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[ GAVEL ] >> Good morning everyone and

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welcome to our Committee meeting.

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Today is September 2nd and we'll start

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about our Planning Committee, Mr.

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Bulosan. >> Thank you.

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I would like to call the Planning

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Committee to order and let the record

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reflect all members are present.

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Can I get the first item, please.

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>> Minutes of the August 19th, 2026

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Planning Committee meeting. >> Moved.

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>> Second. >> Moved and seconded.

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Any public testimony? Any discussion?

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All in favor say aye? >> Aye.

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>> Any opposed? Motion passes.

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Can I get the second item, please.

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>> Bill No. 2998, draft 1, a Bill for

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an Ordinance amending Chapters 15, 12

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and 8 Kaua'i County Code, 1987, as

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amended, relating to Wildfire and

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Wildland Urban Interface. County of Kaua'i applicant,

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ZA-2026-6. >> Move to approve.

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>> Second. >> It's been moved and

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seconded. Committee Members, I'm going to

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start with discussion and then we'll

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suspend the rules and have

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Administration respond, and if we have any

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questions for the Administration, we can

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ask then and then we'll do public

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testimony and back to discussion.

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Try to do as much work as we can in

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this Bill in Committee meetings as

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always we do the majority of our work

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in all our bills. with the intent to get it as

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best as possible. So that way, if we

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do pass today, we get the best Bill

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possible for our second reading.

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So with that, we do have presentation

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and discussion starting with Chair

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Rapozo, and I think he has a presentation, if you can get

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that set-up?

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>> Thank you. Committee Chair, I

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appreciate the opportunity to speak.

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I'm a non-Committee Member, but I did

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request the deferral at the last

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Committee meeting. Because I did have some

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questions, let me just start this Bill doesn't

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take effect until next year July

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1st, 2027. So we have a year.

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So there's really no need to rush.

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And my concerns last week was obviously

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the cost, and we're presented with the

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cost estimates from the Administration.

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The other concern I hads was the

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impact, the financial or fiscal impact

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it would have on the Department of

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Water, because $14,000 a home, that is

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a significant amount of money that the

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Water Department would not receive,

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which would have to be made up somewhere.

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And the stuff doesn't just come out of

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thin air. So what I did was I reached

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out to the contractors Association of

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Kaua'i, which is made up of our local

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contractors and developers, and an

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engineer to go over the Bill Section by

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Section to see what the impact would

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be? What it would really cost for

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one of our local contractors that

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specializes in residential construction, as

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well as the building -- and testimonies

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are all attached in the packet that I

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asked Staff to pass out this morning.

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I only received this yesterday. But building industry

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Association had some concerns as well that I

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would like to have a discussion on, which

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really pertains to the applicability

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to all construction whether many a

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hazard area or not, you are bound by these

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requirements. And I kind of likened that to

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the special laws that we have that

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pertain to homes that are in a tsunami

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zone, or in a flood zone.

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Those requirements don't apply to all

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construction around the island, if you

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are not in that hazard area. This one does.

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That is just one of the concerns that

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the BIA had, which I tend to agree

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with, have we designed hazard zones

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with, this should apply too? If you are in a zone that has

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no threat of wildfires, why would we be

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imposing these additional costs on the

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construction? So that is one of them.

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And then the Department of Water impact

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is something that I know that the

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Department of Water is here and I'm

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expecting them to come up and share

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with us what that cost would be.

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But my biggest concern right now is we

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all try to keep our local families in

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homes, is the true cost. So I did ask that the

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contractors Association as I said earlier

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to go through the Bill one by one,

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Section by Section and come up with their

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cost estimates.

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And the reason I'm bringing this

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forward is because it's so different

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from what was presented to us that I

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believe this body needs to validate

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what the real numbers are, and we

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shouldn't be rushed to pass this out

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today, until -- and the Administration

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has a copy of this and hopefully, they

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can come up and explain why these

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numbers are so high, versus what was

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presented? With that I have a short

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presentation that I wanted to share.

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I'm not sure -- I have never done this

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before. So this is I know it's kind of

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small on the screen.

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I hope you can see it. In the first requirement of

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roofs, the contractors association's

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people said there's actually no change.

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That the roofs they wouldn't see any

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increase in costs. But on the gutters and

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downspouts, and this is based on a thousand

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square foot home, a regular simple thousand

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square foot home that to implement

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these requirements would cost an

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additional $3,000.

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The flashing, which is on the exterior

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walls, they are estimateing that the

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materials and labor to comply with that

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Section would be $5,000. The post and pier, stainless

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steel that pier materialss shall be

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non-combustible and in Section DRF they

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are saying that estimate is $5,000 in

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addition to the normal construction

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cost and flashing and decking for the

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post and pier homes what they call the

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under[TKPHRAO-R/] enclosure is $2,000.

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And then on page 5, the vents, they are

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not attributing any costs to that,

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because that is standard. And it would be no additional

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costs. The tempered glass requirement,

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they are estimateing it to be $1800.

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That is again materials and labor.

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The exterior door, $30. The address that is required

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$20. Again, they went through each

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Section that would require additional

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items to be put on that home.

