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>> good afternoon, everyone

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times 12, 0, 1, call us notice

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being the order is going to

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kind of divert into

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introductions and restart

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last out with smart local 4.35

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sheet metal workers and also

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the president of north florida,

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building construction trades

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council

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jay palooza city council

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district 7.

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>> shannen, michaela sauce,

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office of general counsel.

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>> excellent. So obviously we

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told other council members this

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one by we had a pretty good

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coalition. Last time we were

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here, I thought, right? We had

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we had a good bipartisan group.

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a committee meeting just ended

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not too long ago and we have

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another committee meeting at

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one. So a few folks may trickle

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in, but I really wanted to kind

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of get just

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back to basics on what we we

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initially had a bill that I

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thought was a pretty good spot.

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but then we had illegal a look

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at the finals for stuff over

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there.

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>> we have a we had some some

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legal issues because of a

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>> a court case rate and could

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be my kind of diving in the

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midst of ghost.

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>> thank you, chair for

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donnelly.

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>> the it's the florida

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statutes. It's section 2.55,

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9, 9, 2, public works projects,

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including as

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ended

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in 2025.

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>> the court case was out of

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saint pete and it went to the

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district court

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and the appellate court ended.

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what was most notable there is

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that the state of florida filed

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an amicus brief, a kiss and a

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kiss. You can go either way but

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amicus brief, which is

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for briefs. It's actually quite

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brief. It's only a few pages

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because it is pretty darn clear

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that florida statues to 55,

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0, 9, 9, 2, prohibits the

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mandating of

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having

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apprenticeships in the case was

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about apprenticeships and and

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another form of staffing.

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any any effort for the

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jacksonville for the city of

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jacksonville to mandate

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apprentice ships with in public

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works comments will violate

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2.55. 0, 9, 9, 2, and there's

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already

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case on it and I'm mika spree

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floating.

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if you want information on the

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saint pete case, I can give you

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those specifics or just send it

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to you.

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but ultimately the when it came

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back down from the the dca,

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the local court struck the

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provisions at the saint pete

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ordinance as null and void

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unconstitutional.

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so

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>> man, it's cannot mandate

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something. I think we kind of

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knew, okay. We're trying to

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model something here. That's

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less about a mandate. More

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about

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maybe a goal.

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so

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mike had a bill that was passed

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a year or so ago.

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is that bill? And that and that

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bill is for you.

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>> it's for partnerships.

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turner was right. It provides

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it provides a procurement code

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update

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that says if you're going to do

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procurement

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right for certain public works

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projects that it encourages.

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>> local a local business right

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within the 5 county area.

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how has that affected by by

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this last bill? We know.

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>> I am here to speak on a par

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to ships. I

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without further review look at

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any other provisions, but I'm

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here to speak on

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apprenticeships and thus ap

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cases on a print editions.

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so I guess my you want them in

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court.

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>> yeah, we're well aware of

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that. The state is not gonna

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let you put any kind of

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requirements on anything and

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we're well aware of that case

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there.

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this whole process. We knew

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that and our is our stance is

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if we can get aspirational

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goals,

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you there's city has goals.

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when it comes to jace abs and

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stuff like that. I don't know

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where this requirement came is

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never been about requirements

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about, you know, a goal.

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so the city is going to fund

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the project. I think the city

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has every right to ask for

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goals within a project.

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>> I guess for the purposes of

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the reason light and brought

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them like a thing like a bills

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that I would the what if we

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added to that procurement code.

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>> to have aspiration goals for

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partnerships.

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>> do we think that that could

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be that they can thread the

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needle?

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>> if an aspirational goal then

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affects the bid process,

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you run afoul of to 55. 0,

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9, 9, to 2.

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>> the

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4 actually to see

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you cannot

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prohibit a contract or

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subcontract subcontractor

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material supply. Rick center of

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submitting a bid on the public

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works project. So if you affect

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the bid based on an

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aspirational goal, that's

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that's a mandate.

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so

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you can do incentives, you can

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do goals, but it cannot affect

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the ranking or the submission

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of the bid in the rfp process.

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>> 2 candy bowls. So you see

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said we could do incentives.

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you can do goals, but I just

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can't. So how does one have a

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goal that doesn't affect the

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bid process?

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>> is the hard part

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because you can have goals but

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how do you enforce your goals?

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how are you incentivizing your

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goals? If if enforcing your

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goal affects the bid process,

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that's a mandate. That's not a

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goal.

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>> during the peak herrmann

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process or when they're looking

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at the businesses of their

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scoring of how they score each

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individual contract is not know

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is not always low bid.

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could that be part of the whole

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process to you know, whether

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some gets 2 points or

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something? I know what the

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jaguar, you know, when they did

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their of maybe they did on a

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point system. If the if the

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contractor had apprentices,

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they they scored so many points

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that they're a local

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contractor. They scored so many

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points. So I'm just wondering

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how that could fit into this.

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>> I'm happy to look at

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whatever language you want to

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propose, but kind of off the

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cuff. I I would have to

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actually see the language

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this statute hard.

