1
00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:57,430
I was going to say let's get her going.

2
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,000
» Okay, we'll call to order the meeting of

3
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,759
Wednesday, September 2nd, 2026.

4
00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:06,240
Roll call. Um, Chuck Howard

5
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:06,959
>> present,

6
00:17:06,959 --> 00:17:10,559
>> Henley Maker, Katie Maxwell, alternate

7
00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:13,439
Jefferson Lynch, alternate Judy Murphy

8
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:15,600
>> here, vice chair Ursula Cruzi

9
00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:16,079
>> here,

10
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:17,199
>> chair Cindy Olsen

11
00:17:17,199 --> 00:17:18,319
>> here. Great.

12
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:21,280
>> Okay. Approval as the of the agenda as

13
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,280
written.

14
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,160
A motion and a second. I'll make a

15
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,760
motion to approve the agenda

16
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,039
>> of September 2nd.

17
00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:32,720
>> On September 2nd, 2026.

18
00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,320
>> I'll second it. All those in favor? Yes.

19
00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,440
>> Opposed? No. Motion carries.

20
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,720
Um, now we'll go to public comment.

21
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,880
Think we have anybody in the audience or

22
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,039
online for public comment?

23
00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:48,160
>> Nobody online.

24
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,280
>> Nobody.

25
00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,160
>> Okay. Any commissioners conflict of

26
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:56,720
interest on the presented agenda?

27
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,679
Nope. No conflict of interest. So,

28
00:17:59,679 --> 00:18:02,880
approval of the minutes for August 5th.

29
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:04,400
Need a motion and a second.

30
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:06,480
>> Motion to approve the minutes of August

31
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,679
5th, 2026.

32
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:11,280
>> Second.

33
00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:16,230
Um, discussion, corrections?

34
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,320
» Nope. [clears throat]

35
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,400
Uh, all those in favor? Yes.

36
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:21,120
>> Yes.

37
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:22,720
>> Opposed?

38
00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,520
>> Motion carries.

39
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,039
>> Staff updates.

40
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:29,200
>> I had all my updates in the report, so

41
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,799
if you have questions for me, let me

42
00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:32,880
know. But Nick had a

43
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,559
Yeah. So, uh I was at council, what was

44
00:18:36,559 --> 00:18:38,799
it?

45
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:44,320
>> Yeah. Uh last month and uh

46
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,559
Kate or Lisa brought up alternate

47
00:18:46,559 --> 00:18:49,280
procedures for all of the boards and

48
00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:51,840
they wanted me to talk to you guys about

49
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,640
it. So, I know we only have Judy here

50
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,600
tonight and Jefferson's not here. So if

51
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,000
the uh

52
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,520
let's say all five regular members were

53
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:10,799
here, right? Uh and it was like let's imagine we just have everyone

54
00:19:10,799 --> 00:19:17,840
here. Uh if the uh matter before us were

55
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,760
um

56
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,679
let's just say the general updates

57
00:19:21,679 --> 00:19:24,640
section, right? anyone can participate,

58
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,039
throw in how they feel, etc. If the

59
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,520
agenda then moved to the public hearing

60
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,720
on the subdivision application that is

61
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,760
when uh the I would ask that the uh

62
00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,480
alternates not participate when it's

63
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:47,120
quasi judicial because of uh creating a

64
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,240
record where uh

65
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,799
people that are not on the board that

66
00:19:52,799 --> 00:19:55,360
evening are

67
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:57,200
uh asking questions of the applicant.

68
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,679
and controlling how

69
00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:02,160
the hearing goes in a way. Uh if you

70
00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,640
think about it like the commission sits

71
00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:06,799
as the judge in a quasi judicial

72
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:10,720
application, you don't want uh someone

73
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,559
that really technically isn't the judge

74
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:15,039
for that piece asking questions of of

75
00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,799
witnesses in that case. Uh but in

76
00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:21,600
contrast to that, if we were to then

77
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,400
move to uh 8B tonight, the public

78
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,200
hearing on the ordinance, since that is

79
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,400
not quasi judicial and just legislative,

80
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,840
uh alternates can talk as much as they

81
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,520
want, not talk as much as they want,

82
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:37,120
participate,

83
00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:40,320
you know, feel free to to do whatever

84
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,559
the alternate decides to do. And that's

85
00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:45,120
a blanket rule across

86
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,400
all of our boards and commissions. Just

87
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,400
quasi judicial

88
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,440
items limit participation. Everything

89
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,120
else is fine. And obviously there's the

90
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:58,960
same goes for anything on the work

91
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,799
session agenda. There's never any

92
00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:02,960
restrictions or anything like that.

93
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,360
>> Okay. Yeah, I think we kind of do it

94
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:06,720
that way. Wouldn't that

95
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,600
>> I did too. I I just uh

96
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,919
>> Kate I think was the one that asked me

97
00:21:11,919 --> 00:21:14,799
to just uh make sure to talk to you guys

98
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:16,400
about it and then I'm also going to send

99
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,080
a memo to uh HPRC about it too.

100
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,600
>> Um a question though.

101
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:22,080
>> Yeah.

102
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,200
>> So like tonight we don't have a full

103
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:28,000
>> So like Yeah. So Judy's participating,

104
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,080
>> right? So she would even though she's an

105
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,600
alternate but we have a quorum.

106
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,360
>> That's why I thought they probably

107
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,440
should sit up here. I don't

108
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,880
>> I think anytime they're going to be a

109
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,120
voting member in a part of the meeting

110
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:43,200
because if the regular commission's not

111
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,600
here and the alternate is filling in,

112
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,960
they should sit up here then there's no

113
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,120
like the audience doesn't think well is

114
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:53,520
she or isn't she or isn't don't do it

115
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,440
now though. [laughter]

116
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:57,120
>> I I don't I don't care one way or

117
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:59,120
another. I don't even your

118
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,360
>> Yeah, but I just think it sends a clear

119
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:03,039
message to whoever is watching or

120
00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:05,280
thinking at that point. I I know it's

121
00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,440
confusing though because we do have

122
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,200
seven chairs up there. So

123
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,080
>> yeah. Yeah. But no. Um I Yeah. Okay.

124
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,480
>> I think um people went that um

125
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,080
alternates on boards have gone to

126
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,679
council and just expressed that they

127
00:22:17,679 --> 00:22:19,520
don't understand why they can't

128
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,159
participate all the time. So I think

129
00:22:22,159 --> 00:22:23,600
that's where it was coming from is that

130
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,120
alternates have reached out and said,

131
00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:27,360
"Hey, I don't really understand why I

132
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:28,159
don't get to

133
00:22:28,159 --> 00:22:28,880
>> well they can

134
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,799
>> comment and stuff." And so that that's

135
00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:32,640
the the difference is the quasi

136
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,720
judicial. They can be a public speaker.

137
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,440
They can sign up.

138
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,919
>> Of course. Yes, that is the actually I

139
00:22:37,919 --> 00:22:39,039
thank you for mentioning that.

140
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:40,000
>> Y

141
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,799
>> if it if it was like for this

142
00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:45,440
subdivision, let's pretend that Judy you

143
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,360
weren't participating on the subdivision

144
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,200
tonight and you really wanted to tell

145
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,080
someone how you feel. you would go and

146
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,799
during public comment be subject to the

147
00:22:56,799 --> 00:22:58,400
same rules of everyone else and you just

148
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,960
say I'm making these comments as a

149
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,360
member of the public and not as you know

150
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,840
an alternate member of the board.

151
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,440
>> No, that's good to clear it up. I think

152
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,080
we've been pretty on it.

153
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:10,799
>> Yeah.

154
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:13,600
So, okay.

155
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,320
Any [clears throat] other updates?

156
00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:17,760
Nothing else for me unless

157
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,440
>> any questions for Dylan on any of the

158
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,159
updates he had not counting what we have

159
00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:24,000
on the agenda.

160
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,960
>> No. Okay. So, we'll go on to new

161
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,039
business where we'll have a public

162
00:23:29,039 --> 00:23:32,640
hearing on the minor subdivision request

163
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,640
that we have for 521 Colorado Boulevard.

164
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:38,640
Um,

165
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,640
so, oh, I got to read this first. This

166
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,400
matter is set for a public hearing

167
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,080
before the city of Idaho Springs

168
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,520
Planning Commission tonight. The city

169
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,919
has received a request for a minor

170
00:23:49,919 --> 00:23:53,360
subdivision to create four lots at 521

171
00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:55,200
Colorado Boulevard. For this

172
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:56,720
application, the planning commission

173
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,799
will conduct a hearing and vote to

174
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:00,799
either recommend or not recommend the

175
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:03,120
application to city council. This is a

176
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:05,200
formal public meeting. We will require

177
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,840
testimony to be given under oath. Will

178
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,080
not follow any rules of evidence. If

179
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,520
there is a question about the

180
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,080
admissibility of evidence or testimony,

181
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,960
I'll make a ruling on that as the chair.

182
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,480
After I open the hearing, I'll invite

183
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:20,559
city staff to give a presentation. Then

184
00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:23,120
the applicant will be invited to present

185
00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,279
evidence and testimony. Then members of

186
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,279
the public will be invited to give

187
00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:29,919
evidence and testimony. City staff and

188
00:24:29,919 --> 00:24:31,919
the applicant may respond to public

189
00:24:31,919 --> 00:24:34,559
testimony. The applicant will then be

190
00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:36,640
given the opportunity to have the last

191
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,320
word on the matter raised during the

192
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,919
public hearing.

193
00:24:39,919 --> 00:24:42,240
Um throughout the process, commissioners

194
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,880
may ask questions. After we close the

195
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,159
public hearing, the commission will

196
00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:48,559
begin its deliberations and make our

197
00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:51,679
decision. We'll do this by motion. Um

198
00:24:51,679 --> 00:24:54,960
you'll see a motion in the staff report

199
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,039
and in our m motions guidelines. If any

200
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,080
if we cannot reach a decision tonight,

201
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,559
we can continue the matter. I'll now

202
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:09,200
open the public hearing at 608 for the

203
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,000
minor subdivision request create four

204
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:17,669
lots at 521 Colorado Boulevard.

205
00:25:17,679 --> 00:25:19,679
All right. Well, I'll start with a brief

206
00:25:19,679 --> 00:25:23,120
presentation of my staff reports. As

207
00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:25,039
mentioned, this is a minor subdivision

208
00:25:25,039 --> 00:25:27,600
application to create four lots at the

209
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,480
subject property. Um, interestingly,

210
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,520
this is sort of a a lot with a split

211
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,400
zoning at the moment because uh there's

212
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,320
two bubble homes that are zoned R2 and

213
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,360
dental office is zone C2. The goal is to

214
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,559
split those lots and then also create a

215
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:46,080
fourth lot on the back half of the

216
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,640
property which fronts IO Street um and

217
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,000
center alley. Plat is included in the

218
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,080
staff report in the packet. Um, this was

219
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,880
referred to

220
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,120
Excel, Comcast, Centry, Link, School

221
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,440
District, PD, Fire Authority,

222
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,640
Engineering, Public Works. Um, we had no

223
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,480
issues from our referral agencies or

224
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,559
comments. The there's five criteria for

225
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,080
approval as the staff report suggests.

226
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,279
It appears that it meets the the

227
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:25,279
criteria in in my opinion as staff. All

228
00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:27,840
the lots will continue to meet zoning.

229
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,679
Comprehensive plan calls a transitional

230
00:26:29,679 --> 00:26:32,080
mixed use which will allow residential

231
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,559
and commercial uses. Um so all the

232
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:37,600
current uses are in alignment with that.

233
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,600
And so with that in mind

234
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,720
staff recommend approval of or recommend

235
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,559
I guess that you recommend approval of

236
00:26:46,559 --> 00:26:48,400
the proposed minor subdivision and I

237
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,720
don't have any conditions included.

238
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,360
>> Question. So what do they want it zoned

239
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:56,240
at?

240
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,640
>> Um zoning wouldn't change as part of

241
00:26:58,640 --> 00:26:59,360
this.

242
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:01,520
>> You can take the property and keep the

243
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,400
individuals zoned separately then.

244
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,880
>> Well, because right now it's it's odd.

245
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,110
It's kind of I think

246
00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:13,679
it's it sort of is when the zoning came

247
00:27:13,679 --> 00:27:15,600
in. My guess is this was all one lot,

248
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,760
but they it was just zoned as well these

249
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,200
are residential uses. let's put

250
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,559
residential zoning on it and then rest

251
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:26,000
of it is commercial already. And so by

252
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,320
formally drawing in these lines, the two

253
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,039
mobile homes remain mobile homes and

254
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:32,960
remain as residential lots. So they're

255
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,000
in conformance.

256
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:34,320
>> Okay.

257
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,760
>> The other two lots, one of which has the

258
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,559
um the dental office and the other which

259
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:42,880
is is vacant at the moment, those are

260
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,279
zone C2. Dentist office is allowed in

261
00:27:45,279 --> 00:27:49,200
C2. So, it actually kind of clears up

262
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,480
this zoning issue of having multiple

263
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,990
different uses on a single legal parcel.

264
00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:59,840
» If they did want to do a reszoning,

265
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,000
they'd have to come back for a zoning

266
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:02,960
amendment.

267
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,520
>> Okay.

268
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,320
So, the zoning stays the form

269
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:14,149
same.

270
00:28:14,159 --> 00:28:16,880
It's lots one through 12. Okay.

271
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,080
>> Those are the the original city lots.

272
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,600
You know, it's like these uses are

273
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:27,760
spread out over 12 lots. And so the

274
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,360
consequence, I guess, or the final

275
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,039
outcome of this would be to create

276
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:33,919
instead of lots 1 through 12, it would

277
00:28:33,919 --> 00:28:39,600
be instead just lots I guess 1 A, 2 A, 3

278
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,720
A, and 4 A.

279
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,000
>> Okay.

280
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,440
>> For the minor subdivision.

281
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,039
>> Okay. That's kind of what I all of a

282
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,159
sudden when I saw the 12 I was like okay

283
00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:51,750
>> okay

284
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:52,480
» yes

285
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,080
>> that's it

286
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,120
>> for me unless

287
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,679
>> applicant presentation

288
00:28:57,679 --> 00:29:01,010
you're the applicant

289
00:29:01,010 --> 00:29:02,399
[laughter]

290
00:29:02,399 --> 00:29:05,039
>> would you like to go up there um

291
00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:07,919
>> give your name um I need your you to

292
00:29:07,919 --> 00:29:09,440
state your name and address the record

293
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,559
and I'm going to swear you

294
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:13,679
>> okay my name is Scott Keys my address is

295
00:29:13,679 --> 00:29:15,520
521 Colorado Boulevard.

296
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:16,799
>> Please raise your right hand

297
00:29:16,799 --> 00:29:18,640
>> in Idaho Springs, Colorado.

298
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,559
>> Thank you. Do you swear the testimony

299
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:22,320
you're about to give is the truth, the

300
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,760
whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

301
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:24,159
>> I do.

302
00:29:24,159 --> 00:29:25,900
>> Thank you.

303
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:26,240
[clears throat]

304
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:31,279
>> Um the only comment I had was um

305
00:29:31,279 --> 00:29:33,919
the purpose of reszoning this for me is

306
00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:36,080
I have a I mean obviously I own the

307
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:37,760
whole

308
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,679
plaque, the whole all 12 lots, right? Um

309
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:44,080
but the bottom piece, the piece that

310
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,880
fronts center alley, um I lost a

311
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:52,000
building in the snowstorm of 20 24

312
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,760
big one in March when we had like 5 ft

313
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,159
of snow in the 24

314
00:29:56,159 --> 00:29:59,919
building collapsed. It was formally um

315
00:29:59,919 --> 00:30:04,000
a lot of things was storage. We had we

316
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,399
demoed the lot. Now it's pretty kind of

317
00:30:06,399 --> 00:30:10,159
useless for me. Um, and so I thought it

318
00:30:10,159 --> 00:30:12,159
would be a good idea to subdivide that

319
00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:14,559
piece off of where my dental practice

320
00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:18,159
sits and and either

321
00:30:18,159 --> 00:30:19,919
be able to sell it as a separate lot

322
00:30:19,919 --> 00:30:22,799
instead of part of my dental practice um

323
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:25,360
or decide what to do with it at some

324
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,000
point. So, this makes it easier to

325
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,840
subdivide it that way rather than trying

326
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,000
to figure out how to cut it out of 12

327
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,720
different lots.

328
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:37,360
Any

329
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,320
questions for

330
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:41,760
seems pretty straightforward? I guess

331
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:43,520
one of the questions I have is if it

332
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,710
gets

333
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,360
or is there taps? How do taps work when

334
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,559
it's like that? So you have one, two,

335
00:30:52,559 --> 00:30:53,039
three.

336
00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:54,799
>> There is a tap. To my knowledge, there

337
00:30:54,799 --> 00:30:58,559
is a tap at the what we call slab right

338
00:30:58,559 --> 00:31:01,279
now. There's a tap down there. Um,

339
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:02,960
>> oh, on the one that the building

340
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,080
collapsed on.

341
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:04,559
>> Yeah.

342
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:06,159
>> So then you have the dental and then the

343
00:31:06,159 --> 00:31:07,760
other two. So you have like four taps

344
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,039
there. Okay.

345
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:10,799
>> Because if they were to subdivide it and

346
00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:12,880
then try to sell the piece, they'd have

347
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,440
to do a water tap then. Water.

348
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,520
>> Water tap is not always there.

349
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,760
>> Okay.

350
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,399
>> Right.

351
00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:22,480
>> Yeah. Yeah. If there was not an

352
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:24,240
additional tap, then they would have to

353
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,559
purchase a tap. But certainly they

354
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:30,000
could. I think regardless if you were to

355
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,840
if if they were to develop a new

356
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:33,520
building on the lot and there's not an

357
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,600
existing water sewage t even if it was

358
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,240
all one lot you'd still have to pay an

359
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,320
additional

360
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,141
fee.

361
00:31:42,141 --> 00:31:44,080
[clears throat]

362
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:45,440
>> That's interesting.

