1 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:07,439 the king. [laughter] >> Call our meeting to order with the 2 00:02:05,119 --> 00:02:12,160 pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of 3 00:02:09,599 --> 00:02:16,959 America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, 4 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:20,440 indivisible, with liberty and justice for all for all. 5 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:30,239 control the TVs. The first item was ICS. Are we going to kind of skip over that? 6 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:32,800 » Yeah, ICS um had a little delay this morning. So, they're going to be here a 7 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:38,360 little after 10. So, we'll do solid waste and human services. 8 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,360 » Hi, Josh. 9 00:02:38,511 --> 00:02:40,531 [clears throat] 10 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,000 » All right. Good morning. 11 00:02:47,519 --> 00:02:53,519 Um so yeah this morning going to go through I guess our proposed uh 2027 12 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:58,480 budget. Um 13 00:02:55,519 --> 00:03:02,400 we are I guess overall the budget is coming in looking a little bit lower 14 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:08,159 than it is in 2026. Um so that's a positive. Uh don't have 15 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:12,959 quite as many projects um in the hopper this next year. Um we are looking at um 16 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:18,480 having a solid waste assessment increase of about 3% and I'll kind of get into 17 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:24,800 that when we a little bit more when we um go through our slide packet here. Um 18 00:03:22,319 --> 00:03:30,640 and then also uh tipping fees. We're looking at adjusting them some which 19 00:03:26,640 --> 00:03:37,120 I'll get into. Uh we're looking at uh uh proposing a slight increase to FTE for 20 00:03:33,519 --> 00:03:42,720 2027 um to try to help cover um during staff shortages that we've experienced 21 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:47,200 uh during extended leaves. Um I've attached our updated 10-year capital 22 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:50,879 plan. Um and we're continuing to plan for 23 00:03:48,959 --> 00:03:56,560 long-term uh regional demolition landfill changes with that. And then uh 24 00:03:54,720 --> 00:04:02,959 at the end here I was going to discuss uh our 2026 department reorganization um 25 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:07,760 that we've been working on. Uh Mary's put a lot of time into this um and 26 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:12,560 putting a lot of time into just looking at our department and uh going through 27 00:04:10,799 --> 00:04:17,600 uh starting a reorganization process with that. So, um maybe since Mary's 28 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:22,800 here, we can we'll jump into maybe do that first um part of it first and then 29 00:04:19,919 --> 00:04:29,040 I can come back and go through my um budget. But if you go to the last I 30 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:39,360 think the last slide in my packet um it shows our uh 31 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:45,440 proposed organizational chart. Um, and kind of what uh what kicked this off 32 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:49,840 was we had uh um a new supervisor level position that we had budgeted for last 33 00:04:47,759 --> 00:04:54,000 year and once we started working on filling that position realized we should 34 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,360 take a look at our entire department and make sure you know the different staff 35 00:04:55,759 --> 00:05:01,600 positions are aligned appropriately through that. Um, so working with Mary 36 00:04:59,759 --> 00:05:08,240 and working with DDA, we went through that process of um, update updating job 37 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:13,280 descriptions, uh, making sure they u job titles kind of fit and have a clear 38 00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:21,759 outline of what the job and duties entail. And then also uh through that 39 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:25,600 process looking at um expanding our uh um adding another level of operator 40 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:30,160 position um just for some of the more advanced equipment that we operate at 41 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:33,840 our facility. Um but pretty much what we did here was look at separating out you 42 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:38,560 know a portion of our staff under the recycling or sustainability branches and 43 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:43,280 a portion under the the solid waste operation type branches. um with this 44 00:05:41,919 --> 00:05:48,880 process and looking at the job descriptions um some of the descriptions 45 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:55,919 um we'll be look would be looking at uh grade increases and to better align with 46 00:05:51,360 --> 00:06:01,759 the um um the market and also the county's internal structure as well. So 47 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,680 um so I don't know if Mary if you have 48 00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:08,800 anything >> Josh could I just comment on on 49 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:13,600 something? So actually this discussion happened when we were in union 50 00:06:10,479 --> 00:06:19,120 negotiations and they talked about how um the highway was broken down into um 51 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:24,160 categories of what they operate and solid waste did not have that. So this 52 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:28,000 came as a request to look at the positions. 53 00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:32,000 » Yep. Yeah. I don't know that there's anything else that I would necessarily 54 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:36,000 add to it. Um just that you know a lot of time and effort went into looking at 55 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:40,639 the differences in um the other counties. um internal structure, making 56 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:45,680 sure that we were aligned. Um hopefully, you know, this will be something that'll 57 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:48,560 um work for Josh for years to come. So, um 58 00:06:47,199 --> 00:06:53,520 yeah, I don't think there's anything necessarily that I I think we need to 59 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:58,000 add to what you've already said. >> So, you're looking to add the two 60 00:06:55,919 --> 00:07:01,759 temporary positions. Is that right? Part time. Um so that'll be I'll discuss I 61 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:06,240 guess that as portion as will go through my budget but that's you know that'll be 62 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:11,520 a ask for next year but um >> and those are to fill in for uh family 63 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,880 paid leave. So in other words it might be a wash then 64 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:19,120 » yeah so I yeah we can I guess we can jump into that now too. So, we got uh 65 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:23,039 like this year for instance, we had three full-time employees that were out 66 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:27,520 on leave at the same time and it really impacts our impacted our operation where 67 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:31,520 we're not able to um do a lot of the extras such as, you know, getting our 68 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:36,319 grinder in use and having enough to really fill our facility and and catch 69 00:07:33,599 --> 00:07:40,479 up on these different projects. So, um just trying to brainstorm some possible 70 00:07:38,319 --> 00:07:44,800 solutions. I' I've thought if we could get a temporary positions, you know, 71 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:49,599 they're limited to 67 days and if needed, you know, we could have them on 72 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,880 kind of on standby to fill in either, you know, if we have le running to 73 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:56,560 leaves or if we, you know, are between positions with, you know, people 74 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:01,440 resigning or trying to fill positions too. So, um, we did kind of in the 75 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:05,919 budget plan for the worst case scenario showing, you know, if we, you know, 76 00:08:03,919 --> 00:08:10,240 budgeting everything, but in all likelihood if we would fill these 77 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:15,360 positions, uh, we'd be coming in under budget. Um, just cuz they would be kind 78 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:20,960 of filling in when people aren't aren't uh being staffed. And also, you know, if 79 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:25,120 people are going out on any uh Minnesota leave, you know, that 80 00:08:23,199 --> 00:08:29,840 that's mostly reimbursed through that program, too. So, 81 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:37,839 That led to one of my questions too because I see the salary and wages are 82 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:46,279 going from 667 to 836. That's 20%. >> Yeah. So, the um I was kind of looking 83 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:46,279 at that a little bit and the um 84 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:55,040 with the uh one thing that happened in the in this 85 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:59,760 year's budget is we combined regular and part-time all into regular. So, that you 86 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:07,680 know makes that look a little bit higher. And then also we uh um 87 00:09:04,959 --> 00:09:12,000 went down a little bit in on recycling. So I think factoring everything 88 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:16,080 everything in um between the two recycling and the solid waste budget you 89 00:09:13,839 --> 00:09:21,920 know we were looking at about 14% is what I had come up with. So cuz our 90 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:25,279 recycling portion had came down a little bit. 91 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:28,519 » I see that now your preliminary last year was 92 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:39,200 your 26 was 777 like that. And then also this was these 93 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:44,720 were uh you know the all the budget or the HR numbers you know with payroll and 94 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:48,640 uh benefits you know that was done earlier this summer. We've had some you 95 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:53,040 know different staff transitions as well. So that will bring those numbers 96 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:57,519 down even further. Um just where where people are currently on steps and 97 00:09:55,360 --> 00:10:01,440 grades. Uh um so I think by the time we get to the 98 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:05,279 final budget numbers, you know, we'll be really close to our budget will be 99 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:12,399 balanced once we factor all that in even with these changes. But um the uh yeah 100 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:15,760 with the budget, you know, part of this study, you know, with this 101 00:10:13,519 --> 00:10:21,120 reorganization that had some to do with that with the the grades and you know, a 102 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:24,640 lot of our people are still low on their steps, you know, so they're, you know, 103 00:10:22,959 --> 00:10:27,920 getting a step increase and a cost of living increase every year. So it 104 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:32,560 doesn't take long to add up to them increases. 105 00:10:30,079 --> 00:10:38,560 So, we lock out any changes to the budget for 106 00:10:35,839 --> 00:10:45,360 personnel once we give you guys the preliminary budget in August until after 107 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:50,480 the um the preliminary levy is set and we get our final numbers for um pay or 108 00:10:48,079 --> 00:10:54,240 for benefits. Then we'll recalculate them one more time and that's the number 109 00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:57,440 we'll use in the TNT meeting. and then we'll calculate one final time before 110 00:10:56,079 --> 00:11:03,040 that meeting in December where you approve the final bill. But the previous 111 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:07,440 practice was anytime something changed then payroll would update IFS which 112 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:11,760 means none of the reports I would give you were accurate and for budgeting 113 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:16,000 purposes we don't need real data in there. We need real data in there a 114 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:20,480 couple of times throughout the process. So as Josh is saying some of these 115 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:25,120 things have already changed. they have and they'll be they'll be adjusted twice 116 00:11:22,399 --> 00:11:29,279 more before um you'll see a final uh budget for approval. 117 00:11:27,757 --> 00:11:35,519 [snorts] >> Hey Josh, I was just looking at a line 118 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:40,160 item for equipment repair. Um it's it goes up fairly significantly. Is there a 119 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:44,959 reason? Is it because we have more equipment now that or is it because the 120 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:50,800 equipment is more specialized? It takes a certain amount of technical aspects to 121 00:11:47,839 --> 00:11:57,519 to repair Were you looking at 391? >> Um I am 122 00:11:55,200 --> 00:12:01,920 392. >> Okay. Um well both 39 391 that's I guess 123 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:06,240 I'll just start with that one I guess with the equipment repair that had a 124 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:11,279 significant jump um in the actual spent last year and then also what I'm 125 00:12:07,839 --> 00:12:16,560 budgeting for next year and 392 I don't think was quite as steep. Um, but a lot 126 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:22,880 of that is actually has to do with how we've been coding some of our um, 127 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:27,519 repairs. A lot of our uh, oil changes and regular maintenance, we used to have 128 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:31,839 that coded under 6597, which is motor, fuel, and lube, and 129 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:37,920 we've started to um, move that over into that equipment repair category. Oh, 130 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:42,959 » so if you notice like under the 391 um 6563, 131 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:49,200 no, sorry. 3 916567. 132 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:55,200 You know, we have for like 2025, for instance, we budgeted 75,000 and we only 133 00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:57,839 spent um 35,000. So, a lot of that kind of just got shifted into that other 134 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:02,240 category. >> Um but we have I mean that that 135 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:07,519 partially explains it, but we have had you know we've seen increasing repair 136 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:11,440 costs too. Um our grinder does you know impact that. we have additional repair 137 00:13:09,519 --> 00:13:15,360 costs and next year we're actually budgeting to do some work on our dozer 138 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:19,639 which is why that number is even up a little bit higher for next year. So, 139 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:30,959 um, so I guess just continuing to walk through, uh, 140 00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:34,000 kind of hit on a couple of the items here in my that I was going to bring up 141 00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:38,240 on the walking through the budget report. Um, again, which with our 142 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:44,560 special assessment, which is under the 391 5051, again, we'd be looking at 143 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:50,639 increasing that by 3%. um 144 00:13:46,079 --> 00:13:57,360 our uh fees and our out of county fees in uh plan to have um increasing that 145 00:13:53,839 --> 00:14:03,680 slightly uh due to um just increasing trends and also adjustments to the 146 00:13:59,519 --> 00:14:09,440 tipping fee. Um jumping down to our um our main part of 147 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,320 our budget, our main expenditures with our tipping fees and hauling and 148 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:19,920 loading. So that's what we end up paying to Pulk County. So that's at 62 391 6256 149 00:14:17,680 --> 00:14:24,079 and 6259. Um I did keep them relatively stable for 150 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:29,279 next year. We've been coming in a little bit under budget the last couple years. 151 00:14:26,079 --> 00:14:33,519 So um just keeping that flat. I think we can account for any increases we might 152 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:37,199 see um if we have any tipping fee increases this year. And we actually 153 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:41,040 have a advisory board meeting tomorrow where we should learn, you know, if we 154 00:14:38,959 --> 00:14:46,079 have uh if we're going to be seeing tip fee increases next year or not. But we 155 00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:50,480 should have enough room in there. Um, we kind of touched on the equipment was one 156 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:56,720 I wanted to highlight. We touched on that. Um, and then just with the 157 00:14:53,199 --> 00:15:02,320 equipment purchases, uh, you know, we have under 391 and 392, you 158 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:06,560 know, 391 the equipment purchases is a little bit down from last year. Again, 159 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:10,800 it just kind of depends on whether we're purchasing recycling or solid waste 160 00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:16,880 equipment on on where they fluctuate. So, I'll kind of touch on the equipment 161 00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:23,519 a little bit further here. Um, we uh under 391, the equipment we're 162 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:28,480 looking at for next year, uh, just we'll have some some continued container 163 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:33,440 replacements. Uh, we're due to have a forklift replaced, a backhoe replaced, 164 00:15:30,959 --> 00:15:41,440 and we're also looking at a skid steer uh, snow pusher replacement for 391. 165 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:45,600 Um, under our 392 equipment purchases, uh, again, we're looking at some 166 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:50,720 containers, uh, we're due to have one of our packer truck recycling trucks 167 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:56,240 replaced. Uh, looking at, um, pallet jack, and then also, 168 00:15:54,079 --> 00:16:01,199 uh, with the one organics grant that we received this year, we'll be purchasing 169 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:04,880 some organics equipment, um, that will get Cass County up and running for their 170 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:10,720 organics program. So, that will be outlined in the budget. Um and then also 171 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:16,240 I have outlined in my budget for equipment next year um to do some 172 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:19,680 recycling totes and a trauma screener and them two items would be grant 173 00:16:17,839 --> 00:16:24,480 dependent. So if we didn't get grant funding for those then we wouldn't be 174 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:30,399 moving forward with those projects. So, and uh they were outlined kind of if you 175 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:37,519 see in on the revenue side in their 392 budget um in 2027 we're looking at uh 176 00:16:35,199 --> 00:16:44,160 and that's under 5306 we're looking at $750,000 177 00:16:40,959 --> 00:16:48,959 for um state grants coming in. So again, that was for the $500,000 grant that we 178 00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:53,680 already just received from the state. Um, and then looking at possibly trying 179 00:16:51,199 --> 00:16:59,199 to get another $250,000 grant from the state for for this dramal and and uh 180 00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:03,920 recycling equipment. So, >> well, state grants have come down quite 181 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:07,280 a bit. >> Yeah. From last year, the last two 182 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,240 years, you know, we had, you know, kind of all these other projects we've been 183 00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:15,039 working on were all kind of bunched together in there. [snorts] So, you 184 00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:19,120 know, our reuse project, our organ big organics project that we had, you know, 185 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:24,559 they're them are, you know, have been completed or will be completed. So, 186 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:29,440 they're coming out of the budget. So, >> Josh, just curious, why did you switch 187 00:17:26,319 --> 00:17:31,760 out the organics to small containers? >> Um, so like out in front of the 188 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,640 building. >> Yeah. 189 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:40,039 » Um, just to try to keep keep it emptied more frequently. Okay. 190 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,039 » You know, keep it a little bit cleaner. 