1 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:50,060 Good evening. I'm going to call a meeting of the planning commission to order at 7 p.m. 2 00:00:50,940 --> 00:00:56,060 Chair Romeo is absent this evening. As vice chair, I'm going to chair the meeting. 3 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:03,940 And for the record, at present, four members of the planning commission are here, which constitutes a quorum. 4 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:10,480 First item is approving two sets of minutes from the January 8, 5 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:17,200 2021 work session and the January 22nd, 2024 regular meeting. 6 00:01:19,900 --> 00:01:21,400 I'd like a motion, please. 7 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:27,800 Assuming everyone is satisfied with them. Move approval of both sets of minutes, Mr. Chairman. 8 00:01:28,460 --> 00:01:31,640 Seconded. Okay, any discussion on this motion? 9 00:01:34,010 --> 00:01:35,490 Okay, seeing no discussion, 10 00:01:36,250 --> 00:01:39,370 I'm going to call a vote and ask for the clerk to call the roll, please. 11 00:01:40,150 --> 00:01:45,750 Commissioner Oberasi. Yes. Commissioner Donahue. Yes. Commissioner 12 00:01:45,750 --> 00:01:53,830 McFarlane. Yes. Vice Chair Burke. Yes. That motion passes by a vote of four to zero. 13 00:01:55,310 --> 00:02:00,910 Moving to the comments portion of the agenda. Does the staff have any comments 14 00:02:00,910 --> 00:02:06,930 for the Commission this evening? No, Mr. Chairman. We do not. Thank you. Okay. 15 00:02:06,930 --> 00:02:11,730 Thank you. Any comments from my colleagues on the planning commission? 16 00:02:14,930 --> 00:02:16,790 Okay, that's none. 17 00:02:17,650 --> 00:02:26,350 And now, if there are any comments from citizens on any item that is not on tonight's agenda, 18 00:02:27,430 --> 00:02:28,870 please come forward. 19 00:02:31,910 --> 00:02:35,190 I think there's a procedure here, but if there is no one 20 00:02:36,650 --> 00:02:41,230 coming forward to do this, I don't see any reason to go through the procedure. 21 00:02:44,450 --> 00:02:48,750 Okay, now let's move to the public hearing portion of the agenda. 22 00:02:50,570 --> 00:02:55,650 Ms. Giller and I have the items on the public hearing been appropriately advertised. 23 00:02:56,230 --> 00:03:01,570 Yes, the items were properly advertised with notices of public hearings having been duly 24 00:03:01,570 --> 00:03:07,850 advertised in the February 16th and February 23rd, 2024 issues of the Fairfax County Times 25 00:03:07,850 --> 00:03:14,030 newspaper certificates of publication from the editor will be entered into the record upon receipt. 26 00:03:15,050 --> 00:03:22,190 Okay, thank you very much. The first public hearing item on the agenda is the town's fiscal year 27 00:03:22,970 --> 00:03:29,950 2025 to fiscal year 2030 capital improvement program. I'm going to open the public hearing 28 00:03:29,950 --> 00:03:32,350 and call on John Burden to the staff report. 29 00:03:49,940 --> 00:03:54,680 Good evening, Commissioner Burke and members of the planning 30 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:55,020 commission. 31 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,340 My name is John Burden, and I am the CIP program manager. 32 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:04,560 We are here tonight to review the proposed FY2025 FY2030 CIP 33 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,460 and discuss the resolution for you. 34 00:04:11,530 --> 00:04:14,350 The CIP is a fluid financial planning document. 35 00:04:14,690 --> 00:04:17,550 These projects support the intent and implementation 36 00:04:17,550 --> 00:04:28,850 of 2030 comprehensive plan. The capital budget FY 2025 portion of the CIP becomes part of 37 00:04:28,850 --> 00:04:34,610 the current annual budget, which will continue to benefit from the American Rescue Plan Act 38 00:04:34,610 --> 00:04:42,970 or ARPA. CIP is a plan for out years to support projects staged from concept through design 39 00:04:42,970 --> 00:04:43,730 and construction. 40 00:04:46,390 --> 00:04:51,210 The proposed CIP contains 36 projects. Transportation and water and 41 00:04:51,210 --> 00:04:55,430 sewer projects make up 86% of the capital costs. 42 00:05:04,710 --> 00:05:06,650 A quick review of the CIP process might 43 00:05:06,650 --> 00:05:12,630 be in order. From July 1st to November 30th, Department heads submit new projects or updates 44 00:05:12,630 --> 00:05:17,250 existing projects in the CIP. The project's submissions require capital costs, funding, 45 00:05:17,250 --> 00:05:24,190 and operational costs. Additionally, the projects is prioritized using 10 criteria, long-term 46 00:05:24,190 --> 00:05:30,510 planning, health safety, infrastructure, regulatory compliance, operational budget impact, quality 47 00:05:30,510 --> 00:05:37,950 of life, timing and location, sustainability, external funding, and equity. In December, 48 00:05:38,630 --> 00:05:44,170 the CIP review committee reviews the projects for accuracy and completion. By mid, they 49 00:05:44,170 --> 00:05:46,850 We confirm and adjust the project's prioritization. 50 00:05:47,610 --> 00:05:52,650 By mid-January, the committee determines the project's readiness using the guidelines above. 51 00:05:54,070 --> 00:05:59,710 If the project has a fully developed scope and is funded, it is classified as eminent. 52 00:06:00,610 --> 00:06:06,530 Priority projects have a well-defined scope with some or no funding. 53 00:06:07,250 --> 00:06:13,110 Future projects need to have their scope and program developed as well as identifying 54 00:06:13,110 --> 00:06:13,770 the funding. 55 00:06:13,770 --> 00:06:20,090 There are four new projects added to the CIP, Ferndale Avenue improvements, estimated 56 00:06:20,090 --> 00:06:32,730 cost of $545,000, police rear security gate, cost of $376,000, HPD buildout $345,000, and 57 00:06:32,730 --> 00:06:35,570 the lead and copper compliance rollout $600,000. 58 00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:36,450 The 59 00:06:40,380 --> 00:06:49,060 review committee identified 20 imminent projects, 55% of the projects fall under water 60 00:06:49,060 --> 00:06:49,440 and sewer. 61 00:06:53,810 --> 00:06:54,610 These projects, 62 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,440 water and sewer projects, are over the next three years in readiness 63 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,200 for the TRG development. 64 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:11,620 In FY 30, we do see transportation costs of $16 million for South Elden Street improvements. 65 00:07:11,620 --> 00:07:11,840 this. 66 00:07:14,020 --> 00:07:18,260 Here are the list of the 20 projects that are classified as eminent. 67 00:07:23,270 --> 00:07:24,190 There are 15 68 00:07:24,190 --> 00:07:31,330 priority projects. 86% of the priority project costs are multimodal transportation projects. 69 00:07:32,250 --> 00:07:37,070 As stated earlier, the projects are well-defined and many of the projects are partially or 70 00:07:37,070 --> 00:07:43,130 wholly designed. They were classified as priority projects because the projects are relying 71 00:07:43,130 --> 00:07:52,170 on receiving grants from one of more than 17 different agencies that community development 72 00:07:52,170 --> 00:07:54,150 are aggressively seeking. 73 00:07:57,690 --> 00:08:01,270 These projects dominate the last three years of priority projects because 74 00:08:01,270 --> 00:08:03,170 of anticipating future funding. 75 00:08:07,910 --> 00:08:11,810 A shout out project is the downtown redevelopment 76 00:08:11,810 --> 00:08:17,650 for arts center that is linked to the ComStop development which provides for the development 77 00:08:17,650 --> 00:08:23,750 of public parking as well as an art center in the downtown in accord with a comprehensive plan. 78 00:08:29,410 --> 00:08:35,610 For future prospects projects, Parks and Recreation makes up 55% of the 11 future 79 00:08:36,550 --> 00:08:42,330 prospect projects costs. Projects can be moved to a different readiness classification 80 00:08:42,330 --> 00:08:47,810 once additional efforts in defining the scope and as programs are applied. 