363
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,000
>> Okay, that's the only question I had was

364
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,039
on that. Seems pretty straightforward.

365
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:52,960
Um you mentioned zoning though, but

366
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,360
we're not changing the zoning. Okay,

367
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:56,399
just

368
00:31:56,399 --> 00:32:00,240
>> you said z. Did you catch it?

369
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,399
>> Which I understood what you meant.

370
00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:05,722
>> Okay, any questions from the questioner?

371
00:32:05,722 --> 00:32:06,720
[clears throat]

372
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,039
>> Not really. I mean, the only my only

373
00:32:09,039 --> 00:32:12,640
thought is um obvious it's pretty ser. I

374
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,640
agree. Uh

375
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,480
I love the sound that I get in my house.

376
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,240
So, I was just the only thought is like

377
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,080
if you were to sell that lot on this

378
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,399
outside like you're aware that they

379
00:32:24,399 --> 00:32:26,559
could take your sunshine.

380
00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:27,600
>> Yeah. [clears throat]

381
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,279
>> Yeah. I was actually thinking about that

382
00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:30,612
this morning. It's kind of funny.

383
00:32:30,612 --> 00:32:31,840
[laughter]

384
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,480
But, uh yeah, I'm aware of that

385
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,840
depending on I think the buildability of

386
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,240
the lot is is pretty restrictive because

387
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,559
of the setbacks from the street to my

388
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:44,880
knowledge. Um they were grandfathered in

389
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,399
when I bought the lot. Um, I don't know

390
00:32:48,399 --> 00:32:50,720
that they stay that way for good,

391
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:52,559
especially if it trans transfers to

392
00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:54,880
someone else, but that's for the city to

393
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,640
decide, not for me. Um, so I don't I

394
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,159
don't know if I don't know how much

395
00:33:00,159 --> 00:33:02,720
vertical obviously I don't know how much

396
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:04,399
vertical would be allowed. I know

397
00:33:04,399 --> 00:33:06,240
apartments are kind of tall, but I don't

398
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,640
know that you can get that there. So,

399
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,559
>> okay. Well, as long as you're aware, I'm

400
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:11,877
>> aware. It's your deal. Perfect.

401
00:33:11,877 --> 00:33:13,200
[laughter]

402
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,200
And it might be worth noting it's kind

403
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,159
of a strange lot line.

404
00:33:18,159 --> 00:33:20,720
>> And the reason for that is because it

405
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,880
basically follows a pretty steep

406
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,279
downward slope that slopes from north to

407
00:33:25,279 --> 00:33:27,120
south. So

408
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,679
>> that probably

409
00:33:29,679 --> 00:33:32,159
>> reduces the

410
00:33:32,159 --> 00:33:34,880
good 10 or 12 feet of

411
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,120
>> rain difference between the two lots.

412
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,960
So that might help should something

413
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:45,440
Also, my thought, not this is kind of a

414
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,880
sidebar, but my thought was if if I if

415
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,200
it's subdivided off of the piece of

416
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,000
property where my dental practice sits

417
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,799
and I needed to do some

418
00:33:56,799 --> 00:33:59,279
excavation or [clears throat] retaining

419
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:01,360
wall or something to hold that hill at

420
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,279
some point, then it might be easier to

421
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:05,039
do that as a separate item that's just

422
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:07,039
kind of a sidewall

423
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:09,040
rather than

424
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,839
tear down the fence.

425
00:34:11,839 --> 00:34:14,758
Yeah,

426
00:34:14,758 --> 00:34:15,679
[clears throat]

427
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:20,629
>> it's quite a difference between

428
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,399
» the height of the alley and the height

429
00:34:24,399 --> 00:34:29,270
of Colorado Boulevard. [clears throat]

430
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,839
» Oh, yeah.

431
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:34,079
>> I mean, the the building that collapsed

432
00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:38,000
was was I think it was 20 feet tall or

433
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,320
24 feet tall at the center. So, and it

434
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,000
was just right at the just just above

435
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,750
it's clear.

436
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:48,879
» Okay. Thank you.

437
00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:49,919
>> Yes, ma'am.

438
00:34:49,919 --> 00:34:52,639
>> Uh public comment. Anybody online?

439
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,079
Nobody here?

440
00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:56,480
>> Nobody online.

441
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,119
>> Okay. Um

442
00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:02,320
any other questions for staff or

443
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,200
applicant?

444
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,760
Oh, okay. So, now we'll close the public

445
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,440
hearing.

446
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,400
It is 619

447
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,119
on the minor subdivision request for 521

448
00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:18,320
Colorado Boulevard. And now we can

449
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,000
deliberate. And if we're done

450
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,599
deliberating, I'll need a motion

451
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:27,430
and a second.

452
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,119
Right. make a motion unless

453
00:35:31,119 --> 00:35:32,960
>> motion to recommend approval of

454
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,040
subdivision

455
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,390
uh 26-002.

456
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,200
» Is that enough?

457
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,430
>> Yep.

458
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,040
» We have a second.

459
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,119
>> I'll second it.

460
00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:50,640
>> Any further discussion?

461
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,599
So, roll call. Chuck Howard.

462
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:54,320
>> Yes.

463
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,280
>> Judy Murphy.

464
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,079
>> Yes. Uh, Vice Chair Ursula Lake.

465
00:35:58,079 --> 00:35:58,560
>> Yes.

466
00:35:58,560 --> 00:35:59,839
>> Chair Cindy Olsen.

467
00:35:59,839 --> 00:36:03,990
>> Yes.

468
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,410
» Okay.

469
00:36:07,420 --> 00:36:08,000
[laughter]

470
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,670
>> Enjoy.

471
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,320
>> Good night.

472
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,200
>> Okay. Now we'll go into another public

473
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,280
hearing.

474
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,119
Um,

475
00:36:21,119 --> 00:36:23,440
it's a public hearing on ordinance

476
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:27,680
number 17 series 2026, an ordinance

477
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,040
amending chapter 21 of the Idaho Springs

478
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,400
Municipal Coal to regulate group homes

479
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,040
and related residential uses for persons

480
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,520
with disabilities in conformance to

481
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,160
Colorado law and the federal housing

482
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:45,910
act.

483
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,240
Um,

484
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:50,640
so we open the hearing.

485
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:51,200
>> Yeah.

486
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,640
>> 6:20 p.m. And we'll start with city

487
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,240
staff presentations.

488
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:59,200
>> Sure. Thank you. Um, so we talked about

489
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,320
this last month at work session. This is

490
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,400
um something that our legal team

491
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,119
discovered that we are out of compliance

492
00:37:09,119 --> 00:37:12,560
with state and federal laws on this

493
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,320
subject.

494
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,079
What this um proposed code amendment

495
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:20,480
would do would

496
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,280
first of all replace the definition of

497
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,520
just group home to um

498
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,359
community residential home and then add

499
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:32,000
a number of other definitions for

500
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,000
different categories of group home. It

501
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,480
would also allow

502
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:40,400
the group home as byite use in a number

503
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000
of additional zone districts as is

504
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,520
required because um basically any zone

505
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,760
district that allows single family

506
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,440
residential as used by right has to

507
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,160
allow group homes as well. And then the

508
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,240
other thing it

509
00:37:56,240 --> 00:38:00,000
um that is important to note is they

510
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,520
still have to go through any process

511
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,920
that would be required for multif family

512
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,680
residential or single family residential

513
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,320
for permitting. And we also still have

514
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,000
authority over um any other municipal

515
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,760
code requirements. There are also

516
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,680
relevant state and federal permitting

517
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,440
and licensing requirements. And so if

518
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,280
they don't meet that, then we'd still

519
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,680
have a control except [clears throat]

520
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:26,000
deny a permit until they get that. Um,

521
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,720
and again, since this is bringing us

522
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,119
into compliant with compliance with

523
00:38:31,119 --> 00:38:33,599
state and federal laws,

524
00:38:33,599 --> 00:38:37,040
uh, I recommend approval of this

525
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,560
ordinance for adoption. Um, but if you

526
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,839
have any questions for us,

527
00:38:43,839 --> 00:38:45,839
can I wonder will do our best to answer

528
00:38:45,839 --> 00:38:47,241
it.

529
00:38:47,241 --> 00:38:47,920
>> [clears throat]

530
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,000
>> So this is from our discussion at our

531
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,640
last meeting. So it's to clean up what

532
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,480
we didn't have there more or less.

533
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,839
>> Exactly. Yeah. And at [clears throat]

534
00:38:55,839 --> 00:38:57,119
the last meeting was just the work

535
00:38:57,119 --> 00:39:01,119
session. So this is taking action.

536
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:03,680
>> Okay. Anybody have any questions?

537
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,520
>> I have a curious question more than

538
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,800
meaningful question. Um,

539
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,240
is there a reason why uh the individual

540
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,880
residential service and support settings

541
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,079
has an acronym in the other? No.

542
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:21,599
>> I just thought it was funny.

543
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,000
>> Uh, where on your So, it says proposed

544
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,480
changes and you list all the things.

545
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,079
>> Oh, and the staff me.

546
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:28,720
>> Uh, yes.

547
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:30,560
>> It's also in the ordinance. Like I just

548
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:31,680
pulled it from the ordinance.

549
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:32,960
>> Yeah, I think it's there too. like it

550
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,119
says individual residential services and

551
00:39:35,119 --> 00:39:37,680
support setting and then in parenthesis

552
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,720
IRSS setting. So, I just thought it was

553
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,040
curious that what there was a specific

554
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,000
difference,

555
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,200
>> you know? I think it was uh Carmen

556
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,200
feeling lazy when she was writing this

557
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,920
and saying, "Okay, I I

558
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:53,839
>> I'm fine with writing out recovery

559
00:39:53,839 --> 00:39:56,240
residents, but once I get to individual

560
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:58,000
residential, I just want to have to type

561
00:39:58,000 --> 00:39:58,480
out

562
00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,839
>> because it's so long." Perfect.

563
00:39:59,839 --> 00:40:00,880
>> Yeah, that makes sense.

564
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:02,079
>> I mean, some of the others are quite

565
00:40:02,079 --> 00:40:03,760
long as well, of course. Group home for

566
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:05,280
persons with behavioral or mental health

567
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:06,000
disorders.

568
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,680
>> Yeah. Well, it's [laughter]

569
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,440
drafter's prerogative, I think.

570
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,200
>> I have a question there, too.

571
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,720
What behavioral or mental health

572
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:21,599
activities are there that don't involve

573
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:25,670
violent offenses?

574
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:31,589
» Well, I don't think we define

575
00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:33,280
it might be more for you, but

576
00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,920
>> um well, let's see. It's at the statute.

577
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:36,480
So

578
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,200
>> my guess is that it's al it deals with

579
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,839
like developmental disabilities and

580
00:40:41,839 --> 00:40:48,310
things like that as well.

581
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,200
» Yeah. I mean could be really any mental

582
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,920
health disorder.

583
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,000
So would you like I guess that would be

584
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,319
covered that would be what would cover

585
00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:00,560
things like one or more substantial

586
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,960
disorders of the cognitive valitional or

587
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,520
emotional processes that grossly impairs

588
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,680
judgment or capacity to recognize

589
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:17,349
reality or to control behavior.

590
00:41:17,359 --> 00:41:21,119
And if somebody gets out of hand,

591
00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:24,079
they call for the police.

592
00:41:24,079 --> 00:41:27,599
>> Yeah. Yeah. And it has to be licensed by

593
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:29,359
the Colorado Department of Public Health

594
00:41:29,359 --> 00:41:33,119
and Environment. So they have

595
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:34,800
requirements and there are requirements

596
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,200
for staff for that. It appears.

597
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,680
>> That was my next question. Recovery

598
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,319
residents have a full-time counselor or

599
00:41:42,319 --> 00:41:46,160
somebody living on the premises. Yeah,

600
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,440
there's um

601
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,839
there's pretty strict requirements for

602
00:41:51,839 --> 00:41:53,520
licensing for some of these where there

603
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,160
are like on-site support staff and in

604
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:00,079
some cases there's requirements for like

605
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:01,599
certain types of meetings or like

606
00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:05,200
educational things or that sort of group

607
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,560
additional like mental health care

608
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,640
people that [clears throat] come in. And

609
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,040
so like our ordinance would cover all

610
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,200
that because we just default to the

611
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:21,190
state qualified licensing requirements.

612
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,440
» And I have one number of questions to

613
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,680
uh down farther in there. I can tell you

614
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,000
what page it's on 20.

615
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:34,720
>> Okay. Um,

616
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,359
it says something about me neighborhood

617
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:40,160
notification for a building that houses

618
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:46,150
people with behavioral disabilities.

619
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,000
» It's like

620
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,599
letter C maybe.

621
00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:55,440
>> Yeah. So, so the idea would be

622
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,000
if someone has an existing single family

623
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,240
home or duplex or multif family or

624
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,640
whatever that meets the that already

625
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,200
exists and you say, "Hey, I'm going to

626
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,240
convert this from chain of use, I guess,

627
00:43:08,240 --> 00:43:12,960
from single family residence to

628
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,240
whichever type of group home,

629
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:18,720
then

630
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:20,480
they would you just go through like

631
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,560
building permit or change abuse process,

632
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:24,720
there wouldn't be a notification to the

633
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:26,400
neighbors that says, "Hey, by the way,

634
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,640
now there's going to be this type of

635
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,440
group home next to you." However, if you

636
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:35,520
had a vacant lot and someone proposed

637
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,359
new residence,

638
00:43:37,359 --> 00:43:39,280
they might need a final development plan

639
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,880
and that that would be our land use

640
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,480
process that would require public

641
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:43,040
notice.

642
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,760
>> Yeah. So the use itself doesn't require

643
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:49,119
public notice but the act of creating

644
00:43:49,119 --> 00:43:53,520
that use if it requires variances or you

645
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,000
know things like that would have public

646
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,200
notice. Basically like they are not

647
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,160
subject to any additional notice

648
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:04,720
requirement that is not already in our

649
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:12,230
code for anyone else.

650
00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:16,000
» Right. And we're not I would say we as

651
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,319
city staff are not recommending this

652
00:44:18,319 --> 00:44:22,000
language because we for any reason other

653
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,440
than this is the language that's

654
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:32,550
required by state or federal law.

655
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:37,119
Okay. Any other questions? If not obtain

656
00:44:37,119 --> 00:44:39,040
a motion

657
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,520
in a second. Thank you. Did we

658
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,839
>> I think we closed it, didn't we?

659
00:44:43,839 --> 00:44:44,160
>> Oh,

660
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,760
>> and did we ask for public comment? Thank

661
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:46,160
you.

662
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:46,960
>> Yeah. Here.

663
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:48,480
>> Yes. You asked for public comment, but

664
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:49,760
the hearing is not closed yet.

665
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:52,960
>> Oh, sorry. Okay. Now, I'll close the

666
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,079
public hearing and it's 6:28

667
00:44:56,079 --> 00:44:59,750
p.m.

668
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:03,040
I thought we did discussion. Okay. Now,

669
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,680
a motion. Sorry, you just did it, you

670
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,160
know.

671
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,760
Um,

672
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:10,319
go ahead.

673
00:45:10,319 --> 00:45:13,119
>> You can take turns. [laughter]

674
00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:14,880
>> I'll make a motion to recommend approval

675
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:19,760
ordinance number 17, series 2026.

676
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,359
>> Sure,

677
00:45:21,359 --> 00:45:23,839
I'll second it.

678
00:45:23,839 --> 00:45:26,160
>> Any other discussion?

679
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:27,599
Roll call.

680
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:28,720
>> Chuck Howard,

681
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:29,599
>> yes.

682
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:30,560
>> Judy Murphy,

683
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:31,440
>> yes.

684
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,440
>> Vice Chair Ursula Krule,

685
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:33,920
>> yes.

686
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:35,359
>> Chair Cindy Olsen,

687
00:45:35,359 --> 00:45:36,640
>> yes.

688
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,349
Okay, motion carries.

689
00:45:41,359 --> 00:45:44,240
Okay, next item on the agenda is old

690
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:45,680
business.

691
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,079
>> I don't have any old business today.

692
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:49,680
>> Okay,

693
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:53,680
any questions on old business?

694
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:57,280
>> Okay, we'll adjourn the meeting at 6:29

695
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,680
p.m. Gez.

696
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:00,640
>> Thank you.

697
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:03,520
>> Public hearings and

698
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,441
part of the night wonder.

699
00:46:05,441 --> 00:46:07,200
>> [laughter]

700
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,560
>> Best part of the night for you.

701
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:11,920
>> Hi everyone. Nice.

702
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:12,880
>> Nice.

703
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:15,200
>> You might wonder. So now we'll go into

704
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,750
the work session.

705
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,240
» There's three. There are three items.

706
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:25,040
I'm hoping they're all pretty quick.

707
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,119
>> Um does anyone need a break or anything

708
00:46:27,119 --> 00:46:28,880
or should we just

709
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:29,760
>> keep her going?

710
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,160
>> Okay. Okay. So, this first one

711
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,160
>> um I've been dealing with this

712
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,359
recently. So, you know, we have non a

713
00:46:39,359 --> 00:46:40,560
section of the code that has

714
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:41,680
non-conforming buildings and

715
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,800
non-conforming uses. So, basically like

716
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,079
let's say you have a dentist office in

717
00:46:48,079 --> 00:46:51,599
R1 zoning. It's but it is existed that

718
00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:53,599
can remain as long as it stays that way

719
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:55,920
but it's not performing use. Similarly,

720
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,839
let's say I have my house and it's only

721
00:46:57,839 --> 00:46:59,359
one foot from the property line and the

722
00:46:59,359 --> 00:47:02,480
setback's 5T. That's a non-conforming

723
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,680
building. And so, um, talking with

724
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,839
Carmen, the way that our code is written

725
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:10,079
right now,

726
00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:13,119
don't explicitly have the allowance

727
00:47:13,119 --> 00:47:16,160
for someone to expand their building.

728
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,720
And so, for example, you know, you have

729
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:20,640
a building that's right on the property

730
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:22,160
line.

