1 00:00:00,350 --> 00:00:02,720 Four items on the agenda. 2 00:00:02,950 --> 00:00:05,630 There's five, but #5 doesn't really count. 3 00:00:06,350 --> 00:00:08,760 And two of them pertain to the same thing. 4 00:00:09,030 --> 00:00:11,470 So with that. 5 00:00:11,590 --> 00:00:13,190 We will roll right into the. 6 00:00:13,740 --> 00:00:16,880 First item which is the woods lot. 7 00:00:16,990 --> 00:00:18,790 Three PUD amendment. 8 00:00:19,950 --> 00:00:20,430 OK. 9 00:00:21,790 --> 00:00:23,950 And then so you're aware I'm. 10 00:00:24,070 --> 00:00:28,350 Managing the Woods Lot 3 and then John will take on items 2-3 and four. 11 00:00:29,710 --> 00:00:36,990 So Woods lot 3, we've seen this PUD before related to a different lot. I believe that was a lot. 12 00:00:39,090 --> 00:00:41,760 2 So this is lot 3. 13 00:00:41,990 --> 00:00:46,710 And in in your packet there was an exhibit that showed. 14 00:00:48,030 --> 00:00:50,630 Kind of how they're shifting the building area. 15 00:00:50,910 --> 00:00:51,830 It went. 16 00:00:52,710 --> 00:00:54,030 On the Northside. 17 00:00:54,190 --> 00:00:58,790 And they're taking an equivalent area from the Northside that's all landscaped currently. 18 00:00:59,030 --> 00:01:06,640 Bringing the building area up to where the house is currently. So the house is still in the in the existing building area. 19 00:01:06,790 --> 00:01:08,990 And then they're shifting that. 20 00:01:09,150 --> 00:01:09,910 What was? 21 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:11,470 Over there as. 22 00:01:11,950 --> 00:01:15,560 Available building area to the South side. 23 00:01:16,390 --> 00:01:21,390 Which is kind of by their driveway and has a little bit more. 24 00:01:22,150 --> 00:01:23,510 Landscaped area in it. 25 00:01:24,150 --> 00:01:26,510 I'll pull it up so that we can take a look at that. 26 00:01:27,370 --> 00:01:30,520 So is this the one that's right out that buffers up onto the? 27 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:35,190 6200 or is this a different no, This one is further back. 28 00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:36,750 So you can see in the. 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:39,440 Planned unit development. 30 00:01:39,630 --> 00:01:41,910 This was the one that we looked at before. 31 00:01:42,350 --> 00:01:44,910 Here's plot #2. 32 00:01:45,110 --> 00:01:46,720 This is lot #3. 33 00:01:48,620 --> 00:01:49,400 So we did. 34 00:01:49,910 --> 00:01:51,110 One before. 35 00:01:51,790 --> 00:01:53,870 OK, so have we seen 3? 36 00:01:53,990 --> 00:01:56,230 In this mission. 37 00:01:56,670 --> 00:02:00,590 We saw Lot 1 and that's where they wanted to build the big garage and. 38 00:02:01,830 --> 00:02:04,150 So in this one, just to make sure I understand. 39 00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:06,110 The summary of it they are. 40 00:02:07,110 --> 00:02:10,030 Wanting to just move the accessory dwelling unit. 41 00:02:10,390 --> 00:02:11,430 Buildable lot. 42 00:02:12,190 --> 00:02:14,880 Plot to the other side of the house. 43 00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:15,590 Yes. 44 00:02:15,710 --> 00:02:18,270 So you can see that the. 45 00:02:18,350 --> 00:02:18,910 I don't. 46 00:02:19,150 --> 00:02:19,950 Do you all have? 47 00:02:20,070 --> 00:02:21,630 Screens up there, yes, Yes. 48 00:02:22,190 --> 00:02:25,030 Yeah. So you've got the building area that was here before. 49 00:02:25,350 --> 00:02:27,030 Here's this structure. 50 00:02:27,110 --> 00:02:28,790 And where it kind of has this? 51 00:02:29,350 --> 00:02:30,630 Unique edge around it. 52 00:02:30,830 --> 00:02:34,270 But the building area was. Is this dotted line that goes around? 53 00:02:35,920 --> 00:02:36,800 Out here. 54 00:02:38,660 --> 00:02:41,000 And then the new modification. 55 00:02:41,150 --> 00:02:42,600 Is taking. 56 00:02:42,790 --> 00:02:45,990 22,192 square feet. 57 00:02:46,350 --> 00:02:48,870 That was within the allowed building area. 58 00:02:48,950 --> 00:02:49,990 Previously, umm. 59 00:02:51,100 --> 00:02:53,280 And shifting it down to this side. 60 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:57,960 So this becomes the new buildable area. 61 00:02:58,860 --> 00:03:02,340 And does that comply with all the setbacks and? 62 00:03:04,110 --> 00:03:07,000 Everything, yes, So they're maintaining the same. 63 00:03:07,230 --> 00:03:08,310 Rear set back. 64 00:03:08,630 --> 00:03:10,910 It is moving closer to. 65 00:03:11,070 --> 00:03:11,990 Lot 4. 66 00:03:14,310 --> 00:03:16,990 But there wasn't a set back in that. 67 00:03:17,070 --> 00:03:19,070 In that PUD besides what the? 68 00:03:19,190 --> 00:03:20,920 Previous building area was. 69 00:03:21,510 --> 00:03:21,630 Umm. 70 00:03:25,110 --> 00:03:30,470 And as far as the PUD itself, we aren't giving any consideration to anything. 71 00:03:30,830 --> 00:03:34,310 That they have internally. This is just. Can they move it from? 72 00:03:35,070 --> 00:03:36,390 One side to the other. 73 00:03:36,950 --> 00:03:39,000 From the city standpoint, right? 74 00:03:39,630 --> 00:03:41,710 On this side there was 40 feet. 75 00:03:41,790 --> 00:03:44,310 So it will increase the set back on this side. 76 00:03:44,710 --> 00:03:51,470 And then decide that they're moving it to. It doesn't look like they have their distance labeled, but you can ask the applicant. 77 00:03:51,670 --> 00:03:53,550 What this distance is from? 78 00:03:53,630 --> 00:03:54,830 The new building area. 79 00:03:55,070 --> 00:03:56,310 To the property line. 80 00:03:58,470 --> 00:04:02,520 And just for my own edification, is there? 81 00:04:03,970 --> 00:04:05,840 Existing structures. 82 00:04:06,740 --> 00:04:07,860 On lots. 83 00:04:08,390 --> 00:04:09,390 2 or 4. 84 00:04:10,750 --> 00:04:16,590 Does that change the dynamic and how close it would be to four versus how close it would be to two? 85 00:04:17,290 --> 00:04:18,650 Yes, so. 86 00:04:19,190 --> 00:04:21,270 And I think this is probably your best view. 87 00:04:21,550 --> 00:04:22,270 On this. 88 00:04:22,750 --> 00:04:26,350 A lot too. It will be further away from the structure on Lot 2. 89 00:04:27,070 --> 00:04:30,430 Lot 4 it will be closer to this structure. 90 00:04:30,590 --> 00:04:34,110 This lot has a slope on this side. 91 00:04:34,910 --> 00:04:36,150 They added this. 92 00:04:36,270 --> 00:04:37,510 Accessory building. 93 00:04:38,030 --> 00:04:40,470 In quite a few years back. 94 00:04:41,150 --> 00:04:45,350 But that's why this house is built closer this way is because of a slope that's there. 95 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,560 So that the new structure will be. 96 00:04:50,950 --> 00:04:52,190 Closer to. 97 00:04:52,310 --> 00:04:52,990 This one, umm. 98 00:04:53,910 --> 00:04:54,030 Umm. 99 00:04:56,630 --> 00:05:00,350 By I don't know if they have. 100 00:05:00,430 --> 00:05:02,040 Their dimension of what they're coming out of. 101 00:05:05,850 --> 00:05:09,045 But they won't reach out of their window and shake hands with the southern neighbor that close or anything, right? No, they'll 102 00:05:09,045 --> 00:05:12,240 still be. 103 00:05:12,950 --> 00:05:13,910 Pretty far. 104 00:05:14,470 --> 00:05:17,870 If I were to estimate age, I would probably say. 105 00:05:20,140 --> 00:05:22,120 30 feet away from. 106 00:05:22,830 --> 00:05:26,310 It's going to be between 30 and 40. This is 10 feet for the. 107 00:05:26,750 --> 00:05:28,520 Public utility easement. 108 00:05:34,690 --> 00:05:36,400 Yeah, probably around 30. 109 00:05:36,710 --> 00:05:37,710 I thought the packet said. 110 00:05:37,870 --> 00:05:39,510 27 feet somewhere, but I don't. 111 00:05:40,990 --> 00:05:42,950 That may be in their narrative. 112 00:05:43,950 --> 00:05:45,990 OK. I don't know if that's the rear side. 113 00:05:52,940 --> 00:05:56,680 And city staff and TRC have looked this over and it checks all the boxes. 114 00:05:58,840 --> 00:05:59,640 Yes. 115 00:05:59,790 --> 00:06:00,110 OK. 116 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:04,240 I have a question just. 117 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,840 Well, we rarely do. We run into. 118 00:06:07,950 --> 00:06:09,910 Properties that are behind gates. 119 00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:16,230 And so I never remember to ask about it, because then we don't see one for a while. But what's? 120 00:06:16,590 --> 00:06:19,630 Best solution when the property we're supposed to? 121 00:06:19,910 --> 00:06:21,470 Drive by and review. 122 00:06:22,030 --> 00:06:23,230 Is behind a locked gate. 123 00:06:27,060 --> 00:06:28,980 Google, I mean, it's hard to trespass. I mean I. 124 00:06:29,550 --> 00:06:32,790 I hiked my leg over the fence. You can always get in touch with the. 125 00:06:32,870 --> 00:06:36,710 Planner and then they can contact the owner for the gate key code. 126 00:06:37,350 --> 00:06:37,710 All right. 127 00:06:39,350 --> 00:06:39,910 Thank you. 128 00:06:44,140 --> 00:06:46,160 Any other questions on item 1? 129 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:49,960 All right, let's. 130 00:06:50,030 --> 00:06:51,470 Turn to John for. 131 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,240 The Casper Cottage that is not located. 132 00:06:57,670 --> 00:06:59,670 At 4910 S Holiday. 133 00:07:03,430 --> 00:07:08,790 So item two and three on your agenda tonight is a continuation of. 134 00:07:09,710 --> 00:07:10,910 Historic Site. 135 00:07:12,380 --> 00:07:13,240 Preservation. 136 00:07:13,630 --> 00:07:15,030 Attempts by property owner. 137 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:16,800 Mr. Ron Hilden. 138 00:07:17,310 --> 00:07:20,790 So the reason why there are two items is the request is twofold. 139 00:07:20,950 --> 00:07:25,950 One, well, primarily you have you made a recommendation to? 140 00:07:26,270 --> 00:07:27,750 Make this site historic. 141 00:07:28,350 --> 00:07:29,390 The City Council. 142 00:07:29,830 --> 00:07:31,870 Approved that recommendation and. 143 00:07:31,990 --> 00:07:36,350 Now is on this sites the City of Holidays historic site designation list. 144 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:38,110 And those properties. 145 00:07:39,590 --> 00:07:41,070 Are afforded a few. 146 00:07:42,150 --> 00:07:46,310 Allowances that not any other properties in the city are allowed to do and. 147 00:07:46,390 --> 00:07:47,270 That's the intent. 148 00:07:47,630 --> 00:07:49,070 Of that is to sustain. 149 00:07:49,870 --> 00:07:56,670 A preservation effort because we don't have funds or anything to apply for or grants to apply for to maintain these properties. 150 00:07:57,470 --> 00:08:00,550 Extra land uses are allowed or afforded the property owner. 151 00:08:01,450 --> 00:08:02,690 So that they can bolster. 152 00:08:02,830 --> 00:08:04,550 That sustainability effort. 153 00:08:06,590 --> 00:08:10,560 In doing so, there might be some modifications to the property as well. 154 00:08:11,710 --> 00:08:15,550 Modifications to the facade, changing the roof, maybe putting an addition on. 155 00:08:15,990 --> 00:08:17,270 Changing the site plan. 156 00:08:18,070 --> 00:08:21,910 That is also an additional conditional approval from the Planning Commission. 157 00:08:22,660 --> 00:08:24,300 So the proposal. 158 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:29,150 That is being brought to the city is 1A site modification. 159 00:08:29,890 --> 00:08:33,120 There's some changes to the facade of the building that's being proposed. 160 00:08:34,150 --> 00:08:34,550 And then? 161 00:08:35,870 --> 00:08:38,790 They are not related to each other, so you can. 162 00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:40,270 Consider each other. 163 00:08:40,790 --> 00:08:42,470 Just consider them separately. 164 00:08:42,790 --> 00:08:44,510 They're not exclusive to each other. 165 00:08:45,590 --> 00:08:46,470 The separate. 166 00:08:47,150 --> 00:08:48,560 Proposal is to add. 167 00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:53,000 Additional land uses to the property. 1 is a antique store. 168 00:08:53,510 --> 00:08:54,870 So a retail use. 169 00:08:55,630 --> 00:08:58,040 And then secondary to that. 170 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:00,550 Is a secondary residential unit. 171 00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:02,070 That's being proposed. 172 00:09:02,270 --> 00:09:03,070 By the applicant. 173 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,880 It would be better to have that conversation on. 174 00:09:07,990 --> 00:09:12,070 What the details of those uses would be with that the applicant? 175 00:09:13,190 --> 00:09:14,990 The TRC has reviewed this. 176 00:09:15,230 --> 00:09:16,230 At face value. 177 00:09:16,910 --> 00:09:20,430 Really part of the general plan in the historic preservation code. 178 00:09:20,590 --> 00:09:22,190 What we are intending to. 179 00:09:22,590 --> 00:09:23,790 Review is. 180 00:09:24,230 --> 00:09:25,790 Maintaining historic property. 181 00:09:25,950 --> 00:09:27,630 In perpetuity. 182 00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:35,350 So how these two uses relate to maintaining the historic use as a pioneer home is the question I think you need to have answered. 183 00:09:35,790 --> 00:09:38,230 And and how those uses bolster? 184 00:09:38,830 --> 00:09:42,630 The historic preservation ordinance and the goals of the city itself. So. 185 00:09:44,050 --> 00:09:47,050 I think there's still a lot of questions that need to be answered so. 186 00:09:47,350 --> 00:09:51,310 Staff's recommendation is to continue the discussions to give the OR the applicant. 187 00:09:52,070 --> 00:09:54,230 Time to answer those questions for you. 188 00:09:57,260 --> 00:09:59,040 OK, so. 189 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:04,120 To make sure. 190 00:10:04,470 --> 00:10:06,030 I understand this correctly. 191 00:10:09,410 --> 00:10:11,200 The underlying is. 192 00:10:13,510 --> 00:10:15,190 For this body to determine. 193 00:10:15,590 --> 00:10:16,750 If the. 194 00:10:17,550 --> 00:10:19,390 Applicant is. 195 00:10:19,670 --> 00:10:23,080 Doing these things to try and preserve that. 196 00:10:23,630 --> 00:10:24,630 Small home. 197 00:10:25,390 --> 00:10:26,590 In perpetuity. 198 00:10:27,030 --> 00:10:32,990 Aside from what's already afforded to it through the PUD and its historical designation. 199 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:37,360 On the city registry, essentially yes. 200 00:10:38,950 --> 00:10:39,150 OK. 201 00:10:43,450 --> 00:10:45,080 Questions on item two or three. 202 00:10:48,350 --> 00:10:52,030 That need to be answered before we get into the discussion with the applicant. 203 00:10:52,670 --> 00:10:53,750 Formulated questions, but. 204 00:10:53,990 --> 00:10:54,950 OK, Yeah. 205 00:10:55,150 --> 00:10:57,910 It's all right. We'll have lots of discussion points, I'm sure. 206 00:10:58,190 --> 00:11:01,150 OK. And I think one both I'll go, sorry. 207 00:11:01,550 --> 00:11:03,110 Well, I'm remembering. 208 00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:08,030 When we saw the PUD come before us, that included this cottage. 209 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,280 That there was. 210 00:11:10,830 --> 00:11:11,990 A great deal of. 211 00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:13,990 Discussion about how. 212 00:11:14,110 --> 00:11:15,790 This was going to be a residence. 213 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:17,680 They were going to live there. 214 00:11:20,690 --> 00:11:21,960 The plat. 215 00:11:22,070 --> 00:11:23,510 Has 6 lots within it. 216 00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:28,230 This lot where this house is now is designated as like the common area. 217 00:11:29,070 --> 00:11:29,830 Of the plat. 218 00:11:30,470 --> 00:11:32,990 So it's a lot 2 way within that subdivision. 219 00:11:33,790 --> 00:11:34,790 Used to be. 220 00:11:34,870 --> 00:11:37,190 For Clubhouse, you know, whatever. 221 00:11:37,750 --> 00:11:39,680 The HOA would like to have that for. 222 00:11:39,790 --> 00:11:43,470 But the the PUD was for six units for that that whole subdivision. 223 00:11:43,830 --> 00:11:45,550 Or on the north side too, On the South side. 224 00:11:46,110 --> 00:11:47,590 OK. Thank you. 225 00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:50,780 And with it being in a PUD. 226 00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:53,870 If the HOA decided, hey, we don't. 227 00:11:54,070 --> 00:11:58,550 Care about this small structure and would rather see a swimming pool in there. 228 00:11:59,390 --> 00:12:00,510 Is there any kind of? 229 00:12:00,590 --> 00:12:01,870 Preservation. 230 00:12:02,430 --> 00:12:03,510 Afforded to it. 231 00:12:03,590 --> 00:12:04,390 By the. 232 00:12:05,030 --> 00:12:06,600 Designation through the city. 233 00:12:07,070 --> 00:12:08,440 Preservation as being. 234 00:12:08,590 --> 00:12:09,550 The property no. 235 00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:14,670 They can still use the property if the property owner decides to tear it down and put a pool in its place. 236 00:12:14,830 --> 00:12:16,110 That's his their prerogative. 237 00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:19,000 OK. And. 238 00:12:19,510 --> 00:12:22,160 If we were to move forward with this. 239 00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:24,270 Could they still do that if they wanted to? 240 00:12:24,750 --> 00:12:25,270 Yes. 241 00:12:25,550 --> 00:12:27,190 OK, you have new owner, Yes? 242 00:12:27,270 --> 00:12:29,710 So really, there's nothing that preserves it. 243 00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:32,950 From that fate in my hypothetical example. 244 00:12:33,070 --> 00:12:34,870 By approving this or not approving it. 245 00:12:34,990 --> 00:12:35,870 Right, OK. 246 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:39,270 Even though it's already been designated as historic. 247 00:12:39,870 --> 00:12:40,430 Correct. 248 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:41,800 Yes. 249 00:12:42,190 --> 00:12:42,510 OK. 250 00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:45,470 As well make sure I understand. 251 00:12:45,670 --> 00:12:47,310 Nothing in what I'm walking into. 252 00:12:47,390 --> 00:12:49,870 Nothing in your historic preservation ordinance. 253 00:12:50,430 --> 00:12:51,830 Remove the property owners. 254 00:12:51,950 --> 00:12:54,950 Right to further develop the property as they see fit. 255 00:12:58,670 --> 00:13:01,470 Would seen as. 256 00:13:01,710 --> 00:13:03,590 As it's the common. 257 00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:05,790 Area for the PUD which is the. 258 00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:07,030 6. 259 00:13:07,630 --> 00:13:09,710 4 on the N, 2 on the South. 260 00:13:10,500 --> 00:13:12,440 Would trying to make it? 261 00:13:15,510 --> 00:13:16,470 A buildable lot. 262 00:13:16,910 --> 00:13:21,520 Be in agreement with that if that were the determination. 263 00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:24,590 Would be bringing a PUD amendment just like. 264 00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:27,110 3 isn't for the woods. 265 00:13:27,550 --> 00:13:30,350 Back to you to amend that conditional use permit. 266 00:13:30,710 --> 00:13:31,190 For that. 267 00:13:31,350 --> 00:13:33,070 Property for the PUD itself. 268 00:13:34,530 --> 00:13:35,370 Thank you. OK. 269 00:13:36,950 --> 00:13:38,790 All right. And I know we're going to go just. 270 00:13:39,510 --> 00:13:43,190 Mine minute over here on our official meeting, but the last. 271 00:13:43,310 --> 00:13:48,790 Thing that we have on our agenda is Royal Holiday Hills Block A and C final plan. 272 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:51,960 Which this is the. 273 00:13:52,610 --> 00:13:54,040 Trees and parking lot. 274 00:13:54,150 --> 00:13:57,710 Because we already settled the structure from the last meeting, is that right? 275 00:13:58,310 --> 00:14:01,230 Right. So you left off with a final. 276 00:14:01,950 --> 00:14:05,190 For landscaping and architecture to come back. 277 00:14:05,270 --> 00:14:06,430 For approvals. 278 00:14:07,070 --> 00:14:08,630 Staffs reviewed what's been. 279 00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:10,670 Reproposed by the applicant. 280 00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:15,470 The landscaping plan that's in your packet is one that complies with the ordinance. 281 00:14:16,510 --> 00:14:18,470 The designs of the buildings. 282 00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:21,950 Are better they they kind of meet. 283 00:14:22,270 --> 00:14:24,150 A lot of the elements that I was. 284 00:14:24,510 --> 00:14:25,470 Hoping that that. 285 00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:27,000 North building would do. 286 00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:32,790 But the applicants brought their design team here and they can go through that with you. But. 287 00:14:32,990 --> 00:14:34,070 The concerns were. 288 00:14:34,350 --> 00:14:36,270 Being into such a prominent corner. 289 00:14:36,670 --> 00:14:39,430 Turning its back to Murray Holiday Road and having that. 290 00:14:39,550 --> 00:14:42,510 That corner lose its prominence, so to speak. 291 00:14:43,510 --> 00:14:47,630 Was of my concern as far as being design oriented. 292 00:14:47,830 --> 00:14:49,790 So the the. 293 00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:51,550 Tell a story windows that have been. 294 00:14:51,630 --> 00:14:55,030 Put in your packet kind of address. That gives it a more prominence. 295 00:14:55,870 --> 00:14:56,710 A prominent. 296 00:14:57,310 --> 00:15:02,110 Than what it used to have. Plus they've added quite a bit of additional landscaping to that site. 297 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:04,960 And then in this rendering that. 298 00:15:05,150 --> 00:15:06,390 We're currently on. 299 00:15:06,830 --> 00:15:11,190 The shadow boxes are the signage that's going to go there. You're seeing through. 300 00:15:11,350 --> 00:15:14,990 Those signs, Yeah. The project site signs, yeah. 301 00:15:15,630 --> 00:15:18,590 OK. All right. Any questions on this one? 302 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:22,400 All right. With that, we will go ahead and close the. 303 00:15:23,070 --> 00:15:24,190 Work meeting. 304 00:15:24,270 --> 00:15:27,150 And we will roll right into our official meeting. 305 00:15:28,190 --> 00:15:30,270 Or do you need a second to pause and restart John? 306 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,920 No, we shouldn't need to pause. 307 00:15:35,550 --> 00:15:37,310 OK. All right. 308 00:15:37,430 --> 00:15:38,470 So with that. 309 00:15:38,670 --> 00:15:42,310 Good evening, everyone. Good afternoon still, whichever way you want to look at it. 310 00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:47,750 Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission, April 21st, 2026. 311 00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:49,870 We have all. 312 00:15:50,150 --> 00:15:53,600 Commissioners and attendants except for Tiffany and. 313 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:55,320 Cunningham. 314 00:15:56,130 --> 00:16:00,040 And we have the four items on the agenda tonight. 315 00:16:00,470 --> 00:16:04,710 One note on those looking at the agenda that was printed is that. 316 00:16:04,790 --> 00:16:12,710 Two and Three are located at 2394 E instead of Murray Holiday Rd. instead of 4910 S Holiday. 