1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,920 It is Tuesday, September 8th, 2026. It is now 6:00. Time to start the Horry 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:11,135 City Council meeting. Please join me in staying saying this 3 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:13,155 pledge of allegiance. >> [clears throat] 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:20,760 » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, 5 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:27,720 and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,720 liberty and justice for all. 7 00:00:32,599 --> 00:00:38,720 » All right. Uh Jim or Jolly, can I have you guys 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:41,280 silence your mics? I got feedback somewhere here. 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:49,160 Good. All right. So, we're going to call this meeting to order. 10 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,320 We do have quorum here tonight. We do have Ross Renner, 11 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:57,000 Naomi Berkeland, Rachel Dwyer, and Chad Chalmers present, 12 00:00:54,560 --> 00:01:01,120 as well as me, Mayor Jeff Trudell. Um has everybody had a chance to review 13 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:03,320 the regular agenda for this evening? >> Yes. 14 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,199 » Are there any changes or modifications to the regular agenda? 15 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,680 » No. >> Hearing and seeing none, I will look for 16 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:13,280 a motion to approve of the regular agenda. 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,040 » I make a motion to approve the regular agenda. 18 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:18,080 » Okay. Ross got it. I have a motion. Do I have a second? 19 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:20,160 » I'll second. >> I have a motion and a second. All those 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,360 in favor say aye. >> Aye. 21 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:26,400 » All right. Motion carries. Moving on to number four, approval of 22 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:29,760 the consent agenda. Has everybody had a chance to read through the consent 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:33,840 agenda for this evening? Are there any modifications or anything 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,840 that needs to be pulled? 25 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:40,080 Hearing and seeing none, I'll look for a motion. 26 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:42,480 » So moved. >> I have a motion to approve. Do I have a 27 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,160 second? >> I'll second. 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,120 » Rachel got it. I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. 29 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:54,080 » Aye. >> All right. Motion carries. Moving on now 30 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,080 to number five. 31 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:03,080 Number five, approval of the city council meeting minutes from August 32 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:07,560 17th, 2026. Has everybody had a chance to read through the meeting minutes from 33 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:10,119 August 17th, 2026? >> Yes. 34 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:12,959 » Any changes or modifications? >> No. 35 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:16,200 » Okay, if none, I'll look for a motion to approve. 36 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,040 » I'll make that Oh, sorry. I'll make that motion. 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,959 » Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a second? 38 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:21,880 » I'll second. >> I have a motion and a second. All those 39 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,680 in favor say aye. >> Aye. 40 00:02:22,959 --> 00:02:28,240 » All right, number five carries. Moving on to public comment, I received 41 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:31,920 two comment cards from this evening. I do not believe anybody else has turned 42 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:35,200 one in yet. Um I'll go ahead and start with Martin uh Martin Wohlhuter. Please 43 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,880 come up and um turn on the mic and address yourself. 44 00:02:40,476 --> 00:02:42,496 » [snorts] 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:51,840 » Uh good evening. I think it's working. 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:56,600 Uh Martin Wohlhuter is 10609 County 17 South. I had a quick question about 47 00:02:54,200 --> 00:03:01,200 maintenance of the ditch along County 17. And I've asked you about this, Jeff, 48 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,402 and appreciate your comment back to me, but it left me maybe with more questions 49 00:03:02,959 --> 00:03:06,880 than >> [laughter] 50 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:12,920 » than anything. So, the So, my question was who maintains the ditch along County 51 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:17,880 17 cuz I also own property along County 17, which I mow and maintain, 52 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:23,519 um which I'm fine with. Um but I've noticed city mowers uh north here and 53 00:03:21,239 --> 00:03:28,680 south actually today just north of 100th mowing mowing the county ditch. Um 54 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:33,200 and the reason you'd given me, Jeff, I think you'd talked to Brent about it was 55 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:37,440 it's egg land, which I don't know where that comes into play. 56 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:41,280 But it's city resources that are going into mowing this ditch. I have to expend 57 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:45,160 my resources to mow my ditch, which I'm fine with, but 58 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:49,360 it's either one way or the other. I don't know why egg or zoning plays into 59 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:52,280 it. Um and then I had a little conversation here with Brendan before 60 00:03:50,959 --> 00:03:57,360 the meeting, and he said, "Well, there's places you know, makes sense potentially 61 00:03:55,520 --> 00:04:02,560 um where I saw the mowing today was along the corn field. I'm not sure why 62 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:06,560 or how that's relevant. So, I'm looking for a little clarification on that. Um 63 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:11,240 you know, budgeting time is coming along here, too. And I think yes, we look at 64 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:14,640 the 3% cap and we look at all these things and revenues coming in, but we 65 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:17,160 also got to look what's going out. And this is one of those things it's like 66 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:20,280 are we basically 67 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:24,240 expending resources where we don't have to where money's tight, staff is tight, 68 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:28,000 all this other stuff is tight. Um I'd also like clarification on the 69 00:04:25,919 --> 00:04:32,440 ordinance um as far as property owners like myself, what the rule is for mowing 70 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,440 the county ditch. 71 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,880 » Okay. We can take that under 72 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:39,400 advisement to get that answer for you. >> Okay. 73 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,520 » All right, cuz I don't know if I have it. Do you want a quick one? 74 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:44,200 » Go ahead. >> So, when the city enters into an 75 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:47,560 agreement with the DOT to construct the shared use path along County Road 17, 76 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:52,560 they also enter into a maintenance agreement for the path itself at that 77 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,720 time. So, the paths are maintained by the city in that's agreement with the 78 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:59,360 DOT when the funding comes through from the government to do it. Uh the grass, 79 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,080 I'm not sure on, but the paths, there is an agreement for the paths. 80 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:04,240 » Okay. And to me and to me that's logical. I 81 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:08,200 appreciate the clarification because it's like yeah, it's a city kind of 82 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:12,600 public area. But this ditch is more of a gray area 83 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:17,080 where it's, you know, typically in the country the farmer would mow, you know, 84 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:21,560 as required by the county, right? Or like I have to mow cuz it's in front of 85 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:23,600 my house and whatever. So, but that's all I had. 86 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,960 Thank you. >> Thank you. 87 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:34,880 » All right. Second comment card is from Lynette Weber. Lynette, go on come on 88 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,880 up. 89 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:59,080 » My name is Lynette Webber. I live at County Road 17, 10005. 90 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:04,440 Um, the corner of County 17 and County 14. 91 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:08,160 I am speaking on the residents of County Road 17. 92 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:12,680 Um, Charlie brought up to the council's attention on August 3rd that with the 93 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:17,200 switchover from county to city that we'd have to possibly change our name. 94 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,640 Um, two and the suggestion was Main Street. 95 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:24,200 Um, I'm not a fan of being called Main 96 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:28,200 Street at the end of County 17. Um, and 97 00:06:26,919 --> 00:06:32,120 there's a lot of things to change when you start having to change addresses. 98 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:35,000 So, I 99 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:38,040 had a little help with that some of the residents, 100 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:42,200 but I'd like to read something that I we kind of wrote up and it's includes some 101 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:47,560 of the comments from the residents as I spoke to the residents along County 17. 102 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,320 We the residents of County Road 17 as our current address would like to keep 103 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:54,880 our current addresses with transfer jurisdiction of County Road 17 from Cass 104 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:58,440 County to the City of Horace on January 1st, 2027. 105 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,840 We're providing a signed petition to keep our current addresses. 106 00:07:00,280 --> 00:07:05,160 Unfortunately, I was not able to speak to all the residents that I but the 107 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:10,240 residents that I did speak did speak to stated they do not want to 108 00:07:07,280 --> 00:07:13,919 change and sign the petition. Our reasoning for wanting to keep our 109 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:18,160 current addresses include one, many of our residents have existed for 110 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:21,240 30 or 40 years or more under the current addresses. 111 00:07:19,919 --> 00:07:24,040 And we as owners have adopted the identity and pride of addressing over 112 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:28,240 those many years. 113 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:31,919 Two, a change of address would require to extend great effort and possibly 114 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:37,360 expense to change all the financial businesses and other contacts along with 115 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:42,120 legal documents, driver's license, notary documents, as well as changing 116 00:07:39,919 --> 00:07:45,880 the addresses for our friends and family members. 117 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:51,520 This may involve a significant number of changes for many of the affected owners, 118 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,520 maybe a hundred or more for some. 119 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:58,120 Number three, for some of the residents in particular, this would be the third 120 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:02,760 address change. As they were County Road 17 South Fargo, 121 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,960 then City of Horace um 122 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:13,880 was annexed into County Road 17 Horace. So, Main Street would be their third 123 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:17,400 address change. Number four, this would not only affect 124 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,440 residents' addresses, but also some of the residents are doing billing out of 125 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:26,000 their homes for the businesses. They would have to change their personal and 126 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:31,360 their business addresses, websites, mailing letterheads, envelopes. 127 00:08:29,919 --> 00:08:34,719 Number five, a changing our addresses would cause our mail to go through the 128 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:38,599 centralized mailing system, which could delay our mail. 129 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,440 Which would then mean we'd be late for bills, payments, not to mention if the 130 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,960 residents are involved in estates, sometimes notices 131 00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:50,360 are not sent immediately, and those mail pieces could be returned 132 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,360 to sender if our forwards have expired. 133 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:56,839 Six, many of us would be concerned that this could add confusion for emergency 134 00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:00,680 response that we don't currently have with our firmly established addressing 135 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:03,280 and 911 mapping. Not to mention all these changes would 136 00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:07,320 be entered manually and there's always a chance of error in keying manually. 137 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:14,280 So, the residents There was a group of us that decided to 138 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:17,200 email the county. Um 139 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:20,200 Cass County Engineer Kyle Klich, he asked if the change of address required 140 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,440 with transfer. Mayor Trudo, you were also included in 141 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:27,160 that email. Mr. Klich he looked at a applicable 142 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:30,600 North Dakota Century Code, Cass County policy, and the memorandum of 143 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:34,680 understanding between Cass County and the City of Horace regarding the 144 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,800 upcoming roadway transfer. Based on Mr. Klich's review, Cass County 145 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:41,920 is not required to change name on January 1st. The MEU states the transfer 146 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:47,480 of ownership maintenance responsibility, but it does not require a name change. 147 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,800 From the county's perspective, they would prefer the name change just for 148 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:54,800 the fact that there may be confusion as far as who's maintaining it, the snow 149 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,240 removal and construction. Although a simple simple phone call 150 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:01,120 would answer that question. And I believe that most of the residents 151 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:04,280 already believe the city is maintaining it, unfortunately. 152 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:13,360 The North Dakota Century Code 40-05-0120 does give the city the authority to name 153 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:17,040 change the name of a street, avenue, alley, or 154 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,600 other public place. So, council would have the authority to change name, but 155 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:27,240 the residents are residents are requesting that it remains County 17 and 156 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,240 not the suggested Main Street. Sorry. 157 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaking to the Red River Dispatch assistant director, she said it would 158 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:39,640 not necessarily affect the 911 because they go by the addresses that are 159 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:44,160 entered in the GIS system, the 911 system. It's who to dispatch the address 160 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,800 if we called into the into the 911 system. 161 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,680 It would remain the same providers, the Cass County Sheriff's Office, the 162 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:53,320 Southern Valley Fire Rescue, and the Sanford [clears throat] Ambulance. So, 163 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:56,839 it would not affect them. Speaking to the Horace Pass Postmaster, 164 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,920 Chad Olson, he stated he preferred the address to remain the same. Carriers 165 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:03,320 clerks are currently accustomed to the current address. A street name change 166 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:08,960 would not affect just one mail carrier, but two routes. Also, the sub carriers 167 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:12,920 would also be having the address change. Their stance was to keep the addresses. 168 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaking with the Southern Valley Fire Chief, Chris Mahoney, he stated that he 169 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,560 also preferred the address to remain the 170 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,800 same. Current staff, um all the new members, 171 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:25,520 know that four-digit County Road 17 is headed north, 172 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,520 five digits heading south Main Street is the center of town. 173 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:38,480 This is easier when you are in a rush to head 174 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,000 out to a fire call. The thoughts in your mind already going where you're headed. 175 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:43,720 So, as you're putting on your gear, you're already thinking about where 176 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:48,640 you're headed. So, he also preferred that the addresses stay the same. 177 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:52,360 So, after speaking to Cass County, Red River Regional Dispatch, Horse 178 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:55,480 Postmaster, and Southern Valley Fire, I decided to talk to each of the residents 179 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:59,400 that the street name change would affect and asked for their signature if they'd 180 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:03,000 like to keep their current addresses. Again, due to the holiday weekend, I was 181 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:09,480 not able to speak to all the residents, but got a fair amount of signatures. 182 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:12,960 So, I'd like to continue to keep my County Road 17 address if all is 183 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:17,040 possible. I asked the city council do that. And I'd like to submit our 184 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,800 petition with the signatures for the residents that were home and were able 185 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,800 to sign. The ones that I do not have signatures, 186 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:27,480 I could not get a hold of, stopped at many of the residents three, four times, 187 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:31,760 but with a holiday week weekend, a lot of them were gone. 188 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:35,240 Do you have any comments back, city council? 189 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:39,040 » I do. Brenton, can you make sure that everybody on the council gets that 190 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:41,920 letter from the county? I couldn't forward it to everybody, so 191 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,880 I'll let you guys do that just so that everybody at least has a copy of it. 192 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:50,920 » And I did see all the the email from there and I agree with what was said. 193 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:54,280 » Yep. We get We get passed it on and just so you know, the street name change is 194 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,200 asking council, what would you like to do? 195 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:01,960 So, if you guys want to keep it County Road 196 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:06,040 17, you're able to. It's staff asking, what do you want to do? 197 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,120 So, being that it's changing ownership, so it is 198 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,680 » I just want to make sure that the council was aware that they're not 199 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:16,760 forced to change it. That's all. >> Yep. 200 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:22,440 » Can those street names coexist? Can some people change to use one and some people 201 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:25,600 keep their old address? Not really. >> You're going to cause confusion and you 202 00:13:23,839 --> 00:13:29,880 don't want that confusion. If I put a 911 call and I want hope that people are 203 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:35,320 on their way and they know which direction they're headed. 204 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:39,000 » We we do have an area of County Road 17 that folks do use Main. 205 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,920 » The Main Street >> over there by like Biggers, the fire 206 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:48,120 hall, that general area. They do use Main, but they're able to use 17 or 207 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:52,560 Main, is my understanding. Uh but other than that, 208 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:57,000 everybody along 17 does use County Road 17 and 209 00:13:54,760 --> 00:14:01,840 Miss whoever she brought up the concern she just, you know, 210 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:05,400 the county's preference was to change it so it just is more clear of who actually 211 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:09,640 owns it, but you know, that's up to the council what 212 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:13,840 you want to have it named. >> I would just like, I mean, if the 213 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:18,000 residents are adamant about keeping their address, I don't see why we 214 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,000 wouldn't. 215 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,160 » So >> Agreed. 216 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:28,520 » So yeah, we do plan on that being a future. I am again, we council tabled it 217 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:32,520 last time we had discussion on it. So then we bring it back. We're just trying 218 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:36,000 to not have it while we had such a full 219 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,000 agenda, so. >> Sure. 220 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,960 » Yeah. >> And if there's a big snowstorm and the 221 00:14:39,839 --> 00:14:43,605 road hasn't been plowed yet, I definitely want it to be County Road, 222 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,080 so. >> [laughter] 223 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:50,680 » You got till January 1st. >> I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, 224 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:55,280 we be we'll be responsible, so. >> Okay, any other questions for Lynette? 225 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:57,760 » No, thank you very much. >> Thank you. 226 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:02,560 » All right, and that'll conclude our public comment period for 227 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:07,560 tonight. Um next up is the sheriff's update. I 228 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:11,800 have uh Keenan Bryce uh and Mr. Donner, looks like. 229 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,600 Are we on? >> Okay. 230 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,960 » All right. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the council. Um as normal, 231 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,520 we're going to present our law enforcement brief at the next meeting. 232 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,520 Looks like our agenda's pretty full for tonight. Uh I don't have a whole lot of 233 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:40,160 touch points for today. Um besides, I wanted to bring up again, 234 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:44,760 make sure um we're locking cars and trailers and things at night. Uh we've 235 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:48,560 had an uptick in recent weeks for uh vehicle break-ins, uh specifically 236 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:53,440 construction trailers again. Um so, myself and Deputy Murray will be 237 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:57,080 going around uh again um here in the near future to 238 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:00,360 uh address our city ordinance for overnight parking of trailers uh with 239 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:03,840 all our contractors to hopefully eliminate them even coming to town to 240 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:09,120 look at those things. Um I've also been talking with uh some 241 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,080 different developments uh as far as the relevant 242 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:15,920 uh residents inside those developments and seeing what kind of issues are up in 243 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:20,080 their areas. Uh it's been brought to my attention that there's been an abundance 244 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,800 of vehicles parking over sidewalks. So, we're going to try to address that in 245 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:27,000 the future, too, and do a lot of education uh so everybody can walk and 246 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:31,360 use their sidewalks without any issue. So, that's really all I have, Sheriff. 247 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,360 » Sure. 248 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,080 Thanks, Deputy Noonan. Um Mr. Mayor, members of the commission, I just wanted 249 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:41,200 to address everyone quickly and just mention obviously this weekend in Horse 250 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:45,000 is going to be a busy weekend. And um we've kind of shifted gears. I 251 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:50,360 know I mentioned this to the council members in the past. We've shifted gears 252 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:55,360 over the last 3 years on our response to larger events out in the county. 253 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:59,360 Um certainly uh we don't have any information that anything would uh be 254 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,920 unsafe down here. Um however, we always want to make sure 255 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:07,199 that we take the appropriate precautions and we have the proper resources to 256 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:10,800 respond in to anything that may come up. So, 257 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:15,600 um I just simply wanted to uh let the commission know that we'll 258 00:17:12,360 --> 00:17:20,280 have additional resources down here um and an operational plan as far as the 259 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:24,079 the parade events the morning of Um, I believe it's the 12th is that 260 00:17:22,120 --> 00:17:27,839 Saturday? So, the 12th. Um, 261 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:31,720 and so with that we'll we'll have uh, seven extra people down here. 262 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:35,960 Some of those you will see, some you won't. So, just 263 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:39,200 have some undercover stuff going on down here. 264 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:43,160 Um, and uh, again that's just literally to make sure that we can keep everyone 265 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:46,800 safe. We can respond to um, situations as they arise if we need 266 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:52,640 to. And um, that we're prepared. So, uh, 267 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:55,640 your guys' event has become very very large along with Kindred's and 268 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,280 Castleton's. And so, like I said, we just want to 269 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,440 make sure we're prepared. So, I just want to give you that information. Does 270 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:04,720 anyone have any questions uh, for me on that response? I'll be 271 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,080 down here as well acting in in sync command. 272 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,440 » No, I can touch base later on just with the safety 273 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:18,280 » uh, everyone is uh, welcome on the commission to uh, visit further about 274 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:21,000 that if you'd like to uh, to know some of those things, but 275 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,280 certainly some of our operational we want to make 276 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:29,600 sure that we not all information gets out. Um, but yes, certainly I'm 277 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:34,040 available to visit with whoever. I have visited with uh, Council member Renner a 278 00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:38,240 little bit just as far as uh, his experience with these things and then 279 00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:40,560 being a portfolio person today. So. Yep. 280 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,040 » No questions on that? >> And I appreciate uh, I know that 281 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:51,200 Sergeant Dells and Dells has been working with with Brenton and Paul for 282 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:53,920 some time to to uh, make sure that we get the proper information for all the 283 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:58,000 events that are occurring. So, we appreciate that partnership. I 284 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:01,520 appreciate his uh, his work on it and then the collaboration from your city 285 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:05,920 officials to make sure that we can uh, prepare appropriately. 286 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,920 So. 287 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:10,200 » Anyone else? Anyone? 288 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,440 » Thanks for your consistent good work during Bean Days and all the time. We 289 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:16,120 appreciate you guys. >> Absolutely. 290 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:18,000 » Yeah, absolutely. >> Thank you. 291 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,400 » Yep. >> So, the the parking across the 292 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:25,680 sidewalks, is that as a result of your observations or complaints? 293 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:29,280 » A little bit of both. Um I I'll be very honest. Uh normally during my travels, 294 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,080 if I see one, I might if there's somebody out and around, I'll address it 295 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:36,600 and have a conversation with them, but it's not something I go out of my way to 296 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:40,360 enforce. Uh but it's been um a complaint that I've seen over multiple different 297 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,480 people that I've talked to. Uh so, obviously it's an issue. Um if people 298 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,160 are out and about walking around and using strollers and and bikes, and if 299 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:50,400 they have to take the grass. Um poses a safety issue, and obviously we 300 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:54,280 have an ordinance and a century code for a reason for it. So, we'll start that. 301 00:19:54,320 --> 00:20:00,000 » I've actually received a couple of those personally and then sent uh Bryce to 302 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,320 check on those for us, so. >> Have you written citations in the past 303 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,840 or not? >> No, it's it's normally the something 304 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:10,320 that can be resolved with a education and a warning. Um so, typical with 305 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:13,040 parking violations, I like to reach out to the registered owner of the vehicle, 306 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:16,760 make sure they're aware of the the uh the underlying issue, and try to find a 307 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:20,680 way to resolve that or find them a legal spot to park uh before issuing a 308 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,680 citation. Um if the second time comes around and they're still doing the same 309 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,720 thing, that's usually when I start the citations in the uh municipal court. 310 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,160 » Sure. Thank you. 311 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,160 Thank you. 312 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,840 » Any other questions for us from the commission? 313 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,440 All right. Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. 314 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:49,560 » All right. Next, we have a Vision Zero presentation by Leah Kelm. 315 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:04,080 » Good evening. Um my name is Leah Kelm, and I am the 316 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:08,080 Vision Zero Coordinator for the Southeast region of the state. Um there 317 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:12,440 are six of my position in the state and you can see that I have the red counties 318 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:16,480 down in the corner that I do outreach in uh, for Vision Zero. If you're not aware 319 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:19,280 of what Vision Zero is, it is North Dakota's initiative across the state to 320 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:22,720 try to bring down our motor vehicle fatalities and serious injuries. 