[0:10] I just text Carrie. I haven't heard.
[0:11] From her.
[0:13] If she's.
[0:15] Making it tonight, did you guys hear anything from her at all?
[0:18] OK, maybe she'll just be fashionably late.
[0:22] Otherwise I just got upgraded to 1st class with chairman.
[0:26] OK. Good evening.
[0:28] Afternoon, everyone. It's 533.
[0:31] Tuesday, June 16th.
[0:33] 2026 It's the holiday City Planning Commission work session.
[0:37] And we have.
[0:40] Five items on the agenda tonight. The 1st is the continued item.
[0:45] And we have all Commissioners present.
[0:48] Except for.
[0:50] Commissioner Prince.
[0:52] And we have.
[0:53] Lots of city staff and council president.
[0:55] So whoever's going to give us a recap?
[0:59] Of uh.
[0:59] Wasatch Waldorf.
[1:06] Thank you, Chair.
[1:08] This is Community and Economic Development Director John Given.
[1:13] Update on the Wasatch Waldorf Charter.
[1:16] Site plan amendment which you heard.
[1:19] Meeting held.
[1:21] Was that the 19th?
[1:23] Of March.
[1:25] Or no.
[1:25] May.
[1:27] There's a couple items that the Planning Commission specifically required the applicant to come back with.
[1:34] Namely, a parking agreement which provides.
[1:37] Off site parking.
[1:39] Secured long in and the long term arrangement.
[1:44] In order to.
[1:46] Accommodate.
[1:47] The additional.
[1:48] Building space for the school.
[1:51] And the gymnasium in the additional faculty.
[1:54] They the applicant has been working.
[1:57] Primarily with the.
[1:59] LDS Church across the street.
[2:02] And then as a backup, secondarily with the senior care center to the east.
[2:06] So further, boy.
[2:09] But they have come up with an arrangement.
[2:11] To.
[2:14] At least those parking stalls in the long term.
[2:19] I did not include those draft.
[2:21] Contract agreements in your staff report.
[2:23] Those are private.
[2:24] Agreements between two property owners.
[2:27] But I.
[2:28] Have seen them.
[2:29] They aren't executed.
[2:31] With Aaron Draft forum and you can bring that up with the applicant as they.
[2:35] When they present this afternoon.
[2:38] So it's weird we're satisfied that they do have those parking stalls arranged for.
[2:43] It passes the legal muster necessary to.
[2:46] Check the box.
[2:47] OK, primarily I think those will definitely be used for events.
[2:53] Like assemblies and such.
[2:55] During the day I don't see those being used, but.
[2:58] When there's overflow required, I definitely see those are required.
[3:01] Use umm.
[3:03] The second issue that the Planning Commission continued.
[3:07] On was the.
[3:08] Emergency access dimensions of the fire lane behind the school.
[3:13] As you saw in your site plan.
[3:15] There's an existing emergency driveway along the backside.
[3:19] Proposed to be extended.
[3:21] In order to accommodate.
[3:23] The expansion of the gymnasium in the school.
[3:27] The width of that.
[3:29] Driveway.
[3:30] Narrows in some locations.
[3:33] And required some specific code modifications from Unified Fire Authority.
[3:38] And also the state Fire Marshall's office.
[3:41] I have included a letter.
[3:42] In your packet.
[3:44] That the applicant has reached.
[3:46] An agreement and approval.
[3:48] With.
[3:48] Both the state and unified fire authority on the dimensions of that fire lien as it's proposed in your opinion or?
[3:54] Packet tonight.
[3:56] So the TRC is satisfied that both of those requirements.
[4:01] Are satisfied and.
[4:02] Can be presented for the Planning Commission for a final review.
[4:07] Based upon some comments I believe.
[4:09] You closed. Did you close?
[4:11] Public comment.
[4:11] On this.
[4:13] I believe we kept it open when we continued it.
[4:16] I didn't have.
[4:18] And you know, it's unless I roll them here. Oh yes, you did close it.
[4:21] Oh, did I?
[4:22] Yeah, great.
[4:25] There were some comments that I.
[4:27] Tried to address in your packet from neighboring property owners.
[4:32] Primarily having to do with noise and.
[4:37] I want to ensure that the record is very clear that the.
[4:41] Statutory.
[4:43] Regulation, uh.
[4:44] For municipalities.
[4:45] States that there's only a few things that we can review on when we look at.
[4:50] State level type projects. Funded projects.
[4:54] Specifically, some landscaping fencing.
[4:56] Those types of things are not something that we can require or mandate from the property owner.
[5:03] As long as it's life.
[5:06] Related.
[5:07] Those are the elements that are the land use authority, the Planning Commission.
[5:11] Can review.
[5:12] And mandate as a site plan requirement.
[5:15] The only other issue that.
[5:17] The TRC reviewed.
[5:19] And is satisfied that doesn't conflict with city of Holiday.
[5:23] Regulations is the protection of the stream bank.
[5:27] And we have written a requirement in.
[5:30] Requested.
[5:31] That you review one of the recommendations from the staff is that.
[5:35] That be maintained.
[5:36] That all the trees that the apex at the top of the Creek.
[5:40] Are not to be impacted by this driveway expansion.
[5:44] Based upon the dimensions that have been.
[5:46] Shown in your drawings, we don't believe that will be an issue.
[5:51] However.
[5:52] There has been a concern from.
[5:54] Abutting property owners voiced to Salt Lake County flood control.
[5:58] And some other.
[5:59] County and state entities that.
[6:02] That could potentially be a violation of county flood control permits.
[6:06] I have been copied and CC D on several e-mail from the Division of Wild or Division of Water Rights, Salt Lake County Flood
[6:10] control.
[6:14] Salt Lake County regional Parks.
[6:17] About reviewing this project at their level.
[6:21] So I will.
[6:22] They are working the applicant.
[6:24] Is working with Salt Lake County.
[6:27] Flood control on their flood control.
[6:30] Permitting.
[6:30] Which is out sort of outside of this purview.
[6:35] If they see any violations similar to what we see with fire.
[6:38] The fire access situation.
[6:41] The applicant will be dealing with them directly.
[6:44] And should not impose.
[6:48] A review at our level.
[6:51] Restriction review from our level at.
[6:53] As far as an approval is concerned.
[6:55] If that makes sense.
[6:59] I think that makes sense. I mean.
[7:01] In this particular zone where.
[7:04] Really limited and.
[7:05] Relying heavily on city staff to.
[7:08] Kind of paint that line we're towing and they're towing, right? This is a really, really strange situation.
[7:14] 2016 we had a this school.
[7:17] Reviewed.
[7:19] And approved at a state level.
[7:21] A floodplain.
[7:22] If you you may or may not know.
[7:24] The The Creekside Park is a flood retention basin.
[7:28] And the the earthen hill that many.
[7:30] Frisbee golfers used to drive off of.
[7:33] Is a dam.
[7:35] The dam is regulated by a floodgate.
[7:38] That is improved conditions dramatically.
[7:41] But in the event that that earthen dam.
[7:44] Ruptures, fails, whatever.
[7:47] There are there is 1983 modeling that shows most of those homes West of the dam all the way to.
[7:54] 9th East being inundated with a level of water.
[7:59] But that would that's a modeling situation that.
[8:02] Is based on 1983 models.
[8:06] A lot of upstream improvements have taken place since then.
[8:10] However, regardless, the school is there.
[8:12] It's in a floodplain. It has a flood control permit.
[8:15] So any modifications to that?
[8:17] Is the applicant's responsibility to apply to the counties at the county level?
[8:22] So accordingly.
[8:23] The 2016 approval from the Planning Commission.
[8:27] There's an original letter.
[8:28] In your packet.
[8:29] All of those conditions should remain in place.
[8:33] And I think we made that clear in staff recommendations in addition to clarifying that.
[8:39] Unified Fire Authority has approved.
[8:41] The the.
[8:44] Modifications to the width of that driveway in the back.
[8:47] And additional parking stalls have been secured off site.
[8:52] So if approved tonight and everything moves forward and then.
[8:57] A 1983 flood hits and puts it underwater. It's not the city's fault.
[9:02] Is what I'm hearing. We've reviewed that in the county.
[9:05] Flood control.
[9:06] Has approved approved a project there.
[9:08] OK. Any other questions around the first item?
[9:13] All right. Well, we appreciate your.
[9:15] Thorough diligence and.
[9:17] Getting that vetted out, John.
[9:21] Next, item number 2.
[9:23] The zone map amendment from.
[9:25] 121 to pee on memory.
[9:30] Yeah. So this is justice.
[9:33] I will be handling that.
[9:35] So that's that's an application for a rezone from a single family residential to.
[9:41] The public zone.
[9:43] The subject property is currently owned by.
[9:46] Holiday Memorial Cemetery.
[9:50] The call intent is to expand the existing cemetery.
[9:53] Which is directly South of the subject property.
[9:56] And in order for them to do that.
[9:58] They would have to go through a rezone in order to.
[10:01] Accommodate that.
[10:02] Primary cemetery use.
[10:04] For that zone. So that's what this one's about.
[10:11] And if.
[10:12] If that zone.
[10:14] Change is approved and it is rezoned as P.
[10:18] Is there any like?
[10:20] Potential that they could.
[10:22] Sell it off to something that could be other than a cemetery.
[10:30] Not really.
[10:31] That the primary use for.
[10:34] That the P zone.
[10:35] I mean, it's institutional.
[10:37] When you check the general plan institutional.
[10:40] And open space.
[10:44] They already mentioned in the narrative that.
[10:47] They're hot priced for space.
[10:50] Right now as it is.
[10:51] For the cemetery.
[10:52] And that's the core intent to do that. So I don't think.
[10:56] There is any other?
[10:57] Motives to.
[10:59] Use it for a different purpose.
[11:01] Sure. I just, you know.
[11:03] Hard times. Like I can think of 1,000,000 doomsday scenarios in my head up here so.
[11:07] Just wanted.
[11:08] Make sure it's not something that could go.
[11:10] A different direction. I think it makes sense looking at the map and.
[11:14] Everything.
[11:16] Questions on this one.
[11:18] Just two questions.
[11:21] This is just the rezone if they decide to develop it with roads or any kind of buildings you know.
[11:28] In accordance with the.
[11:30] Cemetery use that would come back.
[11:31] Before the committee.
[11:35] That's that.
[11:36] For example, when the mausoleum was constructed, that did come back for a site plan review.
[11:42] I'm not sure if they're.
[11:43] Planning on anything like that?
[11:45] Sure. My second question is a personal one.
[11:48] My mom is buried there. Is that a close personal connection for which I would have to recuse myself?
[11:55] Is there a financial gain?
[11:57] Nope.
[11:59] OK, just to be clear, she's buried in the cemetery. Not the lot that they want to turn into one.
[12:05] That's great.
[12:10] All right.
[12:13] Be something else entirely. All right #3 the.
[12:17] Text amendment for the Holiday Village.
[12:20] Building height standards.
[12:23] Chair, I have.
[12:25] That item tonight?
[12:27] We've been approached, the city has been approached with an application to amend the.
[12:31] The height standards in the village.
[12:34] Specifically for ones.
[12:35] One spot.
[12:37] Only.
[12:38] Which?
[12:39] Is odd because that height standard extends to.
[12:43] Multiple properties within the village zone.
[12:47] The applicant tonight.
[12:48] Is in preparation of redevelopment.
[12:51] Plans.
[12:51] For this corner.
[12:53] Those plans are not.
[12:54] Under review tonight.
[12:56] They've been provided to you as a concept, as in a packet, just to show you where they're at.
[13:04] In the in the design process.
[13:07] And where they're at.
[13:08] Is a.
[13:10] Limitation on the 35 foot height restriction for this specific area.
[13:16] Just to clarify.
[13:18] This is a.
[13:19] Text amendment to change.
[13:21] The height allowance from 35 to 50 feet. This is not a review of site plan or.
[13:26] Building design or?
[13:27] Civil designs or.
[13:29] Natural hazard.
[13:30] Issues.
[13:32] We have I've emailed all of you a.
[13:35] Set of public comment that have come in over the past few days.
[13:39] Hopefully you receive that.
[13:43] I think you can.
[13:45] Guess what the tenor is around the neighborhood.
[13:49] As to the public opinion on amending building heights in the village?
[13:54] But I wanted to offer just a quick history background that I provided in the staff report.
[13:59] We did have originally in the village zone, some heights that you are you don't see here.
[14:06] And they were a little bit taller.
[14:08] The City Council.
[14:10] Enacted A moratorium to study building heightened density and.
[14:13] And I believe it's 2016.
[14:16] And I was part of.
[14:17] That review committee.
[14:20] And proposed.
[14:22] New building heights.
[14:23] Based upon.
[14:25] The goals of the Council at the time and then.
[14:27] Also, what development?
[14:29] Potential was quote UN quote left on the table.
[14:32] Based upon the.
[14:34] The clock tower building of the village.
[14:36] That's being that's completed already.
[14:40] They built to a height that they determined was appropriate for their development.
[14:44] Which they could have gone higher.
[14:46] The council at the time said there really isn't a need to go any higher than those buildings.
[14:50] In other parts of the village, so.
[14:53] Pretty much rest of the heights were lowered.
[14:55] To match that.
[14:56] Level of elevation.
[15:00] Accordingly.
[15:01] From at least my point of view of being on that committee.
[15:05] And not understanding where the Council's point of view is at that time.
[15:09] Recommending a building height that goes from 35 to 50 that really doesn't height really isn't allowed anywhere else in the
[15:12] village.
[15:16] Would not be something that the staff could.
[15:18] Support.
[15:20] However, you can definitely hold a moderate or moderated conversation with the applicant on the merits of it.
[15:26] But.
[15:28] Limiting it to the vision and the goals. Statements from the village.
[15:31] And then the master plan.
[15:34] Not necessarily on their design proposals.
[15:37] Of their concept.
[15:39] Only because the concept itself.
[15:41] The layout was.
[15:42] Based upon.
[15:43] Assuming a 50 foot height standard.
[15:47] So.
[15:49] I apologize in advance, I was.
[15:51] Traveling and then my power was out this afternoon when I got home, so I had not had a chance to.
[15:57] Thoroughly read through the packet.
[16:01] How many comments were there?
[16:04] In the packet, would you say?
[16:06] I just emailed them.
[16:08] Two hours ago and I would say.
[16:11] A dozen? OK.
[16:14] Would you?
[16:15] To guess if there were any in favor.
[16:18] There are none in favor. OK.
[16:23] I have a question.
[16:25] As far as the 50 feet?
[16:28] They're just calling it.
[16:29] They want the application to be universal, so.
[16:33] I'm wondering if there couldn't be more of an architectural.
[16:37] Context or a contextual architecture?
[16:40] Element added to that where there may be some heights.
[16:44] That would be appropriate.
[16:46] In the scale of.
[16:48] Adjacency to single family or.
[16:50] To streets and that type of thing.
[16:52] To me it's kind of troubling where they're just wanting a blanket.
[16:55] 50 feet.
[16:57] Without.
[16:57] Any real?
[16:59] Discussion about.
[17:02] You know.
[17:02] To me, that's a huge impact.
[17:05] Yeah. So I'm just.
[17:06] Curious if there's a way that we could look at it differently maybe?
[17:10] That could take in some aspects of this.
[17:15] There can be.
[17:17] There is there was an idea at the time to have.
[17:21] The corridor.
[17:22] Buildings that were right up on Murray or on Holiday Blvd. Be higher.
[17:26] And then they'd step.
[17:27] You know, down as you get closer to the residential properties to the West.
[17:33] All of the residential properties that.
[17:35] To the West, except for.
[17:36] Couple of homes.
[17:38] Are in the room zone and they're large enough to have 40 foot heights.
[17:42] So if we were talking about it, that change of five feet to 40.
[17:46] With some architectural review.
[17:49] That could.
[17:50] Potentially be a consideration.
[17:52] I mean, to me, it's kind of difficult to kind of look at this.
[17:55] They're showing kind of a.
[17:58] Proposed project without showing the project.
[18:01] You know, just saying, hey, we're going to have all these really cool things.
[18:05] But we need 50 feet.
[18:07] So.
[18:08] Again, I think what you're saying the 40 feet maybe?
[18:12] The appropriate.
[18:13] Number. Umm.
[18:16] I didn't get a good sense when I was looking through.
[18:19] All of this.
[18:21] Just to be.
[18:22] Real clear on this.
[18:23] What's before us tonight?
[18:26] Is we want all of the holiday village to raise the 50 feet.
[18:30] That's the proposal period. There's no.
[18:33] Any like we can put whatever narrative.
[18:35] Stamp you want on it, but that's the the language and the amendment that's before us yeah, there's a highlighted.
[18:42] There's a map in your packet that's highlighted in yellow.
[18:45] That's the area that they're specifically asking.
[18:48] So it's not the whole village, it's just that corner of it. It would be difficult.
[18:53] To approve 50 feet without considering the rest of the village as a whole.
[18:59] That highlighted area there.
[19:02] So your your.
[19:04] The figure of 13.71 point 3.
[19:07] In the code would be amended.
[19:09] To include that red highlighted area.
[19:11] As a.
[19:13] Development.
[19:15] Aspect.
[19:16] Of the village that is allowed to 50 feet.
[19:20] 50 foot heights.
[19:21] And Le Chapel.
[19:22] Currently is zoned at a Max of what was it 40.
[19:26] 40.
[19:27] For their zone.
[19:28] Right, OK.
[19:38] OK, I mean.
[19:40] John when I was reading it.
[19:44] Somewhere in there and specifically said that.
[19:46] They wanted to measure the 50 feet.
[19:49] From the Holiday Blvd. side.
[19:52] Does that mean that it would be more than 50 feet at the other end, which is?
[19:57] 15 feet lower.
