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Good.

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It is now 1039. My name is Daniel Abarca. I am chair of the Public Works Committee. We have with us, legislator Smith,

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legislator Husky and vice chair Peyton. We will begin this morning with a public hearing to talk about term and supply contracts, a Jackson County.

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on I will welcome up anyone who would like to testify on or for or against term supply

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contracts, share any insight about term supply contracts.

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We ask you to state your name and the city you live in or any representative that organization

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that you have.

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So without further ado, if you'll join us, whoever wants to be first in this first chair, make

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sure the green lights on and then you can share your testimony.

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Good morning.

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My name is Matthew Harris.

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I'm the business manager.

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I'm not sure you're lights on there.

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Just it.

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Okay.

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Perfect.

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Thank you.

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Business manager for plumbers and gas fitters locally in Kansas City.

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So it was brought to my attention last week.

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We had one of our members call that there were some water lines being done by Parks and

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Rack.

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They didn't know it was Parks and Rack at the time.

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So one of my business agents went out to check the job and when they arrived on

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They found two gentlemen working in a ditch that was extremely unsafe.

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I've got the pictures of anybody who would like to see the picture of it.

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The young man is in over his head.

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The spoiled pile is entirely too close to the ditch.

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It's wet soil, which makes it even more dangerous.

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This seems to be a pervasive problem with Parks plus Rec,

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and having their texts do what they call basic plumbing work.

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Last year, we also had another issue out

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I think it was a juicomo. I think it was the old chair of the building where parks plus

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red had installed a water heater, a gas-fired water heater. They could not get the natural gas to stop leaking

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inside of occupied building so they eventually ripped it out and installed electric water heater.

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Not only did the county have to pay twice for a water heater, but there was also a time

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that was extremely dangerous to be inside the building. This has been a problem we've had with

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plus wreck for a long time, we've had negotiations where we've tried to get plumbers to come

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down there and do the work, and they seemed to always send these texts. These two young men

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that were in this ditch, I would like to know if they have their OSHA 30. I'd like to know if

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they've had any type of training and excavations, shoring, trenching, anything, because obviously

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if they have, they weren't following it. My guess is they probably have not had the training.

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And at any point in time this could end up being a news report of a body recovery instead of us just going out and finding something wrong.

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So, that's all I've got.

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Questions comments?

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I was going to ask to see the pictures and then just say, so, like, I've done your occasional lines of my house and I'm about that deep.

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I'm assuming we're not talking about, no sir.

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Something that's just on the surface.

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Can I approach? Absolutely. And we're putting the pictures now. So, sorry about the delay. It was

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a computer issue.

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So, that's some kind of mainway or something. Yeah, just from the diameter.

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Other examples, just a memory that kind of. The only other one that strikes me as being extremely

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dangerous would be the water here thing. I mean, you know, there's been a lot of natural gas

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explosions over the last five to ten years. And, you know, it's just lucky that enough people

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complaining about the natural gas smell that those are the only two instances that

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really stick out in my mind, but those are extremely serious safety issues.

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Any other questions comments?

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Nice to meet you.

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Thank you so much for being here.

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So I'm just trying to get perspective here.

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I understand, and from the pictures, it looks like it was an unsafe situation.

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But where do you draw the line between what parks plus rent can do with employees?

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And when they need to call in professionals?

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How do they determine that?

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Well, I think any time that you...

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We're dealing with plumbing issues and needs to be a licensed plumbing answer. You know, we go through five years of training in order to be able to achieve our journey of plumber's license for Kansas City Missouri.

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Not only is natural gas dangerous, but just the water in the building could be dangerous and the inhabitants if it's not done properly.

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Any sewage backup, that's a potential safety hazard for any inhabitants in the building.

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You know, if the water line's not installed properly, then next thing, you know, there's bacteria in the lines if it's not flushed.

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I believe any time that they're dealing with plumbing issues, that they need to have a license plumber on site.

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We carry a license for a reason.

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And we have a term agreement with the plummet union, or we have, we have a contract,

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a part-class reg, do they have a contract where they could unfound, no, they don't.

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We do not, but we do have a contract with the county.

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Okay, thank you.

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Other questions, comments, Mr. Harris, for these pictures, how did you come to find these

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individuals or what's the process it took to even know they were there.

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So typically when we when there's a job going on we have members all over the city traveling

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at different times and if if they don't recognize a name on the side of a van or on a side

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of a pickup truck they'll call us hey we see this works being done go out and check it out

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so we received a call from a member that is he noticed this work was being done called one

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of our agents their agents followed up with it and that's when we realized it was part

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works plus direct tech, so they're performing the work.

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And so it sounds like you had some folks from your local

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go and have a conversation with them.

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Do you know if they had a license at all for plumbing,

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do you know if they were certified in any particular way,

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any type of experience that they may have had to do this work?

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They couldn't produce any documentation that showed

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that they were skilled to do the type of work that they were doing.

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Oh shit 10, no shit, nothing, okay, and any idea what the contractor was, who was, they were performing this work under, or is it one of the our employees that was doing it was, it was parts plus rectics. These are, okay, these were county employees,

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okay.

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Other questions and comments before we allow this individual to return.

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All right, thank you Mr. Harris.

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Anybody else want to testify or talk about charm and supply contracts?

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It's a little different than what I initially imagined there.

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Kevin Gard, business manager for plaster and cement, Mason's local 518.

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As far as charm and supply contracts, we had one issue recently, not a safety issue, but we have a...

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And I know you guys use point systems, but we also have, and I'm going to speak for a lot of the locals around here.

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We have minority and women owned businesses that are registered into our apprenticeship program that go through all the training.

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So we have several contractors that could pull, or they could be on these termites ply contracts.

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So we'd like to see them use more.

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Mine would be geared directly towards that concrete side

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for curb and gutter.

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But we'd like to see them use more out

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in the Jackson County area.

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Mr. Guard, how long is your apprenticeship program?

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Or what does it take to get in there?

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What does it even mean?

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I guess to have some folks that there

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is an apprenticeship program.

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Our apprenticeship program is three years long

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and you can sign up when you're 17 years old

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and then you'll have to have so many work hours

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and also so many hours of schooling.

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And we'll also do OSHA 30, OSHA 10,

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any concrete ACI testing, which is American Concrete Institute

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testing, so they'll know what materials

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to use, what kind of mixes to use,

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and how your mix design's work in the city,

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because you, or I'm sorry, in the county,

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you guys have your own mix design.

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And so, we just, we'd like to see our contractors, at least, have a better chance of getting

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awarded some of these term and supply contracts, we all, and we all, we can get you the numbers,

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we have all of our minority and women, our minority and women on businesses plus our minority

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and women members, so we can get you all that information if you guys ever need it.

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so

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We have a whole jail made out of concrete. Is core one of your members or what's the process?

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So core would actually not be one of our members. It's going to be axiom, jade, and they're both our members.

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We did have some trouble on the jail. The detention center, I should call them, sorry.

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It has to travel on the attention center at the beginning, but that ended up getting worked

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out for us pretty early on and I won't speak for all the other trades because I think

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there was a lot of issues there with the way it was road up under prevailing wage, but as far

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as on-site we've been okay down there.

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So fair to say that apprenticeship programs create a quality, a level of quality certification

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Thank you, that others don't have or what is for a non, a non-member of yours, what are

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training methods or and that may be hard for you to answer because you're not affiliated

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with the unaffiliated folks, but what do you see in the field that we would know problems of work?

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Well, obviously ours is our training programs with the best.

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have been developed over 100 years on how to train and we are departmental labor registered.

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There are other trainings out there.

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So this doesn't make it a union or non-union issue.

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There are other training programs out there through other, I'm not going to name them, but

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there are other entities that do it.

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So if you're registered with a departmental labor, at least there's some curriculum and

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some somewhat of a standard.

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Now, ours is going to be a better standard

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just because most of their curriculum is going to be written

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off of the things that we've taught in the past.

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But so that's other questions, comments,

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thoughts, legislative Smith?

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So just, most recently at the end of December,

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we had a contract to term supply bid and request

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to a group contract for quality custom construction.

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It looks like we defeated that, so first question or quality, construction, quality, custom

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construction, sorry, part of your organization?

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No, they are not.

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And then the other Vaters, Genesis, Environmental, they part of your organization?

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Genesis is, yes.

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It looks like they, well, it's not totally easy and I'm not going to try to reconstruct

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and McConnell associates, they're not.

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Okay, so so those were the three bidders we put out do you have a perspective on why we only got those three back as respondents?

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I do not know. I didn't actually know that terms fly contract was out for bid.

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I don't know if it's going back out for bid again, but I have talked to a few other contractors that are

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well that are minority which that's not the end all be all, but that is a that is a help in the county

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and qualified and they have apprentices registered in our program.

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Maybe we can, I will have some of our directors here as well, and I'm sure probably

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Ms. Casement to it probably will come up and talk about some of that too if we need to help

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gather some folks up. Yeah, that's fine. Ms. Casement can come join us if you'd like.

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I love to have more competition on that. If you can give me your information, I'll make sure

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there. Your vendors could go in and register on bonfire. I promise it's very easy. It doesn't

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take much time and it's free. That will get them not only our beds, but their city can's a city,

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there's several other entities on there. They would get their beds. But please, always give me your

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information if you've got vendors that are interested. We'd be more than happy to make sure they get

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notified more competition we get, the better it is.

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Absolutely. So any time.

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All right. Thank you.

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I need to go ahead.

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I'll just make the comments. So it looks like the

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Genesis and McConnell failed on the RBO.

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Affidavid is just what I'm seeing in summer here. So that might explain why

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that.

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I spoke to Genesis about that and I don't like to fill it out.

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Even though I think they would on the RBO, I think they would have cleared

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that easily be in signatory members of ours.

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And I do understand what I'm doing.

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I just, I've read it.

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I'm mainly sharing with the group that that seemed

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to be the item on which the group that was recommended

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to us was above the other two.

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That's all, sir.

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Any other questions, comments or thoughts?

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All right.

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Thank you, Mr. Guard.

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Thank you.

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Any other folks who would like to testify?

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I'm Aaron Brown. I'm the business manager of the International.

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Unit of operating engineers, local 101, and just to tell you what that means, that's all the heavy equipment.

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And I basically just want to piggyback on what Mr. Harris said, whether they're union or not, what we see in those pictures.

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It's just a travesty to think that 221 year old men could be gone that quick. You look at that trench and it's from my line of work. You look at that and there's about 15 things wrong with it.

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And whether they're in the union, or they're not, or they're with a good contractor or not,

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I think all of us in this room have one thing in common,

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as we just want the safety for the people that are out there working on your parks and right.