321 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:26,920 Um, if you want to scroll down a little bit. 322 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:30,880 Uh, our numbers throughout the state, um, thankfully 323 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:36,000 have been going down. Um, last year was the lowest we had been in over 20 years. 324 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:41,840 This year, unfortunately, that's not the case. We've seen quite the uptick in 325 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:45,680 fatalities and serious injuries. So, we still have part of the year left, but 326 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:50,240 that's something that especially my position, enforcement, infrastructure, 327 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:54,640 we're all working together as a team trying to bring down that number. Um, 328 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:58,480 but it just, unfortunately, sometimes people just don't love to buckle up and 329 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:04,440 that seems to be one of our biggest things along with distracted driving, 330 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,440 um, with our fatalities. So, 331 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:11,280 I wanted to give just a little bit on the outreach that I've done in your 332 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:16,040 community over the past year. So, last fall I did a car seat check with 333 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:19,920 Southern Valley, um, and we were able to check a variety of car seats. People 334 00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:23,440 came in with the car seat they had. We helped them install it and if they 335 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:26,440 needed something new, we helped them and provided education. 336 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:30,440 Um, that was also with the Highway Patrol and Safe Kids. I have presented 337 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:35,560 in your driver's ed classrooms at the high school on reckless and distracted 338 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:40,520 driving. Um, during the Packers vs. Hawks boys basketball game, we did a 339 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:46,360 LEOS and free throws contest at halftime which featured three law enforcement 340 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:49,760 officers from West Fargo PD, the, um, Cass County Sheriff's Office and the 341 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:53,240 Highway Patrol. Um, the Highway Patrol did win, but he is the only one that 342 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:57,200 practiced ahead of time, so we'll give that to him. Um, 343 00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:01,120 so, and then fans also had a chance to guess who would win, um, for their 344 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:04,720 chance at prizes as as Go to the next slide. Um, one of the 345 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:09,720 biggest and probably one of the events I'm most proud of, we did a Hawks Vision 346 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:13,880 Zero Day at the high school in May. Um, I worked with the school resource 347 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:18,840 officer and we had hundreds of students come out and do a variety of traffic 348 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:23,560 stations from a variety, um, of local partners. So, there was everything from 349 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:28,160 impaired driving goggles to distracted driving simulator. We had an actual 350 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:32,480 crash vehicle there from a family that unfortunately lost their lives due to an 351 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:37,840 um, impaired driver. We had a fire truck. We had the 352 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:41,600 ambulance. So, just quite a few different local first responders and 353 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:46,880 then we also even had the Horse Park District come out. And I had them set up 354 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:50,800 some different sports equipment and they read a story, um, and then the kids 355 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,920 afterwards had to try to remember what the story was. So, it was a distracted 356 00:23:52,400 --> 00:24:00,120 driving thing while using recreation. Um, so again, it was one of the biggest 357 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:04,200 events by far that I have done here. Um, they want to do it annually and we were 358 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:08,360 able to give the kids, um, prizes at the end if they went to more 359 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:12,080 than four stations thanks to the booster club. 360 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:16,400 Um, and then the last thing I did this summer is I helped with the kid safety 361 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:22,040 course with the park district and with the Cass County Sheriff's Office. We did 362 00:24:19,120 --> 00:24:27,720 bike education, um, for kids that were ages 5 to 8 and we did some different 363 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,720 hands-on activities for that. 364 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:33,440 Um, one other thing that I have done in your 365 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:37,640 community and that your community has been nice enough to let me put this sign 366 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:42,440 in your community since the project started is the smart sign driver 367 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:48,240 behavior pilot program sign. So, the project duration, um, was October of 368 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:53,080 2023 and it will end the pilot will end next month. Um, the 369 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:57,240 program will still keep going on. We were able to do it in Cass County thanks 370 00:24:55,240 --> 00:25:01,200 to federal grant funding. And the way that it works is it uses a smart sign, 371 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:07,280 which you can see with the phone down right there. It uses a detector, which 372 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:10,440 the detector is infrared technology. It is not a camera. It's not something 373 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,200 that's recording anything. It's totally anonymous. That's why we were able to 374 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,880 use it. And then there is a dashboard. And the 375 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:21,480 detectors, we have eight of them throughout the county. And with that, 376 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:25,760 they're able to detect if someone is speeding, not wearing their seatbelt, or 377 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:29,200 driving distracted. And then we have one sign that can move around to those 378 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:33,880 detectors to provide feedback to the people that are doing those behaviors. 379 00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:36,920 So, it will say phone down or buckle up if people unfortunately are doing those 380 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:43,280 behaviors. It is We were the first in the entire 381 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:47,320 Midwest to bring this here. It's new technology. 382 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:51,560 There've definitely been a lot of bumps. It has been I call it my perfect 383 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:55,320 dumpster fire. But it has definitely been a 384 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:59,600 project that there just isn't technology out there 385 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:04,200 that's able to detect this. And unfortunately, distracted driving 386 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:08,600 crashes are very underreported due to lack of like witness 387 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:12,720 witnesses wanting to admit that they did it 388 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:16,440 among other reasons. So, being able to have this and being able to get the data 389 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:21,120 and numbers of people that are driving distracted and not wearing seatbelts 390 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:26,360 was nice. It also is not automated enforcement at all. Law enforcement can 391 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:29,320 use the reports to help with targeted but it does not provide tickets. And 392 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:33,640 like I mentioned, it does not have a camera. 393 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:38,400 Next up Let's see here. So, one of the most 394 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:43,720 popular I would say and the biggest kind of case studies that we've done was in 395 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:49,120 fall of 2024. We put the sign right outside of Heritage Middle School. 396 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:55,240 And the reduction when it was up there for over a month um, 39% of people that 397 00:26:52,800 --> 00:27:01,080 were texting and driving. This study has actually been used nationally um, and so 398 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:05,600 it has been featured by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration 399 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:09,400 um, just to showcase the difference that this technology made and I would just 400 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,160 like to thank you for letting me put this technology in your city 401 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,560 um, because otherwise we wouldn't have this sort of results to be able to 402 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:20,840 provide. Um, if you want to go to the next one. 403 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:24,560 So. And like I mentioned, the project has 404 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:29,880 been recommended nationwide as a community traffic safety innovation. 405 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:33,440 Um, but like I mentioned to you, along along with the successes, there have 406 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:38,240 definitely been challenges um, with the rural locations. 407 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:42,840 Unfortunately, sometimes the traffic numbers are super low, so they aren't 408 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:46,840 we aren't getting the data. Sometimes it's too far away from the roadway. 409 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,400 Um, equipment reliability, we've had to change a lot of things out and weather 410 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:54,600 conditions. Uh, I was told that it would work in our weather. I did not believe 411 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,800 that and it definitely did not. So, they had to come up with self-heating 412 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,040 batteries, which it now can work through the winter. Recently, with the hot 413 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,600 temperatures, they did have to come up with some other things and kind of 414 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:10,200 insulate the detectors. So, again, it's been um, it's been a 415 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:14,760 learning curve, but it is something that we will be able to continue to have if 416 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,880 you do let us keep it in your community. Um, right now the sign is actually in 417 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,920 West Fargo, but there are still two detectors that are along um, right by 418 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,560 Heritage Middle School going east and going west. 419 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:29,720 We have been told that we will get the service from this company for another 420 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:34,080 year for free just with all of the issues that we have had. They are going 421 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:40,160 to provide um, moving of the detectors and service and 422 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:44,440 a dashboard for at least another year. Um, we also started with the dashboard 423 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:48,280 and with this company being a startup, we were able to provide some feedback 424 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,800 and have them give us, you know, change the dashboard for it. As you can see in 425 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:57,160 the bottom corner, that's a heat map for law enforcement. Um as of right now, 426 00:28:55,360 --> 00:29:01,360 um Deputy Nunan isn't receiving those, but we are working with the company for 427 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:05,920 him to receive a automated report every single month so that he will be able to 428 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:08,320 have the information and use it in real time. 429 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:16,720 Um the most recent analytics on the smart sign um were 430 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:21,400 going westbound, you're unbelted were 3.8%, you're distracted were 2.7, and 431 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:25,320 you're speeding at least 6 miles over were about 17. 432 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,720 Um for eastbound, I did not put the unbelted number because I think 433 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:32,800 something is off with the I think like the number just did not add up to me, so 434 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:39,880 I didn't want to give you an incorrect number. Um distracted is 1.2, and then 435 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:42,760 your speeding is 31% of six 6 miles or more over. That's how many people are 436 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:47,640 going that speed. But again, um if this is 437 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:52,720 something that you still would allow me to keep in your community, uh that's 438 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:59,120 awesome. Otherwise, I do understand as well if it's something that you have 439 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,120 decided um has run its course. So. 440 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:10,160 » All right, any questions? I think it's a great program, actually. 441 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:13,880 » Thank you again. >> Thank you. 442 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,880 » Thank you. 443 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:28,360 » All right, moving on to item number nine, uh River's Edge third edition. 444 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,960 Uh DeJolie, you're going to start this one, looks like. 445 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:39,080 » Okay. Uh so, this is a request for a rezone 446 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:42,320 and a plat. Uh the rezone request is to uh 447 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:46,880 rezone the property from agriculture to compact residential. 448 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,840 The the solid blue lot 449 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:55,000 area is only subject property. So, they're using a very small portion of 450 00:30:53,240 --> 00:31:00,960 those two parcels in the blue outline. The 451 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:08,960 applicant is proposing three lots in that area. They range, I think a 452 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:14,240 little over half acre per lot. They are all accessed from a private 453 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,240 drive. 454 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,440 The the rezone and the plat request does 455 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:25,200 comply with the comprehensive land use plan. 456 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:30,440 The future land use map categorizes this as suburban. So, the density does comply 457 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:35,240 with that. For the surrounding areas to the north, 458 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:40,880 you see is directly connected to the Traverse Edge second, which is compact 459 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:44,880 residential. To the south and west is agriculture currently, but that's part 460 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,840 of Traverse Edge. So, it's in the future going to 461 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:52,160 be rezoned to compact residential or 462 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:57,320 something similar or compatible. And then to the east, there is SR3. 463 00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:06,160 Staff thinks it's not a very drastic change from SR3 to compact residential. 464 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:13,200 However, we also still think that the size of the lots do comply more with SR3 465 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:18,520 zoning district. However, staff does not have much ground to deny that request 466 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:21,480 because it still complies with compact residential. 467 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:25,520 Overall, we we 468 00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:31,040 analyzed this to comply with the land use ordinance also. So, staff recommends 469 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:34,640 approval of both the plat and the rezoning request. 470 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:38,960 The planning and zoning commission did recommend approval. They had one 471 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:43,640 condition on the plat, which is already met by the applicant, so we have no more 472 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:49,400 comments. And the applicant is present if you have any more questions, and if 473 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,400 we can answer any of your questions. 474 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,080 » Is it all the same property owner? >> Yes. 475 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:07,880 » I had one question looking at that Hepkin Drive. 476 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:13,560 » Oh, yes. Matt, can you go to the next slide, please? 477 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:20,640 So, the Hepkin Drive comes from the east and kind of takes a 45° almost angle. 478 00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,640 » Okay. 479 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,800 » Um Mr. Mayor, this is also a public hearing. 480 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:33,280 » All right, before I open the public hearing, uh does anybody have any 481 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,280 questions for Jadali? 482 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:41,200 Okay, hearing and seeing none, I'm going to look for a motion to open the public 483 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,560 hearing. >> Motion to open the public hearing. 484 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,000 » Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a second? 485 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,240 » I'll second. >> Okay, I have a motion and a second. All 486 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,880 those in favor, say aye. >> Aye. 487 00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:54,240 » All right, public hearing is now open. Does anybody from the public wish to 488 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,440 speak on this? Oh, hey Jace, how you doing? 489 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,400 » Hello. Good evening, [laughter] Mr. Mayor and members of the council. 490 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:03,920 Uh for the record, Jace Hellman on behalf of River's Edge uh development 491 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:08,040 for this project. Uh really simple with this one. The The 492 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:11,639 private drive is already existing. The services that were installed with 493 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,560 River's Edge second edition. All's we're doing with this one is 494 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,520 essentially just platting three lots around the existing infrastructure 495 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,639 that's already there. So, there is no proposed improvements with this 496 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,600 development. Um water, sewer, 497 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:28,040 storm, everything is accounted for these three. We're just adding three more 498 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,360 buildable lots to the inventory out there. 499 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,120 » Okay. Anybody have any questions for Jason? 500 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,240 I see no questions. Thank you, Jason. 501 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,560 All right. Anybody else from the public wish to speak on this matter? 502 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:06,640 And going twice. Anybody else from the public wish to speak about River's Edge 503 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,640 third edition? 504 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:15,600 And for the third and final time, anybody wish to speak on the River's 505 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,600 Edge third edition? 506 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:24,800 Hearing and seeing none, I'll look for a motion to close the public hearing. 507 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,800 I have a motion. Do I have a second? 508 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,000 » I'll second. >> I have a motion and a second. All those 509 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,680 in favor say aye. >> Aye. 510 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,120 » All right. So, discussion from the council. 511 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:46,240 » I I went out and visited the area. Wow, you guys did great job. It's the 512 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:50,120 vision for what you have out there and what you're putting together. 513 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:54,600 Just another Just another uh Just a Just a great project in my 514 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,600 opinion. So. 515 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,760 » What was the What was the This went to 516 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,760 » Planning and Zoning. 517 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,440 The Planning and Zoning Commission recommended approval. 518 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,880 » Okay. >> Yeah. They They had that one condition 519 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:16,960 to add a note on the plat and which has been addressed. So, we have no other 520 00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:16,960 outstanding comments. 521 00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:23,840 » All right. >> Yeah. 522 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:28,480 Seems like the next step in the master plan and uh 523 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:31,280 I have no issue with it. It looks great. >> Okay. 524 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,640 Um Lucas, quick question. Did you want me to open a public hearing for the plat 525 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,760 as well, or are we going to do those separate? 526 00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:38,760 » The assumption was that you open the public hearing for the plat and rezone 527 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:43,880 at the same time. That's how we've been doing the developments past 528 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,400 couple years. >> Well, 529 00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:48,160 um before I get ahead of myself, 530 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,520 um I'll go ahead and just 531 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,840 uh make sure it's okay with everybody else 532 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,720 on the council that and then I'll just look to see if 533 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:59,280 there's anybody that wanted to make a public comment on the plat at all. If 534 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:02,920 you do, then we can open up a a public hearing on that. 535 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:06,080 And if not, then I'm going to look for a motion 536 00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:09,040 um to address both the rezone and the plat. 537 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:13,520 » I'll make a motion to recommend approval of the River's [clears throat] Edge 3rd 538 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:17,360 Edition rezoning from AG to CR and the plat requested as presented. 539 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,080 » Okay. I have a motion. Do I have a second? 540 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,880 » I'll second. >> I have a motion and a second. All those 541 00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:25,760 in favor say aye. >> Aye. 542 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,760 » All right. Motion carries. 543 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:33,120 Moving on to number 10, land use ordinance amendment. Nathaniel, you got 544 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,120 this one. 545 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:40,120 » This is unchanged from the prior uh 546 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:44,040 appearance. The 547 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:49,440 current situation is that a plat approved by city council 548 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:53,520 is valid for a year. That means a an applicant with an approved plat can wait 549 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:57,800 up to a year to record it. Um 550 00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:01,400 the plat does not automatically expire, but needs an affirmative action by 551 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:06,400 yourselves in order to require that applicant to come back through the 552 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:12,000 uh approval process. This amendment would reduce the amount 553 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:16,920 of time after a final plat is approved to 6 months, 554 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:21,960 um and would automatically cause expiration if if a uh extension wasn't 555 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:27,240 granted. It would also cap the extension at 60 days. 556 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:33,400 You heard testimony last time um that this could cause problems for developers 557 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:36,880 who need additional approval from agencies such as Southeast Cass Water 558 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,800 Resource District. Um 559 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:45,520 I take the point of that. 560 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:49,240 My response would be the 561 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:52,800 Planning Commission's approval is an approval of the city. 562 00:38:51,360 --> 00:39:00,000 Um if you look at um West Fargo has a 563 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:06,120 plat approval process where the Planning Commission approves a preliminary plat 564 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:09,760 and the City Council approves a final plat. 565 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:14,120 Quite similar to our own process, but with different names assigned to the 566 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,600 steps. Um 567 00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:24,400 I will readily admit that I don't know the developers' side of the business 568 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,800 half as half as much as they do. Um my 569 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:34,320 suggestion would be that the Planning Commission could be treated as 570 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:38,240 a preliminary plat under our current process. After that step 571 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:41,240 whereas we have been trying to move quickly from 572 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:45,920 Planning Commission approval to yourselves 573 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:49,600 um instead inserting more time for shopping around to any necessary other 574 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:54,000 agencies for coordination and then proceeding to 575 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:58,360 City Council approval only immediately before recording. 576 00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:02,000 My two cents, happy to be told I'm wrong. That's that's my pitch. 577 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:08,960 » Thank you. >> Thank you. Does anybody have any 578 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,960 questions for Nathaniel? 579 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,560 » I don't have any questions. 580 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:22,200 » So um 581 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:28,200 you are recommending to have a You said a 60-day renewal. 582 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:31,480 Or the potential to have a 60- I'm sorry, 60-day extension. 583 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,320 » Yes, that is that is included in this. >> included. 584 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,880 » Yes. >> So, it gives 60 days. 585 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:40,760 And the way that they acquire those 60 days is 586 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,040 through >> an affirmative action by yourselves. 587 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,880 » Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. 588 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:50,920 So, it would be an automatic 6-month approval period. Again, this only 589 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:54,320 impacts a final plat approved by City Council. 590 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:58,960 Planning Commission approval today does not have any shot clock 591 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:02,720 attached to it. It also would not have any shot clock attached to it if if this 592 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,320 were adopted. Um so, 593 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,880 » Say that again. Can you explain what you mean by 594 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:12,920 » So, Planning Commission approval there's no expiration in our ordinance. 595 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:18,160 Um the final plat 596 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:20,760 approval already has I'm going to call it a tentative 597 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:25,720 expiration as shown in in the markup of of 1 year. 598 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:31,520 Um it's not a hard expiration date cuz it doesn't automatically take effect. Um 599 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:35,160 but there's no there's no sunset window between when 600 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,760 something appears at Planning Commission and when it appears before yourselves. 601 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:44,680 So, we have a lot of flexibility in that stage already and and would continue to. 602 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:53,560 I don't know if that makes sense, but >> And And just Sorry, just to add to it, 603 00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:58,480 that that time between the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council can 604 00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:03,320 be truly utilized to address a lot of those other comments. And when you they 605 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:08,480 come to Council, they should have it already to go at that point with maybe 606 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:10,880 minor adjustments, but nothing more than that. 607 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:18,720 » I think I can agree that. Um I mean, I guess in the past I felt like 608 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:22,800 we were so quick to trying to get it to council because developers requested and 609 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:27,560 said that the process was just taking too long. 610 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:31,040 So, if they are like hold off on getting it to the council so we can finish up a 611 00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:37,160 couple um loose ends on our end, then that's 612 00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:40,680 fine with me. But yeah, I I do think like once it gets to the council level, 613 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,360 I mean most of those things should be buttoned up. 614 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:48,920 And if they're okay with waiting to get it to council, then I see no issue with 615 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:53,240 it. >> I don't claim to speak for 616 00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:56,240 any any developers, so I I wouldn't 617 00:42:53,720 --> 00:43:00,440 » No, I'm I mean, I'm just from my own experience with the developers, I just 618 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:06,080 always assumed they wanted to hurry up and get it get it into council. But if 619 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:09,480 if the if if they want to hold off and finish up loose ends before it comes to 620 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:15,040 us for final approval, >> I just I just mean to say I'm proposing 621 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,800 an idea. I haven't uh run it by 622 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:20,360 Well, I I've talked to one of the developers. 623 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:24,520 » from the developers at the last time that we discussed this, it sounded like 624 00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:29,800 they were concerned that with the final approval at council level, 625 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:33,320 they would run into issues. But if they get the issues taken care of before it 626 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:38,400 it even comes to us, it shouldn't be an issue. 627 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:38,400 So, I'm fine with that. 628 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,480 » Ross. 629 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,240 And Chad, anything? >> Um yeah, I just want to make sure that 630 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,800 uh that that that every all the the the 631 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:57,640 developers know the process so that it's not a surprise, you know, 632 00:43:55,000 --> 00:44:02,040 on day what 184, whatever. I mean, you know, 633 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:07,680 that they're like, "What?" You know, I I I I don't want 634 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:10,560 Do would we would we send them an email like a week before saying hey or I mean 635 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,280 do I take it we're we're going to be in 636 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,760 contact with these people that potentially could expire? 