1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,080 from line and members of the public who 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,040 are here, just so you're aware that that 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:06,800 we're going to do some training on 4 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,280 property tax in general so that you 5 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,360 understand how property taxes in Utah 6 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:12,600 work. 7 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,080 Um and then we'll talk about truth in 8 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:20,120 taxation and what truth in taxation is a really transparent process that our 9 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:21,960 local governments, regardless if it's 10 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:24,360 county, city, school district, special 11 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,440 district, they need to go through this 12 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,520 process if they want to increase 13 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,120 property tax revenue over what they 14 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:33,680 received uh last year. And that's always 15 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,760 the baseline is what they received last 16 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:36,680 year. 17 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:38,640 If they want more than that, they need 18 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,320 to go through a process called truth in 19 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,760 taxation. Actually, uh this training 20 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:45,960 this evening is one of the recommended 21 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,800 practices that you'll see in the 22 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,440 training that we recommend that in May 23 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:52,360 you have this kind of a town hall 24 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,200 meeting. And then I also want to uh 25 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,480 congratulate the city. When we walked 26 00:00:57,480 --> 00:00:59,560 in, we saw your property tax impact 27 00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:01,920 schedule that you have copies of it 28 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,559 here. Uh this is a new requirement to 29 00:01:04,559 --> 00:01:07,600 have that schedule available in May and 30 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,360 at the meetings where you discuss the 31 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,560 budget. And so congratulations. Um we 32 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,600 just learned from the tax commission 33 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,840 last Thursday when I presented with them 34 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,480 that they want copies of it, physical 35 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,840 copies at the meetings. And so you were 36 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,600 ahead of that curve. We tried to get 37 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,600 that information out to all of our 38 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,600 cities and towns as soon as we heard the 39 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,960 tax commission answer the question that 40 00:01:30,960 --> 00:01:33,600 way. So without further ado, I'm going 41 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,920 to jump into the the training. Um so and 42 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,560 some of you I know have seen it and 43 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,480 hopefully repetition helps. Um I will 44 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,600 give the acknowledgement right now. This 45 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,280 is a very horrible slide deck. It breaks 46 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,120 every slide deck rule. It has a lot of 47 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,640 words on slides and that's because this 48 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,120 process is so detailed. We wanted to 49 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:56,480 make sure that that had the information 50 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,840 they need as we use it for a training 51 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,800 guide for our local officials as they go 52 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:02,840 through the process. 53 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:04,920 So, let's start out just by talking 54 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,840 about Scofield and Salt Lake City. 55 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,960 Pretty different communities, right? 56 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,920 When you look at their budgets, their 57 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:13,880 budgets are very different. When you 58 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,320 look at their population, population's 59 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,160 very different. Hopefully you sit 60 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,320 somewhere in between those two extremes, 61 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:23,160 right? From population of 25 up to 62 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,800 217,000. 63 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,920 You can see uh the total amount that 64 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:30,520 they bring in in property tax revenue, 65 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,800 and you can see how how dependent they 66 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,480 are within their general fund uh on 67 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,480 property taxes. Salt Lake City is a 68 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,520 little bit more dependent than than 69 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,920 um Scofield, but Scofield is about the 70 00:02:43,920 --> 00:02:46,280 average. Our cities and towns across the 71 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,680 state of Utah are about 14% dependent on 72 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:51,400 property tax. Do you know what your 73 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,240 dependency is on property tax here in 74 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,680 Heber by chance? Okay. I should have run 75 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,959 that number for you, but I didn't. 76 00:02:57,959 --> 00:02:59,800 As different as these two communities 77 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,560 are, there's one thing they have in 78 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:02,720 common. 79 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,200 It's called truth in taxation. So, 80 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,959 regardless of the size of the community, 81 00:03:07,959 --> 00:03:09,640 everybody has to go through the same 82 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:11,680 process, the process that we're going to 83 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,120 talk about this evening. There is one 84 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,800 very small carve out. For communities 85 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,760 that do not have a website, you have a 86 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:20,920 website, correct? So, we're not going to 87 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:22,840 talk about the carve out because it's 88 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,800 only for communities that don't have a 89 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:26,840 website, and that's some of our very 90 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:28,880 smallest. Scofield, by the way, has a 91 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,880 website, so it doesn't even apply to 92 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,920 them, the carve out. 93 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:34,920 So, first thing to remember about 94 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,000 property taxes in Utah is they are 95 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,680 revenue driven. The rates you might be 96 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,480 familiar with property taxes in other 97 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:44,160 states, it works differently in Utah. 98 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,480 It's revenue driven. The rate is 99 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,600 calculated based on the amount of 100 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,200 revenue that the government receives. 101 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:55,880 And valuation increases uh and decreases 102 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,880 do not result in higher taxes. 103 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:00,520 Does anyone want to argue that point 104 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,640 with me? I usually have somebody who 105 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,240 wants to. 106 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,520 Okay? It might in other places. A 107 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,640 valuation increase might mean you pay 108 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,480 higher taxes in other places. It does 109 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,519 not in Utah. But, valuation increases 110 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:19,600 and decreases can shift the tax burden. 111 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:20,959 And we're going to talk about that 112 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:23,880 tonight. So, if your valuation goes up, 113 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,960 council member, and mayor's yours goes 114 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,840 down, the city will get the same amount 115 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:31,080 of revenue, but council member, you will 116 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,280 pay a bigger piece of that pie. And the 117 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:34,960 mayor would pay a smaller piece of that 118 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,919 pie based on those valuation changes. 119 00:04:37,919 --> 00:04:39,640 So, the government didn't raise the 120 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:45,640 taxes, but the valuation changes caused a burden shift. [snorts] 121 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:47,640 Does that make sense? And that's how 122 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,840 taxes work in Utah. 123 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:52,440 So, the reason that's important is 124 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,160 because if you have a large taxpayer or 125 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,040 a commercial property taxpayer, and they 126 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,320 might protest their value, and their 127 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,919 value goes down, guess what? Everybody 128 00:05:03,919 --> 00:05:06,680 else pays a little bit more because 129 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,040 their valuation went down because it 130 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,240 works the same between homeowners as it 131 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:13,120 works between different classifications 132 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,080 of property. 133 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,080 So, the other thing to remember about 134 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,480 property tax in Utah is the way the 135 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,720 system works, there's a natural downward 136 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,840 bias. And that's because by design, 137 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,800 inflation is removed from the 138 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,320 rate-setting process. Government does 139 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,040 not get an automatic bump every year to 140 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:35,720 make up for inflation. So, the city has 141 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,040 inflationary pressure, just like we have 142 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,040 as as community citizens and residents 143 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,080 in the community. When inflation goes 144 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:45,720 up, we have to figure out how to pay for 145 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,400 it. The same is true for the city, but 146 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,280 their property tax does not adjust. Some 147 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:54,400 of their own taxes do adjust. Sales tax, 148 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,840 when it when people are buying more, 149 00:05:56,840 --> 00:05:59,200 they may get more money in sales tax. 150 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,720 But property tax, the way the set the 151 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,360 rate-setting process works, inflation is 152 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:08,040 completely removed from the calculation. 153 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,520 So, the city does not receive more 154 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,800 property tax revenue just because of 155 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:14,880 inflation. 156 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,280 However, primary residential properties 157 00:06:17,280 --> 00:06:20,960 do not pay based on 100% of value. They 158 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,080 are the only properties that don't pay 159 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,480 based on 100% of value. Every other 160 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,960 classification of property pays based on 161 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,440 100% of their market value. Primary 162 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:36,160 residences get a 45% break, and then the 163 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,880 rate is applied to 55% of the value of 164 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,480 the primary residence. 165 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,800 This used to say "None of these facts 166 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,200 are likely to change." It now says 167 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,200 "Most." And that's because during the 168 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,360 last legislative session, the 169 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,520 legislature actually discussed 170 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,600 increasing that primary residential tax 171 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,600 break. 172 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,960 They They ultimately did not pass the 173 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:02,200 bill, but we expect it to come back next 174 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:05,000 year. We think there's pressure to get a 175 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:06,840 higher break for our residential 176 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:09,120 properties. And part of that is because 177 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,320 if you look at the data across the state 178 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,960 of Utah, the the burden has been 179 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,160 shifting. It's been shifting away from 180 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,880 commercial and other properties to 181 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:20,960 residential properties. 182 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,000 Um and so, as that happens, the part of 183 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:25,960 the response that the legislature is 184 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,560 thinking to help homeowners is to 185 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,080 increase the amount that doesn't get 186 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,040 taxed for homeowners, and then that 187 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,680 would shift some of that burden back to 188 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,520 other types of properties within the 189 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,430 community. 190 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,240 One of the things that we challenge 191 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,920 local officials is to work to understand 192 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,120 this process because you need to be 193 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,320 able, as you know, to explain it to the 194 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,640 residents in your community, especially 195 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:52,760 when you're going through truth and 196 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,200 taxation. And so, I'm glad that I'm here 197 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,120 tonight to be able to help you with part 198 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,000 of that process. 199 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,800 And then, finally, I like to always end 200 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,920 with noting that despite all of these 201 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,040 challenges of property tax, it still is 202 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,080 the most stable source of revenue for 203 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:14,520 our cities and towns. It is the one tax 204 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,320 There isn't inflation built into it, but 205 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:19,440 deflation doesn't mean that they get 206 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,480 less money. So, when values fall, rates 207 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,040 go up so that they get the same amount 208 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,160 of money. And especially when you're 209 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:29,320 talking about things like public safety, 210 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,480 and I saw on your property tax impact 211 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:33,560 schedule that the reason you're going 212 00:08:33,560 --> 00:08:35,560 through truth and taxation is to help 213 00:08:35,560 --> 00:08:37,120 with the public safety bill that you 214 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:40,080 have, especially with those kinds of 215 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,120 expenses, you cannot pull back on those 216 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,800 just because the economy might have 217 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,040 sputtered. 218 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,360 Um In fact, often times, during an 219 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,160 economic sputter is when you want to 220 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,520 keep your your public safety uh services 221 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,800 kind of solid. And so, that's why, as I 222 00:08:57,800 --> 00:08:59,360 work with cities and towns across the 223 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,280 state of Utah, I like to help elected 224 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,480 officials start to close the gap between 225 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,120 public safety expenditures and property 226 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:12,160 tax revenue. If we look back to 2006, 227 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:13,920 kind of when I started doing this kind 228 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,720 of work, there was a very small gap 229 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:18,280 between the revenue that we would bring 230 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,400 in in property tax and our public safety 231 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,800 expenditures. But then, we kind of went 232 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,720 on this um 233 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:27,839 feast of sales tax, and that gap widened 234 00:09:27,839 --> 00:09:30,640 because we didn't It's been 13 years 235 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,800 since you've increased property taxes in 236 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,880 your community. That's a lot of 237 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:37,480 inflation eating away at your property 238 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,640 tax revenue. And so, a lot of 239 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,720 communities are starting to rethink 240 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,880 their approach to property tax. To 241 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,400 think, you know, should we go through 242 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:47,960 truth and taxation more often and try to 243 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,720 catch up with inflation a little bit 244 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,120 more often. And if you do that, you'll 245 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,400 start to narrow that gap between your 246 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,760 public safety expenditures and your 247 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,600 property tax revenue. 248 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,920 So, if elected officials in your city or 249 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,320 town, as as the officials here in Hooper 250 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,160 do, want more property tax revenue, 251 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,760 there are only three ways to get it. 252 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,720 First way is new growth, and we're going 253 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,240 to talk about the impacts of new growth. 254 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:16,360 Um 255 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,520 This is how the formula works. You can 256 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,560 see the baseline property tax there, and 257 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:25,080 we take the uh property values, the 258 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:27,280 personal property, and then what we call 259 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,840 centrally assessed property. Those three 260 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,880 values get added together, and a rate is 261 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,680 devised that gives you the amount of 262 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:38,240 money you budgeted last year. 263 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,120 And then, we go in and we look at new 264 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,000 growth. That is real new brick and 265 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:46,640 mortar. That is not inflationary growth. 266 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:48,720 It's real new structures in your 267 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,680 community. And we apply the rate that 268 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:53,680 you have last year 269 00:10:53,680 --> 00:10:56,560 to that new growth. So, then that bumps 270 00:10:56,560 --> 00:10:58,600 up your new baseline. 271 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,200 And so, you'll then start next budget 272 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:04,360 year at a new amount of money that you 273 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,000 received. So, that's one way to get the 274 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,160 additional property tax revenue. If 275 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:11,600 you're in a high-growth community, 276 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,800 um you you may often get, you know, a 277 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,320 pretty good number coming in in new 278 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,960 growth. But, the catch is, when you have 279 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,280 that new growth, you also have to 280 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,160 provide services to those residences or 281 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,280 businesses. And so, your expenses go up 282 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,400 as well. It's not that you just get this 283 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,800 revenue, and it's windfall revenue. You 284 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,000 have an impact on your expenditure side 285 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,880 as well. But, that's how new growth 286 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,960 works. That's one way that cities and 287 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,240 towns or school districts or special 288 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,920 districts or counties can get additional 289 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,320 property tax revenue without going 290 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,000 through this truth and taxation process. 291 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,720 You don't need to go through truth and 292 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,120 taxation to get your new growth. 293 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,320 There were some changes to the way new 294 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,320 growth is calculated in our last 295 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,640 legislative session. Specifically, it 296 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,720 used to be that if you added a carport 297 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,480 or you put on a new deck or you 298 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,760 remodeled your kitchen, your it it that 299 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,360 would bump it up and we would count that 300 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,920 as new growth. The legislature has 301 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,520 expressly taken all of that out of the 302 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,120 new growth calculation now. It has to be 303 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,800 new inhabitable 304 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,360 brick and mortar. So, that means 305 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,240 somebody adding a garage, even though 306 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,640 it's new, it's brick and mortar, it's 307 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,040 square footage, it doesn't meet the test 308 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:36,800 of inhabitable. 