Good afternoon. Thank you for coming. We got a full house today. Today is April 25th, 2023 and this is our regular 1 p.m. business meeting for the BOCC.
At this time, I'm going to ask Commissioner Holly Davis to lead us in the invocation and fill Watson, I believe.
did I see Phil I feel you're going to lead us in the pledge of
legions and if you're able and you're willing please stand and join us.
Thank you
dear Heavenly Father today we give special thanks to our citrus county
animal staff volunteers and the generous donors as we appear to be on the
precipice of finally getting us a new animal shelter to honor our staff and all
of your creatures.
We would like to ask for you to help bless our wisdom today,
that we may make decisions for the benefit of this community,
and for all of us, staff, elected citizens,
for all of us to work together to create a harmonious society
for the benefit of us all.
Please look out for our first responders,
most especially in this community as we're looking at yet more mental health and
anger issues that seem to be spilling over into our daily lives.
Thank you for this glorious day and our earthly paradise in Jesus' name, Amen.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the very public, which
expands on nation, on their God, in the visible liberty and justice for all.
Thank you, Mr. Watson, for your service.
At this time, Madam Deputy Clerk, if you would do the rule call, this is a regular meeting of
the Citrus County Board of County Commissioners, this 20th day of April, 2023, and
attendance or chair, would they save off first by
chair, Halle Davis, second by chair, Rebecca Bays,
Commissioner Diana Fenigan, County Administrator,
Steve Howard, and County Attorney, didn't he save time in life?
Thank you.
Mr. Howard, before we get a motion for the approval of the agenda,
is there any additions or deletions?
There are E13, if we could please pull that,
forward to the Department of Transportation, section 53, 11 rural area funding. Also, there's
additional item into attendance at NACO conference. Also, just the additional information
was for H6, the MPO PowerPoint presentation was updated. That's all, please.
So, E-13N into NIH-6.
And then I would like to move E-2.
Did you already say that before a regular business please, so that the architect and the engineer go on their way?
That'd be great.
Thank you.
So, board, I'm looking for approval of the Agenda with these additions and lesions.
Mature.
Yes, damn.
Did you say E-13 is pulled?
E-13 is pulled.
Okay. Motion to approve the agenda with polling E13 edition of N6, H6 and moving E2 as soon as possible.
N2, N2, H6.
I said, add N2, H6 and move E2 to as early as possible.
Thank you.
Okay.
Very good.
I also received additional information for O1.
It also said, Neko, is that a different item?
Oh, no, you're right. Good catch. Yes. Oh, one in the addition of a one.
Amy, we very much appreciate you. And the addition of a one.
Thank you. I'm looking for a second. Second. I have a motion by Commissioner Davis.
A second by Commissioner Davis.
Bays. Is there any additional comments from the board? All in favor say aye. Aye.
post-ainay for zero. And as you noticed, usually four of us up here, Commissioner Canard
was not able to attend. Okay, so consent agenda, board, what is your wishes?
Manager? Yes, Pam. I think a good idea for someone to hold out B-15. I will not be voting on B-15.
Very
Good. Madam chair.
Hold for discussion.
Motion to approve B1, 3B14.
Second.
Thank you. I have a motion by Commissioner Davis.
Second by Commissioner Finnigan.
For B1 through B14.
Is there any public comment?
On the consent agenda?
Seeing none, is there any further board comment?
All in favor, say aye.
Opposed, say nay.
That passes 4-0.
B-15.
Set a public hearing for a workshop.
On SV22-022, still well for finnigan vacate roadways.
Set hearing A and B.
The public hearing will be May 23,
23 at 1 30 p.m. And I'm looking for a motion to approve measure. Thank you. Motion from Commissioner
Bayes to approve public hearing. Second by Commissioner Davis. Is there any further board comment?
Is there any public comment? Seeing none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed say nay.
we have a 301 recused. Thank you very much. Proclamations. See, see, see, one through, see, four, four.
Madam Chair, Commissioner of Privacy, one through four.
Second. I have a motion by Commissioner Davis. I heard Commissioner Bays first.
is there any board discussion about the proclamations? All in favour say aye. Aye. Opposed
say nay. That passes four zero. If you'd like to join me down front please.
Could those
people representing the risk manager of the year award please come forward?
Just real
quick.
I want to say aye represent our bird insurance which you guys have your surplus insurance with
Mary and I work very closely together.
We are so honored to be able to work with Mary.
She does such a great job.
She's actually even been a mentor to a couple
of our newer city risk managers.
And I appreciate her help very much.
I have a very large territory.
And to be able to work with somebody that is so,
You know, I have so much control over her job, which is very difficult.
People really don't understand it, and she manages the claims beautifully.
We never have to step in for anything, so I am very pleased to award you with this because
it is my pleasure and preferred pleasure to work with you.
You've done a fantastic job.
I just wanted to say one thing, if you don't mind.
I wanted to thank Pam so much for your kind words.
I have to write this because I'm nervous.
I truly appreciate the honor and I'm very humbled and appreciative of this award for the job that I enjoy doing each day.
I am lucky to work with incredible people such as Pam Hancock and Paul Dawson who are our insurance companies.
My boss is Erin and Barbara from Management and Budget, but most especially for Jennifer Palmer, who's my risk coordinator, who works hard each day and supports me.
I'm truly blessed to work with great people.
Thank you for coming.
Mr. Howard and Ms. Lynn for having me today.
So, Mary also does a great job.
We award our cities for doing training or whatever we have a reimbursement fund and every year
Mary puts it in, as she receives the $5,000 back to the county, so we are so proud to be able
to support you guys with free and burst of your funds.
With those individuals representing Citrus County
Trash to Treasure, Art Expo, please come forward.
For as each year, more than 230 million tons of solid waste
go into the nation's landfills and waste to energy facilities
and for as an order to focus the attention of our students, employees
and the local community on the importance of recycling.
University of Florida, IFA's Extension Citrus County, and conjunction with Citrus County
Solid Waste Management, is sponsoring the third annual Citrus County Trash to Treasurer
Recycling Art Contest for Citrus County Mill school students, high school students, and adults,
and whereas artwork must have an environmental theme and be comprised of at least 70% use
or recycled materials. The artwork will encourage recycling and be on display from April 17th
to April 28th at the Citrus County Courthouse. That's here in Inverness until being moved to
the Lecanto Government Complex for the UF-IVAS Extension Citrus County Earth Day Celebration
on Saturday, April 29th and whereas winning artists will receive prize money from generous
sponsor donations, a total of $555 in cash prizes will be awarded to those entries that show the
most created creative expression and innovation in their use of recycled materials and whereas it is
I hope of the exhibition sponsors that recycling awareness shall be significantly increased by students and employees, as well as the community through the display of thought-provoking artwork.
Now, therefore, the Board of Citrus County, the Board of County Commissioners of Citrus County, does hereby recognize and encourage participation in the Citrus County trash to treasure art exhibition.
Welcome's the special showing of the entries and commends the sponsors for promoting this
extraordinary project in our local community.
Executed this 25th day of April 2023.
So that art displays are out front in the lobby area.
So if you can all go out there and vote for your favorite people's choice, we'd really appreciate it.
Come on out to our Earth Day event on April 29th.
It's at 10 o'clock from to want to clock at our extension office in Lecanto.
We'll have a lot of vendors and food trucks and we'll just have a good time.
So we'd like to see everyone out there.
Well, those individuals representing
fentanyl awareness day, please come forward.
Whereas citrus county florida supports policies
of the Florida Department of Health
to highlight the dangers of fentanyl within our community.
Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid that is 100 times more
potent than morphine.
And, whereas fentanyl related complications
are estimated to cost Floridian $6.4 billion
from 2016 to 2018, fentanyl is being added to illicit drugs
as well as counterfeit prescription drugs without the user's knowledge.
And we're as fentanyl's equivalent to three grains of salt can kill.
In 2022, 71 citrus county residents died of substance overdose,
with 71% of those deaths attributed to fentanyl.
And we're as the state of Florida, including citrus county,
is responding to an increase in fentanyl overdoses.
The Florida Department of Health in citrus county, in partnership with the county,
has assembled the task force and developed a work plan
address drug use in addiction within our community. Partners and community members can work together
to ensure that Narcan, a life-saving medication that can prevent overdose deaths, is available
to all. Now, therefore, the Board of County Commissioners of Citrus County, Florida,
does hereby proclaim May 9, 2023 as fentanyl awareness day, and encourages all government entities,
businesses, students, parents, and residents within the county to become aware of the dangers of
and the signs of an opioid overdose.
Executed this 25th day of April, 2023.
Thank you, Commissioners, for your proclamation.
It's less than manufactured fentanyl and its dangers,
while well-documented by health professionals
and law enforcement are largely unknown to the general population
and even more so to those most vulnerable populations
are youth and young adults.
According to the CDC, fentanyl is involved
in more deaths of Americans under 50
Then any other cause of death, including heart disease, cancer, and all other accidents.
This is a national public health crisis.
People are ingesting illicitly manufactured fentanyl without knowing it and dying at alarming rates as a result.
Fetanyl is very cheap and extremely addictive.
Drug dealers are dangerously mixing illicit manufactured fentanyl with and disguising it as other common drugs like oxy,
Percocet and Xanix to increase profits and as little as two milligrams of fentanyl, which is about two
grains of sand, can kill a person. To percept it, the practice of cutting drugs with fentanyl is
relatively new, so public awareness is low.
What can you do to help? Learn the facts and start the
conversation. If you are a parent, talk to your kids, if you are an educator, talk to your
students, don't stick them by as drug use, be prepared.
Know the signs of an overdose, carry in our can.
Please spread the word, thank you.
Thank you.
We have some quite a few times certains today, so I'm going to go ahead and open it to the
public, but I will be stopping at 130, so if you want to get in line and get in the queue,
Just to remind our y'all our old pros at this, you get three minutes to speak, if you're registered as a group, you'll have five minutes, all comments are directed to the chairman.
Please state your name and your address for the record.
Thank you.
My name is Carolyn and Dorati.
This is very difficult.
It's okay. Take your time.
Your fine.
Take the time.
Okay.
my child died of a drug I've ever died of. I'm so sorry.
But I want you to go
to try
positive health person.
He on the way to have computers in France for ten years.
His father
died of a treatment post and he was there every night with me to make sure I slept so he would take care of his
He inherited heap of chromatosis, and he had four hours.
When he lost his business, because of his illness, he had no insurance.
He had no way to pay for anything.
And he owed the hospital money, so he wouldn't go there.
So he came to me one day because he had been given meth and Nazi code of, from the doctors
for his illness, he went to the cancer center, and they did flip on, I mean, to hope that
they human cryptos and he came to me one day, he came to me one day and he said, mom,
I'm taking meth because that's what the doctor's gave me and maybe it'll help my pain.
Well, I became addicted to the meth and they came to my door one day and I would take him food.
I would help phase bills, even on my sister's security.
And they came to my door of one day and said,
we found your son, dead, New York.
In his yard.
And I went there.
And I, oh my son, in a body bag.
And I told him how much I loved
when the officer responded. He had on flip-flops a pair of shorts, and he had only a
support being the day he didn't need to hold her knees.
His shoes were left to
sing on the porch.
He was taken to the medical exam at the office, and I had
that day I was in the hospital for a week. The coroner didn't know where I was. The funeral
didn't know where I was. So they just shipped my son's body to the morgue and the funeral.
And
I just felt like even the coroner didn't have the call my son died because the
autism of math and drug overdose is so bad, but I'm realize that these people are loved,
that these people need help, and it's been, I'm sorry, it's up to you to do something
help not just find a cure but of the end cause a lot of these people don't choose to be
where they're at and they don't choose to have the condition that they have and they need help
I thought about going into the streets and telling them about my pain and what it does to the families
I lost my husband, I lost my oldest son in a fire, in her nando,
sorry, I don't want to be one left.
So please help them.
Thank you.
Thank you for your story.
Thank you.
It's very difficult.
Well, your family should be proud of you.
Who represented them well.
I hope it helps one person to overcome the badminton.
Thank you.
I don't know if you want to fall at. I'm sorry Mr. Sharpe.
All right.
Wallace.
Good afternoon.
My name is Nathan Sharpe.
I've been Christopher.
Commissioners last Wednesday.
I had the privilege of making my first trip to the state capital.
During a legislative session,
And I encourage the same folks that come to these meetings and speak every two weeks to do the exact same thing.
Spend some time wandering the halls, meeting your legislators, seeing committees in action, and watching the Florida base,
is definitely an eye-opening experience.
As the Super Majority in Tallahassee continues to erode home-roll, we can no longer afford to ignore what happens in Tallahassee,
and the consequences of whom we send a representative.
Today I want to provide an update on one of the bills I spoke about two weeks ago,
and also talk about another preemption bill because it is the session of preemption.
HB439, SB 1604, this is the land use and development regulation bill. It is on the second
reading in both chambers. This is the bill that would prevent the county from denying a land use
change for the sweetwater development in sugar mill because the infrastructure to support it doesn't exist.
So let's take that in. Tallahassee is making it so you as a board won't be able to keep
developments that our community doesn't want out.
So they're taking that power away from you.
The legislation was deemed, I'm sorry, the legislature has deemed that this was also
the appropriate bill for the government to punish a business for speaking its mind.
So it's all that certain have passed, unfortunately.
HB-1515, SB-170, this is the local ordinance bill.
It forces counties and cities to spend tax dollars to defend ordinances that address the
needs of their communities, and pauses those audiences while the matters before court
if they are challenged by a business entity. The bill also adds a requirement that a business
impact assessment be added to certain types of audiences. This is potentially time-consuming
and expensive for local governments that are already financially strapped in the middle of
the resources. It could delay and impede the ability to respond to the needs of our citizens.
The bill passed the Senate and is on the second reading calendar in the house. Last meeting
was mentioned that finding a way to recharge residents when these bad bills were in process was
important. For our county issued a press release in other communications to businesses and
community leaders regarding the public construction bill. I'll send that out to everybody so they have
a copy. But finding a way to work with the county administrator to do something like this before
the next session will be beneficial. Thank you. Thank you sir. Next speaker please.
My sympathies go out with this lady right here, I'm sorry for you, I really am.
My name is Ray Kolowski,
my address of phone number.
What area do you live in?
In Citrus County, in a county.
Three, four, four, five, two.
Thank you.
I'm mainly here to talk about not having my...
Taxpayer dollars going for sexualized tourism. I know that Ms. Davis has proposed this and I think it's
very discriminatory against the people in Citrus County. We can advertise for voting, for hiking,
fishing,
but not for one particular group. I embrace everybody. I think do what they
want to do, but don't force it on our community. We have a wonderful community here,
their family oriented, God-loving people, and to promote something like this is going to
be a detriment to the county. You see what happened to the Bush beer commercials. So let
that sink in. Nobody wants to come in a situation like that. And that's all I have to say,
God bless you all. May you make the right decision.
Thank you, sir. Next speaker, actually, could you all know the cue that you're in? This
will be our last speaker until our 130. So just know your position in line. Good afternoon,
commissioners Sabrina Watson. I'll be speaking for the exceptional life project today so I'll take five minutes please in the spirit you have that on file. Yes, man. Okay. Thank you in the spirit of education
I would like to read from the Constitution of the state of Florida today article two section eight talks about ethics and government
Public offices a public trust the people have shall have the right to secure and sustain that trust against this
Against abuse, to assure this right, any public officer employee who breaches the public trust for private gain and any person or entity,
inducing such a breach shall be liable to the state for all financial benefits obtained by such actions.
The matter of recovery, and additional damages may be provided by law.
At the last Board of County Commissioners meeting, I spoke about the monkey business that, or the corporate welfare,
some people call it for Monkey Island. During that time, Ms. Finnigan implied that I was telling
tales of fiction. So I brought the complete information today so that everybody can see the clear
tale. Let's start over here with Florida-limited liability company, Monkey Island Riverside LLC,
whose manager is listed as Matthew Loman on sunbiz.org.
That organization gave $350 in campaign donation money to Ms. Finnegan while she was running
for office.
And last meeting Ms. Finnegan, who did not recuse herself, voted to give Matthew Loman
again, $98,000 under the name of the Historic Monkey Island Inc. as a nonprofit.
She also mentioned that there was actually a plan in case that nonprofit were to be dissolved.
I'd like to read everybody that plan.
In the event Historic Monkey Island Inc. is dissolved or makes any conveyance of the Monkey
Island property described above, the Monkey Island property shall
revert to, and thereafter become fee-simple real estate, owned by
Grand Tour Monkey Island Holdings LLC, its successors, and or assigns.
So for the people who don't actually know what that means, that means that
should they decide to dissolve in nonprofit after the county has given them
$98,000 that mistaken voted on, that property wouldn't
He'd go right back to, oh wait, Matthew Lohman, as Monkey Island Riverside LLC, and Commissioner
Kanard in some emails indicated that people were talking about this and not giving the
whole story.
So I want to make sure everybody gets the whole story, including the part about the taxes, because
yes, it is a bad tax, it is still a tax, at least months are coming from.
But what people need to understand is that those taxes could be used for things other than corporate welfare.
Such as, oh wait, I believe it was mentioned,
shoring up shorelines.
Thank you for your time.
Thank you.
Okay.
So at this time, sir, you'll be next in line.
We're going to do our time-sertons.
So we are going to jump to H1.
Director Aurekhead, please come forward.
Good
afternoon.
I'd like to introduce Taylor Cox from the Nest, the Nest.
He has done a study of our transportation system that was the scope of work
through the MPO.
Good afternoon.
As I've mentioned, I'm Taylor Cox,
who has presented the conference of operations analysis
with first citrus kind of transit, can we have a look at that?
Just standing in front of it, I don't think you have to lean down just to be kind of in front of it.
I'm going to go next.
If you're not familiar with the COA, it's a short-term data-driven analysis,
to improve transit over time.
It looks like improvements to efficiency and effectiveness.
As you can see, there's a few processes to go along with this.
There's the goals and objectives.
Marketing analysis, public outreach,
to meet with the operators, and there's a lot of improvements
that go involve this, which we'll talk about here shortly.
And the goal of the COA, we've identified here,
as a minimize impacts to existing ridership,
increase operational efficiencies, preserve
coverage, but re-line resources where,
OK, go next, sort of there.
So minimize impacts to existing ridership,
increases operational efficiencies, preserve
route coverage, our re-line resource
with their negatively impacting ridership and transit, reduce route redundancy and better UIsV source
elsewhere in the system. Streamline routes by removing a bunch of network overlap and we have
potentially used on street bus stops. And last but not least, implement the new technology
called Mobility on Demand, which I'll refer to as MOD throughout this project.
Here's your current
system, four routes, got her Nando, four city, Beverly Hills, and Chris
River.
And this I'll get more of the day to driven analysis based over time
to transfer it out of it. We have this project we reviewed average daily
ridership at the stop level for a weekdays. So this is a good idea of what stops
of the highest number of ridership. We did this for 2019 for pre-COVID and 2022.
The most important map is on your right and that's kind of small right there but
identifies the stops with the on average zero boardings. Next. So, and this is the map of the
2022 operation and the map on the right as you can see because it's a little more red. And
this obviously identifies the stops that have on average zero boardings on regular basis. So,
look at this to identify where stops need to be served as we make improvements to the system.
And for the most part, in 2023, these may fluctuate a little bit, come back to normal, with more
less season of your stops with the lowest number of ridership.
This important component to our project, to look at operational analyses, is what we call
latent demand or populations of the highest transit need.
This includes your Google households, low income households, 65 in above age groups and
15 to 24.
These are most critical folks that need transit on a regular basis that don't necessarily
have access to vehicle. Next, and we compiled this into a data component called a transit orientation
index, and it provides a score to each one of these components, and these are areas that
have the highest transit need, which we focus on heavily for the project.
So kind of glanced
go through quickly, it's our current route system, and some of the pros and cons we've identified
and a fuel to base over our analyses, meeting with the drivers and the members of the public.
So on the left, you're Beverly Hills and the right, you have your Chris River out.
As you can see, they provide coverage, but they may under a lot, which is not necessarily
the best way to effectively provide transit.
So on the other thing, we look at, how many loops are being served, it those typically cut
people off, and it kind of impacts on the right of ship.
One thing I'd like to mention, it's going to difficult to see on the past few slides.
on the Chris River route between the canto and the public on 44 there's on average zero
boardings so that's that diagonal route you see on the zero what zero average daily
boardings yeah so there's no people board in there next this is your
floor city in Hernando routes is a nice stream mine routes which we like to see
for transit purposes but fortunately there's significant overlap on you go
So we like to look at this the way it preserves resources, but realign them to other more productive
stops in the network.
This is a component we use to identify immodisones, our mobility on demand, as I mentioned,
and we take the pair of transit origin destination pairs and identify where they're going to
more often.
And it identifies areas that have the most origin destination pairs that help us identify
ways to design the network.
This on the right, you'll see me talk about this in a few moments.
This is our Beverly Hills in Modizone.
So for the project, the recommendations we propose, which I'll get to a little bit more,
is the Streamline Cross County Connections on 44 to get away from some of that meandering
in the loops.
Streamline North South Connections on 44.
Sorry, 41.
Mobility on demand in Beverly Hills, Homassas and Citrus Springs, which has been identified in a few
of your plans.
And we think it would be beneficial.
So we'll get that here shortly.
I'll remove route redundancy and introduce bidirectional service to the areas of the highest
ridership.
And this is again based off all of our analyses, meeting with the people and the public, the
operators, and reviewing past studies and some of our operational metrics.
This is our recommended network.
There's two streamlined routes, provide bidirectional service to all the highest ridership
in the network, it provides plug-ins this next, but it provides coverage to most of the areas
that have high latent demand, which are high as transit need, and it also provides
two-inloaded options.
This is your streamline cross-county connector.
We can rename the convention when they implement this, but this is a bi-directional, very
streamline route, and it provides connections to major development around the Walmart,
areas in the Inverness and also provides a new service on Forest Drive which currently
lacks services, multi-family housing there and yeah, but it's a very attractive network
and it's much more streamlined what you have today.
This is your Inverness and Forest City route, pretty much the exact same route you guys have
today except it takes off that 44 and applies a 44 connection to the route I just showed
you.
Just the north-south streamlined connection provides coverage to all the major stops, provides new
code, bidirectional service to old forest city road in the Forest City Public Library, as well as
we've heard from the operators just north of the airport is the lack of service and that's
and here it's going to have a high pocket of population, so we serve in that as well.
This is your MOD option, Hernando, sorry, Homassassa, Beverly Hills, and Citroes Springs,
which is an area that lacks service,
and connections that are parts of the county.
This is an on-demand service that we're seeing a lot
happen throughout the country.
A lot of transit agencies have introduced this.
It's a cheaper pair of transit on regular basis.
Sounds like it would be operated in-house.
And yeah, it's a 15-minute service
that provides connections to folks
in the network and to the fixed rail.
So the benefits are streamlined by directional routes,
reduced number of transfers,
It retains your four vehicles and proves headway from 90 to 60 minutes as a huge improvement.
Expans coverage from major chip generators, introduces an MOD options and extends this span from 520 to 630.
And introduces a Saturday service which is lacking right now, which is 9AM to 3PM that can be expanded or extracted.
Next, this is the most critical graphic you see here.
So the blue graphic on the left, the bars are your existing network of a six year period with inflation.
That's what it costs today.
The green is, or a six year period with the COA network.
Most important component is the right.
It's kind of hard to see where you are.
But the state and federal funds are in, and blue, sorry.
And then the local contributions and the orange.
You'll see the highest jump and contributions in 2025 and 2026.
But overall, the low contribution is significant less than to introduce all of this.
We would highly recommend this to be introduced all the ones, but it based off this
group of capacity.
Overall, this is a very attractive network, and I think it would increase ridership.
So with that, I'll answer any questions, things you'll answer here as well, if she has any questions
to answer,
but hopefully you agree with some of these changes.
Thank you.
Board any discussion? Questions?
Commissioner Bays.
I love what you've presented, but I feel like maybe we need to take one step further.
I think maybe if we potentially work either sending a letter out to some of our employers, particularly more in the retail, fast food, to find out from the applicants, do they have transportation?
would transportation benefit them for a different bracket of hours, or we could actually maybe
work that even through our chamber network as well. But I think that would help us. I'm hearing
some of that. I've had people in floral city. They don't realize that they can't get a bus.
It's not necessarily on our route, which have to call schedule and appointment to get it. It may not be for those working hours, but I think this is another way that maybe we can help with getting people back into the workforce is providing this transportation, but we need to know who needs it and where it needs to go and what hours are best for them. So I think we just need to kind of hone in on that a little bit more.
Yes, so what's this kind of, I'm going to introduce some comment on that.
So we did a operational analysis as of the part of this,
but we also looked at the on-demand component of that.
So we introduced some of the questions to writers.
As you hear me mentioned, also to the operators.
So if this gets implemented, there's going to be adjustments in the schedule.
I think there's some, yeah, there's definitely some leeway involved in that.
And I would encourage that once it gets it implanted to make sure that it's a component
to make it get addressed.
And you can easily do it on a survey, be an app or anything like that.
And we've done that in the past on a few of our products.
So, there's an app for it?
Yeah, we can introduce a survey monkey app that gets sent out to some of the employers, you
can be passed along to their managers and they can send it out to their employees or
could be posted through how we've done it with the transit agency
with on our online or even do it.
Another more advanced survey where we could go out and see
some of the folks at some major events or something like that.
Yeah, I would highly recommend, as this is implemented,
definitely reach out to make sure the timeframes
are correct points of schedule and gets solidified.
So, I'm probably.
Thank you.
Commissioner Davis.
I thought it was a great presentation.
I kind of nerded out over realigning everything
to be a lot more efficient. It was some really good minutes to pick you back on what Commissioner
Bay said. There's also been some discussions about making sure that our youth gets
were a pretty spread out county and we have 25-26% childhood poverty that our younger
youth that are below working age have the ability to get to for example YMCA is in the center of
the county, the big one but then there's also one in Copeland Park and the Christopher and they're
one in Inverness. And so having a place where kids can go do something that's really fruitful
in their lives would keep them out of trouble and engaged and more likely to do well in
school. But then there's the big problem of the juniors and seniors in high school who are trying
to make money in, they don't have a car and all of that. So it gets difficult. And so I think that
that's a good thing for us to continue having this conversation. But this is a great start.
Yeah, and again, I think it provides significantly more coverage to what you are today if you hear me mentioned it's
Actually, I don't know if I 60
It goes from 90 to 60 minute headways. Yes, but no breaks. So if you were to board a bus just for an example at
10 o'clock in the morning you have to wait 90 minutes. This is just repetitive. So it's a lot more improved more improved no work and then if
publishing us in an amount where it could be down to 30 minutes, then there's no changes
that need to be made to the service that would just be adding additional vehicles, but
that's later on down the road.
Thank you.
Did you wish you're finnicking?
Efficiency is good.
Thank you.
Everybody loves you.
Come on.
Well, you have it eight, eight, 98, and that was 1989 was updated on the average weekday
warnings.
It's, it's time for the APC data for the average weekday data warnings between 2019 and 2022?
Yes.
So, do you know what that total number is for people using the system?
I don't have a total number off top of my head, but I know it's increasing.
A lot of agencies will see around the network or around the country are starting to get
to that like 75% mark from pre-COVID.
However, with this, the change should increase that a lot, especially providing more coverage.
I'm not exactly sure how many of the zero boardings there are, stop-wise on the map, in relation
to the total boardings, so I can't 100% answer that question, but.
And then just for public, 75% of this is state and
been really funded and then it costs local county tax burden is 25% correct.
Correct. Okay.
And then the document will be published, so some of that ridership
information will be available in the documents just to
include in here, I think. Thank you so much.
I just want to say I appreciate what the work that went into this, I know that you only touched on about less than half of this whole report.
So it is a very interesting report. I would encourage any of my fellow researchers or readers to dig into this.
It's very helpful. I of course love it because with the traffic burden that we're feeling now with our found growth.
You know, if we could get more people writing buses, it's less vehicles on the road, less
chances of accidents, and like Commissioner Davis touched upon, you know, there's a lot
of children.
We're going to be opening up a lot of service industries in the center of the county and it
would be great if some of these children, these young adults, can get efficient ways
to and from work.
So I really appreciate it.
I enjoyed reading the report and thank you for your time.
Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it. There's any more questions for free and not, I appreciate you.
Give me a sign to present this today. Thank you so much. Thank you.
Okay. H2.
All right, this is an application for a street vacation. This is a request to vacate an alley in the
unit. Homessastic unit number one. And this is a location that is on the southwest corner of
of a road in U.S. 19, the east-west there that you're seeing that is an alley in the north
south that are drainage and utility easements. So this is what the alleys and easements look
like. They're very hard to see on site but they are there. This is a big part of the easement itself.
There are some drainage areas here and I'll show that in a moment. This is the alley that you can
see that the adjacent property owners have kept their fence out of the alley so good for them but
It's clearly not being utilized at this time.
And this is some of the drainage structures
that were in the drainage and utility easement.
So you see in the staff report, the applicant
had a lot of hoops to jump through
because of these existing drainage easements
and drainage structures.
Our public works department work very hard
to look at an underground vault that was there
and had to do some TV, view the line and stuff.
I am not an engineer.
I just know it was very complicated.
They have concluded, however, our public works staff
that they have no concerns now with this particular vacation
and it will not affect drainage in the area.
They are going to add a condition of this particular investigation on this building permit
before you.
This is for a proposed self-knowledge on the site, which is what's necessitating the vacation.
So staff has no concerns on this particular application.
Utility companies in the area have also expressed no concerns.
There is a recommendation of approval from staff and state health staff.
Thank you, Joanna.
So
this is the public hearing portion of this agenda item H2 and I need to open it up to public see if anybody is in favor or against this project SV-22-3 would anyone like to speak on this either for against going once going twice
close the public portion of this board. What is your
Madam Chair wishes here on H2.