637 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,040 » So this would >> Just to give them the benefit of the 638 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,960 doubt, right? >> Right. Just a reminder this would only 639 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:24,920 apply to future plats. Nothing already done changes. 640 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:27,760 Um I mean it's not spelled out in the 641 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:32,600 ordinance. My instinct would be this would be handled 642 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:35,120 by a talk before something goes to city council. 643 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,800 » Just just to give them a good faith. >> Yeah. Are you really sure? 644 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,040 » Are you ready? >> Are you ready to go? 645 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:43,280 » it? >> Yep. 646 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:49,080 » Cuz the expectation under this new ordinance would be for rapid recordation 647 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:54,080 after approval. >> And and we do plan to work with them to 648 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:58,280 let them know or give them a heads up. Hey, you have 1 month left or you know, 649 00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:02,720 something like that. I think that would be beneficial too. 650 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:02,720 » Yeah. 651 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,000 » All right. With that Rachel, anything else? 652 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,040 » Nothing to add. >> Okay. 653 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:14,120 If there is nothing else, I'll look for a motion. 654 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:17,560 » Uh I'll make that motion, please. >> Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a 655 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,560 second? 656 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,120 » I'll second. >> I have a motion and a second. All those 657 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,080 in favor say aye. >> Aye. 658 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:29,120 » All those opposed? >> Aye. 659 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,120 » Anybody confused? 660 00:45:29,416 --> 00:45:31,800 » [laughter] >> Aye. 661 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:41,080 » You're good with the motion? >> All right. So three to one, right? Is 662 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,880 that what you just said? Okay. >> And and Mr. Mayor, just for the 663 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:47,280 council's awareness, that's approval of the first reading. So it's an ordinance. 664 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:49,680 We'll do a second reading likely on the consent agenda at your next council 665 00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,240 meeting. >> Sounds good. 666 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,240 Okay. 667 00:45:53,840 --> 00:46:00,600 All right. Next up is a memorandum of understanding between Fargo and Horace 668 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:03,760 and Lucas and Jim, I I you both will be taking this. 669 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:08,800 » Yes, good evening Mr. Mayor, members of the council. I'll take these memos and 670 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:13,480 if there's anything that um I am missing, Jim can fill me in on this. 671 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:17,520 You'll recall at your um last City Council meeting, we had 672 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:21,040 representatives from the City of Fargo in attendance to discuss any questions 673 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:26,520 or concerns that the Horace City Council had with the MOUs for veterans and then 674 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:32,720 the other one for uh the second connection for the sanitary sewer uh 675 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:36,280 service from Horace to uh Fargo. I think the council had most of its 676 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:42,560 questions answered that night from representatives from Fargo. The council 677 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:48,160 then gave me direction to um discuss additional revisions to the memos with 678 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:54,160 uh the city attorney's office for the City of Fargo. So, I did that. Um 679 00:46:51,440 --> 00:47:00,000 we exchanged emails and had some um revisions that I wanted to present to 680 00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:04,840 the city uh of Fargo and and they um were great to work with. Uh we got two 681 00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:08,840 memos that I think um make sense for both the City of Horace and the City of 682 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:13,440 Fargo. Uh I believe the council received those revised versions in your packet. 683 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:16,160 So, I'm just going to present on the revisions that were made. We don't need 684 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,240 to go through um 685 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:22,720 through everything. So, I'll I'll actually start Mr. Mayor with well, 686 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:27,600 veterans is first. Um veterans memo actually had fewer proposed changes. 687 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:30,400 Um Council member Berglin actually suggested 688 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,920 um through that conversation on 689 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:38,720 extending construction or allowing construction to start or commence in 690 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:44,160 2029 um for cities uh the city's budgeting purposes. So, I added that 691 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:48,440 language into section 1A I. Um and that says for budgeting 692 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:53,520 purposes, paving on this portion will not commence prior to 2029. And that's 693 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:58,640 for the portion um from 64th Avenue South to 76th Avenue 694 00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:01,960 South, which Fargo will oversee. And again, so adding that language 695 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:06,640 language in there, that construction will not start until 2029. So, the city 696 00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:09,480 of Horace can budget and actually so both 697 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:14,640 entities can budget. And then, same thing with section 1 B I, 698 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:19,360 adding in there that construction of that portion of Veterans 699 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:25,200 wouldn't take place until 2029. And then, the only other 700 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:32,360 real change I think I had is in section 3, 701 00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:32,360 the second to last 702 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:39,600 third to last sentence, the parties hereby agree that each party will pay 703 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:43,320 one half the project costs of any such pavement preservation project. I had 704 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,160 them incorporate in there mutually agreeable 705 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:50,800 pavement preservation project. So, if there's going to be any 706 00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:54,720 pavement preservation to Veterans, the parties will work together and Horace 707 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:58,280 and Fargo have to agree on that work before it gets done. Again, that's for 708 00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:02,360 budgeting purposes and for Horace's awareness 709 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:07,720 if if those projects are to proceed. So, with that, Mr. Mayor, those 710 00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:12,480 are the only suggested changes that I had and that's based on 711 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:16,080 my review of this and then the council's comments that were made during the last 712 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:18,840 meeting. There really wasn't much to Veterans. 713 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:24,520 And for the council's awareness, too, the reps that were here 714 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,920 at the last meeting, they asked if they should come again tonight and we didn't 715 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,440 think it was necessary. So, they did ask multiple times if they should be here. 716 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:38,400 » Okay. Any further discussion here on just Veterans Boulevard? 717 00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:38,400 From the council? 718 00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:49,360 » Was this still tied were we still tied to their development approval with this 719 00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:54,600 MOU? >> For 2029. 720 00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,600 » So, they haven't approved it. 721 00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:07,160 I still am kind of confused why they why Fargo would 722 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:10,760 make their development contingent upon us signing this. I mean, they approved a 723 00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,360 plat. >> Cuz they wanted to make sure the city of 724 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:16,960 Horace was okay with this MOU before they 725 00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:21,200 give the green light to the development to proceed. And then, on top of that, we 726 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:27,600 added in there that 2029 language at your suggestion. 727 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:30,360 » Okay, well, I guess so be it. 728 00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,880 » What's What's your concern? Just at least get it out just so we 729 00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,720 » Yeah, yeah. >> I guess it's just confusing to me 730 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:39,800 because I've never tied one of our developments to like saying, well, I'm 731 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:44,800 going to wait till Fargo votes on something, you know, votes on a project 732 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:48,640 or a MOU of some sort. I mean, we also have this other section 733 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:52,720 that we are probably going to have to be dealing with at some point, too. I 734 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:56,320 didn't time tie that development to Fargo. So, 735 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:58,880 » And so, my interpretation of it is it's a courtesy from Fargo to Horace 736 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:03,280 » Okay. >> that they're saying, developer, yes, you 737 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,080 have this plat, but we are trying to work out an agreement with the city of 738 00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:09,840 Horace. We need the city of Horace to be agreeable to that before we can let you 739 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:14,320 start constructing this. >> Is this urgent to them? 740 00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:18,400 » They would like to get this these agreements or these MOUs finalized. 741 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:25,080 » And I think my question has been I don't know what kind of, you know, 742 00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:29,080 obviously someone talks leverage and they think, oh, that's a negative thing, 743 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:32,160 but what I look at is worst-case scenario if they decide to put a 744 00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:36,320 junkyard, you know, on the other side of Veterans 745 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:40,920 next and then the across the street is one of our subdivisions. W- 746 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:44,760 At what point are we going to have any leverage with the city of Fargo to 747 00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,880 prevent them from putting a junkyard? I'm I'm saying they're going to do it, 748 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:48,800 but >> Yeah, so it's any kind of leverage of 749 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,120 control >> Reverse 750 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:52,280 » the roles. >> Yeah, well 751 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,920 » You know, the city of Horace could do the same thing. 752 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:58,400 » us, we would we wouldn't want to put something detrimental to what they're 753 00:51:56,280 --> 00:52:00,920 going to do on on their side. So, at what point would we negotiate any of 754 00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:04,600 that that type of thing? >> Understood. So, so when the 755 00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:08,840 representatives were here last, I believe they did address that and 756 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:12,400 they did say state that they were looking at 757 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,600 having residential budding up against the city of Horace. 758 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:19,800 » Okay. >> That is if if I remember right, that is 759 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:23,880 the other high in in terms of elevation property that allows them to continue 760 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:26,280 building something while the diversion is still underway. 761 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:30,000 » Okay. I I just wanted some assurances that we 762 00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,720 weren't going to run into a zoning issue where 763 00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:38,440 you know, some of our developers are developing you know, in that area 764 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:41,640 and then there's something that doesn't it doesn't it doesn't 765 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:45,360 » Yeah, so the the plat that council member Berglin referenced that is for 766 00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:48,200 residential development. That's Lost Lost Creek addition. 767 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:51,680 So, that [clears throat] that will be residential. 768 00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:56,440 » to you Mr. Crocker is have you ran this past them? I'm trying to remember back 769 00:52:53,480 --> 00:53:00,520 to what they talked about and 2028 sticks in my mind as to date that they 770 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:05,960 wanted to actually have their their 771 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,960 next development started. 772 00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:12,840 » I don't know what the date of the development, but the the road was 2029 773 00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,000 and they agreed to that. >> Okay. 774 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:18,600 » The development would start earlier. >> Correct. 775 00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:21,000 » Lost Creek is way north, right? Lost Creek is 776 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:24,480 » Off of 64. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. 777 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:28,640 » Yeah, and I think they wanted at least veterans 778 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,840 by that year so that we could just because of the interchange. 779 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,320 » And I'm trying to think of what the trigger was if it was 64th or if it was 780 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,520 yeah. >> Okay. 781 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:41,400 » That'd be my only comment is just making sure that this is actually you know, 782 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:44,680 agreeable by them. I mean, obviously we we can we can approve it and then they 783 00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,440 can say no, we're not going to do that and then we're back in the drawing 784 00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:49,880 board. So >> when I was working with the city 785 00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:53,240 attorney's office, they then coordinated with the 786 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,440 city engineer's office and then um 787 00:53:54,427 --> 00:53:58,320 » [clears throat] >> the water department. I can't remember 788 00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,600 what that water water reclamation Yeah. 789 00:53:58,920 --> 00:54:02,560 » Okay. >> All right. 790 00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:07,240 » I Okay, are we saving our comments for after he talks about changes to both? 791 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,640 Okay, I will. >> Yeah, I'll 792 00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:13,280 Right now we're just discussing veterans. If you 793 00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:17,320 have comments on veterans >> Um it's okay, it's kind of on both, but 794 00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:19,160 I do appreciate all of the changes that you made. 795 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:23,902 » There there were more in the sewer one, yeah. 796 00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:27,160 » Okay, I'll I'll save my comments. >> [clears throat] 797 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,360 » All right then, what do you guys want to do? 798 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:35,880 Do you want me to discuss the sewer one or do you want to act on the veterans 799 00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:42,080 one? >> Well, okay, I still have a major hold up 800 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,080 with I guess um 801 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:47,800 I just fundamentally disagree with kind of accepting that boundary. 802 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:53,600 Um that strip annexation without doing some 803 00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:58,840 checking about how that came about, like how and when and why. 804 00:54:55,960 --> 00:55:03,600 Um I know some people think it's impossible to change, but I still just 805 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:08,240 feel like I mean, I love Horace. I really care about the community like we 806 00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:13,000 all do up here and it feels like they outmaneuvered us and I just do want to 807 00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:17,160 know if there's anything that can be done about it. Um 808 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:21,640 because the document does say that we accept that strip annexation as now and 809 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:26,800 in the future as our boundary and that feels like a really big thing to accept 810 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:31,720 from them without some more information. Um 811 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:35,440 to me like going east, you could have parks, green space. Those people could 812 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:39,080 Has anybody talked to the landowners over there to know if they want to be 813 00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:44,800 Fargo or if they want to be Horace. I I don't I'd like to know how that all 814 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:47,100 went. I know it was like 2006. Um I guess I would like some answers about 815 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:51,080 that before I'm comfortable [clears throat] accepting this strip as 816 00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,960 the now and in the future boundary between our cities. 817 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:57,280 Um to me that's a 818 00:55:55,200 --> 00:56:02,080 big hold up and I don't know how my fellow council members feel. 819 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:06,760 But even just directing Lucas to look at the history of the annexation, 820 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:11,320 um who initiated it, if the landowners around there were talked to, if Horace 821 00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:17,040 agreed to it, why it was done, and some sort of a legal opinion as to 822 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:21,240 if it is um set in stone or if it is something that can be worked around 823 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:24,040 because it completely cuts our city off from any 824 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:28,120 um space that way to I mean continue to 825 00:56:27,560 --> 00:56:32,400 I don't know. >> Yeah, so so as you mentioned it would 826 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:38,160 that a lot of that annexation was done through the legal process in 2006. 827 00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,400 The cities of West Fargo and Fargo were also dealing 828 00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:48,280 with it or West Fargo and Horace um in 2003. 829 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:51,320 So it was an issue around that time when the three cities were all dealing 830 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,760 with annexation type proceedings. Uh and I 831 00:56:53,280 --> 00:57:00,080 think it started with Fargo and West Fargo with their discussions and then 832 00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:04,680 the Horace one I our law firm wasn't representing the city at that time, so I 833 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,240 can't speak to the annexation at that time. 834 00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,280 Um but 835 00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:13,520 my my opinion is that the annexation part 836 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:18,680 that was done in 2006 is all outside of the scope of this MOU and I don't think 837 00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:23,120 this MOU necessarily accepts anything in terms of 838 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:27,800 Uh and I know what you see with when you read the the MOU to to draw upon that 839 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:30,880 because it does reference >> that is permanently our border now and 840 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:35,800 in the future. >> down. 841 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:40,600 But this MOU is not something that is going to change 842 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,600 how that's done. 843 00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:54,200 I understand your comments as to why is it in there. That's that's probably the 844 00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:59,680 easiest way to sum it up. >> in 2006, and I think we 845 00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:05,800 don't need to I mean, we don't need to accept it permanently if there's any way 846 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:09,560 um to 847 00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:14,240 I don't know. It seems like we were out-strategized at that point, and 848 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,320 » And And I don't know what the history was. 849 00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:22,040 » Right. >> What transpired or how it how it went 850 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:22,040 down in 2006. 851 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:29,600 » I would agree with Commissioner Dwyer. I think that there's some answers that 852 00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:33,640 need to be had in reference to that question. And it certainly it doesn't 853 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:39,840 sound like we're I I get that this has been back and forth a few times, but um 854 00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:45,040 as it references within the agreement, I I do think it has some bearing, and I 855 00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:48,560 think prior to making a decision uh it would be prudent for us to try and 856 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:52,080 find out that history. >> Do you guys mind if I make a motion to 857 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:56,480 direct Mr. Crocker to do some research on this? 858 00:58:54,960 --> 00:59:00,440 Um would that be the appropriate next step, would you say? 859 00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:04,360 So, like um I'd like to make a motion to have Mr. 860 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,480 Crocker research the history of the annexation, 861 00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:10,160 um maybe when, how it happened, who 862 00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:15,600 initiated it, whether landowners and Horace agreed to it, and 863 00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:21,440 potentially why it why it was done, and a legal opinion on on what options we 864 00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,440 have to reconsider. 865 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:26,080 » That's fine. Um I have a motion. Do I have a second? 866 00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:29,160 » I'll second. >> I have a motion and a second. All those 867 00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:30,080 in favor say aye. >> Aye. 868 00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:33,520 » Aye. >> All right, Lucas. I'll let you have some 869 00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:37,080 time to um research that, and then we can move on 870 00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,200 to the um the second MOU. 871 00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:44,320 » Sounds good. >> So, the second one was for the sewer 872 00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:48,760 service. Uh this one had more um changes to 873 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,840 to this. The first one, section one, I just wanted 874 00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:54,640 um more of a definition of what the effective date was to say that it's the 875 00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:58,280 date um of the last signature appearing on 876 00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:01,000 the document, which is typical for our agreements. 877 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:04,840 Um Changes to any reference to 57th Street 878 01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:09,200 just being Veterans Boulevard, because that's what it's uh being called now. 879 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:17,960 And then, some of it was just comments for the city's awareness. One of them is 880 01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:23,480 um Matt, for you, section 4A uh II, just that um 881 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:29,280 the cost of the upgrades to lift station two that the city's responsible for, um 882 01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:36,160 $450,000. So, just for budgeting purposes that the city is aware of that. 883 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:41,040 Um that that's part of the the upgrades. I think a large portion of the Well, I I 884 01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:45,520 know a large portion or a majority of my comments were on 885 01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:50,520 um the infrastructure, the the force main line from 886 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:54,880 point of connection to to Fargo's sewage collection system, 887 01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:58,560 which is planned to be extended um from 66th Avenue South to 45th Street 888 01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:03,480 South. Uh and just figuring out So, the city of 889 01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:07,280 Horace is paying for that portion or that infrastructure, but it's located 890 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:10,400 within um 891 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:15,360 Fargo's jurisdiction. And so, my comments or my questions to to them was 892 01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:19,840 if if Horace is paying for the infrastructure, does Horace have 893 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:24,600 exclusive use of it? If Horace doesn't have exclusive use of it, 894 01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:28,480 or if there are any connections to it, will Horace be paid for those 895 01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:33,320 connections? Um and so I received a response from 896 01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:37,320 them saying that um 897 01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:40,160 that that portion will be uh 898 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:42,960 used exclusively for the city of Horace, but Fargo wants it 899 01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:46,000 um wants the agreement to to leave the 900 01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:49,320 language the way it is because they'll have maintenance responsibilities of it 901 01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:53,240 and so they want it to stay. So I'll just read 902 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:56,880 um what they provided. So with respect to the force main, I confirmed with 903 01:01:54,680 --> 01:02:00,840 Nathan, um who is the assistant city engineer, that the force main is being 904 01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:05,680 constructed, installed solely for the benefit of Horace, but the force main 905 01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:09,880 will be within Fargo. In other words, this force main is being placed solely 906 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:14,040 to benefit Horace, which is why the agreement is structured for Horace to 907 01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:17,880 pay for it. Fargo, however, will need to oversee the maintenance and repairs of 908 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:22,880 the force main since it is located within Fargo per section 4B, Fargo does 909 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:26,680 not have the ability to allow any connections to the force main without 910 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:31,120 Horace's approval. The city is fine with your edits to 911 01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:34,840 section 4B, but I wanted to clarify why Horace is paying for the force main. 912 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:38,880 Uh and then just goes on to say, I believe this has been discussed and 913 01:02:36,160 --> 01:02:44,640 cleared with Jim Dollman. So I think the council had some questions on that exact 914 01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:47,960 matter. So for the council's uh awareness 915 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,680 that's why it's structured the way it is. So Horace is paying for it, but 916 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:54,920 Horace will have exclusive use of it. Fargo will um 917 01:02:53,640 --> 01:03:00,200 maintain it. So that, like I said, that was was the 918 01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:03,720 big concern I had for that. The other one um 919 01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:11,040 » And it's written in there um that they have to 920 01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:14,600 if somebody wanted to tie in, they would have to 921 01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:17,160 » Horace Horace has to be part of that that approval. 922 01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:21,200 » And we have What was I reading? We have a right to 923 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:23,720 object to any work on the Forest Main so does I 924 01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:32,120 » So yeah, that some of that language comes from where Dwyer was is what I 925 01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:35,760 added into the agreement was just allowing the city of Horace to 926 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:39,480 reasonably object object to some of these matters. 927 01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:39,480 Um 928 01:03:40,520 --> 01:03:48,720 And so that's that is in section 4B. 929 01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:52,920 » Yeah. >> Um where it talks about uh giving Horace 930 01:03:51,320 --> 01:03:58,280 that 90 days for budgeting and then it also says Horace has the opportunity to 931 01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:02,120 reasonably object to any such project. If Horace does not provide a reasonable 932 01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:06,480 objection within the 90-day period, Fargo may proceed with the project. 933 01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:10,720 So that's um that's in reference to infrastructure to 934 01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:12,040 accommodate point of connection two. >> Can you 935 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:16,440 Can [clears throat] you give me an example of what that would be, Jim? 936 01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:21,000 Like what and what improvement would they 937 01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:25,360 Like give me an example of >> there's a break in the main or they 938 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,200 needed a valve was stuck and they needed to replace a valve, 939 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:31,720 they would be >> Which obviously we would need to fix. 940 01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:34,320 Like we wouldn't really want to be objecting to that. Okay. 941 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:38,240 » No, of course not. I think just in theory like 942 01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:40,880 if we pay for it and they're just doing I mean 943 01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:41,800 » using it for expansion. >> Right. 944 01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:44,800 » Yeah. >> Right. 945 01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:47,480 » We didn't want that. >> of 946 01:04:46,120 --> 01:04:52,360 matters, Councilmember Dwyer, that's why I put in there that objection portion of 947 01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:55,400 it's for Horace's awareness and Horace's ability to object to it or at least have 948 01:04:53,920 --> 01:04:57,120 a conversation on okay, why are you doing this? How much is it going to 949 01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,520 cost? >> Right. 950 01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:03,280 » Is there a way that we can do more of a minimal type repair, minimal type 951 01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:07,360 project? So that >> So but Jim, you just said for expansion 952 01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:10,440 if they were to like expand. I thought we had to 953 01:05:08,680 --> 01:05:12,880 » We don't We didn't want that. >> Okay. 954 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:15,240 » That was what this was for was that that infrastructure paid for by Horace 955 01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:18,840 outside of the >> Will not. Okay. 956 01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:21,520 » isn't going to be used by another agency. 957 01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:30,480 » Okay. >> I do have a question further on down 958 01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,480 when you get to it. 959 01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:37,200 Um so moving down 960 01:05:38,560 --> 01:05:41,640 item number 14. 