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So that adds up to $16,850, which is

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$16.85 a square foot, and then they had

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two more calculations for concrete

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versus aggregate, and the concrete

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around, again around a thousand square

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foot house, their estimateing it to be

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$90,000. And if you use aggregate

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hardening instead, which is the rock, or

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the gravel is $40,000 instead.

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So as you can see, the price difference

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is significant. Now I'm not a contractor.

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I'm not an engineer. I'm not -- I don't know

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anything about construction, but the

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difference in these numbers are so

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significant that I think it warrants this body to

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at least ask the questions.

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Again, this was -- these were estimates

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that were done from a team that was put

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together by contractors association of

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Kaua'i. And I just wanted to set the

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stage with that, so we can at least get

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some information on what is that

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real number?

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That was my concern when I first saw

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it, because I think the proposed Bill,

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and the number is $6 a square foot.

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And as you can see, it's significantly

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higher on the estimates that were given

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by the contractors Association of

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Kaua'i. Significantly higher.

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So that is kind of where I'm hoping the

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discussion will go today. As I said, Water Department is

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here and I'm hoping that they are

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prepared to come up.

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It's hard to say what the impact will

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be, because you have to know obviously

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how many homes you are going to build?

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Hopefully with historical data, we can

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kind of estimate what we would be

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looking at and how much that would

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impact our Water Department? Which is already struggling

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financially, and again, when we take

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money away from the Water Department,

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it has to be made up somewhere. And their revenue source is

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simply water users.

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So that is always a concern. Again, I will just say this

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Bill, if passed, wouldn't take effect

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until July of 2027.

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It's a whole year. So there is no need

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to rush this through in two Committee

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meetings. So my suggestion would be

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unless we can clarify the numbers, and

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applicability and all of that, that I

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would be asking the Committee to once

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again defer. Thank you.

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>> Thank you. Any initial discussion before

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we go to the Administration?

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Council Member Cowden? >> Okay.

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Thank you, Chair, for that outline.

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Then I'm happy to give a little bit of

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initial discussion. One, we had a letter from

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Habitat for Humanity that suggested there

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might be some Amendments.

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I don't know if I can mention what I

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read in Habitat for Humanity, but so

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when we don't have a second road access

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in, I understand how that is very

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expensive; right? To put in another

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entrance. But I think that is one of the

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biggest Fire hazards that we have.

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I want to speak about the plant challenge.

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I don't know if in the development of

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this Bill how much conversation was put

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in with people who are specialists in

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soil management? But this is anything, but a

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regenerateive strategy of handling the

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soil. So when I look at what puts in

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here, it's not realistic relative to

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the plants, when you separate all

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of the plants out by as much as they

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do, it's pretty much grass to the fence

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line with maybe a few little trees

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in the property.

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When I bought my house, that is basically what it was.

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As I put in regenerateive agriculture

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in there, I haven't watered my yard in

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over probably ten years, because of the

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way the plants -- the way nature

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manages plants, they grow in clusters.

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This doesn't allow for that. It doesn't allow for an

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understory, which is the natural way of

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having plants.

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So I think it's really important,

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because one has to think about cooling

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the House, watering the yard, having --

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this is prioritizeing Fire Prevention

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over food sustainability. And the more you allow your

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yard to be natural, with having a healthy

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amount of leaves and stuff like that

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on the ground, that is what holds the

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water in the soil.

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That is what keeps everything really

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abundant, and before I planted my yard

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that I really had no idea how much it

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would grow into what it became naturally?

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It has like a forest floor in the yard.

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My house is a good ten degrees cooler

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than it was. The House, which is a Hick's

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home with wooden single-wall

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construction, I used to be able to put my hand on

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the wall when the sun was on the house,

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and, you know, warm almost towards hot

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to the touch.

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You wouldn't lean against it with a

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bareback and the House was hot in the

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00:12:22,882 --> 00:12:26,752
daytime, always hot. With a natural healthy yard in

268
00:12:26,752 --> 00:12:28,621
and around it, the House is fine,

269
00:12:28,621 --> 00:12:30,756
and I would never even need an air

270
00:12:30,756 --> 00:12:33,358
conditioner. So when you think about what

271
00:12:33,358 --> 00:12:37,296
the cost is, when we're looking at

272
00:12:37,296 --> 00:12:40,896
affordable housing, the cost to maintain

273
00:12:41,167 --> 00:12:44,236
an unnatural yard with can be when

274
00:12:44,236 --> 00:12:48,436
we're looking at a 4" width of the

275
00:12:48,774 --> 00:12:50,576
tree base, and all these design things

276
00:12:50,576 --> 00:12:53,579
that you have to do. That is not how

277
00:12:53,579 --> 00:12:54,513
plants grow.

278
00:12:54,513 --> 00:12:58,113
So the amount of landscaping, constant

279
00:12:58,317 --> 00:13:02,521
elements to keep the yard in an unhealthy, unnatural way of

280
00:13:02,521 --> 00:13:05,521
being is actually pretty extensive.

