[0:00] Four items on the agenda.
[0:02] There's five, but #5 doesn't really count.
[0:06] And two of them pertain to the same thing.
[0:09] So with that.
[0:11] We will roll right into the.
[0:13] First item which is the woods lot.
[0:16] Three PUD amendment.
[0:19] OK.
[0:21] And then so you're aware I'm.
[0:24] Managing the Woods Lot 3 and then John will take on items 2-3 and four.
[0:29] So Woods lot 3, we've seen this PUD before related to a different lot. I believe that was a lot.
[0:39] 2 So this is lot 3.
[0:41] And in in your packet there was an exhibit that showed.
[0:48] Kind of how they're shifting the building area.
[0:50] It went.
[0:52] On the Northside.
[0:54] And they're taking an equivalent area from the Northside that's all landscaped currently.
[0:59] Bringing the building area up to where the house is currently. So the house is still in the in the existing building area.
[1:06] And then they're shifting that.
[1:09] What was?
[1:10] Over there as.
[1:11] Available building area to the South side.
[1:16] Which is kind of by their driveway and has a little bit more.
[1:22] Landscaped area in it.
[1:24] I'll pull it up so that we can take a look at that.
[1:27] So is this the one that's right out that buffers up onto the?
[1:30] 6200 or is this a different no, This one is further back.
[1:35] So you can see in the.
[1:38] Planned unit development.
[1:39] This was the one that we looked at before.
[1:42] Here's plot #2.
[1:45] This is lot #3.
[1:48] So we did.
[1:49] One before.
[1:51] OK, so have we seen 3?
[1:53] In this mission.
[1:56] We saw Lot 1 and that's where they wanted to build the big garage and.
[2:01] So in this one, just to make sure I understand.
[2:04] The summary of it they are.
[2:07] Wanting to just move the accessory dwelling unit.
[2:10] Buildable lot.
[2:12] Plot to the other side of the house.
[2:15] Yes.
[2:15] So you can see that the.
[2:18] I don't.
[2:19] Do you all have?
[2:20] Screens up there, yes, Yes.
[2:22] Yeah. So you've got the building area that was here before.
[2:25] Here's this structure.
[2:27] And where it kind of has this?
[2:29] Unique edge around it.
[2:30] But the building area was. Is this dotted line that goes around?
[2:35] Out here.
[2:38] And then the new modification.
[2:41] Is taking.
[2:42] 22,192 square feet.
[2:46] That was within the allowed building area.
[2:48] Previously, umm.
[2:51] And shifting it down to this side.
[2:55] So this becomes the new buildable area.
[2:58] And does that comply with all the setbacks and?
[3:04] Everything, yes, So they're maintaining the same.
[3:07] Rear set back.
[3:08] It is moving closer to.
[3:11] Lot 4.
[3:14] But there wasn't a set back in that.
[3:17] In that PUD besides what the?
[3:19] Previous building area was.
[3:21] Umm.
[3:25] And as far as the PUD itself, we aren't giving any consideration to anything.
[3:30] That they have internally. This is just. Can they move it from?
[3:35] One side to the other.
[3:36] From the city standpoint, right?
[3:39] On this side there was 40 feet.
[3:41] So it will increase the set back on this side.
[3:44] And then decide that they're moving it to. It doesn't look like they have their distance labeled, but you can ask the applicant.
[3:51] What this distance is from?
[3:53] The new building area.
[3:55] To the property line.
[3:58] And just for my own edification, is there?
[4:03] Existing structures.
[4:06] On lots.
[4:08] 2 or 4.
[4:10] Does that change the dynamic and how close it would be to four versus how close it would be to two?
[4:17] Yes, so.
[4:19] And I think this is probably your best view.
[4:21] On this.
[4:22] A lot too. It will be further away from the structure on Lot 2.
[4:27] Lot 4 it will be closer to this structure.
[4:30] This lot has a slope on this side.
[4:34] They added this.
[4:36] Accessory building.
[4:38] In quite a few years back.
[4:41] But that's why this house is built closer this way is because of a slope that's there.
[4:48] So that the new structure will be.
[4:50] Closer to.
[4:52] This one, umm.
[4:53] Umm.
[4:56] By I don't know if they have.
[5:00] Their dimension of what they're coming out of.
[5:05] But they won't reach out of their window and shake hands with the southern neighbor that close or anything, right? No, they'll
[5:09] still be.
[5:12] Pretty far.
[5:14] If I were to estimate age, I would probably say.
[5:20] 30 feet away from.
[5:22] It's going to be between 30 and 40. This is 10 feet for the.
[5:26] Public utility easement.
[5:34] Yeah, probably around 30.
[5:36] I thought the packet said.
[5:37] 27 feet somewhere, but I don't.
[5:40] That may be in their narrative.
[5:43] OK. I don't know if that's the rear side.
[5:52] And city staff and TRC have looked this over and it checks all the boxes.
[5:58] Yes.
[5:59] OK.
[6:02] I have a question just.
[6:05] Well, we rarely do. We run into.
[6:07] Properties that are behind gates.
[6:11] And so I never remember to ask about it, because then we don't see one for a while. But what's?
[6:16] Best solution when the property we're supposed to?
[6:19] Drive by and review.
[6:22] Is behind a locked gate.
[6:27] Google, I mean, it's hard to trespass. I mean I.
[6:29] I hiked my leg over the fence. You can always get in touch with the.
[6:32] Planner and then they can contact the owner for the gate key code.
[6:37] All right.
[6:39] Thank you.
[6:44] Any other questions on item 1?
[6:48] All right, let's.
[6:50] Turn to John for.
[6:53] The Casper Cottage that is not located.
[6:57] At 4910 S Holiday.
[7:03] So item two and three on your agenda tonight is a continuation of.
[7:09] Historic Site.
[7:12] Preservation.
[7:13] Attempts by property owner.
[7:15] Mr. Ron Hilden.
[7:17] So the reason why there are two items is the request is twofold.
[7:20] One, well, primarily you have you made a recommendation to?
[7:26] Make this site historic.
[7:28] The City Council.
[7:29] Approved that recommendation and.
[7:31] Now is on this sites the City of Holidays historic site designation list.
[7:36] And those properties.
[7:39] Are afforded a few.
[7:42] Allowances that not any other properties in the city are allowed to do and.
[7:46] That's the intent.
[7:47] Of that is to sustain.
[7:49] A preservation effort because we don't have funds or anything to apply for or grants to apply for to maintain these properties.
[7:57] Extra land uses are allowed or afforded the property owner.
[8:01] So that they can bolster.
[8:02] That sustainability effort.
[8:06] In doing so, there might be some modifications to the property as well.
[8:11] Modifications to the facade, changing the roof, maybe putting an addition on.
[8:15] Changing the site plan.
[8:18] That is also an additional conditional approval from the Planning Commission.
[8:22] So the proposal.
[8:24] That is being brought to the city is 1A site modification.
[8:29] There's some changes to the facade of the building that's being proposed.
[8:34] And then?
[8:35] They are not related to each other, so you can.
[8:39] Consider each other.
[8:40] Just consider them separately.
[8:42] They're not exclusive to each other.
[8:45] The separate.
[8:47] Proposal is to add.
[8:48] Additional land uses to the property. 1 is a antique store.
[8:53] So a retail use.
[8:55] And then secondary to that.
[8:58] Is a secondary residential unit.
[9:00] That's being proposed.
[9:02] By the applicant.
[9:04] It would be better to have that conversation on.
[9:07] What the details of those uses would be with that the applicant?
[9:13] The TRC has reviewed this.
[9:15] At face value.
[9:16] Really part of the general plan in the historic preservation code.
[9:20] What we are intending to.
[9:22] Review is.
[9:24] Maintaining historic property.
[9:25] In perpetuity.
[9:28] So how these two uses relate to maintaining the historic use as a pioneer home is the question I think you need to have answered.
[9:35] And and how those uses bolster?
[9:38] The historic preservation ordinance and the goals of the city itself. So.
[9:44] I think there's still a lot of questions that need to be answered so.
[9:47] Staff's recommendation is to continue the discussions to give the OR the applicant.
[9:52] Time to answer those questions for you.
[9:57] OK, so.
[10:03] To make sure.
[10:04] I understand this correctly.
[10:09] The underlying is.
[10:13] For this body to determine.
[10:15] If the.
[10:17] Applicant is.
[10:19] Doing these things to try and preserve that.
[10:23] Small home.
[10:25] In perpetuity.
[10:27] Aside from what's already afforded to it through the PUD and its historical designation.
[10:35] On the city registry, essentially yes.
[10:38] OK.
[10:43] Questions on item two or three.
[10:48] That need to be answered before we get into the discussion with the applicant.
[10:52] Formulated questions, but.
[10:53] OK, Yeah.
[10:55] It's all right. We'll have lots of discussion points, I'm sure.
[10:58] OK. And I think one both I'll go, sorry.
[11:01] Well, I'm remembering.
[11:03] When we saw the PUD come before us, that included this cottage.
[11:08] That there was.
[11:10] A great deal of.
[11:12] Discussion about how.
[11:14] This was going to be a residence.
[11:16] They were going to live there.
[11:20] The plat.
[11:22] Has 6 lots within it.
[11:24] This lot where this house is now is designated as like the common area.
[11:29] Of the plat.
[11:30] So it's a lot 2 way within that subdivision.
[11:33] Used to be.
[11:34] For Clubhouse, you know, whatever.
[11:37] The HOA would like to have that for.
[11:39] But the the PUD was for six units for that that whole subdivision.
[11:43] Or on the north side too, On the South side.
[11:46] OK. Thank you.
[11:48] And with it being in a PUD.
[11:51] If the HOA decided, hey, we don't.
[11:54] Care about this small structure and would rather see a swimming pool in there.
[11:59] Is there any kind of?
[12:00] Preservation.
[12:02] Afforded to it.
[12:03] By the.
[12:05] Designation through the city.
[12:07] Preservation as being.
[12:08] The property no.
[12:09] They can still use the property if the property owner decides to tear it down and put a pool in its place.
[12:14] That's his their prerogative.
[12:16] OK. And.
[12:19] If we were to move forward with this.
[12:22] Could they still do that if they wanted to?
[12:24] Yes.
[12:25] OK, you have new owner, Yes?
[12:27] So really, there's nothing that preserves it.
[12:29] From that fate in my hypothetical example.
[12:33] By approving this or not approving it.
[12:34] Right, OK.
[12:36] Even though it's already been designated as historic.
[12:39] Correct.
[12:41] Yes.
[12:42] OK.
[12:44] As well make sure I understand.
[12:45] Nothing in what I'm walking into.
[12:47] Nothing in your historic preservation ordinance.
[12:50] Remove the property owners.
[12:51] Right to further develop the property as they see fit.
[12:58] Would seen as.
[13:01] As it's the common.
[13:03] Area for the PUD which is the.
[13:06] 6.
[13:07] 4 on the N, 2 on the South.
[13:10] Would trying to make it?
[13:15] A buildable lot.
[13:16] Be in agreement with that if that were the determination.
[13:21] Would be bringing a PUD amendment just like.
[13:25] 3 isn't for the woods.
[13:27] Back to you to amend that conditional use permit.
[13:30] For that.
[13:31] Property for the PUD itself.
[13:34] Thank you. OK.
[13:36] All right. And I know we're going to go just.
[13:39] Mine minute over here on our official meeting, but the last.
[13:43] Thing that we have on our agenda is Royal Holiday Hills Block A and C final plan.
[13:50] Which this is the.
[13:52] Trees and parking lot.
[13:54] Because we already settled the structure from the last meeting, is that right?
[13:58] Right. So you left off with a final.
[14:01] For landscaping and architecture to come back.
[14:05] For approvals.
[14:07] Staffs reviewed what's been.
[14:08] Reproposed by the applicant.
[14:11] The landscaping plan that's in your packet is one that complies with the ordinance.
[14:16] The designs of the buildings.
[14:19] Are better they they kind of meet.
[14:22] A lot of the elements that I was.
[14:24] Hoping that that.
[14:25] North building would do.
[14:28] But the applicants brought their design team here and they can go through that with you. But.
[14:32] The concerns were.
[14:34] Being into such a prominent corner.
[14:36] Turning its back to Murray Holiday Road and having that.
[14:39] That corner lose its prominence, so to speak.
[14:43] Was of my concern as far as being design oriented.
[14:47] So the the.
[14:49] Tell a story windows that have been.
[14:51] Put in your packet kind of address. That gives it a more prominence.
[14:55] A prominent.
[14:57] Than what it used to have. Plus they've added quite a bit of additional landscaping to that site.
[15:03] And then in this rendering that.
[15:05] We're currently on.
[15:06] The shadow boxes are the signage that's going to go there. You're seeing through.
[15:11] Those signs, Yeah. The project site signs, yeah.
[15:15] OK. All right. Any questions on this one?
[15:19] All right. With that, we will go ahead and close the.
[15:23] Work meeting.
[15:24] And we will roll right into our official meeting.
[15:28] Or do you need a second to pause and restart John?
[15:32] No, we shouldn't need to pause.
[15:35] OK. All right.
[15:37] So with that.
[15:38] Good evening, everyone. Good afternoon still, whichever way you want to look at it.
[15:42] Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission, April 21st, 2026.
[15:48] We have all.
[15:50] Commissioners and attendants except for Tiffany and.
[15:54] Cunningham.
[15:56] And we have the four items on the agenda tonight.
[16:00] One note on those looking at the agenda that was printed is that.
[16:04] Two and Three are located at 2394 E instead of Murray Holiday Rd. instead of 4910 S Holiday.
