[1:20] Our
[1:28] Father in heaven, be thy name. Thres
[1:41] for those who tresass against us. Lead
us not into
[1:46] us from evil. Th kingdom power.
Amen.
[1:59] For which stands one nation.
[2:10] This chair is hard. Madam follow.
>> Miss Miller here.
[2:17] Dr. Miller,
>> Mr. St. Clia,
[2:20] » present,
>> Mr. Msina
[2:22] » present,
>> Mr. Ethley
[2:24] » here,
>> Miss Davis
[2:25] » here,
>> five present.
[2:27] » Thank you. So, we do have a quorum
with five members present today. Um,
[2:33] being that this is a special call
meeting. Uh this is as we all know in
[2:38] part uh as it pertains to recent changes
with the police department schedule um
[2:42] and the updates that have happened. You
only have one um handout in front of you
[2:46] outside of the agenda. That is a handout
of over an overtime report that contains
[2:53] three specific reports um and we'll go
through those. The first report is a
[2:57] year-to-ate look at overtime for the
police department. So everything from uh
[3:02] January 1st through August. Uh the
second report is a report month in July
[3:09] and the third report for the month of
August. So we'll look at all three of
[3:13] those. Um that's what's packet. So um I
want
[3:19] the chief is here today and I'm going to
yield the floor to him uh briefly but um
[3:25] I want to give a quick timeline of just
some of the changes and maybe I should
[3:30] get into the mic a little more. I want
to give a brief uh timeline of some of
[3:33] the changes that were made over the last
month um and somewhat over the last
[3:38] couple of weeks. So, April of this year,
if you all remember, I alerted the
[3:43] council and police department that
overtime spending was nearly at capacity
[3:47] for budget um for what was set for this
year. For this year, our budget for
[3:51] overtime for police was $110,000. That's
what we said we would um budget for. The
[3:57] directive was for the department to
contain overtime as much as possible uh
[4:02] moving forward through the rest of the
year. So, um my stance has been that
[4:06] overtime can't completely stop, but we
have to monitor it a lot more closely so
[4:10] that uh we're not um we're not spending
taxpayer dollars unnecessarily. June,
[4:17] July, and August reports reported
consistent overtime usage despite the
[4:20] directive for a shift. August 20th, the
city council approved new vehicles for
[4:25] the police department. And I shared with
the chief that over time um would be
[4:30] capped. Monday, August 24th, at 1:46
p.m., an email marked urgent was sent to
[4:37] both fire and police departments that
overtime was being overhauled by the
[4:41] administrative department. So, there was
an email sent to both fire and police
[4:45] for the same reason. Overtime's got to
be slowed down. The course of action
[4:50] stem from the fact that both departments
were over budget as related to overtime.
[4:53] Both departments were instructed to
create new schedules um to change new
[4:58] schedule changes to curb overtime when
not necessary by Friday, August 28th.
[5:03] The email also contained an overtime
request approval form for circumstances
[5:08] where departments may need it. So, I
want to emphasize overhauling overtime
[5:12] and capping it is not the administrative
department's way of saying that there
[5:16] will be no more overtime. overtime just
has to be slowed down. So what we've
[5:20] implemented has been an over overtime
approval um form that is uh that can be
[5:25] found through the HR office. Um,
Wednesday, September 2nd, it was um it
[5:32] was noted by the by HR department that
12 shift 12-h hour shifts were still set
[5:37] for the police department, allowing
police officers to earn an extra four
[5:40] hours of overtime per day that they
completed a single shift um barring any
[5:45] extra hours that they may have made up
for someone else. Also on Wednesday,
[5:49] September 2nd, um the chief did respond
via email to share his thoughts about
[5:53] switching from a 12-h hour shift to an 8
hour shift, stating that safety was the
[5:58] main concern amongst those shift
changes. Friday, September 4th, a reply
[6:03] was sent to the chief stating that the
concerns were noted and would still we
[6:07] would still move to an 8 hour shift um
by Monday, September 7th. Monday,
[6:12] September 7th, yesterday being the first
day that the new schedule would take
[6:15] place, so that the city would be good
stewards of finances that residents
[6:20] entrusted to us. Monday, September 7th,
Chief Sanders uh called uh the mayor's
[6:26] office or the mayor at 6:42, this is
yesterday, at 6:42 a.m. and 12:22 p.m.
[6:31] to acknowledge that officers called out
sick and were not reporting to work. The
[6:36] first day, um I I'll remind you of the
new changes. information was officially
[6:41] shared at 10:06 p.m. in special
department and a special department
[6:44] meeting was called at 2:30 where I
joined the department for um a whole
[6:48] department meeting at the justice
complex at 2:30. During the special
[6:52] department meeting at 2:30 um I
explained the changes to the department
[6:55] directly so that they would understand
the purpose behind the changes and asked
[6:59] for any clarity that they needed.
concerns from the police department
[7:03] mentioned namely also stemmed from
around safety but also touched on pay
[7:08] that they were or were not making in
current positions. Um as that point came
[7:13] up at different times throughout the
conversation. I assured the department
[7:17] that all concerns did not fall on debt
fears that I will begin to work and look
[7:21] for solutions immediately u with the
council but also the chief of staff and
[7:26] that taxpayer dollars were not free
money to tie that we could tie into
[7:29] 12-hour schedules.