281
00:13:06,192 --> 00:13:10,196
So I'll have a few questions to the

282
00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:12,197
Fire Department just about when you

283
00:13:12,197 --> 00:13:16,997
have a wet scape, versus a dry scape?

284
00:13:18,750 --> 00:13:21,685
Because even we see the burn scars that

285
00:13:21,685 --> 00:13:23,554
happened with Hanapepe Kaumakani Fire,

286
00:13:23,554 --> 00:13:27,250
you could see it went right along the

287
00:13:27,250 --> 00:13:29,270
edges of where there was a wet scape in

288
00:13:29,270 --> 00:13:32,362
the agriculture. And I think that when you look

289
00:13:32,362 --> 00:13:35,362
at having concrete around the

290
00:13:36,768 --> 00:13:38,703
House, and absolutely exhausted soil, you

291
00:13:38,703 --> 00:13:41,171
are going to have a hot scape

292
00:13:41,171 --> 00:13:45,176
around that house as opposed to a wet

293
00:13:45,176 --> 00:13:48,112
scape. Again, I really appreciated the

294
00:13:48,112 --> 00:13:50,648
Chair asking the questions about the

295
00:13:50,648 --> 00:13:53,918
Districts. I know we had a Fire in

296
00:13:53,918 --> 00:13:57,550
Wainiha, I believe it was almost 100

297
00:13:57,550 --> 00:14:00,570
acres, when the Fire come up, I will ask a

298
00:14:00,570 --> 00:14:01,525
few questions with that.

299
00:14:01,525 --> 00:14:03,127
There's an example when a wet scape did

300
00:14:03,127 --> 00:14:04,661
burn. So I'll have some questions

301
00:14:04,661 --> 00:14:07,197
about what happened with that wet scape?

302
00:14:07,197 --> 00:14:12,804
But I am in agreement with that different rules would maybe

303
00:14:12,804 --> 00:14:16,741
apply. We still want to be careful, on

304
00:14:16,741 --> 00:14:22,141
how you create a burn area, but I think

305
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:26,484
when you have stuff like hanging wet

306
00:14:26,484 --> 00:14:29,220
suits on clothes line under an eve,

307
00:14:29,220 --> 00:14:30,888
whatever it is, there's all kinds of

308
00:14:30,888 --> 00:14:33,157
things that create burnable materials, a

309
00:14:33,157 --> 00:14:35,694
lot more than the plants.

310
00:14:35,694 --> 00:14:40,164
A nice wet compress on the land of

311
00:14:40,164 --> 00:14:41,632
naturally maintained soil is going to

312
00:14:41,632 --> 00:14:45,360
be a lot less burnable than this -- in

313
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,506
asks for a hot, dry ground, and I think

314
00:14:48,506 --> 00:14:51,509
that is problematic. And Los Angeles is not Kaua'i.

315
00:14:51,509 --> 00:14:53,645
If that is where a lot of these places

316
00:14:53,645 --> 00:14:57,114
came from. Texas is not Kaua'i.

317
00:14:57,114 --> 00:15:00,114
Arizona, Colorado, are not Kaua'i.

318
00:15:00,384 --> 00:15:03,984
So the wonderful and important Fire

319
00:15:03,988 --> 00:15:05,456
convention that happened that came up

320
00:15:05,456 --> 00:15:08,659
with these ideas, conference, it might

321
00:15:08,659 --> 00:15:13,197
be reflecting a very different landscape than what we have

322
00:15:13,197 --> 00:15:16,334
here and I think we need to really

323
00:15:16,334 --> 00:15:18,669
maximize what we have, which is a wet

324
00:15:18,669 --> 00:15:21,605
community, especially in the windward side

325
00:15:21,605 --> 00:15:26,405
of the island that maybe we would have

326
00:15:26,677 --> 00:15:29,413
different requirements. So I think those are things

327
00:15:29,413 --> 00:15:32,349
that I want to be able to look at.

328
00:15:32,349 --> 00:15:35,753
And I'm also going to really want to be

329
00:15:35,753 --> 00:15:41,153
looking at the shalls and Mays. >> Any other additional

330
00:15:42,260 --> 00:15:45,963
discussion? I will just add since we're in

331
00:15:45,963 --> 00:15:48,966
a second Committee meeting and I really

332
00:15:48,966 --> 00:15:51,436
appreciate the non-Members and Committee Members providing all

333
00:15:51,436 --> 00:15:53,639
of the information, so that way we can

334
00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:56,440
look at all of the pieces and make sure

335
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,576
we provide something that is

336
00:15:58,576 --> 00:16:01,713
tangible and useful, but also does what it's

337
00:16:01,713 --> 00:16:04,490
intended to do, which is protect our

338
00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:07,510
community. I will just mention that the

339
00:16:07,510 --> 00:16:09,654
group that came together on this was

340
00:16:09,654 --> 00:16:12,323
specific to Kaua'i and specific to Kaua'i

341
00:16:12,323 --> 00:16:14,807
and provided a Bill with all of the

342
00:16:14,807 --> 00:16:16,943
information necessary, so that we make

343
00:16:16,943 --> 00:16:19,780
any proposed changes that will affect

344
00:16:19,780 --> 00:16:20,814
our community with regards to our

345
00:16:20,814 --> 00:16:24,414
community. So hopefully, we can in

346
00:16:24,550 --> 00:16:26,752
discussion clarify these things and make

347
00:16:26,752 --> 00:16:29,155
sure that we're, you know, passing a Bill

348
00:16:29,155 --> 00:16:31,491
that help ours community, but

349
00:16:31,491 --> 00:16:32,691
doesn't put a burden on them.

