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All those in favor.
>> All right, let's get this party started.

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» I'd rather dig up earthworms and count
them than deal with me.

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» Maybe even eat them.
>> I'd eat them at this point. I just

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They're just It's just
>> I mean, I was hoping that our plan to

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get to the point where we don't have to

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No, they're all

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» I don't think

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» [cough]

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» John.

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» Well, he had he had

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» [clears throat]

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[clears throat]

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» It's not

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too much. How yall doing?

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» I got one more.

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Sorry.

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» Yeah. All right.

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No screen.

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» Did you have a flash drive?
>> Yeah, we did. We have to be made aware

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before get our No, that's okay.
[snorts]

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» It is usually in here though, right?

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All

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right, here come

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All right, this is our 11:30 appeal. The
appellant Kenneth Jones from GF Coast

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Development and Design LLC is appealing
the planning commission denial of case

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number 2606 HC 157 requesting a
conditional use permit to allow for a

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230 lot single family residential
subdivision on 150 acre parcel on West

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Worm Road. Abalore and tax partial
number is 0504

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34002.0000

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and 050433
uh- 001.0000

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hearing before the Harrison County
Planning Commission was the time when

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the applicant andor and object OB
objectors were given the opportunity to

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make a record in support of their
respective positions. Since the

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appellant has exercised his right to
appeal the planning commission ruling to

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the Harris County Board of Supervisors,
only the record made before the planning

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commission and order arguments will be
considered by the board of supervisors.

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Both appellent and opposition
[clears throat]

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00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:23,360
are allowed 30 minutes.
Uh the appellant uh will be allowed a

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fiveminute rebuttal. The appellant or
opposition will address [snorts] any

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board questions. then the board will
render its decision. I'm recommending

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that since both appeals are dealing with
the same property and appellant

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recommend hearing both appeals together.
And if the first appeal fails, the

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second appeal would be a move point.

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00:05:43,039 --> 00:05:48,479
» All right. If you'll be the keeper of
the clock,

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00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:52,320
» I will call the first who's going first
and how long.

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» All right, Mr. Jones. How long does Mr.
Jones have?

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00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:59,280
» 30 minutes.
>> Yes, ma'am. Um, Mr. Jones, do you agree

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to combine both the fields?
>> Yes.

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00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:13,520
» And, uh, I'll be speaking for a little
while. Um, Andy Felen will be joining me

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00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:17,039
and then we our attorney as well. So, u,
thank you all for having me here today.

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00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:21,520
I guess I don't need to say my name and
address for the record.

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00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:29,120
But um
so we're here today um not to request a

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00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:33,440
reim um but only a conditional use. So
as a matter of law and public record,

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00:06:31,039 --> 00:06:39,520
the land use of this property, it's
already been settled. Um this property

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00:06:35,919 --> 00:06:44,160
has been zoned R1 since 2007 when it was
designated for residential growth

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alongside the surrounding parcels. that
zoning remains in full legal effect,

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does not expire, does not revert.
Under the R1, the right to build single

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family residential homes on this land
has already been established and is

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allowed by right. We're not here to
litigate zoning, debate public need, or

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evaluate a change in character
neighborhood. That's [clears throat]

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00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:13,680
already been done. Property literally a
bust of land for West Wam Middle and

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Elementary School. I've heard many
discussions with the planning

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commission, the board opposition and
developers like myself over the last

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several years to this this room and
other rooms like it and I cannot recall

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a time where anyone has ever suggested
that residential housing should not go

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next to an elementary or middle school.
In fact, this is likely the most logical

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place to have a residential development
that y'all have ever heard as far as an

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appeal case. um for the conditional use
which does so the com the conditional

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use permit does revert back and pro no
progress is made in two years and that's

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the reason why we're here but for this
conditional use we must show that our

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00:07:55,520 --> 00:08:02,960
site plan conforms to the concepts in
the UDC

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and you'll see from our our presentation
that it not only meets those

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requirements exceeds [clears throat]
them in every instance

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00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:17,919
um on the next page of that presentation
that I gave to you guys. Um, on the

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zoning map, it says this parcel doesn't
sit in isolation. So, as I mentioned a

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second ago, in 2007, this property and
the contiguous tracks immediately to the

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east and west of this parcel were
approved as a master plan community of

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780 lots or 780 homes. and uh this R red
one designation that's right there

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00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:46,560
adjacent to this this that boundary. Um
so directly north to the of our site

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established single family residential
neighborhoods with hundreds of homes. So

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00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:54,880
I'm sure all of you have driven out
there and know what I'm talking about,

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00:08:51,839 --> 00:09:00,720
but Edgewood has about 165 lots.
Magnolia Heights has 180 lots. Shady

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Hills has 92 lots. And as you travel
further east back towards Highway 49,

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you have development and residential on
both sides of the streets. You have Worm

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00:09:08,959 --> 00:09:19,519
Estates, Twin Lakes, Robinwood, Woram
Heights. Again, hundreds of single

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00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:24,320
family residential lots. Um, and I've
driven out there. I'm sure there are

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00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:28,800
several places that maybe have a horse
or something like that on Westworth. I

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00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:33,760
haven't really seen them, but there's
very very few places driving on

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00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:38,240
Westworth and from Highway 49 getting to
this property that there's any

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00:09:35,279 --> 00:09:44,080
agricultural land whatsoever.
Um, also our property borders C2

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00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:50,399
Commercial. There's a Dollar General and
the top um the north west side of our

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00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:54,560
property and there's a bunch of R2
zoning that's in the general area as

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well as you guys know is medium density
residential and actually allows for

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duplexes. Um directly to the east again
I'll mention this several times is uh

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00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:07,519
the Westworth and middle and elementary
school.

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00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:12,320
Uh on the next page
is the site plan for the previously

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00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:17,360
approved 780 um lot development that was
done in 2007.

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00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:21,920
After this uh the the person who went
through the process and who owned the

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00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:25,200
land got sick um I think with cancer
ended up losing the property to the

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00:10:23,279 --> 00:10:30,640
bank. It ended up getting sold several
times and then mostly got sold in some

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00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:34,720
larger tracks to various people. Um to
date only one other subdivision has been

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approved out of this track. It's the
north uh northwest corner of this track.

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It was recently approved by this board
and by the planning commission for 24

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00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:52,640
1/2 acre lots fronting west. Um which is
actually pretty comparison to the larger

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00:10:49,279 --> 00:10:56,880
lots and part of our property. And you
can I want to point out some differences

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even between this which was approved and
our current site plan. So we have uh the

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00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:06,800
2007
footprint has plotted lots directly into

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the wetlands. So the lot lines actually
go into the wetlands requiring extensive

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fill and severe environmental
disruption. Um our site plan however

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00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:19,680
pulls back this development working with
the natural topography rather than

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00:11:17,680 --> 00:11:24,399
fighting it. And by steering clear of
these wetlands intrusions and dedicating

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00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:28,079
more open space and natural buffering,
we're protect pro protecting the

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hydraology and delivering a superior
drainage and storm water management

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00:11:29,839 --> 00:11:38,720
system for the surrounding community.
Um, as you can see from our site plan

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here, this a little 3D rendering of it.
Um, we have curved streets that, uh,

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eliminate some of the monotony and track
housing feel uh, by having these

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different lot sizes as well. So, we have
some lots as we'll go into in a second

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that are 90 foot wide, some that are 75
foot wide. The 90 foot ones are about a

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half an acre each. But by having these
different uh, lot sizes, it also allows

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for different housing footprints that
also eliminates uh, monotony and avoids

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architectural monotony. Um, so we have
generous undisturbed perimeter buffers

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on the east and west side through
wetlands and we have a uh a 50ft buffer

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along the south side that'll guarantee
zero access points to h Houston Liner

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Road or Gaylord route. We have dual
entrances and interconnectivity in the

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subdivision to ensure emergency vehicle
accessibility and neighborhood flow and

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walkability. and we have substantial
open space. Um the platted community

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parks provide usable recreational areas
for residents and we have dedicated

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easement access to go into the drainage
areas to be make sure that those can be

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cleaned out man maintained over the life
of the development.

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Um, as far as our site plan on the next
page, [clears throat] uh, again pointing

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out the wetland buffers on the east and
west side, you can see on the very

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00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:11,040
bottom of that page, it has a, you see
the dark green, which is our 50 foot

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buffer and the north west side the
Dollar General and northeast side is the

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Westworm Elementary Middle School. Um,
total site is about 150 acres. Almost a

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00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:27,519
third of the property we're preserving
in common areas and wetlands. Um parks

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is included in that as well. 230 lots
with an average lot size of 17,300

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00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:37,680
square ft.
Um this next slide that has it has red

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00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:43,600
and blue on there. Um has lot size
details. Probably one of the more

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00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:47,600
important slides. So, um, as we'll
discuss a little bit more in detail

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00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:52,079
later, there's a large demand for
working middle class homes in Harrison

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00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,279
County, especially in the unincorporated
county. This current site plan will

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00:13:53,839 --> 00:13:59,199
allow for multiple different price
points. We have smaller lots, it'll be

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00:13:57,519 --> 00:14:03,600
obviously a little cheaper, and then the
larger lots a little bit more expensive.

144
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:09,440
Um, in the blue area, we have home
prices starting at $250,000. Obviously,

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00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:15,600
all these are just estimates um for now,
but this is what the our market research

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00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:21,839
and plan is showing us right now all the
lot sizes exceed the R1 zoning for

147
00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:27,360
Harrison County. So even though we
qualify for the uh conservation

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00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:31,839
subdivision according to the UDC we have
to only we have to preserve 10% we're

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00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:35,920
preserving 30%. None of our lots are
smaller than 10,000 square feet or less

150
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:40,800
than 75 foot wide. So we're not taking
advantage of that conservation

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00:14:37,839 --> 00:14:46,959
subdivision. So, we're exceeding it even
though we qualify for it. That makes

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00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:52,240
sense. Um, the red outlined area has
average lot size of approximately a half

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00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:56,079
an acre and are 90 foot wide. Um, the
major thing to point out even with the

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00:14:53,920 --> 00:15:00,000
blue area though is that some of these
lots are even though they're just above

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00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:04,720
the minimum 10,000 square feet, that's
because none of our lots will have

156
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:09,440
wetlands in them. Okay? So, we could
have made those lots larger by just

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00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:15,279
extending that that property line into
the wetlands and saying that they're

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00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:19,199
larger. Um, that's completely legal and
but we've kept the wetlands out of the

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00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:23,360
lot lines to ensure that they will be
owned by the HOA and won't be able to be

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00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:27,199
filled by the residents over time. I
know that's something that has always

161
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:31,839
been important to you guys and has had
issues in the past, but that way with

162
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:37,360
keeping them in the HOA, allow them not
to be filled by residents over time and

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00:15:34,959 --> 00:15:40,880
affect the natural drainage of the area.
And just pay attention to the red and

164
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:48,160
blue area. The red area has big bigger
lots. The uh blue area has somewhat

165
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:52,079
smaller lots. Um park areas. So we have
two main park areas. There's some other

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00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:56,639
areas that can could be utilized for
parks, too. The park areas are very

167
00:15:54,480 --> 00:16:01,360
important to building a community and
making sure that children and adults uh

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00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:06,399
have gathering places and places to
play. There are two areas that will be

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00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:11,120
internally connected to the left and
right side of the subdivision to allow

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00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:16,560
for walkability. Um, and we've included
some conceptual designs of these other

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00:16:13,279 --> 00:16:20,639
park areas you can see around there. Um
these can't be finalized until we have

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00:16:18,079 --> 00:16:24,079
full engineering and have a home builder
selected, but we've done very similar

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00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:28,560
parks in other subdivisions and they've
done very well. Um including that lake

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00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:33,759
one we have a development in Gulport
that has been really well received with

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00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:38,639
the walking trail. Um as far as
infrastructure, there's water and sewer

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00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:42,399
along Weston Road and we do have a will
server letter for that. There's a fire

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00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:48,079
station that's right on the other side
of the uh of the school and police and

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00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:53,040
other emergency services are available
as well. Education obviously we're right

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next to Westworth Elementary and Middle
School and I'll mention again the

180
00:16:55,759 --> 00:17:01,680
environmental impact. We have less than
a half an acre of wetland impacts on

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00:16:59,199 --> 00:17:06,400
this whole site. So 150 acres with less
than a half an acre of wetland impacts

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00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:10,319
is is pretty huge. Um it's a lot better
than the previous plan that was here.

