1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Heat. 2 00:00:15,065 --> 00:00:17,085 [music] 3 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,875 Heat. [music] 4 00:00:35,370 --> 00:00:37,390 » [music] 5 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:47,870 » Heat. Heat. [music] 6 00:00:56,985 --> 00:00:59,005 » [music] 7 00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:09,280 » Call this meeting to order. Please stand for the pledge. 8 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:14,640 » I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the 9 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:19,680 republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and 10 00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:22,400 justice for all. >> I was wondering 11 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:28,960 First item up on the agenda today is opportunity for questions and comments 12 00:01:26,159 --> 00:01:33,040 from the public. If anyone would like to come up, please come to the mic. State 13 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:37,960 your name and address for the record. >> Which mic? 14 00:01:33,759 --> 00:01:37,960 » Uh this one over here is 15 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:48,000 how's it going? Uh my name is Dan. This is my wife Sarah. Um we live on 909 Lime 16 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:54,159 Kilm Pike, 5 minutes away down the street. and we're just trying to make 17 00:01:51,040 --> 00:02:01,600 awareness known of an issue that um we experienced last Thursday. Um it rained 18 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:06,719 3 in I think in about 45 minutes and um in the two years we lived at the house. 19 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:11,039 It never really flooded like the way it did and we had property damage as well 20 00:02:09,599 --> 00:02:17,200 as our neighbors. There was property damage that happened. Um, when the rain 21 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:22,560 stopped and I was taking videos and pictures, I walked to the top of the 22 00:02:18,959 --> 00:02:27,920 hill where Welsh and Limekllin meet. There's a development being built on the 23 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:32,640 upper Dublin side, Maple Point, and I have videos of, you know, the rain water 24 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:37,920 coming right down the hill off of their giant mounds. Um, there was an upper 25 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:43,599 Dublin cop in the video and I don't know who moved it, but there's like rain 26 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:48,239 barriers that are on the side of their property that someone moved that was 27 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:54,480 redirecting the water right down our street, which flooded us. Um, I called 28 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:59,599 Upper Dublin the day after they directed me to this guy named Tom Felton who was 29 00:02:56,640 --> 00:03:03,599 a township engineer. Um, he said basically Upper Dublin doesn't really 30 00:03:01,519 --> 00:03:08,800 have any responsibility. as soon as uh the permits are finalized. So, we would 31 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:18,400 have to take up some kind of possible lawsuit with um the builder um Blair or 32 00:03:14,879 --> 00:03:24,080 um Maple Point, and I was just seeking more information. and he said they have 33 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:28,959 already installed the rain basins so they should work but my next door 34 00:03:26,879 --> 00:03:32,480 neighbor said they might have redirected the water because they were concerned 35 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:36,000 about mud going down the sewer drains. So I was kind of wondering like these 36 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:41,040 things kind of don't add up as far as why they would move the rain barriers 37 00:03:37,519 --> 00:03:46,400 and um flood out our property. Um there's a nursery across the street from 38 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:50,480 us. They took pictures, but they had to immediately repair a bridge to their 39 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:57,599 driveway cuz they need to keep operating their business. But I have videos, 40 00:03:52,720 --> 00:04:01,040 pictures. Um, we're just seeking um is there some [clears throat] kind of a 41 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:05,519 solution that we can seek? I know Limekllin Pikes is a state road, so it 42 00:04:03,439 --> 00:04:12,080 gets maybe a little more complicated, but there's a large amount of rainwater 43 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:17,840 that comes down and you know, our our property is lower than the street. So, 44 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:24,080 we're seeking to make this known and uh in 2 years that happened and I don't 45 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:31,280 want to find out ne the next time it rains like that or harder. So, I'll let 46 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:36,320 my wife Sarah say something. Yeah. Um, we're new homeowners. We've 47 00:04:33,919 --> 00:04:41,360 had our house for two years. We got married. March will be two years. So, 48 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:46,080 we're newly relatively newly married. We're the new the newest married in our 49 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:51,759 families. Um, and we're trying to save up to have a family and it makes it a 50 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:56,800 little bit difficult when things in the community that are outside of our 51 00:04:53,759 --> 00:05:00,960 control are affecting our budget. um when we're trying to do what we can to 52 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:05,919 invest in our community. We both work within the community. I do hospice. I'm 53 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:11,440 a hospice social worker and my husband is in the pl the plumbing drains 54 00:05:09,039 --> 00:05:16,639 industry. And so we have a deep investment in the community both through 55 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:21,600 living in the community, um going to church within the community, um working 56 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:26,000 within the community. Uh and so when we've spoken with our 57 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:30,160 neighbors whom we've become very close with and friendly with, they've all 58 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:35,680 expressed that this has been a growing issue over the years where it formerly 59 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:42,080 was not a problem and then when Lime Pike was subsequently, it sounds like it 60 00:05:38,479 --> 00:05:47,680 was raised up in the past where it was formerly lower than the lines of the 61 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:51,759 property. Maybe it was like repaved or something, but they were making comments 62 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:56,000 that it would the lawns were formerly not flooded out. And ever since the road 63 00:05:54,320 --> 00:06:01,120 was changed and then the construction started up the road and the water was 64 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:04,960 coming running off of those construction sites that it's become an even bigger 65 00:06:03,199 --> 00:06:09,759 problem. And we've noticed that just in the time that the second construction 66 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:15,440 site started development because the the one that started across from the bank 67 00:06:13,759 --> 00:06:21,120 was already being built when we moved in. And then when this second one at 68 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:26,479 that intersection broke ground and they started putting the the houses and the 69 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:31,440 developments in, it became significantly worse because now it's not the grass 70 00:06:28,479 --> 00:06:36,240 being able to absorb the water. Um, and I think we just kind of want to know if 71 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:39,759 it's appropriate for police to be or whoever moved the rain barricades. I'm 72 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:44,400 not going to allege something that I didn't see, but if it's appropriate for 73 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:48,479 those rain barricades to be redirecting water directly to our properties and 74 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:53,680 local businesses and getting flooded out or if that's something that should be 75 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:55,120 going down the the rain the sewer, what are they called? 76 00:06:54,479 --> 00:06:59,280 » Storm drains. >> Storm drains. Thank you. 77 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:03,120 um the storm drains and if there's something that could possibly be done to 78 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,880 create more of a long-term fix so that way the community isn't paying the price 79 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:11,800 for builders who've got a lot of money on 80 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,800 their hands. 81 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,599 » Thank you. [clears throat] >> Thank you. 82 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:20,240 » Yeah. First of all, welcome to Horscham. Thank you. Thank you for choosing 83 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:22,960 Horscham. Um I for Were you speaking? No, I was going to pitch this over to 84 00:07:22,785 --> 00:07:28,720 [clears throat] >> I'll and then I'll toss it to the our 85 00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:32,720 engineer. Um, so we did call Upper Dublin Township as as you could probably 86 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:38,319 like we had no control enforcement or authority in another township. Um, so I 87 00:07:36,479 --> 00:07:43,360 did advise a few residents to call the Montgomery County Conservation District. 