[0:05] Good evening everyone. We're going to
get started. Uh thanks for coming out
[0:10] tonight for our track redevelopment
meeting. We're still waiting on a couple
[0:14] people, but I figure we'll get started
and we'll we'll roll right in. Um just a
[0:20] couple house. By the way, I'm Terry for
those of you who don't know me. I'm the
[0:24] burough administrator and economic
development director. very excited to
[0:28] have um the opportunity to present kind
of where we are on this long awaited
[0:32] project. Um but a couple just pointers,
housekeeping items. Um we will be
[0:39] recording the meeting. We are zooming
the meeting uh and so everybody will
[0:44] have the opportunity who couldn't be
here tonight to watch the video and
[0:49] download uh the slide deck uh from our
website after the meeting. So that's all
[0:54] going to be available. I've gotten that
question a couple times. Our website's
[0:58] uh hpb.com.
So, um you can take as many notes as you
[1:04] like. Uh but you'll also be able to um
download the slides for yourself um
[1:09] afterwards. Um with that, I think that's
that's it. Um there will be opportunity
[1:14] for questions and comments, but we're
going to get through the presentation
[1:18] deck first and um we'll uh do the
questions at the end and we'll stay as
[1:24] long as the questions in the room. All
right. Thank you. And with that, I'd
[1:29] like to introduce Mayor Foster. She's
going to kick us off uh get the program.
[1:39] Good evening everyone and evening.
>> Thank you all for coming out on a
[1:42] Thursday night. Um it's exciting to be
here and to talk about where we are with
[1:48] this project, this very very very very
long waited project and um we showed you
[1:54] some slides
a few years ago now and um we have
[2:00] wrapped up what we're going to do. We're
looking forward to having
[2:03] groundbreaking.
But before we do that, we wanted was to
[2:06] show you where we are in the process and
to get any insights or final inputs that
[2:13] you may have. But I'm really excited
about getting the project going because
[2:16] it's been over 20 years in the waiting
for us to get something in our downtown
[2:21] to keep our town um create a thrivable
downtown. And that's the goal is to
[2:27] create more traffic in our downtown,
have our town stay alive because if it
[2:32] stays the same way it is, it's not on a
good track. But I strongly believe that
[2:36] this is going to be a part of a project
that will help to rejuvenate our
[2:40] downtown.
And with that said, I'm going to
[2:44] acknowledge my council member. We have
council member Jason Pollston, council
[2:49] member Hail, Council Member Hirs in the
room with us tonight. And also I want to
[2:54] say a special thanks to our economic
development chair um Terry Jover. She
[2:59] has put in yman's worth of work on this
project and I can't begin to thank her
[3:04] enough from you know the dayto-day and
us going over every facet of the project
[3:11] and revisions after revisions. Thank
you, Terry. And also, Chris Kazenza,
[3:16] want to thank you for your hard work on
this because many, many times we've been
[3:20] on the phone and trying to make sure
that the stuff fits. And Joe Bowman,
[3:26] can't say how much I rely on your help
and your guidance and all the legal ease
[3:32] through this process. But with that
said, I'm going to introduce you to the
[3:36] the chair of our economic development
committee, and that's council member
[3:41] Hail. And at this time I'm going to ask
him to come up and say a few words
[3:44] because I see Bry's here and I think
that I would love for you to lend your
[3:48] voice to this conversation. Thank you.
[3:56] » Thank you very much, Mayor. Is this
working well? Oh, there we go. Okay. Um,
[4:00] I just wanted to to to say a couple
things and and add my sincere thanks to
[4:04] Chris and to Joe and to Terry, to our
professional staff um for the tremendous
[4:09] amount of work that it takes um to bring
a project like this to fruition. Um the
[4:14] pictures that we've seen and the
pictures that you're going to see
[4:16] tonight um we'll show you the front,
show the aside, show you the room, show
[4:21] you give you quite amount of detail. But
when you think about the number of
[4:24] things that we have to do to figure out
that the sewer works and that the
[4:28] streets work and all of those things, it
really is an amazing um amount of
[4:32] technical work um at the city, at the
burough level, at the county level, at
[4:36] the state level. And it really has been
sort of a an eye openening a process for
[4:43] me to see what it takes to have a de
development like this come to fruition.
[4:47] Um as the mayor said, this is a long
time coming. Um we have been thinking
[4:52] about things to do to revitalize
downtown um uh for over 20 years. Um
[4:57] this particular project um we first went
out to bid to to think about this um
[5:02] over five years ago. We've had hundreds
of meetings, hundreds of of sessions
[5:07] working out the details of this and and
this is a a great opportunity to see
[5:12] where we've come out and where this um
where this project is going to go. This
[5:16] project has been designed from day one
to try and bring more people right on
[5:20] the avenue. Bring more people to the
avenue, more people to the businesses,
[5:24] and more people to our community. Um,
and it is also um uh exciting to see
[5:30] that as this project at the at track C
right next door on Third Avenue, we're
[5:35] moving right along with our our project
for a downtown park for turning the
[5:39] third burrow plaza. Um, so right near
there at Burough Square, excuse me,
[5:44] sorry, it's Burough Square. Marketing
all the time. Um, Burough Square where
[5:47] we're going to have have not only just
um the excitement of this new
[5:53] development, but right next to it um uh
we're going to have a public space, a
[5:58] very public park right on a street. And
so those things are moving in tandem. Um
[6:03] this is going to change Highland Park.
There's no doubt about that. It's going
[6:05] to change it. We think it's going to
change for the better. I think it's
[6:08] going to revitalize businesses up and
down the avenue. We think it's going to
[6:11] revitalize um and energize uh uh
Highland Park in a way that we've seen
[6:18] through the a process in other towns
that has followed. Um we follow
[6:22] Matuchin, we follow Somerset, we follow
a number of different places where a
[6:26] project just like this um has really
kickstarted and and kicked off a town.
[6:31] Um so we're really really excited to
this um uh we have some great pictures
[6:36] tonight. of great professionals um to
talk about this.
[6:40] But as all of this teamwork on the
public side um has has brought this
[6:46] together, we're also partners with our
developer um our developer is Brett
[6:50] Tansman and Garden Homes. He's here in
the back today. Um uh Brett right there
[6:56] all the way in the back. Um, and Brett
is is um since day one of this project,
[7:02] Brett has looked at this um I think with
the eye of this is a good project for
[7:06] him. Without a doubt, this is good, but
it is also a good project for a town
[7:10] that he knows very well. Um, and in fact
grew up in um in in some respects. Um,
[7:16] he's been a partner in this. Um we've
had disagreements, we've had hugs, we've
[7:20] had all of these things, but we've come
to a place where we think that this
[7:24] project um uh as a partnership um really
is going to be a great thing for for the
[7:30] town. Um did Brett want to say do Brett
you want to say any words or you want to
[7:35] » Sure. I'm happy to after presentation
whatever.
[7:39] » Come on up Brett. Let's uh
[7:49] also like to recognize that Councilman
Councilwoman Norma Vargas has joined us
[7:53] as well. Um so um add that to the mix.
So um you know Brett just to couple
[8:01] words about your your company, where
you're from and just introduce yourself.
[8:05] You'll be around for questions and all
that. I think that's great. But after
[8:08] we're done, we're gonna hear from our
professionals. We're going to hear um
[8:11] walk through the project. Um we're
looking forward to questions. We're
[8:15] looking forward to um a discussion. And
we're excited from here. Right.
[8:20] » Um
good evening everyone, mayor, council,
[8:26] uh professionals, members of the
community, uh our neighbor, Pastor Seth.
[8:32] Um,
my name is Brett Tansman. Uh, and we're
[8:37] I'm part of represented as the the
developer and developer garden homes.
[8:42] Um, we have a long history of of working
in many communities uh redevelopment
[8:50] and I personally, as as Councilman Hill
said, have a deep uh history in Highland
[8:56] Park. Uh I think five generations of my
family have have lived in this
[9:01] community. Um and it's a special place
and we want to build a project and I
[9:07] hope you'll you'll see and this is not a
site plan application today. It's just a
[9:12] high level conversation but we want to
build a project that uh I want to be
[9:17] just as proud of it as hopefully all of
you are um and really have a deep impact
[9:24] on the community for generations to
come. So, I didn't want to take up too
[9:28] much time. I'm happy to answer
questions. Um, and hopefully down the
[9:35] street you've seen we've developed
redeveloped the Frederick. Um and
[9:40] there's a number of other projects in
the surrounding community uh that we can
[9:44] point to where we had a positive um
relationship with the municipality and
[9:50] with the public where at first they had
concerns and uh ultimately they they
[9:56] know that what we say we're going to
deliver we're going to deliver. So we're
[10:00] excited about the prospects of of this
project and the opportunity and um just
[10:06] grateful to be here. So, thank you.
[10:13] » All right. Thanks, uh, Brett. And, and
you'll stick around, so if there's some
[10:17] questions, great. Um, so good. Oh, I
should have probably put this up
[10:22] earlier. Welcome and introductions.
Check. Um, but what we're about to go
[10:27] through and then as you can see, we'll
get to questions and comments. Um, we
[10:31] are I'm going to kind of do a refresher
on the project because we recognize
[10:35] we've been in kind of collaboration
negotiation mode with Garden Homes for
[10:40] quite some time and the community hasn't
heard about other than we're working on
[10:46] it. We're working on it uh in a while.
So, I'm going to kind of click through
[10:50] some overview sides of kind of what
we're trying to achieve with the project
[10:53] and then I'm going to hand it over to
our redevelopment council, Joe Bowman,
[10:57] to walk us through the terms of the
redevelopment agreement that we've all
[11:01] kind of we think we're we're pretty much
there uh in terms of the things that
[11:05] need to be memorialized in that
agreement. And we've done a fiscal
[11:09] analysis related to a potential
financial agreement as well that Joel
[11:13] will walk us through and kind of give
you a sense for if this moves forward,
[11:17] what the timelines would look like and
so forth. And a lot of which is
[11:21] articulated in the reveloping room. Feel
free to sit over here. You can just stay
[11:26] stand over here too. Um so with that,
I'd like to just uh click in to um kind
[11:34] of where have we been? Oh, thanks. Um we
uh you might remember I presented a
[11:40] version of this uh a few years ago. In
2005 we adopted a downtown redevelopment
[11:46] plan that included uh what we're now
calling the track Clayite which I should
[11:50] say is between on Ritton between second
and third uh southside. Um and we've
[11:57] been plugging away and a few years ago
in 2021
[12:01] uh we took a new approach where we
identified four tracks downtown AB C and
[12:06] D where we did sight specific
redevelopment plan for that. We issued
[12:11] an RFP that same year. We took some
time, got proposals in and garden homes
[12:16] was one of those proposals that we liked
and we ultimately ended up designating
[12:21] them as the conditional developer for
track C, the site we're talking about
[12:24] tonight. Um, over between 22 and 26, we
took a lot of time. We had a community
[12:31] meeting in 2024 where we showed a lot of
photos and answer a lot of questions. We
[12:36] took a lot of that input to heart in the
in the design work that's been going on.
[12:39] Um but uh essentially we did expand the
redevelopment area because there were
[12:45] additional tracks that Garden Homes had
acquired and brought into the project.
[12:49] Um we amended the redevelopment plan
accordingly in line with the vision of
[12:54] the project that came together in 2425.
Um and then most recently the final
[13:00] parcel kind of was a way to put a point
in it was uh purchased in 2026
[13:06] uh just about a month ago. So, that was
kind of the last piece of the puzzle, so
[13:12] to speak, so that we could move the
project forward. Um, and now we're in
[13:17] the process of we've been discussing our
redevelopment agreement, which Joe's
[13:20] going to walk you through shortly, um,
and the terms of a potential financial
[13:24] agreement. and um Garden Homes has been
pulling their materials and actually has
[13:30] begun the process for a site plan
application which would be if we come to
[13:35] a redevelopment agreement would be the
the next step that could take place in
[13:39] October or November of this year. So
just to give you a sense of the projects
[13:43] kind of finally pulling together after
all this time of discussion and I must
[13:48] confess the question I get more often
than not now is like is anything ever
[13:52] going to happen? Not I don't want this
to happen. So, I hope you'll see we've
[13:56] made some progress and we're ready to
move forward. But I I promise a
[14:01] refresher course for some of you who may
or may not have been uh at our previous
[14:05] meetings or familiar with the project,
but currently you're you're back to New
[14:09] Brunswick. You're standing across the
street on Raron Avenue looking uh
[14:13] towards Second South Second. And here's
these are the exact pictures we showed
[14:18] in June of 2024. I couldn't believe it
was 2024. Um, and this is a concept
[14:25] rendering of what we would like to build
here. And similarly, walking down the
[14:31] street a little further away,
we've got another we kind of a
[14:36] brownstone walk up. And then we have um
some covered uh public space, which I'll
[14:44] talk about in a little bit. And then
just looking the other way, looking down
[14:48] from uh
we're looking at uh that's the building
[14:53] looking down towards New Brunswick. So
these are the same pictures we showed
[14:57] way back when and I'm pleased to report
that after a lot of due diligence on the
[15:02] part of garden homes from geotechnical
to storm water design and engineering
[15:09] uh they figured out a way to build a
project. And so that's what a lot of the
[15:13] um due diligence that we've been doing
these last few years at this point has
[15:18] been to figure out how to make it work
and to fully program the building. How
[15:22] many units can it really support parking
spaces and things like that? Um this is
[15:27] my little scheme, so I'll take full
credit for any mistakes that are on this
[15:32] this detail. But just to break down the
building a little more, it's one
[15:37] building, but it's designed to look like
five. So that I, you know, if you saw as
[15:41] we walked down the street, you could see
different typologies,
[15:45] you know, different setbacks and things
because we really recognize it's large
[15:49] scale for Highland Park, but we want it
to fit in. Um, so it's one building as
[15:54] this diagram and this is really kind of
like the first floor. See if this works.
[15:58] So at the corner, this is the south
second and corner division is a
[16:02] restaurant. Fairly large one footpoint
there. Uh these are those brownstone
[16:07] style residential units that we saw on
the rendering. Um moving forward, this
[16:12] is a a pedestrian connection through to
Magnolia Street and to Raritin, which
[16:17] I'll talk a little more about. Um this
has now been reinvisioned as potential
[16:22] retail or commercial space as of right
now. Um a lobby space that was this is
[16:28] all fronting Ritan. And then this is
very exciting for us. uh indooroutdoor
[16:34] public space that the burrow can use.
The indoor space will be exclusive to
[16:38] our operations and then this is a shared
uh covered outdoor space uh that both
[16:44] the residents here but also the general
public can utilize as well. And then
[16:48] kind of capping things off here uh
retail and commercial at the end. So
[16:52] we've got it kind of smack, you know,
that was you know a little bit more
[16:57] commercial than maybe we thought when we
first started the project. Um very kind
[17:01] of the parking is interesting. It's on
two levels. They don't speak to each
[17:05] other. You can't drive from the lower
level to the upper level. So you access
[17:09] the lower level from south second. And
uh this way and again this is just a
[17:15] first level scheme that I've imposed my
own lines and drawings on. Um, and then
[17:22] the other way on the upper level, which
is really more at grade when you're
[17:26] coming in off Magnolia Street, will be
access from Magnolia Street. Importantly
[17:31] to the burrow, um, and highlighted in
this yellow bar is we've kind of come to
[17:37] agreement that there'll be 40 public
spots in perpetuity. Um and the ones on
[17:44] the surface lot that we're we've already
utilized currently will remain as public
[17:50] spots in perpetuity. Um again uh I
believe it's about um 27 on the surface
[17:58] lot and 13 interior, but it's definitely
40 total. So I'll let Brett speak to
[18:03] that if I got something wrong. Um, so
we're really talking about, and I should
[18:08] mention the final programming came to
134 new apartments, downtown living with
[18:15] 20 of them, 15% being affordable. Um,
about 14,000 square feet of retail and
[18:20] commercial space broken down as I kind
of write there on the screen for you. um
[18:25] that indoor outdoor space comes to a
total of 6,000 square feet of indoor
[18:29] outdoor space, the 40 spaces of
permanent public parking, and then a
[18:33] total of 250 spaces. So that's kind of
like the broad strokes of the project
[18:38] that some of you who may not be as
familiar with it. I feel like I've been
[18:43] studying it for four years. Uh so sorry
if I I went through it. A couple really
[18:48] important things that we want to
highlight, and this is just a kind of a
[18:51] zoom in on the landscape plan. Um, we
this pedestrian connection I mentioned
[18:56] before, it it is ADA accessible. There
is an elevator or stairs that one can
[19:02] utilize. I'll let somebody else who
knows the the program better than I
[19:06] explain exactly how it works. And very
importantly, in the lower left here, um,
[19:11] it's designed to feel welcoming to the
public because it is a public access
[19:15] point through that we are a midblock
crossing there. Um, and it's important
[19:20] and uh, Garden Homes has agreed to some
probably a sculpture of some sort, maybe
[19:25] some public art mural up here. We're
going to negotiate that and we're going
[19:29] to come together on that, but they've
committed to that and in our
[19:32] discussions, which we're really excited
about as an opportunity to to really
[19:36] personalize the project to Highland
Park. Um, this is that covered uh,
[19:42] public space outside of the indoor
community space. Um, it'll be furnished
[19:47] and finished for us uh by Garden Homes
and they're going to help us maintain
[19:51] it. We'll also have a role in keeping it
nice and maintain maintaining it, but
[19:56] it'll include lighting. Both of these
spaces will be well lit and inviting and
[20:00] really kind of add a lot to the
downtown. Um, importantly, um, and we
[20:06] heard from our shade tree folks
especially, we're going to have new tree
[20:11] pits where we can and we're going to
have enhanced tree pits so we can
[20:14] hopefully see our trees really thrive
and they also serve a better green
[20:18] infrastructure purpose. Um, and there's
also landscaping uh throughout which if
[20:23] you're really into the into that, you
can follow their application to the
[20:27] planning board uh where they'll go into
a lot more detail about uh what they
[20:31] have in mind and and the finishing
touches. So, in a nutshell, um this is
[20:36] how the project is going to work. Uh one
thing I should mention is from the rear,
[20:43] while I don't have a good drawing of
this, the building stays to three
[20:48] floors. uh in the back on this area and
this is an amenity deck area uh that's
[20:53] intentional to step back from the church
property and from some of the
[20:58] neighboring properties thereby so we
don't the the taller portion of the
[21:02] building will be closer you know in this
more front part closer to rare nav which
[21:08] was all stuff we put in the re uh
redevelopment plan to try to manage uh
[21:14] uh putting a larger building where one
wasn't for I think I covered all my
[21:20] bullets, so we'll move on. Oh, this is
just a concept plan for what would be
[21:25] our interior um community space. It's
basically a multi-purpose room. We're
[21:31] envisioning it for Wouldn't it be great
to have uh art exhibits coming through,
[21:36] other kinds of performances potentially?
