1
00:00:08,050 --> 00:00:28,810
Good evening. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the town council workshop meeting July 27, 2026. First order of business is planning and community economic development status report. We do not have one of those. No unfinished business. Why my voice sounds weird, doesn't it?

2
00:00:34,980 --> 00:00:42,140
New Business Council Award of the Edith Dyer Library Paving Contract to Hopkins Paving in the amount of $21,000.

3
00:00:42,140 --> 00:00:43,480
public comment.

4
00:00:45,980 --> 00:00:46,940
Go ahead.

5
00:01:03,620 --> 00:01:07,600
Just an observation. I was surprised two firms about the

6
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:12,300
same scope and that regularly worked for the town and difference was 130% in

7
00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:13,140
between the two bids.

8
00:01:16,330 --> 00:01:21,330
So I was just curious is Hopkins already paving

9
00:01:21,330 --> 00:01:27,730
Avalon Village or what was that? Hopkins is the company that got good for our

10
00:01:27,730 --> 00:01:34,370
general paving around town. We had gotten the original quote from Wellman in

11
00:01:34,370 --> 00:01:38,010
order to form the budget when we were talking about paving the library

12
00:01:39,490 --> 00:01:44,370
so we did reach back out to them and ask for an update of quote and got the

13
00:01:44,370 --> 00:01:44,890
same amount.

14
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:49,740
Anybody else?

15
00:01:50,820 --> 00:01:59,340
Paula, is there a difference in the quote, some detail we don't understand, like the thickness

16
00:01:59,340 --> 00:02:05,740
of the tarage, two inches in one situation and three inches in the other or something

17
00:02:05,740 --> 00:02:09,720
that's obvious for those of us who don't do paving there?

18
00:02:10,940 --> 00:02:17,500
No, they would have been given the same specs that they needed two millimeters or 12 millimeters

19
00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:23,800
or whatever that measurement is, I think it's more about the fact that Hopkins

20
00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:31,440
already has our paving bid and they were able to just piggyback the library on.

21
00:02:35,020 --> 00:02:37,300
I guess we've started council discussion.

22
00:02:38,100 --> 00:02:38,720
Anybody else?

23
00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:55,660
No, it was just John asked for quotes.

24
00:02:57,020 --> 00:02:57,260
Right.

25
00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,380
Is that normal procedure, or would this normally go out for?

26
00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,560
Well, we would have normally just added it to our paving bed, it would have been added.

27
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:12,740
It would have been an added scope to the paving bid that already went out that you guys

28
00:03:12,740 --> 00:03:13,400
already awarded.

29
00:03:13,640 --> 00:03:19,720
So there might have been one less road that we did in town or whatever, however we worked

30
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:25,840
that, but we had asked to during the budget process set aside 50,000 into library reserve

31
00:03:26,460 --> 00:03:26,980
for that.

32
00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:33,440
And so John was just trying to qualify what we had gone for a quote back then and what Hopkins

33
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,240
would give us.

34
00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:35,080
Right.

35
00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:35,620
Right.

36
00:03:35,620 --> 00:03:44,360
I mean, I'm thrilled that it's so much less, and I just wanted to make sure that, you know,

37
00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:49,360
like one competitor isn't seeing the bit of the other person, and then, you know, then

38
00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,740
undercutting it or anything like that, okay.

39
00:03:55,000 --> 00:04:03,260
For clarification purposes, this, the library road, if you will, is it technically a road

40
00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:05,420
Is it more or less a long parking lot?

41
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:06,160
Is it?

42
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,160
It's more a parking lot slash driveway.

43
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:10,760
Drive way.

44
00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:11,180
Yeah.

45
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:11,680
Okay.

46
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:13,280
Thank you.

47
00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:19,930
Happy to support the process and the result.

48
00:04:20,450 --> 00:04:21,090
I think we're fortunate.

49
00:04:21,990 --> 00:04:22,270
Yes.

50
00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:27,480
Thank you.

51
00:04:29,570 --> 00:04:30,870
New Business B Council.

52
00:04:31,390 --> 00:04:36,470
This is a discussion of Council authorization of an amount not to exceed $21,000 from library

53
00:04:36,470 --> 00:04:36,930
reserve.

54
00:04:36,930 --> 00:04:43,110
of 3-763-00 to pay Hopkins Paving to complete the Paving

55
00:04:43,110 --> 00:04:44,690
work at the ETA Tire Library.

56
00:04:47,140 --> 00:04:47,700
Public comment.

57
00:04:50,930 --> 00:04:54,730
Council of discussion, go ahead, go ahead, please.

58
00:04:56,390 --> 00:04:58,550
I'm sorry, I thought we was pointing to.

59
00:04:58,710 --> 00:05:01,790
I just wanted to, you know, we kind of all lumped it all

60
00:05:01,790 --> 00:05:05,510
together in the last discussion when we were talking

61
00:05:05,510 --> 00:05:06,350
about the pricing.

62
00:05:06,530 --> 00:05:11,290
But the point of this particular item

63
00:05:11,290 --> 00:05:16,430
would be just to remind everyone that we had set aside funds in the budget or the

64
00:05:16,430 --> 00:05:17,430
paving at the library.

65
00:05:22,390 --> 00:05:31,730
As far as the remaining funds, there would be 29,000 left over from

66
00:05:31,730 --> 00:05:36,970
the 50 that we set aside, is that going to just hang out and sit in limbo and the

67
00:05:36,970 --> 00:05:42,910
library reserve until we need paving again? Is that going to get reverted back to

68
00:05:42,910 --> 00:05:46,070
something or the designation be changed or what does that work?

69
00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:54,850
It will stay in library reserve if we needed to do some other type of small paving or sidewalk

70
00:05:54,850 --> 00:05:59,950
work or something. I'm not sure. We would try to allocate it for that. If a certain amount

71
00:05:59,950 --> 00:06:06,810
of time has gone by and we haven't used it for a paving project, we would unencumber it

72
00:06:06,810 --> 00:06:12,410
and make those funds available for any other project. But the funds would stay in reserve.

73
00:06:12,410 --> 00:06:15,110
or they would not roll into the general fund.

74
00:06:15,570 --> 00:06:16,210
That's right.

75
00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:17,550
Thank you.

76
00:06:18,990 --> 00:06:19,650
Anybody else?

77
00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:23,360
Good.

78
00:06:25,300 --> 00:06:25,840
Very good.

79
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,940
Item C, Council discussion and proposed amendments

80
00:06:31,940 --> 00:06:34,740
to the town of Hamden Solid Waste Flow Control

81
00:06:34,740 --> 00:06:37,660
and Licensing Ordinance, public comment.

82
00:07:00,500 --> 00:07:01,760
Oh, it says push, huh?

83
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:02,780
In English.

84
00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:13,580
My question is, and I don't know if you can even answer it

85
00:07:13,580 --> 00:07:16,640
because last week you went into an executive session

86
00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:25,120
over this thing. So how are we the public supposed to know anything about what went on

87
00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:32,100
in order to make a comment? We should be knowing the public should know what's going on

88
00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:34,980
instead of going into executive session.

89
00:07:37,020 --> 00:07:37,140
Oh,

90
00:07:39,860 --> 00:07:42,660
this is something different. This has to do

91
00:07:42,660 --> 00:07:51,620
with the transfer station no this is an ordinance that we adopted in I think we

92
00:07:51,620 --> 00:08:01,940
rewrote it 2018 I'm not exactly sure now 2017 which dictates where solid

93
00:08:01,940 --> 00:08:08,140
ways that is generated in the town of Hamden has to be delivered to so by

94
00:08:08,140 --> 00:08:13,560
By state law, we're allowed to direct where the trash from Hamden goes.

95
00:08:14,380 --> 00:08:21,660
And as members of the plant, the Iberite slash coastal slash now it's municipal waste

96
00:08:21,660 --> 00:08:22,320
solutions.

97
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:30,780
We are a member, we're one of the 150 members of that, that is the chosen facility to accept

98
00:08:30,780 --> 00:08:31,360
our trash.

99
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:38,460
Okay so thank you but it would have been nice to have that discussion between the council

100
00:08:38,460 --> 00:08:44,360
first instead of putting it out to public comments, because the public, like myself, had no

101
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:44,720
idea.

102
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:46,580
So until now.

103
00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:48,070
All right thank you.

104
00:08:48,620 --> 00:08:49,020
Thank you.

105
00:08:58,260 --> 00:08:59,500
Council discussion.

106
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,560
I'd like to start, if the public's done,

107
00:09:05,740 --> 00:09:07,860
I'd like to start and ask this.

108
00:09:07,860 --> 00:09:12,160
This is the first time we've seen a red line version I heard you talk about before.

109
00:09:13,180 --> 00:09:20,380
Does this last, several sentences of your memo hold true, it should be noted that the

110
00:09:20,380 --> 00:09:24,960
substance of the ordinance is not being amended, the changes are mostly in merely to reflect

111
00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:30,980
the sequence of the facilities from the time that I know you know what it says because you

112
00:09:30,980 --> 00:09:31,320
wrote it.

113
00:09:31,420 --> 00:09:34,820
But from the time that he was leaving Perck and signed with the joint agreement with the

114
00:09:34,820 --> 00:09:40,380
right until now. So this red line version is basically just changing the names.

115
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:49,600
Correct. And changing, you know, there's a few grammatical corrections on that sort of thing

116
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:55,360
but also tenses, you know, like when the ordinance was written there were, there was language in there

117
00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:03,000
that stated that the coastal facility or the fiber-right facility will be constructed. And so that has

118
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,940
has been put into past tense, the facility has been constructed or was constructed.

119
00:10:08,100 --> 00:10:15,440
I can't recall exactly how it's worded, but it's just very base corrections, and of course

120
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:21,420
PERC is not in existence anymore, and coastal fiberite has gone through three different names,

121
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:29,120
so those changes are being reflected in the amendments that are proposed.

122
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:37,960
So that sentence that memo holds true that it's basically just changing, changing words and it's not changing the agreement any?

123
00:10:38,420 --> 00:10:38,700
No.

124
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,920
Okay, thank you. Eric, do you look like you have something you want to say?

125
00:10:42,420 --> 00:10:57,440
Well, no, I see what you're going and it was our conclusion that really there's no substantive changes that it's really more the grammatical errors and the renaming that would have been required based on the existing agreements and names of the companies.

126
00:10:58,060 --> 00:11:02,740
So, I do think it truly is there's no substantive changes that we need to be concerned about.

127
00:11:03,220 --> 00:11:09,100
Mark, I read the non-red line one and I just saw this one tonight.

128
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,860
So, I just wanted to make sure I didn't have a chance to look at it and see how much it had been changed.

129
00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:14,420
So, I was just checking on that.

130
00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:18,360
Well, I think let me address that.

131
00:11:18,500 --> 00:11:23,820
I think the reason we had the red line version is it was inadvertently excluded from our packet.

132
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:30,100
Yeah, and so had we had it then I don't think there would have been any confusion at all, but I can see where

133
00:11:30,100 --> 00:11:34,580
Where it is a little bit confusing because we got one that wasn't red line and now we got one that is red line

134
00:11:34,580 --> 00:11:41,780
So at least it gives the impression perhaps that maybe we're saying changes that we didn't see before but that that's truly not the cave

135
00:11:41,780 --> 00:11:47,380
That's that's all I'm asking. I just didn't get a chance to read it before the meeting so go ahead, please

136
00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:01,140
I just wanted to also just remind everyone that this is going to a public hearing because

137
00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:01,880
it's an ordinance.

138
00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:04,560
So we can't make changes until it goes to public hearing.

139
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:10,380
So there will be another night at which we could discuss any questions you might have.

140
00:12:10,380 --> 00:12:20,740
Right. So my point was, I read through this, it looks all fine. It was a quick, quick

141
00:12:20,740 --> 00:12:26,060
read, but I saw the medical errors that were done. I thought that was fine. The only

142
00:12:26,060 --> 00:12:34,800
question is that it seems very specific and I was just wondering, do ordinances have to

143
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:40,080
to be written with specific, let's say, vendors put in there,

144
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:41,860
or can they be written more generally

145
00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:44,900
so that we don't have to rewrite it

146
00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:48,220
when we have another change?

147
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,900
I think normally you can try to write something

148
00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:55,740
as generally as possible so that it's more global.

149
00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,900
At the time this was written originally,

150
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:12,500
We were in the process of signing the jointer agreement with Fibery and there were legal

151
00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:17,940
requirements that we had to meet in order to be a joining member and the flow control

152
00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:21,400
ordinance that we had back then was very, very outdated.

153
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,200
So our attorney wrote this ordinance.

154
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:25,800
He wrote the entire thing.

155
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,020
That was not done by town staff.

156
00:13:28,020 --> 00:13:34,600
It was a repeal and a replace of the original ordinance, so he put it in there.

157
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:41,540
So I left it in there and as a matter of fact this came up because this whole idea that

158
00:13:41,540 --> 00:13:47,120
it needed to be amended came up when we were notified of the plant that there was a

159
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:56,920
local hauler that was not delivering generated municipal solid waste from Hamden to the

160
00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:03,460
plant, they were taking it to another facility because they could get a better rate and it

161
00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:04,920
goes against our ordinance.

162
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:13,860
And so when that came to my attention along with Bangor, Brewer, and Orno, where all flow

163
00:14:13,860 --> 00:14:18,900
control communities, I sent it to the town's attorney again.

164
00:14:19,420 --> 00:14:25,300
And I said, do any of these name changes negate our rights under the ordinance, you know,

165
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:32,400
the subsequent names of all those facilities and he said no, but we'll clean it up and he actually

166
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,800
gave me the language to use. Okay. So.

167
00:14:45,020 --> 00:14:52,580
Exciting. Do you counsel review and update of town council

168
00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:59,120
of Rules of Procedure referred from the July 13th, 2026 Council Worship workshop, excuse

169
00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:59,360
me.

170
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:00,700
Public comment?

171
00:15:09,970 --> 00:15:34,610
Terry McVoy, 103, carry drive. In, I think I saw this in the rules and procedures where anybody can request that an item be put before the town council simply by requesting it. Did I read that correctly? Does that also apply for these workshops?

172
00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:39,960
How do I go about asking to have something that

173
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,980
to the agenda for that for this.

174
00:15:42,740 --> 00:15:45,240
I believe that is for workshops.

175
00:15:46,420 --> 00:15:48,080
I mean, I'm looking right now.

176
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:53,500
It's under section six.

177
00:16:04,070 --> 00:16:04,810
That could be wrong.

