[0:00] All those in favor.
>> All right, let's get this party started.
[0:08] » I'd rather dig up earthworms and count
them than deal with me.
[0:13] » Maybe even eat them.
>> I'd eat them at this point. I just
[0:16] They're just It's just
>> I mean, I was hoping that our plan to
[0:20] get to the point where we don't have to
[0:36] No, they're all
[0:41] » I don't think
[0:55] » [cough]
[1:02] » John.
[1:09] » Well, he had he had
[1:20] » [clears throat]
[1:52] [clears throat]
[2:17] » It's not
[2:34] too much. How yall doing?
[2:49] » I got one more.
[2:54] Sorry.
[3:00] » Yeah. All right.
[3:19] No screen.
[3:23] » Did you have a flash drive?
>> Yeah, we did. We have to be made aware
[3:28] before get our No, that's okay.
[snorts]
[3:31] » It is usually in here though, right?
[3:38] All
[4:05] right, here come
[4:09] All right, this is our 11:30 appeal. The
appellant Kenneth Jones from GF Coast
[4:14] Development and Design LLC is appealing
the planning commission denial of case
[4:18] number 2606 HC 157 requesting a
conditional use permit to allow for a
[4:25] 230 lot single family residential
subdivision on 150 acre parcel on West
[4:30] Worm Road. Abalore and tax partial
number is 0504
[4:35] 34002.0000
[4:39] and 050433
uh- 001.0000
[4:46] hearing before the Harrison County
Planning Commission was the time when
[4:50] the applicant andor and object OB
objectors were given the opportunity to
[4:56] make a record in support of their
respective positions. Since the
[4:59] appellant has exercised his right to
appeal the planning commission ruling to
[5:03] the Harris County Board of Supervisors,
only the record made before the planning
[5:07] commission and order arguments will be
considered by the board of supervisors.
[5:10] Both appellent and opposition
[clears throat]
[5:14] are allowed 30 minutes.
Uh the appellant uh will be allowed a
[5:20] fiveminute rebuttal. The appellant or
opposition will address [snorts] any
[5:25] board questions. then the board will
render its decision. I'm recommending
[5:29] that since both appeals are dealing with
the same property and appellant
[5:33] recommend hearing both appeals together.
And if the first appeal fails, the
[5:38] second appeal would be a move point.
[5:43] » All right. If you'll be the keeper of
the clock,
[5:44] » I will call the first who's going first
and how long.
[5:50] » All right, Mr. Jones. How long does Mr.
Jones have?
[5:53] » 30 minutes.
>> Yes, ma'am. Um, Mr. Jones, do you agree
[5:57] to combine both the fields?
>> Yes.
[6:02] » And, uh, I'll be speaking for a little
while. Um, Andy Felen will be joining me
[6:09] and then we our attorney as well. So, u,
thank you all for having me here today.
[6:15] I guess I don't need to say my name and
address for the record.
[6:19] But um
so we're here today um not to request a
[6:24] reim um but only a conditional use. So
as a matter of law and public record,
[6:31] the land use of this property, it's
already been settled. Um this property
[6:35] has been zoned R1 since 2007 when it was
designated for residential growth
[6:41] alongside the surrounding parcels. that
zoning remains in full legal effect,
[6:46] does not expire, does not revert.
Under the R1, the right to build single
[6:52] family residential homes on this land
has already been established and is
[6:56] allowed by right. We're not here to
litigate zoning, debate public need, or
[7:03] evaluate a change in character
neighborhood. That's [clears throat]
[7:06] already been done. Property literally a
bust of land for West Wam Middle and
[7:11] Elementary School. I've heard many
discussions with the planning
[7:14] commission, the board opposition and
developers like myself over the last
[7:19] several years to this this room and
other rooms like it and I cannot recall
[7:23] a time where anyone has ever suggested
that residential housing should not go
[7:29] next to an elementary or middle school.
In fact, this is likely the most logical
[7:34] place to have a residential development
that y'all have ever heard as far as an
[7:39] appeal case. um for the conditional use
which does so the com the conditional
[7:46] use permit does revert back and pro no
progress is made in two years and that's
[7:51] the reason why we're here but for this
conditional use we must show that our
[7:55] site plan conforms to the concepts in
the UDC
[7:59] and you'll see from our our presentation
that it not only meets those
[8:04] requirements exceeds [clears throat]
them in every instance
[8:08] um on the next page of that presentation
that I gave to you guys. Um, on the
[8:14] zoning map, it says this parcel doesn't
sit in isolation. So, as I mentioned a
[8:19] second ago, in 2007, this property and
the contiguous tracks immediately to the
[8:25] east and west of this parcel were
approved as a master plan community of
[8:30] 780 lots or 780 homes. and uh this R red
one designation that's right there
[8:37] adjacent to this this that boundary. Um
so directly north to the of our site
[8:44] established single family residential
neighborhoods with hundreds of homes. So
[8:49] I'm sure all of you have driven out
there and know what I'm talking about,
[8:51] but Edgewood has about 165 lots.
Magnolia Heights has 180 lots. Shady
[8:58] Hills has 92 lots. And as you travel
further east back towards Highway 49,
[9:04] you have development and residential on
both sides of the streets. You have Worm
[9:08] Estates, Twin Lakes, Robinwood, Woram
Heights. Again, hundreds of single
[9:14] family residential lots. Um, and I've
driven out there. I'm sure there are
[9:21] several places that maybe have a horse
or something like that on Westworth. I
[9:26] haven't really seen them, but there's
very very few places driving on
[9:31] Westworth and from Highway 49 getting to
this property that there's any
[9:35] agricultural land whatsoever.
Um, also our property borders C2
[9:42] Commercial. There's a Dollar General and
the top um the north west side of our
[9:48] property and there's a bunch of R2
zoning that's in the general area as
[9:52] well as you guys know is medium density
residential and actually allows for
[9:56] duplexes. Um directly to the east again
I'll mention this several times is uh
[10:00] the Westworth and middle and elementary
school.
[10:04] Uh on the next page
is the site plan for the previously
[10:09] approved 780 um lot development that was
done in 2007.
[10:14] After this uh the the person who went
through the process and who owned the
[10:18] land got sick um I think with cancer
ended up losing the property to the
[10:23] bank. It ended up getting sold several
times and then mostly got sold in some
[10:27] larger tracks to various people. Um to
date only one other subdivision has been
[10:33] approved out of this track. It's the
north uh northwest corner of this track.
[10:38] It was recently approved by this board
and by the planning commission for 24
[10:42] 1/2 acre lots fronting west. Um which is
actually pretty comparison to the larger
[10:49] lots and part of our property. And you
can I want to point out some differences
[10:54] even between this which was approved and
our current site plan. So we have uh the
[11:00] 2007
footprint has plotted lots directly into
[11:04] the wetlands. So the lot lines actually
go into the wetlands requiring extensive
[11:08] fill and severe environmental
disruption. Um our site plan however
[11:13] pulls back this development working with
the natural topography rather than
[11:17] fighting it. And by steering clear of
these wetlands intrusions and dedicating
[11:22] more open space and natural buffering,
we're protect pro protecting the
[11:25] hydraology and delivering a superior
drainage and storm water management
[11:29] system for the surrounding community.
Um, as you can see from our site plan
[11:34] here, this a little 3D rendering of it.
Um, we have curved streets that, uh,
[11:42] eliminate some of the monotony and track
housing feel uh, by having these
[11:47] different lot sizes as well. So, we have
some lots as we'll go into in a second
[11:51] that are 90 foot wide, some that are 75
foot wide. The 90 foot ones are about a
[11:55] half an acre each. But by having these
different uh, lot sizes, it also allows
[12:00] for different housing footprints that
also eliminates uh, monotony and avoids
[12:06] architectural monotony. Um, so we have
generous undisturbed perimeter buffers
[12:12] on the east and west side through
wetlands and we have a uh a 50ft buffer
[12:17] along the south side that'll guarantee
zero access points to h Houston Liner
[12:22] Road or Gaylord route. We have dual
entrances and interconnectivity in the
[12:28] subdivision to ensure emergency vehicle
accessibility and neighborhood flow and
[12:33] walkability. and we have substantial
open space. Um the platted community
[12:38] parks provide usable recreational areas
for residents and we have dedicated
[12:44] easement access to go into the drainage
areas to be make sure that those can be
[12:48] cleaned out man maintained over the life
of the development.
[12:53] Um, as far as our site plan on the next
page, [clears throat] uh, again pointing
[12:58] out the wetland buffers on the east and
west side, you can see on the very
[13:02] bottom of that page, it has a, you see
the dark green, which is our 50 foot
[13:07] buffer and the north west side the
Dollar General and northeast side is the
[13:13] Westworm Elementary Middle School. Um,
total site is about 150 acres. Almost a
[13:19] third of the property we're preserving
in common areas and wetlands. Um parks
[13:24] is included in that as well. 230 lots
with an average lot size of 17,300
[13:30] square ft.
Um this next slide that has it has red
[13:35] and blue on there. Um has lot size
details. Probably one of the more
[13:39] important slides. So, um, as we'll
discuss a little bit more in detail
[13:44] later, there's a large demand for
working middle class homes in Harrison
[13:50] County, especially in the unincorporated
county. This current site plan will
[13:53] allow for multiple different price
points. We have smaller lots, it'll be
[13:57] obviously a little cheaper, and then the
larger lots a little bit more expensive.
[14:01] Um, in the blue area, we have home
prices starting at $250,000. Obviously,
[14:06] all these are just estimates um for now,
but this is what the our market research
[14:12] and plan is showing us right now all the
lot sizes exceed the R1 zoning for
[14:19] Harrison County. So even though we
qualify for the uh conservation
[14:24] subdivision according to the UDC we have
to only we have to preserve 10% we're
[14:29] preserving 30%. None of our lots are
smaller than 10,000 square feet or less
[14:33] than 75 foot wide. So we're not taking
advantage of that conservation
[14:37] subdivision. So, we're exceeding it even
though we qualify for it. That makes
[14:42] sense. Um, the red outlined area has
average lot size of approximately a half
[14:49] an acre and are 90 foot wide. Um, the
major thing to point out even with the
[14:53] blue area though is that some of these
lots are even though they're just above
[14:57] the minimum 10,000 square feet, that's
because none of our lots will have
[15:02] wetlands in them. Okay? So, we could
have made those lots larger by just
[15:07] extending that that property line into
the wetlands and saying that they're
[15:11] larger. Um, that's completely legal and
but we've kept the wetlands out of the
[15:16] lot lines to ensure that they will be
owned by the HOA and won't be able to be
[15:21] filled by the residents over time. I
know that's something that has always
[15:24] been important to you guys and has had
issues in the past, but that way with
[15:29] keeping them in the HOA, allow them not
to be filled by residents over time and
[15:34] affect the natural drainage of the area.