309 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,200 And so, it wouldn't count as new growth. 310 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,839 And so, really the legislature's driving 311 00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:44,640 the new growth component to be new 312 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,000 homes, new businesses, real new things 313 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,400 in the community. Question. 314 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:52,920 Would uh our accessory dwelling units 315 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,560 considered new growth? You know, that was a question that was asked last 316 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,280 week with the tax commission. And yes, 317 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:01,800 if the new garage has an accessory 318 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:04,960 dwelling unit, that could be partially 319 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,880 new growth. The the garage wouldn't be, 320 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,120 but the accessory dwelling unit on top 321 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,990 of the garage potentially could be. 322 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:15,160 Okay. 323 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:16,880 So, that's one way to get more property 324 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,720 tax revenue, new growth. The next way, 325 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,839 annex new areas. So, if you annex in 326 00:13:22,839 --> 00:13:25,440 land, you get to apply your tax rates to 327 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,800 the land and then you get new tax 328 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,320 revenue. But, just like new growth, that 329 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,520 usually means your expenses go up as 330 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,880 well because there are more properties 331 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:37,600 that you now have to provide services 332 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,960 to. 333 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,120 So, the third and only other way to get 334 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,520 more property tax revenue is to go 335 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,160 through this truth in taxation process, 336 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,080 and to say, "We need more revenue than 337 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,640 what we had last year, and so we're 338 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,080 going to be very transparent, and we're 339 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,440 going to talk to the public." And the 340 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,880 change to the law is that we always 341 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:02,760 talked about this in a hearing in 342 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,520 August. And what the legislature has 343 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,320 asked is, "Please, let's move that 344 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,000 forward to May when you're when you're 345 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,240 starting your budget discussions, and 346 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,240 let's be very very explicit about the 347 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,680 fact that we're requesting new property 348 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:20,880 tax revenue." And so, that's why we're 349 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,640 here tonight because you started through 350 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,440 that process with your tentative budget 351 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,520 last last week, right? With your 352 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:28,360 tentative budget. 353 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,000 So, the way the truth in taxation 354 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,760 process works, 355 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,920 um is that we we go through it because 356 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,800 as I said, we've got that baseline of 357 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,720 revenue, rates go up or or values go up, 358 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:42,600 rates go down. 359 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,120 Values go down, rates go up, but we get 360 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,640 that baseline of revenue. If we want 361 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,920 more revenue than that, we go through 362 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,160 this process, this truth in taxation. 363 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:55,400 So, let's talk a little bit about how 364 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,880 the property taxes work so that you can 365 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,839 see it. This is a very simple, very 366 00:15:00,839 --> 00:15:03,560 simple, um demonstration, but I think it 367 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,960 drives home the point. We don't have 368 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,040 commercial properties in here because 369 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,760 most of us care the most about our home, 370 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,040 and and our home's value and how taxes 371 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:18,680 are applied. So, this is just homes, but the concept works the same. 372 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,240 So, here we have homes. Um I know 373 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,200 everyone wants to know where that home 374 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,760 is that they can buy for $181,000 375 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,400 because it quite frankly no longer 376 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,160 exists in Utah. 377 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,000 Um, but for our example, we're going to 378 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,760 work with that because it it makes the 379 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,120 example easy. 380 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,680 The taxable value is not the market 381 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,280 value. Remember, it's 55% of market 382 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,400 value. So, the taxable value is 383 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,520 $100,000. 384 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,840 And the taxes that each homeowner pays, 385 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,200 because look how lovely, every home is 386 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,200 valued exactly the same in this 387 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,440 community. 388 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,600 Um, and every homeowner pays $1,000 on 389 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,040 their tax bill. 390 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,840 So, as a community, we have a $1.8 391 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:01,960 million 392 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:05,080 base taxable or market value. We have a 393 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,920 $1 million taxable value once we take 394 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,800 that residential exemption off. 395 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,560 Uh, we need a 1% rate. This is much 396 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,880 higher than what anyone's rates are, but 397 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,600 it's the rate that we use to help make 398 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,200 it easy to talk about. And that produces 399 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,080 $10,000 for the community. 400 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:27,160 Okay, that's in year one. Year two. 401 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:29,600 Look at this. Everyone's value went up 402 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:30,960 by the same. 403 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,920 We know that doesn't happen, but but 404 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,760 just go with me on this so that you can 405 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,080 see in the example. Everyone's value 406 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,440 went up the same. Our total value of the 407 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,160 community increased 3.6 million. Homes 408 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:49,000 now have a tax value of 200,000. 409 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:53,200 We have a $2 million total tax value. 410 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,480 And our rate went down. 411 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,600 Now, some elected officials will try to 412 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,280 say, as they're running for election, 413 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:03,760 "I lowered your taxes. Last year, your 414 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,360 rate was 1%. This year, your rate is 415 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:08,120 0.5%." 416 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:11,000 And I say, "You can't say that." 417 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,240 Everyone paid still the same $1,000 418 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,079 each. You got your same $10,000. 419 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:21,240 The rate is revenue driven. We needed a 420 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:24,800 0.5% rate to produce the same amount of 421 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,800 revenue. You cannot talk about lowering 422 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,400 taxes because you lowered the rate. 423 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:31,800 That's why I don't like these 424 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,800 discussions of rates. 425 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:35,640 So, let's go to year three. 426 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,120 This is a little more realistic. Homes 427 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,480 kind of changed all over the place. Uh 428 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,920 the the value changes weren't the same. 429 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,400 Some went up, some went down from year 430 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,680 two. We now have a $2.2 million market 431 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,960 value for our community. 432 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,280 We have homes that have different values 433 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,920 uh that the rate will be applied to. 434 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,640 We get our same $10,000 as the 435 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,720 government because that's our baseline. 436 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,720 We get 10,000. 437 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,320 There's our taxable value, and look what 438 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,240 happened to our rate. 439 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,880 Now, someone who runs against somebody 440 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,240 for office will say, "They raised taxes. 441 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,080 Last year it was 0.5. This year it's 442 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,400 0.82. They raised taxes." And they are 443 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,800 right to say, "No, we did not. We got 444 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,440 the same $10,000 that we got in the 445 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,120 previous year." 446 00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,520 But, let me tell you, when I take phone 447 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,400 calls, I've taken many of these phone 448 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,640 calls over my career from homeowner 10, 449 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,240 does homeowner 10 believe that they did 450 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:40,520 not raise taxes? 451 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:42,840 They're paying more. They paid a 452 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,320 thousand last year. Now they're paying 453 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,880 1,184. 454 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,560 And what we have to explain to them is, 455 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,600 "We did not raise taxes. We got the same 456 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,520 amount of money, but because your value 457 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,360 went up and others went down, you are 458 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,840 paying a larger proportional share. 459 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:04,800 Other homeowners are paying a little bit 460 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,960 less, and you're paying a little bit 461 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:10,240 more. It's not their fault. It's That's 462 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,800 how property taxes work in the state of 463 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,360 Utah. That's the system that we all live 464 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:17,560 with. 465 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,640 Now, let's go to year four. We didn't 466 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,440 change anything from any of our other 10 467 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,320 homes. That, you know, we kind of the 468 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,520 economy leveled out, everything stayed 469 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,320 steady. 470 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,800 We had our same market value, but look 471 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,480 what happened. We had a new house that 472 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,600 was built in the community. 473 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,400 It has now its taxable value. We get to 474 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,160 apply our 0.82 rate. We get to bring in 475 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,840 another 150,000 of taxable value. 476 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,200 We get to apply that rate, and look what 477 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,000 happens to our baseline for next year. 478 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,760 We get an additional $1,224. 479 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,920 We also have an additional home to 480 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,600 serve, but the following year our 481 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,160 baseline now starts at 11,124 482 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,200 instead of instead of the 10,000 that we 483 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,400 had. 484 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,600 That's just how it works in Utah. 485 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,840 Like it, hate it, you know, whatever. 486 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,360 It's not these elected officials who set 487 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,520 those rules. You just live within the 488 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:21,880 system 489 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,560 of these rules of how we do property tax 490 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,680 rate setting in Utah. 491 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,720 I don't like communities to compare 492 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,920 rates to each other. And this I pulled 493 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,680 this together for a training that I did 494 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,640 down in Wayne County, but I thought it 495 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,120 was really illustrative of why it 496 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:40,120 doesn't make a lot of sense to compare 497 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:42,760 your rate to the next community's rate. 498 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,240 So, in this example, Bicknell has the 499 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:46,760 lowest rate. 500 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,000 But they don't have the lowest revenue, 501 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,440 nor are they least dependent on property 502 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,760 tax from any of the other communities in 503 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,680 the example. The least dependent is 504 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,160 Lyman, who has a larger rate than 505 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,720 Bicknell does, but they are less than 1% 506 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,960 dependent on property tax in their 507 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,360 community. 508 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:08,280 Um then you look at Lyman Croghan. The 509 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,920 rate is almost identical on those two 510 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,040 communities, but the revenue is not. And 511 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,880 it's because the rate is multiplied by 512 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,800 their taxable value. So, what you know 513 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,120 from looking at these numbers is that 514 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:28,720 Croghan has a higher taxable value than Lyman has in their community 515 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:30,720 because of the revenue that's generated 516 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,520 from nearly the same rate. 517 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,800 I wanted to point out Salina. Salina 518 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,000 made a policy decision a few years ago 519 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,680 that they wanted to do more frequent uh 520 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,200 property tax increases so that they 521 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,760 would become more dependent on property 522 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,600 tax as a total mix within their budget 523 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,960 because they recognized that it is the 524 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,040 most stable part of revenue for local 525 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,960 government. And so, they set out on on a 526 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,680 policy goal of doing more frequent, 527 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,760 smaller increases to try to increase the 528 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,920 amount of revenue that they bring in. 529 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,280 And they are now exceeding the statewide 530 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,400 average where I told you before we're 531 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:13,440 around 14% 532 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,200 on average within general funds 533 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,920 dependent on property tax. Salina is 534 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,160 around 20% now, and I love that because 535 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,200 as an old budget policy geek, I like to 536 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,760 be able to see, "Oh, you made a policy 537 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:28,520 decision." And I can start to see the 538 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,880 policy decision reflected in the numbers 539 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:31,960 now. 540 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,920 And then the same with Wayne County. 541 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:35,840 does a property tax 542 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:38,760 increase that's equal to the CPI every 543 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,120 year. They just say they got their 544 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:42,960 property tax to where they wanted it to 545 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,960 be, and they said, "We don't want to let 546 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,840 inflation erode it again. And so, we're 547 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,960 going to go through truth and taxation 548 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,280 in Wayne County every year so that we 549 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,880 stay even. We want it to be almost a 550 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,520 third of our budget." And that's where 551 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,240 they are now in Wayne County. Again, you 552 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,760 can see the policy decision in action 553 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,040 here. 554 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,600 Another really quick slide. This is I 555 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,920 just recently did some training in 556 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,440 Helper, Utah. So, I pulled the Carbon 557 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:13,480 County slide so that you can see it's 558 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,680 not just a Wayne County 559 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:16,880 issue. 560 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,200 You know, you can see the different 561 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,560 rates, the different revenue, and and it 562 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,640 just I hope drives home don't don't 563 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,080 compare your rate to another community's 564 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,640 rate and say that's what our rate should 565 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,520 be because community X has that kind of 566 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,600 a rate. 567 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,240 So, back to our budget process and truth 568 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,720 in taxation. Normally, when you go 569 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:41,560 through your budget process, it lasts, 570 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:43,280 you know, you you turn in your tentative 571 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,960 budget at the first meeting in May. Your 572 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,560 budget will needs to be adopted by June 573 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,680 30th. So, between May and June, that's 574 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,960 the bulk of your budget process. When 575 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,840 you go through truth in taxation, you're 576 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,960 going to be busy all summer. There are 577 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,600 things you need to do because you will 578 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,680 not adopt your final budget until 579 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,160 August. Um and we're going to talk 580 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,800 through in excruciating detail 581 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,480 um the way the process works out. 582 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,640 So, I want to show you the differences 583 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,280 between a regular budget process and a 584 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,840 truth in taxation budget process. And 585 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,000 this is the ugliest slide of the deck. 586 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,360 I'll just give you a warning now. 587 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,920 So, this is what a normal budget process 588 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:25,240 looks like. 589 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,600 Um I always train that kind of January 590 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,960 to April, I want you to be talking about 591 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,960 your big budget policy issues as you 592 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,440 start to narrow in on your tentative 593 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,160 budget and what you're going to need for 594 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,480 the coming year. And then in May, the 595 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,760 tentative budget uh becomes available to 596 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,720 the public. In May and June, you provide 597 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:45,760 notice of a public hearing on that 598 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,400 tentative budget. And then before June 599 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,200 22nd, 600 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,880 um you go ahead and well, you have your 601 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,880 hearing in June. Before June 22nd, you 602 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,480 adopt your certified tax rate. 603 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,600 Um and then by June 30th, you adopt your 604 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,560 final budget and you're done. You file 605 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,440 it and and you move on to the next year. 606 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,960 When I put this next piece up, 607 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,120 everything in the dark blue is the 608 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,760 regular budget process. Everything in 609 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,600 green is what used to be truth in 610 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,120 taxation and still is. And then 611 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,920 everything kind of in the aqua, the 612 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,320 light blue, is new for this year. And 613 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:23,920 they're the new requirements that you're 614 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,910 grappling with. 615 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:28,840 Here it comes. 