178
00:16:16,370 --> 00:16:20,670
Mr. Vice Chair, I think we brought up

179
00:16:20,670 --> 00:16:23,470
an interesting inadvertent elimination

180
00:16:23,470 --> 00:16:26,450
because you are right under section 3.2.

181
00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:28,550
Any subject may be placed on the agenda

182
00:16:28,550 --> 00:16:31,490
and it does specifically say council meeting.

183
00:16:32,050 --> 00:16:33,650
And I don't think that was ever the intent.

184
00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:54,050
So I think one of this, I'm going to write down that suggestion that quite frankly I think the same the same rules that apply to putting an agenda item in the council meeting should be available on a for the workshops as well, I would agree with that so my reading of it is that's probably an inadvertent slip, but I think you're absolutely right and pointing that up.

185
00:16:54,050 --> 00:16:59,750
I appreciate that because that aligns with my opinion that this is not a council meeting.

186
00:17:00,170 --> 00:17:08,590
So I'll make sure and I don't know who's going to be tracking the changes but I'll make sure that gets in.

187
00:17:08,990 --> 00:17:09,950
Thank you for consideration.

188
00:17:10,590 --> 00:17:20,530
One other issue is I don't recall seeing anything in the rules or the procedures or policy or anything like that.

189
00:17:20,530 --> 00:17:27,690
regarding councilor of communication with their constituents.

190
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:34,150
One of the reasons I'm here tonight is because I sent my town councilor,

191
00:17:35,170 --> 00:17:41,130
Cumberley, three emails in the last four or five weeks and got zero response.

192
00:17:41,870 --> 00:17:47,750
Now, they were either ignored or I guess we can blame it on IT and

193
00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:53,450
saying that these, you know, just didn't show up. That was why I was asking for, you

194
00:17:53,450 --> 00:18:00,410
know, the boy at the other day. But I would rather ask you directly, did you get my emails?

195
00:18:01,230 --> 00:18:03,830
I responded to you today, did you read my response?

196
00:18:05,870 --> 00:18:07,530
I responded. Oh, you responded today.

197
00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:15,050
I responded why? I didn't respond before. Okay. I give you an explanation why. And pull

198
00:18:15,050 --> 00:18:20,490
I can confirm the fact that I was not attending the meeting on July 13.

199
00:18:20,670 --> 00:18:22,270
Can you explain the gentleman?

200
00:18:22,370 --> 00:18:25,710
I'm not, excuse me, I don't care why you were here.

201
00:18:25,890 --> 00:18:26,550
That's not the point.

202
00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:33,290
No, but you, in your email, you also accused me of not being professional because I was

203
00:18:33,290 --> 00:18:38,950
not attending that meeting, so this is why I'm asking Polar to explain why I couldn't attend

204
00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:41,950
the meeting remotely, because I was not in the country, I was abroad.

205
00:18:42,870 --> 00:18:44,430
Can you explain the gentleman why?

206
00:18:44,430 --> 00:18:52,050
So, Councillor Cumberley did try to remote in, even though she was in Paris and it was

207
00:18:52,050 --> 00:18:56,470
midnight, she was trying to remote in, but our system was not letting her in.

208
00:18:56,970 --> 00:19:03,690
That was a legitimate, verifiable IT issue that was not Councillor Cumberley's fault.

209
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:11,830
She contacted me, the town clerk and Canisco, however, Jen Headart and Jen Headart had gone

210
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:17,250
home. I was in the meeting and Kanishkodin, he didn't get the message because she didn't

211
00:19:17,250 --> 00:19:23,410
have his direct phone number. So she was trying to access the meeting and I think prior

212
00:19:23,410 --> 00:19:28,930
to that, I think the emails that you had sent to her, you spelled her name wrong.

213
00:19:29,410 --> 00:19:33,430
Right, in the beginning. Yes, weeks and weeks and weeks ago, and I

214
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:40,050
corrected that. Yeah, so that's all I know. Okay, but I do know, I can verify that

215
00:19:40,050 --> 00:19:42,810
Councillor Coberley was trying to access the meeting?

216
00:19:43,410 --> 00:19:48,510
I appreciate that. That doesn't answer my question about the e-mails. And if you did respond

217
00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:54,030
to me, if you did send me one, I checked my e-mail at 4 o'clock this afternoon and there

218
00:19:54,030 --> 00:19:59,410
was nothing there. So maybe it was after I left. I don't know. I'll go back in a little.

219
00:19:59,430 --> 00:20:02,930
All of your worries are responded today.

220
00:20:03,770 --> 00:20:08,590
It was at 405 p.m. Okay. So it was after I looked.

221
00:20:08,590 --> 00:20:20,850
But Terry, also, as I know you've been a Councillor on the past, we have three Councillors at large too, so if you have any question you can call me, you know that anyways.

222
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:36,550
No, I do know that, and I appreciate that, however, I would prefer that my Councillor be responsive, you know, then at large, that's why you're there, so I appreciate it.

223
00:20:36,550 --> 00:20:42,670
Thank you to Paul did you did you had your hand up before you you all said

224
00:20:43,970 --> 00:20:45,050
Anybody else anything?

225
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:55,190
Well, they're still public. Is it still public? It is yes. I'm sorry. Go ahead

226
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:56,750
Please totally

227
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:01,240
got thrown for a loop Ron.

228
00:21:06,060 --> 00:21:06,980
Hi, do you summer street?

229
00:21:07,380 --> 00:21:12,960
Not questions, but we just observations I had four observations on this one which actually

230
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:15,420
Another example came up tonight

231
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:30,220
Under the Article 3 agenda, normally we have the public comment listed first, and I know a couple of times on fairly complex issues, and I know the council has modified this.

232
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:35,440
We've taken the public comment period after a council discussion just so that people can make informed comments.

233
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:44,140
So I don't know, is there flexibility in these rules to be able to, depending on sort of the tenor of the room to move the public comment period,

234
00:21:44,140 --> 00:21:49,800
either before or after council discussion on a topic, like Al stood up today.

235
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:53,740
So I was like, I'll tell you why I didn't, I didn't change it.

236
00:21:54,020 --> 00:22:02,400
I haven't changed anything tonight is because this is a, this is just a, I assume you've read that you've, you've obviously read this.

237
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:10,160
So you should you I would think that you'd have your comments ready to and and and if we if we do

238
00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,260
Public we do council discussion and then public comment afterwards

239
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:21,600
We typically get more public comment based on the council discussion and we have to go back and forth on that

240
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,400
So if as far as I'm as long as I'm doing this

241
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:29,080
So I think this flexibility is I

242
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,400
I could go with the rest of the council.

243
00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:34,240
And it seems like that's been the case in the meetings that I've been at.

244
00:22:34,340 --> 00:22:35,960
We've jumped them around and that's great.

245
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:40,240
So second comment was on the executive session.

246
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:44,060
And this came up just another week there with Councillor Jarvey.

247
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:50,800
I know we had a discussion afterward about so a couple of councilors missed an executive session

248
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,060
and couldn't talk about it in the public session and they didn't really have,

249
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,180
feel like they had enough information to vote on something.

250
00:22:57,180 --> 00:23:03,420
And so, we kind of talked informally about can you call an executive session out of sequence

251
00:23:03,420 --> 00:23:10,300
out of agenda to kind of clarify with counselors who may have been absent from my previous executive

252
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:10,700
session.

253
00:23:11,380 --> 00:23:15,540
And I think that's a great idea and we should try to keep that flexibility, but I don't

254
00:23:15,540 --> 00:23:18,620
know what Robert's rules allow us or what the council allows.

255
00:23:18,620 --> 00:23:28,620
But I assume that that item there on item, what is it, it's like J under Section 3,

256
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,860
is that put in there specifically to allow that flexibility?

257
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:38,440
We're trying to allow for the fact that the agenda can be modified to move an agenda item

258
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:39,540
where it's more appropriate.

259
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:39,960
Right.

260
00:23:40,220 --> 00:23:44,760
And what we face at that particular point is the agenda had already been improved

261
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:50,320
with where the executive session was and we recognize the short coming in that and are

262
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,760
trying to provide for the possibility that we need to make exceptions to that.

263
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:56,060
Yes.

264
00:23:56,260 --> 00:23:59,740
And you had mentioned that there might be some obscure rule or something that would allow

265
00:23:59,740 --> 00:24:03,880
to revisit that halfway through the agenda to schedule an exact assessment.

266
00:24:04,120 --> 00:24:04,160
Correct.

267
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,360
That's great.

268
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,780
And for example, I might also respond to that.

269
00:24:11,780 --> 00:24:29,540
For example, there have been times where we've had the town attorney here, so we'll have an executive session at the beginning of the meeting to allow for him to travel back, same thing with town staff, so we don't make them sit through until the end for the purpose of an executive session.

270
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:39,020
The third one pertains to, excuse me, Ryan I just wanted to, I think would be what you're

271
00:24:39,020 --> 00:24:48,300
getting at, sometimes like if you're in a court session and the judge notices that

272
00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:54,380
something's out of whack and he needs to talk to both lawyers, he'll stop the proceedings

273
00:24:54,380 --> 00:25:00,600
and ask council to come to the bench to have a private discussion,

274
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:02,980
church, mist, and so forth.

275
00:25:03,580 --> 00:25:06,200
So it's essentially like an executive session.

276
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,200
And so what I'm understanding is saying,

277
00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:12,400
which I think is an interesting idea

278
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:17,880
if we get into a situation like we had at our last meeting,

279
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,440
couldn't we buy boat of council stock?

280
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:40,080
And amend the agenda and say we like to go into the executive session so to bring up the rest of the council members that are present up to speed on what we're talking about, come out of the executive session and then carry carry on.

281
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,240
So that's my understanding of what you were.

282
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:43,440
That's exactly what I'm saying.

283
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:43,660
Okay.

284
00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:50,160
And, you know, I may have led to a different unanimous vote,

285
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,160
or maybe it wouldn't have been any difference, but it would have,

286
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,860
at least everybody could feel like they had the same information

287
00:25:54,860 --> 00:25:55,780
on the kind of concept.

288
00:25:56,140 --> 00:26:00,020
Well, I would suggest that when we review section 6.5,

289
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,880
refresh my memory on that, because right now that would not be a permitted

290
00:26:04,620 --> 00:26:07,700
under our current rules or procedure, that would not be a permitted motion.

291
00:26:08,180 --> 00:26:12,220
But I see what you're going, and I think it makes sense in light of what we've

292
00:26:12,220 --> 00:26:17,480
heard here is to allow for that as a permitted motion because what's

293
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,580
happening is you're interrupting a motion already on the floor and so what

294
00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:26,200
what are the permissible things and Roberts rules governs what is not

295
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,740
defined in our rules of procedure so if we agree our in agreement to put

296
00:26:30,740 --> 00:26:35,060
something in our rules of procedure that would account for something like this

297
00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:39,900
then it is something we could act on certainly out of out of order as long as it

298
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:41,540
is defined in section 6.5.

299
00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:42,000
Okay.

300
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,920
Can I ask a question?

301
00:26:46,740 --> 00:26:50,640
Paula is executive sessions.

302
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,960
Do they have to be announced in the,

303
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,780
I'm wanting to call it the minutes,

304
00:27:00,180 --> 00:27:02,620
but the agenda, so thank you.

305
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,880
Do they have to be announced in the agenda ahead of time

306
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:08,740
so that we can proceed on it?

307
00:27:08,740 --> 00:27:15,820
Because Ron, you were noting, can we just go back into executive session and I was taking

308
00:27:15,820 --> 00:27:23,140
that as being from a previous meeting or whatever, is that are there rules on that or are

309
00:27:23,140 --> 00:27:27,560
we starting to trample on the timeline of things?

310
00:27:28,220 --> 00:27:35,680
I think in hand in because you have rules of procedure outline how you run your meetings

311
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:42,280
and workshops and because you clearly delineate Robert's rules of order as you're guiding

312
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:51,620
procedure type manual I think you would have to follow what your rules say. Now I've

313
00:27:51,620 --> 00:27:59,520
worked in other towns where they didn't have such a detailed rules of procedure and a

314
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,340
Councilor or Sletman could call an executive session at any time during the

315
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:12,180
meeting if they needed to to discuss something. So it but you guys are very

316
00:28:12,180 --> 00:28:20,400
guided by your rules of procedure. I will say this when we get the section 6.5

317
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,980
it can't be called executive session because state statute dictates what an

318
00:28:23,980 --> 00:28:28,520
executive session is. So we're going to have to probably toy with the language a

319
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,500
a little bit and stay away from an executive session

320
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:33,760
because correct me if I'm wrong, Paula,

321
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,100
but I think that is mandated by state statute.

322
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,800
So when we get there, we'll have to tweak the language

323
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:40,260
a little bit.

324
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,120
We can't call it an executive session

325
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,140
as where I'm going with that.

326
00:28:43,780 --> 00:28:43,860
Thank you.

327
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,220
I've written a few notes too.

328
00:28:47,460 --> 00:28:50,220
And if maybe what solves this whole thing

329
00:28:50,220 --> 00:28:53,280
is you don't have an executive session without seven counselors

330
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,540
if you're going to have to revisit what people that missed.

331
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:58,180
You know what I mean?

332
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,120
Like it feels like you're just backpedaling.

333
00:29:00,940 --> 00:29:04,800
For counselors were in attendance and made a decision

334
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,060
to move something forward.

335
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,940
But I feel like it's in some ways.

336
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,340
And I don't mean this to be insulting,

337
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:16,460
but it's being kind of revisited what was the point

338
00:29:16,460 --> 00:29:17,980
of having that executive session

339
00:29:17,980 --> 00:29:19,940
with those four counselors in the first place.

340
00:29:19,940 --> 00:29:20,120
Yes.

341
00:29:22,940 --> 00:29:25,640
Do you want to address him?

342
00:29:26,060 --> 00:29:28,560
If you want to put up with this just for a second.

343
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:29,800
No.

344
00:29:31,540 --> 00:29:35,600
Gettling, John, you can't go back into an executive session.

345
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Just clarify that.

346
00:29:37,260 --> 00:29:39,320
That was my point in bringing that up.

347
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:39,620
Right.

348
00:29:39,620 --> 00:29:47,320
I thought that was being suggested by Ron and we were starting to walk down that and I wanted

349
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,940
the RFI, whether or not that was possible.

350
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:57,420
The other thing I just want to share with you, because it's on my mind, is we all have

351
00:29:57,420 --> 00:29:59,120
responsibility to balance.

