[0:01] Caldwell Valley Borough Council is now in session. All rise for the pledge.
[0:06] I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic
[0:12] for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
[0:18] for all.
[0:23] Roll call, Gail.
[0:26] Mr. Carr?
[0:29] Mm-hmm.
[0:29] Mr. White?
[0:30] Here.
[0:31] Dr. Schubring?
[0:33] Here.
[0:35] Mr. Gilbert?
[0:36] Present.
[0:37] Mr. Harris?
[0:38] Here.
[0:39] Mr. Lillard?
[0:40] Here.
[0:41] Matthews?
[0:41] Here.
[0:42] Kowalski?
[0:43] Here.
[0:44] Hennessins?
[0:45] Here.
[0:45] Ms. Harrison?
[0:47] Here.
[0:51] Okay, the first item of business is approval of minutes of August 11th,
[0:56] 2026, our regular meeting. Do I have a motion to approve?
[1:01] Motion to approve.
[1:02] I'll second.
[1:03] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
[1:08] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.
[1:11] Aye.
[1:11] Aye.
[1:12] Aye.
[1:14] Next up, approval of minutes for the special meeting of August 25,
[1:19] 2026.
[1:22] Do we have a motion to approve?
[1:23] Motion to approve.
[1:24] I'll second.
[1:26] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
[1:30] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.
[1:32] Aye.
[1:33] Aye.
[1:33] Aye.
[1:35] Opposed? Motion out of the scale.
[1:40] Okay.
[1:40] We'll now go into the public hearing on the proposed saldo ordinance
[1:47] that will, if adopted by the council,
[1:52] modify regulations pertaining to subdivision and land development in Chapter 22 of
[1:58] the Code of Ordinances and set forth an effective date.
[2:04] So, the first item will be for an overview of the proposed amendment.
[2:09] Dave?
[2:17] Hi. I don't sound prepared, do I? This will be a very brief overview.
[2:22] It's a complete rewrite of Chapter 22, which regulates all of the proposed land
[2:28] development plans that may get submitted to the borough.
[2:35] The planning commission has been working on this collaboratively with one another
[2:40] for,
[2:47] I don't want to say years, but I think it might be multiple years now.
[2:52] But they have worked on it tirelessly and,
[2:58] as I said, the Subdivision Land Development Ordinance is meant
[3:03] to govern the division and development of
[3:09] future parcels in your municipality.
[3:14] A lot of what you have in
[3:17] Chapter 22 is technical in nature.
[3:21] So a lot of it was helped written by engineer for the borough and
[3:28] reviewed, of course, by
[3:31] solicitor as well. If there are specific questions or anything that might come up,
[3:37] glad to do my best to answer them. But
[3:41] Chapter 22 is relatively straightforward.
[3:46] You go to most municipalities in Pennsylvania, they look quite the same.
[3:49] They're governed by the same Pennsylvania Municipalities Planning Code, so
[3:55] they're laid out the same and have a lot of the same details.
[3:59] So any questions, I'll do my best
[4:04] to
[4:08] answer.
[4:09] Dave, in definitions,
[4:12] I believe it says
[4:15] adverse-
[4:17] What page are you on?
[4:18] I'm getting there. Hold on.
[4:19] All right. Sorry.
[4:36] I'm sorry, I thought I had this bookmarked.
[4:38] It's 84, Cody.
[4:40] 84?
[4:40] I think. You said definitions, right?
[4:45] Adverse conditions. That would be page-
[4:47] Five
[4:49] ... five.
[4:49] Definitions.
[4:54] Is that what you're talking about, number three, adverse conditions?
[4:58] Says, "Any condition that limits, restricts, or otherwise inhibits the use,
[5:03] enjoyment, or functionality of a particular facility, track, or feature."
[5:08] Right.
[5:11] Yeah. This is it. Yes.
[5:15] So
[5:17] does this leave open
[5:20] the possibility of someone having a tract of land and a tract of land behind it
[5:25] owned by another person that wants to build a house, and they say that creates an
[5:29] adverse condition because it's taking my enjoyment from sitting on my deck and
[5:33] enjoying the nature in the
[5:39] property behind me?
[5:41] That's a good question. I was mostly aware that term is actually used in saldo.
[5:46] I can't off the cuff recall. My first instinct was to look at Article VIII,
[5:51] Modifications. Some of you may be familiar with variances in the zoning
[5:57] context. There is something similar if a developer comes in front of you with a
[6:00] land development plan, and
[6:05] maybe it's a steep slope provision they can't meet or some other technical
[6:09] requirement that they cannot meet.
[6:10] They'll often seek a modification or a waiver pursuant to those provisions, and
[6:14] that's page 101 for anybody interested.
[6:18] And those provisions are largely taken right out of the MPC.
[6:21] And adverse condition isn't the right term there. It's more hardship.
[6:26] So I was looking to see if adverse condition was used there, and it's not, which is
[6:30] fine because the standard there is that if literal enforcement will exact undue
[6:35] hardship because of peculiar conditions pertaining to the land, provided that such
[6:39] modification will not be contrary to the public interest, the purpose and the end
[6:43] of the ordinance is observed, then you're able to grant a modification.
[6:47] I'm going to search the document.
[6:50] Yeah. If anybody has it up electronically, you can Control + F for it.
[6:58] Yeah, that was just my first thought when I read that.
[6:59] I was like, "Ugh, I don't like how broad it is because when you say any enjoyment
[7:05] to the property, now somebody can say, 'Well, that's an adverse condition by our
[7:08] own definition.'"
[7:10] One place it's coming up is in the definitions.
[7:12] But yeah, and again,
[7:14] finding where it's used is the important component here because the definition has
[7:19] to be used somewhere. So the definition in and of itself isn't necessarily going to
[7:23] grant anything. The text itself has to come up. I'm trying to pull it up as well.
[7:28] It looks like it's only that.
[7:37] It's just in one of one, where it found adverse conditions, which is in definition
[7:42] when I searched the document.
[7:45] Right. Try... So you searched adverse conditions?
[7:48] Adverse condition. Condition, not condition.
[7:51] Maybe take the S off.
[7:52] I took the S off.
[7:53] Search adverse.
[7:55] What is it?
[7:56] Just the word adverse.
[7:56] Oh, that's a good idea. Thank you.
[7:59] There are 10 spots.
[8:03] And in the definition?
[8:07] Page 15, number 6. Actually, page 16.
[8:11] The top of page 16, but it starts on page 15, number 6.
[8:21] Yeah. So that's a whole different concept.
[8:22] That language there is, again, pulled right out of the MPC, and that's talking
[8:27] about when somebody comes in and they get a preliminary plan approval for a land
[8:30] development plan. You can't change your ordinance and then pull the rug out from
[8:35] underneath them. They have a five-year period.
[8:37] Page 51, number 7, has that word adversely in it.
[8:51] Oh.
[8:52] So that's looking at
[8:55] water
[8:58] supply system studies.
[9:01] I doubt-
[9:02] Well, the term was adverse conditions
[9:04] ... the term is adverse.
[9:04] It said adversity. It said adversity.
[9:06] Yeah
[9:10] On page 55, 4121.
[9:18] And that's talking about transportation systems.
[9:24] Adverse impacts on the transportation system. So that's not an adverse condition.
[9:28] Then we have page 71,
[9:32] 501C. That's street construction.
[9:46] Want me to give you the next one?
[9:47] I didn't find that one.
[9:48] Oh, hold on, let me go back up.
[9:51] 501C?
[9:52] 501C, page 71. 501C. It's B, 501C2B.
[9:58] Adverse environmental condition. Okay.
[10:01] So that doesn't- That's still something different. Mm-hmm.
[10:04] Then we have 80, page 88, number four, site location.
[10:10] And that's more developmental from swamps.
[10:17] And then the other one is adverse weather. No, definitely not that.
[10:21] No, it doesn't seem to be-
[10:23] From adverse influence, so that doesn't meet the- Yeah.
[10:28] So-
[10:29] And the last one
[10:29] ... take the definition from it, I mean, that...
[10:35] We're defining what an adverse condition is.
[10:37] That would make the argument that we're getting an avenue to somebody to argue that
[10:43] it is one.
[10:46] Or am I wrong? I certainly subscribe to the principle that you
[10:51] don't need to, and probably shouldn't define terms that don't exist in the
[10:55] document. I don't know that somebody would be able to look at that and say, "I can
[10:59] get out of doing this, that, or the other just because there's a definition." I
[11:04] don't know- But- ... if I'm specifically concerned with somebody getting out of it.
[11:08] I'm concerned with somebody saying, "Hey, I don't want a house built behind mine,
[11:13] so I'm going to quote the definition in our ordinance and say, 'You're creating
[11:17] this that you have defined.'" That wouldn't govern that.
[11:20] In your example, though, this ordinance wouldn't govern that in any way, shape, or
[11:25] form.
[11:27] Because these are rights to the individual landowners, not someone who lives next
[11:33] to a piece of land that would be developed.
[11:39] Yeah. These govern the specific plans.
[11:41] But I hear what you're saying, and
[11:44] for the sake of this as a public hearing, and we've already advertised this, you're
[11:50] going to be keeping track of when you think that a change would exceed the- No,
[11:56] that, I mean- ... the minimum ... the general rule with that concept is if you're
[11:59] making a substantive change as opposed to a procedural or formatting change.
[12:05] So if you took the table of contents and you said, "Well, we just want...
[12:09] Let's flip Article 7 and Article 8," but none of the content's actually changing.
[12:13] I've never believed, and I don't believe that that requires re-advertising.
[12:16] Anything substantive, though, like adding a definition, maybe removing a
[12:19] definition, changing terms.
[12:23] It at least gives... Candidly, I don't think removing a definition that, or a term
[12:29] that doesn't actually appear in the ordinance would really necessitate
[12:33] re-advertising it. But, I could go either way on it because again, if you're
[12:39] not going to use a term, there's no sense in defining it.
[12:42] But I also don't think that there's any potential harm from somebody hanging their
[12:46] hat on a term that isn't used anywhere, right?
[12:50] They would say, "Oh, I have an adverse condition, so I want to do what exactly?"
[12:55] Because the ordinance doesn't say, "Well, if there's an adverse condition, you
[12:58] don't have to do this."
[13:02] So I
[13:04] tend to think you could remove it without the need to re-advertise, but I also
[13:09] think there probably isn't an outright need to remove it because it's sort of
[13:13] inconsequential. Very well. And maybe we could follow up with the folks at county
[13:18] to see if there's a reason it's in there. Other municipalities utilize it.
[13:23] Again, my first instinct when I saw that was that maybe they
[13:26] incorporated that into Article 8 modification stuff.
[13:29] But it's not in there, and it, again, really shouldn't be in there because the
[13:34] standard under the MPC to be able to get the modification or a waiver from having
[13:38] to do something, which I think is what your main concern is, that standard is right
[13:43] out of the MPC and is correct. And so it's undue hardship because of peculiar
[13:48] conditions pertaining to the land.
[13:50] I'll look up the word "conditions" too, just in case.
[13:58] Oh, no, we don't want to look at that. That's 154 hits.
[14:04] Okay with that.
[14:08] Okay. Anybody got another one?
[14:13] I got one. Page 33,
[14:18] I.
[14:22] What does that mean?