731
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,280
Obviously, you can't expand it

732
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,040
off your property, but on the other side

733
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,640
of your property, say you have 50 feet

734
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,599
of space, the way our code reads is we

735
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:33,440
wouldn't allow that building to be

736
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:36,720
expanded even if the new addition is

737
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:39,280
compliant with setbacks and height and

738
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,680
all of that. And so that could be fine

739
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,480
if we want to take that approach. But

740
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,400
what a lot of other places do is they

741
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,680
say you can't really change or expand

742
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,920
your encroachment in that makes it

743
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,760
non-conforming. But if you want to do an

744
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:58,480
addition to your house or your business

745
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:00,319
and the addition meets all the current

746
00:48:00,319 --> 00:48:03,280
requirements, you can do that. And so I

747
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,680
wanted to bring this to to you all to

748
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,480
say does it make sense for us to

749
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,119
explicitly add that allowance so that

750
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:13,119
people can expand or change their homes

751
00:48:13,119 --> 00:48:15,760
as long as the new work meets current

752
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:18,640
requirements. Um if we don't do that

753
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,520
then you know folks are kind of just

754
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,240
stuck with the square footage they have

755
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:28,559
whatot or could do a addition that's

756
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:30,640
detached or something like that. I don't

757
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,280
think there's a reason not to do it

758
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,040
because they have to meet the building

759
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:36,960
requirements and code requirements

760
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,079
anyway. Um, and it could be a simple

761
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:43,200
like you said, adding a bedroom or isn't

762
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:47,200
it to fix something that if it

763
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,119
>> fell apart or like the gentleman that

764
00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:51,599
was here collapsed, he'd be able to

765
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:55,280
remix it? So, so he could So, right now

766
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,119
the non-conforming

767
00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,839
section of the code allows you if you're

768
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:01,680
building that's non-conforming is

769
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,920
damaged or destroyed,

770
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:06,079
>> you can rebuild it exactly like for

771
00:49:06,079 --> 00:49:09,599
like, but you couldn't change the

772
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:11,200
footprint of that building. You'd have

773
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:12,800
to rebuild it like for like. You

774
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,400
couldn't like say, "Well, my building

775
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:16,400
just collapsed in a snowstorm. Why don't

776
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,160
I expand it build it better?" like, you

777
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:21,920
know, build it back further into the

778
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:24,880
lot, keep the original footprint plus

779
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,040
expand it to to give some additional

780
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,200
square footage. And, you know, most of

781
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,040
our lots were quite small, but you could

782
00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:33,839
foresee a scenario where someone has a

783
00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:35,200
little house and there's room to expand

784
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:36,880
in the back, but it's too close to the

785
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,880
front. Now, they have three kids and now

786
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,640
they have four kids. We really want that

787
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,400
other bedroom.

788
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,119
Um, this kind of clarifies that you can

789
00:49:45,119 --> 00:49:47,599
do that addition.

790
00:49:47,599 --> 00:49:49,200
I think it's something we should do.

791
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,280
What's anybody else's?

792
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:53,920
>> Okay. Um

793
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,319
thing and um and I've been thinking

794
00:49:56,319 --> 00:49:58,160
about this since we've been talking

795
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,400
Carlson and all those things. Um my only

796
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,880
thought about this is that it will be

797
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,200
nice in a way and I don't know if I feel

798
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:10,160
like it will be way too hard to

799
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:12,559
even figure out how to approve or not

800
00:50:12,559 --> 00:50:14,800
things. But

801
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,319
my thought is like if we have a

802
00:50:16,319 --> 00:50:18,559
situation like that in a place and they

803
00:50:18,559 --> 00:50:20,880
do want to expand on this one area that

804
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,520
they can't but everybody else and for

805
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,839
example their neighbors are and we think

806
00:50:25,839 --> 00:50:29,040
that it would look better if they all

807
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:34,470
were unifor

808
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,200
to decide on that. Um

809
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:39,040
>> but they could because they could appeal

810
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,760
for a a variance if they wanting to

811
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:44,400
build something. So that is an opt an

812
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:45,040
option

813
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,359
>> that would be an option but I would say

814
00:50:47,359 --> 00:50:49,280
with variances

815
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:49,839
like

816
00:50:49,839 --> 00:50:51,440
>> if we already have rules that say no

817
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,920
then the variance probably can go around

818
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:54,720
again rules

819
00:50:54,720 --> 00:51:00,069
>> like could can't do uh

820
00:51:00,079 --> 00:51:02,000
» well can't do a variance for

821
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,599
non-conforming

822
00:51:03,599 --> 00:51:07,839
>> I think what you could say well I think

823
00:51:07,839 --> 00:51:10,000
it would be hard to meet the criteria

824
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,680
because like you say well you already

825
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,920
have an 800 foot house or a thousand

826
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:16,559
square foot house or in Carlson's case

827
00:51:16,559 --> 00:51:18,319
you have a 20,000 foot building or

828
00:51:18,319 --> 00:51:21,200
whatever it is like what's the need for

829
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,800
a variance you already have a usable

830
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:28,000
house that's been there for 100 years so

831
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,280
I don't know that I mean reasonable to

832
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,200
let it me personally think it's

833
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,440
reasonable to let someone expand but um

834
00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:39,280
>> I was thinking more on a house not

835
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:40,160
Carlson

836
00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:41,920
>> but Carlson I think is Actually, a

837
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,400
reasonable point to bring up is like,

838
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,640
you know, Carlson is like this C-shape,

839
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,240
let's say, you know, three-sided, but

840
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:49,839
there's that whole bit in the middle.

841
00:51:49,839 --> 00:51:51,760
This would never work for the parking,

842
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:53,599
but let's say someone came in and said,

843
00:51:53,599 --> 00:51:55,760
"Well, I want to keep the existing

844
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,319
building, but I want to do an addition

845
00:51:58,319 --> 00:52:00,960
in the middle of the open space where

846
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,599
the playground used to be, so I can get

847
00:52:03,599 --> 00:52:06,400
extra usable space."

848
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,520
as it's written now, you couldn't do

849
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,880
that expansion because

850
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,240
your building's not performing because

851
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:15,839
it doesn't meet current setbacks. It's

852
00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:17,920
built all the way up to like 13th

853
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:19,760
Avenue. So, you couldn't even do your

854
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:21,359
compliant addition in the middle where

855
00:52:21,359 --> 00:52:24,240
the playground used to be. But what this

856
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:26,319
code amendment would do would be to say,

857
00:52:26,319 --> 00:52:28,800
okay, well, now you can do your little

858
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,559
addition in the middle as long as you

859
00:52:30,559 --> 00:52:31,839
meet all the requirements for parking

860
00:52:31,839 --> 00:52:32,319
and whatnot,

861
00:52:32,319 --> 00:52:34,079
>> but still have to meet the requirements.

862
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:35,119
So,

863
00:52:35,119 --> 00:52:36,960
>> right. So, so that is kind of a real

864
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:38,880
world example.

865
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,160
>> Yeah. Yeah.

866
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:41,839
>> Yeah. No, I mean they did this for sure.

867
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:44,319
I just was wondering if there's any

868
00:52:44,319 --> 00:52:46,079
other ways to make it a little flexible

869
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:49,119
circum circumstances, but also I don't

870
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:51,599
feel like we shouldn't do this just

871
00:52:51,599 --> 00:52:53,599
because

872
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:55,040
you're just saying how can it work?

873
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:57,200
>> Yeah, if it would be possible, you know,

874
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,400
blue mainly.

875
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,520
Well, and thinking of Carlson again, if

876
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,000
we did this code amendment and then they

877
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,119
someone came in and said, "I want to

878
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:08,480
keep the building, but I want to

879
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:10,960
increase the height of story." They

880
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,161
still couldn't do that because you

881
00:53:13,161 --> 00:53:14,880
[clears throat] can't like let's say on

882
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:16,319
13th they said, "I'm going to go up a

883
00:53:16,319 --> 00:53:18,079
level." Like, it doesn't meet the

884
00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:20,640
setback. So, you can't add a level that

885
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,240
doesn't meet the setbacks because you're

886
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:24,000
expanding the encroachment in that

887
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,559
setback area. So like they couldn't just

888
00:53:26,559 --> 00:53:28,800
say we're going to add a story and leave

889
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:30,400
the footprint the same because that

890
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:31,920
still expands the approachment. They'd

891
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:34,880
have to expand the building somewhere

892
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,119
that meets the requirements. So it kind

893
00:53:37,119 --> 00:53:39,440
of protects neighbors, I guess, from

894
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:40,800
someone saying, "I want to take my

895
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,400
building that's one foot from your

896
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,960
property and make it 35t tall,"

897
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,599
>> which I've had people say before. They

898
00:53:49,599 --> 00:53:52,880
actually could do a variance in limited

899
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,680
circumstances depending on what the ask

900
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:56,559
is.

901
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:56,960
>> Okay.

902
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,359
>> So there I mean it is available but

903
00:53:59,359 --> 00:54:01,280
variance language we have isn't the best

904
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:02,720
but

905
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:04,240
>> there's a process

906
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:08,000
>> and I guess we could they could use

907
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,960
like a architecture character or with

908
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,640
neighborhood character or something

909
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,880
>> a story. Um not necessarily just because

910
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,720
if they're like they come in there the

911
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:20,960
reason is like well this houses would uh

912
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,119
are like that and yeah we think it will

913
00:54:23,119 --> 00:54:25,359
look good and will continuity of the

914
00:54:25,359 --> 00:54:27,280
design of the street or the block or

915
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:28,079
whatever.

916
00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:33,359
>> So not yes and no because the variance

917
00:54:33,359 --> 00:54:36,960
process you have to meet a bunch of

918
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,319
different criteria.

919
00:54:38,319 --> 00:54:38,880
>> Okay.

920
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:40,240
>> And some are that.

921
00:54:40,240 --> 00:54:42,319
>> Okay. But others are like like the

922
00:54:42,319 --> 00:54:45,599
classic one is you'll suffer a hardship

923
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:49,599
if you can't do this the way you want to

924
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:51,599
do it. That's usually pretty tough to

925
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:52,240
prove.

926
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:52,800
>> Okay.

927
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,680
>> But uh unless you like you never know,

928
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:57,119
you know, like if you have vacant lot

929
00:54:57,119 --> 00:54:58,800
like this is one I think we have a few

930
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:00,960
vacant lots that are really tiny and

931
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:02,720
they're vacant and it's like you can't

932
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:05,440
build a house on that lot without

933
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,760
getting the variance because

934
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:08,559
>> the setbacks.

935
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:10,400
>> It's Yeah. because the setbacks take up

936
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,000
all except for like 10 feet of the

937
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,520
space. So like that's the one where

938
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:15,280
clearly there would be a hardship of not

939
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,880
being able to develop at all

940
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,359
and we've approved some variances board

941
00:55:21,359 --> 00:55:24,000
has for sheds quite frequently and it's

942
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,240
just because lots are small and houses

943
00:55:26,240 --> 00:55:28,000
tend to be small. They've said that it's

944
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:29,839
a hardship not to be able to store

945
00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:31,440
things securely and there's not enough

946
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,839
storage space in the the house.

947
00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:35,280
>> Are you getting people asking about

948
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,520
this? Well, it's come up a couple of

949
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,079
times actually recently with building

950
00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:40,800
permits.

951
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:42,960
>> Okay. So,

952
00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:45,520
and I'd never really I wouldn't be

953
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:47,200
surprised if permits have been approved

954
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:49,920
in the past and it's just, you know,

955
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,960
kind of by mistake. But now is the time.

956
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,000
Fix it, I guess, because there's just

957
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,079
from like doing kind of an initial

958
00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:01,280
search, I'd guess there's a third of

959
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:03,520
houses in town

960
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:06,319
are not conforming because of just the

961
00:56:06,319 --> 00:56:08,640
size of lots.

962
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,480
And so people if if we take a stance you

963
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,319
can't do it and we don't kind of clarify

964
00:56:14,319 --> 00:56:17,280
that you can do it then a lot of people

965
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,520
are not able to really do much with

966
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,599
their property without trying for a

967
00:56:21,599 --> 00:56:22,480
variance.

968
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,400
>> So what do you just do a code amendment

969
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:24,960
for this?

970
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:26,559
>> Yeah this would be a code amendment and

971
00:56:26,559 --> 00:56:28,400
really it would kind of just be adding

972
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,640
like that one sentence or something

973
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,880
similar to it that's kind of at the

974
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,040
bottom. You just add a sentence that

975
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:38,079
says compliant

976
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:40,400
enlargements

977
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,160
are permitted basically.

978
00:56:44,160 --> 00:56:48,079
So I'll if if direction is move forward

979
00:56:48,079 --> 00:56:49,599
and I'll bring it to council and then

980
00:56:49,599 --> 00:56:52,720
we'll have pretty simple ordinance for

981
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:55,440
you to review in the near future.

982
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,160
>> Amen.

983
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:00,640
>> Now the next one is the lighting. Oh my

984
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:03,520
gosh, there was so much paper.

985
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:05,680
>> Yeah, I I tried not to make it too much,

986
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,240
but I I wanted you guys to have

987
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:10,000
>> some examples to look at.

988
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,160
>> So, when you looked at these examples,

989
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,640
what is the first pick of

990
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:17,599
the examples?

991
00:57:17,599 --> 00:57:19,920
>> Well, the I think the question that Nick

992
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,240
wanted to present tonight was, do you

993
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,040
have a preference? And I would say Aspen

994
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,359
is by far the most detailed, right?

995
00:57:27,359 --> 00:57:29,599
that's like 20 something pages long of

996
00:57:29,599 --> 00:57:32,720
just dark or 23 pages about their dark

997
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:35,040
sky and they set up really specific

998
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:36,799
circumstances and different lighting

999
00:57:36,799 --> 00:57:38,480
zones and all this stuff.

1000
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:40,000
>> Um,

1001
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,480
and it's really really detailed. Then

1002
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:44,400
Littleton is like kind of a medium

1003
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:46,799
amount of detail and it gets into a lot

1004
00:57:46,799 --> 00:57:49,440
of

1005
00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:52,960
maximum lumens and needs for lighting

1006
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:57,599
plans and um things like that. And then

1007
00:57:57,599 --> 00:58:01,040
John'stown still requires downcast cut

1008
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,680
off fixtures that are shielded. It has

1009
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,000
limits. It has a color temperature

1010
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,079
rating, but

1011
00:58:08,079 --> 00:58:11,359
that's kind of it, you know.

1012
00:58:11,359 --> 00:58:13,280
The other thing was that I think is

1013
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,079
important to note is Aspen had a

1014
00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:18,319
basically said

1015
00:58:18,319 --> 00:58:21,440
this applies to everyone existing single

1016
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,599
family homes future single family homes

1017
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:26,319
existing businesses future businesses

1018
00:58:26,319 --> 00:58:28,880
and everyone has five years to comply.

1019
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,040
So you know you have a motion sensor

1020
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,640
light that's too bright you have five

1021
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:34,799
years to buy a new one at your single

1022
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:38,319
family home. Um, Johntown just basically

1023
00:58:38,319 --> 00:58:42,480
said just applies to new construction

1024
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,720
and in fact, I'm pretty sure only

1025
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:48,559
applies to the significant upgrades to

1026
00:58:48,559 --> 00:58:50,000
existing lighting,

1027
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,559
>> right? And it would

1028
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:54,720
apply to like a new single family home,

1029
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:57,440
but like if you did an addition to your

1030
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:58,960
existing single family home, you don't

1031
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,520
have to change anything ever. And so

1032
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,880
I think it's like Aspen is a official

1033
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,079
dark sky like international dark sky

1034
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:11,680
community.

1035
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,920
>> Johntown's not and it's just I think

1036
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:17,839
with direction on how detailed we want

1037
00:59:17,839 --> 00:59:20,319
to get at it. Then Nick and I can work

1038
00:59:20,319 --> 00:59:22,559
on like actually presenting an ordinance

1039
00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:24,960
with

1040
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:26,799
>> the the one thing I actually found

1041
00:59:26,799 --> 00:59:30,160
interesting is obviously John'stown is

1042
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:32,319
the simplest one. So you'd think all

1043
00:59:32,319 --> 00:59:34,480
right maybe that's the oldest one.

1044
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:37,440
They're actually the most recent po that

1045
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:39,040
kind of maybe two three months ago I

1046
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,640
think. Okay. So,

1047
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:44,160
>> so when we talked about it one time like

1048
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,799
so new buildings or new developments

1049
00:59:46,799 --> 00:59:51,280
that we've had there's a international

1050
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,480
sky ordinance or something.

1051
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,400
So, it sounds like Aspen might have

1052
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,559
taken a lot of that because you said you

1053
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:00,640
used the word international. you know

1054
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,319
how there's like the international

1055
01:00:02,319 --> 01:00:04,640
building codes

1056
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:08,160
um which I don't know if we need to do

1057
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,359
that like Aspen did. I mean it's not

1058
01:00:11,359 --> 01:00:13,680
like we have a whole lot of out of

1059
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,880
compliance here already.

1060
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,200
I mean is there some annoying stuff out

1061
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,640
there that people notice? I think

1062
01:00:22,640 --> 01:00:25,520
probably just the east commercial

1063
01:00:25,520 --> 01:00:27,040
building

1064
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:28,559
and the McDonald

1065
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:30,960
>> which a lot of their things that they

1066
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:32,799
would say is probably because of safety

1067
01:00:32,799 --> 01:00:34,400
and parking and stuff

1068
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:36,559
>> which is a different animal than

1069
01:00:36,559 --> 01:00:37,839
residential

1070
01:00:37,839 --> 01:00:40,880
>> right but these would like going forward

1071
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,040
if we passed honestly it looks like any

1072
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,760
of them they establish a 20 foot height

1073
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,400
limit for polemounted fixtures so if you

1074
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:49,359
wanted a

1075
01:00:49,359 --> 01:00:50,160
>> new stuff

1076
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,359
>> a new huge McDonald's sign can only be

1077
01:00:53,359 --> 01:00:54,880
20 feet tall.