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And we see that's one of the biggest, in our line of work,

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as long with Matt, that's one of the biggest safety things that's trench safety.

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That could just cave in and those guys would be buried alive.

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And I couldn't imagine a worse place to be,

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And the person that is not buried in there,

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he's responsible to guys out there by themselves

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that he's be responsible to try to dig his body out.

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That's what we see in those spoils.

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What do you tell them about the spoils?

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That's the big mound of dirt right next to it.

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That's supposed to be away from it.

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Basically, kind of the rule of thumb.

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And I'm a crane operator by trade,

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so I didn't do a whole lot of this.

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But even I can look at that picture,

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just like your guys' reactions say, wow, that's bad.

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But the rule of thumb is if you're going five or six foot down,

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you need to have it that much that wide too.

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But just to do it straight up and down, that's a bad way to do business.

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And we just want the safety, we don't want to hear about that either.

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All of our organizations, we don't want to hear about anybody getting hurt.

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And I think we've all reiterated and we've all been able to say that we do have these contractors

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that can do this safely.

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We've all been trained.

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We all go through these apprenticeships that are pretty rough to pass.

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So we do have an educated workforce for you guys.

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And we just basically want to come here today and just urge you to look for us.

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I think we have every qualification for the RBL language.

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We can fit into what you guys need.

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And ultimately what we want to do is have a partnership with you.

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We want to save work environment.

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We want to work with the county.

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And we want to continue.

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I know you guys use us a lot.

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We just want the opportunity to, you know, when these bids come out, they go to our contractors

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as well.

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So basically, I'm just saying what they said.

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How's that?

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00:17:30,870 --> 00:17:33,090
Any questions or comments from Mr. Brown?

242
00:17:34,450 --> 00:17:39,210
How long has it taken your apprenticeship program to operate a crane or have you machinery?

243
00:17:40,850 --> 00:17:49,970
So we go through a three year apprenticeship program that requires them to have, I think,

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it's around 1,500 hours a year to qualify to go to the next one with actual work out in the field.

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So there's a certification process. They have to get, they have to get cleared in each kind of

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pizza equipment. A crane operator will have to go and take a national test. It's basically like

247
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studying the phone book so they really know what they're having to do. So it's a rigorous training.

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I like to, in fact, I will brag on our people. They are trained. They are the best at what they do.

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That's what we represent as we have the best train, safest workforce that's out there.

250
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,700
You know, the questions come in, so thoughts, thank you, Mr. Brown. Thank you.

251
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,900
Anybody else want to come and testify?

252
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:49,900
I wonder if somebody would be willing to come up and explain the picture

253
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:58,540
and a note that was flagged, literally, about this red flag, preferably if there's anybody

254
00:18:58,540 --> 00:19:05,440
from my BW. Anyone want to come up and explain what that red flag is right there?

255
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,640
Blood flitter, Barca, could you push your mic up?

256
00:19:36,390 --> 00:19:40,030
So just to clarify, and we should have put them up there, my apologies.

257
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:48,730
So running a Jason to this trench is a little red flag right here, and it was explained to

258
00:19:48,730 --> 00:19:57,330
that that can be a conduit line, utility line, some other form of notice that is running

259
00:19:57,330 --> 00:19:58,990
adjacent to this open trench.

260
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When I had a conversation with head of the building and construction trades, Ralph Orpheza, he said that could be an uncase electrical line, lying right next to this open trench, where you're seeing people standing literally in water, digging with an excavator, parallel, a perpendicular to that line.

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So, just wanted to make sure that we had that as well, noticed here.

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00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:28,480
For the public sake, we have these images here.

263
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The legislators have them.

264
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,860
I have copies from my colleagues that we'll talk about as well there.

265
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,680
Before I move on, I want to make sure and close out any other final opportunities for folks

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00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:45,560
to talk about the impact of terms of supply contractors or the situation I guess.

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00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:48,100
All right, hearing none.

268
00:20:48,220 --> 00:20:49,740
We will now close the public hearing.

269
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,580
We'll move on to our regular agenda here.

270
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I will leave next. We have a resolution. Remember the number.

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Two one eight seven four.

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We will hold this unless there's anyone who has an objection to that.

273
00:21:08,360 --> 00:21:09,520
Seeing none.

274
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We'll continue.

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We have next.

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00:21:17,660 --> 00:21:23,320
Bringing up our directors of public works as well as parks and recreation to

277
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come and share about what's going on with this situation.

278
00:21:26,220 --> 00:21:29,980
and talk to us about some of the safety protocols.

279
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,000
Well, they make their way up there. Good morning, all.

280
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,140
Frank Gattie, a couple of works, Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen.

281
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,140
Happy to join you this morning, I think.

282
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,040
What Tina and Michelle join us here?

283
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Does anybody do yourselves?

284
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,420
Lower-Jose?

285
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:28,940
Okay, good morning.

286
00:22:29,540 --> 00:22:32,080
Michelle Newman, Director Jackson County Park's plus wreck.

287
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,660
with me today as Tina Spala, she is our superintendent of park operations.

288
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:46,000
I think I'll start off with the first situation that I apologize I don't remember the gentleman's name,

289
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:53,400
but that he was talking about in regards to what we considered a basic water leak.

290
00:22:54,560 --> 00:23:01,360
When the staff went to restore the water line at, excuse me, went to restore the water at the Longview Marina.

291
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:12,700
They noticed that water was bubbling up from the ground so they took pictures and then they immediately contacted their supervisor and they shut the water back off

292
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:26,340
Tyler Wells who was their supervisor submitted a dig right ticket and to locate any public underground lines because we wouldn't do anything until dig right came out and

293
00:23:26,340 --> 00:23:32,480
ultimately let us know, you know, what underground lines there might be. We also had an

294
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:38,560
in-house locator to ensure that there were no private lines, and we also used the in-house locator

295
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:46,020
to help us locate exactly where that leak was at, because if you're going to dig, you know, you

296
00:23:46,020 --> 00:23:52,160
don't want to dig over here when, you know, the leak is here, so that's what that locator helps us to do.

297
00:23:52,160 --> 00:24:05,440
So, dig right came out that day. They did all the markings off that might have been what the red flag was because they came out and, you know, flagged the area in which we could dig in.

298
00:24:05,660 --> 00:24:14,020
And I also want to let you know that the line that you were referring to Chairman was a fiber line, it wasn't an electrical line.

299
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,960
And again, that was all, like I say, cordoned off by dig right.

300
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:27,080
So, the park's plus wreck then began digging with a mini excavator around 130 and the afternoon.

301
00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:32,260
The job was not completed that day, so the staff secured the area.

302
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:33,520
I'm sure that it's pictures.

303
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,240
And once again, I don't have all the pictures.

304
00:24:37,180 --> 00:24:43,100
I was not given these pictures that went out to the public this morning.

305
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,080
I was not privileged to having any of these pictures.

306
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,800
So this is the first time I'm seeing them and I'm only seeing them this big.

307
00:24:50,580 --> 00:24:53,380
So anyway, I just want to let you know that, okay?

308
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,960
So the job started about...

309
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:27,980
130 in the afternoon, they began digging with the many excavator. Yes, our associates are trained on heavy equipment. When we hire them, I can tell you that these in particular individuals came with training on heavy equipment prior to us hiring them. And then once they come to the parks department, their supervisor. Also, there are many hours of training that go on each piece of heavy equipment.

310
00:25:28,580 --> 00:25:33,980
So, they knew how to use a mini excavator, and about 1-30 in the afternoon they began.

311
00:25:34,140 --> 00:25:38,040
The job was not completed that day, so staff secured the area.

312
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:46,660
They secured the area with the orange fencing that you see, and the T-post that you see in the photos that I was originally sent.

313
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:55,720
And what we also decided is that that would give an extra day to dry out anything that needed to be dried out because there was a lot of wind.

314
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:02,500
I think it was pretty warm and they thought that would give the opportunity to then drive the area out.

315
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:14,840
The next day which would have been March the 26th, staff continued assessing the area and the situation and defining the area of the leak.

316
00:26:15,580 --> 00:26:21,660
The staff determined it was a minor repair, it was a pin hole leak on the bottom of the pipe.

317
00:26:21,660 --> 00:26:25,840
They also determined what kind of patching was needed.

318
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,680
Now, I know that there's been talk about

319
00:26:30,860 --> 00:26:32,560
soaring, okay?

320
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:39,140
And so what staff related to me and Tina can speak to this

321
00:26:39,140 --> 00:26:41,260
was that there was not needed.

322
00:26:41,260 --> 00:26:43,100
There was no need for soaring,

323
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,340
as the trench was under five foot deep.

324
00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:49,180
Best practice typically is to use mechanical soaring

325
00:26:49,180 --> 00:26:52,420
for benching when the trench is five foot or deeper,

326
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,180
if mechanical shoring had been needed,

327
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,040
we would have contacted our term and supply

328
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,540
coming contractors.

329
00:27:00,180 --> 00:27:04,160
We use US engineering, we use Rand to complete the work

330
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:06,420
as per our standard accepted practice.

331
00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:10,160
We don't even have shoring materials within the department,

332
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,800
because if it is going to be higher than five feet,

333
00:27:15,260 --> 00:27:17,700
then they are to contract this out.

334
00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:22,320
And in terms of the environment being wet,

335
00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:25,260
it was not a very wet environment.

336
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,600
As I say, we gave it an extra day to dry.

337
00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:33,320
Even the pictures that were sent by the plumber's photographs

338
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:39,020
clearly show the ground and the top of the trench are pretty dry.

339
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,100
And the only place that's actually wet is right down there

340
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:45,460
where the pipe is, where there's actually

341
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,460
as you would expect it to be.

342
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,300
You know, working in these dry conditions

343
00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:54,320
was not some accident or a stroke of good luck,

344
00:27:54,660 --> 00:27:56,740
Park Associates intentionally waited that day

345
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after incoming uncovering the damaged pipe,

346
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,960
specifically to allow the ground to dry

347
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,160
in order to form safe repairs.

348
00:28:05,460 --> 00:28:06,500
They actually need to do this

349
00:28:06,500 --> 00:28:08,300
because they do have years of experience

350
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,000
and doing minor repairs throughout the park system.

351
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,680
I want to say at that point in time

352
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:23,960
While they were working on it, the plumbing representatives arrived without having contacted the director of the department.

353
00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:31,040
And as part of our MOU, it's specifically states in there that if they are coming to our property,

354
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:39,420
that they will show the courtesy of contacting the director of the department to let them know that they are coming on site.

