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I call the assembly committee of the
whole to order at 6 p.m. on June 2nd,

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2025. Mr. Steininger, would you read the
land acknowledgement, please? We would

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like to acknowledge that the city and
bureau of Juno is on click land and wish

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to honor the indigenous people of this
land. For more than 10,000 years,

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Alaskan Native people have been and
continue to be integral to the

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well-being of our community. We're
grateful to be in this place, a part of

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this community, and to honor the
culture, traditions, and resilience of a

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clinka people.

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Thank you, Mr. Shininger. Madame Clerk,
would you please call the role? Thank

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you, Mr. Chair. If I might just note
that all members are present in person.

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Thank you for being here. The quorum is
present. Thank you, madame clerk.

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Um, any changes to the
agenda? Seeing none, we'll note the

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agenda as approved. So, on to our agenda
topics. First topic, Hescoberry

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installation phase
1B/Future

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phases. A dense memo in the packet.
Um, the manager does seek some direction

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from the assembly, but manager Kuster,
start us off, please. Thank you, Deputy

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Mayor Smith. So, I have pulled together
a a very short presentation from images

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included in this memo, uh, mostly as a
way to help organize my thoughts and

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walk you guys through the memo. So, um,
uh, next slide.

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This is an image of 1A at 17 ft. So if
you recall last committee of the whole

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you gave staff direction to um continue
with installing Hesco barriers for um on

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CBJ property. It was about a a half a
million dollar project. We could do it

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relatively quickly. That project is
wrapping up. And I just want to um show

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that at 17 ft the amount of public
property that is protected there is

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significant. Um at 18 ft you're
protecting 271 parcels from inundation.

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Um so again that that that work is being
done that decision was made but uh I

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think was a you can you can see here um
the significant protection that that

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decision made. Next slide.

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So, um 1A at 18 feet does have some
downstream impacts and specifically

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there are nine homes on Meadow Lane that
would be um adversely impacted as a

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result of 1A. And so this slide just
shows how staff is working to try to

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mitigate that. And um the uh the
proposed mitigation there would be a

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3-ft tall 30 foot wide uh supersack, so
sandbag barrier across the trail that

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you see in the bottom right hand corner.
And um we believe that would prevent uh

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a lot of the water from flowing into the
neighborhood. Uh and we do have

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permission from DOT to um put that in a
temporary manner. So that would be

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something we would deploy like you know
when we know that the basin is releasing

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we would deploy those uh those
supersacks and then we would remove

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those supersacks. But but the good news
is we do feel like we have a way to

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protect not only the nine homes
adversely impacted from 1A but also the

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the remainder of the homes um in that
neighborhood approximately 30 homes in

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that neighborhood. Um so uh let's talk
about 1B because really this memo is

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about 1B.
So, at the May 12th committee of the

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whole, we also ask for input from you on
uh extending continuing to extend Hesco

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barriers all the way to Brotherhood
Bridge. And this protects 96 additional

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parcels. However, there's a lot of
housing units there. Um a lot of multif

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family housing. So, we calculated it to
be about 190 housing units. Also,

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there's a lot of commercial property
there. So, you know, commercial

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infrastructure. So, pretty high value
property that uh that that protects.

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However, extending that we don't have
time to do any armoring there and it

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needs about $1.4 million of armoring
along that uh that bank. Um so that

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would be something we would have to come
back uh next year and do. There's also a

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concern that the weight of the Hesco
barriers on that uh river bank if we did

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truly have a catastrophic event, right,
we can't guarantee that there wouldn't

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be uh be a failure there. just
installing the Hesco barriers on that

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just continuing on 1B is about an
$850,000 project and again it's on non

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CVJ eight non CVJ parcels and so you
gave us direction on May 12th to go do

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some public outreach and you know get
some more information from that affected

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area and we did meet with every one of
the property owners along there and

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everyone except for Riverview Senior
Living was amendable to putting Hesco

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barriers uh on their property. Um, you
know, the memo states that without the

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mandate of an LI, it would be difficult
to enter into people's property and, you

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know, install those barriers uh if they
didn't consent to it. I think, you know,

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we would use the same argument for um
that we have emergency powers to be able

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to do that and it and it's a very valid
argument. It's just, you know, when we

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had the LI and the buyin of all of those
residents, it it's just a stronger

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argument to be able to uh exercise those
powers. So, there's no like legal

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argument there. It it just is a stronger
a stronger sense of purpose for phase

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one and and the couple of properties
that we have had that have been not

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amendable to installing barriers.
Another challenge with phase 1B is that

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uh the armoring that it would be
required there is not on uh so the the

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the property owners that that the Hesco
barriers would have barriers on it are

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not the same property owners that would
have the armoring. So in phase one we

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were able to say hey you're
significantly benefiting from the um

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armoring so you should you should pay
more uh for four properties and those

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four properties did not object to phase
one. In this case, the the riverfront

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property is owned by a DOT and a private
property owner that owns just the sliver

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of Riverbank and and is not interested
at all in armoring that property,

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doesn't have value to them. Very
amenable to the work being done and and

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allowing us entry just is just a
challenge. It's, you know, um and it

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kind of weighs into that fairness issue
as you guys evaluate how to proceed with

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1B and who uh who pays for what. Um, so
I think I I articulated uh some of the

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cons of um 1B now and I guess another
con would be uh participating in

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financing for uh future stages and and
phase two. It could disincentivize that

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participation. I mean I made a strong
argument on May 12th that we just are

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going to have to uh count on our our
residents, you know, agreeing to

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participate in long-term solutions even
if they're uh already benefiting. And I

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think that argument is still valid. Uh
nevertheless, uh we couldn't for example

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go back and do an LI for any improvement
that has already occurred. Right? So

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like we could go back and do an LI maybe
for the armoring but not for the Hesco

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barriers because those Hesco barriers
are already installed and the

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improvement has to be before the L. So
that takes me uh to chatting a little

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bit about Oh, I'm sorry. I did do want
to mention one other thing about phase

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one uh B is there is a um kind of some
new inundation in that lower uh that

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middle square there. Uh there's just
some some new uh water that we see uh in

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like the near the Pavitz building and
those parking lots and we're still um

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working with Michael Baker to see how
that uh that property would be in

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inundated. But importantly, phase 1B
cures the and protects those metal lane

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homes that 1A adversely um impacts. So
there are there are pros and those pros

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and cons are outlined in your memo. But
I think when uh fa you can next slide.

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When I was thinking about this and
trying to kind of figure out how to

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present these different phases to you
guys, I I really thought about phase

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two. Well, we've always talked about
phase two. And I think it's hard to make

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uh you know make these incremental
decisions about phase one without

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thinking about phase two. And as
originally envisioned, we uh propose

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installing barriers all along all
populated sides of the river for phase

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two. This is um you know six months ago
when we were advocating for funding from

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uh the delegation and others. Uh that
phase two uh the cost estimate is $17

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million. That uh means it's $23.5
million for phase one and phase two. and

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you really do get a diminishing uh level
of return return on your investment the

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more you spend. So, um and I think
that's the one of the policy decisions

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that the assembly is going to have to
struggle with once we're able to give

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you of course more information that uh
with phase one 1A and 1B, you're

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protecting all but 40 homes in a 17t
event. And there's lots of assumptions

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there, right? like what if we have an 18
event then we would uh you know

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potentially protect other homes but but
basically you know you're getting a lot

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more expensive per parcel as you uh
protect some of those outlying um

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neighborhoods. Well, those neighborhoods
are experiencing very real flooding,

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very real uh events, but you know,
there's that you you will have to weigh

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that kind of public purpose of prot
using public funds to protect the the

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most uh the most people possible. So, as
I thought about phase 1B and phase uh

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two, I really wanted to be able to bring
you guys more answers to help you make

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those decisions, which is why, you know,
when I was thinking about it, I thought

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phase 1B is obvious, but but it's also
something that it would be reasonable to

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make a a riskbased analysis and say, how
likely is an 18 foot event? Um, and can

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we mitigate for phase 1 A? Yes, we can
and delay that until next construction

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season. The reality is we are going to
know a lot more after um our yokaloop

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season this year. And frankly, the
public's going to feel um a lot more

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motivated to participate and pressure
you all for continuing flood mitigation

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if we have a a a really uh high flood
event. And if we don't, that pressure

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will probably um not exist as much. So
just to kind of walk you through my

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thought process as I spent a significant
amount of time trying to to think

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through this uh next

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slide. So the next next uh real question
that you've all been facing is what

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about View Drive? It's just a really
tough pickle. This thumb of property of

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20 properties. There's actually 22
properties, but two of them CBJ owns and

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are unoccupied. is 20 homes very close
to the lake uh makes it very their

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elevation makes it very difficult uh to
protect those properties. So um we have

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uh the

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US Mr. President mind if we ask
questions right now while we're

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Sure. So my understanding is that View
Drive and some of those other low-lying

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areas have flooded many more times than
the two Yakahop floods that August 623

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and August 624 that View Drive has been
flooded numerous times that were just

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high level or lower Yakal releases and
like I've been on that river View Drive

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has got like annual or bianual flooding
on it. Do we have information about how

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often View Drive was flooded prior to
this

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situation? Because they might have
already had they were already facing

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this um before the rest of the community
was facing the Yakahop is my

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understanding. It's a flooded area. Yes.
So, some homes uh on View Drive flood at

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13 ft uh and not all homes. Um, so many
of the homes have experienced uh

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repeated uh flooding. Some of the homes
have taken um mitigation measures

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themselves to help protect against that.
When you look at an 18 ft flood event on

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our interactive map, and that's a map
that you can access through the CBJ

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website. If you go to uh if you go to
the CBJ homepage, there's a there's a

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flood button, and then from there, it
takes you to the University of Alaska

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Southeast uh interactive map. And that
map is really useful because you can

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pick a flood stage and then toggle over
individual homes and areas and and do

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the depth. And so I did that before this
meeting to say, okay, at 18 feet, how

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deep is the water on View Drive? And the
answer is really varies. So there are

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some homes that are only a couple only
have a couple feet of of like in that

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image. The depth for some homes is only
a couple of feet feet. For some homes,

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it's nine feet. For some uh you know
yards, it's 12 feet. So really uh

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matters. details matter, right? But but
you are correct that some of the homes

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um on View Drive do routinely uh
experience some some water. Um in fact,

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two of the homes are in the flood way
and the flood way is a more uh difficult

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has a more rigorous level of permitting
than the flood plane. And um so when we

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talk about Hesco barriers, we're also
concerned about being able to get

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permitting and maintain our FIP status
for those particular uh those particular

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properties. Now, now that probably means
that there's some combination of

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solutions out there for Few Drive and
Army Corps of Engineers has uh directed

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some attention. and they've pulled
pulled their um principal engineer from

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the long-term solution and they are
having them look at Vue Drive and do a

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feasibility analysis for Vue Drive. I
know that uh deputy director cotch and

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uh deputy manager bar and mayor will be
meeting with you drive residents this

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week to talk about options for fug
drive. We also have uh petitioned the um

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um natural resources conservation
service for participation in a um

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program uh that uh it buyouts are one of
the solutions, but it proposes other

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solutions for homes that experience
these multiple losses and understand

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that they're looking at booking uh some
travel this summer to come and do some

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of that that analysis work. So, we're
we're really trying to, you know, figure

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out what uh what can be done with F
Drive because it really is I mean I I

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know that the um families that live
there, I'm sure are very frustrated uh

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because it because of just the elevation
and the location of Vue Drive. So,

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that's kind of the summary of View
Drive. And um I think that's my last

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slide. So, you can probably stop there.
I we'll keep talking about um how to how

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to pay for it if you guys uh with at
your discretion. Uh Chair Smith. Okay.

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Maybe we'll pause just for some
questions on inundation or things. Mr.

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Kelly,
uh thank you. Uh you are mentioning that

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the Riverview Senior Center uh would not
it is not agreeing to the uh phase 1B.

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Um, do we know what would be the impacts
like if we had hesco barriers

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everywhere but on on 1B except for
Riverview Senior Center?

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No, we haven't done modeling of
individual uh properties. I mean,

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generally speaking, that's the
continuous line is uh most effective.

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Thank you, Miss Wall.
Thank you, Chair Smith.

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Um, in your memo you talk about pros and
cons of

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1B now versus
later. You don't mention do my question

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there. There's mention here about the
core being, you know, potentially

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um challenged to help us if we're
protecting areas that

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are would be protected over 16 feet.
Do you and this is probably just a guess

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but based on your conversation with them
do you feel like we if we don't move

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forward with 1B this year we potentially
lose ability to install Hesos in 1B next

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year based on that conversation with the
core or can we do it without them I

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guess is the other part of that
question. Yeah. So, so we have not asked

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that specific question of the core.
However, we do have those barriers on

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site and we do have that preliminary
engineering done. So, uh we could do

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phase 1B without their uh technical
assistance.

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00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:08,720
Miss Candies, thank you chair. My
question is a followup kind of on the

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same topic of the core kind of being out
if it was more than 16

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feet that you know in your memo will add
to the expense if we're on our own.

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Could you speak a little bit about how
and what order of magnitude?

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Yeah. So, um if the core were not to
participate in flood mitigation for

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phase two, uh they would not be
providing the Hesco barriers uh for

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free, which is what they're providing.
And they're providing uh technical

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assistance. I I want to say the cost of
Hesco barriers would be a couple million

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dollars for phase one. I don't know if
I'm I'm getting so so let's say we phase

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one uh a $6 million project um
represented a couple million dollars of

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hesco barriers. So you could you know
let's say that $6 million in hesco

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barriers uh and of course the value of
their text technical assistance is

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harder to quantify but almost more
important because it adds that

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legitimacy to uh to any work that we're
doing. I will say, you know, this was a

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conversation that we had with um with
the Army Corps late last week. Um we

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haven't, you know, we haven't pushed
back on that because I really want to

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understand a little bit more um what
phase two looks like before we uh you

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know do before we engage in kind of that
that push and pull with um with the Army

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Corps. They've been such valuable
partners and I feel like we just need a

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lot more information ourselves to be
able to know what we're doing to be able

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to kind of have those follow-up
conversations. Uh I also think that the

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00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:54,480
event that we experienced this summer, I
mean, if we have a higher event, then

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we'll have a higher record event that we
will need their assistance with. So I I

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I'm
not stop talking. Quick followup. I

231
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:08,400
Okay, I appreciate that. And I was
thinking that it was much more the

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technical assistance piece and the
legitimacy piece and what that looks

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like to go alone. But if it's something
as clear-cut as you can't have our Hesco

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if it's over 16 ft, am I understanding
that correctly? Because that changes

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everything in here. And I didn't get
that from reading this. So are you

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00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:33,440
saying that's a conversation or a remark
that happened really recently? So you

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00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:38,600
have you need more time to see if that
is no you can't have our hesos but it

238
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:43,840
could be no you can't have our
escos from I think it could be you

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cannot have additional hesos and
additional technical assistance for

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00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:55,520
flood fighting over the historical
event. They're still providing uh

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00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:01,679
technical assistance of course for the
long-term solution.

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00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:07,760
Okay, I'll hold for and wait till we get
through this. Kelly,

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00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:11,280
just a follow up to that. Um, we you
mean say they wouldn't they wouldn't

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00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:15,039
provide hesco barriers? Like we could
still get them, but they would be at our

245
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:19,760
own expense, right? All right. Thank
you. Correct.

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00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:24,320
Manager Ker, I just had one question
from you said it. I just want to make

247
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sure I understand it and maybe for
others to hear too. You mentioned the

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00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:36,320
modeling shows with
1A which is nearing completion that it

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00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:41,760
would direct water onto certain areas of
Meadow Lane. But you believe you have a

250
00:23:39,919 --> 00:23:45,760
solution for that and that's the super
sacking near the bridge or whatever to

251
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,919
pro that would so that that would
protect those houses on Metal Lane. Is

252
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:55,280
that correct?
Correct. It would protect uh those uh

253
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nine homes that one would would impact
in addition to other homes on Meadow

254
00:23:57,120 --> 00:24:04,200
Lane.
Okay. Thank you, Miss Wall.

255
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:13,039
I remember when we were talking about
phase one and phase two and you know it

256
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:16,840
was you know the idea of phase two we
just put barriers up along the whole

257
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:21,520
river felt
like of course that was the best we

258
00:24:19,679 --> 00:24:26,120
could come up with and we didn't know
much at the time like after going

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00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:33,320
through the process
of putting these up in a strategic place

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00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:38,480
where we were protecting
ing most of the most vulnerable homes

261
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:44,360
and pushing water to the undeveloped
side. Like, do we still feel like phase

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00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:50,640
two as originally
envisioned is the

263
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:55,440
right going to be the right fit or like
do we think it'll be we need less

264
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:59,520
barriers than we thought at that point
or it's actually going to be really hard

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00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:03,360
when we get down to that lower river and
because there's properties everywhere.

266
00:25:01,679 --> 00:25:08,559
Um, do we have a sense after going
through the last year of how much that

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00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:14,960
initial proposal really reflects what we
think it would look like today?

268
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:19,760
Yeah, I think your thought process is
definitely um some of the struggles that

269
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:22,880
I have had when looking at uh you know
where do we stop right because we're

270
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:29,200
getting that diminishing level of return
and it really depends on um how severe

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00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:34,159
of an event we think we're going to get.
So if we think 17 which scientists

272
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:40,880
cannot tell us right but if we think 17
feet is a reasonable assumption then

273
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:45,360
doing phases one 1 a and 1b protect all
but but 40 homes according to our

274
00:25:43,279 --> 00:25:49,120
modeling which you know I think you'd be
hardressed to spend an additional $17

275
00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:57,039
million
uh to protect those those 40 uh 40

276
00:25:51,919 --> 00:26:00,320
homes. Um, but I think director Kotch
talks about it just like chasing water,

277
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,880
right? We're chasing water and we do
something here and then we're like, we

278
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:07,440
need to mitigate here and we need to So
there's there's likely um some

279
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:11,520
additional mitigation and additional
nuance that we can bring to you with

280
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:15,919
more time and with more engineering that
can make, you know, that can do even

281
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:20,320
better than that. Um, but there will be
a policy call that you will have to make

282
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,440
and and and you will make need to make
sure that uh you get your questions to

283
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,640
me so I can get you the questions that
you need to make that about like where's

284
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:31,679
the diminishing level of return. But
certainly when I look at the work that

285
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:38,120
we have done it I feel like we've really
done a lot uh to protect uh the menal

286
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,120
valley.

287
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:47,480
Mr. Bryson, thank you Mr. Deputy
Mayor. So, I think I just want a real

288
00:26:45,679 --> 00:26:53,559
clear
answer. If we don't do 1B now, it's

289
00:26:51,440 --> 00:27:00,679
going to be more expensive to
do on our own, end of the summer, next

290
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:06,000
summer. If we do 1B
now, while we still have everything set

291
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:12,720
up that we would have it substantial
savings like we would get Hesco barriers

292
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:17,600
or where is the split? it it become it's
not too expensive we do 1B now but it's

293
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,520
super expensive we do 1B later or am I
wrong and it's just super expensive

294
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:25,200
whenever we do
1B I know I asked a confusing question

295
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:28,919
sorry about that yeah so your I think
your question really revolves around the

296
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:33,120
efficiency of doing 1B while we're still
mobilized and I do think there's some

297
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:38,080
efficiencies there however because we
would have to come back and do armoring

298
00:27:35,279 --> 00:27:42,640
we would essentially still have to be in
that uh in that area so it may add some

299
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:50,000
project cost because you know we we will
have to kind of remob uh the the some of

300
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:55,039
the hesco barrier filling etc but um I I
don't don't see it in the in

301
00:27:52,000 --> 00:28:00,880
exponentially more costly to do the
entire project next construction season.

302
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:04,320
Okay. Thank you
Mandes.

303
00:28:02,799 --> 00:28:11,360
Thank you Mr. Chair. A follow-up
question about armoring on that front.

304
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:19,120
We say in the memo here that we don't
have time to do armoring and hescoing

305
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:26,240
this season, but we do have time to put
hesos if we wanted to on

306
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:32,960
unarmored. I know we start getting into
the season, but of course, minus the

307
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:40,720
fact that it seem to favor a specific
day, we also don't know when it's going

308
00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:47,679
to hit unless it hits green again, but
um how can you give me a sense of how

309
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:54,000
long it would take to armor if we wanted
to try to I guess I'm wondering if we

310
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:58,880
said let's armor and Tesco this season
and we'll just see if we can beat the

311
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:02,200
flood if there is because also there
could not be an event this year that's

312
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:08,960
also
possible. How much longer does that add?

313
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:14,960
Well, I think that really all depends on
contractor availability and we have

314
00:29:11,919 --> 00:29:20,240
pulled our contractors from other CBJ
jobs to be able to continue doing the um

315
00:29:18,399 --> 00:29:25,039
1A work and we we would continue to do
that for 1B. So I don't I don't have a

316
00:29:23,679 --> 00:29:28,960
good question for you that's like well
in one month we'd have it armored. I do

317
00:29:26,799 --> 00:29:33,120
know that uh the armoring goes
relatively quickly. Uh so is there a

318
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:38,080
scenario where you could authorize AR
armoring and you know hope that we could

319
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:41,679
get it done before August? Our goal is
to have all of this work done by July.

320
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:46,320
That's that's been the kind of goal that
we've been working towards. So I I

321
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:54,880
imagine that there is a scenario where
we could um you know have armoring

322
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:58,559
done at some point this this summer
given contractor availability just not a

323
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:03,760
guarantee that it would meet that July
deadline that we've set.