And we may be some of these things may
[21:41] move, but we'll definitely have full
functioning restroom, a a more of a
[21:46] closed office setup and a pantry as
well. So if we want to host meetings or
[21:50] events in there, we have what we need to
do that. And then also really neat,
[21:55] there will be some larger doors here um
so that they can be kind of opened up.
[22:00] So if we have an indoor outdoor event um
we can accommodate that as well. Um, and
[22:05] so, you know, we get we get the full
benefit of the 6,000 square foot of
[22:10] space. Um,
and then I just can't end without, you
[22:15] know, by the way, we've got another
project which you heard a couple times
[22:19] mentioned. We have our Traxxy
redevelopment project, but then we're
[22:22] also have been working hard on the
Burough Square Plaza, uh, which is on
[22:27] South Third Avenue, uh, the the closed
portion of South Third being from where
[22:32] my my arrow is here. Um and then our
expanded parking port and support
[22:37] functions will be over there. Um those
are um you know this is integral because
[22:43] we know we'll be displacing activities
from uh track C uh to this new
[22:50] refurbished space. Uh so we're really
excited these two projects are coming
[22:54] together. Um, and just as a in case you
haven't heard, these are this is a just
[22:59] a quick rendering of the Burough Square
project looking from Raritin towards
[23:05] Magnolia Street. Um, there's a lot of
information about that project up on our
[23:10] website as well. Happy to answer some
questions, but we're really focused on
[23:14] uh the track portion of this, but the
two things have been kind of discussed
[23:19] hand inand So, I just wanted to make
sure everybody was oriented to, you
[23:22] know, what's happening where. Um, I
think that was all I was going to cover
[23:27] and I and with that I was going to
invite Joe to come walk you through the
[23:32] terms of the redevelopment agreement.
Joe, that should work hopefully.
[23:37] Thanks.
[23:40] » Hey, Joe. How we doing?
Awesome. Um,
[23:45] I'm going to take you through the
document uh and talk to you about the
[23:48] finance of the project, but I would be
remiss if I didn't sort of underscore
[23:54] the effort and what to get us from here
to there. Clearly, there was a vision 20
[24:00] years ago or so about a redevelopment
plan that just never took off, right? It
[24:05] just never happened. Didn't have legs.
Nothing really. There was not a
[24:09] redevelopment project, I think, ever
undertaken under that original plan. the
[24:13] governing body
um with their planner and the
[24:17] professional team started to okay well
that didn't work let's come up with a
[24:20] new redevelopment plan and we went down
a process of identifying four areas in
[24:26] town where we felt redevelopment could
actually happen uh tracks A B C and D
[24:32] and we picked those very strategically
based upon what those projects where we
[24:36] think we had the highest likelihood of
succeeding track C that we're talking
[24:41] about we identified
in part because we owned some of the
[24:45] property which we thought was going to
be an important component. Um and in
[24:49] initially and we envisioned back in the
day as a much smaller project than we
[24:53] actually ended up with today um to our
benefit. Um we en envisioned a smaller
[24:59] project because we were trying to sort
of limited the the number of properties
[25:03] that would have to be involved in the
private properties that make up this
[25:07] project that were not the public
project. So we went down the path. We
[25:10] went through an RFP process which was
very robust. We received several
[25:14] proposals. We have analyzed those
proposals and after that process we
[25:19] selected uh garden homes. Now garden
home. So garden home wasn't just sort of
[25:23] selected uh at will. They competed
through a process. They made a
[25:28] compelling argument and at the time they
had already decided that they believe in
[25:32] uh island park that they were going to
start buying properties in this area. So
[25:37] they made a proposal that said, "We want
to do this project." Oh, by the way, we
[25:40] started to acquire land in the property
and we just completed a project with you
[25:45] on River Road and we think we did a good
job. We hope you did, too. And we did.
[25:50] So, we selected them after this process.
And that process included, as I'll
[25:53] describe to you a little bit, things
like what's the purchase price going to
[25:56] be for the land? What's the project
going to look like? We did that, you
[26:00] know, after about six or seven months of
analysis as uh Terry described to you
[26:05] and then since then we've been working
on the project. Why has it taken us so
[26:10] long? So along the way, one of the
things Gardens Home has been doing which
[26:14] is incredibly beneficial is they've been
acquiring the land and and third party
[26:18] transactions slowly acquiring all the
parcels that make up this project. Why
[26:23] is that important for the borrow?
Because without their efforts to acquire
[26:27] this property in third party
transactions, we would have to be more
[26:30] aggressive about making that happen. So
they took the yman's job of today
[26:35] acquiring all those properties which
unless we sign agreement with them,
[26:38] they're at risk now for owning all that
land without the ability to do a
[26:42] redevelopment project until they sign a
redevelopment agreement with them. So
[26:45] they exhibited a significant amount of
faith and trust in both us as a
[26:51] cooperative partner and in themselves as
proving to us that they would be a good
[26:56] partner and we could come to an
agreement. So through that process we
[26:59] had a couple of iterations of our
redevelopment uh plan was amended as
[27:03] they would suggest as we sort of
expected to our planner. We think we
[27:07] should do something different. We would
do something different. We expanded the
[27:11] area. We uh made some bulk standard
changes. all as a enter of to a process
[27:17] that would get us to today which we
believe is a much better process and
[27:21] project than we began with when we first
started this. It was smaller. but didn't
[27:26] control the land to today where they now
own all of the land having worked with
[27:30] every single uh private property owner
reached third party uh arms link
[27:36] transactions including with our good
neighbor their good neighbor and uh our
[27:41] the church we who's been very
cooperative with us frankly extremely
[27:45] helpful through the process so this sort
of effort sort of coalesed to today so
[27:50] that project that you've seen is is a
couple years in the making and along the
[27:54] way we did have a community meeting so
that the community was sort of kept in
[27:58] at breast along the process but it took
a while but you know like anything
[28:04] that's hard and difficult u it it's
worth it it's really worth it we're
[28:09] really thrilled to sort of describe the
project to you and as you as I present
[28:13] to the planning board I'm I'm confident
that the public will participate in that
[28:18] process and also uh in uh be proud and
happy with the result of this effort So
[28:25] the redevelopment agreement. So one of
the things about redevelopment that
[28:28] doesn't exist in normal zoning is we uh
we get to negotiate with the redeveloper
[28:35] certain things that we could not do
under the municipal land use law, things
[28:40] like uh selling them property, things
like uh community space, uh particular
[28:46] uh other particular requirements that
I'm going to walk through with you
[28:49] today. So you but for being
redevelopment, none of these things
[28:53] could happen. Well, we so we now have
this zoning, this redevelopment plan
[28:57] that describes the the the contours of
the project, the bulk standards that now
[29:04] is the zoning for this process. That
agreement, that plan into it that
[29:08] requirement that they have to sign a
redevelopment agreement with us before
[29:11] they can go to the plan board. So,
that's the step we're at. We've
[29:15] negotiated a redevelopment agreement.
Then I'm going to walk you through the
[29:18] terms and we're going to post it online
and they're going to take action in our
[29:21] next meeting. So people will have heard
about it today. They will have read it
[29:25] um online and then before we even have a
vote. So there'll be plenty of time
[29:31] tonight in your leisure when you watch
this video and or you read a
[29:35] redevelopment agreement to then be
available to uh for when you actually
[29:39] take a vote. Um so under the
redevelopment law, we had this
[29:43] opportunity to negotiate with garden
homes for a number of things to make
[29:48] this project uh better than um than it
would have other frankly under the mun
[29:54] language.
So um this is sort of a summary of some
[30:00] of the critical terms that you're going
to see in the redevelopment agreement.
[30:03] The redevelopment agreement is hundreds
of pages with the the exhibits attached.
[30:07] Um so the purchase price is1 million uh
$1.5 million. When we went through the
[30:12] competitive process, a number of the
developers proposed to buy our land from
[30:18] us to do track city and the purchase
prices from those proposals ranged from
[30:24] 400,000. Eric doesn't know this, he
knows it now. $400,000
[30:29] to uh $1.2
million. So uh Brett in his proposal
[30:35] said, "I'll pay you between 1.2 2 1.5
and as of the last minute he was still
[30:40] very comfortable with 1.2 um but he's
paying 1.5 um sort of an evidence of
[30:46] their willingness to uh negotiate harder
than come to agreement. So this purchase
[30:51] price at the end of the day was the most
that anyone offered to buy our land
[30:55] through the competitive process and it
was the most that uh garden homes had
[31:00] said they would pay uh back when we did
the process. So, we feel really good
[31:05] about this purchase price. This $1.5
million, by the way. I don't know how
[31:09] we're going to purchase it, but it but
it could if we decide to help us fund
[31:13] the uh uh Pharaoh Plaza that's being
that showed you pictures of it's 134
[31:20] residential units. Um, this is going to
be a luxury project. Um, it's going to
[31:25] have some incredible amenities baked
into it. If you ever go see, you can go
[31:30] see some of the other Garden Homes
projects through the state of New
[31:32] Jersey. They're They're a quality
developer with just quality projects.
[31:36] Um, of the 134 15% so 20 are going to be
affordable housing and we afford to
[31:42] house. So 20 of those will be the
affordable housing projects. Um, if you
[31:47] do the math 15% is 20.1,
right? So how do you do 0.1 unit? Well,
[31:53] the way you do that is you come to an
agreement. I'll describe it to you
[31:56] later. Under the law, there's a
calculation for what a unit would cost
[32:00] and they can make a payment. So for the
0.1, they're going to make a payment
[32:03] into our affordable housing trust fund
so that they satisfy the full 20.1 or
[32:07] the responsibilities on 134 units. But
there's, as Terry described you, there's
[32:12] going to be 20 parking spaces. So we're
going to deed them. We're going to sell
[32:15] them all of our land. So they're going
to pay for all of our land at the 1.5
[32:20] million, but then they're gonna
>> So it's 40 40
[32:23] » 40. I'm sorry. Sorry.
Um, thank you. Uh, so by the way, jump
[32:30] in everybody whenever I if I get it
wrong, I can use I can use all the help.
[32:38] Um, so um
the 40 parking space um and uh um
[32:47] sorry and then our 6,000 square feet.
Oh, I know. So they're going to sell us
[32:52] all the land, right? We're going to get
entire all the property is going to be
[32:55] sold from our property, sold to them
$1.5 million. Um, in exchange though,
[32:59] they're going to give us back the
easement in perpetuity so we can occupy
[33:03] for the public can occupy those 40
spaces. So while we are selling them all
[33:07] of our land, 40 spaces will remain ours
through a easement on the property. So
[33:14] we will retain through the easement the
right for the public to park and that's
[33:18] been that was a really important
component of it partly because of our
[33:21] neighbor who's uh people use that the
public uses it. Um so we wanted to
[33:26] maintain that we continue to have
availability for the public for those
[33:28] spaces. Um so in the agreement you're
going to see we've sort of described
[33:34] some of the core responsibilities. An
agreement is a partnership. It's it's
[33:37] public part public private partnership.
So the developer is going to have the
[33:41] obl obligation to acquire the required
properties. He's done it all now um as
[33:46] recently as this summer completed that
process. He's got to get his approvals.
[33:49] He's got to arrange his financing. Uh
he's going to have to construct all the
[33:53] public improvements, the infrastructure.
He's going to have to deliver our
[33:56] affordable housing which will come with
a deed restrictions so they stay
[33:59] affordable for 40 years. Um he's going
to have to maintain the site and he
[34:04] continues to fund the bar. So uh through
this process, all of the work that the
[34:09] burrows had to spend money on to have
our our professionals do not unlike what
[34:14] you see at a landlord has been paid
through an escro from for for from for
[34:18] from Garden Homes and Brett's company.
So the w my time here today for example
[34:23] they're they're paying not the taxpayers
they're paying they're paying the the
[34:27] free um our job here is to um we're
going to participate in the process.
[34:31] You'll see in agreement there's certain
specific things that we're going to have
[34:35] to do. For example uh we're going to
move the transom um that's currently
[34:39] they've agreed to relocate it for us. we
have to tell them where um so we have
[34:43] some sort of limited we got to cooperate
help them along participate in progress
[34:47] meetings inspect it as appropriate um if
they need an extension of time we have
[34:52] to consider it again determine where the
pavilion relocation will go we haven't
[34:56] sorted that out they've agreed to put it
where we tell them um and then you know
[35:01] there's going to be there's schedules
that require government approvals
[35:04] project closing when you get occupancy
when it gets completion it's a very
[35:10] regulated
uh process that's going to you know
[35:15] could take us through the next year or
year and a half to get to the opening of
[35:19] the facility.
So the burough the purchase price is $
[35:24] 1.5 million. you'll see on one of our
our agenda coming up uh not this meeting
[35:29] but the next meeting they'll be
authorizing the purchase of sale
[35:32] agreement for the $1.5 million um with a
closing uh so within 14 days of the
[35:39] receipt of the government approvals um
and then it remains subject to certain
[35:43] conferences. This uh closing date is a
very important timing for us. We do not
[35:49] want to release our property to them
until the last minute when we sure
[35:53] they're ready to get started building um
for a number of reasons. Uh we just
[35:59] don't want to be in a situation where
they acquire a property for $1.5 million
[36:03] and nothing happens, right? So one of
the concerns whenever you're in the
[36:07] redevelopment context is you sell your
property and you get an Asbury Park. How
[36:11] many years ago already you have this
monolith gets half built never gets
[36:14] completed. So in our documents, there's
also this reverber clause. And the
[36:18] reverter clause says that if the
developer acquires our property and
[36:23] doesn't commence construction or fails
to complete the construction, we can
[36:27] take our property back under certain
with certain conditions. We have to make
[36:29] sure the lender gets paid their money.
But at the end of the day, it's designed
[36:33] to make sure that we don't expect this,
but if something were to happen with our
[36:38] pro with this project, we want to be
able to take our property back and and
[36:42] try again. Um, again, no expectation
that would happen. Um, Brett's company
[36:48] wouldn't let that happen. I can't
imagine if they ever had, honestly, they
[36:51] don't know where um, the banks wouldn't
let it happen. But, but because it's
[36:55] public property, it's we have a
fiduciary responsibility to the public,
[36:58] we insist on a reverter claw clause in
the deed that indicates if if something
[37:03] fails along the way, we're going to take
our property back again. Never expected
[37:07] to have to do that.
So we we getting back to the
[37:12] redevelopment world versus the useful
land use law. This is the things that we
[37:15] negotiate into the unit that we couldn't
have done but for redevelopment. So we
[37:19] have our uh 3,000 square feet of indoor
community space. There's going to be a
[37:23] lease. Everybody's also going to approve
that. That lease is that they're going
[37:26] to lease they're going to build out our
facility for us and they're going to
[37:30] lease it to us for a dollar. It's going
to be for 50 years with 25 year renewal.
[37:34] So effectively a lease, you know, for
very long before any of us are still in
[37:39] this in this room or still around. Um,
so that's a that's a long-term lease.