[16:14] And with that, we do have an opening statement that we read for members of the public at every meeting, and I have asked
[16:18] Commissioner Font if she will do that for us now.
[16:23] Certainly, umm.
[16:24] The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special
[16:28] studies.
[16:32] Make recommendations to the City Council and propose zoning map and ordinance changes and approve conditional uses in
[16:36] subdivisions.
[16:40] The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications.
[16:44] Rather, acts on applications as they are submitted.
[16:48] Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings.
[16:53] Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda.
[16:56] Where the location? The nature of the neighborhood?
[16:59] Existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are noted.
[17:04] Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff.
[17:10] The city's general plan, zoning ordinance and other reports.
[17:14] By all verbal and written comments.
[17:16] And by evidence submitted.
[17:18] All of which are part of the public record.
[17:22] Thank you very much, Commissioner Font.
[17:24] All right, and with that, the first item on our agenda this evening is the Woods lot.
[17:31] Three PUD amendment for 6325 S.
[17:35] And Kerry is going to walk us through.
[17:39] The details of that.
[17:52] All right. Thank you, Chairman Roche.
[17:56] So application is for an amendment to a planned unit development.
[18:01] This PUD was originally approved in 2004.
[18:06] Since then, we've seen a couple of amendments on other lots in the beauty.
[18:10] This amendment is just for Lot 3.
[18:13] Which is the second plot from the South end.
[18:17] Of the PUD.
[18:19] And the applicant is wanting to move a previously approved building area.
[18:25] Seen on the screen, it is the dashed.
[18:30] Wants to remove the portion to the north side of the existing structure.
[18:37] To the South side.
[18:39] Slightly different.
[18:41] Configuration.
[18:42] But the same.
[18:43] Total square footage.
[18:46] This will preserve landscaping on the north side of the structure.
[18:50] There will be some landscaping that's affected on the South side of the structure.
[18:55] We'll bring a.
[18:57] Portion of the structure that's currently.
[18:59] Outside of the building area into the building area, you can see that.
[19:04] Small little rectangle the.
[19:05] Of the house that comes out there.
[19:09] So that will be brought in.
[19:11] I'm not sure how that ended up that way, but.
[19:14] It will fix it.
[19:16] Setbacks on the South side are going to be affected by this.
[19:21] I don't have the dimensions of how far back the existing house is.
[19:25] On that South property line.
[19:28] Estimated about 35 feet from the property line as to where the.
[19:33] The new building envelope will.
[19:35] Will be modified too.
[19:38] And the applicant provided a summary of the project.
[19:42] It's to.
[19:43] Add on to the house on that side and keep some of the landscaping improvements that have been put in on the Northside.
[19:50] I believe there are.
[19:53] There's one or two trees.
[19:55] Detailed in the staff report there in that area.
[19:59] Recommendation is to.
[20:01] Have those be replaced?
[20:04] If they're removed or affected by.
[20:07] Any potential addition on that?
[20:09] South side of the house.
[20:12] We did discuss in the work meeting.
[20:14] The property on Lot 4, which is to the South of this property.
[20:19] That house is built.
[20:21] Closer to the property line due to.
[20:24] A slope.
[20:27] From the South side.
[20:29] Of the property.
[20:30] So this will bring.
[20:32] Proposed structure closer to.
[20:35] What is Lot for?
[20:36] So you can see there.
[20:39] Lot 4 is pretty close to.
[20:42] The the shared property line between those two lots.
[20:47] Changing the building area will.
[20:49] Will increase or sorry, will decrease.
[20:52] Total setbacks between structures, but not be any closer than what the.
[20:57] What the house on lot 4 has as a set back.
[21:01] I'll have the applicant come up if.
[21:03] They are here and they can talk about the project a little bit more.
[21:07] OK. Thank you.
[21:14] Good afternoon, everybody. I'm Robert Schaefer. I'm the actual owner of the house.
[21:18] Bobby Panko is my stepson and the.
[21:21] Contractor.
[21:22] I basically get we've.
[21:25] What we're planning to do is build.
[21:28] A garage.
[21:29] In that spot that is identical in architecture to the existing garage.
[21:34] The reason for doing this is we're converting the existing garage.
[21:38] Which is fully plumbed, fully heated and so on.
[21:41] Into an apartment for my 93 year old mother-in-law.
[21:45] And so we need to have A2 car garage.
[21:48] To replace that one, and that's what that will become.
[21:51] As you can see, we've got a large rounded driveway there. It's also part of the.
[21:55] Turn around area, we're not impacting the exact the turn around area at all for.
[22:01] Trucks that come into the neighborhood and that sort of thing.
[22:04] And.
[22:05] We're trying to do this because my 93 year old mother-in-law will not move into an assisted living facility and she wants us to
[22:09] take care of her.
[22:14] OK, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have. Questions for the applicant.
[22:20] All right. Thank you very much. Go ahead and have a seat.
[22:24] All right, and.
[22:28] Just real quick.
[22:28] Question for city staff? There are.
[22:31] I'm looking at my packet here. There are two different motions.
[22:35] For this.
[22:37] In the packet, there's a subdivision amendment, and then there's a.
[22:40] PUD conditionally used.
[22:42] Permit amendment.
[22:43] Yes. So same as we've seen with other PUD's, it affects the subdivision plat.
[22:49] So there's a motion to change the subdivision.
[22:53] Itself.
[22:54] And then also changes then to the conditional use permit for a planned unit development.
[23:00] So some slight variation between those two findings.
[23:04] There's not as many findings on the.
[23:08] Conditional use.
[23:09] Permit for the PUD.
[23:11] Because.
[23:12] Conditional use permits.
[23:14] Related to PUD's are based off of.
[23:16] What does site entails? Is it meeting the?
[23:19] Intent and purpose of a PUD which is preservation of open space.
[23:26] So that the findings for the.
[23:28] The conditional use are geared toward.
[23:31] What is in our PUD ordinance?
[23:34] So do we need to have?
[23:36] Both motions and.
[23:39] Both loaded on then.
[23:40] In this OK.
[23:42] Just want to make sure when it comes time for that, that.
[23:44] I know the direction we're going with this, so thank you for that clarification.
[23:48] All right. And this is public hearing, so.
[23:52] We will open this up to members of the public who wish to speak on item one at this time if you do wish to speak on item 1.
[23:59] We asked.
[24:00] That when you come up to the pulpit, you state your name and address for the record.
[24:05] And then also try and keep your remarks to 3 minutes or less, and if someone has gone before you, try not to.
[24:11] Making all the same comments and points they've made, just.
[24:15] A Ditto will suffice.
[24:18] We invite anyone who wishes to come up and speak on this, this time now.
[24:25] Once. Twice.
[24:27] All right, looks like everyone's here for the next event, so.
[24:31] With that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing then.
[24:34] Commissioners, any questions?
[24:36] Chair, I have a question regarding the.
[24:40] Trees. Umm.
[24:42] The the the suggested motions for both the subdivision.
[24:46] And the PUD refer to.
[24:50] More trees being.
[24:51] Preserved.
[24:52] Then removed.
[24:53] Or that any trees that are removed have to be replaced.
[24:59] With an equivalent tree canopy at maturity, is that?
[25:02] Does the applicant have that same understanding?
[25:05] Regarding trees.
[25:11] OK.
[25:12] And in case that didn't get picked up by the mic, the applicant.
[25:16] Did a note that in the affirmative. Yes. All right.
[25:20] So unless commissioners, there's any further discussion on this, it sounds like you know.
[25:27] If I had the means, I'd want my 93 year old mom to stay in my house instead of a care facility if I could afford it for her so.
[25:34] We just have to get it built before just, yeah.
[25:37] You know have to make sure it's.
[25:38] There, umm.
[25:42] This is Commissioner Prince.
[25:44] I Motion for approval of a subdivision amendment to lock.
[25:48] Three of the Woods planned unit development of four lot residential development.
[25:52] Within the R143 zone located at 6325 S.
[25:57] 2710 E.
[25:59] Finding that the.
[26:00] Proposal.
[26:01] Includes the findings as listed in the packet.
[26:04] And that.
[26:08] The.
[26:12] The applicant follow all of the conditions that were suggested.
[26:16] By the.
[26:17] Technical review committee.
[26:20] This Commissioner Baron, I'll second that.
[26:22] All right, we have a motion and a second. We'll call for a vote. Commissioner fault.
[26:26] Aye, Commissioner Prince. Aye, Commissioner gong aye.
[26:29] Commissioner Baron Aye and Chair Roach votes aye, so that one.
[26:34] Moves on and then there is a second motion attached to this.
[26:39] This is Commissioner Prince.
[26:41] I Motion for approval of an amendment to the conditional use permit related to the site plan of LOT.
[26:46] Three of the Woods planned unit development.
[26:49] A4 lot residential development within the R143 zone located at 6325 S.
[26:56] 2710 E.
[26:59] With all of the findings included in our packet.
[27:02] And any Commission.
[27:04] Conditions as suggested by the Technical Review Committee.
[27:09] Commissioner Font.
[27:10] Second, all right.
[27:11] And we will call for a vote again, starting down here, Commissioner Baron.
[27:14] Aye, Commissioner Gom. Aye, Commissioner Prince, aye.
[27:17] Commissioner flaunt aye and Chair Roach votes aye.
[27:19] So thank you very much.
[27:22] Good luck with the project.
[27:25] Hope your mom's happy.
[27:29] All right. And then we will turn to City staff, Mr. John Tierlink.
[27:34] To walk us through items 2 and 3.
[27:38] The Casper Cottage.
[27:41] Historical site condition land use permit at 2394 E Murray Holiday Rd.
[27:51] Thank you, Chair. Sorry for the jostling. We're still getting used to our new space here.
[27:56] And who was sitting where, I guess.
[27:59] So item 2:00 and 3:00 tonight are at the same property.
[28:03] The reason why they're separated into two separate items is the first one is we're looking for.
[28:09] A modification to an existing.
[28:12] Historic use.
[28:13] So the applicant is proposing some changes to the facade and roofline.
[28:17] Of a property.
[28:18] The second item.
[28:19] Is at that site.
[28:22] Some additional land uses are being requested.
[28:25] Historic Properties.
[28:27] For the purposes of sustaining.
[28:29] Their uses through.
[28:30] Through the city as.
[28:32] As a goal of historic preservation.
[28:34] Start preservation.
[28:36] A few land uses are allowed to be granted.
[28:40] At historic properties.
[28:41] In order to.
[28:43] Monetarily or?
[28:44] Otherwise.
[28:45] Sustain that property in perpetuity.
[28:48] That list is in your packet as far as ordinance.
[28:53] There's a lot of other uses there.
[28:55] Specifically for this application.
[28:58] The property owner is selecting.
[29:00] Two out of the list.
[29:01] Which would be an antique shop.
[29:04] And then an additional dwelling unit.
[29:07] Staff has reviewed the application in terms of.
[29:10] The goals and purposes of historic preservation.
[29:13] The first item for you to review and make a motion on.
[29:17] I think you can probably hold the public hearing.
[29:20] Together.
[29:20] I don't think you need to separate them, but it's up to you.
[29:24] It might keep it more orderly.
[29:26] Is the the site modification.
[29:29] From TRC's reviews and standpoint.
[29:33] When we talked about site modifications, we're really looking.
[29:37] Comes to mind is the actual site landscaping and things like that.
[29:42] Currently, the applicant has not proposed any changes to the site.
[29:46] As far as landscaping, parking areas.
[29:49] Et cetera.
[29:51] Specifically to the facade.
[29:53] And then a small change to the roof.
[29:56] The staff's point of view is there is an assessment of the property when it was designated historic.
[30:02] As a crosswind style of the early 1900s.
[30:06] I believe the applicant is looking to move toward.
[30:09] More of a period.
[30:10] Element.
[30:12] The applicant is missing or the application is missing some.
[30:15] Materials and some details as to how that would particularly take place.
[30:20] So I would be interested in.
[30:22] Having maybe those questions answered.
[30:24] By the Planning Commission.
[30:25] But other than that, that's the extent of the site modification proposed by the.
[30:29] Application.
[30:32] Secondary.
[30:33] To this is a request for.
[30:35] Retail use site.
[30:37] Which would be an antique shop.
[30:39] As well as a residential use for the property.
[30:42] In addition to what the structure?
[30:44] Provides currently.
[30:47] There are some examples of some museums and such in the.
[30:52] The narrative.
[30:54] However, the application.
[30:55] For historic preservation.
[30:57] Is really reviewed.
[30:58] Against.
[30:59] How these additional land uses support?
[31:02] What that historic preservation is intended to maintain.
[31:06] So it would be good for the Planning Commission to moderate a discussion.
[31:10] Along those lines of how these additional land uses.
[31:13] Would support the Casper Cottage as historic pioneer home.
[31:18] So there's still some details that I think can be fleshed out.
[31:23] With the output between the Planning Commission.
[31:25] And the property owner. So the staff's recommendation at this point is to continue that discussion, have some opportunity for.
[31:32] More in depth presentation.
[31:35] But there is a public hearing required for these two items. So having those hearings and making.
[31:41] Consideration based upon the comments given.
[31:45] Is would be the priority of this part of this meeting?
[31:49] I'll be take any other questions you might have.
[31:52] I just have a quick question.
[31:54] Is there an expectation on?
[31:56] A particular architectural.
[31:58] Style that.
[32:00] Is either.
[32:02] Placed on the building as it's remodeled.
[32:05] Or the expectation would be to.
[32:08] Have some examples of what?
[32:11] Trying to shoot for.
[32:12] Essentially so having examples of early 1900s architecture.
[32:16] In its pristine condition.
[32:19] That would be the goal.
