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this will just ski

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yeah it's Hodge dr. day key mr. Blanchet

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you're mr. coy judge Wendell min yeah we

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have a qualm and thank you very much

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according to our agenda the first item

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is public comment we have no public or

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no comment okay second item is approval

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of the minutes and and they were sent

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out everyone had a copy as anyone has

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comment on it

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mr. coy one correction under six the

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last paragraph says mr. Kouri enquired

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about the confidentially complaints I

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believe that was dr. day he said when I

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looked at the video yeah okay anyone

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else have any comment on the minutes

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solution yeah we have a motion to

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approve motion to approve the minutes in

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a second all right we have a motion and

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a second and so we'll have a vote all

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those in favor say aye aye opposed nay

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no opposition okay so they're approved

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all right now are you ready

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these will ever be oh good I'm glad to

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hear that we need to note one other

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appearance

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yes dr. Drake II just note this came in

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and now where you will have a report on

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complaints file from our legal brain

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judge ones no I'm just an advisor in

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that I know but you got a brain there

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was a complaint that is that was filed

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and I think it maybe be helpful if I

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kind of try to go through the chronology

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of some of these I guess we were last

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together back in October and I think

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that's when the or no December I guess

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disapproved a meeting then in January on

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January 11th I received from the from

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Diane the fact that a complaint had been

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received into their office the day

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before so I came in and picked it up

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and I acknowledge receipt of the

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complaint by phone to the complaint on

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the same date actually talked to the

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person and and at that time she advised

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that she might be withdrawing the

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complaint because she said she had in

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her mind as to without there was

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jurisdiction issues whether or not that

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was appropriate as far as being filed

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with the Commission here excuse me she

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also advised us to repair in a more

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detailed statement which did

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subsequently come in I advised her that

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I had commitments for the rest of the

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week at that time would not be able to

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get into the actual work on the

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complaint until the following week on

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the 19th I received an email stating she

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was withdrawing the complaint which I

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acknowledge so at that point in time I

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felt the matter was was done there was

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no further action on my part and it

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really had not done any type of

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other than reading through it a couple

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of times hadn't really done any type of

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work on it then on February 1st I

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received by email a copy of a

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whistleblower complaint which is another

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section that's at the end of the

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government ethics see if I can make

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reference to it real quick here what are we calling the first thing that

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was the first thing was a weather was an

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ethics complaint okay

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the second item filed in February was a

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whistleblower complaint which I think my

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recollection is it came by way of the

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auditor's office first I think it was

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filed with him with carbon copies sent

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to carbon copies extra emails being sent

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to you and I'll have to explain that to

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myself and I don't know the other

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individuals but by means of the email a

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copy of being sent to me I acknowledge

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receipt of that at that point in time

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clear back when all this began as I had

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advised the Chairman and the state's

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attorney's office and people here I gave

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up my license so I am not in a position

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to give legal advice I will not go into

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that type of process whatsoever

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so when due to the nature of the

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allegations in the complaint I advised

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the Chairman wheeler and also I think I

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had a conversation with mr.

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Quinn advised him that I felt is

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necessary that we have outside

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independent legal counsel why did it

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come from did you say the recorders

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office auditor's office auditors are

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right why did it come from the otter ah

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there's honor the let me get back to the

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provision when there's a whistleblower

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complaint again this is section and

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division seven section two dash two

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eight six whenever any officer employee

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of Kankakee County reason believes

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evidence exists that another officer

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employee has perpetuated gross

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mismanagement gross misuse or waste of

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public resources or funds abuse of

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authority in connection with

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administration of public program etc etc

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shall bring the evidence to the

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immediate attention of the state's

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eternity the auditor or the employees

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department head so that's how come it

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went that way and there's some things

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that you know discussion as to ordinance

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revisions which is the next matter and

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that which I'll get into that have come

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to light because of this this

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whistleblower complaint but nevertheless

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back to the fact that it came from the

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auditor's office that I contacted the

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Chairman's office again outside legal

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counsel was procured from the appellate

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process prosecutor's office which is

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standard process if a state's attorney's

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office cannot handle it and through the

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course of working with the this attorney

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the two determination was made that

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there was no jurisdiction

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for us to be able to consider this

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whistleblower complaint

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the reason being at the time that the

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whistleblower complaint was filed the

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individual was not an employee of the

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county was not was not an employee of

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the county and again if you look at the

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first sentence of 2 - 2 86 when any

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officer or employee of Kankakee County

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reasonably believes that they can

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basically file this type of an action

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purpose I believe over all of the

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whistleblower protection is so employees

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of a governmental entity do not have to

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be fearful of losing their job if they

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file these type of complaints so again

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that's that's the protection that's

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afforded out there again this individual

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is or at the time of the filing of the

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whistleblower complaint was no longer an

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employee at the county I don't really

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know the complete details of it and that

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I know that the person was discharged I

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don't know how agreeable was I you know

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based on what's contained and some of it

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there was some disagreement in the

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complaints with the different things

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that have been found there was some

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difficulty that was occur between the

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department head and the employee and

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again because of the fact that I'm

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approaching this at the current time as

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I would any other time that a complaint

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is filed I'm not going to be bringing

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out names even though the gentleman

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sitting over here is full aware of who

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the names are and everything I'm still

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going to approach it from the

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perspective that

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I don't think it's proper for me to

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discuss the individuals name out in the

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general public however I will put out

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that the individual involved was an

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employee of the state's attorney's

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office that is why I felt that it was

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necessary that outside independent

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counsel be procured for two different I

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you know I I wanted this group to be

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able to say we had no impact or

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influence from within the office and I

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felt it was advisable for the state's

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attorney's office

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that they not be involved because it

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removed them from being subject to an

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argument that you know they weren't

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shooting straight I just felt that it

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was necessary that independent counsel

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be appointed and ultimately chairman

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wheeler agreed with that also so we are

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now at a stage where I'm in the

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ordinance we're supposed to give notice

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well let me let me step back again in

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that I sent a copy of the legal opinion

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out to the complaint I got an email back

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and basically advised the complainant

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that in all fairness to them I and the

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gist of the decision or the opinion from

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the outside legal adviser was that due

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to the fact that this person was no

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longer employee and employee they were

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not protected by the whistleblower

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ordinance again I'm not gonna give out

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legal advice that's not my capacity here

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even though it talks about advisor

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that's another thing I want to talk

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about as far as the name of this I'm

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supposed to investigate as to whether or

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not there's a basis to bring an action

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in front of the

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ethics commission I advise the

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complainin that this was the opinion

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that was given by the outside legal

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counsel the response I got was I

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expected as much and in the letter I had

219
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said I was going to give this person 28

220
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days to file a response if they were a

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disagreement as to that legal

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determination the response again I got

223
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back was that's what I expected I didn't

224
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know how to take that was I to take that

225
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as being I expected they were going to

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find a way not to deal with it or I

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expected that was going to be the result

228
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because that's what my own that's what

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this person's own independent legal

230
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investigation had determined so I let it

231
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run the 28 days and right about the time

232
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28 days was running then I started

233
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trying to get a hold of Toby so I could

234
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come and report to the Commission in

235
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this fashion as to what was occurring

236
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because again you know there wasn't any

237
00:13:51,510 --> 00:13:53,550
obligation to let the members of the

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body know anything until we knew where

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we were at with the investigation

240
00:14:00,950 --> 00:14:03,020
unfortunately our ability to communicate

241
00:14:03,020 --> 00:14:05,310
we were having difficulties until I

242
00:14:05,310 --> 00:14:06,960
tried the old-fashioned thing of call

243
00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:17,880
nor house phone well again the the

244
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:23,670
initial complaint that was withdrawn was

245
00:14:23,670 --> 00:14:30,990
filed January 11th the whistleblower

246
00:14:30,990 --> 00:14:35,350
complaint was filed February 1st

247
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so some of the delay was Andy Guinness

248
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is I guess this is kind of a learning

249
00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:44,600
experience again causing us to want to

250
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,480
discuss things not only amongst this

251
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,880
body but also after this group has had

252
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:54,470
an opportunity to discuss it but also to

253
00:14:54,470 --> 00:14:58,340
discuss it with the chairman and others

254
00:14:58,340 --> 00:15:03,700
at the county board a process to where

255
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:06,740
we can expedite it as far as getting the

256
00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:09,130
outside legal counsel if it's necessary

257
00:15:09,130 --> 00:15:11,830
because you know this initially was

258
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phone calls to chairman wheeler and then

259
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the process of getting somebody who