324
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:07,840
Okay. Thank you. So what I'm hearing if
July wasn't the deadline we could do it

325
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:12,240
this summer.
Well I I I I imagine possibly it's

326
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:17,360
possible. Yeah it's possible. Okay.
Thank you,

327
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:22,480
Mayor Welen. Uh, thank you. But if we
armored this summer without having an LI

328
00:30:20,799 --> 00:30:27,279
in place, we would have to pay for that
armor. And is there any way to collect

329
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:32,720
that money back?
Um, you are correct that if you were to

330
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:38,320
armor uh this summer, you could not use
an LI as a mechanism to uh help spread

331
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:43,360
those costs.
uh you could use a special tax district

332
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:49,640
and I could start talking about
mechanisms to pay for it. This is a good

333
00:30:45,919 --> 00:30:49,640
segue. Uh

334
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:57,520
sure. Maybe keep it brief and then we
can see which way we're going before we

335
00:30:55,440 --> 00:31:03,520
get deep. But go ahead and give us a
little overview. Thanks. Yeah. So um you

336
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:08,880
talked uh you've asked for information
on establishing a uh service area and a

337
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:14,720
service area can be established by the
assembly. The

338
00:31:10,679 --> 00:31:18,399
um 100 voters or 10% of the affected
voters uh can petition that and then it

339
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:21,279
goes to the voters. I and I think we
would get that threshold right now. So

340
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:27,039
there is a scenario where you could
decide to establish a service area and

341
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,640
use that as a mechanism to pay for uh
improvements and the assembly sets that

342
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:34,000
mill rate. I do think there are some
important questions that you would want

343
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,440
to have answered before you took that to
the voters. The first question that you

344
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:43,279
would have to have answered of course is
how big do you draw that circle? And um

345
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:46,559
as I struggle I struggled to be able to
give you the information I felt like you

346
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:50,480
would need to make that decision, you
know, in the next few months because we

347
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,919
don't know what our phase 2 project
looks like, right? We don't know what

348
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:58,000
we're committing to. We don't know what
uh and ergo we don't know what the

349
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:05,039
circle should look like. That being
said, um there's certainly a way that we

350
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:11,120
could design a um tax district and
nullify the LI to pay for those

351
00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:15,440
improvements. Um, you know, I I did a
little back of napkin math on the

352
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:22,000
assessed value of all the properties in
the 18oot inundation, and it's about um

353
00:32:18,399 --> 00:32:26,799
almost $900 million of value. One mil
gets you shy of a million dollars, but

354
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:30,880
that's protecting every single property
um that floods at 18 feet, which, you

355
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:35,200
know, I think we might struggle to do.
So, you can see how I quickly got to we

356
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:39,840
haven't made that decision yet, so this
might be difficult. And and so one

357
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:43,919
avenue that I propose is kind of
reserving that special tax district to

358
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:48,240
when we have a long-term solution, we're
going to need uh to pay for match and

359
00:32:45,919 --> 00:32:50,960
and to pay for um a lot of things
associated with the long-term solution.

360
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,159
And of course, we will know that the
long-term solution will protect

361
00:32:52,159 --> 00:32:58,240
everyone, right? Because uh because of
the nature of that solution. Um,

362
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:01,440
nevertheless, there is definitely a
scenario where you could introduce an

363
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:06,000
ordinance and we could send it back to
the cow so we could do more discussion

364
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:09,360
and make that timeline for this fall's
ballot. Uh, the memo goes into more

365
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:14,159
detail on what it would look like to do
an LI for phase two, but I won't um uh

366
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,679
belabor what that looks like since
you're all pretty familiar with the L

367
00:33:15,679 --> 00:33:18,679
process.

368
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:30,200
Um, Miss Hall, did you have a question?
Yeah, I uh have we discussed an LI for 1

369
00:33:26,799 --> 00:33:30,200
A and B.

370
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:40,559
So, we cannot do an LI for 1A because
we've already done the improvement. So,

371
00:33:38,159 --> 00:33:44,799
there's nothing to assess them. Um the
justification being it protects a lot of

372
00:33:42,799 --> 00:33:49,559
public property. It also was rel I mean
it was $500,000. So, it really was the

373
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:53,559
least expensive
um project.

374
00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:05,360
Sus Gandies and Mr. B. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. You just referenced the strategic

375
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:10,560
decision waiting to establish a service
area until you were trying to pay for a

376
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:15,599
match or something for the the longer
term solution. And I want to make sure

377
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:21,200
I'm understanding what's strategic about
that. So, you're saying in some ways you

378
00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:29,679
could make that choice because your your
entire circle is a lot larger. Is that

379
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:35,679
what you're saying? Yes.
Yes. uh there's a lot more certainty in

380
00:34:32,399 --> 00:34:38,960
that um long-term solution then and I
think the body would struggle with

381
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:42,399
drawing a circle because first you would
need to know what the project is and you

382
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:46,800
may want a different circle for like
paying for flood fighting than you would

383
00:34:44,879 --> 00:34:50,079
for paying for long-term mitigation
which will I mean long-term mitigation

384
00:34:48,240 --> 00:34:55,040
will protect to a 20 foot event. there
there's like different different

385
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,760
decision points uh and risk analysis
when you're talking about like a

386
00:34:56,399 --> 00:35:04,400
short-term solution and when you're
talking about the the solution for the

387
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:09,400
next hundred years follow
so based on that answer you it's not

388
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:16,280
just the size it's also
partly the policy argument that you're

389
00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:21,119
making to those
residents or am I wrong to read that in

390
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:29,440
Because one would be saying, "I'm
building you a levy and you live in

391
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:35,320
this. We clearly you benefit. You
benefit forever cuz I I built you a levy

392
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:41,760
and you helped pay for it
versus I'm putting up super giant

393
00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:45,680
sandbags next to your house and I feel
pretty good about it." Is that part of

394
00:35:43,839 --> 00:35:52,079
what you're saying as well? not just a
geographic size or am I misunderstanding

395
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,880
that?
Um I will

396
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:05,359
leave and easier question might be is it
purely about the size the size of the

397
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:11,599
circle?
Um I think it's about the size of the

398
00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:17,280
circle and the um project that we would
be funding with that. So, you don't need

399
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:20,920
to know the project obviously to to uh
draw those back. You can say we're going

400
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:25,440
to protect this
circle, but you kind of do cuz how do

401
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:29,280
you know what you're protecting if you
don't know what the project is that

402
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:36,160
you're funding with by drawing the
circle? So, so I think that it's

403
00:36:32,839 --> 00:36:42,320
um I think that at this moment in time
it would be a diff it would be difficult

404
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:46,400
to draw a circle but but you could draw
that circle. You could say we want the

405
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:51,280
circle to be one 1 A and 1 B manager
cast and bring us that uh ordinance at

406
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:55,359
the next meeting for introduction and
then answer these five questions at the

407
00:36:53,280 --> 00:37:01,040
next committee the whole so it's very
much doable to uh to go down that path

408
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:06,320
of course it has very different you know
payment uh implications right le every

409
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:12,320
parcel pays the same u mill rate is
assessed is you know value of your

410
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:16,800
property um median property value in in
that area. I I want to say it's

411
00:37:14,359 --> 00:37:22,560
$415,000, but of course that includes
vacant property as as well or you know,

412
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:29,280
so it's undeveloped property as well. Um
so so that piece I'm not opining on as

413
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:32,560
far as like do you do a uh le you know
and and that impact that it has on the

414
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:38,960
residents and that's very much an
assembly level uh conversation. I just

415
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:46,079
struggle to give you the the advice on
how to draw the circle.

416
00:37:41,839 --> 00:37:52,160
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Bryson.
Uh, thank you, Mr. Deputy Mayor. If we

417
00:37:49,119 --> 00:37:57,560
wanted to do something, say like add a
service area for the valley for flood

418
00:37:54,720 --> 00:38:02,280
fighting and flood future flood
protection. And one of the ballot

419
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:09,920
initiatives that capped the mill rate at
nine, would that service area be

420
00:38:05,839 --> 00:38:15,400
subjected to that 9% cap?
um which would almost like eliminate our

421
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:18,960
ability to use it.
Um I'm looking at Miss Wright because I

422
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:23,599
think that might be the question for
her.

423
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:27,359
Who else? Thank you, Assembly Member
Bryson. Yes, it would be uh subject to

424
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:33,640
that cap. The only thing that's not
subject are the geo bonds um under that

425
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:33,640
ballot initiative.

426
00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:41,359
And Mr. Kelly,
thank you. And would um you were

427
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:46,720
mentioning that some DOT properties
would be protected um since it's the

428
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:50,040
state would they I assume they don't pay
property tax.

429
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:58,960
You are correct. Okay. Uh the DOT
property would be uh we would need to

430
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:06,359
armor on DOT property
and follow up like would would they be

431
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,359
contributing anything if it was the lid?

432
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:18,320
Um I think technically you assess you we
do assess

433
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:21,520
uh state properties. I don't know what
our success has been in getting those

434
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,079
state properties to pay those
assessments. I know that I have dealt

435
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:30,880
with this a lot in a a former role and
had um you know the the state agency

436
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:35,920
kind of depends on how they participate
based on how they feel like they are

437
00:39:32,839 --> 00:39:42,000
impacted. So I think There is a scenario
where if if DOT is like that's vacant

438
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:45,920
land that you know we just have an
easement on which we have a lot of

439
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:50,560
parcels like that um that they would
make an argument that they would not

440
00:39:47,359 --> 00:39:53,720
participate in the L.
Thank you.

441
00:39:55,839 --> 00:40:03,839
I think I'm good for right now. Thanks.
Please.

442
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:09,480
Thanks Mr. Chair. Just a quick one. With
Riverview Senior Living Complex being

443
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:16,400
the only hard no out of those other
properties, we're communicating with the

444
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:20,880
out of town land owner that because they
are the one who would be paying it. We

445
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:26,560
have that reflects nothing of the
tenants living inside there or what the

446
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:31,839
families of the tenants might think.
You are correct. Thank

447
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:37,599
you. This will
That brought up a question for me and

448
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:43,119
Miss Ker, you you reflected a bit on
it's harder to make an argument without

449
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:47,040
an LI to go into that property without
their permission. Maybe this is a

450
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:53,359
question for the attorney. I imagine our
legal risk is greater given that this

451
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:59,280
area hasn't flooded to go into someone's
property to put up a to a barrier if

452
00:40:56,319 --> 00:41:06,319
we're talking about 18 feet
um instead of 16 ft. Um thank you for

453
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:10,000
that question. So I would um say that
your legal risk is the same whether

454
00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:14,680
something has flooded or not. if you
have the maps um that show it has the

455
00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:21,119
potential to flood, you still have the
emergency power, police power to do to

456
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:27,200
go onto their land. Um so I I don't I I
don't think that there is a increased or

457
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:30,880
decreased risk if it hasn't actually
flooded yet because you've got the maps

458
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:35,839
that show there is a potential for a
flood.

459
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:40,800
even if it's at a significantly higher
water level that it would flood than it

460
00:41:38,720 --> 00:41:44,560
has historically.
Um that's correct. So my argument would

461
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:50,000
be that you've got the maps that show it
could happen um and the science behind

462
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:54,000
it. The other lawyers on the other side
if was there would say but it hasn't

463
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:59,599
flooded yet. But um you're relying on
the scientific modeling to show um the

464
00:41:57,359 --> 00:42:03,760
potential and you're responding using
appropriate police power to do so.

465
00:42:05,839 --> 00:42:11,040
Andrew Ker, I just want to make a
clarification on something that I stated

466
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:16,800
earlier about if we have time to do
armoring uh before uh next before this

467
00:42:15,119 --> 00:42:21,400
yolk loop season. And the answer is we
do not because we don't have time to do

468
00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:21,400
the permitting.

469
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:35,680
Very good. More questions. Yes. Last
one. More Hugh Scandies. Uh, last one.

470
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:40,319
Generous Jar Smith. Uh, just a quick
one. The other funding sources that are

471
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:47,359
noted you did talk about the six million
of CB CDBGDR

472
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:50,880
funding and it just made me curious
because I know those funds can be used

473
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:56,000
for buyouts or I believe they can be
used for buyouts. Do we have any sense

474
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:59,920
just because we referenced View Drive,
but I'm also thinking of where we're

475
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:03,960
talking about diminishing returns, you
know, seven houses, $17 million or

476
00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:08,079
something like that, smaller and
smaller. Have we done any work to have

477
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,920
any sense of what the dollar amount
would could look like

478
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:22,960
buyoutwise? Um,
so no, but we do know what the assessed

479
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:28,160
value of those properties are. Um I
don't know that that would be uh the

480
00:43:25,359 --> 00:43:32,720
total cost because of course there's uh
for some programs we have to turn the

481
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:37,119
property into park space. So there is a
significant additional cost with with

482
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:44,000
demolition. For example, the NRCS
program is a uh cost share 75 the

483
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:49,520
federal government pays for 75% of that
and um the local match whether homeowner

484
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:54,440
or municipality is 25%. And and then in
addition to that, there would be some

485
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:54,440
like remediation costs.

486
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:03,960
Mr. Kelly, do you have a question? I
think so. Uh this is in followup to to

487
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:09,280
manager Kers's um comment a moment ago.
Um it's about the permitting. Like do we

488
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:14,240
currently have the processes to do an
accelerated permitting if we needed to?

489
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:19,240
And if so, would we have the staff power
to to do so?

490
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:25,280
Um
So since I incorrectly stated that we

491
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:28,079
might be able to do per to do barriers
this summer just because I know how

492
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:31,839
quickly Jean Cheeseman can work and I
was corrected by my staff who said we we

493
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:36,319
could not do them this summer because of
permitting. I'm going to answer that

494
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:42,800
it's not our uh it's not our staff that
is limiting their the permits are uh

495
00:44:39,119 --> 00:44:49,119
both through DNR and Army Corps and and
CBJ to maintain an FIP status. Thank

496
00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:49,119
you.

497
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:57,599
Very good. Seeing no further questions,
maybe let's try a motion to get us going

498
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:04,800
here. Madame Mayor, did you have
something? Um, certainly. Uh, tough

499
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:10,240
tough on this one. I will take option
two, direct staff to further develop

500
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:14,800
concepts and LID for phase 1B aiming for
construction next season.

501
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:20,560
And uh my second option would have been
do nothing. But I think if we develop

502
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:25,960
the concepts, we can always go to defer
to do nothing. I agree with you there.

503
00:45:23,359 --> 00:45:34,640
Um you've heard the motion. Any
objection, Miss Wall and Mr. Kelly?

504
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:39,520
um not objecting necessarily to the um
option two relative to those other ones,

505
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:45,359
but kind of a question about you know I
um my understanding of why we've been

506
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:53,280
talking about 1B is because it was
potentially easy to get done quickly and

507
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:59,280
I would as we explore that I I'd want to
know more about phase two and view drive

508
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:04,800
and you know having an extra year I lets
us think about all of those because I

509
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:11,160
don't necessarily think if we have time
um more time that we shouldn't be saying

510
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:16,000
1B is definitely the only thing that
we're doing. I want to weigh that

511
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:20,800
relative to you know something more
likely to flood or you know however I

512
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:26,079
realize it's the lowcost option and it
saves a lot of homes but I just want to

513
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:31,920
consider it in the context of the other
things we might do. So just going to

514
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,920
maybe this is a question to

515
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:42,079
staff. Is that kind of direction helpful
right now or or is this option written

516
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:45,960
as in we want direction to kind of very
clearly focus on 1B.

517
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:55,280
So the the way that I'm interpreting
your direction is not to come back with

518
00:46:51,200 --> 00:47:00,720
a process for initiating an LI for phase
1B, but to come back with more

519
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:04,480
information holistically about phase 2
and other options. So I I would think

520
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:08,520
that would be different than the mayor's
motion, and I would take that

521
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,520
differently.

522
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:20,440
And can I ask why your motion focused on
oneb for next year and not a larger

523
00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:24,960
suite of
options? Um yeah, I mean I think we

524
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:28,319
obviously still need to start keep
thinking about phase two and I have so

525
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:32,720
many unanswered questions for you about
phase two. So I don't think it would be

526
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:38,960
that there's an absence of that. Um, I
just think uh and and speaking with

527
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:42,800
staff um that 1B we really should do 1B
and it's hard to make the argument to go

528
00:47:41,119 --> 00:47:48,960
super quickly because of the cons that
have been expressed, but there's just no

529
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:54,160
way that I uh I it just I think that the
the value of the infrastructure and the

530
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:58,720
properties being um protected, it seems
like a no-brainer to to move forward

531
00:47:56,079 --> 00:48:02,960
with 1B. Um, but I think if you want to
pause and spend some more time thinking

532
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:07,920
about it in the context of phase two
that you know I don't I don't think that

533
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:12,800
necessarily slows us down on 1B to a
certain point right at like next couple

534
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:17,680
of months. Um, but at some point we'll
have to be like we need to do move

535
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:23,359
forward with 1B regardless of of what we
decide to do on phase two.

536
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:27,839
one clarifying question. It and is that
because 1B is like high bang for the

537
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:32,000
buck I guess is what what I'm trying to
make sure to understand it's it's not

538
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:35,920
necessarily that those properties are
more valuable than some of the other

539
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:43,119
properties we could protect in phase
two. It's that it's they're important

540
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:46,240
and it's an e easier solution. Does that
make sense? You're correct. You correct.

541
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:50,079
Yes. Okay. Good. I'm just trying to make
understand. I'm not questioning that

542
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:53,920
judgment. Thanks.
Mr. Kelly, do you have a question? Uh, I

543
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:58,640
do. Yes. I'll I'll object for the
purposes of a question

544
00:48:56,359 --> 00:49:01,920
and it's my understanding from looking
at the flood maps and I just want to

545
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:05,440
make sure I kind of get this from not
just looking at the flood maps but also

546
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:13,400
from a conversation and I just want to
make sure this is accurate

547
00:49:09,079 --> 00:49:19,119
that I Well, yeah.
So

548
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:24,200
would if we did not complete 1B this
year and we did complete 1A there there

549
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:30,680
are additional
homes from completing 1A that would be

550
00:49:27,839 --> 00:49:36,800
at risk that wouldn't be that 1B would
protect but if we don't do 1B this year

551
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:43,839
we're basically depending assuming we
get like a high 18

552
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,839
foot we could be putting other homes

553
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:48,440
in the way of the water.

554
00:49:49,280 --> 00:50:00,480
Mr. There would be 96 parcels if we did
not do 1B that would flood in a uh 18 ft

555
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:08,559
event. We would attempt to mitigate the
impact on 30 of those parcels uh that

556
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:12,680
are on meadow uh meadow link.
Thank you. I'll maintain my objection.

557
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:25,640
Very good. Further questions or comments
on the man on the mayor's

558
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:32,720
motion? I guess my comment is just
that we don't seem to have a way to fund

559
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:37,640
this fairly this year. We don't have a
way to armor the bank and ensure the

560
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:42,960
barriers are going to be properly
installed this year.

561
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:48,160
So therefore, it doesn't to me it just
doesn't seem like the right amount of

562
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:52,400
effort. I mean, obviously, we're Anyway,
we want to do as much as we can, but

563
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:59,760
this one just doesn't seem to make sense
to me to put in funds and put in I don't

564
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:04,440
just speaking to your motion in support
of your motion. Um,

565
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:12,559
Miss Scandy's comment. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. I have a comment on the motion

566
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:20,319
since that's a good thing for the public
to hear when we're having public

567
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:24,119
meetings. Um I the reason I was asking
about armoring is I think you made a

568
00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:29,760
good point on trying
to find a path

569
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:35,040
that talks about paying for things uh
both to find the money and both to do it

570
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:41,839
fairly with regard to what we've already
done with the first group of folks. But

571
00:51:39,119 --> 00:51:46,400
if I'm hearing that we can't armor and
we can't, you know, I don't have a lot

572
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:50,880
of is uh interest in hesing without
armoring, which is why I asked about

573
00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:56,079
armoring cuz I I think I could support
saying, "All right, let's not take the

574
00:51:53,200 --> 00:52:00,400
chance. Let's just keep going until it
floods." And and that is a situation

575
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:05,200
where I could consider it. But no,
hearing that no, that's not an option. I

576
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:10,480
just think that's yet another reason why
this is the smart thing to do. And with

577
00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:14,920
that, I remove my objection. You miss
Candies. I'll actually object for a

578
00:52:12,319 --> 00:52:21,599
purpose of a question.
Um, with the mayor's motion, and should

579
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:27,040
it be approved, you you're still going
to be there's still going to be work

580
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:30,359
being done on phase two. Correct.
Yes. Very good. Thank you. I'll remove

581
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:36,559
my
objection. We have a motion and

582
00:52:34,119 --> 00:52:40,760
objection, Mr. Kelly. I'll remove my
objection. Very good. Any further

583
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:47,599
objection to the mayor's
motion? Seeing none, that motion is

584
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:52,480
adopted. Madame Mayor,
uh, thank you. Um, and I think we do

585
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:58,280
have appetite for a service area.
Perhaps not as quickly as it says in the

586
00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:06,680
memo. So my motion would be
um direct staff to continue developing

587
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:12,720
um concepts of a service area
for the long-term

588
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,920
solution. Hopefully that gives staff
enough

589
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:20,480
direction. We've heard the motion. Is
there objection to the

590
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:25,680
motion? Seeing no objection, that motion
is adopted as well. Andrew Ker, is that

591
00:53:23,839 --> 00:53:29,280
all you needed on this agenda topic?
Very good. Thank you. All

592
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:41,280
right. So
close. Are we good to move to

593
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:45,880
RCV or do we need a Sorry.
Very good. Moving to agenda item two,

594
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:52,800
ordinance
2025-13, HRC rank choice

595
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:57,520
voting. Who is
firing off on this one.

596
00:53:55,520 --> 00:54:02,160
Deputy Mayor Smith, I'd be happy just to
let you know what is different about the

597
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:07,839
ordinance in front of you than um from
the last time you discussed this. Um the

598
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:13,119
version uh in your packet today includes
language that makes it possible to

599
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:17,839
implement um rank choice voting for um
multicandidate seats uh without choosing

600
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:21,520
designated seats. Do you recall there
was a lot of discussion last time you

601
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:26,880
talked about this about the schoolboard
seats having to choose designated seats

602
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:32,400
and um after talking with Dominion who
does our voting uh machines they can do

603
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:37,040
a cascade style voting and implement
rank and trace voting for those uh those

604
00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:41,920
seats without them having to kind of
change change their practice. So I just

605
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:47,280
wanted to clarify that that's the um
change in the version in your pack.