[32:21] I so there's no continuation of adjacent architecture.
[32:25] That this kind of replicates some of those same features.
[32:29] The fenestration.
[32:31] I would.
[32:32] Anticipate that that would be provided.
[32:34] Yes, but I'm not seeing those details.
[32:37] Because I'm trying to figure out how the Planning Commission can make a decision with this.
[32:41] Without all the pieces in place.
[32:44] And maybe it's just my lack of understanding of.
[32:46] Historical because it seems that.
[32:49] There needs to be more specificity to.
[32:51] Kind of what I guess they're expecting.
[32:54] Us to be able to decide on.
[32:56] So, OK, thanks.
[32:58] I also have a question.
[33:00] It seems in the past that we've.
[33:02] We've looked at these kinds of projects.
[33:05] We've had more detail relative to the.
[33:08] Business side of the proposal, in other words.
[33:11] Things like parking and.
[33:14] Flow of traffic and.
[33:17] Lighting and those kinds of things, and there doesn't seem to be any.
[33:22] Indication of any of that so.
[33:24] I'm assuming that those are the kinds of.
[33:27] Questions were.
[33:28] To ask the applicant about tonight as well.
[33:31] Yeah. Surrounding with the operation of what that would potentially be is critical for the Planning Commission to understand as
[33:35] additional land use.
[33:39] Because you have those land uses in different zones.
[33:42] There's standards for them and there's reasons why there's standards for them for impact of.
[33:47] Neighboring properties if it's a retail space.
[33:50] So those details are definitely something you would need to know.
[33:55] One on question on parking, is the parking going to be off site then?
[34:00] I would assume so. There's there's a section in the narrative that does talk about using offsite parking.
[34:05] You can use St. OK.
[34:08] And.
[34:11] The zoning on this?
[34:14] I mean, I understand if it's designated.
[34:17] Historic site, it gives it flexibility on that but.
[34:21] I mean, is there any sort of precedent for?
[34:25] In our community, a historic property to be.
[34:33] Business inside of a PUD.
[34:37] Not that I'm aware of, no. Your past application and.
[34:42] Conditional use permit that you granted for the interior design space.
[34:47] Was not into beauty.
[34:49] It was in a subdivision.
[34:50] I believe.
[34:52] But anything that would be.
[34:54] Contrary to the conditions of the PUD if we're considered hypothetically approved.
[34:59] That PUD.
[35:01] Set of conditions would have to be amended.
[35:03] Accordingly.
[35:06] And that's not before us tonight, no.
[35:08] OK.
[35:10] OK. Other questions?
[35:11] City staff.
[35:13] All right, let's hear from the applicant.
[35:26] Ron Hilton, 2390 E.
[35:28] Murray Holiday Rd.
[35:31] Which is directly across the street from the subject property.
[35:35] And also part of the same PUD.
[35:38] So I guess let's start with the modification.
[35:42] If we could look at the.
[35:45] The existing and the proposed facade.
[35:56] There we go.
[36:00] OK, so on the top is what the building currently looks like.
[36:05] And then the one below that is.
[36:08] What we're proposing to make it look like.
[36:10] So the.
[36:14] The original building was actually just a 2 room.
[36:18] Cottage. They call it a shotgun.
[36:20] Cottage, so it was not a cross wing when it was built in 1898.
[36:26] And so that's that larger.
[36:28] Part there with.
[36:31] You know, the kind of the Victorian.
[36:34] Style Gable and so forth.
[36:38] And then the.
[36:39] There was actually 2 editions made.
[36:42] That turned it into the cross wing style.
[36:45] And that was done, we're not sure exactly when, but it was done probably before 1920.
[36:51] Or certainly before 1930.
[36:55] Very different.
[36:58] Construction very.
[37:00] A much poorer quality.
[37:03] So the original building actually was an early adopter of a.
[37:08] I have a poured concrete foundation.
[37:10] And then when they did the addition.
[37:13] It was just several layers of brick.
[37:16] You know under very.
[37:17] Very rudimentary.
[37:20] Yeah, you can see that picture there.
[37:24] And not in great shape at this point.
[37:27] There, there's actually 3.
[37:29] Antique car jacks.
[37:31] Bumper jacks holding up different parts of the floor.
[37:34] Of that edition.
[37:35] So it's in pretty sad shape.
[37:37] But what are int?
[37:40] Intent is is to try and.
[37:43] Preserve the.
[37:45] What might have been the original intent of the builders?
[37:48] So cross wing was a thing at that time?
[37:53] There's and. I didn't include this, but.
[37:56] There's a home.
[37:58] Called the Andrus home.
[38:00] Andrus was a.
[38:02] Significant family and.
[38:03] Holiday history.
[38:05] Milo, Milo.
[38:08] Basically MiTo Andrus.
[38:10] Named after him.
[38:12] The anywhere the Andrews home.
[38:14] Was built around the same time.
[38:16] Slightly early I think.
[38:17] 1894 it was.
[38:20] East of the main intersection of Holiday.
[38:24] But it was a cross wing.
[38:26] Brick. And it had.
[38:30] So what it had that we're.
[38:32] Use as a as a sample of what we want to do is.
[38:37] The roofline was the same for the.
[38:40] Cross wing as it was for the main.
[38:42] Section.
[38:43] The windows were all the same.
[38:45] So we're proposing that they be the same.
[38:49] Now we're actually on the main.
[38:52] The.
[38:54] They enlarged.
[38:55] One of the.
[38:56] One of the windows at one point.
[38:58] And we're proposing to restore that to its original size.
[39:02] And then make the new Windows of the same.
[39:04] Size and style.
[39:06] And also, Leander's home was all brick.
[39:10] The additions that were.
[39:13] Put on this home.
[39:16] In the early 1900s.
[39:18] Of our frame.
[39:19] With sighting.
[39:21] So it's a different exterior finish where?
[39:23] Posing to make it all brick.
[39:25] Similar to the address home.
[39:27] The other thing we're restoring?
[39:30] If you look right in the middle where that.
[39:32] Window is.
[39:33] That was It looks like an addition, but it was actually part of the original.
[39:38] But it was.
[39:40] Not enclosed, it was a port.
[39:43] And it actually has a cement.
[39:46] Found if cement there was.
[39:48] Part of the original cement.
[39:50] Poured concrete foundation so.
[39:52] We're going to return that to being a.
[39:55] Porch and take down those.
[39:57] Those walls, they were added.
[40:00] So the windows.
[40:02] The ports are actually restoring it to the original.
[40:05] And then the cross wing.
[40:09] Essentially trying to.
[40:11] Be similar to other buildings of that time.
[40:15] The Andros home, in particular the Anders home.
[40:18] Was the oldest.
[40:19] Building in central holiday.
[40:22] Until mid.
[40:23] 1970s and unfortunately was torn down.
[40:25] So this is.
[40:27] Actually the oldest historic.
[40:29] Building in the center area of holiday.
[40:32] And so we want to highlight.
[40:34] You know what a building of that.
[40:36] Type. You know what it looked like.
[40:38] We believe.
[40:40] That economics may have been a factor in the original construction. You know, the fact that they just did a.
[40:47] A2 room.
[40:48] Single.
[40:50] Building.
[40:51] Without the crosswing.
[40:54] Because they.
[40:56] The Casper family.
[40:59] Took out a mortgage on the property right after they built it.
[41:03] So suggesting that they you know.
[41:05] You know we're.
[41:06] Kind of financially strapped.
[41:08] And they also had a family dispute.
[41:11] About selling off other parts of the property.
[41:15] The part of this so it was.
[41:17] A larger property at the time.
[41:18] It went all the way to Clearview.
[41:21] And they sold that part that goes into Clearview to the Okeson family.
[41:26] And Oakson Circle right there, that comes off clear. He's named after them, so they were another.
[41:31] Notable family of the time.
[41:33] Anyway, there was a.
[41:34] Controversy in the Casper family is to.
[41:37] Whether or not to sell that, but.
[41:38] You know, they felt like they needed the money, I guess basically. So anyway, bottom line.
[41:43] We feel like they would have done.
[41:45] Moore, the lacrosse wing.
[41:47] Full cosmic design if they'd had the resources at the time. So we're trying to honor that.
[41:52] But we believe that it might have been their original intent.
[41:55] And make it look like.
[41:57] You know other homes of the area.
[41:59] And the time.
[42:01] Anyway, that's basically it for the modification, and there isn't.
[42:05] You know, we have a floor plan and we have the.
[42:08] Elevation, you know the.
[42:10] We haven't maybe provided the level of detail that.
[42:14] It would be needed before we pull a building permit.
[42:18] So you know.
[42:19] That would be something we'd have to.
[42:21] Provide but.
[42:23] There there's a general.
[42:25] Floor plan.
[42:26] Trying to.
[42:28] Basically stay within the same.
[42:30] Floor plan, We're enlarging it a little bit in the back.
[42:35] And but like you see that little notch there?
[42:39] Between the back half and the front.
[42:41] We did that so that we would not.
[42:44] We wanted to keep the.
[42:46] Original back of the building exposed so you could see.
[42:49] The original design there.
[42:52] When they.
[42:52] Put on these new additions, they kind of obliterated whatever was on the West side there.
[42:57] And so you know, that's.
[42:58] Pretty much gone, but.
[43:00] Like I said, we're going to restore the porch.
[43:02] And.
[43:06] He asked about parking.
[43:08] So basically.
[43:11] Ron, if I can just pause you real quick right there. So you've talked about the modification now.
[43:18] Quick question I have, do we have any?
[43:20] Didn't get a chance to go walk around your property?
[43:24] Do we have any kind of pictures or anything of what the back of the property looks like currently?
[43:29] In the packet.
[43:34] I didn't see.
[43:35] OK, the back is so the back of the main.
[43:39] Two room cottage.
[43:41] Is also brick, of course.
[43:44] There's a window and there's actually.
[43:46] You can see where there used to be a door.
[43:49] That's been bricked over.
[43:50] And that would have been typical of the shotgun design to have a door.
[43:54] Like that?
[43:55] And we don't plan to restore the door, but.
[43:58] It's an interesting feature.
[44:01] OK.
[44:03] All right. Umm.
[44:05] And so you're going to remove.
[44:07] As the original brick wall still.
[44:11] And door still in that.
[44:13] Torched off area then where you're proposing to put in the window.
[44:17] So the.
[44:19] The brick wall.
[44:20] On the.
[44:21] West side of that porch is pretty much gone.
[44:25] It was opened up in the.
[44:26] The porch became a foyer.
[44:28] Into the house.
[44:29] So we'd have to restore that much of the brick wall.
[44:32] The brick wall that.
[44:34] That the rest of that brick wall on the West side is still there, but it's.
[44:38] It's now an interior wall.
[44:40] And that would stay the same.
[44:41] So it's part of the structure in the house essentially it's livable space at this point.
[44:46] Yeah, it's not like a mud room or something.
[44:49] No, no, OK.
[44:51] I've got a yeah, go ahead.
[44:53] A question as I look at the floor plan that you have here.
[44:58] What?
[45:00] What is existing and?
[45:02] What is new?
[45:06] I I can't tell what.
[45:08] Is there currently and what you're proposing to do we have the existing floor plan?
[45:15] Did you include that in your? I thought I did.
[45:18] It might be the next page.
[45:23] It's like a rectangle. Yeah, I guess not.
[45:31] I mean, yeah, basically it.
[45:33] If you yeah, if you cut off that.
[45:36] Yeah, like what you're doing with the mouse or that?
[45:39] That would be the existing.
[45:41] It's it's difficult to.
[45:44] Visualize it without.
[45:46] A diagram, but for me I'm.
[45:49] Yeah. Do you, Ron? Do you know when?
[45:54] Porch was added to the property.
[45:56] Well, the porch we believe was original, so we had a.
[46:00] Steve Cornell.
[46:02] Professor.
[46:04] Preservation.
[46:05] Architecture Ed.
[46:06] UVU, he came down, we paid him to come down and.
[46:09] Look at it, he's the one that actually figured out that that used to be a porch.
[46:13] And he said it's original. That would.
[46:15] That porch would have been.
[46:16] Originally there.
[46:18] And that roof section of roof over it was original.
[46:22] As well.
[46:23] So it kind of looks like it might have been an addition, but it actually was original. But it was.
[46:27] It was the porch.
[46:29] OK. And I apologize I misspoke so the.
[46:32] Livable space.
[46:33] Foyer that it is today.
[46:36] When did it convert from?
[46:38] Porch to that.
[46:40] We're not sure but.
[46:41] Probably the 1920s.
[46:43] OK, it was in the Casper family.
[46:46] The Casper family owned it till 1916.
[46:49] And then we have a picture.
[46:50] Yeah, that picture right there the.
[46:52] Pack my picture.
[46:53] Is from 1930 I think, so by then it had been done.
[46:58] That way.
[46:59] But enclosed.
[47:03] OK. Any other questions on the modification?
[47:06] Part so far.
[47:08] OK. And then if you want to now kind of delve into the use since you kind of brought up parking?
[47:14] As a Segway there if you want to touch on the the use and intent around that.
[47:19] OK.
[47:21] So I guess the the main question that was asked was how does this?
[47:25] How does the proposed use?
[47:27] Enhance.
[47:29] The Historic.
[47:30] Preservation, right?
[47:34] So.
[47:37] This application is only requesting antique shop.
[47:41] And the additional.
[47:42] Residential.
[47:44] Unit Additional.
[47:46] On the property.
[47:48] Those two uses.
[47:49] Because that's the only thing that would be within the scope of.
[47:52] The Planning Commission's purview.
[47:55] But we are also at the same time talking to the city about.