350
00:16:32,691 --> 00:16:35,360
I will suspend the rules and ask the

351
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,560
Administration to coming up, as we have

352
00:16:40,233 --> 00:16:42,969
a few questions from Members and

353
00:16:42,969 --> 00:16:46,569
non-Committee Members. Council Members, we'll, as

354
00:16:46,906 --> 00:16:48,574
standard, raise your hand and let me know

355
00:16:48,574 --> 00:16:50,576
when you are ready for questions,

356
00:16:50,576 --> 00:16:51,644
but there's already a list of

357
00:16:51,644 --> 00:16:53,713
questions. I will probably start with the

358
00:16:53,713 --> 00:16:55,581
Chair, if you are okay, with your

359
00:16:55,581 --> 00:16:57,984
presentation. We'll start with your questions

360
00:16:57,984 --> 00:17:01,386
first. But if if the administrate, if

361
00:17:01,386 --> 00:17:04,986
you have any opening thoughts, feel

362
00:17:05,591 --> 00:17:06,458
free to start first.

363
00:17:06,458 --> 00:17:08,590
>> Good morning, Chair, Members of the

364
00:17:08,590 --> 00:17:10,459
Committee, Council Members, Ka'aina

365
00:17:10,530 --> 00:17:13,131
Hull on behalf of the Planning Department, joined by Chief

366
00:17:13,131 --> 00:17:16,268
Gibson and some of the cost analyses for

367
00:17:16,268 --> 00:17:17,470
the Bill. >> Chair.

368
00:17:17,470 --> 00:17:19,872
>> I mean, I don't expect -- they just

369
00:17:19,872 --> 00:17:23,800
got the material today as I just got it

370
00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,800
late yesterday. afternoon.

371
00:17:25,477 --> 00:17:28,547
So I mean, I don't know if they are

372
00:17:28,547 --> 00:17:30,615
prepared to respond so what we provided.

373
00:17:30,615 --> 00:17:32,218
Like I said, I don't believe there's a

374
00:17:32,218 --> 00:17:34,190
rush. If they are prepared to answer,

375
00:17:34,190 --> 00:17:34,687
that is fine.

376
00:17:34,687 --> 00:17:41,287
If not, I can wait. >> Some of the response by the

377
00:17:42,895 --> 00:17:44,629
contractors Association I can say look

378
00:17:44,629 --> 00:17:46,364
act some of those numbers we would

379
00:17:46,364 --> 00:17:48,634
definitely be in agreement. Some of the numbers are

380
00:17:48,634 --> 00:17:50,635
calculating things that aren't required

381
00:17:50,635 --> 00:17:54,306
like the gutters and downspouts is not a

382
00:17:54,306 --> 00:17:57,243
requirement of construction. If you have gutters and

383
00:17:57,243 --> 00:17:59,440
downspouts that they be metal.

384
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:00,981
As well as I didn't quite understand

385
00:18:00,981 --> 00:18:02,380
where they are going with the stainless

386
00:18:02,380 --> 00:18:07,853
steel on the post and pier. We don't necessarily make post

387
00:18:07,853 --> 00:18:10,655
and pier out of stainless steel, but

388
00:18:10,655 --> 00:18:12,791
generally concrete and already

389
00:18:12,791 --> 00:18:16,391
non-combustible and they are plashing flashing

390
00:18:16,462 --> 00:18:18,862
@ [SHRA-EUB/] slab and grade

391
00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:20,933
wouldn't have flashing.

392
00:18:20,933 --> 00:18:23,603
It has a concrete band already in

393
00:18:23,603 --> 00:18:25,737
place. So just on the things that they

394
00:18:25,737 --> 00:18:26,205
are analyzing.

395
00:18:26,205 --> 00:18:27,940
>> I think that was for the post and

396
00:18:27,940 --> 00:18:30,340
pier. >> No - sorry,

397
00:18:30,543 --> 00:18:35,343
>> The flashing and decking. >> Second page, flashing has

398
00:18:38,751 --> 00:18:42,554
it quoted on the base of the house, on

399
00:18:42,554 --> 00:18:44,220
the slab on grade.

400
00:18:44,220 --> 00:18:46,958
You wouldn't have flashing down there.

401
00:18:46,958 --> 00:18:50,629
You would have flashing at the intersection of a deck

402
00:18:50,629 --> 00:18:55,368
absolutely, but not on the slab on grade

403
00:18:55,368 --> 00:18:59,568
example. So there's some areas that they

404
00:19:00,506 --> 00:19:01,640
seem to appear that they are

405
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:02,775
calculating numbers that are in the

406
00:19:02,775 --> 00:19:04,510
requirements. >> I think that is where,

407
00:19:04,510 --> 00:19:07,446
again, I don't expect you to do a

408
00:19:07,446 --> 00:19:08,380
comparison today.

