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Our clerk and establish our quorum. I know that council member lee is gone. He did have

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this travel plan early in january, but he plans to listen to this first hour of and

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participate in this first hour as we discuss. So if we can just get the roll call. Yes.

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okay. That's we're going to we're going to move forward anyway with the roll call.

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thank you. Good afternoon, council president francis here. Councilor radford present.

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councilor dingman here. Councilor freeman here. Councilor larson. Yes. And just

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a second. Oh, okay. And councilor lee. Councilor lee. He logged on and then he put

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himself on. Okay. Well, we'll mark markham as absent for now, and we'll get him on. Okay.

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thank you. Mayor, you have quorum. Okay. I want to thank all of our guests who have come

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today to help us work through both our kratom and our alcohol ordinance. We do have a lot of

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our first responders in the room and building officials, so thank you. We've got two big

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two big ordinances to tackle today. And so we will begin. Legal is going to introduce our

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first ordinance for the ban of the sale of kratom. And we did have our coroner who is also

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going to join us. But if you wouldn't mind, she is not. I don't see her yet. All right.

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so we discussed this ordinance a couple weeks ago. Since then there have been a couple

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changes. Again, this this ordinance is to ban the sale. Only the sale, not the

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possession. The sale of kratom within the city of idaho falls or two residents of the city of

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idaho falls. So that would also include any online sales that are targeting those in the city

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of idaho falls. Since we last met, I've revised the ordinance to also prohibit. Can we go

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down a little bit, linda? Madam clerk added to the definition of kratom that also includes

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any synthetic or semi-synthetic forms of certain alkaloid compounds that are present in

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naturally occurring kratom. Kind of close the loophole that this would be banning all forms

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of kratom, not just those naturally occurring, but those that are imitation kratom

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basically also added to the definition of some of the additional. I can't remember

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which ones that were which ones it was, but I added some of the alkaloid compounds to the

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actual definition of kratom for natural kratom as well, and other than that, there were no

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changes made. Any questions on the contents of the ordinance? Okay, okay. We have the county

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sheriff here. Is a corner here yet? We were our intent was we were leading out with the

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coroner. We were she was going to join us right at 3:00 so that she could describe her

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experience with, you know, why she created the the public awareness around kratom. I, I

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don't know what to do with her. Not here. She is the lead out for the for the entire purpose.

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I know council member dingman was the first to kind of bring it to our attention, I don't I

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have in no way prepped her to to speak to why why that came forward. If you feel such that

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you want to bring it forward. If not, we can try and find out where our where the corner is.

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I have a feeling I'm sure someone in the audience is texting her, maybe to see where

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she might be at. But but yeah, this did get my attention because of a couple of

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different stories. One being locally produced through the coroner's office and the

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notification of the deaths that were kratom related. And then actually some stories that come

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out of montana, because I have some family lives in montana, and I do pay a little bit of

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attention to the news there and saw this as a public health issue that I thought that

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council might want to consider looking at. I think that the intent of the ordinance is to

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make it clear what kinds of what kinds of retail businesses that I think that we want to to

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see here, and what we don't want to see here is a risk to public safety. I'm sure that,

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like the rest of council, well, I think we've all been getting very similar emails, mostly

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copy and paste emails from primarily nonresidents. I have been tracking their the, the

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residential status and, and asking them, hey, how did you hear about this? Why are you

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emailing me from new jersey? And there were two organizations that had put this

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ordinance to the attention of customers of a business that's not even in this part of the

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state. And again, I think we all probably got the exact same emails. Every email I got from

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an idaho falls resident supported a ban on the sale of kratom. One of the things that

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I thought about, you know, I've got one one last child that's still in school here in idaho

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falls that has a gas station just a few hundred feet from his classrooms on multiple

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sides. And the thought of this continuing to be unregulated here was something that I

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thought the council should discuss, especially after hearing the impact that it's

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having. And, you know, we're in a rare position to be able to ban the sale of something like

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this. We can't ban the sale of fentanyl, right. We've there's certain things that we cannot

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do, and this is one of them that we can do. So it does appear our corner has arrived.

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so. If you wouldn't mind taking and making a grand entrance. Yes. I'm sorry. No, I apologize.

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I got stuck in traffic and nobody in idaho would like to. Like I said, I like to make an

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entrance apparently, and make sure everybody sees the belle of the ball. Here, let me just

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silence everybody. And while the corner is coming up, I will note I neglected to note that

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there has been some action on the or potential action on the idaho legislature side this

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legislative session. There were two bills kind of competing bills, one to regulate kratom

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in certain in certain ways, like you couldn't purchase it if you believe, if you're under

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21, they banned regulate synthetic but allowed natural. Another bill banned outright

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kratom in any form. Both bills did not pass. And so it went. I think one got voted on, it

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didn't pass and the other just didn't make it out of committee. So the state of the law right

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now leaves it open for the city to regulate it, if it so sees fit. Okay. Welcome. And thank

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you very much for coming, miss sanchez. We just kind of through preliminaries, had have

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briefly discussed maybe why this was brought forward to council. And just for public

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information, where we are at with this is that. As it as we would normally do in a work

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session and council identifies a potential issue within the city and brings it forward in

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the form of a work in the form of a work session, not as an issue, but as a solution to the

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issue. We talk about, you know, what are some of the issues that we might be having in the

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city? And then we formalize that in this kind of a work session process, where there is

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a solution being proposed. And a lot of that problem actually did come to our attention

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through you. So if you wouldn't mind sharing your experience with this and why you made the

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public notice back in october. Absolutely. So I don't know if you guys know too much about me

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and my appointment. So I was appointed at the very end of december in 2024. It was like

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the second to the last day of the year. And then I started my appointment as coroner

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basically december 31st. And one of the things that I had put into my responsibilities

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was settling some of the previous cases that were still open by the previous coroner.

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and one of the cases that was pending was a young man that we were essentially waiting for

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his toxicology to come in. Once that toxicology came in, then I reviewed it and I was to sign

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his death certificate. And that was one of the very first things that I had to do as a

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coroner, is to settle some of his old cases. The reason that I'm bringing this up is because

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that is kind of what started my realization of what kratom was and how it was affecting our

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community, because that individual, his toxicology, came back with the mitragynine

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toxicity. And I hadn't in my career heard of it before or heard about kratom. On a

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personal level, I had heard about kratom amongst some individuals that I knew they

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had talked about it, but I never was truly interested to know what it was until I saw it

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on a toxicology report. Once I started to look into it, I realized what it was and just

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kind of kept it on my radar. A couple of weeks after that incident and me signing that

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death certificate, it was his sole cause of death there. He was a young individual. He was

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only 19 years old, and the only thing in his system was kratom. He didn't have any medical

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history. He had nothing. He had no other addictions or any abuse that would have

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contributed to his passing. It was strictly just kratom. A couple weeks after that, I was

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an investigator called out to the the scene of a young individual, and she was only 23,

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I believe, and at the time, everything that I was seeing, I didn't quite. I couldn't make

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the determination of what her cause of death was. So I decided to send her to autopsy.

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while we were at autopsy, I brought to their attention that while I was out doing this

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investigation, I had come across some packets of kratom. And it was the loose leaf, not

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a concentrate, not the synthetic. It was the powdered kratom that you see in bags.

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while we were conducting her autopsy, even the pathologist said that it was something that

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is newer for them. It's not something that they're experiencing a lot of. They

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were going to do a lot more research. We got the toxicology back. Her cause of death ended

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up being an overdose due to acute drug toxicity of kratom. After that, that's kind of when

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my red flags went off and I decided that I was just going to monitor the situation

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because I researched into kratom and the fact that it has opiate like symptoms to it. And

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so the addiction level with it is very much like any other opiates. And so while it was

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being marketed as natural, it's not necessarily something that's safe, just like with all

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addictions. A couple of weeks after her passing, I had another younger individual, I

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believe he was in his 30s. And while we took him to autopsy, we emptied his pockets. He had

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synthetic seven zero concentrate in his pockets. It came in the. The little

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concentrated containers, very similar to like five hour energy drinks. And his cause of

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death came back as a drug intoxication of this synthetic kratom. By the time I hit, it

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was just bam, bam, bam. Those three. I decided to start reaching out to other counties

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across idaho, and I focused my efforts on the bigger counties that might have more awareness

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of the substance, as well as counties that had a younger population. So counties that

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had maybe college towns in them, so bannock and pocatello, madison with the with the

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university, there are us having a university. And while they had a couple of deaths that

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were related to kratom and they had been monitoring it, it was not nearly what we were

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experiencing so quickly in our county. By the time october hit, I had looked back at a couple

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of previous cases and found that they. That kratom was also related to those cases. I

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contacted my toxicology lab and asked that they pull all toxicologies that had come back

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related to that had this substance on them, and then I pulled those death certificates

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and I found that we had a what feels like a low number, but it's actually an abundance of

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kratom related deaths in such a short period of time. In about a year and a half, we had had

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six. And while six doesn't seem like a very big number, if you put it in comparison to all of

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the other drug overdoses that we had experienced in our county, we had more kratom

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related deaths than we had fentanyl related deaths at the time. And everybody's so hyper

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focused on opiates in that sense, and fentanyl that we were overlooking how something

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like this natural substance could be affecting our community over the last year.

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and actually, ever since, I by the time october came, the family members of those

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individuals that had lost their loved ones to, to kratom, they wanted awareness. They were in

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pain. They were reaching out to me because over the last few months, they had noticed just

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such a spike in an increase in the amount of kratom that was hitting our community. It used

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to be only accessible in tobacco shops or like smoke shops, and now you can't drive

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down the street without seeing flags that say kratom all over them. You can't go through, you

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can't pass by a tobacco store without seeing kratom in led sign. We were now at a point

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where you're now seeing it in our gas stations. I have gone to multiple gas stations just

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in the last week, and there's display cases with concentrate and the seven zero byproduct of

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kratom on their display cabinets right next to the cash register. A lot of people are

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talking about regulation and how it's needed. I absolutely agree that regulation is needed.

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however, there is not a solution right now with regulation there. There's so

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many people that have an input on what regulation looks like that while people are trying to

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make a decision on what regulation looks like, it's continuing to grow, it's

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continuing to expand into other concentrates, and it's continuing to to be in our

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community, which is why I think it's an amazing idea, truly, that our city takes a stand and

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our county takes a stand and bans it as a show that statewide it needs to happen.

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but if we can do it on a smaller level, then hopefully it can grow as well to that

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state level. But if we continue to wait for the state to make a decision on this, we're going

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to continue to lose people. I have an individual, unfortunately, right now that

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is at the hospital and will be passing today, and their cause of death will be related to

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kratom. And I have another individual who two weeks ago, and I'm just waiting for the

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toxicology to come in. But it's another kratom related death. So it's continuously happening

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in our community. And the longer that we wait without putting any kind of banner

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restrictions, the the more people in our community are being affected by this. Yes.

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council members, please feel free to sanchez. You're okay to answer the questions from council. Is that okay? I'm super interested in. We have narcan for. Does it help at all?

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so unfortunately it does not. Narcan is. While it is an amazing opportunity, especially

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for opiate related things and fentanyl, it's one of those that if you don't register it

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and do it right then and there, then there's, it won't help you. You can narcan somebody five,

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ten times. And if they're already at that brink of passing, they're already gone.

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unfortunately, here in idaho falls, with us having a major trauma hospital, we're actually

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seeing people from outside communities that are potentially passing from

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overdoses, from kratom related products coming into our county as well. And then in addition,

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I know that I was reached out recently by a detective who is going through an investigation

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for a store that was robbed of kratom. And so now I that spikes my alerts of if I have

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any overdoses related to kratom, that could potentially also be related to these criminal

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matters. You said toxicology tests after the person has died can tell you if those kratom or

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how much kratom. But it's not as easy to text check an actual solution in a bottle to see if

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it's kratom. Is that am I right? Yes. So a lot like we have testing for for substances

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while we're out on scene kratom, because it is a natural marketed substance. It's not

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something that's being looked for and tested on. And so we don't have any kind of solution

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where we can put a potentially put it into the concentrate. And if it's blue, then it's

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positive for kratom. What happens is it's up to us and the investigators. So law

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enforcement and through the coroner deputies that we recognize what kratom is and

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what it looks like to look for it while we're on scene in that way. And that's how we've been

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able so far to find these kratom related deaths is that while we're out on scene, the

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investigators are finding the physical kratom related products. Okay. If if you if

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you don't mind, we would love to have sheriff and police chief johnson join us at the.

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I'm not going to call it the dais, but at our at our table here, just to as part of the

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conversation, if you can speak loud, you're okay to sit there. It doesn't have to be too

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formal. Do you want me to. I would like you to remain. If you're okay. As counsel begins

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to kind of have a conversation around this, I think it was a good segue to lead in to the

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testing of this substance. And we're really looking for the sheriff and the chief to help

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us understand the enforcement, the challenges of enforcement, what they're seeing on the

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ground as we talk about this really probably becoming more about awareness than it is

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anything else. We'd really like your insights into this. And then if you're okay with

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counsel asking follow up questions, that would be helpful. So if you're okay, sheriff, to begin with you and just give us your insights and your thoughts on enforcement

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and where the city is headed with this ban of the once again, it's just the sale of kratom as

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opposed to the possession. So certainly one of the one of the issues that we saw this

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legislative session was, you know, attempting to get something passed at the state

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level and at every section as we were doing that, we were kind of going through two

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discussions. One was the full banning actually making it a schedule one product. And on

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the scheduling. And that failed. Additionally, there was some controls that were attempted to

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be put in place. You had a strong medical component that was there. Talking about that,

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wanting to restrict the sale, especially to juveniles. And as it stands right now, both of

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those efforts have failed. So in the state of idaho, there is no prohibition on the sale

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whatsoever. So anybody of any age technically can walk into one of these shops and purchase

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kratom. And we you don't even have to be. 18. Correct. And so we have several indicators that

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these we know through our discussions with some of the school district, etc. That we

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are seeing this in younger populations being used in school. We've had different

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reports of different levels of intoxication and illness caused by kratom. In the schools, we

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have stores within walking distance of some of the schools that are selling these products,

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and again, with no restriction on sale. So then it's just up to whether or not a court even

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notices if they're going to sell that to somebody who's underage. So that's probably one of my largest concerns, recognizing the availability and the misunderstanding that

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this can be very dangerous. And so knowing what we know about kratom, it it reacts on the

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same receptor in the brain that opiates do. And at higher doses, it suppresses breathing, just

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like opiates do. And so there's your danger in, in the, in the product. And so it's about

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concentration. And then when you start talking about the synthetic 708, that is a higher

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synthetic concentration that they're seeing problems with all over the nation. So there's

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no question that the problems on, on us. And now we need to do something to begin to

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control and deal with the product in the community. Another concern I have is the

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fact that if we just pass an ordinance in the city of falls, it will immediately transfer

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into these other areas into the county or the city of ammon. So I did alert the city of ammon

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that you were looking at this ordinance, because I think it's important that we make the

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effort holistically for the entire county and have mirroring ordinances for the

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other cities, as well as the county. Councilor. Do you have any questions for the sheriff

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on or any counties or cities already banning the sale of it? I'm not aware of any, and I

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there are, but I am aware that there are other states that have. And other cities and

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other states that have placed ordinances to ban the sale. I was thinking kootenai county

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had a ordinance and they were. In fact, they were going to amend it a little bit, but

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apparently not. Okay. I'm not aware they may have. I'm just not personally aware I could

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look into it, I don't know. So what is the enforcement look like? So in first off, if we to

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to kind of what sheriff hall said that this this would. If you're in a perfect world, the

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federal government would schedule it like other controlled substances and then

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it would be banned like fentanyl as a ban. In a great world, the state would take it

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up and regulate it as a state. That way you wouldn't have different counties doing things

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differently. But in a good world, the entire bonneville county would would take it up.

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and then the world we have, it looks like idaho falls right now, and hopefully the other ones follow so that that jurisdictional difference makes it harder because if it's not

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idaho falls, you will be able to walk two blocks down the road. And there's, I mean, you

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know, city, county, city, county in some places. And so it will just push the legal

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sale. People will still be able to buy it. They'll be able to possess it. It is a really a

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value statement by the city saying, we think this is important. In idaho falls, we

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first started seeing kratom that we're aware of. I'm sure it's been around for a while,

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but to document it was in 2024 and it was in december, I believe it was the overdose of

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the coroner was talking about the case actually happened december 18th, which was right

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before coroner came into office. Then we had one other overdose that we have seen in idaho

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falls, which happened in 2026 at the beginning of 2026, which the toxicology showed kratom

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and some kava as well. And kratom was the predominant thing there. We've also had

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four thefts of kratom. There's a gray slash black market for kratom. Also. People will steal

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it as valuable. They'll sell it. The biggest one was about almost $9,000 worth of kratom,

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was taken out of a vape shop. And that was most likely the one the coroner was talking

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about. So. For for enforcement, this bans the sale of kratom and to advertise the sale

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kratom I offer for sale, which is to say, hey, we we have it. It doesn't ban the possession

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and you can buy it all over just outside of idaho falls. I believe what will happen is, is

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that the businesses that are regular good businesses and want to be good citizens, once

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they know that that sale is banned, they will probably quit selling it. That's most of your

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convenience stores. Stinker station probably doesn't want the police coming down there and doing stuff that will probably stop selling it. I think that some of the vape

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shops, which are currently selling things that are on the fringes of legality, I'll just

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phrase it that way. I think they probably have some thc products. If we test, it might

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test illegal. And so they're already willing to kind of flirt with that line. And I

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believe we'll probably still see it sold there. Inside of idaho falls, there is a

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challenge to the prosecution, I think, and the city attorney and I have talked briefly about

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this with every other controlled substance. We have a presumptive test, and we have

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testing to say this is the controlled substance, for example, marijuana. We just

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don't grab marijuana to go to court and say, hey, this is marijuana, your honor, take our

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word for it. We have a presumptive test that says this marijuana, which gives us

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probable cause. And then we'll send it to state lab and they will do a definitive test that

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says marijuana, so that we can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that marijuana, that test does

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not exist for kratom outside of a commercial market. What I mean is, if we had to do that,

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we'd have to come up some money to send it into a private lab, have that test on our own. We

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couldn't send it to a state lab. It's really unknown how a court is going to handle that, but

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this will be a first for me. I've never seen a substance case go to court without a

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definitive test to say what it is. I believe we're going to go off of what the packaging says

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it is it. So we're believing the packaging. Is that beyond a reasonable doubt, or will they

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be able to argue that? Yeah, the packaging says it is, but can you prove it is what it

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says it is because this packaging is I mean, my creatine package may not have the creatine in it that says it has. So usually with a substance, you have to have a

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test and we don't have that. So that's a challenge to enforcement. Another thing which I think is unlikely to happen currently because I think we have a phenomenal

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sheriff right now that my understanding is, though, if we put people in jail just on a

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city ordinance, it is possible for the county to bill us for the incarceration. So if it's

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only a city ordinance, pretty much everyone we book into jail is a misdemeanor. That is a

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misdemeanor, and it's covered under state law. I don't think we'll have that issue with the

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current county folks, but those things have been different in the past. There's no guarantee

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what might happen. 2 or 3 sheriffs from now. So I would look at this as like a value

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statement, something that idaho falls says. We think this is really valuable, and we think

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that probably the state ought to take it up. I think legitimate businesses will

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honor the ban of sale. I think other businesses will push the envelope. And we we currently

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don't have the capacity to do a lot of marijuana investigations in these businesses. And I

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believe you go in there, you'll find some thc products and things like that, that they have shops. We won't have the ability to, to really do a lot of interdiction on that. So

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it's a, it's a value statement by the city, in my opinion. And when when you say value

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statement and, and an awareness, an awareness, because you did mention that most convenience

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stores do want to be credible, you know, as we talk about them around our schools, they will

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actually probably stop the sale of kratom, I believe. So bringing just the awareness of

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it is, is going to be major. What kind of way I think this will happen is we'll work on

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some sort of formal warning letter with the city attorney's office and send it to the

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businesses that are selling and say, hey, we think you're in violation of idaho's ordinance. Here's what the potential ramifications are. You need to sell this stuff. I think most

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of them will come into compliance, and I think I see this as harm reduction, right?

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I mean, even if we had 30% of convenience stores comply, that's 30% fewer stores selling

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the product that we know is killing our residents. And you save one life, it's worth it.

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yeah, that's how I feel too. Councilmember friedman, kellogg, idaho actually did ban. I just

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looked this up. Did ban the sale of kratom this year. And yeah, I don't, I, I don't care

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if we're the first in idaho. That's even better because I'd rather take a stance now. But I,

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I, I hear what chief johnson is saying. I hope that our, our county and the city of ammon do

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hopefully take this up as well. It's very expensive though, to move businesses. I mean, I'm

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not sure everyone's going to just bail to these out other cities and our county as a

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result of this. But yeah, it would be it would be nice if we could all be on the same page.

