1 00:00:17,170 --> 00:00:27,190 Call the meeting of board of zoning appeal to order. For the record, we have a five member of the board of zoning appeal, our present, which is constituted corns. 2 00:00:27,930 --> 00:00:40,710 First item of business, the election of the chair and the vice chair and the definition of the secretary and the parliamentary for the 2024 term of the board of zoning appeal. 3 00:00:41,610 --> 00:00:46,770 I see that resolution I've been included in the meeting materials and I'm going to call 4 00:00:46,770 --> 00:00:52,750 up on Deputy Town attorney to provide short explanation of how the nomination resolution 5 00:00:52,750 --> 00:00:53,870 will proceed. 6 00:00:55,570 --> 00:00:55,870 Good evening. 7 00:00:56,330 --> 00:01:03,990 Thank you chair Kim and good to see all the members of the board this evening. 8 00:01:05,890 --> 00:01:14,250 The presentation of the nominations that's going to look just a little bit different this year. 9 00:01:15,290 --> 00:01:22,070 In coordination with the town clerk, there is a resolution that has been proposed with the staff report. 10 00:01:22,430 --> 00:01:30,550 The idea is you will go through the nomination process for chair and then vice chair and elect those officers. 11 00:01:30,550 --> 00:01:57,170 And the designation of the Secretary in the parliamentarian, our new, what we're just asking, again, and we've done this across the other boards and the Commission, is just to get on record that the bylaws do call that the zoning administrator is the designated staff for the board, I believe that's also in the town code. 12 00:01:57,170 --> 00:02:05,530 So, we're just putting on record and as that, they play the role of a secretary. 13 00:02:07,010 --> 00:02:13,090 And the nomination just calls for the zoning administrator or their designate to be secretary. 14 00:02:13,930 --> 00:02:23,630 And what the designate is, is the zoning administrator will appoint and designate the colon and era. 15 00:02:23,630 --> 00:02:27,170 because that's their formal role as clerk of boards and commissions. 16 00:02:28,170 --> 00:02:34,890 The parliamentarian role has always traditionally been the town attorney, and again, 17 00:02:35,110 --> 00:02:38,930 that's all that that is stating is you're just designating the town attorney or their 18 00:02:38,930 --> 00:02:44,490 designationee, and which I would be a designationee, as a deputy town attorney for this board. 19 00:02:45,710 --> 00:02:50,770 And so if you go through the actual election of the chair in the vice chair, 20 00:02:50,770 --> 00:02:58,050 the designation of the Secretary and the Parliamentarian, and then it's all put together in the final resolution 21 00:02:58,050 --> 00:03:08,430 that's adapted with the names of the new President or Chair and Vice Chair kind of filled in the draft resolution you have. 22 00:03:08,810 --> 00:03:16,350 So I know it's more steps and it was just something that was presented to do this year. 23 00:03:16,350 --> 00:03:19,050 So, if there are any questions, 24 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:35,060 so we'll do an election for chair, an election for a vice chair, and then do we need to do a separate motion to adopt the resolution with those two people and 25 00:03:35,060 --> 00:03:37,020 Yes, three of them for four. Okay. 26 00:03:37,460 --> 00:03:41,520 Okay. So just to kind of give you a heads up that the procedures is a little different. 27 00:03:41,860 --> 00:03:42,280 Okay. 28 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:43,080 Okay. 29 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:52,260 I thank you for the explanation. Okay first, I would like to make a motion to nominate 30 00:03:52,260 --> 00:04:01,460 mispares to the chair of the board of zoning appeal. Can I have second? Second? So we have 31 00:04:01,460 --> 00:04:05,460 motion, second is, and you discussion on the motion? 32 00:04:10,310 --> 00:04:11,270 I mean, does mispares 33 00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:13,030 accept the nomination. 34 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,860 I'll accept the nomination. And yet a discussion. 35 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:24,710 Call to the vote. 36 00:04:26,340 --> 00:04:36,500 Can we have the call? Miss Fry. Hi. Mr. Munt. Hi. Mr. Porter. Hi. Vice Chair Pierce. I. 37 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:38,620 And Chairman Kim. 38 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,240 So the vote carries unanimously five zero. 39 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,500 Now is there a motion to nominate the Vice Chair for the Board of Zoning Appeal? 40 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,180 Mr. Chairman, I'd like to nominate Steve. 41 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:10,960 Order is the vice chair. So, the nominations may be made second, second, aye. Okay. And any discussion on the nomination? 42 00:05:13,660 --> 00:05:17,280 Okay, we have the call for the vote. 43 00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:22,480 Ms. Fry. Aye. Mr. Mont. Aye. Mr. Porter. 44 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:23,860 have stained. 45 00:05:27,180 --> 00:05:36,700 Vice chair appears. Aye. And chair Kim. Aye. So the vote carries four in 46 00:05:36,700 --> 00:05:38,780 favor and one is there. 47 00:05:42,910 --> 00:05:45,790 Is there a motion to designate the zoning administrator 48 00:05:45,790 --> 00:05:53,110 or there doesn't need as the secretary for the board of zoning appeal? So moved. 49 00:05:54,990 --> 00:05:59,190 Okay, we had motion and second it any discussion on the motion? 50 00:05:59,510 --> 00:06:02,190 No, okay, we have a call on the vote. 51 00:06:02,450 --> 00:06:02,850 Ms. Fry? 52 00:06:03,710 --> 00:06:04,090 Aye. 53 00:06:04,890 --> 00:06:05,470 Mr. Munt? 54 00:06:05,870 --> 00:06:06,110 Aye. 55 00:06:06,510 --> 00:06:07,010 Mr. Porter? 56 00:06:08,990 --> 00:06:09,830 Vice Chair Pierce? 57 00:06:10,170 --> 00:06:10,370 Aye. 58 00:06:11,210 --> 00:06:11,850 Chair Kim? 59 00:06:12,490 --> 00:06:12,570 Aye. 60 00:06:13,810 --> 00:06:16,210 The vote carries five-zero. 61 00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:22,990 Now, is there a motion to designate the town attorney or the designate as a parliamentarian 62 00:06:22,990 --> 00:06:25,710 for the board of zoning appeal? 63 00:06:26,070 --> 00:06:27,310 So, move. 64 00:06:28,570 --> 00:06:28,890 Second. 65 00:06:31,810 --> 00:06:33,150 Any discussion on the motion? 