Madam. Motion to approve SB-22-03-Logan vacate
easements and alleys. Authorize the Chairman to
execute the Resolution and record it in the public
records. I have a motion by Commissioner Davis looking
for a second. Second by Commissioner Finnegan is
any public comment.
Man, you don't need to know.
Not again.
See, none.
All in favor.
Say aye.
Opposed.
Say nay.
Passes 4-0.
Very good.
H3.
Julianna.
H3 is also a street vacation.
We're trying to vacate a portion of West Garden Street.
This is located in the town side of Crystal Park.
So this is it on paper.
You can see on the paper.
It's definitely West Garden Street is there.
M.E. Stip North Bay Avenue, there's Turkey Oak on the North side there.
This is what it looks like from the area that certainly is not developed, and you'll see that here that's the street.
You would never know a street is here.
The applicant is the house to the left side of this picture, and they understand it half of the road if this is a crew will go to the adjacent law on the right side of this picture.
So there are no concerns with this application, utility companies have also expressed no concerns and staff and state health staff are recommending approval.
Thank you.
Is there anyone from the public that would like to speak on SV-23-01, vacating a portion of West Garden Street?
Welcome.
My name is Rachel Lervin, I live on Bay Avenue.
And I did not understand what this meant when I got the letter, but what impact is that going
to have on more traffic coming down Bay, which is a dead end road, so is it to open
it up and make it go from Bay over to Olive?
I mean, what is the purpose of vacating it?
And do you have any other questions and what we'll do is we'll I'll have Joanne address your questions.
Okay. And is it going to is this for further development later? That was another question.
Okay. Okay. Thank you. Thank you.
Is there anyone else that would like to speak on this? Please step forward.
You'll fill out a green card and you get three minutes.
I'm Kathy Adams. I'm the owner of that property on the left. I'm going to say an I.
No, to answer your question, Rachel, the reason we're vacating that is so that there cannot be a road run through right next to our house.
It'll help us in the future and no development is proposed just what you see is what it's going to be.
It's just that there can't be a road by our house.
And you can't really develop on that half of the week.
No, it's 20 feet.
Okay, thank you.
Thank you.
Madam Chair, I would like to speak on this.
Seeing none, I'm going to close the public portion of this agenda item H3.
Chair, board, what is your pleasure?
Madam Chair, I'm motion to approve to authorize the Chairman, Exkeeth Resolution for SV-23-01,
clerk to record the Resolution in the Public Records.
I have a motion by Commissioner Davis.
I'm looking for a second, second by Commissioner Baze.
Is there any further board comment?
And did you get all your questions?
Okay, very good.
Thank you.
Is there any further board comment?
Seeing none, all in favor say aye.
Opposed, say nay, that passes 4-0. Congratulations.
H4. Is it 145? Yep. Okay. H4.
CHW presentation on county road 486. IMA boundaries.
Hello.
Mr. Chair.
Just here to introduce CHW who is our consultant that will discuss the 486
interchange with the new Parkway extensions.
I'm going to answer any questions, and leave a discussion next time.
Very good.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Hello.
Good afternoon.
It was a second to do the change over here.
I'm Craig Brasier with CHW.
This has been a new panoraker with airs, part of the consulting team.
Also members of the team we weren't here today are Avis Craig, who is a local planning consultant
as well as Chris Donnelly architecture.
So with that, we can start the presentation.
So,
the project at hand is the county row 486 interchange management area.
Obviously, the parkways being extended, there will be an interchange here.
The county has hired us to look at plant policies and land development regulations
to address future growth along this corridor.
As expected, the new interchange will increase likely increased traffic along this corridor.
So the idea of the policies that we're going to propose to you will increase the quality of development along this corridor while still bringing economic development and job creating uses.
Up into this point, we've been focusing a lot of our attention on the public outreach and public participation,
component of the process. We want to gather as much information as possible from the community,
year the local experts, we're the ones who are hired to then take that information and create these policies,
and development standard based on what we hear from the community.
So at this point we had one open house workshop, which was well attended by more than 250 people.
Then we also held more focused individual or not individual, but in smaller groups, stakeholder meetings,
with the development community, with the institutional uses, with landowners, with city staff,
because while we are county staff, while we have worked closely with growth management through this process,
we also wanted to make sure we were hearing from engineering, public works, parks,
all the other departments as well, so we've gathered all this information and we kind of wanted to come to you today to give you an update on that public outreach and public participation process and as well as show you the boundaries of the area that we're considering and get your buy-in and get your feedback and get your input on that so that we can move forward and get into the more specific uses and standards of the project.
In addition to the in-person public outreach and meetings that we conducted, we've also got an active website, which Benoy and his team have been monitoring and they created and they updated.
And so everything that we've done at the workshop, we've replicated on the website so that if you weren't able to attend in person, you can go to the website and fill out surveys, visualization, preference surveys, give us feedback, just open comments.
And today we've had over 900 people go to the website and we've had more than 300 people download information from the website.
So we feel that there's been good use of the website and we hope that that will continue because the website will stay active throughout the life of the project.
We'll continue to update it.
On there now you can find a series of maps about the property and things that we're looking at things that we've taken into consideration.
You can find minutes from all of the workshops and stakeholder meetings that we've had so far.
You'll find it overall schedule on there.
And then there's a general map where people can go on and just place comments and give us information about what they know.
Because that's one of the most helpful things is the more information we get put in,
the more we have to work with and hopefully the better the output will be.
So with that, this is a map.
Here this is an example of some of the information you can find on the website.
This is kind of taking in everything that we know today, and trying to show it all on one map.
So if you want me to, I can give the specific website address for this page, but also you can go to the growth management website.
And there's a link directly on the growth management landing page.
But one of the things we really wanted to look at today were the proposed boundaries for the interchange management area,
where these policies and developments standards will apply.
So we're looking at a couple of options.
Here's one that's linear focused along the 486 corridor.
And we know that there's a lot of development that's already planned and in the works on the
north side, however, we felt that it was important to include that in the boundaries for
in the future if this development would just fall out if some development orders were
to expire, or if redevelopment occurs at some point in the future.
the coplan and the policies and the land development codes standards that we're creating last
you know, much longer than projects do sometimes. The other expands a little bit because we
think there is some opportunity and a pocket created by the Parkway Extension in the south of West
corner of this red area here that we're looking at to create some what we're calling.
Boyman
that maybe better position to take advantage of the parkway and the transit options that it offers,
because a lot of those light industrial, light manufacturing, research, laboratory type spaces need
close access to long distance for highways for transport, and we feel that there is some opportunity
there in that section. So as Benoy continues to show within the boundaries, whichever we choose,
we're looking at two different types of uses.
One would be a mixed use, which would be focused
along the 486 corridor in this residential,
a residential non-residential office, commercial retail
type uses, kind of in a town center.
Form is what our initial feedback was what we were hearing
that is kind of a desired development style
along this corridor.
The second part of that would be the employment center.
focused uses, which would be a little bit to the western end of the interchange management
area.
Like I said, in that pocket created by the Parkway itself.
And then the next one would look at that expanded boundary.
And this is the one that we would probably recommend moving forward with so that you can
take full advantage of the opportunities created by this new interchange.
So we were hoping today to just open up the discussion with you as a, you know, the indecision maker gets your feedback or any questions that you may have and then we'll return to you in a few months.
And I believe the next slide is a schedule if you wanted to go one more slide kind of showing when this started.
And if not, we started back last summer.
We're planning to go well through this summer and into the fall so that's kind of a, you know, a very general and we'll continue to update this schedule as we move through the process.
But there again, the website which is county road 486.imad.com.
And that's county road spelled out 486.imad.com.
Or you can find a link directly from the growth management landing page.
But all that information, pretty much everything I showed today is on the project website,
and we'll continue to add information and keep that updated as we move forward.
But I'd be happy to answer between myself and the noise we should be able to answer whatever questions you have.
Thank you, Mr. Beshear.
Brasher, yes.
Yes, okay.
I get it all done.
I'm Sleva, sorry.
Sir, could you put your slide three on for me?
I think it's going to be the same
project objectives.
Yeah, I think somebody has to put the presentation back on for us.
There we go.
So go, I want to see the picture.
Oh, you can't see the picture.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
It's kind of white.
It's more white water.
On ours, we can't read the words.
You can't see the picture.
So I'm going to put it different.
And I've always felt, this is my district.
I've always felt native Floridian, I saw this happen in my neighborhood growing up there in Sarasota,
and what they did by the hospital is they had shops, and then above that they had the shop owner
could live above it, and it kind of looks like that, and is that part of like the,
is that in your
Yes, I believe so that is the well from what we were here in some of the feed back that we were getting that is a desired development form
One of the specific uses are a
Specific development that was used as an example was the town of Tioga, which is an actual county
Which we're very familiar with because our offices in the Gainesville area
So we've done work all in that area on very familiar with Tioga and it's a project that's turned out wonderful
It's beautiful and everyone who sees it says, yeah, that's what we want
You know, that's what we're looking for.
So yeah, we're trying to do a few things with these policies.
Obviously, we want to respect the development rights
that people currently have along the corridor.
We want to encourage enhanced development
and elevated development style and then offer some incentive
and send it for going beyond that
and creating even more publicly accessible uses
and benefits in this area.
And those are the kind of details that will work through when we get into crafting
the policies.
But yeah, that is the type of mixed use town center concept that we're working for along
the corridor.
And that picture itself was an example of what we use at our workshop.
So we had a visual preference survey.
So we had different things that affect development such as building placement and building
form, which that picture was likely taken from, as well as landscaping, as well as
parking and parking location and what parking lots can look like.
So we wanted to get people's feedback on what they liked and what they didn't like.
So not all the pictures were nice, but we also, it was important to us to find out what people
didn't like about certain development styles and architectural form was one of the categories
for the visual preference survey.
And if there are people who would still like to provide input on that survey, each one of
categories is on the website as well so you can go and give us feedback.
Well, I appreciate that. This is literally in my backyard.
Okay. Right in my backyard.
So obviously, you know, I've known this was happening when I bought my home.
I knew this was coming eventually.
25 years ago we knew this was happening.
I just would want it to be as painless
and as welcoming the part of the community, not, you know, obviously I don't want to
pay for mail in my backyard, which we're not going to get, but I love that you have
already reached out to the community, having 200, respond the first time is fantastic. I appreciate
all the work that you're doing, and if you're looking for a consensus for me, like I said
This is my backyard.
I would like to see option 2 where we incorporate that Duke energy easement and sanction road.
So thank you, sir.
All right.
Board?
Yes, ma'am.
I too would like to see option 2 included as well.
I do want some points of clarification.
I believe I know the answer is to all of us, but for public record, there is, you know,
I blew up on Google Maps and really looked at that.
looks like there's basically many farms sort of farmsteads, and then there's that one triangle
that looks like an actual neighborhood.
So what happens to all of them when we do the overlay?
And there's some discussion about especially as it relates to also the Pine Ridge neighborhood
to the north, how you treat development adjacent to existing neighborhoods.
That would definitely be something that's incorporated and there will be buffers and
compatibility standards that may also include building height within certain distance.
There's a number of techniques we can use to enhance compatibility between new and existing
development.
So that will definitely be part of the draft that we bring back and we'll be looking
from your feedback and your direction at that point as well.
So this is early on.
We wanted to make sure before we got too far down a road with the two different types
of uses being the mixed use kind of this town center development as opposed to something
that's a little bit more employee-focused such as, you know, like I said,
light manufacturing, light industrial, laboratory and research type uses that can take advantage
of the access to the highway, which may have a little bit developed, different development
form and different development standards associated with it, but it won't be as, you
know, visible when it is upfront on the corridor.
Well, I assume the other commissioners got this email because it's not my district and
I got it, I think he's in your district.
He said he lives near Sugar Mill and he had,
I think, 90 decibels on the sound meter with the suncoast.
And that's what the state is the one that decided
where it was going and did the planning and installation
and all that.
And I have to say, it's a tough pill to swallow.
If you're not getting an eminent domain,
but you're living right next to it.
I understand.
Industrial light industrial and employment center
is spot on perfect for next to a freeway it's perfect and that's that was the feedback we were
hearing especially from the business and the development communities if that would you
know understanding some of the difficulties that come along with the parkway extension but
there there are some opportunities created and that is one that has been identified through
our public engagement process. I'm sorry to the residents for that I mean again it was the state
But the only upside is that commercial property
goes for a lot more than residential.
And there is a silver lining, hopefully there's
a benefit down the line for some property on a suit.
This was a tough conversation to have publicly
but I wanted to.
And the workshop, the initial workshop
was those conversations we understand
that everybody was happy and we were trying
to explain the role that we were here to play.
And the point that the county was actually trying to get ahead of the future development that is going to result from this extension.
And as time has gone on, as the project goes on and we hope to keep that engagement and that conversation going so that still if there's anyone who doesn't understand.
In addition to the workshops, the stakeholder meetings we also have had a number of direct emails and a number of direct calls where we've had the opportunity to talk directly to citizens.
and hopefully help them understand a little bit more about the process and where this is going.
And that it's, we still got quite a ways to go and there will be much more public engagement as we go forward.
Thank you.
You're, are you done?
Can you show your fin again?
Thank you.
You answered my questions about buffering.
It seems like we really, in the mixed-use area, won a high-end look.
And I love the idea of the Employment Center.
I'm just wondering, do you have that vision to keep that high?
And luck with landscaping, or how I would like to see that kind of flow in, they're kind of have that plan.
There are, well, that's, that's the details that we're going to get into, but we want to, we definitely
want to make sure that y'all were on board with that approach before we got too far down that road. So, I
know, I do appreciate that very direct feedback. But yeah, there's just a difference in the nature,
right, just the functionality of some businesses and these employment type uses. This is different than
a next-use residential commercial retail office development.
So we can't factor in and we can utilize landscaping
and even building signage, signage absolutely,
signage was something that we heard a lot of from all angles
that can be incorporated.
And you know, but there are some benefits of exposure
from the part way that those types of uses will benefit from
that actually are detrimental to residential,
or like we were talking about, but those uses can actually
see it as a bit of this because of some skillfully place
signage and landscape standards that make it look nice.
Because one of the things that we've always looked at
as a goal here that's driving this is now with this new interchange.
We understand that this may be some people's first encounter
with citrus county if they use the parkway and they get off
at this interchange.
It may be their first experience.
And that's what we were hearing from the staff is that they wanted it to be a positive experience, obviously.
And to have quality development around this interchange, that's really one of the driving goals of what we're trying to achieve.
And that's the same discussions you've been having around the other interchanges as well.
I mean, I'm only one of five, but I've seen a light industrial look very nice, like a park area with the light industrial.
and that would be more of my vision as to see everything when someone drives by this, even an
employment center, they say, wow, they said you're scouting to this, right?
I was just specifically why we included an architecture firm on our team is so that when we get
down to crafting that level of detail in the development standards, we hope that that's what
we're trying to achieve. Thank you. Anything further?
Can I show you something?
Are you ready?
I already.
This is probably some for you and some for staff, but I like to look at things maybe in a
little bit bigger picture.
What I'd like for us to look at is demographics that currently exist today.
How many households are already developed?
How many vacant lots do we have in some of those areas?
I'd like to look at traffic patterns taking into consideration what's going to be built down
for 86 and how people would traverse.
I think it's also important to look beyond that.
We have a development that's going to go in over on Brock Crusher Road.
As you, I kind of eat, sleep and breathe, transportation.
So I had Walt today.
We sit down.
We really kind of looked at it.
If we think about the intersection on 44 in St. Coast Parkway,
and we have an IMA going around that.
I'm a little concerned when I look at what's going to happen
between that going west, down to 486,
and how people are going to travel.
How we tie in, I know we're going to have some other transportation
later today, but I think we have to really
take into account developments, the capacity of the road.
I'm very concerned that 486 is forelane right now.
We only have a median in there that we can take out.
And frankly, it would look ugly if you take the median out.
But that's the last chance we have is to make that
and expand that road.
So if we do this, either we're going to have to teach people
how to slow down a little bit,
enjoy life.
But we need to be very careful in this planning.
And then I think the way that we go about it is we really do the deep dive.
We look at where people are, do they have one car to cars, are they retired, are they
of working age, really go into the nitty gritty details of all of this.
I think about the expansion of the other roads that we're going to collect the roads that
we're going to have to increase the capacity.
And for those that are setting out there, I want you to listen very carefully.
19, 44, 41, art, state roads.
They fund those roads.
They fund the capacity and they fund the maintenance of them.
So every time you come to us and you say you want us to expand a road or you want us to put a new road in,
We have to come up with a 50% match, that's to build it, and then we have to come up with
the money to maintain it.
So when you think about this some coast parkway going in, and it goes all the way out to
19 when it's done, and how you're going to move in and about this county, and I'll take
it one step further when you get on, right now there's a 60% discount, if you're using
that with frequency on your toes. I think we should take it further to the governor and say
if you're using it within your county it becomes free. Amen. This will reduce our burdens
for maintenance and for expansion. We have an estimate to widen 491 all the way down to 200 because
that's evacuation route. It's a hundred and sixty-five million dollars and
that's on our backs.
We have to come up with 50 percent of that. Now let me tell you, I've taken my heels and I've gone
all the way to Calhassie and I'm like, you put the evacuation sign up there. We would shirt and
certainly like your help with this.
So I'm saying all of this because I think it's really important.
I hear it loud and clear every day when I go out and I talk to the people of the county and
the citizens and they tell me we don't want growth.
Well, growth is here, it's coming but we can plan smart and we need to be very cautious in
how we develop our collector roads and develop our businesses and what they're going to
look like and how we're going to pay for
it.
Let's be, we're going to, we're going to do this right.
I've heard you, we're going to do it right.
We're not going to stop growth.
It's coming.
It'd be no different than one of you studying out there
with a house.
And you've got three people living in it.
And I'm said today, I'm going to create a administrative
regulation that when you sell it, only one person can buy that
house.
You're only going to allow one residence living in it.
Well, it just doesn't work like that.
people buy land for investments, they put things up, but we can have a plan on how we want
them to develop an invest in our community, and I think that we want the highest
invest use for every single piece of land that we have, because nearly 50% of our state
our county is protected.
So I'm excited about what we're doing, but I really, really want us to look at all of those
roads, all those things, all the way people move throughout this county and what
how it's going to tie in. I don't think we can just look at these individually.
I don't think we can look at 486 individually. I don't think we can look at 44 or
Cardinal or 495. I think we have to take the map. We have to lay them out on the bigger picture
and know who the people are here currently, know the developments and what we're attracting
and how we can best serve. I'll leave it with one final thought. We need industry.
Industry and job opportunities beyond retail is what we need.
In 2010 to 2014, your tax
burden from Duke, they were a contributor, a 45% of your tax base. Today they're 15,
and
going down further. So we have got to shift that back. We have to have opportunities to keep our
young people here and to create jobs because jobs is what transfers the burden away from the
residents. So we've got to be very serious and very directed as we're planning this county out that
we're going to create job opportunities that have more of an industrial or light manufacturing
component to it because that only creates a 30-cent
per dollar burden on us.
Madam Chair, did you get all that?
I do.
Told you it was going to be long.
I warned you.
And I don't know how much is in your control,
but if you can get that list checked out.
I really, really appreciate it.
I agree with you.
And if you didn't get it, they're coming up later.
I don't say it all over.
I do want to say like,
I'm going to just say this, it is, it is in my backyard, I have known it was going to be
in my backyard, just like most of us citizens that have lived here more than 25 years.
So I'm not saying, no, not in my backyard.
I'm saying, please be cognizant of us neighbors that are there and that we do it properly,
like a Mr. Bayes said, I also would like to see some of the pressure off of, in my district,
I have the smallest district.
I have the most people, I have some of the most vulnerable people, people living on very,
very, very fixed incomes.
And if we could take some of that pressure off of these people so that we could pave the roads
and take care of them that they would have the quality of life and that they're social security
could not be spent so much on taxes and things. I would love to see it properly done with light
industry. I've said this since 2018. I don't know. Food, food industry is a light industry.
I would love to see a chocolate factory in my district. It would make it smell so delicious. But
that, you know, I'm being fresh, but those are light industry jobs that pay well quality jobs with
insurance and with that when we bring that in like you said and we know how we're going to move
them around let's move them around on the sun coast parkway take the burden off of our roads take
the burden off of our wallets you know commissioner base can she can go to church on some of this
stuff she'll preach to you and she'll say it but she's right on a lot of it and I hope you
and all of us know what growth is coming and we just want to do it right.
And I want it to look pretty.
I want it to look like that that building belongs there.
It fits in with a nature coast.
It is not some big eyesore, so thank you.
And you've got a big job on your hands.
And I encourage every one of you here today to go to the website and vote.
and take the control back, you know,
we're like a Commissioner Finnegan said, she's one vote.
I'm one vote, and we, but you, you all,
the citizens of Citrus County can say,
this is what I want and help us out.
So thank you so much.
Absolutely, we appreciate the direct feedback
and the conversation, and I would echo that,
and please go to the website or contact us in any way,
note that not everybody has direct access to the internet and that's fine, you can pick up the phone and call us
and we'll be more than happy to talk to you or find a better way or another way to get your information.
And I did not get your preference, Mr. Baze, of option one or two and I don't remember if I got you did you, too.
Okay, thank you.
Okay, so you got a clear.
Foro, there you go.
All right, that's good.
All right, we'll see you soon.
Fourth and prosper. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
Got a consensus there. Okay, so now we are on H5.
Time's certain.
Thank you, sir.
Aaron.
Donna, can you you want to take that out there, sir? Thank you.
Good afternoon, Madam Chair and Commissioners.
I'm Erin Doran, Management and Budget Director.
We're here today to present.
Since the CIP for 2024 to 2008, I just want to say real quick that this is not possible without management and budget team, specifically staff, but we're looking for assistance management and budget director and the Colburns and Georgia broker in the back there budget analyst.
I also want to thank you to the departments every year we do this, we look five years
out in this particular document and all the departments try to convey to us the projects
that they want done, then they try to convey their budget, we try to understand it, we try
to make it fit, then we try to convey all that information back to you.
It's a lot of back and forth, it's a lot of information, then we try to make it accessible
and transparent.
So it does take quite a bit of work.
Erin. Yeah. Gentlemen, there's some seats up front if you'd like to sit down. You've been standing back there. If you if you would like a seat, I keep looking at these empty seats. So. Sorry. Thank you.
Just feel bad for them standing there.
So, just quickly, the total budget for the 2024 CIP is a little, well, almost $7,79,
$1,892,822,82, to slightly under $80,000, and then this is just for the year of 2024.
At this time, we're not asking you to vote or approve this CIP, that is done in September when
we bring you the budget.
This is just for you to look at those projects that are requesting funding in 2024, make sure
Those are still the projects that you're interested in got accomplished your goals that nothing's missing
This kind of briefly goes over
What we put in the capital improvement program so it's an expenditure
Over $50,000 and it usually has a useful life of 10 years or more
Sometimes I can vary depending on the projects. It looks at
projects, and equipment, it allows for evaluation of the needs of the departments.
We also look at financing, so do we have the funds in their current budget?
Is it something we have to grow and get financing for?
It also feels a requirement of a state statute and it serves for public relations and economic
development.
The first department is the general fund.
So I'm not going to read over every project unless you would like me to.
These are the projects, however, that are being requested for general fund taxes.
There are a few that I wanted to point out, county transit buses, that is totally grant funded
next year, that's $600,000. We also have some debt service, so in all of the slides, the debt
services in blue, so that's an obligation we have to pay that, unfortunately, that's just how it is.
Every project listed in green as you go through the slides are all new projects that are being requested.
So, we have constitutional officer renovations of 480,000.
On that particular page, you will see that various constitutional officers have made requests.
What they've requested and the total for those projects.
We have an emergency operations chiller that needs additional funding, judicial infrastructure
replacement that's actually funded by court fees.
On the next slide, we have the Latino government building chiller number two.
That is actually an ARPA project and they are actually requesting additional funding, so it's
to be more than they thought last year when it was in the budget. After that, our all projects
that were added, this year to the general fund, a lot of them are refurbishments for HVACs.
There are some that are part of your strategic plans that we can't have government building space
need that list of $15,000. New Court House space need study. That was also part of this
strategic plan. There's the morgue. I know Commissioner Davis has been speaking with you all
about that. This is what was budgeted on the high side and it would be over two years, at least
at this point until we get further information. May I? Oh, sure. Just to be clear, because that's
six county project. That's also more or less mandated like we can't not do it.
So. Yes, it's part of the medical examiner. We have an agreement with them.
Yes.
But if we did so point of clarification since you're the budget director.
If we do the.
Build the suit with a least option, you know,
to buy later that would reduce the capital outlay would it not when it just end up being a higher
Well, it depends on how they choose to fund it because remember they have like five different options.
Are we gonna fund it for every person we send that has an autopsy. Are we going to do it per county divided up?
So we'll have to see what the board chooses.
But in any event, this is our worst case scenario. Yes.
Thank you.
And then there's a communications plan. That was also a part of your strategic plan.
That is $200,000.
And then just so you know any of these projects that are listed in fiscal year 24 when you actually look at the CIP book
They could have been funded in previous years and cash carried forward or this could be the first year of funding
And they could need additional funding like the mort. We did that over two years because we know it's going to take them a while
The next slide is public buildings. This is just all the debt service that we currently have on our buildings
I know when financial advisor was here, she kind of went over that service when that was coming off and how that was secured.
Get Aaron.
I'm not going to look this way at Commissioner Bays because she'll have a lot to say about this.
But I'm going to throw it out there.
Wouldn't it be nice to look at all the needs that we have with the county?
And instead of doing piecemeal, let's address this and come up with a real plan.
Because as soon as this building was built, evidently it wasn't.
We were building it because the taxpayer say, we only want to spend this much money.
So we built it to that moment in time.
We can no longer build things to today's moment in time.
We have to come up with a broader plan and what are your thoughts about that and I'll go ahead and start with you because I know you have a lot of thoughts.
And they're all good thoughts, mind you.
Well, I will just tell you, I have heard plenty that there's never enough space for constitutional officers.
the judges want more space.
I am not for putting another dime into any of this.
I think we have to have a master facilities plan throughout the entire county.
I would like to see us work with the city of Vemperness
to talk about how we can redesign all of our government buildings,
houses for efficiencies under one roof.
That means we would find a location here.
Put everybody under it.
That would then put the sheriff's office and the
Stobas building.
That would put them back on the tax rolls.
It would also put the clerks building back on the tax roll.
Next to the public sub there.
And I think we just have to work the numbers.
we have to figure out what we're going to put back on the tax rows and what's going to be
what's going to be generated out of that, that offsets action and the scales of efficiency
putting us all under one and stop putting band aids on this. I would also say that we should look
at trying to integrate the resource center back to Locantil and combining our workforce in one place.
I think we've got a couple of different options on the table
to potentially for reuse of that building.
One, either maybe that can become our mental health facility.
Or to, I know that the veterans' villages looking,
we've been in negotiations with them
for a contract up there on the hill to build that,
maybe we sell that building to them,
which is another option.
So that's those that gives us a west side east side
that gives us our center of our county, and I think we start to consolidate and we have the
scales of efficiencies of operating collaboratively together and not spending this money
just shuffling the deck, you know, as they say, putting lipstick on a pig.
So if I can clarify, do you mean when we're looking at the Licanto government building
in the New Court, how sweet he's putting everything together.
Now I'm saying here in the city of Inverness,
if we take the sheriff, the stove all building
and what the clerk is using over by publics
and we end this area that we're in
and we build one facility here somewhere in downtown Invers.
We need to work with our partners
in the city of Inverness to come up with a plan for that.
We have no idea of what they're even planning for their city,
But we need to work collaboratively with them to figure out what their vision is, what that looks like but that gives us the opportunity to put these buildings that are setting the sheriff and the stove of building and the other one back on the tax rolls.
Because I do believe this is my firm belief that I believe that if we do that one between the sheriff and the stove all building, I think we would get a really nice hotel over here on the lakeside.
I think that gives a real opportunity, so then work with putting those entities into one building but still go ahead with the projects for LeCanto.
I don't have a problem with LeCanto government building, but I think what we need to do before we start doing groups and things at the Resource Center.
We need to see if how our space needs are in LeCanto potentially moving that group of people
to the LeCanto government building and then either figuring out if that works for a medical
center or the mental health center. So we're not building one. Maybe it's something we can
repurpose and if it's not that, maybe we can sell that building to the veterans village group.
could be a possibility. I just think there's we need a master facilities plan. We have no idea
what we're doing. We're running in the dark here. We know that our sheriff says he needs
a new facility. His lease is running out. You know we you know we have growing pains and we
before we just keep putting money into buildings that are functionally obsolete we need we need to
have a real a look at this okay are there any other projects that you all I just have
really one quick question on here I'm a little confused when you have there is currently
radio debt service of 721,755 and I don't know what the page number is but on the next
when you have Radio Equipment Replacement of 362.
Right, so the previous debt is on
the...
We did, yeah.
That was back in 2014, so we were police radios,
but we also upgraded the radios and got
an additional six simulcast remote site and inverness.
The new one is that is coming off in November of 2024 and they're saying that radios are going to need to be replaced.
So the last one is for and that is on page 51 is a radio equipment replacement.
And so that's 130 mobile radios and 150 portable radios over a four year period.
So I think they're just trying to not get behind again.
So here's my question, what is the lifespan of a radio, what's the life expectancy of a radio system?
Barb is motioning to me, it's ten years.
This is the radio of the radio.
And then how long do we finance them for?
Well, this and new one, they're not looking to finance or looking to save the money over for your period.
How long was the last finance period?
It started in 2014, so it appears to be ten years.
because at one time we rolled a bunch of bad debt.
We were upside down in 2014 because I voted on that.
We rolled bad debt into that and that's the one thing that I'm going to tell you.
If we have something that has a lifespan on it, we should be able to figure that debt out
and pay for it on the lifespan and not be rolling upside down debt into it.
Yeah, I don't know who's rolled her say if something was rolled into that.
I can just tell you it was October 28th of 2014, and it matures November 11th of
2024.
Could you keep the cross-talk down a little bit this time?