409
00:19:08,380 --> 00:19:12,918
>> But I can also say that looking at

410
00:19:12,918 --> 00:19:16,789
their numbers for hard scape, and we

411
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:19,580
specifically got five quotes from five

412
00:19:19,580 --> 00:19:20,193
different contractors, and we provided

413
00:19:20,193 --> 00:19:22,729
the names of those contractors at the

414
00:19:22,729 --> 00:19:27,529
last Committee meeting. And it was between $4.33 a

415
00:19:27,533 --> 00:19:31,133
square foot and $8, depending on the

416
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:34,941
contractor. So that is where I am, wait,

417
00:19:34,941 --> 00:19:39,278
the $40 a square foot for hard scape, I'm

418
00:19:39,278 --> 00:19:42,682
not going to say there aren't

419
00:19:42,682 --> 00:19:46,685
contractors quoteing that, but that is not

420
00:19:46,685 --> 00:19:48,688
necessarily reflective of five quotes

421
00:19:48,688 --> 00:19:49,955
from five contractors that are willing

422
00:19:49,955 --> 00:19:52,692
to go on the record of what they are

423
00:19:52,692 --> 00:19:55,270
quoting. >> Can you remind us what

424
00:19:55,270 --> 00:19:57,427
those were? >> The quotes?

425
00:19:57,563 --> 00:20:01,763
>> The quote was unlimited had it $5 a

426
00:20:02,768 --> 00:20:06,773
square foot. >> Is that labor and -- and

427
00:20:06,773 --> 00:20:09,773
concrete? >> The materials delivery is

428
00:20:10,109 --> 00:20:12,111
also something that has to be

429
00:20:12,111 --> 00:20:14,314
factored in, and labor.

430
00:20:14,314 --> 00:20:16,449
So when we got two quotes for just

431
00:20:16,449 --> 00:20:18,518
materials if you do a self-build and

432
00:20:18,518 --> 00:20:22,540
pick the gravel up, and it was between

433
00:20:22,540 --> 00:20:24,124
$350 and $850 for the entire amount of

434
00:20:24,124 --> 00:20:27,326
gravel. It comes out to between $40-60

435
00:20:27,326 --> 00:20:29,796
a ton, the House we're analyzing

436
00:20:29,796 --> 00:20:33,996
requires about 13 tons for that 5' band.

437
00:20:34,934 --> 00:20:39,405
And so with labor, delivery and materials, unlimited was

438
00:20:39,405 --> 00:20:43,750
quoting $5 a square foot and shoiey was

439
00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:45,744
$6.60 a square foot and etherworks at

440
00:20:45,744 --> 00:20:47,680
$8 a square foot and Pacific

441
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,280
concrete cutting and coreing at $5.33 a

442
00:20:52,552 --> 00:20:57,352
square foot and good fellows at -- --

443
00:21:04,897 --> 00:21:06,990
>> Council members, questions for the

444
00:21:06,990 --> 00:21:09,990
Admin? Council Member Kuali'i and

445
00:21:09,234 --> 00:21:10,903
Council Member Cowden.

446
00:21:10,903 --> 00:21:14,706
>> I don't know if you would know

447
00:21:14,706 --> 00:21:17,977
this, but you probably don't necessarily track it, but of

448
00:21:17,977 --> 00:21:22,777
all of the new builds of homes happening

449
00:21:22,849 --> 00:21:25,517
on Kaua'i, each year, do you have

450
00:21:25,517 --> 00:21:28,540
a sense of how many are slab on grade,

451
00:21:28,540 --> 00:21:30,790
and how many are post pier?

452
00:21:30,790 --> 00:21:32,790
Like 50/50? 60/40?

453
00:21:33,525 --> 00:21:36,196
>> I don't have a sense of that, quite

454
00:21:36,196 --> 00:21:38,397
honestly. >> Because like what you were

455
00:21:38,397 --> 00:21:41,267
saying clearly the flashing expense

456
00:21:41,267 --> 00:21:43,670
wouldn't apply to the slab on grade, but

457
00:21:43,670 --> 00:21:46,700
it would apply --

458
00:21:46,710 --> 00:21:48,207
>> It wouldn't apply to post on peer

459
00:21:48,207 --> 00:21:51,344
because of the combustible wall at the

460
00:21:51,344 --> 00:21:53,747
base. >> What is on the bottom of

461
00:21:53,747 --> 00:21:57,347
page 3? It says flashing for decking

462
00:21:57,483 --> 00:22:00,483
materials and labor -- $2,000, doesn't

463
00:22:01,870 --> 00:22:03,689
that purple stuff go all around the

464
00:22:03,689 --> 00:22:06,292
bottom? >> That is the mesh.

465
00:22:06,292 --> 00:22:08,292
>> Mesh. .

466
00:22:09,962 --> 00:22:12,832
>> Is mesh probably part of that?