616 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,000 So that's the new process to go through 617 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,400 truth in taxation this year. And you'll 618 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,120 notice that most of the light blue is 619 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:39,240 loaded into May because that's where we 620 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,240 wanted to fast forward all of that 621 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,520 transparency. And so that's where a lot 622 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,560 of those requirements are and you've 623 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,360 already crossed your first hurdle, 624 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:49,640 right? That with that transmittal of the 625 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,440 tentative budget, you've got your 626 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,440 schedule, your property tax impact 627 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,560 schedule. I think I saw on your agenda 628 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,960 that your budget officer made it very 629 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:00,640 clear you had an intention of a 630 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,800 statement and you made a statement that 631 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,280 you were going to increase property 632 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,360 taxes. And did you do your 633 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:09,280 Did I see you did your May 1st to June 634 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,200 13th statement last week as well? So 635 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,160 that second statement. So So the law 636 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,560 changed and there are two statements and 637 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,720 a schedule that need to happen and we're 638 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:22,720 recommending that they happen at that 639 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,960 first meeting cuz it's just totally 640 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,480 completely transparent and that's what I saw that you all did. 641 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,280 We're going to talk through this process 642 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,520 in pretty good detail now. 643 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,600 But that But just as we go through it, 644 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,240 those are your new changes for this 645 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,200 coming year. 646 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,360 So one of the things that we want to 647 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,120 remember is the legislature, by 648 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:46,280 designing the process the way they have 649 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,400 now, they recognize how transparent we 650 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,520 are as local governments. We do a pretty 651 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,920 good job of being transparent with what 652 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,080 we're doing. They want us to be even 653 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,240 more transparent when we're talking 654 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,840 about increasing property taxes. The 655 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,720 reason being is many many people in the 656 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,560 community don't really clue into the 657 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,200 fact that there was a property tax 658 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,840 increase until they receive the notice 659 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,320 from the county auditor that comes out 660 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,400 right around July 22nd. And that's when 661 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,680 legislator phones go off the hook 662 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,320 because the public's calling and saying, 663 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,440 "I I didn't even know about this and now 664 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,240 there's a hearing and I have no idea 665 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,000 what's going on." And so, what we're 666 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,800 doing this year and the new changes are 667 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,000 in response to that to try to really get 668 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,320 the public informed early and before you 669 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,840 adopt your budget that there's a 670 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,880 property tax increase involved. I think 671 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,280 it's a really great opportunity 672 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,520 for you to do what you're doing tonight 673 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,600 and other meetings where you really 674 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,640 educate the public about the amazing 675 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,440 services that you provide and the 676 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,080 relatively small cost that they pay for 677 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:02,240 them. And so, I like what we're doing 678 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:05,240 that we are talking in a in a more 679 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,000 direct way about the cost of providing 680 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,680 those services and how we all need to 681 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,680 pitch in a little bit so that we can 682 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,680 have these great communities across the 683 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,240 state that we live in. 684 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,640 So, this is a headline out of the 685 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,120 newspaper when this law passed and it 686 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,840 was all about bolstering transparency 687 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,600 with city school districts and other 688 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,000 entities that are going through this 689 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,400 process. 690 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:31,560 We're going to spend a lot of time 691 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:33,240 tonight talking about the new 692 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,560 requirements of House Bill 236 and then 693 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,160 there are some requirements in Senate 694 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,680 Bill 238. We won't spend as much time on 695 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,600 the other two because they're not quite 696 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,640 as applicable to what we're doing. 697 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,920 The objectives of the new law were to 698 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,040 bring the public into the process as 699 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,520 early as possible and you did that last 700 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,560 week. But, you know, your first meeting, 701 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,360 your first kickoff meeting in the budget 702 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,280 season, you brought them in. 703 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,520 And then also to alleviate the public 704 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,200 concern that by the time they get that 705 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,240 late July notice and they hear about the 706 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,400 August meeting, you're already four or 707 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,560 six or eight weeks into your budget. And 708 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,520 the public was concerned that when that 709 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,640 happens, you're already spending the 710 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,680 money. 711 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,640 Um and you haven't even gone through the 712 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,160 public hearing process to determine, you 713 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,760 know, whether or not you're really going 714 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,760 to raise property taxes. And so, we've 715 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,600 talked a lot of times about how we can 716 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,560 change the process and this transparency 717 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,880 is the best way to change the process 718 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,480 moving forward. 719 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,320 Um and so, there are a couple of budget 720 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,600 things that we'll talk about that you 721 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,000 need to do when you adopt what we're now 722 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,600 calling an interim budget in June. 723 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,920 Uh to move forward. 724 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,880 So, the new requirements, I'm going to 725 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,000 just populate this slide really quickly 726 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,000 because at the end of the day, these are 727 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,360 the four things that we have to do is we 728 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,680 have to have the public statement, which 729 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,080 you did last week, that a property tax 730 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,680 is included in your tentative budget. 731 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,800 We need to have the property tax impact 732 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,600 schedule as a separate item from all 733 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,680 other budget documents and that's what 734 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,920 you have on your back table today and I 735 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,600 think you have it on your website as 736 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,240 well. Is that right? 737 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,600 Um you need another public statement and 738 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,400 that's the one that I asked about that 739 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,040 May 1st to June 13th. There are some 740 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,760 reasons why that latitude was given in 741 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:32,400 that period of time and it's so that if your tax increase did wasn't so large 742 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,600 and maybe new growth could have taken 743 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,960 care of it, they want to give 744 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,560 communities time to see the new growth 745 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,200 number. And the new growth number now 746 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,280 has to come to you from your county 747 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,920 auditor by June 13th. So, that's why 748 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:48,880 they've given some time, but if you know 749 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,840 you're moving forward with truth in 750 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,640 taxation because you know from your 751 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,880 building permits that new growth is not 752 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,000 going to produce the revenue you need, 753 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,000 then we think you're wise to go ahead 754 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,960 and do that second statement last week 755 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,640 like you did with your budget 756 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,000 transmittal. 757 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,600 And then, this is a really great change. 758 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,040 Previously, when communities would go 759 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,560 through truth in taxation, we had to 760 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,280 have them tentatively adopt their final 761 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,320 budget in June. 762 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,280 And and it couldn't be a final adoption 763 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:21,040 because that's not until after August 764 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,440 and after the truth in taxation hearing, 765 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,640 and it was very confusing to the public. 766 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,760 Like, why are we tentatively adopting a 767 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,640 final budget? But, we had to do that so 768 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,440 that our local officials had spending 769 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,720 authority for July 1. There had to be 770 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,560 something in place. 771 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,360 Now, we've introduced this definition of 772 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,840 what we call an interim budget, and I 773 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,400 love this. I love that we came up with 774 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,600 this during this last session. The 775 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,200 interim budget authorizes your spending 776 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,360 on July 1 and serves as your placeholder 777 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,520 budget until you adopt your final budget 778 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,000 in August. 779 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,760 In the interim budget, you're required 780 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,880 to hold in a separate account. For you, 781 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,640 it will be $128,000 782 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,360 because that's the amount of revenue 783 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,720 that you want in new property tax 784 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,960 revenue. You will hold that in a 785 00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,240 separate account. It will not be 786 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,920 appropriated. It will not be available 787 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,000 to spend on July 1. You cannot release 788 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,600 that money until after you finalize the 789 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:26,000 process, and if you don't finalize the 790 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,200 process, your final budget that gets 791 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,520 adopted does not include that $128,000. 792 00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,960 Does that make sense? And and we thought 793 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,720 that was a much better way, a much more 794 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,320 transparent way to demonstrate to the 795 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,040 public that our local officials are not 796 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,880 spending money on July 1 that they have 797 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,400 not been approved to have yet. Carrie, 798 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:48,160 can I ask a question? 799 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:48,800 >> Yes, please. 800 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,120 >> So, up here when you're talking about 801 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:52,360 the public statement, the second public 802 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:52,840 statement 803 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:53,280 >> Yes. 804 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:54,760 >> what we're talking about the increase 805 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,560 >> to be here. Sorry. 806 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,000 It's karaoke night. 807 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,520 Uh when we're asking about the purpose, 808 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,040 how granular or specific does that need 809 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,840 to be? So, in our case, we're asking for 810 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:09,120 128,000 to to help fund law enforcement. 811 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:09,720 >> Yep. 812 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,560 And we only end up spending a hundred of 813 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,960 that, is there is there blowback on that 814 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,320 extra 28,000 or can a city just announce 815 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,160 say, "Look, this is for our potential 816 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,000 shortfalls in the general fund." 817 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,360 So, it's supposed to be at the 818 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,680 appropriation level. And so, that's the 819 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,440 department level. 820 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:31,080 And I would not put I would not only 821 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,240 spend a hundred thousand on public 822 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,800 safety and then have 28 that's kind of 823 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,680 flexible. Be really specific. If you 824 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,680 need to add specificity to your property 825 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,240 tax impact schedule to use the full 20 826 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,680 128, do that. Um 827 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,120 you know, certainly it's a budget. You 828 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,040 get to amend your budget just like you 829 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,240 always do. None of your budget authority 830 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,520 is eroded in this process. 831 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,760 But, it will hurt all cities and towns 832 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,880 if we see cities and towns out there not 833 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,400 staying true to the to the property tax 834 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,640 impact schedule. There's a reason we're 835 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,919 developing these schedules and it's so 836 00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:12,280 that we can show the public, this is 837 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,240 where we need the money in our budget. 838 00:34:14,240 --> 00:34:16,280 And if you need the money because you 839 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,000 need to bolster your fund balance 840 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:19,800 because you're falling below the fund 841 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,120 balance requirement, say that. Say, we 842 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:26,280 need it in our fund balance. Question. 843 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,600 So, for this exact situation, this 844 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,720 128,000 is is just kind of a 845 00:34:31,720 --> 00:34:34,399 pass-through increase that comes from 846 00:34:34,399 --> 00:34:36,760 the police force for public safety. 847 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,000 Um but it's on a determined amount of 848 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,840 head count that the 849 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,360 uh sheriff's department is is taking in 850 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,520 addition. And so they were working 851 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,200 through a process of getting approved 852 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,879 the six head count. But I don't think 853 00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:50,600 there was a discussion between 10 and 6 854 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,840 and they essentially tentatively landed 855 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,879 on the six coming out. 856 00:34:54,879 --> 00:34:57,040 If they do more or if they do less is 857 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,160 not really up to us. So what happens in 858 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:00,960 that situation where like we are 859 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,160 contracted to spend for the six head 860 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,280 count of 128,000, 861 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,640 but if they don't pass three of those 862 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,520 guys through the academy and don't get 863 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,080 all six ready, um you know, I doubt 864 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,480 they're going to charge us for three 865 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,720 that aren't existing. So what would 866 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:16,400 happen in that scenario? Then you would 867 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,440 just have a holdover till next year 868 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:19,720 because they'd probably get the 869 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,760 additional three, right? The idea would 870 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,760 be you're funding what you're 871 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,720 contractually obligated to fund. But 872 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:29,640 you're asking a very good question. 873 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,440 You can go lower 874 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,200 anytime between now and August. You can 875 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,120 lower the amount of revenue you need 876 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,240 after June 22nd. Once you adopt that 877 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,840 rate, it gets put into the valuation 878 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,960 notices, you may not go higher. 879 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,560 So from now until June 22nd, you could 880 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:54,080 go up a little if you needed to. Tax 881 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,600 Commission doesn't love it if you do 882 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,120 that, but but we fought really hard to 883 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,360 keep the council's budget authority. You 884 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,840 have that budget authority until June 885 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,840 22nd. Once you adopt a tentative rate on 886 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,560 June 22nd and you let the county auditor 887 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,760 know and the state tax commission know 888 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,680 how much revenue you need, at that point 889 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,080 you can only go lower. You cannot go 890 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:19,680 higher. 891 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,200 Does that make sense? 892 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,480 Okay. 893 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,150 Good questions, Foley. 894 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,560 Okay. This is just a sample property tax 895 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,440 impact schedule. Yours looks really 896 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,280 similar. Uh this one got the check of 897 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,800 the State Tax Commission. Um they like 898 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,960 it and so I am certain that yours will 899 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,360 be fine as well because it's modeled 900 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,040 after it and you've got all of the key 901 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,360 information there uh that the Tax 902 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,040 Commission wanted to see on a property 903 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,360 tax impact 904 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:49,520 schedule. 