355
00:28:39,420 --> 00:29:01,460
I was not contacted, they came on site and, ultimately, they were very cordial, okay, they were very cordial, but they did initially stop work and ask, you know, who the workers were on site, the rep stated that they felt like this was union work.

356
00:29:01,460 --> 00:29:08,480
They took pictures of sight as you've got these pictures today, so they were there for quite a while.

357
00:29:08,540 --> 00:29:14,140
In the meantime, our associates are contacting our deputy superintendent, and saying,

358
00:29:14,140 --> 00:29:20,140
you know, we have union representatives on this job, and he says, I'm on my way out right now.

359
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:27,140
They told the union representative that he was on his way out to talk with them.

360
00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:37,200
Now, if they had considered this an unsafe sight, where they felt as they testified today

361
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:44,960
that there was any type of impending tragedy, that is not how they acted at the sight.

362
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:52,960
In fact, they basically said, we are not going to stop your work or get in your way, you may continue working.

363
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:59,960
And here's to start business cards and just make sure that your representative, you know, your supervisor, gets our business.

364
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:29,980
Now, if they had thought this truly, as this last man spoke, that two people could have lost their lives, and they are on sight. They didn't call me. They didn't wait for the supervisor to get there. They didn't stop the job. They just simply said, we're not going to get in your way. You can continue working. I think that that lens credence to the fact that we did not have an

365
00:30:29,980 --> 00:30:35,820
unsafe sight out there. They just specifically felt like it should have been union work.

366
00:30:38,410 --> 00:30:48,190
So anyway, we began. Again, finishing the fix. It was a pretty easy fix. It just took

367
00:30:48,190 --> 00:30:55,170
a stainless steel sleeve to put around the pipe. We didn't put any new pipe in and it took

368
00:30:55,170 --> 00:30:58,790
the stainless steel sleeve, they, they, you know,

369
00:30:59,150 --> 00:31:01,870
and he also talked about the spoils, okay?

370
00:31:02,450 --> 00:31:07,450
The spoils were approximately three feet outside the hole

371
00:31:07,910 --> 00:31:11,390
where the major mound of the spoils were.

372
00:31:11,610 --> 00:31:16,670
I think it's important to note that most of this was clay.

373
00:31:17,130 --> 00:31:21,230
It was not dirt and clay is not prone to cave in,

374
00:31:21,470 --> 00:31:23,310
like saturated dirt is.

375
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:30,150
and they certainly felt like they had moved them out far enough to where they weren't

376
00:31:30,150 --> 00:31:35,090
going to have to worry about any type of cave in as the gentleman of spoke to.

377
00:31:35,370 --> 00:31:43,990
But at the same time, they were in a situation for that would be easier enough to backfill.

378
00:31:45,050 --> 00:31:52,890
Okay, so I also want to say that to my knowledge in the 40 years that I've been at the

379
00:31:52,890 --> 00:31:58,410
Department. There has been no loss of life. There has been no tragedy in that

380
00:31:58,410 --> 00:32:03,390
regard in terms of caveins. There certainly hasn't been in the 17 years that I

381
00:32:03,390 --> 00:32:10,150
have been director. We take safety very seriously. These folks are trained.

382
00:32:22,110 --> 00:32:22,870
They

383
00:32:22,870 --> 00:32:37,090
that we do within the department, we consider those minor repairs to the millions of dollars of infrastructure needs that we have at Jackson County Parks plus REC.

384
00:32:37,550 --> 00:32:49,150
If this would have been a sewer issue or septic tanks or anything in which we would need to call in a contractor, we would have.

385
00:32:49,150 --> 00:32:56,570
we have term and supply contractors. We call them in all of the time. That was not what they

386
00:32:56,570 --> 00:32:58,970
determined this situation to be.

387
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,820
And I also want to say that with the trade that we have in the

388
00:33:04,820 --> 00:33:11,740
Department, we have a very good working relationship with those BAs. We, you know, we follow the letter

389
00:33:11,740 --> 00:33:18,840
of the law. If you're a carpenter, we don't even allow you anyone in our department to hang a

390
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,460
picture on a wall, because that's claimed by the carpenters.

391
00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:26,260
So we are very good at following the letter of that MOU.

392
00:33:27,780 --> 00:33:33,660
And we believe that we did use Vesatei practices,

393
00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:37,820
and we don't believe that it was a situation where

394
00:33:37,820 --> 00:33:40,780
there was an impending tragedy, because if it had been,

395
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:45,260
we certainly would have expected a plumbers union representative

396
00:33:45,260 --> 00:33:51,300
to contact me as the director, stay there and wait until the deputy superintendent got there

397
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:55,580
or shut down the job. Thank you.

398
00:33:56,300 --> 00:33:56,640
Okay,

399
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:07,560
there was a lot said and nuanced. First of all, I think you now have copies of this, right?

400
00:34:08,580 --> 00:34:14,960
Right here. Perfect, making sure. And the photos as well behind it,

401
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:21,280
Right. The ones noted about me making them public as well.

402
00:34:21,860 --> 00:34:24,040
Mr. Newman, when did you ask for the additional photos?

403
00:34:25,220 --> 00:34:26,880
I didn't know there were additional photos.

404
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:29,960
When did you ask for additional photos if there were any?

405
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:36,900
I received an email from the union just as you did with a certain number of photos.

406
00:34:37,100 --> 00:34:41,400
Right. I thought that those were complete because they sent the email and said,

407
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:47,240
are attached photos to the job site. So I felt in good faith that they had sent me all the photos.

408
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:53,180
I did not know that I did not have all of the photos until a tweet went out this morning

409
00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:56,540
with had additional photos that we had not seen.

410
00:34:56,740 --> 00:34:59,980
To be clear, Mr. Newman, my tweets are...

411
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:09,480
My privilege of being elected to office. And whether or not, I just want you to know that. Please be clear, this is our commission's purview here.

412
00:35:12,620 --> 00:35:29,700
The reality about those tweets, it's the same public that the public saw them doing the work. When did you ask for additional photos if there were any? I didn't ask for additional. Thank you. I shouldn't have had to ask for additional photos. Let me be clear about this because I think this is the problem with all the directors under Mr. Clifford.

413
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:33,400
There is no oneness for us to do your job.

414
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:38,360
So please make sure that everyone understands that.

415
00:35:38,740 --> 00:35:41,420
Unfortunately, we find ourselves doing that a lot.

416
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:43,240
So let me go further.

417
00:35:45,650 --> 00:35:47,470
How many texts exist in Parks Department?

418
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:57,340
Well, if you're specifically talking about park ops, I would have to see if you knew

419
00:35:57,340 --> 00:35:57,820
that number.

420
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:04,160
Tina, there's approximately maybe 55, 60 folks in park operations.

421
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:10,120
operations. Now they're not all texts. Okay, but there I think that they would be approximately

422
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:15,620
that number in park operations. Okay, how many in public works? Do you have any texts

423
00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:16,040
in the sky?

424
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,480
We consider our associate's equipment operators.

425
00:36:23,970 --> 00:36:26,910
So no texts necessarily. We kind of

426
00:36:26,910 --> 00:36:31,630
we don't call them technicians. We don't call them equipment operators. Okay, thank you.

427
00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:42,350
And of those texts say 40 of them, but because I'm sure you have some admins who are technically texts that are within parks, how many of them have an OSHA 10 card?

428
00:36:44,890 --> 00:36:47,670
Sir, we do not know exactly how many have OSHA 10 cards.

429
00:36:48,590 --> 00:36:55,870
That's ironic, because as a part of OSHA 10, if you're working in construction, you're required to carry this card on you at all times.

430
00:36:56,570 --> 00:36:59,150
Those individuals who are working in that field didn't have this card.

431
00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:02,190
This is the basic safety training for all

432
00:37:03,510 --> 00:37:07,270
Construction shops the fact that they don't have OSHA 10 cards

433
00:37:07,930 --> 00:37:12,050
Makes me very very worried how many of them have OSHA 30 cards.

434
00:37:14,530 --> 00:37:16,410
I can't give you that number

435
00:37:17,290 --> 00:37:19,110
That's it also problem

436
00:37:19,110 --> 00:37:21,630
How many of you have a OSHA 10 card?

437
00:37:23,070 --> 00:37:28,570
Well, I don't have a OSHA in there. Then how would you know what proper training is or isn't for the standards?

438
00:37:29,250 --> 00:37:37,590
What I can say is that, and what I hope that everyone understands is that we work very

439
00:37:37,590 --> 00:37:43,870
much like every other parks and recreation department does within the greater metropolitan

440
00:37:43,870 --> 00:37:44,670
area.

441
00:37:45,070 --> 00:37:50,370
Whether you are lease on it, or blue springs, or the city in Kansas City, or Johnson County,

442
00:37:50,570 --> 00:37:55,970
or Independence, et cetera, in fact, I don't believe that they actually even have any

443
00:37:55,970 --> 00:38:11,650
trains as associates and they all do basic infrastructure work. Every single department, within the greater metropolitan area, does basic infrastructure work, which is what we do in the department.

444
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:17,770
If indeed, we feel that is anything other than basic infrastructure work.

445
00:38:17,770 --> 00:38:30,170
We will contact an outside contractor, a term and supply contractor, which we do continuously within the department and work with the outside contractor.

446
00:38:30,410 --> 00:38:33,470
We don't want there to ever be an unsafe situation.

447
00:38:35,810 --> 00:38:45,570
And so, or we can obviously contact Mr. Gaddy's folks in terms of, hey, can we borrow somebody?

448
00:38:45,570 --> 00:38:49,930
You know, can we, if that we don't actually have that trade within the department?

449
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:56,770
So I want you to know that we actually do work differently than most departments, because

450
00:38:56,770 --> 00:39:00,130
we do have carpenters and we do have painters within our department.

451
00:39:01,430 --> 00:39:07,590
But where we are exactly the same is that there's not, to my knowledge, and I will actually

452
00:39:07,590 --> 00:39:09,350
investigate it if you want me to.

453
00:39:09,370 --> 00:39:09,770
Please do.

454
00:39:09,770 --> 00:39:16,390
But to my knowledge, there is not another department that has trade associates within their

455
00:39:16,390 --> 00:39:21,770
department and they complete these routine jobs every single day.

456
00:39:23,190 --> 00:39:26,890
My clarification on that is to find out how many people have OSHA 10 and OSHA 30 cards.

457
00:39:27,070 --> 00:39:29,810
I could care less what we saw in our grantee or anybody else is doing.

458
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:35,390
So you said that these folks have a myriad of training, how much training and from where did

459
00:39:35,390 --> 00:39:37,330
these individuals have training from?

