --> 07:19:18,500
I will support the small expansion to accommodate the hospital, which I think is badly needed.

4429
07:19:18,500 --> 07:19:24,540
I know that's what they want. And I just hope that when we plan the new area, when we get around

4430
07:19:24,540 --> 07:19:32,200
to that, if it's on our table, that we hope to plan it so that it is more livable and

4431
07:19:32,200 --> 07:19:38,800
walkable, and so on. I just want to mention about the farms, the farmers. I looked to the

4432
07:19:39,340 --> 07:19:45,200
organizations that represented large groups of farmers, and I know they have a different opinion

4433
07:19:45,200 --> 07:19:49,960
and then maybe anecdotal other people that spoke

4434
07:19:49,960 --> 07:19:53,660
one on about one farm or whatever.

4435
07:19:54,000 --> 07:19:56,340
And I think we do recognize that the farms

4436
07:19:56,340 --> 07:19:59,480
and the white belts are probably not owned by farmers.

4437
07:19:59,820 --> 07:20:01,720
And maybe their ideas are different

4438
07:20:01,720 --> 07:20:03,520
about what's practical or not.

4439
07:20:03,660 --> 07:20:05,180
But it is class one farmland.

4440
07:20:05,580 --> 07:20:08,680
I think we have to do everything we can to protect that,

4441
07:20:08,860 --> 07:20:11,420
whether we grow wheat on it and send it somewhere else

4442
07:20:11,420 --> 07:20:14,160
in the world, it's still feeding people or animals

4443
07:20:14,160 --> 07:20:21,240
that people then eat. So we have to be able to look at way in the future what might be needed

4444
07:20:21,240 --> 07:20:25,440
to grow the food that we need to eat. And we can eat wheat too. We can eat soybeans.

4445
07:20:27,000 --> 07:20:31,580
You know, we're not sure what's going to happen with the extent of climate change.

4446
07:20:32,040 --> 07:20:38,400
So I'm going to stop there, Mr. Mayor. I will support the amendment. If Councilor Fogel is reconsidering

4447
07:20:38,400 --> 07:20:44,780
the employment lands. I'd be happy to consider a small expansion there, but at this point,

4448
07:20:44,780 --> 07:20:51,700
I'll stick with her amendment. Thanks so much. Thank you, Councillor. Next up, Councillor

4449
07:20:51,700 --> 07:21:02,920
Olbe. Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Well, there's a lot of information today from the delegation

4450
07:21:02,920 --> 07:21:08,820
and from staff. And one of the things I kept hearing repeatedly about is that, about

4451
07:21:08,820 --> 07:21:14,760
employment land cannot be added in the inclusion after 2021 is not correct. I mean,

4452
07:21:15,180 --> 07:21:15,800
did I hear that correct?

4453
07:21:18,770 --> 07:21:19,730
It's a question.

4454
07:21:20,650 --> 07:21:25,750
Yes. Through the Mayor to Councillor Elbano, again, our read of the situation is that once

4455
07:21:26,250 --> 07:21:30,990
the region finalizes its growth strategy and the regional official plan amendment, they

4456
07:21:30,990 --> 07:21:38,050
will be locking in, if you will, growth to the 2021 planning horizon including any additional

4457
07:21:38,050 --> 07:21:44,550
urban lands and that any subsequent review would be likely looking at or will be looking

4458
07:21:44,550 --> 07:21:46,890
at post-2051 growth.

4459
07:21:47,210 --> 07:21:53,210
So I know that's challenging just in terms of the year we're in now, but that's generally

4460
07:21:53,210 --> 07:21:54,210
how these things work.

4461
07:21:54,350 --> 07:22:00,650
It's a long lead time and it's all the various steps that have to follow and train to actually

4462
07:22:00,650 --> 07:22:04,450
get lands to be serviced and development ready. So hopefully that helps.

4463
07:22:05,370 --> 07:22:16,390
Yes it does. So today we heard a lot about option two and three B from delegation.

4464
07:22:18,590 --> 07:22:25,530
It only hurt that option two is supported and that option two gives the modest

4465
07:22:25,530 --> 07:22:34,650
expansion to the urban boundary, and that also gives a modest expansion. It's required for

4466
07:22:34,650 --> 07:22:41,950
our town facilities like hospitals and parks. We also heard that intensification is very

4467
07:22:42,490 --> 07:22:50,930
complicated and comes with challenges with roads and parks and storm sewers and so on.

4468
07:22:50,930 --> 07:22:56,690
Option 3B will not give us employment land expansion.

4469
07:22:57,470 --> 07:23:03,350
This will result to more commuting from Halton Hills residents outside of our community.

4470
07:23:04,170 --> 07:23:07,630
And this will increase climate change and climate change will be brought up.

4471
07:23:09,070 --> 07:23:10,910
Dozens of times today.

4472
07:23:10,910 --> 07:23:18,870
And you know, and it was interesting to see the stats that 42 percent commute outside

4473
07:23:18,870 --> 07:23:19,810
of HALT and Hills.

4474
07:23:20,730 --> 07:23:24,250
If we do not have employment land within HALT and Hills,

4475
07:23:24,730 --> 07:23:33,070
commuters will be going out outside HALT and this will increase climate change, in my opinion.

4476
07:23:34,710 --> 07:23:40,690
The other thing is that expended residential employment bondry provides fiscal benefits

4477
07:23:40,690 --> 07:23:50,670
and offsets all or most of the taxes that would be increased, so option 3B will not do that.

4478
07:23:51,730 --> 07:23:59,390
We also heard from the farming community how difficult it is to run a farm today due to soil

4479
07:23:59,390 --> 07:24:09,950
issues labor is not available using more fertilizer because lack of manure water is is not great and

4480
07:24:09,950 --> 07:24:17,830
if there is water it's either too much or not enough and it was interesting to hear from the

4481
07:24:17,830 --> 07:24:25,650
farming community that we also heard the crop production has increased using less land leaving

4482
07:24:25,650 --> 07:24:29,470
even more land available for, I suppose, development

4483
07:24:29,470 --> 07:24:30,990
or for whatever other reasons.

4484
07:24:31,910 --> 07:24:34,390
It was also stated that farmers will not run

4485
07:24:34,390 --> 07:24:36,290
our farmland on current development.

4486
07:24:37,250 --> 07:24:40,290
Farmers and developers both have adopted

4487
07:24:40,290 --> 07:24:43,230
to do more with less land.

4488
07:24:44,470 --> 07:24:48,910
We also talked about the new hospital,

4489
07:24:48,910 --> 07:24:53,270
that the anticipation of a building in New Hospital.

4490
07:24:53,270 --> 07:25:01,930
So we don't have the acreage as it current stands in the urban boundary to build the hospital.

4491
07:25:03,130 --> 07:25:10,290
And the land or the hospital that is there now, we cannot add to that hospital because

4492
07:25:10,290 --> 07:25:11,470
it's just not suitable.

4493
07:25:12,590 --> 07:25:20,230
The other concerns that we don't do the expansion is what impact will it have on affordable

4494
07:25:20,230 --> 07:25:26,410
housing and perhaps senior housing as well if we don't have a land to build and to make that happen.

4495
07:25:27,170 --> 07:25:34,270
The other thing that comes to mind is the wrecks and parks are indicated that with these

4496
07:25:34,270 --> 07:25:44,610
anticipated population growth, we would need more park lands to based on our current town standards.

4497
07:25:44,610 --> 07:25:50,270
As I indicated in the park and land and position study, talent needs to look outside the current

4498
07:25:50,270 --> 07:25:57,550
urban boundaries in order to acquire and construct suitable park land to meet the community's

4499
07:25:57,550 --> 07:25:57,830
needs.

4500
07:25:58,950 --> 07:26:05,410
If intensification were to take place, where would recreation act of transportation take place

4501
07:26:05,410 --> 07:26:07,650
without parks and recreation land?

4502
07:26:08,650 --> 07:26:13,390
We only have two choices, use the white or green belt in.

4503
07:26:15,070 --> 07:26:20,730
I will not be supporting option 3B, and I will not be supporting the amendment as well.

4504
07:26:21,450 --> 07:26:22,090
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

4505
07:26:23,330 --> 07:26:24,270
Thank you, Councilor.

4506
07:26:28,040 --> 07:26:29,720
Well, I thank you, Mr. Mayor.

4507
07:26:30,280 --> 07:26:33,020
And whatever I'm last or not, it really doesn't matter.

4508
07:26:33,360 --> 07:26:39,580
I appreciate the opportunity to take all of the papers that I have on my desk and try to make sense out of them.

4509
07:26:39,580 --> 07:26:45,000
and I will say this. There's a couple of things that I like just to mention right up at the start.

4510
07:26:45,840 --> 07:26:51,340
We have received, council should have received two letters, one from VIPACS limited, a farm,

4511
07:26:51,620 --> 07:26:56,880
a very active significant farm within our community. That was sent in, no references made to it.

4512
07:26:56,960 --> 07:27:02,340
Today's I like to make sure that it is part of our record. And also we have a letter that came in from

4513
07:27:03,440 --> 07:27:09,060
Mr. Brander, farmer of longtime standing on Winston Churchill. That letter was sent in,

4514
07:27:09,060 --> 07:27:15,860
So I just want to make sure that both of those have become available and part of anything that we're doing going forward so having said that

4515
07:27:15,860 --> 07:27:18,600
That would be my my first concern

4516
07:27:20,120 --> 07:27:24,040
This might be the opportunity for myself and council for to agree and

4517
07:27:25,440 --> 07:27:31,440
An only fact is to use the terminology split council and I would have to say this in 21 years of council

4518
07:27:31,440 --> 07:27:35,720
I don't know of any other time when I felt the need to put on a strafe shirt on the whistle

4519
07:27:35,720 --> 07:27:37,760
and perhaps get law and order back in place.