At 8:45 this morning um I met with Chief
[7:34] Sanders again and the chief of staff to
understand how the new schedule was
[7:38] progressing and if any adjustments
needed to be made. And as of
[7:42] approximately 12:59 this afternoon, I
spoke with the chief to understand and
[7:46] understood the officers were no longer
calling in sick. So um and I want to I
[7:54] know that uh Dr. Miller also
simultaneously kind of sent this request
[7:58] out for um a meeting, but uh we did have
officers call out yesterday. Um the call
[8:04] outs were due to sickness. Um and my
assessment I do believe that the new
[8:10] schedule um capping it capping schedule
time from 12 hours to 8 hours taking out
[8:15] direct overtime was part of that. That's
my assessment and um what I share with
[8:21] the department was
um it's my belief as mayor that for the
[8:26] city to run effectively every department
has to be equipped as as best equipped
[8:30] as it can be. And we have a situation
currently where that's going to take
[8:35] some being some creative thinking and
some um out of the box thinking that
[8:39] sometimes um but
[8:44] their trucks that they just got or the
vehicles that they just got that you all
[8:47] approved on August 20th was something
that I noted. Um I did not directly
[8:51] propose the bonus. Um the raise and
salary was not directly my idea that I
[8:57] put on the agenda back in um late this
summer, but I know the previous mayor,
[9:02] Mayor Franklin, um and this council
discussed that and we did put that on
[9:06] the agenda and we did get that passed.
So part of the conversation was um
[9:12] amongst this group was how does overtime
continue to look in the future? And um
[9:18] we're here today because I think that
that schedule actually kicking off in
[9:22] part was not necessarily um ideal for
some folks. So um I do want to yield to
[9:29] the chief because [snorts] I know that
this body may have questions. I think
[9:32] it's great that the chief is here and um
open up the fork for discussion.
[9:42] » Basically just what the mayor said. Uh I
received a call Monday morning
[9:45] yesterday. from dispatch. Uh, nobody was
at work.
[9:50] I proceeded to take calls from 6:00 to
roughly 12:00 p.m. 6:00 a.m. to 12:00
[9:55] p.m. by myself.
Uh, I finally got a hold to some of my
[10:00] officers. Again, some showed, some
didn't. The ones that didn't did call in
[10:05] sick. Uh, I received some assistance
from state police and the sheriff
[10:11] department. Uh but I will note every
call for service was answered by Hel was
[10:17] held in the police department. There was
no call left unanswered. The city had
[10:21] covered while from 6 to 12 it was just
me. Every call got answered.
[10:27] I do appreciate and commend the officers
that did show up and work elbow to elbow
[10:31] with me. And again I do thank the
Arkansas State Police and Philips County
[10:36] Sheriff's Office for specifically also.
I yield the floor to you all for any
[10:42] questions you may have.
>> So, this was 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. was
[10:47] where we had the the coverage issues.
>> Well, I would say it was a safety issue.
[10:52] I was by myself, but
>> Yes, sir.
[10:54] » I answered every call for service,
>> but but the I'm just I understand.
[10:59] » Yes, sir. I know you're very confident
that 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. is that
[11:06] » Yes.
>> Okay. And then um the officers that came
[11:10] in, were those regularly scheduled or
these were officers who were not called?
[11:15] » The one that came um he wasn't scheduled
to work the time that he came.
[11:20] » Okay.
>> And he worked later.
[11:22] » So he came earlier.
>> He came early. He was on vacation.
[11:26] » I got
>> technically he wasn't supposed to be
[11:28] there at all that day.
>> Okay.
[11:29] » Yesterday.
>> Okay.
[11:31] » I called. He answered. We got it taken
care of.
[11:35] » Okay. And then the um
>> the the other two that came, they were
[11:40] on schedule. They worked their shifts.
>> Okay. Now the uh this earnings detail,
[11:46] have you looked at it?
>> Yes.
[11:47] » Okay. Is this is this just their
earnings or is this also included?
[11:51] » That's including overtime.
>> How do we know what's overtime? What is
[11:54] there a separate category in?
>> I don't know what y'all have when I
[11:58] thought it was separated.
>> So what you all have and I should
[12:00] provide that context at the beginning.
So what you have on pages 105 through
[12:05] five, okay, this is overtime as it
relates to um every officer. So this is
[12:11] » So this isrict strictly overtime
>> um page 101 right after five and it's
[12:17] dated at the top um
August, not August, but July 1st through
[12:22] July 31st. That is of overtime for the
month of July. And then the final two
[12:27] pages are overtime for the um final
month of August. So, I'll share with you
[12:32] a little bit of what I shared with the
department yesterday. And and these
[12:35] conversations, um, I want to be honest
and candid. They're not fun. Um, I I I
[12:39] shared that in as as many details or as
many ways as I could with the
[12:43] department. Um, if you look for yourself
just through different um different or
[12:51] different payroll reports, um, in some
cases, take home pay for overtime has
[12:56] been 6,000, then 5,000, it's been 4,000.
