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Good evening everyone. We're going to
get started. Uh thanks for coming out

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tonight for our track redevelopment
meeting. We're still waiting on a couple

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people, but I figure we'll get started
and we'll we'll roll right in. Um just a

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couple house. By the way, I'm Terry for
those of you who don't know me. I'm the

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burough administrator and economic
development director. very excited to

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have um the opportunity to present kind
of where we are on this long awaited

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project. Um but a couple just pointers,
housekeeping items. Um we will be

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recording the meeting. We are zooming
the meeting uh and so everybody will

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have the opportunity who couldn't be
here tonight to watch the video and

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download uh the slide deck uh from our
website after the meeting. So that's all

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going to be available. I've gotten that
question a couple times. Our website's

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uh hpb.com.
So, um you can take as many notes as you

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like. Uh but you'll also be able to um
download the slides for yourself um

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afterwards. Um with that, I think that's
that's it. Um there will be opportunity

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for questions and comments, but we're
going to get through the presentation

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deck first and um we'll uh do the
questions at the end and we'll stay as

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long as the questions in the room. All
right. Thank you. And with that, I'd

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like to introduce Mayor Foster. She's
going to kick us off uh get the program.

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Good evening everyone and evening.
>> Thank you all for coming out on a

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Thursday night. Um it's exciting to be
here and to talk about where we are with

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this project, this very very very very
long waited project and um we showed you

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some slides
a few years ago now and um we have

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wrapped up what we're going to do. We're
looking forward to having

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groundbreaking.
But before we do that, we wanted was to

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show you where we are in the process and
to get any insights or final inputs that

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you may have. But I'm really excited
about getting the project going because

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it's been over 20 years in the waiting
for us to get something in our downtown

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to keep our town um create a thrivable
downtown. And that's the goal is to

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create more traffic in our downtown,
have our town stay alive because if it

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stays the same way it is, it's not on a
good track. But I strongly believe that

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this is going to be a part of a project
that will help to rejuvenate our

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downtown.
And with that said, I'm going to

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acknowledge my council member. We have
council member Jason Pollston, council

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member Hail, Council Member Hirs in the
room with us tonight. And also I want to

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say a special thanks to our economic
development chair um Terry Jover. She

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has put in yman's worth of work on this
project and I can't begin to thank her

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enough from you know the dayto-day and
us going over every facet of the project

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and revisions after revisions. Thank
you, Terry. And also, Chris Kazenza,

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want to thank you for your hard work on
this because many, many times we've been

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on the phone and trying to make sure
that the stuff fits. And Joe Bowman,

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can't say how much I rely on your help
and your guidance and all the legal ease

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through this process. But with that
said, I'm going to introduce you to the

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the chair of our economic development
committee, and that's council member

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Hail. And at this time I'm going to ask
him to come up and say a few words

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because I see Bry's here and I think
that I would love for you to lend your

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voice to this conversation. Thank you.

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» Thank you very much, Mayor. Is this
working well? Oh, there we go. Okay. Um,

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I just wanted to to to say a couple
things and and add my sincere thanks to

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Chris and to Joe and to Terry, to our
professional staff um for the tremendous

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amount of work that it takes um to bring
a project like this to fruition. Um the

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pictures that we've seen and the
pictures that you're going to see

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tonight um we'll show you the front,
show the aside, show you the room, show

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you give you quite amount of detail. But
when you think about the number of

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things that we have to do to figure out
that the sewer works and that the

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streets work and all of those things, it
really is an amazing um amount of

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technical work um at the city, at the
burough level, at the county level, at

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the state level. And it really has been
sort of a an eye openening a process for

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me to see what it takes to have a de
development like this come to fruition.

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Um as the mayor said, this is a long
time coming. Um we have been thinking

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about things to do to revitalize
downtown um uh for over 20 years. Um

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this particular project um we first went
out to bid to to think about this um

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over five years ago. We've had hundreds
of meetings, hundreds of of sessions

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working out the details of this and and
this is a a great opportunity to see

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where we've come out and where this um
where this project is going to go. This

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project has been designed from day one
to try and bring more people right on

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the avenue. Bring more people to the
avenue, more people to the businesses,

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and more people to our community. Um,
and it is also um uh exciting to see

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that as this project at the at track C
right next door on Third Avenue, we're

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moving right along with our our project
for a downtown park for turning the

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third burrow plaza. Um, so right near
there at Burough Square, excuse me,

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sorry, it's Burough Square. Marketing
all the time. Um, Burough Square where

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we're going to have have not only just
um the excitement of this new

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development, but right next to it um uh
we're going to have a public space, a

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very public park right on a street. And
so those things are moving in tandem. Um

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this is going to change Highland Park.
There's no doubt about that. It's going

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to change it. We think it's going to
change for the better. I think it's

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going to revitalize businesses up and
down the avenue. We think it's going to

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revitalize um and energize uh uh
Highland Park in a way that we've seen

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through the a process in other towns
that has followed. Um we follow

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Matuchin, we follow Somerset, we follow
a number of different places where a

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project just like this um has really
kickstarted and and kicked off a town.

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Um so we're really really excited to
this um uh we have some great pictures

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tonight. of great professionals um to
talk about this.

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But as all of this teamwork on the
public side um has has brought this

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together, we're also partners with our
developer um our developer is Brett

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Tansman and Garden Homes. He's here in
the back today. Um uh Brett right there

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all the way in the back. Um, and Brett
is is um since day one of this project,

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Brett has looked at this um I think with
the eye of this is a good project for

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him. Without a doubt, this is good, but
it is also a good project for a town

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that he knows very well. Um, and in fact
grew up in um in in some respects. Um,

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he's been a partner in this. Um we've
had disagreements, we've had hugs, we've

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had all of these things, but we've come
to a place where we think that this

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project um uh as a partnership um really
is going to be a great thing for for the

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town. Um did Brett want to say do Brett
you want to say any words or you want to

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» Sure. I'm happy to after presentation
whatever.

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» Come on up Brett. Let's uh

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also like to recognize that Councilman
Councilwoman Norma Vargas has joined us

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as well. Um so um add that to the mix.
So um you know Brett just to couple

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words about your your company, where
you're from and just introduce yourself.

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You'll be around for questions and all
that. I think that's great. But after

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we're done, we're gonna hear from our
professionals. We're going to hear um

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walk through the project. Um we're
looking forward to questions. We're

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looking forward to um a discussion. And
we're excited from here. Right.

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» Um
good evening everyone, mayor, council,

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uh professionals, members of the
community, uh our neighbor, Pastor Seth.

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Um,
my name is Brett Tansman. Uh, and we're

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I'm part of represented as the the
developer and developer garden homes.

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Um, we have a long history of of working
in many communities uh redevelopment

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and I personally, as as Councilman Hill
said, have a deep uh history in Highland

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Park. Uh I think five generations of my
family have have lived in this

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community. Um and it's a special place
and we want to build a project and I

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hope you'll you'll see and this is not a
site plan application today. It's just a

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high level conversation but we want to
build a project that uh I want to be

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just as proud of it as hopefully all of
you are um and really have a deep impact

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on the community for generations to
come. So, I didn't want to take up too

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much time. I'm happy to answer
questions. Um, and hopefully down the

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street you've seen we've developed
redeveloped the Frederick. Um and

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there's a number of other projects in
the surrounding community uh that we can

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point to where we had a positive um
relationship with the municipality and

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with the public where at first they had
concerns and uh ultimately they they

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know that what we say we're going to
deliver we're going to deliver. So we're

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excited about the prospects of of this
project and the opportunity and um just

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grateful to be here. So, thank you.

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» All right. Thanks, uh, Brett. And, and
you'll stick around, so if there's some

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questions, great. Um, so good. Oh, I
should have probably put this up

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earlier. Welcome and introductions.
Check. Um, but what we're about to go

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through and then as you can see, we'll
get to questions and comments. Um, we

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are I'm going to kind of do a refresher
on the project because we recognize

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we've been in kind of collaboration
negotiation mode with Garden Homes for

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quite some time and the community hasn't
heard about other than we're working on

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it. We're working on it uh in a while.
So, I'm going to kind of click through

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some overview sides of kind of what
we're trying to achieve with the project

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and then I'm going to hand it over to
our redevelopment council, Joe Bowman,

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to walk us through the terms of the
redevelopment agreement that we've all

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kind of we think we're we're pretty much
there uh in terms of the things that

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need to be memorialized in that
agreement. And we've done a fiscal

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analysis related to a potential
financial agreement as well that Joel

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will walk us through and kind of give
you a sense for if this moves forward,

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what the timelines would look like and
so forth. And a lot of which is

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articulated in the reveloping room. Feel
free to sit over here. You can just stay

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stand over here too. Um so with that,
I'd like to just uh click in to um kind

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of where have we been? Oh, thanks. Um we
uh you might remember I presented a

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version of this uh a few years ago. In
2005 we adopted a downtown redevelopment

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plan that included uh what we're now
calling the track Clayite which I should

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say is between on Ritton between second
and third uh southside. Um and we've

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been plugging away and a few years ago
in 2021

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uh we took a new approach where we
identified four tracks downtown AB C and

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D where we did sight specific
redevelopment plan for that. We issued

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an RFP that same year. We took some
time, got proposals in and garden homes

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was one of those proposals that we liked
and we ultimately ended up designating

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them as the conditional developer for
track C, the site we're talking about

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tonight. Um, over between 22 and 26, we
took a lot of time. We had a community

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meeting in 2024 where we showed a lot of
photos and answer a lot of questions. We

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took a lot of that input to heart in the
in the design work that's been going on.

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Um but uh essentially we did expand the
redevelopment area because there were

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additional tracks that Garden Homes had
acquired and brought into the project.

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Um we amended the redevelopment plan
accordingly in line with the vision of

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the project that came together in 2425.
Um and then most recently the final

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parcel kind of was a way to put a point
in it was uh purchased in 2026

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uh just about a month ago. So, that was
kind of the last piece of the puzzle, so

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to speak, so that we could move the
project forward. Um, and now we're in

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the process of we've been discussing our
redevelopment agreement, which Joe's

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going to walk you through shortly, um,
and the terms of a potential financial

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agreement. and um Garden Homes has been
pulling their materials and actually has

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begun the process for a site plan
application which would be if we come to

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a redevelopment agreement would be the
the next step that could take place in

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October or November of this year. So
just to give you a sense of the projects

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kind of finally pulling together after
all this time of discussion and I must

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confess the question I get more often
than not now is like is anything ever

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going to happen? Not I don't want this
to happen. So, I hope you'll see we've

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made some progress and we're ready to
move forward. But I I promise a

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refresher course for some of you who may
or may not have been uh at our previous

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meetings or familiar with the project,
but currently you're you're back to New

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Brunswick. You're standing across the
street on Raron Avenue looking uh

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towards Second South Second. And here's
these are the exact pictures we showed

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in June of 2024. I couldn't believe it
was 2024. Um, and this is a concept

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rendering of what we would like to build
here. And similarly, walking down the

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street a little further away,
we've got another we kind of a

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brownstone walk up. And then we have um
some covered uh public space, which I'll

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talk about in a little bit. And then
just looking the other way, looking down

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from uh
we're looking at uh that's the building

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looking down towards New Brunswick. So
these are the same pictures we showed

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way back when and I'm pleased to report
that after a lot of due diligence on the

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part of garden homes from geotechnical
to storm water design and engineering

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uh they figured out a way to build a
project. And so that's what a lot of the

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um due diligence that we've been doing
these last few years at this point has

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been to figure out how to make it work
and to fully program the building. How

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many units can it really support parking
spaces and things like that? Um this is

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my little scheme, so I'll take full
credit for any mistakes that are on this

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this detail. But just to break down the
building a little more, it's one

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building, but it's designed to look like
five. So that I, you know, if you saw as

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we walked down the street, you could see
different typologies,

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you know, different setbacks and things
because we really recognize it's large

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scale for Highland Park, but we want it
to fit in. Um, so it's one building as

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this diagram and this is really kind of
like the first floor. See if this works.

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So at the corner, this is the south
second and corner division is a

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restaurant. Fairly large one footpoint
there. Uh these are those brownstone

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style residential units that we saw on
the rendering. Um moving forward, this

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is a a pedestrian connection through to
Magnolia Street and to Raritin, which

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I'll talk a little more about. Um this
has now been reinvisioned as potential

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retail or commercial space as of right
now. Um a lobby space that was this is

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all fronting Ritan. And then this is
very exciting for us. uh indooroutdoor

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public space that the burrow can use.
The indoor space will be exclusive to

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our operations and then this is a shared
uh covered outdoor space uh that both

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the residents here but also the general
public can utilize as well. And then

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kind of capping things off here uh
retail and commercial at the end. So

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we've got it kind of smack, you know,
that was you know a little bit more

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commercial than maybe we thought when we
first started the project. Um very kind

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of the parking is interesting. It's on
two levels. They don't speak to each

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other. You can't drive from the lower
level to the upper level. So you access

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the lower level from south second. And
uh this way and again this is just a

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first level scheme that I've imposed my
own lines and drawings on. Um, and then

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the other way on the upper level, which
is really more at grade when you're

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coming in off Magnolia Street, will be
access from Magnolia Street. Importantly

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to the burrow, um, and highlighted in
this yellow bar is we've kind of come to

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agreement that there'll be 40 public
spots in perpetuity. Um and the ones on

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the surface lot that we're we've already
utilized currently will remain as public

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spots in perpetuity. Um again uh I
believe it's about um 27 on the surface

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lot and 13 interior, but it's definitely
40 total. So I'll let Brett speak to

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that if I got something wrong. Um, so
we're really talking about, and I should

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mention the final programming came to
134 new apartments, downtown living with

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20 of them, 15% being affordable. Um,
about 14,000 square feet of retail and

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commercial space broken down as I kind
of write there on the screen for you. um

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that indoor outdoor space comes to a
total of 6,000 square feet of indoor

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outdoor space, the 40 spaces of
permanent public parking, and then a

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total of 250 spaces. So that's kind of
like the broad strokes of the project

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that some of you who may not be as
familiar with it. I feel like I've been

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studying it for four years. Uh so sorry
if I I went through it. A couple really

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important things that we want to
highlight, and this is just a kind of a

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zoom in on the landscape plan. Um, we
this pedestrian connection I mentioned

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before, it it is ADA accessible. There
is an elevator or stairs that one can

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utilize. I'll let somebody else who
knows the the program better than I

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explain exactly how it works. And very
importantly, in the lower left here, um,

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it's designed to feel welcoming to the
public because it is a public access

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point through that we are a midblock
crossing there. Um, and it's important

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and uh, Garden Homes has agreed to some
probably a sculpture of some sort, maybe

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some public art mural up here. We're
going to negotiate that and we're going

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to come together on that, but they've
committed to that and in our

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discussions, which we're really excited
about as an opportunity to to really

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personalize the project to Highland
Park. Um, this is that covered uh,

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public space outside of the indoor
community space. Um, it'll be furnished

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and finished for us uh by Garden Homes
and they're going to help us maintain

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it. We'll also have a role in keeping it
nice and maintain maintaining it, but

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it'll include lighting. Both of these
spaces will be well lit and inviting and

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really kind of add a lot to the
downtown. Um, importantly, um, and we

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heard from our shade tree folks
especially, we're going to have new tree

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pits where we can and we're going to
have enhanced tree pits so we can

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hopefully see our trees really thrive
and they also serve a better green

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infrastructure purpose. Um, and there's
also landscaping uh throughout which if

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you're really into the into that, you
can follow their application to the

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planning board uh where they'll go into
a lot more detail about uh what they

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have in mind and and the finishing
touches. So, in a nutshell, um this is

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how the project is going to work. Uh one
thing I should mention is from the rear,

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while I don't have a good drawing of
this, the building stays to three

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floors. uh in the back on this area and
this is an amenity deck area uh that's

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intentional to step back from the church
property and from some of the

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neighboring properties thereby so we
don't the the taller portion of the

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building will be closer you know in this
more front part closer to rare nav which

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was all stuff we put in the re uh
redevelopment plan to try to manage uh

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uh putting a larger building where one
wasn't for I think I covered all my

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bullets, so we'll move on. Oh, this is
just a concept plan for what would be

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our interior um community space. It's
basically a multi-purpose room. We're

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envisioning it for Wouldn't it be great
to have uh art exhibits coming through,

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other kinds of performances potentially?
And we may be some of these things may

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move, but we'll definitely have full
functioning restroom, a a more of a

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closed office setup and a pantry as
well. So if we want to host meetings or

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events in there, we have what we need to
do that. And then also really neat,

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there will be some larger doors here um
so that they can be kind of opened up.

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So if we have an indoor outdoor event um
we can accommodate that as well. Um, and

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so, you know, we get we get the full
benefit of the 6,000 square foot of

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space. Um,
and then I just can't end without, you

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know, by the way, we've got another
project which you heard a couple times

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mentioned. We have our Traxxy
redevelopment project, but then we're

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also have been working hard on the
Burough Square Plaza, uh, which is on

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South Third Avenue, uh, the the closed
portion of South Third being from where

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my my arrow is here. Um and then our
expanded parking port and support

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functions will be over there. Um those
are um you know this is integral because

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we know we'll be displacing activities
from uh track C uh to this new

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refurbished space. Uh so we're really
excited these two projects are coming

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together. Um, and just as a in case you
haven't heard, these are this is a just

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a quick rendering of the Burough Square
project looking from Raritin towards

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Magnolia Street. Um, there's a lot of
information about that project up on our

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website as well. Happy to answer some
questions, but we're really focused on

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uh the track portion of this, but the
two things have been kind of discussed

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hand inand So, I just wanted to make
sure everybody was oriented to, you

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know, what's happening where. Um, I
think that was all I was going to cover

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and I and with that I was going to
invite Joe to come walk you through the

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terms of the redevelopment agreement.
Joe, that should work hopefully.

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Thanks.

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» Hey, Joe. How we doing?
Awesome. Um,

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I'm going to take you through the
document uh and talk to you about the

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finance of the project, but I would be
remiss if I didn't sort of underscore

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the effort and what to get us from here
to there. Clearly, there was a vision 20

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years ago or so about a redevelopment
plan that just never took off, right? It

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just never happened. Didn't have legs.
Nothing really. There was not a

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redevelopment project, I think, ever
undertaken under that original plan. the

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governing body
um with their planner and the

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professional team started to okay well
that didn't work let's come up with a

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new redevelopment plan and we went down
a process of identifying four areas in

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town where we felt redevelopment could
actually happen uh tracks A B C and D

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and we picked those very strategically
based upon what those projects where we

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think we had the highest likelihood of
succeeding track C that we're talking

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about we identified
in part because we owned some of the

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property which we thought was going to
be an important component. Um and in

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initially and we envisioned back in the
day as a much smaller project than we

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actually ended up with today um to our
benefit. Um we en envisioned a smaller

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project because we were trying to sort
of limited the the number of properties

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that would have to be involved in the
private properties that make up this

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project that were not the public
project. So we went down the path. We

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went through an RFP process which was
very robust. We received several

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proposals. We have analyzed those
proposals and after that process we

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selected uh garden homes. Now garden
home. So garden home wasn't just sort of

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selected uh at will. They competed
through a process. They made a

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compelling argument and at the time they
had already decided that they believe in

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uh island park that they were going to
start buying properties in this area. So

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they made a proposal that said, "We want
to do this project." Oh, by the way, we

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00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:48,640
started to acquire land in the property
and we just completed a project with you

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on River Road and we think we did a good
job. We hope you did, too. And we did.

