[0:04] Okay, it's two minutes after 7:00. It's time to get started.
[0:08] Welcome to the
[0:11] September 23rd Hanover Council Meeting.
[0:14] We'll begin with the call to meeting and the pledge of allegiance, and then
[0:18] followed by a moment of silent reflection.
[0:26] I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the
[0:31] Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty
[0:37] and justice for all.
[0:47] Thank you.
[0:49] And we'll have roll call.
[0:53] Mr. Buck?
[0:54] Here.
[0:55] Mr. Fuentes?
[0:57] Mrs. Funk?
[0:58] Here.
[0:59] Mr. Funk?
[1:03] Is he online?
[1:04] Mr. Funk-
[1:04] If he's calling in, I don't know
[1:05] ... I think he's on Zoom.
[1:08] Mr. Funk is here.
[1:09] Okay, thank you.
[1:09] All right.
[1:10] You're welcome.
[1:13] Mr. Hegberg?
[1:14] Here.
[1:16] Mr. Kress?
[1:20] Mr. Risdon?
[1:21] Here.
[1:22] Mr. Roland?
[1:23] Present.
[1:24] Dr. Rupp?
[1:25] Here.
[1:26] Mr. Scott?
[1:27] Here.
[1:29] Solicitor Shultis?
[1:30] Here.
[1:31] Manager Lewis?
[1:32] Here.
[1:33] Mayor Hornell?
[1:34] Here.
[1:37] Assistant Secretary Felix, and Secretary McElwee,
[1:43] and Junior Council Alexis Day,
[1:48] Alan Stitt. We have a quorum.
[1:50] Thank you very much.
[1:52] Next, we have the designated meeting to make our statement for us, please.
[1:57] Statements made during public comment represent the opinions of the individual
[2:01] speaker. Such comments are not necessarily statements of fact and have not been
[2:06] verified by the borough's elected or appointed officials or staff.
[2:11] The views expressed do not necessarily reflect the positions of the borough, its
[2:15] elected officials, or its employees.
[2:19] When possible, if a question is raised, staff may provide contact information
[2:24] following the meeting so the matter can be addressed.
[2:27] Requests for borough records or documentation must be submitted through the
[2:31] appropriate process in accordance with the Right to Know law.
[2:36] Thank you. Now we have an opportunity to hear citizens concerning any items on our
[2:41] council agenda, and we'll start with Mr. Holt.
[2:45] Good evening.
[2:48] Robert Holt from the third ward.
[2:53] Still a little sore yesterday from the day-long budget discussion.
[3:02] I want to look at 602, the community development block grant funding
[3:07] for the Hanover Street
[3:10] properties, and that's all well and good, and that's pretty nice that the borough
[3:15] is finding a way to get some money to fix private citizen sidewalks,
[3:21] particularly on a street where most of the properties are rentals.
[3:25] And I would expect that the borough would try to find ways to do the similar
[3:32] efforts in other communities where they could find grants and pursue
[3:37] ways to assist homeowners with
[3:42] repairing or improving their sidewalks, particularly since many of the sidewalk
[3:47] issues,
[3:51] cracks, raised tiles, things like that, are caused by trees
[3:57] that are along the berm of the street and are under the control of the tree
[4:02] commission and has absolute authority.
[4:05] Citizens can't
[4:08] do anything to the tree to do any kind of tree management.
[4:12] And I'm thinking that because you guys put those trees there and they're causing
[4:17] the problems, that the borough is responsible for fixing those sidewalks where
[4:22] there are problems. And believe me, I would say about 70% of the sidewalk issues in
[4:28] the borough are where there are trees or once were trees planted in the berm
[4:34] between the street and the sidewalk.
[4:37] I would also look at the transfer station, what they're calling a diversion, but
[4:43] it's going to be a tax increase. They want to temporarily raise the tipping fees at
[4:48] the
[4:49] transfer station. But let's be realistic, and you shouldn't pass this because
[4:55] this is an operation they brag about.
[4:57] They raise excess revenues for the borough's general fund, and why should they be
[5:03] able to just raise taxes in the middle of the year,
[5:07] when it doesn't make sense, and it just looks like a mother borough money
[5:13] grab in the guise of some kind of emergency.
[5:16] Never let a dilemma go to waste, a crisis go to waste.
[5:20] And they say it's going to be temporary, but when was the last time the borough
[5:25] rolled back the taxes after it raised them?
[5:29] I can't recall any time the borough rolled back a tax increase that it raised.
[5:33] So I think you should vote against this, and you should force them to be creative
[5:39] about finding ways to save money and maybe use some of that excess revenue that
[5:44] they generate for the general fund, and they brag about every year, 200, 300,
[5:50] $400,000 and more. So
[5:54] I think you need to think about fiscal prudence, especially since you're already
[5:58] talking about raising garbage collection rates another $24 a quarter next year.
[6:04] So, it just seems like the borough is we can just raise taxes. Thank you.
[6:11] Thank you.
[6:13] Sandy Mount, if you would, please.
[6:26] Sandy Mount, general delivery. I'm afraid it's the same old thing, but I've been
[6:31] receiving encouragement to continue to ask for
[6:37] 502, A, B, and C, the payments, the financial statements, and the
[6:42] investments. There's still no specifics listed or any access granted to those.
[6:51] 504,
[6:53] again,
[6:56] there's no listing anywhere to be found of the records that you're going to be
[7:02] destroying.
[7:04] And then number eight,
[7:07] need some clarification here because I thought Justin McGilvory
[7:12] was going to be the secretary, and now he is the Right to Know
[7:18] officer?
[7:25] Then my other questions will be in the line of comments.
[7:31] And Mr. Garrett, you have a comment, but it's nothing about the first part of the
[7:35] agenda. Do you want to wait till the second part of the agenda?
[7:40] Oh, I'm sorry.
[7:41] I can. It's only going to take a couple.
[7:43] Okay, sure.
[7:46] This is the first time I've ever done this.
[7:48] That's okay. Welcome.
[7:50] So I've been in the borough my whole life, 60-plus years minus a job that took me
[7:55] out of state for a couple of years.
[7:58] I lived over on McKinley Avenue for quite a while, over 20 years, and I thought the
[8:04] speeding problem between Eichelberger and Charles was bad
[8:09] until I moved to Eichelberger Street.
[8:12] And that's a narrower street with tall colonial houses, and it's far worse from
[8:17] Allegheny to Stock Street. Is there anything that can be done as far as the digital
[8:23] speedometers or having someone monitor that every now and then?
[8:28] Because it's so loud, and I've clocked people.
[8:32] There's people doing 50 mile an hour within two blocks. It's crazy.
[8:36] And I know it's pretty much all over the borough, not just Eichelberger, but it
[8:40] just seems... I really did, I really thought McKinley was bad until I got to
[8:43] Eichelberger, and it's far worse. So that's all I have to say.
[8:48] Thank you very much for your comments.
[8:52] Is there anyone online who has any comments to make?
[8:57] There's not. All right.
[9:00] We did have an executive session prior to this meeting, and our solicitor can
[9:04] explain.
[9:06] Borough Council had an executive session this evening from about 6:30 to 7 o'clock
[9:11] To meet with its solicitor to discuss matters which are subject to a lawful
[9:15] privilege under Section 708A5 of the Sunshine Act.
[9:21] Thank you.
[9:23] And next we're pleased to have a presentation and a proclamation.
[9:26] Mayor Harmel, if you would, please.
[9:28] Thank you.
[9:32] He's just turning mics on. You with the ladies?
[9:43] Am I?
[9:45] Yeah.
[9:48] Okay. Come on, don't be shy.
[9:54] I don't know if I should say this as a privilege, but I'm happy that I'm able to
[9:59] make this proclamation because I think it's important information for the community
[10:04] to know about. So I'm going to read a little introduction and then I'll present the
[10:09] proclamation. Because domestic violence affects people across all ages, races, and
[10:15] backgrounds, and can occur in any relationship, the Hanover Borough
[10:20] joins the Hanover YWCA, Safe Home, and groups across the country in
[10:26] recognizing October as Domestic Violence Awareness Month.