606
00:54:45,359 --> 00:54:54,000
Very good. Thank you, Manager Kester. We
also have Deputy Municipal Clerk Hirs

607
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:59,920
here who's pro on election things, but
any questions on the topic on the

608
00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:04,680
ordinance? Mr. Bryson,
thank you. Uh, your previous explanation

609
00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:12,960
was helpful, but uh what about in
a uh an assembly election with it being

610
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:18,160
two seats? Would the the same effect be
in play if there was like um I got a

611
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:23,119
one-year seat my first time out because
there was two seats in that district 2

612
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:27,480
column. How would that how would this be
impacted in an assembly race?

613
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:36,760
Thank you, Assembly Member Brace. And
it's the same. So, um Cascade or

614
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:41,599
Dominion um has the ability to handle
multi-member races. So, in a situation

615
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:45,520
where there's a resignation, um, last
time we talked about having to break out

616
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:48,960
individual seats, we heard back from
them that we do not need to do that. So,

617
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:54,559
whether it's an assembly member or
school board, we have the ability to get

618
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:57,880
the first choice, second choice, um, and
go from there.

619
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:08,240
Mayor Welen,
thank you. I was asked this question

620
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:14,160
before, so I'm just getting it out to
public. Um, so when I talked to Deputy

621
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:18,400
Clerk Hurst earlier today, one of my
concerns was we still wouldn't get

622
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:22,160
election results on election night. And
if I paraphrase her right, she could

623
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:26,720
race down here and change me. We still
would get some results similar to what

624
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:30,400
we have. So if you had one candidate
that was way ahead

625
00:56:30,599 --> 00:56:38,079
of one candidate that was way ahead,
you'd know that race. if there was only

626
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:41,119
two candidates and um any ballot
propositions, you would probably have a

627
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:45,920
pretty good idea, but I will let her
speak to that because she probably will

628
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:52,720
do a better job. Thank you. Um this is
Andy, deputy uh municipal clerk Hersh.

629
00:56:48,559 --> 00:56:57,280
Um so our current system, we do produce
uh election results on election night.

630
00:56:54,720 --> 00:57:03,200
Those generally reflect between 50 to
60% of the total votes. um by the Friday

631
00:57:01,119 --> 00:57:08,640
or so after the election, our total
votes are generally in the 80 to 90%

632
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:15,119
range. Um if we move to rank choice
voting, we will have the ability to

633
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:20,400
prover produce first round or first rank
results kind of like the state of Alaska

634
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:24,480
does. So um people's top candidates um
will be available in the basically the

635
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:31,359
same proportions and at the same timing
as we currently do. we would not be able

636
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:37,040
to run the rank choice um portion where
you drop out lower candidates and um

637
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:41,760
figure out who the eventual winners are
um until after the canvas review board

638
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:46,480
meets and we have all ballots approved
for counting. So like Mayor Walden said

639
00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:51,040
that means that for ballot propositions
that are just a yes no we would have a

640
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:54,880
we probably would have a really good
idea. um any race that's really close,

641
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:58,720
we still won't know until after the
cameras review board, regardless of if

642
00:57:56,799 --> 00:58:03,680
we're ranked choice or if we stick with
our current method. But um ballot

643
00:58:00,799 --> 00:58:08,720
propositions that are just a yes no. Um
races that only have two candidates or

644
00:58:06,799 --> 00:58:14,880
races with more than two candidates
where one person has a very large u

645
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:20,480
majority or um has a very large lead
over the other candidates. Um there

646
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:26,079
would be uh it is probable that the
results that we produce on the Friday

647
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:31,920
after the election would um remain
throughout the remainder of counting.

648
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:35,599
What we wouldn't know are um races that
are very close. So if there's three

649
00:58:33,359 --> 00:58:40,720
candidates um and they're all between 30
and 35%, we won't know that until we run

650
00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:47,440
rank choice voting. We also would not
know the candidates um for when we have

651
00:58:45,119 --> 00:58:53,119
to use the cascade style. So that would
be the um if in in the assembly if there

652
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:57,520
is a vacancy and there's multiple seats
in that district or with the school

653
00:58:54,640 --> 00:59:02,400
board. We may know just by looking who
the top candidate is um that they will

654
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:06,559
win the first round. Um but we wouldn't
know until after we run rank choice

655
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:12,119
voting which is after the canvas review
board meets um to know any subsequent

656
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:12,119
winners.

657
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:21,480
Mr. Senator and then Atkinson is it a
like a technical limitation or a legal

658
00:59:19,599 --> 00:59:29,559
limitation that we couldn't
run at each update for ballots that we

659
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,559
couldn't run a sample of the ranking?

660
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:36,480
It is not a technical limitation. Um I
don't know if there is a legal

661
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:40,319
limitation. This is what the state um
this is based off what the state of

662
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:46,319
Alaska does um with their rank choice
voting. I will say

663
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:50,880
um one of the issues is with rank choice
voting. Um the results can change pretty

664
00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:57,920
dramatically when you don't have the
full set. So what we when we ran between

665
00:59:55,440 --> 01:00:02,480
on election night between 50 to 60% if
we're actually ranking all of those

666
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:08,240
through that may look very different to
the results that we produce on Friday.

667
01:00:04,799 --> 01:00:13,920
Um and I um the more different results
we produce um the more election

668
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:17,559
integrity um can get be called into
question by the public.

669
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:23,400
Miss Ederson.
Thank you Mr. Chair. I just want to

670
01:00:21,119 --> 01:00:29,680
clarify on the cannabis review board
timeline. Uh basically we wouldn't have

671
01:00:26,319 --> 01:00:32,480
certain results for the your 30% 30% 30%
spread or anything like that until at

672
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:36,960
the same time we'd have certified
results for elections. So we do it

673
01:00:34,319 --> 01:00:41,040
today. Correct. Thank you
Mr. Kelly.

674
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:47,680
Uh thank you. So with the cascade
system, it's it's um my understanding

675
01:00:43,359 --> 01:00:52,880
from reading this that we could
basically this first person winner would

676
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:57,520
would be winning with um a rank choice
plurality I mean majority but the second

677
01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:02,280
person would just have a plurality from
the remaining candidates. Is that

678
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,280
correct?

679
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:12,559
I don't believe so. Let me see um I if
I'm understanding your question

680
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:18,400
correctly. So, um, if we have two open
seats and four candidates, people rank

681
01:01:16,319 --> 01:01:22,720
their, uh, their top choice and that
would run just like the state, right?

682
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:26,640
So, if somebody is a clear winner, they
get 50% of the first place votes,

683
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:30,880
they're elected. If they don't, you drop
the lowest candidate, and votes are

684
01:01:28,559 --> 01:01:35,760
redistributed until you have a winner.
Then to determine who the second winner

685
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:43,760
is, you would functionally remove the
winner from everybody's vote uh ballot

686
01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:50,319
and shift um everything up. And so in
that case um then you run the results

687
01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:56,240
again. And so every person who votes,
presuming they fill out um or they rank

688
01:01:53,280 --> 01:02:03,400
at least two candidates will their vote
will count for both races. So it won't

689
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:07,839
necessarily be a plurality. Does
that is that a better does that answer

690
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:11,200
your question? I I think so. So it'll
it'll be a majority of the remaining

691
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:15,960
votes, but it'll be a it could be a
plurality of the

692
01:02:17,359 --> 01:02:24,799
um Never mind. I'll probably follow up
offline. Sounds good. Um it's very

693
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:29,520
similar to how we do block voting now
where um in a schoolboard race if there

694
01:02:27,359 --> 01:02:36,400
are three open seats and there are six
candidates you get to vote for three. Um

695
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:42,119
so this maintains um the ability for a
person to basically vote in each seat.

696
01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:46,880
Kelly. So, as a

697
01:02:47,559 --> 01:02:55,480
followup, in block voting, um, so as you
said, we get to vote for two people, but

698
01:02:52,720 --> 01:03:00,640
in this system, we only get to
vote. We're basically just voting once.

699
01:02:59,119 --> 01:03:05,520
Like, we're ranking people, but we're
just Okay. So, we do.

700
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:10,720
Okay.
Um, I think we're having I we can

701
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:16,760
definitely follow up offline anytime you
want. I think um we're having a bit of a

702
01:03:13,079 --> 01:03:23,599
definition issue. Um
so with the cascade

703
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:27,599
style, every person who votes, assuming
that they just like in block style

704
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:32,480
voting, even though you can pick three
candidates, some people still only pick

705
01:03:29,039 --> 01:03:41,119
one, right? So not accounting for that
but account um if people rank their

706
01:03:37,079 --> 01:03:45,039
choices one of uh their choice counts
towards picking both the first candidate

707
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:52,079
and picking the second candidate.
They're not dropped from the system. Um

708
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:57,680
and so they get to vote basically in
both races.

709
01:03:55,359 --> 01:04:03,440
No,
maybe maybe let me try one second just

710
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:09,200
because so my my understanding from
watching the video and some other things

711
01:04:05,359 --> 01:04:13,280
was say there say there's a school board
election

712
01:04:10,359 --> 01:04:17,680
with you know three seats available and
there's six

713
01:04:15,160 --> 01:04:22,039
candidates. The ballot would have the
six names and people could rank them

714
01:04:19,599 --> 01:04:26,720
one. They would just rank one through
six or one through four or one through

715
01:04:25,119 --> 01:04:32,640
two. I mean one and two, but they're
just they're just ranking the

716
01:04:29,319 --> 01:04:38,160
list. They're voting them down one time.
Is that right? Correct.

717
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:42,599
So, you're just ranking the list as far
down as you want to rank them.

718
01:04:44,079 --> 01:04:54,400
Um, Mayor Welen Scandies. Uh, thank you.
Um, another question I asked every clerk

719
01:04:50,400 --> 01:05:00,160
earlier was um with the delay in waiting
to the canvas review board change our

720
01:04:57,359 --> 01:05:06,480
assembly reorganization meeting in
October so I'll ask that question

721
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:11,640
it would not
miss scandies I no longer have a

722
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:11,640
question

723
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:21,839
further questions
on madam clerk

724
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:27,280
Um, following up on Mayor Weldon's
question, it would not change the timing

725
01:05:24,559 --> 01:05:33,680
of the results, but just so everyone is
aware that it could, as has always been

726
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:39,039
the case, the canvas review board could
be delayed by up to three days. That

727
01:05:36,799 --> 01:05:45,039
then would have a domino effect on when
the mayor can contact whoever is elected

728
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:50,160
and get the committees figured out. So
there's a compressed time if you're

729
01:05:47,200 --> 01:05:54,640
looking at um later in that week having
the final decision and then having a

730
01:05:52,559 --> 01:06:00,000
Monday meeting right after that to where
your committee uh

731
01:05:56,599 --> 01:06:03,400
reorganization deputy mayor process
takes place.

732
01:06:05,119 --> 01:06:11,520
Miss
Atr Chair just to clarify on that last

733
01:06:09,359 --> 01:06:17,200
point but currently the canvas review
board can also be delayed. Yes.

734
01:06:15,359 --> 01:06:21,760
If I might, Mr. Cherry, that's correct,
Miss Atkinson. Um, it has been in our

735
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:27,839
code the entire time I've worked in this
office that they can be delayed for on a

736
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:33,799
day-to-day basis for up to three days.
It's happened once and that was during

737
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:33,799
COVID in my tenure.

738
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:40,160
Further questions from the

739
01:06:40,359 --> 01:06:48,480
committee? See no further questions.
Anyone interested in a

740
01:06:44,520 --> 01:06:53,359
motion? Miss Hughes Scandies.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question

741
01:06:50,000 --> 01:07:00,240
for not our staff, but I guess for this
body. I wasn't here when you all

742
01:06:55,839 --> 01:07:04,640
discussed this before. So, I guess I can
just I'll I can keep my piece and see

743
01:07:03,039 --> 01:07:08,720
what motions come forth from this
committee. But I'll be especially

744
01:07:06,640 --> 01:07:14,319
interested to know how much you all
talked about public um feedback, which

745
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:20,760
I'm sure is something that everybody
here wants. So, I'll wait for a motion.

746
01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:30,240
Okay, Mayor Welen. Thank you. I would
move ordinance uh

747
01:07:27,319 --> 01:07:34,920
2025-13 cow version that takes care of
the clerk's amendments uh to the full

748
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:41,839
assembly.
Very good. Objections, Mr. Kelly and

749
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:49,359
Miss Atkinson, Miss Scandies.
Um, thank you. I I think this uh Cascade

750
01:07:45,839 --> 01:07:54,240
um amendment is is interesting. I'm not
sure that I'm completely ready to

751
01:07:51,200 --> 01:08:00,799
endorse it. I think it might be simpler
for most people to maybe have, you know,

752
01:07:57,559 --> 01:08:05,599
specific C's like a 1A and 1B or an area
wide A and an area wide B in the case

753
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:10,240
where we have a resignation or or
something along those lines. Um, it's my

754
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:13,599
understanding it wouldn't take a great
deal more to to change that. We wouldn't

755
01:08:12,319 --> 01:08:18,799
need a charter amendment. We could do
that as well in the ordinance, but I

756
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:23,040
feel like, you know, candidates that
would also not impact candidates because

757
01:08:20,799 --> 01:08:25,839
candidates could also
um you know, as long as they're within

758
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:31,120
the filing period, it's my understanding
that they can just choose to um you

759
01:08:29,440 --> 01:08:40,719
know, file in a different seat. I I've
seen that happen um when I was running.

760
01:08:35,719 --> 01:08:44,400
Um, so I think I would like to explore
other

761
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:48,319
options more. I'm not sold on the
cascade. Um, if anything, I would I

762
01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:53,440
would probably move to to strike this
portion, but I'll um wait for the

763
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:57,600
opinion of the rest of the assembly.
Great. Miss Atkinson. Thank you, Mr.

764
01:08:55,839 --> 01:09:00,799
Chair. I was going to say I think I I
very much appreciate the mayor's motion,

765
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:04,719
but I'd also want to look at potentially
a second public hearing so that we can

766
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:07,679
be sure that we do a good public process
for this. But before I get into that, I

767
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:12,960
just want to address Mr. Kelly's
concerns. So, um I would say for one, it

768
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:17,679
does not require a charter amendment to
designate seats. So, that's one thing.

769
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:21,040
But also, there is some impacts to the
candidate when you do designate seats

770
01:09:19,199 --> 01:09:24,319
because while candidates can switch back
and forth between seats, they have to

771
01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:27,520
fill out a new petition for signatures
every time they do that. And that's

772
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:31,520
particularly problematic for the school
board. Um, if you're try there's no

773
01:09:30,159 --> 01:09:35,440
functional difference between the seats,
but if you want to run in an open seat

774
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:38,480
instead of one with three people in it,
for instance, that can get complicated

775
01:09:36,799 --> 01:09:42,239
fast. So, there's actually a lot of uh
benefits for keeping the current system

776
01:09:40,719 --> 01:09:45,239
and having the cascade of interest
voting.

777
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:55,679
I'd miss you scandi next. Uh, thank you,
Mr. Chair. I think I don't have I I'm

778
01:09:52,319 --> 01:10:00,719
eager to uh hear what the public thinks
about this, you know, for getting into

779
01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:05,440
the weeds of exactly how this works. I
love that we do rank choice voting at

780
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:10,080
the state. I love that we voted to keep
it. So, I don't have a problem saying,

781
01:10:08,400 --> 01:10:13,600
"Yep, and this is how the state of
Alaska votes, and this is how we vote

782
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:18,960
locally, too." It seems like you guys
worked out the kinks in that. I was just

783
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:24,000
going to say sometimes I look at our
mechanisms as a body. I've you

784
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:28,480
frequently heard me say, "Oh, we never
get to talk to each other besides a cow,

785
01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:33,440
but also we want to keep the cow
moving." So, you know, we can only ever

786
01:10:30,719 --> 01:10:39,280
talk to one or two people. Um, and the
reason I say that is

787
01:10:35,239 --> 01:10:44,640
because in some ways I'm very excited
about our communications department and

788
01:10:41,679 --> 01:10:48,560
how that will uh improve our ability to
engage with the public. But this seems

789
01:10:46,239 --> 01:10:54,159
like the perfect kind of thing where
moving it to the full assembly almost to

790
01:10:51,440 --> 01:11:00,600
me I'm like what would it look like if
we had just a public meeting and we

791
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:05,600
said we're getting ready to move this to
the full assembly and this is

792
01:11:03,679 --> 01:11:10,080
aformational meeting and it's in the
chambers kind of like we do when we're

793
01:11:07,440 --> 01:11:15,199
doing something weird like kuna totem or
uh you know some more of our oddball

794
01:11:12,440 --> 01:11:19,280
projects. Um, so I'm just throwing that
out there for our consideration because

795
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:24,080
I wonder what else public feedback.
We've also taken public feedback at

796
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:28,800
committees like lands and public works.
I feel like that doesn't I don't love

797
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:32,640
that cuz it doesn't feel that I feel
like you don't get as much engagement as

798
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:37,679
you do with the full assembly and it's
essentially the same thing. But uh I'll

799
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:41,040
certainly remove my objection, but I
wish there was something better than

800
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:46,640
moving this to the full assembly just
because I I feel like for people who

801
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:51,280
aren't geeking out over our process,
then it feels, you know, it brings up

802
01:11:49,440 --> 01:11:54,320
these strong emotions in them if they're
not sure if they want this or not

803
01:11:52,719 --> 01:11:58,320
because it feels like you're just a step
away from making a law and you're not

804
01:11:56,640 --> 01:12:03,440
you don't really want my opinion. You're
you've already decided on this. So, I

805
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:06,960
just bring this up cuz I know people
have strong feelings about elections,

806
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:11,679
but I'm happy to let it go to the full
assembly. And with that, I remove my

807
01:12:08,560 --> 01:12:16,560
objection. You're good. Mayor Welen,
we could bring it to um the full

808
01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:21,400
assembly as for public hearing and bring
it back to the council. So, it's an

809
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:21,400
option.

810
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:28,719
It's an option. Further comments? Mr.
Kelly, do you have a question or

811
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:32,560
anything? No. because um the mayor beat
me to she said exactly what I was going

812
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:39,120
to say.
Erica, just to I guess I'll object for a

813
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:45,199
question. Um do we I guess I'm just
trying to think of what we would want to

814
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:51,280
show the public at a public hearing. I
mean, I don't know if just having them

815
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:58,040
speak about an ordinance would be that
useful or if they need to like see

816
01:12:54,320 --> 01:13:02,239
examples of what it looks like. And
anyway, I guess I'm just kind of

817
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:06,159
thinking about what's actually
beneficial for the public to to better

818
01:13:04,719 --> 01:13:12,560
understand. And I I mean, another thing
we also need to recognize is this is not

819
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:16,040
impacting the 2025 election. If if it
does pass, it will be impacting the

820
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:23,120
2026.
But I I guess it's a question for staff,

821
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:31,120
like how quickly could we pull
something, you know, with examples

822
01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:35,520
or something that would like show they
just show those ballots, I guess, and

823
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:39,600
then Okay. And then they just It doesn't
really show the counting. I don't know

824
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:43,199
if you need to do that.
If people feel like that's fine, I'm

825
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:49,360
fine with it. But it's just pieces of
paper. Yes. Uh Mr. Chair, you have in

826
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:53,760
the memo in your packet a link to a
video that demonstrates exactly what

827
01:13:51,360 --> 01:14:00,520
you're asking for. Also in the packet
are sample of what a ballot looks like

828
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:09,199
as well as what our current ballot
um has been. So what the comparisons

829
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:13,280
might be. Um, we'd be happy to do a show
and tell if the general public would

830
01:14:11,679 --> 01:14:19,679
like, but it's already right there in
the packet linked so that anyone that

831
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:25,120
has internet access can go and watch
that if they would like,

832
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:29,199
Miss Atkinson.
Um, I'm thinking I might as well just

833
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:32,960
make uh an amendment to the mayor's
motion and add in uh that we also bring

834
01:14:31,520 --> 01:14:36,000
it back after injection the assembly
bring it back to the next cow for public

835
01:14:34,480 --> 01:14:40,440
hearing.
So the July 14th cow.

836
01:14:41,199 --> 01:14:46,800
Mr. Chair, I didn't quite hear Miss
Atkinson. Can you repeat your motion,

837
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:51,840
please? My motion my amendment to the
motion was uh to also bring it back to

838
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:55,199
the cow the next cow for public hearing.
have the public hearing in the cow

839
01:14:53,520 --> 01:15:00,080
meeting second an additional public
hearing at the cow. So it going to the

840
01:14:57,719 --> 01:15:04,640
assembly having a public hearing at the
assembly bringing it back for public

841
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:10,560
hearing at the cow. Mayor shaking her
head. So, Madam Mayor, go ahead. Madam

842
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:15,040
Mayor, um I appreciate Miss Agass's
sentiment, but I would think you'd do it

843
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:18,480
the other way. Have the next cow, have a
public meeting on it, and then move it

844
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:22,320
to the assembly. But to move it to the
assembly to have public hearing and back

845
01:15:20,719 --> 01:15:27,679
here to have public hearing, it just
seems a little awkward to me, but um I

846
01:15:26,080 --> 01:15:30,960
can't remember. But you also said just
have a public hearing. That might be a

847
01:15:29,440 --> 01:15:36,560
way for people to be able to play with
things a little too.

848
01:15:33,280 --> 01:15:41,600
Madam Attorney, um if I may suggest just
to keep your cows clean, um if you want

849
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:44,640
to have a special meeting to talk about
um rank choice voting and a public

850
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:49,040
hearing at a special meeting, that's
probably cleanest. I don't know that you

851
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:54,880
want to start opening up your cows um
for public hearing. Um but you certainly

852
01:15:51,840 --> 01:16:00,239
could schedule a a special meeting, you
know, wherever you would like.

