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Call the meeting in order and welcome
everybody to the August 2020 August

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24th, 2026 council work session. Can I
get a roll call, please?

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» Councelor Dow
>> here.

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» Councelor Fischer
>> here.

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» Councelor Leidge here.
>> Councelor Waterman

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» here. Councelor Blank,
Councelor Nelly,

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Councelor Walker
>> here,

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» Councelor Gabrielle, Mayor Hunter
>> here. We have one item on the agenda

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this evening, city-owned downtown
parking lot, rental and residential

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block parties. Before I get to that
item, um I'd like to actually move

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forward with public comment this
evening. And I know we have a few folks

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here uh that may like to speak. And so,
uh, we'll open it up to anyone wishing

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to address the council. Please step to
the mic and state your name. Uh, and if

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you're online, raise your hand.

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» Good evening, Mr. Mayor. Welcome home.
And thank you to all the counselors for

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giving us this opportunity. My name is
Lorraine Clarno, and I'm president and

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CEO of the Callispel Chamber of
Commerce. I was with you a week ago uh

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for the meeting and as um you probably
read in my email to you quite surprised

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at the outturn um and uh how things
worked out. So uh with respect for

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hopefully your threeminut timer we've
divvied up some things we'd just like to

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share with you and highlight um for your
consideration. We thought it'd be good

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to start with a little um backpedaling
on downtown Callispell forward and the

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process that we went through as partners
with the city to put together the part

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the parking study and so forth. So, as a
reminder, um, Downtown Callis Forward

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was, um, started in 2025
after we found ourselves in a similar

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situation with the Safe Streets for All
grant when we learned, um, from public

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sentiment that the downtown businesses
did not feel that they were heard

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properly or effectively. And so that
initiative came and was spurred by that.

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Um, in November of 25, uh, we got
together as a steering committee and we

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did a business walk and we walked into
and spoke with 135 businesses. And, um,

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out from that, we learned their number
one top priority, what keeps them up at

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night, what their biggest concern is, is
downtown parking. Employees fill the

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streets. They don't have places for
their customers to park. and it was

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above and beyond the number one concern.
So, we moved forward then with a

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reception to capture anybody we'd missed
and we had 42 participants at that and

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we did a sticky storm exercise and no
surprise we not only found out parking

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again was the number one concern but
they also offered up some tremendous

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ideas and solutions.
Um March we launched an online survey

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because we wanted to capture as many
opinions in downtown Callispell as

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possible and we got 19 responses. So a
total of 196 downtown voices identified

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parking um as the number one issue and
provided ideas that then got

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incorporated into uh the parking
strategy which we presented. We first

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went to the um advisory parking advisory
board. We we presented to them. We came

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back the next month, followed up. May
26, you folks had a great work session.

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You heard recommendations from the
parking advisory board that had made

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some tweaks to what we had recommended.
You then went through the first and

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second reading process. There was uh
talk of the enforcement uh piece of this

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in the police budget meeting. you had
your general budget meetings and at that

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point um of course we thought all
systems were go and so uh from the

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downtown forward group uh we had people
from the communication and engagement

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team met with city staff to start
mapping out a process of what this

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outreach and communication would be
starting in September so that folks

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would be very prepared come January for
the changes that were going to be

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implemented. Um, so staff was working on
the kind of the FAQs.

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Chamber and DKF staff were working on
what that process would look like,

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setting up a business walk for
September, designing postcards and

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mailers, getting ready for when we had
the go. Um, last Monday things changed.

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No enforcement means no parking plan
really. And so tonight, we would love to

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um just ask what the plan going forward
will be and what that is going to look

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like. So, um, thank you for this time
and you're going to get some more

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detailed information from the folks that
follow. Appreciate it.

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» Thank you, Miss Cler.

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» Good evening. My name is Erica Wordella.
I am uh speaking tonight as a member of

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the Callispell Chamber and the Downtown
Forward Callispell um working group. And

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so, um, before all this happened, I
really had no idea of what a flock

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camera was and what a LDR, license plate
reader was. So, this has been very

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educational to me along the way. And I
just thought I'd share some of the

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results of what I found um, and the
difference between what a lot of the

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public comment has been about flock
cameras, data centers, AI, and what a

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license plate reader really is. So the
LPR

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system is just general technology
category. It's any camera system that

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uses computer vision to automatically
read license plates and log vehicle

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passage um and log vehicle passage. So
that falls under that umbrella. LPR has

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existed for decades. Um and it's used by
toll systems, parking garages, police

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cruisers, gated communities, and traffic
enforcement. used in most municipalities

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across the country and in Montana
already in existence for many years in

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Helena, Missoula, Billings, but here in
Whitefish to our neighbor to the north

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here. So, Flock cameras are different
and that is a brand name Flock um whose

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main product is a type of LPR camera for
sure, but it is stationary. It's

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positioned as part of a broader platform
rather than just a a camera that is

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mounted maybe on the side of a parking
enforcement vehicle, could be one of

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those little carts, could be the side of
a police cruiser. So, the flock camera

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is standardized and um unlike standard
CCTV cameras that record continuous

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video to a network video recorder, a
flock camera is or excuse me, a LPR is

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just um doing, you know, the driveby
that the parking enforcement is doing.

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Uh, Flock has a vehicle footprint
feature, so they could identify things

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like um the vehicle's make, color,
model, other distinguishing attributes

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like um if it had a bumper sticker on
it, and it claims it's much more

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detailed than LPR that is just reading
the license plates from that. Um, I

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brought a copy of the MCA code that
details uh the use of LPRs. Um, it

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prohibits all surveillance technology on
public property except LPRs because LPRs

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are a closed database. So, these are not
available for anybody to get into. And

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anyone that has access to the data must
be identified. So, it must be your

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police force and all of that. This is
not about AI or data centers. And as was

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raised in last week's public comment
multiple times. Um, every one of those

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that testified from the last meeting had
cell phones in their pockets. And there

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you go. If you want to be tracked and
have everybody know where you're at and

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what you're doing, just carry your cell
phone with you and and that will do the

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work there for you. You don't need a
flock camera. So, um those cell phones

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know where you live, where you work,
what you had for dinner, and where you

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shop and and everything. So, downtown
Forward Calispel or downtown Calispel

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Forward steering committee and
infrastructure team worked on this uh

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topic for more than 40 hours. And I must
say at very early morning hours if you

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add up all those meetings and this
doesn't include the business walks, the

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reception at the um art gallery and the
postcards and surveys that were um

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solicited for outreach and feedback. So
um we've spent quite a bit of time on

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that. We've spent time talking with the
parking commissioner and bringing this

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forward to you. This is a critical
component to that plan that was adopted.

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Thank you very much.
>> Thank you, Miss Floa.

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Hi, Mayor Council. I'm Kisa Davidson,
and for the sake of this conversation,

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um, I'm representing the business, I'm
sorry, not the business, but the

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building owners, the property owners in
our downtown bid district. Um, I know I

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spoke last week when the actual council
meeting adopted the budget and I'm here

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tonight to ask you to please consider an
amendment to that budget specifically

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for those LPRs. Um, I don't know that it
was made clear the other two times that

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prior to this during the prior work
sessions that we as a downtown Calpel

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forward actually surveyed not only the
business owners but as many property

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owners as we could possibly survey
downtown. And by and large, the number

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one concern for everyone was parking.
So, y'all did a great job. We you took

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what recommendations we made and you
shredded the ones you didn't like and

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you kept the ones you did. Um, but now
we don't have any enforcement for those.

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So, the option for enforcement, as it
was relayed to me, or as we all went

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through last Monday, was simply to add
more staff. I don't know that that's the

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cost-effective solution that downtown
property owners are looking for

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specifically or particularly because
we're all faced with these tremendous

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increases to our property taxes. We are
looking for any and every opportunity to

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save money. Obviously, um we're not
looking to throw out people's privacy or

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safety with all of that, but we do have
to be reminded that every penny counts.

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So, please tonight um I know this is not
a decision-making, but as we talk about

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parking lots and events and all the
things that we know could bolster

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business and bolster the value of the
properties downtown, please don't

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disregard um what the decisions that
you've already made to help downtown.

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Thank you.
>> Thank you, Miss Davidson.

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» My name is Bill Mosley. the CEO of GL
Solutions, a Calispell business that

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employs about 80 people here and also
the past chair of the chamber and the

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current chair of the downtown Calispel
Ford and a former city councelor. Uh so

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I know what it's like to sit where
you're sitting. I've written numerous

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studies on these parking kind of things.
It seems to be a hot topic. Um there was

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some reference that maybe the last one
was paid for. Nope, that except in my um

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two of my Saturdays it was not paid for.
the one that we presented from the

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downtown Calispel Ford. Um, but I wanted
to talk to you about it. When I first

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came and presented to in the work
session, I made the point that parking

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discussions are easy to derail. Everyone
knows something about parking just like

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they do driving and roads and so they
have a lot of critique about it. They're

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not necessar there actually is a whole
science behind parking um, believe it or

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not. But it's easy to find something you
don't like and it's easy to find all the

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little bitty things and actually have it
pile on top of one another until there's

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nothing done at all. Um I think focusing
on just one component of this overall

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plan can obscure the larger objective we
have. Uh the downtown call forward was

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never about license plate reader
technology per se. The objective was

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downtown revitalization.
customers need better accesses to the

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businesses or they won't shop there and
they're not shopping there for this

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exact reason. Uh we want a stronger
downtown businesses and if it's not

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convenient to go downtown, they're going
to go to the mall. So we have a choice.

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Do we want to drive business up to the
mall or do we want to drive it towards

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our local entrepreneurs and the downtown
Calispel Ford Coalition wants the

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business downtown? It's the heart of our
community. It's where we should shop.

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the people that own those um those
stores are all local people providing

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jobs to to local Calpell residents. We
went through an extensive process in the

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development of the parking study. We did
two business walks. I personally went

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door todoor from businesses um all
throughout downtown. We vis literally

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walked in and visited every single
business in the whole radius trying to

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collect input. We did um two surveys. We
had probably 20 public meetings on the

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topic. Uh we went to two of the parking
advisory board meetings um that were

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conducted on this on this topic. We went
to a council work session and had a

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public hearing. Um consistently
throughout all of that outreach, uh we

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found that parking management is the
number one economic development tool

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that concerned business owners downtown,
bar none. It was like 60% and then

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everything else fell away after that. um
parking was the key issue and it was the

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most cited concern of struggling
business owners. My concern tonight

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isn't necessarily that a particular
recommendation was rejected. It's that a

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year of work and public input and the
advisory review was set aside at the

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final stage without notice despite the
fact that the counselors themselves said

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that they were in support of this
measure just not weeks before that. Um,

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if you're someone who is investing your
time and talent without uh without

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really any reward other than seeing the
community that you love grow, it's very

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disheartening to to have that kind of a
process take place. Um, the process

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matters u because you have volunteers,
businesses, boards, and staff

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participating because they believe that
their input actually counted for

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something. The confidence that the
community has in civic education and the

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council's ability to lead our community
depends upon a regular thoughtful

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process that people can participate in
it, not last minute decisions. If you

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want to harness the the talent of people
like those that participate in this

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process, then you need to provide a a
fair and open means for them to to

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participate. It can't be done randomly
like that. Um the question now is really

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what enforcement strategy replaces the
one that was removed. It's fine that we

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have a parking policy, but if there's no
means to to implement that policy, if

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there's no effective enforcement, it's
not going to matter at all. People are

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going to park wherever they want to. The
employees are still going to occupy the

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the surface street parking directly in
front of the the businesses. Um the

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question really for council is that we
need an alternate approach. How are you

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going to It is the council's job. You we
received direction from many counselors

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that economic development downtown was
important to them. How are you going to

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further that objective? Now, it's very
easy to say no to something. It's a lot

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harder to show leadership on this
particular issue, and that's what we're

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asking for. I ask that you preserve the
momentum on downtown re revitalization.

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Um, we can't wait a year. Our businesses
need um their patrons to be able to park

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in front of their shops now, not in a
year. Um, and I again, I just say that

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tonight isn't really about reloitating
a technology decision by itself. It's

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about really preserving the integrity of
the community participation process that

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was really quite extensive up until a
week ago. Thank you.

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» Thank you, Mr. Mosley.

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» Okay.

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Hello, council, mayor, city staff, and
members of the business community. Um,

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my name is Byron Kringle. Uh, I am from
Whitefish currently, but my loyalties

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lie with the cheapest rent, so we'll
see. Uh, I was here last week during the

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rather contentious meeting uh, regarding
the cameras and really the hard work

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that you guys put into the parking
situation downtown. Uh, we did get to

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hear from Miss Miss Cassie, right? Is
your name?

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» Kissa. My apologies. It was nice to be
able to hear from you. I wish that we

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had been able to hear a little bit
sooner. Um, but you guys asked for

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people to come back with some ideas and
some feedback next week. Unfortunately,

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I don't think uh I think most by the
time that was said, most people were

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walking out the door, unfortunately. Uh,
but I had a few couple little feedback

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things to give.
Uh, first of all, um, I did not know

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until the meeting last week that just
any member of the public could actually

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get a permit in the permit parking lot.
I I heard that and I actually had to

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come to this building, get sent
downstairs, then across the street to

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confirm that that was accurate. I tried
looking on the website. I tried googling

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it. I didn't know that. I thought that
if you weren't an employee of one of the

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businesses, then you just figure out
where to park. So maybe put a couple

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hyperlinks on the website would be good.
You know, a little bit more

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communication of, hey, the permit
parking is something that anybody in the

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public can do. Um, let's see.
Parking in place.

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Um, also I didn't I couldn't find a uh
councelor Waterman mentioned offhand the

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parking garage that had been in the
works for a few years and I kind of got

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a laugh from a few people. I didn't know
anything about it. I also couldn't find

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any updates to it online, but I thought
that was also a very compelling

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uh I thought it was a very compelling
thing because I live in Whitefish and I

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think the parking garage down there does
a really good job of what it is. I don't

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know where that's sitting as I'm a
member of the uninformed public. Uh but

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I just wanted to give those couple
things to you and say that I do

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appreciate the work that the business
community has come to. I'm sorry that

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most of the public wasn't there for
those initial meetings. I think when it

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comes to local government, a lot of
people don't really think about it or

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care until something major hits them and
then everybody wants to come up all at

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once. Um I didn't even know about the
meetings, all the different meetings

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regarding the cameras and stuff myself
until the last meeting. That's why I

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00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,919
that's the first one that I came to. Um
but I don't think that the work you guys

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did should go to waste. I do think that
it should be taken into account to give

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the customers, myself included. I shop
downtown at least twice a week, proper

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access and also the um
business employees proper access. So, I

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wish the council luck. Um this has
clearly been a contentious issue with

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the public even though they didn't show
up tonight when you guys wanted more

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ideas. Um but I also don't want to see
the work go to waste. I think the most

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00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:41,200
important thing you guys could do is get
a policy in place first because I know

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that uh the the policy was going to be
finalized after a vendor was selected.

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There was some contention in that. I
think the policy is the most important

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00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:55,280
thing that would help the public have
more trust in these systems that as was

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00:19:52,000 --> 00:20:00,000
pointed out they had a lot of
misunderstandings about. So thank for

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00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,760
thank you guys for your work. Thank you
for listening last week and taking a

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00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:06,400
breath to say, "Hey, let's make sure
we're doing this right." I really

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00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:11,640
appreciate it. I hope you guys have a
good night.

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00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,640
» Thank you, sir.

255
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:27,840
Hi, I'm Bella Brown. Um, I work with
Ford Montana. And the reason I

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00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:34,400
originally came here was to talk about
um getting a nonprofit or community and

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00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:38,880
or a community benefit rate established
with the community like the parks and

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00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:45,039
the public spaces. Um kind of related to
the black parties. Um just I think it's

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00:20:41,919 --> 00:20:50,000
related due to the parking concerns. Um
whenever we gather um right now this is

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a huge limitation especially whenever we
talk about um even whenever you're

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talking about like parking in itself. um
as a individual sometimes, you know, I'm

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balling on a budget, so that's expensive
to get a parking permit for Cali Spell.

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But, um you know, while I'm sitting
here, um and I I I do want to say I

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00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:14,640
appreciate y'all for um handling such a
tricky situation. Um I've recently been

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00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:19,520
reading this book called uh Paved
Paradise, which is about parking. I

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00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:24,080
recommend it. It's on Libby, free. Um if
with your library card, support your

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00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:29,440
local libraries. Um but it talks about
um the parking problem and um we've

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00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,720
historically built regulations and
development patterns around

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accommodating cars and over time that
can create um self reinforcement and

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00:21:36,914 --> 00:21:49,360
[sighs] um demand for parking and I
think that a big problem um would be to

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00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:55,280
con to continue that and instead maybe
um addressing the parking problem would

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00:21:51,760 --> 00:22:00,000
be public transportation, which I know I
know funding is a huge issue. Um, and if

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00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,919
we're going to make any changes in
allocating anything, I think we should,

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00:22:02,159 --> 00:22:09,520
you know, book that for bookmark that
for next year's um, transit budget. Um

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00:22:06,799 --> 00:22:15,679
because I know a lot of workers and a
lot of individuals who would love um to

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00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:21,760
not have to drive to work and not have
to drive um in the across the different

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00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:26,480
cities, especially during the winter and
all these other times. Um and when we

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talk about parking, we need to think
about supply and demand because um

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00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:34,240
you're right, whenever it becomes
difficult to park, people are just going

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00:22:32,559 --> 00:22:38,480
to be like, "Oh, I'm I'm not going to do
it." And they're not going to go to the

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00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:44,799
mall. the mall's dead, respectfully. Um
they're going to go online. Um and

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00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:50,799
that's that's the truth. Um and so I
just would argue um that in order to fix

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00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:58,559
the parking problem, we need to think
about a more systemic fix and not just

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00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:03,440
enforcement on a controversial
possible policy decision. Um and instead

285
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:10,799
we could think about a solution that
will give um autonomy to a lot of our um

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00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:16,640
community members and flexibility in
their lives. And so um I just will

287
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:20,480
encourage you to think about that um as
you make decisions and think about um

288
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:24,080
the broader issues that we're dealing
with whenever you think about um

289
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:29,840
spending some of this money. Um and I I
do respect that the chamber wants more

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00:23:26,159 --> 00:23:36,880
customers. Um I'm rooting for y'all. Um,
I I love going downtown and shopping.

291
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:40,640
Um, but you know, it is a huge problem
whenever you can't find parking and

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00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:46,960
whenever you're I I do live in
Whitefish. I know. Um, but whenever I

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00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:53,840
come downtown, um, I usually come after
hours because I don't want to have to

294
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:59,039
pay for parking and even then, um,
yeah, I just I'm I'm pretty sure my

295
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:03,440
time's up. Paid Paradise. Check it out.
It's a huge problem. Um, and you aren't

296
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:06,159
the first person or people to deal with
this. Um, we aren't the first community

297
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:11,200
deal with this. We could learn a lot
from a lot of different communities.

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00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:15,480
And, um, I hope y'all take that. Thank
you.

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00:24:11,919 --> 00:24:15,480
» Thank you, Miss Brown.

300
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,559
Last chance.

301
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:50,720
» Good evening. Uh, my name is Robert Lee.
I'm creator of Guardians of the Valley,

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00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:53,919
administrator of Flathead Registry
Watch.

303
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:58,799
I stood before the council previously,
but tonight I'm here to repeat. I'm not

304
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:02,960
here to repeat myself. I'm here to ask a
different question. What happens after

305
00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:08,080
someone is convicted? Protecting
children cannot end at the courthouse

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00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:14,400
doors. A conviction is not the finish
line. It is where accountability begins.