1078
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,920
>> You couldn't have it be guessing as

1079
01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:59,680
close to 50 feet tall right now.

1080
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:01,599
>> Well, I think we already have that down

1081
01:01:01,599 --> 01:01:04,799
there that they can't put tall ones in

1082
01:01:04,799 --> 01:01:06,960
unless they're already existing,

1083
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:07,760
>> right?

1084
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:15,119
>> So, that's kind of addressed already. I guess my thought is a combination of

1085
01:01:15,119 --> 01:01:19,200
the Littleton and the

1086
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,839
>> Johnson.

1087
01:01:21,839 --> 01:01:23,200
>> I think that's doable.

1088
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:24,880
>> And

1089
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:26,559
>> unless there's something good out of

1090
01:01:26,559 --> 01:01:30,480
this. This was hard to read.

1091
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:33,359
I feel like the um

1092
01:01:33,359 --> 01:01:36,079
enforcement of the Aspen ordinance would

1093
01:01:36,079 --> 01:01:38,319
be a bit of an undertaking,

1094
01:01:38,319 --> 01:01:40,720
>> but I think the one good thing from that

1095
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:42,799
is

1096
01:01:42,799 --> 01:01:47,359
do we want it to um

1097
01:01:47,359 --> 01:01:48,799
>> do do we

1098
01:01:48,799 --> 01:01:54,000
>> have time like well do we care if about

1099
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,319
requiring existing properties to get

1100
01:01:56,319 --> 01:01:58,720
into compliance?

1101
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:02,880
I I in a way think it would be nice for

1102
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,599
the community,

1103
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:10,400
but it's hard to make people do stuff

1104
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:12,240
and then

1105
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,200
>> how do you get them to do it and you

1106
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:15,839
know

1107
01:02:15,839 --> 01:02:17,119
>> Yeah.

1108
01:02:17,119 --> 01:02:20,000
>> make it happen every person to court

1109
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,599
basically,

1110
01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:23,119
>> right? Um

1111
01:02:23,119 --> 01:02:24,000
>> pestering them.

1112
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:25,040
>> Yeah.

1113
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,359
>> Or you just annoy them. But I think

1114
01:02:27,359 --> 01:02:29,680
having something in place that people

1115
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:31,680
really know about if there's a way for

1116
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,799
them to know about it. So where you're

1117
01:02:34,799 --> 01:02:36,720
going to replace an outdoor light,

1118
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:38,720
you're going to run to Home Depot, it'll

1119
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,119
make you sit there and think that I'm

1120
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:44,480
going to be compliant with what what the

1121
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,200
city has because I'm a good neighbor.

1122
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:47,520
>> Yeah.

1123
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:48,880
>> Um

1124
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,599
>> Right. But to put a time frame on it, I

1125
01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:53,440
kind of like it, but then I don't like

1126
01:02:53,440 --> 01:02:55,599
the fact that you have to tell people

1127
01:02:55,599 --> 01:02:58,400
and five years

1128
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,799
seems too short,

1129
01:03:00,799 --> 01:03:01,520
you know?

1130
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:02,000
>> Sure.

1131
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,160
>> Especially in times like today, a lot of

1132
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,160
people are they really remodeling and

1133
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,160
doing stuff?

1134
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:12,880
Um, right. So to put a time limit,

1135
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:15,200
I don't know. That's just my thought.

1136
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,920
Um,

1137
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:19,839
didn't it wasn't it this one I was

1138
01:03:19,839 --> 01:03:21,599
talking to you about with Summit County

1139
01:03:21,599 --> 01:03:23,599
where they're all going to this stuff

1140
01:03:23,599 --> 01:03:24,640
too.

1141
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,640
>> Summit County has a pretty detailed one.

1142
01:03:26,640 --> 01:03:29,440
I'd say it's not quite Aspen, but it's

1143
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:32,240
more than Littleton. And the problem I

1144
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:33,760
had when I worked there, which I'm sure

1145
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:35,760
is still an issue, is that people would

1146
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,760
constantly call and be like, I don't

1147
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,200
like my neighbor's light. They installed

1148
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,000
a new bulb. It's too bright and you need

1149
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,280
to like fix it. So then you have to call

1150
01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:47,039
them and say, "Hey, I have to go look at

1151
01:03:47,039 --> 01:03:48,799
your light. It's out of compliance. You

1152
01:03:48,799 --> 01:03:50,720
have to fix it." And they it's a whole

1153
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:52,720
ordeal of just really it's just two

1154
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,799
neighbors who don't like each other.

1155
01:03:54,799 --> 01:03:56,720
>> Well, it's I have to say it's gotten

1156
01:03:56,720 --> 01:03:58,480
hard to buy lights. Have you gone and

1157
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,400
bought light bulbs lately?

1158
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,520
>> You go in and it's warm light or what's

1159
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:05,839
the other one called? Warm and then

1160
01:04:05,839 --> 01:04:08,079
bright or whatever, but when you buy the

1161
01:04:08,079 --> 01:04:10,640
warm, it's still not that warm yellow

1162
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,680
like it used to be. It's still bright.

1163
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:14,160
Yeah,

1164
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:16,240
>> everything's like LED these days.

1165
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:18,240
>> It's like, wow. You put it in your

1166
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:19,520
bathroom and you walk in and it's like,

1167
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:22,559
"Oh, geez, that's too bright."

1168
01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:24,559
>> It's true. You have to buy

1169
01:04:24,559 --> 01:04:26,880
>> So, I can see for out outside fixtures,

1170
01:04:26,880 --> 01:04:29,039
that's a tough one because if you've got

1171
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:31,200
the white bright one, your neighbor is

1172
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:33,119
going to get annoyed, but yet you bought

1173
01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:34,640
a soft one,

1174
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:35,119
>> right?

1175
01:04:35,119 --> 01:04:35,760
>> Yeah.

1176
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:37,839
And that's where I think, you

1177
01:04:37,839 --> 01:04:39,680
know, if someone just replaces a light

1178
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,559
bulb saying, "Sorry, now you're out of

1179
01:04:42,559 --> 01:04:44,480
compliance." It's like a nightmare

1180
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,400
because the solution is you unscrew the

1181
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,240
light bulb and then you just screw it

1182
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:50,000
back. Like you can't take someone to

1183
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,720
court for installing too bright of a

1184
01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:54,880
light bulb and then just taking it out

1185
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:56,319
and putting back in. You know, it would

1186
01:04:56,319 --> 01:04:58,240
be a nightmare.

1187
01:04:58,240 --> 01:04:59,599
>> I don't know what somebody else's

1188
01:04:59,599 --> 01:05:03,839
thought on combination of the two.

1189
01:05:03,839 --> 01:05:07,760
I like the principles that hman uses. I

1190
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,480
definitely wouldn't want us to be super

1191
01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,559
specific about

1192
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:16,319
anything general necessarily. Um

1193
01:05:16,319 --> 01:05:20,000
I do think that

1194
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,280
maybe here the the what do you call it

1195
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:27,760
here the different areas

1196
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:28,559
zones.

1197
01:05:28,559 --> 01:05:33,039
>> Yeah. um thinking historic district, you

1198
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:35,920
know, it's like a different

1199
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:39,520
situation that by the park, right? Like

1200
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:41,119
there's people here hang out a little

1201
01:05:41,119 --> 01:05:44,720
later like by CCRC usually there's

1202
01:05:44,720 --> 01:05:46,640
people but I don't know I'm just feeling

1203
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,079
like we could have different zones

1204
01:05:50,079 --> 01:05:52,160
unless he's thinking that we should we

1205
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:53,440
need to

1206
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,160
>> just that yeah that's doable. I mean if

1207
01:05:56,160 --> 01:06:03,599
you look at little tense on page five of their stuff,

1208
01:06:03,599 --> 01:06:06,400
they speak about different standards for

1209
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:08,000
downtown

1210
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,799
and the South Plat River environment,

1211
01:06:10,799 --> 01:06:14,079
whatever that means to them. So, I I

1212
01:06:14,079 --> 01:06:17,280
think that's something we could look at.

1213
01:06:17,280 --> 01:06:19,039
>> You could also break it up potentially

1214
01:06:19,039 --> 01:06:22,160
by residential or park area versus like

1215
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:24,880
commercial Yeah. area. That's a little

1216
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,160
tough though because you have some

1217
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,039
commercial mixed in with residential and

1218
01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:32,240
then it's true. Do you start a

1219
01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:34,559
>> feud within town like well that guy gets

1220
01:06:34,559 --> 01:06:36,640
to and I don't.

1221
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:37,039
>> True.

1222
01:06:37,039 --> 01:06:39,440
>> I mean new construction absolutely.

1223
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:39,760
Yeah.

1224
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:40,559
>> Um

1225
01:06:40,559 --> 01:06:43,119
>> I think that's the real goal that easily

1226
01:06:43,119 --> 01:06:46,079
gets solved by passing any of these.

1227
01:06:46,079 --> 01:06:48,240
It's just they all like that was my big

1228
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,319
takeaway is the Aspen's a whole

1229
01:06:50,319 --> 01:06:51,920
different league. But the other ones,

1230
01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:55,039
it's just how you handle existing

1231
01:06:55,039 --> 01:06:55,680
things.

1232
01:06:55,680 --> 01:06:58,720
>> Well, and it could be any

1233
01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:00,880
anybody that comes in for a building

1234
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:03,119
permit, anything like that. It could

1235
01:07:03,119 --> 01:07:09,119
apply to these um dwelling changes,

1236
01:07:09,119 --> 01:07:11,520
non-conforming like we just did. I mean,

1237
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:13,440
you could put

1238
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:15,680
pretty much everything into it except

1239
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:20,079
for trying to enforce existing,

1240
01:07:20,079 --> 01:07:21,440
>> right? Yeah. If you're not doing

1241
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:22,640
anything and you're not changing

1242
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,760
anything, you just

1243
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:27,520
keep doing what you're doing. It seems

1244
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,039
like it's probably the easiest way of

1245
01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:32,720
>> if they haven't if the neighbors haven't

1246
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,359
hollered yet, they probably won't,

1247
01:07:35,359 --> 01:07:38,319
>> right? True.

1248
01:07:38,319 --> 01:07:40,480
>> Okay. Um the only the other thought I

1249
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,319
have about um this um you mentioned that

1250
01:07:44,319 --> 01:07:51,680
Aspen is a like certified uh dark sky something town.

1251
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:54,319
>> Um I just wonder if that is something

1252
01:07:54,319 --> 01:07:57,680
that we would ever want to just you know

1253
01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:59,359
throw out there in the community to see

1254
01:07:59,359 --> 01:08:01,920
if people feels like that's something we

1255
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:03,760
want to be.

1256
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:06,240
>> Can we do that or are we too close to

1257
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:07,359
Denver?

1258
01:08:07,359 --> 01:08:09,760
>> Hard to say. I think we have something

1259
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,280
like

1260
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,720
seven or eight in I in the state right

1261
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:18,960
now. There's only 270ish

1262
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:20,960
around the entire world.

1263
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:22,640
>> We could be so special guys.

1264
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:24,880
>> You guys could be sure [laughter] that

1265
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,359
there's a lot

1266
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:31,120
>> it's very dark website's not up to date.

1267
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:33,920
Frisco just became a dark sky community.

1268
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:36,560
>> Summer County was just passing all

1269
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:40,159
>> is one. Presto, Norwood, Nuckla, Snow

1270
01:08:40,159 --> 01:08:44,080
Mass, Peyonia, Ridgeway, and West Cliff

1271
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:46,400
are officially certified dark sky

1272
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:48,640
communities. Technically, downtown Aspen

1273
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,600
is not. It's old Snow Mass, but I think

1274
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,759
Aspen's I read something they're like

1275
01:08:53,759 --> 01:08:56,080
pushing forward. I guess it has a roof.

1276
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:57,759
>> And they had a lot of public meetings

1277
01:08:57,759 --> 01:08:59,839
and doing stuff on that for Summit

1278
01:08:59,839 --> 01:09:00,960
County, too.

1279
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,440
>> But I guess to Judy's point, these are

1280
01:09:03,440 --> 01:09:06,319
all quite far from the front range.

1281
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:07,120
So I don't

1282
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,679
>> So it might not be a thing.

1283
01:09:09,679 --> 01:09:12,560
>> Yeah. I'm just I'm not sure because

1284
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:16,480
everything that's in the state is like

1285
01:09:16,480 --> 01:09:19,600
west or south of Denver because they

1286
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,600
don't get the light pollution. Maria,

1287
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:23,440
who used to work for the city, the best

1288
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:25,839
and brightest fellow, she was a big

1289
01:09:25,839 --> 01:09:27,920
stargazer. So she had all these maps

1290
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:29,759
that showed like how much light

1291
01:09:29,759 --> 01:09:32,480
pollution was in different places. Ours

1292
01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:35,679
was not great, but you can still see the

1293
01:09:35,679 --> 01:09:37,199
constellations from

1294
01:09:37,199 --> 01:09:38,640
>> I was going to say I didn't think ours

1295
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:42,080
is that bad at all.

1296
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:43,839
>> Um, cool. Well, I mean, just throwing

1297
01:09:43,839 --> 01:09:45,839
that out there. If you ever we have a

1298
01:09:45,839 --> 01:09:47,679
community meeting and that's a question

1299
01:09:47,679 --> 01:09:48,960
that you feel like putting in there, I

1300
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:50,080
don't think, you know, will harm

1301
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:52,000
anybody. Um,

1302
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,080
>> yeah, that would be a good way of

1303
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,239
encouraging people to

1304
01:09:56,239 --> 01:09:58,480
>> change their lights, right? we're

1305
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:00,560
pushing for this and it can get us these

1306
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:01,520
accolades.

1307
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:02,960
>> Well, I think if they hear about it,

1308
01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:04,800
too, because especially when you look at

1309
01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:09,440
like these two the diagrams on it will

1310
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:11,520
make you go buy these instead of buying

1311
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,400
these. But you

1312
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:15,679
know,

1313
01:10:15,679 --> 01:10:19,600
>> I just bought two and I just looked it

1314
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:23,840
up and I'm within the loom and

1315
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:25,600
>> Okay. Does that answer?

1316
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,520
>> Yeah. And for the for the ramp up or

1317
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:33,280
like you know time limit

1318
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,360
>> discussion what I think I'll do is I'll

1319
01:10:35,360 --> 01:10:37,040
just put it in there you guys can see

1320
01:10:37,040 --> 01:10:38,640
what it looks like and then

1321
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:39,840
>> can always take it out

1322
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,480
>> and in the meantime talk to people ask

1323
01:10:42,480 --> 01:10:43,840
you know your neighbor what would they

1324
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:45,440
think if somebody did that or

1325
01:10:45,440 --> 01:10:47,600
>> just I'd rather just have it in there so

1326
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,280
you guys can see and then can always

1327
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:49,840
take it out

1328
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:51,360
>> but then we can see if there's any

1329
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,159
feedback on um see I'm the type I

1330
01:10:54,159 --> 01:10:55,520
wouldn't have a problem changing

1331
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,040
something to do it. But

1332
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:00,320
>> one other question I've got

1333
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:03,040
because it might affect me

1334
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:08,000
is if they built Soda Creek Highlands,

1335
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,360
all that light's got to come down.

1336
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:14,159
But we're all below that. They would

1337
01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:17,360
have to abide by what we have. And

1338
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:19,360
that's the part of the new construction

1339
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,920
you would want

1340
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:24,880
it the down shadow and it only can go so

1341
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:28,239
far only so far out. Yeah.

1342
01:11:28,239 --> 01:11:29,920
>> I mean shielded.

1343
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,600
>> That is a good

1344
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:32,159
>> example.

1345
01:11:32,159 --> 01:11:35,280
>> If they're too clo like if you had a lot

1346
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:37,280
here and then the next lot was like 100

1347
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:39,920
feet higher and it was only

1348
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:42,000
100 feet away. You'd probably still be

1349
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,960
able to look directly up at a shielded

1350
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,920
cut off fixture. But

1351
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:50,000
it would be less bright than if

1352
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:51,840
everything was just shining everywhere.

1353
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,159
So I don't know in your particular in

1354
01:11:54,159 --> 01:11:56,239
that exact example it would be quite

1355
01:11:56,239 --> 01:11:58,560
difficult to

1356
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:00,400
>> really solve for it but

1357
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,394
>> just get a slingshot

1358
01:12:02,394 --> 01:12:05,270
[laughter]

1359
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:06,960
» might

1360
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:07,920
>> yeah I mean there'd be

1361
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:09,120
>> simple answer

1362
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:11,920
>> there probably be some help but that

1363
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,560
might be like just a bad situation like

1364
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:17,520
just like the weird test case

1365
01:12:17,520 --> 01:12:19,280
>> well and I guess theme lights versus

1366
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:21,679
having like a maximum

1367
01:12:21,679 --> 01:12:24,239
you know, luminosity. I guess it's like

1368
01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:26,159
if you like there's a difference between

1369
01:12:26,159 --> 01:12:27,600
you see it a lot in the Midwest and

1370
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:29,199
suburban neighborhoods. People put

1371
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:31,120
candle lights on all of their eaves and

1372
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:32,719
there's like every three feet they have

1373
01:12:32,719 --> 01:12:35,520
a cand shines down. It's so bright even

1374
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:37,360
though each one individually is not that

1375
01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:39,760
much. Like there might be some way of

1376
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:41,679
saying like there's a maximum amount of

1377
01:12:41,679 --> 01:12:43,760
lighting per

1378
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:45,199
facade or something.

1379
01:12:45,199 --> 01:12:46,239
>> Yeah.

1380
01:12:46,239 --> 01:12:49,040
>> Or even if you're something in it might

1381
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,199
say something if your property is above

1382
01:12:51,199 --> 01:12:53,280
another

1383
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:56,560
the restrictions might be

1384
01:12:56,560 --> 01:12:59,600
>> sure. Yeah. But I mean, yeah, there's

1385
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:00,880
all kinds of ways you could deal with

1386
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:02,000
that because that could happen

1387
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,239
[clears throat] on any of the streets up

1388
01:13:04,239 --> 01:13:05,760
along there, too, right?