853
01:15:58,980 --> 01:16:05,120
[Music]
Comments, Mr. Bryson.

854
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:10,560
Um, Mr. Deputy Mayor, I was just going
to offer up uh the Lands Housing and

855
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:16,080
Economic Development Committee. Uh,
no, we've held public testimony, but if

856
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:20,199
not, if that's
Thank you, Miss Scandies.

857
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:28,960
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I I just would say
that I I mean like now I think we're

858
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:33,920
getting making it messier. The what I
was proposing before is we don't do

859
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:38,320
things like that in general by practice.
A public meeting where you just schedule

860
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:43,199
a public meeting and you do a public it
it wouldn't be a public meeting with us

861
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:49,520
sitting here on a day. It would just be
wherever you put it and you would have

862
01:16:46,159 --> 01:16:54,560
sample ballots and things. I think when
you start adding public hearings at

863
01:16:52,640 --> 01:17:01,440
other meetings besides the assembly, it
gets messy as the clerk just noted. So,

864
01:16:57,280 --> 01:17:04,640
I'm fine with this going to a public to
the full assembly for a public hearing

865
01:17:03,040 --> 01:17:08,800
and then sending it back to the cow,
which I believe the mayor has already

866
01:17:06,480 --> 01:17:14,080
amended her motion to do that, but maybe
she didn't.

867
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:18,080
I believe the current Madame Clerk,
would you remind us of the current

868
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:22,560
motion?
Thank you, uh, Mr. chair and correct me

869
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:28,239
if I'm wrong, Madame Mayor, but the
motion was to forward ordinance

870
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:32,560
202515 version cow to the assembly for
introduction.

871
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:36,440
That would be at the June 9th regular
assembly meeting next week.

872
01:17:39,440 --> 01:17:49,400
I'm looking I'm looking for the will of
the body. I'm I would h be happy to do

873
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:49,400
that to public hearing and move it back.

874
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:59,520
I guess a question for the
team. I I mean I guess we could just

875
01:17:55,840 --> 01:18:04,040
have public hearing at the June 9th
regular assembly meeting. No. Okay. So

876
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:10,800
we need to do a special
meeting for the July the the standard

877
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:15,520
public hearing would be July 28th. But I
think we are saying we would like an

878
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:22,120
additional we would like an additional
public meeting before adoption day. So

879
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:33,679
Mr. Bryson, Mr. Deputy Mayor, I
definitely want to see this at public

880
01:18:31,679 --> 01:18:39,760
testimony. Um, but I'd like to remind
this body that we have tried to do extra

881
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:45,280
meetings for extra public testimony and
not necessarily received a lot of extra

882
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:52,080
participation with the extra public
testimony avail uh time available. Um, I

883
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:57,199
hear you there, Mr. Kelly.
Thank you.

884
01:18:53,960 --> 01:19:01,360
I I kind of hear Miss Husandi suggestion
perhaps a little bit differently. Um, it

885
01:18:59,280 --> 01:19:04,719
sounds to me, um, and correct me if I'm
wrong, are you suggesting perhaps like

886
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:08,080
not an actual like other public meeting,
but something that's a little more

887
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:13,360
informal, something more of a workshop
where people can kind of bring bring

888
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:18,000
forth their thoughts and ideas or
Yeah. Uh, through the chair, I I was

889
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:22,000
envisioning something like you do it
here in the chambers. You have stuff on

890
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:26,840
tables.
City staff are present. Someone plays a

891
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:30,880
video on the
screen. People can just mill about and

892
01:19:29,199 --> 01:19:35,920
ask questions. We've done that for other
things. We did a presentation on the

893
01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:41,280
assessments and how they work one time.
So, I was envisioning just something

894
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:46,000
like that. And for the record, I now am
at the point where I say move it to the

895
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:50,400
full assembly, introduce it, let it come
to the public hearing. I'm sure it's

896
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:55,120
been in the empire now. I'm sure we'll
get some public hearing about it. If we

897
01:19:52,560 --> 01:20:00,159
get to the public hearing section, send
it back to the cow if that feels right

898
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:04,480
to us. Um because I think if we're not
going to do like a little standalone

899
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:09,199
informal meeting, then let's just follow
our normal process and trust that we'll

900
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:13,640
get feedback because we always do get
feedback on on all these topics.

901
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:20,080
Very good. The current motion is to
Madame Clerk.

902
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:24,640
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I was just about
to ask if the amendment was on the floor

903
01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:27,920
or not.
I do not believe there's been an

904
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:31,480
amendment. So, Miss Hughes Candiy's
amendment is withdrawn.

905
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:38,159
Yeah. To the ex. Yep. If I made one,
then I withdraw.

906
01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:44,080
To the extended.
Very good. So the current motion is to

907
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:50,600
introduce this ordinance at the June 9th
regular assembly

908
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:54,640
meeting. Are there amendments to that
motion? Is there objection to the

909
01:20:55,880 --> 01:21:04,280
motion? Seeing no objection, that motion
is adopted. And we'll take a 7 minute

910
01:21:02,480 --> 01:21:10,000
break. We'll be back at
7:25. Thank you, Deputy Clerk Hersh, for

911
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:10,000
your work. Thank you.

912
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:17,120
Very good. We are back to order for the
committee the whole on that rank choice

913
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:24,080
voting item. Madame mayor, did you have
another I have another motion for staff

914
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:29,880
to make sure that we're getting our
sound like from our conversation. So, um

915
01:30:26,880 --> 01:30:35,560
I would direct staff to come up with
a educational uh outreach to the public

916
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:40,920
on rate choice
voting. Very good. You've heard the

917
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:45,600
motion. Any objection to the
motion? That's helpful for staff. Very

918
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:51,679
good. That motion is adopted. Moving on
to the next item.

919
01:30:48,239 --> 01:30:56,679
Trash. Let's talk trash. Manager Ker or
is it

920
01:30:52,679 --> 01:30:56,679
Director Cotch?

921
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:04,080
Cotch, please. Very good. Director
Cotch, please start us up. Thank you

922
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:11,080
very much, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to
see if we could get the uh the slides on

923
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:11,080
the screen, please.

924
01:31:22,880 --> 01:31:30,239
If not, I I could go with just if you
have it in your packet while the slides

925
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:35,360
are loading. There we go. Okay. Thank
you very much. I am really excited to be

926
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:41,600
here tonight to talk to you about
garbage and I am being sincere about

927
01:31:38,239 --> 01:31:48,800
that. This is a a topic I uh really like
to talk about.

928
01:31:43,159 --> 01:31:53,480
Um so uh more recently uh in 2021 the
assembly had established uh waste

929
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:58,719
reduction goals as one of the assembly's
goals. Uh so we have been spending

930
01:31:56,239 --> 01:32:04,400
probably about three years at the public
works and facilities committee talking

931
01:32:00,560 --> 01:32:09,760
about uh trash items. We actually um
reclassified an existing position that

932
01:32:06,719 --> 01:32:14,000
is Diana Robinson right here uh and
created a new environmental project

933
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:19,920
specialist from a previous position to
really uh dive deep uh and be a she's

934
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:25,679
our subject matter expert along with
Stuart Ashton on waste items.

935
01:32:23,120 --> 01:32:30,960
Uh and it's really interesting as we
have looked at this issue uh we have a

936
01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:36,719
great website and there's uh a URL to it
at the at the back of this packet but uh

937
01:32:33,760 --> 01:32:40,639
there's a bit of a a timeline and what
caught my eye is that we have been

938
01:32:38,639 --> 01:32:46,080
talking about trash in this community
since

939
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:52,960
1984. Um in the early 2000s the estimate
on the uh lifespan of the waste

940
01:32:49,440 --> 01:32:58,800
management landfill in Juno was about 30
years. So here we are it was I think it

941
01:32:55,679 --> 01:33:02,239
was 2004. So you know a little more than
20 years later and it's like oh I've

942
01:33:00,639 --> 01:33:08,560
come to tell you that we've got about 10
years uh left of uh lifespan left on

943
01:33:06,239 --> 01:33:14,000
that landfill. It's a little bit hard to
know precisely how much uh lifespan is

944
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:17,520
left in that landfill because it's
privately owned and operated. It's

945
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:22,000
sometimes hard to get really precise
information, but uh we rely on some

946
01:33:19,920 --> 01:33:26,320
information that they have to um
disclose to the Alaska Department of

947
01:33:23,920 --> 01:33:30,560
Environmental Conservation. And really
the I'm going to go into a couple of

948
01:33:28,639 --> 01:33:36,480
more details, but not much. But really
to some extent I feel like the punchline

949
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:41,199
is I want us to think about trash and
the future of trash for this community

950
01:33:38,719 --> 01:33:46,000
because if we wait to the day where one
day Waste Management makes an

951
01:33:42,639 --> 01:33:51,040
announcement that uh their landfill is
closing, they'll probably give us two or

952
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:56,000
three years worth of notice. And if we
wait until that point to start having

953
01:33:53,360 --> 01:34:01,920
this conversation, it will be too late.
there's a long lead time on uh you know

954
01:33:59,360 --> 01:34:06,480
getting the capital in place uh if we
wanted to do something different uh the

955
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:10,960
permitting uh to do something different
would take a long lead time so that's

956
01:34:08,480 --> 01:34:17,239
that's really why uh we're talking about
this today if we could do the next slide

957
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:24,560
please thank you uh this slide I think
um is simple but powerful and it just

958
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:28,639
shows that most in most communities
including in Alaska that uh those

959
01:34:26,639 --> 01:34:34,159
communities have some level of control
over their waste and Juno doesn't and

960
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:39,679
we're on the short list. So, we are uh
the way that we uh don't handle trash uh

961
01:34:37,679 --> 01:34:42,880
in this community, our hands-off
approach is definitely an approach.

962
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:48,360
Hannes and Glenn Allen do it as well,
but uh we're more the exception than the

963
01:34:45,480 --> 01:34:54,639
rule. Next slide,
please. Okay, so uh flow control. So

964
01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:58,960
there are generally two ways at a really
high level that uh communities uh

965
01:34:57,280 --> 01:35:04,639
municipal governments interject
themselves into the trash conversation.

966
01:35:02,159 --> 01:35:09,679
They either uh own the waist they get
into waste hauling. So they own um a

967
01:35:07,360 --> 01:35:15,840
certificate of necessity and convenience
from the regulatory commission of Alaska

968
01:35:12,639 --> 01:35:23,280
uh or and or they uh have some control
and over the solid waste disposal

969
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:26,320
methods. Um, and if you could go to uh
the next slide,

970
01:35:27,320 --> 01:35:35,600
please. I want to talk sort of more
tangibly about uh what it means, I

971
01:35:33,199 --> 01:35:41,120
think, for this community uh to not
really not have any control over or over

972
01:35:38,159 --> 01:35:45,040
its municipal solid waste. We do, I've
said in the past, we nibble around the

973
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:49,120
edges. We do recycling. We do household
hazardous waste. So, we do some really

974
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:53,760
good things. But um I wanted to give
some tangible examples of you know uh

975
01:35:52,080 --> 01:35:59,280
essentially I always say when it comes
to things changing at the landfill uh

976
01:35:56,400 --> 01:36:02,800
oftentimes I think and citizens
understandably because in most

977
01:36:01,040 --> 01:36:07,920
communities most communities have some
level of control over their municipal

978
01:36:05,199 --> 01:36:12,960
solid waste. So when residents have
questions or concerns they come to you

979
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:17,760
as an assembly or they come to us as as
staff. Uh, and I always say, you know,

980
01:36:15,679 --> 01:36:22,080
we don't own for in terms of the waste
management landfill. We don't own it. We

981
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:27,440
don't operate it. We don't regulate it.
And what that means is the um the owner

982
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:33,360
of that landfill can change the hours of
operation. They can change the disposal

983
01:36:30,159 --> 01:36:39,040
rates. They can change the conditions uh
under which they will accept waste. Uh

984
01:36:36,159 --> 01:36:43,520
we just found out um because we did a
public records act request to the Alaska

985
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:47,840
Department of Environmental Conservation
um that uh there's a new plan at Waste

986
01:36:46,400 --> 01:36:53,280
Management where they're going to
require much more documentation for

987
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:58,800
construction and demolition uh waste and
it's going to be more ownorous for

988
01:36:56,000 --> 01:37:03,760
residents to bring in those uh those
streams of trash. And that goes into

989
01:37:01,119 --> 01:37:07,520
effect according to their plan today.
And what I anticipate will happen like

990
01:37:05,679 --> 01:37:12,960
when when the landfill has made other
changes um people will come to the

991
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:18,800
assembly or to to staff and we just we
we can't compel waste management uh to

992
01:37:15,360 --> 01:37:24,719
to make any of those changes. Um next
slide

993
01:37:20,119 --> 01:37:29,920
please. So this is the uh the website I
was mentioning just a few moments ago.

994
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:34,480
Uh we have the QR code there for anyone
who's looking at the packet. But if you

995
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:38,560
go to juno.org or and you uh select the
department of engineering and public

996
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:43,440
works, there's a solid waste planning
website and uh that has been put up

997
01:37:41,360 --> 01:37:47,360
thanks to Diana Robinson putting a lot
of work into that trying to you know

998
01:37:45,199 --> 01:37:53,119
piece together this fuller picture uh
and the discussions that we've had uh

999
01:37:49,679 --> 01:37:57,840
for several years. Um and with that I'm
actually going to hand the next portion

1000
01:37:54,880 --> 01:38:02,960
of the presentation over to Tara at
Jacobs. Hopefully she's been promoted as

1001
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:09,280
a panelist. Uh and she could talk to you
about um the most recent just quick

1002
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:12,960
snapshot. Uh you may recall uh we have
come to you as a body before to ask for

1003
01:38:11,199 --> 01:38:17,760
permission to do a waste
characterization study which we have

1004
01:38:15,199 --> 01:38:23,040
done. Um that's kind of a foundational
document to understand what's in our in

1005
01:38:20,159 --> 01:38:28,159
our waste. And then the next step uh we
had come back to um the assembly and and

1006
01:38:26,480 --> 01:38:32,560
public works and facilities committee
and had had asked for permission to uh

1007
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:38,480
spend money to do a really high level
study, a tech a capital study

1008
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:42,639
essentially to get some um high level
understanding of the different options

1009
01:38:40,480 --> 01:38:48,560
there are if uh the community decided
that we did want to take uh a more

1010
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:53,040
active role in waste. uh to look at what
those capital costs would be. And before

1011
01:38:51,360 --> 01:38:57,199
I hand it over, I will just say and
start maybe steal Terara's thunder, but

1012
01:38:55,360 --> 01:39:01,760
there are basically three options and
all of those options include a transfer

1013
01:38:59,119 --> 01:39:06,719
station. Uh so keep that in mind. And
with that, I will hand it to Tara from

1014
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:13,920
Jacobs.
Thank you. Director Coach, can you hear

1015
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:19,119
me everyone? We can. Okay. Excellent.
Well, thank you assembly for allowing us

1016
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:25,040
to take the time to present the results
of this feasibility and capital cost

1017
01:39:21,520 --> 01:39:30,000
estimate study. And so my goal here is
to provide an overview of this study

1018
01:39:27,360 --> 01:39:34,159
that we conducted with the CBJ to
evaluate the feasibility and the capital

1019
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:39,600
costs of these three possible solid
waste disposal scenarios for Juno that

1020
01:39:37,119 --> 01:39:43,520
were mentioned. Um, and myself and my
colleague Lindseay Lopez, who is also

1021
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:47,840
online, we will be available to answer
questions at the end related to the

1022
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:51,280
technical portions of the study. Um, and
you're welcome to stop me throughout the

1023
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:55,520
presentation if any urgent questions
come up, but I'm hoping to keep this

1024
01:39:53,760 --> 01:40:01,639
relatively short so there's plenty of
time for discussion at the end. Uh, next

1025
01:39:58,239 --> 01:40:01,639
slide, please.

1026
01:40:03,119 --> 01:40:10,480
All right. So this step was really just
that first step in the planning process

1027
01:40:08,159 --> 01:40:14,840
for waste management. And the goal of
the study was to conduct a limited

1028
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:20,159
high-level review of capital cost and
feasibility. And um we wanted to

1029
01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:26,600
initiate conversations around the future
of solid waste management in Juno. Next

1030
01:40:23,280 --> 01:40:26,600
slide please.

1031
01:40:28,239 --> 01:40:34,400
And so given that this is an initial
highle study, there are several factors

1032
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:37,600
that could not be considered for the
study and so we made several

1033
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:41,199
assumptions. So we wanted to be
transparent so everyone is on the pa

1034
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:46,080
same page. So many of these assumptions
are listed on the slide here and I'll

1035
01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:50,239
highlight just a few of them. So the
first assumption that we made is that a

1036
01:40:48,400 --> 01:40:56,440
new transfer facility would be in the
lower Lemon Creek property and this is a

1037
01:40:53,000 --> 01:41:01,600
207 27 acre site that's owned by the
CBJ. So now we assume that the CBJ would

1038
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:05,840
need to address zoning requirements for
this property before construction and

1039
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:10,239
likely sighting would also be necessary
for construction of a new facility such

1040
01:41:08,159 --> 01:41:15,040
as for example a landfill or a waste
energy plant. And then jumping to that

1041
01:41:13,280 --> 01:41:19,920
third assumption there. So this really
highlights the results of the 2024 waste

1042
01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:24,880
characterization study uh which revealed
that up to 59% of waste in Juno is

1043
01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:29,280
categorized as either recyclable,
reusable or compostable with current

1044
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:32,119
diversion programs. So this means that
there is potential for increased waste

1045
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:37,199
diversion in
Juno. And then jumping forward to

1046
01:41:34,719 --> 01:41:40,880
assumption number five. Uh so in general
there are other factors that are outside

1047
01:41:38,960 --> 01:41:45,199
of the scope of the study that could
still impact capital and operating costs

1048
01:41:43,600 --> 01:41:49,760
and that includes things like the
limited construction season in Juno. Uh

1049
01:41:47,679 --> 01:41:54,400
the ultimate selected location of these
facilities and the chosen ownership and

1050
01:41:52,239 --> 01:41:58,080
operational model. And so because of
these factors, it's important to

1051
01:41:56,400 --> 01:42:02,560
remember that the costs that I present
in the next few slides um are just

1052
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:06,560
initial approximations for comparison
purposes. And so the CBJ will need to do

1053
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:10,320
more detailed cost estimates before
moving forward with significant

1054
01:42:08,639 --> 01:42:17,280
financial decisions or setting final
budgets for these projects. Next

1055
01:42:14,119 --> 01:42:23,400
slide. All right. And this diagram here
is is really the meat of the study. So

1056
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:28,080
it shows the flow of waste in each
scenario. And these dashed boxes on the

1057
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:32,080
screen, there's three dashed boxes. and
they indicate points where the CBJ has

1058
01:42:30,239 --> 01:42:37,119
an opportunity for increased control
over the waist stream. And as you'll

1059
01:42:34,639 --> 01:42:41,760
notice, as director mentioned, a
transfer facility, which is shown on the

1060
01:42:39,360 --> 01:42:46,159
box on the left, is a key component for
all three scenarios. And this transfer

1061
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:50,800
facility would serve as an interim waste
management solution while the CBJS

1062
01:42:48,159 --> 01:42:54,480
explores other disposal options. It
would also help to better manage large

1063
01:42:52,719 --> 01:42:59,199
influxes of waste from things like
tourism or de disaster debris. and it

1064
01:42:57,520 --> 01:43:03,760
could act as a centralized point for
waste management as well. All right. And

1065
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:07,840
then in the center of the diagram, you
have the three uh waste management

1066
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:12,080
scenarios. So at the top we have
scenario A. In this scenario, waste

1067
01:43:10,480 --> 01:43:16,199
would be routed from the transfer
facility to a new landfill in Juno for

1068
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:20,960
disposable for
disposal. And in this scenario,

1069
01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:25,119
recyclables would be sold and
transported to local export markets

1070
01:43:23,000 --> 01:43:29,520
ultimately. And then in the center we
have scenario B. In this scenario, waste

1071
01:43:27,679 --> 01:43:34,960
at the transfer facility would first be
consolidated and prepared for off-site

1072
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:39,760
shipping by barge. And so this scenario
would require a larger transfer facility

1073
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:44,560
because um than the other two scenarios
because there could be risks of

1074
01:43:41,199 --> 01:43:48,560
disrupted barge services. And then also
a quick thing I wanted to note about

1075
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:53,600
scenario B is that the c capital costs
for this scenario are lower compared to

1076
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:56,480
the other two scenarios because only the
transfer facility would need to be

1077
01:43:55,119 --> 01:44:01,360
constructed.
However, um the CBJ would need to

1078
01:43:59,280 --> 01:44:05,520
negotiate shipping costs and off-site
disposal and fuel search charges. And

1079
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:09,000
all of these factors could add up to
significant operational costs that were

1080
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:14,320
not included in the
study. And then finally at the B bottom,

1081
01:44:11,679 --> 01:44:17,679
scenario C. So in this scenario, all
waste recyclables from the transfer

1082
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:22,000
facility would be routed to a waste to
energy plant. And so there are a few

1083
01:44:20,480 --> 01:44:27,840
very important points that I want to
make about a waste to energy plant here.

1084
01:44:24,880 --> 01:44:32,880
Um, and the first is that the CBJ's
electricity currently comes from nearly

1085
01:44:29,679 --> 01:44:38,560
100% renewable hydroelectric power and
AEL does not provide energy credits for

1086
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:42,639
surplus generation. So, as it stands,
the power produced by a waste energy

1087
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:47,199
facility would not provide a direct
electricity benefit for the CBJ. And the

1088
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:51,440
second point to make here is that the
waist stream in Juno is substantially

1089
01:44:49,360 --> 01:44:56,159
smaller than other regions where waste
energy plants have been constructed. Uh

1090
01:44:53,840 --> 01:45:00,320
so Juno generates about 100 tons per day
of waste while the majority of waste to

1091
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:06,560
energy plants in the US are constructed
to operate at 800 tons per day uh tons

1092
01:45:03,600 --> 01:45:11,280
per day of waste or more. And so in
order to optimize the efficiency of the

1093
01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:15,360
waste energy plant uh it may not be in
Juno's best interest to divert waste for

1094
01:45:13,360 --> 01:45:19,679
recycling or composting because
essentially all of that waste would need

1095
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:24,639
to be used to optimize the efficiency
and

1096
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:24,639
operations. Next slide please.

