[0:00] I don't. Actually got a need for a chair right here.
[0:02] These guys are really comfortable. Yeah.
[0:06] I'll move.
[0:07] A little personal for somebody else.
[0:10] Yeah, for sure.
[0:11] I'm just sitting down.
[0:19] How's your day going?
[0:27] No changing? No.
[0:30] Last time there was a little concern about the camera. Yeah, I saw.
[0:33] But this,
[0:35] I don't know. Just been in here. Been here all the time.
[0:38] But if they change it also.
[0:40] Oh, Pete.
[0:43] John.
[0:44] Yeah.
[0:46] Well, that we went to
[0:51] well.
[0:53] March, we're late March when it was up.
[0:57] They got everything in sync.
[1:00] Which bar? They changed the name, but they didn't change the food that much. Yeah.
[1:05] Yes.
[1:13] Hello.
[1:14] Hi.
[1:14] Come on in.
[1:14] We've seen it. Call it. We'll email it once. Yeah, months ago.
[1:21] I wonder what happened to the other one. Really appreciate you.
[1:26] Oh, it's from the email from Maggie.
[1:30] True, yes.
[1:30] Yeah. We've been letting it out. She told you just to-
[1:33] She said
[1:36] that was different.
[1:37] Hey, there. How are you?
[1:37] Good, I think.
[1:38] Which is a lot better.
[1:40] I think was the point.
[1:42] Yeah.
[1:44] Is it?
[1:44] Is this the one you say? I think so. No, I just joined.
[1:48] Oh, so the one that's here. Oh.
[1:54] Oh,
[1:57] I lost it. No, it's year six. Terminated.
[2:02] So it went.
[2:04] Oh, good.
[2:10] How are you?
[2:11] Hi. Yeah, people out.
[2:13] Oh, you're fine. You're fine. Unless you want to be seen on Zoom because they can't
[2:18] see you there.
[2:19] Oh, that's perfect.
[2:20] That's perfect. We can see right there.
[2:28] Yeah. I feel like it's... Chat
[2:33] up. Yeah, it's actually on the agenda or...
[2:38] No, we can maybe-
[2:39] No, we didn't. Yeah.
[2:42] Perhaps there's-
[2:43] Partners.
[2:45] Well, no, we can do that because-
[2:47] I'll do that every six months. Oh, before calling. No, you just keep him waiting.
[2:52] Sorry, you'll probably have to wait till probably see my house.
[2:56] When they introduce.
[2:58] Or somebody on this call. The noise.
[3:01] But we also do that with similar, but I think it's just called
[3:06] deadline. No, it's another, similar thing.
[3:11] But I'll have to fill out a submission form.
[3:14] Yeah, you can email yourself. I wish
[3:46] I know.
[3:48] I'll see.
[3:52] Okay.
[3:57] No.
[4:06] Nice having you doing a place like this.
[4:14] Yeah, right?
[4:15] True.
[4:23] So
[4:31] they changed. They don't.
[4:44] So you haven't. No, the whole company.
[4:49] So don't care too much as long as they get my money, but...
[4:55] Any questions?
[4:59] Uncle Grabby's probably be interested more. I don't know.
[5:05] He's not here. We'll
[5:11] throw down basketball.
[5:12] Oh, no.
[5:12] Yeah, well, I've seen that record down in the court, though.
[5:17] Oh, that's us. Laura talked about that.
[5:19] I took a picture of the man on the power.
[5:24] He didn't understand what
[5:28] I was doing. Other jobs. No. Senator Kennedy.
[5:31] No, that's not ringing any bells. No, I'm not.
[5:36] That's after Kennedy. No. All
[5:41] right. And they had the argument with each other. Yeah.
[5:47] So I wasn't
[5:49] that
[5:55] busy with them. It was, it was something.
[6:01] The next morning, I was out
[6:04] there with the barber, and I felt the truck, and Byron did not get down.
[6:09] That was 7:00 in the morning. I took another chance. Yeah.
[6:13] Byron showed up at $12,000. Anyway, $2,000 under
[6:19] all the personal items.
[6:26] Okay. He hauls smarter. Wow. I'm almost positive that's honest.
[6:33] Because you're just able to see.
[6:36] Right. It's very difficult.
[6:38] Or I share it usually, 100 seconds.
[6:42] So it could include that. Yeah.
[6:47] Oh, but it's probably less people to share it
[6:52] with.
[6:59] Imagine what?
[7:04] I like spots.
[7:04] Get on with it. Oh, Dean. You're in a city now. I'm figuring.
[7:07] No, we can't sell the phone. I heard this community center, another big one out
[7:11] here, so stop by. And I'm not playing. I'll pay my fair share.
[7:19] That's a mess. Oh, the council never knew it.
[7:23] Yeah, they said, "I might be out here."
[7:26] But it's not her. It's not.
[7:32] She's the only one supposed to.
[7:36] Yes, you can see there's a lot of
[7:39] Yeah. I
[7:42] just...
[8:00] Oh.
[8:00] It's a really hard one there. So we kind of transition from normal.
[8:07] What's the drive like?
[8:08] Might have to substitute a circular drive and all that can be changed with-
[8:11] Yeah
[8:12] ... my own set of time for Charles. My brother said, "I want to get out there, but
[8:17] it's not." He's almost done. I was like, "No."
[8:22] So it's longwinded.
[8:24] Yeah.
[8:25] And it's an early house. So the doors and
[8:29] small. A lot of his money goes directly to the bottom now, to
[8:35] riches.
[8:37] Well, then teach for a second. We haven't had-
[8:39] Yeah, because him and basically all the nationals.
[8:42] I got by the name of the sensors in the clear board.
[8:45] Churchill stuff?
[8:46] Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's all starting church on the car and stuff like that.
[8:52] You still got that book?
[9:19] That would
[9:25] be
[9:26] good.
[9:46] Thank you.
[9:49] Let's go right in. No.
[10:10] Okay.
[12:03] Good.
[12:12] I did legal torches.
[12:20] Thank you.
[12:53] Yeah.
[13:08] Just
[13:12] a
[13:12] real
[13:21] thing, just everybody knows, if you want to speak at the public hearing, make sure
[13:25] to sign in a few days. If you sign in this week, you're right spelling your
[13:29] name.
[13:55] You want me to write your name so that...
[14:29] I would have except that I left you to do it of choice.
[16:24] Questions.
[18:20] Wait,
[18:22] they had to. They didn't launch the-
[18:23] My sister
[18:26] said
[18:31] This kind.
[18:40] This is not easy to talk about, so-
[18:47] Please.
[18:55] Can
[19:29] we get some of those chairs? We won't
[19:34] get the
[19:34] chairs.
[19:44] Yeah, I don't know where you're going to find space, but good luck.
[19:54] I don't mind hiding in the back room.
[19:57] Thank you.
[19:58] It's a lot.
[20:00] Okay, Tom Harder.
[20:04] Next.
[20:05] James Stevenson.
[20:07] We do solemnly swear that we will support and defend the Constitution of the United
[20:10] States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that we will bear true
[20:14] faith and allegiance to the same; that we will obey the orders of the President of
[20:14] the United States of America, and that we will well and faithfully discharge the
[20:18] duties of the office on
[20:23] which we are about to enter.
[20:30] So help us God.
[20:37] I hope very much. Yep.
[20:42] All right. Make a
[20:48] motion to close the meeting, object to public hearing.
[20:52] Do we have the assignment sheet all set up? Anybody want to speak?
[20:56] Still going on.
[20:57] Okay.
[20:59] Oh, sorry.
[21:01] We
[21:02] can close the meeting, yeah.
[21:04] I move that we close the meeting and open .
[21:15] Yes.
[21:18] We have somebody from the company.
[21:22] You want to give a little presentation to the public, please?
[21:25] Yeah, of course.
[21:33] Hello, everybody. My name is Tom Gandhi, and thank you all for coming, and welcome
[21:38] all the comments and the feedback today.
[21:42] I wanted to give a little bit of background of the Lake Oasis project and where it
[21:47] came from, my history and experiences, and from here.
[21:53] A little backstory, I got to know Boonton Town and this area starting in
[21:58] 2008. The area grew, thank God, but I grew up in the village.
[22:04] We got married downtown and then over the golf course, et cetera, in 2008.
[22:09] I've been coming up here every year or two ever since. Really enjoy the area.
[22:14] I've got to know the people in the community.
[22:18] Back in the '80s, 1988, my in-laws acquired a piece of property
[22:24] over in Arving, which is kind of the genesis of this whole thing.
[22:30] I acquired from the in-laws in 2019, and the following year,
[22:37] May 2019, we've been able to acquire a couple of the adjacent properties as well.
[22:42] So accumulatively, three adjacent properties have been put together.
[22:49] Thought a lot about what could be done,
[22:52] what I think the community could use and benefit from, and what I could
[22:59] further bring to the community. And we thought obviously with the
[23:05] location being near the James Park and what not, it's definitely right, the land is
[23:10] right for the hospitality type project.
[23:13] Question that I really spent a lot of time and I talked to a lot of people about as
[23:17] far as what that would that look like. Could it be campground? Could it be RVs?
[23:22] Could it be a hotel, things like that.
[23:25] But where we landed, based on a lot of feedback, a lot of discussion, conversations
[23:30] and stuff, is this idea of campground, RV campers, that
[23:36] allows people to have a nice place to stay, especially those Dreams Park visitors.
[23:42] But also integrates the outdoors, integrates community,
[23:48] in a way that a hotel or something like that wouldn't accommodate for.
[23:54] So, this is the plan that we've opened together. A little bit of backstory.
[23:58] I have here my design engineering team from W&L Consulting and
[24:05] our traffic consultant, Gordon Ganzert at Sands Reg.
[24:09] And so that's the deal.
[24:14] Welcome Matt Averill.
[24:17] Just to get into some details. Again, my name's Matt Averill. I'm a site engineer.
[24:22] I've spent my career doing site design work throughout the New England
[24:28] area. I started my company in 1998 in Manlius, New York.
[24:32] So I have
[24:34] provided site design services for all types of projects
[24:39] throughout Upstate New York for the past 28 years.
[24:44] Far reached out to us with regards to this concept of restraints.
[24:51] And we have essentially, in all kinds, gives her the flip of this,
[24:57] get the nuts and bolts of the overall design, and then we can open the public
[25:01] hearing. But I think it's always good to present the project so everyone's aware of
[25:06] what the project is and what our goals are and where we have been through the,
[25:12] what we call the due diligence process.
[25:15] And that due diligence process is bringing in other regulatory agencies that will
[25:20] have jurisdictional approval for a project such as this.
[25:23] So, just to give orientation to what we're dealing with, Route 28
[25:30] sits off here on the right side of the page.
[25:32] We're literally right across the street from Dreams Park.
[25:36] The main entry, the signalized entry to Dreams Park is further to the
[25:42] north, just off this board itself.