And just pay attention to the red and
[15:39] blue area. The red area has big bigger
lots. The uh blue area has somewhat
[15:43] smaller lots. Um park areas. So we have
two main park areas. There's some other
[15:50] areas that can could be utilized for
parks, too. The park areas are very
[15:54] important to building a community and
making sure that children and adults uh
[15:58] have gathering places and places to
play. There are two areas that will be
[16:04] internally connected to the left and
right side of the subdivision to allow
[16:08] for walkability. Um, and we've included
some conceptual designs of these other
[16:13] park areas you can see around there. Um
these can't be finalized until we have
[16:18] full engineering and have a home builder
selected, but we've done very similar
[16:22] parks in other subdivisions and they've
done very well. Um including that lake
[16:26] one we have a development in Gulport
that has been really well received with
[16:31] the walking trail. Um as far as
infrastructure, there's water and sewer
[16:36] along Weston Road and we do have a will
server letter for that. There's a fire
[16:40] station that's right on the other side
of the uh of the school and police and
[16:45] other emergency services are available
as well. Education obviously we're right
[16:50] next to Westworth Elementary and Middle
School and I'll mention again the
[16:55] environmental impact. We have less than
a half an acre of wetland impacts on
[16:59] this whole site. So 150 acres with less
than a half an acre of wetland impacts
[17:03] is is pretty huge. Um it's a lot better
than the previous plan that was here.
[17:08] And one of the main reasons we even have
a half an acre of wetland impacts is
[17:12] because we're making sure that the lots
do not have any remaining wetlands on
[17:17] there, so they can't be buil filled at a
later date.
[17:22] Um, as far as traffic and accessibility,
there's a lot of uh discussion. Next
[17:26] couple slides are going to go on some
things that were at the planning
[17:28] commission, but there's a lot of
discussion at the planning commission
[17:31] about traffic and accessibility. Um, two
things. One, I think the best thing for
[17:37] us to do is to get with engineering.
They're the ones who determine as far as
[17:41] traffic and number one, what we could or
couldn't do in a rideway and what's
[17:45] needed for the subdivision to ensure
track traffic is good. And we commit to
[17:50] doing what they recommend. So, if the
traffic studies needed, we could do
[17:55] that. if the uh and if we can just work
with Jackie and her group, they do a
[17:59] great job and we can determine what's
needed for this subdivision to ensure
[18:03] that traffic flows properly. I will say
one thing that came up the meeting and
[18:08] I'm kind of bewildered by this, but the
the tra there's no turning lane going
[18:15] into Westworth Elementary and Middle
School. So, if we think that there's a
[18:21] one going into here is needed, why isn't
there one in front of the middle school
[18:25] and elementary school? Cuz you want to
talk about everybody coming to a
[18:29] location at the exact same time every
day and leaving at the exact same time,
[18:32] that would be at a school and there is
no turning lane there currently. So,
[18:37] either it's not needed or enough people
[clears throat] haven't complained about
[18:40] it to get one put in, right? Um, I don't
think 230 lots is going to change that
[18:45] compared to a middle school and an
elementary school all getting up at the
[18:48] same time in and out at the same time.
Um, we preserve 30oot green space along
[18:54] the front in case the county ever needs
to widen outside of the current right
[18:58] away. They wouldn't have to imminent
domain any homes. Um, connectivity again
[19:03] we have walk to ensure walkability.
And for emergency access, we have a loop
[19:09] in this road and we have internet
connectivity with walking trails um
[19:14] around parks and the mailbox.
Um the next slide was about the G1 and
[19:21] G2 G corridor.
So this was a huge discussion
[19:27] at the uh planning commission as well
and
[19:31] whether it was in a G1 or G2. And I
guess I my first contention is that
[19:37] number one I think it's irrelevant. Um I
think this property was already zoned
[19:45] and
let's see sorry first contingent that
[19:49] it's irrelevant. So the same year that
those neighborhood plans came out from
[19:53] the comprehensive plan so associate comp
plan comprehensive plan and all the rest
[20:00] of them. This property was actually
reszoned R1 that exact same year. So
[20:07] whether it is or wasn't, I think, this
is my personal belief, has no basis in
[20:11] opinion or or in fact of many or
whatever, but I believe that they
[20:17] realize they made a mistake cuz why
would anybody put a G1 next to a
[20:22] elementary and middle school with G1
across the street of it all the way to
[20:28] uh what is it? um social road and not
have it on directly abuing the middle of
[20:35] elementary school. But the exact same
year that those plans came out, they
[20:39] reszone this property and all the
surrounding property almost two social
[20:44] road are one right um
exact same year they res
[20:51] can't talk. We can't no ma'am. No,
>> there'll be a turn for you. Not right
[20:55] now.
>> Yes, sir.
[20:58] Um,
I guess I'll address that. So, the plans
[21:02] came out, the community plans. It says
April 2007. This property was reszoned
[21:07] in 2007. So, I don't know what else to
provide for evidence as far as that's
[21:12] concerned. Um, however, I do want to
defend myself briefly in this
[21:17] presentation. Um, as the opposition
said, our presentation was full of lies.
[21:23] Um, number one, the property is split
between the G1 and G2 growth cor. So,
[21:28] part of our property is in G1, part of
it's in G2. Number two, we didn't find
[21:33] this out until after the presentation.
Even members of the planning commission
[21:36] staff believe it was all in G2 at the
time of the meeting. Number three, these
[21:40] maps are difficult to zoom in at a
granular level to determine exactly
[21:44] where [clears throat] to where the
property is. And to be honest, I don't
[21:47] think that's by accident. I don't think
it's supposed to be exact. Um, and
[21:53] number four, uh, there was a
subdivision, Liberty Ridge, that's I
[21:58] already talked about that's just on the
northeast side of where we're talking
[22:00] about right now. It's part of that R1.
Um, and it was recently approved for 90
[22:05] foot wide lots facing Westworth and Road
that are approximately half an acre,
[22:09] just like some of our developments.
Um, I did have a video and my fault
[22:15] completely for not having it to show you
guys like kind of a Google Earth moving
[22:20] from Highway 49 all the way to this
property and show you all the
[22:24] residential that's um that's surrounding
there, but I kind of already said it a
[22:30] little bit earlier. I mean, there's
hundreds of single family residential
[22:35] lots located directly across the street
and all the way to Old 49.
[22:42] Um there are some recently approved
subdivisions. Most of these you can look
[22:46] at it, but most of these are either
smaller than ours um or the same size.
[22:51] There's even a commercial part of this
property that there's been so much
[22:55] growth and there's so many residential
subdivisions and neighborhood residents
[23:00] that there's not there's a Dollar
General that got located on the
[23:04] northeast corner of our or northwest
corner of our property. And there's
[23:08] actually um a family dollar that's right
down the street. There's so much
[23:12] residential here, but you have a Dollar
General and a Family Dollar that's in
[23:16] the area.
Um as far as market analysis is
[23:21] concerned, I'm not going to spend a lot
of time on this um because it really
[23:24] isn't relevant
to today's conversation because we don't
[23:28] have to prove a public need for this
hearing. Um, but as you can see, there
[23:33] is a clear public need for homes between
200 and $300,000
[23:39] in order to buy 10. Um, so there's a 2.1
month supply of inventory and the
[23:46] average days on market is 45 days and
the median days on market is 19 days.
[23:52] And the only reason I bring it up is for
importance is because our 75 foot wide
[23:57] lots are designed to be in that price
point between 200 and $300,000 where
[24:02] there is the highest demand for these
lots. Um I want to say as well because
[24:08] there's some conflicting information
that the opposition brought up. These
[24:11] are not real numbers from realtor.com
or trulia Brazil. These are from the
[24:16] Mississippi G Coast MLS. Okay. directly
pulled from there right before our
[24:21] hearing. They're not from an arbitrary
source. And I'm not saying they're not
[24:25] legitimate. I'm just saying this is
directly from our Mississippi G Coast
[24:28] MLS.
As far as economic welfare and value, um
[24:34] the average price point for homes within
a 2-m radius of this site is 214,000.
[24:40] Our base price starts at $250,000.
And um [music] therefore, of course,
[24:46] it's definitely not going to be a
detriment to the economic welfare of the
[24:50] community. And I'm going to let Andy um
discuss our various requests.
[24:57] » Hey, state your name and address for me,
please.
[24:59] » Sure. Andy, 515 Hard Road, Ocean
Springs, Mississippi. Uh I'll be doing
[25:04] the engineering on this project and talk
quickly about the variance.
[25:08] So the variance request is if you are
familiar with your type one, type two,
[25:12] type three subdivisions. Uh type two is
simply you have water typically you
[25:19] would have a septic. We would not. We
would have dedicated sewer uh gravity
[25:22] sewer system in there but uh type one
tends to have curbon gutter with pipe
[25:27] drainage and type two tends to allow
[music] for open ditches. So that's what
[25:30] we're requesting is the open ditch for
90 foot lots. Um, we're requesting this
[25:37] based on the physical characteristics of
the natural drainage associated with
[25:41] this site. If y'all are on this sheet
right here, and again, apologies, we
[25:45] don't have the the TV, but that red line
kind of following the back of the 90 ft
[25:51] lots, that's a natural ridge line on our
property. And you can see that it kind
[25:55] of favors I'm going to call it the
one-/ird mark to where everything that
[25:59] falls west is a little bit steeper and
everything that follows east of that
[26:03] ridge you can see has more more room to
drain and it it tends to be a little bit
[26:07] flatter because of that steeper slope on
the west side
[26:13] we feel like or on the east side this
the shallower slopes we feel like curb
[26:16] and gutter is going to work a lot well.
However, that ridge line is going to
[26:19] make it where the 90 foot side would
benefit from open ditches.
[26:24] um having 90 ft wide lots plus having
we're going to expand the rightway to 60
[26:30] on that side instead of the typical 50
and that'll give us the uh room we need
[26:35] to have gentle swailes that are easy to
mow and walk back up. Um because of that
[26:41] natural ridge line having those steeper
slopes on the west side, we feel like
[26:45] forcing the closed underground pipe
system here would require a lot of
[26:49] unnatural earth cuts and more disturbing
and natural wetlands and uh drainways.