352
00:30:02,290 --> 00:30:09,170
What's appropriate for what we're calling an executive session versus not losing our responsibility

353
00:30:09,170 --> 00:30:15,410
and obligation to keep the public informed. So, I want to be cautious about these discussions

354
00:30:15,410 --> 00:30:20,330
where, you know, I don't want anyone to walk away from this thinking, well, they're thinking

355
00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:23,950
if things get a little contentious, they just call an executive session, clear the room

356
00:30:23,950 --> 00:30:29,170
and figure it out. We need to be doing just the opposite. If we're going to have disagreements

357
00:30:29,170 --> 00:30:33,190
about things and bring different facts here, they need to be done out in the open.

358
00:30:33,710 --> 00:30:34,070
Absolutely.

359
00:30:34,510 --> 00:30:39,250
I know no one was advocating for that, but I actually agree with that.

360
00:30:39,470 --> 00:30:43,330
It could be where this conversation was drifting, and I didn't want to go there.

361
00:30:43,630 --> 00:30:43,910
That's all.

362
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:44,930
And let me be clear.

363
00:30:45,090 --> 00:30:47,910
I was advocating for higher flexibility.

364
00:30:48,290 --> 00:30:54,450
I just saw that issue at the last workshop, I guess it was, or it comes from me, and didn't

365
00:30:54,450 --> 00:30:58,610
know if there was an easy way out to resolve that and bring everybody up to speed that

366
00:30:58,610 --> 00:31:00,190
that felt like they needed to be up to speed.

367
00:31:00,430 --> 00:31:03,310
So if it's too complicated for that, then great.

368
00:31:03,550 --> 00:31:05,030
We did just going to have to get over it.

369
00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:13,150
The third one was this, where am I, F, Roman numeral I

370
00:31:13,150 --> 00:31:14,750
under section 3.7.

371
00:31:15,850 --> 00:31:17,030
And I think this is great.

372
00:31:17,370 --> 00:31:19,030
I just don't not really sure how it works.

373
00:31:20,110 --> 00:31:22,290
Council deliberation, a council member may yield to comments

374
00:31:22,290 --> 00:31:25,050
from the floor where additional information slash expertise

375
00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:26,530
may be relevant to the deliberations.

376
00:31:26,530 --> 00:31:34,590
So are we talking about an outside of a normal public comment period that we're going

377
00:31:34,590 --> 00:31:36,670
to engage in a discussion from the floor?

378
00:31:36,830 --> 00:31:37,690
I think that's great.

379
00:31:37,870 --> 00:31:41,350
I didn't know if you really want to entertain that or what.

380
00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:44,850
Do you see that as a workable?

381
00:31:45,970 --> 00:31:50,710
I think one of the reasons that is included is that very reason.

382
00:31:50,830 --> 00:31:55,730
We realize that in holding public comments before discussion that oftentimes

383
00:31:55,730 --> 00:32:25,130
oftentimes, particularly if ultimately we want to limit the amount of that original discussion that there's times where we need to essentially go back out to the public and ask for their expertise or input and we've never really provided for that Robert's rules does provide an opportunity to yield the floor council member can yield the floor and so it was my intent and at least suggesting that to make it an explicit part of our rules procedure.

384
00:32:25,730 --> 00:32:31,470
That when it's pretty apparent that we need to get some more information from the public, we now have an avenue to do that

385
00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:35,170
Okay, I applaud that that's great. Um, and then the final

386
00:32:38,950 --> 00:32:39,430
Yes

387
00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:54,250
Article 7 6.1

388
00:32:55,490 --> 00:33:01,430
Council members may serve no more than two consecutive full terms. I've never been a fan of term limits

389
00:33:01,430 --> 00:33:04,950
I'd rather vote somebody out who wasn't doing their job. Is there a reason?

390
00:33:04,950 --> 00:33:08,270
It was asked for by the public to at least discuss it.

391
00:33:08,390 --> 00:33:10,150
That's the only reason it's in there right now.

392
00:33:10,550 --> 00:33:14,950
The public has asked would you at least discuss this

393
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:18,270
as a council, so I included it has another agenda item

394
00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:21,070
because it was asked after the meeting, by the way.

395
00:33:21,290 --> 00:33:22,690
It was not part of this meeting,

396
00:33:23,130 --> 00:33:26,210
but at least three people from the Hampton community

397
00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:28,090
says have you ever discussed that?

398
00:33:28,750 --> 00:33:30,810
I reached out to our town manager

399
00:33:30,810 --> 00:33:33,210
and she's not aware of any such thing

400
00:33:33,210 --> 00:33:36,410
in other communities, but again, because the public

401
00:33:36,410 --> 00:33:38,390
had asked for it, I thought it was worth a discussion.

402
00:33:38,830 --> 00:33:40,430
I'm not a big fan of it.

403
00:33:40,990 --> 00:33:43,850
Well, I think there's, I understand where you're going,

404
00:33:44,010 --> 00:33:45,170
but that's why it's in there.

405
00:33:46,090 --> 00:33:47,270
Great, thank you very much.

406
00:33:48,410 --> 00:33:49,070
Thank you.

407
00:33:50,790 --> 00:33:51,530
Thank you, Ross.

408
00:33:52,650 --> 00:33:53,170
Yep, go ahead.

409
00:34:00,980 --> 00:34:02,980
Linda Fallon for 205 in Monroe Road.

410
00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:08,540
This is interesting, but it would be better if it does.

411
00:34:08,540 --> 00:34:13,560
I do know that this documentation is verbiage online to read, and I did go through this information,

412
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,920
but it would be more beneficial to the public if this was discussed among the counsel,

413
00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:24,980
prior to the public comment, and also, unless you want to do the public comment,

414
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,000
and then have a comment afterwards, because sometimes the discussion brings up actual items

415
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,060
that you need to address.

416
00:34:31,580 --> 00:34:36,760
There was something on, I think it is Article 3, said something about the limited time

417
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:45,120
Delimited time for the individuals or public to speak. I think it's three minutes. I don't know why we should not have that go to five minutes and set a three.

418
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:54,460
And the other comment I had was they said stated that comments while they are noted will not be answered at that meeting.

419
00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:03,160
Is there a time that something that is brought up at the meeting would be answered or how would you get an answer to any question you have what it have to go through an email.

420
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,220
I mean, that would be the only way you would get a response

421
00:35:06,220 --> 00:35:08,820
and wouldn't be from the council at any time.

422
00:35:09,700 --> 00:35:11,700
Workshop or at the council meeting.

423
00:35:13,850 --> 00:35:15,370
Are my doesn't have to address that, too.

424
00:35:16,730 --> 00:35:19,690
Well, I think this is very timely.

425
00:35:19,950 --> 00:35:21,810
I mean, this is the first thing I was gonna bring up

426
00:35:22,370 --> 00:35:24,790
during council comments, but since Ron,

427
00:35:25,350 --> 00:35:27,350
we just were answering Ron's questions

428
00:35:27,350 --> 00:35:29,390
but we're not supposed to do underneath.

429
00:35:30,210 --> 00:35:31,070
This is written.

430
00:35:31,510 --> 00:35:33,330
But unfortunately, when people come to speak publicly,

431
00:35:33,330 --> 00:35:39,050
They want to know these answers and they don't get them I totally agree so I I'm going to address this further

432
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:41,340
I think during council comments very good

433
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:42,250
I

434
00:35:44,070 --> 00:35:52,990
I'll touch on a couple of those things like the the public comment portion of a town council meeting

435
00:35:53,490 --> 00:35:56,190
Mm-hmm is I think different than

436
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,370
Public comments on these workshop agenda items such as tonight. That's why

437
00:36:02,370 --> 00:36:05,410
You can take something off topic at that time, right?

438
00:36:05,830 --> 00:36:06,690
In a council meeting.

439
00:36:07,570 --> 00:36:08,850
Yes, in a council meeting.

440
00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:10,490
Not on the agenda.

441
00:36:10,890 --> 00:36:12,450
But do you actually get a response?

442
00:36:12,970 --> 00:36:15,350
Typically, no, not during a meeting.

443
00:36:15,630 --> 00:36:17,470
It would be like, you could come in and say,

444
00:36:18,070 --> 00:36:21,070
I notice the stop sign is missing at the end of the Monroe Road.

445
00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:23,190
And it'd be okay, thank you for bringing that

446
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:23,710
to our attention.

447
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:25,950
But to have an actual question.

448
00:36:26,430 --> 00:36:27,270
As far as a discussion.

449
00:36:27,490 --> 00:36:29,010
Did you like to submit to the council?

450
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:32,050
You'd actually have to do it through the council's

451
00:36:32,050 --> 00:36:34,250
per person on your personal email

452
00:36:34,950 --> 00:36:36,850
or their email to the council.

453
00:36:38,290 --> 00:36:41,250
I think typically if something like that were to happen,

454
00:36:41,250 --> 00:36:44,890
then either myself or the chair or vice chair

455
00:36:44,890 --> 00:36:46,950
would say to me after the meeting,

456
00:36:47,330 --> 00:36:51,110
can you get an answer to that question?

457
00:36:51,530 --> 00:36:53,950
And then it would be responded to.

458
00:36:54,350 --> 00:36:55,830
But no people ask it.

459
00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:59,890
The reason public comment is typically not

460
00:36:59,890 --> 00:37:05,670
not a back-and-forth exchange is because you're bringing up something that's not agenda.

461
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:10,890
So the rest of the public has no notice of what that discussion is.

462
00:37:11,090 --> 00:37:18,070
And so they've been disenfranchised from the right to be here to hear that discussion.

463
00:37:18,350 --> 00:37:23,970
So if it was something that you really was really in depth, then it would need to come back

464
00:37:23,970 --> 00:37:27,530
can be put on an agenda to be discussed at a noticed,

465
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:29,230
properly noticed meeting.

466
00:37:29,910 --> 00:37:32,310
If it was in depth, but if it was just a question,

467
00:37:32,510 --> 00:37:34,170
a general question, I would think

468
00:37:34,170 --> 00:37:35,950
that the public would also like to know.

469
00:37:36,150 --> 00:37:38,670
The same principle applies, though,

470
00:37:38,830 --> 00:37:41,610
because what is, that's subjective,

471
00:37:41,890 --> 00:37:45,530
what you consider simple and what might be a little bit more

472
00:37:45,530 --> 00:37:47,450
in depth because maybe there's more to it.

473
00:37:47,790 --> 00:37:48,630
OK, so.

474
00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:49,930
All right, thank you very much.

475
00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:51,350
Thank you.

476
00:37:51,350 --> 00:37:55,180
anybody else?

477
00:37:58,210 --> 00:38:02,310
Okay. Now, let's have council discussion.

478
00:38:03,010 --> 00:38:09,590
You sure can. So yeah, I think this, I think Linda's and Ron's comments are

479
00:38:09,590 --> 00:38:15,530
a point of order before we just globally jump into this. This is a pretty

480
00:38:15,530 --> 00:38:20,610
detailed involved document and I'm wondering rather than just globally jump

481
00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:24,450
to hit and miss because we've all got good points.

482
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:26,750
Can we take this section by section?

483
00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:28,690
Yeah, it's my work down through it.

484
00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:31,350
I mean, I understand where we're going,

485
00:38:31,370 --> 00:38:33,830
but I'm fearful we're going to be bouncing back

486
00:38:33,830 --> 00:38:35,210
and forth across this document

487
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:39,010
which is going to make note taking for me impossible

488
00:38:39,010 --> 00:38:41,210
and for Paula probably next to impossible.

489
00:38:41,810 --> 00:38:44,230
So I would just ask that we go, Mr. Vice Chair,

490
00:38:44,290 --> 00:38:45,550
if we could go a section by section.

491
00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:49,570
Sure, you seem to have authored this.

492
00:38:49,570 --> 00:38:53,610
So why don't you take what you want you leave the conversation?

493
00:38:54,810 --> 00:39:00,250
Well, if there's no objections from my colleagues, I don't I certainly don't mind leading it,

494
00:39:00,250 --> 00:39:02,490
but are we are we okay with that process?

495
00:39:02,750 --> 00:39:04,490
Yeah, I'll remember my comments.

496
00:39:04,730 --> 00:39:09,110
Okay, and your absence Dennis, we were we decide we're going to go section by section.

497
00:39:09,250 --> 00:39:11,410
Okay, are we done with public comments?

498
00:39:11,710 --> 00:39:14,630
Yeah, yeah, I think we are.

499
00:39:14,930 --> 00:39:18,130
Yeah, just just to be good point.

500
00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:25,050
Okay. Are there any suggestions from council relative to section 1.1

501
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,380
basically is just

502
00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:32,680
defining when we start to do elections.

503
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,280
That actually was changed probably three years

504
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:46,320
ago because we used to do this in January instead of right after the elections and we realize

505
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:53,260
that that created a, it's actually a lame duck period for those councilors who

506
00:39:53,260 --> 00:39:58,000
were outgoing and so we really re-elect the idea here was in changing that

507
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:02,320
as to elect our leadership as soon after the election as possible.

508
00:40:09,850 --> 00:40:11,350
Section 1.2 is

509
00:40:11,350 --> 00:40:12,430
election of the vice chair.

510
00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:24,850
Section 1.3 generally governs how the chair and the

511
00:40:24,850 --> 00:40:30,550
vice chair so shall operate and deciding who wishes to speak and on motions and those

512
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:31,470
kinds of things.

513
00:40:36,340 --> 00:40:44,880
Article 2, section 2.1 and Paula I just had a question here particularly

514
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,640
relative to clerk and the Councillors will receive a copy. It seems to me I'm not sure this

515
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,240
is so that's what that's about Paula and I guess you need to address that.

516
00:40:54,240 --> 00:41:04,340
So this is in charter that council shall act by order ordinance or resolve so this language echoes charter.

517
00:41:05,740 --> 00:41:16,020
But also every vote is a resolution and all your minutes are dated by date of the calendar year 2020.

518
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,820
Oh no, we're on 2.1 now which is right.

519
00:41:18,820 --> 00:41:28,600
Okay. Yep. All right. So 2.2 is the forms of order. Right. But this is referring to it. Okay.

520
00:41:28,740 --> 00:41:34,800
Okay. So I'm sorry. That's okay. And it's referring to the should be dated numbered and signed by the town clerk.

521
00:41:35,020 --> 00:41:46,340
So your minutes are the resolutions in your in your minutes are dated 2026-01. Whatever vote number it is of the year.

522
00:41:46,340 --> 00:41:50,740
So it's dated and then the minutes are signed by the clerk typically.

523
00:41:51,420 --> 00:41:56,240
So it's a little bit loose, but I think the intent is there.

524
00:41:56,420 --> 00:42:01,160
You guys sign the council orders and then the clerk attests to them.