[19:59] Yes, OK.
[20:00] So effective.
[20:02] Say it's 15 feet.
[20:04] When I drive down to Walgreens.
[20:05] It seems like about 15 feet, so that would put it at 65 on the West.
[20:11] Next to Angela Chappelle.
[20:13] Yeah, potentially without looking at.
[20:15] Civil Grading.
[20:17] Just in my mind's eye.
[20:19] Picturing what that hillside looks like, at least 10 feet drop.
[20:23] So it would make a world of difference.
[20:26] If the.
[20:27] If if it was 35 that holiday.
[20:30] It might be 50 at the back.
[20:33] Which might give you.
[20:34] What you're talking about?
[20:37] Yeah.
[20:39] It's a good or bad idea. I'm just thinking that.
[20:42] I noticed when they.
[20:43] Called out that they wanted that measure from Holiday Blvd.
[20:46] That added.
[20:48] A whole new dimension to.
[20:50] How that holds?
[20:51] Block would be done.
[20:54] Yeah, currently.
[20:55] So for example, when you look at the Apollo Square building that was just constructed.
[21:00] All heights are measured from the abutting curve.
[21:03] So as that building goes down the street, you can see it on the uphill side, It's sunk into the ground.
[21:08] Considerably. Umm.
[21:09] In order to get the West End to work.
[21:12] Under the building.
[21:14] So if a building.
[21:16] Being constructed here, we would be measuring height from the abutting curbside, which would be the Arbor Lane side.
[21:23] The only other comment I had night.
[21:25] The earlier we probably say this, the better.
[21:29] If the only issue in front of us is the height.
[21:33] I think the public ought.
[21:34] To not be talking about anything else. I noticed I'm reading real quickly.
[21:39] The 12 emails we have everything from historic sites and.
[21:43] Polls and all kinds of things which multifamily yeah and that and.
[21:50] I would I would like to.
[21:51] Make sure that we keep.
[21:54] The focus of the.
[21:56] Public comment.
[21:58] On the only issue in front of us.
[22:00] The height.
[22:02] That is a.
[22:03] Great call. Now, thank you, Commissioner. We'll make sure when it's time to open the public hearing, we reiterate that.
[22:10] In addition to that, I think it's important that the public knows that it's for a recommendation.
[22:15] The Council is the one that.
[22:17] Makes the modifications.
[22:18] So what's before you is whether you want to make it positive or a negative.
[22:22] Or neutral recommendation.
[22:24] To the City Council on the.
[22:25] On a change here.
[22:28] OK, both good suggestions. I've written them down. Thank you.
[22:33] All right. So that should be an interesting discussion. We have a couple more items, any other?
[22:38] Questions we need on this in the work session.
[22:40] OK, so moving to item number 4.
[22:44] This is the text amendment for the arts and cultural land uses within the Holiday Village zone. Is this.
[22:51] The same applicant.
[22:53] No. OK, this is a joint application.
[22:57] Between city of holiday.
[22:59] And a recent business owner.
[23:03] From what I understand, multiple business owners within the village.
[23:07] In the village.
[23:08] All storefronts.
[23:11] That are at the ground level on Holiday Blvd. and Murray Holiday Rd.
[23:17] Required retail.
[23:18] Only.
[23:20] And that was a point.
[23:22] Of umm.
[23:23] Concern with the City Council when the village was established.
[23:27] In 2005.
[23:29] In order to preserve.
[23:31] Commercial tax dollars because the the Cottonwood Mall was.
[23:35] Stalled at that.
[23:38] So the requirement for land uses at the ground level within the village was retail.
[23:44] However, as.
[23:45] The time has time has gone by. There's a lot of other accessory uses that.
[23:50] Business owners would like to entertain.
[23:52] That are off hours.
[23:55] Off peak service.
[23:56] You know that would maybe supplement also.
[23:58] Their retail businesses.
[24:01] And with recent events, a couple of business owners that.
[24:07] Have moved into the village.
[24:09] And some elements of.
[24:11] Recitals our galleries.
[24:13] Things that can attract.
[24:15] The public.
[24:16] For arts and culture type.
[24:18] Situations.
[24:20] Would be beneficial for their property use.
[24:23] Or their their retail business operations?
[24:26] And the city agrees.
[24:28] That can be something that can could be accommodated so.
[24:31] What the city is proposing the.
[24:33] Planning Commission Look at Tonight is opening that topic for discussion.
[24:38] Staff has created a new land use category that.
[24:42] Property owners in the village can take advantage of as an accessory use.
[24:46] Which is this idea of?
[24:49] And arts and culture type of land use.
[24:52] And that would include like similar land uses of, like I mentioned, art galleries and recitals and.
[24:59] Smaller gatherings that would be related to arts and culture.
[25:03] So just for tonight, staff is recommending you open the public comment period.
[25:08] And continue the item for further discussion as we flush this idea out.
[25:14] Can I ask you a question about that?
[25:18] There is the music studio that's already there.
[25:21] Does that counties retail?
[25:24] Like music lessons?
[25:25] The Steinway.
[25:27] No the umm.
[25:29] I'm thinking of the one right by the.
[25:31] The one next to Relic.
[25:33] Yes.
[25:34] Right, that would be similar to take advantage of.
[25:37] Recite is when they have.
[25:39] Those there, yes.
[25:41] And similarly, I think they would like to have our gallery in that space as well.
[25:47] So we're going to.
[25:49] Continue the public hearing.
[25:51] As well then we're not closing that.
[25:54] And this is just Step 1 is what I'm hearing.
[25:57] Yeah, Step 1. You know you'll hear. We'll have a.
[26:00] Maybe maybe a potential additional discussion with staff?
[26:03] I have a couple of business owners that will be here to present their side of things.
[26:07] And their point of view, but.
[26:09] Definitely open to continue it and then.
[26:12] We'll have more.
[26:14] As we bring this.
[26:15] Closer to a vote.
[26:17] More detail.
[26:19] OK.
[26:20] All right. Thank you. And the last item we have on here is another text amendment for the Holiday Hills.
[26:29] Table of land uses.
[26:33] Yeah, that's me as well.
[26:35] We've been approached by the the property owner to add.
[26:39] Professional services to the existing land use table in the Site Development Master Plan for the Royal Holiday Hills site.
[26:46] Similarly.
[26:47] That this professional services or I'm sorry, personal services.
[26:52] Land use was omitted from that.
[26:54] Land use table as far as business operations.
[26:58] Personal services, by definition, are similar to those that are salons, nail salons.
[27:04] Anything that would be.
[27:06] Service of.
[27:08] Therapy, that type of thing.
[27:11] They're asking for that you used to be included in the table to accommodate new.
[27:15] Tenants.
[27:18] Do we have public comment on that in the packet?
[27:21] Yes, OK.
[27:23] Do you remember what the overall sentiment was? No, No written comment. There was no written comment on that. OK.
[27:30] Sorry, it would be open public comment for tonight.
[27:34] All right, questions on #5?
[27:37] Your city staff.
[27:39] All right with that.
[27:41] We will conclude the work session.
[27:43] And we will just take a very quick break before we start the.
[27:47] Meeting them.
[28:01] Chair really Glass before we end tonight.
[28:05] We have.
[28:06] A small presentation we'd like to give to Commissioner Font.
[28:11] As her being her her last meeting with us tonight.
[28:14] So if you want to wait for just a few minutes after.
[28:17] That before we adjourn, we can do that.
[28:19] OK, fantastic.
[28:24] Unless you want to do it first and include everybody here in that celebration.
[28:39] All right.
[28:52] Let's play some quick musical chairs here. Commissioner Prince will not be joining us.
[28:58] She's great. She's on a golf course.
[29:14] Like if you got to be somewhere else.
[29:18] That's not fair.
[29:21] Appreciation should be assessed by.
[29:23] I mean, I've applied that. That's where I was 2 days ago.
[29:29] Right.
[29:31] That's fair, all right.
[29:33] Get you on the selfie here.
[29:47] Maybe a four stroke penalty.
[29:57] All right, we'll quit playing around. We ready.
[30:00] OK.
[30:04] All right, Good evening, everyone. Welcome to the Holiday City Planning Commission, Tuesday, June 16th. It is 6:02 PM.
[30:11] Tonight we have.
[30:12] Five items on the agenda and we.
[30:16] Have all commissioners except Commissioner Prince in attendance?
[30:20] Three members of city Staffs.
[30:22] And Council present to keep us on the right track here.
[30:25] And I have asked Commissioner Font if she would read the opening statement for us.
[30:32] The City of Holiday Planning Commission is a volunteer citizen board whose function is to review land use plans and other special
[30:36] studies.
[30:40] Make recommendations to the City Council on proposed zoning map and ordinance changes.
[30:46] And approve conditional uses and subdivisions.
[30:50] The Planning Commission does not initiate land use applications.
[30:54] Rather, acts on applications as they are submitted.
[30:57] Commissioners do not meet with applicants except at publicly noticed meetings.
[31:03] Commissioners attempt to visit each property on the agenda.
[31:06] Where the location, the nature of the neighborhood, existing structures and uses related to the proposed change are noted.
[31:14] Decisions are based on observations, recommendations from the professional planning staff.
[31:20] The city's general plan.
[31:22] Zoning ordinance and other reports.
[31:25] By all verbal and written comments.
[31:27] And by evidence submitted.
[31:29] All of which are part of the public record.
[31:33] Thank you very much, Commissioner, appreciate that.
[31:39] And with that.
[31:41] We will roll into our first item tonight.
[31:46] Public hearing was closed in the last meeting.
[31:49] But there was.
[31:50] A continuance.
[31:52] And if city staff just wants to give a quick recap on that for us?
[31:57] And then we can invite the applicant up to.
[31:59] Address.
[32:00] Anything. Umm.
[32:01] Thank you, Chair Roach.
[32:03] The staff is in receipt of a couple of items that the Planning Commission requested the the applicant to return.
[32:10] To this meeting too.
[32:12] Specifically looking for.
[32:14] Compliance standards and.
[32:17] For dimensions of emergency fire lane access.
[32:22] Away from the beautiful harmony of.
[32:25] The heavens of harps.
[32:30] The Unified Fire Authority and the State Fire Marshall has worked with the applicant to come with a determination that they.
[32:37] They can both agree on.
[32:39] And the TRC has recommended that.
[32:42] That be reviewed as part of the packet.
[32:44] The second item was to include some.
[32:47] A long term parking agreement, off site parking agreement for.
[32:50] 15 stalls the applicant has been closely engaged with.
[32:55] The LDS Church across the street and then the Senior Center.
[32:58] Which is across the street and further.
[33:00] Further east.
[33:02] The staff has seen those draft agreements and.
[33:05] Can verify that.
[33:07] Those are can be executed.
[33:10] According to the Planning Commission's requirements.
[33:13] Staff has provided some recommendations in your packet, which also includes.
[33:18] An approval letter dated from 2016.
[33:22] All conditions of which still should remain in place.
[33:26] And also including those that are in the the recommendation as far as.
[33:31] Stream bank protection.
[33:32] And uh.
[33:33] Maintaining the parking stalls.
[33:36] As well as an agreement for code modification for.
[33:39] For the emergency driveway behind the back of the building.
[33:42] The applicant is going to be will be expected to continue this conversation with.
[33:48] The state and county on other issues.
[33:50] But as far as the city of holiday is concerned?
[33:53] TRC has been able to review what?
[33:55] We can.
[33:56] As far as our statutory compliance.
[34:00] OK, Commissioners, any?
[34:02] Questions for staff.
[34:04] And do we want to invite the applicant back up?
[34:07] To adding additional information to that if they're here tonight.
[34:18] Sorry, I'll speak up a little bit better.
[34:23] Hi, I'm Ricky. Excuse me, Ricky Parkinson with backup design representing.
[34:28] I'm not sure that the microphones on. Is there a little button on the side there?
[34:32] Is that on now? Oh, you got it. Nailed it.
[34:35] My name is Ricky Parkinson with Babcock Design representing the school.
[34:39] I've been the one working closely with Jonathan to to resolve all the concerns and and as he's has mentioned, we've.
[34:45] We, you know, have worked to resolve all the concerns.
[34:48] Couple things still outstanding with the with the flood control that.
[34:51] We are near resolving. We're just waiting for a final approval on on what we've sent, but.
[34:55] We have, yeah. We feel like we're we're in compliance and we're excited to.
[34:59] To be able to.
[35:00] Get approval to move forward.
[35:01] All right, if there's any other questions, I'd be happy to address them.
[35:05] Questions for the applicant.
[35:06] Just a quick clarification. I think last time there was a concern about the road being narrow.
[35:11] And it looks like the.
[35:12] Fire marshals.
[35:14] Letter does confirm the 26 foot width. That's including. My understanding is that's because the curb sort of rolls. It's not a
[35:18] straight curb and that includes the.
[35:22] The space all the way up to the building, is that right?
[35:24] Correct. In one section there's there's about.
[35:27] A 10 foot section that that's true. He only needed a 2016. He didn't need 26 feet all the way around. They only needed it where
[35:33] they would park their vehicle, which would be kind of in that southwest corner. So there is a portion of it where it.
[35:39] Starts to roll up, so it would be.
[35:41] Yeah, just.
[35:42] Just kind of.
[35:44] Northwest of where the crosswalk is.
[35:47] It would park further up.
[35:49] Got it. OK.
[35:50] Thank you. Perfect.
[35:51] All right. Any other questions for the applicant?
[35:53] Great. We'll go ahead and have you sit down. Thank you.
[35:56] And uh.
[35:57] Commissioners, we went over this in the work meeting. I think staff's done a great job of.
[36:01] Answering all the questions we had from the prior meeting, and unless there's any other discussion needed, I am more than happy to
[36:06] entertain any motions that might be made at this time.
[36:11] I'd be happy to make a motion.
[36:15] And this is Commissioner Cunningham and I move for the approval of the site plan amendments to Wasatch Waldorf.
[36:21] Charter school located at 1458 E Murray Holiday Rd.
[36:25] Within the P zone finding.
[36:27] That the proposal won as.
[36:30] Received approval and has received approvals from the state and local fire Marshall's offices.
[36:35] Two additional off site parking has been arranged in long term agreement.
[36:40] With the adjacent property owner.
[36:43] Three new building addition is located with permissible setbacks.
[36:47] Building area of the P zone.
[36:49] And with the following suggested subjective conditions as allowed by state code annotated.
[36:54] 1020.
[36:56] The 04 sub 2 sub B.
[37:00] The one amendment does not replace or alter conditions set forth in the original approval letter.
[37:06] Dated 218 of 2016.
[37:09] File #16-9-01.
[37:13] Two offsite parking agreements shall be maintained.
[37:16] Further alterations to parking or traffic circulation.
[37:19] May require Planning Commission preview review.
[37:23] Three, the original.
[37:24] Traffic control plans will be maintained.
[37:27] And strictly adhered to assure safety for both.
[37:31] Pedestrians and general public at this location as it relates to the operation of all.
[37:36] School activities this includes limited.
[37:39] Turn left.
[37:41] Exiting movements.
[37:42] No parking, standing or drop off or pickup or students on either side of Murray Holiday Rd.
[37:47] And facility.
[37:49] Faculty directing traffic both.
[37:51] Along the circulation Rd.
[37:54] And drop our points and out the ingress and egress opening, et cetera.
[37:59] If this plan does not yield the necessary safety or efficiency.
[38:03] The city, as allowed by state law and for the safety and common good of the general public and the school, will require submittal.
[38:10] Of an amended operational plan that will be considered an appearance before the Planning Commission.
[38:16] And five, the Creek bank and immediate area must be preserved free from damage.
[38:21] To embankments and trees.
[38:25] All right, we have a motion. Do we have a second?
[38:27] I second.
[38:28] Commissioner.
[38:29] Gone has seconded. We'll call for a vote. Commissioner Cunningham. Aye. Commissioner Trippin.
[38:33] Aye, Commissioner, Flaunt. Aye, Commissioner, gom aye.
[38:35] Commissioner Barron.
[38:36] Aye and Chair Roach both Aye and.
[38:39] That will move forward.
[38:41] Thank you. Thank you.
[38:43] All right. And with that, we will now move to the second item, which is the zone map amendment from 1:21 to P.
[38:52] On memory lane.
[38:54] And if city staff will walk us through that, that would be great.
[38:57] All right. I appreciate this opportunity, Chair.
[39:01] So this is city.
[39:03] Justice.
[39:04] City Planner.
[39:06] I'm handling this case so this is a.
[39:09] Proposed amendment to the zone map.
[39:12] The subject property is located at 4901 S.
[39:16] Memory lane.
[39:18] This property is just north of the cemetery, Holiday Memorial Cemetery.
[39:23] The size of this property is approximately 2.4 acres.
[39:28] The property is currently owned by.
[39:30] Holiday Memorial Cemetery.
[39:33] And the applicant is proposing to rezone.
[39:35] In its current designation from.
[39:38] R121 which essentially.
[39:40] Means single family residential zone.
[39:42] To public zone.
[39:44] And the intent here is to.
[39:47] Enable them.
[39:48] To be able to expand the cemetery.
[39:51] In the narrative for the applicant, they indicated that the cemetery.
[39:55] Is currently facing constraints.
[39:57] In terms of availability of land for.
[40:00] Them to.
[40:02] Proceed with the current services that they offer.
[40:05] The holiday community.
[40:07] So the rezone is intended to help them expand this service.
[40:12] To the community.
[40:13] Now you will find in the staff report or in the packet that.
[40:17] Staff did some analysis, waiting.
[40:20] Whether this rezone advances?
[40:23] The purpose of the general plan as well as advance the public interest.
[40:28] And also the future development in that.
[40:30] Area and then.
[40:32] Finally.
[40:34] The last analysis was.
[40:35] To establish whether there's.
