1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:08,000 all right so types of flood damage flood history and future forecast so there's 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:12,799 two primary types of flood damage that we typically talk about um inundation 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:17,640 yeah I'm going to have to sit here it's going to be hard for you to do it Jen 4 00:00:14,679 --> 00:00:24,199 because so inundation the river comes up buildings get saturated basements fill 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:29,119 with sediment um it's a mess it's very traumatic very damaging um and expensive 6 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:35,600 for those that experience it right it's it's it's serious um damage the other 7 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:42,760 type of damage is erosion damage right the river banks a road the bed erods the 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:48,760 river maybe moves in its entirety and takes out anything in its path right so 9 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:54,399 inundation damage versus erosion damage one important thing to keep in mind is 10 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:59,239 that by far the more expensive damage to recover from is the erosion damage 11 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:02,120 that's where probably 90% well I shouldn't even throw percentages because 12 00:01:00,559 --> 00:01:06,320 I don't remember that number off my top of my head but it's where the vast 13 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:11,799 majority of the recovery dollars are spent dealing with erosion damage okay 14 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:14,799 roads Bridges structures fall into the river that sort of 15 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:21,640 thing okay so moving into a little history of Vermont's floods um National 16 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:28,520 Weather Service had their list of top five and 17 00:01:24,759 --> 00:01:32,560 23 we 23 flood got added to that going back to 1869 18 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:38,840 and spanning through 2023 um large scale Regional or large 19 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:43,240 scale you know nearly Statewide floods very expensive hundreds of millions of 20 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:50,880 dollars those are all um those dollars are are all adjusted for 20 21 00:01:46,759 --> 00:01:55,240 $22 um so very expensive point being that the flood history in Vermont's very 22 00:01:52,479 --> 00:01:59,960 long right flooding is not anything new right and damaging floods expensive 23 00:01:57,079 --> 00:02:05,320 floods are not anything new if we look more recently going back to 73 DEC the 24 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:11,360 Department of Environmental Conservation Rivers program compiled information on 25 00:02:08,959 --> 00:02:16,480 smaller scale flood events um as well as the bigger ones so we see between 1973 26 00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:21,840 and 2023 there were four large scale disastrous floods um three of those are 27 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:27,760 on that National Weather Service list that I just showed um the other one is 28 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:31,840 1976 uh which being despite the fact that it was Regional and very damaging 29 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:36,200 in Huntington Statewide didn't make the the top five most expensive or the top 30 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:39,879 six most expensive floods and then looking at smaller Regional scale floods 31 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:46,239 and these are all floods for which disaster disaster declarations were made 32 00:02:42,920 --> 00:02:50,640 Regional scale floods um between 73 and 2011 19 of those smaller scale floods 33 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:55,440 which works out to about one flood every two years on the regional scale so again 34 00:02:52,920 --> 00:03:01,840 flooding we have a long history we have very frequent um occurrences of floods 35 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,840 in in Vermont 36 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:13,840 the uh FEMA flood study list the floods in Huntington severe floods 1830 1858 37 00:03:09,599 --> 00:03:18,480 1927 36 38 71 which isn't one that I'm familiar with 73 and 76 and it notes 38 00:03:16,519 --> 00:03:22,280 that the 76 flood caused by Hurricane Bell resulted in much Road and Bridge 39 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:26,080 and personal property damage and I've heard that from folks in town that that 40 00:03:23,959 --> 00:03:30,319 was a severely or significantly devastating flood in Huntington um so 41 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:37,879 again just a little more on flood history um and what we know from um 42 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:45,599 forecasting of precipitation Trends uh climate change it's only going to get 43 00:03:40,239 --> 00:03:52,920 worse this graphic shows um that since 1958 the amount of precipitation falling 44 00:03:49,159 --> 00:03:58,799 as very wet uh or very heavy intense events uh has increased by 45 00:03:55,959 --> 00:04:03,560 74% so our storms are getting more intense more rainfall is falling in 46 00:04:01,159 --> 00:04:09,079 those intense storms and that's only going to increase uh here's a study in 47 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:13,599 science news that states that the extreme precipitation Northeast us to 48 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:18,239 increase by 52% by the end of the century so it's only going to get worse 49 00:04:16,280 --> 00:04:23,680 we're going to get more intense storms more events where large large volumes of 50 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:28,400 water are coming down the river the Gund Institute at UVM has a study out there 51 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:32,720 showing that property damage are expected to exceed 5. 2 billion over the 52 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:35,800 next 100 years right so it's there's going to be a lot more damage um I was 53 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,520 looking around today and I was seeing stuff from Europe that was essentially 54 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:45,000 saying the same stuff the UK and France um saying the same saying the same thing 55 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:49,600 right um so yeah these really large 100-year floods and greater are 56 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:54,600 happening much more frequently than we would think when by the name 100-year 57 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:58,680 flood right like yeah they're occurring a lot more frequently than once every 58 00:04:55,919 --> 00:05:01,240 hundred years um and we can talk about the white well it's 59 00:05:00,199 --> 00:05:05,800 because of what we're seeing with climate change for the most part um so 60 00:05:03,919 --> 00:05:13,039 now let's just shift gears a little bit and talk about River Dynamics and River 61 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:19,759 morphology and this concept of balance or equilibrium in our river 62 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:23,960 systems so we talk about if we're going to talk about how Rivers move and erode 63 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:28,120 and fill in we're talking really about the shape or the form or the morphology 64 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:31,520 of the river so the morphology of the river you know we talk about the shape 65 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:35,840 of the cross-section the shape of the meanders as the stream moves down the 66 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:40,199 valley we talk about the slope of the channel or the 67 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:44,479 profile um and we talk about bed form so we're just really describing the shape 68 00:05:42,199 --> 00:05:44,479 of the 69 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:53,840 river so one thing to note is that the shape or the morphology of the river um 70 00:05:52,240 --> 00:06:00,199 whether it's really Meandering or straight really uh narrow with Ripples 71 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:05,080 and dunes versus broad wider with steps and pools that that 72 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:08,160 morphology is as described by the cross-section slope and bed form 73 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,919 playform is a reflection of the valley typ right so you know we all know if we 74 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:14,800 go up into brush Brook and it's going to get Steep and narrow and the riv going 75 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:18,000 to be straight and steps and it's going to have steps and pools and then down 76 00:06:16,479 --> 00:06:21,639 here in the broader Valley the Huntington Main St Valley the river 77 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:28,479 Meander a bit more and it has more like riffle pool bed form um so the river is 78 00:06:25,479 --> 00:06:33,160 a is the is the reflection of the of the valley morphology 79 00:06:31,039 --> 00:06:38,240 and the way the river behaves or moves over 80 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:42,400 time is a reflection of the inputs to the River from that Valley or the 81 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:47,800 Watershed right so we have sediment inputs we have we have rain inputs we 82 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:52,960 have wood inputs as trees get recruited into the river um so these inputs are 83 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:57,319 going to as they change the river will change in response and I'm talking like 84 00:06:55,360 --> 00:07:02,400 you know long-term sort of trends like change over 20 you know 100 years as the 85 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:08,360 climate change the river is going to change um as we remove you know as we 86 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,800 expose soils the sediment regime is going to change the delivery of 87 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:13,960 sediments the river is going to change and the river is going to respond to 88 00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:20,800 that you showed that the Huntington is that bottom form but I'm pretty sure 89 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:28,960 there's no part of the Huntington River that's less than .1% 90 00:07:24,639 --> 00:07:33,199 gradient uh is 1% 0.1% right1 but the bottom one is .1% Max yeah which would 91 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:36,120 mean most of the huntingon would be in the next level above that yeah this one 92 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:41,680 right here this one right yeah yeah so so 93 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:45,120 meanders and riffles and pools yeah probably no places in Huntington where 94 00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:49,800 you have where you have Dune Ripple bed forms or that severe me yeah that you 95 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:55,800 don't have an e type sh yeah you're right yep so yeah this one 96 00:07:52,680 --> 00:08:00,000 here all right so so what you know how do we think about the river and its its 97 00:07:57,919 --> 00:08:03,280 movements um over time time as it responds to these different uh these 98 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:09,080 different input changes there a Hydraulics engineer back 99 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:14,800 in I think it was like the 50s by the name of Emory Lane came up with the idea 100 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:19,120 of describing this all um in terms of a balance and in terms in terms of balance 101 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:24,560 and and it's a it works pretty well so here's how this works right Rivers 102 00:08:22,479 --> 00:08:31,159 there's this there's this flux or this this balance this this constant dance 103 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:38,760 between the power of the water in the river system and the resistance of that 104 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:44,279 River Channel um to that power okay so if you have equilibrium if you have 105 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:49,959 balance the river maintains its morphology its depth that's with um it 106 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:54,560 doesn't fill in and it doesn't erode and get larger right and that's what we're 107 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:58,880 managing for that's what we're trying to manage for that's what the policy of the 108 00:08:56,279 --> 00:09:03,519 state of Vermont managed for if you look at River Management policy the word 109 00:09:01,279 --> 00:09:08,160 equilibrium is there a lot that's because this is the most stable 110 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:11,560 condition that we can achieve right it's equilibrium it's all about River 111 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:15,680 stability we don't want our Rivers we want to minimize the amount to which 112 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:21,040 rivers are moving around side to side right and damaging human Investments so 113 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:26,079 we're managing for equilibrium if there's too much 114 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:31,279 resistance which which is partly made up by the amount of material in the channel 115 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:37,279 it over Powers the flow power and the channel fills in right pretty 116 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:42,839 simple okay conceptu pretty simple if the power of the flow over 117 00:09:40,519 --> 00:09:48,560 time gets greater than the resistance is able to resist you get excessive erosion 118 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:53,279 right you get the channel down cutting deepening and you get the channel 119 00:09:50,279 --> 00:09:53,279 widening 120 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:01,680 okay so let's look a little bit more more detail at these factors at play 121 00:09:58,959 --> 00:10:06,519 here in the balance so on the power side power is made up by slope of the channel 122 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,959 and depth of the water and of course depth of the water has a lot to do with 123 00:10:08,839 --> 00:10:13,920 how much water is actually in the channel of volume right when we have a 124 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:17,720 high flow event the water's deep when we have a low flow event the water's 125 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:21,839 shallow okay but depth and slope really are the the influencers on stream 126 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:30,160 power so depth is a plays a role in power because if you think about it 127 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:39,560 every six every every cubic foot of water weighs 62.4 lbs so as you get one 128 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:43,639 foot stacked on another foot stacked on another foot you're adding 62 PBS to 129 00:10:41,519 --> 00:10:48,800 that square foot of surface area of the bed and those gravels and cobbles that 130 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:54,560 make up that bed and as that water slides across the bed or flows across 131 00:10:51,399 --> 00:10:58,519 the bed it's dragging that material so the more depth the more weight you have 132 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:05,040 bearing down the more material gets moved that power doing work on the 133 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:11,360 channel right so depth equals power okay so this is where the idea of the flood 134 00:11:07,399 --> 00:11:16,880 plane or the flood plane um becomes really important in moderating the depth 135 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:20,519 or governing the depth of flow in the channel when you have a channel that's 136 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:25,160 well connected to its flood plane and what I mean by that is that the banks of 137 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:29,680 the channel are pretty low you have a high flow come through and that flow 138 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:34,240 gets to the top of the bank but then it gets out onto the flood plane and it 139 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:37,760 can't continue to build up deeper and deeper because it's being absorbed by 140 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:41,720 the width of the flood plane right it's got to fill that entire flood plane so 141 00:11:39,519 --> 00:11:46,120 the rate of increase in depth as soon as you get over the top of the bank really 142 00:11:43,079 --> 00:11:51,079 drops off and depth is governed and power is governed right that's the flood 143 00:11:49,079 --> 00:11:55,760 plane is the energy dissipation it's a blowoff valve for the river system right 144 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:59,560 the water gets up there it spreads out there's roughness elements whether it's 145 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:04,720 whether it's you know corn stocks or trees or whatever it is grass it all 146 00:12:02,639 --> 00:12:09,320 works to slow the water down over this really broad area spreading out that 147 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:12,800 energy across a much broader area therefore limiting really reducing the 148 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:19,079 amount of work that's done in any one spot on the contrary when we have rivers 149 00:12:16,079 --> 00:12:23,839 that are what we refer to as in size I.E their banks are really tall and that 150 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:27,959 same flood event or that same flow event comes through it doesn't get out on the 151 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:34,839 flood plane because that channel is so big it contains all of the flow now you 152 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:40,440 have that really deep flow right 62 P 62 lb 153 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:45,920 124.80 you know pounds bearing down on every square foot of the bed dragging 154 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:50,160 and scraping that material eroding that channel you have a lot of power a lot of 155 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:55,000 work being done so that's the importance of the flood plane connection and having 156 00:12:52,279 --> 00:13:01,120 lower Banks and that's the problem with Channel 157 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,120 incision everybody good so far 158 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:09,920 so this is why a lot of people will say you know if you have structures getting 159 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:14,279 wet and you resort to dredging the channel next to that 160 00:13:12,199 --> 00:13:18,959 structure what you're doing is taking that pressure Leaf Val away from that 161 00:13:16,079 --> 00:13:22,760 channel putting all that power onto the bed and you get you know you get 162 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:28,079 downward erosion get to erosion and all of a sudden your flooding problem turns 163 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:31,760 into an erosion problem and the erosion problem is much more expensive to deal 164 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:41,079 with all right so still talking about the terms involved in streem power the 165 00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:44,959 other one is