961 01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:46,880 » 14? >> Yeah. 962 01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:50,920 Um so I have in there a note, ensure Horace knows about this provision prior 963 01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:54,480 to decommissioning the lagoons. That still says we will retain one pond. Is 964 01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:57,520 that correct? Okay. And Jimmy, you're okay with that? 965 01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:01,240 » It's creating a surge tank basically for those high water events where they're 966 01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:05,600 going to charge us more. We can regulate the flow going there and not have that 967 01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:09,360 double per thousand gallon per thousand charge. 968 01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:12,360 » Were we always intending on decommissioning all but one lagoon? I 969 01:06:11,040 --> 01:06:14,120 guess I pictured that we were always planning on decommissioning all the 970 01:06:13,640 --> 01:06:17,840 lagoons. >> It's come up as the project has kind of 971 01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:21,200 evolved. The ability to maintain the furthest 972 01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:25,040 west one next to the drain cuz it's really not a developable area. 973 01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:30,040 And it allows some more efficiencies in operation to the city for us and not 974 01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:34,800 just sending all the clear water or or the higher flows to Fargo at $6 or 975 01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,720 whatever it is, double per thousand that it would be 976 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:40,400 for the >> But would that be would that be only for 977 01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:42,360 part of the community then? Cuz I thought some of them go directly to 978 01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:44,280 Fargo. >> It would be for only part of it, yeah. 979 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,800 » Okay. >> Those that originally come to lift 980 01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:51,880 station number one now. >> Okay. So we would be able to have our 981 01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:57,280 staff if there was some kind of thing going on 982 01:06:54,480 --> 01:07:00,880 with the lift stations, we could stop it over there, but we could still get the 983 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:05,320 fees from the ones that connect directly. 984 01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:09,560 » Correct. But there is an interconnect at lift station four and we'd be taking a 985 01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:13,000 couple other ones off Deer Creek to go down to the south. 986 01:07:12,120 --> 01:07:16,640 » Oh, okay. >> be as drastic as what 987 01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:20,520 » What we've had. Okay. >> At least the one time. 988 01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:25,480 » Okay. So, when that happens, just for my own uh 989 01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:28,840 understanding, like in an event a rain event and we 990 01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:32,600 have a big downpour or something, like let's say 991 01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:36,520 that happened at like 3:00 in the morning, 992 01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:40,040 does our staff get an alert then that they need to do something to put it to 993 01:07:39,360 --> 01:07:43,080 the lagoon? >> would, yeah. They they get notified from 994 01:07:41,960 --> 01:07:45,920 all the lift stations when something happens or there's something going on, 995 01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:49,560 but if there's an anticipation or something, they can get out ahead of it 996 01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:54,160 and turn some valves and and relocate some of that raw sewage. 997 01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:59,120 » would be maybe a question uh Joel, like that's the expectation then that if 998 01:07:56,640 --> 01:08:02,200 we're keeping that lagoon, our city staff would know like, "Hey, I got to 999 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:04,640 get up and like take care of this." >> Yeah, there's multiple different ways. 1000 01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:08,040 There's obviously a physical valve the guys can out there 2:00 or 3:00 in the 1001 01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:11,640 morning do, or there's with our Insight that controls all of our lift stations, 1002 01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:15,560 there's other ways to kind of automate that process depending on how often it's 1003 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,040 used. If it's getting used once or twice a year, 1004 01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:20,520 probably not worth, you know, spending the money to automate it, but if it's 1005 01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:23,520 going to be something that happens, you know, monthly a couple times a month, 1006 01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:26,319 then it'd be something we'd look into. >> Okay. 1007 01:08:23,839 --> 01:08:30,880 » So, moving on down to number 17 then, with what you just said, Jim, 1008 01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:34,839 um how does that work if uh we don't have the ability to reroute part of our 1009 01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:39,319 city and the fire department can just shut us off 1010 01:08:36,520 --> 01:08:43,160 due to an event? >> What we relied on in the past is um 1011 01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:46,480 shutting the lift stations down and then shuttling it to the lagoon 1012 01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:51,000 via um a vacuum truck. 1013 01:08:48,759 --> 01:08:54,640 Use the lift station wet well itself, let it fill up, 1014 01:08:52,440 --> 01:08:57,680 pump it out, take it to the lagoons. >> So, there is some process at least if 1015 01:08:57,080 --> 01:09:01,640 all >> pump it out into a truck, yeah. 1016 01:08:59,319 --> 01:09:04,520 » Okay, so if if worse happens, you know, we have some sort of ability to do 1017 01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:05,799 something. >> Correct. 1018 01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:11,000 » Understood. >> Is maintaining one lagoon a safety net 1019 01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:15,080 because of this uh dependence that we will have on the city 1020 01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:20,000 of Fargo? Okay. And then, Joel, 1021 01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:23,040 like I just want to make sure like has our 1022 01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:27,359 public works staff seen these points? Like are they comfortable 1023 01:09:25,080 --> 01:09:31,520 with I mean, emergency Fargo Manor up services? Like 1024 01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:34,480 » Yeah, it's kind of goes with the job, unfortunately. You know, anytime there's 1025 01:09:32,839 --> 01:09:37,359 an emergency, you know, it's snowfall in the middle of the night, you know, the 1026 01:09:35,480 --> 01:09:40,160 water main breaks or force main break, you know, it's just unfortunately part 1027 01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:43,000 of the job that uh that's why we always have at least one member on call. 1028 01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:45,680 » Okay. >> 24/7. 1029 01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:51,839 » Okay. >> One other question, when those events 1030 01:09:47,839 --> 01:09:56,680 happen where we do divert water to the which will be the lone lagoon. 1031 01:09:54,279 --> 01:10:00,560 Uh the percent uh is there an estimated percentage of 1032 01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:05,720 what what that mix will be of rain water versus, you know, standard sewage? Is it 1033 01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:08,240 like a 20%? Is it like a How diluted down typically is it that's going to go 1034 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:12,440 into that? >> Typically very little of it is actual 1035 01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:15,600 sewage. The majority of it is, you know, gray water. 1036 01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,680 » rain water, 5%? >> Correct. 1037 01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:21,160 » Okay. >> Something in that ballpark. 1038 01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:25,000 » Okay. So, 95% rain water. I think I I just for the people in that area so that 1039 01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:29,120 they would know, okay, when there's a rain water event, it's 1040 01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:32,360 going to be 95%. >> Right. It'll The lagoons will be fenced 1041 01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:36,240 off like they currently are and it The only adjacent building will be the 1042 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,880 future public works building. So, there won't be, you know, it won't be in the 1043 01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:41,960 backyard of a neighborhood or anything like that. 1044 01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,960 » Okay. 1045 01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:50,120 » It seems like you added in a section, too, to protect 1046 01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:50,120 um if there's a dispute on rates. 1047 01:10:50,320 --> 01:10:53,000 So, that's good. 1048 01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:59,240 » I want to say that one was done before. >> Okay. Okay. 1049 01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,200 » Then the the last one I had was 1050 01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:08,680 um in the event of termination of the 1051 01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:13,040 agreement I had concerns with with how section 15 1052 01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:17,360 was worded. Uh and so we agreed to add a sentence that if termination occurs 1053 01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:22,960 under this provision, then the May 8th, 2017 sewer agreement shall be uh 1054 01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:27,520 reinstated cuz right now this MOU replaces the previous one that the 1055 01:11:24,800 --> 01:11:30,440 parties entered into in 2017. So for any reason the courts or 1056 01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:35,240 um some jurisdiction says that this MOU is 1057 01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:38,280 invalid, we'll go back to the previous one that the parties had. And then 1058 01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:43,240 that's that was it for changes to that MOU. 1059 01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:50,320 So any other questions on that one? 1060 01:11:51,800 --> 01:11:57,400 » No. Thank you for Thanks for getting some of 1061 01:11:55,240 --> 01:12:01,120 those things clarified that I talked with Jim about. Um 1062 01:12:02,840 --> 01:12:07,360 You guys have any concerns? >> Uh question for Brett and probably a 1063 01:12:05,760 --> 01:12:11,640 number 19. Um currently do we do anything in 1064 01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:15,080 reference to that? Enforcement. 1065 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:17,400 » Is there a variance to stormwater compliance? 1066 01:12:15,800 --> 01:12:20,320 » Well, it says "Horace will take appropriate steps to enforce the sewer 1067 01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:25,200 ordinance and amend from time to time including a program of inspections." 1068 01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:32,560 » So currently we don't really do a whole lot with the stormwater enforcement. We 1069 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:37,560 can if the council would like us to take a lot harder stance on that. Uh we have 1070 01:12:35,080 --> 01:12:42,080 the ability we have a we our equipment to be able to fog out 1071 01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:45,920 per se like a house to be able to see if they're discharging out or into the 1072 01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:48,400 sanitary sewer system. Uh 1073 01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:52,960 haven't used it yet cuz it wouldn't be a very popular thing, but if the council 1074 01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:56,480 does want to tighten that up and do that enforcement we could go through 1075 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:59,880 putting some more teeth into that ordinance to where we could 1076 01:12:58,760 --> 01:13:03,440 do that. Now we have a fairly basic ordinance we 1077 01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:06,800 could we could put more teeth into it and propose that for council 1078 01:13:05,480 --> 01:13:10,360 uh if you wanted to. >> And I have requested that as part of our 1079 01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:15,280 inspections our final inspection to make sure that it's done and actually Yeah. 1080 01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:17,600 Directed appropriately not pointed at the sewer. 1081 01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:22,800 » Yeah, we could do that during the final inspection but somebody does change that 1082 01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:26,920 up later and that's a valve you just change on your house so people could 1083 01:13:25,480 --> 01:13:31,720 if they're not changing it during the season like they are supposed to 1084 01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:34,640 that's where you'd have like the smoking smoke up machine or things like that you 1085 01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:38,760 could do. >> Yep. So. 1086 01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:42,320 » But checking during inspection we could do we could do that. 1087 01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:45,920 » I guess my concern is in reference to that particular. Right now it doesn't 1088 01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:50,120 sound like we have a program so it'll probably cause us to do something 1089 01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:54,400 in relation to this so. >> But 1090 01:13:51,360 --> 01:14:00,800 You you see some other cities will have where I think West Fargo has where folks 1091 01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:05,240 could pay like a voluntary charge or of a certain amount I think 1092 01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:08,400 it's like $100 they could pay to where they're able to 1093 01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:12,000 legally discharge into the sanitary sewer. 1094 01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:17,600 Uh I believe that's intended to help just cover the additional cost. 1095 01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:21,920 Uh if somebody is not complying my understanding is then 1096 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:24,640 like the city could address them through compliance a lot 1097 01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:27,960 more. But 1098 01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:31,360 that's one option there but what I believe throughout the metro area is 1099 01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:35,960 voluntary compliance. That's why you see like news will have 1100 01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:41,120 reminders out for people cities will be kicking out reminders saying hey 1101 01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:43,600 please discharge your sump pumps so outside 1102 01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:47,680 that's why you'll see that on the news at times. Cities will try to push that 1103 01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:51,240 out and push for voluntary compliance more often than not. That's what we try 1104 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:55,520 to get. >> We did redo our sewer ordinance in 2024 1105 01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:59,600 and there is a clause in there about sump pumps going to the sanitary. So, we 1106 01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:02,200 do have it written in our ordinance currently. 1107 01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:06,800 » Yeah, I guess that what I'm saying is according to this agreement, we have to 1108 01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:10,200 come up with something more than what we're doing. 1109 01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:16,760 » And and I can understand that. I mean, right now the the cost is going to go up 1110 01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:19,040 considerably if we have another event. >> Yeah. 1111 01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:27,640 » I and and I I equally support that. I you know, my sump is draining out in my 1112 01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:31,440 yard. You can walk in my backyard and see it. 1113 01:15:29,080 --> 01:15:37,320 You know, I'm complying. It's not It's not convenient to have this the way it 1114 01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:40,560 is, but I mean, it is what it is. So, I I 1115 01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:44,040 If somebody's not complying with this, maybe because they don't know or I I I 1116 01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:47,560 mean, I or maybe they do know, but they don't care. I I don't know, but 1117 01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:51,280 we're all in the same boat here with getting these these bills from Fargo 1118 01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:56,480 now. And and we we've definitely got to do what we can to to mitigate those 1119 01:15:55,480 --> 01:16:00,840 um mitigate those big utility bills. So, we 1120 01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:04,520 we I I certainly don't want that to go up because somebody just doesn't doesn't 1121 01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:08,640 care to um 1122 01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:12,040 to to comply with the city ordinance on how to discharge your sump. So, 1123 01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:17,560 » Uh at one point, we were looking at having a code enforcement officer. 1124 01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,880 But somehow Don Dabbert took him. Kidding. 1125 01:16:18,502 --> 01:16:21,680 » [laughter] >> I'm kidding. 1126 01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:25,052 So, but yes, we will have to look at, you know, finding a code enforcement 1127 01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:26,960 officer at some point and um >> [clears throat] 1128 01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:29,920 » finding a way to start enforcing some of this. 1129 01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:33,560 » I I would do anticipate it would take a significant amount of time for that 1130 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:37,200 enforcement if we were to be doing it across the board. So, 1131 01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:42,360 » All right. Anything else? 1132 01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:46,040 » No. 1133 01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:50,840 » Okay. All right. Hearing seeing none, I'm 1134 01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:53,400 going to look for a motion. See what you guys think. 1135 01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:05,680 » All right, then I'll make a motion to approve the sanitary sewer agreement. 1136 01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,640 » Okay. >> Uh 1137 01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:12,640 the changes that were made by Mr. Kroger. 1138 01:17:10,160 --> 01:17:17,600 » Okay. So, Naomi made a motion to approve the sanitary sewer agreement MOU with 1139 01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:21,240 the said changes by uh Lucas Kroger. 1140 01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:23,560 I'll look for a second. >> I'll second. 1141 01:17:22,240 --> 01:17:25,000 » I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. 1142 01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:27,933 » Aye. >> Aye. 1143 01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,040 » All right, motion carries. >> [sighs] 1144 01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:32,600 » Okay. Um 1145 01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:37,320 moving on then to uh item number 12, Lost River Pond. Jim, you have this one? 1146 01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:40,920 » Yes, Mr. Mayor and Council. This is more of an update than anything else. 1147 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:45,680 Um at the last meeting the developer of Lost River came forward with a I guess 1148 01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:48,880 kind of a concept or potential proposal for 1149 01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:52,160 um some of the cattail removal of the Lost River Pond. 1150 01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:55,960 Um we had a little bit of an estimate with that and some plan sheets that went 1151 01:17:53,840 --> 01:18:00,040 along with it that resolv- resolved in or needed some easements and some other 1152 01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:04,920 access. We did have a meeting last Monday to talk a little bit about that. 1153 01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:08,200 Um basically we there something needs to come forward with a plan, be it either 1154 01:18:06,360 --> 01:18:12,560 HOA driven, be it city driven, be it a participation between either. Um 1155 01:18:11,240 --> 01:18:16,640 right now we just don't have how that's going to come forward to the city 1156 01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:21,160 council yet. There are some things we worked out on the side too of if the 1157 01:18:18,600 --> 01:18:24,520 city is all right with an HOA working in that area, if it's 1158 01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:29,400 has to be an agreement or something done with that for constructability and and 1159 01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:32,400 other stuff. So, it this is unless any one of the council members has an 1160 01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:39,320 opinion on this that they like to share, I think we're more of just still in the 1161 01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:44,440 gathering mode for it for right now. >> Do you have a timeline? 1162 01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:48,440 » Hasn't been fast enough. I mean >> I mean I'm just wondering cuz we've like 1163 01:18:46,280 --> 01:18:52,000 had this on the agenda so much time and I'm just wondering like when we can 1164 01:18:51,640 --> 01:18:55,640 be >> Right. I would agree with you. 1165 01:18:53,480 --> 01:18:57,560 » Cuz people are probably exhausted. >> Yeah. 1166 01:18:56,800 --> 01:19:01,600 » Do you think you could work on a timeline on it? 1167 01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:04,000 » Well, I don't know what how long it takes to get the information that 1168 01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:08,080 they're looking for. I mean >> I guess the question is this is the city 1169 01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:11,560 willing to put money towards it? Is the city city not willing? 1170 01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:15,600 That we don't have a quote or anything from a contract. We don't have any type 1171 01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:20,040 of a bid. The estimate was significantly below the $250,000 1172 01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:23,440 bid threshold, so it could be a quotable project. We have done improvements 1173 01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:26,680 through quotes before. Would it be the city leading that 1174 01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:29,560 effort? Would it be a developer leading that effort? 1175 01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:34,760 And what does the cost look like on the back end? I think the money is where 1176 01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:39,320 the question lies. And then what is the city council's 1177 01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:45,480 wishes when it comes to working on within the public right of way 1178 01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:45,480 as a private entity. 1179 01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:52,560 » I guess is what I'd like to see is uh kind of a brief on the project, what 1180 01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,040 occurred. Uh 1181 01:19:53,120 --> 01:20:00,680 there was some language in the contract, uh some information about that. 1182 01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:04,040 What we started out with as far as uh an issue in the pond, how much sludge 1183 01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:08,400 there was in the pond, how many cattails were there in the pond at that time. 1184 01:20:06,360 --> 01:20:10,160 Uh and and really some answers related to 1185 01:20:09,400 --> 01:20:14,280 uh you know, what was the city's obligation 1186 01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:18,120 back at that point and really what it is what the obligation is today. 1187 01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:21,360 And I mean this has big impacts on us for the future because of these 1188 01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:25,160 decisions. There's a lot of ponds in the city. 1189 01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:28,120 Uh if we accept responsibility, uh I would think you would be setting a 1190 01:20:26,600 --> 01:20:31,640 precedent, but I certainly don't want to do that without having all the 1191 01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:36,560 information. So I would ask that a brief be completed in reference to 1192 01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:39,840 what we're really looking at here. >> Like a history of what's happened and 1193 01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:46,480 » Yep. >> what was expected to have happened 1194 01:20:43,920 --> 01:20:51,120 including with the recent construction or work done on it. 1195 01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:55,680 » What I'd be looking at is is what the condition of the pond was when the pond 1196 01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:58,960 contract was awarded uh 1197 01:20:56,600 --> 01:21:02,160 for the cattail removal. Uh how much were they over there in the 1198 01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:06,040 steer wise? Was it full like it is today with cattails? 1199 01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:09,840 Uh was it not? I don't know cuz I I wasn't there. I didn't see it. Uh how 1200 01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:12,440 much sludge was in there at that time and possibly how much is in there at 1201 01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:16,560 this time if it's available for information. Really just to see what our 1202 01:21:14,720 --> 01:21:22,480 obligation is uh in relation to what we originally 1203 01:21:18,840 --> 01:21:22,480 said that we agreed we would do. 1204 01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:30,200 » But my question also is was the pond designed to have regular maintenance 1205 01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:35,720 come in and out of the pond without destroying sidewalks and trees and and 1206 01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:39,280 and walking path whatever. Was it designed okay you're it's going to have 1207 01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:44,040 maintenance and here's where the maintenance vehicles come in and out to 1208 01:21:41,480 --> 01:21:46,640 to work on the pond. What is it was was the original design set up 1209 01:21:45,440 --> 01:21:48,880 » So, there's a shared use >> or our pond go ahead. 1210 01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:51,200 » Oh. >> There's a shared use path on the north 1211 01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:56,120 side. There's a shared use path on the south side. It's typically 5-in 1212 01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:59,440 reinforced concrete. Typical for light duty trucks. Maybe not necessarily for 1213 01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:02,120 heavy duty equipment. >> Okay. 1214 01:21:59,760 --> 01:22:05,800 » With this being a wet pond, there is some additional maintenance maybe that 1215 01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:08,360 comes along with that through the silt silt and sediment and and whatever. 1216 01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:13,320 » Mhm. >> Um but access is limited with heavy 1217 01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:19,240 equipment. It is. >> So, what we're saying is the the the 1218 01:22:15,680 --> 01:22:22,200 pond was not designed to have the the size and equip the amount of equipment 1219 01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:26,440 that would I guess that we're being we're at being 1220 01:22:23,720 --> 01:22:28,800 asked to What the and get it back to where it where it needs to be. 1221 01:22:27,560 --> 01:22:32,000 » And I don't know what the what the intent of getting equipment in there in 1222 01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:36,360 the in the past. You know, we did the city did a mock excavation of the Maple 1223 01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:39,640 Grove Pond. Maple Grove Pond was right off of a city 1224 01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:44,000 street. We're able to back up trucks right to it, drive an excavator, drive a 1225 01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:46,600 dozer right down there and not go across concrete, not go across finished 1226 01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:48,760 backyards. >> Okay. 1227 01:22:47,040 --> 01:22:53,640 » Stay within a right-of-way or a parking lot. So, access is a bit of a challenge 1228 01:22:51,640 --> 01:22:58,080 to this area. When the city did the project in 2 years ago, it was we had an 1229 01:22:56,120 --> 01:23:02,200 easement across a lot that didn't have a home built on it at the time. There's 1230 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:06,360 since been a home built on that. So, the proposal that was brought forth um 1231 01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:10,960 2 weeks ago had or 3 weeks ago at this time had 1232 01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:16,600 getting a private easement on a lot that doesn't have a home on it on this north 1233 01:23:14,160 --> 01:23:20,880 west corner, but there is still crossing of the concrete shared use path that 1234 01:23:18,640 --> 01:23:24,680 would have to be have to be done to get down there. So, 1235 01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:27,560 would heavy trucks going down there damage the sidewalk? 1236 01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:31,080 Pretty good chance. Getting a any type of tracked machinery 1237 01:23:29,720 --> 01:23:34,200 down there could be done, mud mats, that type of 1238 01:23:32,480 --> 01:23:37,680 stuff, but it's not super super easy, I guess is 1239 01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:42,600 what I would say. >> So, so we're saying the pond was not 1240 01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:46,280 designed designed to have the type of The original design was not to have the 1241 01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:51,480 type of equipment to come in and do the maintenance of what we're proposing or 1242 01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:55,000 what what what is needed or >> I would say that there's always a means 1243 01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:58,800 of getting in there. Like I said, mud mats or something like that. 1244 01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:01,720 » Do Do we need to start develop these designing these ponds with with access 1245 01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:04,880 for for this type of >> we are looking into that. This was the 1246 01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:09,600 second storm water pond that was constructed with new subdivision. So, 1247 01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:14,320 allowing access, getting to them with vac trucks, getting to pump stations 1248 01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:19,240 with vac trucks, getting to um these these areas with maintenance equipment 1249 01:24:16,520 --> 01:24:22,640 is definitely more of a priority now than it would have been at that time. 1250 01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:26,320 » Well, I mean, okay, there's nothing in our packet and I feel like there's kind 1251 01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:29,560 of no new info. >> Not much. 1252 01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:34,920 » What came from the meeting? >> Basically, we just talked about here's 1253 01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:39,320 what the estimate was based off of. We looked at some pictures from the 1254 01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:43,800 project. We looked at some pictures from the Maple Grove cleanout and there was a 1255 01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:48,440 dozer up to its middle of its tracks in muck. There was a excavator in the pond 1256 01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:52,160 up to the turntable in in um the muck and then we showed the 1257 01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:55,760 trucks backing in and out of there, which 1258 01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:59,800 raised the question of constructability and how do you get the equipment down 1259 01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:03,080 there? And it it might not be just as as straightforward as we'd like to think it 1260 01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:09,200 it is. Just with that other example that we had from 2017. 1261 01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:12,200 And that's really where where it lied. >> But okay, 1262 01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:17,280 Councilmember Renner brought up really good questions, but I also feel like 1263 01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:19,680 these are things that we should almost know by now, right? Like we just 1264 01:25:18,960 --> 01:25:22,600 keep spinning our wheels. >> together. We'll We'll put it together. 1265 01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:26,880 We'll We'll put that information together. I've I've done some research 1266 01:25:24,520 --> 01:25:30,560 on it. Um I just didn't have a chance to put it all together for 1267 01:25:28,280 --> 01:25:33,240 you tonight. So, I will do that. 1268 01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:35,280 » Could we get it by the next meeting and then with the intent that we have a 1269 01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:37,520 discussion and >> Right. Like 1270 01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:40,200 » move forward for some people one way or the other. 1271 01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:43,520 If possible. >> Mr. Mayor, [clears throat] 1272 01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:47,440 would you be okay if I asked them a question? 1273 01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:50,160 The people who are here for the Last River Pond. 1274 01:25:49,480 --> 01:25:54,880 » Go ahead. >> I just have a quick question for you. 1275 01:25:52,280 --> 01:26:01,920 Are you for your level of expectation for the pond, is it that you want to see 1276 01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:08,560 like minimal cattails, zero cattails? What level of 1277 01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:12,920 expectation? Because I don't think I've actually heard what your level of 1278 01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:15,800 expectation is for the pond. Can I just ask that really quick? 1279 01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:18,600 » I guess for for me, 1280 01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:21,600 I've got [clears throat] a reasonable ex- expectation that it's never going to 1281 01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:23,800 be perfect. >> Okay. 1282 01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:28,440 » You know, and and it's we got to be realistic here. 1283 01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:31,240 Not looking for the pristine way it was even 5 years ago when it was new. 1284 01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:34,640 » Mhm. >> But just a radical significant 1285 01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:36,560 improvement would be desirable. 