[25:46] The subject site is
[25:50] a hillside subject site. The development piece here is
[25:56] what's called 76 park model RVs, and these particular
[26:02] units are prefabricated, will be brought to the site, set on
[26:07] a base foundation,
[26:12] from which services will be provided as far as electric,
[26:18] water hookup, and sanitary sewer service to each facility, each one of these
[26:24] units. Beyond that, with regards to the network of this overall layout, and
[26:30] as far as said, developing a community layout.
[26:34] But as well, if you're familiar with the site, it is sloping from the
[26:40] east to the west, and the overall layout here is have a terrace look on that side
[26:46] hill, such that the lower units and then the next tier of units will look over the
[26:51] top and still get the vista of the ball fields and the park to the
[26:56] east. And then the next row will do the similar thing.
[27:00] So it's a terrace look, if you can envision looking over, again, the
[27:06] valley, the vista, and the ball fields themselves.
[27:10] The park itself will have a lodge area, some recreational facilities.
[27:16] Right now we're envisioning a swimming pool type of entity.
[27:21] The access will include a-
[27:26] Entry gate type of facility so that people can check in such as they bring in.
[27:32] There will be amenities for the facility.
[27:36] We were going to provide, with those sewer hookups, a sanitary sewer
[27:41] discharge that will be reviewed and approved through the County Department of
[27:47] Health. As well, it will have its own well and water supply.
[27:52] We have brought on board Wade Varney and Varney Associates.
[27:58] Wade has, through his outfit, provided well drilling and
[28:03] services for, he said well over 20 type of well services
[28:09] along this corridor. Based on the sighting of our well, he's indicated he
[28:15] has no qualms or problem providing adequate water service for this development.
[28:21] To offset that, we have not drilled the well yet, but that's going to happen in the
[28:25] next two or three weeks. We'll have the actual quantity of the well water
[28:31] and the quality of that well water.
[28:35] But we're anticipating for the needs of this, that we would offset any of that
[28:40] water supply with a water storage vessel.
[28:43] That water storage vessel will balance the water demand and water needs so that
[28:50] the size of the development has no impact.
[28:54] And again, Department of Health will review all of that.
[28:57] With regards to where that well is proposed to be located, it will have
[29:04] zero drawdown or zero effect on any neighboring wells or communities.
[29:08] So public water supply, sanitary sewer is going to be provided in a couple
[29:13] locations. In the upper area, we've got a leach field system with an
[29:19] appropriate size septic tank. So the septic tank takes the solids out, and just
[29:24] like a smaller residential system, the leach field will take the gray water or the
[29:29] effluent and allow that to properly infiltrate through the ground in the soil, so
[29:34] it's not an adverse impact. My colleague, Deborah Fisher, is here.
[29:39] He was physically on the site three or four days now doing test pits and perk tests
[29:44] to make sure we have suitable depth to soil and suitable percolation infiltration
[29:50] rates of soil, so we have this smaller system.
[29:52] And then we have a larger system sitting here off the east side allowing gravity
[29:57] feed for that. So we've got
[30:01] the well water supply for the facility.
[30:06] We'll have appropriate subsurface sewage disposal or septic system for our
[30:12] discharge waste, and then we'll have electric supply for the units itself.
[30:18] I think with that, and I think
[30:21] we all understand the critical nature of the impact and what's happening up and
[30:26] down the corridor on Route 28. And as such, we recommended and
[30:31] agreed that we bring on a traffic consultant.
[30:34] And so I want to introduce Gordon Stansbury as our traffic consultant.
[30:38] Gordon's going to talk about his background and what he has done in his career, but
[30:43] as well, how his expertise is critical to analyzing the traffic
[30:49] impact of this work. So I'm going to turn it over to you, Gordon, if you could talk
[30:52] about that stuff.
[30:55] Good evening. My name is Gordon Stansbury, GTS Consulting.
[30:59] Just a quick background on myself. I am a traffic engineer through and through.
[31:03] Been doing this for just over 30 years.
[31:07] Started GTS Consulting in 2005, and I've completed roughly
[31:13] 1,400 traffic studies throughout New York City in that time.
[31:18] The real point of the traffic study is to evaluate the impacts and coordinate with
[31:24] New York State DOT here, and then it's a state roadway on the potential access.
[31:29] So we completed a traffic study basically looking at far site access and the
[31:35] signalized access to Leeds Park. Collected data back in June when the park was in
[31:41] full operation, looking at the morning peak, the evening peak on a weekday, and
[31:46] then the midday peak on Saturday. In addition to traffic turning movement counts,
[31:51] we collected gap data on Route 28 passing the site driveway to actually time the
[31:57] gaps. We identify how many cars we turn in and out of the site during the peak
[32:01] hours. We looked at intersection sight distances to confirm that there's safe sight
[32:06] lines for ingress and egress. We reviewed accident history for the past three years
[32:11] to determine if there was any accident concerns in the area.
[32:15] We also
[32:17] collected spot speed data to look at operating speeds and then other operational
[32:23] data for capacity analysis.
[32:27] Overall, the signalized intersection to the north is operating at
[32:33] acceptable levels. We grade operations just like you're in school.
[32:37] It's A through F, or A through D is generally considered acceptable.
[32:41] E's and F, nobody really likes to see those on the report card.
[32:45] But all movements at the intersection are operating at Level of Service D or better
[32:50] during the peak hours today. Understand that there are
[32:55] periods where there's some significant congestion when there's a major overturn in
[32:58] the fields.
[33:00] During the peak hours or the commuter hours, that was not there.
[33:07] We did have a significant queue about an hour before the evening rush hour.
[33:13] But again, our driveway is located about 625 feet from the signal, so the
[33:19] queues have limited impacts on the driving access.
[33:23] Perfect.
[33:25] But usually after the presentation, we can look at the load.
[33:32] So just real quickly, accident history, there was very limited accident history in
[33:38] the area. We had three accidents over the past three
[33:43] years. So there's no significant accident concern in the area.
[33:50] Traffic generation is the big question.
[33:54] We use the IT Institute of Transportation Engineers Traffic Generation Manual
[33:59] industry standard for this type of use.
[34:04] We treated this as single-family detached housing, which is the highest
[34:09] residential generator compared to a campground or a hotel.
[34:14] Using the worst-case trip generation, we're estimating it will generate about 30 to
[34:19] 40 cars entering and exiting during the peaks.
[34:23] The significant portion of that traffic would be driving to Greenfields,
[34:28] because we expect there will be significant use of the baseball
[34:32] visitors. So, I guess one of the things to think about is that 30 to 40
[34:38] cars coming in and out of the site is already coming to and from this area.
[34:43] If anything, we're keeping it closer to its destination versus traveling from
[34:48] further points. We did distribute the traffic to the driveway and the intersection.
[34:55] Overall, the amount of traffic that we're adding had no notable impact on those
[35:00] rates that we give the operations.
[35:02] The overall signalized intersection does drop from a Level of Service C to B or B
[35:07] to C, with an average increase of delay of one second.
[35:11] So the overall impact is minimal. We have good sight lines from the
[35:17] driveway that meet design standards.
[35:19] We have adequate gaps in traffic to accommodate the movements in and out of the
[35:22] site. And overall, as I said, no significant accidents.
[35:27] So the conclusion of the study is that there's no significant impact from this
[35:30] development on the operations at these stands today.
[35:35] I'm sure I'll get lots of questions.
[35:40] Thanks, Gordon. So I think with that, Mr.
[35:43] Chairman, that's our presentation.
[35:46] I know last month with the planning board, we got into some more detail with
[35:52] regards to those services I talked about, and as well, since that time,
[35:58] we submitted through Elise's office a complete stormwater pollution prevention plan
[36:02] for the impact with regards to stormwater.
[36:05] I got a hard copy of that as well, if it's four months out.
[36:08] But I think with the community here today, we're going to open it up to the
[36:14] public comment. Typically, how we like to address it is you as the chair and the
[36:20] board, we're going to answer your questions.
[36:23] We don't like to get into an open dialogue with the community.
[36:26] But if you say, Matt, Gordon, Carr, can you answer that question?
[36:31] We'll answer the board's question, if that's okay with you.
[36:36] Yeah. And our routine usually, just for everyone who's here, is to
[36:41] sign in if you would like to speak, and then you can ask your questions.
[36:46] I feel that our time would be best served if we listened to all the questions and
[36:50] then had the board ask questions directly.
[36:53] Okay.
[36:55] And we're certainly going to take notes.
[36:57] And then, however the board wants it, we can respond to those particular
[37:03] questions in writing at some point in time.
[37:06] But again, if some questions come up with the public and you would like us to
[37:10] immediately address, we'll do the best we can to.
[37:12] So again, just to kind of keep the, we don't want to get into us versus them type
[37:18] of conversation. We're here for you as the planning board, but as well, as Barb
[37:21] will tell you, we are an open book, and we're here to be a member of the community
[37:26] as well. So thank you very much, and we'll look for that.
[37:30] Okay. So next questions. We have a list.
[37:37] First person on the list.
[37:38] First person on the list.
[37:39] Is that the list?
[37:41] Oh, this is who thought they were supposed to sign it.
[37:43] Yeah.
[37:44] Yeah. So the list.
[37:46] You'll start with the first person.
[37:48] So are we
[37:50] ready yet?
[37:51] Hmm?
[37:51] Do we have everybody on there that wants to be on there?
[37:54] We have everybody on there.
[37:56] Everybody.
[37:56] I think everybody signed in for themselves. Okay, John.
[38:01] Go for it.
[38:05] I just have two questions. One, how large is the reservoir going to be for the
[38:10] units, as far as the capacity for the water?
[38:14] And the second one is, the traffic study that everything has been done, that's the
[38:20] existing traffic that's there now.
[38:22] How much is taken into consideration with the additional traffic from this park?
[38:27] And as DOT addressed, the entrance from Old Spartan on 28 with that crest right
[38:33] there by the barn. If you get campers or coming in and out of there, that's a
[38:38] slight blind spot. So I want to know if somebody's addressed that issue rather than
[38:42] the track light 600 yards up the road.
[38:47] Okay. I might have more questions later, but...
[38:50] Okay. Next one.
[38:53] Bob McMurray.
[38:57] No real questions, just a statement.
[38:59] I wonder about the expansion of the existing Dreams Park.
[39:04] I've heard rumors that will expand.
[39:06] And if it does, on the Disney model, they'll have on-premise housing.
[39:11] So I think it's something we should consider.
[39:14] This all sounds good, but
[39:18] I'm not sure.
[39:20] I'll say there's nothing before us at this time.
[39:23] Oh, okay.
[39:26] Go ahead to the next.
[39:28] Amanda Powers.
[39:31] Mostly just, I'm concerned by the traffic.