1389
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:07,679
>> Because you've got people downtown Wall

1390
01:13:07,679 --> 01:13:08,719
Street.

1391
01:13:08,719 --> 01:13:10,719
>> Yeah. I think folks folks can see

1392
01:13:10,719 --> 01:13:13,199
Montaigne, you know, from from parts of

1393
01:13:13,199 --> 01:13:16,239
town. Nobody has obnoxious lighting up

1394
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:18,880
there. But if someone want to install 10

1395
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:21,520
10,000 lu light bulbs tomorrow,

1396
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:23,040
>> hey, I keep trying to put them because

1397
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:26,236
of the dang animals.

1398
01:13:26,236 --> 01:13:27,360
[laughter]

1399
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:30,000
>> There's one window on montane that

1400
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:31,840
there's a certain time of the day that

1401
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,400
it just the light shut

1402
01:13:34,400 --> 01:13:35,280
in my house.

1403
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:36,960
>> That's the sun reflecting.

1404
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:40,870
>> Yeah, it is.

1405
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,470
» Watch it be mine. [laughter]

1406
01:13:44,480 --> 01:13:45,040
» All right. Right. Well,

1407
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,196
>> my windows aren't clean enough.

1408
01:13:47,196 --> 01:13:47,600
[clears throat]

1409
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:48,080
>> Okay,

1410
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:49,040
>> that all sounds good.

1411
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:50,960
>> That's a good direction.

1412
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:52,960
>> Yeah, I think so.

1413
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:56,320
>> All right. Um, this last one is we

1414
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:57,840
talked I don't know the middle of this

1415
01:13:57,840 --> 01:14:01,199
year, I guess, about

1416
01:14:01,199 --> 01:14:03,520
potentially changing some parking

1417
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:05,679
requirements because we had identified

1418
01:14:05,679 --> 01:14:07,679
some uses that seemed like really out of

1419
01:14:07,679 --> 01:14:12,400
whack. And so, and then after the um

1420
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:14,159
public hearings for the Carlson

1421
01:14:14,159 --> 01:14:16,400
redevelopment, there was some push from

1422
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:18,400
the community to look at it. And so, it

1423
01:14:18,400 --> 01:14:20,400
was just nice because I was already

1424
01:14:20,400 --> 01:14:23,360
looking at it. So, what I did is I took

1425
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,080
32 jurisdictions around the state. They

1426
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:28,880
kind of range in size. I I have Colorado

1427
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:30,800
Springs and Lammer County in there which

1428
01:14:30,800 --> 01:14:33,920
are big communities but the rest are

1429
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:37,199
like West Slope, Rocky Mountain Town

1430
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:40,159
communities that are pretty small. Um I

1431
01:14:40,159 --> 01:14:43,440
included the spreadsheet data in the

1432
01:14:43,440 --> 01:14:47,280
report and uh I also put together some

1433
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:52,719
like just general info um takeaways. And

1434
01:14:52,719 --> 01:14:57,120
so I think what I wanted to do uh

1435
01:14:57,120 --> 01:14:58,880
tonight is just share a bit of that. And

1436
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:02,640
just for anyone who's like online, I

1437
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,480
figured you know it's quite interesting

1438
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:06,000
when you look at the data because you've

1439
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,600
heard in the meeting like for

1440
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,400
residential like just not enough parking

1441
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,400
being provided like maybe they're

1442
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:13,840
meeting it or they're close to meeting

1443
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:15,679
it but like that's not enough anymore.

1444
01:15:15,679 --> 01:15:18,560
So, you look at the 32 jurisdictions

1445
01:15:18,560 --> 01:15:20,400
where

1446
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:22,400
we have a more complicated thing with

1447
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:24,560
these like two-bedroom units that are

1448
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:26,400
small versus two-bedroom units that are

1449
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:28,080
large, three-bedroom units that are

1450
01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:29,600
small, threebedroom units that are

1451
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:31,120
large. Like, they don't do that anywhere

1452
01:15:31,120 --> 01:15:33,280
else really. Like, it's kind of our own

1453
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:35,440
unique little thing.

1454
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:36,960
But when you look at most of the data,

1455
01:15:36,960 --> 01:15:39,760
like for town homes, the average is

1456
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:41,840
about two parking spaces per unit. For

1457
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,320
studio apartments, we're pretty much in

1458
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,880
line. For one bedrooms, we're pretty

1459
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,040
much in line.

1460
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:50,800
When you get to like twobedroom and

1461
01:15:50,800 --> 01:15:53,840
three bedrooms,

1462
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,560
we're maybe a little lower than the

1463
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:58,400
average across other jurisdictions, but

1464
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:00,080
it's pretty close. You know, like if

1465
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,920
you're building small units, then we're

1466
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:03,280
definitely low. If you're building

1467
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:05,120
larger units, then we're right on the

1468
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,080
money. And so,

1469
01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:10,560
um,

1470
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:12,400
>> which makes you sit there and think, why

1471
01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,080
does the square footage count? You're

1472
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:16,400
the who could you're based on your

1473
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,760
bedrooms, like you said. I think that's

1474
01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:20,159
>> Yeah.

1475
01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:24,159
>> too much. I think the uh idea the idea

1476
01:16:24,159 --> 01:16:26,239
of it is like you have two bedroom

1477
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:29,280
that's 750 square feet is less likely to

1478
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:30,948
be

1479
01:16:30,948 --> 01:16:32,400
[clears throat] shared by roommates or

1480
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:34,480
something like it doesn't I can't think

1481
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:36,320
of a good reason and we're there's

1482
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,480
really not other examples of people do

1483
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:42,080
it that way. So, one thing that I'd

1484
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:46,640
suggest is whatever we do, we just pick

1485
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:48,560
like a number for those and it doesn't

1486
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:50,480
matter the size of the two-bedroom unit.

1487
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:52,719
It's just

1488
01:16:52,719 --> 01:16:53,360
um

1489
01:16:53,360 --> 01:16:55,440
>> I would agree. Clean that up.

1490
01:16:55,440 --> 01:16:58,000
>> And same with three bedroomedroom plus

1491
01:16:58,000 --> 01:16:59,600
um

1492
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:02,800
the other thing that we don't have but

1493
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:04,880
other places do is they have a

1494
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:07,440
requirement for guest parking for

1495
01:17:07,440 --> 01:17:10,719
multifamily. So like if you have a 10

1496
01:17:10,719 --> 01:17:13,440
unit multif family, you have to provide

1497
01:17:13,440 --> 01:17:15,120
an additional

1498
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:17,520
two guest spaces or something across the

1499
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:19,760
whole development. Whereas the way our

1500
01:17:19,760 --> 01:17:22,800
code reads now is like guests are just

1501
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:25,840
lumped in with everything else.

1502
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,000
See, and I think when you have like

1503
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,159
apartment complexes, like let's say if

1504
01:17:30,159 --> 01:17:32,800
that was filled up over there, I think

1505
01:17:32,800 --> 01:17:34,800
that's where guest parking would be

1506
01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,199
important because you do you get family

1507
01:17:37,199 --> 01:17:39,600
that comes or somebody comes over,

1508
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,000
everybody's got an assigned parking spot

1509
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:45,280
and where does your friend park if they

1510
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:47,360
came over for dinner or something?

1511
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:49,840
>> I don't think that's out of the norm.

1512
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:51,120
>> And yeah, and I

1513
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:54,719
>> apartment complexes. I know like uh the

1514
01:17:54,719 --> 01:17:56,800
fieldhouse they're not doing assigned

1515
01:17:56,800 --> 01:17:59,600
parking spaces. It's just like oh you

1516
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,239
can park you like register your car

1517
01:18:02,239 --> 01:18:04,960
whatever you park wherever but you get a

1518
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:08,080
certain amount like number of permits or

1519
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,239
whatever but it's for anywhere. And so

1520
01:18:10,239 --> 01:18:13,120
if you're a guest you can there's space

1521
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:14,719
you can just park right?

1522
01:18:14,719 --> 01:18:18,320
>> There's not space you can't park. Uh but

1523
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:21,120
yeah, some places just specifically say

1524
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:23,760
you have to add guest parking. What you

1525
01:18:23,760 --> 01:18:26,480
could also do is just

1526
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:28,640
make the general parking minimum

1527
01:18:28,640 --> 01:18:30,320
slightly higher

1528
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:32,320
>> and then that with like say for a

1529
01:18:32,320 --> 01:18:34,640
two-bedroom unit, the average across all

1530
01:18:34,640 --> 01:18:37,040
these other places is 1.77. We could

1531
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:40,159
make it two spaces per twobedroom

1532
01:18:40,159 --> 01:18:43,600
and then the idea being like you have a

1533
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:45,360
few extra spaces. So,

1534
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:50,159
>> so using the fieldhouse as an example,

1535
01:18:50,159 --> 01:18:52,719
>> do they have the exact number of parking

1536
01:18:52,719 --> 01:18:55,679
spots that accommodate the onebedroom,

1537
01:18:55,679 --> 01:19:00,640
the twobedroom, the threebedroom? Did it get done that way? So, there

1538
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:02,719
isn't extra, but yet

1539
01:19:02,719 --> 01:19:05,040
>> they have a couple extra just because

1540
01:19:05,040 --> 01:19:07,360
they have the space. The idea being like

1541
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,360
depending on what commercial use they

1542
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:12,159
put in, they have the um

1543
01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:14,400
>> commercial uses as well.

1544
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:15,920
um

1545
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:17,920
they they have a few extra spaces to

1546
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:20,800
accommodate that but without the

1547
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:22,000
commercial space they probably would

1548
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:27,440
have hit it exactly and um

1549
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:29,280
it probably makes more difference as you

1550
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:32,320
get bigger units right like a onebedroom

1551
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:35,600
acquiring 1.5 spaces for one bedroom

1552
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,880
which is what we already do

1553
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:40,880
probably is enough to say well some will

1554
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:42,719
be shared by a couple some will be just

1555
01:19:42,719 --> 01:19:45,520
a single person. You don't have to

1556
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:49,750
increase it. I think the

1557
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,870
um

1558
01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,520
so I think for tonight like we're not

1559
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,880
deciding anything of course. So I think

1560
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:03,910
if there's any uh

1561
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:06,960
suggestions of further research I guess

1562
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:08,719
like does the idea of guest parking

1563
01:20:08,719 --> 01:20:12,560
sound pretty good? Sounds like requiring

1564
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:14,080
just changing two-bedroom and

1565
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:16,080
threebedroom to being just a single

1566
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:18,480
standard regardless of size is probably

1567
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:22,480
good. Is there any thoughts on what?

1568
01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:25,120
>> Okay. So, the other thing that threw up

1569
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,880
a red flag to me on this is Riverbend.

1570
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:30,480
So, if anything, you know, you hear

1571
01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:31,679
people saying, "Okay, we don't have

1572
01:20:31,679 --> 01:20:33,520
enough parking and then we made our

1573
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:38,320
parking spots smaller, blah, blah." which seems like we're pretty

1574
01:20:38,320 --> 01:20:41,120
close and spot on from what the averages

1575
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:43,679
have come out to. I was surprised when I

1576
01:20:43,679 --> 01:20:46,960
saw how close we are for it always being

1577
01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:49,679
a topic of discussion with everything.

1578
01:20:49,679 --> 01:20:51,360
>> The thing that caught my attention

1579
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:53,520
though is with Riverbend, we let them go

1580
01:20:53,520 --> 01:20:56,800
down to that small number because we

1581
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,760
used the

1582
01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:02,880
excuse that they had parking on Colorado

1583
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:05,760
Boulevard. they now it's now paid

1584
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:09,040
parking. So, how does that should really

1585
01:21:09,040 --> 01:21:13,520
affect this is not having enough parking

1586
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,000
>> because at the point at that at the time

1587
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:18,000
we weren't ever thinking that we were

1588
01:21:18,000 --> 01:21:19,440
going to get paid parking down there.

1589
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:21,679
Well, and they're residents, so they can

1590
01:21:21,679 --> 01:21:25,040
park in paid parking, you know, because

1591
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:27,520
they have residential permit, right? But

1592
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:29,760
they'd be competing against during the

1593
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:30,400
day.

1594
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,960
>> Like they come home and it's a Saturday

1595
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,040
afternoon, they have nowhere to park

1596
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:36,080
because Right.

1597
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:36,480
>> Yeah.

1598
01:21:36,480 --> 01:21:37,360
>> Well, it's like

1599
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:38,800
>> I don't know. It's just something that I

1600
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:41,120
noticed that it kind of looking back, we

1601
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:43,520
shouldn't have let it be that low of a

1602
01:21:43,520 --> 01:21:44,159
number, I guess.

1603
01:21:44,159 --> 01:21:48,239
>> Right. But it is interesting because

1604
01:21:48,239 --> 01:21:50,560
not there's not a ton of places in the

1605
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,360
state that are doing affordable housing

1606
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:55,120
specific,

1607
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:59,120
but a lot of places

1608
01:21:59,120 --> 01:22:02,000
around the country are doing research on

1609
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:05,760
affordable units and

1610
01:22:05,760 --> 01:22:08,719
allowing fewer parking spaces per

1611
01:22:08,719 --> 01:22:11,360
bedroom for affordable and for senior

1612
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:14,000
housing. like the data like Alamosa for

1613
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:17,840
example if you're doing a unit at 80% of

1614
01:22:17,840 --> 01:22:20,560
median income or less they only require

1615
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:22,960
half a parking space per studio or one

1616
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:25,199
bedroom and one parking space for two

1617
01:22:25,199 --> 01:22:28,080
bedrooms and so like that's pretty

1618
01:22:28,080 --> 01:22:30,560
radically different to say we're going

1619
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,760
to really lower it the data which the

1620
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,239
data I have is from like Los Angeles

1621
01:22:36,239 --> 01:22:39,120
County was the big study that they did

1622
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,120
on affordable housing but it does show

1623
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:43,520
that On average, affordable housing is

1624
01:22:43,520 --> 01:22:46,080
only really requires

1625
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:50,480
about 30% fewer parking spaces demand

1626
01:22:50,480 --> 01:22:51,600
compared to market

1627
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:53,120
>> that much smaller.

1628
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,679
>> But [clears throat] then why did we turn

1629
01:22:55,679 --> 01:22:57,440
around and like on the gold rush

1630
01:22:57,440 --> 01:23:01,120
apartments 1.75 spaces

1631
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:02,800
>> well a unit that's

1632
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:05,120
>> and we didn't require that. It's just

1633
01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:06,480
what they ultimately

1634
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:08,239
>> Oh, okay. I thought this is what we

1635
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:10,159
required. No, these are just what they

1636
01:23:10,159 --> 01:23:11,040
actually have

1637
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:13,040
>> came out at which are the Aspen Leaf.

1638
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:15,040
>> So like Aspen Leaf which is down on the

1639
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:16,560
west end

1640
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:18,080
>> like

1641
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:19,760
it's quite old

1642
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:21,760
>> and I so I went and I counted the number

1643
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:23,520
of doors and counted the number of

1644
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,600
parking spaces and that's where it

1645
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,120
worked out too which is why I put

1646
01:23:27,120 --> 01:23:29,760
approximately because I don't have their

1647
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:30,560
plans.

1648
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:31,040
>> Okay,

1649
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:33,280
>> because it predates that. the big horn.

1650
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:36,400
I also did the same thing and big horn

1651
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:38,480
has quite a lot and I just happen to

1652
01:23:38,480 --> 01:23:40,320
know

1653
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:41,679
>> I know he's a keeper.

1654
01:23:41,679 --> 01:23:44,159
>> He does. You do your work. I love it.

1655
01:23:44,159 --> 01:23:47,520
>> So So anyway, it's quite a big range. If

1656
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:49,440
you go to Big Horn, there's never

1657
01:23:49,440 --> 01:23:52,320
issues. You can tell at 1.8 at Aspen

1658
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,040
Leaf, like you can sometimes it does get

1659
01:23:55,040 --> 01:23:56,560
pretty tight down there, but there's so

1660
01:23:56,560 --> 01:23:59,040
much additional street parking that I

1661
01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:00,880
don't think anyone ever throws a fit

1662
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:02,159
about it. Yeah.

1663
01:24:02,159 --> 01:24:06,480
>> Um my suggestion is that don't change

1664
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:09,440
parking minimums for affordable housing.

1665
01:24:09,440 --> 01:24:11,520
Like we just whatever it is for market

1666
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:14,719
rate, we just keep you know like at the

1667
01:24:14,719 --> 01:24:18,480
bottom of the residential bid. I just

1668
01:24:18,480 --> 01:24:20,080
what it could be, you know, it's on like

1669
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:23,040
page three of the five page item, you

1670
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:24,719
know, it's single family detached two

1671
01:24:24,719 --> 01:24:27,199
units, single family attached. You just

1672
01:24:27,199 --> 01:24:30,480
simplify it. Two units studio 1.25. that

1673
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:32,239
already is what's there. One bedroom

1674
01:24:32,239 --> 01:24:34,560
that's what's there. Two bedroom, three

1675
01:24:34,560 --> 01:24:37,120
plus bedroom, it's kind of this range

1676
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:41,440
and eventually we have to decide what's

1677
01:24:41,440 --> 01:24:43,600
the you know for two bedroom it might be

1678
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:45,520
two per unit. For threebedroom it might

1679
01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:47,600
be 2.5 per unit

1680
01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:50,400
>> and take out that square footage stuff.

1681
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:54,080
>> Right. Right. But

1682
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:57,199
so then for senior, we had talked before

1683
01:24:57,199 --> 01:25:00,000
about actually reducing that to just one

1684
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,639
space per unit because we see even less

1685
01:25:02,639 --> 01:25:04,639
than one space per unit at the existing

1686
01:25:04,639 --> 01:25:07,920
places and it already works pretty well.