[10:31] The impact of domestic violence extends beyond the immediate victims to the
[10:36] children who witness it. It saddened me when I read that more than
[10:41] 92% of homeless mothers have experienced severe physical
[10:47] and/or sexual abuse during their lifetimes.
[10:51] I know our community cares and supports survivors of domestic violence, as well as
[10:56] working toward the prevention and elimination of this crime.
[11:00] Now, therefore, I, Heidi Harmel, Mayor of the Borough of Hanover, York County,
[11:06] Pennsylvania, hereby declare October 2026 as Domestic
[11:12] Violence Awareness Month, and implore all citizens to take a stand against
[11:17] domestic violence. Okay. Thank you, ladies. We're going to take a picture.
[11:23] This is the actual proclamation.
[11:27] Do you want to do me in between or- That'll work.
[11:30] Yes.
[11:30] You want to do that? Yeah. I don't think I've met you. Sorry. That's all right.
[11:33] I'm grabbing you like I know you.
[11:40] It is right side up, right?
[11:41] It is.
[11:43] I have done that.
[11:48] Thank you. Thank you.
[11:49] Thank you.
[11:50] It's good meeting you as well. Shonda White. Shonda White.
[11:53] And Sherry, I've met you.
[11:55] Yeah. Thank you.
[11:56] There you go. That's for you.
[11:57] Thank you.
[11:59] Thank you for all you do.
[12:07] If you haven't had a chance to see the new YW- I was just going to say that. Yeah.
[12:12] You need to go in. You need to ask to go in.
[12:15] I don't think they just want you coming in off the street, but it's absolutely
[12:18] gorgeous.
[12:19] They want to have a grand opening.
[12:22] I don't have the day of the grand opening.
[12:23] New date.
[12:23] Do you have the day of the grand opening?
[12:25] I know there was one visitation already, which I missed. Do you have another date?
[12:31] October 2nd.
[12:32] October 2nd?
[12:33] At 3:00 in the afternoon. We're getting ready.
[12:36] Okay. I'm sure you're still getting ready.
[12:39] Yes.
[12:40] Yeah, but-
[12:41] It's going to be a great place
[12:42] ... but if you go by, as Mayor Harmel mentioned, it is huge.
[12:46] And it's a great improvement for our families and our children and our community as
[12:51] well. So thanks.
[12:52] And for remaining in our downtown.
[12:54] And for remaining in the downtown. Thank you very much.
[12:56] Thank you.
[12:56] All right. Thanks again, and congratulations.
[12:59] Even though it's not a congratulations on a good month- ...
[13:02] but it's a month to make people aware of that. Thank you very much.
[13:06] Next up we have our consent agenda.
[13:08] Does anyone have anything they would like to take out of the consent agenda prior
[13:12] to getting a motion to approve it? So motion.
[13:16] Motion a second?
[13:17] I'll second.
[13:18] All right.
[13:20] Any questions regarding the consent agenda? I'm sorry.
[13:23] All right. All in favor indicate by saying aye.
[13:26] Aye.
[13:26] Aye. Opposed?
[13:28] Motion carries. Moving on to the planning commission.
[13:31] Chuck, would you like to take that from me, please?
[13:34] Okay.
[13:37] 319 Wilson Avenue, consideration of a motion to accept a 90-day extension for the
[13:43] 319 Wilson Fairfield Marriott Hotel project, which would extend the
[13:48] borough's action deadline to December 26, 2026.
[13:52] Thank you. I need a second to that motion. I'll second. We have a second down here.
[13:56] Did you get that? All right. All in favor indicate by saying aye.
[14:00] Aye.
[14:01] Aye. Opposed? That motion carries. And 6.02, Chuck.
[14:05] Consideration of a motion to approve the amendment to the East Hanover Street
[14:09] sidewalk replacement project for the increase in funds of
[14:12] $7,315.68 for a
[14:17] revised grant in the amount of
[14:20] $107,315.68.
[14:24] And a second?
[14:25] Second.
[14:26] All right. Thank you.
[14:28] All in favor indicating by saying aye.
[14:30] I would-
[14:30] Can I just-
[14:31] I'm sorry.
[14:32] Yeah, that's okay.
[14:33] Yes, I'm sorry.
[14:34] No. On A.
[14:36] Yes.
[14:38] We're getting a revised grant, right, Eric?
[14:41] We're getting more money.
[14:42] Additional funds being applied to the project, okay, for the project.
[14:45] Okay, thank you. I just wanted to make that clear. Thank you.
[14:48] Thank you. Any other questions? I'm sorry. All in favor indicate by saying aye.
[14:53] Aye.
[14:53] Aye. Opposed? That motion carries. And the last one, Chuck.
[14:56] Consideration of a motion to authorize the council president to execute directive
[15:02] change order number two for the East Hanover
[15:06] Street sidewalk replacement project in the deductive amount of $830.80.
[15:12] And a second?
[15:13] Second.
[15:14] Any questions regarding that before we vote?
[15:16] Yeah. I'd just like that to be explained to me.
[15:19] Okay.
[15:19] I heard about Boston.
[15:20] Eric, if you would, please.
[15:25] So when we do projects like this, we make an assumption at how much of certain
[15:29] quantities we're going to need. So in this particular case, what we were estimating
[15:33] was the amount of crack sealing along some of the curb, and what we call spalling
[15:37] repair, where there's patches that need to be in the curb.
[15:41] So at the end of the project, we didn't use the full quantity that we needed, so
[15:44] therefore it's a deductive change order.
[15:48] Are we good?
[15:50] Yeah.
[15:50] Any other questions? All in favor of that motion indicate by saying aye.
[15:54] Aye.
[15:54] Aye. Opposed? That motion carries. Moving on to Department of Public Works.
[16:00] I think we'll have AJ explain this, but first of all, I need a motion.
[16:05] Motion. Did somebody make a motion? Thank you. I did. And somebody second it? Good.
[16:10] Okay, AJ, would you explain that to us, please?
[16:13] Wait. Didn't we need a second?
[16:15] So we-
[16:15] I think I got a second. Who motioned and second? Guys, did you second? John?
[16:18] I'll second.
[16:20] Yeah. Chuck.
[16:21] Okay.
[16:21] My hand go up and I didn't see who it was.
[16:24] If I could interrupt.
[16:26] Sure.
[16:27] We really need to make the motion, so we should read-
[16:30] Make the motion first
[16:30] ... what it is so we're actually-
[16:33] Okay. Who made the motion?
[16:34] Jim, what did you just say?
[16:35] I would imagine it was Michelle.
[16:36] We should read the motion first.
[16:37] Okay. Who was the person who made it?
[16:39] You're welcome.
[16:41] Darlene, would you read that, please? We have to make the motion.
[16:44] We have to say the motion. Would you read that, please?
[16:49] 701?
[16:50] 701.
[16:50] 701 transfer station-
[16:52] Yes
[16:52] ... diversion.
[16:53] Yes.
[16:53] Consideration of a motion to approve resolution number
[16:58] 1481, amending the miscellaneous fees to include a
[17:03] temporary fee increase at the transfer station.
[17:08] Thank you. Chuck second it. All right. Now, can you explain that?
[17:11] Sure. So as we talked about last time, the county incinerator was shutting down for
[17:16] maintenance, and they are diverting our transfer station trailers to other
[17:21] landfills. Now at this point, it's now multiple locations.
[17:26] To cover some of those costs for wear and tear on the trailers, we asked to
[17:31] institute this temporary fee. And just to be clear, this is for the transfer
[17:35] station only. This has no effect on residential curbside collection rates.
[17:41] These will be passed on to outside commercial haulers who actually use the transfer
[17:46] station. So there is no effect to the curbside collection rate with this
[17:52] transfer station fee.
[17:54] AJ, do we define temporary?