307
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:19,039
Montana already has laws requiring
sexual offenders to register. We have

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00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:23,360
different levels of supervision. We have
verification requirements. We have

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00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:28,000
restrictions that can be imposed on
high-risisk offenders. So my question is

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00:25:25,919 --> 00:25:33,600
simple. Are we using those laws to their
fullest potential? No. Because a law

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00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:39,279
sitting on a page does not protect a
child. Enforcement does, supervision

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00:25:36,799 --> 00:25:45,520
does, communication does, and
consequences do.

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00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:53,039
Under 12 law candidates are out in two
to four years on a minimum 25 to 100year

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00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:58,960
sentence with no parole within 25 years.
Yet our city is full of them. Six of

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00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:06,559
these under 12 candidates live in a
taxpaying housing complex in downtown

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00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:11,520
Callispel. We're paying their rent,
their food, and everything when they

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00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:16,640
should be in prison. I'd rather pay him
to be there.

318
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:21,919
Statute 45555034.
Sexual exploitation of a child victims

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00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:28,880
under 12 offenders over 18
100 years sentence up to first 25 years

320
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:34,960
is non-parole eligibility. Subject to
limited expectations.

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00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:40,480
45-56254.
Sexual abuse of child under the age of

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00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:46,960
12 by offenders over the age of 18.
100 years with first 25 years mandatory

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00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:52,360
non-p parole subject to limitation
statutory

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00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:52,360
exceptions.

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00:26:52,559 --> 00:27:01,279
Um there is one particular case
infamiliar I'm sure we all know who

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00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:06,320
Robert McGuffrey is.
Uh, Robert McGuffrey was sentenced in

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00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:12,720
April of 2015,
17 months ago, of sexual assault to an

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00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:18,000
8-year-old and a 10-year-old girl and
his family member and only spent 12

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00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:21,840
months in prison.
He had four counts, but he had a plea

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00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:26,640
deal. Why are we giving these people
plea deals? Why is he not in prison for

331
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:30,960
25 years?
So, no, he's not. He's hanging around

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00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:35,360
the warming center who houses and
protects all these people.

333
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:40,320
There was an incident since our last
meeting that I'm sure you might have

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00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:45,600
shrugged off. A woman shopping at Super
One, which the community is calling the

335
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:50,240
mad jacker, was followed and stalked by
a man who was tugging on it in public

336
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:54,080
and in front of her child. The man in
question was a registered violent

337
00:27:51,760 --> 00:28:00,880
offender who assaulted with a weapon and
only received probation.

338
00:27:57,279 --> 00:28:06,880
He was out of jail within 30 minutes to
wander and potentially do it again. Will

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00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:13,520
he be registered or charged? Doubt it.
This is called zero enforcement. This is

340
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:18,480
a dishonest to our community. We need to
enforce these laws in Montana because

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00:28:15,919 --> 00:28:22,799
protecting children shouldn't begin
after the next tragedy. It should begin

342
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:27,200
with what we choose to do now. Our
children deserve nothing less. Thank

343
00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:30,440
you.
Yes, sir.

344
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,679
» Good evening, council. My name is John
McDonald. I'm a resident of Callispel.

345
00:28:51,919 --> 00:28:57,760
Uh, I'd first like to thank you guys for
voting away the cameras for a year and

346
00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:02,559
giving us a chance to give you guys a
solution. I think that I have part of

347
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:08,399
one. Um, and we can work on the next
part at a later date. Um, but first I'd

348
00:29:05,919 --> 00:29:12,559
like to say, uh, I've been telling Mr.
Leverage in particular something

349
00:29:10,159 --> 00:29:16,880
incorrect. Um, and he told me he
corrected me. Uh, and I'd say that I was

350
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:23,120
wrong when I was wrong. So, I'd like to
say that I was wrong.

351
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:26,880
Um, that took me 15 seconds.
Um, that's what that's what that's what

352
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:32,799
it cost me. So, I want you to remember
that because everything else I say from

353
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:37,440
after this is going to support that. Um,
so in January of 22, the development

354
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,720
services director presents this project
to the council. Quote, "What we're

355
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:46,640
looking at is a public infrastructure
project for a public parking garage. It

356
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:50,399
would remain in city ownership." Nine
months later, this council approved

357
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:56,159
something different. Developerowned,
developer operated,

358
00:29:52,799 --> 00:30:01,520
but leased back to the city. The vote
for that was 8 to1. And Mr. Mayor, I'd

359
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:05,840
like to say that you were right uh three
separate times. And you and I have

360
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:10,640
disagreed for a lot of about a lot of
things for all summer. Um and I will say

361
00:30:08,399 --> 00:30:16,080
that you were right. Uh and this council
should have listened to you on that. Um,

362
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:21,279
and the one proposal that came back for
the city was there was never even a

363
00:30:17,919 --> 00:30:26,240
second bidder. The downtown urban
renewal district was established in

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00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:31,760
2019. It terminates in February of
February 4th, 2034. The Montana

365
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:35,360
Department of Revenue 25 2025 master
list

366
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:40,000
says that no bonds have ever been issued
against it, not one in seven years. And

367
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:43,840
that took me 20 minutes to find. Um, and
I'm not a financial I'm not a finance

368
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:48,640
professor.
I have a job. Um, I just spent 20

369
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:53,279
minutes at my kitchen table after work
one night. Uh, and that that's what that

370
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:56,799
took to find that out. So, um, the city
does not write a check for that garage.

371
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:01,520
The building generates property taxes
and the increment from those taxes pay

372
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:04,559
the cost back. If there's no building,
there's no increment and no increment

373
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:08,960
means there's no reimbursement. So,
there is one question and for how much

374
00:31:06,799 --> 00:31:15,600
and for how long?
In January 22, the projector reported

375
00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:20,720
the at the time was $516,000
a year. That's $516,000

376
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:25,760
a year against a garage estimated at 19
point or $9.2 million.

377
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:31,039
That division is about 18 years. The
district has 7 and a half years left and

378
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:35,760
the building does not even exist. Not a
footing has been poured, not a shovel

379
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,440
has been put in the ground, nothing.
There's an empty parking lot. So, the

380
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:43,600
18-year clock has not started, and the
seven and a halfyear clock is running

381
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:47,120
tonight in this room while we talk. And
now, I want to be careful with that

382
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:53,200
because I'm not going to do what I what
has been done for me.

383
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:57,840
516,000 is a projection from 22, not a
guarantee. Values change and this

384
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:03,519
project grew from 34 million to 80
million. So, a bigger building might

385
00:32:00,159 --> 00:32:07,760
well throw off more. I'm not telling you
18 years is the answer. I'm telling you

386
00:32:05,919 --> 00:32:11,519
is the only that I'm telling you it is
the only published figure anybody has

387
00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:16,080
and that it misses the time remaining by
more than double and that in four years

388
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:20,960
nobody has put a better one in front of
the public. If it is wrong somebody at

389
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:25,279
that table has a better number and I
would like to see it. Um and if nobody

390
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:28,799
has one then the city has carried a $9
million obligation for four years

391
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:35,840
without ever checking whether the thing
pays for itself can finish the job. So

392
00:32:31,919 --> 00:32:40,640
the public parking exists if and only if
one private company finishes one private

393
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:46,240
building. March 2024 the developer to
this council said blacked out of a deal

394
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:51,120
back his partner backed out of the deal
due to the current economic client

395
00:32:48,399 --> 00:32:55,039
climate. He doesn't have the capital for
available to start construction. That is

396
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:59,760
more canandor than this project has
gotten from anybody since. He also said

397
00:32:57,919 --> 00:33:03,840
that he was working with another
investor, but that ne investor has never

398
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:08,480
been named and it's still not been
named.

399
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:11,600
Um, so I understand a member of the
council may bring something forward

400
00:33:09,919 --> 00:33:15,600
about the developer financing and what
the garage will cost. If that happens, I

401
00:33:13,679 --> 00:33:20,640
will not ask twice. I will say what it
needs and get it out of the way. A date,

402
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:25,840
not staff will look into it. A date that
is certain. Open session, not a memo.

403
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:29,679
If a resident has to file records
requests to learn the answer to a

404
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:33,360
council motion, the motion accomplished
nothing. So, what financing

405
00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:37,039
documentation the developers has
submitted since April of 2024 and

406
00:33:35,679 --> 00:33:40,320
whether the quarterly payments are
current?

407
00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:44,159
The most that the city can be required
to reimburse and if there is no cap,

408
00:33:42,399 --> 00:33:47,919
somebody should say that there is no cap
out loud in this room because there is a

409
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:52,559
different fact than that than than
nobody knowing. Um, and how many stalls

410
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:57,440
the public is contractually guaranteed.
And I don't want like there should be a

411
00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:01,519
a policy that says
how many public stalls there are. Um,

412
00:33:59,679 --> 00:34:06,240
and I've looked and I cannot find it.
Uh, and I would put no money that nobody

413
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:10,639
at the table can answer it tonight. Um,
it's not an accusation. That's just the

414
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:14,560
problem. Um, and so I have five things.
I've asked you, Mr. Ma manager, about

415
00:34:12,879 --> 00:34:18,720
them. You haven't emailed me back yet. I
asked for that tonight. You never

416
00:34:15,839 --> 00:34:22,720
emailed me back. Um, so I answered two
of them. Uh, and three of them maybe you

417
00:34:20,720 --> 00:34:27,119
can email me back. I already emailed you
them. Um, but councelor Leftridge,

418
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:31,119
you've been very, uh, coherent in
dialoguing with me. Um, and I'd like to

419
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:35,599
thank you for that. Uh, Councelor
Gabriel, uh, this is going to you as

420
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:39,760
well. You spent 20 years finding money
for things the city needed and could not

421
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:42,480
obviously afford. Um, and so that's the
problem in front of you tonight, and I

422
00:34:41,359 --> 00:34:46,879
don't think anybody has really brought
it forward in front of you. Uh, and then

423
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:50,720
councelor Blake, you said that you
wanted data and solutions, not attacks.

424
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:54,560
So, this is my attempt at the second
one. Um, I'm not asking the three of you

425
00:34:52,960 --> 00:35:00,800
to agree with me. I'm just asking you to
be curious for my 30-day response.

426
00:34:58,079 --> 00:35:05,760
Um, and then real quick before I go, Mr.
Mr. uh, Mr. City Manager, um, on August

427
00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:08,720
18th, I wrote to you about this garage
and you answered me. Same week on the

428
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,720
substance, and I'm not going to tell
this room you ignored me because it's

429
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:18,160
not true. And you have the email. But
the next afternoon,

430
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:22,560
I sent more than five five questions
that you could have easily gotten the

431
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,720
answers to, and I asked for a response
by Monday. Um, it's currently Monday.

432
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:31,920
You haven't responded to me. Um, and
I've told I'm told that the city has no

433
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:35,680
legal deadline to answer me. Um, and I
looked it up. It's true. So, I so I

434
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,960
understand exactly what I'm describing.
It's not a violation, and you're not

435
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:42,800
breaking the law, but it is a choice to
not answer me. Um, so no law really

436
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:48,400
requires you to. No election really
requires you to. Um, but you do get paid

437
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:52,400
$200,000 a year. Uh, which is more than
these council members make. And if two

438
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:58,079
of them can respond to me in a timely
manner, I feel like that you are more

439
00:35:55,359 --> 00:36:00,880
than capable of doing that. Uh, you are
the least accountable person in this

440
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:05,680
building, sir, and you are the man
holding the file. $200,000 a year, five

441
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:10,400
requests, five days, and you've given me
nothing. Uh, so I answered two of those

442
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:15,280
myself over a weekend and around a job.
Um, so if you could just give me that,

443
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:18,880
that'd be great. Um, because answering a
answering the public's not a favor that

444
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:22,560
the city manager does when he has time.
It's actually your job to do. So, if you

445
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:28,280
could just do that, that'd be wonderful.
Anyway, thank you.

446
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,280
» Thank you, Mr. McN.

447
00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:39,040
Hands raised.
Okay. If you are online with your hands

448
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:42,440
raised, if you could uh speak to the
council, please

449
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,599
» Benjamin, do you want to go ahead?
>> Hello. Can you hear me?

450
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:53,440
» Yes.
>> Wonderful. Good evening, council. My

451
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:56,960
name is Benjamin Lipsky and first of
all, I want to thank you very much for

452
00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:00,240
taking the time for the remote comment.
I know that, you know, this is a

453
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,520
workshop and I know that you didn't get
too many remote comments last week even,

454
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:07,119
you know, when you had the whole place
full. So, thank you very much for, you

455
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:11,520
know, opening that up so I can have my
voice heard. Um, let me open with

456
00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:16,079
something I do not think anybody has
said to you tonight. Last Monday, you

457
00:37:13,839 --> 00:37:19,760
guys got it right. Five of you voted to
strip the appropriation, before a vendor

458
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:24,000
was selected, before a dollar was
obligated, before anything became hard

459
00:37:21,839 --> 00:37:27,760
to undo. Procedurally, that is the
entire game, and you did it on your own

460
00:37:25,599 --> 00:37:33,839
motion. So, I'm not here to rear the
cameras. It's settled at least for a

461
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:37,920
year, and thank you very much. Um though
I am going to answer the question John

462
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:41,680
left on the table. Um a few minutes ago
a resident stood at the podium and asked

463
00:37:39,839 --> 00:37:45,760
whether this government fixes things
when it's shown to be wrong or only when

464
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:50,320
somebody makes it. And when he said he
was not going to answer it, I will. I

465
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:54,000
have spent five weeks watching and I
think the answer is knowable. And I

466
00:37:52,240 --> 00:38:00,000
think you are entitled to hear somebody
say it plainly rather than imply it.

467
00:37:56,320 --> 00:38:04,320
Here's the test I used. May 26th, public
work session of this council. The chief

468
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:09,040
of police is asked how this city guards
against overreach. On the record, he

469
00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:14,480
says writing the policy is the first
step before any use of the system.

470
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:19,200
Policy first. Then in writing to a
resident, the chief says the policy is

471
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:24,800
finalized once a vendor is selected
because procurement requires competitive

472
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:30,079
bidding. Vendor first. Two sentences,
one official, one system.

473
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:33,359
Let me make the chief's defense for him.
There is an answer available here, and I

474
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:39,440
would rather give it to you myself than
have it given to me. Montana's license

475
00:38:35,599 --> 00:38:45,040
plate reader statue is 46517,
enacted in 2017, never amended.

476
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:51,520
It contains a parking exception at
subsection 2 AI. I am going to read it

477
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:55,920
in full because it is one sentence. in a
regulated parking system, but only to

478
00:38:54,160 --> 00:39:00,240
identify a vehicle's location and
license plate number to enforce parking

479
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:04,800
restrictions. That is the complete
subsection. There is no written policy

480
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:10,640
requirement anywhere in it. The written
policy mandate is at 2DI and it attaches

481
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:14,880
to a law enforcement agency operating a
reader system. So, it is entirely

482
00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:18,880
possible that the chief was describing
what the law permits and this council

483
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,720
was describing what it intends and both
were right about different things.

484
00:39:20,720 --> 00:39:27,520
Nobody broke the law. I want that said
in my own voice on this record before I

485
00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:32,160
say anything else. Now read that one
sentence again and notice what is not in

486
00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:37,280
it. No retention limit, no restriction
on sharing, no audit requirement, no

487
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:40,960
policy requirement. And I want to be
exact because this is the part that

488
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,800
matters. The legislature knew how to
write those protections. Every one of

489
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:50,160
them is in the law enforcement
subsection. written policy at 2DI,

490
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:57,839
retention at 2DIB,
data sharing at 2DIC, and annual audit

491
00:39:53,280 --> 00:40:02,000
at 2D II. They wrote all of it. And then
they wrote a parking exception with none

492
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:05,839
of it. That provision authorizes a use,
and it protects nothing, which means

493
00:40:04,079 --> 00:40:09,680
every safeguard anyone in this room was
promised is voluntary.

494
00:40:08,079 --> 00:40:15,599
Not one is required by the state of
Montana. They exist only if this council

495
00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:20,160
writes them down and binds itself.
Next, I want to give you four dates. So,

496
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:24,720
July, the city manager tells this public
that state law requires the city to

497
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,240
adopt the policy. August 10th, the
chief's written statement is read into

498
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:32,480
this room in public comment by a
resident. That same night, a member of

499
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:36,800
this council responds to it directly and
says, quoting him, "We can't really

500
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:43,040
purchase the system or even test the
system until we have the policy." August

501
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:48,480
17th, a week ago. It is read into this
room a second time. And that night, the

502
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:54,720
city manager confirms that that table
the policy precedes vendor selection.

503
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:58,960
Tonight, two weeks after the first
reading, the chief has not said which of

504
00:40:56,720 --> 00:41:02,880
his two statements is operative. I want
to be precise about what that does and

505
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:07,839
does not establish because this is where
people overreach, and I'm not going to.

506
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:11,440
It does not establish dishonesty. It
does not establish illegality. I just

507
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:16,000
spent two minutes explaining why it
establishes neither. And I mean it. It

508
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:19,599
establishes one thing, though. A
department head in this city can be

509
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:24,240
publicly contradicted by his own
government twice in two weeks and

510
00:41:22,319 --> 00:41:29,359
declined to clarify. And nothing in this
building really requires him to. And

511
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:34,240
I'll give credit because it makes the
point rather than softening it. One of

512
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:39,200
you read a full set of policy terms into
this record last Monday before public

513
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:43,440
comment even began. 7-day purge, city
servers only, audited access, no sharing

514
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:48,560
with anyone, including other law
enforcement, without a judicial warrant,

515
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:52,560
one reader, one marked vehicle. That was
a councilman doing this work in public,

516
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:56,960
unprompted, and it was the best thing
that happened in this room all summer.

517
00:41:55,040 --> 00:42:01,040
It is also at this moment a set of
statements in a transcript. not an

518
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:05,280
ordinance, not a resolution, not a
contract term. And I told you a moment

519
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:09,920
ago that the statute requires nothing in
a parking system. So those terms are not

520
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:16,079
an extra layer of protection. They're
the only protection that would exist.

521
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:19,680
Now, let me tell you what this costs. I
want to be specific about where

522
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,200
tonight's facts came from because I do
not think anyone has said it plainly,

523
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:28,640
and I think it is the actual answer to
John's question. First public comment on

524
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:34,160
this was July 13th. The budget vote was
August 17th, five weeks. In those five

525
00:42:32,079 --> 00:42:38,800
weeks, residents of the city assembled
vendor documentation, error rate

526
00:42:36,319 --> 00:42:44,160
statistics, an analysis of third party
data custody, Montana Supreme Court

527
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:48,480
president briefed correctly, mind you,
four-year-old newspaper coverage nobody

528
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:52,240
had opened since it was printed, a state
tax database entry carrying the

529
00:42:50,319 --> 00:42:57,040
expiration date of this city's downtown
financing district. transcripts of your

530
00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:01,200
own meetings, index, source packets,
printed, handd delivered to every one of

531
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:05,920
you. About 18 people spoke on that
budget line. Not one spoke in favor.

532
00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:10,319
None of them work here. And not one of
those documents came out of this

533
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:14,640
building. Not one. This city has a legal
department, a clerk's office, a records

534
00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:19,520
division, a city manager on a 5-year
contract, north of a million dollars,

535
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:23,760
mind you. and the expiration date on the
district that is supposed to pay for a

536
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:28,400
$9 million garage was found by a man at
his kitchen table in 20 minutes. I'm not

537
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,319
calling anyone in this building
dishonest and I'm not calling anyone

538
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:36,160
idol. I'm saying something structural
and I would ask you to hear it that way.