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00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:14,959
And one of the main reasons we even have
a half an acre of wetland impacts is

184
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:19,199
because we're making sure that the lots
do not have any remaining wetlands on

185
00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:24,240
there, so they can't be buil filled at a
later date.

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00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:27,360
Um, as far as traffic and accessibility,
there's a lot of uh discussion. Next

187
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,840
couple slides are going to go on some
things that were at the planning

188
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:34,720
commission, but there's a lot of
discussion at the planning commission

189
00:17:31,919 --> 00:17:39,440
about traffic and accessibility. Um, two
things. One, I think the best thing for

190
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:43,520
us to do is to get with engineering.
They're the ones who determine as far as

191
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:47,200
traffic and number one, what we could or
couldn't do in a rideway and what's

192
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:53,360
needed for the subdivision to ensure
track traffic is good. And we commit to

193
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:58,160
doing what they recommend. So, if the
traffic studies needed, we could do

194
00:17:55,120 --> 00:18:01,919
that. if the uh and if we can just work
with Jackie and her group, they do a

195
00:17:59,919 --> 00:18:06,080
great job and we can determine what's
needed for this subdivision to ensure

196
00:18:03,679 --> 00:18:11,840
that traffic flows properly. I will say
one thing that came up the meeting and

197
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:17,120
I'm kind of bewildered by this, but the
the tra there's no turning lane going

198
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:23,919
into Westworth Elementary and Middle
School. So, if we think that there's a

199
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:27,120
one going into here is needed, why isn't
there one in front of the middle school

200
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,799
and elementary school? Cuz you want to
talk about everybody coming to a

201
00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:35,039
location at the exact same time every
day and leaving at the exact same time,

202
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:40,062
that would be at a school and there is
no turning lane there currently. So,

203
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:43,600
either it's not needed or enough people
[clears throat] haven't complained about

204
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:46,960
it to get one put in, right? Um, I don't
think 230 lots is going to change that

205
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:51,760
compared to a middle school and an
elementary school all getting up at the

206
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:56,000
same time in and out at the same time.
Um, we preserve 30oot green space along

207
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,600
the front in case the county ever needs
to widen outside of the current right

208
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:06,480
away. They wouldn't have to imminent
domain any homes. Um, connectivity again

209
00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:12,000
we have walk to ensure walkability.
And for emergency access, we have a loop

210
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:18,640
in this road and we have internet
connectivity with walking trails um

211
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:24,240
around parks and the mailbox.
Um the next slide was about the G1 and

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00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:29,360
G2 G corridor.
So this was a huge discussion

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00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:34,960
at the uh planning commission as well
and

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00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:40,480
whether it was in a G1 or G2. And I
guess I my first contention is that

215
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:47,280
number one I think it's irrelevant. Um I
think this property was already zoned

216
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:51,360
and
let's see sorry first contingent that

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00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:57,200
it's irrelevant. So the same year that
those neighborhood plans came out from

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00:19:53,280 --> 00:20:02,640
the comprehensive plan so associate comp
plan comprehensive plan and all the rest

219
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:09,520
of them. This property was actually
reszoned R1 that exact same year. So

220
00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:16,080
whether it is or wasn't, I think, this
is my personal belief, has no basis in

221
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:19,440
opinion or or in fact of many or
whatever, but I believe that they

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00:20:17,679 --> 00:20:24,640
realize they made a mistake cuz why
would anybody put a G1 next to a

223
00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:33,440
elementary and middle school with G1
across the street of it all the way to

224
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:37,600
uh what is it? um social road and not
have it on directly abuing the middle of

225
00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:41,600
elementary school. But the exact same
year that those plans came out, they

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00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:48,559
reszone this property and all the
surrounding property almost two social

227
00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:53,679
road are one right um
exact same year they res

228
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:55,440
can't talk. We can't no ma'am. No,
>> there'll be a turn for you. Not right

229
00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:00,559
now.
>> Yes, sir.

230
00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:03,919
Um,
I guess I'll address that. So, the plans

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00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:10,559
came out, the community plans. It says
April 2007. This property was reszoned

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00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:14,960
in 2007. So, I don't know what else to
provide for evidence as far as that's

233
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:20,559
concerned. Um, however, I do want to
defend myself briefly in this

234
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:26,400
presentation. Um, as the opposition
said, our presentation was full of lies.

235
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:30,880
Um, number one, the property is split
between the G1 and G2 growth cor. So,

236
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:35,120
part of our property is in G1, part of
it's in G2. Number two, we didn't find

237
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:38,640
this out until after the presentation.
Even members of the planning commission

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00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:42,799
staff believe it was all in G2 at the
time of the meeting. Number three, these

239
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:46,080
maps are difficult to zoom in at a
granular level to determine exactly

240
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,760
where [clears throat] to where the
property is. And to be honest, I don't

241
00:21:47,919 --> 00:21:56,080
think that's by accident. I don't think
it's supposed to be exact. Um, and

242
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:59,440
number four, uh, there was a
subdivision, Liberty Ridge, that's I

243
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:03,039
already talked about that's just on the
northeast side of where we're talking

244
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:07,840
about right now. It's part of that R1.
Um, and it was recently approved for 90

245
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:12,960
foot wide lots facing Westworth and Road
that are approximately half an acre,

246
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:18,159
just like some of our developments.
Um, I did have a video and my fault

247
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:23,200
completely for not having it to show you
guys like kind of a Google Earth moving

248
00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:28,400
from Highway 49 all the way to this
property and show you all the

249
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:32,880
residential that's um that's surrounding
there, but I kind of already said it a

250
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:38,320
little bit earlier. I mean, there's
hundreds of single family residential

251
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:44,000
lots located directly across the street
and all the way to Old 49.

252
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:47,760
Um there are some recently approved
subdivisions. Most of these you can look

253
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:53,280
at it, but most of these are either
smaller than ours um or the same size.

254
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:58,000
There's even a commercial part of this
property that there's been so much

255
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:02,559
growth and there's so many residential
subdivisions and neighborhood residents

256
00:23:00,799 --> 00:23:06,159
that there's not there's a Dollar
General that got located on the

257
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:10,880
northeast corner of our or northwest
corner of our property. And there's

258
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:14,000
actually um a family dollar that's right
down the street. There's so much

259
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:19,120
residential here, but you have a Dollar
General and a Family Dollar that's in

260
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:22,480
the area.
Um as far as market analysis is

261
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:26,720
concerned, I'm not going to spend a lot
of time on this um because it really

262
00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:30,799
isn't relevant
to today's conversation because we don't

263
00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:37,360
have to prove a public need for this
hearing. Um, but as you can see, there

264
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:43,760
is a clear public need for homes between
200 and $300,000

265
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:49,280
in order to buy 10. Um, so there's a 2.1
month supply of inventory and the

266
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:55,120
average days on market is 45 days and
the median days on market is 19 days.

267
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:59,440
And the only reason I bring it up is for
importance is because our 75 foot wide

268
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:04,400
lots are designed to be in that price
point between 200 and $300,000 where

269
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:09,600
there is the highest demand for these
lots. Um I want to say as well because

270
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:14,559
there's some conflicting information
that the opposition brought up. These

271
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:20,080
are not real numbers from realtor.com
or trulia Brazil. These are from the

272
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:24,000
Mississippi G Coast MLS. Okay. directly
pulled from there right before our

273
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:27,120
hearing. They're not from an arbitrary
source. And I'm not saying they're not

274
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,720
legitimate. I'm just saying this is
directly from our Mississippi G Coast

275
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:36,960
MLS.
As far as economic welfare and value, um

276
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:44,720
the average price point for homes within
a 2-m radius of this site is 214,000.

277
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:48,559
Our base price starts at $250,000.
And um [music] therefore, of course,

278
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:54,720
it's definitely not going to be a
detriment to the economic welfare of the

279
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:59,120
community. And I'm going to let Andy um
discuss our various requests.

280
00:24:57,679 --> 00:25:02,640
» Hey, state your name and address for me,
please.

281
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:06,720
» Sure. Andy, 515 Hard Road, Ocean
Springs, Mississippi. Uh I'll be doing

282
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:11,360
the engineering on this project and talk
quickly about the variance.

283
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:17,600
So the variance request is if you are
familiar with your type one, type two,

284
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:20,960
type three subdivisions. Uh type two is
simply you have water typically you

285
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:25,760
would have a septic. We would not. We
would have dedicated sewer uh gravity

286
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:29,442
sewer system in there but uh type one
tends to have curbon gutter with pipe

287
00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:33,919
drainage and type two tends to allow
[music] for open ditches. So that's what

288
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:39,679
we're requesting is the open ditch for
90 foot lots. Um, we're requesting this

289
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:43,840
based on the physical characteristics of
the natural drainage associated with

290
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:49,440
this site. If y'all are on this sheet
right here, and again, apologies, we

291
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:53,440
don't have the the TV, but that red line
kind of following the back of the 90 ft

292
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:57,039
lots, that's a natural ridge line on our
property. And you can see that it kind

293
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:02,080
of favors I'm going to call it the
one-/ird mark to where everything that

294
00:25:59,679 --> 00:26:06,080
falls west is a little bit steeper and
everything that follows east of that

295
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:10,640
ridge you can see has more more room to
drain and it it tends to be a little bit

296
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:14,960
flatter because of that steeper slope on
the west side

297
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:18,400
we feel like or on the east side this
the shallower slopes we feel like curb

298
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,279
and gutter is going to work a lot well.
However, that ridge line is going to

299
00:26:19,679 --> 00:26:29,039
make it where the 90 foot side would
benefit from open ditches.

300
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:33,520
um having 90 ft wide lots plus having
we're going to expand the rightway to 60

301
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,279
on that side instead of the typical 50
and that'll give us the uh room we need

302
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:43,440
to have gentle swailes that are easy to
mow and walk back up. Um because of that

303
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:47,600
natural ridge line having those steeper
slopes on the west side, we feel like

304
00:26:45,679 --> 00:26:52,559
forcing the closed underground pipe
system here would require a lot of

305
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:56,880
unnatural earth cuts and more disturbing
and natural wetlands and uh drainways.

306
00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:01,120
We're trying to match we're trying to
stay out of the light green area on both

307
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,000
of these just because those are your
wetlands. That's where the drainage

308
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:07,679
really happens to get everything off
site.

309
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:11,200
Um on the wetland protection, if you
were to use curb and gutter, you end up

310
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:15,039
concentrating your storm water to single
outfall points, which are higher

311
00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:19,360
velocities, which tend to cause a lot
more uh erosion downstream, whereas

312
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,240
allowing the vegetated swailes on that
side would be able to slow the water

313
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,960
down, let it go where it wants to go
naturally and uh promote infiltration as

314
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,720
well.
um on the wetlands. I think Kenneth

315
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:34,880
pointed it out, but we designed it this
way and and are want to use this

316
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:40,400
variance to keep right now we're only
impacting less than 2% of the wetlands

317
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:46,240
on site. So 98 plus% of the wetlands on
site would maintain as as they are

318
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:49,840
today. And then finally, we uh note that
this is consistent with the approved low

319
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:54,799
impact drainage practices of the
surrounding area. Um there are some I

320
00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:58,240
believe it's in Edgewood I might have my
subdivisions wrong that are even less

321
00:27:56,799 --> 00:28:03,039
than 90 foot that still have open
ditches but then Liberty Ridge that just

322
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:06,799
got approved also is 90 foot with um
open ditches. And the last thing I would

323
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:10,960
just kind of add I don't know that this
is a a hardship but from a public

324
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:14,880
opinion standpoint one thing we hear all
the time is cookie cutting neighborhoods

325
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:19,600
and that's Kenneth pointed out we're
trying to have various lot sizes to

326
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:23,279
avoid that. Um, and then the, you know,
another thing out in the unincorporated

327
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:28,080
county here is more rural feel, which,
uh, that open ditch concept would have a

328
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:32,080
more aesthetic of a, a rural feel. So,
we're trying to keep these subdivisions,

329
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:37,120
while it's one subdivision, we want them
to kind of to to play out as two, if

330
00:28:34,799 --> 00:28:42,440
that makes any sense. And that's all I
have. Dave wanted to speak.