[17:56] Yes, temporary is as long as the diversion lasts.
[18:00] So at this point, we
[18:02] are predicting that should be over by the end of October, but we do not know.
[18:08] Okay.
[18:08] We're all dependent on the county and when they allow us to come back to the
[18:11] incinerator.
[18:12] Okay.
[18:17] Can you report back to us when that temporary fee is gone?
[18:20] Sure. Yep, absolutely.
[18:23] Well, that helps the question, Brad, if you report back
[18:26] Yeah, because it refers to Resolution 1481, but I don't see-
[18:34] It's a fee increase.
[18:34] Where?
[18:34] It's a fee increase, but I don't see
[18:38] the details about temporary. That's all.
[18:43] Can you explain that again?
[18:46] Right. So the resolution is just to change the actual fee
[18:51] schedule. So last time is when we talked about approving this for the time of just
[18:57] the diversion. So it's in there as a temporary fee
[19:03] within the fee schedule. We cannot define what temporary is going to be
[19:08] because we are dependent on another entity to make the decision for the end date.
[19:14] But I think that-
[19:14] But we can. You can define it as when they stop the diversion
[19:17] When the diversion is over. Right.
[19:19] Right.
[19:19] Yeah. And that's-
[19:20] It is a definition, while it's not a date
[19:22] ... that's what temporary is, right?
[19:24] So-
[19:24] Right. That's what I'm just saying.
[19:26] Yeah.
[19:26] But it's dependent, is I think the word you're looking for.
[19:29] It's dependent on the something.
[19:33] Right. On the reopening of the incident rear. Yep.
[19:37] And you'll report back on that?
[19:38] Yes, I will.
[19:38] Okay.
[19:39] What was the fee and what was the increase in the fee?
[19:44] So, 119 to 121 per ton.
[19:49] 119 to-
[19:50] To 121. The $2 temporary increase gives-
[19:55] $2 increase.
[19:56] Correct. Per ton.
[19:58] 121.
[19:59] Correct.
[20:00] So it's $2.
[20:01] Correct.
[20:02] Eight quarters.
[20:03] Per ton. Yep.
[20:03] But there's a mileage impact additionally.
[20:05] And this is for anybody using that transfer station, correct?
[20:10] Correct.
[20:11] Not billed to the people of Hanover.
[20:13] Right. That's absolutely right. So it has no effect on residential curbside service
[20:18] or that ring.
[20:19] Could you have collected this any other way other than doing-
[20:23] So when we discussed this last time, council was certainly
[20:29] approving of the fact that we pass this on to outside commercial entities rather
[20:33] than to borough residents.
[20:35] Okay. I thank you for that.
[20:37] Sure.
[20:37] Okay.
[20:37] Yep, absolutely.
[20:39] Chair, I have a question.
[20:40] Council Gaither? Yes.
[20:40] The temporary point is that once this is done, settled, will we have
[20:46] to revote in order to make the fee go back down to what was approved, or will it
[20:52] automatically roll back once you've come back and talked to us, I think is the main
[20:56] crux of the question.
[20:58] So paperwork-wise, I'll
[21:02] refer here to Tim, but I believe we would have to take that back out.
[21:07] We would do it immediately, but we would have the paperwork trail follow.
[21:12] You would have what?
[21:13] Tim?
[21:14] He would have the paperwork trail follow.
[21:17] Right.
[21:17] He would take the fee off as soon as they didn't need it anymore.
[21:20] Correct.
[21:21] So it wouldn't have to come back to us.
[21:23] You would automatically-
[21:23] Oh, we're going to see.
[21:24] No, we're going to see.
[21:24] We're going to see. Tim's going to tell us.
[21:26] Yes.
[21:26] Yes. Okay.
[21:27] It would come back to council to approve another amendment to the fee resolution.
[21:33] Okay. Thank you.
[21:33] Thank you.
[21:34] Sure.
[21:35] Well, then we'll know. Thank you. Thank you very much.
[21:38] Yep.
[21:38] Let's have a vote. All in favor of the transfer station diversion indicate by
[21:43] saying aye.
[21:44] Aye.
[21:44] Aye.
[21:45] Opposed?
[21:46] No.
[21:48] The motion carries.
[21:48] Roll call.
[21:50] Oh, do you want to do roll call? Okay, roll call. Okay, go ahead.
[21:54] Brad.
[21:54] We're going to do roll call.
[21:56] We'll do roll call.
[22:14] Thank you. Dr. Rupp?
[22:14] Yes.
[22:16] Mr. Hegberg?
[22:17] Yes.
[22:18] Mrs. Funk?
[22:20] No.
[22:21] Mr. Bob?
[22:22] No.
[22:24] Mr. Funk? I'm sorry.
[22:26] Yes.
[22:27] Yeah, you're
[22:29] here. Mr. Rustan?
[22:30] On the raise.
[22:31] Yes.
[22:32] Mr. Roland?
[22:34] Yes.
[22:36] Mr. Scott?
[22:38] No.
[22:41] Okay, we have three votes in opposition to the motion and seven-
[22:47] Five
[22:48] ... sorry, five votes in favor. So the motion passes.
[22:52] Thank you.
[22:54] Moving on to finance personnel administration.
[22:56] Under that, we have a consideration motion to approve the appointment of Justin
[23:00] McGilvrey as the open records officer. Do I hear a second?
[23:04] Second.
[23:05] Thank you. Any questions regarding that? Just a comment?
[23:10] What is-
[23:10] Just-
[23:11] My question is on the open records office appointment, what is the job?
[23:17] What does it incur?
[23:19] It's freedom of information act.
[23:20] Besides being
[23:23] the secretary-
[23:24] Turn your mic on. Dora, you were that, weren't you?
[23:28] Yeah, I had that role as well. So
[23:33] they answer right to know requests for records.
[23:36] Okay. That's it?
[23:37] Yeah.
[23:38] Okay. Thank you, Dora.
[23:40] Okay. Any other questions? All in favor of that motion indicate by saying aye.
[23:45] Aye.
[23:45] Aye.
[23:45] Opposed? That motion carries. Moving on to additional public comment.
[23:51] I think we do have some additional public comment.
[23:54] Mr. Holt? Yes.
[24:07] I want to thank those who voted no for another tax increase, especially when
[24:13] we know a residential rate tax increase is in the making for 2027.
[24:19] $24 a quarter. And who do you think pays these commercial hauling?
[24:24] Because if you have to get something hauled out of your home or away from your
[24:28] property, well, where are they going to take it?
[24:31] If they take it to the waste transfer station, you'll pay in higher prices.
[24:35] So it's a tax increase.
[24:38] I want to go back to the budget and
[24:43] I feel like I've been played over and over again, and some of
[24:49] you are still playing me, as a taxpayer, and we never
[24:55] hear all the facts. We never see real numbers in
[25:02] logical spreadsheets like we saw from the fire commission.
[25:06] We never hear any real discussion. You're not truthful.
[25:11] You don't tell us the truth. And as Thomas Sowell said that
[25:17] it's not difficult to tell the truth, it's evading the truth that gets complex.
[25:22] But I just think you need another process than what you've been
[25:28] following in these budget discussions, that this cramming everything into
[25:34] one day, and even your own president had to leave because he was getting called
[25:38] away. It's difficult for people to come during the workday to hear anything at all,
[25:43] to have any input, and you've canceled and bypassed tons of
[25:49] committee meetings all year long. Last year, too.
[25:54] And you could've used some of those committee meetings as opportunities to explain
[25:59] things to the public and have some meaningful discussions amongst yourselves
[26:05] because you really don't even have meaningful discussions amongst yourselves
[26:08] because the truth is some of the information that's about this budget actually gets
[26:14] withheld from some of the council members. They don't know.
[26:17] They ask for information, and they get stonewalled.
[26:21] And so this is a dysfunctional process.
[26:25] It continues to disenfranchise the citizens of this borough, and
[26:32] it discourages people from coming to have any kind of meaningful impact and
[26:37] provide their opinions and viewpoints.
