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From the town manager, the town attorney or commissioners, public comments, I'll go so fast. I'm on a tear here.

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All right, we have a consent agenda to approve anything. Any comments on the consent agenda or polls?

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Here we accept it.

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The second.

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We have a motion in a second to approve the consent agenda.

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All in favor?

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Opposed?

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All right.

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So our first guest this morning is Sarah Herd.

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Chairman of the Martin County Commission.

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And a friend of mine, even though when I served on the Martin County Commission,

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we didn't talk for four years.

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but a woman that I admire and who has been a real asset to the county and those of us who

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favor slow growth and transparent good government.

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So please join me in welcoming Commissioner Herd and if you have questions for her,

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I'm for

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that.

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Good morning and thank you the most important thing that I have to express this morning is

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My sincere appreciation for Jupiter Islands resounding support on August 18th of all the

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precincts in Martin County in the election.

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Jupiter Island was the most supportive so it's great to have your support.

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I've been a commissioner for 24 years and so I will be a commissioner hopefully for 28 years

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being the longest serving county commissioner in Martin County.

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So just a couple of things about what's going on in Martin County, things that will be of interest to you.

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One is the harmony. Our staff has finished their final report for the application to have a future land use amendment change.

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Our staff are growth management staff and they have recommended denial.

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There has been a pause in the lawsuit.

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I don't know if story is going to come to us to make a decision about the future land use

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amendment or if they're going to pursue the lawsuit, we will find out another potential

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lawsuit that we're facing is last fall, culture homes, which is a national home builder,

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came to the county with a proposal to change the land use on approximately 400 acres of agricultural land to allow

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instead of 20 houses on that property which is the allowable density instead of 1000 houses on 400 acres.

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We denied them, and so they sued us, and then they went to the state legislature and got the house and the Senate to approve a bill that we refer to as the agonclave bill, which would allow them to put 1,200 homes on those 400 acres.

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The governor signed it into law, it became effective in July.

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They made an application to Martin County for a 1,200 unit residential community.

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And our staff did a wonderful job of evaluating the application and found that it didn't comply with the requirements of the legislation.

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So the staff recommended denial.

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culture has withdrawn their application, so we don't know if they're going to get us a new application

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or if they're going to make active, they're lawsuit who'll find out amendment 3, if it's

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successful in November will be a catastrophic change in Martin County. We are heavily dependent

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upon residential admiral armed taxes, particularly homesteaded taxes.

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44% of our budget is comes from residential admiral armed taxes.

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Most of that, those to public safety, pardon me.

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So we estimate that if Amendment 3 is successful in the first year,

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we will see a $42 million shortfall.

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second year, a $75 million shortfall, third year, $170 million shortfall, and that's out of

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$360 million.

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Public safety is not protected?

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No, it's not, and it consumes 66% of our budget.

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So, those are the highlights of what's going on in Martin County. Now, I'm happy to answer any

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questions that you have.

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You have some good news?

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No.

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Well, I think the denials are very good news.

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Yeah.

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We have firm legs to stand on so we're confident that we'll prevail.

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And will the county be taking a position on data centers?

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We are, as a matter of fact, I think our next meeting,

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not tomorrow, but the meeting following that,

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we're going to be having a presentation on a moratorium.

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And when we made a recommendation, it was a four-to-one recommendation to pursue a moratorium.

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Have you guys looked around at what some other states have done deal with us, Ohio is really

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leading the way with getting these data centers to be self-sustaining, if you build a data

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generation center with the stipulation, any excess power goes back to the grid.

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And now with cooling advances, air cooling and whatnot means that they're not no longer

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taking water out of the aquifer to cool this stuff.

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Because I mean, I think what's going to happen is you might see temporary moratoriums, but

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what's happened recently is the Department of Defense has come out with a finding of how

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far behind China.

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They're finding that we are falling and this is going to become a national security issue

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in which case all these moratoriums are going to be pushed up, pushed to the wayside.

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And my suggestion is working with the data centers to try and come up with a way to make

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themselves sustaining, so they're actually a benefit to the local tax basis.

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What have you without being an environmental problem is probably your best bet, rather than

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just getting in the way and not having a plan to move forward.

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because all the data center businesses have been really lacks in there.

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PR, they're not PR people, they're tech people, and they have an opportunity to kind of get out

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front of these things if you choose to.

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Yeah, I think that's reasonable, and I think it may be necessary, which is why we're pursuing

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a more touring.

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So we can keep evaluating rather than pursuing that.

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But there's a lot of states that have been, Ohio's a smart as so far of the ones I'm aware

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of, Texas hasn't done anything about it, and they're another big data center state, but

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Ohio has been quite clever about figuring out a way to take the inevitability of the data

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centers and make it a net positive for the state.

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It.

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Any other questions?

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Observation.

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I was driving around in just east of Laris Avenue.

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There's a whole bunch of, I don't know, townhouses going up in a bank and development across

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the street.

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It's a block that was empty and it's now being built up.

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Well, I'm sure quickly.

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I'm sure you've noticed that there's been a lot of change

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in Hobesound.

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It seems like all of our applications

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for a new development seem to be in Hobesound.

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Lots of storage facilities, for lots of townhouses,

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lots of multi-family, they're not huge developments,

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but they're sized up, particularly when they add up.

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There, I'm curious.

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Florida, I used to do a commercial development

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and up in the Northeast and in California,

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and part of our development plan was always

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traffic mitigation. Florida seems to be sort of reversed in that. And that there is no traffic

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mitigation tied to a specific development. It's tied to state funding which doesn't

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kick until after the development is completed, which seems really counterintuitive because

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you're, you know, the stacking up with these railroad between the railroad crossings which

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are a nightmare. And now the extra traffic on Dixie Highway and Bridge Road and whatnot, it

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seems to me that the town of Hobbsown and the county really could do a lot more towards

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getting ahead of the traffic problems before, I mean, you know, it's all fun and games until

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school bus gets tea-bombed over there.

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You remember that we used to have a Department of Community Affairs that was a state agency

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that reviewed all comprehensive plan amendments to make sure that these new proposed developments

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weren't having impacts outside of their jurisdiction, outside of their boundaries.

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So when a developer proposed a development that was going to diminish capacity on roadways,

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they had to pay a proportionate fair share in order to make up that additional capacity.

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We're excited.

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Did away with the Department of Community Affairs, we no longer have concurrency.

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We no longer have a way to force developers to pay for the deficiencies that their

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developments are creating in our infrastructure. So what's, you know, it's this county is going

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at a long time.

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Commissioner heard, thank you for coming this morning and thank you for all you do

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and you are a one woman argument against her limits. Thank you very much.

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And next on our agenda, we have Mr. Ken Pruitt of the P5 Group who will join us electronically

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is he ready?

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Yes, yes, he is.

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If I could just make a comment on Mayer.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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Good morning.

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I just wanted to recognize the fact that Ken spent the greater part of the day physically

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here last Friday, Senate memorandum with a complete breakdown and analysis of the impacts

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of the bills that came out of the last session and their effect to each individual

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department in the town and spent time with each department director going over those impacts

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and helping us really understand and wrap our heads around what some of these bills mean

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and what measures need to be taken to be in compliance.

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So, we appreciate a lot the time that you spend here Friday.

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I just wanted to say thank you, Ken, for that and turn it back over to the mayor.

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Right, that's true.

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You're just a morning man, a mayor and a mayor and a mayor.

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But thank you, and really, the thanks goes to Mr. Darlow for providing the opportunity

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opportunity for us to meet with the professional staff,

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although there are some amazing things.

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Let me interrupt you for a moment.

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Mr. Bruit and ask our IT department,

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if we could get a clearer.

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Is it us or is it?

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Oh, your Wi-Fi is all right.

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So, you're a little choppy in the presentation.

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I'll take a look at it.

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Is this better now?

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Yes. Yes.

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Okay. Well, thank you. And I want to thank Mr. Garlow and the team for the opportunity.

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There are some who are saying why are you starting so early.

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November 3rd election, it would be here before we know it.

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And it's important for us to get a general bond of the activities that are going to be taking place.

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particularly since we'll have a new legislature, a new governor, and so it's important that I

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Mr. Garland last made to to grade the response that we've been getting our firm has been getting

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from the professionals that I told him it was a net loss

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because in Tallahassee they work in 15 and 30 minute increments

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particularly when there's a one hour deadline and so the speed in which they have provided us

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With information and feedback, it's been quite frankly, it's been incredible.

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So, I needed to give a shout-out in queues to Mr. Garland and the team.

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For just being so responsive and Kimberly, of course, grateful for work and expediting this as well.

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So, that was important for me to be there to share what are the needs.

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and as we move forward, particularly as amendment 3,

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it comes up as we start to see if, in fact, that passes.

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So, Bill, if you could go to the first slide, please, sir.

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Well, amendment 3, I believe the commissioner heard,

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I can't even hardly add to what the term catastrophic that she used

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because, while there are some communities that will not be hit

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as much as others. We are going to be taking an indirect hit.

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Happens is that when you are seeing the type of numbers

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that will be seeing if in fact, if it passes, the indirect impacts

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and ultimately the direct impacts will be significant.

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cap. So just to give you a brief overview.

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It does the whole set exemption increases of $150,000 in $27,250 and $28. If you're a new resident, so if you're a student who has gone to another state and set up residency, they have for tuition purposes, or if you're a singer, and you're just like my son, served 12 years in the military.

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and now is a resident from here, obviously residency purposes, and North Carolina where

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you station and re-restation, if you come back to Florida, which is your home state, you

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have to wait five years before you're eligible to be able to get what the others will be

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if in fact, if it passes on November 3rd, on the business side of it, they're really going to be taken a huge debt,

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because they're in on-home stead, and their cap is going to go from 10 to 5 percent to 5 percent.

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And Commissioner Warner, you talked about, so public safety is not protected.

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The only protection here for anyone in the entity is education.

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The law enforcement, what they've done, is the legislature just called it a core service.

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So those core services are going to be public safety, infrastructure, and employee benefits.

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But if the ad the alarm goes down, extravagantly as commits in our heart, stated, there's not going to be any money to give those increases to the core services.

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So the course services could be the priority, but if you don't have the funds to provide

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for them, it's as if there weren't a priority to be getting with it.

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So I'm not saying that it's not important for them to be a core service, but what I'm

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sharing with you is the core hard reality is that exponential losses of these funds are

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And in fact, across the board, when we were meeting with the professional staff last week,

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you know, these are relatively just considered a recreation.

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Well, no one has a course service recreation and infrastructure, and John Duchak here

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was assisted on the manager.

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We have a conversation about changing the restoration to infrastructure, so it would be

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or a different category, which I completely and wholeheartedly agree.

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So the last on this point is that there are 29 small counties in Florida, and the

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given total candidates have stated that if a amendment 3 passes, that those small counties

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will be the priority now individually it's not a lot of money but when you put 29 small

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counties together the aggregate there's going to be enormous dust funds are going to come

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right off the top the legislative budget so what that does is that's going to impact your

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I'm going to emphasize how to sort of your large county as well.

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Of course it takes 60% for this to pass on November 3rd.

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No, I think you can go to the second.

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You can go to the next one for the debate.

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Page two, sir. Thank you.

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So the courts step down your original language,

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but in Florida, when a constitutional element is brought before the court,

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Secretary of State, and if it the courts can I,

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the Attorney General has the ability, when it's a joint resolution and constitutional amendment that's done by a legislature to change the language, and that's what happened.

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The Attorney General did modify the language that did say, which was struck by the courts,

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save our homes for excessive property taxes, and they changed it to increased homes

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that exemption and work cap on increases and non-unumsted copies assessment.

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And that is what will be on the ballot on November 3rd.

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I'm going to pause here to see if you have any questions on that,

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that I'm there unless you want me to go through the presentation we can come back.

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No, I think it's a good idea to ask questions now if there are any.

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I just, if there are so many devastating consequences for this proposal, why was it proposed?

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The governor wants to have something attached to his history of his, whatever, as opposed to just being the guy who decided to sue Disney, you know, because he has become a footnote and a joke. So why wouldn't this turn on him, too?

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because it's a state, because it's low hanging fruit for the populists.

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Well, is it an attempt, Mr. Pruitt, to rain in

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profligate spending in some counties with a one-size-fits-all

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across the state, and that one-size-doesn't fit all?

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Would that be a fair way to characterize it?

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Mr. Chair, I'm fond of it for me to try to share the motivations of the Governor or

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by frankly, any like an official, but it has been a consistent theme for Legislature

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and also the Executive Branch, the KICU, the CFO, doing the doge exercise throughout the

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It's been repeated that they have felt that local governments have been spending more than what they should have.

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But what this proposal does, I'm going to apply on the proposal.

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We accomplished back in 2008.

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I was sent at President of the time, Marco Rubio was a speaker, and we did a tax cut.

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We did a $25,000 increased exemption.

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We brought about portability.

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We took the tangible tax exemption to $25,000.

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But we did it with a scalpel.

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And I'm going to share with you our thought process at the time.

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It's there at times at the local government level that we was having.

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And the local government, but we also believe that the government, the best government, and the most effective government, is that government, which is closest to the people, and certainly folks from Fallahassee, while they have an opinion, and obviously that they have everything right to do what they did, is that what this is done is, it used to be the, like a marriage we have back and forth, you know, something that somebody does,

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or whatever. But this is, this is going to be, it will change in paradigm of the relationship

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between local government and state government. And what's going to happen is that many

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of the programs that have been delegated down to the local level, so I'm which you are enacting

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the next time the state comes to you and provides you with seed money, perhaps the first

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to three years. I'm not going to hold time that you're going to say no to it, but it's going to be very difficult for you to be able to do any programs.

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You know, unless you have a huge reserve, remember the reserves at the state are not recurring. There are one time flights.

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Because of the language, and I need to make sure that everybody sees this, it says that it talks about 150 and 27, 250,000, but what a lot of folks are missing is the last few words and just for the fact that they never have to.

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And it says on the ballot to increase the hope that exemption up to full says value that is the goal.

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So what's going to happen, and I'm going to give you the city of Fort San Luis is a great example.

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The meeting in price of the home in Fort San Luis is 325,000 dollars.

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When that's falling, takes effect in 2008, the exemption will be $250,000, that leaves

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them with $75,000 in value to tax, for every home and poor second losing.

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But what happens when the inflation factor is kicked in, and of course you've got your 3%

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they have our homes. But if you have inflation of 5%, 6%, for 7%, then what's going to happen

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is your assessment. In terms of your exemption, we'll be 250,000 this year. Next year

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it could be 260,000. The following year, 270,000. And of course, we're talking about

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success value year. And so it is going to have a to attend the words of commissioner

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and she was spot on. This will have a catastrophic attack.

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Commandment here if you move on to the next if you'd like to see.

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Well, okay, as soon as I pick myself up off the floor for this one, please do, Mr. Proin.

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Well, if you could go where it says presiding officers for the 27th and 7th section, or thank you,

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I appreciate it. So in November, after November 3rd, 2 weeks thereafter, we will have

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a new speaker, the new speaker will be Sam Garrison from Clay County, specifically

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from Living Island. And so he has been, he has served not only in local government,

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But he's also a former assistant, State Attorney, and then Jim Boyd is going to be the

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New Senate President.

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He has an insurance pack now, and in both of these leaders are very seasoned, and they're

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served, not only, obviously, in the house, but in the Senate, and also in other forms

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of government as well.

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So these are your two, these will be your two new presiding officers.

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Now, if we go to the next one, please thank you.

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I wanted to share with you about the turnover in the House of the Senate, and of course

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terminal units, the admin of terminal units, while we're seeing in the Florida House

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of Representatives, there are 120 seats in the Florida House of Representatives, all of them

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for collecting, there were contested seats, obviously, and longest, but what is striking

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is that out of the 120 seats that are up for the general election, 89 are contested.

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Now, what is telling you is the power of the infancy, there's no more.

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What has happened is you have a lot more races that are out there, it's a very visual cycle, because we all know.

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And then at the Senate, which we really striking is that there are 40 seats in the house, but only 20, because they go on two year cycles.

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So 20 will be at this cycle, 20 up next cycle. Out of this 20 seats, 18 are fantastic.

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So normally, it's kind of like a congressional member, they have the power of the infirmancy.

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I believe that those days, quite frankly, we're not.

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They didn't look if you go to the next one.

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We have

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a governor's race, y'all are extremely aware of that.

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We have barring Donald, who's the Republican, and he's a former United States congressman.

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that a lot of folks don't know that barring donals was also a member of the Florida legislature

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and he served in the state house.

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A different Charlie is on a Democrat side.

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He's a former Republican Congressman.

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He's now the Democrat and the Len Brown is running.

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So that will be decided on November 3rd.

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Mr. Garland, what I'm so important about meeting and we'll have self-signament

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meetings on that path is that you can imagine how many are leaving the Governor to

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stay in a situation and because obviously they know in November which

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going to be a new governor and they're obviously looking for new jobs and new

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opportunities. But you can imagine the number of new Governor right

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and also a professional staff. What was critical about us having a meeting is that

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can you remember third, there would be a transition team that will be set up,

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whoever's given it. And we want to make sure that we hit the ground running,

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the blood's not a spread. Because

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What dollars that are going to be available? We want to make sure that, obviously, the juvenile, yes, this fair share. I also want you to know that they've done a long term, this is a process that's done that they every year, they look three years out to see what the fiscal outlook is for the state.

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In 2027, the fiscal outlook is going to be a $2 billion debt to the state, unless you're

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revenue, and in 2028, it's going to be a $6 billion debt.

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Those numbers change because dynamics change in the coming of these coming go, but just

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you know that's why we're being very sensitive in terms of the amount of skinning of what's

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going to be available out there. But I can assure you that whatever is available, you know,

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we're going to make sure that we fight the fair share. And Bill, if you go to the last slide

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So, last next, well, we've already started once next, November 17th to 19th, will be the organizational session, and then committee meetings will start in earnest on November 30th all the way through February 18th and then on March 2nd will be the regular session, and then in the last regular day for session will be April 30th.

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So, I've

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met with Mayor and Commissioner, because that's all that I have.

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It's an update.

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There's a whole lot longer, but obviously, you know, we sensitive to your time, more

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than happy to come back and provide you with dates as the admin.

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We appreciate all that you do for us, Mr. Prood.

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Glad to have you on our side.

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And happy to help you fix that Wi-Fi.

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not as easy to hear as we had hoped, but I think we got most of the, most of the

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just of it, and at this point I will ask my colleagues if anyone has questions

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for Mr. Prood. This was taped. We could listen to it again if we needed to,

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because it is hard to.

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Yeah, yes, yes, it's all recorded.

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Could we get a copy of your slides by any chance?

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Yes, we'll have those.

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I can have those.

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All right, if we could get those distributed, please, Kim.

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And also, do you, are you aware of any campaign,

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which is promoting this to voters in the state of Florida this side of it?

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because I know real estate brokers have a $10 million campaign

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to promote the other side for obvious reasons,

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but is there any entity that is promoting the data,

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the information you presented today?

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Yes, Commissioner, the Association,

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and Madam Mayor of my,

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yes,

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Commissioner,

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the Sheriff's Association is opposing this,

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five-dimensional association is opposing this. All of your environmental groups are opposing

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us, but why greater association is opposing just so there are government, look as you know,

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governments can't do campaigning, they can provide information. And so that's what we're doing

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and trying to get the local governments to provide that information to their citizens. But there

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multiple groups, but as you pointed out, the realtors have put $10 million

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aside to go ahead and promote this. And that's the only group that I can think

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of that is actively on the proponents side of us.

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So, who sponsored this?

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But this was, this was the governor's proposal as the commissioner of filming as he, as he pointed out.

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This was, this was completely, the governor's proposal and the difference to the governor, you know, the house and the Senate, you know, passed it forward.

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This was, this was, this was the governor's proposal.

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All right?

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Great.

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Any more questions for Mr. Pro at you?

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Do you have a sense of the two Governor's potential candidates that are running?

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Have they declared a position on this publicly?

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Either of them?

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John the former Congressman, John Lee, is opposed to it, and Governor, if Governor Donald

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is elected, he is proposed that if it does not pass, that he would have the Constitutional

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Revision Commission, which means, on serving 20 years and then it's up to me in the next

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couple of years, that he would have simply to take a look at it.

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Thank you.

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All right. Thank you, Mr. Prude. Any further questions? Anyone in the gallery have any questions?

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All right. So thank you and we look forward to hearing from you again, Mr. Prude.

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I apologize for the sound system.

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Well, it would be helpful to have it clearer.

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I don't think you can tell how awkward it was here, but thank you.

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I apologize for that.

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Yes, we'll maybe that, sorry.

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We'll make the recording end of minutes available to the commission.

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And the slides also.

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Great.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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And now we have Dr. David Cribio, who is, has, oh, Mr. Dojock, would you please introduce this?

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Yes, thank you, Mayor.

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So on the agenda today, we have Dr. Cribio. Under the agenda title, Barrier Island Construction Considerations,

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What we're talking about is not to, say, address what town code requirements are for

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construction IAM, where the risks there, what we invited him to do, is to come in and

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outline what are the technical, meaning, engineering, et cetera, considerations that you

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should and must undertake when you build on a barrier, such as Jupiter Island.

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So with that, give his brief bio for those who haven't met him before, Dr. Creeble is the owner

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of Coastal Analytics, they've been working for the town since 2014 on various issues related

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to the beach to the inlet to seal up a rise.

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He was on our vulnerability assessment steering committee.

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He is well. He's also presented some findings that are specific to the island, which I believe he'll start touching upon in this.

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When we look at the 600 block in the island, we do have very special considerations of dunes.

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It's at which he has evaluated for erosion and potential impacts to the island.

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These are things that you'll see in his presentation today kind of play out.

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But he's also professor emeritus for the United States Naval Academy.

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He has been there since early,

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believed the late 1980s as a professor and now professor emeritus teaching ocean engineering

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at the Naval Academy highly qualified in a highly valued asset to the town in assisting

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us with these types of issues.

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So with that, I'm going to hand this over to him.

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He has a presentation to go through and then obviously we'd have some, I think, some drill-down

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questions because we'll not intend to do a fully assessed basements on the island.

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These are all bits of information that the commission should consider when starting to look at these more deeply.

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Thank you.

399
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:33,440
Good morning, Dr.

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Help me out here.

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Crabial?

402
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Crabial?

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Crabial?

404
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Crabial?

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My wife says when two vows go walk in, the second one does the talk in.

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So thank you, Mayor.

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Commissioners, Tom Manager, it's a pleasure to be with you.

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I haven't been here a while, so it's a pleasure to be back talking to you again.

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As John mentioned, he wanted me to address really a wide range of coastal issues pertaining to

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barrier islands, and so what I thought I'd do is partly talk about the risks of living

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on a barrier island.

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I think you're familiar with the hurricane risks, but certainly if you're on the ocean front,

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the storm surge is a risk, but the wave action is really the damaging part, and particularly

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the waves, of course, cause erosion. And as the graphic on the right is trying to show, if

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the doon erodes, there's a potential for the waves to kind of climb over the doon and wash

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over the barrier island. So that's one of the things we're kind of looking at when we talk

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about risks on the ocean side. The intercostal side is a little bit more benign. It's mostly

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the storm surge issue there. The waves are not really the big issue.

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How do you manage these risks

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These are sort of the tools that are in your quiver and the town, of course, and the state have setback requirements.

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But the beach nourishment and the beach district operations really are the number one.

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Healthy beach is the best thing you can have to protect the ocean side.

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And, of course, the town's been very active with beach nourishment, as well as do nourishment and do in reconstruction.

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The picture on the right shows a sequence of damage in the 600 block from hurting the coal with reconstruction and re-vegetation following it.

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And then as I'll get into talk today, building code requirements, both at the town level, at the state level, at the federal level, all come into play as well.

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And I'll try to review those.

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understand we have the rest of the data talk about basements, so hopefully we'll get there.

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I think the two most important things in terms of regulatory control of the coastal reason.

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Number one is probably the Florida Coastal Construction Control Line, the CCCL.

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I drew it as a red line here on the aerial photograph just about where we are.

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The state defines this as a zone of influence of what they call the 100 year hurricane.

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You might think of that as a storm that might happen every 100 years on average.

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But if you flip that around, it also as a storm that has a 1% chance of occurring every year.

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So, it's become the regulatory standard for addressing these types of impacts.

435
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:40,860
And the CCCL documents kind of the farthest inland extent of storm surge, wave effects

436
00:41:40,860 --> 00:41:43,060
and erosion of that.

437
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:48,400
And I think you're probably aware the CCCL does not prohibit building, but it layers

438
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,740
on a number of construction standards that have to be met.

439
00:41:53,580 --> 00:41:58,300
And it also tries to protect the due and environment, so it not only talks about building

440
00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:03,480
things, but it also tries to protect the the doon sediments that are there as well as the

441
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:04,060
doon vegetation.

442
00:42:06,450 --> 00:42:11,530
The other regulatory environments, which I'm sure you're familiar with, is the, are the

443
00:42:11,530 --> 00:42:16,690
FEMA flood hazard zones, and this is a copy of the FEMA flood map for this area.

444
00:42:18,090 --> 00:42:22,630
The FEMA also uses the 100-year water level as their basis,

445
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:27,970
but they define different zones.

446
00:42:27,970 --> 00:42:32,410
I might say at the outset that FEMA by itself is not really regulatory.

447
00:42:32,850 --> 00:42:40,130
It's a flood insurance metric, and but as I'll talk later, it gets adopted within the

448
00:42:40,130 --> 00:42:44,890
Florida building code, so the FEMA flood insurance zones, even though not really intended

449
00:42:44,890 --> 00:42:47,730
as regulatory zones, become regulatory zones.

450
00:42:48,570 --> 00:42:53,910
The important one is on the ocean side, what FEMA calls the VE, I like to think it is

451
00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:57,870
high velocity zone, that's where wave impacts are expected.

452
00:42:59,250 --> 00:43:05,130
On the intra-coastful side, they have what's called the A-E zone, I didn't make up all

453
00:43:05,130 --> 00:43:11,730
these things, but that's the name of the zone on the intra-coastful side and that has a low wave

454
00:43:11,730 --> 00:43:17,990
hazard, probably a technical point that I'll talk about with your building folks, FEMA also

455
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:24,030
also has what they call it coastal a zone, which is not in Jupiter island. Jupiter has

456
00:43:24,030 --> 00:43:29,950
them, steward has them, Jupiter island does not. These are inland inter coastal sides

457
00:43:29,950 --> 00:43:36,090
with large waves, and fortunately Jupiter island does not have that. Jupiter island has

458
00:43:36,090 --> 00:43:42,010
two what they call a ozones, and these are where the O, maybe for overtopping. This is where

459
00:43:42,010 --> 00:43:47,570
the waves are predicted to be able to come over the coastal dune, wash across the barrier island.

460
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:53,570
So there's one on North Beach Road, another one in the 600 block, there's two locations.

461
00:43:55,890 --> 00:44:04,330
The shaded X zone is the tan color on the map, and it is the 500-year, a more rare or more extreme storm.

462
00:44:04,970 --> 00:44:11,970
It's not included in regulatory zones now, but as I'll talk about later, it probably will be in 2027.

463
00:44:12,370 --> 00:44:15,150
It will become a regulatory zone for flood hazards.

464
00:44:15,690 --> 00:44:20,350
And then, in the middle, the area that's not shaded, where you just have the regular aerial

465
00:44:20,350 --> 00:44:27,130
photograph, that's what FEMA calls the X zone, it's kind of a silly name, but it's an area

466
00:44:27,130 --> 00:44:31,230
that is not regulated at all for the Federal Flood Insurance Program.

467
00:44:32,590 --> 00:44:37,170
So, if we go for a little tour around the island, this is part of North Beach Road,

468
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:39,110
turned on its side.

469
00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:45,250
At the bottom, the A-E-Zone floods most of the area along the intercostal waterway coming

470
00:44:45,250 --> 00:44:49,230
up to a kind of a blue curve boundary that I showed.