[26:55] We're trying to match we're trying to
stay out of the light green area on both
[26:59] of these just because those are your
wetlands. That's where the drainage
[27:02] really happens to get everything off
site.
[27:05] Um on the wetland protection, if you
were to use curb and gutter, you end up
[27:09] concentrating your storm water to single
outfall points, which are higher
[27:13] velocities, which tend to cause a lot
more uh erosion downstream, whereas
[27:17] allowing the vegetated swailes on that
side would be able to slow the water
[27:20] down, let it go where it wants to go
naturally and uh promote infiltration as
[27:25] well.
um on the wetlands. I think Kenneth
[27:28] pointed it out, but we designed it this
way and and are want to use this
[27:32] variance to keep right now we're only
impacting less than 2% of the wetlands
[27:36] on site. So 98 plus% of the wetlands on
site would maintain as as they are
[27:42] today. And then finally, we uh note that
this is consistent with the approved low
[27:48] impact drainage practices of the
surrounding area. Um there are some I
[27:52] believe it's in Edgewood I might have my
subdivisions wrong that are even less
[27:56] than 90 foot that still have open
ditches but then Liberty Ridge that just
[28:00] got approved also is 90 foot with um
open ditches. And the last thing I would
[28:05] just kind of add I don't know that this
is a a hardship but from a public
[28:09] opinion standpoint one thing we hear all
the time is cookie cutting neighborhoods
[28:12] and that's Kenneth pointed out we're
trying to have various lot sizes to
[28:16] avoid that. Um, and then the, you know,
another thing out in the unincorporated
[28:21] county here is more rural feel, which,
uh, that open ditch concept would have a
[28:25] more aesthetic of a, a rural feel. So,
we're trying to keep these subdivisions,
[28:30] while it's one subdivision, we want them
to kind of to to play out as two, if
[28:34] that makes any sense. And that's all I
have. Dave wanted to speak.
[28:42] » All right.
>> Seven minutes.
[28:46] » Yeah. Seven minutes. State your name and
address for me, please.
[28:48] » My name is David Crane and I live at
2405 Broadmore Place in Gulfport. Okay.
[28:53] » And I represent G Coast Design and
Development.
[28:57] So, I'm here helping support their
argument with that this decision of the
[29:03] planning zoning commission should be
reversed and the variance and the
[29:07] conditional use permanent application
should be accepted. Y'all have a
[29:12] Harrison County Uniform Development Code
which establishes eight factors for you
[29:17] to consider when making this decision.
And I'm going to go over the factors and
[29:21] time permitting. Then I'm going to kind
of go over what's in the record that
[29:25] supports each of those factors. And with
regarding the record, there was a
[29:29] question asked just a second ago whether
something was in the record. Both of
[29:32] these matters are matters just like Mr.
Nolan said that are being decided on the
[29:36] record of the planning and zoning
commission. So no new evidence whether
[29:40] it's on our side or their side can come
in. But with regard to the the timing of
[29:45] the zoning and the timing of the um the
adoption of those community plans for
[29:51] the zoning the comprehensive zoning or
comp zoning plan. Those are county
[29:56] documents upon which you can rely
regardless of whether they're in the
[29:59] record. Either way the factors harmony
with zoning with the zoning code and the
[30:05] comprehensive plan. So that's I'm going
to go ahead and address that one because
[30:10] there was some discussion about it being
G1. It is obviously R1. So it definitely
[30:15] fits within the zoning code. Um it with
regard to whether it's G1 or G2 as Mr.
[30:22] Jones said, it's really not relevant at
this time because at the same time y'all
[30:27] adopted those neighborhood um plans, you
also chose to zone this as R1. So it's
[30:34] already R1. and the the the the
subdivision you approve at 780 houses
[30:41] versus 230.
So we're pro promoting a subdivision
[30:47] that's a lot smaller than the one that
was previously approved. And so and even
[30:53] then G1 still allows for control growth
and as Mr. Jones said this is a
[30:58] conservation subdivision. It qualifies
as a conservation subdivision and it has
[31:02] 30 foot buffers on either side. So it's
control growth that would easily fit
[31:06] within the G1 concept. So with regard
the second factor is compliant with
[31:11] district and development standards.
The third is neighborhood character and
[31:15] adverse effect. The fourth is adequate
public facilities and services. The
[31:21] fifth is economic welfare.
Sixth is no compat incompatible
[31:26] nuisance. Seven is vehicular approaches
and interference with surrounding
[31:30] traffic. And finally, eight is property
values in the immediate vicinity. So
[31:35] with regard to compliance with
development standards, the proposed use
[31:39] is a single family subdivision and
already existing R1 property, 230 lots
[31:44] on 150 acres. It's about 17,300 ft and
30% common area. Applicated applicants
[31:52] already stated that no lot is under 75
ft wide and it's 10,000 square ft. the
[31:57] smallest about 1,200 square ft and
that's in the record. Residential uses
[32:03] with regard to the neighborhood
character. Again, I can't stress this
[32:07] enough. This is already an R1
neighborhood. Residential uses are
[32:11] directly across West Warm Road and
elsewhere. School property above
[32:16] [snorts] the site. Liberty Ridge was
just approved for the 24 lot subdivision
[32:20] and recent plan includes our plan
includes parks and common areas
[32:25] including wetland buffers on two sides
and a 50ft southern buffer.
[32:30] With regard to adequate public
facilities and services, Jones has
[32:34] already testified that water and sewer
exist along West Road. They've been
[32:38] given a a well served letter and the
police and emergency services are
[32:43] available. Riverbend is the one who
provided the well served letter with
[32:47] regard to the applicant to economic
welfare.
[32:51] He's giving you price ranges of $200,000
to $300,000 homes that will at the
[32:58] hearing below
that was presented data that that was
[33:03] showing 2.1 month absorption of homes
within the $200 to $300,000
[33:09] um price range. So these homes are going
to fit within that and probably will
[33:13] sell quickly.
With regard to no incompatible nuisance,
[33:20] there is no incompatible nuisance and I
don't think that there really has been
[33:23] an argument about that except the
opposition below argue that residential
[33:27] development would conflict with farms,
livestocks, etc. But this is single use
[33:32] family residential on R1 property that
again has already been zoned. So it's
[33:37] you got to measure whether it's an
incompatible nuisance within its
[33:40] existing zoning and the existing zoning
is our one vehicular approaches
[33:45] interference of surrounded traffic. Well
Mr. Jones just mentioned there going to
[33:50] be two entrances. There's a 30 foot
green space in case it's ever needed.
[33:54] And he's stipulated the low end today
that he's going to work with county
[33:59] engineer to work work on any traffic
issues. And the property values in the
[34:04] immediate vicinity.
Again, these are 250,000 to 300,000
[34:09] $10,000 homes. There's going to be a
buffer area and there's not going to be
[34:13] anything. There's no proof that this is
going to somehow diminish those property
[34:16] values.
And that's all I have unless you have
[34:20] questions. [clears throat]
Anyone have any questions?
[34:25] » Okay. How much time we have left here?
>> 1 minute 43 seconds.
[34:29] » Okay.
>> Y'all y'all done? Okay.
[34:34] » All right.
[34:38] » How many on the opposition side do I
have that are that want to speak? Will
[34:44] there be a chance for just neighbors,
people just of the community to see?
[34:48] » Raise your hand now.
>> Okay. I wasn't sure.
[34:50] » Okay. One, two, three, four, five, six.
>> You want to split it?
[34:58] » 30 minutes. However you want to split it
up.
[35:00] » However you want to split it up time.
[35:08] » I thought you said we only
>> 30 minutes total. side can break it up
[35:13] however you would like.
[35:22] » If you'll state your name and address
for me, please.
[35:24] » Yes, it's Lyn Anne Stiller.
>> 19120
[35:30] Gaylord Road,
Mississippi
[35:34] is my property.
>> Okay.
[35:40] Sorry for the objection. Earlier I was
my first time.
[35:52] » Yes, ma'am. You can start whenever
you're ready.
[35:55] » So, I am requesting that the board of
supervisors uphold the zoning commission
[36:00] correct and legal sound decision. The
zoning commission looked at the facts
[36:03] and upheld our ordinances. A 230 home
subdivision is a massive jump. That is
[36:09] not slow growth. I brought with me today
some documentation that was presented at
[36:13] the zoning hearing. At any time, if your
packet does not contain one of these
[36:16] documents, I'll be happy to pass it to
you. I want to mention that there were
[36:21] over 375 opposition letters and 378
verified online signatures that were
[36:27] printed per request of the zoning
commission. So, that should be on file.
[36:32] I have a map from the Harrison County
comprehensive plan showing the subject
[36:35] property being listed as G1 growth
factor. Um, in reference to the
[36:39] applications, there's a little bit of
pattern difference when you look at the
[36:44] tax records, how they wrote G1 and O2
and G2 and O2. The only one that is
[36:49] missing the handwriting is the one
that's on the uh main packet that covers
[36:53] the larger section that's act that's
asking for the conditional use. So
[36:57] that's why I felt like it might have
been a little intentional since out of
[37:00] four papers, one of them was missing the
writing. Then the map, I understand it
[37:04] is hard to read, but if you look at
here,
[37:09] um, let me get the paper and hand that
out to you.
[37:15] » Was this was this paperwork that was at
the hearing?
[37:18] » Yes, sir. Do you have access to that
now? Um, we do have, if you can show,
[37:23] well, we do have
>> There's a lot of attachments here.
[37:28] » What would be named? I'm sorry. We have
so many attachments. What are you
[37:31] referring to?
>> This is from the uh comprehensive plan.
[37:34] This is the growth sector map from the
comprehensive plan.
[37:37] » So, if you look here, this is going to
be South Gaylord Road and this is the
[37:41] creek that floods uh Houston Lader Road
and you can reference that in some of
[37:46] the printouts that I gave you from the
sheriff's department Facebook page. Uh
[37:50] we had like a couple weeks there of a
lot of flooding and Houston ladder is
[37:53] one of them that floods often from this
particular creek. The subject property
[37:57] is between this main creek right here
and um I'm sorry
[38:04] it's one over. I looked at it wrong.
It's one over. It's where is it?
[38:16] » It's the creek on this side. Anyway,
[clears throat]
[38:20] you can look and see that this is going
to be in a G1. And if you pull the
[38:24] application, you can see on the tax
record where they wrote G1 and G2
[38:28] applications.