[26:41] And you should hear as many viewpoints as you can get.
[26:44] You should be out seeking them. But this process that you have where you say
[26:50] nothing for months leading up to the budget vote, and then you cram it all in one
[26:55] day and say, "Oh, well, we had a public meeting about it and you could've came."
[26:59] You didn't even record it yesterday, so nobody can even watch through the
[27:04] community access station. So I just don't know where you're
[27:10] at and why you think this is public service, but I will remind you, as members of
[27:15] council, you have a governance obligation, and just accepting whatever the staff
[27:21] says and just rubber stamping what's get put in front of you is not governance, and
[27:26] you have an obligation, and you can be held To task for that.
[27:32] And there's no errors and omissions policy that can give you a bypass
[27:37] on not doing your due diligence. And I thank you.
[27:43] Can I also-
[27:44] Sandy.
[27:46] Okay.
[27:46] Sandy Mount.
[27:47] Okay.
[27:51] Start that again. How do you start that again?
[28:01] I'll start off with the theater. I only had the theater on my list, but I will
[28:06] respond to that.
[28:09] I'm going to take this opportunity to apologize to the individuals who placed their
[28:14] trust in me in obtaining information regarding the theater on Frederick Street.
[28:19] As you well know, through community media, you saw the response that I received.
[28:24] "No, no, no."
[28:27] Yesterday, at the budget meeting, we found out that two-thirds of that building
[28:34] are being considered for demolition, and I underline considered,
[28:39] with a front facade surviving, but not necessarily the marquee.
[28:44] Do I have that correct?
[28:52] Years ago,
[28:54] late '60s, I believe,
[28:57] Gettysburg recognized they had a goldmine in their history.
[29:06] Somebody want to take over for me?
[29:15] They created a very strong tourist industry, which continues to
[29:20] thrive today.
[29:23] Hanover, unfortunately, failed to take advantage of that and follow suit.
[29:28] Consequently, the millions of dollars that Gettysburg has enjoyed from their
[29:33] investment in their history and their tourists has not come to Hanover.
[29:40] And today, as you consider destroying one of the landmarks that could possibly be a
[29:45] money generator, I wonder
[29:49] when you will ever learn.
[29:55] And
[29:56] next, I'd like to thank
[29:59] Mariah Tyler from Main Street Hanover for the quick response to my questions at the
[30:05] meeting yesterday.
[30:09] And lastly,
[30:12] Mr. Holt, you come before this
[30:17] body, pontificating every single meeting.
[30:22] You speak with a forked tongue.
[30:26] Your entire profession
[30:29] thrives- I'm sorry
[30:30] ... on distorting the truth.
[30:32] I'm sorry, Sandy. I'm going to have to interrupt.
[30:34] It's inappropriate to speak about anyone from that podium.
[30:38] Well, I talk about the
[30:42] profession in general.
[30:44] Please be professional in your comments.
[30:47] I will try.
[30:54] You have
[30:58] led me to believe, as the rest of the profession, that you were going to help to
[31:03] get this resolved, and instead
[31:07] you played me for a fool, and I guarantee you, I am not a fool.
[31:13] Thank you, Sandy.
[31:18] We are pleased to have Chief Joe Bunty give us a police department update.
[31:22] Did I miss something? I'm sorry. Online participants? I'm sorry, I missed that.
[31:27] No. There is none.
[31:29] Nobody?
[31:30] Well, wait, don't they have to do statement?
[31:32] No, not for this.
[31:35] Oh.
[31:35] That's okay. AJ, just jump up.
[31:37] Okay.
[31:39] Anyone else that has anything before Joe does his presentation, please come up.
[31:43] I would like to say something, but-
[31:45] We can let AJ go first.
[31:46] Sure.
[31:48] So, okay. So, we usually hold this for announcements, but in order of allowing Mr.
[31:53] Bunty to go unfettered afterwards.
[31:56] So just a couple points of clarification as we usually do here at the end where
[32:00] some things may have been misunderstood.
[32:04] Two things. First of all, the hauling, and the temporary $2 fee,
[32:13] we went into this in depth last week, but the main payer of that would be outside
[32:18] commercial haulers who are hauling trash from other locations outside of the
[32:23] borough to the transfer station,
[32:27] to then take them somewhere else. So again, this affects nothing with residents.
[32:33] It would not affect anything if you call us to come and pick up large items.
[32:36] The only way it would affect you is if you were to load up a wagon with 2,000
[32:40] pounds and take it to the transfer station, you would have to pay an extra $2.
[32:46] Secondly, it was brought up about the proposed increase.
[32:49] The proposed increase on trash that we brought up yesterday was
[32:55] approximately $24 annually, not $24 per quarter. That's all. Thank you.
[33:00] Say that again.
[33:02] Not $24 per quarter?
[33:04] Annually, not per quarter. Correct.
[33:08] So that'd be $2 a month.
[33:10] Right. $6-
[33:12] That's a sizable difference. Thank you.
[33:15] Anyone else, updates? Okay.
[33:18] I have-
[33:18] Okay. Chief.
[33:20] Should I go after-
[33:22] I'm sorry
[33:22] ... or before?
[33:24] Either.
[33:24] I want to bring up a point.
[33:28] I didn't hear you.
[33:29] Can I bring up a point now, or should I wait?
[33:31] Yeah. Go ahead, please.
[33:32] Okay.
[33:34] Most of us received an email from a landlord, I'll leave anonymous, but
[33:39] she brought up a good point about notifying
[33:46] enough where they can respond
[33:51] appropriately, because she was trying to respond appropriately, but missed one
[33:56] notification. So I want to actually open that up for discussion and understand
[34:01] better how we are notifying for rental registry currently,
[34:08] and incentivize people too, because that was one issue that we brought up
[34:13] yesterday, that we need to
[34:18] get more people to actually register, and maybe if we incentivize that process.
[34:25] So,
[34:28] what was claimed to have happened is that
[34:33] 2025 registry was done, 2026 came around, no invoice was sent out,
[34:39] or it was missed. And then March, I think there was an email, and then again,
[34:45] that was missed, and then September rolled around, it was finally caught.
[34:52] So my suggestion would be more emails,
[34:57] and potentially
[35:00] at a weekly
[35:02] compounding, like a small amount, like $5 a week, but a weekly email to
[35:08] notify weekly. So it's really hard to avoid,
[35:14] which adds up to the same amount. If it's five, whatever the amount is.
[35:19] And then have an early bird
[35:23] option. So if it's due January 31st, I think is the deadline,
[35:28] bring it back to December 30th to say, $5 off, which could be
[35:35] incentive enough,
[35:37] to pay early.
[35:41] And then
[35:44] I think it's a new program. I think we owe it to them.
[35:48] Everybody's trying to
[35:50] get there with this to provide some amnesty to these late payments for
[35:56] that first year,
[35:58] up to a point.
[36:01] So there's a precedent, like no precedent, sorry, where this can't be used
[36:07] again. But for this previous program, the registry, have
[36:13] those fees applied to, credited towards their account
[36:19] for future registry,
[36:21] just for that first year to get through it because this was confusing everybody,
[36:25] apparently. So
[36:29] for the first year only,
[36:32] okay? So that people can get up to speed without being penalized.
[36:39] And then-
[36:41] I think those are all my thoughts. But really just to enhance the notification
[36:49] cadence.
[36:51] Could I respond?
[36:53] Sure.
[36:54] Okay. So I am in receipt of the email late today,
[37:00] and have begun a response. I have all the information I need from Chris.
[37:05] I actually spoke to the woman who wrote the email to all of you, personally.
[37:11] We are responsible for holding to our fee schedule.
[37:16] The person was notified multiple times. This is not the first year.
[37:19] Last year was the first year, and they complied last year with no problem, and were
[37:24] not assessed a late fee last year. No one was assessed a late fee last year, unless
[37:29] they didn't pay until this year. Now,
[37:32] you have some of the information that's accurate from the individual and some was
[37:36] left out. So that's about all I want to say, but I am copying each of you
[37:41] on
[37:43] my response to her.