191 00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:50,160 Um, say Josh, I have a question. Um, as far as containers, like for your, um, 192 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:56,559 like the recycling, the regular garbage and whatnot, um, are we taking those or 193 00:17:54,400 --> 00:18:02,080 is your whoever your maintenance person is rebuilding the the containers at all, 194 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:06,480 the metal containers, so that we can reduce the cost of purchasing new? And I 195 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:10,720 I was looking at them the other day when I was there and it seems like it's 196 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:15,120 extremely thin metal on the skids and when you tip it, I mean there's a lot of 197 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:19,919 abrasion there. If we could start using heavier duty materials to rebuild them, 198 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:24,640 that would be great. >> Yeah. So, we uh with our recycling 199 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,720 containers, we definitely go through all winter and we're replacing floors and 200 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:32,799 replacing steel. Um, we still try to budget for, you know, a dozen or so 201 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:36,640 containers every year just to keep updating our fleet. Um, but we have 202 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:40,400 quite a few in the back that we, you know, during our slow times of the year 203 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:44,559 we're constantly repairing. Um, and yeah, for our our transfer station bins, 204 00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:48,400 uh, we've actually started to use like some of the smaller bins and they're a 205 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:52,320 lot more beefier and heavier duties. So, I think, you know, we're starting to we 206 00:18:50,559 --> 00:18:56,000 got a good kind of a good product that we're getting replace replacing some of 207 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:00,320 the older ones with now. So, >> great. Thank you. Um, 208 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:05,280 » but yeah, we do, you know, we do spend a lot uh a lot of time and going through 209 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:08,720 them bins and repairing what we can. So, >> smaller containers, you just have to 210 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:13,440 have staff empty them more frequently. So, it's going to take more staff time. 211 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:15,919 So, it I mean there's pluses and minuses to both ways of doing it, I guess. Thank 212 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:20,080 you. >> You mentioned the skid steer for pushing 213 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:24,559 snow. I mean, is there can equipment be used 214 00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:27,520 for more than one item instead of something? Is that dedicated just for 215 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:31,039 pushing snow or what? >> No, we have we have two skid steers in 216 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:34,720 our fleet. One's pretty much loading recycling, you know, loading our 217 00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:41,039 recycling up all the time. The other one we use for going out collecting bales um 218 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:43,679 as a backup and pushing snow, too. So, they get uh it's not just for pushing 219 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,480 snow, >> keeping it going year round with other 220 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:50,320 uses. Just change you I do that myself. Just change the front end and stuff like 221 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,280 that. >> Yep. 222 00:19:51,679 --> 00:19:58,880 And this would just be again for what I'm budgeting is this the snow pusher we 223 00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:05,559 have is I think probably 15 to 20 plus years old. So um just looking at getting 224 00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:05,559 that updated. So, 225 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,360 uh, let's see with the 226 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:19,360 Yeah, I guess just the other items in the 392 budget that I was just going to 227 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:23,360 highlight, you know, for the most part and, you know, didn't really have too 228 00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:29,520 terribly many big changes throughout the budgets um, from year-over-year. Uh we 229 00:20:27,679 --> 00:20:34,320 just had uh just to highlight you know we have again this organics grant under 230 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:40,799 our professional and technical services and uh our um building acquisition 231 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:45,600 construction and site site site improvements under 392 you know that's 232 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:53,039 accounting for that reuse reuse project or sorry organics project for next year. 233 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:59,120 Josh, on on a small scale here, I noticed in the 392 towards the bottom, 234 00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:03,120 you've got sales tax at $10,000 where it's been zero the last couple 235 00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:07,280 years. [sighs] >> Yeah, that's uh just with some of the 236 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:11,679 the programs that we're starting, you know, just kind of anticipating us, you 237 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:16,159 know, possibly having to get into paying sales tax on certain things. So, you 238 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:20,480 know, by the end by my final budget, we might kind of take that down as just 239 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,440 kind of a a buffer in there in case we end up needing it. So, 240 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:27,280 » So, I'm assuming you're collecting sales tax from the end user. 241 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:30,520 » Yep. >> Thank you. 242 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:42,600 » Um, going back down to our um I think it's page 11. 243 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:52,159 um on the packet. So, it's just kind of our the whole summary. Um 244 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:56,640 keep going down, I guess. Up one more page 11 there. Yep. So, 245 00:21:54,799 --> 00:22:02,480 we're looking at uh just the overall budget. You can kind of see where the 246 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:07,919 budgets have been um the last few years. again our preliminary budget uh for this 247 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:13,039 year uh looking at coming down a little bit from last year and then um we were 248 00:22:11,120 --> 00:22:17,200 having showing expenditures a little bit higher than revenues but I think as I 249 00:22:15,679 --> 00:22:22,240 mentioned I think as we get closer to final HR numbers going in there um or 250 00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:27,360 payroll numbers going in there it'll be closer to zero if not uh back to the 251 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:32,799 positive side. So then the other thing just to highlight we or a couple more 252 00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:36,960 things to highlight on that we have uh um 253 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:41,280 this will be the last year 2027 will be the last year that we'll be repaying our 254 00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:45,120 landfill um cover project um that we've been borrow borrowed from from the 255 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:50,080 general fund. So 2027 will be the last year for that. And then the bottom of 256 00:22:48,159 --> 00:22:53,280 that kind of the page there, we have our trial balance. Just kind of gives us a 257 00:22:52,159 --> 00:22:58,080 snapshot of where we're at year-over-year with with where we're at 258 00:22:55,360 --> 00:23:02,480 for reserves that we have. Um, so you can see over the last couple years, it's 259 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:08,679 been a, you know, positive trend into into uh 2026 where we're currently 260 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,679 sitting. So, 261 00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:16,240 going on the next couple slides, it's just kind of a a budget uh picture that 262 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:20,480 shows uh where our revenues are coming from. Um it hasn't changed that much uh 263 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:26,000 for the last few years. I have a couple years of data in here. You know, 42% of 264 00:23:23,919 --> 00:23:31,840 our funding comes from the residential assessment, 34 from the commercial 265 00:23:27,679 --> 00:23:39,039 assessment, about 7% from tip fees, 12% from grant funding, and then kind of 5% 266 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:43,440 makes up uh everything from the um sales miscellaneous revenue that we get in and 267 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:49,799 and a little bit of the levy that we get in to meet our score score match 268 00:23:46,159 --> 00:23:49,799 requirements. So, 269 00:23:53,360 --> 00:24:00,880 And then our uh solid waste assessment. Um going down to page 16. Again, this 270 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:04,720 just shows you the breakout and a little bit of history of where the solid waste 271 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:08,559 assessments been. Um again, for this next year, we'd be proposing a 3% 272 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:15,039 increase. So the residential assessment would go from $245 up to $252. 273 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:21,840 And the minimum commercial assessment would go from $36 up to $316 274 00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:26,520 um plus based on based on volume they generate. 275 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,520 Um 276 00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:36,080 tipping fees on the next sheet there. Uh some of these numbers will change still 277 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:40,480 continue to change and get refined um before we do our final fee schedule 278 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:43,600 review at the end of the year. But we haven't uh increased our tipping fee. We 279 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,540 didn't really increase our tipping fees much last year and we're looking at 280 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:52,960 making some adjustments to them um this [snorts] upcoming year. So, uh for the 281 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:57,679 most part, again to highlight, we are um pretty much across the board besides our 282 00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:03,880 assessment, we're kind of on par lower than um a lot of our surrounding 283 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:03,880 counties. Um, 284 00:25:05,919 --> 00:25:11,679 and we might do some additional diversion projects where we could help 285 00:25:09,919 --> 00:25:15,200 lower some of the costs that we have too. So, one of the things we're looking 286 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:20,000 at is possibly trying to recycle sheetrock and drywall, which uh we just 287 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,440 going to put that in our final tipping fee schedule where we could have a 288 00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:27,000 little reduced rate for accepting that material. So, 289 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:36,960 and then uh towards the end there, I have my capital improvement plan. Um I 290 00:25:34,159 --> 00:25:45,600 kind of walk through the equipment that we're looking for for this next year. Um 291 00:25:42,799 --> 00:25:49,679 again, couple piece of them items would be grant dependent. 292 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:55,919 And I think we're at a good place with what we're kind of budgeting annually 293 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:59,919 now um for either for moving forward uh either with purchasing equipment or 294 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:06,320 sitting that aside for reserves if we don't have equipment to purchase um each 295 00:26:02,159 --> 00:26:11,760 of those years. Um onto our building uh capital building plan. Um again we have 296 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:17,120 our um remodel for the organics transfer station on on slate for 2027. 297 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:22,080 And then, you know, I think we still need to be keep budgeting quite a bit of 298 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:28,000 money into reserves over the next several years. Um, if you notice in my 299 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:32,880 capital plan for buildings out in 2032 and 2033, that's when I kind of put in 300 00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:38,480 some of them placeholders for, you know, what's going to happen when we can't be 301 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:42,799 burying our demolition anymore um on sites. So, this doesn't assume any state 302 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:46,159 funding, but you know, it kind of outlines a path forward if we have to 303 00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:52,000 start transferring all our demolition waste and what them costs could possibly 304 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:57,600 look like. So, >> would that cost include building a 305 00:26:54,240 --> 00:27:01,679 regional landfill then? Our our share. >> This would not be a regional landfill. 306 00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:06,159 This would just be our cost if we wanted to be able to transfer material out to a 307 00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:12,480 different, you know, a facility that's not within our our regional scope. So, 308 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:16,440 » so that would be an annual cost going forward. 309 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,440 » Yep. 310 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,840 » That doesn't work. [laughter] >> Oh, that number is huge. 311 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,200 » Yeah. And then you get to the landfill. I mean, we we'll have major landfill 312 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:32,240 expenses coming up too, you know, in the next when our landfills fill up in the 313 00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:36,799 next 7 to 10 years. Uh, you know, with closure costs and and that was outlined 314 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:42,159 under my the landfill plan there. So, you know, again, this year we'll be last 315 00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:44,880 year repaying that uh 150,000 to the general funds. So, again, moving 316 00:27:43,679 --> 00:27:49,919 forward, it's going to be imperative that we're sticking money away to plan 317 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,360 for these these changes down the road. And I think where we're currently at 318 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:58,480 with our budget, um I think we'll be in a good place to to be doing that on 319 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:02,480 future years here. So, but you know, at the end of the day too 320 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:06,399 with the landfill closure, I mean, the state's been going to be pushing hard 321 00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:10,480 for closure costs to help counties coming from, you know, either 322 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:14,799 legislative action or bonding dollars. So, you know, again, it's who knows if 323 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,799 anything will get traction and go through, but, you know, there are some a 324 00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:22,480 little bit of light that we can get still get state funding for some of 325 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:28,159 these projects and and really help our long-term capital planning needs. So, 326 00:28:26,559 --> 00:28:34,960 So that would that would be my next question, John. Is it even realistic to 327 00:28:31,679 --> 00:28:40,960 have that demo facility even categorized in 2032? 328 00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:45,360 Like we have to deliver it out because it ain't going to happen. 329 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:49,960 I mean, it can't. I don't know how we would do that every year. 330 00:28:50,159 --> 00:28:56,720 » Are you looking at the building like the building plan 331 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,720 » in the capital budget then like that? 332 00:28:57,279 --> 00:29:03,360 I think just what it I think what it does it helps give us some guidelines 333 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:07,120 for when we're going out and asking for um state bonding dollars. You know, 334 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:11,120 gives us a kind of a picture of what we're looking at needing anyway. Um so 335 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:14,880 it's helpful in that regards. But you know, this is a working document. So, 336 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:19,039 you know, there's always going to be changes to it as well. But I think you 337 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:26,640 know what I showed like in the building plan um if we get to that 2020 32 2033 338 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:30,799 and we don't have any state fund state bonding dollars you know looking at 339 00:29:28,159 --> 00:29:35,159 having to to bond for you know our future infrastructure needs. So, 340 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:46,480 » we had a breakout session at last year's annual conference and uh it was Santa 341 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:50,480 County that gave a presentation and I don't remember the exact figure but 342 00:29:47,919 --> 00:29:55,760 there was a very low amount of the percentage of their waste that goes into 343 00:29:53,039 --> 00:30:01,919 landfills. You know, lot they truck off a lot to be burned. Um and you know 344 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:07,440 we're here we're forming a regional um uh disposal group. I mean is it 345 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:12,480 possible for to reach those kind of numbers with the region? 346 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:18,480 » Um well right now I mean in rough number very rough numbers about a third of our 347 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:24,240 MSW goes to the incinerator and gets uh you know to get burned to get processed 348 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:27,520 and and uh you know a lot of that just is the type of material we're taking in. 349 00:30:25,919 --> 00:30:31,039 a lot of the, you know, depends on if it's big and bulky and can go through 350 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:34,640 that that process. But we're we're shifting, you know, a fair amount of our 351 00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:38,880 waste over there. I think we can we can make improvements by getting uh we don't 352 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:43,520 really have the infrastructure right now to get burnable waste over to from our 353 00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:47,760 north transfer station. So, that's where we can um improve upon getting some of 354 00:30:45,919 --> 00:30:52,080 that over to our burnable or to the incinerator. But, you know, I think as a 355 00:30:50,399 --> 00:30:56,399 region, I think we're definitely going in the right direction with where we're 356 00:30:53,760 --> 00:31:00,559 at and where we're set up compared to um the rest of the state. And then also 357 00:30:58,159 --> 00:31:04,480 with our push for organics, you know, hopefully seeing that continue to grow 358 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:08,880 and diverting a lot of that waste from the the waist stream as well. So, 359 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:13,440 » yeah, the less you can go to the landfill, the better off we'll be in the 360 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,480 long term. And then even with our I mean even with 361 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,840 our construction and demolition material. I mean we're you know we're 362 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:25,039 pulling out shingles, we're pulling out concrete. We're starting to pull out 363 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:28,960 clean lumber um with the you know the projects that we've been coming in the 364 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:32,640 hopper with or with this grinder with the screeners. You know it's just 365 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:37,519 continuing to be able to pull out more material out of the demolition landfill 366 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:41,200 as well to um make that process easier down the road too. So, 367 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:46,000 » so the clean lumber, are you putting that at the mall where people just pick 368 00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:49,519 it up or what are you doing with it? >> Um, so like right now we're separating 369 00:31:47,679 --> 00:31:51,919 out pallets and clean lumber. So that's being turned into the colored mulch 370 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:54,480 right now. >> Oh, 371 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:58,880 » but we also do pull some out that goes up to the reuse center. Um, it's just 372 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,720 kind of a evolving process. We still got a long 373 00:32:00,559 --> 00:32:06,760 ways to go to I think there's a lot more we can pull out of there. So, 374 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:21,880 and yeah, I think that was about all I had unless you guys have any other other 375 00:32:18,399 --> 00:32:21,880 questions. So, 376 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:34,120 any questions on the assessments? 377 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:43,519 I I don't have questions on the assessments. I just do have a comment. I 378 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:51,360 really don't want them to increase if we don't have to. Um 379 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:55,600 just need to I It's tough. We knew this was going to be a tough 380 00:32:52,880 --> 00:33:00,240 year going in and probably next year is going to be another tough year. Um, so 381 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:06,159 I'm just trying to take it easy on the taxpayer is basically what my goal is. 382 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:09,600 Um, so >> someone commented to me this weekend 383 00:33:07,919 --> 00:33:15,120 that they're seeing a lot more garbage around the county. That has not been my 384 00:33:11,519 --> 00:33:19,120 experience. Has anybody else? [snorts] >> No. I I think the the one thing I see is 385 00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:23,600 people aren't securing their stuff when they're taking it to the landfill. 386 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:27,679 » Oh, more to the transfer stations. There's a lot of loose stuff laying 387 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:34,279 alongside the ditches. But you know that's just personal 388 00:33:30,159 --> 00:33:34,279 habits. You know 389 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:43,679 I guess as a policy question um with Josh this is kind of off it's off the 390 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:51,039 budget topic but anyway um our reuse center um is that open to anybody even 391 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:57,919 if they are out of county or is it just county residents only to take items? 