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>> somewhat. I mean, could we

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even just

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we can't even like mandate that

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somebody tells us

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intend to hire

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apprenticeships? You know,

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I mean, like I mean, I'm trying

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to see like on that matrix

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second, they say, like, you

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know, would

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not that it would change the

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scoring. But even if give,

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it gives us data to know

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how many projects are are being

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done by folks that are have

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apprenticeships.

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>> is that something that we

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cannot just like?

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do you intend to use one

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and have it not be a part of

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the scoring?

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>> I would have to and would

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like to consult with the

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chairman and government

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operations because that's a

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whole different body of law.

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what where here about today is

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whether or not you can mandate

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apprentices within public works

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contracts in percent a chapter

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to 55. You know.

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>> the other party is okay.

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so let's say there's

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incentives.

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what look at that incentive

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look like like if you are a

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share, a business that does

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higher.

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have you seen this in other

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counties and or municipalities,

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you know, 10% or 20% of our of

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our workforce going to be

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apprentices. So you get an

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extra?

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>> I understand it is when they

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come to the table and ask for

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incentives and that would give

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the city a chance to okay we

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can do the incentives, but we'd

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like to see this bill.

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it is. I don't know if that's

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the correct terminology every.

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but when we talk about

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incentives, the city council

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just passed the stan for

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service act. How is that being

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a, you know,

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how could that play into this?

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if we just look stan for

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service but stand for

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apprenticeship? I don't.

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I'm just I don't know the

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difference. 22.

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>> my understanding that that

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wasn't it's an incentive.

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and how does that incentive

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work? I'm sorry.

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>> I'm sorry. I I I don't I did

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not write the bill. I'm not

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here on the bill. I was here to

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answer this one question.

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happy to go look it up and pull

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it and read it. But I did look

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it up about a month ago and it

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was an incentive.

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>> so, yeah, I mean to that.

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and if we model

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folks coming in for an actual

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city incentives, what you're

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saying is they go through an

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economic development now,

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then we just write, I don't

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know if we pass. I think that's

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every independent or every

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individual.

292
00:09:49,150 --> 00:09:50,100
he's a legislation that comes

293
00:09:50,100 --> 00:09:51,240
before us that we do try to

294
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,170
negotiate that order. We like

295
00:09:53,170 --> 00:09:56,770
try to pass a resolution to

296
00:09:56,900 --> 00:09:58,900
tell the administration

297
00:10:00,850 --> 00:10:02,850
or any any

298
00:10:03,150 --> 00:10:04,190
anyone coming to get an

299
00:10:04,190 --> 00:10:06,190
economic incentive that

300
00:10:08,730 --> 00:10:09,870
I think there's 2 things.

301
00:10:09,870 --> 00:10:11,500
I think one city funded

302
00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:12,540
projects, something.

303
00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:14,590
>> give a procurement and see

304
00:10:14,590 --> 00:10:16,820
how other either putting their

305
00:10:16,820 --> 00:10:18,690
jace it goes in there. If

306
00:10:18,690 --> 00:10:20,180
that's something that we could

307
00:10:20,180 --> 00:10:22,790
taylor it off of or if in if an

308
00:10:22,790 --> 00:10:23,900
individual comes for an

309
00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:26,120
incentive, then that would be

310
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,960
an individual project

311
00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,360
agreement. I would think.

312
00:10:32,450 --> 00:10:33,950
>> I'm wondering if the jason

313
00:10:33,950 --> 00:10:35,470
process is available to us

314
00:10:35,470 --> 00:10:36,720
right now. I think based on

315
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,260
this what this ruling does

316
00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:40,720
court ruling, I think that

317
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,250
might be something that we're

318
00:10:42,250 --> 00:10:43,500
concerned about.

319
00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:45,320
>> with a court ruling is again

320
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:46,950
requirements. We've always

321
00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:48,300
known we will not get

322
00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:49,480
requirements. The state will

323
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,790
not those new requirements.

324
00:10:51,790 --> 00:10:52,810
they believe in small

325
00:10:52,810 --> 00:10:53,800
government. Do you want to do

326
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,410
something less than 9? You're

327
00:10:55,410 --> 00:10:57,290
preaching to the choir.

328
00:10:57,290 --> 00:10:59,290
you know?

329
00:11:03,130 --> 00:11:04,400
>> the idea of doing each

330
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:05,970
independent

331
00:11:05,970 --> 00:11:07,440
incentive.

332
00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,430
>> right for once and some

333
00:11:09,430 --> 00:11:10,480
color and was almost double in

334
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,430
the lower house, right?

335
00:11:12,430 --> 00:11:13,880
I think each one coming before

336
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,220
us. We can maybe add that into

337
00:11:15,220 --> 00:11:17,620
the legislation. I'm actually

338
00:11:17,710 --> 00:11:18,910
carry

339
00:11:18,910 --> 00:11:21,000
its an agreement between us and

340
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,110
amazon

341
00:11:22,110 --> 00:11:26,310
and not so much a mandate by.