88 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:48,000 Um, they do have jurisdiction and authority um on erosion and sediment 89 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:53,919 controls on new developments throughout the county. Um, so I don't know what the 90 00:07:50,639 --> 00:08:00,319 outcome of that has been. Um, but the rainstorm is a rarity. Um, the entire 91 00:07:56,639 --> 00:08:08,319 town was flooded. Um, my I live off Welsh Road um, closer to Dresser Road. 92 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:12,479 Um, and my neighborhood was flooded. Um, when you get those type of storms, and 93 00:08:10,319 --> 00:08:17,120 I'll let Eric talk about the 100redyear storms and all that, it doesn't matter 94 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:20,960 what you have. um what type of basins they get full, the pipes get full, 95 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:27,199 inlets get full. They're only designed to hold so much water. Um so we're lucky 96 00:08:24,879 --> 00:08:32,880 in this area of the country that we don't get those floods on a normal 97 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:39,039 basis. Um so like you said, it was 3 in in 2 hours or whatever it was. That's a 98 00:08:35,839 --> 00:08:44,959 rarity in this area. Um but we've had them before. Um, and I've lived here 99 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:52,320 most of my life and had, you know, the worst one was 11 in in about 2 hours and 100 00:08:49,519 --> 00:08:57,920 um, it was bad. Um, >> so we're fortunate. Um, but I wish I had 101 00:08:55,600 --> 00:09:03,279 the answer and the solutions. We don't when we get hit by those storms and it's 102 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:09,120 just not that area of the township and it's just not Horscham Township, it's 103 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:14,880 um, the whole entire area. Um, and luckily, I want to knock on wood. Um, 104 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:19,200 this summer, um, when we've been hit by these major thunderstorms, some odd 105 00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:24,160 reason, someone's watching over Horscham, um, we they've gone north, 106 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:30,240 south, and around us, and we've watched on the news the communities where people 107 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:33,680 have lost their homes. So, um, I I um, your situation, I don't know if 108 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:39,200 everything was in place where it should have been. Um, we we did contact Upper 109 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:45,200 Dublin and I would also encourage you to contact the Montgomery County Soil 110 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:49,360 Conservation District. Um, their offices are located in Collegeville. Um, but 111 00:09:47,519 --> 00:09:56,240 they're the ones that oversee those new developments and make sure that 112 00:09:51,360 --> 00:10:00,560 everything but even if it was when you get hit by a storm like that. 113 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:06,000 » Yeah. Sometimes it just gets mother nature does what mother nature wants to 114 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:11,120 do and it just overtakes even all the erosion and sedimentation controls they 115 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:13,360 have in place. But I'll let Eric talk about 116 00:10:11,519 --> 00:10:17,120 » Sorry, can I ask just a clarifying question if you don't mind sharing what 117 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:20,959 kind of damage you sustained at your home because it could like we've had 118 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:23,680 things where it diverted from a corner of our house that's lower. So just 119 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:28,160 thinking about >> So we're saving up to redo the driveway. 120 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:34,720 So, it's a gravel driveway, but basically we've been using stone from my 121 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:38,720 work to sort of fill in where sometimes uh it was low when we first moved in, 122 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:45,440 but it basically created a giant pothole in our driveway and it was and the 123 00:10:41,519 --> 00:10:50,880 concrete. Um, and across the street, the nursery, it was a giant hole in the 124 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:55,120 bridge and they had to I have pictures. I'm happy to share them. Um I have 125 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:58,160 videos too, but they didn't really have time to like fight it out in court or 126 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,320 whatever. >> Sure. Sure. 127 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:06,640 » We can also come out um if you give us your phone number to Dennis before you 128 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:10,880 leave. Um you know, we can schedule a time like Eric and myself and some 129 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:17,279 others from the township staff can come out and take a look at things. I can 130 00:11:12,959 --> 00:11:23,279 tell you um from having spent most of my life here and working here that area of 131 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:28,000 the town is not a typical area where there's flooding problems. So I don't 132 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:32,399 want to sort of like smooth over what you experience but I want to also sort 133 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:37,519 of raise your comfort level being new homeowners that that is not an area 134 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:41,200 where we have concentrated normal flooding problems. 135 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:46,240 » Yeah. if you do come, feel free to take some herbs from the garden. Um, but I 136 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:50,320 think my question would be, is it an appropriate 137 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:57,519 response from the neighboring township of Upper Dublin to have rerouted those 138 00:11:53,279 --> 00:12:01,279 large black tubular sandbags to redirect the water down Lime Pike? Um, it 139 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,800 effectively [clears throat] stopped traffic moving in a particular 140 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:11,600 direction. And I thought it was quite odd that a storm drain, which is 141 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:16,320 designed to take on water, was being surpassed at the expense of our 142 00:12:14,079 --> 00:12:20,800 properties. Our front yard was essentially a river for a couple hours 143 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:24,399 and our neighbor got completely flooded out. Like you couldn't see any grass on 144 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:28,959 their property. And like I said, we've been noticing that water kind of 145 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:33,680 accumulates in our driveway and our neighbors driveways over the two years 146 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:36,880 that we've been in the property. Um, and by no means are we saying that like 147 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:42,639 Horscham needs to take responsibility for acts of God. Um, but is the 148 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:47,920 intentional actions of the neighboring township appropriate? That would be like 149 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:52,253 my most primary concern. >> I don't know. Oh, 150 00:12:49,839 --> 00:12:54,399 » yeah. [laughter] 151 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:59,279 » This is Chief Fida. He's our He's our police chief here in Horscham. 152 00:12:56,240 --> 00:13:04,160 » So, I saw what you're videotaping in the in the roadway. I don't think that 153 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,880 they're they're those large socks that you you know you're you're 154 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:10,720 » So these are the silt socks, >> correct? Silt socks. It looked to me 155 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:14,320 because I was trying to find I live right down the street from you guys 156 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:18,880 trying to find my way home. It looked to me that there was just so much water, 157 00:13:16,079 --> 00:13:23,200 storm water buildup on that property that it just pushed these out into the 158 00:13:20,959 --> 00:13:26,880 street because I'd love to throw shade at a neighboring police department if I 159 00:13:24,959 --> 00:13:31,040 could, but I but they they certainly wouldn't put it across as as you said. 160 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:35,760 It also blocked the entire length of Welsh. So, and I haven't been doing this 161 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:40,639 25 years. I've seen it happen before where I think I don't I think that was 162 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:44,720 just a rush of water. They do have their storm drains and and whatnot in there, 163 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,680 but I like like you were saying, I just think they were overwhelmed. So, I if 164 00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:50,639 that helps you, I don't think they intentionally did. I think that was just 165 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:55,120 mother nature doing. >> Thank you, Sarah. 166 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:59,440 » Are they supposed to be tacked in, Eric? >> So, yeah. And so, thank you, Chief, cuz 167 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,760 I was going to ask, who did you see move these things? Cuz it wasn't making sense 168 00:14:01,199 --> 00:14:04,720 to me that >> I didn't see anybody move them. I just 169 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:09,279 walked to the corner. