1
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:19,359
All right, it is 7:30. Let's call to
order the March 9th meeting of the

2
00:00:17,119 --> 00:00:25,920
zoning board of appeals. Uh, can we
start with a roll call of everyone who's

3
00:00:23,439 --> 00:00:30,960
present this fine evening? B, you want
to start us off? Freeze Stacker Smart,

4
00:00:29,599 --> 00:00:33,200
» Vincent Verna,
>> Ben Failey, chair,

5
00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:37,040
» Chris Gmbioski,
>> Andy Docker,

6
00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:44,399
» Joe Cleo, Mike Brooks. All right, so we
have a quorum. Um, we have an agenda.

7
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:48,960
Can I get a motion to approve the agenda
as presented or motion to modify?

8
00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:52,000
» Motion to approve the agenda as
presented.

9
00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:58,879
» Second. All in favor?
>> I. All right, we have an approved agenda

10
00:00:54,480 --> 00:01:05,280
uh as per the uh third item on the now
approved agenda. Any

11
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:12,320
um modifications or additions, deletions
from the January 12th meeting minutes or

12
00:01:09,439 --> 00:01:16,880
fail? If not, I would uh entertain a
motion to approve.

13
00:01:15,119 --> 00:01:19,200
» Make a motion to approve.
>> I'll second.

14
00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:20,159
» All in favor?
>> I

15
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:26,400
» I
>> Okay. meeting minutes from January

16
00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:33,759
approved which brings us to the first uh
first appeal variance request from Eric

17
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:36,960
Leman on 25615
Parkwood.

18
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:41,840
» Mr. Chairman, before we get started on
that, um Adam did arrive and that puts

19
00:01:40,079 --> 00:01:47,040
our number at eight. You can only have
seven participating.

20
00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:49,600
So, um at this point,
Vincent, you're going to be the odd man

21
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,799
out.
>> Okay. Okay.

22
00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:56,720
» So, Vincent will not be participating in
this because we have seven. You need

23
00:01:54,320 --> 00:02:01,680
four votes. Four votes to handle this.
>> May I be excused?

24
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:04,799
» You can be excused. Yes.
>> It's raining. You don't want to go out

25
00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:08,080
there.
>> It's pretty bad. This is where you want

26
00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:11,599
to It's a shelter in place.
>> Enjoy it in the basement

27
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:17,280
» scenario. All right. So,
>> okay. So, our roll call will now reflect

28
00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:24,480
that.
Uh, Adam's here. We have uh seven voting

29
00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:29,520
members and our first appeal.
Are we going in going in as presented?

30
00:02:26,959 --> 00:02:35,680
Any I think while we we this is the
agenda as approved. So we'll start with

31
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,720
uh Parkwood.
>> Come on up.

32
00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:42,640
» Y
>> All right. So we uh we want to we'll

33
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:46,480
like to get a just a a general
introduction about what you're what

34
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,800
you're looking to do. We've got some
materials already and then usually we'll

35
00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:54,000
let Hank walk us through the finer
points.

36
00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:58,640
» Great. Uh my name is Eric Leman. Uh nice
to meet you all. Uh here today to ask

37
00:02:56,319 --> 00:03:03,040
for a minor variance for lot coverage to
support an addition on our garage. We

38
00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:06,239
are in a house, one of the few houses in
Huntington Woods that doesn't have a

39
00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:09,440
basement. We do have some storage space
in the attic, but we have little kids

40
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:13,599
and we ultimately would like to add some
storage space to the garage so we have a

41
00:03:11,599 --> 00:03:17,760
more usable space there. So, we're
looking to add uh 10 feet to the garage

42
00:03:16,239 --> 00:03:21,360
uh overall, and Hank will walk you
through what the numbers ultimately look

43
00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:25,200
like. Uh but the goal here is for us to
be able to expand the garage a little

44
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:29,920
bit to provide storage space for for our
household, for our family.

45
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:32,080
» Okay. Uh Hank, you want to
>> Yeah.

46
00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:36,799
» something for us?
>> Absolutely. So, so you can see it. What

47
00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:42,239
he's looking at is you're looking at
this house, which takes up a fair amount

48
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:46,799
of the lot in and of itself. I'll point
out that it's a ranch and before I get

49
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:51,120
into all the details, ranches typically
take up a lot more room because they

50
00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:57,519
have on one floor what most places have
on two. So typically ranches, it's not

51
00:03:54,319 --> 00:04:04,799
unusual to find them in a situation
where they're at or above the lock

52
00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:09,120
coverage. So Mr. Leman is you can grab a
seat, Eric, if you want. So there's a

53
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:14,480
microphone there, too. Um, so what he's
looking at is he's adding this area

54
00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:20,000
right here. It's not in any setback
areas and it's 10 by 20. So you're

55
00:04:17,359 --> 00:04:28,160
looking at 200 square feet total is the
ask on that. So what is the lock

56
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:33,759
coverage is existing is 33.9.
The lock coverage that he's asking for

57
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:36,960
is going to be 33902.
3392.

58
00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:40,479
So it's just a little bit of an increase
into that because they do have a very

59
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:46,960
big lot. But let me go through the
request for the variance and see where

60
00:04:42,479 --> 00:04:51,280
what we have. So we're looking at one uh
special unique circumstances exists

61
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:55,600
which are peculiar to the land structure
or the building involved which are not

62
00:04:53,600 --> 00:05:00,160
generally applicable to land structures
or buildings in the same district.

63
00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:03,680
So when you're looking at this, the
current story, the current overage comes

64
00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:08,720
as a result of the design of the
architecture. You have a situation where

65
00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:13,840
you have a ranch on a lot which
typically spreads out more than it would

66
00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:18,960
anyway. Coupled in this situation, one
of the other oddities of this is there

67
00:05:15,919 --> 00:05:24,080
is no basement. So there's no place
other than the closets in the bedrooms

68
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:28,320
and little closets there. So that kind
of goes towards the architecture that I

69
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:33,280
had mentioned. Uh the house as you can
see is also on an irregular shaped lot.

70
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,720
Again the design is a ranch and the
issue becomes with the ranch is you are

71
00:05:35,039 --> 00:05:41,840
typically expected to have what space is
normally on two floors to be put all on

72
00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:45,759
one floor. And again on top of that this
particular ranch was designed and built

73
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:49,759
with no basement resulting in a severe
lack of storage. The solution of the

74
00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:53,919
garage extension would give them some
relief from the storage woes that they

75
00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:58,400
currently have. Having said that,
whether they had put an addition on the

76
00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:03,600
house or the garage, the addition would
be the same, the same size, the ask

77
00:06:01,199 --> 00:06:08,639
would be the same. It's just maybe the
location is different. So, in the back

78
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:14,479
here, just to point out a couple other
things, um, which again I may have to I

79
00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:21,120
may reiterate on later. back in through
this area in through here. The previous

80
00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:28,800
owner had put in some drainage and some
uh dry wells back in here um because it

81
00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:33,039
was damp during the early spring season.
And so she had put that in there and

82
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,880
that's not going to be anything that's
going to be any different than that.

83
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:41,280
It's still there. This is not disturbing
that in any way, shape or form. So

84
00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:45,360
again, the variance will not be injurous
to the neighbors or any other detrime or

85
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:50,400
neighborhood or otherwise detrimental to
the general public. Um again, it's

86
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:54,319
unlikely to have an impact provided the
downspouts and drainage are properly

87
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:58,479
addressed. The building department will
monitor and inspect that on the final.

88
00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:02,400
No communications have been registered
on this particular property and the

89
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:06,880
property does have storm water
mitigation measures in place from the

90
00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:09,919
previous owner. Three, special
conditions and circumstances do not

91
00:07:08,639 --> 00:07:14,880
result from the actions of the
applicant. Again, Mr. Leman did not own

92
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:20,319
or build the property, plat the lot, or
situate the house on it. It all predates

93
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:25,199
his ownership. And again, uh the same
thing with the garage, the size, and the

94
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:30,400
architecture. He had no uh he had no
input as to how the house was sized or

95
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:33,759
how the house was laid out. And four, a
literal interpretation of the provisions

96
00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:38,400
of this ordinance would deprive the
applicant of rights commonly enjoyed by

97
00:07:35,919 --> 00:07:41,919
other properties in the same district
under the terms of this ordinance and

98
00:07:40,479 --> 00:07:47,440
that the variance is the minimum
necessary. And again, the house and lot

99
00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:52,319
are over coverage as existing with no
basement. The house has no storage other

100
00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:57,199
than the smaller 1950s closets, which
offer substandard size even for clothes

101
00:07:54,639 --> 00:08:01,199
storage. While the space was cramped,
even for the 94 year old former

102
00:07:59,199 --> 00:08:05,360
resident, it stands to reason that a
young couple might face even larger

103
00:08:03,199 --> 00:08:09,360
issues. While the current garage is a
twocar garage, the family can't use it

104
00:08:07,759 --> 00:08:12,800
because the space is taken up for
storage. What they seek is an

105
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:17,599
accommodation that will allow the
expansion of the garage to 704 square

106
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:21,680
ft, which although bigger than allowed,
should give them adequate storage as

107
00:08:19,599 --> 00:08:26,319
well as provide space for vehicles that
every other lot has. And again, we did

108
00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:30,960
put some sample motions down there for
you. Um, Eric is here if there's any

109
00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:37,200
other questions that you want to ask or
if he wants to add anything to this. Um,

110
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:41,599
that house has been like that for years
and years and years and there hasn't

111
00:08:39,839 --> 00:08:45,040
been any other accommodation needed.
Whether or not the previous occupants

112
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:50,320
and I've known I know the family that
they bought it from, in fact, I went to

113
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:56,800
Burton with her son. So, I I've known
them for years, been in that house many,

114
00:08:52,240 --> 00:09:03,440
many times. And um while it is a larger
house in that particular area, there's

115
00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:08,800
not really accommodations for storage.
So, you may choose to consider that in

116
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:13,200
your deliberations with this. But those
are the four main criteria that you take

117
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:17,760
a look at. And again, I'm happy to
answer any questions that I can, as I'm

118
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:24,959
sure Mr. Leman would.
>> All right. Uh then let's proceed uh if

119
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:30,560
members of the board have questions for
the applicant or staff before we

120
00:09:28,560 --> 00:09:33,920
deliberate.
>> Do you want to have one order?