[37:46] Okay. I just want to be-
[37:48] If we do it for one, Brad, we have to do it for everybody.
[37:50] No, I know. We would have to.
[37:52] It would be like a chief pulling somebody over and-
[37:55] No, I know
[37:56] ... saying, "Okay, I'm going to let this-"
[37:59] I think it should be, honestly. Because the first time, you're not going to miss.
[38:03] They did a very good campaign of getting the word out, Facebook, et cetera.
[38:09] I just want to be sure that persists through,
[38:13] because they were expecting a paper invoice of some sort in it.
[38:19] Okay. Well, all right. So I got one side of the story, but I understand that.
[38:26] Going forward, though, take that...
[38:30] This is a customer complaint, let's just call it that,
[38:34] and
[38:36] take it into the next project, which would be the inspection, and try to roll this
[38:41] together
[38:43] for the sake of
[38:45] the burden, to reduce the burden on the landlords,
[38:50] and potentially have that payment process
[38:57] and the scheduling rolled into one, so they don't have to be...
[39:02] So they're currently thinking of it. They're paying the registration.
[39:06] "Okay, let's schedule." So it's all one process, and I think all this can be
[39:11] automated
[39:12] through the software, so create workflows to...
[39:17] I think it'd be better to over-communicate than under, especially in this
[39:21] situation. That's all. And so I don't think it would tax you any more
[39:29] to just set up an automated. If
[39:32] they have fees approaching, they get the automated email,
[39:38] and then in addition, a paper copy
[39:43] at a certain point, and that would be...
[39:49] All that's open for discussion. I just want to have the discussion and potentially
[39:54] create a resolution for that.
[39:57] Well, it sounds like Mark just wanted to-
[39:59] Now, it might be to hold off until we're actually talking about the inspection
[40:05] and roll it all into one, but I just want to bring it up.
[40:09] Well, apparently the rental inspection is going to be addressed at the next Public
[40:12] Safety Committee, and you may have missed that.
[40:17] No, I caught that.
[40:19] Okay. All right.
[40:20] I don't think the public knew that, but now they do.
[40:24] So yeah, the rental inspection will be brought back to Public Safety-
[40:28] Mm-hmm
[40:28] ... and we'll have another chance to discuss
[40:32] details.
[40:34] Wonderful.
[40:34] So I would like to include improving, taking what we've learned from the
[40:39] registration program and apply it,
[40:45] because it's a good pilot. Let's just call it that. That's all.
[40:51] Mark, you any other comments? You good? All right. Okay, where are we here?
[40:57] Oh,
[40:58] anything else? It's the police chief's time. Please join us. Thank you.
[41:04] Thank you, Your Honor.
[41:13] Good evening. As you know, Joe Montine, Chief of Police.
[41:18] Thank you for having me tonight. I'd like to deliver a staff update for the police
[41:22] department or a state of the department address, if I may.
[41:27] The organizational chart currently, as you can see,
[41:31] overall, above the department, doesn't show up on the light, but you see the mayor
[41:35] and the flow down to the chief of police.
[41:37] The department then branches into the operational side with the lieutenant, and the
[41:41] flow under the lieutenant of being four patrol sergeants that are direct reports.
[41:45] At the bottom, you'll see a vacant detective sergeant position, and then a
[41:49] detective, an evidence technician, and an additional vacant detective spot.
[41:54] Looking at the administrative side, to the right, we have an administrative
[41:57] operations manager and a clerk, as well as an administrative clerk, and one of
[42:02] those positions will be vacant as of January 27.
[42:07] And that was planned, and the administrative operations manager position will cover
[42:12] for that. Personnel and staffing, currently, the approved complement, we discussed
[42:16] this yesterday in budget, was 26. There is a desire to add a dedicated drug
[42:21] investigator. We also discussed this yesterday during budget and talked about it
[42:25] being reasonable or feasible in '27, and currently, the goal overall is to reach
[42:30] the complement of 26 in what we call staff the street.
[42:34] Currently, we have 21 personnel, including a recent lateral transfer that we hired,
[42:39] as well as two cadets in the academy, and that places us down three.
[42:44] And then retirement on November 9th, it is planned, we will lose an officer, and
[42:48] that will place us down four.
[42:51] And this is a reference to the total complement of 26 and not the desired
[42:54] complement of 27.
[42:58] Current hiring status. So the police department is hired with the Metropolitan New
[43:03] York Police Testing Consortium since approximately 2008.
[43:07] The peak applicant numbers at one time were around 700 in a testing cycle.
[43:12] Testing at one time required sessions on Friday evening, Saturday, and Sunday
[43:16] morning.
[43:18] Unfortunately, that is no longer the case.
[43:20] The spring and fall 2026 sessions netted approximately 35 and 25 candidates,
[43:25] respectively. The police department also held our first lateral exam in
[43:31] 2026 with your approval and the approval of civil service.
[43:34] We received two applicants. One was hired, and that officer is currently in an
[43:38] administrative period, working in the office right now until they begin their field
[43:42] training program next week. We are also currently working on a fall 2026 hiring
[43:47] list. We've actually already contacted all the candidates from the previous test on
[43:52] the last two Saturdays, and we have appointments with all the candidates that would
[43:56] be viable for us and would be able to meet our qualifications regarding the
[44:01] testing. So they're already on queue to be interviewed, and we will proceed from
[44:05] there with background investigations.
[44:07] And also, we are still currently planning on conducting another lateral exam as
[44:11] needed.
[44:13] Identity and branding. As you know, we've discussed this before.
[44:16] The officers had designed a new shoulder sleeve insignia or patch to wear.
[44:20] They've done that. The patches have been received, and we are currently working
[44:24] with a local tailor for sewing and developing a schedule to have them sewn onto the
[44:28] uniforms and outer garments. The police vehicles, they also came up with a design
[44:34] back in the January, February timeframe with the transition of the department and
[44:38] came up with a new schematic. We have one vehicle that has already been taken to an
[44:42] outfitter. It is currently at the outfitter, has the new design on it, and we have
[44:46] two vehicles in queue to go. And the expectation to place the first vehicle in
[44:50] service is somewhere between approximately September 28th and October 2nd.
[44:55] A little bit of supply chain issue with some of the parts for that vehicle.
[44:58] As soon as that is assembled and is returned to us, you will see it on the street,
[45:02] and we will then cycle another vehicle through.
[45:05] We upfit vehicles one at a time to maintain our fleet and have as many vehicles
[45:08] available as possible within the borough, and at the same time, we want to try our
[45:12] best to do this efficiently.
[45:15] Noise ordinance report. As you know, there's a quarterly requirement for a noise
[45:19] ordinance report. And just a quick look back, going from May 1st to August 31st, as
[45:24] part of the report, we had 124 cases that also included domestic arguments, loud
[45:29] neighbors, loud music, barking dogs.
[45:31] We issued, in that time period, 91 non-traffic citations, excuse me, for noise
[45:36] ordinances, disorderly conduct, and harassment.
[45:39] 29 written warnings for the noise ordinance itself and specifics of the ordinance
[45:42] were issued, and there were 33 verbal warnings for noise ordinance, and five
[45:46] incidents where we educated the public on the noise ordinance.
[45:49] So it is being enforced.
[45:53] Also, May 1st through August 31st, we saw a generally localized
[45:59] situation with three places in the borough, three geographic locations, the 1100
[46:03] block of Carlisle Street, where we had several large gatherings of subjects that we
[46:07] would disperse and issue them warnings for noise ordinance violations and other
[46:10] activities. The 200 block of Baltimore Street and center block of North Franklin
[46:14] Street also saw upticks in calls related to disturbances.
[46:20] Quality of life and order maintenance.