260
00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:26,900
retained that it all took some some time

261
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of that and and I guess I I need to note

262
00:15:33,140 --> 00:15:38,480
the fact that there were some other

263
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allegations contained in this complaint

264
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that also were directed toward the

265
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chairman so it was even difficult having

266
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that kind of conversation County George

267
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chairman of County Board Chairman yeah

268
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not yourself thank you sorry did leave

269
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that open-ended yes there were some

270
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allegations contained in the complaint

271
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and the whistleblower action that were

272
00:16:07,580 --> 00:16:12,140
directed toward chairman wheeler again

273
00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:14,570
another reason why I felt that it just

274
00:16:14,570 --> 00:16:18,650
should have been completely outside the

275
00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:20,240
state's attorney's office as far as the

276
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,030
assistance the legal assistance that was

277
00:16:23,030 --> 00:16:25,940
given but again even that made it

278
00:16:25,940 --> 00:16:27,680
difficult for me having to have that

279
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,150
conversation with him and since he's a

280
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:31,370
subject matter of what contained in the

281
00:16:31,370 --> 00:16:34,010
complaint so as it's something that we

282
00:16:34,010 --> 00:16:38,670
need to maybe discuss as to how can we

283
00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:44,050
create a process to where outside legal

284
00:16:44,060 --> 00:16:47,850
assistance can be procured in those type

285
00:16:47,850 --> 00:16:51,750
of touchy situations hey you know quite

286
00:16:51,750 --> 00:16:54,060
admittedly the the ordinance of that

287
00:16:54,060 --> 00:16:56,699
we're dealing with I know when we were

288
00:16:56,699 --> 00:16:58,139
looking at the ordinance when it was

289
00:16:58,139 --> 00:17:01,050
being drafted the complaint was involved

290
00:17:01,050 --> 00:17:10,090
with the drafting of the ordinance so I

291
00:17:10,100 --> 00:17:12,510
the person is fully aware as far as what

292
00:17:12,510 --> 00:17:15,209
the contents are but I think at this

293
00:17:15,209 --> 00:17:17,309
point in time based on the

294
00:17:17,309 --> 00:17:21,809
recommendation from there and the

295
00:17:21,809 --> 00:17:26,130
research from the attorney I feel that

296
00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:28,140
the fact first of all that she the

297
00:17:28,140 --> 00:17:29,940
person would through the complaint and

298
00:17:29,940 --> 00:17:34,440
then secondly based on the analysis and

299
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:39,230
legal opinion of the outside attorney

300
00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:43,010
stating that we don't have jurisdiction

301
00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:45,780
it's my determination that there my

302
00:17:45,780 --> 00:17:49,679
recommendation I'm sorry that notice

303
00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:51,590
should be sent to the person saying

304
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:53,340
specification is closed no further

305
00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:56,820
action is going to be taken well I think

306
00:17:56,820 --> 00:18:00,270
mr. wounds woman you did exceptional

307
00:18:00,270 --> 00:18:03,410
work on this it was a difficult

308
00:18:03,410 --> 00:18:08,850
complaint to start with and the outside

309
00:18:08,850 --> 00:18:14,070
legal advice was very good and what I

310
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:18,270
think in our case in our responsibility

311
00:18:18,270 --> 00:18:20,280
would be if there was any question about

312
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,100
this to continue on but there doesn't

313
00:18:23,100 --> 00:18:26,070
seem to be any question about the

314
00:18:26,070 --> 00:18:31,470
validity of the resolutions that were

315
00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:38,030
drawn you know yeah well

316
00:18:38,030 --> 00:18:42,000
here's the next sticky wicket did okay

317
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:42,660
I'm sorry

318
00:18:42,660 --> 00:18:45,809
can't get comfortable it's ticking Ricky

319
00:18:45,809 --> 00:18:47,850
that wicked that came in yesterday

320
00:18:47,850 --> 00:18:49,410
afternoon of course I didn't see it

321
00:18:49,410 --> 00:18:54,540
until about 7:30 8 o'clock last night

322
00:18:54,540 --> 00:18:55,890
when I finally sat in front of the

323
00:18:55,890 --> 00:19:04,470
computer the complaint advised that that

324
00:19:04,470 --> 00:19:05,700
they had learned from a reporter at The

325
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:08,309
Daily Journal that the county does not

326
00:19:08,309 --> 00:19:11,190
believe the ethics complaint I file were

327
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:12,720
closed I guess it's a learning

328
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,059
experience for everyone to that end when

329
00:19:15,059 --> 00:19:16,530
the committee does closed the complaints

330
00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:18,179
due to the lack of jurisdiction I want

331
00:19:18,179 --> 00:19:19,770
to exercise my right under the ordinance

332
00:19:19,770 --> 00:19:21,420
to have the ethics advisory refer the

333
00:19:21,420 --> 00:19:23,010
complaints to the appropriate agency I

334
00:19:23,010 --> 00:19:24,420
don't know that that would be the US

335
00:19:24,420 --> 00:19:25,679
Attorney for the Central District of

336
00:19:25,679 --> 00:19:30,510
Illinois because of the alleged misuse

337
00:19:30,510 --> 00:19:34,170
of public funds by state official or to

338
00:19:34,170 --> 00:19:35,910
the Attorney General or the office of

339
00:19:35,910 --> 00:19:39,150
the executive inspector general or all

340
00:19:39,150 --> 00:19:41,070
three to determine the jurisdiction but

341
00:19:41,070 --> 00:19:42,540
I wanted to give you the heads-up that I

342
00:19:42,540 --> 00:19:50,530
will not be requesting them so again

343
00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:51,960
here's where we're at

344
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,420
you have an individual that files

345
00:19:54,420 --> 00:19:57,840
complaint would you the complaint you

346
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:02,429
didn't have an individual that files a

347
00:20:02,429 --> 00:20:08,160
whistleblower complaint but we don't

348
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:14,010
have any jurisdiction on it are we then

349
00:20:14,010 --> 00:20:16,740
obligated or is the Commission obligated

350
00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:20,480
to send that on someplace else

351
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,390
well she feels that that word should go

352
00:20:24,390 --> 00:20:27,030
why does she now do that I guess there

353
00:20:27,030 --> 00:20:28,740
is a provision under the ordinance that

354
00:20:28,740 --> 00:20:32,460
you know suggest that if the

355
00:20:32,460 --> 00:20:34,320
determination is made that we don't have

356
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,679
authority then I should refer to this

357
00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:41,490
agency here's the difficulty again it

358
00:20:41,490 --> 00:20:43,620
puts me in this position I first of all

359
00:20:43,620 --> 00:20:45,330
would have to do all the investigation

360
00:20:45,330 --> 00:20:48,000
to make a legal determination that there

361
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,400
is a basis for

362
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,770
complaint to be filed against you know

363
00:20:52,770 --> 00:20:56,880
with another entity again something else

364
00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,170
I think we need to look at as to the

365
00:21:01,170 --> 00:21:03,330
contents of the ordinance what would we

366
00:21:03,330 --> 00:21:05,160
be obliged to to make that determination

367
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,430
I mean if she is of the complaintant and

368
00:21:08,430 --> 00:21:10,560
they're saying that this is where it

369
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,740
should go then we I think our only

370
00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:17,820
decision is do we put it in an envelope

371
00:21:17,820 --> 00:21:20,850
and send it to them or do we tell her to

372
00:21:20,850 --> 00:21:21,390
do it

373
00:21:21,390 --> 00:21:25,890
what no yeah but I know you don't want

374
00:21:25,890 --> 00:21:30,660
to spend the time or have the feeling

375
00:21:30,660 --> 00:21:32,640
that you can be responsible for that

376
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:39,390
kind of illegal investigation I don't

377
00:21:39,390 --> 00:21:45,410
have the wherewithal whether it be

378
00:21:45,410 --> 00:21:51,780
licensed legal research tools etc and I

379
00:21:51,780 --> 00:21:54,150
guess quite frankly the time that's

380
00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:56,370
right and is the first complaint that

381
00:21:56,370 --> 00:22:01,140
she withdrew that's sort of a moot

382
00:22:01,140 --> 00:22:05,580
question because she did not refile it

383
00:22:05,580 --> 00:22:10,020
right the contents of what were in there

384
00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:13,970
most of what was in there was also

385
00:22:13,970 --> 00:22:16,590
contained within the whistleblower so

386
00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:26,520
she sort of did refile right III guess

387
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,110
my thoughts on it is if there would be

388
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:32,820
an obligation on our part to take