[39:34] We all know that during the peak hours, as they say, when Dreams
[39:39] Park is first signing in, we all know the traffic backs up to way beyond Goeppond
[39:45] Road, and my concern is that I know that when I'm turning
[39:51] on and off of Goeppond Road, I stop at the top of the hill to turn because I don't
[39:55] want somebody coming over and slamming when they see me because they come over the
[39:59] hill too fast. With those cars backed up and lined up, I'm afraid of the impact
[40:05] that traffic will have on them.
[40:10] Daniel Powers.
[40:12] Well, among other things, I noticed this gentleman said that there is no real
[40:17] traffic actions there. I thought, you don't have any. You're looking to make it.
[40:22] Frankly, when you start adding a whole bunch of cars, well, the situation is not
[40:25] going to change.
[40:27] Whose EMPs and whose ambulance service is going to be taking care of that?
[40:31] Whose police, whose firemen, all right?
[40:35] He's going to have the solids pumped out. Who's paying for that?
[40:40] Where's it going? Who's taking care of it?
[40:45] You don't know. Okay. Dump it. All right. All that gray water.
[40:48] Not going to answer.
[40:50] Okay. Well, maybe that's the reason why.
[40:54] Oh, you got all that gray water. Where's that going to go?
[40:57] What's the impact on that going to be to the Susquehanna River?
[41:01] You want to tell me that's not going to leak anywhere at any time?
[41:06] As far as water goes, I've got it at somewhere near, let's see, 30,000 to 40,000
[41:11] gallons a day.
[41:14] Right? Now, I'm not sure what this
[41:19] thing here, you can talk about it, the
[41:23] water well vessel. I'm not sure what that means, but at some point, it still has to
[41:27] be filled. You're talking 30,000, 40,000 gallons going out there at some point.
[41:33] And, I know that last year, Millburg had to conserve water order round
[41:39] because they were getting so dry. They couldn't provide their own town.
[41:42] And you want to tell me that's not going to be the same aquifer, honestly?
[41:47] All right?
[41:49] We have no municipal water.
[41:56] You got to treat the wastewater somehow. You're going to drain the aquifer.
[42:01] All right? Now, you just got listed as 13 acres that you're going to
[42:07] develop, but there's 76 acres up there.
[42:11] Now, as I got it, I remember getting this battle years ago when Dreams Park came
[42:15] in. They wanted 90 fields. That's 90 fields. They got at least 24 now.
[42:21] And now they're talking about expanding again.
[42:23] How do we know with 76 acres at your disposal that you set up the precedent that
[42:28] this is possible, that there won't be 205 or 300 units up there?
[42:34] And how many families, local families who have paid money and put money into their
[42:38] houses, so they could have an apartment in the back, such as Carol Kessler, to help
[42:43] pay their mortgage. Or maybe grandma's room in the back or grandma's house out
[42:47] back. How many of those people are going to lose their income?
[42:51] So that one guy can come here and take it all away from them.
[42:54] This whole place started, they told us this would be a boom to the community.
[42:59] Everybody get a piece of it. Everybody has a little extra money.
[43:02] Our taxes would go down. Well, our taxes didn't go down.
[43:06] But the few people who are making something out of it right now are going to lose
[43:09] it. You're going to put 76 to start with, maybe as many as 203, 300 people out of
[43:15] business. Right?
[43:19] Oh, goodness. All right. So you got impermeable surfaces, 76 houses.
[43:25] Well, they're going to drop a rain going to blow the roof of that house.
[43:27] I'm pretty sure they're going to buy better houses than that.
[43:30] So you got an emergency spot, you've got driveways, you got roofs.
[43:34] All that water's going to go somewhere. Where?
[43:37] Right down the Susquehanna Street to Chesapeake Bay.
[43:40] With oil and gasoline and stuff drip right through it.
[43:44] It's all leading to blue Chesapeake Bay where we're at.
[43:48] If you
[43:50] drain even one acre of wetlands,
[43:55] if you drain even one, you have to build three acres of wetlands somewhere else.
[44:02] And I believe by law, you have to do that before you can start construction.
[44:07] It should take you about three years to make sure you got all your wetland stuff.
[44:15] I guess the big thing is going to be the cost to the community,
[44:21] right? If Goeppond Road gets used in any way, in any way,
[44:27] that's going to be up to the town of Hartford to pick that up.
[44:30] How about people walking across the highway there?
[44:33] They said, "Yeah, right directly across it." Right directly.
[44:36] What are the chances people ain't going to be crossing that road?
[44:40] I thought one or two of them get hit. See how that works out.
[44:44] They got it written here as 30, 40 cars at different times crossing that road.
[44:50] Well, you got 76 units up there. There's probably going to be at least 150 cars in
[44:55] there.
[45:00] You know, you just...
[45:03] All right. That's enough for now.
[45:06] Jean Marie.
[45:07] I'm concerned about the benefits of what the town will get from this, and
[45:13] the extra traffic, the water, the sewer,
[45:19] what it's going to add to that, the emergency levels, and the number of people that
[45:25] it's going to be plus.
[45:28] Chris Barry.
[45:31] I know Par said that this would be a way to give back to the community.
[45:34] I'd really like to hear how this is going to benefit the community at all.
[45:42] Mike Gladstone
[45:44] Just kind of touching on points that people have already made.
[45:48] And I'm really concerned about the economic impact to local campgrounds, local
[45:53] Airbnb, anything local. As far as I can tell, pretty much all the other
[45:59] campgrounds are still locally owned.
[46:01] Some of them might be behind an LLC, but still local ownership.
[46:05] This money, if he rents that, and what I found,
[46:11] there's one weekend where everything hits 100% utilization.
[46:15] There's campgrounds that are 100% utilization.
[46:19] The hotels seem to be around 80%, and the Airbnb seems to be in the 80% to
[46:25] 85%. So there's still rooms available in the area most of the time.
[46:30] So from that standpoint, this isn't needed.
[46:34] And then, if he's going, after his own words, your notes
[46:40] from the last meeting, luxury resort-style accommodations.
[46:45] So I don't think his price point is going to be the basic room at the Holiday Inn.
[46:49] The basic room at the Holiday Inn, during peak season, is over $300 a
[46:55] night. You multiply that by the season, we're taking over a million-dollar
[47:01] chunk of the local economy and sending it to Texas. He's from Texas.
[47:06] He lives in Texas. The LLC is registered in Texas.
[47:11] And you're trading that for that development?
[47:15] Has anybody looked at the tax base you're going to gain from that?
[47:18] Those RVs are not taxable.
[47:21] They're registered as a fifth-wheel camper would be.
[47:25] So you pay a registration fee to New York State every year.
[47:28] As soon as you park that on a pad or put a skirt around it, you're now exempt from
[47:33] it. New York State, Albany's not even getting any money from it.
[47:36] They need it more, but they're not even getting money from it.
[47:40] So what can you tax on it? The improvement? The driveway? The stone?
[47:45] The office building?
[47:48] What's your income tax? 20 grand? That's like $10 a resident.
[47:55] I'll give you $20 out of my pocket right now.
[48:00] I think the benefit to the local community from a tax perspective is not worth
[48:06] it, taking it. There's not more baseball coming because they built this.
[48:11] They're taking the same pie you got now, chopping a chunk out of it, mailing it to
[48:16] Texas.
[48:19] As far as the wetlands are concerned, they're saying they're not affecting it.
[48:23] But on your own town website, bring up your mapping system,
[48:30] and it said that DEC didn't have jurisdiction.
[48:34] Well, this list is having DEC wetland completely bisecting the property
[48:39] from north to south.
[48:43] And there's Army Corps of Engineer wetland on that property as well, higher up the
[48:47] hill where it doesn't look like they're going to be.
[48:50] So I don't know how those things can exist together.
[48:54] Jessica.
[48:56] Just my main concern was, like Bart said, the traffic on that null.
[49:01] That was my main concern, was just the traffic flow on
[49:07] that, the null south of that entrance
[49:11] into zone six.
[49:13] Daph Youngers.
[49:17] I don't know.
[49:22] Dave.
[49:23] Yeah.
[49:25] Dave Petrie. I worked at Angel just for seven years.
[49:30] That whole area from Graham Road to Melber, that whole side of that was full of
[49:35] springs that I grew up with, those were good as
[49:38] well. In my concern is some people still use some of those springs,
[49:43] and the septic and stuff's got to go somewhere.
[49:48] And I think Danny covered it really well.
[49:53] I'm really concerned about that. I'm also concerned about the buying all the real
[49:57] estate on the grasslands in county rule 11.
[50:01] I think that needs to be
[50:03] taken into consideration, like everybody pretty much has said.
[50:08] But I am aware of the springs that run outside Hill and all the way up through
[50:13] there,
[50:15] and I don't think it's a wise move to allow this to take place.
[50:22] Karen Kofi.
[50:24] Yeah. My concern is, who's going to be watching over that day and night, 24/7?
[50:30] As we're trying to bring in an ambulance or a fire truck, who's going to be telling
[50:34] us where to go, how to get there? As far as I know, I'm not an emergency sweep.
[50:39] I have not heard from anybody, even to go up there and take a walk through that
[50:42] place. We're very limited with the number of people that we have, and I think
[50:48] it's just going to be impossible to accommodate what's going to have to go up
[50:52] there. I'm not going to have somebody on staff up there at all times.
[51:00] Cody Morin.
[51:03] This is on behalf of the two town residents that came in from emails.
[51:07] One pending tailing, do you like planning more to check with the county or state as
[51:11] August Lodge needed changes when that went in and that road changed across the
[51:16] taxpayers $200,000. And then he also wanted to know would the lodge need to be
[51:21] changed to a two-lane highway.
[51:24] The next one was from Michael Mary Bowen.
[51:26] I unfortunately did not make the public hearing.
[51:29] I read on the notice that there was a post on the 16th at rvpark.com.
[51:35] I want to let the board know that my wife and I are very strong because I don't
[51:39] believe that the
[51:42] use of resources for such an idea, water, roadway, and additional traffic are the
[51:47] best interest of the residents. I believe the benefits for town and park and
[51:53] Yellowstone County would place additional burden on our highway department,
[51:57] emergency services, et cetera. I do feel ultimately it would increase our property
[52:02] taxes without helping our infrastructure.
[52:04] Has anyone addressed the road maintenance costs on Still?
[52:08] I feel that cost is placed on the town of Park residents with no return to other
[52:12] business that reads about this. Also, when does this have a negative effect on the
[52:17] current RV tax and camp rents? Thank you for your time.
[52:23] I really appreciate it.
[52:25] Paul.
[52:25] My thoughts are already on this.
[52:28] Okay. I'm not sure I can read this one. Sorry.
[52:30] That's what I speak, so.
[52:32] Okay.
[52:35] I'm not sure if it's to Dan or-
[52:37] Yes.
[52:38] Dennis, we got next.