471
00:44:49,730 --> 00:44:55,850
On the ocean side, the V-E high velocity zone comes in and hits most of the coastal sand dunes

472
00:44:55,850 --> 00:44:56,770
in there.

473
00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:59,970
I should have mentioned the start that the...

474
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:12,740
Background, the red colors in the background are higher elevations, typically 12, 15 foot elevations, the green are down in the vicinity of four, five foot elevations.

475
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:24,860
On the North Beach road, on the left-hand side, you can see what's called the A.O. Zone, that's where FEMA predicts waves could wash over the barrier island in a hurricane.

476
00:45:24,860 --> 00:45:31,060
And then in white cutting through there is the location of the coastal construction control line.

477
00:45:32,020 --> 00:45:38,980
And probably use worth understanding that the CCCL and the FEMAZones essentially have nothing to do with each other.

478
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:44,020
We're developed separately for different purposes, but they both have become regulatory standards.

479
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:51,000
As we move along the island, the top panel, and then moving farther south in there.

480
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:57,720
You can see though that the CCCL, the white, and the v-zone boundary, the high velocity boundary,

481
00:45:58,180 --> 00:46:03,240
on the ocean side, more or less kind of track each other along the length of the island

482
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:04,880
as you move down.

483
00:46:06,100 --> 00:46:13,500
And as you go farther south into, let's say the 400 block of south beach road, the v-zone

484
00:46:13,500 --> 00:46:18,460
in blue is consistently farther seward of the CCCL.

485
00:46:18,460 --> 00:46:23,660
And then, as you can see, moving on down through blowing rocks and down to the 600 block.

486
00:46:23,980 --> 00:46:27,100
And you can see that shaded zone on the lower right.

487
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:33,400
That's, again, that overwash zone that FEMA predicts in the 600 block area.

488
00:46:35,820 --> 00:46:44,980
So, one thing I find disturbing about this is I mentioned already that FEMA and the state use different water levels.

489
00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:51,280
In theory, they're the same hundred-year storm, but they were derived at different times with different methods.

490
00:46:52,540 --> 00:46:56,880
And probably in red is the most important in the table.

491
00:46:58,620 --> 00:47:07,260
The regulatory elevation adopted by the state, a Florida Department of Environmental Protection, in the construction control line,

492
00:47:08,020 --> 00:47:12,240
varies from about 15 to 16 foot elevations along the length of the island.

493
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:23,040
And on the right, what I'm trying to show there is that regulatory elevation is sort of the highest level that the waves and water level can reach in the storm.

494
00:47:23,380 --> 00:47:31,500
So it's really not the still water level, or it's not what you would see if you really thought about a flood, it's where the waves are reaching above that.

495
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,820
And that becomes the regulatory elevation.

496
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:38,800
The FEMA 100-year level is seven to 10 feet along the island.

497
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:45,380
The part I mentioned I'm a bit disturbed, FEMA has remap the island three times, and essentially

498
00:47:45,380 --> 00:47:48,260
the water level that they predict keeps going down.

499
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:55,280
And probably in the most communities with homeowner's playing flood insurance rates, they

500
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:59,320
would welcome that, but it has caused a few issues which I'll try to discuss later.

501
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:06,160
Right now, in some of the regulatory zones, we have the state mandated coastal control line

502
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:11,820
elevation and the FEMA elevation, and as you can see, they differ by, in some cases,

503
00:48:12,140 --> 00:48:14,000
six to eight feet in elevation.

504
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:16,820
But they're both in the Florida building code.

505
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:24,970
John mentioned he's had me do some work on kind of the threat to some of the existing dunes,

506
00:48:25,050 --> 00:48:28,510
and I've just done a couple snapshots here of a computer model.

507
00:48:28,510 --> 00:48:47,810
In black is an existing ground topography across section up in the North Beach Road area, and you can see starting on the left the ground elevations roughly six feet and then rising up to a dune height at almost 16 feet and then dropping down to the ocean.

508
00:48:47,810 --> 00:48:57,050
In red is the eroded profile if I use the DEP-Hunter-Dear condition and it predicts that you

509
00:48:57,050 --> 00:49:00,470
could erode almost the entire dune in this case.

510
00:49:02,090 --> 00:49:07,570
With that, the dark blue line is sort of the water level without the wave effects and

511
00:49:07,570 --> 00:49:15,770
you can see that it actually could over top that red curve and that's partly why FEMA developed

512
00:49:15,770 --> 00:49:22,010
this overwash zone in North Beach Road area where they predict the water could go over the island.

513
00:49:23,390 --> 00:49:26,710
The dash blue curve at the top is where the upper wave crests are.

514
00:49:26,750 --> 00:49:30,930
That's where a house first floor would have to be in this zone.

515
00:49:31,470 --> 00:49:35,570
So to give you a little perspective, and I'll go very quickly just a couple examples.

516
00:49:35,790 --> 00:49:42,670
Working our way south, the top one is a little bit still in North Beach Road area.

517
00:49:42,670 --> 00:49:46,390
The dune is not quite as pronounced, but it's a little wider.

518
00:49:47,530 --> 00:49:52,790
And you can see that the erosion may go through the primary dune, but at least we predict

519
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:56,530
there that the water itself, the dark blue does not go over it.

520
00:49:56,710 --> 00:50:00,110
But wave effects up to the dotted blue could go over.

521
00:50:00,910 --> 00:50:06,170
And that's what, again, everybody's trying to prevent wave effects in these zones.

522
00:50:06,910 --> 00:50:10,670
As we move farther south, you can start to see that the whole island gets higher.

523
00:50:10,670 --> 00:50:33,670
And you can see that the dune has a little four dune, but then the, oops, excuse me, the ground elevations go up to 16 or 17 feet, and at that case, at this point, as we work our way south on south beach road, the predictions would be that we do not over top the dune, and we do not really interact with the homes along that.

524
00:50:35,350 --> 00:50:40,430
Continuing, farther south on south-beat road, the top example shows much the same thing.

525
00:50:41,130 --> 00:50:46,150
And then finally at the bottom, we get down to the 600 block, and that again is a vulnerable area.

526
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:52,670
Relatively narrow dunes with a potential to a road considerably through those in a storm.

527
00:50:53,310 --> 00:50:58,850
And as you can see, the dotted line can go over top of the eroded dunes.

528
00:50:58,910 --> 00:51:02,570
That's again where FEMA suggests we have this overwash issue.

529
00:51:02,570 --> 00:51:08,970
So it's not surprising, maybe that John and the Beast District have spent a lot of time working on

530
00:51:08,970 --> 00:51:11,250
doing reconstruction both North and South.

531
00:51:13,230 --> 00:51:25,790
It's strange that the highest elevation of our island is also where the largest threat of

532
00:51:25,790 --> 00:51:26,310
the waves.

533
00:51:27,110 --> 00:51:30,450
It's, I mean, our island is very significantly high

534
00:51:30,450 --> 00:51:33,430
in the east side of the island, and low on the west side.

535
00:51:35,730 --> 00:51:39,650
Yeah, the intercostal is just a little bit too narrow

536
00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:41,770
to have really large wave effects there.

537
00:51:42,110 --> 00:51:44,930
So for the most part, that's really not the main concern

538
00:51:44,930 --> 00:51:46,470
on the intercostal side.

539
00:51:47,070 --> 00:51:50,310
And on the ocean side, of course, you have wave effects everywhere.

540
00:51:51,590 --> 00:51:55,370
At the north and south, the dunes are relatively narrow,

541
00:51:55,370 --> 00:52:00,270
And in some case more intermittent, most of the middle of the island is much higher elevation.

542
00:52:01,210 --> 00:52:05,970
It's just strange that higher where the waves are.

543
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:06,750
I'm sorry.

544
00:52:07,450 --> 00:52:09,410
I'm happy to take questions as we go to.

545
00:52:10,030 --> 00:52:12,710
If it's a good time to take some more questions or.

546
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:16,370
I would urge my colleagues if you have a question just.

547
00:52:18,070 --> 00:52:18,330
Okay.

548
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:23,810
Well, let me turn now to how we manage that risk through the different building codes.

549
00:52:23,810 --> 00:52:29,970
And this is no more clear, I have to say, because there's a layering of different...

550
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:58,280
Friend, jurisdictions that come into play here. FEMA, federal emergency management agency with their flood insurance program is one. We talked about their flood zones. FEMA has construction requirements for people that want to qualify for flood insurance. Those also, however, get adopted in building codes as I'll try to explain. The one that you've probably never heard of, A-S-C-E-24.

551
00:52:59,660 --> 00:53:06,620
American Society of Civil Engineers is a professional organization and it adopts

552
00:53:06,620 --> 00:53:11,820
building standards and the reason it does that is that it's a professional

553
00:53:11,820 --> 00:53:16,500
consensus organization and that those standards can then be adopted by

554
00:53:17,260 --> 00:53:19,280
individual state building codes.

555
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,960
So ASCE24 has an extensive set of guidelines on flood protection.

556
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:30,760
And probably the most important thing to note about it is it adopts all the FEMA, flood insurance

557
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:31,340
regulations.

558
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:38,520
So everything that FEMA puts out gets adopted by ASEE 24, and then it gets adopted

559
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:39,620
by Florida Building Code.

560
00:53:41,540 --> 00:53:46,300
The Florida Coastal Construction Control Line, a separate entity, as we've talked about

561
00:53:46,300 --> 00:53:49,260
within Florida, and then we get to the Florida Building Code.

562
00:53:51,020 --> 00:53:57,020
This establishes statewide standards, but it has two sections that deal with coastal flooding.

563
00:53:57,820 --> 00:54:01,080
One of them refers to ASCE 24 and FEMA.

564
00:54:01,780 --> 00:54:05,140
So all the FEMA standards are buried in the Florida building code.

565
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:09,280
And the other one refers to the coastal construction control line.

566
00:54:09,460 --> 00:54:12,900
So all the state standards are also buried in the coastal construction.

567
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:14,620
Excuse me, in the Florida building code.

568
00:54:14,620 --> 00:54:21,060
So, the Florida Building Code basically is over arching document that includes these others.

569
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:26,160
I listed at the bottom here that the town building code also comes into play.

570
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,700
And the way these codes work is the town, the local jurisdiction, can always adopt

571
00:54:32,980 --> 00:54:37,560
requirements that are more stringent than the Florida Building Code.

572
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:44,340
Generally, not less stringent, but all communities are allowed to adopt more stringent requirements.

573
00:54:44,340 --> 00:54:47,880
So the way it kind of works in that is on the graphic on the right.

574
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:53,560
The town really is the dominant one because it can adopt something more stringent than the next one,

575
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:59,800
the Florida Building Code, Florida Building Code refers to both FEMA and Coastal construction control line.

576
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:08,160
So the question, are you aware of anybody or any municipalities that have tried to tighten their

577
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:14,900
building codes with standing behind the flood protection issue in the face of Senate Bill 180.

578
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:16,100
How is that?

579
00:55:17,020 --> 00:55:18,840
I'm not, you know, I don't live in Florida.

580
00:55:19,580 --> 00:55:22,920
So I wasn't aware of what Senate Bill 180 was attempting to do.

581
00:55:23,100 --> 00:55:26,640
So I'll have to dial any intelligence on that.

582
00:55:26,660 --> 00:55:30,500
I mean, I'm just curious when we're looking at RLDRs and all the rest of stuff.

583
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:37,220
You know, I think we pretty much all agree up here that the way the coastal construction line works

584
00:55:37,220 --> 00:55:42,180
As absurd, we're on one side of North Beach Road, my house is at six feet, eight inches.

585
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:47,360
And if I built it on the other side, I'd have to raise a thing up 1,011 feet or whatever.

586
00:55:47,600 --> 00:55:56,720
I mean, it's nonsensical for us, as an island, the way that the coastal construction line manifests itself.

587
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:04,600
And if we wanted to adopt a set of building standards that were more uniform to represent the real threat of flooding,

588
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,660
how would that work in the face of 180?

589
00:56:08,580 --> 00:56:10,160
There'd have to be done very carefully,

590
00:56:10,540 --> 00:56:12,460
and as Dr. Criple mentioned,

591
00:56:12,980 --> 00:56:14,460
the CCCL is jurisdictional.

592
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:16,840
It's all of those additional requirements

593
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,460
have to be met, if you follow, then that zone.

594
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,280
But what SB 180, the challenge it presents is,

595
00:56:24,420 --> 00:56:27,460
if you're passing legislation that's more restrictive,

596
00:56:28,460 --> 00:56:30,400
it could be subject to a challenge, right?

597
00:56:30,740 --> 00:56:34,400
There is, and time frame in which that law will.

598
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:44,860
Sunset, if you will. And you'll be able to explore legislation that will be more restrictive and its application.

599
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:48,780
But for now, that's what the law precludes.

600
00:56:48,980 --> 00:56:50,480
But even less we have another hurricane.

601
00:56:51,540 --> 00:56:52,840
Right. Exactly right.

602
00:56:53,020 --> 00:56:56,420
Well, our just becomes a political football.

603
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:01,360
Like the tax property tax stuff, it's just theater.

604
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,800
I will touch on these issues.

605
00:57:07,320 --> 00:57:14,140
There are a number of different counties in towns within Florida that have adopted higher elevations

606
00:57:14,140 --> 00:57:16,480
for construction land or to the control line.

607
00:57:17,020 --> 00:57:18,580
They've done that through two different ways.

608
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:23,720
One is just simply ordinances from the town that mandate and additional what is called

609
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:26,820
freeboard and additional safety margin, if you will.

610
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:31,960
The other one, I was going to mention it later, but the little box on the right that's

611
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:40,720
white, the FDEP Coastal Building Zone, the Florida Legislature has already established by statute,

612
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:45,880
what they call these coastal buildings zones and it's everything on a barrier island

613
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,600
landward of the Coastal Construction Control Line.

614
00:57:49,420 --> 00:57:54,020
I don't believe Jupiter Island has adopted any regulations in that zone, but a number

615
00:57:54,020 --> 00:58:00,420
of other municipalities and counties have, so that's already on the books that zone that

616
00:58:00,420 --> 00:58:07,340
established and it can be used as far as I'm aware. I'm not an attorney, so see what Kyle says about that,

617
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,580
but I think it's something that, you know, certainly the town should look at and be aware of.

618
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:20,180
So going through these codes, the Florida Building Code, which again includes all the other

619
00:58:20,180 --> 00:58:25,820
of things, tells you what you can build, how high to build it, and basically how to build it,

620
00:58:25,820 --> 00:58:30,220
those things. And I won't read through everything here, but I guess the important part is

621
00:58:30,220 --> 00:58:37,400
is generally the codes applied to new buildings, substantial improvements.

622
00:58:38,340 --> 00:58:44,000
So anything where you deem that more than a 50 that you're expanding the footprint

623
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:49,300
or expanding the value considerably or repair of major damage.

624
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:57,500
It's not intended to apply to existing homes unless or to modifications that stay within the footprint.

625
00:58:57,500 --> 00:59:05,220
those provisions are in all the codes, but I think the substantial improvement is the one that

626
00:59:05,220 --> 00:59:13,440
can trigger a lot because if you expanded on your property and let's say you had a separate

627
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:19,900
building, guest house or something that you were going to put in, if that can be deemed to be a

628
00:59:19,900 --> 00:59:25,160
substantial improvement to the entire property, you may trigger that other other other buildings on

629
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:26,980
property have to be brought up to code.

630
00:59:27,580 --> 00:59:30,940
So another area that I think has more legal questions

631
00:59:30,940 --> 00:59:34,520
than technical ones, but that's in the code.

632
00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:37,740
As we go through, there's quite a bit of difference

633
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:40,300
between residential and non-residential.

634
00:59:40,380 --> 00:59:42,680
Some things are allowed for commercial properties that

635
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:44,940
are simply not allowed for residential.

636
00:59:45,900 --> 00:59:49,540
And as well, between habitable places with living spaces

637
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,380
and non-habitable garages and things like that.

638
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:59,480
So I won't go through all the rest of this, we'll talk about each of these, but probably in terms of elevation.

639
01:00:01,010 --> 01:00:13,030
The picture at the right probably explains, the FEMA flood maps have what they call a base flood elevation, the 100-year water level, plus the wave crests.

640
01:00:13,070 --> 01:00:19,370
So the idea is that again, if you see a FEMA elevation, it always has the potential of including those wave effects.

641
01:00:21,450 --> 01:00:28,790
The building codes all have something called design flood elevation, where some level of freeboard

642
01:00:28,790 --> 01:00:29,630
has been added.

643
01:00:29,750 --> 01:00:34,650
A safety margin is put in above the FEMA mandated elevation.

644
01:00:36,250 --> 01:00:42,190
The Florida building code mandates one foot, so that's already built into the building code.

645
01:00:42,610 --> 01:00:46,870
But this is where communities, a number of them, have set higher freeboard levels.

646
01:00:46,870 --> 01:00:51,050
And I just listed two year different counties that have higher freeboards.

647
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:58,250
But that's a mechanism that both counties and towns have used to add a little extra safety margin.

648
01:00:58,690 --> 01:01:01,270
And that's all allowed within the building code.

649
01:01:02,470 --> 01:01:05,970
At the bottom sort of offset is this coastal construction control line.

650
01:01:06,170 --> 01:01:07,670
And it's again a different animal.

651
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:13,050
It has what they call the hundred year elevation for hurricanes, which also includes waves,

652
01:01:13,870 --> 01:01:15,650
but it does not include freeboard.

653
01:01:15,650 --> 01:01:17,790
and I don't think there's anything in the code,

654
01:01:17,930 --> 01:01:21,510
which allows you to add a freeboard to that particular value.

655
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,620
Okay, well what can you do to your home

656
01:01:26,620 --> 01:01:28,080
within the Florida Building Code?

657
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,320
So this slide deals with the ocean front,

658
01:01:32,820 --> 01:01:35,720
everything within the coastal construction control line

659
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,900
or within the FEMA wave impact zones.

660
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,360
In these requirements are pretty clear,

661
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:52,240
the bottom. It's a lot of verbiage. But the bottom of the first floor structure, support.

662
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:58,440
So any horizontal beams and things below the first floor, that has to be above the

663
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:04,940
design flood elevation, whether it's the hundred year hurricane for the coastal construction line

664
01:02:04,940 --> 01:02:12,270
or whether it's the design flood from the FEMA zones. So you have to be above the higher of those two,

665
01:02:12,270 --> 01:02:17,690
or the code always says this and elevates the specified by the jurisdiction.

666
01:02:18,290 --> 01:02:24,490
So that gives the town the ability to specify what they would like to do in this.

667
01:02:25,110 --> 01:02:31,710
In this high velocity, high erosion zone, large waves zone, everything has to be built on piles.

668
01:02:32,070 --> 01:02:33,350
So waves can pass underneath.

669
01:02:34,370 --> 01:02:43,610
structural fill is not allowed here to raise an elevation and build directly upon it.

670
01:02:43,970 --> 01:02:50,470
The coast of control line also restricts the amount of movement of sediment that's allowed

671
01:02:50,470 --> 01:02:53,610
and re-grading within that zone for environmental reasons.

672
01:02:55,430 --> 01:03:00,030
And then the bottom one, the space below this,

673
01:03:01,690 --> 01:03:04,720
the code in this zone allows three things.

674
01:03:05,710 --> 01:03:09,090
Parking, storage, and building access,

675
01:03:09,630 --> 01:03:12,290
stairways, elevators, that sort of thing.

676
01:03:13,690 --> 01:03:17,510
So there's no other uses mentioned in these zones in the code.

677
01:03:19,110 --> 01:03:21,930
That entire lower unit, if it is used,

678
01:03:21,930 --> 01:03:28,370
has to have what are called breakaway walls, so if waves hit them, they need to fail without

679
01:03:28,370 --> 01:03:35,810
taking the rest of the structure down with them. So that's a provision there, and dry flood

680
01:03:35,810 --> 01:03:41,830
proofing, that is making that space completely watertight is not permitted in this zone. So even

681
01:03:41,830 --> 01:03:46,230
with the breakaway walls, you have to have what are called flood vents, those are the holes at the

682
01:03:46,230 --> 01:03:48,270
to let flood water in and out.

683
01:03:49,650 --> 01:03:53,970
So, I'd say in this zone that restrictions and requirements are pretty clear.

684
01:03:55,870 --> 01:03:58,330
Somewhat less clear if we move to the intercostal side.

685
01:03:58,770 --> 01:04:00,750
Again, here we're not worried about waves.

686
01:04:02,810 --> 01:04:08,430
In this case, the Florida building code says that the lowest inhabited floor

687
01:04:09,010 --> 01:04:13,030
has to be above the flood elevation, design flood elevation.

688
01:04:14,150 --> 01:04:19,850
And here the word basement appears and if you look at the lower right, I've actually

689
01:04:19,850 --> 01:04:26,470
clipped out a little copy of part of the code on elevation requirements and I've highlighted

690
01:04:26,470 --> 01:04:35,370
in yellow what it says that the lowest floor including basement shall be elevated in conformance

691
01:04:35,370 --> 01:04:39,950
with that means to meet the water level elevations listed above.

692
01:04:41,450 --> 01:04:47,150
So, for something that's going to be considered a basement, it actually still has to be in

693
01:04:47,150 --> 01:04:52,930
this zone, has to be above the flood elevation, that's listed by FEMA on the flood maps.

694
01:04:54,650 --> 01:04:56,550
Structural fill is allowed here.

695
01:04:56,570 --> 01:05:01,070
You can build on it with slab on grade and other means, so it's a lot more forgiving.

696
01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:06,410
Anything below that design flood elevation has to be free flooding.

697
01:05:06,410 --> 01:05:11,110
So again, you have to have those holes in the foundation to let water in and out.

698
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:18,670
And here's a case where dry flood proofing, making that area completely water tight is not permitted for residential.

699
01:05:20,390 --> 01:05:24,250
It is, if you had a restaurant and a commercial property, but not for residential.

700
01:05:26,910 --> 01:05:29,070
Okay, well things get even more interesting.

701
01:05:29,970 --> 01:05:34,330
I mentioned earlier, the FEMA X zone is really the middle of the island.

702
01:05:35,070 --> 01:05:39,090
It's the area that does not appear in any of the other flood zones.

703
01:05:39,550 --> 01:05:42,170
It's the area here that's just the aerial photograph.

704
01:05:42,610 --> 01:05:45,970
It's not the high velocity zone on the ocean side.

705
01:05:46,610 --> 01:05:49,010
It's not the AE zone on the intercostal side.

706
01:05:50,230 --> 01:05:54,450
So everything in there is the X zone, which FEMA says is outside the floodplain.

707
01:05:56,850 --> 01:06:02,570
The state differs, in some cases, because the coastal construction control line,

708
01:06:02,570 --> 01:06:05,890
as it does in this photograph, cuts through that zone.

709
01:06:06,770 --> 01:06:10,250
So here's a case where on the right side of the red line,

710
01:06:10,970 --> 01:06:14,910
the state says it will flood, and you have to follow the flood guidelines.

711
01:06:15,570 --> 01:06:16,890
FEMA says it won't flood.

712
01:06:17,730 --> 01:06:20,850
But you have to follow in the Florida Building Code, the higher of the two.

713
01:06:21,030 --> 01:06:22,490
So you'd follow the state guidelines.

714
01:06:25,970 --> 01:06:29,150
If you're landward of that red line,

715
01:06:29,150 --> 01:06:37,730
And basically, that's not regulated by either the state control line or by flood provisions

716
01:06:37,730 --> 01:06:39,450
of the Florida building code.

717
01:06:40,690 --> 01:06:47,110
So right where the white ex zone is on the diagram, that zone is outside of any flood zone

718
01:06:47,110 --> 01:06:48,150
right now.

719
01:06:48,990 --> 01:06:52,330
And that is only governed by town ordinances.

720
01:06:53,770 --> 01:06:57,910
Because it's not in a flood zone, the Florida building code does not apply special flood

721
01:06:57,910 --> 01:06:58,410
provisions.

722
01:06:58,410 --> 01:07:02,870
You still have wind provisions, you have to meet, but no special flood provisions.

723
01:07:03,470 --> 01:07:11,510
So I think, as far as your consideration, that zone is the one that right now is unregulated.

724
01:07:12,050 --> 01:07:16,570
It is within, as I mentioned earlier, that coastal building zone that the Florida Statutes

725
01:07:16,570 --> 01:07:22,150
have already established, but that just establishes a zone, as far as I can tell, no requirements.

726
01:07:26,110 --> 01:07:29,970
All right, and I'm sorry I'm going kind of slowly through this, but I know you've

727
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:35,840
And discussing some of these basement type issues for a while. So that's kind of what I'm getting at here.

728
01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:48,600
The building code for non-inhabited structures says that at the top, you can see that the provisions

729
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:56,220
that we've already talked about in all the flowed zones would not necessarily apply to things like

730
01:07:56,220 --> 01:08:03,140
decks, or porches, or garages, carports, pools, et cetera, or accessory storage structures.

731
01:08:04,100 --> 01:08:07,060
All of those are considered non-inhabited.

732
01:08:07,340 --> 01:08:14,140
They all have somewhat less restrictive requirements, and I haven't bothered listening them,

733
01:08:14,260 --> 01:08:15,500
because there's a lot of them.

734
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:22,300
But the key distinction in here is whether it is structurally attached to the main house or

735
01:08:22,300 --> 01:08:22,800
detached.

736
01:08:23,340 --> 01:08:25,100
So that makes a big difference.

737
01:08:25,100 --> 01:08:31,680
The goal of all the codes is that if one piece of the structure fails, they don't want the whole structure to go down in a hurricane.

738
01:08:32,380 --> 01:08:38,920
So you can imagine that the ones that are attached to the main structure have more stringent requirements than those that are detached.

739
01:08:41,620 --> 01:08:46,380
I noticed, I noted here, though, from talking to John, we talked a bit about this word accessory structure.

740
01:08:46,580 --> 01:08:53,540
And I think there's a difference here, the building codes call an accessory structure by definition non-enhabited,

741
01:08:53,540 --> 01:08:59,460
Whereas I think the town may refer to accessories structures that might include things like

742
01:08:59,460 --> 01:09:02,040
guest houses or beach houses and things like that.

743
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:08,560
So that word accessory beware that it might keep doing that, sorry about that.

744
01:09:09,020 --> 01:09:15,060
It might differ between what the building code says and what the town considers those to be.

745
01:09:15,060 --> 01:09:29,600
As far as the Florida building code, any inhabited structure, like a guest house, or a beach house would have to meet the same elevation and construction regulations as the primary building.

746
01:09:30,580 --> 01:09:41,820
And the definition of inhabited usually means living space, cooking space, eating space, sleeping space. Those are sort of the things that distinguish what they call an inhabited structure.

747
01:09:44,460 --> 01:09:47,740
Good question. Good question. Good question.

748
01:09:52,020 --> 01:09:52,760
This slide.

749
01:09:56,060 --> 01:09:58,940
The box at the right is from the Florida building code.

750
01:10:00,900 --> 01:10:09,000
And they have a definition of what's called a loud use. And this is an interesting thing.

751
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:16,480
Remember, I talked earlier about how, in some cases, the coastal construction elevation is here and the FEMA elevation is here.

752
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:20,380
Well, this addresses how you can use that space in between.

753
01:10:21,380 --> 01:10:26,680
And I think it comes in to play in Jupiter Island, because remember FEMA has lowered their flood levels pretty low.

754
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:38,980
So if you meet the construction control line elevation, and if you stay above the FEMA elevation, you could easily have eight to ten feet of space in there to work with.

755
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:43,940
And that's where this allowed use comes in.

756
01:10:44,440 --> 01:10:48,820
And if you go through, your question on bathrooms is here.

757
01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:53,500
If you go through what it says, it says in all those verbs,

758
01:10:53,540 --> 01:10:56,280
the verb is there, bathrooms could be allowed in that zone.