317 00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:18,530 And with that, we do have an opening statement that we read for members of the public at every meeting, and I have asked 318 00:16:18,530 --> 00:16:22,590 Commissioner Font if she will do that for us now. 319 00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:23,590 Certainly, umm. 320 00:16:24,190 --> 00:16:28,110 The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special 321 00:16:28,110 --> 00:16:32,030 studies. 322 00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:36,450 Make recommendations to the City Council and propose zoning map and ordinance changes and approve conditional uses in 323 00:16:36,450 --> 00:16:40,670 subdivisions. 324 00:16:40,830 --> 00:16:44,680 The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications. 325 00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:47,710 Rather, acts on applications as they are submitted. 326 00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:52,830 Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings. 327 00:16:53,190 --> 00:16:56,670 Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda. 328 00:16:56,750 --> 00:16:59,440 Where the location? The nature of the neighborhood? 329 00:16:59,590 --> 00:17:03,990 Existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are noted. 330 00:17:04,590 --> 00:17:09,750 Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff. 331 00:17:10,110 --> 00:17:13,590 The city's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports. 332 00:17:14,030 --> 00:17:16,670 By all verbal and written comments. 333 00:17:16,830 --> 00:17:18,560 And by evidence submitted. 334 00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:21,150 All of which are part of the public record. 335 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:24,000 Thank you very much, Commissioner Font. 336 00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:31,030 All right, and with that, the first item on our agenda this evening is the Woods lot. 337 00:17:31,150 --> 00:17:34,910 Three PUD amendment for 6325 S. 338 00:17:35,710 --> 00:17:39,350 And Kerry is going to walk us through. 339 00:17:39,790 --> 00:17:41,030 The details of that. 340 00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:54,780 All right. Thank you, Chairman Roche. 341 00:17:56,270 --> 00:18:00,990 So application is for an amendment to a planned unit development. 342 00:18:01,590 --> 00:18:05,710 This PUD was originally approved in 2004. 343 00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:10,310 Since then, we've seen a couple of amendments on other lots in the beauty. 344 00:18:10,790 --> 00:18:13,710 This amendment is just for Lot 3. 345 00:18:13,790 --> 00:18:17,430 Which is the second plot from the South end. 346 00:18:17,790 --> 00:18:18,350 Of the PUD. 347 00:18:19,390 --> 00:18:24,720 And the applicant is wanting to move a previously approved building area. 348 00:18:25,150 --> 00:18:27,630 Seen on the screen, it is the dashed. 349 00:18:30,110 --> 00:18:36,150 Wants to remove the portion to the north side of the existing structure. 350 00:18:37,110 --> 00:18:39,110 To the South side. 351 00:18:39,710 --> 00:18:40,920 Slightly different. 352 00:18:41,030 --> 00:18:42,110 Configuration. 353 00:18:42,310 --> 00:18:43,390 But the same. 354 00:18:43,630 --> 00:18:44,990 Total square footage. 355 00:18:46,230 --> 00:18:49,830 This will preserve landscaping on the north side of the structure. 356 00:18:50,550 --> 00:18:54,840 There will be some landscaping that's affected on the South side of the structure. 357 00:18:55,270 --> 00:18:56,430 We'll bring a. 358 00:18:57,550 --> 00:18:59,670 Portion of the structure that's currently. 359 00:18:59,750 --> 00:19:03,870 Outside of the building area into the building area, you can see that. 360 00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:05,710 Small little rectangle the. 361 00:19:05,790 --> 00:19:07,480 Of the house that comes out there. 362 00:19:09,110 --> 00:19:10,550 So that will be brought in. 363 00:19:11,550 --> 00:19:13,790 I'm not sure how that ended up that way, but. 364 00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:15,070 It will fix it. 365 00:19:16,510 --> 00:19:20,150 Setbacks on the South side are going to be affected by this. 366 00:19:21,230 --> 00:19:25,230 I don't have the dimensions of how far back the existing house is. 367 00:19:25,390 --> 00:19:27,510 On that South property line. 368 00:19:28,830 --> 00:19:33,590 Estimated about 35 feet from the property line as to where the. 369 00:19:33,710 --> 00:19:35,830 The new building envelope will. 370 00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:37,470 Will be modified too. 371 00:19:38,190 --> 00:19:41,670 And the applicant provided a summary of the project. 372 00:19:42,190 --> 00:19:43,470 It's to. 373 00:19:43,590 --> 00:19:50,230 Add on to the house on that side and keep some of the landscaping improvements that have been put in on the Northside. 374 00:19:50,950 --> 00:19:52,990 I believe there are. 375 00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:55,150 There's one or two trees. 376 00:19:55,950 --> 00:19:58,470 Detailed in the staff report there in that area. 377 00:19:59,150 --> 00:20:00,870 Recommendation is to. 378 00:20:01,870 --> 00:20:03,470 Have those be replaced? 379 00:20:04,230 --> 00:20:06,430 If they're removed or affected by. 380 00:20:07,430 --> 00:20:09,390 Any potential addition on that? 381 00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:10,950 South side of the house. 382 00:20:12,540 --> 00:20:14,320 We did discuss in the work meeting. 383 00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:18,480 The property on Lot 4, which is to the South of this property. 384 00:20:19,510 --> 00:20:21,350 That house is built. 385 00:20:21,510 --> 00:20:24,190 Closer to the property line due to. 386 00:20:24,380 --> 00:20:27,180 A slope. 387 00:20:27,460 --> 00:20:28,900 From the South side. 388 00:20:29,220 --> 00:20:30,340 Of the property. 389 00:20:30,460 --> 00:20:31,940 So this will bring. 390 00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:34,660 Proposed structure closer to. 391 00:20:35,540 --> 00:20:36,820 What is Lot for? 392 00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:38,380 So you can see there. 393 00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:41,780 Lot 4 is pretty close to. 394 00:20:42,860 --> 00:20:46,420 The the shared property line between those two lots. 395 00:20:47,260 --> 00:20:48,980 Changing the building area will. 396 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,860 Will increase or sorry, will decrease. 397 00:20:52,060 --> 00:20:56,700 Total setbacks between structures, but not be any closer than what the. 398 00:20:57,380 --> 00:21:00,660 What the house on lot 4 has as a set back. 399 00:21:01,740 --> 00:21:03,660 I'll have the applicant come up if. 400 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:07,020 They are here and they can talk about the project a little bit more. 401 00:21:07,260 --> 00:21:08,980 OK. Thank you. 402 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:18,110 Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Robert Schaefer. I'm the actual owner of the house. 403 00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:21,140 Bobby Panko is my stepson and the. 404 00:21:21,260 --> 00:21:22,180 Contractor. 405 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:25,860 I basically get we've. 406 00:21:25,980 --> 00:21:27,780 What we're planning to do is build. 407 00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:29,340 A garage. 408 00:21:29,420 --> 00:21:33,300 In that spot that is identical in architecture to the existing garage. 409 00:21:34,230 --> 00:21:38,070 The reason for doing this is we're converting the existing garage. 410 00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:41,780 Which is fully plumbed, fully heated and so on. 411 00:21:41,940 --> 00:21:44,620 Into an apartment for my 93 year old mother-in-law. 412 00:21:45,650 --> 00:21:48,190 And so we need to have A2 car garage. 413 00:21:48,340 --> 00:21:50,860 To replace that one, and that's what that will become. 414 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:55,270 As you can see, we've got a large rounded driveway there. It's also part of the. 415 00:21:55,420 --> 00:22:00,350 Turn around area, we're not impacting the exact the turn around area at all for. 416 00:22:01,540 --> 00:22:04,180 Trucks that come into the neighborhood and that sort of thing. 417 00:22:04,460 --> 00:22:05,140 And. 418 00:22:05,580 --> 00:22:09,340 We're trying to do this because my 93 year old mother-in-law will not move into an assisted living facility and she wants us to 419 00:22:09,340 --> 00:22:13,100 take care of her. 420 00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:18,810 OK, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Questions for the applicant. 421 00:22:20,850 --> 00:22:22,910 All right. Thank you very much. Go ahead and have a seat. 422 00:22:24,740 --> 00:22:27,180 All right, and. 423 00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:28,900 Just real quick. 424 00:22:28,980 --> 00:22:31,220 Question for city staff? There are. 425 00:22:31,380 --> 00:22:34,660 I'm looking at my packet here. There are two different motions. 426 00:22:35,660 --> 00:22:36,460 For this. 427 00:22:37,060 --> 00:22:39,820 In the packet, there's a subdivision amendment, and then there's a. 428 00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:41,660 PUD conditionally used. 429 00:22:42,060 --> 00:22:43,100 Permit amendment. 430 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:48,860 Yes. So same as we've seen with other PUD's, it affects the subdivision plat. 431 00:22:49,020 --> 00:22:53,350 So there's a motion to change the subdivision. 432 00:22:53,460 --> 00:22:54,140 Itself. 433 00:22:54,380 --> 00:23:00,300 And then also changes then to the conditional use permit for a planned unit development. 434 00:23:00,580 --> 00:23:03,950 So some slight variation between those two findings. 435 00:23:04,540 --> 00:23:07,300 There's not as many findings on the. 436 00:23:08,260 --> 00:23:09,180 Conditional use. 437 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:10,620 Permit for the PUD. 438 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:12,340 Because. 439 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:13,940 Conditional use permits. 440 00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:16,180 Related to PUD's are based off of. 441 00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:19,390 What does site entails? Is it meeting the? 442 00:23:19,580 --> 00:23:24,300 Intent and purpose of a PUD which is preservation of open space. 443 00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:28,820 So that the findings for the. 444 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:30,820 The conditional use are geared toward. 445 00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:33,460 What is in our PUD ordinance? 446 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:35,950 So do we need to have? 447 00:23:36,060 --> 00:23:37,830 Both motions and. 448 00:23:39,570 --> 00:23:40,790 Both loaded on then. 449 00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:41,780 In this OK. 450 00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:44,620 Just want to make sure when it comes time for that, that. 451 00:23:44,980 --> 00:23:48,180 I know the direction we're going with this, so thank you for that clarification. 452 00:23:48,940 --> 00:23:52,500 All right. And this is public hearing, so. 453 00:23:52,660 --> 00:23:59,390 We will open this up to members of the public who wish to speak on item one at this time if you do wish to speak on item 1. 454 00:23:59,860 --> 00:24:00,580 We asked. 455 00:24:00,780 --> 00:24:04,700 That when you come up to the pulpit, you state your name and address for the record. 456 00:24:05,020 --> 00:24:11,750 And then also try and keep your remarks to 3 minutes or less, and if someone has gone before you, try not to. 457 00:24:11,860 --> 00:24:15,420 Making all the same comments and points they've made, just. 458 00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:17,180 A Ditto will suffice. 459 00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:21,500 We invite anyone who wishes to come up and speak on this, this time now. 460 00:24:25,060 --> 00:24:26,420 Once. Twice. 461 00:24:27,410 --> 00:24:30,690 All right, looks like everyone's here for the next event, so. 462 00:24:31,020 --> 00:24:34,180 With that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing then. 463 00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:36,420 Commissioners, any questions? 464 00:24:36,740 --> 00:24:39,820 Chair, I have a question regarding the. 465 00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:41,020 Trees. Umm. 466 00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:46,540 The the the suggested motions for both the subdivision. 467 00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:49,380 And the PUD refer to. 468 00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:51,340 More trees being. 469 00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:52,180 Preserved. 470 00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:53,780 Then removed. 471 00:24:53,860 --> 00:24:57,940 Or that any trees that are removed have to be replaced. 472 00:24:59,060 --> 00:25:02,020 With an equivalent tree canopy at maturity, is that? 473 00:25:02,380 --> 00:25:04,790 Does the applicant have that same understanding? 474 00:25:05,540 --> 00:25:06,580 Regarding trees. 475 00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:12,260 OK. 476 00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:15,820 And in case that didn't get picked up by the mic, the applicant. 477 00:25:16,260 --> 00:25:20,100 Did a note that in the affirmative. Yes. All right. 478 00:25:20,940 --> 00:25:26,940 So unless commissioners, there's any further discussion on this, it sounds like you know. 479 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:34,100 If I had the means, I'd want my 93 year old mom to stay in my house instead of a care facility if I could afford it for her so. 480 00:25:34,620 --> 00:25:36,940 We just have to get it built before just, yeah. 481 00:25:37,020 --> 00:25:38,460 You know have to make sure it's. 482 00:25:38,580 --> 00:25:39,420 There, umm. 483 00:25:42,540 --> 00:25:44,020 This is Commissioner Prince. 484 00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:48,020 I Motion for approval of a subdivision amendment to lock. 485 00:25:48,140 --> 00:25:52,780 Three of the Woods planned unit development of four lot residential development. 486 00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:57,500 Within the R143 zone located at 6325 S. 487 00:25:57,740 --> 00:25:59,380 2710 E. 488 00:25:59,780 --> 00:26:00,660 Finding that the. 489 00:26:00,740 --> 00:26:01,620 Proposal. 490 00:26:01,740 --> 00:26:04,380 Includes the findings as listed in the packet. 491 00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:06,780 And that. 492 00:26:08,530 --> 00:26:09,130 The. 493 00:26:12,740 --> 00:26:16,260 The applicant follow all of the conditions that were suggested. 494 00:26:16,500 --> 00:26:17,060 By the. 495 00:26:17,140 --> 00:26:18,540 Technical review committee. 496 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,350 This Commissioner Baron, I'll second that. 497 00:26:22,740 --> 00:26:26,460 All right, we have a motion and a second. We'll call for a vote. Commissioner fault. 498 00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:28,780 Aye, Commissioner Prince. Aye, Commissioner gong aye. 499 00:26:29,060 --> 00:26:32,900 Commissioner Baron Aye and Chair Roach votes aye, so that one. 500 00:26:34,550 --> 00:26:38,630 Moves on and then there is a second motion attached to this. 501 00:26:39,340 --> 00:26:40,820 This is Commissioner Prince. 502 00:26:41,220 --> 00:26:46,500 I Motion for approval of an amendment to the conditional use permit related to the site plan of LOT. 503 00:26:46,620 --> 00:26:49,180 Three of the Woods planned unit development. 504 00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:55,700 A4 lot residential development within the R143 zone located at 6325 S. 505 00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:58,180 2710 E. 506 00:26:59,020 --> 00:27:02,340 With all of the findings included in our packet. 507 00:27:02,740 --> 00:27:04,100 And any Commission. 508 00:27:04,220 --> 00:27:07,100 Conditions as suggested by the Technical Review Committee. 509 00:27:09,010 --> 00:27:09,870 Commissioner Font. 510 00:27:10,060 --> 00:27:11,500 Second, all right. 511 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:14,500 And we will call for a vote again, starting down here, Commissioner Baron. 512 00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:16,980 Aye, Commissioner Gom. Aye, Commissioner Prince, aye. 513 00:27:17,180 --> 00:27:19,580 Commissioner flaunt aye and Chair Roach votes aye. 514 00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:22,180 So thank you very much. 515 00:27:22,660 --> 00:27:24,030 Good luck with the project. 516 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:26,670 Hope your mom's happy. 517 00:27:29,180 --> 00:27:34,340 All right. And then we will turn to City staff, Mr. John Tierlink. 518 00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:37,830 To walk us through items 2 and 3. 519 00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:40,620 The Casper Cottage. 520 00:27:41,140 --> 00:27:46,940 Historical site condition land use permit at 2394 E Murray Holiday Rd. 521 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,070 Thank you, Chair. Sorry for the jostling. We're still getting used to our new space here. 522 00:27:56,100 --> 00:27:58,540 And who was sitting where, I guess. 523 00:27:59,780 --> 00:28:02,940 So item 2:00 and 3:00 tonight are at the same property. 524 00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:08,590 The reason why they're separated into two separate items is the first one is we're looking for. 525 00:28:09,260 --> 00:28:11,900 A modification to an existing. 526 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:13,060 Historic use. 527 00:28:13,460 --> 00:28:16,820 So the applicant is proposing some changes to the facade and roofline. 528 00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:18,180 Of a property. 529 00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:19,620 The second item. 530 00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:21,580 Is at that site. 531 00:28:22,340 --> 00:28:24,900 Some additional land uses are being requested. 532 00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:26,660 Historic Properties. 533 00:28:27,260 --> 00:28:29,180 For the purposes of sustaining. 534 00:28:29,260 --> 00:28:30,500 Their uses through. 535 00:28:30,860 --> 00:28:32,460 Through the city as. 536 00:28:32,740 --> 00:28:34,420 As a goal of historic preservation. 537 00:28:34,580 --> 00:28:35,740 Start preservation. 538 00:28:36,980 --> 00:28:39,620 A few land uses are allowed to be granted. 539 00:28:40,020 --> 00:28:41,740 At historic properties. 540 00:28:41,980 --> 00:28:42,940 In order to. 541 00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:44,220 Monetarily or? 542 00:28:44,340 --> 00:28:45,300 Otherwise. 543 00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,700 Sustain that property in perpetuity. 544 00:28:48,820 --> 00:28:52,860 That list is in your packet as far as ordinance. 545 00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:55,630 There's a lot of other uses there. 546 00:28:55,820 --> 00:28:57,780 Specifically for this application. 547 00:28:58,300 --> 00:28:59,940 The property owner is selecting. 548 00:29:00,140 --> 00:29:01,380 Two out of the list. 549 00:29:01,940 --> 00:29:03,660 Which would be an antique shop. 550 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:06,420 And then an additional dwelling unit. 551 00:29:07,140 --> 00:29:10,070 Staff has reviewed the application in terms of. 552 00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:12,740 The goals and purposes of historic preservation. 553 00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:17,020 The first item for you to review and make a motion on. 554 00:29:17,460 --> 00:29:19,820 I think you can probably hold the public hearing. 555 00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:20,620 Together. 556 00:29:20,740 --> 00:29:23,140 I don't think you need to separate them, but it's up to you. 557 00:29:24,220 --> 00:29:25,780 It might keep it more orderly. 558 00:29:26,420 --> 00:29:28,700 Is the the site modification. 559 00:29:29,420 --> 00:29:33,020 From TRC's reviews and standpoint. 560 00:29:33,740 --> 00:29:36,460 When we talked about site modifications, we're really looking. 561 00:29:37,190 --> 00:29:40,310 Comes to mind is the actual site landscaping and things like that. 562 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,190 Currently, the applicant has not proposed any changes to the site. 563 00:29:46,180 --> 00:29:48,460 As far as landscaping, parking areas. 564 00:29:49,540 --> 00:29:50,980 Et cetera. 565 00:29:51,140 --> 00:29:52,900 Specifically to the facade. 566 00:29:53,460 --> 00:29:55,460 And then a small change to the roof. 567 00:29:56,740 --> 00:30:02,420 The staff's point of view is there is an assessment of the property when it was designated historic. 568 00:30:02,860 --> 00:30:05,500 As a crosswind style of the early 1900s. 569 00:30:06,220 --> 00:30:08,630 I believe the applicant is looking to move toward. 570 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:10,140 More of a period. 571 00:30:10,260 --> 00:30:10,740 Element. 572 00:30:12,180 --> 00:30:15,700 The applicant is missing or the application is missing some. 573 00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:19,740 Materials and some details as to how that would particularly take place. 574 00:30:20,460 --> 00:30:21,860 So I would be interested in. 575 00:30:22,220 --> 00:30:24,140 Having maybe those questions answered. 576 00:30:24,220 --> 00:30:25,300 By the Planning Commission. 577 00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:29,860 But other than that, that's the extent of the site modification proposed by the. 578 00:30:29,940 --> 00:30:30,700 Application. 579 00:30:32,290 --> 00:30:33,270 Secondary. 580 00:30:33,420 --> 00:30:35,380 To this is a request for. 581 00:30:35,740 --> 00:30:37,340 Retail use site. 582 00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:38,940 Which would be an antique shop. 583 00:30:39,060 --> 00:30:41,740 As well as a residential use for the property. 584 00:30:42,540 --> 00:30:44,340 In addition to what the structure? 585 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:45,820 Provides currently. 586 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,200 There are some examples of some museums and such in the. 587 00:30:52,660 --> 00:30:53,420 The narrative. 588 00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:55,660 However, the application. 589 00:30:55,740 --> 00:30:57,500 For historic preservation. 590 00:30:57,700 --> 00:30:58,860 Is really reviewed. 591 00:30:58,940 --> 00:30:59,660 Against. 592 00:30:59,860 --> 00:31:02,380 How these additional land uses support? 593 00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:05,220 What that historic preservation is intended to maintain. 594 00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:09,860 So it would be good for the Planning Commission to moderate a discussion. 