4520
07:27:38,460 --> 07:27:40,300
And I look at it here and saying, okay,

4521
07:27:42,060 --> 07:27:44,460
and maybe I haven't been a good corporate citizen

4522
07:27:44,460 --> 07:27:46,880
for what's going on, but I care for the people

4523
07:27:46,880 --> 07:27:48,380
in the community I represent.

4524
07:27:48,920 --> 07:27:50,040
I grew up in this town.

4525
07:27:50,820 --> 07:27:52,880
When I grew up the end of the street

4526
07:27:52,880 --> 07:27:54,340
that I lived on was the end of town,

4527
07:27:54,980 --> 07:27:57,840
and I've been very active and still try to maintain,

4528
07:27:59,180 --> 07:28:02,660
I'll say, family ties and active within the community.

4529
07:28:02,660 --> 07:28:09,200
the split council part bothers me and and again I think and I hope at the end here that I can

4530
07:28:09,200 --> 07:28:16,420
perhaps find something that says use the terminology in spirit of compromise and not just go

4531
07:28:16,420 --> 07:28:26,140
in the direction of perhaps will be an ask to go. From my notes, allow me to to say first of all,

4532
07:28:28,040 --> 07:28:33,120
do you use the terminology? Oh, I should know I should back up a little. I want to thank the 93

4533
07:28:33,120 --> 07:28:38,800
people that sent me an email. And I really feel sorry for those people who got this information

4534
07:28:38,800 --> 07:28:43,620
they put in there, which then diminishes the concern relative to that email. And I make

4535
07:28:43,620 --> 07:28:50,140
reference to the farmland terminology and the years relative to review terminology.

4536
07:28:50,980 --> 07:28:56,900
Both are wrong. And I think should be corrected. And I should get 93 emails back to be saying,

4537
07:28:56,900 --> 07:29:03,320
Okay, this is, it's a different, I want to say that the public was misled and I'd be so bold

4538
07:29:03,320 --> 07:29:06,940
as to say that, and that just fits into the split council attitude.

4539
07:29:09,370 --> 07:29:11,810
Looking up, it's easy to say no.

4540
07:29:13,190 --> 07:29:18,450
My homework tells me that no is the 84th most list of the most used words.

4541
07:29:18,770 --> 07:29:19,590
So, way to go.

4542
07:29:19,730 --> 07:29:21,290
We're saying here, let's say no.

4543
07:29:21,910 --> 07:29:23,550
Stop is number 250.

4544
07:29:23,550 --> 07:29:29,110
50. I think the people that brought us the first information, I'm June the 21st, my

4545
07:29:29,110 --> 07:29:35,910
Paul Lowe's, and again today, to address sprawl. That's a bad term. And if you really look

4546
07:29:35,910 --> 07:29:39,650
out, but I could get your definition of urban sprawl, can be defined as urban development,

4547
07:29:39,830 --> 07:29:44,830
low density housing and on and on and on. But I thought that Paul Lowe's gave us the

4548
07:29:44,830 --> 07:29:52,610
haphazard low density, intermixed rural and urban, and he says, this is not sprawl. I think

4549
07:29:52,610 --> 07:29:56,510
we should respect his opinion and not use that anymore when we're trying to

4550
07:29:56,510 --> 07:29:59,570
sit here and say, what's the right thing for our town? The people

4551
07:30:01,080 --> 07:30:29,260
And so now instead of having two or three homes come down, we may have more of that come down wide to put up a high-rise building because we have to condense and jam people into an area that really was not designed for people to have that amount of growth in those areas. And those are areas I hung out with as a kid. And areas that would come and cheat comment, maybe the fairground should be sold so we can put in high-rise buildings all the way around the track. And then they can play in the middle.

4552
07:30:29,260 --> 07:30:33,400
So that's how silly that some of the thought process can get and I don't advocate that.

4553
07:30:34,020 --> 07:30:38,800
But when we look at the amount of apartments that we have to put in, I think we need to

4554
07:30:38,800 --> 07:30:43,180
have another plan, another plan D, and perhaps in the spirit of compromise.

4555
07:30:44,120 --> 07:30:48,440
I don't want this, my comments to be all about the farming community, but we've made reference

4556
07:30:48,440 --> 07:30:48,760
to it.

4557
07:30:48,780 --> 07:30:55,400
I say we, some of us who represent the rural environment, have been out and in the farms and I have said

4558
07:30:55,400 --> 07:31:00,860
to different people that have written. Please be real. Go out into the countryside of the areas

4559
07:31:00,860 --> 07:31:06,140
we're talking about. I will take you tomorrow on a tour of Show You Four Farms. The buildings are

4560
07:31:06,140 --> 07:31:11,460
down. The houses are gone. And if we think that we're going to sit here and continue to say you

4561
07:31:11,460 --> 07:31:18,460
must, you shall, you have to, we're fooling ourselves if you are not going to. It was meant

4562
07:31:18,460 --> 07:31:22,660
reference today by one farmer who does a gate that's across the thing, across the driveway,

4563
07:31:22,660 --> 07:31:24,860
the chain is on, they're gone, they've moved.

4564
07:31:25,500 --> 07:31:27,880
The terminology was, they were using and milking,

4565
07:31:28,020 --> 07:31:31,180
I believe the number was at that time, 40 cattle.

4566
07:31:31,820 --> 07:31:34,720
They'd left here and they're doing twice as much work

4567
07:31:34,720 --> 07:31:36,120
and getting twice as much money

4568
07:31:36,120 --> 07:31:38,000
by working out of farm someplace else.

4569
07:31:38,380 --> 07:31:39,840
The farm isn't working.

4570
07:31:40,420 --> 07:31:41,240
The land is working.

4571
07:31:41,440 --> 07:31:43,700
I stood in man's backyard the other day on five side

4572
07:31:43,700 --> 07:31:45,060
or they looked at a field, he said to me,

4573
07:31:45,400 --> 07:31:46,840
that field has been fellal for,

4574
07:31:47,140 --> 07:31:48,840
I don't know what he said, 10 years or more.

4575
07:31:49,400 --> 07:31:50,580
That means it's not plowed.

4576
07:31:50,860 --> 07:31:52,020
It's not hard, not harvested.

4577
07:31:52,020 --> 07:31:54,160
there's no crops, it's not cultivated.

4578
07:31:55,280 --> 07:31:59,900
So I think if we, and this is when I'm saying it, we have to be real to go out there and

4579
07:31:59,900 --> 07:32:04,420
see what is going on and not just live off the words of different people.

4580
07:32:04,760 --> 07:32:09,720
Yes, we had some farmer's today that were very concerned and as I think Councillor

4581
07:32:09,720 --> 07:32:12,300
Summergold, the guy pulled on as well, put as well.

4582
07:32:12,540 --> 07:32:16,200
You wouldn't wash your feet in the water, it was so bad, all right?

4583
07:32:16,440 --> 07:32:18,940
That's what he has to deal with and he has to work his way around it.

4584
07:32:18,940 --> 07:32:26,340
You got to tell him, you got to keep all I'm saying is we have to be real pleased to

4585
07:32:26,340 --> 07:32:28,040
some of these concerns and some of these issues.

4586
07:32:28,480 --> 07:32:34,940
I am not a spokesperson on behalf of developers, some of them are ruthless, I don't like

4587
07:32:34,940 --> 07:32:38,180
what they did in vision of Georgetown, and I would tell them that.

4588
07:32:38,800 --> 07:32:43,880
But I think at the end of the day here, to simply continue to use that word, no, is not

4589
07:32:43,880 --> 07:32:47,360
not necessarily the right thing to do when they're perhaps.

4590
07:32:47,780 --> 07:32:50,680
I will not support the amendment that's on the floor.

4591
07:32:51,240 --> 07:32:56,120
And some of the reasons are, we're about to, way to go, come on into our town, we need

4592
07:32:56,120 --> 07:32:59,340
another 30,000 people, come on in, but we don't have a place for you to go to work.

4593
07:33:00,820 --> 07:33:05,900
So therefore, as much as we talk about climate change, and I am as much concerned about climate

4594
07:33:05,900 --> 07:33:08,660
change for me and my family, is anybody is.

4595
07:33:09,140 --> 07:33:11,200
But now we say, well, you can't work in Georgetown.

4596
07:33:11,200 --> 07:33:14,000
So you know what, you get in a car and go to wherever.

4597
07:33:14,560 --> 07:33:16,520
I will load the day in very upset

4598
07:33:16,520 --> 07:33:18,960
and was raised today already by somebody by saying here,

4599
07:33:19,280 --> 07:33:22,240
we have loyal employers in town

4600
07:33:22,240 --> 07:33:24,200
who couldn't find what they wanted

4601
07:33:24,640 --> 07:33:26,440
and they went to our friends to the south.

4602
07:33:27,520 --> 07:33:28,080
Something's wrong.

4603
07:33:28,680 --> 07:33:31,800
So I simply say here is that if we went through

4604
07:33:34,140 --> 07:33:36,000
somebody, I'll say, I want to go back

4605
07:33:36,000 --> 07:33:37,000
in the farming community.

4606
07:33:37,600 --> 07:33:40,680
You may believe research farm that was on Trafalgar Road.

4607
07:33:40,980 --> 07:33:41,500
It's not anymore.

4608
07:33:41,620 --> 07:33:42,040
It's an isolate.

4609
07:33:42,780 --> 07:33:46,760
When we talked to farmers today, they said, okay, if we had a chance, all of us got

4610
07:33:46,760 --> 07:33:48,980
together and we threw in a hundred dollars, we're going to buy a farm.

4611
07:33:49,280 --> 07:33:50,120
What do we have to do?

4612
07:33:50,520 --> 07:33:54,000
You have to deal with a Canadian government, province of Ontario, region of Halt and town of

4613
07:33:54,000 --> 07:33:57,920
Halt and Hills, conservation authorities, the Green Belt, Niagara Skirmic, natural heritage

4614
07:33:57,920 --> 07:34:01,600
features, impact, department of agriculture.

4615
07:34:02,100 --> 07:34:03,240
You have to make sure you get crop insurance.