Which is fine.
But I just, I mean, I want to be very clear that when we've got a capital investment, whatever
the lifespan is, we shouldn't have debt that extends beyond the capital of the lifespan of it.
Yes.
And when the financial advisor was here, that was one of the things they had mentioned
as well.
So any time we go out to do that, that is something they look at.
So I don't know what, what that was for, what happened then, but we want to make sure
when we bring you that proposed budget in July.
It doesn't have any other projects. You may want to wait for. So other than that, the community center,
regroup, are there any other ones that you may want to wait for that facility to plan to be completed before we budget for that?
Well, I want to piggyback on that because I, when I actually had in my mind, and I was thinking about this with the parkway,
We can do this right or we can put lipstick on a pig we I we've I've added up about five million dollars
And it's three different buildings
Three buildings that are not on the on our tax rolls and we're just going to keep doing this and keep doing this and
People are gonna say I don't have enough I don't have enough room
I need to expand this and it obviously all falls on the backs of us taxpayers
So at what point do we just say okay wait can we take a moment and you're and you're this is great
I really appreciate this report, but this is the first opportunity we as a board have been able to say to you hey
That $5 million this this this budget cycle and then next year the another five million dollars and the next year another
10 million dollars or whatever can we actually get a plan together and and get rid of some of these buildings
There's some constitutional officers that are in three separate buildings.
And you know, because previous boards decided this building was going to go, let's get
a plan, let's figure it out, and that's what I would like to see with our RCIP.
You know, what is the plan?
Again, not just for today, what's the plan for the next 10 years.
So, I really appreciate what you're saying about getting some of these buildings off the
tack, getting them back onto the tax rolls, you know, we've got buildings sitting on
that lake, that it's a beautiful lake, let's do something with that and generate something
that will help us rather than just, you know, let, let, let, let, I'm going to stop talking.
but so that's where I what I would like to see I don't know if that's something we can
accomplish in the next few months but I think there's three buildings I'm counting just
with five million dollars. So do you want us to I mean because obviously we can out of
project in there we could get quotes for a facility's master plan do I know that will be
done in a few months I can't imagine that it would be but we can go out and get a quote for
we can add it into the CIP, but again, we don't want to bring you a proposed budget with anything
in there that you may want to wait to do. If you feel like you're going to get rid of a building
or you may want to build a new one, that is just going to add costs. Like you said for the taxpayers,
that won't pay off in the end. Madam Chair, Mr. Bates. Well, like in here, I see constitutional officer
renovations at 480,000,
we've got, and I'm also going to ask,
what's the citrus central roof coating?
I mean, we just did that building.
So in 10 years, I mean, I would have to ask the facilities.
They're the ones that entered those projects.
I don't know if they went out and looked at it,
and it wasn't good.
I mean, I just think that's worthy of,
I mean, we spent a bunch of money renovating that building.
I don't know what was done to the roof at that time,
but you've got the judicial infrastructure replacement.
That's 211,600.
You've got, which is this building.
You've got one to, you got three new courthouse
refurbishments at $70,000 each,
you've got one, two, three, more roughly at $70,000 each
for this building,
you've got $580,000 into resurfacing the resource center parking lot.
I just think it's time, I mean, we may end up doing it, it may not be feasible, but what
I'm saying is it's time to look before we keep putting money into air conditioners and roofs
and paving lots and doing and changing out stuff.
Let's look to see what we can get done and what it means to put these buildings back on
the tax rolls.
Is it good?
Yeah.
I appreciate having a master plan because I know sometimes if there's always space needs
renovation we may look to go bigger. But for we completely go down a rabbit hole. If we are
giving out buildings we have to build one first. So that all goes on the taxpayers. So we
have to figure out where we're getting at money. I'm okay with a long range plan. If that's
you know the wishes of the board. But that's going to be wildly, wildly expensive. In the
meantime we can't not replace air conditioning and take care of our roofs and take care of
our buildings because let's face it, it's going to take us from inception three or four
years to get an animal shelter built, right? Imagine how long it's going to take if we're talking
about putting all of these government entities in one space and I don't see that being an
I'm going through my head where we're property could be maybe, but you just, you can't
start selling off buildings if you don't have any place to put, no, no, I understand that part.
I'm just saying that I think if we look at a master plan, there's, I think there's
a way to get this accomplished.
So, you know, if that would be the desire of the board planning is always great, but I
realize how many years that's going to take and there's no way, there's no way or
and I understand you can't have a price for a plate in a couple of months, because that would
take who goes there and engineering and how much space and what's the property going to
look like I understand this. So in the meantime, we're going to have to take care of the things
that we need to take care of. Now I had this conversation in my briefing the other day. I mean,
I don't know. I would have to go visit and talk to a lot of people. I don't think that the description
of the need of each one was enough for me like I can't verify some of these things.
Do they need to be done now? Can we push them next year or five years?
I'm not really sure. That's a little bit more digging that we're going to have to do.
Planning is wonderful,
but it's going to take a long time to get a whole master plan.
Great, and like we discussed in the briefing, if there are certain projects and sometimes
don't necessarily have all of the information, they just know, per se, it needs to be done,
or needs to be looked at, or we start saving for it. We can always go back to the Department
and ask for additional information, whichever ones that you need that for. But yes, we just want
to, when we bring you back this proposed budget, that it doesn't have something in it that you
don't want. That you're spending money on and then you ultimately tell us, that's not what
we want to spend the money on this. You're not saying you can't do it. Not saying we can't
still budget for it. And if you want to pull it out you can, but if we know now, that's up to you
all. Or if you want additional information, let me know if you want information on these projects,
we can get thought for you as well.
And I think that what I'm saying is obviously we have to fix a roof, we have to fix
air condition.
What I'm saying is this board needs to be the board that looks at this hard, because if
we don't have this conversation, it's just going to keep going down.
Somebody has to make that step, and I was doing the calculations like I said, there's
five million, half a million of that is refurbishing.
Some of that refurbishing, you know, can be put off, new carpeting, things, you know, we've
got $2 million for the Coke Billion, there are $3 million for the Coke Billion, half a million
for cord house refurbishment, refurbishment.
We have to have that discussion.
Do we want to continue going the next year and a half for me the next three years for you
of just keep adding to the repairs and instead of saying, let's take a beat, let's figure out a
plan and come up with it. Now, I know when I threw that out there, it was a conversation that
can't be brought, you know, just miraculously happened before this budget, but I needed the conversation
to happen. Because if there are some refurbishments, a half a million dollars that aren't really
necessary in this budget cycle, and we could figure out a plan and put that in that bucket
of future space needs. That's what we need to do. And, but again, I'm the same mindset.
I don't know what, you know, new courthouse, I want to chew 131 refurbishment. Is it new
benches? Is it carpeting? Is it? Or is it something like, you know, there's plumbing
you know, I don't know. A little bit more information would be helpful, but I definitely agree
we just have a lot of buildings that we own that are not on the tax rolls and they're getting
older and older by the day. So, I like staff to fix this. Can we share Davis?
So, I really appreciate what you've put together and I very, very much appreciate my colleagues
for being forward-thinking.
I'd always like to be out there forward-thinking as well.
And just think of the government inefficiencies of us being spread out all over the place, all over the county.
And Commissioner Bayes said it absolutely.
I've always wondered why we don't have a central complex for everything.
It just really makes sense for us to do that, and I do agree with her as well that this can all be figured out, you know, to your point, Commissioner Finnegan tonight.
We can't sink the ship while we're trying to figure this out.
But I think all of us up here, and I really do appreciate my colleagues.
I'll say that again. All of us up here are looking, and I think at least I can't speak for them on this.
that would encourage staff to think that long ball.
I know our new administrator absolutely does,
and paint that picture of what are we going to do
to make this more efficient, and more attractive.
You know, if you have a nice master plan,
government complex, then it's a lot more attractive.
Is Mr. Rubio still an audience?
He brought up, there he is, back wall.
He brought up, you know, making sure we have some sort of,
You know, modest stature, you know, stature or art element in the new animal shelter, so making it pretty and a nice place to go without going overboard, of course.
So anyway.
What would you like from us?
And I do have one other question, I'm sorry.
Where is County Road, 491 from Beverly Hills to 200?
Where is the widening of that?
Where is that in the master plan?
I believe that is on the 5 to 10-year project list, what Commissioner Bays had mentioned,
$165 million dollars. That was the one I had emailed the attachment for.
I thought that was 41. No, that's $490.
Oh, $490, okay. And I don't know, that's why I said I didn't know if that covered the entire area,
area you were looking for, but it does. I believe it's Pine Ridge out to 200. Right.
So that is the 165 million dollars in it.
We're going to have some bad wrecks on that road, so that needs to somewhere.
And I know Mary Jensen was discussing adding a project because this is a living document.
I can tell you we've changed it today.
We've already got Griggs for projects that are in here.
It continues to live.
So, there, I'm sure will be more projects in here and probably some taken out by the time you go to approve it in September, and we let you know what those are.
So, we were discussing adding something in here for that project, what that is, I don't know, because it is a lot of money and how we go about acquiring that or when we start that project, I know it's something she said they'd also talk to the MPO about.
So is there anything and we can go back to staff and we can ask them if there's anything and we do kind of when we're having the meetings if there's anything they can push that maybe isn't absolutely necessary for that next year if you want we can go back and have that conversation with them again and say hey can you take a second look at that is there anything would you like that done or is there anything you absolutely would not want to see budgeted for
I would like to see more information on a few items and I would like staff to think, okay,
if in a perfect world we were able to have a government complex in 10 years, what could be
pushed towards that goal? What could get us one step closer to that goal?
Yeah, I was going to say more descriptive. I think if something's on this list, it needs to
like sell it like your life depends on it. But what else I'd like to see is, you know,
like I sell whole barns on here. Well, that may be very necessary. Maybe there's nowhere in our
equipment's getting runes. I don't know that. But or maybe they're forecasting. So not only sell it,
but we absolutely needed this year or...
He needed within the next three years, or, you know, is there a timeline? Because I'm sure some of these things they know, like, hey, I really like it doesn't this year, but, you know, we need the roof reduffer, but it's not really a problem now. It's just getting old. It might last us another three to five years. I don't know. The ACs, how old are they? Are they really not keeping up? Or is it just, you know, we feel like they're timing out. So that's the type of information I want to see
because maybe there's a project that's pretty important,
but maybe it doesn't have to be done this year.
Okay, we will go back to the departments,
and for those projects that don't,
especially like the each-back projects,
we'll have them put in, you know,
if there are, I know years ago there were some
that, you know, there were a pair of costs,
had exceeded the cost of replacement.
So we'll have them look at that information in,
and, you know, we'll send that back out to you.
also ask them, you know, to consider if in 10 years we had a new space, would we need this
could it, and could it wait? So can we really wait or is it going to cause damage to the building?
And, you know, there's, and we can talk about it later, but, you know, there's a $94,000 for
soccer field lighting. Again, these prices kill me.
Perhaps we could even reach out to do
energy, you know, that'll be their client and see if, you know, they can be a better community
partner with us about certain things and maybe get some of these. I mean, that just jumped
out of me, $94,000 for soccer field lighting.
Yes, and if you want, do you want me to go through the rest of these sides or do you want
to?
I was going to real quick just to point out some, and then if you have some comments under
aviation, we just wanted to let you know the Inverness Airport Business Park, that is part
you know, your strategic plan. They put that 375 aside every year, just to keep going
just to put some money away for that. Also airport landscaping signs, that was part of
your strategic plan as well. I believe this first year is kind of like a design. They're
going to be coming to you looking for some guidance as to what you all want to see from
Parks and Recreation, the barge canal boat ramp that first one.
That's also part of your strategic plan and it does have some cash carry forward that you will see in the final book that comes to you in September.
The Artificial Reef, and handset number one, we were just notified that we did get that $1.2 million award.
So we've got that, further down we just wanted to point out that there is a four island trail park floating dock and a four island golf beach floating dock.
Those are two separate docks.
And then the Beverly Hills master plan that is part of your strategic plan and we're looking to fund that with impact fees.
The next one is storm water, and just that first project, that's the water shed
me an engine plan that we do with Swift Mud, it's an ongoing project.
We pay 50% they pay 50% so we continue to do that every year.
I'm not sure exactly what the Castle Lake flood mitigation is.
which is $500,000 under stormwater.
It looks like it was a project that was identified for flood mitigation.
It was documented by Swift Mud staff,
and County staff, the summer of 2021, when we had flood or flooding,
and it was prioritized due to the impact it had on the infrastructure.
I'd be happy to work with you.
I met with Congressman Bill Arrakis's office and there is a ton of money for flood mitigation from the federal level.
Do they have that? Is that going through him like the other ones or is that an actual ring?
If you let me know and I'll look into it.
You and I can go meet with them because there's various buckets of money from what I understand.
And it's pretty much this is like one of their number one things that they're after and there's a lot of money I think I got an email on it. I'll look for it and I'll forward it to you.
Okay, you can. I'd be great for it. Yeah, Mr. Bays.
The next slide is for transportation. We wanted to point out obviously annual road resurfacing that is part of your strategic plan and you all had decided to do that.
four tenths of the milk from transportation tax to add to rotor servicing and then they also have
a scop grant where we're getting about $1.6 million to help do that road. We're going to
try to fit all of these projects into their budget. However, generally we collect about $9 million in
gas tax and outside of the extra funding we're getting the projects come to about $13 million.
So we're going to look and see if they have any additional funds left at the end of this year.
Maybe a project comes in under, or they get a really great bid.
If we can't make it all fit, we will let you know when we come to you and then July of that proposed budget.
If there is something on here, after we speak with them and give them your direction that they still say they need.
But it can't be funded. They don't have the funds.
If you all want to fund it at that point from General Fund, you could.
And you said that we collect how much per year, about $9 million.
Okay, and there's a lot written about that.
Our gas taxes, what are they doing with our gas taxes?
Well, if we collect $9 million, but for fiscal year, 2023, 2024,
we have $18 million, $750,000 on the book.
So do the math.
The next slide is for libraries.
that first one is just that service for the floral city public library. The next one is a
lakes region library renovation. The library actually has 300,000 that is going to be donated
to them for this renovation and we were looking to see if the board might be willing to consider
ARPA funding for that other 300,000, the library can only
love you .333 mills. So for them to collect and reserve that kind of funding to
match that to get that renovation completed, it would take them quite a bit of time.
So we have that for your consideration, and we do have to bring ARPA back at some point to you to discuss some of the other projects we've heard you say you may or may not want to continue with.
Do you want to consensus today, or that would be great if you could have that?
Madam Chair, I'd make a motion for a consensus. I guess it really doesn't mean I could be a motion, but I will lead the consensus on that.
I think rough lines would be perfect and I agree.
I agree.
Mr. Finning in?
All right. Thank you very much.
See how easy that was?
Thank you.
The solid waste management is the next.
As you know, they're looking at a landfill expansion.
So that project went up about $2 million per year
because they're having to acquire some land.
There's the dozer and the compactor lease that's just,
you know, payments that we have to make.
And then this citizen's service area.
That is also, they're going to have to run
and make that when they do the landfill expansion.
So that was just recently updated last week
That will be about $5.1 million when all is set in done for the new citizen service area.
Utilities, water, and wastewater.
We just can't shake.
He should have to do this. This is the most fun.
I just like to eyeball.
So as you know, utilities get quite a bit of grant funding.
They do have some debts, so that is on here in blue.
They have those septic to sewer projects.
You'll see some of those say low and flash grants.
And what that is is basically they're looking to
do the assessments through the SRF program.
So that way utilities and they have to front the money.
They don't have to be the bank.
SRF will do that.
And then as they pay the money back,
obviously we will make the payment to SRF for that.
They have a few on here that are new to Imperial Gardens.
That was another grant we just received and anapolis Avenue force mean upgrades.
That is an ARPA project so other than that you know they're just doing every other
project everywhere.
And very successful at grades if something happens to Ken we're just going to stuffle and stick
them in that office and you know because we like learning on baking.
because I don't know if the public's $26 million and mostly it looked like, you know, grants, grants, grants.
Did you have fabulous job of that? And there are projects. It's one of those when you see it, it also makes you feel good because you know that it's, you know, a lot of it's really hoping the environment.
So, public safety is on the next slide.
This is our fire in our EMS, extremely important.
They have some things on there, new fire station eight.
For next year, that is just the design, they'll be looking at moving that station.
The fire apparatus equipment capitalists, again, some dead service we have to pay.
And then there are two new projects, are the fire trainings in our air pack replacements.
That is equipment that has to be replaced, and then the fire safety house replaces.
We all know how I feel about that.
Let's try to find some grant any.
So the next slide is your strategic element in summary.
These are the projects that we've identified in the CIP that, you know,
really back to your strategic plan from your meeting in January.
It says at the bottom additional funding in future years, obviously some of these, it's just the beginning.
I'm going to say all of them it's just the beginning.
And I'm sure as time goes on, they'll be probably more in there.
The next is a project summary.
This just compares next year, 23, 24 with this year, 22, 23.
and these are just all of the various departments or really sections we divide the
projects up into so you can kind of see comparing look at them. The last slide we've
kind of already done this but any projects that you don't want or that you feel
need to be incorporated. Let us know we will then like I said try to tie it all
into the budget, try to get it all to fit within the guidelines you've provided
us previously we will bring that back in July and then hopefully it's everything we want we
can get you that additional project and then it will be with the budget in September for adoption.
Here in thank you. Thank you and because I was the next one up I was tagged
because apparently during the time certain each one yeah we get a vote on it yeah yeah I'm going to
Thank you, and H5H6, Ms. Mary, Mary Jensen, Walter Easton,
Presentation, Regional Travel and Road impacts.
Why they're coming up, board, we heard the presentation on H1 and I was a remiss and not
asking calling for a vote. I need a motion to accept and approve the comprehensive operation
analysis draft final report. Looking for a motion for H1.
Madam Chair, motion to approve H1.
I'm looking for second from Commissioner Bays.
Is there any public comment on our transit H1 presentation that we saw earlier?
Seeing none, is there any further board comment on H1? All in favor say aye? Aye.
Opposed say nay. H1 passes for zero. We are now at H5, H6.
H6 presentation. Hey Bob, are you doing?
So we have Walt Eastman, Bob Espicito, and Mary. No, no Mary?
Just one.
We're going to continue the theme of traffic and transportation and impacts.
The first map you see on the screen is the map of the county.
As was discussed, we have several roads at the county that are designated as evacuation routes.
If you look on the map, you see the roadways indicated with a blue outline.
Those are the our evacuation routes in the county.
One very significant one is kind of a 491.
Also on this map is done.
Just a car code of the roadway showing roadways that are being impacted or over either at or over capacity.
But you also need to look at the line with. The thinner red line means that those roads are approaching capacity. Once a road gets a little thicker red, you're definitely at or over capacity.
And just to kind of use some background, the numbers with traffic.
This is traffic, not just within the county, or just local traffic.
This also includes traffic from any kind of tourism, which we love our tourists, but there
is an impact.
But we're also seeing impact from outside our area.
For example, to the right side of the page, you see I 75, that is the elephant in the room.
It fails repeatedly, almost daily, and when it happens, those travelers either seek alternate routes or their phones tell them alternate routes.
And most recently, you know, when the truck hit the bridge and 75 close, we actually felt those impacts here in Citrus County.
They found a way across, through Pasco County, across the 41, 44.
So those outside the manager impacting us as well.
With that, we started looking, not just at our county,
and just our neighbors to the south, which, you know,
our Nanda County's part of RMPO, we started to get a concern
about outside influences.
And I'll bring up this second map.
Okay, can I ask you the two red dots on 491. Yes. What is that? Those are traffic count stations.
Okay, it's impossible. I know it's very bad, but yes, those are traffic count stations.
Thank you. Yes.
And now bring up a second map.
Which I can zoom out here.
Okay, now this has the same roadway network.
But now you're also seeing hot spots of
a densification of population.
And you can see the areas within Citrus,
the kind of matches what makes sense.
You know, that's the center ridge, those areas are growing out.
But if you look toward neighbors to the North,
the actual county, to the east, you have a Cala and the villages.
Of course, to our South Pasco County Spring Hill areas.
Those are all generating traffic.
And you can see on the map, SR-200 is approaching capacity, 75 again, it's over-capacity
and fails, steroid-44 has times where it is over-capacity.
So this is also the ed that I recently just saw a video on Marion Town.
Barry County is about to invest almost $290 million in infrastructure. One of those projects
is an off ramp off a 75 to a roadway over 200, which is going to be the home for a buck
east. Yes, so all of this is going to again generate traffic. They're going to look for alternative
routes.
Well on the legend, it says total population, what are those numbers there? It didn't
We have a number.
It just gives density.
And what does it say under total population?
He says yellow and then the red.
Yeah.
It just says dense.
Let's see if I can zoom in a little bit more.
It's sparse and dense.
Sparse and dense.
Thank you.
So the timing of this was kind of ironic because recently Bob, Mr. Esposito, the MPO, they just recently
completed a study with a suncoast.
and looking at impacts to roadways here in a county.
And I don't want to steal Bob's thunder,
but one thing I do want to use notice
when we get into this presentation is the impact
counter road 491.
You'll see in a presentation that the piece
from Pine Bridge to 200 is going to go to at level F.
So we're definitely going to pay attention to that roadway.
Come with that. I'll turn it over to Bob.
I'm sure.
You want me to pause?
I have no. I've heard this. I need to take a.
All right.
Well, before you leave, Madam Chair, I'm Bob Esposito with our
Andres Citrus IPO, the Executive Director.
Thank you for.
MPR County Board for having me here today.
Thank you.
I can hear you, Bob.
It's a long running job.
You know where to find me.
It's a long running job that I asked to have a
speaker put in the rest room so we missed a moment.
There you go.
Right idea.
As Walt said earlier, the MPO did a court or study, did a phase two on the Turkey
O bypass study and basically the second part of the study and the county requested the review
of the Sancao's Parkway impacts to specific roadways and that's the left map on your
screen right there.
Since the study started construction of the Suncows Parkway north of North of counter
road 4 to 86 to U.S. 19 has been accelerated.
We really didn't anticipate the Suncows Parkway being accelerated so fast, but it's actually
going to be up to red-level north of Crystal River probably within the next six to seven
years.
It's going to move that fast.
So, really, that's going to be the natural bypass for the folks in Crystal River, the Sun Coast Parkway.
And as you can see on the right map, there, we're actually getting to the point that Florida Turnpike Enterprise is getting ready to start that project as we speak.
And they, on the last portion, but they actually moved, they were way ahead of schedule, which was great. Next slide, please.
Using the FDOT's regional model, 2040, 2045 forecast, there were three alternatives prepared.
As you can see, the scenario, a Sunco's Parkway Terminus at 486, b is the Terminus at 486 plus improvements
that U.S. 19, adding dual southbound to eastbound left-turn lanes
at Citrus Avenue, left-turn lane, right-turn lanes on each approach,
and at state road 44, westbound and northbound, right-turn lane, and dual southbound to eastbound left-turn lanes.
Recommended that we focus on Parkway A, Parkway at a county road 46,
and B, Parkway to U.S. 19, be the focus of today's presentation.
alternative be included improvements to the turkey oak and did not significantly change the
results of the analysis. Remainter that the purpose of this phase of the study was to identify
which roadways would be most impacted by the Sun Coast Parkway related traffic to which may
become deficient. The volumes presented are order of magnitude volumes and are not meant to be
For Sunco's Parkway, volume forecast, please consult with the Florida turn pipe enterprise and we can reach out to them, or maybe the board can reach out directly.
Next slide, please.
Today, again, we're going to focus on the corridors of the greatest concern.
The first is County Road 491, as Walt mentioned earlier, and that's been brought up earlier from Cardinal Street to Grover Cleveland.
I'll turn it a at 7800 trips and it's a level of service F.
Alternative C is 3,000 trips and it's a level of service E.
Some of the Sancao's Parkway trips are local and not inverted regional trips.
Those may have used US-19 or other roads.
Next slide, please.
The second is county road 491 from Le Canto Highway from Pine Ridge State Road 200.
Again, alternative A is 5,000 trips and it's a level service F and alternative C is a level service E.
The recommendations are to continue to seek funding for state road 44 in Turkey,
to drive for intersection improvements.
Secraditional court or funding and improvements for county road 491 and state road 200.
And the 2050 long range transportation plan coordinate with FDOT and forecast external
station volumes on US-19.
Update forecast population employment to address Sancos Parkway and update assessment of
the Sancos Parkway impacts.
Any questions or comments?
Mr. Bays.
I know that we have traffic counts on the Suncos Parkway, but I would specifically like to have an origin destination study that identifies
where those people are coming from and going to that are entering exiting so that we can tell by their license plates
where they're from. I think that's going to be highly important to us. And then the next thing is I would just say that
From a state and an MPO level, I would like to continue the focus on getting some help since the states identified
491 as a evacuation route. And we know that 19 is a high coastal flood area
and a likelihood of that being closed down in evacuation
that's probably not going to be an alternative, so for 91 is our evacuation route. I'd like to
work with the state closer on that to find more additional funding that's not directly on the
back of citrus county at 50% at 165 million. We can look into that absolutely.
Just so you all know
I did ask Commissioner Slayabon, Commissioner Canard, or on the MPO board, and I asked them
months ago, six, seven, eight months ago, to do additional counts on state road, 200,
and U.S. 41, mainly because we know those roads are failing, and if it comes back that we
can prove to the state that it's failing, maybe we can get some additional money for those
roads, so the counts should be wrapped up as of hopefully this week and we should have more data
hopefully at the next MPO board meeting.
I'm sure.
Mr. Bays.
The wall touched on a little bit earlier.
The governor fast tracked that interchange on 75 for the buccas, which is also the bypass that
Mary and County is planning around the World Equestrian Center and it's my understanding
is going to come out somewhere about top of the world in 200 and if 75 has an incident
on it, people are going to get on their phone and they're probably going to use that
get on 200 and find their way down 491, which is going to have additional impacts on us.
That's one issue. Second issue is they've got to do something to address that bridge on 200.
That is a disaster.
I would agree with that.
I actually talk regularly with my counterpart, Rob Bommas, from the Ocalamary and TPO,
and there are only six miles from the Citrus County line.
So those are why we're looking at trying to find additional funding for state road 200.
We know this whole area is problematic.
And we do know that as we had a meeting with Florida Turnpike Enterprise last month.
that they're going to start doing a more holistic, regional study for the area, and I believe
it was from almost Gainesville down there.
I was going to mention, as you've heard, some things we can control here in the county, it's
other doorstep, but a lot of what you're hearing is outside our region, even outside our
MPO.
So we have approached the state DOT to ask for them to participate in the regional traffic
model to help us better determine what impacts are coming our way, and what we can do as a
group, the state and county, what we can do to put itself in best position to grow and develop
responsibly and protect our capacity in our roadways.
Basically, on a regular basis, I'm begging District 7 first, much money as we can get.
They actually work kind enough to give us about 2.3 million additional dollars from working
with work program towards U.S. 41, so anywhere we can find money, as I say, roads don't
themselves. Right, I would just like to add one other thing. Yes, being. A few months back,
Commissioner Canard had brought up a stoplight at Gospel Island on 44 and recently the state
put funding into repaying from 44 out to 75 and so I thought, oh, this is the perfect time to ask
and at that time when Commissioner Canard or Commissioner Canard had asked, they wanted us to have about
$100,000 to add to that, and the state has come back now, and they're going to fully fund that white.
So I'm very pleased, and again, I've sent my email off thinking them, but I want to thank again, and thank you for pushing that along.
You're welcome.
I reached out to the folks at FDOT, and they were kind enough to agree to put a traffic signal in there, and they are not cheap.
So you're welcome.
Another thing, it's not your money, it's a good thing, right?
Also working with...
The FDOT traffic safety, I know they were wanting RRFBs, which are rectangular rapid flashing
beacons along with the Gucci State Trail over here in Invernison. There was some discussion
back and forth that I was able to get DOT to acquiesce and do the study and they're going to supply
the RRBs, but the Invernison's going to have to install them in maintain them, and that's typical.
Also, anything else?
Thank you.
I appreciate all the work that you put into this, your contacts.
As you know, chair the MPO, I've sit with you and work with you a lot and I've heard
a lot of this and we're heading in the right direction, we're moving forward.
But is there any other questions for Mr. Esposito?
We do have a presentation.
I have got to get to cut you off short, but if you have any questions, make it quick.
Thank you.
My pleasure.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Absolutely.
Okay.
We have to jump and I'm so sorry.
This one is a little longer than we thought.
But H2?
What number E2?
E2.
Make it quick.
Yes, we did.
E2.
We're jumping all over the place today is the new animal shelter.
We select the preferred new animal shelter conceptual design and I'm just going to go out there
and I'm going to say, board, I would like to make a motion to approve A2 and identifying
this funding sources is through debt issuance.
I'm making that motion. I will be looking for second. Thank you.
I have a motion made by Commissioner Slava, a second by Commissioner Davis. Is there any public comment on the animal shelter?
Please come forward on E2.
Fill out your green card.
Thank you for a very productive morning. What's your name?
I don't know, I am.
I have a lot more to say.
I am.
Again, I thank you, I'm very glad you came to this decision.
But I am here to send major kudos to commissioner base.
You know, we're talking about the animal shelter right?
Nanananananananananan!
I'm so sorry to throw it out there.
Oh, my god.
The new girls get all the attention.
She asked a very pointed question about breeding and ordinances in Citrus County.
So I don't get lost.
Our animal shelters and their employees and their charges, they deserve a safe updated
and comfortable environment.
I believe there are more animals than there are homes and I put a lot of blame on breeders
for profit or from ignites.
We need prevention, unwanted animals,
the throwaways, and the abused,
or why we need expanded shelters.
Thank you.
Thank you, Donna.
Thank you.
Hello.
Hi.
Wanda Moe, Citrus County Foundation for Animal Protection,
just wanted to say a major thank you to this group.