66 00:06:34,170 --> 00:06:34,490 None. 67 00:06:34,970 --> 00:06:37,110 Can we have a call to vote? 68 00:06:37,730 --> 00:06:38,250 Ms. Fry. 69 00:06:38,610 --> 00:06:38,950 Hi. 70 00:06:39,390 --> 00:06:39,850 Mr. Munt. 71 00:06:40,110 --> 00:06:40,390 Aye. 72 00:06:40,810 --> 00:06:41,390 Mr. Porter. 73 00:06:41,890 --> 00:06:41,970 Aye. 74 00:06:42,330 --> 00:06:43,250 Vice chair of yours. 75 00:06:43,450 --> 00:06:43,710 Aye. 76 00:06:43,710 --> 00:06:45,630 The chair of Kim. 77 00:06:46,250 --> 00:06:46,290 Aye. 78 00:06:46,530 --> 00:06:47,310 The carries. 79 00:06:48,270 --> 00:06:48,770 Uh, vote carries. 80 00:06:49,350 --> 00:06:49,970 Five-zero. 81 00:06:52,900 --> 00:07:01,120 Is there motion to adopt the draft resolution dated January 25th, 2020, for with, um, 82 00:07:02,220 --> 00:07:07,100 mispares elective chair and misdevice. 83 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:08,220 Mr. Porter. 84 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:09,180 Mr. Porter. 85 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,320 Uh, I like there's a vice chair. 86 00:07:11,460 --> 00:07:15,820 It's only a administration and there doesn't need as a secretary and the town attorney and there 87 00:07:15,820 --> 00:07:20,630 Doesn't need to move, can we have seconds? 88 00:07:20,650 --> 00:07:23,950 Second, and it discussion on the motion. 89 00:07:24,830 --> 00:07:27,570 None, call for the vote. 90 00:07:28,110 --> 00:07:28,690 Miss Fry. 91 00:07:30,370 --> 00:07:31,310 Mr. Monti. 92 00:07:31,850 --> 00:07:31,870 Aye. 93 00:07:31,870 --> 00:07:32,390 Mr. Porter. 94 00:07:33,990 --> 00:07:34,750 Vice Chair Pierce. 95 00:07:35,270 --> 00:07:35,290 Aye. 96 00:07:35,710 --> 00:07:36,590 And Chair Kim. 97 00:07:37,170 --> 00:07:37,310 Aye. 98 00:07:38,230 --> 00:07:40,310 The vote carries 0, 5, 0. 99 00:07:41,750 --> 00:07:45,210 And next item on the business is approved with a minute 100 00:07:45,210 --> 00:07:50,490 for the December 21st, 2023, the board was earning a pill. 101 00:07:50,750 --> 00:07:54,350 Can we have motion on that? 102 00:07:56,750 --> 00:07:58,570 So, what's the second? 103 00:07:58,930 --> 00:08:02,090 Second, second, the discussion on the motion. 104 00:08:03,650 --> 00:08:05,250 I'm sorry, I missed two seconds. 105 00:08:05,950 --> 00:08:06,570 I did. 106 00:08:06,670 --> 00:08:07,590 Thank you. 107 00:08:10,010 --> 00:08:12,370 Okay, saying not call on the vote. 108 00:08:15,390 --> 00:08:15,990 Ms. Fry? 109 00:08:16,250 --> 00:08:16,570 Aye. 110 00:08:16,990 --> 00:08:17,470 Mr. Month? 111 00:08:17,790 --> 00:08:17,990 Aye. 112 00:08:18,330 --> 00:08:18,750 Mr. Porter? 113 00:08:18,750 --> 00:08:25,670 have stayed. Vice chair appears. Aye. And chair Kim. Aye. 114 00:08:26,410 --> 00:08:35,430 Vote carries four in favor and one is staying. Next we move the common portion of the agenda. 115 00:08:36,430 --> 00:08:41,490 Mr. Kim. Yes. One thing I wanted to point out that we didn't necessarily come for. 116 00:08:41,490 --> 00:08:47,090 Um, that, um, Ms. Pierce has been elected, chair now. 117 00:08:47,570 --> 00:08:48,990 So it's like she runs the meeting. 118 00:08:49,150 --> 00:08:52,210 I did, she, I, you technically, yes. 119 00:08:53,550 --> 00:08:57,070 But, um, what I don't know is, um, do you have a copy of the script? 120 00:08:57,290 --> 00:08:59,050 Yep, I can hand it over to you. 121 00:09:00,470 --> 00:09:01,810 That's a troll by fire. 122 00:09:02,250 --> 00:09:02,650 Oh, okay. 123 00:09:07,090 --> 00:09:09,570 Okay, so I think we've moved to the, uh, 124 00:09:09,570 --> 00:09:16,870 comments section. Okay, of the meeting. To begin with, are there any comments from any board members this evening? 125 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,800 I'm not sure exactly where this fits in the script, but a couple of things that occurred to me. 126 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:36,580 And one is after going down to the course at Virginia BCU down there. There were a lot of things that were brought up and a lot of great discussions. 127 00:09:36,580 --> 00:09:45,740 and one of them is that a strong business practice across the state is that they will take 128 00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:51,420 a member of the Board of Zoning Appeals and they will put that or make sure that there's a member 129 00:09:51,420 --> 00:09:56,660 of the Board of Zoning Appeals on the Planning Commission because it does the cross-fertilization 130 00:09:56,660 --> 00:09:59,880 and helps the Board of the Zoning Appeals understand. 131 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:11,380 And what's going on, as well as the planning commission when they're making decisions about zoning and other things, which is what our responsibility is so that we can avoid conflicts. 132 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:14,560 That's one, and I think it's something that we ought to look into. 133 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:26,320 The other one is that when you look at the workload currently, between the planning commission, the historic preservation review board, I think that's what it's called. 134 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:35,420 Well, I can't keep up with the acronyms, but, and then us, you could make the case that 135 00:10:35,420 --> 00:10:43,300 cups and sups, conditional and special use permits are permitted by Virginia code and law 136 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:50,900 to be delegated to the board of zoning appeals, and it would help balance out some of the 137 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:56,940 workload so that, you know, we were meeting on a more regular basis helping handle things for 138 00:10:56,940 --> 00:11:03,380 the town because we're all getting paid each month. Yeah, I mean, so it was both of those 139 00:11:03,380 --> 00:11:10,500 things are things I think that we as a board ought to consider and make a recommendation to the 140 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:16,720 town that says, hey, there is more that we can do. So I don't know what the new chair woman, thanks. 141 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:25,680 Or on that point I have a question, who currently here's conditional use permit applications and special use permit applications. 142 00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:34,780 Currently those are heard by the planning commission. They make a recommendation to the town council and then they ultimately vote on that. 143 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:40,980 To make any changes would require a change to the zoning ordinance. 