1687
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:10,480
That was talked about like in June or

1688
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:12,400
something. I don't know if we still have

1689
01:25:12,400 --> 01:25:14,800
thoughts on that. But I guess my

1690
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,600
direction on this one is are there any

1691
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:20,000
specifics that stand out on how how

1692
01:25:20,000 --> 01:25:21,679
planning commission would want to

1693
01:25:21,679 --> 01:25:23,840
proceed

1694
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:27,030
residential?

1695
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:30,800
I to me the residential seems like we're

1696
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:33,840
kind of right on

1697
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:37,440
point except for cleaning it up. I mean

1698
01:25:37,440 --> 01:25:39,600
and you talk about uh getting rid of the

1699
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,000
square footage. Yeah, it's whether you

1700
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:43,840
have a onebedroom, twobedroom,

1701
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:45,679
threebedroom

1702
01:25:45,679 --> 01:25:49,440
compared to square footage because

1703
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:51,280
it's how many people are living there. I

1704
01:25:51,280 --> 01:25:52,560
mean, you don't want to get into how

1705
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:54,960
many people are living there.

1706
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:56,480
>> If you have a threebedroom, you're just

1707
01:25:56,480 --> 01:26:01,520
kind of assuming three drivers or

1708
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:02,239
>> Yeah.

1709
01:26:02,239 --> 01:26:02,800
>> You know,

1710
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,280
>> right? Well, like based on how our

1711
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:06,960
current code is written, my thought

1712
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:10,480
would be my thought would be personally

1713
01:26:10,480 --> 01:26:12,880
we just go with the bigger number that's

1714
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:15,440
already in the code. So twobedroom

1715
01:26:15,440 --> 01:26:17,520
becomes 1.75

1716
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,639
per twobedroom. Threebedroom becomes 2.5

1717
01:26:20,639 --> 01:26:22,239
per threebedroom.

1718
01:26:22,239 --> 01:26:23,920
>> But I'm wonder because then that pretty

1719
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:25,840
much matches. In fact, that would make

1720
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:27,360
three bedrooms

1721
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:30,400
>> more than the average. But I don't know

1722
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:32,400
whether like for two bedrooms it makes

1723
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:34,560
more sense to just make it like one

1724
01:26:34,560 --> 01:26:37,120
space per unit, one per bedroom and make

1725
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:39,600
it two

1726
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:41,280
>> instead of 1.75,

1727
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:42,719
>> right?

1728
01:26:42,719 --> 01:26:47,840
>> You know, if if you had a 50 unit

1729
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:49,920
complex, that would be a difference of

1730
01:26:49,920 --> 01:26:53,860
like 12 parking spaces.

1731
01:26:53,860 --> 01:26:54,960
[clears throat]

1732
01:26:54,960 --> 01:26:58,239
And we do have the option of like the uh

1733
01:26:58,239 --> 01:27:00,159
the fee loop, right?

1734
01:27:00,159 --> 01:27:03,280
>> For the downtown area,

1735
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:04,960
>> it doesn't currently apply to like the

1736
01:27:04,960 --> 01:27:06,480
east end or the west end.

1737
01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:08,960
>> You also have the ability to submit like

1738
01:27:08,960 --> 01:27:11,520
a detailed parking study if you disagree

1739
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:13,600
with our table

1740
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:15,520
>> and then we would assess whether it's

1741
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:16,400
reasonable

1742
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:18,320
>> and that's what we did with Riverbend.

1743
01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:23,430
We let them come to us with

1744
01:27:23,440 --> 01:27:25,280
» which at the time made sense. I mean it

1745
01:27:25,280 --> 01:27:27,600
still does. I don't I've not heard of

1746
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:29,360
anybody's complaining about

1747
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:30,960
>> all the times I've been down there.

1748
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:33,920
There's all those parking underneath.

1749
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:36,400
>> Is there

1750
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:38,639
never really looked?

1751
01:27:38,639 --> 01:27:39,360
Yeah.

1752
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:40,480
>> Yeah. So people don't [clears throat]

1753
01:27:40,480 --> 01:27:43,040
even bother driving in there. They just

1754
01:27:43,040 --> 01:27:44,960
>> drive through the park out next to the

1755
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:45,920
river.

1756
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,560
>> Yeah. Right. I never see any I never see

1757
01:27:48,560 --> 01:27:50,639
overnight people parking.

1758
01:27:50,639 --> 01:27:51,199
>> No.

1759
01:27:51,199 --> 01:27:53,520
>> On the street either

1760
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:55,520
>> other than the guy with the beat up

1761
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:57,199
trailers.

1762
01:27:57,199 --> 01:28:00,480
>> True. That's true.

1763
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:02,080
>> Which he probably couldn't get down

1764
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:03,840
underneath,

1765
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:05,600
>> but still.

1766
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:06,960
>> And he live there.

1767
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:08,080
>> I don't know.

1768
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:09,840
>> It changes time to

1769
01:28:09,840 --> 01:28:11,199
>> Okay. So, it sounds like you've got

1770
01:28:11,199 --> 01:28:13,040
direction on that part. Did you want any

1771
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:14,480
other comments on some of the other

1772
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:16,800
parts? I

1773
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,679
>> yeah so for commercial I think it's a

1774
01:28:19,679 --> 01:28:21,360
little more interesting there's only a

1775
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:23,679
few things that I thought are sort of

1776
01:28:23,679 --> 01:28:26,800
off the averages from other communities

1777
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:28,880
so really interesting rafting

1778
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:29,920
headquarters

1779
01:28:29,920 --> 01:28:32,080
>> I got it all

1780
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:35,360
>> they there's only two play one place

1781
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:37,520
besides this in the whole state that I

1782
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:39,840
could find because I spread the search

1783
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,239
beyond the 32 for rafting specifically

1784
01:28:42,239 --> 01:28:45,760
because I could only find one and they

1785
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,760
require one parking space per 200 f feet

1786
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:50,159
of floor area. We require one space per

1787
01:28:50,159 --> 01:28:54,800
400 ft of floor area. But um

1788
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:56,719
I think it's funny that we call out

1789
01:28:56,719 --> 01:28:58,560
rafting headquarters but not like

1790
01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:00,960
outfitting headquarters in general. Like

1791
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:04,159
it could be also via and ziplining and

1792
01:29:04,159 --> 01:29:07,679
mountain bike tours. And what um I've

1793
01:29:07,679 --> 01:29:10,159
seen elsewhere in the country is they

1794
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:13,040
say like one space per 400 square feet

1795
01:29:13,040 --> 01:29:16,719
plus like one space per employee or one

1796
01:29:16,719 --> 01:29:18,880
space per number of certain number of

1797
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:23,199
guests and then that gets at like

1798
01:29:23,199 --> 01:29:26,080
the the issue that I had with rafting

1799
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:27,679
headquarters is that like some of these

1800
01:29:27,679 --> 01:29:29,440
buildings are like 600 square feet. They

1801
01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:31,360
only have to combine two spaces. Like

1802
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:33,920
that's fine for what we have now mostly,

1803
01:29:33,920 --> 01:29:34,800
but

1804
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:36,159
>> someone else came in and said, "We're

1805
01:29:36,159 --> 01:29:40,080
doing a zipline tour and we only have a

1806
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:41,840
400 foot building. We only need one

1807
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:43,360
parking space." That doesn't even cover

1808
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:44,239
their employees.

1809
01:29:44,239 --> 01:29:44,719
>> No.

1810
01:29:44,719 --> 01:29:45,760
>> So,

1811
01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:48,960
>> I think we need to

1812
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,679
make that better and include the other

1813
01:29:51,679 --> 01:29:53,280
businesses because you never know if

1814
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:56,560
you're going to get one in town. But

1815
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:59,360
when you think about it, so they the

1816
01:29:59,360 --> 01:30:01,840
rafters that come in, they're taking up

1817
01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:04,080
a lot of parking spots if they don't

1818
01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:06,560
have I mean the difference property over

1819
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:08,719
here, they can pull in and park there.

1820
01:30:08,719 --> 01:30:11,120
But then even using that as an example,

1821
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:12,800
they've got so much other stuff out

1822
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:15,440
there now that that's taken up parking

1823
01:30:15,440 --> 01:30:17,040
where a person might pull in there and

1824
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:18,800
not even park there and park on the

1825
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:20,187
street instead.

1826
01:30:20,187 --> 01:30:20,239
>> [clears throat]

1827
01:30:20,239 --> 01:30:22,239
>> And it's kind of a disservice to the

1828
01:30:22,239 --> 01:30:24,960
rest of the businesses in town that with

1829
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:26,880
people looking for parking.

1830
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:29,600
>> Well, and they're gone for hours.

1831
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:30,400
>> Yeah.

1832
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,199
>> You know, it's not it's not like they're

1833
01:30:33,199 --> 01:30:35,360
shopping and they're parked there for an

1834
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:37,920
hour or having lunch or something and

1835
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:40,719
park there for an hour there

1836
01:30:40,719 --> 01:30:42,320
for three, four. I don't

1837
01:30:42,320 --> 01:30:44,560
>> It's not like we have that many places

1838
01:30:44,560 --> 01:30:46,639
that another rafting company can come

1839
01:30:46,639 --> 01:30:48,560
in. It'd probably be more effective in

1840
01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:50,159
the east end.

1841
01:30:50,159 --> 01:30:52,159
But

1842
01:30:52,159 --> 01:30:55,199
yeah, they should provide it on site,

1843
01:30:55,199 --> 01:30:55,679
>> right?

1844
01:30:55,679 --> 01:30:57,440
>> Um,

1845
01:30:57,440 --> 01:30:58,800
with the modifications that we're

1846
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:01,440
seeking, uh, this would also be kind of

1847
01:31:01,440 --> 01:31:03,679
for new.

1848
01:31:03,679 --> 01:31:05,760
>> Yeah. The way our codes are written now

1849
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:09,120
is if you have an existing business and

1850
01:31:09,120 --> 01:31:11,199
keep the business license, whatever, you

1851
01:31:11,199 --> 01:31:15,040
don't have to provide.

1852
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:18,719
So like for example Bojo which but all

1853
01:31:18,719 --> 01:31:20,239
the big restaurants downtown they

1854
01:31:20,239 --> 01:31:22,560
predate 2018 when parking came in. So

1855
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,520
like Bojo doesn't have any off streetet

1856
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,440
parking of their own except for a few

1857
01:31:27,440 --> 01:31:29,199
places at the Robert's brother's garage

1858
01:31:29,199 --> 01:31:31,120
and they

1859
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:33,120
generate quite a lot of traffic but they

1860
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:34,719
don't have to do a foo or anything

1861
01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:36,480
because they're an existing business. So

1862
01:31:36,480 --> 01:31:38,480
like the existing rafting headquarters

1863
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:40,239
don't really have to change

1864
01:31:40,239 --> 01:31:41,920
>> but if someone else comes in or they

1865
01:31:41,920 --> 01:31:45,760
expand the operation to a new place

1866
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,400
and same with any other outfitter which

1867
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:49,600
I think we should have

1868
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:52,159
>> and then enforce the land use what

1869
01:31:52,159 --> 01:31:53,920
they're using the land for too

1870
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:56,000
>> right and so maybe there's another code

1871
01:31:56,000 --> 01:31:58,880
amendment about storage that eventually

1872
01:31:58,880 --> 01:31:59,840
needs to come.

1873
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:02,000
>> Yes.

1874
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:04,239
I don't I'm just going to add it to my

1875
01:32:04,239 --> 01:32:06,320
list of potential code amendments to

1876
01:32:06,320 --> 01:32:10,800
start working on um storage.

1877
01:32:10,800 --> 01:32:14,320
>> So I think it should be one space per

1878
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:17,280
whether it's the 200 or square or 200 or

1879
01:32:17,280 --> 01:32:20,719
400 but it also it should include their

1880
01:32:20,719 --> 01:32:21,840
employees too.

1881
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:22,320
>> Sure.

1882
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:23,040
>> Absolutely.

1883
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:24,639
>> Do you think it makes more sense for it

1884
01:32:24,639 --> 01:32:27,600
to be based on employees or based on

1885
01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:28,880
guests?

1886
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:30,639
>> I think employees.

1887
01:32:30,639 --> 01:32:32,159
>> All right. I was thinking employees

1888
01:32:32,159 --> 01:32:34,960
because they will have enough employees

1889
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:36,719
they can serve all the guests they get.

1890
01:32:36,719 --> 01:32:37,920
So if they get less guests they will

1891
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:38,880
have less employees. They have more

1892
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:41,760
guests they'll have more employees,

1893
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:42,719
>> you know.

1894
01:32:42,719 --> 01:32:45,600
>> I want something they can control on

1895
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:46,639
both.

1896
01:32:46,639 --> 01:32:48,639
>> I mean I think the square footage of the

1897
01:32:48,639 --> 01:32:49,920
building is silly.

1898
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:51,040
>> I I

1899
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:52,880
>> Yeah. I suppose it could be like one

1900
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,040
space per employee plus one space per

1901
01:32:55,040 --> 01:32:57,120
three guests or four guests or whatever

1902
01:32:57,120 --> 01:32:58,880
and just eliminate the square footage

1903
01:32:58,880 --> 01:32:59,840
alto together.

1904
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:03,120
>> No. But how do you know how many guests

1905
01:33:03,120 --> 01:33:05,760
because they have a maximum limit of

1906
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:08,000
guests in the building per the building

1907
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:10,320
code. How do you know how many guests

1908
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:11,760
can be in them?

1909
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:13,760
>> And they also have like they have trips

1910
01:33:13,760 --> 01:33:17,199
at 8 n 10. So it's not like a whole

1911
01:33:17,199 --> 01:33:20,080
>> I guess it would be like in their zoning

1912
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:22,639
application they would put

1913
01:33:22,639 --> 01:33:24,480
>> you can have 10 people in your building.

1914
01:33:24,480 --> 01:33:27,440
So they'd have to have 10

1915
01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:29,920
>> say one spot for every three people. So

1916
01:33:29,920 --> 01:33:31,920
they'd have to have three spots

1917
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:32,960
>> plus

1918
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:34,880
>> you have two employees so they'd have to

1919
01:33:34,880 --> 01:33:36,480
have five spots. Yeah,

1920
01:33:36,480 --> 01:33:38,800
>> maybe you do like

1921
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:41,199
at this time when you're establishing

1922
01:33:41,199 --> 01:33:43,199
your business to get a business license,

1923
01:33:43,199 --> 01:33:44,880
you're saying

1924
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:46,719
>> and this would be for outfitters. They

1925
01:33:46,719 --> 01:33:48,320
check a box or something like we're

1926
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:51,040
outfitter and we say what's your at peak

1927
01:33:51,040 --> 01:33:54,719
time, how many guests do you anticipate

1928
01:33:54,719 --> 01:33:56,960
and how many employees do you anticipate

1929
01:33:56,960 --> 01:33:59,040
and we then would take the calculation

1930
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:02,880
based on their estimated peak. But that

1931
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:05,040
makes it tough because

1932
01:34:05,040 --> 01:34:06,639
>> they don't know.

1933
01:34:06,639 --> 01:34:09,440
>> What about their capacity

1934
01:34:09,440 --> 01:34:12,080
>> like of the building

1935
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:13,760
capacity? Yeah. Like here we can only

1936
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:16,159
have seven so 70 people like if they're

1937
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:18,320
build you know it kind of kind of takes

1938
01:34:18,320 --> 01:34:20,800
in account the square footage without

1939
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:23,520
making that the one but based on that

1940
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:25,920
you know how big they're

1941
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:26,639
like

1942
01:34:26,639 --> 01:34:29,440
>> if I only had a 400 square foot

1943
01:34:29,440 --> 01:34:32,000
headquarters like only

1944
01:34:32,000 --> 01:34:33,679
Six people could be inside the building

1945
01:34:33,679 --> 01:34:37,520
at a time, but if I just do my little

1946
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:40,080
>> spiel outside,

1947
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:42,400
>> then you could still have 50 people go

1948
01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:44,639
on a tour cuz like they have a whole

1949
01:34:44,639 --> 01:34:48,880
>> inside and outside based on on the

1950
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:51,679
number of wraps that they intend to put

1951
01:34:51,679 --> 01:34:55,120
in the water every day,

1952
01:34:55,120 --> 01:34:56,000
>> right?

1953
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:57,840
>> And the wraps hold what

1954
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,560
>> I could see, right? people with them or

1955
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:02,320
>> I mean they must have a business plan

1956
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:04,960
that says what they need to be able to

1957
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:06,719
>> but then like if you start off and

1958
01:35:06,719 --> 01:35:08,880
you're just a little guy and then five

1959
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:10,560
years from now now you've gone from two

1960
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:12,719
rafts to 20 rafts you still only have

1961
01:35:12,719 --> 01:35:15,199
your

1962
01:35:15,199 --> 01:35:17,440
>> guess that's a good problem

1963
01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:18,880
>> and you're going to want to embellish

1964
01:35:18,880 --> 01:35:22,480
your numbers for your business plan but

1965
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:25,360
you're going to want to lower that

1966
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:29,360
number to have your business in

1967
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:33,360
because you can't do the parking.

1968
01:35:33,360 --> 01:35:35,199
>> Um, you said that you checked other

1969
01:35:35,199 --> 01:35:38,000
outfitters besides rafting.

1970
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:40,719
>> I think if we're doing

1971
01:35:40,719 --> 01:35:41,679
like

1972
01:35:41,679 --> 01:35:42,880
>> include all of them.

1973
01:35:42,880 --> 01:35:44,719
>> I was thinking instead of just being

1974
01:35:44,719 --> 01:35:46,719
rafting headquarters, it would be like

1975
01:35:46,719 --> 01:35:48,880
outfitting or guiding headquarters and

1976
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:51,520
then it could be like rafting, ATVs, zip

1977
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:54,709
lines.

1978
01:35:54,719 --> 01:35:56,480
» You go there, you pay for the service,

1979
01:35:56,480 --> 01:35:58,080
but they take you somewhere else. So,

1980
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:00,000
it's kind of the same thing.

1981
01:36:00,000 --> 01:36:00,320
>> Yeah.