121
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:37,680
» Uh
uh however we who any

122
00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:40,640
» I don't have any questions. We can start
with me. I'll I'll pass.

123
00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:44,720
» Okay.
>> I don't have any questions right now. I

124
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:50,640
may have as we go on but I don't have
right second. I I just wanted to clarify

125
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:53,519
the the math or very So just to just if
to make sure I heard what you said,

126
00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:55,040
Hank, which is a little bit different
from what's on here.

127
00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,920
» Yes.
>> It's so it's 33.90

128
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,120
92.
>> Well,

129
00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:06,160
» it's now and they're asking for they're
asking for the little bit more for the

130
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:11,360
200 square feet.
>> So it goes from 33.92

131
00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:19,160
» that is what it is
>> to whatever the math is.

132
00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:19,160
» That is the ask. It comes out under 34%.

133
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:25,120
» It doesn't move it. It's that's the
whole that's the movement with

134
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,760
» Yeah. It doesn't move the needle.
>> Okay. That's that was what I wanted to

135
00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:32,240
understand because there's a reference
here to 42%.

136
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:36,640
» Here's the thing. The reason that that
was 42 was that was what was submitted

137
00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:44,480
originally by the applicant.
>> Um and Mr. Leman was having another Mr.

138
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:46,480
Leman help him with the math. And um
it's a little bit less than what they

139
00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,399
were talking about.
>> Okay. Well, that's I guess it's better

140
00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:53,360
to have it air in that that direction.
>> Well, it has to be because if it would

141
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,959
turned out more than what was
advertised, we couldn't have the

142
00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:57,360
meeting,
>> right?

143
00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:01,440
» Okay. So, it is uh
>> so it's 30.

144
00:10:58,079 --> 00:11:06,560
» We know we know in real terms it's two
it's 200 square feet 10 by 20,

145
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:13,920
» right? for an additional 200
>> and it's and the as a percentage of the

146
00:11:09,839 --> 00:11:15,760
overall lock coverage it is about 0.02%
02%.

147
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,720
» Yeah.
>> Difference of L.

148
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:33,040
» Okay. Got it. Uh uh other questions for
either the applicant.

149
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:38,880
» Is that not this?
>> Only question I have is just just about

150
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:43,360
to do this particular eye. Uh pvious lot
covered. Remember we use that term uh in

151
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:47,519
terms of drainage and storm water. talk
to other neighbors. That's not an issue.

152
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:52,000
» Well, it doesn't appear to be because
they have a system back behind the

153
00:11:49,279 --> 00:11:59,360
garage as it exists. And what you're
adding for was um what you're adding for

154
00:11:55,279 --> 00:12:02,480
is the 10 ft is the width and the down
spout would go on the front side of the

155
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:05,279
garage.
>> Okay.

156
00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,760
» So, it would just be pitched differently
is all.

157
00:12:05,839 --> 00:12:11,600
» Okay. That's all.
>> But I have I mean I have nothing to

158
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:15,519
believe that would lead me to believe
that that would dramatically increase

159
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:19,360
the water flow.
>> So, sorry.

160
00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:22,880
» Go ahead.
>> So, then it's that gutter is going to

161
00:12:20,959 --> 00:12:25,920
drain to that drywall you mentioned.
>> Well, the gutter is going to drain to

162
00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:30,320
the front and then if it runs back,
it'll end up in the driveway.

163
00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:34,560
» And that was my understanding in
conversations uh you know that we had

164
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:38,240
with the other Mr. Leman.
>> Okay.

165
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:41,920
» The only question I have is there all
the access to this addition is going

166
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:45,519
through the garage itself. There's no
not additional walkways that you're

167
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:50,880
going to be placing over there.
>> Uh no additional walkways. No.

168
00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:56,800
» If if you take a look at the way that
this is laid out, the driveway itself

169
00:12:53,680 --> 00:13:01,120
goes specifically to the garage. So any
access to that room would be through

170
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:04,560
what would be assumed to be a man door
or would also be access from inside the

171
00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:08,560
garage.
>> So the storage that they simply don't

172
00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:12,880
have space for inside would go outside.
So basically, it's like if you took that

173
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:17,440
and you put that somewhere else, you
would be entitled to a 10 by10 shed,

174
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,560
» which you would be entitled to, but
you'd still be over the lot coverage.

175
00:13:18,959 --> 00:13:23,680
And this way, they can attach it, get
what they need, and have a more cohesive

176
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:29,240
structure,
>> and it's in an area where they've done

177
00:13:25,279 --> 00:13:29,240
some storm water improvements.

178
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:40,959
» All right. Uh so now we will um take
comments and questions from the public

179
00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:44,600
regarding this
particular request.

180
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:55,040
» Hi Susan Considine
12727 Lasowl.

181
00:13:53,120 --> 00:14:02,079
I'm just curious how they exceeded the
lot coverage in the first place. Um was

182
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:06,880
that by ZBA variance? Was that um when
concrete was installed and nobody looked

183
00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:12,639
or was it when some some impervious
service was added uh without a permit?

184
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:17,440
Just curious.
>> I can answer that for normally we don't

185
00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:19,680
answer comments but this bill next
>> long as it doesn't cut into my three

186
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,800
minutes.
>> Well, it will but

187
00:14:20,959 --> 00:14:27,440
» Okay. Well, then don't then I'm good.
Okay. So, um, you know, I have a concern

188
00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:32,240
because we had a project come up before
the planning commission last month and

189
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:35,920
really the where the down spouts, it
just showed them going down. It didn't

190
00:14:34,079 --> 00:14:40,399
show which way they were angled. I see
little arrows on this one today. And so

191
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:44,959
I asked Hank afterward, I said, when the
building inspector goes out to give

192
00:14:42,399 --> 00:14:48,959
final approval, what are they using as
their frame of reference to refer to

193
00:14:47,199 --> 00:14:53,199
which way the down supposed are supposed
to be turned? I said, what what is he

194
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:58,800
relying on? He said, common sense. And
so I know in some of our paperwork it

195
00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:02,320
says if the zoning administrator feels
and then one time someone in the

196
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:07,519
planning commission asked Hank in your
opinion and I would say that feelings,

197
00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:12,560
opinions and common sense are personal
and idiosyncratic and I've also heard

198
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:17,519
that the previous person in his position
did a had a lot of oversightes and I've

199
00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:21,600
seen them in the records. So, I would
like to see it exactly. I I heard

200
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:25,760
something about a down spout dropping on
the driveway. Where is it? And shouldn't

201
00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:30,079
that be on there? So, when the building
inspector comes out says, "Yes, this is

202
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:33,600
built according to code." Because I've
also been hearing, "Oh, well, once

203
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:37,279
something's approved, we can't do
anything about it." So, I've been

204
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:42,800
looking at the affidavit the owner
signed that says, "Yes, I'm going to do

205
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:49,120
this according to code." And then the
building permit says um this will only

206
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:53,839
be permitted according to code. So whose
responsibility is it? You know, I think

207
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:58,880
that the owner is relying on the city to
not allow them to do anything that isn't

208
00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:03,839
correct. So the other thing too that
this survey came in and you don't see

209
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:08,480
any of the neighbors and if you uh
hopefully you guys all look at Google

210
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:12,800
aerial maps before you come in here.
There's a neighbor to the southwest that

211
00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:16,880
has a garage pretty close to the corner.
I can't tell because there's too many

212
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:21,199
trees, but I would have thought this
would have come in showing that. So

213
00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:25,519
hopefully this drywall works. But
shouldn't it say that there it's only um

214
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:31,519
allowed with a drywall in the back? Cuz
we're assuming if you figure out just

215
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:37,920
the size of the old garage, that's 4
84 square ft. And then you only have

216
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:42,160
about uh 132 square feet behind the
behind the garage. So you absolutely

217
00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:46,639
need something to manage that water. So
there's got to be something that says

218
00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:51,279
you have that installed and it must be
maintained. Um, let me see if I have

219
00:16:49,199 --> 00:16:55,440
anything else to say. Oh, yeah. Again,
there's nothing about which way the

220
00:16:52,639 --> 00:17:01,040
driveway sloped. So, we don't know how
much of the this backyard is trying to

221
00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:05,199
manage. Are they managing the full back
of the house? And, you know, you're

222
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:11,439
talking about the lot coverage. How come
there's no reference to what's the rear

223
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:14,959
lot coverage 50%. I I see these plans
come in all the time and that I've seen

224
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:21,280
one plan that came in where the
architect or the surveyor bothered to

225
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:26,799
put the rear lot coverage percentage. So
that's my input. Thank you.