539
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:40,480
A transparent government does not
produce this record. Not because it is

540
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:44,319
more honest than this one, because in a
transparent city, none of that work is

541
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:48,960
necessary. The documents are already
posted. The contradiction is fixed the

542
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:53,119
week it appears and 18 people spend that
Monday evening with their families. That

543
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:57,359
should trouble you more than it troubles
me because you are the ones who have to

544
00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:01,359
govern inside of it. Five of you cast a
vote last Monday on material residents

545
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:05,839
assembled because nobody in this
building assembled it first. You should

546
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:10,720
not have to learn what your own adopted
parking strategy says from a man at a

547
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:15,040
microphone holding a print out. And I'll
say the honest thing about John because

548
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:20,000
somebody should. John McDonald has been
hot at this podium. In July, he said

549
00:44:17,599 --> 00:44:23,280
things I would not have said. I'm not
gonna pretend otherwise because some of

550
00:44:21,599 --> 00:44:27,440
you are in the room and you know better
than I do. I'm not going to tell you he

551
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:32,400
has been perfect. But here's what I'll
tell you. Since July, every error in

552
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:36,640
this record has been corrected by the
person who made it. He read a statute

553
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,920
too broadly and came back and said so.
He got a number wrong on that garage and

554
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,440
corrected it from the podium tonight
unprompted before anyone in this

555
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:47,760
building could use against him and it
took him 50 15 seconds like you said out

556
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:52,640
of his own mouth. Nobody made him do
that. That that is more correction than

557
00:44:50,319 --> 00:44:56,480
the city has issued the whole summer. So
there here's the comparison and is the

558
00:44:55,119 --> 00:45:00,640
answer to the question he wouldn't
answer. One side of that podium runs

559
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:04,640
warm and fixes its own mistakes in
public. The other side is measured,

560
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:08,880
professional, never raised its voice,
and has not corrected a single thing in

561
00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:13,760
five weeks. I know which of those I
would rather have hold in the database

562
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:18,319
of license plates for the city. Um,
lastly, what I'm asking for, Chief, one

563
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:22,560
of those two statements is operative.
Say which one. If the answer is that the

564
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:26,240
parking exception permits vendor first
and that is the department's this

565
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:29,839
department's position, then say that.
I'll accept it and I'll say publicly

566
00:45:27,839 --> 00:45:33,119
that you answered. Nobody is asking for
an apology. Nobody's asking you to

567
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:36,960
resign and I want that clear because
it's not the council's in the council's

568
00:45:35,359 --> 00:45:42,240
authority and it's not what I came here
for. We're asking which sentence

569
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:48,880
governs. 30 seconds, no money, no staff
time, no vote adverse to anyone. And to

570
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:52,800
this council, if those policy terms uh
one of you read in the record are worth

571
00:45:50,720 --> 00:45:57,040
anything, adopt them in writing while
there is no money on the table and no

572
00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:00,800
vendor waiting. One more thing and then
I'm done. There is a man in this town

573
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:04,000
who reads these agreements, files the
requests, shows up every other Monday,

574
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,520
and tells the truth about himself in
public when it costs him something. He's

575
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:12,480
not going to say a word about what comes
next. So, I'll say this much and stop.

576
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:16,480
Callispel should think hard about where
it wants that man sitting. Correct the

577
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:20,480
record tonight. It's the least expensive
thing this council could possibly do.

578
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,800
Thank you for taking remote comment.
Thank you for last Monday. God bless

579
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:30,839
America and the Lord be with you,
Calispo.

580
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,839
Thank you, sir.

581
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:41,440
Okay, seeing no further public comment,
we'll move on to our uh agenda item.

582
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:44,800
City-owned downtown parking lot rental
and residential block parties. Mr. Nag

583
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:48,960
staff report.
>> Yeah, Mayor and Council got uh kind of

584
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:56,079
two items for discussion here. The first
being uh the ability and this also stems

585
00:46:52,480 --> 00:47:00,560
from the downtown stakeholder um kind of
plan that had been put forward to

586
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:04,800
council. just as general idea and just a
little context to this as well because

587
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:10,400
city has also had some requests in the
past that we haven't really been able to

588
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:15,440
um act on but uh as you know the city
does have you know a special event

589
00:47:13,359 --> 00:47:19,520
permit that it does an alcohol permit
that it does subject to Calispo

590
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:22,880
municipal code regulations which we can
get into that a vending permit

591
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:27,119
application but really what we're
looking at is just some guidance on

592
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:33,359
whether or not city-owned parking lots
uh within in the downtown uh could be

593
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:38,000
utilized for such events. Um as you know
uh during the daytime during the week uh

594
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,599
most of the permit lots do have permits
issued within them. So I think it would

595
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:45,680
be a a bit difficult especially in the
interim here as we do work through

596
00:47:43,359 --> 00:47:50,480
parking uh situations downtown to do
anything but certainly on the weekends

597
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:55,359
um there would be the opportunity for um
special events if uh somebody did want

598
00:47:52,960 --> 00:48:00,079
to do that. So I do have the permits.
say we're in the application um or sorry

599
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:05,520
in the packet here just kind of
outlining what our fee schedule is, what

600
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:12,640
kind of events could be utilized um and
such. I would say one thing I want to

601
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:18,160
outline as well is
let's see here two things. if the city

602
00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:23,280
did wanted whether they the the council
would want to proceed with allowing

603
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:27,839
something on city downtown lots. Um
whether there should be a fee associated

604
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:33,200
with that in addition to what just our
our typical application fee is which is

605
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:37,520
outlined on the permits. Um and as well
so in general the downtown kind of

606
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:42,079
grappled with this a number of years ago
as far as alcohol and where alcohol

607
00:48:39,359 --> 00:48:47,280
could be consumed on city property in
general. what what the council went with

608
00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:53,119
is just downtown. So the B3 and B4
zones, the the park line trail um and as

609
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:56,720
you would uh suspect, most of the city
parking lots would be within those

610
00:48:54,800 --> 00:49:00,640
zones. So just um whether or not the
city would also potentially want to

611
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:03,839
allow for alcohol uh on those city lots
as well. So I guess we could start off

612
00:49:02,079 --> 00:49:08,559
with the conversation there. happy to
answer any questions. But as it stands,

613
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:14,000
um, as you look, you know, some of the
the city-owned properties, you've got

614
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:17,760
lease properties up up here and city-
owned properties down here, city

615
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,200
rideaways, but there's no mention of
city-owned parking lots. So, looking to

616
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:24,720
get a little guidance on that and
whether council would support such an

617
00:49:22,720 --> 00:49:29,839
action.
>> Questions or comments? Mr. D, I

618
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:36,000
» I just want to be super clear here. So,
um, what we're looking at specifically

619
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:42,720
is should we and then how should we
incorporate city parking lots into the

620
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:46,240
uh ability to reserve them for events on
the weekends.

621
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:50,400
» Correct. Or potentially even longer than
weekends. Although, as we know, there is

622
00:49:47,839 --> 00:49:55,760
parking on those during the week. um you
know just you know another thing that

623
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:58,400
came up about this time last year um you
know we had somebody that actually

624
00:49:56,880 --> 00:50:01,839
wanted to rent out a lot for a whole
month to do like a Christmas market or

625
00:50:00,319 --> 00:50:04,480
something along those lines. So
certainly I think there would be some

626
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:08,480
struggles with that just giving the
parking the parking dynamics and where

627
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:12,079
those those people that it permits uh
within those lots would go but at least

628
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:16,400
thought that that would be something
that council could consider and discuss

629
00:50:13,839 --> 00:50:20,800
as we um as we go over this. So,
>> I I think it would be extremely helpful

630
00:50:18,319 --> 00:50:29,839
to f find out what the process is right
now for um reserving uh you know, public

631
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:33,119
property for for an event. Um just for
the public's information, I know what it

632
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:38,240
is and I I I have a little bit of a
problem with it, but I want to I want to

633
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:40,559
hear what what it is today first.
>> Yeah.

634
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:43,680
» So, you're just talking about park
rentals in general.

635
00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:49,440
» Let's say I want a a gazebo at Woodland
Park. Uh so if it's a private function,

636
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:55,599
you just get online on the portal. You
you would need an account. Uh you go

637
00:50:51,680 --> 00:51:00,720
through the uh request portion uh enter
some information and then uh our team

638
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:07,920
would review it and then you would be
submitted a um essentially a bill for

639
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:12,000
what you're asking for. Once uh that is
paid in full, then you get a receipt

640
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:16,400
showing that that you have that time,
that specific time.

641
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:20,880
uh park or facility rented for that
those hours.

642
00:51:17,839 --> 00:51:27,839
» Okay. So, um one piece of information
there that we kind of didn't didn't hear

643
00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:33,839
about is if anybody wants to rent
uh the pavilion or a space. Um when is

644
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:39,440
insurance required or when it is not?
When is it not? If uh when insurance is

645
00:51:37,359 --> 00:51:46,079
required is if it's an event uh if
you're inviting the public uh then we do

646
00:51:41,839 --> 00:51:50,400
require to have insurance. Um
so specifically that's when it's kicked

647
00:51:48,319 --> 00:51:54,960
in. But if you're if it's like a
birthday party, a family gathering, um

648
00:51:53,359 --> 00:51:58,000
something like that, no insurance is
required.

649
00:51:56,079 --> 00:52:02,240
» Okay. And just to put this into
perspective, I I know this because I

650
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:07,680
tried to rent a pavilion in Woodland
Park to thank 12 of the duck ladies that

651
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:12,079
helped me with a duck issue when we were
having it just to thank them. And um I

652
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:16,400
had to get insurance for that because I
was inviting the public. And then when I

653
00:52:14,319 --> 00:52:21,520
went to get insurance, when I put down
the reason for my the party I was going

654
00:52:19,359 --> 00:52:25,599
to have or whatever, um they denied it
because it was politically related. Uh,

655
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:31,440
so all politically related stuff, by the
way, right now it will just get denied.

656
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:35,599
Um, so that that's just one little piece
of it. I understand it. It's if you're

657
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:38,559
going to rent out a parking lot, so this
is where I'm kind of going with this.

658
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:42,559
You're going to rent out a parking lot,
it's most likely going to be for enough

659
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:46,240
people from the public that you will be
required to have insurance. I just

660
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:52,880
wanted to make sure that everybody knew
that uh going into this. Um,

661
00:52:51,119 --> 00:52:57,440
and
I I think I actually think it's a great

662
00:52:54,480 --> 00:53:01,280
idea. I mean, the parking lot just sit
there with no cars in them on the

663
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:04,960
weekends. It would be great. I would
love to have that Christmas thing.

664
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:08,960
Actually sounds great.
I would encourage them to just do it on

665
00:53:06,720 --> 00:53:12,400
the weekends for a month instead of
through the weekdays. But it sounds like

666
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:16,319
a great event. I would love to see that
downtown Callispell. Um, so I'm I'm

667
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:22,480
excited about that. I think we should
incorporate it. Um what is is there

668
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:26,160
anything different if you're having like
a block party or is it treated exactly

669
00:53:24,319 --> 00:53:29,599
the same because we have to block
streets and stuff for that.

670
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:33,920
» So we're not really getting into that as
of now. That's kind of the next

671
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:37,040
discussion. But in general a block party
we're it it's separate in the sense

672
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:40,079
» we're going to get into it later.
>> Yeah. We'll get into I think this you

673
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:45,040
know should kind of be its own
discussion and then that that subsequent

674
00:53:42,319 --> 00:53:49,839
» but yes insurance will be required
liability insurance 750,000 1.5 million

675
00:53:48,319 --> 00:53:54,400
aggregate
>> um and that that's common with every

676
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,920
local governments and municipality
>> and it's not that expensive. It's just

677
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,319
really disappointing when you can't
thank the duck ladies.

678
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:05,200
» What does it cost?
>> Um it's super cheap. I don't know. It

679
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:10,079
was maybe 30 to 70 bucks or something
like that. It wasn't It wasn't bad for

680
00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:15,040
that pavilion. If you're doing a bigger
event, probably more more cost. Um I I'm

681
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:19,520
actually, you know, I'll let the other
council members have their go here, but

682
00:54:17,359 --> 00:54:24,960
uh after everything I've heard, I'm all
for it. I do think it should be weekends

683
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:28,559
only just because it defeats the purpose
of the parking lot to block it off for

684
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:32,559
people that have permits uh during the
week.

685
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:36,240
» Mr. Fischer,
>> um I disagree on the Christmas thing.

686
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:43,119
that could take away from a business
downtown that's paying taxes, higher

687
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:49,119
taxes than ever. Um, they move in for a
month. I get the weekend thing, but a

688
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:53,520
month competition for a downtown
business that could bring in anything if

689
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:59,200
they rent that parking lot doesn't seem
fair to our downtown business owners.

690
00:54:57,359 --> 00:55:06,160
If they're taking away business from
that, just renting a parking lot.

691
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:10,640
Furthermore, um, all for fees and
charges and insurance and bigger

692
00:55:09,119 --> 00:55:16,079
deposits.
Having dealt with this for 35 years, you

693
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:21,599
could think the best group is renting
your park or your parking lot and they

694
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:27,839
dump all their grease out or they leave
all their garbage and staff has to come

695
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:34,079
in and deal with that at a huge expense
to every taxpayer, mom and pop, elderly,

696
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:41,200
fixed income, they're then stuck for
that. So

697
00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:47,760
I I'm not for free. I want insurance.
Anybody I got people used to twist their

698
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:52,799
ankle or pop their knee out on a little
um stake that stuck up by a sidewalk by

699
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:58,880
the justice center. It was a DOT
property stake and would pay out $5,000

700
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:03,040
just to settle the dang thing. So, I
want insurance. I want good insurance to

701
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:07,839
protect the city, which is then
protecting the taxpayers. I want bigger

702
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:13,440
deposits
because

703
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:17,599
police andor parks, streets could deal
with the aftermath of a group that you

704
00:56:15,599 --> 00:56:23,760
would think would be the best in and
out, but they leave you a mess. So, this

705
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:28,880
comes from personal experience where I'd
love to just say everything is free for

706
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:35,359
everyone. Wouldn't that be cool? But
there's a cost and it takes time to deal

707
00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:39,839
with the aftermath. So, um I'm I'm for
renting them out

708
00:56:38,079 --> 00:56:43,920
with a good review that it doesn't
affect a business. Hopefully, it brings

709
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:48,960
in more business. That's what these good
folks want. That's what I would want.

710
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:54,799
That it it brings in more people to
frequent those who are now paying 20 30%

711
00:56:51,760 --> 00:57:00,799
higher taxes that I've learned. Um but
if we start taking away fees and we

712
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:05,760
start taking away insurance for certain
groups, somebody's going to get hurt and

713
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:11,359
then we pay which is the taxpayer
paying. So not for it. Um and bigger

714
00:57:09,359 --> 00:57:17,280
deposits are very interesting to me to
cover costs. Um if they're organizing,

715
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:22,520
they can they go do the fundraising and
we're whole. Then the taxpayers are

716
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:22,520
whole.

717
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:30,960
So, I'm certainly in favor of of opening
up downtown parking lots. I just want to

718
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:37,280
fully understand the process. So, let's
say we add the parking lots to this new

719
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:41,599
policy. So, now we have like the uh uh
the valley bank lot um and downtown

720
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:49,359
businesses decide to put together kind
of an artisans fair on a Saturday. So,

721
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:54,799
they apply for the permit um online,
show that there's insurance, it gets

722
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:58,160
that application gets sent to the parks
department, public works, fire

723
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:03,760
department, police department, uh city
attorney's office in order to make

724
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:08,559
comments on that.
>> Correct. So, they would just review the

725
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:13,520
entire plan. Um so yes, they would
provide comments um whether it's traffic

726
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:17,200
control, just general how the facility
is going to be used depending on the

727
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:20,559
event, but yeah, they just do a a
precursor review of the entire thing to

728
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,480
make sure that really all the concerns
have been accounted for as part of the

729
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:28,240
application.
>> How long does that review usually take?

730
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:33,599
» Yeah, less than a week.
>> Okay. Um and then what is the fee

731
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:37,040
associated with my hypothetical?
So, it kind of depends on what it is,

732
00:58:35,119 --> 00:58:43,040
but you could see here a special event
fee is $100 if it's got traffic control

733
00:58:40,319 --> 00:58:49,040
associated with it, an additional $50,
solid waste fee of $100 per hour, and a

734
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:53,119
refund refundable damage deposit, which
I think goes into kind of what Jed

735
00:58:51,119 --> 00:58:57,440
mentioned there of 200, but that's only
in regards to traffic control traffic

736
00:58:55,520 --> 00:59:02,480
control devices.
um you know in general we um an

737
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:06,720
applicant whether it's a parade or for
an event can choose to use a third-party

738
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:10,319
traffic control or use the city at which
point we would charge for that as well.

739
00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:16,319
» So recognizing most of our lots are
downtown um and you know adjacent to the

740
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:21,680
highway for example um what what would
you envision the traffic control needing

741
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:24,960
to be in place for my hypothetical
>> if it's just a city lot? Not much at

742
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:28,160
all. I guess it would depend if they
wanted to close down any adjacent

743
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:32,160
rideway. You know, one thing that comes
to mind would say when the Great Bear

744
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:36,559
Festival was downtown, they would close
down um Center Street, you know, on the

745
00:59:34,559 --> 00:59:40,880
south side of the park. So, there's
quite a bit of traffic control with

746
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:44,559
that. Um if it's just the city lot,
there probably wouldn't be much at all

747
00:59:42,799 --> 00:59:49,359
that that I could think of, you know,
unless there's a huge amount of people

748
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:53,200
and things associated with it and just
the coming and going that we would want

749
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:59,119
to account for. Um, and that's the same
with parks, you know, if if it's 10

750
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:02,640
people versus 500 and just the the
parking facilities available in the area

751
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:07,760
that we're going to have to consider.
Um, so I mean, it really will be kind of

752
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:13,119
dependent on the event, but given it's
weekends and downtown where, you know,

753
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:17,359
we're primarily office downtown, as you
know, after 5 and on on the weekends,

754
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:21,680
parking is usually not an issue. So, I
don't foresee there being huge ones, but

755
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:25,119
um you know, unless they're closing down
city streets and certainly or wanting to

756
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:28,720
do something with the highway, which
would be even much more difficult, I

757
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:31,839
wouldn't see a lot of traffic traffic
control associated with it.

758
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:35,760
» So, is there an expectation of parking
availability for certain events based

759
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:38,079
upon how many people are anticipated to
be there?

760
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:41,760
» I think there's we would want to make
sure it's not going to have an impact on

761
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:46,640
adjacent private properties to to the
extent we could. And for the solid waste

762
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:51,440
fee, is that just is that calculated
after the fact? I mean, let's say this

763
01:00:49,359 --> 01:00:55,920
artisan event cleaned up everything and
there wasn't any need for solid waste to

764
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:59,280
come in and and do the kind of, you
know, stuff that Jet's talking about. Is

765
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:02,559
that is that mandatory or is that
predicated on how much time is actually?

766
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:07,760
» I believe that's all worked out prior to
the event. So, that's a request by the

767
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:12,880
host to have extra pickup or extra
containers. So, it's not an after

768
01:01:09,520 --> 01:01:17,680
the-act um charge. It's typically when
we've reviewed them, public works has

769
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:20,720
reviewed their request and added the
fees that are associated to their work

770
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:26,240
requests.
>> So, let's say they don't have a request

771
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:30,000
for any sort of solid waste. Is there's
no fee associated with that then? I

772
01:01:27,839 --> 01:01:33,520
» I don't believe so, but I would defer to
public works to answer it.

773
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:36,000
» And then what if they made a mess?
>> And that's

774
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:40,880
» then that would be part of the um
>> part of the refundable deposit,

775
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:44,160
» which we we don't always have. So,
>> but the refundable

776
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:47,920
» Yeah. Didn't you just Yeah. Go ahead.
>> It was just you were saying just for

777
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:52,760
traffic control devices
>> as it stands now.

