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[2:31] - Okay? Yep. Okay.
[2:34] I'll call the order the September 21st,
[2:37] Paris Council Planning Commission meeting to order.
[2:42] And the first item we have on the agenda,
[2:46] am I okay without a mic in front of me?
[2:48] Is that okay?
[2:49] - I can, - You're hearing Okay. I just noticed that. Okay.
[2:55] First thing on the agenda is approval of the minutes
[2:59] from July 20th.
[3:02] Anybody care to make a motion to approve those minutes?
[3:05] I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. Okay.
[3:08] Alright. All right, Maggie
[3:10] and Jeff, well, you've been asked, so.
[3:13] Alright. All in favor of approving of the July 20th minutes.
[3:16] Say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay.
[3:20] That motion carries.
[3:23] Next item on the agenda is time for Public Comment
[3:25] for anything that is not on the agenda.
[3:28] So do we have anything from the public to bring up tonight?
[3:33] Roy, come on up.
[3:37] - Hi, I'm Dr. Roy Love.
[3:40] I live at 4 0 4 West Main Street
[3:43] and I just wanted to Public Comment about
[3:48] the development across the street
[3:49] that just got, is being built.
[3:52] You know, the first house is being put in there,
[3:54] seven houses, 1.5 million to $2 million houses.
[4:00] And, you know, the intent of our planning commission
[4:05] and our, and our is to fill the,
[4:08] and not go out into the surrounding areas.
[4:14] That is what we wanna do.
[4:15] Obviously, we also talk a lot about that.
[4:18] We want to make it more affordable housing.
[4:20] We don't wanna have people coming from Lewistown
[4:23] and Lewisburg and wherever else,
[4:25] driving from Phillipsburg to be workers.
[4:28] Certainly approving a subdivision
[4:31] that you guys know is gonna take 750 loads of soil
[4:37] in order to drain correctly.
[4:41] It's not gonna be a development that is gonna appeal
[4:43] to anyone except for millionaires,
[4:45] dual income millionaires living there.
[4:48] That certainly doesn't provide any of the kind of idea
[4:52] that we want to bring in an opportunity for people
[4:57] who fit the demographic of burg.
[5:02] - Sorry, sorry, sorry. - Okay.
[5:06] And then part of the, the criteria
[5:11] for a developer as develop, as a planning committee is
[5:17] they bring in a plan.
[5:19] The plan's already done as long
[5:21] as they fill reg regulations.
[5:22] You guys have no teeth whatsoever.
[5:25] You can't do anything to sell you
[5:27] that this doesn't fit in the community
[5:30] because it's, it's according to the regulations.
[5:35] One of the statements was the builder will try
[5:39] to pro provide and protect as many trees as possible.
[5:43] Has anyone looked at the development?
[5:44] There's not a tree left.
[5:47] I pleaded with him to, to, to take one tree.
[5:50] But according to drainage
[5:54] and the like, in order to build that,
[5:56] it's 21 feet high in the back of that development
[6:01] in order to drain correctly.
[6:03] Now, to me that's a plan
[6:06] that you guys could say, that's crazy.
[6:09] You're gonna bring in 75, 750 loads
[6:14] in order to make this drain correctly in order
[6:17] to build a development in this, in this property.
[6:20] But you can't do anything as long
[6:23] as it fits the regulations.
[6:24] As long as the builder says that that's where you guys are,
[6:29] when is it ever gonna be that you say,
[6:31] wait a minute, this is Borough.
[6:33] We wanna make it.
[6:35] Yes, we want to have more housing that provides
[6:39] so people don't have to travel.
[6:41] This doesn't fit that model.
[6:43] But that's what I hear of why we do those things.
[6:47] Then let's, let's look at
[6:52] the idea that we're gonna save as many trees as possible.
[6:56] Last week they cut down a 2, 2, 200 year old trees
[6:59] that are directly on the property line.
[7:05] Seems to me a pretty good idea would be the tree commission
[7:10] as part of Harris Township communicates with the builder
[7:14] before the plan and said, what are you gonna do?
[7:17] You guys could put that teeth in.
[7:22] But, you know, and,
[7:25] and I just would like, you know, I've lived here for
[7:29] you since 99.
[7:32] I would like to have Berg remain wonderful.
[7:36] I'm really concerned. Five years from now,
[7:38] people are gonna say, BOL used to be great,
[7:42] but now there's so many cars on the road now there's
[7:46] so much traffic on the road.
[7:48] You know, development is going to be at the top
[7:51] of the street on Main Street, the bull mansion.
[7:55] When that happens, the hole
[7:58] that is gonna also put more people on the street,
[8:01] you got lots of kids on those streets.
[8:03] It's, it is now been a younger generation
[8:06] that's moving in the area.
[8:08] And I'm concerned that this beautiful place
[8:11] that everybody wants to live
[8:13] and thinks burg's the best place in the, is gonna go away.
[8:17] And I've watched it happen in the areas
[8:20] that I grew up in Lansdale,
[8:23] and I'm just concerned that that's gonna happen.
[8:25] And I really would like to see that not happen.
[8:28] And I think you guys have to get more teeth somehow
[8:32] to be able to say no to developers.
[8:35] I get the idea that we're gonna keep it in the, the,
[8:37] the zones and and protect the agricultural area.
[8:40] But I've also heard from some of you, wait a minute,
[8:43] what's Ferguson Township doing?
[8:46] Seems like there's houses popping up in all these
[8:48] agriculture areas like crazy.
[8:50] What's College Township doing?
[8:52] They're popping up in all these areas
[8:53] and we're gonna abide by that, that area
[8:55] and never put a restriction on a builder as long
[8:58] as they fill in the circle area.
[9:03] And what do we do when someone cuts down a tree
[9:05] that's 200 years old right on the property line.
[9:08] It's supposed to be only trees that were not going
[9:12] to be removed unless they were absolutely necessary.
[9:16] There's no reason that tree was cut down.
[9:18] Those two trees are cut down is
[9:20] because the owner wants to have it cut down
[9:22] so he has a better view of the pine trees behind it.