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I don't think businesses are going to move. I think it'll just change where people go to

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buy their creating. If there isn't some consistency and support. And so if if I'm going to make a make up a, I would say, maverick, I, I don't want to throw maverick under the bus.

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let's say they're called bob's. If there's a bob's in idaho falls, then there's probably a

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bob's in aminol. So they'll just take all their product anyhow and settled out of there because it would be legal there. So that's why you want some consistency between

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jurisdictions. You mentioned earlier putting some pressure on the state legislature by us

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doing this and that. That's true of the surrounding jurisdictions, right? That if

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we do this, then it's likely that the county will do it. It's likely that animal will do

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it, and hopefully it becomes statewide. You know, this happened with the the hands

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free ordinance when we when the same kind of thing. Enough of us passed an ordinance in the

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state, 11 or 13 of us or something that the state finally said, you know, we got

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to do this. My question is, is if we if we do do this, do we sunset it somehow? If the state

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does ban it themselves, do we we have our we have we pass an ordinance. Then then is there a

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way we sunset it just. Yeah. By under under the way our constitutional structure works.

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if the state acts on this. And unless it carves out something saying, unless provided

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otherwise by a city, the state will preempt whatever the city does here. We don't have to

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build a sunset because it'll be automatic as of the date of the passage, and we probably would

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need to go and just repeal it. And I had one other comment too, because I was I was working as

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a paramedic when we had spice show up on scene. Right. And you guys are familiar with that.

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and it was banned. And, and, you know, it seems to me like it was a, it's very similar

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kind of a, you know, it wasn't killing people. This is but it was incapacitating people to

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the point where they couldn't function. Right. And so, you know, I, it just blows my mind

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that the state of idaho would look at this and not take it to the statute level. I, I don't,

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I don't, I don't even know if I want to comment about that. And one thing I would say is that

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there was some action at the federal level. There were some senators that signed on to at

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least the intention to try to regulate kratom. So there are there is movement at the

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federal level on a potential scheduling. But that gets down into arguing which schedule do

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you make it? Right. But obviously there are there are groups out there that believe

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that it has some medicinal qualities to it. But that's the same argument we've had with

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marijuana for ad nauseum. So what what that's that's why that initial discussion was

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schedule one. So potentially you could see some type of scheduling come come out of the

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federal government level. But as we all know, that can take a long time to happen. And at

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least at this local level, you can take action immediately. And, and that sends that

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message that we're seeing the problems in the community with the coroner's identified. Like

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I said earlier, if we save one person's life, it's worth it, right? I mean, I know that

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people we've all been getting tons of letters about about how it helps them with their pain.

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well, there's other ways to alleviate your pain. And, you know, once you're dead, you

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don't, you're not, you're dead. And so I'm all for doing, doing this. And I hope the county

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will pick it up. I want to encourage that to happen. I'd like to kind of piggyback off

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of something, councilor silverman said. You know, we talk about if we just do it in

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idaho falls, it'll just push it out, but it won't push it out. For fifth graders who have a c

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store next door, they'll quit getting it. I mean, I guess if we have an older brother. But

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you get my point and it goes back to 30% or whatever. But the idea that a, you know, a

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grade school kid or a junior high kid can walk to a c store and buy this stuff and stick it

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in their pocket. I'm all for shutting down whatever part we can shut down. Half a loaf is

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better than nothing. We'll make it harder for them to get it. And it does create the gray

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black market for it. And same as when you ban marijuana or any other substance, there's a

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a corona that it will make it harder, especially for younger kids to get. Thank you. The

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other thing I think is important is we it gives us an additional opportunity to

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message its dangerousness. Absolutely understands that. I think there's a lot of parents

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that don't even recognize this. They don't know it exists. They don't know what to look for.

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they may see it in their kid's pocket, not even realize it. Yeah. And you know, we have a

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fantastic communications team here at the city that can really help message this to the

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residents and help them identify, I think, potentially some of these substances. And,

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and yeah, start that conversation with their, with their kids. And we've talked

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about messaging with the school district as well. So that there is that consistency, consistent

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messaging, just as a kind of to back up to the timeline. December 2nd, the fda did do a

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press release as well that said, you know, we would warn citizens of the united states

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to stay away from kratom, I think. And then, you know, we approached bonneville county,

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and it did look like there was going to be this legislation that was moved forward. And so it felt like, let's let's just hold off and we'll wait and let just the whole session came and

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went with all of the arguments being brought forward, just as the coroner did. And so here we

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are today, right. Saying we're going to we're here to take that step. And so what you have

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before you is the ban of the sale of kratom in the city of idaho falls. And unless there

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is a consensus from council today to not bring it forward, you would see it on the agenda

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for thursday. Could I ask all three, all three of you a question suggestion on a date

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of effective? How much time would you make it? Tomorrow. Tomorrow? Well, I'm hoping to

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do that. I don't know about you guys. In all honesty, if we if it can get put into presented

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on thursday, if we can have everything, it's the start of the month. So having all the

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wording put in place, having, you know, the opportunity to be able to reach out to the

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businesses that are selling because ultimately we don't want the businesses to be the

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ones that are suffering the short end of this. And, you know, not realizing that there

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has been this change and then suffering the repercussions of it. So giving them time. And

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essentially it is like you guys said, it's just bringing that awareness that this is happening and it is going to be happening. I think that having a summer start is the best way

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to get it done. Work through the kinks for the rest of this month and have it issued as of

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july 1st to to ban the sale of kratom. And that gives the stores enough time to become

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aware of it, as well as figure out what their solution is to getting it off the shelves.

374
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please. Yeah, I would love a perfect world like that. I would ask you just to wait a

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little bit longer. June and july is totally tied up with this great 250th anniversary,

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and it's all hands on deck for that. So to, to do a notification letter, give

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people the opportunity to get off their shelves and things like that. I think if you had

378
00:41:11,733 --> 00:41:14,966
an effect, you could start whenever you want before we actually start getting that done. You're going to be looking late august, early september, which I think is

379
00:41:18,733 --> 00:41:18,733
fine to make it effective july 1st, regardless of that's the date that all the statutes that

380
00:41:24,733 --> 00:41:24,733
are passed in the state take effect, which we don't. Right. Yeah. I don't see why you can't

381
00:41:32,133 --> 00:41:32,133
have it take effect that day. I mean, whether we can get out and work it at this time

382
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:38,900
doesn't regardless, but it would give us some time to you know, we we got to understand

383
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:44,100
it's going to take them a while to get rid of it. The like if I don't think it's off shelves,

384
00:41:51,366 --> 00:41:51,366
about 1200 square foot. I mean, you don't have costco sized, I think july 1st places here that

385
00:41:57,166 --> 00:41:57,166
require hundreds of people to remove these things. So and I would just add, just to answer

386
00:42:02,733 --> 00:42:02,733
your question, I think 30 days is, is an ample time ordinance. You think how long? 30 days, 30

387
00:42:10,166 --> 00:42:10,166
days. Yeah, that's that's my opinion. That gives that gives you time to notice it.

388
00:42:14,433 --> 00:42:14,433
everybody to be aware that it's happening. And then it hopefully gives us some time as

389
00:42:18,466 --> 00:42:18,466
a county to catch up and have something that mirrors and comes in line as rapidly as

390
00:42:23,766 --> 00:42:23,766
possible. I think it would be a good time to. Then when kids come back into school, it's off

391
00:42:31,733 --> 00:42:31,733
of the shelf. You know, it's off of the shelves. If you say, you know, july 1st, it might

392
00:42:36,233 --> 00:42:36,233
take a little bit of time to get all of the messaging out there. And, and then there will

393
00:42:41,466 --> 00:42:41,466
be a period of time that's like, no, we're really serious about this august. And then kids come

394
00:42:46,966 --> 00:42:46,966
back at the end of august and it's gone. That would be a, I think that that timeline does

395
00:42:51,833 --> 00:42:51,833
actually work well. So if as I'm kind of seeing some nods that you will expect to see

396
00:42:59,800 --> 00:42:59,800
this on thursday, come forward as presented, unless there's anything, what's the date we're

397
00:43:06,566 --> 00:43:06,566
going to july 1st. Well that'll be yeah, that'll be decided on in the resolution. Excuse me.

398
00:43:12,833 --> 00:43:12,833
in the ordinance number. It'll be as part of the section four it'll say shall take effect on

399
00:43:19,266 --> 00:43:19,266
the. And we will fill that that in right now. You know, when you do the. Motion. Oh we're

400
00:43:28,266 --> 00:43:28,266
going to do we're going to have it start immediately. Well no, when you when you have when you

401
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:32,500
make the motion on thursday, okay, there will be an effective date. I'll be making

402
00:43:37,433 --> 00:43:37,433
the motion. And for effective july 1st, you can vote yes or no. No. I just want to know the

403
00:43:43,433 --> 00:43:43,433
date. July 1st, july. That would be what we would that's what I would what the

404
00:43:48,866 --> 00:43:48,866
proposition would be. Okay. We want to thank you for coming. I we know you are very busy and

405
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:55,500
we really do appreciate you taking the time and bringing your experience in law

406
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:00,500
enforcement. And particularly I'm going to speak here is that I'm glad we don't have

407
00:44:05,566 --> 00:44:05,566
marijuana in the city of idaho falls. I have watched that happen across the nation and

408
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:12,000
people say, oh, it'll be fine. And then a year later, two years later, five years later,

409
00:44:16,366 --> 00:44:16,366
it's a mess. And I just really want to thank both of our public safety heads in both

410
00:44:23,866 --> 00:44:23,866
bonneville county and city of idaho falls for really keeping the foot on the pedal on that,

411
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:29,300
keeping that out of our county. So thank you. Thank you. Just my own personal opinion, but it

412
00:44:35,433 --> 00:44:35,433
is my opinion that it is it is really helped keep idaho falls what it is. Thank you. Thank

413
00:44:42,700 --> 00:44:42,700
you for being here. And thank you for having the knowledge and experience that you do. All

414
00:44:53,166 --> 00:44:53,166
right. Yes. You don't you don't have to stick around unless you want to hear now how we plan on

415
00:45:01,766 --> 00:45:01,766
updating our alcohol ordinance. We might we might see. Okay. Thank you guys. You are welcome

416
00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:09,700
to be more strict on alcohol as the coroner. Chronic alcoholism is now speaking. We do have

417
00:45:16,866 --> 00:45:16,866
that in our whereas statement. Council. We have our attorney in front of us. He has brought

418
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:28,200
this ordinance and I'm going to let him explain most of it, but I want to thank him. It is 34

419
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:34,800
pages long. It is taken months in order to. Yes, we will have the rest of the. Participated.

420
00:45:47,466 --> 00:45:47,466
it has taken months. I'd like to have a special thank you to emily geisler for her work on

421
00:45:54,233 --> 00:45:54,233
the ordinance as well. I think we you know, the intentions were good in our first round of

422
00:46:02,533 --> 00:46:02,533
this ordinance, but clearly we didn't capture it all. And I think there was this concern of,

423
00:46:08,866 --> 00:46:08,866
you know, what is the city doing? And are they just going to is this just in an effort to

424
00:46:14,133 --> 00:46:14,133
do an outright ban on alcohol permitting? And so we really went and and looked at all of

425
00:46:21,166 --> 00:46:21,166
the alcohol ordinances and all of the discrepancies. I want to just frame this for a minute,

426
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:27,000
though. As we move through this ordinance, you will see that our legal department has got

427
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:35,000
the presentation in front of you. We've got the presentation on the screen because it is a

428
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:39,700
long ordinance. The way that we tackled the presentation is to say, here are the issues and

429
00:46:46,133 --> 00:46:46,133
here are the solutions. Although the solutions within the ordinance are found in

430
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:51,500
several locations. So you might be looking at page 22. Now we're back to page ten. Now

431
00:46:56,733 --> 00:46:56,733
we're on page one with definitions. So I just want you to know that that there wasn't

432
00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:01,500
a great way to organize it that fit the ordinance chronologically,

433
00:47:05,933 --> 00:47:05,933
chronologically. But yeah, in, in the terms of the numerically. But that is why there is bounce

434
00:47:12,033 --> 00:47:12,033
around. And if you if there is confusion in what page are we looking at? Please feel free.

435
00:47:17,833 --> 00:47:17,833
speak up. Say I'm not sure where we're looking. It is a long ordinance, but I'm hoping

436
00:47:22,833 --> 00:47:22,833
that we have captured it with the parameters of what is the issue that we are trying to

437
00:47:28,566 --> 00:47:28,566
solve. And here are our solutions. And then as we move through this ordinance, we will

438
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:33,900
get towards the end, we'll have an anticipated timeline and next steps. So we'll turn that

439
00:47:38,666 --> 00:47:38,666
over to our legal department. Okay, chief, do you want to be here? All right. So as the

440
00:47:52,733 --> 00:47:52,733
mayor indicated, we previously touched on alcohol a couple of months ago for the alcohol

441
00:47:57,333 --> 00:47:57,333
server training portion. This newest ordinance merges that of it still has the idea of

442
00:48:04,633 --> 00:48:04,633
alcohol server training, but we think we're doing a lot more changes to the overall alcohol

443
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:11,000
ordinances we have. So one of the main issues is we have three. Currently we have three

444
00:48:17,233 --> 00:48:17,233
separate codes for alcohol in our ordinances one for liquor, one for beer and one for wine.

445
00:48:24,766 --> 00:48:24,766
some of the issues that this has caused is we have sometimes we will update one ordinance,

446
00:48:30,466 --> 00:48:30,466
but not the other two. And it has led to differences. So for instance, if you want to get a

447
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:36,600
liquor license, what you have to put on your application for alcohol liquor license is

448
00:48:43,133 --> 00:48:43,133
different than if you're applying for a beer or wine license. So to simplify things,

449
00:48:48,466 --> 00:48:48,466
it's going to be much easier both for the applicants and for the city clerk to have one set

450
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:54,000
of information that they need. So if you're applying for so we're going to have a basic

451
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:58,400
form, you know, here's your application, here's all you need. And do you want a beer,

452
00:49:02,900 --> 00:49:02,900
wine or liquor license or all or some combination thereof? Right. Makes it easier for

453
00:49:08,733 --> 00:49:12,400
people. It also makes it easier for people if they're not having to go through several different sets of codes, you know, if they're getting a beer as well as a liquor license,

454
00:49:16,533 --> 00:49:20,400
they're not having to go through several sets of codes to figure out which of the requirements apply to which. In addition, we had an issue with enforcement just as an example.

455
00:49:27,033 --> 00:49:27,033
so currently we have three different crimes for open container one, if you're

456
00:49:32,066 --> 00:49:32,066
carrying an open container of wine, one for beer and one for liquor, and occasionally out in

457
00:49:37,566 --> 00:49:37,566
the field, officers will select the wrong citation. And so, you know, they'll do the four dash,

458
00:49:44,666 --> 00:49:48,500
two dash, whatever, instead of the four dash, three dash, whatever it is, it's listed same as open container, correct. And so they'll get cited. And then the defense attorneys are

459
00:49:53,466 --> 00:49:53,466
sitting there waiting for us to go to trial and hoping that we didn't notice the difference.

460
00:49:57,666 --> 00:50:01,533
and then they'll say, hey, judge, wrong citation, dismiss the case. Right? So far, to my knowledge, we've caught all of those, but it's just an example of one of the problems that

461
00:50:06,633 --> 00:50:06,633
happens when multiple codes. So a big part of this ordinance is you'll see is we are merging

462
00:50:12,366 --> 00:50:12,366
all three together. The we're merging, we're taking the liquor ordinance and we're

463
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:18,500
amending that one. And then we're taking the, the beer and wine, the things from those

464
00:50:23,166 --> 00:50:23,166
ordinances and putting them into the liquor ordinance and repealing the beer and wine

465
00:50:29,633 --> 00:50:29,633
sections entirely. So then the result will be merged into one code section. So when you see.

466
00:50:36,533 --> 00:50:36,533
so a lot of the changes you'll see as you go through the ordinance are simply those

467
00:50:41,866 --> 00:50:45,866
merges, right. You'll see an entire new section, what looks like an entire new section in the liquor ordinance or what previously was a liquor organization. Say, if this

468
00:50:52,333 --> 00:50:52,333
ordinance passes, it'll look like a whole new section, but it's actually just something

469
00:50:57,833 --> 00:50:57,833
that was taken from the wine or the beer section and put into there, somewhat altered. We've

470
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:03,800
tried to make them talk with each other better and made changes throughout. The only

471
00:51:11,566 --> 00:51:11,566
thing that won't be merged is the special events permits for under the parks code. So we

472
00:51:17,566 --> 00:51:17,566
have a special permit if you want to do an alcohol event on city property or an enclosed

473
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:25,100
public street, you have to get a special event permit, and that will remain in a separate

474
00:51:30,333 --> 00:51:30,333
part of the code in the parks section. Why is that? Why is that? Because that's it's only

475
00:51:38,766 --> 00:51:38,766
applicable for when it's on city property. It's currently already separate. And it really

476
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:46,500
has more to do with the management of city property. And it doesn't apply to it's

477
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:52,800
only particularly when it's on city property, city owned property, as you say. So if we

478
00:51:58,233 --> 00:51:58,233
wanted to, we could merge them all together. But it just that's currently how we have.

479
00:52:02,866 --> 00:52:02,866
it kind of made sense not to merge that the the people getting an alcohol license,

480
00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:07,300
they really don't need to worry about that unless they're doing an event on city owned property.

481
00:52:14,733 --> 00:52:14,733
all right. All right. So I'll turn the time over to the chief. So just to talk, chief johnson,

482
00:52:22,500 --> 00:52:22,500
to talk about alcohol related incidents and having. So this is, you know, in reference to

483
00:52:28,700 --> 00:52:28,700
the alcohol server training. So it was recognized sometime ago that we've had an increase in

484
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:35,600
alcohol related crime, alcohol related incidents, specifically in the downtown area, but not

485
00:52:41,100 --> 00:52:41,100
limited to that. It mentions duis there, but this would include sexual assaults,

486
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:46,800
assaults, batteries, disturbances, urination in public vandalism, shooting, all

487
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:56,600
sorts of crimes that have a nexus about alcohol and specifically the over service

488
00:53:01,566 --> 00:53:01,566
of alcohol. And so that over service training was brought to you. I can't remember what it's

489
00:53:08,900 --> 00:53:08,900
been some time now, but the goal was to try to bring people in compliance with state law

490
00:53:15,633 --> 00:53:15,633
that already exists about overserving alcohol and the way to help people come in

491
00:53:20,866 --> 00:53:20,866
compliance was to require some server training. When that was first heard, there were some

492
00:53:28,900 --> 00:53:28,900
concerns from the business community, specifically those that had alcohol licenses and

493
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:33,300
the bars and places like that, restaurants, and they have some really valid concerns. I think

494
00:53:38,666 --> 00:53:38,666
council president francis spent a lot of time talking with different groups. I also spent

495
00:53:44,133 --> 00:53:44,133
quite a bit of time meeting individually with different bar owners. Can we go to the next

496
00:53:49,766 --> 00:53:49,766
one there? So there were some changes made to the server training from the original

497
00:53:57,366 --> 00:53:57,366
ordinance that you saw. I can't read that one. So it changed the the definition of who would

498
00:54:05,933 --> 00:54:05,933
be cited to the immediate manager. I think there was a concern that everyone in the

499
00:54:11,833 --> 00:54:11,833
chain of command would or could be cited up to, including the owner. And so in talking with

500
00:54:16,833 --> 00:54:16,833
the the businesses, it seemed best to limit that to the immediate manager. That would

501
00:54:23,366 --> 00:54:23,366
be the person who was from the business. Well, just just to clarify, it changed the

502
00:54:28,333 --> 00:54:28,333
definition of a server, alcohol and security personnel so that managers, only the immediate

503
00:54:33,100 --> 00:54:33,100
managers are required, are the ones required to get server training. And so with this

504
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:39,800
change, if you're the manager of a manager, you don't have to get the alcohol server training.