Does someone want to bring me the
[38:32] applications up? They're in the in the
brown bag. I'll give those to you in
[38:37] just a moment when they get up here.
All right. If you look at the map, you
[38:41] can we already saw that. You should have
a list of two flooded streets that were
[38:45] printed from articles from the sheriff's
department Facebook page. There's more
[38:49] only printed and the community
surrounding this property sustained a
[38:52] lot of damage.
>> They're in the backup,
[38:56] » sir.
>> Yeah, we have
[39:00] to utilize my time.
>> No, we already
[39:04] » Okay. If you look on the tax records,
some of the pages have G1 and G2 written
[39:09] on them, and uh some of them don't.
So, this one is the 157. It's got the
[39:18] smaller parcel that says G2 and O2, but
then the larger parcel has no writing.
[39:26] » That's in the tax collector's record.
>> Yes. I I probably said the wrong name.
[39:30] » Oh, no, no, you're fine. I was just
checking my
[39:32] » and then you look at the condition the
uh variance application. Now look, I
[39:36] don't think these are the moment. Don't
get me wrong. I'm just saying that in
[39:43] the documentation,
[39:47] » if you look at the variance with just
the second application
[39:51] in the tax records, the writing is in
both.
[39:54] [snorts]
>> You see what I'm saying? See that same
[39:57] handwriting is in both. We highlighted
that there
[40:00] » when we discovered that it was labeled
G1.
[40:05] You have a minute unless somebody wants
to donate you their time.
[40:08] » Would somebody like to donate some time?
I'll give you one of my minutes. Okay.
[40:14] » Um
[40:17] anyway, so the if you if you look at the
topographical map I provided, you'll see
[40:22] the massive amount of wetlands with two
creeks on each side. It's absolutely
[40:25] dangerous to alter the course of this
much water with that much elevation
[40:28] change. It's a 30 foot drop. At the same
time, these type of creeks are dependent
[40:33] upon the wershed from the higher
elevations and the water table. Myself
[40:36] and my neighbors south of me, we depend
on this water with our livestock and our
[40:40] aparies and it's a delicate balance
system. I don't think they fully
[40:44] understand what's at stake here. The
lowerlying areas have been utilized has
[40:48] been utilizing the water historically
and any changes would change the
[40:51] conditions of the lives. The property
has an elevation change complicate
[40:55] compacted ground that has a recipe for
disastrous conditions during rainfall.
[40:59] This development is trying to cluster
the houses on the ridge while trying to
[41:03] avoid wetlands and adding many water
retention ponds trying to manage the
[41:07] watershed if they have to ask for a
variance to manage the water while
[41:11] trying to cut cost and cluster the homes
on the ridge and this pro proves this
[41:14] development does not work. The
topographical nature of the subject
[41:17] property is not like the 1998 in the
2002 subdivision across the street.
[41:23] So from the Harrison County
comprehensive plan under the promote
[41:27] growth as specified in the designated
zones and future land map in action
[41:31] seven revoke resing approval if progress
is not made on developments within two
[41:35] years. This property should have been
reverted back to agricultural
[41:39] postdevelopmental fa failure and
historically it has always been
[41:42] agriculture as it was paper company land
and should have been returned
[41:46] [clears throat] to that. Currently,
there are over 450 acres of the original
[41:50] 7880
that are agricultural and have been
[41:53] zoned agricultural within the last three
years.
[41:57] » Actually,
>> yes, sir.
[41:59] » I only I only need two minutes.
>> Okay.
[42:02] » So, my time a minute.
>> Okay. So, you've got another six
[42:07] minutes.
>> So, I want to correct that. My 41 acres
[42:10] is agricultural.
[42:14] » It has already been zoned. The Fazios
have purchased over 400 acres and it is
[42:19] on the agenda in about I don't know 10
days or so or eight days to be on
[42:24] agricultural for their farm. So you have
a 230 acre subdivision that recently the
[42:30] growth has gone into an agricultural way
and if you take the standards of the
[42:35] zoning commission where they consider
the impact of uh a subdivision the
[42:40] letters that get mailed out that's their
impact right that's going to be more of
[42:44] an R1 and agricultural district not an
R2 as they claim and I argue to say that
[42:51] G1 is a slow growth not a rapid growth
and a 23 30 pound subdivision. It is a
[42:56] very rapid growth, very impactful on a
small rural road next to a school zone.
[43:02] I don't I don't care what anybody says.
[clears throat] I believe that if you
[43:05] put an influx of 800 or more cars uh
less than a mile from a school zone on a
[43:11] small road that has a 15 mph speed limit
during working hours that it's already a
[43:18] heavy burden. Now, if you speak to the
residents, it's it's going to be
[43:21] catastrophic. And that's not even
including natural disasters, evacuation
[43:25] routes, road maintenance, anything like
that. Um,
[43:31] a 230 acre home is a monstrous
subdivision. Even we do have a lot of
[43:36] growth out there and it's happening fast
and the people that live there and have
[43:40] lived there are trying to absorb this
change and it is a stress. It is a
[43:43] stress on them. If you think about four
years, how long it's going to take for
[43:48] 230 homes to be built, for them to be
running bulldozers and have trucks
[43:52] coming in and out day after day for
years, that's the noise that we're going
[43:56] to be hearing. Pete, I don't know if
you've ever sat in your yard and heard
[43:58] beep beep beep every single day. I mean,
just the developments and look, I bought
[44:03] 41 acres in the middle of the 700 and I
still hear it. So, can imagine what is
[44:09] going to impact the whole area like
[cough] that. [clears throat] I'm not
[44:12] against development. I just think that
things need to be done a little bit
[44:16] differently. Okay, I just want to say
that. Um, so you want to say, let's see,
[44:24] there is a Ray Dalio, if I said his name
correctly. I don't know if anybody's
[44:29] ever heard of him. He's the founder of a
very successful Bridgewater hedge fund.
[44:33] He's been in the top of the Forbes list
and donates hundreds of millions to
[44:37] charities and stuff every year. He wrote
a famous econom he's he's a famous
[44:41] economic author and who has
[cough and clears throat]
[44:43] anyway um he has a bra he has a quote
called embrace reality and deal with it.
[44:49] Interesting fact about Ry is that he
isn't fond of developments and he finds
[44:53] them risky. This is a time for change
towards more preservation and
[44:57] restorative measures. We are not against
development but development needs to
[45:02] look different. This application is weak
and contains a lot of misinformation. If
[45:07] you go to page 18, line one, where they
say, but again, we are early and this is
[45:12] just ballpark or line seven, I can
definitely go with smaller lots and make
[45:17] them smaller. Page 22, what is your
special circumstances? This is what the
[45:21] commission is asking. You've got to
satisfy four needs. The response on
[45:26] record is I think the special
circumstances is dot dot dot. I mean,
[45:30] obviously anytime dot dot dot and that's
the problem with variances. That's the
[45:35] response. I don't I don't have any
information to go off that page 23.
[45:39] Yeah, sorry I made that change. I guess
I didn't put that in here referring to
[45:44] how many streets, but commissioner he
said she saw it somewhere and and John
[45:48] stated he would agree. Now they're
talking about three roads going in and
[45:51] out and that's great. I'm glad they're
talking about that because the traffic
[45:54] is is going to be a serious concern. Um
the commission had concerned about an
[45:59] influx of 800 cars with 400 cars going
to work between 7:30 and 8. Um,
[46:07] Mr. Jones made a statement that they
would not all be going at the same time.
[46:11] There's real no studies or anything done
to see what the impact on the
[46:14] infrastructure for this will be.
Um,
[46:20] I mentioned something about
[clears throat] the wetlands that people
[46:25] don't typically walk as a park in
wetlands and Mr. Andy who um came up and
[46:31] said, "Well, we have some ponds. Um,
it's not a marsh, but they're wet ponds,
[46:35] and the people do enjoy those. Um, I
would like to dispute Mr. Jones's market
[46:41] analysis. When you pull information from
the MLS, that is an exclusive closed
[46:48] listing service. And I don't feel that
it creates an accurate measure for the
[46:54] whole market because there is more
things available out there than what's
[46:56] just in an exclusive MLS listing. I
would beg to see something from a
[47:02] unbiased third party um [clears throat]
study or from someone who's not Dr.
[47:07] Horton or a company that's owned by
[snorts]
[47:10] an alliance, someone from the alliance
group or owners of developments.
[47:15] Um I know you hear the same voice of all
of these neighbors are upset. The
[47:20] developers, they accept it. the
developers made statements about so we
[47:25] already went over the R1 and R2 and they
did a generalized statement that there
[47:29] is a lot of R2 in the area that I've
already talked about that
[47:35] so developers like to say change or or
be changed and it's profound I find that
[47:40] there is middle ground there has to be a
balance I'm telling you right now money
[47:43] does not care about the ecological
balance that humans do and our life
[47:47] depends on it unless you live in a cave
you know there are more restorative
[47:51] measures is being done globally. This is
where the market is going. We're on the
[47:55] brink of change on the Mississippi coast
forever. Do you want to be remembered
[48:00] for passing all the new developments
with no change towards real restorative
[48:05] preservation measures? [clears throat]
Imagine what you can do as leaders of
[48:08] this community. And I'm excited to see
it happen. But no, but
[48:13] » your 12 minutes has expired.
>> Okay. If anybody has any time left over,
[48:18] I'll finish. You'll have five minutes at
the end for ma'am.
[48:26] » Oh no, the others. I apologize.
[48:33] [clears throat]
[48:38] » Dave, if you'll just state your name and
address for us.
[48:40] » Jennifer Morin, 21,000 Houston Lader
Road. I'm also a PE teacher at Lyman
[48:45] Elementary. Yes. Social.
>> Okay. Uh like many families who choose
[48:49] to live in the Westland community, I
live here because of its rural
[48:52] character, open farmland, agricultural
herit heritage, and peaceful way of
[48:57] life. I was actually born and raised on
the property that is on the south side
[49:00] of this property of the development. Um
a family has lived here since 1800s. The
[49:05] proposed 230 home subdivision is
completely upscale with the surrounding
[49:09] area and would permanently change the
character of our community, our
[49:13] community.
um the developers and realtors are
[49:17] strictly in it for the money. Whereas
all of us land owners [clears throat]
[49:20] surrounding the development has all been
built on blood, sweat, and tears. They
[49:24] can't relate because they live on 23
acres or 0.25 acres. They don't
[49:28] understand hundreds of acres that you've
farmed for all these years. Uh look at
[49:35] all the flooding we had a month or so
ago. It's because they're shoving these
[49:39] developments between creeks, rivers, and
wetlands. These developments do nothing
[49:42] to improve our community. All they do is
hinder it. They don't care about the
[49:47] farms and the runoffs that will hurt our
farmlands, including our livestock and
[49:51] ponds. And honestly, it's no fault on
them because they simply don't
[49:54] understand what it's like to maintain
hundreds of acres for us that live out
[49:58] there. Just last week, I drove through
the development between Mark West Road
[50:02] and Old Highway 49, and those roads were
already flooding. They're not even built
[50:07] on yet, and they're flooding already.