[14:30] Talks about
[14:33] boulevard-style entrance which would consist of two separate streets having a width
[14:39] of not less than 10 feet within a right of way of not less than 70
[14:45] feet in width.
[14:50] How many lanes? And how big is the median?
[14:55] What does this really mean?
[14:58] 70 feet with 20 of it being roadway,
[15:03] or maybe more than 20.
[15:04] Is that how big your median can be?
[15:11] I
[15:12] think what it's saying is that each...
[15:14] A boulevard-style entrance, meaning there's a median.
[15:17] There's two connected roads, we'll say, coming out of the single
[15:22] access road inside the development, and the entire right of way is going to be 70
[15:28] feet. And each of those two streets must be a width of at least 10 feet.
[15:35] About the 70 from one side all the way over to the other side.
[15:38] The right of way. For the right of way.
[15:40] You could have like
[15:43] 20 feet of median, 12 feet of each road, and then each
[15:49] cartway, we'll say, and then that would leave you
[15:53] what? 18 on each side for right of way that's not being used.
[15:56] But
[15:58] I think it's basically saying the minimum cartway size, there's got to be two
[16:02] separate, two completely separated roads in and out, and each of those
[16:08] cartways has to be at least 10 feet wide.
[16:11] And
[16:13] the minimum right of way for the entire thing, the entire entrance has to be at
[16:18] least 70.
[16:19] So it would allow for widening the right of way on both sides
[16:25] later.
[16:25] In general, this provision, I see this provision a lot.
[16:28] As Dave pointed out, much of this document is kind of boilerplate, and most
[16:33] municipalities aren't reinventing the wheel when it comes to land development and
[16:36] whatnot. The reason that exists is if you...
[16:39] Most of the time you,
[16:42] to tell it short, oftentimes you would want to have more than one point of ingress
[16:45] and egress into a residential development.
[16:47] The flip side, though, is sometimes somebody's building, let's say like the corner,
[16:52] and they've put a bunch of houses there, and there's a point of access on each of
[16:55] the adjoining main streets, we'll say larger streets.
[16:59] People then might use the neighborhood as like a shortcut to get around an
[17:03] intersection or something. So sometimes you'll be okay with a single access
[17:09] into a development, provided they give you that boulevard entrance, so that if
[17:12] there's a major accident or something, if somebody's pulling out, everybody's not
[17:16] trapped in there, for lack of a better phrase.
[17:19] There's a much wider entrance to the development, so the firetrucks can get in and
[17:23] out, ambulances can get in and out.
[17:25] Versus if you just have a development of 80 homes or something and there's just one
[17:30] street in, there's a major wreck right at the opening, then you kind of got like a
[17:35] health and safety concern that people can't get in and out.
[17:39] But requiring the less than 70 basically gives you plenty of room to work with for
[17:44] firetrucks. That's generally what I've seen in other communities.
[17:49] Okay. Page 63.
[17:52] Number 19.
[17:53] Auxiliary turn lane analysis.
[18:02] I'm interested in essentially the second to last
[18:08] sentence "Storage length requirements for right turn lanes will be
[18:15] 200 feet plus a 100-foot taper if a full-width turn lane is
[18:21] warranted, or 200 feet plus a 100-foot taper if the turn right taper
[18:27] is warranted."
[18:31] What does that mean?
[18:34] It doesn't exactly repeat itself, but it kind of sounds like it's repeating itself.
[18:46] Yeah. Let's see if
[18:49] we have definitions for right turn lane versus full-width turn lane.
[19:01] Because frankly, I don't have a great answer for you off the cuff, and I will
[19:06] do the classic lawyerly cop-out and say I'm not a traffic engineer, so maybe I
[19:09] don't understand what some of that terminology means.
[19:12] Well, don't feel alone. Neither am I.
[19:15] I think it's trying to distinguish between different...
[19:23] Well, I think maybe
[19:25] it's not actually distinguishing anything, I guess, if you look at the distances,
[19:29] because that's kind of the main point I think you were perhaps raising, is that
[19:33] whatever the difference between a right turn lane versus a full-width turn
[19:39] lane is, why distinguish them if the requirement is the same,
[19:45] 200 feet plus a 100-foot taper? I assume the 100-foot taper to mean the
[19:51] distance by which the lane
[19:53] slowly shrinks.
[19:55] But again, if they're the same, then
[19:59] there's not really a difference. There's no distinction.
[20:01] Just saying, I guess, any turn lane of any kind has to store, storage meaning how
[20:07] many vehicles can you store in that length.
[20:10] You've got to have 200 feet of the lane and 100 feet
[20:15] of-
[20:16] Turning into the turn lane
[20:17] ... of the lane, yeah, tapering down to nothing,
[20:22] or opening up coming in. But-
[20:25] Ultimately, the last sentence of that paragraph gives the borough the opportunity
[20:30] to critique whatever method is used to come up with whatever the answers are.
[20:35] These are things that would be done by developers and engineers, of course.
[20:38] So they would have to do some sort of evaluation of it and give what they
[20:44] call warrants or the numbers behind the decisions that they want, and then the
[20:48] borough and borough's engineer would have to approve that they've done it
[20:52] correctly. So I don't know the answer to your question either,
[20:59] but I think that last sentence is kind of a catchall to...
[21:06] I don't know. It may not have been. It definitely, something about it, and I've
[21:11] read a lot of these books, and I'm having trouble understanding the difference
[21:15] myself.
[21:18] I've read this one 100 times, so.
[21:23] Well, and more often than not, or almost, I guess, always,
[21:28] any of the language that we're looking at on page 63 or 62, 61,
[21:34] 60, 59, that is all information that if you're ever dealing with a development that
[21:39] triggers the need for a traffic impact study, an overwhelming majority of your
[21:45] analysis or discretion or decision-making is going to rely on your traffic
[21:50] engineer. So the developer's going to come in with a traffic engineer who puts
[21:53] forward a study that says, "We did a study, and there's going to be this many peak
[21:58] hour trips generated," and your engineer would review that and determine whether
[22:04] they agree, whether there's problems with the study.
[22:07] And
[22:09] looking at that last sentence, I think if there's a methodology problem, in other
[22:14] words, your engineer were to say, "Well, I think the way that you did this study
[22:17] doesn't make any sense because you relied on this or that, or didn't account
[22:20] for..." That's how I see these things playing out so often in municipalities where
[22:25] there's a lot of development that triggers traffic impact studies, is that
[22:28] generally speaking, I don't get involved in it for the most part because it's just
[22:31] the engineers talking to each other. And they have very standardized...
[22:36] The methodology by which they do these studies
[22:40] is very standardized, and people often complain when they see these studies because
[22:44] they say, "Well, I live right there, and I know there's way more traffic than
[22:47] that." And the traffic engineers basically say, "I don't have a lot of
[22:53] discretion." I'm trying to find the name of the
[22:58] ITE is the acronym. There's a
[23:04] state-mandated manual, so to speak, that just dictates how they do these
[23:10] studies. There's not a whole lot of discretion.
[23:23] So if that's the question-
[23:25] This is the highly technical part that I mentioned earlier.
[23:29] So it doesn't make sense to me, but I also am not a traffic engineer.
[23:33] So-
[23:34] But the bottom line is that they're going to put in a tapered
[23:40] line, which would allow for a right-hand turn by having you move into the tapered
[23:46] line.
[23:49] And it just says that twice.
[23:51] Yeah, I think-
[23:51] With a little different organization of the words
[23:53] ... whatever the distinction between a right turn lane or a full-width turn lane
[23:58] is, I think for purposes of that section anyway, those terms might mean something
[24:02] somewhere else, but
[24:04] the distinction doesn't matter because the rule says the length of that turn
[24:10] lane has to be 200 feet. You've got to have a 100-foot...
[24:15] And then the last sentence is basically saying, "We get to determine
[24:20] in the first instance, that provision only becomes
[24:25] relevant if there's a study done and it warrants a turn
[24:31] lane. We, the borough, get to determine whether your study was done appropriately
[24:36] at initial determination." That's what that last sentence-
[24:38] Ultimately, even if we changed it, it means the same thing now that it means later,
[24:43] so what?
[24:45] You get what I'm saying? So I'd say-
[24:50] If we were to amend the sentence as far as-
[24:53] Yeah
[24:53] ... that kind of thought with it, you could say that's-
[24:55] I think we should leave it the way it is, mainly because-
[24:59] I personally wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change it because this stuff has been
[25:04] reviewed by the engineer. You made the reference to the traffic study issues,
[25:10] the ITE, which I didn't know this, Gale looked it up.
[25:13] That's the Institute of Transportation Engineers.
[25:16] So this is a highly detailed part of the ordinance.
[25:21] One that I think maybe one time in my life I've been involved where there was a
[25:26] development with a traffic study. It's not something that's real common, so.
[25:32] Yeah.
[25:32] I would say leave it the way it is.
[25:36] Somebody with more knowledge about it created this sentence and-
[25:39] I'll kind of look at it the same way we looked at the first item that we talked
[25:42] about. I don't think it harms you by leaving it in there because I think it's sort
[25:46] of meaningless.
[25:48] Right.
[25:49] And while I don't think it's really much of a change because it doesn't mean
[25:51] anything, taking it out, I guess, gives somebody the argument if we were to enact
[25:54] tonight that, well, that's a substantive change. You should've re-advertised it.
[25:58] Which again, who is really aggrieved because you took out a clause of a
[26:04] sentence that I think is pretty clearly duplicative, it's not actually
[26:08] saying anything. The main takeaway there is
[26:13] if this traffic impact study identifies that a auxiliary
[26:19] turn lane is warranted for this development, it's going to be 200 feet in length
[26:24] with 100-foot taper, period. Regardless of whether we're calling it a right turn
[26:28] lane or a full-width turn lane.
[26:32] Okay. Page 73, at the top of the page,
[26:38] number five.
[26:41] Exhibit three.
[26:45] Don't know that there are any exhibits for this document.
[26:58] There aren't.
[27:01] So we can remove that, and that would not be substantive.
[27:07] Yeah. I'm okay with that because if it doesn't exist, there's no exhibit three.
[27:12] You're not changing.
[27:15] You're not creating a requirement or adding a requirement.
[27:19] You're, again, deleting words that
[27:22] convey no meaning
[27:25] Does
[27:27] the current SATO, or does the borough have a
[27:33] depressed curb detail
[27:37] exhibit currently?
[27:39] That would be my only question, is if that is a detail that we would want to put in
[27:42] there so that if you had a developer come in, you'd be able to say, "Here's our
[27:47] statute, our detail that shows how you do a depressed curb." But we already don't
[27:52] have that, and there's nothing attached to this document.
[27:56] I don't see any problem.
[27:57] In the rest of the paragraph, it already
[28:01] laid out what the-
[28:02] What the
[28:04] requirement is
[28:05] ... what the requirement is, and then it says, "In general," which doesn't mean
[28:09] it's in general. It would just be a suggestion at that point.
[28:13] So I have already marked it to delete the sentence, the entire last sentence where
[28:17] it starts, "In general."
[28:20] Okay?
[28:22] So you're going the whole sentence?
[28:24] I am. Because we don't have a depressed curb detail.
[28:29] We don't have an exhibit three, but we don't have the detail either, where we would
[28:33] have the exhibit if we did.
[28:39] I think it's an unnecessary level of detail.