595 00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:12,780 Along those lines of how these additional land uses. 596 00:31:13,020 --> 00:31:16,740 Would support the Casper Cottage as historic pioneer home. 597 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,950 So there's still some details that I think can be fleshed out. 598 00:31:23,340 --> 00:31:25,540 With the output between the Planning Commission. 599 00:31:25,980 --> 00:31:32,430 And the property owner. So the staff's recommendation at this point is to continue that discussion, have some opportunity for. 600 00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:34,460 More in depth presentation. 601 00:31:35,020 --> 00:31:41,500 But there is a public hearing required for these two items. So having those hearings and making. 602 00:31:41,940 --> 00:31:44,300 Consideration based upon the comments given. 603 00:31:45,020 --> 00:31:48,420 Is would be the priority of this part of this meeting? 604 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,680 I'll be take any other questions you might have. 605 00:31:52,220 --> 00:31:53,660 I just have a quick question. 606 00:31:54,020 --> 00:31:56,100 Is there an expectation on? 607 00:31:56,260 --> 00:31:58,180 A particular architectural. 608 00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:59,860 Style that. 609 00:32:00,660 --> 00:32:01,940 Is either. 610 00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:04,860 Placed on the building as it's remodeled. 611 00:32:05,580 --> 00:32:08,300 Or the expectation would be to. 612 00:32:08,420 --> 00:32:09,980 Have some examples of what? 613 00:32:11,130 --> 00:32:12,110 Trying to shoot for. 614 00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:16,180 Essentially so having examples of early 1900s architecture. 615 00:32:16,460 --> 00:32:19,020 In its pristine condition. 616 00:32:19,420 --> 00:32:20,380 That would be the goal. 617 00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:25,750 I so there's no continuation of adjacent architecture. 618 00:32:25,860 --> 00:32:29,100 That this kind of replicates some of those same features. 619 00:32:29,540 --> 00:32:30,940 The fenestration. 620 00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:32,060 I would. 621 00:32:32,260 --> 00:32:34,380 Anticipate that that would be provided. 622 00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:36,550 Yes, but I'm not seeing those details. 623 00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:40,990 Because I'm trying to figure out how the Planning Commission can make a decision with this. 624 00:32:41,540 --> 00:32:43,500 Without all the pieces in place. 625 00:32:44,140 --> 00:32:46,260 And maybe it's just my lack of understanding of. 626 00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:48,940 Historical because it seems that. 627 00:32:49,020 --> 00:32:51,100 There needs to be more specificity to. 628 00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:53,700 Kind of what I guess they're expecting. 629 00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:55,820 Us to be able to decide on. 630 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:57,910 So, OK, thanks. 631 00:32:58,790 --> 00:33:00,150 I also have a question. 632 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:02,180 It seems in the past that we've. 633 00:33:02,540 --> 00:33:05,260 We've looked at these kinds of projects. 634 00:33:05,860 --> 00:33:08,340 We've had more detail relative to the. 635 00:33:08,620 --> 00:33:11,420 Business side of the proposal, in other words. 636 00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:13,180 Things like parking and. 637 00:33:14,780 --> 00:33:16,500 Flow of traffic and. 638 00:33:17,470 --> 00:33:21,630 Lighting and those kinds of things, and there doesn't seem to be any. 639 00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:24,580 Indication of any of that so. 640 00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:27,100 I'm assuming that those are the kinds of. 641 00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:28,340 Questions were. 642 00:33:28,420 --> 00:33:30,820 To ask the applicant about tonight as well. 643 00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:35,380 Yeah. Surrounding with the operation of what that would potentially be is critical for the Planning Commission to understand as 644 00:33:35,380 --> 00:33:39,460 additional land use. 645 00:33:39,740 --> 00:33:42,110 Because you have those land uses in different zones. 646 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:46,700 There's standards for them and there's reasons why there's standards for them for impact of. 647 00:33:47,220 --> 00:33:49,860 Neighboring properties if it's a retail space. 648 00:33:50,580 --> 00:33:53,030 So those details are definitely something you would need to know. 649 00:33:55,510 --> 00:33:58,470 One on question on parking, is the parking going to be off site then? 650 00:34:00,310 --> 00:34:05,670 I would assume so. There's there's a section in the narrative that does talk about using offsite parking. 651 00:34:05,740 --> 00:34:06,980 You can use St. OK. 652 00:34:08,660 --> 00:34:09,220 And. 653 00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:12,750 The zoning on this? 654 00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:16,160 I mean, I understand if it's designated. 655 00:34:17,060 --> 00:34:20,150 Historic site, it gives it flexibility on that but. 656 00:34:21,720 --> 00:34:24,560 I mean, is there any sort of precedent for? 657 00:34:25,670 --> 00:34:29,110 In our community, a historic property to be. 658 00:34:33,740 --> 00:34:35,140 Business inside of a PUD. 659 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,790 Not that I'm aware of, no. Your past application and. 660 00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:46,790 Conditional use permit that you granted for the interior design space. 661 00:34:47,620 --> 00:34:48,900 Was not into beauty. 662 00:34:49,020 --> 00:34:50,140 It was in a subdivision. 663 00:34:50,220 --> 00:34:50,860 I believe. 664 00:34:52,620 --> 00:34:53,950 But anything that would be. 665 00:34:54,140 --> 00:34:58,900 Contrary to the conditions of the PUD if we're considered hypothetically approved. 666 00:34:59,460 --> 00:35:00,220 That PUD. 667 00:35:01,620 --> 00:35:03,420 Set of conditions would have to be amended. 668 00:35:03,620 --> 00:35:04,420 Accordingly. 669 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:07,990 And that's not before us tonight, no. 670 00:35:08,460 --> 00:35:08,620 OK. 671 00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:11,700 OK. Other questions? 672 00:35:11,980 --> 00:35:12,740 City staff. 673 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,630 All right, let's hear from the applicant. 674 00:35:26,190 --> 00:35:28,670 Ron Hilton, 2390 E. 675 00:35:28,820 --> 00:35:29,980 Murray Holiday Rd. 676 00:35:31,820 --> 00:35:34,500 Which is directly across the street from the subject property. 677 00:35:35,180 --> 00:35:36,580 And also part of the same PUD. 678 00:35:38,740 --> 00:35:41,390 So I guess let's start with the modification. 679 00:35:42,900 --> 00:35:44,100 If we could look at the. 680 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,870 The existing and the proposed facade. 681 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:56,910 There we go. 682 00:36:00,850 --> 00:36:03,990 OK, so on the top is what the building currently looks like. 683 00:36:05,820 --> 00:36:07,980 And then the one below that is. 684 00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:10,060 What we're proposing to make it look like. 685 00:36:10,540 --> 00:36:11,460 So the. 686 00:36:14,310 --> 00:36:17,750 The original building was actually just a 2 room. 687 00:36:18,220 --> 00:36:20,620 Cottage. They call it a shotgun. 688 00:36:20,740 --> 00:36:25,220 Cottage, so it was not a cross wing when it was built in 1898. 689 00:36:26,260 --> 00:36:28,460 And so that's that larger. 690 00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:30,500 Part there with. 691 00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:33,670 You know, the kind of the Victorian. 692 00:36:34,260 --> 00:36:37,060 Style Gable and so forth. 693 00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:39,380 And then the. 694 00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:41,820 There was actually 2 editions made. 695 00:36:42,580 --> 00:36:45,820 That turned it into the cross wing style. 696 00:36:45,980 --> 00:36:50,260 And that was done, we're not sure exactly when, but it was done probably before 1920. 697 00:36:51,060 --> 00:36:52,700 Or certainly before 1930. 698 00:36:55,230 --> 00:36:56,430 Very different. 699 00:36:58,060 --> 00:36:59,580 Construction very. 700 00:37:00,220 --> 00:37:02,260 A much poorer quality. 701 00:37:03,460 --> 00:37:06,980 So the original building actually was an early adopter of a. 702 00:37:08,090 --> 00:37:10,430 I have a poured concrete foundation. 703 00:37:10,940 --> 00:37:12,780 And then when they did the addition. 704 00:37:13,140 --> 00:37:15,420 It was just several layers of brick. 705 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:17,520 You know under very. 706 00:37:17,740 --> 00:37:19,260 Very rudimentary. 707 00:37:20,820 --> 00:37:22,380 Yeah, you can see that picture there. 708 00:37:24,830 --> 00:37:27,230 And not in great shape at this point. 709 00:37:27,660 --> 00:37:29,460 There, there's actually 3. 710 00:37:29,580 --> 00:37:31,300 Antique car jacks. 711 00:37:31,380 --> 00:37:34,180 Bumper jacks holding up different parts of the floor. 712 00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:35,380 Of that edition. 713 00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:37,300 So it's in pretty sad shape. 714 00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,380 But what are int? 715 00:37:40,780 --> 00:37:42,580 Intent is is to try and. 716 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,750 Preserve the. 717 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,310 What might have been the original intent of the builders? 718 00:37:48,580 --> 00:37:53,220 So cross wing was a thing at that time? 719 00:37:53,940 --> 00:37:56,180 There's and. I didn't include this, but. 720 00:37:56,740 --> 00:37:57,620 There's a home. 721 00:37:58,300 --> 00:37:59,980 Called the Andrus home. 722 00:38:00,420 --> 00:38:01,500 Andrus was a. 723 00:38:02,060 --> 00:38:03,660 Significant family and. 724 00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:04,820 Holiday history. 725 00:38:05,020 --> 00:38:08,060 Milo, Milo. 726 00:38:08,540 --> 00:38:09,940 Basically MiTo Andrus. 727 00:38:10,580 --> 00:38:11,580 Named after him. 728 00:38:12,460 --> 00:38:13,980 The anywhere the Andrews home. 729 00:38:14,420 --> 00:38:16,100 Was built around the same time. 730 00:38:16,180 --> 00:38:17,220 Slightly early I think. 731 00:38:17,500 --> 00:38:18,900 1894 it was. 732 00:38:20,380 --> 00:38:22,780 East of the main intersection of Holiday. 733 00:38:24,180 --> 00:38:25,740 But it was a cross wing. 734 00:38:26,060 --> 00:38:29,220 Brick. And it had. 735 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,440 So what it had that we're. 736 00:38:32,860 --> 00:38:37,300 Use as a as a sample of what we want to do is. 737 00:38:37,620 --> 00:38:39,820 The roofline was the same for the. 738 00:38:40,060 --> 00:38:41,980 Cross wing as it was for the main. 739 00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:42,980 Section. 740 00:38:43,460 --> 00:38:45,460 The windows were all the same. 741 00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:48,180 So we're proposing that they be the same. 742 00:38:49,620 --> 00:38:51,460 Now we're actually on the main. 743 00:38:52,180 --> 00:38:52,860 The. 744 00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:55,740 They enlarged. 745 00:38:55,820 --> 00:38:56,420 One of the. 746 00:38:56,780 --> 00:38:58,340 One of the windows at one point. 747 00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:02,020 And we're proposing to restore that to its original size. 748 00:39:02,420 --> 00:39:04,780 And then make the new Windows of the same. 749 00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:06,220 Size and style. 750 00:39:06,940 --> 00:39:09,980 And also, Leander's home was all brick. 751 00:39:10,580 --> 00:39:13,780 The additions that were. 752 00:39:13,980 --> 00:39:15,740 Put on this home. 753 00:39:16,180 --> 00:39:17,900 In the early 1900s. 754 00:39:18,380 --> 00:39:19,780 Of our frame. 755 00:39:19,940 --> 00:39:21,180 With sighting. 756 00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:23,460 So it's a different exterior finish where? 757 00:39:23,580 --> 00:39:24,940 Posing to make it all brick. 758 00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:26,660 Similar to the address home. 759 00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:29,300 The other thing we're restoring? 760 00:39:30,460 --> 00:39:32,660 If you look right in the middle where that. 761 00:39:32,740 --> 00:39:33,580 Window is. 762 00:39:33,780 --> 00:39:37,900 That was It looks like an addition, but it was actually part of the original. 763 00:39:38,900 --> 00:39:39,820 But it was. 764 00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:42,260 Not enclosed, it was a port. 765 00:39:43,180 --> 00:39:44,900 And it actually has a cement. 766 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,190 Found if cement there was. 767 00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:50,300 Part of the original cement. 768 00:39:50,740 --> 00:39:52,740 Poured concrete foundation so. 769 00:39:52,860 --> 00:39:54,700 We're going to return that to being a. 770 00:39:55,020 --> 00:39:57,340 Porch and take down those. 771 00:39:57,580 --> 00:39:58,940 Those walls, they were added. 772 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:01,790 So the windows. 773 00:40:02,340 --> 00:40:05,380 The ports are actually restoring it to the original. 774 00:40:05,460 --> 00:40:07,180 And then the cross wing. 775 00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:11,340 Essentially trying to. 776 00:40:11,950 --> 00:40:14,390 Be similar to other buildings of that time. 777 00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,980 The Andros home, in particular the Anders home. 778 00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:19,180 Was the oldest. 779 00:40:19,580 --> 00:40:21,700 Building in central holiday. 780 00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:23,060 Until mid. 781 00:40:23,220 --> 00:40:25,820 1970s and unfortunately was torn down. 782 00:40:25,980 --> 00:40:26,540 So this is. 783 00:40:27,260 --> 00:40:29,060 Actually the oldest historic. 784 00:40:29,140 --> 00:40:30,860 Building in the center area of holiday. 785 00:40:32,020 --> 00:40:34,260 And so we want to highlight. 786 00:40:34,540 --> 00:40:35,900 You know what a building of that. 787 00:40:36,140 --> 00:40:37,980 Type. You know what it looked like. 788 00:40:38,540 --> 00:40:39,460 We believe. 789 00:40:40,660 --> 00:40:46,780 That economics may have been a factor in the original construction. You know, the fact that they just did a. 790 00:40:47,090 --> 00:40:47,890 A2 room. 791 00:40:48,130 --> 00:40:49,090 Single. 792 00:40:50,450 --> 00:40:51,290 Building. 793 00:40:51,570 --> 00:40:52,570 Without the crosswing. 794 00:40:54,250 --> 00:40:55,490 Because they. 795 00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:58,860 The Casper family. 796 00:40:59,530 --> 00:41:02,290 Took out a mortgage on the property right after they built it. 797 00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:05,330 So suggesting that they you know. 798 00:41:05,690 --> 00:41:06,530 You know we're. 799 00:41:06,650 --> 00:41:08,330 Kind of financially strapped. 800 00:41:08,450 --> 00:41:10,770 And they also had a family dispute. 801 00:41:11,170 --> 00:41:13,690 About selling off other parts of the property. 802 00:41:15,330 --> 00:41:16,810 The part of this so it was. 803 00:41:17,010 --> 00:41:18,810 A larger property at the time. 804 00:41:18,930 --> 00:41:20,370 It went all the way to Clearview. 805 00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:25,010 And they sold that part that goes into Clearview to the Okeson family. 806 00:41:26,970 --> 00:41:31,490 And Oakson Circle right there, that comes off clear. He's named after them, so they were another. 807 00:41:31,610 --> 00:41:33,300 Notable family of the time. 808 00:41:33,490 --> 00:41:34,250 Anyway, there was a. 809 00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:37,130 Controversy in the Casper family is to. 810 00:41:37,330 --> 00:41:38,890 Whether or not to sell that, but. 811 00:41:38,970 --> 00:41:42,970 You know, they felt like they needed the money, I guess basically. So anyway, bottom line. 812 00:41:43,330 --> 00:41:44,890 We feel like they would have done. 813 00:41:45,490 --> 00:41:47,050 Moore, the lacrosse wing. 814 00:41:47,170 --> 00:41:51,450 Full cosmic design if they'd had the resources at the time. So we're trying to honor that. 815 00:41:52,050 --> 00:41:55,210 But we believe that it might have been their original intent. 816 00:41:55,690 --> 00:41:56,810 And make it look like. 817 00:41:57,330 --> 00:41:59,490 You know other homes of the area. 818 00:41:59,610 --> 00:42:00,530 And the time. 819 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,300 Anyway, that's basically it for the modification, and there isn't. 820 00:42:05,650 --> 00:42:08,290 You know, we have a floor plan and we have the. 821 00:42:08,450 --> 00:42:09,690 Elevation, you know the. 822 00:42:10,450 --> 00:42:13,730 We haven't maybe provided the level of detail that. 823 00:42:14,890 --> 00:42:17,730 It would be needed before we pull a building permit. 824 00:42:18,210 --> 00:42:19,090 So you know. 825 00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:21,410 That would be something we'd have to. 826 00:42:21,490 --> 00:42:22,690 Provide but. 827 00:42:23,130 --> 00:42:24,450 There there's a general. 828 00:42:25,550 --> 00:42:26,340 Floor plan. 829 00:42:26,610 --> 00:42:27,410 Trying to. 830 00:42:28,090 --> 00:42:29,890 Basically stay within the same. 831 00:42:30,170 --> 00:42:32,770 Floor plan, We're enlarging it a little bit in the back. 832 00:42:35,330 --> 00:42:38,490 And but like you see that little notch there? 833 00:42:39,450 --> 00:42:41,490 Between the back half and the front. 834 00:42:41,810 --> 00:42:43,810 We did that so that we would not. 835 00:42:44,790 --> 00:42:46,380 We wanted to keep the. 836 00:42:46,530 --> 00:42:49,460 Original back of the building exposed so you could see. 837 00:42:49,570 --> 00:42:51,770 The original design there. 838 00:42:52,010 --> 00:42:52,490 When they. 839 00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:56,770 Put on these new additions, they kind of obliterated whatever was on the West side there. 840 00:42:57,010 --> 00:42:58,570 And so you know, that's. 841 00:42:58,890 --> 00:42:59,930 Pretty much gone, but. 842 00:43:00,210 --> 00:43:02,050 Like I said, we're going to restore the porch. 843 00:43:02,730 --> 00:43:03,330 And. 844 00:43:06,730 --> 00:43:08,130 He asked about parking. 845 00:43:08,850 --> 00:43:11,490 So basically. 846 00:43:11,850 --> 00:43:16,850 Ron, if I can just pause you real quick right there. So you've talked about the modification now. 847 00:43:18,250 --> 00:43:20,410 Quick question I have, do we have any? 848 00:43:20,770 --> 00:43:23,170 Didn't get a chance to go walk around your property? 849 00:43:24,290 --> 00:43:28,690 Do we have any kind of pictures or anything of what the back of the property looks like currently? 850 00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:30,540 In the packet. 851 00:43:34,190 --> 00:43:34,990 I didn't see. 852 00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:38,930 OK, the back is so the back of the main. 853 00:43:39,330 --> 00:43:41,210 Two room cottage. 854 00:43:41,610 --> 00:43:43,250 Is also brick, of course. 855 00:43:44,250 --> 00:43:45,890 There's a window and there's actually. 856 00:43:46,010 --> 00:43:47,810 You can see where there used to be a door. 857 00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:50,620 That's been bricked over. 858 00:43:50,730 --> 00:43:54,370 And that would have been typical of the shotgun design to have a door. 859 00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:55,250 Like that? 860 00:43:55,850 --> 00:43:58,290 And we don't plan to restore the door, but. 861 00:43:58,690 --> 00:43:59,970 It's an interesting feature. 862 00:44:01,450 --> 00:44:01,770 OK. 863 00:44:03,530 --> 00:44:04,130 All right. Umm. 864 00:44:05,790 --> 00:44:07,180 And so you're going to remove. 865 00:44:07,980 --> 00:44:11,180 As the original brick wall still. 866 00:44:11,650 --> 00:44:13,010 And door still in that. 867 00:44:13,090 --> 00:44:16,460 Torched off area then where you're proposing to put in the window. 868 00:44:17,170 --> 00:44:18,250 So the. 869 00:44:19,050 --> 00:44:20,090 The brick wall. 870 00:44:20,370 --> 00:44:21,090 On the. 871 00:44:21,860 --> 00:44:24,060 West side of that porch is pretty much gone. 872 00:44:25,130 --> 00:44:26,530 It was opened up in the. 873 00:44:26,610 --> 00:44:27,930 The porch became a foyer. 874 00:44:28,050 --> 00:44:28,970 Into the house. 875 00:44:29,410 --> 00:44:32,050 So we'd have to restore that much of the brick wall. 876 00:44:32,290 --> 00:44:33,850 The brick wall that. 877 00:44:34,650 --> 00:44:38,010 That the rest of that brick wall on the West side is still there, but it's. 878 00:44:38,730 --> 00:44:40,210 It's now an interior wall. 879 00:44:40,410 --> 00:44:41,610 And that would stay the same. 880 00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:46,450 So it's part of the structure in the house essentially it's livable space at this point. 881 00:44:46,530 --> 00:44:49,090 Yeah, it's not like a mud room or something. 882 00:44:49,250 --> 00:44:50,490 No, no, OK. 883 00:44:51,850 --> 00:44:53,090 I've got a yeah, go ahead. 884 00:44:53,570 --> 00:44:57,250 A question as I look at the floor plan that you have here. 885 00:44:58,400 --> 00:44:59,160 What? 886 00:45:00,010 --> 00:45:02,370 What is existing and? 887 00:45:02,490 --> 00:45:03,970 What is new? 888 00:45:06,210 --> 00:45:07,660 I I can't tell what. 889 00:45:08,770 --> 00:45:13,410 Is there currently and what you're proposing to do we have the existing floor plan? 890 00:45:15,010 --> 00:45:17,530 Did you include that in your? I thought I did. 891 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:19,820 It might be the next page. 892 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:26,940 It's like a rectangle. Yeah, I guess not. 893 00:45:31,310 --> 00:45:33,020 I mean, yeah, basically it. 894 00:45:33,570 --> 00:45:36,050 If you yeah, if you cut off that. 895 00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:39,010 Yeah, like what you're doing with the mouse or that? 896 00:45:39,410 --> 00:45:40,810 That would be the existing. 897 00:45:41,770 --> 00:45:44,410 It's it's difficult to. 898 00:45:44,810 --> 00:45:46,170 Visualize it without. 899 00:45:46,570 --> 00:45:48,730 A diagram, but for me I'm. 900 00:45:49,010 --> 00:45:53,010 Yeah. Do you, Ron? Do you know when? 901 00:45:54,090 --> 00:45:56,130 Porch was added to the property. 902 00:45:56,690 --> 00:45:59,090 Well, the porch we believe was original, so we had a. 903 00:46:00,170 --> 00:46:01,210 Steve Cornell. 904 00:46:02,130 --> 00:46:02,890 Professor. 905 00:46:04,150 --> 00:46:05,100 Preservation. 