342
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,270
so at the end of the question,

343
00:11:29,270 --> 00:11:31,270
yeah, okay.

344
00:11:31,860 --> 00:11:33,660
you cannot put it in code that

345
00:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,540
it is a mandate. Sure.

346
00:11:35,540 --> 00:11:37,400
>> your individual in your

347
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,400
individual negotiations are

348
00:11:39,610 --> 00:11:40,880
separate and apart from that.

349
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,000
but you cannot put it in the

350
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:42,860
code.

351
00:11:42,860 --> 00:11:45,260
>> that all, you know,

352
00:11:45,910 --> 00:11:47,770
>> builders of which its must

353
00:11:47,770 --> 00:11:50,170
have 10% apprentice in order

354
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,230
for your bid to be

355
00:11:53,230 --> 00:11:55,230
considered.

356
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,000
>> so can we

357
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:04,210
I mean, I could the could

358
00:12:04,210 --> 00:12:06,850
ability past to kind of

359
00:12:06,850 --> 00:12:08,330
the resin. That's one thing.

360
00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:10,720
a resolution saying it's the

361
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:12,330
it's the intent of the city

362
00:12:12,330 --> 00:12:13,500
council or the intent of the

363
00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:14,920
city of jacksonville, that

364
00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,920
future incentives

365
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,600
should have some kind of

366
00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:22,850
aspirational goal for princes

367
00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:24,850
moving forward.

368
00:12:32,430 --> 00:12:34,640
just as a statement that city

369
00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:36,640
council,

370
00:12:37,930 --> 00:12:38,990
I would really have to look at

371
00:12:38,990 --> 00:12:40,990
that.

372
00:12:41,730 --> 00:12:42,580
I mean, at the very least,

373
00:12:42,580 --> 00:12:43,730
it's a resolution kind of

374
00:12:43,730 --> 00:12:45,300
declaring like

375
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:46,840
from now on any major

376
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:47,970
incentives, it comes to need to

377
00:12:47,970 --> 00:12:49,970
consider princes

378
00:12:50,530 --> 00:12:52,270
precious

379
00:12:52,270 --> 00:12:54,710
as for the stan for service

380
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:57,100
act. And I just saw I'm going

381
00:12:57,100 --> 00:12:58,180
to put her on the spot on the

382
00:12:58,180 --> 00:12:59,310
record here. Just some mist

383
00:12:59,310 --> 00:13:01,310
norris won.

384
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:03,190
is there a city familiar with

385
00:13:03,190 --> 00:13:04,420
the standard service act and

386
00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:05,430
what the provisions were in

387
00:13:05,430 --> 00:13:07,660
that in terms of what we give

388
00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:10,120
to a business that is

389
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,380
hiring more veterans are I

390
00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:13,600
think it was military spouses

391
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,600
as well.

392
00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:23,300
could the green.

393
00:13:23,230 --> 00:13:24,830
>> runners to the mayor's

394
00:13:24,830 --> 00:13:26,210
office hoping the same

395
00:13:26,210 --> 00:13:27,340
preference for economic

396
00:13:27,340 --> 00:13:28,860
development that we have to

397
00:13:28,860 --> 00:13:30,420
defer downtown. But again,

398
00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:31,990
I think it was very much

399
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:33,620
aspirational. We cannot mandate

400
00:13:33,620 --> 00:13:35,580
and we can track it.

401
00:13:35,580 --> 00:13:37,390
>> but was that wasn't

402
00:13:37,390 --> 00:13:38,410
ordinance. Covid wasn't a

403
00:13:38,410 --> 00:13:40,410
resolution.

404
00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:45,180
>> understood.

405
00:13:45,590 --> 00:13:48,350
and it speaks of incentives,

406
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:50,170
section one and the incentives

407
00:13:50,170 --> 00:13:53,170
and programs authorized here by

408
00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:57,000
meaning if a company comes to

409
00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,510
aspirin centers,

410
00:13:58,510 --> 00:14:00,550
not that we could

411
00:14:00,550 --> 00:14:02,120
because I would love nothing

412
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,580
more than if we could have a

413
00:14:03,580 --> 00:14:04,960
fund that would properly

414
00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:06,700
incentivize folks who go

415
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:08,970
through the process. I just

416
00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:10,540
don't know if with the city

417
00:14:10,540 --> 00:14:11,510
council for that, nor do I

418
00:14:11,510 --> 00:14:12,460
mean, it's why was hoping I

419
00:14:12,460 --> 00:14:13,360
would have other folks here

420
00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:15,280
because even some of the u haul

421
00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,560
the credit where credit's due.

422
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:18,600
so my colleagues think

423
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:19,800
differently than I do and they

424
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:20,310
have another

425
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:22,500
other source of funding for

426
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:24,450
something like this. But like I

427
00:14:24,450 --> 00:14:26,330
personally would have no issue

428
00:14:26,330 --> 00:14:28,340
if we went through the did,

429
00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:29,860
you know, big pick aaron system

430
00:14:29,860 --> 00:14:31,520
for procurement general.