This has been so needed for so long
and you are the ones who are doing it
becoming part of a very important part of Citrus County history. What you vote on today
will last us for the next 50 years or so, and I was very encouraged that you see the need
for the larger shelter, the larger option. And I can't thank you enough for all your work,
and you're amazing, and I appreciate you. Thank you so much. Thank you, want to thank you for everything
you do.
Hello. Hello. My name is Alice Weer. I was unable to get to the workshop this morning.
However, I've got a couple of questions if you don't mind. I went to the website last night,
and all I could see was maybe four rectangles with different rooms in them. And I was wondering
The price tags, let's say the $6 million price tag. Does that include fixtures? Does it
include a washer or a dryer? Does it include a exam table? Does it include the things
that are cages? Does it include anything except the walls?
We will answer your questions.
Is that all the questions you have? When everybody's done, then we'll answer the questions.
Oh, are you for the shelter?
I'm sorry.
Are you for the shelter?
I am definitely for a shelter, but I am also definitely appalled
at the amount of money for what apparently we are getting.
And I find that that is
appalling.
So we say you can build a 2600 square foot house
with alumni and poor $400,000, $300,000.
Three bedrooms, two baths living room, dining room, kitchen, et cetera.
But it includes, it includes those things that includes a sink.
It includes covers.
It includes paint.
It includes insulation.
It includes all these things.
And I was wondering also, is this going to be, there was no, no.
description of the outside. Is this going to be a metal building with the metal roof?
If so, I'm not at all sure, but what type of insulation are you going to have?
Are they going to have in that metal thing that will prevent it from sounding like a war zone,
every time it rains hard? I have a metal roof on my barn. My barn is open,
but it's got a metal roof. I cannot imagine if it was enclosed with a metal roof and very little buffering shall we say.
Thank you.
Next speaker, please.
Hi, Diane Liptec again, her name is Connie.
I want to thank you for taking the time to actually very carefully review all the angles and aspects that are involved in an animal shelter.
I mean, these are the animals that are lost to society.
But the people who are taken care of them are also the people who have extended their
hearts and their souls to take care of the animals.
And it's a big endeavor.
They come in in all different conditions and what has happened at this particular place.
It has so long since outgrown its ability to function properly that the staff has become lost.
It's just very difficult to keep up with it.
So the fact that you're actually considering doing something that is going to provide the right size,
the right equipment, the right space, the right air conditioning, and clean facility, is a lot of all.
I just I can't thank you enough. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank
you. Is there any other? Okay. I want to close the public portion of this. I just
want to say this is not a metal building with a tin roof and this is also not a home.
I do appreciate what you're saying about the cost. We have raised 3 million Indonesians. I think
that's a tip of the iceberg. We have commercial property. I have a motion on the floor for the
A2, and I'm million dollar building, which is what we ask for from the architect and the engineering firm.
And I just, and I don't mean this in any disrespect, but this is a hospital that is being built.
And my home, yes, it is, you know, say it took 150, 200, I don't know what they go for now, but say it's 200 square foot.
This is 350 square foot. It's a commercial hospital building and my guests don't defecate and
urinate on my floor. And that's why you have piping, you have sanitary measures. You're cleaning
these floors two, three times a day. So that's why you have to have the proper drainage and
sewage system through these things. But as a sticker shock, yes it is, but I'm going to tell
this is important and it's never going to be cheaper to build this building than it is today.
We have put it off for 20 years. I have spent the last two years. I got a three-two vote from
the previous board. Commissioner Davis has been there with me from the beginning.
If we had built it two years ago, it would have been considerably less expensive.
But I am so glad I have a motion on the floor. We have taken public comment. Is there any additional
board comments? Mr. Finnegan. So part of your most of them in agreement with. I agree to
go with option two. I think those of you that missed the workshop this morning. I don't agree
with the numbers but I do agree with the building and just because the numbers are here,
a 9 million dollar building, it doesn't mean that's what will be bid on it. It can definitely come
much lower than that. We've got a great staff that's looking after this and they understand
what crisis should be and they're going to be watching out for that as will we all. The part
I'm not with you on is securing the loan because we gave that's farm all that extra time which
should be coming to a head and with the money that we have, you said this morning that you have
million dollars, donors ready to go. You add that with what we have. We have that's
farm. I just, I don't know that we're going to need a loan. I hope that we wouldn't
need a loan and then how much to secure if we do. So I would like to see the money
come in. Well, I said, we have to, we have to say where funding is coming from. It doesn't
matter if it's going to be a million or nine million. We don't know what it will be until
we get the step taken. So I said through debt issuance. So that could either be loans, bonds,
donations, sale of land, that's why I said debt issuance. Very clear because we don't know
until we get this out to bid and we see more donations that come in. But we have to do this step
in order to even go to the next step. We can talk about it for another two years, but
we have to identify the funding source. So, again, I agree with you. It could be much less,
but debt issuances where it would be the funding source.
Well, I think that was my point that I didn't want debt because if we sell this property,
everyone says we're going to sell this property. Everyone had faith in this person that we're selling this property.
don't we wait a couple months before we get debt issuance, before we, and Aaron, I don't know, or Steve, we just don't know how we're able to.
What Aaron, come forward, please?
How, how the timeline on that works, or debt issuance?
If this motion goes through, Aaron.
So we wouldn't necessarily go right now because we don't have the cost of that, we need to issue.
So that would come back to you.
It's something we'd give at the financial advisor on.
We'd look at the interest rates and depending on how much you need to borrow or if you want to look at possible other projects would be better to go with a loan or a bond.
So this doesn't mean that you're going out tomorrow and getting the debt.
It just means that these are the funding sources we're going to use.
And if you all want to wait another however many months on Bets Farm, I know we talked about earlier.
We're still only at like 30% design so they need to finish design first.
So yeah it would always come back to you but it's just we're looking at it as is it just going to be cash funding or is it going to be donations and
some type of dot issuance at some level regardless of what that is when the time comes.
And I would say that would work for me if we said moving ahead because we have a while to go.
With cash on hand and then in the event that we don't reach this estimated cost and it costs that much,
then we move to debt issuance.
Are you comfortable with that?
No, the motion on the floor is A2 and I've, you know, and, and, and, and did
if I ensources through debtster issuance, I didn't mean that no so hard, but, um,
no, that's what's on the floor and you can vote what you feel you, you know, on that
motion.
I understand.
Thank you.
Madam Chair.
Thank you, thank you.
Thank you, Aaron.
Just as a point of clarification, um, value engineering will happen after the
start coming in, right, which hopefully, as you've said, will hopefully reduce it.
And second up, this is this is the step necessary to get the train to leave the station.
It doesn't mean there's not another station where we get to vote again on whatever funding
ends up needing to be dealt with, okay, bads closes, all these other things.
So I remain helpful, though it will be able to do it without that, and that would certainly
I think all of our preference. Is that help at all?
I just feel like you further made my point. Yeah, but we have to choose this step in order to go to the next step. And that's why, you know, it's not a very hard, but it's two years I've been talking about this. We just have to move forward. We don't even know what we're going to be getting with the debt until we go to this next step. So I have a motion on the floor a second. I would like to call the question.
All in favors say I, I oppose say nay.
Okay, so that passes three, one.
We are moving forward people.
Thank you so much.
Very good.
And Madam Chair, I just want to point out that if I wasn't caught off and I had something
for that to say I'm may have went ahead with that, but I didn't need to get caught off.
I just sorry you felt you would cut off.
like I asked if there was more comments and you were quiet so no okay well very good I
didn't I don't I don't believe I've cut you off though I'm so sorry you feel that way I will be
cognizant of that okay so now we are going back to open to the public and if you can remember
the line you were in, believe the gentleman in the the garnet shirt was first here
and you
the only one I could remember that was first.
Okay folks I need you to to quiet down a little
bit so that we can hear the next speaker. Thank you sir. Yeah three minutes. Good afternoon.
I moved to Citrus County 47 years ago because it was a beautiful place. It still has a beautiful
place. When we talk, I'm sorry I need your name and we. Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Len Kelly.
And I live in
Citrus County on Bismarck on Brandon's Brandon Street. I've been in business here since 1980. I came in
76 since 1980. I've been a builder and a realtor. And I've had to live under all the federal regulations
against discrimination of race, creed, sexual orientation, just as we all, and I agree with
every bit of that that we should not discriminate against any of that.
The flip side of that coin is we shouldn't promote based upon sexual orientation.
I think we can all agree that LGBT that acronym refers to sexual orientation, not color,
not creed, not race, but sexual orientation.
Consequently, if we shouldn't discriminate against sexual orientation, we shouldn't promote
sexual orientation. We should promote against white Christian because there's a whole bunch
of black Christian in this county, not just white, and we should not promote based upon my
sexual orientation. Whatever that might be, I don't care what someone else is, and I don't care what
the beautiful county that we have here with all the changes we talked about 486 when I came
to 48, to citrus county 486 was a dirt road. I hung out with novel Bryant. But I don't want
this kind. I resent the fact that we are going to spend tax money collected from tourism to
promote tourism based upon someone's sexual orientation. I think it's long. I think it's more
wrong and I question whether it's legally right that we can promote and take tax dollars and spend
it on someone's sexual orientation to get them to come here. When you show a picture of this
beautiful area and someone in a kayak, I don't know what that person's sexual orientation is,
I can't tell whether that person is gay or heterosexual or lesbian or anything else. I'm promoting
the county and the beauty of the water and all that stuff. That's what we need to promote
our tourism about. Not spend our dollars on promoting someone's sexual orientation.
Thank you, sir. Thank you. I do want to say I'm going to give everybody their time to speak
obviously I would never take that away. But I think there's been something written email sent
out that we were voting on spending money on this DEI and this has not been something we voted
on and I don't see it on the agenda in the future so just so you know that we we have
not voted on spending any money to promote that it was pulled from the agenda so I still
want to hear what you say but it was pulled by me it was pulled and it's not yeah and the
person that actually wrote it I don't see them in the audience so it's just a it's almost
It's like, let's divide us a little bit more and go and, but, but I still want to hear
everybody's, thank you sir.
Hi.
My name is Margaret Fraud.
I live in Green Breyer, a Citrus Hills.
And I am here to ask for you to use your authority to help us.
We have a problem in Green Breyer with a tremendous amount of landlords buying our houses
and turning them into rental units, and there is no law against it.
I'm asking you to use your power, your authority,
MetroCrest, which is next to us, has rules against how many limited rentals are allowed.
And when you buy a home there, you're only allowed to have a certain amount of rental properties.
We do not have that.
And so in Greenborough, one in Greenborough, two, we are in undunnendate with landlords.
We have four of the more board of directors buying up houses as fast as they can, and there's no law against it.
However, as your authority could appeal to developers or perhaps make it a rule that when they do our condos in the declarations that they write that they could write a limitation on the amount of rentals are allowed.
I think you were able to do that because some younger, more intelligent developers are putting it in and some of the developers are not putting it in.
And if we had a rule that said that our
in Citrus County, you can, you can,
you cannot have too many rentals.
Then we can keep the landlords out.
Do you think you can do that?
When you're done, we will answer all your questions.
As soon as everybody's done, we'll answer.
I'm finished.
Thank you, Margaret.
Thank you.
Next speaker, please.
Ma'am, could you turn in your green card?
Ma'am.
Thank you, sir.
Good afternoon.
Lealing ship, floral city.
And I'm glad I got the sit here and listen today.
Because the men that gave the last presentation, the Walton Bob Show,
I think that they are definitely waving a huge yellow flag for us.
I just, I change what I'm going to say.
I just want to ask a question, what is the board solution of getting the road's resurfaced
and bigs because I think we're going to have a serious opportunity.
And so I'm not even going to go any further, if that were to say I would probably not
stand up to the number one priority spot because I just see it as a disaster.
I think that we need to take the attitude of come heck or high water we're going to fix
those rows before we get inundated with all this traffic.
And that's not the mention.
When you start building shopping centers,
and I can speak to that, I've been around that.
The amount of heavy trucks and things
that are going to be coming, not to include
in the influx of workers, you're going to be
putting a lot of strain on these roads.
And I'd really think that we need to put this fix
in the roads, maybe the bed, before it's old enough,
to collect social security.
Thank you.
Thank you, Lee then.
Next speaker.
I'm last love joy from Beverly Hills, and I simply want to say I'm just glad it
proposal for the spending on the advertisement, it was pulled, because I find that that's
to me, unconstitutional, we worked very hard in this country for everybody to be treated equally,
which means also people coming to our county.
We have too many things to promote in this county.
We rivers and just the active it's a wonderful county. I love this county. I've been here now 10 years. I came from D.C.
It's a cesspool. I love this county. I really do. I'm just glad to hear the fact that there's been pulled that we're going to advertise
their proposed everybody because we are a very loving community. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And you have a very good name for being a loving community. Thank you, sir.
next speaker please hi I'm Dr. Carmen Clubechek and Vanessa Village for I
would like to say hello to all the commissioners Madam Chair. The reason I'm
here is to ask I know Commissioner Davis will be speaking later on but we
We're supposed to have a workshop, and that never came about.
I see Mr. Walt Eastman here, I see Mary Jensen here, Mr. Howard, and then Lynn.
And I'm requesting that this be done because there's a lot of misconception, misinformation,
being distributed among the residents, and this all needs to be clear up so that we're
all on the same page.
I really think this is very important.
One of the other residents, I think, in one of the previous meetings, I wanted for signs
for speeding to be put up at least to slow down.
My next door neighbor had a call to share up because one of the workers was speeding down on
Chris Wood and we have children that play out industry and this is a disaster waiting to happen.
They're very inconsiderate, there's always dust going everywhere, you know, I have to vacuum
my house at least twice a day, I'm sure all the other residents as well.
So something really needs to be done, I know you're trying, I really appreciate that the
board is trying, I just wish I had more results, you know, than I can go back and tell
residents, but I do appreciate it. Thank you all. Thank you, Dr.
Next speaker please.
Good morning, ladies. I'm Brad Benson from
County below you, Hernando County. Back to talk about the Baker Act
Boone Doble and I just want to say it was at our our board meeting
this morning and asked about it and they say it's now all they're all
for you to do something, and I sense, and then I asked the deputy to Mr. Rogers, our
county administrator. If she's one charge in the project, and he looked over at her
and saw who was asked her, and pulled her, you know, he is. So, seems to me, like something
going on under the table again, I don't, I have more trust in you than I do in our own
people. That's why I came here today. Wish you wouldn't make us wait so long.
Public comment, I think, could be taken care of real quick, because I've got yet another
meeting to speak at tonight. Last but not least, on the idea of the transgender tourism,
I would just say for anybody that would entertain that idea to take a look at what
happen to bud light and what is about to happen to Fox News for fire and Tucker Carlson.
When you do something that stupid, you get what you deserve.
If you want to have no tourism, then I would say go ahead and do it.
But if you want tourism here, that ain't the way.
Because the people down here don't buy into that nonsense.
Now on the Baker Act thing, I try to get a risk of it.
Please it's hard to hear him when there's cross-talk and then public things are funny guy. Oh, is that right?
Finally, I just like say find it interesting
That Miss Fenigin is willing to spend all kinds of money on the Baker Act facility and 40 new beds and so we are hugging all the doctors that
Push in this thing, but can't can't quite support an animal shelter
Now, I know people are more important than animals, but we're not really taking care of these
people that are Baker acted.
We're drugged them and taken them off the streets.
It's a bad idea all the way around.
The Baker acted.
Self is a bad idea.
A new facility isn't even worse one.
And thank you very much for your time.
I appreciate you all letting somebody from Hernando come up here where we have a-
We have been such a county for 32 years now in its current state. We have also done work here for the county and numerous
capacity is over the last 32 years. I have to give you a back story first because it
involved the previous board. The previous board was faced with giving us an extension
on road resurfacing project back in November of 2022. At that time, there was material supply chain
issues that we were dealing with that happened throughout the state throughout the country.
And we had difficulty our supplier here in Lakanto, making asphalt a difficult to get in the aggregate.
There were times that we would go a day, a week, two weeks that he just didn't have any aggregate to make them material.
So we would be shut down. We'd find out that morning he has nothing.
So we asked for extensions of time. We were granted an extension of time at the November 8th Board meeting.
Unbeknownst to us, also on that slate, was to ban us as a contractor to bid on or be awarded any more work for Citrus County until the words are until all outstanding projects are complete.
So we had that project that we had finished up the work that we could do on as well as Turner Camp Road.
And there's an upcoming agenda item today that will close out Turner Camp Road.
We finished the actual work on that at the beginning of March.
Our impression was that when the work was completed, that we could get back on to
been work, come to find out that no all the paperwork needs to go through, that including
today's agenda item, so it's pushed us back and we're missing bid opportunities.
We had bid a job in September prior to being banned on November 8th that wasn't awarded
until late November, well it was awarded to the second low bidder because we were then
banned.
So we missed out on the parking lot project at the Imranus Airport.
We also bid on a Cardinal Drive sewer project which we were low bidder and that is on your
agenda today and we were $229,000 roughly lower than the person to kind of
contractor that you're consider and recommend in the award too.
We are done with all our current work with Citrus County.
We've missed out on other opportunities through the utility departments, mother road maintenance
departments, to do work because we've been banned.
We don't know anyone, nobody's talking to us from the county side.
All of our communications have been us reaching out to county people to find out what's going
on and we're just getting nowhere and we don't know what it's going to take other than
keep moving to Gold Pass, post back, and getting drug out.
Thank you, sir.
Thank you.
Next speaker, please.
Good afternoon, commissioners.
Ken Hinkle, 102, 7, North Short Line Way,
Emeritus, several things.
Y'all are doing a excellent job.
I know you get a lot of critique from everybody,
but it's part of the job.
I love the forward thinking that Ruthie is explaining
and all of you are doing forward thinking.
five million dollars for renovations every year seems a little bit excessive to me and
putting everything under one umbrella would be the best thing in a course like I
like Rebecca's idea of putting it in for NASA.
Since I was in the city council from 18 years we want to do that to me, taking the
whole overnight shopping center and putting a complete project right there would be
And I'm a way that animal shelter, if people don't understand, go out to the current shelter,
and you see why we need it, it's disgusting.
Really, I'm here because I live in Cambridge, grains.
You'll be voting on the bid award for the, I think it's around $10 million.
It's a bargain,
but many, almost everybody out there is retired.
and there are fixed incomes and we brought about this before.
I'm, everyone else just got a $10 million grant on top of a $16 million grant.
And I went to the same manager and I said, OK, how did you get another $10 million?
He says, will you re-applied to FDEP and this is so many people turn on the money back
in because they don't have the money to do the project.
He went on the 50, 50, whatever the match is.
So, I was a guest, Mr. Cheek, I could still have an excellent job, see about if they can
reapply for more grant money for the 22 or 23 or 23 or 24, because this project is not
going to be really going to finish until 25.
Thank you.
Thank you, Ken.
Next speaker, please?
How about people?
I'm Frank Papson from Arrowhead, and my funder has been shot out from under me, so I'll go on two
other things that I listened to here, one, I hope you had success in Tallahassee getting the
money that you were looking for. That's number one. Number two is the consolidation of City Hall,
when you keep saying cotton solidation, I keep thinking of Washington DC and all the traffic
that is generated. I also think about the fact that you're going to building that's going to have
additional employees that have to park somewhere and then you're going to have additional
people public coming to this building and that they're going to need the park and they really
don't need to walk blocks and blocks to get there. So you're going to have to do something about
the parking. That's one. The other one that I'm thinking about was the project on 486491,
I hope you turn around and make the builders put in traffic lights where they're going to need it because you're going to have a lot of people going in and out of there.
And the turn lanes, I want you to make sure that they pay for that too, because that's an expense that the builders should be paying for.
And that's all I have to say. Thank you.
Thank you.
Any other speakers?
I'm going to close open to the public.
Board, is there anything you would like to address?
Madam Chair.
Commissioner Bays.
So, pay for it.
I've heard a little bit about that.
I really don't know exactly all the details.
There's always two sides to every story.
I will tell you this is the second instance that I've heard this with two local companies.
And I'm very concerned, I don't know what the deal is, why the prior board pre-empted local
businesses from doing business here.
But when it comes down to awarding bids between a business that has brick and mortar employees
that's within our county, and we can't get it resolved, I think that's a tragedy.
No, whoever it was, that was the board.
So I'm asking for staff
to really dig into this, really look at it, figure out what's going
on.
I mean, I've heard some bits and pieces back and forth, I heard it from another company that
we have in the county that they weren't able to do work here, and I know that when I worked
them previously, they were an excellent partner. It was a printing company. So, and this on
roads, I would like to see this resolved. I just, it concerns me that we're shutting out local
businesses from being able to do work here. So, maybe there's a good reason for it, but I would
like to have answers. I would like the minutes pulled from that when that was decided because I
I remember recall that I was not an agreement of stopping a local person from doing work,
but the administrator was saying they were overwhelmed with work and work getting work done.
So I would like to see those minutes.
Is that it?
Sorry.
Is that it?
That's the only one.
Commissioner Finningin?
Well, since you started with paper, I also asked the question, actually,
my briefing and I went, I went, I don't know.
We're barred.
And they did have a reason, but it's my understanding that you are caught up and my response
was like to save over a quarter of a million dollars and also with a local company.
So I would be an agreement if we can somehow work that out.
They did give me a reason.
I don't know that it's my place to bring all that up now, but I would say if you don't have the
every one needs to start talking. That would be my hope. I think a lot of these people are gone.
From Ms. Fraught in Green Breyer. I don't know if we could, I mean, we can't give that,
but I would have to get with our attorney to know what we are allowed to do as a county.
I'm not very familiar with Green Breyer, obviously it's not an HOA, so it must just be in the county.
I've been in places that apartments have HOAs and yes, they have rental stipulations, like once every quarter you could rent.
I feel that's the way you're going.
I just don't know, we'll have to pump that off and maybe try to get something back to you later.
I've talked to several lawyers, the first thing I said.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know you're not allowed to come back, but you could email me if you'd like.
And I think just, you know, thanks to Mr. Ginkl and Pat Mr. Papson and all of those that had something to offer in the forward thinking and, you know, there's a lot of fiction like it's said too.
So I just want to before everything goes sideways in comments just because I voted
nay on one vote does not mean I'm not for the animal shelter.
I think I've made it very clear that as with all board members we're all on board for the
larger size animal shelter and I'm happy that it's moving forward and I think we'll get
to the accomplished. I just had a question about incurring debt, and I think in the future
this Board will work well together to hopefully not incur debt, but that's just a way
that the Board wants to move forward right now and we're all good with that. So, thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Davis.
Yes, ma'am. Thank you.
Um, pay, right, my understanding or my memory, I would like to review those minutes as well.
My memory is pretty much exactly as yours.
You're overwhelmed with work until you get caught up, you can't.
You, but clearly you're caught up, and I would share the, uh, the dismay, the outrage that
we would not allow a local company.
By the way, my father always really thought you guys did a great job at Christopher
rare board and especially to save taxpayer money so hopefully stop and figure out a way to
work that out. Mr. Ship, Mr. Papsen, I'm going to throw in roads, turn lanes and all that
in together at our board retreat where discuss looking at concurrency which is what means
that the developers have to pay for what they're doing right in their area.
Impact fees, we're going to look at that.
We're looking at alternate funding sources for getting the roads paved.
So we are working on all that, Mr. Ship.
I know you wanted to be the first priority, but we have about 10 first priorities.
So bear with us as we chew through that.
Speaking of all of the heavy lift on our plate,
I think we've already put the DEI thing to rest that I just want to say something and you
said it best, Chair, so I'll try not to screw up with additional comments.
I read in Wall Street Journal that today, I think, that China just got busted for manipulating
social media to cause dissension within the American public.
We already know, we already know that Russia has been doing that.
Okay?
We are so focused on being angry at each other and make no mistake.
We have bad actors within us as well.
I work in media.
I hear a lot.
Follow the money.
Sure.
I know some politicians are crooked.
They've got to be out there.
We're, I can always speak for myself.
But I would bet that none of us are.
But follow the money. Your eyes, your attention, are worth a fortune, a fortune to companies, media companies.
I remember being raised with three channels and you had to get up to go turn the channel.
Okay, think now you have uncountable channels. You've got YouTube and you've got 24-7 to fill.
So, the more they can enrage you and make you turn around and go, that commissioner gave us
she's insane and then just start telling all your friends.
And then it goes around and around and around. And it's just really sad. Just reach out to me. I am an open door and an open book.
If you think I've done something phone headed, then please send me an email and say, what do you think? And I need to know, you know, or get in touch from me through our assistant.
And I think all five of us would ask you to do the same thing. And I'll always tell you the truth.
I, before Dr. Obviously, that'll come up in a little bit. So I have some ideas.
I think I got everything.
Thank you. Now, the very first speaker, a woman that talked about her son and mental health.
And I mean, that was very touching. It was a long time ago that was said.
But I am very, very aware of people losing children
and the loss of a child doesn't matter how old you are.
It doesn't matter if you child's 60 years old.
But we, as a board, know that this is an issue with our mental health.
People don't choose to be drug addicts.
People don't choose to have mental health problems.
but this board, the sheriff, our health department,
we're all trying to figure that out.
And I do appreciate the gentleman, Mr. Benson,
from Hernandez saying that Hernandez waiting on us
to figure out what we're going to do.
They don't need to wait on us to figure out.
I don't really understand what they're waiting on.
We're trying to figure out where the facility would go. Who's going to pay for it and how much is going to you know be it and what area it's going to be so
I don't know what to say about her name awaiting on us, but um
Pave right. We're we're going to look into it. I would like to see what's it going to take to get them back on Citrus County's
Job sites. They're a local company and appreciate what you bring to our county what you've done for our county. Also subcontractor
So I'm very aware of bidding for a job and being a little bit or so thank you for that.
Mr. Papsen, you were very nice today.
Thank you.
It felt like Christmas.
Traffic, yeah, I don't believe me.
46 and 41, you know it's my district.
The traffic lights are there.
The turn lanes are the developer.
There's one at 4.91 and 46 and there's one in right there at Walmart.
Train turn lanes are there, developers take a care of that.
So we have a great growth department and they're right on there dealing with them, making
sure that takes the burden off of that road, but believe me, there's going to be a lot.
There's a lot more coming to that area and we got to get ahead of it.
Cambridge Greens now. Mr. Howard could I ask Mr. Cheek question?
Absolutely come forward Mr. Cheek. Maybe he'll get to see the whole grant money.
Yeah, he's able to get. He's got to see so wealthy.
He's got to bring one of those Brink's trucks he keeps.
I'm going to ask you a hypothetical question.
We, this Cambridge Bridge, Cambridge Green Bid, is a very, very good bid.
That's why we want to move forward on it.
But say we move forward on this and we get going.
Is there anything stopping us because it is going
to take several years of getting more grant money
towards that project?
Not as far as I know.
Not as far as you know, so there is a possibility.
Well, typically they like to see the projects.
They like to fund it before it starts.
But in this case with the fact that we have a grant in place,
we could probably amend it if we can get some additional funding.
Either, throughout the state of preparation or spring's money, we have both of those.
Okay, so there is hope.
Yes, ma'am.
Okay, okay.
One thing we can guarantee is the number that we originally quoted.
It will never go beyond the $6,000 if we never got any more money with this big.
And that's what the hookups and the plumber and the...
We have $4,000 to apply to that over and above what we got in this.
So it will, there will be 6,000 for the homeowner that can have no, no more than 6,000, and if we could get it lower across the county than either saving money during construction or getting more grand money.
Yes.
Thank you, sir.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
I'm all for that, getting it every area.
Homassassa, Cambridge Greens, all of the areas, try to get as much as we can from feds.
from the staff perspective we are to yes I know I know yeah 26 million this year already, so very good
I think it would cover the D.I
The workshop for infinite villages so we'll be coming up the green briar mark it
That you would need that isn't that's that's out of our purview what you're asking
You need H.O.A. or P.O.A. the county commission is not
has no jurisdiction over that.
I also don't know if in my neighborhood, for instance, if somebody buys a house and they want
to rent it, I don't believe there's anything in my neighborhood to stop that.
But I wanted to ask you that question.
What you thought about Green Breyer?
I can't remember whether she mentioned Maddox.
I think she said Maddox has some restrictions.
So, Meadow Crest did, some of the villages within Meadow Crest did amend their deed restrictions to prohibit short-term rentals.
I remember because I was part of that before I came to work with the county.
So, green bars, condominium, condominium, one-and-two, so there's condominium documents.
And I think the frustration that she's having is that the board has folks on it who have rental properties.
So there doesn't seem to be an impetus to change the
deed or the condo docs to prohibit the rentals.
I think that's the frustration, but it wouldn't have
be anything that the county could get involved in.
It needs to be done with the condo docs.
So the condo board needs to amend the condominium documents.
What's the future?
Yes.
OK.
So, talk to your board, tell them what you want.
That is out of our jurisdiction.
I'm sorry.
I wish I could give you better news, but this is out of our jurisdiction.
Okay.
So,
I think that's it.
Now, we can go on any other further discussion.
We can move on to E regular business.
So board, would you like to prove the bids in its entirety or prove individually?
It's entirely.
Would you like to make a motion?
She won, right?
It's 21A through.
I'm looking for a motion.
Do you want to do entirety or prove individual?
Madam chair, I would make a motion to approve Bids E1A through E1G.
Very good.
I have a motion by Commissioner Bays.
Second, second by Commissioner Davis, is there any public comment on E1A through G?
Give us your name and where you live?
I'm Joe Azarelli and I'm living sugar mill.
I worked for Pave Wright and I would like to see you table E1A until you can review this
further so that you can save the $220,000, I'm sure calf carts are a wonderful company
but they were not a little bitter.
I would like to give you a little bit of background with regard to the decision to ban
pay, right?
There was a meeting in August of 2022 where the staff originally recommended that pay, right,
be banned from bidding any future paving work until the one project of concern was done.
And because of the supply chain issues that we were experiencing, they decided not to ban them,
when this came back up in November,
without any reason that I know of, the ban was for
for all of county work, not just paving work, and for until all county work was complete.