505
00:54:44,733 --> 00:54:48,000
so it would just be the immediate manager that's required to get alcohol server training, in addition to the actual servers of alcohol and security personnel. And then it

506
00:54:52,866 --> 00:54:52,866
would change the effective date to october 1st. It would some of the concerns of the

507
00:55:01,166 --> 00:55:01,166
businesses is they felt like if they're really busy, to be able to provide the documentation

508
00:55:05,433 --> 00:55:05,433
that their compliance would be difficult for them. We talked about a lot of ways to, to work

509
00:55:10,833 --> 00:55:10,833
through that problem. State law authorizes police officers to go into establishments with

510
00:55:17,666 --> 00:55:17,666
alcohol license and look at other things. And, and so as we're doing that, we would also

511
00:55:23,166 --> 00:55:23,166
want to see the server training, but we would give them four days to, to get that

512
00:55:27,733 --> 00:55:27,733
documentation to us. And that works out just fine with the enforcement. But also it also

513
00:55:32,066 --> 00:55:32,066
takes care of the concern for the business owners of their peak hours and having people

514
00:55:37,466 --> 00:55:37,466
available to do that and conduct their business. So we put that four days. One further

515
00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:43,700
thing. So just to clarify, this might be somewhat ambiguous on this, frank. The ordinance

516
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:48,500
would take effect whenever city council wanted it to take effect. But as far as the

517
00:55:52,633 --> 00:55:52,633
alcohol, the requirement to have certificates showing that you obtained alcohol server

518
00:55:57,966 --> 00:55:57,966
training, that wouldn't be effective until october 1st of this year. And again, part of

519
00:56:03,433 --> 00:56:03,433
the reason is to give them time to come into compliance. My understanding is that it will

520
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:08,100
be able to provide several trainings between now and then, so that they can have several

521
00:56:13,433 --> 00:56:13,433
free training trainings so that they'll be able to come into compliance by that date.

522
00:56:17,733 --> 00:56:17,733
there's multiple places where a business can get the training. Some chain stores have

523
00:56:22,433 --> 00:56:26,066
corporate based training that they already require their people to do. There's online places where you can do it online. We've already hosted one server training at the

524
00:56:32,166 --> 00:56:32,166
mountain america center, and we had about 40 people attend that one. So there'll be multiple

525
00:56:36,433 --> 00:56:36,433
places where people can get that training. In our meetings with the with the different

526
00:56:43,633 --> 00:56:47,633
business owners. The other thing they were worried about was a pardon. The ordinance that said that the chief of police could and I paraphrase what the ordinance says, but it

527
00:56:52,966 --> 00:56:52,966
says that I can update the required training from time to time. As. Their concern was

528
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:01,800
that that I or someone like me would randomly change what they had to be trained on. Like I

529
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:06,400
would decide, well, I want you to now train on this as well and add stuff that the

530
00:57:12,133 --> 00:57:12,133
ordinance does not contemplate in our conversation. I want to make it clear my my

531
00:57:16,466 --> 00:57:16,466
interpretation of that portion of it is, is that I couldn't do that, but I could say, well,

532
00:57:22,566 --> 00:57:22,566
this particular training is not in compliance with our ordinance. It doesn't cover the

533
00:57:26,866 --> 00:57:26,866
topics we require. That's no longer allowed this or this training does. And so it's not

534
00:57:32,733 --> 00:57:32,733
that I can I can set what has to be trained on, but which trainings cover what council

535
00:57:39,500 --> 00:57:43,500
has to be trained on. And that was important to them so that they didn't have someone changing the requirements. And I think we talked through that as well. And this would allow

536
00:57:50,666 --> 00:57:50,666
you to approve some national chains that have their own training program. They would

537
00:57:58,233 --> 00:57:58,233
have to cover what's what's said in ordinance. I think most of them will cover more than

538
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:07,100
that. They could cover less than that. So as long as the particular training covered what was required by ordinance, we would approve it. And for council's information, we

539
00:58:11,933 --> 00:58:11,933
modeled this ordinance, this this portion of the ordinance we modeled largely after boise

540
00:58:17,333 --> 00:58:17,333
ordinance that requires alcohol server training. They already have a similar. The list of

541
00:58:22,333 --> 00:58:22,333
what the training. What training is required pretty much took verbatim from the

542
00:58:26,633 --> 00:58:26,633
boise ordinance. And so it's my understanding correctly from wrong chief, that we would. We

543
00:58:31,700 --> 00:58:31,700
would probably be able to adopt those. If you go on the boise city of boise website, they'll

544
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:40,400
say, here, here's the approved online trainings. We have online trainings in addition to the free trainings that I will, will provide. And so potentially chief thompson

545
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:47,200
could just use those same programs that are already approved by the boise. Of

546
00:58:52,233 --> 00:58:52,233
course, you can review them, make sure it's good. But we could we could follow suit. And

547
00:58:56,333 --> 00:59:00,133
there were resources. Yeah, there's multiple ones out there. There's some business owners already know and like, and I think they qualify. Also if there's a corporate wouldn't do

548
00:59:05,366 --> 00:59:05,366
that also. And then just the penalties, it makes escalating penalties for the certificate

549
00:59:13,066 --> 00:59:13,066
holder. So it's for violations in 18 months. First for infractions after that will

550
00:59:18,500 --> 00:59:18,500
become a misdemeanor. Escalating penalties for licensees. They would be 11

551
00:59:25,366 --> 00:59:25,366
violations in 18 months. I had a quick conversation with council francis again,

552
00:59:30,900 --> 00:59:30,900
and 811 by a lot in 18 months. Typically, we set those numbers a little bit lower. That was

553
00:59:37,700 --> 00:59:37,700
kind of a compromise, kind of a because you had a competing interest. If I have 20 servers

554
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:43,600
or 30 servers and I hire five new servers every couple of weeks because there's tough

555
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:50,200
labor market. It seemed that we were trying to recognize that some of the bigger

556
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:59,100
establishments had put a lot of people through. They may have some people that struggle to get that initially. And so that's where that came from. And then for charitable,

557
01:00:03,866 --> 01:00:03,866
charitable event, permit holders would have to have one person certified for every 100

558
01:00:09,633 --> 01:00:09,633
people that were serving alcohol to. And the violations would be infractions. And the

559
01:00:15,066 --> 01:00:15,066
third infraction within 18 months would trigger a ban on the charitable event permit. I

560
01:00:25,133 --> 01:00:25,133
will add for the the 12th infraction. So if they fail to have a certificate of alcohol

561
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:31,900
server training, the 12th one within 18 months would be would lead to the initiate a

562
01:00:37,766 --> 01:00:37,766
proceeding to either suspend or revoke the alcohol license. And just as a kind of an aside,

563
01:00:44,933 --> 01:00:44,933
what we have noticed, especially in the downtown area, is just the bottle of alcohol.

564
01:00:49,633 --> 01:00:49,633
server training has already improved the environment downtown and compliance we have

565
01:00:55,400 --> 01:00:55,400
with several of the businesses downtown. It has made an improvement. Just the idea that

566
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:01,400
this is coming. It's already helped out and that's the basic idea behind this ordinance, is

567
01:01:06,166 --> 01:01:06,166
that a you know, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And it also is helpful

568
01:01:11,066 --> 01:01:11,066
for the establishments themselves because by implementing these sorts of

569
01:01:15,233 --> 01:01:18,166
programs, it helps their liability should something go wrong, because then they can say, hey, we have a training server program, we rigorously enforce and we keep our servers

570
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:28,566
trained on it. And they recognize when some of these overserved and no, we didn't overserve that can be it can be helpful in litigation for the establishments as well. Okay.

571
01:01:35,700 --> 01:01:35,700
any questions? Okay. So for this one, I kind of want to let fire and community develop or a

572
01:01:45,333 --> 01:01:45,333
building inspector comment on some of the issues we've seen with specifically with alcohol

573
01:01:51,466 --> 01:01:51,466
catering permits. My understanding is so alcohol catering permits. So let me

574
01:01:56,700 --> 01:01:56,700
just back up a little bit. We have a lot of licenses and different types of permits,

575
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:01,200
right? You have your alcohol license, which allows you to establishment sell beer, wine

576
01:02:05,300 --> 01:02:05,300
or liquor. You have an alcohol catering permit. What this allows is for an alcohol,

577
01:02:12,433 --> 01:02:12,433
somebody who holds an alcohol license to go off premises, to go to a different location and

578
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:18,200
hold, you know, serve alcohol at an event can be no longer than three days. And we also

579
01:02:24,366 --> 01:02:24,366
have another permit called a charitable or permit for benevolent charitable or public

580
01:02:29,700 --> 01:02:29,700
purpose, which is similar to an alcohol catering permit, except you don't have to have you can

581
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:36,600
apply for it even if you don't have an alcohol license. Your subject is more additional

582
01:02:41,566 --> 01:02:41,566
stringent requirements. You have to show that you are using the profits and paying it

583
01:02:47,666 --> 01:02:47,666
towards some sort of charitable or benevolent public purpose. So there's a more stringent on

584
01:02:53,966 --> 01:02:53,966
that. But the issue has been that at times people will basically get consecutive

585
01:03:03,866 --> 01:03:03,866
alcohol catering permits. Again, these are meant to be temporary. They're meant to be for three

586
01:03:08,066 --> 01:03:08,066
days only. But we our current code has no limit. So you can get one every three days. So

587
01:03:14,766 --> 01:03:14,766
I'll let fire and cbs talk to some of those. I'll start with fire first and then turn to cbs.

588
01:03:20,533 --> 01:03:20,533
some of the issues that have come up from that. Yeah. Good afternoon mayor, council, scott,

589
01:03:26,366 --> 01:03:26,366
fire marshal. The fire department has been tasked with being a part of the alcohol

590
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:33,800
license and catering permit process to ensure that the buildings meet a basic fire

591
01:03:39,900 --> 01:03:39,900
safety inspection and quick history. The fire code is the maintenance code for the

592
01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:45,600
building code, and our inspectors go out to ensure that the building's maintained

593
01:03:50,333 --> 01:03:50,333
at the standard, that it was built under the building code. And with that, there's a small

594
01:03:56,066 --> 01:03:56,066
class of buildings that can serve alcohol and alcohol in them. And they're part of the

595
01:04:02,266 --> 01:04:02,266
assembly occupancies. And it's the assembly to. So part of our inspection when we go, besides

596
01:04:09,166 --> 01:04:09,166
making sure doors open the right way, they have the appropriate signs, fire signals

597
01:04:13,533 --> 01:04:13,533
are in place. We also vet to see if this is an appropriate building to hold the event, but

598
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:19,200
it's not an appropriate building to hold an event. Then we'll through the catering

599
01:04:25,700 --> 01:04:25,700
process, we look at if they have the basic safety measures in place, we'll give them a

600
01:04:31,433 --> 01:04:31,433
permit to the maximum occupancy of what they're designed to an internal policy with id. What

601
01:04:39,033 --> 01:04:39,033
we found is if there is a business that starts and is operating like a bar restaurant,

602
01:04:46,233 --> 01:04:46,233
we refer them to the building official to put a stop work order. You are, you are, you've

603
01:04:53,033 --> 01:04:57,000
started a business in the building. And that's not an a to or an appropriate building. You need to work with the building official to go through the change of use process to

604
01:05:02,700 --> 01:05:02,700
have you continue your business as an open bar. But on the catering permit side, we've

605
01:05:10,300 --> 01:05:10,300
seen in lieu of doing a change of use, the repetitive request for permits. So so you'll have

606
01:05:18,266 --> 01:05:18,266
an existing business like the downtown event center who's invested in their business and

607
01:05:25,100 --> 01:05:28,766
they've met with the building official. They've made those changes that they needed to do to be a full event center, meet the a standard. And then we have others that are just

608
01:05:34,266 --> 01:05:34,266
repetitively using the permit process to get around that meeting with the building

609
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:39,200
officials. So we're trying to shore up and shorten that meeting time so they can meet

610
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:44,200
with the building official and set a plan in place. As you can see, we have a draw down period

611
01:05:50,900 --> 01:05:50,900
of time in the ordinance that gives these business owners time to implement that plan,

612
01:05:57,266 --> 01:05:57,266
because there is a cost that will go with some of those changes and some sometimes it

613
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:01,600
won't be as much as others, depending on how big the facility is. So in reference to

614
01:06:07,666 --> 01:06:07,666
the slide, you can see that the plan is to reduce these permits over time until they make the

615
01:06:15,633 --> 01:06:15,633
appropriate changes. The first three years will be 52 catering permits. So basically every

616
01:06:21,733 --> 01:06:21,733
week for three years, the fourth year will draw down to 26 catering permits. And by the

617
01:06:27,866 --> 01:06:27,866
fifth year, hopefully those changes have been made. And if not, we would hold we would

618
01:06:32,866 --> 01:06:32,866
limit them to 12 alcohol catering permits a year for in a in a for profit scenario,

619
01:06:39,666 --> 01:06:39,666
this would not apply to buildings that are already historic. It's a reference for.

620
01:06:45,433 --> 01:06:45,433
that would be the gym on first street, the old bar. They currently don't have an alcohol

621
01:06:51,700 --> 01:06:51,700
license, but they are in a two. So we would continue to give them their permits because they

622
01:06:56,566 --> 01:06:56,566
met that building standard at the time that they were in business. But for charitable

623
01:07:02,200 --> 01:07:02,200
events like zac mentioned, we wouldn't have a limit on those because there's other

624
01:07:07,166 --> 01:07:07,166
restrictions in place that assist them with their permit process. Are there any

625
01:07:12,466 --> 01:07:12,466
questions on this slide before we go to the the continued slide, or do you want me to

626
01:07:17,833 --> 01:07:17,833
finish the continue slide? Just a question. Why? Why did we want to go down. 52 to 12. So

627
01:07:26,266 --> 01:07:26,266
the underlying concern is that by getting an alcohol catering permit. For buildings that

628
01:07:34,166 --> 01:07:34,166
aren't a. Two they're not up to code for an a2 assembly group. These a2 assembly group, they

629
01:07:40,133 --> 01:07:40,133
have special conditions that they have to meet. Right. I believe it's they have to

630
01:07:44,433 --> 01:07:44,433
sprinkle. It has to be sprinklers, sprinklers or so in in a lot of cases, that is.

631
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:51,000
that's correct. It's there's a number of requirements that the a2 classification of any

632
01:07:58,533 --> 01:07:58,533
building is. It has been designed for the consumption of food and drink and any other

633
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:08,400
classification of a building has not been designed that way. And so we are trying to get

634
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:15,800
buildings that have multiple catering permits to, to get their buildings up to a

635
01:08:22,733 --> 01:08:22,733
standard that is safe for people to be in. So it's largely a safety. What we don't

636
01:08:28,500 --> 01:08:28,500
want is, or the, the idea behind it is we have establishments that have met

637
01:08:34,100 --> 01:08:34,100
that have come up to code to be safe, and they've got their alcohol license, but there's

638
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:38,400
kind of an unfair competition when we have unlimited number of temporary alcohol catering

639
01:08:44,300 --> 01:08:44,300
permits is basically a business that has not invested the expense of coming all the way

640
01:08:49,700 --> 01:08:49,700
up to the safety needed or the code needed to be safe. They can have unlimited and

641
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:54,400
basically operate the drinking establishment. And so the idea, but the idea here is kind of

642
01:09:00,133 --> 01:09:00,133
wrestling with, we want to make it safe for people to, to drink, but at the same time,

643
01:09:05,133 --> 01:09:05,133
recognizing that we have vested interests in the current model that we have under our current

644
01:09:09,900 --> 01:09:09,900
ordinance, that people can get unlimited number of catering permits. So the idea here is

645
01:09:14,966 --> 01:09:14,966
for the first three years, they can recoup their investment. And if they want to make the

646
01:09:21,466 --> 01:09:21,466
changes to come to it, up to the standards of an a2 or assembly group a2, they can or

647
01:09:27,266 --> 01:09:27,266
or they just have to reduce the number of alcohol permits in the fourth and fifth years all

648
01:09:31,433 --> 01:09:31,433
the way down to 12. So for us as council members, can you kind of describe what kind of

649
01:09:36,466 --> 01:09:36,466
costs we're talking about to go to an a2? So across the street from me, I work on lincoln road

650
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:43,000
and there was a there was a mechanic shop that had a big section that became a, an

651
01:09:50,900 --> 01:09:50,900
antique store. And it was an antique store for ten years. And then they just put up a

652
01:09:56,366 --> 01:09:56,366
sign recently that said they're going to be an event space. So the cost of putting that

653
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:00,800
building into an a2, are we talking $1 million, 200,000? I mean, when you say 52 permits,

654
01:10:08,633 --> 01:10:08,633
you know, that's times three. So you're saying you can make enough money from the alcohol

655
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:13,800
to be able to pay for the sprinkler? Are we talking I mean, what's the kind of cost

656
01:10:18,633 --> 01:10:18,633
pressures are we talking about? So, so probably really depends on, on the building. There's

657
01:10:24,033 --> 01:10:24,033
some. Criteria around what what is an a2 occupancy classification. A couple of

658
01:10:33,900 --> 01:10:33,900
those things. For example, the fire area, if it exceeds 5000ft■!s, the fire area has an

659
01:10:43,266 --> 01:10:43,266
occupant load of 100 or more. And the fire area is located on a floor. Other than the level

660
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:49,200
of exit discharge. So once those are exceeded, then a fire sprinkler system is required in

661
01:10:59,300 --> 01:10:59,300
that building. This is interesting because the international residence code

662
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:03,400
also requires in the state of idaho, that we put sprinklers in homes right now, and the

663
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:08,000
state has exempted that because of the cost. So to me, this is another question. Are we are we

664
01:11:12,933 --> 01:11:12,933
trying to prevent something that's really an issue? I mean, is there research from the

665
01:11:18,466 --> 01:11:18,466
international building code that this had there was enough problems with these things, or

666
01:11:22,500 --> 01:11:22,500
is it just an arbitrary standard, like the like the residence code where the state

667
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:27,200
of idaho is like, this is too expensive. It ruins business and it stops people from having

668
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:38,100
opportunities. Well, this is where I think we ought to pause and take a council discussion, because what was the purpose of allowing the three day permits in buildings? What why did we

669
01:11:45,100 --> 01:11:45,100
do that in the first place? Because I think that's the basis of where this is headed.

670
01:11:49,666 --> 01:11:49,666
yeah. And so one, one way that we've talked about it, trying to consolidate this ordinance

671
01:11:57,300 --> 01:11:57,300
is the purpose was particularly to help places like the museums that had events where they were

672
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:04,800
and they had alcohol at the event. But it has turned out to be a business practice, which

673
01:12:12,333 --> 01:12:12,333
has helped some business groups go. And did we intend that the three day permits could be just

674
01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:20,700
drawn again and again and again because and this is where I have a question to, to make

675
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:26,200
sure I got this right. It is for location. So somebody who has their liquor license, they

676
01:12:32,666 --> 01:12:32,666
could do 300 events as long as there was no location more than 52 times. Is that the way I'm

677
01:12:38,700 --> 01:12:38,700
reading this? If they had the personnel, they could do 1500 events a year and go go all

678
01:12:44,433 --> 01:12:44,433
over and not at one location, only 52 right now. Yeah. And basically that's really for the

679
01:12:51,633 --> 01:12:51,633
this is about the location. It's not about the alcohol license. Okay, so why did we do

680
01:12:58,466 --> 01:12:58,466
the three day permit and what were we trying to accomplish? Because that's the key to what

681
01:13:02,933 --> 01:13:02,933
the question you're getting to, I think, and I think there's a lot of conversation about that,

682
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:07,200
right? Like I think the other broader issue is commercial establishments, right? I mean,

683
01:13:14,433 --> 01:13:18,433
I think that's, that's another question that we should come back to that because that definition is in here. But but yeah, I think that the the fact that we want to have caterers,

684
01:13:24,733 --> 01:13:24,733
I'll be honest with you, I think this is an unnecessary conversation just in my

685
01:13:29,700 --> 01:13:29,700
experience, because as a ceo who has to sign, you know, insurance documents and I have

686
01:13:35,666 --> 01:13:35,666
to plan annual dinners, my insurance will not let me run an annual dinner without

687
01:13:42,733 --> 01:13:42,733
signing that. I will not allow alcohol served unless there's a caterer present, because the

688
01:13:48,866 --> 01:13:52,633
liability is so high. Because if you overserve someone and it's a it's a company dinner and they drive and kill someone, we're on the hook for a couple million dollars. And the

689
01:13:56,833 --> 01:13:56,833
insurance companies know that. And so they have enforced that. And so, and that's where I

690
01:14:03,266 --> 01:14:03,266
think some of this comes to fruition, like with a museum or someone who wanted to do this.

691
01:14:09,066 --> 01:14:09,066
and that was never going to happen, where we go back into a building like that and make it

692
01:14:13,700 --> 01:14:13,700
safe and do a sprinkler like that was going to be millions of dollars. And so we were

693
01:14:18,166 --> 01:14:18,166
trying to find a way forward, is what I think we were trying to do. Look for right now. Back

694
01:14:23,166 --> 01:14:23,166
off the nonprofit one, because that's a separate section. We'll come back to it there too.