slope right I said slope and depth are the two factors in in 166 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:49,519 generating power slope is a factor simply because 167 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:54,440 the steeper you are the more normal you are to the pull of gravity so the water 168 00:13:51,399 --> 00:13:58,800 is influenced more strongly right so really the the way that humans have 169 00:13:57,399 --> 00:14:03,120 affected the slope of rivers for the most part is to straighten them right if 170 00:14:01,079 --> 00:14:07,720 you have a river that starts at Point a or a reach of river at from point A to 171 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:12,800 point B and let's say the elevation is 875 down to 172 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:17,279 850 this Meandering river is much longer right it's it's more horizontal distance 173 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:22,000 so it's flatter than the straight Channel which is shorter you get a 174 00:14:18,839 --> 00:14:25,639 higher slope okay so this is what why you know when we straighten rivers and 175 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:29,560 we've done a lot of this historically in Vermont I don't think we straighten 176 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:35,600 Rivers as dramatically as we used to but we used to and we really increased the 177 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:41,240 amount of energy power and triggered a lot of river and stability that way okay 178 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:45,240 um so now let's Rec covered power now let's look at the resistance side um in 179 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:50,680 the resistance we basically have roughness of the channel and then the 180 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:56,480 amount of sediment to dissipate or to absorb the energy suck up the energy of 181 00:14:52,880 --> 00:15:01,160 the flow um so on the resistance of the channel we have things like bed forms 182 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:05,600 right these steps and pools they cause the water to turn and Tumble you get 183 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:10,480 white water white water is simply the burn expenditure of energy so those 184 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:15,440 roughness elements sap the sap the flow of its energy meanders whenever the 185 00:15:13,399 --> 00:15:20,000 water has to go around a meander band it gets put into this helical flow pattern 186 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:25,040 and it scour the bed and it drops the deposits on the point bars all of that 187 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:29,560 turning and and and and erosion of the bottom that all saps the river of its 188 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:34,759 energy meanders are great energy dissipators or forms of 189 00:15:32,319 --> 00:15:39,160 resistance to the to the power of the channel gravel bars themselves are 190 00:15:37,199 --> 00:15:42,920 resistance because the river has to pick that up anytime the river has gravel 191 00:15:41,199 --> 00:15:47,319 that it picks up and carries it's burning energy picking up that gravel 192 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:51,920 instead of burning energy eroding a bank somewhere else so the gravel that's in 193 00:15:49,399 --> 00:15:58,240 the channel is a source of roughness or resistance that's going to sap the river 194 00:15:54,279 --> 00:16:02,480 of its energy large wood is a form of re of roughness I know large wood is also 195 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,279 can create a lot of problems for our infrastructure but let's put that aside 196 00:16:03,959 --> 00:16:11,360 for a second and just recognize that it is a form of roughness it traps a lot of 197 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:17,360 sediment that otherwise would make it Downstream and it slows water okay so it 198 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:22,800 burns energy in the river channel it's just another roughness element so that's 199 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:25,600 it on the concept of equilibrium you have power on one side you have 200 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:29,800 resistance on the other side we're trying to manage for equilibrium so that 201 00:16:27,759 --> 00:16:35,399 we have rivers that are as as least erosive as possible Shane maybe 202 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:43,319 you'll go into it later but the the impact of armoring banks mhm will you be 203 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,319 disc we talk about that later yeah okay 204 00:16:44,519 --> 00:16:54,600 sure okay so I'm GNA jump I can't is that that clock's that clock's 205 00:16:52,079 --> 00:16:59,480 not I know we had a little mishap here but I didn't think it took 206 00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:01,600 that5 so I'm done well you 207 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:11,000 can all right so just want to talk about the long history of Channel management 208 00:17:09,559 --> 00:17:16,319 and this isn't just Vermont it's just not North America it's Global right it's 209 00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:21,640 Global um so what we do as humans it's it's intuitive to us to to try to 210 00:17:19,559 --> 00:17:27,079 control these systems so that we can use the surrounding Landscapes um for 211 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:31,720 different land uses but point is is that you know when the when the fur Trappers 212 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,679 came through kind of before European settlement I guess technically that's 213 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:38,640 before settlement the fur Trappers came through they eradicated or they they 214 00:17:36,679 --> 00:17:42,320 took out all the beaver right so then all those beaver dams failed it's as 215 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:47,480 some estimates have beaver dams at one Dam every hundred yards on per you know 216 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:52,320 along a stream before that before that happened um so just think of all those 217 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:56,880 roughness elements in the river clogging up the rivers right so that dramatically 218 00:17:54,760 --> 00:18:03,080 changed our our river systems the hydrologic cycle um 219 00:17:59,919 --> 00:18:08,600 Splash dams you know trees were there was a lot of snagging to clear the 220 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:12,880 streams for transport of logs during the logging era right so we and you know 221 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:19,159 that's all really well documented books like tall trees and tough Men by John 222 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:25,200 Pike um we use Dynamite to straighten cook streams steam shovels more recently 223 00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:30,960 you know we get in the diesel era right straighten dredge armor um burm right so 224 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:35,400 we have a long history of managing the channel managing 225 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:41,919 channels and we straighten the rivers as part of this and this confused between 226 00:18:38,559 --> 00:18:45,919 my tools here um so Rivers naturally want to meander fluid flowing through 227 00:18:44,039 --> 00:18:50,919 medium is going to meander the jet stream flowing across the atmosphere it 228 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:57,080 meanders right it's just the rules the pro the rules of of physics will cause a 229 00:18:53,880 --> 00:19:03,360 fluid flowing through medium to meander okay that's just that's just phys at 230 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:07,840 work whether it's lower the the third branch of the White River and lower 231 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:15,159 Granville along Route 100 or here in Huntington up in the 232 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,159 center Black Creek and 233 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:24,559 Fairfield or even large rivers like the wooki to accommodate i89 you know we've 234 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:28,240 done a lot of Channel straightening across throughout Vermont and again 235 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:32,640 throughout North America and around the world 236 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:37,120 so what's the response been the response has been is well described by this 237 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:41,440 channel Evolution model this is one of several Channel Evolution models it's 238 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:46,559 just a way to describe graphically what goes on but basically you start pre- 239 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:51,240 disturbance the channel well connected to its flood plane it can dissipate all 240 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:54,760 the energy of floods structure goes in the structure gets wet a few times we 241 00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:57,919 build the BMS to protect the structure that disconnects the River from the 242 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:01,840 channel we're in this now we're in this incision stage we have all that power 243 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:06,159 now working on the bed the channel and sizes until the banks get so high that 244 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:11,039 they start to fall in we get into this widening phase the the Investments come 245 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:15,080 into the river then there's so much gravel that comes into the river the 246 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:20,320 river starts to a grade starts to fill in the power starts to reduce we come 247 00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:24,640 back come back into balance as the all that sediment comes in and and saps the 248 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:29,799 river of its energy and then we get back to a stable condition where you have 249 00:20:27,159 --> 00:20:35,080 once again a river well connected to a broad flood plane all set within this uh 250 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:39,080 previous Valley in the me all that through all that we've lost a lot of 251 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,720 land mass and we've lost a lot of Investments um here are just some images 252 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:48,200 and I'm going to go pretty quickly since I'm so far behind but that's just that's 253 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:54,760 the stable stage stage one here's stage two um an example of stage 254 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:59,919 two that's an ins sizing Channel That's the widening phase and that's that's the 255 00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:04,400 um West Branch of the Little River and Stow that's the that's the upgrading 256 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:08,600 stage or restabilizing stage and then that's stage five where you've got this 257 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,080 you've got this the original flood plane up here high and you've got this lower 258 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:17,159 flood plane that's more recently developed in the channel um so that's 259 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:21,440 that's the full Evolution process uh let's see so the Department 260 00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:27,760 of Environmental Conservation um worked with Consultants 261 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:32,960 such as awood environmental to assess 5,000 miles of river and this is in the 262 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:37,360 field taking measurements using survey equipment and measuring equipment and 263 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:43,919 found that 75% of those 5,000 miles are in stages 264 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:47,600 one two one through three or sorry two through four of the channel Evolution 265 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:53,320 process they're disconnected from their flood plane they're very unstable and 266 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:56,679 they're just ripe to explode during the next flood event right they don't have 267 00:21:55,039 --> 00:22:00,159 that pressure relief valve in the flood plane anymore so I don't know if we can 268 00:21:58,799 --> 00:22:05,559 extrapolate that out I think there's 23,000 miles total in the state if you 269 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:10,760 can extrapolate that 75% does that mean 75% of all the river miles all those 270 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:15,120 23,000 miles are in sized or disconnected from their flood 271 00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:18,919 planes maybe I I don't know for sure it wasn't there wasn't that study wasn't 272 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:26,240 designed scientifically to be able to do that but maybe um so point is there's a 273 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:32,039 lot of unstable Rivers across the state and we find ourselves and this is 274 00:22:29,159 --> 00:22:39,360 the last slide we find ourselves sort of in the cycle um where we encroach upon 275 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:43,080 the river Channels with with structures the floods come through 276 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:48,080 create a lot of damage we respond with dredging armoring 277 00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:55,520 and bming and 10 15 years go by we start to 278 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:59,480 feel safe again and we further encroach upon the river Channel and then the next 279 00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:02,559 flood comes across and we have even more expensive damages next time so this is 280 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:09,080 just like this escalating um cycle of cost and risk and 281 00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:14,520 ecosystem damage that we're that we've kind of been in for many many many years 282 00:23:11,919 --> 00:23:21,039 decades um and with that I'll stop talking and let um the next presenter 283 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:21,039 come up 284 00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:33,240 [Applause] I'll just introduce myself now uh yeah 285 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:37,919 so I'm will Al aquatic habitat biologist with the Vermont fish and wildlife 286 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:43,039 department um and I my main focus is on fish and aquatic organisms but fish live 287 00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:48,240 in the same rivers that you all enjoy and so dealing with fish means dealing 288 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:51,840 with people and making making the world or making these Rivers better for fish 289 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,640 what we're hoping to do is actually make them better for everybody for the people 290 00:23:53,919 --> 00:24:02,559 living on the rivers the people enjoying them as well um I also want to start by 291 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:07,000 saying that I have no idea what you all have been through I understand it's it's 292 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:10,960 intense like I cannot relate to what you've what you've done what you've had 293 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:16,440 to go through and I'm not here to try and dictate or or prescribe anything but 294 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:22,200 what I do want to present is kind of the background why we have the regulations 295 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:26,000 in Vermont that we do so um understand that you know human health and safety 296 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:30,640 takes precedence we totally I understand that we respect that um but we Al 297 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:35,320 regulate it because we've as Shane pointed out we understand that our his 298 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:40,000 our history of Channel management actually has maybe made things worse in 299 00:24:37,679 --> 00:24:45,360 some cases so what we're trying to do is find a find a balance really between 300 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:51,679 balancing human health and safety with the other the other um uh issues that 301 00:24:48,679 --> 00:24:55,559 Rivers deal with other processes and the other um benefits that Rivers can 302 00:24:53,399 --> 00:25:00,760 provide and so um and I think the point all they Main 303 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:05,440 point being that what we're the approach that we take in Vermont is based on 304 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,720 really decades or even centuries of experience of trying to deal with 305 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:14,440 Channel River Management and so this is basically where we've what we've come up 306 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:19,840 with as the the best way to kind of balance that human health and safety 307 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:23,159 versus the natural processes um all right so just give you a little 308 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:27,320 background talk about um some of the habitat features and then if I have time 309 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:32,039 I'll talk about culs for fun M A Little Closer okay um so as 310 00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:37,320 Shane already talked mentioned so there's the the different types of 311 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:40,840 flooding um so inundation flooding is one of the one of the when we most when 312 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,960 we think about flooding generally it's inundation right so when when the river 313 00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:50,080 comes up it spills out onto the flood plane um this is actually a property not 314 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:57,399 here this is over in Morrisville um and ironically this uh this property is 315 00:25:54,080 --> 00:26:04,559 flooded um at least eight times in the last 40 gear years uh above the 100-year 316 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:09,840 flood event level so um you know as Shane was saying we're seeing these more 317 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:14,919 extreme events happening in Vermont um some of you may recognize this this is 318 00:26:11,399 --> 00:26:18,120 an example of that um the erosion so this is not this is not spilling out 319 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:24,360 onto the flood plane this is the the river Meandering and undercutting uh 320 00:26:20,919 --> 00:26:29,559 this is the um Hotel up in uh up in Hardwick these are all from 321 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:34,559 2023 by the way um there's another type of of damage 322 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:38,919 that uh I like I I think about and that's when channels start to move 323 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:43,600 material specifically particularly wood and and rocks right and that's another 324 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:47,600 thing that H that can that Rivers can do this becomes an issue when we have 325 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:52,039 undersized structures culs and bridges and that that material gets clogged 326 