1097
01:45:25,440 --> 01:45:32,480
All right. So now we'll look at costs.
And this slide looks at the anticipated

1098
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:37,040
cap capital costs for a new transfer
facility in particular. And so just to

1099
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:40,320
talk about methods very quickly to get
these estimates, we looked at the per

1100
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:44,159
unit construction costs of five
different transfer stations in the US.

1101
01:45:42,639 --> 01:45:48,719
And these transfer stations were at
various stages of project development,

1102
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:53,520
various sizes and locations to get a
range. and the costs were escalated with

1103
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:57,920
a cost index through December of 2024.
So, it's a snapshot in time. And we

1104
01:45:56,480 --> 01:46:01,600
chose these facilities for comparison
because they are relatively recent

1105
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:05,520
projects in small to medium building
sizes similar to Juno's needs. And I'll

1106
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:09,840
I'll mention that the facilities are
listed in that column on the left in the

1107
01:46:07,639 --> 01:46:13,760
table. Uh with the exception of that
Anchorage transfer facility in the

1108
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:19,040
middle. So, this is a larger facility as
you'll see, but it does provide a data

1109
01:46:15,679 --> 01:46:25,280
point for an Alaska specific project.
Now the the costs the forecasted costs

1110
01:46:21,280 --> 01:46:29,840
for Juno are on the right and the size
and the capacity of the transfer

1111
01:46:26,960 --> 01:46:34,159
facility will depend on the scenario. So
as I mentioned before a smaller transfer

1112
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:38,560
facility would likely be sufficient when
local disposal options are available and

1113
01:46:36,800 --> 01:46:43,199
that includes scenario A with the
landfill and scenario C with the waste

1114
01:46:40,159 --> 01:46:48,239
to energy plant. So, a smaller facility
size between 9,000 to 13,000 square feet

1115
01:46:46,400 --> 01:46:53,199
would cost between $9 million and $20
million in capital costs. And then on

1116
01:46:50,960 --> 01:46:58,880
the bottom right corner, we're showing
the um the capital cost for a transfer

1117
01:46:56,080 --> 01:47:02,639
facility that's larger to accommodate
increased storage for potential

1118
01:47:00,480 --> 01:47:07,360
disruptions in shipping for scenario B
with off-site shipment.

1119
01:47:04,880 --> 01:47:10,960
And so in this scenario, we um estimate
that we would need to accommodate 7 to

1120
01:47:09,040 --> 01:47:15,280
14 days of storage and additional
processing space. And this larger

1121
01:47:13,280 --> 01:47:20,239
facility would be sized between 13,000
and 26,000 square feet and would be

1122
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:26,000
estimated to cost between $14 million
and $40 million in

1123
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:33,920
capital. Next slide, please. Mr. Deputy
Mayor,

1124
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:38,480
Miss Miller Casman, we have a question.
Uh yes, ma'am. Uh we knew that uh

1125
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:43,440
previous times that we'd looked at waste
to energy that Juno didn't produce

1126
01:47:40,159 --> 01:47:47,920
enough. Did you look at an incinerator
so that we could potentially get rid of

1127
01:47:45,119 --> 01:47:54,159
that 100 tons or dent that 100 tons a
day but not uh convert it to energy? Uh

1128
01:47:51,840 --> 01:47:59,360
was an incinerator
uh looked at in in this process?

1129
01:47:57,679 --> 01:48:04,000
Uh director coach, would you like me to
answer that?

1130
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:08,320
Yes, please. All right. uh we did not
consider just an incineration without

1131
01:48:06,239 --> 01:48:13,280
energy capture in this analysis. We only
considered with energy capture to get

1132
01:48:11,040 --> 01:48:13,280
the

1133
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:21,600
benefit. Any follow-up questions on
that?

1134
01:48:20,000 --> 01:48:26,560
Doesn't appear so. So, please continue.
Thank you. Okay. Thank

1135
01:48:23,639 --> 01:48:31,199
you. All right. Um All right. So now
we'll present the landfill capital costs

1136
01:48:29,040 --> 01:48:34,719
and we use the same comparison method to
estimate landfill costs and the

1137
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:39,440
landfills that we considered on the left
in the table. Uh and it's important to

1138
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:43,679
note that the capital cost for landfills
can vary significantly based on the

1139
01:48:41,119 --> 01:48:47,000
landfill geometry and design parameters.
But for this estimate you we use very

1140
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:52,400
conservative
parameters. And the cost for a 50-year

1141
01:48:50,080 --> 01:48:57,159
landfill are at the top right. And we
estimated that a 50-year landfill would

1142
01:48:54,080 --> 01:49:01,760
cost between 50 million and $162
million. And now a 100red-year landfill

1143
01:48:59,760 --> 01:49:06,480
is also listed. It would cost nearly
double, but this would set the stage for

1144
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:10,719
more regional waste management.
And it's also important to note that the

1145
01:49:08,639 --> 01:49:14,880
there are differences in the timeline of
investment between a landfill compared

1146
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:18,639
to the transfer facility and the waste
to energy facilities that I mentioned

1147
01:49:17,040 --> 01:49:23,520
because the capital costs for landfills
are applied in phases as the cells reach

1148
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:27,119
capacity and new cells are constructed.
While in contrast, the capital cost for

1149
01:49:25,280 --> 01:49:30,719
transfer stations and waste energy
facilities are required upfront and

1150
01:49:29,360 --> 01:49:36,960
likely would require significant
replacement capital over the same time

1151
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:36,960
period. Next slide.

1152
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:46,400
All right. So, now looking at the waste
to energy facility capital costs. Uh,

1153
01:49:44,639 --> 01:49:50,400
and as you'll see, the results are print
presented differently here. And that's

1154
01:49:48,159 --> 01:49:54,400
because the Jacob's waste to energy team
could forecast costs by modeling using

1155
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:59,119
data from 18 different waste to energy
plants that were built in thei United

1156
01:49:56,480 --> 01:50:03,440
States, United Kingdom, and Asia. And
so, this graph plots the capital cost

1157
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:08,239
for constructing a waste to energy
facility. and that's on the y- axis per

1158
01:50:06,239 --> 01:50:12,960
megawatt of thermal energy. They're on
the x- axis. And the black dots that are

1159
01:50:11,119 --> 01:50:17,440
in the center represent the comparison
waste to energy plants, those 18

1160
01:50:15,199 --> 01:50:22,080
different waste energy plants. And the
orange dot on the top left of the plot

1161
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:26,719
indicates the forecasted capacity and
cost for Juno at 30,000 tons of waste

1162
01:50:24,800 --> 01:50:30,960
generated per year.
Uh and as shown by this orange dot, a

1163
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:35,239
small waste energy facility to process
30,000 tons per year year of waste would

1164
01:50:33,119 --> 01:50:40,159
cost around $90
million. Uh and I will note that the

1165
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:44,639
data on small waste to energy facilities
is limited which could introduce some

1166
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:49,119
uncertainty in the capital costs and so
these are rough order of magnitude

1167
01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:52,080
estimates and the larger facilities in
population dense areas are more

1168
01:50:50,639 --> 01:50:57,600
typically built because of the
operational efficiency at a higher waste

1169
01:50:54,400 --> 01:51:00,960
capacity. Um and also the construction
costs of waste energy plants are mainly

1170
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:04,960
impacted by the facility size and the
caloric value of the waist

1171
01:51:02,600 --> 01:51:08,560
stream. Um and as I mentioned before,
waste energy can disincentivize

1172
01:51:06,639 --> 01:51:13,719
diversion or source reduction of waste
because of the need for more waste to

1173
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:18,000
operate the facility
efficiently. All right, next slide. Miss

1174
01:51:16,639 --> 01:51:22,159
Miller Casman, I have a question for
you. Yep. Go ahead. Following up on Mr.

1175
01:51:20,239 --> 01:51:27,440
Bryson's question about the incinerator,
we do get questions about that. I guess

1176
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:31,440
with your, you know, expertise, could
you just let us know the rationale for

1177
01:51:29,119 --> 01:51:35,920
why that, you know, wasn't evaluated?
I'm sure there is one, but Sure. Well, I

1178
01:51:34,400 --> 01:51:40,719
will say, you know, I would say that
this was decision that was made in

1179
01:51:37,599 --> 01:51:45,520
conjunction with the CBJ. Um, but my
understanding is that incinerators alone

1180
01:51:43,199 --> 01:51:49,599
without, you know, just incinerators in
general, we're seeing more air quality

1181
01:51:47,840 --> 01:51:54,480
permitting requirements. There are many
regulations for incinerators. And so

1182
01:51:52,159 --> 01:52:00,800
there are, you know, the cost to build
an incinerator in general would be high.

1183
01:51:57,360 --> 01:52:06,880
And um so without the additional energy
benefit and therefore potential revenue

1184
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:11,760
benefit from either a um just pure
direct energy or a a heat and energy

1185
01:52:09,199 --> 01:52:20,040
combination just would make you know
somewhat of a wasteful um facility to

1186
01:52:14,880 --> 01:52:20,040
build. Very good. Thank you for that.

1187
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:29,920
All
right. Okay. So, based on this uh this

1188
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:33,760
initial study, we present a preliminary
ranking and these are based on criteria

1189
01:52:32,000 --> 01:52:38,080
that we agreed upon with the CBJ. And
that includes things like capital costs,

1190
01:52:35,679 --> 01:52:43,119
the implementation timeline, diversion
goals, and the relative ability to

1191
01:52:40,880 --> 01:52:46,719
address Juno's waist stream in the near
term given the impending closure of the

1192
01:52:45,119 --> 01:52:51,119
existing landfill. And I do apologize
for the small text. We wanted to present

1193
01:52:49,119 --> 01:52:55,599
all the information on the slide here,
but I will say that the two columns on

1194
01:52:53,360 --> 01:52:58,679
the left are what I'll focus on for now.
And we can address the other columns

1195
01:52:57,760 --> 01:53:03,440
during
Q&A. Uh, but based on this initial

1196
01:53:01,440 --> 01:53:08,000
analysis, scenario B with off-site
shipment is ranked first, followed by

1197
01:53:05,440 --> 01:53:12,320
scenario A with a new landfill. Now, I
will say that both are worth pursuing at

1198
01:53:09,840 --> 01:53:16,080
this time. Uh, a new landfill comes with
high capital costs and a lengthy

1199
01:53:13,920 --> 01:53:20,040
regulatory process. Though we do
recognize that relying on off island

1200
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:24,800
private landfills has its own inherent
risk and we suggest that the CBJ explore

1201
01:53:22,960 --> 01:53:28,599
funding options and ownership models for
a new landfill while engaging with

1202
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:33,040
shipping partners and off-site
landfills. Now scenario C with the waste

1203
01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:36,800
to energy facility does rank lowest for
now. Um, and that's due to those high

1204
01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:41,199
relative construction costs that I
mentioned, the low operating efficiency

1205
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:46,159
with Juno's waist stream, lack of an
energy benefit for Juno, as I mentioned,

1206
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:49,360
and especially the need for specialized
labor and technologies to build these

1207
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:54,000
types of facilities, which could drive
costs even higher. Uh, and I will say

1208
01:53:52,480 --> 01:53:57,840
that these rankings are just a starting
point and are likely to change as the

1209
01:53:55,760 --> 01:54:03,520
CBJ investigates operating costs,
funding opportunities, and starts to

1210
01:53:59,520 --> 01:54:05,840
engage with partners and vendors.
Next

1211
01:54:06,599 --> 01:54:15,119
slide. All right. So, recommended next
steps.

1212
01:54:10,360 --> 01:54:19,840
Um, so the first we're we're hoping that
um the results of the study could help

1213
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:23,040
this assembly and the CBJ determine the
desired level of control that they would

1214
01:54:21,599 --> 01:54:28,400
like over the future of waste management
in Juno because this decision is really

1215
01:54:25,280 --> 01:54:32,719
key to inform the subsequent next steps.
Number two, we recommend constructing a

1216
01:54:30,239 --> 01:54:36,520
transfer facility as was mentioned. Um,
and the transfer facility should be used

1217
01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:42,400
no matter which scenario is chosen and
ideally include design considerations

1218
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:45,920
for future expansion if desired. And
this is especially important given the

1219
01:54:44,239 --> 01:54:48,840
upcoming closure of the landfill which
could happen before another disposal

1220
01:54:47,599 --> 01:54:53,920
facility can be
completed. Uh, and I'll note that there

1221
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:58,119
are many ownership and operating models
available to help finance and run these

1222
01:54:56,000 --> 01:55:03,360
facilities. So for example, one type of
partnership um the public entity may

1223
01:55:01,119 --> 01:55:08,480
provide the land for this facility and
work with a private entity to design,

1224
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:11,599
build and or operate the facility. And
so that division of control and

1225
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:16,320
financing is determined by agreements
between the public and and the private

1226
01:55:13,199 --> 01:55:20,239
entities at that time. Uh number three,
the CBJ can start to gauge operational

1227
01:55:18,400 --> 01:55:25,199
costs by engaging with shipping partners
and haulers. And finally, the CBJ should

1228
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:29,840
continue to move forward with additional
studies for one or more of these

1229
01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:33,440
scenarios or facilities. And in the next
phase, we recommend an in-depth analysis

1230
01:55:31,840 --> 01:55:38,800
of operating costs or a life cycle
evaluation of one or more of these

1231
01:55:36,440 --> 01:55:44,480
scenarios. And I believe the last slide
is just our contact information. And I

1232
01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:48,199
will hand it back over to Director Coach
to wrap us up.

1233
01:55:49,360 --> 01:55:57,360
All right. Well, thank you. Um, in terms
of, you know, our coming to you today

1234
01:55:55,040 --> 01:56:05,599
and and functionally what's what's our
ask um that I feel like we keep building

1235
01:56:01,840 --> 01:56:09,599
on uh this this topic of, you know, do
we want to does the community want and

1236
01:56:07,840 --> 01:56:12,960
does the assembly want some level of
control in in their waste? Do we want

1237
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:17,119
something different than the model that
we have right now or do we like the

1238
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:23,280
model uh that we have right now in terms
of our uh waste being handled in in the

1239
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:28,080
private sector? Um and as I mentioned,
we did the waste characterization study.

1240
01:56:25,679 --> 01:56:33,520
We've gotten uh some more information on
the capital costs of the three different

1241
01:56:29,920 --> 01:56:40,480
options from this particular study. Uh I
would recommend that uh we move forward

1242
01:56:36,880 --> 01:56:43,679
and look uh at the get a little bit more
essentially each of these these studies

1243
01:56:42,239 --> 01:56:47,920
is getting a little bit more granular
and trying to fill out a picture of what

1244
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:52,800
a waste future could look like a
different waste future a waste future

1245
01:56:49,520 --> 01:56:58,719
that CBJ had some level of control in.
Um, and that next level of study, if the

1246
01:56:56,000 --> 01:57:03,119
assembly uh wanted us to move forward
with that, would also drill down and try

1247
01:57:00,719 --> 01:57:09,400
and get some more clarity about what the
costs would be for residents to dispose

1248
01:57:06,400 --> 01:57:14,800
of of their waste under these various
options. Um, now I don't think they'll

1249
01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:20,800
get uh there's there's a lot of uh
policy decisions to be made along along

1250
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:26,880
the way. Um it could be, you know, there
uh the cost to the end user can change

1251
01:57:23,679 --> 01:57:32,719
based on whether or not CBJ wants uh
wants waste to be essentially an

1252
01:57:29,119 --> 01:57:36,639
enterprise fund completely uh paying for
itself, whether there's some level of

1253
01:57:34,320 --> 01:57:42,080
subsidy. So there will still be a lot of
discussions and policy points moving

1254
01:57:38,880 --> 01:57:46,880
forward, but I would recommend um that
we move forward and and take this next

1255
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:51,360
step to try and further flesh out uh
these three options. But probably this

1256
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:56,639
emphasis on on this these two options
which would be uh shipping uh our waste

1257
01:57:54,639 --> 01:58:01,599
out and in general when you ship waste
out um in this part of the world you are

1258
01:57:58,800 --> 01:58:06,800
shipping to Washington or Oregon. Uh
there's a major landfill in Roosevelt,

1259
01:58:04,560 --> 01:58:11,760
Washington, and another large one in
Columbia Ridge, Oregon. So we would

1260
01:58:09,360 --> 01:58:18,080
likely be those are mega landfills.
They're regional landfills. Um and look

1261
01:58:15,040 --> 01:58:24,560
a little bit more closely at at that. Um
and then that's I think probably the

1262
01:58:20,800 --> 01:58:29,679
most actionable um step that I wanted to
pose to you to tonight and to see what

1263
01:58:26,719 --> 01:58:33,920
the as the will of the assembly is. Uh
then the the second item in terms of

1264
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:40,960
guidance requested because the next one
doesn't require funding but uh as we

1265
01:58:37,280 --> 01:58:47,599
both mentioned if CBJ wanted to have any
level of control in our waist stream uh

1266
01:58:44,320 --> 01:58:53,440
and we wanted to be involved in disposal
uh all any kind of disposal option has a

1267
01:58:51,119 --> 01:58:56,320
transfer station on the front of it.
whether you're shipping it the waste

1268
01:58:55,119 --> 01:59:02,000
out, whether you're taking it to a
landfill, whether you're going waste to

1269
01:58:58,280 --> 01:59:07,599
energy. Um, and we are about to begin a
planning uh study for uh the Lemon Creek

1270
01:59:05,280 --> 01:59:13,119
gravel pit. We're going to do some
planning there. Um, that's where the

1271
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:18,560
zero waste campus would would be. That's
where we would have our compost

1272
01:59:16,080 --> 01:59:23,280
facility. That's where when the waste
management landfill fills up and uh our

1273
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:28,159
recycling center can no longer be
located there, that would be located at

1274
01:59:25,599 --> 01:59:34,320
that location. Um, and I just wanted to
gauge uh your interest in our even just

1275
01:59:32,159 --> 01:59:39,280
planning to have a transfer station as
we're doing this planning process for

1276
01:59:36,159 --> 01:59:44,960
this for this waste campus. is a a
transfer station interesting or enticing

1277
01:59:42,080 --> 01:59:49,840
enough for us to even plan for it as
we're we're looking for the use of that

1278
01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:55,520
that site. So, those are the two that's
the the two items I'll leave you with

1279
01:59:51,360 --> 01:59:59,840
and we'll I'll I'll pause for questions.
Thank you, Director Cotch. Questions

1280
01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:04,880
from the assembly. I had Mr. Kelly,
Missandis, Miss Atkinson, and then Miss

1281
02:00:02,320 --> 02:00:10,639
Wall.
Thank you. Um, looking at these u these

1282
02:00:07,599 --> 02:00:15,760
hefty fries, it all looks uh pretty
daunting, but I I was wondering if you

1283
02:00:13,320 --> 02:00:20,080
also I imagine like some of these are
kind of spread out over 10 years. I was

1284
02:00:18,639 --> 02:00:23,679
wondering if you can maybe give a little
bit of a breakdown on when we would be

1285
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:27,920
needing to make some of these
investments.

1286
02:00:26,400 --> 02:00:32,560
Thank you through the chair to Mr.
Kelly. I I'll get started and then I'll

1287
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:37,280
see if Tara wants to add anything else.
Um, I think that we're a little ways

1288
02:00:34,800 --> 02:00:43,520
away from actually coming to you with a
request for a CIP or a a revenue bond or

1289
02:00:41,760 --> 02:00:48,960
that sort of thing in terms of putting
the cash up for a a transfer station.