431
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,500
and we said

432
00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:35,100
after a bit is awarded, you

433
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:36,660
know, hey, you're gonna build

434
00:14:36,660 --> 00:14:37,790
this thing. Are you going to do

435
00:14:37,790 --> 00:14:38,650
here? You can build a fire

436
00:14:38,650 --> 00:14:40,580
station if you hire 10%.

437
00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:41,790
you know, we'll give you this

438
00:14:41,790 --> 00:14:43,260
incentive that the city would

439
00:14:43,260 --> 00:14:44,140
actually give some sort of

440
00:14:44,140 --> 00:14:47,140
incentive and I don't know,

441
00:14:49,390 --> 00:14:50,610
but another revenue stream

442
00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:51,580
without a come from going into

443
00:14:51,580 --> 00:14:52,500
stores.

444
00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:53,580
>> it might even have to be a

445
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:54,860
revenue stream. We are crafting

446
00:14:54,860 --> 00:14:56,140
an rfp. You're setting forth.

447
00:14:56,140 --> 00:14:57,110
the requirements are what you

448
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:58,890
can score applicants. So one of

449
00:14:58,890 --> 00:15:00,330
the requirements to favor

450
00:15:00,330 --> 00:15:01,780
people certainly ripple

451
00:15:01,780 --> 00:15:03,470
forever. You can get more

452
00:15:03,470 --> 00:15:04,740
points and their for their work

453
00:15:04,740 --> 00:15:06,470
at the business.

454
00:15:06,470 --> 00:15:07,970
so that incentive is that you

455
00:15:07,970 --> 00:15:09,970
in the rfp.

456
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:11,270
>> that's what I think we would

457
00:15:11,270 --> 00:15:12,260
love to have. I don't think

458
00:15:12,260 --> 00:15:13,340
we're allowed to do that.

459
00:15:13,340 --> 00:15:14,910
I'm saying now the after year

460
00:15:14,910 --> 00:15:17,800
awarded that we would say

461
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:18,230
if you demonstrate that you

462
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:20,520
hire 20%, I would have to

463
00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:21,640
defer.

464
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,170
>> to chief procurement,

465
00:15:23,170 --> 00:15:24,210
dustin freeman, who I think

466
00:15:24,210 --> 00:15:25,450
would be a good resource on

467
00:15:25,450 --> 00:15:26,860
this. We have in the past

468
00:15:26,860 --> 00:15:27,840
issued rfp 3 gave preference to

469
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,280
those that had office locations

470
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:30,390
in both

471
00:15:30,390 --> 00:15:31,740
tallahassee and jacksonville.

472
00:15:31,740 --> 00:15:33,290
so there are

473
00:15:33,290 --> 00:15:34,440
in the current process, their

474
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,970
first inspections that are

475
00:15:35,970 --> 00:15:38,380
required. But I think there's

476
00:15:38,380 --> 00:15:39,900
the flexibility on what can go

477
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:41,200
in those sections. So you can

478
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,570
ask for because you're the one

479
00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:44,180
who wants a requirement.

480
00:15:44,180 --> 00:15:46,980
>> I I think some of those

481
00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:47,930
things that we had done in the

482
00:15:47,930 --> 00:15:49,450
past or are questionable right

483
00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:50,880
now, there's legal standing to

484
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:52,880
allow for that.

485
00:15:52,890 --> 00:15:53,790
I think that's the concern.

486
00:15:53,790 --> 00:15:55,700
I mean, if we could, we could

487
00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:55,940
just do that and we can

488
00:15:55,940 --> 00:15:57,560
actually put them to code.

489
00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,700
I would do that right now.

490
00:15:58,700 --> 00:15:59,580
I want to make sure that we're

491
00:15:59,580 --> 00:16:01,300
not gonna get you talked with

492
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:02,940
chief freeman on this. We have

493
00:16:02,940 --> 00:16:03,890
actually we had a conversation

494
00:16:03,890 --> 00:16:05,890
with 2 months ago.

495
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:07,720
>> that's and that's what

496
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:08,880
that's what I was going on.

497
00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,870
there is scoring process that

498
00:16:10,870 --> 00:16:12,400
we thought that could be an

499
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:14,400
avenue

500
00:16:14,750 --> 00:16:16,680
agree. I think that. But I

501
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,140
think that's what

502
00:16:18,140 --> 00:16:19,200
I think. Ideally, that is what

503
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,370
we want.

504
00:16:20,370 --> 00:16:22,480
I think with our attorneys

505
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,880
telling us is that

506
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,880
it might be on lines

507
00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:34,690
that is going to come down to

508
00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:36,690
policy wording. Your

509
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,840
going to recommend

510
00:16:38,980 --> 00:16:40,290
whether or not that can be

511
00:16:40,290 --> 00:16:42,690
woven in or not.