392 00:33:55,200 --> 00:34:01,200 Um, typically we will have them, you know, try to get them signed up for our 393 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:04,960 out of county permits if we're taking items. Um, some of that is, you know, 394 00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:08,800 hard to track like the rest of our facility, but, you know, that's the 395 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:13,440 intent is that we're just taking either incount items or items that people are 396 00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:16,240 bringing that they're part of our permit programs. 397 00:34:13,919 --> 00:34:22,159 » Well, what about people removing items from the reuse center and taking them to 398 00:34:20,240 --> 00:34:25,599 say Wadina County? >> Um, it's kind of the same. I mean, if 399 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:29,200 people are coming into our facility, they should really be, 400 00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:33,599 » you know, having that out of county permit, but it's something we, you know, 401 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:37,520 we really haven't put much time into tracking or enforcing at this point. So, 402 00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:40,720 » I just heard a couple complaints from from people that 403 00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:44,159 » they know that these people live out of county and yet they're coming here and 404 00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:47,839 taking items from the reuse center. They don't know if well, they know one of 405 00:34:46,159 --> 00:34:52,079 them lives in an apartment, so they don't need a weed whip because their 406 00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:57,599 maintenance is done for them. So, you know, the fear is that they're taking 407 00:34:54,079 --> 00:35:02,240 them, selling them, and profiting off of our county taxpayers, and they they just 408 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:05,760 do not think it's fair. >> Yeah. 409 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,160 » Everything diverted through the reuse center saves us money. 410 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:13,640 » Yes. I >> taking things out of the reuse center, 411 00:35:09,599 --> 00:35:13,640 they're not costing us anything. 412 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,680 » It would be really hard to >> I [clears throat] know it would be. I'm 413 00:35:17,359 --> 00:35:21,119 just >> I mean I 414 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:25,119 » there's just some frustrations out there that 415 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:28,800 » um that are voiced occasionally. I'm just continuing to voice them. 416 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:33,599 » I did have an attendant at the North Station ask me if I was a resident when 417 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:39,254 I was dropping off some tires. I appreciated that. 418 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,274 I I did mention it was my wife's tires. [laughter] 419 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:48,400 Uh yeah, I mean we've had uh you know our out of county permits have been 420 00:35:45,839 --> 00:35:52,400 continuing to get more and more of them every year. So I think we're you know 421 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:57,359 again our system isn't isn't perfect by any means but I think we're making good 422 00:35:54,320 --> 00:36:03,760 strides on uh um capturing that out of county out of county volumes. So, and we 423 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:08,240 even did uh up at our north station this summer, we even Bel Tramy County was 424 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,359 wondering how many of their residents maybe were coming down using our 425 00:36:09,599 --> 00:36:15,040 transfer station, especially on days that their facilities are closed. So, 426 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:20,079 our guys actually went out and were doing some survey work up there and uh 427 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:23,680 so, you know, they had a handful of people that kind of turned away when 428 00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:26,880 they got questioned, but um for the most part that was good results up there, 429 00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:33,920 too. And that would be one way to do it. Just 430 00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:37,550 randomly, once or twice a year, interview everybody that comes into the 431 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,000 gate. [snorts] You get a sampling of kind of 432 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:46,000 roughly >> how big of an issue it is 433 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:49,520 » and it would slow them down, too. >> Then again, it takes staff time to do 434 00:36:47,839 --> 00:36:52,720 that. So, I mean, it's just >> do it once or twice a year. 435 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,920 » It all just kind of stacks up. >> Yeah. you on a slow day when they have 436 00:36:55,359 --> 00:37:00,680 time? >> Yeah, random and just do it randomly. 437 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:06,079 » All right. >> Anything else, Josh? 438 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:09,560 » All right. Thanks. >> All right. Thank you. 439 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,040 » Do I see us now, Jeff? >> Uh, no. 440 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,160 » Yep. >> Nope. 441 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:19,480 » We're still waiting for All right, Mike. Other staff. 442 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:29,000 Hopefully Mike has good news. [laughter] >> Right. 443 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,901 » You got the same news at the end of the legislative session. 444 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:35,901 » Yeah. [clears throat] 445 00:37:36,720 --> 00:37:39,880 » Good morning. 446 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:49,839 » No formal PowerPoint or anything this year. Um 447 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:56,560 what we have in front [clears throat] of us is just a is our proposed 2027 448 00:37:53,119 --> 00:38:01,599 budget. Um coupled with the last few years actuals. Um 449 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:08,320 just want to point out a few things and this would rather just um go question 450 00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:12,960 answer. We do have um significant revenue 451 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:18,240 loss on one on a partic one of our lines. It's not a loss. What it is is 452 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:23,680 it's with our MA recoveries. Um because we didn't have that position for a 453 00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:30,640 significant amount of time, we got it, I believe, late in 23 or halfway through 454 00:38:25,599 --> 00:38:35,520 23. Um there was a huge backlog of monies um tied to MA recoveries and 455 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:43,200 estate recoveries um that we were able to go after and um acquire through that 456 00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:49,520 process um which led to um some significant ballooning on those 457 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:55,119 revenues. Um now that we are essentially caught up on that backlog, um what we 458 00:38:53,200 --> 00:39:05,599 have to represent now is what we propose we can continue moving forward. Um which 459 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:11,920 when compared to you compare 27 to um 25 and 24 actuals, it it is um about a half 460 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:15,240 a million dollar change in revenue. 461 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:31,359 I'd also like to point out um in our adult services system we have um 462 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:36,720 conservatively put in our numbers. Um I think they're they're fairly accurate as 463 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:41,440 far as our our revenue gain on our waiver programming. um we will have a 464 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:48,160 little better picture of that following third quarter which we should have 465 00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:55,320 um late November or early December um to have it updated before the end of the 466 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,320 year but um that's with our 467 00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:03,440 um caddy CAC uh and developmental 468 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:10,720 disability waiverss uh as well as our EW. So those are tough those are tough 469 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:16,000 to estimate moving out um because the the billing cycles are be are behind and 470 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:22,960 um at the beginning of this year with the changes they made 471 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:26,960 our our all our claiming was going in and revenue wasn't coming in for so it's 472 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:32,480 kind of it kind of got backlog at this state which did um make me nervous there 473 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:37,200 for a while but it is starting to catch up but um so I'm hoping that'll kind of 474 00:40:35,359 --> 00:40:41,680 iron it itself out. And it had to do with um them changing rates on what 475 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:46,880 services cost and they weren't prepared for the first of the year. Um so 476 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:53,400 counties were implementing service uh and then unable to receive money back 477 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,400 for it. So 478 00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:07,040 » Josh, can you explain to Josh, sorry, Mike, can you explain um 479 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:12,480 so what we passed to Prime West for the training? 480 00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:16,720 » Will you help me understand how that's going to be implemented in Hover County 481 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:22,160 and do you think that that will result in a lot of changes? looking at Mer 482 00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:25,119 County it was significant >> um 483 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:32,160 » lot of home placements right >> yeah so the safe generations program 484 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:38,560 that is being proposed uh for the member counties of prime west 485 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:44,400 is in an attempt to um one follow through with the um mandates out of the 486 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:50,960 MAFPA legislation um which in that legislation their their 487 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:55,440 goal goal is to um making sure that we lower or that we're reviewing with um a 488 00:41:53,920 --> 00:42:02,880 little more scrutiny on out of home placements. um these member counties um 489 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:08,880 MER County being the the pilot or the pioneer of this particular program um is 490 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:12,560 offering training um so that we can kind of get on board 491 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:17,440 one follow those mandates through the MAP legislation and then at the same 492 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:22,720 time kind of lower those costs um through their presentation which is all 493 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:28,079 I've had um it looks like it's a proven program I 494 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:33,280 mean at least for one county. Um it does look like they have 495 00:42:30,319 --> 00:42:37,040 more of a collaborative setup in their county. Um which we we would have to 496 00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:41,760 work towards um as far as getting law enforcement involved. Um maybe change 497 00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:49,599 some changing within our screening and screening teams, but um I think we can 498 00:42:45,839 --> 00:42:55,359 we can get there. Um our auto placements by number I believe have been going 499 00:42:51,280 --> 00:43:04,240 down. um that doesn't always mean the cost is going down. Um [clears throat] 500 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:11,520 one one placement that is requiring 2 to one staffing uh for a kid or unable to 501 00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:17,040 find a um placement within your own state can balloon that number 502 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:21,280 significantly unfortunately. But as far as doing a better job in the auto health 503 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:26,400 placements and making sure that we are only doing what's necessary, I think it 504 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:31,920 does work. Um there is a training coming up. Um and we will have our entire um 505 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:37,920 children's services attending that training here in October. 506 00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:39,760 » So it's many hours over several months. Correct. 507 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,960 » The training. >> Uhhuh. 508 00:43:40,319 --> 00:43:46,000 » I believe so. Um, thus far all I got, uh, I believe it was last week, maybe 509 00:43:44,319 --> 00:43:51,119 the week before was kind of the save the date. We have more information coming. 510 00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:55,839 » So, the one thing I remember is, um, from the presentation, 511 00:43:53,680 --> 00:44:01,839 law enforcement was somehow involved and there was a list created. And so, 512 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:05,920 um, if there was an emergency with a child, 513 00:44:03,599 --> 00:44:10,480 um, if I'm understanding this correctly, a solution 514 00:44:08,319 --> 00:44:14,720 was found quickly because of the collaboration is, and do we currently 515 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:19,440 not do that? Is this would that be something new for us? 516 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:23,280 » It would be a change, I believe, for us. We we do collaborate with law 517 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:27,440 enforcement. Um, I believe what MER has is law enforcement actually in their 518 00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:34,160 screening team every day. >> Oh, okay. I wondered about that. Okay. 519 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:36,319 » So, I believe Itaska has that similar model. 520 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:41,839 » Okay. >> So, I'm just looking at the big picture 521 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:47,040 right now to stimulate some more discussion, but 522 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:53,920 our expenditures have gone up basically since 2023 from 9 a.5 million to 12 523 00:44:50,560 --> 00:45:00,400 million. Our revenues have stayed relatively flat 524 00:44:56,240 --> 00:45:07,359 » between that time, but our levy total county cost is the requested levy 525 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:12,800 is going from 2.7 million to 7 million. >> Correct. 526 00:45:09,599 --> 00:45:16,079 » I I I don't know how we do this. Well, if we could look at more 527 00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:22,640 historical data, I think you'd show in 2016 that the levy used to be in three 528 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:26,800 at the $3 million mark and it was cut for about four or five years in a row 529 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:32,800 and then it stayed stagnant for two years and then the request to increase 530 00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:38,160 it started in 2024. So, there was an 8-year gap where it did not keep up 531 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,520 » likely because the fund balance was high. 532 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:48,800 » That's why it was cut. Now our our fund balance is hovering at the red. 533 00:45:45,359 --> 00:45:54,400 » So I get your point, but my point is is the growth the growth of social services 534 00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:58,640 is is crazy. >> Yeah. 535 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:05,400 » And I don't know that we're any better off for it. 536 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:05,400 Seems seems like we're not. 537 00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:12,160 So I don't know. I don't know how we do it. I don't know how we do a $2 million 538 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:16,800 levy increase, period. I mean, that's what is that almost 30%. 539 00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:18,240 » 40 >> 40 540 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,400 » 40. >> That's like whoa. Mix that with public 541 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:26,720 safety. The way that's gone up the last couple I I just don't know how we do 542 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:31,920 this. >> It's not possible. 543 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:37,200 Something's going to break. I mean, the state's not increasing 544 00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:39,200 hardly anything on on what they're getting and also federal. 545 00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:45,920 » No. >> Why is the county having to increase so 546 00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:52,720 much? I mean, are the programs all um required that we're doing everything? 547 00:46:50,079 --> 00:46:58,079 All programs in in our office right now are required mandated except for one 548 00:46:55,359 --> 00:47:03,200 service that we operate. Um, and that's with our family- based um, social worker 549 00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:07,200 program, which I would not recommend getting rid of. 550 00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:13,200 It it it adds such a bridge to the children's 551 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:18,160 services programming um, that if we rid of that and then contracted it out or 552 00:47:16,079 --> 00:47:23,440 tried to eat the cost with just the workers we have, we would we would go 553 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:28,880 backwards. They're a lower paying position anyways. 554 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:35,119 Um, not that that's but you're not cost savings isn't there to what potentially 555 00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:40,400 the cost would be of adding hours or overtime to the social workers. 556 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:46,480 » I know when I was with Mahubby a number of times I heard Liz talk about she'd 557 00:47:43,839 --> 00:47:50,480 hold up her hands and start out, you know, where they start with the programs 558 00:47:48,319 --> 00:47:55,680 and then at very end is getting them off the the programs. I mean, are we trying 559 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:58,880 to get them off programs? I 560 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:04,160 it depends where you on what your reference is. If it's in adult services, 561 00:48:01,839 --> 00:48:08,319 typically not. There's no there's no ending. I mean, you qualify for a 562 00:48:06,319 --> 00:48:13,920 service based on a disability or a developmental delay. Um 563 00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:20,240 we're not going to change that. Um so numbers grow and the only way to um 564 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:24,800 decrease is when folks move or they pass away. We're not going to we're not going 565 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:31,440 to service somebody back to mental health capacity. We're not can't service 566 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:36,480 someone back into um gaining um a different developmental um achievement 567 00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:39,760 levels. But what we can do is put services around them so that they can 568 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:46,720 live a life similar to everyone else. 569 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:51,359 We've increased our um assessments over the last uh 10 years as well in Hubard 570 00:48:49,359 --> 00:48:55,680 County through our min choices program which is o which does open up services 571 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:59,280 to more people but they're all eligible based on the the rules and regulations 572 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:03,119 that exist. >> Is there a large percentage of people 573 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:09,119 who have moved into the area then immediately go on to public assistance? 574 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:13,760 » No, I don't believe we've had any increase in our population. 575 00:49:11,359 --> 00:49:19,839 increase in services um and our highest number is with our elderly. 576 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:23,280 » So there's two basic things commissioner. I mean one of your 577 00:49:21,599 --> 00:49:26,640 questions I think is related to cash assistance. People are on cash 578 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:31,760 assistance for very short periods of time. People are on programs who are in 579 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:36,079 nursing homes or in mental health situations for long periods of time. 580 00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:40,800 That's our elderly population for the most part aside from some of the the 581 00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:45,520 children stuff. um that we know when we have auto home placements get to be 582 00:49:42,559 --> 00:49:51,520 expensive. Um nobody's getting a paycheck from Hubard 583 00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:56,160 County Social Services. Um cash cash programs are rent assistance. They're 584 00:49:54,480 --> 00:50:00,559 gas assistance. There are things that help people bridge a gap so that they 585 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:04,240 can continue to work at a job that they have or stay in a place that they have 586 00:50:02,079 --> 00:50:08,720 to avoid them needing long-term services. And those short-term services 587 00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:14,720 are weeks, 30 days, very short periods of 588 00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:21,119 time intervals. People are moved off of those because they're only um short-term 589 00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:24,800 programs. The long-term programs are primarily our elderly population in 590 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:28,559 Hubard County. Having a higher percentage of elderly than just about 591 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:34,480 any county in the state means we're going to have higher services. Um 592 00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:37,440 there's there are other I can give other context and I don't like it any more 593 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:42,319 than you that we have to we have to be looking at a levy like this but this is 594 00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:50,119 the that's how the math works out relative to the programs we have to 595 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:50,119 support. Um, when I look at 596 00:50:51,359 --> 00:51:04,640 $10 billion worth of county um, uh, budgets across the state, 597 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:10,319 43% comes from property taxes. 