[9:26] The whole perimeter in the front, when I looked at the plan,
[9:29] had that lines that said there were going
[9:32] to be houses, there are gonna be trees.
[9:34] Do you see any trees along Main Street? None.
[9:38] And that's the, the builder's prerogative.
[9:43] I was at a a a meeting downtown when a person who goes
[9:47] to all of those meetings said,
[9:49] you guys gotta ask more from the developers
[9:53] because what's it gonna be to the developer when you say,
[9:57] Hey, you're gonna put 70 more cars on the
[10:00] street every single day.
[10:01] We're talking about traffic calming.
[10:04] We want you to contribute to that
[10:06] - For - What are they gonna say?
[10:08] Walk outta here for a $30,000 when he's paid
[10:11] $1.5 million to just build the landfill
[10:16] and pass it on to the people who are buying it.
[10:18] The houses. Of course he's gonna say, I'll do that
[10:22] now we're going to be very concerned about putting speed
[10:26] humps on the road
[10:27] because they're gonna cost 10 grand a piece.
[10:30] Ask the developer to do it.
[10:33] You're gonna put 70 more cars on the road, contribute
[10:37] to the possibility of meeting speed control.
[10:42] So that's all I wanted to talk about. It's very close to me.
[10:45] It's right across the street and you can say it's right in
[10:47] my backyard, but it doesn't make a difference.
[10:50] I care about Berg and,
[10:54] and if we, if we don't do more, you have guys,
[10:57] you guys have no teeth at stopping a developer doing
[11:00] whatever the hell he wants and you know it
[11:03] as long as they fit the regulations.
[11:05] And I think there should be more of that. Thanks.
[11:09] - Thanks Roy. - Roy
[11:12] and I have had a brief exchange about this subject, but,
[11:16] and that's certainly a lot for us to, you know, think about.
[11:19] But anybody have any comments they wanna make for tonight
[11:24] or just something we need to keep in mind?
[11:33] All right, well thanks. Alright.
[11:37] Alright, we'll move on
[11:38] to the planning commission business then.
[11:41] First item on the agenda is the data
[11:44] center draft. Were there
[11:45] - Any other, - I'm sorry, were there
[11:47] - Any other comments - From Oh, I'm sorry.
[11:50] I guess I did not drink.
[11:51] Yeah, there any other, any other public, public comments
[11:54] that are anything not on the agenda? I'm here
[11:56] - For four A.
[11:57] - Okay. All right. Sorry. Thanks.
[12:02] Yep, I definitely spaced that out after that
[12:05] but, okay.
[12:08] Well we're here for up for four a then
[12:11] data center draft Ordinance.
[12:13] - At the last meeting, the planning commission discussed the
[12:15] parameters that seemed appropriate for
[12:17] - The data center Ordinance in Harris Township.
[12:20] Using that information as well
[12:21] as additional ideas learned at a webinar
[12:23] that I attended in late July plus a few things from
[12:26] additional research staff created a draft of an Ordinance
[12:29] for discussion and consideration.
[12:31] The draft was included with the agenda.
[12:33] Staff also forwarded via email the slides
[12:36] provided at the July webinar in case PC members were
[12:39] interested in reviewing the information.
[12:40] Not asking that you talk about
[12:42] that in any kind of detail tonight.
[12:43] It was just for information staff's takeaway from the
[12:47] webinar was that Penn State
[12:49] or the people giving the webinar from Penn State believed
[12:52] most of the data centers that will be built have in
[12:55] fact already been built.
[12:57] That isn't to say the data centers won't be proposed in our
[12:59] area, but the demand seems to have peaked in the northeast
[13:02] and the hub of the data centers serving the Mid-Atlantic,
[13:04] the large, mid, Mid-Atlantic region.
[13:06] And those currently under construction are performing
[13:09] to expectations.
[13:11] I added some more language about some mitigating factors
[13:13] with some specifics on
[13:18] Large language and small language models
[13:20] that I gleaned from the research that's not really relevant
[13:23] to the conversation tonight.
[13:24] So I'll skip over that here.
[13:26] Many, many people believe that some that a hybrid
[13:31] of those two different types of
[13:35] AI are the future.
[13:36] But again, you can read on that in your own if you'd like.
[13:39] Staff's recommendation for tonight is
[13:41] that the draft ordinances a discussion item.
[13:43] If the PC believes some amendments are necessary,
[13:45] staff can complete such
[13:47] and present a revised draft at a future meeting.
[13:49] If the PC believes very minor
[13:51] or no amendments are required, a motion can be made
[13:53] to forward the draft of the board of Supervisors
[13:55] for consideration soon.
[13:56] The draft is this green attachment to your agenda.
[14:02] - Okay, thanks Rob.
[14:04] I know last time you talked about this, I know that
[14:07] we had discussed noise and,
[14:09] - And also just the overall water impacts,
[14:13] but is there anything anybody wants
[14:15] to bring up tonight about the specific
[14:17] regulations that are suggested here?
[14:21] - Can we ask that? - Yeah, go ahead Bob. We ask
[14:26] - That they use recycling water.
[14:28] - That the, the water usage is, is based on recycling.
[14:34] - We can probably include that as a
[14:35] - Recommendation.
[14:36] I don't know that we can require it.
[14:40] It may be a, a fact that they can't get enough water
[14:44] through the beneficial reuse that they need on a daily basis
[14:47] to accommodate what they, you know, what
[14:51] - They are gonna require.
[14:52] Yeah. I guess from what I've heard is that they have,
[14:54] they have ways of recycling.
[14:57] So if they need a hundred thousand gallons
[14:59] or whatever it is of water per day,
[15:01] but they have the CAPA there, there's technology out there
[15:04] that will allow them to recycle that water.
[15:06] So it's just like your car radiator and you pump it in there
[15:08] and it just cools it that way.
[15:11] I don't know if that's in there,
[15:12] but I, I would think that
[15:14] that would be one thing to look at.