778
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:52,760
» Okay.

779
01:01:53,237 --> 01:01:58,720
[clears throat]
>> Okay. Thank you.

780
01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:03,760
» So, I'm still confused.
I guess my understanding the answer was

781
01:02:01,599 --> 01:02:09,520
that if there was a mess left behind
after a promise of not needing any solid

782
01:02:06,319 --> 01:02:14,079
waste assistance that the refundable
damage deposit would cover it. But we're

783
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:18,319
saying we don't charge a refundable
damage deposit for solid waste at this

784
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:23,440
time. So right now we would not have
that damage deposit for solid waste.

785
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:27,680
» We wouldn't. The refundable damage
deposit is just for traffic control.

786
01:02:25,839 --> 01:02:33,280
» Okay.
So if somebody left a mess behind

787
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:36,319
even though they indicated they clean
everything up on us.

788
01:02:35,599 --> 01:02:42,160
» Yes.
>> Okay.

789
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:47,599
» It can be hours or can be countless
hours of staff if it's a true mess.

790
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:53,200
» I guess since we're on the topic I do
want to just follow up on on the fee

791
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:58,079
schedule. Um,
I know a number of years ago we we

792
01:02:55,359 --> 01:03:05,040
looked at the fee schedule and there was
some public comment concern about that

793
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:10,160
around like vendor costs at an event.
Um, and I felt it was appropriate. It

794
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:13,599
seemed reasonable the numbers
particularly,

795
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:19,599
you know, I was thinking about vendors
that are um, you know, selling something

796
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:26,000
and if they couldn't cover the cost that
I thought was fairly uh, nominal for the

797
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:28,799
event, then the problem was really that
they're not doing good business at the

798
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:33,680
event. And that's the problem with the
event, not our fees, right? Um, but I

799
01:03:31,839 --> 01:03:40,480
have been hearing that there are some
events that are not happening in our

800
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:44,240
downtown. Um, because of the fees, uh,
even some public comment about

801
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:48,000
nonprofits, nonprofit events, and I
certainly recognize that there is a

802
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:51,920
difference with nonprofits in terms of
what's being able to be be able to

803
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:56,799
afford because I work for a nonprofit
and [snorts] not having events where you

804
01:03:55,119 --> 01:04:01,200
generate revenue. You don't have any
revenue from a nonprofit event

805
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:05,359
generally. Um, It's just educational.
It's, you know, outreach, that sort of

806
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:14,400
thing. So, uh, it's all expense, no
revenue. Um, I'm wondering

807
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:20,160
how do our fee because events
and nonprofit events and stuff downtown

808
01:04:17,039 --> 01:04:26,559
are so important for the vitality of a
downtown um, and the vitality of a

809
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:30,720
community. And so, I think it is
important to get it right. Um, and so

810
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:35,200
I'm just wondering
out of concern that we are missing out

811
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:40,720
potentially of events downtown due to
fees, how do our fees compare to other

812
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:43,920
communities? Uh, have we done that? And
that may have been that discussion

813
01:04:42,319 --> 01:04:49,039
several years ago and I don't recall,
but um, how how do they compare to other

814
01:04:47,119 --> 01:04:52,880
communities in terms of our fees?
>> So, to answer your first question,

815
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:58,000
vending permits, uh, there's uh, two
fees for vending permits. one is a $100

816
01:04:55,599 --> 01:05:03,599
$100 for a year an annual permit and the
other one's a $25 permit for a three

817
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:07,119
consecutive day event. So, uh when we
had that discussion, you know, basically

818
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:14,240
we're just trying to cover the
management of those um permits and the

819
01:05:11,839 --> 01:05:18,720
reason being is an annual permit allows
somebody to pay it up front. However,

820
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:23,359
they need to call and request new
locations as the year goes on. So there

821
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:30,400
may be times uh they want to be part of
an event out at kids sports or um be

822
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:33,520
somewhere downtown. So we we do monitor
that make sure they're appropriate

823
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:37,440
locations and there's no other conflicts
and to have that conversation about you

824
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:42,400
also have to follow all parking
ordinances. The 3-day permit is for

825
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:46,880
vendors that want to go to a festival
like the artisan craftsman. Uh their

826
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:52,480
vendors all pay well not all but
majority that are not from here pay that

827
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:56,480
$25 permit. but it gives them um gives
them that opportunity to vend on public

828
01:05:54,480 --> 01:06:04,799
property. So, those are the two vending
permits. As far as park fees, um our

829
01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:10,480
park fees, I would say um are probably a
little more than average uh as far as

830
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:15,039
communities around us whether or in the
state. However, you also have to look at

831
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:18,799
our funding model. the um I think in the
past people have brought up uh other

832
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:25,280
communities including Whitefish who has
resort tax dollars that help fund their

833
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:30,400
department. Boseman also has um uh an
impact or not an impact tax but a um

834
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:34,720
parks maintenance district. Billings has
a park maintenance district. Missoula

835
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:40,079
also I think I already said Missoula but
they also have funding that comes in to

836
01:06:37,119 --> 01:06:45,760
help offset that. So our fees while not
directly comparable also offset um some

837
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:52,720
of the revenue that we are asked to
bring into the department. So adjusting

838
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:58,480
those rates also will have effect on um
our budget moving forward on how we

839
01:06:55,119 --> 01:07:05,599
manage um our requests
in 2025. We did bring the fees to

840
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:10,960
council and during that request um for
updating the fees. We what we did is we

841
01:07:09,119 --> 01:07:14,880
were looking to streamline the online
portal. Uh so you could do some of the

842
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:19,599
reservations online to kind of take some
of the management out of our staff, make

843
01:07:17,119 --> 01:07:24,079
it a little more appropriate. However,
it was talked about that when you get

844
01:07:22,079 --> 01:07:28,640
into the bigger groups, we also still
need to have conversations um about

845
01:07:26,559 --> 01:07:33,359
what's going on because sometimes those
do kick into other things, having

846
01:07:31,119 --> 01:07:37,839
insurance, having discussions about
inflatables in the park, having uh

847
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:41,200
conversations depending on the facility
and the number of people. Sometimes we

848
01:07:39,359 --> 01:07:45,760
have to have a conversation of how you
intend to people to attend it. Um

849
01:07:44,079 --> 01:07:49,760
Lawrence Park is a prime example.
there's not much parking down there and

850
01:07:47,599 --> 01:07:53,520
when you have a large event, it's still
open to the public and you may be using

851
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:59,119
a portion, but how do we make that use
go back and forth? A lot of times people

852
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:02,400
in that situation are obviously know uh
the difficulties and have a plan. We

853
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:08,559
just want to have it on paper to know
that they they're aware of it so that um

854
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:15,760
when their event happens that uh they
have a means to um let their their

855
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:20,159
attendees know. Um but most of our um
our fee schedule it's was adopted uh

856
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:26,400
well before I started with parks and
recreation and over the years it's two

857
01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:29,759
to three every two to three years
there's been a nominal increase due to

858
01:08:28,159 --> 01:08:36,000
inflation and that's how we've
approached it. Uh we're not um we're not

859
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:42,000
looking to uh recoup all the costs
associated to a rental. Um we don't uh

860
01:08:39,359 --> 01:08:46,239
charge like um Councilman Fischer says
we do not charge

861
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:51,600
um
uh our fees are just circled around the

862
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:57,440
reservation. Um we don't have a deposit
on these facilities. So sometimes we do

863
01:08:54,159 --> 01:09:00,640
have events that you know um there's an
impact to the park when you start

864
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:05,040
looking at hundreds of people coming to
the park whether it's the trash, the

865
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:09,120
bathrooms, the turf, the facility
they're in. So there's always an impact.

866
01:09:07,279 --> 01:09:14,000
It doesn't matter if they're nonprofit,
for-profit, making money, not making

867
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:19,040
money, the impact is still there. And so
that's what we're tr

868
01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:23,279
with our fees is is making sure that one
that they're fair across the board. not

869
01:09:21,359 --> 01:09:28,000
picking losers, winners and losers with
these fees, but actually addressing the

870
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:34,159
concerns of that event and making sure
that we we have the park or the ability

871
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:41,120
to put the park into 100% if we need to
if that event um as as we see the uses

872
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:46,719
of the park be affected by the number of
people attending those um events.

873
01:09:45,040 --> 01:09:52,640
So,
I appreciate that. And that just so I I

874
01:09:50,480 --> 01:09:56,800
don't know if I'm missing something or
the when we talk about the fee we were

875
01:09:55,360 --> 01:10:02,960
just talking about for like a parking
lot, I'm looking at like $150 maybe if

876
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:07,040
you don't include the traffic barricade,
you know, question, which would be a

877
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:12,800
much bigger event.
um

878
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:19,440
that that's you have a $100 event fee,
$50 review fee. Um and then if somebody

879
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:25,920
says we'll take care of the trash and
you're not closing any streets, it's

880
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:31,520
$150. That seems reasonable to me um and
doable for even a nonprofit.

881
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:39,120
Um, and then if it's kind of like a
vendor fee, it's

882
01:10:34,719 --> 01:10:45,360
$25 for the vendor potentially or $100
for the year, but you know, at most

883
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:49,920
you're not talking about more than about
$100 for for the vendor. Now, if you

884
01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:53,679
have an event with a bunch of vendors, I
understand if like the event organizer

885
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:58,560
is trying to cover the cost for all the
vendors and you have a lot of vendors,

886
01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:03,679
that can add up. But if the fee is only
$25 a day or whatever for the vendor,

887
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:08,880
that seems like a reasonable ask to ask
of your vendors. I don't Am I missing

888
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:13,360
some cost there
that is causing folks to not have events

889
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:18,320
in our downtown? I don't
>> understand. I I think I think what

890
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:22,800
you're you've got you're comparing two
different things here. Uh so the request

891
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:27,360
to in front of you tonight is is uh
public lots

892
01:11:24,159 --> 01:11:33,520
» which is different than parks and
facilities. So um I I think council has

893
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:37,440
the opportunity to look at you know
potentially renting these parking lots

894
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:41,600
out but there's no amenities to the
park. It's asphalt and concrete. There's

895
01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:46,800
not much to do. Yes, there's going to be
cleanup, potentially cleanup, um, which

896
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:51,360
is a lot different than turf and
bathrooms and, you know, the

897
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:55,199
infrastructure of a park. So, I think
when when you're looking at that, it

898
01:11:53,600 --> 01:11:59,920
seems reasonable. When you start looking
at our park reservation fees and you

899
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:05,280
look for uh a six-hour block for a
special event, you're adding insurance,

900
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:10,960
um, you're looking at, you know, closer,
depending if you're in city or out of

901
01:12:07,120 --> 01:12:15,760
city, you're looking closer to $500. But
again, our our pricing structure is

902
01:12:13,120 --> 01:12:20,320
based on the number of hours and the
number of participants and the day of

903
01:12:18,080 --> 01:12:25,440
the week because there when we started
the our fee process, what we learned is

904
01:12:23,679 --> 01:12:29,760
that, you know, there was a premium to
pay for the weekends. Some people uh

905
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:33,679
some people take advantage of that. For
us, it it seemed to make sense because

906
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:37,040
we were getting crowded on the weekends
and we wanted to disperse some

907
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:42,560
throughout the week. Um, but that was
done years ago. Um

908
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:48,640
and then on the weekends and then those
larger events there um that's when it

909
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:52,719
hits that special event in our uh review
process. So it's different than this

910
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:56,480
special event. It's the special event
here. So I think what you've heard from

911
01:12:55,199 --> 01:13:02,800
the public and I don't want to speak for
the public but I think that they've they

912
01:12:59,440 --> 01:13:07,600
feel like that the the fee is
uh more than they may uh pay in another

913
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:12,080
community. But the other the flip side
of it for us is we're not we don't have

914
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:16,640
the tax resort or the park maintenance
district or anything like that that

915
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:21,120
offsets the use in those parks. We're
actually applying it to the use of the

916
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:26,640
park. So when there's that heavy use,
they're paying to use the park versus

917
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:31,760
having a district that that or a resort
fee that pays back into it.

918
01:13:29,040 --> 01:13:37,199
So,
if I'm a nonprofit and I want to host an

919
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:41,679
event and and I apologize, I know we're
getting off, you know, the lot thing,

920
01:13:39,199 --> 01:13:47,840
but it's related to events and and stuff
with the fees. They're they're very um I

921
01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:53,760
think it's relevant. But um if I'm a
nonprofit and I'm wanting to organize an

922
01:13:50,719 --> 01:13:59,679
event at Depot Park and it's going to be
several hours on a Saturday, um I hope a

923
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:04,560
lot of people show up. I hope I get
hundreds of people show up, but I might

924
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:08,880
get 50, right? I have no idea. I don't
know how, you know, effective my

925
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:15,600
advertising is going to be and whatnot.
If I put down 50 and get a lower fee and

926
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:22,400
300 show up, um,
you know, and have a bigger impact,

927
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:27,920
do do we do we go back and say, "Hey,
you it wasn't 50, you know, you had a

928
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:32,080
bigger impact here, you owe us or what
happens in that scenario?"

929
01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:36,800
» No, because again, we're taking your
best guess. Usually, it's uh what your

930
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:40,640
scenario is a first time event. you're
you're hoping that a lot of people come

931
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:46,159
to your event. You want to get the word
out and and so you're you anticipate

932
01:14:44,239 --> 01:14:52,000
you're pretty sure at 50 people. So
that's the reservation. Um

933
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:57,600
it does happen um with newer events.
They'll be like, "Oo, um you know, we

934
01:14:54,640 --> 01:15:02,719
had way more people attend." Great,
lessons learned. Next year, just up your

935
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:06,480
count. Um, I think in all the years that
we've done it, we've had one person feel

936
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:10,000
bad enough they wrote a check to cover
it and we were like, "No, that's not

937
01:15:07,679 --> 01:15:16,400
necessary because we understand you
don't you can't validate like the number

938
01:15:13,440 --> 01:15:22,400
of people on a first year event." Uh, we
did that with the Great Bear Festival. I

939
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:26,480
mean, they they anticipated um a number,
surpassed it, which was great. And then

940
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:31,040
the next year we just went with a a
higher number, their best guess, which

941
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:36,960
actually just triggered it into the last
tier in the f uh in our matrix. Anyway,

942
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:41,440
um but again, it's you know, it's it's
something that you work through. We

943
01:15:38,719 --> 01:15:47,280
don't uh go back to the the group and
say, "Ah, you you did this, you know,

944
01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:53,360
you estimated low. How dare you?" We you
know, we understand that it's best guess

945
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:58,320
scenario for a new event.
So the these fees in general the

946
01:15:55,440 --> 01:16:04,000
question would be if the council would
support even a rental fee right now all

947
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:10,159
these fe fees do is not even pay for all
the staff time that go to one of these

948
01:16:06,159 --> 01:16:13,840
events. So a special event permit this
is essentially city staff the

949
01:16:12,239 --> 01:16:18,480
preparation of the application of all
that. It's just an application fee

950
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:22,239
associated with doing it. It could be
that right now a special event permit if

951
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:27,440
you're renting or using the rideway.
There's no rental fee for the rideway

952
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:32,080
per se, but um given it's a city
property like a park, the council would

953
01:16:29,679 --> 01:16:35,679
have the ability to actually rent it as
well. Or do you just want to cover the

954
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:40,320
cost of the fee in the application? And
that's kind of the question that we

955
01:16:37,199 --> 01:16:46,080
would have have here as well.
>> I think just to finish my thought on I

956
01:16:42,719 --> 01:16:51,679
to answer that question. Um, you know,
because I think about events in downtown

957
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:56,960
in terms of that vibrancy of our
downtown and stuff, and I think if you

958
01:16:53,760 --> 01:17:02,480
go to communities that really um do well
with this, they're having events where

959
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:06,800
it's kind of eclectic, you know, it's
somebody had a hairbrain idea and they

960
01:17:05,040 --> 01:17:13,040
decided throw a party and then it turned
into a thing, you know, and we don't

961
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:18,960
want to stifle that creativity and that
kind of maybe unorg organized at first

962
01:17:16,640 --> 01:17:25,360
um person who's just wants to throw a
party and stuff and I think you know the

963
01:17:22,239 --> 01:17:28,880
fees like this 150 bucks I think anybody
you know who has an idea and they want

964
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:33,040
to pursue it is going to be willing to
find that money and and put it for for a

965
01:17:31,360 --> 01:17:39,280
fee I think when we start talking about
500 bucks 700 bucks then that's more

966
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:44,719
stifling but it sounds like that's for
events that are really big that are you

967
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:50,719
already know you're going to have, you
know, a lot of people showing up and and

968
01:17:46,880 --> 01:17:55,199
it's more of a success. Um, so it would
I would think it'd be organizations that

969
01:17:53,040 --> 01:18:01,840
have the organizational capacity to
cover a fee like that. Um, and it's

970
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:06,320
event worth doing that you put it
toward. So I

971
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:13,280
sometimes I definitely think there
should be some fee, but uh for keeping

972
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:16,280
150 or so. Okay. Uh, Councilman
Waterman.

973
01:18:23,120 --> 01:18:30,480
Sorry about that. Um, thank you, your
honor. Sorry not to be in present. Um,

974
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:35,760
really just wanted to voice my support
for including the parking lots in this

975
01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:40,719
conversation. I know that or what was
originally proposed by

976
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:45,040
uh forward downtown in the chamber was
that because this conversation was about

977
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:48,239
the parking lot on third in Maine um
that we include that I'm glad that we

978
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:53,679
are expanding that to include other
parking lots and my observation I've

979
01:18:50,239 --> 01:19:00,080
been that there was parking lot at park
the stalls that are off of um the road

980
01:18:57,199 --> 01:19:05,760
next to that so support where we're
going with this the concern which I've

981
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:10,640
heard from downtown Association other
people has been that um when you have

982
01:19:08,080 --> 01:19:16,960
vendors in meet an event and I guess I'm
just asking a clarification for what

983
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:20,880
Chad is saying. So if an event has
vendors

984
01:19:18,560 --> 01:19:26,560
the individual vendors at that event
also then owe the $25 or the $100 fee.

985
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:30,800
Is that correct?
>> Correct.

986
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:34,640
So
that's that's where [snorts] I've heard

987
01:19:32,719 --> 01:19:38,960
concern again like if there was like a
Thursday fest and they brought in

988
01:19:36,159 --> 01:19:42,640
vendors was that compounding effect of
just bringing other people in but again

989
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:46,960
the fees seem reasonable but I'm not
sure if that's being communicated as

990
01:19:44,239 --> 01:19:56,080
well because
is so if a nonprofit tables at an event

991
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:56,080
like Thursday Fest are they vending

992
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:08,320
they are treated as a vendor.
>> Okay. So any other sub attendee to an

993
01:20:05,280 --> 01:20:12,880
event is then also charge that vendor
fee.