226
00:17:25,439 --> 00:17:31,200
» Okay. Unless there
>> Mr. Chair, just for the record, the rear

227
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:34,799
lock coverage is right behind Chris, but
it's on there.

228
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,200
» Got it.
>> What is it?

229
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:47,280
the
>> I'll make a motion.

230
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:50,240
» Oh, first let's just I just want to make
sure there isn't any other public

231
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:54,960
comment. That's okay. We'll close public
comment.

232
00:17:51,200 --> 00:18:04,160
» Um uh the
um appellant can respond if if he so

233
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:07,520
chooses uh or we can proceed amongst the
board.

234
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:11,520
Uh, and we may have questions for you
too. It's more, you know, it's it can be

235
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,120
fluid as
>> I do recognize the concern about

236
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:19,360
drainage in Huntington Woods because we
know that there are areas in the in the

237
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:23,039
in the woods that have drainage issues.
I will say for certain that this at

238
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:28,080
least the way that this is drawn up.
This is just a lot survey. When we do

239
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:31,919
propose plans to the city, we will check
and verify with the city that our

240
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:35,919
downspouts and drainage are addressed so
that we're putting water into the yard

241
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:45,840
where the drywall will ultimately take
it away. Um, so great.

242
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:50,320
» Uh, all right. U, so now uh we can uh we
can entertain a motion and then have an

243
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:57,799
opportunity for discussion. Sandy Andy.
>> Yep. I'll move I'll move to grant the

244
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:57,799
appeal to allow from section 40-4.03-R1A

245
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:04,480
through R-1E
one family district dimension

246
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:12,559
requirements. The following dimension
requirements shall apply to the R uh-1A

247
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:16,799
through R-1E district asking for a 3.4%
lock coverage where 30% is allowed and

248
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:26,799
33.9%
exists. 22 220 square feet addition to

249
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:31,600
the garage. Uh and uh section 40-103
accessory building structures and uses

250
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:36,000
um access accessory buildings and
residential zoning districts. One no

251
00:19:33,679 --> 00:19:40,160
more than two accessory buildings or
structures may be permitted for lot a

252
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:47,200
private garage or require not to exceed
650 ft in floor

253
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:53,760
area and one other accessory building
not to exceed 100 ft in floor area may

254
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:57,919
be permitted. request for is for 700
square four square ft and as a practical

255
00:19:55,919 --> 00:20:02,320
difficulty has been established and the
use and the appeal generally meets the

256
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:06,480
requirements for a variance. I will just
say after reading all of that in the

257
00:20:03,919 --> 00:20:08,640
» well let's allow for a second I guess a
second

258
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:14,480
» okay so now we can discuss
>> after reading all that I think it's

259
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:20,320
clear that this is not a big deal uh I
think that um you know if you are

260
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:25,200
clearly to say the least inconvenience
by not having enough storage space

261
00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:28,960
» um without the basement with the small
closets which we all know about from 19

262
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:33,840
style
>> uh um you know

263
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:39,360
you don't you don't have that basement.
Uh it isn't irregularly shaped lot and

264
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:45,360
while there is a theoretical concern uh
about drainage uh I'm satisfied that

265
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:50,960
Hank who's been with us for many many
years and knows these situations well

266
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:55,280
and experience clearly instructs that if
there is a drainage problem uh he will

267
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:59,280
bring it to our attention as he has done
in past circumstances. The fact that

268
00:20:57,679 --> 00:21:04,240
there's already been mitigation back
there uh is important and I'm sure you

269
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:08,080
complied with all the notice
requirements so that your neighbors are

270
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:12,000
aware of this and therefore I feel quite
comfortable uh having moved the way I

271
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:16,520
just did.
>> I don't feel comfortable having read the

272
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,520
way I

273
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:29,360
uh any other comments for
the record or for the group to consider?

274
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:37,360
Uh okay. Yeah. I mean I just I think
we're we see a pattern of people, you

275
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:41,720
know, wanting to uh find, you know,
moderate ways or or

276
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:51,039
manageable, affordable ways to make
their houses more uh habitable in the

277
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:56,640
way that we live now with all of our
stuff and working from home sometimes

278
00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:03,520
and juggling things. So it's uh when we
can I think that it's uh it's good to uh

279
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:08,880
to allow for for that folks to stay put.
Um having said that uh we can now we

280
00:22:07,360 --> 00:22:16,240
have the motion as presented and
seconded. Uh all in favor

281
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:17,520
» opposed hearing none. Motion passes.
>> Thank you very much.

282
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,919
» Enjoy.
>> Appreciate it everybody.

283
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,320
» Are you in the neighborhood?
>> Uh two years.

284
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:26,080
» Yeah.
>> All right.

285
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:31,280
Thank you.
>> And the motion was the motion was made

286
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:36,200
by Andy and seconded by
>> um made by Joe, seconded by Andy.

287
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,760
» Okay. I just want to make sure for the
record.

288
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,760
» I didn't

289
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:54,000
streamline. He's quick.
>> He's ready. He likes to see his name.

290
00:22:50,880 --> 00:23:00,080
» Okay. So the alternative would have been
he could have added he could have built

291
00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:03,280
a 600 added he had he could have a 650
foot garage and then build an additional

292
00:23:01,679 --> 00:23:06,080
100 foot accessory building
>> which would have been

293
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:11,200
» but this is actually less lot coverage
in one cohesive architectural design.

294
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:18,559
» Yep. It's a good it's good. It's uh it's
on the books.

295
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:27,600
» Uh that brings us to uh Mark
>> Ber. Thank you Mark Filer. um at 1065

296
00:23:23,679 --> 00:23:34,159
Borgman. Uh so uh we can hear first from
the appellet about the variance you're

297
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:38,799
looking for tonight.
>> Thanks. Similar to the previous one,

298
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:42,640
been in our house about 12 years. uh
three children. Uh two of them are

299
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:48,320
drivers now. And uh although the house
is already taking up a fair amount of

300
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:54,799
the lot, um our garage was old and
rotting away. And uh we're just looking

301
00:23:51,120 --> 00:24:00,240
to put up a basic 20x 22 uh twocar
garage for additional storage uh and

302
00:23:58,159 --> 00:24:04,559
just modernizing the neighborhood. Um,
part of that also is u to address the

303
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:08,559
drainage question because that's a big
problem that we're having currently in

304
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:13,039
in the backyard um is we're also getting
estimates to as we if we were to do the

305
00:24:11,279 --> 00:24:15,840
garage, you know, repair the drainage.
We're getting estimates from Great Lakes

306
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:20,240
and a few places on some different
either French drain or this new hydronic

307
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:24,480
system they've got which looks kind of
interesting. Um but addressing the

308
00:24:22,799 --> 00:24:30,080
drainage obviously is is crucial and
then again just having just a baseline

309
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:34,320
twocar garage um you know which just add
to the house. So

310
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:40,799
» okay so for Andy's benefit there's not a
second party you'd have to read for the

311
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:43,679
the bigger garage just just rear lot
coverage. So Hank do you want to give us

312
00:24:42,559 --> 00:24:48,480
some additional context?
>> And again Mr. Chair on this there's

313
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:58,080
there's a couple things that um we
should throw in here. Mr. Filer had

314
00:24:52,080 --> 00:25:02,000
applied originally for a addition and a
garage. When he found out how much he

315
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:07,279
was going to be over on the lot
coverage, the addition went by the

316
00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:12,080
wayside. So now there's just the garage.
The garage was originally going to be

317
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:16,799
bigger. He's paired it down because uh
440, which is what he's looking for in

318
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:21,440
square foot for the garage, is the set
aside for that zone district. So, he's

319
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,760
just gone to that set aside. He was
going to be charged for that footage

320
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:30,159
anyway. So, when I say charged, I mean
in the calculations, he was going to be

321
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:36,080
charged for it. So, that was one of
those things that uh that had happened.

322
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:41,039
Then, to compound the issue, um Mr.
Filer had contracted a building company

323
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:47,919
to, you know, get a permit and build the
garage and the contractor went and tore

324
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:55,039
down the garage. So there is no garage
there now on his property whatsoever. So

325
00:25:51,440 --> 00:26:01,360
needless to say, um Mr. Filer has some
disenchantment with the entire process

326
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:08,080
as it as it came out. Um so what we did
was is we had the we had advertised this

327
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:13,120
at the original size and the original
issues that we were going to have. Now,

328
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:18,320
as it turns out, when we redid the
survey, which we did not get until last

329
00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:23,840
week, but we do have the information,
and that's what it is on there. The

330
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:31,679
actual rear yard lock coverage is going
to be uh was going to be uh what was

331
00:26:30,159 --> 00:26:33,200
» No, it wasn't going to be anywhere close
to that.

332
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:38,240
» Okay.
>> I do want to Frank, can you help me get

333
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:41,600
this up here so I can see this?
>> See the number on

334
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:44,960
I thought you were going to talk about
your contract.

335
00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:48,400
» I have a big print if you want to.
>> It's got all that on.