32% goes to human service expenses. 598 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:17,040 And when I look at Harvard County, 37% of our of our budget comes from 599 00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:21,760 levy. So le less than the average county and only 23% 600 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:26,480 of our budget is going to human services. Um 601 00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:32,400 honestly the numbers are catching up with us. Uh like like other counties 602 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:39,599 have been paying those kinds of rates. where we're high is um 603 00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:45,599 honestly in our I mean I hate to say it in our in our highway department 604 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:50,800 typically uh transit is about 10% of a budget 605 00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:54,480 um statewide for counties and it's 20% of our budget 606 00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:58,480 but that's reflected in the fact that people always comment on how good a 607 00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:03,280 roads we have and how incremental that has been. 608 00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:08,880 If we looked at and it and you can you can't change the past, right? But if 609 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:15,599 from 20 instead of decreases from 2017 to 2022, if we'd have stayed at 3%. 610 00:52:13,599 --> 00:52:18,880 Just a marginal increase like we did with highway department. We would have 611 00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,960 collected $6 million more and we'd still only be at 3% and the levy request this 612 00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:28,000 year would be about 5 a.5 million because we'd be able to use some of that 613 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:34,240 builtup fund balance. I understand why those things happen from 2017 to 2022, 614 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:39,359 but we went just a little bit too far. Um, April this year, we were 615 00:52:37,599 --> 00:52:45,720 writing checks we couldn't cash. >> We had two months in a row where our 616 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:45,720 operating budget was in the red. Yes. 617 00:52:45,839 --> 00:52:53,839 » So Tom, I agree that Muhammad is very proactive at trying to change people's 618 00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:59,040 lives. And I think part of this picture and the frustration, Dave, is that state 619 00:52:56,559 --> 00:53:02,960 and federally, they're not that's not part of the 620 00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:06,960 equation. And Liz will be the first to tell you, I 621 00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:11,680 mean, this is intensive. To change somebody's life, it takes four to five 622 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:17,119 years. And and I I don't know what to do with 623 00:53:14,319 --> 00:53:21,200 this either. My problem my problem with the whole big picture thing it's not 624 00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:24,480 it's not Harvard County per se it's not our social service it's it's the big 625 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:28,240 picture thing is >> at what po at what point in time do you 626 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:32,319 push back against this stuff because if you don't push back it doesn't change 627 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:36,079 the same old same old that the definition of insanity is doing the same 628 00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:39,200 thing over and over again expecting different results well if the state's 629 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:42,960 going to keep acting like they are and the counties just say okay I guess we 630 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:49,680 just have to raise our levy and do it nothing is going to change 631 00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:54,880 zippon and the rate of growth that's going on here. It'll swallow us up 632 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:59,040 before the next decade if it grows keeps growing like this. This this just cannot 633 00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:03,680 happen. And somebody needs to wake the hell up. 634 00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:09,839 And we know where it is. It's it's St. Paul. But if you can't get them to move, 635 00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:14,640 you kind of got to push back somehow. And I I I don't know what the right 636 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:20,240 answer to that is, but um we have to solve our problems. The pro the problems 637 00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:24,079 we were dealt with from St. Paul and the federal government, we are now forced to 638 00:54:22,079 --> 00:54:27,280 deal with and our taxpayers are going to have to deal with it in one way or 639 00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:32,480 another. And we have to figure out how to best make that work. 640 00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:38,079 We got to be better. We got to be better than St. Paul. 641 00:54:35,359 --> 00:54:42,640 Otherwise, it's going to hurt our entire community. 642 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:46,079 because people can't afford this and it it just it's been going like this 643 00:54:44,319 --> 00:54:50,160 for three, four years now. This is insane 644 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:56,400 basically ever since co I mean it's just like here we go. At some point we got to 645 00:54:52,880 --> 00:55:01,359 turn the ship around. I'm not sure how to do it. I'm not an 646 00:54:58,559 --> 00:55:04,640 expert in your department. So I don't know 647 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:10,480 how to do it. But the first things I would look at is can you reorganize? Can 648 00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:15,520 you do get by with less? We have to figure something out. We 649 00:55:12,559 --> 00:55:17,599 cannot just keep raising the levy. >> The challenge is 650 00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:23,359 » we have to do something different. >> Every FTE you eliminate or think about 651 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:28,640 cutting that's providing services is also bringing in revenue. So every time 652 00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:32,880 you take 50,000 off of your cost, you're taking $40,000 off your revenue and 653 00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:37,760 you're making the imbalance. still gaining ground, 654 00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:42,800 » but you're not really. And and >> and when we get to the point of error 655 00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:47,200 rates and not making um not meeting requirements for case loads, etc., then 656 00:55:45,359 --> 00:55:52,400 our reimbursements go down even more and you start losing money. The the the 657 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:57,839 biggest challenge is the thing that was has been easy to cut for the last 30 658 00:55:54,559 --> 00:56:02,640 years, public health. Public health is optional in the state of Minnesota. So 659 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:09,359 spending has gone down and every dollar spent in public health puts back5 to $25 660 00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:14,640 back in returns. Those are the programs that that catch people before they fall 661 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:20,160 off the cliff and require those programs and the fact that Harvard County um like 662 00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:23,359 many other counties outsources that right and we just take the grant pass 663 00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:27,920 through money and we don't we don't put anything into public health. So that 664 00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:30,880 that amount of money spent in the community, the amount of money for 665 00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:35,119 that's available from a hubby and others to to do those things and and intercede 666 00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:39,839 on people who are going to need assistance. 667 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:45,119 We've not spent we could spend our money on that and in the long term have to 668 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:51,200 spend less money on long-term programs. Um but the way the way that that's gone, 669 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:55,520 we're we're not doing that. with what you just you just said there 670 00:56:53,119 --> 00:56:58,559 in looking at the numbers here that you got on the screen right in front of me. 671 00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:03,200 You see those state and federal reimbursement levels, they haven't 672 00:57:01,119 --> 00:57:09,760 changed with the additional people that we've added since 20 uh 2023. They 673 00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:15,119 haven't changed much at all. So, I mean, our Zit employee who who can bring in 674 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:19,680 revenue doesn't look like it's happening. Those are actually going down 675 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:22,720 as a result of the 2025 federal legislation and the state cost shares. 676 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,000 Our estimates are that we're not going to pay that. We're going to see a 677 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:34,359 reduction in the revenues we get passed through to us for that work. 678 00:57:29,839 --> 00:57:34,359 » Even in previous years prior to 2027, 679 00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:42,960 » those overall numbers, Tom, that you're looking at on that page are made up of 680 00:57:39,839 --> 00:57:49,520 several lines. Um that's just the total between all the 681 00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:51,839 revenue lines for a state. Um which we can 682 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,520 » Nancy >> bring a different day or show you what 683 00:57:53,359 --> 00:58:00,640 they all are. Um but it's potent. There is some that probably went down, some 684 00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:05,599 that don't do go up. I think where you're probably more along 685 00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:09,200 what your first question was whenever you're 686 00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:13,680 talking about state and federal revenues is when you're talking adult services, 687 00:58:11,119 --> 00:58:20,960 you haven't se seen a increase in what a case manager can earn since 2014. 688 00:58:18,319 --> 00:58:26,640 So that that dollar amount they can bring in is the 689 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:31,920 same. So, if they're bringing in $100 an an hour as a case manager in 2014 and 690 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:37,359 we're spending it at today's price in 2026, it ain't the same. I 691 00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:42,640 » I can remember uh I don't know how many positions, but there probably a few that 692 00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:48,319 were added over the number of years that I've been here and it was based on a 693 00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:52,160 grant with an expiration date. Are have those have you keeping track of when 694 00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:58,400 those expiration dates for grants come? And is that employee still with the 695 00:58:54,640 --> 00:59:02,160 county after an expiration or the expiration of a grant? 696 00:59:01,359 --> 00:59:04,400 » I don't know that >> I'm not aware of any positions that were 697 00:59:03,839 --> 00:59:06,400 grant fun. >> That's law enforcement more specifically 698 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:10,640 than >> I can think of one position in adult 699 00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:14,640 services that was supplemented by Prime West for a period of time. I do not 700 00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:16,559 recall that it was set up with a sunset date though. 701 00:59:15,359 --> 00:59:23,119 » Okay. And part of the reason um that position 702 00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:27,440 was added was out of the at that time it was 13 counties and we had a much higher 703 00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:34,440 case load than any other county and we were behind in getting 704 00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:34,440 the data needed to prime west. 705 00:59:34,559 --> 00:59:44,240 So so here's an example and Mike please understand we're not frustrated with you 706 00:59:41,599 --> 00:59:49,839 we're just frustrated. Um, so when I go to AMC 707 00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:55,200 and I get frustrated because the answer is always we have to ask for more money. 708 00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:59,760 We have to ask for more money. But this was an example given in one of the other 709 00:59:57,359 --> 01:00:04,799 counties. They had a child was either 12 or 13 and was extremely violent and 710 01:00:03,119 --> 01:00:09,040 there wasn't anywhere to put him. in that particular county, I don't even 711 01:00:06,799 --> 01:00:15,359 remember which county it was, but they had two social workers and the and the 712 01:00:12,559 --> 01:00:20,319 child was literally on the floor in the social work department. And one of the 713 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:25,359 things that aggravated the child greatly was his phone, 714 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:30,640 but they could not take the phone away from him even though they knew that his 715 01:00:28,079 --> 01:00:38,079 behavior would greatly improve because the parent would not sign off. 716 01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:42,559 And so we are frustrated but part of it is this big picture that we don't have 717 01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:48,640 any control over. And so Dave when you say we have to do something and I'm 718 01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:53,280 thinking if we don't do it this if I understand it correctly the state will 719 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:58,079 come in and do it and then bill us. I don't know what the answer is unless all 720 01:00:54,880 --> 01:01:00,960 87 counties get together and just say we're not going to do this. So, you're 721 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:06,640 going to get to the point then where social services and highway or uh public 722 01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:10,319 safety are driving the entire budget and other departments, you're going to have 723 01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:14,319 to cut services in other departments. >> Is that right? 724 01:01:11,599 --> 01:01:19,200 » No, it's not right. But I I'm just saying the the way it it's my 725 01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:23,359 understanding the way it's set up, >> they're they're handing us unfunded 726 01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:26,240 mandates and if we don't do them, they're going to come in and do them for 727 01:01:24,799 --> 01:01:30,559 us and then bill us. >> My whole point behind the whole thing is 728 01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:34,079 all the counties. Nobody's screaming loud enough about it. 729 01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:36,799 » So the con but the solution is for all the counties to get together 730 01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:41,680 » because we could solve this problem tomorrow if you could control your own 731 01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:46,000 programs on how you did them. This would not be that hard to fix. You could do it 732 01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:49,280 the way you saw fit to serve our residents best instead of being told 733 01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:53,000 what to do all the time. This would not be that hard to fix. 734 01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:59,119 » I just have a couple of questions about on the revenue end there. These are 735 01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:06,000 minor changes, but I mean there's $20,000. I think it's in chemical 736 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:12,079 dependency. Um, rule 25, not rule 25 assessments, CD consolidated fund admin. 737 01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:20,960 I mean, in the past few years, it's been 26,000, 24,000, 15,000, and 27 it's 738 01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:25,680 estimated is $50. And that's a to me that jumps out right away that hey, did 739 01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:31,760 a program change? Is there a funding source that dropped away? Um, or is 740 01:02:28,799 --> 01:02:36,240 there a program that has been eliminated that we used to use to gain some 741 01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:43,040 revenue? And then I think that happens in mental health as well. Uh, children's 742 01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:48,960 mental health services. There's a zero when it was 15,000, 10,000, 8,000. 743 01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,079 Um, >> arrestment grant. 744 01:02:50,240 --> 01:02:54,960 » Yeah. Yeah. I'm just kind of wondering did something 745 01:02:53,440 --> 01:03:00,319 change at the federal or state level that's impacting our revenues 746 01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:04,799 um in a negative way? >> I mean I in a in the big picture it's 747 01:03:02,559 --> 01:03:08,799 not much money but you know in the total budget but 748 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:13,760 » y >> so that that children's respit grant we 749 01:03:11,359 --> 01:03:16,799 did not receive that or we will not receive that for 27. 750 01:03:15,280 --> 01:03:21,839 » Okay. Um, and the chemical dependency fund 751 01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:27,480 admin is 752 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:27,480 » right here. 753 01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:38,000 » Case manager. >> Well, it's 754 01:03:36,319 --> 01:03:40,960 » I know it's hard for you to know all the ins and outs of these programs because 755 01:03:39,839 --> 01:03:44,319 they're vast. >> It's just 756 01:03:41,839 --> 01:03:46,640 » complicated. Yeah, sure not. Is that just because 757 01:03:44,799 --> 01:03:50,880 » I'm guessing because I it's a guess without having it in front of me is we 758 01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:54,000 no longer offer um we don't do assessments and case management work out 759 01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,319 of our office. >> Okay. All right. 760 01:03:54,799 --> 01:04:01,559 » So all that's done and handled through the community. So we just refer out 761 01:03:58,079 --> 01:04:01,559 » Okay. All right. 762 01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:09,440 And I'm just trying to pick up revenue wherever we can because we need help. So 763 01:04:07,359 --> 01:04:13,200 if there's something that we overlooked or or what have you that 764 01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:19,440 » and the challenge is with a with a fund balance that's running on empty is we 765 01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:22,559 have to be conservative and overestimate expenditures just a little bit and 766 01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:26,480 underestimate [snorts] revenues a little bit. Um because if we get to the point 767 01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:29,200 where we don't have fund balance, we're writing checks out of the general fund 768 01:04:27,760 --> 01:04:36,079 to cover it. Um 769 01:04:31,039 --> 01:04:41,520 but I would like to to point out um I took over in midocctober of last year. 770 01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:47,119 Um shortly after that or right around that same time we did uh implement uh in 771 01:04:45,039 --> 01:04:55,200 the social service parts of children and adult services a policy regarding case 772 01:04:50,319 --> 01:05:02,000 noting. Um it it is in our region, northern region, I would consider it one 773 01:04:57,599 --> 01:05:06,319 of the um tougher, more more pressured um policies as far as time entry and 774 01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:11,039 amount of time that needs to be put in per month. And then it is it is followed 775 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:16,960 through and monitored um not by the supervisors but actually by myself. I 776 01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:22,240 monitor that every month with NY's help. um 777 01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:28,079 that I think in time will make some change. We made it late in in 25 and 778 01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:31,280 it's been um implemented through 26. So there were some growing pains in that 779 01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:38,240 first quarter and probably somewhere into the second quarter, but it is on um 780 01:05:35,039 --> 01:05:42,079 it's going well and um I think I mean everyone's adhering to it the best they 781 01:05:39,839 --> 01:05:48,319 can. So with that is the increased notes which means we have um more 782 01:05:46,079 --> 01:05:53,039 claims that we can make. That doesn't mean they're all payable, but it is it's 783 01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:59,359 notes are going in so that they can make it to finance so that we can process 784 01:05:55,280 --> 01:06:03,280 that down to the state. Um also, um with the 785 01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:08,559 changes that we made late last year with some staffing to um repurpose some 786 01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:14,720 positions, um in an effort to just kind of rebalance, 787 01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:23,200 we did see um our targeted case management numbers um which began in 788 01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:26,960 August of 26 um all increase. Um I don't have the I don't have a full 789 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:30,799 understanding of how they calculate that number but it is based on number of 790 01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:35,760 worker per cases and am the amount of work they can perform. Um, so they have 791 01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:41,839 a a happy zone and I I think we're approaching that where we've seen um in 792 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:49,520 our child welfare TCM uh we had an increase from 26 to the 27 budget uh by 793 01:06:46,319 --> 01:06:56,319 30%. In our children's mental health TCM it increased almost 14%. 