We've got to stop these developments in
[50:11] the county that's affecting our country
way of life and flooding homes. Will
[50:15] Poston matter of fact when the storming
hap I mean when that storm happened he
[50:20] was stuck on one side of the prop on the
road couldn't even get to his own
[50:24] property. That's what these developments
are causing. Also there are thousands of
[50:28] homes being developed between Canal
Road, Old Highway 49, Robinwood just to
[50:33] name a few. Although the developer
claims there's a housing shortage, there
[50:37] clearly is not. It's just a shortage to
him and the developers and all that will
[50:42] be building these homes because they're
not the developers are the ones working
[50:46] on these other developments already
approved and being built. 24 acre lot I
[50:50] mean 24 lots that he's been referencing.
That's 200 206 less than what he's
[50:57] trying to put in there. Uh he said he
drove down Westworth but didn't see any
[51:01] kind of you know farm activity of that
sort of thing. drive down Houston
[51:04] Lighter Road, you'll see a lot of the
people that have grown up there their
[51:08] whole lives that are still farming hay,
cow, whatever. Um the concerns are yes,
[51:14] the traffic. Drive out there during
school hours, drive out there afternoon
[51:19] when the schools are let out, sit behind
a bus on Houston Lighter Road trying to
[51:23] get out onto West Jordan Road for 10
minutes or so because the traffic's so
[51:27] backed up. Um Lennis Quavvis Road, the
same thing. the roads, the drainage
[51:32] systems, public service. We're shortage
in all of that even before this growth
[51:37] would be developed. Um they deserve
residents deserve confidence that
[51:42] flooding, road maintenance, and
emergency response will not be
[51:44] negatively impacted. Sewer and water
can't handle what they have after the
[51:48] storm. There were so many uh flood I
mean boil water notices there on Shaw
[51:53] Road and in that River Bend area all up
and down Shaw Road. Uh, this proposal
[51:59] threatens a quiet, safe, familyoriented,
country way of life environment. Once
[52:02] this type of development is approved,
the rural character of our community
[52:06] cannot be restored. Not to mention the
fire department. Yeah, there is a fire
[52:10] station right there. But some friends of
mine live within three miles of that
[52:14] fire station. And years ago, their shop
caught on fire and that station was
[52:19] already out on another call and so were
the ones in Louisiana. They had to call
[52:22] one from uh Keiesler. Needless to say,
their shot burned to the ground with
[52:27] hundreds of thousands of vehicles and
everything in it. As board of
[52:31] supervisors, you know how many houses
have been built in Harrison County
[52:33] [clears throat] lately. But how many new
fire departments have we built? Uh the
[52:38] developer will build this urban sprawl
and he will leave. He will go back to
[52:41] his home near the beach on Second
Street. We will be left to deal with his
[52:45] mess for the rest of our lives. If he
wants these developments, build it
[52:49] elsewhere. You know what about
revitalizing DO or some of these other
[52:54] subdivisions? I know there's not as much
money in it, but it doesn't affect our
[52:58] lives. Uh I respectfully ask the board
of supervisors to deny the Woreram Wood
[53:03] subdivision is currently proposed or
require significant changes that better
[53:07] protect the resident schools
infrastructure. Thank you for your time
[53:10] and your consideration.
[53:16] » My name is Pat Lowry. I live at 13381
Old Highway 49.
[53:21] » Okay.
>> I would like to read something from the
[53:23] core of engineers. There's been a lot
I've read the application. I've read the
[53:27] transcript and I've read the code law u
the code book and there's a lot of
[53:34] discussion in here about wetlands.
Everybody has talked about wetlands.
[53:40] This whole site can be a wetland. And
let me explain. Registered land
[53:46] surveyors are generally not qualified to
determine or identify wetlands on their
[53:51] own. While a licensed surveyor is the
legal authority for mapping property
[53:55] boundaries, identifying a wetland
requires specific training in
[53:59] environmental science, hydraology, and
botany. Determining a wetland requires a
[54:04] specialized process called wetland
delineation.
[54:08] Instead of measuring property line
angles, a professional must prove the
[54:13] presence of three specific environmental
parameters mandated by the core of
[54:17] engineers.
Hydro hydrophic vegetation identifying
[54:22] plants that that exclusively or
primarily grow in water or saturated
[54:27] soil.
hydrate soils. Digging test pits to
[54:31] analyze color and layering which
indicate prolonged periods of flooding
[54:36] or saturation. Wetland hydrarology
finding evidence of ongoing surface
[54:41] water or groundwater saturation. We're
talking wetlands. You're being asked to
[54:47] make a decision, a very important
decision without any delineation on
[54:53] these maps or plats or anything
presented that delineates what is truly
[54:59] a wet wetland. Let me make a quick
point. I have a hill 100 220 yards from
[55:05] my house. The top of that hill is as dry
as a powder house. You put a shovel in
[55:10] the ground, you're going to find water.
That hill is a wetland.
[55:15] » [clears throat]
>> Thank you.
[55:22] » Hi board. I'm Jennifer Taylor. I live at
21171
[55:26] West Rhythm Road. With that being said,
this directly impacts me and my family's
[55:30] way of life and our day-to-day movings.
We currently have to um mitigate around
[55:38] the constant flow of traffic, uh semis,
um dirt trucks, all of those things come
[55:44] up and down in front of our uh home of
residency. I have three children. We
[55:49] can't even at this moment we don't ever
play out front ever just due to traffic.
[55:54] I can't imagine the impact that having
that many more houses on that road is
[55:59] going to affect us. Currently, there's
cleared out an area already for I think
[56:05] 37 is what they told us, acre lots. Um,
it's right there on the bin. There's a
[56:11] lot of traffic already. When the
gentleman talked about the home,
[56:18] uh, like how much it cost unless you're
only taking trailers into effect, there
[56:23] is no way that I completely believe that
the houses up in that area sell for two
[56:27] to 300. not with the acreage that
they're allotted and the size of the
[56:31] homes. So, I'm going to call that one
out right there. Secondly,
[56:37] this is our community. I have elderly
neighbors. I have single mother
[56:42] neighbors who are having a hard time
with their day-to-day life, let alone
[56:47] having the time to come down here and
meet y'all face to face to explain their
[56:52] um positions. I've never been in front
of Fort. I don't even know what I'm
[56:56] supposed to be doing, but I feel like I
need to be the voice for our
[57:01] neighborhood.
>> Um, I'm not against I'm with them. I'm
[57:05] not against
development as it is. Like I understand
[57:10] there is growth, but the development
that is being proposed is something I
[57:17] would see in Gulfport. It's not
something I would see in social. Um,
[57:21] again to piggy back off of Jennifer
is you go up and down canal land and all
[57:28] of that. That looks like exactly what
he's proposing. That's that's all of
[57:32] that area. Drive down west. Go past the
school.
[57:36] » Go past socialure. It's over. Okay.
>> Just venture further out and you'll see
[57:41] that it's very contradictory to the way
that we live.
[57:44] » 9 minutes and 30 seconds.
>> 9 minutes 30 seconds. one. I think I had
[57:48] two other two other people speak.
>> She's taking his time.
[57:52] » She's taking Okay.
[57:57] [snorts and clears throat]
[58:00] » Did you want to speak?
>> I wanted to say
[58:04] » Yes, sir. Please come up. State your
name and address for us, please. For the
[58:07] record.
[58:12] » My name is Richard Smith.
I live at 19621
[58:18] Line Drive.
>> I'm not good at talking.
[58:22] » That's okay. You're doing fine.
>> Uh
[58:26] the biggest concern is y'all saying 230
homes
[58:34] time that time too you close to 500
Westworth road cannot hold.
[58:44] You can ask the sheriff. You come out on
49 and that's about the worst
[58:48] intersection
there is
[58:53] and it needs to be repaired now.
And then we threelane in traffic
[59:01] there.
You need to rebuild that. The second
[59:05] concern is evacuation.
[59:11] Social Louisiana road floods,
Shaw road floods, and old 49 floods.
[59:20] Same river. So you can't go south to get
[clears throat] out of there. What is
[59:26] the proposal to go north?
[59:32] It's
old 49
[59:36] floods in two different areas. And this
last rain, never seen it. I've been up
[59:43] there since 1995.
Westworth on when you come off of 49,
[59:51] you'll go down a big
it just rush in water.
[59:57] That's the only way out. I think
>> y'all need to consider this.
[1:00:12] Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. We're
listening. I was just showing where you
[1:00:14] were talking about on the map
>> where that flood was because I was
[1:00:18] familiar with
>> Can I add that that flood really never
[1:00:20] happened before they started building?
>> No, ma'am. We're just It's his time. If
[1:00:24] he wants to give it to you, he can.
>> We're all
[1:00:28] to keep it the way it should.
>> We all live up there. But evacuation,
[1:00:33] y'all not thinking about. Y'all need to
come up with a plan. Ask your sheriff.
[1:00:39] He has to put the gates out to stop
traffic.
[1:00:43] » I promise you we do think of it. And we
work very closely with our sheriff and
[1:00:46] we have a list of roads. So don't think
we don't think of that.
[1:00:49] » Well, I understand thinking.
>> Does anybody live out there?
[1:00:55] [clears throat]
>> Where are you talking about? Where you
[1:00:58] live at?
>> Well, it's not questioned answer. Yes, I
[1:01:01] have family, you know, Robin Wood or
whatever.
[1:01:06] » Right out there and see how much traffic
there is. It's terrible. [clears throat]
[1:01:12] » Terrible.
>> Thank you. Done. All right. Thank you,
[1:01:15] sir.
>> Thank you, Mr.
[1:01:16] » All right. How much time is left?
>> 6 minutes and 50. All right. Six.
[1:01:20] » I'm trying to be fast. I want everybody
that took their time out today to come.
[1:01:24] I just want to finish this a little bit.