336
00:26:46,159 --> 00:26:55,039
» Okay. So, the lock coverage is going to
be um the rear the rear yard lock

337
00:26:51,600 --> 00:27:00,159
coverage. Let me see what we got here.
Uh it's going to be actually 46.94

338
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:04,159
square ft.
So, that was what was going to happen.

339
00:27:02,159 --> 00:27:09,840
So, realistically for that, the original
house isn't being modified. So, that is

340
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:15,039
it is what it is. that's staying the
same way it was and that was a little

341
00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:19,120
bit over. And as with the previous
thing, these houses were built before

342
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:24,400
these people had it. Like with the
previous appeal, that house was built in

343
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:29,520
1950. So I don't have any idea what
zoning ordinance was in effect. If

344
00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:36,159
anything, I had 1950. I wasn't even born
yet. But having said that, that actually

345
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:42,559
says a lot. but um to to understand what
it is. So, he's got 46.94 for rear yard

346
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:47,200
lock coverage. So, all he's really
asking for is to have his garage back

347
00:27:44,799 --> 00:27:50,880
and have everything stay the same.
>> So, what's the variance for if he's not

348
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:55,120
going over 50%?
>> He's not going over 50% of the rear

349
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:58,000
yard, but the house actually has the
lock coverage issue.

350
00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:04,080
» Oh, it's the it's not the rear.
>> So, it's Well, it is the that exists.

351
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:08,080
» Okay. So whether or not you want to
throw that in and again we got this

352
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:14,159
before we got the final figures for
this. So you can determine that the

353
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:19,120
final figures including any lock
coverage or additions for the rear yard

354
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:24,480
on the addition are still less than the
50% lock coverage and determine it that

355
00:28:22,399 --> 00:28:30,399
way. It's it's up to you what you want
to do. Or you can say that he's at 46.94

356
00:28:28,159 --> 00:28:33,559
and doesn't need to be here. Yeah,
that's amazing.

357
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:39,360
» Um
because originally we had a much bigger

358
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:44,640
number on that.
But what Mr. Filer's interest was and

359
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:48,799
and again Mark, if I'm if I'm speaking
incorrectly on this, please let me know.

360
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:53,600
» His interest was being above board on
this whole thing. particularly since the

361
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:59,279
particularly since the uh garage
existed. The contractor tore it down and

362
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:03,600
he needed the relief to come back here
and this was a big deal and we didn't

363
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:08,720
get the 46.4
sealed drawing until uh what was it?

364
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:12,640
Thursday.
>> Yeah, late Thursday.

365
00:29:09,919 --> 00:29:17,440
» Is there any prejudice to him if we
weren't to have a vote? Does it help him

366
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:21,200
to have a vote on this? Assuming we were
to vote for

367
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:24,559
» Well, I I I think that if you if you see
that this is his way, you can you you're

368
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:28,640
going to need a vote whether it's to
determine that he doesn't need to be

369
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:32,880
here or whether he or or whether you
know you're going to prove it as drawn

370
00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:39,360
as shown.
You can do that and then you know that

371
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:44,399
way he would be he would be
situated. You know, I mean ultimately

372
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:49,120
what he wants is just what he had. Yeah.
>> And that's legitimizing

373
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,080
pretty much everything he's been
through.

374
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:57,760
» Thank you for being a board.
>> Yeah. Okay. Uh

375
00:29:55,039 --> 00:30:05,279
well, we can uh take public comment now
if anyone has anything that they want to

376
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:11,120
share.
My name is John Cero. I live at 104

377
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:16,799
Fort Talbet. My my question is because I
came here with a misunderstanding I

378
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:20,720
guess. Does this exceed the 50% rare lot
coverage? If it doesn't exceed the 50%

379
00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:26,880
lot rear lot coverage if he's just
replacing the garage that existed prior,

380
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:29,279
it's confusing why we're even here on
this point.

381
00:30:28,159 --> 00:30:32,480
» Well, we have to be here.
>> I understand you have to. But I said on

382
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,600
this point, right?
>> Yeah.

383
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:40,640
» For the record, I'm going to agree with
him because he um we didn't have that

384
00:30:38,399 --> 00:30:44,880
information till late last week. So, as
we had on the original information, it

385
00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:48,000
was going to be way over. It was going
to be substantially over when the

386
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:52,880
surveyor gave us the corrected
information. That's why I said I I you

387
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:56,000
know, I wouldn't it it would not be
incorrect if you told them, you know,

388
00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:00,159
that he didn't need to be here. And I
agree with Mr. Sher.

389
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:05,360
» Yeah. I mean, if if it's over 50%, all
I'd ask the the board to do is condition

390
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:10,720
uh the approval on appropriate
elevations being taken of the neighbors

391
00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:14,240
lots and of that lot with appropriate
elevation distances so that you guys can

392
00:31:12,799 --> 00:31:18,640
actually see where the water drainage
is. If it's under 50% or 50% and it

393
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:23,440
meets the guidelines, then it is what it
is. Um, you know, it's exist I mean,

394
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:27,360
these properties subdivisions existed
for over 100 years, my understanding,

395
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:33,760
are close to 100 years. The city's been
here and the subdivision has certain

396
00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:37,519
sizes that, you know, everybody buys the
property in Huntington Woods. They know

397
00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:42,240
they're buying an old home and they know
it's the 21st century and they have

398
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:47,919
certain things that occur and you're
giving up something to be in this

399
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:52,240
community and to the extent that I mean
I heard in the last one I didn't say

400
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:57,360
anything but
the fact that that that things have

401
00:31:54,640 --> 00:32:01,679
changed in the p now compared to the
past doesn't change the fact that these

402
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:07,279
lots were designed to only have a
certain amount of uh coverage and the

403
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:12,480
city is, you know, has issues with storm
water runoff uh issues. And it's because

404
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:17,519
this the the board or I don't know if
the board, but it's because properties

405
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:22,399
are being allowed to be overdeveloped.
And what's happening is when the

406
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:26,240
properties are being overdeveloped, it's
shifting the water to a neighbor's

407
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:32,880
property. That's what happened to me
when plans were approved by the city for

408
00:32:29,919 --> 00:32:37,519
uh driveways. My property was flooded.
Nobody nobody looked at the plans.

409
00:32:35,039 --> 00:32:41,919
Nobody looked at any of the elevations.
There was no elevations. There was no

410
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:46,320
current elevation taken. And as a
result, I had I had no recourse through

411
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:50,960
the city. The city was unwilling to do
anything. And I had to take I had to

412
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:56,720
litigate and it cost me a lot of money.
My neighbors had insurance. So, you

413
00:32:53,760 --> 00:33:04,399
know, it cost me over $40,000 in a civil
engineer expert, a surveyor, and a

414
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:08,000
source cause expert. And my neighbors
had insurance because insurance covers

415
00:33:05,919 --> 00:33:12,399
this type of stuff. And it what it
happened is because this was approved,

416
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:19,679
and I'm listening to this, it's, you
know, it doesn't apply to Mr. feeler.

417
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:23,919
But if if we're not seeing a a drainage
plan before approval, if we're not

418
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:28,320
seeing elevations so you guys can see
how the water is draining, and if you're

419
00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:31,840
not seeing a civil engineer report that
says, "Yes, water will be retained on

420
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:36,399
this property. Here's the natural flow
of water and water won't increase on the

421
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:39,519
neighboring property, then it's this is
pretty much prefuncter." And

422
00:33:38,159 --> 00:33:42,640
» what was your third uh thing that you
mentioned? Drainage plan for approval,

423
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,760
civil engineer report. What was it
there? the elevations.

424
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:50,080
» Elevations, right? Not just elevations
that are 20 feet apart because there's

425
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:54,159
undulations in the wa in the property
and that could redirect the flow of

426
00:33:51,919 --> 00:33:58,159
water. There needs to be elevations
taken of properties that are more like

427
00:33:55,919 --> 00:34:03,760
5t apart. So you can actually see the
flow of water on a topographical survey.

428
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:07,360
When my my neighbors developed and I
think this happens with a lot of people

429
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,560
in this neighborhood in in the city and
that's why you're getting more and more

430
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:14,879
people coming up here complaining about
it. I mean, I I want Mr. Feler and I

431
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:19,679
want the last applicant to enjoy their
home. I mean, I just don't want their

432
00:34:17,119 --> 00:34:24,240
enjoyment to come at my expense or at a
neighbor's expense. And I think it's

433
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:28,240
super important to make sure that
nobody's taking on somebody's water

434
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:32,320
because they want a bigger home or
because they want an improvement to

435
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:37,760
their property. I bought my property as
is and it shouldn't be impacted by the

436
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:41,200
development of other properties. And
that's all I really wanted to say. I

437
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:43,919
wanted to give you my piece. Appreciate
it.

438
00:34:41,839 --> 00:34:49,520
» Thank you.
>> Can I ask a question?

439
00:34:46,879 --> 00:34:54,240
» Of the no of tank.
>> Sure.