905 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:51,480 Um and this is new. This might change 906 00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,240 next year, right? This was our first 907 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:56,600 time out. Um and they they told us Frank 908 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,240 and I were on a Tax Commission training 909 00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:02,080 today on this and they said they've now 910 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,680 reviewed dozens. Just so you know, we 911 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,400 know right now of 50 different cities 912 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,200 and towns going through this process 913 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,480 this year. So you're not alone. There 914 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,120 are a lot of us and and we're out there 915 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,320 learning together. Tax Commission said 916 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,560 they reviewed dozens and that they all 917 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,840 look pretty good. That and I think it's 918 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,520 because we put out an example and we had 919 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:24,200 worked with the Tax Commission to get 920 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,840 this example ready before we released it 921 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,400 to our local officials 3 weeks ago now, 922 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:31,640 right? Down in St. George. 923 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,200 So these are just your applicable 924 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,640 statutes. Um if you want to go back and 925 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,720 look at the laws that govern truth in 926 00:37:37,720 --> 00:37:40,760 taxation, whether you're a city or town. 927 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,840 Um the blue are the just the general 928 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,200 budget process and then the green uh 929 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,120 govern truth in taxation. Tax Commission 930 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,280 told us today that the final language of 931 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:53,920 the laws are now online live. So no 932 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,360 longer do we have to go back and look at 933 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,680 those um bills from last year. Up until 934 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,920 just this week we've been using those 935 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,280 bills to help us um 936 00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,320 sift through everything we needed to do 937 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,160 because the language online hadn't 938 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,880 caught up yet, but it's there now. 939 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,920 This is um the Tax Commission checklist. 940 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,800 So this is a really great tool. I hope 941 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,480 you've downloaded it already. If if any 942 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,880 resident wants to see the steps that 943 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,800 cities and towns and school districts 944 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,520 and everyone will have to go through, 945 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,680 um you need to currently you need to 946 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,840 email the tax commission if you want it 947 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,120 directly from the tax commission. Um 948 00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,120 they're having an issue putting it on 949 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,480 their website because it is not um ADA 950 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,960 fully ADA accessible yet and they need 951 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,880 to have they can only post links to 952 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,680 things that are ADA accessible. However, 953 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:49,680 if you look at your Friday Facts from 954 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,520 the Utah League of Cities and Towns from 955 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,160 either April 17th or 24th or May 8th, 956 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,440 this is all online at the Utah League of 957 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:00,200 Cities and Towns. We took their PDF and 958 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,560 we've got it there for you. So, you can 959 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,360 get to the checklist if you want to see 960 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,480 the checklist. And if you don't get 961 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,360 Friday Facts, you can just go to the 962 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,160 Utah League of Cities and Towns website 963 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,040 and look for the property tax resources, 964 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,720 but this checklist is going to be 965 00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:16,720 invaluable to you. 966 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:19,280 Secondly, at the Utah League of Cities 967 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,960 and Towns website, we have um a really 968 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,840 detailed spreadsheet that lists out 969 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,320 Frank, was it 53 tasks? 970 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,400 that you need to go through um 971 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:33,920 and some of them are required by 972 00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,480 statute, some of them are tax commission 973 00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,200 rule, and then some of them are best 974 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,960 recommendations that that we're just 975 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,440 making to you. 976 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,000 Um so, you can go look at can hold you 977 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,520 can say, "I don't really care about 978 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,720 Carrie's best practice recommendations. 979 00:39:48,720 --> 00:39:51,040 I just want what's in the statute." You 980 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:52,520 can get rid of the recommendations and 981 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:54,800 just see the statute requirements or you 982 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,720 can just look at what the tax commission 983 00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:58,640 uh requirements are. So, that's a really 984 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,720 helpful tool for you and you can see 985 00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:03,280 that on that we've uh cited the 986 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,320 statutory reference so that if you want 987 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:06,680 to go back and read the law for 988 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,560 yourself, which we hope you do and we 989 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,840 hope your attorneys do um because that 990 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,200 you'll see it at the end, but but we're 991 00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,120 not giving you legal advice here. We're 992 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,920 giving you our best read of the law. You 993 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,680 have your attorney, and your attorney 994 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,880 needs to give you the legal advice for 995 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,200 your community. 996 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,920 So, now we're going to do a deep dive 997 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,960 month by month, and we're going to use 998 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,480 this same legend that we used. We're 999 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,280 going to focus a lot on the Aqua, which 1000 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,640 are the new requirements for 2026. 1001 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,160 So, January to April, we're well past 1002 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:43,640 that now. Um but that's when I like to 1003 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:45,960 have that annual goal setting session, 1004 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,040 and I start looking at the historic 1005 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:49,880 revenue and expenditure trends as we 1006 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,320 build the budget. 1007 00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,400 Um at that point, and if you haven't 1008 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:55,720 already, please go in and create or 1009 00:40:55,720 --> 00:40:58,480 update as a as a city your user 1010 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:00,520 information in the certified tax rate 1011 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:02,120 system. You're going to need to be 1012 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,560 putting information into that system 1013 00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:06,680 throughout the process. So, you want to 1014 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:08,360 make sure that you can get in there, and 1015 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,800 you can access the system well. 1016 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,160 Um in mid-April, um 1017 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,400 we thought people should maybe have a 1018 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,200 training like this, where you talk about 1019 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,960 property taxes, and you talk about the 1020 00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,760 way property taxes work in Utah. 1021 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:24,200 Okay, May. 1022 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,560 Um 1023 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,480 the first Tuesday or first meeting in 1024 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,560 May, depending on when your first 1025 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,200 meeting of May is, you've already passed 1026 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,400 that. As far as I can tell, you've 1027 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,240 already checked all the boxes that 1028 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,040 needed to be checked. You had your 1029 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,200 property tax impact schedule as a 1030 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,440 separate item on your agenda and 1031 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,560 separate from your budget. You made two 1032 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,480 different statements, and with each 1033 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:48,800 statement you made an intention that you 1034 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:50,920 were going to make the statement. Um I 1035 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,400 think that's where some people are going 1036 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,720 to get tripped up this year. Cam, when 1037 00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,360 we were presenting last week at the 1038 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,040 Rural Growth Summit down in Wayne 1039 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,400 County, he said that's probably part of 1040 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,560 the language we'll work on next year, is 1041 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,200 that do it making an intention and then 1042 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:05,960 a statement feels 1043 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,720 a little clunky, but it is how we are 1044 00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:11,040 all interpreting the code this year. And 1045 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,440 so, I'm glad you did it that way because 1046 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,000 we feel pretty strongly and and actually 1047 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,120 the tax commission in the meeting with 1048 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,080 me training last Thursday said, "Yep, we 1049 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,080 interpret it the same way. The same way 1050 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:25,440 you read it, that's how we read it." So, 1051 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,200 we're really glad that that you've got 1052 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,880 that through. You'll want to make sure 1053 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,440 in your minutes that it's well reflected 1054 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,240 in the minutes that you did all of that. 1055 00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:36,000 So, you've got your agenda and then have 1056 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,880 your minutes before you finalize the 1057 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,160 minutes of that last meeting. 1058 00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,840 For as you go through this process, what 1059 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:45,280 you don't want is the tax commission to 1060 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:46,640 have to go fumbling through your 1061 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:48,200 recordings and stuff to find the 1062 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,120 information they're looking for. So, 1063 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,120 talk to your clerk's for orders and have 1064 00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:54,720 them be really great about really 1065 00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:57,160 putting in these details as you go 1066 00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,160 through in your minutes. So, that when 1067 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,000 you submit this as evidence and we're 1068 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:02,960 going to talk about that at the end of 1069 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,360 the process, you need to submit evidence 1070 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,280 to your county auditor and the state tax 1071 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,680 commission, your minutes become part of 1072 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,080 that evidentiary record. And then I 1073 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,920 think that you followed our best 1074 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:15,840 recommendation approach of three 1075 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,720 different resolutions. Um it looked like 1076 00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,400 it on the draft agenda that I saw. And 1077 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,120 again, that's helping the tax commission 1078 00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:26,960 see that that information was provided 1079 00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,760 to the public. And doing it in 1080 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,440 resolution form then involves the 1081 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,840 legislative body giving the direction to 1082 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,120 move forward. And so, that's why we 1083 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,400 recommended that approach. 1084 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:41,040 Um you've got that then we said, you 1085 00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,720 know, maybe have a mid-May town hall 1086 00:43:42,720 --> 00:43:44,440 meeting and and you're doing that to 1087 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,800 talk about the reasons why. This is the 1088 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,880 next statement. I didn't put it in the 1089 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,760 first Tuesday because it's not legally 1090 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,600 required to be there. You've done it 1091 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,280 already, but but between those dates, 1092 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:58,040 that statement's required. 1093 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:00,520 These are our recommended practices. 1094 00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:02,960 Number one is we think you should create 1095 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,160 an electronic file location and that's 1096 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:06,680 where you're going to start saving all 1097 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,160 of your evidence. 1098 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:09,800 So, you're going to save those signed 1099 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,440 resolutions. You're going to save the 1100 00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,000 agenda. You're going to save your 1101 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,400 minutes, so that it's really easy for 1102 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,360 you to pull together this evidentiary 1103 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:19,720 package when you need to at the end of 1104 00:44:19,720 --> 00:44:21,480 the process and send that through to the 1105 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,040 tax commission. 1106 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:24,560 Um 1107 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,480 And then, this 1108 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,320 It was very interesting to me when I was 1109 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,440 training with the tax commission last 1110 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,400 week. My recommendation for our cities 1111 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,840 and towns is that every time you discuss 1112 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,920 the budget from now until June 30th, 1113 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,280 whenever the budget's on your agenda, 1114 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,880 please include your property tax impact 1115 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,200 statement as a separate informational 1116 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:50,280 item and include it here in the meeting 1117 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,800 physically. 1118 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,640 Um When I said that, the tax commission 1119 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,480 said, "Because legally, the way the law 1120 00:44:57,480 --> 00:45:00,520 is written, you only need do that if 1121 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,480 you're having a budget hearing." 1122 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:05,880 And I just think that this is all about 1123 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,320 transparency, and so why wouldn't we 1124 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,520 include it every time we have a budget 1125 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:11,920 discussion? 1126 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,320 And the tax commission said, "We agree, 1127 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,400 and we're going to be looking to see if 1128 00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,120 the schedule was there at every meeting, 1129 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,280 because they they actually think it was 1130 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:23,880 kind of a drafting error that it says 1131 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,480 hearing, not meeting." And so, I really 1132 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,800 think if if as we move forward, just put 1133 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,920 it on every agenda as an informational 1134 00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,080 item. And the example I gave in the 1135 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,200 training last week was 1136 00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,280 say you have somebody who comes to your 1137 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:39,720 meeting, 1138 00:45:39,720 --> 00:45:42,000 wasn't at your tentative budget meeting, 1139 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,720 comes to your next meeting where you're 1140 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:45,440 discussing the budget, but you're not 1141 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:47,880 discussing public safety or the tax 1142 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:49,960 increase, you're discussing that say 1143 00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:51,680 animal control. 1144 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,840 If you don't have the schedule on your 1145 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,000 agenda, and if it's not there for them, 1146 00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,400 they honestly could maybe not even know 1147 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,000 you're proposing a tax increase. 1148 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,640 And so, in transparency, if it's on the 1149 00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,160 agenda every single time as your 1150 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,480 property tax increase impact schedule, 1151 00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,400 then you've just been fully transparent 1152 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,680 that this budget that we're discussing, 1153 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:16,600 even though we might not be discussing 1154 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,080 that aspect tonight, the budget as a 1155 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,000 whole includes this property tax 1156 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,320 increase. 1157 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,000 Um and then, 1158 00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,400 you know, again, I just I love town 1159 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:28,200 halls. I love bringing the public in. 1160 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,040 Frank and I worked with a client last 1161 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,520 year on doing theirs. By the way, when 1162 00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,320 all of the others or many of the others 1163 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:36,760 didn't get through, ours did. Our 1164 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,240 the one we were working on did get 1165 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,680 through, but it was awesome. They had a 1166 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,480 community potluck. Now, who will show up 1167 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,960 to a community potluck where you're 1168 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,960 going to talk about taxes? 1169 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,280 Their community did. Um and they said it 1170 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,040 was great fun. Everyone brought food. 1171 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:52,920 They shared the food with one another, 1172 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,680 and then they talked about the budget, 1173 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:57,920 the constraints on the budget, and why 1174 00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,640 the elected officials were were 1175 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,000 contemplating raising the taxes, which 1176 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,080 they ultimately did. 1177 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,600 We've talked about the first meeting in 1178 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,360 May recommendations and the three 1179 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,320 resolutions submittal. I won't go 1180 00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:11,080 through those tonight. 1181 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:12,840 This, for the members of the public who 1182 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,920 are here, uh one of the things that we 1183 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,920 provided was a best practice sample 1184 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,920 agenda, and your agenda mirrored the 1185 00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,440 sample. That was great. And so, we 1186 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,040 wanted again, we wanted to make it 1187 00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,120 really easy for cities and towns uh to 1188 00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,200 meet the requirements of that first 1189 00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,720 meeting in May. You had all eight items 1190 00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,840 on your agenda as as I saw them. Um and 1191 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,480 so, that was great. 1192 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:40,440 So, then into June. Um you always had to 1193 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,200 do this in June. You had to set the 1194 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:43,880 public hearing date and time for your 1195 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,080 truth in taxation hearing. 1196 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,600 Um and you need to notify by June 1st 1197 00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:49,920 the auditor and the state tax 1198 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:53,080 commission. Um if you If you should have 1199 00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:56,080 set that time in your last meeting, um 1200 00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:58,360 notify them now. Don't wait till June 1201 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,120 1st. If you haven't already sent that 1202 00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:03,640 notification, get it sent on tomorrow. 