>> Sure. I want to start off to say that
[1:01:28] the subdivision does not meet the eight
factors that they stated earlier. And I
[1:01:32] feel like we've already proven that in a
lot of what myself and uh the other
[1:01:37] citizens have said and what this young
lady said over here. I want to reiterate
[1:01:42] about the flooding happening prior to
the building. Um I stand in line with
[1:01:46] that. And I think that's about it. I
want to finish so everybody else can
[1:01:52] talk. So, I want to say change is
happening and it's not the old
[1:01:55] traditional way of building
subdivisions. We're moving into more
[1:01:57] preservation and restoration. And this
is globally. This is what you see
[1:02:01] everywhere. Everybody is dealing with
this problem and this is the direction
[1:02:04] we're going. We're not regressing back
into the traditional way of just mowing
[1:02:08] things down and and building houses.
There's got to be some change. Um, and I
[1:02:12] think Andy said it best when he said God
is the best engineer. I do have to agree
[1:02:16] with you on that, Andy. I think he's one
of the developers. I think that was a
[1:02:19] beautiful saying. And unless you live
under a rock lately, you see natural
[1:02:22] disasters are happening. The old method
of buying land and clearing it all out
[1:02:26] and building homes and leaving it.
Nothing changes if nothing changes. And
[1:02:30] you sit in the precious seat that holds
the preservation for all of this Gulf
[1:02:34] Coast. You love this place. I know you
do. And I love I know you love all the
[1:02:38] resources. Everybody here probably likes
the seafood, the beach, everything. And
[1:02:42] the people that come here, the
festivals. So, please consider more than
[1:02:46] just pressure from an alliance of of an
exclusive few business owners who are
[1:02:51] only here for monetary purposes. Your
decision today is affecting the quality
[1:02:55] of life for a rural community. The
zoning commission's decision was not
[1:02:59] arbitrary. It was based on substantial
evidence and local guidelines and the
[1:03:03] Mississippi courts have repetitively
ruled that zoning decision is fairly
[1:03:08] debatable. It must be legally sustained
and the zoning commission did its job
[1:03:12] perfectly. and we ask that the board
stand by the county's own rule book and
[1:03:17] protect our infrastructure and deny the
developers appeal.
[1:03:23] » Okay, there's more time. Is there more
time?
[1:03:26] » 4 minutes and 50 seconds.
>> Four minutes.
[1:03:27] » Oh, I'd also like to say that right now
today there's 2200 homes on Zillow.
[1:03:34] Again, we have MLS, we have Zillow. No
third party unviable study that can
[1:03:40] absorb all of that. But that would be
the homes available.
[1:03:44] If any of the citizens that came here
today want us to get some of their voice
[1:03:47] in, I'd like for that. I think he's
doing them in the back as well.
[1:03:51] » That's fine. I just have to alter.
>> Yeah. Yes, ma'am.
[1:03:54] » I understand that. Um, but I also would
like to reiterate as well when he
[1:03:58] mentioned the turning lanes for West
that would be phenomenal. So, if you
[1:04:02] guys could get some type of road
structure for that area. I know we're
[1:04:08] rural. I know we don't bring as much tax
revenue as the city does, but if we're
[1:04:13] planning on developing and moving and
grooving, like we definitely need some
[1:04:17] relief in that aspect and the schooling
as well. I know many of the teachers
[1:04:21] » Yes, ma'am. We we have nothing to do
with the schools.
[1:04:23] » I'm just saying like that all takes into
effect when you're adding homes with
[1:04:27] people.
>> Yes, ma'am.
[1:04:29] » All right. How much time is left?
>> Four minutes.
[1:04:31] » Okay. You have four minutes. Please
state your name and address. My
[1:04:34] » name is Bill Gilbert. live 18910 West
Worker Road, Central Mississippi.
[1:04:39] » Yes, sir.
>> And I guess just as a citizen here who
[1:04:42] has already been impacted somewhat by
some previous developments, you know,
[1:04:47] I'm I'm someone that had to get rid of
some cows and I hear these statements
[1:04:51] made about you up and down West Broken
Road and you don't see any cows or
[1:04:56] anything. That's because some of the
previous developments have already
[1:05:00] knocked you out. Okay? And if you go
look at 049 right now, some of the other
[1:05:05] subdivisions that been going in there,
every week they got traffic blocked off
[1:05:09] down there doing the big 18 wheelers
that's coming down through there tearing
[1:05:13] the roads up and they just put little
patch jobs in there. If I go up and down
[1:05:17] my drive road now in West Wortham,
there's all kind of four-wheelers, golf
[1:05:21] carts, people on bikes and they're and
they're just constantly going up and
[1:05:26] down through there. They're not stopped.
If I got cows out there on Westworth
[1:05:30] Road, I got a bunch of people coming
from these previous developments and
[1:05:34] their kids are climbing on the fences
and I try to go down there and I say,
[1:05:37] "Look, I understand if you want to see
the cows." You can't have your kids
[1:05:41] climbing on the fences. The first thing
I hear is, "Well, they're just kids."
[1:05:45] Well, you're just an adult. They can't
tear up my stuff wanting to look at
[1:05:50] something else. The other thing is all
the trash that comes off these trucks
[1:05:54] and all it blows out in the hay fields.
Okay, I got to walk out and pick all
[1:05:58] that stuff up. You know, if I see the uh
I hear all these people wanting to put
[1:06:06] this on us, but you know where they
live? Much of them live down in Guffford
[1:06:10] engaged subdivisions. Okay, we moved out
there and want to live in a rural area
[1:06:14] for a reason. We don't want all the
traffic. We don't want all these
[1:06:18] subdivisions out there. The
infrastructure can't handle it. If you
[1:06:21] try to get out now on West Worth Road at
7 or so in the morning, want to go
[1:06:26] somewhere and I understand school
traffic, you got to have my kids went to
[1:06:29] Westworth school first year it opened.
They were there. But it's something now
[1:06:33] that we've reached
a boiling point. Something needs to be
[1:06:38] done to the infrastructure. Something
needs to be done to the roads.
[1:06:43] And
you know, I just see this as
[1:06:48] I know I'm going to offend some people,
but money, it all boils down to money.
[1:06:55] And if you want it down in your area,
that's good. But I feel like as us
[1:06:58] citizens and social, we really don't
care for it.
[1:07:02] » Thank you, sir.
How much time's left?
[1:07:07] » Anyone want Steve?
[1:07:15] got a minute and a half. Okay.
>> One thing that I would like to reiterate
[1:07:19] is the amount of water that's going to
come off of here.
[1:07:22] » A tremendous amount. What was what was
presented in the first case was
[1:07:28] topographical map. But what was not
mentioned is that there's a up to a 30
[1:07:33] foot elevation change from the
construction site to where the streams
[1:07:39] are. That's a tremendous amount of
runoff that's going into that those
[1:07:44] areas. In the presentation, Mr. Jones
said that those areas would not be
[1:07:50] affected. How can it not affect it? This
is my experience with hydraology
[1:07:55] management. These areas are going to
flood and those open ditches are not
[1:08:01] going to be able to be maintained and
they're going to become eyes. So again,
[1:08:07] you're being asked to to make a decision
on wetlands when the wetlands have not
[1:08:13] been delineated by a professional. You
don't know by these plats, designs,
[1:08:20] uh all these fancy drawings and stuff.
The wetlands have not been delineated.
[1:08:25] And because of that, none of these are
correct. That whole site could be a wet.
[1:08:32] Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[1:08:36] Okay, we have time for rebuttal. How
much? Got five five minutes on a
[1:08:40] rebuttal.
[1:08:53] » Yes, sir. All right. Uh, I want to
address Mr. Lowry's comment first. Um,
[1:08:58] we absolutely do have a well
insulination done by ecological asset
[1:09:02] management. already been submitted to
the core been done by a professional. Um
[1:09:07] the core actually has our delineation
and our application from permit of the
[1:09:11] fill of a half an acre. Um we have to do
things by law. I mean we have to dial
[1:09:16] the eyes and cross the tees. They'll put
me under the jail without impact well
[1:09:21] without a permit. So um
a lot of discussion was discussed about
[1:09:27] you know they're not against development
build it elsewhere. And honestly guys, I
[1:09:33] mean, if we can't all agree that where
or where else should development be
[1:09:40] besides next to an elementary and middle
school
[1:09:44] on a property that's already been zoned
R1 with hundreds of homes across the
[1:09:50] street on where where the developer has
decided that they're going to preserve a
[1:09:55] third of the property, not in fact, but
less than a half an acre of they're
[1:10:00] exceeding meeting all of the R1
requirements. What else? What else do
[1:10:05] you What else do we want? Where else can
those developments go? I mean, I I can't
[1:10:11] imagine another place that makes more
sense to have a residential development
[1:10:17] than next door to an elementary and
middle school that's already zoned that
[1:10:21] has all the things that I discussed. Um,
as far as traffic, I mean, listen, I
[1:10:28] understand there probably are some
issues out there. We will do everything
[1:10:32] with work with engineering. If they need
a traffic study, we will provide one. If
[1:10:36] they recommend turn lane, we'll provide
one. We will work with them. That's
[1:10:40] engineering's job. That's who y'all pay
to work with us on this stuff. And we
[1:10:45] will commit to doing what they require.
Okay. Um I can't help highway 49, all
[1:10:51] 49, those kind of things. I can't help
with his ingress and eress of our
[1:10:55] subdivision. And um you know most of the
things they talked about were very
[1:11:01] speculative. I'm not sure MLS is
definitely an independent source. I
[1:11:06] think you have your real estate license.
You know understand that MLS is
[1:11:10] definitely or you maybe
>> I did it for six months to sell my own
[1:11:13] personal properties to save commission
but I do not have my realtor's license
[1:11:17] for the record.
>> Okay. I do know that uh Zillow
[1:11:21] I've looked at the same thing that
they're talking about. The 2200 homes
[1:11:24] includes everything. It includes lots
and land. It includes commercial
[1:11:29] listings. It includes um apartments for
lease. It includes residential for
[1:11:36] lease. Everything that's the 2200 homes
that are stand for sale. MLS is MLS. It
[1:11:42] is a independent source. It is not from
me. It is not from anybody else. as an
[1:11:46] independent source. Um, and the G1
versus G2 debate, again, I say it's
[1:11:55] irrelevant. If you don't think it's
irrelevant, property is split between G1
[1:11:59] and G2. Part of it's in G2, part of it's
in G1, and it's irrelevant because it's
[1:12:04] already R1. Um, and that's really all I
have as far as a rebuttal. Um, flooding
[1:12:12] and drainage. Andy, you want to kind of
talk about that real quick? I think the
[1:12:17] biggest thing is we are putting
>> I don't have just a whole lot to add. U
[1:12:22] the one thing that they mentioned, you
know, engineering hasn't fully started
[1:12:26] yet. Now, I'm a little bit ahead of the
game. I've gotten some ideas. We've
[1:12:29] located some ponds, but if we can't
fully engineer a site when we don't know
[1:12:34] what's going to be allowed to be built
on the site. So, to my comment about
[1:12:38] God's better engineer than me, I
absolutely believe it. He put two major
[1:12:42] drainageways on both sides and I don't
want to touch the ones that he built.