695
01:14:30,633 --> 01:14:30,633
and I've got two views in my head on that one. This one is just for we've established a

696
01:14:35,966 --> 01:14:35,966
business practice that allows a building that was used for some purpose to be converted to an

697
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:44,000
event center and start having catered ■events. Now they can do that at 52 weeks of the year,

698
01:14:51,366 --> 01:14:51,366
or well, they can do it unlimited right now. No. Can I just answer your a couple quick

699
01:14:57,733 --> 01:15:01,333
questions that you had, and then that might give you a little bit more to talk about. But the building code establishes these safety margins by an attorney, a

700
01:15:09,966 --> 01:15:09,966
firefighter, a building official, a business owner. So those collective that's a

701
01:15:14,666 --> 01:15:14,666
collective or consensus document that have agreed like, hey, these are the minimum

702
01:15:18,900 --> 01:15:18,900
standards. So the information that we're sharing with you today are the minimum standards

703
01:15:23,666 --> 01:15:23,666
for people who are serving and drinking alcohol. Secondly, the what that's done at the

704
01:15:30,733 --> 01:15:30,733
international level, right? Like that's the ibc, the irc. To me, that's a pretty broad

705
01:15:36,866 --> 01:15:36,866
regulatory agency that seems to have no oversight. It's driven by the state of idaho, with the

706
01:15:42,266 --> 01:15:42,266
exceptions that I talked about, that have driven up pricing of housing to a point where it's

707
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:46,800
almost unacceptable. And that's why we don't have sprinklers. So I want to know what's

708
01:15:52,033 --> 01:15:52,033
actually safe versus this group that says, oh, this is the highest level. It's a little

709
01:15:56,900 --> 01:15:56,900
bit like transom, like windows in someone's basement. Yeah. That we've had how many deaths

710
01:16:01,800 --> 01:16:01,800
in the, in the country on that, but it's an increase the cost of every house by $40,000 to

711
01:16:06,666 --> 01:16:10,300
make sure we have big windows, you know, like, where's the, where's the balance of regulation is what I'm trying to say here. But the reason the alcohol, alcohol is a big

712
01:16:15,700 --> 01:16:15,700
component in the building code and fire code, as is it looks at people that cannot preserve

713
01:16:20,833 --> 01:16:20,833
their own life if they're crowded and they get trampled. Well, we have young children,

714
01:16:26,300 --> 01:16:26,300
so the fire code and building code really shrink down the size and increase the amount of

715
01:16:31,233 --> 01:16:31,233
fire protection that's in the building or safety protective systems. When we have small

716
01:16:37,666 --> 01:16:37,666
children, when we have people that are sedated and getting procedures, when we have

717
01:16:43,133 --> 01:16:43,133
elderly that are bedridden, and when we have people that drink alcohol. And so it's designed

718
01:16:47,933 --> 01:16:47,933
to kick in to require some of those other safety requirements like sprinklers or, or alarm

719
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:55,000
systems, because it's going to be a delayed progress to get people out of the fire code is

720
01:17:00,166 --> 01:17:00,166
all about getting people out. Like just like you said, those windows, yes, we use them for

721
01:17:04,266 --> 01:17:04,266
egress, but we also use them to, to fight fire through them as well. But it's, it's all

722
01:17:09,066 --> 01:17:09,066
designed to get people out. And the timing that they've studied what it takes to take 42.5 year

723
01:17:13,366 --> 01:17:13,366
olds out of a daycare is longer than, than a fifth grade class. So but that's why, that's why

724
01:17:19,166 --> 01:17:19,166
the people who, who are drinking that are probably had a slow response because of that.

725
01:17:24,566 --> 01:17:24,566
that's why that category kind of gets limited. Do you have any number? For me, it is

726
01:17:32,533 --> 01:17:32,533
200,000 plus at least right to sprinkler it. It really depends on quite a bit on, on the size

727
01:17:38,966 --> 01:17:38,966
of the building and stuff. That's probably right around. One example is, is cody just

728
01:17:45,133 --> 01:17:45,133
mentioned the under 5000 square square feet or under 100. A lot of our small restaurants in

729
01:17:50,433 --> 01:17:50,433
town that serve alcohol do not need these extra safety because they are small enough. Yeah

730
01:17:57,600 --> 01:17:57,600
they are, you know, franklin cheesesteak, the piehole places where you can serve and drink

731
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:02,000
because they're under that perimeter. And you will see a design market in architecture

732
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:06,600
that are building right under the parameters, which is great in, in it's, it meets the

733
01:18:11,666 --> 01:18:11,666
building code and they know exactly those thresholds and, and kind of design right under

734
01:18:17,733 --> 01:18:17,733
them. Yeah. So, so really, when it comes to introducing alcohol into a building, the, the

735
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:25,000
requirements really get tightened up really, really fast because you can do like an

736
01:18:30,033 --> 01:18:30,033
a three, which is an event center without alcohol. And the, and it opens up quite a lot. So

737
01:18:39,466 --> 01:18:39,466
the test and, and the research and everything like that. And then once you introduce alcohol

738
01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:45,500
into a building, the, the requirements really tighten up. It really sounds like it's

739
01:18:51,266 --> 01:18:51,266
because they may not be coherent, making good choices. Great. Yeah, but, but one of

740
01:18:58,466 --> 01:18:58,466
the huge differences is you'll see is where these sprinklers at that 90, 99 person level, we

741
01:19:05,466 --> 01:19:05,466
have buildings that pull alcohol permits that they could have 1800 people in there with

742
01:19:10,833 --> 01:19:10,833
no sprinklers. So those are those things. When you look at the fire deaths in america, we

743
01:19:16,866 --> 01:19:16,866
have a theater that was the worst in 602 people. But everything under that bar,

744
01:19:21,500 --> 01:19:21,500
restaurant, bar, restaurant, bar, restaurant, concert, place, bar, restaurant and, and, and

745
01:19:26,933 --> 01:19:26,933
it's just a, we try to learn from those tragedies and put things in place. And that's why

746
01:19:32,433 --> 01:19:32,433
they're in the building code and fire code today. But. I think that's just the best way

747
01:19:38,966 --> 01:19:38,966
I can kind of. This is just a way to find that route forward over time, as opposed to just

748
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:46,000
implementing it right now. And it's not going to it's not going to eliminate alcohol

749
01:19:51,033 --> 01:19:51,033
permits. Even after the fifth year, it allows up to 12 per location. So if you're a

750
01:19:55,366 --> 01:19:55,366
business and you have alcohol events once a month for your employees, that's fine. Or if

751
01:19:59,700 --> 01:19:59,700
you have like a few weddings a year. Sure, sure. Yeah. But if you're going to be, well,

752
01:20:04,333 --> 01:20:04,333
really what we're trying to get at is if you're going to treat yourself like an alcohol

753
01:20:08,566 --> 01:20:08,566
establishment, you need to come up to code so it's safe for people. So and then both that

754
01:20:14,066 --> 01:20:14,066
both the safety and the unfair competition aspect. So what did we do? The three day permits.

755
01:20:21,666 --> 01:20:21,666
yeah. The only thing I could think of would be, you know, politics, these, these random

756
01:20:30,100 --> 01:20:30,100
holiday opportunities that businesses get. Are you just saying opposed to one day or

757
01:20:36,366 --> 01:20:36,366
when you ask that question? No, because I, as I remember it, came from events like at the

758
01:20:42,766 --> 01:20:42,766
museum of idaho. Well, the charity ones definitely. Yeah, mostly annual events, but

759
01:20:47,133 --> 01:20:47,133
sometimes like quarterly events, which is a little more like the museum. I may be wrong, but I

760
01:20:52,266 --> 01:20:52,266
think the art museum periodically rents their space out to various groups. So they

761
01:20:59,766 --> 01:20:59,766
felt like. If they got the if they got somebody with the permit to come and serve the

762
01:21:06,933 --> 01:21:06,933
alcohol, that would be, it would have to come to the code. Do you see we were encouraging

763
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:12,200
the non. It is nonprofit, but they were actually doing it by renting it out to somebody else,

764
01:21:16,433 --> 01:21:16,433
if that makes sense. So that was my understanding of why we did it. But is that still why

765
01:21:24,533 --> 01:21:24,533
we're doing it? Because we have created a business practice. I believe that we didn't

766
01:21:29,600 --> 01:21:29,600
necessarily an unintended consequence of the. Yeah, yeah. So we have because we didn't

767
01:21:34,233 --> 01:21:34,233
put a limit on how many you could have. Right. So this does that. But I think it was also

768
01:21:39,700 --> 01:21:39,700
that there there was that practice happening. Right. And it wasn't it wasn't like the

769
01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:45,200
museum of idaho was suddenly up. All right, right, right, right, right. Like, right. Like, yeah,

770
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:50,600
yeah, it was there is this, this idea that, that there is trying to make a shift in their

771
01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:56,800
business practices. Exactly. Yeah. So it isn't really a change of use. So it was trying

772
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:01,000
to thread that needle that that change of use wasn't, was equally as aggressive, right.

773
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:08,600
for, for a business or for a, a center. So if that was our main purpose, then that's where this

774
01:22:20,433 --> 01:22:20,433
kind of came from. To say we didn't intend to establish a business practice that would go

775
01:22:25,800 --> 01:22:25,800
on as a three day a week nightclub. Yeah. Because that really maybe you've gone beyond

776
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:35,000
you actually have changed the use. Does that make sense? Yes. Now you really are doing this.

777
01:22:39,533 --> 01:22:39,533
we're trying to we're working our way back out of this hole. That's where this all comes

778
01:22:44,433 --> 01:22:44,433
from. And, and like getting these numbers is, is a little bit guesswork. So I'm not

779
01:22:50,266 --> 01:22:50,266
saying these are the best numbers we could, we could decide to change them. And 12th

780
01:22:54,366 --> 01:22:54,366
may be too small. I don't know. But that's what the plan was behind it. Trying to adjust to

781
01:23:02,166 --> 01:23:02,166
what we thought was the original purpose. Am I speaking correctly? Yeah, you're

782
01:23:08,666 --> 01:23:08,666
speaking correctly. It's just I just also want to reiterate this really puts us in a

783
01:23:14,333 --> 01:23:14,333
dilemma. So outside of the, the permitting that we have allowed, if if someone is serving

784
01:23:21,933 --> 01:23:21,933
alcohol in the building, that's not a, a two and we get a complaint and we go inspect it,

785
01:23:27,733 --> 01:23:27,733
we bring it to cody, he puts a stop work order and closes it down. It's not supposed to be

786
01:23:32,833 --> 01:23:32,833
happening there. But then on the back side, through the state, I can permit. Right. And

787
01:23:38,900 --> 01:23:38,900
we decide what their level of people can be in there and declare that maximum occupancy,

788
01:23:44,366 --> 01:23:44,366
which we just we have to look at the design value on the blueprints that say this. And

789
01:23:50,200 --> 01:23:50,200
for the museum, it's a 1040. For other places, it's 1920. And when you go back to look at

790
01:23:55,833 --> 01:23:55,833
when someone's asking me, I want to be a bar today or tonight. Here's the threshold.

791
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:02,500
it's that 5000ft■s, 100 people on the main floor. Or I'm or I'm making it up. Like you said,

792
01:24:10,766 --> 01:24:10,766
I'm making up a number. Or do you feel differently? Because I think very valid to what you

793
01:24:16,700 --> 01:24:16,700
just said about I'm being a bar for the night, right? Where someone's trying to create

794
01:24:20,766 --> 01:24:24,766
revenue and they're really. But what if it's a wedding and you're just having wine there? And suddenly it's a sprinkler question as to whether or not you make that, you know what I

795
01:24:29,033 --> 01:24:29,033
mean? Like there seems like there's a difference there, but it can't be for you as a

796
01:24:33,833 --> 01:24:37,066
regulator that makes it difficult. Yeah. I look at it essentially the same. If you're an event center, downtown event center, and they hold events 300 plus days a year and they

797
01:24:42,233 --> 01:24:42,233
have an alcohol license, some of these event centers may have their own license or they may

798
01:24:46,300 --> 01:24:46,300
cater. It depends on what their circumstances are, but I don't I don't look at them any

799
01:24:51,833 --> 01:24:51,833
differently than cody. Any other comments about that? And sometimes we, we tend to, to

800
01:24:57,800 --> 01:24:57,800
just focus on the fire sprinkler systems in these buildings. But it really comes

801
01:25:03,533 --> 01:25:03,533
down to a lot more than that. We want to make sure there's enough exits in place so that

802
01:25:11,066 --> 01:25:11,066
we don't have 100 people in. They only have one exit door out of that building. That

803
01:25:17,566 --> 01:25:17,566
could be a very dangerous situation. The doors open up. Or if we do have multiple doors,

804
01:25:24,766 --> 01:25:24,766
we don't have exit signs. So if the building is filled with smoke, people don't know where

805
01:25:30,900 --> 01:25:30,900
to go. There's there's quite a lot of things in the building code that, that we look at, not

806
01:25:39,466 --> 01:25:39,466
just fire sprinklers in those areas. And we just want to, as we look at the buildings and

807
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:49,000
evaluate them for events, we just want to make sure that in an emergency, they they can get

808
01:25:56,666 --> 01:25:56,666
out and find hydrogen and do their job. Yeah. The density value changes drastically. In

809
01:26:03,966 --> 01:26:03,966
an a2, you can be one person up to seven square feet, and other mercantile stores one every

810
01:26:10,733 --> 01:26:10,733
300ft. So we go from a 49, a 49 occupancy load as just a mercantile store, or they can

811
01:26:19,633 --> 01:26:19,633
be 300 and something as a a2. And so that's the conflict. And in my mind, I see the permits

812
01:26:26,266 --> 01:26:26,266
of all the random celebratory events that you want to have in town. We are here to go inspect

813
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,633
the building, make sure it meets the basic safety requirements, and support all these great activities. However, just like councilman francis said, then you have others that

814
01:26:41,366 --> 01:26:41,366
are just turning it as a business. That's really conflict with with the intent

815
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:45,800
in my mind. So. Okay. We cover those last two. We deal with those. Yeah. Let's see if we

816
01:26:58,900 --> 01:26:58,900
got this. Yeah. And then just as a again, this limits only this limited. The downscaling

817
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:07,600
process only applies to alcohol catering permits. It does not apply to any charitable event.

818
01:27:11,966 --> 01:27:11,966
permits is again, the parameters there are different. They have to give it to a. For

819
01:27:17,666 --> 01:27:17,666
public purpose. One of the other changes that was proposed to be made is that currently,

820
01:27:26,500 --> 01:27:26,500
to get a catering permit, you have to have city alcohol license and. The proposed

821
01:27:33,433 --> 01:27:33,433
change here is to allow. Even if you don't have a city alcohol license, but you have a

822
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:39,400
state or county one that's required, that you could come in and do a catering event here

823
01:27:44,366 --> 01:27:44,366
in the city. So it would allow out of city alcohol license holders to come into the city.

824
01:27:50,500 --> 01:27:50,500
so that's one of the changes. And council president francis, did you have a I can't remember

825
01:27:55,733 --> 01:27:55,733
exactly what the reason was, but we at times, I believe we have events where we have out

826
01:28:00,333 --> 01:28:00,333
of out of city alcohol vendors. Is that correct? Is that the reason? I think the idea was

827
01:28:06,200 --> 01:28:06,200
that some some people have licenses, do catering, but they're located in the county

828
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:12,000
or they're located in. So they wouldn't have a city license, city alcohol license, but they

829
01:28:18,533 --> 01:28:18,533
have a state license and they have a county license or local whatever they have, they could

830
01:28:25,633 --> 01:28:25,633
come to idaho falls and cater an event. That was the idea. Yeah. So that was that was the

831
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:31,600
idea behind this. Otherwise you'd be limiting only caterers that were premised in idaho

832
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:37,200
falls could cater an event, and we didn't want to restrict it at that level. That was what

833
01:28:43,066 --> 01:28:43,066
was behind that. Okay. Moving on to the next one. Hold on, can I skip a slide? Okay. Sorry,

834
01:28:54,066 --> 01:28:54,066
I apologize. This going back to the alcohol permits that changes again if there's a do

835
01:29:00,933 --> 01:29:00,933
not the proposed changes to if there's a stop work notice or do not occupy order in place,

836
01:29:05,700 --> 01:29:08,966
they can't get one because obviously there's a problem in the building. And then also when there's an alcohol catering permit issued, it has a number on there that I

837
01:29:12,866 --> 01:29:12,866
believe is five sets of the maximum number of people, and that'll be on there. And then

838
01:29:18,566 --> 01:29:22,566
part of this code change will say, you can't exceed that number, because sometimes it'll be lower than the normal building limits. Right. As I explained to you tonight, when

839
01:29:27,300 --> 01:29:30,900
there's alcohol involved, that number, the number of people that are allowed to be there shrinks drastically at times. And that actually wouldn't have required the ordinance because

840
01:29:36,733 --> 01:29:36,733
we already started that practice on the application. Now the caterer has to identify

841
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:41,800
how many people we get from the fire department. Yes. In the building official approves

842
01:29:48,133 --> 01:29:48,133
those occupancy, the max occupancy load in the space. And so we're we're verifying

843
01:29:53,900 --> 01:29:53,900
with him or on a on a site approved plan. And sometimes we'll go. If we don't have that

844
01:30:00,700 --> 01:30:00,700
history, we'll go measure and apply the calculus and confirm it with the building. And the

845
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:06,600
reason for putting it as a requirement in the ordinance is. So if people violate that now,

846
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:11,200
we can move on to potentially move to suspend or revoke the license. Okay. So sorry. Okay.

847
01:30:18,300 --> 01:30:18,300
going okay. So going forward, we already we already covered this out of city people,

848
01:30:23,066 --> 01:30:23,066
alcohol license holders could do alcohol catering permit. Okay, so one issue that we've

849
01:30:31,400 --> 01:30:31,400
found over the years is this, this loophole of a person that has what's clearly a commercial

850
01:30:38,833 --> 01:30:38,833
establishment will have an event and they'll just lease it out to a private party, and

851
01:30:45,366 --> 01:30:45,366
then that private party will serve alcohol. We go to, you know, site and they say, this

852
01:30:51,233 --> 01:30:51,233
is a private event. What are you doing? You can't cite us. And so in a way, just by dint

853
01:30:58,000 --> 01:30:58,000
of a lease, they're saying you can't you can't regulate our space and you can't prohibit us

854
01:31:04,333 --> 01:31:04,333
from having alcohol. So do you have anything to add on that, chief? Okay. So the proposed

855
01:31:13,366 --> 01:31:13,366
solution is to have defined commercial establishment, and you'll see that in special

856
01:31:19,533 --> 01:31:19,533
attention to that. That's in section four, two one in the definitions section. Basically,

857
01:31:27,433 --> 01:31:27,433
if you hold yourself out as a commercial establishment and you're not a residence or a

858
01:31:32,533 --> 01:31:32,533
hotel or motel or something like that, your commercial establishment. And so the

859
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:40,000
proposed changes are, unless you have an alcohol license or a catering permit or a

860
01:31:45,700 --> 01:31:45,700
charitable events permit, you can't. The owner or operator can't sell, etc. Alcohol from a

861
01:31:53,766 --> 01:31:53,766
commercial establishment. So you've got to get a license, otherwise you can't do it. You

862
01:31:58,533 --> 01:31:58,533
also can't lease or rent to another person knowing that the person would serve alcohol. So

863
01:32:04,166 --> 01:32:07,400
again, it's trying to close that loophole. If somebody's saying, hey, I have a lease. And so they were private event. And on the flip side, a person renting or leasing commercial

864
01:32:13,533 --> 01:32:13,533
establishment can't sell alcohol again unless they have the proper licenses or permits.

865
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:20,000
and so it's coming at it from both angles, both the owner as well as the person leasing it

866
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:24,800
have a responsibility not to serve alcohol unless they have the proper licenses or permits.