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So, we selected them after this process.
And that process included, as I'll

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describe to you a little bit, things
like what's the purchase price going to

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be for the land? What's the project
going to look like? We did that, you

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know, after about six or seven months of
analysis as uh Terry described to you

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and then since then we've been working
on the project. Why has it taken us so

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long? So along the way, one of the
things Gardens Home has been doing which

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is incredibly beneficial is they've been
acquiring the land and and third party

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00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:25,440
transactions slowly acquiring all the
parcels that make up this project. Why

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00:26:23,679 --> 00:26:29,360
is that important for the borrow?
Because without their efforts to acquire

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00:26:27,679 --> 00:26:32,559
this property in third party
transactions, we would have to be more

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00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:36,400
aggressive about making that happen. So
they took the yman's job of today

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00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:40,400
acquiring all those properties which
unless we sign agreement with them,

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00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:44,000
they're at risk now for owning all that
land without the ability to do a

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00:26:42,159 --> 00:26:48,559
redevelopment project until they sign a
redevelopment agreement with them. So

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00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:54,400
they exhibited a significant amount of
faith and trust in both us as a

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00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,520
cooperative partner and in themselves as
proving to us that they would be a good

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partner and we could come to an
agreement. So through that process we

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had a couple of iterations of our
redevelopment uh plan was amended as

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00:27:03,679 --> 00:27:09,679
they would suggest as we sort of
expected to our planner. We think we

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00:27:07,919 --> 00:27:13,919
should do something different. We would
do something different. We expanded the

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00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:19,520
area. We uh made some bulk standard
changes. all as a enter of to a process

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00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:23,840
that would get us to today which we
believe is a much better process and

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00:27:21,679 --> 00:27:28,480
project than we began with when we first
started this. It was smaller. but didn't

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control the land to today where they now
own all of the land having worked with

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00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:38,320
every single uh private property owner
reached third party uh arms link

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00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:43,279
transactions including with our good
neighbor their good neighbor and uh our

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00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:47,440
the church we who's been very
cooperative with us frankly extremely

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00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:53,200
helpful through the process so this sort
of effort sort of coalesed to today so

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00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:56,640
that project that you've seen is is a
couple years in the making and along the

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00:27:54,880 --> 00:28:01,760
way we did have a community meeting so
that the community was sort of kept in

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00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:07,200
at breast along the process but it took
a while but you know like anything

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00:28:04,159 --> 00:28:11,039
that's hard and difficult u it it's
worth it it's really worth it we're

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00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:15,840
really thrilled to sort of describe the
project to you and as you as I present

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00:28:13,919 --> 00:28:22,799
to the planning board I'm I'm confident
that the public will participate in that

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00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:26,480
process and also uh in uh be proud and
happy with the result of this effort So

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00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:32,240
the redevelopment agreement. So one of
the things about redevelopment that

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00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:37,600
doesn't exist in normal zoning is we uh
we get to negotiate with the redeveloper

356
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:43,039
certain things that we could not do
under the municipal land use law, things

357
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:48,159
like uh selling them property, things
like uh community space, uh particular

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00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:50,960
uh other particular requirements that
I'm going to walk through with you

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00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:55,440
today. So you but for being
redevelopment, none of these things

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00:28:53,200 --> 00:29:02,399
could happen. Well, we so we now have
this zoning, this redevelopment plan

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that describes the the the contours of
the project, the bulk standards that now

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00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:10,240
is the zoning for this process. That
agreement, that plan into it that

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00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,520
requirement that they have to sign a
redevelopment agreement with us before

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00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:17,520
they can go to the plan board. So,
that's the step we're at. We've

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00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:20,559
negotiated a redevelopment agreement.
Then I'm going to walk you through the

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00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:23,200
terms and we're going to post it online
and they're going to take action in our

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00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:29,440
next meeting. So people will have heard
about it today. They will have read it

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00:29:25,679 --> 00:29:33,520
um online and then before we even have a
vote. So there'll be plenty of time

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tonight in your leisure when you watch
this video and or you read a

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00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:42,080
redevelopment agreement to then be
available to uh for when you actually

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00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:45,760
take a vote. Um so under the
redevelopment law, we had this

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00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:51,760
opportunity to negotiate with garden
homes for a number of things to make

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this project uh better than um than it
would have other frankly under the mun

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language.
So um this is sort of a summary of some

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00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,640
of the critical terms that you're going
to see in the redevelopment agreement.

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00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:09,919
The redevelopment agreement is hundreds
of pages with the the exhibits attached.

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00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:15,200
Um so the purchase price is1 million uh
$1.5 million. When we went through the

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competitive process, a number of the
developers proposed to buy our land from

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00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:26,640
us to do track city and the purchase
prices from those proposals ranged from

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00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:32,320
400,000. Eric doesn't know this, he
knows it now. $400,000

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00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:37,760
to uh $1.2
million. So uh Brett in his proposal

382
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:42,720
said, "I'll pay you between 1.2 2 1.5
and as of the last minute he was still

383
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:48,880
very comfortable with 1.2 um but he's
paying 1.5 um sort of an evidence of

384
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:53,840
their willingness to uh negotiate harder
than come to agreement. So this purchase

385
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:57,919
price at the end of the day was the most
that anyone offered to buy our land

386
00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:03,360
through the competitive process and it
was the most that uh garden homes had

387
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:07,440
said they would pay uh back when we did
the process. So, we feel really good

388
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,720
about this purchase price. This $1.5
million, by the way. I don't know how

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00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:16,480
we're going to purchase it, but it but
it could if we decide to help us fund

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00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:22,799
the uh uh Pharaoh Plaza that's being
that showed you pictures of it's 134

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00:31:20,559 --> 00:31:27,520
residential units. Um, this is going to
be a luxury project. Um, it's going to

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00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:31,360
have some incredible amenities baked
into it. If you ever go see, you can go

393
00:31:30,159 --> 00:31:34,399
see some of the other Garden Homes
projects through the state of New

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00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:40,720
Jersey. They're They're a quality
developer with just quality projects.

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00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:44,799
Um, of the 134 15% so 20 are going to be
affordable housing and we afford to

396
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:50,399
house. So 20 of those will be the
affordable housing projects. Um, if you

397
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:54,880
do the math 15% is 20.1,
right? So how do you do 0.1 unit? Well,

398
00:31:53,279 --> 00:31:58,480
the way you do that is you come to an
agreement. I'll describe it to you

399
00:31:56,559 --> 00:32:02,159
later. Under the law, there's a
calculation for what a unit would cost

400
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,200
and they can make a payment. So for the
0.1, they're going to make a payment

401
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:11,039
into our affordable housing trust fund
so that they satisfy the full 20.1 or

402
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:14,320
the responsibilities on 134 units. But
there's, as Terry described you, there's

403
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:17,919
going to be 20 parking spaces. So we're
going to deed them. We're going to sell

404
00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:21,519
them all of our land. So they're going
to pay for all of our land at the 1.5

405
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:28,000
million, but then they're gonna
>> So it's 40 40

406
00:32:23,679 --> 00:32:33,120
» 40. I'm sorry. Sorry.
Um, thank you. Uh, so by the way, jump

407
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:41,440
in everybody whenever I if I get it
wrong, I can use I can use all the help.

408
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:50,720
Um, so um
the 40 parking space um and uh um

409
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:53,840
sorry and then our 6,000 square feet.
Oh, I know. So they're going to sell us

410
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,720
all the land, right? We're going to get
entire all the property is going to be

411
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,559
sold from our property, sold to them
$1.5 million. Um, in exchange though,

412
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,519
they're going to give us back the
easement in perpetuity so we can occupy

413
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:11,600
for the public can occupy those 40
spaces. So while we are selling them all

414
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:17,120
of our land, 40 spaces will remain ours
through a easement on the property. So

415
00:33:14,159 --> 00:33:20,159
we will retain through the easement the
right for the public to park and that's

416
00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:24,240
been that was a really important
component of it partly because of our

417
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:27,440
neighbor who's uh people use that the
public uses it. Um so we wanted to

418
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:32,720
maintain that we continue to have
availability for the public for those

419
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:35,600
spaces. Um so in the agreement you're
going to see we've sort of described

420
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,080
some of the core responsibilities. An
agreement is a partnership. It's it's

421
00:33:37,679 --> 00:33:43,679
public part public private partnership.
So the developer is going to have the

422
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:47,919
obl obligation to acquire the required
properties. He's done it all now um as

423
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:52,320
recently as this summer completed that
process. He's got to get his approvals.

424
00:33:49,919 --> 00:33:55,679
He's got to arrange his financing. Uh
he's going to have to construct all the

425
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:58,159
public improvements, the infrastructure.
He's going to have to deliver our

426
00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:02,399
affordable housing which will come with
a deed restrictions so they stay

427
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:07,600
affordable for 40 years. Um he's going
to have to maintain the site and he

428
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:12,800
continues to fund the bar. So uh through
this process, all of the work that the

429
00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:16,560
burrows had to spend money on to have
our our professionals do not unlike what

430
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:20,320
you see at a landlord has been paid
through an escro from for for from for

431
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:25,440
from Garden Homes and Brett's company.
So the w my time here today for example

432
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:30,399
they're they're paying not the taxpayers
they're paying they're paying the the

433
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:33,440
free um our job here is to um we're
going to participate in the process.

434
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:37,040
You'll see in agreement there's certain
specific things that we're going to have

435
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:41,280
to do. For example uh we're going to
move the transom um that's currently

436
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:45,119
they've agreed to relocate it for us. we
have to tell them where um so we have

437
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:51,200
some sort of limited we got to cooperate
help them along participate in progress

438
00:34:47,359 --> 00:34:54,960
meetings inspect it as appropriate um if
they need an extension of time we have

439
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:58,320
to consider it again determine where the
pavilion relocation will go we haven't

440
00:34:56,879 --> 00:35:02,960
sorted that out they've agreed to put it
where we tell them um and then you know

441
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:07,440
there's going to be there's schedules
that require government approvals

442
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:12,480
project closing when you get occupancy
when it gets completion it's a very

443
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,960
regulated
uh process that's going to you know

444
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:22,640
could take us through the next year or
year and a half to get to the opening of

445
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:26,960
the facility.
So the burough the purchase price is $

446
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,560
1.5 million. you'll see on one of our
our agenda coming up uh not this meeting

447
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,839
but the next meeting they'll be
authorizing the purchase of sale

448
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:41,599
agreement for the $1.5 million um with a
closing uh so within 14 days of the

449
00:35:39,119 --> 00:35:46,480
receipt of the government approvals um
and then it remains subject to certain

450
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:52,079
conferences. This uh closing date is a
very important timing for us. We do not

451
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:56,640
want to release our property to them
until the last minute when we sure

452
00:35:53,839 --> 00:36:01,119
they're ready to get started building um
for a number of reasons. Uh we just

453
00:35:59,359 --> 00:36:05,599
don't want to be in a situation where
they acquire a property for $1.5 million

454
00:36:03,839 --> 00:36:09,520
and nothing happens, right? So one of
the concerns whenever you're in the

455
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:12,720
redevelopment context is you sell your
property and you get an Asbury Park. How

456
00:36:11,359 --> 00:36:16,880
many years ago already you have this
monolith gets half built never gets

457
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:20,480
completed. So in our documents, there's
also this reverber clause. And the

458
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:25,280
reverter clause says that if the
developer acquires our property and

459
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,560
doesn't commence construction or fails
to complete the construction, we can

460
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:31,760
take our property back under certain
with certain conditions. We have to make

461
00:36:29,839 --> 00:36:36,320
sure the lender gets paid their money.
But at the end of the day, it's designed

462
00:36:33,599 --> 00:36:40,079
to make sure that we don't expect this,
but if something were to happen with our

463
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:45,359
pro with this project, we want to be
able to take our property back and and

464
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:49,599
try again. Um, again, no expectation
that would happen. Um, Brett's company

465
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,720
wouldn't let that happen. I can't
imagine if they ever had, honestly, they

466
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:56,880
don't know where um, the banks wouldn't
let it happen. But, but because it's

467
00:36:55,200 --> 00:37:01,200
public property, it's we have a
fiduciary responsibility to the public,

468
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:05,520
we insist on a reverter claw clause in
the deed that indicates if if something

469
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:10,320
fails along the way, we're going to take
our property back again. Never expected

470
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:14,000
to have to do that.
So we we getting back to the

471
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:17,440
redevelopment world versus the useful
land use law. This is the things that we

472
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:21,920
negotiate into the unit that we couldn't
have done but for redevelopment. So we

473
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:25,440
have our uh 3,000 square feet of indoor
community space. There's going to be a

474
00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:28,480
lease. Everybody's also going to approve
that. That lease is that they're going

475
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:32,079
to lease they're going to build out our
facility for us and they're going to

476
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:37,359
lease it to us for a dollar. It's going
to be for 50 years with 25 year renewal.

477
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:41,440
So effectively a lease, you know, for
very long before any of us are still in

478
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,880
this in this room or still around. Um,
so that's a that's a long-term lease.

479
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,400
And then there's this outdoor space
which is really cool. And as Terry

480
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:53,520
described it, it's going it's being
designed so that you can open the doors

481
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:58,000
uh to have access to the indoor and the
outdoor space at the same time. Sort of

482
00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:01,200
doubling the space for an event. uh
because the outdoor space is covered and

483
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,200
then the indoor space and it will be
it's going to turn out to be a really

484
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:10,000
cool opportunity for the uh for the
municipality to uh figure out how to use

485
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:14,960
that space and that's ours you know
that's ours to use for the next hundred

486
00:38:11,839 --> 00:38:19,839
years and it's ours to program and to
make the best of use of and you know

487
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:22,560
that's money that Brett is forgoing
right he could have leased this to

488
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:26,560
somebody else he could have had a retail
tenant in this project increase his

489
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:30,160
revenues but as part of our negotiations
and our community benefits It's he's

490
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:35,200
turning over those square feet again
finished for us so that we can enjoy for

491
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:38,960
uh for the community for the public uh
the 40 spaces you're aware of and then

492
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:44,000
there we have these EV ready spaces and
the public spaces u that they're also

493
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:48,800
giving. So summarizing community outdoor
space um also this pedestrian connection

494
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:54,560
that Terry described and sort of showed
to you. Uh we we're pretty excited about

495
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,119
that opportunity because we see it if
you see the pictures and when you I

496
00:38:55,839 --> 00:39:02,160
think when it's completed you'll see
that it's it's really sort of this cool

497
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:06,320
entryway into the into the garage. So,
not into a necessarily exciting, sexy

498
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:10,880
place, but into the garage, but it has
the opportunity to have some really uh

499
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:15,200
interesting artwork that they've agreed
to light and work with us to have it be

500
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:18,720
sort of a centerpiece to the building as
as you will sort of walk as you want to

501
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,760
if you want to pass through the middle
of the building to go all the way

502
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:26,560
through the public parking to the back.
So, it's going to be sort of a pretty

503
00:39:23,359 --> 00:39:31,280
cool um uh public space in the sense
that open. we're going to program with

504
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:37,599
art in some other in a way to make it
sort somewhat of a meaningful uh uh

505
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:42,079
centerpiece for Highland Park. And it
really uh when you see the design, it's

506
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:45,520
very cool the way it um it's buried next
to these town halls, right? So along

507
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:50,480
their project, I don't know if we gave
it enough credence, but they they're

508
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:54,960
doing these uh walkups.
So, so it's not your typical throw up a

509
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:59,280
big multif family residential project.
It has these this series of walkups that

510
00:39:57,359 --> 00:40:02,800
then lead into the restaurant on the
corner which is like this beautiful

511
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:07,119
anchor and then in the other direction
uh more retail and and in fact near the

512
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:11,440
end they added additional lot with some
more retail again how the project

513
00:40:08,720 --> 00:40:14,960
evolved in a way where every every step
of the way we sort of added something

514
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:19,280
even more interesting again like this
last that was a addition that I think

515
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:25,280
was in the last couple months that last
piece of retail on the corner which you

516
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:31,680
know we were very happy about. So, um,
that's the community benefits part. Oh,

517
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:37,440
and yeah, oh, the the again the pavilion
is going to get relocated.

518
00:40:33,839 --> 00:40:42,800
Um, so I know Highland Park, I know your
council are particularly uh interested

519
00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:48,160
in um some of the things that are on
this slide. They were definitely uh very

520
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:52,800
by the way this mayor this governing
body are were so in the weeds on this

521
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:56,800
process um compared to you know you were
blessed to have a governing body that

522
00:40:54,560 --> 00:41:00,319
spends the time energy ask the hard
questions of our professional

523
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:04,160
professionals challenges us to do a
better job to do better on our

524
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:09,119
negotiations. Um but this is a slide
where they were particularly interested

525
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:13,119
and that not not every client of mine is
particularly interested in. So they were

526
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:17,280
very interested in sustainable design,
very interested in EV charging, very

527
00:41:15,359 --> 00:41:22,240
interested in universal design and very
interested in making sure that this was

528
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:26,560
an 100% electric building. So in the in
the redevelopment agreement, it calls

529
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:32,240
out that um there's not going to be gas
uh stoves for example. Um this is going

530
00:41:29,839 --> 00:41:35,839
to be this is sustainable. So these are
some of the things that are either in

531
00:41:34,079 --> 00:41:39,119
the redevelopment plan that uh our
planner Chris was careful to put in and

532
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,280
or we've included them in the
redevelopment agreement but things that

533
00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:48,640
are that are uh designed to make this
sustainable uh to rely on electricity

534
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:53,520
instead of natural gas. Um and then to
adopt you know all the sort of things

535
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:58,160
that are listed there that ADA
accessible everything is sort of laid

536
00:41:55,359 --> 00:42:03,359
out in that in that chart. Um again some
of the sort of things are not that

537
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:08,160
financial maybe not as um as interesting
as community space but very important to

538
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:14,800
this to this mayor of this governing
body as we did the negotiations.

539
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:18,000
Uh also uh Highland Park I know is
particularly interested in its

540
00:42:15,839 --> 00:42:22,960
streetscape. Right. So we you have a
very robust um downtown uh management

541
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:27,520
commission. You have a very robust
street commission. Um and uh I know

542
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:31,200
Terry spends a lot of time interacting
with them and directing the team uh to

543
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:34,560
make sure that all those kinds of issues
are being addressed. Are we addressing

544
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:37,680
the interests of the downtown
commandment commission? Are we

545
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:42,640
addressing and the special improvement
district? Are we addressing the concerns

546
00:42:39,359 --> 00:42:48,000
of the U treat commission? So all again
also u sort of pet head pet issues for

547
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:52,960
the governing body. We heard a lot from
the governing body about the importance

548
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:57,680
of uh streetscape. Uh and then the last
one's over here. Um in our redevelopment

549
00:42:55,040 --> 00:43:03,520
agreement, we asked the redeveloper to
engage in good faith efforts to try and

550
00:43:00,319 --> 00:43:07,040
hire local uh contractors, local
Highland Park residents. Um and there's

551
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,640
you when you'll see the re
redevelopment, it'll describe on

552
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:14,640
describe how they're going to go about
that do that. I I have no doubt they're

553
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:18,400
going to make good faith efforts to uh
try and make that happen. There are

554
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,640
legal limitations on what you can ask
them require them to do or not. Um but

555
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:26,800
they were they were more than happy to
you know make these efforts and do all

556
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:31,599
the things necessary to try and find uh
local island park residents that um can

557
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:37,040
you know their businesses that could
benefit from this redevelopment project

558
00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:42,079
and the construction of it
affordable housing again a very

559
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:49,200
important uh component uh in Highland
Park uh this project will provide the

560
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:53,599
15% affordable housing uh the the law on
affordable housing housing is dictated

561
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:57,760
by the state of New Jersey. So, this is
the breakdown. They're going to have

562
00:43:55,119 --> 00:44:01,680
these these categories uh and these
bedroom counts which tie back to the

563
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:06,400
state New Jersey requirements that they
will include. They'll we're going to put

564
00:44:03,839 --> 00:44:11,200
on their property. So, in the deed,
there'll be another deed restriction

565
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:14,400
that says that this this uh affordable
housing requirements will continue for

566
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:19,440
the next 40 years. In the past, it's
been 30 years. Now, it's 40 years. Um,

567
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:24,720
so, uh, under the current law, we we
held them to the 40-year requirement.

568
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:30,720
Um, and so, so these these affordable,
uh, units and these numbers, um, will be

569
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:34,880
available, uh, in this budget. So
beating the 15% and continuing to

570
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:40,880
continuing to meet our obligation to
fair housing the New Jersey Constitution

571
00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:46,560
and then morally to the uh people that
are required for housing in

572
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:52,160
um and then by I talked to you about
that point one it's worth $22,291

573
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:56,160
so that's our fraction uh can we get
another question? Yeah, sure. I'll ask.

574
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,960
I just want to remember that.
>> I want to ask a question on that slide.

575
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:05,280
So, as long as we can come back,
>> I will come back to slide. Yeah.

576
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:09,680
» All right. So, because this is not your
typical land use law, we're very

577
00:45:07,359 --> 00:45:14,079
involved in the process. So, baked into
the redevelopment agreement, are not a

578
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:18,880
lot of items that um some of them are
typical in any construction project. Uh

579
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:22,800
but we also put them into our contract.
uh things like there'll be the

580
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:26,240
pre-construction meeting where Garnomes
meets with our professional team so

581
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:30,319
everyone is on the same page when the
construction begins. Uh pedestrian

582
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:34,319
safety. So all this project it's going
to be an enormous project going to be

583
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:38,720
the largest ever. It's as you'll see
later it's a 70 plus million dollar

584
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:43,200
investment in our community. Um but we
want to make sure the pedestrian is

585
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:45,599
safe. Uh where the con construction and
parking is going to have to be parked.