525
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,260
So like every year, when we do our housekeeping measures about who signs a payroll

526
00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:10,460
want, whether or not we can pay certain vendors every week like Motor Vehicle and

527
00:42:10,460 --> 00:42:19,500
and state agencies. You guys sign the council orders. Now I don't believe the clerk has

528
00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:24,840
been sending a copy of all of those orders to every councilor, but we can certainly go back

529
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:25,760
and-

530
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:31,000
Well, and I guess that's the point in lieu of how they're documented. Does the language

531
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:35,640
and the town councilors will receive a copy? Is that really necessary or is that in statute?

532
00:42:38,000 --> 00:43:05,320
I think the suggestion is there because of the way we can do things right now, the best approach might be consideration that it's all a matter of public record through the minutes and everything already, and it would just to implement that is just another task that the clerk would have to be, so that a specific suggestion is simply to strike the Councillors receiving the copy.

533
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:13,820
I might... Mark Eric, I'm not sure who... Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry. It just says receive a copy.

534
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:19,220
It doesn't say whether it's a written copy or electronic copy. So he might be reading

535
00:43:19,220 --> 00:43:27,460
too much into that my suggestion. Well, I suspected because of when this was originally

536
00:43:27,460 --> 00:43:31,420
that that was a hard copy. Yeah, but it doesn't say that. You're right, it doesn't say that.

537
00:43:31,420 --> 00:43:37,620
So, if we left it in there, then the electronic version would be suffice under there.

538
00:43:37,820 --> 00:43:40,140
So, I think there's reason to keep that language there.

539
00:43:40,420 --> 00:43:47,400
And I might suggest, rather than the word will, just leave it in, change the word will

540
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:56,220
to may, and that would leave it, the ability to request it from the clerk, and I think cover

541
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:00,700
both.

542
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:02,480
Okay.

543
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:03,180
Thank you.

544
00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:12,520
anything else on section 2.1 okay and then you've addressed 2.2 thank you all

545
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:18,960
I is is there any other questions from counselors on what on 2.2 and that was

546
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:22,200
just a clarification of why that has to be in there and I think you address

547
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:33,370
that so that's gonna stay yes okay under agenda section 3.1 we're we're

548
00:44:33,370 --> 00:44:46,230
We're pretty detailed in our agenda for our council business meetings, after tonight I think we might have to add a section here on the development of the agenda for the workshops.

549
00:44:47,150 --> 00:44:59,070
But the biggest thing was a clarification of what public comments was about and this is just language that had been floated around or

550
00:44:59,070 --> 00:44:59,970
are either or

551
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:29,900
I think our council chair does a good job of making it apparent that this section is provided for the members of the public to speak on items not covered on the agenda. It's not specific in our rules of procedure, and all I'm suggesting is maybe it should be. We are not very good about this. And given electronic media right now, I think we must insist that anybody speaking in the public states their name and address.

552
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:32,480
Yes and sometimes we've been lax on that.

553
00:45:33,460 --> 00:45:40,420
There's a comment tonight about the time limit and I think that's where the discussion.

554
00:45:40,660 --> 00:45:45,460
I put three minutes in there primarily because that's what the school board used and I think

555
00:45:45,460 --> 00:45:50,800
at one point we had a discussion about three minutes but we really have never tightly controlled

556
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:59,160
that in any fashion but related to that the comments need to be directed at the council chair

557
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:04,520
and follow rules of decorum, and then this is just again how things should be done relative

558
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,320
to receiving any comment and Councillor's interaction.

559
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:15,200
Comments are a matter of public record, and questions from Council will not be answered

560
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:15,780
at the meeting.

561
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:20,840
There's been some question as to what we want to do with that tonight, so and then I think

562
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:27,020
the other thing is whenever possible supplemental material should be provided, and I certainly

563
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:34,240
Members of the public have utilized this to our advantage and provided us with detailed supplemental material materials.

564
00:46:34,380 --> 00:46:40,120
And I think that's very important that we allow that and encourage that on behalf of the public.

565
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:50,420
So, again, I guess this is one of the things that I really wanted to have a discussion about.

566
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,540
Not so much I needed to make a particular point.

567
00:46:53,540 --> 00:47:00,880
But I really feel that we're always trying to encourage the public to come to these meetings.

568
00:47:01,220 --> 00:47:04,640
We want public participation in there.

569
00:47:04,980 --> 00:47:10,780
I've stood in front of Council before and presented lengthy testimonies and

570
00:47:10,780 --> 00:47:15,560
handed out a page of what written testimony.

571
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:44,480
and I think as Linda was saying earlier that there's some type of response, the public needs some type of response, and to say that we're not going to answer the question during the meeting, that may be because I understand why we want to do that because we want to limit time, but perhaps we can offer some type of comment after the meeting.

572
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:49,080
perhaps we can, you know, provide some type of written comment

573
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:53,620
after, you know, directly after the meeting.

574
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,080
I'm not really sure what the best solution to that is,

575
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,560
but I really feel that when somebody takes the trouble

576
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,820
to come up and provide a testimony,

577
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:05,880
and they're raising a number of questions

578
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,780
that they deserve some type of response.

579
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,440
Just as a point of clarification there,

580
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:21,620
I appreciate all of what you just said, but as Paula clearly stated, the intention

581
00:48:21,620 --> 00:48:27,600
is not to necessarily limit time, but to afford other members of the public who weren't

582
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:34,440
made aware previously if somebody stands up here and brings up a point to council, then

583
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:41,500
And they aren't afforded that opportunity to have their two cents heard during county council discussion.

584
00:48:41,780 --> 00:48:48,420
Right, but the rest of the public will have plenty of time once the opinion or

585
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:53,360
the answer is given to come back at subsequent meetings and offer a comment.

586
00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:58,260
I think different

587
00:49:00,340 --> 00:49:07,220
types of public comments can engender very different types of responses.

588
00:49:07,220 --> 00:49:26,280
I think it's hard to put all of these comments in one basket and assume we're going to be able to produce and I know no one's espousing this but it's going to be hard to produce a one-size-fits-all response.

589
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:45,480
some a simple point of clarification might take care of things others, the person is going to be imploring the council to do something or act on something or asking to consider some piece of legislation.

590
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:54,900
I don't think that during the public comments when we're hearing things extensively for the first time.

591
00:49:55,700 --> 00:50:02,160
that you're going to be able to commit to an answer at that point.

592
00:50:02,340 --> 00:50:05,800
I think it's supposed to be understood that we're going to hear it.

593
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:11,060
We're going to try and understand that we're going to take it under consideration and

594
00:50:11,060 --> 00:50:15,740
we'll move it through our process, including whatever we can do at that point in time.

595
00:50:15,740 --> 00:50:19,220
But we're going to move it through our process going forward.

596
00:50:19,220 --> 00:50:26,280
it. But do you feel that the public, you know, after we move through our process, they

597
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:34,360
still need to get some type of answer to that? Well, that may be a week or two weeks or

598
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:42,360
a month down the road as we go through stuff. And hopefully our process is as part of doing

599
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:47,080
I mean, what we have to do, need to do, want to do, we'll answer it.

600
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:49,200
I mean, that's how I see it.

601
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:49,740
Dennis?

602
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,580
I'm in agreement with a lot of what John's saying.

603
00:50:55,560 --> 00:51:01,500
I don't want to add that a lot of this is speaking to the role of the chair, facilitating a meeting.

604
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:08,580
And one of the binds you don't want to put anyone on the council end is to suddenly find,

605
00:51:08,580 --> 00:51:13,700
especially with hindsight the next day that they didn't have all the information to make a comment.

606
00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:18,080
They were out of line with three of their peers or whatever. So they're illegitimate reasons

607
00:51:18,820 --> 00:51:23,480
to not rush a town response to a question. Okay.

608
00:51:27,240 --> 00:51:32,920
The other thing I want to mention is two. I don't particularly care if it's three minutes or five.

609
00:51:33,740 --> 00:51:37,380
I think everybody knows we're trying to balance. We're trying to manage

610
00:51:38,820 --> 00:51:43,840
what can get out of hand at a very contentious meeting with too many people going on too long,

611
00:51:44,980 --> 00:51:50,500
versus giving people the time they may need to ask a question or make a presentation of information.

612
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:57,700
And what I would suggest is back to the role of the Chair, I would support a Chair looking at the fellow

613
00:51:57,700 --> 00:52:02,420
Councillors in saying in this case, I'd like to award this person another five minutes.

614
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,740
If we saw there was cause, we would agree with that.

615
00:52:06,740 --> 00:52:13,480
So that's another route that could be taken, the final thing I want to say because I hadn't

616
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:21,400
thought about it until very recently was public needs to talk directly to the chair.

617
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:30,460
I think the phrase in here is out of order otherwise and I just want to underline that for

618
00:52:30,460 --> 00:52:31,300
people to remember.

619
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:33,100
Thank you very much.

620
00:52:37,090 --> 00:52:47,730
I also just want to remind you that the reason that we are hearing that we are discussed

621
00:52:47,730 --> 00:52:53,790
the flow control ordinance tonight is because the meeting that it was originally on, there

622
00:52:53,790 --> 00:52:58,850
was so much public comment that you didn't get to it and you asked to postpone it.

623
00:52:58,850 --> 00:53:13,270
So if you have excessive public comment on items that are not on the agenda already, you are going to potentially slow down the workings of what you already have in motion.

624
00:53:14,370 --> 00:53:17,010
So I just wanted to remind you of that.

625
00:53:17,950 --> 00:53:27,310
I think we've had some good discussion here, but I would also like to remind council that Paul, the town manager is a spokesperson for council.

626
00:53:28,190 --> 00:53:34,990
And I think one of the things that we probably need to do in revisiting this is essentially

627
00:53:34,990 --> 00:53:43,350
when we receive these questions is then task, town, staff, then with responding on behalf

628
00:53:43,350 --> 00:53:49,250
of the council to the public comments in a timely fashion once the, because I think the

629
00:53:49,250 --> 00:53:55,410
point is has been well brought up. Should we expect an answer? I think we agree. But the

630
00:53:55,410 --> 00:54:05,030
The individual council members, as we've talked about, are really not the spokesperson for neither the council or the town and should not be placed in a position to have to answer that directly.

631
00:54:05,490 --> 00:54:12,710
But I think it would be reasonable to expect us to ask town staff to respond to those questions once they have the information.

632
00:54:13,330 --> 00:54:23,390
So I think we'll look at rewriting that to perhaps indicate how we'll process questions from the public so that they can expect a response.

633
00:54:23,390 --> 00:54:46,550
I got to interject here, I think I understand what you're trying to say as far as a response, and in some questions from public that may be the appropriate avenue to take, but I feel like in reality, the chair of the council would be the spokesperson of the council.

634
00:54:46,550 --> 00:54:58,050
And if somebody stands up with a public comment to, say, their district representative,

635
00:54:58,550 --> 00:55:05,610
and then we don't respond as a council during that public comment, then maybe it would

636
00:55:05,610 --> 00:55:11,450
be incumbent on the chair and that particular district representative, whether it's 1, 2,

637
00:55:11,450 --> 00:55:20,550
for your for whoever is addressed by the public to formulate a response I'm

638
00:55:20,550 --> 00:55:26,730
going to disagree with that perspective respectfully okay public needs

639
00:55:26,730 --> 00:55:32,590
consistency and they need perspective and I think the primary role of the

640
00:55:32,590 --> 00:55:37,930
chairs to conduct a meeting first section or the presection 1.3 there are other

641
00:55:37,930 --> 00:55:46,450
responsibilities as well, but in conducting a good meeting, those answers will eventually

642
00:55:46,450 --> 00:55:50,450
come, but I don't think they should come that way, in my opinion.

643
00:55:53,680 --> 00:56:00,300
Just a little bit, yeah, I would agree with Dennis's comment and yours that Paul really

644
00:56:00,300 --> 00:56:03,520
should be the spoke spokesperson.

645
00:56:03,660 --> 00:56:12,540
I would just request that when the town provides the answer that the council has made

646
00:56:12,540 --> 00:56:17,820
aware of what that answer is, you know, maybe it's my oversight, but I know that some

647
00:56:17,820 --> 00:56:24,200
questions, some testimony and questions have come up and presented to us, and I'm not quite

648
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,280
sure how they were ever resolved.

649
00:56:27,620 --> 00:56:33,480
So yeah, just so you get a note of what what actually was the answer would be great.

650
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:39,680
And I suspect that one venue for that might be the town manager's report but we can we can

651
00:56:40,170 --> 00:56:41,380
address those kinds of things.

652
00:56:41,380 --> 00:56:41,520
Right.

653
00:56:41,980 --> 00:56:42,580
Going forward.

654
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:43,220
Okay.

655
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:44,880
Good good discussion.

656
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:46,580
I have a comment.

657
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:47,200
Back to the.

658
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:49,740
And it can't wait.

659
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:51,980
Sure.

660
00:56:51,980 --> 00:56:52,820
I don't know,

661
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:05,900
actually, too, but the primary one is Paula is not my primary contact

662
00:57:05,900 --> 00:57:12,500
for information or responses from this town, from the town council or specifically my town

663
00:57:12,500 --> 00:57:19,680
councilor. I didn't elect her, no offense, but her opinion about anything really is irrelevant

664
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:26,540
to me. What is important is my town councilor's opinion, their position.

665
00:57:27,260 --> 00:57:28,780
That's what's important to me.

666
00:57:29,420 --> 00:57:33,440
So if I ask a question to my town councilor or even

667
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,460
to the council in general, I'm sure it'll be getting an answer

668
00:57:37,460 --> 00:57:39,120
from a town councilor.

669
00:57:39,580 --> 00:57:42,840
Now whether it's the chair or whoever volunteers to do it,

670
00:57:43,340 --> 00:57:45,840
but I expect an answer from my elected officials.

671
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:50,600
Second one is just briefly, as far as people coming up here

672
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:55,100
and identify themselves, we talked about this years and years ago,

673
00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:59,880
Well, I don't think it's a wise position to have somebody come up here and necessarily

674
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,240
give their address.

675
00:58:02,020 --> 00:58:07,480
That's kind of an sanctioned doxing type of thing, especially if it's an opinion that

676
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:12,180
is not widely supported elsewhere.

677
00:58:12,940 --> 00:58:14,640
So anyway, thank you.

678
00:58:23,450 --> 00:58:25,750
Any other comments on this section?

679
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:26,930
Yeah.

680
00:58:27,550 --> 00:58:28,830
The three minutes.

681
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:40,840
That's something that I, where I, I completely understand the reason for it.

682
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:48,340
In a, in a venue where we are trying to invite people to come in to share their thoughts.