331
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,760
» All right.
>> Seven minutes.

332
00:28:46,399 --> 00:28:50,399
» Yeah. Seven minutes. State your name and
address for me, please.

333
00:28:48,559 --> 00:28:56,000
» My name is David Crane and I live at
2405 Broadmore Place in Gulfport. Okay.

334
00:28:53,360 --> 00:29:01,200
» And I represent G Coast Design and
Development.

335
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:06,000
So, I'm here helping support their
argument with that this decision of the

336
00:29:03,919 --> 00:29:09,440
planning zoning commission should be
reversed and the variance and the

337
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:15,120
conditional use permanent application
should be accepted. Y'all have a

338
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:19,679
Harrison County Uniform Development Code
which establishes eight factors for you

339
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:22,880
to consider when making this decision.
And I'm going to go over the factors and

340
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,760
time permitting. Then I'm going to kind
of go over what's in the record that

341
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:30,640
supports each of those factors. And with
regarding the record, there was a

342
00:29:29,039 --> 00:29:34,240
question asked just a second ago whether
something was in the record. Both of

343
00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:38,240
these matters are matters just like Mr.
Nolan said that are being decided on the

344
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:42,799
record of the planning and zoning
commission. So no new evidence whether

345
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:49,120
it's on our side or their side can come
in. But with regard to the the timing of

346
00:29:45,919 --> 00:29:54,240
the zoning and the timing of the um the
adoption of those community plans for

347
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:58,080
the zoning the comprehensive zoning or
comp zoning plan. Those are county

348
00:29:56,399 --> 00:30:03,440
documents upon which you can rely
regardless of whether they're in the

349
00:29:59,279 --> 00:30:09,440
record. Either way the factors harmony
with zoning with the zoning code and the

350
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:12,320
comprehensive plan. So that's I'm going
to go ahead and address that one because

351
00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:18,799
there was some discussion about it being
G1. It is obviously R1. So it definitely

352
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:24,480
fits within the zoning code. Um it with
regard to whether it's G1 or G2 as Mr.

353
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:31,440
Jones said, it's really not relevant at
this time because at the same time y'all

354
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:38,320
adopted those neighborhood um plans, you
also chose to zone this as R1. So it's

355
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:44,159
already R1. and the the the the
subdivision you approve at 780 houses

356
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:49,039
versus 230.
So we're pro promoting a subdivision

357
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:56,159
that's a lot smaller than the one that
was previously approved. And so and even

358
00:30:53,120 --> 00:31:00,159
then G1 still allows for control growth
and as Mr. Jones said this is a

359
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:05,039
conservation subdivision. It qualifies
as a conservation subdivision and it has

360
00:31:02,399 --> 00:31:09,919
30 foot buffers on either side. So it's
control growth that would easily fit

361
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:14,080
within the G1 concept. So with regard
the second factor is compliant with

362
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:18,720
district and development standards.
The third is neighborhood character and

363
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:23,919
adverse effect. The fourth is adequate
public facilities and services. The

364
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:29,120
fifth is economic welfare.
Sixth is no compat incompatible

365
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:32,799
nuisance. Seven is vehicular approaches
and interference with surrounding

366
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:36,799
traffic. And finally, eight is property
values in the immediate vicinity. So

367
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:41,120
with regard to compliance with
development standards, the proposed use

368
00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:49,120
is a single family subdivision and
already existing R1 property, 230 lots

369
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:54,480
on 150 acres. It's about 17,300 ft and
30% common area. Applicated applicants

370
00:31:52,320 --> 00:32:00,320
already stated that no lot is under 75
ft wide and it's 10,000 square ft. the

371
00:31:57,679 --> 00:32:05,120
smallest about 1,200 square ft and
that's in the record. Residential uses

372
00:32:03,679 --> 00:32:09,039
with regard to the neighborhood
character. Again, I can't stress this

373
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:14,480
enough. This is already an R1
neighborhood. Residential uses are

374
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:17,679
directly across West Warm Road and
elsewhere. School property above

375
00:32:16,202 --> 00:32:23,440
[snorts] the site. Liberty Ridge was
just approved for the 24 lot subdivision

376
00:32:20,399 --> 00:32:27,360
and recent plan includes our plan
includes parks and common areas

377
00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:32,080
including wetland buffers on two sides
and a 50ft southern buffer.

378
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:36,399
With regard to adequate public
facilities and services, Jones has

379
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:41,519
already testified that water and sewer
exist along West Road. They've been

380
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:45,039
given a a well served letter and the
police and emergency services are

381
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:49,919
available. Riverbend is the one who
provided the well served letter with

382
00:32:47,679 --> 00:32:54,000
regard to the applicant to economic
welfare.

383
00:32:51,440 --> 00:33:00,559
He's giving you price ranges of $200,000
to $300,000 homes that will at the

384
00:32:58,159 --> 00:33:06,240
hearing below
that was presented data that that was

385
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:11,840
showing 2.1 month absorption of homes
within the $200 to $300,000

386
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:16,320
um price range. So these homes are going
to fit within that and probably will

387
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:22,240
sell quickly.
With regard to no incompatible nuisance,

388
00:33:20,399 --> 00:33:25,279
there is no incompatible nuisance and I
don't think that there really has been

389
00:33:23,679 --> 00:33:30,159
an argument about that except the
opposition below argue that residential

390
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:34,960
development would conflict with farms,
livestocks, etc. But this is single use

391
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:39,039
family residential on R1 property that
again has already been zoned. So it's

392
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,480
you got to measure whether it's an
incompatible nuisance within its

393
00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:48,320
existing zoning and the existing zoning
is our one vehicular approaches

394
00:33:45,519 --> 00:33:52,480
interference of surrounded traffic. Well
Mr. Jones just mentioned there going to

395
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:57,600
be two entrances. There's a 30 foot
green space in case it's ever needed.

396
00:33:54,799 --> 00:34:02,240
And he's stipulated the low end today
that he's going to work with county

397
00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:06,559
engineer to work work on any traffic
issues. And the property values in the

398
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:12,000
immediate vicinity.
Again, these are 250,000 to 300,000

399
00:34:09,359 --> 00:34:15,280
$10,000 homes. There's going to be a
buffer area and there's not going to be

400
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,720
anything. There's no proof that this is
going to somehow diminish those property

401
00:34:16,879 --> 00:34:21,839
values.
And that's all I have unless you have

402
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:25,480
questions. [clears throat]
Anyone have any questions?

403
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:32,159
» Okay. How much time we have left here?
>> 1 minute 43 seconds.

404
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:37,399
» Okay.
>> Y'all y'all done? Okay.

405
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:37,399
» All right.

406
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:46,800
» How many on the opposition side do I
have that are that want to speak? Will

407
00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:49,520
there be a chance for just neighbors,
people just of the community to see?

408
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:56,240
» Raise your hand now.
>> Okay. I wasn't sure.

409
00:34:50,960 --> 00:35:00,160
» Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six.
>> You want to split it?

410
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:04,920
» 30 minutes. However you want to split it
up.

411
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,920
» However you want to split it up time.

412
00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:16,599
» I thought you said we only
>> 30 minutes total. side can break it up

413
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,599
however you would like.

414
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,480
» If you'll state your name and address
for me, please.

415
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:32,800
» Yes, it's Lyn Anne Stiller.
>> 19120

416
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:35,440
Gaylord Road,
Mississippi

417
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:38,440
is my property.
>> Okay.

418
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:46,200
Sorry for the objection. Earlier I was
my first time.

419
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,680
» Yes, ma'am. You can start whenever
you're ready.

420
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:02,240
» So, I am requesting that the board of
supervisors uphold the zoning commission

421
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:06,880
correct and legal sound decision. The
zoning commission looked at the facts

422
00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:11,520
and upheld our ordinances. A 230 home
subdivision is a massive jump. That is

423
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:15,280
not slow growth. I brought with me today
some documentation that was presented at

424
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,480
the zoning hearing. At any time, if your
packet does not contain one of these

425
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:25,440
documents, I'll be happy to pass it to
you. I want to mention that there were

426
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:29,599
over 375 opposition letters and 378
verified online signatures that were

427
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:33,760
printed per request of the zoning
commission. So, that should be on file.

428
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:37,119
I have a map from the Harrison County
comprehensive plan showing the subject

429
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:42,560
property being listed as G1 growth
factor. Um, in reference to the

430
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:46,880
applications, there's a little bit of
pattern difference when you look at the

431
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:50,800
tax records, how they wrote G1 and O2
and G2 and O2. The only one that is

432
00:36:49,359 --> 00:36:55,200
missing the handwriting is the one
that's on the uh main packet that covers

433
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,560
the larger section that's act that's
asking for the conditional use. So

434
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,160
that's why I felt like it might have
been a little intentional since out of

435
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:07,599
four papers, one of them was missing the
writing. Then the map, I understand it

436
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:13,119
is hard to read, but if you look at
here,

437
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:17,280
um, let me get the paper and hand that
out to you.

438
00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:20,079
» Was this was this paperwork that was at
the hearing?

439
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:26,240
» Yes, sir. Do you have access to that
now? Um, we do have, if you can show,

440
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:30,000
well, we do have
>> There's a lot of attachments here.

441
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,160
» What would be named? I'm sorry. We have
so many attachments. What are you

442
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,680
referring to?
>> This is from the uh comprehensive plan.

443
00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:38,800
This is the growth sector map from the
comprehensive plan.

444
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:44,720
» So, if you look here, this is going to
be South Gaylord Road and this is the

445
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:48,079
creek that floods uh Houston Lader Road
and you can reference that in some of

446
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:52,240
the printouts that I gave you from the
sheriff's department Facebook page. Uh

447
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:55,839
we had like a couple weeks there of a
lot of flooding and Houston ladder is

448
00:37:53,920 --> 00:38:00,160
one of them that floods often from this
particular creek. The subject property

449
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:04,280
is between this main creek right here
and um I'm sorry

450
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:12,599
it's one over. I looked at it wrong.
It's one over. It's where is it?

451
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:22,640
» It's the creek on this side. Anyway,
[clears throat]

452
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:26,320
you can look and see that this is going
to be in a G1. And if you pull the

453
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:31,440
application, you can see on the tax
record where they wrote G1 and G2

454
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:35,040
applications.
Does someone want to bring me the

455
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:40,640
applications up? They're in the in the
brown bag. I'll give those to you in

456
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:44,079
just a moment when they get up here.
All right. If you look at the map, you

457
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:47,280
can we already saw that. You should have
a list of two flooded streets that were

458
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:51,280
printed from articles from the sheriff's
department Facebook page. There's more

459
00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:54,960
only printed and the community
surrounding this property sustained a

460
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:57,520
lot of damage.
>> They're in the backup,

461
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:02,560
» sir.
>> Yeah, we have

462
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:06,640
to utilize my time.
>> No, we already

463
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:14,480
» Okay. If you look on the tax records,
some of the pages have G1 and G2 written

464
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:21,359
on them, and uh some of them don't.
So, this one is the 157. It's got the

465
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:25,880
smaller parcel that says G2 and O2, but
then the larger parcel has no writing.

466
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,599
» That's in the tax collector's record.
>> Yes. I I probably said the wrong name.

467
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,079
» Oh, no, no, you're fine. I was just
checking my

468
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:39,200
» and then you look at the condition the
uh variance application. Now look, I

469
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:46,440
don't think these are the moment. Don't
get me wrong. I'm just saying that in

470
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,440
the documentation,

471
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:53,200
» if you look at the variance with just
the second application

472
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,440
in the tax records, the writing is in
both.

473
00:39:54,707 --> 00:39:58,960
[snorts]
>> You see what I'm saying? See that same

474
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:02,400
handwriting is in both. We highlighted
that there

475
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:05,400
» when we discovered that it was labeled
G1.

476
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,640
You have a minute unless somebody wants
to donate you their time.

477
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:17,160
» Would somebody like to donate some time?
I'll give you one of my minutes. Okay.