1286 01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:40,400 » Okay. >> If I can just piggyback off of that, I 1287 01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:43,400 think from my perspective it's like what we were sold on, right? Like what 1288 01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:45,000 it looked like. There was cattails in the middle of the bed. 1289 01:26:44,480 --> 01:26:48,840 » Okay. >> A significant amount of cattails. And to 1290 01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:53,280 your concern about whether it's designed to do the amount of remediation it needs 1291 01:26:50,840 --> 01:26:57,600 now, that implicates this idea that there hasn't been any maintenance for 5 1292 01:26:55,240 --> 01:27:02,200 years. So, was it designed to do the like the drastic amount of remediation 1293 01:26:59,360 --> 01:27:06,040 now? Maybe it wasn't, but that's comes in part because of the lack of 1294 01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:08,760 maintenance for the the lack of minimal maintenance for the last 5 1295 01:27:08,080 --> 01:27:11,480 years. That has >> So, 1296 01:27:09,560 --> 01:27:16,280 » drastically gotten worse every year. >> I know like the city's kind of like in 1297 01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:20,960 this weird spot of like stormwater ponds 1298 01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:25,200 to city staff, they serve a purpose and it's not necessarily to them like an 1299 01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:29,800 aesthetic thing. To you guys, you're just looking for it to do its purpose, 1300 01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:32,720 but also be a little bit more cleaned up. 1301 01:27:30,680 --> 01:27:37,840 Um my I just need to know one more question so 1302 01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:41,840 that I can help determine next meeting. 1303 01:27:39,800 --> 01:27:46,200 If you guys what's your what's your level of 1304 01:27:43,480 --> 01:27:52,200 expectation as far as beautification? I mean, is this something that you guys 1305 01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:57,480 uh the community in that area would want to have the HOA start doing more 1306 01:27:55,080 --> 01:28:02,400 beautification over there? Um because the city it um 1307 01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:07,360 in my opinion, we can't the the resources are just not there for 1308 01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:12,600 the beautification aspect of it. So, I I guess for me to make a decision in 1309 01:28:09,200 --> 01:28:16,840 moving forward with whatever comes um to us for from staff. 1310 01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:21,320 I guess is the level of expectation that the 1311 01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:26,080 residents in that area would be willing to work with the HOA to make sure that 1312 01:28:24,720 --> 01:28:30,040 it's Okay, I'm seeing heads shaking. Yes. 1313 01:28:27,680 --> 01:28:36,320 » I feel like a one-time cleanup and then a continual HOA or maybe a yearly 1314 01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:39,560 check-in from the city staff or what would 1315 01:28:38,400 --> 01:28:43,320 » It feels like there's been like a miscommunication between the HOA and the 1316 01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:47,200 city as to who has the right or the responsibility to maintain it. 1317 01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:47,200 » Okay. 1318 01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:52,280 Okay. So, that helps. Um, 1319 01:28:53,280 --> 01:28:55,680 Sure. 1320 01:28:55,880 --> 01:29:02,600 » One more thing, the project last year, I think that was that expectation that 1321 01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:05,240 they had the access to the pond. It was in there to clean it out. 1322 01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:08,120 » Yeah. Okay. 1323 01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,120 » Right. 1324 01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:15,160 » Okay. Thank you. 1325 01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:19,280 » And there was funds allocated and approved by the council to to to to do 1326 01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:23,280 some sort of cleaning that never got done. It got repaired but it wasn't 1327 01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:23,280 cleaned. 1328 01:29:32,360 --> 01:29:37,840 » Okay. So, 1329 01:29:35,680 --> 01:29:42,240 thank you guys for just I need to I just need to like have some clarification on 1330 01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:46,360 some things in order to like figure out 1331 01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:53,480 what it is the ask is of me. Um, so Jim, given that there maybe is 1332 01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:57,840 some confusion on like HOA versus city, is that something that we need to also 1333 01:29:55,640 --> 01:30:01,800 can we put together an agreement on 1334 01:30:00,600 --> 01:30:05,080 whatever >> I think public works has been looking 1335 01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:09,280 for a level of expectation since the ponds were started 10 years ago. 1336 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:13,440 » Can we I [clears throat] think in order to for me anyways, and I don't want to 1337 01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:18,200 speak for the rest of council is if there seems to be this confusion of 1338 01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:22,800 cities, you know, city is like we're looking at it from a functional 1339 01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:28,040 standpoint versus the residents are looking at it from a different 1340 01:30:24,520 --> 01:30:33,200 standpoint or maybe a combination. Um I think it might be beneficial if we try 1341 01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:41,160 to figure this out um as far as getting a an agreement in place. And then also 1342 01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:45,080 um depending on that agreement that way we can try to make a decision on 1343 01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:50,400 something cuz I I I'm not going to lie, this is getting 1344 01:30:47,960 --> 01:30:54,280 it's keeps going and going and going and um as frustrated as I feel, I can only 1345 01:30:52,720 --> 01:30:58,280 imagine and and I and I I don't know 1346 01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:03,040 and I don't know what the right answer is. I guess what I'm looking for is we 1347 01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:09,320 have to start getting a level of understanding between the HOAs and these 1348 01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:14,320 ponds. And and also we need to have like a couple options. Here's what we can do. 1349 01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:18,680 Tell us council what you want us to do in a in an agreement with the HOA. 1350 01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:22,280 » So in terms of the agreement with the HOA, we have done that with recent 1351 01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:25,400 developments. So we can certainly draft that if that's the council's desire. 1352 01:31:23,720 --> 01:31:27,200 Just give the direction and I'll whip something up and you can take a look at 1353 01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:31,720 it. >> I I would prefer that we start like 1354 01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:35,760 moving on something. >> Could we Could you guys work on that 1355 01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:39,480 independently um with the HOA? I mean, that doesn't have 1356 01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:43,960 to be with us. I think the big decision is who's paying for the initial cleanup 1357 01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:48,440 and then what the ongoing maintenance looks like. Does seem like that could be 1358 01:31:46,280 --> 01:31:52,960 a document that perhaps comes to us, but that could be worked on 1359 01:31:51,120 --> 01:31:58,320 in the meantime. >> I mean, I just I don't think it's 1360 01:31:56,400 --> 01:32:04,040 I mean, I kind of share the same sentiment as uh 1361 01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:09,160 council member Renner because I mean, we have a lot of ponds. 1362 01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:13,280 The city's looking at functionality, and then we have We just need to make sure 1363 01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:18,200 that, like, we have the ducks in a row with the 1364 01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:23,480 agreements. Um, if there is that level of expectation to like make sure it's 1365 01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:26,603 not as I mean, it it does look swampy. It really does. 1366 01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:28,800 Um, >> [clears throat] 1367 01:32:26,640 --> 01:32:31,880 » and I do blame the 1368 01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:38,280 the actual construction of it, because it I I blame that it's not deep enough. 1369 01:32:36,080 --> 01:32:41,920 I don't know whose problem that is, but I do think that because it wasn't deep 1370 01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:46,520 enough when it was constructed, as you said, Jim, it was our second 1371 01:32:44,360 --> 01:32:50,680 second pond, you know? So, 1372 01:32:47,480 --> 01:32:56,800 I I I struggle because I agree with with, uh, Renner, but I also know that 1373 01:32:54,440 --> 01:33:01,520 we have been dealing with this same pond having so many issues. I want to see if 1374 01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:06,760 there's a like a one-and-done that we can come up with and move it 1375 01:33:04,160 --> 01:33:09,440 over to the HOA. >> So, in reference to the agreements, why 1376 01:33:08,280 --> 01:33:14,640 would we enter into individual agreements with different HOAs and not 1377 01:33:11,440 --> 01:33:19,840 just go with the blanket city policy? >> So, for for some of the developments, 1378 01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:23,280 it's been with the larger ponds and just who is responsible for what, because 1379 01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:26,880 around some of those larger ones, there's more infrastructure, and some of 1380 01:33:25,480 --> 01:33:31,520 it's city infrastructure, some of it's park, and so it's just outlining who is 1381 01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:36,040 responsible for what within those. For this type of pond, we typically don't 1382 01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:41,560 have any sort of agreement with the HOA. So, if there's a desire for a a policy 1383 01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:45,320 for these types of ponds instead of an agreement, that's fine, too, if that's 1384 01:33:43,480 --> 01:33:47,920 the desire of the council. Just give me the direction that you want, and we'll 1385 01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:53,360 » I'm fine with I'm fine with a policy, too. I just feel 1386 01:33:50,320 --> 01:34:00,600 like in order for me to make a decision where I can look at the HOA and say, 1387 01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:03,400 "I did my part, you do yours." Like if the residents have a level of 1388 01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:08,400 expectation, then you guys need to work together for 1389 01:34:05,960 --> 01:34:13,680 the pond as well because I I mean I can't I can't keep having 1390 01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:13,680 this. 1391 01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:21,000 » So my my thoughts are if the city isn't going to do anything or we were in 1392 01:34:18,760 --> 01:34:23,720 paralysis because we don't know what to do, 1393 01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:26,160 we at least need to say, "Okay, since we don't know what we're going to do, we 1394 01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:31,480 don't have the power to do anything, we're going to empower you guys 1395 01:34:28,520 --> 01:34:34,400 to say, I mean, 10 guys in chest waders, you know, going out there ripping them 1396 01:34:32,680 --> 01:34:38,600 out by hand. I mean, what what whatever it takes, you know. Um 1397 01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:42,400 we need to be able to empower them to to do something. 1398 01:34:40,600 --> 01:34:45,560 Say if somebody drowns or something like that while they're doing it, obviously 1399 01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:48,600 it's on city property, so we'd have to work out some sort of liability 1400 01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:51,400 something, right? And then whatever plan they'd come up 1401 01:34:50,320 --> 01:34:54,840 with, we'd have to have >> I think the issue is a little more than 1402 01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:57,840 just the cattails. I think it's all the sludge that's in there, so it's 1403 01:34:56,400 --> 01:35:00,160 » well, I mean, we're we're looking at the cattails. 1404 01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:03,760 » I think I I think you hit hit it or addressed it earlier with this city will 1405 01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:07,080 give you options at your next meeting. If you want to give me direction on 1406 01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:10,800 either agreement or to work up a policy for these types of ponds, let me know. 1407 01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:13,920 We'll get that whipped up, but it's I don't think you're going to come to any 1408 01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:16,200 sort of a motion tonight, so 1409 01:35:15,640 --> 01:35:18,920 » Agreed. >> a solution tonight. 1410 01:35:17,240 --> 01:35:23,720 » So let me look for a motion then to direct uh Jim to um prepare 1411 01:35:22,920 --> 01:35:25,520 uh an agenda item packet 1412 01:35:25,421 --> 01:35:29,680 » [clears throat] >> um to address 1413 01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:33,720 the options that we have for the Lost River Pond. Is that sufficient, Jim? 1414 01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:35,760 Perfect. >> I'll make motion. 1415 01:35:34,680 --> 01:35:38,560 » Thank you. I have a motion. Do I have a second? 1416 01:35:37,360 --> 01:35:40,520 » Yeah, I'll I'll second. >> I have a motion and a second. All those 1417 01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:41,600 in favor, say aye. >> Aye. 1418 01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:43,680 » Aye. >> Aye. 1419 01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:47,680 » All right, motion carries. Thank you for showing up tonight, folks. 1420 01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:51,400 » Thank you and thank you, Mr. Mayor, for allowing them to speak. 1421 01:35:50,240 --> 01:35:55,520 » All right. Coming up next, uh Lost River 8th 1422 01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:57,680 Edition. Jim, you got this one as well. >> All right, Mr. Mayor. 1423 01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:59,481 » myself from this one. Sorry to interrupt. 1424 01:35:58,240 --> 01:36:01,920 » Sorry. >> [snorts] 1425 01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:01,920 » Okay. 1426 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:10,600 » So, as the city tradition transitions away from special assessments versus 1427 01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:14,960 development projects, um the typical process for construction 1428 01:36:13,480 --> 01:36:18,560 engineering or for project inspection has been that the developer has the 1429 01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:21,480 option to design the project themselves, turn it over to the city, the city 1430 01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:25,400 constructs the project within the city right of way, it then accepts the 1431 01:36:23,120 --> 01:36:28,880 project and maintains it for future. This is one of the first ones that's 1432 01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:32,160 going to be privately funded, the construction portion of it, so there 1433 01:36:30,320 --> 01:36:37,520 won't be a request for reimbursement from the developer 1434 01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:40,680 um to to do that. So, at the March 16th, 2026 meeting, the decision was made by 1435 01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:44,360 the Horace City Council that the city engineer would be the doing the project 1436 01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:47,280 inspection, making sure that the project is built to the in accordance with the 1437 01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:51,360 plans and specifications, then ultimately accepting the project on 1438 01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:56,520 behalf of the city for the city to own and maintain for the rest of of time. 1439 01:36:53,800 --> 01:37:00,240 So, uh the first thing we have on here with the developer's request to amend 1440 01:36:58,400 --> 01:37:03,520 the developer's agreement, I believe Lucas can take that one. He handles the 1441 01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:07,440 agreement side of it, but it's a request from the developer to use their design 1442 01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:13,960 engineer for the construction side of it as well. So, um Lucas, are you 1443 01:37:11,480 --> 01:37:16,600 want to add on that or >> I don't think any I mean, based on 1444 01:37:15,520 --> 01:37:20,520 recent conversations, I don't think anything has to change to the 1445 01:37:18,040 --> 01:37:24,080 developer's agreement. It's just a matter of what level of services are 1446 01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:25,840 provided for in the document that you're presenting to the council. 1447 01:37:25,480 --> 01:37:29,960 » Okay. >> Is my understanding. 1448 01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:37,080 » So, with that being said, um and on your discr- your um 1449 01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:39,680 decision made in March, we did have an engineering services agreement with the 1450 01:37:38,320 --> 01:37:43,760 city engineer, Inner City Engineering, provided for your review tonight. Um 1451 01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:48,400 after discussions with the city attorney, we have a summary in here that 1452 01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:53,240 talks about the services that would be that would be provided. I can look at 1453 01:37:50,640 --> 01:37:56,600 that right now for you. We'll summarize it. So, we have resident 1454 01:37:55,280 --> 01:37:59,480 project representative. That's the one who's on site observing the construction 1455 01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:02,400 for uh making sure that it's built in 1456 01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:05,720 compliance with the project plans and specifications. 1457 01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:08,760 We have the construction administration phase, construction drawing modification 1458 01:38:07,640 --> 01:38:12,720 phase, post construction phase, and then GIS 1459 01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:17,360 mapping and data management phase. Uh the last two phases are what we've done 1460 01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:20,320 on all other projects when it comes to making sure the as-builts are correct, 1461 01:38:19,080 --> 01:38:23,920 making sure that the information gets put into the GIS mapping and the utility 1462 01:38:22,280 --> 01:38:26,240 viewer that the city has for public works use. 1463 01:38:25,320 --> 01:38:29,760 Um Lucas, when we were talking earlier 1464 01:38:27,480 --> 01:38:34,040 about the potential for task phases two and three to be removed from our 1465 01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:36,720 agreement, and that would be work that would be done by the design engineer at 1466 01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:40,200 that time. So, um 1467 01:38:38,400 --> 01:38:42,760 I'm fine with that if because the direction of the city at in the March 1468 01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:47,800 was for the inspection, so that would just 1469 01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:50,680 be phase one four and five. Um comments on that? 1470 01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:54,520 » Yes, essentially what we're trying to do with this is just to make sure that the 1471 01:38:52,160 --> 01:38:58,680 city has a representative involved with these developments from start to finish. 1472 01:38:56,280 --> 01:39:03,280 The city had ran into issues previously with developments that had no city 1473 01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:06,320 oversight, and the city continues to have issues come up in those 1474 01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:10,960 developments. Mostly, it's around drainage. And and so with this process, 1475 01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:15,640 the city's engineer will be involved with inspecting um first the the plans 1476 01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:19,320 and specs to make sure those are done in accordance with city standards. And then 1477 01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:22,800 while the project is actually being constructed, they'll do site visits to 1478 01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:26,600 ensure that the the work that the contractor is doing is actually 1479 01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:29,600 complying with those plans and specs. And again, it's making sure that the 1480 01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:34,400 city has that representation there from start to finish, and that is identified 1481 01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:37,920 within the developer's agreement. And now what Jim is presenting to you is 1482 01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:42,800 just the scope of services for the city engineer 1483 01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:45,360 with the city to do that level of work. >> Question. 1484 01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:48,280 » Um so 1485 01:39:46,360 --> 01:39:51,800 when the city constructs projects, it has a contingency in case things go 1486 01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:56,040 wrong. Um the developer taking this on his own, 1487 01:39:54,640 --> 01:40:01,360 does he have to set aside any kind of money um 1488 01:39:57,840 --> 01:40:05,160 for X number of months in case anything were to go wrong with the development? 1489 01:40:04,040 --> 01:40:08,080 » So that you know, I mean, I could take this and so that's it's on the developer 1490 01:40:06,520 --> 01:40:13,120 and that's why I want to be careful with what what connection the city engineer's 1491 01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:16,720 office has to the to the work and to the contractor. This will be owned by the 1492 01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:20,880 developer, not owned by the city. Typically, when we are working with 1493 01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:25,920 these projects, the city is the owner of the project. In this situation, the 1494 01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:30,920 city's not the owner of it until it is the infrastructure or the improvements 1495 01:40:28,160 --> 01:40:34,960 are accepted at the end. So those the infrastructure that gets installed has 1496 01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:38,960 to comply with city standards and the city engineer's approval before the city 1497 01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:44,000 will accept it. So the actual work getting done, that's on the developer 1498 01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:47,680 working with their design engineer and then the contractor who's selected by 1499 01:40:46,400 --> 01:40:50,400 the developer. 1500 01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:56,160 » Can I ask a question? So if 1501 01:40:52,480 --> 01:41:01,520 so if the developer is requesting that they have their own engineering 1502 01:40:58,480 --> 01:41:06,200 looking at and at the end we 1503 01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:10,240 like you said, accept like we we own it at the end. 1504 01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:15,080 If we're not how do we ensure 1505 01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:19,520 if we're not out there that we want to accept it then? 1506 01:41:17,320 --> 01:41:24,400 » So the city engineer's office will have a representative out there. That's where 1507 01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:29,360 he discusses the um the resident project representative. So 1508 01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:33,840 outlined within this document, they have what roles the resident 1509 01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:39,640 project representative does with inspecting the project. Um 1510 01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:42,200 so the city will have representation. >> I'm assuming that is through Interstate 1511 01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:44,320 Engineering then? >> Correct. 1512 01:41:42,840 --> 01:41:48,320 » And then uh I'm not going to assume, I'm going to 1513 01:41:45,480 --> 01:41:51,200 ask. Okay, what what are you looking at for 1514 01:41:49,680 --> 01:41:54,960 um how 1515 01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:58,120 often, how much this representative will be on site? 1516 01:41:56,360 --> 01:42:03,200 » So we got the contractor schedule. It's roughly 18 weeks. We're proposing this 1517 01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:06,040 as an hourly contract, not a percentage or nothing nothing like lump sum or 1518 01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:09,560 anything like that, just hourly. So while we're there, 1519 01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:13,720 I believe it was 450 hours a week for 18 weeks. Granted, if they're there, 1520 01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:17,480 there's there's not always a necessarily a reason. Do you have it there? 1521 01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:21,120 So 18 weeks at 50 hours per week and then we had a part-time for 2 weeks at 1522 01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:26,160 20 hours per week. So um obviously that if we reduce the 1523 01:42:24,200 --> 01:42:28,080 that is where our RPR is, yeah. So that's what our 1524 01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:33,680 thought is, 18 years. >> So with that or or you know, they doing 1525 01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:36,960 any of the surveying or the actual >> Surveying is being provided by the 1526 01:42:34,920 --> 01:42:40,320 contractor on this project. Typically, we do incorporate that on a city 1527 01:42:38,480 --> 01:42:41,920 project. We do provide that service. >> Okay. 1528 01:42:40,560 --> 01:42:45,560 » But um it's not really expressly written in the 1529 01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:52,400 in the uh private infrastructure policy. So we did 1530 01:42:48,680 --> 01:42:52,400 we didn't push on that one. 1531 01:42:52,640 --> 01:42:58,800 » Okay. Ross, I'll let you go. >> So uh is this a deviation from what your 1532 01:42:56,960 --> 01:43:01,840 standard practice has been? >> The way that it's funded is the 1533 01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:04,760 deviation from what the standard practice has been. Otherwise, this isn't 1534 01:43:03,440 --> 01:43:08,320 this is pretty much straight straight what what we've done in the past. 1535 01:43:06,040 --> 01:43:08,320 » Okay. 1536 01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:21,280 » Okay. I feel really stupid right now. I'm very sorry. 1537 01:43:19,720 --> 01:43:24,360 Um so are you saying 1538 01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:31,280 What am I What am I actually voting on here? Am I voting on 1539 01:43:29,680 --> 01:43:35,800 a different agreement? If I mean, I see Mr. Dwyer's 1540 01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:39,920 email here. He's requesting that he has his own 1541 01:43:37,800 --> 01:43:42,960 engineering and it's not the city. >> Correct. 1542 01:43:40,920 --> 01:43:45,191 » Is that what I'm voting on? >> So, what you're discussing tonight is 1543 01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:47,280 the >> [clears throat] 1544 01:43:45,240 --> 01:43:52,200 » city engineer provided you a memo with their scope of services. And so, 1545 01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:56,000 within that and based on our conversation, we're 1546 01:43:54,040 --> 01:44:00,240 going to modify that and he's just asking you to limit the scope of 1547 01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:03,760 services to Do you guys Are you guys all looking at 1548 01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:08,240 it? Do you Do you have it? So, on on page three 1549 01:44:05,840 --> 01:44:12,960 » Is it the Which which number? Wait, is it the 13A 1550 01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:15,040 developer agreement? >> It'd be 1551 01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:18,000 » B. >> B. 1552 01:44:15,200 --> 01:44:18,000 » 13B. 1553 01:44:23,440 --> 01:44:28,200 » Yeah, I don't know what the For A, I don't I don't know what the actual 1554 01:44:26,600 --> 01:44:32,520 request is. I I don't don't think I've ever seen it. 1555 01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:32,520 » Okay. So, 1556 01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:38,200 anyways, continue. >> I I was just going to say on A, my 1557 01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:41,640 understanding is the developer is asking to have their own engineer do the 1558 01:44:39,480 --> 01:44:46,440 construction engineering. And the city's practice, when the city 1559 01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:51,120 developed the privately funded public infrastructure policy earlier this year, 1560 01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:56,640 they used the definition saying inspections. 1561 01:44:53,880 --> 01:45:00,600 And council was very animate about having inspections done by the city 1562 01:44:59,280 --> 01:45:04,720 engineer. Now, I believe the understanding was 1563 01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:07,600 inspections includes construction engineering, like what Jim was talking 1564 01:45:06,160 --> 01:45:11,120 about there. The developer is asking to be able to 1565 01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:15,080 use their own engineer for construction engineering. Now, if they were to do 1566 01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:18,880 that, then 1567 01:45:16,960 --> 01:45:22,880 coun- we would basically need council to say yes or no. What do you want to do? 1568 01:45:21,240 --> 01:45:26,400 But, like I said, the council was very animate about 1569 01:45:24,480 --> 01:45:30,280 having the city engineer do inspections, and I believe the understanding was 1570 01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:35,400 inspections was covered that. So, 1571 01:45:31,560 --> 01:45:38,080 and then B is the whole agreement from Air State to what they typically do for 1572 01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:41,760 any development. >> Okay, so you're saying A and B on the 1573 01:45:40,640 --> 01:45:44,080 sheet, they're they're contradicting each 1574 01:45:43,240 --> 01:45:49,440 other. So, we need to decide A or B. 1575 01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:53,800 » Basically, the developer's asking for being able to have their own engineer 1576 01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:57,600 for construction engineering services, and use Air State 1577 01:45:55,040 --> 01:46:01,640 » believe for inspection. >> And B is 1578 01:45:59,880 --> 01:46:04,560 for Air State to do it. >> I 1579 01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:06,440 I think to put it in layman's terms, well, 1580 01:46:05,200 --> 01:46:10,000 that's what I do. I put things in layman's terms. 1581 01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:13,680 The two extremes are oh, we're getting overcharged and they're running up the 1582 01:46:11,440 --> 01:46:17,200 bill on us on one side. On the other side is oh, everything's going to get 1583 01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:19,880 rubber stamped. And we need to meet somewhere in the middle where obviously 1584 01:46:19,080 --> 01:46:23,560 the the engineering bill's not being run up, 1585 01:46:21,480 --> 01:46:25,920 and it's not getting rubber stamped. So, that that the goal is to meet somewhere 1586 01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:30,320 in the middle. >> Yeah, and so what I originally discussed 1587 01:46:28,120 --> 01:46:32,520 is doing what you're referring to right there, which is to bring everything into 1588 01:46:31,800 --> 01:46:34,680 the middle. >> Yeah. 1589 01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:37,800 » And that's the modifi- So, the developer's agreement with with with 1590 01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:41,160 what I'm saying, the developer's agreement does not have to change. The 1591 01:46:39,440 --> 01:46:45,040 way it's drafted now, it it should be fine to cover what the developer's 1592 01:46:42,600 --> 01:46:47,920 asking and what the city is requiring. >> Yeah. 1593 01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:51,800 » So, the and then the other part of that there where the modification is for kind 1594 01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:55,640 of what the developer's requesting is within the engineer's scope of services 1595 01:46:54,080 --> 01:47:00,800 to limit what's actually going to be done through the 1596 01:46:57,840 --> 01:47:05,360 um through the city's engineer, which is the one, four, and five that Jim 1597 01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:08,840 originally discussed. One being resident project representative, which that is 1598 01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:12,040 that's where we're talking about those inspections. So, they will do the 1599 01:47:10,520 --> 01:47:16,080 inspections, they'll review the plans inspect right away, and they will have a 1600 01:47:13,880 --> 01:47:20,440 representative on site on behalf of the city looking at those 1601 01:47:18,480 --> 01:47:24,560 improvements, monitoring construction as it progresses. 1602 01:47:21,840 --> 01:47:28,720 And then four is post-construction. And then, five is GIS mapping and data 1603 01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:32,200 management. So, what he's talking about getting rid of or taking out is the 1604 01:47:30,160 --> 01:47:36,200 construction administration and construction drawing modifications. That 1605 01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:39,880 will be the developer's engineer that will still be responsible for doing 1606 01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:44,000 that. So, Lowry will be responsible for those tasks. Interstate will be 1607 01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:49,360 responsible for one, four, and five. >> Oh, so it is a hybrid. Okay. 1608 01:47:46,680 --> 01:47:52,720 » Correct. And that's that's why to Councilmember 1609 01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:57,720 Chalmers' point, it's the meet in the middle with what 13A and 13B are saying. 1610 01:47:56,000 --> 01:48:01,240 » And And we're not accusing either engineering company of doing either 1611 01:47:59,280 --> 01:48:02,880 thing, but that that's the concern, I guess, what on either side. 1612 01:48:02,609 --> 01:48:05,560 [clears throat] >> No, what we're trying to do, too, is 1613 01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:08,240 like like Jim said, this is not typically how these developments are 1614 01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:10,560 done in the city. So, we want to make sure that we're getting this right. 1615 01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:14,840 » Yeah. And And I feel like 1616 01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:16,920 I understand their concern, but I also see our concern, too, is 1617 01:48:16,160 --> 01:48:22,640 » 1,000%. >> have 1618 01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:23,960 we we have some issues um from past Yeah, and and 1619 01:48:23,280 --> 01:48:26,640 » stuff. >> With you being on the Council for as 1620 01:48:25,080 --> 01:48:29,880 long as you you've been on the Council, you've seen it on multiple developments, 1621 01:48:28,120 --> 01:48:33,560 and it's the developments that are the older developments that the city wasn't 1622 01:48:31,400 --> 01:48:36,200 involved in, and then the request is, "Well, we were promised this. We We paid 1623 01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:39,760 » Mhm. >> you know, X for this lot, and now it 1624 01:48:38,120 --> 01:48:41,880 doesn't drain. City, fix it." And it's like, "Well, 1625 01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:44,160 our hands are kind of tied. We weren't involved with it at all. We don't know 1626 01:48:42,920 --> 01:48:47,000 what was done with that." >> So, would it be the expectation that 1627 01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:50,320 this would be the template going forward? 1628 01:48:48,240 --> 01:48:52,480 » We'd like to clean up the language to be If that is the case, yes. 1629 01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:55,680 » Perfect. >> Because I What I don't want is 1630 01:48:54,800 --> 01:48:58,760 to redo this because it's not right. 