512
00:16:43,470 --> 00:16:44,910
>> incentives are not tied to

513
00:16:44,910 --> 00:16:47,930
our fees, so are tied to the

514
00:16:47,930 --> 00:16:50,490
bed. So it's there's a lot more

515
00:16:50,490 --> 00:16:52,420
to it that the answer to the

516
00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:54,820
question of can you

517
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,440
can you legislate mandate

518
00:16:58,310 --> 00:17:00,220
apprenticeships as a percentage

519
00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:01,620
of public works contracts in

520
00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:03,380
the city of jacksonville

521
00:17:03,380 --> 00:17:05,250
and comply with florida

522
00:17:05,250 --> 00:17:07,250
statutes chapter 2.55.

523
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,850
>> again, providing awaiting of

524
00:17:10,850 --> 00:17:13,150
scoring as a type of mandate is

525
00:17:13,150 --> 00:17:15,550
what you're basically saying.

526
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:17,230
>> as I sit here, that would be

527
00:17:17,230 --> 00:17:19,400
my opinion. But I'd want to dig

528
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:20,210
a little deeper because it's

529
00:17:20,210 --> 00:17:22,610
kind of outside what

530
00:17:22,990 --> 00:17:24,360
those words are on here.

531
00:17:24,360 --> 00:17:25,560
but there's some pretty close

532
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,260
ports.

533
00:17:27,260 --> 00:17:29,140
>> I mean, if that's if we feel

534
00:17:29,140 --> 00:17:30,500
confident that I'm not

535
00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:31,950
confident if we feel is that we

536
00:17:31,950 --> 00:17:32,760
have enough wiggle room,

537
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,240
I'm perfectly happy find that

538
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,800
bill. And I think that it would

539
00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:37,360
be supported by her colleagues.

540
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:38,500
I think the mike a bill kind of

541
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:39,940
speaks to that

542
00:17:39,940 --> 00:17:42,940
on local preference. I think

543
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:44,790
customer allen's bill kind of

544
00:17:44,790 --> 00:17:46,790
speaks to that.

545
00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:49,380
I would have no problem

546
00:17:49,380 --> 00:17:52,180
moving that. I just understand

547
00:17:52,180 --> 00:17:55,900
what you see may have from it

548
00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:57,900
from a policy perspective.

549
00:17:57,900 --> 00:17:58,600
I would. And I think that that

550
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,390
would be fun. And I'd be happy

551
00:18:01,390 --> 00:18:02,930
to

552
00:18:02,930 --> 00:18:04,200
talk to our litigators to see

553
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,200
if they're confident.

554
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:08,640
>> I'm not familiar with all

555
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,680
the types of different grants

556
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,900
the city does, but I know,

557
00:18:11,900 --> 00:18:12,560
you know, always hear

558
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,900
completion grants, rembrandt's

559
00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:16,410
everything. But if there was a

560
00:18:16,410 --> 00:18:17,390
way when you talk about

561
00:18:17,390 --> 00:18:18,960
finances or whatever, if it's

562
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,530
that the money's there, if

563
00:18:20,530 --> 00:18:21,940
there was a way to move some of

564
00:18:21,940 --> 00:18:23,240
that money to the front end of

565
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:24,700
it because there's never

566
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:25,340
nothing there for the

567
00:18:25,340 --> 00:18:26,690
construction of it. It's always

568
00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:27,440
there when it comes when

569
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:28,980
they're complete or to bring in

570
00:18:28,980 --> 00:18:31,000
jobs, too. The jacksonville,

571
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,390
there's some grants there,

572
00:18:32,390 --> 00:18:33,310
but there's never nothing on

573
00:18:33,310 --> 00:18:34,410
the front end for the

574
00:18:34,410 --> 00:18:35,810
construction side of it.

575
00:18:35,810 --> 00:18:36,750
so with that, some of that

576
00:18:36,750 --> 00:18:38,370
movie are some some of that

577
00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:39,970
money could be moved to the

578
00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:41,280
front end of it through one of

579
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,460
the grant processes that might

580
00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:46,740
be a an id or way. Also,

581
00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:48,440
somebody could ask for a

582
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,700
different kind of incentive.

583
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:51,240
>> so are you suggesting then

584
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:52,520
sort of just being a completion

585
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,160
grant? Let's say it's a

586
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,810
7 million are completing grant

587
00:18:55,810 --> 00:18:57,780
that we open it up to them,

588
00:18:57,780 --> 00:18:58,790
getting a million of it up

589
00:18:58,790 --> 00:19:00,900
front. If they commit to a

590
00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:01,500
certain number. If they hit

591
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,650
that goal, that would be ideal.

592
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:07,600
there's a fascinating might be.

593
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:11,200
but my face policy question and

594
00:19:11,730 --> 00:19:12,680
I don't know what the appetite

595
00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:13,860
would be for some like that.

596
00:19:13,860 --> 00:19:14,680
and the reason why we love

597
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:16,120
completion grants is obviously

598
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:17,760
you do the work. I think we've

599
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,640
been burned in the past on

600
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,350
upfront cash before I was a

601
00:19:22,350 --> 00:19:23,720
city council member

602
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,870
and the 2, thousands and and

603
00:19:25,870 --> 00:19:27,940
stuff like that. Do you want to

604
00:19:27,940 --> 00:19:29,990
weigh in on that?