478
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,160
» Um

479
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:24,160
anyway, so the if you if you look at the
topographical map I provided, you'll see

480
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,280
the massive amount of wetlands with two
creeks on each side. It's absolutely

481
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:31,680
dangerous to alter the course of this
much water with that much elevation

482
00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:34,720
change. It's a 30 foot drop. At the same
time, these type of creeks are dependent

483
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:38,640
upon the wershed from the higher
elevations and the water table. Myself

484
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:42,320
and my neighbors south of me, we depend
on this water with our livestock and our

485
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:45,760
aparies and it's a delicate balance
system. I don't think they fully

486
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:49,920
understand what's at stake here. The
lowerlying areas have been utilized has

487
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:52,960
been utilizing the water historically
and any changes would change the

488
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:57,119
conditions of the lives. The property
has an elevation change complicate

489
00:40:55,040 --> 00:41:01,440
compacted ground that has a recipe for
disastrous conditions during rainfall.

490
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:05,599
This development is trying to cluster
the houses on the ridge while trying to

491
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:09,280
avoid wetlands and adding many water
retention ponds trying to manage the

492
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:13,359
watershed if they have to ask for a
variance to manage the water while

493
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:16,319
trying to cut cost and cluster the homes
on the ridge and this pro proves this

494
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:20,319
development does not work. The
topographical nature of the subject

495
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:25,359
property is not like the 1998 in the
2002 subdivision across the street.

496
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,040
So from the Harrison County
comprehensive plan under the promote

497
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:33,520
growth as specified in the designated
zones and future land map in action

498
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:37,520
seven revoke resing approval if progress
is not made on developments within two

499
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:41,040
years. This property should have been
reverted back to agricultural

500
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:45,119
postdevelopmental fa failure and
historically it has always been

501
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,440
agriculture as it was paper company land
and should have been returned

502
00:41:46,058 --> 00:41:52,079
[clears throat] to that. Currently,
there are over 450 acres of the original

503
00:41:50,319 --> 00:41:56,000
7880
that are agricultural and have been

504
00:41:53,839 --> 00:41:59,040
zoned agricultural within the last three
years.

505
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:02,000
» Actually,
>> yes, sir.

506
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:05,920
» I only I only need two minutes.
>> Okay.

507
00:42:02,319 --> 00:42:08,160
» So, my time a minute.
>> Okay. So, you've got another six

508
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:13,560
minutes.
>> So, I want to correct that. My 41 acres

509
00:42:10,319 --> 00:42:13,560
is agricultural.

510
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:22,160
» It has already been zoned. The Fazios
have purchased over 400 acres and it is

511
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:26,480
on the agenda in about I don't know 10
days or so or eight days to be on

512
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:33,119
agricultural for their farm. So you have
a 230 acre subdivision that recently the

513
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:36,800
growth has gone into an agricultural way
and if you take the standards of the

514
00:42:35,119 --> 00:42:42,240
zoning commission where they consider
the impact of uh a subdivision the

515
00:42:40,319 --> 00:42:47,920
letters that get mailed out that's their
impact right that's going to be more of

516
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:54,560
an R1 and agricultural district not an
R2 as they claim and I argue to say that

517
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:59,680
G1 is a slow growth not a rapid growth
and a 23 30 pound subdivision. It is a

518
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:04,004
very rapid growth, very impactful on a
small rural road next to a school zone.

519
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:09,760
I don't I don't care what anybody says.
[clears throat] I believe that if you

520
00:43:05,359 --> 00:43:15,200
put an influx of 800 or more cars uh
less than a mile from a school zone on a

521
00:43:11,839 --> 00:43:20,000
small road that has a 15 mph speed limit
during working hours that it's already a

522
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:23,280
heavy burden. Now, if you speak to the
residents, it's it's going to be

523
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:28,000
catastrophic. And that's not even
including natural disasters, evacuation

524
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:34,079
routes, road maintenance, anything like
that. Um,

525
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:38,240
a 230 acre home is a monstrous
subdivision. Even we do have a lot of

526
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:41,920
growth out there and it's happening fast
and the people that live there and have

527
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:46,880
lived there are trying to absorb this
change and it is a stress. It is a

528
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:50,480
stress on them. If you think about four
years, how long it's going to take for

529
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:54,400
230 homes to be built, for them to be
running bulldozers and have trucks

530
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,599
coming in and out day after day for
years, that's the noise that we're going

531
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,280
to be hearing. Pete, I don't know if
you've ever sat in your yard and heard

532
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:06,720
beep beep beep every single day. I mean,
just the developments and look, I bought

533
00:44:03,359 --> 00:44:10,815
41 acres in the middle of the 700 and I
still hear it. So, can imagine what is

534
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:15,040
going to impact the whole area like
[cough] that. [clears throat] I'm not

535
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:18,160
against development. I just think that
things need to be done a little bit

536
00:44:16,319 --> 00:44:27,839
differently. Okay, I just want to say
that. Um, so you want to say, let's see,

537
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:30,880
there is a Ray Dalio, if I said his name
correctly. I don't know if anybody's

538
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:35,280
ever heard of him. He's the founder of a
very successful Bridgewater hedge fund.

539
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:39,599
He's been in the top of the Forbes list
and donates hundreds of millions to

540
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:42,911
charities and stuff every year. He wrote
a famous econom he's he's a famous

541
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:47,119
economic author and who has
[cough and clears throat]

542
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:51,200
anyway um he has a bra he has a quote
called embrace reality and deal with it.

543
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:56,400
Interesting fact about Ry is that he
isn't fond of developments and he finds

544
00:44:53,200 --> 00:45:00,800
them risky. This is a time for change
towards more preservation and

545
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:04,240
restorative measures. We are not against
development but development needs to

546
00:45:02,319 --> 00:45:10,480
look different. This application is weak
and contains a lot of misinformation. If

547
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:15,200
you go to page 18, line one, where they
say, but again, we are early and this is

548
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:20,079
just ballpark or line seven, I can
definitely go with smaller lots and make

549
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:23,359
them smaller. Page 22, what is your
special circumstances? This is what the

550
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:28,240
commission is asking. You've got to
satisfy four needs. The response on

551
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:32,880
record is I think the special
circumstances is dot dot dot. I mean,

552
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:36,880
obviously anytime dot dot dot and that's
the problem with variances. That's the

553
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:41,520
response. I don't I don't have any
information to go off that page 23.

554
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:46,319
Yeah, sorry I made that change. I guess
I didn't put that in here referring to

555
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:50,079
how many streets, but commissioner he
said she saw it somewhere and and John

556
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,440
stated he would agree. Now they're
talking about three roads going in and

557
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:58,079
out and that's great. I'm glad they're
talking about that because the traffic

558
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:02,319
is is going to be a serious concern. Um
the commission had concerned about an

559
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:08,960
influx of 800 cars with 400 cars going
to work between 7:30 and 8. Um,

560
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:13,440
Mr. Jones made a statement that they
would not all be going at the same time.

561
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:18,480
There's real no studies or anything done
to see what the impact on the

562
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:22,472
infrastructure for this will be.
Um,

563
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:26,880
I mentioned something about
[clears throat] the wetlands that people

564
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:33,280
don't typically walk as a park in
wetlands and Mr. Andy who um came up and

565
00:46:31,359 --> 00:46:39,200
said, "Well, we have some ponds. Um,
it's not a marsh, but they're wet ponds,

566
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:44,480
and the people do enjoy those. Um, I
would like to dispute Mr. Jones's market

567
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:51,280
analysis. When you pull information from
the MLS, that is an exclusive closed

568
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:55,440
listing service. And I don't feel that
it creates an accurate measure for the

569
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:59,680
whole market because there is more
things available out there than what's

570
00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:05,119
just in an exclusive MLS listing. I
would beg to see something from a

571
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:09,632
unbiased third party um [clears throat]
study or from someone who's not Dr.

572
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:12,160
Horton or a company that's owned by
[snorts]

573
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:17,839
an alliance, someone from the alliance
group or owners of developments.

574
00:47:15,359 --> 00:47:22,160
Um I know you hear the same voice of all
of these neighbors are upset. The

575
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:28,000
developers, they accept it. the
developers made statements about so we

576
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:32,079
already went over the R1 and R2 and they
did a generalized statement that there

577
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:37,280
is a lot of R2 in the area that I've
already talked about that

578
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:41,680
so developers like to say change or or
be changed and it's profound I find that

579
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,440
there is middle ground there has to be a
balance I'm telling you right now money

580
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:49,680
does not care about the ecological
balance that humans do and our life

581
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:53,040
depends on it unless you live in a cave
you know there are more restorative

582
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:57,200
measures is being done globally. This is
where the market is going. We're on the

583
00:47:55,280 --> 00:48:03,200
brink of change on the Mississippi coast
forever. Do you want to be remembered

584
00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:06,960
for passing all the new developments
with no change towards real restorative

585
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:10,240
preservation measures? [clears throat]
Imagine what you can do as leaders of

586
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:15,680
this community. And I'm excited to see
it happen. But no, but

587
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:20,880
» your 12 minutes has expired.
>> Okay. If anybody has any time left over,

588
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:25,480
I'll finish. You'll have five minutes at
the end for ma'am.

589
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,520
» Oh no, the others. I apologize.

590
00:48:33,473 --> 00:48:35,493
[clears throat]

591
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,280
» Dave, if you'll just state your name and
address for us.

592
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:47,200
» Jennifer Morin, 21,000 Houston Lader
Road. I'm also a PE teacher at Lyman

593
00:48:45,599 --> 00:48:51,359
Elementary. Yes. Social.
>> Okay. Uh like many families who choose

594
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:54,800
to live in the Westland community, I
live here because of its rural

595
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:58,640
character, open farmland, agricultural
herit heritage, and peaceful way of

596
00:48:57,119 --> 00:49:02,720
life. I was actually born and raised on
the property that is on the south side

597
00:49:00,319 --> 00:49:07,839
of this property of the development. Um
a family has lived here since 1800s. The

598
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:11,680
proposed 230 home subdivision is
completely upscale with the surrounding

599
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:15,200
area and would permanently change the
character of our community, our

600
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:18,880
community.
um the developers and realtors are

601
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:22,400
strictly in it for the money. Whereas
all of us land owners [clears throat]

602
00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:26,559
surrounding the development has all been
built on blood, sweat, and tears. They

603
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:32,160
can't relate because they live on 23
acres or 0.25 acres. They don't

604
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:36,800
understand hundreds of acres that you've
farmed for all these years. Uh look at

605
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:40,800
all the flooding we had a month or so
ago. It's because they're shoving these

606
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:45,119
developments between creeks, rivers, and
wetlands. These developments do nothing

607
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:49,280
to improve our community. All they do is
hinder it. They don't care about the

608
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:53,359
farms and the runoffs that will hurt our
farmlands, including our livestock and

609
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:56,800
ponds. And honestly, it's no fault on
them because they simply don't

610
00:49:54,720 --> 00:50:00,960
understand what it's like to maintain
hundreds of acres for us that live out

611
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:05,680
there. Just last week, I drove through
the development between Mark West Road

612
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:09,280
and Old Highway 49, and those roads were
already flooding. They're not even built

613
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,800
on yet, and they're flooding already.
We've got to stop these developments in

614
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:18,480
the county that's affecting our country
way of life and flooding homes. Will

615
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:22,720
Poston matter of fact when the storming
hap I mean when that storm happened he

616
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:26,319
was stuck on one side of the prop on the
road couldn't even get to his own

617
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:30,640
property. That's what these developments
are causing. Also there are thousands of

618
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:35,839
homes being developed between Canal
Road, Old Highway 49, Robinwood just to

619
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:39,839
name a few. Although the developer
claims there's a housing shortage, there

620
00:50:37,839 --> 00:50:44,079
clearly is not. It's just a shortage to
him and the developers and all that will

621
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:47,760
be building these homes because they're
not the developers are the ones working

622
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:53,760
on these other developments already
approved and being built. 24 acre lot I

623
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:59,040
mean 24 lots that he's been referencing.
That's 200 206 less than what he's

624
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:03,359
trying to put in there. Uh he said he
drove down Westworth but didn't see any