460
00:39:38,050 --> 00:39:43,170
Tina's follow-parks plus wreck the individuals that were working at the sidehead previous

461
00:39:43,170 --> 00:39:50,490
experience working in construction both of them were hired specifically because of their

462
00:39:50,490 --> 00:39:57,190
experience in construction and I do not know the exact years that they have behind their belts

463
00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:59,970
but, yes, in, yes, in.

464
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:06,280
The heavy equipment, but both of them were specifically hired because of their experience.

465
00:40:06,740 --> 00:40:12,040
Any certifications that you can reference or, I mean, because I can go and get a back home and go

466
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,450
dig something out of myself that doesn't mean I have any skills. Didn't mean I'm trained. Didn't mean I've

467
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:24,160
licensed any of that. So these folks seem to be operating at least a plumbing category, an operator's

468
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:30,700
category, labor, catagory, those are different crafts completely, so these are

469
00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:40,220
jack-a-balk trades who can do many things, but should they, I think, is the real

470
00:40:40,220 --> 00:40:45,700
question here. So you can't tell me exactly what level of skill, not even a

471
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:49,900
great of how many years they've worked in prior experience to be able to do this

472
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:53,320
because it seemed like when somebody had asked and they said they were in this

473
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:59,680
five months. That may be on our job site, but how older these individuals because that would

474
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,500
kind of question things do. If they're 21, how long have they been digging a hole?

475
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:09,600
I don't think we can get in the ages of art. Right, but 18 is when OSHA allows you to do it. So it's

476
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:16,440
three years if they're 21, it's more if they're older. So age does matter here and it's not a matter

477
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:21,260
of the HR component here. The reality that you're saying they're highly skilled and experienced,

478
00:41:21,260 --> 00:41:28,720
they're limited by the age of 18. So if they're 19, they're not highly skilled or highly trained.

479
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,340
But that's just a supposition right now because-

480
00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:34,180
Okay. Well then we'll move on to the other things that are important here.

481
00:41:35,660 --> 00:41:36,180
So

482
00:41:38,550 --> 00:41:40,790
how tall do you think these workers are?

483
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:45,060
I'm not going to venture that, yes.

484
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:50,840
I mean, a standard operating equipment is usually probably 7 to 10 feet tall, right?

485
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,560
So this individual is presumably higher than 5 feet.

486
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:05,140
I think this is why it's important to make sure and understand why the training is necessary and important here.

487
00:42:05,540 --> 00:42:17,760
If you flip the page 1, where it talks about the excavation standard's 29 code of Federal Regulation CFR Part 1-926-Suppart P, it contains requirements for excavation and trenching operations.

488
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,460
and it highlights all the specifics and modifications for which some of which you noted, which is important.

489
00:42:24,540 --> 00:42:29,920
OSU defines an excavation as any manmade cavity trench or depression on their surface formed by the Earth's removal.

490
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:37,660
Important parts, what are the dangers of trenching, trenching and excavation work presents serious hazards to all workers involved.

491
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:44,540
Caves impose the greatest risk and are more likely than some other excavation-related incidents to result in worker fatalities.

492
00:42:44,540 --> 00:42:48,400
One cubic yard of soil can weigh as much as a car.

493
00:42:49,380 --> 00:42:50,600
Clay, I assume, is heavier.

494
00:42:51,580 --> 00:42:54,280
An unprotected trench can be an early grave.

495
00:42:56,230 --> 00:42:58,730
Employers must ensure that workers' injured trenches

496
00:42:58,730 --> 00:43:01,870
only after adequate protections are in place to address cave

497
00:43:01,870 --> 00:43:02,410
and hazards.

498
00:43:03,010 --> 00:43:05,970
Other potential hazards associated with trench work

499
00:43:05,970 --> 00:43:08,910
include falling loads, hazardous atmospheres

500
00:43:08,910 --> 00:43:11,010
and hazards from mobile equipment.

501
00:43:11,830 --> 00:43:15,010
So, a couple things that I noticed

502
00:43:15,010 --> 00:43:21,810
in this picture. Particularly this one where the individual standing greater than 5 feet in a trench

503
00:43:22,830 --> 00:43:31,920
unprotected by no-shoring of any type is the fact that there are soils right here that are on the edge.

504
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:39,000
If that is clay, it's heavier than soil. OSHA regs require three feet from the main entrance.

505
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:49,160
So, Oshawaan violation. Next, this machine operates with swing, right? So, it spins around.

506
00:43:50,460 --> 00:43:56,700
Where is the protection from the swing? For folks walking by, throwing a Frisbee to close.

507
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:05,440
Oshawaan violation number two. In terms of digging a trench, how do you dig a trench?

508
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:12,480
because it's not a straight hole like this, it's to be at a certain angle so that you can climb

509
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:19,440
in or out. Where is the ladder? Did they take a ladder with them? How do they get out of this

510
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,020
trench that they dug a hole in?

511
00:44:23,310 --> 00:44:26,850
I agree that you do dig at an angle. And when we spoke with them,

512
00:44:27,070 --> 00:44:31,410
they said, you know, I think that the pictures can be a little bit misleading, but they did say that

513
00:44:31,410 --> 00:44:37,210
they did dig this trench at an angle. And therefore, I believe they were able to get up and out of it.

514
00:44:37,210 --> 00:44:41,510
able to step up and out of it if you if you look at the picture which is

515
00:44:41,510 --> 00:44:46,950
deceiving where the young man is standing if he was to move to his left there is

516
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:55,690
a step up right there where he can exit the the trench okay and for digging out

517
00:44:55,690 --> 00:44:59,850
because it's not just a step up it's got to be at a certain grade here that

518
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:10,520
Doesn't leave much for this side, so I assume it's here. Okay, that's fine. So, again, we want to go a little further, because I think it's important. You had mentioned this experience.

519
00:45:11,140 --> 00:45:16,000
Well, OSHA addresses this on page three of that same book. What is a competent person?

520
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,960
competent person is an individual designated by their employer who is capable of identifying

521
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:25,180
existing, predictable hazards in the surroundings of working conditions which are unsanitary,

522
00:45:25,780 --> 00:45:30,040
hazardous, or dangerous to workers, and who is authorized to take prompt corrective measures

523
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:35,540
to eliminate them. Under the excavation standard has performed by competent persons include

524
00:45:35,540 --> 00:45:41,300
classifying soil, inspecting protective systems for which there are none, designing structural

525
00:45:41,300 --> 00:45:47,900
ramps, which may be there, monitoring water removal, which seem to be very present, and conducting

526
00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:48,620
sight inspections.

527
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,680
So again, these are direct from the regs.

528
00:45:53,340 --> 00:45:54,200
Thank you.

529
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,820
No matter how trenching, shoring, and backfilling jobs, and employee has done in the past,

530
00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:04,200
it is important to approach each new job with care and preparation, many on-the-job incidents

531
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,960
result from inadequate and initial planning.

532
00:46:07,580 --> 00:46:13,120
So, again, I want to pass that some more images here because I think it's important to clarify this.

533
00:46:28,210 --> 00:46:33,690
It talks about what safety factors could be considered when bidding on a job, particularly soil classification,

534
00:46:34,150 --> 00:46:39,430
location of water table, which you're out of lakes, so I'm assuming it's pretty low, overhead in underground utilities,

535
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:44,250
which was marked, quantity of shore and protective systems that may be required.

536
00:46:45,250 --> 00:46:49,630
I don't know what supervisors signed off on that, but clearly they don't have OSHA 30.

537
00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:59,560
In sure that while the excavation is open underground installations are protected, supported or removed, it says this over and over again about showing.

538
00:47:00,300 --> 00:47:02,860
How can employers prevent cave and on page 5?

539
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:08,180
Oh, should generally requires the employers protect, protect workers from caveins by,

540
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:13,080
slapping and benching the sides of the excavation, sides noted not one side.

541
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:21,380
Supporting the sides of the excavation for which is not here, placing a shield between the side of the excavation and the work area, all of which is not here.

542
00:47:21,380 --> 00:47:24,840
What types of protective systems can employers use?

543
00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:26,020
There's a variety.

544
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:33,140
And it does reference soil classification, depth of cut, water content, a soil, weather, and climate and operations.

545
00:47:33,700 --> 00:47:41,660
There's even an indication of how the great should be cut in this standard for which that trench does not look like this.

546
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,400
So, again, questions that are raised.

547
00:47:49,140 --> 00:48:00,400
It's specifically sites on page 7, the excavation standards do not require a protected system when an excavation is made entirely in stable rock period.

548
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:11,220
Or when an excavation is less than 5 feet, you said that person is at least 5 feet, so the whole is at least 5 feet is my assumption.

549
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:18,520
And a competent person has examined the ground and found no indication of potential cave ends.

550
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:25,560
I gave you the rest of those pictures because it's important to note, the ground was very, very wet.

551
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:31,500
Granted, from the pipe that was leaking, but very wet still.

552
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,020
I'm glad that you let it dry out and that's noted in some of these on the top side of the soil.

553
00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:42,460
But if it's saturated at the bottom, it's great for sagging and sinking.

554
00:48:47,980 --> 00:48:55,680
I'm a guest, honestly, by your response, Mr. Newman, by you coming in here and blaming

555
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:01,140
me tweeting out to the public, damaging images of the parks department, absolutely, because

556
00:49:01,140 --> 00:49:04,620
of the risks to these two workers that are parks employees.

557
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,960
Nearly a month after we lost a snow cloud driver.

558
00:49:10,540 --> 00:49:14,540
We are putting people at risk because we are not training them to OSHA standards.

559
00:49:14,540 --> 00:49:17,780
I don't know what other standards they are in OSHA.

560
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,200
The supervisors that you brought up,

561
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:22,540
I'm glad that they're there,

562
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,000
but if they're not catching these very, very basic things,

563
00:49:26,860 --> 00:49:28,480
I don't understand what they're checking.

564
00:49:29,700 --> 00:49:32,160
I think Mr. Ganyan, I have had this conversation before,

565
00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:36,140
about making sure the quality of the job is done correctly

566
00:49:36,140 --> 00:49:38,360
and that they're safety on there.

567
00:49:39,820 --> 00:49:42,300
I could care less if you're mad at me after this.

568
00:49:42,340 --> 00:49:43,860
The reality is these two individuals

569
00:49:43,860 --> 00:49:45,740
could have had this caved in on them.

570
00:49:46,020 --> 00:49:50,680
Not to mention, this tractor should not be in these operating machine, should not be on the edge

571
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:55,880
of the trench, because it only applies more pressure to the trench to collapse on itself

572
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,100
and the equipment to fall in on it.

573
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,060
These are countless things that are in violation here.

574
00:50:03,980 --> 00:50:04,680
May I speak?