[52:40] My concern is, in Dream Park, personal started losing water.
[52:45] I have it stored in my house and it's dried up.
[52:49] Where's that?
[52:50] I heard other people had to-
[52:52] Where do you live?
[52:53] Up.
[52:53] Is everybody next to the Dream Park?
[52:55] 20 miles.
[52:56] Okay, I'm sorry.
[52:58] And I heard other people had to have their wells punched deeper,
[53:04] 100 feet, 120 or so.
[53:05] Uh-huh.
[53:06] To dry a year, that this all happened.
[53:10] My concern is they're not bringing that much more in that they got it out.
[53:17] In our spring, since my grandmother owned the house, it's never dried up.
[53:24] That's where I'm concerned, and the traffic.
[53:29] Blake.
[53:30] Yeah. So I guess I'm going to try to address the traffic and water and everything
[53:35] like that.
[53:37] I have a somewhat technical question on design.
[53:42] They're utilizing DOH standards, which typically are capped
[53:48] for septic systems at 1,000 gallons a day.
[53:55] I think that it really should be utilized by USA DC intermediate
[54:01] resource standards. So,
[54:03] they have a little bit more stringent standards for that.
[54:12] Patsy.
[54:14] I sent an email to the planning board.
[54:19] My issue's not necessarily on any particular project, and I want to thank the
[54:25] people who presented tonight, for the exact use of property as it was built on.
[54:31] But in general,
[54:35] the visiting tourist brings in $435 million into the county every year.
[54:41] And $225 of that is spent on lodging, $225 million in Kent County
[54:47] on lodging. Of that, there's now a sales tax of 8% on
[54:53] short-term rentals, an occupancy tax, and
[54:58] $54 million in sales tax coming in, not just on lodging, on everything
[55:04] in the county. And I think it's time that Kent partner work more closely with the
[55:09] Town of Otsego and the Town of Oneonta to address a bigger
[55:14] portion of either partially the sales tax revenue, and I understand the formula is
[55:19] very complicated for that, but also the occupancy tax.
[55:24] Also, I think the town of Kent should look at a
[55:30] little parkland
[55:33] proposal for some of these
[55:38] special use reviews, and perhaps even establish a
[55:44] special improvement district, which I know you're, I think, I don't know, you might
[55:49] be allowed to do even if you don't have zoning in the town.
[55:52] I think we all need to remember that Arkansas has zoning.
[55:56] So it's nice that Otsego will have everybody, so things that they're bringing up
[56:01] are concerns of mine as well. But zoning is an issue.
[56:06] And I also think that we should look at, as a town, a comprehensive short-term
[56:10] rental inspection code and recovery ordinance that would allow the town to
[56:16] assess a permitting fee for units of short-term rental.
[56:21] The town needs to figure out a way to extract some of this
[56:27] $220 million that's coming into the county in lodging, because
[56:33] that's how we're going to fund some of our services and our roads and such.
[56:38] So those are my thoughts.
[56:41] Jessica? Any questions?
[56:46] Steve Wyne.
[56:50] Steve, oh.
[56:51] Do you have any-
[56:52] Well, actually, I'm not even on the list, but I signed it on.
[56:58] Oh, okay. No, that's okay.
[57:03] Just in general, in terms of some of the technical side,
[57:10] one of the gems that we all have and will benefit from what's going on, it really
[57:16] is special. Most people who go up to the campground, they know how beautiful it is.
[57:22] One of my concerns is in the summer, fine. And in the summer, you're fine.
[57:26] Any time you go up there, there are six, seven new cars up there and then
[57:31] people with trailers who are incredibly respectful. Always exceptions.
[57:37] Myself, every time I go hiking around, I have to pick up garbage.
[57:41] But those are the exceptions. Most people are crazy here.
[57:44] But if you're going to build a big car going down low, 20 days,
[57:51] this type of development, you're not going to have six or seven.
[57:55] Honestly, you're going to have on a nice little fun fun through.
[58:00] And as it is, it's not that big a difference. Pressure.
[58:05] And we also see backup supply for us, but if you tell Milford somebody mentioned
[58:09] that some of the wells are drying up in Milford, that's still the backup supply for
[58:15] Milford. It's really proceeding. There's not a lot of construction on it.
[58:20] How are we going to address that? So those are some of the secondary things.
[58:23] I don't really have a feeling whether
[58:26] Otsego County needs
[58:29] more facilities or what the vacancy rate is.
[58:32] I don't have any idea of why it's not economical.
[58:36] But I can see the impact it's going to have.
[58:41] Not really concerned about it. As long as it's the outside pressure, everyone
[58:46] knows. We take the resources that Otsego can.
[58:52] It's going to change the nature of the code. So I'm not...
[58:55] That's one of my concerns.
[59:00] Theresa.
[59:01] So like a lot of other people, things I was concerned about have already been
[59:07] addressed or spoken about. I guess I'm a little confused because I
[59:13] thought that the traffic study shows that there's no significant issues during peak
[59:19] traffic times on 28, so this wouldn't really add any more of an issue to it.
[59:24] But yeah, if you try to go from Perfect to Coopersound via 28, good luck.
[59:30] From 7:00, 8:00, 8:30 north, or 5. It doesn't matter if you go down 45 towards
[59:35] Milford or not, or if you go over Grasslands Trail, it doesn't matter.
[59:40] People are black out their minds.
[59:44] Lacey has a good point. We grew up at Waypond. It's going to be trashed.
[59:50] It's going to be trashed. There's no way around it.
[59:52] I did not realize, as Mike stated, that all this money is going to go to somebody
[59:58] in Texas when we have such lovely generational campgrounds here that are
[1:00:03] struggling. Why aren't we supporting them?
[1:00:06] That's true.
[1:00:06] Why aren't we getting somebody to help them?
[1:00:08] Why aren't we putting out advertising for them?
[1:00:10] Why aren't we bringing them in to do different things instead of shipping money to
[1:00:15] Texas? It makes no sense.
[1:00:20] I'm not sure the person we hear about Conlin, which may-
[1:00:23] I'm sorry.
[1:00:24] Conrad.
[1:00:24] Conrad.
[1:00:25] Conrad. Go ahead.
[1:00:28] It says it's luxury development, but I don't think that kind of density looks very
[1:00:32] luxury or looks very outdoorsy. That's my feel.
[1:00:36] That is not camping, that is cookie cutter.
[1:00:40] As for access, it looks to me like if they were really going to do this, they
[1:00:45] should get right away, straight down 248 through people in front,
[1:00:51] who probably don't want to sell. Instead, they're going to spurt onto a tiny little
[1:00:56] road that is then going to have to be changed wide because-
[1:01:02] No
[1:01:02] ... and I wasn't going to mention Bowie Pond.
[1:01:05] Bowie Pond, the water is owned by the Town of Milford, to the high water mark.
[1:01:11] The peninsula, sort of the point as you stand at the little beach, is owned by the
[1:01:17] Town of Milford. The rest of it is owned by the Gladstone family and by one other
[1:01:22] landowner who's in this room. Not me.
[1:01:25] Now, the beach, we have a town road that's a dirt road,
[1:01:31] and so there's a town right of way, and then there's what you call a beach.
[1:01:35] It's basically a few steps down to the water.
[1:01:39] And it's really a moot point as to whether that is public access.
[1:01:44] It's not a park, it's not
[1:01:47] a DC reservation. It's
[1:01:53] a gray area that people are careful to use carefully,
[1:01:58] but it cannot be used by a lot of public very
[1:02:03] sensibly. It's too small and there is no right of way, no access.
[1:02:08] It's just a tiny little... But don't kid yourself.
[1:02:12] If we have 76 units at the foot of that road, people are going to go up there, and
[1:02:17] they're not going to care whether the Gladstone's own the land, or Steve Weilen
[1:02:20] owns a little piece of it, or the Town of Milford owns a piece of it.
[1:02:24] They're not going to care. They're not going to.
[1:02:26] And what'll happen is Milford will say, "Okay, liability.
[1:02:30] I don't want all these people in our water. I don't want to be sued.
[1:02:33] Therefore, we will put up a fence." And they will do it for everyone.
[1:02:37] So it's like,
[1:02:40] we do things like neighbors, little things to just keep things nice, not get it
[1:02:46] blown open. The minute it blows open, then you've got lawyers and planners and
[1:02:51] builders and permitters.
[1:02:54] And then you've got the water polluted, and it gets to the Milford Reservoir.
[1:02:58] It's there, and they're all through the reservoir. There's a chlorine road.
[1:03:02] They had a chlorine eight years ago. There's a pipe that still goes down.
[1:03:06] It could be reactivated if they ever needed it.
[1:03:08] In other words,
[1:03:10] it's a really bad place. If they want to build something, let them put a driveway
[1:03:15] that just goes right out to 28.
[1:03:18] But to access onto Bowie Pond, and have that be their
[1:03:24] driveway,
[1:03:26] I say no.
[1:03:28] Let them get their own driveway. Thank you.
[1:03:34] Dustin and Dennis?
[1:03:36] Those are my ones I've kind of been touched on, but you know coming off of Bowie
[1:03:42] Pond as you turn on 28, the average camper's 30 feet long.
[1:03:47] I myself pull a 24-foot enclosed trailer. I will not pull off of Bowie Pond on 28.
[1:03:52] Won't do it
[1:03:54] You're going to get it, you're going to die, guaranteed.
[1:03:58] As for the impact on traffic, that's something that camps put off in between
[1:04:03] racetracks and campgrounds, actual luxury campgrounds.
[1:04:07] 76 units does not bring to 30 to 40 units. It brings to 80 to 150.
[1:04:12] Most people bring one to three vehicles with them to the campgrounds.
[1:04:18] Now, just one, they don't just drive their RV there, because most people have a
[1:04:21] vehicle behind the camp. So they're guaranteed to have a truck.
[1:04:24] Also, Dreams Park is not a walk-in facility.
[1:04:27] You cannot walk into Dreams Park unless you work for Dreams Park.
[1:04:30] Therefore, you have 70 to 150 cars going 30 feet to turn right into Dreams Park.
[1:04:38] You're telling me that's not going to put you into E territory on your traffic
[1:04:41] study that was done at the slowest point of Dreams Park?
[1:04:48] We probably should've done this during the season of the Hall of Fame induction.
[1:04:54] Way back for that on a Hall of Fame induction week.
[1:04:56] I have a small engine repair shop in Plainfield. I drive 28 daily.
[1:05:01] I have to go 15 minutes out of the way to bypass a four-hour wait on 28 if it's
[1:05:07] chatting day. I can guarantee you traffic study was not done on chat, at chatting
[1:05:12] times.
[1:05:16] Furthermore, somebody else mentioned the amount of acres that you have there.