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:57,320 there um and can cause damage this is actually ironically this is planfield 327 00:26:54,559 --> 00:27:02,640 2023 and this same area just got devastated this year here and 328 00:26:58,919 --> 00:27:06,840 unfortunately it was much worse um and then and then just uh again the ENT siiz 329 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:10,799 infrastructure we're seeing it getting overpowered by these floods and just 330 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:16,919 wiping out our roads and so this is where this is when we begin to see 331 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:21,440 impacts to to people from the floods um uh a lot of us experience it you know in 332 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:27,360 this event when the roads are closed for a long time um and so how have we dealt 333 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:30,960 with it in the past and you know uh this is this is not that long ago this is 334 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:35,760 actually last year we basically put the Culvert back the same exact Culvert that 335 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:41,200 we had put it right back and just pay and just pave over it um and you know 336 00:27:39,159 --> 00:27:45,760 that's that's what we that's honestly what they do in 49 other states is they 337 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:49,840 just put the same structure back Vermont is fortunate in that we're able to put 338 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:52,960 back structures that are bigger after a flood but um historically this is what 339 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:57,039 we've done um and then as Shane said the other 340 00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:01,760 thing we've done is we've take we've gone into rivers with' with the um heavy 341 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:05,480 equipment and we've pulled out trees and boulders and things and we've um tried 342 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:12,840 to remove that material that we think is a threat um to to us uh here's another 343 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:18,080 example this is from Irene but as a result um what we end up as systems like 344 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:21,640 this this is kind of what people think is ideal and this is again after Irene 345 00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:27,919 what some of the rivers in Vermont looks like this is like Gilead Brook over in 346 00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:31,279 bethl um and so it's pretty obvious in here there's a they took a bulldozzer 347 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:35,279 and they basically just pushed all the material out of the channel um out of 348 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:39,440 the river and they actually put it up on the banks and the intention here is to 349 00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:42,799 get the water out of that system as quickly as possible right they don't 350 00:28:41,399 --> 00:28:46,880 want any of that flooding they don't want any of that erosion that we were 351 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:51,760 talking about the goal is to to get the power to get the stream out of there um 352 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:56,399 from a fish standpoint this is a desert you will not see a fish in a system like 353 00:28:54,440 --> 00:29:03,240 that um and the other uh so what we've seen 354 00:29:01,399 --> 00:29:08,000 after floods this is Fish and Wild Department going out and monitoring 355 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:11,840 streams and rivers after floods so where where we've got um rivers that look like 356 00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:16,480 this we see a large decline in the fish population and basically it just doesn't 357 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:20,600 recover um and so there's some systems where you know after Irene we haven't 358 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:24,440 seen the fish population recover we're actually going back in and trying to 359 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,640 restore that structure again where it's safe to do so where we don't think 360 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,799 there's a risk to human health and safety 361 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:35,120 um the alternative is where Rivers aren't managed at all where we basically 362 00:29:32,919 --> 00:29:39,320 are leaving the wood in place we're seeing the fish populations a small 363 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:44,120 decline um immediately after the flood but actually a recovery within 1 to 364 00:29:41,039 --> 00:29:49,559 three years the populations bounce back um and uh even it was ironic but 365 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:53,480 actually from some of the Anglers were actually hearing reports like last fall 366 00:29:52,159 --> 00:29:57,799 with some of the best fishing they've ever ever seen and that that's because 367 00:29:55,919 --> 00:30:02,120 we got actually these floods are are can be stimulating the fish populations you 368 00:29:59,919 --> 00:30:05,640 see a lot more material coming in you get insects and things coming in and the 369 00:30:04,039 --> 00:30:10,159 fish that are able to survive are actually um there's like a little boost 370 00:30:08,039 --> 00:30:15,360 in their production um and so that can help with the 371 00:30:12,039 --> 00:30:20,880 recovery um another issue is uh you know as Shane hit on WE we've been managing 372 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:28,120 these channels for probably over a hundred years and we developed our our 373 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:35,120 houses and our and our road and our infrastructures in a system that did not 374 00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:39,399 have rivers or sorry wood or trees also these channels were straightened and so 375 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:44,360 often we'll see communities that look like this where you have a historical CH 376 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:49,519 or Channel that's been straightened all the material has been removed from it 377 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:53,159 and then houses have been put on top now going back to what Shane was talking 378 00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:58,679 about rivers like to meander they like to move material now we've created a 379 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:04,320 conflict where the river is not able to to do its natural processes anymore 380 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:09,679 we've created a flood risk here right by by putting these properties in in that 381 00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:14,279 way of Where the River wants to go um and this unfortunately is what we've 382 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:19,039 seen in a lot of areas in Vermont um and the other thing that this 383 00:31:16,679 --> 00:31:24,679 has done is it's turned these channels into pipes so all that water going 384 00:31:22,399 --> 00:31:31,320 Downstream what it's what it ends up doing is it creates bigger problems for 385 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:36,480 for the people living Downstream so um uh you know the you know he's talking 386 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:42,159 about the the weight of of water basically one way to think of it is dump 387 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:48,880 trucks you know floated dump trucks full of water basically banging into the 388 00:31:45,639 --> 00:31:53,960 riverbank um at sometimes like 30 or 40 miles an hour for hours on end that is 389 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:59,480 what's happening during these floods it's massive massive amounts of power 390 00:31:56,639 --> 00:32:04,360 and the Damage that we' seen at least in last year and this year is just a 391 00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:08,320 testament to what what that water can do um and so what happens when we turn 392 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:13,320 these Rivers into pipes all right and so um so our 393 00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:17,960 regulations basically speak to how can we live with flooding um recognizing 394 00:32:15,919 --> 00:32:22,880 that it's going to occur it's it's a natural process um it may be getting 395 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:28,080 worse so what are the things that we can do um to try and live with it and so uh 396 00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:32,679 I'm going to be talking about this stuff we can do in the riparian area or that 397 00:32:29,919 --> 00:32:36,919 flood plane Zone the inst streams and then um 398 00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:41,720 Culver and so riparian so this is that flood plane area so again what what can 399 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:46,240 we do to help with that inundation and erosion risks 400 00:32:43,679 --> 00:32:52,120 um so historically what we've done is we've tried to burn and historically 401 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:55,880 again this is 2023 um you know so what we've done is we've tried to keep the 402 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:59,159 river off of our property we've either we've channelized the stream and we've 403 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:06,399 burned it um and as Shane said the the risk though 404 00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:11,880 is that now we've created a steeper more powerful stream which can increase the 405 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:16,399 amount of damage that we had and so that Meandering Channel as Shane said that 406 00:33:13,919 --> 00:33:21,519 can be more stable I want to emphasize that stable does not mean static it 407 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:26,240 doesn't mean it doesn't move around it will we will see erosion you will see 408 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:30,000 the channel Meander over time but basically it'll Meander within that 409 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:34,559 River what we call the river Corridor and the idea is you'll have less damage 410 00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:41,639 to um to other properties it'll also reduce the amount of water and power 411 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:44,880 Downstream um and so this actually a lot of people look at a picture like this 412 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:50,279 and they're like oh no that's in that's flooding that's a bad thing but there's 413 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:54,440 no no structures here there's no there's no development there's no infrastructure 414 00:33:52,360 --> 00:34:00,519 to me this is actually a flood plane functioning as it should so this is this 415 00:33:58,399 --> 00:34:04,600 what I'd like to encourage people is to actually see this as the desired 416 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:08,599 condition so what happens is now that we have water being stored on this flood 417 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:13,480 plane that's that's an area for it to spread out slow down and less water 418 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,480 going 419 00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:24,280 Downstream and we've seen a good example of this over in Otter Creek um so uh 420 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:29,440 Otter Creek the the channels there's the rotland is Downstream of menden Brook uh 421 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:34,639 prettyy steep um doesn't have much of a flood plane and so there's these two 422 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:41,079 graphs here oh I can let me give a pointer out um these two graphs show 423 00:34:37,839 --> 00:34:46,879 that flood water coming through uh this is during a tropical storm Irene and so 424 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:52,879 what we see in Rutland is the water's coming down um here's here's August 11th 425 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:58,200 18th 25th and then here's tropical storm Irene all that water basically hits rut 426 00:34:55,560 --> 00:35:02,400 Rutland all at the same time right so that's this massive wall of water coming 427 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:08,440 down to Rutland there's not anywhere for it to slow down or spread out that same 428 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:12,160 Water by the time it got to middleberry um was able to spread out in these kind 429 00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:18,240 of wetland areas this kind of flood plane and so same amount of water right 430 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:22,040 same river same amount of water but because it was able to spread out it 431 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:26,200 didn't get as high it didn't get as intense and so middleberry didn't have 432 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,280 the same amount of damage and so these Wetlands were credited with basic 433 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,920 basically saving those communities so Brandon Cornwall and and 434 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:42,800 middleberry um and uh and so what we're doing with in um Vermont is where where 435 00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:47,760 it's again where it's safe to do so where we can is we're trying to restore 436 00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:50,800 these flood planes and um including doing a lot of tree planting and so now 437 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:56,880 I'm going to talk about the importance of trees um to fish uh again because 438 00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:01,720 there's a lot of conflict between Tree Management 439 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,520 uh and and and River resources um and so we like to say fish grow on trees and 440 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:11,560 you can actually make a literal connection between trees and fish so um 441 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:15,319 let's see the fish eat the insects that come that eat the leaves that come from 442 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:19,680 the trees so you really can make a literal connection between the fish and 443 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:23,440 the tree the fish is derived from the tree 444 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:31,000 nutrients um but there's other things that we see too so uh the Bucko benefits 445 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:36,400 um I like to say but anyway so the temperature moderation so just these are 446 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:41,400 two different streams in in um uh we both like uh Granville for some reason 447 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:45,079 anyway so this is the White River uh so here's this is a channel that's not 448 00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:49,960 shaded it has it's pretty open this is on the first branch of the White River 449 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:54,839 and it gets up to about 70 or 80 degrees um in the uh Summer Time versus Alder 450 00:36:53,319 --> 00:37:00,040 Meadow Brook which is pretty shaded doesn't get above 70 and so what we see 451 00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:04,680 for Brook trout is they won't survive in in streams that get above 70 72° so we 452 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:09,119 don't see any brook trout in a stream like this but in these shaded rivers and 453 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:14,160 streams they're able to stay cool enough to to sustain our cold water fish um and 454 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:18,240 again that's because of the shading from the trees along the stream channel um 455 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:22,800 and this is important because uh in Vermont we're actually 456 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:26,680 seeing a rise in our our air temperatures and so this is from the 457 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:32,720 National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration Noah um Vermont's uh 458 00:37:30,319 --> 00:37:38,560 temperature going back to 1895 um and basically this line right 459 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:44,800 here is the mean temperature from uh during the um 20th century from 1901 to 460 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:51,160 2000 um and what we see this is this blue line is the trend between 1999 and 461 00:37:48,319 --> 00:37:57,800 2021 and what we see two things to take away in our in the last two decades the 462 00:37:54,839 --> 00:38:03,880 mean temperature is much warmer than it was historically and it's continuing to 463 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:09,000 increase right so we're seeing this Rising temperature is now now we're 464 00:38:06,359 --> 00:38:14,640 seeing this new threat to our aquatic resources um so again another important 465 00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:21,160 reason to keep try and keep our streams cool uh and then again the fish eat the 466 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:25,319 the um leaves which the uh and the bugs it's not just important for um for fish 467 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:32,119 but there's a lot of other animals that use the riparian area including beavers 468 00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:35,960 uh and and wood Turtles and and bats um and bald eagles and then they're also 469 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:40,480 important travel corridors for a bunch of other animals including moose bear 470 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:45,760 and deer and then there's the huge water quality benefit so it's not just um 471 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:50,480 habitat issues but water quality you can get water quality funding for tree 472 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:54,880 planting um and so here's just a nitrate removal with the width of the uh 473 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:58,440 riparian buffer um the the forested riparian buffer and this sediment 474 00:38:56,839 --> 00:39:03,160 removal and sediment is important because that's a lot of our phosphorus 475 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:07,040 is tied to sediment um so basically The Wider the the buffer the bigger water 476 00:39:05,319 --> 00:39:13,119 quality benefits that we're seeing um and so from a management Zone 477 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:17,040 perspective what we recommend is 100 fet on each side of a river the other thing 478 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:20,839 I'll point out is that smaller streams are more connected to the surrounding 479 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:24,599 landscape so there's actually a bigger benefit of maintaining a riparian Zone 480 00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:30,119 on those small streams um all right and then instream 481 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,960 Channel management so again historically what we've done um dredged and 482 00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:39,319 straightened we've removed the trees we've also um tried to engineer these 483 00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:43,880 stream channels um try and make the river do kind of what we want and what 484 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:48,800 