586
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:50,880
So where are the people that are working
on site going to going to be? where's

587
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:54,160
the layown going to happen? Um all these
sort of maintenance things that have to

588
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:59,200
happen along the way and after they're
completed the project. Um and then um we

589
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:04,720
do have in the agreement to our neighbor
again. U we call that a specific

590
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:07,839
requirement that we um we have to sit
down and make sure that we have an

591
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:12,960
adequate solution to the solid waste
disposal that currently occurs in the

592
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:16,480
parking lot u for the church. Um so
that's actually baked into the agreement

593
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:21,119
that we reached uh reached in a a
consensus on how best to make that

594
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:29,599
happen. Um that satisfies the church and
the burrow in the development.

595
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:35,680
So the financial analysis so um we we
understood um that uh a project like

596
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:42,800
this may require a payment of little
taxes. Uh but you don't really decide

597
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:47,760
that or come to that conclusion until
you go through a robust process of

598
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:54,640
analyzing the developers cost. So that
process begins by garden homes providing

599
00:46:50,960 --> 00:47:01,119
us the burrow with all of their
financial proforms, financial analysis,

600
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:05,359
construction cost, anticipated rents, um
their uh how they're going to finance

601
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:09,839
the project, what their operating
expenses are going to be when they

602
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:15,119
finally open the project, a fully baked
um uh financial analysis that we then

603
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:18,160
turn over to our financial consultant,
Beacon Planning, who has done this

604
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:24,560
throughout the state of New Jersey and
it is for us here to vet their numbers

605
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:29,040
and that begins a negotiation about what
will be the appropriate pilot for this

606
00:47:26,720 --> 00:47:35,359
project. And that process happened um
and as a result of that process our

607
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:39,200
consultants um and garden homes and
their lawyers and myself came to an

608
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:44,480
agreement about what we think would be
the appropriate payment in little taxes

609
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:48,560
for this project. The magic of the
payment of those taxes. How do you kind

610
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:55,119
of get to that number? It's it's math,
but it's also somewhat art. The goal is

611
00:47:51,200 --> 00:48:00,240
to reach a number that we believe is
sufficient to allow them to succeed at

612
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:04,319
their project, but not so much that they
would get a windfall from their project.

613
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:09,280
And we did have a lot of history already
because we know um from what happened in

614
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:12,720
the river road at least at some level
lots of their numbers because the river

615
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:16,640
road project has a pilot and it's
already been opened and operating and

616
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:22,160
we've received audits on that project.
So we we've sort of begun to understand

617
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:27,839
um the best you know what the economics
are and able to invent the Garn's

618
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:32,640
numbers and and to be fair to Garn um
unlike many other developers they came

619
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:39,280
in what we thought were very fair
numbers. didn't try to show up with a

620
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:43,440
bunch of incredibly low rents that that
demonstrate they're going to lose money

621
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:47,839
or extraordinarily high operating costs
that show they're going to lose your out

622
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:53,200
of whack construction costs. Um they
they showed off with a what we thought

623
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:56,640
was a fair representation. We had some
negotiations, some conversations. We

624
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:02,319
didn't agree with everything they said,
but I think they sort of per usual with

625
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:07,440
working with them. um they didn't try
to, you know, start somewhere in left

626
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:14,640
field and, you know, have to have us
come to a close. We got we got to a a

627
00:49:10,319 --> 00:49:18,480
close relatively fast. Um so the the a
so some of the some of the statistics

628
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:22,880
that go into this analysis. So the uh
there's going to be again 114 market

629
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:26,400
units, 20 affordable. The average rental
side is about 1,300

630
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:30,880
square feet. Obviously less for the
studios, more for two and three

631
00:49:28,720 --> 00:49:35,520
bedrooms. and their projected rent rent
rent is about $5,500,000

632
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:40,559
and that takes into consideration the
rents on the on the various units the

633
00:49:38,559 --> 00:49:47,400
affordable housing rents based on on the
UAC numbers um so they're protected uh

634
00:49:48,319 --> 00:49:55,040
uh and then they have their retail rents
so they do have these retail spaces ours

635
00:49:52,800 --> 00:50:00,319
is free to us but the other spaces we
projected that they would have about

636
00:49:56,720 --> 00:50:06,640
$420,000 of uh retail on the retail
spaces and that assumed an NOI of 5% um

637
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:12,480
then we came to an NOI which I'll walk
you through and we assume about a 5%

638
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:17,920
vacancy um and we assume some prevailing
2026 ret real estate taxes we do do an

639
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:22,000
analysis can you just say what NOA oh
I'm sorry net the net operating income

640
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:26,960
so in our what I'll get to you next is
net operating income in our analysis

641
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:33,839
it's net operating income after taxes or
pilot so NOI is uh total revenues less

642
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:39,200
expenses and in our in our NOI would
also subtract the the annual service

643
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:44,559
charge andor the rent um as appropriate
in the analysis and again the affordable

644
00:50:41,839 --> 00:50:50,000
housing the rents we use the so the the
rents or the affordable units is

645
00:50:46,079 --> 00:50:53,680
dictated by law state law um based upon
what the affordability of the whatever

646
00:50:52,319 --> 00:50:56,920
your income limitations are on the
number of

647
00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:07,200
So, uh, the project is slated to be 74
almost $75 million. So, this is going to

648
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:12,079
be a $75 million investment in Highland
Park. I don't think we've seen a $75

649
00:51:09,359 --> 00:51:17,280
million investment by a single project
in quite some time, maybe a decade. Um,

650
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:22,880
the estimated cost for that project is
about $239 per square foot. Um, and the

651
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:27,040
estimated cost per residential unit is
$557,500.

652
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:32,640
Uh that's the that's the cost to
construct. Um if we were doing

653
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:37,040
conventional taxes um they would have
and we did the again the total gross

654
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:43,839
income is the 5675. You back out the
operating expenses um and the taxes they

655
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:48,880
end up with about a 3,55,000 net
operating income after taxes. Um and

656
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:51,680
then but if you did the 10% annual
service charges which is what we're

657
00:51:50,319 --> 00:51:57,920
recommending for the borrow for the
initial uh period it's it goes up over

658
00:51:54,480 --> 00:52:03,760
time um they end up with a higher uh net
operating. So the pilot clearly has an

659
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:07,599
economic benefit to their project right
they're going to enjoy from going from

660
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:12,800
three million to almost four million. So
it's there's roughly a million dollar

661
00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:20,319
economic benefit to them uh to have to
pay the annual service charge versus the

662
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:23,839
taxes. So clearly a value to them. Why
uh why does that make sense to us? And

663
00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:30,160
it makes sense to us because when we do
the analysis it is clear that without

664
00:52:27,119 --> 00:52:36,400
the pilot they would effectively build a
project that would be worth more less

665
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:41,680
when completed than it costs to build
it. So, and we run various cap rates to

666
00:52:39,359 --> 00:52:47,440
figure out what that analysis will be.
But, as you can imagine, if I'm going to

667
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:53,520
build a project for $74 million, and
when I'm done building my project, it's

668
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:58,160
worth $60 million, nobody makes that
investment in the project. So our goal

669
00:52:55,839 --> 00:53:03,760
working with our financial advisor was
to determine what's the right level of

670
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:10,880
pilot um that we would give them where
the value once built stabilized is more

671
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:15,760
than the cost to build. Again I wouldn't
spend none of us would spend $7 million

672
00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:20,400
$7 million to buy something that's then
worth 50 million once we borrow. Um so

673
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:27,040
same analysis we go through in this
process. Um so um

674
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:32,559
at the end of the day well we we stress
test the uh con conventional taxes we

675
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:38,400
stress test the pilot um and we
concluded that now we our financial

676
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:44,400
adviser um that um using a six and a
half terminal cap at a 10-year we

677
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:49,680
calculated the 10-year unleveraged irr
we get to a 4.25%.

678
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:55,200
So what that is is if you assume
uh a fully uh stabilized asset with the

679
00:53:52,880 --> 00:54:02,400
revenues we projected over 10 years and
then they sold it in the 11th year um at

680
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:08,960
a 6 and a.5% cap they would enjoy a 4.25
5% internal rate of return um at 15

681
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:14,000
years it will be 5.33%
the expected range um for an investment

682
00:54:11,839 --> 00:54:19,599
of this type is somewhere between five
and a half to 7%. Um, so even at the

683
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:24,480
15-year IRRa, they don't quite get to
the number. That demonstrates um the

684
00:54:22,319 --> 00:54:30,079
need for the pilot because this is this
is using the the pilot numbers. Um,

685
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:37,200
I think we benefit in part because
Garden Homes is a legacy builder and

686
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:41,040
holder. This is a family business. They
buy their assets, they hold their

687
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:45,599
assets, they're patient. Um they are not
a buy and flip company which is also

688
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:51,440
part of the reason we wanted to hire
them is their uh their business model um

689
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:56,640
and will correct me on anything I might
have said here is to own assets not to

690
00:54:54,960 --> 00:55:01,839
build assets and flip assets which is
different than some other

691
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:07,520
uh so the key takeaways on the financial
analysis again these are the residential

692
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:12,319
units you find unrestricted the the
estimate on the value the cost uh the

693
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:18,880
various returns at the end of the day
that um I'll allow us to recommend. So

694
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:25,920
that what we basically concluded that
the 10% uh annual service charge um this

695
00:55:23,599 --> 00:55:32,800
would be the equivalent of a with a 5%
cap rate um which is slightly below

696
00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:36,800
market again um I know garden homes uh
initially said to us they would like to

697
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:41,440
do less than 10% to be honest with you
um because they probably did the same

698
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:44,559
math we did um that would have required
us to do bonds and a whole another

699
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:48,079
process so we said look we're just not
going to do We're not going to go down

700
00:55:45,839 --> 00:55:52,079
that path. And the 10% that I'm talking
to you about, this also ratchets up over

701
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:56,960
time. So that's a that's an initial
number. And over time, over the 30

702
00:55:53,839 --> 00:56:02,079
years, that percent goes up as does
their stage increases that tie into a so

703
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:07,040
by the end of the last several years,
the pilot begins looking like 80% of the

704
00:56:04,799 --> 00:56:10,720
otherwise full taxes in now in those
years. So this is a pilot that ramps up

705
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:13,599
with the intention that when they call
off the pilot, now they're paying full

706
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:18,079
taxes. And by the time you get to the
last several years of the pilot um again

707
00:56:16,079 --> 00:56:22,799
starts to also begin to look a lot like
taxes% mean that's what they start

708
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,760
paying in taxes.
>> They pay 10% of the annual gross

709
00:56:24,319 --> 00:56:31,440
revenue. So maybe I wasn't clear about
that. So you take the the simplicity of

710
00:56:28,319 --> 00:56:36,319
the analysis is they add up every dollar
they receive and then they pay us 10% of

711
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:39,280
that number and then they audit it every
year and if there and then there's a

712
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:42,720
true up if it's not right from year
because they obviously pay taxes and has

713
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:47,119
to true up so
>> for 30 years

714
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:50,640
» but eventually it goes up to 11 12 and I
think by the last years it's 15.

715
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:53,280
» Are you going to questions or are you
taking questions?

716
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:58,000
» I'm almost done. This is it and then
I'll jump to questions. Um so um what's

717
00:56:56,240 --> 00:57:02,400
next? So I'll give you the what's next
and we'll come we'll continue with that

718
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:07,200
question. So um with the redevelopment
agreement we are anticipating

719
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:10,960
considering that at our next governing
body meeting and we're going to post it

720
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:15,599
online um so that people have time to
read it. The financial agreement which

721
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:20,000
is a pilot analysis we'll we'll follow
that. Um it's going to be at the

722
00:57:17,359 --> 00:57:25,200
self-split meeting um is the current
expectations. So that and that's a two

723
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:29,920
meeting endeavor. was an introduction,
notice, public hearing, adoption. So,

724
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:33,520
it's two plus meetings. Uh the purchase
sale agreement also going to be two

725
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:38,720
meetings. You generally understand the
terms of that. Um it's 1.5 million bucks

726
00:57:35,839 --> 00:57:43,920
with the reverter clause and affordable
housing restrictions. Um then they have

727
00:57:41,839 --> 00:57:48,240
uh to get all their government approval.
So, they got to get their sitement

728
00:57:45,119 --> 00:57:52,799
approval, their TWWA. Um I think maybe
there's a county approval. And then we

729
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:56,720
have the property closing. Um it says
closing for now they have it's just hard

730
00:57:54,319 --> 00:57:59,760
closing again their lender commitment
and financing closed construction

731
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:05,680
commences and they expect it to be about
a two-year not construction. Um so you

732
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:11,359
know you add it all up they they're
opening in called 30 months

733
00:58:09,839 --> 00:58:14,480
and that's my question and you want me
to go back to slide

734
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:17,480
» affordable housing.
>> Yeah.

735
00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:22,480
» You don't have to go just for me
whatever your model is for taking

736
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:29,000
questions. I think if we're taking
questions, we'd ask microphone so

737
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,000
everybody else can hear you.

738
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:41,599
» Seth Coell, one of the pastors at the
Reformed Church of Highland Park and um

739
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:44,400
yeah, thanks for this presentation. Um I
have a bunch of questions and I'm not

740
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:48,160
sure which ones are for you and which
ones are are for others, but I'll start

741
00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:51,839
with the affordable housing slide. Um,
I'm not thrilled with the breakdown of

742
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:56,160
very low, low, and moderate because I
understand those things. Um, but one

743
00:58:54,480 --> 00:59:01,760
thing that would be really nice is if
you keep this, if the moderate,

744
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:05,839
especially large ones, you'd be willing
to take folks on vouchers. Um, the

745
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:09,599
biggest problem we have in this state
isn't that there's not enough housing,

746
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:13,520
it's that we don't have enough landlords
willing to take people who have vouchers

747
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:18,240
that are actually falling do dollars
wise within moderate gear. um you

748
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:23,680
wouldn't lose any money, but you're
willing to take a family that um that

749
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:27,920
qualifies for a voucher and has every
landlord looking negatively on them

750
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:32,400
because they qualify for a voucher. So,
that that is a special thing that is

751
00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:35,520
important to us and that I think would
help diversify who's able to live in our

752
00:59:34,319 --> 00:59:41,680
town and who can live in your building
and it won't hurt you financially and it

753
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:45,200
would gain some real bones to to kind of
how we feel about um a project like

754
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:51,359
this.
I can answer that.

755
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:55,920
» Yeah. And so the affordable housing is
>> I think the microphone question.

756
00:59:54,319 --> 00:59:58,160
» Yeah. The the affordable
>> No, no, no. I want viewers at home to

757
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:02,799
hear it as well.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the uh the

758
01:00:00,559 --> 01:00:09,280
affordable components handled by a third
party. We currently take vouchers

759
01:00:06,079 --> 01:00:14,079
through it's you know whoever qualifies
in working with the third party

760
01:00:11,119 --> 01:00:18,720
administrator. they handle like who's
qualified. We don't get in the business

761
01:00:16,319 --> 01:00:23,200
of like who's disqualified. So I think
currently as far as I understand our

762
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:28,319
portfolio if someone working with a
third party has a voucher who's

763
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:33,680
qualified, you know, we're not opposed
to that. So it's it's kind of out of our

764
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:38,720
hands. It's more they they do the
certification qualifications and uh and

765
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:44,880
then it comes to us and we just
basically show show the units. um with

766
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:48,000
the assumption that certification is
done by a third party. So

767
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:52,319
» yeah,
>> take a hard look at that.

768
01:00:49,440 --> 01:00:55,440
» I would say that's not a satisfactory
answer from me. I appreciate that's what

769
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:59,440
it is. I'd like to know more about the
third party group that's dealing with it

770
01:00:57,359 --> 01:01:03,920
and ask them specifically about their
willingness to take people on batteries

771
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:08,160
and it could be a real win for you to
kind of do that in a public way. that

772
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:13,680
could help us with other large important
developers in the state to see somebody

773
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:18,240
stand up um in this way and say yes when
I have available units that are at these

774
01:01:15,839 --> 01:01:23,040
rates I'll take vouchers. So I I just
think that's like an easy win um for

775
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:27,200
Highland Park and for for this project
that look really good and hopefully your

776
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:31,440
your third party person on that. Second
thing I ask you about um will this

777
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:37,599
project be subject to the same limits on
how much rent can be raised every year?

778
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:40,079
Um like is it 3.65 or something like
that?

779
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:45,839
» You mean for the um for the
>> rents? For rents not not affordable just

780
01:01:42,799 --> 01:01:49,440
general overall rents 134 is the rent
control

781
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:53,280
under New Jersey law projects are not
sub.

782
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:57,760
» No no every every rent in this town is
subject to a limit that you can raise

783
01:01:55,359 --> 01:02:01,839
rent every month. I've owned projects
places in this town and every every

784
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:06,640
landlord has this. So
>> that that under New Jersey law, new uh

785
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:09,839
rental projects are exempt from rent,
local rent.

786
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:15,760
» Once it's up and running and you've
charged 3,000 a month for rent or 3,400,

787
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:21,119
which I'm calculating for some of these
units, can you in one year jump at 7% if

788
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:25,680
you want or is the limit like everybody
else that it's a 3% kind of increase per

789
01:02:23,599 --> 01:02:30,720
year?
>> It's okay. Something somebody should be

790
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:36,480
really looking at um
uh plan for code blue. Currently,

791
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:41,599
there's a code blue is provided in and
through a mun the town doing that um in

792
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:45,680
one of its buildings that's going to be
torn down. So, that's something we've

793
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:48,960
discussed a bit and I just want to say
it's really important by this winter,

794
01:02:47,839 --> 01:02:52,480
especially if this is going to start
happening, that we know what to do with

795
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:57,839
homeless people, of which we have at
least seven right now, who are sleeping

796
01:02:54,400 --> 01:03:02,960
on site. um heaters um in the covered
spot along the street. Will we have

797
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:06,240
heaters in the in the outdoor space?
It's just something to think about like

798
01:03:04,319 --> 01:03:13,280
you would have for a outdoor dining.
There will be people in the winter for

799
01:03:07,839 --> 01:03:19,119
whom that's really central. Um clarity
um clarity about the the walkway between

800
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:24,799
the church and the new building um is
important to us and clarity about fire

801
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:28,880
um trucks being able to get to the
building, ambulances, etc. Um, most of

802
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:33,680
those things I feel like you've already
very carefully looked at with us, but I

803
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:38,960
just want to reiterate before things go
that like especially with a two-year

804
01:03:35,839 --> 01:03:43,599
construction phase here. Um, I want to
make sure we have safety of our

805
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:48,480
buildings um, and access to worship for
people with disabilities during the two

806
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:53,680
years. And so if that means that we need
some sort of a shuttle bus parking at at

807
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:58,559
the at Donaldson Park or whatever it is
during those two years and we we are

808
01:03:56,640 --> 01:04:03,599
willing to be flexible and I absolutely
believe in the need for redevelopment in

809
01:04:01,119 --> 01:04:08,640
our downtown. Um and I'll look past lots
of things but some things I I won't

810
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:12,240
public bathrooms. You didn't show that
but I didn't look enough. I mean the

811
01:04:10,799 --> 01:04:14,720
public bathrooms in Highland Park right
now are the Reformed Church of Highland

812
01:04:13,599 --> 01:04:18,640
Park, right?
And we proudly share our bathrooms and

813
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:24,079
try our best to keep them clean for
everyone from the municipal workers who,

814
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:28,240
you know, had to go during COVID and
needed to be be there to folks who are

815
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:32,160
homeless day in and day out. And u just
want to make sure that as our parking

816
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:37,039
area or your parking area that we've
used for years has been, you know, will

817
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:42,720
be changed that there's enough public
bathroom space for those who don't have

818
01:04:39,599 --> 01:04:46,799
easy access to a place to go um when
they need to go. So that's important.

819
01:04:44,799 --> 01:04:53,280
And finally, who pays for the upkeep of
the 40 units um that the public occupies

820
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:58,319
um for the long term. So really happy
about to know that there's this

821
01:04:54,880 --> 01:05:03,520
long-term agreement in place, but um you
know, stuff crumbles and who's, you

822
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:09,280
know, it's an easement for us, but where
does the cost come from? Okay, so those

823
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:15,200
are my list of questions. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

824
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:20,480
» Okay. Before
we just move on, just a couple sorry it

825
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:25,119
is a tag team different folks. I just
wanted to the restroom question. I you

826
01:05:23,119 --> 01:05:30,160
raised a lot of good points but I have
an answer on the restroom ones off the

827
01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:37,119
top. Um when we are having our programs
um the there will be restrooms in both

828
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:42,160
the the uh burrow space in the building
but also in our plaza there's uh

829
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:46,799
restrooms where between one and two
we're doing the pricing for two and

830
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:51,520
hopefully we can afford two. Uh but we
believe you know when we're doing our

831
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:56,079
programs we should be able to not rely
on your facilities anymore or at least

832
01:05:53,920 --> 01:06:02,000
much much less. So, I really appreciate
the point and um I just wanted to

833
01:05:59,839 --> 01:06:06,240
clarify when you talk about the walkway,
you're are you talking about the walkway

834
01:06:03,599 --> 01:06:11,520
in between through from Magnolia to
Rariton or the one along towards

835
01:06:08,799 --> 01:06:14,559
» along the church and then we don't have
enough detail here to show that, but

836
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:17,559
we'll certainly talk. Okay, thanks.
Sorry.

