[0:28] I
[0:58] for e
[1:55] can you guys hear me okay great welcome
tonight
[2:00] today is
the
[2:10] 8v
[2:16] EXC don't feel bad I just can't
[2:21] talk absolutely um we're gonna have a
pledge and prayer first to hold the
[2:25] meeting and then we'll do
introductions uh
[2:31] um so we asked Am Blake shead
us followed
[2:51] by United States of
[Music]
[2:57] America na
indivisible with liy and justice for all
[3:40] okay so I'll make a quick introduction
my left your right on the end is
[3:49] L
[3:52] myiss is Mike Blake I'm the chair of the
County Commission to my right is B
[3:58] cousins county commissioner and our
County
[4:02] cler
John John
[4:07] wer I didn't know if I was going to be
able to get it out or not like come on
[4:12] boys okay so uh first of all tonight um
for anyone that wants uh wants to make
[4:20] any comment there is a laptop in the
back we ask that you go uh if you
[4:25] haven't already uh sign into that stop
for comment that's we're going to uh
[4:32] pull from that list to hear public
comment tonight so we're a little bit
[4:36] more
organized
[4:40] um back by the back door
um I'm going to start out tonight
[4:49] basically by
reading
[4:53] uh oh basically just just a statement
that we are uh required read by law it
[5:02] will hopefully explain a few things as
some details in it
[5:08] ollowing
[5:12] open
com rules to that we get to that point
[5:18] uh and then we will answer questions
tonight we're not taking any action on
[5:23] this this is simply a public hearing um
the uh
[5:30] we'll will'll finish up the process and
this will be an action item on the
[5:45] regular number
one iron county is intending to increase
[5:50] the general fund property tax rate doll
amount of increase per year excuse me
[5:56] per year will be $1.2 million
the purpose of the proposed increase is
[6:01] due to the growing community and the
need to enhance and expand essential
[6:05] services to support the safety wellbeing
and quality of life for all residents
[6:11] first with our population steadily
increasing there is a greater demand for
[6:14] public service including law enforcement
and legal services second inflation has
[6:20] significantly impacted operational costs
across the board from Personnel to
[6:25] equipment and insurance the last time
Iron County did a tax increase the
[6:29] general CL was in
2003 in order to maintain and improve
[6:34] the quality of services we provide is
necessary to adjust this funding source
[6:40] the approximate percentage of increase
on County general fund tax rate is
[6:44] estimated
19.5% this is only on the county portion
[6:50] of property taxes in relation to
property taxes as a whole this is about
[6:56] two this is about a 2%
increase the tax on a personal residence
[7:01] valued at
$418,000 which is the the county average
[7:07] that's the median house price in iron
count would increase by
[7:14] $35.60 per year for
[7:20] $2.97 so uh we
[7:25] open first
[7:42] how dare you how dare you
[7:54] try now we havex public hearing tonight
we Friday night 6m
[8:02] hour was that on
purpose trying to sneak things
[8:07] by count
res your last how dare you because your
[8:13] last raise taxes negative impa on our
[8:23] school right
[8:26] before mail out
General being raised trying to
[8:34] sa
school students
[8:38] of traed the educational interest of our
students in school or not only prison
[8:48] but the excuse Haven had increase
years I've been retired for more than 10
[8:57] I don't get an increase at all I can't
even
[9:01] ask um and with the inflation mention
part
[9:07] cost I have to make adjustments in my
own
[9:11] sp so my question to you when are you
going to start living
[9:16] withs in this County
all over taxed
[9:22] overed and you guys are over spending
thank you
[9:29] [Applause]
[9:42] fr
[10:13] [Music]
[10:19] know
[10:30] and
[11:17] C
[11:29] now we got the sales tax increas only
been like six months and then we're back
[11:34] to
[11:39] this I'm G ask everybody to hold their
Applause both on either side oh listen
[11:45] to this is we I
[11:50] forgot all right
[11:55] so next but I I told you that I agre
that I would lay out the ground rules
[12:00] and I
forgot each speaker is limited to two
[12:04] minutes please don't repeat what others
have said please hold your applause on
[12:10] both sides until the end of public
comments uh what's to be said is to be
[12:16] directed to the commission without
attacks on other people's character
[12:20] those are the general rules that we have
for all our public hearings and those
[12:24] are the rules that I'm going to ask you
to follow
[12:26] to so moving on
[12:42] yes we're gonna so you can
[12:52] ask no we we'll do our best to answer
questions uh
[13:05] sometimes sometimes we write down
questions and hold them till the end and
[13:08] answer them but we'll do our best to
answer questions as we
[13:13] go also
[13:22] [Music]
[13:57] yeah so
in government we're only allowed to have
[14:01] so much money in savings can't ra taxes
so we have so much
[14:14] money we have
[14:21] enough yeah we try to
[14:30] but we try to stay that range not too
[14:35] high pretty close yeah some years we'll
we'll use some of our savings and some
[14:41] years We'll add to that savings we also
have a capital projects fund where we
[14:46] put money aside for big projects that
come up say one of the buildings Remodel
[14:52] and we'll have
[15:18] know
[15:51] fr
[16:17] no absolutely not and and well sure
there are programs through our H office
[16:27] treasur office un a to make their their
property tax payments their our
[16:34] programs uh to help that
[17:08] why
say we do everything we can to work for
[17:11] those cases there are programs that are
in
[17:15] place
[17:19] place the office is well
[17:32] now
[18:00] brother
[18:43] sometimes fix fix
[18:56] problem who's the next
[19:08] famously called
commissars remember
[19:14] that ever since I got up here and spoke
out against the
[19:18] jail I've been hassled by code
enforcement and pulled over excessive
[19:24] amount of times
[Music]
[19:29] I tell you what I don't like your rules
man because you guys forget about the
[19:36] Constitution people have a right to say
what they want to say it doesn't fall in
[19:41] line kissing your butts like I know you
want used to Dave I'm gonna ask you to
[19:48] sit down this doesn't have anything to
do with the first am right to say what
[19:52] the hell have a First Amendment right we
also this is a public meeting you're
[19:55] under the Constitution sir D no
if you don't get to make rules that
[20:01] violate the constitutional rights of
everybody in here I will call of course
[20:05] you
will of course you will because you are
[20:09] law enforcement why don't you call code
enforcement on me
[20:13] again huh da this is outside the
parameters of the public hearing I'm
[20:18] working on a federal lawsuit against
these folks you'll be served
[20:23] soon
awesome okay
[20:29] speaker is
Ed
[20:55] people home tax
[21:03] not almost 3% more now my retirement has
gone
[21:10] up I've been retired 41 years