440
00:34:50,560 --> 00:35:02,240
» I mean uh this is an issue that does
come up. Uh the drainage issue and he

441
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:06,640
just uh proposed three things that could
in a problematic matter. I'm not saying

442
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:11,200
tonight it is at all problematic matter
based on the representation made. He he

443
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:15,119
mentioned three things that could
theoretically be done. Uh a drainage

444
00:35:13,359 --> 00:35:21,200
plan for approval, civil engineer
report, and elevations 5 ft apart. I

445
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:27,040
guess my question is does the city
consider uh those types of showings when

446
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:29,280
there is what I think people would
consider a colorable or concerning

447
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:33,599
issue.
>> So the answer is yes, but it's done in a

448
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:38,640
different manner. When you're looking at
a garage or something specific that does

449
00:35:35,839 --> 00:35:44,880
not go to the planning commission, then
if Dwayne, who's our building official,

450
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:50,160
sees something that he feels is uh less
or or concerning to him about it, he can

451
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:55,520
order additional information and he can
order additional studies. like with the

452
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:59,280
last one where um I was aware that there
was the water mitigation measures

453
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:03,280
undertaken
and uh the way that it was explained to

454
00:36:01,599 --> 00:36:07,440
me that how they were going to do that
and everything with the downspouts that

455
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:12,640
still has to get through our building
department. So if whether it's him,

456
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:17,359
whether it's Mr. Filer, or whether it's
uh anybody else, that still has to get

457
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:22,560
through our building official. So that's
the second check and balance on that. So

458
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:27,520
if in if in the event that let's just
say I was completely wrong, let's just

459
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:31,599
say I was way off the charts wrong on
it, then Dwayne would have an

460
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:35,520
opportunity to correct that. And
Dwayne's our building official. He's

461
00:36:33,359 --> 00:36:42,560
been a ACT 54 certified building
official for I want to say 40 years.

462
00:36:39,839 --> 00:36:45,839
» My only question response to that and I
I obviously trust your judgment

463
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,800
implicitly. Well, but you you don't have
to.

464
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:53,599
» But what I'm saying is I I do think this
is coming up enough

465
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:59,839
» that we should uh have a discussion at
an appropriate time, not while your you

466
00:36:56,720 --> 00:37:04,000
know variance request is pending uh to
make sure we understand it and make sure

467
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:07,440
we understand what proof should
reasonably required in X situation and Y

468
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:11,599
situation.
>> So here's a excellent opportunity for

469
00:37:09,599 --> 00:37:17,280
that to happen. you got the memo about
the ZBA and the planning commission

470
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:23,359
joint meeting. That would be a great
point to to bring up and say agenda

471
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:28,800
» this is yeah this is being asked here
>> and then um you know even though it's

472
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:33,119
not necessarily something that the ZBA
typically considers is you're

473
00:37:30,240 --> 00:37:37,599
considering dimensional variances
>> um if the ordinance is adjusted which

474
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:43,839
the planning commission is in the
process of if the ordinance is adjusted

475
00:37:41,359 --> 00:37:48,960
then um it could be adjusted to the
point where you would have a greater

476
00:37:45,839 --> 00:37:54,079
degree of certainty that it's being
managed in a manner that's more

477
00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:58,400
consistent with the changing times, the
climates, the additional rains that

478
00:37:55,839 --> 00:38:01,280
we're having and that. So, that would be
a discussion that would be great to have

479
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,680
at that point.
>> I would welcome that person.

480
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,720
» So, absolutely.
>> All right. Well, let's continue with

481
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:10,720
public comment and then we can uh
>> I'm sorry.

482
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:15,200
» That's okay. Yeah. So, just to add to
what John was saying, remember the old

483
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:20,880
Wendy's? Where's the beef? Where are the
calculations? Because again, the 50% lot

484
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:26,480
coverage, that's good. I'm glad it
showed up on this one. But again, it

485
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:31,119
matters which way the driveway sloped.
Uh, is there enough grass to manage how

486
00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:35,119
much of the house is coming onto it?
Then when the next house comes up, you

487
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:40,240
you'll see they're draining. It looks
like their entire driveway is draining

488
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:44,079
to the right of way and the whole uh
western side of their house drains onto

489
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:50,240
the driveway. And so the city is going
to ask uh residents to pay more money

490
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:55,920
for sewers. And yet I've been coming to
planning commission meetings for not

491
00:38:52,880 --> 00:39:00,320
quite a year yet and I don't see a whole
lot of attention to storm water. I don't

492
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:04,960
see calculations and it makes a
difference. Even that the first house

493
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:10,240
that came up was the driveway sloping
toward the back because then is there

494
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:14,320
dry well sufficient to manage the garage
and anything else that's coming toward

495
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:20,079
it? You guys have no idea. I mean, maybe
Hank does. I don't know. But it wasn't

496
00:39:15,839 --> 00:39:24,720
on the drawing. So, um I wish I have a
list. I'd like the city to do a whole

497
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:28,640
overhaul on storm water management. And
we should be looking at some of our

498
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:34,000
checklists because we had a resident who
came forward to complain about water

499
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:39,200
from two new builds. And then when we
um Dan came out, Goslin comes out and I

500
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:43,599
guess he thought everything was fine
because she never heard from them. And

501
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:50,240
then we start digging into the files and
we can't even find an asbuilt survey.

502
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:54,720
And that's a requirement and it's been a
requirement since 2005 and the house was

503
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:59,359
built in 2015.
And the same thing happened to me. Big

504
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:03,920
garage went up behind me. Then they put
a new driveway, changed the slope, and

505
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:09,680
the drive concrete permit doesn't show
the slope. And I'm flooded up to like

506
00:40:07,119 --> 00:40:14,880
this high with ducks all the way up.
I've got a 22 foot deep garage with 20

507
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:18,400
ft behind me and I was flooded up almost
to the front and then I have no

508
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:22,240
recourse. It's all like, oh, your down
spouts are turned the right way but not

509
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:26,160
where they're flowing. So, I just want
to add to I'd like to see some

510
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:30,079
calculations. You know, it's not rocket
science. There's cities that are

511
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:34,240
actually requiring the homeowner to
calculate their storm water and show

512
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,599
which way it's running. and our planning
commission needs to start paying

513
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,839
attention to that because I can't
believe how many program projects they

514
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:45,520
just let through and there's no clear
idea where the storm water is going.

515
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:50,320
It's like well we feel it could be a
problem or so I'd like to see some

516
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,839
calculations.
Thank you.

517
00:40:51,040 --> 00:41:02,800
» Okay, thank you. That
concludes public comment. Uh

518
00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:07,520
the appellant can respond if you want.
All right. Um, so before we entertain a

519
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:14,240
motion,
my I'm I'm I'm not, you know, here to

520
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:18,319
make an executive decision, but my as I
understand the inclination, it's good

521
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:24,000
you're here and you'll, you know, want
to have a garage back and I'm sure it'll

522
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:31,599
be nicer than the one before. Uh my the
hunch is to just interpret that there

523
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:38,720
isn't a need for a variance and that
uh that you you know you you have

524
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:43,599
the green light in in the absence of one
to build what you what you're proposing

525
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:48,560
to the city to build. Again, that's uh
if someone does want to entertain, want

526
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:52,319
to propose a motion, we can certainly
make a motion.

527
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:56,160
» Well, that would be
uh maybe

528
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,319
» make the motion.
>> What happens? It shouldn't it shouldn't

529
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:01,760
come from the chair.
>> I know, but isn't that the motion?

530
00:41:59,839 --> 00:42:05,200
» What happens if we say, "Hey, we don't
they don't need a variance." What What

531
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:08,400
is the process after that? if he doesn't
need a variance, he goes and gets a

532
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:12,480
building permit and he'll have to supply
the same information

533
00:42:10,079 --> 00:42:15,920
» and the survey to Dwayne to look at and
so he'll be taking a look at that.

534
00:42:14,319 --> 00:42:21,440
» Can I can I ask Hank a question while
we're just absolutely on the subject?

535
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:25,520
» Is there a storm drain running down the
back side of this property line on this

536
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:28,720
side of Orman? I know there's one that
runs down

537
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:35,160
north side.
>> Can you help

538
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,160
in some places?

539
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:56,000
Yeah, there we go. So, were you saying
that on the back side of this alley?

540
00:42:54,079 --> 00:43:00,000
» Yeah, I'm just I can't I don't see one
here, but I know that, you know, we do

541
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:03,040
have them that run down that back.
>> We do have them. If it was back there,

542
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:05,680
it would be noted on there.
>> Okay.

543
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:10,000
» Because in the easements, they're
supposed for the surveys, they're

544
00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:14,240
supposed to do that. Having said that,
um it wouldn't be a situation where they

545
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:19,760
would be able to tap that by right or
anything. Um but he did mention that he

546
00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:25,359
had talked to Great Lakes about a system
other than drainage and it's a Jeep

547
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:31,200
system. It's a system that's newer and
what it does is it puts rods into the

548
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:37,200
ground which creates space in the ground
for the water to circulate even in clay.

549
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:42,000
So which I will promise you his lot is
clay. So um

550
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,520
» we're shocked.
>> Well that's because we all a lot of us

551
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:49,920
live in the same area and they're the
same thing. Chris has got the same I got

552
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:55,599
the same you know I mean it's it's play
unless you're up on the hill. So, um,

553
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:59,839
then that's that's what it would be, but
he still has to do that. So, he'll have

554
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:04,560
to satisfy Dwayne that that's and and
that's in in part on that. So, he'll my

555
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:08,640
guess is he'll be in for permit
tomorrow.