[28:47] Okay.
[28:50] Now the
[28:54] 85, 601B,
[28:59] mobile home permit. The following procedures will apply solely for the proposed
[29:05] placement of a mobile home on a single parcel,
[29:11] separately deeded or within a mobile home park.
[29:28] 601B, number two, that's the first sentence.
[29:33] What's the question?
[29:35] Well,
[29:38] we're not allowing
[29:42] trailers on single lots. But here, this document would allow in,
[29:49] and I need to qualify it. It's only in those
[29:55] limited number of areas where there's large acreage and it could be built out,
[30:02] and this would allow single acre lots within those
[30:07] rare items or areas to have a trailer
[30:13] on the lot.
[30:15] That's the way I read it.
[30:16] Yeah, I would like to put Michael on the spot, but I won't, because we had a very
[30:22] similar conversation at the planning commission meeting about this, and it's
[30:25] important to remember that
[30:28] regardless of the question at hand, a single family home
[30:33] is defined by the federal government as including a mobile home, if they do
[30:39] certain things. So where you can place a single family
[30:45] mobile home will be governed by the zoning ordinance, not by Chapter 22.
[30:50] So this isn't talking about where you can site them.
[30:55] But it does open the door for allowing them.
[30:59] Not if our ordinance-
[31:00] Because it's
[31:02] not zoned for it, you can't put it there.
[31:04] Just like you can't put a Walmart up there.
[31:06] But the reality is, and we are going to have this conversation at a later date,
[31:10] because it's one of the topics that you had asked the planning commission to look
[31:14] at as it relates to zoning.
[31:16] Mm-hmm.
[31:17] And
[31:18] it's a really long conversation, to be honest with you.
[31:22] But there's a lot to it in terms of whether or not you can regulate where a mobile
[31:27] home is placed really anywhere in the borough, because the federal government has
[31:32] determined that that meets the definition of a single family dwelling.
[31:37] But we do intend to talk way more about that topic at a later date.
[31:42] In this instance, though, it's just talking about the design requirements when
[31:48] they're allowed to be placed via the zoning ordinance.
[31:52] And in that same section, a little bit lower, 2B, or subsection B at the bottom of
[31:57] the page is also-
[31:58] Right
[31:58] ... kind of connected to what Dave just said, where, so if somebody applies for a
[32:03] permit, the borough will review the application for compliance with this ordinance
[32:07] and other applicable ordinances of the borough.
[32:09] The borough may request the assistance of the borough zoning officer, engineers,
[32:12] solicitor, other municipal officials.
[32:14] So it's not so much that this is opening the door for anything, it's just
[32:19] already presupposing that if somebody makes an application for a permit, they would
[32:25] need to comply with the zoning ordinance, comply with the building code if there's
[32:28] any building code provisions that are applicable, the floodplain ordinance,
[32:31] perhaps, if it's in a floodplain, all kinds of different other ordinances.
[32:35] So this isn't
[32:38] so much as opening a door for something as just kind of recognizing that there's
[32:44] all these other ordinances that work in tandem with the SATO anyway.
[32:47] And it's worth noting, too, the definition of mobile home under the SATO is a
[32:52] transportable single family dwelling intended for permanent occupancy.
[32:55] So that kind of gets back to Dave's point, which I
[32:58] guess intended to be part of a larger discussion at a later date.
[33:01] It is.
[33:01] But-
[33:03] Ultimately, one of the things that we've noticed in our zoning ordinance is we have
[33:06] some regulations for the placement of mobile homes, but they talk about the
[33:12] placements of those homes in mobile home parks, but they don't include other
[33:16] situations outside of a mobile home park.
[33:19] If they are permitted to be sited, it doesn't necessarily draw the connection
[33:24] between the two. This doesn't let that happen, because now this one is saying, when
[33:30] this is
[33:31] the use that's been proposed, these are the rules.
[33:34] So the siting would come, the actual location, wherever it is within the borough,
[33:39] will be under Chapter 27.
[33:41] This document, I believe, says that a mobile home is defined as a home that can be
[33:45] brought in, put down, and then moved later.
[33:49] But I thought we had talked in the past about putting some kind of ordinances in
[33:53] effect that if it was a mobile home that was brought in, it would have to be put
[33:57] down with some kind of permanent-
[33:59] Again, and we are going to talk about that later.
[34:01] You're exactly right, because in order to meet the definition of single family
[34:05] dwelling, they have to remove the mobile portion of the mobile home.
[34:09] Okay.
[34:09] So, I don't want to get into that conversation until the appropriate time that the
[34:14] planning commission's finished with it.
[34:15] But ultimately, right now, it's if you remove the wheels and the tongue, and it's
[34:19] permanently strapped to a permanent foundation, now it's considered to be a single
[34:23] family home, not a mobile home.
[34:26] Right.
[34:26] Right. Correct.
[34:33] All right.
[34:56] So if this were to come
[35:00] to fruition,
[35:03] it would only be
[35:07] in those big areas if they were ever developed. Is that what we're saying?
[35:15] No, I'm saying-
[35:16] Or are we saying that the government requires us to allow on single lots?
[35:21] Again, I promise you we will talk more about that.
[35:24] This is not talking about where they could be located.
[35:26] This is only discussing when they're permitted to be located, what the requirements
[35:31] will be specific to the site.
[35:34] When we decide where and when.
[35:36] Once you have determined via the zoning ordinance where these things would be
[35:41] permitted to be. A full-blown mobile home right now is only allowed in the same
[35:46] place that mobile home parks are. So it's not an issue.
[35:50] The only question becomes whether or not the council will be satisfied with the
[35:56] rules, and I'm not sure they're going to have a choice, but that once the tongue
[36:01] and everything's removed, it's no longer a mobile home, and now it's just a single
[36:05] family home, which I think we'll have to discuss in a lot more detail later.
[36:10] So this is just talking about what the design requirements will be wherever the
[36:16] other code says you're allowed to put them.
[36:19] So
[36:22] if we did it under zoning
[36:26] and address this, would we need to come back to this chapter and make changes?
[36:33] Well-
[36:34] If it didn't work out
[36:35] ... the zoning should be really talking about the site types of things more than
[36:39] these... This should be a higher level of detail in terms of the requirements
[36:45] of what you're doing, where the other one should be basically location and
[36:51] setbacks and things that are more spatially significant.
[36:55] This is more detail-oriented on the types of things that you'll do.
[37:00] So it's not uncommon to have rules in multiple places,
[37:05] unfortunately.
[37:06] And this section, or Article 6 generally, is primarily
[37:12] regulating mobile home parks. The majority of what that article is doing is the
[37:17] mobile home parks. What you're talking about, what you want to make sure that you
[37:21] have the rules in place for
[37:23] regulating individual mobile homes as you would any other single-family home, that
[37:28] is really a zoning. But if you look at, for instance, really starting with
[37:34] Section 4, all of the design and improvement standards, that's putting in place all
[37:40] of the site design and drainage setback and parking areas
[37:46] and size and shape of blocks and
[37:51] construction. That's park street system.
[37:54] That's all really contemplating if there's going to be a mobile home park
[37:58] developed. Again, that's also that runs in tandem with the zoning ordinance because
[38:03] a mobile home park is not a permitted use in every single zoning district.
[38:07] So again, getting back to the term, the sort of phrase of opening the door, all
[38:11] these provisions are doing is essentially saying, if the door is actually already
[38:15] open because of other ordinances, then these are the procedures that are in place,
[38:19] not independently opening the door
[38:23] for itself.
[38:30] Water supply and sewage disposal. So you've got electrical.
[38:35] This is all of the
[38:38] nitty-gritty land development type stuff.
[38:41] If someone's going to develop one of those parks, these are all the big picture
[38:43] rules that they have to put in.
[38:45] That's all I had.
[38:56] Any other discussion?
[39:00] Any public comment?
[39:01] Open to the public.
[39:06] I don't think we have anybody signed up to speak.
[39:09] We've had some confusion with sign-in sheets, but we're not
[39:13] 100% certain, so I would hope that you would ask the public that's here if they
[39:17] wanted to speak.
[39:20] One too many forms.
[39:26] Josh Williams.
[39:26] You can ask questions. I don't know if they'll answer them, but you can ask one.
[39:34] Whatever. It's good. All right. Good evening, everybody.
[39:36] So
[39:37] this, of course, is going to go to the glue factory eventually.
[39:41] Pulled up 600 for definitions for a mobile home.
[39:44] I know we're going to be discussing the mobile home of Josh Williams, 14 Gladys
[39:48] Trail. Sorry, do that part first. Is there a way to add an ordinance to it?
[39:53] And Dave, you said that if you take the tongue off and the axles off, it's no
[39:57] longer a mobile home, but those things can also be reattached and make it a mobile
[40:01] home again. We need to put something there that's going to be a solid slab, that it
[40:05] won't be built on stilts. It won't be an eyesore.
[40:08] If it's put on a solid slab, have skirting around it, even if the axle is already
[40:12] removed, again, it can be reattached, and it can be taken apart into two sections
[40:16] and pulled up a lot. We have a $700,000 house.
[40:19] I don't want a double wide trailer across the street from me to bring down my
[40:22] property value, and I don't think anybody else in our borough.
[40:25] I understand it's a federal regulation.
[40:27] Put rules in place to make it extremely difficult for somebody to put a mobile home
[40:32] on a single parcel, and then we're not violating a federal rule.
[40:38] You just have to abide by all these other rules in order to do it.
[40:41] That's all I got for that.
[40:42] Yeah, there's a lot of
[40:45] different things that you can do with that. You can start talking about roof pitch.
[40:48] You can talk about foundation. You can talk about gutters.
[40:51] There's a lot of things that you can do in terms to a mobile home that does exactly
[40:56] what you're talking about, and those discussions are being had.
[40:58] Thank you.
[40:59] Yeah, I would encourage Josh and really anybody who's interested in that topic to
[41:03] start attending planning commission meetings.
[41:05] We had our first very detailed conversation about all those topics last week.
[41:09] I would caution this, too. The term mobile home is a little bit of a misnomer.
[41:15] There's mobile homes and manufactured homes.
[41:18] A manufactured home is what Josh just said.
[41:20] Basically comes in in two pieces or on a couple of trucks, and they put it down and
[41:24] put it together. But a mobile home is a trailer, or we mostly just refer to it as a
[41:29] trailer. So any ordinances that are written should address that.
[41:34] Well, and as you would hear at the planning commission, we did talk at great length
[41:38] again about these topics, and we are somewhat handcuffed on what we can do based
[41:44] upon federal discrimination cases and things of that nature.
[41:48] But we are looking at all the different things that we might be able to do, and
[41:52] before it ever comes to any proposed changes would come to this board, it's going
[41:57] to go through a detailed review by our attorney to be sure that we could even make
[42:04] proposals to make those changes.
[42:07] I encourage everybody to show up for the planning commission
[42:10] meeting.
[42:16] Eric?
[42:22] State your full name and address.
[42:29] Of course. Hi, my name's Eric Johnson.
[42:30] I live at Four Raven Trail, and I want to start by just asking a quick question
[42:35] since I just found out about this
[42:39] land development
[42:41] about a half an hour ago. What was the purpose behind making these changes?
[42:46] Are we just trying to update our existing ordinances?
[42:49] Is there something going on that it might necessitate a change?