81 00:08:47,810 --> 00:08:48,850 These 82 00:08:54,670 --> 00:08:59,990 projects are in the CIP but not part of the budgeted number finance will 83 00:08:59,990 --> 00:09:08,010 you be using. Projects future costs such as HCC Phase 5 and Runany Park are based 84 00:09:08,010 --> 00:09:12,870 on a square footage cost in today's general market escalated with an 85 00:09:12,870 --> 00:09:18,890 inflate inflation rate at 4% to the year they are assigned. 86 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:21,460 The 87 00:09:21,460 --> 00:09:29,360 The proposed FY 2025-FY 2030 CIP has 36 projects, which is a combination of the eminent and 88 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:33,720 priority projects, at a cost of $205 million. 89 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:43,720 Except for FY 30, the yearly costs fall within the $24 to $36 million range. 90 00:09:47,420 --> 00:09:52,700 As stated earlier, the first year of the CIP becomes part of the FY 25 annual budget. 91 00:09:52,700 --> 00:09:59,500 There are 22 projects at a cost of $25.8 million, which is lower than the past several years. 92 00:10:02,830 --> 00:10:09,990 When we look at the funding for FY25, we see that 86% of the FY25 CIP has external funding, 93 00:10:10,110 --> 00:10:13,150 which includes the $1.7 million from ARPA. 94 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,660 Transportation projects are funded from various government agencies, 95 00:10:18,660 --> 00:10:25,520 and the water and sewer funds are funded by fees, enterprise fees. 96 00:10:26,940 --> 00:10:32,220 $375,000 of the general fund money will support three projects, sidewalk trails, 97 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:41,540 bicycle facilities, IT improvement, and the aquatic office build-out. The 36 up 98 00:10:41,540 --> 00:10:46,180 there is actually the total number of projects not in just the FY25. 99 00:10:48,740 --> 00:10:49,180 So the 100 00:10:49,180 --> 00:10:56,480 projects in the proposed FY 2025 FY 30 CIP aligns with the town's 2030 101 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,880 comprehensive plan and the action items found in the town's adopted pedestrian 102 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,260 plan and bicycle network master plan. 103 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,040 The staff proposes that the plan 104 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:18,060 commission recommend the proposed draft FY 2025 FY 2030 CIP to the town 105 00:11:18,060 --> 00:11:21,160 manager by passing the resolution in front of you. 106 00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:25,290 Any questions? 107 00:11:25,290 --> 00:11:32,970 Yeah. Thank you, John. Are there any questions or comments from members of the planning commission? 108 00:11:33,950 --> 00:11:46,510 Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. One quick and John. As far as ARPA is concerned, it was my impression that ARPA funding is finite and might be coming to an unfairly soon. 109 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:49,150 Am I under a misimpression or what's the situation on that? 110 00:11:49,770 --> 00:11:51,570 So, the offer of funding has two deadlines. 111 00:11:51,890 --> 00:11:58,850 The first one is that the dollar amount has to be encumbered by December 31st of 2024 112 00:11:58,850 --> 00:12:05,290 this year, and then they actually spent by December 31st, 2026. 113 00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:13,250 We are in the process of identifying any amount that isn't part, right now, part 114 00:12:13,250 --> 00:12:18,250 of a project, and we see, we are pretty confident that we will spend every penny 115 00:12:18,250 --> 00:12:33,130 of it. Well I hope so that's good but beyond ARPA 24 we will not see any more 116 00:12:33,130 --> 00:12:38,030 ARPA funds in the budget or will we continue to see those dollars through 117 00:12:38,030 --> 00:12:40,890 26 when they become encumbered. 118 00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:46,360 The majority of the projects will for the 119 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,560 the ARPA funding will end in 24. 120 00:12:48,940 --> 00:12:51,300 There could be a residual amount carryover 121 00:12:51,300 --> 00:12:56,260 if the project is encumbered in the last month 122 00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:59,820 and then it won't happen for the next year or two, but. 123 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,040 Okay, thank you, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 124 00:13:06,460 --> 00:13:07,220 Any further comments? 125 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,800 Okay, seeing none, I'm now gonna call on comments 126 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:14,680 from the audience. 127 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:17,740 These comments should be limited to three minutes 128 00:13:17,740 --> 00:13:18,480 in length. 129 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,020 a green light will come on at the beginning, a yellow light will come on 130 00:13:23,020 --> 00:13:28,660 30 seconds before your time is up, and a red light will come on when your time 131 00:13:28,660 --> 00:13:35,520 has expired. Please complete the sign-up sheet on the podium and state your 132 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,420 name and address for the record. Are there any comments from the public on 133 00:13:39,420 --> 00:13:39,920 this item? 134 00:13:44,690 --> 00:13:45,170 All right. 135 00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:50,550 Are there any further comments from staff or from the 136 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:51,190 commissioners. 137 00:13:53,780 --> 00:13:58,100 Thank you. This public hearing is now closed and I'll move to 138 00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:01,760 the commission level for discussion and action including a motion. 139 00:14:12,340 --> 00:14:12,580 Somebody? 140 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,080 Can you put the number up? I can't find it. The new portal I'm having trouble 141 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,420 seeing the agenda so just for reference the 142 00:14:23,070 --> 00:14:28,530 motion would be to 143 00:14:28,530 --> 00:14:34,750 recommend the resolution and I defer to the town attorney on this but 144 00:14:34,750 --> 00:14:35,670 Thank you. 145 00:14:35,770 --> 00:14:38,770 Motion would be to recommend the resolution as presented. 146 00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:43,030 Thank you very much. 147 00:14:43,150 --> 00:14:44,690 I just had looked at it before, 148 00:14:44,810 --> 00:14:48,150 but I can't seem to get it on my device right now. 149 00:14:48,570 --> 00:14:52,890 So I'd move that we approve proposed FY 2025, 150 00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:56,330 FY 2030 capital improvement program, the CIP. 151 00:14:59,200 --> 00:14:59,600 Second. 152 00:15:00,530 --> 00:15:06,370 All right. Having a motion and a second, is there any discussion on the motion? 153 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,360 I just want 154 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:18,420 to add for the record that this motion affects a resolution to recommend to the town manager 155 00:15:18,420 --> 00:15:28,600 the capital improvement program as presented. It is for further consideration and adoption. 