4616
07:34:03,500 --> 07:34:04,340
You have to get fire insurance.

4617
07:34:04,340 --> 07:34:09,000
She did it like this my field powder range. Can I put bile salts on it? Where do I store my crops?

4618
07:34:09,000 --> 07:34:14,860
Where can I buy equipment? Can I buy seed and fertilizer? And perhaps once my hogs are ready to

4619
07:34:14,860 --> 07:34:20,060
go to market the U.S. government says, no, you can't shut them across the border. And we're telling that guy,

4620
07:34:20,240 --> 07:34:27,260
you've got to be a farmer. Please, we have to be realistic in terms of outside our community.

4621
07:34:27,840 --> 07:34:34,100
We have we've taken farmland. What's the level of it? I have no idea. It's now a cemetery.

4622
07:34:34,340 --> 07:34:42,080
So we got there. We now have a really good park out in the country. We got there and we have

4623
07:34:42,580 --> 07:34:47,620
coming up soon is the Hornby Police Station. We got there. And then now we're talking about

4624
07:34:47,620 --> 07:34:53,440
such things as hospital, so there are reasons why that it doesn't have to be all industrial.

4625
07:34:53,760 --> 07:34:59,320
It has to be realistic for some of the stuff. Do we need another 1,000 acres like the Vision

4626
07:34:59,320 --> 07:35:01,800
and you're saying, no, maybe not, maybe half.

4627
07:35:02,560 --> 07:35:04,440
If you look at the industrial land coming up

4628
07:35:04,440 --> 07:35:05,920
from Steel's Avenue coming north,

4629
07:35:06,100 --> 07:35:08,100
it's been done by lots, numbers.

4630
07:35:08,640 --> 07:35:11,020
It hasn't been an entire concession yet

4631
07:35:11,020 --> 07:35:12,300
and anything that we've done.

4632
07:35:12,880 --> 07:35:14,440
So we've proven that we could do it

4633
07:35:14,440 --> 07:35:16,240
in a very reasonable manner.

4634
07:35:16,840 --> 07:35:19,320
And I would advocate, we need some industrial growth

4635
07:35:19,320 --> 07:35:20,160
absolutely.

4636
07:35:20,720 --> 07:35:23,080
It helps the offset tax costs going forward.

4637
07:35:23,400 --> 07:35:26,740
Because right now, we got to tell the public here

4638
07:35:26,740 --> 07:35:32,580
that we're looking at transportation in the tune of millions of dollars, right?

4639
07:35:32,820 --> 07:35:35,440
Right now, that's on the shoulders of all the people living in town.

4640
07:35:35,580 --> 07:35:38,200
Whether you use a bus or not, that's on your shoulders.

4641
07:35:38,860 --> 07:35:45,580
So perhaps some industrial growth, some residential growth in a limited, reasonable manner would

4642
07:35:45,580 --> 07:35:45,900
work.

4643
07:35:46,460 --> 07:35:53,320
For all of those reasons, I'm simply saying, I don't like the terminology, split council,

4644
07:35:54,540 --> 07:36:08,580
But I just cannot take it for what it is today in the amendment, so I don't want to say I'm sorry, but I'll simply say I cannot support the amendment based on the way it's written right now.

4645
07:36:09,120 --> 07:36:09,640
Thanks, Mr. Mayor.

4646
07:36:11,060 --> 07:36:38,440
Thank you, Councillor. I'm going to speak now because I think everybody's spoken at least once and first of all, I'd like to thank Councillor Fogel because if it wasn't for Councillor Fogel, pushing and actually brought a resolution to the region to look at a fifth concept which was 3B and I seconded out motion because I want to see what it would look like.

4647
07:36:38,440 --> 07:36:47,560
three B. What will that community look like with zero growth? And I think that's doing our due diligence so we got the report.

4648
07:36:48,580 --> 07:36:54,440
And staff have done the analysis and all the growth plans and are recommending the modest growth of concept two.

4649
07:36:55,380 --> 07:37:03,400
Earlier today, Councillor Hurts spoke about the need of the hospital and has to die. But when you look at concept two,

4650
07:37:03,400 --> 07:37:12,040
We will still have, let me back up, 60% of halton hills is protected by the green belt

4651
07:37:12,040 --> 07:37:15,440
or the Niagara Scarpment at 60%.

4652
07:37:17,020 --> 07:37:23,960
The weight belt, even with concept 2, which is the modest growth plan and thank goodness

4653
07:37:23,960 --> 07:37:31,260
staff didn't look at one and four, et cetera, will still have 87% of the weight belt remaining.

4654
07:37:32,280 --> 07:37:37,960
We've done a lot of, we've done a very robust plan for economic development.

4655
07:37:38,540 --> 07:37:41,840
We've got the foreign direct investments, we've got other strategies.

4656
07:37:42,680 --> 07:37:48,860
The Watson report, they said in their report there's a demand for employment lands

4657
07:37:48,860 --> 07:37:52,180
over the next 22 years exceeds the supply.

4658
07:37:52,900 --> 07:37:55,300
22 years exceeds the supply.

4659
07:37:55,300 --> 07:38:00,780
A few of the councilors, councilor O'Bano and I think councilor Lewis had mentioned 42%

4660
07:38:00,780 --> 07:38:08,120
of the labor force and Holt & Hales commutes compared to 12% of the Ontario average.

4661
07:38:08,680 --> 07:38:10,540
So we want to have jobs in our community.

4662
07:38:10,880 --> 07:38:13,000
We want to, so I think that's important.

4663
07:38:15,300 --> 07:38:21,120
Increased employment lands provides a live work opportunities for people coming in.

4664
07:38:22,140 --> 07:38:27,920
And again, that reduces the commute, reduces the climate change.

4665
07:38:29,080 --> 07:38:33,220
We know we need more parks for post-2031.

4666
07:38:33,740 --> 07:38:39,660
We heard from our consultants that apartments create even more need for park space.

4667
07:38:40,540 --> 07:38:44,460
Well, as a few of the previous speakers said, it's going to be very difficult adding more

4668
07:38:44,460 --> 07:38:46,120
apartments in with young families.

4669
07:38:46,120 --> 07:38:52,760
Just for an example, I met with Mayor Krantz from Milton and his staff to go over their growth plan.

4670
07:38:53,420 --> 07:39:00,260
The average age in Milton right now is 35 years old, so they need parks, etc.

4671
07:39:00,640 --> 07:39:07,560
Well down the road we could be in the same boat. Townwide parks will need to be located outside the urban boundary.

4672
07:39:08,500 --> 07:39:11,200
Nobody's touched about immigration.

4673
07:39:11,840 --> 07:39:24,680
But immigration, Canada will be taking in 300,000 or more a year till who knows how long there's got to be a place to put them to put our new Canadians

4674
07:39:25,060 --> 07:39:32,020
whether and they're not all going to be in Toronto and if they, you know, it's going to be throughout the GTA.

4675
07:39:32,560 --> 07:39:33,980
It's going to be throughout the GTA.

4676
07:39:33,980 --> 07:39:40,440
So we have to look at that. The other is what the staff have come up with and I appreciate

4677
07:39:40,440 --> 07:39:47,340
Councilor Fogal putting an amendment on. But I can't support zero industrial growth.

4678
07:39:48,100 --> 07:39:55,260
And if you read Harry Brander's letter, Farmed for 46 years, he's got rid of his cattle.

4679
07:39:55,620 --> 07:40:00,380
The soil samples aren't good. And we've heard that from the two word Councillors with the

4680
07:40:00,380 --> 07:40:07,420
farm and community they went out the last couple of days and every one of them says you know how

4681
07:40:07,420 --> 07:40:16,320
it's changed and how the soil samples are wells etc. due to salt and other conditions are not

4682
07:40:16,320 --> 07:40:26,220
are not that perfect. What staff are proposed here was if you remember vision George

4683
07:40:26,220 --> 07:40:33,740
out of the 1,000 acres. Well, this is further reduced to 815 acres. If it gets reduced

4684
07:40:33,740 --> 07:40:40,100
more, fine, but they still have to have that industrial base. I remember when I first

4685
07:40:40,100 --> 07:40:49,440
got elected in 2003 as mayor, our industrial base was like 7.5% commercial industrial.

4686
07:40:50,280 --> 07:40:56,200
Then I remember Councillor Lawler got elected. It was about 8.5% and Councillor Bingham

4687
07:40:56,200 --> 07:40:59,660
they're inquisitive, what are we doing to try to increase their industrial base?

4688
07:41:00,320 --> 07:41:03,980
And I had about eight different comments of what we've been doing.

4689
07:41:04,180 --> 07:41:10,260
And now I think for the last report we had, we're 13 or 14 percent, we're gradually creeping

4690
07:41:10,260 --> 07:41:13,100
up, which is good news.

4691
07:41:13,800 --> 07:41:23,240
But if we don't have any growth, in Milton's looking, Milton's looking by 2051, to be 358,000

4692
07:41:23,240 --> 07:41:33,160
population, 358,000. I wouldn't want to see us being the poor cousin of halton region.

4693
07:41:34,000 --> 07:41:39,640
And who knows how the representation we've already had the threat by the premier Ford,

4694
07:41:39,840 --> 07:41:45,960
the beginning of this, a fifth tenure as premier, about looking at the city of halton,

4695
07:41:46,380 --> 07:41:50,480
amalgamation, et cetera. Well, down the road, that's going to come by again, it happened

4696
07:41:50,480 --> 07:41:55,900
20 years ago, as well, there is a threat, oddly enough, under another conservative

4697
07:41:55,900 --> 07:42:05,420
premier. My carous and causal, that was back in around 2002, 2001. So that could happen

4698
07:42:05,420 --> 07:42:10,760
again. And if we are, then the Alton Hills will really lose your autonomy. We'll end up

4699
07:42:10,760 --> 07:42:17,520
being a subdivision to what Milton's going to be if they get up to 358,000 population.