[46:21] One of the things that we discussed early on with this administration in coming on
[46:25] was that we wanted to try to improve the quality of life for borough residents and
[46:28] visitors. And the definition for us of quality of life offenses include things like
[46:34] criminal trespass, liquor law violations, disorderly conduct, public drunkenness,
[46:39] scattered rubbish, and although it's not a quality of life issue itself, but
[46:42] somewhat parallel and often related, are assaults.
[46:47] Currently, one of the reports that I'm trying to provide to Borough Council is a
[46:50] report that is geographically focused on Centre Square and the first two blocks of
[46:54] Baltimore Street, Carlisle Street, and Frederick Street, or what we call the
[46:57] business district. This is an area that's drawn a lot of focus over the summer, so
[47:01] this is an area that we've directed patrols and provided some direction to the
[47:04] officers regarding enforcement.
[47:08] In that time frame of July 1st through August 31st, we had six incidents of
[47:12] criminal trespass, and we issued five non-traffic citations.
[47:16] We had zero incidents that we detected or reported of a liquor law violation
[47:20] pertaining to underage drinking. Disorderly conduct, 13 incidents.
[47:24] We issued 10 non-traffic citations, and there was one charge of disorderly conduct
[47:29] that was on a criminal complaint for a misdemeanor offense.
[47:32] Public drunkenness, 100% enforcement.
[47:35] There were eight incidents that were either reported or detected, and we issued
[47:38] eight non-traffic citations. Scattered rubbish, did not detect any.
[47:42] And assaults, we had one assault that was reported or detected, and we did charge
[47:46] somebody and arrest them with a criminal complaint.
[47:49] So overall, going back to that,
[47:52] pretty high levels of enforcement.
[47:54] Percentage is pretty high that if one of those incidents occurs in that business
[47:57] district, we close the case with an arrest or some type of enforcement action.
[48:02] Moving forward with additional quality of life and order maintenance issues, I'd
[48:06] like to talk about the unhoused population. This has been a hot topic.
[48:09] I've had various members of Borough Council and other elected officials come to me
[48:12] and want to discuss the unhoused population of the borough and issues associated to
[48:17] the unhoused population. Three common approaches that you'll find in police-related
[48:22] textbooks or patrol-related textbooks regarding the unhoused population and trying
[48:28] to perhaps navigate that issue, the approaches would be zero tolerance enforcement
[48:33] across the board, outsourcing, and benign neglect.
[48:36] Obviously, the police department knows that the Borough Council has zero intent to
[48:40] engage in benign neglect, and you also realize that we should be compassionate and
[48:45] not engage in strict zero tolerance enforcement.
[48:50] We have elected to attempt to do everything through a hybrid approach regarding the
[48:55] unhoused population of both selective enforcement and a direction to resources.
[48:58] So really combining somewhat of zero tolerance where it would be applicable, but
[49:03] also outsourcing, trying to provide direction to resources.
[49:08] Some of the operations that we've engaged in include cooperation with code
[49:11] enforcement and public works, a timely response to complaints of scattered rubbish,
[49:16] abandoned property, and quality of life issues.
[49:18] A couple of examples of this are the scattered rubbish that we sometimes see,
[49:22] downtown area parks, et cetera, where property has been abandoned, left behind, or
[49:25] scattered. We would call Director Grimm's office.
[49:28] They would send a truck out almost immediately.
[49:31] We would gather those items up, and we would dispose of them.
[49:35] We shorten the loop on that between public works and the police department by not
[49:38] submitting a paper work order necessarily and waiting a business day over the
[49:42] course of a weekend. Director Grimm has provided a vehicle and a crew almost
[49:46] immediately every time. This includes also if we would find an abandoned campsite,
[49:50] something like that. If it's scattered rubbish, there's no expectation of privacy,
[49:54] and we have not encountered any reason to hold that property.
[49:57] If it looks like trash, we dispose of it immediately.
[50:01] Shopping cart return initiative with code enforcement.
[50:05] A little-known law in Title 18 is actually the misuse of a shopping cart or a crate
[50:11] from a retail establishment. And one of the things that code enforcement under
[50:16] Chief Miller has brought forth was an initiative to try to return shopping carts to
[50:20] retail establishments. We've assisted with this, and when we spot shopping carts,
[50:24] we contact the stores or contact code enforcement and ask them to, and we then
[50:29] arrange for shopping carts to be picked up and taken back to stores.
[50:34] And directed patrols. Again, based on call volume, complaint volume, and the
[50:38] general pulse of the public as well as feedback we've received from our Borough
[50:42] Council and other officials, we've tried to direct patrols to the areas where they
[50:46] are most likely needed.
[50:48] The last thing I'd like to speak about on this slide is the CIT form submission.
[50:53] CIT stands for Crisis Intervention Team.
[50:56] The majority of the police officers in the Hanover Borough Police Department have
[50:58] undergone a 40-hour crisis intervention team program.
[51:02] This 40-hour program is designed to train officers to encounter, engage, and
[51:08] help solve problems with members of a population that may have a mental wellness or
[51:12] emotional wellness issue. When they complete those calls, all officers, not just
[51:17] CIT-trained officers, will submit a CIT form, which we then submit to the county,
[51:23] to the co-responder program. They can then reach back out to the person that we
[51:27] made contact with, try to contact them, and offer them some types of services.
[51:32] They will actually, they being the county, being the co-responder program, will
[51:36] actually contact us, follow up, and ask for more information, or they may contact
[51:40] us and tell us the outcome of their contact and if somebody accepted resources or
[51:46] is now in programming, something like that.
[51:49] So it does work, and it's just another method of hopefully addressing a situation
[51:54] and bringing resources to people that need it.
[51:58] Additionally, some other efforts to discuss zero tolerance.
[52:02] There have been some zero tolerance enforcement directions given to the patrols,
[52:07] specifically, as I stated, the downtown area, the business district, Centre Square.
[52:12] Through the number of complaints that we received and the frequency of the
[52:15] complaints and the intensity of some of the situations, I gave direction to the
[52:19] department this summer to go ahead and enforce everything zero tolerance on the
[52:24] square. If it was a quality of life issue, we were going to charge for it.
[52:28] Anecdotally, I believe in some ways it's made a difference when I drive through the
[52:30] square and I'm looking. However, I'm not satisfied necessarily.
[52:34] I don't expect council will be either, and I would hope that you're actually not.
[52:39] Cooperative efforts also with communication with partner organizations resulting
[52:42] recently in a zero tolerance agreement and following citations.
[52:47] This bullet speaks specifically to an agreement that was developed between the
[52:51] police department and a private property situation or an owner of a private
[52:55] property that is an organization in the borough where they had encountered numerous
[52:59] problems that were quality of life related.
[53:03] They initially tried to warn subjects or people. They tried to educate them.
[53:08] They tried to provide a certain level of tolerance to the behavior, and eventually
[53:14] it was obvious that that was not working. They contacted us.
[53:16] They told us that they would support prosecution, and within a very short period of
[53:20] time, we'd issued several citations.
[53:22] That same location is also carefully patrolled by code enforcement because they've
[53:26] also found problems there that pertain specifically to code-related issues, and so
[53:31] we've both been working on that to hopefully, through the course of enforcement,
[53:35] deter further activities that would go against the norms and ordinances and laws of
[53:38] the Borough of Hanover.
[53:42] Again, just to speak briefly to the co-responder program and an update to the
[53:46] council on co-responder. We currently have a co-responder; however, it is a remote
[53:49] co-responder. Previously, going back to 2021, for several years, we had a
[53:54] co-responder that was located with the police department.
[53:57] Unfortunately, we lost the staffing of that co-responder.
[54:00] But we do have a co-responder that is located in Adams County, falls under the same
[54:04] parent organization, and they will assist us if needed and can be called and
[54:08] summoned to the scene. Additionally, there is a co-responder position that they are
[54:13] trying to fill at this time, which will double the number of co-responders that
[54:16] will be available to us, and we look forward to that because we have some plans, as
[54:21] you'll see, to use that co-responder in another effort.