[37:43] And then there's this outdoor space
which is really cool. And as Terry
[37:46] described it, it's going it's being
designed so that you can open the doors
[37:51] uh to have access to the indoor and the
outdoor space at the same time. Sort of
[37:55] doubling the space for an event. uh
because the outdoor space is covered and
[38:00] then the indoor space and it will be
it's going to turn out to be a really
[38:02] cool opportunity for the uh for the
municipality to uh figure out how to use
[38:07] that space and that's ours you know
that's ours to use for the next hundred
[38:11] years and it's ours to program and to
make the best of use of and you know
[38:17] that's money that Brett is forgoing
right he could have leased this to
[38:21] somebody else he could have had a retail
tenant in this project increase his
[38:24] revenues but as part of our negotiations
and our community benefits It's he's
[38:28] turning over those square feet again
finished for us so that we can enjoy for
[38:32] uh for the community for the public uh
the 40 spaces you're aware of and then
[38:36] there we have these EV ready spaces and
the public spaces u that they're also
[38:41] giving. So summarizing community outdoor
space um also this pedestrian connection
[38:46] that Terry described and sort of showed
to you. Uh we we're pretty excited about
[38:51] that opportunity because we see it if
you see the pictures and when you I
[38:55] think when it's completed you'll see
that it's it's really sort of this cool
[38:58] entryway into the into the garage. So,
not into a necessarily exciting, sexy
[39:04] place, but into the garage, but it has
the opportunity to have some really uh
[39:08] interesting artwork that they've agreed
to light and work with us to have it be
[39:13] sort of a centerpiece to the building as
as you will sort of walk as you want to
[39:17] if you want to pass through the middle
of the building to go all the way
[39:20] through the public parking to the back.
So, it's going to be sort of a pretty
[39:23] cool um uh public space in the sense
that open. we're going to program with
[39:29] art in some other in a way to make it
sort somewhat of a meaningful uh uh
[39:35] centerpiece for Highland Park. And it
really uh when you see the design, it's
[39:39] very cool the way it um it's buried next
to these town halls, right? So along
[39:44] their project, I don't know if we gave
it enough credence, but they they're
[39:47] doing these uh walkups.
So, so it's not your typical throw up a
[39:53] big multif family residential project.
It has these this series of walkups that
[39:57] then lead into the restaurant on the
corner which is like this beautiful
[40:00] anchor and then in the other direction
uh more retail and and in fact near the
[40:05] end they added additional lot with some
more retail again how the project
[40:08] evolved in a way where every every step
of the way we sort of added something
[40:13] even more interesting again like this
last that was a addition that I think
[40:17] was in the last couple months that last
piece of retail on the corner which you
[40:21] know we were very happy about. So, um,
that's the community benefits part. Oh,
[40:27] and yeah, oh, the the again the pavilion
is going to get relocated.
[40:33] Um, so I know Highland Park, I know your
council are particularly uh interested
[40:40] in um some of the things that are on
this slide. They were definitely uh very
[40:46] by the way this mayor this governing
body are were so in the weeds on this
[40:50] process um compared to you know you were
blessed to have a governing body that
[40:54] spends the time energy ask the hard
questions of our professional
[40:58] professionals challenges us to do a
better job to do better on our
[41:01] negotiations. Um but this is a slide
where they were particularly interested
[41:06] and that not not every client of mine is
particularly interested in. So they were
[41:10] very interested in sustainable design,
very interested in EV charging, very
[41:15] interested in universal design and very
interested in making sure that this was
[41:18] an 100% electric building. So in the in
the redevelopment agreement, it calls
[41:23] out that um there's not going to be gas
uh stoves for example. Um this is going
[41:29] to be this is sustainable. So these are
some of the things that are either in
[41:34] the redevelopment plan that uh our
planner Chris was careful to put in and
[41:37] or we've included them in the
redevelopment agreement but things that
[41:41] are that are uh designed to make this
sustainable uh to rely on electricity
[41:45] instead of natural gas. Um and then to
adopt you know all the sort of things
[41:50] that are listed there that ADA
accessible everything is sort of laid
[41:55] out in that in that chart. Um again some
of the sort of things are not that
[41:59] financial maybe not as um as interesting
as community space but very important to
[42:06] this to this mayor of this governing
body as we did the negotiations.
[42:11] Uh also uh Highland Park I know is
particularly interested in its
[42:15] streetscape. Right. So we you have a
very robust um downtown uh management
[42:21] commission. You have a very robust
street commission. Um and uh I know
[42:25] Terry spends a lot of time interacting
with them and directing the team uh to
[42:29] make sure that all those kinds of issues
are being addressed. Are we addressing
[42:33] the interests of the downtown
commandment commission? Are we
[42:36] addressing and the special improvement
district? Are we addressing the concerns
[42:39] of the U treat commission? So all again
also u sort of pet head pet issues for
[42:46] the governing body. We heard a lot from
the governing body about the importance
[42:49] of uh streetscape. Uh and then the last
one's over here. Um in our redevelopment
[42:55] agreement, we asked the redeveloper to
engage in good faith efforts to try and
[43:00] hire local uh contractors, local
Highland Park residents. Um and there's
[43:05] you when you'll see the re
redevelopment, it'll describe on
[43:09] describe how they're going to go about
that do that. I I have no doubt they're
[43:12] going to make good faith efforts to uh
try and make that happen. There are
[43:16] legal limitations on what you can ask
them require them to do or not. Um but
[43:20] they were they were more than happy to
you know make these efforts and do all
[43:24] the things necessary to try and find uh
local island park residents that um can
[43:30] you know their businesses that could
benefit from this redevelopment project
[43:33] and the construction of it
affordable housing again a very
[43:39] important uh component uh in Highland
Park uh this project will provide the
[43:46] 15% affordable housing uh the the law on
affordable housing housing is dictated
[43:51] by the state of New Jersey. So, this is
the breakdown. They're going to have
[43:55] these these categories uh and these
bedroom counts which tie back to the
[43:59] state New Jersey requirements that they
will include. They'll we're going to put
[44:03] on their property. So, in the deed,
there'll be another deed restriction
[44:08] that says that this this uh affordable
housing requirements will continue for
[44:12] the next 40 years. In the past, it's
been 30 years. Now, it's 40 years. Um,
[44:16] so, uh, under the current law, we we
held them to the 40-year requirement.
[44:21] Um, and so, so these these affordable,
uh, units and these numbers, um, will be
[44:28] available, uh, in this budget. So
beating the 15% and continuing to
[44:33] continuing to meet our obligation to
fair housing the New Jersey Constitution
[44:38] and then morally to the uh people that
are required for housing in
[44:44] um and then by I talked to you about
that point one it's worth $22,291
[44:50] so that's our fraction uh can we get
another question? Yeah, sure. I'll ask.
[44:54] I just want to remember that.
>> I want to ask a question on that slide.
[44:57] So, as long as we can come back,
>> I will come back to slide. Yeah.
[45:03] » All right. So, because this is not your
typical land use law, we're very
[45:07] involved in the process. So, baked into
the redevelopment agreement, are not a
[45:11] lot of items that um some of them are
typical in any construction project. Uh
[45:16] but we also put them into our contract.
uh things like there'll be the
[45:20] pre-construction meeting where Garnomes
meets with our professional team so
[45:24] everyone is on the same page when the
construction begins. Uh pedestrian
[45:28] safety. So all this project it's going
to be an enormous project going to be
[45:32] the largest ever. It's as you'll see
later it's a 70 plus million dollar
[45:36] investment in our community. Um but we
want to make sure the pedestrian is
[45:40] safe. Uh where the con construction and
parking is going to have to be parked.
[45:44] So where are the people that are working
on site going to going to be? where's
[45:47] the layown going to happen? Um all these
sort of maintenance things that have to
[45:52] happen along the way and after they're
completed the project. Um and then um we
[45:57] do have in the agreement to our neighbor
again. U we call that a specific
[46:01] requirement that we um we have to sit
down and make sure that we have an
[46:06] adequate solution to the solid waste
disposal that currently occurs in the
[46:10] parking lot u for the church. Um so
that's actually baked into the agreement
[46:14] that we reached uh reached in a a
consensus on how best to make that
[46:17] happen. Um that satisfies the church and
the burrow in the development.
[46:24] So the financial analysis so um we we
understood um that uh a project like
[46:32] this may require a payment of little
taxes. Uh but you don't really decide
[46:40] that or come to that conclusion until
you go through a robust process of
[46:45] analyzing the developers cost. So that
process begins by garden homes providing
[46:50] us the burrow with all of their
financial proforms, financial analysis,
[46:57] construction cost, anticipated rents, um
their uh how they're going to finance
[47:03] the project, what their operating
expenses are going to be when they
[47:06] finally open the project, a fully baked
um uh financial analysis that we then
[47:13] turn over to our financial consultant,
Beacon Planning, who has done this
[47:16] throughout the state of New Jersey and
it is for us here to vet their numbers
[47:21] and that begins a negotiation about what
will be the appropriate pilot for this
[47:26] project. And that process happened um
and as a result of that process our
[47:31] consultants um and garden homes and
their lawyers and myself came to an
[47:37] agreement about what we think would be
the appropriate payment in little taxes
[47:41] for this project. The magic of the
payment of those taxes. How do you kind
[47:46] of get to that number? It's it's math,
but it's also somewhat art. The goal is
[47:51] to reach a number that we believe is
sufficient to allow them to succeed at
[47:57] their project, but not so much that they
would get a windfall from their project.
[48:01] And we did have a lot of history already
because we know um from what happened in
[48:06] the river road at least at some level
lots of their numbers because the river
[48:10] road project has a pilot and it's
already been opened and operating and
[48:15] we've received audits on that project.
So we we've sort of begun to understand
[48:20] um the best you know what the economics
are and able to invent the Garn's
[48:24] numbers and and to be fair to Garn um
unlike many other developers they came
[48:31] in what we thought were very fair
numbers. didn't try to show up with a
[48:35] bunch of incredibly low rents that that
demonstrate they're going to lose money
[48:40] or extraordinarily high operating costs
that show they're going to lose your out
[48:45] of whack construction costs. Um they
they showed off with a what we thought
[48:49] was a fair representation. We had some
negotiations, some conversations. We
[48:54] didn't agree with everything they said,
but I think they sort of per usual with
[49:00] working with them. um they didn't try
to, you know, start somewhere in left
[49:05] field and, you know, have to have us
come to a close. We got we got to a a
[49:10] close relatively fast. Um so the the a
so some of the some of the statistics
[49:16] that go into this analysis. So the uh
there's going to be again 114 market
[49:20] units, 20 affordable. The average rental
side is about 1,300
[49:24] square feet. Obviously less for the
studios, more for two and three
[49:28] bedrooms. and their projected rent rent
rent is about $5,500,000
[49:33] and that takes into consideration the
rents on the on the various units the
[49:38] affordable housing rents based on on the
UAC numbers um so they're protected uh
[49:48] uh and then they have their retail rents
so they do have these retail spaces ours
[49:52] is free to us but the other spaces we
projected that they would have about
[49:56] $420,000 of uh retail on the retail
spaces and that assumed an NOI of 5% um
[50:05] then we came to an NOI which I'll walk
you through and we assume about a 5%
[50:08] vacancy um and we assume some prevailing
2026 ret real estate taxes we do do an
[50:15] analysis can you just say what NOA oh
I'm sorry net the net operating income
[50:20] so in our what I'll get to you next is
net operating income in our analysis
[50:24] it's net operating income after taxes or
pilot so NOI is uh total revenues less
[50:30] expenses and in our in our NOI would
also subtract the the annual service
[50:36] charge andor the rent um as appropriate
in the analysis and again the affordable
[50:41] housing the rents we use the so the the
rents or the affordable units is
[50:46] dictated by law state law um based upon
what the affordability of the whatever
[50:52] your income limitations are on the
number of
[50:57] So, uh, the project is slated to be 74
almost $75 million. So, this is going to
[51:03] be a $75 million investment in Highland
Park. I don't think we've seen a $75
[51:09] million investment by a single project
in quite some time, maybe a decade. Um,
[51:15] the estimated cost for that project is
about $239 per square foot. Um, and the
[51:21] estimated cost per residential unit is
$557,500.
[51:25] Uh that's the that's the cost to
construct. Um if we were doing
[51:29] conventional taxes um they would have
and we did the again the total gross
[51:34] income is the 5675. You back out the
operating expenses um and the taxes they
[51:40] end up with about a 3,55,000 net
operating income after taxes. Um and
[51:46] then but if you did the 10% annual
service charges which is what we're
[51:50] recommending for the borrow for the
initial uh period it's it goes up over
[51:54] time um they end up with a higher uh net
operating. So the pilot clearly has an
[52:00] economic benefit to their project right
they're going to enjoy from going from
[52:05] three million to almost four million. So
it's there's roughly a million dollar
[52:09] economic benefit to them uh to have to
pay the annual service charge versus the
[52:15] taxes. So clearly a value to them. Why
uh why does that make sense to us? And
[52:21] it makes sense to us because when we do
the analysis it is clear that without
[52:27] the pilot they would effectively build a
project that would be worth more less
[52:34] when completed than it costs to build
it. So, and we run various cap rates to
[52:39] figure out what that analysis will be.
But, as you can imagine, if I'm going to
[52:44] build a project for $74 million, and
when I'm done building my project, it's
[52:49] worth $60 million, nobody makes that
investment in the project. So our goal
[52:55] working with our financial advisor was
to determine what's the right level of
[52:59] pilot um that we would give them where
the value once built stabilized is more
[53:08] than the cost to build. Again I wouldn't
spend none of us would spend $7 million
[53:13] $7 million to buy something that's then
worth 50 million once we borrow. Um so
[53:18] same analysis we go through in this
process. Um so um
[53:25] at the end of the day well we we stress
test the uh con conventional taxes we
[53:30] stress test the pilot um and we
concluded that now we our financial
[53:34] adviser um that um using a six and a
half terminal cap at a 10-year we
[53:41] calculated the 10-year unleveraged irr
we get to a 4.25%.
[53:46] So what that is is if you assume
uh a fully uh stabilized asset with the
[53:52] revenues we projected over 10 years and
then they sold it in the 11th year um at
[53:58] a 6 and a.5% cap they would enjoy a 4.25
5% internal rate of return um at 15
[54:06] years it will be 5.33%
the expected range um for an investment
[54:11] of this type is somewhere between five
and a half to 7%. Um, so even at the
[54:16] 15-year IRRa, they don't quite get to
the number. That demonstrates um the
[54:22] need for the pilot because this is this
is using the the pilot numbers. Um,
[54:28] I think we benefit in part because
Garden Homes is a legacy builder and
[54:34] holder. This is a family business. They
buy their assets, they hold their
[54:38] assets, they're patient. Um they are not
a buy and flip company which is also
[54:43] part of the reason we wanted to hire
them is their uh their business model um
[54:49] and will correct me on anything I might
have said here is to own assets not to
[54:54] build assets and flip assets which is
different than some other
[55:00] uh so the key takeaways on the financial
analysis again these are the residential
[55:04] units you find unrestricted the the
estimate on the value the cost uh the
[55:09] various returns at the end of the day
that um I'll allow us to recommend. So
[55:15] that what we basically concluded that
the 10% uh annual service charge um this
[55:23] would be the equivalent of a with a 5%
cap rate um which is slightly below
[55:28] market again um I know garden homes uh
initially said to us they would like to
[55:34] do less than 10% to be honest with you
um because they probably did the same
[55:39] math we did um that would have required
us to do bonds and a whole another
[55:43] process so we said look we're just not
going to do We're not going to go down
[55:45] that path. And the 10% that I'm talking
to you about, this also ratchets up over
[55:50] time. So that's a that's an initial
number. And over time, over the 30
[55:53] years, that percent goes up as does
their stage increases that tie into a so
[55:59] by the end of the last several years,
the pilot begins looking like 80% of the
[56:04] otherwise full taxes in now in those
years. So this is a pilot that ramps up
[56:09] with the intention that when they call
off the pilot, now they're paying full
[56:12] taxes. And by the time you get to the
last several years of the pilot um again
[56:16] starts to also begin to look a lot like
taxes% mean that's what they start
[56:21] paying in taxes.
>> They pay 10% of the annual gross
[56:24] revenue. So maybe I wasn't clear about
that. So you take the the simplicity of
[56:28] the analysis is they add up every dollar
they receive and then they pay us 10% of
[56:34] that number and then they audit it every
year and if there and then there's a
[56:37] true up if it's not right from year
because they obviously pay taxes and has
[56:41] to true up so
>> for 30 years
[56:44] » but eventually it goes up to 11 12 and I
think by the last years it's 15.
[56:48] » Are you going to questions or are you
taking questions?
[56:51] » I'm almost done. This is it and then
I'll jump to questions. Um so um what's
[56:56] next? So I'll give you the what's next
and we'll come we'll continue with that
[56:59] question. So um with the redevelopment
agreement we are anticipating
[57:04] considering that at our next governing
body meeting and we're going to post it
[57:08] online um so that people have time to
read it. The financial agreement which
[57:12] is a pilot analysis we'll we'll follow
that. Um it's going to be at the
[57:17] self-split meeting um is the current
expectations. So that and that's a two
[57:21] meeting endeavor. was an introduction,
notice, public hearing, adoption. So,
[57:27] it's two plus meetings. Uh the purchase
sale agreement also going to be two
[57:31] meetings. You generally understand the
terms of that. Um it's 1.5 million bucks
[57:35] with the reverter clause and affordable
housing restrictions. Um then they have
[57:41] uh to get all their government approval.