156 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:29,960 and 157 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,520 I note that the sidewalk bicycle and trails project continues to be funded 158 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:41,760 using general fund dollars and the general government project focus should 159 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,860 be on maintaining existing major infrastructure and ensuring safety of 160 00:15:46,860 --> 00:15:54,400 operations and that is verbatim from the resolution before us. Can I call for 161 00:15:54,400 --> 00:16:00,460 the vote and Aaron would you call the roll please? Commissioner Elbarasi? Yes. 162 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,520 Commissioner Donahue? Yes. Commissioner McFarland? Yes. Vice Chair Burke? Yes. 163 00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:11,000 Thank you. That passes by a vote of four to zero. 164 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,120 Now I'm going to open the 165 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:28,200 public hearing again on zoning map amendment ZMA 22-02 concerning 13-100 and 13-150 World 166 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:29,040 Gate Drive. 167 00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:32,680 Mr. Stromberg? 168 00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:58,000 Good evening, Chairman Burke and members of the Planning Commission. 169 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:08,080 This is zoning map amendment CMA number 22-02 at 13100 and 13150 Whirlgate Drive. 170 00:17:08,860 --> 00:17:16,640 I am filling in for Mr. Perry tonight who had been briefing you these past two months at the public hearings on this project. 171 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:29,160 So the property is located at the northeast corner of Eldon Street and Whirlgate Drive where there is currently in office building. 172 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:35,280 building which used to be Fannie Mae and a parking garage structure there on the site. 173 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:41,900 The proposal is the demolition of the existing office buildings. 174 00:17:42,620 --> 00:17:48,700 This property will be redeveloped with a multifamily building attached to a portion 175 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:55,360 of the existing parking garage and that would be on the western half of the site along 176 00:17:55,360 --> 00:18:03,660 Elden Street and then there's proposed stacked townhouses and standard townhouse units on the 177 00:18:03,660 --> 00:18:13,520 eastern portion of the site. The total density of the proposal is a 1.34 floor area ratio and it's 178 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:20,640 a total between the two phases of 460 dwelling units. There are several modifications requested 179 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:26,640 in order to get this development form to work on this particular site. 180 00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:31,360 As you can 181 00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:38,200 see the multifamily apartment building again is located on the eastern portion 182 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,700 of the site. It has two internal courtyards for the residents of the 183 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:49,580 apartments. The primary entrance in and out of the entire site is on Wiltshire 184 00:18:49,580 --> 00:18:57,380 Court. Ordering on that, those are the stacked unit townhouses and there's also a row of 185 00:18:57,380 --> 00:19:04,660 stacked unit townhouses fronting on Royal Gate Drive. The standard townhouses are located there 186 00:19:04,660 --> 00:19:10,420 on the northern half of alley 1, Road B, alley 2, and alley 3. 187 00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:16,900 So the significant update from 188 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:24,120 The last time this has been brought before the planning commission is the revision to the road a entrance. 189 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:31,180 If you recall, this was a right in right out entrance. 190 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:43,520 And there is a lot of going back and forth between staff and the applicant related to a continuous right turn lane going from this road a to Elvin Street. 191 00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:53,340 The applicant has revised the plan, so this would be a right and only, and then any vehicles leaving the site from both the 192 00:19:54,060 --> 00:20:04,380 multifamily apartments and the townhouses would go out back towards that road shore where the signalized intersection is and leave from that location. 193 00:20:07,130 --> 00:20:13,250 There have been some minor revisions to the proffers since this was last before the commission, 194 00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:18,670 And the Fairfax County Fire Marshal review is still ongoing with this application. 195 00:20:19,450 --> 00:20:24,250 And a draft resolution recommending approval has been provided to the Planning Commission tonight. 196 00:20:26,330 --> 00:20:29,510 So that concludes the updates on this application. 197 00:20:29,850 --> 00:20:35,470 And I would be happy to answer any application questions that you have in the applicant is here tonight as well. 198 00:20:36,870 --> 00:20:40,690 Okay, any questions or comments from my colleagues? 199 00:20:42,510 --> 00:20:46,670 Has the fire marshal shown any concern about anything? 200 00:20:47,190 --> 00:20:51,370 Is there anything in particular that they're reviewing or why they're still reviewing it 201 00:20:51,370 --> 00:20:52,290 after so long? 202 00:20:52,450 --> 00:20:56,470 They need to re-review this change with the right turn in. 203 00:20:59,110 --> 00:20:59,270 Good. 204 00:20:59,550 --> 00:21:00,650 So they have reviewed it initially. 205 00:21:03,670 --> 00:21:04,070 Okay. 206 00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:08,450 Seeing no further comments, I'm going to invite the applicant's agent forward to 207 00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:09,330 address the commission. 208 00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:13,870 Please complete the sign up sheet and state your name and address for the record. 209 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,120 Good evening, Vice Chair Burke, members of planning commission, Ken Weyer with the law 210 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:19,820 firm, Weyer Gill. 211 00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:24,040 With me this evening is my colleague, Faheem Tarab, and then Sean Sullivan with Boston Properties. 212 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,700 We appreciate the opportunity to come back to you all again. 213 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,340 From the very beginning, I reference the fact these conversions are a bit quirky. 214 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:33,920 We're keeping the majority of the garage that's there today. 215 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,440 We have topography, and we're also on the very edge of the town next to a very 216 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,100 busy intersection at World Gate in Elden. 217 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:44,560 As Mr. Strongbird laid out a second ago, the right in has been the resolution 218 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:49,120 of the write-in, write-out. We have met with the Farm Marshal. There is no concern that I'm aware of. 219 00:21:49,260 --> 00:21:53,340 We just don't have the final letter. We expect it hopefully before the Town Council review. 220 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:58,400 We've also worked with staff to modify the proffers. That intersection can be whatever 221 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,600 alignment they want it to be. We just don't want to move our building. So there's a few 222 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,940 radius issues and how does it make sense for the pedestrian? I think we've had a good 223 00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:09,660 discussion on that point. So we hope with that background and updated proffers, 224 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:15,560 you all will feel comfortable recommending approval to Town Council. I did not realize Mr. Perry was 225 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,420 out. We did email him this afternoon. There was one minor modification on the draft resolution. 