[1:05:22] I and everybody else in the room knows damn well you're not going to just end at 76
[1:05:26] units. You're going to continue to build as what was sold to you with the property,
[1:05:31] which I hope all of you have seen, because it's like water park style pond,
[1:05:37] hundreds of units, several cabins.
[1:05:41] So now your 76, 30, 40 dollars turns into 2,000 coming out one
[1:05:46] road that's maintained by the town of Parkway, who also will not enter 28 from that
[1:05:51] side, if they don't.
[1:05:55] Over to you.
[1:05:58] That's everyone on the list. I don't know if-
[1:06:01] I didn't go.
[1:06:02] Oh, oh, I'm sorry. Pat Ryan, you were on the second column.
[1:06:06] No.
[1:06:07] We found that.
[1:06:08] Okay, um, I agree. First of all, let me say, I have
[1:06:14] been at this since 1959 trying to get some
[1:06:20] kind of land use planning in our township. Okay?
[1:06:26] Everything that was said here tonight could have been
[1:06:30] eliminated or alleviated if we had a
[1:06:36] land use regulation.
[1:06:39] Now, I was supervisor here for four years,
[1:06:43] 2008 through 2011. In 2009 and
[1:06:49] '10, we adopted, first of all, a
[1:06:54] comprehensive plan, which we had to have in order for the town to
[1:07:00] get grants from the state to do any kind of work.
[1:07:06] The million and a half grant that we got for upgrading our water facility here came
[1:07:11] from a grant because of the fact that we adopted this plan.
[1:07:16] The ensuing boards have not followed this plan.
[1:07:21] We then, as a requirement of this comprehensive plan, was
[1:07:27] a land use regulation law. We got dollars from the state to put this in place.
[1:07:33] This land use regulation plan was required to be adopted.
[1:07:39] We had a consultant working on it for two years with a commission, a zoning
[1:07:44] commission, appointed through state. Okay?
[1:07:47] It was required to be appointed through state.
[1:07:50] The commission worked for two years with a consulting firm out of Albany.
[1:07:55] This is what they came up with. This is a land use regulation draft
[1:08:01] law, which has been sitting on a shelf for 16 years.
[1:08:08] I have tried to get the planning work people to look at this.
[1:08:13] It could be, because districts,
[1:08:16] it would require that a developer have to put sidewalk.
[1:08:21] The first thing that was recommended, which it gets to the water issue with this
[1:08:26] project,
[1:08:29] when we were doing the grant for the million and a half for here in this hamlet,
[1:08:35] the hydrologist in 2010 recommended
[1:08:41] because of the exponential growth in the Route 28 commercial corridor,
[1:08:47] that there be a water budget study done.
[1:08:53] I got an estimate from him, $4,800.
[1:08:56] And what that does is they will take it, they measure the
[1:09:01] aquifer at the high usage point, and then they measure it
[1:09:07] again for the high water point. Then they measure it again to find out how many
[1:09:12] gallons have been taken. The board did not approve that, unfortunately,
[1:09:18] in 2010 when this was recommended.
[1:09:22] So I say, at this point in time, until we get some sort of land
[1:09:28] or water budget study done in that corridor, because since 2016, how many more
[1:09:34] high water usage businesses have been
[1:09:37] approved over there on the 28 corridor? Sidewalks.
[1:09:43] There should have been sidewalks required by the Dream Start developers.
[1:09:49] There should have been an off-ramp to go behind Dream Start.
[1:09:52] But nobody, everybody is thinking, "Oh, this is going to be great.
[1:09:56] We're going to get lots of money, and all these jobs will be created." But in the
[1:10:01] end, we're all going to be paying. And it may be that that corridor over there goes
[1:10:05] without water, and the suggestion from the hydrologist was that it should
[1:10:11] be looking at water towers. So here we're talking about a whole new look at
[1:10:17] the infrastructure. So God bless you all, and everything you said I agree with,
[1:10:23] folks.
[1:10:25] I have one more very quick comment, is that those cabins fall under Department of
[1:10:30] Health regulations for spacing, and they can be stacked up 10 feet apart.
[1:10:37] Another question back.
[1:10:40] There's one more thing I would like to say.
[1:10:43] This zoning law, this draft zoning law, when David Butler took office in
[1:10:48] 2012, he had one hearing on this, which was required to have the hearing.
[1:10:54] It was required to be adopted or turned down as far as the state was concerned.
[1:11:00] It never came back for another hearing.
[1:11:03] It's still sitting on the shelf after that hearing.
[1:11:05] I just want to say one thing, Pat. You did say that that land use law you put
[1:11:11] before the planning board, I think you meant to say-
[1:11:14] I said what?
[1:11:15] Yeah. When you said that you, when you were, uh-
[1:11:18] Supervisor
[1:11:20] ... the supervisor, that you brought that in front of the planning board.
[1:11:22] Oh, no, no.
[1:11:22] No, you meant to say the town board.
[1:11:25] The town board.
[1:11:25] That's all I wanted to clarify.
[1:11:26] Right. Yes, yes. Yeah, the planning board would not approve this-
[1:11:30] We are not to be here
[1:11:31] ... but there were planning board members on the commission as well.
[1:11:34] There were 12 people for two years that worked with the consultants, and this is a
[1:11:40] very good report. In fact,
[1:11:45] as far as what the comprehensive plan was about when we adopted and why it was
[1:11:50] going to be adopted, and if you go back and read that,
[1:11:55] we are falling so far away from what the people wanted
[1:12:01] because they don't look at this end. Right?
[1:12:06] At the time you were against this.
[1:12:08] No.
[1:12:09] Well-
[1:12:09] I was against zoning.
[1:12:11] What?
[1:12:12] I was against zoning.
[1:12:12] You were against zoning. But the comprehensive plan, um, was at the
[1:12:18] time, I was accused of spending $38,000 on a one-inch book.
[1:12:24] That's what the stove was about. So, sorry, I rest
[1:12:30] my case.
[1:12:31] Can I just say one more thing?
[1:12:34] All-Star Village plans next year to build, um, a hotel, I
[1:12:39] believe some sort of amusement park.
[1:12:42] Um, it's also been said that the Rincon family and those that own All-Star Village
[1:12:47] are or have looked into purchasing Dreams Park. Um, Dreams Park is still expanding.
[1:12:52] They're currently building two storage facilities in the back lot.
[1:12:56] Um, they will too, also add a hotel to keep everybody on premise.
[1:13:01] Um, so long-term viability just doesn't exist
[1:13:12] Just one other thing. No, go ahead.
[1:13:17] One possible way maybe to eliminate the overflow or the influx of a lot of people
[1:13:21] at Goegh Pond is to include on that website plan there, a swimming facility to keep
[1:13:27] the people there rather than have them venturing up over the top of the hill.
[1:13:31] You close the road.
[1:13:32] If you don't have a lifeguard issue or anything like that, it's all in
[1:13:35] responsibility of that site right there.
[1:13:38] Milford's already worried about their liability up there.
[1:13:41] If we close that road, most neighbors who own along that road are here.
[1:13:45] They have no problem with it being closed.
[1:13:47] The town doesn't have to maintain it whatsoever. Milford's liability.
[1:13:53] Give a damn, Stappy. Go on, do it.
[1:13:55] A couple of she don't like.
[1:13:58] Yeah.
[1:13:58] They're mailing the whole-
[1:14:00] Stay on the road. It's rough anyway
[1:14:02] First response was the paint truck.
[1:14:09] Is there anyone else?
[1:14:11] Anybody else?
[1:14:14] I'd like to-
[1:14:16] Yes, yes.
[1:14:17] Yes. I would be curious to get very specifics as to how this would benefit.
[1:14:23] How many jobs, how many year-round jobs?
[1:14:25] Exactly what type of intervention?
[1:14:30] How many people from Milford are going to be working there making a living, not a
[1:14:34] fancy job?
[1:14:36] I'm betting with 76 units, it's not going to be local people, you know, so either-
[1:14:41] It's going to be seasonal anyway, especially when-
[1:14:43] Right. So it's just that-
[1:14:44] They'll be coming in from somewhere.
[1:14:52] Supposing we see.
[1:14:54] Is there anybody else?
[1:14:58] Does that place perk well? I have a question.
[1:15:01] Is the ledge-
[1:15:03] I just wanted to say I agree with Daniel totally.
[1:15:07] Everybody was promised that all our taxes would go down, and all this wonderful
[1:15:11] stuff in the film at Beech Park, and just the opposite effect has happened.
[1:15:16] So I agree with Danny totally on that.
[1:15:19] I can't see any where it's benefited us in any way with local people involved.
[1:15:24] That's it.
[1:15:26] All right. Last, one more person.
[1:15:29] Mark?
[1:15:32] Any Chris?
[1:15:34] Okay,
[1:15:40] so, end of public hearing.
[1:15:43] That's-
[1:15:44] I'll make the motion that we end the public hearing.
[1:15:46] Second.
[1:15:47] All in favor, aye. Aye.
[1:15:49] We'll give you guys a chance to... Any non-response item that you heard
[1:15:55] that you'd like to clarify?
[1:15:57] I think we'd like to make some clarification, saving it again, between our team, we
[1:16:02] did write down all comments.
[1:16:05] We will address them, but just to clarify a couple main points.
[1:16:10] Our main drive is right onto Route 28.
[1:16:13] Our main drive is not going onto Goegh Pond Road.
[1:16:16] That's one point we just want to make clear in understanding, that our main
[1:16:21] driveway goes right onto Route 28.
[1:16:23] I'm going to second that to the other one, the bottom of the goal.
[1:16:26] Pretty high goal, too.
[1:16:28] We'll verify that with the OT. So, the other pieces to understand is that
[1:16:34] the OT will be reviewing, and their experts will be reviewing the Gordon Stanfare
[1:16:40] GTS consultant traffic impact study.
[1:16:43] They will ask for the modeling of how that occurred to make sure it meets the
[1:16:49] standard of the day with regards to trip generation, and that the time
[1:16:55] of the background data is appropriate for the Route 28 work.
[1:17:01] So all of that is not only what we say, it gets reviewed by the regional
[1:17:06] engineering department of the OT. So that certainly will occur.
[1:17:11] And Gordon can address, that I was going to talk about some of these other pieces
[1:17:15] for sure, but I feel like Gordon kind of covered what he has heard as well.
[1:17:19] So just to understand is on a technical aspect... Go ahead.
[1:17:26] You say your main entrance is on 28, but if I read that map right, you do have an
[1:17:31] entrance going onto Goegh Pond. Am I not correct?
[1:17:35] Mm-hmm.
[1:17:35] Okay. So that's not going to stop anybody from going out onto Goegh Pond than
[1:17:41] going up to our property.
[1:17:43] Somebody else-
[1:17:47] That's why amongst the planning board now, we are still under, let's call it,
[1:17:54] a review from the planning board. If the planning board says...