[54:27] There were two previous efforts that are notable in the County of York.
[54:30] I'd like to talk about them very briefly.
[54:32] One was in Springsbury Township, and one was in New York City.
[54:35] Both of these were related to the unhoused population.
[54:39] A comparison of those events are more in line with large encampments or populations
[54:44] that were unhoused and were in some type of small outdoor area.
[54:49] There was tentage, tarps, things like that, and they were there and somewhat
[54:53] embedded in the community. In both of those situations
[54:57] They developed plans in cooperation with both police agencies and other disciplines
[55:02] such as MHIDD, Friends and Neighbors, the York County Homeless Coalition, and all
[55:07] of them worked together beginning initially with an outreach program, education,
[55:12] offering resources, and then developing a timeline.
[55:15] After the timeline had expired, they then would try to relocate, and if they needed
[55:19] to at that point, they adopted an enforcement policy.
[55:23] We're somewhat different in that situation.
[55:27] In our situation, we do not have the large encampments.
[55:30] We've been addressing those situations on a case-by-case basis, but we do recognize
[55:34] that we have an unhoused population, and we understand that also that population is
[55:38] somewhat underrepresented, and we want to try to get resources to them that may
[55:41] cause them to have a positive transition, and it may solve some of the issue or
[55:45] address some of the issue. At the same time, we recognize that there may be law and
[55:49] legal issues that we have to address under Title 18 of our ordinance, and we'll do
[55:53] so. Our plan is to do something similar as we move forward, but it's going to be
[55:58] tailor-made for the borough, and it would include police, MHIDD, York County
[56:02] Coalition on Homelessness, Life Changing Pathways, Friends and Neighbors.
[56:06] So we've contacted them. I sent them an email trying to start that process and put
[56:11] a meeting together to see if they would all be partners.
[56:13] So I can't speak at this point and say that they're in or that it's a guarantee,
[56:16] but they did assist both York City and Springsbury.
[56:20] I believe they're both committed, so hopefully we'll have some success there.
[56:25] Our goal with a positive response from those agencies is to team together and have
[56:29] a multidisciplinary response effort.
[56:32] And my vision of that would be actual public outreach, probably in the evening
[56:36] hours, late afternoon to evening hours, where we would go out on foot face-to-face.
[56:41] The law enforcement footprint or signature would actually be small.
[56:44] We'd be there for safety because initially the goal is not necessarily law
[56:47] enforcement or zero tolerance enforcement of laws.
[56:50] We're doing that at the areas now where that needs to be done, but this would be
[56:53] more for outreach and trying to deliver services and direct people to those points
[56:57] of assistance that could hopefully cause a positive transition.
[57:03] That's really it.
[57:06] Does anybody have any questions?
[57:08] I do.
[57:09] Sir.
[57:11] Did you-
[57:12] The other Mike does.
[57:13] Oh, I'm sorry.
[57:13] Sorry.
[57:15] I do appreciate you putting an emphasis on the noise ordinance in general.
[57:20] I noticed that most of what you identified was stationary sources and not mobile.
[57:24] That's correct, sir.
[57:25] I don't know if you have any data on mobile, but mobile is one of the biggest
[57:29] problems, particularly cars that are so loud that they jack up their stereo three
[57:34] times louder.
[57:37] So I just wanted to know how are we going to address some of the more mobile
[57:42] sources?
[57:44] I would say with the mobile situation, it's going to have to be an on view
[57:46] situation where somebody actually sees it.
[57:49] There is a possibility of having a stationary detail that would observe a location
[57:52] where we have repeated complaints, and we could target that area because we know
[57:56] that there's a probability we would see that offense, and that's definitely a way
[58:00] we can handle that and address that.
[58:01] Generally Friday nights or the first 65-degree day in the spring.
[58:05] Sure.
[58:06] In the square you will get them.
[58:09] And that's definitely a direction we can add to the zero tolerance on the square at
[58:12] this point in time. And perhaps because it is somewhat different from the other
[58:15] issue, we'd probably begin with a discretionary program of warnings, gain
[58:20] compliance, and then move on from there.
[58:25] Yes, I have several. First I wanted to go back to you said the,
[58:33] it was NTC, the non-car citation, right?
[58:39] Just so I can have a better understanding of that.
[58:41] That is when someone's citation is not involved in a vehicle.
[58:45] Is that what that means?
[58:46] Correct. A non-traffic citation. I apologize, Councilman.
[58:49] No, no, no, it's okay.
[58:49] Yep.
[58:49] It was just seeing, knowing what it is, I assumed the word explained what it was.
[58:54] Sure.
[58:54] I didn't want it to be anything else.
[58:56] Right. So in the commonwealth, we have two citations.
[58:58] One is traffic, and one is non-traffic.
[59:00] So your criminal offenses, they fall under the NTC.
[59:03] We issue the non-traffic for those.
[59:04] Perfect. And then going to the
[59:10] one situation in York. Were you talking about the compassionate cleanout or the one
[59:13] they had in downtown city with an encampment?
[59:16] So I wouldn't be able to say which one it is specifically.
[59:19] Yeah.
[59:19] What I will tell you is that I've been in touch with a member of the DA's office
[59:23] that was in some way involved in both incidents, not incidents, but in both
[59:29] operations in York City and in Springsbury, and they provided me with kind of a
[59:33] pathway to follow with those other organizations.
[59:37] Yes. Just with
[59:40] those members as well, how they were done working with members was a different
[59:44] operation, I would say. I think the compassionate cleanout that happened this
[59:49] spring, right? It was a different approach than the one encampment that happened
[59:54] that was downtown York, right? Downtown York happened because, an encampment
[59:57] happened because of the benign neglect from the mayor's office, right?
[1:00:01] And so that was a bad situation that happened because of that.
[1:00:03] So I'm happy to see you're going to try to take that approach, right?
[1:00:06] It is a bad
[1:00:09] equation for everyone involved with that, so I'm happy to see that.
[1:00:12] And those groups you have there, I think makes a lot of sense.
[1:00:16] I'd also just remember as well to work with Changing Lives Shelter, I imagine-
[1:00:20] Sure
[1:00:20] ... I don't think you're not going to forget that or the BLH group.
[1:00:23] Right.
[1:00:24] The Friends and Neighbors was doing a really good job.
[1:00:27] But because I'm on these calls, right?
[1:00:30] I'm on the monthly calls for what's going on throughout the entire county, so I
[1:00:34] know what the groups are looking at, like not just for Changing Lives, but also in
[1:00:39] York City itself.
[1:00:41] If they don't get back to you this week, give them time.
[1:00:44] HUD just reopened their whole approval process for something else because of the-
[1:00:48] Okay
[1:00:48] ... whole lawsuit, everything else.
[1:00:50] If they don't get back to you by October, please let me know and I'll make sure-
[1:00:52] Sure
[1:00:52] ... Kelly gets back to you.
[1:00:53] I appreciate that. Thank you.
[1:00:54] Of course.
[1:00:56] But this seems really pretty good.
[1:00:58] The thing I'd also add is you can email this to me.
[1:01:00] As you know, I'm a big fan who likes seeing electronic documents.
[1:01:03] Certainly.
[1:01:03] So I can always go back to it.
[1:01:05] No problem. And we'll actually make sure that all council can have this, then.
[1:01:08] I'm going to assume nonetheless.
[1:01:09] And Council-
[1:01:10] Certainly
[1:01:11] ... just done a great job of giving us an overview of what our policemen do.
[1:01:14] They're pretty busy people, and I appreciate your concentration downtown.
[1:01:17] I'm sure the rest of us do, and I'm sure the citizens do, too.
[1:01:21] And if there's anything we can ever do to help you, you need to let us know.
[1:01:23] All right. Thank you very much.
[1:01:24] Thank you very much.
[1:01:25] Thank you.
[1:01:26] I have a question.
[1:01:26] I'm sorry. Yes, please.