[40:37] Rezone is actually necessary.
[40:39] In order for them to.
[40:41] Proceed with what they're.
[40:42] They want to do.
[40:44] Staff These 4.
[40:46] Element of the analysis and.
[40:49] City staff believes that.
[40:51] This proposed rezone advances all these four elements that.
[40:56] I'm talking about.
[40:57] And.
[40:58] Positive recommendation.
[40:59] Was moved forward by city staff.
[41:02] So I'm open to any questions or.
[41:05] Clarifications that I needed.
[41:08] Mr. Bear.
[41:09] I was wondering about.
[41:10] If they build any buildings on this new property.
[41:13] What are the setbacks that would be required?
[41:16] Or is that just the site plan review that?
[41:19] Planning Commission looks at.
[41:20] And determines.
[41:24] Can you tell me roughly what?
[41:26] The set back.
[41:27] A building would be.
[41:30] So, John.
[41:32] The development standards in in the P zone they they are established.
[41:38] John, are you opening that up?
[41:40] So John should be able to verify that.
[41:42] But.
[41:43] I'm just wondering if there's a.
[41:45] Degree that it can move back and forth based on.
[41:48] Site plan. Landscaping.
[41:50] Parking.
[41:52] And just to be fair to the people who are.
[41:55] This are going to live next to this. I don't mean to say it like that.
[41:59] But you know.
[42:01] Just so they have a little bit of.
[42:02] Protection or.
[42:04] Certainty of what could be.
[42:06] Expected in the future.
[42:08] And from what you were saying?
[42:10] John, maybe this doesn't have any.
[42:12] New construction just.
[42:14] Burial plots but.
[42:15] It's possible. I haven't heard of what the.
[42:18] Any buildings?
[42:19] That would be.
[42:20] Proposed.
[42:22] I can give you the setbacks.
[42:24] That are required within the P zone, however, through the site plan process.
[42:28] And those elements can be.
[42:31] Massaged based upon public comment or anything? OK, so it does we.
[42:34] Would we see the site plan or Zedge staff OK you would.
[42:38] So we that gives that property on a little bit of certainty of.
[42:42] Making sure that we've.
[42:44] Looked at that too SO.
[42:45] So thank you.
[42:46] Yeah. And just in line with that question.
[42:50] As far as building and building heights, setbacks, et cetera. But what qualifies as a building, for example?
[42:57] Could they put a mausoleum in there without a site plan?
[43:01] No, or like a small.
[43:03] Crypt or you know any of those?
[43:05] Above ground structures.
[43:07] Anything that the building code would consider a structure you would be reviewing.
[43:11] OK. All right.
[43:12] Thank you for that clarification.
[43:14] Any other questions for city staff on this?
[43:17] All right, with that, we'll invite the applicant up if they have anything they want to add.
[43:28] Good evening.
[43:29] How are you?
[43:31] It's good to be here, I think, to answer those questions. The purpose of this is not to immediately develop.
[43:40] The immediate need is to secure the future.
[43:43] And to bring land that's adjacent and secure that for operations.
[43:48] We have no median intent to develop it.
[43:51] Current structures on the parcel now.
[43:54] Are the Voda homestead.
[43:56] Which is the original home.
[43:58] Which we intend to office out of.
[44:02] And then there is a very historic 2 level barn about.
[44:06] 25 foot off.
[44:08] The East.
[44:09] Parceled by the canal.
[44:11] And our intent is to keep that in place and integrate that into our community events.
[44:17] We are big on involving the community and making sure that the Memorial Park is viewed as a park.
[44:25] That it is viewed as a value add to the community.
[44:29] We do a minimum of eight.
[44:30] Community events.
[44:32] Where we invite the community into the park.
[44:35] This particular park is heavily walked.
[44:39] A lot of strollers, a lot of dogs, a lot of Sunday and Saturday morning.
[44:46] So that's really the.
[44:48] Purpose of this is not to go vertical.
[44:51] It's more of a secure.
[44:53] Let's go through.
[44:54] The zone change now so that.
[44:56] As that need develops.
[44:59] We've already gone through the process.
[45:01] That's really our intent.
[45:03] We are big.
[45:05] This cemetery will turn 178 years this September.
[45:10] Wow, I think that is an incredible.
[45:13] Asset to the City of Holiday.
[45:15] That is.
[45:16] Often.
[45:17] Overlooked.
[45:19] We are the 5th owner of this land.
[45:22] If you go back in history.
[45:24] This cemetery historically.
[45:27] Has added acreage to it as it's developed based out of need.
[45:32] So that precedent is.
[45:34] Present the Britton family.
[45:37] Access the cemetery.
[45:38] Donated the land.
[45:40] To what is now Memory lane to access it off Murray Holiday Rd.
[45:46] And just as early as 50 years ago.
[45:49] The hearses would have to park.
[45:52] And then the pallbearers would have to carry the caskets because the hearse had no Rd.
[45:57] To venture on.
[45:59] And so this is just.
[46:01] Evolution.
[46:02] And so we want to be very proactive, we want to be very transparent.
[46:07] In regards to the needs.
[46:09] We have the privilege to care for about 150 families annually.
[46:14] At this particular Memorial Park.
[46:17] The land that we have now, we have about 10 to 11 years.
[46:23] And so with this addition and this proposed change.
[46:28] That goes from 10:50 years to 40 years.
[46:32] And our intent is involving the city with the.
[46:35] Plans.
[46:36] Making sure the community is fully informed.
[46:39] As we move and develop this parcel, but honestly.
[46:43] We you won't hear for that.
[46:45] In the next 10 years.
[46:47] The whole point is to secure it now.
[46:50] The change?
[46:52] Thank you. So any additional questions on any of that?
[46:54] That's really our purpose.
[46:57] Questions for the applicant.
[46:59] All right. Well, OK. Thank you.
[47:02] All right. And this is a public hearing.
[47:04] So members of the public are allowed to come in and speak specifically to the zone change, which is the proposal tonight.
[47:12] If you do choose to.
[47:14] Speak or make public comment, we ask that you come up to the podium.
[47:17] Clearly speak your name and address into the microphone.
[47:21] Please address the Commission, not members of the audience or the applicant.
[47:25] And you are?
[47:26] We ask that you.
[47:28] Make comment.
[47:29] 3 minutes or less and don't reiterate.
[47:32] Points that have already been made by anyone that went before you.
[47:35] And with that, if there's anyone which that wishes to make public comment on this item tonight.
[47:40] We invite you to do so now.
[47:44] Once. Twice.
[47:46] All right. With that, we'll go ahead and close the public hearing then.
[47:50] And commissioners.
[47:54] I mean, it seems pretty straightforward. Makes sense to me. Like, you know there's only two directions out or up, right?
[48:00] And up doesn't really work for very long.
[48:03] So.
[48:05] That said.
[48:10] What findings?
[48:11] Would we include in this motion?
[48:14] Paragraph above.
[48:18] All the TRC recommendations.
[48:20] Yeah, you can call it.
[48:22] OK, so.
[48:24] This is Commissioner Font.
[48:26] I motion to.
[48:28] Forward a recommendation to City Council to approve the application by Jordan Buckner.
[48:33] To amend the City of Holiday zoning map for 2.3 acres of land.
[48:38] Located at 4901 S Memory Lane from.
[48:42] The R121 zone to the P zone.
[48:45] Based upon the findings.
[48:47] Stated in the packet on page 8.
[48:51] As noted.
[48:52] By the TRC recommendations.
[48:56] I second that.
[48:57] Commissioner Baron Seconds.
[48:59] We will call for a vote, Commissioner Cunningham.
[49:01] Aye, Mr. Trippin, Aye, Mr. Flaunt. Aye, Commissioner, gone. Aye, Commissioner Barron.
[49:06] Aye. And Chair Roach votes aye. So with that, that will move forward with the forward recommendation. Thank you very much.
[49:14] All right.
[49:17] And now we move to item number 3, the Holiday Village building height standards.
[49:23] Text amendment.
[49:25] And we will ask city staff to.
[49:29] Once again, give us a.
[49:31] Breakdown of what's being.
[49:32] Asked for in this.
[49:33] Thank you.
[49:35] Application to the city tonight is a request to amend the standards.
[49:40] For building height.
[49:42] In the holiday village zone.
[49:44] The application has come to the TRC for review of completeness and has determined that.
[49:51] Based upon what's been provided by the applicant, the Planning Commission hearing can take place.
[49:57] To review this legislative matter.
[49:59] Planning Commission has requested to review.
[50:01] The application based upon the merits of the.
[50:04] The application of itself.
[50:06] And the narrative that's been provided.
[50:09] Also holding a.
[50:11] Interaction with the public.
[50:12] And the applicant.
[50:14] Staff report has been provided.
[50:17] To the Planning Commission to give some background as far as building heights in the village.
[50:21] How they've come to play to.
[50:24] To fruition over the past.
[50:26] 15 years or so.
[50:28] And then also provide a recommendation there.
[50:31] Is.
[50:33] Specifically, some elements in your staff report. They're provided from the applicant that show.
[50:39] Some concepts of development.
[50:42] Just to remind the Planning Commission that this is not what you would.
[50:46] Normally see as a site plan or a development review.
[50:50] This is a law change.
[50:52] This is not reviewing.
[50:54] Elements of the development itself as far as placement of buildings, driveways.
[50:58] Parking.
[50:59] Traffic, that type of thing.
[51:02] But as the applicant goes through.
[51:04] The exercises to create that site plan.
[51:08] They're discovering some concerns with the existing standards for building height.
[51:12] And they're requesting the Planning Commission.
[51:15] For recommendation and consequently the City Council for final determination on changing that law.
[51:22] And to clarify on that that.
[51:24] Not for the entire zone, but only this one specific area within the zone.
[51:29] The way that the application has been provided is for this highlighted section of the village.
[51:35] I'm looking at the motion.
[51:36] And it doesn't include the address, so.
[51:39] Would we need to include that to make sure there's no confusion? I would highlight it as you know the address, but highlighted as
[51:43] as provided in the Planning Commission packet. Yes. OK. Yeah, OK.
[51:49] So the approximately 4714 S.
[51:54] Sure.
[51:55] You can be in specific.
[51:58] If you Scroll down.
[52:00] Carrie, just to there is an actual code amendment which happens to be an illustration.
[52:06] Normally when you see code amendments, you'll see the staff strike through.
[52:10] Text or underline new text.
[52:13] Because the code that's being requested to be changed, is it graphic?
[52:17] That would be the graphic that you'd be using as a recommendation.
[52:21] And it follows this section so.
[52:24] This is the image.
[52:26] 13.71.
[52:28] .3 That's in the code that shows required heights.
[52:32] The shaded and hatched areas are kind of hard to see, but the red is the highlighted that's being proposed as as being amended.
[52:40] That would be your text amendment.
[52:44] Other questions for city staff.
[52:46] I'm just curious.
[52:47] How often has staff used?
[52:50] Site planning and.
[52:51] Context to determine heights to.
[52:54] Make sure there's an appropriateness to adjacent.
[52:57] Single family, multifamily residential.
[53:00] Or retail.
[53:02] To make.
[53:04] It doesn't, so this doesn't appear like it's just.
[53:07] Suddenly.
[53:10] Way too large for this piece of property.
[53:12] Not on the site by site basis, no.
[53:15] OK, we only use what's been provided.
[53:18] For example, in that image showing.
[53:20] You can see on the exterior areas of the village where it tapers down as you get closer to residential properties.
[53:27] That was the standard that the Council at the time was comfortable with.
[53:32] Otherwise you'd be looking at the like, and I'm going to use the term that many will probably not be familiar with, form based
[53:35] zoning.
[53:39] Where you would have.
[53:40] A tiered session of was sort of a wedding cake.
[53:43] Scenario in order to.
[53:46] Curtailed some impacts of height when you're next to.
[53:51] Adjacent properties or budding properties that are maybe incompatible.
[53:55] But don't have anything like that right now in the OK.
[54:01] Other questions for city staff.
[54:04] All right, with that, let's invite the applicant up for.
[54:08] Further discussion on this.
[54:14] My name is Josh Romney. I'm the applicant. I appreciate your time tonight and the opportunity to present to you.
[54:19] So just.
[54:20] Historical.
[54:21] Context to what's going on here the the Walgreens site.
[54:24] Believe it or not, has a lease.
[54:26] That's signed from 1974.
[54:27] So it's an old laser under.
[54:29] Still operating on that existing lease, so they're not paying a lot of rent, so.
[54:33] Their lease expires in about three years.
[54:36] So the likelihood of Walgreens being there is close to 0 for the, you know, the future owner, hopefully.
[54:41] Will be us.
[54:43] But you know, their lease is just such an old lease and the building would take.
[54:47] Such massive upgrades to actually bring it up to code and have to.
[54:50] Current Walgreens standards, I think there's.
[54:52] Really almost no scenario where that.
[54:54] That building or that existing useful stay.
[54:57] If any of you have been there recently, may have seen in the summer times they have.
[55:00] Swamp coolers going and.
[55:02] You know, kind of.
[55:03] Barely it's it's Scotch shaped and band aided together so.
[55:06] That site is is going to have to be.
[55:09] Revamped one way or the other.
[55:10] We've been.
[55:12] I've been trying to work with the developer or the owner of this site for a long time to try and tie it up.
[55:17] And finally was able to do so.
[55:19] We.
[55:21] I look at the city. Holiday is one of the jewels of Utah. This is, I think, the nicest city.
[55:27] In Utah.
[55:28] And I think.
[55:30] A place that a lot of people want to come to, to retire.
[55:33] A lot of people want to be in holiday. They don't necessarily want to be downtown Salt Lake.
[55:36] They may not want to be Park City.
[55:38] They look at holiday as a Salt Lake County.
[55:41] Address. That is one of I think the most.
[55:44] Valuable and prominent places to be in Utah so.
[55:47] The idea here is to build.
[55:50] A community and housing that would be very high end.
[55:54] That would be that would cater to people who are looking to downsize out of a home in holiday from.
[56:00] You know, potentially a large multi acre.
[56:02] Large home.
[56:03] To something that would be a smaller with.
[56:05] Literally no yard, no maintenance so people could stay in their in their town that they love.
[56:10] And still have a really high quality home. So that's kind of the vision we'd have commercial on the main floor restaurants.
[56:17] Doctor's offices, those types of things. Hopefully a small pharmacy Walgreens actually does have.
[56:22] A5 to 10,000.
[56:23] Floor Grant.
[56:25] Unit that they're that they're.
[56:27] Putting in all over the place now, they're kind of.
[56:29] Walking away from the bigger.
[56:32] Buildings that they have and looking at much smaller units.
[56:34] So potentially they could be a tenant. We haven't talked about that, but so I don't, I don't know, but that's the type of tenant
[56:37] we'd see in here.
[56:41] And you know, part of the challenge we have.
[56:43] With a 35 foot.
[56:45] Ceiling and we talked about.
[56:47] You know, residential being next door, residential is 35 feet as well. So there's really no difference between this commercial and
[56:51] residential side by side.
[56:55] 35 feet would allow us to have parking that we would not have to go underground with if we have to go underground and dig into the
[56:59] parking.
[57:02] We actually have pretty significant.
[57:05] We have significant.
[57:06] Impact from the dry cleaner and.
[57:09] The auto that's next door where they've the soils are relatively contaminated.
[57:14] At this point, if we just.
[57:16] If we don't go underground, we can just put a barrier down.
[57:19] A heavy barrier.
[57:21] And that would not.
[57:23] That would be all we have to do to remediate the soils that are there.
[57:26] When we start to go under underground, that would.
[57:28] Actually significantly add to the potential cost there, so.
[57:31] As we look at putting on.
[57:33] On level parking and the building above that.
[57:36] That that actually.
[57:38] You know that it really limits on what we could do in terms of increasing so.
[57:41] We think the 15 foot difference between the residential is next door and the commercials, right?
[57:46] Right here is actually pretty minimal.
[57:48] It's not a real big difference. It's nothing like what you're seeing in Mill Creek downtown.
[57:52] When the buildings do driving around here are seventy 8090 feet tall.
[57:55] Sees are really tall buildings. It would be nothing like that. This is, you know, four story building including the parking. So
[57:59] really three stories above grade, above parking is what you'd end up getting.
[58:04] Most likely with with 50 feet so.
[58:07] Not a huge.
[58:08] Difference, I think that what's happening on the residential next door in addition, if you kind of think about what's happening at
[58:11] the street level.
[58:14] The back of that lot, if you go all the way down the bottom of that lot, it drops 18 feet.
[58:18] So you're looking at the street level?
[58:20] You almost wouldn't see.
[58:22] Any difference in height between what's happening the street?
[58:24] I'm down to our property so.
[58:26] So really in fact.
[58:28] Some areas be lower.
[58:30] And you know, I think we're also willing to kind of work with the neighbors obviously next door. So if we do have it would come
[58:33] against the the housing.
[58:37] That's on the back. We wouldn't want to.
[58:38] Necessarily.
[58:39] Build a giant wall right there. We'd have setbacks and probably some.
[58:43] Some step up to get higher.
[58:45] As you go further away from the residential.
[58:47] So, umm.
[58:48] We're open to kind of.
[58:49] Any suggestions you have or any advice you'd have on how to make this?
[58:53] Fit in the community, but we do think.
[58:56] You know, ultimately having a three acre site and hopefully we're going to be 4 acres soon, we're working with the neighbors next
[58:59] door to acquire those.
[59:01] But a three to four acre site?
[59:03] In downtown, holiday is a rare thing.
[59:06] I don't know that we'll ever see something like this again.
[59:09] So we really want to take advantage, make sure that we.
[59:11] We build something that is.
[59:13] Beautiful for the city.
[59:14] This is this is my hometown. This is where I.
[59:16] Laying them work so it means a lot to me and.