759
01:10:57,160 --> 01:11:01,680
And it has recreational spaces, gyms, things like that.

760
01:11:02,620 --> 01:11:09,080
And then it has the uses of a similar nature in yellow, right there.

761
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:17,980
And again, I'm not an attorney just from what I've been able to glean this is where sort

762
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:24,320
of the interpretation of town officials comes in to play is what is a use of a similar

763
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:24,860
nature.

764
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:30,760
And I'm sure Kyle, you can probably help me out on this or whether lawsuits have yet been

765
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:38,760
But anyway, this kind of gets at that issue of how you use that space in between those two.

766
01:11:43,640 --> 01:11:49,280
And it's part of this larger issue then of how you use the enclosures that might be below a flood elevation.

767
01:11:50,060 --> 01:11:55,740
And I think I've mentioned all these things before that the code says parking storage access.

768
01:11:56,680 --> 01:11:57,580
Those things.

769
01:11:58,140 --> 01:12:01,840
If it's considered habitable living space, you have to elevate.

770
01:12:04,460 --> 01:12:13,100
I think I put in here, basements in the code are generally considered areas that have

771
01:12:13,100 --> 01:12:16,000
our below ground on all sides,

772
01:12:18,610 --> 01:12:22,790
so it would be below the ground level if you will, a bathtub

773
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:23,890
that would catch water.

774
01:12:25,330 --> 01:12:32,310
One way to distinguish something that might not be a basement is if it's not below ground

775
01:12:32,310 --> 01:12:33,190
on one side.

776
01:12:34,930 --> 01:12:37,130
So portions of it could be below ground,

777
01:12:38,170 --> 01:12:40,990
at least one side would be at ground or above.

778
01:12:41,710 --> 01:12:45,250
And what that would do would be to make it a free flooding structure.

779
01:12:45,690 --> 01:12:48,710
So you'd have flood vents, water could come in, water could go out.

780
01:12:48,730 --> 01:12:49,910
It would have a place to drain.

781
01:12:51,590 --> 01:12:55,310
So I don't know if that helps your deliberations, basements at all.

782
01:12:55,510 --> 01:12:58,990
It's a dizzying array of different requirements.

783
01:12:58,990 --> 01:13:04,690
But I think the simplest thing is that the the most clearly permitted uses are parking

784
01:13:04,690 --> 01:13:12,230
storage in access and beyond that you have that allowed use provision and that's where

785
01:13:12,230 --> 01:13:17,310
the town I think has to come in and decide what uses a similar nature are question question

786
01:13:17,310 --> 01:13:21,390
for you and I don't want to speak on behalf of the mayor but I'm just going to prompt you

787
01:13:21,390 --> 01:13:25,910
to revisit some of the comments that have been made up here and that is that the real question

788
01:13:25,910 --> 01:13:34,170
And as for us and our responsibility to everybody on the island as it were, when we allow

789
01:13:34,170 --> 01:13:39,630
a new structure to come in and permit a basement that's, you know, large square footage

790
01:13:39,630 --> 01:13:43,510
or roughly covers the same footprint as the structure itself.

791
01:13:44,010 --> 01:13:53,210
Are we in some way or compromising neighbors north and south, is there a scenario in which if

792
01:13:53,210 --> 01:13:59,450
you get a washover that having that basement structure where there wasn't changing the

793
01:13:59,450 --> 01:14:04,630
parkability underneath the structure, does that in any way compromise neighbor's north

794
01:14:04,630 --> 01:14:06,090
south or east or west?

795
01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:07,950
It certainly could.

796
01:14:08,510 --> 01:14:13,330
Well, if you're in a washover zone, most of the building codes have requirements that a

797
01:14:13,330 --> 01:14:18,650
registered professional engineer would analyze the water runoff characteristics.

798
01:14:18,650 --> 01:14:27,430
There's skepticism here as to whether the sort of state supplied engineers really a reliable source for that information.

799
01:14:27,710 --> 01:14:32,710
The floor is at a rubber stamp, and we're trying to be responsible to everybody's interests.

800
01:14:34,290 --> 01:14:46,450
We need to understand, or maybe you can help guide us towards better information, because that is an ongoing discussion that we have up here, and I hope I'm not speaking on your behalf.

801
01:14:46,450 --> 01:14:48,030
How do you voice out?

802
01:14:49,890 --> 01:14:50,250
Well, yes.

803
01:14:50,630 --> 01:14:53,810
I think as the

804
01:14:56,370 --> 01:14:59,970
local government, our responsibility is to...

805
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:22,900
And if we permit something, that's why we started our impact review committee, because you comply, doesn't mean you get to have an impact on your neighbors. And I've been curious for some time as to whether building underground affects the water table, the neighbors.

806
01:15:24,260 --> 01:15:27,380
Orosity next door, the, so.

807
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:51,940
And we do have some contingent liability as a legislative body up here from if you will, the person who we deny a permit to based on something we're not sure about to the people that, in a sense if we grant the permit and there's some problem down the road will, it's a, it's an easy shot to go back and look at the town as a target.

808
01:15:51,940 --> 01:15:54,600
so we'd like to have the best advice,

809
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:58,380
and if you could help guide us, that would be very, very, very.

810
01:15:58,380 --> 01:16:01,100
Yeah, I'd certainly like to take a deeper look at that.

811
01:16:01,500 --> 01:16:03,180
I think as a rough rule of thumb,

812
01:16:03,380 --> 01:16:06,340
what the building codes are trying to do is,

813
01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:08,880
first of all, prevent one building from failing

814
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:11,000
and the debris washing into a neighbor.

815
01:16:11,700 --> 01:16:14,140
So the building codes try to prevent that.

816
01:16:15,260 --> 01:16:16,800
And I'm sorry I didn't talk about it today,

817
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:19,700
but the whole issue of changing the flow of water,

818
01:16:19,700 --> 01:16:27,040
The codes do address that, again, they do require a professional engineering analysis of that.

819
01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:33,400
They don't really address groundwater, but I think on a barrier island, I would certainly

820
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:42,020
be concerned about that because, you know, to my knowledge, we don't know exactly where the groundwater table is

821
01:16:42,020 --> 01:16:45,180
around Jupiter Island, but typically it's above sea level.

822
01:16:45,860 --> 01:16:51,840
So, if you dug down on the barrier island, at some point you're going to hit a fresh water ground

823
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,540
water lens before you get down into salt water.

824
01:16:56,080 --> 01:17:02,200
And certainly by putting, at least what us Northerners would consider our basement, you

825
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:04,600
have the potential to disrupt that.

826
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:08,640
I don't have any means of talking about exactly how you would do that.

827
01:17:08,700 --> 01:17:14,560
But there are ground water experts that we do need help in that, because that's a contentious

828
01:17:14,560 --> 01:17:22,700
basement issue is contentious on a number of grounds and I think we need to have more facts

829
01:17:22,700 --> 01:17:29,800
to go with what we're working on our comprehensive plan looking at our development rules

830
01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:35,180
and there should be a focus on this but we want to make decisions based on facts because we're

831
01:17:35,180 --> 01:17:40,320
going to get sued one way or the other we'd like to at least get have a good defense that we started

832
01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:42,340
with facts rather than not.

833
01:17:43,300 --> 01:17:46,440
Does that make sense to you, Bob, can we talk further about getting

834
01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:50,820
obviously we're going to need criteria in our LDRs.

835
01:17:51,420 --> 01:17:58,080
But we need an expert to come in and say, no, you're going to impact this house,

836
01:17:58,320 --> 01:17:59,860
so you're going to impact the water level or something.

837
01:18:00,220 --> 01:18:01,800
So it's got to clear those hurdles.

838
01:18:01,940 --> 01:18:03,920
When we sort of have to have a fits all.

839
01:18:04,860 --> 01:18:09,460
I mean, if we're making a regulation as far as whether we're going to allow basements or

840
01:18:09,460 --> 01:18:16,200
allow basements at all. We need to have a question. The question is, is it going to meet the criteria?

841
01:18:18,700 --> 01:18:28,440
So, Dr. Cribble, how many barrier islands on the east coast of Florida are you familiar?

842
01:18:29,500 --> 01:18:34,120
jurisdictions on barrier I live on one part of the year in Brevard County. I'm

843
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:41,020
familiar with that working with the town of Manalapand right now so is anybody

844
01:18:41,020 --> 01:18:45,100
getting this right I have a feeling we're not getting it. Well the issue of

845
01:18:45,100 --> 01:18:49,100
basements doesn't come up very often I think because there's a pervasive feeling

846
01:18:49,100 --> 01:18:55,740
that many ways they don't belong on barrier islands recognizing that many

847
01:18:55,740 --> 01:18:58,780
There are islands are lower than Jupiter island.

848
01:18:59,140 --> 01:19:04,160
You know, you're fortunate that a lot of the island is at a much higher elevation, but

849
01:19:04,160 --> 01:19:08,460
I think certainly what we've talked about today, I would recommend we find a groundwater

850
01:19:08,460 --> 01:19:14,700
expert that could talk about that issue and groundwater surface water and the things I'm

851
01:19:14,700 --> 01:19:16,900
talking about the debris generation.

852
01:19:17,820 --> 01:19:23,200
Can you guys work together towards helping absolutely, right now, we'll try to find it.

853
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:24,240
Can I ask you a question?

854
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:32,900
How does that affect digging, and we don't have to get into it too much, but digging a huge pond?

855
01:19:33,140 --> 01:19:40,120
Does it affect groundwater, fresh water, salt water, the integrity of the land around it

856
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,600
if you dig the very deep pond?

857
01:19:43,380 --> 01:19:49,040
Yeah, as the pond fills up, the water level you see in the pond, the groundwater either side

858
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:50,680
is a little bit higher than that.

859
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:58,560
So, if you see water in upon collecting and staying there, generally the groundwater is a little bit higher on adjacent areas.

860
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:00,820
So, you can refer that.

861
01:20:02,660 --> 01:20:15,560
It's also, you know, geology wise, you have the, what's called the anesthesia rock formation, which crops up, blowing rocks, the visible rocks there, a part of that.

862
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:17,100
uh... bathtub beach

863
01:20:17,100 --> 01:20:20,600
uh... down upon beach they have some outcroppings there

864
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:24,240
uh... i don't think we know where those rock surfaces are underneath

865
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:25,980
jupiter island but

866
01:20:25,980 --> 01:20:30,660
as you know they're very porous and uh... so if you hit those then you have opened up

867
01:20:30,660 --> 01:20:32,220
a pathway to

868
01:20:32,220 --> 01:20:34,280
ground water does a different year

869
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,360
does a differential intensity between salt water and fresh water

870
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:38,880
help

871
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:42,480
prevent them from co-mingling or does it really not care

872
01:20:42,480 --> 01:20:44,560
i know it does yeah the fresh water

873
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,680
In some sense, it's floats on top of the saltwater.

874
01:20:48,520 --> 01:20:50,940
So usually if you have a barrier island,

875
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,420
saltwater on the two sides, saltwater under,

876
01:20:55,340 --> 01:20:58,420
and then they call the lens of fresh water,

877
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:00,460
and then of course there's a mixing zone.

878
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:04,460
So I think, I don't think Jupiter Island allows tapping

879
01:21:04,460 --> 01:21:07,900
into that for landscaping, but many jurisdictions do.

880
01:21:09,100 --> 01:21:11,740
And it's easy to pull up saline water in years

881
01:21:11,740 --> 01:21:12,820
where you don't have much rainfall,

882
01:21:12,820 --> 01:21:17,660
because that density do I'm gonna come to hate this thing.

883
01:21:18,220 --> 01:21:24,020
Just generally speaking, are you saying that Jupiter Island would have

884
01:21:24,020 --> 01:21:29,040
because of the changing topography that the building code has to change

885
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:32,480
within those environmental differences?

886
01:21:32,740 --> 01:21:38,440
Well, in some respects it already does because you've got, again,

887
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:41,480
sort of the ocean side building code requirements,

888
01:21:42,180 --> 01:21:48,260
the intercostal side, and then you have this section in the middle that at present as we speak

889
01:21:48,260 --> 01:21:55,540
that FEMA X zone is not considered a flood zone in the Florida building code, so none of the

890
01:21:55,540 --> 01:22:03,080
flood provisions apply in there. So that's really perhaps where a lot of your battleground is in

891
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:12,060
in that zone. There are jurisdictions that regulate adjacent to existing flood zones into

892
01:22:12,060 --> 01:22:13,120
that ex zone.

893
01:22:15,440 --> 01:22:19,700
So, part, and I alluded to earlier, there's a lot of uncertainty on what the

894
01:22:19,700 --> 01:22:25,700
hundred year water level actually is. So, a lot of communities have tried to hedge bets on

895
01:22:25,700 --> 01:22:29,980
uncertainties by establishing buffer zones, I think, in a-

896
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:42,240
Panelist County, they have that, they have a 300 foot wide buffer zone next to the coastal construction control line. They have different regulations there.

897
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:54,200
And I'm almost done, but I do want to alert you to what changes may be coming, and this will affect the island, and it will affect what you're discussing.

898
01:22:56,460 --> 01:23:07,560
The American Society of Civil Engineers has already approved a movement to make the 500-year hurricane level, the regulatory standard, not the 100.

899
01:23:10,140 --> 01:23:16,260
It's a 0.2% chance of occurring each year. I'm sure many of you are saying that's kind of ridiculous.

900
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:24,920
But it turns out, if you own your home for 50 years, there's almost a 10 percent chance that you could see that kind of flood level.

901
01:23:25,120 --> 01:23:36,360
So that's what's driving. And remember, too, that building codes get driven by Hurricane Sandy in New Jersey, Hurricane Harvey in Houston, Hurricane Katrina in the Gulf Coast.

902
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:44,440
So, those large losses are what's, you know, driving these changes, but already been approved to move to the 500 year level.

903
01:23:45,020 --> 01:23:49,140
Already approved to include sea level rise over the next 50 years.

904
01:23:49,660 --> 01:23:53,960
Right now, FEMA doesn't include sea level rise provisions at all.

905
01:23:55,300 --> 01:23:57,460
And the way that, sorry about my misspelling here,

906
01:23:57,460 --> 01:24:05,360
but the way they code would work then it would be the design elevation would become the 500 year plus sea level rise level.

907
01:24:06,080 --> 01:24:08,340
or the elevations set by the community.

908
01:24:09,340 --> 01:24:14,940
So, but this would significantly widen the intercostal flood zone.

909
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:19,100
It would push elevations higher and extend farther inland.

910
01:24:20,160 --> 01:24:21,800
And I've done some preliminary mapping.

911
01:24:21,960 --> 01:24:25,200
I didn't bring it today, but we could take a look at that.

912
01:24:25,700 --> 01:24:30,460
Now, this has been approved by the American Society of Civil Engineers.

913
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:34,060
The next step would be for it to be approved by the Florida Building Code,

914
01:24:34,060 --> 01:24:40,800
which hasn't been done yet, but I believe it's scheduled to be considered in 2027.

915
01:24:41,540 --> 01:24:48,280
So this is on the horizon and, you know, the question is how the town might anticipate

916
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:56,840
or work with that, FEMA notoriously doesn't remap often for sea level rise issues, never.

917
01:24:58,300 --> 01:25:00,820
So they're not likely to remap for this.

918
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:14,840
Your vulnerability assessment did consider C-level rise plus hurricane, but I don't think they did the 500 year hurricane, so that might be an add-on to that work to get that.

919
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:24,980
Sometimes I have adopted just an additional free board as a way to just in a very simple way capture some of these uncertainties, so that would be a potential.

920
01:25:24,980 --> 01:25:38,080
And then the part I'm intrigued with, as I mentioned earlier, is the Florida statute that has created this building zone, everything from the control line to the intercostal waterway.

921
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:41,060
So it is a defined zone.

922
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:47,320
Some counties and communities have adopted special regulations within that zone.

923
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:52,340
So if you have interest in that, there would be a next area to do, probably some legal

924
01:25:52,340 --> 01:25:54,760
research on what's been done.

925
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:59,040
But there are a number of different jurisdictions that have used that.

926
01:25:59,460 --> 01:26:09,600
So if I had to summarize, if you said this morning, I wouldn't be able to, but I can summarize

927
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:14,040
is my own personal concern here.

928
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:19,420
And that is that the current boom of building

929
01:26:19,420 --> 01:26:26,460
and development in Florida seems to be happening

930
01:26:26,460 --> 01:26:31,740
without real care, it's we're being

931
01:26:31,740 --> 01:26:35,680
inundated with people who have no experience in Florida.

932
01:26:36,980 --> 01:26:42,160
And therefore, no memory of how bad things can get.

933
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,080
And they come in and they see how beautiful it is and say,

934
01:26:46,380 --> 01:26:46,700
Oh, good.

935
01:26:46,840 --> 01:26:48,660
Well, I could make it even better.

936
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:59,540
And the pressure to allow development that may be improved.

937
01:27:02,120 --> 01:27:04,320
We have to deal with all the time.

938
01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:05,600
We never did before.

939
01:27:05,980 --> 01:27:08,540
Well, I shouldn't say never, but it is increasing.

940
01:27:08,540 --> 01:27:17,200
and so I personally would like to see this town implement

941
01:27:19,370 --> 01:27:22,230
building restrictions that

942
01:27:24,910 --> 01:27:25,990
discourage

943
01:27:28,330 --> 01:27:39,470
to often the ability to do improved development. But it seems to be all over the map

944
01:27:39,470 --> 01:27:55,010
In all of Florida, so with your help, well, if my colleagues agree that we want to be the leader in discouraging improved development,

945
01:27:57,330 --> 01:28:02,850
then we would rely on your help to get us there, because I'm bewildered at them all by the whole thing.

946
01:28:04,210 --> 01:28:09,670
Again, the last row of that little figure, the control line, I think, is well established

947
01:28:09,670 --> 01:28:16,010
and certain requirements there, both to protect the building and to protect the environment.

948
01:28:17,190 --> 01:28:21,370
Interestingly, in that coastal building zone, over the rest of the barrier island, if you look at the statute,

949
01:28:21,510 --> 01:28:27,630
it also is trying to protect the environment as well as any development in there.

950
01:28:27,630 --> 01:28:33,590
So I think, you know, you have the mechanisms to define the entire barrier island within

951
01:28:33,590 --> 01:28:34,730
the state statutes.

952
01:28:35,210 --> 01:28:39,990
And then the question is, as far as I can see, is what specific statutes you want to

953
01:28:39,990 --> 01:28:42,770
come up with within that building zone.

954
01:28:43,830 --> 01:28:50,070
You already have the Florida Building Code and FEMA requirements, which cover up against the

955
01:28:50,070 --> 01:28:50,990
intercostal.

956
01:28:51,950 --> 01:28:56,350
You still have that center part of the island, what FEMA calls the exon, which is basically

957
01:28:56,350 --> 01:28:58,570
the unregulated as far as flood.

958
01:29:00,550 --> 01:29:10,230
If I could ask, Mayor, so you suggested I believe, so I understand that there are adjacent

959
01:29:10,230 --> 01:29:17,250
zone regulations that some jurisdictions simply transfer to the ex-zone, is that correct?

960
01:29:18,050 --> 01:29:20,390
In that coastal building zone, right?

961
01:29:21,050 --> 01:29:27,490
So, for example, just a lot, I'm aware of a panellist county, they go from the control line

962
01:29:27,490 --> 01:29:34,330
and then they go 300 feet inland further and they have a special, they call it a Jason Zone

963
01:29:34,330 --> 01:29:39,750
that they have different requirements and then you have the rest of the area beyond that.

964
01:30:19,410 --> 01:30:26,150
I was going to interject, that if my colleagues wanted to...

965
01:30:26,150 --> 01:30:31,410
No, I thought it was very useful. No, I even though I didn't.

966
01:30:32,550 --> 01:30:38,790
I learned today that we need to get a lot smarter before we start making fancy changes to the LDRs

967
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:41,710
about basements and also we really understand this.

968
01:30:42,650 --> 01:30:46,330
We're going to get sued one way or the other. We'd like to at least get sued for the right reason.

969
01:30:46,330 --> 01:30:52,220
Well, I can't do anything about someone suing you.

970
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:55,520
No, no, but you'd like to get it right soon by doing the right thing, yeah.

971
01:30:55,520 --> 01:30:56,140
Bring it on.

972
01:30:56,500 --> 01:30:57,060
Exactly.

973
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:01,160
All right.

974
01:31:01,280 --> 01:31:02,580
We're back in session.

975
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:09,160
We are on a particular item five in your local agreement for fire rescue services.

976
01:31:09,380 --> 01:31:12,420
Yeah, so I can speak to that mayor.

977
01:31:13,980 --> 01:31:19,060
So this is an in a local agreement between the town

978
01:31:19,060 --> 01:31:27,520
and Martin County Fire Rescue that we've had for some years, and it's a direct reason why we

979
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:32,800
have the current level of service we provide on medical calls and emergencies here on the island,

980
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:38,540
including the response time that's quite incredible. The chief can get into more specifics if

981
01:31:38,540 --> 01:31:45,220
you would like about the operational aspects of it, but the current in a local agreement is a five-year

982
01:31:45,220 --> 01:31:52,740
agreement that was entered into in 2022, most recently, it's a five-year contract, it

983
01:31:52,740 --> 01:32:00,000
expires the 10th or 30th of 2027. His language in it that says that it can be renewed

984
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:08,760
for an additional five years, but that must be done no later than the 10th or 30th of this month.

985
01:32:09,660 --> 01:32:16,560
So, I negotiated with the Fire Chief and Accounting Administrator, the terms of the additional

986
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:21,320
five year renewal, and that's in the memorandum presented to you.

987
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:26,580
But I think you all know how critical this agreement is to the town,

988
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:29,960
and so I mean, what

989
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:36,700
we're doing is we're asking the commission to approve authorizing the mayor to execute

990
01:32:36,700 --> 01:32:39,200
said amendment on behalf of the town.

991
01:32:39,540 --> 01:32:45,520
I think this is the most successful negotiation I've ever heard of.

992
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,420
We would have been on the hook for another $8,9 million.

993
01:32:50,160 --> 01:32:50,940
Why a bit?

994
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:52,080
Over five years.

995
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:53,900
And you got that done.

996
01:32:54,940 --> 01:32:55,240
Well done.

997
01:32:55,400 --> 01:32:56,240
That is unbelievable.

998
01:32:57,620 --> 01:32:58,880
Oh, do I have a motion?

999
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:00,120
I don't want to make it.

1000
01:33:00,300 --> 01:33:00,840
I have a motion.

1001
01:33:00,840 --> 01:33:07,100
And that motion is, you want to state the motion.

1002
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:12,540
I'll make the motion a little bit.

1003
01:33:12,620 --> 01:33:14,980
In the local agreement, as far as services.

1004
01:33:16,240 --> 01:33:19,940
Asking authorizing the mayor to execute set amendment.

1005
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:25,840
Okay, so we implement and authorize execution of it.

1006
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:26,960
Motion?

1007
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:27,460
Yes.

1008
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:28,000
Second.

1009
01:33:28,480 --> 01:33:28,660
Second.

1010
01:33:29,940 --> 01:33:33,500
further discussion. Well done. Congratulations.

1011
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:42,560
Thank you. I'd also like to mention that this goes before the county commission for approval at their meeting tomorrow.

1012
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:48,180
I spoke with commissioner heard on a way out as for her support. It's on the consent agenda for tomorrow.

1013
01:33:48,540 --> 01:33:52,960
So I don't anticipate there being any problems with the county. Thank you.

1014
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:54,700
I believe what they put on the consent.

1015
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:56,560
Sorry.

1016
01:33:57,840 --> 01:33:59,960
Now we are on.

1017
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:00,740
Hi.

1018
01:34:06,820 --> 01:34:08,820
That is item five.

1019
01:34:09,500 --> 01:34:09,880
Six.

1020
01:34:10,220 --> 01:34:11,100
Item six.

1021
01:34:14,490 --> 01:34:19,350
And the first one is what, why don't you present?

1022
01:34:19,810 --> 01:34:20,150
Very good.

1023
01:34:20,450 --> 01:34:21,330
Thank you, thank you.

1024
01:34:21,330 --> 01:34:22,230
Thank you, American listeners.

1025
01:34:23,930 --> 01:34:27,830
So this is, this first item here is

1026
01:34:27,830 --> 01:34:34,110
The renewal for property liability workers compensation on a bill and ancillary insurance

1027
01:34:34,110 --> 01:34:35,070
coverages.

1028
01:34:35,230 --> 01:34:39,330
Most of those are done with the Florida League of Cities of the Florida Municipal Insurance

1029
01:34:39,330 --> 01:34:40,170
Trust.

1030
01:34:40,450 --> 01:34:45,050
The staff works for them each year to receive renewal proposals.

1031
01:34:45,930 --> 01:34:51,990
The quote came in at a 1.26% increase, which is about what staff is anticipating this year.

1032
01:34:51,990 --> 01:34:59,090
property, values or property insurance is pretty much a stable this year, you can see

1033
01:34:59,090 --> 01:35:04,810
as a $14,000 change there in the middle of the presentation there, 14, 14, 7.

1034
01:35:05,150 --> 01:35:08,530
The general liability is up 17 workers' comp up six.

1035
01:35:09,250 --> 01:35:13,790
So again, with all of the insurances, it is a 1.19% increase.

1036
01:35:14,830 --> 01:35:16,790
So staff is happy to answer any questions.

1037
01:35:16,790 --> 01:35:24,290
there was back up in this cover memo in the presentation, in the Commission's agenda, and so

1038
01:35:24,290 --> 01:35:25,570
looking for a recommendation on that.

1039
01:35:25,570 --> 01:35:31,410
Who we have a motion to approve the property liability worker's come and auto insurance

1040
01:35:31,410 --> 01:35:36,110
coverage with Florida Municipal Insurance Trust.

1041
01:35:36,110 --> 01:35:37,650
Oh, move.

1042
01:35:39,890 --> 01:35:40,670
And further.

1043
01:35:41,250 --> 01:35:41,910
And further.

1044
01:35:42,210 --> 01:35:42,970
You will not know.

1045
01:35:43,050 --> 01:35:45,410
Authorize a 10% deductible limit.

1046
01:35:49,470 --> 01:35:51,290
Property win coverage for named storms.

1047
01:35:51,550 --> 01:35:54,310
Approved,cillary, insurance policies with child,

1048
01:35:54,430 --> 01:35:55,830
crumb, and forester, and travelers,

1049
01:35:56,230 --> 01:35:59,130
statutory, accidental death, and dismemberment,

1050
01:35:59,990 --> 01:36:01,770
pollution liability storage tank,

1051
01:36:01,890 --> 01:36:03,010
fiduciary liability.

1052
01:36:03,890 --> 01:36:04,910
Is that part of your motion?

1053
01:36:05,130 --> 01:36:05,870
Yes, it is.

1054
01:36:06,110 --> 01:36:07,050
Do we have a second?

1055
01:36:07,050 --> 01:36:18,230
Second, any discussion? All in favor. Item B is a motion to approve a recommendation for

1056
01:36:18,230 --> 01:36:28,050
a motion to approve employee benefit providers and associated plans for fiscal 202627. Would

1057
01:36:28,050 --> 01:36:30,130
you present that place, Mr. Presence?

1058
01:36:30,430 --> 01:36:36,490
Thank you very much. So as we reported back in July, Bob had mentioned that we were working

1059
01:36:36,490 --> 01:36:41,390
with the gearing group on health insurance renewals for the coming year.

1060
01:36:41,610 --> 01:36:46,290
We were trying to keep it at a 5% max, which we were able to do that for the health insurance portion.

1061
01:36:46,850 --> 01:36:51,050
The total change that we're looking at is a 5.5% increase.

1062
01:36:51,190 --> 01:36:57,170
That includes a change in the dental plan of about $700,000, $700,000 for the year.

1063
01:36:57,930 --> 01:37:04,190
In addition to that, in the middle of the memo, staff recommends increasing the benefit in kind

1064
01:37:04,190 --> 01:37:10,170
dollars at each employee receives from $152 and $8 to $170.