[42:54] What was the reason behind developing these changes?
[42:58] Well,
[43:00] it was a very old 70-page document.
[43:04] So it's mostly we're just updating?
[43:07] And updated, and actually, we do have large parcels
[43:13] that at any time
[43:16] they could come in and ask our approval for development.
[43:21] Has anybody come in and asked for development?
[43:24] In the past they have, yes.
[43:26] Has anybody recently? I know we have some pretty big pieces of land that were just
[43:29] sold next to Perna that was an acre or something like that.
[43:34] I don't think that sold yet.
[43:36] Hmm?
[43:36] Is that sold yet?
[43:37] I could be wrong.
[43:38] I thought I heard somebody say there was two, one was sold, one wasn't.
[43:41] I don't know.
[43:43] Yeah. To get back to what he said, the original subdivision ordinance was adopted
[43:47] in 1979 and hadn't been changed, so that the original reason to look at
[43:53] it was just to update it and be sure because in Adams County in general, every
[43:58] municipality is getting peppered with development.
[44:01] We wanted to make sure we had newer regulations in place.
[44:04] So you actually asked two questions, so I'd like to separate the two because doing
[44:09] what we're doing has nothing to do with whether or not we think there's going to be
[44:12] a development. It's about being proactive and making sure that we have good rules
[44:15] in place if that does happen. The second part of the question was have we heard
[44:19] anything. I've had two conversations about the one parcel with two different
[44:24] developers that's up the street for sale right now.
[44:26] I mean, everybody sees the for sale signs, so I'm sure people have wondered about
[44:29] it. I have no idea. We haven't received anything formally, just simple
[44:33] conversations about that.
[44:36] We have one other landowner who has been in twice over the years seeking
[44:43] different kinds of developments in there.
[44:45] And I've said it, I'll say it here. I said it one other time not long ago in this
[44:50] room. It's going to happen. I'm sorry. We have a wonderful community.
[44:56] There's a lot of reason why people would want to build on the parcels that are
[44:59] here, and we just have to be prepared for them the best that we can whenever they
[45:04] do show up.
[45:05] And this basically sets it up to where we do it under our term.
[45:10] Yeah.
[45:10] As well as we can, of course.
[45:12] That's why I was just asking the general reason behind just being proactive,
[45:15] updating, or if there was something specific that we were either trying to
[45:18] encourage or discourage.
[45:20] But the Aluma property that is next to Skeeter, they have a 15-year
[45:26] drop-dead date on their sewer hookup.
[45:28] So one would think in the next 15 years that they're going to try to
[45:33] Execute on them. Yeah.
[45:35] They're already logging over there, which makes me think that they're planning on
[45:39] selling the land. Because in Pennsylvania, the logs aren't
[45:45] part of the property anymore, right?
[45:48] Agricultural economy.
[45:49] Logging that area.
[45:53] Well, come on up, sign the sheet, and you can talk.
[45:56] You especially. You can talk anytime you want.
[46:00] Don't say that. Then you should tell me to shut up.
[46:02] No, I want you to keep talking.
[46:06] Thank you again for everything you did.
[46:08] It was collaborative.
[46:11] Do I need to time you?
[46:12] You can if you want.
[46:17] Tiffany Price, 59 Mile Trail. I just had a couple questions.
[46:22] Now, I perused this. I did not sit down and read it completely.
[46:26] Are they still going to have the mandatory at least a half an acre lot to build on,
[46:31] or... I seen mention in here of condominiums, homeowners associations, things
[46:37] of that. And Carroll Valley's pretty strict as it is, people coming in here saying
[46:40] that, "We're a homeowners association," which like you said, it was developed that
[46:45] way back in the '70s when everything was put into place.
[46:49] But I was just curious about that. And then the other thing was the joint use of
[46:53] residential driveways. So I have a lot that someone actually put part of their
[46:58] driveway onto my lot. And so the thought process was if I
[47:04] sold it, we could each use that lot to go in.
[47:09] So I was curious about that, because that's under the residential, no use of
[47:12] resident joint on page, go back over 40, I think
[47:18] it's like-
[47:19] Anything that's existing would be grandfathered, correct?
[47:22] But it's only half of that driveway is on my lot.
[47:26] I'm going to answer both questions.
[47:27] The first question was about the size of the lots.
[47:30] That's governed through Chapter 27, not through this.
[47:33] So the size of lots is set in zoning, and so you'd have to refer to that code for
[47:39] that. The question about the driveways, and I knew you were going to ask that
[47:43] because you've asked me one other time.
[47:45] And I'll tell you again, I don't know if I even gave you a good answer last time,
[47:49] but today I've got a good answer. And that is, I don't know if it would be
[47:52] grandfathered or wouldn't be grandfathered, but these requirements in the
[47:55] Subdivision Land Development Ordinance are flexible enough that you could talk to
[48:01] Tiffany at the time, and you could grant Tiffany the ability to do it, just
[48:04] individually. You could waive that requirement for her.
[48:07] It happens in developments all the time.
[48:09] So if these rules aren't quite as concrete as a zoning ordinance requirement,
[48:15] and they allow the council to make changes to it, not a zoning hearing board, for
[48:21] example. So.
[48:22] Correct me if I'm wrong, but eight or nine years ago, didn't we do that with
[48:29] a driveway? About eight or nine years ago, didn't we do that with a driveway, where
[48:33] we allowed somebody to build their driveway with the permission of the landowner
[48:39] in, I think it was a few years ago.
[48:40] Yeah, I know-
[48:41] That was for access to property
[48:43] ... it was actually just outside of Carroll Valley. Yeah.
[48:47] We thought we were looking out for that property.
[48:51] So I understand what you're saying and, the rule doesn't
[48:57] encourage the use of those kinds of driveways, but that doesn't mean that
[49:02] individual cases, you couldn't hear from them and decide whether or not
[49:06] individually that situation warranted allowing it.
[49:11] So with the half acre lot, does that mean condominiums would potentially be
[49:14] excluded from being built in Carroll Valley, and townhomes, or is that-
[49:19] Yeah, 27.
[49:22] Sorry. It is. The types of homes on lots, that's all governed by your zoning
[49:28] board.
[49:28] All right, and then the homeowners association clause is in here that Carroll
[49:33] Valley's third party. Does that mean that they have all of their own rules?
[49:37] These would set rules up if a developer proposed a development that was going to
[49:42] have a homeowners association as part of their boundaries.
[49:48] Correct me if I'm wrong, the homeowners association's rules can't supersede our
[49:52] rules. Am I correct there?
[49:53] No, there are two sets of rules, correct.
[49:57] Is that what you were asking, if they can supersede and then-
[50:00] No.
[50:02] They can't-
[50:02] Well, they can't-
[50:03] They can't have a development over here with a homeowners association and then try
[50:07] to affect places outside of their boundary.
[50:10] Correct.
[50:10] But basically, the rules that are set for what you're saying, the rules are set for
[50:14] Carroll Valley, they have to follow those, but then they can have different rules
[50:18] that don't supersede our rules. Am I correct?
[50:23] If I'm splitting the hair with the word supersede, they can't avoid your rules.
[50:27] That's what I meant.
[50:28] They can have rules that go above and beyond yours, and
[50:33] then that's not a borough issue. You can have that outside of the context of an
[50:39] HOA. You could have a subdivision plan that gets recorded, and as a part of all of
[50:44] those deeds created by that subdivision, there could be restrictive covenants that
[50:49] say you can't have chickens or you can't whatever.
[50:52] And the individual private property owners have rights and responsibility,
[50:58] nothing to do with the borough.
[51:01] So they're just two different things.
[51:05] Use of an HOA doesn't have any impact on the enforceability or validity of rules
[51:10] that you haven't put in place, but they may put on themselves rules and
[51:13] regulations. Is that what you're asking?
[51:17] I think how it would-
[51:19] Yeah. So they have to follow our rules first.
[51:26] The HOA can't make rules that say, "Oh, you don't have to follow this or that from
[51:30] the Carroll Valley Code of Ordinances." Property that was being developed in those
[51:36] instances. So unless you bought property there and were notified of what those
[51:40] rules were as a buying person,
[51:44] it would only be an issue for the properties being developed.
[51:49] Yeah.
[51:55] Any other discussion on this issue?
[52:01] Do I have a motion to adjourn this public hearing?
[52:05] Motion to adjourn.
[52:08] Second.
[52:08] Motion and a second to adjourn this public hearing.
[52:12] Any other discussion on that? None? All in favor say aye.
[52:18] Aye.
[52:18] Aye.
[52:19] Opposed?
[52:21] Okay.
[52:23] We're now open to the public again
[52:29] on topics that we'll be discussing tonight.
[52:34] I don't see any volunteers for that one.
[52:38] Okay, ordinance number two.
[52:42] Miss B.
[52:42] Hmm?
[52:43] Miss B.
[52:48] Oh, yes. I did miss our librarian.
[52:54] Good evening, everyone. I know most of you already, but my name's Sherry DiMartino,
[52:59] and I'm the branch manager of the Carroll Valley Library.
[53:02] Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you tonight on behalf of the Adams County
[53:06] Library System.
[53:08] For more than 80 years, the Adams County Library System has been a vital part of
[53:12] our community. While the way we access and use information has evolved dramatically
[53:16] over those eight decades, our work has remained constant: to provide Adams County
[53:21] residents with access to materials and information that support formal and lifelong
[53:25] learning, enrichment, and enjoyment.
[53:28] Today, we are proud to serve our communities through convenient locations in
[53:32] Biglerville, Carroll Valley, East Berlin, Gettysburg, Littlestown, and New Oxford.
[53:37] I want to especially highlight that a majority of residents in this borough visit
[53:41] our library right here in Carroll Valley, making our presence here not just a
[53:44] convenience, but a true community cornerstone.
[53:48] Our libraries deliver real measurable value to your taxpayers.
[53:52] In 2025 alone, residents of Carroll Valley saved an estimated
[53:56] $236,306 simply by borrowing physical books rather than
[54:02] purchasing them from a bookstore.
[54:04] That figure is based on the average book price reported by School Library Journal
[54:09] and represents real money staying in the pockets of your constituents.
[54:13] Beyond the savings, we offer a wide range of programs, averaging more than one
[54:17] event per day across all our locations.
[54:20] Summer is especially critical with our Summer Quest program permitting reading and
[54:24] helping prevent the summer slide that sets so many students back when school is
[54:28] out.
[54:29] But I would also like to address the challenges we face.
[54:33] Pennsylvania continues to struggle with significant literacy issues, with more than
[54:38] 44% of third graders scoring basic or below basic on state assessments.
[54:43] Research consistently shows that early reading proficiency is strongly linked to
[54:48] long-term social and health outcomes.
[54:50] And here in Adams County, about one in five adults lack basic literacy, math, and
[54:54] problem-solving skills.
[54:57] Public libraries like ours are on the front lines of addressing these needs through
[55:01] early literacy programs, summer learning, and broad access to books and educational
[55:05] support for families. Yet the numbers tell a troubling story.
[55:10] Pennsylvania spends roughly $58,000 annually to house a single inmate but
[55:16] invests only about $5.77 per resident in public libraries.
[55:21] State funding has remained largely stagnant for decades, even as our costs continue
[55:25] to rise.
[55:27] This brings me to why I'm here tonight.