[21:21] I'm kill us espe lot of been
retired amount of time
[21:36] so I'm confused I spent a lot of years
in the military serving this country and
[21:44] all
[Music]
[21:59] the next speaker
[22:10] is the question that I don't
[22:57] going
[23:21] [Music]
[23:24] this is a little
comp C clean up
[23:30] my so the way that so so first of all
Iron County collects the taxes only our
[23:37] portion of property tax is about 10%
rest of the school districts here City
[23:43] municipalities water
consy so the way that it works the IR
[23:48] county is a lot of a certain amount of
money through taxes so as propery values
[23:54] go up tax rates actually decrease so
even though the value else go the am
[24:04] count takes in is the
[24:12] [Music]
same I mean it's it's but basically as
[24:20] as hous vales of houses go which is
exponential property tax rates actually
[24:27] decrease which keeps us the same amount
of money
[24:31] coming when those property values go up
we don't get more money the only money
[24:37] that we get that comes in is on New
Growth and just for for instance our our
[24:44] Revenue increase in New Growth this year
is about
[24:49] $200,000 new grow that we that we get as
the
[24:54] account
um so
[24:59] that has that's I that covers roads that
covers law enforcement that covers coun
[25:11] AG that new grow we get that
$200,000 to just put that in perspective
[25:20] uh that would only hire one and a half
police that wouldn't buy a new piece
[25:27] ofip
[25:36] what's it's I mean it's
[25:46] just right so I actually have at the end
of this I figur there be questions on
[25:52] this I actually have a few slides to go
through after this to show the history
[25:56] of the tax rate and then what happens
when values change and how that affects
[26:03] taxes so I have
that the next speaker is Mrs
[26:28] my question
[27:07] why arees charged up front a high
portion to
[27:22] cover
[27:26] think respons
[27:46] yeah so unfortunately we can't charge
the higher tax rate for certain people
[27:52] or certain buildings but when they do
build a new building that is when we do
[27:57] get new
property tax that mik was referring to
[28:01] so like he said this year our new growth
was
[28:06] $145,000 in our general fund from new
properties being built and so they'll
[28:12] start paying property taxes but we can't
charge them extra in the first year they
[28:19] they pay the same property factur as
everyone
[28:23] else Char
tax char
[28:41] rules and the
count unless it's
[28:48] un does kind
of that
[28:51] happens cities and also appropriated
areas but then the other end we
[29:06] have you only been here years P
[29:12] more
to people
[29:17] build
and bu
[29:44] so you bring up a good point with
building permits so we do have building
[29:48] permit fees I mean there there are the
we can't charge an initial like moving
[29:55] moving in tax but there are building
uh those type of things and that really
[30:02] does help
offset that does bring Revenue into the
[30:07] county so that we're not so reliant on
just property tax property tax is one
[30:13] Revenue stream but we do get we do get
revenue for building perits um if we
[30:20] didn't we would we wouldn't be able to
function at all
[30:26] um there are so many different funds
there's there's certain parameters on
[30:31] different funds of where that money can
be
[30:34] spent um for instance you know there's a
certain of money that can only be spent
[30:40] on public sa whether it be fire or
police um there's a certain percentage
[30:45] of money that can only be spent for
assessing and
[30:50] collecting we do bring fees we bring in
recording fees we bring in uh building
[30:56] permit fees uh
without those things we wouldn't be able
[31:01] to function so the you know the increase
to property tax is is specific and I'll
[31:11] tell you where that money's
go specifically it's going to go uh so
[31:17] that we can give our employees that we
can continue to pay our employees and
[31:22] continue offer health
insurance that's where this increase is
[31:26] going incre is solely
[31:32] going we're looking at a very small cost
of
[31:35] Liv increase for employees this year
that's uh numerous percentage points
[31:42] below the national average for cost of
living but it's what we can
[31:48] afford our employees are citizens as
well without them the county doesn't run
[31:55] and if we don't pay them a living wage
and that's my point
[32:02] I'm of living Cedar City than it
[32:08] is Washington all these
other
[32:14] stes people have a lot of money and want
to relocate here it's increasing the
[32:19] cost of living people already live
here is there not some way we can
[32:25] require them
[32:43] the same property
tax they're adding exponentially to the
[32:49] demand upon the services and
infrastructure
[32:58] there's got to be some kind of equable
way to take care of the people
[33:04] as
family land ownership go back to
[33:09] 1971
[33:16] and started increasing recently
[33:28] e
[34:24] s
[34:52] possible
[35:26] what
[35:48] no I just you know we've I've been in
the commission coming up on eight
[35:54] years we've never discussed
the property tax increase honestly until
[36:01] last
year we've cut and cut and
[36:06] scried for the you know 2003 it's been
21 years since since there was an
[36:12] increase to this p uh the only reason
we're here tonight is because we're over
[36:18] a barrel but there is no more to come
with the growth with the growth of the
[36:23] county with our responsibility as
Government to to provide
[36:29] Services we we
[36:34] stretched there there is nowhere else
to so each of us Commissioners have
[36:41] duties in
County take
[36:46] department just for instance one of my
assignments is
[36:52] Defenders
[36:55] attorney Prov
and just just one example but they so
[37:02] busy that one of the judges said look
you need
[37:07] to you need to hire
another people and attor you know we
[37:20] p3,000 a year allow
to that attor have a lot of
[37:28] that's just one example is is with our
County growing we have to have
[37:36] expenses
graice
[37:41] gas I've ran r
[37:50] years interesting we had a contractor
call the other day and said hey you
[37:55] build a house person
our house
[37:59] 201 and I back records and on on
[38:07] almost, son just W up exactly exactly
[38:14] everything so when we have
Labor and we and we have excellent
[38:20] employees we we have
ra and and when we have
[38:27] have increased labor and materials you
have in the Count's business we bu I
[38:36] suppose this
[38:42] gentlem pick up I guess we could try
some but but I think Moz and I think
[38:49] Rocky Ridge I think some of these
companies that on that as their
[38:55] probably having something to about that
so um to buy a road Raider in our in our
[39:02] land in our road department is twice as
much
[39:07] asce so
um when I was
[39:28] run the county ands we can't
do and I don't welcome anybody in this
[39:33] room uh m m terms will be up in two
years I may run get I don't Mike's to
[39:40] Doone of my business but any of you guys
in this room are more than welcome to