It's not that's not sustainable. Um,
[13:04] today
>> per month per per pay period in some
[13:07] cases per pay period. Cool.
>> Um,
[13:11] » to date,
>> that for the whole department. Yeah.
[13:14] » Yeah. For
>> the whole
[13:17] for so
>> there were some takehome periods for two
[13:21] weeks where officers had as much as
$3,000 of overtime. So I I'll direct you
[13:26] to um back of page five out of five. So
July, the month of July. Um as you look
[13:32] at July, it's the sixth page in your
packet. Um you can look down the totals.
[13:37] um the highest earning officer for that
particular um pay period was for that
[13:43] particular month was 6 thou was right at
6,000 right now 6,000. So
[13:49] there are some high totals coming
through um the police department in
[13:53] terms of what payroll people are taking
home and my assessment was that it was
[13:58] because of how we were structuring the
schedule. Um I do know and and I feel
[14:02] like I've been on record for saying
this. I believe that city employees
[14:07] definitely need to have um higher wages.
I think that some of our wages across
[14:12] the board are not where they should be,
especially in 2026, but we have to do
[14:16] that in a way that's responsible and a
way that makes sense. So, um looking at
[14:21] these reports, I just want to draw your
attention page five out of five. As of
[14:25] right now through August, our total um
police overtime is right at $199,212.93.
[14:34] And again, our budgeted line item for
the year was 110. And it's my and I want
[14:39] to say this, it's my understanding that
I mean 110 100,000 has kind of been an
[14:45] arbitrary number that we've used for
overtime and and if we needed to amend
[14:51] or adjust that number, that's what we
would do. Um and we're at a point now
[14:56] where where overtime just has to be
slowed down. So that so that's what the
[14:59] report is to show you just kind of some
of those um high totals.
[15:20] What is what is your thought on
correcting all this all this old time?
[15:27] What what do you think? I mean, you're
in the
[15:30] » the mill doing it involve overseeing
this. How do you feel you can cut this
[15:37] out?
>> We just need more officers. That's in
[15:40] the short in the short answer. We just
need more officers.
[15:43] » More officers.
>> Yes.
[15:47] » How many do you board do you need? I
think fully staffed probably we had I
[15:54] probably need like another nine officer.
[15:58] » You need nine more.
>> Yes.
[16:00] » Is what you need.
>> And what are you doing to recruit
[16:07] those?
>> You have the slots and they're open,
[16:11] » right?
>> Uh and you have occupation to fill them,
[16:15] » correct? So, uh, what are you doing to
get those slots filled so we can cut out
[16:20] this whole time?
>> I would say what I'm doing, but I'll
[16:23] speak for the whole department. U,
every officer carries application. We're
[16:28] talking to everybody. Um, I'm at the
college three, four times a week.
[16:33] Everybody that I talk to that I feel
like is a qualified applicant, I'm
[16:36] trying to get them in. We just got a hit
on Indeed.
[16:40] Uh, we we're online and everywhere.
We're doing everything we can. Uh, I
[16:45] tell you a story that I told the mayor.
I had a guy sold everything. He was
[16:50] ready to go. The ideal officer the
county offered him about $3 more
[16:54] dollars. He called and said, "Thank you,
but better opportunities." The officers
[16:59] that I did hire when y'all agreed upon
the waves, uh, the ones that left is
[17:04] better opportunities, more money, uh,
different divisions, they just they said
[17:08] they just wanted to grow their career.
[17:12] Okay.
[17:15] Yeah, overtime was down at one point. I
I'll say that we lost officers. They
[17:22] most of most of them left and it wasn't
because of the city. It wasn't because
[17:26] of departments. It was they got offered
better jobs or better money. What it
[17:32] came down to.
>> And when we asked for our raise, we
[17:36] asked for it to be competitive.
>> To be more competitive,
[17:40] » right? Have you uh spoken to the mayor
about this problem you're having? Have
[17:46] you discussed you you have discussed
this with the mayor?
[17:50] » And u
[17:54] given the city's financial uh situation
right now,
[18:01] I think a another raise is totally out
of question. We need equipment and
[18:05] everything. Uh,
I don't want to talk about water and
[18:09] garbage, but I mean, I know in
[clears throat] my right mind that I
[18:11] can't come in here and say I need more
money for my offices right now.
[18:16] The water, the water department works
just as hard as us. The fire department
[18:19] work just as hard as us. Street and
sanitation works just as hard as us. We
[18:23] all need more money. The mayor has been
on record every meeting.
[18:26] » Every city employee is under paid just
doing all we can right now to bring in
[18:31] qualified applicants. And you've
discussed this solution with the mayor
[18:36] in in previous meetings,
>> correct?
[18:39] » Okay.
And [snorts] as a council, as a city
[18:43] council, what do you feel if we can do
to help you and the mayor get resolve
[18:49] this problem?
[18:53] » In the short, it it go back to the
dollar. That's that's why we can't
[18:57] really retain or get anybody.
>> But again, I do understand the city's
[19:01] financial strength. Correct. If we
increase the officers, the new new
[19:06] recruits uh bottom line and starting
pay, you think that'll help and then
[19:14] more money for the regular hours. You
think that?