467
00:22:12,832 --> 00:22:15,832
>> Probably. Clarifying we wouldn't object

468
00:22:15,837 --> 00:22:18,174
to. The flashing -- the bottom of

469
00:22:18,174 --> 00:22:20,508
page 3 we have no objections.

470
00:22:20,508 --> 00:22:24,108
>> Oh, that is -- >> That --

471
00:22:25,447 --> 00:22:29,647
>> Okay. The other thing is if there's

472
00:22:30,118 --> 00:22:31,920
like that stairs, it's decking or

473
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,656
whatever, the more of that there is, the more

474
00:22:34,656 --> 00:22:35,924
costs would be?

475
00:22:35,924 --> 00:22:38,126
The more deck you have, the more

476
00:22:38,126 --> 00:22:39,595
flashing you have to have at the

477
00:22:39,595 --> 00:22:41,462
interface. >> Right

478
00:22:41,462 --> 00:22:41,996
>> . >> .

479
00:22:41,996 --> 00:22:43,131
Thank you. >> Council Member Cowden.

480
00:22:43,131 --> 00:22:45,467
>> I would like to start with Chief

481
00:22:45,467 --> 00:22:47,736
Gibson. So I want to talk about the

482
00:22:47,736 --> 00:22:48,737
different regions of the island.

483
00:22:48,737 --> 00:22:52,207
We have a map that we often look at

484
00:22:52,207 --> 00:22:55,209
that shows yellow and red and the more

485
00:22:55,209 --> 00:22:58,480
burnable areas. Can you just say for a moment

486
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,215
which regions are the highest Fire

487
00:23:00,215 --> 00:23:04,415
risk? And which are the lower Fire

488
00:23:04,887 --> 00:23:05,888
risks? >> Thank you for that

489
00:23:05,888 --> 00:23:08,288
question. Mike Gibson, [TPAO-EURPLTS/].

490
00:23:08,890 --> 00:23:12,227
Fire Department. Yeah, I would ask us to step

491
00:23:12,227 --> 00:23:14,763
back and get away from the map and these

492
00:23:14,763 --> 00:23:18,963
borders on the maps, and concentrate on

493
00:23:21,369 --> 00:23:22,704
wind-driven fires the embers we're

494
00:23:22,704 --> 00:23:25,307
talking about that can do miles the

495
00:23:25,307 --> 00:23:27,242
size of baseballs, they don't stop at

496
00:23:27,242 --> 00:23:30,445
the line on the map. They will keep going; right?

497
00:23:30,445 --> 00:23:32,247
And although I'm not a scientist,

498
00:23:32,247 --> 00:23:35,116
like one of you on this panel, climate

499
00:23:35,116 --> 00:23:36,117
change is real.

500
00:23:36,117 --> 00:23:39,187
The patterns in the world are shifting.

501
00:23:39,187 --> 00:23:41,323
We're seeing fires now that we wouldn't

502
00:23:41,323 --> 00:23:43,658
have seen 20, 30 years ago and they are

503
00:23:43,658 --> 00:23:48,797
going to start shifting to the different areas, the wetter

504
00:23:48,797 --> 00:23:51,933
areas, if you would and it's not wildfire

505
00:23:51,933 --> 00:23:53,801
that I'm worried about it's one

506
00:23:53,801 --> 00:23:55,737
house on being in Fire in the wind and

507
00:23:55,737 --> 00:23:59,337
vehicles with the lithium ion batterys

508
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,211
that we can't put out and with the

509
00:24:03,211 --> 00:24:05,948
higher winds that will start driving the

510
00:24:05,948 --> 00:24:08,416
heat, flames and embers, anywhere.

511
00:24:08,416 --> 00:24:10,552
It's going to go house-to-house at that

512
00:24:10,552 --> 00:24:12,200
point. >> I want to talk about that.

513
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,240
Thank you for bringing that up. When we look at a wind-driven

514
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,824
Fire in an area what other things than

515
00:24:22,630 --> 00:24:24,630
just plants?

516
00:24:25,299 --> 00:24:27,369
in that house itself are burning?

517
00:24:27,369 --> 00:24:30,572
What are the hotspots? When you go to a

518
00:24:30,572 --> 00:24:34,772
Fire, in Kilauea or Hanalei or Kapahi,

519
00:24:35,643 --> 00:24:40,443
still what are you looking out for Fire

520
00:24:42,116 --> 00:24:44,719
containment rapidly? >> In the Fires that we have

521
00:24:44,719 --> 00:24:48,919
had, we have been fortunate, held to

522
00:24:49,457 --> 00:24:51,127
one structure or adjacent structure

523
00:24:51,127 --> 00:24:52,327
and able to get in there.

524
00:24:52,327 --> 00:24:56,398
In the best of conditions our Firefighters are going to put

525
00:24:56,398 --> 00:24:58,600
the Fire out, but those things that can

526
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,869
spread the Fire are debris around the

527
00:25:00,869 --> 00:25:04,469
home, clutter around the home, just

528
00:25:06,207 --> 00:25:08,209
debris, build up of debris; right?