1290
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:54,320
Um, I think the next step would really
be just looking at this uh South Lemon

1291
02:00:52,080 --> 02:01:00,400
Creek gravel pit, planning out what we
want on a waste campus. um and and

1292
02:00:57,920 --> 02:01:05,599
continuing to evaluate, you know, moving
forward with uh drilling down on the

1293
02:01:02,320 --> 02:01:11,040
operational study, looking at at costs
and then if there were uh we that

1294
02:01:08,400 --> 02:01:14,800
information was gathered. Um and if
there was a point where uh the assembly

1295
02:01:13,040 --> 02:01:19,760
really felt like, okay, yes, we do want
to have a hand in our waste destiny. We

1296
02:01:18,080 --> 02:01:26,239
think that's an important thing for the
community. Then um Tara started talking

1297
02:01:23,199 --> 02:01:31,520
a little bit about there are various uh
I think financing mechanisms that

1298
02:01:28,239 --> 02:01:37,440
communities use for um for paying for a
transfer station and it it it doesn't

1299
02:01:33,520 --> 02:01:41,360
necessarily just need to be um having a
getting all the cash up front

1300
02:01:39,199 --> 02:01:46,480
functionally and building it ourselves.
We could enter into some sort of

1301
02:01:43,119 --> 02:01:50,400
long-term agreement with a third party
um that's somewhat similar. where it's

1302
02:01:48,560 --> 02:01:54,719
not an identical situation, but somewhat
similar to what we've done with um

1303
02:01:52,480 --> 02:02:00,080
recycling, for example. We have a
long-term I think it's 30-year contract

1304
02:01:58,080 --> 02:02:04,800
um almost with with waste management
that we'd had in place, and the cost of

1305
02:02:02,719 --> 02:02:09,679
that the building was built into that
long-term contract. So, there are there

1306
02:02:07,280 --> 02:02:15,119
are other mechanisms, but I think that,
you know, that's uh probably a couple

1307
02:02:12,080 --> 02:02:20,840
couple years away.
Follow up, Mr. Kelly,

1308
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:25,360
thank you. And actually, yeah,
I So, so yeah, I guess like what I'm

1309
02:02:23,440 --> 02:02:28,639
kind of just looking at like there's
with these there's different stages. So,

1310
02:02:26,800 --> 02:02:32,000
we have can we have the the transfer
station, which sounds like it's common

1311
02:02:30,320 --> 02:02:36,800
to to all of those. So, I'm kind of
wondering like like when we would need

1312
02:02:34,639 --> 02:02:40,239
to have like the capital ready ready for
that, you know, with all the options

1313
02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:44,080
that that you guys will come to us, but
like when are we going to be ready for

1314
02:02:42,239 --> 02:02:51,520
at each of these stages? like assuming
we give you direction today and we want

1315
02:02:47,040 --> 02:02:54,800
to do such and such option. Um like when
are we going to need to have the capital

1316
02:02:52,880 --> 02:02:59,280
for a transfer station? When we going to
need to have the capital for like if we

1317
02:02:56,320 --> 02:03:04,719
wanted if we wanted to do a dump uh with
or a second a second dump when we going

1318
02:03:02,159 --> 02:03:07,719
to need to have that capital um be
thinking

1319
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:17,840
through the chair to Mr. Kelly. I think
if uh today the assembly said we want a

1320
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:23,119
transfer station go forth. Uh we would
probably go back and we would huddle and

1321
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:28,880
we would most likely come uh back to you
with some uh some sort of financing

1322
02:03:26,159 --> 02:03:32,320
agreement with uh another vendor
somewhat similar to what I mentioned for

1323
02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:36,719
recycle works. we would have
conversations with different companies,

1324
02:03:34,480 --> 02:03:42,880
private companies that do this sort of
work um and likely come to you to that

1325
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:48,159
would be I think probably the most
feasible way to get that rolling in in

1326
02:03:46,239 --> 02:03:52,560
the short term without having to have
all of the the cash essentially up

1327
02:03:50,320 --> 02:03:57,679
front. You enter into a long-term
agreement. And I'm not sure if if Tara

1328
02:03:55,360 --> 02:04:01,440
um not sure if you have any other uh
comments that you want to add about

1329
02:03:59,040 --> 02:04:06,880
public private partnerships and some of
Jacob's um expertise there. Yeah, I can

1330
02:04:04,719 --> 02:04:11,520
I can add on a bit and I'm sure Lindsay
will have some more to say on that

1331
02:04:08,080 --> 02:04:16,080
topic. Um so I I did want to just also
um dive into the details of the process

1332
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:19,920
a little bit. And so what we've talked
about is understanding operating costs

1333
02:04:18,239 --> 02:04:24,159
for all the facilities is important, but
also a public engagement step would be

1334
02:04:22,639 --> 02:04:29,040
critical. Have starting to have those
public discussions. And then from there,

1335
02:04:27,119 --> 02:04:33,440
you know, there's a few steps before you
just go into the construction and that

1336
02:04:31,199 --> 02:04:38,080
includes permitting and design as well.
Um, and so there you can bite off

1337
02:04:36,159 --> 02:04:41,679
something like this in in smaller chunks
once you make the decision to move

1338
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:47,040
forward with the facility. Lindsay, you
want to add on to any of that? Sure. And

1339
02:04:44,480 --> 02:04:51,840
as as far as the different models there
are, you know, with the the various

1340
02:04:48,880 --> 02:04:57,840
public private partnerships, you can
structure it in whatever way is, you

1341
02:04:54,719 --> 02:05:02,800
know, best suits you. So, some projects
have a publicly owned piece of property

1342
02:05:00,480 --> 02:05:08,719
and then the rest facility is actually
funded by a private entity. Um sometimes

1343
02:05:06,159 --> 02:05:13,920
you it's best if you have your public
entity is the owner of the facility as

1344
02:05:12,159 --> 02:05:19,360
well and then they just look out for
contract operators. So the next phase of

1345
02:05:16,719 --> 02:05:24,719
the project we could explore uh you know
which of those CBJ is most interested in

1346
02:05:22,320 --> 02:05:30,239
and do some pros and cons of the the
various you know risks associated with

1347
02:05:26,639 --> 02:05:35,119
each model. Um but the more you know
control that you want um then you you

1348
02:05:33,440 --> 02:05:39,679
take a little bit more of that public
ownership

1349
02:05:36,920 --> 02:05:44,760
model. Thank you.
Thank you. Uh I'd miss Hugh Scandi next.

1350
02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:53,760
Thank you Mr. Chair. Thank you all for
this presentation.

1351
02:05:49,360 --> 02:05:58,960
I'm trying to get a better sense of um I
thought previously that we had said we

1352
02:05:56,080 --> 02:06:04,000
do want some relative control over our
waste destiny because I think we

1353
02:06:01,280 --> 02:06:09,040
recognize at this point that having it
work poorly with a having no control.

1354
02:06:07,440 --> 02:06:13,440
We're not really ever going to get to
our diversion goals if we don't have

1355
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:18,520
that control either of the waist stream
or of the waste flow.

1356
02:06:16,560 --> 02:06:23,679
And I
understand

1357
02:06:20,360 --> 02:06:28,880
there's wise or you know decision points
all along the way and then you know that

1358
02:06:25,520 --> 02:06:35,599
requires a lot more study with each
decision point but I'm trying to

1359
02:06:31,800 --> 02:06:39,360
determine with the next step um with
that

1360
02:06:36,840 --> 02:06:43,599
cost study that you're talking about and
forgive me the slide's not up however

1361
02:06:41,360 --> 02:06:49,840
you characterized it but if you could
talk a little more about that and help

1362
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:53,360
character that for me what you expect to
get out of that or what that product

1363
02:06:51,679 --> 02:06:58,960
would look like because it's very hard
for me to imagine that you would have

1364
02:06:56,320 --> 02:07:03,760
anything that's uh you know like a
really

1365
02:07:00,440 --> 02:07:08,000
useful what comes out of it when there's
so many still unknowns because how can

1366
02:07:06,480 --> 02:07:11,760
you know the operational cost of
something if you don't even know how

1367
02:07:09,760 --> 02:07:15,280
much the thing costs you know we know
everything costs more right now than we

1368
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:20,960
think it'll cost I'll shut up but could
you talk a a little more about that.

1369
02:07:17,840 --> 02:07:25,520
Sure. I I'll start off. Um actually, I
guess I should ask director, is that all

1370
02:07:22,239 --> 02:07:30,639
right with you if I kick it off? Uh yes.
And I I think I just frame it in terms

1371
02:07:27,520 --> 02:07:34,719
of also just uh before I hand it off to
Tara. Uh that some of the things I'm

1372
02:07:33,360 --> 02:07:39,679
envisioning that we would do with this
next step. For example, we talk about uh

1373
02:07:37,760 --> 02:07:43,280
this current study talks about a
transfer station for shipping, but there

1374
02:07:41,920 --> 02:07:48,960
hasn't there haven't been any
discussions with AML. We haven't had uh

1375
02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:52,800
those sort of discussions. I'm like,
well, what does that shipping really

1376
02:07:50,639 --> 02:07:57,920
look like? We haven't had I mentioned
the name of uh two major regional

1377
02:07:55,599 --> 02:08:03,040
landfills in in the Pacific Northwest.
We haven't engaged them to talk about uh

1378
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:07,040
what contracts could look like, you
know, for them to accept our waste. We

1379
02:08:05,119 --> 02:08:10,560
just have there are a lot of uh it's a
little bit I feel like it's like peeling

1380
02:08:08,320 --> 02:08:16,079
back this onion and you're right we're
we probably uh at the next after that

1381
02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:20,480
next study if we got the appro approval
to move forward we probably wouldn't

1382
02:08:17,679 --> 02:08:24,800
have all of the answers but we're we're
getting more and more refined and with

1383
02:08:22,560 --> 02:08:29,119
that I would hand it over to Tara. Thank
you. Yes, that's excellent framing. Um,

1384
02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:32,880
so you mentioned several key points
there and that is having those

1385
02:08:30,800 --> 02:08:37,679
conversations with the the partners and
the vendors and that is a a key aspect

1386
02:08:35,320 --> 02:08:42,159
because that will provide a lot of
information that we don't have today.

1387
02:08:39,280 --> 02:08:46,880
For example, are these landfills
available for off-site shipping given

1388
02:08:44,079 --> 02:08:50,079
the waste generation in Juno? Um, you
know, at any point along the way we

1389
02:08:48,560 --> 02:08:54,880
could uncover something that could
eliminate one of these options, uh, one

1390
02:08:52,800 --> 02:09:00,800
of these three options or put an option
back on the table. Um but I I'll say

1391
02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:07,440
that for the operating cost evaluation
that that we are you know we are uh

1392
02:09:03,920 --> 02:09:11,119
proposing here is really to look at um
you know talking to those vendors

1393
02:09:09,199 --> 02:09:17,760
understanding what the forecasting costs
are also um obtaining estimates for

1394
02:09:14,239 --> 02:09:21,840
shipping rates for example as well as um
some construction estimates and

1395
02:09:19,760 --> 02:09:26,000
understanding for waste energy for
example are there vendors available and

1396
02:09:24,320 --> 02:09:29,679
willing to build a waste to energy
facility in Juno. So those are some of

1397
02:09:28,079 --> 02:09:34,320
the key questions that we would want to
ask. We could also evaluate uh tipping

1398
02:09:32,639 --> 02:09:38,159
and collection fees under the different
scenarios which would be important

1399
02:09:35,840 --> 02:09:41,800
information for the public to have to
make some of these decisions.

1400
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:50,719
Follow up, Miss Scandies. Yeah, just a
quick followup because you have some

1401
02:09:47,280 --> 02:09:56,079
very gross uh estimates for capital
costs. It the shipping trash one. that

1402
02:09:53,760 --> 02:10:02,320
one. I completely understand how you get
that refined, but for something like

1403
02:09:59,119 --> 02:10:05,599
operating the you you it sounds like
essentially you would dial in and do

1404
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:12,599
more study on what the capital cost
would more realistically look like. Is

1405
02:10:08,159 --> 02:10:12,599
this just vary back in the napkin?

1406
02:10:13,040 --> 02:10:21,239
That is the option. I'm more like tell
me how you winnow that down from what

1407
02:10:17,760 --> 02:10:21,239
you've done here.

1408
02:10:21,440 --> 02:10:29,760
Director, do you would you like to start
it off?

1409
02:10:24,880 --> 02:10:33,440
Go ahead, Tara. Okay. Um, so we it all
depends on what level of analysis you

1410
02:10:31,760 --> 02:10:36,560
would like to do. So we could do another
back of the napkin for operational

1411
02:10:35,199 --> 02:10:42,239
costs, which again would just be high
level trying to ever uncover, you know,

1412
02:10:39,440 --> 02:10:48,320
failure points of these scenarios um and
also high level operating costs. We

1413
02:10:44,560 --> 02:10:52,000
could also speak to other um landfills
within the Alaska region to understand

1414
02:10:49,840 --> 02:10:57,280
what their operating costs would be and
evaluate how that would change customer

1415
02:10:54,400 --> 02:11:02,239
rates um is a very important factor in
all of this is understanding with a new

1416
02:11:00,320 --> 02:11:07,840
with construction of a new landfill and
once it's up and running for one you

1417
02:11:05,679 --> 02:11:11,679
know what size of landfill should we
consider is it something where we would

1418
02:11:10,079 --> 02:11:18,840
like to consider a regional approach or
just local for Juno and how Do those

1419
02:11:14,159 --> 02:11:18,840
costs influence what customers will pay?

1420
02:11:20,560 --> 02:11:27,760
Miss Atkinson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh this is your

1421
02:11:25,119 --> 02:11:30,239
staff. Uh seems like unless we decide to
throw up our hands and wait until the

1422
02:11:29,040 --> 02:11:34,320
landfill closes, we're going to be
looking at a transfer station. Um my

1423
02:11:32,880 --> 02:11:39,119
only question is if we're putting it
potentially into a site planning

1424
02:11:36,040 --> 02:11:42,719
process, how different is the transfer
station for those three scenarios? Is it

1425
02:11:41,040 --> 02:11:45,599
like is your generic transferation to
work for no matter what direction we go

1426
02:11:44,079 --> 02:11:50,159
or do we kind of have to call our shot
when we're doing something like site

1427
02:11:47,199 --> 02:11:54,280
planning
through the chair to Miss Atinson. Uh

1428
02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:59,560
Diana Robinson, environmental project
specialist. Um oh my gosh, I just

1429
02:11:57,440 --> 02:12:05,360
completely lost my train of thought on
that. Went through my whole intro. Um

1430
02:12:03,920 --> 02:12:08,960
will you repeat the question? Transfer
stations.

1431
02:12:07,360 --> 02:12:14,400
Transfer stations. Yes.
as a transportation. So what I would

1432
02:12:11,199 --> 02:12:18,719
recommend and uh I recommend this for
all of the facilities that we're

1433
02:12:16,079 --> 02:12:25,360
planning uh I recommend planning for a
phased approach right so we know that we

1434
02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:30,400
will need that smaller transfer station
footprint regardless um you know it's

1435
02:12:28,400 --> 02:12:35,360
really common in solid waste and please
correct me if I'm wrong Tara but uh to

1436
02:12:32,800 --> 02:12:39,760
to plan in these phases right for
population growth

1437
02:12:37,159 --> 02:12:44,719
degrowth additions of new communities
into like a regional waste authority. So

1438
02:12:42,800 --> 02:12:49,679
that would be my recommendation is that
we start with that smaller footprint to

1439
02:12:47,199 --> 02:12:53,760
just get you know we're kind of with all
of this there is a universe of

1440
02:12:51,920 --> 02:12:58,159
possibilities right we're trying to just
narrow it down to what is going to be

1441
02:12:55,679 --> 02:13:02,239
workable for Juno so that would be my
recommendation is um it just for the

1442
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:08,079
purposes of what Denise and I are
requesting um for the zero waste campus

1443
02:13:04,960 --> 02:13:11,599
that is more like a placeholder for a
space on a map that that's kind of the

1444
02:13:10,159 --> 02:13:15,760
level of detail we're looking at
currently. Um, but you know that's still

1445
02:13:14,159 --> 02:13:18,760
starting that ball rolling, right? So
that's

1446
02:13:19,679 --> 02:13:25,360
Miss Atkinson. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just to be clear, so generally what you

1447
02:13:23,760 --> 02:13:29,360
guys would do would say we will need
this much transfer station for any of

1448
02:13:27,440 --> 02:13:32,560
these options and when we get more clear
direction, we'll start adding on to it

1449
02:13:30,639 --> 02:13:38,079
for whatever option. Correct. Okay.
Thank you,

1450
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:41,960
Miss Wolf. Thank you, Chair Smith. I
think this kind of follows on that

1451
02:13:39,440 --> 02:13:48,239
question nicely.
Um, I think when I first started getting

1452
02:13:45,280 --> 02:13:53,119
involved in city things, and this was
maybe inaccurate, but I had the idea in

1453
02:13:50,639 --> 02:13:58,079
my head that someone had told me that
we'd likely never be able to be

1454
02:13:55,599 --> 02:14:02,800
permitted to have another landfill in
Juno. And, you know, you would have

1455
02:14:00,159 --> 02:14:09,040
never permitted a landfill in the middle
of a salmon flood plane. And, you know,

1456
02:14:05,840 --> 02:14:13,679
that that would be very challenging. Um,
is that still a challenge or do we in in

1457
02:14:11,920 --> 02:14:20,159
these scenarios, I know we were talking
about potential transfer sites at Lemon

1458
02:14:17,400 --> 02:14:25,679
Creek that at that property? Are we
talking about potential landfill there

1459
02:14:22,920 --> 02:14:30,079
or how would we go about identifying a
site if that's a

1460
02:14:28,119 --> 02:14:34,159
possibility? Through the chair to Miss
Wall, I'm going to get started and then

1461
02:14:31,679 --> 02:14:39,280
I'll see if uh Miss Robinson wants to
add anything else. Uh, I think when

1462
02:14:37,280 --> 02:14:42,880
people think about the permitting for a
landfill, they think a lot about the

1463
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:49,360
current situation that we're in, which
is an unlined landfill on the edge of of

1464
02:14:46,480 --> 02:14:53,360
a a wetland. Uh, I don't anticipate that
we would be able to even get that sort

1465
02:14:52,000 --> 02:14:58,400
of facility. Like, I don't think that
landfill could be permitted probably

1466
02:14:55,040 --> 02:15:03,040
today. Uh, but you can permit landfills.
uh they just oftentimes they're now, you

1467
02:15:01,360 --> 02:15:09,440
know, as as you might imagine, the the
rules tend to get more strict over time.

1468
02:15:06,159 --> 02:15:15,520
You tend to have uh lined landfills. Um
but the permitting process is

1469
02:15:12,320 --> 02:15:19,040
um it's possible, but it is um probably
going to be ownorous. I mean, anytime

1470
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:25,119
that you do anything with with waste,
there's often times the neighborhood is

1471
02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:30,079
not necessarily uh in favor of it. Um,
permitting for landfills generally takes

1472
02:15:26,960 --> 02:15:35,119
a really long time. Uh, I would I would
anticipate that there'd probably be a

1473
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:39,679
lower level of push back, for lack of a
better term, for a transfer station, but

1474
02:15:37,520 --> 02:15:43,679
it would still be handling waste. Uh,
and I would still imagine would get a

1475
02:15:42,159 --> 02:15:47,280
lot that process would get a lot of
scrutiny, but I still think it's

1476
02:15:45,280 --> 02:15:55,199
possible. Not sure if you have anything
to add. Yeah. Uh, I would add a transfer

1477
02:15:52,639 --> 02:16:01,280
station is a relatively low lift in
terms of permitting. Um, this it it

1478
02:15:58,719 --> 02:16:05,760
especially in the state of Alaska. Um,
very minimal permit requirements

1479
02:16:03,760 --> 02:16:11,040
compared to a landfill. Denise is
correct. Um, landfills take a long time

1480
02:16:08,800 --> 02:16:15,760
to permit, but not necessarily because
of the environmental review process.

1481
02:16:13,440 --> 02:16:19,760
It's I think everyone here is familiar
just the public process of going through

1482
02:16:17,679 --> 02:16:24,880
making all these decisions, right? It
takes a very long time to do any solid

1483
02:16:22,639 --> 02:16:28,639
waste planning. It doesn't happen very
often. Like something like this doesn't

1484
02:16:27,040 --> 02:16:32,880
happen very often. This is kind of a
unique opportunity to retool the entire

1485
02:16:31,199 --> 02:16:37,439
waste system here, which is not
something municipalities get to do very

1486
02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:42,240
often. Um but on the flip side, right,
there's not a lot of examples of that.

1487
02:16:39,800 --> 02:16:46,080
So, and there's not a lot of examples of
a

1488
02:16:43,080 --> 02:16:49,920
municipality taking control after not
having it for a very long time. So,

1489
02:16:47,760 --> 02:16:56,160
that's going to add time to that public
process, right? So, but environmentally

1490
02:16:53,359 --> 02:17:02,319
um with modern landfills and engineering
changes, I I think the landfill you

1491
02:16:58,960 --> 02:17:06,399
could permit it in in Juno.
And I'll let Tara add anything if she

1492
02:17:04,559 --> 02:17:10,719
disagrees.
I don't disagree. I would just say that

1493
02:17:08,240 --> 02:17:14,479
a sighting study would be a step in
moving towards a landfill is is doing a

1494
02:17:12,719 --> 02:17:18,000
sighting study to uncover where an
appropriate location would be for the

1495
02:17:15,840 --> 02:17:22,080
landfill.
As well as you have followup. Very good.