867
01:32:31,233 --> 01:32:31,233
any questions on that? Yeah, I have all kinds of problems with this. First of all, under our

868
01:32:38,766 --> 01:32:38,766
rules, like, I mean, we're not the regulatory agency, right? Idaho state police and abc is

869
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:43,500
the regulatory. And to say that commercial spaces, I mean, this even makes me question whether

870
01:32:49,933 --> 01:32:49,933
if I'm a consultant and I have people over for a beer, I'm a commercial business. Like that

871
01:32:58,233 --> 01:32:58,233
seems problematic. If this seems very, very, very broad and not allowed under idaho

872
01:33:04,733 --> 01:33:04,733
code 23916, when we talk about what a city can and can't regulate based on when there's

873
01:33:11,800 --> 01:33:11,800
a state regulatory agency telling us what we can and can't. John, will you repeat

874
01:33:16,166 --> 01:33:16,166
that a little louder just because I'm writing this down? Yeah. My dad for what I dapa

875
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:22,000
11.05. If you go look it up, abc is the regulatory agency alcohol bureau. So the state

876
01:33:29,233 --> 01:33:29,233
office of the state police are the ones who run alcohol laws. Right. And we are dillon's real

877
01:33:36,833 --> 01:33:36,833
estate. And and we don't get to do things that we just want to do. And, and making commercial

878
01:33:41,866 --> 01:33:41,866
establishments a place that can't serve alcohol. It's not it's something they've

879
01:33:46,100 --> 01:33:46,100
considered. And they just redid this whole law in 2025 and didn't witness it. And this is

880
01:33:51,966 --> 01:33:51,966
an unusual space events, event centers, you know, downtown events center is a perfect

881
01:33:58,733 --> 01:33:58,733
example of someone who just took a business model for it. Right? So I just don't think

882
01:34:03,766 --> 01:34:03,766
we're, I don't, I don't think this is an option for us to do. And I can look into that if

883
01:34:10,733 --> 01:34:10,733
you'd like me to. Can we meet afterwards? You can. And we have july. I mean, I know we're

884
01:34:15,700 --> 01:34:15,700
not voting on it for a while, but I just think we're going to have to get very granular if we

885
01:34:20,700 --> 01:34:20,700
want to kind of take care of some of these things and look at it, dapa, instead of just,

886
01:34:25,666 --> 01:34:25,666
you know, the this doesn't say you can't serve alcohol in a commercial establishment. It

887
01:34:31,233 --> 01:34:31,233
says you have to have a license or permit. So if you have catering permit, you can have

888
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:38,400
alcohol there. But so that doesn't change what I just said about being a consultancy

889
01:34:43,366 --> 01:34:47,366
practice in your home. You're going to get a catering permit for every time you want to drink a beer. I mean, every, every, every residence in the city that runs a very specific

890
01:34:55,600 --> 01:34:55,600
against residency in this though, I mean, if I remember, but if but if you're a

891
01:35:00,500 --> 01:35:00,500
commercial entity with this definition, so you're going to have to tighten that. Clark,

892
01:35:04,933 --> 01:35:04,933
could we pull up the. Madam clerk can we pull up the clean version of the alcohol

893
01:35:09,266 --> 01:35:12,766
ordinance? Beyond that, it's just a whole question of whether this is allowed. This was the core of the issue, if you remember. We talked. Oh yeah, I know. I mean, that's

894
01:35:17,066 --> 01:35:17,066
why it's here. I mean, that's why we're doing all 34 pages. And I'll be honest with you,

895
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:21,800
this the other thing is I think this is a year long process. My my siblings, the attorneys say

896
01:35:30,500 --> 01:35:30,500
that there is nothing more complex than alcohol law. So this is the one thing that it

897
01:35:35,433 --> 01:35:35,433
does say on commercial establishment, any location upon which any business is

898
01:35:39,533 --> 01:35:43,100
conducted that provides, extends, offers, sells or otherwise makes available goods, services or facilities to the public, not including a person's place of residence

899
01:35:47,400 --> 01:35:47,400
that is not made available to the public and not including the temporary living space of a

900
01:35:52,100 --> 01:35:56,066
hotel, motel or other establishment that provides temporary living space for individuals. Yeah. So what about a hairdresser at home? You know, I would say the

901
01:36:02,566 --> 01:36:02,566
hairdresser makes her place available. So I just think this whole piece of this is really

902
01:36:09,433 --> 01:36:09,433
not something we're ready to take on. I think we really need an in depth understanding of

903
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:14,800
whether this is allowed with event centers, because we probably have over 100 or 200

904
01:36:19,466 --> 01:36:19,466
event centers in this city that think that they. I signed a contract with an event center

905
01:36:24,266 --> 01:36:24,266
last year that said, yes, you can serve alcohol if you have your insurance and you do all

906
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:28,400
your things and. And so if you get a caterer in there, they didn't care if I got a caterer

907
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:37,933
or not with that, with that event center. So I think there's mass confusion about what is, is. And I think there's a large gray area here under idaho rules and under the

908
01:36:42,666 --> 01:36:42,666
alcohol rules. And and then we have the county rules. We have the city rules. And the

909
01:36:47,233 --> 01:36:47,233
complexity of that is just not us here saying, oh, this is what we want. I think we have a

910
01:36:52,233 --> 01:36:52,233
lot of work ahead and lots of times and this is, again, I'll look into this lots of times

911
01:36:57,200 --> 01:36:57,200
the state law sets a floor, but then explicitly says you can increase that cities. My

912
01:37:01,566 --> 01:37:01,566
impression is so far from my review of the alcohol state alcohol code, is that we're

913
01:37:05,966 --> 01:37:05,966
allowed to be more stringent and. And I got the opposite view was that we're allowed to

914
01:37:11,700 --> 01:37:11,700
have concurrent licenses, but not we can't become more restrictive. And I think some

915
01:37:18,500 --> 01:37:18,500
of that is borne out of the corruption schemes and corruption scandals out of out

916
01:37:22,866 --> 01:37:22,866
of like the mob era. Because when you have 1 or 2 people that were in charge, you got

917
01:37:28,233 --> 01:37:28,233
ugly. When cities had control over over states and counties. So it's just I don't know that,

918
01:37:35,833 --> 01:37:35,833
but I just think it's something we have to consider because the complexity of this is pretty

919
01:37:41,700 --> 01:37:41,700
intense. I just have one comment real quick about that because I was had a lot of

920
01:37:46,533 --> 01:37:46,533
questions about 4 or 5 years ago. And I, I can't remember this, this the captain, I think

921
01:37:51,966 --> 01:37:51,966
it's captain state, but I did have a conference call with him and wanted to know the process.

922
01:37:59,233 --> 01:37:59,233
and he said, we have we have our oversight of the alcohol licenses and permits, but we

923
01:38:07,166 --> 01:38:07,166
rely on you guys in our local cities, like we don't send inspectors out. It's up to the

924
01:38:12,933 --> 01:38:12,933
fire inspectors to go validate. Are they in the right space? Does it mean basic fire safety

925
01:38:18,666 --> 01:38:18,666
inspection? And cody and I had discussed this, discussed this quite a bit over the last month,

926
01:38:24,766 --> 01:38:24,766
couple months since I've been home. And cody, can you just talk about the the code council?

927
01:38:33,733 --> 01:38:33,733
when you when you asked about how many permits or how many times we could allow alcohol in

928
01:38:40,300 --> 01:38:40,300
the outside of an a to. Because I have just. So yeah, so fire department had asked me, you

929
01:38:47,433 --> 01:38:47,433
know, if I could look into how many times they could allow an alcohol event in a building

930
01:38:57,566 --> 01:38:57,566
that was not designed that way. And so I reached out to international code council on

931
01:39:03,633 --> 01:39:03,633
that, and they came back and said, the number is zero. What? Tell me what international code

932
01:39:10,566 --> 01:39:10,566
council, I don't know. That's who does the international building code. Yeah, they're

933
01:39:15,333 --> 01:39:15,333
the ones that actually create the ipc, the fire code, existing building codes, all of

934
01:39:24,300 --> 01:39:24,300
our codes for most all of our codes come right from icc. I think that's probably true, but

935
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:30,400
I don't think that is how abc and adapa is reading. So. Could you have a madam clerk, if we

936
01:39:40,933 --> 01:39:40,933
could go down to the definition of commercial establishment just for reference, that's the

937
01:39:45,100 --> 01:39:48,966
definition of commercial establishment right there in the middle of the page. Now on the top of the page. That is the one that I just read. Yeah, yeah. That's correct. Any

938
01:39:54,766 --> 01:39:58,366
location upon which any business is conducted that provides, extends, offers, sells or otherwise makes available goods, services or facilities to the public, not

939
01:40:02,700 --> 01:40:06,666
including a person's place of residence is not made available to the public, and not including the temporary living space of a hotel, motel or other establishment. Provides

940
01:40:10,133 --> 01:40:10,133
temporary living space for individuals. So with with that definition as it is currently.

941
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:16,000
and and this is council's ordinance. And if you want to tweak the definition, we

942
01:40:20,166 --> 01:40:20,166
absolutely could tweak it. But the way this is what the intent behind it was. If you're if

943
01:40:26,133 --> 01:40:26,133
you're a business open to the public. Again, the idea here is we're trying to protect safety.

944
01:40:31,466 --> 01:40:31,466
so if you're not, you know, if you're not getting your alcohol, the alcohol license, alcohol

945
01:40:36,900 --> 01:40:40,700
permits, charitable event permits, what that does is allows us to review and say, hey, are you safe for consumption of alcohol? And we don't have a mechanism for

946
01:40:47,300 --> 01:40:47,300
saying, because if we don't have something like this, then a person can say, I just don't

947
01:40:52,166 --> 01:40:52,166
get a license, then I'll just sell alcohol. And that's kind of the idea of kind of, did you

948
01:40:57,133 --> 01:40:57,133
find a clause like this anywhere else? Because this isn't in the boise ordinance,

949
01:41:01,733 --> 01:41:01,733
is it? No, no, this is very yeah. This doesn't seem normal. When I started looking. So

950
01:41:09,233 --> 01:41:13,233
there must be another way to comment because you're right, you can't just go the other way, right? There must be some middle ground. There's got to be some. And basically what

951
01:41:17,100 --> 01:41:20,966
this is saying is if your commercial establishment, you've got to get a license or permit, otherwise you can't serve alcohol because it's a regulated item. And that's,

952
01:41:24,133 --> 01:41:28,000
that's what this that's the intent. And that's what this was trying to, to accomplish. But when I talk with attorneys, when I talk with, you know, kind of the experts, that's not

953
01:41:32,700 --> 01:41:32,700
been the concept around alcohol consumption at a private event in a business or a building you

954
01:41:39,166 --> 01:41:39,166
own, you put up signs that say, this is a private event and the public's not welcome. So say

955
01:41:46,433 --> 01:41:46,433
you want to put a wedding on it. You're my neighbor has this nice backyard. Or if you want

956
01:41:52,966 --> 01:41:52,966
to put it on at your place of business for a night where you're going to have a light

957
01:41:57,900 --> 01:41:57,900
after five or a business after hours from the chamber, and you want to serve alcohol. If it's

958
01:42:02,033 --> 01:42:02,033
a private event that was by invitees and you say to the public, you're not allowed here

959
01:42:06,200 --> 01:42:10,066
right now, then someone showing up with beer and alcohol is perfectly acceptable. And it has been in the state of idaho for the last forever. And so I think that's where we're

960
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:16,000
finding this tension, is that that hasn't ever been kind of resolved at the state level, I

961
01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:21,400
do. If I saw the backyard example that that's a residence, that would be it's not a

962
01:42:25,633 --> 01:42:25,633
commercial establishment. But yes, if you're under this proposed amendment, if you are

963
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:30,800
a commercial establishment and you say, hey, we're now a private event, then yes, this

964
01:42:35,133 --> 01:42:35,133
is what this would apply. And the answer would be an alcohol permit. Well, that's if you're

965
01:42:40,700 --> 01:42:40,700
going to force that issue. But I think that's where you have I think that's where you're up

966
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:47,200
against some legal problems. This is really interesting because because, you know, one

967
01:42:53,833 --> 01:42:53,833
of the things that I love attorneys, you will find an attorney to argue both sides of

968
01:42:57,900 --> 01:42:57,900
every point known to man. I mean, it's designed as an adversarial system, right? So

969
01:43:03,066 --> 01:43:03,066
if when we talked, so I was a little confused on a, b, c, and the state police enforce this,

970
01:43:09,500 --> 01:43:09,500
they can, but they don't. We do it. That's why concurrence. We will call a, b, c and they help

971
01:43:16,066 --> 01:43:16,066
us out. We will call the state police. They will help us. But if we're just going to sit and

972
01:43:21,000 --> 01:43:21,000
wait for them to do enforcement, that's that's just not going to happen very often. What we so

973
01:43:26,433 --> 01:43:26,433
what I've talked about a, b, c and the state police, their opinion is what the the stuff

974
01:43:32,866 --> 01:43:32,866
you're describing is already prohibited by state law and go ahead and arrest for it and

975
01:43:38,266 --> 01:43:38,266
cite for it. That's the opinion from the alcohol beverage control and the state police

976
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:43,600
that those those, you know, those, those commercial establishments that are serving

977
01:43:50,866 --> 01:43:50,866
alcohol are doing so outside of the the requirements to be an alcohol establishment. So

978
01:43:59,166 --> 01:43:59,166
that's their, you know, that. Do you think it's you make sure that was clear that they said

979
01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:03,200
they were closed for business that that do you see what I'm saying? Like that matters

980
01:44:07,800 --> 01:44:07,800
immensely. And then say then is it okay to. Yeah, this is what I'm I'm sure there's an

981
01:44:13,200 --> 01:44:16,966
attorney to argue that's just fine because that's what they're arguing in court. When we arrest them, you will find an attorney that argues that the whole time. But but our our

982
01:44:21,100 --> 01:44:21,100
information that we have, whether it's right or wrong, is that that's already illegal

983
01:44:25,500 --> 01:44:25,500
under state law. We are struggling enforcement here in idaho falls because what you're

984
01:44:30,833 --> 01:44:30,833
describing, because people are arguing both sides to the point what we were hoping this

985
01:44:35,866 --> 01:44:35,866
ordinance would do was make it very clear, hey, you can't do that. My seat says, let's find

986
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:42,800
out so that we don't do that and then get sued for a couple million dollars. Does that make

987
01:44:47,500 --> 01:44:47,500
sense? Like, let's let's get it right. So let's get it in writing from from abc and in

988
01:44:53,166 --> 01:44:53,166
napa and from the state police. And then let's look at the court cases because this has

989
01:44:59,333 --> 01:44:59,333
been this isn't like the first time this has happened. And I was shown the court cases where

990
01:45:03,933 --> 01:45:03,933
these charges were dismissed out of hand in other parts of the state when this was tried,

991
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:13,000
when they held up signs and they did these things. So that's what I'm saying is, let's find out what the answer is and make it predictable for the business communities, right?

992
01:45:17,166 --> 01:45:20,666
because there's 100 people's livelihoods. They're trying to figure this out to council member radford. I do think that this is intended to make it predictable. I mean, I agree we

993
01:45:25,233 --> 01:45:25,233
want to make sure that we are, you know, not in conflict with things that that are with the

994
01:45:32,500 --> 01:45:32,500
state. But, you know, as far as when it comes to fire code and and all of that, we are very

995
01:45:39,233 --> 01:45:39,233
careful when it, you know, 26ft wide and here's the radius turn and here's how we're going to

996
01:45:44,500 --> 01:45:44,500
fight it. And then to kind of throw our hands up and say, well, this is a private event

997
01:45:48,766 --> 01:45:48,766
and you've got doors that don't swing outward, you know, and then it's a it's a major

998
01:45:53,633 --> 01:45:53,633
catastrophe in the city of idaho falls. And we said, well, you know, we there was nothing

999
01:45:57,833 --> 01:45:57,833
we could do about it. There's, there's that tension there as well. You don't want, you know,

1000
01:46:01,933 --> 01:46:01,933
300 people. We're not going to go around, baby, you know, babysitting, but there has to

1001
01:46:06,033 --> 01:46:06,033
be some kind of understanding and compromise back and forth. Agreed. But I think if you're

1002
01:46:11,366 --> 01:46:11,366
having a private event, you're probably not having a 500, 000 people generally in these

1003
01:46:15,900 --> 01:46:15,900
locations. Are you renting it out for a private event? Yeah. And then that's another

1004
01:46:19,966 --> 01:46:19,966
question, right? The landlords have this. It's still a private event, but they were making

1005
01:46:25,033 --> 01:46:25,033
money on the front end because they're renting out their space to a private event. That's

1006
01:46:29,800 --> 01:46:29,800
exactly what I signed for and had. Right. Yes. But you know, you might. So you're not wrong.

1007
01:46:36,133 --> 01:46:36,133
what we do have to figure out, though, is what is actually true or not. But and I think I

1008
01:46:43,666 --> 01:46:43,666
think the catering permit option, I think might be a pretty good middle ground, but

1009
01:46:51,533 --> 01:46:51,533
I don't think it's a bad. So that's why I think we have to figure out from there, bring

1010
01:46:57,000 --> 01:46:57,000
that from. And I'll just say this too, the reason I say we don't use water, we hire water

1011
01:47:03,233 --> 01:47:03,233
attorney. Right. And so I think with this ordinance too, I think we should just send it

1012
01:47:07,933 --> 01:47:07,933
all through a few different alcohol attorneys. Like we can do that authorization. Yeah, we

1013
01:47:13,166 --> 01:47:13,166
need to get some money for it to happen. But that's what I think is that the, the

1014
01:47:18,233 --> 01:47:18,233
complexity of the interaction of the state, county, city and abc and idaho is so complex. Us

1015
01:47:24,733 --> 01:47:24,733
just saying, no, we should not allow commercial businesses to establish. And the definition

1016
01:47:29,700 --> 01:47:29,700
is going to have to be very clear. So anyway, that's on this piece. I'm going to make

1017
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:36,400
one more comment. I could go on, but you've given one side of the extreme of somebody runs an

1018
01:47:44,566 --> 01:47:44,566
architecture thing out of their home and has a beer with somebody. The other extreme is

1019
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:49,200
somebody says, I can make a lot more money if I have a warehouse, and I push all the

1020
01:47:53,600 --> 01:47:53,600
stuff over here, and this other becomes an event center, and people can come in and create

1021
01:47:59,300 --> 01:47:59,300
private parties and drink and bring their own booze, that creates a problem. And when

1022
01:48:04,133 --> 01:48:04,133
that creates a problem, when people can't get out, and we said we had a chance to prevent

1023
01:48:08,766 --> 01:48:08,766
that and we didn't, that's a responsibility too. So that's the other end of it. And that's

1024
01:48:14,700 --> 01:48:14,700
where we're trying. That's where this comes from is that very problem. And I just think

1025
01:48:19,566 --> 01:48:19,566
there's got to be someone who's done this. You know what I'm saying? In the state of idaho,

1026
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:24,000
this happened and across the country because when I just there has to be a more. And we

1027
01:48:29,266 --> 01:48:29,266
do have I mean, just for anybody who is watching and listening, we do have june 2nd

1028
01:48:35,433 --> 01:48:35,433
through june 21st for public outreach. And if we find that, as you know, we move forward

1029
01:48:41,466 --> 01:48:41,466
legally that there is some question there, we will as well, you know, rework it and there

1030
01:48:49,400 --> 01:48:49,400
will be opportunity to reach out in the next three weeks as well. That is something that

1031
01:48:53,500 --> 01:48:53,500
comes up in the, you know, anticipated timeline. So there is there is opportunity for

1032
01:48:57,900 --> 01:48:57,900
that. Council member. I appreciate you bringing that up. All right. I think I'll move on.

1033
01:49:02,666 --> 01:49:02,666
just an interest of time. Move on to the next slide. Okay. So one of the things that came to

1034
01:49:10,166 --> 01:49:10,166
our attention recently is that our ordinance, current ordinances don't are pretty

1035
01:49:17,266 --> 01:49:17,266
light on what the process is for suspension or revocation, as well as the bases for

1036
01:49:23,033 --> 01:49:23,033
suspension or revocation. If you notice, if you look at the wine and beer ordinances, it

1037
01:49:27,066 --> 01:49:27,066
doesn't even mention the word revocation. If I remember correctly. And then in our

1038
01:49:33,500 --> 01:49:33,500
liquor ordinance, it does mention revocation, but it's a very limited number of grounds,

1039
01:49:38,633 --> 01:49:38,633
which was kind of a surprise to the the then city clerk that we couldn't revoke, you know, say

1040
01:49:43,366 --> 01:49:43,366
that they, they, they became disqualified for a ground that wasn't in that specific list.

1041
01:49:48,700 --> 01:49:48,700
so we have the proposed solution is to be very clear and specify what can trigger

1042
01:49:56,233 --> 01:49:56,233
suspension or revocation process, and that there's a very. So if you look at the

1043
01:50:01,733 --> 01:50:01,733
state code for the way they handle their licenses, it's pretty ambiguous. It just kind

1044
01:50:06,800 --> 01:50:06,800
of goes to the director. The director can assess a fine or revocation or suspension. The

1045
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:12,400
recommendation was to make it very clear process. So if you're found, you know, if it's

1046
01:50:18,933 --> 01:50:18,933
found true that there's been one of those violations the first time within five years,

1047
01:50:23,666 --> 01:50:23,666
the suspension for seven days would be alcohol license, during which period you can't

1048
01:50:27,866 --> 01:50:27,866
serve any alcohol. And if you do during that period, then that's a basis for revocation.