389
00:22:32,820 --> 00:22:40,920
further action with it then any time let

390
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,510
me let me start over again

391
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:55,850
if a person files a complaint and it's

392
00:22:55,850 --> 00:23:00,860
rejected and let's say there's no basis

393
00:23:00,860 --> 00:23:04,370
to it whatsoever but then that person

394
00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:06,230
contacting you say I want this referred

395
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:08,750
to the appropriate agency that then

396
00:23:08,750 --> 00:23:11,660
places us each time to have to research

397
00:23:11,660 --> 00:23:15,260
everything and I don't understand why we

398
00:23:15,260 --> 00:23:19,250
would have to research it well it's if

399
00:23:19,250 --> 00:23:21,530
it needs to go to another agency they

400
00:23:21,530 --> 00:23:23,660
need to do these well that's the problem

401
00:23:23,660 --> 00:23:28,680
that the our ordinance right now and I

402
00:23:28,690 --> 00:23:32,570
basically suggest that we should refer

403
00:23:32,570 --> 00:23:35,840
if we make the determination that there

404
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,040
is a legitimate complaint yeah a basis

405
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:41,720
for some type of further action that

406
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:48,840
should be taken by someone and again

407
00:23:48,850 --> 00:23:50,780
that's something we're going to have to

408
00:23:50,780 --> 00:23:53,000
look at in that and when we redress it

409
00:23:53,000 --> 00:24:02,550
in that but right now I have no

410
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,090
documentation from outside legal counsel

411
00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:08,590
that says that there was any basis to

412
00:24:08,590 --> 00:24:11,030
the allegation of the complaint

413
00:24:11,030 --> 00:24:15,350
therefore I have you know even if if

414
00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:19,430
there is just again the decision to us

415
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:22,430
was based upon jurisdiction you know

416
00:24:22,430 --> 00:24:23,450
that we just don't have jurisdiction

417
00:24:23,450 --> 00:24:29,900
therefore we can't proceed the outside

418
00:24:29,900 --> 00:24:34,630
little council was not requested to

419
00:24:34,630 --> 00:24:40,570
research

420
00:24:40,580 --> 00:24:43,620
whether or not there is any validity or

421
00:24:43,620 --> 00:24:44,309
not

422
00:24:44,309 --> 00:24:47,130
to the allegations of the whistleblower

423
00:24:47,130 --> 00:24:50,370
complaint therefore we don't have any

424
00:24:50,370 --> 00:24:52,710
basis you know I don't have anything to

425
00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:55,110
convey to you that suggests that there

426
00:24:55,110 --> 00:24:58,529
is some viability or there's some

427
00:24:58,529 --> 00:25:00,509
validity to this complaint I don't have

428
00:25:00,509 --> 00:25:02,669
anything at all like that to suggest one

429
00:25:02,669 --> 00:25:05,250
way or the other that basically says you

430
00:25:05,250 --> 00:25:08,610
know I think there's something there or

431
00:25:08,610 --> 00:25:10,409
I can't say I don't think there's

432
00:25:10,409 --> 00:25:11,759
something there but I don't have

433
00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:14,039
anything at all to basically give to you

434
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:16,820
to make a determination of referral and

435
00:25:16,820 --> 00:25:19,830
basically if I remember correctly all it

436
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:26,090
is in the complaint is this listing of

437
00:25:26,090 --> 00:25:30,269
possible problems correct and did they

438
00:25:30,269 --> 00:25:33,000
not have if I remember correctly did she

439
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,850
now have some contact with another

440
00:25:35,850 --> 00:25:39,210
agency that would be County Department

441
00:25:39,210 --> 00:25:41,210
that would be involved in that

442
00:25:41,210 --> 00:25:46,830
well the whistleblower complaint was

443
00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:48,539
filed in the auditor's office if there's

444
00:25:48,539 --> 00:25:50,460
a misappropriation of funds that is

445
00:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,970
taking place then presumably that would

446
00:25:53,970 --> 00:25:55,230
be something the auditor would be

447
00:25:55,230 --> 00:25:56,850
looking at well that's what I'm saying

448
00:25:56,850 --> 00:26:02,580
ma'am if they've already seen it maybe

449
00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:07,460
they need to discuss that with us oh

450
00:26:07,460 --> 00:26:10,679
okay well but we don't seem to have a

451
00:26:10,679 --> 00:26:12,779
jurisdiction anyway because she's not an

452
00:26:12,779 --> 00:26:16,389
employee correct

453
00:26:16,399 --> 00:26:20,009
so I guess my perspective at this point

454
00:26:20,009 --> 00:26:25,409
in time is that a communication would be

455
00:26:25,409 --> 00:26:33,570
sent to her advising her that you know

456
00:26:33,570 --> 00:26:36,330
because of the lack of jurisdiction no

457
00:26:36,330 --> 00:26:46,440
further action be taken and that we have

458
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:47,639
nothing to base referral to another

459
00:26:47,639 --> 00:26:52,120
agency

460
00:26:52,130 --> 00:26:55,460
why did we think there's a Mary or can

461
00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:59,320
it be it so we're just passing it on

462
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:04,490
without an opinion or if we passed on

463
00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:06,620
we're wasting people's time I think

464
00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:13,430
there is not and again I I think that's

465
00:27:13,430 --> 00:27:17,660
the the difficulty that could arise is

466
00:27:17,660 --> 00:27:23,460
if every time a complaint is received

467
00:27:23,470 --> 00:27:27,200
and we're asked to pass upon to another

468
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:34,820
entity these are not some type of

469
00:27:34,820 --> 00:27:41,000
requirement that we have a basis or a

470
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,340
reason why we're referring it to this

471
00:27:43,340 --> 00:27:46,220
other entity which would require this

472
00:27:46,220 --> 00:27:49,460
legal delving then you know you're not

473
00:27:49,460 --> 00:27:53,810
interested in doing or probably legal to

474
00:27:53,810 --> 00:28:00,020
do I don't know if any of it that I did

475
00:28:00,020 --> 00:28:01,700
right now would be for my own personal

476
00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:05,480
curiosity in in that that you know I

477
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,150
write I would pass it on to anyone else

478
00:28:08,150 --> 00:28:12,170
and that well if I just it seemed that

479
00:28:12,170 --> 00:28:17,360
also there's some area of choosing in

480
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:21,500
this particular thing as to what was to

481
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:26,000
be done with the funds you know yeah I

482
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,820
and again that's that's a whole issue

483
00:28:28,820 --> 00:28:37,250
that I'm not personally wearing that but

484
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:39,470
you know you hear things through the the

485
00:28:39,470 --> 00:28:40,880
grapevine that you know there has been

486
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,200
maybe some discussions that have taken

487
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,180
place about these things in the past and

488
00:28:44,180 --> 00:28:46,730
that but oh right right

489
00:28:46,730 --> 00:28:54,580
she did say them you know I

490
00:28:54,590 --> 00:28:57,900
from my prior years from sitting up

491
00:28:57,900 --> 00:28:59,580
where you're sitting at the current time

492
00:28:59,580 --> 00:29:02,250
in the seven years on this board I know

493
00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:04,950
there are certain parameters about how

494
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:15,200
different funds can be used and you know

495
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,580
dick Winkle who was the auditor at that

496
00:29:17,580 --> 00:29:21,180
time that you know was very you know

497
00:29:21,180 --> 00:29:24,000
every TIA to be crossed every I had to

498
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,850
be not a net cetera et cetera than that

499
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:29,340
I don't know where things are I mean

500
00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:33,900
that's well five to thirty years ago so

501
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:36,810
I I don't know you know things change as

502
00:29:36,810 --> 00:29:39,450
far as the rules the regulations case

503
00:29:39,450 --> 00:29:41,910
law that may be interpreted things that

504
00:29:41,910 --> 00:29:44,670
succumb I'm not in a position to say

505
00:29:44,670 --> 00:29:46,380
yeah I think there's something here or

506
00:29:46,380 --> 00:29:48,630
there isn't because I haven't researched

507
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:51,420
or looked at it and again I'm not in

508
00:29:51,420 --> 00:29:53,310
that position to give that type of

509
00:29:53,310 --> 00:29:57,270
recommendation to this this group well

510
00:29:57,270 --> 00:29:59,250
and that's also saying that we don't

511
00:29:59,250 --> 00:30:02,450
know as you are saying exactly how

512
00:30:02,450 --> 00:30:09,330
discretionary funds can be used and well

513
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:11,820
and again as to the question of referral

514
00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:16,590
and just trying to look at the overall