575
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:06,060
By all means.

576
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:13,240
Thank you. First of all, with all due respect, I wasn't blaming you for a tweet going out.

577
00:50:13,580 --> 00:50:20,000
I was just trying to say, I had not seen those photos. No one had sent me those photos.

578
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:27,220
The unions hadn't sent me the photos. No one had provided the photos to me until they saw them in a tweet that went out.

579
00:50:27,220 --> 00:50:30,380
I didn't even reference it as your treat that went out.

580
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:32,820
So please, there's no blame there.

581
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:34,740
Please do not put any words into my mouth

582
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:36,840
because I did not say any of that.

583
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,120
Without question, we want safe situations.

584
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:47,000
And again, we have not had and please understand.

585
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,880
The reason that safety is so important to us

586
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,680
is because we do not want to be sitting in front of you

587
00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:01,380
and explain why there was a tragedy, or why there was a cave in, et cetera.

588
00:51:02,820 --> 00:51:07,620
This was an basic waterline repair.

589
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:16,560
It was a penhole. That was it. It simply took a silver sleeve to patch it.

590
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:28,780
If the gentleman were really, I mean, in any kind of unsafe, dangerous situation, then I believe

591
00:51:28,780 --> 00:51:33,200
on site where union representatives and I believe they could have phoned me.

592
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:37,780
They could have waited for the supervisor to stop you there because they weren't.

593
00:51:38,180 --> 00:51:39,860
Stop to tell you how to do yours.

594
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:40,900
It is not.

595
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:41,640
But they do.

596
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:42,080
They're here.

597
00:51:42,100 --> 00:51:46,160
You're right to prevent them from having a cave in and two people losing their lives.

598
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,440
That's your job. That wasn't the case. And that's what I'm trying to say. Right.

599
00:51:50,600 --> 00:51:55,580
In safety is only worrying about when someone loses their lives. That's not how this works, Miss Newman.

600
00:51:55,760 --> 00:52:00,740
So this is not the union rep responsibility to tell your workers to get out of a trench.

601
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:03,580
In order to have the authority to do it.

602
00:52:03,580 --> 00:52:03,860
Sure.

603
00:52:05,580 --> 00:52:06,960
Vice Chair Pate.

604
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,160
Thank you so much.

605
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,720
My Angelo has a quote.

606
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,060
Do the best you can until you know better.

607
00:52:17,580 --> 00:52:19,760
Then when you know better, do better.

608
00:52:21,380 --> 00:52:23,300
You have stated that parts plus record

609
00:52:23,300 --> 00:52:25,320
on 40 years without an incident.

610
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:29,460
That does not mean that we're accident or incident proof,

611
00:52:30,300 --> 00:52:33,680
but I am very excited that that is the case.

612
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:45,020
You mentioned that the employees had skills training and excavation using minor heavy equipment for excavation.

613
00:52:45,020 --> 00:52:48,180
That's wonderful. I can see why you selected them.

614
00:52:48,700 --> 00:52:55,600
However, we now know better because we know that there was a possibility.

615
00:52:55,600 --> 00:53:08,880
Not that an accident happened, I understand you using these people for what was a minor leak in a pipe, I understand all that, but once you know better, you do better.

616
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:18,480
We know that it is not a made-up possibility. Something could have happened. It didn't end for that we are grateful.

617
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:23,460
We know that these people have been trained by the standards of the department.

618
00:53:23,860 --> 00:53:25,640
You're doing a great job with that.

619
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:33,520
However, we know that there's ocean training that could provide that additional layer of training

620
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,080
and support to keep our employees safe.

621
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:41,100
So, and when you know that, you do better.

622
00:53:41,240 --> 00:53:44,400
We know that some things may seem small,

623
00:53:45,940 --> 00:53:52,620
But that's only because we don't have the full knowledge or extent of any given project.

624
00:53:53,020 --> 00:53:55,860
But we know that there are trained trace people.

625
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:58,100
We know that there are trained plumbers.

626
00:53:58,700 --> 00:54:06,520
Now, we can assess a situation, but without the ocean training, without the knowledge and

627
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:10,420
insight of the professionals, we could fall short.

628
00:54:10,420 --> 00:54:19,020
So this happened and it's very fortunate that it has come to our attention because what now we know better.

629
00:54:20,020 --> 00:54:27,680
And now that we know better, the debate is whether or not we're going to step up and put in additional standards.

630
00:54:28,940 --> 00:54:33,320
Once it's brought to our attention, what are we going to do to keep our employees safe?

631
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,060
Now that it's brought to our attention, how can we do better?

632
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,580
And I would like for the conversation to be,

633
00:54:40,980 --> 00:54:42,920
what are we going to do better?

634
00:54:42,980 --> 00:54:46,120
Now we've already had Barbara Castle Mitchell

635
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:51,660
tell us about her wanting to know more about organizations,

636
00:54:52,820 --> 00:54:55,580
about companies that will help us,

637
00:54:56,020 --> 00:54:57,900
that could be a part of the big process.

638
00:54:58,740 --> 00:54:59,980
What are we going to do to make-

639
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:23,820
Make sure that our employees receive training to avoid situations that could possibly cause any hurricane or danger to anyone, and no matter where we work, and no matter what office we're working in, there's a potential for danger, and the more I need to bend at my knees and practice that, the better off my back is going to be.

640
00:55:23,820 --> 00:55:32,160
The more that you know that there are tradespeople that really need to get involved in certain projects,

641
00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:34,720
then that's going to make the department better.

642
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:36,660
It's going to keep our people safer.

643
00:55:37,980 --> 00:55:41,960
So, that is my field.

644
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,180
Now that we know better, we do need to do better.

645
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:46,620
That's just my opinion.

646
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:49,280
Thank you, guys.

647
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:53,080
or pay any other common thoughts or legislators' method.

648
00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:57,020
So this is for any of you, or even you, Mr. Clifford,

649
00:55:57,640 --> 00:56:01,780
is there a consolidated place where employees,

650
00:56:03,020 --> 00:56:04,560
or members of the public, or whatever,

651
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,400
can report if there's a safety incident, an injury,

652
00:56:10,460 --> 00:56:13,240
or a safety concern that they've run into,

653
00:56:13,900 --> 00:56:15,840
it's other employers that I've had

654
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:22,080
a really strict policy like if I even nick my finger practically with a paper cut.

655
00:56:22,220 --> 00:56:28,380
I was supposed to call it a supposed to call it an incident report, right? I'm just curious

656
00:56:28,380 --> 00:56:33,960
if the county has a universally accessible sort of safety reporting system for either incidents

657
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:34,760
or concerns.

658
00:56:35,220 --> 00:56:39,440
Yeah, lifestyles with cable clover county executive office. There are multiple systems. I think

659
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,500
there won't be an external system. So if an individual saw something or wanted to report

660
00:56:43,500 --> 00:56:50,480
Whatever their concerns were, Office of Community Complaints, Director Crawford is their best first place to call.

661
00:56:50,780 --> 00:56:58,400
And then internally within the departments and within HR's policy rules, there are internal reporting requirements for those involved at internet as well.

662
00:56:58,540 --> 00:56:59,820
We can provide those to you as well.

663
00:57:00,500 --> 00:57:08,400
And those internal reporting requirements do they, is there a universal log for internal incidents?

664
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:13,560
And here's why I'm asking is, because I've seen it in the past, other employers, where

665
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:15,240
an employee uses to their supervisor.

666
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:16,960
Maybe that's the mandatory reporting.

667
00:57:17,580 --> 00:57:18,700
Hey, this is unsafe.

668
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:24,440
But then it's not logged and the supervisor might kind of sweep it under the rug.

669
00:57:24,620 --> 00:57:25,920
I'm not saying our people have done that.

670
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:30,900
That's why I'm asking if there's kind of a universal reporting system internally, other than

671
00:57:30,900 --> 00:57:31,840
O.E.H.R.CC.

672
00:57:32,540 --> 00:57:35,720
I think it probably works in parts to provide more detail to this.

673
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,200
but I believe that HR is compiling all that information,

674
00:57:38,460 --> 00:57:41,460
but I don't know if they hit prints into a singular report

675
00:57:41,460 --> 00:57:42,120
for that information,

676
00:57:44,340 --> 00:57:44,340
sir.

677
00:57:44,860 --> 00:57:46,700
Any, we can lower the counselor's office?

678
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:48,680
Yes, but I was just going to interject.

679
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,280
If there's an injury, we do HR does have a process for that

680
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,300
where the supervisor and the associate who's injured

681
00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:59,760
fill out an incident report, and those are all kept with an HR

682
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,360
and then I'll defer to these folks for their own policy.

683
00:58:04,100 --> 00:58:06,460
I was actually going to say it's same thing about injury reporting.

684
00:58:06,460 --> 00:58:10,800
We also have an open door policy and online platforms for the public.

685
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:15,480
So we have an open door transparent, you know,

686
00:58:15,620 --> 00:58:17,160
park in and in protocols.

687
00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,580
And for go ahead, I was going to say within the parks department,

688
00:58:22,860 --> 00:58:25,860
we have all of the different reporting systems,

689
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,880
but for our public, they contact our park rangers, park rangers,

690
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,100
make a report, they come out to the site,

691
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,380
take pictures, do whatever they need to,

692
00:58:34,380 --> 00:58:38,580
And then within, like you said, a paper cut is simple as that.

693
00:58:38,940 --> 00:58:41,380
I just had a fellow get stunned just the other day.

694
00:58:41,620 --> 00:58:45,280
And he made that report that is all documented.

695
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:50,200
We have a safety committee that meets on a monthly basis.

696
00:58:50,900 --> 00:58:56,780
And we go over all of our different injuries or incidents,

697
00:58:56,980 --> 00:58:59,940
whether it be a vehicle that was damaged or whatnot.

698
00:59:00,140 --> 00:59:03,960
And we go back to those associates and let them know.

699
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:33,220
What was decided, whether it was preventable or not, and we keep specific statistics throughout the entire year, for which we present on a yearly basis also at our supervisor's training, which we actually have coming up on April 24, or I'm sorry 23rd, so we take it very seriously, all of our incidents, whether it be very simple as a staying to cutting your hand when you're splitting what those types of things.

700
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:43,120
Okay, I'll just say conceptually, I hear, I think that different departments, things are kind of handled in each department.

701
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:52,960
I think it might benefit the county to have a unified view of all safety incidents, whether they're there.

702
00:59:53,180 --> 00:59:58,360
Excuse me, actual injuries or gorgeous concerns raised by this staff.

703
00:59:59,060 --> 00:59:59,960
I've heard of some...