[15:16] And the other thing is that to require them
[15:17] to use their own electricity, you know, power it themselves.
[15:22] And we, I think that,
[15:26] - Yeah, well from the seminars
[15:30] that we took at the Central County's Planning Commission,
[15:34] a large scale data center burns as much electricity
[15:37] as the whole town does.
[15:39] So we don't have to worry about them actually hooking up
[15:42] to our grid because they can't, they would have
[15:45] to build their own power plant
[15:48] because we just don't have the
[15:49] infrastructure for that to happen.
[15:52] And so that kind of, they would have to run generators
[15:56] all the time and the nor Ordinance would handle that.
[15:59] And so it would have to be a rather rather large piece
[16:02] of property as far as the water goes.
[16:06] We also don't, we think we have enough water,
[16:09] but we don't have the infrastructure for the water.
[16:11] So then it would have to be one of the type systems
[16:15] that they call closed loop
[16:16] and a reuse the water, send it down walls or cool it.
[16:21] But the problem with that system is that
[16:24] it's not completely closed loose ball the time.
[16:27] They flush it a couple times a year and what they,
[16:31] and then it goes into our sewage system are we have 'em hook
[16:34] up to our sewer system
[16:36] and from our research it has 13 forever chemicals in it
[16:40] that would go into our sewer system
[16:42] that would go into the streams.
[16:44] So that's really not a great answer to that either.
[16:47] 'cause they run it like antifreeze because
[16:49] otherwise the system corrodes.
[16:53] So I don't know how you would legislate that to make them,
[16:58] if when they flushed the closed loop system that they had
[17:01] to take it to a, a proper place where it could be disposed
[17:05] of like hazardous waste that could,
[17:07] we could put into our thing.
[17:10] - Can they, they can't forward the plastics. I
[17:13] - It's worse than that.
[17:14] It's like antifreeze. Yeah.
[17:17] So far as I know the sewer authority came
[17:20] and they're struggling right now in our sewer system.
[17:23] They've almost got accomplished to get rid
[17:26] of one forever chemical.
[17:29] Hmm. In the sewer system that we have now,
[17:31] they're working on it,
[17:32] but who knows how far along that they'll,
[17:35] it'll take some time and some money to be able to clean up
[17:38] what they get rid of.
[17:40] - So we don't have anything I'm sorry. No, go ahead.
[17:43] We don't have anything currently in this,
[17:46] in this proposed regulation
[17:49] - On that subject.
[17:50] I, about what I've, yeah, I think that if they come to us
[17:54] with a, and I call it a closed loop system,
[17:57] I don't think it should be discharged into,
[17:59] we have it saying that they're going
[18:01] to discharge it into our sewer system.
[18:02] Right. I don't think a closed loop system when they go
[18:05] to flush it, I think it should be taken away
[18:08] and taken to a, a proper facility to get rid of it.
[18:12] Just like we have high contaminants at the landfill
[18:15] we get rid of, we take it to a place where it can be clean.
[18:19] Not our sewer system that dumps down into Spring Creek.
[18:26] So I don't know, I just don't see one happening personally.
[18:30] I think there's a lot of roadblocks
[18:31] but I guess these guys have unfathomable amounts of money.
[18:35] But I, it just seems like there's a lot
[18:39] of physical roadblocks to put a big data center here,
[18:43] but it doesn't, doesn't hurt to put that in our Ordinance.
[18:47] I do on the closed loop systems from
[18:50] what I learned from those seminars, no matter what I didn't,
[18:54] you couldn't get a good answer on water usage.
[18:57] You just, there was nothing that you liked
[19:00] when you took the, I dunno if you took the same seminar,
[19:03] but it was just like, I don't like any of the answers.
[19:06] You know, I just didn't, you know,
[19:09] the electricity didn't bother me
[19:11] because they can build a generator plant
[19:13] and they can't soundproof it through technology
[19:15] so it wouldn't be bad to listen to.
[19:17] But the water issue's a problem
[19:20] and it takes a lot of water to cool.
[19:22] So unless they come up with some other cooling method.
[19:26] - So I don't know how much the, you know,
[19:29] we aren't fully aware
[19:30] what the Susquehanna River Basin Commission
[19:35] regulates or is looking at.
[19:36] I don't know if they have some of this when they're,
[19:39] if they're getting, you know, we're saying they have
[19:41] to get an approval from them.
[19:43] So I don't know how much they're gonna look at that.
[19:45] If they're gonna look at some of these same
[19:46] questions or they don't
[19:47] - Wanna look at water withdrawal is,
[19:49] I don't know if they would look at discharge as much
[19:51] as they would withdrawal, but I wonder if there wouldn't be
[19:55] language out there from municipalities that have fracking
[19:59] That sounds very similar to fracking
[20:01] type water being withdrawn and having to be transported away
[20:04] because it's, it needs
[20:05] to be basically reclaimed somewhere that can handle that
[20:07] - Well.
[20:08] Yeah. A system that can Right.
[20:10] Clean it properly or dispose of it properly.
[20:12] A ation system that we don't have. Right.
[20:16] - And Kent, just so you're aware,
[20:17] Kelly wool gas does have your hand up on Zoom.
[20:20] Okay. Didn't want you to miss it. Alright,
[20:22] - Well Kelly, are you - Ready to say something?
[20:25] - I am, thank you. I'm sorry I'm not there in person.
[20:28] I have a respiratory infection
[20:30] that I did not want to give to all of you.
[20:33] Yeah, right. So thank you for the initial draft
[20:37] of this data center plan here or the regulation.
[20:41] I definitely think that we should have this on,
[20:44] on file going forward.
[20:46] What I think the major thing that's missing, as most
[20:50] of you know, I am a professional registered nurse,
[20:55] population health is part of my expertise.
[20:58] What is missing from this is any mention about a,
[21:01] a required third party environmental health
[21:03] and safety evaluation that comes in
[21:06] with any proposal while it does address noise,
[21:10] noise is just one component of an environmental health
[21:13] and safety assessment.
[21:14] And I think we should require that as part
[21:16] of our regulation.