556
00:44:06,319 --> 00:44:14,720
So, that'll get to Dwayne. Dwayne's in
on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Um,

557
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:21,200
I mean, and if you like if you like, I
can, you know, give you whatever Dwayne

558
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:25,280
finds on it, just as an FYI. Um because
I would really love it if somebody would

559
00:44:23,119 --> 00:44:28,160
bring that up planning commission at the
joint meeting and you have that

560
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:32,160
discussion.
>> So that information might be helpful for

561
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:36,480
that.
>> Can I make a short motion to redeem

562
00:44:33,839 --> 00:44:41,520
myself?
>> You're fine.

563
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:49,040
I move based on the representations made
tonight that there is no need for a

564
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:52,880
varian and that the uh applicant uh can
proceed with uh the plan that he's

565
00:44:51,839 --> 00:44:56,480
presented to us.
>> Yep.

566
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:59,440
» I'll second that. Provided it's approved
by the building department.

567
00:44:57,599 --> 00:45:04,160
» Provided by the building department.
>> Okay.

568
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:10,400
» Uh we have a second. Uh couple but a
couple second by uh other thoughts

569
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:17,920
before we take a vote.
>> Uh okay. Uh so all in favor of the of

570
00:45:14,319 --> 00:45:24,400
the motion as succinctly presented uh
>> I all in favor opposed.

571
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:31,359
» All right. No opposition. So uh in lie
of a variance you can proceed with your

572
00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:33,200
30 something procession. Thank you.
>> Go build.

573
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:38,040
» All right.
>> Thanks, Mark.

574
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,040
» Thank you.

575
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:50,720
» Final
variance request from David Ellenburgg

576
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:56,480
at 13
332 Lello. Uh

577
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:58,640
you want to come to the podium or or
there's fine and we'll hear from you

578
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:04,000
first.
>> Thanks. Thanks for letting me present

579
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:10,160
the project. Um, real real brief, uh, we
are two two big parts of the project.

580
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:15,839
Number one is just exterior facelift,
modernized, new, you know, new fiber

581
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:22,240
siding, shale, new metal porch roof,
just just cosmetic uh, facelift on the

582
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:26,800
house. And then the second part is a
master bedroom over an existing family

583
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:30,880
room. So, we have an existing family
room in the back. Um, and we just want

584
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,800
to put a master bedroom. It's gone
through uh several improvements and

585
00:46:33,359 --> 00:46:40,160
iterations with the planning
commission's input and a lot of help

586
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:44,319
from Hank and um we've really uh put in
a bunch of improvements to get it to

587
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:47,359
where it is now and uh that's what we're
asking for.

588
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:53,520
Hank,
>> thank you. So, um the ask here is 154

589
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:57,920
square feet and the house is a little
bit unique in that um what he's doing is

590
00:46:55,920 --> 00:47:02,079
he's building out the second floor over
the first floor. So, there's a lot

591
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:06,640
relation to the foundation, but there's
also some relating to the planning

592
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:11,280
commission appearance that um David
Alenberg has just been through. So, let

593
00:47:09,359 --> 00:47:15,839
me go through and I'll take you and then
again if there's any questions certainly

594
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:19,920
you can ask them. So again with this one
one is special or unique conditions or

595
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:23,760
circumstances exist which are peculiar
to the land structure or building

596
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:29,200
involved which are not generally
applicable to other land structures or

597
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:35,119
building in the same district. So the
existing house foundation designs have

598
00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:40,560
determined the layout. So it's a square,
it's a rectangle except for the bottom

599
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:46,079
has a cutout. There's a little cutout in
the back of it. So the cutout is going

600
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:50,400
straight. He's going straight for the
second floor, not over the cutout, which

601
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:56,720
is providing a roof over the second
floor and space in the bedroom up above.

602
00:47:53,839 --> 00:48:00,400
So there's a couple reasons that that's
important. If you take a look at the

603
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:03,680
plan, the back area is covered by the
second floor, which accounts for a

604
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:08,400
portion of the overage that he's looking
for. The overage in that area right

605
00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:14,000
sizes the room and allows for more
fenestration. Why is that important? The

606
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:19,040
planning commission requires 20%
fenestration on the elevations. So he

607
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:23,119
had to have the elevation. So either you
crowd walls that that shouldn't

608
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:27,520
necessarily have it with windows with
windows or you spread it out. If you

609
00:48:25,839 --> 00:48:34,480
take a look at the area that he's
looking at for that and uh let's

610
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:39,280
I'm sorry. Hold on. Let me
we don't have our usual equipment set up

611
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:47,440
here. So I apologize. So, when you take
a look at this here, um, on the top

612
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:51,839
part, uh, the top left one, the front is
to the right, the bottom is to the left,

613
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:56,720
the the back is to the left. So, you see
where the second floor is over the first

614
00:48:54,400 --> 00:49:01,680
floor, supported by a post, right, where
the down spout comes down. So, you could

615
00:48:59,359 --> 00:49:05,520
see that that's what's supporting that.
So, that area right there, which doesn't

616
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:09,520
have it on the first floor, would have
it on the second floor. So what's

617
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:14,240
important about that? If you take a look
at it on the west elevation, you see

618
00:49:12,319 --> 00:49:19,520
that what's occupying that space on the
second floor is obviously ground floor

619
00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:23,119
is obviously floor, but it's also a
window which helps to meet the the

620
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:29,200
fenestration requirements of the
planning commission. Also take a look at

621
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:33,839
that on the north elevation and you'll
see a window in the back corner as well.

622
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:39,119
So that's where a lot of the
fenestration and the balancing of the

623
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:43,520
fenestration is happening. So that's one
thing that he also has to have. And

624
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:49,440
again, the total area that the maximum
house size for the house is 2695

625
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:55,119
is what he's asking for where 2541 is
permitted. Um and then two, the variance

626
00:49:53,680 --> 00:50:00,000
will not be injurous to the neighborhood
or otherwise detrimental to the general

627
00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:03,280
welfare. it's unlikely to have an impact
provided that the downspouts are

628
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:07,520
properly addressed and again the
building department will monitor inspect

629
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:12,640
that on the final uh neighborhood
communication that was in favor of the

630
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:16,800
project is included. So you have seen
that the neighbor that's affected on

631
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:21,839
that side in particular is fine with it.
Not that that's the end all to it, but

632
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:25,440
it's it's a contributing factor. Three,
special conditions and circumstances are

633
00:50:23,839 --> 00:50:29,680
not result of the actions of the
applicant. The Ellenberg family did not

634
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:35,520
own or build the property, plat the lot
or situate the house on it. It all

635
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:39,440
predates his ownership. So
also that would mean the configuration

636
00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:44,559
of the house, whether the first floor
had to cut in and walk out door to the

637
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:49,520
back or whether you know the the size of
the house, the configuration on the lot.

638
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:52,880
So that's what that would encompass. Uh
and four, a literal interpretation of

639
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:56,640
the provisions of this ordinance would
deprive the applicant of rights commonly

640
00:50:54,800 --> 00:51:00,079
enjoyed by other properties in the same
district under the terms of this

641
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:05,839
ordinance and that the variance is the
minimum necessary. Again, the ask here

642
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:09,440
is 154 square feet for house size. They
did have planning approval as planning

643
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:13,680
commission thought the design made
sense. While exact adherence to the

644
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:18,079
standard may determined to be a bit of a
stretch, the ask is the minimal to

645
00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:21,440
square off the house and keep the
fenistration.

646
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:25,680
So as required by the planning
commission and allow the plan to provide

647
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:30,559
reasonable use of the interior. So let's
take a look at that part of it. So if

648
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:36,720
you take a look at the upper level here.
So where this room is in the back right

649
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:41,040
over here where you see the cursor. So
you've got the one window here, the one

650
00:51:38,559 --> 00:51:46,000
window here. If you see the doorway goes
into here, there's very little room. So,

651
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:52,000
this opens up and this is the space that
is the rectangle for the bedroom. So,

652
00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:57,920
while this is an entryway over here,
this area here is the area of concern.

653
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:02,160
So, um what uh Mr. Alenberg and I have
discussed is that this area here, if

654
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:06,800
you're looking at kind of where I'm
going with this,

655
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:12,240
that's kind of the area right there that
he's asking for. Um, and then one of the

656
00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:16,800
other mitigating factors is the house
already is one of those colonials that

657
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,760
if you take a look at it, it's got the
one- foot canal lever in the front of

658
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:23,200
the house.
>> So, right away, there's the one foot

659
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:28,640
canal lever that's in the front of the
house that he can't redesign that.

660
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:33,040
That's already there.
>> So, and if you take a look at that,

661
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:36,880
that's 30 foot wide by 18 inches or
whatever it is. There's a there's a

662
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:42,400
significant amount of square footage
that's taken up by the canal lever and

663
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:46,880
by that cutout, which if you add the two
together, you get pretty close and you

664
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:51,440
don't get you don't get to 154 square
feet, but you don't get that far from

665
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:55,599
it. So, what he's really asking to do is
to square off the second floor. Um,

666
00:52:54,079 --> 00:53:00,160
we've been through the plan a bunch of
times. It's not something where he can

667
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:04,160
shave anything off the back of it
because if you shave it off the back of

668
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:09,920
it, then he falls inside of the
foundation. So, you can't reasonably do

669
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:15,200
that. And the other thing is is that you
can't take out the canal lever in the

670
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:20,559
front because that's already built. So,
those are a couple of the things that

671
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:25,280
have structural, you know, concerns. Um,
you have the proposed uh motions there

672
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:28,720
and I'm sure that David can answer any
questions or I'm happy to take any

673
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:35,839
questions from you all that if you if
you want for it. But it's actually it's

674
00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:41,920
not a huge ask for this lot on this
house on this lot because realistically

675
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:47,400
most houses like that are built squared.
>> Great. Uh, all right. Let's open the

676
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:47,400
floor to public comment.