The Underground Division of Pavewright, which I am responsible for,
wasn't having any issues
like the paving was, I'm not to say we didn't have any issues, but we were not late or
delayed in the same respect.
I don't believe that we should have been banned from bidding on the cardinal project and I think
it should be awarded to pay right.
In another comment that I would like to add to Commissioner Baze is I just find banning
strange.
All of these projects had performance and payment bonds.
The county was under no risk that the work would ever get done, it was going to be done.
And addition by banning us, you've removed the bidding
cool, and therefore, subject yourself, possibly paying more
than you needed to on future work.
So anyway, I'd like to see you table that and reconsider
and then reconsider and keep reconsidering until you can give
it to pay right.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
Any other
public comment?
Mike Delgado, I live in Sugar Millwoods, such as County, the President of
Pave Wright, and I appreciate you considering us back on the bidder's list, but we
I think we were banned illegally basically, I mean, there was no sit-down meeting with us
to show us why we were banned, there should be a meeting, a way the protocol calls for in
bid documents and to save $225,000 on this bid, I think it's good for the county.
Good for the citizens.
Everybody needs money and keep it as tight as possible.
But like I say, we should get the Cardinal bid.
We were low bidder.
And that's what this county is about.
Local businesses working together.
We worked for this county for 33 years.
Who called us when citrus hills had a 24 inch water mainly they called us. We got it done
You know we work with the utility department
So I just think you need to consider us on that bid get us back on the bidders list. That's what this county needs
Thank you, sir
Any further comment in the public? Madam chair. Yes, ma'am
I'd like to amend my motion. I'd like to withdraw E1 A
and ask staff to go back and review this to see what the circumstances are.
A couple of things.
I know that there is a machine out there now that's used by some companies.
I don't know that you use it, but it's pulled by one truck.
It has a hopper on it.
The asphalt's drawn up.
It goes into it, it's programmed by a computer that you put the new product in to mix it up.
And then it puts it into a dump truck, you put it back on the ground and rolls it out, and it's done pretty quick.
I know that there's a company here in this county that leases those.
Part of the issue is that that's not part of the specs of the way we're bidding these jobs.
But I think it's a better way to do it.
It might cost us a little more money up front, even with, as opposed to using aggregate
base, that we can actually use more of a concrete base, which will prevent the deterioration
of some of these roads in particular intersections.
But I would like to see some of that put into our bidding processes, and if we're going
to have penalties that I would like to see some performance measurements built into our contracts.
It says if you're delayed, it's going to cost you x, y, or z. You've got to have some mechanism
in there so that we're not just preempt in these companies. There's not a lot of them out there
and particularly in our county that we're getting the benefit from, but I would like to pull
that off and then my motion. So what would your motion be to approve E1, B,
through E1G?
I'm in my second, too. I think, man.
Can we do this business and then you can talk
about the hopper and all that at your, during your, yeah, comments, okay, did you have something
about this motion? I did, and it's very, very, very short. You say that every time, but go ahead.
I was, if you noticed, I was quickly scanning that, trying to make sure I wasn't about to
second what y'all were interested in. I missed it, so that's why, and I have a feeling that that's
what happened with Commissioner Bays as well. So thank you for getting up and setting us straight.
Okay, so we have a motion of floor for E1B.
E through G, amendment short. We had an motion E 1 B through G by Commissioner B, second by Commissioner Davis. Is there any public comment? Again, do I have to reopen it? Yes. Madam, I don't think you have to reopen it, but I before you get ready to vote. I think I might have some input on this issue for you. Go ahead. Oh. So while I understand you may be sympathetic to the discussion that you've heard today,
That's only one party.
You have someone who's been told that they were the apparent low bitter, so if you're not voting
for them, there may be some repercussions for that, because the board took action and directed
staff not to allow pay right to bid.
So until the board undoes that, staff has been working consistent with the board's direction,
And so, for this bid, which has already gone on the street, it's already been collected.
The apparent low bidder has been notified that they are the low bidder.
I just want to make sure you understand that you may be having some repercussions from
that entity, because you're now changing what staff has done at your direction.
Hi, Chair, yes, ma'am.
How could they have been the low bidder?
Have they bid on it if they were exempt from bidding?
And how would the other company even know them?
I don't know the specifics of how it went down, so to speak.
I don't know whether they, I think they were precluded from bidding.
So I don't think that their bid was perhaps Aaron can let lend some light on this, but
I believe that their bid, if it was opened, it was set to the side.
So it was not included, but maybe Aaron knows better than I do.
okay we and hold on hold on we are going to finish this motion on the floor for
E 1 B 3 G and then we will talk about what we're going to do with E 1 A so that
being said is there any other board comment not for B 3 J all the more reason the
Okay, so that means that all in favor of E1, B through G, the bid's approving that, say I, I oppose say nay, thank you. Now, E1A,
Cardinal Street Force Main Project, this one, I'd like to make a motion to table it, I am going to listen to staff.
I'm not saying I'm going to make any promises to anyone, I want to hear both sides of this story, and then we can make a decision,
put it back on the agenda in two weeks.
I don't know how time sensitive this project is. It's not a paving project. It looks like a water mean project.
So I don't know how to change.
The horse might already be out of the barn.
I don't know, and I will tell you, I've been in communication with their lawyer.
There are the, I have been writing letters back and forth with their lawyers, so to find
there.
Uh, pay rights attorney, so I didn't know that they intended to go outside of those letters
that I've been writing with their lawyer.
This is a sewer force name project, it's a CIP project that is self-funded, so there's
So other outside influence that is creating the time frame for this but us.
Okay.
So we could table it, get both sides of the story, find out what happened.
Is that what you're saying?
We're just in this year's CIP and it's utility funds.
Okay.
Well, I think we need it.
What is your suggestion?
Madam maternity.
On E1A.
My suggestion is that the Board's direction to staff was to not allow pay-bright to bid until pay-bright completed all of its outstanding projects at the time.
Staff, we put together a letter, we've gotten very extremely negative letters from their attorney.
threatening the county staff put together a course for pay right to complete.
I think there was two projects, maybe with three sub paragraphs that they had to complete.
I believe that they have completed all but one project and there is a disagreement between
the county and pay right as to the payment, they're requesting additional funds.
The county is doing alternative dispute resolution with them at their request to resolve
that one last issue. That one last issue per the contract would be determined at the county's
discretion. So I understand staff is meeting to determine how they're going to proceed forward
with the alternative dispute resolution.
So I can say that we are working toward resolving that one last item and we've told
I've told their lawyer that as soon as that one last item is resolved that we would bring
it and the staff would bring it back to the board and request the board please to release
them to further bidding.
That's everything in a nutshell.
Thank you, Mr. Chief.
Board, what is your pleasure with E1A?
I'm going to take my motion back. Madam Chair, I'll make the motion. I still want to table this. I want to hear what's going on.
We've had a company that's come forward. We set up here. They expect us to have the to vet this. I understand what's going on, but I, this is the second time that I've heard this with companies.
and I want to know what's going on. I want to hear it. I want it to be vetted in public. It's been
brought public today, and I think we owe it to the citizens and to the companies to get the answers.
All second thought. I have a motion to table and get the background on E1A,
a motion by Commissioner Bay, the second by Commissioner Davis, and Madame Chairman.
And that'll be including putting their attorney's letters in the backup material so you all can see those.
That's fine.
Okay.
Okay, so I've already opened this up to public comment.
All in favor.
More discussion.
Okay.
Thank you.
See, it's not on purpose.
It's ready for the board discussion.
Mr. Finnegan.
Um, only because Mr. Cheek, it seems like I'm hearing it's not going to, you know, harm the project or the taxpayers to delay it two weeks.
I think that we can bet this out in two weeks, but what I'm also hearing loud and clear to everyone from Pave, right? It sounds so far like it's your attorney that has kept you from being eligible to bid on this project.
So, well, then we'll have two weeks to get it all fed it out,
Madam Attorney.
We'll just remember it might not be two weeks because of the way the agendas preparation
it might be.
I just want to make sure we're right.
As far as possible.
I said yes.
Sorry about that, Madam Attorney.
I'm not going to put you in there.
That was me.
I put that out there.
As soon as possible.
But I am worried.
I don't know how that works, but if someone was notified and ready to get started.
And then, you know, we're a month out, I don't know, I'm gonna trust our attorney on that
because I feel like at this point, I don't mind getting the information, but I don't
want to put the county in sticky and the sticky situation at the same time.
Any other comments?
You know what I'm saying?
You don't be on the edge.
I can get a bit of system.
Like, are you done?
Can we go up lights?
Not yet.
Anything else, Commissioner Bays?
Nope.
Davis. Okay, so all in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Opposed.
Say nay. That passes 40. Moving on.
We did E 2 or at E 3.
Budget transfers.
Board. Madam chair.
Yeah, a motion approved item E 3. Thank you.
Commissioner Bay. Second by Commissioner Davis.
Is there any public comment on budget transfers?
Thank you, gentlemen.
See, none is there any further board comment on budget transfers.
All in favor say aye, aye, opposed say nay, passes 40, e4, budget resolutions.
Madam Chair, Commissioner, approve e4.
On a motion by Commissioner Davis, looking for a second to approve e4.
Second.
I'm going to second from Commissioner Finnigan, is there any public comment on E4?
Seeing none, is there any further board comment?
All in favor say aye.
Aye.
Opposed?
Say nay.
Passes 4-0, E5.
Waste disposable account agreement for intercounty recycling.
Motion to approve E5-A and B.
Thank you.
motion by Commissioner Davis for E5A and B. I'm looking for a second. Second by Commissioner Finn again.
Is there any public comment? Seeing none. Is there any further board comment? All in favor say aye.
Aye. Opposed, say nay, passes 4-0. E-E-6. Release on Retainage,
ITB-22-085. I'm looking for a motion. This was a Scott resurfacing project.
Motion to approve E-6 A-B-N-C.
Thank you. Motion by Commissioner Davis. Second.
Second by Commissioner Finnigan. I'm hoping you saw this. You were the only one there.
Any public comment on E6, A, B, and C? Any further board comment? All in favor say aye.
Opposed, say nay. We're at 3, 0 right now until Commissioner B gets back. E7.
Make a motion to approve. E7, vote A and B.
Thank you. Motion by Commissioner Finnegan for E7AMB. Second by Commissioner Davis. Is there any public comment on fire service assessment program proposal?
Seeing none. Any further board comment? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay.
We're at 30 right now. E8. Waste disposal account agreement with right tree services.
A and B. Motion to approve. E 8 A and B. Thank you. I got a motion by Commissioner Davis.
I'm looking for a second. Second.
Commissioner Finnigan. Is there any public comment on E 8? Is there any further board discussion?
All in favor say aye. Aye. Post say nay. Passes 30 right now. E 9.
I'm sorry, go ahead.
PDC request for local lines television partnership.
Motion to approve E9.
Okay, I got a motion by Commissioner Davis.
I'm looking for a second.
Well, I'm sorry what?
You can still vote against.
We need to have questions.
You need to second that so I can tell you what it's about.
I'll give you a second for discussion.
is there any public comment about E9?
Any board discussion?
Can you tell me what your concerns are, so I can address them?
Sure. So, as pointed out before, there was a budget for marketing. 527,000 dollars that was allocated.
I haven't heard that no tourists are coming to citrus counties, so there's like a full court
grass, on more advertising dollars, and it seems like that's what's been heading, heading
down the way, so that's one, two, just the amount of money, you know, for boat, boat, you
know.
It's basically to put a little logo on a boat as to how I understand I'm sure you'll
it's way better and not familiar with any of this. It sounds like a really good deal for Mad
Media and One O'Captain. But probably mostly is that T.C. has been getting so much hot
press. And my understanding of the board's pleasure was to use that special project money
and start pushing it to the other side of the county.
So we're back instead of marketing being under the marketing budget,
we're taking it from special projects,
and after the last vote,
it seems like we need to move or save some of the special project money
for the other side of the county,
and we're back in the crossover area.
So that's, so.
I've actually had a discussion on the Mr. Pritcher about this because it took me even as someone in marketing for decades
It took me a while to figure out our funding is five pennies right on
Item 5 pennies. So, the first four are spent on marketing the county by state preemption. One
cent can go to capital. At some point, they deemed the fourth penny for special projects. It is
advertising. So, when you build an advertising budget,
and I'm going to maybe get in trouble
for saying this and the non-government corporate world
when we are building client budgets,
we call it a slush fund.
Because we want to be able to take advantage
of new projects that come up that are in that
advertising arena and be able to do that.
So a client may give us a half million dollar budget
for advertising to manage, it's not coming to the agency.
And we may put aside 120 of that 500
to wait for special things to come up and that's where the derivation of the name is, special
projects, but it's incredibly misleading and it even took me a while to figure out I'm like
okay, so the special projects thing is actually the same advertising that we're doing on the other
three pennies and John said yes, so this is advertising it's just something that is not our
regular baseline, typically in an in a marketing budget you're looking at a baseline that you go
to go back to that same thing because it works year after year after year. If you keep working
well with it like we have with TDC and we keep getting more tourists and so the money we get keeps
coming in and just for clarification guys this is a state preemption. We cannot spend that tax money
which tourists pay not residents tourist pay it. We cannot spend it to repay the roads, build the
So what we do is a lot of times we'll take in a corporate budget, and I've seen us do this with TDC, is that we'll have a new project come in, a new advertising possibility option.
And we go, you know what, this sounds like a really good program.
We're going to try it for the 40,000 or the 20,000, or whatever the amount is, but make no mistake.
We get a ridiculous amount of data back from the agency on what happened with that media.
How many eyeballs?
I mean, the amount of tracking that's on us as humans right now is pretty scary.
I mean, it's pretty, is big brother is out there and they know where you're shopping and where
you're going.
If you dig into deeply into the reports, which is all public record, you will see that we actually
are mined in those dollars very, very carefully. Hopefully that clears that up. This is something
that is going to be centered mostly in saltwater fishing. I asked, and I was planning to get
my TDC report later, we do have some stuff planned for the east side, specifically Jackie
Hupner said that they're going to bring a capital project idea to us for that fifth penny from
So I am beating that job regularly, trust me, but this local line is going to be, and you can just not, John, I believe it's all salt water, but they were going to, maybe, do a little bit of fresh water.
John Pritchard with the first album.
No, it's what we wanted to be in terms of, yes, he primarily salt water, but the reason we brought this forward was that he was open and willing to put people into it.
along the lakes and invernance as well.
Also part of the package that he provided us was when we have media that come in, he will
take them out.
Previously, we've had to pay for these sort of things, so in a roundabout way, we're paying
for it.
However, he's going to put them on the lakes, so they experience what we're talking about.
These writers now go up and experience it.
So, it is county-wide. It's not strictly on the salt water fishing areas.
So, may I ask a question?
Does anyone have a question?
Or should I say anything?
Is that a hand?
Okay.
So, it's one boat captain.
Of course, where I live, there's a lot of boat captains.
I don't understand how one person, I mean, if we're relying on one person to do this work,
of taking, I guess, torus to places. I mean, it wasn't bit out. It wasn't, we just kind of,
what's it, it's an advertising opportunity. He brought us this proposal. He has a television
show and he wanted us as the TVC to be a part of the sponsor. As you can see in the packet,
there's the SOTM Fishing, the Plantation, several other gifts and plumbing power, I don't know
We would get a chance to be a sponsor.
So Discover Crystal River is mentioned at the beginning of every show,
where there's a commercial in every show.
It goes to over 13 million homes through the waypoint network,
which is the primary network where the fishing community is consuming content.
It's not on the, it's, so they can watch it on the man,
because instead of being there at 9 a.m. to watch the show,
They can watch it at their leisure, and we're in front of the folks that are interested
primarily in fishing, whether it's salt or fresh water.
How does one watch?
I've never heard of it before.
It's like Hulu.
So it's just a little app, way of policing.
But for outdoors and fishing primarily, it is the leading place where content is consumed.
So, as you can see in the back of it, it talks about reaching 13 million through the social
media web traffic and other appearances, and waypoint has over 10 million views through
their analytics.
So this, you know, as we are, as Commissioner Davis told him earlier about the tracking and
things, we know this works.
We know this gets us in front of our fishing, fishing autos, and we can, we can find out we
see we have so much data that we can tell when the shows were watched all those sort of things
they're all provided their way point. As for one person, most of these shows are one person.
We advertise with Rick Murphy annually who runs Florida insider fishing report. He also has
we also earlier this year we did the national show where he took they were on the lakes in
invernance as well as in the salt water,
so on the sportsman adventure is a nationally broadcast show
that he does.
So it's, you know, this is a significant portion of our tourism
is being on the water, all of us,
especially fishing, so with a chance to thank you.
Okay, don't leave.
No, I'm not going to go.
I wish you finn again, do you have any other questions?
Okay, I didn't want you to just have to keep going on and on and on, I do have a couple questions.
I'm going to ask you a few questions and please bear with me.
The Red Fish Circuit.
Here.
Where are red fish at?
I'm not a fisherman.
Are there red fish in the lakes in hernandow?
No, that's a saltwater species.
Okay, so salt water. That's what I want to know. Yes, sorry. Not a statement. So it would be
Crystal River area
Homassassa. Homassassa. Okay, I didn't see in this proposal what you would be putting on the boat
It's not a boat. It's a television show that the boat is a that's a we have a different sponsorship where we're doing that. This is strictly
It's a custom boat route with you featured on the custom boat route.
Six full day fishing charters.
No, I know.
I'm asking what it's going to be.
It would be the logo, which has the discover pressure of the logo with the communities
underneath it.
Okay.
list, Inverness, Florida City, and Homosasa.
Thank you. And in this $18,000 television wrap situation, it's a six-fold
days fishing charters with Captain Brandon Brandt. Who gets to go fishing with?
That's what I was talking about where we take our media partners, when we have travel
writers come in or the trade folks. That's where we get exclusively. We want you on
links in Inverness today for this, or we take them scalloping or out on the insure, you know,
you know, as a captain he knows some of the ins and outs certainly of insure, so there's
we have a lot of options on that.
Oh, he thank you.
And I want to tell you, not a fisherman, but I am very aware of Captain Branch and he does
can get, I would like to see one, the data, but he's up to 20 million views.
This guy's no joke, but I would like it to be, I'm not going to support this today, because I want
it to come back with saying where these six fishing charters are going to go, because there is no
way I would want it to all be Christopher. You can say almost that's it, but I want to see it,
I want to see it in black and white.
I want to see where we'd be positioned for 18,000 on the boat.
We're going to be behind the motor.
There's just some questions I would like to see.
But if I just had a little bit more data,
I would definitely support this because of Captain Branch.
But I want to see what you plan for the lakes,
what you plan for home as NASA.
Who would be taking out?
because I don't know who you take out.
You got a lot of perks in a lot of these things,
but I never know who goes out.
What media goes out, or is it just you, John,
going out on six, done the tours all the time?
Is it, is it good for your Davis?
Are you out there fishing all the time?
And I don't know it.
But I just would like a little bit more information.
And I do think I understand where you're going,
but I think that you need to give us a little bit more
information.
You're fine, mate.
Yes.
Thanks for throwing that out there.
No, I have never been on one.
I believe the only staff that may go out there is the
is possibly Terry that I'm not sure who handles the fam trips.
It's everybody but me pretty much.
It depends on where we are in terms of conferences,
trade shows, but the material in Jody are there are two primary dealers and Terry works
with the travel trade, the people that are booking the rooms and Jody generally handles
the media.
So I just want to introduce a different thought here.
If we are to work as a team, we really need to try to respect each other's experiences and what
we're doing.
The TDC board is working very hard on this.
I have heard everybody loud and clear.
I do understand that the perception is that we're not working outside of
Christopher, I've already put multiple things in motion to
assuage all of those concerns.
I believe including Mr. Pricer will be giving a full presentation of
everything that the TDC does next to you.
to make sure that the commission is comfortable with all of that.
And so I would just like to suggest that we need to still try to keep things moving
while those changes are taking effect.
We have much, much, much bigger priorities that we need to focus on.
And all it would,
we keep knocking it out of the park
with our budget keeps going up and up and up and up because we are doing things right.
And so ultimately, you know, we've had a staff morale problem in the past.
I think that's getting a lot better.
We need to not go backwards in that area with the BCB staff as a whole because they all watch this.
Well, I'm glad they watched it and I hope they hear me when I say,
This has nothing to do with trust. I want to know what the plan is that if this is coming before me
I'm not gonna just blindly because I think you're a media genius. I want to know where they're going to be what the plan is.
Just saying hey, we're going to do this. There's six trips and I mean there's a lot of questions. So like I said
It has nothing to do with trust or morale of the TDC staff.
This is give us a little bit better information with more information so that when we get
the emails and we get it because I get the heat, I want to say I voted for this because
I'm going to tell you right now they get 20 million views but I'm not seeing any backup data
in any of this.
I'm just a trust that is that is right and I'm just I'm that's all I have to say
Would you refresh my memory, John was the presentation more detail of them with us in our B.O.C. because it's been a couple of weeks
No, this is what this is what was provided like up branch
And he was there. He made a he made a verbal presentation at the T.D.C. meeting
So that's on camera on video on exactly everything that was included. It was at the January
of 23 meeting. You know the day I'll go watch it. Second Wednesday of January. I mean that's
that's when we meet. I don't remember the digit currently. 1-11. Very good. Is this your base? You had
something?
If somebody was going to go out and buy this meaty package because that's exactly kind of
how I see it, that we're subsidizing.
This person's advertising media. What would this package cost anybody else to go out and buy?
I don't have an answer for that one. This is what was presented to us, and I don't know if we got a hometown discount,
because he's a local versus a national show. I thought it was a further, the amount of what we're getting.
I thought it was very much in line.
We've paid more for other things.
And I think this one was, I think it was a very much in line.
I think the ability to showcase a homegrown talent
is important as well that we show that we're
that the county is supportive of the local entrepreneurs.
And I believe that, like I said,
is, through waypoint, if it was just on some other type of network, I don't think we would have
been as enthusiastic about bringing it forward.
But because the documented views that you that waypoint generates and its lead in the fishing
content area, made it something that we definitely were excited about to bring forward
to the TEC and ultimately to the commission.
Anything else?
Why is there a time limit on this?
You said that this fall is moving.
And why can't I have the time to go watch this?
Is there time, Sunson?
I mean, if you need two weeks to, I think two weeks would.
No, we don't mean to.
For another two weeks.
Well, I know, but I know that was the next day.
So if two weeks is sufficient, then yeah, that will be fine.
I'm already making the presentation that day, so that will be just another item that we could do.
It was more of a global comment that so much attention has been focused on every single thing that TVC sends forward to BCC right now seems to get
come up in the works and I just want I was trying to make sure that you knew that you
everyone has been heard and we're working on this stuff but there's some things that
I thought were easier proves. However, it totally let's wait two weeks. Find with me.
Yeah, because it just mentions red fish and found out that's only two areas of the county.
Six trips didn't tell me who was going on the trips. There's a lot of, I mean,
Yeah, and things are being watched and the staff needs to hear that.
Everything is being watched.
So it doesn't mean that this is in a good project.
Like I said, I'm very aware of this captain.
If I had a little blur information, I'd be voting for it right now,
because of Captain Breach's track record.
Madam Chair.
Yes.
I guess I set through these meetings.
And so I hear everything first hand and I prepare for the meeting and all of that and it's obviously been a while
I didn't even re-review this
So so what do you I'm just saying that it's
I
The more detail part and everything like that like I see all that detail
So I understand what I'm hearing you is that you need to hear see all that detail to double check the other boards work and that's fine
It can wait
So, we have a motion on this, would you?
I will revise the motion to table it for two weeks.
And I will revise my second to table it.
Thank you.
Madam Chair, before they were done,
correction I need to make earlier Commissioner Davis talked about the division of the pennies.
This is actually a reserve fund, the special projects,
and Commissioner Davis and I had a discussion about
It's at the right name for it as it's really an advertising opportunity fund.
I found out that it's part of our admin regulations regarding the VCP reserve funds as
why it's called special projects.
So somewhere along the lines when this reserve was created, that was the name it was given.
So unless we change the AR, no matter, we can't really officially change the name,
But the use of the fund is advertising opportunities.
And some of these things, I heard Commissioner Frederick
and talking about the budget and allocating it.
We do that.
These are opportunities that come along
that we did know about, as I've already submitted,
the budget for review in March.
It would have to be in the system.
And we're talking about things that were presented in January of 23.
I can't forecast everything, so this opportunity to move money into our advertising budget allows
us to utilize the successes of the program. The last two years have been record years, but
unless we have access to these transfers, the department doesn't get a chance to utilize
some of the spoils, so to speak, and reinvest those things into the marketing.
So, I'm sure.
Yeah.
Hold on.
I appreciate that.
I'm going to say it again.
I hope you're staff here, sis.
The only district that doesn't have tours and don't get anything from y'all.
But, I did hear.
Commissioner Davis say, I'd like to start doing something district three.
I didn't appreciate it that.
But that being said, you are under a microscope, especially for me, because I'm very sensitive to this.
I want to know where this money is going throughout the rest of the county.
I know you're saying that, but if you don't show me that it's going to go somewhere,
then I just have to always trust you that you're doing that.
It's not an always thing. That's what I was saying. It's all in the works.
Right, but that's what I want. So if you're hearing me, I want to know what area that this is going to target where we're going.
Don't do that, Frank, because I will all ask and don't be disrespectful.
Thank you.
Commissioner Finning, if you want to say something.
I have a question.
Yes.
You're saying that this money may be something called special projects.
So my question to you is, is this in the same pot of money or a different pot of money,
then special projects such as the River Restoration Money that we just expanded?
That is the capital 1% that what we did for Save Crystal River and what the River Project received comes from the capital portion that is set aside.
This is when, so for example, we budgeted 1.8 last year for our budget, which is 80% of the money.
We collected 3.1 million total, so 80% of that is to six in that neighborhood, so the difference
between our budget and what we generated revenue-wise, that gets fixed at the true of time,
and that goes into the special projects fund.
Anything we do above budget goes in there as a reserve.
So to answer my question, is the set of the same budget line part of money where you can do the river restoration projects or other special projects or is this a different line item?
I had this, it's a different fund.
This special project is a different fund.
The capital items is its own fund and it only, only.
So, we are two, two, we are two, one, two, two.
And the special project, I mean, that special project,
and capital is two, two, one, H.
So those are, that's the, I don't believe the capital
wants to list it on that, if that's our summary of accounts,
I don't believe it's on there.
If it is, it's on the very last numbers.
There's a indirect cost budget adjustment,
reserved carry forward budget adjustment,
reserved cash forward.
I don't know.
Yes, I don't believe the capital gets budgeted in that big budget.
There's a special project, 5821.
Correct.
Which it looks like it's a $1 million.
That would be right at the beginning of the fiscal year.
And is that's where this money is coming from or no?
The 18,000 is coming from that number correct.
The river money is coming from this or now.
No, that's coming from the capital, which is a different fund.
Thank you for clearing that up for me.
And if there is money in this special project's budget at the end of the year,
and it's true to, does it still stay in that category?
Or does it get pushed in the capital or is that in the lab?
No, it stays in that reserve fund.
So it rises and falls depending on how well we do.
I do want to say for Commissioner Davis' benefit that your well-experienced
marketing, it seems that I think to wait is prudent for the community because for whatever reason
the community has been emailing a lot about this fund, TDC.
So, for us to have all the information, and I hope when you come back, that you don't rely on us watching the show,
I think there was a lot of questions asked, and I would really like to see everything and great detail in the back of documentation,
because that is public record, and I think that only benefits you, and the TDC and all of the commissioners,
so that when we do get emails, asking to explain things, we can explain things very well.
I'm going to thank you for that.
It's all in the works.
Thank you.
Miss Flint.
Yes.
Thank you.
I asked Miss Parker that the agenda cut off deadline for the next meeting was April 20th.
So I think the motion was to bring it back in two weeks.
Again, could if we could just say bring it back on the next available agenda rather than two weeks.
Because we're not going to make it.
Wait.
April 20th is a Thursday.
That's the agenda cut off.
That's when we have to have all the materials in the system.
Our next meeting is until May 11th, and your agendas come out a week in advance.
The pessimist or preacher will need some time.
That's okay.
You're given the presentation.
Give them a beer bowl.
He's going to be here, giving a presentation.
I don't think it's that hard.
The few questions we ask.
No.
What I'm saying is the agenda cut off.
I think he's on the next agenda is what she's saying.
He's already on the agenda and this could just be included with what he's his presentation on the next agenda.
The agenda's already done for the next meeting.
I understand, but he's on the agenda.
For a different, you want this agenda item.
You're tabling this agenda item, which means this backup material is going to go forward.
If I may ask Madam Attorney, what do we legally have to do to allow staff to add this item into his presentation and make it a voting document?
What motion do I need to make?
How is the agenda done if I don't get the agenda and fill May 2?
Because it takes time for all of the departments to review and we have to have deadlines.
I understand that, but the Commissioner deadlines are this Friday.
Correct.
This coming Saturday.
So I'm asking you what motion do I need to make to take this agenda item with all
of its backup and put it into his presentation and making an voting item?
I don't know the answer to that because that's outside of our rules and regulations.
So, we tried to discourage commissioners from putting agenda items on that staff as opposed to put on.
I don't know.
The administrator and the assistant administrator are here.
I don't know how they want to handle this.
I'm just the lawyer.
Yeah, I think we can take.
We've got directions.
I think from the board and more.
I think Commissioner Davis can put it on her agenda item.
If her deadline is Friday, I mean, this isn't, you know, brain surgery.
Rob's gonna say rocket science.
I mean, does it, nobody wants to, like, do we have to put it on the next agenda?
Is it that important?
It's just at a point.
And one fell sweet with this presentation.
That's that we're taking our others.
I mean, I'm in different.
However, however, the OSF staff work it out.
You have a motion before to table it.
Mm-hmm.
I have a second.
Do I need to open it up?
Did I already open up the public comment?
I don't even know where I'm at.
I don't believe so.
Okay.
Thank you, sir.