625
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:06,720
kind of you know farm activity of that
sort of thing. drive down Houston

626
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:10,319
Lighter Road, you'll see a lot of the
people that have grown up there their

627
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:17,119
whole lives that are still farming hay,
cow, whatever. Um the concerns are yes,

628
00:51:14,559 --> 00:51:21,359
the traffic. Drive out there during
school hours, drive out there afternoon

629
00:51:19,359 --> 00:51:25,440
when the schools are let out, sit behind
a bus on Houston Lighter Road trying to

630
00:51:23,119 --> 00:51:30,240
get out onto West Jordan Road for 10
minutes or so because the traffic's so

631
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:35,040
backed up. Um Lennis Quavvis Road, the
same thing. the roads, the drainage

632
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:40,640
systems, public service. We're shortage
in all of that even before this growth

633
00:51:37,839 --> 00:51:43,440
would be developed. Um they deserve
residents deserve confidence that

634
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:47,359
flooding, road maintenance, and
emergency response will not be

635
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:51,599
negatively impacted. Sewer and water
can't handle what they have after the

636
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:56,160
storm. There were so many uh flood I
mean boil water notices there on Shaw

637
00:51:53,599 --> 00:52:01,040
Road and in that River Bend area all up
and down Shaw Road. Uh, this proposal

638
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:04,720
threatens a quiet, safe, familyoriented,
country way of life environment. Once

639
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:09,200
this type of development is approved,
the rural character of our community

640
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:12,640
cannot be restored. Not to mention the
fire department. Yeah, there is a fire

641
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:17,200
station right there. But some friends of
mine live within three miles of that

642
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:20,800
fire station. And years ago, their shop
caught on fire and that station was

643
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:25,520
already out on another call and so were
the ones in Louisiana. They had to call

644
00:52:22,720 --> 00:52:29,359
one from uh Keiesler. Needless to say,
their shot burned to the ground with

645
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:32,640
hundreds of thousands of vehicles and
everything in it. As board of

646
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,119
supervisors, you know how many houses
have been built in Harrison County

647
00:52:33,861 --> 00:52:40,079
[clears throat] lately. But how many new
fire departments have we built? Uh the

648
00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:43,599
developer will build this urban sprawl
and he will leave. He will go back to

649
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:48,079
his home near the beach on Second
Street. We will be left to deal with his

650
00:52:45,839 --> 00:52:51,200
mess for the rest of our lives. If he
wants these developments, build it

651
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:56,319
elsewhere. You know what about
revitalizing DO or some of these other

652
00:52:54,000 --> 00:53:01,280
subdivisions? I know there's not as much
money in it, but it doesn't affect our

653
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:06,000
lives. Uh I respectfully ask the board
of supervisors to deny the Woreram Wood

654
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:09,040
subdivision is currently proposed or
require significant changes that better

655
00:53:07,839 --> 00:53:13,880
protect the resident schools
infrastructure. Thank you for your time

656
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,880
and your consideration.

657
00:53:16,319 --> 00:53:21,520
» My name is Pat Lowry. I live at 13381
Old Highway 49.

658
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:25,200
» Okay.
>> I would like to read something from the

659
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:31,839
core of engineers. There's been a lot
I've read the application. I've read the

660
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:36,960
transcript and I've read the code law u
the code book and there's a lot of

661
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:44,000
discussion in here about wetlands.
Everybody has talked about wetlands.

662
00:53:40,240 --> 00:53:48,400
This whole site can be a wetland. And
let me explain. Registered land

663
00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:53,680
surveyors are generally not qualified to
determine or identify wetlands on their

664
00:53:51,359 --> 00:53:57,599
own. While a licensed surveyor is the
legal authority for mapping property

665
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:01,760
boundaries, identifying a wetland
requires specific training in

666
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:06,319
environmental science, hydraology, and
botany. Determining a wetland requires a

667
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:10,000
specialized process called wetland
delineation.

668
00:54:08,319 --> 00:54:15,440
Instead of measuring property line
angles, a professional must prove the

669
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:19,119
presence of three specific environmental
parameters mandated by the core of

670
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:25,119
engineers.
Hydro hydrophic vegetation identifying

671
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:29,440
plants that that exclusively or
primarily grow in water or saturated

672
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:34,079
soil.
hydrate soils. Digging test pits to

673
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:38,960
analyze color and layering which
indicate prolonged periods of flooding

674
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:43,760
or saturation. Wetland hydrarology
finding evidence of ongoing surface

675
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:49,760
water or groundwater saturation. We're
talking wetlands. You're being asked to

676
00:54:47,839 --> 00:54:56,319
make a decision, a very important
decision without any delineation on

677
00:54:53,839 --> 00:55:02,000
these maps or plats or anything
presented that delineates what is truly

678
00:54:59,599 --> 00:55:08,480
a wet wetland. Let me make a quick
point. I have a hill 100 220 yards from

679
00:55:05,839 --> 00:55:12,640
my house. The top of that hill is as dry
as a powder house. You put a shovel in

680
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:16,559
the ground, you're going to find water.
That hill is a wetland.

681
00:55:15,648 --> 00:55:19,720
» [clears throat]
>> Thank you.

682
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:28,240
» Hi board. I'm Jennifer Taylor. I live at
21171

683
00:55:26,079 --> 00:55:34,079
West Rhythm Road. With that being said,
this directly impacts me and my family's

684
00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:42,240
way of life and our day-to-day movings.
We currently have to um mitigate around

685
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:46,800
the constant flow of traffic, uh semis,
um dirt trucks, all of those things come

686
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:51,119
up and down in front of our uh home of
residency. I have three children. We

687
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:57,359
can't even at this moment we don't ever
play out front ever just due to traffic.

688
00:55:54,160 --> 00:56:02,880
I can't imagine the impact that having
that many more houses on that road is

689
00:55:59,839 --> 00:56:09,760
going to affect us. Currently, there's
cleared out an area already for I think

690
00:56:05,839 --> 00:56:14,160
37 is what they told us, acre lots. Um,
it's right there on the bin. There's a

691
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:21,440
lot of traffic already. When the
gentleman talked about the home,

692
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:25,760
uh, like how much it cost unless you're
only taking trailers into effect, there

693
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:30,160
is no way that I completely believe that
the houses up in that area sell for two

694
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:34,319
to 300. not with the acreage that
they're allotted and the size of the

695
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:40,240
homes. So, I'm going to call that one
out right there. Secondly,

696
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:45,520
this is our community. I have elderly
neighbors. I have single mother

697
00:56:42,559 --> 00:56:49,760
neighbors who are having a hard time
with their day-to-day life, let alone

698
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:54,720
having the time to come down here and
meet y'all face to face to explain their

699
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:59,680
um positions. I've never been in front
of Fort. I don't even know what I'm

700
00:56:56,799 --> 00:57:02,559
supposed to be doing, but I feel like I
need to be the voice for our

701
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:06,880
neighborhood.
>> Um, I'm not against I'm with them. I'm

702
00:57:05,119 --> 00:57:14,160
not against
development as it is. Like I understand

703
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:18,880
there is growth, but the development
that is being proposed is something I

704
00:57:17,119 --> 00:57:25,520
would see in Gulfport. It's not
something I would see in social. Um,

705
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:29,760
again to piggy back off of Jennifer
is you go up and down canal land and all

706
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:35,520
of that. That looks like exactly what
he's proposing. That's that's all of

707
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:39,359
that area. Drive down west. Go past the
school.

708
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:43,680
» Go past socialure. It's over. Okay.
>> Just venture further out and you'll see

709
00:57:41,359 --> 00:57:45,599
that it's very contradictory to the way
that we live.

710
00:57:44,319 --> 00:57:50,960
» 9 minutes and 30 seconds.
>> 9 minutes 30 seconds. one. I think I had

711
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:56,280
two other two other people speak.
>> She's taking his time.

712
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:56,280
» She's taking Okay.

713
00:57:57,434 --> 00:57:59,454
[snorts and clears throat]

714
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:05,760
» Did you want to speak?
>> I wanted to say

715
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:10,280
» Yes, sir. Please come up. State your
name and address for us, please. For the

716
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:10,280
record.

717
00:58:12,079 --> 00:58:20,480
» My name is Richard Smith.
I live at 19621

718
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:23,680
Line Drive.
>> I'm not good at talking.

719
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:31,680
» That's okay. You're doing fine.
>> Uh

720
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:39,920
the biggest concern is y'all saying 230
homes

721
00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:46,559
time that time too you close to 500
Westworth road cannot hold.

722
00:58:44,079 --> 00:58:50,079
You can ask the sheriff. You come out on
49 and that's about the worst

723
00:58:48,559 --> 00:58:53,400
intersection
there is

724
00:58:53,440 --> 00:59:02,880
and it needs to be repaired now.
And then we threelane in traffic

725
00:59:01,359 --> 00:59:10,920
there.
You need to rebuild that. The second

726
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:10,920
concern is evacuation.

727
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:24,551
Social Louisiana road floods,
Shaw road floods, and old 49 floods.

728
00:59:20,640 --> 00:59:31,960
Same river. So you can't go south to get
[clears throat] out of there. What is

729
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:31,960
the proposal to go north?

730
00:59:32,559 --> 00:59:40,640
It's
old 49

731
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:48,319
floods in two different areas. And this
last rain, never seen it. I've been up

732
00:59:43,839 --> 00:59:54,400
there since 1995.
Westworth on when you come off of 49,

733
00:59:51,760 --> 01:00:00,400
you'll go down a big
it just rush in water.

734
00:59:57,599 --> 01:00:04,760
That's the only way out. I think
>> y'all need to consider this.

735
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:16,799
Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. We're
listening. I was just showing where you

736
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,880
were talking about on the map
>> where that flood was because I was

737
01:00:18,319 --> 01:00:22,559
familiar with
>> Can I add that that flood really never

738
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:26,079
happened before they started building?
>> No, ma'am. We're just It's his time. If

739
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:29,920
he wants to give it to you, he can.
>> We're all

740
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:36,400
to keep it the way it should.
>> We all live up there. But evacuation,

741
01:00:33,599 --> 01:00:42,400
y'all not thinking about. Y'all need to
come up with a plan. Ask your sheriff.

742
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:45,200
He has to put the gates out to stop
traffic.

743
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:48,559
» I promise you we do think of it. And we
work very closely with our sheriff and

744
01:00:46,799 --> 01:00:52,960
we have a list of roads. So don't think
we don't think of that.

745
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:57,520
» Well, I understand thinking.
>> Does anybody live out there?

746
01:00:55,597 --> 01:00:59,280
[clears throat]
>> Where are you talking about? Where you

747
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:04,240
live at?
>> Well, it's not questioned answer. Yes, I

748
01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:09,359
have family, you know, Robin Wood or
whatever.

749
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:14,000
» Right out there and see how much traffic
there is. It's terrible. [clears throat]

750
01:01:12,960 --> 01:01:16,079
» Terrible.
>> Thank you. Done. All right. Thank you,

751
01:01:15,839 --> 01:01:18,960
sir.
>> Thank you, Mr.

752
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:22,559
» All right. How much time is left?
>> 6 minutes and 50. All right. Six.

753
01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:26,319
» I'm trying to be fast. I want everybody
that took their time out today to come.