1982
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:00,960
>> Um

1983
01:36:00,960 --> 01:36:03,920
>> because right now we only have rafting

1984
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:05,920
headquarters.

1985
01:36:05,920 --> 01:36:09,199
>> And um so if someone came in and said,

1986
01:36:09,199 --> 01:36:10,960
"Hey, I'm doing mountain bike tours."

1987
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:13,199
We'd have to just call it like a retail

1988
01:36:13,199 --> 01:36:15,120
or office or something like we couldn't

1989
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:16,560
call a mountain bike headquarter the

1990
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:18,880
rafting headquarters. So if if we're

1991
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:21,280
changing it anyway, we might as well

1992
01:36:21,280 --> 01:36:21,679
change.

1993
01:36:21,679 --> 01:36:24,320
>> I personally think that's the way to go.

1994
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:26,480
And then we're not singling out one

1995
01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:28,080
group of guides either.

1996
01:36:28,080 --> 01:36:29,360
>> Yeah. And we don't have to keep adding

1997
01:36:29,360 --> 01:36:32,480
more things for specific things. Um my

1998
01:36:32,480 --> 01:36:34,639
uh I was asking if you have checked all

1999
01:36:34,639 --> 01:36:36,560
our fitters because I was thinking if I

2000
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:40,080
was wondering if any of them

2001
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:42,560
have their the calculations they

2002
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:44,080
calculate them differently and we can

2003
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:45,840
get some ideas.

2004
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:47,760
>> Be struggling.

2005
01:36:47,760 --> 01:36:50,639
>> Yeah. I can look up like are there not

2006
01:36:50,639 --> 01:36:52,560
specifically rafting outfitters but just

2007
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:54,480
like the guiding operations what are

2008
01:36:54,480 --> 01:36:55,600
those parking requirements

2009
01:36:55,600 --> 01:36:56,400
>> exactly

2010
01:36:56,400 --> 01:37:00,159
>> and then bring that that back.

2011
01:37:00,159 --> 01:37:02,159
>> Um

2012
01:37:02,159 --> 01:37:04,080
okay great well it sounds like

2013
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:06,000
everyone's on the same page that we

2014
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:08,320
could tweak it a little and better

2015
01:37:08,320 --> 01:37:11,440
capture the amount. Um the other one the

2016
01:37:11,440 --> 01:37:14,560
second one there's only four. So, the

2017
01:37:14,560 --> 01:37:16,560
second one is theaters, event center,

2018
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:18,159
music venue, those sorts of things.

2019
01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:19,840
Right now, it says one space for four

2020
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:23,360
theater seats. Um, that's actually a

2021
01:37:23,360 --> 01:37:24,880
pretty similar amount to what we see

2022
01:37:24,880 --> 01:37:27,199
everywhere else, but almost everywhere,

2023
01:37:27,199 --> 01:37:29,199
like I think we should just change it to

2024
01:37:29,199 --> 01:37:31,182
per four occupants because

2025
01:37:31,182 --> 01:37:32,639
[clears throat] not every theater will

2026
01:37:32,639 --> 01:37:34,239
have seats,

2027
01:37:34,239 --> 01:37:34,800
>> right?

2028
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:37,360
>> And so, like right now, well, I've run

2029
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:39,280
into this. Someone comes and says, "Hey,

2030
01:37:39,280 --> 01:37:40,480
I want to do a theater." And I'm like,

2031
01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:42,400
"Great. You have what's your max

2032
01:37:42,400 --> 01:37:44,480
occupancy?" like 100 and you say, "Okay,

2033
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:46,000
25 spaces." And they say, "Well, I don't

2034
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:47,600
have any seats. It's just standing room

2035
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:49,920
only. So, it should just be eight

2036
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:52,239
because it's only 2,000 square feet or

2037
01:37:52,239 --> 01:37:54,320
whatever." So, if we said one per four

2038
01:37:54,320 --> 01:37:56,639
occupants or three occupants or

2039
01:37:56,639 --> 01:37:57,679
whatever,

2040
01:37:57,679 --> 01:38:01,440
>> then that can't argue with anymore. So,

2041
01:38:01,440 --> 01:38:03,932
that'd be a pretty easy change, I think.

2042
01:38:03,932 --> 01:38:05,242
[laughter]

2043
01:38:05,242 --> 01:38:06,000
[clears throat] So,

2044
01:38:06,000 --> 01:38:09,040
>> what happens with the United Senate?

2045
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:11,679
>> They have no parking. Well, but they'd

2046
01:38:11,679 --> 01:38:14,239
be they're sort of existing that's like

2047
01:38:14,239 --> 01:38:16,480
grandfathered in. But if we had a new

2048
01:38:16,480 --> 01:38:18,080
United Center,

2049
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:22,000
>> we'd have to do it based on like

2050
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:23,440
>> I don't know how many people can fit on

2051
01:38:23,440 --> 01:38:25,548
a pew, I guess, right? Quite a

2052
01:38:25,548 --> 01:38:28,239
[laughter] few. Yeah. So, I'm not I'm

2053
01:38:28,239 --> 01:38:29,760
not sure. But yeah, when you look

2054
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:32,800
around, most of them are like

2055
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:34,960
when they say one per number of seats,

2056
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:38,159
it's like pretty commonly

2057
01:38:38,159 --> 01:38:40,159
um

2058
01:38:40,159 --> 01:38:42,960
one per three or one per per four seats.

2059
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:44,719
So

2060
01:38:44,719 --> 01:38:47,280
seems like it probably covers it. Okay.

2061
01:38:47,280 --> 01:38:50,639
Um the next one is daycarees.

2062
01:38:50,639 --> 01:38:52,400
>> You know, the way we say it in the ski

2063
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:55,600
industry is one seat, one heartbeat.

2064
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:57,760
Like people getting on chairs and stuff.

2065
01:38:57,760 --> 01:38:59,440
Yep. So,

2066
01:38:59,440 --> 01:39:00,480
>> yeah. So, I mean

2067
01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:03,538
>> people try everything,

2068
01:39:03,538 --> 01:39:04,320
[clears throat]

2069
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:06,960
>> right? Well, okay. So, the other one is

2070
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:09,440
daycare. We don't have a standard for

2071
01:39:09,440 --> 01:39:11,199
daycarees right now, so I probably would

2072
01:39:11,199 --> 01:39:13,760
just use like office use or something.

2073
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:15,920
Um,

2074
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:17,600
but what a lot of places do is they do

2075
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,320
like one space per

2076
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:22,159
like number of children or number of

2077
01:39:22,159 --> 01:39:25,040
employees. So, like some places do one

2078
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:26,960
space for 10 children, one space for

2079
01:39:26,960 --> 01:39:29,119
eight children. Few other places just

2080
01:39:29,119 --> 01:39:32,719
say like one space per employee for

2081
01:39:32,719 --> 01:39:35,520
who cares. I could also just make it

2082
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:38,159
like one for 300 to match office uses,

2083
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:40,960
but it seems wise to create one because

2084
01:39:40,960 --> 01:39:43,119
I know the county is pushing pretty hard

2085
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:46,080
for daycare. It's like a big need and

2086
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:48,239
people are establishing it in existing

2087
01:39:48,239 --> 01:39:49,840
neighborhoods who want to make sure it's

2088
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:53,760
not affecting. But the daycare people

2089
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:57,040
just drop their kids off and go away for

2090
01:39:57,040 --> 01:39:59,679
the rest of the day. I mean, the parents

2091
01:39:59,679 --> 01:40:04,239
>> and I think um the new rule for teachers

2092
01:40:04,239 --> 01:40:05,920
is

2093
01:40:05,920 --> 01:40:10,320
one teacher per eight students for uh

2094
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:14,320
daycare of preschool. So one per eight

2095
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:15,199
number

2096
01:40:15,199 --> 01:40:16,960
>> like one space for eight children

2097
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:17,920
>> something like that.

2098
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:22,639
>> Yeah. For for reference, our school

2099
01:40:22,639 --> 01:40:24,400
requirements

2100
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:29,669
is one space per

2101
01:40:29,679 --> 01:40:32,880
1.5 spaces per classroom plus one space

2102
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:37,830
per five seats in an auditorium

2103
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:40,560
» football or basketball games and things

2104
01:40:40,560 --> 01:40:41,440
like that.

2105
01:40:41,440 --> 01:40:44,960
>> Right? So that's an I mean and I don't

2106
01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:46,159
know how many people fit in the

2107
01:40:46,159 --> 01:40:48,480
classroom, but if our what's our average

2108
01:40:48,480 --> 01:40:51,520
like student teacher ratio? Is it like

2109
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:53,760
under one and 20?

2110
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:54,320
>> Yeah,

2111
01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:55,760
>> because if it's like one to 20, then

2112
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:57,920
that would still be eight. One per eight

2113
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,080
students.

2114
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:01,920
>> So they're very little classrooms right

2115
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:03,600
now. But yeah,

2116
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,639
>> 20 I think is the biggest.

2117
01:41:06,639 --> 01:41:10,400
>> Yeah. So So one space per eight. But if

2118
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:12,159
you know that that's the thing, the one

2119
01:41:12,159 --> 01:41:14,400
to eight would be the way to do it then.

2120
01:41:14,400 --> 01:41:16,000
>> But as soon as you have one more kid, if

2121
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:17,440
you have nine kids, then you need an

2122
01:41:17,440 --> 01:41:18,800
assistant.

2123
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:21,280
>> So, they want to keep it at eight pretty

2124
01:41:21,280 --> 01:41:24,000
much for payroll things. Depends.

2125
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:27,199
>> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

2126
01:41:27,199 --> 01:41:28,880
>> I can do a little more research into

2127
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:30,159
that, but that's one where I think

2128
01:41:30,159 --> 01:41:31,920
adding a standard might make sense so

2129
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:34,480
that we can kind of because it is being

2130
01:41:34,480 --> 01:41:35,920
encouraged and I think there might be

2131
01:41:35,920 --> 01:41:37,520
some funding available for daycarees in

2132
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:39,679
the near future. Um,

2133
01:41:39,679 --> 01:41:41,360
>> well, if we're redoing this, now's the

2134
01:41:41,360 --> 01:41:43,280
time to put it in there. We wanted to

2135
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:44,239
think of

2136
01:41:44,239 --> 01:41:47,679
>> Yeah. And exact. That's my my figure

2137
01:41:47,679 --> 01:41:49,280
because we'll have a code amendment for

2138
01:41:49,280 --> 01:41:51,520
this. Um, the last one I noticed that

2139
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:55,280
we're like kind of off is fitness

2140
01:41:55,280 --> 01:41:56,639
centers. I mean, we only have the one

2141
01:41:56,639 --> 01:41:58,719
right now, but if someone came in and

2142
01:41:58,719 --> 01:42:01,520
wanted a CrossFit gym or something,

2143
01:42:01,520 --> 01:42:03,600
they'd need one space per 150 square

2144
01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:06,880
feet. Um, pretty much everywhere else

2145
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:08,719
like that's a lot more restrictive than

2146
01:42:08,719 --> 01:42:11,840
almost everywhere else. Um, I talked to

2147
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:13,920
Cameron from the rec district and she

2148
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,199
said their max number of users per day

2149
01:42:17,199 --> 01:42:20,639
is about 300 and that averages about 22

2150
01:42:20,639 --> 01:42:25,199
users per hour, but we would require

2151
01:42:25,199 --> 01:42:26,560
under our current code if you had a

2152
01:42:26,560 --> 01:42:29,600
10,000 foot gym that would be 67 parking

2153
01:42:29,600 --> 01:42:31,280
spaces.

2154
01:42:31,280 --> 01:42:32,880
And so like that feels like a lot of

2155
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:36,239
parking for a gym. Um, if we dropped it

2156
01:42:36,239 --> 01:42:38,960
to like

2157
01:42:38,960 --> 01:42:41,920
200 to 300 ft, we might reduce that to

2158
01:42:41,920 --> 01:42:45,600
like 35 to 50 spaces. 35 spaces if it

2159
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:49,280
was 300 square ft per and that might

2160
01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:51,440
still I don't know. That's just one

2161
01:42:51,440 --> 01:42:54,639
where it was quite off. There was a lot

2162
01:42:54,639 --> 01:42:57,280
of history to that when that was being

2163
01:42:57,280 --> 01:43:00,480
built and they came in for the parking

2164
01:43:00,480 --> 01:43:03,360
because if anything they didn't have

2165
01:43:03,360 --> 01:43:06,159
enough to whatever the requirement was

2166
01:43:06,159 --> 01:43:07,040
at the time.

2167
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:08,800
>> They don't meet the standard by any

2168
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:11,360
means, but like I think it's about well

2169
01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:13,360
I don't actually know how big it is,

2170
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:15,040
>> but you never see it filled up around

2171
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:18,320
there really. So, I'm almost wondering

2172
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:21,199
on that back side, is that paid parking

2173
01:43:21,199 --> 01:43:22,880
now

2174
01:43:22,880 --> 01:43:25,840
>> on the south side or on the north side?

2175
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:28,480
No, that still is unpaid

2176
01:43:28,480 --> 01:43:32,239
>> cuz if anything residents there there

2177
01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:34,639
was a lot of back and forth and then

2178
01:43:34,639 --> 01:43:37,360
they had to get permission which it's

2179
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:38,719
interesting because I don't know what's

2180
01:43:38,719 --> 01:43:41,679
happened with that is their vans and

2181
01:43:41,679 --> 01:43:44,000
stuff couldn't be parked on the city

2182
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:46,159
streets because it took up parking. So,

2183
01:43:46,159 --> 01:43:48,159
they were using part of the football

2184
01:43:48,159 --> 01:43:48,880
field,

2185
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:49,119
>> right,

2186
01:43:49,119 --> 01:43:50,800
>> to park their vans,

2187
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:52,880
>> and now they're parking them in the city

2188
01:43:52,880 --> 01:43:55,360
parking lot, which that's not cool

2189
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:56,639
either.

2190
01:43:56,639 --> 01:43:59,119
>> That's it's going away from completely

2191
01:43:59,119 --> 01:44:01,520
what the deal was with them when they

2192
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:02,400
built it.

2193
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:04,000
>> So, it's probably a whole thing to

2194
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:06,320
revisit and see what would make more

2195
01:44:06,320 --> 01:44:07,040
sense.

2196
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:09,920
>> Yeah. For for them, right? Yeah. Because

2197
01:44:09,920 --> 01:44:12,400
again, like they already exist. We can't

2198
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:15,119
like renegotiate parking now unless

2199
01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:16,480
there's changes of use and things like

2200
01:44:16,480 --> 01:44:16,960
that. But

2201
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,199
>> but the parking of the vans and stuff,

2202
01:44:19,199 --> 01:44:21,520
>> right? That's true. And I guess that's

2203
01:44:21,520 --> 01:44:23,040
not part of the code amendment, but it's

2204
01:44:23,040 --> 01:44:24,159
something to look into, right? If

2205
01:44:24,159 --> 01:44:26,480
they're taking up like parking spaces

2206
01:44:26,480 --> 01:44:27,920
>> and maybe the city worked to deal with

2207
01:44:27,920 --> 01:44:30,239
them. I don't know. But originally they

2208
01:44:30,239 --> 01:44:32,159
had to do it. They had to park down on

2209
01:44:32,159 --> 01:44:34,480
the ball field, the football field.

2210
01:44:34,480 --> 01:44:37,119
there was a portion of it and that's

2211
01:44:37,119 --> 01:44:39,440
what let us

2212
01:44:39,440 --> 01:44:43,920
>> pass that they had enough parking but

2213
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:48,470
had we had it less

2214
01:44:48,480 --> 01:44:50,000
» a lesser requirement

2215
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:51,520
>> right they probably could have done it

2216
01:44:51,520 --> 01:44:55,199
without having to make that deal I don't

2217
01:44:55,199 --> 01:44:56,560
know there's a lot of history there

2218
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:58,800
>> yeah I mean I don't anticipate any

2219
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:00,239
>> my brain's not remembering things

2220
01:45:00,239 --> 01:45:00,639
anymore

2221
01:45:00,639 --> 01:45:02,159
>> I don't anticipate like anyone else

2222
01:45:02,159 --> 01:45:03,840
coming in and building something of that

2223
01:45:03,840 --> 01:45:06,159
size or scale, but I could see like

2224
01:45:06,159 --> 01:45:07,520
someone saying, "Oh, I want to do this

2225
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:10,560
little like CrossFit gym or like yoga

2226
01:45:10,560 --> 01:45:13,119
studio or Pilates or I don't something

2227
01:45:13,119 --> 01:45:16,320
like that." And so one space per 150

2228
01:45:16,320 --> 01:45:18,080
square feet

2229
01:45:18,080 --> 01:45:20,560
during peak hours could be reasonable,

2230
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:22,800
but like that could also make it very

2231
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:24,800
difficult because almost all of our

2232
01:45:24,800 --> 01:45:26,560
other like a restaurant standard is only

2233
01:45:26,560 --> 01:45:29,520
one space per 250 square feet. I feel

2234
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:32,400
like restaurants generate similar

2235
01:45:32,400 --> 01:45:35,920
amounts of patronage to a gym.

2236
01:45:35,920 --> 01:45:38,000
>> So, you're saying you'd like to see like

2237
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:41,840
one space per under 200 ft?

2238
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:44,159
>> Well, right now it's one space per 150.

2239
01:45:44,159 --> 01:45:45,840
And I'm thinking I'm wondering if we

2240
01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:48,080
could make it like one space for 250 or

2241
01:45:48,080 --> 01:45:49,600
something and actually reduce that

2242
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:51,199
parking requirement. I'm happy to leave

2243
01:45:51,199 --> 01:45:53,440
it as it is, but it's one of the it's

2244
01:45:53,440 --> 01:45:55,679
like the one space where we're

2245
01:45:55,679 --> 01:46:00,400
definitely different from the average.