[47:59] Donating the property.
[48:01] And.
[48:06] Museum A History Museum.
[48:08] So Holiday currently does not have a History Museum.
[48:10] I gave a few examples of nearby cities and how they've.
[48:13] Done that.
[48:15] And so really, the antique shop.
[48:19] Is meant to be ancillary to the museum.
[48:24] The.
[48:26] The Historical Commission.
[48:28] The thought that that would be a good idea.
[48:31] Because.
[48:33] Basically a relieve.
[48:35] The historical.
[48:36] Commission from the responsibility of providing docents and volunteers at the museum.
[48:42] Basically.
[48:43] The uh, merchant that is, uh, running the.
[48:47] Antique shop is a.
[48:49] Ancillary.
[48:51] Part of the museum would.
[48:52] Be able to.
[48:53] Beyond sight and then?
[48:55] Essentially manage that museum.
[48:58] So that that's that's the intent.
[49:01] We've done a little research about.
[49:04] The demand for antique.
[49:06] Shops. I went and visited the capital city.
[49:10] Antique Mall.
[49:11] It's on.
[49:12] About 9th South and.
[49:14] West Temple.
[49:16] I've been there for decades and I talked to the.
[49:18] The owner.
[49:19] It's this big mall with a sublease space.
[49:23] To dealers.
[49:24] And they said they've got a waiting list going back decades. You know, there's a high demand.
[49:28] For people wanting.
[49:30] Speech for antique, You know, antique, uh.
[49:32] To sell their antiques.
[49:34] So we think it won't be hard to find.
[49:37] Somebody who you know.
[49:38] Would like to do that.
[49:42] And like I said.
[49:44] It's not the.
[49:44] Primary use The primary goal would be for it to be a museum with the.
[49:48] Antique shop is kind of an add on to that.
[49:51] Both as a draw to the museum.
[49:53] And also the.
[49:55] Museum being a draw to the end, there's kind of a synergy.
[49:58] Between museum and antique shop.
[50:01] And that way it would.
[50:04] Basically pay for itself as well.
[50:07] Antique shops are pretty.
[50:10] You know, they're pretty lucrative.
[50:12] It turns out.
[50:13] So it'd be a good source of income.
[50:17] Maintain the museum, essentially.
[50:20] And so in the diagram that we've been provided, I don't see a livable space.
[50:25] If it's a shop in a museum.
[50:27] And you want to.
[50:29] Put an accessory building.
[50:31] Adjacent to it.
[50:33] So so the lot itself is like 12,000 square feet and this little.
[50:38] House only takes up.
[50:39] You know less than 1/3 of that.
[50:41] So what we want to do is.
[50:43] Build a residence.
[50:45] Behind it.
[50:46] As part of the PUD.
[50:49] And as part of the.
[50:52] PUD that currently has this designated as open space.
[50:56] Or common space. Excuse me it.
[50:58] Could be compensation, that's an option as well.
[51:01] But.
[51:03] Well, it is right, like the PUD that was approved and shovels hit dirt.
[51:08] Have that listed as a common space currently. Is that right? No.
[51:12] But you know the the.
[51:15] It's basically.
[51:17] It could be, so it's called this.
[51:20] Lot is called Lot.
[51:21] 2A is essentially part of lot.
[51:26] And we could put a common space easement there.
[51:31] That's one possibility. We haven't done that yet.
[51:35] Or it could just be used to enlarge lot 2.
[51:39] Or it could be.
[51:40] A separate lot, and that's what we'll.
[51:42] Opposing that it actually be a.
[51:43] A separate.
[51:47] The.
[51:51] The question was asked now, how does this help?
[51:54] The Historic.
[51:55] Designation Room.
[51:56] Preservation.
[51:58] That's actually a pretty easy question to answer.
[52:01] This property is right.
[52:06] Of there's a lot.
[52:07] Of historic bungalows.
[52:10] Going down Clearview and then.
[52:13] To the South.
[52:14] Kentucky Ave.
[52:16] There's, there's all these early 1900s.
[52:20] Bungalows.
[52:21] Basically.
[52:23] And so we're trying to be compatible with that and kind of preserve that same ambiance.
[52:29] With our with our PUD so.
[52:34] And and also on the.
[52:38] On the north side there's a.
[52:41] I don't know if you've.
[52:42] Well, visited the area but there's there's like a yellow house.
[52:45] That's a bungalow.
[52:48] And then there's.
[52:49] Two on the.
[52:52] Between our property and Clearview, there's two more bungalows.
[52:56] And then like I say, going down, Clearview going down.
[52:59] You know Kentucky.
[53:02] There's all these.
[53:03] Early 1900s bungalows.
[53:05] So, uh.
[53:07] Our intent all along has been to try to.
[53:10] Match that same.
[53:11] Style and.
[53:16] Both the size and the character of those bungalows.
[53:20] So the reason we want to have a third unit.
[53:25] The 3rd house is so that they can be smaller.
[53:29] Bungalow style homes.
[53:31] If if we're unable to do that.
[53:33] Then we'll.
[53:35] Have to build.
[53:36] Two homes that will be much larger.
[53:38] And really not compatible with the historic.
[53:41] The district that we're.
[53:43] Demands so that's the reason.
[53:46] Also that the open space has been a.
[53:49] The goal from the very beginning as well, the historic preservation kind of came along later as we became more aware.
[53:56] Of the significance of the.
[53:58] Of the of the.
[54:00] And did you know?
[54:02] Paid for some research to.
[54:04] You know, learn about the history.
[54:06] And so.
[54:08] Preserving that, you know.
[54:10] Became part of the art.
[54:12] Goal basically.
[54:14] There's basically 3 aims that we have.
[54:18] One is matching that.
[54:21] District that bungalow district.
[54:23] #2 it sit, it straddles.
[54:27] The high density.
[54:29] Multi family.
[54:30] Village Zone.
[54:32] And then?
[54:33] On the other side you have the R110 low density.
[54:37] Residential zone going eastward.
[54:39] This is straddling what's called the medium density district.
[54:43] So we're trying to provide a.
[54:45] Transitional buffer between.
[54:47] High density multi family commercial.
[54:50] And.
[54:51] Low density.
[54:52] Single family.
[54:54] Detached SO.
[54:56] These homes will have the.
[54:58] Character of single family detached.
[55:00] But kind of a medium density, right? So a medium.
[55:04] Density between the very high density and the very low density.
[55:08] Providing that transition both in density and character.
[55:12] And that's.
[55:13] That's the.
[55:14] Kind of the vision of what we're trying to do.
[55:16] With the whole PUD.
[55:18] And in particular.
[55:20] You know we want this.
[55:21] Home to match that.
[55:27] Environment.
[55:29] OK. Any other questions for the applicant?
[55:32] Before we open the public.
[55:35] Great. We'll go ahead and have you.
[55:36] Thank you.
[55:37] Thank you.
[55:39] All right.
[55:43] Same as before when we opened the public hearing.
[55:46] We'd ask that you keep your comments too.
[55:48] 3 minutes or less. Try not to reiterate comments that have made.
[55:51] Or points that have been made in prior comments and when you start, please provide your name and address for the public record.
[55:58] And with that, we'll go ahead and open the public hearing.
[56:06] Hi, I'm Kim Duffy, 2195 Walker Lane.
[56:10] I'm making these comments as a resident and not in any official capacity.
[56:15] I'm reading comments from Marty Bradley.
[56:18] Also resident of Holiday.
[56:20] She is professor emeritus.
[56:22] University of Utah School of Architecture.
[56:25] She could not hear.
[56:26] Be here tonight and we agreed on these comments.
[56:30] While we supported.
[56:33] Even championed.
[56:34] Ron Hilton's proposed Casper House nomination for the holiday historic site designation.
[56:40] We oppose the current proposal.
[56:42] Which includes the proposed addition.
[56:45] The addition does not meet the National.
[56:47] Nationally accepted definitions of a.
[56:49] Compatible Edition. The definition is as follows.
[56:53] Quote compatible additions to historic buildings must be subordinate.
[56:59] To the original structure.
[57:01] Using a differentiation and compatibility approach.
[57:06] New editions should be smaller.
[57:08] And scale.
[57:09] Set back from the primary facade.
[57:12] Usually located at the rear.
[57:14] And utilize.
[57:15] Materials that echo.
[57:17] But don't.
[57:18] Perfectly replicate the original.
[57:21] Key principles include maintaining historic integrity.
[57:25] Ensuring reversibility and using.
[57:28] A-OR connector to separate.
[57:30] The new from the old.
[57:32] End Quote.
[57:35] We, and I'm continuing on with Marty Bradleys comments, we respect Hiltons willingness to save an historic project.
[57:43] But we believe the proposed addition goes above and beyond the acceptable definition of compatible additions.
[57:50] The addition's roofline.
[57:52] Which matches the original structure.
[57:54] Suggests the addition.
[57:56] Is original.
[57:57] Which it is not.
[57:58] The scale is larger than the original structure.
[58:02] Itself and is not set back.
[58:04] From the primary facade.
[58:06] But suggests.
[58:07] It is original to the primary facade.
[58:10] Proposing the same material.
[58:12] Continues this deceit.
[58:15] Moreover, Hilton's thoughtful but misguided.
[58:18] Description of why this is OK.
[58:21] What we might call the good enough.
[58:23] Theory of historic preservation is not good enough.
[58:28] It creates the illusion.
[58:29] Of Histori.
[58:31] But not accuracy or fidelity.
[58:33] To the original structure.
[58:36] Again, while we respect Hilton's effort.
[58:38] This proposed addition violates.
[58:41] Pretty much every.
[58:43] Element of accepted compatible additions and therefore.
[58:46] We oppose it.
[58:48] Thank you.
[59:04] Good evening, Roger Reece, 4685 Grosvenor.
[59:07] Port so interesting to hear.
[59:11] The ruminations on the historic value of the.
[59:16] Cottage.
[59:17] Given that at one point it was going to be a 7000 foot.
[59:20] Square townhome on the same property.
[59:23] In another iteration, it was going to be.
[59:26] A clubhouse for the PUD.
[59:28] And now?
[59:29] We've got historic value.
[59:32] Being talked about.
[59:34] Prior speaker spoke to that.
[59:38] It's almost as if I'm sure that's not the case.
[59:40] There's some sort of a loophole with the historic preservation that allows a certain.
[59:45] Consideration.
[59:46] For different zoning because of it.
[59:48] But I'm not that skeptical.
[59:50] There are some contradictions though.
[59:54] In the document that we've been reviewing, it's been on the on the display right now. Our aim all along.
[59:59] Has been to provide a transitional buffer in both density and character between these very different.
[1:00:05] Districts on either side.
[1:00:06] Also, part of our vision from the very start was to provide.
[1:00:10] Some open green space.
[1:00:11] As a public amenity.
[1:00:14] I'm not sure if that is the role of any given property owner.
[1:00:18] To make the decision on.
[1:00:20] Providing buffers.
[1:00:23] We have a 938 square foot.
[1:00:25] Building.
[1:00:26] That is going to be.
[1:00:28] A museum and an antique store.
[1:00:30] I believe I heard that the transcript will.
[1:00:32] Be accurate.
[1:00:33] That it would help support the museum, so therefore is the antique store and nonprofit.
[1:00:39] Unclear.
[1:00:41] Next.
[1:00:42] The nearest parking is just the limited street parking.
[1:00:45] From this very same document.
[1:00:46] There's no sidewalk.
[1:00:47] There's no street parking.
[1:00:49] OK, but it would have.
[1:00:51] Low impact on the neighborhood. It goes on to say not continue to not contiguous, but in later in the document.
[1:00:58] Serving mostly a small walk in clientele.
[1:01:01] All right. So we don't have too much.
[1:01:03] To worry about there.
[1:01:04] But yet.
[1:01:05] We talk about.
[1:01:06] The need for the robust business of antiques.
[1:01:12] And then to quote. So the bottom line is that there will be plenty of demand.
[1:01:16] For both.
[1:01:17] The space in Holiday.
[1:01:19] So what is?
[1:01:20] Is it?
[1:01:20] Going to be a robust business or is it going to have no impact?
[1:01:24] That seems like a contradiction.
[1:01:25] Correct me if I'm wrong.
[1:01:27] Finally, alternatively.
[1:01:30] The entire parcel could be used for the neighborhood park.
[1:01:33] Similar to other pocket parks around the city.
[1:01:36] In that case.
[1:01:37] We would ask the city to.
[1:01:38] Bear the cost.
[1:01:40] Of extending.
[1:01:41] The private lane and utilities.
[1:01:45] To service the remaining lots behind the park and to maintain.
[1:01:50] It as a public Rd. going.
[1:01:52] Forward to help offset the loss of the additional dwelling unit.
[1:01:58] To my mind, that sounds like.
[1:02:01] A private property owner.
[1:02:03] Foreseeing some expenses.
[1:02:05] Moving that to the city, the utility of.
[1:02:08] Private park.
[1:02:09] Unclear.
[1:02:11] Unclear.
[1:02:12] The cost to the city?
[1:02:14] Very clear.
[1:02:15] Very clear.
[1:02:16] I don't see the viability of this project.
[1:02:19] I don't see how it enhances the neighborhood.
[1:02:21] I see how it detracts from the neighborhood.
[1:02:24] The building itself.
[1:02:26] If it was to be restored.
[1:02:28] That's for other.
[1:02:29] Expertise like the the prior speaker and and the professor she quoted.
[1:02:33] This is not a viable project.
[1:02:35] This is not a Bible project.
[1:02:37] And this is not something that.
[1:02:38] Makes sense for the city, you know.