[39:45] file and run as commission any one of
you fol because I'm telling you right
[39:50] now it's not this is this is the worst
part of I've uh I've been public service
[39:57] 14 years and until we started talking
about jail we've been many
[40:04] years
[40:17] never we have we the
Utah um they came out and gave we
[40:25] struggled to there was a
it's a little better now but there was a
[40:29] time that we really struggled with
keeping sh
[40:33] de and and we still struggle
with our jail staff to our jail and
[40:41] we're down right and because we're down
five employees we have find other
[40:46] employees fill shs
over and and
[40:51] so it was two years ago I think the
state of Utah raised the hyri patrol
[40:56] rate pay by $8 an hour what do you think
happened they did that every one of
[41:03] every one of our
deputies iron Washington County they
[41:08] want to be IR make an hour more what do
we do Washington county is also G for
[41:14] that same wage so we have lost quite a
few of our people to them so we're
[41:19] competing with all of these
inflationary factors we don't know what
[41:23] to do I mean we just don't know
um we we still have to get up every
[41:30] morning
while we have to chip every road every
[41:36] Road in this
count has to be seven years so you guys
[41:42] I'm sure a lot of you don't what that
is you put you put oil oil down you put
[41:48] chip down you put and that that saves
from wearing out if you don't do that
[41:53] the roads are going to fall apart and
it's extremely expensive
[41:59] and so and those chips are twice the
cost they used to be the oil twice the
[42:03] cost lab twice the cost and so we have
the same guys and now we have all
[42:12] these we have the same 20 guys that we
had 20 years
[42:17] ago so we're running the county we're
still running the county
[42:22] at5 I'm open for suggestions I don't
know what to do
[42:28] Services would you be will
[42:39] to
don't
[42:45] and we we took over the
fa and and that help the evance because
[42:52] they rant that that so perin was just
going to close it up didn't want to to
[42:58] put the money for for it and it was kind
of an odd situation because the
[43:04] fairgrounds was um peran it was the city
and then the county of course had the
[43:11] had the fair it's County Fair and and I
think it's important for the county to
[43:17] have a fair to come together we could
eliminate that um we took that over and
[43:24] it has been more money um to run the
fairgrounds because we're paying all the
[43:30] expenses but we went in and cleaned it
up and
[43:36] and my husband and I and others help do
those
[43:42] fences for free we every stick of that
was donated because I knew we didn't
[43:47] have the money to do that so all that
those fences and all the wheels and all
[43:53] of that were donated Frank Nick donated
all of that
[43:57] and we weld it for a month straight and
then put all of that up road department
[44:03] did come in and help
[44:09] us but I just think it's really
important to have a fair but if we can't
[44:14] afford to we
[44:25] won't plan
oh I think I think you're probably
[44:31] talking about planning or so it's just
been Willy Milly put together when when
[44:37] perin didn't have the Monies to to do
that and so it it's just been kind of
[44:43] thrown together so so we felt like it
was really important before we did any
[44:50] more uh projects on that or anything to
because there is money we have spent you
[44:57] know monies for from the tourism dollars
that we can spend on that not out of the
[45:03] general fund tourism dollars that we
have spend on that that that we've been
[45:08] able to do some
improvements and um so so that you know
[45:14] that's been a really good thing but but
we felt like we needed to back up and
[45:19] plan what what it's going to actually
look like we've never done that and so
[45:24] the county is going to do put out RFP to
be able to plan what a master plan on
[45:32] the fairgrounds what it would look like
not not in the next few years unless we
[45:37] have a big boom which I you know I would
love that
[45:42] but it's been really a fun project to
work on that but we like I said we've
[45:49] never used the
general couple other things I'd like to
[45:55] mention
[46:06] conru our senior center was a lot of
[46:21] in cont that buil dou of our
[46:48] street I'm not sure why we
[46:54] own I think
[47:00] but anyway we sold that building we
desperately needed more room for our
[47:04] road shop to work on their equipment
when they have to go down in the middle
[47:08] of the night their trucks are cold and
got II and and they have to
[47:15] come it's nice to have facility they
trucks C and so we built a new road
[47:24] building and we buil that bu
875,000 you bu
[47:34] that and that's how
[47:39] Department workers in the RO Department
the work in the count and
[47:48] we so those are just some examples
things we've done um we have beenal
[47:57] I equip whatever I can one of my ass is
flooding in the we'
[48:12] had
[48:19] decied remember that about 3:00
morning that channel
[48:42] ands
[48:46] and and we have aart we have we have a
fulltime
[48:51] operator we
hav years and we have
[49:00] so anyway we we have him work fulltime
cleaning channels so we don't know these
[49:06] are so they do
PR but it jump the bank on that
[49:21] subis they
[49:28] we didn't have
to we and so there's just lots of there
[49:34] lots of things you guys we have toay for
this count
[49:39] and buses you know that
[49:58] [Music]
[50:01] for this year
[50:31] my name's Robert comto I'm in the same
boat as a lot of these folks I'm just at
[50:36] the bottom my taxes gone 30 40% in two
years two years and California did watch
[50:42] in Implement an exitx which isn't fair
to me because I've spent literally at
[50:48] least
$100,000 so I'm supporting the community
[50:52] and I feel I feel your pain just like
just like you folks and and honestly you
[50:58] might not like this but I don't mind
this what I mind is the $229 we just got
[51:04] charged for the school board a couple
months ago and I thought it was unfair
[51:10] that they had students coming up and
saying we need a bigger gy we need a
[51:14] bigger dance well they're they're
students they want everything for free I
[51:18] want pre too they don't have I don't
think they should have a voice because
[51:23] they're not taxpayers but we're not
we're not I
[51:33] understand here's my here's my point
here's my
[51:38] point these folks all these folks here
do you look at your total tax bill you
[51:44] don't just say hey it only went up $2 no
we look at our total tax bill and mine's
[51:50] going up 2300 a year okay so I've gone
from 15 to close to 3,000
[51:57] so I'm not far behind you folks okay and
people not everybody from
[52:02] California is down I'm retired too I
want to fix
[52:07] thec and I'm I'm not getting more unless
my investments which they're going to
[52:13] grow with President Trump things are
going to get better under President
[52:16] Trump we were better off so I'm not down
on this one I'm just down on the two or