515
00:30:16,590 --> 00:30:18,990
picture as to how to proceed in the

516
00:30:18,990 --> 00:30:23,040
future do we want to be in a position or

517
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,170
does this Commission want to be in a

518
00:30:25,170 --> 00:30:27,150
position where somebody can raise an

519
00:30:27,150 --> 00:30:34,710
allegation however general or how

520
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:42,630
specific but with no maybe no legal

521
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:46,050
authority specifically cited but if

522
00:30:46,050 --> 00:30:50,340
there is legal authority cited this

523
00:30:50,340 --> 00:30:52,110
Commission doesn't know one way or the

524
00:30:52,110 --> 00:30:56,610
other without legal counsel is there

525
00:30:56,610 --> 00:30:58,600
some ability to that

526
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,980
it leads me back to the situation where

527
00:31:03,990 --> 00:31:07,630
the Commission I think whenever there

528
00:31:07,630 --> 00:31:09,460
are complaints that are filed are going

529
00:31:09,460 --> 00:31:11,799
to need the assistance of legal counsel

530
00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:13,990
at times which under the ordinance is

531
00:31:13,990 --> 00:31:15,010
normally going to be the state's

532
00:31:15,010 --> 00:31:17,530
attorney's office right this situation

533
00:31:17,530 --> 00:31:20,460
is because of the parties involved

534
00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:23,440
created the dilemma to where the state's

535
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,240
attorney's office really couldn't be

536
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,370
directly involved right

537
00:31:27,370 --> 00:31:29,530
and again it's food for thought of

538
00:31:29,530 --> 00:31:31,150
something we need to address in the

539
00:31:31,150 --> 00:31:33,610
future on we have to consider if we need

540
00:31:33,610 --> 00:31:36,250
to hire and it would be probably on a

541
00:31:36,250 --> 00:31:41,049
hiring basis legal advice that could

542
00:31:41,049 --> 00:31:47,950
become an expensive thing I mean five

543
00:31:47,950 --> 00:31:49,809
dollars an hour or something at least

544
00:31:49,809 --> 00:31:54,460
you know I guess I could say you get

545
00:31:54,460 --> 00:31:55,240
what you pay for

546
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,730
yeah Lenny SEC said that often now we

547
00:32:00,730 --> 00:32:10,450
are typing or so are dating ourselves is

548
00:32:10,450 --> 00:32:17,110
that what we're trying to avoid we think

549
00:32:17,110 --> 00:32:19,230
it's unnecessary we did it in this case

550
00:32:19,230 --> 00:32:22,120
then anybody in the future would expect

551
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,020
the same well that's part of it but I I

552
00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:30,690
guess I'm thinking from your perspective

553
00:32:30,690 --> 00:32:34,710
do you want to be perceived as an entity

554
00:32:34,710 --> 00:32:39,940
that willy nilly hands things off

555
00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:42,549
without really having a basis for you

556
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:44,860
know dude when if you're going to be

557
00:32:44,860 --> 00:32:47,890
sending in a letter to the Attorney

558
00:32:47,890 --> 00:32:52,179
General or a federal prosecutor do you

559
00:32:52,179 --> 00:32:56,950
want to get in a

560
00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:59,460
be perceived as somebody that just

561
00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:01,620
constantly is sending stuff that you

562
00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:04,230
know they're gonna to almost every time

563
00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:06,990
that it comes into their office or do

564
00:33:06,990 --> 00:33:09,570
you want to be perceived as it entity

565
00:33:09,570 --> 00:33:11,730
that if they've taken the time to send

566
00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:14,340
this to me is something that we need to

567
00:33:14,340 --> 00:33:18,630
look at but that also says that as the

568
00:33:18,630 --> 00:33:21,090
complaints come in you do make a

569
00:33:21,090 --> 00:33:22,980
judgment about whether or not you should

570
00:33:22,980 --> 00:33:26,880
proceed in investigating you know and I

571
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,910
would have a tendency to think that it

572
00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:33,270
would be more often than that something

573
00:33:33,270 --> 00:33:34,650
that you could ask the state's

574
00:33:34,650 --> 00:33:37,350
attorney's office to do because it would

575
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:41,900
not be involved

576
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:46,169
normal scheme of things the way I

577
00:33:46,169 --> 00:33:49,080
perceive how we all operate together is

578
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,890
the complaint is received I receive that

579
00:33:52,890 --> 00:33:55,950
I investigate it I you know it's

580
00:33:55,950 --> 00:33:58,799
different than doing legal research on

581
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:01,110
it if there's issues that arise during

582
00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:03,150
the course of my investigation then I

583
00:34:03,150 --> 00:34:04,620
would contact the state's attorney's

584
00:34:04,620 --> 00:34:07,320
office and say this is something I need

585
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,980
some guidance on as to I think as a

586
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:15,639
legal issue not an investigative issue

587
00:34:15,649 --> 00:34:19,440
then once all that is compiled together

588
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,840
then through the looking at the

589
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,139
ordinance it's a question of sending it

590
00:34:25,139 --> 00:34:29,010
to or presenting it to this body my

591
00:34:29,010 --> 00:34:31,109
recommendation as to whether or not you

592
00:34:31,109 --> 00:34:34,260
should proceed or not proceed one of the

593
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:39,450
words that they use in the our little

594
00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:43,679
law is gross you know so now do we say

595
00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:45,510
well if you're a whistleblower and

596
00:34:45,510 --> 00:34:49,109
you're saying that some officer in the

597
00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:56,520
county spent a hundred dollars in an

598
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,310
area to think it was proper is that

599
00:34:59,310 --> 00:35:03,150
gross or do we say we would look at it

600
00:35:03,150 --> 00:35:05,280
if it was going to be forty thousand

601
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:06,930
dollars or it was going to be a hundred

602
00:35:06,930 --> 00:35:08,790
thousand you know I think maybe that's

603
00:35:08,790 --> 00:35:12,910
something we should just

604
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,630
and it's two changes in it to be more

605
00:35:15,630 --> 00:35:23,760
specific which might help right and once

606
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,900
we get by this you know again the next

607
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:29,820
item on the agenda is discussion as far

608
00:35:29,820 --> 00:35:34,590
as potential changes which quite

609
00:35:34,590 --> 00:35:38,130
honestly we're going to need the state's

610
00:35:38,130 --> 00:35:40,110
attorney's office to be evolved with him

611
00:35:40,110 --> 00:35:42,360
but I guess you know and I kind of

612
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,710
anticipated they might have been here

613
00:35:43,710 --> 00:35:45,420
but then again once I saw they weren't

614
00:35:45,420 --> 00:35:47,460
here I probably understand why they

615
00:35:47,460 --> 00:35:49,620
aren't here it's you know they probably

616
00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:51,330
wanted to keep that hands-off approach

617
00:35:51,330 --> 00:35:57,270
but yeah I understand but eventually you

618
00:35:57,270 --> 00:35:58,650
know today yet I still want to go

619
00:35:58,650 --> 00:36:01,260
through areas that I feel that things

620
00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:02,790
need to be addressed and we may have to

621
00:36:02,790 --> 00:36:04,560
set up another meeting where then the

622
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,380
state's attorney can come in they have

623
00:36:07,380 --> 00:36:09,420
the discussion with us and how many

624
00:36:09,420 --> 00:36:11,670
ordinance revisions do you really think

625
00:36:11,670 --> 00:36:13,560
there needs to be or do they need to be

626
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:18,450
a general classification a definition is

627
00:36:18,450 --> 00:36:22,680
to you know whistleblower on a money

628
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,920
basis what are we talking about well

629
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,990
yeah I mean if we could maybe see that -

630
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:30,390
the next one yeah I guess if to the next

631
00:36:30,390 --> 00:36:33,450
you know what I like to do is just see

632
00:36:33,450 --> 00:36:35,700
what the Commission's thoughts are or if

633
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:41,160
you want to take formal action on it as

634
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,280
far as well my personal opinion is that

635
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,590
since we've been invited by outside

636
00:36:46,590 --> 00:36:52,410
legal a lawyer you know who seems seem

637
00:36:52,410 --> 00:36:54,360
to know what he was doing and whatnot

638
00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:01,850
that this particular complaint is that

639
00:37:01,850 --> 00:37:05,040
germane for us because it was made by

640
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,740
somebody who is not employed and that

641
00:37:07,740 --> 00:37:11,670
seems to for us end the situation the

642
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:13,920
question just becomes then do we send it