794 01:06:52,480 --> 01:07:03,359 And our VAD and adult mental health uh rates went up 21%. 795 01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:07,920 So I do I can I strongly um strongly feel that that is due to that change. So 796 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:13,920 I know there was some concern and confusion that maybe that move wasn't 797 01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:18,079 what we needed to do or maybe didn't work. Um and when I look at these 798 01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:23,280 numbers that's a direct reflection of those changes. 799 01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:29,839 » Um I don't know the ins and outs of the system. Uh but uh 800 01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:37,119 the move to the front desk staff to the case aid 801 01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:41,680 position instead of being so to say receptionist office support. 802 01:07:39,039 --> 01:07:45,680 » Um are those hours billable when they do the case aid work then 803 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:49,599 » for for the two? >> Yeah. 804 01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:54,240 » Up there. Um they're not right. We left them off. So they're 805 01:07:52,400 --> 01:08:00,240 still under admin. >> Oh, okay. All right. 806 01:07:57,839 --> 01:08:02,799 » What it did is open up what they can do and how they can assist. 807 01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:07,119 » Mhm. Okay. >> But it is not a monetary gain. 808 01:08:05,599 --> 01:08:10,319 » Okay. All right. That was that was my question because if they could be 809 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,839 utilized to do some case aid work that would increase billable hours, we'd just 810 01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:19,920 be able to capture a little bit of revenue anyway off of it. 811 01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:26,000 » Okay. Thank you. like the dysfunctional um system that your staff has to 812 01:08:22,719 --> 01:08:33,960 implement things on. If that was actually up and working efficiently, 813 01:08:29,199 --> 01:08:33,960 would that increase staff time by 25%. 814 01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:44,960 » I don't know the percentage of the what the required work is going to add. I do 815 01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:52,080 feel it's going to add some um if we can get it organized and structured so that 816 01:08:48,239 --> 01:08:57,120 it fits what we need. I think we can 817 01:08:54,880 --> 01:09:01,679 minimize that that percentage or that number, but it is going to increase 818 01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:06,640 because we they're telling us we do have to follow through with a little more 819 01:09:04,560 --> 01:09:12,640 scrutiny, a little more extra work, a little digging behind the scenes, more 820 01:09:08,480 --> 01:09:15,359 screening on um this um so it will increase. 821 01:09:13,440 --> 01:09:21,679 » And you know what? I didn't I didn't phrase my question correctly. So if if 822 01:09:18,719 --> 01:09:26,239 the system was up and running so it it doesn't crash or you don't have to enter 823 01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:31,679 it in multiple what I meant how much time is wasted because of the states 824 01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:35,600 amount of working >> yeah because that's a factor also 825 01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:41,679 » and that's more in reference to income maintenance um but speaking all programs 826 01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:47,239 computers in general on any given week we have manh hours 827 01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:47,239 that are 828 01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:54,239 sedendary. I mean, we're sitting there waiting for something to load or um a 829 01:09:51,839 --> 01:09:58,159 network cut or um >> or having to reput it in. 830 01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:02,880 » Yep. Or duplication of entry. >> Yeah. 831 01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:06,960 » Um so there is there is some time there. Um I wouldn't know how to project it as 832 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:11,120 to percentage or hours, but there certainly is. I mean, even on an 833 01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:16,239 administrative side, there's times where I I want to get in and log into a 834 01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:20,159 program and I'm waiting for a spinning wheel to load. Um, 835 01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,679 so >> because even though there was money 836 01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:27,760 allocated, there isn't even a date to start. 837 01:10:25,679 --> 01:10:31,679 » No, there's no plan relative to the problem we're facing here too, I don't 838 01:10:29,280 --> 01:10:39,040 think it would even make a dent. The um probably the biggest challenge is 839 01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:44,560 the number of employees the state employs in all of these divisions. None 840 01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:49,120 of whom provide direct services. >> None of whom provide direct services. 841 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:54,960 They are hired to oversee and watch and count the 842 01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:59,360 tallies and the beans and report and document 843 01:10:57,199 --> 01:11:03,040 all the legislative. Every time we have someone come in and say you got to watch 844 01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:06,880 this, you got to do this twice a year instead of once a year. You got to check 845 01:11:04,719 --> 01:11:15,120 this all these eligibility, all the requirements into this old system. 846 01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:21,440 If our if our numbers have gone up from 54 to to 70 in human services in in 847 01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:25,520 eight nine years, theirs have tripled. The number of 848 01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:29,120 employees the state employs is double or triple what it was in the same amount of 849 01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:36,400 time. and they're not providing any direct service. 850 01:11:31,679 --> 01:11:39,360 That's how last year 25 I think um the human service budget exceeded the 851 01:11:38,000 --> 01:11:42,960 education budget >> in the state of Minnesota for the first 852 01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:47,600 time because we're paying for things that aren't provi that are not 853 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:51,520 translating into services that are helping people. and Prime West 854 01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:54,960 will tell you that they're not reading the reports they're asking for because 855 01:11:53,199 --> 01:11:58,320 they'll come back and ask the very same thing and Prime West will say, "Well, we 856 01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:02,000 already sent that to you the last quarter." 857 01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:05,840 » If there's if there's an opportunity for reform, it's the it's in the way the 858 01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:11,199 state is restructured so that more of those dollars that are are available 859 01:12:08,719 --> 01:12:17,920 become available to provide services. But to Dave's point, 860 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:23,280 » counties cannot con sustain this. >> And you're 100% right. The bulk of the 861 01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:26,159 problem is is at the state level. So the bigger question is how are the counties 862 01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:30,400 going to react to it and how are they going to force change 863 01:12:28,480 --> 01:12:34,560 because it can't keep going like this. And I just want to summarize this for 864 01:12:32,159 --> 01:12:40,400 the public so the public understands exactly what we're dealing with. We're 865 01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:46,640 asking for a 40% local levy increase. Total revenues are down approximately 866 01:12:42,480 --> 01:12:50,400 $750,000 due to the cost shifts. Expenses are going to be up 867 01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:57,040 approximately $750,000 due to mandates that come and and other 868 01:12:54,239 --> 01:13:01,840 factors like our payroll and yeah, negotiations and all that. 869 01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:05,520 » So that's one and a half million plus. Then we're trying to shore up our fund 870 01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:12,320 balance. So, we're we're trying to shore up the fund balance by another $460,000. 871 01:13:09,679 --> 01:13:19,920 So, of this roughly $2 million levy increase, how much of the expense is an 872 01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:22,400 added FTE for 27? We adding any FTEEs and how much? 873 01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:25,679 » One one budgeted >> one FTE at 135 874 01:13:24,159 --> 01:13:29,280 » 135,000 >> and then uh 875 01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:35,120 » which is a which will go into um children's 876 01:13:32,159 --> 01:13:43,120 services to help structure and lead um through the new um 877 01:13:39,199 --> 01:13:49,600 MAFPA. So for this year only or this coming year it is offset by 100,000 878 01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:53,679 » and the other the other hidden thing here is this gets worse in 28. 879 01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:58,400 » Yeah, it does. >> This is just the beginning. This gets 880 01:13:55,840 --> 01:14:04,239 worse in 28. It could be just as bad if not worse next year when we budget this. 881 01:14:01,199 --> 01:14:08,960 So the question I would have it, can we reorganize in every any way and save 882 01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:13,920 that FTE? That's the homework I would give you 883 01:14:11,360 --> 01:14:18,400 over the next next few weeks. Can we reduce services to a bare minimum? Can 884 01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:24,000 you identify what though what that would look like and how it would look? And 885 01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:28,000 » because unless you actually unless we actually do the exercise, we don't know. 886 01:14:26,159 --> 01:14:32,560 You have to we have to unfortunately do the exercise to see if there's anything 887 01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:38,000 there. There may be, there may not be. Um, but I think we need to do the 888 01:14:34,480 --> 01:14:43,120 exercise. And I don't think we can handle more than a 750 to a million 889 01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:46,320 dollar levy increase here this year because we're going to get hit again 890 01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:52,320 next year and it's just going to get ugly in a real big hurry if we don't do 891 01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:55,520 something to try and control it. Now, >> we can certainly go through that 892 01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:59,600 exercise. We've talked about it on our supervisor meetings. We do meet twice a 893 01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:06,280 month. Um, and it is a topic we bring up. Do we have the right people in the 894 01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:06,280 arena out in the right spots? 895 01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:10,760 I would 896 01:15:10,960 --> 01:15:18,239 strongly think about if we don't promote that $2 897 01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:24,239 million increase and our 898 01:15:20,640 --> 01:15:30,239 actual ends up 700 to a million over budget like it has 899 01:15:27,440 --> 01:15:32,239 the previous three years. We'll be in more trouble then. 900 01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,920 » Yeah. >> Because the checks will still have to be 901 01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:40,000 written. That go that goes to that next question. 902 01:15:37,600 --> 01:15:46,159 What is the bare minimum, you know, that we would have to do to meet the all the 903 01:15:42,800 --> 01:15:50,800 requirements the state is asking to us. >> Maybe it's gotten to that point. 904 01:15:48,159 --> 01:15:55,120 » I I understand Dave's point and I and I agree for the most part, but but I'm 905 01:15:52,880 --> 01:16:01,520 also thinking if we do shave everything down to the 906 01:15:58,080 --> 01:16:06,080 absolute bare minimum, what cost is it going to be to public health? What cost 907 01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:11,840 is it going to be to law enforcement? What cost is going to be uh spread to 908 01:16:09,199 --> 01:16:19,120 any other organizations or any other part of government that doesn't affect 909 01:16:15,440 --> 01:16:25,440 our budget exactly on the front, but we see it 910 01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:28,960 um as expenditures through other means. Um 911 01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:32,560 I I don't know, you know, how is that going to impact the rest of the 912 01:16:30,239 --> 01:16:37,520 community as a whole or the county as a whole? If we take those things away, you 913 01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:43,199 know, there's not always someone else there to to pick up that slack. 914 01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:48,400 Um, like I said, maybe we'll have more mental health issues, so then all of a 915 01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:54,159 sudden we're skyrocketing there or more child issues. We got an increase there. 916 01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:59,520 I mean, it because you cut it to the bare minimum doesn't mean it really 917 01:16:56,239 --> 01:17:04,800 saves you in the long term. So, and it is it's a battle. It is a huge battle. 918 01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:09,679 And if those numbers remain the same, Steve, 919 01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:14,320 we do we will border on potential going back to where we were on 920 01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:17,440 staff burnout and lack of retention, which has been a goal of Hubards 921 01:17:15,679 --> 01:17:22,960 counties in the last five to six years is strengthening retention, morale of 922 01:17:20,320 --> 01:17:28,400 staff, longevity. And if we do cut to the minimum, even if 923 01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:33,040 the cases stay the same, now you have a workforce that can't keep at that rate. 924 01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:39,360 And then you also have to account for people being out on a maternity leave or 925 01:17:36,480 --> 01:17:44,400 an extended uh family issue that they can't come in to work, you know, and 926 01:17:42,320 --> 01:17:50,159 then you have to try to backfill to fill that void. And so that may involve some 927 01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:53,840 overtime, you know, that just increases the amount of burnout that happens 928 01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:59,360 within the system. And it's a tough enough thing that everybody has to deal 929 01:17:55,679 --> 01:18:07,040 with to begin with. Um, so I'm just I'm frustrated with a lot of things, but um, 930 01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:11,840 it's just it's hard to really come up with an idea to to solve the problem 931 01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:15,600 because we haven't created all these problems ourselves within our 932 01:18:13,199 --> 01:18:20,880 organization. It it's the state and the federal really that has has 933 01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:24,159 » changed the dynamics of everything and they don't have a solution. They just 934 01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:28,239 they just want to keep kicking that can down the road, make somebody else pay 935 01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:30,960 for it, and it's the county taxpayer. >> Correct. 936 01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:34,239 » And it's it's shameful. >> Yeah. The failure of the state to manage 937 01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:37,199 its budget properly has now become a local tax liability. [snorts] 938 01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:40,960 » Yep. >> You know, and 939 01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:45,520 if they don't fund the mandates they put on us, 940 01:18:43,679 --> 01:18:48,560 we can't just keep past at some point in time, you got to seriously look at 941 01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:51,520 cutting services because you you won't have a choice and that's where you're 942 01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:57,120 going to end up anyhow. And that's really where the taxpayers of the county 943 01:18:54,560 --> 01:19:02,560 need to contact the people at the state and their federal representatives to 944 01:18:59,199 --> 01:19:07,920 keep pushing the envelope to tell tell them they're disgusted with it because 945 01:19:04,560 --> 01:19:14,960 we can voice it up all we want at AMC and and any legislative uh time we get, 946 01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:19,199 but if you don't have other people backing you and saying those same 947 01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:21,840 things, they're just they just figure, oh, you're just complaining to 948 01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:26,960 complaint. you just want to cut your budget. You don't want, you know, so it 949 01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:30,800 takes more than just us. >> It does. But the environment has been 950 01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:33,360 they haven't been they haven't even been running their social programs 951 01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:37,360 effectively and then they're piling them more on every year. 952 01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:42,080 » It's like at some point you got to fix the ones you got. So I'll just make a 953 01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:50,480 note that we haven't discussed is that in 2023 we use 1.3 million cash reserves 954 01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:55,360 and 24 800,000 and 25 750,000 budgeted to use 120 this year but we are 955 01:19:53,040 --> 01:20:00,880 outperforming that we are ahead of schedule on revenues and expenses are 956 01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:05,920 about at at when I'm looking at the financials from July 957 01:20:03,199 --> 01:20:10,800 um we can have a conversation about that this this number Um, remember this is 958 01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:16,560 the only department that we when we calculate payroll then we take 2% off 959 01:20:14,239 --> 01:20:20,880 because we always have vacancies in that. This is the only group that we've 960 01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:24,800 done that since since I've been here and half of this is that credit for having 961 01:20:23,120 --> 01:20:30,239 vacancies which is not good, [snorts and laughter] 962 01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:33,199 right? It's it's stress on on on on the people that are still there and doing 963 01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:38,000 the transitions but it's something that we've noted we can always put in there. 964 01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:42,719 So half of that is this. So, I have a couple of ideas relative to the overall 965 01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:48,080 budget request that we um are going to look at 966 01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:55,679 next, but um I just wanted to point out that this right now we're we look like 967 01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:59,440 we're instead of spending $120,000 of fund balance, we're cont we're kicking 968 01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:06,159 back a few hundred,000 based on performance this year to date through 969 01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:10,159 July. um which is good and necessary, but um 970 01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:13,800 and it kind of turns the tide a little bit from the year previous. 971 01:21:15,221 --> 01:21:20,560 [cough] I just want to say, Mike, you you manage 972 01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:24,400 a complicated department and I appreciate 973 01:21:23,679 --> 01:21:29,120 what you do. >> Thank you. 974 01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:34,640 » We all I think we all do. >> I think they've done a fantastic job 975 01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:40,719 since Um well obviously in the last four years um or five years since I've been 976 01:21:37,520 --> 01:21:46,159 here the staff um have been much happier. They've been much I think 977 01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:48,960 motivated to be doing their work. If we could really solve some of the problems 978 01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:52,800 at the state with the systems that they're using. If we could find some way 979 01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:56,560 to balance out the who's paying for what and and how much of the money that's 980 01:21:54,800 --> 01:22:00,960 allocated is actually getting used to provide services, we would be having a 981 01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:05,760 significantly different conversation. But um I've I sit in try to sit on on 982 01:22:04,159 --> 01:22:08,400 the supervisor meetings and those people are dedicated and they're working with 983 01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:13,440 their staff to do everything they possibly can. I know that Mike is 984 01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:18,560 reviewing those numbers all the time. I also see the the the 985 01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:22,320 comments we get from the public because of the [clears throat] impact that staff 986 01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:26,639 have made on their lives which are not things that we can always share with 987 01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:30,080 everybody, right? Um, we hear that and we got to find a way to generally share 988 01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:35,040 those things so that you under understand 989 01:22:32,639 --> 01:22:39,840 sometimes you do get a win. Um, sometimes sometimes you're just managing 990 01:22:37,440 --> 01:22:44,880 a bad situation, right? End of life is a bad situation and that's the biggest 991 01:22:41,679 --> 01:22:49,520 that's the biggest check writer for human services in the state of Minnesota 992 01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:54,480 is end of life stuff. Um, that's just the way we've set up our financial 993 01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:58,239 systems. people go to go into a facility, we take all their we we strip 994 01:22:56,719 --> 01:23:01,679 away anything they've ever had until they get down to having a thousand 995 01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:07,280 dollars left in their bank account and then we pay those fees for them until 996 01:23:05,440 --> 01:23:11,040 they die. I mean that that's our end of life strategy um in the state of 997 01:23:09,280 --> 01:23:15,840 Minnesota and the way we manage that and the number of people that we have on 998 01:23:12,639 --> 01:23:20,440 programs like that is higher than anywhere else because of our aging 999 01:23:17,440 --> 01:23:20,440 population. 