1496
02:17:20,240 --> 02:17:27,840
Mr. Bryson,
thank you, Mr. Deputy Mayor. Um, what's

1497
02:17:25,439 --> 02:17:33,519
kind of gotten us into this position is
that we don't own the stream or the

1498
02:17:31,359 --> 02:17:40,160
holding facility.
in one of the scenarios where we ship

1499
02:17:36,719 --> 02:17:44,960
down south. To me, that just adds a
third entity that we don't control. So,

1500
02:17:42,559 --> 02:17:48,880
we still won't control the stream. We
still won't control the transportation

1501
02:17:46,880 --> 02:17:52,559
because that'll be AML. And we won't
control the

1502
02:17:50,280 --> 02:17:58,479
destination as we're trying to solve
this. and we went um I'm just saying uh

1503
02:17:56,240 --> 02:18:04,719
maybe we picked Oregon and then Oregon
says we no longer want any other state's

1504
02:18:02,080 --> 02:18:09,920
trash to be brought to Oregon. And so
now we've done all this work and the

1505
02:18:08,160 --> 02:18:15,639
state that we want to ship our stuff to
and then we're paying God knows how much

1506
02:18:12,479 --> 02:18:19,880
oil to ship our trash down
south. So you have another environmental

1507
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:25,920
issue there.
Um, how does shipping our trash

1508
02:18:23,679 --> 02:18:30,319
eliminate the problems that we're trying
to solve right now of not controlling

1509
02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:36,319
our trash? It seems that a transfer
station to ship our waste out just makes

1510
02:18:34,080 --> 02:18:43,399
our it just literally adds a third
element of of unknowns. How can shipping

1511
02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:50,800
waste down south for mis for a
municipality be a sustainable long-term

1512
02:18:47,559 --> 02:18:54,639
solution when we just be facing the same
problems that we're facing today? I I'm

1513
02:18:52,719 --> 02:19:02,399
I'm not seeing how shipping is helpful.
Maybe somebody could help explain that

1514
02:18:58,559 --> 02:19:07,200
through the chair uh to Mr. Bryson. Uh,
I think that's why there's certainly

1515
02:19:04,479 --> 02:19:13,439
vulnerabilities associated with shipping
uh, waste down south, but many other

1516
02:19:09,679 --> 02:19:18,000
communities in Alaska do that. Uh, and I
think that's why we're at the point

1517
02:19:14,800 --> 02:19:23,120
where even at this at this stage, there
were essentially a high level three

1518
02:19:20,719 --> 02:19:27,760
major types of ways that you deal with
uh, waste disposal. and there was a

1519
02:19:25,519 --> 02:19:32,880
ranking of them but not an elimination
of any any of the options because we

1520
02:19:30,160 --> 02:19:37,040
would need uh through that next step of
looking at operations really digging

1521
02:19:34,399 --> 02:19:41,760
into a little bit more about the the
shipping piece. I still do think though

1522
02:19:39,679 --> 02:19:48,399
that even if the community made a
decision to build a transfer station and

1523
02:19:45,760 --> 02:19:54,720
to ship that waste down south versus
maybe putting it in a landfill, which is

1524
02:19:50,160 --> 02:20:01,040
its own its own why decision point, what
we would gain is that uh a waste hauler

1525
02:19:58,640 --> 02:20:08,319
uh is regulated and they have to bring
their waste to uh the the most lowcost

1526
02:20:05,120 --> 02:20:13,520
option. So we would wind up being the
disposal. The transfer station is the

1527
02:20:10,640 --> 02:20:19,120
first step in the disposal. And having
that step in disposal enables us to make

1528
02:20:17,600 --> 02:20:23,280
more decisions about you know if the
community wants to do something

1529
02:20:20,240 --> 02:20:30,319
different with the way we we uh process
tires or you know or uh the way that we

1530
02:20:27,359 --> 02:20:36,319
process our recycling. the fact that all
the waste would be coming to a facility

1531
02:20:32,640 --> 02:20:40,319
that CBJ has some level of control over.
Uh I mean we could either own it and

1532
02:20:38,479 --> 02:20:44,640
operate it, although I doubt that that's
really the model. We would probably own

1533
02:20:42,560 --> 02:20:49,040
it and have some partnership with a
private company, but that private

1534
02:20:46,479 --> 02:20:54,000
company, if CBJ owned it, they would CBJ
would be able to direct um what we

1535
02:20:52,399 --> 02:20:58,479
wanted to do with that with that waste
flow with diversion. Not sure if you

1536
02:20:56,160 --> 02:21:03,840
wanted to add anything else. Uh like
Denise mentioned at the beginning of the

1537
02:21:01,160 --> 02:21:07,760
presentation, a lot of issues that arise
there, it's not just because it's going

1538
02:21:05,359 --> 02:21:13,439
in a poorly designed land film, right?
It's hours of operation, it is materials

1539
02:21:10,560 --> 02:21:19,359
accepted, it's rates like she mentioned
if so just a

1540
02:21:15,880 --> 02:21:22,960
hypothetical CBJ decides to do nothing.
Uh the p someone in the private sector

1541
02:21:21,439 --> 02:21:27,200
builds a transfer station because that
will be what

1542
02:21:24,359 --> 02:21:32,399
happens. we then don't have any input
into when they're open, what materials

1543
02:21:29,680 --> 02:21:36,640
they accept, um the rate again the
rates. So yeah, it's not a perfect

1544
02:21:34,560 --> 02:21:42,160
solution by any means. Uh but it does
also give us another opportunity to push

1545
02:21:38,840 --> 02:21:46,800
diversion if we are able to incentivize
by you know like recycling's free. You

1546
02:21:45,359 --> 02:21:51,600
have and now you you know there's
different uh models for payment also um

1547
02:21:49,920 --> 02:21:54,720
that we can look into. There's something
called pay as you throw, right? you go

1548
02:21:53,439 --> 02:21:58,319
to the transfer station, you're just
paying for that waste that you're

1549
02:21:55,920 --> 02:22:02,000
throwing out. Uh it's not like a, you
know, right now we have a minimum charge

1550
02:22:00,160 --> 02:22:05,760
at Waste Management, right? So that's
not really incentivizing you to have

1551
02:22:04,240 --> 02:22:09,840
less waste that goes through that
transfer station. You can incentivize

1552
02:22:07,840 --> 02:22:15,200
recycling, composting, and reads,
though. Um and if you control each of

1553
02:22:11,840 --> 02:22:20,080
those pieces, then it's it's the system
just works better, right? So I would say

1554
02:22:17,680 --> 02:22:23,600
that's
very good. It looks like you as a

1555
02:22:21,359 --> 02:22:30,920
followup, Mr. Bryson. So the answer that
I heard is that the transfer station

1556
02:22:26,319 --> 02:22:38,640
regardless of the scenario is how CBJ
can insert themselves into the waist

1557
02:22:34,000 --> 02:22:44,359
stream control. Is that essentially the
what you're saying through the chair?

1558
02:22:41,359 --> 02:22:44,359
Yes.

1559
02:22:44,399 --> 02:22:52,240
Very well then. Did you have a question?
I did.

1560
02:22:47,800 --> 02:22:57,040
Um, so a transfer I forget um how many
acres the zero waste campus site is. Is

1561
02:22:55,200 --> 02:23:03,520
there room for a transfer station and
its growth that's needed potentially

1562
02:23:01,200 --> 02:23:11,200
through the chair to Mayor Weldon? Uh
yes that because that uh that site is um

1563
02:23:08,399 --> 02:23:15,120
more than 20 acres we would have we
would have plenty of space to you know

1564
02:23:13,200 --> 02:23:19,920
make if the assembly wanted to make the
decision and pro provide the guidance

1565
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:24,880
that uh you're interested enough that we
should at least include it in our plan.

1566
02:23:22,479 --> 02:23:30,720
Um, we would still have space to have
recycling and compost and other things

1567
02:23:28,319 --> 02:23:35,760
on on that site and then even have we
would design it such that uh the

1568
02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:40,160
transfer station um had a little bit of
room for growth so that we could I think

1569
02:23:38,640 --> 02:23:44,200
we could accomplish all of those things
in that in that site.

1570
02:23:50,240 --> 02:23:55,040
I actually had a question on this. I
guess

1571
02:23:53,000 --> 02:23:58,720
just, you know, you're asking if we
should include it at the Zurista campus

1572
02:23:56,560 --> 02:24:03,120
site. I mean, is there another site we
should consider? This one just totally

1573
02:24:00,960 --> 02:24:06,080
makes sense. Okay. You just kind of
Okay,

1574
02:24:04,180 --> 02:24:12,160
[Music]
Mr. share. Uh that was that uh South

1575
02:24:09,520 --> 02:24:18,399
Lemon Creek gravel pit is the area that
we had identified as um the area that

1576
02:24:15,760 --> 02:24:24,479
would be our waste campus. We know that
even if um the assembly was not

1577
02:24:21,840 --> 02:24:28,800
interested in having a a transfer uh
transfer station. Um the community has

1578
02:24:27,439 --> 02:24:32,399
been interested and has been running a
recycling program for a long time and

1579
02:24:30,800 --> 02:24:38,080
running a household hazardous waste
program for a long time. And the most

1580
02:24:35,120 --> 02:24:44,080
likely outcome is what when the local
privatelyowned waste management landfill

1581
02:24:41,120 --> 02:24:47,840
closes or as it gets close to closing.
They're going to need that that space

1582
02:24:45,920 --> 02:24:52,319
where we currently have our recycling
and household hazardous waste. So at

1583
02:24:49,840 --> 02:24:58,560
some point uh CBJ will probably get
pushed off of their private site. And if

1584
02:24:54,960 --> 02:25:02,640
those are uh services that uh the
assembly and the community still want

1585
02:25:00,160 --> 02:25:08,560
CBJ to offer, we'd have to have another
location to offer those those services.

1586
02:25:05,439 --> 02:25:13,439
And that's also where uh we had planned
um to have a a compost facility that we

1587
02:25:11,439 --> 02:25:19,120
had pursued the congressionally directed
spending for.

1588
02:25:16,640 --> 02:25:25,080
Very good. Any further questions from
the assembly? Seeing none, anyone open

1589
02:25:22,880 --> 02:25:30,600
to making a
motion? Mr.

1590
02:25:27,500 --> 02:25:36,680
[Music]
Kelly? I'll uh start with the guidance

1591
02:25:34,560 --> 02:25:44,560
requested.
Um, I move that we provide a motion of

1592
02:25:41,280 --> 02:25:52,800
support uh directing engineering public
works to include a transfer station with

1593
02:25:48,960 --> 02:25:56,880
possible growth in the zerowaste campus
um

1594
02:25:54,520 --> 02:26:00,840
site. Very good. Further motion. Any
objection to the

1595
02:25:58,200 --> 02:26:05,399
motion? Seeing that, that motion is
adopted. Any further motions?

1596
02:26:05,520 --> 02:26:13,280
Madame Mayor, I'm not quite sure if we
need this or not, but we would give

1597
02:26:09,800 --> 02:26:18,200
staff direction. So, um, I would direct
staff to use up to $100,000 from the

1598
02:26:15,280 --> 02:26:23,760
zero waste CIP number
D12-103 for high level solid waste

1599
02:26:20,720 --> 02:26:29,560
facility operational cost.
Very good. We motion. Any objection,

1600
02:26:26,399 --> 02:26:29,560
Miss Wall?

1601
02:26:32,920 --> 02:26:42,359
Um I was I didn't realize we were making
a motion that specific, but um I see now

1602
02:26:39,920 --> 02:26:50,000
that that's the slide.
Um I this I can follow up more with um

1603
02:26:47,200 --> 02:26:56,640
staff regarding whether we would need a
amendment. But I'm interested as we move

1604
02:26:53,520 --> 02:27:04,880
forward with this on on making sure we
include um as well as cost estimates

1605
02:27:01,560 --> 02:27:09,760
um looking at our carbon footprint and
environmental concerns. I know we live

1606
02:27:07,600 --> 02:27:16,000
in a society that chooses to add that
on, but I think we're increasingly in a

1607
02:27:12,960 --> 02:27:21,359
place where that should be just as
important as our dollar values. And

1608
02:27:18,640 --> 02:27:27,439
although it's hard to think of this
right now, someday those concerns will

1609
02:27:24,000 --> 02:27:31,359
drive our dollars potentially. So, um,
if if staff could bring up a bit more

1610
02:27:29,200 --> 02:27:36,800
information on whether that would need
additional dollars to include those

1611
02:27:33,280 --> 02:27:42,080
analyses, um, that would be helpful. So,
maybe not an amendment, but just a

1612
02:27:39,359 --> 02:27:46,000
general direction that if we have to
change that amount, we can. Yeah. Yeah.

1613
02:27:44,160 --> 02:27:52,800
If that was it was going to be provided,
it would have changed the cost. Very

1614
02:27:48,840 --> 02:27:58,479
good. Any further objection, Mr. Um,
yes. Um, probably just an objection kind

1615
02:27:55,359 --> 02:28:05,680
kind of on a a similar vein. I think uh
what would be kind of useful for us in

1616
02:28:00,640 --> 02:28:09,280
making future decisions as well is um is
a little more information. I I I realize

1617
02:28:07,600 --> 02:28:11,880
a lot of this is still kind of in the
beginning stages, but I think it would

1618
02:28:10,479 --> 02:28:17,680
be helpful for me to have a little more
information on on what sort of um what

1619
02:28:15,120 --> 02:28:24,960
sort of timeline
things would see that. And um I think

1620
02:28:21,319 --> 02:28:30,439
also um it may be cost comparisons that
possibly include the the cost for

1621
02:28:27,439 --> 02:28:30,439
shipping.

1622
02:28:31,760 --> 02:28:41,760
I'll remove my objection.
Very good. Those comments, we've heard a

1623
02:28:38,600 --> 02:28:47,840
motion. Miss Gandis. Uh thank you, Mr.
Chair. Sorry for this just now popping

1624
02:28:43,760 --> 02:28:52,120
into my head. Will that include Are you
already planning to include looking at

1625
02:28:49,520 --> 02:28:56,399
this also as a potential for a regional
landfill? I think you mentioned that

1626
02:28:54,080 --> 02:29:00,880
earlier, Miss Scandi, I had a hard time
hearing you. What did you say? Sorry,

1627
02:28:58,880 --> 02:29:05,600
Mr. Smith. I had a hard candy in my
mouth. I believe earlier you said that

1628
02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:11,840
you would look at citing it as a
regional landfill and just as a local

1629
02:29:08,960 --> 02:29:14,840
landfill or I'm asking will this include
that?

1630
02:29:15,439 --> 02:29:23,200
through the chair to Miss Hugh Ganges.
We certainly have been um participating

1631
02:29:21,040 --> 02:29:28,080
with Southeast Conference. We know that
they're looking at uh regional waste

1632
02:29:25,760 --> 02:29:35,520
solutions and we're continuing to have
that that dialogue with them.

1633
02:29:30,760 --> 02:29:39,920
Um we are I think a little bit um it's
interesting a lot of the other

1634
02:29:37,280 --> 02:29:44,080
communities in the southeast who are t
having this conversation about a

1635
02:29:41,359 --> 02:29:49,439
regional solution have more control over
their waste than than we do. I think

1636
02:29:47,280 --> 02:29:54,080
there's certainly um it's certainly
apparent that any regional solution in

1637
02:29:51,760 --> 02:29:59,680
terms of the economy of scale that they
would get. Um, Juno is certainly the

1638
02:29:56,880 --> 02:30:05,439
most likely location that that that
would happen. Um, so we are taking that

1639
02:30:03,040 --> 02:30:10,640
into account as we're as we're doing
some of these plans, but it's a little

1640
02:30:07,600 --> 02:30:18,240
bit of this balancing act because we
don't want to uh box ourselves in. And I

1641
02:30:13,840 --> 02:30:24,240
I wouldn't um probably proceed with or
give our consultant the advice to

1642
02:30:20,720 --> 02:30:28,720
proceed with uh the focus of of us being
a regional hub because we don't know if

1643
02:30:26,160 --> 02:30:34,359
that will wind up happening. I think
that um we would give them the focus uh

1644
02:30:31,520 --> 02:30:39,200
ask them to focus on uh looking at these
solutions primarily assuming that it's

1645
02:30:36,800 --> 02:30:44,399
just Juno's waist stream but knowing
that you know keeping some openness so

1646
02:30:41,600 --> 02:30:48,720
that if there you know later on if once
the regional planning catches up and if

1647
02:30:46,399 --> 02:30:54,160
it's the community and assembly's will
to you know to be more regional that we

1648
02:30:51,680 --> 02:30:58,560
wouldn't shut any doors but I think it's
um it's probably a little early for us

1649
02:30:56,160 --> 02:31:04,160
to plan based on that.
Yeah, I will add that we can do look at

1650
02:31:01,760 --> 02:31:07,760
like the 50y year versus the 100year
land though. I think that would be a

1651
02:31:06,000 --> 02:31:13,319
really reasonable thing to do to get a
better because that 100year landfill

1652
02:31:09,920 --> 02:31:13,319
would be more.

1653
02:31:13,439 --> 02:31:16,160
Okay.

1654
02:31:16,760 --> 02:31:20,760
Okay. I'll

1655
02:31:21,120 --> 02:31:28,520
thank you. And uh in a similar vein of
just comments under emotion, I actually

1656
02:31:26,960 --> 02:31:33,520
have one too. You
had you had brought up and the thing

1657
02:31:30,880 --> 02:31:39,680
that I've talked about almost every time
we talk about solid waste is like cost

1658
02:31:36,319 --> 02:31:43,760
to the residents because oh great, we
have a $20 million solution, but it's

1659
02:31:41,439 --> 02:31:48,479
going to triple the cost versus a $50
million solution that will just increase

1660
02:31:45,760 --> 02:31:52,240
by a third, whatever. So anyway, I I
thought I heard you mention that that

1661
02:31:49,920 --> 02:31:57,600
would be a component of this study.
Again, if I was incorrect or that's not

1662
02:31:55,359 --> 02:32:00,920
going to be considered or something, I
would appreciate, but I just wanted to

1663
02:31:59,600 --> 02:32:06,160
emphasize
that three other people that emphasis

1664
02:32:03,120 --> 02:32:10,880
and I didn't want to be left out.
Mr. Chair, you are correct. We are we we

1665
02:32:09,439 --> 02:32:15,600
really want to get this to a place where
we understand what the cost is to the to

1666
02:32:13,120 --> 02:32:19,200
the residents. Uh there will be what I
had mentioned earlier is that there are

1667
02:32:16,880 --> 02:32:25,520
probably opportunities for policy calls
in there in terms of whether or not um

1668
02:32:21,840 --> 02:32:28,640
the assembly wants uh ways to be an
enterprise fund if they were thinking

1669
02:32:27,280 --> 02:32:32,800
about it that way or if they were
thinking about subsidy or not. But we

1670
02:32:30,560 --> 02:32:35,359
would certainly be driving to try and
understand what the cost would be for

1671
02:32:34,240 --> 02:32:38,800
the resident because we really
understand that's that's where the

1672
02:32:36,479 --> 02:32:42,359
rubber hits the road.
Very good. Thank you very much. And with

1673
02:32:40,080 --> 02:32:50,200
that, I'll remove my objection for
emphasis. Was there any further excuse

1674
02:32:46,319 --> 02:32:56,479
me any further
objection on the

1675
02:32:52,520 --> 02:33:00,319
motion? Seeing none those that motion is
adopted. Thank you all very much for

1676
02:32:58,560 --> 02:33:08,080
this information. Appreciate it. Thank
you. Thank you. Okay, we have one last

1677
02:33:05,720 --> 02:33:13,520
item. Advocacy on ballot measures.
Manager Kester. Thank you, Deputy Mayor

1678
02:33:11,280 --> 02:33:18,160
Smith. So, you have a memo. the very
last page of your packet that just talks

1679
02:33:15,600 --> 02:33:23,280
about generally speaking advocacy on
ballot measures. As you know, we are

1680
02:33:21,040 --> 02:33:29,280
required to uh appropriate funds and
register with Apoch if uh the city wants

1681
02:33:26,800 --> 02:33:35,600
to do like more than kind of a basic
just the facts public education

1682
02:33:31,280 --> 02:33:40,560
campaign. So, um we we have uh multiple
ballot initiatives potentially on the

1683
02:33:37,760 --> 02:33:46,960
ballot, including a CBG initiated uh
ballot measure for um seasonal sales tax

1684
02:33:44,160 --> 02:33:56,240
and an exemption of tax on food and
utilities. We also have the um the uh

1685
02:33:52,000 --> 02:34:00,720
mill rate cap and the uh just the
exemption of sales tax on food and

1686
02:33:58,560 --> 02:34:04,880
utilities that is being circulated. they
are out getting additional petitions

1687
02:34:02,880 --> 02:34:09,680
right now. And just to highlight the
impact of that exemption of of those two

1688
02:34:08,080 --> 02:34:15,280
measures, an exemption on food and
utilities is about a 10 to 12 million

1689
02:34:12,560 --> 02:34:21,760
hit to our budget. And while the mill
rate cap because it excludes uh debt

1690
02:34:18,720 --> 02:34:25,840
service, it would have a small impact on
this year's budget. However, it would

1691
02:34:23,680 --> 02:34:30,479
really limit the ability of the assembly
to make um budget decisions and respond

1692
02:34:28,479 --> 02:34:36,479
to community needs. So, you know, those
are kind of our the um body's potential

1693
02:34:34,720 --> 02:34:43,040
interest in advocating one way or
another on those. If we were to uh not

1694
02:34:40,319 --> 02:34:47,840
take if we were not to take any action
to advocate, so no ordinance um

1695
02:34:45,760 --> 02:34:52,880
appropriating those funds, we would
provide a a pretty robust FAQ. We would

1696
02:34:51,280 --> 02:34:56,560
respond to inquiries, but that would be
from staff's perspective the the limit

1697
02:34:54,800 --> 02:35:01,920
of it. Of course, assembly members
individually can take a more proactive

1698
02:34:59,040 --> 02:35:06,960
role, but um but staff would be very
careful about that. Um in the contrast,

1699
02:35:04,880 --> 02:35:11,600
if we did uh if you did approve an
advocacy campaign, we would recommend

1700
02:35:09,600 --> 02:35:16,800
hiring a third party consultant with
experience in these types of um these

1701
02:35:14,560 --> 02:35:20,640
types of voter education campaigns. The
new city hall campaign, we were quite

1702
02:35:18,399 --> 02:35:24,960
close to it. You know, we did some some
great uh work, but I think I would uh

1703
02:35:22,720 --> 02:35:31,680
advocate for being a little bit more
who's getting a really robust um media

1704
02:35:28,800 --> 02:35:38,479
and direct mail campaign organized uh
through uh who a a company a consulting

1705
02:35:34,960 --> 02:35:46,080
firm that specializes in that. Um as you
know the deadline to um have anything

1706
02:35:42,160 --> 02:35:52,160
put on the um ballot is um the end of
July. So, this is really uh kind of fast

1707
02:35:49,280 --> 02:35:55,600
approaching in order to be able to uh
meaningfully develop any type of a

1708
02:35:54,080 --> 02:36:00,880
campaign and I laid out a schedule on
the memo. Um, if you're interested in

1709
02:35:58,640 --> 02:36:05,280
keeping the conversation alive on
potentially advocating, I would

1710
02:36:02,800 --> 02:36:09,680
recommend uh introducing an ordinance at
the next meeting. You don't have to pass

1711
02:36:07,439 --> 02:36:14,240
that ordinance, right? We have a very
long time actually in between our June

1712
02:36:12,240 --> 02:36:19,600
9th meeting and our uh July 28th
meeting. Lots of things can change, but

1713
02:36:16,399 --> 02:36:24,080
if you do um if you are interested in
having that option, I would recommend

1714
02:36:21,760 --> 02:36:29,280
introducing an ordinance. And you know,
I I don't I'm silent on a number in this

1715
02:36:26,560 --> 02:36:33,680
memo. Uh the new city hall campaign was
under

1716
02:36:30,120 --> 02:36:37,920
$50,000. Um depending on kind of how
many how many campaigns, how many

1717
02:36:35,760 --> 02:36:42,160
measures you want to advocate on, I
think um would uh influence that number.