[52:23] three that we've had this year so
[52:36] we're going to catch up to you see in
California we have 2% every six
[52:42] month I'm telling you right now I st an
expensive house in California it won't
[52:46] be long before my taxes will surpass
what I was pay CN thank you for list let
[52:53] me we're good John Let's Get Back on TR
[52:58] Sten
stepen oh he's
[53:22] [Music]
[53:45] I moved here from
California I came up here every since
[53:56] so ridiculously
expensive that I came I did well years I
[54:04] did as St I bring in
[Music]
[54:08] 44,400 with my wife and I'm permanently
disabled I'm 69 years old my lifespan is
[54:15] very
Li and also I should take
[54:21] b as
well not drink
[54:28] and the announc I get so Security in my
retirement I apply for Discount the same
[54:36] told par I made $400 too
much at what point I have never had
[54:44] children my wife and I
work never had a single child and at the
[54:51] am and I
understand to support all children
[54:57] but there's a lot of things you
cut that
[55:02] aren't schools want more security it's
not stopping the
[55:06] shs what's going on with Society why are
we not looking these things didn't
[55:13] happen occasionally somebody in the next
town get cut the night that's it it's
[55:20] people that's
allow you can't reprimand you can't
[55:25] touch them verbally or physically and
now the Big C on TV is putting in
[55:31] isolation
rooms what are the school supposed to do
[55:35] how do you stop where are we failing as
a people if we become more and
[55:41] more technically Advanced and we're
regressing back
[55:47] to I don't understand that I also don't
understand why you guys can't see the
[55:54] people onit in they're going their
houses where they going to live be B
[55:59] us we keep wan to grow the city I know
GRE the ideology that he was going
[56:08] to gr with maximum potential Main Street
we don't have
[56:15] infrastructure where's the money going
to come from when they meet new
[56:18] sanitation where's the money going to
come from we may need more water we
[56:23] bought $30 million this last year
[56:28] a that has been gone
was years for the last 3 OD
[56:36] years people need to look at me control
our expansion people want to move here
[56:43] well then we need more jails we need
more police officers we don't have what
[56:49] we need right
now and you saw you have about one the
[56:56] jail I remember all four
rooms I would
[57:04] today when at the hospital this
AR about this meeting tonight why
[57:11] published if well probably
people well there was a notice mail to
[57:20] every property owner with their property
tax bill as well I think someone someone
[57:25] had a yellow paper when they brought up
yeah right there that was M with all
[57:30] property tax bills
okay
[57:35] I
[57:38] back because buy
T I have with took great job
[57:47] this
[57:50] $14,900 I have
expens I don't I can't reply for because
[57:57] I $400 too much where am I supposed to
turn I have
[58:02] to I can't just ask some else to
I'm you guys are asking this for
[58:11] 19
[58:18] inrease in the school
[58:27] easy you keep hearing about
shootings why are we not teaching
[58:33] children you can't spank a child you
can't repr that's
[58:43] what I am
[58:49] very okay okay thank you very much and
thank you for your time thank you sir
[58:54] okay then fin my
theol
[59:01] 61% the school get
61% okay my wife work to the school
[59:05] she's a school teacher for 25 years in
California our schools I'm sorry they're
[59:11] pathetic most of the kids are third
grade reading level I'm talking about
[59:16] high school and there is no discipline
they have what do they have coaches my
[59:22] wife has been taught self-defense
[59:27] self-defense not if but when a student
abuses her or attacks
[59:33] him
sorry schools are fail here
[59:40] in Mike ke
[1:00:15] so what is your market
[1:00:19] value okay so your tax increase will L
what that is that's that's
[1:00:27] your home
[1:00:34] [Music]
[1:00:53] is know
[1:01:20] that's the last one go
[1:01:23] the um
[1:01:28] I'll answer some
questions a couple questions on um
[1:01:35] property values going up and things I I
prepared a
[1:01:38] few slides to explain that that helps da
could you that
[1:01:47] slide is that I mean a lot of everyone
knows home values nearly doubled the
[1:01:53] last four or five years and so everyone
thinks or assumes oh my value is going
[1:01:59] way up I'm paying way more taxes where's
the money going lot people ask that so
[1:02:04] if you could go to the next slide this
shows the iron C so the general fund tax
[1:02:10] rate over the last 20 years so back to
2003 so every year the tax rate will
[1:02:17] change depending on if values go up or
down if values go up the tax rate goes
[1:02:23] down so if you look at the start which
was
[1:02:29] 2003 um the tax rate was coming down and
values were going up well when 2008 hit
[1:02:37] crash happened home values went down
right so that that increase you can see
[1:02:44] is right after 2008 you can see the tax
rate going back up because values were
[1:02:50] going down so and then
it abely
[1:02:57] oh I got some more slides
so yeah so so the last few years you can
[1:03:03] see the tax rates been going down down
down we're probably at record low tax
[1:03:07] rates right now because we're at record
high values
[1:03:12] clarify yeah this
is so if if there was a tax increase
[1:03:19] then the very last dot like say this
year with the tax increase then it would
[1:03:24] be a little bit higher than
what it is go to the next
[1:03:36] slide yes
[1:03:42] [Music]
yes the
[1:03:48] rate oh the dollar amounts okay not the
tax
[1:03:52] rate
okay okay
[1:03:56] this this will explain that too so yeah
the tax rate is going down so the
[1:04:00] struggle is it feels just a little bit
like Voodoo but there's it's like
[1:04:04] proportional there reverse proportional
things so Mrs we get there this but it
[1:04:10] is yeah okay so so this is the first of
three slides so we'll say this is year
[1:04:17] one in year one we have three homes in
this town so one's Valu at 100,000 one
[1:04:25] 110 ,000 and
120,000 so the total value is 330,000
[1:04:33] and this town needs $1,000 to operate
okay so to figure the tax rate you take
[1:04:39] the $1,000 that they need divided by the
total value in that P is 330,000 so the
[1:04:47] rate is
3% so each home you take the 100,000 on
[1:04:53] the first home Times by the tax
rate3 that house is going to pay
[1:04:59] $33 next home's going to pay
333 363 because it's valued at
[1:05:07] 120,000 and that makes up the total
th000 that goes to the city and now
[1:05:13] let's go to the next slide this let's go
to year two in year two let's say every
[1:05:19] home went up by 5% 5% increase look at
the tax rate it went down from3 to. 29
[1:05:28] so every home is still paying the same
amount of
[1:05:31] taxes same ,000 this town still gets
$1,000 and now let's go to year
[1:05:39] three okay this year values go up again
first two homes go up by 5% the third
[1:05:47] home goes up by
10% so the tax rate dropped from. 29 to.