[19:17] » Sure. Most definitely.
>> We cut out this overtime
[19:20] » once we get fully up staff.
>> And what amount do you feel necessary
[19:25] that we need to that you negotiated
with?
[19:31] That's a great question. Uh,
we run towards the bullets. We run
[19:35] towards the chaos. We run towards the
fight.
[19:37] » I mean, you need to be competitive.
>> That's kind of put a number on that. I
[19:42] mean,
I'd say minimum 50,000.
[19:48] » We do the job that I can't. People tell
us every day, how do you do it? I
[19:52] couldn't do what you do.
We need to seek a solution and we need
[19:57] to find the problem to solve it and uh
you need to get with the mayor because
[20:03] we did not know you know what you need
and unless you tell us the council
[20:09] itself
we were unaware of what
[20:15] your negotiations with the mayor
[20:19] I think I think he's been on record for
saying for saying this. I'm not putting
[20:24] the blame game on anybody. But as soon
as I said something about raises, I
[20:28] looked around the room. I saw heads
going down. I saw faces. I'm not
[20:32] ignorant to the fact of where the city
is right now financially.
[20:36] » I understand. No. Right now, I do. But
that's part of the reason I hadn't came.
[20:44] I just understand it.
>> Mr. St. Columbia. I I I I think we ought
[20:49] to be clear about what the record of
this is, the history of it is though. Uh
[20:54] then Chief Bale was at over at the
department last spring, maybe last
[20:59] March. He made a whole presentation to
this body and his presentation was if
[21:05] you raise the level of the entry level
to a certain point, then I can fully
[21:10] staff my department. The concerns then
particularly that I had was that if we
[21:15] didn't fully staff, we'd be paying
overtime at at a an increased rate. But
[21:20] the proposal was made to us and we gave
them what they asked for.
[21:26] We gave it to them.
>> Yeah.
[21:27] » So, we didn't hold back. That was the
proposal that they made. The only thing
[21:30] we held back on was the uh the high
ranking officers and then we did that in
[21:34] February of this year.
So,
[21:39] we didn't It's not like we did, we did
what we were asked to do.
[21:43] » Yeah. Right.
>> Now, in terms of what it takes to keep
[21:46] people in the department, I don't know.
Uh uh that'll be u something for the
[21:50] mayor and the chief to resolve, but
we've done everything that we've been
[21:54] asked to do in terms of pay with the
police department.
[21:56] » Well, you came before us and you asked
for more police cars. We gave you
[22:01] correct
>> what we could afford to do,
[22:03] » right? And we we're trying to do
everything. The council is trying to do
[22:07] everything.
>> I appreciate that to help you.
[22:10] » And
>> I going I go on the record for saying
[22:12] when we got ours, everybody around us
pretty much went up too. So I mean and
[22:18] Chief Bale I go on record for saying
this. I mean
[22:21] » I worked under him. He had maybe I say
easy I know for sure 10 officers. I
[22:28] promised them they were coming if we got
it. Their cities went up. They didn't
[22:31] come.
That's why my parenting officers that
[22:35] that stood side by side with me, they
didn't get their raise. They waited,
[22:41] I don't know, maybe another eight months
before they got their raise. They were
[22:44] training officers, new officers, and
they were making more than they were.
[22:49] That's why I asked her and Mary
announced, "Let's go back before you
[22:52] guys." I think they stood in the gap
long enough. And then I hired
[22:57] X amount of officers. I believe it was
10 at that time. However, they some left
[23:02] just do the better opportunities.
>> Well, we want to do everything we can.
[23:07] We as a council want to do everything we
can to help you
[23:11] resolve this situation. And you need to
get with the mayor and and let make a
[23:17] proposal as to what is necessary
and the action we need to take as a
[23:22] council.
>> No.
[23:25] » I'm not. If if I may, part of the issue
that that you all and I are discussing
[23:29] is actual the the finances of it. Uh
when when Chief Bale made his
[23:34] presentation at the time, we were trying
to match what other departments making
[23:39] that was about $17 an hour. But when
Helen West Holden went up to to $17 an
[23:44] hour, all the other apartments went up
above that. And so I just text the
[23:49] mayor, the chief of Forest City, he said
them starting Saturday between 38 to 42.
[23:54] Chief of Mariana says their starting
salary is $18.35.
[23:58] Uh other cities are saying they're $18.
I tested the chief of Augusta. He said
[24:03] their starting salaries now in Woodro
County are $20 an hour. And so people
[24:09] are raising their salaries. And that's
what the chief was trying to articulate
[24:12] to us is that the salary that we
approved last year was to match everyone
[24:16] else and everyone else raised their
salaries and we didn't. And that's
[24:21] that's the discussion we are now to Ma's
point. Mel did say and and he to remind
[24:26] everyone of it. This is a cycle until
you get to full capacity that we're
[24:30] going to continue to have overtime. It's
we have to get to to full capacity. And
[24:36] this is Mr. Ethley's concerns. He said
he can articulate better than me. He
[24:39] stated it before
>> is that uh if we're not at the full
[24:43] capacity, you're going to continue to
have overtime, overtime, overtime,
[24:47] overtime. You end up spending the money.
this meeting though. I think we're
[24:50] talking about in a little yesterday.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[24:53] » And like I said, we did meet with the
officer yesterday.