[55:31] The Adams County Library System receives vital support from 22 local
[55:34] municipalities. This funding, modest as it may seem, helps us
[55:40] maintain the high quality of services we offer to the people of Adams County.
[55:45] As a nonprofit organization, we rely heavily on fundraising to cover a significant
[55:50] portion of our operating budget. But municipal support remains essential, and we
[55:54] are deeply grateful for the partnership we share with you.
[55:58] On behalf of our board, our dedicated staff, and the thousands of residents who
[56:02] walk through our doors each year, especially those in Carroll Valley, who count on
[56:06] us every single day, I want to thank you for your continued support.
[56:11] Your investment enables us to provide books, movies, community programs, and so
[56:14] much more to your constituents. It keeps our doors open and our services accessible
[56:19] to everyone.
[56:21] We welcome the opportunity to continue this partnership and hope we can count on
[56:25] your continued support again next year. Thank you for your time.
[56:29] Thank you. And thank you for all you do.
[56:35] Okay,
[56:37] now Ordinance Number 2 2026, Chapter 22, Soldo
[56:43] Amendment for approval. Do we have a motion to approve?
[56:48] Motion to approve.
[56:52] Seconded.
[56:53] We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
[57:01] No.
[57:01] Hearing none,
[57:07] all in favor say aye.
[57:08] Aye.
[57:09] Aye.
[57:11] Opposed?
[57:14] You can move forward, Gail.
[57:20] The mayor's report. Mr. Mayor?
[57:22] Mayor, you're
[57:28] up.
[57:29] Yes.
[57:30] I know, but I want you to...
[57:35] Oh.
[57:38] Yes.
[57:40] I would like to take a moment of silence for September the 11th,
[57:47] as it recently passed. And to do that, you could read it across, but I'm going to
[57:54] say the numbers and the type of people that were lost.
[58:00] 2,735 civilians in the World Trade Center,
[58:06] 87 aboard American Airlines flight that hit the North Tower,
[58:12] 60 aboard the United flight that hit the South Tower,
[58:18] 343 people, New York City
[58:23] firefighters and rescue workers, 23 New York City law enforcement
[58:29] officers, 47 Port Authority workers, 37
[58:35] Port Authority police officers, 36 aboard United Flight 93 that
[58:41] crashed in Pennsylvania,
[58:44] 64 aboard American Airlines flight that crashed into the
[58:49] Pentagon, 170, 125
[58:55] civilians and military in the Pentagon.
[59:05] Thank you. Next slide, please.
[59:09] Police report, around town coming events and in requiem.
[59:14] Next slide, please. Carroll Valley Police Department.
[59:20] Our chief is on a cruise. He is not here, but he did
[59:26] want me to bring it up to the council,
[59:30] medicine Take Back program, and there'll be a slide later on that he'll be
[59:36] addressing it. And then I think it's pronounced WEENA, right?
[59:40] WEENA Mobile is coming to Pippinfest.
[59:46] I think it's on Sunday, and good time to take a picture.
[59:53] He also wanted to bring to everybody's attention, we know this weekend is going to
[59:58] have a lot of people driving through Fairfield, so be
[1:00:04] careful. Next slide, please. Around town. Next slide, please.
[1:00:10] September the 11th, we had a blood drive.
[1:00:13] The results were 28 donors,
[1:00:18] 26 units were collected, which saved 78 local
[1:00:24] lives. Next blood drive is going to be November 30th, and I'll bring it
[1:00:30] up to your attention. Next slide, please.
[1:00:34] This has been such a hit and maybe
[1:00:40] Gail will say a few words about it.
[1:00:43] I crossed out 9/11 because we passed 9/11. Next slide, please.
[1:00:50] I'd like to just say Parks and Rec put on an awesome blood drive.
[1:01:02] Volunteers there have enjoying what they've done.
[1:01:09] Next slide, please. Gail, would you want to mention what was done?
[1:01:14] We did the, as you said, the Parks and Rec committee, the chairman specifically,
[1:01:21] wanted us to reach out to the local fire departments and ambulance crews, which we
[1:01:26] did, and we were blessed with Fairfield, Fountaindale, and Arms.
[1:01:31] All three brought units and their staff with them.
[1:01:38] The one
[1:01:40] food truck,
[1:01:43] Dirty Pop Sodas, is actually owned and run by a firefighter,
[1:01:49] and they had a special drink that evening, and a local donor, anonymous,
[1:01:56] offered free
[1:01:59] drink from their place for any active member of a
[1:02:05] fire department or first responder, police, whatever,
[1:02:11] and they were visited by several. So I understand that that went over very well.
[1:02:17] So we would like to thank the departments for coming down.
[1:02:21] We also had a police cruiser there and a police officer.
[1:02:24] So Chief made sure that our police department was represented as well,
[1:02:29] and we want to say thank you. Food Truck Fridays have been an incredible success,
[1:02:34] and it was nice to be able to use that event to say thank you.
[1:02:39] Next slide, please.
[1:02:43] September the 10th, which is also passed, has been
[1:02:49] designated as suicide prevention.
[1:02:53] You could read the script that I placed below.
[1:02:57] If you know of someone
[1:03:02] that is questioning that they have a problem and they don't know how
[1:03:07] to navigate solving that problem,
[1:03:13] please
[1:03:16] call. You call, not the person who's talking about something.
[1:03:21] You call and talk to the people, and they'll guide you on what to
[1:03:27] do. Adams County, we've lost 24 lives.
[1:03:36] Next slide, please.
[1:03:38] Upcoming events. Next slide, please. We all know it, right?
[1:03:44] Pippinfest
[1:03:47] Both days. I think Saturday they do the community
[1:03:53] day. I have something that I could sell
[1:03:58] on Sunday is actually the one celebrating.
[1:04:03] Next slide, please. Gail, you want to figure out what I was
[1:04:09] trying to figure out with that thing in the middle of the thing?
[1:04:15] The QR code.
[1:04:15] Oh, once again, yes. Once again, the Recreation
[1:04:20] Committee is sponsoring the yard sale map. This has been quite successful for us.
[1:04:26] We will put anyone in the area, doesn't have to be just Carroll Valley Borough, but
[1:04:32] in the area for $10. And, yes, if you scan the
[1:04:39] code there in the center that's green, has our little symbol in it, it will take
[1:04:43] you directly to the
[1:04:47] bit.ly/pivonfest-
[1:04:51] Pivon sale.
[1:04:53] Pivon sale. Sorry, I can't see through Josh's head. Sorry about that.
[1:04:58] But it'll take you directly there. Sign up. You can pay online.
[1:05:03] Give us a description of where you are, what you're selling.
[1:05:07] As I said, it's been very well received, so hopefully we get a lot more
[1:05:11] participants.
[1:05:13] You mean my wife will sell my... Never mind. That's a personal problem.
[1:05:19] Next slide, please.
[1:05:20] Yeah, we're signing up without you now.
[1:05:22] Yeah.
[1:05:22] She's going to send you away and sell your stuff on the yard.
[1:05:25] Yeah. Thank you very much. Out of bounds for October.
[1:05:28] Out of bounds outside Carroll Valley. So you can take a look at two things.
[1:05:34] And it might be, I know there's some people that are interested in a second one and
[1:05:39] cycling on weekends, and I put down the ad.
[1:05:44] You see it says, "Bike tours by Linda at Hawaii," whatever, "hoo."
[1:05:52] So the idea of being there... What are you laughing about?
[1:05:57] I don't know what you just said, but it sounded like a why and a who.
[1:06:02] I said on Hawaii.
[1:06:03] It's Yahoo! Yahoo.
[1:06:05] Oh, Yahoo. That's how you say it. Okay.
[1:06:08] Not yoo-hoo.
[1:06:09] So anyway, next slide, please.
[1:06:13] Senate bill. Law takes effect October the 19th,
[1:06:18] right?
[1:06:19] Hope it works.
[1:06:19] This is about telemarketing. So I would make a
[1:06:25] telephone call if you get a telemarketer doing something.
[1:06:33] Next slide, please.
[1:06:36] This is coming from the attorney general, and it has to do with a
[1:06:42] medical
[1:06:44] app.
[1:06:46] And the medical app is MyChart. I don't know in our particular area, but some
[1:06:52] people may use that as...
[1:06:55] All right. Mine is WellSpan. But if you use MyChart,
[1:07:01] if you get a message,
[1:07:05] delete it. Don't unsubscribe. If you do unsubscribe, guess what?
[1:07:10] You had to do a click. That means they're going to get you.
[1:07:16] Right? So be careful about this.
[1:07:18] I got a brief on that today, Ron. And in fact, the site looks
[1:07:24] exactly like the MyChart site there.
[1:07:26] It's very evolved as far as how they're designing it, so people think that it's
[1:07:30] actually their doctor's office sending them an email, and then they go and click on
[1:07:33] it, and yeah, they're getting a lot of people.
[1:07:36] So it's the second time I've heard it today.
[1:07:39] Thank you for saying that.
[1:07:44] Hopefully everybody had time to read. Next slide, please.
[1:07:50] October the 24th, COVID device recycling.
[1:07:55] So computers, you can see the list. The list is published.
[1:08:02] Recycling, where you can see where.
[1:08:07] Next slide.
[1:08:08] Sorry, I won't do it.
[1:08:09] No, that's okay. Here's the medicine take back, 24th also
[1:08:15] from 10:00 to
[1:08:16] 2:00. Next slide,
[1:08:21] please.
[1:08:24] I'm turning it over to Gail once again because of recreation.
[1:08:30] This is just an early
[1:08:33] warning for you, or save the date for the Trunk or Treat.
[1:08:39] It's become a very popular event for us.
[1:08:43] If you would like to be a trunk, please sign up.
[1:08:46] We are also having food trucks that day because it is a Saturday, so the event is
[1:08:51] going to go from 3:00 till 8:00. The trunk-or-treating itself will be from 5:00 to
[1:08:56] 7:00.
[1:08:57] As I said, please give us a call. We'll sign you up for the Trunk or Treat.
[1:09:01] Otherwise, bring your kids down to trick-or-treat here and have some dinner.
[1:09:09] Next slide, please. In rec we... Next slide, please.
[1:09:17] Next slide, please.
[1:09:26] Next slide, please.
[1:09:28] Thank you for listening.
[1:09:30] Before we move on,
[1:09:32] I'd like to say something about the police department.
[1:09:35] My charity had a charity motorcycle ride go through Carroll Valley and
[1:09:40] Fairfield a few weeks back for a local resident.
[1:09:43] And one of the officers helped us with some traffic control at the corner of Jacks
[1:09:49] Mountain and 116. I just wanted to thank the police department for doing that for
[1:09:52] us.
[1:09:57] The officer's name is Reed.
[1:10:02] Thank you.
[1:10:07] Okay. We received the Arms Fairfield Fire Department and
[1:10:13] Fountain Dale Fire Department reports.
[1:10:16] Any comments with regard to those reports?
[1:10:25] Thank you to all three of those organizations for providing their reports for last
[1:10:30] month.
[1:10:32] Committee reports. Park and Recreation Committee.
[1:10:40] We got their report. Any
[1:10:43] comments with regard to the-
[1:10:44] I think it's amazing as much as they have done.