643
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,569
on right right

644
00:37:16,569 --> 00:37:18,710
would have the right to do it on their

645
00:37:18,710 --> 00:37:21,789
own right they could say we definitely

646
00:37:21,789 --> 00:37:24,529
and this person is knowledgeable and

647
00:37:24,529 --> 00:37:34,279
long yeah well I would well I think you

648
00:37:34,279 --> 00:37:35,599
probably need to address two things is

649
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:38,539
one make a determination as to whether

650
00:37:38,539 --> 00:37:41,630
or not any further action should be

651
00:37:41,630 --> 00:37:44,510
taken on the complaint that's one aspect

652
00:37:44,510 --> 00:37:46,760
of it and the other aspect of it is

653
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:48,529
there going to be referral to any other

654
00:37:48,529 --> 00:37:53,630
entity let's address that first issue if

655
00:37:53,630 --> 00:37:58,460
you want to make a motion determining

656
00:37:58,460 --> 00:38:00,109
whether or not we should do any further

657
00:38:00,109 --> 00:38:07,920
work on that particular complaint wait

658
00:38:07,930 --> 00:38:11,059
for their work especially given the fact

659
00:38:11,059 --> 00:38:13,849
that there's been competent outside

660
00:38:13,849 --> 00:38:23,910
legal advice is there a second to that

661
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:26,420
we need the second before we have a

662
00:38:26,420 --> 00:38:35,299
discussion yeah Mike was this person a

663
00:38:35,299 --> 00:38:38,539
former employee or no well first of all

664
00:38:38,539 --> 00:38:41,809
I guess you you want a second we do we

665
00:38:41,809 --> 00:38:43,579
need a second before we can do that I'll

666
00:38:43,579 --> 00:38:47,900
second the motion came the question the

667
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:51,109
question was was this person a former

668
00:38:51,109 --> 00:39:03,950
employee or never an employee former employee all right any

669
00:39:03,950 --> 00:39:07,160
more discussion questions does everyone

670
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:11,769
understand the motion that we would end

671
00:39:11,769 --> 00:39:16,519
our action on this complaint based on

672
00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:18,680
the fact that we do not have

673
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,160
jurisdiction as given that information

674
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,600
given to us by competent legal

675
00:39:26,610 --> 00:39:34,710
all those in favor say aye all opposed nay

676
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:38,380
okay the eyes have it so we will be done

677
00:39:38,380 --> 00:39:41,770
handling this unless it comes back in

678
00:39:41,770 --> 00:40:08,980
our dreams right now the second issue as

679
00:40:08,980 --> 00:40:11,290
to whether or not we should refer this

680
00:40:11,290 --> 00:40:17,620
complaint to another office as was

681
00:40:17,620 --> 00:40:21,230
suggested by the complaint

682
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:31,280
anyone got any we would need a motion to

683
00:40:31,290 --> 00:40:35,950
- not - if you want it that way or if

684
00:40:35,950 --> 00:40:38,500
you if your motion is to not then you

685
00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:43,900
have to vote yes I'll make a motion that

686
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:47,710
we do not refer this on to an additional

687
00:40:47,710 --> 00:40:53,730
agency is there a second second

688
00:40:53,730 --> 00:40:59,220
mr. coy that we do not refer this

689
00:40:59,220 --> 00:41:04,240
complaint to any other agency any

690
00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:11,080
questions discussion all those in favor

691
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:19,200
of this ordinance motion motion aye aye

692
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:23,210
any opposition

693
00:41:23,220 --> 00:41:28,060
all right the according to our vote with

694
00:41:28,060 --> 00:41:31,180
them we will not send this particular

695
00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:34,840
complaint on to any other agency at this

696
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:39,970
point in time well and I guess I'll

697
00:41:39,970 --> 00:41:43,119
state openly I will convey this to the

698
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:48,310
complainant by email this is the other

699
00:41:48,310 --> 00:41:50,980
difficulty with through all the years

700
00:41:50,980 --> 00:41:54,420
I've always had either a secretary or a

701
00:41:54,420 --> 00:42:01,900
clerk working with me yeah I the person

702
00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:04,150
has responded in that fashion and

703
00:42:04,150 --> 00:42:05,830
acknowledge receipt of things in that

704
00:42:05,830 --> 00:42:08,920
fashion so I will advise the individual

705
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:14,080
in that fashion but again with that

706
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,600
being done as we segue into the next

707
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,619
item on the agenda if we can I'm gonna

708
00:42:20,619 --> 00:42:24,460
need some assistance probably a time

709
00:42:24,460 --> 00:42:26,260
probably for communication as you stand

710
00:42:26,260 --> 00:42:28,210
there and then maybe I don't know that

711
00:42:28,210 --> 00:42:32,470
maybe somebody in administrative office

712
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:35,800
or state's attorney's office or wherever

713
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,070
that that well the next item on the

714
00:42:39,070 --> 00:42:42,580
agenda is the discussion as to ordinance

715
00:42:42,580 --> 00:42:51,310
revisions so let me go through some of

716
00:42:51,310 --> 00:42:53,560
the things that I found as a result of

717
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,280
this well things I guess maybe we need

718
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:02,590
to note and then maybe my suggestion

719
00:43:02,590 --> 00:43:04,210
would be is to set up a meeting and

720
00:43:04,210 --> 00:43:06,940
maybe they could be conveyed over to the

721
00:43:06,940 --> 00:43:09,160
state's attorney's office on the issue

722
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,210
of ordinance revisions and then maybe

723
00:43:13,210 --> 00:43:17,710
subsequently set up in a meeting to

724
00:43:17,710 --> 00:43:19,960
discuss them further but at least give

725
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,150
whoever would it be assigned this task

726
00:43:22,150 --> 00:43:24,010
the opportunity to to look at them a

727
00:43:24,010 --> 00:43:25,810
little bit I think that's right too and

728
00:43:25,810 --> 00:43:31,330
I think that we can as individuals look

729
00:43:31,330 --> 00:43:33,520
at the ordinance and see things that we

730
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,500
meet now after having been through this

731
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:36,490
process

732
00:43:36,490 --> 00:43:39,790
might understand why we might need

733
00:43:39,790 --> 00:43:49,780
changes well here's the first if you

734
00:43:49,780 --> 00:43:52,030
look at it you know you have Division

735
00:43:52,030 --> 00:43:57,300
one definitions then you go into

736
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:00,400
division - you have prohibited political

737
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,970
activities and all the sub parts and

738
00:44:03,970 --> 00:44:06,490
then you have Division three gift ban

739
00:44:06,490 --> 00:44:13,280
and several different sub parts mm-hmm

740
00:44:13,290 --> 00:44:16,990
what else is there there's nothing else

741
00:44:16,990 --> 00:44:20,850
that we really you know it's basically

742
00:44:20,850 --> 00:44:24,070
apparently the way it's drafted now to

743
00:44:24,070 --> 00:44:26,710
monitor political activity of

744
00:44:26,710 --> 00:44:29,770
individuals that are members of the

745
00:44:29,770 --> 00:44:32,890
county employee well what is is there a

746
00:44:32,890 --> 00:44:36,490
Bamm county employees taking part in

747
00:44:36,490 --> 00:44:38,980
political activities it's just basically

748
00:44:38,980 --> 00:44:41,740
during compensated time and things of

749
00:44:41,740 --> 00:44:44,380
that right so I mean there are a lot of

750
00:44:44,380 --> 00:44:49,270
specifics about it here and they're

751
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:54,480
specific as far as gifts there's some

752
00:44:54,480 --> 00:45:00,940
specifics about you know so what I'm

753
00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:02,920
sayin you know women complaining about

754
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,030
being treated poorly and no well I mean

755
00:45:06,030 --> 00:45:08,590
sexual harassment I there's not a

756
00:45:08,590 --> 00:45:11,260
session on that there's not so well

757
00:45:11,260 --> 00:45:14,890
nobody ever did that in the county well

758
00:45:14,890 --> 00:45:23,850
I guess volunteering which one is Fiji

759
00:45:23,850 --> 00:45:28,840
okay the county the county does have an

760
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,760
adopted sexual harassment policy and

761
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,920
it's outside of this process because it

762
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,490
becomes a human resource issue so they

763
00:45:36,490 --> 00:45:38,230
make the complaints and so again I'm not

764
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:39,490
saying you don't want to address it I'm

765
00:45:39,490 --> 00:45:41,020
just letting you know that that's we do

766
00:45:41,020 --> 00:45:44,460
have something on file and adopted

767
00:45:44,460 --> 00:45:47,040
it was just had to be redone because of

768
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,220
the state law changing so we chose