[24:58] » Money came up three, four times.
>> I heard something about safety
[25:04] 50 times during that meeting.
>> In our current schedule, six days out of
[25:09] the week, it'll be two officers working
at all times. That's what I heard.
[25:12] That's those are the facts and that's
what they were voicing. Uh, I put that
[25:18] in my email when uh I was talking to the
mayor, expressing my concerns.
[25:23] We still went with the schedule. I had a
meeting with them last Saturday and let
[25:27] them know. This is the new schedule and
everything. Uh,
[25:32] I worked out there. One officer, two
officers become one very fast.
[25:38] I know from yesterday I had a domestic,
I went to a fight, I had a hit and run.
[25:43] I worked all that within an hour and a
half by myself.
[25:48] I I don't say I was scared, but I was
cautious. My adrenaline was pumping.
[25:53] » So I I get what they feel and I
understand the mayor's perspective, too.
[25:57] Like we got to be better stewards of our
money.
[25:59] » I get I think and I'm definitely hearing
and I respect what you're saying. I
[26:03] think the thing that was kind of a
concern is and this it this could be
[26:07] completely perceived. just not
necessarily was was you know as as a
[26:13] city are we being held hostage because
officers doing overtime and it's like
[26:20] that's just not responsible and I'm not
saying necessarily that's what happened
[26:24] but that was a perception
>> and and and so in a situation like that
[26:29] I think those things need to be
communicated. I don't think I don't
[26:32] think there's anybody that's sitting
here at this table that's not expecting
[26:36] that police officer gonna get overtime.
At least I wasn't. I was never in my
[26:40] mind thought that we would not pay
overtime. I knew that that was going to
[26:44] happen. But on the same token, it's like
you got to also get a get a handle. I
[26:49] mean, I'm sure you probably looked at
some of these numbers. Some of these
[26:52] people's overtime is better than some
people's checks, regular day checks. I
[26:55] mean, you know, and I know that's all
that's, you know, you're comparing maybe
[26:59] apples to oranges, but but but the but
the thing is, you know, just guys, get
[27:05] it. Let's get the overtime down. Let's
cut the hours back some we can all work
[27:10] together on this. That I think at least
that's where I'm coming.
[27:14] » I can get you all information because
I'm going to say it because I know it to
[27:18] be true.
But uh
[27:21] we asked them to do a job and I asked
them to stop waiting on a call to go
[27:27] find it.
I'mma wholeheartedly say that every
[27:32] diamond of that overtime was justified.
How many operations have we worked with
[27:36] the FBI, DTL, DTF, DEA? We're working
side by side and those are hours. And
[27:44] I've I've counted where they've called
me like, "Yeah, we're not on the clock,
[27:48] but we're going to go do this with ATF.
We're going to go do this with that with
[27:52] this entity."
The number of operations that we have
[27:57] done this year that probably been more
than the past 10 years.
[28:01] » So, it's being accounted for.
I mean, and that's going to slow down. I
[28:07] mean, it is what it is. We're asking my
investigators to work patrol right now.
[28:11] That's what we're doing. My three
investigators are assigned to patrol.
[28:15] When we get cases,
they're working full-time patrol. It's
[28:20] going to take a minute for them to
investigate. Going to take a minute to
[28:22] get case files in. We're asking them to
essentially do both. But our call volume
[28:28] is high. It is. I'm going to say it how
it is. Our call volume is high. I ask
[28:33] the citizens now, please, I apologize in
advance. Please try to be respectful to
[28:38] my officers, but with two officers
working, there's going to be some late
[28:42] response time
and our training. If there's if there's
[28:47] a domestic, we're both foreign to it. If
it's just two of us. Sorry, ma'am. I'm
[28:52] sorry if you had a hit and run, but we
have to prioritize what we're doing.
[28:58] I mean, we I'm looking at I'm looking in
in the future like
[29:04] what's to come with two officers working
[29:10] » money. I get the money. I do get it. I
promise. I hound on about. Do we have a
[29:16] comparison from this time last year to
look at?
[29:20] » Um I think I think that's a quick email
to the uh treasurer to get that. Sure,
[29:25] we can. It's Yeah, I'd be interested
just to see. I mean, because if
[29:31] what the
from January,
[29:35] » we get the good job after the FBI comes
in and we do indictments with them. We
[29:41] get the good job after we do X, Y, and
Z, after we work with the state police.
[29:48] It's awesome.
The DT the DTF right now have been
[29:54] working with my investigator
since they have to work fulltime
[29:58] control. Now
they're not threatening but he's talking
[30:02] about sending a bill to the city. They
wasted hours. We use their buy money
[30:08] because I don't want to come to the city
for it. We use all their resources and
[30:12] it's really thrown out. It's in the
garbage right now. My investigators are
[30:16] working patrol
and while she was working most times I
[30:21] don't know when they're going to do X Y
and Z.
[30:26] One of the concerns that I have and I
understand everything that you're saying
[30:31] and I empathize with everything that
you've said regarding your officers and
[30:37] how they feel and their safety and all
that. I truly do.