144 00:11:40,980 --> 00:11:43,740 So you'd have to do a zoning ordinance tax demandment 145 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:47,300 that the planning commission and town council would review. 146 00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:50,080 So it would be a policy change. 147 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,980 I think what we could do is, 148 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,220 since we won't be adopting the bylaws tonight 149 00:11:59,220 --> 00:12:01,340 and we do have to come back for another meeting, 150 00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:05,160 I could work on a memo for the board 151 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,480 that kind of outliers what our ordinances currently say, 152 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,860 what would have to change both to get, 153 00:12:13,860 --> 00:12:18,960 have crossover between a BZA member and a planning commission member, 154 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:20,860 because right now, the zoning ordinance 155 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,020 wouldn't allow that, and members are, 156 00:12:24,020 --> 00:12:26,020 for both the planning commission and the BZA are appointed 157 00:12:26,020 --> 00:12:27,320 by the town council. 158 00:12:27,980 --> 00:12:31,360 So we can run through kind of all of those procedural steps 159 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:36,200 that would need to take place within the town attorney, 160 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:52,420 provide that to you at the next meeting when we're going to discuss the bylaws and then the board can discuss it with all that information and come up with some sort of recommendation if you want to send a recommendation to the town council. 161 00:12:52,420 --> 00:13:03,140 I think our good, I think our current Bala prevents us from holding any other position. 162 00:13:03,820 --> 00:13:07,000 It's the zoning ordinance that actually prevents that. 163 00:13:07,890 --> 00:13:10,420 But that's a herndon zone or it's correct. 164 00:13:10,580 --> 00:13:12,340 It is not a state ordinance. 165 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,540 I don't think there is. 166 00:13:14,540 --> 00:13:16,220 Because they wouldn't have presented it in the end. 167 00:13:16,220 --> 00:13:22,400 We think it was permissible by law and by ordinance through the state and through 168 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:31,360 the state legislature. And one of the kind of unique ways with the BZA in herndon is that 169 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,660 the council actually appoints the BZA members and most localities, it's the circuit court, 170 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:43,280 who appoints the BZA members. I don't know if that actually matters for this, but we're 171 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:49,800 more, you know, anything about the person. Right, I don't know what that makes any difference. And 172 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,720 I do know that there's a provision in the town code about BZA not serving on another board, 173 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:01,040 but I do not know if it is in the state code, but that's something that we could, you know, 174 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:01,280 right. 175 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,980 That's the only place I could find it was in the actual bylaws. 176 00:14:04,540 --> 00:14:10,180 And so I went back and said, well, then it's a bylaws change that reflects how we actually do business. 177 00:14:10,940 --> 00:14:15,420 But that's why I kind of wanted to come up and talk to you before we got out in public. 178 00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:17,000 So that we'd have a chance to look at that. 179 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:28,820 next maybe this one. So if it's a zoning ordinance, then it would even if we changed the 180 00:14:28,820 --> 00:14:37,540 bylaws of the BGA, that wouldn't matter. So that the crowds will have to have to change the 181 00:14:37,540 --> 00:14:43,420 ordinance. The one thing that I'm not sure that we would double check and know before the next 182 00:14:43,420 --> 00:14:53,160 I mean, if there's anything in the town charter about that because that's the case, when we're kind of stuck, if not, then there's a little bit more flexibility to change the ordinance. 183 00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:54,820 If. 184 00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:59,980 Just a question for clarification as you put that together, would you include sort of. 185 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:08,960 The count of how often like special exceptions actually come up over the last. I mean, I have a ten most count 186 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:17,380 town council meetings and it's there haven't been a lot of special exceptions over the last. We have the numbers for how many we have each year. 187 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:29,920 Okay. That's easy enough to provide. So I have a question. So zoning ordinance does prevent us from holding to position. 188 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:30,260 Right. 189 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:31,760 Okay. 190 00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:40,180 So, but you're saying that it's not, but it's not the state, but that's why it's all right. 191 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:44,480 So, so then it takes the action of the council to change that ordinance. 192 00:15:44,660 --> 00:15:44,760 Correct. 193 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,420 So, even if this board recommend, I guess we can recommend. 194 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:51,140 Right. 195 00:15:51,820 --> 00:15:51,940 Right. 196 00:15:56,900 --> 00:16:07,520 because if that's the case, then the legislature has to approve a change to the charter, which is a ugly process and has its own risk of opening the charter. 197 00:16:10,140 --> 00:16:10,600 So. 198 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:11,700 Anything else on this topic? 199 00:16:12,420 --> 00:16:13,320 It is one more thing. 