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see anybody move 170 00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:15,199 them. It just at the corner. The the cop was just conveniently parked right where 171 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:19,760 it was happening. And then like it's obvious in the video it's like 172 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:25,199 » so so these silt socks come in different sizes and they are sized based on the 173 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:29,600 drainage area that are coming to them. Um and what Bill was saying and not to 174 00:14:27,279 --> 00:14:37,360 get too nerdy engineer on everybody but like a 100red-year storm is like 8 in 175 00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:42,800 over 24 hours right so getting 3 in in an hour the intensity of that far 176 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:47,360 exceeded the hundred-year storm. So like the Namy Creek, the Penny Packac creek 177 00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:52,320 probably had no flooding in it, but we get these localized issues. Um, and not 178 00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:55,920 to get into a political debate about global warming or not global warming, 179 00:14:53,920 --> 00:15:01,600 but we're getting more rain at higher intensities. Who knows why, but we are. 180 00:14:58,959 --> 00:15:05,199 Um, and so a lot of these local areas that silt sock was designed for the 181 00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:09,040 hundred-year storm to get eight inches over 24 hours and then it gets three in 182 00:15:06,959 --> 00:15:14,320 a short period of time and it's just too much pressure, too high of velocity and 183 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:19,040 it blew it out. Um, and I haven't driven past upper Dublin site. It sounds like 184 00:15:16,959 --> 00:15:24,880 it's still under construction. It's still bare earth. Um so during 185 00:15:22,079 --> 00:15:27,760 construction and you know Bill called me I guess about a year or two ago when the 186 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:31,519 Miracle League field was under construction and said oh you know water 187 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:36,560 went on horse road and it's like well during construction things are sized 188 00:15:33,839 --> 00:15:41,600 differently there's more runoff so longterm as that development gets done 189 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:47,120 and grass gets established and those basins get converted to their final form 190 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:51,040 this shouldn't happen again. this might just I know this doesn't like make you 191 00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:55,360 feel much better but like of what happened already but it could have just 192 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:59,839 been quoteunquote the perfect storm of under construction three inches in an 193 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:06,240 hour nothing's ever sized to deal with that um but as Bill said um you know you 194 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:11,600 get your name and number certainly happy to go out and see it firsthand um and 195 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:16,800 oftentimes and you said you're below the the elevation of the road um you know 196 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,839 because of that you're kind of like a low point. It's a relief point for 197 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:24,160 drainage on the road. And so there might be some just suggestions that I could 198 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:28,160 make, we could make that if it happened again, making sure the water goes around 199 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,839 the house and not in the garage or in the basement or whatever else. 200 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,199 » Absolutely. >> Thank you. 201 00:16:30,399 --> 00:16:39,360 » And the road just the road was paved, I think, in Pendot paved Limekill Pike in 202 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:45,600 2017, and they only pave every 25 to 30 years, so you're safe. But um they uh 203 00:16:42,639 --> 00:16:49,920 they mill. So, um, before they pave, they mill the road down. So, they're not 204 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:54,480 putting asphalt on top of asphalt on top of asphalt, like raising the road. So, 205 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:58,720 it gives that impression like it might might have been raised, but they do mill 206 00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:03,600 the road. We do too when we do our road paving. So, we take several inches off 207 00:17:00,959 --> 00:17:08,400 of it before we put the new asphalt on. Um, so that that's But it was around 208 00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:13,600 2017 that Pendot [music] paved Limekill Pike. The issue that my next door 209 00:17:10,959 --> 00:17:19,679 neighbor was talking about with that is they made the asphalt into almost like a 210 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:25,280 like a rounded curb. It's like this high off of the grade of the street and it's 211 00:17:23,679 --> 00:17:29,280 like a it looks like it might be a good idea, but it in practice of the rain, it 212 00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:33,520 like literally like ramps it into the into the yard in the driveway. 213 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:38,559 » So that was like he was like that this didn't happen before where it sits. We 214 00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:44,240 can take a look like if like um when we come out to visit we could take a look 215 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:48,640 at that and it's PennDOT's road but we can also make phone calls to Pendot to 216 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:52,880 suggest them doing different things to try to help out. And then my last 217 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:59,360 comment would be so for work I'll get calls where an older home got flooded 218 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:03,120 out at being a lower point when they just built a brand new development right 219 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:06,720 across the street and they will say our basement never flooded out and now like 220 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:11,440 it looks like the groundwater has nowhere to go because they built a brand 221 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:15,440 new neighborhood and like obviously how you going to prove that in the in the 222 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:20,000 scenario of us living there for 2 years but I just wanted to throw that onto the 223 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:26,799 record of uh I've seen it plenty of times at work. So, um, thank you. 224 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:30,480 » Um, adding on to what Dan said and then I had just one last question. Um, 225 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:34,559 there's also instances where he's told me about clients where the rainwater is 226 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:38,080 so significant on the property, the front property where the main drain is 227 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:44,400 that it causes the yard to sink and effectively damages the main drain pipe. 228 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:47,840 Um, which you get perks having a husband who's in the plumbing industry and he's 229 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:52,400 like camered our line and made sure that everything's good. Um, we don't have any 230 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,000 surrounding trees that could possibly have roots come into our line. We took 231 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:02,480 out the biggest one that was anywhere near it. Um, and so like that would be a 232 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:07,440 concern as well that if the if over time if the rain is not mitigated off of our 233 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:11,280 lawn and it's just kind of coming off of the street and onto our lawn, whether 234 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:16,080 it's one of a 100redyear storm or greater than or just standard rain 235 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:21,200 coming off of the street continually with no storm drains or anything like 236 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:26,480 that that it could potentially incur a substantial cost um to us and the 237 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:32,559 surrounding neighborhood. My question would be if Thank you, Chief, for 238 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:36,720 providing the clarity. Um, I know that in the medical world, it's very easy for 239 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:39,840 things to appear one way and then they really are a different way. It's my job 240 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:45,039 as a social worker to clear those confusions up a lot of the time. Um, 241 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:50,240 would it be a realistic action step that if we see that happen 242 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,000 in the future where the salt bags, I think you called them, 243 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:56,043 » salt socks. >> Salt suck. Okay. 244 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:59,679 » Salt sock. It sounds good. Um, [laughter] 245 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:04,960 if a salt sock is coming into the road, blocking storm drains or redirecting 246 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:09,760 water onto the properties of us that are beneath the construction site, would it 247 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:15,919 be a an appropriate action step to call the non-emergent 911 and ask that it be 248 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:20,240 moved so that way the rain can go in the appropriate channels? Um, that would be 249 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:24,880 my only ask. Like if something's where it shouldn't be and it's causing damage, 250 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:28,559 if we could n it. >> I'd say the rationale to call would be 251 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:33,520 that it's blocking the roadway and could cause an accident. So the call still 252 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:37,840 happens, whatever the outcome would be. >> That's why I was confused. The cop that 253 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:42,159 the police officer sitting there that's why it looked kind of intentional, but 254 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:45,200 I'm not trying to I didn't see it happen, but just it felt like why why 255 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,480 leave >> just to defend even though the chief 256 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:53,919 