So if we're tabling it,
figure it out.
Staff will figure it out.
And I know I need to open it up for public comment.
Sir, any public comment on E9?
Mr. Davis.
Hi, Jean Davis. I'm a lifetime resident of Inverness City Council member, and I just want to commend you for opening up the dialogue on the
Emberness East Side and West Side. I can tell you that from council and me as a resident being here, we feel like we're a redhead and step child to
Crystal River. When we see millions of dollars that are being collected and and I honestly, I've watched the fishing shows and I see a little blurb
Ernesto Torcetti.
It said, it's all about Christopher. And I would challenge you to say that number one, perceptions of funny thing. My perception of it can be different than your perception depends on where we're from.
But I would challenge you to say that when somebody comes to Christopher, the common, the common thread we continue here, we don't collect bad tax dollars over here. That is true. We don't have the hotels and hotels you have, but I can challenge you to say that those people go over, they may go see the manatees one day.
They may go fish a day and most of the time
Manipete manatee observers and the fishermen are two different classes people
Then they're coming over to Emerniss. They want to see the back trails. They want to see our 27-mile chain of blakes
They want to go downtown Emerniss. This is the county seat
But yeah, we get no credit for that extra night or two that's being spent over there. So anyway for transparency
Command you I would we look forward to working with commissioner Davis and the TDC and how we can how we can make
that a little fair process as we go forward.
But anyway, thank you for looking at it tonight.
Thank you.
Thank you, sir.
Any other public comment?
Any further board comment?
I do.
You have under it.
Visit Crystal River.
And then it has homelessness.
Inverness, floral city.
Can we add Beverly Hills in there?
Yes, Mr. Williams.
I would just like to tag on to that.
Sometimes I think the translation gets lost on tourism and bedtax and, you know, hotels but that
bedtax is collected on anything six months or less and we have a lot of rentals.
A lot of houses that work collecting that tax on on this side of the county.
You know, I know the cove has things you have all the RV parks.
You have a number of things that work collecting that on.
It doesn't mean because we don't have hotels over here necessarily that we're not contributing.
There is that other component where people are coming in.
So, you know, I think that would be very nice to bring that in.
I would also like to recommend that we may be based on the last couple of years of scalloping
that we shorten our scallop period just to give some reprieve.
I'm starting to hear that our scallop season is not as good as it used to be and that
need to give it an opportunity. So I think that's something worthy of looking at as well.
Okay, thank you. Any further board comment?
I'm giving you the opportunity. I cannot read your
mind. So you have to be out there with me. I'm like a dog with a bone when some go and I'm going. So I just
wanted to, I don't know if now was, I mean, we could talk to staff later, but Commissioner
and I cannot talk. So I might as well talk to you now. I have thought the same thing. I'm sure
tourism probably doesn't make that but there's not going to be any if we keep having these
dismal scallops seasons which the last year was very dismal in the year before that wasn't great.
I just don't know that we decide that I think it's safe, correct? Now we expanded hours really.
See this is why I have to see this is why we have to do it now because I can't how this comes
with her later, so I guess you want to say something about that.
If WC decides the seasons.
That's what I call it.
But you don't have to.
They decide the season.
You decide how long you want to open it for.
No.
If WC decides when the season starts and wins it ends.
I know, but you don't have to have it.
Open that entire period.
I don't know that for sure.
I will follow up.
And I know Casco is opening up their season.
So I think, I think Hernando is as well.
So, I think that what I do know about that breeding cycle, I think it's going to further
hamper what our production is going to be here.
My understanding was also that it's FWC, but Mr. Howard, if you have the appropriate staff
to get the appropriate answers, I would be fantastic.
We will do that.
Thank you.
Thank you, thank you.
Any further?
Board comment?
All in favor of tabling this, say aye.
Aye.
same name, that passes 4-0. Commissioner Bays on item E. I'll get it. Just give me a second.
E six, I need a vote for the release of retainage. I need your vote. E seven, fire service
assessment program. I need your vote. Approved. On E eight, waste disposal, account agreement,
right tree service. I need your vote. I approve. Thank you. Got that, Miss Amy? Yes, that's it. Thank you. Okay. Now we are in E 10.
I'm sure I make a mission to approve E 10. Second. I got a motion by Commissioner Finnegan. I heard
Commissioner Bay's first. Is there any public comment on E 10? Seeing none, is there any further board comment?
Hearing none. All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. That passes four zero. E 11 by send by
Senals Park and pool facility use agreement. Motion for for the 11.
Motion by Commissioner Finnigan.
I heard Commissioner Davis that time. Is there any public comment on E 11? Is there any further
board comment on e11. All in favor say aye. I oppose say nay. Passes 40. E12. E12 is
a FTA fiscal year 2023 certifications and assurances A, B, C, and D. Looking for a motion.
I'll make a motion to approve E12, A, B, C, and D. I have a motion by commissioner again. Second
by Commissioner Davis. Is there any board any public comment? Seeing none is there any further
board comment? All in favor say aye. Aye. Opposed say nay. The pass is four zero. We pulled
E 13 E 14. Make a vote for the 14. Motion by Commissioner Finnegan for the Florida Department
the Transportation State Block Grant.
I'm looking for a second.
The Mr. Davis.
Is there any public comment on E14?
Seeing none is there any further board comment?
All in favor say aye.
Aye.
Opposed say nay.
Aye, sorry.
The pass is 40.
E15, Transportation Disadvantaged Trip
and Equipment Grant Application.
One of my favorite boards, by the way.
Motion to approve E15.
Thank you.
Second. Motion by Commissioner Finnagan.
Second by Commissioner Davis. This is any public comment.
See, then, is there any further board comment?
Select your children. If you have a favorite, and you don't want to tell them, but this is one of my favorites.
Don't tell any of the other children. So all in favor say aye, aye. Opposed say nay passes 40. Thank you. E 16.
Motion to produce 16.
Mr. Finnagan for Citrus County Behavioral Health Transportation Plan. I'm looking for a second.
Like a child. I don't like commissioner Davis. Any public comment?
Seeing none any further board comment? All in favor say aye.
Opposed say nay.
Passes 4-0. E-17.
Course Civic Contract Monitoring Update for March 2020.
Mr. Howard.
I do not other than we continue to work close with them, I think we're getting close to
bringing forward an endendum.
And also I think they also have agreed to a contract monitor, which we're going to bring
forward as well at their expense.
I think that's all positive news as we continue to try to strengthen that relationship.
Thank you.
I'm looking to approve E-17.
Motion by Commissioner Bayes.
I'm looking for a second.
Second by Commissioner Finnigan.
Is there any public comment on course of it?
see none any further board comment. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Post say nay. Passes 4-0.
F. Outstanding Commission items. Mr. Howard. Just one item being told by staff that Mr.
Starrie, how will he smitting the permit application this week is what we're being told.
So we'll keep you updated if that materializes.
was. Okay,
is there anything else? It's all informational. That's all. Okay, item G, G1.
What else? Mary to come forward and maybe it's maybe a tag team with some of her staff and even
Eric. But this is this one item that was brought up during our strategic planning retreat to look at any
and all options and potential opportunities, tools in the toolbox. So this is one of the staff
I wanted to bring forward at least get some consideration a little bit of direction going forward.
So, thank you.
Good afternoon, Mary Jensen Public Works Director.
So, we have everything in place currently and we've had it since actually the AR was written in 1985.
We have the LDC is in conjunction with the AR.
They all are in agreement or the board to choose what roads they accept or do not accept.
both commercial and residential, both by family.
All that is in place, it has been in place
for many, many years.
Previous boards have chosen to have a preference
for which roads they accept for county maintenance
in which roads they do not accept.
In the past, the preference has been commercial,
they do not accept residential roads they do.
And as budgets get tightened and gas tax is non-existent, it's going down every year, we
as staff are just asking the board if it's still your preference to actually accept residential
roads or is there a new preference?
Perhaps maybe to look at it more in-depth, Eric Joanna, Walt and I, and Carl, when I'll look
each development, each road, you know, if it's a collector, maybe we accept that road, but perhaps
at the board's discretion, maybe we don't accept a blanket of residential, maybe we do.
We just, after this really wants to see the direction that the board wants us to continue to go on.
If it's something different, or if it's the same.
And as county engineer, I do bring every road up to you to bring into our system, so I would like direction as well.
We want to start.
You don't mean how like roads or back there up.
I think this is a great opportunity to take as a county to look at this.
We know the deficit that we have been funding to maintain our roads currently.
We have a lot of new developments coming in.
And I think, as you said, our plant or land development code right now for any of these
PUDs, they would have to build them to county standards, but we don't have to accept them.
So from my standpoint, this is an opportunity that we, you know, we're going to have to
grow up.
We're going to have to start to be like counties surrounding us, stop accepting these roads.
they'll have to put a mechanism in place in these large-scale subdivisions that will maintain
these roads because I think we're going to hear more discussion we have not maybe the next
agenda or maybe sometime next month we're going to be talking about an MSTU or BU on how
going to fund roads. So, this is an opportunity that we can start to divest
ourselves of having to have those funds allocated in these subdivisions.
One caveat that I'm concerned about, and you know, we did have that you and I've had
this conversation in Joanne is, what are we going to do, and how would we handle some of these
smaller areas that are, you know, maybe dirt or limerach roads that somebody can just go in and build a house and might be, you know, five acre lots.
We used Cardinal as an example, some little roads off of that.
That's been developed years ago, but what would be, I'd like to hear some of your thoughts, maybe you're not prepared today to talk about that, but I do see that as a problem.
I think there's particularly on the east side of the county.
There's some areas that you almost need like a sand buggy to get to them.
And then I'm fearful that we'll end up in the same situation like we did with the
Embroness village as four.
If we're not cognizant and have a plan of action for those type developments.
So, I'll color outside the lines, I'll look to our attorney, she's phenomenal, and also
Joanna.
But, unfortunately, we do have plats that exist that are old and we could potentially end
up with situations like Invernance Village or again in various places throughout our county.
We don't have, and this is where I'm looking to our attorney, the mechanisms in place to stop
that. There's nothing legal that I'm aware of, necessarily, that we can do to fix the past
extent.
I'm not going forward. Going forward, if we have a situation where we just have some
roads that's not really a subdivision, but somebody can go in by a piece of property,
develop, you know, put a house on it, it could be maybe, you know, two houses, four houses,
six houses, whatever it is, it's not really a subdivision, it's just a road. What is
Your consideration or your ideas or thoughts about going forward with those types of situations.
I think it all depends on the plant.
Do we have a way to...
Make to require them to build those roads to a county standard, or can we have step zones for development
of those?
So I don't think Joanna is here and I don't know if Eric knows off the top of his head, but
we do have a provision in the LDC that you can't build a single family. You can't subdivide
something, like you're describing, like if there's one lot of record and there's one
house to be built on that one lot, someone can't go in and build five houses without providing
actually. They would have to plant that. Well, I think we're missing the point. What I'm trying
to say is that if we had, I'll use Thomas Road off of Cardinal as an example. So it was a road,
but there's maybe five acre tracks. And so there's several homes that are built along that particular
road. That's what I'm trying to get at. I'm not talking about a parcel and somebody
dividing it up. I'm saying if we've, if it's already been plated, but there's no real road
to it. And somebody wants to come in and buy 10 acres and build a house and the next person wants
to build, you know, buy 10 acres and build a house. Can't is there some mechanism in our land development
code that we can get to so that they just can't build on dirt roads and then, or can we have
that zoning that you have to have a line-rock based road that you're going to maintain, or
the, I see what you're saying.
So you're talking about an existing plat that's old.
Yes.
And somebody wants to come in today.
Today, just like with Invernous Villages for, we do not have anything within our LDC that would require
someone to have a paved road before they build a house.
So we have nothing in the LDC at this time.
You could certainly put something in your LDC that says that you can't build on a non-paved road
But you are going to
You seriously, I mean, I think you would need to look and see how many parcels or properties you're going to affect and whether you're going to affect the rural nature of
What some people want
But you could certainly put that in your LDC that somebody can't
You know build on
dirt or clay or I mean you could do it. Our former building official wanted, you know,
he mentioned that many times as a solution, but it was always, it would affect too many,
too many. There would be too many unintended consequences. That's the word I was looking
for. But you could do it. It's not there now. So if all things being equal, if just these
new developments, we could deny accepting those.
But I think that to me is a good start point.
But I think we need to have that look at how many old developments
are studying out there that could potentially be a problem,
one where the other.
I would like to see that information, but my preference
would be not to accept these major developments and their
I just, when we're saying accepting, I don't think you're saying you don't want to accept the dedication of the roads.
You're saying you don't want to accept maintenance of the roads.
I just want to make sure we're all clear on the record because those are two separate things.
And that's one of the issues we deal with and everybody's village is for is that the dedication has been accepted by the county.
Just not acceptance of the maintenance of the roads.
But even accepting the dedication, they could come back and say, hey, these are county roads
you're responsible for paying them.
They cannot say that because the statute says that we once, the statute provides that
even if we accept a dedication to the public of the roadways, we are not obligated to improve
them, build them, construct them, or maintain them.
But the perception is we're ignoring a neighborhood and we are responsible for these
rows and that is what is out there and what we get all the emails about and we're still
going to be in the same situation, PR-wise.
So what you're proposing then is they would literally have to create like an HOA or some
mechanism as they, these developers come in, they build these subdivisions that they have
to collect so much money from each one of the residents to maintain that road.
Correct.
There's got to be some sort of a vehicle because the county is no longer that vehicle.
And they would be required to do that.
If that is the pleasure of the board,
they would be required to do that in order for you to accept
the dedication of the roads, and to accept the platform recording.
Board any other?
I can I concur, but I would just add that there's really no for those that are existing
neighborhoods or not a developer.
There's always ways to get an MSBU through if it's already paved or if you want to go from
San Road, Del I'm Rock Road, whatever, just need 50% plus one.
So the mechanism is there that we can still be the person that, or that,
or that concept, basically.
Yeah, we have an AR for that.
So.
I'm sure thinking.
So just to clarify, we're still accepting the dedication,
and the new development comes and paves everything,
sells the homes,
Maintains the roads for three years. And then we never accepted the maintenance.
I guess there would be an assumption that there's paved county roads. So then what happens
when there's pot holes and the roads need to surface and obviously they're not ours to maintain.
I guess how how does the public in that development know?
So if there's not an HOA or something established, I'm trying to look forward before all
the stickiness happens because I'm sure it will because we're dealing with it now.
And I'm just another question and maybe you're ready to answer them all.
So if we, can we say if we're not accepting all these roads and they are paved and they're
for three years for the developer to say, we're not going to accept them, but we will put
an MSBU immediately on that subdivision that can be do that, so that the roads will always
be maintained.
So, to answer your first one, that's where fact versus perception comes into play, just
like the chairman said, the law does not require you to do it, but people just assumes
since they pay taxes that they will have a road to drive on.
So I especially, if it's already paved, I'm sensitive to your concerns in your question.
And that's the perception issue that you all have to make a decision about.
And when you're saying, put it on three years developers maintenance, that's the current regulation.
I don't know, I don't think we would have that same three-year requirement, because...
Yeah, we wouldn't be involved.
We would be y'all are on your own with your roads.
So there is, I mean, the subdivision would have to petition us, the homeowners.
Like let's say they're in a homeowner's associate.
In a neighborhood there's 20 houses, there's a homeowner's association, and all of a sudden
all the homeowners association people all get old, pass away, go in assisted living, whatever
there's no officers or directors of the association, and then there's no one to maintain the
roads.
That's when they could come to the county, whoever's left and say, you know, forcent MSVU
on us, or we'll vote for an MSVU, but it wouldn't happen immediately.
They would buy with the knowledge known or unknown that they were buying into an area that
the roads were not going to be maintained by the county.
Now, one of the biggest subdivisions that I understand that's coming before you, I've had conversations with lawyers on their behalf, and they're setting up a community development district.
Similar to the way things are in the villages.
So in that situation, there's so much more than roads that the folks are buying into. So that wouldn't be a problem.
the problem that you're describing would come into smaller subdivisions like the, you know, the, you know, when you have 20 lots, you know, 25 acre lots with one road going in and out.
That's, that's the areas and that may be one that your county engineer recommends that you do take the roads in that neighborhood because it's just one.
All right, first blush, I like the idea of not putting all these extra roads because I think developers do that.
They make all the money, they leave, and we're left putting the bill.
I just want to make sure before we move ahead and starting to do that,
that we look 15 years down the road and see what all the problems could be,
so that whatever we're deciding makes the most sense.
Thank you.
I believe this is what we talked about to it, the retreat is we're looking at alternative funding mechanisms for this whole thing.
So I guess right now where I am is if you're in a hole you stop digging so we probably shouldn't accept anymore in my mind,
at least for the for the near future until we figure out exactly how we're going to wrestle this existing problem.
But your points are very well taken.
And I agree.
Come a share base.
Is there a way to required the developer to
put in place?
Do they're at, do they're at, like an MSPU?
And I'm just going to use hypothetically.
Look, well, let's use rock-cresher, let's use anything that's being that all these new ones that were doing.
is there how do we get there legally how do we get there that they so even at the end of
three years the developers I built out I'm out of here I'm gone I don't care it's on you
you figure it out how do we make sure that we get to the end result that we want and keep it
moving forward so any that that have already been approved like you just described those examples
those, you can't do anything about those, because those are already under the existing approvals.
So, those plots have already been recorded, that we are stuck, we have those roads.
Going forward, the way that you protect the county is, there is no three years developers' maintenance type language anymore.
it is upon acceptance of the final plat, the developers on notice that we are not and will
not, won't ever accept the roads for maintenance, and then they have to create the mechanism
whether it is a homeowner's association, property owner's association, community development
district, something. And we're going to look at the documents that they've prepared to create
these things. We're going to make sure that they're recorded in the public records on the date that
Now, whether the developer is honest and forthright with the people that are buying the
lots and tells them, hey, by the way, you're in a homeowner's association, which I,
either the developer, I'm going to control for the period until I sell out X number of
percent of the lots. And once I'm out of here, y'all are, it's on you. Now, whether the developers
going to be honest with them, you don't know, but you hope they, you hope they are and you hope
that we don't have people coming in five years later saying,
well, I thought I was paying county taxes to take care of these roads.
So what the reverse thing does be to say everything
that comes in, we're gonna have an MSB on it,
so that you're guaranteed that?
Well, I think you are looking at, I know,
that's why I'm saying, like it, going forward.
I mean,
I don't think, I mean, I don't know,
but I thought the MSBU was for resurfacing.
So the initial road construction or whatever until,
so I don't know how long it takes a road
to need resurfacing five, seven, 10, I don't know.
25 is what we're holding.
Oh, 25, 20, I'm just the lawyer.
So for the first 25 years, I don't know who's
going to maintain them.
Can I help commissioner Bayes?
I think what correct me for my commissioner Bayes
trying to say is, so do what we're doing and county accept the maintenance, but immediately
say, this is a new development, you're getting an M.S.B.U. so 20, 25 years later, that pot of money
is that what is that what you're trying to ask her?
Certainly, you all have the ability to set up M.S.B.U.s, so are we, may I keep going?
I don't want to, I don't want to cut her off.
So we have a whole county and everyone wouldn't be paying that.
So for people that are just moving to this new development,
are we allowed to say this development, this development
because they're all after ex-date, you all have MSBUs.
Is that allowed?
It's so hard to answer in the abstract, but theoretically you could put an MSVU on the subdivision,
but it sounds like what is being offered to you is that you give that all that responsibility to the developer,
and just don't even make the county responsible.
My only concern based on your questions is that whole perception thing that commissioned.
The chairman brought up, because no matter how many times we all know what the law is, you're still getting the emails.
That's my head.
The mission.
I'm assured.
And again, are you done?
Yes, I'm just wondering, before, I mean, I don't know, does this sound like a workshop?
I mean, I think that people in the community would maybe want to have a say, we're missing a commissioner.
I mean, obviously we're not changing anything and this is, no, this is just preference.
This is just preference and every road we accept or don't accept, I would come up in a
being a gender item.
So it's just a preference.
It's just to allow staff direction and just say, you know, we're interested in vetting this,
we're interested in this and that and so it's just a preference.
And there's the MSB idea, so obviously we needed to decide which way we're going to do that for development.
And there is not a vote, it is just a discussion and so it doesn't matter that can't are inside here.
So the preference would be not to accept our votes.
My preference would be today, not to accept our votes.
It was sure Davis.
Yeah, my preference was to slow our roll, pardon the pun.
What I was going to say before that came about, as I have two words, blighted neighborhoods.
If they don't take care of it themselves, then we've got a paved version of IV4.
And we have to keep a tidy county and everything needs to be paved in a good condition.
So I am concerned about that and that's why I think we're going to get ahead of it this year in figuring out the alternate funding mechanisms.
So,
well to Commissioner Davis's point then I would like that information you know what what is that look like if this
Board in the future said we do want to accept them but no more burden to the taxpayers people that are moving here
Going to take care of these specific roads. What is that cost?
What does that look like? I would like to have a little more information on that option to and I don't
Expect you to answer that today, Mary, but just in the future. What is your question?
If this board decided when a development comes up,
very given us the option of saying she might say,
hey, this is where we need to accept these words.
We don't, or maybe she'll say this community,
you don't need to accept these words.
But there would be another option.
The county clinics have them,
but that entire community from the Gekko
is going to have an MSVU,
so you'd never have that blighted neighborhood
to Commissioner Davis's point.
So we would be maintaining them that that community would pay for that community so if that could be an option
I would just like more information of what that would look like financially to each homeowner which I'm sure it's different
You know, we need scenarios because I'm sure it depends on how many homes and a lot size and things like that the best you could do because I have
you know zero knowledge word that would start so I mean I'm sure you would give us a
range you know yeah it's like a hundred eighty six thousand dollars a mile for a
general road and unless you get into the citrus springs and pyrage and it's closer
to three fifty three eighty okay so does that make sense it's just the more
information if we did want to say we'll accept them but all these communities they're
going to be paying for themselves no extra burden on our current taxes if I made that
That's what I was saying is that I believe we talked about that at the retreat in the alternate
funny mechanisms.
Isn't this going to be like a big presentation this year?
I thought it was in there for you for everybody.
It is.
But that's what I'm saying.
But you're asking for the detail more is that part of our journey.
But also is part of that larger conversation because we need to fix the old communities.
I think we're heading in that direction.
And I think that we've all beat that to that.
Thank you, I was going to say talk this to a to death but and I'm sorry, but so tomorrow if developer Lynn is putting in her out.
No, no, you're already in the 20 I know I want to be two guys.
All right, Jean Davis is sitting in the audience if Mr. Davis and it's an application tomorrow for his 20 home some division is staff going to process that application only if he tells them how he's going to maintain the road
or is this going to come back and I mean staff needs to know what they're telling
people tomorrow when they drop the application off. I know you said you're not
voting but it was my understanding that you would bring that to us and make
your recommendations. So I would assume she would just tomorrow make her
recommendations and I think now that Eric and Joanna Walt Carl and I would
we get together, we've heard your direction,
and we would talk about how this would go.
And I'm speaking for Eric, but we definitely
would need to discuss this with the community.
And there is a point on us, once you submit the plans
and we approve them, then you're cut off.
And we actually have to accept the roads.
But there's a certain point.
So we do have time to be able to get this out
and have the developers understand what the preference is going to be from here going forward.
Yes. So my preferences that all new subdivisions would require a recorded HOA and would
provide perpetual maintenance of the roads and the DRAs within the subdivision. That's my
And DRAs.
H-O-O-P-O-A.
Thank you.
I think just to provide for perpetual maintenance.
And then they can decide whether that's going to be H-O-A, P-O-A, C-D-D.
Okay.
I like that.
I wish you gave us.
Yeah.
Wish you all.
That works.
We have a consensus.
You have a consensus. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mary. Okay, G2. Contract with
Duckit, Duncan, Associates for Impact, V, Analysis, A, M, B, approve and
authorize. The chair to execute the contract and be approved budget transfer. G2.
I'm just going to make a motion, Eric, but if you want to talk.
All second and then you can sign. So you can sign. I'll make the motion to approve G2A and
B. Thank you. Motion by Commissioner Finnigan. Second by Commissioner Bays. It's
really staff or public comment. If you wish, I'll be happy to answer any questions. I don't have
You're just so quick to jump out there.
I thought you had something to say to us.
Once you say, it's dinner time.
I'd be happy to talk about it.
But if you raise a move on, I'm happy to move on.
Is there any public comment about G2?
Seeing none.
Is there any further board comment?
All in favor say aye.
Opposed say nay.
We have a three zero right now.
G1, Mr. Discussion, and no vote, no nothing.
Good job, Eric, wait a minute.
OK, and now we are at item I, I1.
This is to nominate and appoint the Citrus County Veterans
Service Advisory Board.
I sit on this board and I would like to say that I wish
that all five of these gentlemen could be on the board.
I would like to make a motion, though, to nominate Andrew Brewer, Bill Maryman, and Greg
Pilateer.
That would be my recommendations and nominations to appoint for the three individuals to
fill the regular member's seats on this Veterans Advisory Board.
Two of them already sit there. They're very active.
It really truly, the other three, I would love to have on the board.
We do get a little benefit from David because he is thus billaracuses representative veterans representative.
So he's there anyway. So we kind of get a freebie with him.
So that is my motion.
I'm sorry.
Thank you.
I'm sure slave law made the motion to nominate Mr. Brewer, Mr. Maryman, and Mr. Pelleteer,
and a second-fight commissioner base.
Is there any public comment about this advisory board?
Nominations.
Any board comment?
Did you have any recommendations?
Yes.
recommendations, we get hit two of the three, was David Halbstein, Bill Maryman, and Greg
Pellitier.
But I do notice that Mr. Watson is here and if Mr. Howard, I would love to hear Mr.
Watson's thoughts and recommendations if that's fine with you, please come forward.
And you know, David's there anyway, that's why I said I get a free beat with him.
Well, I think it's nice, you know, for him to get the appointment, he's putting in the
time he has put in the effort and I would wholeheartedly recommend him.
Well, I have a motion for him.
How are you?
I'm good.
That's right.
Thank you.
Phil Watson Veterans Service Manager.
So, you know, obviously we had a great veterans community.
We have some great folks to choose from.
I can only speak to the people that I've engaged with throughout the community,
doing veterans issues.
So obviously Bill Merrimon, he's been on the board in great pellets here between the programs
that they run.
I deal with Greg a lot with the shelter he runs for almost veterans.
Bill does a lot for ease of, he's one of the post commanders.
He also has flagged disposable things like that.
Dave, I know quite well from Gus Miller-Axis office.
I've engaged with him in a lot of community activities across the board, not just veterans,
stuff but across the board. The other two people, honestly, I cannot speak to them. I've never
met them. I've never engaged with them in the community, so I can only focus on the three that
I do know not just on a personal level, but from community engagement across the community,
so that's my assessment on that. Thank you. I, the resume of Mr. Brewer was something I did not want
pass up. And like I said, I have Dave there anyway, and I would also get the benefit of Mr.
Brewer. That's why I did the motion the way I did. And I also areas, as may also. I mean,
there's just no losing with these five veterans. So I would encourage all five to attend.
But I Mr. Watson. So you're saying you get the benefit of Dave in which I think if he's
put in the time he should get the appointment, my opinion, but I don't know Mr. Burr also, but
would he still be allowed to attend also?
Yeah, they're public meetings, so they get advertised, so anyone, anyone that can be
an attend and they are advertised, legally, you have to advertise them, so anyone can attend
those meetings.
So I would say if we appointed David since he's already in the community, it was veterans
he is a veteran putting in time, maybe Mr. Burr or could just be the added benefit, and then
we could vote on him another year.
just gonna have to wait for your motion. I guess the last thing I would add is, so I got nominated.
I'm setting on Gospel of Rax as veterans committee for his district. So we had our first meeting
on Friday. Obviously Dave was at that meeting. But in Congressman Bill of Rax had a town hall here in
Emeritus and February. And so he announced at that town hall he's the point person for the house
for veterans issues.
So that's a pretty big deal for our district,
for our veterans, is our study member of Congress
is a point person for a few nice day's house,
for veterans issues.
So any connection that we can strengthen with that,
I think would be a long-term benefit for our community
as our 19,000 plus veterans.
And we continue to grow with our veterans.
And obviously we got a new veterans clinic
that's on that horizon.
And so, you know, I can just speak from my personal experience working with that office compared
to the previous district, it's night and day, and so I just want to add that for context.
Well, I would be happy to, you guys gave a very good argument, and I would be happy to amend
my motion to nominate David Helpsine, Bill Maryman, and Greg Pelleteer, if Commissioner
Bases.
Oh, second thing.
All right, with that.
So, a very good argument, and I would encourage the other two gentlemen very, very impressive.
I did ask the veteran community, and that's how I got Mr. Brewers recommendation from the veteran community talking to him, and he has a great reputation.
So that's why he was my choice, Phil.
That being said, is there any other public comment regarding this amended nomination?
I'm just tired and you just beat me down, so whatever.
Well, I wanted to say thank you to Mr. Watson and to the other people that we don't know.
Thank you for applying if you're out there listening.
I'm sure they're all fantastic veterans and I'd like that so many people.
And they're very well known in the veteran community.
So I did do my research on the others, so thank you.
Commissioner Davis.
Well, you reach out to the two applicants, personally, and invite them to come, because, you know, these are typically very happy, welcoming boards, and absolutely.
You know, we did that in the pilot community to get people to show up for the aviation advisory board and be part of the conversation, you know, because that's a real, that's a real interest of them.
And when people keep showing up, then, you know, they tend to also get appointed.
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Watson.
Is there any other public comment on this nomination?
See none any further board comment?
All in favor say aye.
Aye. Aye. Aye.
Opposed say nay.
That passes four zero.
I think I'm missing one vote.
From Commissioner Davis G2.
Aye.
That's four zero.
And that's the only one I was missing correct.
Okay, so that being done work committee reports, Mr. Bass.
Please don't say roads.
I just don't really have any reports.