[59:20] I will say.
[59:21] Financial.
[59:22] Benefit on this is.
[59:24] By far the lowest lowest level of. Why would it? Obviously ask? The pencil has to make sense. I can't lose money on this.
[59:29] But my goal is not to squeeze every penny out of this and make a lot of money.
[59:33] It's really to create something stunning and beautiful for the city of Holiday.
[59:37] And I think it will be a real crown jewel to the downtown.
[59:40] I'm happy to answer any questions on the specifics or any of this.
[59:43] Actually have an engineer with me as well that can answer and the engineering questions.
[59:47] I'll be happy to kind of answer.
[59:48] Any questions or concerns you might have?
[59:50] I have one question for you. You mentioned an 8 foot teen.
[59:53] 815 foot drop on the West side.
[59:56] And the way this.
[59:58] Is written out for the application. It's 50 feet at St. level, so would that not make it?
[1:00:04] 68 feet.
[1:00:05] On that West side if I'm mapping correctly.
[1:00:07] Yeah, I think we wouldn't. We certainly wouldn't.
[1:00:09] Go up to 68 feet on that on that one side.
[1:00:12] We're open to.
[1:00:14] Any kind of suggestions you have on that so?
[1:00:17] If.
[1:00:19] As we look at that back end.
[1:00:21] I mean I'm talking about existing code. So existing code would be would be 35 feet.
[1:00:25] On that back end.
[1:00:26] So that would be.
[1:00:27] Only like 15?
[1:00:28] Feet above.
[1:00:29] Street Grade.
[1:00:30] If you're looking back there.
[1:00:31] So.
[1:00:33] Yeah, I think.
[1:00:34] Ultimately what we want to do is step that down. We would not want to be at 68 feet on that backside.
[1:00:39] I think that would be egregious for the neighbors that are back there.
[1:00:42] So we clearly want to step that up as as a.
[1:00:44] As we reach or step that down as we go towards the back of the lot.
[1:00:49] OK, other questions for the applicant.
[1:00:53] I have a question.
[1:00:54] I'm sorry.
[1:00:55] Good. So you're talking about 50 feet?
[1:00:58] On the.
[1:00:59] Holiday Blvd. side.
[1:01:01] 50 feet.
[1:01:02] Yeah. So ideally what we'd love to see is 50 feet from the street grade, so is we're.
[1:01:06] As we headed out, but we would step that down quite a bit.
[1:01:08] So.
[1:01:09] You know, part of the.
[1:01:11] Part of the concern I have with the front neighbors.
[1:01:13] As I'm trying to acquire those neighbors.
[1:01:16] Is they don't really want to sell.
[1:01:17] They kind of want to stay as they are and as you know.
[1:01:20] Like you look at the.
[1:01:22] The transmission.
[1:01:23] Center is not necessarily a great look.
[1:01:25] For the city of holidays, come in and see transmission with the cars all there.
[1:01:29] He's open to selling, but he wants a lot of money.
[1:01:31] So for me to even be able to come close to where he'd want to be.
[1:01:35] I'm going to have to look at.
[1:01:37] Getting more density out of what he has on that front speed spot so.
[1:01:41] I'm not asking for rezone on that property right now at all. I have to come back and do that.
[1:01:45] But having a sense of what?
[1:01:47] Could be happening on that back property on my piece would kind of give us some sense. Would be happening in the front.
[1:01:52] And and the reality is we would probably still step it up. So even if we do acquire that front piece.
[1:01:56] I probably don't see myself going more than 35 feet on that front piece.
[1:02:01] You know, obviously have to come back here either way to ask for variance, but.
[1:02:04] It would be nice to see 35 feet in the front and then step up to 4555 so.
[1:02:08] As you're looking at residential properties are looking out onto Mount Olympus.
[1:02:12] It steps up and they all have great views of it.
[1:02:15] So you really would want to step that up.
[1:02:16] So, but we're happy to work with the city and say how do we make this work so it's beautiful, so it doesn't look like there's a
[1:02:19] big wall in the back.
[1:02:22] We don't want a 70 foot wall in the back.
[1:02:24] We'd obviously have setbacks either way. We don't want to see that.
[1:02:27] But we would love to see, you know, tiered.
[1:02:29] Tiered housing so that they can lookout.
[1:02:31] Get that beautiful view of Mount Olympus on one side.
[1:02:33] On the backside, that beautiful.
[1:02:35] View of Great Salt Lake.
[1:02:36] That hopefully will be there in a couple years, so.
[1:02:39] As long as we can keep that lake there, they'd have nice views of that, so it would again step down so you'd have great views the
[1:02:42] Great Salt Lake.
[1:02:45] From each unit.
[1:02:47] And so you brought up the transmission shop, which is not in this currently. Is that 2 lots immediately West of it? We don't need
[1:02:53] it. We don't control it, no, for sure. But that is part of the big plans. We're trying to acquire that.
[1:03:00] As well as Meyers chicken and the dry cleaner.
[1:03:03] So ideally we'd acquire all those properties and bring this in.
[1:03:06] So that would be one large development and part of that is.
[1:03:09] Part of this approval process is just understanding.
[1:03:12] What the value of this property is?
[1:03:13] So we can afford.
[1:03:15] To increase.
[1:03:17] How much we're offering those properties upfront so we can acquire those?
[1:03:20] But ultimately, that would be the the real.
[1:03:22] Crown Jewel is to bring those together.
[1:03:25] Make this a really.
[1:03:27] Vibrant neighborhood that.
[1:03:28] Would come straight from the street.
[1:03:30] To what you currently have control over possession of property wise is the large property just the three acres of Walgreens. We do
[1:03:33] not.
[1:03:37] Control or have any control those properties. So why not ask me for any zone changes there or any any amendments or anything done
[1:03:40] there?
[1:03:43] But we are in the process of trying to acquire those.
[1:03:46] Well, and.
[1:03:48] Correct me if I'm misreading this, I'm looking at the three properties inside a Red Square.
[1:03:53] Those are three properties you don't control, but you do want to have.
[1:03:56] The height increased on.
[1:03:59] I my understanding we do not want to increase the height on those at this point. We've come back another time. We have those
[1:04:02] under. I'm not.
[1:04:05] I mean, I don't control them, so I think they'd be.
[1:04:07] Difficult thing for me to come rezone. Am I miss reading this map John?
[1:04:11] No, you're right. I think that's from Staffs looking at the development proposal that was provided in the applicants narrative.
[1:04:14] That's the area that we highlighted.
[1:04:18] Because yeah, that.
[1:04:19] That's what we'd like to see eventually as what we control. I'd love to have that someday, but we don't have it yet.
[1:04:24] So we're just asking for the back piece right now.
[1:04:26] I don't control those front pieces, so we wouldn't want to.
[1:04:28] Make those changes and honestly, I'm not sure.
[1:04:31] That's something we'd even want to do at that point.
[1:04:33] If we didn't want to increase the height of those front units.
[1:04:36] I mean, we'd take it, but I'm not sure we'd actually use it.
[1:04:39] Well, you know, just.
[1:04:42] From my own perspective looking at this if it.
[1:04:45] **** it's.
[1:04:46] Sent with a forward recommendation and City Council approves it.
[1:04:49] Those three properties could.
[1:04:51] Sell, bulldoze, give it to somebody else and build 50 foot whatever's in front of yours, right?
[1:04:56] Yeah, that's so we.
[1:04:57] We wouldn't. I wouldn't want to prove that at this point.
[1:05:00] OK. So if there if there is no, I just want to make sure I understand what you're saying and versus what I'm looking at and what's
[1:05:05] been submitted to us as an application form right now, which is this Red Square.
[1:05:11] Right. Uh.
[1:05:12] Right. If you wanted to be specific, you could just reference the 4714 address, OK.
[1:05:18] Yeah. So we would not want to rezone that front piece.
[1:05:20] Or change the law. Do a lot change on that.
[1:05:22] So we just want it on the back piece.
[1:05:24] OK.
[1:05:26] All right.
[1:05:27] Appreciate you clarifying that. Thank you.
[1:05:29] Commissioner Gong, another question. You had mentioned the Drake.
[1:05:32] Cleaners having a significant.
[1:05:34] Contamination impact.
[1:05:36] And so you'd rather not.
[1:05:38] Dig down.
[1:05:39] Can you can you talk a little bit more about that?
[1:05:41] Yeah. So we did a phase one and a Phase 2.
[1:05:44] Environmental report. So phase one, they just kind of come out and look at the property. They don't do much.
[1:05:48] Phase two, where that is where they actually drill holes.
[1:05:51] Figure out what's down there.
[1:05:52] The good news is the contamination is not real serious. It is contamination. Almost every dry cleaner is going to have some.
[1:05:58] I actually think.
[1:05:59] The dry cleaner did a pretty good job at making sure they didn't.
[1:06:02] Overdo it. So a lot of times what happens, they use those chemicals as weed control.
[1:06:06] So you have these chemicals that work really well to kill all the weeds, then use it, they spray it out there and.
[1:06:09] That would get into the soil.
[1:06:11] This was not happening here, at least as far as we can tell.
[1:06:13] So there's a little bit of contamination of soil. They're they're not really concerned about it.
[1:06:17] You wouldn't necessarily have to do anything. They don't recommend any big changes.
[1:06:21] Other than a vapor barrier.
[1:06:23] Above if you're going to have living quarters.
[1:06:25] So if we did all commercial, we actually probably would need to do anything.
[1:06:29] But the faculty be living orders here. They want a vapor barrier at the bottom level.
[1:06:32] Some.
[1:06:33] Some fans and ventilation relatively minor just to make sure those chemicals.
[1:06:38] Don't make it into living space. Looks like you have a partner that wishes to also make This is my This is a thanks Matthews, the
[1:06:41] engineer on that.
[1:06:45] You can maybe get more color on that.
[1:06:47] Yeah, so.
[1:06:49] As Josh said, we had to do both Phase one and Phase 2.
[1:06:52] Yeah. And the Phase 2 was?
[1:06:55] Was was a little bit more concerning than than we thought it would be because it had elevated levels above residential.
[1:07:01] Limits as well as commercial limits.
[1:07:04] And so that that's that's the reason why the vapor barrier is necessary there.
[1:07:08] As Josh says, if we start to excavate and try to remediate and remove that sort of contamination, it just gets really expensive to
[1:07:14] do. And so we've got to be careful how we approach that. But we work.
[1:07:20] We're working hand in hand with.
[1:07:21] With our consultants and then they will work in hand with the Utah Department of Environmental Quality.
[1:07:26] To make sure we handle it correctly.
[1:07:31] Thank you. Believe it not the gas station.
[1:07:33] Are they the?
[1:07:35] The transmission shop on the on the South end of that, that actually probably has the most contamination because it does. It used
[1:07:39] to be a gas station, which I wasn't aware of, so has underground tanks.
[1:07:45] That will require.
[1:07:46] More remediation, but only if we.
[1:07:47] Are able to acquire that property.
[1:07:51] Which is the one on the corner of Arbor and Holiday, correct?
[1:07:57] Other questions for the applicant at this time.
[1:08:00] One question.
[1:08:01] Commissioner, go ahead.
[1:08:04] Well, two questions.
[1:08:06] What happens?
[1:08:07] To your plan if you don't acquire those properties, that's my first question. My second question is.
[1:08:14] What happens to your plan if you don't get?
[1:08:16] The zoning change.
[1:08:19] So change the height change.
[1:08:22] So I think.
[1:08:23] If we don't acquire those front properties.
[1:08:25] We're still going to move forward with the property.
[1:08:27] It'll be very different. It won't have.
[1:08:29] Probably any commercial be my guess.
[1:08:31] I'm not sure that commercial works really well down below.
[1:08:35] We might try and.
[1:08:36] I mean.
[1:08:37] Maybe put some up?
[1:08:39] But the access Rd. if we didn't need 2 points of access? I mean kind of depending how.
[1:08:42] Lays out we haven't looked at very closely.
[1:08:44] But we just have a very little bit of frontage.
[1:08:46] On holiday.
[1:08:47] Blvd. up there so I'm not sure.
[1:08:49] If we could sneak something there.
[1:08:50] Other than that, we probably wouldn't have any commercial, probably looking at more just a residential town home type product if
[1:08:53] it's not approved.
[1:08:57] I think.
[1:08:58] If we are able to get a height variance, we probably do a little bit.
[1:09:02] Something a little bit more significant.
[1:09:05] My inclination.
[1:09:06] You know, this is not great negotiating on my behalf, but my inclination is to wait until we get it. Like I want to do this right.
[1:09:12] I really think.
[1:09:13] We are.
[1:09:14] Gonna work really hard.
[1:09:15] To to work with those owners in the front.
[1:09:17] They operate great businesses, by the way. They don't. All of them are wanting to continue to operate their businesses. Myers
[1:09:20] Chicken wants to continue to.
[1:09:23] Do their business, so we're actually looking at other sites and holiday for them.
[1:09:27] And looking to move them with with a fee to say hey, we'll pay you to move.
[1:09:31] Will build you something just as night.
[1:09:33] They all want to stay on holiday, which is great.
[1:09:35] So we're looking at other sites where they could potentially do that.
[1:09:38] So I I really work hard to make sure we get those.
[1:09:42] From parcels I hate to just.
[1:09:44] Do something in the back that doesn't.
[1:09:46] Doesn't complete the full picture of the vision I have for it, so.
[1:09:51] If have to wait a minute, we're going to, we're going to wait.
[1:09:53] Like I said with.
[1:09:54] Walgreens doesn't expire for three years.
[1:09:56] So this is.
[1:09:57] We're going to be working on this for a while. There's a chance they, you know, they leave early.
[1:10:00] They are closing. Walgreens is closing a lot of their stores right now all over the country.
[1:10:05] They were recently acquired by a private equity firm.
[1:10:08] And the process of disposing of a lot of their properties that.
[1:10:11] They're not profitable so.
[1:10:13] It's possible they leave early, but we're kind of planning on a three-year process.
[1:10:16] So hopefully we're able to work with the buyers and for the owners in front to acquire those and really create something
[1:10:19] beautiful, but.
[1:10:22] Ultimately, I mean, if none of that works, I think, you know, you look at a townhome product back there that's just kind of.
[1:10:27] Pretty standard holiday stuff that.
[1:10:30] Is OK.
[1:10:30] That's not going to do a lot for the city, that kind of.
[1:10:33] Makes me sad if you think about doing that so.
[1:10:35] That's not the vision I have, I hope.
[1:10:36] I hope we don't end up there, but that would be, I mean.
[1:10:39] It'd be a perfectly fine.
[1:10:40] Townhome community back in there.
[1:10:42] And if you get the height, if you get the properties but don't get the height change.
[1:10:47] I think.
[1:10:47] It just makes it.
[1:10:49] It makes it less. I mean, we're still gonna, it's not like we're gonna come in here. So we're not gonna do this deal. We're still
[1:10:52] gonna try and figure out a way to make it work.
[1:10:56] I think ultimately it just isn't as stunning and as big a landmark as I think it can be. I think this can truly be.
[1:11:03] The place that people look at in holidays of this.
[1:11:06] This is incredible. We wanted to have.
[1:11:08] We've actually engaged architects.
[1:11:11] From Seattle.
[1:11:12] To Washington, DC.
[1:11:14] People who have done projects like this in downtown areas, I mean, if you if you drive around Denver and some other areas.
[1:11:19] Their high end communities have.
[1:11:22] Really stunning.
[1:11:23] Centerpieces.
[1:11:24] And Utah just doesn't have one. I mean, the whole state, there's just nothing like there's, there's some kind of in Deer Valley
[1:11:27] West, if you kind of go up there, there's some.
[1:11:31] Pretty stunning places, but outside of Park City, Deer Valley we just haven't built.
[1:11:35] Something that is just stunning and beautiful and that's, that's what I want to do and that's why.
[1:11:40] That's not how I make the most money, I'll tell you that.
[1:11:43] Making something that stunning and beautiful doesn't make me the most money, but I do think.
[1:11:47] I do think that's what is.
[1:11:50] Legacy I'd love to leave.
[1:11:51] For the city so.
[1:11:53] Would love your input as we continue to design this because we are going to probably ask the design changes and slight amendments
[1:11:56] to that code.
[1:11:59] Because I think you know that the old one is a little bit antiquated. I.
[1:12:02] Done downtown holiday before and we've come for design changes. I think we've built as.
[1:12:06] More beautiful.
[1:12:08] So we'd love to kind of have your input as we continue to go down this, but we're looking at.
[1:12:11] You know, natural woods and a lot of greenery like living.
[1:12:15] Living walls and those types of things that are that they've been using in other places that are.
[1:12:20] Just add a lot to the.
[1:12:21] To the community, so.
[1:12:23] I I really.
[1:12:23] This is like labor of love. This is not.
[1:12:26] How I make the most money we do a lot of industrial development that makes a lot of money and it's.
[1:12:30] I'm pretty ugly.
[1:12:31] We build them in the middle of nowhere. Hope it's not. People have to see him.
[1:12:35] These are.
[1:12:36] This type of product I like to do just.
[1:12:38] Really add value to a community.
[1:12:40] Especially community other than.
[1:12:43] Commissioner Cunningham yeah, getting back to height, which is really the only issue on the table tonight.
[1:12:49] What I'm hearing, and I think you said it.
[1:12:52] Was a new Town Center.
[1:12:55] No, it would be.
[1:12:55] Part of the town and this is the Town Center, not a new Town Center. Park wouldn't.
[1:13:00] It's not going to be size compatible.
[1:13:03] I mean, I think if you.
[1:13:05] Compare it to like the actual heights from the street.
[1:13:08] Of everything else.
[1:13:09] It's pretty you're not going to see a big difference.
[1:13:11] From looking from Holiday Blvd. it's going to look pretty compatible to what's happening in the rest of the community.