4700
07:42:17,520 --> 07:42:21,680
And that's their vision, I'm not going to criticize Milton, if that's what they think.

4701
07:42:22,280 --> 07:42:28,400
They need, while they're elected representatives, today and their staff, they're the ones

4702
07:42:28,400 --> 07:42:31,360
that have to answer their constituents, so I leave that up to them.

4703
07:42:32,000 --> 07:42:39,420
So I have a real concern with having no industrial growth whatsoever.

4704
07:42:40,320 --> 07:42:44,900
Our staff are experts, they're the ones that are looking at it.

4705
07:42:44,900 --> 07:42:51,120
they have listened to us in many ways through conversations and through workshops you know that we

4706
07:42:51,120 --> 07:43:00,220
don't want to be built out but again with the concept too we still we'll still have 87% of the

4707
07:43:00,220 --> 07:43:07,480
white belt remaining. The last comment I'll make or a couple comments is when we went through this

4708
07:43:07,480 --> 07:43:14,740
exercise before there is a concern that we weren't going to take in a thousand acres but we

4709
07:43:14,740 --> 07:43:19,920
wanted more industrial growth and I don't know how many of you remembered that and the

4710
07:43:19,920 --> 07:43:26,060
province said at the time you're asking for fire too much industrial growth for what

4711
07:43:26,060 --> 07:43:31,880
you're willing to put in for residential and that was an issue back then.

4712
07:43:32,500 --> 07:43:38,060
And I can remember every time we looked at a growth plan and I'm sure every elected official

4713
07:43:38,060 --> 07:43:44,660
around this table in over past years must have heard because I used to hear a lot

4714
07:43:44,660 --> 07:43:50,680
from people saying I want houses that my kids can stay in this town and buy a

4715
07:43:50,680 --> 07:43:55,040
house in this town. So you need those options whether their townhouse is

4716
07:43:55,040 --> 07:44:03,460
apartments and and it's the shortest of apartments. So I can't support amendment as it

4717
07:44:03,460 --> 07:44:10,480
is. I think we just might end up being the poor cousins, you know, to the region. And

4718
07:44:10,480 --> 07:44:15,140
I got a real concern about that. And you know, if we do need the jobs, and like I said,

4719
07:44:15,900 --> 07:44:23,460
we have a whole, we had a whole report last month of all the economic development programs

4720
07:44:23,460 --> 07:44:31,980
that are putting forth. Well, we may still try to use them to increase that industrial base

4721
07:44:31,980 --> 07:44:38,120
that we have. So that's it for me and I see Councillor Hearst has his hand up as the second

4722
07:44:38,120 --> 07:44:39,840
time speaker. So Councillor Hearst.

4723
07:44:43,320 --> 07:44:46,580
Thank you Mr. Mayor and in reality I think this

4724
07:44:46,580 --> 07:44:51,500
is my first time because my first comments I think were just to clarify the hospital

4725
07:45:00,000 --> 07:45:29,820
So, I haven't had a chance to comment on the amendment. So, that's what I would like to do now. I apologize, Councillor Hearst. You're correct. You said it. I apologize. I find it kind of perplexing. I think probably what most of us do. Here we are just days on from being in a COVID, basically a COVID lockdown. And here we are making a decision on land use policies for the next 30 years with no idea how the pandemic will alter.

4726
07:45:29,820 --> 07:45:36,340
the way business travel and everyday life situations will be conducted in the future.

4727
07:45:37,860 --> 07:45:43,240
I also did not leave we have, again because of the pandemic, I don't think we've been able

4728
07:45:43,240 --> 07:45:48,000
to give the public an up opportunity to be involved with discussion and input.

4729
07:45:48,180 --> 07:45:54,600
It doesn't feel as vibrant as it did last time around where we had input from people at public

4730
07:45:54,600 --> 07:45:59,800
meetings in person attendance where our staff were there to answer questions and we did

4731
07:45:59,800 --> 07:46:02,200
and we did table discussions.

4732
07:46:02,800 --> 07:46:04,600
It doesn't feel as vibrant

4733
07:46:04,600 --> 07:46:06,940
and as complete as it did back then.

4734
07:46:07,820 --> 07:46:09,860
And so I think we've let the polygon

4735
07:46:09,860 --> 07:46:10,940
a little bit in that area.

4736
07:46:12,520 --> 07:46:15,920
But I just wanna make a couple of comments on,

4737
07:46:16,800 --> 07:46:19,500
I'm not gonna argue any comments that have been made,

4738
07:46:19,660 --> 07:46:22,000
but I think one of the things that we're not looking at

4739
07:46:22,000 --> 07:46:25,180
is we've been talking about the farmers

4740
07:46:25,180 --> 07:46:28,040
and what the farmers are drawing today.

4741
07:46:28,040 --> 07:46:29,660
And I think that I don't think that's the issue.

4742
07:46:30,180 --> 07:46:35,860
I think the issue is we want to make sure that there's a land available, not today, but

4743
07:46:35,860 --> 07:46:42,300
in 30 years because it's not what they grow today is what will we want to grow in 30 years

4744
07:46:42,880 --> 07:46:49,700
and we'll want to have a land to do it when California or Mexico or China can't supply the

4745
07:46:49,700 --> 07:46:55,260
fruits of vegetables that we need because climate change issues that they're dealing with.

4746
07:46:55,260 --> 07:47:00,100
And I don't know whether anybody, I talked to Councillor Albano about this.

4747
07:47:00,520 --> 07:47:10,180
I hate going into solvies and picking up people or other vegetables and seeing that they're from China.

4748
07:47:11,140 --> 07:47:23,380
And I think to myself, how can they produce that and put it on a ship and send it over here and have it sitting in a counter looking like it came out of a garden yesterday.

4749
07:47:23,920 --> 07:47:28,380
And how can they do that cheaper than we could provide a period of Ontario?

4750
07:47:28,820 --> 07:47:31,600
I don't get it, but that's kind of beside the point.

4751
07:47:32,680 --> 07:47:38,640
I want to thank Councilor Fogel for putting the amendment on the floor, which has addressed

4752
07:47:38,640 --> 07:47:42,380
my concerns about the hospital situation.

4753
07:47:44,120 --> 07:47:51,840
I think I was probably leaning towards 3B, or would have been leaning towards 3B if had

4754
07:47:51,840 --> 07:47:57,440
I did not bid for that, but I think I've since the discussions I've seen today and everything.

4755
07:47:57,660 --> 07:48:10,200
I think that the limited amount of land that the amendment is talking about would certainly

4756
07:48:10,200 --> 07:48:10,660
suffice.

4757
07:48:10,920 --> 07:48:13,260
I think we were talking 500 acres, I'm not mistaken.

4758
07:48:15,100 --> 07:48:19,200
I do have a concern about the employment plans.

4759
07:48:19,200 --> 07:48:25,800
And I agree with the, sorry, with the mayor's previous comments.

4760
07:48:26,080 --> 07:48:29,360
I do have the self-written down here about the percentage of labor

4761
07:48:29,360 --> 07:48:33,080
force that have to commute 42% and that sort of thing.

4762
07:48:33,640 --> 07:48:39,220
And the fact that when we first started, when I first started as a

4763
07:48:39,220 --> 07:48:45,540
counselor and when the mayor started as a mayor, we didn't work as

4764
07:48:45,540 --> 07:48:48,640
as we could to try to get that industrial residential

4765
07:48:48,640 --> 07:48:51,620
ratio up and we've done, I think we've done very well

4766
07:48:51,620 --> 07:48:56,080
and I think we've established a superb town staff

4767
07:48:56,080 --> 07:48:59,160
who are bringing that to fruition for us.

4768
07:48:59,360 --> 07:49:02,840
But I think we have to continue that because I think,

4769
07:49:03,140 --> 07:49:07,520
you know, to have that offset that higher tax base,

4770
07:49:08,220 --> 07:49:11,480
you know, an offset the residential taxes,

4771
07:49:11,640 --> 07:49:12,940
I think that's an important thing.

4772
07:49:12,940 --> 07:49:19,260
So, as Councilor Johnson mentioned, I don't know if Councilor Fogel is interested in adding

4773
07:49:19,260 --> 07:49:20,260
some land in.

4774
07:49:20,380 --> 07:49:25,240
I would certainly support option of the amendment if that was the case.

4775
07:49:25,880 --> 07:49:26,360
Thank you.

4776
07:49:27,920 --> 07:49:29,800
Thank you, Councilor Lawler.

4777
07:49:33,680 --> 07:49:35,120
Yes, thanks very much, Mr. Mayor.

4778
07:49:35,680 --> 07:49:39,220
And thank you for all the conversation that we've had.

4779
07:49:39,220 --> 07:49:47,600
I appreciate that everybody is trying to be very thoughtful and deal with an exceedingly

4780
07:49:47,600 --> 07:49:48,780
difficult situation.

4781
07:49:50,820 --> 07:49:59,600
I am heartened by Councillor Lewis's comments about compromise and realism and attempting

4782
07:49:59,600 --> 07:50:11,760
for all of us to try to be on the same page and try to be kind of united in our approach.

4783
07:50:12,860 --> 07:50:20,480
And what I'd like to do if I may is make an amendment to the amendment, and with

4784
07:50:20,480 --> 07:50:30,680
Councilor Vogel's permission and this is what I'd like to suggest and that is that the

4785
07:50:35,120 --> 07:50:48,680
reference is to 3a and Council will recall that 3a talks about no expansion of residential

4786
07:50:48,680 --> 07:51:00,360
lands, but expansion of 450 hectares, which is 1100 acres of employment lands. That's

4787
07:51:00,360 --> 07:51:10,500
what 3A says. Now as we've discussed, I and I think most others on Council are very

4788
07:51:10,500 --> 07:51:18,520
concerned about accommodating the hospital, and we're also aware that we need significant

4789
07:51:18,520 --> 07:51:27,640
Parkland and as well there's there are comments that that having low rise single

4790
07:51:27,640 --> 07:51:35,460
family dwellings are important for residential. So what I'm wondering is if we

4791
07:51:35,460 --> 07:51:50,200
We could amend 3A so that we take 100 hectares for hospital and residential and commercial

4792
07:51:50,200 --> 07:52:00,060
and community purposes and rather than 450, rather 350 hectares for employment lands.