[1:17:57] And that was kind of for the purposes of emergency egress and fire department, and
[1:18:02] then it could be a breakaway chain, but the fire department's going to want to have
[1:18:07] a secondary means of access as well.
[1:18:09] So I think in a planning sense, that's kind of what we were thinking is to provide
[1:18:14] other means of access beyond the primary point.
[1:18:18] So that could be a breakaway chain or some other piece.
[1:18:20] So you're absolutely correct. We do show some of these things in a planning sense,
[1:18:25] and it's part of point of conversation to both of the board and we,
[1:18:31] through Elise, we've been trying to get ahold of the fire chief for the past three
[1:18:34] weeks, and I think she's got a report that's coming in for us, so we are dealing
[1:18:39] with the fire chief with regards to not only access but as well
[1:18:44] emergency services and water supply and all of the pieces
[1:18:49] that our fire department want to be dealing with.
[1:18:53] Well, the reason I say that is because ultimately GPS is going to send them over
[1:18:57] whatever back road it may think the shortest, and that back road takes them into my
[1:19:02] backyard.
[1:19:03] Right.
[1:19:04] And I've got a 12-year-old that runs around like crazy and goes anywhere he
[1:19:10] wants right now. And I really don't want to tell him that he's not-
[1:19:15] That's two entrances. One of them you're not supposed to go in.
[1:19:18] Thank you for all the time. So don't let him kid you that you're not.
[1:19:22] There's means to protect that, certainly.
[1:19:32] So what comes right out your entrance is actually a rain pump.
[1:19:37] And that's
[1:19:39] a concern to you?
[1:19:41] It's just something.
[1:19:43] Okay.
[1:19:43] So it's a different data.
[1:19:48] We're not trying to be adversarial at all.
[1:19:50] We're just trying to lay out some informational facts.
[1:19:54] So the other question that we've heard with regards to wetlands on the
[1:20:00] property and so the six acres versus the
[1:20:04] developed piece and all of that. We've had a certified wetlands
[1:20:09] biologist visit the site. We've had what's called a jurisdictional
[1:20:15] determination report submitted to both New York State DEC and the US Army Corps of
[1:20:21] Engineers. DEC came back and said they have no jurisdiction with regards to the
[1:20:28] wetland areas. Again, wetland has its own definition and own terms.
[1:20:32] But DEC has taken away jurisdiction for New York State.
[1:20:38] There are two wetland systems in our state that we deal with, frankly, the entire
[1:20:43] nation. One is called
[1:20:46] National Wetlands, and that is under the jurisdiction of US Army Corps of
[1:20:50] Engineers. US Army Corps of Engineers has taken jurisdiction of the
[1:20:56] vegetation and the spring area on the site, and as we push
[1:21:02] to the west, that defined boundary has been labeled out.
[1:21:08] And we got a wetlands report. Actually, the biologist that is on our team is a
[1:21:13] consulting biologist, but he's formerly a DEC wetlands biologist.
[1:21:18] He's very well certified, and we can provide the board any of his
[1:21:24] credentials as well. But for that report, we're not cutting corners here.
[1:21:28] We are trying to do due diligence with regards to all of the agencies.
[1:21:33] So just want to kind of clarify to the public that we have looked at the
[1:21:39] property as a whole with regards to the critical environmental
[1:21:45] aspects. Another point that was made, and I'll kind of flip the page a little bit
[1:21:49] with regards to the jurisdiction of the leach field.
[1:21:54] Absolutely correct. Over 1,000 gallons per day is under the jurisdiction of New
[1:21:59] York State DEC. We will have to get a SPDES permit with regards to the discharge.
[1:22:05] Since it's with regards to what DEC has done is typically they
[1:22:11] refer back to the local regional department of health to review
[1:22:18] systems that are subsurface sewage disposal.
[1:22:21] One of the comments that I recently heard is, what is the infiltration rate and
[1:22:25] what are the perk rates? And I think I said in my first presentation that we were
[1:22:29] out on this site. We did- 30 or 40 test pits.
[1:22:34] I have it on.
[1:22:35] And then on this set of plans, you'll see those test pits as well as percolation
[1:22:39] tests. Perecolation tests are done in triplicate, meaning once we pour the water,
[1:22:45] the water receives the dedicated amount, which is a drop of one inch.
[1:22:49] We rate that time, fill it back up, then we run it in triplicate.
[1:22:55] And so the infiltration rates have been defined for the defined
[1:23:00] area with many, many tests that have identified where we can
[1:23:06] provide subsurface sewage disposal for the leachate. And we'll have septic tanks.
[1:23:11] Septic tanks take the solids. We are responsible for maintaining the
[1:23:17] private sewage disposal system. So one of the questions or comments was, who takes
[1:23:21] care of that system? The ownership will take care of the subsurface sewage disposal
[1:23:27] system. Looking at it with regards to the well water
[1:23:32] supply and the overall aquifer and the impact to the aquifer, again, that's why we
[1:23:38] are bringing on a local well driller, Wade Barney,
[1:23:43] Barney Well Drilling, who has done many wells in this area.
[1:23:46] We had good conversations with Mr.
[1:23:49] Barney with regards to what he feels as a local guy who's done
[1:23:55] over 20 wells in this corridor, some commercial, some residential.
[1:24:00] And he's got back of the hand knowledge with regards to this aquifer and what's
[1:24:05] happening. That's why we brought him in.
[1:24:07] He will provide us with a certified report that we can provide to the board that
[1:24:12] talks about it. And what he will do is once that well is drilled, he will run a
[1:24:16] 24-hour drawdown test, meaning he will set his pump rate at the
[1:24:22] desired yield. He will run that for 24 hours, and
[1:24:27] in that 24-hour time frame, he needs to show a sustained drawdown, meaning
[1:24:32] that at whatever pump rate he is at, that the drawdown does not
[1:24:38] move. It is sustained for 24 hours, meaning that that aquifer is solid and
[1:24:44] it's not going to adversely impact, and it's held for a 24-hour period.
[1:24:49] At the end of the 24-hour period, then he grabs samples for water quality analysis,
[1:24:54] because whatever water we get out of here will be considered a public water supply,
[1:24:57] which again, not only our wastewater, but that entire
[1:25:04] well water system will be reviewed by the regional Department of Health as well.
[1:25:07] So they will take a look at how we did the testing, what we've done testing, and as
[1:25:12] I indicated, we are
[1:25:16] thinking that with regards to this overall development, that we're going to put a
[1:25:21] water storage tank. I think someone said, "Well, for the local water supply, maybe
[1:25:27] we should have some tanks." But we're already thinking about for this relatively
[1:25:31] limited development, that we're going to have a water storage tank, and we're going
[1:25:34] to have a water treatment room to make sure that we take care of it.
[1:25:37] Now, we don't know maybe the specifics of the answers to that.
[1:25:39] I can't tell you what that well yield will be.
[1:25:43] I can't tell you exactly what the storage tank will be.
[1:25:46] We're thinking it's between 30,000 to 60,000 gallon storage tank, and that is to
[1:25:51] serve the worst case scenario and as well to help serve a fire demand that
[1:25:57] the fire chief will want for this facility.
[1:26:00] Pretty big.
[1:26:00] So we're already considering that.
[1:26:02] We don't have the exact answers yet, but again, doing our due diligence, we're
[1:26:09] working with those systems. So we've got
[1:26:13] the environmental aspect with regards to wetlands.
[1:26:17] We are looking at the impact with regards to subsurface sewage disposal design,
[1:26:23] which will be a DEC permit, but we're going to work through the regional Department
[1:26:26] of Health. The DEC's going to say, "Department of Health, can you help us out?
[1:26:30] Because this system is more like in your value act than ours." So they
[1:26:36] regularly ask the local regional Department of Health to get involved with that.
[1:26:42] With regards to traffic coming in, Gordon can talk about his experiences with DOT
[1:26:47] and what's happening here in the Route 28 corridor and talk about when we say
[1:26:53] a
[1:26:54] peak hour rate, a number of cars as far as trip generation, that's in a
[1:27:00] peak hour. It isn't the total number of cars that are coming on the site.
[1:27:05] It is during a peak hour based on statistical analysis that that's where his number
[1:27:10] comes about is the trip generation is showing in a peak hour, in that window, that
[1:27:16] the trip generation statistically is showing 30 cars impacting Route 28 at that
[1:27:21] peak window. And again-
[1:27:24] Is that derived from a yearly statistic or a season?
[1:27:28] 30 cars in one period of time.
[1:27:30] In an hour.
[1:27:31] But they all had to leave work at the same time, that peak hour.
[1:27:34] They're going to like, "Oh, we'll go this hour." Okay, you just go at 9:00.
[1:27:38] Okay, there's more people at 10:00. That peak hour, they all go at the same time.
[1:27:42] That's why you can't get in on 28.
[1:27:43] I think that's a yearly statistic.
[1:27:47] Yeah.
[1:27:47] The peak hour changes, especially during changeover day.
[1:27:50] Changeover day, one line goes way past almost to the bottom of 11, and the
[1:27:56] other line goes almost to 400 building. On changeover day.
[1:28:00] They have to go to three parks before they go into your case.
[1:28:03] I don't know, Gordon, how much you can address this if you want.
[1:28:05] No.
[1:28:06] Okay.
[1:28:06] Can I ask you one more question, please?
[1:28:09] Yes.
[1:28:09] You're talking about a $30,000 to $40,000 gallon storage tank.
[1:28:15] Is that right?
[1:28:16] Like I said, we haven't exactly sized it, but we're just-
[1:28:20] Well, the way I've got it, you're using 30,000 to 40,000
[1:28:23] gallons a day. So you're basically telling me you'll have one day's worth of
[1:28:29] water in storage,
[1:28:31] but you're not going to be draining everybody's aquifer because you-
[1:28:33] We'll provide the board with that water balance test first.
[1:28:37] That means that we will provide in our water report the expected
[1:28:43] required amount of water usage, and we'll provide that water
[1:28:49] equation based on the well yield versus the worst case
[1:28:54] scenario for all of the demands on the property.
[1:28:58] I don't have those numbers in front of me, so I don't want to quote that.
[1:29:01] Okay. The stop light you find is at an acceptable level, besides look acceptable
[1:29:05] is...
[1:29:07] You hired a,
[1:29:11] what is it, a
[1:29:15] wetland expert? Was it? Who paid him?
[1:29:20] AECOM.
[1:29:20] Who paid him?
[1:29:21] Our development team with AECOM.
[1:29:25] I think that's perfect.
[1:29:28] And it's just reviewed by the US Army Corps of Engineers.
[1:29:32] That jurisdictional report-
[1:29:34] No, I don't think so. We need to move this on.
[1:29:38] Okay. Again, I know the question will boil to the group, but certainly we're going
[1:29:42] to respond to the planning board agent, right, so thanks.
[1:29:45] Just have one small question. One question.
[1:29:49] How much space are this between each
[1:29:55] structure?