[1:13:16] I'm sure the public will share their view of whether that's true or not, but I guess that's to me that's a very important issue
[1:13:20] that the.
[1:13:24] City spend a lot of time and effort.
[1:13:26] Scaling.
[1:13:28] Their center I'm not thinking they're looking for.
[1:13:31] Another one down the road that's bigger.
[1:13:34] Yeah. I mean, I don't see this as a different city center. This is part of the entire thing. And I think is is you continue to
[1:13:37] build.
[1:13:41] I mean, there's going to be.
[1:13:43] There's a lot of land.
[1:13:46] That goes between US and.
[1:13:48] And the rest of the city.
[1:13:49] I think.
[1:13:50] As we build this, others will follow our suit and make.
[1:13:53] And continue to.
[1:13:54] Make beautiful product.
[1:13:56] Right now it's.
[1:13:57] I mean it is tired.
[1:13:59] And it's.
[1:13:59] It's you have.
[1:14:01] Anti rays I mean it's like.
[1:14:04] This is a city of holiday.
[1:14:05] Downtown should be vibrant.
[1:14:07] And bustling and beautiful.
[1:14:09] And right now we have a lot of old buildings that are.
[1:14:11] Sitting there and I think.
[1:14:13] Allowing.
[1:14:14] Developers to.
[1:14:16] Get to 50 feet is not I mean.
[1:14:18] 35 feet is what you have in.
[1:14:20] Residential. I mean, my house is 35 feet.
[1:14:23] I know that because my neighbor got out there with a ruler.
[1:14:25] When I was out of construction and made sure, I think he called you a couple times. He made sure with 35, so I think we're 34 1/2.
[1:14:32] So going 15 feet above that in a downtown.
[1:14:36] Does not seem egregious to me.
[1:14:37] I mean, it seems within.
[1:14:38] With reason.
[1:14:42] What?
[1:14:45] Please.
[1:14:45] Save any comments for the public hearing.
[1:14:48] Thank you. I will. I will just say like if you compare it.
[1:14:51] The sugar house or and.
[1:14:53] Publicly, absolutely get a chance to speak and I appreciate the concern. I think we do want to be responsive to the public.
[1:14:58] But if you are looking at Sugar House and even Mill Creek.
[1:15:00] Yeah, that's that building right there, at least 7 feet.
[1:15:03] Your average or seven stories, I think, and you average.
[1:15:07] 12 feet a story, and that's 80.
[1:15:09] 90 feet, probably 80 feet, that building right there, so.
[1:15:11] That that is a tall building.
[1:15:13] But we're looking at.
[1:15:15] Considerably lower than that so.
[1:15:18] Any other questions for the applicant at this time?
[1:15:20] OK. We'll go ahead and have you. Hey, thank you very much. Thank you.
[1:15:23] All right. And before we take public hearing just.
[1:15:26] For my own edification by raise of hand, how many people were here for this item tonight? Please raise your hand. Looks like
[1:15:29] majority OK?
[1:15:33] So I'm gonna call for a quick recess.
[1:15:35] So that I can be totally fresh for this.
[1:15:38] And we will come back at 6:55.
[1:15:42] So.
[1:15:43] We'll take a quick break.
[1:15:45] And then we will open up for public comment.
[1:15:49] You can't do that.
[1:15:50] So there is.
[1:15:54] Opportunity for public to make comment on this tonight, and it looks like we do have a lot of public here to do so.
[1:16:01] I do want to just remind everyone.
[1:16:04] That this application.
[1:16:06] Is about height.
[1:16:08] And changing the height limit from 35 to 50.
[1:16:11] It has nothing to do with density. It has nothing to do with how it's going to look.
[1:16:16] How it's going to be built?
[1:16:18] What it's going to be like, why it's built, none of that is what's on the table for us tonight.
[1:16:23] This is for Planning Commission to review and make either a positive.
[1:16:28] Or negative recommendation to City Council, who will then make the ultimate decision on what happens next with this.
[1:16:35] So tonight is just about a positive or negative recommendation.
[1:16:39] And again, it is about the height.
[1:16:41] If you have already submitted public comment via e-mail.
[1:16:45] We received a dozen of those.
[1:16:47] And talked about them in our work meeting earlier. There is no reason for you to get up and make more comment on those tonight
[1:16:51] because we already have your comments.
[1:16:56] And I would like to remind everyone because there's a lot of people here.
[1:16:59] Please do not reiterate the same points that the person before you. I don't need to hear the exact same thing three times from
[1:17:04] three different people. You can literally get up, say.
[1:17:09] Ditto to that person.
[1:17:10] That's exactly what I wanted to say, and we got it and you're good.
[1:17:14] So in the interest of time, we would ask you to be.
[1:17:17] Considerate of that. And again we ask you.
[1:17:20] Don't ask us questions.
[1:17:21] Make your comment.
[1:17:23] Don't talk to the crowd.
[1:17:24] Don't talk to the applicant.
[1:17:25] Address the Commission, make your statement and sit down.
[1:17:29] And that's how we will proceed at this time again remind you.
[1:17:33] Into the microphone name and address when you get started so we know who you are where you live.
[1:17:38] And at this time, we will open up public comment for anyone who wishes to do so.
[1:17:48] Holly Richards, 2470 Kentucky Ave.
[1:17:52] And I want to thank you and I appreciate you for the service you do for our city and for allowing me to express my thoughts.
[1:17:59] I'm opposed to the text amendment to increase the building height of 50 feet for the Romney Group redevelopment project.
[1:18:06] And I agree with the points that were made in an e-mail you received from Steve ****.
[1:18:11] I have also been forwarded copies of Two Meal.
[1:18:14] Emails today that may not have made the deadline yesterday.
[1:18:18] Greg and Melissa Adcock at 2445 Kentucky Ave.
[1:18:22] Dennis and Melinda Robbins at 2480 Kentucky Ave.
[1:18:26] Both oppose this text amendment.
[1:18:29] And as you drive around Sugar House and Mill Creek areas.
[1:18:32] Where does your eye go?
[1:18:34] To the highest structure.
[1:18:36] The proposed increase in height would be inconsistent with the Holiday village buildings.
[1:18:42] Holiday city staff, Planning Commission and City Council have been able to maintain the height restrictions for 10 years.
[1:18:50] The message should be.
[1:18:52] Clear and reflect the character of Holiday.
[1:18:55] Build within the code.
[1:18:57] I ask you to deny this request for the text amendment.
[1:19:01] And let the established legacy of keeping holiday special.
[1:19:05] Continue. Thank you for your time and consideration.
[1:19:09] Thank you, Holly.
[1:19:18] Hi, my name is Robin Huff.
[1:19:20] I live at 2465 Kentucky Ave.
[1:19:23] I have lived in holidays.
[1:19:25] Since video.
[1:19:27] And I have watched this community develop and I cannot tell you how.
[1:19:31] Proud I am.
[1:19:33] Of what? The Planning Commission and the.
[1:19:36] People of holiday have developed here.
[1:19:38] And I listened to Mr. Romney talk about wanting to create something that was vibrant and bustling and stunning. Well, frankly, I
[1:19:44] think we already have that. I'm not sure we need to repeat that, I think.
[1:19:49] I am so proud of how holiday has developed.
[1:19:52] As I listened to Mr. Romney speak, I could not hear any.
[1:19:56] Compelling.
[1:19:58] Benefit to the residents of holiday.
[1:20:01] To change.
[1:20:02] This.
[1:20:03] Rule or this code?
[1:20:05] There was no reason you know the.
[1:20:07] Residents of Holly are going to be so much better off if we can just make this building even taller and taller.
[1:20:12] There's nothing there.
[1:20:14] It should be a benefit.
[1:20:16] To the residents of Holiday.
[1:20:18] If you're going to.
[1:20:19] To change the rules.
[1:20:23] Also, I suspect this is the nose of the camel.
[1:20:27] In the tent.
[1:20:28] Oh, let's just go to 50 feet. Well, you know.
[1:20:31] Maybe we could just go to 55 over here, 65 over there.
[1:20:36] The rules are in place because Holiday chose as a community.
[1:20:39] To create a plan that would create a walkable community.
[1:20:43] And none of us would feel like it was.
[1:20:45] Sugar.
[1:20:47] I think that there should be a compelling benefit.
[1:20:49] To the holiday residence if you're going to make such a change, not just a benefit to a developer.
[1:20:57] I love holiday.
[1:20:58] Thank you so much.
[1:20:59] Appreciate your time.
[1:21:01] Thank you, Robin.
[1:21:13] Hi Al Spencer, 4591 S Holly Lane.
[1:21:19] I have a few concerns.
[1:21:21] I was hearing the judgments of 1 developer about what?
[1:21:25] Should uh.
[1:21:26] Be for holiday.
[1:21:28] My question is.
[1:21:29] What does holiday need?
[1:21:33] Does that meet the needs?
[1:21:35] Of holiday.
[1:21:37] Does holiday need?
[1:21:39] Something higher.
[1:21:41] One of my concerns is.
[1:21:43] If it's higher.
[1:21:44] That allows for greater density.
[1:21:47] And I don't see that.
[1:21:50] Area.
[1:21:51] Being able to.
[1:21:53] Hold the traffic.
[1:21:56] And the infrastructure?
[1:21:58] For that many more people and businesses.
[1:22:01] That's one of my concerns.
[1:22:05] I'm also concerned.
[1:22:08] That.
[1:22:09] The point?
[1:22:11] Brought up by Mr. Cunningham about.
[1:22:13] Matching the rest of Holiday Village and keeping the center in the center.
[1:22:21] And I'm also concerned in general, so this doesn't speak to the height specifically.
[1:22:27] But.
[1:22:28] I'm seeing a lot of.
[1:22:30] High end housing.
[1:22:31] Holiday and a lot of families being priced out.
[1:22:34] So does such a high end.
[1:22:37] Project.
[1:22:39] The housing needs.
[1:22:40] Of holiday residents.
[1:22:43] And how does?
[1:22:44] Height impact that.
[1:22:47] Thank you.
[1:22:48] Thank you.
[1:22:56] My name is Clark Richards.
[1:22:58] I'm at 2470 Kentucky Ave.
[1:23:01] And I agree with everything that's been said.
[1:23:05] But I.
[1:23:06] Just going to shoot from the cuff. I I want to thank all of you for serving.
[1:23:12] It's important.
[1:23:13] To me that you have our back.
[1:23:15] As community.
[1:23:19] I'm opposed.
[1:23:21] To the height.
[1:23:23] Increase.
[1:23:24] I believe the project can be done.
[1:23:26] Without.
[1:23:27] Increase in heights.
[1:23:29] And it can be done. I have. If I could, if I could address the applicant, I'd say welcome to the neighborhood. I have no doubt
[1:23:32] he's going to do it.
[1:23:37] As you put.
[1:23:38] Of project, but I believe that the.
[1:23:45] The staff.
[1:23:46] Did a remarkable job with.
[1:23:48] Holiday Village Plant as it exists. There was a ton of work.
[1:23:51] Went into. I would.
[1:23:52] I was there for.
[1:23:54] For some of that and I and I then it was there's just a lot of debate and community input.
[1:23:59] And the numbers that were arrived at were.
[1:24:02] We're pretty specific and they're there for a reason. And I just, I just really think that.
[1:24:08] That our projects can.
[1:24:10] Going forward.
[1:24:12] Ought to stick to those.
[1:24:16] I'm worried.
[1:24:17] About uh.
[1:24:19] The people that come after you.
[1:24:22] If.
[1:24:23] If there's a high increase allowed.
[1:24:27] I'm worried that there'll be more.
[1:24:29] That other planning commissions that will come after you will allow more and more, so I believe that.
[1:24:36] The line needs to be.
[1:24:38] Kept where it is.
[1:24:40] And, umm.
[1:24:42] Just that.
[1:24:43] I have to.
[1:24:44] I spoke with a friend that was.
[1:24:47] In Cal that lives in California and next to.
[1:24:51] Uh.
[1:24:52] Earlier today and I just, I just asked him if he felt this would fly.
[1:24:57] In Carmel by the sea. And he said no.
[1:25:00] He said it would not at all.
[1:25:02] They would. They would, they would say.
[1:25:04] Build within code.
[1:25:05] And that's all I'm saying.
[1:25:07] Build code.
[1:25:08] Thank you very much for your time.
[1:25:10] Thank you.
[1:25:33] OK, I'm Shirley Chaffee on.
[1:25:36] 2523 Kedy did lane.
[1:25:38] And I just want to say.
[1:25:41] I have lived in.
[1:25:43] Holiday, as you see, I'm older than anybody here almost and so I.
[1:25:49] Have seen the changes and everything that's been happening. I've seen what happened at Sugar House. When I was growing up, we
[1:25:53] lived in Sugar House and look what happened to Sugar House.
[1:25:57] And they always say it's not about money.
[1:26:00] It's not about money, but it has to be about money. They want to keep tearing things down.
[1:26:04] Putting bigger things up, bigger things up.
[1:26:06] And I don't know why do you want just.
[1:26:08] Keep holiday.
[1:26:09] Holiday where we all live and we all love.
[1:26:14] Thank you, Shirley.
[1:26:22] Ren Sof. I live at 2325 E Arbor Lane.
[1:26:27] Which is right next door to the property, so I share a wall with them.
[1:26:32] I'm a big fan of this product.
[1:26:34] Project in words. I like the vision. I like the idea.
[1:26:38] Though I do think this conversation is unfair because we are speak, we're not speaking visually.
[1:26:43] So though we're talking about height, we actually don't know what it means and there is a dip in in the elevation, so the height.
[1:26:49] Might not matter to this project.
[1:26:52] But from from.
[1:26:54] Where I live perspective, it does.
[1:26:56] Potentially.
[1:26:57] But again, I don't know exactly where the height is being built.
[1:27:01] I I'm we, my family and I, we moved from New York 70 years ago.
[1:27:05] Got into the house.
[1:27:07] And.
[1:27:09] We lived in shadows for, you know, 12 years.
[1:27:12] Because of the height of Manhattan.
[1:27:14] The height, the building height in Manhattan and I don't want to live in.
[1:27:18] Shadows, but I'm not saying that I would because we don't know the visuals.
[1:27:24] I also.
[1:27:25] Believe that the brand of.
[1:27:28] Of Holiday does have a brand, and it's a quaint brand.
[1:27:33] But because of the dip in the elevation of the property.
[1:27:37] It might not infringe on the brand.
[1:27:39] So.
[1:27:40] I would ask.
[1:27:41] For for further conversation on the visual.
[1:27:47] Thank you.
[1:27:55] Anyone else?
[1:27:58] OK, you'll get a chance as soon as I close the public hearing.
[1:28:02] If nobody else has any public comment, that's actually what I'll do.
[1:28:06] And we'll allow you 5 minutes to.
[1:28:09] Touch on any points.
[1:28:12] Oh, I just closed the public hearing.
[1:28:14] That's OK. Yeah, I really appreciate the comments. Take them to heart.
[1:28:18] I I think it would be helpful to have some visuals so you have a better sense of.
[1:28:21] Of what that looks like, this is kind of visual application.
[1:28:24] So I think it might be helpful for us to come back with.
[1:28:27] Was something that did kind of outline and kind of show a little bit more sense of where that height would be.
[1:28:32] What it would look like and where on the property that would look like So, so you had a better understanding of how that stepped
[1:28:34] down.
[1:28:37] So we're happy.
[1:28:38] If you want to table that for the next.
[1:28:40] Planning Commission.
[1:28:41] Have me come in and present.
[1:28:42] Some sort of visual what that would look like. We're happy to do that as well.
[1:28:46] So or.
[1:28:48] Obviously follow your aggression on this.
[1:28:50] OK. Any other questions for the applicant?
[1:28:53] All right, we'll go ahead and have you sit down. Thank you.
[1:28:57] All right, Commissioners.
[1:28:58] So we've had.
[1:28:59] A lot of public comment.
[1:29:01] And e-mail and in person.
[1:29:06] And I just.
[1:29:10] For me I'm I'm struggling a little bit with the application.
[1:29:13] As it's been presented to us.
[1:29:16] It's been presented to us as a Red Square.
[1:29:19] Not with specific addresses.
[1:29:22] It's been presented without.
[1:29:24] Visual Support.
[1:29:26] The applicant says he can bring back visual support.
[1:29:29] And in the nicest way I can say this.
[1:29:32] We all knew we were coming here tonight for this.
[1:29:37] And.
[1:29:38] A large question mark on.
[1:29:40] If I keep hearing the word if, when we plan to.
[1:29:44] On these other properties that are included in this Red Square.
[1:29:48] That he's now saying I don't care if we.
[1:29:51] I don't want those.
[1:29:52] Properties included yet? I'll come back for those.
[1:29:55] And I think doing carve out.
[1:29:58] Zone text amendment.
[1:30:00] Feels just.
[1:30:02] Really strange and kind of.
[1:30:05] The opposite of what the Holiday village was originally created.
[1:30:09] Around right, like if you look at that map that we have.
[1:30:13] That shows the holiday village with the little square in the middle where the clock tower is and.
[1:30:19] Everything kind of, you know.
[1:30:20] Moves out and down from there.
[1:30:23] Like there's your Town Center.
[1:30:27] And.
[1:30:30] I'm not sure why it was relevant to bring up, but.
[1:30:34] To tell us that there is.
[1:30:36] Toxic soil that would be easier and cheaper to build over than remediate and remove for public safety feels like.
[1:30:44] 100% the wrong reason to increase height.
[1:30:49] From my perspective.
[1:30:51] And then also to tell us that we have this really great city that's nowhere like.
[1:30:57] You know anywhere else in Utah?
[1:31:00] But we don't have a crown jewel in it yet, and we need to build it because there's not one in Utah. It feels like talking out of
[1:31:04] both sides, so.