1631 01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:03,240 » Right. >> Because if we continue to do these 1632 01:49:00,520 --> 01:49:07,200 self-funded developments, of course, we have to have a a standard way of doing 1633 01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:09,160 things. Otherwise, we'll have all kinds of requests for all kinds of different 1634 01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:12,520 things. >> Yeah, and the And that's why I don't 1635 01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:16,880 want to make any changes to the developer's agreement. That's something 1636 01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:20,200 that we have used in the city. I don't want to change that. That has been used 1637 01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:25,320 with all the developments. It's a matter of what services are included within the 1638 01:49:23,120 --> 01:49:29,120 engineers services agreement. That is what's being discussed with the council 1639 01:49:26,680 --> 01:49:31,760 tonight. With what we've presented so far. 1640 01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:34,920 » And then that's what I would like to formalize is what services are we going 1641 01:49:33,440 --> 01:49:37,160 to require. Because otherwise it'll become a bargaining match. 1642 01:49:36,240 --> 01:49:41,920 » One, four, and five. >> Okay, but going forward beyond this. 1643 01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:45,800 » Like he's talking about the next self-funded development. Can we just 1644 01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:48,400 have the same set of standards? 1645 01:49:46,640 --> 01:49:53,320 » That's the intent. Is is that we want this to be a consistent message and we 1646 01:49:50,120 --> 01:49:55,960 want to just make sure that if the city desires this option, which I think 1647 01:49:54,680 --> 01:49:59,240 everyone agrees that it's a good option to provide developers to finance it on 1648 01:49:57,560 --> 01:50:02,440 your own. But then to just make sure that the city is involved with the 1649 01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:06,640 process so these developments aren't getting done in the dark of night and we 1650 01:50:05,080 --> 01:50:09,560 don't know what what infrastructure's going in and then it's okay city, we're 1651 01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:13,240 done. Here you go. Here's the infrastructure and we have no idea if it 1652 01:50:11,560 --> 01:50:16,760 complies with city standards. >> Okay. All right. I think I'm I'm good 1653 01:50:15,880 --> 01:50:21,160 with that. >> And the Mr. Mayor, the developers 1654 01:50:18,800 --> 01:50:24,746 representative is uh she's here. >> I don't have any questions. 1655 01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:26,840 » Good. How are you? >> [laughter] 1656 01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:30,880 » Welcome to the front table. >> Yeah, thank you. Um Blake Nybakken 1657 01:50:29,360 --> 01:50:36,120 representing Winnie Development tonight. Um just a couple comments um if I might 1658 01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:38,920 um Mr. Mayor and members of council. Um 1659 01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:43,960 yeah, I mean I I I think uh Lucas explained things very well. I guess my 1660 01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:49,160 So, we didn't feel that it needed to be amendment just based on you know, the 1661 01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:53,080 the items in 6A and 6B where it talks about um 1662 01:50:50,680 --> 01:50:56,080 developer must make the improvements under the guidance of a or supervision 1663 01:50:54,720 --> 01:51:01,400 of professional engineer licensed in North Dakota. Um I guess my only 1664 01:50:58,640 --> 01:51:04,400 question when it comes to um the agreement with Interstate and I 1665 01:51:02,560 --> 01:51:09,360 apologize I didn't have that um pulled up in front of me, but the 1666 01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:13,480 resident project representative um you know, with with the agreement that 1667 01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:17,760 the developer has with Lowry, um you know, there will be a full site a 1668 01:51:15,320 --> 01:51:21,160 full-time on-site supervisor there for that construction administration with 1669 01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:24,880 the engineering. And so, it seems like there might be some redundancy there. 1670 01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:28,880 Um and I don't know if there's any way to pair that portion of it down. You 1671 01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:32,680 know, they've got a not-to-exceed contract with Lowry Engineering, which 1672 01:51:31,080 --> 01:51:36,480 is one of the reasons why they were very comfortable and why they were wanting to 1673 01:51:34,480 --> 01:51:40,040 move forward with that aspect of it to to make sure that they had their arms 1674 01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:41,840 around the budget very well. Um and so, I guess 1675 01:51:40,880 --> 01:51:45,960 the and I don't know if maybe I 1676 01:51:42,760 --> 01:51:49,400 misunderstood Jim if if if all of that's um proposed estimate would still be 1677 01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:53,400 needed or if it would just be coordination items and and you know, 1678 01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:59,040 certain key milestones that needed to be observed and and and um 1679 01:51:56,280 --> 01:52:03,760 you know, directly supervised. >> To to Mr. Renner's point though, um I'm 1680 01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:07,320 not I'm not saying anything bad about your guys's engineering company. Um what 1681 01:52:05,640 --> 01:52:10,680 we've dealt with in the past in various different areas of town from different 1682 01:52:09,240 --> 01:52:14,760 engineering companies has left a bad taste in our mouth. Uh 1683 01:52:12,600 --> 01:52:19,080 having to afford several hundred thousand dollars in bills to fix what 1684 01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:23,400 has gone on. So, I don't think it's necessarily you guys, it's just trying 1685 01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:26,200 to standardize is is probably the best way to put it. 1686 01:52:24,120 --> 01:52:29,840 » Okay. And and that that is my concern cuz if 1687 01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:32,920 like you brought up, this is something that the city is going to carry forward 1688 01:52:31,160 --> 01:52:36,520 for all of these types of developments and it's it's going to be a potentially 1689 01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:39,800 a different engineering firm every time. Since we just need to make sure that 1690 01:52:37,800 --> 01:52:43,840 there is consistency from the city's stand point by the city's engineer. 1691 01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:47,360 That's what I'm looking for with with this. 1692 01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:51,400 » So, what would their engineering firm I just want to make sure I understand Jim 1693 01:52:49,040 --> 01:52:54,600 for non-construction people like me. >> So, the way that I had ours structured 1694 01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:58,120 was the construction engineering and contract drawing modifications. The 1695 01:52:56,280 --> 01:53:01,640 question here becomes with reference to the owner in the documents we have. 1696 01:53:00,080 --> 01:53:05,200 That's what Lucas was commenting on is that the city isn't necessarily owner 1697 01:53:03,240 --> 01:53:08,240 until it's all said and done. So, we would clean up those documents 1698 01:53:06,533 --> 01:53:12,440 [clears throat] that section of here, too, and then discuss with them kind of 1699 01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:13,720 what the roles and responsibilities would be. 1700 01:53:13,080 --> 01:53:15,640 » Okay. >> So, 1701 01:53:14,640 --> 01:53:17,560 » that's where >> Okay. 1702 01:53:16,080 --> 01:53:19,080 » we'll be at. >> Sounds good. 1703 01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:19,800 » Okay. >> Okay. 1704 01:53:19,440 --> 01:53:23,000 » Thank you. >> Any other questions for Blake? 1705 01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:26,480 » No, thank you, Blake. >> Okay. Thank you for your time. 1706 01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:26,480 » Thank you. 1707 01:53:26,600 --> 01:53:29,480 » All right, what do you guys want to do? 1708 01:53:31,160 --> 01:53:35,960 » I I do think it's a balancing act between 1709 01:53:34,040 --> 01:53:41,600 cutting corners and running up the bill. So, I you know, what if you guys feel 1710 01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:44,600 like this is a good compromise, you know, 1711 01:53:42,680 --> 01:53:47,720 where where we have aspects of both, where we can 1712 01:53:46,160 --> 01:53:50,600 where we can verify that it's being built to standard. 1713 01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:53,800 » Yeah, and we didn't do a percentage base because of that. We just did our relief. 1714 01:53:52,680 --> 01:53:57,080 So, the time you're there is the time you get paid for it. So, 1715 01:53:55,600 --> 01:54:00,080 » And I'm not accusing you of running up the bill, either. I you know, but I 1716 01:53:59,080 --> 01:54:01,360 mean, I know I know that's >> a concern. 1717 01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:02,880 » Yeah. >> Cost is always a concern. 1718 01:54:02,760 --> 01:54:06,560 » Yeah. >> So, 1719 01:54:04,440 --> 01:54:10,240 » And this this discussion is what I think Alliance with the developer's agreement 1720 01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:13,880 says. So, this was a good conversation for staff and consultants as well to 1721 01:54:12,280 --> 01:54:19,080 figure all this out and then present it to the council for discussion cuz again, 1722 01:54:16,160 --> 01:54:21,920 this is a newer way um for Horus to be doing this, but 1723 01:54:20,760 --> 01:54:24,920 so, yeah, we want to make sure we get it right, too. 1724 01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:28,840 » So, if we develop this process or thing, we 1725 01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:31,840 shouldn't have this question before us again? 1726 01:54:30,680 --> 01:54:35,000 » To be honest, I think you want to go through it once and then review it just 1727 01:54:33,400 --> 01:54:37,320 because this is the first one. >> Yeah. 1728 01:54:35,280 --> 01:54:41,000 » Just to evaluate how it went and then for maybe the next construction year, 1729 01:54:39,280 --> 01:54:43,560 really get it honed in. >> Yeah. 1730 01:54:41,200 --> 01:54:45,440 » So, I wouldn't want to say that one is our going to be the 1731 01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:48,200 » Yeah. >> I understand it, but like down the road, 1732 01:54:47,000 --> 01:54:51,840 this should be a pretty streamlined process. 1733 01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:55,360 » should very definitely require a lot of >> outside input other than what the policy 1734 01:54:53,520 --> 01:54:59,520 is and follow the policy and move on. >> Right. 1735 01:54:57,480 --> 01:55:03,720 » Okay. Any further questions? >> Done. 1736 01:55:01,480 --> 01:55:07,160 » All right, I'll look for a motion, then. >> So, what you'd be approving then if 1737 01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:13,440 you're going to do B would be tap phases 1, 4, and 5 as as presented. 1738 01:55:11,160 --> 01:55:18,320 of our agreement. And Lucas will work to modify that 1739 01:55:15,680 --> 01:55:20,560 prior to signatures. Sound right? >> Yeah. 1740 01:55:21,800 --> 01:55:24,440 Makes sense? 1741 01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:30,040 » For me, yeah. Do you want me to state it? Fine. Um I I just don't know what 1742 01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:33,800 what they want to approve, whether >> So, A or B. 1743 01:55:31,080 --> 01:55:33,800 » Got you. Oh. 1744 01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:44,400 » I mean, I'm I'm fine with the hybrid. So, that would be 1745 01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:44,400 » B. 1746 01:55:45,480 --> 01:55:50,640 » I guess I'm looking for the language of what we would need to have make a motion 1747 01:55:48,440 --> 01:55:54,160 on. >> The motion would be to approve 1748 01:55:53,360 --> 01:55:58,600 um 13B with modifications per the city 1749 01:55:56,760 --> 01:56:01,360 attorney for items 1, 4, and 5. 1750 01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:04,080 » Okay. So moved. 1751 01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:06,560 » Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a second? 1752 01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:08,240 » I'll second it. >> Have a motion and a second. All those in 1753 01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:10,880 favor say aye. >> Aye. 1754 01:56:09,240 --> 01:56:14,960 » All right, motion carries. Moving on to number 14, Cub Creek 3rd 1755 01:56:12,600 --> 01:56:19,240 Edition. Brenton, you have this one? Or is it Jim? 1756 01:56:17,200 --> 01:56:22,440 » I have I have this one with Jim, I guess, but uh 1757 01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:25,960 basically, this is a continuation that was tabled from the last city council 1758 01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:30,080 meeting regards to the consideration of developer's request for Cub Creek 3rd 1759 01:56:27,680 --> 01:56:33,800 Edition. Um from what I recall, the council was looking They They wanted to 1760 01:56:32,240 --> 01:56:38,400 have a little bit more time to consider this. And then also, I know that 1761 01:56:36,600 --> 01:56:42,800 there've been discussions like I know council member 1762 01:56:40,400 --> 01:56:46,600 Burgan tried to work with the developer on different uh 1763 01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:50,640 different option or so. I met with some of the other council 1764 01:56:48,560 --> 01:56:56,400 members just to see where other ideas are, 1765 01:56:53,040 --> 01:57:00,760 what our thoughts behind this, and uh bring this back up for discussion. 1766 01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:05,120 Like I said, it was just tabled. Uh, what would the city council like to 1767 01:57:02,400 --> 01:57:11,560 do in regards to the developer's request in regards to how the cash in lieu 1768 01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:15,160 payment is handled and if there's any credits or reductions to that cash in 1769 01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:19,000 lieu. Uh, from the staff perspective, we are 1770 01:57:17,240 --> 01:57:22,760 concerned if you're doing reductions to that cash in lieu in 1771 01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:25,560 regards to the overall policy and where does it go 1772 01:57:23,920 --> 01:57:29,440 from the next development and then the next one. Uh, but ultimately that's the 1773 01:57:27,920 --> 01:57:32,800 council's decision what you would like to do. 1774 01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:40,960 » All right, discussion. 1775 01:57:49,040 --> 01:57:55,760 » I mean, I am happy that they're 1776 01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:59,040 interested in doing a developer's funded neighborhood and to reduce special 1777 01:57:57,240 --> 01:58:03,080 assessments and um 1778 01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:08,440 I just wish it weren't 1779 01:58:05,960 --> 01:58:13,280 being asked to come from the parks um 1780 01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:13,280 for the cash in lieu because 1781 01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:21,440 I mean, funding parks and playgrounds and splash pads and all these community 1782 01:58:17,680 --> 01:58:21,440 amenities is so important. So 1783 01:58:24,400 --> 01:58:31,000 I have a a hold up about that. Um 1784 01:58:32,280 --> 01:58:40,320 but I also value that they are 1785 01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:44,720 over building their locals to meet regional 1786 01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:50,640 uh benchmarks. And so, I mean, I see that 1787 01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:50,640 also. 1788 01:58:50,920 --> 01:58:57,760 I think this is super complicated, but what do you guys think? 1789 01:59:02,520 --> 01:59:06,840 » I also appreciate the fact that you're you're kind of doing it on your own, 1790 01:59:05,560 --> 01:59:09,200 which is a good thing and that's the direction I'd like the city to go over 1791 01:59:08,120 --> 01:59:14,920 to be quite honest with you in the future. Uh but I also have some issues 1792 01:59:12,200 --> 01:59:18,880 with the cash in lieu and I'll probably depart a little bit from what Rachel 1793 01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:22,680 said in reference to the the parks. We have a very large 1794 01:59:20,840 --> 01:59:25,840 special assessment debt that the city is currently going to be 1795 01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:29,760 carrying soon um 1796 01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:32,800 that we will have to service in the future 1797 01:59:30,920 --> 01:59:37,120 uh even though the parks are important, we also have 1798 01:59:35,000 --> 01:59:41,680 that debt that we have to address at some point 1799 01:59:38,360 --> 01:59:47,120 in the future. So, if it were to be that uh we were going to give 1800 01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:52,480 the the money back to developer in the aspect of future improvements I I 1801 01:59:50,960 --> 01:59:56,520 I don't know that I would choose to take that money and put it that place right 1802 01:59:53,880 --> 01:59:56,520 at this time. 1803 02:00:00,960 --> 02:00:04,360 » Chad. >> Um 1804 02:00:03,773 --> 02:00:07,400 » [sighs] >> I I I I am 1805 02:00:07,600 --> 02:00:15,360 I I you know, I've heard both sides of the story on this one. Um 1806 02:00:11,800 --> 02:00:15,360 and it is uh 1807 02:00:17,280 --> 02:00:22,920 as far as some of these paths, you know, I I saw some of the paths where they're 1808 02:00:21,080 --> 02:00:27,840 you know, well, that's a bike path. I I I I don't know if that's a bike path 1809 02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:32,160 or it's a it's a sidewalk or glorified sidewalk. I I mean, I just I don't know 1810 02:00:29,640 --> 02:00:35,800 what defines a bike path versus a a glorified sidewalk. So, 1811 02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:40,520 the other thing is, you know, taking into account things that happened 1812 02:00:37,240 --> 02:00:43,800 previously and applying them to today sometimes you have to look at okay, so 1813 02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:47,320 if that's what we're doing, then we have to open up the you know, you know, 1814 02:00:45,680 --> 02:00:52,680 box of everything that happened previously and sort through everything 1815 02:00:49,680 --> 02:00:56,560 individually one by one. Like I I I you know, I was under under saying there's 1816 02:00:53,880 --> 02:01:00,880 some previous land dedication that went to a stormwater pond or something like 1817 02:00:58,600 --> 02:01:04,040 that. It turned into a stormwater pond? Does anybody know about that? 1818 02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:12,960 What's that? >> So, basically, are we able to 1819 02:01:09,360 --> 02:01:12,960 » Yeah. Go ahead and come on up. 1820 02:01:13,560 --> 02:01:16,640 » I didn't fill out a card. >> What's that? 1821 02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:19,680 » I didn't fill out a card. >> That's fine. 1822 02:01:17,320 --> 02:01:19,680 » Okay. 1823 02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:27,440 So, uh good evening, Mr. Mayor and council members. Uh to 1824 02:01:25,080 --> 02:01:32,680 So, Cub Creek, our general timeline is 1825 02:01:29,560 --> 02:01:35,920 probably 6, 7 years from really when the initial concept started getting laid 1826 02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:39,480 out, started construction, and go through the multiple phases. 1827 02:01:37,680 --> 02:01:43,760 Um when Cub Creek first was platted, 1828 02:01:42,320 --> 02:01:49,800 it was already part of the master plan and the and the pond 1829 02:01:45,800 --> 02:01:55,600 land was uh conveyed to the city for a purchase price at that time. 1830 02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:57,560 Um based on what the preliminary engineering 1831 02:01:56,920 --> 02:02:02,920 uh estimated to be for size. As it went on 1832 02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:06,160 and as more of the development got built out, 1833 02:02:04,080 --> 02:02:09,240 Lakeview, other things got built out, the determination was made that it needs 1834 02:02:07,760 --> 02:02:11,680 to be increased. >> Okay. 1835 02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:16,600 » So, that's why it went from it went from initial 10 acres, it's now 1836 02:02:15,200 --> 02:02:20,200 12 acres and some additional green space around 1837 02:02:18,200 --> 02:02:22,800 there as well. Because much like you've talked about of 1838 02:02:21,760 --> 02:02:28,080 what you've learned in other developments around ponds and such, uh 1839 02:02:25,480 --> 02:02:31,680 Cub Creek first, the where it 1840 02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:35,640 um it almost seems like you would own almost up to the edge, but there was 1841 02:02:34,280 --> 02:02:39,720 when the property line and private property line stopped and then the city 1842 02:02:38,160 --> 02:02:43,960 took over, there was it was very ambiguous because other than 1843 02:02:41,760 --> 02:02:48,200 a little, you know, piece of rebar or a T-post to say it was yours. So, we tried 1844 02:02:46,440 --> 02:02:53,120 to uh in future phases 1845 02:02:49,920 --> 02:02:58,880 make it more defined with a path or sidewalk, anything else like that to try 1846 02:02:55,040 --> 02:03:02,240 to really set set that stage apart. The only reason why we 1847 02:03:01,200 --> 02:03:06,480 and I will say I'm I'm open to suggestions 1848 02:03:04,480 --> 02:03:11,120 as to how we want to get creative with not having to do an 1849 02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:15,280 improvement district. I've said before, I'll say it again, I'm 1850 02:03:12,640 --> 02:03:18,240 very comfortable and and and willing to pay for everything that's in front of 1851 02:03:16,840 --> 02:03:20,440 the lots of what what we're going to sell. 1852 02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:23,440 The curb, the gutter, the street, the street lights, sidewalks, any of that 1853 02:03:22,280 --> 02:03:27,560 stuff. What I don't think is fair that we are 1854 02:03:25,840 --> 02:03:32,440 asking the people your citizens that will be in Cub Creek 1855 02:03:29,640 --> 02:03:37,560 III to be paying for that arterial road, upsizing a storm, 1856 02:03:35,680 --> 02:03:41,200 up- upsizing of some other stuff that will be benefiting 1857 02:03:39,360 --> 02:03:46,280 basically the whole 1 square mile with the exception of 1858 02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:50,120 way over here on the on the west side, but three three quarters of that square 1859 02:03:48,280 --> 02:03:52,440 mile is is going to be um 1860 02:03:52,680 --> 02:03:57,480 benefited from the pond, 83rd, 1861 02:03:56,400 --> 02:03:59,640 um the rest of that stuff to go through 1862 02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:06,080 there. If if that wasn't required, 83rd would 1863 02:04:02,480 --> 02:04:09,480 be much smaller. No no diagonal parking, this 1864 02:04:06,880 --> 02:04:12,040 you know, not concrete, asphalt. So, there's a there's a number of things 1865 02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:16,800 that when the initial master plan was laid 1866 02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:21,800 out that as we're building it out now, had we gone on the way it would be, we'd 1867 02:04:18,680 --> 02:04:25,360 be asking for an improvement district, set up a special assessment, go through 1868 02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:30,120 the protests, award it. Now we do it where this 1869 02:04:27,680 --> 02:04:33,320 specials are certified prior to the shovel going in the ground and and 1870 02:04:31,560 --> 02:04:37,200 getting that done. So, we know more up front, but we're just simply trying to 1871 02:04:35,440 --> 02:04:40,320 say we'll pay for all of it. 1872 02:04:40,400 --> 02:04:47,600 But how do we how do I get reimbursed for the public road that once it's 1873 02:04:45,200 --> 02:04:52,280 completed, obviously the the internal local roads, you know, go without saying 1874 02:04:50,280 --> 02:04:56,240 that that's dedicated right away. It's just the extra cost 1875 02:04:55,120 --> 02:05:02,600 of of the 83rd, the concrete, and some of 1876 02:04:58,880 --> 02:05:07,040 those other things as I mentioned. So, all of that land in Cub Creek third 1877 02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:12,200 currently has paid their proportionate share of 63rd s- 1878 02:05:10,200 --> 02:05:16,240 um 83rd um part of 76 if they're uh on the north 1879 02:05:15,200 --> 02:05:18,640 side anything of wall 1880 02:05:17,680 --> 02:05:21,400 » Lakeview drainage >> Lakeview drainage 1881 02:05:20,360 --> 02:05:24,640 um that lift station 1882 02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:29,200 so we're just simply saying we either need 1883 02:05:26,800 --> 02:05:33,200 to continue on with the path of which we've started 1884 02:05:31,320 --> 02:05:36,960 because, you know, we've already we've already moved money over here to this 1885 02:05:34,680 --> 02:05:40,480 land from this other stuff. And now if we can't 1886 02:05:38,360 --> 02:05:44,400 share have the rest of the of the section share in in this last section of 1887 02:05:42,920 --> 02:05:48,680 road then then how is that fair for those 1888 02:05:46,200 --> 02:05:50,800 citizens? Because the cost has to get there. 1889 02:05:49,600 --> 02:05:55,600 And we're not by no means have we ever advocated or or 1890 02:05:53,720 --> 02:06:00,320 called out to say it's, you know, that has to come from park. 1891 02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:06,120 The way we do the cash in lieu is to public infrastructure. It's up to now uh 1892 02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:09,560 at the current policies to of the commission to divvy up the money to see 1893 02:06:07,880 --> 02:06:12,400 where it's going to be earmarked or anything else for it versus before when 1894 02:06:11,240 --> 02:06:15,880 it was I think the language was specif- 1895 02:06:14,120 --> 02:06:20,240 specifically to park district. Well, now 1896 02:06:17,800 --> 02:06:24,600 that is since been removed. So, I'm not so sure that the million dollars for 1897 02:06:22,440 --> 02:06:30,120 general number round numbers that if we were to pay that into it, if we could 1898 02:06:28,400 --> 02:06:36,240 know that that would be going towards the 83rds um regional any of the paths 1899 02:06:34,880 --> 02:06:41,280 or anything else, it just it's up to your guys's 1900 02:06:39,680 --> 02:06:45,480 discretion to how you're going to divvy up the the bucket of of money. If some 1901 02:06:43,320 --> 02:06:47,840 still going to go to park. 1902 02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:54,360 I mean, the situation could exist where the cash 1903 02:06:51,280 --> 02:06:59,760 in lieu is a million, but the allocation back for reimbursement to the developer 1904 02:06:56,680 --> 02:07:05,440 for the road may only be 750,000. So, there is still money that could go to 1905 02:07:02,360 --> 02:07:10,600 other projects, park, whatever, you know, whatever the city 1906 02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:16,400 would deem necessary. Um, but we just need to kind of have some direction 1907 02:07:13,800 --> 02:07:20,880 because if this this really isn't going to be feasible, then the next meeting we 1908 02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:24,280 would just end up the plan would be is like we can't come 1909 02:07:22,520 --> 02:07:30,040 up with a creative idea amongst all of us, then we revert back to 1910 02:07:28,320 --> 02:07:34,960 what we've only thing we've been able to do before, come here, 1911 02:07:32,160 --> 02:07:38,520 ask for a special assessment improvement district. 1912 02:07:36,280 --> 02:07:41,960 This much will be the local and this much will be the regional and this is 1913 02:07:40,600 --> 02:07:47,560 what's going to get spread out to come first, Cubs, Cubs, second, Lakeview, uh, 1914 02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:50,040 and the rest of those that stuff through there at 1915 02:07:48,640 --> 02:07:52,920 just like the improvement district boundary that we had 1916 02:07:51,920 --> 02:08:00,120 you previously utilized for what what that 1917 02:07:57,320 --> 02:08:04,000 benefit area ultimately is. >> So, with the numbers you're proposing, 1918 02:08:01,960 --> 02:08:08,240 this isn't this this isn't an all or nothing offer. It's not an a la carte. 1919 02:08:06,240 --> 02:08:12,960 It's not a well, we you know, I agree with you on the oversized and the uh, 1920 02:08:10,680 --> 02:08:16,880 construction of the 83rd to regional standards, but I'm having 1921 02:08:14,760 --> 02:08:20,640 trouble with the paths or I mean, it's either all or nothing. Either the 1922 02:08:18,600 --> 02:08:23,520 numbers work with this or they don't work, one of the two. 1923 02:08:21,480 --> 02:08:27,560 » No, uh, no time did I ever want to convey that. 1924 02:08:25,200 --> 02:08:32,280 It's just it seems like we either meaning the private funding concept is 1925 02:08:30,320 --> 02:08:37,080 either going to work and be malleable as to what that wants to look like or we're 1926 02:08:35,000 --> 02:08:40,480 simply that going with the 1927 02:08:38,920 --> 02:08:44,440 with the improvement district. Now there could be a third in my opinion a third 1928 02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:48,480 hybrid option where it isn't all specially assessed, 1929 02:08:46,480 --> 02:08:52,160 it isn't all privately funded, but what we could end up doing is just the 1930 02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:55,960 improvement district for for a portion of what is going to be regional. 1931 02:08:54,760 --> 02:08:59,240 Agree. In terms of small, but it wouldn't be 1932 02:08:58,040 --> 02:09:02,480 the full if the full build out is $12 million the 1933 02:09:01,040 --> 02:09:06,640 improvement district for the regional component would be 1934 02:09:03,960 --> 02:09:11,160 a million dollars or 1.5, you know. >> And I I like that I 1935 02:09:08,640 --> 02:09:14,200 I think the idea is to get specials off of the the table as far as selling the 1936 02:09:13,080 --> 02:09:15,640 houses. >> Well 1937 02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:20,680 » selling the development. >> from what I've heard that part of the 1938 02:09:17,920 --> 02:09:26,840 the rub with the city is to a you just mentioned is the the the 1939 02:09:24,320 --> 02:09:31,760 bloated balance of special assessments that is is is there and so if that can 1940 02:09:29,560 --> 02:09:36,440 ultimately removed right away, there's no expense for the bonding 1941 02:09:34,680 --> 02:09:40,640 you know some of those other fees that go along with getting it to that point. 1942 02:09:39,240 --> 02:09:45,120 Um the developer then is in in their 1943 02:09:42,400 --> 02:09:49,160 discretion as to how to allocate you know the lots and in terms of pricing 1944 02:09:46,880 --> 02:09:53,480 because it's it's not um it's not up to the city. 1945 02:09:51,840 --> 02:09:59,160 But I think it's going to be important because we we have so much intertwined 1946 02:09:56,160 --> 02:10:03,240 and commingled of of stuff here to somehow not saying we're going to 1947 02:10:01,000 --> 02:10:08,360 bifurcate everything that's going to go happen this point on it has to be 1948 02:10:05,520 --> 02:10:13,120 privately funded and there's no no reimbursement for it or it's still going 1949 02:10:10,320 --> 02:10:18,400 to be some sort of a hybrid or you know I don't I'm not advocating that we would 1950 02:10:15,680 --> 02:10:24,400 come back in and by any way ask for an improvement district for the whole 1951 02:10:19,680 --> 02:10:28,520 thing. I think that model is currently damaged, broken, 1952 02:10:26,200 --> 02:10:33,040 uh stressed, whatever you want to say. Uh I don't want to sit in hear any more 1953 02:10:31,400 --> 02:10:35,960 of those meetings of a special assessment discussion or anything else 1954 02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:40,480 for it. So, we're just here trying to say, "Hey, 1955 02:10:37,440 --> 02:10:45,200 let us try to do this." Um I I believe it it'd be very much 1956 02:10:43,080 --> 02:10:48,360 within your purview to say, "Okay, this cash in lieu, 1957 02:10:46,680 --> 02:10:52,400 we can debate about the dollar amounts still because if there's been some 1958 02:10:51,320 --> 02:10:56,480 uh short calculations or anything else of 1959 02:10:54,640 --> 02:11:00,120 it's, you know, the easy math is 1.1, but we're saying 1960 02:10:58,520 --> 02:11:03,440 it's really probably closer to 800 or whatever. And I think that's your point. 1961 02:11:01,480 --> 02:11:09,200 That's where I think we need to kind of work work work over the the the final 1962 02:11:06,600 --> 02:11:14,800 tally of it. The difference will be is the willingness that of the city to 1963 02:11:12,280 --> 02:11:20,640 either special assess for that regional or fund it through other means 1964 02:11:18,240 --> 02:11:23,960 of the city would have. >> And then obviously for the park 1965 02:11:21,840 --> 02:11:28,440 district, um if this starts uh setting a trend for the park district that they're 1966 02:11:26,120 --> 02:11:33,040 going to be, you know, losing either cash in lieu or land dedication, 1967 02:11:31,280 --> 02:11:36,600 yeah, what what what's their future? You know, what's their future like with with 1968 02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:41,480 all the different subdivisions? How How can we How can we balance what we're 1969 02:11:39,000 --> 02:11:46,320 doing or we're trying to you know, reduce and eliminate specials, 1970 02:11:43,680 --> 02:11:49,480 but also let the park district, you know, still do their thing. 1971 02:11:47,920 --> 02:11:54,280 » Yeah, and I think that's going to be an ongoing policy and really kind of a 1972 02:11:51,640 --> 02:11:58,400 case-by-case basis because some areas they want the land. I think we've been 1973 02:11:55,720 --> 02:12:01,640 very good stewards of of of of giving land and and and beautification to the 1974 02:12:00,280 --> 02:12:05,400 city and making all the neighborhoods a real 1975 02:12:03,320 --> 02:12:08,200 asset. I appreciate your your recognizing that that that is a you 1976 02:12:07,760 --> 02:12:12,440 know, >> and I I don't give that out lightly. I I 1977 02:12:10,200 --> 02:12:14,880 mean, you'll hear me Yeah, criticize things too, and it but it's not 1978 02:12:13,960 --> 02:12:19,400 definitely not your >> And and so 1979 02:12:16,200 --> 02:12:24,040 to that Councilman um and Cham um Chalmers, 1980 02:12:21,440 --> 02:12:28,680 What you saw out there today is all born from the HOA in the development itself, 1981 02:12:26,680 --> 02:12:32,640 not special assessments in the sense that it's going to other places or 1982 02:12:30,840 --> 02:12:35,720 they're taking away from the park. That was in addition to. 1983 02:12:34,520 --> 02:12:39,680 So, I would certainly see and and want to 1984 02:12:37,440 --> 02:12:42,880 advocate still some sort of funding for the parks to go forward because 1985 02:12:41,720 --> 02:12:46,960 we would have relished the cherished the fact that we 1986 02:12:44,880 --> 02:12:53,600 could have had a park there during Cub 1 and Cub 2. Cub 3 will likely be built 1987 02:12:49,760 --> 02:12:58,000 out in well into Cub 4 based on Wade's preliminary estimate 1988 02:12:55,840 --> 02:13:02,400 last meeting when any of that park beautification would would 1989 02:12:59,440 --> 02:13:05,560 infrastructure would go in. People want to see what it's going to 1990 02:13:03,840 --> 02:13:09,400 be. They can, you know, be skeptical or they can be 1991 02:13:07,280 --> 02:13:13,120 trustworthy or anything else, but it's like, "Okay, what what are we getting 1992 02:13:11,120 --> 02:13:18,080 here? When are we getting it? You know, what what's it going to cost?" So, 1993 02:13:16,520 --> 02:13:22,320 whether it's, you know, still some sort of funding through there or we recognize 1994 02:13:20,800 --> 02:13:26,000 the CIB, you know, again, 1995 02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:30,600 we are we are picking and choosing some of the stuff out of the whole policy. 1996 02:13:27,920 --> 02:13:36,560 Well, if we're going to really redo or rethink the whole reimagine the whole 1997 02:13:33,320 --> 02:13:40,960 entire funding of it, I think we need to imagine reimagine the whole entire 1998 02:13:38,760 --> 02:13:44,840 mechanism for it, not just say, "We're going to do it privately, but 1999 02:13:43,000 --> 02:13:48,800 what yet we still have to pay over here for 2000 02:13:46,080 --> 02:13:51,760 for the infrastructure or for the cash in lieu. 2001 02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:55,800 That's all I'm saying is it's almost it's kind of a double dip because we're 2002 02:13:53,720 --> 02:14:00,200 if we end up paying for everything, this is say the city decides not to pay 2003 02:13:57,680 --> 02:14:03,360 for anything on 83rd. No upsizing of storm sewer or anything 2004 02:14:02,480 --> 02:14:06,360 else. The developer goes in and does all of 2005 02:14:05,200 --> 02:14:10,480 that. So, there's no regional 2006 02:14:09,040 --> 02:14:15,720 special assessment. No one else is paying for it. The city isn't paying 2007 02:14:12,840 --> 02:14:20,680 contributing anything. And we are asked to pay the nominal million 2008 02:14:17,880 --> 02:14:25,400 dollars for the cash in lieu. So, the people that are right here 2009 02:14:23,200 --> 02:14:29,440 on the Cub 3 side 2010 02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:32,720 are essentially paying for everything again. Paying for all that 2011 02:14:30,960 --> 02:14:36,120 other infrastructure that was across the the cooley. 