[1:29:56] About 18 feet.
[1:29:58] 18 feet.
[1:30:01] That's what,
[1:30:07] so I was thinking two points, which is 17. That's 20 between buildings.
[1:30:10] So it's 18 between the pads, that's the building.
[1:30:13] I'm sure it's 18.
[1:30:14] Okay.
[1:30:15] So between each one-
[1:30:17] Next question
[1:30:18] ... it's 20 feet, and then between the rows, how much is it?
[1:30:24] The row is 24 to slide.
[1:30:28] Under the rows. It's rows of-
[1:30:33] Okay.
[1:30:33] So in other words, the two rows that are together, how much space between
[1:30:38] each-
[1:30:44] So
[1:31:05] Greg, you've been I think more than really generous-
[1:31:08] Yes
[1:31:08] ... in having the interaction with everyone who has taken the time and the interest
[1:31:13] to come out.
[1:31:14] And we understand the concerns.
[1:31:16] The board definitely have a couple questions about that.
[1:31:19] Okay.
[1:31:25] So we have a test question for you. I missed the last month's meeting, so maybe
[1:31:31] this was already answered, but are all of the RVs provided, or
[1:31:35] will there be any spaces for people hauling an RV from out of
[1:31:41] town to park it at your lot, or are these all prefab RVs?
[1:31:47] I'll be back. So don't anticipate hearing me enroll government.
[1:31:54] For a 4,000 draw. These are all the people impacted that are the kind of,
[1:32:00] we expect, the expectation is that these baseball families will ride in with
[1:32:06] usually one car, right? No car is really-
[1:32:11] So it's-
[1:32:12] Oh, gotcha. So one second.
[1:32:15] Perfect.
[1:32:16] So I did have a question as well, and I know we did hear some questions and some
[1:32:21] concerns about economic impact and jobs.
[1:32:25] Has there been any studies put together by yourself or your operation,
[1:32:31] how many jobs might be involved here?
[1:32:33] Yeah, a feasibility study done, and there is nine total jobs that will be
[1:32:39] created.
[1:32:43] So that's four of those vehicles trying to be around the digital.
[1:32:48] Oh, very good.
[1:32:51] Is there any other planning board members having questions?
[1:32:54] I just want to, I don't know.
[1:32:57] I just reiterate that,
[1:33:02] yeah, the importance of potential land use law for projects like these is
[1:33:07] something for town residents to think about because this is a campground, and
[1:33:13] in the town, without zoning or land use law, people have
[1:33:19] freedom to really do whatever they want.
[1:33:21] So, just something to think about.
[1:33:26] And not something that is addressed by the planning board that is a town hall.
[1:33:31] Yes.
[1:33:33] Yeah. The original traffic study they used submitted, sir, 62,
[1:33:39] and the plan changed to 76. So we got the board feel a lot more
[1:33:45] comfortable about initial traffic study at your expense.
[1:33:51] And on the other, it's very important as well.
[1:33:55] In reality, that would put it off till next summer.
[1:33:58] So I know you want to progress forward. We didn't.
[1:34:01] Oh, yeah, we did a traffic study with 76 units. Elise, did you share that with us?
[1:34:07] Yes, sir.
[1:34:09] Okay. Well, we said no because said it was normal position.
[1:34:14] We can make sure that it's the right way. We have updated it so. Yeah.
[1:34:18] I do have a follow-up question, and this is something that we've been talking about
[1:34:23] for many years with regards Route 28 and traffic studies, and the
[1:34:29] reality of what a changeover day is, that emergency vehicles cannot get
[1:34:35] through. Sheriff deputy patrol can't go through. The traffic is like a standstill.
[1:34:41] And yet all of the studies come back and say, "Well,
[1:34:47] it's really not a big thing." But on the day of the changeover, in
[1:34:53] those certain hours, it is a significant concern.
[1:34:58] People are late for work. People have to go out of their way to get to work.
[1:35:03] An ambulance couldn't get through.
[1:35:05] Like, how do we take that reality and turn it into a
[1:35:11] traffic study that could actually change what that space
[1:35:17] looks like?
[1:35:18] So I'm going to put in how often does changeover day?
[1:35:21] Every week.
[1:35:23] Every six days.
[1:35:24] No.
[1:35:25] Twice.
[1:35:26] You don't know? Of course you should know.
[1:35:35] So
[1:35:42] the changeover day, that's a primary concern.
[1:35:46] Unfortunately, that's something that is probably a very wide study that needs to be
[1:35:50] done. I would recommend you reach out to like the MPO.
[1:35:59] Also, there needs to be a broader study than the-- So it needs to be a broader
[1:36:05] study, but the impact is little right there.
[1:36:08] But-
[1:36:08] Well, again, talking about that time for the output.
[1:36:12] No, but the source impact of this is right there. I understand.
[1:36:15] We there, too, proceed, try to back it up very quickly.
[1:36:19] I think what the gentleman is trying to tell us is that that study
[1:36:24] exceeds his scope to be able to study it out.
[1:36:27] So what-
[1:36:28] And it's a DOT study.
[1:36:32] It's all over beach. What we're doing, I'll put all the
[1:36:37] hard work.
[1:36:38] That looks like... Did I not say that?
[1:36:40] No, no, you're totally right. So our traffic study, it focuses on the peak
[1:36:46] hours of the roads on a typical day.
[1:36:49] So I understand that that's a recurring day, and that's something that we can
[1:36:53] address when we talk with DOT.
[1:36:56] But I want to clarify just a couple of quick things on traffic study just for
[1:37:00] everyone's education. The traffic study looks at three scenarios.
[1:37:04] It looks at the existing operation, it looks at a background design year operation
[1:37:09] with growth and traffic, and it looks at build condition with the traffic added.
[1:37:13] That was one of the questions that was asked.
[1:37:15] So there are three scenarios that we look at. We don't just look at existing.
[1:37:20] But ultimately, and I guess also the other issue is the site distance.
[1:37:24] We take site distance measurements, we compare them to design values, based on
[1:37:29] design speeds that are out there,
[1:37:32] observed operating speeds, and we make sure that our site distance meets that
[1:37:37] design criteria.
[1:37:39] Based on our measurements, they do.
[1:37:42] That will all be reviewed by New York State DOT, because they have to do a permit
[1:37:46] for that access. So they are very stringent on site distance.
[1:37:51] They are very stringent on the methodology and traffic study.
[1:37:54] As I said, I've done, in my current career and my job where I've
[1:38:00] probably done 2,000 traffic studies. DOT is a very stringent reviewer.
[1:38:06] We're not sneaking things by them.
[1:38:09] We don't fabricate our numbers because we're being paid by the developer.
[1:38:12] The developer has to pay for the studies because no one else will.
[1:38:16] You're not going to do it on paper, studies for people to build things.
[1:38:21] So, we're bound by ethics codes. Our license will be revoked if we're fudging
[1:38:26] numbers. If I did that, I wouldn't be in business for 30 years.
[1:38:31] But the broader issue with the corridor, it is a problem, and it
[1:38:37] needs to be, if it's focused on that intersection.
[1:38:42] The biggest time to address that is when Three Parks is coming in for expansion.
[1:38:47] Because if you're talking about them expanding their operation, that's when they
[1:38:51] have to do a study, and they have to address their access, because that's the
[1:38:56] fundamental stop.
[1:38:59] But that's the best answer I can give you.
[1:39:02] You should talk about it. It's still being stated, though, from the current ability
[1:39:06] of the new draft.
[1:39:08] So a lot of times, I'm from Chenango.
[1:39:10] It's like a very small rural village as well, and we have a-- It's
[1:39:16] not the same situation. I was understanding, you have an intersection that is a
[1:39:22] classic accident problem. It's just that the road become a bypass with the casino
[1:39:26] that came in. There's speeding, there's issues, and ultimately the New York
[1:39:32] State Policy and Preparation, which is our MPO.
[1:39:37] I did a study on the intersection. There was
[1:39:41] questionnaires went out to the entire village.
[1:39:44] I had my input as a resident, and they provided recommendations on how to improve
[1:39:49] that intersection as a town intersection, because it's not on state roadways, it's
[1:39:53] not on county roadways. So, reaching out to your MPO is the best way to address
[1:39:58] that broader regional issue you're having.
[1:40:01] Yeah. What does MPO stand for? I have to say-
[1:40:03] Multi-County Transportation Company.
[1:40:06] Yeah, I don't think they're one of those, though.
[1:40:08] Did you work with Sean Murphy at all in Binghamton?
[1:40:11] Yeah.
[1:40:11] I saw that name. You worked with Sean Murphy for years.
[1:40:13] Okay. Yeah
[1:40:14] I think he does a lot of it. They have their kind of site plan review committee.
[1:40:18] They're out of the New York State DOT out of Binghamton.
[1:40:21] Yeah, Binghamton has a very good-
[1:40:23] Yeah
[1:40:23] ... coordinator for Binghamton.
[1:40:25] So I think they oversee our county, too, because for all the-- Like these things,
[1:40:31] highway work permits with the permits and everything, like traffic impact studies,
[1:40:36] those only go to,
[1:40:38] yeah, the Binghamton office. So that's who we would be, I
[1:40:42] guess, work with.
[1:40:47] So.
[1:40:48] English would be-
[1:40:49] English, yeah
[1:40:50] ... this whole thing with Green Park, it just is become a not just a homey
[1:40:55] village, it's a regional issue
[1:40:58] The traffic patterns have moved to 205 to avoid the nightmarish 200.
[1:41:04] So now 205 has a big impact on traffic going through there. People live on 205.
[1:41:11] You have gone from probably, let's say, one car every 60 seconds to
[1:41:17] 15 cars a second in peak hours because everybody's learned that is the way around
[1:41:23] it. But people are going nowhere to get to that pocket.
[1:41:28] You can't get to that pocket. If you work there, it's not going to get
[1:41:34] there.
[1:41:35] So that's part of the frustration.
[1:41:37] There you go, it is affecting the entire area, not just Rte.
[1:41:44] 3. So this probably is pushing people that we need around there to have a town
[1:41:49] request, or that's the thing. The other thing,
[1:41:55] there's not a lot being done to improve our infrastructure.
[1:41:58] The state doesn't do much.
[1:42:00] Pretty universally statewide,
[1:42:04] the state is just more of a maintenance versus an infrastructure.
[1:42:08] I think-
[1:42:11] I agree with you
[1:42:14] ...
[1:42:17] I don't have a lot of faith in the Department of Transportation, as you've said.
[1:42:21] I won't break the comment.
[1:42:25] I would like to say, and I know I made this comment earlier, and I know that it
[1:42:30] was...
[1:42:35] But if the traffic is traveling to and from Greens Farm,
[1:42:41] having facilities closer to the farm will bring that traffic in instead
[1:42:47] of having to drive, as they're saying, drive 10 miles in or whatever.