[1:02:40] It's up to this Commission and and elected leaders to decide with that transition.
[1:02:45] Thank you.
[1:02:45] Thank you.
[1:02:57] My name My name is Clark Richards.
[1:02:59] I live at 2470.
[1:03:02] Kentucky Ave.
[1:03:03] Umm.
[1:03:07] Mr. Pilm's proposals are not a good idea.
[1:03:12] Nor is it the first time that Mister Hilton has adapt.
[1:03:16] Attempted to lobby the city.
[1:03:18] Into supporting his.
[1:03:20] Personal agenda.
[1:03:22] His agenda being to.
[1:03:25] Engineering the city into allowing him to build more than.
[1:03:29] R10R110 allows.
[1:03:32] He has asked permission.
[1:03:34] Or.
[1:03:36] And that would be two lots.
[1:03:38] On.
[1:03:39] Two dwellings on 2 locks.
[1:03:41] What he's talking about.
[1:03:43] Is.
[1:03:44] He's talking about 3 dwellings.
[1:03:47] And three different lots.
[1:03:49] I understand one would be is on the historical register of holiday.
[1:03:53] And then he wants.
[1:03:54] What he calls a residential.
[1:03:56] Another residential dwelling or house and then one behind that. That's a total of 3.
[1:04:02] That's not what the.
[1:04:02] Property calls for.
[1:04:08] He wants a.
[1:04:09] Conditional, uh.
[1:04:10] Use permit allowing him to make changes.
[1:04:13] And an open antique shop.
[1:04:15] And.
[1:04:16] To construct a new residential.
[1:04:18] Dwelling, yet I mentioned that.
[1:04:21] I have.
[1:04:22] I have I have several concerns.
[1:04:25] 1 is.
[1:04:26] As mentioned before, does it.
[1:04:27] Does it fit in with the character of their neighborhood? I don't believe it does.
[1:04:33] Is it going to be? Is there?
[1:04:35] Is is there going to be adequate parking?
[1:04:37] This is a business within has been mentioned before, a PUD.
[1:04:41] And businesses need.
[1:04:43] Parking, parking issue is going to it's going to be on the city.
[1:04:47] Which means it's going to be on the street.
[1:04:49] Which means we're going to have to narrow Murray Holiday Rd.
[1:04:52] And and and and potentially make it less safe than it is now. I, I just, I just really struggling with the whole concept here.
[1:05:01] And and I'm just speaking for what?
[1:05:04] What I believe my my neighbors.
[1:05:07] Would be in agreement with I. I feel that the codes.
[1:05:12] And laws.
[1:05:14] For.
[1:05:15] For a reason.
[1:05:16] And that we need to.
[1:05:18] We need to hold the line. What I'm seeing Mr. Hilt do is he's want wanting to maneuver it.
[1:05:23] Maneuver that the city.
[1:05:25] Into meeting his needs.
[1:05:29] It is.
[1:05:31] It is what?
[1:05:32] I don't believe this proposal is good for the residents.
[1:05:38] Again, I mentioned I mentioned the on street parking.
[1:05:41] The businesses need deliveries.
[1:05:44] And for delivery trucks to get in and out.
[1:05:48] Is going to be a problem.
[1:05:50] And I think that's going to create a safety issue.
[1:05:53] Umm.
[1:05:58] One other thing.
[1:06:04] I don't know.
[1:06:09] I I just don't.
[1:06:12] I just don't.
[1:06:12] Trust what he's.
[1:06:14] What he's asking this city to do.
[1:06:16] Because I think based on.
[1:06:18] His history.
[1:06:19] Wanting to get 3 lots.
[1:06:21] 33 lots out of that.
[1:06:24] Property.
[1:06:25] It sounds like it's that's the direction it's going to be going.
[1:06:29] This time and I just.
[1:06:30] I think it's under a.
[1:06:32] Different scenario, but I can see where it where it's headed.
[1:06:36] If this business doesn't go.
[1:06:38] Could he come?
[1:06:39] For a conditional use permit and asked to.
[1:06:43] Uh, tear it down and build another house? House. Or could he ask for a conditional use permit?
[1:06:48] And and and say I would like to turn this into a.
[1:06:51] Home instead of a business. So I'm saying, where do we draw the line?
[1:06:55] And I just, I just struggled with it with this whole concept anyway.
[1:07:00] I really appreciate your serving.
[1:07:02] Thank you.
[1:07:03] Thank you. Thank you.
[1:07:05] Thank you.
[1:07:06] I Commissioner Roger Lakeway, Our sound system is having a hard time picking up sound.
[1:07:12] So when you're speaking to your comment.
[1:07:15] Talk close to the microphone.
[1:07:17] Or talk loudly so that we can make sure to get.
[1:07:20] Everything recorded.
[1:07:23] OK, Duly noted. Thank you.
[1:07:25] I mean, thank you.
[1:07:28] All right. Were there any other comments at this time?
[1:07:41] Hello, my name is Alicia Reese. I'm at 4685.
[1:07:45] Kristoff Rosner Court as well.
[1:07:48] I want to add a little bit to some of the comments that were made, especially in relation to the parking.
[1:07:53] I don't know if you're familiar with that street, but that side of the street that.
[1:07:56] Mr. Hilton is talking about is where the utility poles go up.
[1:07:59] There's a brand, there's no room for parking.
[1:08:02] If it were to be a business.
[1:08:03] I can foresee that people would park there on that street and to what the others?
[1:08:07] Have spoke about it would.
[1:08:09] Create an additional hazard.
[1:08:11] I can tell you many times being on that street.
[1:08:14] It seems like anybody that hits the light, they're.
[1:08:17] Marie Holiday and coming up that street where they're turning the corner trying to get across later. What?
[1:08:21] They seen this try to get from.
[1:08:22] Zero to 60 as fast as they can.
[1:08:25] Up to where a holiday rose starts.
[1:08:27] So I think that's an additional hazard.
[1:08:29] I can see a lot of improvement that the city would need to make if they take on the responsibility that.
[1:08:34] Mr. Hilton has.
[1:08:36] Has mentioned on maintain Rd. is.
[1:08:38] That would not be an ADA compliant property.
[1:08:41] You would have to have parking. You would have to have Rams.
[1:08:44] You would have a lot of infrastructure. It's not currently there.
[1:08:47] Saying.
[1:08:49] He wants the city to.
[1:08:50] As part of the agreement to.
[1:08:52] Take on this this road you would be.
[1:08:55] Potentially responsible for that.
[1:08:57] There was one part in the proposal that was kind of confusing to me.
[1:09:01] Where you lose that this is kind of what I would call proof of a concept that we could take.
[1:09:05] The castle house that's already in the park.
[1:09:07] And make it museum.
[1:09:08] I think if the city really has that intent.
[1:09:11] That is something you could do without.
[1:09:13] Using this as a proof of concept.
[1:09:15] And as others have said, Mr. Hilton has tried to use this property.
[1:09:18] In many different ways, he's had a few different presentations in front of the committee.
[1:09:22] Before, umm.
[1:09:23] One of them was when I first.
[1:09:24] Moved into the Holiday Rd.
[1:09:27] It was this big.
[1:09:28] I forget how many square feet.
[1:09:30] Property that would just go all the way down like.
[1:09:33] A $1.5 million property, 7000 or more square feet.
[1:09:37] So he never has.
[1:09:38] In my opinion.
[1:09:39] Had an intent on maintaining and preserving.
[1:09:42] That is.
[1:09:45] He also has the property that he across the street from that.
[1:09:48] Where he tried to use that.
[1:09:50] To make it to where you could get more density into that and if you look at those buildings.
[1:09:54] They're not.
[1:09:55] What I would call.
[1:09:56] In the spirit of.
[1:09:58] A cottage, kind of.
[1:10:00] Community.
[1:10:02] So I feel like he's.
[1:10:04] As the other gentleman said, is always looking for an angle to try to get what he wants from that property.
[1:10:09] And what he might want to do in the future.
[1:10:12] So those are the comments that I would make and thank you very much.
[1:10:15] Thank you.
[1:10:23] Hi, I'm Denise Cecil and I live at 4673.
[1:10:26] South Halley Pines Court, so I'm in the.
[1:10:29] Smaller.
[1:10:32] Duplexes that are just West of.
[1:10:34] That property.
[1:10:35] So I appreciate the historic value of that house. I've been inside the house. There's a lot to think about in terms of that, but.
[1:10:42] Really just want to reiterate what's said about the park, about the parking and what that road is really like for those of us that
[1:10:45] live on that.
[1:10:49] When I first read the proposal, it says the following. It says.
[1:10:53] The shop is intended to.
[1:10:56] Serve limited.
[1:10:57] Foot traffic only.
[1:10:59] There will be no formal advertising unless the city chooses to highlight it as part of the Holiday Village experience.
[1:11:06] And then it goes on again to say in the proposal that.
[1:11:10] The neighbors would be opposed to additional parking anyway.
[1:11:13] So I just don't like the others. Again, want to reiterate, I don't understand. It's already very.
[1:11:18] Unsafe there. It's unsafe because we have so many kids out there.
[1:11:22] Coming and going from school and we can't see you to get out of there.
[1:11:25] I just don't know where they're gonna park and how that could possibly.
[1:11:28] Work so.
[1:11:30] Other than that.
[1:11:30] Thank you. Thank you.
[1:11:36] OK, any other comments at this time?
[1:11:40] Don't worry, I'll get to you.
[1:11:41] OK. Well, with that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing and.
[1:11:46] Commissioner Roach.
[1:11:47] You need to read in the comment.
[1:11:49] Open. That's right. I do have the third one, a couple of emails here.
[1:11:55] The first one is just a.
[1:11:57] Address that was being added to a comment that was in the packet.
[1:12:01] So we have that record.
[1:12:02] The middle one was from Miss Cecil, who just spoke. I think her.
[1:12:06] Her comment was.
[1:12:07] Little bit more lengthy and printed format if you wanted to highlight anything else from that.
[1:12:12] And then the third comment was one that was received over the weekend. So the third comment was not included in the packet.
[1:12:18] From Overmo.
[1:12:19] Yes, OK.
[1:12:21] And for the previous.
[1:12:23] Comment.
[1:12:25] Comment in printed form there's.
[1:12:27] Four points highlighted I believe here.
[1:12:31] About compatibility.
[1:12:33] Parking umm.
[1:12:34] Driveways.
[1:12:36] Lighting, lighting.
[1:12:44] Yeah, when the traffic impacts.
[1:12:47] OK. And then the e-mail that was received over the weekend from Sandy Overmo.
[1:12:54] Which also lives in the Hadley.
[1:12:58] Hines townhouse development directly West.
[1:13:05] Fears that it will affect development of larger properties.
[1:13:11] Said in its current condition, the.
[1:13:13] Casper Cottage is unattractive and.
[1:13:16] Potential detriment to the sale of the two buildings on the parcel.
[1:13:21] Even if the cottage is renovated, it'll be difficult to sell those lots.
[1:13:26] When they bought, they thought the message.
[1:13:28] The messiness on the adjacent lot would be taken care of in a reasonable time frame.
[1:13:34] But it's been almost three years.
[1:13:37] Back lot was still being used to store commercial trucks.
[1:13:43] And they don't like the aspect of it being a museum or any type of commercial property that avoids increased traffic noise.
[1:13:52] And pressure for street parking.
[1:13:55] And it sets up the.
[1:13:56] Precedent for others to apply for more commercial businesses in the area.
[1:14:03] OK, so there's all our comments.
[1:14:08] And with that.
[1:14:10] Now I'll close the public hearing. Thank you.
[1:14:13] Miss Marsh and.
[1:14:15] Run, we will afford you.
[1:14:16] A hole up to 5 minutes.
[1:14:19] If you want to.
[1:14:20] Respond to any of the comments made.
[1:14:23] If not, you do not have to at this time. That is your choice.
[1:14:34] Yeah, I'd like to just.
[1:14:36] Respond to a few of the.
[1:14:37] Points that were made.
[1:14:40] So the.
[1:14:43] The two versus 3 lots.
[1:14:46] Question as you know.
[1:14:47] As rightly said.
[1:14:49] Before.
[1:14:52] We originally actually.
[1:14:55] Sought to rezone the.
[1:14:58] Property.
[1:14:59] And have a 5 or 6.
[1:15:01] Unit, you know, single fan.
[1:15:03] Family homes.
[1:15:05] In this space.
[1:15:06] Not counting the.
[1:15:08] Northside of Murray Holiday Rd.
[1:15:11] That was not approved.
[1:15:13] And in retrospect, I.
[1:15:15] I believe that was the right decision. That would have been too much density.
[1:15:20] So we have evolved.
[1:15:23] And what we're trying to do and.
[1:15:24] And what we were actually building is about half the density of.
[1:15:28] What we originally had in mind.
[1:15:31] The question about, well, you know, in the past we've talked about having two much larger.
[1:15:39] Holmes versus 3 smaller homes.
[1:15:41] That's very true.
[1:15:44] Where we originally.
[1:15:46] Thought that there would be it's.
[1:15:50] You know it's R10R1.
[1:15:51] R110 So 10,000.
[1:15:54] And it just falls just like.
[1:15:56] You know several 100.
[1:15:58] The square feet shy of that, so you know it's not quite large enough for three.
[1:16:02] All right. And so.
[1:16:04] That's why if it was only two homes, they would in fact.
[1:16:08] The significantly larger lots, significantly larger homes.
[1:16:11] That is just the way it would be.
[1:16:14] When we were able to require the North.
[1:16:17] Part across the street.
[1:16:19] That did open the possibility.
[1:16:22] Of because of the.
[1:16:24] PUD you can.