we found is that these managed areas from a from a um fish standpoint this is 485 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:53,520 after tropical storm Irene we went in and looked at channels that were left 486 00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:58,680 unaltered and and ones that were altered and the the trout populations were were 487 00:39:56,319 --> 00:40:01,920 vastly uh reduced in those areas where were altered so basically where we we 488 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:08,000 created these fish deserts where the fish just weren't um just uh were no 489 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:13,760 longer able to to survive another issue with this dredging this ISS uh um that I 490 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:19,040 want to talk about is although although the dredging occurs at one site you 491 00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:22,760 basically you're creating um by removing that stream bed there by lowering the 492 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:26,960 stream bed there you're creating a domino effect because that that bed is 493 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:30,520 going to eventually fill in and that what's going to do is fill in with the 494 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:32,960 material that's just Upstream from it and that's going to fill in with 495 00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:36,880 material upstream and you end up with what's called a head cut right and so 496 00:40:34,839 --> 00:40:41,720 you're basically lowering the bed and that lowering is going to extend all the 497 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:48,640 way Upstream right and so what we're seeing is that by doing that you're 498 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:53,560 destabilizing the toe of the of the um the slope right so so Shane talked about 499 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:58,200 channel uh Evolution Channel widening and so these what we're seeing is these 500 00:40:55,160 --> 00:41:04,560 massive so slope failures are occurring not because of the power of the channel 501 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:09,760 the the flood or the um or any dredging happening near there 502 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:14,160 but B but what happened was dredging Downstream has destabilized the stream 503 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:20,480 all the way up here has lowered the channel up to this point and caused that 504 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:26,319 bank the toe of the bank the the this part to become unstable which has caused 505 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:30,800 the entire Bank to fail and so dredging can actually make things worse because 506 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:34,119 now you've got all these trees falling in right and so basically you've created 507 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:38,520 this cycle where you're going to have to continue dredging to remove these trees 508 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:42,680 but then that removing those trees is going to cause this bank to continue to 509 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:49,280 fail I have a quick question that may you don't know sure the difference of 510 00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:54,440 that happening because of the river versus maybe an inovation of a lot of 511 00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:59,240 water and the erosion from the deepness of can you tell the difference can I 512 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,240 tell the difference 513 00:41:59,319 --> 00:42:06,200 NE oh sorry the question was can we tell whether you know what's causing erosion 514 00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:13,319 like this these massive Mass bank failures when is it when is it caused by 515 00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:19,359 um either uh storm runoff or some kind of um water from up here versus 516 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:23,520 destabilizing the toe and um I think I mean there's definitely examples of both 517 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:28,240 and I I I personally don't know the the answer to that but I think for the point 518 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:34,000 of this talk I think it's important to acknowledge that destabilizing the toe 519 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:39,200 is a way that that can happen um so it's just something to be aware 520 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:45,520 of all right um and then just to go back to the uh the the benefits of the wood 521 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:49,520 in Stream So these log jams um so what we're finding is that these log jams are 522 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:54,240 basically where the fish are able to survive a flood so like I said there's 523 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:57,960 fish are able to survive these floods and it's because they have Refuge Behind 524 00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:02,160 These log jams um because they don't move they're big 525 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:06,079 enough to they're stable and and the fish uh basically just hunker down ride 526 00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:14,040 it out and as soon as it floods over they they um start uh eating again um 527 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:18,960 and the other benefit of these log jams is uh the flood water actually backs up 528 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:24,000 and and will spill out onto the flood plane so we're seeing a sediment like 529 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:29,000 this so again sediment where we're seeing our phosphorus um phosphorus is a 530 00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:33,440 Nutri ENT that's a a pollutant or there's too much of it in in the um 531 00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:37,400 Champlain Basin so we're trying to reduce the amount going in and so if we 532 00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:41,440 can get that phosphorus depositing on our flood planes that's actually helping 533 00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:47,559 our water quality and so these log jams are actually helping to store that those 534 00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:55,559 nutrients up here uh in sorry up here up in areas where it's um safe to do 535 00:43:51,359 --> 00:43:58,839 so um and then I will also say that uh fish and wildlife department thinks that 536 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:03,359 these trees are so important that we're actually going back and putting trees 537 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:08,680 back into channels where we where it's safe to do so and so we've created this 538 00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:13,480 um handbook on how to do it uh and what we've seen is that where log where we've 539 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:19,599 done these engineered log jams we've actually seen a 300% increase in the 540 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:24,160 biomass of brook trout um so again uh a really important function um the other 541 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:31,920 thing I'll and I'll talk about this a second but um what we're not seeing is 542 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:39,000 is a lot these uh um some of these culs uh actually let me let me talk about 543 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,000 this one next all right culs 544 00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:47,240 so again um historically culverts were designed to pass water they're they're 545 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:53,880 designed hydraulically they weren't designed to pass rocks and trees right 546 00:44:50,640 --> 00:45:00,800 so um but what we know is that rocks and trees are important part of uh 547 00:44:57,839 --> 00:45:05,839 of um what's what's transported during floods um and so now our streams our 548 00:45:03,319 --> 00:45:10,520 standards for sizing stream Crossing structures Bridges and culverts calls 549 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:14,160 for this one times bankful width size I won't go into what onetime bankful width 550 00:45:12,359 --> 00:45:18,599 means but just understand that it's bigger than what we've 551 00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:21,359 got um for the most part and we've actually gone out and looked at a bunch 552 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:24,720 of these structures we've assessed them all across the or not all them but a lot 553 00:45:23,119 --> 00:45:31,040 of them so we've actually looked at a lot of Cs across the state and um anyway 554 00:45:28,839 --> 00:45:37,520 a lot of them are are fish barriers uh but from a bankful width 555 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:42,480 standpoint um most of them more than 50% U pushing 70% of them are less than half 556 00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,240 of that bankful width that Channel width so there are a lot smaller than what we 557 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:52,720 think they should be what our current standard is um and so uh but we looked 558 00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:58,119 at new ones and a lot of them a lot of them look like this uh so these are ones 559 00:45:55,480 --> 00:46:03,440 that have been replaced by municipality and um what we did after the July flood 560 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:08,559 uh we actually went out and looked at about 60 culverts that were replaced to 561 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:12,720 that one times bank for withth standard um in areas that had been impacted by 562 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:18,200 flooding uh and what we found as examples like this so here's here's a um 563 00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:24,480 a trip to the jail branch over in uh orange and we had a replace cover here 564 00:46:21,839 --> 00:46:27,839 and and an old Culvert there and this is what the replace Culver looked like 565 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:34,160 after the flood basically you couldn't even see that it had been involved in a 566 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:41,040 flood um and this is a just Downstream um the covert had blown out um so this 567 00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:46,200 is a a sign that these the standards that we have in place are helping with 568 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:52,319 our flood resiliency um they're also helping with fish passage but that's um 569 00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:59,400 anyway that's another story just to understand that um what 570 00:46:55,960 --> 00:47:07,520 we're doing to help fish is also helping people all right um yes and there's 571 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:11,520 tradeoffs to to doing it again we're um we uh we recognize that there are 572 00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:15,839 going to be situations where we do need to do Channel management but that 573 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:21,880 channel management is not benign it it could have impacts Upstream Downstream 574 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:34,429 to to your neighbors um and to the other Aquatic resources things so 575 00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:34,429 [Applause] 576 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:43,720 all right um so I am uh my name is Aaron Worley um longtime Huntington resident 577 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:48,640 know most of you I think probably and um uh I'm also an ecologist and GIS analyst 578 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:52,480 with AOW environmental and we're a very small environmental consulting company 579 00:47:50,599 --> 00:47:59,200 here in Huntington and we also have two partners who live elsewhere in the state 580 00:47:54,720 --> 00:48:04,200 um and we do a variety of work um kind of ecologically related with wetlands 581 00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:11,040 and wildlife habitat and helping towns uh learn about their um their important 582 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:14,480 resources and identifying um things that might have implications for um 583 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:18,040 environmental permitting and all these sorts of things but one of the pieces of 584 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:23,960 work that we have done historically is look um is some of this River assessment 585 00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:31,200 work that Shane mentioned of those 5,000 uh miles of stream that were assessed uh 586 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:34,400 in Vermont um we did a few of them um so I'm going to talk about we some of that 587 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,200 work we did was right here in Huntington so I want to talk a little bit about 588 00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:43,119 kind of the big picture findings of what we came up with um out of that work and 589 00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:48,640 then I just want to um talk a little bit about kind of a local boy perspective I 590 00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:52,480 guess um and just some of the things that um you know I've observed over the 591 00:48:50,839 --> 00:48:55,559 years a little bit less scientific a little bit more anecdotal and I'm going 592 00:48:53,760 --> 00:49:00,480 to probably whip through things pretty quickly but um 593 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:04,480 uh so I'll jump right into the the stream geomorphic assessment piece so um 594 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:10,280 this work was done on the Huntington River Watershed in uh from kind of a 595 00:49:07,559 --> 00:49:17,119 range of years between 2004 and 2009 um it's this was um projects that 596 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:21,920 we started AR and Bell started uh uh working teaming up with 597 00:49:19,359 --> 00:49:28,000 some aquatic biologists at the National Wildlife Federation um the uh huntingt 598 00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:33,200 and conservation commission was uh sort of our sponsoring organization um 599 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:37,599 funding came from the Vermont agency of Natural Resources River Management 600 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:42,960 program and uh and then later ccrpc was involved with um putting together some 601 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:47,960 of these projects as well um there's kind of multi-stages or phases of these 602 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:51,400 uh stream geomorphic assessments um phase one is really kind of the starting 603 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:57,200 place and that's taking a really broadscale look at the whole 604 00:49:53,799 --> 00:50:02,160 Watershed um and kind of understanding that um that uh uh landscape setting 605 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:08,960 that Shane was talking about what's the what's the slope what's the valley 606 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:12,520 position uh kind of what's going on in a really broad scale most of that work is 607 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:17,920 done remotely it's not actually done on the ground we look at lots of mapping 608 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:23,760 resources um uh topographic uh maps and all that kind of 609 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:30,799 stuff better understand um kind of the landscape view of the Watershed 610 00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:37,760 uh move into phase two and that's where we actually get into the river um and 611 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:45,440 there's uh um this particular River was done in a few different sections the 612 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:50,440 first the first um area was roughly uh and this end of dugway Road up to um 613 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:54,240 Moody Road in Hanksville was kind of the first stretch of river that was done 614 00:50:52,960 --> 00:51:00,079 with this phase two assessment and that's literally walking um uh in the 615 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:03,640 river uh every inch of that River and doing a bunch of detailed measurements 616 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:08,319 collecting a whole bunch of data taking crosssections throughout that whole um 617 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:12,400 that whole run uh coming out of that Phase 2 in 618 00:51:10,839 --> 00:51:15,280 2005 we did a little bit of what's called corridor plan and project 619 00:51:13,839 --> 00:51:19,839 development and that's kind of distilling all that data down into what 620 00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:26,240 does that what does it mean how does it uh how does it reflect um what's 621 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:31,160 available what we have available to um either improve the situation or uh where 622 00:51:29,359 --> 00:51:38,319 is it already good um came back in 2007 later in 2007 623 00:51:36,359 --> 00:51:44,280 uh did the rest of the main stem wooki River up to the gorge uh through the 624 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:48,280 gorge up to the um the Huntington end of of dugway road then jumped up to 625 00:51:46,359 --> 00:51:52,839 Hanksville and did a few more reaches up there and then we also did a few of the 626 00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:57,200 uh lower reaches of some of the major tributaries the Texas Hill Brook Fargo 627 00:51:55,319 --> 00:52:01,440 Brook and brushing Brook all all got looked 628 00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:08,000 at um 2009 we also uh we did the the uh 629 00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:12,359 Culver inventory that Will was talking about I was looking at each and every 630 00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:16,079 Culver through this section bridge and Culvert taking very detailed 631 00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:23,200 measurements and evaluating their capacity to not only pass water but to 632 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:28,760 pass sediment and wood um and we also did some um more 633 00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:34,119 detailed what's called fluvial erosion Hazard mapping and that's developing a 634 00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:39,079 better understanding of the um of the boundaries of the corridor within which 635 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:45,640 you would expect the river to actually be 636 00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:51,920 migrating doing those meanders uh given uh relatively well we'll say relatively 637 00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:58,799 an unconfined situation so we have a lot of lateral constraints in the um in the 638 00:52:54,559 --> 00:53:04,680 corridor now homes Bridges roads all these things that impact where we're 639 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:09,480 going to allow the river to move and and erode uh and so that plays into comes 640 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:13,119 into play when we're looking at where uh the the river is how how the river is 641 00:53:11,720 --> 00:53:18,319 going to react to that and erode in other 642 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:22,160 places