683
00:58:48,340 --> 00:58:54,740
If it's not clearly stated that they may be allowed more time at the discretion of the chair

684
00:58:54,740 --> 00:58:59,600
Maybe we should bump that to five minutes as to not

685
00:59:00,460 --> 00:59:08,820
Well the the notes I've taken were to amend that already. Okay, that it can be extended at the discretion of the chair meeting chair

686
00:59:08,820 --> 00:59:12,480
Okay, and that's what I said section D2

687
00:59:13,140 --> 00:59:15,240
name and address maybe

688
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:21,560
the name and town of residents rather than physical address?

689
00:59:23,820 --> 00:59:24,700
Absolutely correct.

690
00:59:25,380 --> 00:59:28,860
And I think the way it's been done is your town of residents because we don't want people

691
00:59:28,860 --> 00:59:30,700
from Boston in here taking up our time.

692
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:33,620
I think what people from where?

693
00:59:36,910 --> 00:59:42,190
Well, the fact that what address is absolute, we shouldn't be asking for the address.

694
00:59:42,330 --> 00:59:43,350
I absolutely agree with that.

695
00:59:43,490 --> 00:59:43,710
Thanks.

696
00:59:43,710 --> 00:59:46,750
That's a valiant, valiant, sincere thing.

697
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:50,290
And that's been noted in the notes, okay?

698
00:59:50,930 --> 00:59:51,410
Anything else?

699
00:59:54,940 --> 00:59:55,620
Yeah, I'm sorry.

700
00:59:56,820 --> 00:59:59,780
I was thinking about Terry's and Paul's.

701
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:10,620
Comments, you know, combined. And, you know, I, I agree that individual counselors, if

702
01:00:10,620 --> 01:00:15,200
they're asking a question, they should be responding to their constituents, but at the

703
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:20,800
same time, we're not really speaking for the whole, our opinion is not speaking for

704
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:26,540
the whole council. So, I'm, I'm just wondering, you know, just, you know, going forward, if

705
01:00:26,540 --> 01:00:35,880
There might be some type of hybrid or maybe just an understanding that let's say my opinion

706
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:46,320
is this, but the rest of the council may be providing a slightly or completely different

707
01:00:47,460 --> 01:00:48,140
opinion.

708
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:56,340
So I think it's a fair comment, but I can't speak for the rest of the council.

709
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,380
I think you brought up a valid point.

710
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:01,700
How long does that go?

711
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:03,240
What do you mean?

712
01:01:03,500 --> 01:01:10,500
We sat here and received questions from the public that have extended on ad infinitum

713
01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:15,220
and then there's a risk of it becoming a back and forth between the member of the public

714
01:01:15,220 --> 01:01:16,980
and the council member, correct?

715
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:25,380
That's why I ask that the public address the chair and not direct comments and councillors.

716
01:01:25,380 --> 01:01:31,800
I'm talking about the final answer that that the council gives to a particular question.

717
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:32,200
Okay.

718
01:01:32,580 --> 01:01:35,800
So which may not be given at the meeting at all, so.

719
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:36,240
Okay.

720
01:01:36,740 --> 01:01:37,380
All right.

721
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:44,040
So there, so we do need to potentially debate and I would invite my council colleagues to

722
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,140
supply language at any time.

723
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:53,940
I'm more than happy to include it to help address some of these things because you've all brought

724
01:01:53,940 --> 01:02:23,540
I brought up some very valid points and I suspect that after tonight this is going to go through another workshop before it's original timeline was hopefully to get this on a council meeting but I think we're going to have to have another workshop to still fine tune it but I think I think you brought up a valid point what is the mechanism responding to comments either through town staff or individually council and I would I would I would ask for some help in writing that language. Okay. Thank you.

725
01:02:28,140 --> 01:02:43,340
The new business G was to address the idea that no originally the language is no new business will be acted on at its first reading and will automatically be tabled, except by a majority vote of counsel to suspend this rule.

726
01:02:43,340 --> 01:02:52,540
So the way it was originally written, Council could act by a vote to consider something at its first reading.

727
01:02:53,460 --> 01:03:03,280
And when I talk to Paula about this, there are special circumstances and time sensitive items where it does come before Council at that meeting.

728
01:03:03,780 --> 01:03:09,900
And just by virtue of rules of procedure, when staff says that this is a time sensitive issue,

729
01:03:09,900 --> 01:03:17,700
maybe that should be something that should be considered at that time, even though in theory constitutes the first reading.

730
01:03:20,340 --> 01:03:24,580
There was some discussion last time about that next bullet item in there.

731
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:30,240
Discussion at a previous workshop is analogous to the first reading and therefore emotion is in order for action.

732
01:03:31,540 --> 01:03:36,760
The public comment was that is not true and we ask for a potential legal opinion on that.

733
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:44,020
So Paula, if you could check in on that for a legal opinion, because at least in other

734
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:51,040
things that I have looked at, it has been considered that that was not analogous to the first

735
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:53,240
reading if it had been previously discussed before.

736
01:03:57,910 --> 01:04:08,110
New business, G item two, essentially, is how do we handle public comments related to new

737
01:04:08,110 --> 01:04:14,110
business. And I suggest it as a framework that we go back to how we handled public

738
01:04:14,110 --> 01:04:21,950
comments as a regular agenda item when it was non-agenda item related material. We may

739
01:04:21,950 --> 01:04:29,270
have to tweak that now because it is under new business as opposed to non-agenda items.

740
01:04:31,010 --> 01:04:36,990
And so if there's some specific changes that we need to think about in there, again I would

741
01:04:36,990 --> 01:04:45,050
I would ask maybe for some guidance on what kind of language that you might want to have in there because we have had discussions tonight about what that might look like.

742
01:04:45,910 --> 01:04:59,890
So I would hopefully, you'd be willing to send that to Paul, I'm not, I'm going to suggest that comments come to me and CCDU.

743
01:05:00,510 --> 01:05:05,350
Is that, would that be appropriate at this point in moving forward with this?

744
01:05:05,350 --> 01:05:07,590
A couple of comments that they want to answer for?

745
01:05:07,970 --> 01:05:09,990
Well, any comments from counselors,

746
01:05:10,330 --> 01:05:12,430
for changes in this rules of procedure,

747
01:05:12,770 --> 01:05:14,270
submit to me and CCU.

748
01:05:14,670 --> 01:05:16,110
Because you're the one drafting.

749
01:05:16,350 --> 01:05:20,330
Because I'm the one that's trying to keep track of it, okay?

750
01:05:20,690 --> 01:05:24,030
So before you open on to section three,

751
01:05:24,170 --> 01:05:25,270
council deliberation there.

752
01:05:28,570 --> 01:05:29,070
Where

753
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:35,560
the guidelines of the way this is written

754
01:05:36,720 --> 01:05:48,000
to revert back to 3-D-3-3, subsection 3, or whatever, I-I-I, some of that, you know, this

755
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:55,220
nation was founded on the idea of spirited debate, and there's been a lot of, in recent

756
01:05:55,220 --> 01:06:02,260
years, especially since COVID, First Amendment violations by boards like this and by school

757
01:06:02,260 --> 01:06:11,700
boards of trying to stifle people's public comment, so I would just caution the council

758
01:06:11,700 --> 01:06:14,220
against laying out too many

759
01:06:18,510 --> 01:06:23,550
guidelines or out-of-balance boundaries of how the public

760
01:06:24,030 --> 01:06:30,910
is able to come in and interact with their elected officials, whether through the use

761
01:06:30,910 --> 01:06:36,810
of profanity or any other type of somebody wants to come in and speak their mind, they

762
01:06:36,810 --> 01:06:39,050
should be entitled to come in and speak their mind.

763
01:06:39,390 --> 01:06:47,230
Now granted, we have etiquette and rules that we need to follow, but I don't know that

764
01:06:47,230 --> 01:06:53,150
it's our place to try to limit first amendment protected speech.

765
01:06:54,110 --> 01:06:54,930
Opinion noted.

766
01:06:55,610 --> 01:06:56,810
Do you want to provide some language?

767
01:06:57,250 --> 01:06:57,350
Yep.

768
01:06:57,350 --> 01:07:00,590
Okay. Any other comments?

769
01:07:04,870 --> 01:07:06,750
Okay. Council deliberation.

770
01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:23,090
We don't often, well, by default this may happen, but too often it doesn't happen. Quite frankly, this is a fallacy in the way we currently do our motions. Now, I will just be upfront about you.

771
01:07:23,090 --> 01:07:32,590
So we say the chair of the meeting essentially reads the motion, and I so move, and there's a second.

772
01:07:34,820 --> 01:07:40,420
Now that's rules, I mean, that's how we've done this as long as I've been on council, and I get why it's done.

773
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:46,480
But quite frankly, if we were strictly following Robert's rules, that would not be the way it happens.

774
01:07:46,480 --> 01:07:52,960
And oftentimes I have to ask the forgiveness of the chair to alter what's written in the agenda

775
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:56,880
to include language that absolutely needs to be in there,

776
01:07:56,980 --> 01:07:59,740
like no greater than, you know, and those kinds of things.

777
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:02,840
That's a huge demand on us as counselors

778
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:05,720
to actually recite the motion as we intend it,

779
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,100
but that quite frankly, that's the way

780
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,820
if council wishes to move that direction it should be.

781
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:15,700
The thing that really needs to be done is if you're willing

782
01:08:15,700 --> 01:08:19,780
to make the motion, you have the opportunity

783
01:08:19,780 --> 01:08:21,780
to speak to that motion first,

784
01:08:21,780 --> 01:08:28,500
And that was the original intent of you making the motion as you actually had the opportunity to do to defend your motion.

785
01:08:29,180 --> 01:08:40,340
And I think whether we continue with our current procedure or we choose to go some other direction, whoever sits in that and the chair position should always allow the maker of the motion to speak.

786
01:08:40,820 --> 01:08:43,200
I have the privilege to speak to that motion first.

787
01:08:44,380 --> 01:08:51,000
question on other boards that have been then on usually the chair actually requests for

788
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:56,400
emotion isn't that they were entertain emotion and that it's actually illegal for the the

789
01:08:56,400 --> 01:09:02,480
chair to be making emotion that that has come from from others or quite frankly for the

790
01:09:02,480 --> 01:09:09,320
chair to make emotion they have to yield again yes yes that's absolutely right the way

791
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:17,760
If we were doing it correctly, our agenda item would be more global in nature and then the chair would ask, is there a motion?

792
01:09:18,700 --> 01:09:23,500
To which time the Councillor would state the specific language of that motion and then there would be a second.

793
01:09:24,420 --> 01:09:37,160
This is also where I think we need to allow for the fact that we've already discussed that there's probably an appropriate time where a council member may yield to comments from the floor

794
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:43,260
to help clear something up or clarify a situation particularly when they're

795
01:09:43,260 --> 01:09:47,640
providing information and expertise which may not be relative to any

796
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:54,300
information we have and so that's what's in there right now and so I think we

797
01:09:54,300 --> 01:09:59,640
need to think about how we want to approach this as a council moving forward and

798
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:06,260
how in fact we we act on motions and ultimately then that impacts what our

799
01:10:06,260 --> 01:10:10,500
agenda. Now I'm not saying we necessarily have to change the agenda item but a chair

800
01:10:10,500 --> 01:10:15,180
might be more global in just saying what the agenda is and quite frankly that the council

801
01:10:15,180 --> 01:10:20,560
member could probably use that language then as their template for developing their motion.

802
01:10:21,220 --> 01:10:32,660
Right. So I'm not so Paula. I think that's how it was intended originally. I mean I've

803
01:10:32,660 --> 01:10:41,680
I never worked in a town that wanted the agenda item so exact in order to help make the motion.

804
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:57,660
As when I came here and I'm not that's not a slight but it's I'm just saying that sometimes it's very hard to write the agenda item to capture what it is that somebody might make for a motion.

805
01:10:57,660 --> 01:11:03,580
And it's really, this should be a guide, and the motion should come from you.

806
01:11:03,980 --> 01:11:04,120
Right.

807
01:11:04,860 --> 01:11:05,000
Right.

808
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:12,200
I was just, I like where this is going, and I don't have the perfect verbiage yet, and

809
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:20,100
I'm probably never will, but if the agenda came to us, night of the meeting, with the substantive

810
01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:26,400
content of what needs to be acted on, with appropriate reference, if there's one to a town

811
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:31,480
ordinance of one to a state law or something that none of us is going to have off the top of our head.

812
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:38,440
Then we should be able to word that in such a way to make a coherent motion that can be acted on.

813
01:11:38,980 --> 01:11:42,460
My only detailed question has to do with amending things.

814
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:49,340
So if it says agenda one is A, and I made a motion that changed the wording a little bit,

815
01:11:49,580 --> 01:11:54,500
would I have to seek permission to amend the agenda before I made a motion?

816
01:11:54,500 --> 01:12:06,840
The under this process, the agenda is actually just a suggested topic reference.

817
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:13,000
And the council members should probably would use that as their template and crafting

818
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:13,640
their language.

819
01:12:13,880 --> 01:12:16,060
It would not require an amendment in the agenda.

820
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:24,380
And once the motion is on the floor, an amendment is always in order to clarify that or to change

821
01:12:24,380 --> 01:12:25,260
it in some fashion.

822
01:12:27,100 --> 01:12:33,160
Just an observation, you know, the way that we've been doing it for the chair actually

823
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:35,880
presents the motion is really efficient.

824
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:38,640
It's very efficient.

825
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:45,860
It moves it along and when you start having individuals make the motion, in my experience,

826
01:12:46,620 --> 01:12:52,000
you know, most people kind of fumble around for a while to get the wording right and it really

827
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:57,140
kind of drags the process and that's why I want to and that's why I want to

828
01:12:57,140 --> 01:13:01,300
caution us about changing but if you go back and review all of our council

829
01:13:01,300 --> 01:13:06,420
minutes for the past nine years but I'm going to go we've specifically to when

830
01:13:06,420 --> 01:13:12,060
I've come back on that council in general there's three people that I'm three

831
01:13:12,060 --> 01:13:20,260
counselors who who make the motion and second it and if I was out in the

832
01:13:20,260 --> 01:13:23,420
The public, you know, I would say, well, okay, what's going on here?

833
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:29,420
I know I have to laugh because when I first came on, you know, I was watching this where

834
01:13:29,420 --> 01:13:36,000
Kiki would second it and then I go, wait a minute, anybody could second this, so I offered

835
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,160
it and I got this strange look from Kiki, what are you doing?

836
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:43,920
So yeah, yeah.

837
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:49,740
The all third procedure will definitely impact the smooth flow of the meeting.