769
00:45:49,220 --> 00:45:52,550
account II has a process for somebody

770
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:56,520
yes - where do they go to file that they

771
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,550
go to human resources and then if the HR

772
00:45:59,550 --> 00:46:01,080
is not available they file it through

773
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,580
the Chairman's office and then I

774
00:46:02,580 --> 00:46:04,740
disperse that to Human Resources and to

775
00:46:04,740 --> 00:46:08,280
the state's attorney very good thank you

776
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:12,060
mr. chairman wheeler but again the the

777
00:46:12,060 --> 00:46:14,310
issue is right now as I look at this

778
00:46:14,310 --> 00:46:16,470
ordinance there's only two things

779
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:18,210
specifically contained in it there was

780
00:46:18,210 --> 00:46:23,040
to deal with right which is again

781
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,200
allegations of political activity by

782
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,200
employees you know worst case scenario

783
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:33,380
during time of employment or during work

784
00:46:33,380 --> 00:46:36,660
the other thing is a question of gifts

785
00:46:36,660 --> 00:46:41,490
that receipt you know some of us working

786
00:46:41,490 --> 00:46:46,130
in a department receiving monetary

787
00:46:46,130 --> 00:46:49,820
entitlements what about this particular

788
00:46:49,820 --> 00:46:52,290
allegation of misspending of money how

789
00:46:52,290 --> 00:46:53,820
does that well that would be in the

790
00:46:53,820 --> 00:46:56,690
whistleblower but okay looking through

791
00:46:56,690 --> 00:46:59,550
this ordinance at the current time I

792
00:46:59,550 --> 00:47:01,740
don't see anything that specifically

793
00:47:01,740 --> 00:47:05,190
puts it under the auspices of the Ethics

794
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:10,440
Commission so that's another issue out

795
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,350
there that again you know you have the

796
00:47:13,350 --> 00:47:14,550
one section of the ordinance that talks

797
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:16,800
about those two specific things then you

798
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,390
have an ordinance whistle blower

799
00:47:18,390 --> 00:47:20,010
ordinance but it doesn't say

800
00:47:20,010 --> 00:47:23,190
specifically that it shows who the

801
00:47:23,190 --> 00:47:27,180
report is to be filed with but again let

802
00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:40,690
me go back

803
00:47:40,700 --> 00:47:42,499
yeah it talked about being filed with

804
00:47:42,499 --> 00:47:47,480
these other individuals like the auditor

805
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:56,869
and right the auditor to do okay well it

806
00:47:56,869 --> 00:47:58,009
says all officers employees should be

807
00:47:58,009 --> 00:47:59,450
obligated cooperate during the course of

808
00:47:59,450 --> 00:48:00,829
an investigation and comply with the

809
00:48:00,829 --> 00:48:03,049
request for information from the Ethics

810
00:48:03,049 --> 00:48:06,349
Commission and state's attorney I guess

811
00:48:06,349 --> 00:48:08,210
it kind of suggests that it's in our

812
00:48:08,210 --> 00:48:09,529
bailiwick but it doesn't say

813
00:48:09,529 --> 00:48:11,690
specifically that all complaints should

814
00:48:11,690 --> 00:48:14,990
go you know should follow the processes

815
00:48:14,990 --> 00:48:19,940
of the Ethics Commission ordinance and

816
00:48:19,940 --> 00:48:21,470
you know maybe it's just some language

817
00:48:21,470 --> 00:48:29,370
like that may specifically put it there

818
00:48:29,380 --> 00:48:32,240
well I think the other item Mattoon like

819
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:37,079
you said about the assistance to you

820
00:48:37,089 --> 00:48:40,339
again if there's neccessity of

821
00:48:40,339 --> 00:48:43,130
independent legal counsel and as far as

822
00:48:43,130 --> 00:48:46,249
communications that may need to be sent

823
00:48:46,249 --> 00:48:55,880
by the ethics adviser which is I say

824
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,239
that again advisor and I I sent this out

825
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,489
way back when we started working on this

826
00:49:01,489 --> 00:49:06,160
that I had difficulty with the

827
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,359
designation as advisor because again

828
00:49:08,359 --> 00:49:14,450
that suggests that I'm going to be

829
00:49:14,450 --> 00:49:16,940
advising as far as legal issues in that

830
00:49:16,940 --> 00:49:20,660
I guess we call you well I you know I

831
00:49:20,660 --> 00:49:22,779
don't feel like I put an administrator

832
00:49:22,779 --> 00:49:26,569
investigator office I actually officer

833
00:49:26,569 --> 00:49:30,339
you know ethics officer you know

834
00:49:30,339 --> 00:49:32,809
something otherwise something that they

835
00:49:32,809 --> 00:49:36,910
said I thought in one of maybe the first

836
00:49:36,910 --> 00:49:39,529
copy of the Ethics Commission

837
00:49:39,529 --> 00:49:42,430
where

838
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:48,150
there is the plaintiff file - we've got

839
00:49:48,150 --> 00:49:55,200
an answer okay the the original ethics

840
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,900
ordinances was drafted as you heard by

841
00:49:57,900 --> 00:49:59,840
the person who filed the first complaint

842
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,930
was it said the state's attorney is the

843
00:50:03,930 --> 00:50:06,630
ethics adviser okay I asked to have that

844
00:50:06,630 --> 00:50:08,640
changed because what if it was somebody

845
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,320
in the state's attorney's office had

846
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,380
filed the complaint it was provided back

847
00:50:13,380 --> 00:50:15,540
to the individual who wrote the the

848
00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:19,530
ordinance and they changed it well we

849
00:50:19,530 --> 00:50:21,750
have since realized that the state's

850
00:50:21,750 --> 00:50:22,950
attorney is not an employee of the

851
00:50:22,950 --> 00:50:24,600
county and only ethics violations

852
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,400
against the state's attorney can be made

853
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:31,650
to the courts in Springfield and I may

854
00:50:31,650 --> 00:50:33,510
be a little bit off on the specifics but

855
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:35,280
it has to be made with the other ethics

856
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,020
okay because they're not employee of the

857
00:50:37,020 --> 00:50:39,390
county hence we're in this weird spot

858
00:50:39,390 --> 00:50:42,710
right now and I think that's what

859
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:45,840
McCants talking about here and so when

860
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,550
we talk about ethics advisor

861
00:50:47,550 --> 00:50:49,800
nine times out of ten and I hope never

862
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:51,930
again do we have to go through this but

863
00:50:51,930 --> 00:50:53,940
if we do and involves the state's

864
00:50:53,940 --> 00:50:55,470
attorney's office and requires an

865
00:50:55,470 --> 00:50:58,110
outside counsel so I just want to

866
00:50:58,110 --> 00:51:00,150
provide that how this all came about

867
00:51:00,150 --> 00:51:01,830
because when we wanted to do this and do

868
00:51:01,830 --> 00:51:03,120
the whistleblower and put it through the

869
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:04,500
county board it was the intent and

870
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:06,060
removing me and the state's attorney

871
00:51:06,060 --> 00:51:08,040
from having anything to do with this

872
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,530
process but what we didn't realize and

873
00:51:10,530 --> 00:51:12,960
we weren't advised by the individual who

874
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,850
wrote this was is that the state's

875
00:51:14,850 --> 00:51:17,630
attorney is not subject to this ethics

876
00:51:17,630 --> 00:51:20,100
complaint process here on the local

877
00:51:20,100 --> 00:51:21,810
level only to what happens in

878
00:51:21,810 --> 00:51:23,370
Springfield and I hope that makes sense

879
00:51:23,370 --> 00:51:33,330
the way that I say that so another thing

880
00:51:33,330 --> 00:51:35,040
that's contained in the ordinance at the

881
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:42,820
current time and I just recently

882
00:51:42,820 --> 00:51:48,350
pass this on to mr. Quinn in the state's

883
00:51:48,350 --> 00:51:53,120
attorney's office is all of those that

884
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:54,670
have served on a public body before

885
00:51:54,670 --> 00:51:58,820
remember the nun statement that used to

886
00:51:58,820 --> 00:52:01,460
file you know none there every answer

887
00:52:01,460 --> 00:52:04,880
was no nun finance statement of economic

888
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,480
interests very okay the ordinance is

889
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,210
drafted at the current time says that

890
00:52:11,210 --> 00:52:14,750
I'm supposed to review those hmm

891
00:52:14,750 --> 00:52:16,520
I haven't seen one yet I believe they're

892
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:22,670
due May 1st and believe me I'm not