[1:10:48] If you look at that report, it's phenomenal-
[1:10:51] Yeah
[1:10:52] ... they're planning on doing. It's just a ton of stuff that they're doing, and I
[1:10:57] think it's great.
[1:10:58] I agree.
[1:10:59] Agreed.
[1:11:00] Paul. Richard, I did miss, I wanted to mention that
[1:11:06] Mountain Dale did say that they took on two more junior members, so good for them,
[1:11:10] and that's awesome that they're getting the youth involved in the volunteer program
[1:11:13] at the fire department.
[1:11:14] Good.
[1:11:17] And Michael, you want to say anything about the Planning Commission report?
[1:11:23] particularly.
[1:11:24] Okay. Everybody's at it. They breathe, right?
[1:11:28] Three new topics, yeah. Three new topics we're working on.
[1:11:31] So it's all there in the memo.
[1:11:34] Okay. Well, thank you to Jenny Jorell and Michael White for their reports.
[1:11:41] Administrative business. Treasurer's report for August 2026.
[1:11:48] Dave?
[1:11:50] Yeah. You got it.
[1:11:53] Anything to say about that?
[1:11:55] Nope.
[1:11:55] Nope? Okay.
[1:11:57] I would normally say if they are provided for you, if you have any questions, I'll
[1:12:00] ask Gail to answer them for you.
[1:12:03] Okay.
[1:12:03] So, do we have a motion to approve?
[1:12:06] Motion to approve.
[1:12:08] Seconded.
[1:12:09] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion by council members?
[1:12:15] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.
[1:12:18] Aye.
[1:12:19] Aye.
[1:12:20] Aye.
[1:12:20] Opposed?
[1:12:22] It's unanimous, Gail.
[1:12:24] Thank you.
[1:12:26] 2027 MMO transmittal.
[1:12:32] Yeah. We specifically, Gail and I, are required by law to notify you,
[1:12:38] at this time of the year, of the form that was filled out, which is outlining what
[1:12:44] our minimum municipal obligation will be in the plan year 2027 for both your
[1:12:50] uniforms and non-uniformed pension plans. And so we consider that done.
[1:12:55] But I do always like to remind everybody, since we will be getting into the budget
[1:12:59] soon, that there's a couple of line items in the budget that I take literally right
[1:13:03] from this piece of paper
[1:13:11] The LSA Grant Bathroom RFP.
[1:13:18] Yeah, if you'll recall, we had an LSA grant approved, and we've been doing little
[1:13:23] projects in the park. It was overall improvements to Carroll Commons.
[1:13:27] This is another part of that. Quite frankly, I think it's the last part of that
[1:13:32] grant, to build a small restroom on the other side of the...
[1:13:38] Can I say crick? Am I allowed to say crick, or is that- You can ...
[1:13:42] on the other side of the crick, because apparently it's too hard to walk up here to
[1:13:46] go to the bathroom.
[1:13:48] I kid a little. Anyway, so what we've given you is an
[1:13:54] invitation to bid packet, and in order to move that project
[1:14:00] forward, we're
[1:14:04] proposing a seven-foot-by-seven-foot ADA-compliant restroom facility in the park.
[1:14:08] So this would be that invitation to try to find bidders.
[1:14:13] And as I told you the last time we talked about bidding in general, utilizing
[1:14:17] online bid,
[1:14:20] PennBid in particular, would be one of our options also.
[1:14:23] Because this is a small project, our hopes are that we'll actually get a good
[1:14:27] turnout of bidders locally, so we didn't want to do it solely on PennBid.
[1:14:31] So it would be a mix of both taking electronic bids and then also the paper bid
[1:14:36] process that we have not really done.
[1:14:39] It would be great if we could get a local resident to bid for that and
[1:14:44] get it.
[1:14:46] Yeah, I think it would be great if that happened, too, as long as they're the
[1:14:49] lowest bidder, because that's all that-
[1:14:50] I get that
[1:14:51] ...
[1:14:53] sorry. Price matters in our world.
[1:14:56] Does.
[1:15:01] Move to approve.
[1:15:04] So do we have a motion to approve?
[1:15:06] Motion to approve.
[1:15:07] Second.
[1:15:10] Any discussion?
[1:15:14] And you said it's going to be handicapped accessible?
[1:15:16] Yes, sir.
[1:15:20] Any other discussion?
[1:15:24] Hearing none, all in favor say aye.
[1:15:26] Aye.
[1:15:27] Opposed?
[1:15:30] It's unanimous, Gail.
[1:15:31] Okay.
[1:15:35] Unfinished business, grant funding updates.
[1:15:44] I think it's amazing what GMS has done for us over the years, and I'd love for you
[1:15:49] to be able to let her know that. She is just out of this world.
[1:15:54] I don't think the citizens understand,
[1:15:57] I would even venture to say the millions-
[1:16:00] Yeah, I'll let Harlan know
[1:16:01] ... Yeah, the millions of dollars.
[1:16:03] It's a he now. That's fine.
[1:16:05] It's a he. Sorry, yeah.
[1:16:06] It's okay. But they do a great job, and I actually have hot-off-the-press news that
[1:16:10] just came out this afternoon, that for those of you familiar with the sewer
[1:16:15] project that we've been kind of delaying out on Country Club Trail, we were awarded
[1:16:21] just this afternoon half a million dollars toward that project as well, with
[1:16:27] GMS's help. So they keep finding us money and making it
[1:16:32] successful. They are worth every single penny we pay them, and I'm just
[1:16:38] tickled that we'll be able to move that project forward, and that's going to make
[1:16:41] quite a difference to the residents out there when we complete that project.
[1:16:44] So-
[1:16:45] Thank you for pushing that, Dave.
[1:16:46] Did we get all that we were asking for?
[1:16:49] No, but we had asked for, I think, 750,000. We were awarded 800?
[1:16:55] 800. She said we asked for 800,000. We were awarded half a million.
[1:16:59] But according to the press release,
[1:17:01] there's going to be a press release that comes from our office, too,
[1:17:08] and I'm going from my memory right now, but there were requests in the trillions,
[1:17:12] and they were only able to fund 300 and some million, and we were one of them.
[1:17:17] So, it wasn't just that they funded everybody.
[1:17:20] We had a competitive application, and with GMS's help and support of
[1:17:27] our elected officials, our local leaders, we were able to do that.
[1:17:30] So I know they didn't know that whenever they wrote this update for you last week,
[1:17:35] so I wanted to let everybody know the good news on that end as well.
[1:17:40] It helps.
[1:17:45] Any update on the Penn Trails
[1:17:51] beyond what is in this report,
[1:17:55] the proposals on September 10?
[1:18:00] We opened the bids, and we're in the process of evaluating the bids with Penn
[1:18:04] Trails. We just didn't feel comfortable.
[1:18:07] There were a number of bids, but the prices were all over the place.
[1:18:13] So we're going to do a deep dive into the proposals to try to get a feel for why
[1:18:17] they were so different and make sure that we've provided a good recommendation to
[1:18:22] council, and the committee wanted to see it before you guys did.
[1:18:25] So the intention is the award for that will be on your next agenda in October.
[1:18:37] Okay. Next up is lot sales.
[1:18:44] Okay. So
[1:18:47] these together, we did get some of the appraisals back.
[1:18:54] I'm going to go down the list, and I'm going
[1:18:58] to go in my order. So bear with me here, because not all of them are new to this
[1:19:03] process that are on the list.
[1:19:07] 15 Mason Dixon, as a reminder, that's number one on the list.
[1:19:10] That is one that we had previously awarded, and the person decided that they didn't
[1:19:16] want it any longer. So that is back on the list again.
[1:19:21] Number two is because I had a resident reach out to me, and they now live next to
[1:19:27] Six Burr Trail, and they want to buy it. You've put that out to bid several times.
[1:19:31] So either that goes back out to auction, or you authorize Dave, I'm speaking about
[1:19:37] myself in the third person, to negotiate and bring a best offer from that
[1:19:41] individual property owner. Really up to you guys how you want to process that one.
[1:19:47] Remember what that was appraised for?
[1:19:49] I
[1:19:51] don't, but it
[1:19:53] was high because it did pass
[1:19:59] PERC,
[1:20:01] but the site has a lot of issues.
[1:20:04] Challenges. I'm familiar with that lot.
[1:20:06] Yeah, and there are extenuating circumstances even
[1:20:11] with the PERC result itself that I'm not real comfortable with.
[1:20:15] So I'm not sure that the appraiser had enough information to give us a good
[1:20:21] appraisal on it, and I think that's pretty indicative that it probably wasn't
[1:20:25] correct since there was no interest in buying it.
[1:20:28] So-
[1:20:29] Like this from the road.
[1:20:30] Yeah. The reality is that the best thing that could happen to this lot is it be
[1:20:35] added to the neighboring property,
[1:20:38] one side or the other. I didn't want to pick one, so I put it on this list.
[1:20:43] If you want me to negotiate with the one resident who asked, I can.
[1:20:46] I'll do it however council directs me to do it, but I wanted to specify and get
[1:20:51] that in front of you right now.
[1:20:58] My only concern is that we've told people before
[1:21:03] that they have to go through the process.
[1:21:06] Well, right, and this lot has gone through the process now.
[1:21:10] All I'm saying is if we wanted to, we could negotiate.
[1:21:13] I happen to feel
[1:21:16] I don't want to pick favorites. The other person on the other side might want it,
[1:21:21] too. The other person on the back might want it, too. We don't really know.
[1:21:25] We won't know.
[1:21:26] Well, if it's-
[1:21:27] There's nobody on the other side. I know that.
[1:21:29] Well, but there's still a parcel.
[1:21:31] But there is somebody that backs up to it.
[1:21:33] And the person on the other side of that parcel was actually who had asked us to
[1:21:38] put it up for sale initially. Now, I think that has changed ownership and stuff.
[1:21:44] So the reality is it may only be still the one person interested.
[1:21:48] But
[1:21:50] if you put it out to bid, my recommendation is making the minimum bid nothing and
[1:21:54] seeing what you get in terms of the highest bid.
[1:21:59] I think that you could do it either way.
[1:22:00] I think that Zach thinks that you can do it either way.
[1:22:04] I just spoke for him and hoped he didn't correct me.
[1:22:07] And
[1:22:09] so really, whatever you want to do.
[1:22:10] We can take it off this list, and I can talk to him, or we'll leave it on the list
[1:22:13] and go through the auction. Whatever council wants to do.
[1:22:16] Well, if we went
[1:22:20] If we went through the auction, we could tell the owners of the abutting
[1:22:25] properties that it's going to go up.
[1:22:29] And that's part of a process. We'll do that for everyone on the list.
[1:22:33] So everybody gets personal notification if you have an adjoining property.
[1:22:38] So then that should work to-
[1:22:41] It had originally appraised at 22,000. Thank you, Gail.
[1:22:50] Rather than just inviting the three around it, wouldn't it be better to just
[1:22:56] tell them that it's going to go up and then let anybody bid?
[1:23:00] Yeah, that's probably the fair way. Yeah.
[1:23:06] If you weren't asking me, I hope, because I'm not going to answer that.
[1:23:08] But that's okay. You guys were elected into office to make decisions like that.
[1:23:13] I don't know what's fair and what isn't.
[1:23:14] Two things. It's been for sale once or twice? Twice.
[1:23:17] And no-
[1:23:19] Might even have been three times. It was several times.