uh and then finally in uh in 2009 we followed this kind of this all up 643 00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:27,200 taking all of this data redoing the corridor planning coming up with a more 644 00:53:24,119 --> 00:53:31,680 comprehensive list of um of projects and doing a little bit of kind of U more 645 00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:35,520 final assessment that looked at the at the whole Watershed having done all of 646 00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:39,040 this these different pieces of work so I'm going to just talk about a few of 647 00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:43,680 the highlights this is all you know somewhat a long time ago at this point 648 00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:47,440 um I'm just going to talk about a few of the highlights of takeaways from that 649 00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,920 some of that work kind of how it relates to what some of these other guy what 650 00:53:48,599 --> 00:53:55,359 these other guys have said buffer conditions one of the pieces 651 00:53:52,559 --> 00:54:00,119 that we look at um probably not surprising to to many of you the um 652 00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:05,599 overall buffer conditions throughout the hington river aren't great um we had 653 00:54:03,359 --> 00:54:12,839 almost 40% of the assessed length um that's River length um with a a forested 654 00:54:10,119 --> 00:54:17,559 buffer of less than 25 ft wide um so when will was talking about 655 00:54:15,319 --> 00:54:23,079 those forested riparian buffers and the benefits that they bring to cooling the 656 00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:27,920 water and um and the the habitat and the um all those various bucket bucket 657 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:33,520 of benefits more we're we're a little bit 658 00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,520 hurting 659 00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:45,160 here um bank erosion 55% of the assess length was found to have a moderate or 660 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:50,040 high erosion rating on at least one bank and uh a good 20% on both 661 00:54:54,240 --> 00:55:00,720 Banks um I think it's it's may be interesting that the buffer conditions 662 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:05,040 don't always correspond directly with the bank erosion um there's there's 663 00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:10,839 other things at play here when we're thinking about uh I think there there's 664 00:55:07,559 --> 00:55:15,480 an assumption that oh bad buffers always means uh um bank erosion in that exact 665 00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:20,359 place but that's not necessarily the case Channel 666 00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:24,240 incision um and this is measured primarily with our with the 667 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:32,039 cross-section work that we're doing and um what we've came up with here is some 668 00:55:28,319 --> 00:55:36,760 88% of the assess length is showing some uh moderate to severe evidence of 669 00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:42,359 historic Channel incision so that's that down cutting bed loss of access to the 670 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:47,880 flood plane um Shane talked about the the channel Evolution model and kind of 671 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:53,079 where we are finding ourselves Statewide in that 2 three and four stage between 672 00:55:51,119 --> 00:56:00,160 inzing and stabilizing um and this is where the uh 673 00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:04,240 at least back in the early 2000s where the Huntington River shook out based on 674 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:09,240 the data that was collected 675 00:56:05,839 --> 00:56:15,839 um only about 6% of the length was active actually actively in sizing but a 676 00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:21,200 huge portion of it is actively was actively widening um so it's kind of 677 00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:28,079 moved through from that incision stage into stage three and we're seeing 678 00:56:24,359 --> 00:56:32,280 it a the the B grating and the um and the river moving 679 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:38,359 laterally uh no surprise I think right for most of us who who see this River um 680 00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:42,720 but 22% or so of the reaches are beginning that stabilizing process um I 681 00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:45,799 don't think they're probably very far down the road but they're starting to 682 00:56:44,079 --> 00:56:50,480 move out of that widening phase starting to stabilize a little bit doing less 683 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,480 lateral 684 00:56:51,079 --> 00:57:01,240 migration when we lose that flood plane access um 685 00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:07,039 and we don't have the uh we don't have the the the river is 686 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:13,599 not able to to get out and deposit its sediment and uh release the nutrients um 687 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:17,960 all that is uh moving Downstream in what we call a transport regime and what 688 00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:23,000 we're seeing in uh at least in this study was that some 65% of the reaches 689 00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:26,920 are converted to transport regimes when they normally 690 00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:31,920 would be uh uh in in an equilibrium stage they 691 00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:35,880 would be of course um kind of sediment in equals sediment out right but what 692 00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:40,520 we're seeing is that a lot of that sediment is just moving right 693 00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:46,720 through um I will spent a lot of time in this because Shane kind of hit hit on 694 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:50,960 the history pretty well um but I've um well I find this pretty interesting 695 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:54,680 just kind of from a local perspective I guess to kind of think at the think 696 00:57:52,839 --> 00:57:59,880 about some of the catastrophic floods that we're we've EXP experience in this 697 00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:04,640 Watershed and I think we have a tendency to think about um sort of what's 698 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:11,240 happening right now and don't really have the the um the the broad 699 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:14,599 perspective all the time um and what occurs to me is I start to look at some 700 00:58:12,839 --> 00:58:21,880 of these dates is that we're we've actually experienced a fairly 701 00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:26,440 regular um occurrence of what I'll call catastrophic floods in the Huntington 702 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:32,200 River Watershed and they're there been a lot of um kind of major floods 703 00:58:29,319 --> 00:58:35,039 throughout Vermont um that have that that haven't really impacted the 704 00:58:33,799 --> 00:58:40,760 Huntington River Watershed um but we had the uh I'll just 705 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:45,480 kind of kind of look at the last 100 years here we have we have the uh great 706 00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:50,720 New England hurricane which was pretty devastating in the Huntington River 707 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:54,480 Watershed in 1976 we had hurricane Bell and then this year we had another one 708 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:59,160 and you know we're looking at somewhere around a 40-year 709 00:58:56,440 --> 00:59:03,559 pretty even time span for those that anybody's interested I have 710 00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:09,640 the Burlington Free Press from I think it's August 11 1976 hurricane Bell is a 711 00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:15,400 variety of pictures of the the devastating flooding in Huntington um 712 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:21,400 including Joe Spence rescuing some of his cows from the uh flood waters and um 713 00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:29,520 I think there's some washed out Bridges uh 1976 I was 6 years old living in 714 00:59:24,599 --> 00:59:34,280 Huntington Center and and um the uh every bridge except the one into 715 00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:42,119 Huntington Center completely washed out um the Shaker Mountain Bridge was uh 716 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:46,680 Still Standing but very wobbly 717 00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:50,400 um and uh it uh it had some benefits for a 718 00:59:49,119 --> 00:59:54,960 six-year-old it was the year I learned to ride a bike because there was uh no 719 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:59,839 traffic on the road for for quite a few weeks 720 00:59:57,359 --> 01:00:04,880 um but uh you know talk about devastating floods it was it was 721 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:10,119 um yeah it was a lot I think it's important to note that 722 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:13,440 two people drowned thank you yeah yeah we had two people two hunon residents 723 01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:18,280 who died in that flp there were two others elsewhere in the state who died 724 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:22,680 as well four fatalities in that in that year um I thought i' just talk really 725 01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:28,000 briefly about the uh water quality studies that we've done in the 726 01:00:23,599 --> 01:00:33,480 Huntington River um from about 2002 to 2018 um the Huntington coordin 727 01:00:31,359 --> 01:00:39,440 Conservation Commission started a a project to um study eoli 728 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:44,200 bacteria contamination in the Huntington River um uh we did that just here in 729 01:00:42,799 --> 01:00:48,720 Huntington for a couple years and then Richmond got very interested and we sort 730 01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:53,440 of formed a little um an official Cooperative called the 731 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:58,039 Huntington River conservation partnership um and we had teams of 732 01:00:55,280 --> 01:01:03,079 volunteers going going out every week or every other week later collecting water 733 01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:08,839 samples that would get taken to the um State lab and Waterberry and then 734 01:01:05,079 --> 01:01:14,640 eventually to Randolph um to test the eoli bacteria levels at points all up 735 01:01:11,799 --> 01:01:18,839 and down the river uh I know some of you here collected water 736 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:25,079 samples um we did we made several attempts at um 737 01:01:22,559 --> 01:01:31,920 trying to identify the uh the source of the uh bacteria area um it was uh the 738 01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:35,599 huny river was found to be you know quite highly contaminated at certain 739 01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:39,960 times um in fact the Lower Village was put on 740 01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:45,559 the states impaired water list in I think it was 2006 or 2007 um for for 741 01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:50,839 bacteria contamination um we weren't really 742 01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:57,319 successful ever at kind of nailing down a point source or one point source um we 743 01:01:53,760 --> 01:02:05,880 did some pretty Cutting Edge um DNA analysis at one time 744 01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:12,440 um to to try to identify the actual type of uh mammal that the EOL bacteria was 745 01:02:09,079 --> 01:02:16,880 coming from um and the results were were interesting but somewhat 746 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:22,200 unconcluded basically they found that it it seemed likely that it was a mixed uh 747 01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:27,319 source of humans livestock and Wildlife 748 01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:41,240 but but what but well so the reason the Lower Village area was deemed impaired 749 01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:45,599 was because the levels were shown consistently High there um and so I 750 01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:50,760 think that's important to note um but we also found that uh we were able to link 751 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:57,359 the high bacteria to pretty to pretty well to um to high flow events and and 752 01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:04,200 uh and more specifically to high flow events that 753 01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:09,079 followed periods of um dry so if you if you had a if you had an extended period 754 01:03:06,079 --> 01:03:14,839 of rain um you would tend to see the bacteria levels taper off and then if 755 01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:20,119 you had a dry spell and then a big storm you'd see those bacteria levels Spike up 756 01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:28,000 um and so that suggests that there's a fair amount of um probably uh uh surface 757 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:34,119 water input coming off the land flowing into the river right and also U 758 01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:39,559 potentially a jump in the water table a spike in the water table at a particular 759 01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:39,559 time that's that's pushing stuff 760 01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:51,880 out um and then the last thing I was just going to talk about a little bit 761 01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:58,520 was um just some more personal less scientific observations having um put 762 01:03:55,359 --> 01:04:04,760 the new in the river this summer um for the first time in in a while uh it was I 763 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:08,359 always find this is a really good way to uh well first of all to kind of 764 01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:13,119 reconnect to the Huntington River and see it from A New Perspective besides 765 01:04:10,119 --> 01:04:19,000 our roads and bridges again but um but also just you you really get this to see 766 01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:25,119 it in detail and doing that repeatedly over uh many years U or with many years 767 01:04:23,039 --> 01:04:31,079 in between you start to see some of these differences and um so we put the 768 01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:37,720 canoe in the river and uh late August just for a a 4our trip from the recck 769 01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:42,400 field down to Horseshoe Ben um and really wanted to get a look at things 770 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:48,880 after the July flooding of this year um and just kind of get a better sense of 771 01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:48,880 of of what was going on out there 772 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:58,720 um we certainly saw um some bank erosion um but I wouldn't have said it 773 01:04:55,799 --> 01:05:04,440 was um astronomically more bank erosion than we've uh had seen back in the early 774 01:05:02,359 --> 01:05:09,160 2000s when we were doing geomorphic work or in years prior when we were when we 775 01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:14,319 had done canoe trips before that um there were some new large mass 776 01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:19,400 wasting sites so a mass wasting site is one of these a very very tall Hills 777 01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:26,799 slope banks that the river is banging into and um and uh so there were a 778 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:33,440 couple of of new sites uh that that were notable and considerably more dramatic 779 01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:39,279 than the bank erosion in fact um we were able to see uh evidence of 780 01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:45,279 some of that historic bed incision um where you can actually where 781 01:05:42,000 --> 01:05:52,599 some of that eroding bank is happening you can see um Riverbank sediment at a 782 01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:58,000 higher elevation than the current bad so uh real clear evidence that that River 783 01:05:55,279 --> 01:06:04,760 in that area has been down cutting um and leaving the old bed sometimes 3 or 4 784 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:09,000 feet sometimes even more higher 785 01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:13,640 um saw considerably more Japanese knotweed than we have in the past um 786 01:06:12,279 --> 01:06:19,960 that's probably not a surprise to most of you but um it was uh it it shouldn't 787 01:06:17,599 --> 01:06:24,440 have been shocking but it was um kind of having looked at 788 01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:29,960 it 15 20 years ago and to see it today it's um it's it's a it's a big and 789 01:06:28,319 --> 01:06:39,119 unfortunate change um but on the plus side what we 790 01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:43,799 noted was we're starting to see evidence of 791 01:06:40,119 --> 01:06:49,039 improved channel in Channel habitat and really that took the form of um in this 792 01:06:46,799 --> 01:06:56,160 particular case of seeing a lot more pools than we have in the past um when 793 01:06:51,960 --> 01:06:59,000 we did the work on that uh main stem in uh 794 01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:07,279 2004 or five uh that same section from Horseshoe 795 01:07:02,559 --> 01:07:13,520 Bend to the rec field working Upstream um we documented a total of 796 01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:18,599 four pools uh this summer somewhere probably 797 01:07:16,760 --> 01:07:27,520 in the neighborhood of 10 or 12 um saw 15 or 18inch brown 798 01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,520 trout um 799 01:07:27,680 --> 01:07:35,680 so I felt like you know there is some hope here thinking looking at this River 800 01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:39,480 and uh I think I think what we're seeing in those in those pools are some 801 01:07:37,359 --> 01:07:43,760 evidence that that you know as we're starting to move out of that incision 802 01:07:41,839 --> 01:07:47,000 through some of that widening and and into that stabilizing phase of the 803 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:51,160 channel channel Evolution we're starting to see some of those um habitat 804 01:07:49,640 --> 01:07:54,799 characteristics take hold again we're starting to see some of the banks 805 01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:58,760 starting to stabilize a little bit we're starting to see maybe a little bit of 806 01:07:56,559 --> 01:08:03,000 places where the river can reconnect to some flood planes or is forming some new 807 01:08:00,839 --> 01:08:08,400 flood planes that will serve that purpose in the 808 01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:13,680 future um so it's uh it's been a bad year for the river but I don't think 809 01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:20,560 it's been all bad and uh hopefully we'll have more good than 810 01:08:16,440 --> 01:08:20,560 bad as we move forward 811 01:08:21,750 --> 01:08:34,319 [Applause] thank you for ending on a positive note 812 01:08:30,279 --> 01:08:40,640 Aaron um so we're going to move into our question phase