2246
01:46:00,400 --> 01:46:02,880
>> I wonder where where they are at right

2247
01:46:02,880 --> 01:46:06,400
now and see if that is a number that we

2248
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:08,320
could be happy with. Just be like, well,

2249
01:46:08,320 --> 01:46:09,280
let's just

2250
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:10,719
>> like look at their square footage

2251
01:46:10,719 --> 01:46:12,639
>> where they actually have right now going

2252
01:46:12,639 --> 01:46:13,199
and if

2253
01:46:13,199 --> 01:46:14,320
>> putting in the rec center.

2254
01:46:14,320 --> 01:46:16,000
>> Yeah, they have right now

2255
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:20,080
>> because it's way off. But but when you

2256
01:46:20,080 --> 01:46:24,639
look it was overly

2257
01:46:24,639 --> 01:46:26,960
required parking

2258
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:29,840
cuz you don't ever see it all built up.

2259
01:46:29,840 --> 01:46:31,840
>> I mean they sure they can use the city

2260
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:34,239
lot but they had to have parking behind

2261
01:46:34,239 --> 01:46:36,400
that building was well that's all

2262
01:46:36,400 --> 01:46:38,080
supposed to be rec center parking.

2263
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:38,639
>> Sure.

2264
01:46:38,639 --> 01:46:42,320
>> Along the but now that probably changes

2265
01:46:42,320 --> 01:46:44,159
with

2266
01:46:44,159 --> 01:46:45,920
the way the road is on the other side. I

2267
01:46:45,920 --> 01:46:47,199
guess they haven't looked at it.

2268
01:46:47,199 --> 01:46:49,040
>> Yeah. There's quite a lot of additional

2269
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:51,520
parking now, but the parking on the

2270
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:55,520
south side of the rec center is paid

2271
01:46:55,520 --> 01:46:59,679
parking and it but it's public. So if a

2272
01:46:59,679 --> 01:47:01,440
resident parks there, they can park for

2273
01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:03,600
free. If it's not a restaurant, they

2274
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:04,639
pay.

2275
01:47:04,639 --> 01:47:06,159
>> And so

2276
01:47:06,159 --> 01:47:09,040
>> you mean the big lot? Well, just like

2277
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:13,040
next to the little park that they're

2278
01:47:13,040 --> 01:47:16,080
going to do to the city, there's like 20

2279
01:47:16,080 --> 01:47:18,480
parking spaces adjacent to the park now.

2280
01:47:18,480 --> 01:47:20,239
So, we've increased parking in that area

2281
01:47:20,239 --> 01:47:23,199
by about 20 parking spaces.

2282
01:47:23,199 --> 01:47:26,480
>> Um, which probably helps the rec

2283
01:47:26,480 --> 01:47:29,280
district more than anyone, but

2284
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:32,400
um well, okay. So, it sounds like

2285
01:47:32,400 --> 01:47:34,960
>> revisit it. I'll revisit it and when I'm

2286
01:47:34,960 --> 01:47:36,960
coming back when I'm ready to come back

2287
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:38,800
with

2288
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,360
proposed edits I'll have something for

2289
01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:42,480
that

2290
01:47:42,480 --> 01:47:43,360
>> if it's based on

2291
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:44,719
>> Dan good job

2292
01:47:44,719 --> 01:47:46,880
>> anything gets done

2293
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:48,560
>> so I guess the last one is is there any

2294
01:47:48,560 --> 01:47:50,400
other things that you want to talk about

2295
01:47:50,400 --> 01:47:52,080
with parking

2296
01:47:52,080 --> 01:47:54,400
>> I actually have a question I'm curious

2297
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:57,199
what happened with the parking issue

2298
01:47:57,199 --> 01:47:59,440
that the library had that get resolved

2299
01:47:59,440 --> 01:48:02,320
>> they're coming to a work session on the

2300
01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:03,199
15th

2301
01:48:03,199 --> 01:48:06,159
to talk about like potential

2302
01:48:06,159 --> 01:48:07,440
solutions.

2303
01:48:07,440 --> 01:48:10,080
>> Okay. Oh, for

2304
01:48:10,080 --> 01:48:11,360
>> the library,

2305
01:48:11,360 --> 01:48:13,119
>> it'll be with council. It'll be like a

2306
01:48:13,119 --> 01:48:14,480
council work session item for the

2307
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:16,800
library to talk about

2308
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:18,719
potential like either like encroachment

2309
01:48:18,719 --> 01:48:20,960
agreement or like dedicating a few

2310
01:48:20,960 --> 01:48:23,199
spaces as library parking or just like

2311
01:48:23,199 --> 01:48:25,440
turning it back into

2312
01:48:25,440 --> 01:48:27,119
30 minute parking or something because

2313
01:48:27,119 --> 01:48:29,440
there's been a lot of changes there. But

2314
01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:31,600
I'm not sure where that will go yet.

2315
01:48:31,600 --> 01:48:33,440
>> Okay. But right now as it is, they don't

2316
01:48:33,440 --> 01:48:34,800
have any.

2317
01:48:34,800 --> 01:48:37,679
>> They just have those few spaces north of

2318
01:48:37,679 --> 01:48:41,679
the library which is pretty much used by

2319
01:48:41,679 --> 01:48:43,760
um employees.

2320
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:45,440
>> It's like to the north. It's like

2321
01:48:45,440 --> 01:48:47,679
between the

2322
01:48:47,679 --> 01:48:50,960
area and then there's like one just like

2323
01:48:50,960 --> 01:48:52,960
10 minute space for drop off.

2324
01:48:52,960 --> 01:48:53,840
>> Okay.

2325
01:48:53,840 --> 01:48:55,040
>> New two,

2326
01:48:55,040 --> 01:48:58,000
>> but they have no like dedicated on the

2327
01:48:58,000 --> 01:48:59,199
street library park,

2328
01:48:59,199 --> 01:49:01,440
>> right? which they were asking for for

2329
01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:02,960
>> Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was a bummer

2330
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:03,600
for sure.

2331
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:06,560
>> Yeah.

2332
01:49:06,560 --> 01:49:10,159
>> Um, how did the meeting go Monday?

2333
01:49:10,159 --> 01:49:12,239
>> Oh, the affordable housing meeting. I

2334
01:49:12,239 --> 01:49:14,159
would say it was like a pretty decent

2335
01:49:14,159 --> 01:49:16,480
turnout. Uh, Luchi was there. Chuck, you

2336
01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:17,760
were there as well, right?

2337
01:49:17,760 --> 01:49:18,800
>> And Judy was there.

2338
01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:19,360
>> Yeah.

2339
01:49:19,360 --> 01:49:21,840
>> So, we had a good good playing.

2340
01:49:21,840 --> 01:49:24,480
>> I think I counted 18 19 something like

2341
01:49:24,480 --> 01:49:26,480
that. and Mike. I mean, yeah, I was

2342
01:49:26,480 --> 01:49:28,800
there and so was Andy and so was Guy and

2343
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:32,159
so was the town administrator for Empire

2344
01:49:32,159 --> 01:49:33,920
and one of the county commissioners, but

2345
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:36,239
there was like a

2346
01:49:36,239 --> 01:49:41,990
few people who were just general public

2347
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:48,070
» that one lady, she might want to be

2348
01:49:48,080 --> 01:49:51,840
» sitting behind. She had a package. I

2349
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:53,199
don't know if you've noticed, but

2350
01:49:53,199 --> 01:49:57,199
Fieldhouse their rates have changed

2351
01:49:57,199 --> 01:50:00,320
and to me their rates are now

2352
01:50:00,320 --> 01:50:03,119
affordable.

2353
01:50:03,119 --> 01:50:05,920
>> You can you can get a twobedroom for 17

2354
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:06,960
something.

2355
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:10,159
>> So for 1,800 a month, a twobedroom, two

2356
01:50:10,159 --> 01:50:12,080
bath,

2357
01:50:12,080 --> 01:50:14,239
>> um washer,

2358
01:50:14,239 --> 01:50:18,320
>> $900 a person. you know,

2359
01:50:18,320 --> 01:50:20,960
we're we're paying people $20 an hour

2360
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:24,000
and they don't qualify to live in any

2361
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:26,239
affordable housing because they make too

2362
01:50:26,239 --> 01:50:27,440
much money.

2363
01:50:27,440 --> 01:50:30,400
>> So, that looking at some of the numbers,

2364
01:50:30,400 --> 01:50:32,800
what study was I looking at? Was it the

2365
01:50:32,800 --> 01:50:35,600
one you did or something or what what

2366
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:38,719
was I looking at? Um, there's a lot of

2367
01:50:38,719 --> 01:50:41,199
affordable stuff that people think isn't

2368
01:50:41,199 --> 01:50:45,199
affordable and they wouldn't qualify

2369
01:50:45,199 --> 01:50:48,159
to live in these affordable places.

2370
01:50:48,159 --> 01:50:50,080
Every what everybody's thinking is

2371
01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:52,480
affordable. It's not realistic,

2372
01:50:52,480 --> 01:50:54,480
>> right? Well, and things have changed a

2373
01:50:54,480 --> 01:50:57,920
lot even in the last decade. like the

2374
01:50:57,920 --> 01:50:59,440
price of a home and your average

2375
01:50:59,440 --> 01:51:02,480
mortgage price on a house been bought in

2376
01:51:02,480 --> 01:51:04,560
2016

2377
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:06,639
in a lot of cases is half what it is

2378
01:51:06,639 --> 01:51:10,000
today in either those springs. And so

2379
01:51:10,000 --> 01:51:11,520
for folks who've owned their homes a

2380
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:14,320
long time or bought pre2020, I think

2381
01:51:14,320 --> 01:51:16,639
you're the

2382
01:51:16,639 --> 01:51:19,199
>> reality of that sort of situation and

2383
01:51:19,199 --> 01:51:20,719
what you would have been renting for at

2384
01:51:20,719 --> 01:51:24,960
that time to now is is very different.

2385
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:25,360
But

2386
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:27,360
>> right,

2387
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:29,600
>> the problem is there isn't affordable

2388
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:31,840
places to purchase. There's affordable

2389
01:51:31,840 --> 01:51:34,159
places to rent. Right.

2390
01:51:34,159 --> 01:51:36,080
>> Yeah. I think that's the big missing

2391
01:51:36,080 --> 01:51:38,719
piece is how do you get like even if

2392
01:51:38,719 --> 01:51:40,639
it's condos,

2393
01:51:40,639 --> 01:51:42,480
>> you know, if you saw like someone come

2394
01:51:42,480 --> 01:51:45,040
in and say, "Let's build 50 condos." And

2395
01:51:45,040 --> 01:51:46,719
they're all for sale and they're all

2396
01:51:46,719 --> 01:51:48,560
$300,000.

2397
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:51,280
Like that's creates a home ownership

2398
01:51:51,280 --> 01:51:53,760
opportunity for 50 50 people,

2399
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:54,800
>> right?

2400
01:51:54,800 --> 01:51:56,400
which is more the direction they should

2401
01:51:56,400 --> 01:51:58,080
be looking is looking at stuff like

2402
01:51:58,080 --> 01:52:00,320
that, not

2403
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:04,000
>> maybe we need to talk more to Habitat.

2404
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:05,119
>> Yeah. I mean,

2405
01:52:05,119 --> 01:52:05,599
>> right,

2406
01:52:05,599 --> 01:52:07,119
>> it's Yeah,

2407
01:52:07,119 --> 01:52:09,199
>> it's a Yeah, something like Habitat's a

2408
01:52:09,199 --> 01:52:10,800
good model because it gets people into

2409
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:12,800
home ownership,

2410
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:15,360
but it's not a gigantic building that

2411
01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:17,440
changes those like perceived character

2412
01:52:17,440 --> 01:52:19,360
in the same way. And I know they talk

2413
01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:21,040
about it for service workers and

2414
01:52:21,040 --> 01:52:23,119
everything like that, which I consider,

2415
01:52:23,119 --> 01:52:26,080
you know, our employees also, but

2416
01:52:26,080 --> 01:52:28,080
they're not going to qualify for those

2417
01:52:28,080 --> 01:52:30,960
places. And

2418
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:32,480
there comes a point where sometimes

2419
01:52:32,480 --> 01:52:35,040
wages maybe have to be paid more, which

2420
01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:37,040
I think Idaho Springs does pretty good

2421
01:52:37,040 --> 01:52:39,199
with it actually.

2422
01:52:39,199 --> 01:52:42,560
I mean, we always compare stuff and, you

2423
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:45,520
know,

2424
01:52:45,520 --> 01:52:48,320
that's pretty good. Yeah. So, I didn't

2425
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:50,320
know what the take on a lot of that was.

2426
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:55,040
And maybe it was was their thing posted,

2427
01:52:55,040 --> 01:52:57,040
the study or something. Is that what it

2428
01:52:57,040 --> 01:52:59,760
was? Where did I read it? Did they have

2429
01:52:59,760 --> 01:53:00,960
something posted?

2430
01:53:00,960 --> 01:53:02,800
>> Uh, what do you think?

2431
01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:04,639
>> Through the housing stuff. The housing

2432
01:53:04,639 --> 01:53:06,400
Oh, maybe it was the county's housing

2433
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:08,560
thing. Don't know what

2434
01:53:08,560 --> 01:53:10,800
>> he sent us. He sent us something right

2435
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:11,280
before.

2436
01:53:11,280 --> 01:53:12,960
>> That's what it was.

2437
01:53:12,960 --> 01:53:15,440
>> That's what I was going through. Yes.

2438
01:53:15,440 --> 01:53:16,400
That must have been it.

2439
01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:20,480
>> That was it. Yeah. Anyway, I was just

2440
01:53:20,480 --> 01:53:23,199
wondering how the turnout was. Good.

2441
01:53:23,199 --> 01:53:24,480
>> Not bad. I think they're going to try to

2442
01:53:24,480 --> 01:53:26,560
do some more of that kind of stuff going

2443
01:53:26,560 --> 01:53:28,639
forward. Maybe do it in some other

2444
01:53:28,639 --> 01:53:30,560
locations.

2445
01:53:30,560 --> 01:53:32,560
Good to get people talking in like a

2446
01:53:32,560 --> 01:53:34,560
constructive way.

2447
01:53:34,560 --> 01:53:37,199
And I think if I was disappointed

2448
01:53:37,199 --> 01:53:38,719
there's no additional people, there was

2449
01:53:38,719 --> 01:53:40,719
nobody in the audience tonight because I

2450
01:53:40,719 --> 01:53:42,960
really thought folks would be catalyzed

2451
01:53:42,960 --> 01:53:45,360
to start coming to meetings and

2452
01:53:45,360 --> 01:53:47,679
>> pushing for change and all this, but

2453
01:53:47,679 --> 01:53:49,920
>> more parking if I was just saying if

2454
01:53:49,920 --> 01:53:51,520
especially if there's parking on it.

2455
01:53:51,520 --> 01:53:51,840
Yeah.

2456
01:53:51,840 --> 01:53:55,040
>> Yeah. I I wish it was easier to get

2457
01:53:55,040 --> 01:53:57,199
>> that the people that we had at the at

2458
01:53:57,199 --> 01:53:59,920
those meetings, you know, show up for

2459
01:53:59,920 --> 01:54:02,239
this conversation so they can

2460
01:54:02,239 --> 01:54:05,360
>> tell us what they think.

2461
01:54:05,360 --> 01:54:08,320
Yeah. Yeah. Are we do we have any Yeah.

2462
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:10,639
How many meetings? We have a three limit

2463
01:54:10,639 --> 01:54:12,560
meeting.

2464
01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:16,400
>> Well, I I just today sent an email to

2465
01:54:16,400 --> 01:54:19,520
Jefferson because I noticed this is now

2466
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:21,679
he's missed

2467
01:54:21,679 --> 01:54:23,840
three. It might even be four meetings in

2468
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:24,320
a row.

2469
01:54:24,320 --> 01:54:27,280
>> So, our bylaws say if you missed three

2470
01:54:27,280 --> 01:54:30,159
>> um well, if it says,

2471
01:54:30,159 --> 01:54:31,840
>> but I don't know if that means for the

2472
01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:34,080
alternate. I don't think you're like

2473
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:37,280
automatically kicked off, but you can

2474
01:54:37,280 --> 01:54:40,480
be. It says members shall be removed

2475
01:54:40,480 --> 01:54:42,560
subject to removal by majority vote of

2476
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:45,840
city council for inefficiency, neglected

2477
01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:48,639
duty, excessive absenteeism,

2478
01:54:48,639 --> 01:54:50,400
which is three consecutive meetings. So,

2479
01:54:50,400 --> 01:54:52,560
we'd have to

2480
01:54:52,560 --> 01:54:54,880
take it to council

2481
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:57,840
to formally move. But I reached out cuz

2482
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:01,280
I heard a rumor that he might be moving,

2483
01:55:01,280 --> 01:55:03,199
>> but I don't know for but that was like a

2484
01:55:03,199 --> 01:55:05,599
rumor. I didn't hear from him.

2485
01:55:05,599 --> 01:55:07,119
>> So I had reached out. I haven't heard

2486
01:55:07,119 --> 01:55:11,199
from him in a while. So I But if he uh

2487
01:55:11,199 --> 01:55:12,159
if he did [clears throat] move then

2488
01:55:12,159 --> 01:55:13,760
obviously

2489
01:55:13,760 --> 01:55:15,520
>> Yeah. I don't know. I guess I wasn't

2490
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:17,760
even thinking. I just

2491
01:55:17,760 --> 01:55:18,320
>> Yeah.

2492
01:55:18,320 --> 01:55:21,679
He said it

2493
01:55:21,679 --> 01:55:24,159
>> and I said that he should take us out to

2494
01:55:24,159 --> 01:55:25,440
dinner.

2495
01:55:25,440 --> 01:55:28,080
Oh, is that what you said? Take us to

2496
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:30,635
dinner. He's been missing the meetings

2497
01:55:30,635 --> 01:55:31,360
[laughter]

2498
01:55:31,360 --> 01:55:33,599
at least for a year.

2499
01:55:33,599 --> 01:55:33,679
I

2500
01:55:33,679 --> 01:55:35,360
>> think he's been talking about that and

2501
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:37,360
still nothing. So,

2502
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:41,040
>> all right, we're done. Yeah.