677
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:55,280
This one have rear lot coverage on it.
>> There's no reading. There's no addition

678
00:53:53,920 --> 00:54:00,880
to the rear lot.
>> Okay. So, this is a good point is I

679
00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:05,520
think if anybody's coming asking for a
variance, somebody's got to step in from

680
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:08,960
Huntington Woods and look at the storm
water. When this came before the

681
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:13,200
planning commission, I brought up that
the backyard has already exceeded the

682
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:17,119
rear lock coverage and they were like,
"Well, it's already there. We can't do

683
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:23,760
anything about it." So, who's going to
step in? Because if you look at this um

684
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:28,240
look at the northeast downspout, it
looks like it risks flooding. Uh all

685
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:32,640
these houses have the same house number
on it. Uh so I'm guessing next door is

686
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:37,599
13328.
And again, you've got uh it looks like

687
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:41,200
is there concrete behind the garage? Uh
I can't remember where the down spouts

688
00:54:39,359 --> 00:54:48,160
drop here, but if you're going to allow
an increase, can all that backyard

689
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:55,520
manage it? And then again, like ho how
many uh how many uh increases can they

690
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:58,800
get? And based on the little bit I can
see on the driveway, it looks like they

691
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:02,880
drain their whole driveway to the
street. And so I don't know if the

692
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:07,200
garage is draining because you don't
have downspouts on there. I thought that

693
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:11,599
was required to submit. And then they're
draining a lot of their western water.

694
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:15,839
And so when the city comes to me and
wants me to pay higher taxes for the

695
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:19,839
sewer, when I'm trying to manage as much
water in my own backyard and somebody

696
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:26,000
else can just run as much as they want
to the street, that's not very fair. In

697
00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:31,760
other cities, Oak Park is even um
charging sewer rates based on how much

698
00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:36,000
water people are putting into the city
sewer. And right now, as far as I can

699
00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:39,280
see, Huntington Woods does not look at
that. Like, you want to run your whole

700
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:42,800
driveway to the street and you're at the
minimum setback in the back. You want to

701
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:46,800
drop your driveway on the driveway and
run it to the street, too. Oh, sure.

702
00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:50,720
That's okay. You know, there I don't see
any of that coming up. Once in a while,

703
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:56,160
it shows up if an architect or surveyor
does. And so, you know, this hands off

704
00:55:53,839 --> 00:56:00,720
if somebody went over their lot coverage
before. Was this done with a permit? Was

705
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:06,960
it done? You know, I'm seeing plans
where um it's approved with a little

706
00:56:03,359 --> 00:56:11,119
tiny patio in the back and then you look
at the house on aerial maps and it's got

707
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:14,799
a huge patio. And so that's why I told
Hank, shouldn't we have some frame of

708
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:22,319
reference for the final building
inspector? Because then we don't know,

709
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:26,559
did Huntington Woods approve it or did
um the homeowner pour the pour the

710
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:31,920
concrete later when they already knew
they were at 50%. And I found some where

711
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:36,880
houses are over, all you have to do is
scroll through aerial maps. A house is

712
00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:43,040
over 50%. And then I see they get a
permit to add a gazebo and a what do you

713
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:46,720
call it? A hot tub in the back. So the
building inspector approved the hot tub

714
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:52,079
and they were already questionable at
50% and the hot tub definitely put them

715
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:56,480
over and but it went through. So, I
don't see enough checkpoints in this

716
00:56:53,920 --> 00:57:00,880
process. And I think anytime you're
asking for a variance, anytime you've

717
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:04,079
exceeded anything, and I'm I regret I
didn't bring it, there is something in

718
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:11,119
the code that as soon as something gets
altered, everything else has to be up

719
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:15,280
for u to have eyeballs on it. So, I'm
just the planning commission didn't do

720
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:18,400
anything when this house came up. So, I
hope that you will. Thank you.

721
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:22,240
It's
>> interesting. almost like a biocale

722
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:24,880
clause or something.
>> All right. Uh

723
00:57:23,119 --> 00:57:28,000
» Mr. Chair, can I can I just because
there was a point made that I I just

724
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,559
want to clarify.
>> Certainly.

725
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:33,520
» So, if you're taking a look at this
particular one and you see the shots

726
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:37,359
that are on this,
>> you see the shots are lower on the

727
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:41,200
inside of the property. So, it drains
from the property line towards the

728
00:57:38,799 --> 00:57:44,640
inside of the property in the rear yard.
So, it doesn't drain onto the neighbor's

729
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:49,200
property there. If you take a look at
the shots, you'll be able to see that

730
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:55,280
it's clear on the front page. And then
from the from the back of the house

731
00:57:52,480 --> 00:58:00,400
forward, it absolutely does come down
the driveway towards the front towards

732
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:07,640
the street. Um as does every lot on the
street.

733
00:58:02,079 --> 00:58:07,640
» Okay. Uh any additional public comment?

734
00:58:07,839 --> 00:58:16,240
» John Spir44 Talbet. wasn't going to make
a comment until um uh that statement was

735
00:58:14,559 --> 00:58:19,599
just made. You're looking at elevations,
sir. You're looking at elevations. It

736
00:58:17,839 --> 00:58:24,000
may not apply to his, but you're looking
at elevations where you have one point

737
00:58:21,599 --> 00:58:27,680
and then 40t away or 30 feet away or 20
feet away, you're taking another

738
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:32,480
elevation and you're coming to a
conclusion that the water drains this

739
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:38,000
way. That's just not not so water
doesn't d I mean you're you're ignor if

740
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:41,920
you if you take that as the gospel then
you're ignoring whatever's in between

741
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:45,280
those two elevation points and that
whatever is in between those two

742
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:50,559
elevation points have a significant
determination on where the water flow is

743
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:54,640
going. So, I think it's a misnomer to
say, "Oh, well, they took an elevation

744
00:58:52,319 --> 00:58:58,319
from the corner of the home and then
there's an elevation at the bottom of

745
00:58:56,319 --> 00:59:04,240
the driveway. Therefore, the water must
run this way." And I just, you know, I

746
00:59:00,799 --> 00:59:07,040
urge the the panel or the board to, you
know, in the future take that into

747
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:10,319
consideration when you're looking at
elevation. You need more elevations than

748
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:14,319
a few.
>> I I would also suggest that Mr. sure

749
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:17,520
will come to the planning commission the
joint meeting because whatever his

750
00:59:16,079 --> 00:59:21,359
comments are
>> um they may be valid but based on the

751
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:26,160
information that we have here this is
what I can determine

752
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:32,319
» so if he's saying which he may well be
that the the information that the shots

753
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:37,760
are not sufficient in quantity
to make that statement 100%

754
00:59:35,839 --> 00:59:41,760
then maybe we need to have more shots or
maybe we need to require them and uh I

755
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:43,520
mean I'd appreciate if you show up
planning commission and make some

756
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,119
comments.
>> I'll be there because

757
00:59:44,319 --> 00:59:48,799
» absolutely would.
>> I've had two court decisions in my favor

758
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,640
on this exact point
>> and I shouldn't have had to go through

759
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:52,240
that point.
>> That may be helpful.

760
00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:55,400
» Okay.
>> Thank you.

761
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:04,079
» All right.
Any further public comment? Uh hearing

762
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:10,319
none, we'll close public comment. Uh
give the appellent an opportunity to

763
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:15,200
respond if he wishes. Okay. then uh we
can

764
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:19,520
uh entertain a motion and and discuss.
>> Okay, I'll make the motion question

765
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:22,799
» uh or or questions for the staff first
if that's uh whatever works.

766
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:26,000
» Whatever you want to do.
>> Yeah, go ahead. If you if there's

767
01:00:24,079 --> 01:00:32,599
something you want to ask Hank or the or
the appellent before we entertain a

768
01:00:27,839 --> 01:00:32,599
motion, that is that is good times.

769
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:39,280
Okay. Uh Joe, did you have
>> Yeah, I was going to make a motion.

770
01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:45,599
Yeah. Move to grant the appeal to allow
matter of of variance request from David

771
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:53,000
Ellensburg at 13332
LLO and take public comment for the

772
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:53,000
following variance section 40-4.03-R1A

773
01:00:55,839 --> 01:01:03,920
through R-1E one family district
dimensional requirements. The follow

774
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:10,240
dimensional requirements shall apply to
R1A to R1E

775
01:01:07,119 --> 01:01:15,920
districts. Maximum house height and
asking to exceed the maximum house size

776
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:21,680
for uh 2,695
square ft for 2541

777
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:27,040
square feet is permitted. the total
overage request of 154 square feet as it

778
01:01:25,359 --> 01:01:33,520
meets the intent of the ordinance and
would lessen the burden and do sub do

779
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:39,520
substantial justice to the applicant.
>> All right. Uh

780
01:01:36,799 --> 01:01:43,920
we should have a second or an amendment.
Okay. Seconded. Any

781
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:48,799
» further discussion before we
>> have a quick question.