and we're going to try to 813 01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:45,080 get to as many questions as we can um if folks have written questions down 814 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:48,279 Janette said she would come around and pick them up I don't know if anyone 815 01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:53,640 wants to use the card no obligation that was just an 816 01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:53,640 option um 817 01:08:53,839 --> 01:09:00,319 and if folks want want to come up and use a microphone they're welcome 818 01:08:57,279 --> 01:09:03,839 otherwise just speak loudly and um I know you all know this but I'm just 819 01:09:01,480 --> 01:09:09,159 going to remind us all to be respectful and commit to communicating with 820 01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:14,000 courtesy to listen attentively to others and have an open mind and to encourage 821 01:09:11,640 --> 01:09:18,600 equal participation by being mindful of our speaking time and making space for 822 01:09:16,560 --> 01:09:26,440 others who may be less likely to speak up so who has a question or a 823 01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:31,080 comment and you can also spef ify um if this is for a particular panelist or for 824 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,080 anyone to 825 01:09:32,520 --> 01:09:40,640 answer uh this is just a matter of definition I know when you when you give 826 01:09:37,799 --> 01:09:46,199 presentations you can sometimes misse so this may been a matter that um and 827 01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:52,679 talking about the force of the river and the different aspects of what makes the 828 01:09:49,480 --> 01:09:59,800 force of the the movement the word slope was used and in my mind slope is a 829 01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:06,760 gravitational thing going from up to down but it seemed like it was being 830 01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:11,120 described as the Meander of the river so can you clarify what the term slope 831 01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:17,719 means when you're talking about the river let me take 832 01:10:13,679 --> 01:10:23,520 that yeah thanks um and sorry for being confusing um so yes slope is from 833 01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:30,320 Upstream to Downstream and the point there is is that if you have a reach of 834 01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:37,000 river that starts somewhere let's just arbitrarily say the elevation is 1,000 835 01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:43,560 ft above sea level and then that reach of that reach of river ends Downstream 836 01:10:40,440 --> 01:10:49,000 at 980 ft above sea level so it's dropped 20 ft right now if you draw a 837 01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:54,239 straight line down the Valley from point8 to point 838 01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:59,080 B let's say that's a distance of one mile so that that River ran straight 839 01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:04,480 it'd be a mile long and it would drop 20 ft over that mile so 20 ft per mile but 840 01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:08,320 if that River's Meandering back and forth across the valley it's going to be 841 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:13,880 much it's going to be longer than a mile right so if it's longer than a mile then 842 01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:18,480 it's going to be 20 ft over 1.2 or 1.3 or 1 so it's flatter that's that's the 843 01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:26,239 point is that the Meandering River has less slope than the straight River do 844 01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:30,239 that yeah okay yeah thank you in the back a 845 01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:34,840 question someone in the back has a question yeah oh 846 01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:39,719 yeah hi my name is onise I just want to thank all three panelists for coming and 847 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:45,040 doing this amazing presentation um I think it's phenomenal 848 01:11:43,159 --> 01:11:51,960 the work that you've put in to helping us understand um the natural course of 849 01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:57,480 waters whether they're in a steeper Valley or a wider Valley and how they go 850 01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:03,600 straighter or they may or more depending on what the valley itself says um and I 851 01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:12,159 think it's it's a lot of food for thought for people all over the world as 852 01:12:07,679 --> 01:12:18,040 the climate changes and the impacts vary and the floods come more and more often 853 01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:25,880 and heavier um to re-evaluate what we think of as 854 01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:31,040 appropriate engagement with the river um I I thought your points were 855 01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:35,280 brilliant actually really really spot on um and I did hear on was it Brave Little 856 01:12:33,239 --> 01:12:39,120 state that the reason that we have more Japanese not weed all over the state 857 01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:45,360 right now is because of Hurricane Irene that there was so much insane 858 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:50,679 flooding and incision that the Japanese not weed got spread all over the rivers 859 01:12:47,679 --> 01:12:54,760 all over and at first they thought yeah this can be a bank stabilizer this might 860 01:12:52,639 --> 01:13:00,920 be good but then they discovered that actually Japanese not weed the rones run 861 01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:05,440 at the surface level of the dirt and they don't dig in deep to hold the dirt 862 01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:11,080 in place so actually because of the Japanese not weed instead of other raran 863 01:13:08,480 --> 01:13:16,800 buffers um we're going to see more incision in the future and yeah I just 864 01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:20,840 thought it was a great presentation thank you so 865 01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:25,679 much is it going to be online somewhere where people can watch it it is being 866 01:13:22,679 --> 01:13:31,800 recorded right now yes Thank you 867 01:13:27,679 --> 01:13:36,120 Lisa yes back I too want to thank the uh panel for presenting some of this 868 01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:41,360 material was very you know interesting learning about all the different aspects 869 01:13:38,440 --> 01:13:48,360 of what you presented tonight you know as a lifelong Vermont myself having 870 01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:53,800 broke fish uh all my my life uh when I well mostly when I was younger and get 871 01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:57,920 around a little bit more easily but one of the questions that I had for the 872 01:13:55,120 --> 01:14:04,120 panel is is that one of the things that I think Vermont could look at is uh 873 01:14:00,639 --> 01:14:09,480 utilizing homeowners who own uh homes along the rivers and along the Brooks as 874 01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:13,239 Force multipliers in terms of helping to take care of the Brooks and 875 01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:19,679 communicating effectively with those homeowners of the things that they could 876 01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:25,159 do on their own in order to support that uh uh River or brook or what have you 877 01:14:22,679 --> 01:14:30,239 and I think a lot of times you know when you have a a situation uh such as a a 878 01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:34,480 major flood and a homeowner loses a lot of their property or or what have you 879 01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:37,960 they're looking for quick answers you know to kind of get an assessment 880 01:14:36,719 --> 01:14:43,120 they're they're concerned they're worried you know uh they may lose their 881 01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:46,199 home uh they're they're losing property and one of the things I was just 882 01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:51,679 thinking about as you folks were were talking is you could do contact teams 883 01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:56,400 for major areas that have been been hit and just put out there say hey for the 884 01:14:53,679 --> 01:15:02,719 homeowners look we understand you know you just got nailed by this particular 885 01:14:58,719 --> 01:15:09,159 flood what can we do to help in terms of assessing the future needs of the brook 886 01:15:05,560 --> 01:15:14,800 or the river that you live along and uh what you know what areas you can go to 887 01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:19,639 in order to get help and a lot of us you know we are concerned about I you know I 888 01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:23,280 want my grandchilden to have the opportunity to go Brook fishing in 889 01:15:21,120 --> 01:15:27,960 Vermont I mean for crying out loud I was in the Northeast Kingdom I remember 890 01:15:25,719 --> 01:15:33,679 drinking out of the brook you know when we when we went fishing so bottom line 891 01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:39,040 is is that we've got to figure out a way to communicate more effectively in terms 892 01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:44,280 of homeowners or Farmers or what have you on ways that we can do stuff and 893 01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:50,120 just by doing a study it's great to do a study but what did you do with the study 894 01:15:46,679 --> 01:15:54,560 you know um and and how did that Implement change in terms of what we did 895 01:15:52,719 --> 01:15:57,639 and when you showed that particular River 896 01:15:55,520 --> 01:16:03,040 uh where it was just essentially flat I was thinking to myself well how 897 01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:07,239 is that happen with not you know consultation and and saying okay well if 898 01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:12,880 you're going to do this you at least need to put you know large rocks 899 01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:17,400 whatever but bottom line is I'm looking for uh 900 01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:22,760 communication helping to ease homeowners Minds that not only are you concerned 901 01:16:20,199 --> 01:16:26,280 about the Aquatic Life of a river but you're also concerned about the human 902 01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:30,400 beings who are living in homes next to the river because we're not the only 903 01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:34,199 ones who are being impacted when you have buildings and one of the things 904 01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:38,239 that I don't know if it was addressed in your study but one of the things that 905 01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:45,840 impact the river as well is when homeowners build homes on mountains and 906 01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:49,960 they clear SWA the land and allowing additional water to reach the the 907 01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:55,159 tributaries and waterways so that was just you know my comment again thank you 908 01:16:52,920 --> 01:17:01,280 very interesting you know in terms terms of uh how the water uh works and 909 01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,280 channeling and what have 910 01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:10,679 you um no I think that's a really good point about the the value of of people 911 01:17:08,560 --> 01:17:15,239 who live in the community sort of being I think Advocate would that that be the 912 01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:20,560 word I could use yeah um because I think you're right like the state regulations 913 01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:25,440 the the funding all of that reality is we're not going to be able to to buy our 914 01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:30,000 way or to regulate our way to whatever we want you know flood 915 01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:34,040 resiliency water quality habitat it's going to require behavioral 916 01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:40,400 modifications it's going toire people adopting the behaviors the strategies on 917 01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:45,840 their own volitionally to do what what is is going to what I think we're going 918 01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:50,000 to need to do um and it's uh it's going to require and that the way that that's 919 01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:53,440 going to happen is by neighbors talking to Neighbors about you know flood 920 01:17:51,719 --> 01:17:57,360 response what did you do during what did you do during a flood how did you resp 921 01:17:54,880 --> 01:18:01,679 respond to it or you know water quality issues or whatever but I think the the 922 01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:07,360 the point that you brought up I think is is Spa on um you mentioned streamwise 923 01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:12,679 earlier there's actually we're we're working with uh friends of the wusi 924 01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:17,239 river they' they've come to Huntington um streamwise basically is a program 925 01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:22,120 that to basically develop that to culture that what you're talking about 926 01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:26,000 identify land owners who are want to do the right thing are doing the right 927 01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:29,520 thing um and sorry that's a very loaded term I 928 01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:33,480 I'm sorry I wish there was a better way I could have said that but anyway 929 01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:37,639 neighbors who who are managing their property in a way that we think is um 930 01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:42,679 consistent with natural River processes flood resiliency water quality aquatic 931 01:18:39,679 --> 01:18:47,199 habitat and providing them with tools basically to talk to their other land 932 01:18:44,600 --> 01:18:51,000 owner other neighbors uh and provide them with information um so anyway there 933 01:18:49,199 --> 01:18:56,719 is there is a program that we're working on to to do that do you guys want to add 934 01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,719 anything 935 01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:08,600 um yeah and uh I agree and I'll just say that I um I believe that right now the 936 01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:14,520 regional Planning Commission is has um begun a project to kind of pick back up 937 01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:23,320 the results of the corridor plan that we worked on back in 2008 2009 and to uh 938 01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:29,520 take a new Fresh look at what types of uh projects are are would be most 939 01:19:25,679 --> 01:19:33,800 beneficial in today's environment and um I think one of those is you know part of 940 01:19:31,280 --> 01:19:38,480 that's going to be reaching out to to Streamside land owners and working with 941 01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:41,960 people on um developing some of these projects that could have some of those 942 01:19:39,800 --> 01:19:45,960 benefits so uh fingers crossed that that um that happens in a in a good 943 01:19:48,480 --> 01:19:57,400 way I'll put in another plug for the streamwise assessment um it is 944 01:19:54,199 --> 01:20:03,560 completely free to uh Property Owners it's not so much uh response to flooding 945 01:20:00,440 --> 01:20:10,880 as more of like come out at kind of let give you ideas uh for how to um just 946 01:20:07,960 --> 01:20:17,960 create a healthier stream uh environment and so um they do write up a a report 947 01:20:15,239 --> 01:20:21,600 for you and give it to you so and list it out with recommendations of things 948 01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:27,719 you can do and uh if you go to friends of the wusi website you can link through 949 01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:35,840 there to put in uh formal requests to have a stream side assessment at your 950 01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:40,520 property um okay yes question here yeah is there I know that for Farmers there's 951 01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:49,440 federal and state funding put in recur firsts and convert to car zones is there 952 01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:55,639 funding or support for land owners that might want to put in a buffer strip or 953 01:20:53,120 --> 01:21:01,280 support or reduce erosion by putting in trees access to funding for folks that 954 01:20:58,239 --> 01:21:05,719 want to do that on their private property I I streamwise does not 955 01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:11,000 actually pay for any of the recommendations that they make um but 956 01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:15,719 someone else may have an answer to that question do we 957 01:21:13,320 --> 01:21:20,040 know I know the Huntington Conservation Commission is um always looking for 958 01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:25,040 projects we might be willing to help out but that might not be the answer you're 959 01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:29,560 looking for I plan commission so the reference 960 01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:37,440 to projects on private land stated in recent years is funding something called 961 01:21:35,480 --> 01:21:42,239 clean water service providers this is a way to 962 01:21:38,440 --> 01:21:48,400 address Foster reduction projects voluntary project so big picture we have 963 01:21:45,239 --> 01:21:48,400 Lake champag 964 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:56,719 tmdl State a couple years ago said EPA we got this we're going to you know 965 01:21:53,920 --> 01:22:00,040 improve Reg on farms or Wastewater plants we're going to have Municipal 966 01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:04,480 roads General permit so that's why you see all this road work and ditching and 967 01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:10,320 turnouts and those kinds of things so regulatory measures to reduce phosphorus 968 01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:14,840 that gets you 80% of the way over the next 15 20 years to hopefully meet the 969 01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:20,280 phosphorus reduction targets we report back to EPA and say see we're cutting 970 01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:23,960 back to phosphorus in the L but 20% of the load plus or minus depending on what 971 01:22:22,159 --> 01:22:30,800 water shed you're in needs to come from voluntary sector so the state is putting 972 01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:34,520 in about $7 million a year passing it through the different Regional planning 973 01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:39,880 commissions um the one for the wusi drainage which you guys are a part of is 974 01:22:37,239 --> 01:22:45,000 actually managed by Central Vermont RPC that's Brian boy Lincoln Pras are the 975 01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:50,719 two main staffers there um so they be the ones to contact about doing projects 976 01:22:48,360 --> 01:22:55,040 um town could do a project we're doing as as Mr rley mentioned we're working 977 01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:57,840 with the town right now on we hired a