[1:42:52] It will reduce some of the traffic outside of the immediate area that's already
[1:42:55] here anyway.
[1:42:56] Mm-hmm.
[1:42:56] So this isn't really generating new traffic.
[1:42:59] This is how the traffic that's going across the road.
[1:43:05] In public.
[1:43:11] On the 15th.
[1:43:12] Cool.
[1:43:15] Going establishment, I think, because when they apply for that, they're going to
[1:43:21] create a whole other type of private frontage because even the
[1:43:25] people that live
[1:43:29] in townhouses and apartments, they have their own separate entrances.
[1:43:34] No, they don't. They bought.
[1:43:35] Sometimes
[1:43:37] people from wherever, California, that don't want
[1:43:43] to be
[1:43:46] Into the already existing section with the giant homes.
[1:43:52] We'll say I don't think they're allowing any RVC.
[1:43:54] They're not allowing anything stationary.
[1:43:57] Not going to allow traffic, nothing will allow them in. It's not there.
[1:44:01] They're really going to shift.
[1:44:02] Those buildings
[1:44:08] themselves are taxable.
[1:44:10] Like that.
[1:44:14] Like 200 bucks. It's 100 bucks.
[1:44:18] Not taxable, but I think that's bizarre.
[1:44:22] Right.
[1:44:24] Well, I think with the planning board, we have a couple things that we want.
[1:44:29] That they're a little testy where we
[1:44:31] can navigate this whole
[1:44:38] application. We want it to be sure that we're following all the
[1:44:44] things that we do in the right order, and we do have the ability to engage our own
[1:44:50] planning board to go through that process.
[1:44:55] And that is something that I would suggest that-
[1:44:59] Well, we have an attorney.
[1:45:01] Okay. Yeah
[1:45:02] And we have her back at the attorney. So we have no guidance there at this moment.
[1:45:08] And then the other thing is the engineering firm.
[1:45:11] Oh, okay. So could you tell us a little bit about that very quickly?
[1:45:14] Well, we don't have one. So I guess the question is, I've heard there's a board
[1:45:19] want to engage their own engineering firm to basically check
[1:45:25] the reports that we're getting to make sure that they agree.
[1:45:31] Being that none of us are engineers, I think that's a great idea to have a
[1:45:37] third party.
[1:45:40] Who would pay for that?
[1:45:41] Who would pay for that?
[1:45:42] Comes from the escrow that is provided by the developer.
[1:45:47] Not.
[1:45:50] We haven't had a project this large in some time.
[1:45:57] So we haven't really... We might want to do it, but the
[1:46:02] escrow account we have, we can do that, right?
[1:46:07] Have that, so we won't do that. I'll do that.
[1:46:13] And yeah, we'll have two different ones.
[1:46:20] Yes.
[1:46:20] And
[1:46:22] is that the last thing?
[1:46:24] Tonight.
[1:46:30] $2 million.
[1:46:32] So it doesn't really matter. Escrow is just money we're going to have in our
[1:46:37] account. But whatever it costs, then they'll have
[1:46:43] to pick it up.
[1:46:44] So bottom line, any additional studies that are required are borne
[1:46:50] by the escrow account provided by the developer, not the taxpayers of
[1:46:56] Northborough.
[1:46:58] Right.
[1:46:59] So the board decided on 1%.
[1:47:04] I have a question, right. I won't take a minute.
[1:47:07] If Warren Higgins were here, he'd be making them litigate.
[1:47:10] He'd be saying-
[1:47:11] No, you're way ahead of time
[1:47:12] ... We're not there yet.
[1:47:13] No, we're not there yet.
[1:47:14] I know, but I'm just saying they're proposing a certain number of units, and
[1:47:20] it's a really tight density, and I'm just saying at some future point or whatever,
[1:47:26] maybe there's an ability to tone it down so that it's more of a rural
[1:47:32] character, it's less impact, et cetera.
[1:47:35] They may decide that that's not cost-effective.
[1:47:37] In other words, they want this number, they want this density.
[1:47:41] But I don't think the town wants this number and this density.
[1:47:44] That's what I'm getting. So maybe there's a way to build something that's
[1:47:50] resort, whatever, on the mill, fine.
[1:47:55] But this is really dense on a lot of numbers.
[1:48:00] I think that's what most of us are feeling.
[1:48:04] Like what?
[1:48:05] It's something-
[1:48:06] In your own building.
[1:48:10] Mm-hmm.
[1:48:10] The recycling as well as the traffic study.
[1:48:15] Whatever else we need to do.
[1:48:18] Oh, I see.
[1:48:19] Interesting that whatever other engineering issues that we need them to address for
[1:48:25] us.
[1:48:27] Okay.
[1:48:28] Okay, we have a motion and second. All in favor? Aye.
[1:48:34] Okay. The town, I believe, will check in.
[1:48:36] I'm not sure with all this, the town being host on something.
[1:48:40] Yeah, we do too.
[1:48:42] Tony, is that what you guys are usually using?
[1:48:45] For engineering?
[1:48:46] Yeah. I see that in emails and stuff a lot.
[1:48:49] I think that's an option. I haven't used anything since we've been on, so-
[1:48:53] Okay. So you don't have an actual-
[1:48:55] Delaware.
[1:48:57] Delaware.
[1:48:57] Delaware.
[1:48:58] You don't have to vote on that one.
[1:49:04] Let me see if I did.
[1:49:06] Yeah, in-
[1:49:08] If you even have to vote on that.
[1:49:10] Kevin has
[1:49:11] another
[1:49:19] zoning term, which is why it's a challenge.
[1:49:22] Okay. I just think we're just cleaning on you, Bill.
[1:49:28] Oh, no. They alerted.
[1:49:31] Oh, okay.
[1:49:31] Yeah, that was your email.
[1:49:32] Oh, okay. Yeah. Those were. Yeah, we have all the
[1:49:38] Yeah. We're going to send it to you.
[1:49:47] Yeah. So when we go back, we don't put all the-
[1:49:49] Yeah, Delaware, all the accessory buildings. That's the entire thing.
[1:49:54] This way, this the agreement? Yeah, I can find.
[1:49:59] That's acceptable to people?
[1:50:05] Yeah, so then now we're going to take the
[1:50:13] allocation that's going to.
[1:50:21] So at least that someone's going to...
[1:50:28] You
[1:50:30] do want to have
[1:50:34] physical presence or at
[1:50:37] least
[1:50:41] home presence or something.
[1:50:44] So we need to vote on table.
[1:50:47] Oh, yes, right.
[1:50:49] We'll get a table down, please.
[1:50:51] One second. On table, all right.
[1:50:54] Any way you can informally
[1:51:00] get some input from the NPO?
[1:51:03] Yeah, definitely.
[1:51:06] Yeah.
[1:51:07] That's been such
[1:51:10] a long-
[1:51:11] So they have, like, a regional site plan view, and normally,
[1:51:16] yeah, any of these applications, they have views.
[1:51:18] But I don't know, it's further along after the project's-
[1:51:22] So our reps.
[1:51:24] Oh,
[1:51:25] okay.
[1:51:28] If you're looking at a larger...
[1:51:31] Reach out to Sean Murphy and ask the planning department, looks at it through the
[1:51:36] development as well.
[1:51:38] Oh, yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay.
[1:51:41] A lot of times they'll, they may start something.
[1:51:44] They'll give in a request from the top.
[1:51:46] Okay.
[1:51:47] I can't ask them to do a quarter or something.
[1:51:51] Yeah. No, that's just like-
[1:51:52] They have their own planning department.
[1:51:55] Yeah, they have their own professionals.
[1:51:58] So in regards to this staff that they may like, they're able to come to the
[1:52:01] drummer.
[1:52:02] Yeah, exactly.
[1:52:03] Potentially. What we want is almost the region.
[1:52:07] Yeah.
[1:52:08] So yeah, because of the effect on the entire region.
[1:52:12] Yeah.
[1:52:13] So hopefully, and like you were saying, hopefully if Green Park comes back into us
[1:52:17] for something else,
[1:52:19] possibly improve things over there.
[1:52:21] I heard from Pat, whatever, actually made a suggestion to Green Park to do a second
[1:52:27] lane off of 280.
[1:52:32] I think that's the idea I myself had.
[1:52:39] Any other things that we need to do as a board?
[1:52:46] None come to mind.
[1:52:49] I suppose-
[1:52:52] Oh, I have one, Greg.
[1:52:54] Sure.
[1:52:54] It's the more of a site plan question-
[1:52:58] Uh-huh.
[1:52:58] About the gentleman who called me.
[1:53:02] Is the road frontage for a lot, if they were to do a split, is it 200 feet?
[1:53:08] And if it's less than 200 feet, does it-
[1:53:11] It's lucky.
[1:53:12] It is. What is-
[1:53:15] If it's less than 100 foot
[1:53:17] ... that's being online yourself?
[1:53:20] Yeah, because there could be an actual access problem. It depends.
[1:53:25] Sometimes we have to look at-
[1:53:27] Okay, fine
[1:53:28] ... because what can happen is, say somebody's giving you that 50 feet, no
[1:53:33] permit.
[1:53:35] Oh, yeah, yeah. Now-
[1:53:36] You have no access.
[1:53:37] Yeah.
[1:53:37] So now there's a problem.
[1:53:38] Okay. So I'll just, I'll call this gentleman back and tell him to get in touch with
[1:53:44] me.
[1:53:45] Yeah. And basically he's coming to the board, and it'll determine what it is. So.
[1:53:49] Okay. All right. Sounds fair.
[1:53:53] And we do, okay, so we still have that, right? He's still here.
[1:53:58] Oh, yeah.
[1:53:59] Okay. So we did have somebody, but
[1:54:02] you want to put him ahead of
[1:54:05] us because we already know
[1:54:08] Garing.
[1:54:09] I wonder if this is him.
[1:54:10] This is what was here.
[1:54:11] Yeah, that's who you were. That's who-
[1:54:13] There's two of them, no.
[1:54:14] Oh, this is John Hayne. Yeah.
[1:54:15] Yeah.
[1:54:16] This is not the one I was just-
[1:54:17] So basically, he's going to do a minor subdivision.
[1:54:20] Because of, yeah, minor subdivision.
[1:54:23] Because it makes three lots. It's no good.
[1:54:25] It looks like it'll be minor subs a little
[1:54:26] bit more. They recovered it
[1:54:32] pretty well. And they reached out to a friend.
[1:54:50] Where does this one
[1:55:07] end?
[1:55:24] On the road?
[1:55:25] Question mark.
[1:55:28] This one goes
[1:55:34] here. Goes through. This one goes
[1:55:40] here.
[1:55:51] He's not moving.
[1:55:53] Oh, okay. Hold on.
[1:55:56] It's
[1:56:30] all
[1:57:04] his
[1:57:07] lots.