[21:19] And, and you could find the assessment
[21:21] that I can send whoever needs that information about
[21:24] what parts that would be.
[21:25] I can, I'm happy to send that to you
[21:28] electronically if you need me to.
[21:30] The other thing that I noticed in here under
[21:33] the noise part is the testing
[21:35] of emergency generators shall occur only between the hours
[21:38] of 8:00 AM and 6:00 PM And I recommend
[21:41] that being narrowed even further that that is only
[21:45] not weekends and not on holidays
[21:48] because I sure would not want to be listening to
[21:51] emergency generator testing on a Sunday.
[21:54] 'cause that's, you know, that would disrupt, disrupt the,
[21:57] the peaceful verb that we call burg.
[22:01] So thank you and I'm happy to answer any questions about
[22:04] what I just said or provide additional information
[22:08] to whomever is drafting this.
[22:13] - Okay. So I guess could we,
[22:19] could Deb summarize some of these comments we're making and
[22:22] or Todd and,
[22:25] and take that forward to the Supervisors then? Yeah, I
[22:28] - Think, I think what we'll do is we'll do a little bit more
[22:31] research into these specific topics
[22:35] and see if I can find regulations
[22:37] and other municipalities that address those things
[22:41] and see if generally those are things
[22:43] that are included in ordinances.
[22:45] Okay. I have to say I haven't seen any in the, in the ones
[22:48] that I've looked at, but I haven't looked
[22:50] at a million of them.
[22:52] So, so I'll do some research and, and,
[22:54] and see what, see what's out there
[22:56] and certainly present your ideas to the board if you,
[23:00] if you forward it to the board tonight with that direction.
[23:02] - Okay. I think these are all good
[23:05] points that have been made tonight.
[23:06] I will just add that I,
[23:08] I too am concerned about the noise issue,
[23:11] particularly in the evening and weekend hours.
[23:14] And I don't know if we could even regulate it more strongly
[23:19] than the 55 decibels for, you know, off hours
[23:26] because that's, you know,
[23:28] at night when things are quieting down,
[23:30] that's when you start noticing humming going on.
[23:34] And even though they can insulate a generator house,
[23:38] if it's, if it's really making a lot of noise it can,
[23:41] it can carry some distance. So
[23:44] - If you remember the first or last month we talked about
[23:47] that 70 was the limit
[23:49] and oh was it, I did some more research
[23:51] and they, the recommendation seems to be
[23:54] - 55.
[23:55] Okay. Yeah. Okay. That sounds better then. Yeah. Alright.
[23:59] Alright, go ahead.
[24:01] - And just on the landscaping, just to kind of follow
[24:04] what Roy was talking about, you know, we have the buffer
[24:08] of a hundred feet and you know, mechanical
[24:12] and electrical equipment shall be screened from view,
[24:15] but can we make that stronger?
[24:18] Because you know, like he said, it's not
[24:22] all the trees went down and in that neighborhood
[24:26] and we want to, we do wanna keep burg beautiful.
[24:31] You know, and this doesn't sound beautiful
[24:34] - For, - For the most part these would be in commercial
[24:36] and industrial areas
[24:38] where there probably aren't large forested areas anyhow,
[24:41] they're probably gonna have to plant whatever it is.
[24:43] Right? Yeah. Right there, there are certain warranty periods
[24:48] and permanent replacement periods in our regulations
[24:51] for landscaping and screening.
[24:53] Now we can look at those
[24:54] and see if we can make them stronger for this
[24:56] or it's even legal to make it stronger
[24:58] for one use more than the others.
[25:00] - Okay. Oh okay, I see. Yeah, yeah.
[25:02] - Alright. Yeah. And then, yeah with,
[25:04] and this would require a land development plan, right?
[25:06] Sure. So, and we do have, you know,
[25:10] I mean we have regulations for both residential
[25:12] and commercial industrial properties,
[25:15] but for commercial, industrial
[25:16] and multifamily we have land development plans which
[25:20] require, have landscaping plans which are enforceable.
[25:23] And that's something we don't have
[25:27] for just a simple residential subdivision is we don't
[25:30] regulate people cutting down trees.
[25:33] Right. And so,
[25:35] but we, I think we can have some stronger regulations with
[25:40] that on land developments.
[25:42] So, so hopefully that'll help and hopefully Yeah.
[25:46] And I guess hopefully these people would decide to go to,
[25:51] you know, college Township and places like that.
[25:53] Yes. And 'cause you know, we, I mean I think
[25:57] with our rural preservation Ordinance, I think it is,
[26:00] you know, probably more suitable for them
[26:06] to go somewhere else in my mind anyway,
[26:10] - Given the limited amount of land area that we have.
[26:13] Not to say that it couldn't be developed.
[26:15] I would imagine there's other places elsewhere in the
[26:17] county that would be more suitable.
[26:19] I won't pick a Township like you did, but
[26:24] - Story, well just not on camera, just the
[26:28] - Electric grid alone.
[26:29] - No, I mean, I mean obviously there's,
[26:30] there's been discussions about all kinds
[26:31] of things in the Dale Summit area for both, you know,
[26:35] from stuff like this to workforce housing, which yes.
[26:40] Those are things where it is harder in Harris to,
[26:42] to do some of those things.
[26:45] - Did we ever actually finish moving the landscaping
[26:48] requirements from Zoning to salt up?
[26:52] - I think they're actually in zone or are they in salt?
[26:55] Well I don't, my recollection I wouldn't,
[26:58] I wouldn't bet any amount
[26:59] of money in my recollection anymore.
[27:01] But my recollection is what we wanted to keep them out
[27:05] of SDO so that they couldn't be waived
[27:07] - And put.
[27:08] Okay. I remember we had a couple discussions about it.
[27:10] - Yeah, they did get a,
[27:12] those amendments were adopted last year as part
[27:15] of the quarter overlay.
[27:16] When those regulations were removed, you had other
[27:19] landscaping regulations that were in Zoning that,
[27:22] as Todd said, they can't be waived.