consultant Stone 978 01:22:56,440 --> 01:23:03,560 environmental to go back and look at the old 2009 study and find some phosphorous 979 01:23:00,679 --> 01:23:08,920 projects there because any kind of flood plane restoration you get that whether 980 01:23:06,239 --> 01:23:13,600 you when you carve down the flood plane a little bit by a couple your feet so 981 01:23:11,280 --> 01:23:17,000 the water can get in or you put fake beaver dams in the streams either way 982 01:23:15,480 --> 01:23:22,639 you want to get that sediment to dump you get the sediment to dump boom that's 983 01:23:19,199 --> 01:23:27,520 phosphorous so he take some time s like and stream blank stream Bank restoration 984 01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:32,320 projects rep plantings have a have a phosphorous reduction benefit 985 01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:37,760 calculators so that's Regional Planning Commission work like a vendor to set 986 01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:43,719 over lot RPC so we can manage a project like we're doing now so that's the best 987 01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:49,159 source for projects on private lands reduce phos r or any private potentially 988 01:23:47,199 --> 01:23:55,440 private road projects that's sort of the newer thing that look clear erosion 989 01:23:52,920 --> 01:24:01,360 project you know on that if it's of not just fixing Road there's a clear siment 990 01:23:58,159 --> 01:24:08,760 run off into into the street that's the best short story priv roads thank you 991 01:24:06,719 --> 01:24:14,120 priver yeah thank you that sounds like a good option for 992 01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:14,120 folks uh 993 01:24:15,159 --> 01:24:22,000 yes I don't get out much but I've noticed there was a petition from I 994 01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:28,880 think mostly homeowners who were affected by the July flood 995 01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:32,239 to the select board and I'm not sure exactly what they were asking for I 996 01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:40,400 think I think they were asking for permission to access the river and 997 01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:45,080 mine the gravel Banks and asking for subsidies from the town perhaps do it or 998 01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:49,360 asking the town to Grants to make that happen and I 999 01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:54,800 wonder how that relates to what you guys have talked about 1000 01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:59,040 today what the impact of that sort of I don't know if I even understand what 1001 01:24:56,400 --> 01:25:04,760 they were asking for but I'd like to know more about it and how it relates to 1002 01:25:02,119 --> 01:25:08,639 the yeah I don't know if anyone here can answer that question what they're asking 1003 01:25:06,480 --> 01:25:15,000 for because I don't know that either someone here who signed the petition 1004 01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:18,480 um but but we do have some panelists who are willing to speak to the broader 1005 01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:27,159 issue so yeah I can't clarify exactly what the 1006 01:25:24,920 --> 01:25:30,400 petition is I mean I think I generally understand it and I think you 1007 01:25:28,040 --> 01:25:37,440 articulated it fairly accurately is is to do River Management work to reduce 1008 01:25:33,600 --> 01:25:42,320 the flood hazards um was is is generally what they were asking and whether or 1009 01:25:39,639 --> 01:25:47,440 not the town would help pay for that or the town's involvement would make 1010 01:25:44,199 --> 01:25:54,400 funding easier to get from other sources um I'm a little unclear on that but 1011 01:25:49,719 --> 01:26:02,520 generally that was it so you know it it was back in 1986 that the laws around um 1012 01:25:59,440 --> 01:26:08,239 mining gravel changed before 1986 uh you could mine gravel and you 1013 01:26:05,159 --> 01:26:16,199 could sell that gravel commercially for I think was $2 a ton um which I've been 1014 01:26:13,639 --> 01:26:21,960 told in that time period was pretty good money for just digging gravel out of the 1015 01:26:18,719 --> 01:26:26,360 river um it was somewhat profitable know there probably some better Minds on that 1016 01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:32,840 than mine but yeah $2 a ton Justin I don't know something like that um so 1017 01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:38,840 after 19 in 1986 the the laws on that pass laws on that changed and you could 1018 01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:42,760 no longer mine gravel for profit um you could mine gravel if you were riparian 1019 01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:48,480 landowner and you could use that gravel on your property um to to repair roads 1020 01:26:46,679 --> 01:26:52,840 that you you know primarily with with agricultural uh land owners in mind you 1021 01:26:50,679 --> 01:26:58,760 could use that gravel to repair roads Etc I think the maximum of volume that 1022 01:26:55,679 --> 01:27:01,920 you could remove is 10 your 50 is that I've heard this number thrown around 1023 01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:06,840 recently is it 50 cubic yards your annual yeah so 50 cubic you can take per 1024 01:27:04,639 --> 01:27:14,320 year um prior to that you know gravel mining 1025 01:27:11,440 --> 01:27:17,880 it was just it was done extensively it was done without any understanding of 1026 01:27:16,159 --> 01:27:23,280 what the implications were it was done without any understanding of you know 1027 01:27:20,480 --> 01:27:26,679 the flal geology the the sciency stuff that I talked about tonight wasn't 1028 01:27:25,239 --> 01:27:31,280 really well understood and it put us into this situation now where we have 1029 01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:37,480 all these insided unstable Rivers we still however remove gravel 1030 01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:44,440 from Rivers I think between 23 and 24 2023 and 2024 um that' be August to a 1031 01:27:41,520 --> 01:27:49,280 yeah August to augusti is um the state issued I believe 350 permits that 1032 01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:54,320 included removal of gravel from the river so we still remove gravel we lots 1033 01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:58,679 of times it's around public infrastructure Bridges Road Road 1034 01:27:56,360 --> 01:28:05,360 embankments Etc um to mitigate mitigate the risk to that 1035 01:28:02,199 --> 01:28:11,400 infrastructure um but we do it in a measured way right we understand the 1036 01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:16,520 implications when we do it we're careful we we we survey these sites we 1037 01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:19,960 understand how much gravel to remove and we do it and it's it's it's a it's a 1038 01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:25,040 more you know wellth thought out designed scientifically informed way to 1039 01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:32,440 do that so all of that that long wittedness is to say that in some 1040 01:28:28,840 --> 01:28:39,199 locations if we've done our homework and we use science and engineering to base 1041 01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:44,760 designs on um we can remove gravel to reduce flooding hazards in a way that 1042 01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:50,080 isn't going to 1043 01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:54,119 um cause negative impacts that outweigh the benefits of removing the gravel 1044 01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:59,440 right you're always going to have some some negative impacts but you're 1045 01:28:56,760 --> 01:29:02,480 mitigating another Hazard so you're balancing risks right and you're 1046 01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:08,480 weighing those against each other and your risks or hazards against each other 1047 01:29:05,719 --> 01:29:13,119 um but we need to understand you know we need to do the studies to understand 1048 01:29:10,679 --> 01:29:16,360 what the implications are and it can't what we've moved away from and what what 1049 01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:19,159 I'm proposing that the science is telling us we need to continue to move 1050 01:29:17,800 --> 01:29:22,880 away from is the idea that you just go in and dig and dig as deep as you can 1051 01:29:21,239 --> 01:29:26,920 and get out as much as you can because that that just gets us into trouble 1052 01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:32,280 so you're talking the less disadvantageous method of gravable is 1053 01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:41,000 bars above water line I'm assume correct as opposed to just trenching that is a a 1054 01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:46,040 um practice that's become fairly commonly prescribed by the River 1055 01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:51,800 Management program and I think can you repeat what Justus yeah so 1056 01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:59,960 Justin asked if I'm suggesting that the activity of removing 1057 01:29:56,520 --> 01:30:06,960 the gravel from the tops of gravel bars is a less impacting form of Channel 1058 01:30:03,400 --> 01:30:13,440 management than just dredging the entire Channel 1059 01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:17,840 and um it is a a it is a a a pres a practice that has been commonly 1060 01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:23,239 prescribed by the River Management program I think they do see that those 1061 01:30:21,040 --> 01:30:27,800 gravel bars typically just rebuild when that gravel's 1062 01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:32,280 removed um so they see it as a less impactful I would say it's still 1063 01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:37,760 impactful we still need to understand it but um you know the River Management 1064 01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:40,719 engineers and really when you talk about people to go around and work with land 1065 01:30:39,280 --> 01:30:44,520 owners and help them understand their risk and what they might do the way that 1066 01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:47,560 the whole system is set up it's the River Management Engineers that are the 1067 01:30:46,239 --> 01:30:54,040 ones that are really supposed to do that they're the experts so um they're 1068 01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:56,840 prescribing it and what I think about yeah I'm not sure 1069 01:30:55,639 --> 01:31:01,719 what I think about it in every case I think all cases are different um there 1070 01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:06,920 are some implications well you know one of the things that that whole balance 1071 01:31:03,719 --> 01:31:12,199 situation if you remove sediment from the Huntington in Huntington um or if 1072 01:31:10,480 --> 01:31:18,560 you remove sediment in Hanksville and you dredge the rivers in 1073 01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:22,320 Hanksville and you set you know the next storm comes along that's less sediment 1074 01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:26,480 getting down here that's available to get down here to sap the energy out out 1075 01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:29,960 of the water also potentially cause conflicts but sap energy out of the 1076 01:31:28,159 --> 01:31:32,639 water and it's more water you're sending down here because that water is not 1077 01:31:31,239 --> 01:31:35,840 being stored on a flood plane up in Hanksville or up near starbor somewhere 1078 01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:40,880 that water's coming down here to the Village right so when we remove gravel 1079 01:31:38,239 --> 01:31:44,639 here we're impacting folks down stream um so that that's one thing I keep in 1080 01:31:43,000 --> 01:31:49,800 mind about that whole thing but yes that is that is what they typically prescribe 1081 01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:54,679 um whether or not there's a huge benefit in terms of reduction of 1082 01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:59,000 flood Peaks I think that's really questionable like 1083 01:31:57,080 --> 01:32:02,920 are you really you know by scraping that little bit of gravel off the bar are you 1084 01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:08,360 really reducing flood Peaks all that much I'm not sure if that's if that's 1085 01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:08,360 necessarily 1086 01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:18,960 true anyone else want to speak well I'll just no I'll just um build on that a 1087 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:22,040 little bit so um we were actually looking in preparation for this talk we 1088 01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:27,320 were looking at a study that was done in the '90s 1089 01:32:24,159 --> 01:32:33,840 um that and I don't I'm not sure um oh yeah so this was this was a a USGS 1090 01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:41,199 study I believe done on three different rivers in Vermont um in the early to mid 1091 01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:49,840 90s looking at the um the modeling the impacts or the or the benefits to flood 1092 01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:54,719 attenuation for um dredging channels and uh also what what's kind of collo called 1093 01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:58,280 Gravel Bar sculping scalping which is this you know removing the tops of These 1094 01:32:56,360 --> 01:33:02,239 Bars and um you know I think I I really agree 1095 01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:07,920 with Shane that I don't know that this um you know these things don't bear 1096 01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:12,520 out the same way in every case but what that study showed the modeling showed 1097 01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:19,159 that when you dredge a river um you do show immediate improvements to um 1098 01:33:16,360 --> 01:33:22,679 inundation so you know and that kind of goes along with the with the history 1099 01:33:21,280 --> 01:33:28,560 that we've you know we've seen and what we see in that channel I believe ution 1100 01:33:24,159 --> 01:33:34,400 model um um but you also see um very rapid um significant increases in 1101 01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:39,679 erosion um and the model very very clearly showed uh uh significant 1102 01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:45,560 increases um and then with the Gravel Bar scalping you didn't see that uh 1103 01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:51,920 erosion impacts um but you also saw just negligible changes to the um to the 1104 01:33:49,719 --> 01:33:56,360 inundation situation and I mean by negligible I think the I think the 1105 01:33:54,000 --> 01:34:01,480 number was somewhere around two10 of a foot or something like that um so you 1106 01:33:59,159 --> 01:34:05,280 know I think that that's part of the um part of the one of the things that I 1107 01:34:02,719 --> 01:34:11,600 think a lot about with this conversation about the the Gravel Bar reduction is 1108 01:34:08,159 --> 01:34:17,600 that it's not inexpensive to get contractors in there to do that it's um 1109 01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:21,159 it's not without risk to the uh you have to get there you have to you know get 1110 01:34:19,639 --> 01:34:26,440 down the bank and into the channel itself so it's not without ecological 1111 01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:32,239 risk um and is it after you spent all that money and um and you know tried to 1112 01:34:30,639 --> 01:34:35,440 mitigate that risk the best you can are you actually getting any benefit out of 1113 01:34:33,719 --> 01:34:38,480 it and I think that that's the important question in my mind that needs to be 1114 01:34:36,800 --> 01:34:41,040 answered before we just jump to do something like 1115 01:34:43,119 --> 01:34:53,760 that so if it's good for rivers and I know it is to have a flood plane to 1116 01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:53,760 spread out and soak in 1117 01:34:53,800 --> 01:35:01,320 is it possible to create a flood flood planes for the Huntington if the 1118 01:34:58,639 --> 01:35:07,840 Huntington doesn't have enough flood planes I mean it seems like it's 1119 01:35:03,360 --> 01:35:13,040 creating its own but is it possible to find a place that's good to have a 1120 01:35:10,239 --> 01:35:18,840 flood plane yeah and I'll start with this one good for yeah um so that's the 1121 01:35:16,080 --> 01:35:23,159 flood plane cut method right where you have these high Terraces that the river 1122 01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:27,600 can't access until it gets some you know some really high flow event maybe above 1123 01:35:25,159 --> 01:35:32,840 a 100-year flow event so you go in and you excavate that down you cut that down 1124 01:35:30,000 --> 01:35:37,960 and you create lower lying land and that is what you're right that is what the 1125 01:35:35,159 --> 01:35:42,320 river is doing as it moves side to side it's cutting into that high terrorist 1126 01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:47,119 taking that away and then as it Manders back the other way across the valley 1127 01:35:44,199 --> 01:35:52,880 it's building those Point bars and it's those Point bars become the new flood 1128 01:35:49,639 --> 01:35:57,280 plane and um you know they vegetate and and yeah provide all those that function 1129 01:35:54,880 --> 01:36:02,239 of the flood plane so you can that is a that is a approach that's used um I've 1130 01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:07,480 been involved in three or four of those projects and throughout the state and um 1131 01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:10,480 yeah that's that's an approach very expensive very 1132 01:36:11,159 --> 01:36:18,480 expensive Shane another approach which you also are um pioneering is I'm 1133 01:36:16,639 --> 01:36:23,159 actually bringing the channel up to the flood plane so not just bringing the the 1134 01:36:20,239 --> 01:36:27,119 flood plane down but um so like the wood addition I was talking about where it's 1135 01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:31,440 safe to do so we're finding that that actually is helping to reconnect the 1136 01:36:29,239 --> 01:36:37,280 flood plane um and so there's plenty of other examples I I could have shown of 1137 01:36:34,280 --> 01:36:40,960 where we have state land state forests where it's all flooded on the in the 1138 01:36:39,119 --> 01:36:45,960 flood plane because we've done these wood addition projects um Shane's also 1139 01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:51,119 doing a lot of work uh in other areas look actually recreating wetlands and 1140 01:36:48,239 --> 01:36:57,360 things like that um up in higher elev or not smaller order streams um it's you 1141 01:36:55,040 --> 01:37:02,239 know smaller scale it's not maybe as like a massive flood plane but the idea 1142 01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:07,000 being that if we can store water in these smaller spaces if we can get 1143 01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:11,600 enough of that it it can help it um slow it slow down some of that flood water I 1144 01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:15,480 think something else to emphasize you know there's so that we can we can 1145 01:37:13,199 --> 01:37:20,800 mitigate some of this we can do some like slowing the water storing it but 1146 01:37:19,119 --> 01:37:24,360 again with the size of the floods we we're 1147 01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:28,040 seeing it's it's going to overwhelm it at some point you know I think the 1148 01:37:25,760 --> 01:37:34,440 floods that we've seen this year I think unfortunately what we've seen is it you 1149 01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:39,719 know when we've built in um uh In