So, they got to get their sitement
[57:45] approval, their TWWA. Um I think maybe
there's a county approval. And then we
[57:50] have the property closing. Um it says
closing for now they have it's just hard
[57:54] closing again their lender commitment
and financing closed construction
[57:58] commences and they expect it to be about
a two-year not construction. Um so you
[58:03] know you add it all up they they're
opening in called 30 months
[58:09] and that's my question and you want me
to go back to slide
[58:13] » affordable housing.
>> Yeah.
[58:17] » You don't have to go just for me
whatever your model is for taking
[58:20] questions. I think if we're taking
questions, we'd ask microphone so
[58:25] everybody else can hear you.
[58:32] » Seth Coell, one of the pastors at the
Reformed Church of Highland Park and um
[58:38] yeah, thanks for this presentation. Um I
have a bunch of questions and I'm not
[58:43] sure which ones are for you and which
ones are are for others, but I'll start
[58:45] with the affordable housing slide. Um,
I'm not thrilled with the breakdown of
[58:49] very low, low, and moderate because I
understand those things. Um, but one
[58:54] thing that would be really nice is if
you keep this, if the moderate,
[58:59] especially large ones, you'd be willing
to take folks on vouchers. Um, the
[59:04] biggest problem we have in this state
isn't that there's not enough housing,
[59:07] it's that we don't have enough landlords
willing to take people who have vouchers
[59:11] that are actually falling do dollars
wise within moderate gear. um you
[59:16] wouldn't lose any money, but you're
willing to take a family that um that
[59:21] qualifies for a voucher and has every
landlord looking negatively on them
[59:26] because they qualify for a voucher. So,
that that is a special thing that is
[59:30] important to us and that I think would
help diversify who's able to live in our
[59:34] town and who can live in your building
and it won't hurt you financially and it
[59:38] would gain some real bones to to kind of
how we feel about um a project like
[59:44] this.
I can answer that.
[59:46] » Yeah. And so the affordable housing is
>> I think the microphone question.
[59:54] » Yeah. The the affordable
>> No, no, no. I want viewers at home to
[59:57] hear it as well.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the uh the
[1:00:00] affordable components handled by a third
party. We currently take vouchers
[1:00:06] through it's you know whoever qualifies
in working with the third party
[1:00:11] administrator. they handle like who's
qualified. We don't get in the business
[1:00:16] of like who's disqualified. So I think
currently as far as I understand our
[1:00:20] portfolio if someone working with a
third party has a voucher who's
[1:00:25] qualified, you know, we're not opposed
to that. So it's it's kind of out of our
[1:00:30] hands. It's more they they do the
certification qualifications and uh and
[1:00:36] then it comes to us and we just
basically show show the units. um with
[1:00:42] the assumption that certification is
done by a third party. So
[1:00:46] » yeah,
>> take a hard look at that.
[1:00:49] » I would say that's not a satisfactory
answer from me. I appreciate that's what
[1:00:54] it is. I'd like to know more about the
third party group that's dealing with it
[1:00:57] and ask them specifically about their
willingness to take people on batteries
[1:01:01] and it could be a real win for you to
kind of do that in a public way. that
[1:01:05] could help us with other large important
developers in the state to see somebody
[1:01:10] stand up um in this way and say yes when
I have available units that are at these
[1:01:15] rates I'll take vouchers. So I I just
think that's like an easy win um for
[1:01:20] Highland Park and for for this project
that look really good and hopefully your
[1:01:24] your third party person on that. Second
thing I ask you about um will this
[1:01:28] project be subject to the same limits on
how much rent can be raised every year?
[1:01:34] Um like is it 3.65 or something like
that?
[1:01:38] » You mean for the um for the
>> rents? For rents not not affordable just
[1:01:42] general overall rents 134 is the rent
control
[1:01:47] under New Jersey law projects are not
sub.
[1:01:50] » No no every every rent in this town is
subject to a limit that you can raise
[1:01:55] rent every month. I've owned projects
places in this town and every every
[1:01:59] landlord has this. So
>> that that under New Jersey law, new uh
[1:02:04] rental projects are exempt from rent,
local rent.
[1:02:07] » Once it's up and running and you've
charged 3,000 a month for rent or 3,400,
[1:02:12] which I'm calculating for some of these
units, can you in one year jump at 7% if
[1:02:19] you want or is the limit like everybody
else that it's a 3% kind of increase per
[1:02:23] year?
>> It's okay. Something somebody should be
[1:02:27] really looking at um
uh plan for code blue. Currently,
[1:02:34] there's a code blue is provided in and
through a mun the town doing that um in
[1:02:40] one of its buildings that's going to be
torn down. So, that's something we've
[1:02:43] discussed a bit and I just want to say
it's really important by this winter,
[1:02:47] especially if this is going to start
happening, that we know what to do with
[1:02:50] homeless people, of which we have at
least seven right now, who are sleeping
[1:02:54] on site. um heaters um in the covered
spot along the street. Will we have
[1:02:59] heaters in the in the outdoor space?
It's just something to think about like
[1:03:04] you would have for a outdoor dining.
There will be people in the winter for
[1:03:07] whom that's really central. Um clarity
um clarity about the the walkway between
[1:03:16] the church and the new building um is
important to us and clarity about fire
[1:03:22] um trucks being able to get to the
building, ambulances, etc. Um, most of
[1:03:27] those things I feel like you've already
very carefully looked at with us, but I
[1:03:31] just want to reiterate before things go
that like especially with a two-year
[1:03:35] construction phase here. Um, I want to
make sure we have safety of our
[1:03:40] buildings um, and access to worship for
people with disabilities during the two
[1:03:45] years. And so if that means that we need
some sort of a shuttle bus parking at at
[1:03:51] the at Donaldson Park or whatever it is
during those two years and we we are
[1:03:56] willing to be flexible and I absolutely
believe in the need for redevelopment in
[1:04:01] our downtown. Um and I'll look past lots
of things but some things I I won't
[1:04:06] public bathrooms. You didn't show that
but I didn't look enough. I mean the
[1:04:10] public bathrooms in Highland Park right
now are the Reformed Church of Highland
[1:04:13] Park, right?
And we proudly share our bathrooms and
[1:04:16] try our best to keep them clean for
everyone from the municipal workers who,
[1:04:22] you know, had to go during COVID and
needed to be be there to folks who are
[1:04:26] homeless day in and day out. And u just
want to make sure that as our parking
[1:04:30] area or your parking area that we've
used for years has been, you know, will
[1:04:34] be changed that there's enough public
bathroom space for those who don't have
[1:04:39] easy access to a place to go um when
they need to go. So that's important.
[1:04:44] And finally, who pays for the upkeep of
the 40 units um that the public occupies
[1:04:50] um for the long term. So really happy
about to know that there's this
[1:04:54] long-term agreement in place, but um you
know, stuff crumbles and who's, you
[1:05:01] know, it's an easement for us, but where
does the cost come from? Okay, so those
[1:05:06] are my list of questions. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[1:05:11] » Okay. Before
we just move on, just a couple sorry it
[1:05:18] is a tag team different folks. I just
wanted to the restroom question. I you
[1:05:23] raised a lot of good points but I have
an answer on the restroom ones off the
[1:05:26] top. Um when we are having our programs
um the there will be restrooms in both
[1:05:33] the the uh burrow space in the building
but also in our plaza there's uh
[1:05:39] restrooms where between one and two
we're doing the pricing for two and
[1:05:43] hopefully we can afford two. Uh but we
believe you know when we're doing our
[1:05:48] programs we should be able to not rely
on your facilities anymore or at least
[1:05:53] much much less. So, I really appreciate
the point and um I just wanted to
[1:05:59] clarify when you talk about the walkway,
you're are you talking about the walkway
[1:06:03] in between through from Magnolia to
Rariton or the one along towards
[1:06:08] » along the church and then we don't have
enough detail here to show that, but
[1:06:12] we'll certainly talk. Okay, thanks.
Sorry.
[1:06:18] » I do. I I know I that's our code blue is
our um our shelter during uh cold months
[1:06:25] that we
are discussing that but it's an
[1:06:30] important point.
Um, my name is Jessica Hunston and I
[1:06:36] wanted to ask, you spoke a lot about the
financial benefits of a payment lumen of
[1:06:41] taxes for the developer, but I I think
it's really important to think about
[1:06:46] what it means for our community as well.
Um, so you mentioned that um the
[1:06:52] developer would be um paying 1 million I
think you said less taxes annually. Um
[1:06:59] the other and and I'm just going to say
a few things and then if it's incorrect
[1:07:02] you can correct it or you can say yes
you're correct. Um I think the other the
[1:07:06] part of that is that and I'm sure most
people here or not everybody here knows
[1:07:11] that when we have payment in li of taxes
those taxes go from usual agreements go
[1:07:18] 95% to the city and 5% to the county and
none of that money unless there's an
[1:07:26] agreement goes to the public schools.
And so one of the things that is really
[1:07:31] important and that you have done, the
bureau has done with um the Frederick is
[1:07:36] to have an annual agreement with the
school district to put some of that
[1:07:41] money towards the school. So which has
been really and that was in response to
[1:07:45] the community really advocating for
that. So I'm wanting to know if that has
[1:07:50] also been discussed because that's a
really important part of this. Um, and I
[1:07:56] think there are many public school
advocates and supporters here in this
[1:08:00] room and within our community that would
want to know that that is something that
[1:08:04] the burrow is committed to doing.
>> It has been a part of our continual
[1:08:09] discussion.
>> Yes. So there's no commitment to it
[1:08:13] » at this point. It's under discussion and
it's on the table, but we haven't had
[1:08:17] that, you know, we're not revealing that
at this point. We don't have the
[1:08:21] agreement uh finalized at this point.
Okay. But I think the part that might be
[1:08:27] difficult at least for me and maybe
others to hear is when we talk about
[1:08:30] that payment and remove tax as having
benefit to the developer, but we don't
[1:08:34] talk about it as a complete picture of
what it means for our community.
[1:08:38] » I'll let you speak to that. Oh, you're
not done. I'm sorry.
[1:08:41] » No. And I have one other question about
um that 1.5 million that you said the
[1:08:49] developer was paying the bureau. Can you
just um let me know what they're you're
[1:08:54] they're paying us for? Is it which
property is it?
[1:08:57] » I I don't know if I have an exhibit that
shows the Oh, I do actually. Let me go
[1:09:02] back. Um do you have lot lines? So the
burrow owns and the lot lines in the
[1:09:09] aerial don't match perfectly just to so
this lot here and I don't know them by
[1:09:14] heart is owned by the burrow and then as
well as I believe
[1:09:20] This one here, right, Chris or somebody?
Yes. Which is where uh Main Street's
[1:09:26] office 212 Ritton, that's a burrow owned
property. Um as well as the parking lot
[1:09:33] basically that goes all the way through.
Those are the the properties owned by
[1:09:37] the burrow.
>> So how many lots?
[1:09:39] » It's two.
>> Okay. Those two. Okay. The the reason I
[1:09:43] ask this question is because the the the
developer has paid much more for like uh
[1:09:50] land space lot space wise has paid much
more for the acquisitions they have
[1:09:56] prior to that. In 2023 they paid 1.25
million for lot 6.01. In 2022 they point
[1:10:05] they paid 610,000 for lot one. In 2022,
they paid 950,000 for lot 34. In um 2022
[1:10:15] also, they paid 850,000 for lot 9. And
they paid 850,000 also for lot 8. Um one
[1:10:22] more or two more. One more they paid the
first purchase they made 232. They paid
[1:10:28] 850,000.
So as you can see 1.5 is not a lot for
[1:10:34] that. So, I just wanted to maybe the
bureau can say why they took such a low
[1:10:39] amount for that two that large those
large spaces. Um, and I I know I'm
[1:10:46] asking some maybe challenging questions.
I don't but I really am in support of
[1:10:51] the redevelopment. I think there's been
a lot of work that is done. It's time
[1:10:56] for our community to have redevelopment
and in a way that makes sense to our
[1:11:01] community. But I do think these
questions that I raised are really
[1:11:04] important ones um for for the reasons
that I raised them.
[1:11:09] » I'll let Joe pick up on some of these.
>> Okay. U so let me start with the value
[1:11:15] to the burrow. So uh right now the taxes
um on the properties that are paying
[1:11:22] taxes or not is about $120,000 I think
annually
[1:11:27] » 136
turn the math. So 136 um the annual
[1:11:32] service charge is going to be roughly
570,000. So um there's a so just sort of
[1:11:38] out of the box the annual service charge
that we're going to uh enjoy is you know
[1:11:43] 400,000 plus more so it's a
substantially more amount of money um
[1:11:47] than we're currently enjoying from the
from all those properties you described.
[1:11:51] Um so that's that's the first benefit.
The second one is um you know I think
[1:11:57] what Terry and the mayor said was you
know as the race to the board of ed um
[1:12:01] we haven't even had a vote on this yet
and publicist still ask questions about
[1:12:06] that. So it felt premature um to engage
in any conversation um until we have
[1:12:12] deal and then what we're talking about
um which is kind of the way we did it
[1:12:17] last time for river uh the purchase
price. So um the we went through a
[1:12:22] competitive process and this and many
people felt that it was worth a lot
[1:12:26] less. What history shows you um when you
do redevelopment is um the property
[1:12:32] owners in the area that they had to
purchase the property for um had a lot
[1:12:36] of leverage, right? So um if you have a
property, you sort of have this key
[1:12:41] piece of property um and you you were
aware and everyone was that they're
[1:12:46] going to sell it um that they're going
to be selling it. the developer needs it
[1:12:49] to need this piece of property right
here, right? To make your development
[1:12:52] work. Um, I would posit that some of
those prices are above market at the end
[1:12:57] of the day that they pay more than
market to make a project to assemble all
[1:13:00] the property and make it work. So, and
then sort of the last point of it is um
[1:13:05] from the burrow's perspective um I think
the the land and if the it's all part of
[1:13:12] the math, right? It's all goes into the
math. What's the total project cost?
[1:13:16] What's the pilot they need? you you pay
you get more money from the land you
[1:13:20] need a better pilot. Um so it all sort
of pulls and tugs at uh at one another
[1:13:27] $10 million for a land. Um we wouldn't
have been able to give them a pilot low
[1:13:30] enough to make it work. Um so so it's
sort of all part of this um math
[1:13:35] analysis that gets us to a number but it
was through a not an auction albe it but
[1:13:42] through a process um was a piece of was
the number that was the the highest that
[1:13:46] anyone offered to pay again some
offering to pay substantially less. So
[1:13:50] it was it's part of the process we went
through. It's part of the math to make
[1:13:53] sure the transaction works. Um and I do
think at the end of the day uh may
[1:13:58] disagree I don't know but I do think
that you know often whether it's because
[1:14:02] our other plan other choice we could
they couldn't negotiate a transaction
[1:14:05] with property owners we'd have to use as
we've done sparingly but never want to
[1:14:10] but we are doing it across the street is
use combination which is never a great
[1:14:15] solution right so I think those property
owners probably um if they were in the
[1:14:20] market and it wasn't right buying it for
a bigger project would not have seen
[1:14:23] those values So we're comfortable that
that number based upon the process we
[1:14:28] went through based upon the analysis of
all the numbers together um is a is a
[1:14:33] fair number for this and again I think I
think it's also important to always
[1:14:38] bring back from the public sector side
we're trying to have a game changer
[1:14:44] happen here for island park this is not
just a development deal this is an
[1:14:48] effort to um turn the t this is a red
area for a reason it's a redevelopment
[1:14:55] area because it's fits the criteria of
an area need of redevelopment. Not every
[1:14:59] piece of property fits that criteria. So
this is as much of a investment in the
[1:15:05] community. If we took a somewhat less
number for our land for example, make
[1:15:10] the math work. It's because we're
investing into a project that's gonna
[1:15:14] put folks living in downtown, gonna put
a restaurant, retailing jumpstart u what
[1:15:20] we hope to be a much larger development
improvement of the entire downtown. And
[1:15:27] sort of the last point I would make is
um the pioneer and almost every
[1:15:32] redevelopment project, which is who they
are in this project, the first one in
[1:15:36] usually gets most of it gets more
benefits than the second one, the third
[1:15:39] one. Uh we'll see how that plays out in
how it work. Um but this kind of project
[1:15:44] is also somewhat untested. You know,
this this side
[1:15:48] sounds like I was going to add to
>> utilize the microphone.
[1:15:53] » I was I was gonna add to to Jessica's
question too. We looked at it also as a
[1:15:58] huge benefit in the space that the
public is going to have for a very long
[1:16:03] time. So I looked at that as part of the
cost as well. uh as well as the shared
[1:16:08] parking, public parking, that's property
that I can't we're basically taking over
[1:16:14] the maintenance. There's a cost to that
and providing what the public has today,
[1:16:18] but in a way that'll be better than what
is there today. So, I look at that as
[1:16:23] cost that's part of the purchase price
as well.
[1:16:31] Peter.