994
01:20:10,719 --> 01:20:18,560
So I think that that's sometimes right
here a concern because um an overriding

995
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:22,080
organization isn't able to organize
something they then have to get into

996
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:27,679
that the smaller events. I know that
that was one of the concerns that I've

997
01:20:24,239 --> 01:20:31,990
heard about the idea with the um the
Christmas mark, but again, maybe that's

998
01:20:29,440 --> 01:20:37,120
just a communication issue of what that
[snorts] becomes because again, if you

999
01:20:33,360 --> 01:20:44,159
had like 10 vendors or nonprofits,
you go from having a $150 fee to an

1000
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:49,040
additional $250.
So, um

1001
01:20:47,120 --> 01:20:55,360
but again, maybe that's a communication
issue that we need to make sure that

1002
01:20:51,840 --> 01:21:00,480
um events are aware of that concern, but
overall I really appreciate where we're

1003
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:05,800
going with the parking lot conversation.
>> Mr. Fischer,

1004
01:21:01,280 --> 01:21:05,800
» thank you. Um

1005
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:12,239
good deposits, good rules. Mark Hensley
is a friend of mine. He rented out his

1006
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:14,960
parking lot a couple few years ago. I
think that was my second year on

1007
01:21:13,440 --> 01:21:20,800
council.
And like what happened to me with my

1008
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:24,480
deal in Volunteer Park, a brand new
million dollar park. They came in and

1009
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:28,640
they put up tents and they staked
through his parking lot to where he had

1010
01:21:26,719 --> 01:21:32,400
to then resurface and then I think the
city got on him about the parking lot

1011
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:37,199
and having to do something too from his
words if I remember right four years

1012
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:41,679
ago. So it became quite a cost when you
don't get that on the per permit. Chad

1013
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:45,600
doesn't see it or city manager doesn't
see it and somebody oh just forgets

1014
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:51,040
they're putting up a tent and they stake
it down in and then he didn't have any

1015
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:55,040
repelling for water. It began uping the
parking lot. You can check it out with

1016
01:21:52,639 --> 01:21:59,199
Mark Enley yourself. And then I go back
to Volunteer Park with my scenario. And

1017
01:21:57,040 --> 01:22:03,600
here I'm really lobbying. I'm not trying
to shut this down. The businesses like

1018
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:07,760
it, downtown likes it, they're the one
paying the big bucks for taxes that it

1019
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:13,040
doesn't compete and the deposit is
adequate to cover anything. And in and

1020
01:22:11,280 --> 01:22:16,400
Lakeside, brand new irrigation, brand
new parking lot, brand new everything.

1021
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:22,000
It was supposed to be a church group
with 50, 75 people. I charged 125 or

1022
01:22:19,920 --> 01:22:25,840
whatever the heck it was. They didn't
they were supposed to use the pavilion.

1023
01:22:24,159 --> 01:22:29,920
They decided to put up tents because
more people showed up as you say, your

1024
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:34,239
honor. became a big thing because it was
we leave it open to the public and if

1025
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:38,159
people want to come check it out even
beyond their group. So how do you decide

1026
01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:43,040
costs on this stuff because people can
still utilize a public park. So all of a

1027
01:22:40,639 --> 01:22:47,520
sudden we have irrigation system messed
up and then they broke into the um

1028
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:52,320
irrigation box and tore out the wires
because the irrigation kicked on because

1029
01:22:49,199 --> 01:22:58,400
they stayed so late. So I end up with I
think it was a $4500

1030
01:22:55,040 --> 01:23:02,960
bill from this scenario trying to help a
group that can turn into so much more.

1031
01:23:00,719 --> 01:23:07,199
So there again I'm lobbying for a
substantial deposit and that insurance

1032
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:14,000
to cover those things that could go
wrong to again make the city whole. I

1033
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:17,840
understand even with the parade um there
was no traffic control put in place.

1034
01:23:16,000 --> 01:23:22,400
they didn't get it in the paperwork and
even though we had four or five staff

1035
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:29,120
members review it and their $25 that
they get, there was no traffic control.

1036
01:23:25,199 --> 01:23:33,440
Um, so the city, we had to pull staff
off of other duties with all this

1037
01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:37,679
construction and everything going on to
go in and and provide that because

1038
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:42,639
obviously it's our requirement. It's
safety. It's and [clears throat]

1039
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:47,760
nobody picked up that. the taxpayer, mom
and pop, grandma and grandpa, they're

1040
01:23:44,639 --> 01:23:53,199
paying for that on a fixed income. That
the the deposit, no matter how well

1041
01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:57,280
intended, has to be high. And I I get
what people are saying. I I' I've read

1042
01:23:55,120 --> 01:24:04,239
your letters and wanting certain groups
to have nothing. And I get nonprofits,

1043
01:23:59,440 --> 01:24:10,120
but big insurance and big deposits to
cover what you would never believe would

1044
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:10,120
go wrong that can

1045
01:24:12,320 --> 01:24:21,440
So, u I'm gonna unfortunately disagree
with my ward mate here a little bit. Um

1046
01:24:18,639 --> 01:24:25,920
I I I think that you know and this is a
great question for the downtown business

1047
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:31,360
uh you know businesses to answer, but I
think that um having a lot of people

1048
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:35,520
come down there for an event is
something that they would look forward

1049
01:24:32,400 --> 01:24:41,520
to uh even if it's a direct competitor
because hey, I'm down there. I maybe I

1050
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:45,840
see this shop and I'm going to come back
later and hit that hit up that shop or

1051
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:48,960
I'm here for the ice cream, but I see
that there's an ice cream place across

1052
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:52,560
the street I've never tried. So, I'm
going to come back later and try that

1053
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:57,920
ice cream place. So, I I think they want
that that kind of healthy, you know, uh

1054
01:24:55,360 --> 01:25:03,199
people visible down there. And, you
know, I'll ask you what what is what

1055
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:08,320
makes a park successful?
It's really only one thing. if it's

1056
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:11,120
used. Okay, you have the most beautiful
park out there that you paid a lot of

1057
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:15,920
money for, but no, if nobody ever uses
it, it's useless. Um I I bring that back

1058
01:25:14,639 --> 01:25:20,560
to the parking lots. What makes a
successful parking lot, a city-owned

1059
01:25:17,760 --> 01:25:26,159
parking lot if if it's used, right? Um
this is a great use of the parking lots

1060
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:34,080
on the weekend. Um, I think that for any
any event that has the

1061
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:37,280
chance of making uh big mistakes and
having big costs associated with it,

1062
01:25:35,679 --> 01:25:42,480
they have to get insurance anyway to to
use that. That insurance should cover

1063
01:25:39,199 --> 01:25:46,320
that, right? And Jed's shaking his head.
Maybe I don't know. I I'm not a park

1064
01:25:44,159 --> 01:25:51,280
specialist, but uh I would think that's
one of the reasons you get insurance for

1065
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:55,920
is to cover things like that. Um,
so I'm not a big fan of raising the

1066
01:25:52,960 --> 01:26:01,280
fees. Um, I I know that an event,
especially a big event that happens, we

1067
01:25:58,719 --> 01:26:07,760
actually it costs more for us to have
them hold that event than it than the

1068
01:26:03,679 --> 01:26:14,000
event um pays in fees. So, we're running
at a loss. But once again, if you have a

1069
01:26:10,639 --> 01:26:19,760
very a successful park, successful uh
events at uh uh parking lots downtown,

1070
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:26,000
um it'll pay for itself in the economy,
right? So anyway, um that that's just my

1071
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:29,520
two cents. I I wanted to I know we're
kind of I don't [clears throat] think

1072
01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:34,400
you expected this to take as long as
it's taking. Uh but I'm fully in favor

1073
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:39,440
of incorporating parking lots into into
this plan.

1074
01:26:37,040 --> 01:26:45,600
Blank,
>> I'm going to be with my council member,

1075
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:50,560
uh, Mr. Fischer on this. It cost $100
just to run a a gym at the Calispel

1076
01:26:48,639 --> 01:26:54,800
School District for for for volleyball
practice. So, I just want in terms of

1077
01:26:52,480 --> 01:26:59,760
when we're thinking about comparing the
use of areas and we could also look at

1078
01:26:57,360 --> 01:27:04,080
what costs are in the city itself and
also coming from W 2, there's so many

1079
01:27:02,400 --> 01:27:08,400
fixed incomes and what I keep hearing
from them is I can't make it. I can't

1080
01:27:05,920 --> 01:27:14,000
fix my roof. I can't do this. So, I'm
I'm really conscious of

1081
01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:17,280
the statement that the businesses will
make economic development. Yeah, but the

1082
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:22,239
the fixed income folks are still going
to have to pay their taxes. So, I I

1083
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:28,159
think for me it's a balance. I support
using the parking lots. That makes good

1084
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:31,920
sense to me. I also support because I I
have also been in situations as Mr.

1085
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:34,560
Fischer has people need to go to the
bathroom. Where are they going to go to

1086
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:38,320
the bathroom if there are no bathrooms?
They're going to go everywhere they can.

1087
01:27:36,719 --> 01:27:42,560
People always generate trash whether
they think they will or not. And the

1088
01:27:40,639 --> 01:27:45,760
time of your staff, you're already short
staffed. You're already And then the

1089
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:50,080
moment we have to ask for more, that's
time and a half. That's a lot more

1090
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:55,199
money. And again, it comes back to who
manages that, the taxpayer does. And we

1091
01:27:52,639 --> 01:27:59,120
have a prepundonderance of seniors
living in this community. So I think

1092
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:05,440
particularly in my word, so I just want
to make sure I'm fiscally responsible to

1093
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:10,639
those folks. Um, and so I would say you
need a deposit to cover what could

1094
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:17,280
happen and to cover the city.
And I would argue that that's consistent

1095
01:28:14,719 --> 01:28:21,159
with a lot of places in this town. We
just don't know about it.

1096
01:28:26,639 --> 01:28:32,880
» Yeah. Um,
a lot of good points brought up. I I

1097
01:28:30,960 --> 01:28:37,600
certainly in favor of incorporating the
city lots into the the permitting

1098
01:28:35,120 --> 01:28:42,239
process. I
I don't like the idea of the city just

1099
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:47,520
eating all the costs of damages that are
inflicted. I I'd like to see the city

1100
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:51,840
made whole if there is egregious
damages, whether that's through

1101
01:28:48,719 --> 01:28:57,760
insurance or or however that's done. But
I I don't want to see us excluding

1102
01:28:55,280 --> 01:29:01,920
people or having unreasonably high uh
deposits as well too.

1103
01:28:59,679 --> 01:29:06,880
How big a problem is this? Have we had a
lot of damages like

1104
01:29:04,639 --> 01:29:11,199
outright damage as a you know irrigation
systems as opposed to just the

1105
01:29:09,199 --> 01:29:14,960
consequences of a hundred people you
know trampling down the the earth or

1106
01:29:13,440 --> 01:29:19,760
normal wear and tear like that?
>> We've had several incidences where we've

1107
01:29:17,679 --> 01:29:23,840
had so much damage that it's in the
thousands of dollars like Councilman

1108
01:29:21,199 --> 01:29:27,920
Fischer said. Um mostly it's irrigation
damage. Um, we've had issues where

1109
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:32,639
people drove stakes through our
irrigation main lines, then it bubbles

1110
01:29:30,080 --> 01:29:36,000
that bubbles water out. Then all of a
sudden it's flooded and you got a

1111
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:40,239
concentration of people. So then it
becomes this quagmire of stuff and then

1112
01:29:38,239 --> 01:29:45,040
they try to fix it and then you have to
undo all that on Monday trying to figure

1113
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:49,440
out how to go to the next step. Um, we
no longer allow tent uh tents to be

1114
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:54,400
staked in our parks because of it. We we
used to try to go out and make a good

1115
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:58,159
faith effort of locating lines but it's
very difficult and it's timeconuming so

1116
01:29:56,480 --> 01:30:02,719
instead we always tell them they have to
bring some kind of above ground ballast

1117
01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:06,719
with them uh seems to offset but it does
create another issue where's that

1118
01:30:04,159 --> 01:30:11,199
ballast come from I think most of the
vendors like artisan craftsman have

1119
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:17,679
figured it out um but again there are
some big events that do want bigger

1120
01:30:13,440 --> 01:30:21,120
tents uh and the vendors that that uh
rent tents now know that if they're in a

1121
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:24,560
city park, they do have to have some
kind of other ballast system.

1122
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:28,560
» So, have we been able to use insurance
to re to recover any of those costs?

1123
01:30:26,320 --> 01:30:33,280
Have we filed insurance claims?
>> We have not filed insurance claims?

1124
01:30:30,800 --> 01:30:35,840
» No.
>> Okay.

1125
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:41,199
» There's a lot of city staff time that
even goes into then filing a claim. So,

1126
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:44,560
you're balancing that. I was recently
Councilman Fiser mentioned it doesn't

1127
01:30:43,199 --> 01:30:48,159
always have to be damage. It can just be
staff time. You know, essentially the

1128
01:30:46,639 --> 01:30:52,480
city of Calisville did all the traffic
control for the fourth of or sorry, for

1129
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:58,000
the fair parade. You know, that was
missed during it. The, you know, the

1130
01:30:55,840 --> 01:31:02,480
individual had lined up traffic control
for it come the morning. It didn't show

1131
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:07,840
up, but the events happening, so we had
to do it. That's at least six public

1132
01:31:05,120 --> 01:31:11,679
works staff for four or five hours for
that morning to take it up and then take

1133
01:31:09,679 --> 01:31:16,320
it down as well. So, that that was born
by the city.

1134
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:21,280
And what job would they remiss on doing
that day?

1135
01:31:19,199 --> 01:31:26,280
» Public works duties, street maintenance,
etc. for for the morning. For sure. So,

1136
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:37,120
» Oh, hi, Miss Gabriel.
>> Thank you, your honor. Uh, sorry, I had

1137
01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:44,000
to jump in late. I had a a work thing
run late. Um, I am for incorporating

1138
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:50,400
parking lots into that that structure. I
think that's a a great use um on the

1139
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:55,199
weekends. I do think it'd be too hard to
figure it out during the week um as we

1140
01:31:53,120 --> 01:32:00,639
would be displacing
some of the the folks who have permits

1141
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:07,760
in those those lots. So, I like that
idea. Um, also wanted to add some

1142
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:16,000
insight as I've been a nonprofit um,
director for a decade of a nonprofit

1143
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:21,920
that had um, an event downtown and with
that came a parade and a whole bunch of

1144
01:32:19,199 --> 01:32:31,120
folks who wanted to, you know, show off
their their cars and um, part of our

1145
01:32:26,719 --> 01:32:36,639
nonprofit partnered with KPD. So, we had
the advantage of working with KPD and

1146
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:41,199
knowing all that went into that. So, um
I want to make sure everybody

1147
01:32:38,000 --> 01:32:45,920
understands how much was involved for
the police department on that. And then

1148
01:32:43,440 --> 01:32:51,040
we generated a ton of trash because we
had food vendors and we always tried to

1149
01:32:49,040 --> 01:32:56,880
pick our trash up, but I'm sure we
missed some. And I've been a part of

1150
01:32:53,360 --> 01:33:01,920
another event um in Depot Park that I
know Mr. Waterman's been a part of, too.

1151
01:32:59,199 --> 01:33:06,800
And I think that group has been very
very good about trying to make sure that

1152
01:33:04,239 --> 01:33:12,159
we we don't leave a a huge footprint
behind. But I also know that there have

1153
01:33:10,000 --> 01:33:19,280
been groups that have driven on the lawn
and you know probably broken Chad's

1154
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:24,400
irrigation system and it's stuff people
don't think about when there's not a

1155
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:30,000
city person there to be policing it the
whole time. So, I think my whole point

1156
01:33:27,520 --> 01:33:34,960
in all that is I do think that a
significant deposit is necessary. I

1157
01:33:33,199 --> 01:33:39,760
don't think the city should ever have to
be the one that is having to fix all

1158
01:33:38,000 --> 01:33:44,880
those things.
And the other thing I wanted to mention

1159
01:33:42,639 --> 01:33:50,320
um particularly to something the mayor
was saying earlier,

1160
01:33:47,120 --> 01:33:56,719
we were doing our event as a fundraiser.
Rotary does their great bear fest as a

1161
01:33:53,520 --> 01:34:04,239
fundraiser. So those nonprofits are
generating revenue. Um so while I I

1162
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:09,120
sympathized with the woman who subject
or sent in the public comment about not

1163
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:12,719
having you know the funds to pay for
something

1164
01:34:10,719 --> 01:34:17,199
um in those events where they're
fundraisers, perhaps that needs to be a

1165
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:22,159
different fee structure if we want to
have that conversation later on. But

1166
01:34:20,159 --> 01:34:28,440
anyway, I just wanted to jump in and
state that. and um appreciate the great

1167
01:34:25,440 --> 01:34:28,440
discussion.

1168
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:35,679
» Mr. Leidge,
>> thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh

1169
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:40,639
the one thing I think I've been
consistent about while I've been up here

1170
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:49,120
is that I am a huge advocate for the
vibrancy of downtown. Um and downtown is

1171
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:54,880
not always very vibrant. Um, so taking
any opportunity in order to increase

1172
01:34:51,840 --> 01:35:00,000
foot traffic uh into our downtown, our
downtown businesses, um, whatever that

1173
01:34:57,199 --> 01:35:05,120
may be, I'm all for it. And I think we
need to create as many incentives as we

1174
01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:08,080
can in order to facilitate that. Um, so
very specifically, I'm going to be

1175
01:35:06,480 --> 01:35:15,920
talking about the downtown parking lots,
which is really the item that's on topic

1176
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:22,159
right now. Um, so I would propose it to
be free. I would wave the vendor

1177
01:35:17,760 --> 01:35:27,520
permits. Um, and I would also uh include
uh a pretty significant deposit. Um, I

1178
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:31,280
think that those are uh I think that's a
a relatively good compromise. I don't

1179
01:35:29,760 --> 01:35:34,320
entirely know what kind of damage you
can do in one of our parking lots

1180
01:35:32,639 --> 01:35:38,960
downtown. In fact, some of the parking
lots need a little bit of damage to look

1181
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:43,120
better. Um, but regardless, um, if
that's an issue, uh, that's great. The

1182
01:35:41,120 --> 01:35:47,199
organizer, if they need portaotties,
they should be, uh, facilitating those.

1183
01:35:45,679 --> 01:35:51,920
um if they need other things and they
build up to the event, those things can

1184
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:54,960
be worked out in that process. But I in
my estimation, as much as we can

1185
01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:59,840
incentivize,
organizations,

1186
01:35:57,120 --> 01:36:06,320
businesses, homemade vendors to not be
up at FBC, all due respect to the

1187
01:36:02,639 --> 01:36:10,000
farmers market, um I want to see,
>> right, but you know, Frosty the Brew

1188
01:36:08,480 --> 01:36:14,239
Fest, for example, Valley Bank doesn't
charge for their lot, right? Um uh but

1189
01:36:12,639 --> 01:36:19,120
you know they they the organizers
facilitate all of that uh all of the

1190
01:36:16,480 --> 01:36:23,199
logistics for that. So anyway, my point
is let's utilize our downtown and our

1191
01:36:21,600 --> 01:36:27,920
open spaces on the weekends in
particular uh for events to draw more

1192
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:34,400
people.
>> There's a question on that. If we had an

1193
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:41,520
event that was larger utilizing more
than one parking lot, but it's one

1194
01:36:36,800 --> 01:36:46,320
event, would it be hundred $100 plus $50
review for the event or would it be $150

1195
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:51,520
per parking lot?
>> I would read it as an event.

1196
01:36:50,080 --> 01:36:55,760
» And just to be clear, when we're talking
about the $100 for the special event

1197
01:36:53,679 --> 01:37:02,040
fee, it says includes traffic control
plan review fee. So, is it $100 or $150?

1198
01:37:05,040 --> 01:37:13,800
And another way, when does the traffic
control plan review fee attach outside

1199
01:37:09,920 --> 01:37:13,800
of the special event fee?

1200
01:37:16,719 --> 01:37:24,560
I think you have two different fees
there. A parade uh traffic control is a

1201
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:30,239
lot different than a traffic control
plan for downtown, I think. And and I

1202
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:35,119
would defer to Susie on that one.
>> Yeah. The first one would be parade. And

1203
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:38,960
I I I believe this is how it's been
implemented. So like Frosty the Brew

1204
01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:43,760
Fest not being a parade, it would be the
$50 whereas the parade

1205
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:48,800
special event would be the hundred.
That's how I believe we've been doing

1206
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:52,800
it. Um is that right?
>> It's the city attorney's office that

1207
01:37:50,239 --> 01:37:56,880
manages it, but um I believe it'd be
actually the other way around the if it

1208
01:37:54,639 --> 01:38:04,040
needs a traffic control
plan review, then it would be an

1209
01:37:59,199 --> 01:38:04,040
additional fee. Um,

1210
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:13,520
» but I think
>> yeah, the $100 includes both, but

1211
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:17,920
» for an event that's not likely to cause,
you know, not not a big traffic related

1212
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:21,440
» event would be.
>> So, again, going back to my

1213
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:27,040
hypothetical, the makers
event,

1214
01:38:23,199 --> 01:38:32,199
it would be a $100
or $150.