[30:42] I do have an issue though with how
this was handled.
[30:49] I'll just be very frank. Um when you
said that
[30:55] uh let's see the officers there was an
officer who came who was not scheduled.
[31:01] He was on vacation.
And you said there were two others who
[31:06] they were or were not?
>> They were on schedule.
[31:08] » They were on schedule.
To me,
[31:13] we should have had this conversation
before that.
[31:18] If the officers were not happy,
concerned, didn't feel safe, whatever
[31:25] the issues are, which are all valid, it
would have been better to call a meeting
[31:30] prior to what happened yesterday
because that was very concerning for the
[31:36] community
at large. You know what I mean?
[31:42] » That that's all.
[31:53] One of the things I want to remind you
all that if you're over overtime, you
[31:55] need to consider the the appropriation
for the overtime. Uh you all still need
[31:59] to consider that uh because
we need to maintain u authorization for
[32:05] overtime.
And I say this to everybody at the
[32:08] table. I was I came in 2 minutes late
because I received a phone call from an
[32:13] agent, an investigative agency and what
they asked me to tell the body, tell the
[32:19] mayor and everyone. I just got it right
before I came in. Consider also altering
[32:24] to allow the investigation to go on.
There have been more felony cases filed
[32:28] this year than in any year in the past.
And with officers working the streets,
[32:34] they either need the agency to hire
additional people or allow overtime for
[32:41] the the criminal investigation division
so that they can continue with this
[32:45] because some of the investigations they
said to me to tell you all that some of
[32:48] the investigation they've been doing
since January and they made a lot of
[32:52] leeway with them, but they are going to
slow down the impact to little or none
[32:57] if C cannot continue to do what they're
with the other agencies.
[33:03] They didn't want the agencies to be
mentioned, but they wanted to make sure
[33:06] that there's multiple agencies that are
working with the police department.
[33:11] And to that and to that point, thank
you, attorney. To that point, that's the
[33:15] point or that's the purpose of an
overtime approval form. Um, it's not
[33:20] that there is no more overtime.
Realistically, we cannot cap overtime
[33:25] for and this is not the fire department
also had a similar conversation as well
[33:28] given their overtime totals. We cannot
say that between today, September 8th
[33:34] and December 31st, there will not be
another emergency or issue where
[33:38] overtime has to be used. Um, thus the
best fix that I um put together was a an
[33:44] approval form so that anything that does
get approved in the event that we have
[33:49] to continue investigations is specific.
It's not a daily schedule where you
[33:54] accumulate this over time just I don't
say just because um but ju you
[33:59] accumulate that daily that we can
sustain that. So there are pathways to
[34:03] make sure that those conversations
continue and that will be through an
[34:07] approval form that goes to the
administrative office. So um overtime
[34:12] just in case anybody's leaving the table
saying well there's no more overtime
[34:15] that's not it's it's got to be approved
now. That's where we That's where it is.
[34:31] » What are you asking us to do?
>> Well, so when I had the meeting, I'm not
[34:37] I don't necessarily haven't asked um
particularly. I did tell the department
[34:42] yesterday that I was going to get to
work by trying to figure out if you all
[34:46] had any extra thoughts around maybe a
specific aotment overtime throughout the
[34:51] rest of this year. Um any other
solutions that you all probably would be
[34:56] okay with or consider and um I think
this was more of a of a cause to have a
[35:02] conversation around just what happened
yesterday, the fact that there is a
[35:06] schedule change. And so I am asking um
are there thoughts around I mean my my
[35:12] suggestion is the overtime approval
fall. So can't can't realistically say
[35:16] there is no more but it has to be
monitored because we're already pretty
[35:21] much close to 200% or 100% of what we
allotted for. Um [clears throat] so
[35:26] that's one measure that I put in place
but I'm interested to hear if you all
[35:30] have any other things that will create a
happy medium for the situation with it.
[35:35] Well, approval of overtime certainly is
in your backyard. That's a day-to-day
[35:39] operation. So, you you have the
authority to approve it or not approve
[35:43] it. At this point, the ship is sailed on
approval for additional overtime because
[35:46] they're they've doubled it up at this
part of the year. So, my suggestion
[35:50] would be to just wait and clean it up at
the end of the year because we don't
[35:53] know what it's going to be going
forward. Um I I think everybody here
[35:57] would agree to do that. They've already
been paid for the time that they worked
[36:00] and at this point it's over 200,000. Uh,
based on what I'm looking at, I know
[36:04] this reporting period ends in August,
but we're in September now, so we know
[36:07] it's over 200,000. Um, so I guess going
forward, my request is that we control
[36:14] it and keep it at a level that it has to
be. I understand what Mr. Val is saying,
[36:19] city attorney, about ongoing
investigations. I certainly wouldn't
[36:21] want to hamper any of those and what
they have going on. Uh but uh anything
[36:27] that's excessive and not needed has to
be
[36:32] cut out. Um the overtime during this
period last year is probably lower
[36:37] because the the increase pay didn't
start until
[36:42] I want to say it was sometime in in the
summer. So just by sheer numbers, it's
[36:47] going to be lower. I don't know uh
personally what it is, but it's going to
[36:51] be lower. And then they brought on a lot
of new officers after we increased the
[36:54] base pay. So the this the staff level
was was higher. All that being said,
[37:00] this is yeah, I'm not often at a loss
for words, but when I read this report,
[37:04] I'll just say it was disheartening.