1000 01:23:20,639 --> 01:23:26,880 But we will go back and we will take a look and test some of those theories 1001 01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:31,440 that you've asked us to test. Um I will take a look at our proposed projected 1002 01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:36,679 fund balance for 2020 end of 2026 and see if there's anything we can do with 1003 01:23:32,719 --> 01:23:36,679 that. Um 1004 01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:43,520 and then the one thing that I do want to do that this tries to get at this 1005 01:23:41,679 --> 01:23:46,719 summary, but it's still a lot of still a lot of data. um when the three of us 1006 01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:49,760 have a conversation of this, we can go through and we can pick through it 1007 01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:56,000 because we're used to working with this stuff. But um one of the things that I 1008 01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:59,920 think we need to we need to explain is little pie chart that shows how much is 1009 01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:02,639 happening in adult services, right? That end of life stuff is how much is 1010 01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:08,880 happening in mental health and children's services. Um so you can so 1011 01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:13,040 you can get that in the context of um of what's happening with that. And then 1012 01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:16,639 with the um cash assistance, where does that come in and how does it work and 1013 01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:19,600 get some statistics on that for you because you need you people will those 1014 01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:25,000 are the questions people in the community are going to ask you and you 1015 01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:25,000 need to have answers about that 1016 01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:32,000 » and I know your staff goes above and beyond as well, Mike. Um they donate 1017 01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:37,199 their time um items 1018 01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:43,320 and it's appreciated. >> Thank you. 1019 01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,320 Thanks. 1020 01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:57,840 » Yep. Okay. by the budget overview. 1021 01:24:54,320 --> 01:25:03,120 » Then just um just generally um going through and and Mike suggested 1022 01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:09,679 we had been we had looked at this for in previous years from 2018 to the current 1023 01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:14,800 year and um I went back to 2017 because that's the point in time when um when 1024 01:25:12,239 --> 01:25:20,400 the first cut to the levy for human services was made. 1025 01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:27,440 Um general fund levy has been relatively stable from 2017 to 2026 because we've 1026 01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:31,600 had increased interest earnings. Uh 2027 anticipated interest earnings are 1027 01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:37,040 reduced by about 450,000. So instead of 1.1 million we're looking at six 6 and a 1028 01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:43,280 half or 650,000. um 2027 1029 01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:49,040 uh we have $730,000 [snorts] in capital projects for um paving at the courthouse 1030 01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:56,480 and at the highway department which we didn't have before. Those two numbers 1031 01:25:52,000 --> 01:26:00,560 are the difference between um the 26 general fund levy and the 27 proposed 1032 01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:05,520 levy. Highway's been very consistent at 3%. 1033 01:26:03,424 --> 01:26:11,679 [sighs] This is the curve relative to social services. The red line is the 1034 01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:15,960 actual. Um the green line is 3% and the um yellow line is 7%. 1035 01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:25,360 Um when we've already discussed that the public safety one we know um the red 1036 01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:31,120 line is the actual the yellow line is 9% and the green line is 3% if it would 1037 01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:36,080 would have been on that that range. The decrease in levy requests for public 1038 01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:40,080 safety is not a decrease in their operating expense. It's because we had a 1039 01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:44,080 spike last year because we were paying to outsource prisoners during the um 1040 01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:49,120 during the construction and we're not budgeting for that for 2027. So, we're 1041 01:26:46,719 --> 01:26:55,960 not seeing a decrease in their operating. we're just seeing a normal 1042 01:26:50,960 --> 01:26:55,960 increase um less that 1043 01:26:56,719 --> 01:27:00,360 the um 1044 01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:14,080 the number that I showed you last time um was this 12.3% increase to 25.7 1045 01:27:10,159 --> 01:27:18,400 million. What I am proposing that we can do is reduce that 1046 01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:24,560 by $500,000 um for our meeting next week when we set 1047 01:27:22,239 --> 01:27:30,239 a preliminary levy and get us down to 10% or even 9.9 whatever you want that 1048 01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:33,920 number to be because I can take something from human services when we 1049 01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:39,760 take a look at our fund balance as it is right now and how much we need to add to 1050 01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:44,560 that so that 28 doesn't catch us so far off offg guard. 1051 01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:50,080 um in the law enforcement center. I had payroll run um 1052 01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:55,679 had a had them run a report for everything budgeted and then for 1053 01:27:52,159 --> 01:28:00,639 everything um budgeted but has been vacant for a period of time and there's 1054 01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:04,880 about $150,000 worth of payroll that we haven't spent because we have vacant 1055 01:28:02,639 --> 01:28:09,440 positions we haven't been able to fill. So that would be my proposal there would 1056 01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:12,880 be uh they have a tendency to fill that up with overtime 1057 01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:17,639 but that's the conversation we need to have there is much of the overtime 1058 01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:23,040 I guess half of the overtime is because of the nature of the business that 1059 01:28:21,679 --> 01:28:25,040 they're doing. You can't stop what you're doing at the end of a shift 1060 01:28:24,159 --> 01:28:28,960 because you're in the middle of something. Uh you can't not cover a 1061 01:28:27,199 --> 01:28:31,760 shift in the jail or in the dispatch because we have to have the coverage 1062 01:28:30,239 --> 01:28:36,320 24/7. Um, but how you allocate that overtime 1063 01:28:34,480 --> 01:28:41,199 and make sure that it's shared more equally than it has been, that's 1064 01:28:38,639 --> 01:28:46,880 something that management can do. And then general fund, we could take 1065 01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:51,440 $100,000 off of there um and just use a budget to use additional 1066 01:28:49,440 --> 01:29:00,719 fund balance. We could um we could defer the paving 1067 01:28:56,800 --> 01:29:05,040 project by a year. Um, but that doesn't really help us because in 28 it's going 1068 01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:10,719 to cost more than it will in 27. And I think that we can see that that 1069 01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:13,679 is. But what I'm proposing is barring any further direction from you is that 1070 01:29:12,639 --> 01:29:17,840 I'm going to bring you a number that says 9.9 for a preliminary increase and 1071 01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:22,960 then we still have two or three months to work with it. And this is how I would 1072 01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:25,960 get there is with a combination of those numbers. 1073 01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:38,480 And just a reminder, it doesn't make it better, but it does make it better. Um, 1074 01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:42,719 we are scheduled to see a 20% increase in tax capacity this year because of 1075 01:29:40,239 --> 01:29:48,719 throughput in our utility transmissions, which means if you 1076 01:29:45,120 --> 01:29:52,320 didn't pull a permit this past year, um, even a 10% increase in levy from the 1077 01:29:50,480 --> 01:29:56,360 county is end up is going to end up with a reduction in county taxes. 1078 01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:07,040 long term doesn't make it better this year. Um I know we had a 7% 1079 01:30:05,120 --> 01:30:10,960 increase for this year and many people saw actual decreases in their taxes 1080 01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:14,320 because the tax capacity growth was more than that. 1081 01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:19,040 » Uh cost for the personnel does that take into account how much insurance might go 1082 01:30:16,400 --> 01:30:23,920 up? We are estimating 10% increase which is 1083 01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:29,120 actually a 20% increase because we split it with the employees. Uh we are going 1084 01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:33,520 to get an update today and the benefits committee is having a meeting later this 1085 01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:40,320 week. Oh, she's not there. We will discuss that in the personnel committee 1086 01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:44,400 meeting after this. What we know um the um six-month numbers for us were not 1087 01:30:42,639 --> 01:30:50,480 good. um our usage is significantly above, you 1088 01:30:48,480 --> 01:30:54,000 know, you want you want your usage to be at 100% of your premiums. [snorts] 1089 01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:57,280 Actually, you want it to be about 93% of your premium so you can pay the 1090 01:30:55,280 --> 01:31:02,239 administrative costs. Then we would see a decrease in our in our um proposed 1091 01:31:00,239 --> 01:31:07,280 rates. That's not the case. So, I think that 1092 01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:11,360 the 20% we're estimating is probably accurate, which is not good, but it 1093 01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:14,400 seems to be consistent with what people are seeing, and we would see half of 1094 01:31:12,719 --> 01:31:19,040 that. That's what's included in this these numbers. Now, 1095 01:31:17,440 --> 01:31:26,080 we'll give personnel committee will get a little more insight um right after 1096 01:31:21,920 --> 01:31:30,960 this meeting and I will have likely a number to include in here so that when 1097 01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:34,520 um we do a preliminary we know what we're accounting for. 1098 01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:44,159 So I was thinking a little more too about it across the board cut. But the 1099 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:50,080 problem with that is you know what we're facing next year and generally when you 1100 01:31:47,679 --> 01:31:54,159 do that you you end up having to grow back pretty fast within two or three 1101 01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:58,400 years. I don't know that 1102 01:31:56,480 --> 01:32:03,320 I don't know if that'll benefit us when we're looking at probably a bigger 1103 01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:03,320 problem in 28. 1104 01:32:03,600 --> 01:32:07,800 you may compound your problem. 1105 01:32:08,239 --> 01:32:15,320 » Yeah, there are more changes and and less actual certainty on what they're 1106 01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:15,320 going to be in 2028. 1107 01:32:26,400 --> 01:32:31,560 So, we'll have more information, more discussion, 1108 01:32:31,600 --> 01:32:36,679 but that's what I'm going to bring you next week for consideration. 1109 01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:43,280 And then I see Jonathan did make it from Wald, 1110 01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:46,960 » so that's good. We're glad he's We're actually glad he's here because he had a 1111 01:32:44,719 --> 01:32:50,839 little I don't know some sort of a traffic incident this morning and had to 1112 01:32:48,639 --> 01:32:53,440 change cars before he could get here. [snorts] 1113 01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:58,960 Anybody got any questions for J? 1114 01:32:55,679 --> 01:33:02,560 » Just just that you know it'd be nice if I I just want to make sure that every 1115 01:33:00,639 --> 01:33:09,120 department head is really going through everything with a fine tooth comb and 1116 01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:13,520 really trying to seriously take it down to where it's it's only what's 1117 01:33:11,840 --> 01:33:19,199 necessary. Um, I I don't want to 1118 01:33:16,639 --> 01:33:24,239 say that we need to have a mandatory such a percentage off of everybody's 1119 01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:29,920 budget, but I I do think there's there's some room in some of these. Um, 1120 01:33:27,760 --> 01:33:38,000 but once again, we do need to keep our eye on 28 and realize what impacts may 1121 01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:42,320 be there. You know, is it going to be a rubber band like you were saying that 1122 01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:46,719 » we just end up trying to make up for it? playing catchup is a lot harder because 1123 01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:52,400 it impacts harder. So, um I just want to [clears throat] 1124 01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:59,760 just want to try to keep things to the bare bones if we can um just so it is a 1125 01:33:56,560 --> 01:34:04,400 little easier to absorb in 28 hopefully without such a significant increase. Um 1126 01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:08,320 because there there's probably things that are asked for that are not 1127 01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:12,080 necessary. >> Yeah. 1128 01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:16,000 And who knows, maybe we'll get pleasantly surprised and something will 1129 01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:22,080 change for 28. But you know, just just the info we got from AMC District 2 on 1130 01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:28,080 what the SNAP and Medicaid, it was like twice as large in 28 than it was in 1131 01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:35,719 » 27. So, >> and they're um 1132 01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:35,719 » and fraud, 1133 01:34:36,480 --> 01:34:41,679 » and it's money we can't get back either. >> Mhm. 1134 01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:44,480 Plus, they're not doing anything to prevent it yet. 1135 01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:50,840 » Doesn't appear. I mean, they're finding new stuff yet. 1136 01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:50,840 » So, yeah. 1137 01:34:50,960 --> 01:34:58,400 They got any >> the only way to have government spend 1138 01:34:56,400 --> 01:35:03,320 less money is to give them less money to spend. 1139 01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:03,320 » Perfect. 1140 01:35:05,440 --> 01:35:11,280 Mhm. >> It may not be a simple solution, but 1141 01:35:10,480 --> 01:35:14,560 » yeah, >> it's the truth. 1142 01:35:12,719 --> 01:35:22,199 » Yeah, we're at the bottom of the totem pole unfortunately and 1143 01:35:17,920 --> 01:35:22,199 we're just pushing her down the line. 1144 01:35:23,120 --> 01:35:30,880 And then that'd be great if they let us run our programs the way we [snorts] 1145 01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:35,520 » needed to probably make it work. Maybe there'll be a change in the legislature 1146 01:35:32,719 --> 01:35:38,520 this year. >> Yeah. 1147 01:35:38,639 --> 01:35:43,120 » All right. Anything else? >> Well, let's hear the good news about the 1148 01:35:42,719 --> 01:35:46,320 jail. >> Let's go to IC where we can spend some 1149 01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:50,480 more money. >> You guys will have this wonderful 1150 01:35:47,760 --> 01:35:56,916 solution for us and Mark, right? >> Costf free. 1151 01:35:53,520 --> 01:35:56,916 » Only my friends. [laughter] 1152 01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:10,639 Perfect. Well, thank you for having us. I'm Jason Splat with IC. I think most of 1153 01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:15,120 you know me, and I'll let Jonathan introduce himself here. 1154 01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:20,159 » Jonathan Loz with W Architects. Um, firm that's worked with ICS uh for a number 1155 01:36:17,199 --> 01:36:25,199 of different years now. Um, we're out of Minneapolis. Uh, been doing probably 1156 01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:29,679 county work pretty much my whole career. So, 20 plus years. worked with a lot of 1157 01:36:27,440 --> 01:36:33,360 Minnesota counties and been through a lot of these studies. So, just kind of 1158 01:36:31,360 --> 01:36:38,639 the breadth of experience we have kind of helps provide some knowledge base for 1159 01:36:36,159 --> 01:36:42,239 um how we do what we do and I'm certainly open to any questions there 1160 01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:46,080 might be on the information, but this is sort of a check in on the data that we 1161 01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:49,360 found so far and then there's another iteration of providing some, you know, 1162 01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:53,600 different options and things like that. So, we don't have a lot of pretty 1163 01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:57,119 pictures for you today yet, but uh we've got information that I think will 1164 01:36:55,600 --> 01:37:00,960 hopefully help you kind of come along with the process and understand where 1165 01:36:59,199 --> 01:37:05,119 we're going from here. >> Yeah. And as Jonathan said, you know, 1166 01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:08,960 we're going to first review process. We're going to look at the existing 1167 01:37:07,119 --> 01:37:13,199 deferred maintenance needs of each of the spaces. That kind of sets it, you 1168 01:37:11,040 --> 01:37:17,679 know, apart. This is what we need to invest in each of these spaces. Then 1169 01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:22,639 Jonathan will walk us through some of the space needs both short and long term 1170 01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:28,320 and then kind of wrap that up with the study next step. So Jeeoff if you want 1171 01:37:24,960 --> 01:37:33,920 to go to process to date. So as you know IC did a deep dive into your facility 1172 01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:37,440 back in 2122 um just to understand what are your 1173 01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:42,239 needs kind of helped develop some of that capital improvement plan and we 1174 01:37:39,679 --> 01:37:47,679 really looked at that and then rewalked the spaces to provide those updates. Our 1175 01:37:45,119 --> 01:37:53,920 focus area was attorney courts, probation, the old jail area, um the 1176 01:37:51,360 --> 01:37:58,320 basement of the LEC, and then also looking at the human services just 1177 01:37:56,080 --> 01:38:03,520 because of the adjacencies of that space to courts and and 1178 01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:09,840 everything kind of on this end of the building here. So um from the space 1179 01:38:07,119 --> 01:38:13,840 programming side, Jonathan and his team came up, interviewed the department 1180 01:38:12,080 --> 01:38:19,760 heads just to understand what their needs are, sent out a survey that kind 1181 01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:24,719 of tied into that and then met with Jeff, met back with department heads 1182 01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:29,520 just to validate the information that we had. So 1183 01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:36,320 when we look at [clears throat] um the deferred maintenance, what we're 1184 01:38:32,320 --> 01:38:41,920 showing you today is the 10-year needs. So you know, not just short-term, this 1185 01:38:38,719 --> 01:38:46,000 is the full next 10 years and kind of use that as our baseline as we look to 1186 01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:50,960 the future on some of the decisions and some of the areas that need some 1187 01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:58,000 attention. So start with the government center here. Um notable issues there 1188 01:38:54,480 --> 01:39:04,080 mainly is the mechanical systems. Those were all updated um a while back, but 1189 01:39:01,199 --> 01:39:11,360 they're coming due. The other major piece of that is the roofing is going to 1190 01:39:07,199 --> 01:39:16,080 be approaching 20 years old at 2033. So something that we want to start planning 1191 01:39:13,440 --> 01:39:20,639 for holistically. Um, when we look at just that image there, as you folks 1192 01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:25,119 know, the brown areas were all renovated as part of the project that is kind of 1193 01:39:23,119 --> 01:39:32,880 wrapping up now and then the rest of that blue area was kind of that 2013 1194 01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:40,000 project. So, um, just have a handful of pictures on the next slides that just 1195 01:39:36,480 --> 01:39:43,679 kind of identify some of those areas. Um obviously county attorney, county 1196 01:39:42,159 --> 01:39:49,920 auditor, there is no deferred maintenance in those areas just due to 1197 01:39:46,239 --> 01:39:56,080 the last round of projects being done. As we look at the next slide being the 1198 01:39:53,040 --> 01:40:01,520 probation area, um HVAC systems are beyond their useful lives. You have your 1199 01:39:58,719 --> 01:40:07,199 ACT or acoustical tile ceilings and a lot of the finishes in that space that 1200 01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:13,760 are in need of updates. Um only the one employee bathroom. So, no duplication 1201 01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:20,000 for your analysis, any of those things. And then the ADA accessibility 1202 01:40:16,400 --> 01:40:25,280 component, a lot of the round door knobs that don't meet that ADA within there. 