[1:23:22] It was three times.
[1:23:22] At that point then, we have discretion to-
[1:23:25] Got you
[1:23:26] ... get rid of it the way we want and get other properties on the list.
[1:23:29] So I'm
[1:23:31] in favor of just negotiating, getting this property out of the way-
[1:23:36] That's what we want
[1:23:36] ... getting a property that's maybe a little bit more valuable on the list.
[1:23:40] Is it one that we pay tax on?
[1:23:44] I don't believe so.
[1:23:48] Well, then we definitely got an obvious visit.
[1:23:53] As many as we can.
[1:23:54] We're trying.
[1:23:55] I'm okay with either way, as long as we don't set that ridiculous appraisal price
[1:23:59] on it.
[1:24:01] Well, I appreciate you guys being able to make a decision, but you're hung right
[1:24:06] now, so someone's got to tell me what-
[1:24:07] So do we have to vote on this? Do we have to vote?
[1:24:09] You don't have to vote on it. I just would like direction from the majority.
[1:24:12] I'll say, like I'll disagree with what they're saying just to
[1:24:18] get us from the hung jury.
[1:24:19] I say if it's been for sale twice at least with no offers, I say let Dave negotiate
[1:24:24] if there's a resident that's interested then.
[1:24:27] Yeah.
[1:24:29] Well, yeah, Dale said it was three times, so I can go along with it.
[1:24:34] Negotiate with the property owner who requested it?
[1:24:36] Appreciate her highlighting, Dave.
[1:24:37] I drive a hard bargain on lots that I can't wait to get rid of.
[1:24:44] Well, I guess the question then is, do we just go to the one who has asked for it
[1:24:50] or do we talk to all of them?
[1:24:52] I think I was-
[1:24:53] Let them bid against each other
[1:24:55] Would you like me to reach out to all the-
[1:24:57] Yes
[1:24:57] ... adjoining property owners?
[1:24:58] Yes.
[1:24:59] And I'll do that.
[1:25:00] Because that's just fair.
[1:25:01] That's a good middle ground there, then it doesn't get any builders or anybody
[1:25:06] involved. It just keeps... And then with whomever purchasing it, they would
[1:25:10] understand that our requirement would be that the property needs to be added, the
[1:25:14] property line needs to be dissolved.
[1:25:16] Right.
[1:25:17] Okay. I'll do that. I'll take care of that.
[1:25:18] So that would come off of this notice then, that individual lot.
[1:25:23] 68 Shirley Trail was on a previous, but we had gotten a bid, but not a bid that met
[1:25:29] the appraisal value. I had it reappraised this time around, because the last
[1:25:34] appraisal was a good bit higher than what is here now.
[1:25:38] So 68 Shirley Trail and then the two new ones to the list are 10 Martin and 43
[1:25:43] Skylake. They both passed PERC and were appraised, and you can see their values.
[1:25:47] So,
[1:25:50] if there's any specific questions on those lots, I'm glad to do my best to answer
[1:25:54] them. It's taken us quite some time, a lot longer than I anticipated to get to this
[1:25:59] sale. I was hoping to do another one this year, and I don't know that we will.
[1:26:05] But
[1:26:06] once we get this one complete, the next sale needs to be more focused on anything
[1:26:11] that we're paying taxes on and things of that nature.
[1:26:14] Do we have any more sewered lots that are on our...
[1:26:17] We have several sewered lots that we've kicked around the idea of
[1:26:23] selling.
[1:26:26] Most notably the several that we had talked about a couple of months ago on
[1:26:30] Crossland Trail. There's four lots there that there's some floodplain issues
[1:26:36] with them, so there would need to be some lot line reconfiguration, but we never
[1:26:41] really got to the bottom of what we wanted to do, and so I never had it appraised
[1:26:45] yet, because we had others that were on the list.
[1:26:49] What do you think if you do those lot lines, you re-look at the lot lines, how do
[1:26:55] those properties look at possibly selling?
[1:26:59] I think that within reason in Carroll Valley right now, lots that
[1:27:05] have approved sewage planning done on them are selling very quickly.
[1:27:10] I think that it's a good time to sell as long as we don't oversaturate the market.
[1:27:15] Does everybody feel comfortable with him looking at the lines and-
[1:27:19] Let's worry about the ones that are on there right now.
[1:27:20] Yeah.
[1:27:21] It's always good to think ahead.
[1:27:23] Well, and I am. Trust me, I've got a list that sits literally next to my mouse on
[1:27:27] my desk, and I have actually a couple more that some other residents have asked me
[1:27:32] about. I wouldn't have brought this resident one, but they just happened to ask
[1:27:36] about one that you had some flexibility on, so it was easy to work through.
[1:27:43] Okay. Let's take care of these four that remain on the list,
[1:27:49] one, three, four, and five. Do we have a motion to
[1:27:55] approve sending them out for bid?
[1:27:57] I'll make that motion.
[1:27:59] I'll second. We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
[1:28:05] So moved.
[1:28:06] Hearing done. All in favor say aye.
[1:28:10] Aye.
[1:28:11] Opposed? It's unanimous, Gail.
[1:28:14] Thank you.
[1:28:19] Pickleball court.
[1:28:21] That's a lot of stuff on that memo.
[1:28:27] I would strongly encourage you all to digest it tonight.
[1:28:31] You don't necessarily have to talk about it.
[1:28:34] I do want to make sure I point out not only does our park and rec committee
[1:28:40] seriously kick butt at all the events they're doing, I basically copy and pasted
[1:28:44] their stuff they gave me and put it in this memo.
[1:28:46] I
[1:28:48] added some stuff to it and changed it just a little bit.
[1:28:52] But this was basically the idea of how we could get information this fall
[1:28:57] about usage and everything. That was all their idea, and I did ask if they were
[1:29:01] going to volunteer to make sure that we got that, and they did say that they would
[1:29:05] volunteer to
[1:29:08] get the data that they had mentioned in there.
[1:29:10] I like the way they did the usage. It gives our residents
[1:29:16] ample first
[1:29:18] dibs on that pickleball court. I like that.
[1:29:22] Yeah, I think that there was a lot of looking at what other communities do, how
[1:29:27] they address it, understanding that we do have certain limitations on what we can
[1:29:31] and can't do just because of staff limitations here, and plus it's a public park.
[1:29:37] It's really hard to have gated access or whatever.
[1:29:41] People are going to show up at the park to play sometimes, and we have to have
[1:29:45] understanding of those types of things.
[1:29:47] But I think what this does is basically say, in the fall we're going to see
[1:29:53] how it goes and then before spring comes, we'll take the information from the
[1:29:59] fall and make sure that we've got a plan for the warm weather months of
[1:30:04] 2027.
[1:30:05] When is it getting lined?
[1:30:07] Actually, we had a setback yesterday.
[1:30:10] Apparently the fencing was being shipped in and the truck broke down.
[1:30:16] The truck had an accident. I know something happened to our fencing, so it's not
[1:30:20] going to be delivered now until Thursday.
[1:30:22] So, the crew will be here on Monday the 21st to put it up.
[1:30:26] They
[1:30:28] are estimating two to three days to get the fencing up, and then it'll be painted
[1:30:33] right after that, and it will need
[1:30:36] 48 to 72 hours to cure, and then we can open it.
[1:30:39] So we're still hoping by the end of the month it should be done.
[1:30:42] We'll have it open.
[1:30:44] What kind of grass is there? Is there crabgrass there or anything like that?
[1:30:50] Because the reason why I'm asking that is I've got a driveway that's brand new and
[1:30:55] crabgrass is already prickling through it.
[1:30:57] I don't know how the-
[1:30:59] Oh, that one.
[1:31:00] The pickleball court is a little thicker than your driveway.
[1:31:02] Yeah.
[1:31:02] Oh, no, the driveway's pretty thick.
[1:31:04] No, this is a-
[1:31:05] Oh, that one's about 16 inches.
[1:31:07] Yeah.
[1:31:07] They actually cut all the sod out and everything, so we don't anticipate there
[1:31:13] being an issue with that.
[1:31:14] The only reason why that came to mind is when I saw my driveway, I'm like, "Oh
[1:31:18] gosh, what about that pickleball court?"
[1:31:20] Well, we'll have to focus on the edging too after it's finished to make sure that
[1:31:24] there's a good barrier around it to keep anything from creeping, but we're excited
[1:31:28] to see it get finished.
[1:31:32] ... sooner rather than later.
[1:31:34] Okay, so then in the spring, we'll be able to evaluate how things went in the fall,
[1:31:39] and then council will have to weigh in on the different options-
[1:31:44] Right
[1:31:44] ... that were presented to us.
[1:31:46] That's what my plan in my head is, if you're all okay with that.
[1:31:55] Lake Cave
[1:31:57] Mini Park improvements.
[1:32:00] I really just gave you a little memo because I wanted you to see a picture, because
[1:32:03] I didn't know if you'd made it over. And yes, it's still a work in progress.
[1:32:09] Right.
[1:32:09] Thank you. But
[1:32:12] this is awesome. I can't even begin to describe how well this came out.
[1:32:18] I'm just thrilled with it. So, if you have a chance to stop over and look, we still
[1:32:24] have to add site amenities, so there's going to be benches that are added to that
[1:32:29] platform that you see there. There's going to be a picnic table added, a trash can,
[1:32:34] and a small climbing gym area for little ones.
[1:32:38] And we're going to replace the split rail fence that's there now.
[1:32:41] But what's not in this picture is they also redid the driveway going in, and the
[1:32:47] parking lot's just stone. But it
[1:32:50] hadn't been cared for in quite some time, and I'd like to also point out that
[1:32:57] we'd be remiss if we didn't thank the people who volunteered so many years ago to
[1:33:01] build the original dock, and the person who spearheaded those efforts actually
[1:33:05] still lives across the lake and came over and just told us how wonderful it was and
[1:33:09] was thrilled to see it. So, it was nice to hear from the Develins and of course
[1:33:14] thank them for all their efforts 30 years ago, but also for their vote of
[1:33:18] confidence that this is coming out pretty nice too.
[1:33:21] So, real thrilled with how this is coming up.
[1:33:26] Status on the request regarding what grant monies can be used
[1:33:32] to help with the playground equipment.
[1:33:36] We have all the grant money we're going to get.
[1:33:39] So, at this point, our budget is going to stay right where it was
[1:33:44] originally. So, we have the original county grant, which was a matching grant, so
[1:33:48] we had to put funds toward it. What's really great is, I can't tell
[1:33:54] you the number, but I bet Gail knows it.
[1:33:56] How much money have we spent so far on that project?
[1:34:00] $5,750.
[1:34:01] This was all done for $5,000 because your crew did it.
[1:34:06] That's great.
[1:34:06] So,
[1:34:07] when we started out the project, we had about 21 or $22,000 to put toward it,
[1:34:13] thinking that this was going to be way more than that.
[1:34:15] So, we're going to be able to finish the project
[1:34:21] with the monies that have already been allotted to it, since the crew was able to
[1:34:26] save us so much money on their part of the project.
[1:34:30] So the grant money can be used on playground equipment.
[1:34:34] Yes. That's what it's for.
[1:34:37] Very good.
[1:34:42] Next up is the
[1:34:47] storage facility project.
[1:34:49] Yeah, everything's in line for that.