906 00:46:05,290 --> 00:46:06,250 Architecture Ed. 907 00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:09,290 UVU, he came down, we paid him to come down and. 908 00:46:09,490 --> 00:46:13,250 Look at it, he's the one that actually figured out that that used to be a porch. 909 00:46:13,410 --> 00:46:15,050 And he said it's original. That would. 910 00:46:15,210 --> 00:46:16,370 That porch would have been. 911 00:46:16,730 --> 00:46:17,810 Originally there. 912 00:46:18,330 --> 00:46:21,330 And that roof section of roof over it was original. 913 00:46:22,610 --> 00:46:23,090 As well. 914 00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:27,500 So it kind of looks like it might have been an addition, but it actually was original. But it was. 915 00:46:27,810 --> 00:46:28,810 It was the porch. 916 00:46:29,490 --> 00:46:32,290 OK. And I apologize I misspoke so the. 917 00:46:32,490 --> 00:46:33,730 Livable space. 918 00:46:33,810 --> 00:46:35,810 Foyer that it is today. 919 00:46:36,450 --> 00:46:38,130 When did it convert from? 920 00:46:38,570 --> 00:46:39,570 Porch to that. 921 00:46:40,260 --> 00:46:41,180 We're not sure but. 922 00:46:41,530 --> 00:46:42,890 Probably the 1920s. 923 00:46:43,330 --> 00:46:45,690 OK, it was in the Casper family. 924 00:46:46,330 --> 00:46:49,130 The Casper family owned it till 1916. 925 00:46:49,210 --> 00:46:50,450 And then we have a picture. 926 00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:52,170 Yeah, that picture right there the. 927 00:46:52,290 --> 00:46:53,490 Pack my picture. 928 00:46:53,890 --> 00:46:57,770 Is from 1930 I think, so by then it had been done. 929 00:46:58,010 --> 00:46:58,530 That way. 930 00:46:59,420 --> 00:47:00,340 But enclosed. 931 00:47:03,650 --> 00:47:06,060 OK. Any other questions on the modification? 932 00:47:06,170 --> 00:47:07,330 Part so far. 933 00:47:08,730 --> 00:47:13,810 OK. And then if you want to now kind of delve into the use since you kind of brought up parking? 934 00:47:14,170 --> 00:47:19,490 As a Segway there if you want to touch on the the use and intent around that. 935 00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:20,130 OK. 936 00:47:21,730 --> 00:47:25,250 So I guess the the main question that was asked was how does this? 937 00:47:25,530 --> 00:47:27,290 How does the proposed use? 938 00:47:27,850 --> 00:47:28,810 Enhance. 939 00:47:29,490 --> 00:47:30,410 The Historic. 940 00:47:30,690 --> 00:47:31,730 Preservation, right? 941 00:47:34,130 --> 00:47:34,690 So. 942 00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:41,100 This application is only requesting antique shop. 943 00:47:41,490 --> 00:47:42,850 And the additional. 944 00:47:42,930 --> 00:47:43,890 Residential. 945 00:47:44,050 --> 00:47:45,850 Unit Additional. 946 00:47:46,010 --> 00:47:46,610 On the property. 947 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,400 Those two uses. 948 00:47:49,530 --> 00:47:52,250 Because that's the only thing that would be within the scope of. 949 00:47:52,610 --> 00:47:54,210 The Planning Commission's purview. 950 00:47:55,340 --> 00:47:58,580 But we are also at the same time talking to the city about. 951 00:47:59,170 --> 00:48:00,690 Donating the property. 952 00:48:01,490 --> 00:48:02,170 And. 953 00:48:06,010 --> 00:48:07,690 Museum A History Museum. 954 00:48:08,050 --> 00:48:10,700 So Holiday currently does not have a History Museum. 955 00:48:10,850 --> 00:48:13,410 I gave a few examples of nearby cities and how they've. 956 00:48:13,770 --> 00:48:14,450 Done that. 957 00:48:15,890 --> 00:48:19,530 And so really, the antique shop. 958 00:48:19,850 --> 00:48:22,810 Is meant to be ancillary to the museum. 959 00:48:24,490 --> 00:48:25,210 The. 960 00:48:26,490 --> 00:48:27,930 The Historical Commission. 961 00:48:28,810 --> 00:48:30,890 The thought that that would be a good idea. 962 00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:32,450 Because. 963 00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:35,020 Basically a relieve. 964 00:48:35,530 --> 00:48:36,650 The historical. 965 00:48:36,730 --> 00:48:41,810 Commission from the responsibility of providing docents and volunteers at the museum. 966 00:48:42,010 --> 00:48:42,650 Basically. 967 00:48:43,450 --> 00:48:47,170 The uh, merchant that is, uh, running the. 968 00:48:47,810 --> 00:48:49,050 Antique shop is a. 969 00:48:49,730 --> 00:48:50,770 Ancillary. 970 00:48:51,010 --> 00:48:52,250 Part of the museum would. 971 00:48:52,530 --> 00:48:53,370 Be able to. 972 00:48:53,810 --> 00:48:55,170 Beyond sight and then? 973 00:48:55,890 --> 00:48:57,530 Essentially manage that museum. 974 00:48:58,010 --> 00:49:00,250 So that that's that's the intent. 975 00:49:01,650 --> 00:49:03,650 We've done a little research about. 976 00:49:04,450 --> 00:49:05,850 The demand for antique. 977 00:49:06,730 --> 00:49:10,420 Shops. I went and visited the capital city. 978 00:49:10,530 --> 00:49:11,530 Antique Mall. 979 00:49:11,930 --> 00:49:12,690 It's on. 980 00:49:12,810 --> 00:49:14,690 About 9th South and. 981 00:49:14,890 --> 00:49:15,890 West Temple. 982 00:49:16,410 --> 00:49:18,530 I've been there for decades and I talked to the. 983 00:49:18,770 --> 00:49:19,410 The owner. 984 00:49:19,970 --> 00:49:22,610 It's this big mall with a sublease space. 985 00:49:23,010 --> 00:49:23,930 To dealers. 986 00:49:24,170 --> 00:49:28,130 And they said they've got a waiting list going back decades. You know, there's a high demand. 987 00:49:28,610 --> 00:49:29,610 For people wanting. 988 00:49:30,130 --> 00:49:32,610 Speech for antique, You know, antique, uh. 989 00:49:32,970 --> 00:49:34,210 To sell their antiques. 990 00:49:34,530 --> 00:49:36,530 So we think it won't be hard to find. 991 00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:38,370 Somebody who you know. 992 00:49:38,610 --> 00:49:39,690 Would like to do that. 993 00:49:42,050 --> 00:49:44,050 And like I said. 994 00:49:44,130 --> 00:49:44,810 It's not the. 995 00:49:44,930 --> 00:49:48,450 Primary use The primary goal would be for it to be a museum with the. 996 00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:51,170 Antique shop is kind of an add on to that. 997 00:49:51,330 --> 00:49:53,490 Both as a draw to the museum. 998 00:49:53,770 --> 00:49:55,250 And also the. 999 00:49:55,610 --> 00:49:58,570 Museum being a draw to the end, there's kind of a synergy. 1000 00:49:58,650 --> 00:50:00,250 Between museum and antique shop. 1001 00:50:01,930 --> 00:50:03,610 And that way it would. 1002 00:50:04,090 --> 00:50:06,130 Basically pay for itself as well. 1003 00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:08,530 Antique shops are pretty. 1004 00:50:10,330 --> 00:50:12,330 You know, they're pretty lucrative. 1005 00:50:12,730 --> 00:50:13,490 It turns out. 1006 00:50:13,770 --> 00:50:16,290 So it'd be a good source of income. 1007 00:50:17,370 --> 00:50:19,130 Maintain the museum, essentially. 1008 00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:24,260 And so in the diagram that we've been provided, I don't see a livable space. 1009 00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:27,180 If it's a shop in a museum. 1010 00:50:27,890 --> 00:50:28,770 And you want to. 1011 00:50:29,290 --> 00:50:31,170 Put an accessory building. 1012 00:50:31,690 --> 00:50:33,170 Adjacent to it. 1013 00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:37,890 So so the lot itself is like 12,000 square feet and this little. 1014 00:50:38,250 --> 00:50:39,450 House only takes up. 1015 00:50:39,530 --> 00:50:41,170 You know less than 1/3 of that. 1016 00:50:41,290 --> 00:50:42,890 So what we want to do is. 1017 00:50:43,210 --> 00:50:44,850 Build a residence. 1018 00:50:45,130 --> 00:50:46,020 Behind it. 1019 00:50:46,970 --> 00:50:48,050 As part of the PUD. 1020 00:50:49,650 --> 00:50:52,410 And as part of the. 1021 00:50:52,650 --> 00:50:55,820 PUD that currently has this designated as open space. 1022 00:50:56,050 --> 00:50:58,370 Or common space. Excuse me it. 1023 00:50:58,690 --> 00:51:01,050 Could be compensation, that's an option as well. 1024 00:51:01,970 --> 00:51:02,410 But. 1025 00:51:03,290 --> 00:51:07,770 Well, it is right, like the PUD that was approved and shovels hit dirt. 1026 00:51:08,170 --> 00:51:12,730 Have that listed as a common space currently. Is that right? No. 1027 00:51:12,930 --> 00:51:15,210 But you know the the. 1028 00:51:15,290 --> 00:51:16,490 It's basically. 1029 00:51:17,250 --> 00:51:19,610 It could be, so it's called this. 1030 00:51:20,330 --> 00:51:21,370 Lot is called Lot. 1031 00:51:21,450 --> 00:51:24,290 2A is essentially part of lot. 1032 00:51:26,770 --> 00:51:31,570 And we could put a common space easement there. 1033 00:51:31,890 --> 00:51:33,850 That's one possibility. We haven't done that yet. 1034 00:51:35,010 --> 00:51:37,570 Or it could just be used to enlarge lot 2. 1035 00:51:39,130 --> 00:51:40,290 Or it could be. 1036 00:51:40,970 --> 00:51:42,410 A separate lot, and that's what we'll. 1037 00:51:42,450 --> 00:51:43,620 Opposing that it actually be a. 1038 00:51:43,850 --> 00:51:44,650 A separate. 1039 00:51:47,410 --> 00:51:47,770 The. 1040 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:53,980 The question was asked now, how does this help? 1041 00:51:54,090 --> 00:51:54,810 The Historic. 1042 00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:56,860 Designation Room. 1043 00:51:56,970 --> 00:51:58,330 Preservation. 1044 00:51:58,490 --> 00:52:01,010 That's actually a pretty easy question to answer. 1045 00:52:01,810 --> 00:52:04,730 This property is right. 1046 00:52:06,290 --> 00:52:07,620 Of there's a lot. 1047 00:52:07,810 --> 00:52:10,050 Of historic bungalows. 1048 00:52:10,250 --> 00:52:12,810 Going down Clearview and then. 1049 00:52:13,170 --> 00:52:13,970 To the South. 1050 00:52:14,810 --> 00:52:16,370 Kentucky Ave. 1051 00:52:16,610 --> 00:52:19,490 There's, there's all these early 1900s. 1052 00:52:20,690 --> 00:52:21,490 Bungalows. 1053 00:52:21,570 --> 00:52:22,290 Basically. 1054 00:52:23,690 --> 00:52:29,770 And so we're trying to be compatible with that and kind of preserve that same ambiance. 1055 00:52:29,970 --> 00:52:32,810 With our with our PUD so. 1056 00:52:34,090 --> 00:52:37,770 And and also on the. 1057 00:52:38,610 --> 00:52:40,210 On the north side there's a. 1058 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:41,900 I don't know if you've. 1059 00:52:42,050 --> 00:52:45,450 Well, visited the area but there's there's like a yellow house. 1060 00:52:45,850 --> 00:52:47,290 That's a bungalow. 1061 00:52:48,610 --> 00:52:49,330 And then there's. 1062 00:52:49,690 --> 00:52:51,050 Two on the. 1063 00:52:52,650 --> 00:52:56,130 Between our property and Clearview, there's two more bungalows. 1064 00:52:56,330 --> 00:52:58,770 And then like I say, going down, Clearview going down. 1065 00:52:59,970 --> 00:53:01,850 You know Kentucky. 1066 00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:03,130 There's all these. 1067 00:53:03,610 --> 00:53:05,610 Early 1900s bungalows. 1068 00:53:05,850 --> 00:53:06,370 So, uh. 1069 00:53:07,710 --> 00:53:10,020 Our intent all along has been to try to. 1070 00:53:10,170 --> 00:53:11,570 Match that same. 1071 00:53:11,650 --> 00:53:13,610 Style and. 1072 00:53:16,050 --> 00:53:19,850 Both the size and the character of those bungalows. 1073 00:53:20,290 --> 00:53:25,370 So the reason we want to have a third unit. 1074 00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:29,050 The 3rd house is so that they can be smaller. 1075 00:53:29,290 --> 00:53:31,090 Bungalow style homes. 1076 00:53:31,810 --> 00:53:33,530 If if we're unable to do that. 1077 00:53:33,890 --> 00:53:34,930 Then we'll. 1078 00:53:35,130 --> 00:53:35,930 Have to build. 1079 00:53:36,010 --> 00:53:37,930 Two homes that will be much larger. 1080 00:53:38,410 --> 00:53:41,250 And really not compatible with the historic. 1081 00:53:41,890 --> 00:53:43,250 The district that we're. 1082 00:53:43,370 --> 00:53:44,970 Demands so that's the reason. 1083 00:53:46,290 --> 00:53:48,890 Also that the open space has been a. 1084 00:53:49,770 --> 00:53:56,420 The goal from the very beginning as well, the historic preservation kind of came along later as we became more aware. 1085 00:53:56,650 --> 00:53:58,370 Of the significance of the. 1086 00:53:58,730 --> 00:54:00,290 Of the of the. 1087 00:54:00,650 --> 00:54:01,730 And did you know? 1088 00:54:02,290 --> 00:54:03,970 Paid for some research to. 1089 00:54:04,370 --> 00:54:05,930 You know, learn about the history. 1090 00:54:06,050 --> 00:54:06,650 And so. 1091 00:54:08,330 --> 00:54:09,610 Preserving that, you know. 1092 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:11,960 Became part of the art. 1093 00:54:12,370 --> 00:54:13,610 Goal basically. 1094 00:54:14,130 --> 00:54:16,730 There's basically 3 aims that we have. 1095 00:54:18,350 --> 00:54:21,470 One is matching that. 1096 00:54:21,610 --> 00:54:23,210 District that bungalow district. 1097 00:54:23,850 --> 00:54:26,850 #2 it sit, it straddles. 1098 00:54:27,330 --> 00:54:28,650 The high density. 1099 00:54:29,130 --> 00:54:30,610 Multi family. 1100 00:54:30,690 --> 00:54:32,090 Village Zone. 1101 00:54:32,250 --> 00:54:32,970 And then? 1102 00:54:33,090 --> 00:54:36,330 On the other side you have the R110 low density. 1103 00:54:37,090 --> 00:54:39,050 Residential zone going eastward. 1104 00:54:39,410 --> 00:54:42,890 This is straddling what's called the medium density district. 1105 00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:45,280 So we're trying to provide a. 1106 00:54:45,650 --> 00:54:47,730 Transitional buffer between. 1107 00:54:47,970 --> 00:54:50,290 High density multi family commercial. 1108 00:54:50,690 --> 00:54:51,370 And. 1109 00:54:51,530 --> 00:54:52,690 Low density. 1110 00:54:52,770 --> 00:54:53,890 Single family. 1111 00:54:54,010 --> 00:54:55,290 Detached SO. 1112 00:54:56,050 --> 00:54:57,610 These homes will have the. 1113 00:54:58,210 --> 00:55:00,290 Character of single family detached. 1114 00:55:00,690 --> 00:55:04,370 But kind of a medium density, right? So a medium. 1115 00:55:04,850 --> 00:55:08,020 Density between the very high density and the very low density. 1116 00:55:08,650 --> 00:55:11,770 Providing that transition both in density and character. 1117 00:55:12,620 --> 00:55:13,260 And that's. 1118 00:55:13,330 --> 00:55:13,970 That's the. 1119 00:55:14,650 --> 00:55:16,530 Kind of the vision of what we're trying to do. 1120 00:55:16,850 --> 00:55:18,170 With the whole PUD. 1121 00:55:18,610 --> 00:55:19,650 And in particular. 1122 00:55:20,690 --> 00:55:21,770 You know we want this. 1123 00:55:21,970 --> 00:55:23,930 Home to match that. 1124 00:55:27,470 --> 00:55:28,140 Environment. 1125 00:55:29,510 --> 00:55:32,710 OK. Any other questions for the applicant? 1126 00:55:32,850 --> 00:55:33,970 Before we open the public. 1127 00:55:35,470 --> 00:55:36,700 Great. We'll go ahead and have you. 1128 00:55:36,770 --> 00:55:37,180 Thank you. 1129 00:55:37,250 --> 00:55:37,690 Thank you. 1130 00:55:39,850 --> 00:55:40,450 All right. 1131 00:55:43,370 --> 00:55:46,050 Same as before when we opened the public hearing. 1132 00:55:46,450 --> 00:55:48,370 We'd ask that you keep your comments too. 1133 00:55:48,770 --> 00:55:51,490 3 minutes or less. Try not to reiterate comments that have made. 1134 00:55:51,890 --> 00:55:58,770 Or points that have been made in prior comments and when you start, please provide your name and address for the public record. 1135 00:55:58,930 --> 00:56:01,290 And with that, we'll go ahead and open the public hearing. 1136 00:56:06,730 --> 00:56:10,330 Hi, I'm Kim Duffy, 2195 Walker Lane. 1137 00:56:10,770 --> 00:56:15,010 I'm making these comments as a resident and not in any official capacity. 1138 00:56:15,610 --> 00:56:17,810 I'm reading comments from Marty Bradley. 1139 00:56:18,210 --> 00:56:19,770 Also resident of Holiday. 1140 00:56:20,430 --> 00:56:22,220 She is professor emeritus. 1141 00:56:22,290 --> 00:56:24,850 University of Utah School of Architecture. 1142 00:56:25,210 --> 00:56:26,130 She could not hear. 1143 00:56:26,250 --> 00:56:29,130 Be here tonight and we agreed on these comments. 1144 00:56:30,910 --> 00:56:32,220 While we supported. 1145 00:56:33,030 --> 00:56:34,380 Even championed. 1146 00:56:34,730 --> 00:56:40,090 Ron Hilton's proposed Casper House nomination for the holiday historic site designation. 1147 00:56:40,330 --> 00:56:42,450 We oppose the current proposal. 1148 00:56:42,530 --> 00:56:44,450 Which includes the proposed addition. 1149 00:56:45,170 --> 00:56:46,970 The addition does not meet the National. 1150 00:56:47,130 --> 00:56:49,450 Nationally accepted definitions of a. 1151 00:56:49,690 --> 00:56:52,970 Compatible Edition. The definition is as follows. 1152 00:56:53,830 --> 00:56:58,390 Quote compatible additions to historic buildings must be subordinate. 1153 00:56:59,240 --> 00:57:00,660 To the original structure. 1154 00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,340 Using a differentiation and compatibility approach. 1155 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:08,380 New editions should be smaller. 1156 00:57:08,490 --> 00:57:09,570 And scale. 1157 00:57:09,810 --> 00:57:12,090 Set back from the primary facade. 1158 00:57:12,450 --> 00:57:14,290 Usually located at the rear. 1159 00:57:14,370 --> 00:57:15,330 And utilize. 1160 00:57:15,530 --> 00:57:17,090 Materials that echo. 1161 00:57:17,370 --> 00:57:18,130 But don't. 1162 00:57:18,290 --> 00:57:20,330 Perfectly replicate the original. 1163 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:25,180 Key principles include maintaining historic integrity. 1164 00:57:25,410 --> 00:57:27,770 Ensuring reversibility and using. 1165 00:57:28,370 --> 00:57:30,730 A-OR connector to separate. 1166 00:57:30,810 --> 00:57:32,220 The new from the old. 1167 00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:33,410 End Quote. 1168 00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:43,340 We, and I'm continuing on with Marty Bradleys comments, we respect Hiltons willingness to save an historic project. 1169 00:57:43,610 --> 00:57:50,330 But we believe the proposed addition goes above and beyond the acceptable definition of compatible additions. 1170 00:57:50,770 --> 00:57:52,290 The addition's roofline. 1171 00:57:52,370 --> 00:57:54,610 Which matches the original structure. 1172 00:57:54,770 --> 00:57:56,130 Suggests the addition. 1173 00:57:56,570 --> 00:57:57,530 Is original. 1174 00:57:57,610 --> 00:57:58,650 Which it is not. 1175 00:57:58,890 --> 00:58:01,980 The scale is larger than the original structure. 1176 00:58:02,410 --> 00:58:04,650 Itself and is not set back. 1177 00:58:04,730 --> 00:58:06,290 From the primary facade. 1178 00:58:06,610 --> 00:58:07,490 But suggests. 1179 00:58:07,690 --> 00:58:10,050 It is original to the primary facade. 1180 00:58:10,570 --> 00:58:12,290 Proposing the same material. 1181 00:58:12,730 --> 00:58:14,330 Continues this deceit. 1182 00:58:15,530 --> 00:58:18,330 Moreover, Hilton's thoughtful but misguided. 1183 00:58:18,450 --> 00:58:20,570 Description of why this is OK. 1184 00:58:21,170 --> 00:58:23,090 What we might call the good enough. 1185 00:58:23,570 --> 00:58:27,170 Theory of historic preservation is not good enough. 1186 00:58:28,020 --> 00:58:29,660 It creates the illusion. 1187 00:58:29,770 --> 00:58:30,930 Of Histori. 1188 00:58:31,370 --> 00:58:33,810 But not accuracy or fidelity. 1189 00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:35,250 To the original structure. 1190 00:58:36,010 --> 00:58:38,210 Again, while we respect Hilton's effort. 1191 00:58:38,450 --> 00:58:40,650 This proposed addition violates. 1192 00:58:41,420 --> 00:58:42,620 Pretty much every. 1193 00:58:43,250 --> 00:58:46,570 Element of accepted compatible additions and therefore. 1194 00:58:46,810 --> 00:58:47,650 We oppose it. 1195 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:49,380 Thank you. 1196 00:59:04,990 --> 00:59:07,620 Good evening, Roger Reece, 4685 Grosvenor. 1197 00:59:07,730 --> 00:59:11,570 Port so interesting to hear. 1198 00:59:11,650 --> 00:59:16,090 The ruminations on the historic value of the. 1199 00:59:16,170 --> 00:59:17,170 Cottage. 1200 00:59:17,290 --> 00:59:20,410 Given that at one point it was going to be a 7000 foot. 1201 00:59:20,690 --> 00:59:22,930 Square townhome on the same property. 1202 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:25,980 In another iteration, it was going to be. 1203 00:59:26,730 --> 00:59:28,090 A clubhouse for the PUD. 1204 00:59:28,810 --> 00:59:29,490 And now? 1205 00:59:29,770 --> 00:59:31,610 We've got historic value. 1206 00:59:32,130 --> 00:59:33,650 Being talked about. 1207 00:59:34,050 --> 00:59:35,450 Prior speaker spoke to that. 1208 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:40,700 It's almost as if I'm sure that's not the case. 1209 00:59:40,810 --> 00:59:45,250 There's some sort of a loophole with the historic preservation that allows a certain. 1210 00:59:45,330 --> 00:59:46,170 Consideration. 1211 00:59:46,370 --> 00:59:47,850 For different zoning because of it. 1212 00:59:48,210 --> 00:59:49,930 But I'm not that skeptical. 1213 00:59:50,050 --> 00:59:51,460 There are some contradictions though. 1214 00:59:54,150 --> 00:59:59,420 In the document that we've been reviewing, it's been on the on the display right now. Our aim all along. 1215 00:59:59,530 --> 01:00:05,290 Has been to provide a transitional buffer in both density and character between these very different. 1216 01:00:05,450 --> 01:00:06,850 Districts on either side. 1217 01:00:06,930 --> 01:00:09,730 Also, part of our vision from the very start was to provide. 1218 01:00:10,130 --> 01:00:11,570 Some open green space. 1219 01:00:11,810 --> 01:00:12,890 As a public amenity. 1220 01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,500 I'm not sure if that is the role of any given property owner. 1221 01:00:18,610 --> 01:00:19,970 To make the decision on. 1222 01:00:20,130 --> 01:00:21,770 Providing buffers. 1223 01:00:23,140 --> 01:00:25,220 We have a 938 square foot. 1224 01:00:25,410 --> 01:00:26,210 Building. 1225 01:00:26,570 --> 01:00:27,930 That is going to be. 1226 01:00:28,090 --> 01:00:30,130 A museum and an antique store. 1227 01:00:30,410 --> 01:00:32,410 I believe I heard that the transcript will. 1228 01:00:32,810 --> 01:00:33,810 Be accurate. 1229 01:00:33,930 --> 01:00:39,010 That it would help support the museum, so therefore is the antique store and nonprofit. 1230 01:00:39,250 --> 01:00:39,810 Unclear. 1231 01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:41,640 Next. 1232 01:00:42,610 --> 01:00:45,370 The nearest parking is just the limited street parking. 1233 01:00:45,450 --> 01:00:46,730 From this very same document. 1234 01:00:46,970 --> 01:00:47,810 There's no sidewalk. 1235 01:00:47,850 --> 01:00:48,860 There's no street parking. 1236 01:00:49,490 --> 01:00:51,010 OK, but it would have. 1237 01:00:51,130 --> 01:00:57,900 Low impact on the neighborhood. It goes on to say not continue to not contiguous, but in later in the document. 1238 01:00:58,330 --> 01:01:00,690 Serving mostly a small walk in clientele. 1239 01:01:01,250 --> 01:01:02,890 All right. So we don't have too much. 1240 01:01:03,050 --> 01:01:03,930 To worry about there. 1241 01:01:04,050 --> 01:01:04,690 But yet. 1242 01:01:05,810 --> 01:01:06,650 We talk about. 1243 01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:12,320 The need for the robust business of antiques. 1244 01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:16,200 And then to quote. So the bottom line is that there will be plenty of demand. 