1065
01:37:10,890 --> 01:37:13,570
This amount has been the same for the past 15 years.

1066
01:37:13,830 --> 01:37:18,710
And basically what this does is it's an amount that helps the employee pay for their premiums

1067
01:37:18,710 --> 01:37:20,110
that they have to contribute to.

1068
01:37:20,650 --> 01:37:22,550
So that was something that staff added in.

1069
01:37:22,790 --> 01:37:26,350
So that's why that change goes up from 5% to 5.5.

1070
01:37:26,350 --> 01:37:29,970
But again, all of the chain is allowed to about $124,000.

1071
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:37,920
Increase. SMRU covers about 40% of all the costs in the town covers the other 60, basically split

1072
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:42,300
of the employees. So the recommendation is there and happy to answer any questions.

1073
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:49,200
Any questions for Ms. Anske? Have a motion to approve the employee benefit providers and

1074
01:37:49,200 --> 01:37:56,080
associated plans? Floor to blue, medical dental vision, the standard, short and long term disability

1075
01:37:56,080 --> 01:38:00,760
basic life AD&D, voluntary supplemental life, and new directions,

1076
01:38:01,440 --> 01:38:05,080
BAP and the benefit and kind contribution increase.

1077
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:09,960
Shall I give it a so moved or go ahead?

1078
01:38:10,580 --> 01:38:12,820
Or do you want me to try and re-gurgitate all that?

1079
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:13,820
No move, so moved.

1080
01:38:14,340 --> 01:38:15,660
You would just be re-gurgitated by me.

1081
01:38:15,660 --> 01:38:17,960
I would be speaking in tongues, yes.

1082
01:38:18,340 --> 01:38:18,960
Thank you.

1083
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:19,660
All in favor?

1084
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:20,940
Any further discussion?

1085
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:23,020
All in favor?

1086
01:38:23,020 --> 01:38:28,720
five, five, a post, passes, item C.

1087
01:38:29,440 --> 01:38:29,880
Thank you.

1088
01:38:30,120 --> 01:38:37,040
Real quick, on B, I did want to mention that the town is offering a second insurance policy,

1089
01:38:37,380 --> 01:38:42,620
the employee would basically cover all the cost of the buy-up plan, but it was just another option for the employee.

1090
01:38:42,700 --> 01:38:46,140
If they wanted to have a little richer plan, they would have to pay for it.

1091
01:38:46,220 --> 01:38:50,240
So again, it doesn't change the cost of the town, but I do want to mention that as an option.

1092
01:38:50,240 --> 01:39:00,340
All right, item C is from monthly financial report.

1093
01:39:00,860 --> 01:39:02,880
So thank you very much.

1094
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:06,120
So this is the interim financial reports for August of 26.

1095
01:39:06,940 --> 01:39:14,880
Again, it's kind of the monthly summary of our budget to

1096
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:21,880
We're at about 104% on the revenue side, about 82% on the expenditure side with a target of 92%.

1097
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:28,780
So again, as we know, we collect our revenues early in our expenditures kind of, you know, pretty consistent throughout the year.

1098
01:39:29,900 --> 01:39:35,780
Nothing, nothing interesting to report other than what I usually state, which is building permits,

1099
01:39:35,780 --> 01:39:42,300
are up this time of year, had about 151% and miscellaneous revenue is up because of interesting

1100
01:39:42,300 --> 01:39:42,940
come.

1101
01:39:43,120 --> 01:39:48,320
On the expenditure side, everything is trending about where we expected and again, with everything

1102
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:53,340
known, especially the collective bargaining agreement that I mentioned each time, the PD

1103
01:39:53,340 --> 01:39:58,900
run about 87%, but again, with the 92% target, everything is in line, you can see the total

1104
01:39:58,900 --> 01:40:01,300
expenditures at 82%.

1105
01:40:01,300 --> 01:40:09,500
cash balances where we anticipate them to be and reserves are stable during the year because we don't change those until the end of the year.

1106
01:40:10,040 --> 01:40:11,540
So I have to answer any questions again.

1107
01:40:11,780 --> 01:40:15,780
That's just our monthly report on the financials.

1108
01:40:15,980 --> 01:40:17,500
Any questions on the report?

1109
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:20,100
All right.

1110
01:40:20,620 --> 01:40:27,900
Item D is request a motion to approve resolution number 954,

1111
01:40:27,900 --> 01:40:31,100
before, amending the general thund budget?

1112
01:40:35,660 --> 01:40:39,780
We have discussed this over the past few months.

1113
01:40:40,420 --> 01:40:44,380
Again, these are the final, hopefully this is the final and only amendment.

1114
01:40:44,640 --> 01:40:49,500
Technically the town could do another amendment before 60 days of the end of the year.

1115
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:52,560
So we technically have to about the end of November to do that.

1116
01:40:52,700 --> 01:40:54,620
We're comfortable with where we are today.

1117
01:40:55,060 --> 01:40:58,760
I do believe that this memo here where I'm circling up here.

1118
01:40:58,760 --> 01:41:02,380
I believe this may be different on your hand out unless I got out earlier.

1119
01:41:02,800 --> 01:41:07,720
It was just a change in the credit side from interesting to come to 75,000 to unassigned

1120
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:10,340
fund balance of 15,000.

1121
01:41:10,900 --> 01:41:15,540
But again, these are things that we've talked about during the year, legal fees, lawsuit

1122
01:41:15,540 --> 01:41:21,500
expenses, P5 group external relations lobbying that we did that contract during the middle

1123
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:22,340
of the year.

1124
01:41:22,340 --> 01:41:31,120
Some unfortunate generator repairs that we had to do, the schoolhouse septic tank, a couple

1125
01:41:31,120 --> 01:41:36,340
AC units, again, just as a matter of course of business throughout the year, we do have

1126
01:41:36,340 --> 01:41:43,540
some changes, so the amendment is for $854,900, this is the resolution here, and then on

1127
01:41:43,540 --> 01:41:51,340
the revenue side you can see $200,000 coming from interest income $654,900 from general reserves, and

1128
01:41:51,340 --> 01:41:53,500
then you can see how it's split out through the expenditures.

1129
01:41:54,220 --> 01:41:57,120
And again, it affects both sides of the budget,

1130
01:41:57,240 --> 01:41:58,480
the revenue and expenditures side,

1131
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:01,900
and it increases the budget by $854,900.

1132
01:42:03,060 --> 01:42:07,280
Do we have a motion to approve resolution number 954,

1133
01:42:07,340 --> 01:42:09,520
mending the general fund budget?

1134
01:42:10,140 --> 01:42:12,200
It is fiscal year 2526.

1135
01:42:12,700 --> 01:42:13,320
Bill moved.

1136
01:42:13,860 --> 01:42:15,000
Do we have a second?

1137
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:16,580
Any further discussion?

1138
01:42:17,060 --> 01:42:17,800
Any questions?

1139
01:42:18,220 --> 01:42:18,820
Any comments?

1140
01:42:19,120 --> 01:42:19,760
All in favor?

1141
01:42:22,980 --> 01:42:23,700
Opposed,

1142
01:42:26,390 --> 01:42:31,910
the tentative, item E tentative, annual budget.

1143
01:42:34,370 --> 01:42:35,690
Thank you again, Mayor, commissioners.

1144
01:42:35,970 --> 01:42:37,790
So this is our budget.

1145
01:42:38,210 --> 01:42:40,570
We obviously reviewed this back in July.

1146
01:42:41,150 --> 01:42:41,970
The proposed budget.

1147
01:42:42,150 --> 01:42:43,670
There are a few minor changes.

1148
01:42:44,170 --> 01:42:45,850
Nothing of any grants significance.

1149
01:42:46,010 --> 01:42:48,570
Obviously, we approve the millage rates.

1150
01:42:48,570 --> 01:42:55,950
So the tentative, the proposed intent of milled rates at the July meeting at 2.8259

1151
01:42:55,950 --> 01:43:00,970
mills for the general fund, which is the same milled rate that we currently have, it does

1152
01:43:00,970 --> 01:43:08,470
reflect a 9.89% increase over the rollback rate, which is what we had discussed back in July.

1153
01:43:08,790 --> 01:43:15,770
For the beach district, 0.959, 3 mills, again, the same milled rate that we currently have

1154
01:43:15,770 --> 01:43:19,730
and that represents a 9.91% increase over the rollback rate.

1155
01:43:20,710 --> 01:43:31,450
The electric underground debt will be going from a 0.210.21 millage rate to a 0.11880.

1156
01:43:32,430 --> 01:43:35,010
And that's about a 10.47% increase.

1157
01:43:36,590 --> 01:43:40,450
But I'm sorry, less decrease because the values went up.

1158
01:43:41,310 --> 01:43:43,970
Again, we have discussed the renewals here.

1159
01:43:43,970 --> 01:43:48,050
This was part of what we had talked about in July that we needed to approve these room renewals,

1160
01:43:48,230 --> 01:43:49,330
which we just did.

1161
01:43:49,670 --> 01:43:54,210
Talks about some of the other operating costs, professional services IT and repair maintenance

1162
01:43:54,210 --> 01:43:58,290
costs, which are affecting the proposed budget for 2627.

1163
01:43:58,970 --> 01:44:05,470
On the payroll side, we're looking at just above a 5% increase, which is what we had talked

1164
01:44:05,470 --> 01:44:12,130
about, excuse me, back in July, with that 3.4% cola increase, and then the balance being

1165
01:44:12,130 --> 01:44:24,750
merit increases. Benefits are looking at a point, I'm sorry, 10.4% increase and that's mainly driven by the public safety department's approval of the collective bargaining agreement from last year, which was approved late.

1166
01:44:25,470 --> 01:44:29,890
So again, those numbers weren't in the budget, so they reflect now in this current year's budget.

1167
01:44:29,890 --> 01:44:45,090
Operating expenses at 4.58% increase, again mainly on attorney fees, IT, building vehicle maintenance, consulting engineer, for roads, John's going to do a large road assessment at this coming year.

1168
01:44:45,290 --> 01:44:56,170
The ALS contract, which you all with the commission just approved, and then there's some reductions from the comprehensive plan, because we're doing that now, and then the resiliency consulting, which we had completed this year as well.

1169
01:44:56,170 --> 01:44:59,970
on the capital side of 48% in-

1170
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:07,200
Crease, proposed major projects include some increases or improvements to the FICA-SLA, and making sure

1171
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:13,820
that that is got a solid plan going forward. Public safety radios, road improvements, again,

1172
01:45:13,960 --> 01:45:18,260
as I mentioned, and then building improvements in an assessment over the public safety department,

1173
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:22,180
to see if they're going to construct a new building. And again, that'll come before the commission

1174
01:45:22,180 --> 01:45:28,360
before that gets expanded. New vehicles, and then some department wide expenditures. For the beach district,

1175
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:36,020
Again, a $4.3 million budget, about 11% increase overall, and no project main projects,

1176
01:45:36,700 --> 01:45:40,960
this coming year, but there are the standard site surveying, turtle, and short bird monitoring,

1177
01:45:41,100 --> 01:45:42,160
things like that.

1178
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:53,480
I guess the biggest thing really is the technical for the sand deposit that they're researching

1179
01:45:53,480 --> 01:45:53,860
now.

1180
01:45:54,180 --> 01:45:56,580
That'll be part of this next year's budget.

1181
01:45:56,580 --> 01:46:07,420
Electric Underground, we only have a couple more years left, and 27 and 28, those will be paid off by electric fund debt for the next years about $812,000.

1182
01:46:08,160 --> 01:46:15,020
And then we have conservative, the conservation fund, beautification fund, and Christmas fund that we also fund as well.

1183
01:46:16,060 --> 01:46:21,580
Our first public hearing is obviously tonight at 501, where we approve the tentative,

1184
01:46:21,580 --> 01:46:25,180
I've learned village tax rate in the annual budgets.

1185
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:29,220
Happy to answer any questions about the budget itself.

1186
01:46:29,380 --> 01:46:31,640
Again, kind of went through the highlights there.

1187
01:46:32,940 --> 01:46:35,280
We went through it pretty well, back in July,

1188
01:46:35,460 --> 01:46:36,760
so happy to answer any questions.

1189
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:42,620
Well, I'm still looking for the elevator speech

1190
01:46:42,620 --> 01:46:46,340
where a resident says, wait a minute,

1191
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:51,020
if all these values going up, why aren't we

1192
01:46:51,020 --> 01:46:52,280
getting a dividend,

1193
01:46:54,340 --> 01:47:00,360
and it is insufficient for me to say, well, because our expenses have gone

1194
01:47:00,360 --> 01:47:08,400
up to, have they gone up commensurately or so. And I don't expect you to do it. Now if you

1195
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:14,520
could just have that right before me this evening, because I've had that question several

1196
01:47:14,520 --> 01:47:23,080
times over the summer and I don't feel I'm normally mad points out to areas I mean we you

1197
01:47:23,080 --> 01:47:30,280
know we have basic inflation issues and then we have the annual insurance rate problems which

1198
01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:34,800
everybody's I mean we're we are you know the tides going up and all the boats going up

1199
01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:40,800
at base everything costs more I mean we we spent so much this year on just generator expenses

1200
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:45,240
trying to keep all of our generators up, you know, he or he just even on the island, not, I mean,

1201
01:47:45,360 --> 01:47:51,540
I mean, talk about SMRU, but nothing, nothing is inexpensive, well, in the probably,

1202
01:47:51,820 --> 01:47:55,920
in the mechanicals, which we're going to have to fix in this building at some point, is a further

1203
01:47:55,920 --> 01:47:58,360
down the pipe you kick at the higher, the expenses.

1204
01:47:59,880 --> 01:48:07,540
So the other thing, if I could imagine, the other piece of this mayor is that, well, would the potential

1205
01:48:07,540 --> 01:48:13,760
tax reform, and the unknown with respect to federal assistance dollars moving forward on beach

1206
01:48:13,760 --> 01:48:19,700
nourishment, it's prudent to put money into reserve, given those unknowns.

1207
01:48:20,340 --> 01:48:24,620
Well, and I think that is a very reasonable answer.

1208
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:31,140
So, we budgeted over $400,000 in reserves for the coming year and the contingency, so that's

1209
01:48:31,140 --> 01:48:32,020
a part of that.

1210
01:48:32,020 --> 01:48:33,040
That was a good decision.

1211
01:48:33,740 --> 01:48:37,340
I don't see any outrageous spending increases.

1212
01:48:37,660 --> 01:48:42,820
The only, the biggest increase was in the public safety department and that is because

1213
01:48:42,820 --> 01:48:50,360
of the contract, otherwise, everything else is less than 5 percent, which is a call of one.

1214
01:48:50,700 --> 01:48:52,920
So we're doing a good job with this.

1215
01:48:53,200 --> 01:49:02,600
Yeah, you can see right here on the screen itself, I mean, payroll itself, 5.04 percent, again,

1216
01:49:02,600 --> 01:49:04,880
on the public side, on the benefit side,

1217
01:49:04,900 --> 01:49:06,680
that biggest one there at public safety,

1218
01:49:07,460 --> 01:49:09,400
that was coming from last year,

1219
01:49:09,720 --> 01:49:12,320
that was a need, I mean, we needed

1220
01:49:12,320 --> 01:49:14,460
to do something for public safety, and we did.

1221
01:49:14,840 --> 01:49:15,720
So that's there.

1222
01:49:16,140 --> 01:49:20,800
Operating at 4.68% or 580, and then capital,

1223
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:24,060
capital, or once every couple of your items,

1224
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:28,380
so next year, maybe we're down 48% from this year.

1225
01:49:28,760 --> 01:49:30,300
But we've got some high ticket items on it.

1226
01:49:30,300 --> 01:49:36,440
We've got $125,000 generator, you know, John's got some road projects in there, public safety

1227
01:49:36,440 --> 01:49:41,020
has new radios that are coming on because the county's changing over radios, we're actually

1228
01:49:41,020 --> 01:49:44,700
going to be on two CAD systems because county's changing CAD, so we have to be on the new one

1229
01:49:44,700 --> 01:49:45,660
and the old one.

1230
01:49:46,180 --> 01:49:50,640
So again, but those are kind of once every fiber, you know, six or eight year items, generally

1231
01:49:50,640 --> 01:49:51,160
speaking.

1232
01:49:53,020 --> 01:49:59,820
So, there's a contingency line right there, the $460,000 contingency up 10%, so again,

1233
01:49:59,820 --> 01:50:07,960
helping to balance the budget. So, up to 1.2 million, 460,000 of it is in contingency of the change.

1234
01:50:10,180 --> 01:50:12,220
Any questions or comments?

1235
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:16,360
I'm ski.

1236
01:50:17,640 --> 01:50:23,340
Yeah, there's really no recommended motion or anything. At this point, we've approved all the

1237
01:50:23,340 --> 01:50:28,020
insurances that we needed to. Everything else is in line and then we'll have the

1238
01:50:28,020 --> 01:50:29,240
public area tonight at 501.

1239
01:50:33,240 --> 01:50:34,680
What's that?

1240
01:50:36,620 --> 01:50:37,380
All right.

1241
01:50:37,600 --> 01:50:42,140
On to item 7, ordinance number 422.

1242
01:50:43,060 --> 01:50:49,700
A second reading of the ordinance pertaining to requiring house to house solic...

1243
01:50:51,050 --> 01:50:52,570
License from the town.

1244
01:50:53,170 --> 01:50:53,730
Correct.

1245
01:50:54,310 --> 01:50:55,350
That's correct, Mister.

1246
01:50:56,410 --> 01:50:57,290
I'll read it.

1247
01:50:57,430 --> 01:50:57,770
Another record.

1248
01:50:57,910 --> 01:50:59,590
Ordnance number 422.

1249
01:51:00,350 --> 01:51:02,490
And ordinance of the town of Jupiter Island, Florida.

1250
01:51:02,490 --> 01:51:09,130
a mending chapter six article four solicitors of the code of ordinances of the Town of

1251
01:51:09,130 --> 01:51:13,490
Jubilee, Ireland, to require that applicants for a Town solicitor permit, first obtained

1252
01:51:13,490 --> 01:51:18,490
a valid home solicitation sale permit from the clerk of the Circuit Court for Martin County,

1253
01:51:19,050 --> 01:51:26,150
as required by Section 501.022 Florida Statutes, where applicable providing for conformant amendments

1254
01:51:26,150 --> 01:51:35,910
to sections 6-62, 6-63, and 6-67, providing for quantification, providing for conflicts,

1255
01:51:36,570 --> 01:51:40,350
providing for severability and providing for an effective date.

1256
01:51:41,370 --> 01:51:43,130
So, this is the second reading.

1257
01:51:43,970 --> 01:51:50,810
What this LDR does is requires home solicitation sellers to obtain the permit from the county

1258
01:51:50,810 --> 01:51:51,190
clerk.

1259
01:51:51,190 --> 01:51:56,330
With finger printing in the background check, our ordinance never asked for proof of that permit.

1260
01:51:56,770 --> 01:51:57,190
Now, it does.

1261
01:51:57,390 --> 01:52:04,010
I worked with Chief Ewing on drafting this, and it makes four different changes to section 6.

1262
01:52:04,430 --> 01:52:06,070
Our six dash is 62.

1263
01:52:06,670 --> 01:52:09,430
It conditions the town permit on a valid county permit.

1264
01:52:10,050 --> 01:52:15,190
Six dash 63 requires the paperwork, and the new six dash 63.1.

1265
01:52:15,190 --> 01:52:22,190
one can find the towns rolled to verifying the county permit and 67 as county permit

1266
01:52:22,190 --> 01:52:26,290
expiration or revocation as grounds for revoking the permit.

1267
01:52:26,770 --> 01:52:29,510
So we are looking for a motion to approve.

1268
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:54,380
We're doing all this to get the solicitors there permit. What are the residents know about. All of a sudden, somebody is going to come to their door. Are they informed that this is possible? What do we do here to communicate that?

1269
01:52:58,160 --> 01:53:06,680
So I've already sent out a notice, and I intend to send out another one as a season approaches for the residents who are out of town.

1270
01:53:07,140 --> 01:53:13,580
We've implemented the registration process for the residents to request to be excluded from solicitors.

1271
01:53:14,040 --> 01:53:16,480
That process has already been running.

1272
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:22,640
Probably had the highest response from residents than anything I've ever put out.

1273
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:27,600
We've got close to 40 or 50 residents that have already signed up to not have one.

1274
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:28,300
How did you do it?

1275
01:53:28,500 --> 01:53:28,820
I don't remember.

1276
01:53:29,000 --> 01:53:34,760
On our website, that was sent out as well, and I'm going to have, I'm going to ask the

1277
01:53:34,760 --> 01:53:37,480
residents' association to also include that in their newsletter.

1278
01:53:38,540 --> 01:53:43,640
But I'll send out a reminder, and I can circle back to you afterwards to give you

1279
01:53:43,640 --> 01:53:44,080
direction.

1280
01:53:44,240 --> 01:53:45,340
But it's on our website.

1281
01:53:45,540 --> 01:53:48,680
It's a simple registration process on the website.

1282
01:53:48,980 --> 01:53:50,260
It's on our website.

1283
01:53:50,260 --> 01:53:51,120
The town website.

1284
01:53:51,380 --> 01:53:51,480
Yes, ma'am.

1285
01:53:51,660 --> 01:53:53,800
There's nothing individually sent to every resident.

1286
01:53:53,800 --> 01:54:00,180
I have sent out a public notice to all the residents through email, but I will do that again.

1287
01:54:00,380 --> 01:54:03,880
Not individually, just a public notice by

1288
01:54:03,880 --> 01:54:07,260
Anybody who's registered to receive email, so it residents.

1289
01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:12,920
All right, do we have a motion?

1290
01:54:13,820 --> 01:54:14,820
Oh, to.

1291
01:54:15,540 --> 01:54:16,260
Red it.

1292
01:54:16,820 --> 01:54:18,380
So we're ready to approve it?

1293
01:54:18,580 --> 01:54:18,740
Yes.

1294
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:20,140
All in favor?

1295
01:54:20,920 --> 01:54:21,220
Aye.

1296
01:54:21,780 --> 01:54:22,280
Opposed?

1297
01:54:27,120 --> 01:54:34,560
The ordinance passes, number eight, ordinance 423,

1298
01:54:39,760 --> 01:54:41,780
moves, this is the residential,

1299
01:54:42,240 --> 01:54:45,220
I mean, the recreation district.

1300
01:54:46,120 --> 01:54:46,300
All right.

1301
01:54:46,480 --> 01:54:48,980
The ordinance of the town commission of the town of Jupiter Island,

1302
01:54:49,080 --> 01:54:50,200
Martin County, Florida.

1303
01:54:50,440 --> 01:54:53,040
Modifying appendix A of the town's code of ordinances,

1304
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:55,140
comprising the town's land development regulations,

1305
01:54:55,140 --> 01:55:00,740
providing for the text amendment of Article 1 Division 3, Section 3.03 of the Land Development

1306
01:55:00,740 --> 01:55:05,080
Regulations regarding the powers and duties of the town commission to provide for

1307
01:55:05,080 --> 01:55:10,380
town commission review of development and the Recreation Club District, our CD, providing

1308
01:55:10,380 --> 01:55:14,260
for the repeal of ordinances and conflict, providing for several ability, providing for

1309
01:55:14,260 --> 01:55:16,840
codification, providing for and effective date.

1310
01:55:17,060 --> 01:55:24,900
As you noted, Madam Mayor, this was before you in July, it passed on the first reading, this

1311
01:55:24,900 --> 01:55:33,100
this simply brings RCD applications within the Commission's jurisdiction as the

1312
01:55:33,100 --> 01:55:33,760
concerted.

1313
01:55:33,920 --> 01:55:35,800
This clarifies an ambiguity that existed.

1314
01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:36,420
Correct.

1315
01:55:36,500 --> 01:55:41,720
The Commission already has jurisdiction over the public land district related applications

1316
01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:49,300
and any conservation related applications for CPD properties.

1317
01:55:49,800 --> 01:55:53,040
This simply clarifies that RCD is now within your jurisdiction.

1318
01:55:54,100 --> 01:55:56,500
We need a reading of the ordinance.

1319
01:55:59,120 --> 01:56:01,300
I've already read it, so you're good to go.

1320
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:02,900
I'll do it again.

1321
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:04,120
I'll do it again.

1322
01:56:04,120 --> 01:56:04,560
I'll do it again if you mind.

1323
01:56:04,840 --> 01:56:05,820
Sorry about that.

1324
01:56:06,060 --> 01:56:06,420
All right.

1325
01:56:06,620 --> 01:56:10,060
I do we have a motion to approve ordinance number 43.

1326
01:56:11,120 --> 01:56:11,620
It's almost.

1327
01:56:12,260 --> 01:56:12,500
Okay.

1328
01:56:13,340 --> 01:56:13,940
All in favor?

1329
01:56:14,580 --> 01:56:15,620
I post.

1330
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:23,160
So we find ourselves on item nine.

1331
01:56:23,160 --> 01:56:24,000
9.

1332
01:56:26,730 --> 01:56:28,410
I'll manage your evaluation.

1333
01:56:33,950 --> 01:56:44,750
You have updates or with the hard material passed out on the dice, and so

1334
01:56:48,360 --> 01:56:53,240
this is informational, correct?

1335
01:56:54,580 --> 01:56:55,380
Yes.

1336
01:56:57,460 --> 01:57:00,320
We have the foot

1337
01:57:04,160 --> 01:57:05,380
from, uh,

1338
01:57:07,590 --> 01:57:09,790
we have all commissioners. Yes.

1339
01:57:11,090 --> 01:57:11,270
So, do.

1340
01:57:13,030 --> 01:57:15,630
I see a value as you never ever seen here.

1341
01:57:16,290 --> 01:57:18,990
And it's, and it's...

1342
01:57:18,990 --> 01:57:19,850
Formants, parents.

1343
01:57:21,590 --> 01:57:22,050
And what?

1344
01:57:34,020 --> 01:57:35,600
Please use your microphone.

1345
01:57:36,380 --> 01:57:39,640
Everybody has, has just me.

1346
01:57:40,620 --> 01:57:46,760
The scores here as excellent, there's only one above average, everything else as excellent.

1347
01:57:47,020 --> 01:57:48,540
I mean, what else can you do?

1348
01:57:49,060 --> 01:57:51,940
You are a tremendous town manager.

1349
01:57:52,360 --> 01:57:53,660
I'm more lucky to have you.

1350
01:57:53,700 --> 01:57:54,240
Great.

1351
01:57:55,540 --> 01:58:02,960
I pointed out in my evaluation, which was tardy, and I apologize for that,

1352
01:58:05,390 --> 01:58:06,930
but there's something

1353
01:58:06,930 --> 01:58:17,710
But being asked to evaluate someone who's as good as our town manager just seems to make work.

1354
01:58:18,730 --> 01:58:24,450
But what I pointed out is what I've long known and learned the hard way.

1355
01:58:24,590 --> 01:58:27,630
And that is that the most important thing

1356
01:58:30,030 --> 01:58:34,750
you look for in a town manager is someone you can trust.

1357
01:58:34,750 --> 01:58:40,170
because we can't talk to each other, and he can talk to each and every one of us.

1358
01:58:40,730 --> 01:58:44,450
And the opportunity for mischief is

1359
01:58:46,920 --> 01:58:51,180
frightening, and we are so lucky that we have someone

1360
01:58:51,180 --> 01:58:53,020
that we can trust completely.

1361
01:58:53,740 --> 01:58:59,740
I'd like to just add to this evaluation, isn't just about our town manager.

1362
01:59:00,280 --> 01:59:02,540
And we put this evaluation system together.

1363
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:05,060
It goes all the way down through all of the departments.

1364
01:59:05,060 --> 01:59:21,980
And it comes back up in their excellent, too, and then it's simply why I'd like to, I'd like to recommend that we give him the annual bonus of 15% of his salary.