838
01:13:49,740 --> 01:13:53,820
There's no doubt about it, and I'm willing to suggest that we continue with that if

839
01:13:53,820 --> 01:13:56,320
council is willing to, and that's where we're at.

840
01:13:56,440 --> 01:14:02,300
But even if we do that, the councilor who makes the motion should still be in a position

841
01:14:02,300 --> 01:14:03,140
to defend it.

842
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:12,740
The other thing that we don't do is the public never knows whether we support a motion

843
01:14:12,740 --> 01:14:14,700
or we are not in favor of the motion.

844
01:14:14,700 --> 01:14:22,320
And I think as much as possible, I always try to say I rise in support of the motion or

845
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:24,040
I rise in opposition to the motion.

846
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:30,340
So it's pretty clear to the public where me as an at large council member stand on

847
01:14:30,340 --> 01:14:30,760
a motion.

848
01:14:30,860 --> 01:14:36,600
And I would encourage my council colleagues, again, when you speak to something, is I rise

849
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:40,380
in support or I rise in opposition for the following reasons.

850
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:47,820
And that provides some information to the public that they need in transparency is to

851
01:14:47,820 --> 01:14:50,840
where the individual council members sit and the reasons why.

852
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:52,520
Where do you have a made up your mind yet?

853
01:14:53,300 --> 01:14:54,400
And you don't have to do that.

854
01:14:55,840 --> 01:14:59,240
But if you made up your mind, I think we certainly need to express that.

855
01:15:00,270 --> 01:15:04,090
Any other things, Matt? I don't think so. Okay.

856
01:15:07,540 --> 01:15:31,460
The next, uh, Jay is the whole issue of the executive session. And I think we're going to have to go back and look at this in a little bit more detail. But in essence, the executive session was always at the end of the agenda because we didn't want to have to disrupt the public's attendance. We didn't, we oftentimes we have our lawyer here, so it was intuitively. It doesn't make sense to have it at the end.

857
01:15:31,460 --> 01:15:37,020
And when we need those people to provide that executive session business and then leave.

858
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:43,380
So, and again, before the agenda is approved, any council member can amend the agenda.

859
01:15:43,580 --> 01:15:47,000
And that's essentially pointing that out.

860
01:15:49,300 --> 01:15:55,960
And it is simply by a majority of council members present during the meeting to move an agenda item.

861
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:04,960
I meant to bring up something. It's not even here, but it fits better with where we were

862
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:14,660
a minute ago. It struck me that we're always putting John on the hot seat when we vote.

863
01:16:15,380 --> 01:16:22,060
It always goes down there. And he's all alone out in left field having to make a decision.

864
01:16:22,060 --> 01:16:26,820
When we get to sit back and think, what's he going to say, and do I want it, you know,

865
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:34,540
I would just suggest, I don't have any huge issue about this, but I would suggest that

866
01:16:34,540 --> 01:16:43,300
when the chair calls for vote, he does so in or she does so in a sort of random way, and

867
01:16:43,300 --> 01:16:45,640
does it by, you know, almost a polling method.

868
01:16:46,420 --> 01:16:53,360
Councilor Coveley, you know, Councilor Swallick said it said rather than always going, well

869
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:54,700
John, prove or disprove.

870
01:16:55,300 --> 01:16:56,680
And then we all just jump on.

871
01:16:57,100 --> 01:16:59,740
But anyway.

872
01:16:59,920 --> 01:17:05,600
Julie noted, and I think that should become a part of our rules of procedure that it is

873
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:05,960
randomized.

874
01:17:08,380 --> 01:17:12,160
It does make good sense for the reason you talked about it.

875
01:17:12,160 --> 01:17:20,920
So, in John Evoche, for what it's worth, I follow the conversations pretty closely.

876
01:17:21,640 --> 01:17:22,600
I've been very comfortable.

877
01:17:23,320 --> 01:17:30,300
And I have to admit, there was one time we called for a vote, and this was only a month or two ago.

878
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:35,080
And I had drifted and was thinking about something previously.

879
01:17:35,080 --> 01:17:41,100
and I just asked, you know, I forget how I said it.

880
01:17:41,180 --> 01:17:42,860
Remind me where were we, whatever.

881
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:47,000
But other than that one time, I felt very comfortable.

882
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,220
I knew what I wanted to do.

883
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:54,180
So I appreciate it, but I wasn't really feeling any pressure.

884
01:17:54,180 --> 01:17:56,920
For the record, I was not trying to insinuate anything

885
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:57,700
like that either.

886
01:17:57,820 --> 01:18:00,980
No, no, Will, if you had insinuated it for one time,

887
01:18:00,980 --> 01:18:02,340
you would have been exactly right.

888
01:18:03,660 --> 01:18:10,600
Okay, Section 3.2, we've already received the input that we have to address the opportunity

889
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,480
for the public to add agenda items to workshops.

890
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:17,840
I think that's the major change that will be included there.

891
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:25,580
And in an analogous fashion, when a member of the public asks for something on the workshop,

892
01:18:25,580 --> 01:18:30,740
then who recommends it would be on there as a matter of process as well?

893
01:18:31,500 --> 01:18:35,980
As far as the member of the public or the councilor at which they've sent the request

894
01:18:35,980 --> 01:18:36,360
through?

895
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:38,520
Because they can request directly, too.

896
01:18:38,740 --> 01:18:40,280
Well, in that case, it comes from you.

897
01:18:42,540 --> 01:18:48,040
That doesn't change anything if the recommendation for the agenda item comes from the councilor,

898
01:18:48,140 --> 01:18:52,000
even if it's passed through from one of your constituents.

899
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:59,280
What I think was intended, if an agenda item directly goes to the town manager or the chair

900
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:03,000
from the public that now we would allow for that,

901
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,420
but it does include who it comes from is what I'm asking.

902
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:10,760
Yeah, so we have, I'm sorry, I jumped right in,

903
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:12,100
but we have done that before,

904
01:19:12,400 --> 01:19:15,760
where members of the public have asked us to recognize

905
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:17,860
a person for something,

906
01:19:18,460 --> 01:19:22,960
or would you consider assigning a proclamation or a resolve

907
01:19:23,420 --> 01:19:26,100
and that's come directly to me from a member of the public

908
01:19:26,100 --> 01:19:28,700
and I've included their name as requested by...

909
01:19:28,700 --> 01:19:34,860
Correct, and that's that's particularly appropriate under news presentations and awards, but this it actually pertains specifically to

910
01:19:36,040 --> 01:19:44,180
I guess new business kind of thing like this all right. I was just wondering you know about the process sort of that and

911
01:19:44,860 --> 01:19:51,600
The purpose of a district councilor is supposed to be representing your district so certain fees requests come to the district

912
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:56,260
Councilor it's kind of like to do in the legislature and and just a

913
01:19:56,260 --> 01:20:02,380
counselor then we'll bring that up in the in the next next rather than just

914
01:20:02,380 --> 01:20:05,880
that's an interesting that's an interesting approach is that any

915
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:10,660
recommendations from the public should come true your respective either

916
01:20:10,660 --> 01:20:14,540
district council member or at large member right that way that is suggesting

917
01:20:14,540 --> 01:20:18,700
yeah because that way we'd have a little maybe some time to to discuss the

918
01:20:18,700 --> 01:20:23,160
matter, understand it. That probably is an appropriate approach to address.

919
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:34,300
I guess I just keep circling back in my mind to the softball field request that the

920
01:20:34,300 --> 01:20:40,420
coaches requested town's participation in that whole project that we did.

921
01:20:43,050 --> 01:20:44,730
The location

922
01:20:44,730 --> 01:20:48,770
of that project might have been different district

923
01:20:48,770 --> 01:20:54,150
than where that coach lived or coaches.

924
01:20:55,770 --> 01:21:00,120
I guess in an attempt to keep it simple

925
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:02,340
but without over complicating it

926
01:21:02,340 --> 01:21:05,000
by building too tight of a framework

927
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:06,980
that wouldn't allow for a more question.

928
01:21:06,980 --> 01:21:11,020
If I wanted something done in district four,

929
01:21:11,380 --> 01:21:13,460
could I not go through that large council member

930
01:21:13,460 --> 01:21:14,460
to introduce that agenda?

931
01:21:14,460 --> 01:21:15,240
Absolutely.

932
01:21:15,820 --> 01:21:20,840
So I guess that's what's being suggested here is that either through your respective

933
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:28,000
district council member or an at large council member, that you ask that this agenda item

934
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,760
be specifically placed on the workshop agenda.

935
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:31,120
Yes.

936
01:21:31,480 --> 01:21:31,580
Yes.

937
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:32,180
Right.

938
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:32,460
Yep.

939
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:32,960
Yep.

940
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:33,660
Okay.

941
01:21:37,090 --> 01:21:38,410
3.3.

942
01:21:43,970 --> 01:21:50,090
We'll go back to the legal opinion on the first reading, and we'll, we got to wait

943
01:21:50,090 --> 01:21:51,390
for a legal opinion on that.

944
01:21:54,130 --> 01:22:02,230
3.5 and this council has exercised this setting aside for an individual discussion.

945
01:22:02,230 --> 01:22:07,970
the consent agenda is intended to act on business which is really pretty much

946
01:22:07,970 --> 01:22:12,790
pro forma as a rubber stem. However there are going to be instances where

947
01:22:12,790 --> 01:22:17,830
a council member wants to discuss something specifically and you've always

948
01:22:17,830 --> 01:22:21,390
provided them the opportunity to pull that out of the consent agenda and

949
01:22:21,390 --> 01:22:26,590
discuss it individually so I don't see any changes necessary there. Any

950
01:22:26,590 --> 01:22:31,970
agenda item can be taken up out of order by consent of councilors present. The

951
01:22:31,970 --> 01:22:35,630
workshop agenda, how we conduct that.

952
01:22:36,530 --> 01:22:38,750
The way our agenda is done right now

953
01:22:39,530 --> 01:22:43,190
is really not in our rules of procedure at all.

954
01:22:43,410 --> 01:22:46,930
So basically what I did there is I took how we currently do.

955
01:22:47,170 --> 01:22:50,710
For example, we never taught in the current planning rules

956
01:22:50,710 --> 01:22:54,290
of procedure, there's no mechanism for planning

957
01:22:54,290 --> 01:22:55,630
and CEO status report.

958
01:22:55,810 --> 01:22:57,810
So I just simply lifted what we're doing there

959
01:22:57,810 --> 01:23:00,310
and put it in section 3.7.

960
01:23:03,070 --> 01:23:07,450
4.1 simply talks about when council meetings are

961
01:23:07,450 --> 01:23:21,290
conducted 4.2 is when workshops are conducted. Let's see 4.2 B we

962
01:23:23,370 --> 01:23:24,110
did not

963
01:23:24,110 --> 01:23:28,630
allow basically for votes in workshop and we now know that we have to

964
01:23:31,630 --> 01:23:42,490
I just also want to question whether or not there needs to be a definition of I know we've loosely touched on it meetings special meetings and workshops.

965
01:23:45,070 --> 01:23:53,210
Okay, you're probably right. I don't definitions of meetings special meetings and workshops section 3.7.

966
01:23:57,020 --> 01:24:01,920
Okay, I'll go back and we'll look at that because I don't think I even talked about that.

967
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:13,240
However, deep in my mind should be struck in its entirety because we've never specified

968
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:18,360
the 4th Monday as to the specific agenda and I'm looking to Paula's.

969
01:24:18,740 --> 01:24:23,160
I don't even know why I think I know why it ended up in there but it's not.

970
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:27,980
Our workshops have always been open to whatever subject

971
01:24:27,980 --> 01:24:29,040
we're important to address it.

972
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:33,220
Correct. I think when we very first went to the workshop

973
01:24:33,220 --> 01:24:37,280
structure, we were trying to alleviate that

974
01:24:37,980 --> 01:24:41,020
always having a fourth meeting of the month.

975
01:24:41,420 --> 01:24:41,620
Okay.

976
01:24:41,860 --> 01:24:44,920
So that's where that came from. Do you recall that?

977
01:24:45,900 --> 01:24:49,360
And so we said, well, let's limit it to matters

978
01:24:49,360 --> 01:25:14,100
that retain to infrastructure or economic development that type of thing, and might need more discussion, but I think to your point, as time wore on, and items came to me or staff that we needed or felt that we needed to bring to you before an actual meeting in the interest of time, we've just included other items besides infrastructure and...

979
01:25:14,100 --> 01:25:18,860
And frankly, now Amy's reports are always on it no matter what workshop.

980
01:25:19,140 --> 01:25:20,700
She's always on the agenda item.

981
01:25:21,180 --> 01:25:21,380
Right.

982
01:25:21,700 --> 01:25:25,300
Okay, so right now, I would support the idea of just striking that set.

983
01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:25,700
Okay.

984
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:27,460
John.

985
01:25:28,020 --> 01:25:28,840
I'm sorry, John.

986
01:25:29,460 --> 01:25:31,200
I agree.

987
01:25:31,480 --> 01:25:35,560
I think limiting it to Mondays is just the limitation.

988
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:39,000
It actually could result in a time delay.

989
01:25:39,380 --> 01:25:43,080
I think you could do it the second Monday or the fourth Monday.

990
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:50,800
I think we're all here, we're all capable of doing all those things, any of those Mondays

991
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:52,760
and so in an effort to move things along.

992
01:25:53,040 --> 01:25:59,400
I would strike the fourth one day idea, you know, we just got to be cognizant when you're

993
01:26:00,020 --> 01:26:04,880
blowing up the schedule and you're on the fifth page of the schedule, you know, having to be

994
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:14,640
Okay. Section 4.3, to my knowledge, workshops have always been optional in attendance. We

995
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:19,920
certainly encourage everybody to attend, but right now in rules and procedure, workshops

996
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:27,440
are optional but will be counted towards attendance for those who are in attendance. Any suggestions

997
01:26:27,440 --> 01:26:37,200
And this is what Paul is referring to section 4.4 and probably even 4.5 as we need some

998
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:44,960
clarification on definitions of what constitutes a special meeting and what constitutes a workshop.

999
01:26:45,700 --> 01:26:52,000
I think the ad hoc in my time that I only remember an ad hoc committee being put together

1000
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:57,840
at once. But I think we should still keep it in there just in the off chance we need it.

1001
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:10,420
Anything on? Okay. Section 5 is meeting decorum. As a matter of courtesy, it's just keep

1002
01:27:10,420 --> 01:27:21,200
our cell phones off, those kinds of things. I personally believe that 5.2 should stay in

1003
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:26,060
And our rules are procedure on the off chance that we haven't thought of something, but

1004
01:27:26,060 --> 01:27:31,120
it's covered in Robert's rules, and it will allow us to handle that, agree.