1245 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:16,920 For both. 1246 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:18,320 The space in Holiday. 1247 01:01:19,270 --> 01:01:20,010 So what is? 1248 01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:20,720 Is it? 1249 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,760 Going to be a robust business or is it going to have no impact? 1250 01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:25,400 That seems like a contradiction. 1251 01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:26,440 Correct me if I'm wrong. 1252 01:01:27,910 --> 01:01:29,870 Finally, alternatively. 1253 01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,040 The entire parcel could be used for the neighborhood park. 1254 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,600 Similar to other pocket parks around the city. 1255 01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:36,920 In that case. 1256 01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:38,200 We would ask the city to. 1257 01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,160 Bear the cost. 1258 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:41,560 Of extending. 1259 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,480 The private lane and utilities. 1260 01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:49,640 To service the remaining lots behind the park and to maintain. 1261 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,560 It as a public Rd. going. 1262 01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:57,320 Forward to help offset the loss of the additional dwelling unit. 1263 01:01:58,990 --> 01:02:00,930 To my mind, that sounds like. 1264 01:02:01,160 --> 01:02:02,800 A private property owner. 1265 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,240 Foreseeing some expenses. 1266 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:08,160 Moving that to the city, the utility of. 1267 01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:09,480 Private park. 1268 01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:10,520 Unclear. 1269 01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:11,840 Unclear. 1270 01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:13,840 The cost to the city? 1271 01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:14,920 Very clear. 1272 01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:16,000 Very clear. 1273 01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:18,690 I don't see the viability of this project. 1274 01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:21,200 I don't see how it enhances the neighborhood. 1275 01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:23,760 I see how it detracts from the neighborhood. 1276 01:02:24,660 --> 01:02:25,580 The building itself. 1277 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:28,000 If it was to be restored. 1278 01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,040 That's for other. 1279 01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,360 Expertise like the the prior speaker and and the professor she quoted. 1280 01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:35,560 This is not a viable project. 1281 01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:37,240 This is not a Bible project. 1282 01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:38,760 And this is not something that. 1283 01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:40,090 Makes sense for the city, you know. 1284 01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,760 It's up to this Commission and and elected leaders to decide with that transition. 1285 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:45,760 Thank you. 1286 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:46,440 Thank you. 1287 01:02:57,270 --> 01:02:59,490 My name My name is Clark Richards. 1288 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:01,520 I live at 2470. 1289 01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:03,120 Kentucky Ave. 1290 01:03:03,760 --> 01:03:03,880 Umm. 1291 01:03:07,870 --> 01:03:11,090 Mr. Pilm's proposals are not a good idea. 1292 01:03:12,750 --> 01:03:15,970 Nor is it the first time that Mister Hilton has adapt. 1293 01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:17,720 Attempted to lobby the city. 1294 01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:19,960 Into supporting his. 1295 01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:21,480 Personal agenda. 1296 01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,000 His agenda being to. 1297 01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:28,720 Engineering the city into allowing him to build more than. 1298 01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:31,400 R10R110 allows. 1299 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:33,520 He has asked permission. 1300 01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:34,720 Or. 1301 01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,200 And that would be two lots. 1302 01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:38,840 On. 1303 01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,240 Two dwellings on 2 locks. 1304 01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:43,400 What he's talking about. 1305 01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:44,440 Is. 1306 01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:47,240 He's talking about 3 dwellings. 1307 01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:48,960 And three different lots. 1308 01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:53,760 I understand one would be is on the historical register of holiday. 1309 01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:54,720 And then he wants. 1310 01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:56,680 What he calls a residential. 1311 01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:01,800 Another residential dwelling or house and then one behind that. That's a total of 3. 1312 01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:02,880 That's not what the. 1313 01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:04,120 Property calls for. 1314 01:04:08,020 --> 01:04:08,820 He wants a. 1315 01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:10,280 Conditional, uh. 1316 01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,280 Use permit allowing him to make changes. 1317 01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,440 And an open antique shop. 1318 01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:16,440 And. 1319 01:04:16,560 --> 01:04:18,680 To construct a new residential. 1320 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:20,560 Dwelling, yet I mentioned that. 1321 01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:21,960 I have. 1322 01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:24,650 I have I have several concerns. 1323 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:25,880 1 is. 1324 01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:27,680 As mentioned before, does it. 1325 01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:31,880 Does it fit in with the character of their neighborhood? I don't believe it does. 1326 01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,200 Is it going to be? Is there? 1327 01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:37,320 Is is there going to be adequate parking? 1328 01:04:37,440 --> 01:04:41,240 This is a business within has been mentioned before, a PUD. 1329 01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:43,280 And businesses need. 1330 01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,570 Parking, parking issue is going to it's going to be on the city. 1331 01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,520 Which means it's going to be on the street. 1332 01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:52,640 Which means we're going to have to narrow Murray Holiday Rd. 1333 01:04:52,880 --> 01:05:01,320 And and and and potentially make it less safe than it is now. I, I just, I just really struggling with the whole concept here. 1334 01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,800 And and I'm just speaking for what? 1335 01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,280 What I believe my my neighbors. 1336 01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:12,680 Would be in agreement with I. I feel that the codes. 1337 01:05:12,800 --> 01:05:13,600 And laws. 1338 01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:14,960 For. 1339 01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:16,560 For a reason. 1340 01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:17,920 And that we need to. 1341 01:05:18,080 --> 01:05:23,440 We need to hold the line. What I'm seeing Mr. Hilt do is he's want wanting to maneuver it. 1342 01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:25,840 Maneuver that the city. 1343 01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:27,320 Into meeting his needs. 1344 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:29,920 It is. 1345 01:05:31,170 --> 01:05:31,930 It is what? 1346 01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,120 I don't believe this proposal is good for the residents. 1347 01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,920 Again, I mentioned I mentioned the on street parking. 1348 01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,240 The businesses need deliveries. 1349 01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,680 And for delivery trucks to get in and out. 1350 01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:49,840 Is going to be a problem. 1351 01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:53,080 And I think that's going to create a safety issue. 1352 01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:53,760 Umm. 1353 01:05:58,770 --> 01:05:59,650 One other thing. 1354 01:06:04,670 --> 01:06:06,070 I don't know. 1355 01:06:09,850 --> 01:06:11,730 I I just don't. 1356 01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:12,760 I just don't. 1357 01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:13,960 Trust what he's. 1358 01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:16,480 What he's asking this city to do. 1359 01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:18,400 Because I think based on. 1360 01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:19,520 His history. 1361 01:06:19,720 --> 01:06:21,280 Wanting to get 3 lots. 1362 01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:24,240 33 lots out of that. 1363 01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:25,000 Property. 1364 01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,880 It sounds like it's that's the direction it's going to be going. 1365 01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:30,440 This time and I just. 1366 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:31,520 I think it's under a. 1367 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,480 Different scenario, but I can see where it where it's headed. 1368 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:38,290 If this business doesn't go. 1369 01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:39,400 Could he come? 1370 01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:42,640 For a conditional use permit and asked to. 1371 01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:47,800 Uh, tear it down and build another house? House. Or could he ask for a conditional use permit? 1372 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,040 And and and say I would like to turn this into a. 1373 01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:55,160 Home instead of a business. So I'm saying, where do we draw the line? 1374 01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,960 And I just, I just struggled with it with this whole concept anyway. 1375 01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,160 I really appreciate your serving. 1376 01:07:02,400 --> 01:07:03,200 Thank you. 1377 01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:04,480 Thank you. Thank you. 1378 01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:05,960 Thank you. 1379 01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:12,730 I Commissioner Roger Lakeway, Our sound system is having a hard time picking up sound. 1380 01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:14,880 So when you're speaking to your comment. 1381 01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:17,600 Talk close to the microphone. 1382 01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:20,640 Or talk loudly so that we can make sure to get. 1383 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:22,120 Everything recorded. 1384 01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:24,770 OK, Duly noted. Thank you. 1385 01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:26,480 I mean, thank you. 1386 01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,200 All right. Were there any other comments at this time? 1387 01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,960 Hello, my name is Alicia Reese. I'm at 4685. 1388 01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:47,400 Kristoff Rosner Court as well. 1389 01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:53,090 I want to add a little bit to some of the comments that were made, especially in relation to the parking. 1390 01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,090 I don't know if you're familiar with that street, but that side of the street that. 1391 01:07:56,400 --> 01:07:59,680 Mr. Hilton is talking about is where the utility poles go up. 1392 01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:02,000 There's a brand, there's no room for parking. 1393 01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:03,400 If it were to be a business. 1394 01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:07,680 I can foresee that people would park there on that street and to what the others? 1395 01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:09,160 Have spoke about it would. 1396 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:10,600 Create an additional hazard. 1397 01:08:11,660 --> 01:08:14,010 I can tell you many times being on that street. 1398 01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,000 It seems like anybody that hits the light, they're. 1399 01:08:17,080 --> 01:08:21,280 Marie Holiday and coming up that street where they're turning the corner trying to get across later. What? 1400 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:22,800 They seen this try to get from. 1401 01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:25,080 Zero to 60 as fast as they can. 1402 01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:27,280 Up to where a holiday rose starts. 1403 01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:29,400 So I think that's an additional hazard. 1404 01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:34,560 I can see a lot of improvement that the city would need to make if they take on the responsibility that. 1405 01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:36,160 Mr. Hilton has. 1406 01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:38,480 Has mentioned on maintain Rd. is. 1407 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,440 That would not be an ADA compliant property. 1408 01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:43,920 You would have to have parking. You would have to have Rams. 1409 01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,320 You would have a lot of infrastructure. It's not currently there. 1410 01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:48,920 Saying. 1411 01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:50,760 He wants the city to. 1412 01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:52,520 As part of the agreement to. 1413 01:08:52,640 --> 01:08:55,480 Take on this this road you would be. 1414 01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:57,290 Potentially responsible for that. 1415 01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:00,970 There was one part in the proposal that was kind of confusing to me. 1416 01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:05,160 Where you lose that this is kind of what I would call proof of a concept that we could take. 1417 01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:07,360 The castle house that's already in the park. 1418 01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:08,640 And make it museum. 1419 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,000 I think if the city really has that intent. 1420 01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:12,880 That is something you could do without. 1421 01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:14,760 Using this as a proof of concept. 1422 01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,280 And as others have said, Mr. Hilton has tried to use this property. 1423 01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:22,200 In many different ways, he's had a few different presentations in front of the committee. 1424 01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:23,000 Before, umm. 1425 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:24,720 One of them was when I first. 1426 01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:26,400 Moved into the Holiday Rd. 1427 01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:27,960 It was this big. 1428 01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:30,600 I forget how many square feet. 1429 01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:32,800 Property that would just go all the way down like. 1430 01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,800 A $1.5 million property, 7000 or more square feet. 1431 01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:38,400 So he never has. 1432 01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:39,480 In my opinion. 1433 01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,120 Had an intent on maintaining and preserving. 1434 01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:42,800 That is. 1435 01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:48,640 He also has the property that he across the street from that. 1436 01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:50,080 Where he tried to use that. 1437 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:54,040 To make it to where you could get more density into that and if you look at those buildings. 1438 01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:55,080 They're not. 1439 01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:56,240 What I would call. 1440 01:09:56,360 --> 01:09:57,840 In the spirit of. 1441 01:09:58,520 --> 01:09:59,800 A cottage, kind of. 1442 01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:00,880 Community. 1443 01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:03,640 So I feel like he's. 1444 01:10:04,490 --> 01:10:09,610 As the other gentleman said, is always looking for an angle to try to get what he wants from that property. 1445 01:10:09,840 --> 01:10:12,120 And what he might want to do in the future. 1446 01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,040 So those are the comments that I would make and thank you very much. 1447 01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:15,720 Thank you. 1448 01:10:23,180 --> 01:10:26,650 Hi, I'm Denise Cecil and I live at 4673. 1449 01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:29,440 South Halley Pines Court, so I'm in the. 1450 01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:30,680 Smaller. 1451 01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:34,160 Duplexes that are just West of. 1452 01:10:34,660 --> 01:10:35,530 That property. 1453 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:42,080 So I appreciate the historic value of that house. I've been inside the house. There's a lot to think about in terms of that, but. 1454 01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:45,660 Really just want to reiterate what's said about the park, about the parking and what that road is really like for those of us that 1455 01:10:45,660 --> 01:10:49,000 live on that. 1456 01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,120 When I first read the proposal, it says the following. It says. 1457 01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,200 The shop is intended to. 1458 01:10:56,240 --> 01:10:57,440 Serve limited. 1459 01:10:57,560 --> 01:10:59,760 Foot traffic only. 1460 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:06,080 There will be no formal advertising unless the city chooses to highlight it as part of the Holiday Village experience. 1461 01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:09,880 And then it goes on again to say in the proposal that. 1462 01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,840 The neighbors would be opposed to additional parking anyway. 1463 01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,560 So I just don't like the others. Again, want to reiterate, I don't understand. It's already very. 1464 01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:21,970 Unsafe there. It's unsafe because we have so many kids out there. 1465 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,320 Coming and going from school and we can't see you to get out of there. 1466 01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:28,560 I just don't know where they're gonna park and how that could possibly. 1467 01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:29,680 Work so. 1468 01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:30,680 Other than that. 1469 01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:32,160 Thank you. Thank you. 1470 01:11:36,510 --> 01:11:38,810 OK, any other comments at this time? 1471 01:11:40,670 --> 01:11:41,710 Don't worry, I'll get to you. 1472 01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:46,080 OK. Well, with that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing and. 1473 01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:47,320 Commissioner Roach. 1474 01:11:47,720 --> 01:11:49,640 You need to read in the comment. 1475 01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:55,520 Open. That's right. I do have the third one, a couple of emails here. 1476 01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:57,400 The first one is just a. 1477 01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:01,130 Address that was being added to a comment that was in the packet. 1478 01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:02,400 So we have that record. 1479 01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:06,320 The middle one was from Miss Cecil, who just spoke. I think her. 1480 01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:07,240 Her comment was. 1481 01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:11,760 Little bit more lengthy and printed format if you wanted to highlight anything else from that. 1482 01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:18,120 And then the third comment was one that was received over the weekend. So the third comment was not included in the packet. 1483 01:12:18,200 --> 01:12:19,120 From Overmo. 1484 01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:20,360 Yes, OK. 1485 01:12:21,300 --> 01:12:23,300 And for the previous. 