1718
02:36:40,800 --> 02:36:46,800
And I would just encourage you to use a
higher number and use language because

1719
02:36:44,920 --> 02:36:50,160
again, you know, we're going to have a
long time of between now and when you

1720
02:36:48,399 --> 02:36:55,200
have to make a final decision on that.
So, I'm happy to answer any questions on

1721
02:36:52,880 --> 02:36:59,760
advocacy and I know attorney writes also
very um involved in this issue. Madam

1722
02:36:58,000 --> 02:37:04,560
manager, just to frame it in and I'm
sorry if you said it right there at the

1723
02:37:01,439 --> 02:37:09,920
end, the the information we need to
provide on an ordinance, it's the amount

1724
02:37:08,080 --> 02:37:14,960
and do we do advocacy. It's not
necessarily advocate for this or

1725
02:37:12,160 --> 02:37:21,640
advocate against that. Is that correct?
You are correct. Very good. Thank you.

1726
02:37:17,359 --> 02:37:21,640
Questions from the assembly. Mr. Bryson,

1727
02:37:22,880 --> 02:37:31,560
does the uh the citizen group that is
putting on uh these initiatives or

1728
02:37:28,479 --> 02:37:37,280
attempting to get these onto the ballot?
Um have we looked at what's the right

1729
02:37:34,479 --> 02:37:43,240
way to ask this question? Um, would it
be appropriate for the city's level of

1730
02:37:39,960 --> 02:37:50,560
information to be equal to the group's
information of what they're trying to uh

1731
02:37:47,280 --> 02:37:55,760
get past? Would we try to like match the
level of activity? Um, could you maybe

1732
02:37:54,479 --> 02:38:02,600
just speak to a little bit what we would
do is in like a camp if you had a

1733
02:37:58,080 --> 02:38:07,359
campaign um to do with
this manager. Thank you for that

1734
02:38:05,040 --> 02:38:11,479
question. So, uh, no, I I probably would
not, um, I I really don't think there's

1735
02:38:09,439 --> 02:38:18,640
time to be have much of a reactionary
campaign. Um, if approved, uh, I would

1736
02:38:15,760 --> 02:38:24,399
suggest a, um, social media presence
where we do, uh, social media ads. I

1737
02:38:21,280 --> 02:38:29,280
would suggest radio ads. Uh, I would s
direct mail is still the like best way

1738
02:38:27,200 --> 02:38:34,000
to get a hold of those individual
voters. So I would um you know pro we

1739
02:38:32,640 --> 02:38:38,319
would probably be we would take the
advice of the consultant who who does

1740
02:38:35,600 --> 02:38:43,680
those types of activities or the media
marketing campaign but direct mail um

1741
02:38:41,760 --> 02:38:47,680
public speaking I would still be relying
on I think assembly members to do many

1742
02:38:45,600 --> 02:38:53,880
of those requested public speaking
events but I think it would probably be

1743
02:38:49,840 --> 02:38:53,880
uh mostly media focus.

1744
02:38:55,920 --> 02:39:04,560
Other
questions? Miss Miss Hall and then I'll

1745
02:39:00,560 --> 02:39:12,080
come back to Mr. Preston. I I it it
seems to me with the city hall campaign

1746
02:39:07,600 --> 02:39:19,439
that backfired on on us and so I guess
I'm a little hesitant to you know how

1747
02:39:15,359 --> 02:39:26,560
common is it for um municipalities to
advocate for something like this or do

1748
02:39:21,920 --> 02:39:31,520
we you know I the FAQ page and relying
on

1749
02:39:27,960 --> 02:39:37,359
Q&A around election time would that be a
wise er approach

1750
02:39:33,800 --> 02:39:41,680
than using public funds to have an
advocacy committee.

1751
02:39:39,600 --> 02:39:45,359
Yeah. If you maybe go ahead and answer
but then the thought I think was

1752
02:39:43,120 --> 02:39:50,880
interesting is you know what other
communities have done advocacy for you

1753
02:39:47,520 --> 02:39:56,000
know something. Yeah. Um so I know that
when I was in Homer we did a advocacy

1754
02:39:53,359 --> 02:39:59,520
campaign for um a public safety
building. Uh when we looked it up last

1755
02:39:57,920 --> 02:40:04,800
year I believe Katchakan had done an
advocacy campaign. I I don't think it's

1756
02:40:01,760 --> 02:40:08,080
very common. Often when you have a bomb
proposition, for example, you have a

1757
02:40:06,399 --> 02:40:12,960
constituency group that is, you know,
advocating for that. The reason why uh

1758
02:40:10,479 --> 02:40:18,399
we advocated for a new city hall
campaign was it was just a it was really

1759
02:40:15,120 --> 02:40:24,319
hard uh for anyone else to be a champion
of a new built new office space for uh

1760
02:40:22,200 --> 02:40:28,319
bureaucrats besides the bureaucrats
themselves. And it would be really hard

1761
02:40:26,479 --> 02:40:32,399
for us to distance ourselves, we felt
like, from anything just sounding like

1762
02:40:30,160 --> 02:40:37,040
advocacy. Um, I think your other
question of like should we do it or

1763
02:40:34,479 --> 02:40:46,960
should we not do it is 100% a policy
call that is squarely in your uh arena.

1764
02:40:42,800 --> 02:40:52,560
Mr. Bryson, then Mr. Kelly,
could the advocacy advocacy be combined?

1765
02:40:50,160 --> 02:40:59,359
Let's say that two of the propositions
were to cap the mill rate and um exempt

1766
02:40:56,280 --> 02:41:04,960
the for food and utilities. Would we be
able to have like

1767
02:41:01,240 --> 02:41:09,439
one message out there or if they have
two ballot initiatives, we'd have to

1768
02:41:07,120 --> 02:41:15,760
address them separately?
Do you have any insight on how you might

1769
02:41:12,520 --> 02:41:20,640
handle if there was two or three ballot
initiatives that we'd have to go against

1770
02:41:18,319 --> 02:41:23,640
or advocate against whatever appropriate
phrases?

1771
02:41:23,760 --> 02:41:28,640
Um I think that there'd be a lot of
synergy and similar messaging. I mean I

1772
02:41:27,359 --> 02:41:35,600
think really there's just a lot of
messaging that uh CBJ could do that's

1773
02:41:31,920 --> 02:41:41,680
not specific to any ballot
uh proposition. If you know if if

1774
02:41:39,359 --> 02:41:46,479
One option involves drastic cuts to our
budget or a giant hole in our budget. We

1775
02:41:43,760 --> 02:41:51,600
could certainly do a lot of uh educating
on what that could look like, things

1776
02:41:48,319 --> 02:41:54,880
like that. Um I think a more nuance
level of your question that I don't have

1777
02:41:52,960 --> 02:41:59,359
an answer for is like how would we
register with Apoch if we were like

1778
02:41:57,280 --> 02:42:02,160
doing a campaign here and a campaign
there and and you know I would just have

1779
02:42:00,720 --> 02:42:07,200
to research that to make sure we were
following the rules. I mean, we want to

1780
02:42:03,680 --> 02:42:13,120
be very very careful and very um a
stickler on on all of those uh campaign

1781
02:42:10,160 --> 02:42:20,319
disclosure rules.
Mr. Kelly, thank you. Um this might be a

1782
02:42:17,200 --> 02:42:24,720
little too creative. Um so I guess I'm
asking if this is something that would

1783
02:42:21,840 --> 02:42:28,800
be permissible. I think a a big part of
a lot of people's objections was they

1784
02:42:26,720 --> 02:42:32,680
they're getting mailers that were paid
with their own tax funds trying to get

1785
02:42:30,399 --> 02:42:38,479
them to take an action.
Um

1786
02:42:34,200 --> 02:42:43,200
would we have to would would all of the
funds have to come from the city? Could

1787
02:42:40,520 --> 02:42:47,760
we coordinate with u maybe another
interested citizen group and they could

1788
02:42:45,920 --> 02:42:52,120
also raise funds so this wouldn't be an
entirely taxpayer funded effort?

1789
02:42:52,960 --> 02:43:04,240
Whoever would like that. Yeah. So I
think that uh logistically it would be

1790
02:43:00,280 --> 02:43:09,640
difficult for the assembly to accept and
appropriate donations for the purposes

1791
02:43:06,720 --> 02:43:16,000
of an advocacy campaign. I think a
simpler solution would be for that

1792
02:43:12,600 --> 02:43:21,960
entity to register and and have their
own advocacy.

1793
02:43:18,720 --> 02:43:21,960
Thank you.

1794
02:43:24,479 --> 02:43:32,720
Further questions from the assembly on
this agenda

1795
02:43:29,720 --> 02:43:36,160
topic? Seeing none, would anyone like to
make a

1796
02:43:33,560 --> 02:43:39,760
motion? Miss Wall, Mr. Smith, do you
mind if I have a take a brief at ease?

1797
02:43:38,640 --> 02:43:42,760
Of course. a couple minutes or
something.

1798
02:47:58,880 --> 02:48:06,880
We are back on the record.
Um, Miss Wall,

1799
02:48:05,120 --> 02:48:11,439
do you have a motion? Thank you, Chair
Smith.

1800
02:48:07,960 --> 02:48:16,880
Um, I move we direct staff to introduce
an ordinance at the June 9th regular

1801
02:48:14,160 --> 02:48:24,479
meeting um in a corresponding RO res
resolution on July 28th that would

1802
02:48:19,760 --> 02:48:29,920
provide up to um $50,000 for to provide
public information that may influence

1803
02:48:26,720 --> 02:48:33,600
the outcome of future val ballot
propositions. And if I could speak to my

1804
02:48:32,000 --> 02:48:39,040
motion. Very good.
as well.

1805
02:48:35,160 --> 02:48:43,600
Um I I've been through this question of
how we deal with these situations a

1806
02:48:41,680 --> 02:48:50,399
number of times on the assembly now and
I've changed my mind a few times about

1807
02:48:46,560 --> 02:48:56,880
it. But um why I'm feeling motivated um
this year um two things. One there is

1808
02:48:55,200 --> 02:49:00,560
something has changed in the last 5
years. We used to be able to just

1809
02:48:58,720 --> 02:49:05,200
provide public information on these
ballot initiatives. Now, we cannot do

1810
02:49:02,720 --> 02:49:09,120
that without allocating public funding
to do so. And so, it puts us in a tricky

1811
02:49:07,520 --> 02:49:15,040
position that there's really no way to
be neutral. Um, I'm but I want to move

1812
02:49:12,560 --> 02:49:19,279
forward on this particular year because
we're considering a seasonal sales tax.

1813
02:49:17,359 --> 02:49:25,439
I think a seasonal sales tax, we've got
a bold proposal to transform the way

1814
02:49:22,560 --> 02:49:32,080
that we're collecting sales tax in Juno
before us.

1815
02:49:27,080 --> 02:49:37,600
Um it is going to take um some work to
make sure people understand why we are

1816
02:49:35,120 --> 02:49:42,240
proposing this um and and the
information around that. I think it is

1817
02:49:39,720 --> 02:49:47,439
complex and I know that if we don't get
ahead of the message um a lot of

1818
02:49:45,439 --> 02:49:53,359
misinformation will be put out there
about the proposal. people see it as a

1819
02:49:49,359 --> 02:50:00,960
tax and and they'll um they'll we won't
be able to provide a clear understanding

1820
02:49:56,160 --> 02:50:03,840
of why. Um and so um if it turns out
there's there's other things on the

1821
02:50:02,399 --> 02:50:09,120
ballot, then I think we still have the
option to um decide how we feel about

1822
02:50:06,240 --> 02:50:13,600
that. But for me, this is about seasonal
sales tax. I actually think that I won't

1823
02:50:11,520 --> 02:50:18,479
vote for putting seasonal sales tax on
the ballot if we don't allocate funding

1824
02:50:16,319 --> 02:50:22,040
to help educate the public about it.
Thank you.

1825
02:50:20,720 --> 02:50:27,040
Thank you, Miss
Wall. Any objection to the motion? Miss

1826
02:50:25,120 --> 02:50:30,560
Atkinson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I very much

1827
02:50:29,200 --> 02:50:36,760
appreciate where where Miss Wall is
coming from, but I am hesitant to take

1828
02:50:34,080 --> 02:50:42,720
positions on any of the potential ballot
measures as a city uh that could be

1829
02:50:39,840 --> 02:50:47,760
coming forward. I think that if the case
of ballot measures proposed by the

1830
02:50:44,720 --> 02:50:51,520
citizens of Juno, uh there will be like
if people reach out and ask what size

1831
02:50:49,760 --> 02:50:55,359
hole will that put in the budget, we are
allowed to share that information. But I

1832
02:50:54,000 --> 02:50:58,960
don't think we should be taking a
position on any of those potential

1833
02:50:56,880 --> 02:51:02,880
ballot measures because that's just I
don't feel our place as the city to be

1834
02:51:01,200 --> 02:51:06,160
doing that and to be advocating for one
or the other. Providing unbiased

1835
02:51:04,560 --> 02:51:10,479
information is one thing and advocating
for a particular side is another. And as

1836
02:51:08,640 --> 02:51:14,399
far as the seasonal sales tax goes, I I
understand that we that is complex and

1837
02:51:12,720 --> 02:51:19,600
it will be a heavy lift to educate the
public, but also that's partially what

1838
02:51:17,279 --> 02:51:23,120
um people campaigning that year are for
when city hall was on the ballot. I know

1839
02:51:21,439 --> 02:51:27,200
we got questions about city hall and
every candidate forum. Um, and so that

1840
02:51:25,680 --> 02:51:31,840
is already sort of an organic part of
the process that uh people running this

1841
02:51:29,680 --> 02:51:36,000
year can undertake if need be. And I
just don't I think that it sends a bad

1842
02:51:34,160 --> 02:51:42,000
message to be using public dollars to
advocate for anything on that.

1843
02:51:39,439 --> 02:51:48,800
Thank you, Mr. Bryson.
So uh I was uh listening to Miss Atinson

1844
02:51:45,359 --> 02:51:52,960
and uh I bet in uh my first year I would
have had that same thought. I'm

1845
02:51:51,040 --> 02:51:59,279
suspecting that the groups that are
advocating for these are going to give

1846
02:51:55,600 --> 02:52:05,840
their version, their side of how this is
going to go down. And if we don't give

1847
02:52:01,760 --> 02:52:11,840
city staff um the funding and ability to
deal with this, we're going to be

1848
02:52:08,319 --> 02:52:18,160
dealing with a misinformation campaign
that negatively harms the community in

1849
02:52:14,640 --> 02:52:22,960
the long run. We need to be as loud and
as available with the real

1850
02:52:20,920 --> 02:52:26,680
information because some of these things
that have already started to come out,

1851
02:52:24,479 --> 02:52:33,040
I've already heard some of their
ads. We need to be as uh we need to be

1852
02:52:31,120 --> 02:52:36,720
as assertive um or we could find
ourselves in a bit of trouble. Thank you

1853
02:52:34,960 --> 02:52:40,319
for the time. Thank you, Mr. Bryson.
Miss Scandies.

1854
02:52:38,800 --> 02:52:45,680
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll just keep it
brief. I I support it. You know, I

1855
02:52:42,640 --> 02:52:50,640
thought about this for a long time and
specifically for me, how I can support

1856
02:52:48,960 --> 02:52:55,120
this and keep this alive and keep this
moving and I appreciate the motion is

1857
02:52:52,800 --> 02:53:01,520
because of the work we're doing on the
sales tax proposal and I want that to

1858
02:52:58,120 --> 02:53:05,120
have a fair shake and I want people to
feel like they really understand the

1859
02:53:03,279 --> 02:53:09,920
whole proposal and the whole model and
why we're doing it and I think this

1860
02:53:06,800 --> 02:53:17,040
allows us to do that. So, I'll be
supporting this motion. um to give that

1861
02:53:12,960 --> 02:53:19,840
a a full chance. Very good. Mayor Welen,
I'll just speak in support of the

1862
02:53:18,399 --> 02:53:23,520
motion, but everything I was going to
say has been said, so I'll keep it

1863
02:53:21,279 --> 02:53:27,600
short.
Mr.

1864
02:53:24,840 --> 02:53:32,800
Singer. Um, so I'm speaking support the
motion because, you know, looking at the

1865
02:53:30,240 --> 02:53:37,439
potential on the ballot of what could be
two very similar looking ballot

1866
02:53:35,680 --> 02:53:41,279
propositions put in front of the voters.
I think it's important that we, you

1867
02:53:39,359 --> 02:53:46,880
know, give staff the ability to educate
the public on what that choice means. I

1868
02:53:44,399 --> 02:53:53,279
see it not necessarily as an advocating
for or against a citizens initiative,

1869
02:53:50,560 --> 02:53:58,160
but explaining to the voters. We're
placing one option in front of them that

1870
02:53:56,319 --> 02:54:02,319
looks similar to another option being
discussed in the public right now and

1871
02:54:00,080 --> 02:54:06,960
making it very clear what the impacts of
both of those would be. You know, what

1872
02:54:04,319 --> 02:54:10,960
why we're proposing an option that looks
similar to something being discussed for

1873
02:54:08,640 --> 02:54:17,720
the public. Um but and also if I can ask
a question of staff very quickly. Sure.

1874
02:54:14,000 --> 02:54:24,880
With an objection. Um objection for a
question. How how much control will we

1875
02:54:22,080 --> 02:54:31,279
as a body have over the actual content
of the messaging and you know how much

1876
02:54:29,200 --> 02:54:37,439
how much can we direct the content and
the tone and the type of messaging

1877
02:54:33,359 --> 02:54:45,120
that's done by this third party.
Yeah. My my favorite is um drafting uh

1878
02:54:41,680 --> 02:54:54,479
FAQs by uh assembly. I've had experience
with that. Super fun. Um I would uh

1879
02:54:50,240 --> 02:55:01,359
suggest that uh you know we come forward
with a uh maybe a a uh plan for public

1880
02:54:58,840 --> 02:55:06,080
information and that the body have an
opportunity to provide high level input

1881
02:55:02,880 --> 02:55:10,319
on that plan. But um I think it is
difficult maybe I mean if you really

1882
02:55:07,760 --> 02:55:14,720
wanted some more granular level of
control I maybe a small committee or

1883
02:55:12,800 --> 02:55:19,520
something that could uh we could work
more closely with but um content

1884
02:55:17,760 --> 02:55:22,520
creation is is difficult in large
groups.

1885
02:55:24,399 --> 02:55:32,640
Mr. Kelly,
thank you. Um I think I'll support this

1886
02:55:28,560 --> 02:55:37,840
motion uh at this time. Um, I I'm still
kind of weighing weighing the pros and

1887
02:55:34,240 --> 02:55:42,319
cons of expending public funds uh to to
persuade versus also making sure we get

1888
02:55:39,600 --> 02:55:45,840
a fair shake. Um, I haven't decided how
I'm going to vote on the final ordinance

1889
02:55:43,680 --> 02:55:50,880
or the resolution, but I uh support
moving the conversation forward. Good,

1890
02:55:48,960 --> 02:55:54,479
Miss Atkinson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I can count votes.

1891
02:55:52,560 --> 02:55:57,520
So, I'll remove my objection. But I I
just will say when it comes to if we

1892
02:55:56,319 --> 02:56:02,240
come to the point where we're talking
about expending public money to provide

1893
02:55:59,840 --> 02:56:06,479
information on citizen ballot citizen
ballot initiatives, I will um not be

1894
02:56:05,359 --> 02:56:12,960
able to support it. But for now, I'll
remove my objection. Mr. Bryson,

1895
02:56:09,680 --> 02:56:18,399
I had a question um for staff. If we did
not allocate any funds, staff would not

1896
02:56:16,479 --> 02:56:22,240
be able to go do something like go
present at the Chamber of Commerce. Is

1897
02:56:20,240 --> 02:56:27,600
that correct? We have to have an
allocation of funds to allow city to be

1898
02:56:25,120 --> 02:56:32,319
able to publicly speak about this. Is
there some Could you maybe explain what

1899
02:56:29,359 --> 02:56:36,720
that rule is?
Madam manager. Yeah. I mean, you know, I

1900
02:56:34,399 --> 02:56:41,279
don't there's no like Apoch guide book
of what you can or cannot do in these

1901
02:56:39,600 --> 02:56:47,439
circumstances. They're a matter. It's a
matter of judgment and it's a matter of

1902
02:56:44,000 --> 02:56:54,319
uh risking a Apoch violation. I would
not feel comfortable uh speaking at a

1903
02:56:49,600 --> 02:56:58,560
chamber or a um Rotary event on this
topic outside of you know being asked

1904
02:56:56,720 --> 02:57:04,640
questions. I would I think an assembly
member could uh take that action but um

1905
02:57:02,479 --> 02:57:08,399
like my I would not feel comfortable
doing that or directing my staff to do

1906
02:57:06,000 --> 02:57:12,240
that because it'd be very hard for it
not to sound like advocating when you're

1907
02:57:10,319 --> 02:57:17,120
like if you approve this we won't have
money to fund the arburetum for example,

1908
02:57:15,279 --> 02:57:21,680
right? like that's just going to come
off as big bad city manager trying to

1909
02:57:19,920 --> 02:57:27,279
influence my opinion by taking away the
things I love. Okay,

1910
02:57:25,040 --> 02:57:31,439
very good. We have a motion and I don't
believe we have objection. Is there any

1911
02:57:29,200 --> 02:57:35,840
objection to the motion? Very good. That
motion is

1912
02:57:33,640 --> 02:57:39,479
adopted. That I think gets us through
our business this evening. Madam

1913
02:57:38,000 --> 02:57:46,080
manager, do we have anything
else? Very good.

1914
02:57:42,680 --> 02:57:49,720
Nothing. No staff reports. Our next
meeting date is Oh, I thought it was

1915
02:57:47,439 --> 02:57:56,760
July 4th. Is July
14th. Seeing nothing before else before

1916
02:57:52,960 --> 02:57:56,760
us, we are journ.