893
00:52:22,670 --> 00:52:25,130
looking forward to sitting there I I

894
00:52:25,130 --> 00:52:26,300
don't know where they're going at the

895
00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:28,400
current time where they've been filed

896
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:32,690
previously okay and see right now it

897
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:34,460
says I'm supposed to be looking at those

898
00:52:34,460 --> 00:52:37,490
I don't know if it's necessary I don't

899
00:52:37,490 --> 00:52:42,320
know how many of you get but again I

900
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:43,640
think that's something that we need to

901
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,830
before apply any other answers the nun

902
00:52:45,830 --> 00:52:51,680
yeah yeah so that's one thing is in the

903
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:52,910
ordinance of the current check out the

904
00:52:52,910 --> 00:53:01,500
name you like the best

905
00:53:01,510 --> 00:53:04,220
well I guess if if I'm gonna continue

906
00:53:04,220 --> 00:53:07,010
looking at the nun statements and do the

907
00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:08,980
investigation then maybe it should be

908
00:53:08,980 --> 00:53:10,820
administrator there's kind of an

909
00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:14,590
administrative type of capacity if this

910
00:53:14,590 --> 00:53:16,880
if those things are gonna go by the

911
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,190
wayside someplace else and all and it's

912
00:53:19,190 --> 00:53:21,320
gonna be more of Investigation then

913
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,050
maybe it's a six investigator I worry

914
00:53:24,050 --> 00:53:27,140
about it the title investigator in terms

915
00:53:27,140 --> 00:53:31,520
of your feelings about you know the law

916
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,760
license and all that you know but if you

917
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,490
like being an investigator I've never

918
00:53:37,490 --> 00:53:39,260
been sworn in with them had a badge or

919
00:53:39,260 --> 00:53:40,640
anything either of them so I mean an

920
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:42,680
administrators fine with me in that or

921
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:46,880
something of that nature

922
00:53:46,890 --> 00:53:51,920
okay which kind of makes sense

923
00:53:51,930 --> 00:53:56,380
ethics Commission administrator because

924
00:53:56,380 --> 00:53:58,359
you're going to make the decision as to

925
00:53:58,359 --> 00:54:00,849
whether or not the complaints should be

926
00:54:00,849 --> 00:54:02,770
distributed to the rest of the members

927
00:54:02,770 --> 00:54:09,430
right I perceive that probably in the

928
00:54:09,430 --> 00:54:14,109
majority of instances of things that

929
00:54:14,109 --> 00:54:16,990
have brought to me I mean if it's if

930
00:54:16,990 --> 00:54:19,079
it's something I guess that's completely

931
00:54:19,079 --> 00:54:25,630
frivolous you know I would report it and

932
00:54:25,630 --> 00:54:29,650
probably not do much of anything with it

933
00:54:29,650 --> 00:54:32,470
right but the vast majority I'm probably

934
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:33,880
going to be in a situation where we're

935
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:34,990
going to sit down and have this

936
00:54:34,990 --> 00:54:38,109
discussion as far as complaints that are

937
00:54:38,109 --> 00:54:39,910
filed and if they're a hefty complaint

938
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:45,040
it should be that we would get some kind

939
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,869
of legal counsel whether it was the

940
00:54:46,869 --> 00:54:49,030
state's attorney's office or somebody

941
00:54:49,030 --> 00:54:50,770
outside of there before we made a

942
00:54:50,770 --> 00:54:53,260
decision because they think we have to

943
00:54:53,260 --> 00:55:00,309
be very careful as since the complaint

944
00:55:00,309 --> 00:55:03,910
was given to the reporter you know we

945
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:05,980
have to worry about and we're saying

946
00:55:05,980 --> 00:55:08,079
that what was in it was not applicable

947
00:55:08,079 --> 00:55:12,730
or whatever how do we protect the names

948
00:55:12,730 --> 00:55:17,070
as people have been

949
00:55:17,070 --> 00:55:19,990
spoken about although nothing has been

950
00:55:19,990 --> 00:55:23,310
determined or even suggested that they

951
00:55:23,310 --> 00:55:26,590
actually did anything truly wrong you

952
00:55:26,590 --> 00:55:35,860
know so well just as and I'm not

953
00:55:35,860 --> 00:55:37,510
suggesting that this is what's occurring

954
00:55:37,510 --> 00:55:41,410
here yeah okay but just as I don't think

955
00:55:41,410 --> 00:55:45,520
a newspaper reporter would want to be

956
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,450
used by someone to do their work for

957
00:55:49,450 --> 00:55:53,350
them I don't think this Commission wants

958
00:55:53,350 --> 00:55:56,230
to be in that position either as a

959
00:55:56,230 --> 00:56:00,580
newspaper reporter I tell you that if

960
00:56:00,580 --> 00:56:05,320
you get something in which you delve a

961
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,660
little bit or talk to the complainant or

962
00:56:07,660 --> 00:56:10,840
whatever and you think that there's

963
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:13,630
something to suggest that it's not being

964
00:56:13,630 --> 00:56:16,510
handled properly you would deal with it

965
00:56:16,510 --> 00:56:24,040
as best you could but you know again we

966
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,430
don't want putting out people's names of

967
00:56:27,430 --> 00:56:31,750
any kind either the point or the person

968
00:56:31,750 --> 00:56:34,630
about to whom they're complaining when

969
00:56:34,630 --> 00:56:37,180
there hasn't been any investigation into

970
00:56:37,180 --> 00:56:39,970
it or any thing that triggers an

971
00:56:39,970 --> 00:56:45,550
investigation and I understand totally

972
00:56:45,550 --> 00:56:51,270
what you mean about being used because

973
00:56:51,270 --> 00:56:56,230
God knows we get used I never did that

974
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:58,780
to you told me huh I never did that to

975
00:56:58,780 --> 00:57:04,300
know but you do have people off the

976
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:07,060
street who you know have to tell you

977
00:57:07,060 --> 00:57:08,859
about this terrible thing and it's wrong

978
00:57:08,859 --> 00:57:17,470
and believe me I you know I through this

979
00:57:17,470 --> 00:57:22,990
whole instance I have made every attempt

980
00:57:22,990 --> 00:57:28,030
for both the complaint to feel that they

981
00:57:28,030 --> 00:57:30,880
had been treated fairly

982
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,630
as well as the subject matter of the

983
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:36,940
absolute plant to be treated fairly in

984
00:57:36,940 --> 00:57:41,019
that I I perceive it as trying to

985
00:57:41,019 --> 00:57:45,039
fulfill my role just as I would have

986
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:47,769
attempted to fulfill it for the last 22

987
00:57:47,769 --> 00:57:49,269
years while I was sitting on the bench

988
00:57:49,269 --> 00:57:51,819
you know it's not me to make that final

989
00:57:51,819 --> 00:57:55,690
decision in many of these cases it's for

990
00:57:55,690 --> 00:57:57,190
somebody else to make the decision you

991
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:58,660
know if there's a jury there there has

992
00:57:58,660 --> 00:58:00,970
to be some indication and and you're a

993
00:58:00,970 --> 00:58:03,250
good person to make a judgement about

994
00:58:03,250 --> 00:58:04,960
that and and this whole thing is

995
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,900
judgment unless it would go into a court

996
00:58:07,900 --> 00:58:12,069
situation and it's obviously not in our

997
00:58:12,069 --> 00:58:16,390
opinion meriting and a further

998
00:58:16,390 --> 00:58:18,119
investigation

999
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:24,130
legal the last item as far as a concern

1000
00:58:24,130 --> 00:58:27,430
that I had that I had voiced way back

1001
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:31,779
when when we were putting the ordinance

1002
00:58:31,779 --> 00:58:43,059
together is that the ordinance and I'm

1003
00:58:43,059 --> 00:58:45,400
sure this this wasn't taken out that but

1004
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:52,180
provides that the ethics officer shall

1005
00:58:52,180 --> 00:58:55,269
prosecute the complaint and again this

1006
00:58:55,269 --> 00:58:58,680
has been my primary concern of that that

1007
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,039
I think if we change the title to

1008
00:59:02,039 --> 00:59:04,720
administrator then it will be the ethics

1009
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,880
officers duty to administer it well

1010
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:18,329
let's see right now the way that is did

1011
00:59:18,329 --> 00:59:21,789
it's a section two - two five eight the

1012
00:59:21,789 --> 00:59:24,759
ethics advisory l'ainte before the

1013
00:59:24,759 --> 00:59:27,039
Commission and carries the burden of

1014
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:28,660
proving the allegations against the