Harm's Way that those areas are going to be 1150 01:37:36,800 --> 01:37:43,560 inundated or there's going to be erosion and so that that's the other side of 1151 01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:47,280 this is yes it's important to do that but recognize that there's a limit to 1152 01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:52,920 what the what we can achieve through that approach in terms of the flood you 1153 01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:52,920 know lowering our flood elevations 1154 01:37:54,599 --> 01:38:03,239 Margaret um yeah so my question is I'm just thinking about we have so many 1155 01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:08,560 private land owners along the Huntington River and what it sounds to me is like 1156 01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:13,440 we really need a holistic approach to this River cuz what someone does 1157 01:38:11,239 --> 01:38:19,480 Upstream it's going to what effects on Downstream and if we reconnect the flood 1158 01:38:17,599 --> 01:38:23,000 plane Downstream it's not going to help the people 1159 01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:26,920 Upstream do you guys have any examples of where we've been able to think about 1160 01:38:25,000 --> 01:38:31,800 it in that way and have it work successfully just knowing how much 1161 01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:35,239 private land we have in the state and how everyone's kind of doing their own 1162 01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:40,159 thing but not not necessarily able to work 1163 01:38:36,599 --> 01:38:40,159 together now OT 1164 01:38:40,239 --> 01:38:49,960 Creek but Otter Creek isn't a lot of that 1165 01:38:44,719 --> 01:38:54,960 public um is the like hburg leek leou Creek they worked with 1166 01:38:53,080 --> 01:39:00,840 do and dozens of land overs um 1167 01:38:57,599 --> 01:39:04,760 and um there's a great video somewhere online of what it looked like after the 1168 01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:09,239 latest flood you know it was that inundation 1169 01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:13,400 thing where the trees were standing and the water was spread out everywhere but 1170 01:39:11,440 --> 01:39:17,840 it wasn't death and destruction to all the stream beds and the roads and the 1171 01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:23,560 the valleys and the Farmland stre Association is a good 1172 01:39:20,280 --> 01:39:23,560 place to go 1173 01:39:25,159 --> 01:39:32,639 yeah and I think to that point it really it's it's a local Advocate who's able to 1174 01:39:30,119 --> 01:39:37,880 to have the connections has has a knowledge and and able to bring that 1175 01:39:34,639 --> 01:39:43,599 together um yeah do you want to well I I'll just say you know I mean obviously 1176 01:39:40,719 --> 01:39:47,960 um if a property becomes a FEMA bio that's a really really hard thing for a 1177 01:39:45,480 --> 01:39:51,880 land owner to go through um but once it becomes town-owned property um that 1178 01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:59,560 property is a able to become flood plane and so 1179 01:39:56,520 --> 01:40:07,000 those places are opportunities to kind of reconnect the land to the river 1180 01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:12,000 um again Fe FEMA bio is is a challenging place to be but once that process does 1181 01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:17,679 happen if it if it if it does go through it it gives us an opportunity to restore 1182 01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:22,280 the flood plane in those places um over here I don't think you've 1183 01:40:20,480 --> 01:40:27,480 had a question yet yeah I was just going to comment that um Aaron's work on the 1184 01:40:25,119 --> 01:40:32,880 corridor plan is kind of a holistic approach yeah um and it generates a lot 1185 01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:37,679 of projects and looks at the stream River holistically and where our are can 1186 01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:41,320 strategically do something that will benefit the common good for a lot of 1187 01:40:39,480 --> 01:40:45,960 people but it does take a lot of Partnerships and a lot of private land 1188 01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:53,080 buy and it takes a lot of time and a lot of money um but it is a holistic 1189 01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:53,080 approach of looking at the entire water 1190 01:40:54,639 --> 01:41:03,159 uh well yes I I agree U um I think it's also it's also really relevant and 1191 01:41:01,119 --> 01:41:09,639 important to keep in mind that um uh in this Watershed we have a lot of 1192 01:41:07,480 --> 01:41:14,360 what I I mentioned lateral constraints and so these are the these are the 1193 01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:21,440 things that um really prohibit us from allowing our River to move uh in in in 1194 01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:28,119 areas where it would otherwise um naturally be inclined to do so and and 1195 01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:32,840 um and we are all as a society making commitments to protect those things um 1196 01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:38,960 and to the best of our ability to improve them to make them more resilient 1197 01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:44,560 and um and and better able to handle the forces of the river um but they still 1198 01:41:41,480 --> 01:41:49,119 exist and they still require us to be you know um managing in and around them 1199 01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:52,520 and so when you I actually did make a map and I didn't for the in the interest 1200 01:41:51,320 --> 01:41:58,159 of time I didn't end up sticking this particular one into the the slide deck 1201 01:41:55,280 --> 01:42:02,800 today but um just overlaying kind of our lateral constraints with what's left in 1202 01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:07,560 the river Corridor and um you start to narrow down kind of where you can really 1203 01:42:04,719 --> 01:42:11,159 focus your efforts um in in thinking about flood plane mitigation and these 1204 01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:15,880 kinds of things so I think there's you know there is a filtering method 1205 01:42:12,719 --> 01:42:19,760 available to us too that um we we fully understand that we will be 1206 01:42:17,480 --> 01:42:23,440 protecting uh homes and infrastructure in in many places in many cases and you 1207 01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:27,280 know and looking at ways to more resilient and move out of the way when 1208 01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:30,840 we can but um but we're we're not going to get completely out of the way and you 1209 01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:35,599 know we crisscross this River all up and down the valley and it's a relatively 1210 01:42:32,840 --> 01:42:38,960 confined setting and so um you know there's no there's no turning away from 1211 01:42:37,199 --> 01:42:41,960 that uh if if we're all going to continue to be here 1212 01:42:47,800 --> 01:42:55,800 so okay yeah question back here yeah I'm sorry I just got here a few minutes ago 1213 01:42:52,679 --> 01:43:02,199 I be earlier but I couldn't be I own about maybe a third or a half a mile of 1214 01:42:58,920 --> 01:43:11,280 river both sides I've got a section of river 20 ft High 150 yard 1215 01:43:07,599 --> 01:43:17,320 long 60 yards away from the old bank that's all top soil and it went away and 1216 01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:23,560 I watched this there's no way that my land is flood play this the river is 1217 01:43:20,719 --> 01:43:29,159 just eating into the my fields it's moving away 1218 01:43:25,239 --> 01:43:37,719 from the river the where it used to be 150 yard in 15 years 150 200 yard to the 1219 01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:44,159 to the East and it's chewing up River back and I watch this every 1220 01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:48,679 year and not a single person has come and said can we walk on your land can we 1221 01:43:46,119 --> 01:43:54,119 look at your River can we study this how many cubic yards how many 1222 01:43:51,719 --> 01:44:00,000 thousands of cubic yards top soil have washed into the river so my my point is 1223 01:43:56,960 --> 01:44:05,880 if the river gets shallow somewhere is down below what's it where where's 1224 01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:09,920 what's the the the water what's it doing I mean I invite you to come to my place 1225 01:44:08,199 --> 01:44:14,239 I'll walk you down there I'll show it to you take a look at it it's absolutely 1226 01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:18,920 horrendous I just about cry every time you look at it and not a single person 1227 01:44:16,239 --> 01:44:24,480 has come and ask me about it you want to come and look at it give me a call where 1228 01:44:21,679 --> 01:44:31,360 do you live it's in hanville it's it's below like kings field between Joe King 1229 01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:36,480 and Tomlinson it's a half a mile River and it's I lose trees I lose River Bank 1230 01:44:34,840 --> 01:44:39,880 I lose everything every year nobody's called me up and said hey can you look 1231 01:44:37,920 --> 01:44:45,119 at it it's horrible and we talk about the natural 1232 01:44:43,800 --> 01:44:50,920 flow of the river how many tons of phosphorus for in 1233 01:44:48,520 --> 01:44:55,000 that top soil where does it go it ends up in the 1234 01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:59,840 lake I mean top soil I mean phosphorus is sequestered in Top Soil 1235 01:44:57,520 --> 01:45:05,000 right so how much of that ends up in the lake probably all of it how many how 1236 01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:10,560 many feet of River Bottom has has how much how much has the river risen below 1237 01:45:07,199 --> 01:45:16,000 it Downstream from me you're you're invited to come and 1238 01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:19,320 see and say this is our suggestion let's just let it go until it reaches the road 1239 01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:24,920 and then we'll put some steel beams in and save it meanwhile it's just desert 1240 01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:29,040 there's nothing growing there yeah so that's that in sized Channel 1241 01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:33,880 condition right really high Banks super high Bank super high Banks yeah and they 1242 01:45:31,119 --> 01:45:40,000 go away I mean it's just half the height of this room yeah and 1243 01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:43,760 and and the roads I can't do a thing to it right right the road's pretty close 1244 01:45:41,920 --> 01:45:47,880 on the other side no it's hundreds of yards away okay the road's so so so we 1245 01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:51,679 got many years before it reaches the road but what are we doing in the 1246 01:45:49,040 --> 01:45:56,960 meantime yeah tall banks on both sides I got rting on one side it doesn't go that 1247 01:45:54,520 --> 01:46:00,080 right up against the valley wall long the other side of the river just 1248 01:45:59,199 --> 01:46:04,760 down below my neighbor's land I've got trees 1249 01:46:03,719 --> 01:46:10,920 stacked up 8 ft High laid horizontal against the 1250 01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:18,719 bank and was just marching away from that side of the river yeah so 1251 01:46:15,599 --> 01:46:23,320 um you know this is this iniz channel condition banks are really high the 1252 01:46:20,199 --> 01:46:31,800 channel fills during a flood the water is 6 7t deep during flood event during a 1253 01:46:28,199 --> 01:46:37,199 flood event what does it do during the flood event how deep does that water get 1254 01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:42,880 I mean that's 8 10t yeah 8 10 ft right so that's like you know that 62 lbs on 1255 01:46:40,159 --> 01:46:47,599 top of 62 lbs and like you know 620 lb and so you get a lot of Shear so it's 1256 01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:51,599 that really unstable condition the idea of I thought I knew where you were 1257 01:46:49,719 --> 01:46:55,599 talking about but I don't think I I have it pictured correctly but 1258 01:46:53,360 --> 01:46:59,880 restoration ideas range from cutting down that high Bank to give it that 1259 01:46:57,760 --> 01:47:04,840 flood plane that pressure relief valve putting well you can scrape the 1260 01:47:02,719 --> 01:47:08,520 top soil and and put it somewhere else and cut down the flood plane give it 1261 01:47:06,480 --> 01:47:12,599 that pressure relief valve we can't really put wood in the 1262 01:47:10,719 --> 01:47:16,080 main stem of the Huntington but if you could like that slows the water down 1263 01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:18,880 that that trap sediment coming from Upstream it builds the bed back up so 1264 01:47:17,480 --> 01:47:23,920 you can regain that connectivity um maybe there are other 1265 01:47:21,280 --> 01:47:28,320 ideas for you know when you talk about River restoration it ranges from really 1266 01:47:26,080 --> 01:47:32,480 true River restoration towards property protection so there may be more property 1267 01:47:30,040 --> 01:47:37,320 protection sort of things we could do but um that it all stems from this iniz 1268 01:47:35,480 --> 01:47:41,880 channel Condition it's exactly what we're talking about right but I I'd be 1269 01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:45,880 happy to come and I'd be happy to come and take a 1270 01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:51,679 look yeah that sounds great that sounds great i' I'd love to do that actually so 1271 01:47:47,960 --> 01:47:55,599 thanks for the invitation all right um Justin did your hand go 1272 01:47:53,840 --> 01:47:59,119 let's just get into the Weeds about it his is it like the soil geomorphology 1273 01:47:57,679 --> 01:48:04,199 and the field he's talking about is not a standard flood plane yeah you should 1274 01:48:01,159 --> 01:48:09,840 go look at it it's it's a very interesting piece of land that's not 1275 01:48:06,599 --> 01:48:13,880 Channel incision from what I can tell it's cutting a new channel hundreds of 1276 01:48:12,320 --> 01:48:18,760 millions of yards of sand being deposited 15,000 years ago yeah when the 1277 01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:22,880 valley was flowing the other way sorts of it's complicated yeah that's the 1278 01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:27,440 other thing we thing we have going on in this valleys 1279 01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:31,320 is really interesting surficial geology because of our proximity to the lake and 1280 01:48:29,199 --> 01:48:36,199 what happened when the lake Rose and and and you know we were Lake Shore Beach 1281 01:48:33,639 --> 01:48:40,040 and we have all these C Terraces all over the place and these sand deposits 1282 01:48:38,040 --> 01:48:45,760 everywhere Texas Hill and it creates really Dynamic around yeah yeah so yeah 1283 01:48:44,119 --> 01:48:49,560 that adds a whole layer and Justin I know you're really familiar with that um 1284 01:48:48,119 --> 01:48:54,040 so yeah I'd love to come out and look and talk and learn more and see if 1285 01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:57,719 there's anything we could do there's half a dozen places like that 1286 01:48:56,000 --> 01:49:01,560 along the river um looks like we've got one more 1287 01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:06,320 question in the back here and then we are at time so I think this will 1288 01:49:04,639 --> 01:49:11,679 probably be our last question for the night and I'll just make a quick 1289 01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:14,880 announcement and then we'll be done so that's 1290 01:49:15,840 --> 01:49:25,080 you a nice note know mine possibly isn't just that you we talking about 1291 01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:29,599 increases in temperature and everything and we know that as the atmosphere warms 1292 01:49:27,599 --> 01:49:34,719 it's holding more moisture uh and we're talking about equilibrium and stream 1293 01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:39,400 restoration um I restore buildings but I restore them to a time period And I 1294 01:49:36,920 --> 01:49:44,440 don't know how we can restore Rivers back to a time period that 1295 01:49:42,440 --> 01:49:49,400 existed a 100 years ago when we didn't have the climate that we now have and so 1296 01:49:47,760 --> 01:49:53,239 there's not a solution here and I appreciate you guys being here but I 1297 01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:57,560 think there's a big giant El in the room that's like it's going to be 1298 01:49:55,440 --> 01:50:01,119 ridiculously humid this summer and it's going to rain like crazy we we know it's 1299 01:49:59,800 --> 01:50:04,360 going to and we don't know how bad it's going to be we know that there's culbert 1300 01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:08,320 that we put back this year that shouldn't have been put back um so any I 1301 01:50:07,119 --> 01:50:10,920 think at some point this is a great discussion I think at some point we 1302 01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:14,639 actually need to talk about like where we put these these blowouts like where 1303 01:50:13,400 --> 01:50:18,000 we're going to actually say all right we're going to give up this chunk of 1304 01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:23,159 land so these houses can survive these Bridges can survive cuz there's like 1305 01:50:20,400 --> 01:50:28,920 it's not going to just get better I ha that's why I don't want to 1306 01:50:24,360 --> 01:50:28,920 end not nothing's getting 1307 01:50:29,119 --> 01:50:37,440 better sorry 1308 01:50:33,159 --> 01:50:42,199 I great comment like really appreciate that I'll just say I think actually in 1309 01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:44,760 in some ways that it is a good place to end because it's about thinking 1310 01:50:43,239 --> 01:50:50,679 holistically and that's I think what we need to do um in 1311 01:50:47,079 --> 01:50:54,079 our especially in this community so um it's an opportunity for us to try to 1312 01:50:52,320 --> 01:50:58,440 bring all the pieces together and think about how do we think about climate 1313 01:50:56,239 --> 01:51:01,760 change and the river and the community and the peoples whose homes are imp 1314 01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:08,360 that's why this is such a complex issue is because there are so many factors um 1315 01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:11,280 it's not easy so and it and climate change is a factor and we there's so 1316 01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:15,199 much we don't know about what's going to happen in the future but working 1317 01:51:13,239 --> 01:51:20,199 together as a community is the best we can do I think to do the best we can to 1318 01:51:17,920 --> 01:51:24,800 protect people's homes when when possible and take care of each other uh 1319 01:51:22,079 --> 01:51:30,000 when flooding happens and so there are some I think positive 1320 01:51:27,920 --> 01:51:34,360 things about this bringing us together so I just want to say thank that was a 1321 01:51:32,199 --> 01:51:38,050 lot of information we got tonight a huge amount of information uh thank you guys 1322 01:51:37,159 --> 01:51:42,400 so [Music] 1323 01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:47,239 much um I'm sure we're all going to take time to absorb all of that and this will 1324 01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:53,679 be um this is being recorded and will be available and we'll let folks know once 1325 01:51:49,239 --> 01:51:58,719 it's posted um and thanks to all the volunteers who helped the setup and and 1326 01:51:56,159 --> 01:52:02,880 everything else and thank you all for engaging with the issues and being here 1327 01:52:00,560 --> 01:52:10,439 with us tonight so thanks for coming and thanks again you guys great job 1328 01:52:06,010 --> 01:52:10,439 [Music]