[1:16:26] Equalize lot sizes and so.
[1:16:29] The Northside.
[1:16:30] Could have actually had five units.
[1:16:32] And the South too. So our proposal was.
[1:16:35] Four and three keeping it up.
[1:16:37] At the same.
[1:16:39] Density of seven.
[1:16:42] But that was.
[1:16:45] You know, not approved.
[1:16:47] It although we had two written opinions from attorneys saying that it should have been approved.
[1:16:54] But you know, that's water under the bridge, so.
[1:16:56] I guess what I'm saying is.
[1:16:57] I hope you'll consider this.
[1:16:59] On its own merits.
[1:17:01] You know, consider the present application.
[1:17:03] If you do, look at.
[1:17:04] Back in history about.
[1:17:06] You know what we've done in the past.
[1:17:09] I think that works in our favor.
[1:17:12] Because we.
[1:17:17] We were essentially our entitlement.
[1:17:20] Was was taken.
[1:17:23] And we missed the.
[1:17:24] Deal Deadline 2.
[1:17:26] To try and get that entitlement, but.
[1:17:30] Anyway that like I said, that's water under the bridge.
[1:17:33] You don't have to consider that.
[1:17:36] But I hope you know if you do, you won't consider.
[1:17:39] You know, hold it against us, right there were.
[1:17:42] That we found another way to achieve.
[1:17:45] The same thing that we should have.
[1:17:47] Basically been granted in the past.
[1:17:51] But as far as the other question was.
[1:17:56] How do you disable that? There's a lot of demand.
[1:17:59] But it would only be a small clientele.
[1:18:02] There's a lot of demand.
[1:18:04] For antique dealers.
[1:18:07] In other words.
[1:18:08] Antique dealers are looking for space like this.
[1:18:12] That's not the same as saying.
[1:18:14] That there would be a high.
[1:18:16] Traffic.
[1:18:17] Clientele OK.
[1:18:19] So it will not be hard to find dealers.
[1:18:22] That want to use this space.
[1:18:24] But the amount of.
[1:18:27] Traffic.
[1:18:28] You know it will be.
[1:18:30] Is not necessarily going to be high.
[1:18:33] It'll just be people.
[1:18:35] Who are interested in the museum?
[1:18:38] You know, would say, oh, you know.
[1:18:39] There's some things for sale, you know, I'd like to.
[1:18:42] You know, I'm interested in history. I'd like to buy something.
[1:18:46] More of an opportunistic not.
[1:18:48] You know a.
[1:18:50] A major business.
[1:18:55] And so as far as the parking.
[1:18:58] We actually hired a.
[1:19:02] A traffic engineer.
[1:19:03] They had looked at Murray Holiday Road and actually recommended.
[1:19:07] That there ought to be parking on both sides of the road.
[1:19:10] Precisely because it would have a calming effect on the traffic, so it actually improved safety.
[1:19:16] So I totally.
[1:19:18] Disagree with the idea that allowing parking there.
[1:19:21] Would impact safety negatively. It would actually.
[1:19:25] According to.
[1:19:26] The.
[1:19:28] Support of our traffic engineer would actually be.
[1:19:31] Improvement of safety.
[1:19:33] But that's, you know, that's not really relevant to.
[1:19:36] This application This application is.
[1:19:38] Two things The antique shop.
[1:19:41] And the additional dwelling unit and that's.
[1:19:44] Both are allowed.
[1:19:46] Conditional uses.
[1:19:48] Under.
[1:19:49] Historic preservation ordinance.
[1:19:51] And that's.
[1:19:51] All we're asking for and that's.
[1:19:54] The extent of.
[1:19:56] Of what we're looking for tonight.
[1:19:58] OK. Thank you very much.
[1:20:01] All right, Commissioners.
[1:20:03] Lots of discussion points.
[1:20:09] So I'll just.
[1:20:10] Kind of jump in and get this ball rolling a little bit on.
[1:20:13] Thoughts that have come to mind.
[1:20:16] When it comes to the modification.
[1:20:19] I asked some.
[1:20:20] Feel like fairly pointed questions?
[1:20:25] It feels like this structure has been there for.
[1:20:28] A century, or darn near it.
[1:20:31] In its existing form.
[1:20:33] The porch as house.
[1:20:36] And not needing.
[1:20:38] The porch removed and.
[1:20:39] Pulled out SO.
[1:20:42] Outside of changing the windows and adding some shutters.
[1:20:47] I'm not sure.
[1:20:48] The modification.
[1:20:51] Feels relevant or necessary?
[1:20:56] And when I look at the use side of things.
[1:21:00] Having been on the Planning Commission for a few years and.
[1:21:04] Not being a goldfish and having a memory of the prior discussions about trying to add additional.
[1:21:10] Housing units.
[1:21:12] In this.
[1:21:14] I too have heard a lot of stories of this house and how it's going to be.
[1:21:19] Something else?
[1:21:21] And only until very, very recently. When?
[1:21:24] A historical home was.
[1:21:26] Approved for a slight modification that did allow business use at all of a sudden.
[1:21:31] A museum.
[1:21:32] Enter the spotlight.
[1:21:34] Of uses.
[1:21:36] So for me.
[1:21:38] You'll have to forgive me, Mr. Hilton, but it feels a little disingenuous.
[1:21:44] Just looking back over the last four or five years.
[1:21:48] To say.
[1:21:49] Altruistically.
[1:21:50] The intent all along was for this to be this really great.
[1:21:54] Parcel for the Historical Commission to generate revenue from and.
[1:21:58] Have this unique thing in holiday for.
[1:22:01] And I believe someone already made a comment that I was thinking of. Well, we already have one of those homes.
[1:22:06] On city property called the Casto House and.
[1:22:09] If there was going to be a museum somewhere, it feels like.
[1:22:12] That would be a great qualifier.
[1:22:15] To do something like that with.
[1:22:17] But that's not my purview.
[1:22:19] So those are just some of my initial thoughts, but I'm going to.
[1:22:23] Turn to my fellow commissioners and see how out of step I am with what they're thinking.
[1:22:28] I have a question for staff.
[1:22:31] Is there a site plan?
[1:22:33] Showing where everything is going to go.
[1:22:35] No, as far as the residential and the set back.
[1:22:39] Is there a landscaping plan?
[1:22:41] To show anything on this, I saw a tree in front of the house.
[1:22:44] But maybe that was a century ago.
[1:22:47] So.
[1:22:48] Well, those drawings were not included in the application.
[1:22:52] So I'm concerned to try and make a decision.
[1:22:55] Without more of those kind of details because I think.
[1:22:58] That's what this is asking for.
[1:23:00] And I appreciated.
[1:23:03] The comments in the staff report that the TRC said that there was.
[1:23:07] A lot of detail that was still missing.
[1:23:09] And that needs to be.
[1:23:11] Supplied Do we need to identify use at this point in time or is that a part of the decision?
[1:23:19] Because.
[1:23:21] Let's make a decision on what it's going to be instead of just saying, well, let's just hope for the best and.
[1:23:26] How all that happens?
[1:23:28] I do have the concerns as I was talking about earlier with.
[1:23:31] Parking.
[1:23:33] If its street parking, does it have to be adjacent to the site?
[1:23:37] The parking.
[1:23:38] Or is there 100 foot, 200 foot?
[1:23:42] To where that parking can still qualify as.
[1:23:45] Yes.
[1:23:47] So I'll.
[1:23:48] Talk about the parking within your parking.
[1:23:51] Ordinance allowances when you decide what the minimum.
[1:23:54] Requirement is.
[1:23:56] The property owner can find.
[1:23:58] That minimum, a percentage of that minimum, I don't remember what it is right now.
[1:24:02] Off site.
[1:24:04] With and entering into agreement with the off site property owner to provide those.
[1:24:08] X amount of stalls.
[1:24:10] So if he needs.
[1:24:11] 10 and he can only provide 4.
[1:24:13] The remainder can be provided with an agreement brought to the city saying that he's pursued.
[1:24:19] And a use agreement with an.
[1:24:21] Budding property within 500 feet.
[1:24:24] To use their stalls 500 OK, so they have to have an addition.
[1:24:28] To their own parking.
[1:24:29] To be able to satisfy.
[1:24:32] This request correct. If you land on a use.
[1:24:34] The minimum.
[1:24:35] On site parking.
[1:24:36] Stall requirement is still in our requirement.
[1:24:40] But I'm saying if they're.
[1:24:41] Leasing spaces from somebody else they have to have.
[1:24:44] More spaces than that are required for their use.
[1:24:48] They can't.
[1:24:49] Take required parking and lease it to another property. That would be yes. That would be the review that I would take a look at as
[1:24:53] well.
[1:24:56] What the donor?
[1:24:57] Site is giving.
[1:24:59] Granting would still be compliant with their minimum requirements. I mean I am concerned that the parking in this area.
[1:25:05] Is going to start filtering over to Harmon's and to the the old store parking.
[1:25:11] And there may not be any agreements for those and.
[1:25:15] We could see some struggles with just.
[1:25:18] With this happening, another question is the city interested in creating?
[1:25:22] Museum here or?
[1:25:24] Is that more of the applicants wishes?
[1:25:27] That the city will take this.
[1:25:28] This on, I can't speak for the city for acquisition, so we don't have any.
[1:25:33] There's no official announcement or not, no one in this for that decision.
[1:25:37] OK.
[1:25:38] I'm really confused by this because I get.
[1:25:41] See how we're?
[1:25:42] We're just looking at the elevation.
[1:25:45] And that's it. That's the site modification.
[1:25:48] That's the extent is being proposed is this.
[1:25:50] Drawing here. I mean I could do go ahead with that, but I don't think anything else is warranted without a site plan that shows.
[1:25:57] How the?
[1:25:58] Site is going to be laid out how the access.
[1:26:02] If there's additional units on the property, how they are going to get parking for them?
[1:26:06] Or are they going to be able to park elsewhere too?
[1:26:10] I think you're right.
[1:26:11] For a site modification what you have done in the past for historic preservation of sites.
[1:26:17] The staff would need to take exactly what you're approving.
[1:26:21] To a building permit.
[1:26:22] Level.
[1:26:24] Even at.
[1:26:24] With the the extent of the drawings are being provided right now, I couldn't do that.
[1:26:28] So you would need to provide some additional details as to what the.
[1:26:32] You know, whatever the sighting of the new or the brick.
[1:26:35] In layman would be used for the addition the roof structure.
[1:26:39] The floor plan that might be provided.
[1:26:42] Those are the type of details that I would essentially are looking for in the code itself.
[1:26:47] Is providing sort of a period look.
[1:26:50] For preservation.
[1:26:51] OK. And.
[1:26:52] To me, I think you need to also have a parking analysis to what type of use?
[1:26:56] Is going in here.
[1:26:58] If we are doing a retail with them.
[1:27:00] Museum and a.
[1:27:01] Shop The parking obviously is going to be more intense than.
[1:27:05] The previous use was.
[1:27:07] So right, I'm curious just how that all gets resolved.
[1:27:12] I don't know if that helps or.
[1:27:14] Just had sports difficulty to this. There's just more layers in the cake I think.
[1:27:20] Yeah, I think, I think.
[1:27:22] I agree that we're missing a lot of context and and.
[1:27:25] In addition to what?
[1:27:27] Commissioner Baron said.
[1:27:29] Because this is part of a PUD, I feel like I don't have the context for what what's happening. If this is supposed to be planned
[1:27:34] as a unit, we don't have any other pieces for how the unit.
[1:27:39] Is supposed to.
[1:27:43] B and so.
[1:27:44] I don't think we can plan a PUDPP.
[1:27:46] Piece meal.
[1:27:49] Well, and.
[1:27:50] Commissioner Gong, to echo your.
[1:27:52] Comments. We've already got the PUD. What we don't have before us.
[1:27:58] As part of the application is.
[1:28:00] How this?
[1:28:01] Fits with the vision of the PUD as it was.
[1:28:04] Planned when we.
[1:28:06] Saw it 2.
[1:28:08] Three years ago. A couple of years ago.
[1:28:11] And so I would.
[1:28:12] I would echo.
[1:28:14] Commissioner gone and.
[1:28:15] Commissioner Barents comments that.
[1:28:17] We simply don't have enough information.
[1:28:20] To even make any sort of a.
[1:28:22] Possible.
[1:28:23] Thought of a decision.
[1:28:27] And I, I I'm not even sure if we have enough.
[1:28:29] Information to continue it frankly, but but.
[1:28:32] But I do think.
[1:28:34] Considering a continuation is.
[1:28:38] Is the most generous.
[1:28:40] Thing that we could do.
[1:28:41] This point.
[1:28:45] So I'm a sample of 1.
[1:28:48] But I went up there, I went up to the property.
[1:28:51] And I.
[1:28:54] Could not find a place to park. I wanted to see what we were looking at.
[1:28:59] And I ended up.
[1:29:00] Just driving around the corner and parking in.
[1:29:05] A neighborhood.
[1:29:06] And I thought, OK, well, if there's a retail business.
[1:29:10] To go in here.
[1:29:12] Where are people going to?
[1:29:13] Park, so that's my first concern.
[1:29:17] The other thing is I too see a lot of.
[1:29:22] Disconnects between.
[1:29:25] You know, well, it's an antique shop, but there's not going to really be a lot of.
[1:29:30] Traffic in the antique shop, there's not going to be a lot of business really the.
[1:29:34] Traffic is coming in to look at the museum and.
[1:29:38] Well, if it's an antique shop and there are antiques being sold.
[1:29:42] People are going to have.
[1:29:43] Park somewhere and if.
[1:29:45] Buying big items, are they going to have to?