We'll tell you that tomorrow at 3 o'clock we have our public
safety coordinating council meeting, which we've invited a whole bunch of people to the table to kind of get a grip on what we're doing in our community with where we have gaps or maybe we'll have overlaps on mental health and incarceration and a whole host of other things with public safety.
So we will be looking at that.
I still want to go back out and say just for more time,
thank you to FDOT District 7 for the stop light at Gospel Island on 44.
There will be a ways coming, but we got it.
And as of right now, we have the appropriation, the $9 million.
For the Empress Airport, we just got to make sure the governor signs it, don't jinx it.
Hey, put it out there in the universe, make him tell the people he's not going to sign in.
Anyway, good news.
Thank you.
And I want to thank Frank for all of this hard work.
Wherever he's at.
Thank you.
I'm going to help you.
Miss your fin again.
Anything?
Commissioner Davis.
I just had TDC in the last two weeks and it's only going to take about 30 minutes.
Is that okay?
Yeah, sure.
Go ahead.
I have 4 CF day after tomorrow.
So, I want something else next time.
Thank you.
And, Commissioner, finish and do everything for board meetings.
I mean, that you want to talk about, excuse me.
Committee.
Yes, just as we're thinking, FDOT, I was with them last night with the good people of sugar
Mel Woods, and representative actually, David Halbesine, from Congressman Villa Rackis's office.
It all started months ago when I was invited at a guest speaker, and the Congressman
and was also there. And then their complaints came up about road noise from the Parkway.
So we're not going to analyze that and try to help them a bit. I was not the solution
to the problem. So the congressman and I, with the joint effort we got to our senator
and health rep involved and sent a letter out an FZOT came out in great force last night.
heard the people of such as County, more specifically, Sugar Mill Woods, and are offering them
maybe not the solution that they wanted, but a solution. So it's nice that a state entity will
hear our voices, and I thank them for their time and efforts, and I'm sure the people of Sugar
Mill Woods are thinking them also. It's a good meeting. I'm curious, did they bring up because this
That was brought up at the MPO for the future extensions and Pine Ridge and the different neighborhoods that this is going to be going.
Going to have the same kind of problems.
Did they touch on that at all?
That they will be analyzing and doing the same studies for noise, which they did in the whole stretch that goes by sugarmoids.
But they're not going backwards.
So, once they get to your district and once they put it in, if people are complaining and saying,
oh well, now there is more people or when you stretch it out to the next leg, they're not going,
they're not going backwards and reassessing, but they will be assessing it next.
They do the noise study and it's an average of decibels, so it's not like if one motorcycle goes by
that hits 90, it's an average of all day.
They put in their module, full traffic,
going the speed limit before, you know.
And they assess from there.
And then they identify the houses
that would actually be affected.
And they have a formulae, I think it's over 15 decibels
what is normal, or it affects X amount of people.
They would give a better presentation.
But like in the case of Sherman, it was three houses.
But then they assess, like if they're gonna build a wall
what the cost will be. Well, it has to be under, I think, like the $40,000, which the
one house would have been like anywhere from 80, something, $1,200,000. So it didn't qualify.
And those were two houses together. And it has to affect two or more homes. So one house
was here. It was too expensive and only affected the one home. So they didn't qualify. And
then the two houses over here, it was just too expensive per home. So those three houses
and qualified, no more houses have been built since the study, but once they put it out to public
knowledge that the roots being built they don't go back. So the last study was 2015. So just
something to think about when the residents are sure they'll be asking you in the future, but that's
how that works. And they're very informative if you have any questions that you have to answer.
Thank you. Anything else?
That's it?
Thank you.
Bishop Noard is not here.
Commissioner Bays, anything?
Commissioner Davis, you have something on the agenda.
Yes.
And I believe going back to my notes,
we may have missed adding 01 to the agenda vote.
No, it's on here.
In my motion, did I say O1?
We updated it afterwards.
Remember, I had um, I just didn't write the note down.
Thank you for keeping us straight.
As I didn't take a note on what I'm about to do.
I know.
It's even, you know, it's hard to sit in those chairs.
It's even harder to be up here on video.
Trust me.
Um, so update on Imranus Villages for the A1 is what I wanted to hear from staff on exactly what we've done to be a real sticky wicket for the builder and the lot owner there.
What a generic backup.
Oh, he just left.
Left left.
Okay.
That's unfortunate.
that.
What I was really hoping for is that every other week we get a presentation from staff
very quickly about this any code violations, et cetera, et cetera.
There was some document they did put together, I thought, let's see if we can catch them,
but thought there was a document that they did put together. I thought we could, we can ensure
that they could move on to B and C and then backtrack to A. We can get them done. I drove
around again, I'm pretty much in there every week at this point, and I drove around again
with some more people that are yet also impressed with what a difficult position we're
in with that neighborhood.
So one of whom who was in the truck was one of our code compliance officers, and he said
Essentially, and I think we all understand how case cases work, right?
When there's a code complaint and everything, there's a case number filed, et cetera,
and they'll then transfer the property into another ownership,
so then they have to start the code over again, and they just keep doing this.
He's up to like 11 LLCs.
No, they're very good at this game.
Yeah, so yeah, he's, he's threading the needle.
So, so far, hopefully I'm not missing anything, because it's a long list, as Debbie, excuse me,
Swift must not happy, FWC is not happy, DEP, he's not happy, I took the state attorney around and he, he
crested that hill and he just, there's the bait and switch that's happening, I believe, is that first
neighborhood is paved, it has drainage, it has beautiful homes with barrel tile roofs and all of that and
He pressed that hill and he starts to come down and he uttered two words, he goes, oh boy,
because he saw the vista of what's going on in IV-4, and so there's a lot of people,
there's a lot of attention on this, and I would, in going over it with the state of attorney,
he said, oh good, Eric's there,
he said, yeah, well, the neighbors have basically
gone to every single government agency and every single government agency is saying our hands
are tied, which is their favorite phrase to hear.
And I'm being empathetic with that, Dr. Hill, when I say that.
And so I think we need all of the different government entities and agencies need to get in
a room together.
No sunshine thing, it would not be a public, so it would be one commissioner in the room
and one representative from all those entities and I did not get a chance to talk to the
attorney about this before the meeting, so she's now cringing. We can move on from that idea and give you
time to gather your thoughts and maybe go to Eric.
What were you talking about, B or C?
That was just, just you were just talking. It's something that's not A B and C. It was, it was me just
giving y'all an update, and so...
Sorry, Eric, you were almost gone.
It's okay.
So, like the mafia, we just pull you right back again.
Our office is active on two fronts,
an number in this village.
One with licensing compliance with the building department,
where they go and make sure that the trash is picked up,
silvence is up, that type of thing.
If they are out of compliance, then they are basically frozen,
and then they can't proceed with any of their inspections
until they pay the fine clean it up.
That's a nominal fee, so it's $100 each incident,
so that the builder moves on pretty quickly from that one.
The other one is code enforcement is actually gone out there
and notified folks that have clear property
without permits.
That would be the right of way or individual lots.
And they have, in the neighborhood, a 30-ish notification
sent out with registered mail and now that feedback is coming in from the folks that received
those letters. They go after the owner. So some owners from what I understand were unaware
that there a lot was being cleared and they have higher attorneys so they're taking action
that way because they don't want to be cited by code enforcement or something they were unaware of.
So that's working this way through the system. If unresolved or they call it unabated then it would
before a special master and they would, the special master would have the ability to give a daily
fine, which is a little more substantial until it's remedied. So that's what our office
is doing on a number of spillage. And that is exactly what I heard a couple different things.
Number one, they're clearing land without permission.
And they are, it's a higher professionalism
this outfit. They are moving dirt from one place to another without any permits and so when
they're cutting their new roads, which they're not supposed to be doing, they push dirt onto
unbuilt lots that they do not have permission to push the dirt on, and they're pushing the dirt
onto go for tortoise burrows. And there's all kinds of just very bad things happening. One gentleman said
that he bought the lot specifically, but it had an old live-out canopy, very, like, and there's
some beautiful trees that have been cut down over there. And, there, like, it's down
to, like, five or six trees on the lot now, the canopy's gone. And, he's one of the ones
that he was outraged, because he didn't get permission for that to happen. And so, also,
So there's a lot of houses being built in my neighborhood in Citrus Springs.
They go up, I watch it, you know, they clear the pad, they put the foundation down and
boom, that sucker is occupied like within six months.
And it's all tidy, there's no trash, there's one big dumpster out front, one porta-potty,
that's it.
You drive through and this village is for, and the officer that you sent out around with
said, you know, they have like one dumpster per street. Okay, and there's piles of trash and
they're making these little net fence boxes to throw trash in, and there's dust everywhere,
and there's trash flying everywhere, and it's, I get the sense that they are also doing this
do a slab, there are houses that look like they were half built three years ago. I don't
know when they were built, but there's the whole middle section of roads that have a slab.
They have bare-cinder block with a big spray painted address on the front. Some of them don't
even have roofs. They have the underlayment only. They didn't even put the shingles or the
is going to be if it's been sitting follow for three years and they just keep starting
new and my sense is that he's trying to mow through all of the land he has without any
of us figuring out a way to stop him. And to a person, every person I've taken out there and these
are all people that are very engaged in this are just like this can't happen. This can't happen.
It's just can't happen. We've got to figure out a way and that's why Madam maternity I would like
get all the agencies and the room together and figure out how we can shut this down because
it's not okay.
And I don't mean to cut you off.
I don't.
You don't have a lot of good words there, but I want to pull you back a little bit because
one you said where you live is such a spring.
She meant such a show because we both don't live in the same district.
Thank you.
So, that being said, do we need, do we have any questions for Eric, board, do you have any questions
for him?
I do.
I can be sure it's been again laid in.
I'll go ahead and let her go first.
I just put a cough dump in my cell.
If you hear-
There's somebody at $20 an hour, and you put them out there 10 hours a day, whatever, make it up. It's cheaper than legal fees.
Higher somebody, put them out there, stop them from daylight to dusk.
Well, that we have, I could enforce an officer that is assigned to that neighbor, and he goes out there with regular frequency, and every time there is a violation,
We have to go through the process so they send mail and notice a violation to property owner.
The property owner has 30 days to respond.
And then that's what gets the ball rolling.
What happens when they're moving dirt?
It depends if it would fall under the building inspection enforcement or the code enforcement.
So each one has their own process.
the building inspector enforcement does have the ability to stop them, but it's just $100 fine.
So they can show up with $100 and they move on and move the dirt to the correct spot.
So it's a little bit of a chase game where as soon as we notice the violation, it can be fixed.
Ultimately we're looking for compliance.
We're not looking to build a war chest.
We want it to be fixed.
So as soon as they got there and fixed it then we have to release them of that violation because it no longer exists.
I think what Commissioner Basis saying is,
maybe we need to hire a subcontractor with an umbrella,
an attire and a cooler,
and have sit out there day after day with a note pad and a camera,
and let them know every day, every little thing they do, we're watching them.
Now, I don't have the money for that to pay that person.
It's cheaper than legal fees.
So I mean, you've got V and C on here.
Request consideration for a moratorium,
or request consideration for outside council.
Oh, I, if I may.
Are you done?
I'm sorry.
So first question, and I think you touched on that.
We're obviously up there red tagging,
but they're fixing it quickly and moving on.
I guess they're fixing it to our standards
that we're removing the red tag.
And I don't know if you know
or maybe Commissioner Dave's nose or something is.
It's just curious because we just had this discussion
about roads and that was my point
if someone goes out and the roads are all paved
and they assume county ends of roads.
I'm assuming these people were told something
not accurate because they literally were moving
two dirt roads that are not paved. So, the developer that's not a developer, that's what I call them,
lied to all these poor people. I want to be part of a solution to stop the madness. I was just curious,
though, do these individual people, do you know if they have lawsuits going? Because you're saying they're
cutting down their trees, they're on their property, they've lied to them, are there active lawsuits with
individual homeowners I mean are they are they pursuing that I don't know so
it's quite late and I don't know if you have any good solutions to stop
the madness and I know you're saying all the elected officials in a room
only one commissioner by agencies agencies but I mean it could be a publicly
advertised. Not a good idea. Okay.
Do you want to elaborate?
Yeah. Okay. Did you have any solutions? I didn't have any.
I don't. We're pursuing every leave though.
The. A reaction that we have so I know we had at one point over 90 violations on.
One office of our building and then we had another 30 violations in a different office.
So it is not a lack of pursuing this, and a lack of violations, and we've issued at least
120 within the last 60 days that they fix it and move on.
So I'm not done yet.
I did.
So just to throw it out there, I knew some of this probably isn't popular, their conversation,
and maybe Madam Attorney could help.
But only because commissioner base had said, you know, cheaper than legal fees, I want us as a county.
If we can stop the madness to stop it, I might be missing where we would be on the hook for legal fees.
That's why I asked if the homeowners are suing.
Maybe I'm missing something where the county's deficient.
I think that we as a commissioner we might want to be careful about some of that the our words
Just so that they don't they don't come back and invite us
So that might be why the
Commissioner Davis said no she doesn't want to elaborate
I am curious though if this board is thinking I've said it twice about a moratorium. I don't know if it was
I've said the word moratorium twice and if that is something this board is leaning towards
today and there is a motion for that I will support that only if it's new permits as of
today. If there is a house with a construction loan and interest in all that I would not
I want to put that additional burden on somebody.
But like she said, you have a choice of put it
in a more touring, you don't know.
I'm going to garner my words.
Don't know how that would go.
You could pay for somebody to be there for the county
and to just keep gigantum.
But this person, like she said, is how many different LLCs?
11.
This is a shell game.
This is a, these are grifters that are, that they know the game and they have really,
we keep saying, we're not responsible for this, we can only do so much, but the perception is,
oh no, these are our roads, we need to fix them.
So, I am at a loss as to what to do, but if this is one of the options, I will support it.
Are we legally allowed to do a moratorium on permits moving forward?
You are legally allowed to do a moratorium under the proper circumstances.
Which would be?
Well, you would have to make a determination.
Public safety?
No.
You are able to do a moratorium and the courts look at a test as to whether or not you can have a
have a moratorium. And it's basically, if I can summarize it, you have to be undertaking
a new regulation, a new law, a new project, or something that you feel that the current
state of affairs is going to conflict with what you intend to do while you do it. So that's
Just like when you're implementing a concurrency scheme, you can stop allowing development for the period of time while you pass your rules and regulations implementing concurrency.
So you have to have an idea of what it is you're going to do, and then you can stop the behavior which would be contrary to where you're trying to get.
So you would have to, in order to do a moratorium in this regard, you would have to say what it is you intend to do and how what's going on now is contrary to what you intend to do and you would have to limited to a very specific time and you would have to implement whatever it is you want to do by the end of the time period.
If you don't do it correctly and very limited, then you are subject to a take-ins analysis
by the court.
Basically, you have taken their ability to utilize their property for whatever period of time.
So the answer is, yes, you can do a moratorium.
You just have to craft it properly, and I don't know what your intention is that you want to do.
If there was ever a case, if there was ever a case that we need the course to decide
on something, I think this is the case.
That is my personal opinion as a commissioner, but if there was ever a situation that we
needed a judge to say, this is my ruling, it would be this situation.
And my fear is that the judge would not agree with what you want to do, but I'm with you if you all want a judge to decide where
Always have that fear, but if there was ever a case, we need a judge to say, to rule on something. To me, it would be this situation.
Madam, could the thing that we're trying to accomplish be, because if the county gets involved and the good people out in IV4 want to MSVU and the county to take the roads and the storm water, that would be what we're trying to accomplish.
if they keep building where we need drainage and stormwater control or DRA is, that interferes
with how we're trying to move forward. Would that not be plausible?
If, absolutely, that would absolutely be plausible. However, what we're hearing is the cost
to do the MSBU is making the MSBU prohibitive. So if you're going to tell someone, they can't
use their property for whatever period of time, six months, eight months, a year, three
years until you get roads built. That's a significant amount of time to tell someone they
can't use their real property. So the longer out you are, the less likely the courts are
going to support what you're doing. But I'm, you know, at the end of the day, if you don't have
road. I'd say you're going to have, you're going to be subject to some problems for telling
them they couldn't have used their property for six months or a year. But I'm happy to
let y'all do the moratorium. I'll draft it up. Or if y'all want another lawyer to tell you about
it, I'm good with all of that. May I? Commissioner Davis. So B and C were a little bit intertwined
is to do the moratorium, but also get outside council to help us with this just to get a second opinion.
We do second opinions all the time.
So, seems to me like we ought to do that, and then I would really like to do the meeting of the agencies.
The meeting of the agencies is fine.
I don't know.
You all probably haven't seen the letter that we got from Swiftm,
or know you have seen the letter that we got from Swiftmud in response to Mr.
easements, questions to SwiftMud. SwiftMud is not pleased by the tone of their letter with,
I mean, they're blaming us in the letter for not taking action. I would say that I know
that they watch our meetings also. So the more times we talk about things and so forth,
just know that people are watching and they're taking in what we say at these meetings. I'm happy
to sit down with any agency, with any lawyers to talk about any of this, at any time, absolute
math finish.
I wanted to cut you off a long time ago.
I really did, because I think that you are giving your tipping your hand more than any
of us, because people are watching.
I can't, so I'm not supposed to answer the commissioner's question.
I'm just saying.
It's the answer just the question, and don't elaborate that you think we wouldn't win
in court or whatever, you know, what you said earlier.
Go ahead.
I think I have to tell you what I believe your risks are.
You have done that a lot.
You have done that.
This is the first time I've done it in the public meeting.
No, we've taught when I first said more to you.
Okay.
You and I had a conversation.
I disagree with you but go ahead.
I'm happy for y'all to hire outside council to deal with this issue.
I didn't say anything about outside council.
I said more to orient.
I'm happy for y'all to craft a more to orient.
But I need to know what you all want the more to orient to be.
I want to hear what you were trying to tell us.
And I feel like you cut it short.
You said you were going to work.
You were happy to...
Oh, I'm happy.
I miss your babies.
Yes.
And I'm happy to sit down with any other attorneys, other agencies, I'm happy at any time
to do that.
So, to Commissioner Davis's question, absolutely, I'll be doing that or we can have, you
know, staff there too.
I mean, I don't know what happened when you went out with State Attorney.
I didn't know you had completed that, but I've been out of town, so we haven't caught up
on that.
So I'm happy to do any of that.
And I'm happy to draft a moratorium.
I just need to know direction from y'all what you want the moratorium to be. I'm also happy to
Contact lawyers to get outside council. I just need y'all to tell me what opinions you want from them
I'm happy to do any of that.
I'll take a crack at
it. I think that we
neighbors give one I'd like to go to outside council. I would like them to review this
From a level of how we acquired this position, the person that acquired the property and has 11 different entities, and he's changing them around and moving the ball, and he's able to go out and move dirt, do things that are basically against our rules and regulations.
What I want is I want something that definitively puts it out there that stops this
impact that we have with Swift Mud, either we can get on the same page or we're going
to find out the differences.
But the time is up.
The ball has moved and I don't want to hear that either we're at fault, we're not at fault.
We've been talking about this for years, years, and it's time.
Let's just move the needle, let's go to neighbors and give them, let's get an outside resource
that will tell us what our role, what our responsibility is, if we have any, and if Swift
Mud has any or let them look at this developer and tell us what options we have, but we keep
I'm dragging this can along and I'm just I want some answers and I want to move on
We're told it's a hundred thousand dollars or some of the some weird number to pay roads and do everything that we need to do or told
But we can't keep up with the
Things that are going on in the subdivision. It's just too much. It's just time. I
want outside council. I want to get this reviewed and
Close the books on it
one way or the other.
Mr. Davis?
I agree.
But do you also want to do a moratorium on building?
Because they continue to build on the low lots.
And it's going to get more and more expensive to fix it.
No, I've done my own research on that.
As much as I would like to say, a moratorium.
I would tell you, be careful of what you want.
So I say, let's get outside council.
If outside council tells us, you know,
I think we can do that in pretty quick order.
They could tell us you can either accomplish this or you can't.
And then we can put the moratorium in, but I don't think putting the moratorium on right now.
I don't think that we can come up with a measure that meets the test standard to get us where we want to go.
For the record, I didn't come in here with the actual, yeah, your name on one of the discussion is what I wanted.
I like action.
May I?
Mr. Finningham, if swift, if swift mud is not responsible for the roads and we're not responsible for the roads
But we both have an interest in it could our attorneys not talk I mean obviously
They're punting it back with a letter and saying why are you doing anything so could our attorneys not put their heads together and say
What direction do we go to it seems like?
We happen to in it and we're still at the same spot you've been speaking to swift muds
I didn't ask, I didn't make the request.
Yeah, I didn't make the request of Swift Mud.
Mr. Eastman spoke to Frank.
I wasn't partied at the conversation.
I didn't know the conversation was happening.
I didn't know anything.
I have a very good relationship with Elizabeth Fernandez
with Swift Mud.
And the she and I have talked many times about this.
But I wasn't part of the discussion
that led to her writing to us.
And at this point, and I was on vacation so I just got back and I don't know how to go forward
because there are so many inaccuracies in my opinion, in the letter and I would like to talk to her about it.
But I'm in a quandary now because this agenda item was here and I didn't make the call.
So I think that I can speak with her about this issue but I don't know if the well has been poisoned.
I don't know, but I would like to talk to her, and I could, but I mean, if you guys, I mean,
I don't see that anyone heard. Well, man.
Mr. Finnegan, are you done?
Yes.
To your point, that's why I'm suggesting putting all the agencies in the room.
And I have no animosity whatsoever towards whiff mud.
I just want to get this solved for the residents, so we can all get on to other issues.
And so it does need to involve FWC, DEP, State Attorney, Swift Mud, and us.
I take all the agencies.
I don't know who would be in the room.
I mean, if we're going to have, anyway.
Room full of attorneys signed me up.
I'd much rather be in a room full of attorneys than executive directors and people that have other agendas.
For the record I would be more or less blue or not silent because I would be worried about opening my mouth and in the term environment.
So in this hypothetical meeting, I would assume it would be you.
This is just that she wanted all attorneys.
What Howard and Miss Lynn?
I did other agencies?
I did mean our only attorneys.
I met from the other agencies.
as opposed to having to partner agency heads.
She wants the attorneys from those agencies not staff.
Is that possible?
I know that I can speak with the state attorney.
I know that I can speak with Ms. Fernandez.
I don't know the lawyers it.
I would say that all of those agencies don't live here.
I do, this is my district, and if there can be duct tape
to make sure that I don't open my mouth, but I want to hear the conversation and know
what the parameters are, so I understand what's happening, but if I'm overruled, if Mr.
Howard thinks that's a bad idea, if it ought to be just attorneys, then I will
see it to the group.
I think she was being, she was being halfway serious.
Yeah, I would be kidding, because she was saying she would rather deal with that.
I think that Mr. Eastman's question was filtered before it got to
to miss Hernandez just by the, you know, I don't know the response we got was just so inconsistent
with the request that was made.
Got it.
The mission is
no matter if you have this meeting, what is that, what resolution is there
at the end of that about knowing whether we have the right to stop this person, how is it
going to stop this person, what's the end game?
It's two separate issues.
He's threading the needle.
He is who?
Well, the collective they are threading the needle
of managing to work around all the various ages.
What is having this meeting going to stop him?
Because we can get all of them same room
and discuss where things might overlap,
or things might be able to be stopped,
or rectified or whatever.
It's worth a shot after this many years of dealing.
But in the meantime, while you're waiting for that meeting
to happen, he just keeps pulling more from it,
saying he's moving.
That's why I said, I would entertain a moratorium
with new permits only until we can have neighbors in Ghiblin,
or somebody say to us, this is what we, this is what,
this is our case.
So, I would like somebody, if you don't like that suggestion, somebody to give me another
suggestion, you gave, talk to neighbors and give, and Commissioner Davis said, let's
get them all in a room.
What does this, what would the board like to see us do?
What is your pleasure?
Because I've got two separate things going on, and there's only four of us.
My only desire is whatever you decide. I want answers. I don't, I'm tired of talk. I just want answers.
Are you going to be both?
So give me an answer.
Hence the attorneys in a room, we're not attorneys.
And we're talking about doing something that may, may help the future, may hurt potential property owners.
We don't know who else, or I don't know, maybe everyone else knows who owns the rest of
those lots.
And we have one commission, it doesn't think I'm more atrium is going to work or attorney
has some reservations about it.
So if commissioner Davis has a possible solution of getting brilliant legal minds together,
they know the law better than the four of us, that's for sure.
Right. And in the meantime, waiting for this meeting to happen, just curious when you say
moratorium? I mean, what's the time length you were tomorrow? No, no, no, moratorium has
done an end day, like how what's the time frame that you're looking? Until we get, I just think
we need to stop. You talk about talking. This, we need to stop this. Any new permits should
stop from today on and then if it go to neighbors in Ghiblin or go to to the different
agencies but in the meantime they're probably watching the meeting they're saying oh I
got two months let's tear down the trees let's move the dirt let's get make sure that
there's no area that it's built on that you that's all we're doing is talking that that's
why I'm just saying if someone put a motion on the table for a moratorium it would need
And then if it needed to be extended, I mean, I'm assuming something like that could be done, but you can't just say forever and ever a man because they're still property owners.
Could it could a more torturing going affect tomorrow?
No.
It can't.
Because I mean, it's got to come back before you.
There's got to be a resolution.
It's got to be drafted.
I'm sorry.
I bet you have your meeting.
Okay, so that's my idea.
I mean,
I would call them.
I mean, time frame of is at one month, six months a year.
Like, what I would say, I would say by the time we get them retained narrow the questions.
They do their res maybe three months.
I don't know. Maybe quicker.
Then, if I may, what I would suggest is that we draft the moratorium for the next meeting,
although you're done going to tell me that it can't go until the following meeting,
but anyway, and make it for whatever period of time it takes to get neighbors and
give ones answer back and that would give us time to have the agency meeting.
To try to bring this in for a landing.
because we can still vote, we can still vote the moratorium down.
I just think it's interesting that we're following the rules.
And it's a while, while West out there with this guy.
So I think this, you know, I'll do a support wishes,
but I think like what Commissioner Bay said enough talk.
Let's do something.
excuse me for one moment.
You're in charge of the shift?
Yes.
Madam attorney, did you have something to say?
If you want me to do draft the moratorium,
I just need to know what y'all want.
It needs to be based upon the county taking some kind of action
to change a rule, build something,
tear something down,
change a regulation.
and I mean, it needs to be something that you are doing.
So I just need you to tell me what you want it to say.
If that's what you want me to do.
Do you have any suggestions, such as environmental destruction,
wildlife destruction, tearing down trees on people's property
without permission?
Well, they're already not allowed to do that.
I mean, they're not allowed to do that.
So if they're not following the rules, why can we not wrap up more
touring around that for two months?
What is the law you were working on is strengthening the existing?
Because Eric had said they're slapping them because they're not allowed to do all these
things.
But we need to, if we're doing a more retirement, it has to be based on something that we're
trying to accomplish.
Could we set up a new law or tougher penalties for the existing ones that we have?
Unfortunately, code compliance is not the tool that I have experienced for members want it to be.
Code compliance is not a, like I felt like what Commissioner Bayes was saying.
She wanted to hire someone to sit out there to make them stop doing the things they're not supposed to do while they're doing it.
unfortunate, and I felt like that's what she was trying to get at.
Like, let's hire a person and have them sit out there.
What I was hearing from that was she wants somebody to immediately stop doing what they're not supposed to do.
Unfortunately, these are not criminal acts.
There is no police officer or anybody with authority that can go out there with a gun and say stop driving that tractor.
So it's a civil thing.
and, unfortunately, civil remedies are never immediate. They're never what you are
want them to be. So, when you say strength in it, I guess you could, yes, I guess I could
craft something that would say that we are increasing the penalties for clearing lots
without a permit.
That could be one thing. And we could go into the ordinance making process of changing that. I don't know exactly. I can't remember where it is. I think it might be in the LDC, but we could figure it out. Yes.
That would be a start.
Just curious, is there anything, because we had talked about how do we stop this from happening in other developments in the future that may be around dirt roads?
I go back to these people about a home on a dirt road and obviously rely to, they thought,
or they think that it's getting paved and it wasn't, do we, can we put anything in place
as a penalty to any sort of these developers, that's not developers, that are doing the same thing.
Like, if they're misleading in sales, can we come back and make that any sort of a law?
Well, there are already laws that say that you can't be fraudulent, you can't misrepresent things in the sale of real property, but none of the homeowners that I'm aware of, or at least, yes, that I'm aware of are actually suing them, the homeowners have come to you all to fix their problem.
There are remedies that they could have if they hired a lawyer and went after these people.
It's a common scheme that these people are perpetrating on the victims.
I don't know whether the state attorney believes that it's risen to a criminal level or not,
because I haven't talked to the state attorney.
But if it's not a crime, then those folks have civil remedies.
I don't know of any of them that have sued.
So there are already laws.
When I stepped back in, Commissioner Bay said she would like to say something.
And I have not been out there in probably three weeks.
So I don't know where they're at in their development.
The roads where there is no development.
Could we put a moratorium on that for stormwater drainage,
mitigation,
I know I'm stretching, but is there a way to, for that particular that we can
put a moratorium on for six months to figure out stormwater drainage,
environmental
permit issues,
getting back to what Commissioner Slayba was saying earlier, why don't you
Let us just craft something,
rather than discussing it.
Sure, on our hand.
The, the Mr. Davis.
The state attorney did say that if there's been an IMSA.
Are you sure you want to say all that?
Okay, I mean, I'm just, I
don't know what they say.
Can we, can we, can we move on?
I hope y'all see how hard this is.
I really do.
This is criminal behavior.
It's hypothetical criminal behavior.
Commissioner Davis, do you have a solution for us that you would like to see us move forward?
No, there's no motions here because you would have to bring the neighbors and give them contract back to you just want to consensus at this point.