754
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:30,160
I just want to finish this a little bit.
>> Sure. I want to start off to say that

755
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:34,319
the subdivision does not meet the eight
factors that they stated earlier. And I

756
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:40,160
feel like we've already proven that in a
lot of what myself and uh the other

757
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:44,400
citizens have said and what this young
lady said over here. I want to reiterate

758
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:50,880
about the flooding happening prior to
the building. Um I stand in line with

759
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:53,920
that. And I think that's about it. I
want to finish so everybody else can

760
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:56,000
talk. So, I want to say change is
happening and it's not the old

761
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:59,359
traditional way of building
subdivisions. We're moving into more

762
01:01:57,599 --> 01:02:03,280
preservation and restoration. And this
is globally. This is what you see

763
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:06,400
everywhere. Everybody is dealing with
this problem and this is the direction

764
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:10,319
we're going. We're not regressing back
into the traditional way of just mowing

765
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:14,480
things down and and building houses.
There's got to be some change. Um, and I

766
01:02:12,880 --> 01:02:18,079
think Andy said it best when he said God
is the best engineer. I do have to agree

767
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:21,280
with you on that, Andy. I think he's one
of the developers. I think that was a

768
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:24,799
beautiful saying. And unless you live
under a rock lately, you see natural

769
01:02:22,799 --> 01:02:28,720
disasters are happening. The old method
of buying land and clearing it all out

770
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:32,640
and building homes and leaving it.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. And

771
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:36,720
you sit in the precious seat that holds
the preservation for all of this Gulf

772
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:39,920
Coast. You love this place. I know you
do. And I love I know you love all the

773
01:02:38,319 --> 01:02:44,079
resources. Everybody here probably likes
the seafood, the beach, everything. And

774
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:49,359
the people that come here, the
festivals. So, please consider more than

775
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:53,920
just pressure from an alliance of of an
exclusive few business owners who are

776
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:58,000
only here for monetary purposes. Your
decision today is affecting the quality

777
01:02:55,760 --> 01:03:01,760
of life for a rural community. The
zoning commission's decision was not

778
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:06,000
arbitrary. It was based on substantial
evidence and local guidelines and the

779
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:11,200
Mississippi courts have repetitively
ruled that zoning decision is fairly

780
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:14,880
debatable. It must be legally sustained
and the zoning commission did its job

781
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:19,440
perfectly. and we ask that the board
stand by the county's own rule book and

782
01:03:17,119 --> 01:03:23,000
protect our infrastructure and deny the
developers appeal.

783
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,119
» Okay, there's more time. Is there more
time?

784
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:30,880
» 4 minutes and 50 seconds.
>> Four minutes.

785
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:37,440
» Oh, I'd also like to say that right now
today there's 2200 homes on Zillow.

786
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:42,319
Again, we have MLS, we have Zillow. No
third party unviable study that can

787
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:45,839
absorb all of that. But that would be
the homes available.

788
01:03:44,319 --> 01:03:49,680
If any of the citizens that came here
today want us to get some of their voice

789
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:53,520
in, I'd like for that. I think he's
doing them in the back as well.

790
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:57,119
» That's fine. I just have to alter.
>> Yeah. Yes, ma'am.

791
01:03:54,480 --> 01:04:01,119
» I understand that. Um, but I also would
like to reiterate as well when he

792
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:05,200
mentioned the turning lanes for West
that would be phenomenal. So, if you

793
01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:10,640
guys could get some type of road
structure for that area. I know we're

794
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:15,440
rural. I know we don't bring as much tax
revenue as the city does, but if we're

795
01:04:13,839 --> 01:04:19,839
planning on developing and moving and
grooving, like we definitely need some

796
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:22,960
relief in that aspect and the schooling
as well. I know many of the teachers

797
01:04:21,839 --> 01:04:25,680
» Yes, ma'am. We we have nothing to do
with the schools.

798
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:28,480
» I'm just saying like that all takes into
effect when you're adding homes with

799
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:30,559
people.
>> Yes, ma'am.

800
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,960
» All right. How much time is left?
>> Four minutes.

801
01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:37,839
» Okay. You have four minutes. Please
state your name and address. My

802
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:40,319
» name is Bill Gilbert. live 18910 West
Worker Road, Central Mississippi.

803
01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:45,280
» Yes, sir.
>> And I guess just as a citizen here who

804
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:49,599
has already been impacted somewhat by
some previous developments, you know,

805
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:54,079
I'm I'm someone that had to get rid of
some cows and I hear these statements

806
01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:57,920
made about you up and down West Broken
Road and you don't see any cows or

807
01:04:56,240 --> 01:05:02,960
anything. That's because some of the
previous developments have already

808
01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:07,760
knocked you out. Okay? And if you go
look at 049 right now, some of the other

809
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:12,079
subdivisions that been going in there,
every week they got traffic blocked off

810
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:14,960
down there doing the big 18 wheelers
that's coming down through there tearing

811
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:19,920
the roads up and they just put little
patch jobs in there. If I go up and down

812
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:24,400
my drive road now in West Wortham,
there's all kind of four-wheelers, golf

813
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:28,000
carts, people on bikes and they're and
they're just constantly going up and

814
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:32,240
down through there. They're not stopped.
If I got cows out there on Westworth

815
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:35,760
Road, I got a bunch of people coming
from these previous developments and

816
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:39,440
their kids are climbing on the fences
and I try to go down there and I say,

817
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:43,280
"Look, I understand if you want to see
the cows." You can't have your kids

818
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:47,599
climbing on the fences. The first thing
I hear is, "Well, they're just kids."

819
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:52,720
Well, you're just an adult. They can't
tear up my stuff wanting to look at

820
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:56,319
something else. The other thing is all
the trash that comes off these trucks

821
01:05:54,480 --> 01:06:04,319
and all it blows out in the hay fields.
Okay, I got to walk out and pick all

822
01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:08,240
that stuff up. You know, if I see the uh
I hear all these people wanting to put

823
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:13,119
this on us, but you know where they
live? Much of them live down in Guffford

824
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:16,880
engaged subdivisions. Okay, we moved out
there and want to live in a rural area

825
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:20,000
for a reason. We don't want all the
traffic. We don't want all these

826
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:24,480
subdivisions out there. The
infrastructure can't handle it. If you

827
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:27,839
try to get out now on West Worth Road at
7 or so in the morning, want to go

828
01:06:26,079 --> 01:06:31,280
somewhere and I understand school
traffic, you got to have my kids went to

829
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:35,920
Westworth school first year it opened.
They were there. But it's something now

830
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:40,480
that we've reached
a boiling point. Something needs to be

831
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:44,799
done to the infrastructure. Something
needs to be done to the roads.

832
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:50,799
And
you know, I just see this as

833
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:56,960
I know I'm going to offend some people,
but money, it all boils down to money.

834
01:06:55,359 --> 01:07:00,799
And if you want it down in your area,
that's good. But I feel like as us

835
01:06:58,799 --> 01:07:05,200
citizens and social, we really don't
care for it.

836
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:11,559
» Thank you, sir.
How much time's left?

837
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:11,559
» Anyone want Steve?

838
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:21,039
got a minute and a half. Okay.
>> One thing that I would like to reiterate

839
01:07:19,119 --> 01:07:25,760
is the amount of water that's going to
come off of here.

840
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:30,559
» A tremendous amount. What was what was
presented in the first case was

841
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:37,039
topographical map. But what was not
mentioned is that there's a up to a 30

842
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:41,920
foot elevation change from the
construction site to where the streams

843
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:48,480
are. That's a tremendous amount of
runoff that's going into that those

844
01:07:44,319 --> 01:07:53,839
areas. In the presentation, Mr. Jones
said that those areas would not be

845
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:58,000
affected. How can it not affect it? This
is my experience with hydraology

846
01:07:55,599 --> 01:08:02,720
management. These areas are going to
flood and those open ditches are not

847
01:08:01,039 --> 01:08:10,720
going to be able to be maintained and
they're going to become eyes. So again,

848
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:16,640
you're being asked to to make a decision
on wetlands when the wetlands have not

849
01:08:13,599 --> 01:08:23,040
been delineated by a professional. You
don't know by these plats, designs,

850
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:28,400
uh all these fancy drawings and stuff.
The wetlands have not been delineated.

851
01:08:25,839 --> 01:08:33,440
And because of that, none of these are
correct. That whole site could be a wet.

852
01:08:32,960 --> 01:08:36,159
Thank you.
>> Thank you.

853
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:43,239
Okay, we have time for rebuttal. How
much? Got five five minutes on a

854
01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:43,239
rebuttal.

855
01:08:53,279 --> 01:09:00,159
» Yes, sir. All right. Uh, I want to
address Mr. Lowry's comment first. Um,

856
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:04,640
we absolutely do have a well
insulination done by ecological asset

857
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:09,279
management. already been submitted to
the core been done by a professional. Um

858
01:09:07,440 --> 01:09:14,960
the core actually has our delineation
and our application from permit of the

859
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:18,319
fill of a half an acre. Um we have to do
things by law. I mean we have to dial

860
01:09:16,799 --> 01:09:25,359
the eyes and cross the tees. They'll put
me under the jail without impact well

861
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:29,920
without a permit. So um
a lot of discussion was discussed about

862
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:37,679
you know they're not against development
build it elsewhere. And honestly guys, I

863
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:42,480
mean, if we can't all agree that where
or where else should development be

864
01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:45,920
besides next to an elementary and middle
school

865
01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:54,320
on a property that's already been zoned
R1 with hundreds of homes across the

866
01:09:50,159 --> 01:09:58,560
street on where where the developer has
decided that they're going to preserve a

867
01:09:55,920 --> 01:10:02,640
third of the property, not in fact, but
less than a half an acre of they're

868
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:07,679
exceeding meeting all of the R1
requirements. What else? What else do

869
01:10:05,440 --> 01:10:14,080
you What else do we want? Where else can
those developments go? I mean, I I can't

870
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:18,880
imagine another place that makes more
sense to have a residential development

871
01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:25,600
than next door to an elementary and
middle school that's already zoned that

872
01:10:21,440 --> 01:10:29,520
has all the things that I discussed. Um,
as far as traffic, I mean, listen, I

873
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:34,640
understand there probably are some
issues out there. We will do everything

874
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:38,640
with work with engineering. If they need
a traffic study, we will provide one. If

875
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:43,280
they recommend turn lane, we'll provide
one. We will work with them. That's

876
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:47,920
engineering's job. That's who y'all pay
to work with us on this stuff. And we

877
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:53,679
will commit to doing what they require.
Okay. Um I can't help highway 49, all

878
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:59,840
49, those kind of things. I can't help
with his ingress and eress of our

879
01:10:55,600 --> 01:11:04,719
subdivision. And um you know most of the
things they talked about were very

880
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:08,560
speculative. I'm not sure MLS is
definitely an independent source. I

881
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:11,600
think you have your real estate license.
You know understand that MLS is

882
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:15,280
definitely or you maybe
>> I did it for six months to sell my own

883
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:18,080
personal properties to save commission
but I do not have my realtor's license

884
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:22,800
for the record.
>> Okay. I do know that uh Zillow

885
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:26,880
I've looked at the same thing that
they're talking about. The 2200 homes

886
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:34,320
includes everything. It includes lots
and land. It includes commercial

887
01:11:29,440 --> 01:11:39,600
listings. It includes um apartments for
lease. It includes residential for

888
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:44,800
lease. Everything that's the 2200 homes
that are stand for sale. MLS is MLS. It

889
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:51,920
is a independent source. It is not from
me. It is not from anybody else. as an

890
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:57,199
independent source. Um, and the G1
versus G2 debate, again, I say it's

891
01:11:55,040 --> 01:12:02,320
irrelevant. If you don't think it's
irrelevant, property is split between G1

892
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:09,040
and G2. Part of it's in G2, part of it's
in G1, and it's irrelevant because it's

893
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:15,280
already R1. Um, and that's really all I
have as far as a rebuttal. Um, flooding

894
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:20,000
and drainage. Andy, you want to kind of
talk about that real quick? I think the

895
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:24,400
biggest thing is we are putting
>> I don't have just a whole lot to add. U

896
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:27,679
the one thing that they mentioned, you
know, engineering hasn't fully started

897
01:12:26,239 --> 01:12:32,640
yet. Now, I'm a little bit ahead of the
game. I've gotten some ideas. We've

898
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:35,520
located some ponds, but if we can't
fully engineer a site when we don't know

899
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:40,560
what's going to be allowed to be built
on the site. So, to my comment about

900
01:12:38,719 --> 01:12:44,239
God's better engineer than me, I
absolutely believe it. He put two major

901
01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:47,360
drainageways on both sides and I don't
want to touch the ones that he built.