226 00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:25,840 The date of the GDP and the modification should be January 16th. The dates that were in here 227 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,260 were the earlier submissions. So if you find yourself in a position to recommend approval 228 00:22:29,260 --> 00:22:33,900 on number one of the motion, if we could just make those edits to January 16th, 2024, 229 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,660 that was our most recent submission. So I'm not going to ramble on any longer. We appreciate 230 00:22:38,660 --> 00:22:44,040 your efforts and we're here to answer any questions. Okay thank you. Any questions for the 231 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:44,840 applicant's agent? 232 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:55,760 Thank you. Okay that's a good sign that we've gone over this quite thoroughly 233 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:02,720 in my opinion. I'm now going to call on comments for the from the audience if anyone has anything 234 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,940 to say you will have three minutes watch for the green light and a yellow light will come on 235 00:23:07,940 --> 00:23:13,920 when you have 30 seconds left and a red light means your time is up. Are there any comments 236 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:14,660 from the audience? 237 00:23:18,260 --> 00:23:18,580 Okay. 238 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,200 Anything further, Mr. Stromberg? Okay. Thank you. 239 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:29,760 Public hearing 240 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,720 is now closed and I'm going to move to the commission level for discussion and action, 241 00:23:35,420 --> 00:23:42,700 noting the recommendation on the staff report for further action. 242 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:45,740 Could I have 243 00:23:45,740 --> 00:23:54,140 motion please motion to approve zoning map amendment 22-02 with the 244 00:23:54,140 --> 00:24:03,060 proffered conditions as amended as amended with the amended date thank you we 245 00:24:04,100 --> 00:24:09,900 have that amended resolution for the minutes okay I'll second that any 246 00:24:11,540 --> 00:24:12,840 discussion on that motion 247 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,760 okay will the clerk please call the roll 248 00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:34,060 All right, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Weier. 249 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:44,840 Next item on the agenda is consideration of comprehensive plan amendment CPA number 23-01. 250 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:51,280 It's a resolution to consider a comprehensive plan amendment to the town of Herndon's 251 00:24:51,280 --> 00:25:02,160 2030 comprehensive plan adopted on August 12th, 2008 and amended through May 24th, 2022. 252 00:25:02,860 --> 00:25:08,160 This item is continued from the January 22nd, 2024 meeting. 253 00:25:08,940 --> 00:25:14,000 I will open the public hearing and call on Ahmadzaki for the staff report, please. 254 00:25:14,740 --> 00:25:18,260 Thank you, and good evening, Chairman Burke and the Motor Planning Commission. 255 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:23,540 My name is Ahmad Zaki and I'm the lead planning, lead language planning development. 256 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:32,180 Tonight once again I'm here with a brief presentation to update you on the comprehensive plan amendment 257 00:25:32,180 --> 00:25:34,360 and on the transit rated growth smile plan. 258 00:25:35,100 --> 00:25:40,980 Indeed our discussion will be to pick up where we left off last week and the discussion 259 00:25:40,980 --> 00:25:44,980 of the plan and two major items were discussed. 260 00:25:44,980 --> 00:25:49,420 One of the questions were about the radar sheet, and the next question was about the 261 00:25:49,420 --> 00:25:55,340 balancing between flexibility and the prescriptiveness of the plan. 262 00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:03,240 So to recap a little bit, the final draft TRG plan, which I shared with you last week, 263 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:06,900 was submitted to us on February 12th. 264 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:12,920 This draft contains revision based on the TRG advisory committee comments, the planning 265 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:20,380 Commission and the TRG Technical Committee comments. Obviously, there's a lot of content 266 00:26:20,380 --> 00:26:27,680 in the new revised plan that's being updated. However, the principal contents and the tent 267 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:33,660 of the plan remains the same and the staff is fully supportive of those contents. However, 268 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:40,020 there are some certain new elements of the plan that needs a closer look and analysis 269 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:50,180 And in order to do so, the staff has created a new radar sheet to mark the refinements that's needed to be brought. 270 00:26:50,680 --> 00:27:01,300 Majority of those comments are kind of editorial issues like spelling, profiting and housekeeping kind of items. 271 00:27:01,820 --> 00:27:08,340 But last week during the discussion, which we had with the planning commission, a question was raised that we need to see the radar sheet. 272 00:27:08,340 --> 00:27:14,780 Now, I'd like to bring your attention to the kind of form of the questions and comments 273 00:27:14,780 --> 00:27:17,260 that we have in the Rata sheet, which is now on the display. 274 00:27:18,260 --> 00:27:23,620 I'm not sure if you have a hard copy of that Rata sheet, but you can see it on the display 275 00:27:23,620 --> 00:27:23,960 here. 276 00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:32,100 As you can see from the Rata sheet, we have kind of page by page markups of the comments 277 00:27:32,100 --> 00:27:34,960 that we need to edit and the plan. 278 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,580 As I mentioned, a majority of those comments like table of content should be linked with 279 00:27:39,580 --> 00:27:44,360 day titles, like physical impact analysis that the disease is missing while it's being 280 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:46,200 included in the table of content. 281 00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:51,600 There are some unsolved comments that people provided last time to the consultant like 282 00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:55,780 the name of vice mayor is kind of missed out. 283 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:02,880 There are some paragraphs that we have included for clarity because inconsistency, which 284 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:07,480 which were kind of repetitive and redundant in the final draft plan. 285 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:13,340 In addition, as you can see, there are kind of markups, let me increase the size, I'm 286 00:28:13,340 --> 00:28:16,140 sorry, it's really, yeah. 287 00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,520 There are markups, for example, for the number of pages that's being kind of misplaced, 288 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:28,360 the location of images and photos are kind of misrepresented, and there are kind 289 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:34,740 of references that needs to be double checked and put in the right place. 