[1:01:29] Are we showing any improvement in the
[1:01:35] homeless situation? Because I passed tonight at New Hope, and
[1:01:41] they were sitting on, lounging, laying.
[1:01:45] What I'm saying is
[1:01:48] they have the right to sit on the sidewalks if they want to, and I realize all the
[1:01:52] legality of this, but the complaints that are coming into me from my fifth ward
[1:01:58] are unbelievable. And tonight when I crossed over to attend these meetings tonight,
[1:02:05] they were there. Sometimes they're gone.
[1:02:10] How are you handling that at the two
[1:02:16] key areas? One was on Corl and one was on Baltimore Street,
[1:02:22] because when the people want to go to the Center Square, they pass through all of
[1:02:27] this. So the indication of what we're dealing with is there before they
[1:02:33] reach Center Square. Are we seeing any type of improvements?
[1:02:38] Are we making any headways right here in our own town?
[1:02:42] I know we're addressing York, but I don't live in York, and the people that are
[1:02:47] responding and calling me don't live in York. They live here.
[1:02:52] And their question is,
[1:02:55] is it improving? Because what they're seeing is it is not improving.
[1:02:59] I think you made some headway out around Royal,
[1:03:05] there where the old Sears building is.
[1:03:07] Right.
[1:03:07] You had a problem. Okay.
[1:03:11] Are we making headway? Do you see anything that gives us at least hope
[1:03:18] that we're resolving these issues, or are we simply going round robin and
[1:03:23] continuing to spend more and more of the taxpayers' money, which we
[1:03:29] are, because all the money comes in from people who either donate or they're
[1:03:33] taxpayers. Are we seeing any improvement at all
[1:03:39] from our area? I don't care about York. I really don't.
[1:03:43] But I do care about Hanover because I'm here to represent the people.
[1:03:48] Is there anything we can give them, any updates?
[1:03:53] Yes, Councilor Funk. I think if you go back and you look at, first things first,
[1:03:58] statistically, the issuance of citations and/or charges, and the fact that we are
[1:04:04] in some of those areas that I broke down, we're at almost 100% enforcement.
[1:04:08] Which means the officers are either investigating something and they're closing the
[1:04:12] case with an arrest or a charge, or it's on view and they're taking action.
[1:04:17] I think that's very positive, and that shows headway because there is a completion
[1:04:21] to it. It's not open-ended. It's not a complaint where someone has called, and it
[1:04:25] is unfinished in the eyes of the justice system.
[1:04:29] Another indicator, if you will, that I would look at, would be the fact that we've
[1:04:34] recently engaged in the relationship that I spoke of with a private property owner
[1:04:38] that was having issues and problems on their property.
[1:04:42] They engaged us, and they agreed to enter into that relationship with us where they
[1:04:46] would support prosecution, and they would send a member of their organization to
[1:04:51] court to serve as a witness. And that opened up the door to enforce more on that
[1:04:55] property and to hopefully address those issues.
[1:04:57] I think gaining that public trust and cooperation also is an indicator of headway.
[1:05:02] And I'd like to also state that including York City and Springsbury in those other
[1:05:06] models really is for comparison purposes.
[1:05:09] But within the concept of intelligence-based policing, there really isn't a need
[1:05:13] for us to reinvent the wheel. I think we have to tailor the wheel for our road in
[1:05:18] our borough. I think that's the goal.
[1:05:20] Thank you for that.
[1:05:23] Thank you.
[1:05:24] Yes, ma'am.
[1:05:28] Mr. Rolland.
[1:05:29] May I?
[1:05:30] Please.
[1:05:32] I would
[1:05:35] like to compliment
[1:05:38] Chief Bunte on their efforts,
[1:05:43] and their success in the past six months, in 2026, since you've
[1:05:49] taken over.
[1:05:52] I know there's been some
[1:05:54] influx of
[1:05:59] new people and new variables in the equation that we didn't have
[1:06:05] last year.
[1:06:07] But I personally can see, and I report this from our
[1:06:13] tenants also, that a dramatically improved police
[1:06:19] presence
[1:06:22] has stemmed some of the problem with the increased
[1:06:28] undesirable people and improved the overall
[1:06:34] environment. So I thank you for that, and I certainly don't envy
[1:06:40] your job at all. It's brutal, but you and your
[1:06:45] organization have made, I think, some dramatic improvements.
[1:06:50] And I'd just like to leave, from my wife and I,
[1:06:55] our thanks to you for all your efforts and your success.
[1:07:00] I appreciate that, Councilor.
[1:07:02] Scott, are you having an improvement, where you discussed with me, are you finding
[1:07:07] an improvement with your rental properties?
[1:07:12] Well, candidly,
[1:07:14] as of the end of August, we sold our final residential
[1:07:20] rental property. So I have a biased opinion.
[1:07:25] I'm
[1:07:27] no longer in the residential aspect of it.
[1:07:29] We still have the commercial properties and-
[1:07:33] Yeah. I was talking about the commercial property across from Royal Farms.
[1:07:38] Mm-hmm.
[1:07:39] And you were having problems. Do you see that that has improved?
[1:07:43] Yes.
[1:07:43] Okay. Thank you.
[1:07:44] And the police engagement there has improved dramatically.
[1:07:48] Great.
[1:07:49] And
[1:07:51] again, I've said this a million times, but I don't believe you can
[1:07:56] change these people's behavior.
[1:08:00] The best you can hope for is you move it, and they move somewhere else.
[1:08:05] And I'm certainly good with that. They move away from Hanover.
[1:08:10] I look at it in a very parochial sense.
[1:08:13] Thank you.
[1:08:15] You're welcome.
[1:08:15] Any other questions, comments?
[1:08:17] I just want to ask if there's anything that you would need, any sort of...
[1:08:22] You said
[1:08:23] that it helped a lot when the business owner or the property owner made a complaint
[1:08:29] and got engaged and actually wanted to prosecute.
[1:08:33] So do we need more of that from the community sense?
[1:08:38] Should the community get more engaged?
[1:08:41] Would that help, or would it get in the way, or?
[1:08:45] I think the willingness of a community member to support prosecution is huge, and
[1:08:49] I'd like to see that from all of our business owners, all of our property owners,
[1:08:53] everybody that
[1:08:55] we, as a police department, would deal with either as a property owner or victim.
[1:08:59] I realize there are some dynamics involved sometimes, Councilor, where they may not
[1:09:03] want to respond, they may not want to be involved, they may not want to prosecute.
[1:09:07] And that's totally their right. But it is very important that that happens in this
[1:09:12] situation, and it did, and I think that's positive.
[1:09:14] I think the biggest thing that I'm grateful for right now, in going back to
[1:09:18] Councilor Rolland and his compliment, is one, the efforts of the men and women of
[1:09:22] the police department. Bottom line, they're doing everything they can to be
[1:09:26] proactive with limited numbers and staffing.
[1:09:28] And two, the support that I've received from day one from both the appointed
[1:09:34] officials on the administrative side of the borough and the elected officials and
[1:09:37] council. So I think right now we have a pretty good secret recipe to this,
[1:09:43] and I think we just have to continue to move forward and try to tweak it as best we
[1:09:47] can for the borough's needs.
[1:09:49] All right.
[1:09:49] So thank you.
[1:09:52] We certainly appreciate your efforts, so thank you very, very much.
[1:09:54] Thank you, ma'am.
[1:09:55] And you'll send us each a copy of the PowerPoint.
[1:09:57] Yes, ma'am.
[1:09:57] Thank you very much.
[1:09:58] Thank you.
[1:09:58] Okay. I have one final announcement.
[1:10:01] Please plan to exit the building within 15 minutes following adjournment so the
[1:10:04] staff may secure the building and depart for the evening.
[1:10:07] And I need a motion for adjournment.
[1:10:08] So motion.
[1:10:09] Second.
[1:10:10] Second. All right. Third. All in favor indicate by saying I. I.
[1:10:13] I.
[1:10:13] We're adjourned. Thank you. At 8:20.