837
01:06:18,480 --> 01:06:28,880
» I do. I I know I that's our code blue is
our um our shelter during uh cold months

838
01:06:25,839 --> 01:06:33,039
that we
are discussing that but it's an

839
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:38,880
important point.
Um, my name is Jessica Hunston and I

840
01:06:36,079 --> 01:06:44,960
wanted to ask, you spoke a lot about the
financial benefits of a payment lumen of

841
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:49,200
taxes for the developer, but I I think
it's really important to think about

842
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:56,319
what it means for our community as well.
Um, so you mentioned that um the

843
01:06:52,720 --> 01:07:00,720
developer would be um paying 1 million I
think you said less taxes annually. Um

844
01:06:59,119 --> 01:07:03,920
the other and and I'm just going to say
a few things and then if it's incorrect

845
01:07:02,079 --> 01:07:09,039
you can correct it or you can say yes
you're correct. Um I think the other the

846
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:14,640
part of that is that and I'm sure most
people here or not everybody here knows

847
01:07:11,839 --> 01:07:23,760
that when we have payment in li of taxes
those taxes go from usual agreements go

848
01:07:18,799 --> 01:07:28,799
95% to the city and 5% to the county and
none of that money unless there's an

849
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:33,440
agreement goes to the public schools.
And so one of the things that is really

850
01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:39,039
important and that you have done, the
bureau has done with um the Frederick is

851
01:07:36,799 --> 01:07:43,039
to have an annual agreement with the
school district to put some of that

852
01:07:41,359 --> 01:07:47,760
money towards the school. So which has
been really and that was in response to

853
01:07:45,119 --> 01:07:52,640
the community really advocating for
that. So I'm wanting to know if that has

854
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:58,400
also been discussed because that's a
really important part of this. Um, and I

855
01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:02,319
think there are many public school
advocates and supporters here in this

856
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:07,039
room and within our community that would
want to know that that is something that

857
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:11,359
the burrow is committed to doing.
>> It has been a part of our continual

858
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:16,000
discussion.
>> Yes. So there's no commitment to it

859
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:20,319
» at this point. It's under discussion and
it's on the table, but we haven't had

860
01:08:17,839 --> 01:08:24,560
that, you know, we're not revealing that
at this point. We don't have the

861
01:08:21,679 --> 01:08:28,799
agreement uh finalized at this point.
Okay. But I think the part that might be

862
01:08:27,279 --> 01:08:32,719
difficult at least for me and maybe
others to hear is when we talk about

863
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:37,120
that payment and remove tax as having
benefit to the developer, but we don't

864
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:40,159
talk about it as a complete picture of
what it means for our community.

865
01:08:38,719 --> 01:08:44,159
» I'll let you speak to that. Oh, you're
not done. I'm sorry.

866
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:51,199
» No. And I have one other question about
um that 1.5 million that you said the

867
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:55,920
developer was paying the bureau. Can you
just um let me know what they're you're

868
01:08:54,159 --> 01:08:59,440
they're paying us for? Is it which
property is it?

869
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:06,719
» I I don't know if I have an exhibit that
shows the Oh, I do actually. Let me go

870
01:09:02,239 --> 01:09:12,640
back. Um do you have lot lines? So the
burrow owns and the lot lines in the

871
01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:18,960
aerial don't match perfectly just to so
this lot here and I don't know them by

872
01:09:14,799 --> 01:09:24,239
heart is owned by the burrow and then as
well as I believe

873
01:09:20,799 --> 01:09:29,440
This one here, right, Chris or somebody?
Yes. Which is where uh Main Street's

874
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:35,520
office 212 Ritton, that's a burrow owned
property. Um as well as the parking lot

875
01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:38,319
basically that goes all the way through.
Those are the the properties owned by

876
01:09:37,679 --> 01:09:40,640
the burrow.
>> So how many lots?

877
01:09:39,839 --> 01:09:46,799
» It's two.
>> Okay. Those two. Okay. The the reason I

878
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:53,920
ask this question is because the the the
developer has paid much more for like uh

879
01:09:50,960 --> 01:10:00,159
land space lot space wise has paid much
more for the acquisitions they have

880
01:09:56,400 --> 01:10:09,760
prior to that. In 2023 they paid 1.25
million for lot 6.01. In 2022 they point

881
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:18,880
they paid 610,000 for lot one. In 2022,
they paid 950,000 for lot 34. In um 2022

882
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:25,760
also, they paid 850,000 for lot 9. And
they paid 850,000 also for lot 8. Um one

883
01:10:22,719 --> 01:10:30,400
more or two more. One more they paid the
first purchase they made 232. They paid

884
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:36,960
850,000.
So as you can see 1.5 is not a lot for

885
01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:43,760
that. So, I just wanted to maybe the
bureau can say why they took such a low

886
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:49,199
amount for that two that large those
large spaces. Um, and I I know I'm

887
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:53,840
asking some maybe challenging questions.
I don't but I really am in support of

888
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:59,360
the redevelopment. I think there's been
a lot of work that is done. It's time

889
01:10:56,719 --> 01:11:02,800
for our community to have redevelopment
and in a way that makes sense to our

890
01:11:01,280 --> 01:11:07,199
community. But I do think these
questions that I raised are really

891
01:11:04,719 --> 01:11:13,280
important ones um for for the reasons
that I raised them.

892
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:19,679
» I'll let Joe pick up on some of these.
>> Okay. U so let me start with the value

893
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:26,320
to the burrow. So uh right now the taxes
um on the properties that are paying

894
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:28,719
taxes or not is about $120,000 I think
annually

895
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:33,760
» 136
turn the math. So 136 um the annual

896
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:40,239
service charge is going to be roughly
570,000. So um there's a so just sort of

897
01:11:38,560 --> 01:11:45,360
out of the box the annual service charge
that we're going to uh enjoy is you know

898
01:11:43,679 --> 01:11:49,679
400,000 plus more so it's a
substantially more amount of money um

899
01:11:47,199 --> 01:11:54,320
than we're currently enjoying from the
from all those properties you described.

900
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:58,880
Um so that's that's the first benefit.
The second one is um you know I think

901
01:11:57,199 --> 01:12:03,840
what Terry and the mayor said was you
know as the race to the board of ed um

902
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:09,600
we haven't even had a vote on this yet
and publicist still ask questions about

903
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:15,040
that. So it felt premature um to engage
in any conversation um until we have

904
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:20,080
deal and then what we're talking about
um which is kind of the way we did it

905
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:25,040
last time for river uh the purchase
price. So um the we went through a

906
01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:29,040
competitive process and this and many
people felt that it was worth a lot

907
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:34,159
less. What history shows you um when you
do redevelopment is um the property

908
01:12:32,480 --> 01:12:40,239
owners in the area that they had to
purchase the property for um had a lot

909
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:44,320
of leverage, right? So um if you have a
property, you sort of have this key

910
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:48,000
piece of property um and you you were
aware and everyone was that they're

911
01:12:46,159 --> 01:12:51,280
going to sell it um that they're going
to be selling it. the developer needs it

912
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:55,679
to need this piece of property right
here, right? To make your development

913
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:58,480
work. Um, I would posit that some of
those prices are above market at the end

914
01:12:57,199 --> 01:13:02,640
of the day that they pay more than
market to make a project to assemble all

915
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:08,800
the property and make it work. So, and
then sort of the last point of it is um

916
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:14,080
from the burrow's perspective um I think
the the land and if the it's all part of

917
01:13:12,239 --> 01:13:18,560
the math, right? It's all goes into the
math. What's the total project cost?

918
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:23,199
What's the pilot they need? you you pay
you get more money from the land you

919
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:29,360
need a better pilot. Um so it all sort
of pulls and tugs at uh at one another

920
01:13:27,199 --> 01:13:33,199
$10 million for a land. Um we wouldn't
have been able to give them a pilot low

921
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:38,400
enough to make it work. Um so so it's
sort of all part of this um math

922
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:44,800
analysis that gets us to a number but it
was through a not an auction albe it but

923
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:48,080
through a process um was a piece of was
the number that was the the highest that

924
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:51,840
anyone offered to pay again some
offering to pay substantially less. So

925
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:56,320
it was it's part of the process we went
through. It's part of the math to make

926
01:13:53,040 --> 01:14:00,320
sure the transaction works. Um and I do
think at the end of the day uh may

927
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:04,480
disagree I don't know but I do think
that you know often whether it's because

928
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:08,159
our other plan other choice we could
they couldn't negotiate a transaction

929
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:13,040
with property owners we'd have to use as
we've done sparingly but never want to

930
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:18,159
but we are doing it across the street is
use combination which is never a great

931
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:22,480
solution right so I think those property
owners probably um if they were in the

932
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:26,320
market and it wasn't right buying it for
a bigger project would not have seen

933
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:30,320
those values So we're comfortable that
that number based upon the process we

934
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:36,880
went through based upon the analysis of
all the numbers together um is a is a

935
01:14:33,120 --> 01:14:41,199
fair number for this and again I think I
think it's also important to always

936
01:14:38,159 --> 01:14:46,159
bring back from the public sector side
we're trying to have a game changer

937
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:52,880
happen here for island park this is not
just a development deal this is an

938
01:14:48,719 --> 01:14:57,520
effort to um turn the t this is a red
area for a reason it's a redevelopment

939
01:14:55,120 --> 01:15:02,400
area because it's fits the criteria of
an area need of redevelopment. Not every

940
01:14:59,920 --> 01:15:08,159
piece of property fits that criteria. So
this is as much of a investment in the

941
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:11,920
community. If we took a somewhat less
number for our land for example, make

942
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:17,520
the math work. It's because we're
investing into a project that's gonna

943
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:25,440
put folks living in downtown, gonna put
a restaurant, retailing jumpstart u what

944
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:29,520
we hope to be a much larger development
improvement of the entire downtown. And

945
01:15:27,679 --> 01:15:34,239
sort of the last point I would make is
um the pioneer and almost every

946
01:15:32,719 --> 01:15:37,600
redevelopment project, which is who they
are in this project, the first one in

947
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:41,040
usually gets most of it gets more
benefits than the second one, the third

948
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:46,159
one. Uh we'll see how that plays out in
how it work. Um but this kind of project

949
01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:52,560
is also somewhat untested. You know,
this this side

950
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:56,080
sounds like I was going to add to
>> utilize the microphone.

951
01:15:53,520 --> 01:16:01,280
» I was I was gonna add to to Jessica's
question too. We looked at it also as a

952
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:05,440
huge benefit in the space that the
public is going to have for a very long

953
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:11,040
time. So I looked at that as part of the
cost as well. uh as well as the shared

954
01:16:08,159 --> 01:16:16,480
parking, public parking, that's property
that I can't we're basically taking over

955
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:21,360
the maintenance. There's a cost to that
and providing what the public has today,

956
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:25,600
but in a way that'll be better than what
is there today. So, I look at that as

957
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:28,760
cost that's part of the purchase price
as well.

958
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:39,920
Peter.
>> So, um, the question is, um, I don't

959
01:16:37,679 --> 01:16:47,440
really understand what you were saying
about the pilot. It was confusing.

960
01:16:44,719 --> 01:16:56,239
I can't believe what I thought. I heard
that they're paying initially 10% of

961
01:16:51,040 --> 01:17:01,920
their gross um, revenues going up to 80%
of their gross revenues, going up to 80%

962
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:06,880
of otherwise applicable taxes. So
there's a there's there's two there's

963
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:10,880
three numbers that we look at every year
to figure out what will be the annual

964
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:15,040
service charge. The first number is
they're campaigning less than they were

965
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:18,239
paying the year before. That's not going
to be a problem because they were paying

966
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:21,679
$120,000.
The second number we look at is a

967
01:17:20,080 --> 01:17:26,719
percentage of their annual gross
revenues. In this case, it starts at 10%

968
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:32,000
and then as you'll see in the financial
agreement over a period of time, it

969
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:34,320
rises to I think 12 and a half remember
>> 15%.

970
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:37,840
» Oh, I'm sorry. It rises to 15%. So the
10 becomes 15 over 30 years in

971
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:40,800
increments
>> of gross revenue.

972
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:45,360
» Yeah, gross revenues. So that's the
second set of numbers. First the last

973
01:17:43,199 --> 01:17:48,400
four quarters. Second number is this
percentage of annual gross revenues

974
01:17:46,719 --> 01:17:53,600
that's growing. So while revenues are
growing, right? the more revenues rents

975
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:58,000
will go up, the base number goes up and
also the percentage goes up. So by the

976
01:17:56,000 --> 01:18:01,760
end we will have enjoyed all the rent
increases that happened and then we'll

977
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:05,920
also have a higher percentage of those
numbers. That's

978
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:10,159
» okay. Gross up to 15%
>> at the end of uh so along the way goes

979
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:13,120
to 10 then I think it's 11
>> 11 12 and a half

980
01:18:11,360 --> 01:18:17,679
» and you'll how many years is it?
>> I think the first 15 years or 10

981
01:18:15,840 --> 01:18:22,080
» first 10 or 10.
>> Yeah. Can you answer that?

982
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:29,840
» Forget
>> the first 10 years I believe it was 10%

983
01:18:26,159 --> 01:18:35,679
and then it goes to 11% for 5 years and
then 12 and a half% for five years and

984
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:41,120
then uh 15% for the last 10. But during
that time also it's the greater of your

985
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:47,199
your percentage of the annual gross
revenues or a percentage of what your

986
01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:50,239
actual taxes would be. So, so that's the
f first minimum. Second is this

987
01:18:49,120 --> 01:18:53,840
percentage.
>> So the total amount of time for the

988
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:58,719
pilot is 30 years.
>> 30 year. Yeah. So our success is like is

989
01:18:56,719 --> 01:19:02,560
the burough success. So
>> the more successful we are, the more

990
01:19:00,719 --> 01:19:07,040
successful the town will be in
collecting revenue

991
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:13,920
» and the projected um gross revenue for
the first year.

992
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:20,880
» Uh they're stabilized. Hopefully we're
gross revenues at like five, 52, 53. I

993
01:19:17,760 --> 01:19:26,320
think you had 55 up here. 56.
>> Yeah. And and one thing to note too,

994
01:19:22,719 --> 01:19:33,679
when we submitted our RFP, interest
rates were much lower. Uh I think today

995
01:19:29,760 --> 01:19:39,840
we're at the 10 years at 5.85.
Um these numbers don't show the debt

996
01:19:36,480 --> 01:19:45,280
service. So what we're really like
there's not a lot of room here. Um, you

997
01:19:42,719 --> 01:19:52,000
know, even if you were borrowing a
portion of of the capital that would be

998
01:19:48,800 --> 01:19:57,920
put into the project, uh, at we're at
the floor of like 6%, you know, that's

999
01:19:54,800 --> 01:20:02,560
on $50 million borrow, you know, if
you're borrowing $50 million, that's $3

1000
01:20:00,560 --> 01:20:07,760
million in just debt service on interest
only. So, that's a that's also a game

1001
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:13,440
changer. There's not, you know, we're
taking a long-term view. as as Joe said,

1002
01:20:10,719 --> 01:20:18,880
we're here for hopefully for generations
and uh and I'm not looking at just the

1003
01:20:16,159 --> 01:20:25,600
first 10 years, but it's going to take
time to, you know, there's not and I to

1004
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:30,719
actually um you know be long-term
successful financially. So,

1005
01:20:27,679 --> 01:20:34,400
» so what Brett's saying to you is um this
I know my number doesn't include test

1006
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:39,679
service, right? So he just did the
numbers for you. The numbers that shows

1007
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:45,440
that I think we agree with had him with
negative cash flow for 15 and get better

1008
01:20:44,159 --> 01:20:50,480
over time. His rents go up of course,
but he had negative cash flow meaning

1009
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:58,320
his operating expenses and service and
the annual service charge um will be

1010
01:20:54,080 --> 01:21:02,480
greater than his income for many years.
Um and again that's Charlie because

1011
01:21:00,159 --> 01:21:07,840
they're willing to do that because they
they buy and hold and this will be for

1012
01:21:04,719 --> 01:21:12,600
breast children's children's children
someday.

1013
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:12,600
Um

1014
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:21,760
sorry how you doing?
Wonderful to be here talking about this.

1015
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:29,600
It's been such a long time in coming.
You said it was about 25 20 years is

1016
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:34,239
about 25 but who's counting. Um so um
the um I really support the development

1017
01:21:32,880 --> 01:21:38,640
um and I think it's wonderful and
congratulations to everyone including

1018
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:42,000
our developer partner for getting us to
this point where we can I support the

1019
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:45,600
project. So for me this is not a
question about whether or not I support

1020
01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:52,000
the project but it's how do we make the
most out of this gamechanging you know

1021
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:55,600
what's opportunity to shape the town.
Um, some of that comes from tax revenue.

1022
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:59,760
Some of that comes from having vitality
on downtown. That's just the nature of

1023
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:05,360
development. But the other major thing
is the community benefits. So, um, we're

1024
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:09,840
getting a pilot. We're selling a piece
of property as a consideration. And the

1025
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:16,960
main community benefit that I think
we're getting is the 3000 foot indoor

1026
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:23,760
space and the 3000 foot adjoining pause.
And so, um, I'm wondering

1027
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:28,080
what, um, formal assessment of need was
done, like what unmet need are we

1028
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:34,159
meeting, um, to make the decision that
that's where we're going to put the big

1029
01:22:30,880 --> 01:22:40,560
benefit. Um, seems to me that we have
already a number of similar smallalish

1030
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:44,719
scale, maybe undersized public spaces.
We have an underutilized environmental

1031
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:48,960
center. Uh we've got the senior center
which is about twice as big, maybe four

1032
01:22:47,679 --> 01:22:55,360
times as big if you just count the
indoor space. Um we've got the teen

1033
01:22:52,239 --> 01:22:59,520
center. Um and then we have the Burough
Square development where the proper part

1034
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:02,719
of it is about 11,000 square feet. Um
and then to accommodate the farmers

1035
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:07,520
market, we have to wrap around the
corner and compete with the parking lot.

1036
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:13,760
Um and there's been concerns raised that
that's a step down from what we have and

1037
01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:18,960
that it's undersized. Um, so my question
is does like is the right thing to do

1038
01:23:16,480 --> 01:23:24,320
with this once in a lifetime chance to
make another sort of

1039
01:23:22,159 --> 01:23:29,120
disjointed plaza. I guess you can see
where my sympathy sl trying to hide it

1040
01:23:26,320 --> 01:23:33,360
but not doing a good job. Um, you know,
sort of freestanding as opposed to

1041
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:38,960
concentrating our investment to make
something that is really big will stand

1042
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:44,000
the test of time. um to make the Burough
Square project bigger um where we could

1043
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:47,679
accommodate everyone for big ceremonies,
for tree lighting, for big festivals um

1044
01:23:46,560 --> 01:23:51,120
as opposed to having to make real
compromises there. And if you go back to

1045
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:54,120
the slide that showed the Burough Square
development,

1046
01:23:54,239 --> 01:24:02,000
» we're getting into my area.
>> Um this one,

1047
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:05,440
» the one with the with the this one.
>> Yes. It's just so patent. Yeah. So

1048
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:08,719
here's the sort of proper part of
Burough Square. It's quite small. And

1049
01:24:07,199 --> 01:24:13,280
then here's like the roundabout, right?
So this is really still street and then

1050
01:24:10,800 --> 01:24:16,880
this is a parking lot, right? So here's
here's where the the thing happens and

1051
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:20,639
here's overflow. It's just so obvious to
me that like there's these two

1052
01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:24,560
residential properties and we're talking
about spending a million dollars, you

1053
01:24:22,400 --> 01:24:28,960
know, to buy properties. Like you can
buy a house like that for a million

1054
01:24:25,840 --> 01:24:33,280
dollars. Um, and they they find they
create a new way to connect to the main

1055
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:36,719
property and they completely open up and
transform the space and they they

1056
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:40,880
provide so much more opportunity to make
something meaningful out of all of this

1057
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:46,000
as opposed to a relatively small,
unproven, untested kind of standalone

1058
01:24:44,239 --> 01:24:49,840
thing. I'll also note that having a lot
of disjointed public spaces can be

1059
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:54,239
expensive. Each one has to be separately
managed, maintained, programmed. Um if

1060
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:57,679
we ever want to create like
sustainability resiliency hubs for code

1061
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:00,960
blue or something like that. So we want
infrastructure

1062
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:06,000
um like we want for for the senior
center we want to put solar and battery

1063
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:10,800
backup storage and water storage and
other things that can make that in the

1064
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:14,719
event of a disaster a community hub. We
would need to invest in that. You can't

1065
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:19,840
you can't build all that infrastructure
redundantly and you can't make micro

1066
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:24,000
grids on properties that are disjointed.
So concentrating your efforts in one

1067
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:27,840
area is just a smarter way to do it than
having all these little thing you know

1068
01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:31,760
things around scatter but we already
have a number of things that are already

1069
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:35,520
like this. Um so I guess my question is
how much opportunity is there to still

1070
01:25:33,679 --> 01:25:39,120
consider something like that and has
there been a formal kind of unmet need

1071
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:44,560
assessment that went into that
particular decision and and just finally

1072
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:51,120
I'll just note that the the amount that
is being spent on that as uh Mr. Bowman

1073
01:25:48,400 --> 01:25:56,159
said is quite significant. Uh so it's
not just the cost to build it, but it's

1074
01:25:53,040 --> 01:26:00,239
the deferred value of what the developer
could be making from that. Um so it's a

1075
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:05,520
significant community benefit and a
significant concession. And although

1076
01:26:02,719 --> 01:26:11,040
there's things that were listed like um
streetscaping, affordable units, um a

1077
01:26:08,480 --> 01:26:14,000
good faith effort on hiring, most of
those things are compliance things. They

1078
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:17,360
have to be done. They also benefit the
developer. When you talk about the

1079
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:20,880
things where a dollar figure can be
attached to it, that can be part of a

1080
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:27,159
negotiation. As far as I can tell,
unless I miss something, the the little

1081
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:27,159
plaza is the real benefit.