1486 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:24,280 Comment. 1487 01:12:25,480 --> 01:12:27,440 Comment in printed form there's. 1488 01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,400 Four points highlighted I believe here. 1489 01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:32,970 About compatibility. 1490 01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:33,960 Parking umm. 1491 01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:35,800 Driveways. 1492 01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:37,640 Lighting, lighting. 1493 01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:46,520 Yeah, when the traffic impacts. 1494 01:12:47,160 --> 01:12:52,880 OK. And then the e-mail that was received over the weekend from Sandy Overmo. 1495 01:12:54,770 --> 01:12:58,050 Which also lives in the Hadley. 1496 01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:01,010 Hines townhouse development directly West. 1497 01:13:05,820 --> 01:13:08,890 Fears that it will affect development of larger properties. 1498 01:13:11,540 --> 01:13:13,770 Said in its current condition, the. 1499 01:13:13,920 --> 01:13:16,400 Casper Cottage is unattractive and. 1500 01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:20,760 Potential detriment to the sale of the two buildings on the parcel. 1501 01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:24,800 Even if the cottage is renovated, it'll be difficult to sell those lots. 1502 01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,840 When they bought, they thought the message. 1503 01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:34,200 The messiness on the adjacent lot would be taken care of in a reasonable time frame. 1504 01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:36,320 But it's been almost three years. 1505 01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:40,920 Back lot was still being used to store commercial trucks. 1506 01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:52,080 And they don't like the aspect of it being a museum or any type of commercial property that avoids increased traffic noise. 1507 01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:54,640 And pressure for street parking. 1508 01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:56,360 And it sets up the. 1509 01:13:56,440 --> 01:14:00,400 Precedent for others to apply for more commercial businesses in the area. 1510 01:14:03,490 --> 01:14:06,490 OK, so there's all our comments. 1511 01:14:08,230 --> 01:14:10,170 And with that. 1512 01:14:10,360 --> 01:14:12,240 Now I'll close the public hearing. Thank you. 1513 01:14:13,130 --> 01:14:14,410 Miss Marsh and. 1514 01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:16,800 Run, we will afford you. 1515 01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,120 A hole up to 5 minutes. 1516 01:14:19,680 --> 01:14:20,840 If you want to. 1517 01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,120 Respond to any of the comments made. 1518 01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,640 If not, you do not have to at this time. That is your choice. 1519 01:14:34,580 --> 01:14:35,700 Yeah, I'd like to just. 1520 01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:37,280 Respond to a few of the. 1521 01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:38,440 Points that were made. 1522 01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:42,160 So the. 1523 01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,880 The two versus 3 lots. 1524 01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:47,560 Question as you know. 1525 01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:49,240 As rightly said. 1526 01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:50,560 Before. 1527 01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:54,480 We originally actually. 1528 01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,850 Sought to rezone the. 1529 01:14:58,000 --> 01:14:58,880 Property. 1530 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,160 And have a 5 or 6. 1531 01:15:01,970 --> 01:15:03,410 Unit, you know, single fan. 1532 01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:04,880 Family homes. 1533 01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:06,320 In this space. 1534 01:15:06,960 --> 01:15:07,920 Not counting the. 1535 01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:09,840 Northside of Murray Holiday Rd. 1536 01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:13,520 That was not approved. 1537 01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:15,040 And in retrospect, I. 1538 01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:18,760 I believe that was the right decision. That would have been too much density. 1539 01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:22,920 So we have evolved. 1540 01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:24,680 And what we're trying to do and. 1541 01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:28,080 And what we were actually building is about half the density of. 1542 01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:29,880 What we originally had in mind. 1543 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:39,050 The question about, well, you know, in the past we've talked about having two much larger. 1544 01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:41,320 Holmes versus 3 smaller homes. 1545 01:15:41,440 --> 01:15:42,360 That's very true. 1546 01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:45,680 Where we originally. 1547 01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:48,680 Thought that there would be it's. 1548 01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:51,640 You know it's R10R1. 1549 01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:53,880 R110 So 10,000. 1550 01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:56,000 And it just falls just like. 1551 01:15:56,750 --> 01:15:57,770 You know several 100. 1552 01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:02,240 The square feet shy of that, so you know it's not quite large enough for three. 1553 01:16:02,360 --> 01:16:04,800 All right. And so. 1554 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,890 That's why if it was only two homes, they would in fact. 1555 01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,400 The significantly larger lots, significantly larger homes. 1556 01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:13,240 That is just the way it would be. 1557 01:16:14,600 --> 01:16:17,000 When we were able to require the North. 1558 01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:18,400 Part across the street. 1559 01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:21,530 That did open the possibility. 1560 01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:24,680 Of because of the. 1561 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:26,000 PUD you can. 1562 01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:28,640 Equalize lot sizes and so. 1563 01:16:29,000 --> 01:16:29,960 The Northside. 1564 01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:31,840 Could have actually had five units. 1565 01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,240 And the South too. So our proposal was. 1566 01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:36,960 Four and three keeping it up. 1567 01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:38,000 At the same. 1568 01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:40,600 Density of seven. 1569 01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:44,280 But that was. 1570 01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:46,520 You know, not approved. 1571 01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:54,040 It although we had two written opinions from attorneys saying that it should have been approved. 1572 01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:56,240 But you know, that's water under the bridge, so. 1573 01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:57,440 I guess what I'm saying is. 1574 01:16:57,800 --> 01:16:59,320 I hope you'll consider this. 1575 01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:01,280 On its own merits. 1576 01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:03,520 You know, consider the present application. 1577 01:17:03,640 --> 01:17:04,840 If you do, look at. 1578 01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:06,800 Back in history about. 1579 01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:08,360 You know what we've done in the past. 1580 01:17:09,130 --> 01:17:10,770 I think that works in our favor. 1581 01:17:12,770 --> 01:17:14,450 Because we. 1582 01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,360 We were essentially our entitlement. 1583 01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:22,840 Was was taken. 1584 01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:24,410 And we missed the. 1585 01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:25,640 Deal Deadline 2. 1586 01:17:26,440 --> 01:17:30,360 To try and get that entitlement, but. 1587 01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:33,000 Anyway that like I said, that's water under the bridge. 1588 01:17:33,160 --> 01:17:34,680 You don't have to consider that. 1589 01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:39,400 But I hope you know if you do, you won't consider. 1590 01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:42,080 You know, hold it against us, right there were. 1591 01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,520 That we found another way to achieve. 1592 01:17:45,960 --> 01:17:47,440 The same thing that we should have. 1593 01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:49,440 Basically been granted in the past. 1594 01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:55,560 But as far as the other question was. 1595 01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:59,240 How do you disable that? There's a lot of demand. 1596 01:17:59,440 --> 01:18:01,360 But it would only be a small clientele. 1597 01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:03,640 There's a lot of demand. 1598 01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:07,320 For antique dealers. 1599 01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:08,120 In other words. 1600 01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:11,650 Antique dealers are looking for space like this. 1601 01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:13,880 That's not the same as saying. 1602 01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:15,200 That there would be a high. 1603 01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:16,720 Traffic. 1604 01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:19,120 Clientele OK. 1605 01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:21,600 So it will not be hard to find dealers. 1606 01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:24,120 That want to use this space. 1607 01:18:24,990 --> 01:18:26,770 But the amount of. 1608 01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:28,400 Traffic. 1609 01:18:28,480 --> 01:18:29,760 You know it will be. 1610 01:18:30,160 --> 01:18:32,040 Is not necessarily going to be high. 1611 01:18:33,050 --> 01:18:35,450 It'll just be people. 1612 01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:37,640 Who are interested in the museum? 1613 01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:39,440 You know, would say, oh, you know. 1614 01:18:39,560 --> 01:18:41,600 There's some things for sale, you know, I'd like to. 1615 01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:45,440 You know, I'm interested in history. I'd like to buy something. 1616 01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:47,880 More of an opportunistic not. 1617 01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:48,960 You know a. 1618 01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:52,640 A major business. 1619 01:18:55,480 --> 01:18:58,200 And so as far as the parking. 1620 01:18:58,880 --> 01:19:00,320 We actually hired a. 1621 01:19:02,070 --> 01:19:03,370 A traffic engineer. 1622 01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,200 They had looked at Murray Holiday Road and actually recommended. 1623 01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:10,400 That there ought to be parking on both sides of the road. 1624 01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:16,690 Precisely because it would have a calming effect on the traffic, so it actually improved safety. 1625 01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:18,080 So I totally. 1626 01:19:18,880 --> 01:19:21,520 Disagree with the idea that allowing parking there. 1627 01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:25,320 Would impact safety negatively. It would actually. 1628 01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:26,120 According to. 1629 01:19:26,480 --> 01:19:26,920 The. 1630 01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:30,960 Support of our traffic engineer would actually be. 1631 01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:33,160 Improvement of safety. 1632 01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:36,120 But that's, you know, that's not really relevant to. 1633 01:19:36,320 --> 01:19:38,480 This application This application is. 1634 01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:40,840 Two things The antique shop. 1635 01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:43,880 And the additional dwelling unit and that's. 1636 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:46,040 Both are allowed. 1637 01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:48,080 Conditional uses. 1638 01:19:48,320 --> 01:19:49,000 Under. 1639 01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:50,880 Historic preservation ordinance. 1640 01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:51,680 And that's. 1641 01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:53,640 All we're asking for and that's. 1642 01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:55,360 The extent of. 1643 01:19:56,000 --> 01:19:57,880 Of what we're looking for tonight. 1644 01:19:58,120 --> 01:19:59,440 OK. Thank you very much. 1645 01:20:01,490 --> 01:20:02,810 All right, Commissioners. 1646 01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:04,920 Lots of discussion points. 1647 01:20:09,480 --> 01:20:10,240 So I'll just. 1648 01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,080 Kind of jump in and get this ball rolling a little bit on. 1649 01:20:13,680 --> 01:20:15,080 Thoughts that have come to mind. 1650 01:20:16,400 --> 01:20:18,210 When it comes to the modification. 1651 01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:20,760 I asked some. 1652 01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:22,970 Feel like fairly pointed questions? 1653 01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:28,290 It feels like this structure has been there for. 1654 01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:31,000 A century, or darn near it. 1655 01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:33,800 In its existing form. 1656 01:20:33,880 --> 01:20:35,640 The porch as house. 1657 01:20:36,480 --> 01:20:37,960 And not needing. 1658 01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:39,680 The porch removed and. 1659 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:41,880 Pulled out SO. 1660 01:20:42,910 --> 01:20:46,570 Outside of changing the windows and adding some shutters. 1661 01:20:47,550 --> 01:20:48,650 I'm not sure. 1662 01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:50,240 The modification. 1663 01:20:51,230 --> 01:20:55,090 Feels relevant or necessary? 1664 01:20:56,090 --> 01:20:59,610 And when I look at the use side of things. 1665 01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,960 Having been on the Planning Commission for a few years and. 1666 01:21:04,790 --> 01:21:10,090 Not being a goldfish and having a memory of the prior discussions about trying to add additional. 1667 01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:11,960 Housing units. 1668 01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:12,800 In this. 1669 01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:18,680 I too have heard a lot of stories of this house and how it's going to be. 1670 01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:20,350 Something else? 1671 01:21:21,240 --> 01:21:24,330 And only until very, very recently. When? 1672 01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:26,120 A historical home was. 1673 01:21:26,590 --> 01:21:31,110 Approved for a slight modification that did allow business use at all of a sudden. 1674 01:21:31,670 --> 01:21:32,550 A museum. 1675 01:21:32,830 --> 01:21:34,030 Enter the spotlight. 1676 01:21:34,270 --> 01:21:35,150 Of uses. 1677 01:21:36,670 --> 01:21:37,590 So for me. 1678 01:21:38,270 --> 01:21:42,590 You'll have to forgive me, Mr. Hilton, but it feels a little disingenuous. 1679 01:21:44,670 --> 01:21:47,680 Just looking back over the last four or five years. 1680 01:21:48,750 --> 01:21:49,430 To say. 1681 01:21:49,510 --> 01:21:50,750 Altruistically. 1682 01:21:50,830 --> 01:21:53,710 The intent all along was for this to be this really great. 1683 01:21:54,350 --> 01:21:58,070 Parcel for the Historical Commission to generate revenue from and. 1684 01:21:58,470 --> 01:22:00,750 Have this unique thing in holiday for. 1685 01:22:01,470 --> 01:22:06,000 And I believe someone already made a comment that I was thinking of. Well, we already have one of those homes. 1686 01:22:06,110 --> 01:22:09,150 On city property called the Casto House and. 1687 01:22:09,470 --> 01:22:12,230 If there was going to be a museum somewhere, it feels like. 1688 01:22:12,830 --> 01:22:14,710 That would be a great qualifier. 1689 01:22:15,580 --> 01:22:17,160 To do something like that with. 1690 01:22:17,630 --> 01:22:18,870 But that's not my purview. 1691 01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,960 So those are just some of my initial thoughts, but I'm going to. 1692 01:22:23,030 --> 01:22:27,960 Turn to my fellow commissioners and see how out of step I am with what they're thinking. 1693 01:22:28,840 --> 01:22:30,280 I have a question for staff. 1694 01:22:31,350 --> 01:22:32,550 Is there a site plan? 1695 01:22:33,550 --> 01:22:35,230 Showing where everything is going to go. 1696 01:22:35,950 --> 01:22:39,070 No, as far as the residential and the set back. 1697 01:22:39,790 --> 01:22:41,830 Is there a landscaping plan? 1698 01:22:41,910 --> 01:22:44,840 To show anything on this, I saw a tree in front of the house. 1699 01:22:44,990 --> 01:22:46,630 But maybe that was a century ago. 1700 01:22:47,320 --> 01:22:47,840 So. 1701 01:22:48,750 --> 01:22:51,670 Well, those drawings were not included in the application. 1702 01:22:52,070 --> 01:22:54,910 So I'm concerned to try and make a decision. 1703 01:22:55,070 --> 01:22:58,150 Without more of those kind of details because I think. 1704 01:22:58,230 --> 01:22:59,960 That's what this is asking for. 1705 01:23:00,980 --> 01:23:02,960 And I appreciated. 1706 01:23:03,070 --> 01:23:07,310 The comments in the staff report that the TRC said that there was. 1707 01:23:07,670 --> 01:23:09,590 A lot of detail that was still missing. 1708 01:23:09,710 --> 01:23:11,110 And that needs to be. 1709 01:23:11,470 --> 01:23:19,240 Supplied Do we need to identify use at this point in time or is that a part of the decision? 1710 01:23:19,470 --> 01:23:20,160 Because. 1711 01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:26,520 Let's make a decision on what it's going to be instead of just saying, well, let's just hope for the best and. 1712 01:23:26,910 --> 01:23:28,150 How all that happens? 1713 01:23:28,630 --> 01:23:31,040 I do have the concerns as I was talking about earlier with. 1714 01:23:31,190 --> 01:23:32,070 Parking. 1715 01:23:33,670 --> 01:23:37,030 If its street parking, does it have to be adjacent to the site? 1716 01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:37,790 The parking. 1717 01:23:38,390 --> 01:23:41,630 Or is there 100 foot, 200 foot? 1718 01:23:42,110 --> 01:23:44,590 To where that parking can still qualify as. 1719 01:23:45,750 --> 01:23:46,390 Yes. 1720 01:23:47,710 --> 01:23:48,510 So I'll. 1721 01:23:48,630 --> 01:23:51,150 Talk about the parking within your parking. 1722 01:23:51,230 --> 01:23:54,280 Ordinance allowances when you decide what the minimum. 1723 01:23:54,430 --> 01:23:55,710 Requirement is. 1724 01:23:56,190 --> 01:23:57,990 The property owner can find. 1725 01:23:58,190 --> 01:24:01,590 That minimum, a percentage of that minimum, I don't remember what it is right now. 1726 01:24:02,910 --> 01:24:03,630 Off site. 1727 01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:08,430 With and entering into agreement with the off site property owner to provide those. 1728 01:24:08,630 --> 01:24:09,790 X amount of stalls. 1729 01:24:10,310 --> 01:24:11,190 So if he needs. 1730 01:24:11,310 --> 01:24:13,590 10 and he can only provide 4. 1731 01:24:13,950 --> 01:24:18,990 The remainder can be provided with an agreement brought to the city saying that he's pursued. 1732 01:24:19,750 --> 01:24:21,710 And a use agreement with an. 1733 01:24:21,790 --> 01:24:23,550 Budding property within 500 feet. 1734 01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:28,190 To use their stalls 500 OK, so they have to have an addition. 1735 01:24:28,270 --> 01:24:29,590 To their own parking. 1736 01:24:29,870 --> 01:24:31,390 To be able to satisfy. 1737 01:24:32,110 --> 01:24:34,670 This request correct. If you land on a use. 1738 01:24:34,750 --> 01:24:35,510 The minimum. 1739 01:24:35,590 --> 01:24:36,710 On site parking. 1740 01:24:36,870 --> 01:24:39,310 Stall requirement is still in our requirement. 1741 01:24:40,310 --> 01:24:41,630 But I'm saying if they're. 1742 01:24:41,710 --> 01:24:44,360 Leasing spaces from somebody else they have to have. 1743 01:24:44,790 --> 01:24:48,070 More spaces than that are required for their use. 1744 01:24:48,710 --> 01:24:49,550 They can't. 1745 01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:53,010 Take required parking and lease it to another property. That would be yes. That would be the review that I would take a look at as 1746 01:24:53,010 --> 01:24:56,270 well. 1747 01:24:56,470 --> 01:24:57,590 What the donor? 1748 01:24:57,870 --> 01:24:59,230 Site is giving. 1749 01:24:59,350 --> 01:25:04,630 Granting would still be compliant with their minimum requirements. I mean I am concerned that the parking in this area. 1750 01:25:05,700 --> 01:25:10,880 Is going to start filtering over to Harmon's and to the the old store parking. 1751 01:25:11,190 --> 01:25:14,310 And there may not be any agreements for those and. 1752 01:25:15,210 --> 01:25:17,240 We could see some struggles with just. 1753 01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:22,200 With this happening, another question is the city interested in creating? 1754 01:25:22,670 --> 01:25:23,830 Museum here or? 1755 01:25:24,230 --> 01:25:26,510 Is that more of the applicants wishes? 1756 01:25:27,260 --> 01:25:28,640 That the city will take this. 1757 01:25:28,910 --> 01:25:33,470 This on, I can't speak for the city for acquisition, so we don't have any. 1758 01:25:33,590 --> 01:25:37,230 There's no official announcement or not, no one in this for that decision. 