1203 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,040 Um, because the county auditor needs to 1204 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,040 then take all of those dates that are 1205 00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,320 set and needs to balance and make sure 1206 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,720 that no tax hearings are overlapping one 1207 00:48:14,720 --> 00:48:17,800 another. So that a taxpayer has an 1208 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,000 opportunity to go to every tax hearing 1209 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,160 that will impact their property. And 1210 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,560 it's quite an elaborate process. I know 1211 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,800 in Salt Lake County, the county auditor 1212 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,480 has designated one night that's going to 1213 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,080 be all cities because they know they 1214 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,320 won't overlap with anyone else. So 1215 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:36,440 they're not going to have any other 1216 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,120 entities on that night. It's just going 1217 00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:39,640 to be all the cities who are going 1218 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,400 through truth and taxation in Salt Lake 1219 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,640 County on that one night. But if you 1220 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,120 haven't already, you have until June 1221 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:47,960 1st, but I would not wait until June 1222 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,480 1st. You've already You did it last week 1223 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:52,720 procedurally, so go ahead and make those 1224 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,320 notifications to your county auditor and 1225 00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,720 the state tax commission. 1226 00:48:57,720 --> 00:49:01,120 Uh, in June, this has been a big 1227 00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:03,400 question. Do we still need to have a 1228 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,200 public hearing on the tentative budget 1229 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,560 in June? Yes. Nothing in the law 1230 00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:10,920 exempted us from not having the 1231 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,560 regularly scheduled June public hearing 1232 00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,800 on our tentative budget. So you should 1233 00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:17,920 still plan You should have set that date 1234 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,400 last week when you adopted your 1235 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,840 tentative budget. You should still plan 1236 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,480 to have that hearing and it can be no 1237 00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,480 sooner than 10 days after the release of 1238 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:28,560 the tentative budget. So some 1239 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,160 communities I know like to have that 1240 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,520 budget at the end of May. They just need 1241 00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:34,240 to make sure they've given enough time 1242 00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:35,640 that the tentative budget's been out 1243 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:39,120 there. And then just a reminder, again, 1244 00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,960 if at your June hearing, this isn't a 1245 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,880 recommendation of best practice, you 1246 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,000 must have that schedule available and it 1247 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:49,880 must be a separate item on your agenda. 1248 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,720 Can be informational, but it needs to be 1249 00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:54,920 there on the night of your June budget 1250 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,320 hearing, okay? Your property impact 1251 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,200 schedule. 1252 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,080 And then before June 22nd, 1253 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,840 uh you need to adopt a resolution 1254 00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:06,640 establishing the tentative tax rate. And 1255 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,800 you'll you'll narrow in on what that 1256 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:10,880 needs to be. The county auditor's going 1257 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,320 to help you with the tax commission uh 1258 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:14,600 because you're going to be exceeding the 1259 00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,680 certified tax rate, but whether you're 1260 00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:19,120 going through truth and taxation or not, 1261 00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,520 everyone needs to do this step by June 1262 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,640 22nd because this is what goes into the 1263 00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,760 county auditor's notice that goes out to 1264 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:31,120 the public. Okay? So, by June 22nd, uh 1265 00:50:31,120 --> 00:50:33,520 actually before June 22nd, you can't do 1266 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,640 it on the 22nd. It's The law says 1267 00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,000 before. 1268 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,920 Um you need to adopt the resolution 1269 00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:41,520 tentatively establishing the rate that 1270 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,200 will produce the revenue that you need 1271 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,120 it to produce. 1272 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:47,600 And then before the last day of June, so 1273 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,240 by June 30th, you need to adopt an 1274 00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:53,360 ordinance or resolution approving your 1275 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,880 interim budget. This is where we're no 1276 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,760 longer in truth and taxation tentatively 1277 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,840 approving the final budget. You approve 1278 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,560 that interim budget to give you your 1279 00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:07,310 spending authority beginning on July 1. 1280 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,240 So, also in June, you can request that 1281 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:13,640 the county auditor include your property 1282 00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,400 tax impact schedule in the statements 1283 00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,840 that they mail out to the public. 1284 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,000 If you want it included, you will have 1285 00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:23,800 to pay for that. They They likely won't 1286 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:26,040 pay for it. You will need to get it to 1287 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:27,800 them in June, 1288 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,120 um but after June 22nd, you can only go 1289 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,560 down. You can't go up anyway. So, you 1290 00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:35,240 should have that schedule pretty set. If 1291 00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:37,480 you want to include it, ask your county 1292 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,120 auditor. They must include it if you're 1293 00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:42,720 willing to pay to have it included. 1294 00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:46,270 Yes, Frank. 1295 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,360 Yes, also in January you'll have three 1296 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:51,320 resolutions, but I want to make sure 1297 00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,480 that there's also a resolution adopting 1298 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,880 your property tax impact schedule. So, 1299 00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,200 by the time 1300 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:00,920 we're there, 1301 00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:02,200 you've had your public hearing on your 1302 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,640 tentative budget and you're adopting an 1303 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,200 interim budget one resolution, tax levy 1304 00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:08,840 two resolutions. 1305 00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,520 We This is a best practice. 1306 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:12,640 Nothing is 1307 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,880 It's probably required, but we 1308 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:16,280 >> adopting your tentative budget by 1309 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:17,720 resolution for what? But but the 1310 00:52:17,720 --> 00:52:20,080 tentative budget well uh And the rate. 1311 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,880 but 1312 00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,080 uh the property tax impact schedule 1313 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,400 should also be adopted. And you may have 1314 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,720 refined it, you may have changed it, but 1315 00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:32,320 you should adopt it 1316 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:33,960 at that same 1317 00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,600 uh time. 1318 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,040 And and 1319 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,640 uh that's a good point, Frank. We asked 1320 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,760 that question today in the tax 1321 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,440 commission training. 1322 00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:45,480 Uh we said, "Do they need to adopt the 1323 00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,360 schedule separately?" And the tax 1324 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,080 commission said, "Yes." And we will want 1325 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:50,920 to see evidence that that was adopted 1326 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,280 separately. So, when you say that we 1327 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,400 what we could send to the county to mail 1328 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,560 out, it would be this schedule that we 1329 00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:58,720 would be sending? [clears throat] 1330 00:52:58,720 --> 00:52:59,800 Yes. 1331 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,760 But but by then we would have what they 1332 00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,480 are giving us as our tax rate. So, this 1333 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,240 could change a little bit if the tax 1334 00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,120 rate they come in and it does a little 1335 00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,200 bit differently. Yeah, but they need to 1336 00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,560 have that by June 13th. So, you should 1337 00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,000 be able to adopt what the rate will be 1338 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,440 by June 22nd like you've always had to, 1339 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,840 even if you're not going through truth 1340 00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:21,400 and taxation. 1341 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,760 If you consider sending that schedule, 1342 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,760 something you might want to add to the 1343 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:30,160 schedule is the monthly impact because 1344 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:34,960 many of your residents pay their taxes 1345 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:36,600 in monthly increments with their 1346 00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:39,480 mortgage. And so, it's sometimes nice to 1347 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,280 be able to say in addition we By law you 1348 00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:44,720 have to show the annual impact. But, 1349 00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:47,400 sometimes it's nice to be able to say, 1350 00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,800 "And that annual impact is $8.72 1351 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:51,680 a month." 1352 00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,760 So, that people can understand what that 1353 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,640 monthly impact is. And for me, that's 1354 00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:59,040 the benefit of sending that schedule. If 1355 00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,000 you can get some information in the 1356 00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,360 hands of the public that helps them to 1357 00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,240 better understand what you're doing, 1358 00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:09,000 it might be worth including that. 1359 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:10,440 So, and you'll just need to ask the 1360 00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:13,080 auditor how much it will cost to include 1361 00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,880 that in that mailing. 1362 00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:16,480 Okay? 1363 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:18,320 Thanks for that, Ed Frank. That was That 1364 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,160 was right. We learned that today in the 1365 00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,280 treatment taxation. 1366 00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:24,320 Here are our recommended best practices 1367 00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,800 for June. Um see, we had adopting the 1368 00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:29,760 property tax impact schedule as a 1369 00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,520 recommended best practice, and we'll now 1370 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,880 amend the language to say tax commission 1371 00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:36,480 kind of wants it as a tax commission 1372 00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:37,520 rule, 1373 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,840 um that we'll adopt that. 1374 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,160 And then, um 1375 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:43,520 again, 1376 00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,600 each time in June and that you have, and 1377 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,080 we said this in May, but each time in 1378 00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,400 June that you have the budget on, please 1379 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,000 have that property tax impact schedule 1380 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,600 on the agenda as a separate item, and 1381 00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:58,800 then have hard copies in your meeting. 1382 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,640 The tax The way the tax commission 1383 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,440 answered the question was they said that 1384 00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:06,120 they read the part of the law that says, 1385 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,480 "Make the schedule available." mean you 1386 00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,720 have a hard copy. That's so you can hand 1387 00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:13,240 it to somebody. You're making it 1388 00:55:13,240 --> 00:55:15,240 available to them. 1389 00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:16,600 Okay? 1390 00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:18,120 So, now we're done with the regular 1391 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,280 budget process. We won't see any more 1392 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,880 dark blue. Now, we're just like, if we 1393 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,400 were not raising taxes, we're finished. 1394 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,280 But, because we're raising taxes, we're 1395 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,400 going to continue to go on. 1396 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,440 So, in July, 1397 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,520 sometime before July 22nd, you will 1398 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,000 receive a notice from the county auditor 1399 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,760 with your evaluation and and all of the 1400 00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:43,360 information you need finalizing the 1401 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:45,000 time, date, and place of your public 1402 00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,800 hearing for August. And also, you will 1403 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:50,920 get from them a schedule of all of the 1404 00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:52,760 truth and taxation hearings that are 1405 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:56,000 going on in the county during the year 1406 00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,840 or for for the tax season. 1407 00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,800 You will need to prepare and publicly 1408 00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,960 post your agenda for your August truth 1409 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:05,880 and taxation hearing. We put this in 1410 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,400 July because if you have the hearing 1411 00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,240 early in August, you need to do this in 1412 00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:12,840 July. It needs to be done as part of 1413 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:14,040 July. 1414 00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:15,200 And then there are some date 1415 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,760 requirements. They're not new. Um needs 1416 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:20,440 to be 14 days a minimum of 14 days 1417 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,800 before the scheduled hearing date. And 1418 00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,760 then there there can be it should it I 1419 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,440 can't even emphasize it enough should be 1420 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,720 it it must be. No other agenda items on 1421 00:56:32,720 --> 00:56:34,400 the night of your truth and taxation 1422 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,040 hearing. No other agenda. You know, 1423 00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:39,160 we've had lots of questions. Well, if we 1424 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,480 do this at 6:00, can we have another 1425 00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:44,360 agenda at 7:00 to do general business? 1426 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:46,600 Not if you want a tax increase. You will 1427 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,520 not get certified if you have any other 1428 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,960 business other than the tax increase. 1429 00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,760 Um the tax commission clarified today, 1430 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,080 you can adopt your final budget on the 1431 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,800 night of the tax increase hearing, but 1432 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:03,040 that's it. It's you're you're adopting 1433 00:57:03,040 --> 00:57:04,400 you're having a public hearing on the 1434 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,880 tax increase, you're adopting your final 1435 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:08,680 tax rate, and adopting your final 1436 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,880 budget, and that is it that night. So, 1437 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,840 if it ends up that it's one of your 1438 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,440 regularly scheduled meeting nights, you 1439 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,440 might have to call a special meeting for 1440 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,680 another time if you have other business 1441 00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:23,360 that needs to be conducted. This tripped 1442 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:25,880 so many communities up last year because 1443 00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,640 they they said it wasn't on the same 1444 00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:29,320 agenda. It was completely separate 1445 00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:32,160 agenda. And the tax commission and it's 1446 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,880 not their fault. They have no latitude. 1447 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,120 The The law is what the law is, and the 1448 00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:39,200 law says no other business on that 1449 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:42,400 night. No general business. Um so, that 1450 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:43,680 was really emphasized in the 1451 00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,760 legislation. So, in public hearings 1452 00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:48,440 no allowed comment over the comment. So, 1453 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:49,920 does that mean that we are restricted in 1454 00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:51,320 what we can discuss in that public 1455 00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:52,720 hearing as well? If we're asked about 1456 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:54,640 something and not related to that tax, 1457 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:55,880 do we need to 1458 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:56,400 instruct 1459 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,400 >> That's a good question, lawyer. 1460 00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,030 >> [laughter] 1461 00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:04,680 ยป You're not restricted. If somebody asks 1462 00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:06,400 you a question, I mean, you're there to 1463 00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,120 answer it. It's not on your agenda. Uh 1464 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,360 you have not agendaed it as something 1465 00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:13,200 you would take action on. 1466 00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,520 Certainly a member of the public's going 1467 00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:16,160 to ask you a question. I feel like 1468 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:18,640 you're free to answer it. 1469 00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,800 Maybe off topic. And you as you know, as 1470 00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:22,320 council members, that happens all the 1471 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,360 time. So, uh yeah, sure. But, I think 1472 00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,720 the issue is is it on the formally on 1473 00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,080 the agenda uh that 1474 00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,920 you're going to take action on it. That 1475 00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:34,640 uh 1476 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,840 these other cities that got trouble or 1477 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,640 towns and cities that got in trouble 1478 00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,760 last year were actually action items. 1479 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:42,800 So, 1480 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:43,920 uh yes, 1481 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:45,040 they bring something up, they're 1482 00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,800 certainly free to answer the question 1483 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:49,800 and deal with it. Okay, thank you. 1484 00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:52,160 Um and that's an interesting question to 1485 00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:54,320 me because a lot of the public hearings 1486 00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,640 that I participate in, there isn't 1487 00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,200 dialogue back and forth. The body just 1488 00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,600 accepts the public comment and doesn't 1489 00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,400 make them serve the questions. That's 1490 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,440 your own rules. That's what you decide 1491 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,280 to do. Um and we'll get into this more 1492 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:10,200 when we talk about We've got a deep dive 1493 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,000 on the hearing night, but you do need to 1494 00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,440 let you know, pretty much everyone who 1495 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:16,840 wants to speak needs to be able to 1496 00:59:16,840 --> 00:59:19,040 speak. You can put time limits on it 1497 00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,320 like you normally do for your meetings. 1498 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,360 Um but, you need to allow people to 1499 00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,120 speak at the hearing. And we'll get into 1500 00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:26,840 that a little bit more. 1501 00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:27,840 Okay? 1502 00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,640 Uh next in for July and into August 1503 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,640 for 14 days before the date of your 1504 00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,440 hearing, whatever your hearing date is, 1505 00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,720 you need to post on the front page of 1506 00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,160 your website the county auditor's list 1507 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,600 of all of the hearings. This tripped 1508 00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:48,920 people up last year as well. 1509 00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:52,120 That posting needs to stay on the front 1510 00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:55,160 page of your website until you get your 1511 00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,720 certified rate from the State Tax 1512 00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,640 Commission. That will probably be 1513 00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,760 sometime in September. 