1203 01:40:22,639 --> 01:40:30,239 So, Jeff, if you go to the next slide, we can see some of the photos that just 1204 01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:34,880 kind of accompany that space and some of the areas that they're using today. 1205 01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:36,800 So, [snorts] >> and what's the issue with the wood door? 1206 01:40:36,549 --> 01:40:39,360 [clears throat] >> What's that? What's an issue with a wood 1207 01:40:38,639 --> 01:40:42,560 door? >> Uh, it's not so much the wood door, it's 1208 01:40:41,440 --> 01:40:43,600 the door knobs. >> Okay. 1209 01:40:43,119 --> 01:40:46,880 » Yep. >> So, replacing a door knob would be less 1210 01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:48,800 than replacing a door. >> Correct. 1211 01:40:47,600 --> 01:40:54,320 » Yep. >> Thank you. 1212 01:40:50,960 --> 01:41:03,119 » Um, [clears throat] moving down to old jail area. So, that connection point 1213 01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:07,760 from our courts over to the um LEC original HVAC systems. Again, we have 1214 01:41:05,679 --> 01:41:15,360 the ceilings and a lot of those finishes that are um existing jail cells that are 1215 01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:19,119 now used for storage. Um VCT flooring in poor condition. You got some paint 1216 01:41:16,719 --> 01:41:24,719 peeling and just kind of an area that's almost been mothballled at this point 1217 01:41:21,119 --> 01:41:30,480 and just used as storage. Um and more or less a pathway from the LEC over to the 1218 01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:35,280 courts. So >> really been no deferred maintenance done 1219 01:41:33,040 --> 01:41:40,080 in 20 years. because it's been it has you know the 1220 01:41:37,760 --> 01:41:46,000 old jail has not been used. It's used as transport and uh the probation space is 1221 01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:49,280 in the old administrative offices for the old jail. 1222 01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:53,600 » Correct. So you can just see some of the photos of that space and and how it's 1223 01:41:51,760 --> 01:42:00,480 being used now. That bottom bottom middle photo is just storage for jail 1224 01:41:56,400 --> 01:42:07,360 probation for other areas. So uh going down as we look at the judicial 1225 01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:13,760 area again kind of similar concept HBAC systems are nearing their life. You have 1226 01:42:10,400 --> 01:42:19,920 some of the finishes. Um one of the bigger components there is courtrooms 1227 01:42:16,400 --> 01:42:24,400 lack ADA and then the jury room restrooms that are right off that small 1228 01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:29,080 meeting room don't meet ADA accessibility within that area. 1229 01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:38,880 So you can just see some of the photos of that space. 1230 01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:46,239 So when we look at the overall budgets for that those areas again these are 1231 01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:51,119 10-year budget forecasts for what is the deferred maintenance needs of each of 1232 01:42:48,719 --> 01:42:57,199 those areas. So when we look at the government center that 2.1 million again 1233 01:42:54,400 --> 01:43:01,600 the majority of that is HVAC roofs. We have the probation area at about 1234 01:42:59,440 --> 01:43:08,639 428,000. We have the old jail at about that 1.3 1235 01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:14,800 and then the judicial area at about 1.1 million. So about 5 million in total 1236 01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:20,719 deferred maintenance needs in those areas for the next 10 years. But that 1237 01:43:18,239 --> 01:43:25,440 doesn't include any updates. >> That doesn't include any changing of the 1238 01:43:23,040 --> 01:43:31,119 spaces. That's just replacing what is there like for like. So 1239 01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:34,719 » So the the government center dollars are identified in the deferred maintenance 1240 01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:36,560 plan that we're working with now and the other stuff is not really 1241 01:43:36,021 --> 01:43:41,040 [clears throat] because we haven't looked at that. 1242 01:43:38,400 --> 01:43:46,320 » Yeah. So, knowing that we have an aging roof and that we have mechanical systems 1243 01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:50,639 that need to be updated, we did update two major boilers and um but we've got 1244 01:43:49,119 --> 01:43:55,040 some other things that'll be coming up. So, this number is included in the 1245 01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:59,280 capital plan that we have to this point on a on a 10-year horizon. The other 1246 01:43:57,360 --> 01:44:04,159 things are not. >> So, what's that old jail that then that 1247 01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:07,199 one 1.3 million doesn't have anything to do with any potential changes to that 1248 01:44:06,560 --> 01:44:11,760 space? >> Nope. that's just fixing what is there 1249 01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:15,760 now. So, we thought this step was an important gives you that baseline for 1250 01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:22,159 what are our deferred maintenance needs. Jonathan's next going to talk about what 1251 01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:27,520 are our programming needs and then we'll come back to you folks with solutions 1252 01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:32,159 both in the short term and the long term to address not only the deferred 1253 01:44:29,760 --> 01:44:35,280 maintenance but the space needs that Jonathan's going to walk through here 1254 01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:37,760 now. >> Oh, go ahead. Well, just so I 1255 01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:43,840 understand, Jeeoff, can you go back to the slide, previous slide right there? 1256 01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:49,119 Just so I understand better, we're not using the old jail. Could we, 1257 01:44:46,159 --> 01:44:52,480 if we only looked at this, could you fix like probation without doing something 1258 01:44:51,119 --> 01:44:56,159 to old jail or is everything intertwined? 1259 01:44:54,159 --> 01:45:00,239 » We could potentially >> Perfect question. Uh, I was going to 1260 01:44:57,920 --> 01:45:05,119 give you the caveat that although it looks like the old jail number could 1261 01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:09,760 just be scrubbed out. I mean, we have to look at every option. And so, if it's a 1262 01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:14,480 possibility to continue to use that square footage and repurpose it for 1263 01:45:11,679 --> 01:45:19,600 something else, that's on the table. So, as far as we're concerned, we're looking 1264 01:45:16,639 --> 01:45:23,679 at, you know, complete reuse and no additional square footage all the way up 1265 01:45:21,119 --> 01:45:27,040 to take it all down and start over. That's a whole spectrum of options that 1266 01:45:25,440 --> 01:45:30,400 we're going to be looking at. And certainly, we hope that somewhere in 1267 01:45:28,639 --> 01:45:35,360 between there, you'll find what works for, you know, Hubard County. But I 1268 01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:39,360 mean, that's why we're not saying take this off yet. I think we need to kind of 1269 01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:45,480 fold it all together and determine what the best approach is from a budget and 1270 01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:45,480 just planning standpoint. 1271 01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:51,199 Meaning, you can't provide better mechanical systems and probation without 1272 01:45:50,080 --> 01:45:52,880 dealing with them throughout the old jail. 1273 01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:55,520 » Yeah, that's what I thought. >> The roof the roofs are tied together. 1274 01:45:54,719 --> 01:45:59,679 » Yeah. um we can't come up with the actual the 1275 01:45:57,840 --> 01:46:04,960 additional program space and office space that probation needs primarily 1276 01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:08,480 because moving walls in an old jail is not like moving walls in a in a office 1277 01:46:07,040 --> 01:46:11,679 building, right? >> Um there's structural or the 1278 01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:17,440 construction is such that they're really a challenge. So, um I think we're going 1279 01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:22,320 to do some mental calisthenics when we get to the end of this once Jonathan 1280 01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:28,080 goes through the the um the program summaries. 1281 01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:32,719 So, as uh Jason said before, we met with um basically each of the department 1282 01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:38,320 heads twice and checked in with Jeff on that, too. Part of what we have is a 1283 01:46:36,080 --> 01:46:42,159 survey that basically asks a bunch of questions about every individual 1284 01:46:39,920 --> 01:46:47,040 department. Talks about what their current, you know, operating model is, 1285 01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:51,679 what they foresee as potential future needs in terms of program changes. I 1286 01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:55,600 mean, you just talked about the, you know, social services, the Medicaid 1287 01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:58,960 stuff. Those are all things that people see coming on the horizon that 1288 01:46:56,880 --> 01:47:04,239 potentially have a staff impact and also then a square footage impact to how much 1289 01:47:01,679 --> 01:47:07,520 space you might need to take up. Um, in addition to that, we're also looking at, 1290 01:47:06,480 --> 01:47:11,760 you know, what are your current deficiencies? If you're already in an 1291 01:47:09,679 --> 01:47:15,679 office space that only holds 10 people, but you got 15, that's something we need 1292 01:47:14,080 --> 01:47:20,080 to recognize, probably needs to be addressed sooner than later. Um, the way 1293 01:47:18,239 --> 01:47:25,119 that we organized this is we actually looked at kind of a fiveyear horizon and 1294 01:47:22,960 --> 01:47:30,159 then we'll say like a 15 to 20 year horizon. Now that means that Jason's 1295 01:47:27,920 --> 01:47:33,679 10year budget for the deferred maintenance stuff is somewhere in 1296 01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:37,679 between there. And I think that's just a matter of us kind of deciding whatever 1297 01:47:36,159 --> 01:47:41,760 the right solution is. We just need to find the right year to plop that in so 1298 01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:46,000 that we can budget that accordingly in terms of, you know, escalation and all 1299 01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:50,320 those other things. Um, but the reality is the five-year need is just a 1300 01:47:48,159 --> 01:47:54,960 short-term like let's try not to do too much just to accommodate these 1301 01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:58,159 departments for now knowing that it's not likely that there's going to be a 1302 01:47:56,239 --> 01:48:02,400 big investment until further down the road. So that's when we looked at that 1303 01:47:59,920 --> 01:48:06,560 15 to 20 year mark and said okay if you're thinking about your future what 1304 01:48:04,719 --> 01:48:11,040 does that really look like and what more you know probably bigger changes might 1305 01:48:08,239 --> 01:48:15,280 need to be made to accommodate those. So that's what those kind of three 1306 01:48:12,480 --> 01:48:19,280 different categories are. Existing is just what it is, how much space you're 1307 01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:24,000 taking up now. 5 years is what you think would look like then. And then 15 to 20 1308 01:48:21,760 --> 01:48:28,320 is if we really like planned for as far out as we could foreseeably understand 1309 01:48:26,560 --> 01:48:31,679 your department's going to look like. That's how much square footage we're 1310 01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:35,280 looking at. So, just to go through some bullet points on the um different 1311 01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:41,280 departments, the county attorney um obviously another legal assistant, an 1312 01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:44,719 assistant attorney, they kind of um look at that as needing an additional one 1313 01:48:42,880 --> 01:48:49,440 every 5 years. And so, if you start to add that up, that's just, you know, an 1314 01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:55,119 office and then a workstation once every five years. So, taking that into a much 1315 01:48:52,639 --> 01:48:59,360 more detailed program that we have, um, we're looking at every single individual 1316 01:48:57,280 --> 01:49:04,639 space and assigning a square footage to that. Um, and those square footages 1317 01:49:01,679 --> 01:49:09,199 aren't based on what the departments had told us. Those square footages are based 1318 01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:14,719 on what, you know, other similar counties are using and just sort of 1319 01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:19,760 traditional um, office space design uh, would utilize. So, if we're saying just 1320 01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:24,320 a standard office, you know, we're looking at about that 150 square f foot 1321 01:49:22,239 --> 01:49:27,520 number, um we're not just taking whatever number they've got now and 1322 01:49:25,840 --> 01:49:31,600 saying, "Okay, well, you got 300 square feet. We'll just kind of translate that 1323 01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:37,600 forward." So, we're trying to use some just um industry standards for those 1324 01:49:34,239 --> 01:49:40,719 individual spaces. So, um that's all of these different numbers kind of take 1325 01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:44,560 that into account as we look forward here. Uh the other one that um the 1326 01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:49,280 county attorney is looking at is an actual like conference room for their 1327 01:49:46,159 --> 01:49:52,719 whole um department as well as bringing in some outside parties as well. There's 1328 01:49:51,040 --> 01:49:56,639 just not a great room for them to do that right now in a private way. Um 1329 01:49:55,119 --> 01:50:00,400 especially if you have a victim or witness that you're um holding and you 1330 01:49:59,119 --> 01:50:05,280 might have to have some individual meetings or have them kind of outside of 1331 01:50:02,719 --> 01:50:10,400 the public way until um courts in session. So um those are the two big 1332 01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:14,560 ones. Uh reality is five-year needs, there really isn't anything um they're 1333 01:50:12,159 --> 01:50:18,480 going to make do for now. Um but in 15 to 20 years, you're looking at about 1334 01:50:16,080 --> 01:50:23,480 a,400 square foot increase for those different positions that they're going 1335 01:50:19,679 --> 01:50:23,480 to be looking to add. 1336 01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:32,159 Um going on to court administration and courts. Um so for this one, um we're 1337 01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:35,760 looking at actually three or four different groups. So, we're looking at 1338 01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:41,679 court administration, just sort of general court areas that would support 1339 01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:46,639 um the courtrooms. So, that would be uh you know, other offices, the judges 1340 01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:51,840 chambers, um conference rooms that support the courtrooms. Um and then we 1341 01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:57,520 look at just the courts themselves um purely. Uh, and then the fourth one 1342 01:50:54,800 --> 01:51:01,360 is court security, which oftentimes we kind of assign that to the sheriff's 1343 01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:04,800 office, but for the purposes of today because it's within this footprint, 1344 01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:09,440 we're looking at the court security piece of this as well. Um, so the 1345 01:51:07,920 --> 01:51:13,119 numbers at the bottom of this one are actually inaccurate because they only 1346 01:51:11,280 --> 01:51:16,239 take into account just like the court administration piece. Um, so I'm going 1347 01:51:15,119 --> 01:51:21,360 to give you the numbers and then we can update this slide for um, future 1348 01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:25,040 purposes. But um just the bullet points on it providing some separate offices 1349 01:51:23,360 --> 01:51:30,480 for court administrator and court supervisor. Um they're combined right 1350 01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:34,320 now having um again I think Jason touched on this before because there's 1351 01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:38,639 kind of an overlap between uh deferred maintenance and program needs when you 1352 01:51:36,000 --> 01:51:42,480 have accessibility issues. Um so that's something that certainly is a program 1353 01:51:40,239 --> 01:51:47,040 issue as well and a square footage issue. Once you start adding ramps to a 1354 01:51:44,480 --> 01:51:50,719 courtroom and um the necessary turning radius for wheelchairs and things like 1355 01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:55,840 that, the courtroom just inherently is going to get bigger. Um and then we've 1356 01:51:53,280 --> 01:52:00,880 got just public counter kiosk queuing, security glazing is improvement to that 1357 01:51:57,840 --> 01:52:04,800 whole public area. Um and then more visual privacy between the judges 1358 01:52:02,639 --> 01:52:08,800 chambers and the sidewalk by probation entry. So just sort of some security 1359 01:52:06,480 --> 01:52:12,960 issues that um could potentially have a space impact as well. Um, again, not 1360 01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:16,960 every single one of these means that there's more square footage. Um, it's 1361 01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:21,599 just a deficiency in how it's organized right now that if we do some sort of 1362 01:52:19,599 --> 01:52:25,440 rethinking of how we organize their space, uh, we'll try to take this into 1363 01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:30,719 account and it may or may not have a square footage impact overall. Um, if we 1364 01:52:28,320 --> 01:52:34,960 look at the the big numbers, I'll say from all of courts, so all four of those 1365 01:52:32,719 --> 01:52:39,920 groups that I talked about, um, right now you're at about 7,500 square ft. um 1366 01:52:38,159 --> 01:52:44,000 the five-year need doesn't change at all. There's maybe like one additional 1367 01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:49,920 office, so it's only about a 40 square foot change. Um but then in the 15 to 20 1368 01:52:47,679 --> 01:52:55,040 year need, if we're looking at actually providing a courtroom that provides for 1369 01:52:52,320 --> 01:52:58,880 the full jury box, um all the accessibility needs with the ramping and 1370 01:52:57,040 --> 01:53:02,560 the turning radius and everything that's there, as well as supporting a smaller 1371 01:53:01,199 --> 01:53:07,520 courtroom that's actually a little bit more user friendly for, um family court 1372 01:53:05,440 --> 01:53:14,080 and other things like that. Um then we're going from the 7500 that I said up 1373 01:53:10,159 --> 01:53:19,599 to about 17,000 and that accommodates um additional space for court security um 1374 01:53:17,280 --> 01:53:23,360 expanded courtroom which is the biggest component of that. Um and then some 1375 01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:28,000 additional offices for court administration and some different um 1376 01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:33,199 additional conference rooms for um just to support that whole courts area, 1377 01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:37,679 especially when you have attorneys or um defendants coming out and having some 1378 01:53:35,040 --> 01:53:41,440 breakout meetings during se um while court's in session. Um right now you're 1379 01:53:40,080 --> 01:53:45,199 a little bit short on having those meeting rooms to accommodate those sort 1380 01:53:43,119 --> 01:53:50,239 of private meetings and that can create some just privacy and security 1381 01:53:47,199 --> 01:53:53,920 conflicts. Is the court meeting only in person now or are they doing hybrid? 1382 01:53:52,159 --> 01:53:57,440 » They're do I would say hybrid is the model that they're taking right now. So 1383 01:53:55,520 --> 01:54:02,320 there's definitely still a lot of remote hearings and things like that. Um but 1384 01:53:59,599 --> 01:54:09,360 when you do have to have um an in person which can be requested by either party 1385 01:54:05,440 --> 01:54:13,280 um or if it's a full jury trial um then you would have to use that full 1386 01:54:10,480 --> 01:54:16,719 courtroom and um just to support that you know in the future that's where 1387 01:54:15,119 --> 01:54:20,000 having that accessibility and some of those other sighteline and security 1388 01:54:18,239 --> 01:54:23,000 things I think updated would be beneficial. 1389 01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:32,239 So that's where those numbers set. Uh moving forward to 1390 01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:35,040 um county attorneys >> going the opposite way. 1391 01:54:33,119 --> 01:54:38,040 » Oh yeah, I got to go backwards now. Sorry. 