1365
01:59:23,640 --> 01:59:26,140
And that's my recommendation.

1366
01:59:26,140 --> 01:59:27,260
Mr.

1367
01:59:30,650 --> 01:59:33,390
Pazansky, is that comp?

1368
01:59:36,780 --> 01:59:37,640
I mean...

1369
01:59:38,180 --> 01:59:40,260
He stepped out.

1370
01:59:40,720 --> 01:59:43,840
Oh, yeah, we did 10% last year.

1371
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:45,750
And the performance has gone,

1372
01:59:46,920 --> 01:59:51,640
and eventually I think a 15% bonus is adequate.

1373
01:59:53,500 --> 01:59:55,280
I'd like to do 20, but...

1374
01:59:55,280 --> 01:59:56,660
You guys have jumped all over me.

1375
01:59:56,740 --> 01:59:57,380
Is that a motion?

1376
01:59:57,720 --> 01:59:58,420
That's a motion.

1377
01:59:58,420 --> 01:59:59,980
second up.

1378
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:06,260
Further discussion? All in favour? Aye. Opposed?

1379
02:00:08,260 --> 02:00:18,020
I'd just like to point out, being as it is, budget time and all the rest, that there are

1380
02:00:18,020 --> 02:00:25,920
some decisions we make, which I'm particularly happy about, and this is one, because Bob

1381
02:00:25,920 --> 02:00:33,940
value at it is so whatever this bonus is is largely in consequential compared to the benefit

1382
02:00:33,940 --> 02:00:40,800
we get from having you even you look at I mean if we could spend a little time putting a cash

1383
02:00:40,800 --> 02:00:49,580
number to that interlocal agreement and it's a big number so if anything where we've been

1384
02:00:49,580 --> 02:00:55,920
misperhaps and acknowledging your contributions in a meaningful way like this.

1385
02:00:56,400 --> 02:00:59,140
So I think that would be more than 20%.

1386
02:01:00,840 --> 02:01:02,680
That wouldn't be bothering me at all.

1387
02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:08,580
Do we have a consensus, do we have a consensus to do it at 20%, just on that?

1388
02:01:08,780 --> 02:01:09,460
Is that a vote?

1389
02:01:09,640 --> 02:01:17,240
Yeah, can we amend, can I, can I make a motion to amend to 20% bonus?

1390
02:01:18,200 --> 02:01:18,440
Yes.

1391
02:01:20,560 --> 02:01:21,440
Thank you.

1392
02:01:21,520 --> 02:01:22,720
Further discussion?

1393
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:24,320
All in favor?

1394
02:01:24,880 --> 02:01:25,000
Hi.

1395
02:01:25,520 --> 02:01:31,120
And if anybody, if there were ever to be pushed back, it could be very easy for us to demonstrate the value added.

1396
02:01:32,280 --> 02:01:33,200
I'll go through a hundred.

1397
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:41,200
Well, I'm just saying it's very easy to, I mean, this is one of these things that is, it's not something I'm perfectly happy to stand behind this all day long.

1398
02:01:41,200 --> 02:01:46,920
Well, thank all of you, and I just would point out that the obvious, which is it's a team effort,

1399
02:01:47,100 --> 02:01:52,980
and I've got an incredible group of department directors that make me look good every day.

1400
02:01:53,720 --> 02:01:56,140
So, it is the team, but thank you all.

1401
02:01:56,280 --> 02:02:02,920
What plus, if you hiring Matt to get SMR, you turned around, would be worth a lot of time.

1402
02:02:03,080 --> 02:02:07,640
I mean, they suddenly believe it, well, you've done with the people, we're lucky.

1403
02:02:07,640 --> 02:02:09,160
The turnaround specialist.

1404
02:02:11,860 --> 02:02:13,400
All right.

1405
02:02:14,340 --> 02:02:17,900
Let us move along then to

1406
02:02:19,150 --> 02:02:21,170
Development Review Board

1407
02:02:21,170 --> 02:02:23,010
Biggen C.

1408
02:02:26,250 --> 02:02:28,950
The Vice Chair position has not been filled

1409
02:02:28,950 --> 02:02:30,370
needed for

1410
02:02:31,810 --> 02:02:32,620
standing in

1411
02:02:33,750 --> 02:02:36,510
Should the chairman be unavailable

1412
02:02:36,510 --> 02:02:38,370
and

1413
02:02:40,170 --> 02:02:52,350
The development review board is asking or recommending Jennifer Madden for the Vice Chair position and for a motion to that effect.

1414
02:02:53,550 --> 02:03:02,550
I do. I worked with her. I'll make the motion. She's very good at what she does and would be very a great asset to Judy and her.

1415
02:03:02,570 --> 02:03:06,790
The rest of the committee have something written about it before we have to review this.

1416
02:03:08,590 --> 02:03:13,070
Maria, you recommend her. I did. So the motion is made. Do we have a second?

1417
02:03:13,190 --> 02:03:19,210
Thank you. For their discussion. All in favor? Aye.

1418
02:03:20,110 --> 02:03:27,990
Opposed? And could we see that Commissioner Warner gets a copy of the resume that we have on five?

1419
02:03:28,490 --> 02:03:28,490
Yes.

1420
02:03:33,490 --> 02:03:34,470
Number 11.

1421
02:03:35,930 --> 02:03:36,130
Good.

1422
02:03:38,070 --> 02:03:40,470
Comprehensive plan review.

1423
02:03:40,790 --> 02:03:43,230
We've allowed it 40 minutes for this.

1424
02:03:43,430 --> 02:03:48,750
I'm just about to take us to our shaved meeting, but I don't.

1425
02:03:51,380 --> 02:03:53,880
I don't know that we need 45 minutes.

1426
02:03:54,080 --> 02:03:55,300
But let's get underway.

1427
02:03:57,140 --> 02:03:57,320
Yes.

1428
02:03:57,620 --> 02:03:59,420
Good morning again, Mayor commissioners.

1429
02:03:59,780 --> 02:04:01,020
You have two memos.

1430
02:04:01,340 --> 02:04:06,300
One of those prepared by staff, the other by Council Teal, regarding the comprehensive plan.

1431
02:04:06,300 --> 02:04:17,380
And the most recent action in July was the Commission Direction to have the staff update the last four elements of the plan based on the Commission comments, which has been done.

1432
02:04:17,820 --> 02:04:23,520
You've been provided with an updated copy of the comp plan goals of objectives and policies.

1433
02:04:24,440 --> 02:04:27,600
What has happened further is that staff went through this one more time.

1434
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:39,440
We did have a few highlights and recommendations in there for change, additionally Council Teal providing a separate memo has outlined some things he has proposed recommended to be put into the plan.

1435
02:04:40,660 --> 02:04:49,000
The one that I would suggest that we do discuss is within the town profile, this is to do with population projection.

1436
02:04:49,720 --> 02:04:56,280
Currently, the commission had directed the use of the Florida DOT TAS projection for population.

1437
02:04:57,040 --> 02:05:02,700
This was a number that was higher than what was in the Shimberg and what Kimley Horn had originally proposed.

1438
02:05:03,180 --> 02:05:05,620
Kimley Horn came back with the Florida TAS projection.

1439
02:05:06,360 --> 02:05:14,640
That is a number that is reliant upon a GIS application, so it looks at data sets and then calls down into it.

1440
02:05:14,640 --> 02:05:18,980
So long story short, this wouldn't call a customized data set.

1441
02:05:19,180 --> 02:05:24,920
It is one that the state could question the town staff recommendation is to adopt instead

1442
02:05:25,440 --> 02:05:27,460
what the University of Florida is putting out.

1443
02:05:27,460 --> 02:05:28,820
It is a lower number.

1444
02:05:29,120 --> 02:05:32,280
However, that being said, we're looking at a seasonal population.

1445
02:05:32,740 --> 02:05:37,920
So when we discuss level of service, we're trying to accommodate up to the 3000 number.

1446
02:05:38,340 --> 02:05:43,380
So that's something, obviously, like a further direction from the commission on before

1447
02:05:43,380 --> 02:05:51,580
advance that. How many doors are there on the island? How many front doors? Oh, if we're just talking primary residents,

1448
02:05:51,920 --> 02:06:01,460
552 homes, 550, yeah, not primer all residents homes. I don't know that that includes say guest houses,

1449
02:06:01,460 --> 02:06:06,900
success restrictions, so just primary homes, not that they're not okay.

1450
02:06:07,140 --> 02:06:07,200
Correct.

1451
02:06:07,200 --> 02:06:07,900
552.

1452
02:06:18,470 --> 02:06:24,670
So you would like us to adopt the beaver projection.

1453
02:06:25,630 --> 02:06:30,110
Yes, to have the comp plan and also the data analysis, all the backup information that

1454
02:06:30,110 --> 02:06:31,730
looks at population projection.

1455
02:06:32,450 --> 02:06:38,430
And in this case, the number would be 868 projected through 2045.

1456
02:06:39,210 --> 02:06:48,530
Footnote here is that the state may wish for this number to be further updated through 2047 as you're planning horizons are supposed to be 10 and 20 years

1457
02:06:48,530 --> 02:06:54,130
So we would obviously need to get gather from University Florida and update on that number

1458
02:06:54,130 --> 02:07:02,350
But that being proposed and put in here is a readily available accessible accepted source from the state. How far are you going out?

1459
02:07:03,050 --> 02:07:05,990
You need to you're planning horizons to be at 10 years and 20 years

1460
02:07:05,990 --> 02:07:09,330
We're going to redo this comprehensive plan in seven years.

1461
02:07:10,010 --> 02:07:11,010
Yes, every seven years.

1462
02:07:11,230 --> 02:07:11,850
These should be ready.

1463
02:07:12,050 --> 02:07:14,190
Okay, so that's when you're going to make the change.

1464
02:07:14,630 --> 02:07:21,750
We're at that stage now where the year is what triggers us needing to look at 10 years from the data of adoption and 20 years.

1465
02:07:22,170 --> 02:07:26,030
So again, when this process was started back in 2024 and 2025,

1466
02:07:27,030 --> 02:07:28,930
that what we have available are the 2020.

1467
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:43,340
Five projections, I go to 2045. I don't mean to complicate it, but it's a footnote here. I think accepting that methodology and using beavers numbers in the plan submitted to the state is the way to go.

1468
02:07:43,560 --> 02:07:45,660
And then if we get the comment, we can update the number.

1469
02:07:49,880 --> 02:07:53,720
Do we need a motion to recommend the adoption of-

1470
02:07:53,720 --> 02:07:56,460
No, I don't believe we need a specific in this Kyle.

1471
02:07:57,040 --> 02:08:05,240
If you disagree there, it's a recommendation if you'd want to accept the motion in the back end is to accept all the changes as proposed by staff and council,

1472
02:08:05,840 --> 02:08:08,040
and then direct us to bring forward the document later.

1473
02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:10,640
So if we want to get through any other-

1474
02:08:10,640 --> 02:08:13,380
As far as staff comments are very straightforward,

1475
02:08:14,580 --> 02:08:19,520
there are some other things in here that we're highlighted that are more just corrections as far as references

1476
02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:27,600
to Statute, most of these were caught by Council Teal here and really unless there's any other specific

1477
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:32,240
questions on what's in the staff memo, I would hand this over to Florida Kyle to kind of

1478
02:08:32,240 --> 02:08:36,640
hit the highlights on what he did find within his review and what his recommendations are.

1479
02:08:36,880 --> 02:08:42,800
Hi, I went through this thing. I mean, I just have one question on 1816 talking about the quality,

1480
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:49,500
the quantity of water provided to the level of service.

1481
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:52,960
600 gallons capital per day.

1482
02:08:53,100 --> 02:08:54,480
The same question.

1483
02:08:54,620 --> 02:08:58,360
The only thing for the people, how many people, right?

1484
02:08:58,760 --> 02:09:02,920
The point is that you get this information from Matt.

1485
02:09:03,080 --> 02:09:06,740
Yes, Matt and Matt Hammond did review this information.

1486
02:09:06,740 --> 02:09:12,280
And 600 gallons is definitely a number that fits what the island need would be.

1487
02:09:12,840 --> 02:09:16,720
It is actually when we change it from 680 that was in there.

1488
02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:22,440
The current comp plan actually has two different sets of numbers that has an inconsistency

1489
02:09:22,440 --> 02:09:24,920
within it later on in the infrastructure element.

1490
02:09:24,940 --> 02:09:25,720
It has 600.

1491
02:09:26,140 --> 02:09:29,780
We're recommending to stay with 600, which is a number that men have and recommends

1492
02:09:29,780 --> 02:09:32,520
is applicable or suitable for the utility for us.

1493
02:09:32,520 --> 02:09:35,860
That was my concern, that he is involved with.

1494
02:09:38,920 --> 02:09:38,980
Right.

1495
02:09:40,140 --> 02:09:47,060
Well, as Mr. Duchic noted, most of my changes were just bringing some of the language into

1496
02:09:47,060 --> 02:09:51,020
conformity with new or existing state statutes.

1497
02:09:51,080 --> 02:09:55,560
There were some antiquated references to departments no longer in existence.

1498
02:09:55,560 --> 02:10:01,180
I think remnants from the Kimlihorn language, and I think overall it's in great shape.

1499
02:10:01,180 --> 02:10:05,140
and I commend Mr. Duchick for his work on this.

1500
02:10:06,840 --> 02:10:09,040
Okay, can you go to page 35?

1501
02:10:10,860 --> 02:10:12,020
The second one down.

1502
02:10:13,940 --> 02:10:19,280
801-09-418.9.1.

1503
02:10:20,320 --> 02:10:21,660
Is that still relevant?

1504
02:10:23,440 --> 02:10:26,520
No, we have an agreement with Martin County.

1505
02:10:27,040 --> 02:10:28,540
What is the just of it?

1506
02:10:28,540 --> 02:10:29,320
Right away.

1507
02:10:38,630 --> 02:10:39,790
You know what I'm saying, Bob?

1508
02:10:41,090 --> 02:10:47,330
Well, that discussion with the county level was with respect to easements and rights

1509
02:10:47,330 --> 02:10:50,650
of ways that precipitated North Beach Road.

1510
02:10:51,470 --> 02:11:00,430
And there was a verbal agreement that they would endeavor to release any authority over any rights

1511
02:11:00,430 --> 02:11:05,850
of ways on the island. It's not yet been formalized, but I expect it will be.

1512
02:11:05,850 --> 02:11:08,570
How do we address it in this?

1513
02:11:13,620 --> 02:11:19,060
Specific two things that are not formal roads today, which is what we're talking about.

1514
02:11:19,080 --> 02:11:24,940
Right. I think we need to consider that. I'm not sure that it makes it into here.

1515
02:11:25,420 --> 02:11:31,520
What can we horn? And this is the majority of the changes within here. We're just a re-wording

1516
02:11:32,140 --> 02:11:37,440
to retain that there's a joint planning agreement that would address rights of way, et cetera.

1517
02:11:37,440 --> 02:11:40,440
for what they're doing for themselves and doing something.

1518
02:11:40,960 --> 02:11:44,720
I just want to make sure we're not doing something that we already done.

1519
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:52,100
I can clarify my reading of this policy only concerns the rights of way that are held

1520
02:11:52,100 --> 02:11:54,080
by the county and there's no issue.

1521
02:11:55,380 --> 02:12:00,560
There's no dispute as to who hold it in this case would be the county for those specific

1522
02:12:00,560 --> 02:12:01,620
rights of way.

1523
02:12:01,620 --> 02:12:07,000
Right. And the agreement that Mr. Garlow referenced concerns the

1524
02:12:07,000 --> 02:12:12,440
Ancillary rights of the way that extended from North Beach Road, that are not currently

1525
02:12:12,440 --> 02:12:13,920
maintained and being used.

1526
02:12:14,500 --> 02:12:17,580
Well, I mean, the indication that I got from Martin County was that day are

1527
02:12:17,580 --> 02:12:23,500
willing, and again, this is a management that they're willing to relinquish all

1528
02:12:23,500 --> 02:12:28,880
authority over every right of way within a jurisdictional limits of the town.

1529
02:12:28,880 --> 02:12:29,140
Yeah.

1530
02:12:29,900 --> 02:12:30,160
Okay.

1531
02:12:32,460 --> 02:12:34,760
That's good information.

1532
02:12:35,660 --> 02:12:35,800
Yeah.

1533
02:12:35,820 --> 02:12:36,700
Great information.

1534
02:12:37,240 --> 02:12:38,180
It shouldn't be in here.

1535
02:12:38,980 --> 02:12:41,520
Well, I don't think it needs to be in the comprehensive plan.

1536
02:12:41,800 --> 02:12:43,440
No, that's my point.

1537
02:12:44,580 --> 02:12:48,000
It's tying us in to having more meetings with them for the county.

1538
02:12:48,700 --> 02:12:49,060
Yes.

1539
02:12:49,720 --> 02:12:50,760
It's a work in progress.

1540
02:12:50,960 --> 02:12:54,240
I mean, I expect it'll be formalized, but it has not yet been.

1541
02:12:58,320 --> 02:12:58,820
All right.

1542
02:12:58,820 --> 02:13:03,180
Any further questions, comments,

1543
02:13:05,730 --> 02:13:20,090
so the staff is seeking our approval to update the comprehensive plan and schedule an LPA Transmiddler hearing in November.

1544
02:13:22,230 --> 02:13:35,280
And preparation asks staff to develop an ordinance to transmit the comprehensive plan package to the state and reviewing agencies.

1545
02:13:36,680 --> 02:13:39,000
So, that's our next step in the process.

1546
02:13:39,120 --> 02:13:42,500
Do we have approval to do so?

1547
02:13:42,800 --> 02:13:44,940
We don't need a motion, correct, Mr. Teo?

1548
02:13:45,980 --> 02:13:48,480
I think a motion would be advisable.

1549
02:13:48,480 --> 02:13:58,240
Do we have a motion to approve the updates to the comprehensive plan based on recommendations

1550
02:13:59,620 --> 02:14:08,580
and to request scheduling of the LPA transmittal hearing in November and approve the

1551
02:14:08,580 --> 02:14:14,260
supporting documents and prepare an ordinance to transmit?

1552
02:14:14,260 --> 02:14:22,240
we have such a motion. Yes. All right, Mr. Tateo has made the motion. Do we have a second?

1553
02:14:22,420 --> 02:14:28,760
Second. All in favor? Any well first? Any further discussion? All in favor?

1554
02:14:29,300 --> 02:14:30,520
Aye. Post?

1555
02:14:33,830 --> 02:14:36,850
This is exactly what we need to thank you, Mayor.

1556
02:14:38,550 --> 02:14:40,010
It's been a journey,

1557
02:14:42,830 --> 02:14:44,510
so now

1558
02:14:47,480 --> 02:14:55,040
we have anxious to approve approved development orders.

1559
02:14:55,140 --> 02:14:59,980
This is the after-the-fact issue we've been struggling with.

1560
02:15:05,160 --> 02:15:11,980
Thank you, Mayor. This is the unpermitted work ordinance and the form that you directed in the July meeting.

1561
02:15:12,680 --> 02:15:19,060
It's not yet at first reading that you need direction on some points, and I want to propose a change.

1562
02:15:19,060 --> 02:15:25,680
But going back to the July meeting, the message was loud and clear, zero tolerance to make

1563
02:15:25,680 --> 02:15:32,600
this as tight as possible to prevent folks from doing unpermitted work, which would have

1564
02:15:32,600 --> 02:15:39,060
to be undone, torn up, torn down, whatever, and whatever the fix would be.

1565
02:15:39,300 --> 02:15:45,360
So this draft reflects that, and it's, I think, the aggressive, and there's maybe one

1566
02:15:45,360 --> 02:15:49,520
section, or I think there is one section that is perhaps overly aggressive.

1567
02:15:51,700 --> 02:15:59,860
So it did also capture a due process, component, and the form of an appeal, the appeal

1568
02:15:59,860 --> 02:16:04,620
would be within the jurisdiction of this board, the Commission, sitting quasi-juditially.

1569
02:16:05,200 --> 02:16:11,080
You may affirm reverse on a finding that the work is not permitted or modify the corrective

1570
02:16:11,080 --> 02:16:18,700
action or schedule for the subject construction, looking back over this, I did want to propose

1571
02:16:18,700 --> 02:16:28,640
a change to subsection B, a section 1.04. You'll see how it reads currently. I recommend

1572
02:16:28,640 --> 02:16:34,520
a tweak that wouldn't dull the teeth and this LDR, it would simply remove the focus on

1573
02:16:34,520 --> 02:16:39,580
the building official or staff and put the spotlight squarely on the applicant who did the

1574
02:16:39,580 --> 02:16:45,640
committed work, and what I'm proposing is, and it would also make it more concise, which is

1575
02:16:45,640 --> 02:16:49,560
what I'm endeavoring to do with RLDRs whenever I can.

1576
02:16:50,460 --> 02:16:56,880
It would read, quote, no after the fact approval, a new application for future development,

1577
02:16:57,220 --> 02:17:04,280
maybe filed, if it does not rely on unprimited work, and or the unprimited work has first been

1578
02:17:04,280 --> 02:17:10,100
removed. This section does not apply to plan revisions that may be administratively approved

1579
02:17:10,100 --> 02:17:19,980
before commencement of the applicant's work. So it removes the first sentence which, as I

1580
02:17:19,980 --> 02:17:26,700
stated before, would put the oneness in the spotlight on the building official or town staff,

1581
02:17:26,700 --> 02:17:33,140
instead puts the focus on the action of the applicant who did the unpermitted work.

1582
02:17:34,990 --> 02:17:50,510
I had two comments or two issues that I would like us to consider, and that is on the certificate of occupancy.

1583
02:17:52,870 --> 02:18:03,490
There's a strange, the way this is written, I read it to say that if your landscaping doesn't comply,

1584
02:18:03,490 --> 02:18:15,590
But your house does. You can move in. And I don't think that's what we want. So I think there needs to be clarification there.

1585
02:18:15,830 --> 02:18:25,890
It doesn't that fall near that whole issue of substantial compliance and all that. I mean, I just want to make sure that Kyle is good with that before we go down that road.

1586
02:18:25,890 --> 02:18:36,830
So I know that in discussions with Miss Hardy, you know, on the Florida building code, there are concerns about, you know, with holding a CO based on something related to landscaping.

1587
02:18:37,350 --> 02:18:42,870
If it's involved, if it involves the improvements that are part of the permit, that's fair game.

1588
02:18:43,790 --> 02:18:52,610
I will take a closer look at that and confer with our building director and see if there's some way to do that.

1589
02:18:52,610 --> 02:18:56,210
or if the Florida Building Code is absolute and it's restriction.

1590
02:18:57,870 --> 02:19:01,210
And I'm also wondering if we should consider

1591
02:19:01,210 --> 02:19:04,670
notice to the affected neighbors

1592
02:19:05,610 --> 02:19:13,750
of the impending issuance of a certificate of occupancy.

1593
02:19:15,010 --> 02:19:19,270
And a notice to the neighbors that a private provider

1594
02:19:19,270 --> 02:19:23,010
will be in charge, I think that would be helpful

1595
02:19:23,010 --> 02:19:26,410
to the building department, too, for the neighbors to know.

1596
02:19:29,230 --> 02:19:32,310
You're imposing, you know, new notice requirements.

1597
02:19:32,470 --> 02:19:36,230
I don't see my gut reaction as I don't see an issue with it.

1598
02:19:36,310 --> 02:19:41,290
I do need to check, there are new laws in the books concerning private providers.

1599
02:19:41,490 --> 02:19:45,030
Want to make sure that we're acting in harmony with those.

1600
02:19:45,970 --> 02:19:46,770
Take a look at.

1601
02:19:46,830 --> 02:19:52,850
Do we, is there any, are there any implications of informing somebody about a

1602
02:19:52,850 --> 02:20:01,750
sending a certificate of occupancy that would in any way create a restriction, you know,

1603
02:20:01,990 --> 02:20:06,950
essentially, it's essentially like reopening the concept of an appeal, right, if you're,

1604
02:20:07,190 --> 02:20:11,630
because what are you going to do if you're going to inform the neighbors that you're getting your C of O?

1605
02:20:11,870 --> 02:20:17,230
That's essentially implicit that there is some form of appeal that could come from out that.

1606
02:20:17,230 --> 02:20:23,550
And I'm just curious, you know, especially if it's somebody building a spec house, they're

1607
02:20:23,550 --> 02:20:28,730
going to be trying to keep their profitability obviously as high as they can.

1608
02:20:29,590 --> 02:20:34,990
So I'm always leary of, I don't want us to be a precedent setting case somewhere.

1609
02:20:35,150 --> 02:20:40,510
I would like to get through our tenures here without Jupiter Island being involved in a precedent

1610
02:20:40,510 --> 02:20:41,310
setting case.

1611
02:20:41,310 --> 02:20:54,210
We had this conversation, like Katherine, about withholding the CO, you remember what you told me about that, Katherine, that it's, it's not something you can do lightly.

1612
02:20:56,090 --> 02:21:01,750
I think that goes to substantial compliance, substantial completion, and that's a slippery slope.

1613
02:21:02,670 --> 02:21:09,530
It's the state law dictates that CO cannot be held for site work, only for the building permit,

1614
02:21:09,790 --> 02:21:13,190
what applies at the building permit, the physical structure itself.

1615
02:21:13,650 --> 02:21:14,750
Can you define the site?

1616
02:21:14,750 --> 02:21:18,210
You can't really hold back a CO for site work.

1617
02:21:18,430 --> 02:21:23,470
You can cite it as a code violation, but not withhold a CO.

1618
02:21:23,470 --> 02:21:34,750
So the CO certificate of occupancy does not look at anything other than the structures compliance to the building permit.

1619
02:21:34,830 --> 02:21:35,550
Exactly.

1620
02:21:37,250 --> 02:21:41,950
Which pretty much knocks a teeth out of our whole impact review process.

1621
02:21:43,790 --> 02:21:53,330
Just for reference, when I was getting my CO for 17, it was withheld because of a buffer, a landscaping issue.

1622
02:21:53,470 --> 02:21:58,870
That may be a bit of an inappropriate way.

1623
02:21:58,930 --> 02:22:00,230
But now we know what it is.

1624
02:22:00,930 --> 02:22:01,790
Right now.

1625
02:22:02,610 --> 02:22:05,510
What you can do with the sea on what you can do.

1626
02:22:05,870 --> 02:22:06,670
I'm sorry.

1627
02:22:07,530 --> 02:22:09,010
But you just told us about the sea.

1628
02:22:09,610 --> 02:22:12,570
What was the state law saying just for the structure?

1629
02:22:15,180 --> 02:22:16,140
Can take this right?

1630
02:22:16,520 --> 02:22:18,000
With all the sea out.

1631
02:22:18,160 --> 02:22:20,680
You don't have to put in your driveway but you can move in.

1632
02:22:21,520 --> 02:22:21,800
Yes.

1633
02:22:22,540 --> 02:22:27,980
You can cite it for a code violation, but you can't stop the seal from being issued.

1634
02:22:28,040 --> 02:22:29,980
And a code violation can't imp-

1635
02:22:30,000 --> 02:22:33,420
Ediability of the owner to utilize the structure.

1636
02:22:34,260 --> 02:22:40,460
No. Even if all the landscaping, hard-scaping is incomplete.

1637
02:22:42,960 --> 02:22:44,920
Even if hard-scaping, landscaping

1638
02:22:44,920 --> 02:22:52,720
is incomplete. They're still eligible to get their CL. The CO on the structure, yes. But if

1639
02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:58,020
it doesn't meet the specifications of what the LDR specified in the development order,

1640
02:22:58,020 --> 02:23:08,360
Then we can't issue a code compliance and you move in with a yes, code compliance violation.

1641
02:23:11,400 --> 02:23:12,700
It's a separate way.

1642
02:23:13,020 --> 02:23:13,280
It presents.

1643
02:23:13,840 --> 02:23:13,920
Yeah.