200 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:20,800 And the problem with opening up the charter is once you open up the charter at the state, everything of the charter is open. 201 00:16:21,300 --> 00:16:27,500 And there is great angst in the town to do in that because there's a lot of things that we do that others don't do, 202 00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:29,260 that is based in our charter currently, 203 00:16:29,820 --> 00:16:33,120 that they would have to change to meet for at the state law. 204 00:16:35,810 --> 00:16:36,710 Okay, any other comments? 205 00:16:38,230 --> 00:16:40,890 Okay, any comments from staff tonight? 206 00:16:43,610 --> 00:16:46,310 No chairwoman, please, no comments from staff. 207 00:16:48,510 --> 00:16:50,410 Okay, normally we would have comments from citizens 208 00:16:50,410 --> 00:16:52,390 at this point, but seeing no one in the crowd, 209 00:16:52,530 --> 00:16:53,970 I think we'll keep moving. 210 00:16:58,090 --> 00:17:02,230 Okay, what is on our agenda for new business tonight? 211 00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:16,160 Okay, so our only item is tonight is the discussion and on the amendment and restating of the bylaws for the BCA. 212 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:18,740 And so I guess we'll move to a staff report. 213 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:21,620 Thank you, Madam Chair. 214 00:17:23,340 --> 00:17:24,680 So this is a project. 215 00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:32,580 The amendment and restatement of bylaws has, this is a project that staff has been working on for quite some time behind the scenes. 216 00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:43,160 Our office, the town attorney's office in conjunction with the town clerk and the clerk of the boards and commissions have been reviewing the bylaws. 217 00:17:43,380 --> 00:17:54,120 The idea initially was to see where we can create more consistency amongst the boards and the commission. 218 00:17:54,120 --> 00:18:04,140 There's also been slight change in terminology as to more so for the other boards and 219 00:18:04,140 --> 00:18:11,100 commission than this board with how we, there's work sessions in regular meetings rather 220 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:13,160 than work sessions in public hearings. 221 00:18:13,340 --> 00:18:17,260 The public hearing is just a portion of the regular meeting. 222 00:18:17,260 --> 00:18:41,680 And when we started to look at all the various boards and commissions, we realized that there was, there is a reason for differences mainly because either the state code provides something specific for that border commission or our own ordinance had dictated it as such. 223 00:18:42,420 --> 00:19:00,520 And one of the other things that we are, and you're going to see a slight change in how the items look, when they come, when they come to you, we have recently started using a new software program called Civic Plus. 224 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:08,140 It's right now, it's really a behind-the-scenes program that allows staff to put together the agendas. 225 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:18,140 So it's a specific software package. It has templates. It has internally, we get emails about one to review something. 226 00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:28,820 And with that, we wanted to also have some consistency with the agendas, because again, we're dealing with the template in the software. 227 00:19:28,820 --> 00:19:37,500 So that prompted also for us to be looking, be looking at the bylaws. 228 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:47,020 The one matter that I highlighted in the forefront was an attendance policy. 229 00:19:47,660 --> 00:19:54,760 There was discussion at the town council about adapting an attendance policy for council members. 230 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:59,960 This has been discussed, I believe, at the January, um, was- 231 00:20:00,740 --> 00:20:16,160 It's been a couple months that they've been discussing perhaps making an amendment to the code of ethics, which is section 2-5, or possibly even adopting another section of the town code to deal with attendance. 232 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:25,400 So, the idea was that the boards and commissions would be looking at adapting a similar provision in their bylaws to what the town council is considering. 233 00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:34,780 Part of the reason why would suggest we not adopt these changes is because, like I said, the town council hasn't made a final decision yet. 234 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,580 That could be this month, it could be next month. 235 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,740 And the other thing that has happened is as we have discussed the changes, but the different 236 00:20:44,740 --> 00:20:50,640 boards in the commission, questions have come up, suggestions, so what we're trying 237 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:56,180 to do is compile all the comments from the various boards and commissions, see what we have, 238 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:03,800 see if there's a way again to try to be uniform or maybe we, again, maybe we can't on those issues, 239 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:08,620 and then also wait to see what the town council does to incorporate all of that. 240 00:21:09,620 --> 00:21:14,540 The language on attendance is an article one at the Bialos, the draft Bialos. 241 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,360 There has always been a removal provision in the Bialos, 242 00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:26,040 and it's specifically in accordance with a town code section 78, 150.3, 243 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,280 where the code of ordinances state that any BCA member may be removed 244 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:37,660 by town council for malfeasance, misfeasants, or non-feasants in office. 245 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:44,860 So that has always been in the bylaws, but the new provision, again, as proposed right now, 246 00:21:44,860 --> 00:21:49,660 states that notwithstanding the following provision, which I had just read. 247 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,640 A member of the BCA may be removed from office by town council without limitation. 