doesn't want me to. the Upper Dublin Police Department. Um, those silt socks 257 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:57,760 are very heavy, especially when there's water in there. So, the police officer 258 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,320 would not have been able to by himself move it, 259 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:04,640 » right? Like it would need like construction equipment to do it. So, if 260 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:08,159 you saw it during a storm, you could call, but like the the logistics of 261 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:13,440 getting someone out there in the middle of a storm to move it might not be 262 00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:16,960 possible either. And I'm just speaking for 263 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:21,520 someone who I don't know, right? Just the logistics of if there's no one on 264 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,559 site in a construction vehicle, it would the response time. I don't even know if 265 00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:28,400 the police would have someone they could call that would be able to get out 266 00:21:26,559 --> 00:21:33,200 there. Public works. All right. For public works might be able to do it. 267 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:38,320 » Well, life is complicated. Life has in our country has become complicated. Um, 268 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:45,600 you know, back in the 80s and 90s, life was much simpler. Um, even for local 269 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:50,559 government. um back in the 80s and 90s a police officer probably would try to 270 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:56,400 move that or public works would come with a backhoe and move it out of the 271 00:21:52,640 --> 00:22:03,039 road. Um now um because of the society that we live in um very latigious 272 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:08,799 society very um in insuranceminded society um what happens with those 273 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:12,320 construction sites is um the township this in this case it would be upper 274 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:17,360 Dublin Township they have emergency contacts. 275 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:21,600 So it um normally what happens is something like that happens, the 276 00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:27,600 township has to call the emergency contact for that development project and 277 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:31,039 they have to respond. Um I don't you know how long it takes them to respond? 278 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:35,120 Did Upper Dublin call them? I don't know all those details, but that's how it 279 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:41,760 works in Horscham. If one of our employees goes and moves that, then 280 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:46,159 workers comp gets involved >> and then they start asking us questions. 281 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,400 Why did you have your staff do that? Now you have an injured employee. So now all 282 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:56,640 of a sudden we have a workers's comp insurance company that gets involved. So 283 00:22:53,520 --> 00:23:03,039 again, it it's so it gets so life is complicated. Um so uh we do the best we 284 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:06,240 can. Um, but that's the process we follow in Horscham with the new 285 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:10,080 development project is we have emergency numbers and contact numbers and when 286 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:14,400 something like that happens, our police have them, our fire company, our public 287 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:17,760 works, our code enforcement, and they make those phone calls and says, "Hey, 288 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:25,440 get someone out here right away and get your silk sock back on your property." 289 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:29,760 Um, is how it works in the 2026. Um, 1986, our people would have just moved 290 00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:35,280 it. [laughter] Um but um but uh you know you you talk 291 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:41,919 about your uh your plumbing pipe and stuff and um you know sinking and stuff 292 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:45,840 like that. Um it's it's I I don't want to say the joys of home 293 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:50,720 ownership, but it's it's all about insurance and and Dan, you probably know 294 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,720 like you know you got to check your homeowners insurance of what they cover 295 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:58,880 and what they don't cover. And most of the time, basic homeowners insurance 296 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:03,120 does not cover that line from the house to the street. So that's an additional 297 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:08,080 coverage that you have to have to protect yourselves. So um it's 298 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:12,799 » I tell people about it every day. >> Okay. [laughter] 299 00:24:10,159 --> 00:24:17,360 » Um what would be an appropriate amount of time to expect something like that to 300 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:22,240 be moved? Like in within what time frame would it be? Like I want to give people 301 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:27,440 grace. Like we get grace from God. I want to give people grace. So what is an 302 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:31,039 appropriate time frame that we could expect something like that to happen? I 303 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:37,039 know that it's not in Horscham Township. You can't speak for it on a official 304 00:24:33,679 --> 00:24:41,200 capacity, but within Horscham on construction sites, what is a 305 00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:46,159 reasonable time for that to be remediated so that way we could apply 306 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:50,799 that in situations moving forward? >> I I mean in this situation it was 307 00:24:48,159 --> 00:24:54,720 Thursday night at like 6:00. If it was in Horscham, calls would have been made 308 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,159 that night and I would expect the next morning at some point the next day a 309 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,640 contractor would be out there moving it. Now, if it was in blocking traffic, 310 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:06,240 right, that might, you know, hey, no, we can't wait. You've closed the road here. 311 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,919 We got bigger issues. They might have been able to get someone out there, but 312 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:13,279 again, it's based on the contractor. So, giving grace, I would say the next day 313 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,960 for something like that because for a contractor, it's not a big deal, right? 314 00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:20,480 For us sitting in the room, it would be a big deal to move that. But for all 315 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:24,320 intents and purposes, that's any of these time frames is essentially well 316 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:27,679 after the rain has conceivably stopped. >> Yeah. Yeah. They're not coming out in 317 00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:32,080 the middle of the storm 30 minutes later to move it. It's likely that no one's 318 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,080 that close that's going to be able to get there. And um you know, I was 319 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:40,960 driving around Blue Bell, not right there, and there was roads closed 320 00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:46,000 nowhere near construction because the area was flooded. So, um there's also 321 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:51,640 that to keep in mind that the logistics of someone even getting there depending 322 00:25:47,679 --> 00:25:51,640 on how bad it was. Yeah. 323 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:58,880 » But again, give your names and number >> to Dennis and we can set something up. 324 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:03,240 » Thank you very much. >> All right. Thank you. 325 00:26:03,919 --> 00:26:06,919 Other 326 00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:13,080 questions or comments from the public while 327 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:24,799 uh next item up is for the approval of the list of checks. Any commentary on 328 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:30,320 this beforehand? I move to approve the list of checks in 329 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:36,919 all funds from August 21st, 2026 to August 26, 2026 [music] in the amount of 330 00:26:33,919 --> 00:26:36,919 $244,371.76 331 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:45,360 and further move to authorize payment of seam. Second been moved and seconded. 332 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:51,520 This is a voice vote. All those in favor, please say I. I. Any opposed? 333 00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:57,840 honestly. Uh, next item up is to render a decision 334 00:26:54,320 --> 00:27:04,679 on the Ross Eve Corporation Kurov Ernest Defavic 1026 Lime Kilm Pike conditional 335 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,679 use application 26-06-CU. 336 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,840 Oh, I I had a note. Turn it over to Mr. Walco. 