1644
02:23:14,260 --> 02:23:16,480
We look in the tightening this up.

1645
02:23:17,000 --> 02:23:18,660
Well, but these are state regulations.

1646
02:23:18,980 --> 02:23:23,800
It just, I mean, on its face, it seems to pretty much pull the rug out from under

1647
02:23:23,800 --> 02:23:26,500
our whole impact review process really.

1648
02:23:26,500 --> 02:23:28,280
That's why I asked her to say it.

1649
02:23:28,280 --> 02:23:37,440
I think that's important to note what Ms. Harden said that this doesn't preclude you in any way from pursuing the enforcement measures, which I know.

1650
02:23:37,940 --> 02:23:39,120
But it has not done.

1651
02:23:39,260 --> 02:23:51,500
But enforcement measures today, or enforcement measures, can in any way prevent the accused as it were from having the utilization of the property?

1652
02:23:51,500 --> 02:23:58,520
I mean, I'd like to relook at the enforcement because I think it's always been so weak and our

1653
02:23:58,520 --> 02:24:05,720
penalties are laughably small and I'm wondering if rather than a building department to do it,

1654
02:24:05,740 --> 02:24:07,000
I'd rather ask you to do it.

1655
02:24:07,280 --> 02:24:11,440
Or find somebody who you feel comfortable because we need a fresh look at it.

1656
02:24:11,500 --> 02:24:13,000
We've discussed this with Katherine.

1657
02:24:13,640 --> 02:24:15,420
We know her feelings on it.

1658
02:24:15,540 --> 02:24:21,060
I'd like to take a fresh look at enforcement and penalties and see if we can

1659
02:24:23,120 --> 02:24:28,720
I think we understand the issue, Colin, you and I can deal with this.

1660
02:24:29,160 --> 02:24:34,280
I mean, the question and the point to mayor raises is, is you go to a final inspection

1661
02:24:34,280 --> 02:24:38,960
for a certificate of occupancy and there's no driveway and no landscaping, are they allowed

1662
02:24:38,960 --> 02:24:40,860
to unlock the front door and move in?

1663
02:24:41,200 --> 02:24:42,120
Certainly sounds like question.

1664
02:24:42,560 --> 02:24:47,940
I would even suggest that they can, once they have the CO, they can list it on the MLS.

1665
02:24:48,300 --> 02:24:49,260
Yes, what they want.

1666
02:24:49,260 --> 02:24:57,840
Yeah, we'll look at this before and they've got the buyer lined up, which is what happened over here and put the pressure on.

1667
02:24:58,240 --> 02:25:02,060
I'll take a very close look at those laws and make sure that we have it buttoned up.

1668
02:25:02,460 --> 02:25:10,140
I think that some of the severe deficiencies with the LDRs, the cover code enforcement currently,

1669
02:25:11,260 --> 02:25:13,800
They impose too many warnings.

1670
02:25:14,520 --> 02:25:18,280
You've got, I think, a few different warnings that have to go out before you can actually

1671
02:25:18,280 --> 02:25:18,960
cite someone.

1672
02:25:19,580 --> 02:25:24,280
The daily accrual finds is going to be capped by state statute, but we can ensure that those

1673
02:25:24,280 --> 02:25:26,400
are at the maximum allowable amount.

1674
02:25:27,540 --> 02:25:32,280
And of course, it has to observe all the due process requirements, but we can take a look at those

1675
02:25:32,280 --> 02:25:33,380
FLDRs as well.

1676
02:25:33,600 --> 02:25:39,760
As far as this one's concerned, do you think that we're close enough to, with these

1677
02:25:39,760 --> 02:25:56,040
changes that we've discussed with this contingency that, you know, we will nail down the details on the state law concerning the CO, released the CO, or we close enough to bring it on the first reading for next month's agenda, or should we discuss it again?

1678
02:25:56,040 --> 02:26:17,020
Well, for me, as long as you add more notice provisions, and I don't share the concern that, you know, I could call every day, call, and say, this is a public record to request or issuing a CEO yesterday or today or tomorrow, whatever, it's all public records, so.

1679
02:26:17,200 --> 02:26:23,420
The notice, and so I'm clear, the notice would go to immediate neighbors and the mail or how would it.

1680
02:26:24,060 --> 02:26:32,520
I'm curious though to what end, because to me, a notice there should be a point in that, what is that?

1681
02:26:32,720 --> 02:26:37,480
Other than to be purely informative, which is fine.

1682
02:26:37,700 --> 02:26:41,420
I have no issue with just being informative, but I get a notice.

1683
02:26:41,640 --> 02:26:44,380
My neighbor is getting a CFO. I don't have the right of appeal.

1684
02:26:45,640 --> 02:26:48,100
That ship is long sent sailed.

1685
02:26:51,040 --> 02:26:52,400
What's the endgame?

1686
02:26:52,440 --> 02:26:53,940
We can do the CFO or not.

1687
02:26:53,940 --> 02:26:55,780
Yeah, so we can talk better all day long.

1688
02:26:56,080 --> 02:27:06,380
Yeah, no, no, that's what I'm, but I, I think you want to not be prejudicial, because that, again, that's not the direction the state wants to go, so we just want to be careful about those.

1689
02:27:06,560 --> 02:27:12,760
Yeah, the question is whether that additional notice would be more restrictive or burdensome prejudice within the meaning of SB 180.

1690
02:27:13,460 --> 02:27:13,960
Exactly. Yeah.

1691
02:27:14,080 --> 02:27:15,020
We can take a look at it.

1692
02:27:15,020 --> 02:27:23,120
You know, it's another, if you're, if you were a member of the community who is intending to do the right thing, this, you know, none of this bothers you.

1693
02:27:23,120 --> 02:27:40,780
If you are somebody who has an alternative agenda, you also presumably understand litigation well enough to utilize that and are looking for any excuse to get yourself off the hook of something, so that's why I think it's important that you look over this.

1694
02:27:40,780 --> 02:27:46,040
So I don't think it would alter the course, it wouldn't alter the decision-making process

1695
02:27:46,520 --> 02:27:50,620
where the building official would be putting folks on notice, right?

1696
02:27:50,860 --> 02:27:51,440
That's what we're talking about.

1697
02:27:51,440 --> 02:27:52,200
That's our argument.

1698
02:27:52,360 --> 02:27:53,680
The question is, how is it for you?

1699
02:27:54,980 --> 02:27:56,880
Well, it's an important question.

1700
02:27:57,040 --> 02:27:57,800
I'll take a close look.

1701
02:27:58,680 --> 02:27:58,920
All right.

1702
02:28:00,420 --> 02:28:05,080
So, yes, I think the consensus is we're ready to have you come back with the ordinance.

1703
02:28:05,340 --> 02:28:05,620
Okay.

1704
02:28:06,720 --> 02:28:12,200
We need to make substantial revisions, we can always take it to the following meeting, but I think

1705
02:28:12,200 --> 02:28:13,780
we're nearly there.

1706
02:28:14,240 --> 02:28:14,360
Thank you.

1707
02:28:16,080 --> 02:28:16,720
All right.

1708
02:28:18,780 --> 02:28:21,740
We now have the town managers report.

1709
02:28:22,980 --> 02:28:28,840
Make pull this off before we are, uh, shade meeting, I don't believe I had anything that

1710
02:28:29,720 --> 02:28:30,060
had.

1711
02:28:30,760 --> 02:28:30,940
Good.

1712
02:28:31,020 --> 02:28:34,800
But I wasn't trying to suppress your report.

1713
02:28:35,900 --> 02:28:36,180
Yeah.

1714
02:28:36,180 --> 02:28:42,260
town attorney. Mary you might I think there was an item is an item 13 as well

1715
02:28:42,720 --> 02:28:52,320
the appeals. Oh the appeal process. Excuse me, I'm sorry. No, you're all right.

1716
02:28:52,540 --> 02:28:58,240
There you go. Is there anything? Well my notes. Ask you one question. I got fellow

1717
02:28:58,240 --> 02:29:03,080
sleep when I got through page three. Is there any way you can do an overview?

1718
02:29:07,360 --> 02:29:17,400
It's a little long-winded, and it serves as a nice set of, like some water.

1719
02:29:25,180 --> 02:29:30,400
So it's an item that's been before the Commission, at least three times now.

1720
02:29:30,400 --> 02:29:37,600
It would propose an amendment to Article 10, Division 8, and now it pairs with the unpermitted

1721
02:29:37,600 --> 02:29:38,180
work ordinance.

1722
02:29:38,500 --> 02:29:43,860
So the appeal would be initiated by filing that form, submitting the form within 30 days

1723
02:29:43,860 --> 02:29:44,920
of rendition.

1724
02:29:45,660 --> 02:29:50,060
As you directed the form and the fee alone, preserve the appeal, the draft includes an

1725
02:29:50,060 --> 02:29:55,520
expressed substantial compliance standard requiring no citations to LDRs that rely on for

1726
02:29:55,520 --> 02:29:59,440
appeal. They can simply attach. The appellant can just attach.

1727
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:04,740
The development order, or whatever the instrument is there appealing to their notice, and that would be sufficient.

1728
02:30:05,820 --> 02:30:14,200
The hearing would be held in the early 21 days, in a later than 60 days after filing, which cheers the ambiguity that we discussed in the meeting schedule.

1729
02:30:14,920 --> 02:30:25,400
It keeps the automatic stay in section 8.04, less the commission condition its continuation on a bond or other security with your discretion as to whether a bond would be required.

1730
02:30:25,400 --> 02:30:36,280
So, the new section 8.06 requires the clerk notice the appellants, the applicants, and anyone who requested it, plus a website posting.

1731
02:30:36,660 --> 02:30:44,360
I know that was an issue that was raised, a July's meeting, supplemental electronic notice, may go to public safety database.

1732
02:30:44,360 --> 02:30:57,460
There's opt-in that I can work with Bill on, on, on, on, for affecting that process, but the electronic notice supplements the statutory notice obviously can't replace it.

1733
02:30:57,560 --> 02:30:59,100
So the mailers would have to go out.

1734
02:30:59,440 --> 02:31:03,280
This would be over and above that statutory requirement for notice.

1735
02:31:07,760 --> 02:31:08,020
All right.

1736
02:31:08,100 --> 02:31:17,790
So where would you like to go from here, Mr. Tail, you would like a request to prepare ordinance?

1737
02:31:17,790 --> 02:31:22,710
I think it's ready to go. If you want, we can put it on a agenda for first reading,

1738
02:31:22,730 --> 02:31:23,850
October meeting.

1739
02:31:25,010 --> 02:31:25,990
But suit, everyone?

1740
02:31:27,110 --> 02:31:27,970
Yes. All right.

1741
02:31:29,930 --> 02:31:35,470
Now item 14, applicant, identification, discussion.

1742
02:31:36,970 --> 02:31:40,050
Mr. Teo will talk

1743
02:31:42,550 --> 02:31:43,870
about this one for us.

1744
02:31:43,870 --> 02:31:47,570
But let me say that, since we last met,

1745
02:31:47,570 --> 02:32:00,550
there was a request for a certificate of occupancy, and they asked the building department to sign a non-disclosure agreement,

1746
02:32:03,950 --> 02:32:04,850
looking inside,

1747
02:32:09,250 --> 02:32:10,770
or what they saw inside?

1748
02:32:11,290 --> 02:32:18,930
Well, I don't know. All I know is there was a request for a non-disclosure agreement, and that was...

1749
02:32:18,930 --> 02:32:23,090
Oh, no, we don't do that, but you know,

1750
02:32:25,890 --> 02:32:27,910
you're long past the days.

1751
02:32:28,170 --> 02:32:32,290
And I should say that was brought by the

1752
02:32:33,190 --> 02:32:35,970
an attorney is the agent there,

1753
02:32:36,050 --> 02:32:40,390
who regularly has clients who are LLCs.

1754
02:32:40,390 --> 02:32:43,610
And if you want to hide yourself, you hire this woman.

1755
02:32:44,670 --> 02:32:48,560
So, I don't like it.

1756
02:32:48,620 --> 02:32:50,160
I don't think...

1757
02:32:50,160 --> 02:32:53,660
I'll write it, and I'll

1758
02:32:56,660 --> 02:33:00,860
share your distrust of lawyers of the search.

1759
02:33:02,940 --> 02:33:08,220
So that was absolutely the right call, of course, by the building director, to some

1760
02:33:08,220 --> 02:33:14,480
merely reject the NDA, which as a local government, we can't agree to.

1761
02:33:15,060 --> 02:33:20,160
The item that you asked me to look into, Madam Mayor, we did find other examples of

1762
02:33:20,160 --> 02:33:23,240
of owner affidavits that require, tell us

1763
02:33:23,240 --> 02:33:25,160
through the natural person is of this LLC,

1764
02:33:25,820 --> 02:33:29,320
that is bringing the application for consideration.

1765
02:33:29,880 --> 02:33:31,340
That's something that we've been able to find.

1766
02:33:31,500 --> 02:33:35,360
We haven't found a process that was in place

1767
02:33:35,360 --> 02:33:37,940
or put in place after SB 180.

1768
02:33:38,180 --> 02:33:41,360
So the question becomes, could this be something

1769
02:33:41,360 --> 02:33:44,860
that a challenger, an objector, could argue,

1770
02:33:45,160 --> 02:33:48,040
well, it's more restrictive and more burdensome

1771
02:33:48,040 --> 02:33:51,000
to for me to have to identify myself as the applicant

1772
02:33:51,680 --> 02:33:55,220
rather than my holding company or special purpose entities.

1773
02:33:56,160 --> 02:34:00,100
So, that's an argument that we could and should expect.

1774
02:34:01,000 --> 02:34:03,680
But is it one that I think will win in court?

1775
02:34:04,320 --> 02:34:06,140
It's anyone's guess, a pretty good lawyer,

1776
02:34:06,260 --> 02:34:08,960
I think I could defend the town in such a challenge,

1777
02:34:09,240 --> 02:34:11,980
but we've got to consider those risks.

1778
02:34:12,780 --> 02:34:17,140
Well, and Miami does it, so maybe they join with you.

1779
02:34:17,140 --> 02:34:21,260
Our problem is the ownership of affidavit is essentially a transferable document.

1780
02:34:21,300 --> 02:34:26,140
You can designate anybody who you want, who can have, who can change the designate.

1781
02:34:26,260 --> 02:34:28,220
So I mean, it's, this is a paper tiger.

1782
02:34:28,620 --> 02:34:32,280
This is not something that is going to get you what you want.

1783
02:34:33,340 --> 02:34:39,200
Well, the right to privacy and the end of the day, in most issues in this country, trumps almost

1784
02:34:39,200 --> 02:34:40,000
anything else.

1785
02:34:40,080 --> 02:34:45,660
Unless you happen to be on a government database, like a sex offender database, where there's

1786
02:34:45,660 --> 02:34:52,960
reporting requirement or what have you, and so that's really as far as, in my experience, so far

1787
02:34:52,960 --> 02:34:59,400
as the only thing that I've seen that really is definitive, anything else. I mean, you

1788
02:34:59,400 --> 02:35:05,420
can always, every, I've never seen a residential contract that doesn't have some transferability,

1789
02:35:05,580 --> 02:35:10,100
somewhere along the line, because people always reserve that, whether it's for tax purposes

1790
02:35:10,100 --> 02:35:10,800
or whatever.

1791
02:35:10,800 --> 02:35:17,300
It's a property right, you can always convey your property and anyone who doesn't want to disclose who they are.

1792
02:35:17,480 --> 02:35:23,580
Their identity through the process, if clever enough and takes the time and money to do it could tap the answer around the requirement.

1793
02:35:23,980 --> 02:35:24,360
That's fantastic.

1794
02:35:24,360 --> 02:35:30,900
I would just think it's much much to do about nothing if people really want to retain their,

1795
02:35:33,420 --> 02:35:35,180
whatever privacy they'll do it.

1796
02:35:35,180 --> 02:35:39,780
Well, I don't think there's no tell you about it.

1797
02:35:40,000 --> 02:35:40,360
All right.

1798
02:35:41,240 --> 02:35:46,780
So right now, some people use the LLC because they don't want

1799
02:35:46,780 --> 02:35:49,560
their financial information public.

1800
02:35:50,700 --> 02:35:53,720
And now we're saying we're going to take that away from you.

1801
02:35:55,780 --> 02:35:59,580
And you're going to have to give us your name.

1802
02:36:00,440 --> 02:36:02,500
OK, the question is, OK, what do we do with that name?

1803
02:36:03,000 --> 02:36:10,500
Well, wait a minute, let me just finish because this is unintended consequences to this.

1804
02:36:11,300 --> 02:36:14,720
Well, because then we say, no, you have to, you have to give us your name.

1805
02:36:15,340 --> 02:36:20,400
Then you have this little thing called media, Palm Beach Post,

1806
02:36:22,020 --> 02:36:25,500
and what they've done to us before was something less than that.

1807
02:36:26,580 --> 02:36:29,960
They're going to say, well, what are you going to do with that information?

1808
02:36:29,960 --> 02:36:35,980
are you going to look at the names and then decide something about that?

1809
02:36:37,540 --> 02:36:43,620
If you do it, be prepared, the listeners and reporters will call you up and say, okay,

1810
02:36:43,700 --> 02:36:44,580
you pass this thing.

1811
02:36:44,680 --> 02:36:46,080
What are you going to do with the information?

1812
02:36:47,420 --> 02:36:50,420
Are you going to discriminate against somebody or something like that?

1813
02:36:51,360 --> 02:36:53,140
That's an unintended consequence.

1814
02:36:54,000 --> 02:36:59,120
We don't want that that would be like a harm show here.

1815
02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:01,200
Well, right the media on that,

1816
02:37:04,180 --> 02:37:09,740
you know, we are long past the days when everybody on the island

1817
02:37:09,740 --> 02:37:19,820
knew each other and nothing went on that the jungle drones didn't report. And everything was by name.

1818
02:37:20,060 --> 02:37:28,920
Now we have a bunch of anonymous speculators changing the way we look, the way we feel, the

1819
02:37:28,920 --> 02:37:29,980
quality of life.

1820
02:37:30,000 --> 02:37:44,180
Every day, and you try to find out who they are, they don't have to tell you. So we had a guy come in and say, oh yeah, I want to demolish this house and build a house there that I'm going to live in.

1821
02:37:46,360 --> 02:37:53,820
He was the agent. He was a realtor telling that telling our people under oath that he was going to live there.

1822
02:37:53,820 --> 02:37:59,460
never intended to live there and so who is the real party in interest who sense this guy in

1823
02:38:00,160 --> 02:38:08,260
to purge himself because he was sworn that day. So who is the real party in interest? Why don't they want

1824
02:38:08,260 --> 02:38:14,420
us to know? Maybe because as a privacy issue, I'm never on their part. Don't forget, there's another thing

1825
02:38:14,420 --> 02:38:22,620
besides the media coming in and getting up and arms about that. There's also the legal issue. I think

1826
02:38:22,620 --> 02:38:29,260
We know there is some lawyers here in this area that would love to represent everybody

1827
02:38:29,260 --> 02:38:32,120
who had to put their name in a foreign possible.

1828
02:38:32,280 --> 02:38:35,840
You know, I'm not worried about that.

1829
02:38:36,680 --> 02:38:38,980
Again, what's Miami's experience?

1830
02:38:39,320 --> 02:38:40,960
What is the county's experience?

1831
02:38:41,000 --> 02:38:47,620
Because the county dealt with this and requires designation of the real party in interest.

1832
02:38:48,680 --> 02:38:51,160
And we, Celine Dion didn't have a problem.

1833
02:38:51,160 --> 02:38:57,660
Firewoods doesn't have a problem. John Malone doesn't have a problem. Are you kidding me?

1834
02:38:58,180 --> 02:39:02,760
Who wants a non-disclosure agreement for three-twent? It's insane.

1835
02:39:02,820 --> 02:39:14,540
We just have to be careful because we've already had commissioners and members of boards in the town resigned due to prejudicial behavior.

1836
02:39:14,540 --> 02:39:23,880
But during the whole last litigation people using terms is they're not our kind of people and that will never go away

1837
02:39:24,440 --> 02:39:27,760
So we happen with this absolutely 100 percent

1838
02:39:27,760 --> 02:39:29,440
Not 100 percent

1839
02:39:29,440 --> 02:39:31,000
Can you guarantee this?

1840
02:39:31,000 --> 02:39:33,080
Newspapers aren't going to get involved with this?

1841
02:39:33,360 --> 02:39:39,320
If we are allowed to require the real party in interest to be identified

1842
02:39:39,320 --> 02:39:43,320
You know, I'm for hold the day, they don't have to, but they must be identified.

1843
02:39:43,740 --> 02:39:44,960
You don't get to send there.

1844
02:39:44,980 --> 02:39:46,320
How do you define that?

1845
02:39:46,380 --> 02:39:47,360
I mean, my house is owned by...

1846
02:39:47,360 --> 02:39:48,480
What does Miami do?

1847
02:39:48,820 --> 02:39:50,220
What does it call the other two?

1848
02:39:50,880 --> 02:39:57,900
Usually at least a 10% beneficial interest in the company holding the property is what I've seen

1849
02:39:57,900 --> 02:39:58,760
in other jurisdictions.

1850
02:39:59,360 --> 02:40:06,160
You know, it could be drafted to be facially neutral, where the language itself is not discriminatory,

1851
02:40:06,160 --> 02:40:11,000
But the concerns that commissioners, Tadio, and feel their reasoners that in practice.

1852
02:40:11,520 --> 02:40:14,640
Because we already have a history of doing that.

1853
02:40:14,740 --> 02:40:15,340
Well, not you.

1854
02:40:15,500 --> 02:40:16,720
No, no, not this committee.

1855
02:40:17,020 --> 02:40:21,480
The members of this past commission, who were forced to resign under the dress,

1856
02:40:22,360 --> 02:40:26,480
resigned because of inappropriate text and emails that came to light.

1857
02:40:26,760 --> 02:40:28,360
And the same with committee members on here.

1858
02:40:28,400 --> 02:40:30,380
We just don't need to go around down that road again.

1859
02:40:30,980 --> 02:40:33,660
Because my answer would be, first would be,

1860
02:40:33,660 --> 02:40:40,520
why do you need to know? What's your, what is your justification for needing to know who the owner is?

1861
02:40:40,880 --> 02:40:47,980
Curiosity. I mean, like you have to have a justification that holds up under scrutiny and I just don't think there is one.

1862
02:40:47,980 --> 02:40:53,600
You're going to have to say the legislative intent behind the counties,

1863
02:40:55,760 --> 02:40:57,360
requirement, my ammys,

1864
02:40:57,620 --> 02:41:03,900
requirement, and any other local government in Florida that has such a requirement, I'd be interested to you.

1865
02:41:04,880 --> 02:41:12,020
I understand what you're saying. I don't agree that you're narrative about previous commissioners.

1866
02:41:12,360 --> 02:41:14,420
That's already established back, though.

1867
02:41:14,420 --> 02:41:16,540
No, it's not about the previous one.

1868
02:41:16,540 --> 02:41:18,940
A commissioner did not make any remark.

1869
02:41:19,320 --> 02:41:20,420
I do, yes, they did.

1870
02:41:21,200 --> 02:41:24,520
It was, I mean, we have, we haven't done that talking about commissioners.

1871
02:41:24,520 --> 02:41:27,860
I'm talking about the newspaper asking you,

1872
02:41:27,920 --> 02:41:29,940
each one of us, you do not even have a newspaper.

1873
02:41:30,440 --> 02:41:33,100
You cannot, what happened the last time was,

1874
02:41:33,120 --> 02:41:34,300
get his thing.

1875
02:41:34,860 --> 02:41:36,200
That came out.

1876
02:41:38,080 --> 02:41:41,040
The newspapers are going to say, hey, what are you doing with this,

1877
02:41:41,060 --> 02:41:43,500
with this, you want the first to say?

1878
02:41:43,500 --> 02:41:51,180
Why? What are you going to do with that information? Who is going to look at the information and look at the information?

1879
02:41:52,080 --> 02:41:52,840
Every single person?

1880
02:41:52,860 --> 02:41:55,120
A residential community.

1881
02:41:55,500 --> 02:41:55,980
Which only?

1882
02:41:56,740 --> 02:41:58,160
We ought to know.

1883
02:41:59,320 --> 02:41:59,660
Why?

1884
02:42:00,420 --> 02:42:01,160
What you're saying?

1885
02:42:01,160 --> 02:42:02,680
What safety needs to know who lives.

1886
02:42:03,060 --> 02:42:04,920
But public safety is only right to know.

1887
02:42:05,000 --> 02:42:06,220
They don't need to know either.

1888
02:42:06,380 --> 02:42:10,660
Public safety only has a right to know if somebody is a registered sex offender.

1889
02:42:11,080 --> 02:42:14,300
I think that's the only list so far that you have access to it.

1890
02:42:14,300 --> 02:42:21,440
So other than that, I just think that you're just waving a flag, asking for trouble because

1891
02:42:21,440 --> 02:42:26,000
you have no right to make any action based on that knowledge.

1892
02:42:26,080 --> 02:42:28,500
So you might say I have a divine right to know who it is.

1893
02:42:28,800 --> 02:42:30,180
So I say to what end?

1894
02:42:31,280 --> 02:42:39,440
Well, well, well, what, I mean, like, unless you're, even if they're on a registry, I don't

1895
02:42:39,440 --> 02:42:43,720
know that you can preclude them unless you're too proximal to a school or something like that.

1896
02:42:43,720 --> 02:42:49,280
Does every home on the island have a person who is reachable should something happen to this house,

1897
02:42:49,280 --> 02:42:55,180
whether it's registered as an LLC, but is there an emergency contact person, a manager of the house?

1898
02:42:55,740 --> 02:42:57,880
The chief can speak to that commissioner.

1899
02:43:01,880 --> 02:43:08,820
We maintain a resident file, it's a voluntary resident file, but we encourage every resident to keep

1900
02:43:08,820 --> 02:43:16,740
on file with us, the actual residents on the property managers, you know, pretty much everything

1901
02:43:16,740 --> 02:43:24,400
thing related to that household, which is I would suggest exempt from public record.

1902
02:43:25,440 --> 02:43:30,180
What you're asking for obviously would become a public record so regardless of the reason

1903
02:43:30,180 --> 02:43:35,540
for collecting the property owner's name, it then becomes a public record and has to be

1904
02:43:35,540 --> 02:43:35,960
released.

1905
02:43:36,500 --> 02:43:41,400
What we maintain does not, so that's another element of what you're talking about.

1906
02:43:41,400 --> 02:43:48,880
My concern is directly, somebody is aware of our good friend, Mr. Love, is aware of these proceedings.

1907
02:43:49,780 --> 02:43:54,160
And so his first thing is going to be, why does the mayor want to know who this is?

1908
02:43:54,440 --> 02:44:03,960
If the mayor doesn't like them, is she going to try and use her position to influence the building department to make their process more difficult than it would already be?

1909
02:44:04,400 --> 02:44:10,300
And fundamentally, you're put in a position of having to prove the negative that you didn't do that.

1910
02:44:10,300 --> 02:44:16,500
because the very fact that you that you've asked to know who it is and your position of influence in the town

1911
02:44:16,960 --> 02:44:22,260
it already makes you guilty as far as far as the press is going to be concerned.

1912
02:44:22,260 --> 02:44:31,300
So Mr. Teal, can you report back whether we have right to ask the real party and interest to be?

1913
02:44:33,570 --> 02:44:36,290
You can do that, but you can't force them to say anything.

1914
02:44:36,290 --> 02:44:39,170
You wait and see the newspaper on it.

1915
02:44:39,170 --> 02:44:41,490
Okay, I want legal basis of this.

1916
02:44:41,590 --> 02:44:45,790
I don't want any armchair lawyer in to put this off.

1917
02:44:45,870 --> 02:44:47,870
That armchair lawyer, I guess it's a media.

1918
02:44:48,870 --> 02:44:49,950
What are they going to say?