704
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:06,420
Recently, in other departments as well. So I just want to make sure we're doing what we can to identify

705
01:00:06,420 --> 01:00:12,440
an opportunity, maybe, for best practices of having one place where all this information can be viewed

706
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:19,020
and we can start to develop some historic trends and practices. Other question is, so if we think

707
01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:27,600
about this individual situation with the trench and the folks that dealt with it, any of you

708
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:37,340
tell me what our people doing the work approximately cost compared to if we engage outside

709
01:00:37,340 --> 01:00:37,900
contractors.

710
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:44,280
So I think there's both a safety element to this as well as a fiscal element and for what's

711
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:48,720
being described as a pinhole leak that we had people that knew how to handle it.

712
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,800
Maybe they didn't dot all their eyes across all their teeth by putting the dirt part

713
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:58,040
up away and dealing with other potential safety things, maybe there is an opportunity there,

714
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:03,720
but I guess if we were to say just hypothetically everything, we call the experts in.

715
01:01:03,860 --> 01:01:09,640
I think I'm hearing now that we would have had a contractor that maybe do the excavation work,

716
01:01:09,700 --> 01:01:13,120
different contractor doing the plumbing work, maybe I'm wrong about that, maybe it's just

717
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:14,340
one contractor to roll it.

718
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:19,900
But I guess I'm just trying to understand, do you guys think there would be a cost implication

719
01:01:19,900 --> 01:01:27,620
to taking a more strict everything's done by tradesmen type type approach. And if so, how would

720
01:01:27,620 --> 01:01:29,380
you characterize that cost of location?

721
01:01:30,580 --> 01:01:31,940
Well, I do think they're going.

722
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:38,100
I think there's a multitude of complexities to that question, right? I mean, safety is paramount.

723
01:01:38,580 --> 01:01:45,680
So we're not choosing outside contractors because we're trying to skim safety, right? So is there

724
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,880
an economy to doing it internally? Absolutely. I mean, that's just the fact of the matter.

725
01:01:49,900 --> 01:01:56,780
and it's not necessarily whether they're union organized or not because if we bring

726
01:01:56,780 --> 01:02:02,040
an outside contractor that's union versus our internal employees that are union, there

727
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:07,540
is still going to be an economy to doing it internally, multipliers from through a business

728
01:02:07,540 --> 01:02:13,220
overhead, et cetera, but we track everything, we track our labor, we track our equipment usage,

729
01:02:13,380 --> 01:02:19,800
we track our hours, so if you wanted some details of internal versus external, it's

730
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:28,100
I think we have done the study in the past year or so, but it's usually around 40% of the cost of external work.

731
01:02:28,820 --> 01:02:29,480
30%?

732
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:31,040
30%?

733
01:02:31,740 --> 01:02:35,520
I'm looking for broad characterization, not so it's very fair.

734
01:02:36,060 --> 01:02:37,860
So does that have a budgetary implication?

735
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,880
Yes, can we do 40% of the work we could if it was all external?

736
01:02:41,460 --> 01:02:46,080
Then the answer is probably common sense-wise, probably so.

737
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:51,720
But we don't, we don't necessarily keep those statistics of how did we save money versus external work.

738
01:02:51,940 --> 01:02:56,660
I just, like I said, there's multiple facets to this that are

739
01:02:57,260 --> 01:03:02,860
an interesting considerations for me, and I just want to make sure I've brought the light that fiscal aspect to this.

740
01:03:03,140 --> 01:03:12,400
But I will say that along with parts plus wreck, public works, we do invest a lot into our staff coming in to make sure that they do have the proper training.

741
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:17,880
But before we put them in a situation to do work that could have been, you know,

742
01:03:18,140 --> 01:03:20,140
questionable by individuals that were not trained.

743
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:24,600
So we invest a lot of money and time into individuals to make sure they're prepared.

744
01:03:25,060 --> 01:03:27,180
Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, maybe more for Mr. Clifford.

745
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:33,060
But across all departments, we don't have one chief safety officer, for example,

746
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:36,660
a role that's specifically is making sure all departments are

747
01:03:37,900 --> 01:03:40,140
conforming to appropriate safety standards as effort.

748
01:03:40,140 --> 01:03:43,840
Well, we do have risk management specialists and individuals that are focused on that area.

749
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:45,940
We do not have anyone with a title that you referenced.

750
01:03:46,420 --> 01:03:50,040
I think that that is an extremely important discussion and one that we want to have

751
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,400
and one that I'd actually like to go a little bit deeper into this moment.

752
01:03:52,620 --> 01:03:56,620
I also want to be thoughtful, though, of the open records and open meetings law.

753
01:03:57,140 --> 01:04:03,060
And as I look back on the meeting invite, I noticed the discussion today is on term of supply contracts.

754
01:04:03,140 --> 01:04:07,140
We want to make sure that I don't go too far field of that in case there are issues in the future.

755
01:04:07,140 --> 01:04:12,460
But absolutely, that is a very important discussion to have on whether or not that structure would make sense for Jackson County.

756
01:04:13,020 --> 01:04:19,660
We have individuals in risk management and we have individuals with end departments that specialize in focus on those areas because of the uniqueness of each department.

757
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:30,220
As you might imagine, risk management for a public law enforcement entity like the sheriff's office is very different than public works may be or from parks and from the other offices.

758
01:04:30,500 --> 01:04:35,020
However, in a umbrella position, they make sense. It's just a cost that the county is going to have to consider in the future.

759
01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:43,220
Can I ask a follow-up on now and where is the risk manager placed now what department or where is the risk manager at?

760
01:04:43,300 --> 01:04:50,160
The positions within the finance department, that was the position that was made at least in the prior administration if not some time before that.

761
01:04:50,580 --> 01:04:59,280
However, some of those responsibilities of what I think are traditionally associated with that position have been taken on by the county councilor's office HR and then within each department.

762
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:29,880
I mean, I mean, having taken many classes on risk management versus safety, they're very different. And so I think that's an important distinction to make, and would agree that an opportunity to look for solutions in the future. I do want to go back to Legislators Smith's question about term and supply contractors. And I think the main reason why this came up had to do with more of individuals being employed by us, versus using an outside contractor.

763
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:33,400
quality, quality, all of those things.

764
01:05:34,020 --> 01:05:37,780
I had asked Ms. Casemento to give us some information

765
01:05:37,780 --> 01:05:39,420
about our terms of supply contractors.

766
01:05:40,020 --> 01:05:42,700
I believe Monica is working with her tech.

767
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:45,160
It's been challenging this morning as well.

768
01:05:45,420 --> 01:05:47,740
But I'll forge you out to my colleagues,

769
01:05:48,020 --> 01:05:51,620
all of the terms of supply contractors that were shared.

770
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:53,640
Ms. Casemento, if you have it in front of you,

771
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:55,600
you're welcome to read it, and if not,

772
01:05:56,340 --> 01:05:58,640
we can kind of go on off from there.

773
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:01,840
You're talking about the one's barber cast mental purchasing department.

774
01:06:01,860 --> 01:06:04,240
You're talking about the ones who are considered construction.

775
01:06:04,860 --> 01:06:04,980
Yes.

776
01:06:04,980 --> 01:06:09,280
I added one more because I forgot that it was kind of late right after noon.

777
01:06:09,580 --> 01:06:13,760
We've got a spault at concrete, which is delivery and pick up of materials.

778
01:06:14,540 --> 01:06:19,900
Asphault at products and services, which is a little bit of both work and products.

779
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:26,420
Crest rock, which is delivery of materials, electrical services, which is services.

780
01:06:26,420 --> 01:06:31,780
general construction, which is services, HVAC services, again services,

781
01:06:32,340 --> 01:06:36,500
liquid asphalt, which is delivery of product, plumbing services,

782
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:42,620
which is services, roofing services, again services, and Earthwork services.

783
01:06:44,020 --> 01:06:48,500
Out of these 10 contracts, only one has an RBO because we didn't start doing

784
01:06:48,500 --> 01:06:51,140
the RBOs until 2024.

785
01:06:51,140 --> 01:06:57,000
three of them are delivery, and the other seven all have wage determinations on them.

786
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:02,340
Most of them have performance bonds, all of them have insurance, and most of the

787
01:07:02,340 --> 01:07:10,220
services do call for OSHA, and all the training, and they all have insurance.

788
01:07:10,700 --> 01:07:15,420
So we add a lot to those terms, apply contracts to make sure we're getting what we need.

789
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:20,160
Yeah, and as a self-employed entity, I think it's important that we maintain similar standards

790
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:26,160
for the work that we're doing internally. I want to inquire of both directors or supervisors.

791
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:32,300
What's the determination for using either terms of like contract or versus going in

792
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:37,680
house? Is there a threshold? Is there a focus of work? Any of that stuff? Go ahead.

793
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:44,520
Definitely determines on the task and capabilities of our staff. We do have a very trained staff,

794
01:07:44,680 --> 01:07:50,140
but we do as most government agencies do have turnover. We ensure that our staff are well

795
01:07:50,140 --> 01:07:56,420
trained enough to tackle the task and the competent people are on site to oversee the task.

796
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:02,680
I couldn't give you an actual percentage of what it is. For example, we installed road

797
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:07,740
culverts. We do not install install internally anything over 36 inches in diameter. That's kind of

798
01:08:07,740 --> 01:08:14,040
our standard. Anything in 36 inches in diameter obviously brings in a lot of pieces to

799
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:20,860
to OSHA requirements on shoring and trenching capabilities that we don't necessarily have extreme

800
01:08:20,860 --> 01:08:26,880
amounts of experience and training for, so we choose to use competent contractors from

801
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:27,200
the outside.

802
01:08:29,630 --> 01:08:35,990
I would say that it's really pretty much, I would be repeating what Brian said, you know,

803
01:08:35,990 --> 01:08:41,070
Barbol was talking about term and supply contracts and we knew that you would ask us to

804
01:08:41,070 --> 01:08:42,490
come down and talk about those.

805
01:08:42,490 --> 01:08:47,130
So I asked if I could get a list of all of the term and supply contracts, and then Tina and

806
01:08:47,130 --> 01:08:51,810
I sat down and went through those to see how many of these do the parks department use.

807
01:08:52,390 --> 01:08:57,430
And there's at least 140 term and supply contracts that the parks department uses.

808
01:08:58,730 --> 01:09:02,370
So we definitely contract out when it's necessary.

809
01:09:02,810 --> 01:09:10,410
I think it's important to understand that we are the largest park system in the state of Missouri.