1514 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:04,520 So, it will go on. You will not move it. 1515 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,280 You will leave it there. You're going to 1516 01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,280 take a screenshot of it as evidence that 1517 01:00:08,280 --> 01:00:09,760 it was there when you turn in your 1518 01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,360 evidentiary file. Please have a way that 1519 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,440 you can see the date so that you can 1520 01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,680 show the date that it went on. Maybe 1521 01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:18,320 take one in the interim to show that it 1522 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,920 was still there. And then on the date 1523 01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:22,560 that you submit your file, take another 1524 01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:24,960 one to show it's still there. 1525 01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:27,640 Um but it needs to stay and the law the 1526 01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,880 law is very clear. It has to stay until 1527 01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:32,760 the State Tax Commission certifies your 1528 01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:33,880 new rate. 1529 01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,320 And that that could be We're going to 1530 01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,040 talk about that process, but it could be 1531 01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,240 into September. 1532 01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:42,760 So, in August uh your you need to at 1533 01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,880 least 14 days before the August hearing 1534 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,320 date, you need to create a notice in the 1535 01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,320 Truth in Taxation system. And that's the 1536 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,400 notice that you're going to post lots of 1537 01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,880 different places. Um you need to post it 1538 01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,960 It's a class A notice. Uh your clerk 1539 01:00:57,960 --> 01:01:02,520 recorder should know what that means and how you post a class A notice. But 1540 01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,400 it needs to be on the Utah Public Notice 1541 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:06,040 website. It needs to be on your 1542 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,720 municipality's website. It needs to be 1543 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,840 in a physical location where you meet. 1544 01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:14,480 So, here you would post it there. And 1545 01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:17,720 then you post in Utah Legals. Um there's 1546 01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:23,680 no longer a requirement that you post in newspaper. However, our experience in 1547 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,600 working with Utah Legals is that they 1548 01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,960 often require you to post in a newspaper 1549 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:30,960 so that you post up there's. 1550 01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,240 Um Frank has a best practice that you do 1551 01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,800 not wait until 14 days and he and I 1552 01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:38,520 argued over this last year because I 1553 01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:40,800 thought he was being a nervous Nellie. 1554 01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,440 Um and it was a good thing that he that 1555 01:01:43,440 --> 01:01:45,640 we tried to get that in 21 days in 1556 01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,920 advance because it was a weekly the 1557 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:50,200 community we were working with they only 1558 01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:52,520 their their Utah Legals in their 1559 01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,720 community only goes weekly. And um they 1560 01:01:55,720 --> 01:01:58,800 messed up the first one. And so because 1561 01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,960 we had been 21 days out we had time to 1562 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,640 correct the error. 1563 01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:04,400 Uh 1564 01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:06,240 don't cut it so close that you don't 1565 01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:07,960 have time because if you miss this 1566 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:09,240 you're done. 1567 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:11,960 There isn't there there in the law this 1568 01:02:11,960 --> 01:02:13,160 year 1569 01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:15,200 there is a little bit of grace for the 1570 01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,440 things that are in aqua for the things 1571 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:20,400 that are brand new in 2026. There is no 1572 01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,560 grace on any of the other stuff that's 1573 01:02:22,560 --> 01:02:24,720 always been in the law for us. 1574 01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:28,600 So don't don't cut it to the edge of the 1575 01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,720 time. And and again that's airing on 1576 01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:33,840 transparency you're giving more notice 1577 01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,760 not less notice but also give yourself 1578 01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,880 that pivot time. When we woke up I woke 1579 01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:41,720 up at like 5:00 in the morning and he 1580 01:02:41,720 --> 01:02:43,400 said will you go check and make sure the 1581 01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:45,480 ad got posted and I pulled it up I'm 1582 01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:46,360 like 1583 01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,120 it's not there. 1584 01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,160 Uh you know and so we had to scramble 1585 01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,600 but then we had a week and then the next 1586 01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,280 week when we woke up early and it was 1587 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,160 there you know we were doing the Snoopy 1588 01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:58,440 dance the ad was there and we were able 1589 01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,520 to continue with our client moving 1590 01:03:00,520 --> 01:03:02,360 forward in the process. 1591 01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,800 So that's just a horror story but give 1592 01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:06,960 yourself time to pivot. But as everyone 1593 01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,360 knows now in an open meeting on the 1594 01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,120 record Frank she said you were right. 1595 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:11,183 Oh. 1596 01:03:11,183 --> 01:03:11,840 >> [laughter] 1597 01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:15,630 >> Thank you counselor. 1598 01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:16,840 So 1599 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:19,320 uh again we talked about this posting 1600 01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:21,560 that needs to be on your website. We put 1601 01:03:21,560 --> 01:03:23,840 it again in the August recommendation 1602 01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:25,800 because if your hearing's later in 1603 01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,720 August, you'll probably do the posting 1604 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,040 in August, not in July. And we just 1605 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:31,400 wanted to make sure there was no 1606 01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:32,800 ambiguity. 1607 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:36,280 Now, 24 hours before the hearing, you 1608 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,280 need to post instructions for virtual 1609 01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:40,880 participation in the hearing on your 1610 01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,040 entity's website. I've been working on 1611 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:45,600 this today. 1612 01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:47,360 It's shocking to me how many of our 1613 01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:50,520 communities do not have a way for people 1614 01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,680 to participate virtually. So, they can 1615 01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,640 watch virtually, but they can't 1616 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,160 participate virtually. They have to be 1617 01:03:58,160 --> 01:04:00,200 able to participate virtually to meet 1618 01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:01,560 the law. 1619 01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:04,200 And so, if you don't currently, you've 1620 01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:07,280 got time. It's We're only in May, but 1621 01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:09,320 you've got to be able to have people be 1622 01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,560 able to participate virtually, and we 1623 01:04:12,560 --> 01:04:14,960 learned on the training today by phone 1624 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:16,040 call. 1625 01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:18,200 So, it's not just I click a link and I 1626 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:20,480 participate. They also want to have a 1627 01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,120 phone number that people can call into 1628 01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,040 and participate by phone call as well. 1629 01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,840 And we need to allow people to submit 1630 01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:31,720 comments before the hearing, and if we 1631 01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:34,000 get written comments before the hearing, 1632 01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:35,640 we need to get them into the public 1633 01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,880 record at the hearing to make sure that 1634 01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:40,120 the council's aware of those comments. 1635 01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:43,320 So, I don't know if that impacts you. I 1636 01:04:43,320 --> 01:04:45,560 know it impacts some other people we're 1637 01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:48,040 working with, um that they do not 1638 01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,560 currently allow virtual participation. 1639 01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,680 They allow people to watch on YouTube, 1640 01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,880 on the Zoom, but it's not a two-way 1641 01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,760 street. It's not a oh, you can comment, 1642 01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,640 or you know, we can turn to you and take 1643 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:01,680 your virtual comment. So, we've got to 1644 01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:03,840 figure out how to do that. 1645 01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,680 By August. And And if you have to figure 1646 01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:08,360 out how to do that, you're not alone. 1647 01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:10,560 And I sent a a note into the League of 1648 01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:12,920 Cities and Towns today to let them know, 1649 01:05:12,920 --> 01:05:15,080 I think there might be a tripwire. We've 1650 01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:16,560 got to We've got to figure out how we 1651 01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:19,240 help our communities through this one. 1652 01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,720 Okay? And then, on the assigned August 1653 01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,240 date, you'll conduct your Truth in 1654 01:05:23,240 --> 01:05:25,000 Taxation hearing on the proposed 1655 01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:27,200 increase, and we've talked about that. 1656 01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:28,600 Um you're going to state the dollar 1657 01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,200 amount, you're going to explain the 1658 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,280 additional of tax revenue, you're going 1659 01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,080 to explain the reasons for the proposed 1660 01:05:34,080 --> 01:05:36,480 increase, and you'll include the 1661 01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,080 intended use of the revenue. 1662 01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,640 Now, this is what's kind of funny. This 1663 01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,680 is basically your property tax impact 1664 01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:44,920 schedule. 1665 01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,320 What is all And this is green. This has 1666 01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,880 always been required. We've always had 1667 01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:51,800 to do this as part of Truth in Taxation 1668 01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,240 in August. And so, that's where the 1669 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,400 thought process came from during the 1670 01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,920 legislative session. Is when we were 1671 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:00,760 looking at it, I don't know if you were 1672 01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,640 following the session, but during the 1673 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:05,200 session, the legislation started out 1674 01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:06,840 that you would create two complete 1675 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,800 different budgets. One with a tax 1676 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:11,160 increase, one without. And the League of 1677 01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:13,200 Cities and Towns and us, but you know, 1678 01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:14,800 as contractors of the League, we were 1679 01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,040 arguing that's just too hard on our 1680 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:19,680 communities to have to do two complete 1681 01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:21,440 different budgets. 1682 01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:23,080 Um and they said, "Then come up with a 1683 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:25,360 solution." And it was the fact that we 1684 01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:27,960 already had to do this. We said, "Why 1685 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,800 don't we just make it a schedule and put 1686 01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:32,480 it at the beginning of the process, 1687 01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,160 because we have to do it in August 1688 01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:35,560 anyway?" 1689 01:06:35,560 --> 01:06:37,920 And so, that's that's kind of where that 1690 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,040 idea was born from. It's not a new 1691 01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:42,600 requirement, the schedule. You had to do 1692 01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:44,800 it anyway. We're just having you do it 4 1693 01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:46,320 months earlier 1694 01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,400 than when you had to turn it in. 1695 01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:50,040 So, now let's talk about the night of 1696 01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,720 the hearing. The hearing must be at or 1697 01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:54,960 after 6:00 p.m. 1698 01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:57,680 Um the hearing uh may not overlap with 1699 01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:59,640 any other entity's hearing. The county 1700 01:06:59,640 --> 01:07:01,640 auditor will make sure of that. They 1701 01:07:01,640 --> 01:07:03,280 will make sure that they balance all of 1702 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:04,880 those out. 1703 01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,280 This is new. It may not be on the same 1704 01:07:07,280 --> 01:07:09,400 date as a public meeting for uh 1705 01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,440 addressing any other kind of business. 1706 01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,680 This is so explicit this year. It was 1707 01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,080 Some people thought it was a little gray 1708 01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:18,520 last year. We didn't think it was gray. 1709 01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,400 It's super explicit this year. They did, 1710 01:07:21,400 --> 01:07:23,960 however, say you could have it on the 1711 01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:26,120 night of a regular meeting. It's just 1712 01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:27,440 that then you can't do any other 1713 01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:29,400 business that night. If you have it if 1714 01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,600 you, you know, choose to ask the auditor 1715 01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:33,840 to have it on that night. 1716 01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:35,960 And then printed copies of your public 1717 01:07:35,960 --> 01:07:37,720 property tax impact schedule should be 1718 01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:41,640 made available at the hearing as well. 1719 01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,640 The only items allowed on the hearing 1720 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:45,920 agenda, as we talked about before, are 1721 01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:47,560 related to the hearing and then the 1722 01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:49,840 final budget adoption. So, it'll be your 1723 01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,760 hearing, it'll be adopting your final 1724 01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,040 tax rate, and it'll be your final budget 1725 01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:58,400 adoption. If you don't adopt your final 1726 01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:00,920 budget that night, in that meeting, you 1727 01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:03,680 need to state when you're going to. 1728 01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:05,720 Okay? You don't have to adopt it that 1729 01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:07,920 night. If you If after the hearing you 1730 01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:09,680 just say, "We're not ready. We're not 1731 01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:12,240 ready to adopt the final budget." 1732 01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:14,160 Uh you need to tell people when you are, 1733 01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:17,960 but it has to be done by September 1st. 1734 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:19,480 Um 1735 01:08:19,480 --> 01:08:21,080 The These are just talking about the 1736 01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:22,640 things that you need to explain and 1737 01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:25,200 again, basically, it's your property tax 1738 01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,839 impact schedule. It's everything on that schedule is what's 1739 01:08:28,839 --> 01:08:30,920 required to be stated in that August 1740 01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:32,600 hearing anyway. 1741 01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,160 We've talked about the public must be 1742 01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:36,759 able to participate both in person and 1743 01:08:36,759 --> 01:08:38,640 online. 1744 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,040 And by telephone, we learned today. 1745 01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,400 Call. They need to be able to call. And 1746 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:45,640 then, if your county auditor, if you 1747 01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:47,319 have other hearings in the county, if 1748 01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:49,319 the county auditor produced that list of 1749 01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:51,132 the hearings, you need to have 1750 01:08:51,132 --> 01:08:52,799 [clears throat] that list We've already 1751 01:08:52,799 --> 01:08:54,279 talked about it being on your website. 1752 01:08:54,279 --> 01:08:55,839 We need to have it available that night 1753 01:08:55,839 --> 01:08:58,319 at the hearing. Question. 1754 01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:01,000 Just looking at the worst the scenario. 1755 01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:02,880 So, uh 1756 01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:06,400 we don't participate now online in that. 1757 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:09,080 If we do everything in our power to make 1758 01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:11,120 it work and there's a failure that 1759 01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:15,240 night, what happens? Because it's blue 1760 01:09:15,240 --> 01:09:17,359 because that online participation is in 1761 01:09:17,359 --> 01:09:19,240 blue, I think that there's a little bit 1762 01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:21,480 of give there, but it has to be a good 1763 01:09:21,480 --> 01:09:23,359 faith effort. But, I think we're going 1764 01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:25,847 to figure out a way to help people cross 1765 01:09:25,847 --> 01:09:28,000 [clears throat] that finish line because 1766 01:09:28,000 --> 01:09:31,279 you're not alone. Big communities don't 1767 01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:33,680 have virtual participation. I mean, that 1768 01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,640 I I was doing some sampling today 1769 01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:38,839 um because one of our clients, they 1770 01:09:38,839 --> 01:09:41,520 don't do that. And so, I called other 1771 01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:43,279 communities and and I would And that's 1772 01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:44,680 why I sent it in to the league and I 1773 01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:47,200 said, "If our larger communities don't 1774 01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:49,480 allow virtual participation, I can't 1775 01:09:49,480 --> 01:09:51,520 imagine that this isn't going to be a 1776 01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:54,080 problem for some of our smaller." So, as 1777 01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:55,800 you mentioned, they can call in by 1778 01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,040 phone. So, that could be We'll have that 1779 01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:01,360 also option. So, if worst case scenario 1780 01:10:01,360 --> 01:10:03,880 it doesn't work, then they still should 1781 01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:05,880 be able to have that ability to call on 1782 01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:07,640 the phone that we will have available 1783 01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,200 there that I'm assuming then is on 1784 01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:12,280 speaker when they call in ask a question 1785 01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:14,920 Yep. Or make their comment. Yep. Okay. 1786 01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,360 Yep. And you you can still put all of 1787 01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,280 that, you know, all time restrictions 1788 01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,320 around all of that 1789 01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:23,960 like you would any normal hearing. 1790 01:10:23,960 --> 01:10:28,110 Frank? 1791 01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:30,520 So, we have not had an opportunity to 1792 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,760 look at this late. This is a a very uh a 1793 01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:35,240 different bill. There was 236 and then 1794 01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:36,640 there was another bill. So, this Senate 1795 01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:39,600 bill 238 Yeah, 238. Uh 1796 01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:40,520 that 1797 01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,440 has these provisions in it. And so, uh 1798 01:10:44,440 --> 01:10:47,800 we're going to explore this further. Uh 1799 01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:51,240 we did not anticipate the our 1800 01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,040 all these communities 1801 01:10:53,040 --> 01:10:55,880 having this issue. So, we will get back 1802 01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:59,040 and Terry will get back to you. Uh 1803 01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:00,720 but we need we need 1804 01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:02,240 an opportunity to look at this. We're 1805 01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:04,480 going to look at it in the next few days 1806 01:11:04,480 --> 01:11:07,320 and see and talk to the tax commission. 1807 01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,160 You know, today they mentioned the phone 1808 01:11:09,160 --> 01:11:10,040 and 1809 01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:11,680 I was sitting there 1810 01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:13,680 wondering whether if it provided 1811 01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:16,000 comments, would that be adequate. 1812 01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:16,680 Uh 1813 01:11:16,680 --> 01:11:17,800 but then they then they brought up the 1814 01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:19,360 phone. So, 1815 01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,040 uh we need to explore that. We will get 1816 01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,040 back to you on this issue in the next 1817 01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:25,680 few days. One thing is a note on 1818 01:11:25,680 --> 01:11:26,960 just encourage you to take that when you 1819 01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,160 start professionally and do learning and 1820 01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:30,440 development trainings and I do them 1821 01:11:30,440 --> 01:11:32,680 virtually for hundreds of people. 