1049
01:50:33,300 --> 01:50:33,300
second violation within five years, it's ten days suspension. Third violation would be 14

1050
01:50:37,633 --> 01:50:37,633
days and a $1,000 fine. And then a fourth violation is to revoke your city alcohol

1051
01:50:43,466 --> 01:50:43,466
license, all of them for that particular premises. But again, it's within a five year time

1052
01:50:50,700 --> 01:50:50,700
frame. So you would have to in order to have it revoked, you'd have to have four violations

1053
01:50:55,633 --> 01:50:55,633
within five years. So if you only had, you know, one violation every two years,

1054
01:51:01,366 --> 01:51:01,366
you're just never going to actually get to the point of getting revoked. So it kind of

1055
01:51:05,666 --> 01:51:05,666
allows you to kind of wipe the slate clean. So that was kind of the thinking there, along

1056
01:51:12,966 --> 01:51:12,966
with, does that include the paperwork errors of the trainers? Correct. So if you

1057
01:51:19,266 --> 01:51:19,266
look at for 2-24-2-20. So a it spells out. And for the alcohol, remember. Let me just double

1058
01:51:27,666 --> 01:51:27,666
check. But I'm pretty sure that when I did that I only had in there the time when you have 12

1059
01:51:33,300 --> 01:51:33,300
infractions that that can trigger revocation, suspension, nothing else in that particular

1060
01:51:37,833 --> 01:51:37,833
part of the ordinance. If you look at it, it spells out each individual part of our

1061
01:51:43,433 --> 01:51:43,433
ordinance. Again, let me just double check that we do it once. Okay. This made me think that

1062
01:51:50,900 --> 01:51:50,900
was true. Yeah. The only one in of chapter or of section 19, which is alcohol server

1063
01:51:58,566 --> 01:51:58,566
training is subsection c for which is the. 12 violations or more within a period of 18

1064
01:52:07,933 --> 01:52:07,933
months for the alcohol server. So that's correct. So I know that was one of the concerns

1065
01:52:13,666 --> 01:52:13,666
previously. Okay. Relatedly, our ordinance was pretty light on the appeals process. And

1066
01:52:26,300 --> 01:52:26,300
having come from the court of appeals or having clerked there, I'm kind of a appeals nut. And

1067
01:52:31,733 --> 01:52:31,733
so throughout the statute, you'll see now it's peppered with and appeals process for

1068
01:52:37,200 --> 01:52:37,200
when you when the two things happen, right. We made it so that the decisions to suspend

1069
01:52:44,033 --> 01:52:44,033
or revoke. Or just to deny or approve is made by the city clerk now. But the decision can

1070
01:52:53,300 --> 01:52:53,300
be appealed to city council. And your review is limited to whether substantial evidence

1071
01:52:57,966 --> 01:52:57,966
supports the factual findings of the clerk, and then whether the as a matter of law, based

1072
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:03,600
on those factual findings, the decision was correct. And so you'll see for each and every

1073
01:53:12,033 --> 01:53:12,033
one. So this is this is kind of detailed. I'm not going to go through this in detail, but

1074
01:53:16,333 --> 01:53:16,333
these are the code sections that are there in your packets for the details of what where

1075
01:53:21,833 --> 01:53:21,833
each section is that does what. So you see here there's the section. The first section is

1076
01:53:26,066 --> 01:53:26,066
for for an alcohol license, the clerk has authority to approve or deny. And then here's how it

1077
01:53:30,766 --> 01:53:30,766
gets appealed. And then here's the decision. You know, clerk gets to decide whether to

1078
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:35,000
suspend or revoke. It can also be appealed. Those sections are there for you. Same with

1079
01:53:40,833 --> 01:53:40,833
alcohol catering permit. Same with the charitable event permit. The appeals process for

1080
01:53:47,233 --> 01:53:47,233
the special event permit was a little bit different. Again, the special event permit, this

1081
01:53:52,600 --> 01:53:52,600
is where it's on city property park or a closed public street. The clerk similar to the others,

1082
01:53:59,133 --> 01:53:59,133
the clerk decides whether to approve or deny denial or revocation can be appealed to

1083
01:54:03,500 --> 01:54:03,500
city council. But. And maybe I need to go and revise this. Currently, there's no

1084
01:54:09,933 --> 01:54:09,933
revocation process for a special event permit except for the parks and rec director, the

1085
01:54:17,900 --> 01:54:21,766
fire chief, or the chief of police as they see a violation ongoing during an event, they can immediately terminate terminate the event. And our code currently provides that.

1086
01:54:24,866 --> 01:54:24,866
there's no appeal from that. Okay. But hopefully that will help. Having a clear appeals

1087
01:54:38,100 --> 01:54:38,100
process will allow it just to help everybody, the applicants as well as the city. Just some.

1088
01:54:47,866 --> 01:54:47,866
yeah. Can we go back? Yeah, I'm just curious about the fire chief, police chief and the

1089
01:54:54,966 --> 01:54:54,966
director or designee maybe. Oh, so that's automatically included under. It's one of the

1090
01:55:02,500 --> 01:55:02,500
it's one of the general sections of our city code. It says that if any. Basically, if

1091
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:07,200
any director is named in our city code, it includes any authorized people under that

1092
01:55:13,266 --> 01:55:13,266
director. So if chief johnson designates a sergeant to be the authorized over this sort of

1093
01:55:18,833 --> 01:55:22,300
thing, they could come and exercise their authority. Basically, it's been delegated. But that's in another part of our of our code that automatically says, if there's

1094
01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:26,200
a director that includes authorized designees, basically. Any other questions? Just just

1095
01:55:37,133 --> 01:55:37,133
please note that there were a lot of minor changes. I went through the state code. I

1096
01:55:41,433 --> 01:55:44,400
reviewed state code, tried to make it in compliance. Sometimes we had duplicative things where we were penalizing the exact same thing the state code was. And I was like,

1097
01:55:48,300 --> 01:55:48,300
there's no point in that. And so I removed those or sometimes added things. And so there are

1098
01:55:54,266 --> 01:55:54,266
a lot of changes. We didn't have time at this meeting to get through everything. Thanks.

1099
01:55:59,633 --> 01:56:03,000
council president francis, how many hours did you spend revising this thing? Probably. Probably at 20 hours, 25. Not as many hours as you did. Yeah. So some of the some of the

1100
01:56:10,200 --> 01:56:10,200
other changes for permits or special event permits, again, that's for when it's at city

1101
01:56:15,633 --> 01:56:15,633
owned property, we changed it so that you can have liquor at memorial drive plaza and any

1102
01:56:22,733 --> 01:56:22,733
closed public streets. Another change that we made is to give the chief of police and the

1103
01:56:29,866 --> 01:56:29,866
city attorney authority to compel production of certain items, specifically including

1104
01:56:35,433 --> 01:56:35,433
video surveillance. So if we have an alcohol establishment that, you know, we think we

1105
01:56:42,300 --> 01:56:46,066
have a crime that's related. And they said, hey, we left from this bar. We would just like the surveillance video so we can see what was happening before they left and get them.

1106
01:56:53,800 --> 01:56:53,800
okay. And then this is the anticipated timeline for the ordinance today, june 1st, is

1107
01:57:03,833 --> 01:57:03,833
the we're presenting it to for your consideration, june 2nd through the 21st will be public

1108
01:57:10,700 --> 01:57:10,700
outreach. I know our chief of staff, margaret winburn, wimborne, and others in our in

1109
01:57:15,533 --> 01:57:15,533
our city have been working on setting up times to meet with those in our community to do

1110
01:57:20,633 --> 01:57:20,633
public outreach director. Margaret. Yes. And then councilman francis has really

1111
01:57:26,833 --> 01:57:26,833
been leading that effort and is going to do some work with chief johnson, sort of

1112
01:57:31,900 --> 01:57:31,900
collaboratively going to meet with downtown merchants, especially. Yeah. And that

1113
01:57:37,333 --> 01:57:37,333
allows the public to give good feedback on on this ordinance. June 22nd, it's anticipated

1114
01:57:45,266 --> 01:57:45,266
we'll have a second work session to incorporate public feedback or change any other

1115
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:51,400
thinking, other changes that council sees fit. And then tentative date of july 9th for

1116
01:57:57,166 --> 01:57:57,166
whether to adopt the proposed amendments to the alcohol ordinance. I do have a question.

1117
01:58:03,600 --> 01:58:03,600
we kind of went back quickly back to the nonprofit. So if I read this right, a nonprofit

1118
01:58:15,533 --> 01:58:15,533
could purchase their own alcohol sealed keg and sealed bottles of wine and serve it

1119
01:58:25,933 --> 01:58:25,933
themselves under two hours without any kind of permit. Or did they apply for a catering

1120
01:58:33,533 --> 01:58:33,533
permit even though they don't have a license to get a catering? No, they could they

1121
01:58:38,133 --> 01:58:38,133
could get a charitable event permit. Okay. If they qualify, it has to be a public purpose.

1122
01:58:42,300 --> 01:58:42,300
you know, they donate the proceeds to a for a public purpose. So a museum, if for

1123
01:58:47,233 --> 01:58:47,233
itself it purchases its wine or whatever from a distributor and doesn't open it until the event,

1124
01:58:53,300 --> 01:58:57,166
and they do the serving themselves, they don't need a catering permit. They don't need any. That's correct. They, they get they get a charitable event, charitable. If they get

1125
01:59:01,066 --> 01:59:04,333
a charitable event permit. That's correct. They can, okay. They can do that themselves. And as far as the two hour thing, that only if it's over two hours, what that would

1126
01:59:09,133 --> 01:59:09,133
trigger is a requirement to have a person with alcohol server training. Right. Okay.

1127
01:59:15,233 --> 01:59:15,233
okay. There are nonprofits that do hire a caterer and we will do the permit for them. And in

1128
01:59:22,233 --> 01:59:22,233
that case, the caterer applies for that location. Correct. Okay. Got it. Okay. All right.

1129
01:59:32,133 --> 01:59:32,133
any other questions? Comments. But please. And I'm open to if if council at this meeting

1130
01:59:39,833 --> 01:59:43,733
wants to make substantive changes, I'm happy to to take those and then make those changes so that when we go to the public, we have something different. We'll try to get

1131
01:59:48,400 --> 01:59:48,400
working on those quickly, of course. Or if you just want to let it percolate and think

1132
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:53,600
about it. And then at june 22nd, then you come with proposals. And again, my office is open.

1133
01:59:58,333 --> 01:59:58,333
if any of you have changes you'd like, please see me and we can talk about it. At this

1134
02:00:03,233 --> 02:00:03,233
point, I don't think that we want to make I mean, I'm not hearing substantive,

1135
02:00:07,433 --> 02:00:07,433
substantive changes. I am hearing, you know, that that more bedding. But as far as

1136
02:00:13,566 --> 02:00:13,566
council being able to come in and work out changes, I don't I prefer not to see that all of

1137
02:00:19,900 --> 02:00:19,900
the changes should come june 22nd. There's potential to work with the attorney to come up

1138
02:00:25,800 --> 02:00:25,800
with language to present to council on june 22nd, but this would. The expectation would be

1139
02:00:32,700 --> 02:00:32,700
that we would see this come forward with the public input, and that then we would decide

1140
02:00:39,466 --> 02:00:39,466
whether or not we want to incorporate and what that would incorporate following a process

1141
02:00:45,300 --> 02:00:45,300
that not every piece of public input is going to end up in the ordinance. And not every piece

1142
02:00:49,766 --> 02:00:49,766
of council input is also good in the ordinance, so that otherwise, otherwise we end up

1143
02:00:54,966 --> 02:00:54,966
with all of these. Or did this come from. So I would expect that this would come back to us

1144
02:01:01,066 --> 02:01:01,066
as is with a list of potential input that we could talk about in the june 22nd. There isn't

1145
02:01:09,300 --> 02:01:09,300
anything magical about july 9th. We would have some time to work between june 22nd and july 9th

1146
02:01:15,266 --> 02:01:15,266
to incorporate that. But the expectation would be nothing changes unless council decides

1147
02:01:21,233 --> 02:01:21,233
right here. Now there's something very specific that they'd like to change before it

1148
02:01:26,300 --> 02:01:26,300
goes to the public. So I have something I think that would help us get it through is, I

1149
02:01:32,366 --> 02:01:32,366
think the the server thing should just be out completely. It's already an insurance thing.

1150
02:01:38,900 --> 02:01:38,900
it already is tips. And there's all these trainings that have to happen from an insurance

1151
02:01:46,133 --> 02:01:46,133
standpoint. I think we're creating $120,000 on the back of a napkin, kind of to have a

1152
02:01:51,733 --> 02:01:51,733
full time person to figure out 2000 servers that we have to keep track of. And it just

1153
02:01:56,200 --> 02:01:56,200
makes no sense to me and people, they're at risk losing their licenses if these bartenders

1154
02:02:01,966 --> 02:02:01,966
don't already do this. These bartenders have to not overserve. And so that one,

1155
02:02:07,300 --> 02:02:07,300
just to me seems clear that we we shouldn't be doing it. Okay. Can we have chief johnson

1156
02:02:13,333 --> 02:02:13,333
address that one? Because I think that the server training actually has been working,

1157
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:18,000
particularly in the downtown area. I think the overserving is part of the genesis of this

1158
02:02:24,533 --> 02:02:24,533
entire process. Yeah. So unfortunately, we had to make multiple cases on local

1159
02:02:29,666 --> 02:02:29,666
bartenders for our service. We've got several more cases for criminal cases on our

1160
02:02:35,066 --> 02:02:35,066
service. The idea behind the server training is to prevent that from happening in the

1161
02:02:40,100 --> 02:02:40,100
first place. So when a. When when the city attorney talked about the compelling of of

1162
02:02:49,366 --> 02:02:49,366
video or surveillance video, a lot of that, that video that we're, we're going after is we

1163
02:02:54,466 --> 02:02:54,466
have a dui crash out in the community. Where, where did you come from? They'll say it was a

1164
02:02:59,500 --> 02:02:59,500
particular drinking establishment. We wanted to look at the video for that.

1165
02:03:03,700 --> 02:03:03,700
some servers have been terminated, so it's not like there isn't a huge problem in

1166
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:09,200
idaho falls with servers. Overserving there has been a significant problem in idaho

1167
02:03:13,833 --> 02:03:13,833
falls with servers. Overserving with. When we first brought this ordinance forth, there was

1168
02:03:19,666 --> 02:03:19,666
a lot of conversation about it, and we've seen better compliance with overserving

1169
02:03:24,700 --> 02:03:24,700
have we talked about having that? I think if we decided to take that out, we'd go right

1170
02:03:29,433 --> 02:03:29,433
back to where we were before. And that's the sex assaults, the fights in the street,

1171
02:03:36,100 --> 02:03:36,100
vandalism, the urination in public. This is this is a significant issue. The

1172
02:03:40,833 --> 02:03:40,833
alternative to that is I've called boise bars and I've talked to owners here in town,

1173
02:03:45,100 --> 02:03:45,100
have talked to boise, and they said that this did not have any like meaningful. And I'd like

1174
02:03:51,200 --> 02:03:51,200
to see some studies where this. Because insurance agencies did this, I tried to look up to see

1175
02:03:57,000 --> 02:03:57,000
if overserving training has any impact on, on sex crimes or sexual assaults. It says that

1176
02:04:02,500 --> 02:04:02,500
the evidence is weak at all. And so you might say that anecdotally, but how do we know

1177
02:04:08,200 --> 02:04:08,200
that? And then we're adding a full time position and a regulatory on all of our

1178
02:04:13,233 --> 02:04:13,233
businesses. And we just 75% turn rate on servers in downtown, in these bars and in

1179
02:04:20,833 --> 02:04:20,833
any service activity. So I think we need to find ways that in the ordinance that we could

1180
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:31,966
encourage this and maybe do it at the end of the year when they're up for renewal, they show us their records. But because I'm not against trying to solve the problem, but doing

1181
02:04:38,066 --> 02:04:38,066
it this way with managing 2000 expirations in an office, like that's craziness to me in terms

1182
02:04:47,566 --> 02:04:47,566
of regulatory. And ultimately we'll do whatever council directs us to do. I think as we

1183
02:04:52,833 --> 02:04:52,833
talked to boise, I'll forward you the the data from boise. I think I've heard the council

1184
02:05:00,933 --> 02:05:00,933
president, francis and brandon, they drove by council, had the same question. And, you know,

1185
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:06,200
stats are stats and you can argue stats all day long. Boise pd feels like it's been

1186
02:05:11,666 --> 02:05:11,666
immensely successful and it's contributed to a much better downtown. The the goal of what

1187
02:05:18,066 --> 02:05:18,066
we want is we see huge value to being able to come and idaho falls and get a drink. We see

1188
02:05:24,900 --> 02:05:24,900
huge value in the businesses that do that. We see huge value in contributing to the to the

1189
02:05:31,366 --> 02:05:31,366
culture of idaho falls. And there's, there's a, a great outcome when that that works

1190
02:05:38,200 --> 02:05:38,200
well. If you look at a typical weekend night, idaho falls as compared to a typical weekend

1191
02:05:45,766 --> 02:05:45,766
night. Boise, you see significant differences. We would anticipate boise would be

1192
02:05:53,400 --> 02:05:53,400
much crazier than idaho falls because it's a much bigger city, lots more people. But that's

1193
02:05:58,700 --> 02:05:58,700
not the experience on the street. And so we were looking for a way to make it better.

1194
02:06:07,066 --> 02:06:07,066
I'm not new at this. I've done this in a few states now. Right? And I've done park closings all

1195
02:06:12,066 --> 02:06:12,066
over the place. And it's just inherent in the nature of alcohol. If you get a lot of

1196
02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:16,400
people that are drinking, there's things that happen in connection with that. And so

1197
02:06:22,166 --> 02:06:22,166
bar closing is no shock me. Like it would maybe a general citizen that watched it. I've

1198
02:06:27,000 --> 02:06:27,000
seen enough of them. The one that got me was when there were seven fights within ten minutes,

1199
02:06:33,066 --> 02:06:33,066
about two blocks from here, including a guy that kicked one of my officers in the head. And

1200
02:06:38,000 --> 02:06:38,000
it is a problem in idaho falls. So when we looked at what boise was doing, now boise has the

1201
02:06:43,766 --> 02:06:43,766
answer to every question, because I don't think they do. But but what they were doing

1202
02:06:48,733 --> 02:06:52,666
with the server training in talking to their police department, looking at their data, they had a significant impact. I think you can go to downtown boise. I think you go

1203
02:06:56,800 --> 02:06:56,800
to boise. I think you can get a drink. I think you'd still have a good time. I think the

1204
02:07:01,800 --> 02:07:01,800
economy works really well, but it's mitigating the things that we don't want because people

1205
02:07:06,033 --> 02:07:09,966
aren't going to want to come downtown and get a drink if they're going to get punched and spit on, and people are peeing in the back alley and vomiting in the front walkway,

1206
02:07:15,400 --> 02:07:15,400
and we see case after case after case here in idaho falls, because we were not requiring

1207
02:07:21,100 --> 02:07:21,100
server training. The they were overserving. So what was the feedback? Because when I've

1208
02:07:28,133 --> 02:07:31,866
been talking to the owners, they said that they went to the training that was offered and said it was no different than what they'd been requiring their employees to have all

1209
02:07:35,766 --> 02:07:35,766
along. If that is the case. And what we told them is we believe that a lot of them will already

1210
02:07:43,033 --> 02:07:43,033
be in compliance. So if they've already been doing it, it wouldn't be a huge burden then

1211
02:07:47,366 --> 02:07:47,366
to continue doing if that's the trend already doing. But the burden in keeping track, that's

1212
02:07:52,666 --> 02:07:52,666
what I'm trying to say. And the owners that I talk to are like, yeah, I can, I can just go to

1213
02:07:58,166 --> 02:07:58,166
ammon. Like we are unique in that. In terms of boise, it's we're so small that they'll

1214
02:08:03,266 --> 02:08:03,266
just go across the border and open another. And we've built something really cool downtown.

1215
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:07,600
and you're right, it's been problematic at times as well, but it's also really made a

1216
02:08:12,966 --> 02:08:12,966
meaningful difference for us as a city. What's happened with the kind of connection of bars

1217
02:08:17,666 --> 02:08:21,566
and the things to do downtown? There's there's been some exceptions to that, though. We've we've had to shut down bars because we had massive gunfights. I think the biggest

1218
02:08:26,000 --> 02:08:26,000
gunfight I've seen in an urban setting happened in idaho falls at the old hurricane bar. And

1219
02:08:31,000 --> 02:08:34,900
that was one of the biggest gunfights. I mean, we're talking 30 plus rounds being thrown back and forth. It was a miracle we didn't have all sorts of dead people. And that

1220
02:08:39,566 --> 02:08:39,566
type of behavior has followed other particular bars. So when, when when you're looking at it,

1221
02:08:48,600 --> 02:08:48,600
you know, I will I will compare it to driving laws, you know. In order to drive, you have to

1222
02:09:01,100 --> 02:09:01,100
have a driver's license. It's a highly regulated activity. You can't just go out and drive.