1215
01:38:29,199 --> 01:38:32,199
» 100.

1216
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:40,719
» It would be a hundred dollars the way I
read it because it's a special event and

1217
01:38:38,719 --> 01:38:43,840
not a you're as long as you don't have
any traffic control like you're not

1218
01:38:42,080 --> 01:38:47,119
blocking off a roadway.
>> Yeah,

1219
01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:51,040
» I think that's when you
that [snorts]

1220
01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:54,800
other $50 would be. But again, I would
see it as a special event fee as as

1221
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:56,960
being $100 according to the way it's
written out.

1222
01:38:55,520 --> 01:39:01,960
» That's how I read it, too. I just wanted
to make sure we're all on the same page.

1223
01:39:03,119 --> 01:39:10,560
» I'm I'm just going to try to get us on
track. Hopefully, um we I I don't think

1224
01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:16,400
we were here to discuss a fee schedule
for the events. Um, I we had about five

1225
01:39:14,480 --> 01:39:20,800
minutes of comments that I think
everybody that's here on council tonight

1226
01:39:19,040 --> 01:39:25,679
was supportive of adding the parking
lots to the event list for the weekends.

1227
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:30,239
Um, that do we want to continue
discussion on fees or do we want to have

1228
01:39:27,679 --> 01:39:34,800
a whole separate, you know, have have
Chad do some research recommendations

1229
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:37,800
and then have a work session on that
specifically?

1230
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:44,800
I'm I'm not in favor if we don't have a
fee structure and in place myself.

1231
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:49,520
» Yeah. What what I'm hearing from council
is there's support for the city owned

1232
01:39:46,639 --> 01:39:56,800
lots and using them for alternative
purposes on weekends um with an

1233
01:39:53,600 --> 01:40:02,560
increased security deposit and certainly
the fee schedule. We likely would not

1234
01:39:59,520 --> 01:40:07,760
propose changing as it is and council at
the time um we were to propose any

1235
01:40:05,199 --> 01:40:12,320
resolution could certainly look at
making alternatives. But I do at least

1236
01:40:09,280 --> 01:40:17,600
hear support for at least an alternative
look at the deposit that would be

1237
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:24,760
associated with an event without
touching the fees per se of of what we

1238
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:24,760
would charge to do it.

1239
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:36,320
So just question on the
parking lots. So weekends. Yes. Um

1240
01:40:34,239 --> 01:40:43,280
evening. So
generally the parking is used weekdays

1241
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:47,760
kind of the work day. Does it make sense
after 6 pm? I'm just thinking of say

1242
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:52,400
there's a business adjacent to the
parking lot. They want to celebrate

1243
01:40:49,119 --> 01:40:57,280
their 25th year anniversary opening. and
they hire a band, uh, invite, you know,

1244
01:40:55,360 --> 01:41:02,400
the public to come celebrate with them
and it's going to be a Wednesday night

1245
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:08,800
after, you know, at 6:30 for two hours,
um, that they could do in our Would that

1246
01:41:05,360 --> 01:41:12,719
be disruptive to I I don't disgree. It
certainly adds some complexity to it. I

1247
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:18,080
think that's what's even made some of
the other events more challenging like

1248
01:41:14,639 --> 01:41:21,280
Great Bar and such is because they have
even though the event was Saturday

1249
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:24,239
Sunday, they wanted to set up Friday to
be right ready for Saturday. So then

1250
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:31,840
they're actually having to rent for
longer. So that has created so it it

1251
01:41:27,440 --> 01:41:35,280
likely depends on the timing. Um because
even if it's just Saturday, they're more

1252
01:41:33,679 --> 01:41:39,199
than likely going to want to try and set
up on Friday. But if they're going to

1253
01:41:37,520 --> 01:41:44,159
try and be active Friday, they're going
to want to be setting up pretty early on

1254
01:41:41,520 --> 01:41:47,600
Friday, which would likely disrupt some
parking. So, I it probably would depend

1255
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:51,280
on the type the type of event.
>> I mean, I just don't want to be too

1256
01:41:49,040 --> 01:41:56,400
strict on it because I see plenty of
people that would want to do it, you

1257
01:41:53,600 --> 01:42:01,920
know, I see scenarios where an evening
on a weekday and again, if as long as

1258
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:06,000
those parking lots are largely empty by
time, you know, everybody's off work and

1259
01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:10,320
going home, I don't see a problem with
it. I'd, you know, leave it to staff

1260
01:42:08,320 --> 01:42:16,080
kind of administrative review, but I'd
leave it open to being able to do it

1261
01:42:12,639 --> 01:42:19,920
after 6 PM on a weekday.
>> True. But remember, we then have to make

1262
01:42:18,239 --> 01:42:24,400
sure we're notifying people in that
parking lot well before that. So, a lot

1263
01:42:22,639 --> 01:42:28,080
of staff time goes into that to make
sure they're out of the lot. And then we

1264
01:42:26,239 --> 01:42:32,960
would need parking enforcement in order
to go facilitate someone if they haven't

1265
01:42:30,159 --> 01:42:37,520
moved. So, like I said, it's possible,
but there is and and I understand the

1266
01:42:35,840 --> 01:42:42,000
idea of being able to do Friday nights
and most [clears throat] of the time,

1267
01:42:39,920 --> 01:42:47,280
Friday at six o'clock, the parking lot's
empty, but in order to start something

1268
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:50,400
early on a Friday, it does start a lot
earlier than that.

1269
01:42:48,480 --> 01:42:53,119
» Yeah. And we just that wouldn't be that
wouldn't be permitted. I mean, if it's

1270
01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:58,560
if they want to get in there before
6:30, they can't do it, you know. Um,

1271
01:42:55,840 --> 01:43:04,719
but and if we have to add a fee that for
weekday for kind of the the parking lot,

1272
01:43:02,080 --> 01:43:10,800
you know, noticing uh and parking
enforcement, I think that'd be fine. You

1273
01:43:08,159 --> 01:43:17,360
know, whatever that fee would be to add
to it, but I just think allow as many

1274
01:43:13,679 --> 01:43:20,960
options as possible for events. Would it
make sense to try for a set amount of

1275
01:43:19,520 --> 01:43:24,480
time to do weekends, get ourselves
figured out, sorted out first before we

1276
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:29,280
take it all on one [clears throat] step
at a time?

1277
01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:34,320
We haven't done this before, so it seems
to me to make sense. We don't have a

1278
01:43:31,280 --> 01:43:38,000
clear structure. And I can think of if
I'm paying on a week night for a permit

1279
01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:41,280
and and there's trash in my parking
space and the next morning because I

1280
01:43:39,280 --> 01:43:45,119
can't get in because you didn't clean it
up. I mean, I just think there's there

1281
01:43:42,480 --> 01:43:48,719
are complications there that we're we we
will run into that it would be helpful

1282
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:53,440
to try the weekends, get that sorted
out, figure it out, and then see what

1283
01:43:50,639 --> 01:43:57,199
what's next.
>> I'm good with that. I mean, we're not

1284
01:43:55,199 --> 01:44:01,199
doing it now. We'll see if it works.
>> If it uh if it doesn't work, I'm sure

1285
01:43:59,440 --> 01:44:04,719
that we'll hear from these good folks
about why it's not working and what

1286
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:09,360
would work better for downtown
businesses. Um, and we can uh revise

1287
01:44:07,199 --> 01:44:15,800
that, but might as well start with
complete prohibition to uh to to trying

1288
01:44:12,560 --> 01:44:15,800
something new.

1289
01:44:16,239 --> 01:44:22,960
» We can move on.
>> Oh, councelor Gabrielle,

1290
01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:27,600
» I would agree with that as well. I think
that's an excellent idea to try it on

1291
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:33,600
the weekend and and see how it goes and
then look at week nights after that.

1292
01:44:31,679 --> 01:44:38,560
» Okay.
uh residential block parties.

1293
01:44:36,800 --> 01:44:42,480
» Yeah. So, this is also something that's
brought up. So, this would not apply in

1294
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:46,800
commercial zones and only in residential
zones and it would apply to residential

1295
01:44:44,639 --> 01:44:51,840
neighborhoods. The ability for a block
face um dependent on, you know, a number

1296
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:57,440
of administrative rules that the council
could consider um things like the time,

1297
01:44:55,040 --> 01:45:01,600
which could, you know, be say 10:00 a.m.
to 10:00 p.m., no alcohol, all these

1298
01:44:59,679 --> 01:45:05,360
types of things. But really, it's just
um an idea that some communities do do

1299
01:45:03,679 --> 01:45:09,920
across the nation that would allow them
to actually close down their street in

1300
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:15,600
front of their house um in order to
facilitate some sort of block party. Um

1301
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:19,280
you know, I I have there has been
requests at the city in the past and

1302
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:23,440
block parties do happen on the regular,
but you know, in general, the city is ne

1303
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:26,960
the city street has never closed down.
Like I said, a number of rules that city

1304
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:31,199
staff would likely support to do
something like this would be a local

1305
01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:35,600
street only, not a a major arterial or a
collector street. Um, and also, you

1306
01:45:33,679 --> 01:45:41,760
know, provisions for a majority of the
block base to um be willing to sign on

1307
01:45:39,360 --> 01:45:46,080
to it. And then just some limited
traffic control that would be associated

1308
01:45:43,600 --> 01:45:49,920
with it, insurance requirements, etc. So
just right now don't provide for

1309
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:55,800
provisions of of this and just certainly
just looking for whether or not it's

1310
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:55,800
something that the city should consider.

1311
01:45:56,159 --> 01:46:01,840
» Yes,
>> I like the party.

1312
01:46:00,639 --> 01:46:07,199
» I've been to many of these. They're
wonderful.

1313
01:46:04,400 --> 01:46:12,159
» I'm curious on some of your some of the
uh the provisions you would have in

1314
01:46:09,440 --> 01:46:16,800
terms of the cost and you said kind of
consent within the community. Are you

1315
01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:20,560
anticipating people like going door todo
to sign a petition in order to close

1316
01:46:18,960 --> 01:46:24,239
down their street?
>> Yeah, that'd be the idea. You know,

1317
01:46:22,400 --> 01:46:28,639
whether it's
100% of the block base or 80% of the

1318
01:46:26,639 --> 01:46:32,719
block face, something like that, that um
they have at least uh probably a super

1319
01:46:30,719 --> 01:46:37,040
majority of the council or the city
block faces kind of consent that they

1320
01:46:34,719 --> 01:46:40,000
would like to do that. Um somebody's
going to have to lead the charge on that

1321
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:43,679
block face, get the insurance and
everything that would go along with

1322
01:46:41,199 --> 01:46:47,119
that. But um there are a number of
examples out there that that we could

1323
01:46:45,440 --> 01:46:53,639
look at, but that that would be kind of
the general idea.

1324
01:46:50,320 --> 01:46:53,639
» Mr. Wing,

1325
01:46:55,119 --> 01:47:04,560
» thank you. Um I am also supportive of
this. I've heard the idea. I've also I

1326
01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:08,560
mean I've heard the request from um
neighbors and from people before of

1327
01:47:06,480 --> 01:47:14,800
whether is something that's possible.
found out from the city hall that it is

1328
01:47:10,639 --> 01:47:18,719
not um supportive of it. Uh mainly that
it is just good for neighbors to be able

1329
01:47:16,400 --> 01:47:23,440
to get to know neighbors. Um there's
specific requests where I could see it

1330
01:47:20,320 --> 01:47:27,199
being applicable to um maybe the
Halloween parade or some of the

1331
01:47:25,679 --> 01:47:30,719
Halloween activities that are over on
the east side or other neighbors who

1332
01:47:29,280 --> 01:47:35,679
really want to have something that they
are wanting to have a block party. again

1333
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:40,560
supportive of the restrictions that I
think um the staff is looking at uh

1334
01:47:38,080 --> 01:47:45,440
which would be that it's only for
neighbors that there's no public

1335
01:47:43,199 --> 01:47:50,239
consumption of alcohol that it couldn't
be used for like a fundraiser or by a

1336
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:56,400
private business um and that again you
would have to have some sort of majority

1337
01:47:52,400 --> 01:48:00,400
of neighbors signing up for this but in
general I also think that it's really

1338
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:04,159
good for mental health and just sort of
the idea that we should all get out and

1339
01:48:02,960 --> 01:48:07,440
get to know our neighbors a little bit
better. And this is an opportunity of

1340
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:12,320
how you could have those type of
celebrations. And it's um I think good

1341
01:48:09,840 --> 01:48:17,760
community building, but also just very
supportive of the idea because I can see

1342
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:22,000
specific times where neighbors have
requested this or thought about being

1343
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:25,639
able to do that, but then found out they
couldn't do that in Callisville.

1344
01:48:26,320 --> 01:48:34,960
Mr.
>> D. Thanks. Um Mr. manager. What is the

1345
01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:39,920
what what is the percentage required to
implement an SID of the neighbors in

1346
01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:43,360
that area?
>> This is 51%.

1347
01:48:41,679 --> 01:48:46,960
» 51. That's that low.
>> That is crazy. Okay. Well, I guess we

1348
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:51,040
can't really do that. 51% of a
neighborhood that says yes and then 49%

1349
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:55,920
said no. That's probably not a good idea
to have a block party.

1350
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:59,920
» I'd support that. [laughter]
>> I was gonna say that I majority.

1351
01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:04,159
» I mean, I was thinking about the SID. I
mean, that's perfect. That's when people

1352
01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:07,760
consent to be taxed, right? Uh I can't
believe 49% of the people can say no and

1353
01:49:06,239 --> 01:49:12,639
and it's still they still get taxed.
It's crazy. Um

1354
01:49:10,320 --> 01:49:17,840
and and I I I can't I'm stuck on this.
Okay. Why do we require insurance if it

1355
01:49:15,760 --> 01:49:22,320
doesn't cover property damage? Does it
only cover personal injury? I mean, why

1356
01:49:20,159 --> 01:49:29,199
are we not recouping this money from
damages at events from the insurance

1357
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:34,560
that we require them to get it? It's
sounds ludicrous to me. I mean, why why

1358
01:49:32,159 --> 01:49:38,320
do we require it if if it doesn't do us
any good? I mean, is it only for

1359
01:49:36,239 --> 01:49:44,239
personal injury?
>> It's liability insurance.

1360
01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:50,560
» It's not property damage insurance.
But, I mean, trust me, I mean, I don't

1361
01:49:47,600 --> 01:49:54,719
know how many instances we've had, but I
mean, in general, like I said, these

1362
01:49:52,080 --> 01:49:58,239
events, the city's been pretty open. We
understand the community need whether

1363
01:49:56,320 --> 01:50:03,119
it's the parade and all that but you
know as the city grows you know we

1364
01:50:01,440 --> 01:50:06,639
haven't been adding a lot of staff these
types of events do you know take up a

1365
01:50:05,199 --> 01:50:10,560
lot of city time they take up a lot of
city resources to the extent that they

1366
01:50:08,960 --> 01:50:15,600
absolutely should in these community
events but um that's why I think the

1367
01:50:13,679 --> 01:50:18,960
security deposit or some sort of deposit
is probably the easiest most efficient

1368
01:50:17,199 --> 01:50:24,400
way to make sure that if damage occurs
we can kind of have the right tools in

1369
01:50:21,520 --> 01:50:29,040
place because acting on insurance is
also not a an easy exercise. It doesn't

1370
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:32,320
involve a lot of staff time.
>> Well, we got an additional problem then

1371
01:50:30,480 --> 01:50:37,119
with block parties because we're talking
about private property now, right?

1372
01:50:34,960 --> 01:50:43,199
» No, just city right away.
>> Okay. But

1373
01:50:40,960 --> 01:50:46,080
all right. Okay. Whatever. Uh I mean the
the the private property is right there.

1374
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:50,800
If you think that people are only going
to be on the street period, I think I

1375
01:50:48,480 --> 01:50:54,560
think we're being we're dreaming a
little bit. But the the insurance would

1376
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:59,199
be for anything that happens within the
city right away. Whatever neighbors want

1377
01:50:57,360 --> 01:51:03,520
between themselves, then they may need
to have a separate agreement with that.

1378
01:51:02,080 --> 01:51:06,400
But as far as what the city is going to
require be for what happens within the

1379
01:51:05,199 --> 01:51:11,360
city right away.
>> I I did get some public comment on this

1380
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:15,600
outside of what you guys saw just as a
disclosure. Uh somebody asked me what

1381
01:51:14,239 --> 01:51:21,040
percentage of the neighbors have to
agree to a block party. I think that is

1382
01:51:17,679 --> 01:51:24,639
probably a critical piece of this. Um I
mean, I don't really care what that

1383
01:51:22,400 --> 01:51:29,760
number is as long as we all agree on it.
Um,

1384
01:51:27,280 --> 01:51:35,760
it I don't think 51% is good enough,
though. I really don't.

1385
01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:40,480
» Miss Gro,
>> thank you, your honor.

1386
01:51:37,199 --> 01:51:47,040
» Um, I love this idea. I was born in the
60s, grew up in the 70s, and I grew up

1387
01:51:43,599 --> 01:51:54,480
on a street that was one block long. And
one night a year, we would shut that

1388
01:51:49,440 --> 01:51:59,119
street down and have a a picnic um for
all the neighbors. And we had a

1389
01:51:56,880 --> 01:52:03,440
culde-sac, so it was a little bit easier
where we didn't have to, you know, have

1390
01:52:01,599 --> 01:52:10,719
a lot of people bleeding out onto the
main street. But um it did a ton um I

1391
01:52:07,679 --> 01:52:17,040
think for getting to know neighbors and
goodwill all the things. And then when I

1392
01:52:14,239 --> 01:52:21,679
moved here um you all know I live up in
Northridge. There was a Northridge

1393
01:52:19,199 --> 01:52:26,080
picnic. Doesn't happen anymore
unfortunately, but it happened in

1394
01:52:23,360 --> 01:52:33,040
Northridge Park. So again, it wasn't on
a rideway, but it was in what's probably

1395
01:52:30,320 --> 01:52:37,599
considered city property. and hundreds
of people showed up for that thing and

1396
01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:45,679
it was like a back to school type
celebration. But um I think what Mr.

1397
01:52:42,320 --> 01:52:53,040
Nigron's talking about with insurance
needing to needing to have insurance or

1398
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:59,520
a deposit for the cityowned rightaway is
pretty important because as we all know

1399
01:52:56,000 --> 01:53:06,080
anything can happen. But um I would love
to see us put something in place to

1400
01:53:01,920 --> 01:53:09,520
encourage this and um see if we can't
get more of these communities having

1401
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:13,639
block parties. I think it's a great
idea. I love it.