337 00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:13,840 » Thank you, Madam President. Uh as you recall, council held a public hearing on 338 00:27:11,679 --> 00:27:19,679 this conditional use application at the uh last uh public meeting and at this 339 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:25,600 time this uh decision is now before the board. I'd uh make a recommendation 340 00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:30,240 uh for a motion that the board grant the conditional use application uh with the 341 00:27:28,159 --> 00:27:33,520 following conditions. Uh first, that the applicant comply with all testimony 342 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:39,600 exhibits presented by the applicant at the hearing on the application unless 343 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:43,360 otherwise amended by uh councel. The two that the applicant comply with all 344 00:27:41,039 --> 00:27:46,720 provisions of all statutes, laws, regulations, rules, codes, and 345 00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:49,679 ordinances of United States, the Commonwealth, Horscham Township, and any 346 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:54,720 other municipal agency having jurisdiction, including the uh D and the 347 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:57,840 Horscham Water and Sewer Authority. Three, that the applicant submit a 348 00:27:56,399 --> 00:28:03,120 corridor management plan deemed satisfactory to the Horscham Township 349 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:06,240 Engineer. four that the applicant comply with all applicable requirements of land 350 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:11,440 development plan approval for the property uh as established by the 351 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:15,279 township and as applicable and comply with the Horian Township zoning hearing 352 00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:20,080 board decision 257 which is again relevant to this project. So those would 353 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:24,919 be the four conditions um that would be subject to a motion to grant the 354 00:28:21,919 --> 00:28:24,919 approval. 355 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:32,360 Any other questions or comments from anyone on council? Or do we have a 356 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:32,360 motion? 357 00:28:32,799 --> 00:28:39,360 » I move to approve the conditional use application for 358 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:47,559 Rossi. Am I pronouncing that correctly? Corporation Care of Ernest Stefc 1026 359 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,559 Limekilm Pike 26-06-CU. 360 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,520 » Second. >> Moved and seconded. This is a roll call 361 00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:55,520 vote. >> Mr. McCarti, how do you vote? 362 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,360 » I. Dr. Patterson, how do you vote? I. >> Miss Thompson, how do you vote? 363 00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,880 » I. >> Miss Chunky, how do you vote? 364 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,399 » I. >> And Miss Staff, how do you vote? 365 00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:04,200 » I. >> Motion passes unanimously. 366 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:11,600 » Next item up is to consider a resolution approving financing by the Horscham 367 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,600 Industrial and Commercial Development Authority to provide funding for the 368 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:20,559 Gratz College project. >> Just a quick explanation um because 369 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:26,480 people might be wondering why our authority is providing funding for Gratz 370 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:30,799 College. So our um industrial and commercial development authority is set 371 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:35,600 up by state law. Um ours was set up in 1978 372 00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:39,279 and uh it follows um the state industrial and commercial development 373 00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:44,640 authority laws as well as the economic development laws of the state and uh 374 00:29:42,399 --> 00:29:48,880 these authorities and the state laws were set up to provide economic 375 00:29:46,799 --> 00:29:58,480 development opportunities across the state. Um and so our authority has the 376 00:29:54,480 --> 00:30:03,039 legal authority to provide for taxexempt um interest rates um low interest rate 377 00:30:01,039 --> 00:30:07,919 loans for projects across the Commonwealth um not just Horscham 378 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:13,279 Township. And as you know we've done others in the past. Our authority has 379 00:30:09,919 --> 00:30:18,000 done for Gwennet Mercy. Um, this one for Gratz College, as we all know, is in 380 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:25,840 Sheltonham Township currently. Uh, they are relocating to Lower Marian Township 381 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:30,799 and have um an economic uh academic uh facility that they have to construct 382 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:36,960 down in Lower Marian and Ardmore. Um, and they are looking for um tax exempt 383 00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:42,240 funding and low interest rate funding to for the project. So, our authority met 384 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:47,600 in on August 12th. They had a public hearing um and then followed by a public 385 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:55,279 meeting and they have [clears throat] um voted to authorize up to $6 million of 386 00:30:51,120 --> 00:31:04,000 funding uh to Gratz College. Again, we are we are uh the our authority is a 387 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:09,520 middle bypass. There's no there's no um financial hardship on us. It's not us 388 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:14,399 taking out a $6 million loan. It's not $6 million passing through us. It's all 389 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:21,120 done through the state laws, their economic uh state laws, the IRS code um 390 00:31:18,159 --> 00:31:27,279 that provides provides Gratz College then to go get this taxexempt um 391 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:31,919 financing. So, uh nothing's on our sheets um our audit sheets or anything. 392 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:35,919 It doesn't hurt the township. If Gratz College doesn't pay back the loan, we're 393 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:42,960 not involved with that. It doesn't hurt us in any way with our credit rating or 394 00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:49,039 bond rating. So, um staff recommendation is that you also um approve this 395 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:52,399 funding. >> Are there any questions or comments from 396 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:55,399 anyone on council or do we have a motion? 397 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:02,000 I move to adopt the resolution as proposed approving issuance by the 398 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:06,960 Horscham Industrial and Commercial Development Authority of its revenue 399 00:32:04,559 --> 00:32:13,120 notes in a principal amount not to exceed $6 million for Gratz College. 400 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:16,320 » Second moved and seconded. This is also a roll call vote. 401 00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:18,080 » Mr. McCarti, how do you vote? I. >> Dr. Patterson, how do you vote? 402 00:32:17,679 --> 00:32:19,760 » I. >> Miss Thompson, how do you vote? 403 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,360 » I. >> Miss Chunky, how do you vote? 404 00:32:21,039 --> 00:32:26,679 » I. >> And Miss Laf, how do you vote? 405 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:26,679 » I. Motion passes unanimously. 406 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:34,960 » Um, next item up is to review the zoning hearing board applications to be heard 407 00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:39,600 in September. There are two this evening. 408 00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:46,000 » Uh, yes. Uh, your first one um is a business commercial. It's located in our 409 00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:51,840 R six uh zoning district um retirement prosperity group at 424 Dresser Road. I 410 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:57,039 won't go into a introduction because their council here is tonight. Mr. 411 00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:00,559 Serria is going to present their application to you this evening. 412 00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:05,840 » Thank you very much. Uh yes, my name is Rob Sia from Elliot Greenleaf on behalf 413 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:09,840 of the applicants uh Lisa and Daniel Baram and their their company uh 414 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:14,320 Retirement Prosperity Group. I am joined tonight uh by the applicant Lisa as well 415 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:19,039 as the architect on the project Jeff Famma as well as the engineer Jun Pac. 416 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:24,240 Um the application's pretty straightforward. Uh we're proposing a 417 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:28,159 750 foot uh square foot addition uh to the existing non-conforming structure. 418 00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:31,679 Uh and that's to accommodate ADA compliant restrooms. Uh what I call a 419 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:36,880 conference room, but it's really a larger uh receptionist area to greet 420 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:40,880 clients as they come in and as well as converting the existing barn on the 421 00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:46,559 property into an additional uh kind of office meeting space, not necessarily 422 00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:50,640 offices themselves. Um due to the the site uh and the various setbacks and the 423 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,080 widening of the road, it's an extremely narrow building envelope. It's 424 00:33:51,919 --> 00:33:59,360 approximately 15 feet deep, which is why the the structure is non-conforming. Um 425 00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:02,960 so in order to accommodate the uh the proposed addition, we're expanding 426 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:07,039 laterally and then slightly into the rear yard setback. And that's mainly for 427 00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:11,760 those bathrooms. Um because of that, we're requesting three points of relief. 