4793
07:52:00,060 --> 07:52:12,980
So that is in total 450 hectares or approximately 1100 acres, the size of vision Georgetown would

4794
07:52:12,980 --> 07:52:22,160
be added to employment lands and residential lands in order to accommodate some of the

4795
07:52:22,160 --> 07:52:24,260
kinds of things that we've talked about today.

4796
07:52:24,260 --> 07:52:42,040
So, what I'm suggesting is a hybrid, it is between two and three essentially is what I'm proposing.

4797
07:52:43,200 --> 07:52:52,480
So, for me that helps me accommodate what I regard as urgent issues as far as climate change is concerned.

4798
07:52:52,480 --> 07:53:03,020
And it recognizes that we will have primarily a higher density accommodations and-

4799
07:53:03,020 --> 07:53:04,040
Part of order, Mr. Mayor.

4800
07:53:05,140 --> 07:53:05,280
Sorry.

4801
07:53:05,580 --> 07:53:06,660
Yeah, go ahead of all the same.

4802
07:53:07,940 --> 07:53:14,440
Mr. Mayor, the Council is suggesting about amending an amendment is dropping it on us like

4803
07:53:14,440 --> 07:53:21,420
this and it hasn't even seen if it's something that is acceptable to the mover of the seconder.

4804
07:53:21,420 --> 07:53:27,040
I would say it's contrary to what is being suggested that I would think under our rules

4805
07:53:27,040 --> 07:53:33,280
that it's a contrary motion to what is already on is looking at 3v that we should either

4806
07:53:33,280 --> 07:53:39,640
support or defeat the amendment that's on and then Councillor Lawler will be far cleaner

4807
07:53:39,640 --> 07:53:45,900
to have her put that on as a fresh amendment instead of getting into amending an amendment

4808
07:53:45,900 --> 07:53:48,640
and trying to deal back with doing the vote.

4809
07:53:48,960 --> 07:53:51,800
So that's what I would do as a point of order, Mr. Mayor.

4810
07:53:52,660 --> 07:53:54,360
Thank you, Councillor Somerville.

4811
07:53:54,760 --> 07:53:57,720
I was just deferring with our clerk

4812
07:53:59,060 --> 07:54:01,480
and we're just going to say the same thing.

4813
07:54:05,100 --> 07:54:06,880
And Vell will make a comment,

4814
07:54:07,020 --> 07:54:08,820
but we're seeing the same thing.

4815
07:54:10,300 --> 07:54:11,620
Thank you, Mayor Vennette, and through you.

4816
07:54:11,820 --> 07:54:15,800
So yes, the amendment that is currently

4817
07:54:15,800 --> 07:54:19,860
on the floor, the amendment to the amendment that you're suggesting Councillor Lawlor

4818
07:54:19,860 --> 07:54:25,940
is kind of contradicting what is there. So, Councillor Somerville is correct. We should vote

4819
07:54:25,940 --> 07:54:29,520
on the amendment that is currently on the floor with Councillor Fogel and should that be

4820
07:54:29,520 --> 07:54:33,420
defeated then you could present a new amendment to the original motion.

4821
07:54:34,820 --> 07:54:44,780
Okay. Just to clarify, I seconded that motion from Councillor Fogel. Does that change the status

4822
07:54:44,780 --> 07:54:45,960
of what I should be doing?

4823
07:54:47,880 --> 07:54:53,210
Well, it's looking at the amendment that she had,

4824
07:54:53,310 --> 07:54:55,950
like what I'm getting from what you're saying is you,

4825
07:54:56,030 --> 07:54:59,690
instead of having concept 3B, you wanted to say concept 3A.

4826
07:55:00,470 --> 07:55:00,690
Yes.

4827
07:55:01,050 --> 07:55:02,970
Which is kind of contradicting what she has.

4828
07:55:03,150 --> 07:55:05,430
And then it appears that you want to put one of the paragraphs

4829
07:55:05,430 --> 07:55:07,330
back in rather than take it out.

4830
07:55:08,030 --> 07:55:09,250
Am I correct in saying that?

4831
07:55:09,650 --> 07:55:13,850
No, I don't want to do that.

4832
07:55:15,840 --> 07:55:17,780
I think to be cleaner with everything,

4833
07:55:17,780 --> 07:55:21,520
it may be easier to do that because some of the things you're suggesting aren't within

4834
07:55:21,520 --> 07:55:25,520
the original amendment to the motion that she has on the floor right now?

4835
07:55:26,460 --> 07:55:31,500
Okay. Well, I mean, that's fine. Whatever procedure works.

4836
07:55:34,440 --> 07:55:44,160
I'd like to hear from Councillor Fogal, and I made withdrawal my second, and then it might just die.

4837
07:55:44,160 --> 07:55:44,940
I don't know.

4838
07:55:48,400 --> 07:55:54,520
Okay, well, Councilor Fogel does have her hand up. So, if I'll, uh, Councilor

4839
07:55:54,520 --> 07:55:57,580
Lawler, if you can defer to Councilor Fogel? Councilor Fogel?

4840
07:55:57,960 --> 07:56:05,780
Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. I, that, what Councilor Lawler has talked about is not what I thought

4841
07:56:05,780 --> 07:56:12,080
she was going to say. I thought we were going to amend this by removing paragraph four

4842
07:56:12,080 --> 07:56:22,380
and five, like taking them out of the amendment. In other words, leaving them in the recommendation

4843
07:56:22,380 --> 07:56:31,260
approving all of that employment land. So if we amend my amendment by removing the words

4844
07:56:31,260 --> 07:56:38,740
that paragraph four and five be removed, then all of the employment land is back in.

4845
07:56:41,540 --> 07:56:42,320
Well,

4846
07:56:47,980 --> 07:56:58,120
I get what I'm suggesting is that not all of the employment land in 3A be left

4847
07:56:58,120 --> 07:57:05,700
in, that some of it be used for hospital and parkland and residential purposes, but

4848
07:57:05,700 --> 07:57:15,980
the total area to be added to the urban boundary would stay at 450 hectares.

4849
07:57:15,980 --> 07:57:28,500
it would be split differently. So I leave it to you, Mr. Chair, to I'll follow whatever

4850
07:57:28,500 --> 07:57:31,040
your lead is as far as that goes.

4851
07:57:33,340 --> 07:57:36,020
So I would like to make an amendment to my amendment

4852
07:57:36,020 --> 07:57:44,780
then I will make it and it is to remove from my amendment that paragraph 4 and 5 be removed.

4853
07:57:44,780 --> 07:57:45,800
the

4854
07:57:51,620 --> 07:57:55,880
effect is what you mean by paragraph four and five since we're dealing with

4855
07:57:55,880 --> 07:58:01,900
operative clauses they're what operative clauses are you referring to they are

4856
07:58:01,900 --> 07:58:06,040
they are the ones to do with employment land so in other words if the

4857
07:58:06,040 --> 07:58:11,200
amendment to the amendment passes all the employment land in the staff

4858
07:58:11,200 --> 07:58:22,520
recommendation would be included wouldn't be touched okay so in a the effect would

4859
07:58:22,520 --> 07:58:31,860
then be that we would be cutting in half the the community land from 400 hectares to 200 hectares.

4860
07:58:33,300 --> 07:58:39,060
That's all we would do except we would also delete paragraph nine that talks about

4861
07:58:41,290 --> 07:58:44,390
the future of agricultural land. I think we should just delete it.

4862
07:58:45,850 --> 07:58:49,210
I don't want to make anything permanent when it comes to any of that land.

4863
07:58:49,210 --> 07:58:50,010
I

4864
07:58:59,420 --> 07:59:05,780
would like to see a written copy of what was being proposed by a suggested amended amendment.

4865
07:59:06,000 --> 07:59:11,460
I would still rather see as either supporter to feed the first one and do that because it's

4866
07:59:11,460 --> 07:59:13,940
getting talking about paragraphs as opposed to operative plots.

4867
07:59:14,420 --> 07:59:19,520
We're not even using the proper terminology for them, so I want to make sure it is clear what

4868
07:59:19,520 --> 07:59:20,620
we are going to vote on.

4869
07:59:20,620 --> 07:59:30,540
Councillor Fogel, I'm wondering out loud, if this is what you're looking at, why don't

4870
07:59:30,540 --> 07:59:36,700
you withdraw your first amendment? And just deal with what you're looking at now because

4871
07:59:36,700 --> 07:59:43,480
putting an amendment on the amendment is going to be confusing. And I would like to, maybe

4872
07:59:43,480 --> 07:59:48,960
you can write it out, or Valerie will try to write it out, and we'll just take a two-minute

4873
07:59:48,960 --> 07:59:53,560
break or see what it looks like. Now, Councillor Johnson, do you have your hand up?

4874
07:59:53,640 --> 07:59:58,040
Is that to say to speak to anything or can you wait till this?

4875
08:00:00,000 --> 08:00:07,560
Councillor Johnson. No, it was, it was to comment on, it was to second or agree with the amendment. So I'll leave it for now.

4876
08:00:09,960 --> 08:00:11,460
But I'm happy to second it.

4877
08:00:15,460 --> 08:00:29,900
So I just want clarification, Councillor. Yes, I'm happy to follow that advice to withdraw the amendment and come up with a new cleaner one. Okay. So just give a couple minutes. Thank you.

4878
08:00:38,430 --> 08:00:40,090
So, Mr. Mayor, am I writing it?

4879
08:00:40,090 --> 08:00:44,070
Where is Val writing? Valery is going to try to write it.

4880
08:00:47,790 --> 08:00:54,150
So it should be a simple change from 400 hectares to 200 hectares and remove paragraph 9.