>> So, um, the question is, um, I don't
[1:16:37] really understand what you were saying
about the pilot. It was confusing.
[1:16:44] I can't believe what I thought. I heard
that they're paying initially 10% of
[1:16:51] their gross um, revenues going up to 80%
of their gross revenues, going up to 80%
[1:16:58] of otherwise applicable taxes. So
there's a there's there's two there's
[1:17:04] three numbers that we look at every year
to figure out what will be the annual
[1:17:08] service charge. The first number is
they're campaigning less than they were
[1:17:12] paying the year before. That's not going
to be a problem because they were paying
[1:17:16] $120,000.
The second number we look at is a
[1:17:20] percentage of their annual gross
revenues. In this case, it starts at 10%
[1:17:24] and then as you'll see in the financial
agreement over a period of time, it
[1:17:28] rises to I think 12 and a half remember
>> 15%.
[1:17:32] » Oh, I'm sorry. It rises to 15%. So the
10 becomes 15 over 30 years in
[1:17:37] increments
>> of gross revenue.
[1:17:39] » Yeah, gross revenues. So that's the
second set of numbers. First the last
[1:17:43] four quarters. Second number is this
percentage of annual gross revenues
[1:17:46] that's growing. So while revenues are
growing, right? the more revenues rents
[1:17:50] will go up, the base number goes up and
also the percentage goes up. So by the
[1:17:56] end we will have enjoyed all the rent
increases that happened and then we'll
[1:18:00] also have a higher percentage of those
numbers. That's
[1:18:03] » okay. Gross up to 15%
>> at the end of uh so along the way goes
[1:18:08] to 10 then I think it's 11
>> 11 12 and a half
[1:18:11] » and you'll how many years is it?
>> I think the first 15 years or 10
[1:18:15] » first 10 or 10.
>> Yeah. Can you answer that?
[1:18:20] » Forget
>> the first 10 years I believe it was 10%
[1:18:26] and then it goes to 11% for 5 years and
then 12 and a half% for five years and
[1:18:32] then uh 15% for the last 10. But during
that time also it's the greater of your
[1:18:38] your percentage of the annual gross
revenues or a percentage of what your
[1:18:44] actual taxes would be. So, so that's the
f first minimum. Second is this
[1:18:49] percentage.
>> So the total amount of time for the
[1:18:52] pilot is 30 years.
>> 30 year. Yeah. So our success is like is
[1:18:56] the burough success. So
>> the more successful we are, the more
[1:19:00] successful the town will be in
collecting revenue
[1:19:03] » and the projected um gross revenue for
the first year.
[1:19:09] » Uh they're stabilized. Hopefully we're
gross revenues at like five, 52, 53. I
[1:19:17] think you had 55 up here. 56.
>> Yeah. And and one thing to note too,
[1:19:22] when we submitted our RFP, interest
rates were much lower. Uh I think today
[1:19:29] we're at the 10 years at 5.85.
Um these numbers don't show the debt
[1:19:36] service. So what we're really like
there's not a lot of room here. Um, you
[1:19:42] know, even if you were borrowing a
portion of of the capital that would be
[1:19:48] put into the project, uh, at we're at
the floor of like 6%, you know, that's
[1:19:54] on $50 million borrow, you know, if
you're borrowing $50 million, that's $3
[1:20:00] million in just debt service on interest
only. So, that's a that's also a game
[1:20:05] changer. There's not, you know, we're
taking a long-term view. as as Joe said,
[1:20:10] we're here for hopefully for generations
and uh and I'm not looking at just the
[1:20:16] first 10 years, but it's going to take
time to, you know, there's not and I to
[1:20:22] actually um you know be long-term
successful financially. So,
[1:20:27] » so what Brett's saying to you is um this
I know my number doesn't include test
[1:20:32] service, right? So he just did the
numbers for you. The numbers that shows
[1:20:36] that I think we agree with had him with
negative cash flow for 15 and get better
[1:20:44] over time. His rents go up of course,
but he had negative cash flow meaning
[1:20:47] his operating expenses and service and
the annual service charge um will be
[1:20:54] greater than his income for many years.
Um and again that's Charlie because
[1:21:00] they're willing to do that because they
they buy and hold and this will be for
[1:21:04] breast children's children's children
someday.
[1:21:09] Um
[1:21:14] sorry how you doing?
Wonderful to be here talking about this.
[1:21:19] It's been such a long time in coming.
You said it was about 25 20 years is
[1:21:23] about 25 but who's counting. Um so um
the um I really support the development
[1:21:32] um and I think it's wonderful and
congratulations to everyone including
[1:21:36] our developer partner for getting us to
this point where we can I support the
[1:21:40] project. So for me this is not a
question about whether or not I support
[1:21:43] the project but it's how do we make the
most out of this gamechanging you know
[1:21:48] what's opportunity to shape the town.
Um, some of that comes from tax revenue.
[1:21:53] Some of that comes from having vitality
on downtown. That's just the nature of
[1:21:57] development. But the other major thing
is the community benefits. So, um, we're
[1:22:02] getting a pilot. We're selling a piece
of property as a consideration. And the
[1:22:07] main community benefit that I think
we're getting is the 3000 foot indoor
[1:22:13] space and the 3000 foot adjoining pause.
And so, um, I'm wondering
[1:22:20] what, um, formal assessment of need was
done, like what unmet need are we
[1:22:25] meeting, um, to make the decision that
that's where we're going to put the big
[1:22:30] benefit. Um, seems to me that we have
already a number of similar smallalish
[1:22:36] scale, maybe undersized public spaces.
We have an underutilized environmental
[1:22:42] center. Uh we've got the senior center
which is about twice as big, maybe four
[1:22:47] times as big if you just count the
indoor space. Um we've got the teen
[1:22:52] center. Um and then we have the Burough
Square development where the proper part
[1:22:56] of it is about 11,000 square feet. Um
and then to accommodate the farmers
[1:23:00] market, we have to wrap around the
corner and compete with the parking lot.
[1:23:05] Um and there's been concerns raised that
that's a step down from what we have and
[1:23:09] that it's undersized. Um, so my question
is does like is the right thing to do
[1:23:16] with this once in a lifetime chance to
make another sort of
[1:23:22] disjointed plaza. I guess you can see
where my sympathy sl trying to hide it
[1:23:26] but not doing a good job. Um, you know,
sort of freestanding as opposed to
[1:23:31] concentrating our investment to make
something that is really big will stand
[1:23:35] the test of time. um to make the Burough
Square project bigger um where we could
[1:23:41] accommodate everyone for big ceremonies,
for tree lighting, for big festivals um
[1:23:46] as opposed to having to make real
compromises there. And if you go back to
[1:23:49] the slide that showed the Burough Square
development,
[1:23:54] » we're getting into my area.
>> Um this one,
[1:23:59] » the one with the with the this one.
>> Yes. It's just so patent. Yeah. So
[1:24:04] here's the sort of proper part of
Burough Square. It's quite small. And
[1:24:07] then here's like the roundabout, right?
So this is really still street and then
[1:24:10] this is a parking lot, right? So here's
here's where the the thing happens and
[1:24:14] here's overflow. It's just so obvious to
me that like there's these two
[1:24:18] residential properties and we're talking
about spending a million dollars, you
[1:24:22] know, to buy properties. Like you can
buy a house like that for a million
[1:24:25] dollars. Um, and they they find they
create a new way to connect to the main
[1:24:30] property and they completely open up and
transform the space and they they
[1:24:35] provide so much more opportunity to make
something meaningful out of all of this
[1:24:38] as opposed to a relatively small,
unproven, untested kind of standalone
[1:24:44] thing. I'll also note that having a lot
of disjointed public spaces can be
[1:24:48] expensive. Each one has to be separately
managed, maintained, programmed. Um if
[1:24:52] we ever want to create like
sustainability resiliency hubs for code
[1:24:56] blue or something like that. So we want
infrastructure
[1:24:59] um like we want for for the senior
center we want to put solar and battery
[1:25:02] backup storage and water storage and
other things that can make that in the
[1:25:07] event of a disaster a community hub. We
would need to invest in that. You can't
[1:25:13] you can't build all that infrastructure
redundantly and you can't make micro
[1:25:16] grids on properties that are disjointed.
So concentrating your efforts in one
[1:25:21] area is just a smarter way to do it than
having all these little thing you know
[1:25:25] things around scatter but we already
have a number of things that are already
[1:25:29] like this. Um so I guess my question is
how much opportunity is there to still
[1:25:33] consider something like that and has
there been a formal kind of unmet need
[1:25:37] assessment that went into that
particular decision and and just finally
[1:25:41] I'll just note that the the amount that
is being spent on that as uh Mr. Bowman
[1:25:48] said is quite significant. Uh so it's
not just the cost to build it, but it's
[1:25:53] the deferred value of what the developer
could be making from that. Um so it's a
[1:25:58] significant community benefit and a
significant concession. And although
[1:26:02] there's things that were listed like um
streetscaping, affordable units, um a
[1:26:08] good faith effort on hiring, most of
those things are compliance things. They
[1:26:12] have to be done. They also benefit the
developer. When you talk about the
[1:26:15] things where a dollar figure can be
attached to it, that can be part of a
[1:26:19] negotiation. As far as I can tell,
unless I miss something, the the little
[1:26:23] plaza is the real benefit.
[1:26:28] » Um, take exception at Little Plaza and
Little Indoor Space. But um
[1:26:34] to back it up a long ways when we did
the redevelopment plan that envisioned
[1:26:40] the track project and even I believe
even in kind of earlier visions from
[1:26:45] 2005. Um there was always a desire to
have and and frankly it came out in
[1:26:52] droves of the public comment when we
were doing the the redevelopment plan
[1:26:56] that we whatever developments we do need
to have public space incorporated
[1:27:02] and that was an important component. So
the public did drive maybe not the how
[1:27:07] it all got laid out but the the
dedication of this space and because
[1:27:12] this is a large street front that said
we've since you know established south
[1:27:17] third as the place for our outdoor
community plaza um and we see them as
[1:27:23] working as complimentary with each
other. I don't disagree with you know
[1:27:28] that would a nicer larger plaza one day
be nice over here absolutely something
[1:27:34] as a secondary phase but budget and
other constraints made this very
[1:27:41] difficult
>> wasn't for sale
[1:27:43] » and they weren't for sale I mean we were
lucky to some extent that these
[1:27:47] properties adjacent to our municipal
lots made themselves available um at a
[1:27:52] time where it kind of worked for our
project. So, but I was just getting back
[1:27:56] to kind of where the impetus came was
from the planning process from prior to
[1:28:01] Garden Homes being on the scene. Um, I
lost track of where Randy went in the
[1:28:05] crowd. There he is there. Sorry, I went
into So, um, you know, doesn't mean down
[1:28:10] the line, you know, I I don't want to
say you we couldn't reprogramming now,
[1:28:14] but the deal that we've gotten to and
that we're all, you know, meeting
[1:28:19] professional staff and the governing
body has, you know, we've been talking
[1:28:24] about this space since the get and it
would be a a major turn right now to
[1:28:28] change it. I is that a fair thing to
say? Um, and I think as to no, we did
[1:28:34] not do a formal, you know, analysis, but
I can tell you my informal analysis is
[1:28:39] we're teaming over at the community
center where with programming needs. Our
[1:28:45] our boards and commissions want events
and we're having trouble finding places.
[1:28:50] Um, and so in my mind, at a minimum,
this is going to be additional community
[1:28:56] programming space, but we want to keep
it active. Um ultimately we we in and it
[1:29:01] wasn't shown in this design if we were
hoping Main Street would want to move
[1:29:06] into this space and use it to also do
incubator and other kinds of spaces. TBD
[1:29:11] we haven't had in-depth conversations
with them. They know that the that's
[1:29:15] where we're envisioning long-term office
being available in there. So we see it
[1:29:20] as kind of a but we don't want it to be
a dead space, but we also feel it's an
[1:29:24] amenity to the building and it's amenity
to downtown to have a covered space as
[1:29:28] well. Um, and it also could add an
element to our programming. So, I'm I'm
[1:29:33] jumping around, but I I guess yes, I
think it would be a major left turn at
[1:29:36] this point to reprogram. That doesn't
mean that in 30 years or 50 years our
[1:29:40] lease is out and if there's a better use
or we've decided on something, I'm sure
[1:29:44] we can negotiate a change with Garden
Homes. Uh, if if it if it doesn't work
[1:29:49] out, but I'm confident we can make it
work and we're going to have um get a
[1:29:53] lot of good use out of that space. Um,
did I cover Ian? That's the gist. Okay,
[1:30:00] » Patrick,
>> thank you. Um, just two things. One, I
[1:30:04] wanted to I don't know re-emphasize what
Seth said. I work on the uh or serve on
[1:30:10] the affordable housing authority and it
is very difficult to get uh even with uh
[1:30:15] people that have vouchers to find them
places because of resistance on
[1:30:19] landlords. and if there's a possibility
you could work with the burrow and our
[1:30:24] housing authority to maybe meet your
needs and you know again I don't know
[1:30:28] the details but it's certainly an avenue
you know we're pursuing that you know
[1:30:33] could get people
>> who have vouchers into affordable
[1:30:36] housing so that's that's a possibility
that we can work on and the second would
[1:30:40] be a kind of a suggestion for you all is
to put the numbers in a in a more
[1:30:45] readily uh accessible you know fashion
like it Like it's good to know that the
[1:30:52] existing houses that aren't part of the
burrow property, what it say 135
[1:30:57] something like that. So that's about 90
in school taxes. So if you put 90 up
[1:31:02] against $400,000, you can see that
there's a possibility it's not a
[1:31:06] difficult reach to meet or exceed that
number. So that would be a good thing to
[1:31:10] do. And then you could put up also the
fact that with 134 plus you know 150 odd
[1:31:16] units that's a lot of put traffic on the
businesses and so that in and of itself
[1:31:21] has a positive impact. But I think if
you made some sort of cheat sheet like
[1:31:26] that and make you know front page it
would go a long way and and also break
[1:31:31] down the various numbers that people are
rightly concerned with but have it you
[1:31:35] know very you know simple that a
carpenter would read.
[1:31:38] » I I agree. Yeah. We can definitely do
the cheat sheet fact sheet. I think
[1:31:42] that's a really good suggestion. Um, and
that voucher question we are going to
[1:31:48] look into the it is typical for third
parties to administer the affordable
[1:31:52] units. They do all the, you know,
vetting and qualifying and we can find
[1:31:56] out if that's if they if there's any
reason they can't. Uh, I don't, you
[1:32:01] know, I don't I it never even occurred
to me that that would be a constraint.
[1:32:05] So, we'll certainly look into it.
[1:32:10] Um, I want to thank everybody. I very
much support redevelopment. I want to
[1:32:15] thank everybody who put in a lot of work
on this and I want to thank Homes for
[1:32:19] their commitment to Highland Park. Uh, I
have two questions. Uh, the first is, is
[1:32:24] there any potential for acquiring more
properties or are you done?
[1:32:29] You know, another spot on Magnolia there
became available. Would you consider
[1:32:35] firing it? how we looked at it, but I
don't think it would make sense for this
[1:32:40] particular project.
>> Okay. And um my second question is you
[1:32:44] mentioned earlier that we're facing some
rising borrowing rates. Um you know,
[1:32:49] there's potential for interest rates to
climb more as we face inflation. How
[1:32:54] resilient are your plans to rise against
interest rates?
[1:32:58] » Before you answer, do you mind coming
up?
[1:33:03] Yeah, look, I I mean, we're,
you know, we're committed to the
[1:33:08] project. So, I think uh we we built for
for years through different um economic
[1:33:17] environments. So, yeah, just it doesn't
make it any easier. Hoping that over the
[1:33:22] next 30 years, things will e flow and uh
things will will come back at some
[1:33:27] point. So,
[1:33:32] partnering waits at a certain point it's
like back we can't do this anymore
[1:33:38] » I I have um two questions one relates to
um to the extent there are any
[1:33:44] residential uh tenants in many of the
buildings uh for the project even
[1:33:48] commercial tenants there are a few um
how are the residential tenants being um
[1:33:54] how are there how's that re relocation
being handled uh are they being treated
[1:33:59] uh and finding you know, a comparable
place uh to live. Uh that first
[1:34:03] question. So,
>> um Brett, do you mind fielding that one
[1:34:07] too?
>> Shouldn't we should invite you up here
[1:34:10] about your current tenants? Yeah, we're
we're always sensitive to current
[1:34:15] tenants and um recently we gave notice
um to the existing to the current
[1:34:22] tenants and uh I think it's through it's
you know it's a month beyond what the
[1:34:28] statute statute requires knowing that
you know folks will probably say hey can
[1:34:34] I stay longer and and I know with the
church we're we're having those
[1:34:38] conversations to see any tenants um you
know that they know of that uh can be
[1:34:46] impacted. We're we're trying to work
with everyone. So while at the same time
[1:34:49] want to be reasonable to hopefully get
the projects or we want to we're human
[1:34:54] beings too.
>> I can answer that.