[1:29:48] Bring trucks in to carry the big items out and there's just not enough information there. And I would agree with the.
[1:29:56] With the statement that.
[1:29:58] Even to continue this would be.
[1:30:00] A generous gesture on our part, but I don't know what other.
[1:30:04] Option we have.
[1:30:06] So the other option we have is to.
[1:30:09] The forward a disapproval.
[1:30:15] I mean that is.
[1:30:16] But it is a conditional use, so we have to.
[1:30:19] But we can't with conditions so.
[1:30:22] We can't make a decision on a conditional use until we.
[1:30:25] That's the determine the site.
[1:30:27] Modifications which we don't have the information for so.
[1:30:32] We're kind of stuck.
[1:30:37] Counsel, do you have any?
[1:30:39] Legal counsel, do you have any?
[1:30:41] Thoughts for us? Do you want to just?
[1:30:45] Float Anything out there that we should be thoughtful of as we consider our options?
[1:30:50] So this is the.
[1:30:53] John, just correct me if I'm wrong. This is the historic preservation.
[1:30:55] Additional uses, right?
[1:30:59] OK, so there is.
[1:31:01] So typically in a conditional use permit, as long as you meet the checkboxes.
[1:31:06] Typically it's.
[1:31:07] Something that we.
[1:31:08] Obligated to approve in the ordinance that Holiday has adopted.
[1:31:12] It actually states that.
[1:31:14] This is not anything.
[1:31:18] That is done by Wright, and it's not a guarantee of a conditional use, it's an option.
[1:31:22] To help, as long as you can connect those and.
[1:31:25] From what I'm hearing.
[1:31:27] And from the TRC report, there wasn't a great Nexus to the preservation and the potential uses that have been requested to be
[1:31:31] added.
[1:31:35] So your options before you tonight are to continue.
[1:31:39] The the item and request that the applicant bring back additional information that would allow.
[1:31:45] You guys to make a decision, you can determine that they didn't meet those obligations on the application.
[1:31:52] And you can deny the conditional use.
[1:31:54] Those are kind of your.
[1:31:56] Option We only had one of the public hearings so far. Do we do both or did we do both?
[1:32:00] OK.
[1:32:01] Yeah, OK. We.
[1:32:02] Combined the two public hearings. So we had the two public hearings. So you can, you can.
[1:32:07] Deny them based if you believe that they have not met their.
[1:32:12] Obligations under the code, you can deny it.
[1:32:15] If you.
[1:32:16] I don't disagree with Commissioner Prince's assessment that the most generous thing you could do is to continue it and allow the
[1:32:20] applicant.
[1:32:23] To bring back additional information, but you have both of those options available to you.
[1:32:30] Yes, for me, Commissioner Prince, as I look at all this.
[1:32:35] I'm trying to think of a real world scenario in which.
[1:32:39] Here I want to build a house.
[1:32:42] Dwelling Unit.
[1:32:44] Immediately adjacent.
[1:32:45] To this.
[1:32:47] House that I want.
[1:32:50] To have be a different use.
[1:32:53] Would make it an appropriate.
[1:32:57] Modification.
[1:33:01] Like I think that's the part I'm stuck on.
[1:33:04] For example.
[1:33:05] The last time we saw historic.
[1:33:07] House come to us where they wanted to have a business and a house.
[1:33:10] Mind you, they had.
[1:33:11] Plenty of off street parking for those things already established.
[1:33:15] The house was already.
[1:33:17] Built it wasn't hey I want to build a house on.
[1:33:20] Addition to this antique house.
[1:33:22] It was. Here's this antique house.
[1:33:24] That I bought to make an Airbnb out of because it's basically an apartment with a house attached to it.
[1:33:30] And then, oh, lo and behold, it actually turns out to be this historic home and this little.
[1:33:35] Treasure trove, and at the same time, huge expense for that.
[1:33:39] Property owner.
[1:33:41] I don't see that.
[1:33:43] Correlation. As I look at what's before us tonight, I see.
[1:33:48] A pattern from an applicant.
[1:33:50] Who wants to put?
[1:33:52] A lot of homes.
[1:33:54] And this is another vehicle to put.
[1:33:57] An additional home somewhere that has already been rejected.
[1:34:01] To my recollection.
[1:34:03] Three or four Times Now.
[1:34:06] Including by this.
[1:34:08] Body right?
[1:34:11] So for me.
[1:34:13] We can give him more time.
[1:34:15] And maybe you can come back and demonstrate.
[1:34:18] What I'm missing?
[1:34:20] But that's the component that I don't feel.
[1:34:23] Any additional information is going to help make any clearer for me.
[1:34:29] From where I.
[1:34:30] I'm not trying to speak for the body here.
[1:34:32] So that's just.
[1:34:36] So that said.
[1:34:38] I'm more than willing to entertain a motion to continue, or to deny or to approve, whichever.
[1:34:48] The Commission appeals.
[1:34:53] And also as the modification necessary, would it be beneficial?
[1:34:58] Does it check all the boxes?
[1:35:01] And I guess I'll defer back to city staff.
[1:35:03] What is with what's proposed in the modification? We can't approve it because we're missing the information for the modification,
[1:35:07] right?
[1:35:12] I think you come to.
[1:35:13] So we could continue the modification.
[1:35:17] But we could still potentially deny the use.
[1:35:21] Right.
[1:35:32] So we did not.
[1:35:33] We can deny it.
[1:35:34] Conditional use permit.
[1:35:35] You need to turn my.
[1:35:37] I'm asking you.
[1:35:38] Yes.
[1:35:39] We can.
[1:35:40] The second.
[1:35:43] Yeah, the land use permit.
[1:35:45] We could deny that.
[1:35:48] Oh yeah, there was.
[1:35:50] They're both conditional use permits, right?
[1:35:52] Yeah, the number 3.
[1:35:54] Item.
[1:35:59] For the site modification.
[1:36:02] I I'm not convinced we killed.
[1:36:06] Approve anything.
[1:36:08] I tonight no.
[1:36:12] Yeah, I'm thinking about.
[1:36:13] What it means to continue versus.
[1:36:17] Denied this moment if.
[1:36:19] If a.
[1:36:20] Proposal is denied. Can.
[1:36:23] Bring back a variation of it.
[1:36:25] With additional details or no if it's close enough to something that's been.
[1:36:30] Denied they can't do that.
[1:36:32] They can. They can bring back something.
[1:36:33] At a different time.
[1:36:35] That's a different application.
[1:36:37] And is, if it's continued, is there a?
[1:36:41] Time limit to when that continuation ends.
[1:36:44] Continuation with.
[1:36:45] Presume that they would be coming to you, that you're either the next or the following meetings.
[1:36:50] Another option would be to table it until the applicant's ready.
[1:36:54] With an application.
[1:36:56] Maybe working with staff?
[1:36:57] To come back to the Planning Commission for at a different time.
[1:37:02] But a continuation would presume it would be on your next meeting. Your next meeting is going to be next week.
[1:37:07] There's too much needs to be done.
[1:37:09] I'll just, I've done this once before in a meeting and I'll just do it out of generosity.
[1:37:16] Mr. Hilton.
[1:37:18] As an off ramp.
[1:37:20] Would you like to withdraw your application tonight?
[1:37:23] For either of these.
[1:37:30] Because we can do that.
[1:37:31] Right, you can withdraw his application if he wants.
[1:37:34] So that's.
[1:37:35] It's just a yes or no. Would you like to withdraw your application? I just want to make sure I understand withdraw.
[1:37:40] The modification or the N?
[1:37:42] Well, conditional use or.
[1:37:44] Yeah. So if you'd like to withdraw.
[1:37:46] And come back at a later time.
[1:37:48] I'm affording you that opportunity to make that decision right now, before any other decisions are made.
[1:37:54] No, I don't think I want to withdraw.
[1:37:56] Right now, OK.
[1:37:57] Thank you very much. You can sit back now.
[1:38:00] I will say this I.
[1:38:03] The an antique store is.
[1:38:05] A possible use of it. It designated a historic building.
[1:38:10] I it seems like it's possible that there's a way.
[1:38:14] This site could make it work.
[1:38:16] If lots of things.
[1:38:18] Parking being one of them.
[1:38:20] Were different, and I think that depends on how the rest of the.
[1:38:23] The area and the beauty is used.
[1:38:27] So my input is I wouldn't.
[1:38:31] I wouldn't.
[1:38:33] Deny the conditional use with. I wouldn't unlink.
[1:38:36] The conditional use on the.
[1:38:38] Use. What am I saying?
[1:38:40] I wouldn't. I wouldn't.
[1:38:41] Unlink the use.
[1:38:42] From the site modification.
[1:38:45] That's my thought.
[1:38:46] My concern with continuing is that our next meeting.
[1:38:51] Is next week.
[1:38:53] And then the next meeting is.
[1:38:55] The next week.
[1:38:57] And I don't want to see this again.
[1:38:59] Until there's actually enough information.
[1:39:03] To make a decision because this.
[1:39:07] Is not enough. There simply is not.
[1:39:11] It's not fleshed out, there's not enough detail.
[1:39:14] And as John said.
[1:39:16] A building plan could not come.
[1:39:18] From what has been presented tonight.
[1:39:21] And so I.
[1:39:23] Think.
[1:39:24] That that we should table this and Brad, I'd like to know how we officially table something.
[1:39:30] Not continue it.
[1:39:31] But say.
[1:39:33] We're not gonna.
[1:39:35] Look at this until there's more information.
[1:39:38] But not put pressure on the applicant that has to be.
[1:39:40] In a week.
[1:39:44] That's pretty straightforward, you just table it.
[1:39:46] And direct the the applicant to.
[1:39:49] Our direct staff to not put this back on the agenda until it's.
[1:39:52] In your mind a complete application or staff mind a complete application that could.
[1:39:56] The I mean, that's one option.
[1:39:59] I mean, you have that ability.
[1:40:01] You could also just.
[1:40:02] Deny it you can.
[1:40:03] As John said, you could continue it to.
[1:40:05] But yeah, you.
[1:40:06] Kind of it appears that.
[1:40:08] Continuing it is not an option.
[1:40:10] Tabling it is.
[1:40:13] You know an option that you could. Do you have that available to you?
[1:40:16] What is the difference between tabling at?
[1:40:19] And denying it.
[1:40:21] Denying the application tabling it allows the applicant to.
[1:40:25] Complete and add to their application. Bring in more information.
[1:40:28] Get past the.
[1:40:30] I guess the.
[1:40:33] Staff.
[1:40:35] And meet the obligations or meet the.
[1:40:37] The information requirements in order to get back onto the agenda that you guys would determine.
[1:40:41] You guys can determine.
[1:40:43] Complete application as determined by staff if you wanted to leave it general or.
[1:40:46] Complete the information.
[1:40:49] That was.
[1:40:51] In the Planning Commission's.
[1:40:52] View missing from the application that not allow you to do that you could.
[1:40:56] Delineate certain things.
[1:40:59] But if you deny the application.
[1:41:01] This exact application cannot come back for at least a year.
[1:41:04] Oh so.
[1:41:06] I'm just gonna.
[1:41:07] Throw this out here just once and then I'll defer to the Commission.
[1:41:11] We've spent 75 minutes combing over this.
[1:41:14] I think our city staff does an outstanding job.
[1:41:17] Of preparing applicants to come before this Commission.
[1:41:21] And vetting out every detail that they possibly can.
[1:41:24] Before it or.
[1:41:25] Comes to us.
[1:41:26] We provided an off ramp already.
[1:41:29] Because he can withdraw it and come back.
[1:41:31] Next week or two months from now, he doesn't want to do that, he feels.
[1:41:36] That this was good enough.
[1:41:37] And he wants a decision tonight based on this being good enough.
[1:41:42] And that's where I fall into the category of.
[1:41:44] To Commissioner Prince's point.
[1:41:46] I don't want to see it again.
[1:41:48] And if it comes back as a complete application and makes sense and all the things that we talked about and all the things that the
[1:41:53] members of the public took time out of their night to talk about.
[1:41:57] So if they come back to have to talk to it again because if we.
[1:42:00] Continue it or table it.
[1:42:02] We're going to have to reopen a public hearing if there's modifications made to it, right?
[1:42:09] That's significantly different than what you're.
[1:42:11] Have seen I mean, there's going to be quite.
[1:42:14] A lot more information if you're looking for a site plan and a parking analysis, right? That could be fallen to the category of
[1:42:19] significantly different than what you're currently looking at, right?
[1:42:23] You'd probably need to reopen.
[1:42:25] Right.
[1:42:26] So we're just going to have to go through the whole exercise all over again.
[1:42:30] My opinion?
[1:42:31] Deny it.
[1:42:33] And move on.
[1:42:34] And unless somebody.
[1:42:37] Thinks I'm just.
[1:42:38] Being a bully.
[1:42:39] I'm ready to make that motion.
[1:42:42] Let's go.
[1:42:43] Let's go, OK.
[1:42:46] So this is Commissioner Roach.
[1:42:48] Or Chairman Roche.
[1:42:50] I motion the Holiday Planning Commission to.
[1:42:53] Deny the application for a conditional use.
[1:42:56] For a historical site modification for the Casper Cottage designated as a historical site.
[1:43:01] By section 1386020 of the city code located at 4660.
[1:43:07] South Holden Court.
[1:43:09] Commissioner Fondle second.
[1:43:11] OK, it's been second. We'll call for vote.
[1:43:13] I have just one question doing that.
[1:43:15] Need to have findings for this.
[1:43:17] Other than it was an incomplete application or.
[1:43:21] I'm just curious you can make findings that it was it lacked sufficient information.