1392 01:54:39,199 --> 01:54:48,320 Uh so then to probation um you know right now looking at the 1393 01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:53,440 their need is a minimum of about seven private offices. Um and so that's a more 1394 01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:57,440 immediate need for them right now. um which means they're probably one of the 1395 01:54:55,599 --> 01:55:01,599 departments here that actually does jump up in that fiveyear mark. Um but that 1396 01:54:59,760 --> 01:55:05,920 doesn't change much out to the long term. Um just because their needs are 1397 01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:10,159 already more immediate with the number of staff and the clients that they have. 1398 01:55:08,159 --> 01:55:15,520 Um so providing a minimum of seven private offices. Um having a conference 1399 01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:21,440 room for a larger group of 12 to 14 people. Um the need for an additional 1400 01:55:18,639 --> 01:55:26,719 smaller interview room. Um, and that has to have some of that visibility and 1401 01:55:23,119 --> 01:55:31,360 safety um, embedded into it. Uh, and then right now the um, UA testing that 1402 01:55:29,920 --> 01:55:37,920 they do is actually in the staff bathroom as well. Um, which, you know, 1403 01:55:35,119 --> 01:55:42,800 in general is just not a great idea. Um, and not real kosher, I would say, but it 1404 01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:45,520 also just, um, creates some security issues and things like that, too. if you 1405 01:55:44,400 --> 01:55:49,119 have staff that have to go somewhere else to use the bathroom while you have 1406 01:55:47,599 --> 01:55:53,440 a client in there and you're doing UA testing, um it just creates conflict. 1407 01:55:51,520 --> 01:55:59,520 So, traditionally, most counties would have a separated um public and um UA 1408 01:55:57,440 --> 01:56:04,560 toilet or staff and UA toilet to be able to do that in a more secure manner. Um 1409 01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:08,000 and there's just um again, we we wrote down plumbing and hot water issues 1410 01:56:06,239 --> 01:56:11,440 within the current space. Obviously, those are things that Jason picked up in 1411 01:56:09,679 --> 01:56:14,480 his deferred maintenance stuff, but as we go through these interviews, 1412 01:56:13,040 --> 01:56:18,159 occasionally they'll bring up other things and we just document it just to 1413 01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:23,199 make sure that it's been written down. So, again, the the jump between now and 1414 01:56:20,480 --> 01:56:28,000 that 5-year need goes from around 1,900 up to about 3,000. Um, again, most of 1415 01:56:26,320 --> 01:56:32,239 that is just the conference room and the additional staff offices. Uh, and then 1416 01:56:30,639 --> 01:56:37,239 there's really not much change between there and that 15 to 20 year need. 1417 01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:46,560 So, moving on to the sheriff's office. Again, we we only really scratched the 1418 01:56:44,320 --> 01:56:50,800 surface of this knowing that uh much of their space has already been sort of 1419 01:56:48,320 --> 01:56:56,880 updated and we only really looked at the basement and kind of where the EOC and 1420 01:56:55,040 --> 01:57:00,080 um emergency management and some of their training rooms are to try to 1421 01:56:58,719 --> 01:57:04,880 respect the fact that that's something that just wasn't addressed in the last 1422 01:57:02,000 --> 01:57:09,040 project. Um so the reality is their needs right now are to have a separate 1423 01:57:06,560 --> 01:57:13,520 emergency management um defensive tactics and classroom training 1424 01:57:10,639 --> 01:57:18,560 functions. Um having sort of a dualpurpose space that creates a 1425 01:57:15,760 --> 01:57:22,320 training classroom. Um but also provides for an area where you can roll out some 1426 01:57:20,159 --> 01:57:27,040 mats and do some of that DT training is a pretty um I would say widely used 1427 01:57:25,119 --> 01:57:30,800 model right now throughout Minnesota. Just be able to not have to double up 1428 01:57:29,360 --> 01:57:34,960 square footage. you're creating a whole separate like let's say wrestling room 1429 01:57:32,800 --> 01:57:38,719 and meeting room and this way you can kind of do both if you've got those mats 1430 01:57:36,719 --> 01:57:42,320 that can kind of roll up. So I think that was a good idea that we talked 1431 01:57:40,159 --> 01:57:46,560 about with them to do that combined and doesn't really have any square footage 1432 01:57:44,639 --> 01:57:52,239 effect u but then also creating some existing space um for uh the needs for 1433 01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:56,800 cubicles and and an emergency management office that was separated from that 1434 01:57:54,000 --> 01:57:59,920 area. So really, they can do most of that within the space that there that is 1435 01:57:58,719 --> 01:58:04,159 there now, which is why the square footage doesn't change. Um, it would 1436 01:58:01,920 --> 01:58:07,760 just require some additional remodeling and adding some walls and things like 1437 01:58:05,840 --> 01:58:12,239 that. So, it could be done pretty modestly. Again, if something were to 1438 01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:18,199 change with that overall square footage in the future, this would need to be 1439 01:58:14,320 --> 01:58:18,199 replaced with something else. 1440 01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:28,560 And then lastly, um, as we said, I don't know that there was a, um, huge push to 1441 01:58:26,639 --> 01:58:33,520 change anything with human services, but at the same time, um, we kind of 1442 01:58:30,960 --> 01:58:36,880 advocated to look at it only because they're connected to all these other 1443 01:58:34,960 --> 01:58:39,920 spaces. And if we were going to talk to all those other departments, only made 1444 01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:44,719 sense to have them be a part of this. and we knew if there was going to be 1445 01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:49,760 some accommodation in 15 to 20 years, we don't want to ignore that and not have 1446 01:58:46,560 --> 01:58:54,719 that be a part of this process. Um the reality is if you start to look at the 1447 01:58:51,599 --> 01:58:58,800 growth that they've seen um historically and potentially project out what some of 1448 01:58:57,119 --> 01:59:02,159 those programs might be added in the future, there's definitely some square 1449 01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:07,760 footage added and most of that is going to be staff space. Now, I think um the 1450 01:59:06,080 --> 01:59:11,760 five of you, probably even more so than me, see all the changes that happen 1451 01:59:09,599 --> 01:59:17,199 within social services depending on what federal or state programs come in and 1452 01:59:13,760 --> 01:59:21,760 out all the time. Um but it's hard to really predict that you're going to 1453 01:59:18,480 --> 01:59:25,280 shrink. Um it's easy to try to plan for that. You probably might need some 1454 01:59:23,119 --> 01:59:30,719 additional square footage in the future. Um that just seems to be the history. 1455 01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:33,440 And so we kind of um talked through the different programs that could 1456 01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:37,199 potentially be changing for the ones that they can see right now on the 1457 01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:42,800 horizon. Um but then certainly they've got some predictions about okay in 10 1458 01:59:40,000 --> 01:59:47,520 years we've added five people so let's at least plan for four or five people in 1459 01:59:44,800 --> 01:59:51,440 the next 10 years. So some of this is knowing what's happening in the future 1460 01:59:49,440 --> 01:59:55,280 and some of this is making an educated guess knowing what could potentially 1461 01:59:53,119 --> 02:00:00,320 happen to this department. I would say that's true for all of these groups. Um, 1462 01:59:57,840 --> 02:00:05,360 and that's why at this 5-year mark when you hit that, uh, it would make sense to 1463 02:00:02,480 --> 02:00:09,840 go back to this planning exercise and say, okay, are we still at the same mark 1464 02:00:07,840 --> 02:00:14,400 that we thought we were or do we have to sort of readjust the plan? Now, it might 1465 02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:19,520 mean that you probably have a good idea of what you wanted to do within that 15 1466 02:00:16,560 --> 02:00:23,920 to 20 years. um but it could be modified potentially with more real time data 1467 02:00:21,679 --> 02:00:28,960 based on that fiveyear those five-year numbers. So it isn't to say that it 1468 02:00:26,880 --> 02:00:32,080 wouldn't change or wouldn't change. It's just a good idea always I would say to 1469 02:00:30,800 --> 02:00:37,360 look back at that and make sure that you're not off the mark. Um for human 1470 02:00:35,199 --> 02:00:41,760 services again private office for income maintenance supervisor 1471 02:00:39,599 --> 02:00:46,639 three to four shared spaces for hoteling work points again they're continuing to 1472 02:00:44,159 --> 02:00:50,880 look at doing remote working and so we weren't going to change that and just 1473 02:00:48,239 --> 02:00:55,599 add a bunch of offices continuing using that model but knowing that they do 1474 02:00:52,719 --> 02:01:00,159 still needed landing pad sometimes uh and then monitoring equipment to 1475 02:00:57,119 --> 02:01:05,679 visitation rooms in the LACE basement um and allow limited growth capacity for 1476 02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:09,119 child production and adult service. So, there's just some modest growth in all 1477 02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:14,960 these different departments. But again, when you're looking at staff space and 1478 02:01:10,960 --> 02:01:20,080 meeting rooms, it does jump from 13,700 up to about 17,000 square ft. So, the 1479 02:01:18,159 --> 02:01:23,840 staff numbers are really more so what impacts that than anything else along 1480 02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:28,080 with, like I said, some additional conference rooms and things like that. 1481 02:01:25,840 --> 02:01:34,639 » I would probably additionally highlight the next four points. Um 1482 02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:38,159 the uh improve staff entry and separation from public circulation and 1483 02:01:36,400 --> 02:01:43,119 resolve lobby privacy and restroom conflicts. That's just 1484 02:01:40,560 --> 02:01:46,560 poor design, you know, and and I think everybody knows that that was designed 1485 02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:52,239 to be one thing and then it was made into another thing and just kind of made 1486 02:01:48,320 --> 02:01:58,480 to work. Um and those are things that really wouldn't be done unless it was 1487 02:01:54,880 --> 02:02:03,440 part of a larger project. Um, but the one thing on here that that Michael and 1488 02:02:01,119 --> 02:02:06,400 I have talked about is possibly going through and doing a a facelift on the 1489 02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:11,520 break room, which would actually have pretty significant impact on morale over 1490 02:02:08,800 --> 02:02:18,360 there. So, um, I might be putting that on the 28 plan, 1491 02:02:14,239 --> 02:02:18,360 but these these are all 1492 02:02:18,480 --> 02:02:26,880 this this space hasn't been designed. It's just evolved over time. And um and 1493 02:02:25,280 --> 02:02:32,880 there's there's ways where it could be done it could be done better, but we 1494 02:02:29,920 --> 02:02:39,119 have the stairways and the elevator all dump into the same place and the 1495 02:02:34,320 --> 02:02:43,440 employees and the and the um um clients are all in the same pl in the same 1496 02:02:40,960 --> 02:02:47,360 spaces and it's just not very well controlled. So it is something worth 1497 02:02:45,679 --> 02:02:51,040 considering. Um he's just the messenger when he's 1498 02:02:49,679 --> 02:02:55,040 saying that we're projecting for additional staff over the five and 10 1499 02:02:52,719 --> 02:02:58,320 year period. He's just doing math. He's not making a programmatic decision. So, 1500 02:02:57,520 --> 02:03:03,080 » thanks. >> Don't [laughter] don't hold that against 1501 02:03:00,080 --> 02:03:03,080 him. 1502 02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:11,440 » So, as we look at, you know, really what are the the next steps in this is, you 1503 02:03:08,639 --> 02:03:16,480 know, how can we meet, as Jonathan said, the five-year the short-term needs, you 1504 02:03:14,000 --> 02:03:19,920 know, Mark probation's a a good example of that. Is there something that we can 1505 02:03:18,000 --> 02:03:26,080 do there for renovations in the short term that are going to meet the needs 1506 02:03:21,520 --> 02:03:33,040 and and not cost a ton? Um, and then what are that what is that right 15 to 1507 02:03:29,119 --> 02:03:39,440 20 year plan? Can we renovate the existing spaces that are there and fit 1508 02:03:36,080 --> 02:03:44,800 everybody? Do we need some additions or does it look like we demo and 1509 02:03:42,480 --> 02:03:50,719 reconstruct kind of that connection point between 1510 02:03:47,599 --> 02:03:57,280 the current government center over to the LEC? So, those are all options that 1511 02:03:55,040 --> 02:04:02,400 we're going to be exploring and bringing back to you folks just for reference and 1512 02:04:00,159 --> 02:04:08,159 for knowledge. So you'll have each kind of one of those stepping points as you 1513 02:04:06,000 --> 02:04:13,440 look to the future. Again, you're not making any decisions on that. Just going 1514 02:04:10,400 --> 02:04:19,760 through what is the right long-term plan for these areas of our facility that are 1515 02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:25,599 behind me here. So, >> so we've talked about this for a number 1516 02:04:22,560 --> 02:04:30,400 of years and if we could spend $250,000 and make probation the space that it 1517 02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:35,599 needs to accommodate that, we would do that because 1518 02:04:33,040 --> 02:04:39,119 their collocation between the courts and the law enforcement center and and 1519 02:04:37,599 --> 02:04:44,159 accessibility and convenience for everybody makes all kinds of sense. When 1520 02:04:41,920 --> 02:04:47,840 we were looking through this, we were really having a hard time. And you'll 1521 02:04:45,760 --> 02:04:53,280 see this when we program it out trying to carve out another 1,200 square feet 1522 02:04:50,480 --> 02:05:00,560 out of the existing building um either from jail pods or from the old Sallyport 1523 02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:04,880 or from some of the other spaces um gets to be more expensive than than just 1524 02:05:03,199 --> 02:05:11,280 moving walls was on the second floor when we did this. Um, and then thinking 1525 02:05:09,679 --> 02:05:16,000 about long-term needs of court administration. Well, we counties 1526 02:05:14,000 --> 02:05:22,000 another one of those unfunded mandates. We have to provide adequate space for 1527 02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:26,080 them. But at what point do we continue to 1528 02:05:23,840 --> 02:05:31,360 um dress up the old the old building and what at what point do we have to plan 1529 02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:37,199 for the long-term um long-term goal? We have a number on our capital plan pol 1530 02:05:35,520 --> 02:05:41,679 capital plan projects list. It's just outside of the 10-year horizon, right? 1531 02:05:38,960 --> 02:05:46,239 We we've identified that $18 million project and just put it out there just 1532 02:05:43,520 --> 02:05:50,560 looming just off the edge of the page. And um 1533 02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:55,440 and and and we know that that's potentially the case. What I will say is 1534 02:05:53,360 --> 02:05:59,520 is short of the board wanting to add a million and a half dollars to debt 1535 02:05:56,800 --> 02:06:05,040 service to what we currently have, we have to wait till 2034, 1536 02:06:02,480 --> 02:06:08,639 2035 before we could consider something like that because that's about the point 1537 02:06:06,800 --> 02:06:14,400 in time we could refinance the debt we just took on and fold in some 1538 02:06:12,080 --> 02:06:18,880 additional. So, this is a really good time to be doing a 10-year plan because 1539 02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:22,719 we're or a 20-year plan with this kind of forgotten space in the middle because 1540 02:06:21,199 --> 02:06:27,679 financially we're not in a position to do anything other than this background 1541 02:06:24,480 --> 02:06:33,599 work and kind of identify priorities and figure out how it fits into a long range 1542 02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:38,960 financial plan. there are going to be, if nothing else, 1543 02:06:35,920 --> 02:06:42,480 um, you know, millions of dollars worth of infrastructure needs on those old 1544 02:06:40,560 --> 02:06:47,679 buildings just to make them continue to work beyond the next 5 to 10 years. And 1545 02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:52,400 that's one of the points that argues in favor of potentially doing a remodel or 1546 02:06:49,840 --> 02:06:55,920 even a a replacement of some of those spaces. 1547 02:06:54,239 --> 02:06:59,920 And somebody asked me the case, well, what do you do with courts? How do you 1548 02:06:57,119 --> 02:07:04,400 displace them? And and I I just get this idea the way that ICS did the last 1549 02:07:02,400 --> 02:07:08,719 project for us that we could treat the old jail and the court space as separate 1550 02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:14,159 spaces. Um demolish one, build one, relocate, 1551 02:07:12,159 --> 02:07:19,760 demolish the other one, build that other one, and then, you know, complete it. It 1552 02:07:16,480 --> 02:07:25,360 wouldn't be a 24 to 30month project. It'd be a 36 to 40month project to do it 1553 02:07:22,639 --> 02:07:30,960 that way. Um, but that's how we would accommodate that without anybody 1554 02:07:26,960 --> 02:07:34,560 actually being displaced. Um, just from a guess 1555 02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:37,040 and you saw in the old in the pictures you can see that we definitely have two 1556 02:07:35,840 --> 02:07:42,239 different buildings there that were built at different times. So that's what 1557 02:07:39,760 --> 02:07:48,880 the we're interested in your comments, your questions, uh, thoughts about what 1558 02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:54,159 you want to see next. Um, and our the charge that I've given them is what 1559 02:07:51,280 --> 02:07:59,280 could we do within our existing annual capital project dollars that would make 1560 02:07:56,960 --> 02:08:02,880 it better? And we're going to come up with a short list. What could we do to 1561 02:08:01,280 --> 02:08:07,199 actually make the space more usable than it is now, which is that middle piece, 1562 02:08:05,280 --> 02:08:11,199 which is going to be we're going to find out it's going to be more expensive, I 1563 02:08:08,639 --> 02:08:14,880 think, than than the good it will produce. 1564 02:08:12,639 --> 02:08:19,119 Um, but that's that's the goal is to bring back those things in more detail 1565 02:08:16,480 --> 02:08:23,679 than than the general comments we've made. So, if you have questions about 1566 02:08:21,040 --> 02:08:26,920 the process to this point, Mark's got any comments. 1567 02:08:28,639 --> 02:08:37,679 » Yeah. Uh, one question. It appears from from a potential design that there will 1568 02:08:34,800 --> 02:08:44,079 be two conference bait conference rooms pretty close to each other. one 1569 02:08:39,920 --> 02:08:47,760 probation, one attorney. I mean, can can things be streamlined a little 1570 02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:53,019 bit so the lights will be on in one room a little bit longer? 1571 02:08:50,719 --> 02:08:55,679 » Maybe. [laughter] 1572 02:08:53,760 --> 02:09:00,880 I haven't designed anything yet. So, >> it's like using a piece of equipment 1573 02:08:57,119 --> 02:09:05,679 that when so uh solid waste was here, you know, that that that skiitter being 1574 02:09:02,719 --> 02:09:10,480 used for more than one item. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean on once we start kind 1575 02:09:07,760 --> 02:09:13,679 of putting the puzzle pieces back together again here, you know, we strip 1576 02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:17,040 it all apart and we see what the overall is and then when we start trying to 1577 02:09:15,199 --> 02:09:20,800 build it back up again, if we find that there's those overlaps, then we need to 1578 02:09:19,119 --> 02:09:24,719 go back to those departments and say, can you share this space? And the answer 1579 02:09:23,199 --> 02:09:29,119 is either yes or no. And if the answer is no, there's usually compelling reason 1580 02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:33,119 as to why they can't. A lot of it comes down to security and safety. Uh but 1581 02:09:31,679 --> 02:09:38,560 certainly those are things that we would vet through Jeff and potentially, you 1582 02:09:35,360 --> 02:09:42,239 know, other committee efforts uh to get to the right number. But yeah, we 1583 02:09:40,400 --> 02:09:46,159 wouldn't ignore those kind of overlap pieces. 1584 02:09:44,560 --> 02:09:50,400 » We want to make sure it's efficient as well and getting used as much of the day 1585 02:09:48,480 --> 02:09:54,719 as it can be. You know, >> empty spaces is not good use of money. 1586 02:09:54,159 --> 02:09:58,320 » So, >> so we've got all those functions now, 1587 02:09:56,639 --> 02:10:03,040 but the attorney's over here and probation's over there and courts over 1588 02:10:00,079 --> 02:10:06,400 here. there's no adjacency to them. If you put those adjacent spaces in the 1589 02:10:04,880 --> 02:10:10,800 middle, they could be much more easily shared. Um, but at the same point in 1590 02:10:09,199 --> 02:10:19,360 time, when the attorneys are saying, "We need a space that is kind of like our 1591 02:10:13,520 --> 02:10:23,199 space for our this size," um, that's, you know, 1592 02:10:21,119 --> 02:10:27,040 that's something that's hard to share. But when they talk about needing 1593 02:10:24,560 --> 02:10:30,400 interview rooms for and private rooms for families and consultation, those are 1594 02:10:28,960 --> 02:10:34,239 things that can be shared with courts on a calendar. You know, right now we have 1595 02:10:32,320 --> 02:10:37,599 three small we had two two small rooms downstairs and we divided into three. 1596 02:10:36,079 --> 02:10:41,280 Well, that gives us more capacity because typically you don't have more 1597 02:10:39,760 --> 02:10:46,239 than three or four people in a room like that. And if we had five or six of those 1598 02:10:44,639 --> 02:10:52,320 rooms instead of three and they were serving multiple functions, they would 1599 02:10:49,760 --> 02:10:56,960 probably be sufficient. um putting these all together. And yes, some of these 1600 02:10:54,639 --> 02:11:01,360 will blend into each other if we have an opportunity to program something where 1601 02:10:59,119 --> 02:11:04,599 the shared space is in the middle of all the users. 1602 02:11:08,960 --> 02:11:12,440 » Any other questions? 1603 02:11:12,560 --> 02:11:19,760 » Thank you guys. What's our next step in timeline? Do we know? Do we remember? uh 1604 02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:22,159 plan on coming back October with some additional options. 1605 02:11:21,520 --> 02:11:26,639 » Okay. >> So, probably see us again in October. 1606 02:11:24,800 --> 02:11:33,400 That probably won't be the final, but just another update for you folks as we 1607 02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:33,400 go through the process. 1608 02:11:33,440 --> 02:11:41,599 » Sounds good. >> Thank you all. Thank you. Appreciate it. 1609 02:11:39,840 --> 02:11:43,679 » Thanks for shifting the agenda for me, too. 1610 02:11:42,000 --> 02:11:47,760 » No problem. It timing worked out just fine. 1611 02:11:45,520 --> 02:11:51,520 » Yeah. >> Anything else, Jeff? 1612 02:11:49,440 --> 02:11:55,280 » Nothing. >> All right. Motion to adjurnn. 1613 02:11:53,760 --> 02:11:58,000 » I move. >> This is t second. 1614 02:11:56,639 --> 02:12:02,840 » All in favor? >> I opposed or journ. 1615 02:12:04,239 --> 02:12:10,960 » So, do we have general government? >> We are having a personnel committee 1616 02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:10,960 meeting.