Uh because
[37:08] it this this hurts us as a whole. I
mean, this is that's a lot. it it sets
[37:15] us back in terms of what
I would hope our goals are in terms of
[37:20] managing our our finances at this point.
And so, um, I would just encourage the
[37:26] department by through Chief Sanders and
mayor to have to find a way. We have to
[37:32] find a way. Um, I have some other
thoughts that I don't think should be
[37:37] shared at this table. Um, but that's
kind of it.
[37:43] would you be so kind to share with the
officers to let them know their value to
[37:48] us? I know that sometimes whenever you
start having conversations about money,
[37:52] it the the
>> this isn't about money.
[37:55] » No, no, but listen, but in a way it is.
And I'll tell you why. Because when it
[38:00] when you say when you tell someone, hey,
uh you're not going to be allowed to
[38:04] accumulate overtime. and
this this employee cuz I've dealt with
[38:10] with my employees and they're saying but
I'm I'm doing my job. Are you saying
[38:14] that my job is not valuable? And that's
where the question value is. And so if
[38:19] there is a conversation, it's just a
dollars and cents thing. It has nothing
[38:23] to do with their value because because
what they do and what this what the
[38:28] police uh department does for us is
extreme value. It's of high value. So I
[38:33] don't I just don't want them to process
that like this is a personal attack on
[38:37] us and them to perceive that we're
saying what they're doing is not
[38:40] important because it's extremely
important. The case in fact is important
[38:43] is that we're having a meeting today
because we were concerned about the
[38:46] safety. So, so if you know if they can
work you know with the mayor and his
[38:52] mayor uh puts those you know those
safeguards in place on what you know on
[38:58] what he considers to be of um of of a
right you know budget then just work
[39:05] work with him as much as you can.
>> I'll go on record one more time. I know
[39:10] the narrative is out there.
Every officer that I've talked to, they
[39:14] hadn't said one word to me about money
or overtime.
[39:18] » Yes, sir.
>> They said that it's going to be two of
[39:20] us out here. That's what they told us.
>> Yes, sir.
[39:22] » Now,
that's just what they told me. I don't
[39:26] know.
>> Okay.
[39:27] » How the other narrative got out there.
>> I I haven't heard the other narrative. I
[39:31] I'm just going from my own personal
experience of of having staff. And when
[39:35] you start talking about cut cutting pay
or cutting overtime, people perceive it
[39:40] like you have. Oh, so you're saying I'm
not valuable and that's good. We we know
[39:44] the police department's right. We
can't do anything without the police
[39:48] department, which you know, we just want
to convey that if there's conversations
[39:52] about cutting overtime, it's not it's
not an attack on your value. It's we're
[39:57] just basically trying to watch our
budget. So
[40:01] that's awesome.
We appreciate y'all.
[40:05] » I mean, I would think that I mean,
mayor, correct me if I'm wrong. I mean,
[40:10] I would think that because I understand
if you've only got two officers and
[40:14] you've got a situation where officer has
to take or escort a family to the
[40:19] hospital because there's been something
happened, but then you've got the other
[40:22] officer who's still on the scene. I
mean, I would think that there would be
[40:26] some sort of
um
[40:30] understanding or may maybe the mayor
could approve having another officer
[40:36] come in so that the safety is assured or
at least helped a little bit. I mean, is
[40:42] that going to be part of it or
>> That's going to be part of it. And I was
[40:45] waiting for this meeting to see if there
were any outstanding ideas or solutions
[40:49] from this body. But um one of the
officers I think I think one of the
[40:53] officers yesterday asked you know if I'm
physically in a fight am I supposed to
[40:57] stop to call the chief who then is
supposed to call you?
[41:00] » So it's like obviously that's not going
to be feasible. Um so the best and
[41:06] smoothest way to do overtime approvals
will be to give guidelines on what will
[41:11] qualify. um the 8 hour schedules in my
opinion should stay because it's not
[41:17] sustainable and I think the way that we
can show that we're trying to work with
[41:20] the department is making those sustain
or not sustainable but making those
[41:24] understandings clear in these scenarios.
>> Yeah, make make the judgment call.
[41:31] » There's no big exception there. There's
going to be exceptions. There's going to
[41:34] be times going to have to happen with
trying to w
[41:39] uh M the treasur Mr. Turner has emailed
all of us while we're sitting here.
[41:43] » Okay.
>> Uh over time through this through the
[41:46] same period last year was $157,21.34.
[41:51] And again, most of the the um the year
was at the reduced reduced pay level. So
[41:56] I don't know proportionally if it's the
same or not, but
[42:00] » numerically it's it's uh about $43,000
left.