605
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:31,990
I do not

606
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,920
got your good lawyer.

607
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,800
>> that's an interest. And I

608
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:40,280
like that really is something I

609
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,400
need to get the temperature my

610
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,940
my colleagues to see. I see the

611
00:19:43,940 --> 00:19:45,100
value of that. That's an

612
00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:46,150
interesting one. You're not

613
00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:47,760
asking for more which I'm

614
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,980
trying to. If it's there,

615
00:19:49,980 --> 00:19:51,400
it just depends when they get

616
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,400
it.

617
00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:56,870
I would also assume that

618
00:19:59,590 --> 00:20:01,470
that still doesn't change code.

619
00:20:01,470 --> 00:20:02,590
it's just sort of an internal

620
00:20:02,590 --> 00:20:04,590
policy decision.

621
00:20:06,510 --> 00:20:08,970
I promise I'm not sick that I

622
00:20:08,970 --> 00:20:10,360
think that would be just the

623
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:12,360
administration slash economic

624
00:20:13,140 --> 00:20:14,290
developments last downtown

625
00:20:14,290 --> 00:20:15,760
investment authority. We need

626
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,650
to have internal policy where,

627
00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:18,900
you know, whatever whatever

628
00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:20,790
incentive deals we do, this is

629
00:20:20,790 --> 00:20:22,310
an option that is available to

630
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:23,390
the developer. Again, not a

631
00:20:23,390 --> 00:20:25,390
mandate

632
00:20:25,830 --> 00:20:28,230
second. Yeah, or requirements

633
00:20:28,340 --> 00:20:30,340
are requirement

634
00:20:30,750 --> 00:20:32,870
if they commit that. That is

635
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:34,100
because by all those get voted

636
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:36,100
on by city council. So any

637
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:37,900
anything that's completion

638
00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:38,430
grand, including many of our

639
00:20:38,430 --> 00:20:40,330
red grants as well.

640
00:20:40,330 --> 00:20:41,500
but that really is just sort of

641
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:43,900
an internal policy coming.

642
00:20:47,970 --> 00:20:49,360
so

643
00:20:49,360 --> 00:20:52,360
>> in reflecting some on your

644
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:54,320
suggestion for a resolution

645
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,600
that it would be the city of

646
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:57,960
jacksonville policy. I still

647
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:58,950
think you're going to be

648
00:20:58,950 --> 00:21:00,950
running afoul when the tech not

649
00:21:00,950 --> 00:21:02,780
mandating not incentivizing but

650
00:21:02,780 --> 00:21:04,710
mandating

651
00:21:04,710 --> 00:21:06,900
you're still there run afoul of

652
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:08,900
chapter 2.55. For statutes

653
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,110
because the statute on its face

654
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:12,760
does not read. I mean, this

655
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:13,790
policy may not pass an

656
00:21:13,790 --> 00:21:15,270
ordinance. A municipality may

657
00:21:15,270 --> 00:21:18,280
not pass a law. It reads that a

658
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,150
municipality may not take the

659
00:21:20,150 --> 00:21:22,300
following act shin's. So if you

660
00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:24,200
do that by internal regulation

661
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,740
or by our code, it comes to the

662
00:21:26,740 --> 00:21:29,350
same offense. It is an internal

663
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:31,800
regulation that this is we do

664
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:32,470
mandate this, but we're just

665
00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:34,100
not putting it in the code.

666
00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:35,670
you're still looking at a

667
00:21:35,670 --> 00:21:37,120
violation of florida statutes

668
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:38,870
that is super right to be

669
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:40,380
litigated because that amicus

670
00:21:40,380 --> 00:21:42,780
brief can file anywhere.

671
00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:44,380
>> all that to say, though,

672
00:21:44,380 --> 00:21:45,580
I think what I'm what I'm

673
00:21:45,580 --> 00:21:47,800
requesting, is that still not a

674
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,200
mandate so much as it is.

675
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,270
you get

676
00:21:50,270 --> 00:21:51,590
a different type of incentive.

677
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:53,520
if you do this, do we deem that

678
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,530
has a mandate or do we think

679
00:21:54,530 --> 00:21:56,530
that that is

680
00:21:56,580 --> 00:21:58,000
still kind of what we already

681
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,380
do in many cases?

682
00:22:00,380 --> 00:22:01,370
>> the incentive is an

683
00:22:01,370 --> 00:22:03,770
incentive. You're you're this

684
00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:05,300
is the contract. This is what

685
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:06,460
you have to do to qualify for

686
00:22:06,460 --> 00:22:07,390
the contract. Those in the

687
00:22:07,390 --> 00:22:08,910
mandates

688
00:22:08,910 --> 00:22:09,950
once you qualify for that

689
00:22:09,950 --> 00:22:11,610
contract and you're not being

690
00:22:11,610 --> 00:22:13,260
your bid is not being affected

691
00:22:13,260 --> 00:22:15,660
by, hey, if you,

692
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:19,400
you know, contractor agreed to

693
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,720
do this, we will do this extra

694
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,120
money. You that's different.