[1:05:54] 27 now the first two homes they're
paying less money than they were the
[1:05:59] first year the first two years the third
home is paying more money because it
[1:06:06] went up by
10% but the average in increase in that
[1:06:11] town was about a 7% value
increase so since the first two
[1:06:18] homes went up by less than the average
increase now they're paying less than
[1:06:24] they did the year before for the town's
still getting the same th000 they're
[1:06:29] just getting more from this home and
less from those homes okay so remember
[1:06:35] that any questions right now
[1:07:11] so that would be the assessor office
they're the ones that value all the
[1:07:16] homes or businesses in the county okay
so they that change in value say your
[1:07:22] home was worth 300,000 three years ago
now it's worth
[1:07:27] 400,000 that varies on the market so
they would change that value the
[1:07:37] sessor if we're appreciating every year
um was there an error and did I overpay
[1:07:44] last year was I
[1:07:48] overvalued so I not sure what your value
was but you can check that with the
[1:07:53] assessor's office you
okay so I mean your value will
[1:08:16] change so so on your on your
home do you I mean it's everyone can
[1:08:23] contest their value we send out a notice
in July saying your value is 300,000
[1:08:29] this year if you think that's too high
you can appeal it we have a we hire a
[1:08:35] third party hearing officer that will
come in look at your home your evidence
[1:08:40] of why you think it's too high and then
they can lower that value so that's what
[1:08:44] you would have had to
[1:08:49] do
[1:08:53] okay okay I can speak that like before I
was the clerk I work in the reporter's
[1:08:57] office which works with the assessor's
office the assessor's office has the
[1:09:01] responsibility to Value each property
year about 55,000 Parcels I don't know
[1:09:05] how many structures when I was there was
41,000 um but there are like when you
[1:09:12] have your neighbor sell their homes
those get into the MLS the values get
[1:09:16] set and then what Mass raising is
different like if you a house you figure
[1:09:21] out what that house is worth right how
many kitchens how many whatever and um
[1:09:25] but then in Mass prais you have tax like
valuation areas so like if you live up
[1:09:31] by the C City Temple your value been way
right but if you live kind of where I
[1:09:38] live it
hasn't not quite in dog town but I my
[1:09:43] grandpa was born in dog town but but the
but but those areas they move and so
[1:09:48] there's not enough manpower to appraise
every property every year and
[1:09:53] commissioner pres is right about every
five years they revalue each property
[1:09:58] but then your property resides a
taxation area and so they fluctuate so
[1:10:03] that might have been part of it and then
the explanation I know that they did
[1:10:05] kind of change
their their approach this year they've
[1:10:11] spoken about that commission they're not
here to defend themselves that's talk
[1:10:15] about principles strokes but anyway
taxation
[1:10:31] so that's an interesting challenge
because yeah so the answer is maybe you
[1:10:38] know no
well I
[1:10:42] know you know commissioner C says
something I
[1:10:48] think and that is you know you want to
move here then close the door behind you
[1:10:52] and we've been seeing this gr for a long
time in high school uh and so you know
[1:10:58] my parents bought their home it was
41,000 I bought my first home that was
[1:11:02] 85,000 and then I sold it to my tenant
and it paid off both our houses I mean
[1:11:06] it's just silly it's like funny money at
some point but but that inflation like
[1:11:11] we have to respect property rights which
means they can people can come in if
[1:11:16] there's money coming from somewhere else
they can build and they can build it up
[1:11:20] and we are affected by increases values
yeah watch your watch your value really
[1:11:28] close when you get the notice the short
answer is yes you know I mean you want
[1:11:34] to have you want to make sure that you
are valued correctly and if you feel
[1:11:37] like you're not then there is that
process Equalization
[1:11:45] [Music]
[1:11:49] this okay so yeah you can see how the
change in value the the town is getting
[1:11:56] the same thousand but it shifts house to
house so every year the tax rate will
[1:12:02] change and the amount you pay to the
town is going to change depending on
[1:12:06] what your home does versus everyone
else's home next
[1:12:11] slide okay so looking at properties in
Iron County we have all of the homes and
[1:12:20] Commercial businesses that are assessed
by the Iron County Assessor office there
[1:12:25] are also properties like utility
companies the railroad mines sand and
[1:12:32] gravel BS that are assessed by the state
the airlines so they also all pay
[1:12:38] property taxes what's happened over the
last couple of years is their values
[1:12:44] haven't really changed or they've gone
down where our home values have gone way
[1:12:49] up so it's kind of hard to see but
looking at the second graph and this
[1:12:55] came directly from the state showing
Iron County the blue portion is
[1:13:01] Residential Properties and the orange
portion is personal properties which is
[1:13:06] assessed by the the local assessor's
office so this the gray and the yellow
[1:13:11] portions at the top are what are
assessed by the state so in
[1:13:17] 2014 there's a 12% and 3% between
utility companies and natural resources
[1:13:24] so 15 % they were paying
15% of the total taxes in Iron County
[1:13:31] now the
2024 they're only paying 6% of the total
[1:13:36] taxes in our County so what what that's
causing is a tax
[1:13:41] shift so there's not more money coming
in from taxes it's just that their
[1:13:48] values aren't going up like home values
so homeowners are paying more taxes and
[1:13:54] these business businesses that used to
pay 12 15% of the total taxes they're
[1:14:00] only paying 6% now so we're paying a lot
more they're paying a lot less and I
[1:14:06] thought yeah so the essentially assess
companies like Dominion Energy
[1:14:12] mcif all these companies the state
assesses we don't ass the values they
[1:14:19] do I don't know how to say this nice but
they figured out that they can hire a
[1:14:23] lot of attorneys
M obvious and they can try get their
[1:14:28] values down and and we have we have one
attorney in the county we pay hundreds
[1:14:34] of thousands of dollars to fight these
big corporations to try to keep their
[1:14:38] values where they should be but it's a
Conant ble losing that because it's a
[1:14:44] tax from from like say they used to pay
a lot of
[1:14:52] tax yeah so so
doesn't
[1:14:58] change the cost goes up because we got
make
[1:15:03] difference that's why I mean a lot of
you said I'm paying three four $500 more
[1:15:08] than it was three years ago this is a