[1:12:45] So, we're staying out of those. That's
why we're only put impacting so many
[1:12:48] wetlands. You know, we are favoring the
ridge. They said we were clustering the
[1:12:53] houses to avoid it, but no, you just
we're we're putting the houses on the
[1:12:56] ridge because it doesn't make sense to
put them in a bottom in a in a in a
[1:13:00] wooded bottom. So, we will design it. We
have worked with G Engineering Group on
[1:13:05] several projects. We've had a good track
record with them on this. We do like to
[1:13:09] put more ponds than maybe the some other
developers just because we feel like you
[1:13:14] want to keep low points low and have a
pond there instead. Um that ties into
[1:13:18] why we want the open ditches is that
gives us more release points to have
[1:13:21] more uh areas in the back that will slow
the water before it gets into those
[1:13:25] natural drainage ways. [clears throat]
The main thing I want to highlight the
[1:13:29] east and west sides of are good size
wetlands and we're staying out of those.
[1:13:34] We're not crossing them. We don't have
any roads crossing them. We're not
[1:13:37] covering any of them. We're We're not
We're not putting a a piece of equipment
[1:13:41] down in the holes down on the sides.
>> Anything else? Any questions?
[1:13:48] » Is that everything?
>> That's it.
[1:13:50] » Okay. All right. We have Is that all the
time? Okay. We'll move to the questions
[1:13:54] that we [snorts] have.
>> Kenneth, you said about the wetland
[1:13:58] reports.
Have you gotten an hydraology report?
[1:14:04] Because the flooded roads are High
Point. Lennis Praver Cemetery Road, Pete
[1:14:08] Hicken, Social Lazana, Kildo, West Maple
Canal Road. So I could go I could keep
[1:14:12] reading them. That is a huge concern for
me is [snorts] the flooding and the
[1:14:19] serious traffic. If you've sat out there
in the mornings on a school day, you'll
[1:14:22] understand the road is narrow. Large
trucks can't even pass each other. If
[1:14:27] you notice, they'll go on the the edge
of the road. So those for me and their
[1:14:32] way of life definitely concerns me. So
have you a hydraology report from an
[1:14:39] expert.
>> So, we have had a wetlands delineation
[1:14:43] that analyzes the hydraology of those
wetlands and the site. Um, we will also
[1:14:48] be getting soil borings on the site
prior to development. Um, as far I mean
[1:14:53] obviously we're not analyzing all the
drainage for the entire county. I mean,
[1:14:57] you mentioned a lot of roads and
flooding and stuff like that. That's all
[1:15:01] » just ones that we're dealing with with
subdivisions that weren't there before
[1:15:04] is our issue
>> and all we can do I mean Andy's the best
[1:15:07] engineer I've ever met and obviously
that's why I'm partners with him. But uh
[1:15:12] you know we do our drainage a little bit
different and with these small ponds we
[1:15:17] want the water to go where it naturally
goes and be off the site at the same
[1:15:23] rate or less than it currently is. A lot
of times, I mean, sometimes that doesn't
[1:15:28] happen with other developments or
whatever, but I mean, I can say for
[1:15:31] ours, I mean, we put a lot of ponds for
that exact reason to ensure that you're
[1:15:36] not having one major outfall that's
going to put water where it's not
[1:15:40] already going and that's going to go at
the same rate speed. Um, you know, I
[1:15:45] understand that there's problems along
the county. I mean, I know that there
[1:15:48] was that one rain that a lot of people
talk about and stuff. I mean, I don't
[1:15:52] remember how many inches of rain we got
in 24 hours, but it was more than
[1:15:57] » I think all of us have seen in a long
time. So, of course, the roads are going
[1:16:01] to flood during those those major
events. I mean, when you're going to
[1:16:04] have 24 inches of rain in 48 hours,
there's there's going to be things that
[1:16:10] do um and then
you said traffic and what was other
[1:16:17] » Oh, just the size of the road, too.
>> Okay. Um
[1:16:21] » the traffic near the school is already
bad. So 500 more cars.
[1:16:27] » I mean as far as 500 cars really isn't a
large amount of cars. I know it sounds
[1:16:32] like a lot but I want a major that is a
fairly major collector road in that
[1:16:37] area. I mean that's where the collector
roads go. Um I do understand that roads
[1:16:43] are going to have to be widened over
time. I mean that's why you know land
[1:16:47] and road how we've been talking about
that for how long. Um but I think that
[1:16:52] there's I think that the school I think
that there's a lot of development. You
[1:16:58] talking about the quality of life and
the way of life.
[1:17:02] Please I know you've looked out there,
you've driven out there, you already
[1:17:05] know the issues that are out there, but
there's there's residential
[1:17:08] subdivisions, hundreds of lots that are
out there already. We're not changing a
[1:17:13] rural area, an agricultural area of
horses and cows into a residential
[1:17:19] subdivision. [clears throat] This is the
residential subdivision area that's next
[1:17:23] to an elementary school.
>> You understand? Every time it floods, we
[1:17:26] get I get hundreds of calls and then I'm
going out there and then it's why do we
[1:17:29] keep putting subdivisions that increases
the flooding? And I'm just being the
[1:17:33] devil's advocate here. I'm just telling
you what my people tell me.
[1:17:36] » I don't know. They've lived there 60
years. They've never flooded like this
[1:17:39] before. my road department guys. Oh,
Miss Rebecca, you can't you won't
[1:17:42] believe what Riverline Drive looks like
today. That really concerns me for
[1:17:47] public safety.
>> And I think that your engineering
[1:17:50] department does a great job. I mean, but
I also think it's the prerogative of
[1:17:54] this board. They want to change the
engineering design standards as well.
[1:17:58] » Yeah.
>> So, you're right. I mean, you can't stop
[1:18:00] development
>> because there's flooding in Harrison
[1:18:04] County. I mean, because there's flooding
in major rain events. You can't stop it
[1:18:07] everywhere. there's changes that need to
be made. Let's work together to
[1:18:11] determine what those changes need to be.
>> And that's the point of the steering
[1:18:14] committee. You know, GMC we've hired and
we're you're part of that. We want
[1:18:17] everybody at the table
>> to work on this together.
[1:18:20] » Yeah, for sure.
>> So, we're going in that direction.
[1:18:23] » And I mean, we just all I can say is we
will do a job to make sure that we are
[1:18:26] not adding to that to the issues that
exist right now.
[1:18:31] » And it is the large big boxes that are
coming in and hurting us the most. And
[1:18:34] we know y'all, we know that you've done
great things in the past. So trying to
[1:18:38] be hard on you. You know that
>> you have done us right. But we have to
[1:18:42] protect the big picture.
>> That's all.
[1:18:48] » Anyone have any other questions? Um
any questions?
[1:18:53] The one one question I have Marlin is
the opposition and builders go to the
[1:18:59] comprehensive plan and they say it's the
Bible. It's what we're going to use.
[1:19:03] This is we go back to it all the time.
But in this case, we have a G1 and a G2
[1:19:09] property [cough and clears throat]
split.
[1:19:11] Why wasn't that decided before it even
came to us? It needs to be one or the
[1:19:15] other. Correct. Am I wrong in saying
that? I'm not I'm not saying but but it
[1:19:22] doesn't need
>> I can't change.
[1:19:24] » Well, I understand. But when this when
this was applied for, we should have
[1:19:27] picked one or the other
unless we're splitting the property in
[1:19:31] half. You're going to do all homes two
different two different growth sectors.
[1:19:35] But I'm going back to the comprehensive
claim. That's what we're going to use.
[1:19:38] If everyone's going to use that, then
we're going to use it as it is. We're
[1:19:41] not going to we're not going to pick and
choose what we want to use out of.
[1:19:47] » I mean, am I wrong or am I right? I'm
not Listen, I think that's the point
[1:19:51] where this committee is going.
>> Correct. There's there's been many cases
[1:19:55] where this board and the planning
commission has not gone on what that has
[1:19:58] been. In fact, this is the longest
debate I've ever heard about what the
[1:20:03] actual comprehensive plan says. I mean,
the one that was on John Clark Road is
[1:20:08] in 100% definitely without a doubt in a
G2 growth corridor. And that's not
[1:20:15] mentioned. So, if we're going to follow
it 110% then that one should have been
[1:20:20] approved,
>> right? I mean, this one I'm saying is
[1:20:23] irrelevant. Number one, because it's
already been determined as R1.
[1:20:27] » Yeah. And number two, it is split. It's
not designed I mean those are not
[1:20:31] designed to be 100%. It is not a legally
binding document. Zoning and we
[1:20:37] discussed this before is the binding.
>> Right? If you don't have it by right
[1:20:41] then the conference plan is is not a
legally binding document. So I mean it's
[1:20:48] split.
>> You can't do it. It's like a split
[1:20:50] zoning. You may have a pick or whatever,
but it's it's just a god. A lot of it's
[1:20:54] a guy and that's how y'all have
addressed in the past, [clears throat]
[1:20:58] but I sometimes I wish you would.
>> Can we join in on this conversation?
[1:21:03] » No, sir.
>> Do you have a question? Unless Anyone
[1:21:07] has a question?
[1:21:12] [cough]
[1:21:20] want to speak.
[1:21:24] » Yes, ma'am. There's there's no there's
no time for rebuttals. We It's
[1:21:28] » It's about your G1 question.
>> Okay. I understand. We can we can have
[1:21:32] that discussion afterwards, but not not
here. Thank you.
[1:21:38] » Okay.
>> I have a question.
[1:21:41] » If you have a question,
>> have a question. Would
[1:21:43] » would you talk about the G1 and G2?
>> What is the history? How long have you
[1:21:48] been there? What is
>> the comprehensive plan was adopted by
[1:21:52] the board into the unified code and it
became the Harrison County comp unified
[1:21:57] code and that encompasses the G1 and G2.