1223
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:08,000
you have your driver's license. There's a test you have to take to get a license. There's

1224
02:09:12,166 --> 02:09:12,166
training you have to go through to to get that license. You know, if we were to say,

1225
02:09:17,333 --> 02:09:17,333
everybody go ahead and and, you know. We hope you don't run a red light, but please don't do

1226
02:09:25,033 --> 02:09:25,033
it. You would you would end up with most people complying. That's not a valid comparison

1227
02:09:30,666 --> 02:09:30,666
because we are we are already have bartenders that can lose not only everything, but they

1228
02:09:36,766 --> 02:09:36,766
can be sued if they sue and get a dui because of their overperforming. I mean, you're

1229
02:09:41,866 --> 02:09:41,866
not that's not what we're saying here. We're not saying to go to nothing and just allow

1230
02:09:46,200 --> 02:09:46,200
anything. But what I'm saying is, if I understand you correctly, I don't know if what

1231
02:09:52,333 --> 02:09:55,933
you're suggesting is keep doing what we've always been doing. I'm suggesting what I'm saying is what we've always been doing was not working. I'm suggesting that we do something like

1232
02:10:00,666 --> 02:10:04,466
you're saying, but with less regulatory effort. Does that make sense? Like the middle ground you're saying. And then the other piece of that is to do it in a way that identifies

1233
02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:14,900
that these people have already taken their profession seriously, and that they want the same things that you want because they're the same things. You're saying is what I hear

1234
02:10:19,300 --> 02:10:19,300
from the bar owners. They need this to work. Their livelihoods need it to work. They and

1235
02:10:23,500 --> 02:10:23,500
they're the ones that came to us and asked for more police and backed you up on that to

1236
02:10:28,366 --> 02:10:28,366
like, I think everyone wants the same outcome. But to add a regulatory burden like this is

1237
02:10:32,433 --> 02:10:32,433
where I think it gets kind of over, over overwhelming. My only statement I'll leave with

1238
02:10:37,733 --> 02:10:37,733
is alcohol is a highly regulated business. It is already highly regulated and

1239
02:10:42,633 --> 02:10:42,633
it's not if if alcohol were to come in today, you'd be banning the sale. But like it just we

1240
02:10:50,633 --> 02:10:50,633
kill a lot more people with alcohol than we do. And so alcohol already is a highly

1241
02:10:55,100 --> 02:10:55,100
regulated business. And I think most bar owners, most establishments do a phenomenal

1242
02:11:00,033 --> 02:11:00,033
job of what they do. But yes, they will have to, you know, track their server training.

1243
02:11:07,000 --> 02:11:07,000
that is correct. But we won't be tracking their server training, like through our

1244
02:11:13,600 --> 02:11:13,600
clerk. No, we it's only the permitting of the caterer. We're not going to be tracking

1245
02:11:19,366 --> 02:11:19,366
thousands of servers because that was, oh, we changed that. Okay. Because that's not I mean,

1246
02:11:24,700 --> 02:11:24,700
that was my when I heard you say that, I was like, no, no, no. And so I was double

1247
02:11:29,766 --> 02:11:29,766
checking that that is maybe that was probably something I missed. But on the slide is

1248
02:11:33,833 --> 02:11:37,766
that these previously, you're right, we did have something in there saying they, they provide to the clerk a list of everybody that's no longer there. All it is is a statement.

1249
02:11:41,966 --> 02:11:41,966
if I remember right, all it is now is a statement that they're in compliance with it. That's

1250
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:46,000
good. I'm sorry, council member, when you had said that then I was trying to find it. I was

1251
02:11:50,833 --> 02:11:50,833
like, I know that we had that. So I apologize for not removed. So the only permit that you're

1252
02:11:55,866 --> 02:11:55,866
tracking is the catering permit, the alcohol license. Those are not the the clerk is not going

1253
02:12:01,866 --> 02:12:01,866
to have to track individual server compliance. Most. I want to be careful of saying every

1254
02:12:10,033 --> 02:12:10,033
album because there's. But most national chains are already in compliance with it because they

1255
02:12:15,266 --> 02:12:15,266
have. These are very common regulations all over. If anyone has enough assets, they're

1256
02:12:19,900 --> 02:12:19,900
going to be on top of it because they're going to get sued and they're going to. Most

1257
02:12:24,600 --> 02:12:27,766
of our local establishments. I think what you're hearing is they've already providing similar training, and again, they're already being compliant. What I'm saying is there's

1258
02:12:36,466 --> 02:12:36,466
enough noncompliance that that not having it be required is a problem with the environment

1259
02:12:42,900 --> 02:12:42,900
downtown and in other places for everyone to have a nice business model, have lots of

1260
02:12:47,666 --> 02:12:47,666
people want to come downtown and come and get a drink. You don't want that other stuff

1261
02:12:51,766 --> 02:12:51,766
happening. It will help prevent that. Councilmember radford, I hope that that was that

1262
02:12:56,966 --> 02:13:00,566
regulatory piece that you were thinking like, we're not going to be tracking all of the servers and everyone I've talked to has no problem require have the training

1263
02:13:04,366 --> 02:13:04,366
because they already feel like they're tracking it. I just didn't want to have. We don't.

1264
02:13:08,433 --> 02:13:08,433
yeah. Okay. Sorry for that, miss. That was a conversation that added no. Well, you know,

1265
02:13:15,933 --> 02:13:15,933
it's like those were some of those. It's been a long ordinance. It's been like, I'll

1266
02:13:20,700 --> 02:13:20,700
forward you the, the stats from boise that were generated. Actually, if you could just as

1267
02:13:26,933 --> 02:13:26,933
you mentioned these, would you mind sharing it with the clerk? Because we've mentioned it kind

1268
02:13:31,066 --> 02:13:31,066
of in this public setting. And so I think it would be good to include that as part of the

1269
02:13:36,066 --> 02:13:36,066
record of the of the meeting, if you're okay with that, even though. Yeah, that would be

1270
02:13:40,200 --> 02:13:40,200
helpful. Okay. Well, any further questions or comments? Otherwise we will see this in

1271
02:13:48,766 --> 02:13:48,766
its current version, june 22nd, with potential changes that either council members would

1272
02:13:54,666 --> 02:13:54,666
like to see or the public as we take this forward. All right. Thank you for everyone who is

1273
02:14:02,400 --> 02:14:02,400
really come together to try and. Get something that can help help the officers, help the

1274
02:14:11,433 --> 02:14:11,433
fire, help the residents, really have an enjoyable time down both downtown and in the

1275
02:14:19,800 --> 02:14:19,800
local establishment. We do have I want to push through, but I think we need to take maybe

1276
02:14:27,566 --> 02:14:27,566
just a few minute break. Then we're going to have a quick update on the erp status, a

1277
02:14:32,666 --> 02:14:36,633
couple of quick minutes on the citywide update and announcements. So we'll just take a five minute break, and we'll be back at oh, there we go now thank you for being mindful

1278
02:14:50,222 --> 02:14:50,222
of the time. We are back in session and we have a quorum. And we turn the time over to

1279
02:14:56,255 --> 02:14:56,255
our chief of staff and finance to just give us an update on the erp project. Yes. Thanks

1280
02:15:04,588 --> 02:15:04,588
for giving us some time today. I am here as a representative of the erp executive committee,

1281
02:15:12,355 --> 02:15:12,355
which includes pam, director alexander, director. Frederickson. Director jones.

1282
02:15:21,088 --> 02:15:21,088
and we've been working with the erp project team just through through the implementation. We

1283
02:15:26,122 --> 02:15:26,122
meet with the team about once a month to kind of work through issues. And believe it or not,

1284
02:15:31,855 --> 02:15:31,855
after more than a year and a half of a lot of hard work and planning, we are on the

1285
02:15:37,555 --> 02:15:37,555
countdown to going live with our new erp system workday. So we wanted to take just a few

1286
02:15:43,322 --> 02:15:43,322
minutes today to just provide kind of an overview of what employees can expect in the

1287
02:15:49,755 --> 02:15:49,755
next few weeks, and also wanted to make sure you were aware of sort of how this was going to

1288
02:15:54,622 --> 02:15:54,622
progress over the next two weeks. So mark hagedorn, our treasurer, is also the project

1289
02:16:01,288 --> 02:16:01,288
lead for our erp team. So I'm going to have him take just a minute or two to kind of

1290
02:16:06,755 --> 02:16:06,755
provide the overview, and then we'll kind of work through these these quick slides. All

1291
02:16:11,822 --> 02:16:11,822
right. So just give you an update of where we've been over the last 18 months. The city's

1292
02:16:18,922 --> 02:16:18,922
elected to go with upgrading its financial and hr system. I say upgrade hr, but really this

1293
02:16:26,855 --> 02:16:26,855
is our new first time integrated hr system with finance, where hr had multiple

1294
02:16:33,722 --> 02:16:33,722
different softwares to accomplish their tasks. And so this upgrade is to upgrade the

1295
02:16:40,988 --> 02:16:40,988
legacy system, which is over 26 years old, and meeting it was end of life. And, and so we

1296
02:16:52,488 --> 02:16:52,488
have been going through all the decisions daily to try and get this effective and operational

1297
02:16:58,988 --> 02:16:58,988
coming here in two weeks from today on the hr side. And then the financial side will go live

1298
02:17:05,088 --> 02:17:05,088
and 1st of july. So our first slide, it kind of gives us that go live countdown, the cut over

1299
02:17:13,755 --> 02:17:13,755
the cut over dates or sort of the cut over planning will begin today in our slides are

1300
02:17:21,488 --> 02:17:21,488
not. But so our cut over planning starts today. And that's going to involve some

1301
02:17:31,022 --> 02:17:31,022
blackout dates. And I did provide another handout that sort of shows those cut over,

1302
02:17:37,822 --> 02:17:37,822
you know, during certain periods. We want to try and limit the hiring and promotions

1303
02:17:43,155 --> 02:17:43,155
just because we're starting to update and finalize the information in the new system.

1304
02:17:48,988 --> 02:17:48,988
we've also got some blackout dates for purchasing and sort of step by step directions on

1305
02:17:56,555 --> 02:17:56,555
that. We do, we do have sort of other mechanisms. If there is an emergency and a department

1306
02:18:02,622 --> 02:18:02,622
needs to, to purchase something, we do have some some kind of workarounds, but we've been

1307
02:18:08,022 --> 02:18:08,022
sharing these with staff for about a month or so now just to try and help them to plan. And

1308
02:18:13,788 --> 02:18:13,788
then as mark said on june 14th, the hr side of the system will go live. And then on july 1st,

1309
02:18:21,788 --> 02:18:21,788
the finance part of the system will go live. So our next slide gives you just kind of a quick

1310
02:18:26,922 --> 02:18:26,922
view of what's changing for employees. And mark's going to walk through that one for you.

1311
02:18:32,488 --> 02:18:32,488
all right. So. There's a lot changing. And so information is more readily available. You'll

1312
02:18:44,255 --> 02:18:44,255
be able to see their job, the job position, the org charts embedded in in the financial

1313
02:18:48,688 --> 02:18:48,688
system. You'll have we'll have pictures there. So you can see employees. Employees will be

1314
02:18:54,522 --> 02:18:54,522
able to update and change all their elections within the system. There's no longer going

1315
02:18:59,455 --> 02:18:59,455
to be paper forms. It's all digital, all the the time off requests, everything's all in

1316
02:19:05,355 --> 02:19:05,355
one system. We are consolidating systems into one. And so a lot of these legacy

1317
02:19:09,988 --> 02:19:09,988
systems will be going away. There's going to be a task basket and an inbox for people

1318
02:19:17,255 --> 02:19:17,255
to complete tasks and know what their workload is for that day. And everything's all searchable

1319
02:19:24,022 --> 02:19:24,022
within the system. And you can jump from one area to another without having to exit and come

1320
02:19:28,188 --> 02:19:28,188
back in. So it is a highly functional, integrated system. And for employees, a lot of

1321
02:19:35,888 --> 02:19:35,888
this information has not been readily available, but they are now they will be able to go in

1322
02:19:41,022 --> 02:19:41,022
and make some of their own changes, rather than having to, to work through some of that

1323
02:19:45,155 --> 02:19:45,155
with hr. So for managers, they will see all of those same changes that employees will see.

1324
02:19:51,788 --> 02:19:51,788
but then in addition, there's some other things that they'll be able to to do. And again,

1325
02:19:56,588 --> 02:19:56,588
mark can kind of run through those quickly. Yeah. So for managers, they'll be able to do

1326
02:20:01,255 --> 02:20:01,255
approvals within the system. They'll be able to do it from their phone in the field. It's

1327
02:20:06,588 --> 02:20:06,588
cloud based. So you don't have to be you don't have to have a vpn to get into it. It's all

1328
02:20:11,455 --> 02:20:15,355
right there. All we have to have is the two factor authentication. Be able to validate who they are. And so with the credentials. And that just makes it easy for the

1329
02:20:21,588 --> 02:20:21,588
manager to do approvals in the field as well as at their desk, as well as see all the

1330
02:20:27,688 --> 02:20:27,688
information all in one place, instead of having to go to different systems. Mark has

1331
02:20:33,255 --> 02:20:33,255
access to this information can be secure. I mean, so each person it's it's the security

1332
02:20:41,655 --> 02:20:41,655
is role based. And so it's not an open system. You have to be assigned roles. And those those

1333
02:20:48,322 --> 02:20:48,322
roles are assigned to your credentials. And so you have to come in and you have to, to

1334
02:20:53,488 --> 02:20:53,488
factor in to get to the system. So it's not just a simple login. You are having to validate your

1335
02:20:59,955 --> 02:20:59,955
who you are. We just don't want the information getting in the wrong hands. That's great. And

1336
02:21:04,522 --> 02:21:04,522
so we can parse out who can see what and so the personal information or pii is

1337
02:21:13,822 --> 02:21:13,822
restricted to only a handful of people. So as mark said, this is really big changes for the

1338
02:21:26,888 --> 02:21:26,888
city as a whole, but also for all of our employees. And it's going to affect everybody from

1339
02:21:32,188 --> 02:21:32,188
the seasonal workers who umpire softball games to the, you know, the mayor and how she processes

1340
02:21:41,255 --> 02:21:41,255
things. So we are kicking off training next week with sort of a basic employee and basic

1341
02:21:48,022 --> 02:21:48,022
manager training. Those sessions will be online for employees and then in person

1342
02:21:54,122 --> 02:21:54,122
and manage for the managers. We've got 5 or 6 sessions planned for managers that will

1343
02:21:58,822 --> 02:21:58,822
include some hands on demonstrations, and then with employees that will be online.

1344
02:22:04,655 --> 02:22:04,655
but we're also setting up sort of some q&a sessions with departments to answer some

1345
02:22:12,555 --> 02:22:12,555
questions. The week of june 15th, we will start the finance parts of the training. So we

1346
02:22:19,088 --> 02:22:19,088
give employees who are involved in those those responsibilities. They'll have an overview,

1347
02:22:25,188 --> 02:22:25,188
finance, foundations, and then also some purchasing training. And then the week of june 22nd,

1348
02:22:30,888 --> 02:22:30,888
there's some additional finance training depending on roles that's more specialized. And

1349
02:22:36,655 --> 02:22:36,655
then we do have we will have ongoing support. We're creating an online resource center that

1350
02:22:42,188 --> 02:22:42,188
will include some videos that will cover these, these training sessions, as well as

1351
02:22:46,788 --> 02:22:46,788
some other information that will be available in our resource center. And then we

1352
02:22:51,422 --> 02:22:51,422
are creating some different in-person support systems to help employees as we work

1353
02:22:57,155 --> 02:22:57,155
through this transition. One of the big changes for employees is that everybody needs to have

1354
02:23:02,255 --> 02:23:02,255
an email address. Believe it or not, we have a few hundred employees, mostly seasonals in

1355
02:23:08,688 --> 02:23:08,688
departments like parks and rec that do not have not had emails. For the last 2 to 3 weeks.

1356
02:23:13,488 --> 02:23:13,488
we've been working with those departments to set up emails for all of those employees

1357
02:23:19,722 --> 02:23:19,722
because again, you do need an email to access the the system to enter your time to do any of

1358
02:23:25,588 --> 02:23:25,588
those kinds of things. Mark anything you want to add on the training piece? It's a lot of

1359
02:23:31,422 --> 02:23:31,422
training in the month of june, and we recognize that employees aren't going to be able to

1360
02:23:38,588 --> 02:23:38,588
learn their job 100% day one, that they'll be trained beyond the month of june to make sure

1361
02:23:44,955 --> 02:23:44,955
that people understand and can do their required job functions. And then again, just to

1362
02:23:53,422 --> 02:23:53,422
reiterate, throughout this process, we do have a number of different ways that we'll be

1363
02:23:58,388 --> 02:23:58,388
offering our employees support. And then even after we go live, we are starting to work with

1364
02:24:05,988 --> 02:24:05,988
strata who's been helping us with the implementation on sort of some ongoing support and

1365
02:24:12,455 --> 02:24:12,455
next, next steps. Because as mark said, the beginning is just sort of figuring out how

1366
02:24:16,655 --> 02:24:16,655
to get into the system. And then it's a matter of sort of making sure that we can utilize

1367
02:24:21,555 --> 02:24:21,555
and leverage some of the advanced features and in the system. And so we're trying to

1368
02:24:28,188 --> 02:24:28,188
make sure we've got support available in lots of different ways. We also have a group of

1369
02:24:36,122 --> 02:24:36,122
employees, representatives from all of our departments in a team called change champions.

1370
02:24:42,288 --> 02:24:42,288
they have been working with us for several months now, getting kind of a sneak peek in the

1371
02:24:47,255 --> 02:24:47,255
system, and then also sharing information within their departments. A lot of this is

1372
02:24:53,022 --> 02:24:53,022
going to be about change management, helping people understand how to get into this

1373
02:24:58,455 --> 02:24:58,455
system and feel comfortable with the system. That team has been fantastic and sort of

1374
02:25:04,188 --> 02:25:04,188
helping us share information. And then we've also, over the last two weeks or so, been

1375
02:25:10,422 --> 02:25:10,422
sharing lots of information with email, and we'll continue to do that. We recognize that

1376
02:25:15,055 --> 02:25:15,055
employees get information in lots of different ways. So we've also done some trainings

1377
02:25:19,188 --> 02:25:19,188
with admin assistants to make sure that they have a good sense of the system, especially

1378
02:25:24,855 --> 02:25:24,855
time keeping. That's going to be critical for for everyone. So we are, as I said, trying to

1379
02:25:30,922 --> 02:25:30,922
kind of anticipate needs and respond to, to those needs as they as they arise. So there

1380
02:25:38,488 --> 02:25:38,488
are certainly going to be tweaks to this as we go along as, as employees get into the

1381
02:25:44,522 --> 02:25:44,522
into the system. And then I do want to just give a huge shout out to our, our project team

1382
02:25:51,822 --> 02:25:51,822
project leadership, as well as the dozens of employees from different departments that have

1383
02:25:58,655 --> 02:25:58,655
been workstream leads or subject matter leads. This project has been incredibly

1384
02:26:04,522 --> 02:26:04,522
intense, especially the last month or two as they've been testing data as it's moved over.

1385
02:26:10,155 --> 02:26:10,155
and then there's 2 or 3 different kinds of testing that has to be done. And it's been

1386
02:26:16,688 --> 02:26:16,688
very challenging at times to do their work of the day, plus the project responsibilities. And

1387
02:26:21,688 --> 02:26:21,688
they've just done a wonderful job. But there is a big push before that. In the next couple

1388
02:26:27,655 --> 02:26:27,655
of weeks before we go, go live. Thanks, margaret. I just wanted to add that this has been a

1389
02:26:32,588 --> 02:26:32,588
truly a great experience for the city comes together collectively to work on

1390
02:26:37,155 --> 02:26:37,155
something as a complete unit, and it's been good to see. I was I had the opportunity

1391
02:26:44,388 --> 02:26:44,388
council members to be in just with our consultant and they. I think that this is what they

1392
02:26:50,955 --> 02:26:50,955
said. You both can correct me, but I think they said this is as well as any other

1393
02:26:56,522 --> 02:26:56,522
implementation to this point that they've seen and that they would use this even as a model,

1394
02:27:01,555 --> 02:27:01,555
you know, moving forward of how we, you know, had laid out the step by step process and we met

1395
02:27:08,822 --> 02:27:08,822
target goals. And then we had the next step of goals. And, and they were incredibly. Their

1396
02:27:18,555 --> 02:27:18,555
expression of awe was a little like, oh, wow. Yeah, this would this, they really did lay it

1397
02:27:24,688 --> 02:27:24,688
out. Well, that what our team has done. And so it is good luck. We know there's going to

1398
02:27:30,722 --> 02:27:30,722
be bumps in the road. We know that there's going to be bumps in the road, even though we've

1399
02:27:35,655 --> 02:27:35,655
laid it out as well as they've ever seen it laid out. We know there will be some bumps, so we

1400
02:27:40,722 --> 02:27:40,722
we're prepared for that. Absolutely. Thank you. Mark, can we go back a slide? What's

1401
02:27:48,055 --> 02:27:48,055
case. Case is a ticketing system within it that tracks when you have an issue the log

1402
02:27:53,888 --> 02:27:53,888
in the system, it'll put deadlines on it and response times so that they get

1403
02:27:58,822 --> 02:27:58,822
responded to because not everything can be resolved on the phone call at that moment.