4881
08:03:03,440 --> 08:03:09,740
Councillors, would you prefer us to send you a quick email or are we okay to share the screen to show you the new motion?

4882
08:03:11,200 --> 08:03:13,720
I say share the screen. Okay, we'll do that.

4883
08:03:13,720 --> 08:03:14,340
How

4884
08:10:02,340 --> 08:10:11,820
far are still working on the resolution and senior staff are discussing any implications

4885
08:10:11,820 --> 08:10:12,380
on it.

4886
08:10:12,540 --> 08:10:13,620
So everybody be patient.

4887
08:10:13,900 --> 08:10:14,300
Thank you.

4888
08:11:41,460 --> 08:11:50,600
Everybody, we're back, staff are back, and I can remember the late Rob Ford one time,

4889
08:11:50,600 --> 08:11:56,460
I was watching Toronto Regional Council meeting with this law and he said, that's it.

4890
08:11:56,460 --> 08:12:02,860
everybody get up and dance and he's gone out the council of dance again re-energized

4891
08:12:02,860 --> 08:12:07,060
well I'm not about to dance for all of us you guys to dance of any of you want

4892
08:12:07,060 --> 08:12:14,820
to do it anyway not that's good a little stretching isn't a bad thing so

4893
08:12:14,820 --> 08:12:17,220
Melissa will put it on her screen

4894
08:13:14,280 --> 08:13:16,940
councillors can you read that as or is it too

4895
08:13:16,940 --> 08:13:18,260
too tiny on your screen.

4896
08:13:22,540 --> 08:13:24,640
It's pretty good.

4897
08:13:28,540 --> 08:13:33,460
Would it be easier if I read it to you?

4898
08:13:34,920 --> 08:13:41,240
Is that not the original motion? No, so this is the amended motion. So what we've

4899
08:13:41,240 --> 08:13:45,520
taken is the recommendation from the report and put in Councilor Fogel's amendments into

4900
08:13:45,520 --> 08:13:48,760
it to show you what it would look like if the amendments were passed.

4901
08:13:53,230 --> 08:13:54,050
So to some, I just

4902
08:13:54,050 --> 08:13:59,270
very bottom of the page. Yeah so essentially what we've done is in the third

4903
08:13:59,270 --> 08:14:05,410
paragraph down the and further that we've added the words a modified to concept

4904
08:14:05,410 --> 08:14:14,510
two. We've taken out the ninth paragraph as suggested and the sixth paragraph

4905
08:14:14,510 --> 08:14:20,950
where she was referencing the 200 hectares. The wording has been reconfigured in

4906
08:14:20,950 --> 08:14:22,170
there to

4907
08:14:24,570 --> 08:14:27,270
bring more clarity to the motion.

4908
08:14:28,650 --> 08:14:31,230
Question of staff at the appropriate time, Mr. Mayor.

4909
08:14:33,230 --> 08:14:33,350
Yeah.

4910
08:14:36,010 --> 08:14:37,570
I have a question regarding clarity.

4911
08:14:39,430 --> 08:14:40,030
Okay.

4912
08:14:41,130 --> 08:14:47,510
What we'll do, you want a clarity on what we're doing now, Councillor Lewis or a clarity on

4913
08:14:47,510 --> 08:14:47,850
the...

4914
08:14:47,850 --> 08:14:54,810
Well, I would find it easier to have it read, to read through it with a staff person and

4915
08:14:54,810 --> 08:14:57,050
And then point out, this has changed because.

4916
08:14:57,050 --> 08:14:57,750
Let's go.

4917
08:15:00,000 --> 08:15:29,680
We're going to be more informative to any way that would be watching. Thank you. And council, some reveal the sense similar to what you're going to ask. Or I was going to well, the question I was going to ask is it says a modified concept to, which it's really not. It's more modified concept 3a or 3b3c3d. I don't know where we are in the numbering because it has 70% of the densification. Is that a realistic one with?

4918
08:15:29,680 --> 08:15:39,380
the only 200 hectares of land being spoken about for possible use, which I have issues with as well.

4919
08:15:40,220 --> 08:15:47,260
Okay, so we'll go back to, thank you Councillor Somerville, we'll go back to Councillor Lewis's request.

4920
08:15:48,580 --> 08:15:50,920
And Val, I guess you'll read it.

4921
08:15:53,650 --> 08:16:01,730
Thank you, Mayor Bonett, and through you, what I will do is I will read the recommendation as which includes the amendments as suggested by Councillor Fogel.

4922
08:16:01,730 --> 08:16:04,430
So here's the full motion.

4923
08:16:05,030 --> 08:16:11,630
That report, PD, 2021, 0045, dated June 26, 2021, regarding the Houghton region official

4924
08:16:11,630 --> 08:16:13,710
plan review, growth concepts be received.

4925
08:16:14,570 --> 08:16:18,630
And further that, the town continued to advance a three-pronged growth strategy to the

4926
08:16:18,630 --> 08:16:24,470
2021 planning horizon comprised of the following elements, intensification inside the Georgetown

4927
08:16:24,470 --> 08:16:29,930
and acting built-up area with a focus on key strategic growth areas such as the Georgetown

4928
08:16:29,930 --> 08:16:33,350
down Go station, Mill Street corridor, downtown Georgetown,

4929
08:16:33,650 --> 08:16:36,150
the Civic Center District, the Guelph Street corridor,

4930
08:16:36,510 --> 08:16:38,190
and Downtown Act and Act in Go,

4931
08:16:38,590 --> 08:16:40,630
in accordance with locally approved policies

4932
08:16:40,630 --> 08:16:42,570
as may be updated from time to time,

4933
08:16:43,030 --> 08:16:45,490
compact residential and mixed use development

4934
08:16:45,490 --> 08:16:47,310
within designated Greenfield areas,

4935
08:16:47,990 --> 08:16:50,230
development within designated employment areas,

4936
08:16:50,770 --> 08:16:52,490
and further that the region be advised

4937
08:16:52,490 --> 08:16:54,650
that the general scale of growth associated

4938
08:16:54,650 --> 08:16:58,550
with a modified concept to 70% densification

4939
08:16:58,550 --> 08:17:03,070
limited Greenfield expansion is considered to align with the general direction in the

4940
08:17:03,070 --> 08:17:09,290
town's strategic plan and three-pronged growth strategy and further that in keeping with

4941
08:17:09,290 --> 08:17:14,710
the findings and objectives of the town's employment land needs study 2020, economic development

4942
08:17:14,710 --> 08:17:22,070
and tourism strategy 2021, foreign direct investment strategy 2020, and the business concierge program

4943
08:17:22,070 --> 08:17:27,450
2021, the region of Houghton be advised that council is supportive of the provision of approximately

4944
08:17:27,450 --> 08:17:34,210
only 450 to 500 hectares of additional employment lands within the town to the 2051 planning horizon.

4945
08:17:35,150 --> 08:17:39,270
And further that, building on the strategic location, development and investment attraction

4946
08:17:39,270 --> 08:17:44,230
momentum and designation as a provincially significant employment zone in accordance

4947
08:17:44,230 --> 08:17:48,910
with a place to grow, the growth plan for the Greater Golden Horseshoe, the Houghton Hills

4948
08:17:48,910 --> 08:17:54,890
Premier Gateway, be prioritized for the location of additional employment lands to the 2051 planning

4949
08:17:54,890 --> 08:18:00,450
horizon and further that the region of Halton be advised that council is supportive of a modest

4950
08:18:00,450 --> 08:18:06,270
expansion to the Georgetown urban area of 200 hectares to accommodate compact residential

4951
08:18:06,270 --> 08:18:11,890
and mixed youth development once the existing DGA are substantially built out in the mid to late

4952
08:18:11,890 --> 08:18:17,490
2030s, along with providing opportunities for the proposed redevelopment of the Georgetown hospital

4953
08:18:18,350 --> 08:18:23,710
and further that any new additional urban lands be subject to appropriate phasing policies to

4954
08:18:23,710 --> 08:18:28,510
ensure a seamless and moderate scale and pace of development is in keeping with the

4955
08:18:28,510 --> 08:18:33,730
direction set in the town strategic plan and official plan and further that development

4956
08:18:33,730 --> 08:18:38,930
be in accordance with the town's green development standards as updated from time to time and

4957
08:18:38,930 --> 08:18:43,850
low-carbon opportunities continue to be pursued in keeping with the direction set out in the

4958
08:18:43,850 --> 08:18:49,230
town's strategic plan, the official plan and the low-carbon transition strategy once finalized

4959
08:18:49,230 --> 08:18:53,130
and further that the foregoing recommendations be utilized by the region of

4960
08:18:53,130 --> 08:18:56,530
Houghton in the development of a preferred growth concept for purposes of

4961
08:18:56,530 --> 08:19:00,570
updating the regional official plan to the 2021 planning horizon.

4962
08:19:05,230 --> 08:19:11,650
Well, Chris Mills are just like to make a change for a comment.

4963
08:19:12,430 --> 08:19:17,170
Thank you and through you Mr. Mayor and I apologize we just caught this as Val was

4964
08:19:17,170 --> 08:19:21,250
reading it out and I think it might go to one of the concerns that Councillor

4965
08:19:21,250 --> 08:19:22,650
or some reveal was raising.

4966
08:19:23,450 --> 08:19:26,850
In reading the overall recommendation now,

4967
08:19:27,670 --> 08:19:29,550
and in discussions with John,

4968
08:19:30,650 --> 08:19:34,550
there's no need to include the third and further that.

4969
08:19:34,890 --> 08:19:36,090
So the in further that the region

4970
08:19:36,090 --> 08:19:38,330
be advised the scale of growth associated

4971
08:19:38,330 --> 08:19:40,010
with a modified concept too,

4972
08:19:40,150 --> 08:19:41,570
and then talking about the densification

4973
08:19:41,570 --> 08:19:42,470
limited greeting field.