529
00:25:08,209 --> 00:25:09,344
>> Debris, that is what I would

530
00:25:09,344 --> 00:25:13,140
think. When I look at this where it's

531
00:25:13,140 --> 00:25:16,140
very prescriptive on the vegetation,

532
00:25:17,826 --> 00:25:21,363
not all vegetation is the same, by

533
00:25:21,363 --> 00:25:23,432
the way, I would think.

534
00:25:23,432 --> 00:25:25,500
A wind-driven hot Fire is like a

535
00:25:25,500 --> 00:25:29,700
blowdryer and dry out even the wettest

536
00:25:30,639 --> 00:25:33,842
of the plants and look at debris, there

537
00:25:33,842 --> 00:25:37,442
is nothing prescriptive on the debris,

538
00:25:38,312 --> 00:25:41,850
but about the plants. Can you compare the difference

539
00:25:41,850 --> 00:25:45,119
of water dense vegetation versus big

540
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:46,587
pile of books?

541
00:25:46,587 --> 00:25:50,191
I'm picking on myself, boxes of books

542
00:25:50,191 --> 00:25:53,791
in the garage, propane tanks, kayaks,

543
00:25:53,929 --> 00:25:56,329
you know? Wet suits.

544
00:25:57,265 --> 00:26:02,650
All kinds of things that might be in

545
00:26:05,474 --> 00:26:07,275
the garage, how would you be able to

546
00:26:07,275 --> 00:26:11,130
compare to wet scape? >> I wouldn't be able to do as

547
00:26:11,130 --> 00:26:15,813
good as job as Derek or Elizabeth, but

548
00:26:17,552 --> 00:26:18,820
the well-intends Greenland scape

549
00:26:18,820 --> 00:26:22,223
today may not look like that 10-15 years.

550
00:26:22,223 --> 00:26:25,427
We might have drought and areas of the

551
00:26:25,427 --> 00:26:27,290
County with deteriorateing water

552
00:26:27,290 --> 00:26:30,980
infrastructure, sorry, Joe. That we have neighborhoods go

553
00:26:30,980 --> 00:26:33,635
out for weeks or months at a time

554
00:26:33,635 --> 00:26:36,304
without water and the plants that rely on the

555
00:26:36,304 --> 00:26:38,707
water, if we're not getting it from

556
00:26:38,707 --> 00:26:40,842
the weather, if the patterns change

557
00:26:40,842 --> 00:26:44,378
and the those well-intended wet scapes

558
00:26:44,378 --> 00:26:45,713
could be a source of Fire.

559
00:26:45,713 --> 00:26:47,516
>> When they are not dryed out and

560
00:26:47,516 --> 00:26:49,384
what is the difference between that and

561
00:26:49,384 --> 00:26:52,521
the box of books or whoa is what is

562
00:26:52,521 --> 00:26:56,721
the different between that and piles of

563
00:26:58,260 --> 00:26:59,261
fishing nets, all different things that

564
00:26:59,261 --> 00:27:01,630
pile around and propane tanks? Probably

565
00:27:01,630 --> 00:27:04,266
when you fight a Fire, you have to be

566
00:27:04,266 --> 00:27:07,866
careful around the propane tanks, would

567
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,140
that be accurate? >> Yes.

568
00:27:12,140 --> 00:27:15,610
>> Would say wet scape is more?

569
00:27:15,610 --> 00:27:16,478
Because we're talking about climate

570
00:27:16,478 --> 00:27:18,546
change. Climate change happens in part

571
00:27:18,546 --> 00:27:21,149
because of how we treat the soil.

572
00:27:21,149 --> 00:27:23,618
Deeply, and it doesn't get addressed.

573
00:27:23,618 --> 00:27:26,154
Wet scape plants versus a box of books

574
00:27:26,154 --> 00:27:28,624
or piles of papers, what is more

575
00:27:28,624 --> 00:27:30,959
flammable? >> We had the UL scientist

576
00:27:30,959 --> 00:27:33,762
here one or two weeks ago that could have

577
00:27:33,762 --> 00:27:35,762
answered that brilliantly.

578
00:27:44,972 --> 00:27:49,377
It's surface area. It will burn quicker and faster

579
00:27:49,377 --> 00:27:50,712
than a book.

580
00:27:50,712 --> 00:27:52,914
There is two sides toe look at it in

581
00:27:52,914 --> 00:27:55,116
the best of conditions, wetter is

582
00:27:55,116 --> 00:27:59,316
better; right? >> When you look at road

583
00:28:00,255 --> 00:28:04,455
design, when we possibly have an amendment

584
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:08,596
that says okay, we don't have to worry

585
00:28:08,596 --> 00:28:11,666
about a second route out, for the

586
00:28:11,666 --> 00:28:15,813
safety of the community, and the safety of

587
00:28:15,813 --> 00:28:19,160
the Firefighters, when I look at

588
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,218
these closed neighborhoods, like

589
00:28:21,218 --> 00:28:23,954
Wailua Houselots, who I really feel

590
00:28:23,954 --> 00:28:25,491
extra concerned for is our

591
00:28:25,491 --> 00:28:27,892
Firefighters, because they are going to be

592
00:28:27,892 --> 00:28:29,227
the last out; right? They are going to

593
00:28:29,227 --> 00:28:32,964
be the ones that are locked in.