It's up to y'all. If y'all want me to reach out to neighbor's Ghiblin, get a retainer agreement from them sign it and then bring it to you for ratification afterwards, then I can certainly do that similar to what the next item is.
I can do that with a time frame and immediate time frame for what for them to say they can do something.
Either they're going to do it. They find something or what they're doing.
We've talked about a lot of different things. We've talked about a more term.
we talked about our current violations, we talked about if it's even our responsibility, we talked
about the responsibility of the homeowners for a lawsuit, so I mean, I'm just like, we
we've possibly put it to on their behalf as we're the counties.
So what exactly are we asking them to do, it's just what I need for a vacation on?
My issue is,
I want to know, and again, I mean, I'm cautious about what I'm saying here.
I want to know what our rights are and what they're not and how we move forward.
We just keep bouncing in the ball and we're not getting anywhere, we keep talking about
this.
I mean, I don't know how many hours of time we take up all of us, staff us doing this and
then the homeowners are setting out there and I know they're tired of it.
I hope they all band together, go hire an attorney for criminal lawsuit, and maybe if we're
all in this together between them and us, maybe we get somewhere.
But I'm ready to get to figure out what we can and can't do and move forward.
To stop construction, stop the criminal activity.
Is that safe to say?
Stop.
Well, it feels like at the county we can just stop construction.
It seems like the homeowners would have to, you know,
if there's a criminal activity, they're the victims.
So, like we struck me from wrong Madame attorney,
we're not allowed to sue in their behalf.
They would have to do that because they're the actual victims.
We would need to know how we stop the this contractor
from moving forward.
That's the only thing I see that we're allowed to do.
Am I missing something?
Okay, thank you for saying that.
I do have a question.
Is it the not developer, not contractor pulling the permits in their name are the homeowners pulling these permits?
Both.
I think it's both.
I think the doctor and the land.
Okay.
Thank you.
Will you say that for open to public?
Save it for us.
Is that what I want to say?
I think it's sometimes both because sometimes the property owner, they're using the property
owner's name if there's a third party but I think sometimes also the contractor and the property
owner guy.
But I think there's two issues and this is what I need to know for neighbors given.
Do you want them to tell you what your rights and responsibilities are as to construction of the
streets, and let me finish as one question, or do you want them to only focus on how do we
make this stop while we put this MSBU together? Because ultimately putting the MSBU together,
I don't know if that's going to be your answer, because I don't know if that's going to be feasible.
I have said before that I thought that the MSBU, the price that we got was so high, it would not be something that some of these people could even afford.
And I do not feel comfortable saying to people, we're going to put an MSBU on and you're going to pay this much money.
I do not feel comfortable with it, so I don't, I think that would, that part would be a waste of money.
So if that's if, if, if, if there, but I'm only one vote, so maybe if it else is comfortable.
If more of you thought that then stopping the construction, it gets you nowhere
Because if the goal of stopping construction is to facilitate the construction of the roads,
and you don't intend to construct the roads, then what are you stopping construction for?
I'm sorry. Let me finish this.
This, they, they are, there is construction happening where's drainage, DRA needs to be.
And if we could stop that until maybe we figure out where the storm water system needs to be on the vacant land that we have access to now.
But he just keeps building, and we don't have areas where there are some lots, aren't there some homes being built on DRAs that we're looking at?
DRAs are only going to be relevant if roads are constructed.
I understand that, but it's just the cart before the horse and it's just this vicious cycle that we're on.
And if we don't stop something, how are we ever going to fix it?
I don't know.
I'll try to bring this in.
The point would be is to hit the pause button, Madam maternity.
So number one, the rights and responsibilities, et cetera,
as Commissioner Bay said, would be number one, point number two,
which is actually a little bit flipped.
The point number two should be the first thing that they work on
is figuring out a way that we can do that moratorium to hit the
basically to hit the pause button because I said I used the phrase earlier
if you're in a whole stop digging. This one really is bad. It's getting
deeper and deeper and deeper and we need a legal way to hit the pause button
so we can figure that out and it might make the associated parties a little bit more
associated roads and all of that.
I got it.
Are you going to be drafted or more draft you a moratorium and what are your rights and responsibilities?
Are you going to do any kind of motion in seconds so that we can?
Yes, so I make a motion that we direct our attorney to.
Is there already a motion?
Oh, good. You got it. Sorry. I couldn't see how the side of my head.
I shouldn't approve the county attorney to create a moratorium and to acquire outside
council, neighbors in Giblin to review and advise the county and when our rights and
responsibilities are. Actually, it was to have neighbors in Giblin advise us on the moratorium
as well as the rights and responsibilities.
So I'm not drafting a moratorium. I'm going to
neighbors given to advise on whether a moratorium is appropriate.
Yes, the moratorium is the other issue that we need to decide whether we want to just go ahead and do something now.
And we can always vote it down later, but at least get it in process. That would be a second motion.
So that's my motion.
Just neighbors in Ghiblin for now.
So we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Davis. This is our second.
I'll second I had to make it go away.
Thank you.
Is there any public comment on this motion?
Come here.
And if you ever me out at me again, Mr. Frank,
if there were four me out,
if there were four gentlemen up here,
you would not me out at me.
Yeah, I would.
Yeah, trust me, I would.
Children don't like to see their parents fighting.
Well, anyway, getting back to why I'm here, okay?
I've been in construction since I was 15.
I'm 81 years old. I stopped construction maybe 10 years ago.
No where in an entire country other than here in Florida,
do they build housing projects without building the roads?
And I don't understand why you turn around and still let people turn around
and build all these houses with dirt roads.
Why aren't they paved?
That's what's supposed to be.
The homeowner, when he buys the house,
assumes there's going to be a road there.
When I moved here, I assumed it was going to be roads
and found out no, they're not.
And not only were they not, they never will be.
But you're building houses all over the place.
You're building projects.
What is happening on 2, 485 and 491 where we're building this big project and are they putting roads in there or they're going to be dirt roads?
If you tell me you're putting dirt roads in, then I don't want to say what my thoughts would be.
You know, but you should be, you should have, as a January 1st, all projects will be,
we'll have a 25-year road and they will be inspected and you'll have an environmental protection
agency out there checking to make sure that you're not screwing up on the drainage, you know,
and just get it over with. I don't understand why you still want to build dirt roads.
And that's my two cents.
Thank you, sir.
Next speaker.
That was very good.
I have several concerns.
The issue that I have is that we're not compliant with SwiftMut.
There's no ERP in place, so this is a big issue.
Not only do we need retention areas, as you well are aware,
there's homes that are built and what may end up needing to be torn down to build a retention
pot because there's so much homes already built. We don't even know where they're going to be
putting anything down. What kind of roads we can have and so forth.
That's why it caused so much money. Miss Lynn made the comment, you know, that they can't stop permitting, you know, in the past, because you're not allowed to do that, but because you continue to give permits and they continue to build, that's why an MSBU is out of reach for a lot of us.
So, the county misfine again is also responsible because you continue to make the problem worse by doing that.
I don't know the answer, I'm not a lawyer.
I wish I did go to law school because this has become a real headache for me and for some other residents.
But something needs to be done.
And you're right, it is criminal, but like Mr. Frank, we assume we were going to get roads, we were told that it wouldn't cost us a lot of money.
But 80 to $100,000, really? That's ridiculous. That really is ridiculous.
I want to go back to G1 that you all kind of for our information.
You're really not addressing the fact that they need to be
compliant with SwiftMud, they need an ERP before they can build.
No where in that statement is that said, you know, I've been to SwiftMud meetings,
I've had discussions with Mr. Frank, and as a manufacturer, I'm going to call
him on the letter that they send you because I really don't understand the
And I do appreciate, I know how difficult it is for you because this is in something
that many of you were on the board at the time when all this mess was going on.
But someone needs to put a stop to this.
And I really don't have the solution.
I'm just, it's a big headache for all of us.
You know, not just for you.
And I do appreciate the time that you put in.
But Miss Lynn, you need to give us some guidance also.
You know, when we have meetings, you don't attend the meetings, so you don't even know what our concerns are.
Miss Lynn is not. Miss Lynn is this board's attorney.
No, I understand. But the board is also present, so they can guide the individual.
Thank you. Next speaker.
My name is Don Martin, and I do live in everyone else for.
Just seems like there's a lot of kicking the can down the road, but been to several meetings as always the same stuff.
I have, and some more residents, which is like some answers.
As to where we are on the roads.
I'm in the home, where we are on the roads, one way or the other.
When we came, when we came in January of 21, is when we bought our lot.
We go in this guy's rep, representative sales office, I ask him about the roads, when
the street is finished, then they will pay you the roads and put it in your taxes.
The homes that have the paved streets and that's, we're told that's phase one, okay?
I live in phase two, which when I walked out of that office, I took that guy out of his
word.
Well, I have a dummy, it was a lie.
So, but you guys, I'm sorry, the board needs to do whatever they need to do to stop
this builder tomorrow,
from coming to next road or clearing the next spot, to save the next
innocent home buyer that moves into Citrus County, because we come in on assuming, I mean,
almost 73 years old, I've raised up a handshake with you word. You take a person that's a word
at the word like the gas cells representative. But here we are today. You've been to several meetings.
It's a headache for everybody.
I mean, just give us some concrete answers one way there.
What's going to happen and life goes on. I mean, but they're again to save,
especially the people that have built their homes under certain of what might be the recess
upon later, the home might have to be torn down.
Well, as far as I know, I'm not on one of those lots, but it's just, I can imagine if I was
on one of those lots.
And it's just, you need to do everything and can to shut down Vanderbilt construction.
Thank you.
Next speaker, please.
Sir, can you fill out a green card?
When Martin, I also live in Edinburgh, Nashville, four.
The county knew this was all going on back in 17 and 18 because you were getting letters
from Swift Mud.
They were addressed to the county.
It's not like this just happened overnight.
You've known for two years, this guy's tearing up trees that drill LDC says he needs a permit
to take out.
You know that it's not something that we keep picking the can I agree with that
But you've known all this for two years. You knew back in January. I brought the LDC up with the cutting down the trees and I
Just don't understand everybody saying it just happened
Could you just bring it down a little bit and and just you're you're you're yelling and
Into the might apologize. I won't use this microphone comes back because on home gear and it's just pretty true. That's okay
None of us were on the board then do you you were on the board?
No, you were on the board when this just said 718 and 18 we were elected. You got letters from Swift mud 1718
1921 22. I've a stack this much. I showed them to Mr. Howard
I showed them to you at our personal meeting.
I have a stack, it went to the county,
it went to Randy Oliver, it went to,
and I can't help who past board is,
it's not like the county just stopped,
we got a new board, now we have a new county.
It's still responsible for the county.
So it's not like this, it's just started.
And as far as them coming out and checking what he's doing,
I didn't see anything on the attachment
where he stuck on a house at the present time
and dumping his concrete leftover into the ground.
It's all over the front yard.
If the county's out there every day,
they had to see that today.
I seen it coming in.
And I believe that's an ERP issue.
I believe that's an issue with your resources.
My resources, but nowhere on that attachment doesn't list that.
Lairn the listing homes on rejoice and I don't really think he's cut the whole street in yet.
And he moves dirt on a daily basis.
He'll move a pile here.
And if it wasn't for staying at 48 hours,
he's barren.
His concrete is construction material.
And I believe the county knows that too.
You come out there and you don't have basements and in redess four in the reach. So why is he building 20 feet?
15, 20 feet wide. 20 feet down in that wide. What's he doing? He's not putting infrastructure in.
Thank you. Is there anybody else that has something to say?
I know that you're coming from a place of frustration as
are most of your neighbors, but Dr. Kubitsha, you said, the county needs to do something,
the county needs to stop this. What about the homeowners that are pulling these permits?
You're putting all that on us, but I'm just saying, this is not a one-way street,
this is not. And you've been sitting there the whole time. We're trying to find solutions for you.
now we are the oldest ones up here today we were elected in November of 2020.
Okay, but I'm just saying you know pointing at us and saying you're the board you've done this you've
known that commissioner Bay said that this is not this has been going on forever we have been
two years you hear every time we bring something forward nope you can't do that nope you can't
That's why I have said three times, a moratorium.
So, we're trying, but coming up here and yelling,
recording us, like we're doing something wrong.
We're trying.
I don't know, I mean, you come up here and tell me,
what would you like to, what do you think weight should be done
to this non-developer?
And, and which still open to the public, is there anybody out there that hasn't spoken that would like to please serve?
Come speak, come to the microphone.
My name is David Littlefield, I live in the municipality floor.
I think that the board really needs to be working more with Swiss mud.
I realize that there's been bad feelings between the two boards in the past, but I think if you were working together
and all working towards the same goal, maybe something could be resolved.
Thank you.
I don't think that we, any of us here have any bad blood works with blood.
I really did.
I'm stuck in that.
Yes.
He's not here, but he's got some bad blood.
Yes.
Thank you, sir.
Anyone else?
You've already spoken as there's somebody else that would like to speak.
for you.
You've come up here already. Thank you. Okay. I'm going to close the public comment.
Nobody else is coming forward. I could talk to you after the meeting.
Can I share? Yeah.
I had so many thoughts.
One was, I'm actually a little bit shocked. I did not know this was going on for that many years.
truly that's eye-opening but something the last female speaker said. I don't know that they can
hear you. Something the last female speaker said made me curious maybe Eric could help with this.
She said they're whatever straight they haven't even cut the street yet.
So it's minus in that village there were no streets if I'm correct and that although we
we have the easement for that and that they don't have permission to even do that.
Is that correct?
And if so are we able to block our easements?
I think she said they're advertising on a particular street which they haven't cut in yet.
I think that's what she said, and unfortunately, as Swift Mud found, when Swift Mud went out there,
they are doing this covertly. I don't know how they're doing it covertly, but they're
cutting in these streets by the dark of night or stealthily or something, so that whenever any of
our inspectors are out there or whatever Swift Mud wasn't able to catch them doing it, we haven't
able to catch them doing it except now that we're doing more enforcement. The letter was written
in 2021. I don't know what letter the woman was speaking of, but the letter from Swift mud to us
with the violation was September 7th of 2021. It wasn't as long ago as 17 or 18.
But we can't, I mean it's kind of like the whole idea of this is a criminal. It's not like
the sheriff's department and we can, you know, haul them, you know, pick them out of their
back home or whatever they're using. I mean, if our people are out there, we can tell them
to stop, but we can't use self-help methods or anything like that. The only way we could stop them
is by going to court and getting the court to give us some kind of an injunction and then the
same problem Swift Mud has is who do you sue? Because they're like the show game.
And I would be willing to vote, because I know we have the motion, but before you did
open to the public, I thought I saw Eric pop up, and if you had anything that you
would need to offer, I just didn't want to miss out on any information before we did
the vote.
I don't want to end.
And this was originally plated in the 70s, I believe, or 1970s, so it's been around
a long time.
But we had just recently caught them in the act, clearing the property with the code enforcement.
And that process is playing out.
You have to notice a violation in 30 days to respond.
And then if they fix it, then it's resolved.
And if they don't fix it, then you said a special master hearing.
So it takes time.
It's not a...
You catch them in the act and it stops.
You can notify them that they're in violation
and then the clock begins.
And it could be several months before they get to a special master.
You know what this sounds like to me.
You know how squatters know the system.
And they squat in the home and they know they've got a year before they're going to be a year free rent until they have to go to the next place in squat.
This is very much what this sounds like.
This person knows the law better than most of us in this room and they know how far they can push it.
Until they go to the next new LLC and go on. So it's a difficult thing, but we do. We're going to move forward on this motion that we have today and hopefully we can get some answers. We've opened up to public comment. Is there any additional?
I just have one last thing.
I do.
Commissioner Davis.
Since I got yelled at, I think I need to be able to respond.
And I will keep it as brief as possible.
Frank, you're absolutely right.
It is the definition of insanity, but this is a 51 year old development.
And that's why we're in this pickle.
You don't have to worry about the new developments.
You, at several people, said it needs to be stopped tomorrow, the good news is, we're not
a banana republic in the United States, rules are here for a reason, it takes government
takes time.
Mr. Martin said it best when he said, nobody wants this headache and so you can see by my
expression and my reaction, I don't want this headache, this board doesn't want this
take trust me, I have spent so many hours on this in an increasing amount in the last two years.
Finally, this is a new board, the last board, and the prior administration basically said,
it's on them, it's buyers beware, we got nothing to do with it. Okay, so understand that I am
your commissioner, I represent you, and I have been working my tail off on this, so I don't
appreciate being yelled at for that effort, because I can just go, you know what? This is
buyer beware. You do wash my hands of it and I'm not doing it because I do care and I do
think you've been sold a bill of goods. So I'm doing well.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Baze,
a question since this all started back in the 30 or 70s. And
We
were not required to do roads, but now if we do roads, why are we under the standards,
current standards of swift mud, as opposed to ditch and swell because I think swift mud and their
requirements is what's making this project so much more expensive, but if it doesn't meet the
for what we do in present-day under the roads.
Why do we have to conform to the current requirements of swift men?
Anyone who's receiving a government permit has to comply with the regulations
that are in place at the time they're requesting the permit.
So, unfortunately, this development has set fallow for all these years, and the
permit would be applied for today, so we have to do current day standards.
I will say that when Phase I was done when Mr. Frank was here, he was able to work with
Swifma to get Swifma to agree to a lesser type of lesser system than was currently required.
in conversations with, I guess some of our folks have talked to some of
Swift mud folks and I don't know if there's that same attitude today to let
us do the lesser but I don't think we've ever asked and I think that might have
been along some of what Mr. Eastman was trying to accomplish but like I said I
think it got filtered unfortunately. So the reason is because it's being done
today.
So in addition to the motion on the floor, and I know you're supposed to have some
conversation, can we have that conversation with SwiftMud if we can find a less intensive
method for drainage and in
addition to that,
because of the bad actor building on all these
thoughts, can we at least send a letter and ask, are you willing to do something in
lieu of this? Or if we can't go that route, then find out if
if there's any legal
recourse to him for doing this? Send a letter to who's swith mud or the bad actor.
I would like to have conversation with Swiftman to find out if they would be amenable to a
lesser standard of drainage than what's currently required to try to bring the cost down.
I don't know if it's worth having the conversation with the bad actor to see if he's willing
to give up some land for this,
and if not, then can we have that conversation on a legal
basis to find out if we have any recourse for that?
So yes, we can talk to Swift Mud, but I believe earlier in your agenda, you approved a contract
for Burrell to do some additional studies to determine if you'll recall
the county engineer did the preliminary, and of course that seems to be the worst case scenario
and they've asked to hire Troy Burrell to do some more studies.
So that is being done to see if maybe we're estimating high and perhaps he can hold those
numbers in.
You guys did that already today.
So, I think that when you get that information, you'll be in a better position to approach
swift mud, because you'll know more about the topography, I think they said they're going
to do borings, or I know I heard a drone was going to do some mapping.
So I think you might be in a better position to bring that to swift mud to the engineers
at swift mud, not to the other folks at swift mud, and maybe they can help you.
So I agree.
I think we should approach with my, but I might suggest it might be better to wait until
we have that better information.
Then the second thing as to the bad actor, he and his lawyer are keenly following this
issue.
In fact, I know that our PIO got an email from them not too long ago, so they are following
And this, he has always offered to give some of his property at Fair Market value for drainage.
He's always offered that.
It's been from the very beginning.
Now, unfortunately, he probably doesn't own as many as he used to that might be the most
important ones.
And then my other question is, is, I mean, they do it.
I know they model water tables, what things, is there a way, some kind of a radar system
that we can fire over and and find these areas where they've actually buried this debris in the ground.
I don't know the answer to that, but I don't know that we have regulations that I don't know.
Are they allowed to bury debris? I don't. I don't even know if they're allowed.
They may be allowed to do that. I don't know. I don't think you can bury debris.
Trees or vegetate. I don't know. Does anybody know?
I can't speak to that on the spot, we have to go back and see what the regulations are.
Well,
aside from a moratorium, are we allowed to stop issuing permits tomorrow until we can have a moratorium put in place?
It's
the same thing.
I understand, but you're telling me a moratorium is going to take time.
I'm telling you, they are watching this and they don't care.
they're going to do whatever they want to do. And if we don't wrap this up in a bow, let him
bring him to the table. If he wants to sue us, good. Let's go to court. So in the past, Randy Oliver
issued a directive to staff not to issue any building permits. And I believe that was in place
for about three months.
During that time period, we got letters from the, we didn't get letters
from the quote unquote bad actor we got letters from the contractor who's out there.
We keep talking like there's only one person but there is a scheme of people and the contractor
had his lawyer write a letter and after about three months Randy re-lented and started
told the building official to start issuing but if the board knowing the risks involved
wants to tell the building department not to issue permits then the board can do that.
board is I hate to keep doing please I said I said that an hour go and yeah I said
an hour go that if there was ever a case that we needed the courts to decide it
was this so we have a motion the floor we have beat this to death we have a motion
by commissioner Davis a second by commissioner base we have public comment at this
I would like to call the question, please.
Nobody has anything else.
I'm begging you, please.
Can we vote on this?
Yes, I was just curious.
I was just curious if Commissioner Bays was going
to make another motion after this.
OK, let's get through this.
I want you to let's just do a consensus right now at this point.
I mean, what does everybody want to do at this point?
I don't want to throw something out there and retract it.
I mean, what do you feel like?
I mean, if the more a Tory I'm going to take a few months
we need a little time for the attorney and we want to not issue permits like we have already
done for a few months or you know wait for letters and then maybe we'll let maybe not. I mean
all that takes time so I mean I'd be okay with issuing no permits. Then I'll put that on the table
when you're done if you want or if you want to amend your motion. So it's like Swiftman has problems
issuing permits. So they don't issue permits. Well nobody's asked them to issue a permit.
I'm sorry, what?
Let's call the vote.
Do you want to amend it? No, it's up to motion.
Okay, so all in favor of the motion on the floor say aye.
Aye. Opposed say nay. Motion passes for zero.
I'd like to put a motion on the table that we stop. As of tomorrow morning we issue no permit.
for three months.
For Amber Nessville, it's four.
No new construction.
No new permits.
I have a motion by Commissioner Bays.
Did you second it?
I did.
Second by Commissioner Davis.
Is there any public comment on this new motion?
It's your chance to come up and talk and say what you want to say?
It's a new thing.
I mean we're here.
Let's just order pizza and let's just do it.
We've only been here since nine
on camera is very stressful. I have a severe migraine. First of all, I didn't mention that you all
were not here, so I don't know if you heard that or not. I do appreciate everything you all do,
but you have to understand our frustration just like yours. It's just that when repeatedly we've
been told, we can't hope permits, we can't do that. This has been going on now for two years,
had it stopped two years ago, maybe we didn't have to come up with 80 to 100,000, might have
been maybe 30 or 50, you know what I mean?
So the longer that this is delayed, the more expensive it is, I think you all agree with
that.
And I do appreciate what you're trying to do.
I just don't have an answer for you.
Madam Chair.
Thank you.
Would you all consider getting going together in your subdivision and getting your own legal,
So that we fight this together. I mean, there was a lie to you. We didn't.
Our hands are not. We didn't capture us for you.
They have been homeowners that have gone to legal console.
And unfortunately, we can't seem to get anyone in the wilderness to take the case.
So if you have someone who's willing to do that, give us a name.
Okay.
Thank you.
Bless you, Frank.
Thank you, Frank.
Anything anybody else?
Okay.
So we have a motion.
I'm going to close public comment.
The motion for by commissioner Bayes.
A second by commissioner Davis.
Is there any further board discussion?
I just a lord.
All in favor say aye.
Aye.
Opposed.
Say nay.
That passes for zero.
Thank you.
I hope that helps.
okay. I will give you a quarter if you can do your next agenda item in 25 words or less.
Am I allowed to pay a quarter to another commissioner? Is that?
Take it in a row.
Yes, I said this before. On the last time we voted on this that I wanted to
go see if Niko was worth my time to invest in going. I went in February. It was like being a
commissioner all over again and it is worth our time so I would like
permission to do so I'd make a motion that we approve item and to travel to
go for Holly Davis. I'll second that.
Is there any public comment on travel?
It's not fun, it's all work.
Seeing no public comment, is there any board discussion?
My only question is, is it fall within our individual travel budget?
We'll have to figure that out on the back side.
Clearly, if I end up in the red, then I understand that it's on me.
I will also further say that I am going to Washington, D.C. on personal travel on my own personal
time very soon. So, if anyone wants me to do anything while I'm in D.C. at Congress,
I'm hoping to get in with Congressman Bellaracca. So, let's stop now. And that's all my
own done.
So, the question was, is it this would come out of your travel budget?
okay.
Any other questions? As long as it falls within your travel
budget, it falls outside of it and you want to pick it up. I'll get with that.
I missed your fin again. Sorry about that. I couldn't quite hear
Mr. Bayes in the bathroom, but were you asking if this exceeds the travel budget?
Is that what you were saying? I didn't hear the answer either. That was going to be my
is that if we each have our own travel budget and if you travel outside of the state then you
have to get permission and I sent my only issues. If it falls within your budget I'm fine with
it and if it's over and you still want to go then it's on your dime. I would agree with that.
Commissioner Davis. Just to clarify the reason that this was a walk on and it was very
tight timing is that the early bird deadline passed last week and so we needed to just get
this approved because we have a special AR for out-of-state travel. I haven't had time
to get with staff and try to figure out where we are with the budget and et cetera et cetera
but I have been asked to speak there so I am going to be there. And as speaker they usually pick up the
Doug has a question in for them on that.
Okay. Thank you.
This is a worst case scenario in other words.
That was actually going to be my point if you're
Speaker, why is this an issue to pay?
So, and just respectfully, I mean, you're a grown commissioner.
You should choose your own.
But, you know, when we talk about travel,
I just worry if you're outside of your budget,
could you be at places where the travel
wasn't so much like out of state to be more of a benefit to, you know, the board.
So, you know, if it was in state travel, obviously you could do a lot more of that and
have a lot more education and benefit that that would be it, but I agree with Commissioner
Bayes, if, you know, I'm hoping if you're speaking, they should honor you and be as I said
last time on the last time this was voted on, I travel extensively over the years for fun
And for my own work, and I'm used to doing that, but mostly for my own work, and I don't do these as junkets.
I would only invest my time to go there if it is good for the county, and it is non-stop work the whole time.
Thank you.
So, if there's no further questions, all in favor say aye.
Opposed say nay, S is 4-0.
Thank you.
Congratulations. You get to travel.
I, too, I'm, I'm the next O, O, one. I think that I'm actually outside of my travel budget. I spend a lot of my own money on travel. I, I think it's ridiculous that we have to ask for permission to go to these conferences, but I am, because I do have a budget. Why do I have to ask for permission?
but that's something you have to figure out.
Because I am a grown, blank commissioner.
And but I, this was incorrect.
I actually am using my own points for the airfare
and my own points for the hotel.
I just was one, you need to get permission
to go outside of the state, so I need that permission
and the registration fee can come out of my travel budget.
So, I'm asking that I get approval of this, a motion to approve.
Thank you.
Second.
Thank you, Commissioner Bays.
Thank you, Commissioner Davis.
Is there any public comment on my travel?
Thank you.
Seeing none.
Is there any further board comment?
All in favor say aye.
Opposed.
Say nay.
That passes four zero.
Thank you.
Okay.
And where are we at?
We have one more item.
Madam Chairman, Madam Chairman, Madam Chairman, Madam Chairman.
I called you here on her.
Thank you.
I just am asking for a motion of vote to ratify my signature on the engagement letter with
Shots and Bowen to defend the county in the boat ramp lawsuit.
very good I am looking for a group P1 I am looking for a second that a motion from Commissioner
Davis looking for a second I will second that I was waiting for a very public comment
Seeing none, is there any further board comment?
All in favor, say aye.
Opposed, say nay.
And wait.
We have three o'clock right now.
And commissioners, just so you know, I've already emailed
neighbors, Giblin, and when I get that retainer letter, I'll sign it
and bring it to you just like we did here.
Thank you.
OK.
At this time, I have our final open to the public, Frank.
Got anything to say?
Final open to the public.
What a great job we're doing, how hard we work,
and that we care about you.
I actually enjoy coming in here with these things.
I actually enjoy you people and appreciate the effort that you put out.
And I do have one little thing that relates back to your zoning.
I remember hearing the man say, that's $100 fine.
And the board could turn around and say, the second fine is five hundred and a third
fine is a thousand, I mean you could, you know, penalize these people that don't comply
with different zoning problems, you know, just like they do it elsewhere, I mean, you know,
just a thought.
Thank you.
Any other public comment, I'm going to close that public portion of the
comments and our upcoming meetings are May 11 which will be a Thursday at 1 p.m. here.
May 23, 2023 at 1 p.m. in this room and that is a regular schedule to say meetings
and then a regular meeting June 6, 2023 at 1 p.m. right here in this room. We have upcoming work
We have a pay and class study workshop May 11, 10 a.m. I suggest on May 11 that we all pack our lunches and wear comfy clothes because it's going to be a long one.
And we have that's May 11 that 10 a.m. for the paying class study. Then we have a workshop for the airports.
Christopher and Amberness Tuesday June 6, 2023 at 9 a.m. in this room. We have a strategic planning
retreat, which I believe we have to reschedule because we're signed up for DC and you might
not have a quorum.
Did I say DC, Texas? I do not know where I'm going.
Okay, so July 19th, just put
that out 9 a.m. here in this room, then we have a preliminary budget hearing Wednesday
July 26, 2023, right here in this room, and it doesn't say the time because the governing
body of special library districts at 8.30 a.m. fire protections, special districts
at 8.45, and then the BOCC is 9 a.m. so we start at 8.30 on July 26, and then we have
tentative budget hearing September 7th, 2023 at 501 PM, right here in this room, and then the final budget hearing is Tuesday, September 26, 501 PM.
And I'm going to be public here, Chairman. Chairman, I think we need to get Commissioner Bases vote.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
is a four-o vote. And it is 736 and I am going to adjourn this meeting. Thank you and thank
you for your time, ladies. Thank you staff that stuff around.