[42:05] » There are two or three financial things
for you all to consider. one, it appears
[42:09] that almost everybody on here is making
$1923 an hour. Uh the overtime rate is
[42:14] $28.85 and looking at it and that it
appears that they do testing and
[42:20] promotion. We haven't done any testing
and promotion to move people up so you
[42:25] can hire other people. Uh and so all
those are financial considerations that
[42:29] you going forward as relates to
day-to-day. The mayor is responsible for
[42:32] day-to-day. I just want you all to keep
in mind that you have to look strongly
[42:36] at your budget because you need to hire
additional people and promote people. Uh
[42:42] but your starting wage is 1923 according
to these calculations.
[42:46] » It's competitive.
>> That's certified. I mean uncertified was
[42:50] mostly what we're going to get is 1682.
Right. So you still have a competitive
[42:55] wage 1923.
>> Yeah.
[43:00] What starting teacher was?
>> Sir,
[43:03] » it's about what a starting teacher
would.
[43:06] » We ain't You said starting teacher.
>> Well, not Well, it depends on which
[43:10] district.
>> We ain't babysitting kids. I just want
[43:12] to go on record.
>> No. And I understand. I understand.
[43:16] » I I get that. I get that, Miss.
>> I get that. I do. I ask I go home to
[43:21] educate every day. in this day stream.
[43:27] But yeah, so yes, which is I was just
doing a compare which I know you should
[43:33] never do that. I was just comparing
another probably
[43:37] » another I was comparing another
professional, you know, group to another
[43:41] which I know you probably shouldn't do.
[43:48] I'd also like to encourage you um and it
was something that I really myself
[43:54] didn't care for either, but when I
worked for I was a traveling speech
[43:59] pathologist and I used to get speech
pathology services go going in nursing
[44:06] homes and things like that and we were
required to do time studies and they're
[44:11] a pain. I mean, they really are. But it
may help you a little bit, you know, in
[44:17] your scheduling process because they're
probably peak, not always because you're
[44:23] going to have crisis happen on different
days and be different times of the night
[44:26] or whatever, but there's certain maybe
peak days maybe uh peak periods during
[44:34] the week, peak time at night, maybe I
don't know,
[44:38] » peak time like the summertime typically
peak
[44:42] RP holiday season for us
>> and holiday is special.
[44:49] » I have just general question for the the
mayor and the chief. Uh the the issue is
[44:55] we we you informed the body as to the
issue and the city council is only in
[44:59] charge of finances and real property.
Are you do you have a financial action
[45:05] asking the city or you're just the city
council? You all are just making a
[45:08] presentation.
I don't have a in this meeting. I knew
[45:13] what it was about. So
>> I think Dr. Miller and I mutually kind
[45:17] of simultaneously I sent an email before
I checked my email and um one I think
[45:23] his was concern and mine was also for
just acknowledgement of the fact that
[45:27] there was someies yesterday. So there's
no ask other other than if and I think
[45:32] has been answered that there was um
alternative ways to consider.
[45:36] » Yes sir.
>> I thought I thought the I guess the
[45:41] unspoken agreement was that you would
manage overtime
[45:45] » and then we'll clean it up at the end of
the year because we don't know what's
[45:48] going to happen the rest of the year. So
that that's I think that's
[45:53] » just
any other discussion on on the matter at
[45:58] all.
>> No.
[46:01] Do
>> uh I do have u do you have any uh
[46:05] recruits or do you have anyone in the
academy right now?
[46:08] » I have one in the academy right now.
>> You have one?
[46:10] » Yes.
>> And when will he be out of the academy?
[46:14] » He will be out at the end of November.
I believe it's right before
[46:18] Thanksgiving. Do they have any
commitment to stay?
[46:21] » Say again.
>> Do they have any commitment to stay
[46:23] after they finish?
>> No, they do not.
[46:26] » No, but if they leave within a certain
time period, the state law authorizes us
[46:30] to write letters to the other department
that they're hired from to reimburse us
[46:34] a portion of the expenses that the city
spent.
[46:38] » Are we following up on that?
>> We do it very in Arkansas. We can't get
[46:42] anything out of state. Okay. Right.
[46:50] Are we utilizing uh do we have very many
part-time officers?
[46:54] » One.
[46:59] » How many how many part-time officers?
>> We have one part-time officer.
[47:03] » One.
>> He's been there 50 years and he been
[47:06] there 40 years. 50, right?
[47:16] I mean, is that a consideration? Maybe
use part-time officers to kind of fill
[47:21] in some gaps that may
>> 100%. The last time I checked, I
[47:24] parttime officers make 1150.
>> They said I thought I was told I'm not
[47:29] running towards the ballistic for 1150.
>> And I guess to that end, that's
[47:34] something that we could have discussed,
you know, before. Now,
[47:37] » I brought that up.
>> Well, there's been no proposal made. I
[47:41] missed that. I don't and I don't I don't
remember that but I mean if we fixed it
[47:46] » when you were pro Tim you asked me about
part time
[47:49] » man I that's I did a whole lot of
>> Did you get a salary for part
[47:53] » did you give a a proposed salary for
part time I don't remember
[47:56] » I didn't I was still fighting for my
officers that would get paid 1450
[48:00] » I understand
well maybe it might be something we re
[48:03] we revisit
so
[48:10] » any other discussion
[48:14] Not I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
So move
[48:17] » second being ajourned.
Thank you all. Thank you chief