290 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:40,840 For example, the number of meetings that should be included as part of public outreach as missing 291 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:42,460 and we have asked them to include. 292 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:49,300 However, there are some comments too that we have asked them to, which is refinement 293 00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:56,660 in this case, that somehow can refer to the elements of the plan that we have asked 294 00:28:56,660 --> 00:29:03,540 the consultant to include. For example, one of the comment was about the community's input. 295 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:08,900 There was a survey that we conducted at some point during the vision and phase of the project 296 00:29:08,900 --> 00:29:15,900 that asked communities perspective on the type of kind of environment and building that they 297 00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:21,140 want to see in the meteorology. We provide questions to the consultant to provide 298 00:29:21,780 --> 00:29:25,340 the type of feedback, the summary of feedback of the community. However, 299 00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:30,580 those questions were or kind of omitted from the final draft plan. So we have 300 00:29:30,580 --> 00:29:38,020 included that question again and based on our collection of communities feedback 301 00:29:38,020 --> 00:29:43,260 and answers we have provided kind of detailed questions in order to indicate 302 00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:48,960 to the consultant that those questions might be kind of discussed again and 303 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,500 included in the final draft plan because that forms the basis of the 304 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:59,820 framework development. So this was the Arata sheet as in this 305 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:19,260 Form, and we have the page number and question by question, which we would kind of keep updating this or add a sheet based on the comments that we will receive from the planning commission during this session in our planning sessions and also from the town council during their review of the TRG plan. 306 00:30:19,940 --> 00:30:28,900 And these refinements and markups will be shared with the consultant once the town council acts on the plan and those will be applied. 307 00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:38,480 The second question here, the second topic that we wanted to discuss was pretty much about the 308 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:51,160 question about, that was asked regarding the level of or balancing between flexibility and 309 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:58,540 prescriptiveness of the plan. Last week we did discuss this. In order to focus on this specific 310 00:30:58,540 --> 00:31:05,280 the question. I'm sharing here some specific pages of the plan that can help discussion 311 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:10,660 and I ask Lisa Guillen to facilitate discussions about the specific topic. 312 00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:13,900 Thank you. 313 00:31:19,460 --> 00:31:23,280 Good evening for the record. My name is Elizabeth Guillen, Director of Community Development. 314 00:31:25,130 --> 00:31:32,740 We did want to go over some of the questions, the issues that we're facing as we look 315 00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:40,180 at the plan and we try to deal with the issue of how prescriptive it is versus non-prescriptive. 316 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:47,500 And for that, I'd like to draw your attention to page 42, which you see before you this 317 00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:47,860 evening. 318 00:31:49,180 --> 00:31:54,040 And as you look at it, I'm just going to orient you here a little bit. 319 00:31:54,040 --> 00:32:02,280 But we see in the pink area where the cursor is, hopefully you can see that. 320 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,420 That is the arrival plaza. 321 00:32:04,540 --> 00:32:06,600 That is the continuation of the promenade. 322 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:19,920 And then you see this somewhat golden area that stretches down from west to east to 323 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:24,340 what is today exchange place and then just beyond exchange place. 324 00:32:24,340 --> 00:32:30,300 that is the electrical easement, the electric line easement, and that, as you 325 00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:34,580 know, is designated as a linear park within the planned concept. 326 00:32:36,900 --> 00:32:38,720 And along the 327 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:45,980 north side of that linear park runs what we're calling the parallel street, and 328 00:32:45,980 --> 00:32:51,200 that is the street that will connect to Herndon Parkway and eventually 329 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:59,040 Worldgate Drive extension on the west and then run through the entire northern portion 330 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:07,900 of the TRG up to Spring Street, creating a spine road that is parallel to the Herndon 331 00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:14,840 Parkway on which the grid of streets within the park, within the TRG is built off of. 332 00:33:16,060 --> 00:33:25,640 To the north and west of that spine road, the plan currently shows that there is a residential 333 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,480 mix of townhouse and two over twos. 334 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:38,160 And then on the, I guess it would be the east and the south side of the spine road, 335 00:33:38,340 --> 00:33:43,400 you see a mix of office and multifamily mixed use buildings. 336 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,420 For the most part, some of the buildings are single use, others are mixed use. 337 00:33:50,220 --> 00:34:07,660 So as we look at this, we see on the legend where SOM has actually placed a term key distances 338 00:34:07,660 --> 00:34:18,320 And the various colors on the streets and the plazas you see are literally, the width 339 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,300 of these elements is called out. 340 00:34:21,540 --> 00:34:26,900 So the plaza would be 120 feet between the two development blocks. 341 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:33,360 And then the green streets, which are private, well in this case that's a public street, 342 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,640 the others are public as well. 343 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:41,200 the green streets would be a hundred between development blocks and then you 344 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:47,320 get into the smaller private streets and those sizes are laid out specifically. 345 00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:57,680 And this is this is where you have a very what appears to be prescriptive. 346 00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,800 There is some language that has been added to some of the pages of the 347 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:12,320 plan but at the same time this particular illustration and its legend 348 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:18,320 would lead one to believe that that's what it has to be and that's what zoning 349 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:24,680 would be built on and decisions in the future would be built on. So the staff 350 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:37,340 is recommending that there be changes to that language and to make certain that 351 00:35:37,340 --> 00:35:46,480 it's the plan is allowing for flexibility and we're assuming from what 352 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:49,920 we've heard from the Planning Commission that that is the direction 353 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:55,540 that you wish for us to go, that we don't have specific numbers, 354 00:35:55,820 --> 00:35:56,980 numeral dimensions. 