1919
02:44:50,390 --> 02:44:55,870
First, there are some things you can do by law that are still not a good idea to do.

1920
02:44:56,310 --> 02:44:59,750
Yeah, I've seen this done in other jurisdictions.

1921
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:16,220
And it's part of the process, I think, you know, it's natural for commissioners to want to know is this, this big construction project you're proposing are going to have you done it before as a developer are going to leave it half built and walk away from the site.

1922
02:45:16,220 --> 02:45:19,480
feel not around to deny a permit, that's the problem.

1923
02:45:19,780 --> 02:45:22,480
That really only comes into things like financing.

1924
02:45:23,140 --> 02:45:24,580
So if you're trying to get financing,

1925
02:45:25,000 --> 02:45:26,920
your track record can be held against you.

1926
02:45:27,100 --> 02:45:28,880
But if you're trying to get a construction permit,

1927
02:45:29,020 --> 02:45:31,560
there's no grounds with holding a construction permit

1928
02:45:31,560 --> 02:45:34,320
based on how many projects you've left half done.

1929
02:45:34,680 --> 02:45:34,720
Right.

1930
02:45:34,740 --> 02:45:36,880
So you're talking about actually in practice

1931
02:45:36,880 --> 02:45:38,160
and how it's used.

1932
02:45:38,200 --> 02:45:38,620
Exactly.

1933
02:45:38,960 --> 02:45:40,160
Now the law on its face.

1934
02:45:40,160 --> 02:45:43,440
It's nice, more carefully when you have a known scoff log,

1935
02:45:43,780 --> 02:45:45,780
but you can't, because everybody's supposed

1936
02:45:45,780 --> 02:45:46,780
to get the same treatment.

1937
02:45:46,820 --> 02:45:49,980
So the very fact that you said more scrutiny again,

1938
02:45:50,180 --> 02:45:52,360
you're now right in the face of 180 and you're right

1939
02:45:52,360 --> 02:45:55,180
against, you bump into all sorts of problems

1940
02:45:55,180 --> 02:45:58,680
because common sense doesn't matter when it deals

1941
02:45:58,680 --> 02:46:00,100
with no matters of the law.

1942
02:46:00,500 --> 02:46:03,340
Any other thing to people in this town feel looking

1943
02:46:03,340 --> 02:46:06,180
at the newspaper talking about the commission,

1944
02:46:07,520 --> 02:46:09,180
maybe discriminating against people?

1945
02:46:09,260 --> 02:46:11,060
What else are you going to do with that information?

1946
02:46:12,720 --> 02:46:14,840
We want to hear, you want to hear outrage.

1947
02:46:16,960 --> 02:46:20,040
I don't think we need to spend any more time on this.

1948
02:46:20,080 --> 02:46:23,860
I think Mr. Teal needs to come back to us with a definitive answer.

1949
02:46:24,460 --> 02:46:29,800
Not about what might happen if we do what we are, what we did back to ever right to do.

1950
02:46:30,480 --> 02:46:34,800
Right. I don't agree with this. This meeting I guarantee you, somebody is going to make it.

1951
02:46:34,880 --> 02:46:41,140
I don't necessarily agree with Marshall's comment about why do we care that they left other projects undone when they come here.

1952
02:46:41,340 --> 02:46:42,440
They shouldn't be discriminated again.

1953
02:46:42,440 --> 02:46:44,380
You can't discriminate them.

1954
02:46:44,820 --> 02:46:51,040
You cannot, that is not, sadly, that's not grounds to deny anything.

1955
02:46:51,380 --> 02:46:54,720
It's with me to, for me, it would be common sense to, right?

1956
02:46:54,820 --> 02:46:58,080
But common sense would be common, common sense in the war,

1957
02:46:58,200 --> 02:46:59,380
not always the same thing.

1958
02:46:59,940 --> 02:47:01,740
So, are you both were talking the same time, what?

1959
02:47:01,880 --> 02:47:06,200
Just to, just to frame this, I think what we're seeing here is,

1960
02:47:06,220 --> 02:47:08,280
what I would consider growing pains, right?

1961
02:47:08,400 --> 02:47:11,000
I mean, to your point, everybody knew everybody,

1962
02:47:11,000 --> 02:47:17,260
times you're changing. We have two houses on South Beach Road on by the same property

1963
02:47:17,260 --> 02:47:23,560
on or don't know who they are, who wanted an NDA to go in and do a final inspection.

1964
02:47:24,600 --> 02:47:31,200
Times are changing, right? And so the question is, legally, that's one piece of it,

1965
02:47:31,240 --> 02:47:37,680
what can be done, and then collectively, the commission is decide what they choose to do about

1966
02:47:37,680 --> 02:47:38,180
it.

1967
02:47:38,180 --> 02:47:43,480
So we'll continue the legal basis first.

1968
02:47:43,780 --> 02:47:47,300
We'll do a more exhaustive search, SB180's relatively new.

1969
02:47:47,480 --> 02:47:57,240
So those types of regulations haven't, the challenges to those types of regulations have not worked their way to the courts.

1970
02:47:57,540 --> 02:48:07,460
We're checking, we'll continue to check, and we'll take a closer look and do a more comprehensive search of similar

1971
02:48:08,620 --> 02:48:12,060
similar regulations and any challenges to those regulations.

1972
02:48:13,500 --> 02:48:18,060
We can't know, there's no way of knowing what happened in the future, the different commission

1973
02:48:18,580 --> 02:48:20,060
in practice, right?

1974
02:48:20,060 --> 02:48:26,960
All I can do is tell you, this is a facially neutral ordinance that we'll pass a muster

1975
02:48:26,960 --> 02:48:32,120
or has a good chance of passing a muster, which is still not known because we don't know

1976
02:48:32,120 --> 02:48:35,680
how SB 180 challenges will play out in that context.

1977
02:48:35,680 --> 02:48:44,200
I can give you a more confident answer on our, on our odds of success if we look into it a little bit longer.

1978
02:48:47,720 --> 02:48:59,180
So we have concluded item 14, it is noon and we must break for our next session.

1979
02:49:00,460 --> 02:49:04,160
And the main manager's report is done.

1980
02:49:06,860 --> 02:49:09,660
No, I think, well, we have to come back for the rest of it.

1981
02:49:09,860 --> 02:49:11,260
So we might as well.

1982
02:49:11,300 --> 02:49:12,440
We said there was nothing to report.

1983
02:49:13,180 --> 02:49:15,880
Okay, then we can consider number 15.

1984
02:49:16,440 --> 02:49:20,340
A accomplished, and we'll come back for the

1985
02:49:20,340 --> 02:49:24,300
town attorney building department, public works, and public safety.

1986
02:49:25,060 --> 02:49:27,380
Then we will do this as a bar you.

1987
02:49:27,380 --> 02:49:28,280
And

1988
02:50:26,390 --> 02:50:31,090
then we're going to do SMRU, it's scheduled for one, and I'm thinking we're going to make it.

1989
02:50:36,400 --> 02:50:36,680
All right.

1990
02:50:37,140 --> 02:50:45,140
So we now have one more chance for the town manager to report on anything that he thinks is important.

1991
02:50:45,780 --> 02:50:46,360
Nothing further.

1992
02:50:46,940 --> 02:50:47,980
Oh, thank you.

1993
02:50:48,300 --> 02:50:48,980
Town attorney.

1994
02:50:49,920 --> 02:50:59,120
So I put together some ideas I had for potential DR amendments that are based on

1995
02:50:59,120 --> 02:51:03,960
HB-399 and HB-803.

1996
02:51:04,980 --> 02:51:06,120
They need workshopping.

1997
02:51:07,120 --> 02:51:07,520
I think.

1998
02:51:08,880 --> 02:51:09,000
Right.

1999
02:51:09,880 --> 02:51:14,500
So those new statutes do a number of things that

2000
02:51:14,500 --> 02:51:19,720
purport to govern or add more controls over local governments,

2001
02:51:19,720 --> 02:51:23,500
review of site plan applications and development applications.

2002
02:51:24,260 --> 02:51:25,960
Among them, you know, for example,

2003
02:51:25,960 --> 02:51:32,180
a local government cannot rely solely on community character or inconsistency with community

2004
02:51:32,180 --> 02:51:37,080
character as a reason for it denying a cyclone application.

2005
02:51:38,080 --> 02:51:41,600
There needs to be written findings supporting a denial.

2006
02:51:42,380 --> 02:51:48,920
There should be an opportunity to the applicant to mitigate any adverse impacts.

2007
02:51:49,400 --> 02:51:51,820
These are all statutory news, statutory requirements.

2008
02:51:51,820 --> 02:51:59,580
things that the building department already does in practice, there is not written into our code

2009
02:51:59,580 --> 02:52:07,440
expressly. So to remove any doubts as to our compliance, you know, I will bring something

2010
02:52:07,440 --> 02:52:13,560
for discussion, I think probably in the October meeting, that will address some potential

2011
02:52:13,560 --> 02:52:14,240
changes.

2012
02:52:17,400 --> 02:52:23,200
I tell I ask he seems determined to turn us into the student council. It's just

2013
02:52:23,200 --> 02:52:29,980
unbelievable. All right, so now we have, oh and I had occasion yesterday.

2014
02:52:30,000 --> 02:52:59,980
Today, to talk to Mr. Teo and preparation for this meeting, and asked if I frequently will take an ordinance or that at the other thing related to the town and run it through chat GPT, just to see what it says, or to get a lead on where to find an answer to a question I might have about.

2015
02:52:59,980 --> 02:53:09,100
process, et cetera, et cetera. And it occurred to me that those chats might be considered

2016
02:53:09,100 --> 02:53:23,680
public records. And so I've asked Mr. Teal to report back to us on whether or not our sessions

2017
02:53:23,680 --> 02:53:31,220
with chat GPT if they in any way involve the town, our public records, and discoverable as such.

2018
02:53:32,100 --> 02:53:35,900
You're looking at yourself, period, not discussing it with us. Just you.

2019
02:53:37,920 --> 02:53:39,180
The chat is you picked up a book.

2020
02:53:39,440 --> 02:53:43,760
When I look into a chat, GPT may say that another commissioner said blah blah blah.

2021
02:53:43,780 --> 02:53:48,380
No, I've never seen that, but anyway, some guidance, please, must see.

2022
02:53:48,380 --> 02:53:53,760
And almost always is going to be a public record with some narrow exceptions to that.

2023
02:53:54,480 --> 02:53:59,120
What I would advise, and I'll give you more detailed analysis on our next meeting,

2024
02:53:59,620 --> 02:54:05,000
but I have looked at the research, and it is something that I'm glad you raised, because

2025
02:54:05,000 --> 02:54:05,880
it is a concern.

2026
02:54:07,400 --> 02:54:08,780
I'm your chatGPT.

2027
02:54:08,800 --> 02:54:12,000
If you have any questions, there are certainly legally related.

2028
02:54:12,100 --> 02:54:18,160
You can always ask me, and that way is-

2029
02:54:18,160 --> 02:54:26,080
That's fair, that's fair, but just be mindful that whatever you're putting into an AI platform

2030
02:54:26,080 --> 02:54:28,060
could very well be fair again.

2031
02:54:28,200 --> 02:54:32,740
Wait a minute, so if I look at, I got perplexity and bang, I use those two.

2032
02:54:32,740 --> 02:54:33,060
Right,

2033
02:54:40,810 --> 02:54:45,170
so he asked about, please use your mic, commissioner, I'm sorry, you know.

2034
02:54:45,710 --> 02:54:49,950
Right, so commissioner Tattoa, you asked about whether if you ask a question to an

2035
02:54:49,950 --> 02:54:52,450
I didn't hear the platforms that you mentioned.

2036
02:54:52,750 --> 02:54:54,530
Herplexity or bank, neither one.

2037
02:54:54,850 --> 02:54:56,930
And that look, I think these are just search engines.

2038
02:54:57,990 --> 02:54:59,770
I don't think that's going to be an issue.

2039
02:54:59,910 --> 02:55:00,610
I can look at that.

2040
02:55:00,770 --> 02:55:02,510
That's a different animal.

2041
02:55:03,810 --> 02:55:06,370
You know, it really occupants on the context.

2042
02:55:06,910 --> 02:55:09,870
If you're researching something that we discussed,

2043
02:55:11,010 --> 02:55:12,850
it could fall under attorney client privilege

2044
02:55:12,850 --> 02:55:15,930
or work product doctrine as an exemption

2045
02:55:16,550 --> 02:55:18,910
to chapter 119 to the Florida Statutes.

2046
02:55:18,910 --> 02:55:20,570
if there's ongoing or threatened litigation.

2047
02:55:21,390 --> 02:55:24,310
But if you're just researching for legislative purposes

2048
02:55:24,310 --> 02:55:27,570
or something like that, it could be the subject

2049
02:55:27,570 --> 02:55:29,070
of a public records request.

2050
02:55:29,530 --> 02:55:33,650
And if you're keeping notes and records,

2051
02:55:33,910 --> 02:55:37,270
those would be produced in response.

2052
02:55:37,670 --> 02:55:39,330
They would be available for production.

2053
02:55:41,450 --> 02:55:44,170
The last thing I asked it was,

2054
02:55:44,410 --> 02:55:47,290
are my talks with you considered public records?

2055
02:55:47,290 --> 02:55:48,270
It's a problem.

2056
02:55:49,170 --> 02:55:50,210
And it said yes?

2057
02:55:53,420 --> 02:55:57,340
It's in as much as you are a Jupiter island commissioner.

2058
02:56:00,440 --> 02:56:01,800
I didn't say I was a commissioner.

2059
02:56:03,660 --> 02:56:05,180
So it keeps a memory.

2060
02:56:05,580 --> 02:56:07,160
Yeah, that's what I think.

2061
02:56:07,980 --> 02:56:12,540
And to push back on your earlier point, Mayor.

2062
02:56:14,020 --> 02:56:19,180
I have a flat fear arrangement for communication with any time representative, right?

2063
02:56:19,180 --> 02:56:24,600
So, you know, use it and abuse it as needed, not a problem.

2064
02:56:28,300 --> 02:56:29,380
We're capped it.

2065
02:56:29,380 --> 02:56:32,020
I think $2,500 for all town communications.

2066
02:56:32,420 --> 02:56:35,080
Even on Sunday, like we did yesterday.

2067
02:56:35,840 --> 02:56:36,480
Always a pleasure.

2068
02:56:43,870 --> 02:56:44,130
Well,

2069
02:56:46,620 --> 02:56:51,230
it's, can't keep up with AI.

2070
02:56:52,770 --> 02:56:53,550
It's a little bit of the answer.

2071
02:56:53,770 --> 02:56:54,470
It'll be different tomorrow.

2072
02:56:54,510 --> 02:56:57,970
You actually talked back and forth about that.

2073
02:56:58,810 --> 02:57:01,370
Well, I just look at that information.

2074
02:57:02,270 --> 02:57:08,510
So yesterday, I said, is a request for an official's telephone records appropriate under Florida

2075
02:57:09,270 --> 02:57:10,170
sunshine lock?

2076
02:57:10,170 --> 02:57:12,470
Do they get to ask you for your phone records?

2077
02:57:13,790 --> 02:57:18,230
And it can be, but it's proper scope is limited.

2078
02:57:18,490 --> 02:57:24,950
Technically, this is governed by blah, blah, and you get all this blah, blah, but my request

2079
02:57:24,950 --> 02:57:29,580
and its answer are a public record.

2080
02:57:30,240 --> 02:57:32,520
And if you have an account and you're paying for that account,

2081
02:57:32,600 --> 02:57:37,320
if it's open AI, those have been hacked many times.

2082
02:57:37,740 --> 02:57:42,640
You'll see hacked conversations coming from anthropic models,

2083
02:57:43,400 --> 02:57:44,500
from open AI models.

2084
02:57:45,720 --> 02:57:47,320
So that's what makes it public?

2085
02:57:48,880 --> 02:57:55,640
But if I just pull out my statute book or my sunshine manual,

2086
02:57:57,050 --> 02:58:04,210
There's no record of that, but if I ask a search engine, that's a record.

2087
02:58:05,770 --> 02:58:08,150
A search engine is a different scenario.

2088
02:58:09,370 --> 02:58:15,490
If you're asking AI, it's a third party, essentially, a third party vendor, you're giving

2089
02:58:15,490 --> 02:58:19,430
information to get information back, right?

2090
02:58:19,970 --> 02:58:26,890
And that exchange under some circumstances has been subject to production under public records

2091
02:58:29,970 --> 02:58:38,470
I'll give you the exact circumstances where we can consider it protected, but better to be safe.

2092
02:58:39,130 --> 02:58:43,330
But I can look up basements on barrier art.

2093
02:58:43,350 --> 02:58:45,090
I mean, that's a research if you may.

2094
02:58:45,750 --> 02:58:47,130
Yeah, they should be good.

2095
02:58:47,330 --> 02:58:49,030
It says not good for barrier art.

2096
02:58:49,850 --> 02:58:51,550
Or it's a barrier island span.

2097
02:58:51,870 --> 02:58:56,150
Whatever you're using your phone for, as long as it's for town business,

2098
02:58:56,150 --> 02:59:00,510
is arguably subject to production in the public record's laws.

2099
02:59:05,130 --> 02:59:05,970
Thanks for asking us.

2100
02:59:06,170 --> 02:59:07,610
For example, I am of asking,

2101
02:59:11,760 --> 02:59:14,520
who's behind this building at sevens out

2102
02:59:14,520 --> 02:59:17,820
with it ignores the laws anyway.

2103
02:59:18,900 --> 02:59:19,280
All right.

2104
02:59:20,020 --> 02:59:24,140
We are moving on to the building department report.

2105
02:59:24,640 --> 02:59:25,960
Anything more, Mr. Taylor?

2106
02:59:26,120 --> 02:59:26,760
That's all.

2107
02:59:27,520 --> 02:59:28,080
Thank you.

2108
02:59:28,260 --> 02:59:30,100
I may have de-rayled us and I want to clap.

2109
02:59:30,100 --> 02:59:32,460
That's an important point.

2110
02:59:32,920 --> 02:59:34,440
Just very quickly, Mayor.

2111
02:59:34,600 --> 02:59:36,860
You have the building department report in front of you.

2112
02:59:37,040 --> 02:59:38,020
It's essentially data.

2113
02:59:39,280 --> 02:59:42,140
There was no development review board meeting this month.

2114
02:59:42,900 --> 02:59:44,580
And we do have one schedule for October.

2115
02:59:45,180 --> 02:59:49,300
But I don't believe we have anything currently scheduled

2116
02:59:49,300 --> 02:59:51,720
on an agenda even for October.

2117
02:59:53,940 --> 02:59:57,160
We spoke about several things that have to do with the building

2118
02:59:57,160 --> 02:59:59,920
Department earlier that we'll be bringing back, you know, obviously.

2119
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:14,780
It has changed to approve development orders, repeal process, the applicant identification, discussion, all to be continued, but if there's any questions about the report you have in front of you, I'll try to answer or get the answer for you.

2120
03:00:17,080 --> 03:00:25,680
Yeah, I remember asking Catherine if we could get some more information from the building department, and we've gotten too far that way.

2121
03:00:25,680 --> 03:00:30,260
It would look more for some kind of a summary.

2122
03:00:31,220 --> 03:00:34,020
You have the code compliance enforcement.

2123
03:00:34,400 --> 03:00:38,360
I don't need all of this information.

2124
03:00:40,640 --> 03:00:44,160
I'm just trying to get something more summary type.

2125
03:00:46,650 --> 03:00:48,050
I understand commissioner.

2126
03:00:48,910 --> 03:00:52,850
And it's not just, it's all the commissioners.

2127
03:00:53,830 --> 03:00:57,250
We're looking for an executive summary report,

2128
03:00:57,250 --> 03:01:01,570
rather than waiting through the backup material, I get it.

2129
03:01:01,790 --> 03:01:06,630
It applies to SMRU, it applies to the building department and everything else we do.

2130
03:01:07,250 --> 03:01:09,170
So that's the direction we're going in.

2131
03:01:09,410 --> 03:01:13,930
And it helps a lot. You know what you're looking for when or when.

2132
03:01:15,370 --> 03:01:16,670
Yeah, I agree. How do you understand?

2133
03:01:17,690 --> 03:01:25,430
So the building reports that the enforcement summary reports, I find extremely interesting.

2134
03:01:25,430 --> 03:01:35,030
just a suggestion about format, hard to know under the comments, whether the comments

2135
03:01:35,910 --> 03:01:48,470
are a perenn of the address or, for instance, 320 South Beach Road on the first one.

2136
03:01:49,390 --> 03:01:56,830
So, does while inspecting a delivery truck in the roadway without flagging, does that go

2137
03:01:56,830 --> 03:02:05,370
with 320 South Beach road or 318, and that's the non-disclosure people?

2138
03:02:08,330 --> 03:02:13,690
Anyway, so it should be clear where the comments, do you see what I mean at the comments?

2139
03:02:13,690 --> 03:02:16,630
I do. I understand.

2140
03:02:18,810 --> 03:02:29,060
And then this is extremely interesting and that's

2141
03:02:31,910 --> 03:02:34,430
where I put a name over the violation.

2142
03:02:36,670 --> 03:02:51,360
And then on the building department report, the construction revenue, I just, we have numbers,

2143
03:02:52,700 --> 03:02:56,400
but I don't know what context to put it in.

2144
03:02:56,840 --> 03:02:58,020
So a little more context.

2145
03:02:58,400 --> 03:03:03,120
One second, what you just said, is I can do your mic.

2146
03:03:03,700 --> 03:03:05,740
Like to parse this with our attorney.

2147
03:03:05,740 --> 03:03:11,680
And as much as I don't think that we can ask for identities when it comes to applications,

2148
03:03:12,300 --> 03:03:18,360
when it comes to infractions, that's a completely different issue.

2149
03:03:19,340 --> 03:03:25,480
If we want to publish the ownership or what have you, that's a completely different issue

2150
03:03:25,480 --> 03:03:28,260
because that is in response to a violation.

2151
03:03:29,060 --> 03:03:30,600
It's not preemptive.

2152
03:03:30,740 --> 03:03:31,000
Right.

2153
03:03:31,000 --> 03:03:32,920
in non-credgenitual in any way.

2154
03:03:33,320 --> 03:03:35,940
Right, and you're citing the record owner.

2155
03:03:36,080 --> 03:03:37,380
Yeah, which is still not enough for me.

2156
03:03:38,900 --> 03:03:40,640
That to me is the difference for...

2157
03:03:40,640 --> 03:03:43,940
Well, the record owner is an attorney from Palm Beach.

2158
03:03:44,320 --> 03:03:45,060
That's fine.

2159
03:03:45,440 --> 03:03:47,160
That is the case sometimes.

2160
03:03:48,120 --> 03:03:49,200
But that's a place to start.

2161
03:03:49,520 --> 03:03:49,920
There you go.

2162
03:03:50,560 --> 03:03:52,540
What, mayor, what was your point about the revenue?

2163
03:03:54,300 --> 03:03:59,240
I just wish that we have some context.

2164
03:03:59,240 --> 03:04:06,560
So we have permits issued, construction value, building fees, what should I take that to

2165
03:04:06,560 --> 03:04:12,240
represent, what does that tell me? Is it telling me something or it's just...

2166
03:04:13,000 --> 03:04:13,020
Yeah.

2167
03:04:14,640 --> 03:04:14,820
Yeah.

2168
03:04:15,400 --> 03:04:18,780
Well, what am I, now I can't ask AI, what it means?

2169
03:04:18,980 --> 03:04:22,540
Well, in response and come to you, we're looking for a comparison to previous revenue.

2170
03:04:22,900 --> 03:04:26,080
Well, I just did a revenue, but why are we being told this?

2171
03:04:26,940 --> 03:04:29,240
That is what's going on.

2172
03:04:29,600 --> 03:04:31,020
Because we ask for more information.

2173
03:04:32,580 --> 03:04:36,560
Now I'm asking for context for the information that we're getting.

2174
03:04:37,000 --> 03:04:38,400
What would be the context?

2175
03:04:39,940 --> 03:04:42,520
I mean, like, it comes as a versus last year.

2176
03:04:42,720 --> 03:04:45,460
That's way behind the number of houses or whatever.

2177
03:04:46,260 --> 03:04:46,360
Whatever.

2178
03:04:46,620 --> 03:04:53,440
I'm waiting to hear the context being fellow men on the island has really slowed.

2179
03:04:53,440 --> 03:04:57,520
Well, so you were looking for, if you can have a comparison to the last year.

2180
03:04:58,320 --> 03:05:08,620
If you notice that the directly behind that, there is a comprehensive list of building permits issued a look back over.

2181
03:05:09,380 --> 03:05:11,000
Traditions, new residents.

2182
03:05:11,220 --> 03:05:19,620
And then it goes on to be broken down as separates what were demolition, what were additions, what were new residential, what were alterations.

2183
03:05:19,620 --> 03:05:27,840
So, it really does boil it down, but that's not to say that that's has to do with the

2184
03:05:27,840 --> 03:05:30,060
actual revenue collected.

2185
03:05:30,280 --> 03:05:32,340
We can look at adding context to that.

2186
03:05:34,220 --> 03:05:37,560
So, are you talking about the development review board activity?

2187
03:05:37,660 --> 03:05:39,640
No, the permits, the permits issue.

2188
03:05:41,260 --> 03:05:48,300
And by the way, page

2189
03:05:50,410 --> 03:05:55,830
three of those charts, we've got a

2190
03:05:56,610 --> 03:06:00,670
scrivener's error, it says new residents and I looked at it and I thought, well, how do

2191
03:06:00,670 --> 03:06:06,390
we know if they're new residents or not? It's residents, not residents.

2192
03:06:06,390 --> 03:06:09,310
It's a good point, thank you for winning that challenge.

2193
03:06:12,390 --> 03:06:14,230
So, it's not a person.

2194
03:06:14,310 --> 03:06:15,550
What does that mean?

2195
03:06:16,410 --> 03:06:18,770
It's not a person, it's a strong person.

2196
03:06:22,290 --> 03:06:30,650
I like the idea of somebody telling me, listen, the size of the house is this year versus last year has going down.

2197
03:06:30,930 --> 03:06:31,850
It's going up.

2198
03:06:32,130 --> 03:06:35,490
People that want sellers or whatever they want to call it.

2199
03:06:35,490 --> 03:06:38,930
Things like that, over the view of what's happening.

2200
03:06:39,470 --> 03:06:43,290
Trans, and then the code enforcement, the numbers of code enforcement,

2201
03:06:43,610 --> 03:06:47,110
activities, I don't need to know it was on 13, whatever.

2202
03:06:48,250 --> 03:06:52,630
Code enforcement is not going to be as many as ones were.

2203
03:06:52,750 --> 03:06:53,510
I'm sorry.

2204
03:06:54,130 --> 03:06:55,850
Our code enforcement is difficult.

2205
03:06:58,120 --> 03:07:01,580
A lot of things that call for it, and we don't have enough.

2206
03:07:02,320 --> 03:07:03,560
Times for police.

2207
03:07:03,560 --> 03:07:04,260
You know what we're talking?

2208
03:07:04,260 --> 03:07:09,060
there. Yes. Yep. We got it.

2209
03:07:11,650 --> 03:07:16,770
The development review board activity, I shouldn't take up our

2210
03:07:16,770 --> 03:07:21,570
time, but this may be I should just make my suggestions to the town manager, but that's an

2211
03:07:21,570 --> 03:07:28,330
ambiguous layout as well. That, anything further.

2212
03:07:30,660 --> 03:07:34,560
Regarding the building, Department report.

2213
03:07:40,230 --> 03:07:43,810
All right. We are ready for public works.

2214
03:07:50,600 --> 03:07:51,340
Your next.

2215
03:07:55,750 --> 03:08:00,870
Good afternoon. Very brief, public works. The Department report only related to the

2216
03:08:00,870 --> 03:08:09,590
Leathley-Elloing Study, which is ongoing still. We continue to set sticky traps out on the island to look for the insect vector that carries the disease.