428 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:15,839 The first is to um to expand into that rear yard setback. The second one is to 429 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:19,919 reduce the number of required parking spaces um because of the the conversion 430 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:24,560 of the barn and the additional square footage. The parking calculations um in 431 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:27,200 our opinion are are a little high um based on the number of employees, the 432 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:32,720 fact that they usually only see one or two clients at a time. We're proposing 433 00:34:29,359 --> 00:34:36,159 18 spaces. Um so we would we a sea of parking as is and we don't anticipate 434 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:39,599 needing any more parking than there currently is even though we are adding 435 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:43,040 additional spots already. And then additionally, because it's an existing 436 00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:48,720 um non-conforming, there's a provision in the code that allows you to expand up 437 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:53,280 to 25%. Um we're requesting to expand to 28.3% and part of that also is uh as a 438 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:56,879 result of the additional square footage from the barn. Um so we're here tonight 439 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,960 to answer any questions that you may have. Um and of course we we'd love a 440 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:05,520 letter of support, but if the board council decides to stay neutral, that's 441 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:11,359 that's acceptable as well. council 442 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:19,160 was recently there on a tour. So, um I know I think your husband or you were 443 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,160 there in the hospital with my son. 444 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:23,920 » It's okay. >> So, I know they're very familiar with 445 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:27,440 the property. >> Um and the staff recommendation on this 446 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:34,240 one, Mr. >> This um staff recommendation would be 447 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:37,920 neutral. Um, and if they do get as a if they do get their variances, they would 448 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:43,599 be back in front of you with some type of level of land development, whether 449 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:48,079 it's a waiver, minor, or full, but it they would be back in front of you. But 450 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:55,000 the staff's recommendation would be neutral. 451 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,000 » Well, in alignment with that. 452 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,520 » All right. Thank you. 453 00:36:12,079 --> 00:36:15,079 Thanks. 454 00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:25,240 » Okay. 455 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:32,400 Next item up is Benjamin and Nicole Hoover, 322 West Morland A. 456 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:38,320 » The next one is a residential and our R4 zoning district. Um they they they 457 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:46,560 jumped ahead a little bit um and and got in their um basketball court before u 458 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:50,640 they knew um about um zoning and and um fig and we figured out that there was an 459 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:55,520 impervious coverage issue. So, this isn't a scale um but this is what they 460 00:36:53,760 --> 00:37:01,760 submitted in their application. But you can see the basketball court in the rear 461 00:36:57,599 --> 00:37:06,560 of the house um and that has been built and it's an impervious coverage where 462 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:13,119 they're allowed 25%. Um and uh they would be at and are at 463 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:17,839 28.7% with the basketball court. Um they have 464 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:23,520 I don't know if it's up yet or not. Um they aside from this zoning, they have 465 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:27,920 um um put in a fence application for a 6-ft privacy fence in their rear yard. I 466 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:32,880 don't know if that's done yet or not, but unrelated to this application. It's 467 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:39,280 just FYI. Also, you'll see in your application um they did um hire an 468 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:47,680 engineer, Protra Engineering. Um they have committed [music] to um a uh 469 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:54,960 seepage pit um uh designed engineered designed um so I I they met um with 470 00:37:52,000 --> 00:38:00,800 Kelsey and and Mike Shinton and myself and u we were on their property we met 471 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:09,440 with them. You know, I I do in this case feel that um they um just got ahead of 472 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:15,200 things and nothing was intentional and um that they're genuine in trying to 473 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:20,880 correct their mistake by submitting a zoning hearing board application by 474 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:25,920 hiring an engineer. Um usually at this percentage, as you know, uh the 475 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:31,359 homeowners don't hire engineers. Um so they've hired an engineer and um he's 476 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:36,640 designing either a stone seepage bed system or a surface stormwater storage 477 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:43,520 area um to help with the impervious coverage um um and I think the staff 478 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:50,440 recommendation is neutral um with the condition that um the storm water 479 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,440 control feature is installed. 480 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,280 » Any questions, comments from council? Are we 481 00:38:53,839 --> 00:38:59,880 in agreement? >> Yes. 482 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,880 » Okay. All right. 483 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:07,680 Uh, next item up is to review a request for a waiver of land development from 484 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:14,560 the Ukrainian American Sports Center, one lower state road to construct a 485 00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:19,520 synthetic turf field 23-07-W. >> As everyone is very familiar with the 486 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:23,760 Ukrainian Club at lower state and county line. Um, been in town a long time. just 487 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:29,520 had their festival this past weekend that I heard was a great success. Um so 488 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:34,079 um they have done this in the past. Um they've converted some grass fields to 489 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:39,119 art, um synthetic turf, artificial turf, whatever you like to call it. Um and 490 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:44,800 they are looking to do it again to convert some of grass fields to 491 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:49,200 artificial synthetic turf. Um and in Horscham we've always considered these 492 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:53,440 projects even ourselves our own Horsesh soccer association the Miracle Field 493 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:58,960 Hatport Horscham School District they've all been in front of you for a waiver of 494 00:39:55,440 --> 00:40:05,119 land development for um turf fields and they are present this evening to review 495 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:10,800 um your their request to get a waiver of land development from you. 496 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:15,520 So, if you want to just make sure that's on. 497 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:19,119 There you go. And just I I got your what you sent us today. So, you just tell me 498 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:22,720 to flip flat back and forth and just explain your project and what you want 499 00:40:22,240 --> 00:40:26,320 to do. >> Great. So, my name is Amanda Rose. I'm 500 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:32,000 an engineer with Tarquette Sports Design. Um, sorry. 501 00:40:29,839 --> 00:40:35,920 » Move the mic, too. It >> Hello. Okay. Great. My name is Amanda 502 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:41,200 Rose. I'm an engineer with Tarquet Sports Design and um we're all familiar 503 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:47,200 with Ukrainian Sports Center site. So we have an existing conditions presentation 504 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:52,720 up there and it's three grass sports fields with existing sports lighting. Um 505 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:56,960 you could change the and as you can see we're going to turf 506 00:40:54,960 --> 00:41:04,240 we're proposing to turf two of the fields and then use the top soil to 507 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:08,800 raise the third field. Um we have NPDS coverage already for this site and 508 00:41:07,359 --> 00:41:14,960 we are just looking for a waiver of land development. Um same use. 509 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:19,920 Um there is some pedestrian access to the lower field and that is 510 00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:24,480 ADA compliant. It also connects to the upper turf fields. There is a pathway 511 00:41:22,319 --> 00:41:31,240 around the field, bleacher pads, sports lighting, and we have a path for um 512 00:41:27,119 --> 00:41:31,240 maintenance vehicles to access. 