1822 01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,280 Um I don't know of a way or software 1823 01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,280 that allows us to restrict multiple 1824 01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:39,800 comments. Uh so, if we're publicly 1825 01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:40,720 you're allowed to get up and make 1826 01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:42,200 comments and you get 3 minutes, but 1827 01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,200 that's what you get. On the phone you 1828 01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:45,440 would get comments, but you get 3 1829 01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:47,040 minutes, that's what you get. But if 1830 01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:48,280 you're virtual and you're sending in a 1831 01:11:48,280 --> 01:11:50,000 bunch of chats or spamming the chat or 1832 01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:51,720 whatever that, you know, we have to have 1833 01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:53,840 somebody monitoring those questions and 1834 01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:57,320 how do we um regulate 1835 01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,720 those comments coming in and making sure 1836 01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:01,280 that it's not just kind of filibustering 1837 01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,280 the meeting and gives an opportunity for 1838 01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:04,720 us to make sure we're addressing what's 1839 01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,480 being asked, but also holding people to 1840 01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:08,360 the restriction of if they were talking 1841 01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:09,720 in person, they'd have 3 minutes, but 1842 01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:11,040 they could type as many questions as 1843 01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,280 they want. So, I know in instance of 1844 01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:17,960 Zoom that the league uses, they can do 1845 01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,800 things. They can mute somebody, so they 1846 01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:22,280 can give them their 3 minutes and mute 1847 01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:24,200 them, and they can also completely turn 1848 01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,640 the chat off. And I would assume that's 1849 01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,320 what you would do, is you would say, 1850 01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,480 "We're going to turn the chat off. Chat 1851 01:12:30,480 --> 01:12:32,440 is not the way we're taking the 1852 01:12:32,440 --> 01:12:33,800 comments. 1853 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:35,200 Uh if you want to submit written 1854 01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:37,800 comments, here's the email address. 1855 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:39,760 Submit them through that." 1856 01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:43,400 Um but I but I think So, so just the see 1857 01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:45,480 you know, using Zoom that way, but I 1858 01:12:45,480 --> 01:12:48,240 think the problem is it's an expensive 1859 01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:50,960 license. And so, I I that's what some of 1860 01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:52,720 our communities have faced. like one of 1861 01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:54,400 the city managers I talked to today 1862 01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,640 said, "Oh yeah, we allowed all of that 1863 01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,360 during COVID, but then people weren't 1864 01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:01,840 using it after COVID, so we dropped that 1865 01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,000 licensing as a budgetary savings 1866 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:05,280 approach." 1867 01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,320 So so as Frank said, this literally was 1868 01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,280 unfolding in the hour and a half before 1869 01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,800 we came here after the tax commission 1870 01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:15,840 hearing, and so we'll follow up with 1871 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:17,880 you. We've got time to get this figured 1872 01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:20,280 out as communities before August. 1873 01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:22,040 Okay. 1874 01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:24,440 Um and and so we talked about that list. 1875 01:13:24,440 --> 01:13:26,640 You've got to have that list available. 1876 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:30,040 And then uh finally, you need to provide 1877 01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,480 all interested persons the opportunity 1878 01:13:32,480 --> 01:13:37,000 to speak on the proposed tax increase. 1879 01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,440 All right. Oh, and then we talked about 1880 01:13:39,440 --> 01:13:40,640 that. If you're not going to make your 1881 01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:42,360 budget decision that night, you need to 1882 01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:44,400 state in that meeting when you're going 1883 01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:48,800 to when the next meeting is that you'll make the budget decision. 1884 01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,880 So then into September. So by September 1885 01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,640 1st, you need to adopt an ordinance or 1886 01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:56,880 resolution implementing your new rate 1887 01:13:56,880 --> 01:13:59,560 that exceeds the certified tax rate, and 1888 01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,800 adopt an ordinance or resolution 1889 01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:03,400 approving your final budget for the 1890 01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:05,400 fiscal year. Now, you don't have to 1891 01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:07,520 re-adopt your uh impact statement 1892 01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:09,640 because the revenue now is in your final 1893 01:14:09,640 --> 01:14:11,320 budget. It's part of the final budget 1894 01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:12,680 that you adopt. 1895 01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:16,600 Um and then you need to send copies of 1896 01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,000 those ordinances, and there are 1897 01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:20,200 different things throughout the process 1898 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:21,800 that you need to send them to the tax 1899 01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,000 commission, and times that you need to 1900 01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:25,920 go in and you need to update things in 1901 01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:28,400 the system, and that schedule on the 1902 01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,520 League of Cities and Towns website will 1903 01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,880 help walk you through like, "Okay, we 1904 01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:34,640 need to go in and put the rate in now. 1905 01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:36,560 We need to go do these things." And the 1906 01:14:36,560 --> 01:14:38,400 tax commission will help you with that. 1907 01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:40,680 Their checklist is going to tell you the 1908 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,760 things that you need to be doing, when 1909 01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:45,520 you need to be updating their system. 1910 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:48,160 But once all of that is done, within 7 1911 01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:50,600 days of adopting your budget, you have 1912 01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:52,960 to send your package of evidence to the 1913 01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:55,400 tax commission and the county auditor. 1914 01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:57,240 And they told us that today. We need to 1915 01:14:57,240 --> 01:14:59,280 update this slide now because it does 1916 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:01,480 need I asked the question. I said, "Does 1917 01:15:01,480 --> 01:15:02,920 it need to go to the county auditor?" 1918 01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,240 And they said, "Yes." Because the county 1919 01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:08,760 auditor also can not by law look at it 1920 01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,160 and certify that they helped the tax 1921 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:12,960 commission say, "Yes, they met all of 1922 01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:15,160 the requirements from the county auditor 1923 01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:16,600 perspective." 1924 01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,240 Um and so you'll submit all of that. 1925 01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:22,200 That's why I think you want your date 1926 01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:26,400 earlier in August because if you don't do this until September 1927 01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:30,400 1st, they then have 30 days after you 1928 01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,560 submit to certify your rate. They may 1929 01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:36,560 not take the 30 days, but if they did 1930 01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,280 and you didn't turn it in it like if you 1931 01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,360 adopt Say you adopt on the 30th 1932 01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:45,040 uh or the 31st of August, you take your 1933 01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:47,720 7 days, you're now into September and 1934 01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,000 they take their 30 days, you could be 1935 01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:54,480 October before they certify your rate 1936 01:15:54,480 --> 01:15:56,880 and and you're home to the races and 1937 01:15:56,880 --> 01:15:59,840 ready to go. And so for for the people 1938 01:15:59,840 --> 01:16:01,720 we're working with, we're asking for 1939 01:16:01,720 --> 01:16:04,800 early August dates even though it means 1940 01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:06,520 we're going to have to do, you know, 1941 01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,720 some advertising work during kind of 1942 01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:11,640 what's that peak peak uh holiday season 1943 01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:13,080 in July, 1944 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,520 um we think it's worth the trade-off so 1945 01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,080 that we can get the process like 1946 01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,440 front-loaded and get the certified rate 1947 01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:22,000 back from the tax commission as early as 1948 01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,760 possible. What date did you all put in 1949 01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:28,120 to the tax or to the county auditor? 1950 01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:30,320 I believe it was the first Thursday in 1951 01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:31,840 August. I can probably look it up real 1952 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,800 quick. I'm pretty sure when we discussed 1953 01:16:33,800 --> 01:16:36,400 it that we had that and it was our first 1954 01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,640 meeting in August, but I can look. 1955 01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,920 Perfect. No no need to look, but that's 1956 01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:43,400 just to know I think that's wise because 1957 01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:45,520 it keeps the process moving along. 1958 01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,120 Hopefully, you'll get that date. It just 1959 01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,240 depends on how they have to balance 1960 01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:51,760 against everybody else. 1961 01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,120 Okay? And then again, you go back in and 1962 01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,120 you update the entity information in the 1963 01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,600 certified tax rate system. And then 1964 01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:01,560 there is a form PT-800 1965 01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:03,480 that you will fill out and you will send 1966 01:17:03,480 --> 01:17:05,600 to the tax commission and you can send 1967 01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:08,080 it with the resolution that adopts the 1968 01:17:08,080 --> 01:17:10,840 tax rate. You can send the In fact, when 1969 01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:12,520 we write the resolutions, when Frank 1970 01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:15,760 writes them, he actually authorizes the 1971 01:17:15,760 --> 01:17:18,200 signing of the PT-800 form in the 1972 01:17:18,200 --> 01:17:20,000 resolution so that the council has 1973 01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,840 authorized that that can be signed. And 1974 01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:24,840 I I looked up here, Carrie, and it was 1975 01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:27,080 we set that for August 6th. Okay, 1976 01:17:27,080 --> 01:17:28,160 perfect. 1977 01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:29,960 So so yeah, your advertising, you'll 1978 01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:31,680 just back up from that, you'll be 1979 01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:33,720 advertising in July. 1980 01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,280 Um and then within 30 days of your 1981 01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:38,880 adoption of your final budget, you just 1982 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:40,320 do just like you would in a normal 1983 01:17:40,320 --> 01:17:41,960 process and you submit that to the state 1984 01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:43,360 auditor. 1985 01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:46,600 So uh just the few things looking ahead, 1986 01:17:46,600 --> 01:17:48,560 avail yourself of the tax commission 1987 01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,960 checklist if you haven't already. 1988 01:17:50,960 --> 01:17:53,520 Um I I spent a lot of time with the tax 1989 01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:55,520 commission last week in Wayne County 1990 01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:57,520 when we were doing this training. 1991 01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,160 Their staff want you to succeed. 1992 01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:03,280 They do not want to have to not certify. 1993 01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:05,160 Um and so they've really put a lot of 1994 01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:07,000 time and effort into being very 1995 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,680 comprehensive in their checklist so that 1996 01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:11,960 you can get through the process. 1997 01:18:11,960 --> 01:18:12,680 Um 1998 01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:15,920 in that, however, they have very limited 1999 01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:18,120 authority. They have very limited 2000 01:18:18,120 --> 01:18:20,600 ability to say, "Oh yeah, they meant 2001 01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:22,760 that. Oh yeah, that's what they meant to 2002 01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,280 do." Uh that that was taken away from 2003 01:18:25,280 --> 01:18:28,800 them last year. And so you really have 2004 01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,000 to be, you know, super 2005 01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:33,680 uh detail-oriented on this. And then in 2006 01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:35,800 your minutes, really get things in those 2007 01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,320 minutes. Otherwise, as your evidence, 2008 01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:39,600 you're going to need to tell them where 2009 01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,080 the timestamps are so that they can go 2010 01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:43,560 listen to it because they don't want to 2011 01:18:43,560 --> 01:18:45,240 have to listen to your whole meeting. 2012 01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:46,280 They want to be able to go to the 2013 01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:48,240 timestamp of where 2014 01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:51,040 the information is. They are doing some 2015 01:18:51,040 --> 01:18:52,600 trainings. 2016 01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,320 We like I said, we went to one today. I 2017 01:18:55,320 --> 01:18:57,040 can let you know if I hear of another 2018 01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:58,720 one. Today's was pretty good. I thought 2019 01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:00,400 they did a really nice job talking 2020 01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:02,600 through what they're expecting, but they 2021 01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,240 really leaned hard into the checklist 2022 01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:07,440 and said that people should use that. 2023 01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:09,120 And then the supplemental support that 2024 01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:11,640 we have for you. And then the one-year 2025 01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,280 grace period is for the things in this 2026 01:19:14,280 --> 01:19:17,200 slide deck that are in aqua only. And 2027 01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,440 what that means is mayor, exactly what 2028 01:19:19,440 --> 01:19:21,960 you said. If the tax commission looks at 2029 01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,320 it and says, "You know what? They They 2030 01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:26,440 really did the spirit of what we were 2031 01:19:26,440 --> 01:19:29,320 after, but they had a technology fail or 2032 01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:32,000 they had something happen." Then there's 2033 01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:34,080 that little bit of flexibility, but 2034 01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:37,240 there is zero flexibility on anything 2035 01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:39,640 that's a prior requirement. So, it's 2036 01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:41,080 only the things that are new 2037 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:42,560 requirements 2038 01:19:42,560 --> 01:19:44,720 with this year's 2039 01:19:44,720 --> 01:19:46,560 lots of legislation. 2040 01:19:46,560 --> 01:19:49,400 And then I always end with our lawyer's 2041 01:19:49,400 --> 01:19:51,760 fine print that's not so fine. None of 2042 01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,040 this is legal advice. Lean on your 2043 01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,280 attorney. Your attorney might have you 2044 01:19:56,280 --> 01:19:58,320 do things different. 2045 01:19:58,320 --> 01:20:00,200 Frank does things, you know, with a lot 2046 01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:02,680 of resolutions and ordinances. Other 2047 01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,160 attorneys may choose to do motions on 2048 01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:07,680 some of it, but we think the best 2049 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,520 practice is that that way Frank Frank 2050 01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,200 does it because then we've created the 2051 01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,040 record. And so that body of evidence, if 2052 01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:17,680 we can put it, you know, Frank Frank has 2053 01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:19,880 in the resolution for one of our clients 2054 01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:21,920 we're working with now, we had them 2055 01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,560 actually develop their purpose statement 2056 01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:26,680 of why they're doing the tax increase 2057 01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:28,960 and we put it as an appendix in the 2058 01:20:28,960 --> 01:20:31,360 resolution. So that it's just And then 2059 01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:33,200 they stood up and you were there. You 2060 01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:34,920 can I I wasn't at that meeting. Tell 2061 01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,600 them how that meeting went. 2062 01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:39,880 I had to drive down to Wayne County, so 2063 01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:41,800 he had to cover the meeting. Boy, she's 2064 01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:43,880 really building you up tonight. 2065 01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:49,320 I'm pretty impressed with you. Now, they read the statement into the record. 2066 01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:51,840 The purpose statement of theirs was much 2067 01:20:51,840 --> 01:20:53,120 longer 2068 01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:56,200 uh than yours would be. Uh I can see it. 2069 01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:58,720 You're focused on primarily one issue, 2070 01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,280 that's public safety. Yours is a lot 2071 01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:03,160 easier to see. So, 2072 01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:05,960 uh maybe their their purpose statement 2073 01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:07,640 was much uh 2074 01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:09,560 had different departments and different 2075 01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:11,640 issues, but they read in the record. 2076 01:21:11,640 --> 01:21:14,040 Yeah, I believe in resolutions because 2077 01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:16,440 we control that the the 2078 01:21:16,440 --> 01:21:17,000 uh 2079 01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,520 discussion and the the narrative uh 2080 01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:22,680 and the tax commission. Uh 2081 01:21:22,680 --> 01:21:24,440 they don't want to be looking into your 2082 01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:27,040 minutes and uh they and then go look for 2083 01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,160 the recordings. They can see what we've 2084 01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:31,040 done. Uh 2085 01:21:31,040 --> 01:21:33,640 that the sooner they they can see that, 2086 01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:35,040 the sooner you get your tax rate 2087 01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:36,200 certified. 2088 01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:40,960 So, I I don't mind putting it piece by piece in a resolution. That's 2089 01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,360 just the way I operate, but 2090 01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,680 you're not required to do that. But your 2091 01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:47,240 purpose statement should is very 2092 01:21:47,240 --> 01:21:49,480 straightforward. I I read it. Uh it's 2093 01:21:49,480 --> 01:21:51,160 pretty straightforward, so 2094 01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:52,720 you can have it a little easier than 2095 01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:54,560 most. 2096 01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:56,320 And just so you know, Frank was a 2097 01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,360 10-year city attorney for Salt Lake and 2098 01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:00,400 a 20-year city attorney for Murray. 2099 01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:02,120 So, when I say he's writing all the 2100 01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:03,680 resolutions, I would not attempt to 2101 01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:05,640 write the resolutions. He does it 2102 01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:07,000 himself. 2103 01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:09,440 Okay? So, that's the end of my training. 2104 01:22:09,440 --> 01:22:11,720 If there are any questions uh that we 2105 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:14,240 haven't asked along the way, I'm well 2106 01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:17,520 happy to take any. So, I when you asked 2107 01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:18,880 since I went back and did a little 2108 01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:20,400 figuring here about most of them do 2109 01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:22,560 about 14% 2110 01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:24,200 of their general fund. 2111 01:22:24,200 --> 01:22:25,840 >> That's average. Yeah. 2112 01:22:25,840 --> 01:22:28,240 >> So, I figured ours and just for weighing 2113 01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:30,600 those listening and those here, so our 2114 01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:33,480 general fund anticipated budget is 2115 01:22:33,480 --> 01:22:37,910 $4,192.50. 2116 01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:38,840 Or 2117 01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:42,230 yes, $190,150. 2118 01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,560 Currently, we have 7% 2119 01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:48,440 of our property tax 2120 01:22:48,440 --> 01:22:50,200 is in the general fund. In the general 2121 01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:52,760 fund because we get this year we'll 2122 01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:56,400 probably get around $290,000 2123 01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:59,640 per year tax. With our anticipation 2124 01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:01,640 of this, which is on our form, of 2125 01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,320 getting $428,000, 2126 01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:07,400 that will bring us to 10%. 