2217
03:08:09,590 --> 03:08:19,990
So far, all of our collections to date have only found one location on the island, which is represented in the graphic zone North Beach Road, up on the backside of the Bonnir.

2218
03:08:20,090 --> 03:08:21,710
This is our subdivision.

2219
03:08:22,370 --> 03:08:29,430
We continue to monitor that location, but we have not found any vectors that have tested positive for the disease either.

2220
03:08:30,350 --> 03:08:39,470
So during the October meeting, we would anticipate kind of doing a wrap-up of this study, perhaps inviting Dr. Bader and Brian Fisher to come in and give a little thoughts on that.

2221
03:08:39,590 --> 03:08:45,270
The footnote here is that, you know, the town is discontinued the program, so one of the things

2222
03:08:45,270 --> 03:08:49,430
that we're recommending is get that out publicly to the residents that where they are aware

2223
03:08:49,430 --> 03:08:53,810
of that discontinuation of the treatment if they're so choose to continue it, it can be done

2224
03:08:53,810 --> 03:08:55,170
on a private scale as well.

2225
03:08:55,870 --> 03:08:55,990
So.

2226
03:08:55,990 --> 03:09:00,530
Are you able to look at the palm trees on the Jupiter island club golf course?

2227
03:09:01,690 --> 03:09:06,910
I would have to ask if those, you're requesting that we go sample there.

2228
03:09:06,910 --> 03:09:12,870
I just wondered whether you have, in that vicinity, yes, now, whether it's on the God of this time.

2229
03:09:12,890 --> 03:09:13,710
Thank you.

2230
03:09:13,990 --> 03:09:16,570
Okay, now we'll go do public safety.

2231
03:09:19,340 --> 03:09:19,980
Good afternoon.

2232
03:09:22,320 --> 03:09:34,500
The first item on the agenda for me is related to the recent media and social media activities related to the license plate readers.

2233
03:09:34,500 --> 03:09:37,080
I don't know if you're familiar with the controversy.

2234
03:09:37,980 --> 03:09:44,180
personally, I think this is the single most negative impact to public safety that's come

2235
03:09:44,180 --> 03:09:54,360
along in my career. The ramifications of what's going on right now and I think the fact

2236
03:09:54,360 --> 03:10:00,260
that the state is jumping the gun and not taking a clear look at this before taking action

2237
03:10:00,260 --> 03:10:07,060
is going to have a serious impact. But for clarification sake, I just wanted to let you know

2238
03:10:07,060 --> 03:10:13,180
that the systems that we employ on this island are not the flock camera systems that the

2239
03:10:13,180 --> 03:10:20,240
state is concerned about, flock unfortunately is the target of this activity, but there

2240
03:10:20,240 --> 03:10:28,840
are multiple platforms that perform the same functions that flock does, and the controversy

2241
03:10:28,840 --> 03:10:35,060
associated with this is related to the accessibility of the data that's collected by these

2242
03:10:35,060 --> 03:10:42,240
places, plate raiders. It captures tags. These cameras are deployed all over the country.

2243
03:10:42,780 --> 03:10:48,360
Flock happens to maintain ownership of the data that they collect. They're in the lives

2244
03:10:48,360 --> 03:10:54,480
part of the problem. Most of the other platforms that are available, the departments maintain

2245
03:10:54,480 --> 03:10:59,780
custody of the data. It's not available unless you have an agreement with another agency

2246
03:10:59,780 --> 03:11:02,460
that gives them access to the data.

2247
03:11:03,360 --> 03:11:05,240
To take that one step further for us,

2248
03:11:05,400 --> 03:11:07,980
the camera system that we employ Genetech,

2249
03:11:08,340 --> 03:11:09,880
we own all of the data.

2250
03:11:10,040 --> 03:11:12,060
Nobody else has access to the data

2251
03:11:12,060 --> 03:11:14,840
that we collect on our license plate readers.

2252
03:11:15,700 --> 03:11:21,060
Nobody can log in and search for a tag on our system.

2253
03:11:22,580 --> 03:11:24,860
So the memo that came out from Florida Department

2254
03:11:24,860 --> 03:11:27,640
of Transportation related to the removal of cameras

2255
03:11:27,640 --> 03:11:30,240
on state roads does not apply to us.

2256
03:11:30,780 --> 03:11:33,400
We do not have any state roads out here on the island.

2257
03:11:34,180 --> 03:11:37,960
FDOT has indicated that they identify

2258
03:11:37,960 --> 03:11:41,780
southeast road as a county road so that requirement

2259
03:11:41,780 --> 03:11:42,760
does not apply.

2260
03:11:43,380 --> 03:11:45,980
My intent is to leave our cameras in place.

2261
03:11:46,520 --> 03:11:49,000
I will say that we have a redundant system.

2262
03:11:49,220 --> 03:11:51,840
We also have vigilant cameras on the island.

2263
03:11:52,180 --> 03:11:54,720
Those vigilant cameras haven't function properly

2264
03:11:54,720 --> 03:11:56,860
and probably over a year.

2265
03:11:56,860 --> 03:12:06,060
We've maintained the account with vigilant to give us access to historical data and search criteria in other areas of the state.

2266
03:12:06,360 --> 03:12:11,060
But I've since implemented a request to have those cameras removed.

2267
03:12:11,280 --> 03:12:16,340
We're going to cancel our account with vigilant just in anticipation of what legislation is coming.

2268
03:12:16,780 --> 03:12:19,900
I'm perfectly confident in the agenda tech cameras that we have.

2269
03:12:20,460 --> 03:12:25,180
They provide the security and safety that we need out here on this island.

2270
03:12:25,180 --> 03:12:32,320
And we're going to continue to use them until the legislation changes and force to remove those cameras.

2271
03:12:33,720 --> 03:12:39,960
Just for historical purposes, I will say, I had mentioned before, my first official act is the chief on the island.

2272
03:12:40,120 --> 03:12:42,960
We had a $200,000-dollar Bentley stolen off of this island.

2273
03:12:43,280 --> 03:12:49,620
We would not have recovered that card, $48 had it not been for these platforms that we access.

2274
03:12:50,180 --> 03:12:55,940
murders have been solved, major crimes have been solved, the home invasion robbery that we had

2275
03:12:55,940 --> 03:13:01,720
out here, even though they were prior to a lot of this information, that crime would not

2276
03:13:01,720 --> 03:13:02,300
have been solved.

2277
03:13:02,320 --> 03:13:07,900
That guy would not have been apprehended at it, not been for licensed plate readers throughout

2278
03:13:07,900 --> 03:13:08,680
the state of Florida.

2279
03:13:09,160 --> 03:13:10,200
So, it's a huge impact.

2280
03:13:10,440 --> 03:13:15,720
I know all of the professional associations are looking at this or keeping an eye on it.

2281
03:13:15,720 --> 03:13:20,600
had a conversation with Mr. Prue when we were discussion upcoming legislation, I've asked

2282
03:13:20,600 --> 03:13:25,280
him to keep an eye on anything that comes from the legislation related to licensed plate

2283
03:13:25,280 --> 03:13:25,600
readers.

2284
03:13:26,260 --> 03:13:31,100
I know that Sheriff's Association of Chiefs Association or hosting a summit to discuss

2285
03:13:31,100 --> 03:13:37,260
this specific issue right now, and they're going to propose reasonable legislation.

2286
03:13:37,940 --> 03:13:38,820
I agree.

2287
03:13:39,060 --> 03:13:41,060
I think there needs to be guardrails and boundaries.

2288
03:13:41,060 --> 03:13:47,180
We have other platforms that offer us privacy information that come with built-in guardrails.

2289
03:13:47,640 --> 03:13:52,700
There's no reason why the state can't apply those same guardrails to this data and this technology.

2290
03:13:53,060 --> 03:13:55,980
And I think that's hopefully what we'll see come out of this session.

2291
03:13:56,500 --> 03:13:59,240
Can our drones take pictures of license plates?

2292
03:14:01,940 --> 03:14:07,100
Can they, yes, do they, they do not have license plate reader, you know,

2293
03:14:07,100 --> 03:14:13,900
You know, software built into them, but every camera that we have in every car that we

2294
03:14:13,900 --> 03:14:17,800
patrol with has like that camera has licensed plate reader capabilities.

2295
03:14:18,560 --> 03:14:21,360
The state is not concerned about those for some reason.

2296
03:14:22,100 --> 03:14:26,900
This has been a pet project of the governor's for some reason he's last on to this and is

2297
03:14:26,900 --> 03:14:32,620
buying into the hype from social media, which, you know, personally, I disagree with.

2298
03:14:32,620 --> 03:14:43,160
And I know the associations feel the same way I do, there needs to be guardrails or need to be boundaries related to our access to this information.

2299
03:14:44,120 --> 03:14:47,080
We have a policy in place for our license plate readers.

2300
03:14:48,960 --> 03:14:51,500
It creates those guardrails in place.

2301
03:14:52,280 --> 03:14:58,620
The officers cannot do historical searches for tags on this system without prior approval.

2302
03:14:58,620 --> 03:14:59,600
Supervisors.

2303
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:09,400
Approval, we built those guardrails into our policy already, and I'm taking steps to strengthen that policy to make it even better, as well.

2304
03:15:10,420 --> 03:15:20,040
I had a request from a resident about our regulations regarding private use of drones.

2305
03:15:20,740 --> 03:15:30,100
It's my impression that we prohibit it, but is it, do we, can we permit it on a limited basis?

2306
03:15:31,140 --> 03:15:35,260
I'm not, I think there is a permit process already in place.

2307
03:15:35,280 --> 03:15:43,140
I know we get, we get requests from realtors specific to doing drone flights over properties that they're going to do listings on.

2308
03:15:43,140 --> 03:15:50,840
I'm not for public use, but for specific properties, but I can look a little harder at that

2309
03:15:50,840 --> 03:15:51,640
ordinance.

2310
03:15:52,300 --> 03:15:53,940
I haven't looked at it in a while.

2311
03:15:54,960 --> 03:15:57,020
I thought you were going to use a drill as for him.

2312
03:15:57,120 --> 03:16:03,040
By the loss with everybody's talk, a couple of used a drone to try to find a lost dog last

2313
03:16:03,040 --> 03:16:03,520
season.

2314
03:16:04,080 --> 03:16:04,970
They just did it.

2315
03:16:05,560 --> 03:16:06,820
I think we're talking about it.

2316
03:16:06,820 --> 03:16:11,760
If I went out and bought a drone myself, and I flew it over to the neighbor's house.

2317
03:16:13,580 --> 03:16:16,160
That would be private in one end.

2318
03:16:16,640 --> 03:16:17,980
It could be, yes, sir.

2319
03:16:19,280 --> 03:16:22,320
It's a matter of what you're recording and what you're viewing.

2320
03:16:22,900 --> 03:16:25,920
The simple act of flying it over may not be about violation,

2321
03:16:26,100 --> 03:16:30,020
but if you're capturing images, then it potentially could be.

2322
03:16:30,340 --> 03:16:32,520
But again, and we have...

2323
03:16:32,520 --> 03:16:34,220
I'm sorry, but I haven't looked at our ordinance in a long time.

2324
03:16:34,220 --> 03:16:40,160
No, but it may be time to get a handle on that.

2325
03:16:40,160 --> 03:16:42,380
because of the public beach in the waterway.

2326
03:16:43,320 --> 03:16:45,300
And as far as I know, we don't have an ordinance

2327
03:16:45,300 --> 03:16:46,980
for stricting the use of drones.

2328
03:16:47,440 --> 03:16:50,720
Public safety does, but private use,

2329
03:16:51,100 --> 03:16:54,720
I don't believe we have any code that restricts it

2330
03:16:54,720 --> 03:16:57,000
other than the FAA rules and regulations.

2331
03:16:57,300 --> 03:17:00,140
So that's something that we could certainly look at.

2332
03:17:00,640 --> 03:17:03,400
Yes, we need to adopt a permitting type ordinance.

2333
03:17:04,180 --> 03:17:06,660
There is current technology available

2334
03:17:06,660 --> 03:17:09,100
for monitoring for drone activity.

2335
03:17:09,100 --> 03:17:13,020
I know the Sheriff's Office is implementing some equipment.

2336
03:17:13,040 --> 03:17:15,300
They've made that available to us.

2337
03:17:15,500 --> 03:17:17,500
If we want to put one out here on the island,

2338
03:17:17,900 --> 03:17:20,300
it would identify any drones that we're flying in the area

2339
03:17:20,300 --> 03:17:22,060
and give us access to that information.

2340
03:17:22,720 --> 03:17:24,340
So that's something that we're looking at.

2341
03:17:24,500 --> 03:17:26,160
But I will certainly look at the ordinance

2342
03:17:26,160 --> 03:17:28,120
and the statute's related to that

2343
03:17:28,120 --> 03:17:30,440
and see if we can strengthen that a little better.

2344
03:17:30,820 --> 03:17:34,580
The other interesting note here is that

2345
03:17:34,580 --> 03:17:41,300
lock was sharing its data with ICE, which is exactly what lit the police, politically,

2346
03:17:42,320 --> 03:17:46,440
media, that's really what started this whole concept.

2347
03:17:50,080 --> 03:17:56,300
Yeah, the way these cameras work, it obviously captures the image when the car passes in front

2348
03:17:56,300 --> 03:17:57,040
of the camera.

2349
03:17:58,520 --> 03:18:01,300
We maintain a database in that system.

2350
03:18:01,300 --> 03:18:06,720
And that information is provided to us from the Florida Department of Law Enforcement and it

2351
03:18:06,720 --> 03:18:13,260
identifies any tags that are suspended, any associated driver's license that are suspended,

2352
03:18:13,760 --> 03:18:20,200
any warrants that the state has that they have a tag related to that particular person.

2353
03:18:20,620 --> 03:18:22,780
Those will show up, we call it a hot list.

2354
03:18:23,100 --> 03:18:28,100
That hot list is updated every hour for our Florida criminal information system.

2355
03:18:28,100 --> 03:18:31,680
It's updated every three hours for the national criminal information system.

2356
03:18:32,280 --> 03:18:36,160
So, if we get a potential wanted murder or the drives onto this island,

2357
03:18:36,820 --> 03:18:41,560
this associated with that tag, it will immediately pop up on every control car that has that software running.

2358
03:18:41,840 --> 03:18:46,580
We require them to run that software on their computers, whatever they're on duty.

2359
03:18:47,380 --> 03:18:49,440
So, they're constantly getting these alerts.

2360
03:18:50,360 --> 03:18:55,720
We have a luxury in the patients to look at suspended tags, suspended licenses.

2361
03:18:55,720 --> 03:18:58,060
is, you know, most of the county agencies,

2362
03:18:58,480 --> 03:19:01,120
they don't have the time to be chasing all of those.

2363
03:19:01,400 --> 03:19:03,740
They're looking for stolen cars, stolen tags,

2364
03:19:05,160 --> 03:19:08,700
wanted persons, missing persons related to tags.

2365
03:19:09,580 --> 03:19:13,000
But that's the basis for how we maintain safety out here

2366
03:19:13,000 --> 03:19:15,660
on this island, as we monitor every car that comes out here.

2367
03:19:15,920 --> 03:19:18,400
And if it's in that hot list, it's in that hot list

2368
03:19:18,400 --> 03:19:20,520
because the state put that information in

2369
03:19:20,520 --> 03:19:22,560
and they provided that information to us.

2370
03:19:23,200 --> 03:19:25,400
That's the basis for that whole function

2371
03:19:26,280 --> 03:19:29,680
And to take that away from us, I think it's going to be a huge impact.

2372
03:19:32,500 --> 03:19:36,780
You recommend ring doorbells with cameras to the island residents or not.

2373
03:19:36,980 --> 03:19:44,120
I do absolutely anything that assist you with security and can capture images for your personal safety.

2374
03:19:44,280 --> 03:19:46,720
I think is that help them to kind of think, didn't it?

2375
03:19:46,860 --> 03:19:48,500
I have them on my house, for sure.

2376
03:19:49,580 --> 03:19:53,160
And it helps you keep track of who's coming and going from your house when you're not there.

2377
03:19:53,160 --> 03:19:58,540
So, if there's no other questions related to LPRs, I'll move on to my activity report.

2378
03:20:00,120 --> 03:20:05,320
So I've got both July and August that I provided to you.

2379
03:20:05,480 --> 03:20:11,420
We'll stick with August, 135 calls for service, 38 calls for service in July.

2380
03:20:12,960 --> 03:20:19,540
The one significant crime that we had on the island in August was a grand theft.

2381
03:20:19,540 --> 03:20:23,680
It was from a construction site, it was reported by the contractor.

2382
03:20:23,800 --> 03:20:29,780
He noticed that there were bulk amounts of electrical wire, rolls of electrical wire that

2383
03:20:29,780 --> 03:20:31,920
were missing from the construction site.

2384
03:20:32,720 --> 03:20:38,120
We identified one of the workers, one of the laborers that was working on that construction site.

2385
03:20:39,180 --> 03:20:42,940
We've basically identified that person.

2386
03:20:43,360 --> 03:20:48,200
We've located the material that he was stealing, he was selling to the scrapyards.

2387
03:20:48,200 --> 03:21:03,660
We've got images of him, his fingerprint, so we secure three felony warrants for that individual and we'll be picking him up as soon as those warrants are signed, but that was a good job done by Officer Potsko on that crime.

2388
03:21:03,660 --> 03:21:17,830
That was the only significant crime that we've had. The activity at the beach was relatively consistent for the last two months.

2389
03:21:20,290 --> 03:21:25,350
We had four calls for service in August, eight calls for service in July.

2390
03:21:26,430 --> 03:21:31,810
During the day, we didn't have any at night in August and only two during the day.

2391
03:21:32,390 --> 03:21:32,930
Code enforcement.

2392
03:21:33,590 --> 03:21:39,710
We had 40 violations for parking in the right away and 22 for no flag persons.

2393
03:21:40,510 --> 03:21:46,830
And then one other violation for total of 63 for the month of August, 62 for the month of July.

2394
03:21:46,830 --> 03:21:51,530
And we do provide that information to the building department so that they can keep track

2395
03:21:51,530 --> 03:21:54,250
when they're related to a construction site.

2396
03:21:55,410 --> 03:21:58,610
In 1681 officer patrols for the month of August.

2397
03:21:59,230 --> 03:22:04,310
Our drone flights were down in August, compared to July in the previous months.

2398
03:22:04,890 --> 03:22:12,250
Our officers were in training and on vacation so we had limited drone activity for the month

2399
03:22:12,250 --> 03:22:12,810
of August.

2400
03:22:13,530 --> 03:22:14,570
And that's my report.

2401
03:22:17,290 --> 03:22:28,290
If you would like to see more or less information on that report, I'm happy to adjust it to...

2402
03:22:28,290 --> 03:22:29,970
No, it gives us a good picture of what's thinking.

2403
03:22:30,000 --> 03:22:38,540
Comploys. I've added the, as you requested, Commissioner, the alarms, give you an idea of the response to those.

2404
03:22:39,320 --> 03:22:42,720
Very good. Public Beach sure is active.

2405
03:22:44,200 --> 03:22:46,040
It, summertime, it usually is.

2406
03:22:48,520 --> 03:22:50,580
I don't know other questions, that's my report.

2407
03:22:51,180 --> 03:22:56,180
All right, meeting dates. Do we have to do meeting dates today?

2408
03:22:56,600 --> 03:22:57,420
There we have it.

2409
03:22:57,420 --> 03:23:04,680
can I make a comment about the date? December. Yes. So historically the town on

2410
03:23:04,680 --> 03:23:11,750
at the December Commission meeting ends the meeting relatively early 1130 or so and

2411
03:23:12,980 --> 03:23:20,140
we have the annual employee and volunteer luncheon at the club. So the date that they've given us

2412
03:23:20,140 --> 03:23:25,020
is December 17th for that buffet at the club if that works for the commissioners.

2413
03:23:26,120 --> 03:23:33,840
And we're 17th, yes sir, and that would be the commission meeting followed by the launch

2414
03:23:33,840 --> 03:23:37,220
at the club that typically at noon time.

2415
03:23:51,820 --> 03:23:52,220
Okay.

2416
03:23:53,460 --> 03:23:53,820
And that worked.

2417
03:23:53,960 --> 03:23:56,840
Nothing else on either side of December 17th meeting.

2418
03:24:01,350 --> 03:24:06,170
We usually keep the agenda pretty light because it's a short meeting.

2419
03:24:06,170 --> 03:24:09,130
I'm to the Jupiter, I'm going to go.

2420
03:24:10,810 --> 03:24:13,930
All right, December 17, it is.

2421
03:24:14,530 --> 03:24:18,230
And would you reach SMRU?

2422
03:24:18,310 --> 03:24:18,670
No.

2423
03:24:19,150 --> 03:24:20,930
No, an SMRU will be in November.

2424
03:24:21,070 --> 03:24:21,950
Keeping it light.

2425
03:24:22,230 --> 03:24:22,990
We're keeping it light.

2426
03:24:23,270 --> 03:24:23,750
We're going to turn.

2427
03:24:25,030 --> 03:24:30,990
You may have the Jupiter island club on that day application.

2428
03:24:32,630 --> 03:24:34,710
On the, at the December Commission meeting,

2429
03:24:35,430 --> 03:24:42,090
They hope to bring their application in December to the commission with the golf course.

2430
03:24:42,290 --> 03:24:49,490
I just got an email inviting me to see some virtual view of what they're planning on doing.

2431
03:24:50,550 --> 03:24:54,010
I purposely have not answered any of those questions.

2432
03:24:56,740 --> 03:24:57,320
I understand.

2433
03:24:58,260 --> 03:25:01,840
I said, I trust you to keep me updated and I'm what's going on.

2434
03:25:01,840 --> 03:25:07,920
They're attempting to have another round of individual meetings with commissioners in their architect.

2435
03:25:08,560 --> 03:25:14,520
I talked to Kyle about that since it'll potentially be coming to you in a quasi-judicial venue.

2436
03:25:15,340 --> 03:25:17,780
Is that wise or a good idea?

2437
03:25:19,560 --> 03:25:21,000
And I mean, you could speak to this, Kyle.

2438
03:25:21,020 --> 03:25:24,440
But essentially, it's a required expertise disclosure, right?

2439
03:25:24,760 --> 03:25:29,940
That's right. You're loving to me with any applicants that you want to meet with.

2440
03:25:29,940 --> 03:25:32,080
You don't have to, but it's your prerogative.

2441
03:25:32,660 --> 03:25:37,480
If you do, of course, you're meeting with them individually.

2442
03:25:39,380 --> 03:25:45,060
And you know, there's no, you have to ensure that you keep a list

2443
03:25:45,060 --> 03:25:47,560
of who attended and what you discussed.

2444
03:25:49,400 --> 03:25:52,160
So when the application, if and when it does come

2445
03:25:52,160 --> 03:25:55,180
before the commission for quasi-judicial hearing,

2446
03:25:55,420 --> 03:25:57,640
you can give a full recitation of your expertise.

2447
03:25:57,640 --> 03:26:02,360
If I met with him and this is exactly what we talked about, there you go, I don't have time to do that.

2448
03:26:06,010 --> 03:26:13,890
I've been asked to meet with the president of the Jupiter Island Club to talk about the golf course for the second time.

2449
03:26:13,890 --> 03:26:19,490
And I reported to you that I did meet with him once, but he wants to come back at it again.

2450
03:26:20,390 --> 03:26:25,710
And I just, I don't want to say no, but I don't want to say yes.

2451
03:26:25,870 --> 03:26:28,210
Well, you can do it, but you have to let us know.

2452
03:26:28,950 --> 03:26:31,390
Well, I understand that because I did tell him about the other one.

2453
03:26:31,390 --> 03:26:42,670
But they're also, they're doing town hall meetings virtually next week for, I think, there are three or four separate ones for different,

2454
03:26:42,910 --> 03:26:51,630
for members, members who are close to the club, members who are not close to the club, and non-member residents.

2455
03:26:52,170 --> 03:26:57,930
So they're not serious advice about that because I'm supposed to go to the one on the 22nd for Riverview Road.

2456
03:26:57,930 --> 03:27:03,610
And these are meetings for all the people that are live around the edge of the, and I've been asked to

2457
03:27:03,610 --> 03:27:12,770
speak on the phone before that 22nd meeting. That's what, so those workshops, any time an applicant has a substantial

2458
03:27:12,770 --> 03:27:19,330
application they want to bring, it's common to try to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, you know, public

2459
03:27:19,330 --> 03:27:25,350
support or neighbors support, um, nothing wrong with that. If, if you, if you do attend any of these meetings,

2460
03:27:25,930 --> 03:27:29,330
feel free to give me a call and if you want me to attend,

2461
03:27:29,470 --> 03:27:31,810
we have to attend either in person or virtually,

2462
03:27:32,750 --> 03:27:34,450
especially if they're having council present.

2463
03:27:34,970 --> 03:27:37,890
That's always something that I'm happy to do.

2464
03:27:39,610 --> 03:27:42,310
But it's just part of their lobbying efforts.

2465
03:27:43,310 --> 03:27:46,310
But attending is just something we have to disclose.

2466
03:27:47,030 --> 03:27:48,210
That's right.

2467
03:27:50,520 --> 03:27:56,440
And the easy solution to it is to just forward whatever you get

2468
03:27:56,440 --> 03:28:00,840
to your town, you may have, and then records very easy or too,

2469
03:28:03,520 --> 03:28:03,520
too.

2470
03:28:03,740 --> 03:28:03,920
Right.

2471
03:28:03,980 --> 03:28:07,540
So if they're not going to your town, you may, you can do that.

2472
03:28:07,540 --> 03:28:12,400
That way you have a record of when the meeting occurred, and who was there, and who invited you.

2473
03:28:14,450 --> 03:28:21,750
And in that regard, I think we each got this invitation to the Martin County Fair ground-breaking ceremony.

2474
03:28:23,210 --> 03:28:24,330
He thought you would take.

2475
03:28:24,330 --> 03:28:27,670
And I didn't, I don't know if anyone is planning to go.

2476
03:28:27,970 --> 03:28:31,330
I wouldn't dream of going to this.

2477
03:28:32,450 --> 03:28:43,230
I bet in top of mind, I bet at the town level before that the Martin County Fair Association

2478
03:28:43,230 --> 03:28:47,730
is not all you might assume it to be.

2479
03:28:51,540 --> 03:29:00,660
rents county property for a peppercorn and doesn't have to report to anyone, I don't want anything

2480
03:29:00,660 --> 03:29:01,620
to do with it.

2481
03:29:01,880 --> 03:29:05,840
All right, anything further, any other commissioner comments,

2482
03:29:08,970 --> 03:29:10,830
and we've settled on the December

2483
03:29:10,830 --> 03:29:11,770
date,

2484
03:29:14,530 --> 03:29:15,990
October we can pick January?

2485
03:29:17,870 --> 03:29:18,690
How if you'd like?

2486
03:29:20,970 --> 03:29:21,630
What's your pleasure?

2487
03:29:21,770 --> 03:29:25,730
You want to pick a January date or hold that till October?

2488
03:29:26,130 --> 03:29:26,870
Hold it till October.

2489
03:29:26,870 --> 03:29:29,270
All right, we'll hold till October.

2490
03:29:29,990 --> 03:29:32,090
You're pretty far out there, I'm getting old.

2491
03:29:32,810 --> 03:29:35,550
I don't want to commit the tune.

2492
03:29:35,550 --> 03:29:36,650
You're not a green banana.

2493
03:29:38,570 --> 03:29:45,730
All right, I think that concludes the Commission meeting for September 14.

2494
03:29:46,790 --> 03:29:52,750
And we will now open the South Martin regionals utility meeting.

2495
03:29:56,100 --> 03:29:58,560
All right, well, I'll take a few minutes.

2496
03:29:58,560 --> 03:29:58,840
Thank you.