513 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:40,400 » I think um one thing that I I know internally at the staff and I brought up 514 00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:44,640 to Dan, do you guys want to introduce yourselves too just so we know 515 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:49,040 » who's sitting in front of us? >> Sure. Uh my name is Joe in Piriali. I'm 516 00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:53,359 I'm a board member for the Philadelphia Ukrainian Nationals, a volunteer and 517 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:56,079 I'll let Mr. Nisher. >> Yeah. 518 00:41:53,839 --> 00:42:00,319 » Uh introduce yourself as well. >> Just share the space. [laughter] 519 00:41:58,319 --> 00:42:06,880 » Yeah. That's funny. >> Does this work as well? 520 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:12,720 » I'm Dan Nes. I I sit on the Philadelphia Ukrainian Nationals board and the 521 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:17,040 Ukrainian American Sports Center board and um been all day, all weekend at the 522 00:42:15,359 --> 00:42:22,000 festival. Thank you for mentioning the festival. 523 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:28,079 » Um the one issue and I'll let Eric um talk about the review letter, but I 524 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:32,240 think at at the staff level is is this um you mentioned about the trail and and 525 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:37,359 stuff and it's called it's it's mentioned in the Gilmore review letter 526 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:45,440 where you you do all the ADA compliance around the field. You had the but you 527 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:50,160 end right here. And it suggested if if you went 528 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:55,680 full land development, you'd be required under our land development code to take 529 00:42:52,319 --> 00:43:03,440 this to the driveway. So someone in a wheelchair um could be dropped off here, 530 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:11,119 get on the asphalt path um and get there um to the spectator area or the 531 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:16,480 sideline. Um, so, um, that's a requirement in our land development 532 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:20,720 ordinance and that was mentioned in our engineers review letter that there's no 533 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:25,119 connection there. >> So, the club is planning on putting a 534 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:29,520 pathway there. That will just be after the turf fields are constructed, but 535 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:35,359 they will be doing that. And the area leading from the path that we show to 536 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:39,839 the parking is already ADA compliant. It's under 5% slope. So, we see no 537 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:42,960 issues with them. 538 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,680 » Can you identify where that path is? >> Um, so I actually have 539 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:51,119 » another plan. >> Are we able to like stick one on 540 00:43:49,359 --> 00:43:55,440 » I have to I don't know if it's on one of these plans. Is it on one of these? 541 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,760 » No. No. I just Okay. >> Sorry. 542 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:01,200 » Um, >> I can try. I can try. 543 00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:05,440 » You like zoom in to just >> Do we have the pointer? I guess the 544 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:08,640 question is why do it afterwards and not do it while the contractor who's putting 545 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:14,000 all the other stuff's there. >> Um 546 00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:21,280 » yeah, I I I think that's a kind of a to be honest a continuity of of planning um 547 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:26,079 type of operation. I came in as a volunteer 548 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:31,839 um when this project was under a different design builder. 549 00:44:28,319 --> 00:44:39,680 um we weren't having a ton of um successful progress. Um we spent um just 550 00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:48,319 an inordinate amount of time with the conservation district. Um 551 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:55,200 over a year um trying to get um our permit in this respect. Um getting this 552 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:59,599 financed and approved has really been our attention. it was drawn to our 553 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:04,400 attention in the Gilmore letter that we need to make this connection. So, we did 554 00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:12,800 make the request uh that we get a plan for that. Um and that is our intention. 555 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:19,119 Um and the question was would we do it after we would have target do it as part 556 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:25,440 of this project? It's not part of these plans that we've bied about for the last 557 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:31,440 two years, but we have had them come in and and create a new plan in order to 558 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:35,839 have a path that fully extends. And it would be our intention to have that 559 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:40,240 these fields open with that plan that that path completed. 560 00:45:37,599 --> 00:45:45,359 » So, I know it's not shown on this plan. So, if I'm understanding you, if I'm 561 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:49,599 understanding things, it's going to be done. it just will be the last thing 562 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:55,839 that is done with this project. So if council um if council agrees to give you 563 00:45:53,200 --> 00:46:00,160 a waiver of land development, one of the conditions of that will be that path 564 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:04,079 continuing and finishing to the driveway. 565 00:46:01,359 --> 00:46:09,839 » Yeah, we're we're fully comfortable and committed to that. And um yes, 566 00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:14,480 » just a quick question. So is it going to connect to the path that you're saying 567 00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:18,640 goes to the parking lot? It's going right right to the driveway and driveway 568 00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:22,079 goes to the parking lot. >> I guess someone 569 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:27,440 » what she was saying is the slopes right now allow it to be ADA compliant. The 570 00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:30,319 surface itself is not ADA compliant until they put the trail in. 571 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:36,319 » Does that make sense? >> I think so. But do we 572 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:43,520 is it Sorry. If there's a connection directly to a parking lot versus 573 00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:47,280 directly to the to the driveway, does that accomplish the same goal or it 574 00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:49,680 has to connect to >> what driveway? Can you point I'm sorry. 575 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:53,760 Can you show me what >> this is? This is this is lower state 576 00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:57,680 road here. So, this is your driveway in there. Parking lots over here. 577 00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:02,800 » There's another small parking lot, I believe. Keep going 578 00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:05,520 up right there. Whoop. Nope. Isn't there another small parking lot right next to 579 00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:10,960 the building there? >> No. The um the the bridge right there 580 00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,839 goes over the little creek below right there. 581 00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:16,960 » Yep. >> There's a pathway on both sides of that. 582 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:21,359 » There's a white barrier there. So, there is a walkway there that's ADA compliant 583 00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:26,800 right now that goes right to the driveway, right to the parking lot 584 00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:31,680 » and that would extend right right to the turf. the um 585 00:47:29,359 --> 00:47:34,560 » I've directed parking during tournaments before and I thought there was some 586 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:39,359 handicapped parking >> in that area. Is that 587 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:41,760 » like for special events? Oh, it's grass. >> Got it. Thank you. 588 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:47,440 » Yeah. >> And we did park on a grass festival. 589 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:52,079 » So or they they would meet our ordinance that they bring this trail out to the 590 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:55,119 driveway. So someone in, let's just use someone with their wheelchair could be 591 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:59,520 dropped off here and then the car could go park in the parking lot in the 592 00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:04,640 handicap and then pick them up, you know, when they're done. As long as the 593 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:10,000 wheelchair has that accessibility that >> it, you know, as as it was mentioned, 594 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:14,640 the slope is fine, but the surface is not. And but they've already you you've 595 00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:20,960 agreed to put it in. So, you've agreed to put that trail connection in, path 596 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:28,480 connection into the driveway, and that'll be a condition of their um 597 00:48:25,839 --> 00:48:32,079 your approval if if you pass the resolution. That was one issue. I don't 598 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,760 know if Eric, if there's any other >> I mean, that was the this was our fourth 599 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:40,079 review, so it really got narrowed down. So, I think just the condition that they 600 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:43,920 comply with our August 10th letter, which includes that comment, is all you 601 00:48:42,240 --> 00:48:47,599 guys need to do. And then we'll make sure at the end of construction that 602 00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:52,400 that path's in there. >> So, and I want to confirm that as well 603 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:56,240 that that path will be installed prior to use of this field. Is that our 604 00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:00,960 understanding? Okay. >> Yes. 605 00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:03,520 » I can Are we Are we still the way question? 