810
01:09:10,410 --> 01:09:20,150
we have 21,000 acres of park land. We've got 200 aging facilities and so to be able to do minor

811
01:09:20,150 --> 01:09:28,910
repairs, you know, when we're talking like, you know, leaky faucets or, um, gosh, changing out light

812
01:09:28,910 --> 01:09:35,970
bulbs and things of that nature, um, we absolutely need to be able to, do you have those there?

813
01:09:35,970 --> 01:09:49,610
Thank you. You know, we do, we unlock toilets. You know, things of that nature, we need to be able to do those within the department with the people that we do believe or skilled and that we have trained them in these areas.

814
01:09:50,350 --> 01:09:59,610
Because they may be at 4-0 sage and then we've got an issue out at Kenneth Road at 150th. We are a customer service based organization.

815
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:10,860
Because we, you know, we have our eight million dollar enterprise operation. And, you know, it's important that we're able to respond for minor things as quickly as possible.

816
01:10:11,300 --> 01:10:20,540
But if it is something major, I assure you, we do contract that out. And we do use several term and supply contracts.

817
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:31,400
Mr. Gaddy, in terms of what your statement was, it brought up a question about the quantity

818
01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:35,820
of trades folks that we have, but I think it sounds like it's shared between the departments.

819
01:10:36,340 --> 01:10:42,140
Does anyone know what the total amount of folks that are part of that MOU I think that we have

820
01:10:42,140 --> 01:10:42,560
on staff?

821
01:10:42,700 --> 01:10:45,160
I think there was a reference to the carpenter's who I think it was.

822
01:10:45,740 --> 01:10:50,040
We have 24 positions, Parks has five, we have five.

823
01:10:50,040 --> 01:10:52,480
So 29 total down the county.

824
01:10:52,500 --> 01:10:53,800
And how do you consider building trades?

825
01:10:54,120 --> 01:10:56,680
Are they broken down into any specific way

826
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,480
or are there 15 carpenters and four plumbers?

827
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,900
What's the ratios, if any?

828
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:04,580
So carpenters, plumbers, electricians,

829
01:11:04,820 --> 01:11:06,480
operating engineers, painters, right?

830
01:11:06,940 --> 01:11:08,780
We have three painters.

831
01:11:09,440 --> 01:11:12,280
They have two painters, I believe, two painters, correct?

832
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,080
Yes, we have four carpenters.

833
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:17,380
They have three.

834
01:11:17,380 --> 01:11:20,000
We have six operating engineers.

835
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:22,880
We have three electricians.

836
01:11:26,020 --> 01:11:27,120
We have five performers.

837
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:29,420
And that adds to 24 and I'm just kidding.

838
01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:31,740
I mean, that's a 24 position.

839
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:33,000
We have 24 positions.

840
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:42,960
So I asked that question because I think there was an assumption made earlier about 55 employees in parks probably 40 or so as my assumption that are actually

841
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:48,160
in a field doing something within a category of construction or maintenance of some type.

842
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:54,360
But I want to understand this concept of minor repairs versus major, because a minor repair

843
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:58,240
to me is hanging a picture on the wall, but yet we have a carpenter hanging a picture

844
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:01,360
on the wall, not a plumber repairing a pipe.

845
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:08,540
So I want to understand the difference of what minor and major is and what policy if any,

846
01:12:08,660 --> 01:12:11,880
either departmental or at our level, governs that.

847
01:12:13,380 --> 01:12:20,960
I do an interject, we are in the midst of labor negotiations and one of the things we're currently negotiating as a serious issue.

848
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:28,040
So we're going to get two in the weeds with what is minor versus major that would need to be in a closed session, which we could certainly.

849
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:39,360
I mean, if you want to talk generally, that's fine, but if we're defining right now what is skilled labor versus what is not that is currently the topic of our negotiation in our labor negotiations,

850
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,400
but we wouldn't need to do that in closed session

851
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,740
if you'd like us to schedule one.

852
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:46,240
I can give you a generalization.

853
01:12:46,540 --> 01:12:48,920
On plumbing, we have one termans ply,

854
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:50,760
that's got the wage determination

855
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,000
or everything, it's for major projects, big projects.

856
01:12:54,380 --> 01:12:56,540
We have another termans ply that's for quick,

857
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:58,560
easy projects that they need,

858
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:00,560
when they need a polymer to come out

859
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:02,880
and fix something, they still need the skilled labor,

860
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:04,780
it's not going to be a big project.

861
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,700
So we have two, one's major, one's minor.

862
01:13:08,700 --> 01:13:15,740
In terms of contract, right, but we're talking workers here, I think, at a different level as well, but that's good perspective.

863
01:13:15,940 --> 01:13:17,460
I think to have.

864
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,580
Application is based on capability and backlog.

865
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,820
If we can't get to something and what needs to be accomplished, sure.

866
01:13:25,940 --> 01:13:27,380
We will ask somebody to assist.

867
01:13:28,340 --> 01:13:35,540
We have found, at least from the public work site, from the facility side, because this applies really to facilities more than I think it applies to the rest of public works or parks.

868
01:13:35,540 --> 01:13:40,960
This is a vertical contract, it actually is very successful on the vertical side of construction.

869
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:47,480
We feel and it has been, maybe not statistically verified, but definitely in my opinion,

870
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:54,100
that we are more successful when we accomplish the majority of our work internal staff

871
01:13:54,100 --> 01:13:58,240
that understands the capabilities, understands the systems of facilities we work in.

872
01:13:58,460 --> 01:14:02,380
We have a very diverse building stock in the county from the Historic Room Court,

873
01:14:02,380 --> 01:14:10,500
that was first directed in 1829 to brand new buildings in the new detention center of 2024 and everything in between.

874
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:16,080
So there is a historic and institutional knowledge required for a lot of the work to be completed.

875
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:19,660
We rely on them to perform those tasks.

876
01:14:20,220 --> 01:14:24,320
And for those new buildings that we do in school upgrades, I'll go back to you guys in one second.

877
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:31,240
Just do we have any skill upgrade because I'm guessing to serve as a boiler from the 1900s versus high tech HVAC system

878
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:33,440
Very different abilities, right?

879
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:36,590
Do we do any of that retraining retooling any of that stuff?

880
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:43,360
So this is kind of I think that's kind of a trick question. Yes, we try to give as much information to our staff

881
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:50,180
But the MOU is very distinctly describes that skilled tradesmen are provided to the county

882
01:14:50,180 --> 01:14:58,140
So, if they have things that they need to learn, it's our responsibility to ensure that they do that, but it's their own as to go grab that information.

883
01:14:58,920 --> 01:14:59,960
And I'll go to Arxon.

884
01:15:00,900 --> 01:15:10,000
Would you repeat the question please? Yeah, so the first one was about kind of that definitive line to limited ability here in terms of when you use

885
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:19,500
Mine, versus major internal versus external. If there's any policy procedures that you all govern yourself are on that would hold that standard secure.

886
01:15:19,940 --> 01:15:23,580
and then also trying to see if you're adding new facilities online.

887
01:15:23,700 --> 01:15:24,780
I think less parks.

888
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,060
Or maybe with some of your green tech that you're using.

889
01:15:27,720 --> 01:15:31,180
Anything that you're adding to this skill set of any of your current employees,

890
01:15:32,420 --> 01:15:36,380
with retraining's upgraded trainings to help them manage and maintenance those

891
01:15:36,380 --> 01:15:37,200
like solar panels, right?

892
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:40,060
I mean, that's something that somebody has to probably learn

893
01:15:40,060 --> 01:15:44,020
in the last decade or two to know how to manage and operate if needed.

894
01:15:44,860 --> 01:15:45,080
So.

895
01:15:45,100 --> 01:15:46,500
Well, I think again,

896
01:15:46,500 --> 01:15:54,740
It internally, it does talk about, you know, are they capable, are they trained, do they have the knowledge to handle this job?

897
01:15:55,140 --> 01:15:56,620
What is our workload?

898
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,880
And again, you know, being an apartment as large as we have,

899
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:07,760
we really do depend on the people with, as Brian said, institutional knowledge, knows our facilities.

900
01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:11,860
If it is a minor repair being able to do that job,

901
01:16:12,500 --> 01:16:17,720
If it is something that we believe needs to be contracted out, we don't hesitate to do it.

902
01:16:17,860 --> 01:16:25,280
You know, we have a full budget for work that needs to be contracted out, and so we don't hesitate to do that.

903
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:28,630
Questions, comments from my colleagues?

904
01:16:28,810 --> 01:16:32,850
I think we're nearing an end of this discussion unless anyone else has any.

905
01:16:33,090 --> 01:16:33,530
Yes.

906
01:16:33,770 --> 01:16:34,110
Vice Chair.

907
01:16:34,670 --> 01:16:36,430
Well, we'll let her go first and then I'll go back to you.

908
01:16:36,750 --> 01:16:41,830
And actually I know that there will be a few more comments, but before we get to those,

909
01:16:41,830 --> 01:16:48,490
I wanted to make sure that we take a moment to look back and talk about those things that

910
01:16:48,490 --> 01:16:53,910
we want it to hear back from administration a lot, because sometimes that gets lost.

911
01:16:54,810 --> 01:17:01,190
So if we could take a moment and say, I know that I could throw it to Miss Miller and be

912
01:17:01,190 --> 01:17:08,210
real mean, but I won't say, to list out all of our follows, but I think the main thing

913
01:17:08,210 --> 01:17:13,150
to follow up and find out what of your staff members have OSHA 10, OSHA 30, and you need those

914
01:17:13,150 --> 01:17:18,790
certifications. Maybe by training guide or something that gives reference to the expectations

915
01:17:18,790 --> 01:17:23,190
of your employees. I think Mr. Gattie, you've supplied that in the past about your own personal

916
01:17:23,190 --> 01:17:29,170
public works. I think safety standards and protocols. But it does a different one for parts plus

917
01:17:29,170 --> 01:17:37,190
wreck. Understanding from this situation, I think the incidental situation here, what could

918
01:17:37,190 --> 01:17:41,710
done differently, what's going to be done differently here, and that follow-up what standards

919
01:17:41,710 --> 01:17:48,430
exist for safety, broadly from your departments as well, and trainings that exist on these

920
01:17:48,430 --> 01:17:54,530
topics. Looking back down here and seeing if there's anything else. Go ahead.

921
01:17:55,450 --> 01:18:01,210
One of my concerns in this conversation has been the fact that I think let's slater Smith

922
01:18:01,210 --> 01:18:03,450
brought this up, or I just laid our barca.

923
01:18:04,890 --> 01:18:07,810
We do not have a safety captain.

924
01:18:08,710 --> 01:18:12,790
We do not have someone other than, and thank you very much,

925
01:18:13,030 --> 01:18:14,330
for mentioning risk management.