1082
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:36,719
» Um, take exception at Little Plaza and
Little Indoor Space. But um

1083
01:26:34,800 --> 01:26:43,440
to back it up a long ways when we did
the redevelopment plan that envisioned

1084
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:49,520
the track project and even I believe
even in kind of earlier visions from

1085
01:26:45,679 --> 01:26:54,400
2005. Um there was always a desire to
have and and frankly it came out in

1086
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:59,360
droves of the public comment when we
were doing the the redevelopment plan

1087
01:26:56,719 --> 01:27:05,120
that we whatever developments we do need
to have public space incorporated

1088
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:09,520
and that was an important component. So
the public did drive maybe not the how

1089
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:15,199
it all got laid out but the the
dedication of this space and because

1090
01:27:12,159 --> 01:27:19,920
this is a large street front that said
we've since you know established south

1091
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:25,280
third as the place for our outdoor
community plaza um and we see them as

1092
01:27:23,679 --> 01:27:30,719
working as complimentary with each
other. I don't disagree with you know

1093
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:37,120
that would a nicer larger plaza one day
be nice over here absolutely something

1094
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:42,239
as a secondary phase but budget and
other constraints made this very

1095
01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:45,120
difficult
>> wasn't for sale

1096
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:48,719
» and they weren't for sale I mean we were
lucky to some extent that these

1097
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:54,400
properties adjacent to our municipal
lots made themselves available um at a

1098
01:27:52,719 --> 01:27:58,719
time where it kind of worked for our
project. So, but I was just getting back

1099
01:27:56,800 --> 01:28:03,920
to kind of where the impetus came was
from the planning process from prior to

1100
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:07,280
Garden Homes being on the scene. Um, I
lost track of where Randy went in the

1101
01:28:05,199 --> 01:28:12,400
crowd. There he is there. Sorry, I went
into So, um, you know, doesn't mean down

1102
01:28:10,719 --> 01:28:17,040
the line, you know, I I don't want to
say you we couldn't reprogramming now,

1103
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:21,679
but the deal that we've gotten to and
that we're all, you know, meeting

1104
01:28:19,600 --> 01:28:26,080
professional staff and the governing
body has, you know, we've been talking

1105
01:28:24,159 --> 01:28:30,880
about this space since the get and it
would be a a major turn right now to

1106
01:28:28,639 --> 01:28:37,280
change it. I is that a fair thing to
say? Um, and I think as to no, we did

1107
01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:42,400
not do a formal, you know, analysis, but
I can tell you my informal analysis is

1108
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:47,440
we're teaming over at the community
center where with programming needs. Our

1109
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:54,000
our boards and commissions want events
and we're having trouble finding places.

1110
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:58,480
Um, and so in my mind, at a minimum,
this is going to be additional community

1111
01:28:56,880 --> 01:29:04,880
programming space, but we want to keep
it active. Um ultimately we we in and it

1112
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:08,800
wasn't shown in this design if we were
hoping Main Street would want to move

1113
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:13,120
into this space and use it to also do
incubator and other kinds of spaces. TBD

1114
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:17,600
we haven't had in-depth conversations
with them. They know that the that's

1115
01:29:15,199 --> 01:29:22,080
where we're envisioning long-term office
being available in there. So we see it

1116
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:26,000
as kind of a but we don't want it to be
a dead space, but we also feel it's an

1117
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:30,800
amenity to the building and it's amenity
to downtown to have a covered space as

1118
01:29:28,159 --> 01:29:34,960
well. Um, and it also could add an
element to our programming. So, I'm I'm

1119
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:38,239
jumping around, but I I guess yes, I
think it would be a major left turn at

1120
01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:42,080
this point to reprogram. That doesn't
mean that in 30 years or 50 years our

1121
01:29:40,480 --> 01:29:46,880
lease is out and if there's a better use
or we've decided on something, I'm sure

1122
01:29:44,159 --> 01:29:51,040
we can negotiate a change with Garden
Homes. Uh, if if it if it doesn't work

1123
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:56,080
out, but I'm confident we can make it
work and we're going to have um get a

1124
01:29:53,520 --> 01:30:01,679
lot of good use out of that space. Um,
did I cover Ian? That's the gist. Okay,

1125
01:30:00,320 --> 01:30:07,520
» Patrick,
>> thank you. Um, just two things. One, I

1126
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:12,400
wanted to I don't know re-emphasize what
Seth said. I work on the uh or serve on

1127
01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:17,920
the affordable housing authority and it
is very difficult to get uh even with uh

1128
01:30:15,679 --> 01:30:22,239
people that have vouchers to find them
places because of resistance on

1129
01:30:19,760 --> 01:30:26,000
landlords. and if there's a possibility
you could work with the burrow and our

1130
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:31,040
housing authority to maybe meet your
needs and you know again I don't know

1131
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:35,040
the details but it's certainly an avenue
you know we're pursuing that you know

1132
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:38,400
could get people
>> who have vouchers into affordable

1133
01:30:36,719 --> 01:30:43,040
housing so that's that's a possibility
that we can work on and the second would

1134
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:49,360
be a kind of a suggestion for you all is
to put the numbers in a in a more

1135
01:30:45,679 --> 01:30:55,040
readily uh accessible you know fashion
like it Like it's good to know that the

1136
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:59,440
existing houses that aren't part of the
burrow property, what it say 135

1137
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:04,560
something like that. So that's about 90
in school taxes. So if you put 90 up

1138
01:31:02,400 --> 01:31:08,719
against $400,000, you can see that
there's a possibility it's not a

1139
01:31:06,560 --> 01:31:12,639
difficult reach to meet or exceed that
number. So that would be a good thing to

1140
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:19,679
do. And then you could put up also the
fact that with 134 plus you know 150 odd

1141
01:31:16,880 --> 01:31:24,159
units that's a lot of put traffic on the
businesses and so that in and of itself

1142
01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:28,800
has a positive impact. But I think if
you made some sort of cheat sheet like

1143
01:31:26,239 --> 01:31:32,960
that and make you know front page it
would go a long way and and also break

1144
01:31:31,040 --> 01:31:37,360
down the various numbers that people are
rightly concerned with but have it you

1145
01:31:35,199 --> 01:31:40,960
know very you know simple that a
carpenter would read.

1146
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:45,679
» I I agree. Yeah. We can definitely do
the cheat sheet fact sheet. I think

1147
01:31:42,719 --> 01:31:50,880
that's a really good suggestion. Um, and
that voucher question we are going to

1148
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:54,159
look into the it is typical for third
parties to administer the affordable

1149
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:59,600
units. They do all the, you know,
vetting and qualifying and we can find

1150
01:31:56,960 --> 01:32:03,360
out if that's if they if there's any
reason they can't. Uh, I don't, you

1151
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:09,719
know, I don't I it never even occurred
to me that that would be a constraint.

1152
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:09,719
So, we'll certainly look into it.

1153
01:32:10,400 --> 01:32:16,880
Um, I want to thank everybody. I very
much support redevelopment. I want to

1154
01:32:15,199 --> 01:32:22,320
thank everybody who put in a lot of work
on this and I want to thank Homes for

1155
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:26,880
their commitment to Highland Park. Uh, I
have two questions. Uh, the first is, is

1156
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:32,960
there any potential for acquiring more
properties or are you done?

1157
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:38,719
You know, another spot on Magnolia there
became available. Would you consider

1158
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:41,840
firing it? how we looked at it, but I
don't think it would make sense for this

1159
01:32:40,639 --> 01:32:46,400
particular project.
>> Okay. And um my second question is you

1160
01:32:44,480 --> 01:32:51,520
mentioned earlier that we're facing some
rising borrowing rates. Um you know,

1161
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:56,800
there's potential for interest rates to
climb more as we face inflation. How

1162
01:32:54,639 --> 01:32:59,360
resilient are your plans to rise against
interest rates?

1163
01:32:58,080 --> 01:33:02,360
» Before you answer, do you mind coming
up?

1164
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:12,239
Yeah, look, I I mean, we're,
you know, we're committed to the

1165
01:33:08,480 --> 01:33:20,480
project. So, I think uh we we built for
for years through different um economic

1166
01:33:17,440 --> 01:33:26,080
environments. So, yeah, just it doesn't
make it any easier. Hoping that over the

1167
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:31,239
next 30 years, things will e flow and uh
things will will come back at some

1168
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:31,239
point. So,

1169
01:33:32,639 --> 01:33:38,440
partnering waits at a certain point it's
like back we can't do this anymore

1170
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:46,639
» I I have um two questions one relates to
um to the extent there are any

1171
01:33:44,159 --> 01:33:50,719
residential uh tenants in many of the
buildings uh for the project even

1172
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:56,400
commercial tenants there are a few um
how are the residential tenants being um

1173
01:33:54,320 --> 01:34:01,199
how are there how's that re relocation
being handled uh are they being treated

1174
01:33:59,199 --> 01:34:05,040
uh and finding you know, a comparable
place uh to live. Uh that first

1175
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:08,080
question. So,
>> um Brett, do you mind fielding that one

1176
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:12,719
too?
>> Shouldn't we should invite you up here

1177
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:20,000
about your current tenants? Yeah, we're
we're always sensitive to current

1178
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:26,400
tenants and um recently we gave notice
um to the existing to the current

1179
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:31,679
tenants and uh I think it's through it's
you know it's a month beyond what the

1180
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:36,800
statute statute requires knowing that
you know folks will probably say hey can

1181
01:34:34,080 --> 01:34:42,880
I stay longer and and I know with the
church we're we're having those

1182
01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:47,440
conversations to see any tenants um you
know that they know of that uh can be

1183
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:52,159
impacted. We're we're trying to work
with everyone. So while at the same time

1184
01:34:49,920 --> 01:34:57,280
want to be reasonable to hopefully get
the projects or we want to we're human

1185
01:34:54,960 --> 01:35:00,960
beings too.
>> I can answer that.

1186
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:06,800
» Thank you. I would just um reiterate I
think it's important for um the burrow

1187
01:35:03,679 --> 01:35:11,199
or or the developer to help tenants find
a comparable location uh with comparable

1188
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:15,520
rents and the extent that there are
moving costs and inconveniences that

1189
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:22,239
that somehow not be born on the backs of
the renters. Uh the second question um

1190
01:35:19,199 --> 01:35:27,440
just you know relates to um I think you
have this concept plan and few slides

1191
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:32,960
ahead and um yeah thank that one that
was fun um there is a bus I'm like the

1192
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:40,800
bus guy but um one of the bus guys but
there was a bus stop um sort of at the

1193
01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:44,159
corner of second and Ritton and um like
>> on on the on the north side

1194
01:35:42,239 --> 01:35:46,080
» on the north side. Yeah. Well, well,
actually on the on both sides just

1195
01:35:45,440 --> 01:35:49,679
there's there
>> isn't isn't it over here on

1196
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:54,080
» there's one on every block. Okay.
>> It's pretty busy will tell you it's

1197
01:35:52,239 --> 01:35:57,600
probably too many bus that that being
said um there is a bus stop on beginning

1198
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:59,600
of each block as you head there's a
shelter.

1199
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:04,639
» Yeah. Um
>> that's why it's I think um given the

1200
01:36:03,199 --> 01:36:08,320
investment in the you have a lot of
parking your building. Um there's a bus

1201
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:12,000
stop there. Uh I don't believe there may
be a bus shelter. I don't think so. But

1202
01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:17,440
I think what you have is an opportunity
to really uh you know really make a

1203
01:36:15,280 --> 01:36:22,560
space for people who are waiting for the
bus and make that a real kind of spot

1204
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:26,320
for people to now either be you know
shel you know shelter from the elements

1205
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:29,760
when they're waiting for the bus um you
know be able to take part of some of the

1206
01:36:28,239 --> 01:36:34,800
activities along there. So I think
really making a that bus stop a real

1207
01:36:32,080 --> 01:36:38,480
space and a real place uh and you know
sort of making that front um that would

1208
01:36:36,639 --> 01:36:41,280
be something I could encourage you to
think about

1209
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:46,560
» and and you just joged my mind. Sorry,
you can say um one important benefit

1210
01:36:44,159 --> 01:36:52,400
although it's you know it seems like
obvious but sometimes you we I forget

1211
01:36:48,719 --> 01:36:57,600
too we we have a lot of driveways
cutting these sidewalk through this area

1212
01:36:55,440 --> 01:37:03,119
because of all the individual parcels
that are there and this closes them with

1213
01:37:00,639 --> 01:37:08,719
the exception of our pedestrian access
way here which is going to make it more

1214
01:37:05,360 --> 01:37:13,760
safe for pedestrians but also allow us
potentially to expand avail available on

1215
01:37:11,440 --> 01:37:19,119
street parking and one important point
that uh it was in a slide but we didn't

1216
01:37:15,679 --> 01:37:25,600
really hit on it um to provide uh with
DOT approval ADA at least one but maybe

1217
01:37:22,239 --> 01:37:33,239
we can do more ADA accessible spots on
Ritin. So we should think about your bus

1218
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:33,239
suggestion in that context as well. Um

1219
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:40,480
» hi so I just have a I just have a quick
question about the indoor outdoor 6000

1220
01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:44,719
space. Um, right now I understand it's
like a 50-year lease and then after that

1221
01:37:42,400 --> 01:37:48,719
it's up for renewal. Are there any terms
in the agreement about the renewal

1222
01:37:46,239 --> 01:37:52,800
process? So like in 50 years about
generations, will my bankage see a

1223
01:37:51,199 --> 01:37:54,639
storefront there or will that still be a
public space?

1224
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:58,679
» Still be a public space.
>> Okay. Now for a dog.

1225
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:07,679
Just wonder are any um studies being
done on the effect of new businesses and

1226
01:38:04,719 --> 01:38:12,480
apartments on Rare Avenue because it'll
be bumper to bumper or the traffic

1227
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:17,040
lights going to be regular how many the
new businesses and apartments or the new

1228
01:38:15,440 --> 01:38:21,840
cars.
>> That sounds like a traffic question

1229
01:38:18,719 --> 01:38:26,639
which I'm not able to answer. I hope it
gets bumper to bumper and we have a lot

1230
01:38:23,520 --> 01:38:30,880
of people walking around our town and
shopping in those shops. Uh so we're we

1231
01:38:29,440 --> 01:38:34,320
know it's going to be I mean you don't
need to be a traffic engineer to be to

1232
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:39,360
assume there will be a little more
traffic as a result of this development.

1233
01:38:36,480 --> 01:38:44,480
They have the parking um and you know we
have signalized intersections to help

1234
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:51,400
manage the traffic. Um but I'm assuming
DOT looks at these things and we'll have

1235
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:51,400
an opinion but we think this works. Um

1236
01:38:54,719 --> 01:39:04,000
» hi. Um, also just continuing on that,
you just talk a little bit about

1237
01:38:59,760 --> 01:39:10,560
explaining in detail where the parking
spaces for the the tenants and what the

1238
01:39:07,920 --> 01:39:14,960
flow is. When I when I look at that, it
looks like all the parking will have to

1239
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:21,520
come in through all the
>> I I can explain the confusion. It's

1240
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:24,159
because I did the I did this uh the uh
>> Huh. Brett.

1241
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:30,480
» Uh but but well no because I don't want
to put Brett on the spot for my bad my

1242
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:34,639
layout. I stole from his plans uh the
landscape plan the first floor. So

1243
01:39:33,040 --> 01:39:39,600
you're looking at basically and that's
the lower level of parking here. Okay.

1244
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:41,040
» Covered parking.
>> Yes.

1245
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:44,960
» So there's parking
>> and then there's and it's under So this

1246
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:47,600
is structured podium parking, right
Brett? I don't know what you call it.

1247
01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:52,080
Maybe you could do a better job. But
what I was trying to show in one shot,

1248
01:39:49,679 --> 01:39:58,320
which is hard to do, um, is that there
are two levels of parking, covered

1249
01:39:55,199 --> 01:40:02,080
parking in in this area, right, Brett?
>> Yes.

1250
01:39:58,719 --> 01:40:06,320
» Uhu. And the surface is the surface
here, which is more or less what we're

1251
01:40:04,800 --> 01:40:08,960
used to as the surface parking.
>> Street level parking.

1252
01:40:07,199 --> 01:40:13,679
» As street level parking. What's
interesting is because the topography

1253
01:40:10,639 --> 01:40:19,679
here, Raritin's lower than here. So they
were able to tuck in a layer of parking

1254
01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:23,600
at grade there, but then as you the
project moves back on the site, it's at

1255
01:40:21,440 --> 01:40:27,920
a higher level and they could have
parking on two levels, but it's not like

1256
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:29,920
a deck where you can circulate within
the two levels. But Brett, please help

1257
01:40:29,440 --> 01:40:33,920
me.
>> Yeah. Understand how everybody's coming

1258
01:40:33,360 --> 01:40:39,040
in.
>> There's so here this is one way in on

1259
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:41,600
the lower level and then this is another
way in on the upper. The upper is not

1260
01:40:40,639 --> 01:40:44,480
depicted here.
>> Okay. Um,

1261
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:47,199
» yeah, there's a Oh, sorry.
>> I'll try.

1262
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:54,000
» So, there's a 10-ft grade change from
Raritin to Magnolia. So, to play into

1263
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:58,800
the grade, um, we're able to have like
one level that's on the level with

1264
01:40:56,159 --> 01:41:03,360
Raritin and then another level when
you're coming up Magnolia that will sit

1265
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:08,480
above it. So, it's two levels of podium,
but from the back, it's you're coming in

1266
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:13,280
at street level. But when you get
towards the front, you'll be one level

1267
01:41:10,159 --> 01:41:21,199
above Raritin. You and those cars will
be behind these like brownstone style

1268
01:41:17,199 --> 01:41:29,360
units. So, and in here on the Raritin
level, there are uh dedicated spots that

1269
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:34,880
are shared um parking that'll are
undercover. And this is an amenity deck

1270
01:41:32,639 --> 01:41:39,360
above the parking. So, there's no units
sitting above here. It's it's an amenity

1271
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:44,480
deck. Um
and then these are the surface spots. So

1272
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:49,199
the circulation is like from this side
and then that side. They're not they're

1273
01:41:46,719 --> 01:41:52,080
independent of each other.
Does that make sense?

1274
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:57,040
» And and I can assure you they're much
better exhibits uh pending for the

1275
01:41:54,320 --> 01:42:00,560
planning board site plan review. So, uh,
when that becomes available

1276
01:41:58,400 --> 01:42:05,920
» and there's also, if you can see here,
there'll be like an elevator and a

1277
01:42:04,719 --> 01:42:08,800
there's an elevator here,
>> I think. Is it here or there?

1278
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:15,199
» Or it might it might be further up, but
there's a way basically accessibility

1279
01:42:11,119 --> 01:42:20,159
from Magnolia to Raron.
Um, you could take the stairs, too.

1280
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:27,520
» Yeah. So, so, um, we could probably get
you a better, this was a highle, um,

1281
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:35,199
diagram. Um but the the the nuts and
bolts are there are 258

1282
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:39,199
spaces probably 30 something are out
here maybe in total the rest are in the

1283
01:42:38,400 --> 01:42:44,320
structure.
>> Every everyone enters or exits on

1284
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:48,560
» you can enter the lower level this way
and you enter the upper level this way.