1759 01:25:37,550 --> 01:25:38,030 OK. 1760 01:25:38,950 --> 01:25:41,430 I'm really confused by this because I get. 1761 01:25:41,750 --> 01:25:42,710 See how we're? 1762 01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:44,670 We're just looking at the elevation. 1763 01:25:45,230 --> 01:25:47,830 And that's it. That's the site modification. 1764 01:25:48,230 --> 01:25:50,550 That's the extent is being proposed is this. 1765 01:25:50,670 --> 01:25:57,510 Drawing here. I mean I could do go ahead with that, but I don't think anything else is warranted without a site plan that shows. 1766 01:25:57,830 --> 01:25:58,630 How the? 1767 01:25:58,870 --> 01:26:01,630 Site is going to be laid out how the access. 1768 01:26:02,150 --> 01:26:06,670 If there's additional units on the property, how they are going to get parking for them? 1769 01:26:06,950 --> 01:26:09,390 Or are they going to be able to park elsewhere too? 1770 01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:11,280 I think you're right. 1771 01:26:11,710 --> 01:26:17,270 For a site modification what you have done in the past for historic preservation of sites. 1772 01:26:17,950 --> 01:26:20,990 The staff would need to take exactly what you're approving. 1773 01:26:21,470 --> 01:26:22,390 To a building permit. 1774 01:26:22,510 --> 01:26:23,230 Level. 1775 01:26:24,390 --> 01:26:24,830 Even at. 1776 01:26:24,910 --> 01:26:28,710 With the the extent of the drawings are being provided right now, I couldn't do that. 1777 01:26:28,830 --> 01:26:32,230 So you would need to provide some additional details as to what the. 1778 01:26:32,710 --> 01:26:35,470 You know, whatever the sighting of the new or the brick. 1779 01:26:35,670 --> 01:26:39,430 In layman would be used for the addition the roof structure. 1780 01:26:39,590 --> 01:26:41,430 The floor plan that might be provided. 1781 01:26:42,150 --> 01:26:47,150 Those are the type of details that I would essentially are looking for in the code itself. 1782 01:26:47,630 --> 01:26:49,950 Is providing sort of a period look. 1783 01:26:50,070 --> 01:26:51,190 For preservation. 1784 01:26:51,270 --> 01:26:52,430 OK. And. 1785 01:26:52,590 --> 01:26:56,630 To me, I think you need to also have a parking analysis to what type of use? 1786 01:26:56,790 --> 01:26:57,910 Is going in here. 1787 01:26:58,230 --> 01:27:00,070 If we are doing a retail with them. 1788 01:27:00,230 --> 01:27:01,150 Museum and a. 1789 01:27:01,750 --> 01:27:05,670 Shop The parking obviously is going to be more intense than. 1790 01:27:05,910 --> 01:27:07,390 The previous use was. 1791 01:27:07,990 --> 01:27:11,750 So right, I'm curious just how that all gets resolved. 1792 01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:14,200 I don't know if that helps or. 1793 01:27:14,390 --> 01:27:18,350 Just had sports difficulty to this. There's just more layers in the cake I think. 1794 01:27:20,770 --> 01:27:22,000 Yeah, I think, I think. 1795 01:27:22,430 --> 01:27:25,230 I agree that we're missing a lot of context and and. 1796 01:27:25,430 --> 01:27:26,790 In addition to what? 1797 01:27:27,670 --> 01:27:28,990 Commissioner Baron said. 1798 01:27:29,390 --> 01:27:34,270 Because this is part of a PUD, I feel like I don't have the context for what what's happening. If this is supposed to be planned 1799 01:27:34,270 --> 01:27:39,150 as a unit, we don't have any other pieces for how the unit. 1800 01:27:39,470 --> 01:27:40,470 Is supposed to. 1801 01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:44,840 B and so. 1802 01:27:44,950 --> 01:27:46,670 I don't think we can plan a PUDPP. 1803 01:27:46,750 --> 01:27:47,390 Piece meal. 1804 01:27:49,420 --> 01:27:49,940 Well, and. 1805 01:27:50,510 --> 01:27:52,150 Commissioner Gong, to echo your. 1806 01:27:52,270 --> 01:27:57,520 Comments. We've already got the PUD. What we don't have before us. 1807 01:27:58,190 --> 01:28:00,430 As part of the application is. 1808 01:28:00,510 --> 01:28:01,270 How this? 1809 01:28:01,350 --> 01:28:04,750 Fits with the vision of the PUD as it was. 1810 01:28:04,870 --> 01:28:05,910 Planned when we. 1811 01:28:06,150 --> 01:28:07,550 Saw it 2. 1812 01:28:08,270 --> 01:28:11,270 Three years ago. A couple of years ago. 1813 01:28:11,590 --> 01:28:12,350 And so I would. 1814 01:28:12,710 --> 01:28:13,790 I would echo. 1815 01:28:14,150 --> 01:28:15,350 Commissioner gone and. 1816 01:28:15,550 --> 01:28:17,150 Commissioner Barents comments that. 1817 01:28:17,510 --> 01:28:20,030 We simply don't have enough information. 1818 01:28:20,110 --> 01:28:22,390 To even make any sort of a. 1819 01:28:22,830 --> 01:28:23,560 Possible. 1820 01:28:23,710 --> 01:28:26,030 Thought of a decision. 1821 01:28:27,150 --> 01:28:29,030 And I, I I'm not even sure if we have enough. 1822 01:28:29,190 --> 01:28:31,310 Information to continue it frankly, but but. 1823 01:28:32,630 --> 01:28:33,670 But I do think. 1824 01:28:34,530 --> 01:28:36,280 Considering a continuation is. 1825 01:28:38,500 --> 01:28:39,880 Is the most generous. 1826 01:28:40,350 --> 01:28:41,710 Thing that we could do. 1827 01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:42,830 This point. 1828 01:28:45,150 --> 01:28:47,630 So I'm a sample of 1. 1829 01:28:48,070 --> 01:28:51,080 But I went up there, I went up to the property. 1830 01:28:51,670 --> 01:28:53,070 And I. 1831 01:28:54,780 --> 01:28:58,820 Could not find a place to park. I wanted to see what we were looking at. 1832 01:28:59,110 --> 01:29:00,190 And I ended up. 1833 01:29:00,310 --> 01:29:04,430 Just driving around the corner and parking in. 1834 01:29:05,150 --> 01:29:06,310 A neighborhood. 1835 01:29:06,830 --> 01:29:10,030 And I thought, OK, well, if there's a retail business. 1836 01:29:10,310 --> 01:29:11,710 To go in here. 1837 01:29:12,070 --> 01:29:13,510 Where are people going to? 1838 01:29:13,630 --> 01:29:17,510 Park, so that's my first concern. 1839 01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:20,870 The other thing is I too see a lot of. 1840 01:29:22,670 --> 01:29:24,390 Disconnects between. 1841 01:29:25,110 --> 01:29:29,670 You know, well, it's an antique shop, but there's not going to really be a lot of. 1842 01:29:30,230 --> 01:29:34,550 Traffic in the antique shop, there's not going to be a lot of business really the. 1843 01:29:34,670 --> 01:29:37,870 Traffic is coming in to look at the museum and. 1844 01:29:38,230 --> 01:29:41,790 Well, if it's an antique shop and there are antiques being sold. 1845 01:29:42,470 --> 01:29:43,310 People are going to have. 1846 01:29:43,390 --> 01:29:45,230 Park somewhere and if. 1847 01:29:45,430 --> 01:29:47,950 Buying big items, are they going to have to? 1848 01:29:48,550 --> 01:29:56,070 Bring trucks in to carry the big items out and there's just not enough information there. And I would agree with the. 1849 01:29:56,310 --> 01:29:57,630 With the statement that. 1850 01:29:58,030 --> 01:30:00,400 Even to continue this would be. 1851 01:30:00,990 --> 01:30:04,630 A generous gesture on our part, but I don't know what other. 1852 01:30:04,990 --> 01:30:06,070 Option we have. 1853 01:30:06,190 --> 01:30:08,630 So the other option we have is to. 1854 01:30:09,190 --> 01:30:10,870 The forward a disapproval. 1855 01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:16,270 I mean that is. 1856 01:30:16,350 --> 01:30:18,630 But it is a conditional use, so we have to. 1857 01:30:19,820 --> 01:30:22,120 But we can't with conditions so. 1858 01:30:22,270 --> 01:30:25,270 We can't make a decision on a conditional use until we. 1859 01:30:25,510 --> 01:30:27,790 That's the determine the site. 1860 01:30:27,870 --> 01:30:30,870 Modifications which we don't have the information for so. 1861 01:30:32,240 --> 01:30:34,520 We're kind of stuck. 1862 01:30:37,900 --> 01:30:39,360 Counsel, do you have any? 1863 01:30:39,910 --> 01:30:41,430 Legal counsel, do you have any? 1864 01:30:41,510 --> 01:30:43,630 Thoughts for us? Do you want to just? 1865 01:30:45,220 --> 01:30:50,400 Float Anything out there that we should be thoughtful of as we consider our options? 1866 01:30:50,830 --> 01:30:53,070 So this is the. 1867 01:30:53,150 --> 01:30:55,880 John, just correct me if I'm wrong. This is the historic preservation. 1868 01:30:55,950 --> 01:30:57,670 Additional uses, right? 1869 01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:00,600 OK, so there is. 1870 01:31:01,550 --> 01:31:06,030 So typically in a conditional use permit, as long as you meet the checkboxes. 1871 01:31:06,150 --> 01:31:06,950 Typically it's. 1872 01:31:07,950 --> 01:31:08,870 Something that we. 1873 01:31:08,990 --> 01:31:12,590 Obligated to approve in the ordinance that Holiday has adopted. 1874 01:31:12,990 --> 01:31:14,350 It actually states that. 1875 01:31:14,470 --> 01:31:16,230 This is not anything. 1876 01:31:18,090 --> 01:31:22,760 That is done by Wright, and it's not a guarantee of a conditional use, it's an option. 1877 01:31:22,870 --> 01:31:25,550 To help, as long as you can connect those and. 1878 01:31:25,870 --> 01:31:27,390 From what I'm hearing. 1879 01:31:27,870 --> 01:31:31,150 And from the TRC report, there wasn't a great Nexus to the preservation and the potential uses that have been requested to be 1880 01:31:31,150 --> 01:31:34,430 added. 1881 01:31:35,510 --> 01:31:39,430 So your options before you tonight are to continue. 1882 01:31:39,510 --> 01:31:44,830 The the item and request that the applicant bring back additional information that would allow. 1883 01:31:45,030 --> 01:31:52,510 You guys to make a decision, you can determine that they didn't meet those obligations on the application. 1884 01:31:52,750 --> 01:31:54,590 And you can deny the conditional use. 1885 01:31:54,670 --> 01:31:56,070 Those are kind of your. 1886 01:31:56,470 --> 01:32:00,070 Option We only had one of the public hearings so far. Do we do both or did we do both? 1887 01:32:00,230 --> 01:32:00,630 OK. 1888 01:32:01,270 --> 01:32:02,230 Yeah, OK. We. 1889 01:32:02,310 --> 01:32:06,070 Combined the two public hearings. So we had the two public hearings. So you can, you can. 1890 01:32:07,470 --> 01:32:11,150 Deny them based if you believe that they have not met their. 1891 01:32:12,150 --> 01:32:14,310 Obligations under the code, you can deny it. 1892 01:32:15,310 --> 01:32:15,910 If you. 1893 01:32:16,590 --> 01:32:20,130 I don't disagree with Commissioner Prince's assessment that the most generous thing you could do is to continue it and allow the 1894 01:32:20,130 --> 01:32:23,670 applicant. 1895 01:32:23,990 --> 01:32:27,440 To bring back additional information, but you have both of those options available to you. 1896 01:32:30,340 --> 01:32:32,840 Yes, for me, Commissioner Prince, as I look at all this. 1897 01:32:35,720 --> 01:32:38,960 I'm trying to think of a real world scenario in which. 1898 01:32:39,350 --> 01:32:41,390 Here I want to build a house. 1899 01:32:42,260 --> 01:32:43,160 Dwelling Unit. 1900 01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:45,720 Immediately adjacent. 1901 01:32:45,870 --> 01:32:46,590 To this. 1902 01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:49,720 House that I want. 1903 01:32:50,190 --> 01:32:51,880 To have be a different use. 1904 01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:55,680 Would make it an appropriate. 1905 01:32:57,390 --> 01:32:58,430 Modification. 1906 01:33:01,440 --> 01:33:03,560 Like I think that's the part I'm stuck on. 1907 01:33:04,030 --> 01:33:04,950 For example. 1908 01:33:05,190 --> 01:33:06,870 The last time we saw historic. 1909 01:33:07,030 --> 01:33:10,430 House come to us where they wanted to have a business and a house. 1910 01:33:10,670 --> 01:33:11,790 Mind you, they had. 1911 01:33:11,910 --> 01:33:15,430 Plenty of off street parking for those things already established. 1912 01:33:15,870 --> 01:33:17,110 The house was already. 1913 01:33:17,230 --> 01:33:20,200 Built it wasn't hey I want to build a house on. 1914 01:33:20,310 --> 01:33:22,590 Addition to this antique house. 1915 01:33:22,670 --> 01:33:24,750 It was. Here's this antique house. 1916 01:33:24,830 --> 01:33:30,110 That I bought to make an Airbnb out of because it's basically an apartment with a house attached to it. 1917 01:33:30,510 --> 01:33:35,150 And then, oh, lo and behold, it actually turns out to be this historic home and this little. 1918 01:33:35,670 --> 01:33:39,030 Treasure trove, and at the same time, huge expense for that. 1919 01:33:39,550 --> 01:33:40,310 Property owner. 1920 01:33:41,580 --> 01:33:42,600 I don't see that. 1921 01:33:43,030 --> 01:33:46,720 Correlation. As I look at what's before us tonight, I see. 1922 01:33:48,390 --> 01:33:49,990 A pattern from an applicant. 1923 01:33:50,230 --> 01:33:51,310 Who wants to put? 1924 01:33:52,300 --> 01:33:53,400 A lot of homes. 1925 01:33:54,260 --> 01:33:57,120 And this is another vehicle to put. 1926 01:33:57,230 --> 01:34:01,110 An additional home somewhere that has already been rejected. 1927 01:34:01,820 --> 01:34:03,400 To my recollection. 1928 01:34:03,510 --> 01:34:05,110 Three or four Times Now. 1929 01:34:06,340 --> 01:34:07,760 Including by this. 1930 01:34:08,570 --> 01:34:10,250 Body right? 1931 01:34:11,940 --> 01:34:13,240 So for me. 1932 01:34:13,630 --> 01:34:15,030 We can give him more time. 1933 01:34:15,110 --> 01:34:17,350 And maybe you can come back and demonstrate. 1934 01:34:18,390 --> 01:34:19,510 What I'm missing? 1935 01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:22,800 But that's the component that I don't feel. 1936 01:34:23,950 --> 01:34:28,350 Any additional information is going to help make any clearer for me. 1937 01:34:29,390 --> 01:34:30,270 From where I. 1938 01:34:30,430 --> 01:34:32,150 I'm not trying to speak for the body here. 1939 01:34:32,230 --> 01:34:33,230 So that's just. 1940 01:34:36,670 --> 01:34:37,550 So that said. 1941 01:34:38,070 --> 01:34:45,070 I'm more than willing to entertain a motion to continue, or to deny or to approve, whichever. 1942 01:34:48,730 --> 01:34:49,720 The Commission appeals. 1943 01:34:53,140 --> 01:34:57,320 And also as the modification necessary, would it be beneficial? 1944 01:34:58,830 --> 01:35:00,590 Does it check all the boxes? 1945 01:35:01,410 --> 01:35:03,520 And I guess I'll defer back to city staff. 1946 01:35:03,670 --> 01:35:07,330 What is with what's proposed in the modification? We can't approve it because we're missing the information for the modification, 1947 01:35:07,330 --> 01:35:10,990 right? 1948 01:35:12,030 --> 01:35:12,710 I think you come to. 1949 01:35:13,740 --> 01:35:16,560 So we could continue the modification. 1950 01:35:17,870 --> 01:35:20,280 But we could still potentially deny the use. 1951 01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:21,680 Right. 1952 01:35:32,070 --> 01:35:32,830 So we did not. 1953 01:35:33,030 --> 01:35:34,030 We can deny it. 1954 01:35:34,150 --> 01:35:35,350 Conditional use permit. 1955 01:35:35,510 --> 01:35:36,430 You need to turn my. 1956 01:35:37,110 --> 01:35:37,710 I'm asking you. 1957 01:35:38,750 --> 01:35:39,150 Yes. 1958 01:35:39,550 --> 01:35:40,150 We can. 1959 01:35:40,590 --> 01:35:41,350 The second. 1960 01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:44,840 Yeah, the land use permit. 1961 01:35:45,230 --> 01:35:46,830 We could deny that. 1962 01:35:48,760 --> 01:35:49,960 Oh yeah, there was. 1963 01:35:50,070 --> 01:35:52,120 They're both conditional use permits, right? 1964 01:35:52,950 --> 01:35:54,230 Yeah, the number 3. 1965 01:35:54,910 --> 01:35:55,590 Item. 1966 01:35:59,230 --> 01:36:00,880 For the site modification. 1967 01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:04,440 I I'm not convinced we killed. 1968 01:36:06,500 --> 01:36:07,600 Approve anything. 1969 01:36:08,030 --> 01:36:11,550 I tonight no. 1970 01:36:12,070 --> 01:36:13,270 Yeah, I'm thinking about. 1971 01:36:13,990 --> 01:36:16,630 What it means to continue versus. 1972 01:36:17,620 --> 01:36:18,880 Denied this moment if. 1973 01:36:19,150 --> 01:36:20,030 If a. 1974 01:36:20,790 --> 01:36:22,630 Proposal is denied. Can. 1975 01:36:23,230 --> 01:36:24,960 Bring back a variation of it. 1976 01:36:25,390 --> 01:36:29,790 With additional details or no if it's close enough to something that's been. 1977 01:36:30,310 --> 01:36:31,590 Denied they can't do that. 1978 01:36:32,030 --> 01:36:33,870 They can. They can bring back something. 1979 01:36:33,990 --> 01:36:35,230 At a different time. 1980 01:36:35,670 --> 01:36:37,870 That's a different application. 1981 01:36:37,950 --> 01:36:40,230 And is, if it's continued, is there a? 1982 01:36:41,340 --> 01:36:43,460 Time limit to when that continuation ends. 1983 01:36:44,190 --> 01:36:45,240 Continuation with. 1984 01:36:45,390 --> 01:36:49,630 Presume that they would be coming to you, that you're either the next or the following meetings. 1985 01:36:50,530 --> 01:36:53,560 Another option would be to table it until the applicant's ready. 1986 01:36:54,850 --> 01:36:56,160 With an application. 1987 01:36:56,270 --> 01:36:57,550 Maybe working with staff? 1988 01:36:57,750 --> 01:37:00,590 To come back to the Planning Commission for at a different time. 1989 01:37:02,890 --> 01:37:07,840 But a continuation would presume it would be on your next meeting. Your next meeting is going to be next week. 1990 01:37:07,990 --> 01:37:09,870 There's too much needs to be done. 1991 01:37:09,950 --> 01:37:15,360 I'll just, I've done this once before in a meeting and I'll just do it out of generosity. 1992 01:37:16,070 --> 01:37:17,070 Mr. Hilton. 1993 01:37:18,790 --> 01:37:19,870 As an off ramp. 1994 01:37:20,110 --> 01:37:22,800 Would you like to withdraw your application tonight? 1995 01:37:23,550 --> 01:37:24,670 For either of these. 1996 01:37:30,120 --> 01:37:31,000 Because we can do that. 1997 01:37:31,150 --> 01:37:33,470 Right, you can withdraw his application if he wants. 1998 01:37:34,350 --> 01:37:34,950 So that's. 1999 01:37:35,070 --> 01:37:39,790 It's just a yes or no. Would you like to withdraw your application? I just want to make sure I understand withdraw. 2000 01:37:40,510 --> 01:37:42,430 The modification or the N? 2001 01:37:42,830 --> 01:37:44,310 Well, conditional use or. 2002 01:37:44,470 --> 01:37:45,990 Yeah. So if you'd like to withdraw. 2003 01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:48,840 And come back at a later time. 2004 01:37:48,950 --> 01:37:53,270 I'm affording you that opportunity to make that decision right now, before any other decisions are made. 2005 01:37:54,530 --> 01:37:56,280 No, I don't think I want to withdraw. 2006 01:37:56,590 --> 01:37:57,350 Right now, OK. 2007 01:37:57,430 --> 01:37:58,910 Thank you very much. You can sit back now. 2008 01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:01,720 I will say this I. 2009 01:38:03,010 --> 01:38:05,680 The an antique store is. 2010 01:38:05,870 --> 01:38:09,120 A possible use of it. It designated a historic building. 2011 01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,920 I it seems like it's possible that there's a way. 2012 01:38:14,230 --> 01:38:15,750 This site could make it work. 2013 01:38:16,190 --> 01:38:18,390 If lots of things. 2014 01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:20,350 Parking being one of them. 2015 01:38:20,710 --> 01:38:23,630 Were different, and I think that depends on how the rest of the. 2016 01:38:23,870 --> 01:38:26,510 The area and the beauty is used. 2017 01:38:27,750 --> 01:38:30,270 So my input is I wouldn't. 2018 01:38:31,070 --> 01:38:31,630 I wouldn't. 2019 01:38:33,210 --> 01:38:36,720 Deny the conditional use with. I wouldn't unlink. 2020 01:38:36,830 --> 01:38:38,390 The conditional use on the. 2021 01:38:38,790 --> 01:38:40,310 Use. What am I saying? 2022 01:38:40,470 --> 01:38:41,470 I wouldn't. I wouldn't. 2023 01:38:41,710 --> 01:38:42,710 Unlink the use. 2024 01:38:42,870 --> 01:38:44,390 From the site modification. 2025 01:38:45,030 --> 01:38:46,110 That's my thought. 2026 01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:51,280 My concern with continuing is that our next meeting. 2027 01:38:51,670 --> 01:38:52,710 Is next week. 2028 01:38:53,070 --> 01:38:54,840 And then the next meeting is. 2029 01:38:55,550 --> 01:38:56,910 The next week. 2030 01:38:57,030 --> 01:38:59,080 And I don't want to see this again. 2031 01:38:59,870 --> 01:39:02,160 Until there's actually enough information. 2032 01:39:03,130 --> 01:39:04,800 To make a decision because this. 2033 01:39:07,670 --> 01:39:09,950 Is not enough. There simply is not. 2034 01:39:11,500 --> 01:39:13,680 It's not fleshed out, there's not enough detail. 2035 01:39:14,150 --> 01:39:15,990 And as John said. 2036 01:39:16,350 --> 01:39:18,150 A building plan could not come. 2037 01:39:18,590 --> 01:39:20,470 From what has been presented tonight. 2038 01:39:21,150 --> 01:39:22,590 And so I. 2039 01:39:23,230 --> 01:39:23,830 Think. 2040 01:39:24,550 --> 01:39:30,320 That that we should table this and Brad, I'd like to know how we officially table something. 2041 01:39:30,430 --> 01:39:31,590 Not continue it. 2042 01:39:31,710 --> 01:39:32,590 But say. 2043 01:39:33,350 --> 01:39:34,150 We're not gonna. 2044 01:39:35,140 --> 01:39:37,200 Look at this until there's more information. 2045 01:39:38,170 --> 01:39:40,560 But not put pressure on the applicant that has to be. 2046 01:39:40,670 --> 01:39:41,230 In a week. 2047 01:39:44,480 --> 01:39:46,440 That's pretty straightforward, you just table it. 2048 01:39:46,790 --> 01:39:49,030 And direct the the applicant to. 2049 01:39:49,190 --> 01:39:52,270 Our direct staff to not put this back on the agenda until it's. 2050 01:39:52,590 --> 01:39:56,510 In your mind a complete application or staff mind a complete application that could. 2051 01:39:56,670 --> 01:39:58,990 The I mean, that's one option. 2052 01:39:59,150 --> 01:40:00,520 I mean, you have that ability. 2053 01:40:01,110 --> 01:40:02,150 You could also just. 2054 01:40:02,310 --> 01:40:03,470 Deny it you can. 2055 01:40:03,670 --> 01:40:05,630 As John said, you could continue it to. 2056 01:40:05,710 --> 01:40:06,550 But yeah, you. 2057 01:40:06,790 --> 01:40:08,590 Kind of it appears that. 2058 01:40:08,670 --> 01:40:10,110 Continuing it is not an option. 2059 01:40:10,630 --> 01:40:11,910 Tabling it is. 2060 01:40:13,590 --> 01:40:16,790 You know an option that you could. Do you have that available to you? 2061 01:40:16,950 --> 01:40:19,230 What is the difference between tabling at? 2062 01:40:19,350 --> 01:40:20,350 And denying it. 2063 01:40:21,830 --> 01:40:24,990 Denying the application tabling it allows the applicant to. 2064 01:40:25,390 --> 01:40:28,400 Complete and add to their application. Bring in more information. 2065 01:40:28,510 --> 01:40:29,630 Get past the. 2066 01:40:30,390 --> 01:40:31,270 I guess the. 2067 01:40:33,850 --> 01:40:34,370 Staff. 2068 01:40:35,790 --> 01:40:37,390 And meet the obligations or meet the. 2069 01:40:37,510 --> 01:40:41,550 The information requirements in order to get back onto the agenda that you guys would determine. 2070 01:40:41,910 --> 01:40:42,910 You guys can determine. 2071 01:40:43,310 --> 01:40:46,590 Complete application as determined by staff if you wanted to leave it general or. 2072 01:40:46,990 --> 01:40:48,430 Complete the information. 2073 01:40:49,860 --> 01:40:50,800 That was. 2074 01:40:51,310 --> 01:40:52,870 In the Planning Commission's. 2075 01:40:52,990 --> 01:40:56,390 View missing from the application that not allow you to do that you could. 2076 01:40:56,590 --> 01:40:58,030 Delineate certain things. 2077 01:40:59,190 --> 01:41:01,160 But if you deny the application. 2078 01:41:01,270 --> 01:41:04,430 This exact application cannot come back for at least a year. 2079 01:41:04,670 --> 01:41:06,190 Oh so. 2080 01:41:06,470 --> 01:41:07,190 I'm just gonna. 