[1:34:58] » Thank you. I would just um reiterate I
think it's important for um the burrow
[1:35:03] or or the developer to help tenants find
a comparable location uh with comparable
[1:35:09] rents and the extent that there are
moving costs and inconveniences that
[1:35:12] that somehow not be born on the backs of
the renters. Uh the second question um
[1:35:19] just you know relates to um I think you
have this concept plan and few slides
[1:35:24] ahead and um yeah thank that one that
was fun um there is a bus I'm like the
[1:35:30] bus guy but um one of the bus guys but
there was a bus stop um sort of at the
[1:35:35] corner of second and Ritton and um like
>> on on the on the north side
[1:35:42] » on the north side. Yeah. Well, well,
actually on the on both sides just
[1:35:45] there's there
>> isn't isn't it over here on
[1:35:48] » there's one on every block. Okay.
>> It's pretty busy will tell you it's
[1:35:52] probably too many bus that that being
said um there is a bus stop on beginning
[1:35:55] of each block as you head there's a
shelter.
[1:35:58] » Yeah. Um
>> that's why it's I think um given the
[1:36:03] investment in the you have a lot of
parking your building. Um there's a bus
[1:36:06] stop there. Uh I don't believe there may
be a bus shelter. I don't think so. But
[1:36:10] I think what you have is an opportunity
to really uh you know really make a
[1:36:15] space for people who are waiting for the
bus and make that a real kind of spot
[1:36:20] for people to now either be you know
shel you know shelter from the elements
[1:36:24] when they're waiting for the bus um you
know be able to take part of some of the
[1:36:28] activities along there. So I think
really making a that bus stop a real
[1:36:32] space and a real place uh and you know
sort of making that front um that would
[1:36:36] be something I could encourage you to
think about
[1:36:39] » and and you just joged my mind. Sorry,
you can say um one important benefit
[1:36:44] although it's you know it seems like
obvious but sometimes you we I forget
[1:36:48] too we we have a lot of driveways
cutting these sidewalk through this area
[1:36:55] because of all the individual parcels
that are there and this closes them with
[1:37:00] the exception of our pedestrian access
way here which is going to make it more
[1:37:05] safe for pedestrians but also allow us
potentially to expand avail available on
[1:37:11] street parking and one important point
that uh it was in a slide but we didn't
[1:37:15] really hit on it um to provide uh with
DOT approval ADA at least one but maybe
[1:37:22] we can do more ADA accessible spots on
Ritin. So we should think about your bus
[1:37:28] suggestion in that context as well. Um
[1:37:33] » hi so I just have a I just have a quick
question about the indoor outdoor 6000
[1:37:38] space. Um, right now I understand it's
like a 50-year lease and then after that
[1:37:42] it's up for renewal. Are there any terms
in the agreement about the renewal
[1:37:46] process? So like in 50 years about
generations, will my bankage see a
[1:37:51] storefront there or will that still be a
public space?
[1:37:53] » Still be a public space.
>> Okay. Now for a dog.
[1:37:58] Just wonder are any um studies being
done on the effect of new businesses and
[1:38:04] apartments on Rare Avenue because it'll
be bumper to bumper or the traffic
[1:38:10] lights going to be regular how many the
new businesses and apartments or the new
[1:38:15] cars.
>> That sounds like a traffic question
[1:38:18] which I'm not able to answer. I hope it
gets bumper to bumper and we have a lot
[1:38:23] of people walking around our town and
shopping in those shops. Uh so we're we
[1:38:29] know it's going to be I mean you don't
need to be a traffic engineer to be to
[1:38:32] assume there will be a little more
traffic as a result of this development.
[1:38:36] They have the parking um and you know we
have signalized intersections to help
[1:38:41] manage the traffic. Um but I'm assuming
DOT looks at these things and we'll have
[1:38:46] an opinion but we think this works. Um
[1:38:54] » hi. Um, also just continuing on that,
you just talk a little bit about
[1:38:59] explaining in detail where the parking
spaces for the the tenants and what the
[1:39:07] flow is. When I when I look at that, it
looks like all the parking will have to
[1:39:12] come in through all the
>> I I can explain the confusion. It's
[1:39:16] because I did the I did this uh the uh
>> Huh. Brett.
[1:39:22] » Uh but but well no because I don't want
to put Brett on the spot for my bad my
[1:39:26] layout. I stole from his plans uh the
landscape plan the first floor. So
[1:39:33] you're looking at basically and that's
the lower level of parking here. Okay.
[1:39:38] » Covered parking.
>> Yes.
[1:39:40] » So there's parking
>> and then there's and it's under So this
[1:39:42] is structured podium parking, right
Brett? I don't know what you call it.
[1:39:46] Maybe you could do a better job. But
what I was trying to show in one shot,
[1:39:49] which is hard to do, um, is that there
are two levels of parking, covered
[1:39:55] parking in in this area, right, Brett?
>> Yes.
[1:39:58] » Uhu. And the surface is the surface
here, which is more or less what we're
[1:40:04] used to as the surface parking.
>> Street level parking.
[1:40:07] » As street level parking. What's
interesting is because the topography
[1:40:10] here, Raritin's lower than here. So they
were able to tuck in a layer of parking
[1:40:16] at grade there, but then as you the
project moves back on the site, it's at
[1:40:21] a higher level and they could have
parking on two levels, but it's not like
[1:40:25] a deck where you can circulate within
the two levels. But Brett, please help
[1:40:29] me.
>> Yeah. Understand how everybody's coming
[1:40:33] in.
>> There's so here this is one way in on
[1:40:37] the lower level and then this is another
way in on the upper. The upper is not
[1:40:40] depicted here.
>> Okay. Um,
[1:40:42] » yeah, there's a Oh, sorry.
>> I'll try.
[1:40:44] » So, there's a 10-ft grade change from
Raritin to Magnolia. So, to play into
[1:40:49] the grade, um, we're able to have like
one level that's on the level with
[1:40:56] Raritin and then another level when
you're coming up Magnolia that will sit
[1:41:00] above it. So, it's two levels of podium,
but from the back, it's you're coming in
[1:41:06] at street level. But when you get
towards the front, you'll be one level
[1:41:10] above Raritin. You and those cars will
be behind these like brownstone style
[1:41:17] units. So, and in here on the Raritin
level, there are uh dedicated spots that
[1:41:26] are shared um parking that'll are
undercover. And this is an amenity deck
[1:41:32] above the parking. So, there's no units
sitting above here. It's it's an amenity
[1:41:36] deck. Um
and then these are the surface spots. So
[1:41:41] the circulation is like from this side
and then that side. They're not they're
[1:41:46] independent of each other.
Does that make sense?
[1:41:50] » And and I can assure you they're much
better exhibits uh pending for the
[1:41:54] planning board site plan review. So, uh,
when that becomes available
[1:41:58] » and there's also, if you can see here,
there'll be like an elevator and a
[1:42:04] there's an elevator here,
>> I think. Is it here or there?
[1:42:07] » Or it might it might be further up, but
there's a way basically accessibility
[1:42:11] from Magnolia to Raron.
Um, you could take the stairs, too.
[1:42:17] » Yeah. So, so, um, we could probably get
you a better, this was a highle, um,
[1:42:23] diagram. Um but the the the nuts and
bolts are there are 258
[1:42:30] spaces probably 30 something are out
here maybe in total the rest are in the
[1:42:38] structure.
>> Every everyone enters or exits on
[1:42:42] » you can enter the lower level this way
and you enter the upper level this way.
[1:42:46] » But those are the two entry points for
all the new residents
[1:42:49] » for the cars. Yes. the the human beings
can access their units as they're
[1:42:55] » everybody comes in or leaves in the
morning when they go to work and when
[1:42:58] everybody comes back the end of the day
kind of thing.
[1:43:00] » Fortunately, it doesn't really work out
that everybody's coming in at the exact
[1:43:04] same moment. But yeah, there there will
be times of the day where it will there
[1:43:09] will be peaks two ways.
>> Snor, you got to get in line.
[1:43:16] » No, no, behind.
>> Fine. It's fine.
[1:43:20] Okay. Um, so I just want to say I'm I'm
so excited to to be here tonight to see
[1:43:26] this moving forward, to see the
progress. I'm super excited for Bar
[1:43:29] Square. Um, I've been waiting for that
to to happen ever since the town tables
[1:43:34] were shut down after COVID. Um, one
thing I'm really excited about and
[1:43:37] really interested in is the public
space. And I was wondering what's going
[1:43:41] to be the process for deciding what goes
there, for programming it. What are the
[1:43:44] conversations going to be like? Because
I'm, you know, thinking in my head, what
[1:43:47] could go there? Like could we have an
ice skating rink? It's probably too
[1:43:50] small, but can the rec department get
involved? Will there be rec classes
[1:43:54] there? If there are going to be rec
classes, say like adult fitness,
[1:43:57] gymnastics classes for our kids, that
kind of stuff. Can the site be the space
[1:44:01] be designed for, you know, like have the
softer floors be designed to host things
[1:44:06] like that? So, I was just wondering
what's the process for deciding how that
[1:44:09] space is going to be used and how it'll
be designed and when would that happen?
[1:44:12] » Yeah, we've talked about that. We want
to have a committee, the rec directors,
[1:44:17] you know, both Ann Marie and Kim will be
very much involved as well as Main
[1:44:21] Street Highland Park because we see them
both as being frankly the most likely
[1:44:25] primary users and programmers of the
space. Um, and I think all of I think
[1:44:32] it's probably flex space is the word of
the day. So similar to how we use the
[1:44:36] community center, you know, to the
extent we could even do partitions so we
[1:44:40] can carve it up in different ways, we
were we were looking at that and we were
[1:44:44] discussing that with Garden Homes. So we
will be talking with them about kind of
[1:44:49] the fit out in more detail. We just the
agreement basically puts a pin in. We
[1:44:54] got to get restrooms, we got to we need
the plumbing, we need certain things.
[1:44:58] But certainly within reason, I'm sure
they will accommodate. If it's something
[1:45:01] we think is a value ad, we may have to
do additional, you know, special
[1:45:06] flooring or acoustics or something like
that, we would have to. But I think the
[1:45:11] most practical thing and what I see the
most need for is the kind of space
[1:45:15] you're describing. I just think it would
be great if you know to the gang could
[1:45:19] do their rehearsals there. You know,
things like that I think would be and
[1:45:23] and the arts commission has a a gallery
exhibit that could be open for time. You
[1:45:27] know, those are the kinds of things that
I've heard over the years that we just
[1:45:30] where would we put it, you know, um but
we we will have a committee that kind of
[1:45:35] formulates it and we'll obviously have
rules and facility use agreements and
[1:45:40] things like that, you know. Um but I'm
pretty confident we can find lots of use
[1:45:45] for it. Um so I hope I answered your
question.
[1:45:48] » Yeah. And just one thing I wanted to
clarify, I think you did touch on this,
[1:45:51] but is the closed space going to open up
entirely into the outdoor space? It's
[1:45:54] not like wide open, but there are large
kind of large door openings. I don't
[1:45:58] know if there Brad, I don't know if
you've gotten any further on the design
[1:46:01] of the those doors that would divide the
open and the closed spaces, but the idea
[1:46:07] is it breeds. So like my vision is, you
know, we've had these markets and then
[1:46:11] the weather didn't cooperate or wouldn't
it be cool to do it and you could have
[1:46:15] it inside outside still, but it you
you're not going like please please
[1:46:20] don't snow rain, you know, whatever. So
that was kind of the vision behind the
[1:46:24] the design process that we had with
Garden Homes.
[1:46:31] » I um my kind of like I just have some
curiosities. It's kind of similar to
[1:46:37] that. Um so like just to preface this, I
am definitely for renovating and and
[1:46:44] rejuvenating the downtown. Um, my
family's been living in Highland Park
[1:46:48] since they moved from Italy in the 50s
and we've all grown up in the town. So,
[1:46:53] I have a lot of respect for it and I
value the town a lot. Um, I was kind of
[1:46:58] thinking as you guys were talking is I'm
very curious to know because I was born
[1:47:02] in 2000 so a lot of this planning all
through the years I just I you know as a
[1:47:06] kid
>> where were you at
[1:47:07] » I know I'm not paying attention to it.
I'm so sorry. Um, but I'm paying
[1:47:12] attention now. I was kind of curious
what inspired it. Um because I've been
[1:47:18] hearing a lot of talk about like we want
more foot traffic. Um we want more
[1:47:22] people to come to our businesses which I
agree. I feel like our restaurants don't
[1:47:26] get as much business as they should
because they're very good. Um but I'm
[1:47:32] thinking like
as a a person in their 20s, a lot of
[1:47:36] like my friends, what makes them want to
come to Highland Park is like our
[1:47:40] community things. like the farmers
markets is like a really big one. Um
[1:47:45] sometimes like the businesses will have
little things like pinos or um the
[1:47:50] fitness studios. So I'm kind of worried
a little bit that we're having maybe
[1:47:54] like more restaurants potentially
because I'm worried that since they're
[1:47:59] not doing maybe as well as we want them
to that even though we have more people
[1:48:04] it just might not like attract their
interest. So that's why I was kind of
[1:48:08] curious like what inspired
this in the like what inspired everyone
[1:48:12] to want to do this and like design it in
the first place?
[1:48:16] » Well, as the exhibit I'll just say the
the need to kind of re redevelop and
[1:48:22] energize this area has been in the
burrows before I was living here. Okay.
[1:48:27] Um and working here for sure. Um and
this site in particular has been the
[1:48:32] subject to a lot of attention over the
years. Um, this particular mix was
[1:48:37] something that we collaborated with
Garden Homes on in terms of the
[1:48:40] restaurant. That corner would make it
makes a great
[1:48:43] » In the picture, it looks really like
stunning, you know.
[1:48:46] » Yeah, it it's it's it's a high because
of the way the road turns. It's a very
[1:48:51] prominent corner. We wanted to kind of
emphasize that. And while yes, we have a
[1:48:56] lot of really good restaurants. Um what
we heard from some of the ones that have
[1:49:01] come and gone was a that you know we
didn't have enough brick traffic built
[1:49:07] in um but also b some of our restaurant
space is awkward to put it kindly okay
[1:49:16] and we've all been in there you know
what I mean so they have weird
[1:49:20] stepups and ADA challenges and so this
is kind of I think a space for a larger
[1:49:26] format restaurant that wouldn't
otherwise be able to come to Highland
[1:49:31] Park. You know, hopefully more of a
funky mom and pop thing. And I know
[1:49:35] Brett has a lot of fun ideas about the
kind of ten that might go in there um to
[1:49:40] complement what we've got, not to try
to, you know, and and
[1:49:45] for some reason restaurants like High
Park. So, I think there is we are kind
[1:49:49] of a restaurant destination. So I think
there is some rationale but it's a
[1:49:53] combination of having a nice outdoor
dining like I don't know about you but
[1:49:57] when I'm looking for a place to go if
sometimes the first thing I think where
[1:50:00] can I sit outside you know and there's
not a lot of options just because of our
[1:50:04] sidewalks and our our spaces are so
small. So this is an opportunity to put
[1:50:09] a kind of destination uh restaurant uh
but so that's that's the theory. The
[1:50:14] theory is it rises all boats. We're not
doing this to poach business away from
[1:50:19] other businesses in town. this is
supposed to make everybody do better.
[1:50:23] Um, and by adding in a new dimension to
what's already there. I hope I answered.
[1:50:28] » Yeah. And if if this development does
well like with in terms of people coming
[1:50:34] to rent, the businesses are doing well.
Would Highland Park consider doing this
[1:50:38] to other spots of the downtown area?
>> Welcome to tract A. We'll talk about
[1:50:43] that another night. Yes, we have a lot
of ideas.
[1:50:47] OF THIS ONE.
>> SO, we hope this will be the snowball
[1:50:50] that starts the bigger snowball or
whatever that
[1:50:54] is.
>> And then just last curiosity is um I
[1:50:57] don't I don't know if it was mentioned
or not. Where where would the farmers
[1:51:02] market move to? Would it be that
indooroutdoor space or is it So,
[1:51:07] » I can't wait to get you on our mailing
list. Um, we're moving, we're building a
[1:51:12] plaza here, like a closing south third
to foot traffic, I mean to cars, excuse
[1:51:17] me. Opening it to people is what I'm
supposed to say. Um, expanding this this
[1:51:24] parking area, but also adding a lot of
function to this. Uh, so it's an
[1:51:28] L-shape, but the just like we take over
a parking lot now on Fridays, the idea
[1:51:33] is we'll take over this bigger parking
lot and this plaza on Fridays for the
[1:51:38] farmers market. So, we will it'll be
half a block away.
[1:51:42] » Okay.
>> Oh, yeah.
[1:51:45] » There we go. So, that's the concept
rendering and we're literally in the
[1:51:49] final stages of designing and
engineering and hopefully going out to
[1:51:52] bid in a few weeks so that we can
actually construct this.
[1:51:55] » Okay. And then in the meantime while
construction is going on, are we holding
[1:51:58] the farmers market or is it just
>> We're trying to align that this will be
[1:52:02] done before we need to be out but we
also have some plan B's we want to keep
[1:52:06] the market
we absolutely that is one of their our
[1:52:10] downtown amenities for sure.