1404
02:28:03,255 --> 02:28:03,255
okay. But we are working with it to kind of differentiate between regular it issues and

1405
02:28:09,788 --> 02:28:09,788
then work day it issues. I mean, it's not an acronym. It's just they just say case because it's

1406
02:28:14,488 --> 02:28:14,488
like a case. It's like it's a name, it's a name brand. So the case is the name of the system.

1407
02:28:20,222 --> 02:28:20,222
okay. Like centurylink's down the line workday. Okay. And I actually called that out too,

1408
02:28:27,055 --> 02:28:30,822
because I know it's the it ticketing system. I've never really looked at the actual name, but the actual name is okay. Mark pointed out to me. Okay, great. Yes, of course I

1409
02:28:35,955 --> 02:28:35,955
know. My point is the I think I know the utilities billing, peace building, work management.

1410
02:28:45,522 --> 02:28:45,522
once we complete this system, we are then moving on to look at our billing system, and

1411
02:28:52,755 --> 02:28:52,755
there'll be a separate rfp process that will kick off probably this summer. But it's

1412
02:28:58,122 --> 02:28:58,122
a completely different part, a totally different project. But there are this fry points fry

1413
02:29:05,388 --> 02:29:05,388
mobile piece has to do with aspects of. Mark can speak to that better than I. It's

1414
02:29:10,755 --> 02:29:10,755
basically a work management system where it assigns tasks to like building maintenance or

1415
02:29:16,555 --> 02:29:16,555
power or water about what tasks they need to complete for that day out in the field. So it

1416
02:29:22,355 --> 02:29:22,355
pulls inventory appraisal all together and it can sign into their time. They are

1417
02:29:29,488 --> 02:29:29,488
potentially one of them that they would respond to the rfp. Yeah, but but we have not moved

1418
02:29:34,922 --> 02:29:34,922
forward with that one as a. Yeah. So maybe that is part of that. Okay. Thank you. Any

1419
02:29:41,588 --> 02:29:41,588
other questions? Okay. I know council member damon, as also have a commitment with public

1420
02:29:51,388 --> 02:29:51,388
works, but I do want to address one thing before she takes off, which is as. I just want to

1421
02:29:59,955 --> 02:29:59,955
make sure that as we continue to move forward, that we continue operating under the

1422
02:30:04,755 --> 02:30:04,755
same understanding. I would like to just take a quick minute to discuss what gets put

1423
02:30:10,155 --> 02:30:10,155
on consent so that there is some consistency. And the council agreement. We've had

1424
02:30:16,688 --> 02:30:16,688
this conversation before. So kind of here is the proposal. Is that any item that goes on

1425
02:30:26,655 --> 02:30:26,655
consent would be something that is routine or is a replacement, regardless of the dollar amount.

1426
02:30:34,022 --> 02:30:34,022
it could be a million and a half dollars. But if it's, you know, polls for idaho falls

1427
02:30:39,688 --> 02:30:39,688
power, it would be on consent. The dollar amount is read into the record as part of the

1428
02:30:47,922 --> 02:30:47,922
reading of the record, so that, you know, purchase of idaho falls power poles, 1 million

1429
02:30:52,688 --> 02:30:52,688
whatever to this and read them to the contractors as well. If council wants clarification

1430
02:31:02,022 --> 02:31:02,022
from a director, wants to ask questions, wants more information than what is on

1431
02:31:07,055 --> 02:31:07,055
consent, we will just call up the director. You don't have to take it off of consent. It's

1432
02:31:11,622 --> 02:31:11,622
simply I'd like to have this director come and talk about consent. The reason you would

1433
02:31:18,255 --> 02:31:18,255
pull it off, consent if you intend to table it or vote no. That way. That way it's off of

1434
02:31:24,922 --> 02:31:24,922
the consent agenda. And then there can be discussion back and forth. But other than that,

1435
02:31:31,422 --> 02:31:31,422
that would be so you don't have to bomb the whole consent agenda. You don't know on this

1436
02:31:35,722 --> 02:31:35,722
one thing, correct. On this one thing. You just it doesn't take a first and a second. Any

1437
02:31:40,588 --> 02:31:40,588
council member can pull anything off. But this would be that regardless of dollar

1438
02:31:46,222 --> 02:31:46,222
amount, it's really about whether it is routine or replacement. We had something

1439
02:31:51,222 --> 02:31:51,222
that if it's if it's not routine, even if there's a lot of information in the packet

1440
02:31:57,022 --> 02:31:57,022
about it, it wouldn't be on consent. But routine replacement of things read into

1441
02:32:03,522 --> 02:32:03,522
the record conversation around it can still happen. You wouldn't pull it off unless you

1442
02:32:10,155 --> 02:32:10,155
planned on tabling it or voting no. I think that's a key piece, because I'm not used to asking

1443
02:32:15,122 --> 02:32:15,122
a director on consent. Yes, that's for me, new. So good. So then you can ask any any you've

1444
02:32:21,522 --> 02:32:21,522
done information and sort of set a precedent which helped this could, you know, we could

1445
02:32:27,388 --> 02:32:27,388
include this in our. Agenda just to make sure that everybody is kind of operating

1446
02:32:34,155 --> 02:32:37,955
from that same understanding. Council member larsen, did you have something you wanted to add to that? Thank you. I'm not sure. What are we missing? What is your. I just scheduled

1447
02:32:43,488 --> 02:32:43,488
something privately at home works. Not based on the agenda. We would have been done already.

1448
02:32:50,088 --> 02:32:50,088
I don't want to hold the staff infirmaries any longer, though. I have to make sense. Okay, I

1449
02:32:55,388 --> 02:32:55,388
do have a question. When you say, for example, replacement in what is in, what is read in

1450
02:33:01,922 --> 02:33:01,922
or what is in consent, does it say that this is replacement or it's in the existing budget or

1451
02:33:07,988 --> 02:33:07,988
something that just shows that basically it's already been approved? Yeah. And again, for

1452
02:33:14,288 --> 02:33:14,288
the record, I'm thinking about. Yeah, usually it says this is to replace a unit. So and so

1453
02:33:19,555 --> 02:33:19,555
that's it reached into blood. Yes. As part of that memo. And that's something else that we

1454
02:33:23,655 --> 02:33:23,655
will make, you know, clear as we talk through the directors that, okay, when you're putting

1455
02:33:28,888 --> 02:33:28,888
this on consent, make sure that you include that this is the routine purchase, the

1456
02:33:34,055 --> 02:33:34,055
replacement purchase, so that those are, are the clarifying language. Yeah. Already, you

1457
02:33:39,222 --> 02:33:39,222
know, it's in wherever so that it isn't just want to make sure that, you know, it works both

1458
02:33:46,122 --> 02:33:46,122
ways. We can train the directors, they can train us and we can move that, move that

1459
02:33:51,855 --> 02:33:51,855
through that we just have clarity on what what this will look like. I guess you would

1460
02:33:55,988 --> 02:33:55,988
have to say we wouldn't necessarily have to vote no. We could think, maybe I'm going to

1461
02:34:00,055 --> 02:34:00,055
vote no, but after a discussion. Correct, correct. If you if you think that there is a if it is

1462
02:34:05,322 --> 02:34:05,322
just not a clear. Yes, I will plan on voting yes on consent. No. And if you have a director

1463
02:34:11,522 --> 02:34:11,522
come up and you hear the information at that point, you can say, I want to pull this

1464
02:34:16,322 --> 02:34:16,322
off of consent. I want to have a broader discussion with council that would be

1465
02:34:20,988 --> 02:34:20,988
completely appropriate as well. Can I ask who's going to aic next week? I am going three of

1466
02:34:27,955 --> 02:34:27,955
us. Okay, okay. Someone's got to stay here. Sorry. One more. Sorry. You're going okay, okay,

1467
02:34:38,322 --> 02:34:38,322
okay. Council member. Council. Evening. Council member. Beekman. You are, you are.

1468
02:34:44,188 --> 02:34:44,188
thank you. Enjoy. Public works time and council member francis, do you have anything to bring

1469
02:34:50,588 --> 02:34:50,588
up? I just brought it up. Okay. I had a great experience with funland and their new food, and

1470
02:34:56,988 --> 02:34:56,988
it's way too close to my house. Oh, you can always just walk over weirdly. You also get an

1471
02:35:03,122 --> 02:35:03,122
employee discount. So if you go, yeah, they have an employee discount of 20%. Oh yeah.

1472
02:35:10,322 --> 02:35:10,322
that's good. I'm sorry I missed it. Council member friedman, do you have anything today for us?

1473
02:35:16,155 --> 02:35:16,155
well, that was actually on my list of funland being open in the log hut being open. I

1474
02:35:21,888 --> 02:35:21,888
wanted to let you know the islands is getting close to opening the new tortoise

1475
02:35:27,255 --> 02:35:27,255
exhibit. The well, the island exhibit. It's an old county building. Yeah, they're working

1476
02:35:33,755 --> 02:35:33,755
on getting it open. We had an interesting conversation today about the conversion of surface

1477
02:35:39,255 --> 02:35:39,255
water and parks. And, you know, we're converting freeman park right now. Some issues have

1478
02:35:44,988 --> 02:35:44,988
come up that you may have noticed that sunnyside park was kind of burned up, and so was

1479
02:35:52,422 --> 02:35:52,422
community in a couple places. And we got some complaints about it. And part of it is due

1480
02:35:56,555 --> 02:35:56,555
to the number of heads and issues we're having with mainlines breaking and stuff,

1481
02:36:01,088 --> 02:36:01,088
and it seems like it's related to using the water out of the canal rather than using the

1482
02:36:06,955 --> 02:36:06,955
water because it's not as clean, right? So it has more stuff in it that's injuring our our

1483
02:36:13,722 --> 02:36:13,722
sprinkler heads and so forth and plugging them up. So. Parks and recs is looking and they're

1484
02:36:19,822 --> 02:36:19,822
working on it. They're talking about, you know, fixes for it as far as better filtering

1485
02:36:24,188 --> 02:36:24,188
systems and stuff like that. But that's going to come with a cost. But anyway, just so you

1486
02:36:28,622 --> 02:36:28,622
know that they're looking into it. And if you get a complaint from somebody, you know that,

1487
02:36:33,188 --> 02:36:37,088
you know, they're, they're aware of the issue, one of the other issues they're having with the surface water thing is like a community park, particularly as they're limited

1488
02:36:42,555 --> 02:36:42,555
by the acreage on how much water they can draw. At certain times of the day, right. So

1489
02:36:49,588 --> 02:36:53,022
they have to water. We're getting complaints about because they're watering during the day, right? They're not just they can't because they can't get the whole park

1490
02:36:56,555 --> 02:36:56,555
watered in the, with the, with the gallons that they can draw. So they have to water pretty

1491
02:37:02,588 --> 02:37:02,588
much 24 hours a day, right? Or at least 20 hours a day. So, you know, there's an

1492
02:37:09,855 --> 02:37:13,455
explanation for the for the public on that too, why the sprinklers are running during the day, even though it's not as efficient, because we all know that it evaporates more if

1493
02:37:18,188 --> 02:37:18,188
you're watering in the heat of the day. But they have no choice. I guess that's all I

1494
02:37:26,255 --> 02:37:26,255
had. Yeah, that's all I had. Council, I would be willing to say as well that this is a city

1495
02:37:34,722 --> 02:37:34,722
wide project. It's not just a parks project, it's conservation of water. And so

1496
02:37:38,822 --> 02:37:38,822
it is part of our water department. So I think if if, you know, we've transitioned to

1497
02:37:44,155 --> 02:37:44,155
the new surface water, it's not just about parks, it's about our water department. There is

1498
02:37:50,322 --> 02:37:50,322
also opportunity for our water department to help with the solutions and have, you know, a

1499
02:37:55,288 --> 02:37:55,288
certain dollar amount set aside for sprinkler head replacement as well. They're not it's not

1500
02:37:59,722 --> 02:37:59,722
just about wells. They replaced 100 heads. Yeah. I mean, this is a community park quickly

1501
02:38:05,422 --> 02:38:05,422
into that budget. And this is about water generally. Yeah. As opposed to green grass. So I do

1502
02:38:12,188 --> 02:38:12,188
think that this is once again, not to think about departments in silos, but to think about

1503
02:38:18,722 --> 02:38:18,722
holistically what we do as a city and why we're doing water conversion. So, and it's not

1504
02:38:25,055 --> 02:38:25,055
just about parks. So, so back to just the water condition situation this year. So there's

1505
02:38:30,922 --> 02:38:30,922
still plans to put out. Some. Yeah, they're training information or whatever as far

1506
02:38:36,788 --> 02:38:36,788
as how to conserve aquatic conserve. Yes we are. There is still some of that. And, and

1507
02:38:42,822 --> 02:38:42,822
being able to really identify how the city is, is working and being a leader, you know,

1508
02:38:49,755 --> 02:38:49,755
leading out in that as opposed to wagging our finger at other people and then being very

1509
02:38:55,522 --> 02:38:55,522
complicit. But we will continue to work on that and get that out any, anything that needs to

1510
02:39:01,755 --> 02:39:01,755
be done with the jefferson city. You just reminded me of that after that comment about our

1511
02:39:08,022 --> 02:39:08,022
sidewalk. And we are still they are still moving forward, reaching out to homeowners to,

1512
02:39:13,455 --> 02:39:13,455
to talk individually with homeowners and then moving forward, a much broader

1513
02:39:19,622 --> 02:39:19,622
conversation about that process and how we will address it in the future. Well, well into the

1514
02:39:28,655 --> 02:39:28,655
future before we show up at our doorstep and send a threatening letter and send a threatening

1515
02:39:34,255 --> 02:39:34,255
letter. Yeah, all of that will be a bit of a balance, isn't it? Right. Because it's not like we

1516
02:39:39,388 --> 02:39:39,388
don't want code enforcement to go and fix some of the places that need fixed. But that was a

1517
02:39:44,255 --> 02:39:44,255
really weird blanket tennis situation that was different. Yeah. There, there will be

1518
02:39:49,022 --> 02:39:49,022
processes that that make sense for us to use. Like if this is the process we use in power,

1519
02:39:55,588 --> 02:39:55,588
this would be the process we would use for streets and water and sanitation. So yes, all of

1520
02:40:02,488 --> 02:40:02,488
that can come under one big. So what, what happens to the folks that already got the letter?

1521
02:40:07,455 --> 02:40:07,455
the letters? Ryan cardin has reached out. He's reaching out to every person from streets or

1522
02:40:12,088 --> 02:40:12,088
someone from streets is reaching out to have contact and connection with all of them.

1523
02:40:16,788 --> 02:40:16,788
and, and look at it moving forward. Okay, don't bring that back. We'll discuss this, but

1524
02:40:22,855 --> 02:40:22,855
next month. Okay. Is there anything else? Council. I'll follow up with that and give

1525
02:40:29,022 --> 02:40:29,022
you specific information on what is being communicated back to street the streets

1526
02:40:34,488 --> 02:40:34,488
department. I do have one more thing. There is a new housing coalition led by ali rabi. She

1527
02:40:38,822 --> 02:40:38,822
was a former state senator, and they did an analysis of statewide of all zoning codes.

1528
02:40:45,355 --> 02:40:45,355
and then they had specific cities. And I just got that today. So I'll be I'll send

1529
02:40:50,688 --> 02:40:50,688
that to you and to all of us. Okay. It was an interesting approach, and it has a lot of

1530
02:40:55,688 --> 02:40:59,222
information about what's required about the new law, two laws that were passed around adus and the density requirements. And so I think that's interesting to all of us.

1531
02:41:05,288 --> 02:41:05,288
one of them reminded me of what we talked about in adu was there. Now we can't restrict

1532
02:41:10,755 --> 02:41:10,755
them for less than 1000. Right. And we can't do setbacks, which was a big that was interesting.

1533
02:41:16,588 --> 02:41:16,588
so we don't have to require setbacks. Well, you can't require them for eight years.

1534
02:41:21,355 --> 02:41:21,355
you can't do. Anyway. There's those two laws were a lot more. There's a lot more in them. And

1535
02:41:28,322 --> 02:41:28,322
that we do have a year to comply with the comprehensive plan in the city zoning. Did we

1536
02:41:34,488 --> 02:41:34,488
reduce the the. Yeah. Setbacks. It's five feet instead of 15 or whatever when we did 20 to 15,

1537
02:41:41,888 --> 02:41:41,888
probably, but it's like five. It's all in a traditional neighborhood. We did have a

1538
02:41:48,422 --> 02:41:50,855
setback. We do have a traditional neighborhood number that's different than the rest of the city as well, which is why we're seeing around jefferson. There's new houses

1539
02:41:55,655 --> 02:41:55,655
going in there and so do lots and things. And so but there's also suggestions in this about

1540
02:42:00,888 --> 02:42:00,888
how to help build density without building apartments. And we did say that we couldn't

1541
02:42:06,588 --> 02:42:06,588
have adus above 800, but that cap has been lifted from the state starting. So yeah, but

1542
02:42:15,188 --> 02:42:15,188
the big thing that's across the state is looking at how to do density with parking

1543
02:42:20,622 --> 02:42:20,622
restrictions and getting not getting rid of parking minimums, but making them right so that

1544
02:42:26,355 --> 02:42:26,355
so that you can build a, you know, a small house somewhere and not have it be because I

1545
02:42:32,155 --> 02:42:32,155
can't tell you how many contractors have come to me and said I would do that lot like

1546
02:42:36,788 --> 02:42:36,788
the one that we were trying to sell by serenity hall. I think that one was impacted by

1547
02:42:41,088 --> 02:42:41,088
parking. No one is very interested because parking restrictions. So council member

1548
02:42:46,488 --> 02:42:46,488
radford, that does remind me that we talked about it being a moving our council priority

1549
02:42:52,955 --> 02:42:52,955
from being on how affordable housing to maybe specific things within our code that we

1550
02:43:00,122 --> 02:43:00,122
would like to look at, and forming a group of expert, not experts, but content experts.

1551
02:43:10,322 --> 02:43:10,322
and the first one that we have directed, director director sander to do is parking,

1552
02:43:16,422 --> 02:43:16,422
parking minimums and landscape parking. So that is something that is already underway. Every

1553
02:43:22,188 --> 02:43:22,188
time I do a good look at our code. And, you know, every time I drive around to sporting

1554
02:43:28,622 --> 02:43:28,622
goods at the grand teton mall and that it's a huge part, there is there's 300 parking

1555
02:43:34,055 --> 02:43:34,055
spots out there, not a car parked in it. Yeah. It's like this big advisory heat scene,

1556
02:43:40,922 --> 02:43:40,922
right? No, I'm not making any changes according to what? We have some people who live right

1557
02:43:48,355 --> 02:43:48,355
next door. Absolutely. Or a business owner, one of them who want who is willing to do this

1558
02:43:53,055 --> 02:43:53,055
was darren peterson from d and l cleaners, right? I mean, he has a business, multiple

1559
02:44:00,355 --> 02:44:00,355
locations. And so they they would be specific engineers, architects who are working on

1560
02:44:08,588 --> 02:44:08,588
this kind of. But when they move to another issue, it would be a different. It would be a

1561
02:44:14,422 --> 02:44:14,422
different set of people. Yes, but this would be getting into our code and making sure that

1562
02:44:18,688 --> 02:44:18,688
that the subdivision code is what we want. So yeah. And one other thing, any updates on our.

1563
02:44:25,888 --> 02:44:25,888
farmer's market? You should know more this week. Okay. And just one more thing I'm going

1564
02:44:30,922 --> 02:44:30,922
to do. As you'll see on some of my social media, I'm going to do an 8 a.m. Just community

1565
02:44:37,288 --> 02:44:37,288
walk starting in front of rec center on saturdays for a while during the summer. That's just

1566
02:44:42,455 --> 02:44:42,455
something I'm doing to teach architecture. Nope. Just to walk the greenbelt. Just just

1567
02:44:47,855 --> 02:44:47,855
walking together with other people. Just anytime we can move. I love that idea. And we

1568
02:44:55,355 --> 02:44:55,355
are adjourned and I will see