[1:31:08] I just there's, there's a lot I struggle with.
[1:31:11] But when I look at it specifically just from the height perspective.
[1:31:16] Again I.
[1:31:17] Don't understand?
[1:31:18] The the request where it's just.
[1:31:21] This large carve.
[1:31:23] Either including buildings that aren't the applicants or.
[1:31:27] Around buildings that aren't the applicants.
[1:31:30] And what does that look like, especially if I live?
[1:31:33] West of it.
[1:31:34] And I'm trying to see Mount Olympus. I mean, I'm hearing. I'll leave it to your discretion if you want to.
[1:31:40] Create step up heights will.
[1:31:42] That's not our job.
[1:31:44] Right. That's that's their job to bring us something to look at and say, OK, that makes sense, let's approve that.
[1:31:50] But I don't think it's our job to say well.
[1:31:52] What you're presented is.
[1:31:55] Very convoluted and.
[1:31:56] I I'm not here to be your design.
[1:31:59] Tech So I have a lot of.
[1:32:01] Problems right now with this application as it's been presented to us.
[1:32:05] And I'm not sure continuing it.
[1:32:08] Is going to change that.
[1:32:10] So that's just where my initial thoughts are when I look at this, and now I'll turn to my fellow commissioners to tell me why.
[1:32:16] I might be up in the night on that, but Commissioner Baron, we appreciate your leadership, but.
[1:32:21] Can you tell me?
[1:32:22] On this site it's got Arbor Lane and Holiday Blvd. Which one do you take the measure for the?
[1:32:27] Zero point.
[1:32:29] To measure building height.
[1:32:31] For the 4714 address, it would be from the Arbor.
[1:32:35] Lane side OK.
[1:32:36] Building heightened holidays measured from existing grades. So wherever you plunk down your postage stamp.
[1:32:42] The grades before you start is where your maximum grade is going to be measured from.
[1:32:47] But wasn't there.
[1:32:49] A measure that this would be measured off of the curb height or the.
[1:32:52] You know elevation from Holiday Blvd. right? And then it That height is then clarified by using the adjacent curb height.
[1:32:59] So in this case, we would be using Arbor Lane.
[1:33:02] For 30, well the reason I bring that up is if we did measure from hotlog day Blvd. you don't need the height addition.
[1:33:09] It's already built into the property as it descends West.
[1:33:13] The 18 feet.
[1:33:14] So your buildings.
[1:33:16] On the larger part of the property would be 53 feet.
[1:33:21] So you don't need the additional.
[1:33:24] You know, 35 at Holiday Blvd. and.
[1:33:26] 53 at.
[1:33:27] The West End.
[1:33:29] So anyway.
[1:33:30] That's just the point of clarification.
[1:33:33] I appreciate what the gentleman said.
[1:33:35] Maybe 2 of them.
[1:33:36] That this needs to have more visual.
[1:33:39] To me to.
[1:33:41] I don't think.
[1:33:42] This is something I can do.
[1:33:43] Per se without.
[1:33:45] Seeing the impacts or the.
[1:33:47] How they could mitigate some of the hype? Maybe there's a way to hide some of that so it doesn't.
[1:33:52] Have that same impact.
[1:33:54] Or if there is an impact at all.
[1:33:56] So I think architecture.
[1:33:58] And I don't want to put the applicant in a bind where he has to start designing buildings before his approval.
[1:34:04] But.
[1:34:05] I think it's important to understand.
[1:34:07] How that would look contextually?
[1:34:09] And I like.
[1:34:11] When a developer has aspirations for.
[1:34:14] Designing something that could.
[1:34:15] A statement and I think.
[1:34:18] This could easily be a gateway to the.
[1:34:20] To the holiday village.
[1:34:22] And to me, I don't see anything wrong with having another significant project.
[1:34:27] At this point.
[1:34:28] But.
[1:34:29] I agree with Dennis or.
[1:34:31] The chair? I don't think we're there yet.
[1:34:34] So I'm trying to get some.
[1:34:36] Direction maybe from staff on how we could proceed with this.
[1:34:40] If we deny this, that's another year and so.
[1:34:43] I don't necessarily want to do that, but.
[1:34:46] I'll wait till I hear from the rest of the Commission.
[1:34:49] If I may.
[1:34:51] Because you are.
[1:34:52] Provided with some elevator, some aerial view, some 2 dimensional aerial views. I mean there's some.
[1:34:58] Images in there of some conceptual buildings in the.
[1:35:02] And the applicants.
[1:35:03] Presentation.
[1:35:04] But a general cross section of what they potentially could be looking at may be helpful.
[1:35:11] I wouldn't get.
[1:35:13] Tremendously specific, but at least something that shows a view from Arbor Lane how that wood building would be stepped.
[1:35:19] According to what is currently proposed, at 35 feet, what the potential?
[1:35:24] Could be for the rest of the site.
[1:35:26] OK, that could be something that could be looked at.
[1:35:30] Or at least.
[1:35:31] As you consider.
[1:35:32] The amendment.
[1:35:33] At least clarify.
[1:35:35] The location of the amendment.
[1:35:37] OK, the one thing that staff is still concerned about is.
[1:35:41] It is a carve out. There are other properties.
[1:35:44] Just budding to the north, that would have the 35 feet.
[1:35:48] That if we were to consider this type of height.
[1:35:51] The cross section.
[1:35:53] Consideration.
[1:35:54] We should be looking at it across that whole West side of the street as well, but that's my point of view of that as as
[1:35:58] administrator of the code.
[1:36:04] Commissioner Gom thoughts.
[1:36:06] I thought it was smarter the applicant to include.
[1:36:11] Those sort of two-dimensional just.
[1:36:14] Conceptual drawings, because I quite liked them.
[1:36:17] I thought that.
[1:36:19] The sense of.
[1:36:22] You know, green space versus building was really nice. It didn't just feel like a block of density.
[1:36:27] But, you know, appropriate.
[1:36:29] Appropriate density in a downtown.
[1:36:33] And you know, having those interesting lanes and stuff. So, so I quite liked it. That was it. That was a good move. I think for
[1:36:36] me, this feels.
[1:36:40] Premature because we don't know what the status of those two additional.
[1:36:44] Properties at the front are going to be and so to give a blanket.
[1:36:49] Height changed to this whole thing.
[1:36:52] I gives me pause because it's not.
[1:36:55] Guaranteed that they would.
[1:36:57] Be part of this vision or.
[1:36:59] That what might happen there.
[1:37:02] Would be.
[1:37:04] You know would.
[1:37:06] Be nice and beautiful and stunning.
[1:37:08] And I know that there are other.
[1:37:10] You know codes that apply to the Holiday village zone but.
[1:37:14] I think.
[1:37:15] Approving the height change without.
[1:37:18] That in place.
[1:37:19] Does make me nervous. I do appreciate the three-dimensional chess that the applicant is trying to do, which is.
[1:37:25] Yeah, be able to.
[1:37:27] Be able to.
[1:37:29] You know, leverage what's allowed and prices so that.
[1:37:33] I think that makes it very hard.
[1:37:36] But as a commissioner, I don't think I want to approve this. At this point, I would be interested.
[1:37:41] Though.
[1:37:42] You know, at a.
[1:37:44] At a future point.
[1:37:45] With all of the property in place.
[1:37:48] If there's a.
[1:37:49] If there's a vision where it's compelling to say.
[1:37:52] Here's here's specific places in the property where.
[1:37:55] A step of height might make sense.
[1:37:57] This is what it looks like. This is how it can actually work.
[1:38:00] To me, I'd be open for that.
[1:38:02] But at this point just the the block.
[1:38:05] Allowance for this doesn't make sense. I also think that it is really important.
[1:38:10] This is part of the.
[1:38:11] This beautiful downtown that many people spoke about that that they.
[1:38:15] Really love and are proud of and I I agree I think.
[1:38:18] The city has developed this really beautifully and just have that sense of coherence.
[1:38:22] There are lots of really minute details that would feed into that.
[1:38:26] But I think height is one of them and so again I'm reluctant to.
[1:38:31] To change something that would make it feel less cohesive and feel like as you're walking from.
[1:38:36] City Hall and City Hall Park.
[1:38:38] All the way through to Arbor Lane or you know, Cottonwood or something.
[1:38:42] To have it feel like it somehow doesn't match and I think most people wouldn't notice it if something were built but.
[1:38:49] This is this is part of our job is to make sure that.
[1:38:52] Things feel coherent.
[1:38:54] And so I think that gives me pause as well.
[1:38:58] Commissioner Pullen.
[1:39:00] I agree that the.
[1:39:01] Two-dimensional rendition is very.
[1:39:04] Pretty.
[1:39:06] Certainly at some point in the future.
[1:39:09] Something.
[1:39:10] Needs to be on.
[1:39:12] That piece of property.
[1:39:15] It's a little bit presumptuous to be presenting a plan to us that includes the buildings in the front, given that the developer
[1:39:19] doesn't.
[1:39:22] Own those buildings at this point.
[1:39:26] I am really concerned.
[1:39:29] For the future.
[1:39:31] Of the village, if we approve this.
[1:39:34] Because 50 feet is 50 feet.
[1:39:37] And so we can say, well, look at the slope of this.
[1:39:43] Of this property and.
[1:39:45] It can be designed so that 50 feet doesn't.
[1:39:48] Seems so onerous.
[1:39:51] And it could be beautiful because the property slopes to the back and so forth.
[1:39:56] But 50 feet is still 50 feet, so if we approve this, and what's to say another developer isn't going to come along in 10 years and
[1:40:01] buy the property?
[1:40:06] That includes Crown Burger and.
[1:40:09] Wonderland and and that.
[1:40:11] Piece of property and just put a 50 foot building over there because now.
[1:40:16] You know, umm.
[1:40:18] He's gonna.
[1:40:19] Say, well, you approved 50 feet on that piece of property, so why can't I get a 50 foot?
[1:40:25] Variance, so I'm concerned about creep.
[1:40:28] And that I'm concerned about the village and the character of the village that everybody spoke so eloquently about.
[1:40:36] So.
[1:40:37] That that is my primary concern. I think this developer would put something beautiful on this property.
[1:40:44] But I am.
[1:40:46] Reluctant to approve a change that would allow for a 50 foot tall.
[1:40:51] Structure.
[1:40:53] Commissioner Trevany.
[1:40:57] You know, I don't know that I've got a whole lot to add to this because I think of.
[1:41:01] In pretty much an agreement with.
[1:41:03] Others around me.
[1:41:07] The one thing having to do?
[1:41:09] I mean, one of the things when we talked about the 50.
[1:41:11] Foot was that?
[1:41:13] That would allow them to have parking underneath.
[1:41:15] The buildings.
[1:41:17] At the ground level and actually.
[1:41:20] I think maybe I would suggest it.
[1:41:23] Maybe it would be better off?
[1:41:24] That.
[1:41:26] Buried underneath the ground and.
[1:41:28] And the ground level actually looks like what we're looking at here.
[1:41:33] And not this.
[1:41:34] Being the second level and.
[1:41:36] Then there would be parking under.
[1:41:38] At the first level.
[1:41:40] So to me I think that.
[1:41:44] I don't really have a whole lot more to add.
[1:41:46] This I guess is what I'm saying.
[1:41:47] Maybe I either take the suggestion we make to the public and just say Ditto and all right and move on.
[1:41:54] Particularly noted.
[1:41:55] Commissioner Cunningham.
[1:41:56] Just a couple of thoughts. 1 is that this is a very unusual situation.
[1:42:02] The city.
[1:42:04] Had this debate 10 years ago and made.
[1:42:06] Bunch of very.
[1:42:09] Important decisions to the city.
[1:42:11] To the point that they.
[1:42:12] Lowered the existing zone.
[1:42:14] For what they wanted.
[1:42:16] OK, they didn't raise it.
[1:42:17] They lowered it.
[1:42:19] OK. And that?
[1:42:22] And I think you have.
[1:42:24] Give some deference to that.
[1:42:25] Now we're not going to make the decision, we're just making a recommendation.
[1:42:30] This is the Council's job as the elected official and.
[1:42:34] Officials in the end.
[1:42:36] And they may have a different view than the Council 10 years ago.
[1:42:40] I don't know.
[1:42:41] You might get a chance to see if it gets on a City Council agenda.
[1:42:45] And that, but I I am inclined to give a lot of deference to.
[1:42:50] The planning that went into.
[1:42:52] This whole area, they made a decision.
[1:42:55] About what the height would be on this lot.
[1:42:58] OK.
[1:43:01] Put it on the map and.
[1:43:03] Put the crayon out.
[1:43:04] The cross hatches and everything else, and I think you have to give a lot of deference to that.
[1:43:09] I am concerned that.
[1:43:10] We build a Town Center and yeah, we can shift.
[1:43:13] Part of it.
[1:43:14] To an entrance way.
[1:43:16] I don't think you make the entrance way higher than the center.
[1:43:21] The other thought I've had and and.
[1:43:23] If we make a recommendation tonight.
[1:43:27] And that.
[1:43:29] And then the Council acts on it.
[1:43:31] The developers precluded, as I understand it for a year for asking for it again, if both of us to.
[1:43:38] Saying no to the height, is that correct?
[1:43:43] So Utah code.
[1:43:45] It has to be an identical.
[1:43:47] Kind of application. You can't bring the same application back.
[1:43:50] That was denied.
[1:43:52] For a year.
[1:43:54] So it was 51 feet.
[1:43:56] It could come back.
[1:43:57] OK, an idea. So I guess what I'm.
[1:44:01] Hinting at.
[1:44:02] For the developer to consider.
[1:44:04] Is whether you really want an answer from us tonight.
[1:44:09] Question.
[1:44:11] You can withdraw your application.
[1:44:17] Our attorney will tell us how that would happen.
[1:44:22] Jerry, you could just invite the applicant back up and if the.
[1:44:24] And wishes to do that. It resolves the application and allows the developer to bring it back with.
[1:44:29] At a future point.
[1:44:31] Without any penalties or anything like that.
[1:44:37] And I appreciate that.
[1:44:42] And I think for me it's just.
[1:44:44] When I invite applicants to.
[1:44:47] Rethink and bow out of those type of.
[1:44:50] Applications.
[1:44:52] It's done under maybe.
[1:44:54] They you know.
[1:44:57] Weren't aware or you know, over.
[1:44:59] Stepped or.
[1:45:02] Some part of the plan wasn't.
[1:45:03] You know, presented correctly. I don't know.
[1:45:07] In four months, six months, 8 months, if this comes back before this Commission.
[1:45:13] I or from what it sounds like.
[1:45:15] From about half of you are going to feel any differently.
[1:45:18] If we have pictures.
[1:45:20] Or anything else for it to be 50 feet high.
[1:45:24] You know what I mean?
[1:45:25] Like and he can present it at 49 if he wants to bring it back tomorrow.
[1:45:30] Right. So that's just.
[1:45:32] That's where my thought goes on it, because we did have.
[1:45:35] Quite a few members of the public come out tonight for this and I hate to make everyone relive that moment.
[1:45:41] For those reasons.
[1:45:42] Right.
[1:45:43] Now I don't.
[1:45:44] And per the applicant, he's got three years.
[1:45:47] So even if you can't bring back the same application for a year, he's still got two more years before he has to worry about doing
[1:45:50] anything with it.
[1:45:54] With the current lease that's on there.
[1:45:57] So that's that's the only reason why I'm kind of like kind of just.
[1:46:01] Make a decision to move on, but.
[1:46:04] I'll look to my fellow commissioners to nudge me in which direction you.
[1:46:08] Think is the the right direction to go here and then we can invite the applicant up.
[1:46:14] One other option that you would have is just to continue it without a date.
[1:46:20] And you don't have to.
[1:46:21] Allow it to be, but the applicant at that point could make amendments to it and have it come back.
[1:46:26] That's another option.
[1:46:28] And I, I tend, you know, I'm not telling you what to do. It's I defer to you, but.
[1:46:34] I don't necessarily think.
[1:46:40] I would tend to defer to an applicant if they're willing to.
[1:46:42] Withdrawn and make some changes.
[1:46:44] We're not here to penalize anybody. We're here to.
[1:46:47] Process applications and if.
[1:46:49] I would allow the applicant to.
[1:46:51] Make some changes if they would like to do that.
[1:46:53] I think that's probably a.
[1:46:54] From a public policy standpoint, probably.
[1:46:57] Not necessarily to waste your time.
[1:46:59] But to.
[1:47:00] Get a better product I guess and a better result.
[1:47:04] Maybe that's kind of how I would put that.
[1:47:06] And see, This is why Council gets paid the big bucks, because they're smarter than I am, right? So.
[1:47:13] And you know I.
[1:47:15] That makes sense to me.
[1:47:16] And I'm with that.
[1:47:17] And I'm certainly not trying to penalize and I.
[1:47:19] Appreciate that you do want to build something great in our community.
[1:47:23] Like I say, just.
[1:47:24] For what's presented. So that said, if you want to come up and withdraw.
[1:47:30] Because I don't.
[1:47:31] I think he's recommending he can withdraw or continue. Aren't they essentially the same thing?
[1:47:37] Well, withdraw means.
[1:47:38] You'd have to start over.
[1:47:39] Continue means I can amend.
[1:47:41] We would rather withdraw.
[1:47:43] The application and come back with some more visuals.
[1:47:47] And hopefully present something that would be amenable to.
[1:47:50] The Commission. OK.
[1:47:51] I support that, so thank you we'll we'll.
[1:47:55] Move that to the withdraw pile.
[1:47:57] And uh.
[1:47:59] Maybe a recommendation?
[1:48:01] Just from what this Planning Commission has seen in the past, a couple public meetings from neighbors.
[1:48:08] On what it is you're looking at in the future.