>> That's great. Thank you so much.
[1:52:15] » You made it to the line.
>> I only I didn't see them. Um I really
[1:52:20] like I think the uh design is beautiful.
>> Oh, thank you. and better than I
[1:52:24] expected. Um, I really do like the idea
of the covered up area to sit. Um, and I
[1:52:33] wish that there were rendering up there
of what the apartments would look like.
[1:52:39] I mean, they should know what they're
designing and it's not in there. So, I
[1:52:44] don't know when that's going to be
>> You mean the interiors?
[1:52:46] » Yes.
>> Gotcha.
[1:52:52] » Maybe there's a place they can go visit.
Yeah. Do you have a
[1:52:55] development that has similar units?
>> Yeah, we're we're just opening up the
[1:52:58] angle. Go to our website and there's
there's many developments, but if you go
[1:53:03] to garden communities.com,
you can see some of the newer products,
[1:53:08] » but you don't have
>> So, we're working on the interiors. Um,
[1:53:12] I don't have like an interior elevation
I can show you, but they're going to be
[1:53:17] it's going to be a luxury product. So
>> my sister's looking at so
[1:53:23] that gives you a good flavor.
[1:53:27] » Hi.
[1:53:30] » Hello. Um,
I wanted to uh second um the the traffic
[1:53:39] study
um or necessity for it. Um because as a
[1:53:46] commuter I do have to deal with the
traffic very much.
[1:53:51] um coming in from uh RI 18. And as some
of you know, it backs up quite far. And
[1:53:59] uh with the new um
um apartments coming in, there will
[1:54:05] definitely be more people in cars. Um
hopefully because of where we're
[1:54:13] located, I mean, I hear you and I won't
disagree. There's going to be more
[1:54:17] people physically there than not, but
the location is good. We have the bus
[1:54:22] that somebody else raised, but we also
have walkability. I know that doesn't
[1:54:26] help you, but we see this downtown
location, especially in light of some of
[1:54:32] the commercial development going on in
New Brunswick now for the Helix project.
[1:54:37] Hopefully, we see some people who maybe
want to walk to work but want to live in
[1:54:40] Highland Park. But, but you're right.
Then they they will present their
[1:54:43] numbers to the planning board.
>> And Terry mentioned we are looking at
[1:54:47] some transportation opportunities.
>> Yes. And mayor wanted to mention we are
[1:54:51] also looking at other transportation
opportunities to help uh get people out
[1:54:56] of their single occupancy vehicle.
[1:55:01] » Uh and I don't know if this was
addressed yet, but I was wondering if
[1:55:04] there was an estimate to how long the
construction will take.
[1:55:09] » Two years is what's in the agreement.
Yeah,
[1:55:12] » they'll do it quicker, but that's
>> that but that's the outside gate.
[1:55:19] » And um do you know which streets and
parking would be affected during
[1:55:25] construction?
[1:55:30] I mean,
>> Raritan Avenue for sure because and um
[1:55:36] the but I don't know if we have the full
like logistical plan, but I think we're
[1:55:42] trying to minimize disruption to on
street parking in the neighborhood.
[1:55:45] Hopefully, they can do most of what they
need on the site itself. Um right,
[1:55:50] Brett,
>> it's a tight site. So, we're looking at
[1:55:55] that. What's the most efficient?
>> I could see maybe them needing to
[1:56:00] utilize the frontage and and you know,
we also have to keep access for the the
[1:56:06] you know, to the church's ADA entrance
as well. So, we're we're juggling a lot.
[1:56:10] I mean, if if you live in the area, it
will likely be disruptive uh during the
[1:56:16] till things settle in and rhythms
establish themselves. Um
[1:56:23] um and I was wondering if there was um
efforts made to um
[1:56:30] reduce noise of air and water pollution
their construction
[1:56:39] our developer I mean we're following
noise ordinances.
[1:56:43] » Yeah. We're sensitive to all that. I
mean, I don't know if anyone's here from
[1:56:48] Walter
um when we're doing construction there.
[1:56:52] » Step into the microphone.
>> Sorry. Yeah. No, I don't know if
[1:56:55] anyone's here from Walter Avenue when
we're doing construction over there. I
[1:56:58] know there was a lot of um unrest prior
to construction and I think everyone was
[1:57:05] happy on the street as far as I know and
we're very sensitive and we're we're
[1:57:10] hands-on like I'm not here today and
then leave like we we don't hand off our
[1:57:16] construction to a third party. We're
we're involved in every way with the
[1:57:20] project. So
>> and there's a problem like
[1:57:22] » yeah let us know.
>> People got to know garden homes
[1:57:26] directly. if you live in an adjacent
area, they'll give you their number if
[1:57:29] you have an issue. Um, you can always
contact me if you're having issues and
[1:57:33] we'll try to address them. But again,
it's a tight site. We're we're working
[1:57:38] in these these margins. You know, we're
going to have to all work together to to
[1:57:42] get through it.
>> And I I can say that River Road, that
[1:57:46] was certainly the case when we were
building River Road, there was a lot of
[1:57:50] worry about the construction debris and
constru all the things that were going
[1:57:53] on. And Garden Homeless is incredibly
accessible to all of the neighbors to
[1:57:57] say, "You got a problem? Give me a
call." And they fix the problem right
[1:58:01] away. So, we do work very closely with
neighbors to make sure
[1:58:04] » because we have the church right there.
I mean, really, you know, in there. So,
[1:58:07] we're going to have to to m you manage
that.
[1:58:12] » That's good to hear. Um, and last
question. Uh I was wondering if there
[1:58:18] was uh an effort to match the historical
character of art with the design of I
[1:58:25] guess the architecture.
[1:58:29] » That's right.
>> Absolutely.
[1:58:32] » You got to be same rule applies to you.
[1:58:36] Um, so one of the when we were talking
about the design, this walkway through
[1:58:41] here, this walk right there, one of the
things we talked a lot about was that's
[1:58:44] a characteristics of the walkways on the
north side, the ones that go in between
[1:58:49] um, you know, the catwalks, the catwalks
that are up and down. We want we those
[1:58:53] those are a version of catwalks to tie
into the rest of of Highland Park. We
[1:58:57] thought that was a really neat amenity.
That was just one that jumped to my
[1:59:00] mind. This is going to be like a place
where people can walk through from
[1:59:04] Raritton down to Magnolia just like in
many places um you know uh on the north
[1:59:10] side you can walk between the streets
right and so we wanted to make an homage
[1:59:14] to sort of that. Um the other thing is
that
[1:59:18] unlike many different places um as Terry
mentioned it's not one monolith all the
[1:59:24] way across. It doesn't all the way from
across doesn't look like one thing. It
[1:59:28] looks like five different things, right?
>> They look like New York brownstone.
[1:59:32] » So, you have you have things that look
like this. You have others that look
[1:59:36] more like the traditional apartment. You
have this right here. So, it breaks it
[1:59:39] up. And one of the things that we were
really intent on is that we didn't want
[1:59:42] to have something that looked like this
massive um uh institutional like
[1:59:48] building, right? Um which one of the
people that that um bid on this, that's
[1:59:53] what they were going to build, right?
And so we like the idea that there is
[1:59:56] some diversity within the um uh within
the project. So it looks like five
[2:00:01] different things rather than one big
thing. And we thought that was um
[2:00:05] characteristic of Island Park as well.
[2:00:10] » And and I would also just challenge you
to articulate what our architectural
[2:00:14] character of Highland Park is. I think
it's a very difficult uh question to
[2:00:19] answer because it kind of depends on
what era and what your personal taste.
[2:00:22] So I think we tried to strike a balance
between typologies and just the massing
[2:00:27] was what I guess I felt the most
passionate about was not having that
[2:00:32] kachchunk feel that the streetscape
varies. Those were things that we even
[2:00:36] put in the redevelopment plan you know
early days because we knew you know that
[2:00:42] was something that we had to manage.
>> Thank you.
[2:00:51] » Hi Alan. Hello, I'm Alan Williams, uh,
president of Highland Park, also on the
[2:00:57] environmental commission planning board,
but this is me as a resident. The
[2:01:04] you've taken away roughly 40 parking
spaces from the parking lot by the by
[2:01:11] the uh church.
It's got to have a m Yes.
[2:01:15] » What do you mean taken away? There are
only 30 plenty of them which if you come
[2:01:22] it's either 31 or 40 lots that are
spaces that are left.
[2:01:28] » Okay. And that has a major impact on the
church and all the organizations that
[2:01:32] use the church. And I mean it's bad
right now with
[2:01:39] uh traffic or parking spaces on uh South
Second and where's the where's the
[2:01:46] borrow going to do about that?
>> Well, I'll tell you during construction
[2:01:50] it'll be a challenge. Yes.
>> But but what we did was it wasn't by
[2:01:54] accident. Oh, just for a farmers market,
we're expanding the parking lot on South
[2:01:58] Third, a half a block away, we've added
public spaces. So, the idea is, you
[2:02:05] know, those same individuals who have
utilized the full parking lot, you know,
[2:02:09] during once we're fully up and running,
we should be able to I don't have all
[2:02:14] the numbers handy between the two
projects, Alan, but okay. But we're
[2:02:17] offsetting some of the surface lot that
is now being uh developed uh with our
[2:02:24] own public parking over here and it will
be public just like this was public.
[2:02:29] It's just not quite adjacent to the
church but it is a
[2:02:34] » and that was one of the reasons having
you know the the two ways in and out and
[2:02:39] all that stuff. And like I mentioned
too, there'll be more on street
[2:02:43] available because we've opened up or
closed those curb cuts. So we can
[2:02:47] rejigger the on street parking on Ritton
to add some and none of those numbers
[2:02:52] included spots on Ritton.
>> Okay. Has the church again. Has the
[2:02:57] borrow considered trying to lease the
Baptist church parking lot on Dennis and
[2:03:06] » we have had that thought many times and
had attempted communications
[2:03:12] periodically to different degrees of
effect.
[2:03:14] » Okay.
>> And one question for Mr. Johnson, you
[2:03:20] can have washer and dryers in the
individual units.
[2:03:23] » Yes, of course. washers and dryers in
the individual units. Yes.
[2:03:29] » Just for those who couldn't hear the
answer.
[2:03:31] » Council member Hershe, you had a
question or
[2:03:34] » I just had a comment. No, thank you,
Mayor. Nothing's
[2:03:39] » Thank you. Um, I want to just I I did
just want to acknowledge the comment uh
[2:03:43] regarding
uh regarding the the historical nature
[2:03:47] of Highland Park. Yes, sorry. Um, it's
it was and I am by no means taking
[2:03:54] ownership or agency over this, but but
it but that's it was super important to
[2:03:58] the council to take into historic
nature, how the town was developed. Um,
[2:04:04] you know, I mean, we have such an
assortment of Cape Cods, colonials,
[2:04:08] split levels, garden apartments,
apartment buildings in in Highland Park,
[2:04:12] but it's really exciting the diversity
of buildings, and that really was the
[2:04:15] impetus to to to give the appearance of
a of of a more diverse looking
[2:04:21] structure. Um I did just want to also
just mention um you know a couple years
[2:04:25] ago when I was leazison to the uh to the
historical commission uh we we uh we we
[2:04:31] received a grant uh that that actually
did a survey of all the properties in
[2:04:34] the avenue uh to examine their their
history. Um none is designated historic
[2:04:40] or lives up to that standard. But the
history is really important and I and I
[2:04:45] and and I'm I think we're all really
sensitive to that. I will note though
[2:04:48] that our history, one thing that that
study revealed,
[2:04:53] one thing that that study revealed was
that our history really is an automobile
[2:04:57] corridor uh that connects, you know, uh
New Brunswick to the world uh and the
[2:05:03] other way around. We didn't have a
planned public square. We didn't have
[2:05:07] the things that other towns might have.
And you know, it's just one spine of the
[2:05:11] state highway. So this really presented
a huge opportunity to create new
[2:05:16] history, create public spaces where, you
know, our community really can come
[2:05:20] together, you know, in a in in in a you
know, in in in a way that they can 365
[2:05:26] days a year. Uh so so so that was really
important. But the diversity in the in
[2:05:31] in the design, the walkthrough like
Councilman Hail mentioned, um uh uh and
[2:05:36] then creating new history uh is is is
essential. But I did just want to
[2:05:40] mention that that that was really a
sensitive issue for for the council and
[2:05:44] in our consideration for sure and it
will continue to be. Yeah. Thanks.
[2:05:52] » Good evening. I had three questions. At
the outset of this project, Mayor Foster
[2:05:57] had promised that the town would not
move forward until an equally suitable
[2:06:01] or better permanent location for the
existing farmers market had been fully
[2:06:05] developed and completed. Is the mayor
and council willing to assure us tonight
[2:06:10] that you are going to honor that
commitment and that the farmers market
[2:06:14] will have an adequate or better
permanent location in place before the
[2:06:17] four existing publicly owned lots are
sold to the developer.
[2:06:22] » Why don't you allow your question?
>> Okay.
[2:06:24] » It was also said at the beginning of
this that the council was being
[2:06:27] considerate of the tremendous liability
that the developer had taken on by
[2:06:32] purchasing those properties on Rickton
Avenue. Are you also considering the
[2:06:36] tremendous liability that every single
homeowner in Highland Park has in the
[2:06:41] properties that they have purchased in
this town? I mean, that's my single
[2:06:45] largest investment right now as my
house. Uh, for the developer, those four
[2:06:49] properties are probably nowhere near as
significant as they are to me. So, every
[2:06:55] action that you take tonight has to
balance not only the developer's
[2:06:59] interest, but the liability that every
single homeowner has and renter has in
[2:07:05] this town when you develop this
property. You're putting in a load of
[2:07:11] housing, uh, a little bit of public,
>> right, and one restaurant. And it just
[2:07:19] seems like you're ignoring a lot of the
development practices and ideas that
[2:07:23] came in early on. And then uh my
now I can't try to grab my third point.
[2:07:31] » They always come in threes.
>> It's late for me.
[2:07:36] » How about I start? I'll I'll and then uh
I'll take a stab at a couple. I don't
[2:07:41] want to speak for the mayor and the
governing body on your first question.
[2:07:44] That's not appropriate for me. Um, but I
because I've been working very hard on
[2:07:50] the new plaza on South Third, I could
speak to the fact that we're trying to
[2:07:54] move heaven and earth to get it open and
ready. But, you know, I know, you know,
[2:07:59] contracting in life, it doesn't always
jive. So, will they
[2:08:05] exactly line up? I don't know. But, we
are, I believe, committed to making sure
[2:08:10] the market has a place to operate. Um,
maybe not on February 1st. we might ask
[2:08:14] for a more of a spring start date. Um
but that we will have these these
[2:08:20] projects will come together uh nicely.
We just you know I'll let others speak
[2:08:25] to you know do we want to delay you know
a developer who's interested and ready
[2:08:31] to invest this kind of money in our town
for three more months or just you know
[2:08:37] inconvenience the market for a couple
months. I think that's the trade-off
[2:08:40] that we're looking at. We are hoping we
don't have to make that trade-off and we
[2:08:44] can get it all to line up perfectly. Um,
and then I'm not sure I totally
[2:08:50] understand the liability. I mean, I I
can attest to the fact that we did our
[2:08:56] absolute best to make sure the burrow
and as your representatives in this
[2:09:01] negotiation
got everything we wanted out of this
[2:09:05] project. Um, and we thought that the
community had asked for. Um, and we
[2:09:09] thought we, you know, when we've kind of
already expressed a lot of the kind of
[2:09:13] pieces of the deal and we feel really
good about where it came out and we take
[2:09:19] very seriously our roles as kind of
protecting the public interest in this
[2:09:23] deal. Um, and I too own a house here and
it is my single uh point of as do I
[2:09:30] believe every member of the council in
some way or shape.
[2:09:33] » Oh, sorry. Sorry, I forgot. But even the
renters have invested in your your
[2:09:38] message. So I I take it seriously. I
mean, you know, we we will never know
[2:09:43] because we have squeezed a little more
out, but we really feel like we got our
[2:09:47] high priority items addressed in in this
project. And I think Mar
[2:09:58] to answer your question about our
commitment to making sure that the
[2:10:02] farmers market have a home. We're still
committed to that that the farmer
[2:10:05] farmers market will have a home.
However, we have seen the weather that
[2:10:10] we've had this past winter and
construction does not go on in that kind
[2:10:16] of weather and we're hoping that we will
not have that kind of weather. But if we
[2:10:19] do and there's inclement weather where
the work cannot be completed, it it will
[2:10:24] take a step back because we'll have to
stop doing construction and what have
[2:10:28] you. But I can assure you that the
farmers market will have a home in which
[2:10:32] to operate.
>> Thank you.
[2:10:36] I thought of my third question too.
>> I see bought you some time.
[2:10:40] » The um right now you said earlier that
um it wasn't so much about closing south
[2:10:45] third to cars but opening it to the
public. I I fully believe that all
[2:10:50] streets are already open to the public.
We get to use them however we want and
[2:10:53] we just kind of prioritize cars on them.