[27:24] They're gonna be required as part
[27:25] of any land development, they have to be followed.
[27:27] - Okay. Yeah. Okay.
[27:32] Any other comments? I'm good. Alright.
[27:36] - I guess, well you're gonna be taking this subject.
[27:38] Oh yeah, Alex, oh, I'm sorry. Yeah,
[27:44] - If you can say your name for the
[27:45] record. Absolutely. I'm Michael Hetrick.
[27:47] - I live over in the gates. I have not had an opportunity
[27:51] to see the proposed Ordinance,
[27:53] but my concern was I did spend some time looking
[27:58] through all the other ordinances of the Township
[28:00] and there's minimal noise regulation in the Township.
[28:04] There's some, there's something in the ag about
[28:06] entertainment and concerts or entertainment
[28:09] after 1130 at night, but there's not a whole lot.
[28:12] And my concern was that there would be
[28:15] strong regulation of noise in, in this proposed Ordinance.
[28:21] You've been discussing it, it sounds like there is,
[28:23] I think also Kelly mentioned noise as well.
[28:25] I, I mean obviously it's addressed at some level,
[28:28] but I think it's really important
[28:30] because as, as you all obviously know,
[28:34] this is a 24 7 buzz.
[28:37] These, these facilities don't shut down
[28:40] and it's, it's a real concern, especially
[28:45] if one would be located anywhere near any residential area.
[28:50] And they're, a lot of, one
[28:54] of the mentions in the Penn State is they think the
[28:56] northeast is fulfilled.
[28:58] There are a lot of residential areas
[29:00] that are really regretting that they've been filled
[29:03] because of the noise.
[29:04] And I just think it's a really,
[29:06] a really important factor to consider.
[29:08] And I Thank you.
[29:10] - Appreciate - That. A comment.
[29:12] - Yeah. We don't want the, yeah, we thank you.
[29:16] So we don't want the data set there to, you know,
[29:20] overpower the new highway
[29:25] 65 decibels, 55 decibels.
[29:27] You're not gonna be able to hear from where our industrial
[29:31] and commercial zones are.
[29:33] You're not gonna be able to hear it
[29:34] 'cause the highway's gonna be louder than that.
[29:36] The Jake breaks don't want to hear
[29:40] - That.
[29:42] Yeah. Who would wanna live next to the road?
[29:47] Yeah. Like 45 1 to do that. Well thanks everyone.
[29:51] I think we covered do that then.
[29:54] So, so you're gonna try to summarize that
[29:57] and I guess it'll go to Supervisors next.
[29:59] Okay. For further comments Early meeting. Alright.
[30:03] And okay so next,
[30:08] next item on the agenda is the open house
[30:12] for proposed village Zoning amendments.
[30:15] So over the last two years,
[30:17] - Planning commission had worked on doing a comprehensive
[30:20] analysis of the land use patterns in the village.
[30:23] And by village I mean the entirety of burg,
[30:25] not the Zoning district as well as some
[30:28] of the surrounding neighborhoods.
[30:29] And as a result, you came up with some
[30:33] recommendations to amend the existing regulations as well
[30:37] as creating a new Zoning district village
[30:39] residential for portions of the village.
[30:41] You did talk about those recommendations with the board
[30:44] back in 2025 as well as earlier this year.
[30:47] And they asked the commission to go out
[30:49] and hold open houses to get feedback from the public
[30:51] before bringing draft ordinances for their consideration.
[30:55] So the idea would be get some Public Comment
[30:58] if there are any changes that you wish to make
[31:00] before taking it to the board, you could do that
[31:03] and then bring those amendments forward.
[31:06] So what I did is worked on getting some materials prepared
[31:10] for open houses that you can present this to the public.
[31:14] And the idea would be hopefully that
[31:17] the commissioning could be present at these open houses,
[31:20] be part of kind of describing your thoughts to the public
[31:23] as they attend.
[31:26] My thought was probably having two open houses,
[31:29] one in the daytime and one during the evening.
[31:30] That way folks with different schedules could attend.
[31:34] And in the past, whenever we've done this, we have
[31:36] as staff met with property owners
[31:38] that couldn't make either one.
[31:39] If someone's outta town or what have you,
[31:41] we would be able to meet with them.
[31:42] So I was gonna share the materials real quick here.
[31:46] Let me just share the screen so
[31:48] that folks online can see this as well.
[31:54] And then this will give you an idea of, of
[31:56] what this would look like going to the, to the public.
[31:59] So there's a a series of seven posters
[32:04] and what we would do is have these printed off mounted on
[32:06] boards and probably set up in this room for, you know,
[32:10] people to go around and more
[32:11] or less follows the story
[32:12] of the process that you went through.
[32:14] So the first one talks about the analysis, some
[32:18] of the background that there was a small area plan done
[32:20] back in 2015.
[32:23] Ad hoc parking committee that was assembled in,
[32:27] they met back in I think 2021 and 2022.
[32:31] And then some of the goals of the project.
[32:34] The next poster board would talk about the
[32:37] study area itself.
[32:38] So this shows the area that you initially started with.
[32:41] If you remember you had looked a little bit
[32:43] beyond the boundaries of the historic district
[32:46] to take a look at some of the adjacent parcels
[32:48] to see if there was similarities,
[32:50] if they should be included in the study.
[32:52] And third one talks a little bit about some
[32:57] of the analysis itself, some of the key findings of
[33:02] what were discovered through this process.
[33:06] And I tried to use as many
[33:07] of these maps from the analysis as possible.
[33:11] And then the, the next one talks a little bit about
[33:14] you were review process.
[33:15] So looking at the permitted uses dimensional standards,
[33:19] parking regulations, the impact that this would have
[33:23] in the Township and then proposed changes
[33:26] and how it would reduce nonconformities.
[33:29] So these are all really exciting topics that we'll just
[33:33] engage people I hope.
[33:34] Right. But I think it,
[33:37] - Make sure you go into parking regulations right away,
[33:39] like on its whole slide. Maybe
[33:41] - You want an entire thing just about parking.