782
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:57,520
» Go ahead. Um, was there any thought
taken in a way to make the proposed

783
01:01:53,280 --> 01:02:04,160
addition fit? Like I understand
it's not a big portion and it's just the

784
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:08,079
small corner, but um like was there
thought like what you know is there a

785
01:02:06,319 --> 01:02:13,520
way to do the additional?
>> Yeah, we the short answer is yes. We've

786
01:02:11,119 --> 01:02:18,559
been working at this since since I think
last almost 12 months, you know, couple

787
01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:21,760
trips to the planning commission. We've
looked at everything. It's Yeah. And

788
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:25,839
it's
>> the short answer is yes. I wanted to try

789
01:02:23,839 --> 01:02:32,400
to get it and we we got it a lot closer.
Initially, it was 280. The ask was 280

790
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:36,240
something and we, you know, they tabled
it at the planning commission. They were

791
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:39,440
helpful and gave us recommendations. But
yeah, we've been back and forth on this.

792
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:45,599
Myself and Hank have become fast
friends. So the the short answer is yes.

793
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:50,240
We you know it got to the point where it
was kind of

794
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:53,760
» this this is what we're able to do and
you know either we can do it or we can't

795
01:02:51,839 --> 01:02:57,760
do it. It wasn't feasible to do
anything.

796
01:02:55,440 --> 01:03:01,119
» Yeah, for sure. No, no, I appreciate the
question.

797
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:04,960
» I would say I I like this plan a lot.
I'm super comfortable approving it. I

798
01:03:02,559 --> 01:03:09,280
mean, you're going up, not out. Um but I
out of respect to the uh you know

799
01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:12,240
questions raised here in the commentary
given

800
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:17,599
» I we got a lot of smart people in this
neighborhood and I think vegetation and

801
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:22,000
clever ground grading as a long-term
solve to you know the water issues we

802
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:24,160
have is something that um you know we
can explore and probably figure out

803
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,799
something that works great for
everybody.

804
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:32,559
» Very good. All right. Any other comments
or questions?

805
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:37,039
» I'm not comfortable with this one. Uh,
and I'm not going to recommend people

806
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:44,160
don't vote for it, but I think this is
just stretching the u criteria a little

807
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:48,640
bit too much. Uh, I I I just don't see
this as an extreme situation where a

808
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:53,760
variance is required, but I also
understand that it's a small ask and

809
01:03:51,359 --> 01:03:59,839
there's got to be discretion exercised.
Uh I just personally am not hearing

810
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:04,960
what's particularly unique or what the
particular real exigent need is. And I'm

811
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:11,680
one of these guys who really believes
that the uh ordinance have to have real

812
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:15,599
integrity and that um you know there was
a comment earlier that I've kind of

813
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:20,799
espoused many times before which is you
do buy your home knowing you know what

814
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:25,520
the limitations on expansion are. And I
know that there's a very important

815
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:29,039
consideration about the homeowner being
able to do what he or she wants with the

816
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:34,000
home. I'm just not hearing it on this
one personally, but I understand, sir,

817
01:04:31,359 --> 01:04:37,760
that this is a small ask uh and it's
just for my comfort levels.

818
01:04:35,839 --> 01:04:44,559
» Appreciate it.
>> Any other comments before we vote? All

819
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:49,359
right, then. Uh all in favor of the
motion as presented,

820
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:54,160
uh this would be the time to vote.
>> Okay. Uh opposed, one opposed. So, your

821
01:04:52,559 --> 01:04:57,680
motion passes.
>> Good luck with your project very much.

822
01:04:56,400 --> 01:05:02,559
» Thank you. Appreciate that.
>> Uh, before we

823
01:04:59,839 --> 01:05:07,000
conclude, we will open the floor back up
to general public participation.

824
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:20,799
How can we house on a slide?
>> So, I've been trying to see um one one

825
01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:26,559
of my other comrades says uh you know
when when a neighbor gets water from

826
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:31,920
somebody else, whose problem is it?
Because that water wouldn't have been

827
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:36,640
coming if the city hadn't approved a
structure

828
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:42,960
or an installation.
So why is it that the person who gets

829
01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:48,160
the water has to fight?
And if something's put in and somebody

830
01:05:45,359 --> 01:05:53,520
gets water that they didn't get and the
city approves something, maybe the city

831
01:05:51,039 --> 01:05:59,280
should have to prove that it's not
giving them water. So, I just wanted to

832
01:05:56,799 --> 01:06:04,240
read I Hank will have to tell you if
these are still active, but in looking

833
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:11,440
through city files, I found there's a
homeowner affidavit. I call it the I'm

834
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:15,920
looking for the city's CYA clauses. Um I
certify that I am familiar with the

835
01:06:13,839 --> 01:06:20,559
provisions of the applicable ordinance
and the rules governing the types the

836
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:26,480
type of installation and hereby agree to
make installation in conformance with

837
01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:32,640
the ordinance. Now this is 1999 so maybe
it's changed. Okay. So the so the so the

838
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:39,599
homeowner is saying okay I'll do it. But
then um but then the city comes in and

839
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:46,799
they have a clause with the uh with the
permit that says permission is hereby

840
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:51,839
granted for construction in accordance
sorry should brought up in my thing

841
01:06:49,359 --> 01:06:55,920
anyway based on in accordance and
subject to all applicable ordinances.

842
01:06:54,319 --> 01:07:02,000
Sorry I can't get my phone to work right
now. So who who's responsible? the city

843
01:07:00,319 --> 01:07:06,559
says, "We're not going to let you do it.
It has to be according to." So, they

844
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:12,160
think it is. And then, you know, we've
seen projects come up where they approve

845
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:16,559
the house, but they don't approve the
driveway. We So, we don't know which way

846
01:07:14,559 --> 01:07:21,440
the driveway is being sloped. So, again,
it's not just 50% rear lot coverage. We

847
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:24,880
need to see a storm water management
plan when these come in. Which way's the

848
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:27,839
driveway sloped? I almost never see
where's the high point of the driveway

849
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:32,079
so we know what's going to the back,
what's going to the front. Um I I've

850
01:07:30,319 --> 01:07:35,839
seen so many projects come up that don't
have downspouts marked. So again, we're

851
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:39,839
just going to have to rely on that the
guy who comes through has common sense

852
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:44,559
and they're in the right spot. But then
if a neighbor starts getting water, like

853
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:48,640
there's a home over on Hart, I found the
the plan in the in the down spouts or in

854
01:07:47,119 --> 01:07:52,640
the front of the garage, probably
draining on the to the driveway, going

855
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:56,640
all the way to the street, putting more
burden on the city sewer system because

856
01:07:54,559 --> 01:08:02,720
they have less than 50% in their
backyard and no ZBA variance to get it.

857
01:08:01,039 --> 01:08:07,359
And so it says they're in the front and
I drive by and they're in the back. So

858
01:08:05,599 --> 01:08:11,200
what did the We have no record now.
Well, what did the city approve? Did

859
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:15,359
they approve it to the plan, but the
homeowner moved the downspout? You know,

860
01:08:13,440 --> 01:08:17,199
we don't have good records, so we don't
know.

861
01:08:16,480 --> 01:08:20,640
» But we don't know.
>> Just a comment. That's why you need to

862
01:08:19,040 --> 01:08:24,640
come to the planning commission so that
we can get requirements I put in there.

863
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:28,080
» This is this is not
>> I come to the meetings. I've been told

864
01:08:26,239 --> 01:08:30,480
maybe residents will be invited to
participate, but so far that hasn't

865
01:08:29,759 --> 01:08:34,159
happened.
>> Well, we don't even have a framework

866
01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:38,799
ordinance together yet.
>> I know. Well, that's another thing.

867
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:42,640
Zalooki goes and just dumps dumps other
cities ordinances. And I'm not even sure

868
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:46,880
our planning commission understands
what's already on the books. Shouldn't

869
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,400
we shouldn't we take inventory of what
we already have,

870
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:52,719
» Mr. Chairman?
>> Because there's a lot of issue with the

871
01:08:49,839 --> 01:08:57,120
interpretation and implementation.
>> Okay, I'll I'll end. But but when I

872
01:08:54,960 --> 01:09:01,359
speak, you know, a lot of problem is not
with what's on the books. It's the

873
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:04,400
interpretation and implementation of it
and the recordkeeping.

874
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:09,120
» Well,
Mr. chairman and for the record just as

875
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:13,520
long as we're you know on that subject I
absolutely would encourage both of them

876
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:18,480
Mr. Shiro is exceptionally knowledgeable
in this and

877
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:21,679
this just is at the wrong board for
this. So she should be at the planning

878
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:29,120
commission for this.
>> All right. Well, her comments are

879
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:36,400
» are noted as is the city's response. All
>> on the record per the open meetings act.

880
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:42,319
Any other public comment before we
adjourn? I don't think there's other

881
01:09:38,480 --> 01:09:45,839
business beyond that. Okay. Uh hearing
none, we can entertain a motion to

882
01:09:44,719 --> 01:09:48,480
adjurnn.
>> Motion to adjurnn.

883
01:09:47,440 --> 01:09:50,319
» I'll second.
>> All in favor?

884
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:52,239
» I.
>> All right, that's a wrap. Thanks

885
01:09:51,839 --> 01:09:56,520
everybody.
>> Thank you guys. Appreciate it.