1285
01:42:46,800 --> 01:42:52,880
» But those are the two entry points for
all the new residents

1286
01:42:49,520 --> 01:42:56,639
» for the cars. Yes. the the human beings
can access their units as they're

1287
01:42:55,119 --> 01:42:59,520
» everybody comes in or leaves in the
morning when they go to work and when

1288
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:02,800
everybody comes back the end of the day
kind of thing.

1289
01:43:00,639 --> 01:43:06,800
» Fortunately, it doesn't really work out
that everybody's coming in at the exact

1290
01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:13,440
same moment. But yeah, there there will
be times of the day where it will there

1291
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:18,480
will be peaks two ways.
>> Snor, you got to get in line.

1292
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:24,800
» No, no, behind.
>> Fine. It's fine.

1293
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:28,080
Okay. Um, so I just want to say I'm I'm
so excited to to be here tonight to see

1294
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:31,679
this moving forward, to see the
progress. I'm super excited for Bar

1295
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:36,719
Square. Um, I've been waiting for that
to to happen ever since the town tables

1296
01:43:34,239 --> 01:43:39,199
were shut down after COVID. Um, one
thing I'm really excited about and

1297
01:43:37,840 --> 01:43:43,280
really interested in is the public
space. And I was wondering what's going

1298
01:43:41,440 --> 01:43:46,560
to be the process for deciding what goes
there, for programming it. What are the

1299
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:49,119
conversations going to be like? Because
I'm, you know, thinking in my head, what

1300
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:52,719
could go there? Like could we have an
ice skating rink? It's probably too

1301
01:43:50,480 --> 01:43:55,440
small, but can the rec department get
involved? Will there be rec classes

1302
01:43:54,159 --> 01:43:59,119
there? If there are going to be rec
classes, say like adult fitness,

1303
01:43:57,280 --> 01:44:04,400
gymnastics classes for our kids, that
kind of stuff. Can the site be the space

1304
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:08,000
be designed for, you know, like have the
softer floors be designed to host things

1305
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:11,119
like that? So, I was just wondering
what's the process for deciding how that

1306
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:14,800
space is going to be used and how it'll
be designed and when would that happen?

1307
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:19,280
» Yeah, we've talked about that. We want
to have a committee, the rec directors,

1308
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:23,119
you know, both Ann Marie and Kim will be
very much involved as well as Main

1309
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:28,080
Street Highland Park because we see them
both as being frankly the most likely

1310
01:44:25,920 --> 01:44:34,639
primary users and programmers of the
space. Um, and I think all of I think

1311
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:38,400
it's probably flex space is the word of
the day. So similar to how we use the

1312
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:42,320
community center, you know, to the
extent we could even do partitions so we

1313
01:44:40,239 --> 01:44:46,960
can carve it up in different ways, we
were we were looking at that and we were

1314
01:44:44,480 --> 01:44:52,480
discussing that with Garden Homes. So we
will be talking with them about kind of

1315
01:44:49,679 --> 01:44:56,080
the fit out in more detail. We just the
agreement basically puts a pin in. We

1316
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:59,920
got to get restrooms, we got to we need
the plumbing, we need certain things.

1317
01:44:58,080 --> 01:45:04,560
But certainly within reason, I'm sure
they will accommodate. If it's something

1318
01:45:01,679 --> 01:45:08,960
we think is a value ad, we may have to
do additional, you know, special

1319
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:13,280
flooring or acoustics or something like
that, we would have to. But I think the

1320
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:17,280
most practical thing and what I see the
most need for is the kind of space

1321
01:45:15,199 --> 01:45:20,960
you're describing. I just think it would
be great if you know to the gang could

1322
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:25,679
do their rehearsals there. You know,
things like that I think would be and

1323
01:45:23,119 --> 01:45:28,639
and the arts commission has a a gallery
exhibit that could be open for time. You

1324
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:33,360
know, those are the kinds of things that
I've heard over the years that we just

1325
01:45:30,480 --> 01:45:37,520
where would we put it, you know, um but
we we will have a committee that kind of

1326
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:42,560
formulates it and we'll obviously have
rules and facility use agreements and

1327
01:45:40,080 --> 01:45:48,000
things like that, you know. Um but I'm
pretty confident we can find lots of use

1328
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:49,840
for it. Um so I hope I answered your
question.

1329
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:53,119
» Yeah. And just one thing I wanted to
clarify, I think you did touch on this,

1330
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:56,880
but is the closed space going to open up
entirely into the outdoor space? It's

1331
01:45:54,719 --> 01:46:00,080
not like wide open, but there are large
kind of large door openings. I don't

1332
01:45:58,639 --> 01:46:04,560
know if there Brad, I don't know if
you've gotten any further on the design

1333
01:46:01,679 --> 01:46:10,080
of the those doors that would divide the
open and the closed spaces, but the idea

1334
01:46:07,360 --> 01:46:13,520
is it breeds. So like my vision is, you
know, we've had these markets and then

1335
01:46:11,440 --> 01:46:18,480
the weather didn't cooperate or wouldn't
it be cool to do it and you could have

1336
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:22,320
it inside outside still, but it you
you're not going like please please

1337
01:46:20,239 --> 01:46:26,800
don't snow rain, you know, whatever. So
that was kind of the vision behind the

1338
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:30,119
the design process that we had with
Garden Homes.

1339
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:41,840
» I um my kind of like I just have some
curiosities. It's kind of similar to

1340
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:47,360
that. Um so like just to preface this, I
am definitely for renovating and and

1341
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:50,800
rejuvenating the downtown. Um, my
family's been living in Highland Park

1342
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:55,199
since they moved from Italy in the 50s
and we've all grown up in the town. So,

1343
01:46:53,280 --> 01:47:00,159
I have a lot of respect for it and I
value the town a lot. Um, I was kind of

1344
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:04,000
thinking as you guys were talking is I'm
very curious to know because I was born

1345
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:06,880
in 2000 so a lot of this planning all
through the years I just I you know as a

1346
01:47:06,480 --> 01:47:09,440
kid
>> where were you at

1347
01:47:07,679 --> 01:47:14,480
» I know I'm not paying attention to it.
I'm so sorry. Um, but I'm paying

1348
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:19,760
attention now. I was kind of curious
what inspired it. Um because I've been

1349
01:47:18,159 --> 01:47:24,960
hearing a lot of talk about like we want
more foot traffic. Um we want more

1350
01:47:22,880 --> 01:47:28,960
people to come to our businesses which I
agree. I feel like our restaurants don't

1351
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:34,159
get as much business as they should
because they're very good. Um but I'm

1352
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:38,560
thinking like
as a a person in their 20s, a lot of

1353
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:41,840
like my friends, what makes them want to
come to Highland Park is like our

1354
01:47:40,080 --> 01:47:46,880
community things. like the farmers
markets is like a really big one. Um

1355
01:47:45,199 --> 01:47:53,280
sometimes like the businesses will have
little things like pinos or um the

1356
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:56,800
fitness studios. So I'm kind of worried
a little bit that we're having maybe

1357
01:47:54,880 --> 01:48:01,920
like more restaurants potentially
because I'm worried that since they're

1358
01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:06,480
not doing maybe as well as we want them
to that even though we have more people

1359
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:10,560
it just might not like attract their
interest. So that's why I was kind of

1360
01:48:08,239 --> 01:48:14,880
curious like what inspired
this in the like what inspired everyone

1361
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:19,920
to want to do this and like design it in
the first place?

1362
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:24,400
» Well, as the exhibit I'll just say the
the need to kind of re redevelop and

1363
01:48:22,639 --> 01:48:30,159
energize this area has been in the
burrows before I was living here. Okay.

1364
01:48:27,679 --> 01:48:34,159
Um and working here for sure. Um and
this site in particular has been the

1365
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:38,880
subject to a lot of attention over the
years. Um, this particular mix was

1366
01:48:37,040 --> 01:48:42,880
something that we collaborated with
Garden Homes on in terms of the

1367
01:48:40,639 --> 01:48:45,920
restaurant. That corner would make it
makes a great

1368
01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:48,480
» In the picture, it looks really like
stunning, you know.

1369
01:48:46,800 --> 01:48:53,760
» Yeah, it it's it's it's a high because
of the way the road turns. It's a very

1370
01:48:51,520 --> 01:49:00,000
prominent corner. We wanted to kind of
emphasize that. And while yes, we have a

1371
01:48:56,560 --> 01:49:05,679
lot of really good restaurants. Um what
we heard from some of the ones that have

1372
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:11,840
come and gone was a that you know we
didn't have enough brick traffic built

1373
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:17,440
in um but also b some of our restaurant
space is awkward to put it kindly okay

1374
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:23,760
and we've all been in there you know
what I mean so they have weird

1375
01:49:20,320 --> 01:49:28,880
stepups and ADA challenges and so this
is kind of I think a space for a larger

1376
01:49:26,800 --> 01:49:34,159
format restaurant that wouldn't
otherwise be able to come to Highland

1377
01:49:31,760 --> 01:49:37,280
Park. You know, hopefully more of a
funky mom and pop thing. And I know

1378
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:42,159
Brett has a lot of fun ideas about the
kind of ten that might go in there um to

1379
01:49:40,080 --> 01:49:48,080
complement what we've got, not to try
to, you know, and and

1380
01:49:45,520 --> 01:49:51,920
for some reason restaurants like High
Park. So, I think there is we are kind

1381
01:49:49,840 --> 01:49:55,520
of a restaurant destination. So I think
there is some rationale but it's a

1382
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:59,520
combination of having a nice outdoor
dining like I don't know about you but

1383
01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:03,199
when I'm looking for a place to go if
sometimes the first thing I think where

1384
01:50:00,719 --> 01:50:07,360
can I sit outside you know and there's
not a lot of options just because of our

1385
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:12,480
sidewalks and our our spaces are so
small. So this is an opportunity to put

1386
01:50:09,280 --> 01:50:16,320
a kind of destination uh restaurant uh
but so that's that's the theory. The

1387
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:20,960
theory is it rises all boats. We're not
doing this to poach business away from

1388
01:50:19,119 --> 01:50:27,040
other businesses in town. this is
supposed to make everybody do better.

1389
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:31,760
Um, and by adding in a new dimension to
what's already there. I hope I answered.

1390
01:50:28,880 --> 01:50:37,119
» Yeah. And if if this development does
well like with in terms of people coming

1391
01:50:34,719 --> 01:50:41,679
to rent, the businesses are doing well.
Would Highland Park consider doing this

1392
01:50:38,960 --> 01:50:45,520
to other spots of the downtown area?
>> Welcome to tract A. We'll talk about

1393
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:48,400
that another night. Yes, we have a lot
of ideas.

1394
01:50:47,520 --> 01:50:52,639
OF THIS ONE.
>> SO, we hope this will be the snowball

1395
01:50:50,480 --> 01:50:54,800
that starts the bigger snowball or
whatever that

1396
01:50:54,400 --> 01:50:59,040
is.
>> And then just last curiosity is um I

1397
01:50:57,440 --> 01:51:03,679
don't I don't know if it was mentioned
or not. Where where would the farmers

1398
01:51:02,159 --> 01:51:08,480
market move to? Would it be that
indooroutdoor space or is it So,

1399
01:51:07,040 --> 01:51:15,600
» I can't wait to get you on our mailing
list. Um, we're moving, we're building a

1400
01:51:12,320 --> 01:51:20,480
plaza here, like a closing south third
to foot traffic, I mean to cars, excuse

1401
01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:26,159
me. Opening it to people is what I'm
supposed to say. Um, expanding this this

1402
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:30,880
parking area, but also adding a lot of
function to this. Uh, so it's an

1403
01:51:28,639 --> 01:51:35,600
L-shape, but the just like we take over
a parking lot now on Fridays, the idea

1404
01:51:33,760 --> 01:51:41,119
is we'll take over this bigger parking
lot and this plaza on Fridays for the

1405
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:44,000
farmers market. So, we will it'll be
half a block away.

1406
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:46,960
» Okay.
>> Oh, yeah.

1407
01:51:45,119 --> 01:51:50,719
» There we go. So, that's the concept
rendering and we're literally in the

1408
01:51:49,119 --> 01:51:54,000
final stages of designing and
engineering and hopefully going out to

1409
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:57,119
bid in a few weeks so that we can
actually construct this.

1410
01:51:55,280 --> 01:52:00,719
» Okay. And then in the meantime while
construction is going on, are we holding

1411
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:04,639
the farmers market or is it just
>> We're trying to align that this will be

1412
01:52:02,239 --> 01:52:08,239
done before we need to be out but we
also have some plan B's we want to keep

1413
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:12,880
the market
we absolutely that is one of their our

1414
01:52:10,239 --> 01:52:16,960
downtown amenities for sure.
>> That's great. Thank you so much.

1415
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:23,599
» You made it to the line.
>> I only I didn't see them. Um I really

1416
01:52:20,800 --> 01:52:28,239
like I think the uh design is beautiful.
>> Oh, thank you. and better than I

1417
01:52:24,960 --> 01:52:36,400
expected. Um, I really do like the idea
of the covered up area to sit. Um, and I

1418
01:52:33,599 --> 01:52:41,199
wish that there were rendering up there
of what the apartments would look like.

1419
01:52:39,040 --> 01:52:45,119
I mean, they should know what they're
designing and it's not in there. So, I

1420
01:52:44,080 --> 01:52:46,800
don't know when that's going to be
>> You mean the interiors?

1421
01:52:46,400 --> 01:52:49,800
» Yes.
>> Gotcha.

1422
01:52:52,239 --> 01:52:57,199
» Maybe there's a place they can go visit.
Yeah. Do you have a

1423
01:52:55,599 --> 01:53:01,520
development that has similar units?
>> Yeah, we're we're just opening up the

1424
01:52:58,800 --> 01:53:05,520
angle. Go to our website and there's
there's many developments, but if you go

1425
01:53:03,520 --> 01:53:09,599
to garden communities.com,
you can see some of the newer products,

1426
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:15,360
» but you don't have
>> So, we're working on the interiors. Um,

1427
01:53:12,400 --> 01:53:20,000
I don't have like an interior elevation
I can show you, but they're going to be

1428
01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:27,159
it's going to be a luxury product. So
>> my sister's looking at so

1429
01:53:23,440 --> 01:53:27,159
that gives you a good flavor.

1430
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:30,840
» Hi.

1431
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:40,800
» Hello. Um,
I wanted to uh second um the the traffic

1432
01:53:39,280 --> 01:53:48,880
study
um or necessity for it. Um because as a

1433
01:53:46,080 --> 01:53:55,599
commuter I do have to deal with the
traffic very much.

1434
01:53:51,199 --> 01:54:03,920
um coming in from uh RI 18. And as some
of you know, it backs up quite far. And

1435
01:53:59,199 --> 01:54:11,440
uh with the new um
um apartments coming in, there will

1436
01:54:05,679 --> 01:54:15,920
definitely be more people in cars. Um
hopefully because of where we're

1437
01:54:13,119 --> 01:54:20,159
located, I mean, I hear you and I won't
disagree. There's going to be more

1438
01:54:17,360 --> 01:54:24,639
people physically there than not, but
the location is good. We have the bus

1439
01:54:22,800 --> 01:54:30,400
that somebody else raised, but we also
have walkability. I know that doesn't

1440
01:54:26,639 --> 01:54:34,000
help you, but we see this downtown
location, especially in light of some of

1441
01:54:32,480 --> 01:54:38,800
the commercial development going on in
New Brunswick now for the Helix project.

1442
01:54:37,119 --> 01:54:42,400
Hopefully, we see some people who maybe
want to walk to work but want to live in

1443
01:54:40,480 --> 01:54:46,000
Highland Park. But, but you're right.
Then they they will present their

1444
01:54:43,679 --> 01:54:49,599
numbers to the planning board.
>> And Terry mentioned we are looking at

1445
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:53,280
some transportation opportunities.
>> Yes. And mayor wanted to mention we are

1446
01:54:51,520 --> 01:55:00,360
also looking at other transportation
opportunities to help uh get people out

1447
01:54:56,239 --> 01:55:00,360
of their single occupancy vehicle.

1448
01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:06,480
» Uh and I don't know if this was
addressed yet, but I was wondering if

1449
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:11,840
there was an estimate to how long the
construction will take.

1450
01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:13,920
» Two years is what's in the agreement.
Yeah,

1451
01:55:12,480 --> 01:55:18,119
» they'll do it quicker, but that's
>> that but that's the outside gate.

1452
01:55:19,119 --> 01:55:28,280
» And um do you know which streets and
parking would be affected during

1453
01:55:25,280 --> 01:55:28,280
construction?

1454
01:55:30,639 --> 01:55:39,679
I mean,
>> Raritan Avenue for sure because and um

1455
01:55:36,239 --> 01:55:44,080
the but I don't know if we have the full
like logistical plan, but I think we're

1456
01:55:42,239 --> 01:55:47,280
trying to minimize disruption to on
street parking in the neighborhood.

1457
01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:52,800
Hopefully, they can do most of what they
need on the site itself. Um right,

1458
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:58,239
Brett,
>> it's a tight site. So, we're looking at

1459
01:55:55,360 --> 01:56:02,800
that. What's the most efficient?
>> I could see maybe them needing to

1460
01:56:00,239 --> 01:56:08,800
utilize the frontage and and you know,
we also have to keep access for the the

1461
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:13,199
you know, to the church's ADA entrance
as well. So, we're we're juggling a lot.

1462
01:56:10,960 --> 01:56:18,320
I mean, if if you live in the area, it
will likely be disruptive uh during the

1463
01:56:16,239 --> 01:56:22,679
till things settle in and rhythms
establish themselves. Um

1464
01:56:23,119 --> 01:56:34,560
um and I was wondering if there was um
efforts made to um

1465
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:37,800
reduce noise of air and water pollution
their construction

1466
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:46,239
our developer I mean we're following
noise ordinances.

1467
01:56:43,920 --> 01:56:50,000
» Yeah. We're sensitive to all that. I
mean, I don't know if anyone's here from

1468
01:56:48,480 --> 01:56:54,239
Walter
um when we're doing construction there.

1469
01:56:52,719 --> 01:56:57,280
» Step into the microphone.
>> Sorry. Yeah. No, I don't know if

1470
01:56:55,599 --> 01:57:02,719
anyone's here from Walter Avenue when
we're doing construction over there. I

1471
01:56:58,480 --> 01:57:08,320
know there was a lot of um unrest prior
to construction and I think everyone was

1472
01:57:05,599 --> 01:57:12,560
happy on the street as far as I know and
we're very sensitive and we're we're

1473
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:18,159
hands-on like I'm not here today and
then leave like we we don't hand off our

1474
01:57:16,159 --> 01:57:21,520
construction to a third party. We're
we're involved in every way with the

1475
01:57:20,320 --> 01:57:24,960
project. So
>> and there's a problem like

1476
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:28,159
» yeah let us know.
>> People got to know garden homes

1477
01:57:26,719 --> 01:57:31,360
directly. if you live in an adjacent
area, they'll give you their number if

1478
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:36,480
you have an issue. Um, you can always
contact me if you're having issues and

1479
01:57:33,119 --> 01:57:40,480
we'll try to address them. But again,
it's a tight site. We're we're working

1480
01:57:38,320 --> 01:57:44,400
in these these margins. You know, we're
going to have to all work together to to

1481
01:57:42,960 --> 01:57:48,159
get through it.
>> And I I can say that River Road, that

1482
01:57:46,560 --> 01:57:52,080
was certainly the case when we were
building River Road, there was a lot of

1483
01:57:50,159 --> 01:57:56,000
worry about the construction debris and
constru all the things that were going

1484
01:57:53,280 --> 01:57:59,520
on. And Garden Homeless is incredibly
accessible to all of the neighbors to

1485
01:57:57,760 --> 01:58:03,920
say, "You got a problem? Give me a
call." And they fix the problem right

1486
01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:06,080
away. So, we do work very closely with
neighbors to make sure

1487
01:58:04,639 --> 01:58:10,159
» because we have the church right there.
I mean, really, you know, in there. So,

1488
01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:15,599
we're going to have to to m you manage
that.

1489
01:58:12,239 --> 01:58:22,080
» That's good to hear. Um, and last
question. Uh I was wondering if there

1490
01:58:18,400 --> 01:58:29,000
was uh an effort to match the historical
character of art with the design of I

1491
01:58:25,599 --> 01:58:29,000
guess the architecture.

1492
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:36,080
» That's right.
>> Absolutely.

1493
01:58:32,159 --> 01:58:36,080
» You got to be same rule applies to you.