[33:43] - Oh yeah. We'll - I wasn't gonna do that. We'll put
[33:45] - Em to sleep right away.
[33:47] - The hope here would be that as folks
[33:49] attend these open houses though, they would see
[33:51] that you were methodical about this.
[33:53] It wasn't just haphazardly saying
[33:55] we're gonna just make changes.
[33:57] It was based upon an actual study, an actual
[34:00] on the ground conditions,
[34:02] which I think is important. Took us
[34:04] - Five years.
[34:05] - Ah, it wasn't quite that long. It wasn't quite that.
[34:08] So then recommendations, there's, there's two
[34:12] or actually three posters that talk about
[34:14] what your recommendations are.
[34:15] The first one is just kind of an overview.
[34:19] Basically two districts, one existing kind of village,
[34:23] core district and then Village Residential talks a little
[34:25] bit about the expected outcomes
[34:27] of having the two separate districts
[34:29] and then a poster for each district.
[34:31] I think that's important for property owners in either
[34:34] of these proposed districts.
[34:36] They can kind of focus on the one
[34:37] that's gonna impact them the most.
[34:39] This is where we get into parking Phil.
[34:41] So there's parking on here.
[34:42] An entire bottom section is all about parking regulations.
[34:45] But you know, it goes into the details about each
[34:48] of the different Zoning districts themselves.
[34:50] This one's the village
[34:52] and then this one here would be Village Residential.
[34:56] So that was what I put together with the help
[35:00] of center regional planning agencies, GIS specialist.
[35:05] The questions I would have for you is,
[35:07] does this look like an acceptable sort of, I guess, flow to
[35:11] what you would hope to, to present to the public?
[35:14] We would certainly have some type of feedback form available
[35:17] for anybody who attends.
[35:18] That way they can tell us what they think.
[35:21] And then my hope was that you could maybe
[35:25] identify some dates when these open houses could take place.
[35:29] So my thought, if you don't look at item C, which I realized
[35:32] after the fact, I'm like, oh,
[35:33] item C in the agenda says the agenda for September.
[35:35] We don't want to have to relive this meeting.
[35:37] My thought was actually the,
[35:39] that maybe you would cancel your October meeting
[35:41] and hold these open houses in place of that meeting.
[35:45] And then, and matter of fact, you could do that night,
[35:48] you know, the evening of the, of the October,
[35:50] although I think I'm out of town, so maybe
[35:51] that's a bad time, but, but we can figure out dates
[35:54] that would work and then probably in November have
[35:58] that be part of the agenda is to discuss what you heard and,
[36:03] and if if staff were to happen to meet with anybody
[36:05] that couldn't make it as well, we
[36:06] could bring you that feedback.
[36:07] So I don't know, gimme your thoughts
[36:10] and then if we can maybe look at a calendar
[36:11] and figure out dates, that would be great. So how
[36:15] - Many total pluss do - You have? Seven.
[36:17] - Seven? Yes. Alright.
[36:18] And you think you can get 'em to fit around here then?
[36:21] - Yeah, I think we should be able
[36:22] to get them to fit around here.
[36:23] They're not as big as ones we've used in the past.
[36:25] They're not the massive epl. Right.
[36:27] So I think they'll be a little smaller.
[36:29] Probably fit a few here on the table
[36:30] and then we'll move chairs out
[36:32] of the way just so folks can walk around.
[36:35] - And I do think the important thing is it does,
[36:37] this does show that we're looking at this comprehensively
[36:40] and even though it did kind of start off as a parking issue,
[36:43] that is kind of a, a back, you know, kind
[36:47] of a back burner part of it.
[36:48] Now it's the only thing we're doing is, is fixing some
[36:53] of our existing park,
[36:54] or I should say fixing, I should say revising some
[36:57] of the parking regulations to make the, the core part
[37:01] of the village, you know, a little more developable
[37:04] to attract, you know, some businesses are allowing them
[37:08] to expand knowing that and so that they park.
[37:13] We don't have a parking problem,
[37:14] we had an Ordinance problem.
[37:16] So we have enough parking to provide, recognizing
[37:20] that we still have to have some regulations
[37:23] for expanded uses.
[37:24] But we're not, we're trying
[37:25] to lessen some of those regulations.
[37:27] And also of course we're trying to protect the, you know,
[37:30] the residential area, nature of, of the village itself.
[37:35] And you know, as was brought up earlier tonight, we want
[37:39] to keep burg as burg.
[37:41] And so that, I think this will help do that.
[37:44] And so I I think it's great. Okay.
[37:48] I'm looking forward to it. And,
[37:50] - And I can send these out to the commission in advance
[37:52] that way if you wanna Yeah,
[37:53] I I would if you wanna familiarize yourself, I'm
[37:55] - Wondering if you, if you also maybe could have it
[37:57] on the website for, for the public to get
[38:00] to if they wanted to look at it. Yeah,
[38:02] - We could definitely do that. Yeah. Yeah.
[38:04] - So yeah, I'd like to,
[38:08] you know, come in prepared.
[38:09] So, 'cause people start asking you all kinds of questions.
[38:13] - Right. - And so
[38:20] I think, so the, the October meeting
[38:23] would be the 19th, is that correct? It
[38:26] - Would've been the 19th now I'm out of town
[38:29] the first part of that week.
[38:31] - Oh, so you're not here the 19th?
[38:33] - I'm not here the 19th. And I
[38:34] - See why you wanted the 19th.
[38:36] - Well, no, I actually suggested you don't do it.
[38:37] That after I realized it, I said wait a minute, I'm not,
[38:40] I'm not here that, that day.
[38:41] So No, I was gonna suggest maybe the following week
[38:48] that way, that way it gives us time
[38:49] to get notice out to residents too.
[38:51] I wanna make sure folks are aware, we wanna send letters
[38:53] to people who are actually in the study area
[38:56] or at least the area that would be
[38:57] rezoned if this were to go forward.
[39:00] So I would say probably later in the month would be better
[39:02] just to make sure we can get that notice out.