355 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,660 At least that's what we've been hearing in our work sessions 356 00:36:00,660 --> 00:36:02,840 and previous public meetings. 357 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,260 So before you tonight, we're going to show you where some 358 00:36:07,260 --> 00:36:13,520 of these specifics are in the plan just to obtain your 359 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:24,780 comfort level with how that is displayed. So on this particular sheet, am I correct 360 00:36:24,780 --> 00:36:31,380 in assuming that it's this type of legend that you're concerned about, where you're 361 00:36:31,380 --> 00:36:39,340 actually stating that the width of this street from block to block will be a certain dimension. 362 00:36:39,340 --> 00:36:40,480 So, 363 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:50,140 that's what we're assuming and so that is the sort of refinement that really goes 364 00:36:50,140 --> 00:36:58,160 beyond an errata sheet and so we're calling it an errata and refinement sheet because it's 365 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:06,380 this sort of detail that really isn't normally included, errata sheets usually grammar and 366 00:37:06,380 --> 00:37:18,420 minor changes like that. I would also like to point out that it gets into where 367 00:37:18,420 --> 00:37:22,300 the front of the building should be, where the backs of the building should be, 368 00:37:22,980 --> 00:37:30,100 and again we're adding flexibility. I think we've achieved it with with some 369 00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:40,720 of the pages already during the previous changes that we've recommended to SOM. 370 00:37:41,380 --> 00:37:44,040 Here you see where we've added feasibility language, 371 00:37:44,060 --> 00:37:47,620 which was included in this latest draft, 372 00:37:48,140 --> 00:37:51,880 where it states that road geometry may vary from what is shown 373 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,740 on the road type plan to the right to accommodate future development needs 374 00:37:56,740 --> 00:38:03,040 due to the anticipated piecemeal development phasing and example of applying flexibility as shown. 375 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:13,260 And what you see here is the insert and really the genesis of that insert is that the engineering 376 00:38:13,260 --> 00:38:21,540 division for the town did note that in the original drawing the distance between the 377 00:38:21,540 --> 00:38:26,760 The spine road in the Herndon Parkway as we've gone over before was too tight. 378 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:32,740 It wasn't going to allow for adequate stacking of vehicles potentially. 379 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:40,560 So the insert that you see below that is actually moving that spine road a little 380 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:46,140 further to the north and into the west to increase that dimension. 381 00:38:46,140 --> 00:38:51,300 And so we're building language into the plan to allow that flexibility. 382 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,060 So this is a case where it's already occurred. 383 00:38:55,260 --> 00:39:02,070 We've got some other cases that have also been included. 384 00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:06,650 But on this particular sheet and on several of the following sheets, 385 00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:11,110 there is some direction that we would like as you discuss this plan this evening. 386 00:39:12,330 --> 00:39:16,030 And that is on the sections, on the street sections. 387 00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:31,990 The street sections have ranges and because of that they are very, if you're looking at this plan for guidance, it would appear that this is in fact exactly what you're supposed to do. 388 00:39:32,350 --> 00:39:37,230 If you look at the muse for the pedestrian street, what you see is a 10 foot front yard. 389 00:39:37,230 --> 00:39:45,770 you see a five foot minimum sidewalk, a five foot minimum planting area, then a 20 foot muse, 390 00:39:46,210 --> 00:39:54,830 and then a repeat on the other side of the muse. Now I have a few comments about this one. One is 391 00:39:54,830 --> 00:40:00,270 whenever you say a minimum, you're going to get the minimum. Not too often will you see somebody 392 00:40:00,270 --> 00:40:05,470 come in and decide to make that five foot minimum sidewalk a 10 foot sidewalk. 393 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:15,290 The other feature here is that we're seeing, again, very specific numbers. 394 00:40:16,110 --> 00:40:22,490 And even though it says street sections provide a guideline of how the program, how to program 395 00:40:22,490 --> 00:40:27,610 the area between the development blocks, however, there is flexibility for the shown 396 00:40:27,610 --> 00:40:33,230 dimensions and features to change depending on future development needs, e.g. substituting 397 00:40:33,230 --> 00:40:35,230 on-street parking for turn lanes. 398 00:40:39,180 --> 00:40:46,960 We would like to gauge during the discussion this evening whether the Planning Commission 399 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:54,660 is comfortable with that added language or if you believe that the dimensions should 400 00:40:54,660 --> 00:41:03,800 be removed and that just the section is shown so that the future developer, designer, will 401 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:11,900 know these are the features that are supposed to be within that area from building to building 402 00:41:12,940 --> 00:41:19,060 and then work with best planning practices and with the staff and probably some additional 403 00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:21,900 language in the zoning ordinance to give greater guidance. 404 00:41:21,900 --> 00:41:29,600 So, here the question is, is the language of the flexible nature of the drawings adequate 405 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,640 or would you be more comfortable with the actual dimensions removed? 406 00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:40,860 Staff on a matter like this, we again, 407 00:41:43,770 --> 00:41:46,750 we know that if we have minimums, that's what 408 00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:48,310 will be coming in on the plan. 409 00:41:48,910 --> 00:41:53,270 And we also know dimensions in the sense, not in the number dimensions, but there 410 00:41:53,270 --> 00:42:00,530 There is a key when you come to urban designing that your height of the building and the distance 411 00:42:00,530 --> 00:42:11,150 of the building to the building opposite creates a space that needs to be wide enough but yet 412 00:42:11,150 --> 00:42:12,390 have a sense of enclosure. 413 00:42:12,990 --> 00:42:21,930 So it is important to have that correct dimension so the height with it's working together 414 00:42:21,930 --> 00:42:26,850 to give you a sense of enclosure but not a sense that it's too tight or it's too dark 415 00:42:26,850 --> 00:42:29,370 and shadow. But again, 416 00:42:31,450 --> 00:42:36,150 do we actually try to plan that here or do we wait until a later 417 00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:45,730 date when a proposal comes in? And so that is one of the questions that we'd like to 418 00:42:45,730 --> 00:42:55,370 hear more about your thoughts about the the other excuse me for a second yes is 419 00:42:57,230 --> 00:43:02,790 it satisfactory to receive answers to these inquiries at the next work 420 00:43:02,790 --> 00:43:08,750 session are you looking to hear something from the dais tonight it would be 421 00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:13,670 although it's a little unusual during the public hearing when once it goes to 422 00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:20,130 comment section to the to the commission. If you'd like to give us some 423 00:43:20,130 --> 00:43:24,330 direction we would appreciate that and that way we can be working to make that 424 00:43:24,330 --> 00:43:30,270 irada and refinement sheet ready for your work session incorporating your 425 00:43:30,270 --> 00:43:36,090 thoughts. So that would that would be useful. It's not necessary but it would 426 00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:43,470 be useful. So this is the type of refinement that is going I would say 427 00:43:43,470 --> 00:43:51,190 be on just the typical what you would see in an Arata sheet. And this is more of more 428 00:43:51,190 --> 00:43:57,270 of these issues you will see in the next work session. But we did want to bring these just 429 00:43:57,270 --> 00:44:05,870 to gauge your comfort level. And with that, I will say that the staff is recommending 430 00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:11,690 that the public hearing remain open and that you continue until a date is certain. 