[1:48:10] Would maybe be helpful for any future plans that you bring before us.
[1:48:14] Because that definitely helps when you have public support.
[1:48:18] Already.
[1:48:18] Initiated, if that makes sense So.
[1:48:21] With that.
[1:48:22] We will move well.
[1:48:24] We'll give a quick.
[1:48:25] 2 minute break because I'm sure there's a lot of people that don't want to hang out for the rest of these so they can shuffle out
[1:48:28] here so.
[1:48:34] Just taking a quick pause.
[1:48:42] I agree.
[1:49:02] And one question I've forgotten, John, maybe you know this or Carrie.
[1:49:06] I'm just curious how many?
[1:49:08] Townhomes could actually be put.
[1:49:10] On that.
[1:49:11] Three acre lot.
[1:49:12] As it's currently zoned.
[1:49:18] The village maxes out at 24 units an acre.
[1:49:21] So they could potentially.
[1:49:23] Put in like.
[1:49:25] 75 units in there.
[1:49:28] And that was part of that was the other part of the moratorium study.
[1:49:32] Was density.
[1:49:33] Previously, when the when the village was conceived, there wasn't a density.
[1:49:37] Allowance if you could build it under the Max heights and you could park it.
[1:49:41] Didn't matter how many units were there.
[1:49:43] However, council at the time, in 2016, had a different opinion.
[1:49:47] When some.
[1:49:48] Buildings were eventually finished.
[1:49:51] And that was changed to a density cap of 24 units an acre.
[1:49:56] And then the current.
[1:49:57] Height allowances that you see now.
[1:50:00] Gotcha. So I mean it still could be quite a big project.
[1:50:05] It's it's the if not close to the second largest piece of ground.
[1:50:10] In the village.
[1:50:11] Right, the other being the the.
[1:50:13] Parcels that we assembled for the clock tower buildings.
[1:50:17] So even if he.
[1:50:18] Doesn't come back with density, it says it's a wash. I'll just go with what code says he could still put.
[1:50:24] 73 units in there if you can figure out how to park it.
[1:50:27] Yeah, OK.
[1:50:28] That's just what I was curious on. I didn't get to it before, but that's OK. He withdrew. I'm just curious for my own edification,
[1:50:32] so thank you for that.
[1:50:36] All right, so our two minutes is up and we will move on to item number 4, which is the arts and culture land use within the
[1:50:40] Holiday Village zone.
[1:50:45] And John, you're walking us through this one.
[1:50:51] Yes, thank you, Chair, this.
[1:50:53] Item tonight is.
[1:50:55] And basically.
[1:50:57] An introduction.
[1:50:58] To a new land, use that.
[1:51:01] Doesn't currently exist not only within the village, but it doesn't currently exist in the city.
[1:51:06] Of holiday as a land use.
[1:51:09] What's being proposed is to amend.
[1:51:11] There's Holiday Village.
[1:51:13] Ordinance which requires.
[1:51:16] Ground level spaces of retail of buildings to be retail only.
[1:51:21] That was a concept.
[1:51:22] To preserve.
[1:51:24] Commercial tax revenue.
[1:51:26] Of the village while the Cottonwood Mall was being developed, among other reasons.
[1:51:31] In order to.
[1:51:32] Sustained and.
[1:51:34] Attain the goals of the holiday village as a master planned.
[1:51:38] Village Community.
[1:51:40] Over the years, those retail spaces have looked to other types of accessory uses as popularity begins.
[1:51:48] To to take place within the village as a very active.
[1:51:51] And vibrant.
[1:51:53] Walkable community.
[1:51:54] As of all the notions that we just heard.
[1:51:57] Through public comment.
[1:52:00] Specifically the time.
[1:52:02] I think is appropriate for staff to propose in conjunction with.
[1:52:08] A couple of business owners.
[1:52:10] Some accessory uses.
[1:52:12] Mainly targeted.
[1:52:14] To this idea of introducing.
[1:52:17] Arts and culture.
[1:52:18] As a place making.
[1:52:19] Method.
[1:52:21] Within the holiday village.
[1:52:23] The purpose of this staff report is to introduce that idea.
[1:52:27] Nothing in here is intended to be.
[1:52:29] Permanent. This is intended to be more of a conversation.
[1:52:33] And a flowing.
[1:52:35] Our living document, so to speak.
[1:52:37] As the idea of an arts and culture land use as accessory to retail.
[1:52:42] Is developed through conversation with the Planning Commission and business owners and the community, obviously.
[1:52:48] Staff has provided.
[1:52:50] The Planning Commission sort of an outline as to what the village.
[1:52:53] Is intended to.
[1:52:55] Produce as a place.
[1:52:58] Idea for the community.
[1:53:00] As well as some nods.
[1:53:01] To our recently adopted general plan.
[1:53:04] Which talk about placemaking and arts and culture as.
[1:53:07] As a very high level.
[1:53:10] Element that the community has.
[1:53:13] Responded to when we went through the practice of.
[1:53:16] Retaining comments for a long range envisioning process.
[1:53:19] The idea of.
[1:53:20] Having.
[1:53:21] The arts and.
[1:53:23] Music being included in a lot of the elements within the parks, in our public spaces came up a lot and it was, it was included in
[1:53:27] a lot of the goals.
[1:53:34] And action plans of the the Holiday Master Plan.
[1:53:37] Which was adopted?
[1:53:38] Late last year.
[1:53:41] The staff is provided as you can see a small table.
[1:53:44] In your staff report, Which?
[1:53:47] Shows some land uses as far as intensity.
[1:53:51] I stole this from.
[1:53:54] Some arts and culture.
[1:53:56] Guides from other cities that they've used to create.
[1:54:00] These types of active.
[1:54:01] Vibrant uses as placemaking measures.
[1:54:04] In their cities.
[1:54:06] So this can be just looked at as an example. This isn't something that I'm proposing to be.
[1:54:12] Is set in stone, but.
[1:54:14] Down the left side you can see.
[1:54:16] As far as intensity of use.
[1:54:19] Moving to the right.
[1:54:20] How these?
[1:54:22] Different types of.
[1:54:23] Art galleries and.
[1:54:25] Artistic art studios can increase in.
[1:54:28] Intensity.
[1:54:29] As you look at maybe.
[1:54:31] Applying that type of land use to other zones like the C2 zone.
[1:54:36] Or the HCR zone.
[1:54:39] The idea of.
[1:54:41] Bringing in.
[1:54:42] More a higher level of.
[1:54:45] Attendance to recitals or.
[1:54:47] Art galleries, that type of thing can be considered that way.
[1:54:52] However, I mean that just just something to start the comment.
[1:54:56] So does.
[1:54:59] Like an art studio.
[1:55:02] Is that not a commercial?
[1:55:04] Like don't they sell art and art studios?
[1:55:07] Not necessarily people and some artists are just looking for a place to paint.
[1:55:11] So and if they want to display.
[1:55:14] What they're doing and.
[1:55:16] They can. It can definitely be done within that space.
[1:55:20] But that would not necessarily be.
[1:55:22] The would not constitute a primary retail use.
[1:55:26] That would not bring in.
[1:55:27] The the leases that were required to occupy.
[1:55:32] Some of the spaces in the.
[1:55:34] So if you had an example.
[1:55:37] A. If for example.
[1:55:42] Mint. That restaurant.
[1:55:44] Want to display art from an artist that is using the space above?
[1:55:49] That could be the accessory use.
[1:55:51] To the main primary use, which would be the restaurant.
[1:55:56] OK, so I mentioned that this is a.
[1:56:01] Cooperation sort of application.
[1:56:04] I have a property owner here who?
[1:56:07] Business owners who just moved into the village.
[1:56:10] Which has brought Steinway and Sons.
[1:56:14] Pianos to the village.
[1:56:16] Obviously there's a component that runs with that.
[1:56:19] That currently is not allowed as far as.
[1:56:23] A recital type situation.
[1:56:25] The village just does not have that type of allowance right now. You would define it as a reception or a gathering.
[1:56:32] And that type of land use was.
[1:56:36] Conceived of.
[1:56:37] As more of an intense use that draws a lot of traffic.
[1:56:41] But if it were something less intense like.
[1:56:44] Something that we could be considering tonight.
[1:56:47] It could be a.
[1:56:49] Both a boost to the community as far as.
[1:56:52] Creating some.
[1:56:54] After hours activity.
[1:56:56] Within the village and something that can.
[1:56:58] At the the primary tenant of that space can use as an accessory use.
[1:57:03] Not only to bolster their agreement.
[1:57:04] But to provide something different for.
[1:57:07] Different use for the village to create some.
[1:57:09] Really. Uh.
[1:57:10] Rich land uses that would be.
[1:57:13] Beneficial in the long.
[1:57:15] I love supporting the arts and the concept behind it.
[1:57:19] You did hit the nail on the head with the increased traffic density though, like.
[1:57:23] You talk about a recital at.
[1:57:26] 6:30 in the afternoon.
[1:57:28] You know, you have residents coming home trying to park.
[1:57:31] Where they normally do.
[1:57:32] And uh.
[1:57:33] Now they're competing for spaces and stoplights to get there, is that?
[1:57:39] I mean, how would you control or manage to?
[1:57:43] Make sure it doesn't.
[1:57:44] Yeah, so the idea when?
[1:57:46] What's not behind this chart?
[1:57:48] Are what does those intensity? What does intensity mean when you look at a recital at the low intensity range?
[1:57:55] And we can talk about that from at the top of my head you'll be looking at.
[1:57:59] Maximum count of 30 people within a space.
[1:58:03] That kind of traffic could possibly be absorbed in the village.
[1:58:06] At any given time, after hours with.
[1:58:09] On street parking or adjacent parking agreements.
[1:58:12] With other property owners.
[1:58:16] Interesting.
[1:58:19] Size is important.
[1:58:20] Yeah. So it'd be basically just.
[1:58:23] Managing it from a capacity standpoint.
[1:58:26] Yeah.
[1:58:29] OK, do we have a?
[1:58:31] An applicant here tonight to.
[1:58:33] To speak to this more or I'm sorry before we invite you up, did we have any other questions for city staff on this? My my primary
[1:58:37] concern was.
[1:58:41] Whatever the interfere with the.
[1:58:44] The tax generation of the retail part.
[1:58:47] If it supplements that or is.
[1:58:50] An extra for the community. I think that's great.
[1:58:54] If we end up.
[1:58:55] Taking a space that could have generated sales tags.
[1:58:58] And now doesn't generate sales tax.
[1:59:01] Yeah, I'd be more concerned.
[1:59:03] Right, because it's being proposed an accessory that the right the retail still needs to be maintained as the primary.
[1:59:09] Land use.
[1:59:10] With a tax number that's associated with that business license.
[1:59:16] We could also. You could also look at.
[1:59:20] Some of you might be familiar with floor area ratio.
[1:59:23] Calculations.
[1:59:24] With a given floor area of the gross retail space, A percentage can be used as this accessory use.
[1:59:31] And no more.
[1:59:33] That could be something that you could consider.
[1:59:35] A later date, but.
[1:59:37] No, I don't think that's something that would be tremendously.
[1:59:40] Bothersome or worrisome?
[1:59:41] About uh.
[1:59:42] Losing tax increment dollars I.
[1:59:44] I reviewed this concept with our city manager from that point of view.
[1:59:48] And I think she shares the same opinion that.
[1:59:52] What we're receiving as far as the retail activity.
[1:59:56] Is.
[1:59:57] Sustainable.
[1:59:59] Especially as Royal Holiday Hills comes online.
[2:00:03] More often, I think it's more important to maintain.
[2:00:05] Community identity as a place for a village rather than.
[2:00:08] Maintaining commercial tax revenue.
[2:00:12] What about the?
[2:00:14] Dwelling units.
[2:00:16] Multi family floor above like is there that component of like?
[2:00:21] I'm going to make the upstairs a couple apartments.
[2:00:25] Above my burger joint.
[2:00:27] I just used the those are just in there from that chart. I think the idea from that.
[2:00:32] Concept. I believe this was from.
[2:00:36] I want to say it was San Francisco, or maybe it was.
[2:00:38] I pulled a few.
[2:00:40] San Francisco, Chicago.
[2:00:46] Oh, this might be Denver, actually.
[2:00:49] Anyway.
[2:00:51] Having an art studio.
[2:00:53] That has a living space within it.
[2:00:55] It's something that they.
[2:00:56] Considered something as acceptable.
[2:00:59] That's not something that would be.
[2:01:00] OK.
[2:01:02] Want to avoid subletting my walk in closet as a roommate situation right?
[2:01:09] How much do you want for in case you need to send your code people? I mean today's rates. I could probably make a gram but.
[2:01:18] All right, great. Well with that, let's let's hear from the applicant on this. I'd like more perspective.
[2:01:27] We're excited to be here on holiday. I grew up on a holiday.
[2:01:31] Born and raised.
[2:01:32] So the fact that.
[2:01:33] And.
[2:01:34] Panel teacher been teaching panel for 2025 years.
[2:01:38] What's your name?
[2:01:39] Isaac Jackson, Sorry.
[2:01:40] The address of the building is 40.
[2:01:42] 644 S Auto Blvd. It's the old.
[2:01:47] Scott's building next door to the.
[2:01:50] Olympus Clinic.
[2:01:52] So it's a huge, immense pleasure to bring Steinway.
[2:01:57] This amazing brand and these amazing instruments to holiday.
[2:02:02] Where I grew up.
[2:02:03] Hot locally for.
[2:02:04] 2025 years.
[2:02:07] And.
[2:02:09] Really central to any sort of Steinway gallery is supporting.
[2:02:14] Local uh.
[2:02:16] Panel Teachers.
[2:02:17] And the students?
[2:02:19] So to give these students the opportunity to perform.
[2:02:22] Their piece that they've been working on for.
[2:02:25] A year or a?
[2:02:26] Two years.
[2:02:28] The opportunity they have to.
[2:02:29] Come and perform in amazing space.
[2:02:32] On this amazing panel.
[2:02:34] Probably arguably the best piano.
[2:02:36] Made in the World.
[2:02:38] Is.
[2:02:39] 2nd to none.
[2:02:40] I mean, I grew up.
[2:02:42] With the Steinway, so I was pretty lucky.
[2:02:45] But.
[2:02:46] A lot of kids don't have that opportunity in their own home.
[2:02:50] And so to provide that for them.
[2:02:52] Is a immense pleasure for us and to be able to support.
[2:02:55] Local teachers.
[2:02:57] And to bring in people to the city of Holiday.
[2:03:00] And to support.
[2:03:02] Someone like Auntie Ray who would.
[2:03:04] Then get hey, let's after the recital, let's go get.
[2:03:08] I dessert an anti raise or let's go get some Gelato or let's go.
[2:03:12] To mentor, let's go to Tony Burgers and get a get a shake.
[2:03:16] And part of.
[2:03:18] The tax question is that they would then.
[2:03:21] Be aware of it.
[2:03:22] Of.
[2:03:23] Steinway.
[2:03:24] And the pianos. And we're not.
[2:03:26] Then they can go oh.
[2:03:28] A lot of teachers are recommending that they.
[2:03:31] Purchase.
[2:03:32] A new piano because their piano. It just doesn't.
[2:03:35] Serve the student right.
[2:03:37] And so they can come in and say, OK, these pianos are great, let's buy a piano.
[2:03:42] And actually support.
[2:03:43] The teacher as well.
[2:03:45] In helping them.
[2:03:48] With that.
[2:03:49] And give them.
[2:03:50] A Commission.
[2:03:51] For helping me.
[2:03:54] Sell that piano so it does bolster that tax revenue.
[2:03:58] And then is there any other?
[2:04:00] Was there any other concerns you want to meet address?
[2:04:03] I'm just grateful that city of Holiday I love.
[2:04:05] How?
[2:04:06] I mean working with John and the mayor and.
[2:04:09] It's been so great and they've been so welcoming to have.
[2:04:12] To let us be there and.
[2:04:14] I think the building.
[2:04:15] Just screams.
[2:04:17] I'm so happy to be a Steinway gallery. Have you seen those? Those windows right there?
[2:04:23] Like being able to perform as a student.
[2:04:26] Right there with the backdrop of Mount Olympus at 6:30 with that.
[2:04:31] Golden Hour happening is.
[2:04:33] It's magic.
[2:04:35] So come by and see the building.
[2:04:36] It's pretty cool.
[2:04:38] What address was this again?
[2:04:39] 4644 S Holiday Blvd.
[2:04:44] I will.
[2:04:45] Yeah.
[2:04:47] Come by, play some Steinways.
[2:04:50] I won't do that. I'll play for you.
[2:04:54] And that might lead you to.
[2:04:56] Other questions for the applicant.
[2:04:59] How big would the?
[2:05:00] Performance.
[2:05:02] Area here.
[2:05:04] I mean, are you talking about?
[2:05:06] Room for 40 people.
[2:05:08] Roughly, so roughly these recitals are, if you've been to one, they are usually these teachers have a smaller studio.
[2:05:16] I had a studio of about 40 students. That's on the large end.
[2:05:20] But I would always. There's no way I'm forcing parents to sit through a 40 student website so.
[2:05:27] Typically you would you would divide those up into a more manageable group.
[2:05:32] And yeah, more like the 30 to 40.
[2:05:36] But also.
[2:05:37] That's.
[2:05:38] A carpool situation too. It's a lot of families coming.
[2:05:41] Together in the same vehicle.
[2:05:44] And we have.
[2:05:45] What's really amazing about this space, and like I said, it kind of screams to be a Steam gallery, is that there's some amazing
[2:05:49] locations for.
[2:05:54] Recitals.
[2:05:55] That main corner with the windows is incredible.
[2:05:58] And then there's a loft area that just.
[2:06:01] Has these glass wall and looks it's.