1402
01:53:15,360 --> 01:53:25,920
» I would uh I agree. Um I didn't realize
that this wasn't allowed actually um

1403
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:30,000
until this showed up on our agenda. It
surprised me that this is not something

1404
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:34,960
we already have in place. Um, and I
think this is like the same as previous

1405
01:53:32,400 --> 01:53:39,679
conversation. This this sort of thing is
just critical for, you know, community

1406
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:46,159
cohesion and and vibrancy of the
neighborhood and everything that uh you

1407
01:53:42,159 --> 01:53:50,880
Miss Gabriel spoke to and and uh others.
um as much as we can encourage it, I

1408
01:53:48,800 --> 01:53:55,360
think is great for the community, which
is why I think the

1409
01:53:53,199 --> 01:54:01,920
entry threshold should be as low as
possible, which is why I think 51% I'm

1410
01:53:58,320 --> 01:54:08,400
totally for. Um I think if you don't
want to party on your street for a few

1411
01:54:04,960 --> 01:54:15,360
hours on a Saturday, uh but the majority
on your block do, I think you can live

1412
01:54:11,199 --> 01:54:22,239
with a party for a few hours um
on Saturday. So, um I'm all for it. Um

1413
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:28,560
and in fact, you know, one of the things
that I u I've been suggesting to the

1414
01:54:25,440 --> 01:54:34,239
chamber for a long time is uh this idea
that's I've seen in other communities

1415
01:54:31,119 --> 01:54:40,320
called PorchFest. Uh where neighborhoods
kind of shut down their streets and uh

1416
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:44,480
they invite bands to play uh in front
yards on the porch of various houses.

1417
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:47,599
and you go and you walk around the
neighborhood and you catch these

1418
01:54:45,760 --> 01:54:53,119
different concerts. Uh I think that
would be so much fun. Uh and I was kind

1419
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:57,760
of pushing it for the last few years. Um
not knowing that you can't even do it uh

1420
01:54:55,199 --> 01:55:03,119
with our with our rules. So now if we
can get this in uh we can actually uh

1421
01:55:00,719 --> 01:55:06,639
look to be doing that in the future. I'd
love to see that and maybe we can get

1422
01:55:05,119 --> 01:55:12,320
something going in my east side
neighborhood. Uh anything anything else

1423
01:55:10,320 --> 01:55:16,000
on this?
I didn't know.

1424
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:20,400
» Yeah. [laughter]
>> Yeah. I'm not I'm not afraid to admit my

1425
01:55:17,920 --> 01:55:24,639
ignorance on that. So,
all right.

1426
01:55:22,080 --> 01:55:30,320
All right. Uh since we talked about this
for a while, I'll one last opportunity

1427
01:55:26,560 --> 01:55:34,000
for public comment uh on let's keep it
focused on this topic. Uh anything

1428
01:55:32,639 --> 01:55:39,159
you've heard. If anybody wants to step
to the mic, state your name or raise

1429
01:55:35,840 --> 01:55:39,159
your hand if

1430
01:55:40,159 --> 01:55:45,599
Okay, [snorts] seeing none. Uh city
manager report.

1431
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:49,599
» Yeah, Mayor and Council, you know, this
parking discussion has kind of brought

1432
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:55,520
to light something that um we're
probably all going to see more often

1433
01:55:52,159 --> 01:56:00,320
here in the future. And you know, as you
know, city staff works really hard to

1434
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:05,599
provide thoughtful comments to the
public and responses that honestly take

1435
01:56:02,560 --> 01:56:12,000
a lot of time. And you've noticed here
the last couple weeks how with AI, it's

1436
01:56:08,400 --> 01:56:15,760
very easy for somebody to just spit a
response right back to you that probably

1437
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:20,560
takes them, as you've seen, less than a
minute. That'll include 10 bullet points

1438
01:56:17,760 --> 01:56:24,800
of demands of questions. City staff
doesn't have the ability to interact

1439
01:56:22,400 --> 01:56:30,080
with a public that itself really isn't
engaged and is just responsing via AI.

1440
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:35,280
you know, we we also, you know, in order
to respond are going to need, you know,

1441
01:56:32,239 --> 01:56:39,520
some concise, thoughtful questions that
because it'll just go on and on and on

1442
01:56:37,040 --> 01:56:44,080
and city staff doesn't have the time to
uh react to that. So, you know, in the

1443
01:56:41,440 --> 01:56:48,960
end, we are going to kind of relay, hey,
if you want to go this route, you know,

1444
01:56:47,280 --> 01:56:53,119
ask for, you know, public records
request, get everything you need. I

1445
01:56:51,040 --> 01:56:57,119
mean, in these instances, we have
individuals that aren't even willing to

1446
01:56:55,360 --> 01:57:03,040
put in the time to do a public records
request. So, you know, I I just want to

1447
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:06,800
make it kind of clear that even the
public comments we're getting, you'll

1448
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:10,080
see they're AI generated. So, it's going
to be very hard to decipher kind of

1449
01:57:08,320 --> 01:57:14,400
what's real and what's not, you know,
and we're just honestly in that that

1450
01:57:12,639 --> 01:57:19,599
world. [sighs and gasps] And, you know,
it's just ironic given the discussion

1451
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:24,960
about technology and stuff. So um just
be very thoughtful and you know

1452
01:57:22,400 --> 01:57:30,639
everything we do AI doesn't provide
context or history or all the emotion

1453
01:57:28,000 --> 01:57:35,520
that goes into these decisions as as you
um as you as you look at this because a

1454
01:57:33,360 --> 01:57:41,280
lot of thought does go into these
decisions by the council and um it uh

1455
01:57:39,040 --> 01:57:46,800
there's a lot of context that also is
getting missed in a lot of these public

1456
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:51,840
comments that seem like they're educated
and thoughtful, but the reality is

1457
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:56,000
they're being driven from just AI
questions and things like that that make

1458
01:57:53,840 --> 01:58:02,080
it very hard for the staff to just
continue to respond to. So just uh be

1459
01:57:59,920 --> 01:58:05,679
cuz I know our thought our staff has
been catching on to it quite a bit as of

1460
01:58:04,000 --> 01:58:11,599
late and it's not just regarding this
but just questions in general that we

1461
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:15,199
get that kind of are never ending and um
at first glance feel like maybe there

1462
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:18,880
was some thought put into them but as
you see them kind of cycle back and

1463
01:58:16,719 --> 01:58:23,040
forth it does make it very difficult for
staff to to be responsive to that in

1464
01:58:20,880 --> 01:58:27,760
perpetuity. So ask for a little bit of
grace in that staff is always willing to

1465
01:58:25,280 --> 01:58:31,760
meet with people in person and uh
facilitate a conversation but we also

1466
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:35,320
expect to have some thought coming back
to us as well.

1467
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:46,482
» Council reports start with you.
>> All right. Uh briefly

1468
01:58:41,840 --> 01:58:50,880
I Googled what liability insurance was.
[laughter] Okay. Li liability insurance

1469
01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:54,719
is coverage that protects individuals or
businesses from financial losses if they

1470
01:58:53,119 --> 01:58:59,840
are legally responsible for causing
injury or property damage to others.

1471
01:58:58,000 --> 01:59:04,480
Okay. I I I just don't get it still.
Somebody's going to have to explain to

1472
01:59:00,800 --> 01:59:11,920
me. I'm not an insurance guy. Um
I would like to address

1473
01:59:08,560 --> 01:59:17,920
everybody that is that that put time,
effort, and sweat into

1474
01:59:15,360 --> 01:59:22,800
the parking
um solution that we received uh

1475
01:59:20,320 --> 01:59:30,239
especially uh downtown forward and all
of the entities that actually helped

1476
01:59:25,440 --> 01:59:36,880
with that. Um I am
not I've never been a huge fan of

1477
01:59:34,320 --> 01:59:42,639
license plate readers. Um I am the
toughest guy on this council to talk

1478
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:46,400
into a system like that. And because of
that, I think if you can pass the hurdle

1479
01:59:44,639 --> 01:59:52,560
of me, then you could probably get past
most hurdles. Um,

1480
01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:59,440
I am offering to meet with Downtown
Forward or any of the other entities

1481
01:59:55,119 --> 02:00:03,520
that put time into that parking plan,
um, to discuss

1482
02:00:01,440 --> 02:00:09,040
not only license plate readers, but also
the plan in general and, you know, maybe

1483
02:00:06,080 --> 02:00:14,719
some alternatives for that. um if
anybody's interested from that group or

1484
02:00:12,239 --> 02:00:20,639
you know any of the general citizenry um
I'd be happy to have a discussion with

1485
02:00:17,679 --> 02:00:28,159
you and maybe multiple discussions
because it's probably a very large

1486
02:00:23,440 --> 02:00:32,080
subject. Um I I also would like to uh
you know just have everybody realize

1487
02:00:30,320 --> 02:00:38,080
that we are looking at a license plate
reader at the worst possible time in

1488
02:00:34,800 --> 02:00:44,560
history right now. This was it wasn't
even as big of a deal in May when we

1489
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:51,840
talked about it. Right now, it is the
hot topic out there. And believe me,

1490
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:57,520
people really, really can't distinguish
between the full flock type system and

1491
02:00:55,440 --> 02:01:02,480
an enclosed license plate reader system
that is used for parking enforcement

1492
02:00:59,119 --> 02:01:09,280
only. So, it's a it's a high hurdle. I
understand that. Um, I understand that I

1493
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:15,280
have been a thorn in the downtown
forward side for years now on things

1494
02:01:13,360 --> 02:01:22,080
that are very important to them like the
the downtown plan and this uh that does

1495
02:01:19,040 --> 02:01:25,840
not mean that I am in opposition to what
you're trying to do. I want to just have

1496
02:01:24,159 --> 02:01:31,520
some healthy discussion about it. I want
you to I want you to help me understand

1497
02:01:29,119 --> 02:01:36,480
and to convince me of some of these
things. Um, and I'll tell you where I'm

1498
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:41,040
coming from and maybe that discussion
will glean something important, right?

1499
02:01:38,639 --> 02:01:45,920
And um, you know, you're not going to
have a harder time with anybody up here

1500
02:01:43,440 --> 02:01:51,440
besides this guy. I understand that. I
know I'm a problem. Okay? So, uh, please

1501
02:01:49,920 --> 02:01:57,360
take me up on that offer. I would love
to discuss this with you. I have some

1502
02:01:53,040 --> 02:02:04,080
ideas. I also have some, um, uh, things
about LPR that I' I'd like to discuss as

1503
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:08,000
well. um you know more intricate um I am
I'm I'm a technology worker. I work kind

1504
02:02:06,400 --> 02:02:13,679
of in this field not specifically with
license plate readers but with um

1505
02:02:10,159 --> 02:02:17,360
security um uh for defense contractors.
So I'm I'm fairly familiar with systems

1506
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:22,880
like this and I just like to discuss
some things with you um if you're

1507
02:02:20,000 --> 02:02:27,000
interested. So I'll make that um offer
and pass it on to Jed.

1508
02:02:27,280 --> 02:02:33,119
» I think we kind of crapped on downtown
last week.

1509
02:02:30,960 --> 02:02:39,679
Um, and I'm part of that and I'm not
going to point out anybody else that

1510
02:02:35,280 --> 02:02:45,280
did, but I still have a motivation to
have rules in place before an RFP. I

1511
02:02:43,199 --> 02:02:52,560
think that's what Miss Blank stated
clearly last week. Um, it can be done.

1512
02:02:49,920 --> 02:02:57,119
We we can reverse this and not have to
get the bid first. They should see our

1513
02:02:54,480 --> 02:03:02,400
rules. Maybe they can't meet it. Um,
they should see the seven or eight

1514
02:02:59,679 --> 02:03:07,440
points. I believe the mayor said, I
think you added a couple. I I'm willing

1515
02:03:05,199 --> 02:03:12,480
to look at them and and move that
forward to accommodate the needs of

1516
02:03:10,239 --> 02:03:16,480
downtown. That makes sense to me. I
mean, these people worked hard. We

1517
02:03:13,920 --> 02:03:21,360
supported this for a long time. And then
all of a sudden, we have which I'm

1518
02:03:18,560 --> 02:03:25,360
wondering if some of this is people that
aren't I know they're not from

1519
02:03:22,800 --> 02:03:28,800
Callispel. They announced Marian. They
announced White Fish. Not that they

1520
02:03:26,719 --> 02:03:33,199
don't care about the outlying community,
but we do in fact work for the residents

1521
02:03:30,960 --> 02:03:38,159
of Callispel. That's who elected us.
That's who's paying us this big raise.

1522
02:03:35,440 --> 02:03:43,360
Um that's who we represent, right? And I
I I think that we got a little

1523
02:03:40,800 --> 02:03:46,480
sidetracked um by the comments, but I
appreciate them and I appreciate what

1524
02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:50,000
you're saying. I just want to reverse
things a little bit and I've talked to

1525
02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:55,040
the manager, city manager about this a
little. I think the rules spelled out

1526
02:03:52,639 --> 02:04:00,480
prior to the RFP or part of the request
for proposals will help us. If we don't

1527
02:03:57,520 --> 02:04:06,400
like something, then we move on and
maybe they don't provide that. And

1528
02:04:03,679 --> 02:04:10,560
we end up sidetracked once again. But
that seems to make sense to me. And I I

1529
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:14,960
just I want to kind of go on record as
saying I think that um although it's our

1530
02:04:13,360 --> 02:04:21,199
job to listen to everybody, we really
need to hone in on who we are listening

1531
02:04:18,239 --> 02:04:25,599
to. Um, again, I care about Mary and I
care about kind of Whitefish. Um,

1532
02:04:23,810 --> 02:04:31,520
[laughter]
I I really do, but these are the people

1533
02:04:28,719 --> 02:04:37,119
that had worked hard and I just kind of
wanted to go on record and say I guess I

1534
02:04:33,440 --> 02:04:40,480
feel like um although deserved and I
want to backtrack and I want to take a

1535
02:04:38,719 --> 02:04:45,639
break and I want some better rules in
place, I think that we crapped on

1536
02:04:42,239 --> 02:04:45,639
downtown council.

1537
02:04:46,080 --> 02:04:55,520
I've had a lot of opportunity for
reflection this last week. Um, and uh,

1538
02:04:52,639 --> 02:04:59,280
John when he was up here uh, made a
point of of saying that he uh, was

1539
02:04:57,520 --> 02:05:02,239
incorrect about a few things. I think
one thing we were incorrect about was

1540
02:05:00,560 --> 02:05:10,719
not having the policy in place first.
Uh, I I think that the prevalence of

1541
02:05:07,840 --> 02:05:15,520
disinformation that existed online was
in in part predicated on us not being

1542
02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:19,599
very clear about what we were doing. Um,
and uh, I think there's an opportunity

1543
02:05:17,679 --> 02:05:25,760
to correct that with the policy, perhaps
an ordinance of the things that are not

1544
02:05:22,880 --> 02:05:31,119
um, available um, as options. Uh most of
the things that were issues last week

1545
02:05:28,400 --> 02:05:34,400
are specifically outlawed by Montana
statute. If we need to put that in place

1546
02:05:32,880 --> 02:05:38,719
in an ordinance saying that we're not
going to do these things, then that's

1547
02:05:35,599 --> 02:05:46,159
great. But let's be very clear about
what um what we are doing and uh do it

1548
02:05:42,159 --> 02:05:50,400
beforehand. The other thing that was
very common

1549
02:05:49,040 --> 02:05:56,560
that was very interesting to me this
week is the prevalence of AI um in terms

1550
02:05:53,920 --> 02:06:01,040
of the public discourse uh both online
through the comments that we're

1551
02:05:57,599 --> 02:06:07,840
receiving uh both online and in uh in
person. Um and I think it's important

1552
02:06:04,719 --> 02:06:13,520
for I use AI every day at work. Um it's
an incredible tool. um but it has the

1553
02:06:10,639 --> 02:06:18,880
opportunity to be misused dramatically
if it's not a tool but instead just

1554
02:06:15,679 --> 02:06:24,800
replaces critical thinking and we're
seeing that a lot. Um Jared's comments I

1555
02:06:21,520 --> 02:06:30,639
think are uh are part of that. So take a
little bit of time to figure out what is

1556
02:06:26,560 --> 02:06:34,239
AI and what's not. I just asked AI to to
point out some of its cliches and it

1557
02:06:32,800 --> 02:06:39,040
took a while for me to actually get it
to do it, but it does certain things

1558
02:06:36,159 --> 02:06:43,760
like uh this fake emphasis opener. Let
me be clear, AI generated comments

1559
02:06:41,679 --> 02:06:50,880
threaten the integrity of public input.
Full stop, right? We hear that often. Um

1560
02:06:48,400 --> 02:06:54,800
the padding, the rule of three padding
comments should be authentic,

1561
02:06:52,560 --> 02:07:00,159
transparent, and accountable. three
things in a row, commonly almost

1562
02:06:57,679 --> 02:07:06,159
exclusively AI. There's about seven of
them that AI gave me um along these

1563
02:07:02,880 --> 02:07:10,000
lines, but there are patterns and it's
important for us to be able to use our

1564
02:07:08,000 --> 02:07:17,159
critical thinking skills in order to
understand what is coming to us and the

1565
02:07:13,199 --> 02:07:17,159
weight that it should be given.

1566
02:07:18,159 --> 02:07:21,480
» Mr. Waterman.

1567
02:07:22,719 --> 02:07:30,239
» Thank you, Mr.
council. Sorry not to be there in person

1568
02:07:28,560 --> 02:07:36,000
because I really do value these
conversations and the conversations that

1569
02:07:32,159 --> 02:07:40,560
we have even if I'm here remotely. Um
sort of made the comment last week that

1570
02:07:39,360 --> 02:07:44,719
we are clearly going to have more
conversations about parking. I'm already

1571
02:07:42,400 --> 02:07:49,679
hearing that and really supportive of
the idea of putting policy first and

1572
02:07:46,800 --> 02:07:53,920
making sure that we are um moving things
and thinking about the vibrancy of

1573
02:07:51,440 --> 02:07:57,040
downtown. And then today, just really
thankful that council had some

1574
02:07:55,440 --> 02:08:00,880
conversations about the parking lots and
really excited to see a little bit more

1575
02:07:59,119 --> 02:08:04,320
fun being proposed for what we could be
doing in the neighborhoods and the block

1576
02:08:02,320 --> 02:08:11,480
parties. So, thank you for the great
work session. Look forward to being home

1577
02:08:06,239 --> 02:08:11,480
and um joining you all next week.

1578
02:08:17,440 --> 02:08:24,480
» Um I first want to You're right, Mr. Mr.
McDonald. I did ask for solutions. So, I

1579
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:30,159
really appreciate you bringing that
forward and as well, Mr. Kingle. I I I

1580
02:08:27,599 --> 02:08:34,079
want to uh thank you for that. I also
want to point out why I don't respond in

1581
02:08:32,000 --> 02:08:39,360
emails be because email can be
misinterpreted. So, it's a good way to

1582
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:44,480
bring out ideas but to reach
understanding and connection. It's

1583
02:08:41,920 --> 02:08:49,760
conversation. So, for those folks who
see I'm I'm not going to have a long

1584
02:08:47,520 --> 02:08:54,320
dialogue on email that that's that's
just has not been in the research. shows

1585
02:08:51,840 --> 02:08:58,719
it's not the best practice if we want to
reach that space that we're all trying

1586
02:08:56,400 --> 02:09:03,119
to so hard to get to. That being said, I
would love to think through how we use

1587
02:09:00,480 --> 02:09:08,480
that fifth Monday to have word specific
conversations in person in the wards so

1588
02:09:06,159 --> 02:09:12,800
we make it easier to really connect with
people. I think one of the things that

1589
02:09:10,159 --> 02:09:17,119
happened last week and I had a lot of
people come up to me and say, "Thank

1590
02:09:14,239 --> 02:09:22,079
you, Lisa, for not supporting the
license plate recognition software." So,

1591
02:09:20,239 --> 02:09:27,520
which didn't happen prior to that, it
was interesting for me to see what that

1592
02:09:23,760 --> 02:09:32,079
brought up. Um, so while I am not saying
I have the answer, I do think the policy

1593
02:09:30,400 --> 02:09:35,360
and we do need a solution and I
absolutely

1594
02:09:33,599 --> 02:09:38,880
um believe in that and want to work
towards that for the downtown and for

1595
02:09:36,880 --> 02:09:44,639
the community and for Cowispell. That is
still a value of mine. It's just as

1596
02:09:42,880 --> 02:09:48,960
others have said, we are in historic
times. People are frightened. They're

1597
02:09:47,119 --> 02:09:52,560
uncomfortable. we don't have control
over a lot of this um technology and

1598
02:09:50,960 --> 02:09:57,920
that's what a I did a bit of research
this week as well and even when you put

1599
02:09:54,239 --> 02:10:01,199
in policy and breaks it's it's only as
good as the people who are enforcing it.