606 00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:08,559 » Okay. I have another question. I'm just curious cuz you mentioned that they're 607 00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:12,720 going to take the um soil that's going to get scooped up when you put the turf 608 00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:20,240 field down and move it and raise elevate the other field. Is there any 609 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:26,160 environmental engineering questions, concerns of changing 610 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:28,319 elevation and slope, etc., etc., on that lot? 611 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:31,200 » No. And and like they told you, they've been through the conservation district 612 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,960 for longer than they ever imagined it would have taken. Um, 613 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,599 » was it in relation to that? Is that what that was about? 614 00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:41,920 » So, they need they need what you call an MPDES permit, which is a environmental 615 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:46,720 permit that D issues through the conservation district. Um, so although 616 00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:50,400 they're raising it, they're not they're this artificial turf fields act like 617 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:55,359 impervious because the water goes right through and right off. From a stormwater 618 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:59,040 perspective, they're not really changing disorder 619 00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:03,920 characteristics. A that slopes a little higher, but they're not adding runoff 620 00:50:01,359 --> 00:50:08,880 and and these guys know the conservation district probably made you change the CN 621 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:14,000 numbers. So, you know, so they have taken care of any kind of stormwater 622 00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:18,640 concerns through that process um with raising that field. 623 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:23,119 » Okay. But this stormwater cons concerns really because of the increase in 624 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:25,760 impervious coverage by the artificial fields. 625 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:30,160 » Correct. that that is the main driver of the storm water on this project, not 626 00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:33,760 raising that field. >> It's sort of almost identical to our 627 00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:38,240 horse and soccer association when they put their artificial turf in. Uh they 628 00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:45,720 moved all the soil to one of their other fields and they raised that field um as 629 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,720 part of their project. 630 00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:54,559 They also needed an NPDS permit um to for their project. 631 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:57,440 And so those were you've already received those then? 632 00:50:55,440 --> 00:51:01,359 » We have. Yes. >> Okay. 633 00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:06,319 » So what will happen now is council's next meeting is September 9th. Um the 634 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:10,800 solicitor will prepare a resolution for council to consider um the waiver 635 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:15,599 approving the waiver at their September 9th meeting. Um based upon this 636 00:51:13,359 --> 00:51:21,359 discussion this evening. Um, in the meantime, um, I can get a 637 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:25,839 pre-construction meeting scheduled, um, while we wait for September 9th to come 638 00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:31,160 and so we can have that scheduled and ready to go right after, um, September 639 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,160 9th. 640 00:51:31,359 --> 00:51:35,119 » Great. >> That's [laughter] great. 641 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:38,000 » Thank you. >> We're excited to start. Thank you. 642 00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:41,599 » Yeah. Thank you very much. >> Yeah. 643 00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:45,390 » All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. 644 00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:49,800 say perogi's for everybody, right? [laughter] 645 00:51:46,079 --> 00:51:49,800 » I love me perogi. 646 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:56,000 » Okay, so next item up is just to announce that our next Horscham Township 647 00:51:54,800 --> 00:52:01,680 Council meeting will be held on Wednesday, September 9th at 6:00 p.m. Uh 648 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:06,960 farmers market is every Sunday, June through October, 10 to 1 at the library. 649 00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:11,839 Horscham Restaurant Week is September 13th to the 18th. I believe there's 650 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:16,800 already been some advertisements about it on social media, so you can find the 651 00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:24,480 full list of participating restaurants there. Carpenter Cross Bike Race is at 652 00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:30,640 Chestnut Creek Park September 19th, 8:00 a.m. to 400 p.m. And our eco event, eco 653 00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:35,280 event, tree giveaway, e-waste, and shredding will take place at the 654 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:39,920 municipal complex right here. Um, October 3rd. Well, in the parking lot, 655 00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:44,000 not like here. Here. October 3rd, uh, 900 am to 11 am. And with that meeting, 656 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:48,880 » and I would just say if you haven't been to the Carpenter Park, um, and it's 657 00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:54,720 become, and I'll let maybe Dennis say a few words about it, but it has become a 658 00:52:51,599 --> 00:53:00,319 destination bike race where we have people from sometimes four to six 659 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:06,240 different states coming to the race. Um, Dennis started this um, and has done a 660 00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:10,559 great job uh, with it. And um but I would encourage you when I I'm not I 661 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:16,800 don't bike race. So when he first started this um event um and I I saw all 662 00:53:14,240 --> 00:53:21,760 the yellow tape I was like what you know um but I went and watched and it's 663 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:27,280 really fun just to watch just to watch the bike racers and doing their thing. 664 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:33,119 But let Dennis say a few words. Yeah. So um we're fortunate enough to be a part 665 00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:36,960 of the um Pennsylvania state um cycle cross series. So that brings out a lot 666 00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:41,920 of people from uh different states around us. It's always cool to see the 667 00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:47,760 heat map from when people register. It's all the way from Connecticut down to um 668 00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:52,720 Lake Virginia area and uh for two years in a row. I remember we had a gentleman 669 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:57,359 from Colorado. Um he was here for work, but he liked it so much that he timed 670 00:53:55,359 --> 00:54:02,240 his work to be here again the next year so he could race in the race. And um 671 00:54:00,559 --> 00:54:09,119 it's really shaping up for this year. We're really excited because we're very 672 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:13,280 very fortunate to be able to have our third 673 00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:18,240 um different race in a different park which is like unheard of. So it's the 674 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:23,359 trifecta this year and uh it's going to be at Chestnut Creek Park and we're 675 00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:27,760 really looking forward to it and um it's our eighth year so it's kind of crazy. 676 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,960 I'm really looking forward to the 10th. Um, 677 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:34,880 but ju let's just hope that it's a nice sunny day and the weather's nice. 678 00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:39,200 » And we appreciate the Hawks football program. Uh, they're they're working 679 00:54:36,720 --> 00:54:43,760 with us and they're away that weekend. So, um, 680 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:48,880 » we appreciate them working with us. >> Thank you for all the work you put into 681 00:54:45,359 --> 00:54:53,440 planning that. It's awesome. >> All our kids. No, I'm kidding. 682 00:54:50,319 --> 00:54:55,839 » Well, maybe not. Not me. Um, no, I meant I'm not kidding because I 683 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,328 will sign Henry up. >> Oh, but I won't be here. Anyho 684 00:54:57,307 --> 00:54:59,328 [laughter] 685 00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:04,280 um okay and with that meeting is journed.