[2:06:04] It's great for recitals.
[2:06:05] And then downstairs in the basement.
[2:06:08] There's another.
[2:06:09] Open area, so we have.
[2:06:10] 900 teachers that are registered in the UMTA.
[2:06:15] Just here and those are just the ones that are registered.
[2:06:18] With the Utah Music Teachers Association.
[2:06:21] And I'm getting.
[2:06:22] 3 to 4 phone calls every day.
[2:06:24] When can we come and use the recital space? When are you going to be able to do that? Because we have no place to do it.
[2:06:30] And we certainly don't have a place that has as high caliber.
[2:06:34] And is amazing.
[2:06:35] As your place, they've come.
[2:06:37] And seeing it.
[2:06:38] And they're just.
[2:06:40] Chomping at the bit to be able to use the space.
[2:06:43] To what you're saying is they don't like the old Baldwin that City Hall has, but we want to help, actually.
[2:06:49] Bolster all of the arts and culture on holiday so if we can be of assistance.
[2:06:54] And provide a space.
[2:06:56] Or other music, theater, whatever. And the city of Audio wants to do. If there's like overflow that needs to happen, absolutely,
[2:07:01] I'd love to open my doors up to them.
[2:07:08] And we should certainly talk about getting rid of the Baldwin and putting Steinway in the city. I'll let you work that out with
[2:07:13] the mayor. I don't know what his budget is.
[2:07:21] All right, other questions for the applicant.
[2:07:24] All right, we'll have you sit down. Thank you.
[2:07:26] All right. And then this is a public hearing. However, we're going to continue this and keep the public hearing open, so there'll
[2:07:32] be more opportunities for the public to speak on this later. We didn't have any other applicants here, did we, John?
[2:07:38] Just one more.
[2:07:39] Oh, I apologize if the other applicant wants to come up and speak.
[2:07:43] Oh, sorry, no other.
[2:07:45] Oh, I meant was there another applicant associated with this?
[2:07:49] OK.
[2:07:50] In that case, we'll open the public hearing and if anyone was here tonight to speak on item number 4.
[2:07:56] The text amendment about the arts and culture.
[2:07:59] We'd love to hear from you now.
[2:08:06] Steve Peterson, 6147 S Vernesco.
[2:08:10] So we had two children that.
[2:08:13] Went to these recitals and.
[2:08:15] And studied on a Steinway.
[2:08:18] Ended up buying one from Skip Danes on State Street. This is replacing his.
[2:08:23] Franchise here on holiday. We're very excited to have the franchise here.
[2:08:27] And I can say from experience that.
[2:08:30] Those recitals generate sales tax to the city through.
[2:08:34] Bein Steinways and the Music and.
[2:08:37] And then it also brings a lot of traffic that would.
[2:08:40] Support the local businesses and so.
[2:08:42] For those reasons, I'm very supportive of what's.
[2:08:44] What they're proposing.
[2:08:46] Thanks, Steve.
[2:08:51] Any other public comment tonight?
[2:08:54] All right. And in which case I will make a motion to continue this.
[2:09:00] As city staff continues to work on the chart, make sure I don't call out weird things because it's just the sample as it says
[2:09:03] there.
[2:09:07] Do we have a second?
[2:09:09] Nice talking about Commissioner Baron.
[2:09:12] Both seconds. So with that, we'll call for a vote, Mr. Cunningham.
[2:09:15] Aye, Mr. Tribune.
[2:09:16] Aye, Mr. Faunt. Aye Mr. Gone aye.
[2:09:19] Mr. Barron, aye and Chair Roach votes aye, so that will continue.
[2:09:23] Thank you.
[2:09:24] Thank you.
[2:09:25] All right now.
[2:09:26] The next.
[2:09:28] Item on the agenda tonight.
[2:09:31] The Holiday Hills.
[2:09:32] Table of land jewels.
[2:09:37] I don't know if it's a summer thing, but I don't think I've ever had this many legislative items on one agenda for.
[2:09:44] Everybody is excited.
[2:09:45] Get some stuff.
[2:09:49] Item 5 tonight on your On your.
[2:09:51] Agenda is an application to the City to amend the Royal Holiday Hills Site Development Master Plan.
[2:09:58] Specifically the land use table.
[2:10:00] The land use table in the SDMP.
[2:10:04] Provides an array of land uses and businesses that can be.
[2:10:09] Operated.
[2:10:10] Within distance separate districts.
[2:10:12] Of the Royal Holiday Hills site, formerly known as Cottonwood.
[2:10:17] As the property owner has been applying for business licenses.
[2:10:21] It's come to.
[2:10:23] Frankly, both of our attentions.
[2:10:25] And property owner I believe's point of view that.
[2:10:29] There's some.
[2:10:31] Business types that have been omitted from this list.
[2:10:34] Specifically, personal services.
[2:10:37] Personal Services.
[2:10:38] Have a very distinct definition apart from retail or professional services.
[2:10:44] In that those are the services that are licensed through department of professional licensed provide services such as.
[2:10:51] Barbering, hair styling, Nails.
[2:10:53] Aestheticians.
[2:10:56] Tattooing.
[2:10:58] Massage.
[2:10:59] Therapy.
[2:11:00] That those types of.
[2:11:02] Personal Services.
[2:11:03] As opposed to professional would be more consulting services architectural.
[2:11:07] Law, banking, that type of thing.
[2:11:11] So the application note is to add.
[2:11:15] Professionals or personal services.
[2:11:19] In as a component to.
[2:11:21] What's listed as the retail building?
[2:11:24] So in your packet there is an image of the the amendment that has at the very bottom in red.
[2:11:31] Some 3 asterisks that say in conjunction with a retail building.
[2:11:36] So give you an idea.
[2:11:39] Well, I'll let you ask the applicant.
[2:11:41] Where this application is taking place, but staff really doesn't have an issue with what's being proposed and.
[2:11:47] Believes it can be an excellent.
[2:11:49] Components to what's being built currently at Royal Holiday Hills.
[2:11:54] Makes sense?
[2:11:55] The question I have before we have the applicant come up.
[2:11:58] Are there any?
[2:12:01] Personal Services.
[2:12:03] That would be prohibited.
[2:12:05] By city code or?
[2:12:07] You know something that might be.
[2:12:10] More on the negative side.
[2:12:12] Of personal services.
[2:12:14] We yes.
[2:12:16] Generally, when we look at.
[2:12:18] Personal services, we look at them.
[2:12:20] Very specific.
[2:12:21] In their application because they do include quite a bit of services that.
[2:12:26] Unfortunately, historically have had issues that are.
[2:12:31] Associated with.
[2:12:31] So we've brought this up with the property owners.
[2:12:36] I think they can address their point of view as how they would.
[2:12:39] Come about that situation.
[2:12:42] And deal with it.
[2:12:43] But.
[2:12:44] If an application were to come to us for a massage therapy situation.
[2:12:49] At this site, we couldn't deny it.
[2:12:52] And unfortunately.
[2:12:53] I don't want to single out at the specific.
[2:12:57] Retailers, service, those were most of our.
[2:13:00] Police issues derive.
[2:13:03] But I believe the property owner had can address that for you.
[2:13:08] I'm just like thinking, you know?
[2:13:10] Madam Zorbas like.
[2:13:12] I don't know.
[2:13:13] Like there's a lot of places I could go with personal services where it's like.
[2:13:18] Business, but OK, we'll hear from the applicant.
[2:13:32] Yes, you mentioned.
[2:13:35] Steve Peterson, 6147 S Fernesco.
[2:13:39] Good evening, Commissioners.
[2:13:42] Yeah, so.
[2:13:44] In the code 1304.
[2:13:46] 040.
[2:13:48] Defines personal services.
[2:13:50] In the city.
[2:13:51] And it does.
[2:13:53] Exclude.
[2:13:55] Tattoos and sexually oriented businesses, so those are excluded.
[2:14:00] But what it does allow for is nail salons, hair salons days.
[2:14:04] Spas massage therapy.
[2:14:08] We're asking for just clarification in the SDMP that there's a.
[2:14:11] Asterisk down the bottom that it's.
[2:14:13] Included in.
[2:14:15] Retail use.
[2:14:17] And our.
[2:14:19] Point there is that.
[2:14:22] The SDMP was.
[2:14:24] Approved in 2007.
[2:14:27] The city code was.
[2:14:29] Rewritten in 2012.
[2:14:31] And in 2012 is when they.
[2:14:35] There was more definition.
[2:14:37] And they provided personal services within that so.
[2:14:42] Basically, we're grandfathered in already, but we just wanted it to be a.
[2:14:45] Clarified that.
[2:14:48] At our site that.
[2:14:50] Personal services are allowed.
[2:14:53] And then?
[2:14:55] With that, if we were to look at the STMP.
[2:14:58] The state of objectives is to create an active pedestrian oriented Main Street environment featuring shops.
[2:15:06] Restaurants gathering places.
[2:15:09] In customer serving commercial uses.
[2:15:13] And so.
[2:15:14] The fact is that a high quality nail salon.
[2:15:17] Arguably fulfills the SDMT.
[2:15:19] Goals of creating the active pedestrian oriented commercial environments with.
[2:15:26] More so than most.
[2:15:28] Typical retail uses woods so.
[2:15:31] We're just asking for that asterisk be provided in there to clarify that.
[2:15:36] And be consistent with what was.
[2:15:38] Intended in the original SDMP.
[2:15:43] Questions for the applicant.
[2:15:46] All right, we're going to sit down. Thank you. Thank you.
[2:15:50] All right. And this is also a public hearing.
[2:15:53] So same rules apply, but if anyone was.
[2:15:55] Patiently waiting this entire evening to make a public comment on this. Now is your time.
[2:16:01] And you are welcome to come up.
[2:16:04] Once. Twice.
[2:16:06] All right, I guess nobody was waiting for this one, so we'll go ahead and close the public hearing.
[2:16:12] And I apologize for being that guy. I just feel like sometimes I'm sure the city already.
[2:16:17] Thinks about all these things, but sometimes I feel like I just have to be that gate caper.
[2:16:20] Gatekeeper that says what if?
[2:16:23] And so that's where my question about what type of businesses personal services.
[2:16:28] Can get in there.
[2:16:29] So is there anything?
[2:16:31] If this is updated.
[2:16:34] Umm, to.
[2:16:36] What's proposed for the text amendment? Is there any safeguards aside from the sexually oriented and tattoo parlor side of it?
[2:16:44] That would prevent.
[2:16:45] Other.
[2:16:46] More risque businesses.
[2:16:50] Only the.
[2:16:51] The property owner would not include.
[2:16:54] That is at least in a lease agreement, they just would not lease to them.
[2:16:58] So that's your own. That's your only safeguard.
[2:17:00] So it's the honor code of whoever owns the building and is leasing it out.
[2:17:04] Which definitely.
[2:17:06] Could and will change over.
[2:17:07] A long enough period of time.
[2:17:09] Yes. Not that I don't want you to live forever, Steve.
[2:17:12] But.
[2:17:14] All right, Commissioners.
[2:17:17] Questions. Thoughts.
[2:17:19] Just to clarify that, so there's a lease agreement, there's also a business license and that comes through the city.
[2:17:25] Correct.
[2:17:26] And that. But that just means that besides those excluded uses, anything else would get a.
[2:17:32] Business License.
[2:17:34] Anything that would be listed there, yeah, as an end of the definition, would get a business license.
[2:17:41] So as I understand that the current city ordinance is where the bar on the massage therapy is.
[2:17:48] Or in taps. Excuse me.
[2:17:51] On Tampines and the Current.
[2:18:03] Steve, if you're going to go that far, I'm gonna need you to come back up just for the city recorder. Sorry.
[2:18:10] Yeah.
[2:18:13] In the city code in 13 debt.
[2:18:16] .04 dot.
[2:18:17] 040 It defines personal services.
[2:18:22] And in there.
[2:18:24] Personal services are like.
[2:18:26] Apparel such as beauty.
[2:18:28] Barber shops tanning.
[2:18:30] Massage therapy.
[2:18:33] Permanent cosmetics day spa but excludes.
[2:18:36] Body art, tattoos and sexually oriented business. Very specific.
[2:18:41] And prior to that?
[2:18:44] Zoning ordinance being in.
[2:18:46] Incorporated it into the city code in 2012.
[2:18:51] It was just that there's retail and then there's these personal services were allowed. So once that was defined and.
[2:18:57] Clarified.
[2:19:00] And more specific and it also eliminates certain businesses.
[2:19:06] Our entitlements then include that.
[2:19:10] Additional definition of what's allowed and what's not allowed so.
[2:19:13] We're totally supportive of.
[2:19:15] Including that definition.
[2:19:17] Disallowing uh.
[2:19:18] Certain businesses that we obviously wouldn't want in our community.
[2:19:22] But allowing the business, I guess that's the point I wanted to make I.
[2:19:26] I don't know what.
[2:19:27] The reluctance is to have.
[2:19:29] Tattoo partners in holiday.
[2:19:33] They generate revenue.
[2:19:35] It's not. They support families. It does, but it's not allowing the code.
[2:19:38] That's the problem. I agree, and I'm not arguing. I agree. That's why I wanted to know whether this was your decision.
[2:19:45] Or the cities? No, it's the cities. It's code within the city In 2012 was established.
[2:19:51] And I yeah, I don't.
[2:19:53] Take a.
[2:19:54] Moral position one way or other on any of these businesses.
[2:19:58] But I just abide by what our community has established and I'm.
[2:20:01] According with that, and I agree, I just.
[2:20:04] You know, I guess.
[2:20:05] Since it was on the table, it's been on the table with a previous issue on that and I.
[2:20:10] Think holiday needs to move into modern era?
[2:20:13] Not have a moral judgment about tattoos. Yeah, and I'm not.
[2:20:17] I'm not. Yeah. And I, I'm not blaming you, and you certainly have the right to do that. I'm just, I'm just abiding by what?
[2:20:24] The city is is on the books and that's all we're saying is we just want an asterisk clarifying that that's.
[2:20:30] We support that and that's part of our entitlement, yeah.
[2:20:34] Thank you.
[2:20:35] Maybe former city councillor had a run in with a biker gang of Hells Angels giving tattoos, I don't know, but I can imagine all
[2:20:40] the doomsday scenarios if you want me more senior girls at at the local high school.
[2:20:47] If I may just make a comment from the city's point of view.
[2:20:50] On that, Carrie has brought up the definitions and luckily.
[2:20:54] The definition of permanent cosmetics is really close by.
[2:20:58] They took out the.
[2:21:00] From tattooing.
[2:21:02] Of his personal service and created a new definition.
[2:21:04] Because the art of tattooing has been expanded to include many different things.
[2:21:09] Especially when you're talking about permanent cosmetics.
[2:21:13] That was where.
[2:21:14] We needed to.
[2:21:14] Include that as a different type of use, and that's certainly within the scope of this city council's authority to make those
[2:21:19] decisions. And they haven't, yeah.
[2:21:25] But like check cashing places, payday loan centers, those sort of things are still excluded by code even.
[2:21:31] If they're considered a personal service.
[2:21:33] Those are defined as professional services. Oh, OK, yeah.
[2:21:37] And the city already has an ordinance around those.
[2:21:39] Right, OK.
[2:21:40] Those were just the types of things that came into my mind, so I appreciate it. Sorry.
[2:21:45] Keep us here so much longer. Like I said, just like to.
[2:21:48] Due diligence.
[2:21:50] All right, Commissioners, any other?
[2:21:52] Discussion or thoughts? Are we ready to make a motion?
[2:21:59] Actually spent I can see it.
[2:22:04] Oh no, I don't have anything constructive or helpful.
[2:22:07] Say about this.
[2:22:09] All right. Well then, this is Chair Roach.
[2:22:12] I'll move to recommend approval of an application by Steve Peterson to amend the land use table on Page 3 of the Site Development
[2:22:16] Master Plan 2007.
[2:22:20] By providing the new business type.
[2:22:23] Personal services with a retail.
[2:22:25] Retail building, excuse me, based on the findings.
[2:22:29] 1-2 and three is listed in the packet.
[2:22:32] I'll second that.
[2:22:33] Commissioner Behrens seconds will call for a vote.
[2:22:35] Commissioner Cunningham.
[2:22:37] Aye, Commissioner Tiffany.
[2:22:38] Aye, Mr. Font, aye, Commissioner, gone.
[2:22:42] Yes, hi, that's an I and Commissioner Baron.
[2:22:46] All right, and Chair Roach votes aye so.
[2:22:49] All right, we'll see what happens.
[2:22:53] And with that we have.
[2:22:58] A great deal of gratitude.
[2:23:00] To extend to Commissioner Fullent.
[2:23:03] On hanging out with us.
[2:23:05] For three hours almost.
[2:23:09] And all her service over the years.
[2:23:11] Of being a commissioner. And thank you very much. And I believe John has something for you as well.
[2:23:22] It's it's candy. How did you know?
[2:23:25] This card that's been signed. Thank you.
[2:23:29] This is.
[2:23:32] There used to be a local artist.
[2:23:34] Who used to do these laser edges? Oh yeah.
[2:23:37] So we have this.
[2:23:41] What?
[2:23:43] That's cool.
[2:23:44] I know I'm gonna quit, just like you want to know.
[2:23:47] I think I've seen those at 4 lemons actually. Beautiful.
[2:23:52] That's cool. It's really been a pleasure working with all of you. It's really been great.
[2:23:58] I'm glad to know all of you.
[2:24:00] Thank you very much.
[2:24:01] Thank you for your service.
[2:24:03] Thank you.
[2:24:08] All right. And that takes us to the conclusion of our meeting. Thank you all to.
[2:24:14] Participate city staff, as always, you're great.
[2:24:17] I will make a motion to adjourn. All in favor. Aye aye. Anybody want to stay longer?