1015
00:59:28,660 --> 00:59:30,069
respondent by preponderance of the

1016
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:32,950
evidence that again puts me in a

1017
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:36,550
position as being an a prosecutor which

1018
00:59:36,550 --> 00:59:39,040
and I think in that it's referring to

1019
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:41,470
the state's attorney well and but right

1020
00:59:41,470 --> 00:59:45,070
now it's the languages myself when I had

1021
00:59:45,070 --> 00:59:50,410
proposed clear back and I guess I sent

1022
00:59:50,410 --> 01:00:01,720
this to mr. doar do well several people

1023
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,220
were involved in the communication that

1024
01:00:03,220 --> 01:00:05,820
but include mr. mr. Quinn and

1025
01:00:05,820 --> 01:00:10,320
interesting enough for the complaint but

1026
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:23,590
I what I proposed was that prior I said

1027
01:00:23,590 --> 01:00:25,990
basically prior to the prosecution of

1028
01:00:25,990 --> 01:00:27,250
the complaint when we get to this stage

1029
01:00:27,250 --> 01:00:29,910
with as a prosecution of the complaint

1030
01:00:29,910 --> 01:00:33,220
it appears that the advisor officer is

1031
01:00:33,220 --> 01:00:35,620
expected to do all I'm expected to do

1032
01:00:35,620 --> 01:00:40,540
would be administrative review of ethics

1033
01:00:40,540 --> 01:00:42,330
statements which I previously discussed

1034
01:00:42,330 --> 01:00:47,800
or investigate the possibility that you

1035
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,960
know a complaint should proceed I

1036
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:56,980
suggested that an alternative approach

1037
01:00:56,980 --> 01:00:58,570
would be once the investigation is

1038
01:00:58,570 --> 01:01:00,190
completed and complaint has been allowed

1039
01:01:00,190 --> 01:01:02,680
to be filed the further procurement of

1040
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,480
information and hearing and the making

1041
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:07,090
of the record would be conducted by

1042
01:01:07,090 --> 01:01:09,940
members of the Commission after they

1043
01:01:09,940 --> 01:01:11,380
received all the information requested

1044
01:01:11,380 --> 01:01:13,150
to be a documentary evidence or live

1045
01:01:13,150 --> 01:01:15,190
testimony they would then be required to

1046
01:01:15,190 --> 01:01:19,240
issue the decision they would need to

1047
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,830
conclude that the evidence had proven

1048
01:01:20,830 --> 01:01:22,240
the complaint by preponderance of the

1049
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:23,440
evidence before they could take

1050
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:24,790
disciplinary action against the

1051
01:01:24,790 --> 01:01:27,040
respondent so suggestion I made at that

1052
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,080
point in time was that all right I've

1053
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,930
done the investigation I feel that

1054
01:01:31,930 --> 01:01:35,650
further inquiry should be made with an

1055
01:01:35,650 --> 01:01:38,650
opportunity to be heard before the

1056
01:01:38,650 --> 01:01:40,750
Commission the Commission could request

1057
01:01:40,750 --> 01:01:43,090
additional people to attend could allow

1058
01:01:43,090 --> 01:01:45,910
for live testimony to be provided you

1059
01:01:45,910 --> 01:01:48,070
basically would be sitting in bunk

1060
01:01:48,070 --> 01:01:49,720
together here

1061
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:51,490
what's being presented you would have

1062
01:01:51,490 --> 01:01:52,870
the investigative information that I

1063
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:54,730
would procure you would allow the

1064
01:01:54,730 --> 01:01:56,080
complainant to come in if they wish to

1065
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,060
do so you would you could call in other

1066
01:01:58,060 --> 01:02:00,160
people you would then make it a decision

1067
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:02,320
so I don't know if there's really a need

1068
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:04,140
to have somebody that's actually there

1069
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:07,000
prosecuting the case right especially

1070
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:08,500
when we feel if it gets to that point

1071
01:02:08,500 --> 01:02:11,350
we're going to have whatever legal

1072
01:02:11,350 --> 01:02:13,660
authority we need you know either the

1073
01:02:13,660 --> 01:02:21,210
state's attorney or outside correct and

1074
01:02:21,210 --> 01:02:24,400
but that's that's those are things that

1075
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,230
have been there from the beginning that

1076
01:02:26,230 --> 01:02:28,120
I feel are still there as well as other

1077
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:29,950
things that I feel have been brought up

1078
01:02:29,950 --> 01:02:35,320
right due to what has been about well I

1079
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,510
think that's a that isn't a matter for

1080
01:02:39,510 --> 01:02:44,410
thought I think that your problems if

1081
01:02:44,410 --> 01:02:46,600
you have made those clear to Quinn right

1082
01:02:46,600 --> 01:02:49,870
yes and so he should be aware when we

1083
01:02:49,870 --> 01:02:52,510
notify him that we are going to have

1084
01:02:52,510 --> 01:02:54,730
this other meeting at which we're going

1085
01:02:54,730 --> 01:02:59,050
to talk about changes that we feel need

1086
01:02:59,050 --> 01:03:03,400
to be made revisions so what we need to

1087
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,580
do then I do believe is establish a date

1088
01:03:06,580 --> 01:03:16,400
for another meeting

1089
01:03:16,410 --> 01:03:18,640
all right everybody pull out your

1090
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:39,350
calendars

1091
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:42,100
kind of timeframe do you think we look

1092
01:03:42,100 --> 01:03:45,610
at your going away right now the whole

1093
01:03:45,610 --> 01:04:01,660
county knows Toby yes I would suggest

1094
01:04:01,660 --> 01:04:05,860
probably you know you know I don't know

1095
01:04:05,860 --> 01:04:08,860
what mr. Quinn's workload is at the

1096
01:04:08,860 --> 01:04:13,270
current time and what his vacations you

1097
01:04:13,270 --> 01:04:14,770
know hopefully he's gonna have the

1098
01:04:14,770 --> 01:04:16,360
opportunity to have some summer vacation

1099
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,280
and that too and that but maybe a 30-day

1100
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:24,610
time frame I mean hopefully we won't

1101
01:04:24,610 --> 01:04:27,460
have anything else show up between now

1102
01:04:27,460 --> 01:04:32,590
and then but we'll do the best we can

1103
01:04:32,590 --> 01:04:43,660
yes in July so are we talking possibly

1104
01:04:43,660 --> 01:04:51,550
August something yeah okay can we talk

1105
01:04:51,550 --> 01:04:55,600
about it's a Tuesday acceptable to

1106
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:58,100
people

1107
01:04:58,110 --> 01:05:11,780
Tuesday's I this seventh August 7 and

1108
01:05:11,790 --> 01:05:16,390
should plan on it being not a 15-minute

1109
01:05:16,390 --> 01:05:20,590
meeting right oh okay we can do it a

1110
01:05:20,590 --> 01:05:22,030
little earlier if we want to make it

1111
01:05:22,030 --> 01:05:25,150
let's find like I don't move much before

1112
01:05:25,150 --> 01:05:29,370
11:00 10 o'clock

1113
01:05:29,370 --> 01:05:31,990
yeah is that alright that's fine with me

1114
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:36,850
yeah well that's true too I guess yeah I

1115
01:05:36,850 --> 01:05:38,800
think yeah that would be fine with me

1116
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:41,970
and then at the current

1117
01:05:41,980 --> 01:05:44,480
and if by chance I give that comb and

1118
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:45,140
find

1119
01:05:45,140 --> 01:06:11,590
yes something on another calendar okay

1120
01:06:11,590 --> 01:06:17,990
thank you good all righty anything else

1121
01:06:17,990 --> 01:06:21,320
that other business anyone have

1122
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:33,330
additional business older new business

1123
01:06:33,340 --> 01:06:36,260
eyes I think the press time to speak if

1124
01:06:36,260 --> 01:06:42,450
they have the problem that's what I like

1125
01:06:42,450 --> 01:06:45,070
[Laughter]

1126
01:06:45,070 --> 01:06:48,310
okay then I think we can be adjourned

1127
01:06:48,310 --> 01:06:51,260
all we need a motion to adjourn

1128
01:06:51,260 --> 01:06:54,880
it isn't enough if I say no okay

1129
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:59,140
choice got a motion to adjourn second

1130
01:06:59,140 --> 01:07:02,420
Vicki sounds second all those in favor

1131
01:07:02,420 --> 01:07:03,280
say aye

1132
01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:07,940
I put a motion to adjourn to was not

1133
01:07:07,940 --> 01:07:10,710
negotiable

1134
01:07:10,720 --> 01:07:14,350
you can't have an eye