431 00:44:11,690 --> 00:44:17,290 and I believe the next planning commission public hearing is on March 25th 432 00:44:19,750 --> 00:44:21,070 and I'm happy 433 00:44:21,070 --> 00:44:23,310 to answer any questions and I know I'm odd it's too. 434 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:26,500 Okay. 435 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:36,920 Any questions or comments from the commissioners including in response to some of the issues 436 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,220 raised by Ms. Gellerin? 437 00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:41,760 Jay. 438 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:48,480 Thank you Mr. Chairman. I've heard nothing this evening coming from staff. 439 00:44:49,180 --> 00:44:55,380 that would discourage me from giving them the degree of I'm going to use 440 00:44:55,380 --> 00:44:59,980 the word flexibility that they would like to have in fact 441 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,360 It sounds quite healthy to me. 442 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:11,540 The, as far as the dimensions issue is concerned, the more specific dimensions issue, same thing 443 00:45:11,540 --> 00:45:19,640 I think. I can be easily sold on what the director said, which was, if you have a dimension on 444 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,680 there, that's what you're going to get, and I can get any more. I've seen that happen, 445 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:28,100 so I don't have any problem with that whatsoever. So I am, yeah, I'm more than willing to 446 00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:33,240 go in the direction that staff I think is trying to get us to go in and direct us 447 00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:37,740 this evening. I don't know if the vote has to be taken this evening or if you 448 00:45:37,740 --> 00:45:43,480 actually want to give us a better shot at the work session and then the 449 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:48,340 following public hearing to actually do the vote. I think that's a good plan but 450 00:45:48,340 --> 00:45:54,260 as far as my initial comments and my initial impression is concerned I 451 00:45:54,260 --> 00:45:59,280 I think to have the flexibility that staff is looking for is a very healthy idea. 452 00:45:59,540 --> 00:46:04,500 I know I've spoken on the prescriptive issue before. I hope no one has gotten the wrong idea. 453 00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:08,760 I've tried to explain. I am not. I do not want to be terribly prescriptive. 454 00:46:09,340 --> 00:46:16,080 In fact, I think there was, in the presentation that was sent to us, the staff memo, 455 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,900 and it's the very first comment I think was very good, and I can't remember exactly the wording that was used, 456 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,400 but it referred to the input of the community and I think referred to the 457 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:33,140 need to give that input some credence and pay some attention to it. And I think 458 00:46:33,140 --> 00:46:37,920 that's the type of wording we should be using. I'm not in favor of being overly 459 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,280 prescriptive at all. So I think basically the comments made by staff 460 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:47,240 tonight and what I think is their desire to have is something I think I 461 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:49,760 would support. I'd like to look a little further but that would be my 462 00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:51,500 initial feeling. Thank you. 463 00:46:54,740 --> 00:47:01,810 I just want to make sure I understand so I can help 464 00:47:01,810 --> 00:47:05,470 kind of express an opinion here. So I understand we don't want to be 465 00:47:05,470 --> 00:47:10,010 prescriptive and I understand that we don't want to prescribe distances 466 00:47:10,010 --> 00:47:14,090 because they'll come in. But at the same time we've got to give the future 467 00:47:14,090 --> 00:47:21,250 developers an idea of what we're looking for. Should we provide language 468 00:47:21,250 --> 00:47:23,510 which that would elaborate on the goal 469 00:47:23,510 --> 00:47:24,970 that we're trying to achieve, 470 00:47:25,210 --> 00:47:27,430 like greater walkability, open environment, 471 00:47:27,790 --> 00:47:29,250 that type of thing, would that be helpful 472 00:47:29,250 --> 00:47:30,970 or what's your thought? 473 00:47:32,250 --> 00:47:35,230 And I'll let Ahmad also answer if he has thoughts. 474 00:47:35,590 --> 00:47:37,430 My thought is with the sections 475 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,230 to perhaps include sections but without the dimensions 476 00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:48,010 so that if someone is looking to provide us 477 00:47:48,010 --> 00:47:50,370 with a generalized development plan, 478 00:47:50,370 --> 00:47:59,150 they know the expectations of what activities and what features should be 479 00:47:59,150 --> 00:48:04,690 there. In other words, if it shows a cycle track, if it shows a sidewalk, if it 480 00:48:04,690 --> 00:48:10,470 shows a planting strip, if that's in the section, they know that is what the 481 00:48:10,470 --> 00:48:16,770 town expects to see. What would not be there is that the minimum is five feet 482 00:48:16,770 --> 00:48:25,330 or the minimum and maximum. It wouldn't be the numbers, but they would still have an idea of how that space is to be activated. 483 00:48:28,140 --> 00:48:41,780 Thank you, Lisa. Just to add on this, when we were conducting the community survey, the key words actually that you're hearing a lot was safety, functionality, aesthetic aspect of the plan. 484 00:48:41,780 --> 00:48:48,680 So those are kind of abstract terms in order to have those kind of abstract terms translated 485 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,600 in a design, particularly when it comes to public spaces. 486 00:48:54,150 --> 00:49:00,720 So if we can add the kind of adverb maybe of best practices somehow to indicate that 487 00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:07,140 function, that could guide us to come up with something maybe with more kind of rigid 488 00:49:07,140 --> 00:49:08,960 or something later on in the process. 489 00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:10,620 Thank you. 490 00:49:10,620 --> 00:49:15,420 And to elaborate on that, I'll give you an example, 491 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,460 a dedicated bicycle facility, well 492 00:49:20,460 --> 00:49:26,200 out there in the engineering world at this time and planning world, there are dimensions 493 00:49:27,090 --> 00:49:39,180 for and operational measures for a safe, best practices functional bicycle facility. 