lot of reason why you go to the next
[1:15:13] slide
[1:15:31] that would you come
[1:15:39] to a little out of control I'm Stephanie
and I just I just wanted to remind
[1:15:44] everyone there has been this enormous
shift of tax burden but as it's gone
[1:15:50] from these companies they're prob traed
companies they're the ones that we have
[1:15:53] our inv
so they're feeling a fiduciary
[1:15:57] responsibility to
us but yet we're ALS so we have to
[1:16:02] decide what we want to do I mean it
seems to me it's just it bees repeating
[1:16:09] that these are publicly traded companies
that many of we have
[1:16:14] any so they are powerful they have Lobby
and these attorneys that are able to
[1:16:21] sway the legisl the
legisl happen nationally but these are
[1:16:27] huge billion doll companies that we are
prob invested in so it's a fairly
[1:16:32] complex
issue those are the bad because if
[1:16:36] you're getting dividends or if you're
getting any typ of
[1:16:42] payment well
[1:16:48] in um tremendous you're all up and it's
these same companies who scking into to
[1:16:55] us on the backside but it's not it's not
a simple issue so I would just say well
[1:17:02] I to express this is not this this to me
is a I agree with you except it's a
[1:17:08] question of equity and that's what makes
me angry about this on behalf of myself
[1:17:12] and all taxpayers in the we have a
smaller voice so I would encourage us to
[1:17:17] reach out to our our state legislators
you know Senator
[1:17:21] Victor representative ship
representative Al and let them because
[1:17:25] what what's happening is they're getting
they're getting you know pressur from
[1:17:29] lobbies they are hired by being a
Pacific you know Rocky Mountain Power or
[1:17:33] Sky big companies and and we don't it
bothers me that we have
[1:17:40] less we've talked blue we've
talked we' met with the
[1:17:48] legisl many many times on this very
issue and
[1:17:55] difficult for them too because they they
you know they have lobbyists that that
[1:18:00] you know take those values down it's not
good for res by any but we have
[1:18:10] tried after
meting ouris so so just a look right
[1:18:16] here this shows the real property which
is you know homes and businesses here
[1:18:21] versus the centrally assessed the gr the
yellow you go back to say just
[1:18:28] 2014 we'll go all the way back home
values were at
[1:18:32] 2.4 billion and now they're at 7.5
billion utilities were at
[1:18:39] 384 billion and now they're at 418
billion so they've they've hardly gone
[1:18:44] up in value all our homes have gone way
up in value causing that big act shift
[1:18:51] so you know everyone's oh the school the
Count's getting more money well we're
[1:18:56] getting way more money from you but way
less money from them get the same amount
[1:19:00] of money you had a
question okay uh one more slide I
[1:19:07] believe this is just another graph kind
of showing since
[1:19:12] 2013 uh this is the T part of the tax
shift residential homes were 54% of the
[1:19:19] total taxes this is Statewide and now
this was in 2022
[1:19:25] they were paying 67% of the total taxes
so showing that shift a little more
[1:19:31] clearly we you go back one slide I don't
know if John's head's in the way butross
[1:19:36] the
bottom cross the bottom so in
[1:19:41] 2023 centrally assessed properties paid
$1,670 less that year in taxes just in
[1:19:50] that one year from the previous year so
that was up by by home
[1:19:57] owners yeah any questions on
that I
[1:20:12] would anything
else I time I I don't understand totally
[1:20:21] where there was a time where the state
imposed we have the certified rate if
[1:20:25] our values go up the break goes down
like the chart showed but there wasn't
[1:20:29] there was a 5year period and you can
correct me if I'm wrong but it was a
[1:20:33] 5year period where the state of Utah
imposed a I think it was a property tax
[1:20:37] of some kind for the was it for the
school I think it's the state ass State
[1:20:43] and they they they assessed a certain
rate and they did not do the centrally
[1:20:46] assist it was fixed for five years so
and I think in those five years when our
[1:20:51] home values really went up the state
didn't the that rate lower the rate and
[1:20:57] so that was part of the increase as well
so you look at the essentially assess sh
[1:21:01] and that state you know ship that that's
where a lot of I think the rates went up
[1:21:07] um you know but un so they yeah so they
froze their tax rate was like froze for
[1:21:13] five years so the tax rate stayed the
same but values were going way up so the
[1:21:19] tax rate should have went down so if
we're paying the same rate as we did
[1:21:24] last year year but our values went way
up we're going to pay way more money so
[1:21:27] the statement grow that rate for five
years is a small portion of your taxes
[1:21:32] but they did a lot more money from
that that ended like two years
[1:21:45] ago when we were doing the going through
the issues associated with the J I
[1:21:51] really hated I'm just buing my soul now
the idea more taxes to ja but I liked I
[1:21:58] I didn't like but I hated less the idea
of the sales ta and the reason I did is
[1:22:06] because it everyone shares that burden
it bothers me that we have more people
[1:22:11] living in our County we have people who
own homes and people who don't own homes
[1:22:17] and yet we are bearing the burden as
homeowners and property owners and
[1:22:22] business owners for everyone is there no
way to take part of this and allow
[1:22:29] everyone to Bear the burden as opposed
to just Property
[1:22:33] Owners well with the Jael funding it
turned out to be a sales tax increase of
[1:22:38] .3% but I know a gentleman right now
that is he he drives from Vegas he stops
[1:22:44] a Home Depot he buys two for sixes
concrete Nails what Center blocks and
[1:22:49] he's building his cabin in K County and
he's paying for our Jil
[1:22:54] okay yeah it's much better though so I'm
just wondering is there no way for us to
[1:23:00] allow people who are buying their stuff
at Home Dep to help us good point and so
[1:23:07] we do collect some sales tax there's a
limit like that rate can't be increased
[1:23:13] we do receive some increase in funding
for that every year that has allowed us
[1:23:19] not to do a tax increase for 20 years if
with without the sales tax we would have
[1:23:25] to do a tax increase every year for last
20 years you know so that is helping but
[1:23:32] with the inflation and our cost going up
so much last couple years it's been
[1:23:36] outpacing
that it's been when we did the jail um
[1:23:43] public
hearing it was
[1:23:47] brutal but we knew because we sat in
meetings and meetings and gone through
[1:23:53] the jail and and knew that that our jail
was
[1:23:57] full and and I was comfortable about
letting criminals go back out and and
[1:24:04] have another crime I I I don't know who