248 00:21:54,760 --> 00:22:01,260 If the member is absent from many three consecutive meetings of the BCA, or is absent from 249 00:22:01,260 --> 00:22:07,500 four meetings of the BCA within any 12-month period beginning upon the BCA members of 250 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:16,780 assumption and office. That exact language appears in our town code and in the state code 251 00:22:16,780 --> 00:22:24,340 but as it applies only to planning commission members right now. So what we did is we took that 252 00:22:24,340 --> 00:22:32,380 that the planning commission is subjected to already suggested it be adopted by the other boards. 253 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:38,060 And so that's exactly where the language comes from. 254 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,100 The town council language, again, nothing has been decided. 255 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:52,280 They talked about needing to be four consecutive meetings or 25% of the meetings before anything kicks in. 256 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,680 And from the town council's perspective, what they're looking at is a 257 00:22:56,680 --> 00:23:01,920 sensor that if a member is, and there's talk about adding, if 258 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:09,140 are absent, and it's not for good cause or it's not excused, then the 259 00:23:09,140 --> 00:23:15,360 sensor could happen. So again, there's, there's so working out the 260 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:31,360 specifics. So again, we're suggesting that this board. Again, put off actually voting on the adoption. Again, I think some of the other changes I had highlighted some. 261 00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:35,750 Let's see. 262 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:45,940 Before we move on to that, if we could just discuss that a little bit so that 263 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:53,560 you and Mr. Stromberg have more information. I mean, I understand what the town council is 264 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:59,920 trying to do and, you know, I hate to say, but I understand the background behind it too. But, 265 00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:13,120 you know, when you use words like three consecutive meetings, okay? So how do you then, in this, in this board, where we have quite a few meetings that we end up canceling because there's no work, 266 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:26,180 or those considered present meetings, or those considered not. In other words, if I miss one meeting and then the next two, because we don't meet, is that, you know, how is the, is there going to be a policy letter behind it? 267 00:24:26,180 --> 00:24:35,300 The other piece behind, not just the three, but if you have a good excuse, is it counted as an 268 00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:40,200 absence. So, you know, all of a sudden, I hate to say it, but at my age, I could end up in a hospital, 269 00:24:40,540 --> 00:24:46,400 as has happened in the past. I think that's probably a valid reason, but I'm happy to come in a robe. 270 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:53,720 You may not want that, but yeah, so I'm just trying to think down the road about the language and the 271 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,980 it is without a policy or some explanation. I'm not saying right all that in the 272 00:24:57,980 --> 00:24:59,980 bylaws, but there's got to be a... 273 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:06,980 Bigger explanation about what that means and how that's implemented, so in my opinion. 274 00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:25,380 And I think Board Member Munt, there was no staff was not expecting that there'd be another policy document behind the bylaws, but certainly I understand your point. 275 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:39,820 And right, consecutive meetings, I guess that could be for interpretation, I would say if you're not meeting because you don't have business, that doesn't count. Obviously no one is going to be there. 276 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:46,380 And that it would be three called meetings that you would be absent from. 277 00:25:46,980 --> 00:25:53,980 So again, the intent wasn't have to have further policy, but, and that's part of what I think 278 00:25:53,980 --> 00:26:00,100 town council is working through as well. And you're welcome to watch the last few meetings 279 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:07,460 and you can get a feel for more of the discussion. But again, I think that's the reason why good 280 00:26:07,460 --> 00:26:11,240 cause it has been added in the council. 281 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:15,100 That's before we let's like a bug down on this particular point. Do you want to finish 282 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:18,160 do you have more in your general presentation that may be in come back to specific points 283 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:24,600 and we can ask some more questions? Sure, I mean really quick article 4 has been changed. 284 00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:33,460 There has how a meeting, if a meeting is canceled, how it will be called this is now going to be 285 00:26:33,460 --> 00:26:40,700 consistent with which is what is in section 2-1 of the town code as to matters for council 286 00:26:43,360 --> 00:27:02,040 The other matter, and I'm going to bring it up because Mr. Porter had brought up a very good point and I believe we emailed his comments to you, the order of, I guess, how a matter is discussed before this board. 287 00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:15,400 That did change, the current bylaws do allow for discussion of the matter before a motion is actually before the board. 288 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:25,980 And that was suggested to change so that it would say that you put the motion on the table before and then have discussion on the matter. 289 00:27:26,780 --> 00:27:38,760 What we have found again, there was a difference between the boards and commissions, so we had suggested the change by putting the motion first, which is also consistent with the town council. 290 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:54,680 So, but Mr. Porter brought up some some points, and again, if you're willing, if you're wanting to have a discussion about that, again, typically there's no discussion until a motion has been put on the table. 291 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:14,920 So I think those were kind of the highlights, I don't know, we provided you with the red line copy, I know it's still kind of messy because we've moved things around and things like that, but certainly if you have any specific questions, you know, please let me know where we can discuss the other matters. 