2012 02:14:34,440 --> 02:14:39,280 Paying for their own stuff and in addition paying for part of a you know 2013 02:14:38,320 --> 02:14:43,080 one 1/4 of the splash pad. 2014 02:14:41,840 --> 02:14:47,360 I mean I think the estimate was around 4 million dollars which I I I 2015 02:14:46,240 --> 02:14:51,760 blanked out a little bit when I hit my head on the floor, but sorry but uh 2016 02:14:49,600 --> 02:14:57,120 uh So, anyway the the fact that I mean that 2017 02:14:54,440 --> 02:15:00,320 by my own estimation seems like this is a 2018 02:14:58,200 --> 02:15:06,840 a feature that's going to be centralized to the whole entire city, but yet we're 2019 02:15:02,040 --> 02:15:11,360 asking for 80 acre 60 acre net swath of land to pay for 25 2020 02:15:08,880 --> 02:15:15,800 Yeah. Pay for 25% of it. >> lots to pay for 25% of a 4 million 2021 02:15:13,840 --> 02:15:19,400 dollar asset. >> There's only 190 lots in Cub Creek 3rd. 2022 02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:23,800 That's all it It's all it ended up is very long. It it 2023 02:15:22,160 --> 02:15:27,240 goes a long way, but it's very skinny because we're 2024 02:15:25,440 --> 02:15:30,640 uh veterans and the cooley ended up being it's very 2025 02:15:28,920 --> 02:15:34,720 much a pinch point. So, that's where we were saying like 2026 02:15:32,440 --> 02:15:38,760 this it just doesn't it doesn't seem right. You're a 2027 02:15:36,080 --> 02:15:46,200 community of how many thousand residents now or lots or parcels and 25% is born 2028 02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:49,840 on 100 109 110, you know. 2029 02:15:48,720 --> 02:15:53,960 So, we just want to bring this forward. We 2030 02:15:51,480 --> 02:15:58,400 want to be part of the solution. We want to try to be 2031 02:15:56,920 --> 02:16:01,040 good partners to to Horace. 2032 02:16:00,320 --> 02:16:04,200 Um >> But you want a fair and equitable deal. 2033 02:16:02,480 --> 02:16:08,040 » Fair and equitable. We want to be at the table to figure out what is that outside 2034 02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:11,040 the box solution for a real problem that the city's facing and that's the 2035 02:16:09,640 --> 02:16:14,080 regional districts. I don't think the city's really bad at the eyes at the 2036 02:16:12,480 --> 02:16:18,120 local improvement districts because that's born on it. 2037 02:16:15,800 --> 02:16:22,120 But as a growing city should want to expand and create efficiencies in the 2038 02:16:20,240 --> 02:16:25,920 regional infrastructure that is the pinch point that's happening 2039 02:16:23,960 --> 02:16:30,880 over and over and over again. So, what is that outside of the box solution? 2040 02:16:28,800 --> 02:16:37,080 Counter two are outside the box solution that that works and has benefit. 2041 02:16:33,880 --> 02:16:41,599 And can carry that community benefit tag that this cash in lieu of land 2042 02:16:38,639 --> 02:16:44,840 dedication is for. >> I think it's important to note, I just 2043 02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:49,760 want to make kind of pull the record so to speak that while I'm here advocating 2044 02:16:47,519 --> 02:16:55,320 as the developer, I'm here advocating for 109 of your future citizens. 2045 02:16:52,519 --> 02:16:58,559 I'm very much um you know, pro housing and and with my involvement at the 2046 02:16:57,160 --> 02:17:01,920 National Association of Home Builders, it's every day that we're trying to look 2047 02:17:00,559 --> 02:17:07,760 at regulation, whether it's the stormwater to OSHA to any of this other 2048 02:17:04,480 --> 02:17:11,840 stuff. And to simply just 2049 02:17:08,639 --> 02:17:18,080 drop this much burden on these lots, it just simply it it 2050 02:17:15,120 --> 02:17:23,880 it it's it's so out of balance that the infrastructure compared to what the lot 2051 02:17:20,080 --> 02:17:30,160 value is is is lopsided because of it's it's bearing so much of the of the load. 2052 02:17:27,960 --> 02:17:33,200 » I have a question for the people up here with me. 2053 02:17:31,400 --> 02:17:40,400 I think we've been fairly inconsistent with with trails and credit whether we 2054 02:17:35,920 --> 02:17:43,480 do give trails trail systems a cash in lieu credit or not. 2055 02:17:42,719 --> 02:17:46,440 Um we probably want to look at that and 2056 02:17:44,679 --> 02:17:50,080 make a decision on that. Right? We have sometimes 2057 02:17:48,719 --> 02:17:54,480 um accepted that and then 2058 02:17:53,080 --> 02:17:57,480 but not always. It's just kind of been this inconsistency. 2059 02:17:58,360 --> 02:18:04,480 » And it's probably a little bit more or less of a an issue again if it was the 2060 02:18:02,920 --> 02:18:07,280 old way where everything kind of got thrown into the bucket of specials. 2061 02:18:06,880 --> 02:18:12,320 » Yeah. >> And then just spread out that way. Well, 2062 02:18:09,080 --> 02:18:16,440 now we're down to the tiny bucket, a spoonful really, compared to the whole 2063 02:18:14,880 --> 02:18:20,800 millions and millions of dollars of infrastructure that it's gone into that 2064 02:18:18,320 --> 02:18:23,280 square mile. Uh we're down we're down to the last 10 12 million dollars here. 2065 02:18:22,800 --> 02:18:27,360 » Yeah. >> But it's it would still be too much 2066 02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:32,240 because if it was only the raw dirt that was there, it would it would be it would 2067 02:18:29,320 --> 02:18:36,120 be palatable, but it's the existing. So, some of those lots will have 2068 02:18:34,320 --> 02:18:43,480 before we do anything as it would be platted right now with the 109 10 lots 2069 02:18:39,280 --> 02:18:48,519 um anywhere from 20 to 30,000 dollars of infrastructure debt special assessments 2070 02:18:46,639 --> 02:18:51,040 per lot before we put a shovel in the ground. 2071 02:18:52,200 --> 02:19:02,360 And that is all from no benefit to that end citizen at this point. 2072 02:18:59,760 --> 02:19:07,400 It's all for their their their share, their willingness of these 109 lots to 2073 02:19:05,320 --> 02:19:11,160 to help pay for all the rest of this stuff over here on the other side of it. 2074 02:19:09,519 --> 02:19:15,719 And there's this nothing reciprocating for the rest of the 2/3 of the 2075 02:19:13,080 --> 02:19:22,920 development to help pay for the last 1/3. Actually, price let's just say 7/8 2076 02:19:19,120 --> 02:19:27,960 to to 1/8 that's left. >> Just for my own education, is let's say 2077 02:19:25,599 --> 02:19:32,280 that we did away with regional specials and required those to be within the 2078 02:19:29,599 --> 02:19:36,960 district. What impact would that have on you as a developer in the future? 2079 02:19:34,360 --> 02:19:40,679 » Yeah, well, and that's a a very big topic to discuss because, you know, 2080 02:19:39,519 --> 02:19:44,639 if if I were to be the land owner on each 2081 02:19:42,880 --> 02:19:48,800 side of the road, it's pretty straightforward. It can you know, I get 2082 02:19:47,440 --> 02:19:53,200 the benefit on the east side and the west side and when this road goes in and 2083 02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:55,960 we pay for it. The difference will be is when 2084 02:19:54,280 --> 02:19:58,280 one developer owns on the east side of the road and you're a different 2085 02:19:56,800 --> 02:20:06,280 developer. So, who puts the road in first? Is there any sort of clawback or 2086 02:20:02,120 --> 02:20:10,800 credit with the next developer B end up having to pay for a 50% of the of 2087 02:20:08,960 --> 02:20:15,760 their road when, you know, their time comes or even up front? And I think, you 2088 02:20:13,720 --> 02:20:19,640 know, short of being able to have some again, this is going to be so important 2089 02:20:17,520 --> 02:20:25,120 to have this collaboration because as you guys are setting policy and and and 2090 02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:29,400 setting this stuff up, um because to say, "Yeah, you know, um 2091 02:20:27,720 --> 02:20:32,200 you know, whatever developer B over here, I'm 2092 02:20:30,760 --> 02:20:36,160 like, "Yeah, if I send them an invoice for $2 million, I can about imagine what 2093 02:20:34,360 --> 02:20:40,560 they're going to do with that." Uh, you know, but they thanks for the road. So, 2094 02:20:38,720 --> 02:20:44,120 and likewise, you know, there's going to be someone that's going to be putting 2095 02:20:41,680 --> 02:20:49,080 something in sooner. I can think of 64th Avenue. You know, obviously we have a 2096 02:20:46,520 --> 02:20:53,800 big chunk of land on 64th Avenue. Um all towards the diversion. 2097 02:20:51,600 --> 02:20:58,480 And when 64th goes in, obviously there's land a lot of land to the south and 2098 02:20:56,120 --> 02:21:02,120 there's land to our west. And how is that going to be put in? So, if it's the 2099 02:21:00,280 --> 02:21:07,840 first person that comes in and they they are maybe the the smallest land 2100 02:21:05,560 --> 02:21:11,560 portion owner, does that person bear all the cost to 2101 02:21:09,840 --> 02:21:14,320 put in 64th Avenue, the bigger infrastructure, the regional lift 2102 02:21:13,080 --> 02:21:17,040 station? Um 2103 02:21:15,640 --> 02:21:20,080 and I think what dance your question, too, why I think we need to have some 2104 02:21:18,720 --> 02:21:23,040 sort of this still this regional component, 2105 02:21:21,400 --> 02:21:28,720 it doesn't make sense for the city of Horace to have 10, 12, 15 different 2106 02:21:26,440 --> 02:21:32,680 individual lift stations when if it's master planned, uh just like 2107 02:21:31,040 --> 02:21:36,920 when we did Prairie View, we upsized that one. We only were putting another 2108 02:21:34,400 --> 02:21:41,360 50 or 75 lots in, but we up almost essentially doubled it for intense all 2109 02:21:39,680 --> 02:21:43,640 intense purposes because we knew to the east was going to be [clears throat] the 2110 02:21:42,080 --> 02:21:47,200 next one going in. So, rather than digging and having a lift station right 2111 02:21:45,520 --> 02:21:51,200 here and put in another one, you know, two blocks away, okay, what can we do to 2112 02:21:49,320 --> 02:21:57,040 make this one bigger? And I think that's going to be long-term maintenance 2113 02:21:54,000 --> 02:22:02,640 uh cost or what's more cost-effective. So there there just definitely needs to 2114 02:21:59,680 --> 02:22:07,000 be somebody that's going to be pulling everyone together to collaborate 2115 02:22:04,320 --> 02:22:09,880 and do a a regional benefit for the city and the landowners. 2116 02:22:08,480 --> 02:22:13,960 » And I did I think J's brought up the same thing with the Horse Energy Park 2117 02:22:11,760 --> 02:22:17,160 back when that was going in about when he worked for the city about 2118 02:22:15,200 --> 02:22:20,720 putting in a you know the lift station that would be 2119 02:22:18,440 --> 02:22:23,840 benefiting the entire area. And not just just the energy park it 2120 02:22:22,600 --> 02:22:27,960 would be I think you where you where you had it 2121 02:22:25,520 --> 02:22:31,920 estimated. So so I understand that you know we we don't want to build 20 lift 2122 02:22:29,880 --> 02:22:35,040 stations. We want to have you know >> It's it's about building the efficiency 2123 02:22:33,560 --> 02:22:37,960 and redundancy in your system and how you want to connect. So I mean the 2124 02:22:36,240 --> 02:22:41,760 question can be asked back is what does the city want to see with their regional 2125 02:22:39,720 --> 02:22:45,560 infrastructure on that. I mean if they're fine with just 2126 02:22:43,720 --> 02:22:49,480 you know not connected just individual systems over and over again it's going 2127 02:22:47,120 --> 02:22:53,520 to have long-term maintenance cost. You know I I worked in Idaho for for 5 2128 02:22:52,120 --> 02:22:57,680 years prior. There was no special assessments out there. 2129 02:22:55,320 --> 02:23:01,120 But their policies for the streets were half street policies. The people if you 2130 02:22:59,360 --> 02:23:05,000 didn't own both sides you developed half the street plus 12 to build a two-lane 2131 02:23:03,400 --> 02:23:08,240 travel section until the next person took it over. Like you know what is the 2132 02:23:06,560 --> 02:23:12,080 appetite to do that? Lift stations the first one in the 2133 02:23:09,800 --> 02:23:15,880 section put it in. But they everything they oversized they were reimbursed for 2134 02:23:14,000 --> 02:23:18,960 through way camera fees. So as those tap fees came in that developer who put in 2135 02:23:17,640 --> 02:23:23,840 that initial infrastructure gets reimbursed for that oversized. So what 2136 02:23:21,240 --> 02:23:27,480 is the the larger discussion willing to be had by the city of how 2137 02:23:25,400 --> 02:23:32,360 that infrastructure looks down the road cuz I don't think the city I mean just 2138 02:23:29,640 --> 02:23:36,960 from a a love of cities I don't think you sell yourself short on just creating 2139 02:23:34,320 --> 02:23:40,000 these these micro systems that don't connect and don't interact with each 2140 02:23:38,320 --> 02:23:43,760 other because your long-term maintenance burden is going to far exceed what that 2141 02:23:42,200 --> 02:23:47,960 upfront cost is. And I mean and that's kind of been the 2142 02:23:45,040 --> 02:23:52,080 difficult through special assessments is trying to get people to realize what the 2143 02:23:49,520 --> 02:23:55,680 benefit of these larger systems is, but in the same breath you can't expect one 2144 02:23:54,000 --> 02:23:59,960 person to put in a master lift for the entire section 2145 02:23:57,560 --> 02:24:03,120 and not see any kickback whatsoever through that. I mean, that's just 2146 02:24:01,400 --> 02:24:08,600 eliminating your cost efficiency in the >> Recoup some of that cost, but just like 2147 02:24:05,320 --> 02:24:12,320 so take 57th we were talking about some of that up-sized pipe that goes 2148 02:24:10,000 --> 02:24:17,400 from 57th on the shorter distance over to the pond to get it into the regional 2149 02:24:14,120 --> 02:24:21,920 system versus a mile of pipe to go all the way up to 76th or 64th. 2150 02:24:20,200 --> 02:24:28,840 Well, someone's going to have to pay that later. City citizens, state, 2151 02:24:25,480 --> 02:24:32,280 whoever. So, does it make sense now? And that's why the engineers smarter than me 2152 02:24:30,760 --> 02:24:36,120 came up with this like, well, we should run it from, you know, we can put much 2153 02:24:34,200 --> 02:24:40,000 smaller pipe in the in the right-of-way along Veterans 2154 02:24:37,720 --> 02:24:44,200 and then, you know, dump it into the the bigger system that's there that's 2155 02:24:42,160 --> 02:24:49,600 already been kind of planned for it. But, again, that comes at the cost and 2156 02:24:46,480 --> 02:24:52,920 the burden then of of 109 citizens of of Copper Creek there to pay for that 2157 02:24:50,920 --> 02:24:56,280 larger pipe for the benefit of the benefit of the good of the city of 2158 02:24:54,400 --> 02:24:59,600 Horace to save money on future infrastructure storm sewer. 2159 02:24:59,880 --> 02:25:03,400 But, Mr. Ryan, I didn't mean to cut you off if you 2160 02:25:01,920 --> 02:25:06,480 » No, we're fine. I'll save my comment for from Well, 2161 02:25:05,400 --> 02:25:09,200 we'll have a discussion. >> Yeah, I was just going to say 2162 02:25:08,240 --> 02:25:12,240 based on everything we just talked about, do you guys feel comfortable 2163 02:25:10,800 --> 02:25:15,960 moving ahead with anything today or do you guys want to take another couple 2164 02:25:13,800 --> 02:25:20,280 weeks? >> I have a question for staff. Um 2165 02:25:18,600 --> 02:25:26,680 I it's news to me that cash in lieu is not only for parks. Have we ever had 2166 02:25:23,840 --> 02:25:30,680 a time where council reduces it and have we had times where it's not used to go 2167 02:25:29,520 --> 02:25:33,560 going to directly to [clears throat] parks? 2168 02:25:31,560 --> 02:25:37,120 » So, not really reducing the cash in lieu much. It's been 2169 02:25:35,440 --> 02:25:42,520 the situation I could think of where we didn't use apply the cash in lieu to 2170 02:25:39,440 --> 02:25:46,880 parks was Sparks addition where we took land and that land is 2171 02:25:45,200 --> 02:25:53,520 There was land dedication instead of the cash in lieu and the land is used for um 2172 02:25:50,800 --> 02:25:56,360 where City Hall will be and also uh 2173 02:25:54,400 --> 02:26:01,240 where the Westmark hockey arena is going. Uh however, Parks did still get 2174 02:25:59,400 --> 02:26:07,560 some land dedication out of that. So, the city ended up buying a little bit of 2175 02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:11,000 land from Sparks still. And instead the park district not getting anything, 2176 02:26:09,720 --> 02:26:16,000 they were still able to get like a little pocket park and some park land uh 2177 02:26:13,840 --> 02:26:20,720 we'd say in in that racetrack area there, but uh that's So, park district 2178 02:26:19,000 --> 02:26:24,680 still got something out of it. They just didn't get the cash in lieu dedication 2179 02:26:22,240 --> 02:26:28,520 on that one. The That's the main one off top of my head. 2180 02:26:26,360 --> 02:26:32,840 » Mr. Mayor, can I add to those two other other instances? Eldorado Edition also 2181 02:26:31,160 --> 02:26:38,560 was a rejection of cash in lieu for the public works property and then Sunset 2182 02:26:35,400 --> 02:26:45,640 Valley was a reduction based off their pathway connections. 2183 02:26:41,400 --> 02:26:50,280 » Yeah, those two were Yeah, Eldorado was Eldorado was originally a cash in lieu 2184 02:26:48,800 --> 02:26:53,640 and council tried to work in through that where they could pay it over a 2185 02:26:51,920 --> 02:26:56,760 period of time and that didn't really work out to where 2186 02:26:55,560 --> 02:27:02,400 then when they did the third edition they did 2187 02:26:59,120 --> 02:27:07,320 a land dedication there instead to clean up all of the 2188 02:27:05,080 --> 02:27:12,600 previous versions and the current there. Uh and then for Sunset 2189 02:27:10,840 --> 02:27:18,240 that was a unique situation where they did a pri- 2190 02:27:14,520 --> 02:27:21,520 privately and council agreed to let them do it for a few paths. 2191 02:27:22,280 --> 02:27:27,600 » And that was negotiated before obviously before they put the paths in or after 2192 02:27:26,080 --> 02:27:29,760 they put the paths in? >> Before. 2193 02:27:28,200 --> 02:27:33,680 » Okay. And that that that, you know, that 2194 02:27:32,120 --> 02:27:35,480 I I take it these these paths are already in, aren't they? 2195 02:27:34,960 --> 02:27:37,680 » No. >> No, they're not in. Okay. 2196 02:27:36,840 --> 02:27:42,160 » The only piece we get >> The The The only piece that is in is the 2197 02:27:39,600 --> 02:27:45,640 the southernmost connection to 88th. That got put in with Cub Creek second. 2198 02:27:44,120 --> 02:27:48,720 » Okay. Yeah, there was. Yeah, I knew there was something. 2199 02:27:46,480 --> 02:27:50,560 » And that connection up to 76 are not in at this point. 2200 02:27:49,480 --> 02:27:53,440 » Okay. Oh, yeah. Oh, the full connection. 2201 02:27:52,160 --> 02:27:57,360 » Correct. The full connection. >> Yeah, the full connection. Okay. 2202 02:27:55,480 --> 02:28:02,240 » I also asked Jace for like more information. I didn't feel like the 2203 02:27:58,960 --> 02:28:07,000 one-pager just like gave me enough. And so, I feel like our packet maybe should 2204 02:28:04,640 --> 02:28:13,240 include the four-page document. It is more thorough and I think it's just 2205 02:28:11,200 --> 02:28:17,000 better to have more information. But, um 2206 02:28:15,640 --> 02:28:20,160 » Well, there's just so much done wrong. >> There's so much. I know. At the one 2207 02:28:18,360 --> 02:28:24,760 page, I needed more details than that. If the three choices are like your 2208 02:28:22,280 --> 02:28:31,320 proposal, option one, option two just special assess everything, and option 2209 02:28:27,000 --> 02:28:36,840 three is a hybrid where developer is funding the local and then special 2210 02:28:33,360 --> 02:28:40,280 assess in the regional, I I don't know. I mean, I don't know any 2211 02:28:38,400 --> 02:28:43,400 way other than number three, the hybrid, that makes 2212 02:28:41,520 --> 02:28:47,320 Unless there's more creative options, I I can't 2213 02:28:46,280 --> 02:28:51,480 I don't know what to do. >> And it would still give you a reduced 2214 02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:54,240 special for the lots. But, you know 2215 02:28:52,240 --> 02:28:59,320 » Right. It'd be about a million and five that would get spread out over the 2216 02:28:57,360 --> 02:29:02,840 larger portion of the section. >> But, I I I think the larger conversation 2217 02:29:01,200 --> 02:29:06,840 of that is council's willingness to assess that per 2218 02:29:05,440 --> 02:29:10,360 policy. And not just have that be an assessment 2219 02:29:08,720 --> 02:29:13,560 district that gets slapped right back to Cub third. 2220 02:29:11,920 --> 02:29:17,360 And I think that's our one concern of going forward to specials is 2221 02:29:15,920 --> 02:29:21,800 right, wrong, or indifferent, the appetite would be to just reduce that 2222 02:29:19,480 --> 02:29:26,280 district down to Cub third even though policy would dictate 2223 02:29:23,480 --> 02:29:31,040 otherwise. And that's kind of where my fear in this situation of going through 2224 02:29:28,520 --> 02:29:35,280 anything special assessments, A adding to the debt, B 2225 02:29:33,480 --> 02:29:38,920 does it just end up in the exact same result and we're 2226 02:29:36,800 --> 02:29:41,400 no one's out anything positive because then we're still going through 2227 02:29:39,920 --> 02:29:44,440 assessment hearings, we're still adding to the debt, and we're still taking on 2228 02:29:43,920 --> 02:29:46,440 that cost. >> Right. 2229 02:29:48,400 --> 02:29:53,640 » I wouldn't the say that I would accept it as 2230 02:29:51,200 --> 02:29:56,920 written today, obviously. I don't think others kind of have the same opinion, 2231 02:29:55,040 --> 02:30:02,120 but I I certainly don't want to miss out on an opportunity to do something that 2232 02:29:59,680 --> 02:30:05,320 that benefits uh the residents that are currently here and then those people 2233 02:30:03,600 --> 02:30:09,840 that are going to come in the future. I I Everybody probably already knows 2234 02:30:07,920 --> 02:30:12,720 this, those regional assessments are an issue for me. 2235 02:30:11,120 --> 02:30:17,240 Uh not me, I'm not the one being impacted right now, but uh I did have a 2236 02:30:14,800 --> 02:30:19,880 meeting with uh neighborhood uh group over the weekend 2237 02:30:18,640 --> 02:30:23,040 and there are a number of those folks that are are talking about leaving 2238 02:30:21,880 --> 02:30:25,680 Horace because they're not so certain that 2239 02:30:24,640 --> 02:30:30,080 they're not going to get hit with special assessments again even though 2240 02:30:27,840 --> 02:30:32,920 they're included in the most recent one. Uh so it's a concern and I I I'm sure 2241 02:30:32,000 --> 02:30:37,480 you understand that. >> Yeah, as ours as well. So we were that's 2242 02:30:35,000 --> 02:30:42,080 why we ultimately the the goal would be to do it all privately 2243 02:30:40,080 --> 02:30:43,720 with a a partnership really with the city 2244 02:30:43,120 --> 02:30:48,800 um through either sales tax or any other of 2245 02:30:46,520 --> 02:30:54,520 that revenue and or even that cash in lieu. Um council read the statute or 2246 02:30:52,520 --> 02:30:59,600 your guys' ordinance exactly and it it it is it's fairly fairly broad as to 2247 02:30:57,640 --> 02:31:03,160 what what that can go to as long as it goes to public infrastructure. I don't 2248 02:31:01,800 --> 02:31:06,120 want to you know, put words in his mouth or anything. 2249 02:31:04,120 --> 02:31:08,800 » I mean it's public facilities. >> I I just don't want to miss out on an 2250 02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:10,480 out on an opportunity to develop something that could help us in the 2251 02:31:09,960 --> 02:31:12,160 future. >> Yeah. 2252 02:31:10,840 --> 02:31:15,080 » So I I I think it requires more discussion. 2253 02:31:12,880 --> 02:31:18,200 » Is municipal facilities what what's the definition of that? 2254 02:31:16,360 --> 02:31:21,160 Could it be a road? I mean is that a considered a facility? 2255 02:31:19,880 --> 02:31:25,720 » And that's where [clears throat] the city has the gray area. It's not 2256 02:31:22,840 --> 02:31:30,120 defined within the land use code, but the the part where 2257 02:31:28,280 --> 02:31:32,880 Mr. Dabert was referencing that I read previously 2258 02:31:31,360 --> 02:31:36,920 is um the city finds that it shall be required 2259 02:31:34,960 --> 02:31:42,560 that the owner or developer of every subdivision or resubdivision dedicate 2260 02:31:39,120 --> 02:31:47,960 land for parks, playgrounds, public open space, public trails, municipal 2261 02:31:45,080 --> 02:31:51,880 facilities, park facilities, and or pay a fee in accordance with this section 2262 02:31:50,480 --> 02:31:56,160 for the purpose of providing the above-mentioned public uses and 2263 02:31:53,760 --> 02:32:00,800 facilities for existing and future residents of the community. So, we tried 2264 02:31:58,400 --> 02:32:05,120 to make it so it was more broad than just the dedication for parks 2265 02:32:03,920 --> 02:32:08,560 or park land. >> Okay. Well, that does mention trails 2266 02:32:07,000 --> 02:32:12,560 specifically if we're talking about moving forward and looking at that as a 2267 02:32:11,160 --> 02:32:15,040 but >> And I don't want it to be lost that 2268 02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:20,920 there is no parks in in Cub 1, 2, or and or even 2269 02:32:18,720 --> 02:32:25,480 an extension of of 3. Uh quite extensive. Um you know, certainly with 2270 02:32:23,760 --> 02:32:29,400 the the part of the pond that's there and and with the park, the diagonal 2271 02:32:27,160 --> 02:32:35,360 parking that was set up to facilitate fishing and and community as and 2272 02:32:32,680 --> 02:32:39,440 the whole idea from this very concept multiple years ago was to have 2273 02:32:37,680 --> 02:32:43,400 this it's almost kind of in the center of what will eventually be the center of 2274 02:32:41,120 --> 02:32:47,600 town and we really wanted to make this a jewel for there and that everyone else 2275 02:32:45,960 --> 02:32:51,280 can kind of come to this as well. So, that's why the again, the ponds are 2276 02:32:49,520 --> 02:32:55,080 oversized, the ponds are deeper, there's no cattails because they are dug deeper, 2277 02:32:53,160 --> 02:33:00,040 they're dug deep enough to hold and hold those fish and 2278 02:32:57,280 --> 02:33:07,040 and have that. Um you know, so it was all set up as a community benefit, not 2279 02:33:04,000 --> 02:33:11,400 just exclusive to to the Cub Creek residents. 2280 02:33:09,360 --> 02:33:16,600 » And and so, I guess with the the cash in lieu and the land dedication for park 2281 02:33:13,200 --> 02:33:21,240 district, obviously, there's a aggregate number of what what they're expecting as 2282 02:33:19,320 --> 02:33:27,000 far as value. And how much of that actually lands on 2283 02:33:24,160 --> 02:33:31,720 their plate is is the question going forward. Is should it be 100%? 2284 02:33:29,800 --> 02:33:34,880 Obviously, with Sparks and some of these other different things, 2285 02:33:33,360 --> 02:33:37,840 a portion of that money has been taken away from the parks. 2286 02:33:36,440 --> 02:33:41,920 Obviously, the parks is probably not happy with that. Um 2287 02:33:40,240 --> 02:33:45,520 so we as a council, I guess we have to decide 2288 02:33:43,160 --> 02:33:50,000 how how much in in the future that that we're going 2289 02:33:47,120 --> 02:33:53,600 to approve to not go land on their plate. And if there's a percentage 2290 02:33:51,400 --> 02:33:59,760 that's being siphoned off for for different like city hall or, you know, 2291 02:33:57,160 --> 02:34:03,480 the new public works. Um the those different types of things. Or 2292 02:34:01,200 --> 02:34:07,520 in this case, you know, it sounds like building a building a 2293 02:34:05,320 --> 02:34:11,560 road. I mean, I I I I I guess we have to have a policy on what 2294 02:34:09,760 --> 02:34:15,120 we're going to be able to divert that park money for 2295 02:34:13,240 --> 02:34:19,360 and how what what how much we're going to be diverting. And and I think the 2296 02:34:17,280 --> 02:34:21,480 word is diverting, isn't it? Cuz I mean, otherwise it it's supposed to go to 2297 02:34:20,840 --> 02:34:26,200 them. >> And that's I want to be clear that it's 2298 02:34:23,320 --> 02:34:30,560 not supposed to go to them. This the way the ordinance is drafted, how we revised 2299 02:34:28,040 --> 02:34:33,960 it was that the city received either the land dedication or 2300 02:34:32,240 --> 02:34:38,360 payment in lieu of land dedication for the benefit of the residents in that 2301 02:34:36,200 --> 02:34:39,760 area. So it it gave discretion to the council 2302 02:34:39,200 --> 02:34:43,360 » Okay. >> to decide. The So the park district 2303 02:34:41,640 --> 02:34:46,720 simply makes a recommendation to the planning commission. The planning 2304 02:34:45,080 --> 02:34:49,480 commission makes a recommendation to the city council and the city council 2305 02:34:48,280 --> 02:34:53,640 ultimately has the authority to determine what to do with either land 2306 02:34:51,840 --> 02:34:58,360 dedication or payment in lieu of land dedication. And when the payment in land 2307 02:34:56,840 --> 02:35:03,120 payment in lieu of land dedication is actually made, the city's supposed to 2308 02:35:00,520 --> 02:35:07,640 hold that in a separate fund for that area. 2309 02:35:05,360 --> 02:35:13,000 And so, I mean, it it's the city. The city is the one that has that 2310 02:35:09,920 --> 02:35:15,320 responsibility in in looking out for the public. 2311 02:35:13,840 --> 02:35:20,360 » So you're saying if we have that authority, technically, we would put 2312 02:35:18,000 --> 02:35:24,480 that in its separate fund and we could use that 2313 02:35:22,600 --> 02:35:28,480 for the infrastructure for that road. 2314 02:35:28,760 --> 02:35:35,480 » If that's the the council's desire, and and I know that in talking with Matt 2315 02:35:32,680 --> 02:35:40,120 previously, the city has the different funds with the payment in lieu of. So, 2316 02:35:37,920 --> 02:35:43,760 the the city's already doing it. It's just I think there's 2317 02:35:41,960 --> 02:35:46,840 there's always this idea that it's the park district. It's always the park 2318 02:35:45,320 --> 02:35:51,440 district, but it's not necessarily the case. Yes, there there the city does 2319 02:35:50,240 --> 02:35:55,320 land dedication [clears throat] for parks and holds payment in lieu of land 2320 02:35:53,800 --> 02:36:01,840 dedication for park equipment, but that's only one part of the ordinance. 2321 02:35:58,200 --> 02:36:01,840 » This might be a little off topic, but 2322 02:36:01,960 --> 02:36:09,240 the state aid that we get, is that a possibility to 2323 02:36:07,600 --> 02:36:15,920 if we were to do something like this right now with this request, 2324 02:36:12,880 --> 02:36:19,200 would that be a possibility to increase their state aid at the park level if we 2325 02:36:18,280 --> 02:36:23,000 were Just Just 2326 02:36:20,680 --> 02:36:27,280 not because I know that this the cash in lieu is not technically 2327 02:36:24,760 --> 02:36:31,000 supposed to go there, right? But, if we want to be good partners, 2328 02:36:29,280 --> 02:36:36,240 is that something that we can do? >> So, the state aid dollars go into their 2329 02:36:33,760 --> 02:36:41,200 general fund. They typically use that for operations side. 2330 02:36:38,320 --> 02:36:46,480 Where these dollars or cash in lieu are dedicated to those improvements within 2331 02:36:43,943 --> 02:36:50,200 [snorts] that development there. So, you can't change that up and the dollar 2332 02:36:48,160 --> 02:36:55,080 amounts you're talking about are probably very different. Um 2333 02:36:53,480 --> 02:36:59,880 I mean, that And then also, 2334 02:36:56,880 --> 02:37:06,520 currently we do of the state aid dollars that we get, 10% towards fire, 10% 2335 02:37:04,080 --> 02:37:10,760 towards park district. So, that would be a council decision there, too. But, 2336 02:37:09,800 --> 02:37:14,880 just so I make sure you're aware of that. And then, the other thing I would 2337 02:37:13,080 --> 02:37:20,400 just caution is whatever you would do, just I just 2338 02:37:18,000 --> 02:37:23,898 caution that anything done by the council regards like this type of 2339 02:37:22,320 --> 02:37:25,800 request or any types of request, >> [clears throat] 2340 02:37:24,360 --> 02:37:29,960 » you're probably going to get other ones. So, please make sure that whatever you 2341 02:37:28,520 --> 02:37:35,280 do, you're able to we're able to be 2342 02:37:31,480 --> 02:37:40,120 sustainable of it. Because, like I said, you're probably going to have other 2343 02:37:36,160 --> 02:37:44,360 requests. So, just be careful. >> I I'm certainly not interested in, you 2344 02:37:42,240 --> 02:37:49,800 know, shrinking the park district share dramatically through all these different 2345 02:37:47,160 --> 02:37:52,920 people jumping on board with, "Hey, let's do it let's do what they did." You 2346 02:37:51,400 --> 02:37:56,720 know, the type thing. That that that would 2347 02:37:54,000 --> 02:38:02,360 I mean, that that would be a a dilemma. I guess that's the word. But, I really 2348 02:38:00,080 --> 02:38:06,400 I really think this is this is moving in the direction of a solution that we need 2349 02:38:04,160 --> 02:38:11,600 for a headache. The headache is the word special assessments. That we we 2350 02:38:08,840 --> 02:38:14,440 have to address that as a city or it's going to kill us. You know what 2351 02:38:12,960 --> 02:38:19,080 I mean? So. >> I mean, 2352 02:38:16,680 --> 02:38:24,320 that's the thing like I think about regional assessment over 2353 02:38:20,920 --> 02:38:24,320 there and 2354 02:38:24,560 --> 02:38:29,640 I kind of have PTSD about >> Yeah, I mean, that's the that that's the 2355 02:38:28,120 --> 02:38:34,240 ultimate issue here is regional assessments. That's that's what we've 2356 02:38:31,400 --> 02:38:37,640 seen. That's what we've seen for years with these assessment districts. It's 2357 02:38:35,960 --> 02:38:40,520 the regional part of it. That's the struggle. And that's where I don't I 2358 02:38:39,280 --> 02:38:43,760 don't know if we're going to get anything resolved tonight cuz we went 2359 02:38:42,160 --> 02:38:48,920 pretty high level with where this discussion went or global, if you will, 2360 02:38:46,720 --> 02:38:52,240 where it's not just going to impact one development. We're talking about 2361 02:38:50,280 --> 02:38:56,040 impacting how the city is potentially doing 2362 02:38:53,920 --> 02:39:02,160 regional type projects and and what the funding mechanism is for that and the 2363 02:38:57,680 --> 02:39:06,480 struggle that Horace has had is Horace isn't that large where it has enough 2364 02:39:04,360 --> 02:39:10,760 funds built up where it can contribute to the regional projects as a city. And 2365 02:39:09,320 --> 02:39:14,120 so then it's well, what do you do? Because you don't you don't the city 2366 02:39:12,800 --> 02:39:17,560 itself doesn't have the money. So the only option is to create these 2367 02:39:16,160 --> 02:39:21,280 improvement districts. And then the struggle we have is regional 2368 02:39:19,200 --> 02:39:24,680 assessments. So if this is something where we need to look at this more on a 2369 02:39:22,920 --> 02:39:27,840 global level, I think we can. I don't know if the council is going to 2370 02:39:26,440 --> 02:39:31,480 come up with any decision tonight on this. I could be 2371 02:39:29,520 --> 02:39:36,160 wrong. >> I I feel bad because this is 2372 02:39:34,360 --> 02:39:38,840 what number are we on here revisiting this? Is this number two or three? 2373 02:39:38,240 --> 02:39:42,320 Two? >> Kind of 2.5. 2374 02:39:40,480 --> 02:39:44,920 » Okay. Not to speak for the developer, but I think they want the city to get 2375 02:39:43,680 --> 02:39:48,560 this right, too, because it's going to impact more than just one development. 2376 02:39:47,120 --> 02:39:54,280 » And and here's the thing, like I'm going to just be real. I I'm not ready to I 2377 02:39:51,200 --> 02:39:59,320 don't think I can vote on this tonight. Um 2378 02:39:55,760 --> 02:40:03,720 I'm I'm telling just to the council I do not want to do a regional 2379 02:40:01,800 --> 02:40:09,560 assessment. I just don't. 2380 02:40:06,160 --> 02:40:13,600 I those people over there excuse me for saying this, but they I 2381 02:40:11,360 --> 02:40:20,400 mean it they went through hell and it was not fun. This this was not 2382 02:40:16,680 --> 02:40:23,800 this was October was really bad. I think we really need to take another 2383 02:40:22,680 --> 02:40:28,040 week. Think about 2384 02:40:26,600 --> 02:40:32,600 what are we going to like what are you comfortable doing? Are you comfortable 2385 02:40:29,400 --> 02:40:36,840 setting up an assessment district for all those people again? 2386 02:40:35,440 --> 02:40:41,240 Or are we going to just say 2387 02:40:39,640 --> 02:40:45,320 we don't I mean there's nothing we can do? 2388 02:40:42,960 --> 02:40:51,320 I think I'm just not ready to make I'm not ready to make that decision. I I 2389 02:40:47,960 --> 02:40:56,240 feel like I I'm looking at the parks. I understand that they have plans. They 2390 02:40:53,480 --> 02:40:59,800 rely on a policy. Um 2391 02:40:57,400 --> 02:41:03,760 they rely on you know, having 2392 02:41:01,400 --> 02:41:07,200 almost like their CIP, right? With these funds, I'm sure is what they is what 2393 02:41:05,760 --> 02:41:09,600 they do. Um 2394 02:41:09,640 --> 02:41:16,640 but this is this is a bigger regional 2395 02:41:14,800 --> 02:41:21,120 assessments are a bigger problem for our community 2396 02:41:17,920 --> 02:41:25,600 um that have caused a lot of heartache. >> And I agree with you and like I am not 2397 02:41:23,560 --> 02:41:30,000 interested in a big regional assessment either. I don't really know 2398 02:41:27,720 --> 02:41:33,920 what to do. Could we direct staff to be looking at some solutions or what would 2399 02:41:32,560 --> 02:41:36,360 be a good thing to do at this point because 2400 02:41:34,680 --> 02:41:40,280 » I've been racking my brain. I don't know what the solutions are and 2401 02:41:40,680 --> 02:41:47,440 I don't know. >> I I do think we have have priorities and 2402 02:41:45,560 --> 02:41:50,520 once we establish our priorities, then we can make a decision. 