2127 01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,080 So so still below average for the job 2128 01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:12,200 cities we're at. Yes, we're still below 2129 01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:14,840 average. And and in my humble policy 2130 01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,200 opinion, moving in the right direction. 2131 01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:19,720 Cuz I don't like to see us so low in 2132 01:23:19,720 --> 01:23:22,400 property taxes that I like I said, I 2133 01:23:22,400 --> 01:23:24,640 like to get a little closer to those 2134 01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:27,520 services that we can't pull back on if 2135 01:23:27,520 --> 01:23:30,200 we have the economy constricted on us. 2136 01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:33,480 And so every other tax that we have is 2137 01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:36,240 more volatile. It goes up and down with 2138 01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:38,800 economic cycle. Property tax is the one 2139 01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:40,840 that stays pretty stable for us. Yeah, 2140 01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:42,597 carry with the 2141 01:23:42,597 --> 01:23:43,480 >> [clears throat] 2142 01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:45,000 >> I like how you talked about putting the 2143 01:23:45,000 --> 01:23:47,520 monthly impact because when we tell our 2144 01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:49,760 residents we're looking at a proposed 2145 01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:51,720 47% increase, 2146 01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:53,640 that's got a sticker value. But when we 2147 01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:55,960 tell them it's $3.27 2148 01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:58,520 per month to be able to have access to 2149 01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,680 those six new officers, it may make that 2150 01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:02,640 a little easier to swallow. 2151 01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:04,360 You know, that's a really good point and 2152 01:24:04,360 --> 01:24:06,640 I should have mentioned this. Um 2153 01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:08,480 one of the things and in the League of 2154 01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:10,200 Cities and Towns, I think you saw down 2155 01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:12,040 in St. George, they've created some 2156 01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,320 training videos on property taxes for 2157 01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:16,800 you. And part of that is showing the 2158 01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:20,320 public that when we talk about a 47% 2159 01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:22,240 property tax increase, We're talking 2160 01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:27,080 about 47% of probably 8% of the total 2161 01:24:27,080 --> 01:24:29,240 property tax. And so, it's showing that 2162 01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:31,760 whole bill so that they can see that you 2163 01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:33,800 don't take most of it, but the 2164 01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:40,400 percentage feels so large because it's based on your little sliver of the 2165 01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:41,720 pie. 2166 01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:43,440 Um and you may want to figure that out. 2167 01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,360 Unfortunately, you may not put that on 2168 01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:48,200 that statement. We had or on the 2169 01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:51,000 schedule. We had that on a schedule and 2170 01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:54,080 the tax commission said, "You You That 2171 01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,160 is an assumption because you don't know 2172 01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:58,560 what every other entity is doing. And 2173 01:24:58,560 --> 01:25:01,240 so, you don't know in that year what 2174 01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:03,840 that slice of the pie is." But you could 2175 01:25:03,840 --> 01:25:06,800 say in other materials, 2176 01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:08,360 you know, you could you could have some 2177 01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:10,840 other materials produced that say, "You 2178 01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:12,760 know, we only take of your total 2179 01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:16,440 property tax bill, we only get 7 or 8 or 2180 01:25:16,440 --> 01:25:19,080 9% of it." Whatever that is, you can 2181 01:25:19,080 --> 01:25:23,000 look at it and see. Um and that 47% is 2182 01:25:23,000 --> 01:25:25,520 just of that little slice. But yes, 2183 01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:27,000 that's why we like getting it down to 2184 01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:29,360 that monthly number because then 2185 01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:32,280 people Otherwise, they think it's 47% of 2186 01:25:32,280 --> 01:25:33,960 $2,000 2187 01:25:33,960 --> 01:25:36,720 rather than 47% of the little slice that 2188 01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:38,800 you get. 2189 01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:41,200 Karen, um actually this year too in the 2190 01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,160 legislature, as I recall, they actually 2191 01:25:44,160 --> 01:25:46,120 had a bill that they were looking into 2192 01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:49,720 that was going to limit cities to a 5% 2193 01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,680 Yeah. annual bump in property taxes for 2194 01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:55,160 our city 2195 01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:56,920 wouldn't amount to We couldn't even buy 2196 01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:59,080 popcorn with that. Well, and I think 2197 01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:01,240 that's why we have 50 communities going 2198 01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:03,440 through this because I think that people 2199 01:26:03,440 --> 01:26:05,480 understand that the reality of that 2200 01:26:05,480 --> 01:26:09,160 legislation coming back is likely. 2201 01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,280 And so, they need to get their property 2202 01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:14,000 tax kind of right-sized so that if they 2203 01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,120 then are limited in any given year to 2204 01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:17,960 5%. 2205 01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:20,240 It's it's more doable. If you're a 2206 01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:22,000 community like some of those that I 2207 01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:24,680 showed you that are less than 1% reliant 2208 01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:27,240 on property tax, if you if we get 2209 01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:29,640 limited to 5%, that community will never 2210 01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:32,320 catch up. They will never be able to 2211 01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:34,320 have property tax paid for their 2212 01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:38,360 services in any kind of a holistic way. 2213 01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:40,720 So, I that's a very good point and that 2214 01:26:40,720 --> 01:26:42,560 was a piece of legislation that didn't 2215 01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:45,080 pass this year. We fully expect it to be 2216 01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,800 back. So, it it closed? 2217 01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:50,640 Um yeah, it was talked about deep into 2218 01:26:50,640 --> 01:26:51,880 the session. 2219 01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:53,480 Carrie, do you 2220 01:26:53,480 --> 01:26:54,920 think there would be any caveats to 2221 01:26:54,920 --> 01:26:56,760 cities 2222 01:26:56,760 --> 01:26:58,720 Obviously, it's hard to look in the 2223 01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:00,320 future, especially with our legislature, 2224 01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:01,280 but 2225 01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:02,640 would they write in do you think they 2226 01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:04,840 would write in any kind of exception for 2227 01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:07,440 cities that basically don't collect a 2228 01:27:07,440 --> 01:27:10,880 property tax that that 5% cap would keep 2229 01:27:10,880 --> 01:27:14,190 them behind for decades? 2230 01:27:14,200 --> 01:27:17,800 I I I could not presume to 2231 01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:20,720 think what they would do. 2232 01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:22,440 Yeah, but but 2233 01:27:22,440 --> 01:27:24,520 I think that the headwinds against 2234 01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:27,200 property tax are really strong right now 2235 01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:29,600 and that's what you're seeing in the 2236 01:27:29,600 --> 01:27:32,360 legislative session, but I do think that 2237 01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:34,400 Cam and the team at the League of Cities 2238 01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,800 and Towns were able to do a great job of 2239 01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:41,600 educating legislators about our needs. 2240 01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:43,240 You know, and then there were the bills 2241 01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:45,240 that were limiting 2242 01:27:45,240 --> 01:27:47,960 our fund balance and things like that. 2243 01:27:47,960 --> 01:27:49,480 And so, I think that we did a really 2244 01:27:49,480 --> 01:27:52,840 good job educating this year, 2245 01:27:52,840 --> 01:27:55,560 but I do I mean, this process and for 2246 01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:57,520 those who might be watching online feels 2247 01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:00,440 very cumbersome, but it it is believe 2248 01:28:00,440 --> 01:28:02,640 me, it is mountains better than two 2249 01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:03,920 budgets. 2250 01:28:03,920 --> 01:28:07,040 And so, and and and honestly, it's a 2251 01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:09,360 transparency we should be having. 2252 01:28:09,360 --> 01:28:11,600 They're discussions we should be having 2253 01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:14,000 and we should be having them right now 2254 01:28:14,000 --> 01:28:18,360 in May and in June, not in August. I 2255 01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:21,360 mean, August should be perfunctory 2256 01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,120 because we really should have hashed 2257 01:28:23,120 --> 01:28:25,960 things out in May and June. 2258 01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,160 You also made I believe you made your 2259 01:28:28,160 --> 01:28:30,320 slide presentation available to us that 2260 01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:32,440 you presented at the League of Cities. 2261 01:28:32,440 --> 01:28:34,400 There are some changes in this. Will you 2262 01:28:34,400 --> 01:28:36,800 also forward or make us a copy so that 2263 01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:38,840 we can This is This is on your computer 2264 01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:39,240 already. 2265 01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:40,600 >> All right. I just want to say you've 2266 01:28:40,600 --> 01:28:42,800 already got it. Yes, we made a couple of 2267 01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:45,000 tweaks. And we're And we're continuing 2268 01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,040 to tweak like Frank said, you know, 2269 01:28:47,040 --> 01:28:48,920 we're going to figure out this new thing 2270 01:28:48,920 --> 01:28:50,640 we learned today. 2271 01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:52,320 Um I sent it off to the league just 2272 01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:54,840 before we came here with a headline of 2273 01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:57,240 Houston, we might have a problem. 2274 01:28:57,240 --> 01:28:59,600 Um and so I just want them to be talking 2275 01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:01,120 about it because we want to stay in 2276 01:29:01,120 --> 01:29:02,920 front of these issues as we all go 2277 01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,800 through this together this year. 2278 01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:07,120 Okay? 2279 01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:09,440 Any other questions, comments? 2280 01:29:09,440 --> 01:29:11,520 And I just want to say we've tried to be 2281 01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:13,600 really transparent with this and when we 2282 01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:16,200 went through our, you know, tentative 2283 01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:17,800 budget when we approved that because 2284 01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:20,120 that's we knew there was this increase 2285 01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:21,800 that was coming and that's one thing 2286 01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:23,920 that our city treasurer really 2287 01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:25,520 recommended. Look, we can keep 2288 01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,360 subtracting from fund balance. 2289 01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:30,120 But that's one-time money. 2290 01:29:30,120 --> 01:29:32,400 But eventually there it's no longer 2291 01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:34,600 there and if we don't somewhat start to 2292 01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:37,560 get on top of this Yep. 2293 01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:40,440 then we're we're not not being very 2294 01:29:40,440 --> 01:29:42,600 solvent as a city. Well, it's not 2295 01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,440 fiscally responsible, right? It's just 2296 01:29:44,440 --> 01:29:46,440 like in our home budgets. When we have 2297 01:29:46,440 --> 01:29:49,000 savings, we get to spend our savings 2298 01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,000 once. 2299 01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:52,080 Then it's gone and then we don't get to 2300 01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:53,600 spend it again and if we don't have a 2301 01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,120 way to replenish our savings and to make 2302 01:29:56,120 --> 01:29:57,600 sure we've got it there, it's it's 2303 01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,280 exactly the same scenario. 2304 01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:02,120 Um and so I think your treasurer was 2305 01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:04,440 right that if you've been, you know, for 2306 01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:06,600 a few years spending down fund balance 2307 01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:08,680 as the way to balance the budget, you 2308 01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:11,000 don't get to do that forever. At some 2309 01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:14,000 point, you have to say, we need 2310 01:30:14,000 --> 01:30:17,400 additional ongoing revenue. And and then 2311 01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:19,840 maybe you follow up with a a policy 2312 01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:22,560 discussion of, you know, do we want to 2313 01:30:22,560 --> 01:30:25,520 only do this once every 13 years or do 2314 01:30:25,520 --> 01:30:28,800 we want to do it with more regularity so 2315 01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:31,320 that we don't get ourselves into this 2316 01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:33,520 position. So that we you know, and and 2317 01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,320 then you adopt a policy uh that would be 2318 01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,040 we're either going to do smaller more 2319 01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:40,200 frequent or we're going to do less 2320 01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:42,240 frequent larger. 2321 01:30:42,240 --> 01:30:43,520 That's I mean that those are your 2322 01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:46,560 choices, right? Um I would always 2323 01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:50,240 advocate that never isn't a choice 2324 01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:52,320 if you're being fiscally responsible 2325 01:30:52,320 --> 01:30:54,120 with the community. 2326 01:30:54,120 --> 01:30:55,240 Well, and that's the one issue that we 2327 01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:56,840 are dealing with is we have a lot of 2328 01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:58,720 capital improvement projects that we 2329 01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:01,320 need to take care of and our fund 2330 01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:03,680 balance isn't going to cover them. So we 2331 01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:04,840 need 2332 01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:06,600 stuff like this to Yeah. 2333 01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:09,480 to help us still provide services that 2334 01:31:09,480 --> 01:31:10,240 we need for the city. 2335 01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:10,880 >> Right. 2336 01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,600 There's another community right now who 2337 01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:15,760 you know, they just they actually took a 2338 01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:18,400 dollar bill and and I liked the way I 2339 01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:20,200 can send these visuals to you if you 2340 01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:22,160 want them, but they took a dollar bill 2341 01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:24,440 and they broke down the dollar bill so 2342 01:31:24,440 --> 01:31:26,200 that people could see where that was 2343 01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:27,960 going to where a dollar of the tax 2344 01:31:27,960 --> 01:31:30,200 increase was going to. And of their 2345 01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:34,080 dollar, 43 cents is going to capital 2346 01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:35,320 projects. 2347 01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:37,720 And so they they just said, we're so far 2348 01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,280 behind on capital infrastructure that a 2349 01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:42,280 good chunk of this increase that we're 2350 01:31:42,280 --> 01:31:45,680 asking for is going to every year we're 2351 01:31:45,680 --> 01:31:48,320 we've adopted a capital improvement plan 2352 01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:51,200 and we're going to dedicate this ongoing 2353 01:31:51,200 --> 01:31:53,640 revenue source to funding those 2354 01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:55,840 projects. You know, and I said Frank, 2355 01:31:55,840 --> 01:31:58,440 wow, almost half of their increase is 2356 01:31:58,440 --> 01:32:01,280 going to cap their capital projects to 2357 01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:03,920 fund capital projects. We for sure need 2358 01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:05,600 you to send us that dollar. 2359 01:32:05,600 --> 01:32:07,920 Okay. Okay, I'll send my I thought they 2360 01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:09,760 were really great visuals and so I'll 2361 01:32:09,760 --> 01:32:11,320 send them to you because it just breaks 2362 01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:14,000 it down into a way and then they had a 2363 01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:16,160 pie chart that showed, you know, how 2364 01:32:16,160 --> 01:32:18,840 much of the property tax bill total goes 2365 01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,080 to their community. Um I just I thought 2366 01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:23,200 they did a really nice job. So I'll send 2367 01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:25,440 them off, Mayor. I'll get back to you. 2368 01:32:25,440 --> 01:32:27,040 Great. 2369 01:32:27,040 --> 01:32:28,480 See, I I like to go look at all this 2370 01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:30,560 stuff, isn't it nice? 2371 01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:32,840 Thank you. Is there any other questions 2372 01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:34,240 that we have 2373 01:32:34,240 --> 01:32:37,120 from the audience that is here? Any 2374 01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:39,720 other questions that are 2375 01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:41,720 I don't have a question, but thank you 2376 01:32:41,720 --> 01:32:45,680 so much for coming. I I don't even know 2377 01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:47,160 I just want to come give you a great big 2378 01:32:47,160 --> 01:32:48,720 hug just for 2379 01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:50,960 being here and explaining it to I mean, 2380 01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:52,480 this is the second time I've heard it 2381 01:32:52,480 --> 01:32:53,480 from you. 2382 01:32:53,480 --> 01:32:57,440 And it made more sense to me tonight and 2383 01:32:57,440 --> 01:33:00,200 by having it on our site, if anybody's 2384 01:33:00,200 --> 01:33:02,240 uh listening to it, 2385 01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:05,760 just go back and watch it and 2386 01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:07,880 uh we really appreciate you. Yeah, 2387 01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:10,480 absolutely and thank you for inviting us 2388 01:33:10,480 --> 01:33:11,840 to come. 2389 01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:14,480 Um and then also, you can get links to 2390 01:33:14,480 --> 01:33:15,720 these, but you know, all of the 2391 01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:17,680 different budget trainings that I do for 2392 01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:20,120 you, if you want to use those with your 2393 01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:22,000 community to just really talk about how 2394 01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:23,800 you budget and how the budget process 2395 01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,040 works, those are all on the League 2396 01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:28,440 website as well. So Yeah, I was going to 2397 01:33:28,440 --> 01:33:30,400 ask cuz this is a public meeting, so I'm 2398 01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,400 sure we'll show it. It'll be listed cuz 2399 01:33:32,400 --> 01:33:34,320 that's going to be displayed. So I 2400 01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:36,600 wasn't sure how that works for your 2401 01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:38,760 organization to allow your training to 2402 01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:40,240 just be published out there, but I you 2403 01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:41,600 know, we got to let it go. It's It's 2404 01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:43,920 Yep, it's fine. It's It's my little 2405 01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:46,080 business that I come out on. I do 2406 01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:47,480 contract with the League of Cities and 2407 01:33:47,480 --> 01:33:50,800 Towns for theirs and they put it out. Um 2408 01:33:50,800 --> 01:33:52,560 but you know, Frank and I, we just 2409 01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:54,200 laugh. We're like, we do this and then 2410 01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:56,280 we just give it away to other people. We 2411 01:33:56,280 --> 01:33:56,994 appreciate 2412 01:33:56,994 --> 01:33:57,720 >> [laughter] 2413 01:33:57,720 --> 01:33:59,720 >> you both and I'm not going to come hug 2414 01:33:59,720 --> 01:34:02,030 you. 2415 01:34:02,040 --> 01:34:15,979 Cuz he's a nervous Nellie. 2416 01:34:15,989 --> 01:34:18,000 ยป [laughter] 2417 01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:19,880 >> Alrighty, well hopefully I'll see you 2418 01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:21,920 all in October, right? In Salt Lake 2419 01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:23,960 City. Yes, and thank you so much and I 2420 01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:26,720 will I'll just tell everybody anytime I 2421 01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:29,440 met one of the Utah League meetings and 2422 01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:32,000 I see Carrie's name, I attend every 2423 01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:34,840 single one of the seminars that she does 2424 01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:36,560 and after I've been down to the League 2425 01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:38,280 in St. George and then you presented it 2426 01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:41,760 online, I watched it again online and we 2427 01:34:41,760 --> 01:34:43,280 had talked about it, those of us that 2428 01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:45,480 were at the meeting. We could have tried 2429 01:34:45,480 --> 01:34:47,400 to have explained this, it would have 2430 01:34:47,400 --> 01:34:50,480 never ever been the information that you 2431 01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:52,120 were able to do and that's why we felt 2432 01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:54,680 like this was so important. And just as 2433 01:34:54,680 --> 01:34:56,200 you mentioned, it'll now be online that 2434 01:34:56,200 --> 01:34:58,480 people can go on, they can watch this 2435 01:34:58,480 --> 01:35:00,760 over and over and hopefully people will. 2436 01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:02,880 So again, yes, thank you and thank you 2437 01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:05,920 as well for coming. Yes, thank you. 2438 01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:07,880 And with that, um 2439 01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:09,640 is there I don't think we didn't 2440 01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:11,080 actually make a motion second, does 2441 01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:12,560 someone want to make a motion to 2442 01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:15,480 adjourn? So moved. Okay. Okay. We have a 2443 01:35:15,480 --> 01:35:17,480 motion a second. A second. Okay, all in 2444 01:35:17,480 --> 01:35:19,760 favor? Aye. Okay, this is now our 2445 01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:21,360 meeting is adjourned. Thank you so much 2446 01:35:21,360 --> 01:35:25,280 for coming. Yep, thank you. Recording.