292 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:21,980 Some is similar. At this juncture, you've gone through your presentation. What is your vision for the outcome of this evening? 293 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:28,620 What do you want from us this evening and when we leave tonight, what will be a successful meeting from your standpoint? 294 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:36,600 So I think, you know, again, if there are concerns, like we're just voiced about the attendance. 295 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:50,940 If there are some concerns about the ordering, again, the motion on the table versus not, I guess I'd like to have maybe a list of things that you are concerned about. 296 00:28:51,540 --> 00:29:00,020 If you have suggestions, you know, let me know, or if you want staff to come back with some proposed changes. 297 00:29:00,020 --> 00:29:00,560 Okay. 298 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:10,920 Was there a further comment on the attendance policy? Yes, good. 299 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:19,920 Just real briefly, should the town council pursue a percentage-based type thing? 300 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:26,960 I think there would have to be some exception for this body, because we met what? 301 00:29:27,620 --> 00:29:40,520 4 times, 3 times last year. So, you know, saying that you can't miss more than, you know, 25% of the meetings, some years for us could literally mean if you miss one meeting you're kicked out. 302 00:29:41,180 --> 00:29:52,540 So, I think that would, if they choose to go down that path, I think we would have to be careful of how it applies to this board just because of the unusual dynamic of how our meetings are held. 303 00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:59,020 like the Council or even the Planning Commission, you know, Planning Commission has what two meetings a month. 304 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,480 And those are fairly regularly held. The council, of course, has four meetings plus retreats and stuff. 305 00:30:08,420 --> 00:30:15,440 So, I mean, this board meets by far the least frequently of any even if we're meeting on schedule. 306 00:30:15,860 --> 00:30:21,320 So, that I think that would be a concern. Anything else on that on that point? 307 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,880 I'm all, I might, anything else on that, particular point. 308 00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:33,080 Okay, why don't we move to order of the public hearing? 309 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,120 Components, you wanna start? 310 00:30:35,020 --> 00:30:37,420 Yeah, I guess one thing I've noticed, 311 00:30:37,700 --> 00:30:39,080 and this is where it's a little differently. 312 00:30:39,140 --> 00:30:42,740 First of all, obviously Robertson thinks it does allow 313 00:30:42,740 --> 00:30:48,110 for specific bylaws to override the general practice 314 00:30:48,820 --> 00:30:50,960 and also a small board rules, 315 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:56,140 which we haven't formally adopted and must be suggesting we should do allow for that as well. 316 00:30:57,180 --> 00:31:02,700 But where I found it's sort of different is in most cases, there is a motion that's coming up. 317 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:10,340 You know, it's issue X has a motion that's being brought up by the council, whatever. 318 00:31:11,020 --> 00:31:18,040 In our cases, there's usually three different possible motions and at least on a few occasions, 319 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,740 Because I think there's been some confusion or some wishes among the members of this thing 320 00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:27,080 that maybe we had discussed a little bit more which motion to bring forward. 321 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,220 And so that's why I think it might be useful. 322 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:37,100 And then also one part that just has sort of been confusing to me over the year is, you 323 00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:37,620 know, what do we do? 324 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:39,180 We bring up a motion to deny. 325 00:31:40,780 --> 00:31:47,060 If that motion should fail, it doesn't mean that the variance is granted. 326 00:31:47,060 --> 00:31:54,160 It means we now have to bring up either a motion to approve or a motion to approve with conditions. 327 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,800 And so it just gets sort of awkward whereas if we have at least a little back and forth prior to that, 328 00:32:00,180 --> 00:32:08,300 we can sort of get a feeling for which general path we're trying to go in and then bring that motion, 329 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:13,180 discuss that motion, vote on that motion. Not a guarantee that we won't have to have multiple motions 330 00:32:13,180 --> 00:32:19,220 because it could fail with special conditions or things like that as well, but that was my concern 331 00:32:19,220 --> 00:32:20,880 and thoughts around it. 332 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:31,120 My concern, I agree with what Vice Chair Porter had suggested and I 333 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:37,280 think we have this example in mind, had there been discussion for me, it's not even so much about 334 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:42,880 like which direction we're all looking to go in, but just even through the learning process, 335 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:50,480 right of being new to this and most of us being new to this in the last year had there been 336 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:57,960 discussion there's one case in my mind that sticks out among the rest that had there been 337 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:06,200 discussion before the motion my mind would have been changed because from other people who've been 338 00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:12,520 here longer that you know you have the expertise and the practice and seeing different cases 339 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:20,840 and similar cases that, anyway, the discussion would have changed my position on it, and I wish 340 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:28,200 I do wish we had had it before the motion was brought forth. So yeah, I think the the movement 341 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:37,860 of the order, as we're allowed to, I think I would prefer to have it discussion before the motion. 