1600
02:09:59,520 --> 02:10:05,520
So I just think we need to be mindful of
that there are reasons why people are

1601
02:10:03,280 --> 02:10:10,000
frightened and uncomfortable and I don't
want to walk away from that and there

1602
02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:15,199
are other solutions for parking that
aren't chuck either. So, I would really

1603
02:10:13,679 --> 02:10:19,119
for me I just think it's important for
us to have a policy to really talk

1604
02:10:17,040 --> 02:10:23,599
through what are those others and what's
the price we're willing to pay for

1605
02:10:21,840 --> 02:10:28,159
enforcement. We know enforcement is
what's going to work in downtown.

1606
02:10:25,840 --> 02:10:32,880
Absolutely on board for that. What kind
of enforcement do we want and what are

1607
02:10:30,880 --> 02:10:37,679
we willing to compromise for that
enforcement? And what I heard last week

1608
02:10:34,960 --> 02:10:44,000
is I I have a lot I heard a lot of
concerns about control towards my

1609
02:10:41,199 --> 02:10:47,280
personal data and and yes, we don't
understand a lot of it, but we also

1610
02:10:45,760 --> 02:10:51,920
don't have a lot of control of it at the
end of the day. We still don't. So, um

1611
02:10:50,159 --> 02:10:58,880
those are my my thoughts is I hope we
can do some more focused in-person ward

1612
02:10:54,960 --> 02:11:02,320
specific conversations and um and for
those folks who are looking for an

1613
02:11:00,639 --> 02:11:09,159
exchange on email, I'm going to
apologize. come talk to me. Be happy to

1614
02:11:05,599 --> 02:11:09,159
go out for a coffee.

1615
02:11:10,639 --> 02:11:17,040
» Sorry I missed all the fun last week. It
sounds like it was a lively discussion.

1616
02:11:15,119 --> 02:11:20,719
Um
yeah, I I I definitely feel like there's

1617
02:11:18,880 --> 02:11:25,280
a lot of misinformation about what we're
talking about, what's being discussed,

1618
02:11:22,639 --> 02:11:29,920
and the broader uh questions that are
going on around the country around the

1619
02:11:26,480 --> 02:11:36,000
mass surveillance with this the cameras.
I I remain confident that the isolated

1620
02:11:33,440 --> 02:11:40,400
barebones license plate reader systems
can be successfully isolated and safely

1621
02:11:38,719 --> 02:11:44,880
used when guaranteeing people's
privacies. Um there are other

1622
02:11:42,800 --> 02:11:50,000
technologies available as as mentioned
uh p more uh privacy protecting

1623
02:11:48,079 --> 02:11:54,239
technologies available. They're just
more expensive uh sometimes quite a bit

1624
02:11:52,320 --> 02:11:58,159
more expensive. And so, you know,
attempting to be fiscally responsible

1625
02:11:56,159 --> 02:12:01,280
and not burden our taxpayers with
additional money, we were feel like we

1626
02:11:59,920 --> 02:12:05,440
were trying to do the the fiscally
responsible thing up here and go with

1627
02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:09,119
the the most prudent financial solution
at the time. But if we're willing to

1628
02:12:07,520 --> 02:12:12,800
spend the more money, there are bigger,
more comprehensive solutions available,

1629
02:12:10,800 --> 02:12:17,280
we can go rolling out and go look at
those instead. I would be open to

1630
02:12:15,520 --> 02:12:22,079
looking at those, too. I'm certainly not
opposed to passing a policy first. Uh

1631
02:12:19,760 --> 02:12:26,400
I've I've never been super excited about
the license plate readers, but uh again,

1632
02:12:24,079 --> 02:12:29,119
I think that the barebones kind of
parking license plate readers we're

1633
02:12:27,920 --> 02:12:33,119
talking about are a very different
animal uh than the mass surveillance

1634
02:12:31,199 --> 02:12:37,520
type of cameras uh that are making the
news and that uh it it is certainly

1635
02:12:35,520 --> 02:12:41,360
possible for us to lock it down in a
safe manner and comply with good privacy

1636
02:12:39,280 --> 02:12:44,880
policies. But happy to have these
discussions and pass these policies

1637
02:12:42,880 --> 02:12:50,480
first um if that makes everybody more
comfortable. Certainly,

1638
02:12:48,079 --> 02:12:55,920
» Miss Gabriel.
>> Thank you, your honor. Um, I agree with

1639
02:12:53,599 --> 02:13:03,840
Mr. Fiser. I feel like we crapped all
over the downtown group last week um and

1640
02:13:00,159 --> 02:13:08,719
threw out all of their research. So, um,
I agree with that and I completely

1641
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:13,440
disagree with Mr. Dow in having a
meeting with that group individually. I

1642
02:13:11,520 --> 02:13:19,040
think we all need to do that together
and council needs to hear the

1643
02:13:15,520 --> 02:13:24,159
information all the same way. Uh just as
we're not supposed to be having

1644
02:13:20,560 --> 02:13:28,320
individual meetings on things um for a
whole lot of reasons. I think it's

1645
02:13:25,599 --> 02:13:34,560
important we hear everything exactly the
same way. Um

1646
02:13:32,400 --> 02:13:40,719
with all of this, you know, that was
brought up last week. Um, I want to say

1647
02:13:38,000 --> 02:13:44,000
that first and foremost I am loyal to
the city of Callispel and their

1648
02:13:42,480 --> 02:13:48,880
residents.
Um, I specifically represent Ward One.

1649
02:13:47,280 --> 02:13:54,960
Um,
I think one thing that would help a ton

1650
02:13:51,679 --> 02:14:00,239
is if we had comment cards that anyone
that wanted to provide public comment

1651
02:13:57,119 --> 02:14:04,880
would fill out comment cards with their
information because there were a number

1652
02:14:02,159 --> 02:14:09,679
of people last week that spoke and said,
"Hi, I'm so and so and I live in blah

1653
02:14:07,520 --> 02:14:13,280
blah blah." We didn't get a full name.
We didn't get a spelling. We didn't get

1654
02:14:11,199 --> 02:14:18,320
an address. So, how do we verify that's
really who they were? So, um I know

1655
02:14:16,639 --> 02:14:25,679
there's a way to work that out because
other other uh municipalities do it. I

1656
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:29,840
think parking validation could also be,
you know, part of the solution with

1657
02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:36,560
folks who are concerned about the time
limit downtown. There's so much that's

1658
02:14:32,719 --> 02:14:42,719
possible that I do think it would be um
worth having having more conversation

1659
02:14:39,199 --> 02:14:47,760
about that. When our police chief and
our city manager tell us this is the

1660
02:14:45,760 --> 02:14:52,560
solution that we are bringing forward
and this is what we can afford, I think

1661
02:14:50,800 --> 02:14:57,199
we need to listen to them because
they've obviously ruled some things out

1662
02:14:54,639 --> 02:15:03,679
that we can't afford. I'm not saying
they get to decide. We do. However, I

1663
02:15:00,880 --> 02:15:11,119
think we need to maybe heed a little
more into um their opinions there and

1664
02:15:07,920 --> 02:15:16,719
the work that was done by the committee.
Um

1665
02:15:12,880 --> 02:15:23,760
I think that's it. I uh I
I I just Oh, the other thing, council,

1666
02:15:20,400 --> 02:15:27,199
stay off of Facebook and stop sitting on
411

1667
02:15:25,199 --> 02:15:32,480
» and listening to all the crap that's
going back and forth. I I think that

1668
02:15:29,280 --> 02:15:39,440
gets people riled up and makes a false
sense of what's um really important. Um

1669
02:15:37,840 --> 02:15:44,400
I just think you should all stay off
Facebook. I can't I can't do it anymore.

1670
02:15:41,440 --> 02:15:50,880
I can't even go there. Can't watch it.
Can't listen to it. That's my uh my two

1671
02:15:48,159 --> 02:15:57,440
cents. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Um, yeah. So, I was uh gone

1672
02:15:54,880 --> 02:16:01,360
for three meetings and uh it's ne, as I
said before I left, uh it's never

1673
02:15:59,440 --> 02:16:06,239
there's never a good time to leave, but
you always hope that it's pretty quiet

1674
02:16:03,119 --> 02:16:13,199
when you're when you're gone. Um, and I
certainly heard about uh last week and

1675
02:16:09,040 --> 02:16:17,599
and uh I always uh feel bad about
missing important big important

1676
02:16:15,119 --> 02:16:21,840
meetings, but I do uh appreciate uh
Council President Waterman for filling

1677
02:16:19,520 --> 02:16:29,440
in and I think he did a great job um
chairing the meetings while I was gone.

1678
02:16:24,079 --> 02:16:34,880
Um so a number of things uh want to just
touch on. Um, one, there was a public

1679
02:16:32,639 --> 02:16:39,519
comment recommendation maybe making
clear that public uh, parking permits

1680
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:44,319
are available to anyone in the public on
our website. Uh, if we don't have that

1681
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:49,040
on there, uh, maybe that'd be easy easy
thing to make clear on on our website.

1682
02:16:46,719 --> 02:16:55,359
Uh, in response to public comment in
terms of license plate readers, I I

1683
02:16:52,800 --> 02:17:04,000
don't want to speak on this too long,
but I do I I did watch the meeting last

1684
02:16:58,800 --> 02:17:09,120
week. um and uh was frustrated by the
mis misinformation

1685
02:17:06,080 --> 02:17:13,439
uh and the focus on a lot of national
news. I agree with the comment that it's

1686
02:17:11,120 --> 02:17:18,080
like the worst possible time to have
this come before us because

1687
02:17:16,160 --> 02:17:25,120
just like I think everybody else in my
news feed of of social media, I'm seeing

1688
02:17:21,200 --> 02:17:29,840
just tons and tons of stuff about uh the
surveillance system uh and all these

1689
02:17:27,679 --> 02:17:33,920
terrible stories and I'm on board with
everybody that's like this is terrible

1690
02:17:31,760 --> 02:17:38,559
stuff. Uh but it's very much removed
from what we were actually proposing.

1691
02:17:36,080 --> 02:17:42,800
Um, and I think it's important to
remember why we were proposing it. Not

1692
02:17:40,559 --> 02:17:47,679
only because of downtown Ford's
proposal, and it was a central feature

1693
02:17:44,960 --> 02:17:54,319
of making that work, right? Chalking
tires, it doesn't work. It It takes, as

1694
02:17:52,319 --> 02:17:58,240
city manager had stated, four hours to
do, and we have a two-hour time limit.

1695
02:17:56,639 --> 02:18:03,120
So, we weren't enforcing our downtown
parking. So, you know, people saying it

1696
02:18:00,479 --> 02:18:07,920
go back to chalking tires. I don't think
that's an option because it's not

1697
02:18:04,639 --> 02:18:11,359
effective. it it's not efficient. Um,
and so if it's not license plate

1698
02:18:10,000 --> 02:18:15,040
readers, we do need something else
because chalking tires just doesn't

1699
02:18:12,880 --> 02:18:19,439
work. Um, but the reason we are looking
at technology and getting that

1700
02:18:16,399 --> 02:18:24,240
efficiency is because it freed up that
parking officer to do other things. We

1701
02:18:22,080 --> 02:18:28,399
had an animal warden position that
didn't do enough things so we could

1702
02:18:26,399 --> 02:18:31,920
combine those positions, but also the
code enforcement, which we've heard

1703
02:18:30,160 --> 02:18:35,760
endlessly from the public that they
want. We're the only large community

1704
02:18:33,359 --> 02:18:40,479
that doesn't have code enforcement uh
person, dedicated person. We had an

1705
02:18:38,559 --> 02:18:45,519
opportunity to combine three different
positions in one through the efficiency

1706
02:18:43,280 --> 02:18:52,319
of new technology.
So, it's not just about saving money on

1707
02:18:49,519 --> 02:18:55,920
a position, which was kind of stated a
lot at last week's meeting. Instead, we

1708
02:18:54,719 --> 02:18:58,800
should just pay somebody to do the
chalking. No, there were three different

1709
02:18:57,280 --> 02:19:03,280
positions we were going to combine into
this position and get a position uh of

1710
02:19:01,920 --> 02:19:09,599
code enforcement that we've been talking
about for years to do. Not only that,

1711
02:19:05,840 --> 02:19:15,599
but there's other positions we need like
a transportation planner that we've

1712
02:19:12,399 --> 02:19:18,960
talked about that if we then don't do
this and have to hire a code enforcement

1713
02:19:17,359 --> 02:19:22,080
officer, that means we can't do a
transportation planner if we're only

1714
02:19:20,479 --> 02:19:26,639
doing, you know, an additional position
with our budget and so forth. So, it has

1715
02:19:24,080 --> 02:19:32,240
all these ramifications
uh if we don't move forward with kind of

1716
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:36,479
some sort of plan to be more efficient
with our parking enforcement downtown.

1717
02:19:34,880 --> 02:19:40,559
So, I think that's important to
recognize because I don't think the

1718
02:19:37,760 --> 02:19:46,719
public comment truly appreciated the
motivation we had uh and and what was

1719
02:19:43,920 --> 02:19:53,040
kind of steering us towards technology
and gaining that efficiency.

1720
02:19:50,080 --> 02:19:57,040
Um,
and I just want to stay somebody in the

1721
02:19:55,280 --> 02:20:01,120
public comment mentioned a John Oliver
program that highlights all the all the

1722
02:19:59,200 --> 02:20:07,359
problems. I watched that. I listen to it
all. I still feel that it's different

1723
02:20:03,680 --> 02:20:11,439
from what we are proposing. Um,
but what I heard and I hear from a

1724
02:20:09,200 --> 02:20:17,840
number of public comments
is that fear

1725
02:20:14,399 --> 02:20:21,760
uh that fear of what what it is we're
doing and what the results are. And I

1726
02:20:19,840 --> 02:20:26,960
think it is because of that lack of
policy uh coming first and we heard that

1727
02:20:25,200 --> 02:20:31,359
a lot. You know, we policy should come
first. I think um Mr. Leidge, you're

1728
02:20:29,680 --> 02:20:37,760
correct that that was probably a mistake
in process just hindsight um it would

1729
02:20:35,280 --> 02:20:42,080
have gone more smoothly uh better if we
had that policy up front. So I think

1730
02:20:39,760 --> 02:20:46,960
having a work session obviously there's
some different perspective here about

1731
02:20:44,560 --> 02:20:54,160
whether we look at other ways of doing
it. Um but also even if we don't go move

1732
02:20:51,920 --> 02:21:00,479
forward with the license plate reader,
let's develop a policy for

1733
02:20:57,120 --> 02:21:04,319
using these type of technology
um so that we have it in place if we

1734
02:21:02,720 --> 02:21:08,640
ever decide to go there in the future.
So I think it's worth a discussion and

1735
02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:14,800
establishing some sort of policy uh in
place to set those standards, bring

1736
02:21:10,800 --> 02:21:20,399
state law into our city code uh on this.
I think that will give the public a lot

1737
02:21:16,960 --> 02:21:25,200
of reassurance and kind of tamp down the
fear that is going on that's being

1738
02:21:23,280 --> 02:21:30,160
driven by the national narrative and
based on kind of the lack of clarity of

1739
02:21:27,760 --> 02:21:35,359
of what we're going to do because we
don't have a policy that's guiding us.

1740
02:21:32,160 --> 02:21:40,720
So I think a future work session
uh is in order and it sounds like

1741
02:21:37,359 --> 02:21:48,560
there's kind of general agreement that
more discussions needed uh on that. Um,

1742
02:21:45,680 --> 02:21:54,319
on public comments, uh, one of the
things I I was thinking after watching

1743
02:21:51,600 --> 02:21:58,720
last week's meeting is maybe in addition
asking for people's name, uh, asking for

1744
02:21:57,200 --> 02:22:04,240
folks to state whether or not they're a
resident of Cisbell. Um, it's fine if

1745
02:22:02,080 --> 02:22:06,800
they're not. We hear we take all public
comment. If you want to come from

1746
02:22:05,439 --> 02:22:10,720
another community and weigh in,
obviously we're the county seat. what we

1747
02:22:09,040 --> 02:22:14,960
do affects the rest of the county. So,
that's relevant and important comment,

1748
02:22:13,120 --> 02:22:19,040
but it's also important for us to know
who our constituents are who are coming

1749
02:22:16,960 --> 02:22:22,720
up and speaking to us in public comment.
So, I may be doing that if I and if I

1750
02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:29,439
don't, please remind me because I think
that's a that would be a good move

1751
02:22:24,800 --> 02:22:33,600
moving forward. Um, I just want to
express my total agreement with Mr.

1752
02:22:31,280 --> 02:22:39,359
Nyigrin and the reference to AI
comments. Uh I we have been noticing

1753
02:22:36,479 --> 02:22:44,800
that and you know there's kind of this
entitlement that we're hearing from

1754
02:22:41,359 --> 02:22:49,760
folks that um you have to speaking to
staff or council members answer every

1755
02:22:46,880 --> 02:22:54,080
question I send you and do it within the
time frame I demand. You have to you

1756
02:22:51,920 --> 02:23:00,800
have to answer my questions by Monday or
else. No, we don't. We want to be

1757
02:22:58,000 --> 02:23:05,520
responsive to the public. We will do our
best to be responsive to the public. But

1758
02:23:03,200 --> 02:23:10,240
if you're using AI to generate pages and
pages of questions and sending it and

1759
02:23:08,240 --> 02:23:15,359
diverting significant amount of staff
time or council time, my time as mayor

1760
02:23:13,439 --> 02:23:21,680
to try to
answer pages and pages of questions that

1761
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:27,760
when you respond only results in another
email with more questions demanding they

1762
02:23:24,640 --> 02:23:34,640
be answered within a few days. No, we
have no obligation to respond to that um

1763
02:23:31,120 --> 02:23:39,359
and take up a lot. We we re we work for
the entire city, not one individual

1764
02:23:36,880 --> 02:23:46,720
sending in pages and pages of questions
and demanding answers to them all. Um

1765
02:23:44,080 --> 02:23:52,319
last thing, uh next Monday is a fifth
Monday. Um as you know, I I've committed

1766
02:23:50,080 --> 02:23:57,120
to town halls on fifth Mondays, uh at
least for this year, uh to have an

1767
02:23:54,880 --> 02:24:02,080
opportunity for the public to have a
more informal kind of back and forth

1768
02:23:59,840 --> 02:24:07,439
discussion. Anyone from council is
welcome to join. It'll be as we did last

1769
02:24:04,720 --> 02:24:13,040
time here at council chambers 7 o'clock
next Monday. Um and if there's

1770
02:24:10,800 --> 02:24:17,600
representatives of different wards uh
after kind of initial start of the

1771
02:24:14,880 --> 02:24:21,840
meeting, folks can break off into their
wards and have uh individual

1772
02:24:19,439 --> 02:24:26,960
conversations with their constituents as
well. Um welcome that. Uh but I want to

1773
02:24:25,520 --> 02:24:31,439
make sure that the public is aware that
that will be happening next Monday. uh

1774
02:24:29,359 --> 02:24:39,399
and that's a commitment of mine to uh
continue doing that this year. So uh

1775
02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:39,399
with that I think we're journ Thank you.