[1:34:51] The contract was sent out to the contractor, and the contractor and
[1:34:57] Brad organized a start day, and I don't know what it is.
[1:35:01] I do know that it's in October at some point there.
[1:35:06] He only projected it to take four weeks to complete, so the contractor.
[1:35:12] But I think everything's in line. I don't think we have a signed contract yet, but
[1:35:16] I think everything's in line for one.
[1:35:21] Meeting Decorum Subcommittee.
[1:35:24] Oh, I think we had the parallel parking thing.
[1:35:26] Yeah, we skipped the parallel parking thing. That's in the packet.
[1:35:29] It's on the back. It's the last entry.
[1:35:31] Oh, got you.
[1:35:32] There were a couple items that didn't have anything in the packet.
[1:35:34] Oh, okay. Good.
[1:35:37] My apologies.
[1:35:38] Yeah, mine too.
[1:35:40] Meeting Decorum Subcommittee met once so far, had a pretty productive meeting.
[1:35:45] We have another meeting we've got to get together on schedules.
[1:35:48] We're going to meet one more time and expect to have something for council October
[1:35:53] meeting.
[1:36:00] Okay. Youth Reading Program?
[1:36:05] Yep. Upcoming, next week on Monday is the final event for the
[1:36:11] Little Readers and Local Leaders this summer. It's at 6:00.
[1:36:16] Anyone is welcome to attend.
[1:36:19] It consists of a children's story time and theme craft afterwards.
[1:36:23] Thank you very much.
[1:36:24] How's it been going?
[1:36:26] Good.
[1:36:28] Good. All right.
[1:36:30] Thank you. Parallel parking practice area.
[1:36:34] We kind of talked about that a little bit earlier today.
[1:36:38] Yeah. I'll let Sarah talk.
[1:36:41] So, the parallel parking area has been implemented on the Ranch Trail Commons
[1:36:46] parking area,
[1:36:48] and it is up now and able to be used. And I'd like to thank both Dave and the
[1:36:54] Borough Council for helping me to bring this vision to life.
[1:36:58] And yeah, so it's up now.
[1:37:02] We're going to make sure that this one hits social media, and give
[1:37:08] job well done on the idea. If for no other reason, as I've reflected
[1:37:14] in the memo that I typed, what these two young ladies do
[1:37:21] sets the tone for the youth of the community that might come after them.
[1:37:27] So, I think we want to celebrate both of their efforts, and we're going to see to
[1:37:31] it that we can do that. And as I did say before the meeting started, I did make my
[1:37:36] way into that with the code car and not hit anything.
[1:37:44] And actually, Municipal Services probably rolled in that as well, didn't they?
[1:37:48] Yeah, they did. Brad helped me lay out the dimensions and everything.
[1:37:54] But it's almost as if this spot was meant for it.
[1:37:58] I don't really know why when we designed the park, we designed the drop-off area
[1:38:03] there, and it looks like there's a curb, but there really isn't, so you're not
[1:38:05] going to damage your car. It's just a perfect area for it.
[1:38:10] So, hopefully, it gets used. Hopefully, it doesn't
[1:38:14] get stolen,
[1:38:17] because nothing's tied down right now. But we'll see how it goes.
[1:38:20] Hopefully, it gets a lot of positive feedback from the community.
[1:38:23] I'd like to say something about these two young ladies.
[1:38:25] We're lucky to have these young girls.
[1:38:27] They're not just sitting here listening and not participating.
[1:38:32] They've come up with two great ideas in recent months, and I want to congratulate
[1:38:36] you girls. Had an opportunity to speak to both of them from the Wildwood Library a
[1:38:41] few weeks ago. These are two very, very nice young women, and I wish them
[1:38:47] well on their college journey. We'll be losing them too. Good luck, girls.
[1:38:52] Thank you.
[1:38:53] Thank you.
[1:38:54] I propose that we do a social media campaign where all the members of the council
[1:38:58] back into the parallel parking
[1:39:01] on video.
[1:39:03] Police officer present.
[1:39:06] With the Simmons girl standing laughing at all of us.
[1:39:11] Well, Dave, couldn't we put that also up on our webpage?
[1:39:15] Yeah.
[1:39:15] In addition to the social media.
[1:39:19] Right now, I can't update the webpage at all.
[1:39:22] Yeah, it's an update.
[1:39:23] Because of what's in the background.
[1:39:27] No, I probably can. I'll check with them first before I do it.
[1:39:30] But
[1:39:32] we will have a new website soon.
[1:39:37] I don't know the exact date yet. It's still in negotiation.
[1:39:43] But I'll see if I can get it on the website.
[1:39:49] And we received reports from Municipal Services, code violation, permit
[1:39:55] fee, wastewater treatment, and I'd like to thank
[1:40:00] each of our
[1:40:02] employees who make those reports
[1:40:06] available to us and send out my thanks.
[1:40:13] Any new business?
[1:40:15] I had a resident ask me a couple questions that I told him I would bring up here
[1:40:21] this evening.
[1:40:25] Resident named Suzy asked about electric streetlights in Carroll Valley.
[1:40:31] Asked where are they
[1:40:34] Streetlights?
[1:40:35] That's what she said.
[1:40:36] Well, it looks like there's about a
[1:40:41] $2,000 cost for them per month.
[1:40:45] Tiffany's shaking her head yes.
[1:40:46] Yeah.
[1:40:47] There's streetlights all over the borough.
[1:40:50] We spend about $35,000 a year on them.
[1:40:55] I thought it was an odd question, but I thought I'd bring it up.
[1:40:57] Yeah. To answer your question, I'd have to give you an extremely long list.
[1:41:03] Take one out from my house. I'd be happy with that.
[1:41:05] Yeah. You can take one out behind my lot.
[1:41:09] No, I think she was more questioning-
[1:41:12] Really hard because of the paints
[1:41:13] ... how much money was being spent the month.
[1:41:15] A lot
[1:41:16] That's why I got it.
[1:41:17] There's a lot of streetlights.
[1:41:20] Yeah. Well, it's my-
[1:41:21] Yeah. It's probably more than $2,000 a month. It's probably closer to three.
[1:41:24] If she's listening then please-
[1:41:27] By the way, a couple of years ago, we did set out to eliminate some that were
[1:41:31] unnecessary, and of all the ones that were taken down, I think every one of them
[1:41:36] was put back up after the residents complained and came before this board again.
[1:41:40] So we gave up on that.
[1:41:44] She can take them.
[1:41:46] And also, I can't remember if it was the same lady or another lady.
[1:41:49] There was two ladies pinging me.
[1:41:53] They asked about the location of the new nature trail, and I thought I knew where
[1:41:58] it was, but I wasn't exactly sure what she was talking about, so I said I'd bring
[1:42:04] it up. Where's that?
[1:42:06] The borough owns a parcel. Well, the original parcel was about 20 acres.
[1:42:11] It borders Skylark Trail,
[1:42:14] what would be the northern side of Skylark Trail, and the other side of it is
[1:42:20] behind the properties on Deer Trail into Spring.
[1:42:26] Hoping they're listening. Also, that same person made the comment that the current
[1:42:32] existing trail in the ranch section is being destroyed by
[1:42:38] ATVs. Is there a problem over there that we-
[1:42:41] ATVs on our property?
[1:42:43] That's what-
[1:42:45] I've not been told of anything like that.
[1:42:47] Tiffany's shaking her head yes again.
[1:42:49] No.
[1:42:50] We have ATV issues in the ranch section, and Cliff would've been the person to ask
[1:42:53] that question because they don't tell me.
[1:42:54] No, they do ride down there in that section. We do know that.
[1:42:58] But I don't think in the park. The only trail we have down there is the oval around
[1:43:02] the soccer fields.
[1:43:03] Talking about in the woods back off there?
[1:43:06] Oh, yeah.
[1:43:06] They've got a forest.
[1:43:07] No, I said the only borough-owned trail is...
[1:43:12] Well, maybe they meant the roads by saying trails.
[1:43:15] She said
[1:43:17] the trail is being destroyed by ATVs.
[1:43:20] Yeah. If you go back, that's not really a nature trail.
[1:43:22] That's where the roads were initially-
[1:43:24] Okay
[1:43:25] ... that were never put in, but if you go back there, there's people riding them.
[1:43:28] Well, we'll pass along the concern to the police department because-
[1:43:30] That's the reason I brought it up because I figured maybe the police would tackle
[1:43:34] this.
[1:43:34] I do know that they've been
[1:43:37] dealing with issues related to off-road vehicles there, but I don't know much about
[1:43:42] it.
[1:43:42] Right.
[1:43:42] She's talking about how there's a trail that goes back down by the creek, out into
[1:43:48] the woods.
[1:43:52] That's where.
[1:43:55] Yeah.
[1:43:56] The one that-
[1:43:56] It's hard to tell since our roads are also trails to know exactly.
[1:43:59] Yeah.
[1:43:59] But so if they give you more information, we'll gladly go to them about our answer.
[1:44:03] We better watch it because I pointed them to the
[1:44:06] meeting, and hopefully they'll respond.
[1:44:12] Okay.
[1:44:22] Do we have a-
[1:44:24] Oh, yeah.
[1:44:25] Need to open to the public?
[1:44:28] Need the three of you?
[1:44:31] All three of you?
[1:44:33] Everybody.
[1:44:33] I do.
[1:44:34] Okay.
[1:44:35] Well, okay.
[1:44:36] I can try.
[1:44:38] Again, Tiffany Bryce, 59 Montrose.
[1:44:41] I just want to thank the council, the manager, and everyone that was involved in
[1:44:47] bringing back up that proposal to save taxpayer money, and thank you for listening
[1:44:52] to us. I think there's a lot of misinformation out there that you guys don't care,
[1:44:56] and you just make up and do whatever you want, but that really showed that if
[1:45:01] people do show up, you do listen. So thank everyone that was involved in putting
[1:45:05] that back out there and making it more visible to save taxpayer money.
[1:45:09] Well, thank you.
[1:45:10] Thank you
[1:45:10] ... for coming in and
[1:45:13] discussing the issue with us because we saved a lot of money.
[1:45:19] We do want to spend the money wisely, and...
[1:45:26] Since I'm the only council, I had a friend recently ask me basically what you were
[1:45:31] just saying, "Do the council members really care, or do they just do what they
[1:45:36] want?" And I said, "I can assure you that everybody that is on the council
[1:45:43] has the best interest of the borough at heart, and I believe that 100%." And I
[1:45:48] didn't know any of these folks before I got on the council last year, except for
[1:45:53] Bruce. I knew casually.
[1:45:57] You're the most involved council that I've had in 22 years by far.
[1:46:03] To a member, everybody's involved.
[1:46:05] Congratulations to you guys for really listening to us all.
[1:46:11] Tell them some more good stuff, Dave.
[1:46:12] That's it.
[1:46:14] That's the extent of my warm and fuzzy today.
[1:46:16] Oh, boy.
[1:46:18] Before we break down the hub, let's adjourn this.
[1:46:23] Okay.
[1:46:23] I'll make a motion we adjourn.
[1:46:25] I'll second.
[1:46:26] We have a motion and a second. Any discussion on that, or are we just going to do
[1:46:32] it?
[1:46:32] Let's do it.
[1:46:33] All in favor say aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
[1:46:34] Aye.
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