you know if others are comfortable with
[1:24:11] that but I never have been during that
public hearing we had a lot of people
[1:24:17] from California say oh well they incre
increase ours just a little bit each
[1:24:22] year to keep up with inflation
well I know why the Commissioners have
[1:24:28] not done that over the years it's
difficult it's hard that's why I didn't
[1:24:33] run again to tell you the
truth when I you get as old as I am and
[1:24:40] and you get yelled at that many times
for roads or whatever
[1:24:45] else it's
hard so you know the Commissioners over
[1:24:52] the years maybe they were afraid that
they wouldn't get
[1:24:55] reelected I you know and and that may be
the case if they raise taxes I wasn't
[1:25:03] worried about that I knew we needed to
jail and I know that we need to fiscally
[1:25:09] pay for what we need in our
count and if and if we get yelled at
[1:25:15] that's fine but we understand because we
set through meeting after meeting after
[1:25:20] meeting and understand the budget and
understand the need for the
[1:25:26] gel we had the oldest gel that is
operating and and it it was it was
[1:25:34] difficult when I had to re up for um py
commissioner it was before we had gone
[1:25:41] through the legislature and about that
sales
[1:25:44] tax
so it it's it's a hard job I'll tell you
[1:25:49] that and and four years of it at my age
has been
[1:25:54] has been
hard so to speak exactly but I was
[1:26:00] willing to do it because I know the
needs of the county and I love the
[1:26:05] county well we appreciate your service
your public hearing is kind
[1:26:10] of I
just just think I make one more quickly
[1:26:18] then
questions so when when we as a
[1:26:25] commission as a
[1:26:29] commission a
Department
[1:26:34] officials we sat down and crunched
numbers down to the dollar in every
[1:26:42] Department to determine what our very
basic needs were what do we need to keep
[1:26:50] flow this this isn't building in any p
it's not building in
[1:26:57] a we sat down and figured out know do we
do we do a 20% tax raise and we're like
[1:27:04] you know what we can get by with
19.5 but we can't get away with 19 I
[1:27:10] mean we spend hours and hours crunching
the numbers to see what our
[1:27:16] responsibilities are as far as services
to the
[1:27:20] community and and 19.5%
is what we have to have to continue
[1:27:26] services to the community there you know
we could have said hey let's do
[1:27:33] 40% we good to go that that's not Cas
we're
[1:27:38] 19.5% because that's what we
need to to keep our
[1:27:47] count if you sit through the budget
meetings that we have we literally go
[1:27:52] line by line in the county and it's like
you know what you guys came in $500
[1:27:59] under budget last year let's lower your
budget $500 try to or you went over $200
[1:28:07] let's raise your budget $300
year
[1:28:17] really just can't to say more everything
G up so I would never
[1:28:24] you know I would have never considered
it wasn't even a thought my mind we'
[1:28:29] have to raise taxes this is I'm going
into
[1:28:32] my as a commissioner until the last two
years this was a foreign conversation
[1:28:39] it's
not about but this year in our budget
[1:28:45] you know we've had requests we had over
30 Personnel
[1:28:51] requests from different departments
have
[1:29:03] this employes seven employees across the
county
[1:29:10] in
really and some of say half those
[1:29:15] employees come from Enterprise
[1:29:48] I'm going to
say yeah as commissioners
[1:29:55] we've been able to we've been able to
raise wages we've been able to keep our
[1:29:59] wages
competitive I don't know
[1:30:19] last talk about it
[1:30:27] this is up until very recently
[1:30:39] this it's more important to me not to
take an increase because increase to my
[1:30:46] salary affects everybody
[1:30:54] that's my
two have a couple more questions let's
[1:30:58] go right here m
[1:31:36] so remember we had saved up money but
that m not much some of that money was
[1:31:41] actually money that was Federal money
that was the the capital projects for
[1:31:46] that and
then Citi
[1:31:51] legisl representative ship
[1:31:59] HP which allow
[1:32:10] for we have asked and asked and asked
for from every different place the
[1:32:17] legisl they throw so much money for for
recreation and all those fun things
[1:32:24] but we bought
not1 from any of that so jails are
[1:32:29] interesting in that regard because there
is money that happens
[1:32:34] tail so with the federal inmates
remember they're house between
[1:32:41] conviction and sentenc and then the
states generally the ones that help us
[1:32:46] with our fa
[1:32:51] like no federal
[1:33:00] [Music]
[1:33:09] but this one
[1:33:14] this okay so truth and Taxation is is is
it's actually an extra requirement that
[1:33:21] wasn't there previously um when Luke
talked about the levy like are there are
[1:33:26] different levies on your tax bill when
you own property right and so and we are
[1:33:31] one of the the general fund and so that
general fund um is a fixed amount and
[1:33:36] the only way it can go up is through
that new growth that Luke explained um
[1:33:42] uh but when an entity wants to increase
that Levy which is what the
[1:33:48] Commissioners are working on now then
they required to go through this process
[1:33:53] it's put to a vote like that there are
bonds that are put to a vote or um like
[1:33:59] last year there was a group that was
going to force this on to the ballot
[1:34:02] before they we kind of change directions
and that's you can refer an action of a
[1:34:08] of an elect by any action that you know
a Board of Commissioners or a city
[1:34:13] council makes you can refer that to the
ballot um but there are you know
[1:34:17] guidelines for that but for this in this
in this instance there's no other method
[1:34:22] to get it on the ballot this is but
other than the public hearing and the
[1:34:26] consideration of your elected officials
this is representative there really is
[1:34:30] doesn't go
[1:34:34] that yeah is there somebody over I just
pull you come and talk the
[1:34:44] microphone we don't want to either
[1:34:56] [Music]
[1:35:14] so the the restaurant tax is so when you
go to a restaurant you pay an extra 1%
[1:35:20] sales tax that goes to a separate F it's
not part of this general fund it's its
[1:35:26] own separate
fund yeah for tourism that's mandated by
[1:35:31] the state so those that money is used
for recreation or tourism type
[1:35:39] [Music]
activities yes so the revenues it'll
[1:35:43] show the revenues coming in from that
sales tax and then the expenses of what
[1:35:47] that money
[1:35:54] no I mean you can you can always request
more information detail on that we can
[1:35:58] get you that and the television thing so
if any of you go by
[1:36:15] just yeah there's like 30 or 40
[1:36:39] we have so three pie recreational area
this County campgound Recreation Area so