926
01:18:15,110 --> 01:18:18,130
But in that also, Mr. Clifford,

927
01:18:18,250 --> 01:18:23,870
you mentioned that the definition of what they do varies.

928
01:18:25,030 --> 01:18:30,730
So we're not specifically sure how risk management plays

929
01:18:30,730 --> 01:18:38,330
into those safety records, those safety history, making sure that safety is being talked and trained

930
01:18:38,330 --> 01:18:45,010
and making sure that work sites are safe internally, are making that determination when we

931
01:18:45,010 --> 01:18:52,030
need to call in professionals to do the job rather than putting that on is on the department

932
01:18:52,030 --> 01:19:00,190
hate because the safety captain, of course, would have a broader scope and be able to help

933
01:19:00,190 --> 01:19:05,970
us keep track of ways that we can continue to improve as a company.

934
01:19:06,990 --> 01:19:10,390
So I throw that out because I think it's an excellent idea, I'm very needed.

935
01:19:11,130 --> 01:19:17,170
Others that had elements here, I did have one question that was a follow up to that point,

936
01:19:17,170 --> 01:19:27,410
Does the legal department look at any of this stuff at any point for liability impacts so say, you know, we get an incident report of somebody cut their finger on that job

937
01:19:27,410 --> 01:19:32,070
Do you all ever get to look at that from a liability standpoint in any of these situations?

938
01:19:32,410 --> 01:19:39,230
At times, Whitney Miller is a counselor's office. At times we do certainly have thirst, litigation or threat and litigation or

939
01:19:40,450 --> 01:19:44,410
reason to believe there could be litigation I mean we certainly don't review every incident

940
01:19:44,410 --> 01:19:50,150
report but yeah do you see like the incident I think we had heard about some safety

941
01:19:50,150 --> 01:19:54,890
training incident reports about how many incidents have occurred on the job at a

942
01:19:54,890 --> 01:19:59,830
certain thing do you get any of that or who what does that go human resources

943
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:08,320
We're very closely with our third party work comp group that we meet with on an annual basis to discuss occurrences.

944
01:20:08,720 --> 01:20:19,180
I don't know about Michelle's group, but mine has had very few in recent years. Obviously, we have a very large one recently, but for the most part, we have had very few too.

945
01:20:19,860 --> 01:20:22,480
I'm not sure if we have any major other cases going on right now.

946
01:20:22,480 --> 01:20:27,580
I will also admit I've done nearly everything in our office in the last 13 years but I've never touched

947
01:20:27,580 --> 01:20:31,780
work comp. So I would I would ask our my colleague and get back to you on that.

948
01:20:32,300 --> 01:20:32,840
What they.

949
01:20:33,460 --> 01:20:35,800
All that information is recorded. I think it was important.

950
01:20:36,180 --> 01:20:41,020
And we work very closely with the risk manager as well as HR.

951
01:20:41,480 --> 01:20:46,120
In regards if there are any kind of incidents that we feel we need to contact them.

952
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:47,180
Who is the risk manager?

953
01:20:47,180 --> 01:20:51,080
I don't know if it's just math is infinite.

954
01:20:54,460 --> 01:20:55,560
And go ahead.

955
01:20:55,940 --> 01:20:56,080
Yeah.

956
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:56,600
Yeah.

957
01:20:56,620 --> 01:21:01,020
I was just going to say, and follow up to Legislative Patents.

958
01:21:01,580 --> 01:21:05,520
I know that you were speaking about an overall safety committee.

959
01:21:06,620 --> 01:21:10,200
But if you all would like, we would be happy to.

960
01:21:10,200 --> 01:21:14,220
I know that you talked about, you know, the training guide who's OSHA 1030 certified

961
01:21:14,220 --> 01:21:19,820
etcetera but you know we certainly have our SOPs and but if you would like we can

962
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:27,420
provide you our safety committee our chief of park safety overseas that and we could certainly

963
01:21:27,420 --> 01:21:34,560
provide you the logistics in terms of of how that is ran and our monthly meetings etc if that would be

964
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:41,920
of help. That would be great happy to come and listen learn as well. Okay. Any other comments or

965
01:21:42,580 --> 01:21:47,420
Forgotten, follow-ups. I'm sure there may be more. I'll have my team reach out and find out for sure.

966
01:21:47,820 --> 01:21:54,080
Are we okay to put down some of the response to minor, major and writing, send it over and do it, close that?

967
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:57,400
So we'd have to do a close session. Is that a right from the department heads?

968
01:21:57,800 --> 01:21:58,680
Would it, sorry, what do you mean put it in there?

969
01:21:58,680 --> 01:22:01,600
Just like what the determination is, like, what is the line, right?

970
01:22:01,720 --> 01:22:10,640
If it's a five-feet trench versus a two-feet trench, or is it, you know, what are standards just to know when to say flag up flag down in the middle?

971
01:22:10,640 --> 01:22:12,560
Again, generally speaking,

972
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:13,920
considering we're still in negotiations,

973
01:22:14,520 --> 01:22:16,880
I don't think we're pretty discussed that.

974
01:22:17,340 --> 01:22:19,060
We are continuing our discussions with them,

975
01:22:19,200 --> 01:22:20,660
and we feel pretty strongly that

976
01:22:20,660 --> 01:22:23,060
those negotiations could conclude this week.

977
01:22:23,620 --> 01:22:24,660
Should that be the case?

978
01:22:25,420 --> 01:22:28,540
That will probably be written some form in the agreement.

979
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:30,860
Any legislation that we need

980
01:22:30,860 --> 01:22:32,840
to consider following up

981
01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:35,400
to do that would be helpful to you all?

982
01:22:37,870 --> 01:22:39,090
I mean, is it helpful to adopt

983
01:22:39,090 --> 01:22:45,370
Ocean standards, regs, anything like that to help guide support safety programs, safety managers,

984
01:22:46,530 --> 01:22:50,150
I mean anything like that that you, you all as directors, think would be helpful.

985
01:22:51,010 --> 01:22:55,150
That might be good if we could sit down and chat through rather just hard to interrupt yourself,

986
01:22:55,310 --> 01:22:59,730
but if we could have some time to talk through that. How about I say, you know, send me some ideas

987
01:22:59,730 --> 01:23:04,830
two weeks or so when we can all workshop whatever to figure out going forward. I think the goal of

988
01:23:04,830 --> 01:23:08,890
everyone here was to make sure that we have a safer workplace, not creating a liability

989
01:23:08,890 --> 01:23:13,650
for the candidates unnecessary, continue the work of parks and public works.

990
01:23:14,690 --> 01:23:16,550
And make sure that the work is quality done, right?

991
01:23:16,550 --> 01:23:20,930
I think Mr. Getty and I have at least had conversations about inspection, right, how

992
01:23:20,930 --> 01:23:26,450
we don't, we don't have an inspector per se that comes and checks our work to see the quality

993
01:23:26,450 --> 01:23:27,090
of that, right?

994
01:23:27,090 --> 01:23:29,970
So somebody is slipping, who does that?

995
01:23:31,970 --> 01:23:32,970
We actually do.

996
01:23:32,970 --> 01:23:35,530
I don't know what we had the conversation.

997
01:23:35,550 --> 01:23:36,350
Part of what we did.

998
01:23:36,610 --> 01:23:42,850
Barely I made this conversation up, and I appreciate this conversation, because safety

999
01:23:42,850 --> 01:23:44,570
is absolutely paramount, right?

1000
01:23:44,710 --> 01:23:49,230
I mean, something we talked about in our tailgate talks every single day, we encourage

1001
01:23:49,230 --> 01:23:52,070
our corpsmen to talk to our people that safety is paramount.

1002
01:23:52,190 --> 01:23:55,390
We want them to go home with their families, their loved ones, exactly how they showed

1003
01:23:55,390 --> 01:23:55,990
up in the morning.

1004
01:23:57,630 --> 01:23:58,890
Give her a check.

1005
01:23:59,130 --> 01:24:00,110
But there's nothing in the middle.

1006
01:24:00,230 --> 01:24:01,550
Let's go home and say.

1007
01:24:02,190 --> 01:24:06,650
But I would ask because we do this type of work every day.

1008
01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:09,650
And I understand that we are working with a lot of documentation.

1009
01:24:09,890 --> 01:24:13,410
We have a lot of professionals that are experienced with this onsite.

1010
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:18,690
But the fact that this wasn't a formal investigation or analysis, there's kind of a lot of

1011
01:24:18,690 --> 01:24:21,570
hearsay on what is truth, factual, and not.

1012
01:24:21,850 --> 01:24:26,630
I think the intent is important that we need to be following certain practices,

1013
01:24:26,630 --> 01:24:32,690
practices, best practices, and federal regulations, which we all can agree that that's the case.

1014
01:24:33,230 --> 01:24:38,670
But if we are just going to start picking out things to have these discussions on, I would like to ask that we

1015
01:24:38,670 --> 01:24:44,810
have an investigation or an analysis prior to bringing it to an open form and airing this out to those

1016
01:24:44,810 --> 01:24:49,390
who may not understand this type of business and think that something is going on that is not.

1017
01:24:50,670 --> 01:24:53,690
And I will say that we will gladly consider that in the future,

1018
01:24:53,690 --> 01:24:56,410
I will also suggest that I too have an open door policy.

1019
01:24:56,610 --> 01:24:59,970
Any one of you could have called, we could have had conversations leading up to this.

1020
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:29,980
And I didn't receive any phone calls. Furthermore, we can say that I would welcome third party analysis for some of this work because I think that would be very helpful, not no offense to you all, but I think it's hard to say as an employee of an individual, hey, I do need additional PPE and I've asked for it five times and I don't get it, or I don't want to get in this whole, or I don't want to go out on the shift today and to say that higher-ups or, you know,

1021
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:37,160
media areas may be creating situations and environments that aren't conducive for whistleblowers.

1022
01:25:37,460 --> 01:25:39,620
I think that is an opportunity for us.

1023
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:43,660
So I hope that that up is a great potential opportunity to move forward with legislators

1024
01:25:43,660 --> 01:25:48,060
to message legislation and see what else we can add there to help protect employees and

1025
01:25:48,060 --> 01:25:48,980
our own enthusiasm.

1026
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:52,000
I was just going to say, well, make sure we hold that one today so that's fine.

1027
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:55,860
Look and make sure that we've addressed safety issues in another area of people can report.

1028
01:25:56,260 --> 01:25:57,040
I think that's great.

1029
01:25:57,040 --> 01:26:05,000
So, thank you all, if without any other business before the committee, all right, at 12.05, we're adjourned, isn't that?