[39:05] - So are you still thinking of Monday though?
[39:08] - Well, if we do that Monday the 26th,
[39:11] I have a meeting at COG that night at seven.
[39:14] It's the general forum meeting.
[39:15] So we could do the daytime meeting on the 26th
[39:18] and do the evening meeting later that week if you wanted.
[39:23] And I don't know that every planning commission member has
[39:26] to attend both meetings,
[39:27] but it would be nice to have a few of you there to walk
[39:30] around and engage with residents as they attend.
[39:34] - So, well let's just say if we're talking like the 26th,
[39:38] 27th and 28th
[39:43] - Evening of the 20,
[39:44] - Definitely wanna stay away from Friday.
[39:46] - Yeah. Evening of the 28th would not work either.
[39:48] There's a board budget meeting
[39:50] that night. So this room will be,
[39:52] - Maybe you pick the date.
[39:54] - Well, I can maybe. - What about daytime on the 26th?
[39:57] How about, how about later evening on the 20?
[39:58] How about the later part of like the
[40:00] 22nd or somewhere in there
[40:02] - Of the - October. October 22nd.
[40:06] - October 22nd. There's also, - When are you getting back?
[40:08] - There's also a budget meeting that night as well.
[40:10] - Yeah, February then
[40:11] - It's looking better.
[40:13] I was, I I think the earliest
[40:15] that would work would be the week of the 26th.
[40:17] That's probably the earliest that the room would be
[40:19] available and I would be available
[40:22] - The 27th then - I I the 27th would be fine if you wanted
[40:26] to do the evening of the 27th, we could do that.
[40:28] - Sure. And then what, what would be a good daytime 28th
[40:34] Or, or you said there was budget that day? The 26th.
[40:36] - The 26th or the 28th would be fine in the daytime.
[40:39] That would be fine. I figure we can do like an a
[40:41] noon if that works.
[40:45] - Everybody okay. With a
[40:48] - 27th at night, you know, what time during
[40:52] when your time's gonna be?
[40:54] - I figured probably seven o'clock,
[40:56] - October 27th, - Seven o'clock.
[40:58] Yeah. And the daytime one,
[41:02] - You want to, we can do the 26th if you want at at noon.
[41:05] At noon. Does that work?
[41:09] - Or the 28th? If that's if something that comes up.
[41:13] - Sure. That works too. - 28th now
[41:17] - I'm just saying I'm just put thrown out two options.
[41:19] If I'm coming in all this planning process,
[41:21] we find another conflict. But
[41:24] - Yeah, I think the only thing that might be problematic
[41:26] for having both of them in the same week would be if a
[41:29] resident's out of town that week,
[41:30] they're pretty much not gonna be able to
[41:32] - Make it.
[41:33] Well, and again, I think if,
[41:35] if you can put it on the website
[41:36] and then maybe give them an opportunity to
[41:39] - Contact - One of us.
[41:40] - Yeah, that would work. - That's
[41:44] what I was gonna say is make sure people have ability
[41:46] to do virtual input.
[41:48] - Yep, we can do that. Thanks Kelly
[41:54] - In all.
[41:59] - All right, so - Does the evening one then we're going
[42:02] to say is on the 27th? Is that
[42:04] - That's what I have.
[42:05] 27th at 7:00 PM Okay.
[42:07] And then noon on the 26th for the the daytime one.
[42:12] - Okay. - And we'll try
[42:13] to get those notices out here in the next week
[42:16] or so. That way people are aware.
[42:18] - Okay, that sounds great.
[42:19] - You'll have something that we can look up
[42:21] before we just show up.
[42:23] - No, I will, I will definitely send all of these flyer
[42:26] or these posters out to you in advance.
[42:28] That way you can look at 'em
[42:29] and kind of familiarize yourself.
[42:31] And then as far as online goes, we'll either put the posters
[42:36] online or I might talk with the planning agency
[42:39] to see if they could do what's called a story map
[42:41] where it's just a, we did that for the rural areas
[42:44] and I think we did it for the small area plan
[42:45] where you can just go online and kind of scroll through a
[42:48] a story format and with,
[42:50] there'll already be maps preloaded into it
[42:52] and then at the end we can have a feedback section.
[42:54] That way it's all in one.
[42:56] That might be the easiest for folks. Yeah. Like that idea.
[42:59] Yeah. So I'll work on having that put together too.
[43:03] - Okay. All right. That sounds great. I
[43:06] - And you're gonna cancel October?
[43:07] That's the, that's the plan here.
[43:10] - No, October 16th. Well we'll have an open house. Yeah,
[43:13] - You'll have this - Instead.
[43:14] Yes. So, all right, that sounds good.
[43:19] I'm looking forward to it. Anything else on that?
[43:24] Okay, we'll move on to the agenda for September. It'll
[43:28] - Be November, - September
[43:30] - 'cause we're already in September. I
[43:31] - Oh, okay. I made
[43:33] - A note in my mind to change that and did not do it
[43:35] before the agenda went out.
[43:37] So in addition to whatever feedback you get,
[43:43] - Tomorrow's the first day of fall.
[43:44] I can't believe that. You
[43:46] - Know, in addition, I think
[43:47] to talking about whatever feedback you get from the village
[43:50] open houses, I would also suggest you start talking about
[43:52] your work plan for next year.
[43:54] - Okay. - Those would be the two items I would recommend
[43:56] you have on your agenda in November.
[43:59] - Well I'd sure like to get some more parking on
[44:00] - And I usually usually appoint a nominating committee I
[44:05] think in November too, don't I?
[44:07] - Your bylaws were changed.
[44:08] That's no longer part of the process.
[44:10] You're gonna follow a process more similar to
[44:12] what the board would do, which is
[44:13] to just have a nomination in an election rather than having
[44:16] a a nominating committee.
[44:19] - Oh, did we do that? We did, - Yeah. Bob and
[44:22] - I drank beer.