But if you already have permission from
[2:10:57] the DOT for the last year and a half to
close that street to cars and open it to
[2:11:04] the public, why haven't you done so?
>> Well, we have a permit, but it requires
[2:11:09] a lot of intersection improvements. Like
we don't get it unless we do all the
[2:11:13] things in that space. the ballards, the
the signalized intersection, all of that
[2:11:20] work is built is getting built into
arterials design work for the plaza and
[2:11:25] will get rolled out and phased in
together. So, they didn't approve
[2:11:30] putting up concrete barriers and closing
the road whenever we want. They approved
[2:11:36] a very specific method of closure
inclusive of improvements to all those
[2:11:42] signals on do on DOT property which is
not going to be free. We're going to
[2:11:48] have to pay for that. So we felt it
would be better to just incorporate it
[2:11:52] so that we the phasing all works out so
when the pro projects ready to roll out
[2:11:56] we're we're good to go. Um and so that's
the answer. Yes, we have the approval to
[2:12:02] close it, but there's very specific way
we must close it.
[2:12:05] » Thank you.
>> And also speak about the underground
[2:12:09] infrastructure that you know we have to
get done.
[2:12:11] » Yes. Um on on South Third in advance of
the plaza construction. We are a couple
[2:12:18] weeks away. I apologize. Now, if you
live on South Third, we will be But the
[2:12:22] good news is we're replacing your water
man and cleaning and lining the sewer on
[2:12:26] South Third well before we build this
plaza because the last thing we want is
[2:12:30] a problem that requires opening up the
pedestrian plaza for repairs. So, that's
[2:12:37] going within the next two weeks. We've
already awarded that contract and that's
[2:12:40] going to be rolling. Demolition of the
two houses will follow the ones on
[2:12:44] either side of our existing parking lot.
Um we're just synchronizing those
[2:12:48] efforts. So um a lot of balls in the air
and the thought of doing temporary
[2:12:54] weekend closures or a permanent Yeah. We
just said we got to just do this as with
[2:12:59] one contractor in one one face.
>> All right. I think we're done with in
[2:13:05] person. I should check on the Zoom with
your permission.
[2:13:08] » Uh yes, please. If there's anyone on
Zoom with any question,
[2:13:13] your hands up. Is it you?
>> I'll put it down. Thank you.
[2:13:16] » We just want to note it's 9:15 and we we
want to conclude in another 15 minutes
[2:13:22] or so to wrap everything up.
>> So, we're going to be wrapping in 15. Um
[2:13:26] I mentioned at the top, but for those of
you who came in late, these slides will
[2:13:30] be up on our website tomorrow. Um once
we get the video uh up downloaded, we
[2:13:37] will upload it to our YouTube channel.
So we will have um that those materials
[2:13:42] available to you uh to look at in more
detail.
[2:13:47] » We have one more. Hi. Hi. Um I just
wanted to confirm or clarify what I saw
[2:13:53] the timeline um slide but the next step
didn't have an a date. So
[2:14:01] » which which I had two timeline sites.
I'll go to the first one.
[2:14:04] » Yeah.
>> This one. Uh no
[2:14:08] that there are a lot of the latter
timeline is contingent upon certain
[2:14:13] things happening so there aren't
specific
[2:14:15] » I guess my question is I know there's I
believe there's a council meeting next
[2:14:19] week is that correct?
>> Yes.
[2:14:21] » So what is the is there going to be
action taken on this all that council
[2:14:26] meeting? the the current plan is that
the redevelopment agreement which was
[2:14:31] not the the money deal but the kind of
who get what who is what we're getting
[2:14:38] community benefits what the the
developers committed to those terms that
[2:14:43] Joe presented in the first half of his
remarks we have that pretty well fleshed
[2:14:49] out and intend to authorize execution of
that redevelopment agreement at the next
[2:14:55] meeting with the mayor's permission and
the council support. It's not done yet,
[2:14:59] but it will likely be on the agenda. Um
the financial agreement we we're still
[2:15:05] like reading through and making sure
there's no mistakes, but we feel like we
[2:15:09] have the terms as you heard earlier
really well ironed out. So it could be
[2:15:13] as soon as October, the first meeting in
October that introduced along with this
[2:15:18] purchase and sale agreement uh event. So
the effective date I is is the date of
[2:15:25] signature Joe on the red development
agreement.
[2:15:27] » Yeah.
>> So once we execute that agreement a lot
[2:15:31] of this stuff flows but a big one here
is you know you know I don't know all of
[2:15:37] Brett's I would love to know all the
things but DOT is in there probably
[2:15:41] county there's probably some some other
it's not just burrow approvals there are
[2:15:46] other levels. um this is uh going to be
for storm water uh a major disturbance
[2:15:52] or whatever. It's a higher tier storm
water review that goes on and has to
[2:15:56] have a permit. So there's there's some
additional stuff which they've been
[2:16:00] working on. So we hope it's not 12
months but you know that's that's it. So
[2:16:05] then once we've got you know
commencement basically once they start
[2:16:09] construction they got two years.
>> And my last question is will these
[2:16:13] slides be posted online after the
meeting? I thought I said that. Yes.
[2:16:16] Sorry. Yes. So, the slide deck will be
there, the video will be there, um, and
[2:16:21] our contact information is also there
for any other questions that come up.
[2:16:27] » Very quick, just understanding what you
said before and understanding that the
[2:16:31] harshness of the winter, etc., I really
do think that
[2:16:35] delaying the developer
in line with a valued community asset
[2:16:41] like the farmers market is would be
acceptable to our community.
[2:16:45] » Okay.
to share.
[2:16:48] » Um, oh, we got All right. Did you know
the time was there? I didn't know.
[2:16:53] » Yes, I did. All right.
>> We start at 9:15. We're ended in 10
[2:16:56] minutes.
>> Okay.
[2:16:58] » Um, other people online that haven't
gone yet.
[2:17:00] » Uh, your hands up at home. Raise your
hand now.
[2:17:10] » We have no hands up. So I I understand
heard the clear, you know, you said it's
[2:17:15] late in the process and that it would be
really inconvenient bordering on, you
[2:17:20] know, pulling your hair out sort of like
to to change at this point. And I I try
[2:17:26] not to be a stick in the mud, but it is
like a once in a generation land
[2:17:29] assembly opportunity that's not easily
recaptured. And you know, I think even
[2:17:35] though it's late, it's not legally
impossible. And I think those at the p
[2:17:39] dollar pickers that are being, you know,
exchanged in this kind of development,
[2:17:43] those houses are for sale.
>> Oh, you're talking about I'm sorry. I
[2:17:46] thought I'm talking about I'm talking
about acquisition of the
[2:17:50] » We I don't look I would be happy to talk
with the governing body about phase two.
[2:17:55] » You know, I there's no money for phase
two.
[2:17:59] Well, if we get some redevelopment going
on, as opposed to I I understand
[2:18:04] » I'm talking about swapping out the
community benefit of the plaza,
[2:18:09] » the 6,000 ft of open
>> that I don't think is is is something we
[2:18:13] we could talk about.
>> I I and I think another point
[2:18:19] » I was talking about pulling my hair out
about the indoor outdoor cover and the
[2:18:23] design building.
>> Well, I again the that's the major
[2:18:27] community benefit. Mhm.
>> Um so in terms of what we're getting
[2:18:30] that has an assigned negotiating value
or assignable negotiating value, that's
[2:18:36] it. Um it's comparable in size and value
to some, you know, one or both of those
[2:18:42] properties that are next to the Burough
Square development. And land assemblage
[2:18:47] is really key. It's not easy to do. Um
we're not going to have a lot of
[2:18:51] opportunities to get, you know, another
$2 million to put into something like
[2:18:56] that. Um, so you know, and you mentioned
maybe in 30 years or 50 years.
[2:19:01] » You misunderstood me. You totally
misunderstood me. I'll clarify my point.
[2:19:05] » Okay. So, give me one second. The
>> what I was referring to was this space
[2:19:10] in in the in the building which you had
questioned which I understand your
[2:19:15] reasoning is couldn't we give that up
and reinvest whatever
[2:19:21] which which I and I think we can look at
both. We do we have a history in town of
[2:19:27] making investments in acquisitions.
I I could talk all night. We talk about
[2:19:33] tract A where we've done a lot of that.
Um this council has been very aggressive
[2:19:39] where appropriate, but I think we felt
we there was also a considerable amount
[2:19:43] of pressure to get this done so that we
could have a place for core functions. I
[2:19:51] see no reason why this couldn't be a
secondary phase of the bus. And that's
[2:19:55] how I I we got that feedback at our
community meeting on the plaza and that
[2:20:01] was kind of where the governing body
landed on it.
[2:20:04] » Uh but I have a member of the governing
body right next to me.
[2:20:08] » So throughout this entire process the
indoor outdoor covered space over there
[2:20:13] the the the public space that is in this
>> in my estimation was the number one
[2:20:19] priority that we heard from people that
they wanted that
[2:20:22] » by far. It was the number one. It was
number one from Main Street. It was
[2:20:25] number one from It was number one from
many many entities that said we need to
[2:20:29] have what public space are we going to
have a flexible public space. We reacted
[2:20:34] to that. We have addressed that. We have
done that. And so in the entire process
[2:20:41] that was something that we heard loud
and clear that that was what people
[2:20:46] wanted a part of what people secondly
both the house where the little yellow
[2:20:51] brick road and the one in the other side
of that we bought
[2:20:54] » we went out and we acquired those
>> brav thank you we have a history I think
[2:21:00] of acquiring property when we see a plan
and a way to do this right so as Terry
[2:21:06] said I I I think we certainly can think
of those as additional acquisitions.
[2:21:11] But what I'm what I'm trying to convey
is that as of now, as of this process,
[2:21:18] that indooroutdoor community space plus
the space over on Burough Square was
[2:21:24] probably the most important thing that
we kept hearing again and again and
[2:21:28] again from people that this was
fundamental that we had to get something
[2:21:31] like this. We had to get something else.
>> I have an interpretation. Okay. And as
[2:21:35] someone who does like survey work and
you know public process
[2:21:39] um I understand how these things go. My
interpretation of it is that when this
[2:21:45] development was first announced people
were very concerned about losing a
[2:21:49] farmers market and they wanted public
space. Excuse they were focused on that
[2:21:54] spot. They weren't really oriented
around the fact or the reality or the
[2:21:57] possibility or trusting anyone that
would get some other public space
[2:22:01] somewhere else.
No one was ever presented with the idea
[2:22:05] or the choice between would you rather
have a smallish space as a plaza here or
[2:22:10] a really big proper like square which is
the would have been a proper way to
[2:22:15] frame that and if it was presented as a
choice would you rather have this or
[2:22:18] that um I'm not going to presuppose the
answers you would have gotten but I
[2:22:23] think they would have been different so
um I I discount quite a bit the you know
[2:22:29] claim that that's what the public wanted
the public was given
[2:22:32] a finite set of choices that shapes the
response. And I'm not saying it was
[2:22:37] malicious. It's just sort of like the
momentum of the process and the way it
[2:22:40] evolves. Um,
which doesn't change whether or not this
[2:22:45] is feasible to change at this point. But
I do think, you know, and and how Park's
[2:22:50] budget coming up with two million bucks
to buy to acquire two new properties,
[2:22:55] it's tough. It's tough. and the value of
that indoor outdoor space, especially
[2:22:59] given the fact that you could turn that
into apartments or commercial space for
[2:23:02] the next hundred years. That's a lot of
that's a lot of resources to invest into
[2:23:07] that thing. That's the main community
benefit other than development itself,
[2:23:11] which obviously is huge, but that's the
main community benefit that we're
[2:23:14] getting. So, I mean, and we only get one
and I hear what you're saying that we
[2:23:19] can get it in another phase, but like
how are we going to come up with two
[2:23:22] million bucks in our little town? So,
that's why I'm a little fixated on it.
[2:23:26] Let let me suggest that um this is not
the only opportunity. So as you
[2:23:32] described that's a significant asset
worth money. Um you can envision a time
[2:23:39] 20 years from now where we'd come to
Brett and we say you know what we're not
[2:23:44] really using this space.
>> I don't want to envision 20 years from
[2:23:46] now.
>> My point is 25 years.
[2:23:48] » Brett what would you do to if we want
you want to buy it back from us right
[2:23:53] now? We have it for for 100 years at a
dollar. It's worth a lot more than that
[2:23:57] to you. You could envision a
possibility. I'm I'm challenging the
[2:24:00] point that once we do this, it can never
we could never monetize it.
[2:24:05] » I understand.
>> I think we can monetize it.
[2:24:07] » I think you partially, you know, backed
up my point because you're like in 20
[2:24:10] years like, well, that would to me not
what I'm looking at.
[2:24:13] » And and I also want to note that that's
a benefit to the developer. I mean, it's
[2:24:17] an amenity for his building that his
residents get to share provides an
[2:24:21] aesthetic to the building, but one that
he's not having to compromise more more
[2:24:25] units for. Um, he's, you know, because
that's checking the ledger for his
[2:24:30] community benefits.
No, no offense, but you know, um,
[2:24:36] so again,
>> the only other point is the other
[2:24:38] property is not for sale.
>> I'm sure they have a
[2:24:42] » that takes years and years, too.
>> I'm sure they have a price. I don't know
[2:24:44] if they have, you know, a family burial
ground in the backyard.
[2:24:47] » I'm going down around I I go I could
talk forever about the plaza. The one
[2:24:53] thing I want to mention because we did
look at that was a feedback from our
[2:24:56] community meeting last year about the
plaza. Could we expand? And I had like
[2:25:02] design concerns about it being too big
because to me some of the most failed
[2:25:07] plazas are ones that try to be too long,
too big, and they don't really. So I I
[2:25:12] think we would need an equally robust
plan for your idea.
[2:25:16] » Main Street's already come out with a
>> Well, it's just a long Okay, I don't
[2:25:19] want to get back and forth for for
Fridays, Randy and not for 20 365. And
[2:25:26] so I think this is much more what we
need on a most days of the week basis.
[2:25:32] That said, I think a phase, a secondary
phase that looks at those potential
[2:25:37] properties with maybe a little
development there that would frame an
[2:25:42] extended plaza would be really cool, but
we also want to see this project happen
[2:25:47] and we need a place to run our farmers
market in the meantime. So, we had to we
[2:25:52] had to jump. We had a a design that the
community does like. We had really good
[2:25:56] feedback on it. I'm not saying it can't
be improved. I I get the timing issues
[2:26:01] and I think you know just to know you
know I've been saying this for a long
[2:26:04] time other people have been saying this
for a long time. I think the the mini
[2:26:07] pause had its own momentum and it just
kind of happened and I sort of don't
[2:26:10] know how it happened but that became the
thing as opposed to focusing more on
[2:26:14] acquisition. But having said that um I
get that you want the development to
[2:26:20] happen it's really important that it
happens and you strike when the iron is
[2:26:23] hot and all the all the elements come
together. I really do understand that
[2:26:28] and I also really understand that. Um,
and then if that's going to happen, then
[2:26:32] you need to put the farmers market
somewhere and we don't own those things
[2:26:34] yet. Even if we decided that's the top
priority, that's still going to take
[2:26:38] time and then you're going to have to
re-engineer stuff. I get all that. It's
[2:26:42] unfortunate. I get it though. But how
how realistic is it really to be able to
[2:26:46] acquire those two properties outside of
like a redevelopment agreement for the
[2:26:50] town?
>> You're really realistic.
[2:26:53] So, you're kind of suggesting that we
condemn those properties just to have
[2:26:56] them
>> or make no pay for them.
[2:26:58] » Just make try to make an offer.
>> Just make an offer. They can't refuse.
[2:27:00] » But they're not.
>> I mean, a monetary offer, not like a you
[2:27:03] know, gangster.
>> They're not interested in selling. So,
[2:27:06] that would be the next option.
>> What's that?
[2:27:09] » They're not They're not interested in
selling at this point.
[2:27:12] » Well, I think you pay a little over
market.
[2:27:15] » Okay. All right.
So, no.
[2:27:19] » I'm sorry. Somebody said something. Oh,
sorry.
[2:27:23] Well, no, I'm not. That's why I'm saying
they're saying
[2:27:28] » it's amazing to say is that real
>> and and I think my point is maybe it's
[2:27:33] not.
>> I I
[2:27:36] » outside of uh outside of significant
windfall that will come out of rebellion
[2:27:42] with this.
>> All right. Thank you, Randy.
[2:27:44] » Okay.
>> Um
[2:27:46] » and this time we're going to conclude.
Oh, mayor, do you want to
[2:27:50] » set a straight
[2:27:57] » I want to thank everyone for coming out
and for all the questions you have. We
[2:28:01] will be posting all of this on our
website. It will be on YouTube, all our
[2:28:07] social media handles. So you can go and
if you have additional questions that
[2:28:12] you you think about or you need
additional questions answered, please
[2:28:16] email us and we will respond to those
questions as well and we'll make all the
[2:28:20] the Q&A's available online. Thank you
for coming out and thank you for lending
[2:28:25] your voice and your opinion to the
project. Have a good night.