902
01:12:45,679 --> 01:12:51,440
So, we're staying out of those. That's
why we're only put impacting so many

903
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:54,960
wetlands. You know, we are favoring the
ridge. They said we were clustering the

904
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:58,320
houses to avoid it, but no, you just
we're we're putting the houses on the

905
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:03,600
ridge because it doesn't make sense to
put them in a bottom in a in a in a

906
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:06,719
wooded bottom. So, we will design it. We
have worked with G Engineering Group on

907
01:13:05,199 --> 01:13:12,480
several projects. We've had a good track
record with them on this. We do like to

908
01:13:09,199 --> 01:13:16,239
put more ponds than maybe the some other
developers just because we feel like you

909
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:20,320
want to keep low points low and have a
pond there instead. Um that ties into

910
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:24,480
why we want the open ditches is that
gives us more release points to have

911
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:27,600
more uh areas in the back that will slow
the water before it gets into those

912
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:32,480
natural drainage ways. [clears throat]
The main thing I want to highlight the

913
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:36,000
east and west sides of are good size
wetlands and we're staying out of those.

914
01:13:34,719 --> 01:13:39,920
We're not crossing them. We don't have
any roads crossing them. We're not

915
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:45,760
covering any of them. We're We're not
We're not putting a a piece of equipment

916
01:13:41,679 --> 01:13:49,360
down in the holes down on the sides.
>> Anything else? Any questions?

917
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:53,280
» Is that everything?
>> That's it.

918
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:56,719
» Okay. All right. We have Is that all the
time? Okay. We'll move to the questions

919
01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:00,719
that we [snorts] have.
>> Kenneth, you said about the wetland

920
01:13:58,719 --> 01:14:06,080
reports.
Have you gotten an hydraology report?

921
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:10,239
Because the flooded roads are High
Point. Lennis Praver Cemetery Road, Pete

922
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:16,080
Hicken, Social Lazana, Kildo, West Maple
Canal Road. So I could go I could keep

923
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:20,800
reading them. That is a huge concern for
me is [snorts] the flooding and the

924
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:26,080
serious traffic. If you've sat out there
in the mornings on a school day, you'll

925
01:14:22,480 --> 01:14:30,159
understand the road is narrow. Large
trucks can't even pass each other. If

926
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:35,280
you notice, they'll go on the the edge
of the road. So those for me and their

927
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:40,480
way of life definitely concerns me. So
have you a hydraology report from an

928
01:14:39,199 --> 01:14:45,280
expert.
>> So, we have had a wetlands delineation

929
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:50,239
that analyzes the hydraology of those
wetlands and the site. Um, we will also

930
01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:55,440
be getting soil borings on the site
prior to development. Um, as far I mean

931
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:59,040
obviously we're not analyzing all the
drainage for the entire county. I mean,

932
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:02,800
you mentioned a lot of roads and
flooding and stuff like that. That's all

933
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,440
» just ones that we're dealing with with
subdivisions that weren't there before

934
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:10,000
is our issue
>> and all we can do I mean Andy's the best

935
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:15,440
engineer I've ever met and obviously
that's why I'm partners with him. But uh

936
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:19,840
you know we do our drainage a little bit
different and with these small ponds we

937
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:26,000
want the water to go where it naturally
goes and be off the site at the same

938
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:29,840
rate or less than it currently is. A lot
of times, I mean, sometimes that doesn't

939
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:34,239
happen with other developments or
whatever, but I mean, I can say for

940
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:38,480
ours, I mean, we put a lot of ponds for
that exact reason to ensure that you're

941
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:42,159
not having one major outfall that's
going to put water where it's not

942
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:46,800
already going and that's going to go at
the same rate speed. Um, you know, I

943
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:50,800
understand that there's problems along
the county. I mean, I know that there

944
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:54,000
was that one rain that a lot of people
talk about and stuff. I mean, I don't

945
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:59,520
remember how many inches of rain we got
in 24 hours, but it was more than

946
01:15:57,440 --> 01:16:03,360
» I think all of us have seen in a long
time. So, of course, the roads are going

947
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:08,400
to flood during those those major
events. I mean, when you're going to

948
01:16:04,480 --> 01:16:14,640
have 24 inches of rain in 48 hours,
there's there's going to be things that

949
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:19,760
do um and then
you said traffic and what was other

950
01:16:17,520 --> 01:16:23,360
» Oh, just the size of the road, too.
>> Okay. Um

951
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:31,120
» the traffic near the school is already
bad. So 500 more cars.

952
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:35,600
» I mean as far as 500 cars really isn't a
large amount of cars. I know it sounds

953
01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:40,000
like a lot but I want a major that is a
fairly major collector road in that

954
01:16:37,679 --> 01:16:44,800
area. I mean that's where the collector
roads go. Um I do understand that roads

955
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:48,640
are going to have to be widened over
time. I mean that's why you know land

956
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:56,239
and road how we've been talking about
that for how long. Um but I think that

957
01:16:52,719 --> 01:17:00,000
there's I think that the school I think
that there's a lot of development. You

958
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:03,840
talking about the quality of life and
the way of life.

959
01:17:02,159 --> 01:17:06,560
Please I know you've looked out there,
you've driven out there, you already

960
01:17:05,199 --> 01:17:10,400
know the issues that are out there, but
there's there's residential

961
01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:17,360
subdivisions, hundreds of lots that are
out there already. We're not changing a

962
01:17:13,679 --> 01:17:21,440
rural area, an agricultural area of
horses and cows into a residential

963
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:24,640
subdivision. [clears throat] This is the
residential subdivision area that's next

964
01:17:23,199 --> 01:17:28,320
to an elementary school.
>> You understand? Every time it floods, we

965
01:17:26,239 --> 01:17:31,920
get I get hundreds of calls and then I'm
going out there and then it's why do we

966
01:17:29,920 --> 01:17:34,640
keep putting subdivisions that increases
the flooding? And I'm just being the

967
01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:37,840
devil's advocate here. I'm just telling
you what my people tell me.

968
01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:41,360
» I don't know. They've lived there 60
years. They've never flooded like this

969
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:44,320
before. my road department guys. Oh,
Miss Rebecca, you can't you won't

970
01:17:42,719 --> 01:17:48,800
believe what Riverline Drive looks like
today. That really concerns me for

971
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:52,960
public safety.
>> And I think that your engineering

972
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:56,239
department does a great job. I mean, but
I also think it's the prerogative of

973
01:17:54,480 --> 01:17:58,480
this board. They want to change the
engineering design standards as well.

974
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:02,080
» Yeah.
>> So, you're right. I mean, you can't stop

975
01:18:00,719 --> 01:18:05,920
development
>> because there's flooding in Harrison

976
01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:09,440
County. I mean, because there's flooding
in major rain events. You can't stop it

977
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:12,880
everywhere. there's changes that need to
be made. Let's work together to

978
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:15,920
determine what those changes need to be.
>> And that's the point of the steering

979
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,960
committee. You know, GMC we've hired and
we're you're part of that. We want

980
01:18:17,440 --> 01:18:20,880
everybody at the table
>> to work on this together.

981
01:18:20,239 --> 01:18:25,040
» Yeah, for sure.
>> So, we're going in that direction.

982
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:29,600
» And I mean, we just all I can say is we
will do a job to make sure that we are

983
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:33,040
not adding to that to the issues that
exist right now.

984
01:18:31,199 --> 01:18:36,239
» And it is the large big boxes that are
coming in and hurting us the most. And

985
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:40,960
we know y'all, we know that you've done
great things in the past. So trying to

986
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:45,679
be hard on you. You know that
>> you have done us right. But we have to

987
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:51,520
protect the big picture.
>> That's all.

988
01:18:48,239 --> 01:18:55,280
» Anyone have any other questions? Um
any questions?

989
01:18:53,280 --> 01:19:01,920
The one one question I have Marlin is
the opposition and builders go to the

990
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:06,480
comprehensive plan and they say it's the
Bible. It's what we're going to use.

991
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:09,520
This is we go back to it all the time.
But in this case, we have a G1 and a G2

992
01:19:09,040 --> 01:19:13,520
property [cough and clears throat]
split.

993
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:18,719
Why wasn't that decided before it even
came to us? It needs to be one or the

994
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:23,120
other. Correct. Am I wrong in saying
that? I'm not I'm not saying but but it

995
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:25,840
doesn't need
>> I can't change.

996
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:29,760
» Well, I understand. But when this when
this was applied for, we should have

997
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:33,280
picked one or the other
unless we're splitting the property in

998
01:19:31,120 --> 01:19:36,640
half. You're going to do all homes two
different two different growth sectors.

999
01:19:35,280 --> 01:19:39,360
But I'm going back to the comprehensive
claim. That's what we're going to use.

1000
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:42,719
If everyone's going to use that, then
we're going to use it as it is. We're

1001
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:46,840
not going to we're not going to pick and
choose what we want to use out of.

1002
01:19:47,040 --> 01:19:52,719
» I mean, am I wrong or am I right? I'm
not Listen, I think that's the point

1003
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:57,040
where this committee is going.
>> Correct. There's there's been many cases

1004
01:19:55,520 --> 01:20:01,040
where this board and the planning
commission has not gone on what that has

1005
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:06,080
been. In fact, this is the longest
debate I've ever heard about what the

1006
01:20:03,280 --> 01:20:12,400
actual comprehensive plan says. I mean,
the one that was on John Clark Road is

1007
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:17,199
in 100% definitely without a doubt in a
G2 growth corridor. And that's not

1008
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:20,960
mentioned. So, if we're going to follow
it 110% then that one should have been

1009
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:25,280
approved,
>> right? I mean, this one I'm saying is

1010
01:20:23,440 --> 01:20:29,679
irrelevant. Number one, because it's
already been determined as R1.

1011
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:34,800
» Yeah. And number two, it is split. It's
not designed I mean those are not

1012
01:20:31,679 --> 01:20:39,600
designed to be 100%. It is not a legally
binding document. Zoning and we

1013
01:20:37,280 --> 01:20:43,760
discussed this before is the binding.
>> Right? If you don't have it by right

1014
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:49,360
then the conference plan is is not a
legally binding document. So I mean it's

1015
01:20:48,239 --> 01:20:52,400
split.
>> You can't do it. It's like a split

1016
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:56,159
zoning. You may have a pick or whatever,
but it's it's just a god. A lot of it's

1017
01:20:54,800 --> 01:21:01,760
a guy and that's how y'all have
addressed in the past, [clears throat]

1018
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:05,440
but I sometimes I wish you would.
>> Can we join in on this conversation?

1019
01:21:03,440 --> 01:21:11,000
» No, sir.
>> Do you have a question? Unless Anyone

1020
01:21:07,679 --> 01:21:11,000
has a question?

1021
01:21:12,601 --> 01:21:14,621
[cough]

1022
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:24,120
want to speak.

1023
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:30,480
» Yes, ma'am. There's there's no there's
no time for rebuttals. We It's

1024
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:34,239
» It's about your G1 question.
>> Okay. I understand. We can we can have

1025
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:37,880
that discussion afterwards, but not not
here. Thank you.

1026
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:41,920
» Okay.
>> I have a question.

1027
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:47,360
» If you have a question,
>> have a question. Would

1028
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:50,560
» would you talk about the G1 and G2?
>> What is the history? How long have you

1029
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:55,120
been there? What is
>> the comprehensive plan was adopted by

1030
01:21:52,719 --> 01:22:01,520
the board into the unified code and it
became the Harrison County comp unified

1031
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:04,480
code and that encompasses the G1 and G2.
Those are the directions that they but

1032
01:22:03,440 --> 01:22:09,760
the Ohio State [clears throat]
University saw fit for growth because

1033
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:14,320
that land itself was supposed to be part
preservation. It's a rural area. That's

1034
01:22:12,159 --> 01:22:19,600
why they probably labeled it G1 to be
slow growth next to the school for the

1035
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:25,520
balance. At the uh zoning hearing
approved that it was G1 and zoning

1036
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:29,280
challenged that say that they thought it
was G2 and wanted to know where

1037
01:22:26,719 --> 01:22:36,400
information was approved the information
in the application and um on the map

1038
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:42,337
» the zoning director
but it's my understanding through my uh

1039
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:47,199
research that the
>> [cough]

1040
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:52,560
» was adopted into the unified code after
it was completion somewhere I think

1041
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:59,367
around 2008 20 late 2007 2008 something
like that. So I took that as part of the

1042
01:22:55,679 --> 01:23:01,520
guidelines that I needed to go by
[cough and clears throat]

1043
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:08,159
» Eric I have a question.
>> Yes.