Those are the directions that they but
[1:22:03] the Ohio State [clears throat]
University saw fit for growth because
[1:22:07] that land itself was supposed to be part
preservation. It's a rural area. That's
[1:22:12] why they probably labeled it G1 to be
slow growth next to the school for the
[1:22:16] balance. At the uh zoning hearing
approved that it was G1 and zoning
[1:22:22] challenged that say that they thought it
was G2 and wanted to know where
[1:22:26] information was approved the information
in the application and um on the map
[1:22:34] » the zoning director
but it's my understanding through my uh
[1:22:39] research that the
>> [cough]
[1:22:42] » was adopted into the unified code after
it was completion somewhere I think
[1:22:49] around 2008 20 late 2007 2008 something
like that. So I took that as part of the
[1:22:55] guidelines that I needed to go by
[cough and clears throat]
[1:23:00] » Eric I have a question.
>> Yes.
[1:23:04] I I talked to my my appointment on the
planning commission
[1:23:09] » and can you tell me why they denied it?
>> They were focusing on the G1 G2.
[1:23:20] It it seems it it seems uh pretty simple
when if it's if it was this G1, it
[1:23:27] should have never been reszone to R1.
>> Correct. Once you reszone it to R1,
[1:23:34] » well once zoning is done, unless it's a
>> plan like some kind of special plan
[1:23:40] development, zoning never reverts.
>> It does not revert even if our
[1:23:46] comprehensive plan says that it does.
>> It does not revert unless it is a by law
[1:23:52] zoning cannot revert to anything else.
So this piece of property can never
[1:23:57] revert to something else unless someone
comes in and tries to get it reszoned to
[1:24:02] agriculture. It is zoned
and zoning runs with the land. When when
[1:24:09] it's approved by this board, it runs
with the land. Comprehensive plan uh
[1:24:13] conditional uses run with the developer.
Now if we find that the developer was
[1:24:22] you know untruthful or uh misrepresented
himself in a case there is there is a
[1:24:29] way to pull the condition but not the
zoning this zoning once the only zoning
[1:24:36] if the if it's proven that that the
developer did not represent represent
[1:24:41] himself in good faith you could make a
case to revert that zoning back but it's
[1:24:46] not an automatic
and it doesn't get done because if a
[1:24:50] property owner has reszoneed his
property from A1 to R1 with the respect
[1:24:54] of doing a subdivision and he still
wants to do a subdivision, he's not
[1:24:59] going to revert his property back to A1.
That's just one more hurdle he has to go
[1:25:03] back through.
So, [clears throat]
[1:25:08] so explain to me just the
legally the difference in R1 and R2. I'm
[1:25:17] just looking at this map right here and
everything I see that surrounds this
[1:25:20] property. To the east,
I guess it's the east and west. I'm not
[1:25:26] great at directions looking at this, but
to the east and west is R1. Mhm.
[1:25:31] » There is some A1 to the south of it, I
believe.
[1:25:34] » Right. And then everything to the north
across the street is either
[1:25:40] most of it's R2,
>> right?
[1:25:42] » What what allows for manufactured out
manufacturing.
[1:25:47] » Uh we don't have a lot of that in the
subdivisions across the street. They're
[1:25:51] their majority R1. Well, the subdivision
I I went through there yesterday and
[1:25:56] there there's a there's more homes, but
there are more there are there are some
[1:26:01] streets that have have manufactured
homes. Yes.
[1:26:09] » I don't know what the rest of the board
will say, but for me,
[1:26:13] I know if this goes to the next level
what the outcome's going to be. the
[1:26:17] courts are going to rule in favor of the
developer simply because this is zoned
[1:26:22] R1 and everything around it zoned R1. So
for me, I have no option. I I
[1:26:32] but but to support the appeal. That's
that's me.
[1:26:40] » Any more questions? Any more questions?
[1:26:48] I make a motion, Nathan. Is there make
anything in the form of a motion?
[1:26:53] » I'll make a motion.
>> I'll second it.
[1:26:56] » The motion is to
>> to accept to deny
[1:26:59] » to deny the
toe
[1:27:04] to uphold.
>> I'll make I'll make the motion. I don't
[1:27:06] know what anybody been. I just
>> So, we got
[1:27:09] » It's tough.
It's our
[1:27:13] » All right. So we have a motion and we
have a second. Okay. All those in favor?
[1:27:19] » I.
>> No.
[1:27:21] » All those opposed?
>> I
[1:27:25] Okay. So then we do another Do we want
to do a second motion to clear to clear
[1:27:29] this or leave it as is?
>> I understand. But before we had this
[1:27:33] issue, they we we did the the second way
as well.
[1:27:38] So we're good. [snorts]
>> Well, now
[1:27:42] » wait. I thought you made a motion to
[clears throat] motion
[1:27:44] » to grant the
correct
[1:27:48] » to grant the
[1:27:56] » I'm sorry you made a motion to hold the
appeal allowing it.
[1:28:02] » Kent seconded it.
>> Yeah, there was no
[1:28:04] » How did you
>> I didn't second
[1:28:07] » No, Kent second.
>> No, I didn't vote with
[1:28:09] » He voted against it.
>> Oh.
[1:28:12] Oh,
>> yeah. All three of them.
[1:28:23] » Yeah.
[1:28:28] » So, the motion fails three to two.
>> Okay.
[1:28:33] » All right. So, that's the end of the
hearing.
[1:28:41] explain what happened.
>> Um, so the board denied the um denied
[1:28:45] the appeal. So there is a process for
them to rebuttal which would be a uh
[1:28:50] we'll take it to the court. So it
doesn't end here. This is just one more
[1:28:54] step. So
[1:29:18] Whether they win or not to
[1:29:22] I'm vote
[1:29:29] for
[cough and clears throat]
[1:29:34] this session.
>> No, we haven't recessed yet.
[1:29:39] » I just
I work with Haley Barber
[1:29:48] to Washington with
contacted this week. If you asked him
[1:29:55] because there was some potential
asked him what was the purpose
[1:30:02] billion dollar on the infrastructure
sewer water towers north of
[1:30:10] Wisconsin
while the program was designed to
[1:30:14] overhaul water wastewater
networks across the lower coastal
[1:30:19] county. A primary strategic goal of the
initiative was to build out a
[1:30:25] centralized utility infrastructure
backbone north of Interstate high-tech.
[1:30:30] The explicit intent behind this northern
expansion was to incentivize residential
[1:30:36] and commercial [clears throat]
development further inland supporting a
[1:30:39] northward migration to minimize
vulnerability to catastrophic storm
[1:30:45] surge.
I don't argue with exist but who who
[1:30:49] nowhere in there it says how many miles
north do you go
[1:30:52] » in there it doesn't it doesn't tell you
how far to go it just says north about
[1:30:56] 10 doesn't say north by 10 10 miles two
miles four miles
[1:31:01] » is that talking about stud
[1:31:05] » no
just in general
[1:31:14] » yes I know we need to film we need to
Okay, I want you all one more thing.
[1:31:18] Write this down.
>> Look up. It just passed two weeks ago by
[1:31:22] HUD housing and urban development. It's
called the Road to Housing Act.
[1:31:26] » It's punitive action to be taken against
municipalities
[1:31:32] that deny
development due to
[1:31:38] » here's the exact words. It says uh
minimum lot sales, density, minimum lot
[1:31:44] sizes, density, discretionary approvals,
likely review timelines, obstacles to
[1:31:50] middle inome housing. It says what
they're doing is after enactment,
[1:31:54] communities not in conformance will see
CDBG funds reduced by 10% if growth
[1:32:01] rates below medium average medium growth
rate would see additional C. In other
[1:32:07] words, if they
based on the barometer that was in
[1:32:10] existence, if there was growth, they
would see CDBG funding increased. If
[1:32:15] not, it uh it will be decreased. I've
been contacted by the National Home
[1:32:20] Builders Association who is aware of
things that have been happening in
[1:32:24] Harrison County. I also talked with um u
the fellow from uh his name.
[1:32:31] » We welcome any conversation with anyone
that we do the best we can do when we're
[1:32:35] up here. We're going to get it right.
No, we're gonna get it wrong. Yes. But I
[1:32:38] will have an open conversation with
anyone that talks about CPG and anything
[1:32:42] you have written there about whatever it
is, that's fine. We meet we meet twice a
[1:32:46] month. Anyone that that you're referring
to can come in and speak.
[1:32:50] » Call me. I'll put them on the agenda.
>> Okay. That's what I'm saying is that
[1:32:54] NAHB has targeted the county for some of
the rulings of the last couple.
[1:32:59] » Okay. We want to get on the agenda. We
anticipate we anticipate them to reach
[1:33:05] out.
>> Okay.
[1:33:06] » Thank you.
>> This, you know, this is the first time I
[1:33:09] I'm
>> built more homes in uh South Mississippi
[1:33:15] than any other builder for 16 years.
>> Um
[1:33:18] » what's your name?
>> Larry Matraa. I owned Heinaman Homes,
[1:33:22] Hinman Companies. And as a matter of
fact, um at the time this all took
[1:33:27] place, that's why Hy reached out. I had
over a thousand lots in inventory at the
[1:33:32] time and I have 50 some houses done
construction and I'm 78 years old now so
[1:33:38] I haven't been here in a long time but
um uh the the issue
[1:33:43] » I'm sure we have to get with our meeting
we're in a public meeting we're not
[1:33:46] supposed to talk to you separately on
the agenda I'm so sorry
[1:33:50] » on the agenda you some time to speak to
>> please do but we have to do it legally
[1:33:55] » let's I would actually I was here 8:30
this morning because I wasn't aware that
[1:33:59] it was
>> Yes, sir.
[1:34:00] » So, I listed everything else. All right.
>> So, if there's there's nothing else, um
[1:34:04] we'll
>> I'll make a motion to recess.
[1:34:06] » Okay. But I want to recess in the name
of uh Gregory Crochet. He was perhaps uh
[1:34:12] he worked for Harris County Soil Water
Board, Natural Conservation Service,
[1:34:15] Mississippi Association of Conservation
District and Soil and Water for the
[1:34:19] Commission Board. So, I'd like to close
in his honor or recess in his honor.
[1:34:23] » I'll make that much second.
>> All right.
[1:34:24] » Yes.
>> All right. Uh discussion. All those in
[1:34:27] favor? I
>> All right. recessed.
[1:34:32] » Foundation of that CDBG grant to