342 00:33:39,780 --> 00:33:47,780 I think if that is allowed, it might be helpful as well. 343 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:59,480 I think people get confused on the motion to make and then forget what the motion is. 344 00:34:00,060 --> 00:34:04,560 So I think we have the discussion, then I have the motion and vote. 345 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,680 I think that might be more streamlined process. 346 00:34:13,340 --> 00:34:19,720 I agree with Vice Chairman Porter and in part of it is, and I'm only going back to the training 347 00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:25,160 I've had because we went so, so a few times, you know, there's not a, we don't have the 348 00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:30,260 opportunity that I know of to go to close session where we can just have a private discussion. 349 00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:37,140 And so that discussion is invaluable because as we were reviewing cases, as small groups 350 00:34:37,140 --> 00:34:39,780 which is basically the same as the commission, 351 00:34:40,340 --> 00:34:42,380 what you would find is a complete misunderstanding 352 00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:45,940 between different people of what the issue was 353 00:34:45,940 --> 00:34:47,540 and where we're voting on emotions, 354 00:34:47,980 --> 00:34:50,700 where we're voting on law, what we're voting on, 355 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,340 and that's, I think that's an important element 356 00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:56,380 of what we're doing, and to learn from people 357 00:34:56,380 --> 00:34:59,420 who've been doing this for a while, is helpful. 358 00:34:59,420 --> 00:34:59,960 Thanks for watching, and I'll see you in the next video, and I'll see you in the next video, and I'll see you in the next video. 359 00:35:00,020 --> 00:35:20,020 So I agree. So yeah. So it sounds like there was a consensus or a unanimous, I'm going to make it unanimous. I want to definitely put it out there. I strongly favor this. I think not only is it helpful to the board members. I think it's particularly jarring to applicants and 360 00:35:20,020 --> 00:35:27,300 And town resident who have come to participate in the process when we hear a presentation, 361 00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:31,620 and it almost appears as if we're given it no consideration and we go straight to motion. 362 00:35:32,540 --> 00:35:36,300 I think it would be helpful to everybody involved, and it doesn't have to be a rousing argument 363 00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:44,380 up here, but it can be a true comments on an indication of which way you might vote, why 364 00:35:44,380 --> 00:35:48,400 you might vote that way, which factors were important to you, and I think it explains the process 365 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:49,220 for everybody better. 366 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:51,880 So that's where my weight behind that one as well. 367 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,940 Okay, I think last month would have been an example. 368 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,460 We were all kind of like, yeah, this one's easy. 369 00:35:56,780 --> 00:35:56,860 Right. 370 00:35:56,980 --> 00:35:59,520 There are others that are going to be so ready and haven't been easy. 371 00:36:00,380 --> 00:36:04,200 So yeah, no, definitely a proof in favor of moving that. 372 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,640 Okay, so that's two issues. 373 00:36:07,820 --> 00:36:09,560 Does anyone have any comments on anything else 374 00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:14,240 that stuck out that concerned them in the Bible revisions 375 00:36:15,860 --> 00:36:17,060 or they liked? 376 00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:23,900 They didn't like, yes, no, oh, you're sorry, okay, I just, I think we've got at least make it 377 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:30,340 known that as we go forward and review the code, that that would cause the bylaws to be changed 378 00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:37,470 where it says you can that hold another office. Okay, so. 379 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:45,440 Okay. Yes, I'm sorry. Oh, I just wanted to say, 380 00:36:45,440 --> 00:37:02,620 Overall, I am very supportive of most of these changes and just wanted to express my appreciation for all of the time and effort that staff has put into making these changes and reviewing it, so I wanted that on my record as well. 381 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:16,360 Second. I have a question about Article 6. It really relates to participants not on the board, 382 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:26,080 so members of the public who come forward to them. I'm curious in particular about the proper decorum provision. 383 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:43,380 I guess my question is how is that enforced and is that going to be the written standard for all boards and the town council and what kind of problem would prompted this? 384 00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:53,160 Right. So again, you're talking about article six, the under I guess it's actually subsection B proper decorum. 385 00:37:53,160 --> 00:38:04,120 Yes, there is a statement that the that the mayor makes before every every meeting in which there I think it's even the work session 386 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:13,220 But I think more so for sure the regular meetings and the idea was that the language that we have added in here again 387 00:38:13,220 --> 00:38:19,060 It mirrors what instruction has been given for town council meetings 388 00:38:19,060 --> 00:38:44,180 So, nothing necessarily specific, again, this was just an attempt to keep things similar and I'm trying to remember there was, there was a small section before if you look at old article 5, it just simply said, 389 00:38:44,180 --> 00:38:47,100 conduct of members of the board of, 390 00:38:47,100 --> 00:38:49,760 oh no, that's the board members, sorry. 