1044
01:23:04,239 --> 01:23:15,520
I I talked to my my appointment on the
planning commission

1045
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:24,480
» and can you tell me why they denied it?
>> They were focusing on the G1 G2.

1046
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:29,520
It it seems it it seems uh pretty simple
when if it's if it was this G1, it

1047
01:23:27,199 --> 01:23:34,040
should have never been reszone to R1.
>> Correct. Once you reszone it to R1,

1048
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:43,360
» well once zoning is done, unless it's a
>> plan like some kind of special plan

1049
01:23:40,639 --> 01:23:48,320
development, zoning never reverts.
>> It does not revert even if our

1050
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:54,400
comprehensive plan says that it does.
>> It does not revert unless it is a by law

1051
01:23:52,159 --> 01:24:00,320
zoning cannot revert to anything else.
So this piece of property can never

1052
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:05,600
revert to something else unless someone
comes in and tries to get it reszoned to

1053
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:11,280
agriculture. It is zoned
and zoning runs with the land. When when

1054
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:17,520
it's approved by this board, it runs
with the land. Comprehensive plan uh

1055
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:26,480
conditional uses run with the developer.
Now if we find that the developer was

1056
01:24:22,639 --> 01:24:32,719
you know untruthful or uh misrepresented
himself in a case there is there is a

1057
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:38,239
way to pull the condition but not the
zoning this zoning once the only zoning

1058
01:24:36,080 --> 01:24:43,520
if the if it's proven that that the
developer did not represent represent

1059
01:24:41,199 --> 01:24:47,440
himself in good faith you could make a
case to revert that zoning back but it's

1060
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:52,320
not an automatic
and it doesn't get done because if a

1061
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:57,440
property owner has reszoneed his
property from A1 to R1 with the respect

1062
01:24:54,800 --> 01:25:01,440
of doing a subdivision and he still
wants to do a subdivision, he's not

1063
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:05,600
going to revert his property back to A1.
That's just one more hurdle he has to go

1064
01:25:03,199 --> 01:25:08,458
back through.
So, [clears throat]

1065
01:25:08,960 --> 01:25:18,880
so explain to me just the
legally the difference in R1 and R2. I'm

1066
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:24,480
just looking at this map right here and
everything I see that surrounds this

1067
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:28,000
property. To the east,
I guess it's the east and west. I'm not

1068
01:25:26,239 --> 01:25:34,159
great at directions looking at this, but
to the east and west is R1. Mhm.

1069
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:37,199
» There is some A1 to the south of it, I
believe.

1070
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:42,159
» Right. And then everything to the north
across the street is either

1071
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:45,840
most of it's R2,
>> right?

1072
01:25:42,639 --> 01:25:49,679
» What what allows for manufactured out
manufacturing.

1073
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:54,239
» Uh we don't have a lot of that in the
subdivisions across the street. They're

1074
01:25:51,440 --> 01:25:58,880
their majority R1. Well, the subdivision
I I went through there yesterday and

1075
01:25:56,719 --> 01:26:03,360
there there's a there's more homes, but
there are more there are there are some

1076
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:06,920
streets that have have manufactured
homes. Yes.

1077
01:26:09,120 --> 01:26:16,320
» I don't know what the rest of the board
will say, but for me,

1078
01:26:13,840 --> 01:26:19,360
I know if this goes to the next level
what the outcome's going to be. the

1079
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:25,760
courts are going to rule in favor of the
developer simply because this is zoned

1080
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:30,920
R1 and everything around it zoned R1. So
for me, I have no option. I I

1081
01:26:32,239 --> 01:26:38,520
but but to support the appeal. That's
that's me.

1082
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:45,480
» Any more questions? Any more questions?

1083
01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:54,560
I make a motion, Nathan. Is there make
anything in the form of a motion?

1084
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:58,080
» I'll make a motion.
>> I'll second it.

1085
01:26:56,639 --> 01:27:02,000
» The motion is to
>> to accept to deny

1086
01:26:59,679 --> 01:27:05,040
» to deny the
toe

1087
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:08,719
to uphold.
>> I'll make I'll make the motion. I don't

1088
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:11,760
know what anybody been. I just
>> So, we got

1089
01:27:09,760 --> 01:27:15,679
» It's tough.
It's our

1090
01:27:13,199 --> 01:27:20,400
» All right. So we have a motion and we
have a second. Okay. All those in favor?

1091
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:23,440
» I.
>> No.

1092
01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:27,040
» All those opposed?
>> I

1093
01:27:25,199 --> 01:27:32,320
Okay. So then we do another Do we want
to do a second motion to clear to clear

1094
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:36,719
this or leave it as is?
>> I understand. But before we had this

1095
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:40,239
issue, they we we did the the second way
as well.

1096
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:43,640
So we're good. [snorts]
>> Well, now

1097
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:46,960
» wait. I thought you made a motion to
[clears throat] motion

1098
01:27:44,159 --> 01:27:51,719
» to grant the
correct

1099
01:27:48,239 --> 01:27:51,719
» to grant the

1100
01:27:56,960 --> 01:28:03,440
» I'm sorry you made a motion to hold the
appeal allowing it.

1101
01:28:02,239 --> 01:28:06,159
» Kent seconded it.
>> Yeah, there was no

1102
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:08,800
» How did you
>> I didn't second

1103
01:28:07,440 --> 01:28:10,800
» No, Kent second.
>> No, I didn't vote with

1104
01:28:09,679 --> 01:28:14,400
» He voted against it.
>> Oh.

1105
01:28:12,719 --> 01:28:18,120
Oh,
>> yeah. All three of them.

1106
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:26,760
» Yeah.

1107
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:34,480
» So, the motion fails three to two.
>> Okay.

1108
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:37,480
» All right. So, that's the end of the
hearing.

1109
01:28:41,040 --> 01:28:48,480
explain what happened.
>> Um, so the board denied the um denied

1110
01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:52,400
the appeal. So there is a process for
them to rebuttal which would be a uh

1111
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:58,760
we'll take it to the court. So it
doesn't end here. This is just one more

1112
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:58,760
step. So

1113
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:22,639
Whether they win or not to

1114
01:29:22,719 --> 01:29:26,040
I'm vote

1115
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:33,737
for
[cough and clears throat]

1116
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:41,679
this session.
>> No, we haven't recessed yet.

1117
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:46,520
» I just
I work with Haley Barber

1118
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:58,719
to Washington with
contacted this week. If you asked him

1119
01:29:55,360 --> 01:30:05,199
because there was some potential
asked him what was the purpose

1120
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:12,320
billion dollar on the infrastructure
sewer water towers north of

1121
01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:16,960
Wisconsin
while the program was designed to

1122
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:22,719
overhaul water wastewater
networks across the lower coastal

1123
01:30:19,440 --> 01:30:26,960
county. A primary strategic goal of the
initiative was to build out a

1124
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:32,719
centralized utility infrastructure
backbone north of Interstate high-tech.

1125
01:30:30,320 --> 01:30:36,960
The explicit intent behind this northern
expansion was to incentivize residential

1126
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:42,480
and commercial [clears throat]
development further inland supporting a

1127
01:30:39,840 --> 01:30:47,120
northward migration to minimize
vulnerability to catastrophic storm

1128
01:30:45,120 --> 01:30:50,800
surge.
I don't argue with exist but who who

1129
01:30:49,280 --> 01:30:54,159
nowhere in there it says how many miles
north do you go

1130
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:58,960
» in there it doesn't it doesn't tell you
how far to go it just says north about

1131
01:30:56,239 --> 01:31:05,480
10 doesn't say north by 10 10 miles two
miles four miles

1132
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:05,480
» is that talking about stud

1133
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:11,000
» no
just in general

1134
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:20,080
» yes I know we need to film we need to
Okay, I want you all one more thing.

1135
01:31:18,159 --> 01:31:24,480
Write this down.
>> Look up. It just passed two weeks ago by

1136
01:31:22,239 --> 01:31:31,440
HUD housing and urban development. It's
called the Road to Housing Act.

1137
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:35,040
» It's punitive action to be taken against
municipalities

1138
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:41,440
that deny
development due to

1139
01:31:38,400 --> 01:31:47,040
» here's the exact words. It says uh
minimum lot sales, density, minimum lot

1140
01:31:44,159 --> 01:31:52,560
sizes, density, discretionary approvals,
likely review timelines, obstacles to

1141
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:57,520
middle inome housing. It says what
they're doing is after enactment,

1142
01:31:54,800 --> 01:32:04,639
communities not in conformance will see
CDBG funds reduced by 10% if growth

1143
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:09,040
rates below medium average medium growth
rate would see additional C. In other

1144
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:12,400
words, if they
based on the barometer that was in

1145
01:32:10,639 --> 01:32:18,320
existence, if there was growth, they
would see CDBG funding increased. If

1146
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:23,040
not, it uh it will be decreased. I've
been contacted by the National Home

1147
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:28,400
Builders Association who is aware of
things that have been happening in

1148
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:33,520
Harrison County. I also talked with um u
the fellow from uh his name.

1149
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:36,719
» We welcome any conversation with anyone
that we do the best we can do when we're

1150
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:40,239
up here. We're going to get it right.
No, we're gonna get it wrong. Yes. But I

1151
01:32:38,960 --> 01:32:43,920
will have an open conversation with
anyone that talks about CPG and anything

1152
01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:49,360
you have written there about whatever it
is, that's fine. We meet we meet twice a

1153
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:52,400
month. Anyone that that you're referring
to can come in and speak.

1154
01:32:50,719 --> 01:32:58,480
» Call me. I'll put them on the agenda.
>> Okay. That's what I'm saying is that

1155
01:32:54,080 --> 01:33:02,880
NAHB has targeted the county for some of
the rulings of the last couple.

1156
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:05,600
» Okay. We want to get on the agenda. We
anticipate we anticipate them to reach

1157
01:33:05,040 --> 01:33:07,840
out.
>> Okay.

1158
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:11,920
» Thank you.
>> This, you know, this is the first time I

1159
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:17,840
I'm
>> built more homes in uh South Mississippi

1160
01:33:15,440 --> 01:33:19,280
than any other builder for 16 years.
>> Um

1161
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:24,960
» what's your name?
>> Larry Matraa. I owned Heinaman Homes,

1162
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:30,480
Hinman Companies. And as a matter of
fact, um at the time this all took

1163
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:34,800
place, that's why Hy reached out. I had
over a thousand lots in inventory at the

1164
01:33:32,719 --> 01:33:40,560
time and I have 50 some houses done
construction and I'm 78 years old now so

1165
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:45,440
I haven't been here in a long time but
um uh the the issue

1166
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:48,639
» I'm sure we have to get with our meeting
we're in a public meeting we're not

1167
01:33:46,719 --> 01:33:53,280
supposed to talk to you separately on
the agenda I'm so sorry

1168
01:33:50,480 --> 01:33:57,360
» on the agenda you some time to speak to
>> please do but we have to do it legally

1169
01:33:55,520 --> 01:34:00,159
» let's I would actually I was here 8:30
this morning because I wasn't aware that

1170
01:33:59,199 --> 01:34:02,480
it was
>> Yes, sir.

1171
01:34:00,719 --> 01:34:04,880
» So, I listed everything else. All right.
>> So, if there's there's nothing else, um

1172
01:34:04,480 --> 01:34:08,000
we'll
>> I'll make a motion to recess.

1173
01:34:06,159 --> 01:34:13,600
» Okay. But I want to recess in the name
of uh Gregory Crochet. He was perhaps uh

1174
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:17,360
he worked for Harris County Soil Water
Board, Natural Conservation Service,

1175
01:34:15,120 --> 01:34:20,639
Mississippi Association of Conservation
District and Soil and Water for the

1176
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:24,400
Commission Board. So, I'd like to close
in his honor or recess in his honor.

1177
01:34:23,199 --> 01:34:25,280
» I'll make that much second.
>> All right.

1178
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:28,159
» Yes.
>> All right. Uh discussion. All those in

1179
01:34:27,280 --> 01:34:31,639
favor? I
>> All right. recessed.

1180
01:34:32,639 --> 01:34:38,280
» Foundation of that CDBG grant to