695
00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:26,350
you can't I

696
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:27,920
it's going to come down to the

697
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,450
nouns and verbs

698
00:22:29,450 --> 00:22:30,790
and it whether you do it is

699
00:22:30,790 --> 00:22:33,140
internal policy or an external.

700
00:22:33,140 --> 00:22:35,150
what I mean by external as part

701
00:22:35,150 --> 00:22:37,100
of code

702
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:38,140
you,

703
00:22:38,140 --> 00:22:39,970
the city of jacksonville may

704
00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:41,200
not

705
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,500
for the event.

706
00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:45,360
>> require control. The term is

707
00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:46,640
require that a contractor or

708
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:48,800
subcontractor, eccentric

709
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:49,970
cetera, quote, control

710
00:22:49,970 --> 00:22:51,830
staffing. That's the apprentice

711
00:22:51,830 --> 00:22:54,250
part now is exactly what was at

712
00:22:54,250 --> 00:22:56,800
issue in st. Petersburg.

713
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,400
and it was it was considered

714
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,560
no at initiation to those code

715
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,200
provisions are off the books

716
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,420
so controlling of staffing,

717
00:23:07,700 --> 00:23:10,700
terrible turn, control limit or

718
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:14,360
expand staffing. It is to be

719
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:16,360
through to 55. 0, 9, 9, 2,

720
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,160
2, b, 3,

721
00:23:21,390 --> 00:23:23,390
she's.

722
00:23:24,730 --> 00:23:26,260
>> I think, again, if it's if

723
00:23:26,260 --> 00:23:27,390
it's an incentive that somebody

724
00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:28,780
is asking for, I think the city

725
00:23:28,780 --> 00:23:31,300
has every right to ask for

726
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:32,120
things at that point.

727
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:34,220
>> so so on on comfortable

728
00:23:34,220 --> 00:23:36,700
doing that, however, I do

729
00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:38,500
based on the based on the word

730
00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:40,440
of control,

731
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:41,910
I can see them saying they come

732
00:23:41,910 --> 00:23:43,800
here, do you even by virtue of

733
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,000
this incentive, you're still

734
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:46,270
probably still providing some

735
00:23:46,270 --> 00:23:47,970
kind of controlling mechanism.

736
00:23:47,970 --> 00:23:49,440
>> if if they're coming to the

737
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:50,770
state through into the city,

738
00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:52,300
just like the jaguars, the

739
00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:53,780
jaguars, you know, they they

740
00:23:53,780 --> 00:23:55,800
had agreed to the terms.

741
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:56,400
I don't. No, you're not

742
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,770
control. And at that point,

743
00:23:57,770 --> 00:23:59,770
they are agree.

744
00:23:59,970 --> 00:24:01,170
that's why I think that it's

745
00:24:01,170 --> 00:24:03,600
it's doable. I just wonder if

746
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,430
I can pass a

747
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:06,990
ordinance code or for just get

748
00:24:06,990 --> 00:24:08,990
internal policy

749
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:12,260
changes within the city.

750
00:24:12,260 --> 00:24:14,200
I'm out of with with al

751
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:15,760
peterson returns.

752
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:17,760
>> it was tough.

753
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,150
>> when mr found is referencing

754
00:24:22,150 --> 00:24:24,800
is

755
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:25,890
outside projects. The florida

756
00:24:25,890 --> 00:24:27,580
statutes refer to public works

757
00:24:27,580 --> 00:24:29,790
projects. So I do think what he

758
00:24:29,790 --> 00:24:32,190
is suggesting is possible

759
00:24:32,450 --> 00:24:33,460
because that's exactly what we

760
00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:34,500
do with the stan for service

761
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:36,280
act is when someone is coming

762
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:37,220
to the city to develop

763
00:24:37,220 --> 00:24:39,180
something on their property and

764
00:24:39,180 --> 00:24:40,570
seek an incentive for it,

765
00:24:40,570 --> 00:24:43,200
then we can put stipulations on

766
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,500
it.

767
00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:45,210
that forced to choose deal with

768
00:24:45,210 --> 00:24:47,700
city projects on city-owned

769
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:49,700
property.

770
00:24:51,820 --> 00:24:53,160
>> I'd like to hear from the

771
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,460
care it just to see how it

772
00:24:55,460 --> 00:24:56,930
could play into that. You know,

773
00:24:56,930 --> 00:24:58,370
whether to scoring process or

774
00:24:58,370 --> 00:24:59,960
whatever. I think that would be

775
00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:01,770
all city funded projects.

776
00:25:01,770 --> 00:25:03,100
I think there's a way there to

777
00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:04,380
assist. You can't mandate that

778
00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:05,770
you can't do anything like

779
00:25:05,770 --> 00:25:07,160
that.