494 00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:46,160 So we would be applying that, of course, but we wouldn't be saying in this document that 495 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:47,200 it has to be five feet. 496 00:49:48,060 --> 00:49:55,100 And that's probably a good thing because we've learned over time that some standards continue 497 00:49:55,100 --> 00:49:55,840 to evolve. 498 00:49:56,540 --> 00:49:59,340 One of them is cycling facilities. 499 00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:05,760 What was considered adequate five, six years ago has actually changed. 500 00:50:06,380 --> 00:50:09,240 and the dimension now is different than it was then. 501 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:20,480 So it's probably best not to, in a case like that, perhaps rely on a dimension put in a document in 2024 502 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:26,000 if we're going to be applying this still in the next 5, 10, 15 years. 503 00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:35,380 So, are you saying that there'd be less subjectivity with the staff's decisions on approving plans 504 00:50:35,380 --> 00:50:42,080 because of the term best practices makes it a little more objective and evolves with time? 505 00:50:42,540 --> 00:50:50,580 It does evolve with time, at least some standards do, some practices do, some don't, but what 506 00:50:50,580 --> 00:50:59,780 What it also tells the developer is that we are going to be holding this up against those 507 00:50:59,780 --> 00:51:02,800 standards, whatever those standards are at the time. 508 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:07,720 In addition, as we're looking at the zoning ordinance, and we're going to have to write 509 00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:14,480 zoning language, as we come to the Planning Commission and Town Council, if there are 510 00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:21,240 particular distances or numbers, something critical that is identified by 511 00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:27,460 that time, it would be more appropriate to have that in zoning ordinance language 512 00:51:27,460 --> 00:51:31,040 rather than putting it into the comprehensive plan. 513 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,120 Did you want to add 514 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,520 anything Commissioner Albarasi? I'm comfortable with removing the specific 515 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:46,680 numbers within the dimensions and just leaving the sections within the 516 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:47,820 illustrations. 517 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:51,380 Thanks. 518 00:51:54,910 --> 00:52:05,570 One comment. The question of flexibility versus prescriptiveness for 519 00:52:05,570 --> 00:52:14,170 one of a better word was a major topic for the TRG Advisory Committee. I wanted to mention 520 00:52:14,170 --> 00:52:23,970 that, and that was a group of several people from various sectors that reviewed and considered 521 00:52:23,970 --> 00:52:28,190 the issues throughout this process, meeting several times. 522 00:52:29,130 --> 00:52:37,070 And this matter of flexibility was brought forward by the Committee for the Planning 523 00:52:37,070 --> 00:52:40,310 Commission and for staff, just to note that. 524 00:52:41,390 --> 00:52:52,990 As far as the specific questions raised here, I will say that I favor, in most instances, 525 00:52:54,310 --> 00:52:55,630 a flexible approach. 526 00:52:57,110 --> 00:53:03,650 That said, I'm not sure that the instance on the screen right now is one that I feel 527 00:53:03,650 --> 00:53:07,530 it's necessary to remove the numbers from, personally. 528 00:53:07,530 --> 00:53:14,430 Now that there may be other viewpoints, but that that's mine if that's any help. 529 00:53:16,610 --> 00:53:18,710 Anything else from staff? 530 00:53:20,610 --> 00:53:21,850 No, Mr. Chair. 531 00:53:22,650 --> 00:53:22,970 Okay. 532 00:53:25,870 --> 00:53:31,330 I believe, and maybe a little assistance from the town attorney here, 533 00:53:32,330 --> 00:53:36,490 Seeing as there are several alternatives one of which is 534 00:53:36,490 --> 00:53:43,150 Continuance I'm keep the public hearing open for purposes of motion and proceeding there 535 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:46,660 should be yes there should be 536 00:53:46,660 --> 00:53:54,420 The public hearing should be kept open there needs to be a motion to keep it open and for the public hearing to be continued to 537 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:03,320 March 25th 538 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:12,100 But let's start there, so if you wish to continue, please add that we're keeping the public hearing open. 539 00:54:12,340 --> 00:54:14,960 Mr. Chair, I think Ms. Guillarin has a comment. 540 00:54:15,460 --> 00:54:20,420 Well, we have some people in the audience, so they may wish to comment. 541 00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:27,240 We can go ahead and take public comment today and still continue it for public comment at the 25th as well. 542 00:54:30,010 --> 00:54:38,390 Okay. So, Mike, should I request further public comments? I apologize for that, by the way. 543 00:54:41,250 --> 00:54:45,110 Mr. Vice Chair, again, Ken Weier with the law firm, Weier-Gill. I do want to associate 544 00:54:45,110 --> 00:54:49,150 myself with Mrs. Gilliran's description of features. What's important in the master 545 00:54:49,150 --> 00:54:53,210 plan is tell developers when you come here, we want to see these elements. And I think 546 00:54:53,210 --> 00:54:56,830 that's the right way to describe it. Mr. Burke, for example, in the bottom right 547 00:54:56,830 --> 00:55:02,190 hand corner the street muse alley. If it's a two over two unit that probably works perfectly 548 00:55:02,190 --> 00:55:06,470 well because you park one car in the garage or one car behind it. On the Boston Properties 549 00:55:06,470 --> 00:55:09,930 project we just approved we actually didn't do that. All the cars were inside and the 550 00:55:09,930 --> 00:55:14,310 alley was 22 feet. So that's an example of the flexibility. It's not just for the developer 551 00:55:14,310 --> 00:55:17,970 also staff to flip things around and turn them around to make sure the project sort 552 00:55:17,970 --> 00:55:21,950 of fits. I just want to give that granular example because I do think that the direction 553 00:55:21,950 --> 00:55:26,410 staff is headed we fully support them and you for your time working through these 554 00:55:26,410 --> 00:55:31,430 detailed issues. Okay. Thank you. Anyone else? 555 00:55:35,050 --> 00:55:39,790 Okay. Seeing no further comments, let me entertain 556 00:55:39,790 --> 00:55:46,890 a motion at this point. Mr. Chairman, I move that we keep the public hearing open and we 557 00:55:46,890 --> 00:55:55,170 continue our deliberation on the Comprehensive Plan Amendment, CPA number 23-01, to the 558 00:55:55,170 --> 00:56:06,720 public meeting, which is March 25th. Second. All right. Any discussion on that 559 00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:07,000 motion? 560 00:56:09,730 --> 00:56:14,870 Okay, seeing no further discussion, I'll call for a vote and ask the clerk 561 00:56:14,870 --> 00:56:20,250 to call the roll, please. Commissioner Elborasi. Yes. Commissioner Donahue. Yes. 562 00:56:21,010 --> 00:56:27,150 Commissioner McFarland. Yes. Vice Chair Burr. Yes. Thank you. And that is a vote 563 00:56:27,150 --> 00:56:35,030 of 4-0 in favor of continuance. And that vote concludes tonight's agenda. Is there a motion 564 00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:35,550 to adjourn? 565 00:56:37,070 --> 00:56:38,550 So moved, Mr. Chairman. 566 00:56:39,390 --> 00:56:39,750 Second. 567 00:56:40,670 --> 00:56:49,490 Okay. If there is no objection, Planning Commission meeting for this evening is adjourned at 8.56 568 00:56:49,490 --> 00:56:55,190 p.m. I'm sorry, 7.56 p.m. 569 00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:56,090 Do any of these again?