4974
08:19:43,090 --> 08:19:46,970
You've really stated your case in existing six,

4975
08:19:46,970 --> 08:19:49,170
which talks about the 200 hectares

4976
08:19:49,170 --> 08:19:54,970
to accommodate the compact residential. I think adding in the third one after giving

4977
08:19:54,970 --> 08:20:02,290
it some thought and adding in another concept name might just confuse the overall situation

4978
08:20:02,290 --> 08:20:10,250
and I don't think it adds anything in terms of relaying your direction to regional council.

4979
08:20:10,710 --> 08:20:13,910
So I offer that as a suggestion. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

4980
08:20:13,910 --> 08:20:16,640
here. Thank you.

4981
08:20:19,200 --> 08:20:22,520
Any Councillor Lohler, your hand is up.

4982
08:20:23,100 --> 08:20:31,240
Fall of the Council is somewhere. Yeah, and I just wanted to clarify, please, that the

4983
08:20:33,480 --> 08:20:42,200
suggestion of 200 hectares to accommodate compact residential and mixed use development, that's

4984
08:20:42,200 --> 08:20:55,240
correct not and not 200 acres. I think I think we were talking earlier about 200 acres, which is

4985
08:20:56,120 --> 08:21:11,480
closer to like 75 hectares for hospital and parkland and so forth. I guess what I'm seeing

4986
08:21:11,480 --> 08:21:19,140
with 200 hectares of residential and community land is really not all that different from the original number two.

4987
08:21:20,020 --> 08:21:21,380
So that's why I just wanted to clarify.

4988
08:21:29,080 --> 08:21:31,160
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Sorry.

4989
08:21:32,460 --> 08:21:34,200
It's late. What can I say?

4990
08:21:35,980 --> 08:21:46,260
Through you to the Councillor, just looking at what I understood Councillor Fogel had initially put on the table was to change it from 400 hectares to 200 hectares.

4991
08:21:46,260 --> 08:21:52,080
that is now what has been drafted in this revised motion for Council's consideration.

4992
08:21:52,080 --> 08:21:57,460
So it's basically a 50% cut in terms of what the staff report had set out.

4993
08:22:03,460 --> 08:22:08,140
I'll leave that to her to confirm that that was the intent.

4994
08:22:08,620 --> 08:22:14,120
I thought the original was 330 hectares was in the report, not 400, but anyway, okay.

4995
08:22:17,150 --> 08:22:18,890
Thank you, Councilor Somerville.

4996
08:22:18,890 --> 08:22:25,190
Well, I guess a question I would ask, it says about phasing policies.

4997
08:22:25,670 --> 08:22:32,890
Do we really need phasing policies if it's only 200 hectares we're talking about for the

4998
08:22:32,890 --> 08:22:37,970
hospital and a small park and other things because it's going to get eaten up.

4999
08:22:38,410 --> 08:22:43,290
Or is the phasing would it be better directed to say for employment land?

5000
08:22:51,720 --> 08:22:53,460
What paragraph are you on, Councillor?

5001
08:22:53,460 --> 08:22:53,580
Sir.

5002
08:22:54,320 --> 08:22:55,980
Top of the second page, Mr. Mayor.

5003
08:22:56,340 --> 08:22:56,760
Thank you.

5004
08:22:56,880 --> 08:22:59,400
It's further than any new additional urban lands be

5005
08:22:59,400 --> 08:23:01,980
subject to appropriate phasing policies.

5006
08:23:02,620 --> 08:23:05,280
We're only talking 200 hectares, what's in the motion.

5007
08:23:06,300 --> 08:23:10,780
How do you phase that when we heard the hospital might need 45 acres?

5008
08:23:10,840 --> 08:23:12,340
We're going to have a natural heritage system.

5009
08:23:12,640 --> 08:23:13,520
We're going to have roads.

5010
08:23:14,140 --> 08:23:16,140
And we have 100 acres of park we need.

5011
08:23:16,560 --> 08:23:19,300
I don't know what the hell we need to phase on that little bit.

5012
08:23:29,590 --> 08:23:31,230
Is there any comment on that from staff?

5013
08:23:31,230 --> 08:23:33,310
That's what happens when you take a motion and try to

5014
08:23:34,010 --> 08:23:35,390
juggle it with something else.

5015
08:23:35,830 --> 08:23:37,530
Yeah, they'll hear from staff in a moment.

5016
08:23:40,440 --> 08:23:45,000
So through the Mayor of the Councilor in context of the original staff report, the intent

5017
08:23:45,000 --> 08:23:52,780
was to make it clear that any additional urban lands would be phased.

5018
08:23:53,080 --> 08:23:56,340
I guess I would call that like a regional phasing line, if you will.

5019
08:23:56,680 --> 08:24:01,700
And then there might be additional phasing, local phasing, if I can call it that, as well.

5020
08:24:01,700 --> 08:24:07,740
So if you think of the regional plan now, there's a phasing line in terms of what was pre-2021 versus that

5021
08:24:07,740 --> 08:24:13,300
which would be occurring after 2021. And then if you look inside the vision Georgetown secondary plan,

5022
08:24:13,680 --> 08:24:19,980
there's a phasing line proposed there as well. So that's what it was getting at in context of

5023
08:24:20,800 --> 08:24:24,380
obviously the proposed expansion up to 400 hectares.

5024
08:24:24,380 --> 08:24:31,680
If it's a phasing provision now, I would think it would only really be in context of maybe

5025
08:24:31,680 --> 08:24:33,060
a regional phasing line.

5026
08:24:33,060 --> 08:24:34,420
I appreciate your point.

5027
08:24:34,620 --> 08:24:41,260
As you sort of shrink the land area involved, it does call into question how much phasing

5028
08:24:41,260 --> 08:24:43,320
would would be required.

5029
08:24:45,120 --> 08:24:50,640
I don't know if anything will ultimately turn on it, though, in terms of the final direction

5030
08:24:50,640 --> 08:24:52,720
the council wants to go on.

5031
08:24:52,720 --> 08:24:56,540
Those are my thoughts at the moment.

5032
08:24:57,820 --> 08:24:59,440
Thank you, John, I appreciate that.

5033
08:24:59,920 --> 08:25:03,400
The other question I would have is if we're looking at this

5034
08:25:04,020 --> 08:25:09,540
to add in anything for the hospital, would it not be better

5035
08:25:09,540 --> 08:25:12,060
to have it cleaner?

5036
08:25:12,880 --> 08:25:18,740
And I know I'm asking a process that because for the hospital,

5037
08:25:18,740 --> 08:25:22,260
we're not talking 2031 to 2051 lightly.

5038
08:25:22,260 --> 08:25:28,040
if that's the case, to have that, you know, to make sure that it's clear that, you know,

5039
08:25:28,120 --> 08:25:34,120
that we have that so that it's, it would be allowed to be able to develop at that time.

5040
08:25:34,380 --> 08:25:39,300
And that's whether this passes or defeat is defeated to make sure that's something that could be

5041
08:25:39,300 --> 08:25:42,540
advanced at a time that Halt and Healthcare would need it.

5042
08:25:52,180 --> 08:25:53,600
Through the Mayor of the Council,

5043
08:25:53,820 --> 08:25:59,600
I understand what you're getting at right now. There's a clause in the staff report as written

5044
08:25:59,600 --> 08:26:05,940
The talks about the lands being required, let's say in the mid-2030s or late-2030s, whatever

5045
08:26:05,940 --> 08:26:10,460
the case may be, the hospital may want to be in the ground sooner.

5046
08:26:10,680 --> 08:26:13,220
So I understand what you're getting at.

5047
08:26:14,820 --> 08:26:20,360
There's probably ways we could come up with some wording to suggest to the region that

5048
08:26:20,360 --> 08:26:23,820
it might need to go earlier, assuming they can find a suitable site.

5049
08:26:24,840 --> 08:26:26,260
And that could be a conversation.

5050
08:26:26,260 --> 08:26:30,980
I guess the other thing that we'd have to be clear on is really what this is saying

5051
08:26:32,040 --> 08:26:39,140
is that we are not expanding the urban boundary for any housing options.

5052
08:26:39,540 --> 08:26:43,180
So affordable housing, long-term care, anything like that.

5053
08:26:44,040 --> 08:26:47,900
And we'd have to be very clear to people that the only expansion that's being done,

5054
08:26:48,720 --> 08:26:51,500
like it says, compact residential and mixed use.

5055
08:26:51,500 --> 08:26:59,500
it'll be awful compact and and mixed use it won't be anything because there

5056
08:26:59,500 --> 08:27:01,680
won't be enough in that with 200 hectares.

5057
08:27:14,490 --> 08:27:19,030
Councilor Fogel, I have you next and I

5058
08:27:19,030 --> 08:27:24,490
just want to make sure that this is the wording that you're looking at or

5059
08:27:24,490 --> 08:27:32,650
your intent as well. Yes it is it's the right wording and I mean I would

5060
08:27:32,650 --> 08:27:38,710
certainly accept a friendly amendment from the CAO to remove that other paragraph.

5061
08:27:39,150 --> 08:27:43,890
Doesn't matter to me, if it seems cleaner, that's okay.

5062
08:27:48,480 --> 08:27:49,420
And I would just add,

5063
08:27:52,000 --> 08:27:59,440
the 200 hectares is 500 acres. It's half the size of Vision Georgetown.

5064
08:28:00,120 --> 08:28:05,060
There's going to be a lot of housing there just to be clear.

5065
08:28:05,060 --> 08:28:06,040
Thank

5066
08:28:13,400 --> 08:28:18,340
you, Mr. Mayor. I thought it might be helpful to clarify as well when you're looking at a

5067
08:28:18,340 --> 08:28:25,040
townwide park. Obviously this is the good work that Mr. Harris and Mr. O'Keemy have been doing.

5068
08:28:26,020 --> 08:28:34,060
That facility was not necessarily construed or likely to be within the expanded urban area.