1005
01:27:33,380 --> 01:27:40,900
5.3, the only thing there is, I say, as a point of emphasis is we need to remind both

1006
01:27:40,900 --> 01:27:44,080
members of the public and council members that we address the chair.

1007
01:27:44,380 --> 01:27:47,180
We don't get in verbal debates with each other.

1008
01:27:50,480 --> 01:27:52,660
and everybody's in disagreement with that.

1009
01:27:53,740 --> 01:27:55,540
And this is just meeting not workshop.

1010
01:27:59,480 --> 01:28:03,640
I would say, what are your thoughts?

1011
01:28:08,750 --> 01:28:11,870
I guess my thoughts are workshops are intended

1012
01:28:11,870 --> 01:28:15,350
for the free flow of ideas back and forth.

1013
01:28:15,890 --> 01:28:19,650
OK, so meeting's only doesn't apply to workshop.

1014
01:28:19,910 --> 01:28:20,430
What you're suggesting.

1015
01:28:20,870 --> 01:28:21,070
Yes.

1016
01:28:29,250 --> 01:28:33,390
I guess it's a little bit confusing.

1017
01:28:33,390 --> 01:28:40,450
I agree that we should address the chair, but if I'm trying to address something question

1018
01:28:40,450 --> 01:28:49,230
or statement that another individual counselor raised that I can ask the chair for permission

1019
01:28:49,230 --> 01:28:58,950
I don't know, do we really need to talk and like the third person to the chair and not directly?

1020
01:28:59,130 --> 01:29:09,290
If you want to strike, I think there's some merit in open communication and open debate and first amendment and all that kind of good stuff.

1021
01:29:09,590 --> 01:29:17,850
So if I'm just saying that that probably came out of Robert's rules originally, is that you address the chair?

1022
01:29:17,850 --> 01:29:24,890
And I think maybe if the verbiage was in a way just to draw

1023
01:29:27,580 --> 01:29:31,400
blank, address the chair

1024
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:33,820
to open,

1025
01:29:36,070 --> 01:29:40,690
you know, to be recognized, to be recognized, for speaking, and then once

1026
01:29:40,690 --> 01:29:46,850
you're recognized by the chair that the microphone is yours, you can address any and all

1027
01:29:46,850 --> 01:29:59,880
Councillors if you wish or Paula or a department head if they're standing up to but rather than just addressing

1028
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:29,980
The department head at the podium, you would be recognized by the chair first before engaging in. The only thing I would add to that, I like where it's headed. But we would each basically get sanctioned to speak by, in essence, getting permission from the chair. And I think when we do that, it would be helpful at times to specify what's coming next. In other words, Mr. Chair, I would like to address the point.

1029
01:30:29,980 --> 01:30:37,020
point, a council of chance made earlier, you know, something other than just my turn to

1030
01:30:37,020 --> 01:30:37,640
go when I go.

1031
01:30:37,980 --> 01:30:38,060
Yep.

1032
01:30:38,460 --> 01:30:39,020
You know what I mean?

1033
01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:39,520
Yeah.

1034
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:40,140
Yeah.

1035
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:43,500
Yeah.

1036
01:30:44,420 --> 01:30:49,040
So it sounds like we don't need to change anything here, other than just how perhaps how the

1037
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:52,260
chair recognizes council members.

1038
01:30:52,860 --> 01:30:56,800
The one thing that's a little bit more difficult in a small body like this and particularly

1039
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:00,720
because of the way we hold the liberations is that technically the chair should try to

1040
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:04,020
balance deliberations between those in favor and those against.

1041
01:31:04,460 --> 01:31:04,560
Yes.

1042
01:31:05,220 --> 01:31:10,820
I know that's difficult sometimes, but I would certainly encourage whoever's sitting in the

1043
01:31:10,820 --> 01:31:17,640
council chair to try to provide for balanced deliberations on any motion on the floor,

1044
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:26,040
which is why, and again, it's not always evident or maybe you're undecided, but you've got

1045
01:31:26,040 --> 01:31:27,200
to get your opinion out there, I agree.

1046
01:31:30,100 --> 01:31:38,560
Let's see John I'm sorry John is I'm a little ignorant is that a requirement

1047
01:31:38,560 --> 01:31:44,520
for a suggestion from Robert's rules of orders but where does that come from the

1048
01:31:46,040 --> 01:31:51,940
Robert's rules is the one that suggests to try to have a balance in deliberations

1049
01:31:51,940 --> 01:32:00,260
Okay, I think that the fear is, and we see this in a guest on committee meetings, the

1050
01:32:00,260 --> 01:32:07,720
last people to speak are oftentimes in the position to really drive the vote.

1051
01:32:07,900 --> 01:32:09,920
There's no balance between pros and cons.

1052
01:32:10,180 --> 01:32:15,340
It's chair sets who the speaking order, and if you've ever participated in one of those

1053
01:32:15,340 --> 01:32:17,000
you go, well, what the heck is going on here?

1054
01:32:17,000 --> 01:32:23,980
I was 72 minutes ago, and the last speaker is diametrically, the last 10 speakers are

1055
01:32:23,980 --> 01:32:24,900
diametrically opposed.

1056
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:28,300
So, it went possible there should be some balance as I was suggesting.

1057
01:32:28,780 --> 01:32:29,020
Okay.

1058
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:30,100
I just, yeah.

1059
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:35,140
Historically, I just didn't know that, so I learned something, thank you.

1060
01:32:37,240 --> 01:32:43,780
Five point four is just basically how we speak to staff, and there's only been one time

1061
01:32:43,780 --> 01:32:52,760
where this was really in my estimation abused and I would just remind counselors that we

1062
01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:58,640
speak to staff and everybody appropriately. No business can be conducted without a

1063
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:04,560
quorum. Now this is an important one and I haven't suggested any changes but in our

1064
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:12,560
current rules of procedure it's the number of the quorum is defined as a simple majority

1065
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:17,880
the council and so a simple majority of this council is for that's a

1066
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:25,480
quorum okay now and I think we discussed this earlier if we only have for

1067
01:33:25,480 --> 01:33:33,680
here in a council meeting and particularly for an agenda item that might be

1068
01:33:33,680 --> 01:33:38,160
controversial it be who's the council members to suggest that that be

1069
01:33:38,160 --> 01:33:41,740
table until more of Council is present.

1070
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:48,500
But quite frankly, we can conduct business with four with the caveat that Dennis brought

1071
01:33:48,500 --> 01:33:54,680
up about all the variations of how you vote, and I'm going to point this out.

1072
01:33:54,780 --> 01:34:00,960
If we only have four Council members present and what abstains, and two vote yes, and one

1073
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:04,980
votes no, two Council members have passed the vote.

1074
01:34:07,420 --> 01:34:12,720
So we have to be very careful about how we conduct business because right now our rules

1075
01:34:13,540 --> 01:34:19,820
say that we can conduct business with a quorum, but you can see where it could get very,

1076
01:34:19,820 --> 01:34:27,860
very challenging in the eyes of the public because a two-to-one vote would enact an ordinance

1077
01:34:28,640 --> 01:34:31,100
because of the one abstention or whatever happened.

1078
01:34:31,100 --> 01:34:36,400
So now the

1079
01:34:38,830 --> 01:34:44,330
way that the way we might handle this is if the chair sees that we're down the

1080
01:34:44,330 --> 01:34:49,470
four council members with the consent of council we may not even make the motion we should

1081
01:34:49,470 --> 01:34:56,630
automatically just move it to the next council council meeting and not even approach this but

1082
01:34:56,630 --> 01:35:03,170
in the course of debate it may become apparent that it needs to be tabled and that would

1083
01:35:03,170 --> 01:35:09,150
to provide that venue, but I'm open to thoughts on anything.

1084
01:35:11,460 --> 01:35:14,180
Bring up a recent situation.

1085
01:35:14,460 --> 01:35:16,500
It was an executive session, so I'm not

1086
01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:18,960
going to mention anything specific.

1087
01:35:20,580 --> 01:35:26,780
We had four council members present,

1088
01:35:27,660 --> 01:35:29,940
and there was a motion.

1089
01:35:29,940 --> 01:35:39,440
It was presented as time sensitive and listening to the discussion it was.

1090
01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:48,100
So after discussion there was a vote, it was four to zero, nobody abstained.

1091
01:35:48,300 --> 01:35:52,260
We all heard what had to be said and it was passed.

1092
01:35:52,620 --> 01:35:54,560
I was personally comfortable about it.

1093
01:35:54,920 --> 01:35:59,400
I didn't talk to any of the other council members who were there that evening.

1094
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:05,460
But is that something you may have clarified for the benefit of the public?

1095
01:36:05,740 --> 01:36:06,080
Thank you.

1096
01:36:06,140 --> 01:36:10,380
There never was a motion because we can't vote in executive session.

1097
01:36:10,480 --> 01:36:10,600
Oh.

1098
01:36:10,900 --> 01:36:19,420
What there was was a request is what how does the council members present wish

1099
01:36:19,420 --> 01:36:21,720
to proceed in this time-sensitive issue?

1100
01:36:21,820 --> 01:36:22,140
Okay.

1101
01:36:22,260 --> 01:36:23,680
There was never a formal motion.

1102
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:23,980
Right.

1103
01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:25,420
Because you're right.

1104
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:25,780
Yeah.

1105
01:36:25,780 --> 01:36:30,820
OK, so for the members of the public, we didn't violate our rules because there never

1106
01:36:30,820 --> 01:36:31,480
was a motion.

1107
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:32,300
Yeah, yeah.

1108
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:40,600
So, but the four who were here agreed that the time-sensitive nature of this dictated

1109
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:45,700
that a portion of that discussion did need to be considered at the next council meeting

1110
01:36:45,700 --> 01:36:48,840
which led to the challenges we had there incorrectly.

1111
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:52,820
I understand that, but that was what came out of that.

1112
01:36:52,820 --> 01:36:54,060
But we did not.

1113
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:56,140
It was not a formal motion because we couldn't do that.

1114
01:36:56,540 --> 01:36:56,660
Yeah.

1115
01:36:57,080 --> 01:36:59,900
So any other thoughts, Dennis?

1116
01:37:00,080 --> 01:37:04,020
I just want to offer support for what you were saying about how to conduct this in the

1117
01:37:04,020 --> 01:37:10,400
different votes, postponing, tabling things for reasons that if you wrote that all down,

1118
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:11,140
I would go yes.

1119
01:37:12,500 --> 01:37:13,200
Thank you.

1120
01:37:21,190 --> 01:37:21,670
Okay.

1121
01:37:25,650 --> 01:37:26,130
Okay.

1122
01:37:26,590 --> 01:37:30,530
5.6 basically goes into how we vote.

1123
01:37:30,530 --> 01:37:33,170
No vote can be taken without a motion on the floor.

1124
01:37:33,930 --> 01:37:38,290
Matter of fact, no business can be conducted without a motion on the floor, which for

1125
01:37:38,290 --> 01:37:42,250
the benefit of the public means we can't even open discussion until we've had a motion

1126
01:37:42,250 --> 01:37:46,950
on the floor, which is why we're having this whole discussion about how, in fact, we need

1127
01:37:46,950 --> 01:37:50,370
to do motion so that we can begin to have the discussions that we need to have.

1128
01:37:52,550 --> 01:38:00,470
In the past, the chair asked all in favor, all opposed, but there's been, and then the

1129
01:38:00,470 --> 01:38:03,010
The current rules of procedure allow for those present.

1130
01:38:04,050 --> 01:38:15,530
And the modified language is actually to strike that and go to an alternate form which is

1131
01:38:15,530 --> 01:38:22,010
abstention, recusal, or present as the last choice.

1132
01:38:23,810 --> 01:38:30,170
Now I will remind council that I came on here under a special election.

1133
01:38:30,170 --> 01:38:35,790
in February, and you had a very significant discussion on a very, very important issue,

1134
01:38:35,970 --> 01:38:38,070
which had voted on it, my very first meeting.

1135
01:38:39,350 --> 01:38:43,570
There was no way I could have been privy to that discussion, because I wasn't on council.

1136
01:38:44,810 --> 01:38:50,150
And in fact, I voted present, and I remember some of you looked at me and said, what's

1137
01:38:50,150 --> 01:38:50,630
going on here?

1138
01:38:51,950 --> 01:38:58,490
There is a provision for you simply to vote present when you are not in a position to essentially

1139
01:38:58,490 --> 01:39:01,630
the vote either in favor or opposed.

1140
01:39:01,950 --> 01:39:05,270
But what's more important is that there are other things

1141
01:39:05,270 --> 01:39:07,790
that can, other ways you can vote.

1142
01:39:08,970 --> 01:39:11,510
Abstention is when the council member is present

1143
01:39:11,510 --> 01:39:13,030
and is counted towards the quorum,

1144
01:39:13,950 --> 01:39:16,210
but you opt out as selecting yes or no.

1145
01:39:17,010 --> 01:39:20,270
Now you can see very quickly where if somebody voted

1146
01:39:20,850 --> 01:39:22,690
in this case to be abstention

1147
01:39:22,690 --> 01:39:25,530
and there was only four members in the quorum

1148
01:39:25,530 --> 01:39:26,810
were down to three voting members.

1149
01:39:26,810 --> 01:39:28,890
So you can see how this kind of impacts it.

1150
01:39:28,970 --> 01:39:31,230
But anyway, that's what an extension is about.

1151
01:39:31,910 --> 01:39:34,710
Basically, it's employed when you lack sufficient information

1152
01:39:34,710 --> 01:39:36,850
or wish to avoid being the loan to center.

1153
01:39:37,610 --> 01:39:38,610
That's possible.

1154
01:39:39,310 --> 01:39:41,090
Or have a minor division of interest

1155
01:39:41,090 --> 01:39:43,750
without rising to a strict conflict of interest.

1156
01:39:45,150 --> 01:39:48,590
The next one is recusal, which is the highest standard

1157
01:39:48,590 --> 01:39:50,110
of non-participation.

1158
01:39:50,690 --> 01:39:54,870
You are removing yourself from debate and deliberation.

1159
01:39:56,290 --> 01:40:01,090
recusals should be declared at the time the motion is made and you should

1160
01:40:01,090 --> 01:40:07,450
excuse yourself from the day is no why do we have to excuse ourselves from the

1161
01:40:07,450 --> 01:40:12,410
day it seems like I'm just saying how it would normally be done okay all right

1162
01:40:12,410 --> 01:40:19,590
and I've had to do that believe me but a chair who's pointing me down there and said

1163
01:40:19,590 --> 01:40:24,450
you're off the day so if we have used this in the past but normally that's how it would

1164
01:40:24,450 --> 01:40:30,830
be done. Obviously, you can't vote. It tends to pertain to conflict of interest, but there

1165
01:40:30,830 --> 01:40:36,630
could be other reasons. But quite frankly, when I usually see it views, it's when there's

1166
01:40:36,630 --> 01:40:44,970
a direct financial conflict of interest. In my case, it was a personal conflict of interest.