1494
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:43,199
Um, so one of the when we were talking
about the design, this walkway through

1495
01:58:41,199 --> 01:58:46,560
here, this walk right there, one of the
things we talked a lot about was that's

1496
01:58:44,639 --> 01:58:50,719
a characteristics of the walkways on the
north side, the ones that go in between

1497
01:58:49,040 --> 01:58:55,840
um, you know, the catwalks, the catwalks
that are up and down. We want we those

1498
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:59,199
those are a version of catwalks to tie
into the rest of of Highland Park. We

1499
01:58:57,679 --> 01:59:02,960
thought that was a really neat amenity.
That was just one that jumped to my

1500
01:59:00,639 --> 01:59:07,520
mind. This is going to be like a place
where people can walk through from

1501
01:59:04,560 --> 01:59:12,480
Raritton down to Magnolia just like in
many places um you know uh on the north

1502
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:16,800
side you can walk between the streets
right and so we wanted to make an homage

1503
01:59:14,239 --> 01:59:21,679
to sort of that. Um the other thing is
that

1504
01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:26,239
unlike many different places um as Terry
mentioned it's not one monolith all the

1505
01:59:24,159 --> 01:59:30,719
way across. It doesn't all the way from
across doesn't look like one thing. It

1506
01:59:28,800 --> 01:59:34,800
looks like five different things, right?
>> They look like New York brownstone.

1507
01:59:32,560 --> 01:59:37,599
» So, you have you have things that look
like this. You have others that look

1508
01:59:36,080 --> 01:59:41,040
more like the traditional apartment. You
have this right here. So, it breaks it

1509
01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:45,199
up. And one of the things that we were
really intent on is that we didn't want

1510
01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:51,119
to have something that looked like this
massive um uh institutional like

1511
01:59:48,159 --> 01:59:54,480
building, right? Um which one of the
people that that um bid on this, that's

1512
01:59:53,520 --> 01:59:59,760
what they were going to build, right?
And so we like the idea that there is

1513
01:59:56,719 --> 02:00:03,599
some diversity within the um uh within
the project. So it looks like five

1514
02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:09,960
different things rather than one big
thing. And we thought that was um

1515
02:00:05,520 --> 02:00:09,960
characteristic of Island Park as well.

1516
02:00:10,159 --> 02:00:16,480
» And and I would also just challenge you
to articulate what our architectural

1517
02:00:14,719 --> 02:00:20,639
character of Highland Park is. I think
it's a very difficult uh question to

1518
02:00:19,360 --> 02:00:24,880
answer because it kind of depends on
what era and what your personal taste.

1519
02:00:22,960 --> 02:00:29,840
So I think we tried to strike a balance
between typologies and just the massing

1520
02:00:27,840 --> 02:00:34,639
was what I guess I felt the most
passionate about was not having that

1521
02:00:32,000 --> 02:00:39,440
kachchunk feel that the streetscape
varies. Those were things that we even

1522
02:00:36,719 --> 02:00:46,800
put in the redevelopment plan you know
early days because we knew you know that

1523
02:00:42,639 --> 02:00:49,960
was something that we had to manage.
>> Thank you.

1524
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:59,119
» Hi Alan. Hello, I'm Alan Williams, uh,
president of Highland Park, also on the

1525
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:07,360
environmental commission planning board,
but this is me as a resident. The

1526
02:01:04,159 --> 02:01:13,679
you've taken away roughly 40 parking
spaces from the parking lot by the by

1527
02:01:11,119 --> 02:01:17,840
the uh church.
It's got to have a m Yes.

1528
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:25,679
» What do you mean taken away? There are
only 30 plenty of them which if you come

1529
02:01:22,239 --> 02:01:30,800
it's either 31 or 40 lots that are
spaces that are left.

1530
02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:36,880
» Okay. And that has a major impact on the
church and all the organizations that

1531
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:43,360
use the church. And I mean it's bad
right now with

1532
02:01:39,280 --> 02:01:48,400
uh traffic or parking spaces on uh South
Second and where's the where's the

1533
02:01:46,080 --> 02:01:51,840
borrow going to do about that?
>> Well, I'll tell you during construction

1534
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:56,480
it'll be a challenge. Yes.
>> But but what we did was it wasn't by

1535
02:01:54,639 --> 02:02:01,440
accident. Oh, just for a farmers market,
we're expanding the parking lot on South

1536
02:01:58,639 --> 02:02:06,800
Third, a half a block away, we've added
public spaces. So, the idea is, you

1537
02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:11,599
know, those same individuals who have
utilized the full parking lot, you know,

1538
02:02:09,199 --> 02:02:15,440
during once we're fully up and running,
we should be able to I don't have all

1539
02:02:14,159 --> 02:02:20,000
the numbers handy between the two
projects, Alan, but okay. But we're

1540
02:02:17,440 --> 02:02:27,679
offsetting some of the surface lot that
is now being uh developed uh with our

1541
02:02:24,320 --> 02:02:32,080
own public parking over here and it will
be public just like this was public.

1542
02:02:29,840 --> 02:02:36,880
It's just not quite adjacent to the
church but it is a

1543
02:02:34,800 --> 02:02:40,960
» and that was one of the reasons having
you know the the two ways in and out and

1544
02:02:39,119 --> 02:02:45,760
all that stuff. And like I mentioned
too, there'll be more on street

1545
02:02:43,679 --> 02:02:50,400
available because we've opened up or
closed those curb cuts. So we can

1546
02:02:47,679 --> 02:02:54,880
rejigger the on street parking on Ritton
to add some and none of those numbers

1547
02:02:52,560 --> 02:03:01,280
included spots on Ritton.
>> Okay. Has the church again. Has the

1548
02:02:57,840 --> 02:03:09,760
borrow considered trying to lease the
Baptist church parking lot on Dennis and

1549
02:03:06,960 --> 02:03:14,320
» we have had that thought many times and
had attempted communications

1550
02:03:12,080 --> 02:03:16,960
periodically to different degrees of
effect.

1551
02:03:14,880 --> 02:03:22,560
» Okay.
>> And one question for Mr. Johnson, you

1552
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:26,800
can have washer and dryers in the
individual units.

1553
02:03:23,920 --> 02:03:31,040
» Yes, of course. washers and dryers in
the individual units. Yes.

1554
02:03:29,599 --> 02:03:33,040
» Just for those who couldn't hear the
answer.

1555
02:03:31,840 --> 02:03:35,599
» Council member Hershe, you had a
question or

1556
02:03:34,239 --> 02:03:39,159
» I just had a comment. No, thank you,
Mayor. Nothing's

1557
02:03:39,599 --> 02:03:45,679
» Thank you. Um, I want to just I I did
just want to acknowledge the comment uh

1558
02:03:43,679 --> 02:03:51,360
regarding
uh regarding the the historical nature

1559
02:03:47,599 --> 02:03:56,800
of Highland Park. Yes, sorry. Um, it's
it was and I am by no means taking

1560
02:03:54,960 --> 02:04:01,920
ownership or agency over this, but but
it but that's it was super important to

1561
02:03:58,639 --> 02:04:06,159
the council to take into historic
nature, how the town was developed. Um,

1562
02:04:04,960 --> 02:04:10,080
you know, I mean, we have such an
assortment of Cape Cods, colonials,

1563
02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:14,080
split levels, garden apartments,
apartment buildings in in Highland Park,

1564
02:04:12,159 --> 02:04:18,639
but it's really exciting the diversity
of buildings, and that really was the

1565
02:04:15,599 --> 02:04:24,080
impetus to to to give the appearance of
a of of a more diverse looking

1566
02:04:21,360 --> 02:04:27,760
structure. Um I did just want to also
just mention um you know a couple years

1567
02:04:25,760 --> 02:04:32,800
ago when I was leazison to the uh to the
historical commission uh we we uh we we

1568
02:04:31,040 --> 02:04:37,920
received a grant uh that that actually
did a survey of all the properties in

1569
02:04:34,719 --> 02:04:42,800
the avenue uh to examine their their
history. Um none is designated historic

1570
02:04:40,719 --> 02:04:47,040
or lives up to that standard. But the
history is really important and I and I

1571
02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:51,199
and and I'm I think we're all really
sensitive to that. I will note though

1572
02:04:48,960 --> 02:04:55,119
that our history, one thing that that
study revealed,

1573
02:04:53,119 --> 02:05:01,199
one thing that that study revealed was
that our history really is an automobile

1574
02:04:57,920 --> 02:05:05,599
corridor uh that connects, you know, uh
New Brunswick to the world uh and the

1575
02:05:03,679 --> 02:05:09,679
other way around. We didn't have a
planned public square. We didn't have

1576
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:14,320
the things that other towns might have.
And you know, it's just one spine of the

1577
02:05:11,920 --> 02:05:19,280
state highway. So this really presented
a huge opportunity to create new

1578
02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:23,760
history, create public spaces where, you
know, our community really can come

1579
02:05:20,800 --> 02:05:29,119
together, you know, in a in in in a you
know, in in in a way that they can 365

1580
02:05:26,320 --> 02:05:33,360
days a year. Uh so so so that was really
important. But the diversity in the in

1581
02:05:31,360 --> 02:05:39,199
in the design, the walkthrough like
Councilman Hail mentioned, um uh uh and

1582
02:05:36,560 --> 02:05:42,159
then creating new history uh is is is
essential. But I did just want to

1583
02:05:40,480 --> 02:05:46,800
mention that that that was really a
sensitive issue for for the council and

1584
02:05:44,719 --> 02:05:51,000
in our consideration for sure and it
will continue to be. Yeah. Thanks.

1585
02:05:52,719 --> 02:05:59,280
» Good evening. I had three questions. At
the outset of this project, Mayor Foster

1586
02:05:57,840 --> 02:06:03,679
had promised that the town would not
move forward until an equally suitable

1587
02:06:01,760 --> 02:06:07,520
or better permanent location for the
existing farmers market had been fully

1588
02:06:05,280 --> 02:06:12,080
developed and completed. Is the mayor
and council willing to assure us tonight

1589
02:06:10,480 --> 02:06:15,840
that you are going to honor that
commitment and that the farmers market

1590
02:06:14,239 --> 02:06:19,840
will have an adequate or better
permanent location in place before the

1591
02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:24,080
four existing publicly owned lots are
sold to the developer.

1592
02:06:22,560 --> 02:06:26,239
» Why don't you allow your question?
>> Okay.

1593
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:30,159
» It was also said at the beginning of
this that the council was being

1594
02:06:27,920 --> 02:06:34,000
considerate of the tremendous liability
that the developer had taken on by

1595
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:38,880
purchasing those properties on Rickton
Avenue. Are you also considering the

1596
02:06:36,480 --> 02:06:43,199
tremendous liability that every single
homeowner in Highland Park has in the

1597
02:06:41,199 --> 02:06:47,119
properties that they have purchased in
this town? I mean, that's my single

1598
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:52,560
largest investment right now as my
house. Uh, for the developer, those four

1599
02:06:49,440 --> 02:06:57,280
properties are probably nowhere near as
significant as they are to me. So, every

1600
02:06:55,119 --> 02:07:02,719
action that you take tonight has to
balance not only the developer's

1601
02:06:59,679 --> 02:07:07,440
interest, but the liability that every
single homeowner has and renter has in

1602
02:07:05,679 --> 02:07:14,960
this town when you develop this
property. You're putting in a load of

1603
02:07:11,119 --> 02:07:21,679
housing, uh, a little bit of public,
>> right, and one restaurant. And it just

1604
02:07:19,119 --> 02:07:28,239
seems like you're ignoring a lot of the
development practices and ideas that

1605
02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:35,440
came in early on. And then uh my
now I can't try to grab my third point.

1606
02:07:31,920 --> 02:07:39,440
» They always come in threes.
>> It's late for me.

1607
02:07:36,480 --> 02:07:43,280
» How about I start? I'll I'll and then uh
I'll take a stab at a couple. I don't

1608
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:47,440
want to speak for the mayor and the
governing body on your first question.

1609
02:07:44,719 --> 02:07:52,960
That's not appropriate for me. Um, but I
because I've been working very hard on

1610
02:07:50,639 --> 02:07:56,480
the new plaza on South Third, I could
speak to the fact that we're trying to

1611
02:07:54,239 --> 02:08:02,079
move heaven and earth to get it open and
ready. But, you know, I know, you know,

1612
02:07:59,679 --> 02:08:08,400
contracting in life, it doesn't always
jive. So, will they

1613
02:08:05,599 --> 02:08:12,800
exactly line up? I don't know. But, we
are, I believe, committed to making sure

1614
02:08:10,400 --> 02:08:18,239
the market has a place to operate. Um,
maybe not on February 1st. we might ask

1615
02:08:14,719 --> 02:08:23,360
for a more of a spring start date. Um
but that we will have these these

1616
02:08:20,639 --> 02:08:29,040
projects will come together uh nicely.
We just you know I'll let others speak

1617
02:08:25,199 --> 02:08:34,639
to you know do we want to delay you know
a developer who's interested and ready

1618
02:08:31,040 --> 02:08:39,280
to invest this kind of money in our town
for three more months or just you know

1619
02:08:37,760 --> 02:08:42,960
inconvenience the market for a couple
months. I think that's the trade-off

1620
02:08:40,639 --> 02:08:47,679
that we're looking at. We are hoping we
don't have to make that trade-off and we

1621
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:53,280
can get it all to line up perfectly. Um,
and then I'm not sure I totally

1622
02:08:50,719 --> 02:08:59,280
understand the liability. I mean, I I
can attest to the fact that we did our

1623
02:08:56,239 --> 02:09:03,040
absolute best to make sure the burrow
and as your representatives in this

1624
02:09:01,360 --> 02:09:07,599
negotiation
got everything we wanted out of this

1625
02:09:05,280 --> 02:09:11,760
project. Um, and we thought that the
community had asked for. Um, and we

1626
02:09:09,920 --> 02:09:16,079
thought we, you know, when we've kind of
already expressed a lot of the kind of

1627
02:09:13,920 --> 02:09:21,520
pieces of the deal and we feel really
good about where it came out and we take

1628
02:09:19,040 --> 02:09:26,639
very seriously our roles as kind of
protecting the public interest in this

1629
02:09:23,679 --> 02:09:32,320
deal. Um, and I too own a house here and
it is my single uh point of as do I

1630
02:09:30,320 --> 02:09:36,480
believe every member of the council in
some way or shape.

1631
02:09:33,679 --> 02:09:41,280
» Oh, sorry. Sorry, I forgot. But even the
renters have invested in your your

1632
02:09:38,400 --> 02:09:44,800
message. So I I take it seriously. I
mean, you know, we we will never know

1633
02:09:43,119 --> 02:09:50,320
because we have squeezed a little more
out, but we really feel like we got our

1634
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:54,040
high priority items addressed in in this
project. And I think Mar

1635
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:04,239
to answer your question about our
commitment to making sure that the

1636
02:10:02,079 --> 02:10:07,840
farmers market have a home. We're still
committed to that that the farmer

1637
02:10:05,679 --> 02:10:12,960
farmers market will have a home.
However, we have seen the weather that

1638
02:10:10,320 --> 02:10:17,599
we've had this past winter and
construction does not go on in that kind

1639
02:10:16,000 --> 02:10:22,079
of weather and we're hoping that we will
not have that kind of weather. But if we

1640
02:10:19,520 --> 02:10:26,400
do and there's inclement weather where
the work cannot be completed, it it will

1641
02:10:24,719 --> 02:10:30,320
take a step back because we'll have to
stop doing construction and what have

1642
02:10:28,320 --> 02:10:34,719
you. But I can assure you that the
farmers market will have a home in which

1643
02:10:32,800 --> 02:10:38,079
to operate.
>> Thank you.

1644
02:10:36,400 --> 02:10:43,040
I thought of my third question too.
>> I see bought you some time.

1645
02:10:40,000 --> 02:10:47,199
» The um right now you said earlier that
um it wasn't so much about closing south

1646
02:10:45,440 --> 02:10:51,520
third to cars but opening it to the
public. I I fully believe that all

1647
02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:55,679
streets are already open to the public.
We get to use them however we want and

1648
02:10:53,280 --> 02:11:02,159
we just kind of prioritize cars on them.
But if you already have permission from

1649
02:10:57,679 --> 02:11:06,400
the DOT for the last year and a half to
close that street to cars and open it to

1650
02:11:04,400 --> 02:11:11,360
the public, why haven't you done so?
>> Well, we have a permit, but it requires

1651
02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:16,960
a lot of intersection improvements. Like
we don't get it unless we do all the

1652
02:11:13,920 --> 02:11:22,800
things in that space. the ballards, the
the signalized intersection, all of that

1653
02:11:20,000 --> 02:11:27,599
work is built is getting built into
arterials design work for the plaza and

1654
02:11:25,599 --> 02:11:34,159
will get rolled out and phased in
together. So, they didn't approve

1655
02:11:30,880 --> 02:11:39,040
putting up concrete barriers and closing
the road whenever we want. They approved

1656
02:11:36,320 --> 02:11:45,920
a very specific method of closure
inclusive of improvements to all those

1657
02:11:42,000 --> 02:11:50,079
signals on do on DOT property which is
not going to be free. We're going to

1658
02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:54,480
have to pay for that. So we felt it
would be better to just incorporate it

1659
02:11:52,079 --> 02:11:59,679
so that we the phasing all works out so
when the pro projects ready to roll out

1660
02:11:56,800 --> 02:12:04,639
we're we're good to go. Um and so that's
the answer. Yes, we have the approval to

1661
02:12:02,159 --> 02:12:07,360
close it, but there's very specific way
we must close it.

1662
02:12:05,920 --> 02:12:10,960
» Thank you.
>> And also speak about the underground

1663
02:12:09,199 --> 02:12:15,920
infrastructure that you know we have to
get done.

1664
02:12:11,920 --> 02:12:20,239
» Yes. Um on on South Third in advance of
the plaza construction. We are a couple

1665
02:12:18,320 --> 02:12:24,000
weeks away. I apologize. Now, if you
live on South Third, we will be But the

1666
02:12:22,400 --> 02:12:28,560
good news is we're replacing your water
man and cleaning and lining the sewer on

1667
02:12:26,639 --> 02:12:34,079
South Third well before we build this
plaza because the last thing we want is

1668
02:12:30,800 --> 02:12:38,800
a problem that requires opening up the
pedestrian plaza for repairs. So, that's

1669
02:12:37,199 --> 02:12:42,320
going within the next two weeks. We've
already awarded that contract and that's

1670
02:12:40,320 --> 02:12:46,639
going to be rolling. Demolition of the
two houses will follow the ones on

1671
02:12:44,400 --> 02:12:51,920
either side of our existing parking lot.
Um we're just synchronizing those

1672
02:12:48,560 --> 02:12:56,480
efforts. So um a lot of balls in the air
and the thought of doing temporary

1673
02:12:54,320 --> 02:13:03,679
weekend closures or a permanent Yeah. We
just said we got to just do this as with

1674
02:12:59,360 --> 02:13:07,840
one contractor in one one face.
>> All right. I think we're done with in

1675
02:13:05,840 --> 02:13:10,719
person. I should check on the Zoom with
your permission.

1676
02:13:08,719 --> 02:13:14,880
» Uh yes, please. If there's anyone on
Zoom with any question,

1677
02:13:13,440 --> 02:13:19,920
your hands up. Is it you?
>> I'll put it down. Thank you.

1678
02:13:16,880 --> 02:13:23,679
» We just want to note it's 9:15 and we we
want to conclude in another 15 minutes

1679
02:13:22,079 --> 02:13:28,800
or so to wrap everything up.
>> So, we're going to be wrapping in 15. Um

1680
02:13:26,639 --> 02:13:33,679
I mentioned at the top, but for those of
you who came in late, these slides will

1681
02:13:30,719 --> 02:13:39,520
be up on our website tomorrow. Um once
we get the video uh up downloaded, we

1682
02:13:37,280 --> 02:13:45,440
will upload it to our YouTube channel.
So we will have um that those materials

1683
02:13:42,880 --> 02:13:50,320
available to you uh to look at in more
detail.

1684
02:13:47,119 --> 02:13:58,560
» We have one more. Hi. Hi. Um I just
wanted to confirm or clarify what I saw

1685
02:13:53,920 --> 02:14:03,040
the timeline um slide but the next step
didn't have an a date. So

1686
02:14:01,199 --> 02:14:05,599
» which which I had two timeline sites.
I'll go to the first one.

1687
02:14:04,480 --> 02:14:10,480
» Yeah.
>> This one. Uh no

1688
02:14:08,480 --> 02:14:14,320
that there are a lot of the latter
timeline is contingent upon certain

1689
02:14:13,040 --> 02:14:18,239
things happening so there aren't
specific

1690
02:14:15,119 --> 02:14:21,119
» I guess my question is I know there's I
believe there's a council meeting next

1691
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:24,000
week is that correct?
>> Yes.