5069
08:28:34,680 --> 08:28:39,800
It was always seen as a facility that would be close to that expanded urban area just because of

5070
08:28:39,800 --> 08:28:46,140
the sheer size. And certainly as you shrink wrap the urban boundary that's proposed of 200

5071
08:28:46,140 --> 08:28:53,020
hectares, it does create additional challenges if you're trying to fit that scale of a park

5072
08:28:53,020 --> 08:29:01,700
inside this amount of hectares as well. So I just think we should reference that and council

5073
08:29:01,700 --> 08:29:09,780
may want to deliberate in terms of that particular facility and how it might fit into this particular

5074
08:29:09,780 --> 08:29:11,460
a regular revised recommendation.

5075
08:29:11,920 --> 08:29:14,520
Because if I recall, Mr. Harris and Mr. O'Keeney

5076
08:29:14,520 --> 08:29:17,460
were talking about 40 hectares roughly

5077
08:29:17,920 --> 08:29:21,920
as an actual facility that they would be looking for.

5078
08:29:46,260 --> 08:29:47,440
Mr. Mayor, can I ask the question?

5079
08:29:50,890 --> 08:29:53,310
Let's respect to the procedure.

5080
08:29:55,640 --> 08:29:57,880
Yeah, it's a little bit of procedure slash protocol.

5081
08:30:00,500 --> 08:30:29,520
Yeah, go ahead. Okay. Thank you. Is this the right thing to do, the right timing to do on such a major decision would be an ask to make. And here we are after eight and a half hours of being at a meeting. Still, I want to say struggling lately to arrive at what we're trying to get at. And if I was running a business, I tell everybody, go on home and come on back tomorrow.

5082
08:30:29,520 --> 08:30:34,320
when we're fresh and glad it why because it's so important to make a decision to

5083
08:30:36,180 --> 08:30:39,600
2051 and then to accommodate the things we're trying to accommodate and my

5084
08:30:39,600 --> 08:30:44,920
immediate reaction to this is this isn't fair to anybody to try to get to where

5085
08:30:44,920 --> 08:30:49,640
we're trying to get to in the manner we're trying to get there so I just simply put

5086
08:30:49,640 --> 08:30:59,500
that out and finding that this is getting I don't want to say confusing but I

5087
08:30:59,500 --> 08:31:05,940
That would be my comment, sir, that I don't know if arriving at a decision at 9.30 at night

5088
08:31:05,940 --> 08:31:09,740
after eight hours is the right thing to do and something so important.

5089
08:31:31,240 --> 08:31:31,580
Okay.

5090
08:31:32,900 --> 08:31:40,360
Councillor Lewis, Councillor Fogel and Summaryville, we have to join a regional council meeting tomorrow

5091
08:31:40,360 --> 08:31:45,480
that probably go on five, six hours, so we can't suspend it until tomorrow.

5092
08:31:45,480 --> 08:31:58,540
just let me defer with the clerk and with the acting CAO.

5093
08:31:58,940 --> 08:31:59,140
We

5094
08:35:03,560 --> 08:35:09,900
had a little conflab here and we would need...

5095
08:35:11,760 --> 08:35:14,200
Like I think Councillor Lewis has a point.

5096
08:35:14,200 --> 08:35:15,560
And I think we're all kind of punch drunk.

5097
08:35:15,720 --> 08:35:19,360
We've been going around for hours on this.

5098
08:35:21,820 --> 08:35:28,400
So what I'm suggesting is we suspend this meeting

5099
08:35:29,880 --> 08:35:31,700
to Tuesday at 9.30.

5100
08:35:31,820 --> 08:35:36,280
We have a workshop Tuesday afternoon at 130.

5101
08:35:36,620 --> 08:35:38,440
So we could suspend this at 9.30.

5102
08:35:38,600 --> 08:35:40,020
But in order to do this,

5103
08:35:40,020 --> 08:35:49,200
Councilor Fogel would have to withdraw your amendment and make a motion to refer it to staff.

5104
08:35:50,700 --> 08:35:53,460
And that's the cleanest way to do this.

5105
08:35:55,840 --> 08:35:57,320
I'd be happy to do that.

5106
08:36:03,400 --> 08:36:05,460
So, Councilor Fogel, you refer this to staff.

5107
08:36:05,920 --> 08:36:07,260
I will refer it to staff.

5108
08:36:11,300 --> 08:36:11,640
Okay.

5109
08:36:12,180 --> 08:36:16,700
I know I've got a speaker's list, but if everybody agrees, I just call a vote on it.

5110
08:36:23,850 --> 08:36:26,810
We just need a seconder. Who would second this?

5111
08:36:28,050 --> 08:36:34,770
Councillor Johnson is seconding it. I'm just going to call the vote unless I hear an objection.

5112
08:36:35,110 --> 08:36:43,370
So the idea is, as fortunately we do have a workshops Tuesday afternoon so we can reconvene this meeting at 9.30

5113
08:36:43,370 --> 08:36:49,790
to stay morning and I might give it some more ideas and again when this is for

5114
08:36:49,790 --> 08:36:54,790
anybody that you're still around from the public this is not to hear more

5115
08:36:54,790 --> 08:36:59,410
delegations this is the continuation of this meeting I just want to be perfectly

5116
08:36:59,410 --> 08:37:10,000
clear so is there any objection to to refer to staff any objection Mr. Mayor yeah

5117
08:37:11,440 --> 08:37:16,920
We have some questions of clarification for that for next week.

5118
08:37:17,440 --> 08:37:22,360
We should just contact staff to find out because I know that, you know,

5119
08:37:22,420 --> 08:37:23,920
it would be nice to know the park plan piece.

5120
08:37:23,920 --> 08:37:28,960
It would be nice to know what we see numbers that would be on that.

5121
08:37:29,700 --> 08:37:31,500
Are we talking net hectares?

5122
08:37:32,260 --> 08:37:34,680
Like there's a couple of questions that come up right off the bat

5123
08:37:34,680 --> 08:37:38,180
and is 200 the right number should it be 250?

5124
08:37:38,180 --> 08:37:43,180
right? To make sure that it's realistic for what we actually need in that area.

5125
08:37:43,800 --> 08:37:49,180
Councillor, absolutely. Any member of council, if you have any questions

5126
08:37:49,180 --> 08:37:57,000
to staff for clarification from now until next Tuesday, by all means,

5127
08:37:57,600 --> 08:37:58,600
Nick and I, those questions.

5128
08:38:06,050 --> 08:38:09,130
Chris Mills to suggested, if you send any questions

5129
08:38:09,130 --> 08:38:13,110
and to whether it's John, et cetera, to copy the clerk

5130
08:38:13,930 --> 08:38:18,650
so that we can have Chris suggested a running inventory

5131
08:38:18,650 --> 08:38:21,950
so that we can keep track of the questions being asked

5132
08:38:21,950 --> 08:38:23,210
to staff.

5133
08:38:25,860 --> 08:38:26,860
So everybody good?

5134
08:38:27,680 --> 08:38:29,840
I don't see any objections.

5135
08:38:29,840 --> 08:38:31,140
Everybody looks so tired.

5136
08:38:31,320 --> 08:38:33,620
I still say it's not going to go out and dance

5137
08:38:33,620 --> 08:38:35,620
and get your energy back.

5138
08:38:37,360 --> 08:38:37,600
Okay.

5139
08:38:37,600 --> 08:38:41,900
So it's officially referred to staff.

5140
08:38:45,250 --> 08:38:46,050
Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

5141
08:38:47,110 --> 08:38:47,950
Thank you, Councilor.

5142
08:38:48,950 --> 08:38:50,750
And I think of anything we should say,

5143
08:38:50,870 --> 08:38:53,410
we should apologize to the people who have been on there with us,

5144
08:38:53,970 --> 08:38:55,470
waiting for a final decision.

5145
08:38:55,930 --> 08:38:58,550
But I think as to what we've just talked about here,

5146
08:38:58,670 --> 08:39:00,730
it's far more important to do it with a clear head

5147
08:39:00,730 --> 08:39:03,010
because it is a meeting decision that we've made.

5148
08:39:03,230 --> 08:39:05,590
So to our public friends that are on there,

5149
08:39:05,690 --> 08:39:06,510
and I think you said that,

5150
08:39:07,290 --> 08:39:08,570
I'd want to say we're sorry,

5151
08:39:08,570 --> 08:39:14,730
But we do appreciate the fact that some I've just checked here some have been hanging in as long as the rest of us so

5152
08:39:17,350 --> 08:39:19,190
We have to thank you very much

5153
08:39:20,830 --> 08:39:23,350
Totally great now turn it over to our clerk

5154
08:39:24,770 --> 08:39:28,330
Thank you, Marbonette and through you so we will now need a motion to

5155
08:39:30,690 --> 08:39:34,110
Deferred this meeting to Tuesday, July 13th at 9.30 a.m

5156
08:39:36,120 --> 08:39:38,420
So Mr. Mayor if you want to call for mover and second year

5157
08:39:39,680 --> 08:39:43,080
Councilor Lawler as a mover, and who would like to second?

5158
08:39:43,220 --> 08:39:46,000
Councilor Hearst has his hand up to second it.

5159
08:39:47,020 --> 08:39:50,180
Councilor Johnson, you look like you're going to ask a question, or are you just going

5160
08:39:50,180 --> 08:39:50,380
to move?

5161
08:39:50,620 --> 08:39:50,840
Okay.

5162
08:39:51,760 --> 08:39:53,340
Is there any objection?

5163
08:39:54,080 --> 08:39:54,220
No.

5164
08:39:54,880 --> 08:39:57,380
Madam Clerk, I consider this motion carried.

5165
08:40:02,010 --> 08:40:03,750
So now we're going to call this recess.

5166
08:40:03,790 --> 08:40:07,930
It's going to be the longest recess in the history of Halton Hills, and I think everybody's

5167
08:40:07,930 --> 08:40:08,510
part of it.

5168
08:40:09,350 --> 08:40:14,370
Have a good night everyone. It's a good thing to start a hockey game tonight. I've been a panic.

5169
08:40:15,350 --> 08:40:16,950
Thank you. Good night.