[44:23] I thought we kept the nominating committee, but
[44:26] - I'm pretty sure your bylaws,
[44:27] when you admitted them, you decided
[44:29] - To take that out.
[44:30] I have no reason to drink.
[44:33] - Took another reason away.
[44:36] - You are welcome to meet
[44:38] and I buy all you want for whatever reason.
[44:44] So those were the two items I have.
[44:46] I don't know Todd, if you anticipate any plans. I don't.
[44:49] No, not currently. I don't.
[44:53] - Okay. Well that gives us, that gives us a lot
[44:56] for the next two months then.
[44:59] So I'll move on to reports.
[45:02] I know Todd, you already passed around.
[45:04] Yeah, I think, yeah, you need to send them back.
[45:08] And so Centre Region Planning Commission.
[45:13] Jeff, do you have a Yeah,
[45:14] - We have a meeting.
[45:16] Hey, we discussed data centers pretty much
[45:19] as we did tonight, so there's not much more to say.
[45:22] I guess I told you what I learned.
[45:25] The A RL at the innovation park is moving forward.
[45:29] They've got proper permitting for sewer
[45:32] and water I guess to, to hooked up
[45:37] then we would, we talked a while about the proposed Zoning
[45:39] on 200 Allen Street.
[45:41] I think that's Addison Court
[45:46] as I got this, you probably know more.
[45:48] It's like, will the Borough bail us out for 15
[45:51] and a half million or we want a Zoning Ordinance
[45:54] to raise the building to 75 feet.
[45:58] Of course we agreed with the planning commission there
[46:03] that no, on the raising, they've already set their Zoning
[46:07] to be at 45 feet on that side of Beaver Avenue.
[46:10] And so they wanted a permit to read
[46:13] and you know what they would do if they got that through,
[46:17] they'd knock the building down.
[46:19] Right. And somebody would buy it
[46:21] and put up student housing at 75 feet.
[46:23] So that makes absolutely no sense.
[46:24] It's like being held hostage
[46:27] because I think the place is 30% empty
[46:31] because it's in such bad repair.
[46:33] Oh really? Yeah, I mean it just doesn't make sense.
[46:36] They gave them a tax break to have the place,
[46:38] they gave them money so that they would be low rent
[46:41] for people and then the owner did not take care
[46:44] of the building and make were major repairs to it.
[46:46] Now he wants a bail out
[46:48] or please change the Zoning to 75 feet.
[46:51] That's the way I read it.
[46:53] Maybe I got it wrong,
[46:54] but it didn't make any sense to me. So, and then
[46:58] - I guess they agreed with you.
[47:00] - We all said no.
[47:02] Yeah, and then we had a discussion,
[47:04] more discussion on the comprehensive plan and,
[47:09] and the land use map and it's moving forward.
[47:13] - Okay. All right. Thanks Jeff.
[47:17] Peggy, did you have a technical committee meeting?
[47:20] - I was not able to attend the meeting so I don't have a
[47:23] - Report.
[47:24] Okay. Alright.
[47:27] Recent action by the board of Supervisors at
[47:30] - Their August 10th meeting,
[47:31] the board approved the Rocky Ridge final
[47:33] subdivision plan and that was
[47:35] - Basically just a minor land swap
[47:37] and future dedication of East K Street to the Township.
[47:41] Anticipate the Township taking all
[47:43] of the streets in Rocky Ridge
[47:45] at a special meeting this Wednesday was on their agenda
[47:50] for the September meeting but was unable to be acted upon.
[47:52] But after Wednesday we should have all
[47:55] of the existing streets in Rocky Ridge as part
[47:57] of the Township Street network board.
[48:00] Also discussed amendments to the SDO
[48:01] and Zoning Ordinance to require the postage
[48:03] of signage when the subdivision land development
[48:06] or planned residential development plan is submitted.
[48:09] That was submitted to the, OR sent to the CRPC for review
[48:12] and will be considered
[48:14] for adoption at the October board meeting.
[48:16] And then at their meeting last week,
[48:18] the board approved the John w Tennis minor subdivision plan,
[48:20] which proposes combining two lots
[48:22] along Bowl Avenue into one parcel.
[48:24] I believe it's still up here on the board behind you.
[48:26] That was submitted probably back in August.
[48:29] So it wasn't on any of your
[48:30] previous planning commission agendas.
[48:32] And they also discussed the future land use map
[48:34] and moved that item forward to the CRPC
[48:38] - Two officer.
[48:40] - It's the, the old tennis lamp shop property
[48:42] that pink line highlighted there has always gone right
[48:46] through the middle of the property
[48:47] and the property owner wants to remove that so
[48:49] that it has one lot rather than two
[48:52] - Right through the house.
[48:55] Okay. So sure
[48:56] - The property line's good was yeah. But yeah,
[48:59] - So okay.
[49:02] I roof looks good.
[49:04] - Doesn't leak anymore. - That's great.
[49:07] So status of land development plans.
[49:09] You mentioned Rocky Ridge section six
[49:12] and this King minor subdivision
[49:15] plan that's new, is that right?
[49:17] Yeah. And
[49:22] so is that the lot was subdivided at one time
[49:24] and now I want to consolidate again. That
[49:26] - Was part of the, one of the Hawk Ridge plans.
[49:29] The two lots that have frontage on Academy Street
[49:35] are being combined into one lot now.
[49:37] They were bought by the same person.
[49:39] - Okay. Alright.
[49:42] So instead of, yeah, so cut the number of houses from two
[49:46] to one in theory
[49:48] and save the Yeah.
[49:52] And help out with some
[49:53] of the drainage maybe coming down the hill there.
[49:57] And does that, that's a minor plan so we, we won't do that.
[50:00] Yes. Okay. Okay.
[50:03] Anything else for the good of the order tonight?
[50:07] If not, I will accept a motion to Adjourn. So moved.
[50:11] Alright. Aye second. I second. Alright Peggy. Okay.
[50:15] All in favor of adjourning say aye. Aye.
[50:19] - Aye. - Thanks. All opposed? Okay, that motion carries.
[50:23] We are adjourned.
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