1692
02:14:21,599 --> 02:14:28,800
» So what is the is there going to be
action taken on this all that council

1693
02:14:26,719 --> 02:14:35,440
meeting? the the current plan is that
the redevelopment agreement which was

1694
02:14:31,119 --> 02:14:40,719
not the the money deal but the kind of
who get what who is what we're getting

1695
02:14:38,159 --> 02:14:45,679
community benefits what the the
developers committed to those terms that

1696
02:14:43,119 --> 02:14:53,119
Joe presented in the first half of his
remarks we have that pretty well fleshed

1697
02:14:49,199 --> 02:14:57,840
out and intend to authorize execution of
that redevelopment agreement at the next

1698
02:14:55,599 --> 02:15:02,079
meeting with the mayor's permission and
the council support. It's not done yet,

1699
02:14:59,520 --> 02:15:07,520
but it will likely be on the agenda. Um
the financial agreement we we're still

1700
02:15:05,199 --> 02:15:11,599
like reading through and making sure
there's no mistakes, but we feel like we

1701
02:15:09,679 --> 02:15:15,840
have the terms as you heard earlier
really well ironed out. So it could be

1702
02:15:13,520 --> 02:15:22,800
as soon as October, the first meeting in
October that introduced along with this

1703
02:15:18,800 --> 02:15:27,440
purchase and sale agreement uh event. So
the effective date I is is the date of

1704
02:15:25,520 --> 02:15:28,320
signature Joe on the red development
agreement.

1705
02:15:27,840 --> 02:15:34,079
» Yeah.
>> So once we execute that agreement a lot

1706
02:15:31,440 --> 02:15:38,719
of this stuff flows but a big one here
is you know you know I don't know all of

1707
02:15:37,360 --> 02:15:43,520
Brett's I would love to know all the
things but DOT is in there probably

1708
02:15:41,599 --> 02:15:49,760
county there's probably some some other
it's not just burrow approvals there are

1709
02:15:46,400 --> 02:15:55,199
other levels. um this is uh going to be
for storm water uh a major disturbance

1710
02:15:52,960 --> 02:15:58,880
or whatever. It's a higher tier storm
water review that goes on and has to

1711
02:15:56,960 --> 02:16:02,560
have a permit. So there's there's some
additional stuff which they've been

1712
02:16:00,079 --> 02:16:07,440
working on. So we hope it's not 12
months but you know that's that's it. So

1713
02:16:05,440 --> 02:16:11,760
then once we've got you know
commencement basically once they start

1714
02:16:09,280 --> 02:16:15,119
construction they got two years.
>> And my last question is will these

1715
02:16:13,119 --> 02:16:18,719
slides be posted online after the
meeting? I thought I said that. Yes.

1716
02:16:16,800 --> 02:16:23,280
Sorry. Yes. So, the slide deck will be
there, the video will be there, um, and

1717
02:16:21,520 --> 02:16:29,520
our contact information is also there
for any other questions that come up.

1718
02:16:27,119 --> 02:16:33,840
» Very quick, just understanding what you
said before and understanding that the

1719
02:16:31,760 --> 02:16:38,479
harshness of the winter, etc., I really
do think that

1720
02:16:35,840 --> 02:16:43,519
delaying the developer
in line with a valued community asset

1721
02:16:41,280 --> 02:16:47,439
like the farmers market is would be
acceptable to our community.

1722
02:16:45,359 --> 02:16:52,479
» Okay.
to share.

1723
02:16:48,399 --> 02:16:54,800
» Um, oh, we got All right. Did you know
the time was there? I didn't know.

1724
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:57,200
» Yes, I did. All right.
>> We start at 9:15. We're ended in 10

1725
02:16:56,800 --> 02:17:00,000
minutes.
>> Okay.

1726
02:16:58,639 --> 02:17:02,719
» Um, other people online that haven't
gone yet.

1727
02:17:00,399 --> 02:17:05,960
» Uh, your hands up at home. Raise your
hand now.

1728
02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:17,920
» We have no hands up. So I I understand
heard the clear, you know, you said it's

1729
02:17:15,519 --> 02:17:22,559
late in the process and that it would be
really inconvenient bordering on, you

1730
02:17:20,080 --> 02:17:27,599
know, pulling your hair out sort of like
to to change at this point. And I I try

1731
02:17:26,160 --> 02:17:33,040
not to be a stick in the mud, but it is
like a once in a generation land

1732
02:17:29,519 --> 02:17:37,120
assembly opportunity that's not easily
recaptured. And you know, I think even

1733
02:17:35,679 --> 02:17:42,319
though it's late, it's not legally
impossible. And I think those at the p

1734
02:17:39,840 --> 02:17:45,359
dollar pickers that are being, you know,
exchanged in this kind of development,

1735
02:17:43,840 --> 02:17:48,639
those houses are for sale.
>> Oh, you're talking about I'm sorry. I

1736
02:17:46,800 --> 02:17:52,479
thought I'm talking about I'm talking
about acquisition of the

1737
02:17:50,000 --> 02:17:57,599
» We I don't look I would be happy to talk
with the governing body about phase two.

1738
02:17:55,359 --> 02:18:01,519
» You know, I there's no money for phase
two.

1739
02:17:59,120 --> 02:18:06,639
Well, if we get some redevelopment going
on, as opposed to I I understand

1740
02:18:04,399 --> 02:18:10,880
» I'm talking about swapping out the
community benefit of the plaza,

1741
02:18:09,040 --> 02:18:16,160
» the 6,000 ft of open
>> that I don't think is is is something we

1742
02:18:13,439 --> 02:18:20,960
we could talk about.
>> I I and I think another point

1743
02:18:19,280 --> 02:18:25,040
» I was talking about pulling my hair out
about the indoor outdoor cover and the

1744
02:18:23,519 --> 02:18:28,800
design building.
>> Well, I again the that's the major

1745
02:18:27,280 --> 02:18:33,359
community benefit. Mhm.
>> Um so in terms of what we're getting

1746
02:18:30,639 --> 02:18:39,439
that has an assigned negotiating value
or assignable negotiating value, that's

1747
02:18:36,000 --> 02:18:45,599
it. Um it's comparable in size and value
to some, you know, one or both of those

1748
02:18:42,399 --> 02:18:50,160
properties that are next to the Burough
Square development. And land assemblage

1749
02:18:47,920 --> 02:18:53,920
is really key. It's not easy to do. Um
we're not going to have a lot of

1750
02:18:51,200 --> 02:18:59,599
opportunities to get, you know, another
$2 million to put into something like

1751
02:18:56,000 --> 02:19:03,519
that. Um, so you know, and you mentioned
maybe in 30 years or 50 years.

1752
02:19:01,679 --> 02:19:07,920
» You misunderstood me. You totally
misunderstood me. I'll clarify my point.

1753
02:19:05,359 --> 02:19:13,359
» Okay. So, give me one second. The
>> what I was referring to was this space

1754
02:19:10,880 --> 02:19:18,319
in in the in the building which you had
questioned which I understand your

1755
02:19:15,439 --> 02:19:24,399
reasoning is couldn't we give that up
and reinvest whatever

1756
02:19:21,519 --> 02:19:31,200
which which I and I think we can look at
both. We do we have a history in town of

1757
02:19:27,679 --> 02:19:35,519
making investments in acquisitions.
I I could talk all night. We talk about

1758
02:19:33,120 --> 02:19:41,679
tract A where we've done a lot of that.
Um this council has been very aggressive

1759
02:19:39,200 --> 02:19:46,880
where appropriate, but I think we felt
we there was also a considerable amount

1760
02:19:43,679 --> 02:19:53,120
of pressure to get this done so that we
could have a place for core functions. I

1761
02:19:51,120 --> 02:19:58,319
see no reason why this couldn't be a
secondary phase of the bus. And that's

1762
02:19:55,600 --> 02:20:03,439
how I I we got that feedback at our
community meeting on the plaza and that

1763
02:20:01,840 --> 02:20:06,960
was kind of where the governing body
landed on it.

1764
02:20:04,560 --> 02:20:11,359
» Uh but I have a member of the governing
body right next to me.

1765
02:20:08,560 --> 02:20:16,800
» So throughout this entire process the
indoor outdoor covered space over there

1766
02:20:13,920 --> 02:20:20,800
the the the public space that is in this
>> in my estimation was the number one

1767
02:20:19,120 --> 02:20:24,399
priority that we heard from people that
they wanted that

1768
02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:27,840
» by far. It was the number one. It was
number one from Main Street. It was

1769
02:20:25,840 --> 02:20:31,600
number one from It was number one from
many many entities that said we need to

1770
02:20:29,840 --> 02:20:36,640
have what public space are we going to
have a flexible public space. We reacted

1771
02:20:34,399 --> 02:20:44,319
to that. We have addressed that. We have
done that. And so in the entire process

1772
02:20:41,120 --> 02:20:49,200
that was something that we heard loud
and clear that that was what people

1773
02:20:46,160 --> 02:20:52,800
wanted a part of what people secondly
both the house where the little yellow

1774
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:56,960
brick road and the one in the other side
of that we bought

1775
02:20:54,720 --> 02:21:03,359
» we went out and we acquired those
>> brav thank you we have a history I think

1776
02:21:00,479 --> 02:21:08,319
of acquiring property when we see a plan
and a way to do this right so as Terry

1777
02:21:06,080 --> 02:21:13,760
said I I I think we certainly can think
of those as additional acquisitions.

1778
02:21:11,680 --> 02:21:21,920
But what I'm what I'm trying to convey
is that as of now, as of this process,

1779
02:21:18,960 --> 02:21:26,240
that indooroutdoor community space plus
the space over on Burough Square was

1780
02:21:24,720 --> 02:21:29,840
probably the most important thing that
we kept hearing again and again and

1781
02:21:28,160 --> 02:21:33,280
again from people that this was
fundamental that we had to get something

1782
02:21:31,840 --> 02:21:37,680
like this. We had to get something else.
>> I have an interpretation. Okay. And as

1783
02:21:35,680 --> 02:21:43,680
someone who does like survey work and
you know public process

1784
02:21:39,920 --> 02:21:47,920
um I understand how these things go. My
interpretation of it is that when this

1785
02:21:45,920 --> 02:21:51,280
development was first announced people
were very concerned about losing a

1786
02:21:49,439 --> 02:21:56,000
farmers market and they wanted public
space. Excuse they were focused on that

1787
02:21:54,240 --> 02:21:59,520
spot. They weren't really oriented
around the fact or the reality or the

1788
02:21:57,600 --> 02:22:03,200
possibility or trusting anyone that
would get some other public space

1789
02:22:01,200 --> 02:22:06,880
somewhere else.
No one was ever presented with the idea

1790
02:22:05,200 --> 02:22:13,680
or the choice between would you rather
have a smallish space as a plaza here or

1791
02:22:10,399 --> 02:22:16,720
a really big proper like square which is
the would have been a proper way to

1792
02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:22,080
frame that and if it was presented as a
choice would you rather have this or

1793
02:22:18,560 --> 02:22:25,520
that um I'm not going to presuppose the
answers you would have gotten but I

1794
02:22:23,439 --> 02:22:31,200
think they would have been different so
um I I discount quite a bit the you know

1795
02:22:29,600 --> 02:22:35,439
claim that that's what the public wanted
the public was given

1796
02:22:32,479 --> 02:22:39,280
a finite set of choices that shapes the
response. And I'm not saying it was

1797
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:43,680
malicious. It's just sort of like the
momentum of the process and the way it

1798
02:22:40,880 --> 02:22:47,600
evolves. Um,
which doesn't change whether or not this

1799
02:22:45,200 --> 02:22:53,040
is feasible to change at this point. But
I do think, you know, and and how Park's

1800
02:22:50,399 --> 02:22:57,760
budget coming up with two million bucks
to buy to acquire two new properties,

1801
02:22:55,439 --> 02:23:00,560
it's tough. It's tough. and the value of
that indoor outdoor space, especially

1802
02:22:59,439 --> 02:23:05,040
given the fact that you could turn that
into apartments or commercial space for

1803
02:23:02,720 --> 02:23:09,520
the next hundred years. That's a lot of
that's a lot of resources to invest into

1804
02:23:07,920 --> 02:23:13,280
that thing. That's the main community
benefit other than development itself,

1805
02:23:11,359 --> 02:23:17,920
which obviously is huge, but that's the
main community benefit that we're

1806
02:23:14,479 --> 02:23:21,439
getting. So, I mean, and we only get one
and I hear what you're saying that we

1807
02:23:19,280 --> 02:23:24,479
can get it in another phase, but like
how are we going to come up with two

1808
02:23:22,560 --> 02:23:30,479
million bucks in our little town? So,
that's why I'm a little fixated on it.

1809
02:23:26,640 --> 02:23:35,520
Let let me suggest that um this is not
the only opportunity. So as you

1810
02:23:32,880 --> 02:23:41,920
described that's a significant asset
worth money. Um you can envision a time

1811
02:23:39,200 --> 02:23:45,040
20 years from now where we'd come to
Brett and we say you know what we're not

1812
02:23:44,000 --> 02:23:46,960
really using this space.
>> I don't want to envision 20 years from

1813
02:23:46,479 --> 02:23:51,359
now.
>> My point is 25 years.

1814
02:23:48,880 --> 02:23:55,600
» Brett what would you do to if we want
you want to buy it back from us right

1815
02:23:53,120 --> 02:23:58,960
now? We have it for for 100 years at a
dollar. It's worth a lot more than that

1816
02:23:57,200 --> 02:24:04,240
to you. You could envision a
possibility. I'm I'm challenging the

1817
02:24:00,720 --> 02:24:06,319
point that once we do this, it can never
we could never monetize it.

1818
02:24:05,680 --> 02:24:08,720
» I understand.
>> I think we can monetize it.

1819
02:24:07,359 --> 02:24:12,640
» I think you partially, you know, backed
up my point because you're like in 20

1820
02:24:10,160 --> 02:24:15,600
years like, well, that would to me not
what I'm looking at.

1821
02:24:13,760 --> 02:24:19,439
» And and I also want to note that that's
a benefit to the developer. I mean, it's

1822
02:24:17,200 --> 02:24:23,120
an amenity for his building that his
residents get to share provides an

1823
02:24:21,040 --> 02:24:29,120
aesthetic to the building, but one that
he's not having to compromise more more

1824
02:24:25,600 --> 02:24:32,560
units for. Um, he's, you know, because
that's checking the ledger for his

1825
02:24:30,720 --> 02:24:37,280
community benefits.
No, no offense, but you know, um,

1826
02:24:36,240 --> 02:24:41,040
so again,
>> the only other point is the other

1827
02:24:38,399 --> 02:24:43,520
property is not for sale.
>> I'm sure they have a

1828
02:24:42,000 --> 02:24:46,319
» that takes years and years, too.
>> I'm sure they have a price. I don't know

1829
02:24:44,720 --> 02:24:50,000
if they have, you know, a family burial
ground in the backyard.

1830
02:24:47,760 --> 02:24:54,960
» I'm going down around I I go I could
talk forever about the plaza. The one

1831
02:24:53,040 --> 02:24:59,040
thing I want to mention because we did
look at that was a feedback from our

1832
02:24:56,960 --> 02:25:04,720
community meeting last year about the
plaza. Could we expand? And I had like

1833
02:25:02,080 --> 02:25:10,000
design concerns about it being too big
because to me some of the most failed

1834
02:25:07,439 --> 02:25:15,040
plazas are ones that try to be too long,
too big, and they don't really. So I I

1835
02:25:12,800 --> 02:25:18,080
think we would need an equally robust
plan for your idea.

1836
02:25:16,399 --> 02:25:22,160
» Main Street's already come out with a
>> Well, it's just a long Okay, I don't

1837
02:25:19,680 --> 02:25:29,359
want to get back and forth for for
Fridays, Randy and not for 20 365. And

1838
02:25:26,640 --> 02:25:35,040
so I think this is much more what we
need on a most days of the week basis.

1839
02:25:32,399 --> 02:25:39,760
That said, I think a phase, a secondary
phase that looks at those potential

1840
02:25:37,840 --> 02:25:45,280
properties with maybe a little
development there that would frame an

1841
02:25:42,080 --> 02:25:49,520
extended plaza would be really cool, but
we also want to see this project happen

1842
02:25:47,600 --> 02:25:55,120
and we need a place to run our farmers
market in the meantime. So, we had to we

1843
02:25:52,800 --> 02:25:59,040
had to jump. We had a a design that the
community does like. We had really good

1844
02:25:56,960 --> 02:26:03,520
feedback on it. I'm not saying it can't
be improved. I I get the timing issues

1845
02:26:01,280 --> 02:26:05,600
and I think you know just to know you
know I've been saying this for a long

1846
02:26:04,560 --> 02:26:09,200
time other people have been saying this
for a long time. I think the the mini

1847
02:26:07,600 --> 02:26:12,479
pause had its own momentum and it just
kind of happened and I sort of don't

1848
02:26:10,720 --> 02:26:17,760
know how it happened but that became the
thing as opposed to focusing more on

1849
02:26:14,319 --> 02:26:22,160
acquisition. But having said that um I
get that you want the development to

1850
02:26:20,080 --> 02:26:26,640
happen it's really important that it
happens and you strike when the iron is

1851
02:26:23,680 --> 02:26:30,640
hot and all the all the elements come
together. I really do understand that

1852
02:26:28,560 --> 02:26:33,359
and I also really understand that. Um,
and then if that's going to happen, then

1853
02:26:32,160 --> 02:26:36,640
you need to put the farmers market
somewhere and we don't own those things

1854
02:26:34,880 --> 02:26:39,280
yet. Even if we decided that's the top
priority, that's still going to take

1855
02:26:38,240 --> 02:26:44,720
time and then you're going to have to
re-engineer stuff. I get all that. It's

1856
02:26:42,560 --> 02:26:48,720
unfortunate. I get it though. But how
how realistic is it really to be able to

1857
02:26:46,880 --> 02:26:51,200
acquire those two properties outside of
like a redevelopment agreement for the

1858
02:26:50,560 --> 02:26:55,040
town?
>> You're really realistic.

1859
02:26:53,359 --> 02:26:56,800
So, you're kind of suggesting that we
condemn those properties just to have

1860
02:26:56,560 --> 02:26:59,520
them
>> or make no pay for them.

1861
02:26:58,240 --> 02:27:01,680
» Just make try to make an offer.
>> Just make an offer. They can't refuse.

1862
02:27:00,800 --> 02:27:05,120
» But they're not.
>> I mean, a monetary offer, not like a you

1863
02:27:03,439 --> 02:27:08,160
know, gangster.
>> They're not interested in selling. So,

1864
02:27:06,479 --> 02:27:10,800
that would be the next option.
>> What's that?

1865
02:27:09,120 --> 02:27:13,680
» They're not They're not interested in
selling at this point.

1866
02:27:12,399 --> 02:27:17,600
» Well, I think you pay a little over
market.

1867
02:27:15,359 --> 02:27:21,920
» Okay. All right.
So, no.

1868
02:27:19,920 --> 02:27:26,080
» I'm sorry. Somebody said something. Oh,
sorry.

1869
02:27:23,040 --> 02:27:31,439
Well, no, I'm not. That's why I'm saying
they're saying

1870
02:27:28,640 --> 02:27:35,040
» it's amazing to say is that real
>> and and I think my point is maybe it's

1871
02:27:33,760 --> 02:27:38,880
not.
>> I I

1872
02:27:36,080 --> 02:27:43,040
» outside of uh outside of significant
windfall that will come out of rebellion

1873
02:27:42,319 --> 02:27:46,160
with this.
>> All right. Thank you, Randy.

1874
02:27:44,720 --> 02:27:48,479
» Okay.
>> Um

1875
02:27:46,640 --> 02:27:54,200
» and this time we're going to conclude.
Oh, mayor, do you want to

1876
02:27:50,720 --> 02:27:54,200
» set a straight

1877
02:27:57,840 --> 02:28:04,960
» I want to thank everyone for coming out
and for all the questions you have. We

1878
02:28:01,920 --> 02:28:10,399
will be posting all of this on our
website. It will be on YouTube, all our

1879
02:28:07,600 --> 02:28:14,960
social media handles. So you can go and
if you have additional questions that

1880
02:28:12,960 --> 02:28:19,120
you you think about or you need
additional questions answered, please

1881
02:28:16,720 --> 02:28:23,680
email us and we will respond to those
questions as well and we'll make all the

1882
02:28:20,800 --> 02:28:26,960
the Q&A's available online. Thank you
for coming out and thank you for lending

1883
02:28:25,520 --> 02:28:31,160
your voice and your opinion to the
project. Have a good night.