1167
01:40:45,530 --> 01:40:53,230
And so you're essentially avoiding any appearances of bias. And I think excusing you from the

1168
01:40:53,230 --> 01:40:57,730
the day is just eliminating that perception is what I think is meant by

1169
01:40:57,730 --> 01:41:00,810
excusing you from the day and we don't have to do that. I'm just I'm just

1170
01:41:00,810 --> 01:41:06,030
chairs. Well, we have to leave the room. No, no, no, no, no, no, just join the

1171
01:41:06,030 --> 01:41:16,030
general public. I don't see anything about the chair or the council voting to

1172
01:41:16,030 --> 01:41:19,990
make that determination. This is kind of the honor system. I see this one.

1173
01:41:22,730 --> 01:41:23,210
We

1174
01:41:23,210 --> 01:41:28,650
You're right. At this point in the proposed language, Council doesn't approve or disapprove

1175
01:41:28,650 --> 01:41:33,670
that. It is an honor system. I think we're in a little bit of a difficult situation for

1176
01:41:33,670 --> 01:41:38,870
Council to make a decision when there's a conflict of interest. But we could do that if you wanted.

1177
01:41:39,370 --> 01:41:43,030
But you're putting that Council member in a very difficult position to say, you must go.

1178
01:41:43,990 --> 01:41:45,090
It is my opinion.

1179
01:41:46,290 --> 01:41:46,850
If there's a conflict.

1180
01:41:46,850 --> 01:41:52,610
No, no, no. Wait a minute. What I'm saying is there may be in time when another

1181
01:41:52,610 --> 01:41:58,910
Councillor or a majority of the Councillor or multiple Councillors feel that another

1182
01:41:58,910 --> 01:42:05,030
Councillor has a conflict of interest. That other Councillor has not recuse

1183
01:42:05,030 --> 01:42:10,270
themselves. They're sitting here. Yeah. And I don't see any language addressing

1184
01:42:10,270 --> 01:42:15,470
that. We had an instance years ago and this is, I won't make the names, but I'll tell you

1185
01:42:15,470 --> 01:42:20,430
what happened because it's minor but it's indicative where there was discussion

1186
01:42:20,430 --> 01:42:28,310
by counsel about whether or not to enter into kind of a contract with a private vendor.

1187
01:42:29,530 --> 01:42:35,410
And one of the counselors involved had a close family member who was a part of that

1188
01:42:35,410 --> 01:42:35,930
initiative.

1189
01:42:36,550 --> 01:42:42,990
And we discussed that and reached a vote that that person did in fact have a conflict

1190
01:42:42,990 --> 01:42:49,650
with the interest. I'm just saying for tonight, I don't see language addressing that in here, and I think it should be.

1191
01:42:50,850 --> 01:42:58,790
Well, you know, to address Dennis's point, wouldn't that just come up as a point of order if someone on council

1192
01:42:58,790 --> 01:43:07,950
felt that the other councilor had a conflict of interest, and then that would be discussed. Do we need something other than that?

1193
01:43:07,950 --> 01:43:08,750
So

1194
01:43:12,780 --> 01:43:16,660
I may I don't I don't know all the details of the maneuverings, but what you're

1195
01:43:16,660 --> 01:43:19,840
suggesting is the mechanism may already be there. You just take advantage of

1196
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:24,440
something that exists and say, right, this is what a point of order. Okay, I'm

1197
01:43:24,440 --> 01:43:27,880
going to I'll let the rabbits rule the guy who's gone to that.

1198
01:43:31,670 --> 01:43:33,410
John. Yeah, if you told

1199
01:43:33,410 --> 01:43:39,950
another consular, I believe you have a conflict of interest. You then have to put

1200
01:43:39,950 --> 01:43:48,090
into place a mechanism to address that if the person did not agree with you or

1201
01:43:48,970 --> 01:43:56,450
really wanted to fight that perception or judgment, so and I think that's

1202
01:43:56,450 --> 01:44:05,570
another layer of a can of words. I'm not sure why wouldn't that be debate and

1203
01:44:05,570 --> 01:44:12,470
a vote. Right. Or I guess it could be. Well, but it's not something I've experienced

1204
01:44:12,470 --> 01:44:19,650
in this kind. Okay. My, my, my, Robert's rules side of me says that's a huge conflict

1205
01:44:19,650 --> 01:44:24,630
because you've already got a motion on the floor that you have to act on. So you couldn't

1206
01:44:24,630 --> 01:44:29,050
take a separate vote on conflict of interest with a, with a motion on the floor. Could it

1207
01:44:29,050 --> 01:44:35,170
be tabled until we could be table until that was resolved. But, but because those in, in

1208
01:44:35,170 --> 01:44:39,010
essence are two separate distinct topics you couldn't you couldn't do a vote

1209
01:44:39,010 --> 01:44:43,030
outside the current motion on the floor unless it was table I think I came

1210
01:44:43,030 --> 01:44:49,530
off the table. I will look into that quite frankly in my experience it's

1211
01:44:49,530 --> 01:44:53,590
always been left up to the individual but I see where you're going and calling

1212
01:44:53,590 --> 01:44:58,070
a point of order as to whether there is a potential conflict of interest is

1213
01:44:58,070 --> 01:44:59,970
Certainly, I'll look into it.

1214
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:29,980
Okay. And we do a good job of the chair announcing the outcome and the voting results. For the benefit of the public, you'll notice that we now do a roll call vote. And we don't simply raise hands. And that was an outcome of COVID. Because when we were strictly televising the outcome, we didn't have any.

1215
01:45:29,980 --> 01:45:33,580
audience never knew when we raised our hands who was voting how and so this

1216
01:45:33,580 --> 01:45:38,160
council went to a roll call vote and so it's a matter of record then for the

1217
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:45,280
public how council votes and a motion will only be judged to pass when a

1218
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:50,080
majority of those vote in favor. So again a two one vote could essentially

1219
01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:51,460
result in emotion passing.

1220
01:45:54,540 --> 01:46:01,980
Section 5.8. I love your suggestion. I don't know why I can't

1221
01:46:01,980 --> 01:46:09,880
name PM. But that is cruel to our staff. I think I know there was a time when they probably

1222
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:16,280
went to 10 p.m. But essentially council meeting shall not extend beyond 8 p.m. without unanimous

1223
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:22,500
of council president and at least in my conversations about what's going on

1224
01:46:22,500 --> 01:46:27,040
recently there's only one instance where council even went beyond 8 p.m.

1225
01:46:27,420 --> 01:46:31,000
so quite frankly I think we're doing a good job of getting our business done

1226
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:34,520
in a timely fashion so we can get staff out the door a lot to change our bathroom

1227
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:45,060
breakdown no no for me to clock oh six point two is alternating between someone in

1228
01:46:45,060 --> 01:46:48,700
favor someone opposed and we talked about that. Let's see.

1229
01:46:51,360 --> 01:46:56,820
And then, well, let's go to Article 7. And again, I know this was brought up. I think

1230
01:46:56,820 --> 01:47:04,040
it's, and again, I have no vested interest in this except we solicited input on the public.

1231
01:47:04,160 --> 01:47:10,300
And this is the one thing that clearly, at least three members of the public said, have you

1232
01:47:10,300 --> 01:47:17,040
ever thought about council members being limited to no more than two consecutive terms.

1233
01:47:17,420 --> 01:47:21,920
And I wanted some explanation at least what they gave me is that well if you sit out

1234
01:47:21,920 --> 01:47:23,880
a term then you can come back on the council again.

1235
01:47:24,740 --> 01:47:29,340
And I at least at the time said well I'm willing to put it on but let me give you my opinion

1236
01:47:29,340 --> 01:47:36,920
we can have a tough time getting council members to even run but it's worth the discussion

1237
01:47:36,920 --> 01:47:38,700
and because the public's asked for this.

1238
01:47:39,180 --> 01:47:41,080
So I'm, well, hey, go ahead.

1239
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,200
Yeah, well, I would speak in opposition to it

1240
01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:44,660
for some of the reasons you just said.

1241
01:47:44,800 --> 01:47:48,380
I think it's difficult enough to get people to step up,

1242
01:47:48,580 --> 01:47:49,820
you know, and serve on council.

1243
01:47:50,460 --> 01:47:54,460
And the other reason is that there is a bit

1244
01:47:54,460 --> 01:47:56,100
of a learning curve here, you know.

1245
01:47:56,440 --> 01:47:58,620
I'm still struggling on things

1246
01:47:58,620 --> 01:48:00,780
and what I can do and what I can't do.

1247
01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:04,100
What's in my, what's in my, my peer review.

1248
01:48:04,100 --> 01:48:07,860
So it takes a while to get to get going.

1249
01:48:08,520 --> 01:48:11,280
And I think if you have a really good counselor

1250
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:16,420
and they're serving the public,

1251
01:48:16,700 --> 01:48:19,960
they should be able to continue to serve the public.

1252
01:48:19,960 --> 01:48:23,520
And I agree with the statement that John made earlier.

1253
01:48:24,020 --> 01:48:24,820
He's doing a lot of his job.

1254
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:25,880
People can vote him off.

1255
01:48:28,850 --> 01:48:29,430
What is that?

1256
01:48:30,450 --> 01:48:30,870
Dennis?

1257
01:48:31,170 --> 01:48:33,810
I've always felt we always have had term limits

1258
01:48:33,810 --> 01:48:34,910
and that's called voting.

1259
01:48:38,150 --> 01:48:43,830
This is just a, I don't know what you call it, a point of order, but I'm not sure this

1260
01:48:43,830 --> 01:48:49,590
should be Article 7 in the town council rules of procedure.

1261
01:48:50,410 --> 01:48:58,510
You know, everything else, Article 1 through 6 is, how do you conduct the council meeting,

1262
01:48:58,850 --> 01:49:02,190
will you address, so that's a good point.

1263
01:49:02,370 --> 01:49:03,730
This is probably going to be a charter.

1264
01:49:04,970 --> 01:49:15,650
Yeah, you're right, this is like, you know, I'm reading this and it's like cat, cat, cat, dog, you know, this is just a totally different animal.

1265
01:49:15,870 --> 01:49:20,090
If we even wanted to consider this, you're absolutely right, this would even be a child.

1266
01:49:20,630 --> 01:49:25,210
It would even be in rules of procedure, so that essentially kills it in rules of procedure anyway.

1267
01:49:25,850 --> 01:49:32,510
It is interesting to your point and I believe me, I understand that we struggle.

1268
01:49:32,510 --> 01:49:39,850
So, but at least one of the public comments was, well, if, and I'll pick a district, if

1269
01:49:39,850 --> 01:49:45,030
District 3 had no candidates, because of term limits, it isn't somebody going to step

1270
01:49:45,030 --> 01:49:48,530
up, as opposed to just letting the incumbent stay there.

1271
01:49:48,730 --> 01:49:50,370
And I had no response to that.

1272
01:49:50,750 --> 01:49:54,910
It was their counter to my argument about we struggle to get candidates to run, as all

1273
01:49:54,910 --> 01:49:55,230
I'm saying.

1274
01:49:55,390 --> 01:49:55,510
Right.

1275
01:49:55,910 --> 01:49:58,730
Well, as a District 3 representative, nobody stepped up.

1276
01:49:59,850 --> 01:50:01,510
Well, I'm sorry I chose that.

1277
01:50:01,510 --> 01:50:06,190
No, that's okay, but no, I'm just saying you're, you know, nobody is necessarily step up.

1278
01:50:06,950 --> 01:50:13,190
And I think that's, and we need to be very, very encouraging to reach out to the public

1279
01:50:13,190 --> 01:50:19,790
and encourage them to run for office, you know, because we do need Kennedy.

1280
01:50:20,130 --> 01:50:23,050
So, okay, so that's where we're at right now.

1281
01:50:23,510 --> 01:50:30,390
Some of you are going to provide input to me and copy Paula.

1282
01:50:30,390 --> 01:50:37,670
And with what we've done tonight, I'm going to suggest to our Vice Chair that this be

1283
01:50:37,670 --> 01:50:44,590
recommended as another workshop agenda item at our first workshop in August.

1284
01:50:45,110 --> 01:50:50,110
Then we, I think, attend as for continued discussion on the updated language.

1285
01:50:50,650 --> 01:50:57,350
I do think, from a timeline perspective, for the counselors that are present, I think

1286
01:50:57,350 --> 01:51:01,690
I think we owe it to whoever is elected in November

1287
01:51:01,690 --> 01:51:03,930
that we brought these rules for seizures to closure.

1288
01:51:04,610 --> 01:51:08,110
I don't think this is something that we should be hanging on.

1289
01:51:09,350 --> 01:51:11,450
But I think we're on a good timeline.

1290
01:51:11,770 --> 01:51:14,370
We've got a good start on it, and I think we can accomplish that.

1291
01:51:14,730 --> 01:51:16,890
So with that, I'll turn it back over to the right.

1292
01:51:16,890 --> 01:51:17,330
Thank you, sir.

1293
01:51:18,350 --> 01:51:24,030
This time I would entertain a motion to enter into executive session

1294
01:51:24,030 --> 01:51:30,950
in person to one MRS, MSRA, Subsection 4, 5, 6, C, Economic Development to include the

1295
01:51:30,950 --> 01:51:33,050
town manager requested by Chair LaChance.

1296
01:51:35,060 --> 01:51:35,920
So moved.

1297
01:51:40,180 --> 01:51:41,280
Roll call vote, please.

1298
01:51:41,660 --> 01:51:42,120
Approved.

1299
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:43,180
Aye.

1300
01:51:43,580 --> 01:51:43,780
Aye.

1301
01:51:47,310 --> 01:51:47,510
Aye.

1302
01:51:48,230 --> 01:51:48,890
We're five minutes.

1303
01:51:49,670 --> 01:51:50,970
Let's do it in five minutes.

1304
01:51:51,730 --> 01:51:52,990
We're still in the 10th.

1305
01:51:52,990 --> 01:51:53,250
10th.

1306
01:51:53,250 --> 01:51:54,090
Yeah, yeah.

1307
01:51:54,230 --> 01:51:54,730
Yeah.

1308
01:51:55,010 --> 01:51:55,230
Yeah.