[1:43:26] To in the Planning Commission's view that it was not a complete application and was therefore deemed, and you can even make the
[1:43:31] finding that you gave the.
[1:43:35] Applicant the opportunity to withdraw it and come back with more information.
[1:43:39] And the applicant rejected that option. OK, and you can make those two and all of that.
[1:43:43] Ditto to all the findings. Legal counsel just.
[1:43:46] OK. Yeah, through in there.
[1:43:49] Second motion, 2nd, 2nd.
[1:43:51] OK, amended.
[1:43:52] Motion, Mr. Barron.
[1:43:54] Aye, Mr. Gong.
[1:43:55] Mr. Prince, Hi, Mr. Font, aye and Chair Roach votes aye.
[1:43:59] Do we need to make that same motion again for the next one?
[1:44:04] OK.
[1:44:06] If I can find the language for the.
[1:44:09] Looking at the wrong 1 here.
[1:44:15] Nice one. Thank you.
[1:44:18] Mr. Chair Roach, I motion, Motion the.
[1:44:21] Holiday Planning Commission moved to deny the application for a conditional use permit for a historical site modification.
[1:44:29] For the Casper Cottage, designated as a historical section.
[1:44:33] OR site by section 1386020 of the City of Holiday Code located at 4660 S Fulton Court.
[1:44:41] Isn't that the same one?
[1:44:43] Yeah, that is the same one.
[1:44:44] There's a, there's a, there isn't.
[1:44:47] Motion for the.
[1:44:51] For the use.
[1:44:52] For the use.
[1:44:56] You can use the same and I use the same emotion and amend it for the use, yes.
[1:45:01] OK, then I amend it for the use.
[1:45:04] Due to the incomplete, due to all the things that we've talked about on the last motion.
[1:45:09] This is Commissioner Prince, I second.
[1:45:11] Excellent, Commissioner.
[1:45:12] Aye, Commissioner Gong. Aye, Commissioner Perez, aye.
[1:45:15] Commissioner.
[1:45:16] Font aye and Chair Roach votes aye.
[1:45:19] Give me a break.
[1:45:20] And with that, we're going to take a 5 minute recess before the next one. Thank you all very much.
[1:45:25] Appreciate it.
[1:46:00] If you haven't noticed, there's a sink right behind this wall.
[1:46:38] I think you would really enjoy meeting her.
[1:46:51] Are you wearing a work shirt?
[1:46:59] You have a work shirt now?
[1:47:01] I do, that's why I'm wearing my sweater, so it's not.
[1:47:04] Very, very cool.
[1:47:08] So I saw the donation.
[1:47:10] From who was?
[1:47:59] So example, here's a test.
[1:48:02] So you can see like the volume going here.
[1:48:04] And you'd have to.
[1:48:05] Talk up this close to get it in.
[1:48:08] Here.
[1:48:51] That was.
[1:49:51] There are people who are.
[1:49:56] Broadcast.
[1:51:33] All right.
[1:51:36] We back on ready, everybody good to go.
[1:51:39] Like, yeah, I don't know if we were ready 20 minutes ago. OK, here we go.
[1:51:42] Welcome back. We are moving on to item number 4 on the agenda tonight.
[1:51:47] Yay the Royal holiday Hills Block A and C final plan John.
[1:51:52] You have the floor.
[1:51:54] Thank you. I think I've.
[1:51:56] May have answered all or presented what I possibly could do on our work session.
[1:52:00] So unless you have any other questions of me that I can answer now.
[1:52:05] I think talking with the applicants there may be.
[1:52:08] One elevation or maybe 2?
[1:52:09] That we didn't get into your packet.
[1:52:12] And I'm hoping, Carrie, that the images are showing up.
[1:52:15] Because they're not showing up.
[1:52:17] At least.
[1:52:18] Oh my. Adobe tried, decided now, decided to work.
[1:52:23] Maybe it's just our Wi-Fi.
[1:52:25] Fantastic. OK, so yes.
[1:52:27] You have a final site plan that's been continued to this meeting requesting a review of.
[1:52:32] A landscaping plan that does comply with the ordinance rather than.
[1:52:35] And administrative relief type situation.
[1:52:38] And then an update to the elevations.
[1:52:40] Property owner has their design team here.
[1:52:43] TRC has reviewed this and is.
[1:52:46] More than happy of what that's been provided.
[1:52:49] In the drawings to you tonight.
[1:52:51] For both the.
[1:52:53] Retail pads of Block A.
[1:52:55] And the one loaner?
[1:52:57] Retail pad of Block C.
[1:52:59] You never saw that before? That's the that's the one on the South entrance where the light is.
[1:53:04] And I'll have the property owner give you more details on on what that what they've come up with there.
[1:53:10] Great. Any other questions for staff?
[1:53:12] All right.
[1:53:19] Good evening, Commissioners. Steve Peterson, 6147 S Fernesco Holiday, Utah.
[1:53:24] Good to be with you tonight.
[1:53:26] How do you like your new facilities?
[1:53:29] So far, I think they're pretty nice, pretty spacious, yeah.
[1:53:33] So anyway, it's good to be here.
[1:53:35] We're coming before you.
[1:53:37] And have provided.
[1:53:40] A site plan and the elevations we believe conforms with the SDMP and.
[1:53:45] Asking for approval on that.
[1:53:47] What we have up here right now is is block A.
[1:53:50] And to the.
[1:53:54] Hard corner of Holiday Blvd. IN.
[1:53:56] And Murray Holiday.
[1:53:58] In that area.
[1:53:59] We have.
[1:54:01] Two buildings.
[1:54:03] 2 restaurants to be going in there.
[1:54:05] And then?
[1:54:06] On the.
[1:54:07] Incoming side of the pad on the South side we have another restaurant that we're.
[1:54:11] Sign the lease within days to.
[1:54:13] To move into that. So we're really excited to have.
[1:54:15] Sit down restaurants.
[1:54:17] In holiday on this site we've been waiting for a long time and.
[1:54:20] We've we've we're right there at the finish line so.
[1:54:25] I might mention that we see the translucent.
[1:54:28] Signage out front.
[1:54:30] Of the corner.
[1:54:31] Hard corner there.
[1:54:33] We'll be coming back.
[1:54:34] For final approval and what that will look like, but.
[1:54:37] We're currently in the design stage for that.
[1:54:41] And then on block C we have visual comfort that.
[1:54:46] That has signed the lease and we're real close to.
[1:54:49] Breaking ground on that.
[1:54:51] Store we're really excited about.
[1:54:54] That particular vendor and.
[1:54:56] Ties in with Roth Living and.
[1:54:58] And the other.
[1:54:59] Retailers that we're bringing.
[1:55:01] To the site there.
[1:55:03] So if Adam opened any questions, you might have and.
[1:55:06] This is Commissioner Prince.
[1:55:08] Will there really be a giant ampersand on the building?
[1:55:11] There will be that that's actually their.
[1:55:15] Logo and retail.
[1:55:18] OT fund how they.
[1:55:21] Have it in other stores and it's part of their.
[1:55:23] Be branding, yeah, OK.
[1:55:25] Yeah, and they're at very, very high end.
[1:55:28] Lighting Store.
[1:55:30] In fact, our.
[1:55:31] Local Marianne.
[1:55:32] Emery Barton, the designer.
[1:55:35] I don't know if you know her in the community.
[1:55:37] But she's created a separate.
[1:55:38] Product line.
[1:55:40] And this is a national.
[1:55:41] Company and they're showcasing her product in this in this building we'll have local.
[1:55:50] Notoriety from.
[1:55:51] Local designer that will be represented there.
[1:55:55] I believe the original.
[1:55:57] Exterior to this on the highland and.
[1:56:01] Entry What is it? Rodeo?
[1:56:03] Rodeo, Rodeo.
[1:56:05] On that side of it.
[1:56:06] Originally, when you presented it, it looked like it was pretty much just.
[1:56:10] Brick wall on each side and.
[1:56:11] You've changed that then. Yeah, we've.
[1:56:14] We've updated that. In fact, here's a visual.
[1:56:17] And so.
[1:56:23] That would be what the building would look like as your.
[1:56:25] I'm sorry.
[1:56:28] You know we have.
[1:56:30] The river.
[1:56:31] And we have.
[1:56:32] Landscaping before you even come to the building, so.
[1:56:35] From Hyland.
[1:56:36] It's highly unlikely to be much visibility at all from Highland.
[1:56:40] But when you come into the site.
[1:56:42] You're going to be really.
[1:56:45] Overwhelmed with the really nice high end design and.
[1:56:47] And windows and.
[1:56:49] And entry to the building.
[1:56:54] So we're excited.
[1:56:55] So it's not just.
[1:56:56] Brick wall facing.
[1:56:58] Rodeo anymore.
[1:57:00] Well, there's because this is the interior of the parking lot, OK.
[1:57:08] So is this the?
[1:57:10] What is this view and the picture they've got on the screen? It just went away.
[1:57:14] This picture here, this one right here. Where is this from? What am I looking at it from?
[1:57:17] That's Highland Drive. This is Highland Dr. Highland Drive right there, Yeah.
[1:57:21] So is that block.
[1:57:22] D then that we're seeing. So like that's where the.
[1:57:26] Yeah, Deep D is to the right. Acai Bowl is right there.
[1:57:30] OK, Chipotle and OK and.
[1:57:33] And this would be.
[1:57:34] To the.
[1:57:36] North.
[1:57:37] Yeah, but there's a lot more landscaping there than.
[1:57:40] It's representing this rendering.
[1:57:42] In fact, if ridiculous site plan that kind of really gives a.
[1:57:46] Indication of.
[1:57:47] How dense that?
[1:57:49] Landscaping will be also that will complement.
[1:57:53] So have trees and.
[1:57:55] Really complicated.
[1:57:59] OK.
[1:58:09] And then I noticed.
[1:58:11] You relented and put in parking islands.
[1:58:13] We did.
[1:58:14] Or tree islands, yeah, we're, I think that's.
[1:58:17] That's a wise choice and we appreciate that recommendation.
[1:58:21] And it conforms with the.
[1:58:22] STMP so.
[1:58:25] Are there currently trees along the river?
[1:58:27] There are.
[1:58:28] Right here. Are you planning on leaving them or take them out?
[1:58:31] We would leave whatever is in the landscape those are.
[1:58:34] Intentionally planted.
[1:58:36] Back when.
[1:58:37] The site was reclaimed by.
[1:58:38] General growth.
[1:58:40] And we?
[1:58:41] Doesn't stay yeah, because they they aren't represented here.
[1:58:49] Probably not an actual representation.
[1:58:54] Yeah, there are. Yeah, it's it's actually pretty dense.
[1:58:58] Yeah, you're gonna drive by.
[1:59:03] Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that the plan wasn't too.
[1:59:06] Remove them.
[1:59:07] Yeah, no, we're not going to remove.
[1:59:08] OK. Yeah, they're permanent.
[1:59:11] Beautiful trees there that have been planted so.
[1:59:16] In that.
[1:59:18] Same picture.
[1:59:21] In one of these.
[1:59:22] One of these pictures of this site and I think it might have just been talking about.
[1:59:26] Block C.
[1:59:27] Instead of all of them.
[1:59:29] It does mention that there's.
[1:59:31] A plan for.
[1:59:32] 4243 hundred square feet of Kentucky bluegrass sod.
[1:59:40] I would urge you.
[1:59:41] Not to use Kentucky bluegrass, thought it's one of the highest water sods.
[1:59:45] There are lower water options that give the same visual effect.
[1:59:49] And just right back to the napkin would.
[1:59:51] Mean that would use.
[1:59:52] 130,000 to 200,000 gallons of water a year. You have a recommendation on what you.
[1:59:59] Recommend there umm.
[2:00:00] Just my briefing search.
[2:00:02] Tall Fescues.
[2:00:03] Or fine fescues can give that lawn like look.
[2:00:07] Don't do the fine queue.
[2:00:09] You don't like them? No.
[2:00:10] As a as a guy that spent 20 years in the lawn industry I can tell you that tall fescue you're going to have to mow like crazy and
[2:00:17] fine fescue burn up the 2nd that the sun hits it or let it grow longer if you have an inside line on Buffalo grass.
[2:00:24] Or.
[2:00:25] Dwarf red fescue.
[2:00:27] There are some mixes coming out of US.
[2:00:31] Now that they're breeding for.
[2:00:33] Drought tolerance and less water.
[2:00:35] I don't have a lot of information on those but.
[2:00:37] Their their existing, yeah.
[2:00:40] Anyway, so I would just recommend.
[2:00:42] Angela, Yeah.
[2:00:43] We'll, we'll research that now. Start landscape architect to.
[2:00:47] Take a look at that. I think that's a really good.
[2:00:49] I mean the last we have to spend on watering yet get the same result, we're all.
[2:00:54] On the same page we want to do that ground cover.
[2:00:57] Are people walking through here or?
[2:01:00] Could could a ground cover work?
[2:01:03] We need to do a bunch of different ground covers that.
[2:01:06] Give you a color and.
[2:01:08] Heartiness without a lot of water if they don't need to withstand traffic. I mean, if you're open that, we'll explore that.
[2:01:14] And ask our landscape architect.
[2:01:16] Brian, what would be recommended there? There? I do know there's a landscape architect I've worked with in the past and she's in
[2:01:20] charge of.
[2:01:23] Drought resistant.
[2:01:24] Landscape and she's an expert in the valley and I could.
[2:01:27] Maybe reach out to her and ask her.
[2:01:29] What are a couple of the materials we could use that would give us the same?
[2:01:33] But save water.
[2:01:35] He can, you know, because right now we're.