780
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,750
>> if we feel comfortable that

781
00:25:08,750 --> 00:25:09,610
there could be some kind of

782
00:25:09,610 --> 00:25:10,920
scoring change like we like we

783
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,520
have under the game, what bill

784
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,120
that we passed like a bill,

785
00:25:18,860 --> 00:25:21,100
then I I don't see why we can

786
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:23,250
try that route is just

787
00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:24,500
and I don't want to run afoul

788
00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:25,700
of our general counsel's office

789
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:28,150
and on the gators, I'm

790
00:25:28,150 --> 00:25:29,630
perfectly fine. Moving forward

791
00:25:29,630 --> 00:25:30,600
on something involving senate

792
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,750
language. It could even

793
00:25:31,750 --> 00:25:33,740
potentially based based on the

794
00:25:33,740 --> 00:25:36,900
fact we basically did that with

795
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:38,320
the stan for service act.

796
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:39,780
I'm comfortable kind of moving

797
00:25:39,780 --> 00:25:41,780
in that direction.

798
00:25:41,910 --> 00:25:43,910
>> the

799
00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:47,220
it's interesting

800
00:25:47,220 --> 00:25:48,670
the idea of maybe giving more

801
00:25:48,670 --> 00:25:49,900
for anderson, like that is very

802
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:51,900
interesting.

803
00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:53,500
I'm going to do it. Want to put

804
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:55,500
it on paper.

805
00:25:56,660 --> 00:25:57,960
>> yeah, I think either.

806
00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:58,990
I think we've got 2 things that

807
00:25:58,990 --> 00:26:00,600
we have city funded projects

808
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:01,920
and we have a sentence, I

809
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:02,900
think, for city funded

810
00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:04,740
projects, volunteer to have a

811
00:26:04,740 --> 00:26:06,130
meeting with the chairman to

812
00:26:06,130 --> 00:26:08,840
see what can be done in the

813
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,120
senate. I think I think the

814
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:11,850
city has

815
00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:14,380
as some leeway either way.

816
00:26:14,380 --> 00:26:15,690
well, even when you and I spoke

817
00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:17,630
with procurement, I think it

818
00:26:17,630 --> 00:26:19,970
was still under the guise of.

819
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:21,100
>> yes, sure, we can do x,

820
00:26:21,100 --> 00:26:22,700
y and z still on. I don't know

821
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:25,380
if they had full legal. Do you

822
00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:26,890
see?

823
00:26:26,890 --> 00:26:28,300
>> one thing also to the you

824
00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:29,280
have to look at when he goes

825
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:30,820
out for bid, who's been I mean

826
00:26:30,820 --> 00:26:32,190
that you might not even get

827
00:26:32,190 --> 00:26:33,400
contractors have an

828
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:34,180
apprenticeship to bid just like

829
00:26:34,180 --> 00:26:35,360
on jason's, you might not have

830
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:37,210
jason's the bit. I think that

831
00:26:37,210 --> 00:26:38,800
everybody should have the

832
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,700
opportunity to bit. And then

833
00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:41,300
it's up to the individual

834
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:42,290
contractors are going to turn

835
00:26:42,290 --> 00:26:43,780
not. But if they do have a

836
00:26:43,780 --> 00:26:45,320
registered apprenticeship,

837
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,000
I think that should be

838
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,450
recognized, you know, for

839
00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:48,640
whether that be some kind of

840
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:49,750
point system or our you do

841
00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:51,750
other other programs.

842
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:55,660
>> do we have any public

843
00:26:55,660 --> 00:26:57,500
comment? Speaker cards, right?

844
00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:59,500
non great.

845
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,910
I'm happy to move forward on

846
00:27:02,910 --> 00:27:04,560
the inside of stuff

847
00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,270
and get more clarity on on

848
00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:08,270
procurement. But I

849
00:27:08,350 --> 00:27:10,570
the chairman side, I'm on very

850
00:27:10,570 --> 00:27:12,230
concerned if we

851
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:13,500
I think it should be a part of

852
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,230
the scoring, but I just want

853
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:17,230
make sure that we're not

854
00:27:17,250 --> 00:27:18,300
mr. Gill says a very good

855
00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:19,510
attorney

856
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:22,310
and I also think working with

857
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:23,980
john sawyer

858
00:27:23,980 --> 00:27:25,790
would be a good idea

859
00:27:25,790 --> 00:27:26,920
as all of our incentive deals,

860
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:28,540
all our incentive contracts.

861
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:29,620
and I've already had some

862
00:27:29,620 --> 00:27:30,810
preliminary conversations with

863
00:27:30,810 --> 00:27:32,810
him, but

864
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,210
current release of a pathway

865
00:27:35,210 --> 00:27:37,210
forward.

866
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,000
you know, if you've got

867
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,120
really shows other council

868
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:44,700
members, you know, kind of talk

869
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:45,750
to him about some of what was

870
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:46,700
discussed or today it's a

871
00:27:46,700 --> 00:27:47,920
notice beating, even talk about

872
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,620
some of the issues. I'm

873
00:27:49,620 --> 00:27:50,480
assuming a story will be

874
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:51,640
written up

875
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,390
that I think is means

876
00:27:53,390 --> 00:27:55,390
adjourned. Thank you