391 00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:52,360 I'm trying to find there was another section 392 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,920 about people appearing before the board. 393 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:57,260 This is right above 394 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:04,460 the board. 395 00:39:04,460 --> 00:39:05,660 That's exactly it. 396 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,920 So yeah, if you look at the red line version on page seven, 397 00:39:10,460 --> 00:39:12,180 same article article six, 398 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:14,860 there's subsection A public comment 399 00:39:14,860 --> 00:39:18,520 and then that crossed the strike through language right above B 400 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,860 Well, it says comments should be addressed to the item before the BZA, 401 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:24,980 if a comment is irrelevant in flammatory or prejudicial, 402 00:39:25,140 --> 00:39:27,760 the chair mainstruck members to disregard the comment, 403 00:39:28,660 --> 00:39:31,180 which nevertheless remains on the public record. 404 00:39:32,180 --> 00:39:36,520 So again, it's just a more general statement about proper decorum. 405 00:39:42,910 --> 00:39:49,830 But the question that I heard that you're, say, was how do it was enforced? 406 00:39:50,530 --> 00:39:52,690 It would be by the chair. 407 00:39:53,490 --> 00:39:59,310 The chair has the authority to, again, if the chair feels an individual is not respectful. 408 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:15,900 You know, making improper comments, then it's up to the chair to speak. I mean, I guess a member up here could say something, but it is, as, as the, as the chair, it really does fall in there. 409 00:40:17,060 --> 00:40:27,180 I think I was going to the next step, but the chair looks at somebody and says, hey, you know, we need to get ourselves back in proper decor and we need to, you know, respect each other. 410 00:40:27,180 --> 00:40:29,760 we're not talking at each other, we're having a discussion, 411 00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:32,800 however the chair would handle it would be totally appropriate, 412 00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:35,220 but if the individual continues to go on, 413 00:40:36,540 --> 00:40:39,120 is that where the chair calls an end of the meeting 414 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,640 and we get up and walk out? 415 00:40:40,860 --> 00:40:43,180 Is that where there's a police officer in the back room 416 00:40:43,180 --> 00:40:46,220 because the town council has a police officer 417 00:40:46,220 --> 00:40:47,660 at every town council meeting? 418 00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:50,020 Yes, and we usually do not. 419 00:40:50,540 --> 00:40:52,580 Right, I mean, let's hope it doesn't get to that. 420 00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,880 I'm hoping it never does, I'm just playing it out. 421 00:40:57,260 --> 00:41:01,420 Okay. Any other particular sections anybody wants to discuss? 422 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,260 I had one other one, which was Article 7. 423 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,240 What would be the new subsections see on a necessary vote? 424 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,920 The last sentence. A favorable vote of at least three members of the BZH. 425 00:41:16,940 --> 00:41:20,300 I'll be necessary to reverse the determination of the design administrator on appeal. 426 00:41:21,220 --> 00:41:23,140 Is that new? 427 00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:31,500 No, and if we have just a quorum of three on that particular evening, then it's going to be a unanimous vote. 428 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,740 Madam Chair, that's actually a requirement of the state code. 429 00:41:35,820 --> 00:41:36,100 Okay. 430 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:43,140 When it comes to board of zoning issues, it also, I haven't checked whether our bylaws have it. 431 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:51,220 But the state code also has a catch in there that if it's less than a quorum present and it looks like the vote could go either way. 432 00:41:51,220 --> 00:41:57,860 the entire board was present. This board can actually move to a stand-in issue to the next meeting. 433 00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:06,120 Right, so. Okay. If I could just quickly add to that typically, if we know in advance 434 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:11,500 that one or two members won't be there, we will reach out to the applicant and say, 435 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:18,200 you have the right to, you know, request that your case be deferred or continued to the following month 436 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,900 because we know that there will be one or two members, not present. 437 00:42:24,850 --> 00:42:26,370 Anything else from anybody? 438 00:42:27,470 --> 00:42:27,650 Okay. 439 00:42:27,930 --> 00:42:30,830 Do you have enough that you, what you need from us for tonight? 440 00:42:31,790 --> 00:42:32,250 I do. 441 00:42:32,370 --> 00:42:33,450 Thank you very much. 442 00:42:34,030 --> 00:42:37,130 So, again, I don't know when we will be back. 443 00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:45,870 I guess depending on whether there's applications or, again, once we're ready to move this forward with the others, 444 00:42:46,070 --> 00:42:50,130 then we'll call another regular meeting in order to discuss this. 445 00:42:50,130 --> 00:42:56,890 and again the bylaws require that we send you the changes at least 30 days prior to the meeting. 446 00:42:57,030 --> 00:43:02,370 The other boards actually have to discuss it at two meetings, but I think someone realized that 447 00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:06,910 this board doesn't meet as often and changed that provision for for that reason. 448 00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:11,430 So, okay. Thank you. Okay. Anything else before we adjourn? 449 00:43:13,650 --> 00:43:15,730 Okay. I will entertain a motion to adjourn. 450 00:43:17,550 --> 00:43:20,150 Madam Chair, I make motion to adjourn. 451 00:43:20,150 --> 00:43:32,530 Second. Second. Okay, there's no objection. B.C.A. will now adjourn at 7.43. Oh, this is exciting.