[1:36:47] as we over the last several years we've
upgraded that area we've attracted
[1:36:52] different events
like the uh UT State High School
[1:36:57] Mountain Bike
championships we have another Regional
[1:37:00] Mike Bas those those events have
actually used over a million dollars
[1:37:06] into our
[1:37:10] economy all those things so so when we
pay you know when we upgrade those
[1:37:17] facilities actually well Sumer games
over a year ago we got new direct which
[1:37:48] [Music]
[1:37:51] has real quick
so we're having a meeting next week with
[1:37:57] the BLM in fact I talked to one of the
people at another meeting and and she
[1:38:03] said there may be funds available that
the county and bl can go in together
[1:38:09] because
[1:38:13] that the BLM the BLM
[1:38:33] we're we're looking at that
absolutely both those
[1:38:39] Recreation they're not count but but we
understand yeah we understand the impact
[1:38:45] on our roads because
[1:39:03] they have money they have M Recreation
stuff but I would
[1:39:26] [Music]
[1:39:44] let me explain what so
[1:39:48] you
so something that's really been a
[1:39:52] problem in the back in theot developers
go
[1:40:00] out they take a
road they take a road V and they Blade
[1:40:05] the shake brush they sell lots to people
and the developer run off to California
[1:40:10] with money okay and then everybody when
they started using that road would
[1:40:13] complain but the road is horrible and
and they say we want our road fix
[1:40:18] because it's County Road no we have to
we make developers bring roads to the
[1:40:22] road us see in subdivisions they have a
certain standard they they have to over
[1:40:26] excavate those RS about 3T they have to
bring in like a 3in minus gravel
[1:40:34] [Music]
[1:40:59] people well
you but anyway to finish my point if we
[1:41:05] took every Ro in the county and and paid
it for everybody we have to Triple taxes
[1:41:10] but but we require developers to do as
our standard and then we'll take them
[1:41:15] over we'll Cloud them snow and we'll
maintain those rules because we get we
[1:41:19] get funds from the state for to to
maintain those rules but if some devel
[1:41:23] like I'll give you an example Sunset
Canyon out by qua on the other side the
[1:41:28] developer came in there and he bled on
the dirt and he chips him dirt he didn't
[1:41:32] put any road base he didn't put any
gravel base and those RS were horrible
[1:41:37] and finally all the residents got
together out there and they put it they
[1:41:40] it cost we got a bid as a County uh and
we got several bids and we hired a
[1:41:46] company to come in and fix all the roads
and they they added about $20,000 to
[1:41:51] their tax bill to pay for the
[1:41:59] who was your developer who
[1:42:07] developed neighbors decid to through
those roads the way they should have
[1:42:11] been the first time then then we'll take
them over fix them and we'll maintain
[1:42:15] them but tell them it won't because it's
not fair it's not fair to put that that
[1:42:20] burden on everybody in the county the
Developers done in the first place
[1:42:24] because you paid a lower amount of money
for that law because those rules
[1:42:35] wer with
as way more
[1:42:42] money but that was back before now now
the county has them do that because it
[1:42:48] was such a huge problem all those years
ago now now when when they do their
[1:42:56] subdivision they have to bring those
roads up to County standards and then
[1:43:03] [Music]
[1:43:13] [Music]
[1:43:18] we there's a
[1:43:25] yes so they have a meeting
[1:43:39] every they're making improvements they
making improvements and it's very
[1:43:51] expensive well the roads that you come
in on that the big road that comes in
[1:43:57] front of
town yeah no the next one right in front
[1:44:03] yeah they they we chip sell that the
county chip sell that um and a few years
[1:44:11] ago when they put some improvements in
there and so all of the roads that you
[1:44:16] come out on our County Roads
that have
[1:44:25] [Music]
[1:44:32] the county gives you a lot of services I
mean ITA feel like it because your road
[1:44:38] is very good but we we help pay for when
you come in and use the swimming pool in
[1:44:45] here
or the your kids play baseball in here
[1:44:51] the parks if you come in
[1:44:55] the library we pay for the library
[1:45:40] we have law
[1:45:44] enforcement that's our biggest bud
[1:46:08] wednes no no it's
actually going out west no it's actually
[1:46:14] we're going to meet with the BLM over
another issue and we are going to talk
[1:46:18] to them about that but but I talked to
another uh
[1:46:23] one of the BLM employees the other day
and and she said she was
[1:46:30] looking if if they had
money a pot somewhere else that they
[1:46:35] could use for that
[1:46:54] [Music]
[1:47:08] I
[1:47:47] just want to say
thank appreciate that
[1:48:04] [Music]
[1:48:09] that
employe
[1:48:13] I cut this cut
that for ways to save money and that you
[1:48:21] guys are doing a great job you guys are
brugal you guys conservative that was a
[1:48:26] joke but you guys you have integrity to
I don't hear a
[1:48:44] comments years
[1:49:02] from
[1:49:09] stought impr there I paid most
improvs the rest of the taxers have to
[1:49:14] pay some El
[1:49:18] approved District
[1:49:23] those homeowners those
houses taxes they pay Now cover those
[1:49:36] cost great
[1:49:45] job we appreciate everybody come
out take these
[1:49:52] as we've met over the last year talking
about different
[1:49:57] issues uh we really have taken a lot of
uh a lot of the
[1:50:04] suggestions that we've gotten from you
guys we really do appreciate your your
[1:50:09] participation know that it's not
[1:50:13] convenient thank you for coming out
tonight um if there are more individual
[1:50:19] questions and stuff that come up um
[1:50:26] no honestly the clerk's office is kind
of Clearing House for that but but those
[1:50:34] concerns those questions and stuff that
come in the cl's office are disseminated
[1:50:37] us we'll
help and we'll help answer those
[1:50:41] questions
[1:50:46] [Music]
[1:50:53] yes
[1:51:01] ma' I know there used to be hot tties in
my
[1:51:06] childhood I think tonight's a good might
be
[1:51:11] good thank you very much for coming out
appreciate you just want to announce
[1:51:16] that it's not going to be voted on
[1:51:21] tonight so again um the vote on this
will be November 25th 10 A.M
[1:51:35] [Music]
[1:52:01] and another thing these meetings are
required to be in the evening after 6 o'
[1:52:06] 6 o'cl or later so that's state law we
have to do it in the evening um dur and
[1:52:12] it can't be during any other public
meetings so like pan has meetings on
[1:52:16] Thursday sear I think Wednesday en has
Tuesdays so we can do this meeting
[1:52:23] during those meetings and it has to be
in the evening so I mean Fridays and
[1:52:28] Monday nights this is kind of our only