2081 01:41:07,310 --> 01:41:10,590 Throw this out here just once and then I'll defer to the Commission. 2082 01:41:11,430 --> 01:41:14,040 We've spent 75 minutes combing over this. 2083 01:41:14,670 --> 01:41:17,150 I think our city staff does an outstanding job. 2084 01:41:17,750 --> 01:41:20,840 Of preparing applicants to come before this Commission. 2085 01:41:21,390 --> 01:41:24,510 And vetting out every detail that they possibly can. 2086 01:41:24,630 --> 01:41:25,270 Before it or. 2087 01:41:25,350 --> 01:41:26,230 Comes to us. 2088 01:41:26,790 --> 01:41:28,910 We provided an off ramp already. 2089 01:41:29,550 --> 01:41:31,070 Because he can withdraw it and come back. 2090 01:41:31,510 --> 01:41:35,400 Next week or two months from now, he doesn't want to do that, he feels. 2091 01:41:36,110 --> 01:41:37,830 That this was good enough. 2092 01:41:37,910 --> 01:41:40,710 And he wants a decision tonight based on this being good enough. 2093 01:41:42,140 --> 01:41:44,580 And that's where I fall into the category of. 2094 01:41:44,790 --> 01:41:46,710 To Commissioner Prince's point. 2095 01:41:46,820 --> 01:41:48,060 I don't want to see it again. 2096 01:41:48,900 --> 01:41:53,060 And if it comes back as a complete application and makes sense and all the things that we talked about and all the things that the 2097 01:41:53,060 --> 01:41:57,220 members of the public took time out of their night to talk about. 2098 01:41:57,660 --> 01:42:00,780 So if they come back to have to talk to it again because if we. 2099 01:42:00,900 --> 01:42:02,340 Continue it or table it. 2100 01:42:02,580 --> 01:42:06,620 We're going to have to reopen a public hearing if there's modifications made to it, right? 2101 01:42:09,370 --> 01:42:11,570 That's significantly different than what you're. 2102 01:42:11,780 --> 01:42:14,140 Have seen I mean, there's going to be quite. 2103 01:42:14,260 --> 01:42:19,000 A lot more information if you're looking for a site plan and a parking analysis, right? That could be fallen to the category of 2104 01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:23,740 significantly different than what you're currently looking at, right? 2105 01:42:23,900 --> 01:42:24,790 You'd probably need to reopen. 2106 01:42:25,420 --> 01:42:25,900 Right. 2107 01:42:26,180 --> 01:42:29,940 So we're just going to have to go through the whole exercise all over again. 2108 01:42:30,180 --> 01:42:31,180 My opinion? 2109 01:42:31,580 --> 01:42:32,220 Deny it. 2110 01:42:33,020 --> 01:42:34,540 And move on. 2111 01:42:34,700 --> 01:42:36,660 And unless somebody. 2112 01:42:37,180 --> 01:42:38,020 Thinks I'm just. 2113 01:42:38,140 --> 01:42:38,940 Being a bully. 2114 01:42:39,420 --> 01:42:40,940 I'm ready to make that motion. 2115 01:42:42,210 --> 01:42:42,730 Let's go. 2116 01:42:43,420 --> 01:42:44,580 Let's go, OK. 2117 01:42:46,210 --> 01:42:48,710 So this is Commissioner Roach. 2118 01:42:48,860 --> 01:42:49,900 Or Chairman Roche. 2119 01:42:50,980 --> 01:42:53,550 I motion the Holiday Planning Commission to. 2120 01:42:53,660 --> 01:42:56,340 Deny the application for a conditional use. 2121 01:42:56,580 --> 01:43:01,900 For a historical site modification for the Casper Cottage designated as a historical site. 2122 01:43:01,980 --> 01:43:07,740 By section 1386020 of the city code located at 4660. 2123 01:43:07,820 --> 01:43:09,300 South Holden Court. 2124 01:43:09,540 --> 01:43:11,340 Commissioner Fondle second. 2125 01:43:11,460 --> 01:43:13,220 OK, it's been second. We'll call for vote. 2126 01:43:13,340 --> 01:43:14,940 I have just one question doing that. 2127 01:43:15,020 --> 01:43:16,700 Need to have findings for this. 2128 01:43:17,820 --> 01:43:20,380 Other than it was an incomplete application or. 2129 01:43:21,770 --> 01:43:25,950 I'm just curious you can make findings that it was it lacked sufficient information. 2130 01:43:26,580 --> 01:43:31,160 To in the Planning Commission's view that it was not a complete application and was therefore deemed, and you can even make the 2131 01:43:31,160 --> 01:43:35,740 finding that you gave the. 2132 01:43:35,860 --> 01:43:39,060 Applicant the opportunity to withdraw it and come back with more information. 2133 01:43:39,140 --> 01:43:42,660 And the applicant rejected that option. OK, and you can make those two and all of that. 2134 01:43:43,420 --> 01:43:45,980 Ditto to all the findings. Legal counsel just. 2135 01:43:46,380 --> 01:43:48,180 OK. Yeah, through in there. 2136 01:43:49,460 --> 01:43:51,060 Second motion, 2nd, 2nd. 2137 01:43:51,140 --> 01:43:52,060 OK, amended. 2138 01:43:52,300 --> 01:43:53,780 Motion, Mr. Barron. 2139 01:43:54,020 --> 01:43:55,180 Aye, Mr. Gong. 2140 01:43:55,620 --> 01:43:58,780 Mr. Prince, Hi, Mr. Font, aye and Chair Roach votes aye. 2141 01:43:59,660 --> 01:44:02,750 Do we need to make that same motion again for the next one? 2142 01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:04,440 OK. 2143 01:44:06,060 --> 01:44:07,980 If I can find the language for the. 2144 01:44:09,650 --> 01:44:10,650 Looking at the wrong 1 here. 2145 01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:16,590 Nice one. Thank you. 2146 01:44:18,190 --> 01:44:21,150 Mr. Chair Roach, I motion, Motion the. 2147 01:44:21,580 --> 01:44:28,980 Holiday Planning Commission moved to deny the application for a conditional use permit for a historical site modification. 2148 01:44:29,060 --> 01:44:32,940 For the Casper Cottage, designated as a historical section. 2149 01:44:33,180 --> 01:44:40,980 OR site by section 1386020 of the City of Holiday Code located at 4660 S Fulton Court. 2150 01:44:41,380 --> 01:44:43,020 Isn't that the same one? 2151 01:44:43,100 --> 01:44:44,460 Yeah, that is the same one. 2152 01:44:44,860 --> 01:44:47,380 There's a, there's a, there isn't. 2153 01:44:47,500 --> 01:44:48,700 Motion for the. 2154 01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:51,910 For the use. 2155 01:44:52,020 --> 01:44:52,740 For the use. 2156 01:44:56,310 --> 01:45:01,230 You can use the same and I use the same emotion and amend it for the use, yes. 2157 01:45:01,340 --> 01:45:03,060 OK, then I amend it for the use. 2158 01:45:04,100 --> 01:45:08,340 Due to the incomplete, due to all the things that we've talked about on the last motion. 2159 01:45:09,220 --> 01:45:10,900 This is Commissioner Prince, I second. 2160 01:45:11,580 --> 01:45:12,740 Excellent, Commissioner. 2161 01:45:12,940 --> 01:45:15,300 Aye, Commissioner Gong. Aye, Commissioner Perez, aye. 2162 01:45:15,500 --> 01:45:16,340 Commissioner. 2163 01:45:16,460 --> 01:45:18,540 Font aye and Chair Roach votes aye. 2164 01:45:19,300 --> 01:45:20,060 Give me a break. 2165 01:45:20,140 --> 01:45:25,630 And with that, we're going to take a 5 minute recess before the next one. Thank you all very much. 2166 01:45:25,740 --> 01:45:26,300 Appreciate it. 2167 01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:02,080 If you haven't noticed, there's a sink right behind this wall. 2168 01:46:38,180 --> 01:46:40,620 I think you would really enjoy meeting her. 2169 01:46:51,420 --> 01:46:52,940 Are you wearing a work shirt? 2170 01:46:59,380 --> 01:47:00,620 You have a work shirt now? 2171 01:47:01,460 --> 01:47:03,780 I do, that's why I'm wearing my sweater, so it's not. 2172 01:47:04,260 --> 01:47:05,580 Very, very cool. 2173 01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:10,790 So I saw the donation. 2174 01:47:10,900 --> 01:47:12,180 From who was? 2175 01:47:59,990 --> 01:48:02,170 So example, here's a test. 2176 01:48:02,440 --> 01:48:04,650 So you can see like the volume going here. 2177 01:48:04,760 --> 01:48:05,600 And you'd have to. 2178 01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,120 Talk up this close to get it in. 2179 01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:08,960 Here. 2180 01:48:51,450 --> 01:48:52,210 That was. 2181 01:49:51,200 --> 01:49:54,760 There are people who are. 2182 01:49:56,600 --> 01:49:56,960 Broadcast. 2183 01:51:33,890 --> 01:51:34,290 All right. 2184 01:51:36,170 --> 01:51:38,330 We back on ready, everybody good to go. 2185 01:51:39,060 --> 01:51:42,220 Like, yeah, I don't know if we were ready 20 minutes ago. OK, here we go. 2186 01:51:42,490 --> 01:51:47,210 Welcome back. We are moving on to item number 4 on the agenda tonight. 2187 01:51:47,490 --> 01:51:52,300 Yay the Royal holiday Hills Block A and C final plan John. 2188 01:51:52,410 --> 01:51:53,690 You have the floor. 2189 01:51:54,290 --> 01:51:55,970 Thank you. I think I've. 2190 01:51:56,330 --> 01:52:00,410 May have answered all or presented what I possibly could do on our work session. 2191 01:52:00,570 --> 01:52:04,010 So unless you have any other questions of me that I can answer now. 2192 01:52:05,130 --> 01:52:07,530 I think talking with the applicants there may be. 2193 01:52:08,010 --> 01:52:09,850 One elevation or maybe 2? 2194 01:52:09,930 --> 01:52:11,490 That we didn't get into your packet. 2195 01:52:12,170 --> 01:52:15,610 And I'm hoping, Carrie, that the images are showing up. 2196 01:52:15,850 --> 01:52:17,090 Because they're not showing up. 2197 01:52:17,530 --> 01:52:18,210 At least. 2198 01:52:18,370 --> 01:52:22,050 Oh my. Adobe tried, decided now, decided to work. 2199 01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:24,400 Maybe it's just our Wi-Fi. 2200 01:52:25,580 --> 01:52:27,740 Fantastic. OK, so yes. 2201 01:52:27,930 --> 01:52:32,250 You have a final site plan that's been continued to this meeting requesting a review of. 2202 01:52:32,410 --> 01:52:35,610 A landscaping plan that does comply with the ordinance rather than. 2203 01:52:35,770 --> 01:52:38,330 And administrative relief type situation. 2204 01:52:38,610 --> 01:52:40,490 And then an update to the elevations. 2205 01:52:40,970 --> 01:52:43,010 Property owner has their design team here. 2206 01:52:43,950 --> 01:52:46,020 TRC has reviewed this and is. 2207 01:52:46,770 --> 01:52:48,970 More than happy of what that's been provided. 2208 01:52:49,370 --> 01:52:51,130 In the drawings to you tonight. 2209 01:52:51,370 --> 01:52:52,370 For both the. 2210 01:52:53,170 --> 01:52:54,930 Retail pads of Block A. 2211 01:52:55,730 --> 01:52:56,970 And the one loaner? 2212 01:52:57,450 --> 01:52:58,850 Retail pad of Block C. 2213 01:52:59,730 --> 01:53:04,490 You never saw that before? That's the that's the one on the South entrance where the light is. 2214 01:53:04,930 --> 01:53:09,770 And I'll have the property owner give you more details on on what that what they've come up with there. 2215 01:53:10,330 --> 01:53:12,130 Great. Any other questions for staff? 2216 01:53:12,930 --> 01:53:13,530 All right. 2217 01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:24,660 Good evening, Commissioners. Steve Peterson, 6147 S Fernesco Holiday, Utah. 2218 01:53:24,930 --> 01:53:25,970 Good to be with you tonight. 2219 01:53:26,530 --> 01:53:28,090 How do you like your new facilities? 2220 01:53:29,970 --> 01:53:32,730 So far, I think they're pretty nice, pretty spacious, yeah. 2221 01:53:33,250 --> 01:53:34,570 So anyway, it's good to be here. 2222 01:53:35,290 --> 01:53:36,530 We're coming before you. 2223 01:53:37,330 --> 01:53:39,610 And have provided. 2224 01:53:40,890 --> 01:53:44,570 A site plan and the elevations we believe conforms with the SDMP and. 2225 01:53:45,290 --> 01:53:46,810 Asking for approval on that. 2226 01:53:47,170 --> 01:53:49,970 What we have up here right now is is block A. 2227 01:53:50,730 --> 01:53:52,530 And to the. 2228 01:53:54,050 --> 01:53:56,770 Hard corner of Holiday Blvd. IN. 2229 01:53:56,850 --> 01:53:58,330 And Murray Holiday. 2230 01:53:58,730 --> 01:53:59,530 In that area. 2231 01:53:59,890 --> 01:54:00,770 We have. 2232 01:54:01,810 --> 01:54:02,890 Two buildings. 2233 01:54:03,250 --> 01:54:05,020 2 restaurants to be going in there. 2234 01:54:05,370 --> 01:54:05,930 And then? 2235 01:54:06,050 --> 01:54:06,650 On the. 2236 01:54:07,250 --> 01:54:11,290 Incoming side of the pad on the South side we have another restaurant that we're. 2237 01:54:11,410 --> 01:54:13,250 Sign the lease within days to. 2238 01:54:13,370 --> 01:54:15,140 To move into that. So we're really excited to have. 2239 01:54:15,610 --> 01:54:16,850 Sit down restaurants. 2240 01:54:17,130 --> 01:54:20,250 In holiday on this site we've been waiting for a long time and. 2241 01:54:20,650 --> 01:54:23,250 We've we've we're right there at the finish line so. 2242 01:54:25,740 --> 01:54:28,300 I might mention that we see the translucent. 2243 01:54:28,770 --> 01:54:30,290 Signage out front. 2244 01:54:30,650 --> 01:54:31,450 Of the corner. 2245 01:54:31,850 --> 01:54:32,730 Hard corner there. 2246 01:54:33,570 --> 01:54:34,770 We'll be coming back. 2247 01:54:34,850 --> 01:54:37,410 For final approval and what that will look like, but. 2248 01:54:37,930 --> 01:54:40,010 We're currently in the design stage for that. 2249 01:54:41,720 --> 01:54:44,940 And then on block C we have visual comfort that. 2250 01:54:46,690 --> 01:54:49,170 That has signed the lease and we're real close to. 2251 01:54:49,370 --> 01:54:50,490 Breaking ground on that. 2252 01:54:51,160 --> 01:54:53,020 Store we're really excited about. 2253 01:54:54,370 --> 01:54:55,810 That particular vendor and. 2254 01:54:56,210 --> 01:54:58,130 Ties in with Roth Living and. 2255 01:54:58,530 --> 01:54:59,330 And the other. 2256 01:54:59,450 --> 01:55:01,010 Retailers that we're bringing. 2257 01:55:01,090 --> 01:55:02,490 To the site there. 2258 01:55:03,250 --> 01:55:06,090 So if Adam opened any questions, you might have and. 2259 01:55:06,930 --> 01:55:08,170 This is Commissioner Prince. 2260 01:55:08,330 --> 01:55:11,770 Will there really be a giant ampersand on the building? 2261 01:55:11,970 --> 01:55:14,250 There will be that that's actually their. 2262 01:55:15,250 --> 01:55:17,130 Logo and retail. 2263 01:55:18,810 --> 01:55:20,490 OT fund how they. 2264 01:55:21,230 --> 01:55:23,780 Have it in other stores and it's part of their. 2265 01:55:23,890 --> 01:55:25,290 Be branding, yeah, OK. 2266 01:55:25,770 --> 01:55:27,970 Yeah, and they're at very, very high end. 2267 01:55:28,850 --> 01:55:29,850 Lighting Store. 2268 01:55:30,010 --> 01:55:30,730 In fact, our. 2269 01:55:31,090 --> 01:55:32,370 Local Marianne. 2270 01:55:32,970 --> 01:55:34,690 Emery Barton, the designer. 2271 01:55:35,010 --> 01:55:36,650 I don't know if you know her in the community. 2272 01:55:37,250 --> 01:55:38,850 But she's created a separate. 2273 01:55:38,970 --> 01:55:39,890 Product line. 2274 01:55:40,290 --> 01:55:41,490 And this is a national. 2275 01:55:41,650 --> 01:55:48,490 Company and they're showcasing her product in this in this building we'll have local. 2276 01:55:50,210 --> 01:55:51,610 Notoriety from. 2277 01:55:51,970 --> 01:55:54,210 Local designer that will be represented there. 2278 01:55:55,380 --> 01:55:56,740 I believe the original. 2279 01:55:57,410 --> 01:56:00,450 Exterior to this on the highland and. 2280 01:56:01,210 --> 01:56:03,330 Entry What is it? Rodeo? 2281 01:56:03,410 --> 01:56:04,410 Rodeo, Rodeo. 2282 01:56:05,090 --> 01:56:06,210 On that side of it. 2283 01:56:06,610 --> 01:56:09,690 Originally, when you presented it, it looked like it was pretty much just. 2284 01:56:10,050 --> 01:56:11,850 Brick wall on each side and. 2285 01:56:11,970 --> 01:56:13,930 You've changed that then. Yeah, we've. 2286 01:56:14,010 --> 01:56:16,250 We've updated that. In fact, here's a visual. 2287 01:56:17,920 --> 01:56:22,440 And so. 2288 01:56:23,170 --> 01:56:25,130 That would be what the building would look like as your. 2289 01:56:25,970 --> 01:56:26,570 I'm sorry. 2290 01:56:28,970 --> 01:56:29,850 You know we have. 2291 01:56:30,250 --> 01:56:31,170 The river. 2292 01:56:31,370 --> 01:56:32,650 And we have. 2293 01:56:32,730 --> 01:56:35,130 Landscaping before you even come to the building, so. 2294 01:56:35,650 --> 01:56:36,610 From Hyland. 2295 01:56:36,730 --> 01:56:39,930 It's highly unlikely to be much visibility at all from Highland. 2296 01:56:40,650 --> 01:56:42,130 But when you come into the site. 2297 01:56:42,330 --> 01:56:43,530 You're going to be really. 2298 01:56:45,110 --> 01:56:47,630 Overwhelmed with the really nice high end design and. 2299 01:56:47,890 --> 01:56:48,850 And windows and. 2300 01:56:49,410 --> 01:56:50,850 And entry to the building. 2301 01:56:54,430 --> 01:56:55,220 So we're excited. 2302 01:56:55,370 --> 01:56:56,450 So it's not just. 2303 01:56:56,610 --> 01:56:57,930 Brick wall facing. 2304 01:56:58,010 --> 01:56:59,410 Rodeo anymore. 2305 01:57:00,150 --> 01:57:03,990 Well, there's because this is the interior of the parking lot, OK. 2306 01:57:08,730 --> 01:57:09,970 So is this the? 2307 01:57:10,780 --> 01:57:13,940 What is this view and the picture they've got on the screen? It just went away. 2308 01:57:14,450 --> 01:57:17,890 This picture here, this one right here. Where is this from? What am I looking at it from? 2309 01:57:17,930 --> 01:57:21,020 That's Highland Drive. This is Highland Dr. Highland Drive right there, Yeah. 2310 01:57:21,530 --> 01:57:22,450 So is that block. 2311 01:57:22,650 --> 01:57:25,930 D then that we're seeing. So like that's where the. 2312 01:57:26,050 --> 01:57:30,530 Yeah, Deep D is to the right. Acai Bowl is right there. 2313 01:57:30,650 --> 01:57:33,130 OK, Chipotle and OK and. 2314 01:57:33,610 --> 01:57:34,450 And this would be. 2315 01:57:34,530 --> 01:57:35,490 To the. 2316 01:57:36,810 --> 01:57:37,410 North. 2317 01:57:37,490 --> 01:57:40,010 Yeah, but there's a lot more landscaping there than. 2318 01:57:40,130 --> 01:57:42,010 It's representing this rendering. 2319 01:57:42,450 --> 01:57:45,250 In fact, if ridiculous site plan that kind of really gives a. 2320 01:57:46,090 --> 01:57:47,210 Indication of. 2321 01:57:47,530 --> 01:57:48,610 How dense that? 2322 01:57:49,940 --> 01:57:52,460 Landscaping will be also that will complement. 2323 01:57:53,290 --> 01:57:54,530 So have trees and. 2324 01:57:55,050 --> 01:57:56,610 Really complicated. 2325 01:57:59,050 --> 01:57:59,210 OK. 2326 01:58:09,450 --> 01:58:10,410 And then I noticed. 2327 01:58:11,270 --> 01:58:13,540 You relented and put in parking islands. 2328 01:58:13,730 --> 01:58:14,250 We did. 2329 01:58:14,810 --> 01:58:17,690 Or tree islands, yeah, we're, I think that's. 2330 01:58:17,850 --> 01:58:20,970 That's a wise choice and we appreciate that recommendation. 2331 01:58:21,410 --> 01:58:22,770 And it conforms with the. 2332 01:58:22,970 --> 01:58:23,890 STMP so. 2333 01:58:25,010 --> 01:58:27,810 Are there currently trees along the river? 2334 01:58:27,970 --> 01:58:28,570 There are. 2335 01:58:28,650 --> 01:58:31,130 Right here. Are you planning on leaving them or take them out? 2336 01:58:31,530 --> 01:58:34,090 We would leave whatever is in the landscape those are. 2337 01:58:34,210 --> 01:58:35,450 Intentionally planted. 2338 01:58:36,090 --> 01:58:36,930 Back when. 2339 01:58:37,050 --> 01:58:38,500 The site was reclaimed by. 2340 01:58:38,890 --> 01:58:39,730 General growth. 2341 01:58:40,290 --> 01:58:41,570 And we? 2342 01:58:41,890 --> 01:58:45,250 Doesn't stay yeah, because they they aren't represented here. 2343 01:58:49,850 --> 01:58:51,610 Probably not an actual representation. 2344 01:58:54,850 --> 01:58:57,730 Yeah, there are. Yeah, it's it's actually pretty dense. 2345 01:58:58,090 --> 01:58:59,530 Yeah, you're gonna drive by. 2346 01:59:03,330 --> 01:59:05,570 Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that the plan wasn't too. 2347 01:59:06,370 --> 01:59:07,450 Remove them. 2348 01:59:07,570 --> 01:59:08,820 Yeah, no, we're not going to remove. 2349 01:59:08,890 --> 01:59:10,210 OK. Yeah, they're permanent. 2350 01:59:11,570 --> 01:59:13,970 Beautiful trees there that have been planted so. 2351 01:59:16,610 --> 01:59:18,010 In that. 2352 01:59:18,090 --> 01:59:20,050 Same picture. 2353 01:59:21,060 --> 01:59:21,980 In one of these. 2354 01:59:22,170 --> 01:59:25,930 One of these pictures of this site and I think it might have just been talking about. 2355 01:59:26,130 --> 01:59:26,570 Block C. 2356 01:59:27,970 --> 01:59:28,970 Instead of all of them. 2357 01:59:29,690 --> 01:59:31,330 It does mention that there's. 2358 01:59:31,410 --> 01:59:32,610 A plan for. 2359 01:59:32,690 --> 01:59:36,730 4243 hundred square feet of Kentucky bluegrass sod. 2360 01:59:40,540 --> 01:59:41,500 I would urge you. 2361 01:59:41,610 --> 01:59:45,090 Not to use Kentucky bluegrass, thought it's one of the highest water sods. 2362 01:59:45,890 --> 01:59:48,610 There are lower water options that give the same visual effect. 2363 01:59:49,250 --> 01:59:51,690 And just right back to the napkin would. 2364 01:59:51,810 --> 01:59:52,770 Mean that would use. 2365 01:59:52,890 --> 01:59:59,130 130,000 to 200,000 gallons of water a year. You have a recommendation on what you. 2366 01:59:59,290 --> 02:00:00,050 Recommend there umm. 2367 02:00:00,890 --> 02:00:02,250 Just my briefing search. 2368 02:00:02,370 --> 02:00:03,490 Tall Fescues. 2369 02:00:03,610 --> 02:00:07,090 Or fine fescues can give that lawn like look. 2370 02:00:07,210 --> 02:00:08,570 Don't do the fine queue. 2371 02:00:09,130 --> 02:00:10,490 You don't like them? No. 2372 02:00:10,690 --> 02:00:17,410 As a as a guy that spent 20 years in the lawn industry I can tell you that tall fescue you're going to have to mow like crazy and 2373 02:00:17,410 --> 02:00:24,130 fine fescue burn up the 2nd that the sun hits it or let it grow longer if you have an inside line on Buffalo grass. 2374 02:00:24,570 --> 02:00:25,250 Or. 2375 02:00:25,330 --> 02:00:26,930 Dwarf red fescue. 2376 02:00:27,530 --> 02:00:30,410 There are some mixes coming out of US. 2377 02:00:31,210 --> 02:00:33,170 Now that they're breeding for. 2378 02:00:33,530 --> 02:00:35,330 Drought tolerance and less water. 2379 02:00:35,410 --> 02:00:37,180 I don't have a lot of information on those but. 2380 02:00:37,370 --> 02:00:40,130 Their their existing, yeah. 2381 02:00:40,210 --> 02:00:41,890 Anyway, so I would just recommend. 2382 02:00:42,290 --> 02:00:43,410 Angela, Yeah. 2383 02:00:43,850 --> 02:00:47,090 We'll, we'll research that now. Start landscape architect to. 2384 02:00:47,250 --> 02:00:49,450 Take a look at that. I think that's a really good. 2385 02:00:49,970 --> 02:00:53,450 I mean the last we have to spend on watering yet get the same result, we're all. 2386 02:00:54,530 --> 02:00:57,210 On the same page we want to do that ground cover. 2387 02:00:57,490 --> 02:01:00,060 Are people walking through here or? 2388 02:01:00,170 --> 02:01:01,970 Could could a ground cover work? 2389 02:01:03,530 --> 02:01:05,890 We need to do a bunch of different ground covers that. 2390 02:01:06,210 --> 02:01:07,450 Give you a color and. 2391 02:01:08,740 --> 02:01:14,260 Heartiness without a lot of water if they don't need to withstand traffic. I mean, if you're open that, we'll explore that. 2392 02:01:14,370 --> 02:01:16,450 And ask our landscape architect. 2393 02:01:16,530 --> 02:01:20,010 Brian, what would be recommended there? There? I do know there's a landscape architect I've worked with in the past and she's in 2394 02:01:20,010 --> 02:01:23,490 charge of. 2395 02:01:23,690 --> 02:01:24,570 Drought resistant. 2396 02:01:24,890 --> 02:01:27,530 Landscape and she's an expert in the valley and I could. 2397 02:01:27,650 --> 02:01:29,570 Maybe reach out to her and ask her. 2398 02:01:29,690 --> 02:01:33,090 What are a couple of the materials we could use that would give us the same? 2399 02:01:33,490 --> 02:01:34,650 But save water. 2400 02:01:35,370 --> 02:01:37,690 He can, you know, because right now we're.