2403 02:41:49,320 --> 02:41:53,400 You know, I 2404 02:41:51,400 --> 02:41:56,480 you know, I I think I think I pissed people off by saying, you know, I don't 2405 02:41:54,800 --> 02:41:59,960 really play baseball, you know, I'm not a baseball guy. 2406 02:41:58,000 --> 02:42:03,040 I don't have a kid in school. You know, I'm not going to not going to 2407 02:42:01,320 --> 02:42:06,600 not pay my taxes because I don't have a kid in school and they take up 51% of 2408 02:42:04,920 --> 02:42:11,160 our our taxes. You know, it's just part of life. 2409 02:42:09,360 --> 02:42:18,200 And with the city with such a low portion of our real estate tax at 19.5% 2410 02:42:16,200 --> 02:42:22,760 compared to other cities, that's that's really low. That's really low. We're 2411 02:42:21,040 --> 02:42:26,240 we're we're not responsible for the you know, for the lion's share of that of 2412 02:42:24,240 --> 02:42:31,360 that bill. And so 2413 02:42:27,560 --> 02:42:34,880 but I think Naomi's right. We can't keep you know, throwing people into this this 2414 02:42:32,840 --> 02:42:38,920 special torture chamber. We we can't keep doing that. We we've got to find 2415 02:42:36,760 --> 02:42:43,240 creative ways right now to to pay for some of these 2416 02:42:41,160 --> 02:42:47,800 these things and and specials has to be try to be our 2417 02:42:45,600 --> 02:42:51,280 last resort. That has to be try we have to try to make that Now, we can't do 2418 02:42:49,800 --> 02:42:54,840 that every time. We we at least need to try to do that 2419 02:42:53,120 --> 02:42:58,760 and if you guys are putting forth the effort and you've got an idea 2420 02:42:56,920 --> 02:43:01,840 if we can, you know, if we can move some numbers around and 2421 02:43:00,440 --> 02:43:06,440 and figure out how to make it work, I think we have to, rather than vote no, 2422 02:43:04,480 --> 02:43:11,240 just go ahead and special people. I think we we have to 2423 02:43:08,160 --> 02:43:15,880 we have to hammer out a deal somehow. Um especially like Naomi said for these 2424 02:43:13,360 --> 02:43:19,040 people, you know, we we we we just we can't put them back in the the special 2425 02:43:17,760 --> 02:43:24,960 torture chamber. So. >> And I just I just can't help to mention 2426 02:43:21,720 --> 02:43:29,320 the fact that it's two splash pads of $4 million 2427 02:43:26,160 --> 02:43:34,480 for a city the size of Horace. Plus Plus Horace didn't come along with their one 2428 02:43:31,360 --> 02:43:38,320 splash pad for many many years. I'm not There's a lot of things I would 2429 02:43:36,240 --> 02:43:42,280 like to go out and buy and get, but I, you know, my eyes and my pocketbook have 2430 02:43:40,480 --> 02:43:45,080 to be in alignment with it. And I just don't know if it's the right time to be 2431 02:43:44,560 --> 02:43:48,480 » I I am >> fiduciary responsible. 2432 02:43:46,680 --> 02:43:52,960 » Yeah, as far as being the liaison for the park district with being in my port 2433 02:43:50,360 --> 02:43:56,760 portfolio, I I I don't even talk in the meeting at all. I just sit there and 2434 02:43:54,360 --> 02:44:01,320 watch. But I I do feel that there's a little disconnect. 2435 02:43:59,320 --> 02:44:06,280 I do I do feel there's a disconnect and and obviously we're we're the ones that 2436 02:44:04,040 --> 02:44:09,920 got to be responsible with the money with the with the taxpayer money. We're 2437 02:44:08,040 --> 02:44:12,800 the ones tasked with that. When people are upset with 2438 02:44:11,480 --> 02:44:16,000 those types of things, they're looking at us. 2439 02:44:13,880 --> 02:44:19,640 And so we're the ones that got to deal with this. So 2440 02:44:17,560 --> 02:44:24,600 if if if I've got a choice between, you know, making sure a $4 million splash 2441 02:44:21,800 --> 02:44:27,560 pad goes in or our infrastructure gets built 2442 02:44:25,800 --> 02:44:30,320 without, you know, taxing everybody to death, I I'm going 2443 02:44:29,520 --> 02:44:32,760 to I'm going to build the infrastructure. I'm just telling you 2444 02:44:31,640 --> 02:44:34,720 right now that's what that's what I'm going to do. 2445 02:44:33,400 --> 02:44:38,960 » Well, I I think if you were to do a straw poll and ask the those residents 2446 02:44:37,120 --> 02:44:43,120 that would be impacted by this regional assessment, would you rather have a $4 2447 02:44:40,720 --> 02:44:46,040 million splash pad or no special regional assessment? 2448 02:44:44,000 --> 02:44:50,360 » are those are difficult things to say, especially that I do respect what the 2449 02:44:47,720 --> 02:44:53,600 park board does. I respect each each member. I don't want somebody resigning 2450 02:44:51,800 --> 02:44:58,200 because I you know, because we said that, but we we we we are facing 2451 02:44:56,360 --> 02:45:01,600 extraordinary um 2452 02:44:59,120 --> 02:45:05,080 » budget I mean it's just a special >> I mean the entire state was watching 2453 02:45:03,400 --> 02:45:09,200 Horace with their specials. The entire state. It wasn't I mean I know you know, 2454 02:45:07,880 --> 02:45:12,520 I know people in Minot and they're like, "Oh my gosh, what's going on there?" You 2455 02:45:11,600 --> 02:45:16,240 know? And and 2456 02:45:13,800 --> 02:45:20,520 to to be the the focus of of the entire state with these things going on, it it 2457 02:45:18,640 --> 02:45:24,360 definitely it lets you know that it wasn't it wasn't a little deal. It was a 2458 02:45:22,120 --> 02:45:29,520 big deal. And and the fact that you are trying to come up with with solutions 2459 02:45:26,280 --> 02:45:34,760 for us, that's I I'll spend as long as it takes to try 2460 02:45:31,600 --> 02:45:38,640 to try to hammer out a deal with that. And and I and I'll stop talking here, 2461 02:45:36,360 --> 02:45:41,920 but I I just want to I just want to reinforce my appreciation for what you 2462 02:45:40,920 --> 02:45:46,400 guys are trying to do. >> I appreciate that, but I was going to 2463 02:45:43,200 --> 02:45:53,120 say too for imagine the the the reach to Minot, I mean it it was very loud and 2464 02:45:49,480 --> 02:45:56,160 amplified here in the metro and Horace it was 2465 02:45:54,600 --> 02:46:00,200 you know, um was no longer their first choice to 2466 02:45:58,320 --> 02:46:04,160 where they would want to build because of that. Right, wrong, or indifferent, 2467 02:46:02,280 --> 02:46:08,000 the perception was that these specials are out of control and everything else 2468 02:46:05,840 --> 02:46:11,800 about it. And so that is really what kind of precipitated 2469 02:46:10,040 --> 02:46:14,480 the like, "Okay, we need to come up with a 2470 02:46:12,600 --> 02:46:18,760 different funding mechanism for this this infrastructure." So 2471 02:46:17,160 --> 02:46:22,560 » Okay. You want a couple more weeks? 2472 02:46:20,320 --> 02:46:26,240 » I I I'd like to you know, if I have to sit down with Jace or or you know, I I 2473 02:46:24,840 --> 02:46:29,800 don't know, put a put some sort of a task force together 2474 02:46:27,960 --> 02:46:33,920 or just do something. >> I I would suggest that we assign a 2475 02:46:32,080 --> 02:46:37,360 couple people on the council or not, obviously have more than what we are 2476 02:46:35,640 --> 02:46:41,680 allowed to do to to meet with them and start some discussion about options that 2477 02:46:40,160 --> 02:46:45,480 and then we can come back and report to the rest of the council as well or 2478 02:46:43,400 --> 02:46:47,760 whoever it might be. >> Okay. 2479 02:46:47,880 --> 02:46:51,640 » Sure. >> Okay. 2480 02:46:49,960 --> 02:46:55,560 » You've already been there. You're going to have to be second. 2481 02:46:52,600 --> 02:47:00,880 » I mean, I just I feel bad putting it on hold, but it's these are really big 2482 02:46:58,200 --> 02:47:04,400 these are really big decisions and you know, like the city staff said to you're 2483 02:47:03,000 --> 02:47:06,960 going to precedent 2484 02:47:06,120 --> 02:47:11,520 uh regional pro- like it's all it's like a 2485 02:47:10,360 --> 02:47:18,120 big dust ball in my mind in my mind. Do you 2486 02:47:14,280 --> 02:47:22,680 know, it's just how do you how do you move forward without 2487 02:47:21,080 --> 02:47:29,880 hurting people and hurting entities and 2488 02:47:26,080 --> 02:47:29,880 you know, it's these are big things, so 2489 02:47:29,920 --> 02:47:33,400 » Okay, so somebody make a motion, please. 2490 02:47:36,000 --> 02:47:42,920 » Uh the motion would be to table it for tonight uh to provide further discussion 2491 02:47:40,880 --> 02:47:47,440 and uh possibly meetings in the near future to discuss uh further options. 2492 02:47:45,680 --> 02:47:49,400 » You guys okay with that? Okay. 2493 02:47:48,400 --> 02:47:51,840 » Yeah, we welcome it. >> All right, so I got a motion. Do I got a 2494 02:47:50,760 --> 02:47:53,640 second? >> Second. 2495 02:47:52,680 --> 02:47:55,000 » Have a motion and a second. All those in favor, say aye. 2496 02:47:54,440 --> 02:47:57,480 » Aye. >> Aye. 2497 02:47:55,800 --> 02:48:00,040 » All right. Thank you, guys. 2498 02:48:00,640 --> 02:48:05,151 » All right. You guys just want to move your own 2499 02:48:03,640 --> 02:48:07,171 chairs here? >> [laughter] 2500 02:48:07,920 --> 02:48:14,720 » Move now to number 15, Willow Creek or excuse me, Willow Grove first edition. 2501 02:48:13,720 --> 02:48:18,480 Jim. >> Yes, Mr. Mayor and Council. Uh the city 2502 02:48:16,960 --> 02:48:22,000 of Horace infrastructure funding policy approved by the city council in July of 2503 02:48:20,040 --> 02:48:25,240 2025 allows for design fee reimbursements reimbursements for work 2504 02:48:24,000 --> 02:48:29,400 performed by the developer's engineer and not by the city of Horace. Willow 2505 02:48:27,120 --> 02:48:32,360 Grove was in the process prior to this infrastructure funding policy approval 2506 02:48:31,000 --> 02:48:35,680 and is identified in the policy as a project available for reimbursement 2507 02:48:33,600 --> 02:48:40,160 through the special assessment process. The developer provided invoices in the 2508 02:48:37,040 --> 02:48:43,360 amount of $266,121.50 in reimbursable expensive 2509 02:48:42,000 --> 02:48:46,240 expenses. I reviewed the submitted invoices and discussed additional 2510 02:48:44,800 --> 02:48:49,400 information and clarity with a developer. I provided that 2511 02:48:47,760 --> 02:48:54,840 correspondence attached. Previously, there have been $0 requested. This is 2512 02:48:51,760 --> 02:48:58,760 current request is for 266,121.50. Um the fees have been accounted for in 2513 02:48:56,120 --> 02:49:01,880 the final project budget. Um we did have all the invoices in my correspondence in 2514 02:49:00,440 --> 02:49:05,520 your attachments. Did anyone have any questions or anything for me? 2515 02:49:12,440 --> 02:49:17,720 Depends on the developer. Um this one I don't anticipate any more because they 2516 02:49:16,280 --> 02:49:21,040 pretty much capped their design on this one and that's where their the 2517 02:49:18,920 --> 02:49:23,960 reimbursements stop. It's at the end of the design. 2518 02:49:29,880 --> 02:49:33,600 » All right. Does anybody have any questions for Jim? 2519 02:49:40,127 --> 02:49:42,146 » [snorts] 2520 02:49:42,880 --> 02:49:46,800 » Okay. Further discussion amongst us. 2521 02:49:50,480 --> 02:49:54,760 Everything is all in order in order, Jim. They haven't 2522 02:49:53,160 --> 02:49:58,640 » Yeah, we they called out You see that I crossed out some stuff on there. 2523 02:49:56,560 --> 02:50:01,400 Um platting services typically are not included. That's a developer expense, so 2524 02:50:00,080 --> 02:50:03,120 we crossed those out. >> Why do they keep putting them in? 2525 02:50:03,053 --> 02:50:06,600 » [laughter] >> Uh they get the invoice from the from 2526 02:50:04,600 --> 02:50:07,880 the um from their consultant and then they just 2527 02:50:07,640 --> 02:50:10,080 » Put them on. >> They rely on us or they cross them out 2528 02:50:09,320 --> 02:50:12,440 themselves. >> Okay. 2529 02:50:12,720 --> 02:50:18,520 » So we have changed our policy on what can 2530 02:50:16,720 --> 02:50:22,920 be reimbursed and tightened that quite a bit, right? And so what's crossed out 2531 02:50:20,520 --> 02:50:25,040 are things that we no longer include We no longer reimburse. 2532 02:50:23,680 --> 02:50:29,040 » haven't included platting in there. That's always been a developer developer 2533 02:50:27,240 --> 02:50:33,720 » a couple years ago was a big debate what was and what wasn't reimbursed. 2534 02:50:31,360 --> 02:50:33,720 » Yep. 2535 02:50:35,320 --> 02:50:41,480 » So I mean I feel like if it's following the policy, I I'm comfortable with it. 2536 02:50:39,280 --> 02:50:41,480 » Yep. 2537 02:50:42,880 --> 02:50:50,760 Okay, I will look for a motion. >> I'll make the motion motion to 2538 02:50:49,120 --> 02:50:56,040 approve the design fee reimbursement request number one for Willow Grove 2539 02:50:53,000 --> 02:50:58,200 First Edition 2020 4-6. >> Okay, I have a motion. Do I have a 2540 02:50:57,000 --> 02:51:01,040 second? >> I'll second it. 2541 02:50:59,960 --> 02:51:03,200 » Have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. 2542 02:51:02,200 --> 02:51:08,160 » Aye. >> All right, 15 aye carries. 2543 02:51:06,520 --> 02:51:10,520 Move on to number 16, Jim. Your engineering and public works works 2544 02:51:09,920 --> 02:51:13,680 report. >> All right, I'll go first and then Joel 2545 02:51:11,880 --> 02:51:17,120 can can follow behind. So, the first thing I had here is County Road 17 2546 02:51:15,200 --> 02:51:20,720 shared use path out front. As you see, they seeded it, got it cleaned up, and 2547 02:51:19,000 --> 02:51:24,000 they were watering it today. So, that one is 2548 02:51:21,840 --> 02:51:28,720 uh pretty much complete. Sparks and Luther, I believe you got a 2549 02:51:26,360 --> 02:51:32,000 it's a project summary sheet in your packet 2550 02:51:30,200 --> 02:51:35,800 for that project. Let me double-check. Yep, you do. So, all the pertinent 2551 02:51:33,680 --> 02:51:39,480 information is in in the the summary sheet for that one. Willow 2552 02:51:37,360 --> 02:51:43,480 Grove is the same. Deer Creek Estates is the same. They're progressing nicely. 2553 02:51:41,200 --> 02:51:47,520 Willow Grove uh hopes to be paving the first phase or the first milestone here 2554 02:51:45,840 --> 02:51:51,200 by the end of the week. Uh Deer Creek, I believe their plan was 2555 02:51:49,320 --> 02:51:55,800 to have the underground all in, which I believe they did 2556 02:51:52,880 --> 02:52:00,080 for the majority of it by last Friday. North Dakota Department of Environmental 2557 02:51:57,080 --> 02:52:04,640 Quality has sent out requests for project questionnaires and update 2558 02:52:02,400 --> 02:52:09,240 questionnaires for their CWSRF program, which is clean water drinking 2559 02:52:06,680 --> 02:52:12,960 clean water state revolving loan fund, which is the flushable side of things. 2560 02:52:11,080 --> 02:52:15,440 And they've also requested projects for the drinking water state revolving loan 2561 02:52:14,480 --> 02:52:19,640 fund, which is the drinking water side of 2562 02:52:16,760 --> 02:52:24,880 that. So, we'll prepare the um updates on those. Typically, the CWSRFs 2563 02:52:21,920 --> 02:52:28,560 are lift stations, and then the DWSRF uh once the city went through Horace proper 2564 02:52:26,680 --> 02:52:30,840 and re- redid a bunch of the piping in there, 2565 02:52:29,560 --> 02:52:34,200 it's [clears throat] been water storage has been what's been pushed for with 2566 02:52:33,000 --> 02:52:38,040 that. The diversion 2567 02:52:35,600 --> 02:52:41,520 submitted the railroad second edition plat. 2568 02:52:40,720 --> 02:52:44,760 Um some of the 2569 02:52:43,160 --> 02:52:49,000 um lingering items on that are drainage in 2570 02:52:46,760 --> 02:52:52,640 those backyards. So, AE2S on behalf of the diversion was out at today, and I 2571 02:52:51,440 --> 02:52:56,480 believe they'll be out tomorrow, too, surveying that to provide the required 2572 02:52:54,240 --> 02:52:59,320 drainage plan as part of a plat application. 2573 02:52:58,080 --> 02:53:02,760 Uh there've been some residents that have provided some concern with drainage 2574 02:53:01,200 --> 02:53:06,800 in the back and have requested easement on behalf of the city. 2575 02:53:04,400 --> 02:53:10,560 Um this is going to identify those flow patterns and those flow paths, so we can 2576 02:53:09,280 --> 02:53:12,800 evaluate the easements. >> At a cost to the city or a cost to the 2577 02:53:12,120 --> 02:53:16,320 diversion of the >> of the the diversion. This is part of 2578 02:53:14,760 --> 02:53:20,880 what new plat in the city you're supposed to provide a drainage drainage 2579 02:53:18,440 --> 02:53:20,880 plan. 2580 02:53:21,840 --> 02:53:26,640 Uh we've got to we've got to schedule some public input meetings when it comes 2581 02:53:24,440 --> 02:53:30,560 to some regional infrastructure, so that ought to be interesting. 2582 02:53:28,320 --> 02:53:34,080 And then uh next week we have the rounds of first round of objections with the 2583 02:53:32,360 --> 02:53:37,800 special assessment commission for the seven seven remaining 2584 02:53:36,000 --> 02:53:40,480 uh projects. So. >> All in one night? 2585 02:53:39,280 --> 02:53:42,520 » No, there's two nights. >> Okay. 2586 02:53:40,840 --> 02:53:46,520 » Weds- Tuesday Five on one day and two on the next. 2587 02:53:45,040 --> 02:53:47,560 Weds- Wednesday, Thursday or Tuesday, Wednesday? 2588 02:53:46,920 --> 02:53:54,600 » Tuesday, Wednesday. >> Tuesday, Wednesday. 15th and 16th. 2589 02:53:50,880 --> 02:53:54,600 Questions, comments, concerns? 2590 02:53:55,800 --> 02:54:00,600 » Joel, you're up. >> Uh one thing I'm going to add to what 2591 02:53:58,200 --> 02:54:03,960 Jim said is after Bean Days, they are going to be shutting down the 2592 02:54:01,480 --> 02:54:09,240 intersection of 8th Street, or sorry, 8th Avenue and Nelson to uh complete the 2593 02:54:06,480 --> 02:54:11,760 construction of the Sparks development. Um so, you'll see some detour signs and 2594 02:54:10,840 --> 02:54:16,640 everything up for that, but they're going to wait until after the Bean Days 2595 02:54:13,640 --> 02:54:21,480 celebration. So. >> Any update on our uh pipe fitting 2596 02:54:18,880 --> 02:54:21,480 problems? 2597 02:54:22,240 --> 02:54:27,920 » Have not heard anything on that one. >> You know I'm going to stay on that, 2598 02:54:26,000 --> 02:54:30,800 right? It's going to be like County Road 14 all over again. 2599 02:54:29,120 --> 02:54:33,800 » You want to house the broken ones so we don't forget? We also got to do 2600 02:54:32,520 --> 02:54:36,880 » You want to You want to just put them on a plaque on the on the wall here? 2601 02:54:36,480 --> 02:54:39,760 Okay. >> Um and then about the only other thing I 2602 02:54:38,080 --> 02:54:44,160 could say is uh we did finally get our clearance from FEMA that we are all in 2603 02:54:41,480 --> 02:54:49,040 good standings with them. Um we got kind of a list of issues from the last 10 to 2604 02:54:46,800 --> 02:54:52,920 15 years that we've been tackling with them and uh last week we got the 2605 02:54:51,200 --> 02:54:55,720 official letter saying we're in good graces again. 2606 02:54:56,480 --> 02:54:58,720 » Huh. 2607 02:55:00,920 --> 02:55:07,920 » Uh any word on the water usage, uh water tower, any updates on that? And And the 2608 02:55:06,440 --> 02:55:12,600 other thing is do do we have an estimate of when we'll need to replace or upgrade 2609 02:55:10,080 --> 02:55:15,360 our water tower? >> Um 2610 02:55:14,680 --> 02:55:18,760 I You know the best time to replace it was 2611 02:55:16,920 --> 02:55:22,360 last year. Um that's kind of how it always is with water towers. Um but you 2612 02:55:21,160 --> 02:55:25,840 know you know we're still seeing high usage, especially you know it's been a 2613 02:55:23,720 --> 02:55:29,240 drought. Um the water tower is doing what it can to 2614 02:55:27,120 --> 02:55:32,720 keep up, but uh you know working with Cast Pearl Water sending us some more 2615 02:55:30,680 --> 02:55:37,120 water and we're closely monitoring it every morning, but uh 2616 02:55:35,560 --> 02:55:41,200 the town's growing. The water tower doesn't grow. 2617 02:55:39,360 --> 02:55:46,040 » So the water tower has been on the intended use plan with the state 2618 02:55:43,640 --> 02:55:52,120 revolving loan fund since probably '22, '21 as a placeholder. 2619 02:55:49,720 --> 02:55:56,680 Um at the time when the decision was made to become a bulk user to Cast 2620 02:55:54,080 --> 02:56:00,480 Pearl, they had just built that tower. That tower was funded 2621 02:55:58,600 --> 02:56:04,040 quite a bit with State Water Commission at the time, which is now Department of 2622 02:56:01,920 --> 02:56:08,680 Water Resources funds. So as the city continues planning for a 2623 02:56:07,440 --> 02:56:13,720 new tower, um finding the right time to apply for 2624 02:56:11,160 --> 02:56:17,320 another tower next to a bigger tower is one thing that we're working through, 2625 02:56:14,920 --> 02:56:22,360 but with the volume that's been used in the last year, we've got better records 2626 02:56:19,680 --> 02:56:26,000 of that now than what we had prior with it all going through a central meter 2627 02:56:23,960 --> 02:56:29,640 coming from Caswell with knowing what we're billing 2628 02:56:27,160 --> 02:56:34,320 as far as the usage is it's a little bit of an easier sell as 2629 02:56:31,880 --> 02:56:39,040 to that 75,000 gallons isn't isn't enough. So, we anticipate picking that 2630 02:56:37,160 --> 02:56:42,000 that process up. So, ever since 2631 02:56:40,320 --> 02:56:45,600 about 22 I've been in contact with Landmark Structures. They're the ones 2632 02:56:43,480 --> 02:56:49,440 who built the tower up here just if there's any questions or any we need any 2633 02:56:47,520 --> 02:56:54,480 budgeting or something like that. So, you will see the DWSRF application or 2634 02:56:52,240 --> 02:56:59,480 project questionnaire update form come through for more water storage in the 2635 02:56:56,880 --> 02:57:01,800 form of an elevated tower before the end of October. 2636 02:57:00,880 --> 02:57:04,400 So, we keep 2637 02:57:02,880 --> 02:57:07,720 pushing it in planning. It's just a matter of they're not 2638 02:57:06,560 --> 02:57:12,200 overly they're costly to build. 2639 02:57:10,440 --> 02:57:15,320 » It's all what three three four million dollars something like that. 2640 02:57:13,120 --> 02:57:17,320 » That's on the high side I would say cuz we were originally we were looking at 2641 02:57:16,400 --> 02:57:22,240 about a million gallons so it'd be similar to what what this one had. Um 2642 02:57:20,360 --> 02:57:27,600 when you have some users in the peak in July using 100,000 gallons of water 2643 02:57:25,240 --> 02:57:30,840 that's it's crazy. 200,000 I guess. 2644 02:57:29,040 --> 02:57:37,240 » It's the city hall I I take it the bills went out city hall 2645 02:57:33,840 --> 02:57:37,240 we get any calls from 2646 02:57:38,440 --> 02:57:43,920 » Casper and Oriana a few residents put down sod and used 189,000 gallons of 2647 02:57:42,800 --> 02:57:47,280 water in one month. >> Yeah. 2648 02:57:45,480 --> 02:57:50,440 So, when the bills went out and they were obviously 2649 02:57:48,840 --> 02:57:53,720 we've got the bills tiered were there any responses like what are you guys 2650 02:57:52,040 --> 02:57:55,600 doing to me type thing or did they just pay the bill and 2651 02:57:54,320 --> 02:57:59,560 » They paid it. They paid it. My guess is they already 2652 02:57:57,960 --> 02:58:03,880 knew that their bill would be high and they budgeted for it. 2653 02:58:01,920 --> 02:58:07,480 » I believe I heard that public works was able to talk to them 2654 02:58:06,120 --> 02:58:10,560 and kind of tell them that their bill is high and 2655 02:58:08,800 --> 02:58:13,720 they had just watered or just not watered had just 2656 02:58:12,000 --> 02:58:16,280 planted grass or sod or something and kind of 2657 02:58:15,360 --> 02:58:19,360 knew they were going to have to do that. Maybe not as as they got, but it was 2658 02:58:18,040 --> 02:58:23,640 going to be high. >> Okay. 2659 02:58:21,080 --> 02:58:26,520 » Okay. Uh another question. Um 2660 02:58:24,680 --> 02:58:29,800 tornado siren on the south end of town. Do you guys uh have that on your radar 2661 02:58:28,280 --> 02:58:31,920 at all? >> As far as anyone 2662 02:58:30,880 --> 02:58:36,600 » Yep. South end of town. Not not you know. 2663 02:58:34,720 --> 02:58:39,760 » Fire department additional one. >> But apparently you should, yes. 2664 02:58:38,760 --> 02:58:42,600 » So they find out? >> Thank you. 2665 02:58:40,120 --> 02:58:47,080 » Your front yard available? >> I was thinking the uh cell phone tower 2666 02:58:44,160 --> 02:58:50,040 if it's going up over there. But 2667 02:58:48,080 --> 02:58:54,200 uh I know at one point um I think there was talk about the lift station um out 2668 02:58:52,880 --> 02:58:56,520 in Maple Grove. So. 2669 02:58:56,720 --> 02:59:01,640 » Okay. And then other not any other questions for Jim or Joe? 2670 02:59:03,840 --> 02:59:08,120 All right. Hearing seeing none. Brent, you're up. 2671 02:59:09,400 --> 02:59:13,200 » Okay. For uh 2672 02:59:11,920 --> 02:59:18,320 North Dakota League of Cities annual conference, that is next week Wednesday 2673 02:59:15,760 --> 02:59:21,560 through Friday. Um we do this every year. Have they identified who the 2674 02:59:19,760 --> 02:59:26,040 delegates would be? Um 2675 02:59:23,120 --> 02:59:30,760 that meeting where they have their uh business meeting is on September 18th 2676 02:59:28,840 --> 02:59:34,520 at 8:30 a.m. For Horace's population, we would have 2677 02:59:32,880 --> 02:59:38,960 three delegates. So we need to have council appoint three delegates for 2678 02:59:36,600 --> 02:59:44,720 that. Um I understand it's Cass County Chamber Chalmers is atte- are planning 2679 02:59:41,400 --> 02:59:48,480 on attending the conference there. Uh I will 2680 02:59:46,240 --> 02:59:52,000 be attending most of the conference there. I'll probably just day trip it 2681 02:59:49,840 --> 02:59:57,280 each time. Uh and then the jolly plans on going, and 2682 02:59:55,120 --> 03:00:00,920 then Mayor Trudeau, I don't know if you're planning on being there for just 2683 02:59:58,960 --> 03:00:04,560 portions of it or just where a meeting or two or 2684 03:00:03,240 --> 03:00:06,520 if you're going to go on Thursday, Friday or 2685 03:00:05,360 --> 03:00:09,600 » I thought about just going to the mayors meeting, but 2686 03:00:07,160 --> 03:00:12,800 » Just the mayors meeting, so. Mhm. 2687 03:00:11,280 --> 03:00:16,280 So if you're attending just the mayor's meeting, then my suggestion for a 2688 03:00:14,880 --> 03:00:20,600 council would be to just appoint the delegates probably myself to Jolly and 2689 03:00:18,400 --> 03:00:24,720 Council member Chalmers that were the three that would be attending 2690 03:00:22,880 --> 03:00:28,040 the conference, but we just need to have that 2691 03:00:26,160 --> 03:00:32,040 appointed for or identified by the council. So, and 2692 03:00:30,280 --> 03:00:40,840 we'd be attending the business meeting for on behalf of Horace where that 2693 03:00:36,680 --> 03:00:40,840 » Okay. I'll make that motion, please. 2694 03:00:41,080 --> 03:00:44,000 » I'll second. >> Okay, I have a motion and a second. All 2695 03:00:43,120 --> 03:00:45,280 those in favor say "Aye." >> Aye. 2696 03:00:44,800 --> 03:00:49,600 » Aye. >> Aye. 2697 03:00:46,840 --> 03:00:49,600 » Motion carries. 2698 03:00:50,800 --> 03:00:56,480 Okay. All right. And then, uh, other items I 2699 03:00:54,240 --> 03:01:01,640 have, just last Thursday, Council approved or 2700 03:00:59,080 --> 03:01:06,040 certified the 65th Avenue in Southdale Farm 6th Addition, 2701 03:01:03,480 --> 03:01:10,480 uh, districts, the 10-day payoff period without interest. We're going to have it 2702 03:01:08,520 --> 03:01:15,520 started, I believe, for today. Just cuz of the holidays there. Uh, 2703 03:01:12,280 --> 03:01:21,600 that's a 10-day period where folks that have special assessments tied to 2704 03:01:20,240 --> 03:01:25,800 those improvement districts, their certified amounts, they could pay that 2705 03:01:23,240 --> 03:01:29,280 off without interest. So, we'll have that posted. 2706 03:01:27,280 --> 03:01:33,920 Um, I'm also trying to coordinate with council members for a special meeting 2707 03:01:32,320 --> 03:01:38,000 next week, uh, about probably early next week in 2708 03:01:36,280 --> 03:01:43,160 regards to addressing the two other districts that 2709 03:01:40,560 --> 03:01:47,440 were tabled last Thursday. That would be Ubatuba and Deer Creek 2710 03:01:45,400 --> 03:01:52,280 Estates 2nd and 3rd. Uh, so, I will be touching base with you 2711 03:01:49,600 --> 03:01:55,600 on availability if I haven't already. Um, 2712 03:01:53,560 --> 03:02:00,840 and then, also, I wish Nathaniel the best. He accepted a new position or a 2713 03:01:58,480 --> 03:02:06,600 position elsewhere. Uh, his last day is September 25th. So, 2714 03:02:03,920 --> 03:02:10,480 opportunity he felt He found He found an opportunity he felt would 2715 03:02:08,120 --> 03:02:14,600 be a better fit for him, so he took advantage of that. 2716 03:02:12,040 --> 03:02:20,160 Uh like I said, we wish him the best and appreciate what he has done here for the 2717 03:02:16,240 --> 03:02:20,160 city. So, that's all I had. 2718 03:02:20,840 --> 03:02:29,360 » All right. Um from a mayor portfolio, uh first 2719 03:02:25,920 --> 03:02:32,120 I'll also uh wish Nathaniel um the best. Um I'm sure he will enjoy his new 2720 03:02:30,800 --> 03:02:35,400 opportunity. Um probably less stress in the city of 2721 03:02:34,120 --> 03:02:41,520 Horace. Um as far as my portfolio goes, um 2722 03:02:39,480 --> 03:02:45,640 I think we uh I was going to ask Britain on um posting 2723 03:02:44,120 --> 03:02:50,360 of any positions um for the HR portfolio. 2724 03:02:48,920 --> 03:02:56,160 And then um as far as my stuff uh coming up um I 2725 03:02:54,440 --> 03:02:59,200 was going to try to make it to the League of Cities for the mayor's 2726 03:02:57,480 --> 03:03:03,040 meeting. Um I just got to figure out what time that was. Uh see if I can 2727 03:03:01,000 --> 03:03:06,800 actually drive out there for that. And 2728 03:03:04,480 --> 03:03:09,280 um other than that, uh Ross and I have a meeting tomorrow 2729 03:03:08,320 --> 03:03:11,960 um afternoon. I didn't remember that, 2730 03:03:11,000 --> 03:03:15,280 sorry. Tomorrow morning, I have a doctor 2731 03:03:13,360 --> 03:03:19,400 appointment. Thankfully, I can get rid of these uh staples. 2732 03:03:17,840 --> 03:03:24,440 And other than that, um we have Bean Days 2733 03:03:21,160 --> 03:03:29,480 coming up. Um so, we will be doing some videos, I don't know, tonight 2734 03:03:26,400 --> 03:03:33,520 or tomorrow, uh depending upon uh availability, I guess, of Paul. 2735 03:03:31,760 --> 03:03:36,480 And um other than that, that's it. We're going 2736 03:03:34,640 --> 03:03:41,720 to be having a uh uh 2737 03:03:38,600 --> 03:03:44,760 a opportunity to meet the public uh with the 2738 03:03:42,960 --> 03:03:48,280 uh improvements for uh or I shouldn't say improvements, but 2739 03:03:46,440 --> 03:03:53,120 the city hall plans for the public spaces um that we are uh 2740 03:03:51,800 --> 03:03:58,400 preparing uh for the community. 2741 03:03:55,200 --> 03:04:02,640 Those Hopefully, everybody can attend um the car show on Friday. 2742 03:04:00,720 --> 03:04:05,680 And we will be using this meeting space and probably the parking spaces right 2743 03:04:04,000 --> 03:04:10,080 out in front of it Uh uh um to have some tag boards to show some of the 2744 03:04:07,720 --> 03:04:17,600 preliminary designs. Um and we will be looking for public input as far as um 2745 03:04:14,560 --> 03:04:21,960 whether it meets the mark for process. Um if it's if it's something that the 2746 03:04:19,760 --> 03:04:26,240 public can use and make use of um but also try to lower the cost for 2747 03:04:24,080 --> 03:04:31,160 the city. So with that 2748 03:04:27,280 --> 03:04:34,520 I will move on to Russ. >> I don't have anything other than what uh 2749 03:04:32,560 --> 03:04:37,760 Mayor covered. We're going to meet with uh fire department uh board just to kind 2750 03:04:36,600 --> 03:04:41,760 of talk about uh our relationships and and 2751 03:04:40,520 --> 03:04:45,080 where we're going and where we expect to go for the future and uh get to know 2752 03:04:44,000 --> 03:04:49,600 those good guys a little bit. I don't know them at all. So it'd be a good time 2753 03:04:46,640 --> 03:04:52,880 to introduce each other. >> Okay. Naomi. 2754 03:04:53,000 --> 03:05:00,080 » Uh my meeting uh with Jim got canceled 2755 03:04:57,320 --> 03:05:03,240 uh the other day. So I wasn't able to connect with him on that, but 2756 03:05:02,120 --> 03:05:10,920 um we'll have to probably cancel next week. 2757 03:05:07,040 --> 03:05:10,920 Um gone next week. Um 2758 03:05:11,200 --> 03:05:16,560 the entire week pretty much. So yep. 2759 03:05:14,720 --> 03:05:21,000 Otherwise, that's it. >> Okay. Rachel. 2760 03:05:19,160 --> 03:05:25,600 » Uh I don't have any updates from Metro Cog. Um B and D is you you did say that 2761 03:05:23,800 --> 03:05:30,120 it's all this upcoming weekend. It's going to be great. Uh the 2762 03:05:28,080 --> 03:05:34,200 the agenda is posted many locations. The website's up 2763 03:05:32,320 --> 03:05:39,440 and live. Lots of applicants for all the things, the car 2764 03:05:37,040 --> 03:05:44,840 show, um food trucks, vendor fair, everything 2765 03:05:41,880 --> 03:05:50,000 that has an open link apparently has good turnouts. And then yep, just to 2766 03:05:47,560 --> 03:05:55,160 piggyback off what the mayor said Friday from 5:00 to 7:00 is when we'll 2767 03:05:52,440 --> 03:06:00,000 be here at the car show talking, also showing the community what we 2768 03:05:58,280 --> 03:06:04,000 what what we have planned but specifically with usable spaces for the 2769 03:06:02,760 --> 03:06:06,320 community. Um 2770 03:06:05,040 --> 03:06:09,800 and a more in-depth look at it for just 2771 03:06:08,280 --> 03:06:13,400 council. We were hoping to 2772 03:06:12,200 --> 03:06:19,080 um just show council the the full plans and 2773 03:06:17,560 --> 03:06:24,400 kind of everything um especially including budget and 2774 03:06:21,360 --> 03:06:28,760 tentatively we had looked at um like a lunch. I don't know how that 2775 03:06:25,960 --> 03:06:34,400 works for everybody but talking with JLG September 22nd at 2776 03:06:31,680 --> 03:06:37,200 lunchtime seemed to be a time that um I don't know if you guys have that 2777 03:06:35,400 --> 03:06:43,040 available. We can keep working on finding the right day for a lunch 2778 03:06:40,440 --> 03:06:46,920 that we could meet uh online or in person, whatever works for people. 2779 03:06:45,520 --> 03:06:49,120 I think they were calling it a brown bag lunch. Like bring a lunch. 2780 03:06:48,120 --> 03:06:54,000 » the day? >> September 22nd at noon. 2781 03:06:52,560 --> 03:06:57,840 » Yep, to be hosted as kind of like a workshop. 2782 03:06:54,840 --> 03:07:05,120 » Yeah, workshop like a discussion of what we're thinking. It's pending having PCL 2783 03:07:02,240 --> 03:07:07,960 there like the just so we make sure, you know, if we cut this, well, how does 2784 03:07:06,600 --> 03:07:10,760 that change the price? Like they really need to be at the table too for this 2785 03:07:09,200 --> 03:07:15,120 conversation, so. Does anybody have conflict with that 2786 03:07:12,720 --> 03:07:15,120 day? 2787 03:07:15,920 --> 03:07:22,560 Okay. Okay. Okay. September 20 2788 03:07:18,960 --> 03:07:22,560 seconds at lunch. 2789 03:07:24,440 --> 03:07:27,120 What if it's online? 2790 03:07:28,400 --> 03:07:32,840 Could be Teams meeting or it could be here. 2791 03:07:31,080 --> 03:07:35,840 Okay. >> Okay. 2792 03:07:33,920 --> 03:07:38,520 Anything else? Oop. 2793 03:07:36,280 --> 03:07:44,400 » Um nothing else. Thank you. >> All right. Chad, you're up. 2794 03:07:40,120 --> 03:07:49,240 » Um I was at the uh park board meeting. Um they approved a 2007 preliminary 2795 03:07:47,360 --> 03:07:55,960 budget with a total of expenditures of 1.486 2796 03:07:50,960 --> 03:07:55,960 million and a total levy of 1.394448 2797 03:07:57,120 --> 03:08:02,880 for their budget. So, 2798 03:07:59,560 --> 03:08:05,400 um obviously that's the preliminary, but uh 2799 03:08:03,880 --> 03:08:09,960 uh as far as planning and zoning, we've got 2800 03:08:07,320 --> 03:08:13,640 our uh evaluations for the comprehensive plan. 2801 03:08:11,040 --> 03:08:16,400 Jolly I have been working on that, so um 2802 03:08:15,080 --> 03:08:19,120 I believe is it nine different companies? 2803 03:08:17,280 --> 03:08:22,800 » Oh, we received 10. >> 10 10 okay. 2804 03:08:20,000 --> 03:08:28,200 » consultants who applied for the RFQ, so that's exciting, but now we have to make 2805 03:08:25,160 --> 03:08:34,120 a decision and I sent everybody from the CAPC all the scoring sheets. 2806 03:08:30,640 --> 03:08:38,080 Uh the deadline for those is September 11th, the Friday. 2807 03:08:38,240 --> 03:08:45,280 And once I mean once I have them, I'll compile them and then I'll reach out to 2808 03:08:42,240 --> 03:08:48,120 the whole committee and go from there. >> Yeah. 2809 03:08:46,520 --> 03:08:51,160 And it is interesting looking through these different packets, you know, some 2810 03:08:49,680 --> 03:08:54,560 people are they they want to let you know that hey 2811 03:08:52,720 --> 03:08:57,640 I we we understand Horace. The other ones it looks like sometimes it's just 2812 03:08:56,120 --> 03:09:01,320 like a templated thing that they sent out to everybody, so 2813 03:08:59,360 --> 03:09:03,800 um it's it's pretty interesting. Uh I've never been part of something like this 2814 03:09:02,680 --> 03:09:06,800 before to you know, 2815 03:09:05,040 --> 03:09:10,840 go through the different applicants, so and with that I obviously it's late, so 2816 03:09:08,800 --> 03:09:14,720 I'm not going to bloviate anymore. >> Okay. All right, with that I will look 2817 03:09:12,960 --> 03:09:16,720 for a motion to adjourn. >> Motion to 2818 03:09:15,720 --> 03:09:19,200 adjourn. >> Oh, you're in deep doo-doo. 2819 03:09:19,141 --> 03:09:21,440 » [laughter] >> Okay, I'll second. 2820 03:09:20,680 --> 03:09:23,000 » Oh, I I I 2821 03:09:22,320 --> 03:09:27,760 I recede my >> a motion and a second. All those in 2822 03:09:24,800 --> 03:09:27,760 favor say I.