594
00:28:32,964 --> 00:28:37,164
Doesn't make sense that we say no

595
00:28:37,435 --> 00:28:41,705
needed alternative route out. How is that impact?

596
00:28:41,705 --> 00:28:44,374
>> If I could just say, there's a

597
00:28:44,374 --> 00:28:47,778
proposed Amendment that doesn't say not

598
00:28:47,778 --> 00:28:49,647
required, but says with approval of the

599
00:28:49,647 --> 00:28:51,248
Fire Department it can be waived.

600
00:28:51,248 --> 00:28:53,785
You may have a proposal that has only

601
00:28:53,785 --> 00:28:56,785
20 units that immediately is serviceed

602
00:28:56,788 --> 00:29:01,588
by an adjacent highway. Would warrant necessarily two

603
00:29:04,394 --> 00:29:05,796
full roads into it.

604
00:29:05,796 --> 00:29:08,466
On those that want to exempt out, they

605
00:29:08,466 --> 00:29:10,868
need to first get the Fire Chief's

606
00:29:10,868 --> 00:29:13,268
approval. >> Including a large

607
00:29:16,730 --> 00:29:18,942
development a large development could ask

608
00:29:18,942 --> 00:29:22,214
for it, but it would require the Fire

609
00:29:22,214 --> 00:29:25,214
Department's approval. >> Council Member Kaneshiro.

610
00:29:25,683 --> 00:29:27,886
>> I have a question going back to the

611
00:29:27,886 --> 00:29:32,686
wet scape. The Lahaina Fire did the wet

612
00:29:34,692 --> 00:29:36,227
scape survive, or --

613
00:29:36,227 --> 00:29:37,494
>> I personally don't have that

614
00:29:37,494 --> 00:29:39,894
answer. I don't know.

615
00:29:40,631 --> 00:29:42,900
>> If I remember correctly, that

616
00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:44,568
happened during an extreme drought.

617
00:29:44,568 --> 00:29:48,306
So I think the wet scape was dry.

618
00:29:48,306 --> 00:29:50,641
>> And Lahaina isn't wet. >> Used to be.

619
00:29:50,641 --> 00:29:53,440
>> It's on the Leeward side of the

620
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,713
island. It's the dry side of the island.

621
00:29:55,713 --> 00:29:57,915
>> The wet scapes were all removed.

622
00:29:57,915 --> 00:29:59,516
>> The wet scapes were removed, just

623
00:29:59,516 --> 00:30:05,456
like they have been here. The wet scapes have been

624
00:30:05,456 --> 00:30:08,590
removed at the large-scale level, but

625
00:30:08,590 --> 00:30:12,396
Lahaina is on the dryer side of the island.

626
00:30:12,396 --> 00:30:17,796
>> Further follow-up. During a Fire, live wet tree is

627
00:30:19,137 --> 00:30:23,337
just as susceptible to burn as anywhere

628
00:30:24,942 --> 00:30:25,476
else; right?

629
00:30:25,476 --> 00:30:32,676
>> So I have a follow-up. When you have a canopy of very

630
00:30:34,351 --> 00:30:37,951
wet trees, versus no large wet

631
00:30:39,900 --> 00:30:41,759
trees, embers flying in the wind, are

632
00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:43,293
they likely to hit that large wet

633
00:30:43,293 --> 00:30:45,496
tree or likely to hit the House if

634
00:30:45,496 --> 00:30:47,231
there's no large wet tree?

635
00:30:47,231 --> 00:30:51,769
What are they going to hit? >> They are going to shower

636
00:30:51,769 --> 00:30:54,439
and force their way through every nook

637
00:30:54,439 --> 00:30:56,373
and cranny they can.

638
00:30:56,373 --> 00:30:59,977
Nothing is for certain. >> Nothing is for certain, but

639
00:30:59,977 --> 00:31:02,646
you have a defenseible space with

640
00:31:02,646 --> 00:31:06,246
large wet trees from blowing embers.

641
00:31:06,250 --> 00:31:10,540
It just depends a strong 80 miles an

642
00:31:10,540 --> 00:31:12,456
hour that happened in Lahaina, or maybe

643
00:31:12,456 --> 00:31:15,939
it wasn't quite that strong, but with

644
00:31:15,939 --> 00:31:19,409
embers going they are going to get

645
00:31:19,409 --> 00:31:23,609
anything. I mean, it's commonsense that a

646
00:31:30,420 --> 00:31:32,889
damp blanket will put out some

647
00:31:32,889 --> 00:31:34,958
embers. >> More questions for the

648
00:31:34,958 --> 00:31:37,628
Administration? I have Chair Rapozo and

649
00:31:37,628 --> 00:31:38,162
follow-up questions.

650
00:31:38,162 --> 00:31:41,699
>> I have a question. >> Your mic.

651
00:31:41,699 --> 00:31:47,990
>> You said the gutters and downspouts are not required?

652
00:31:48,639 --> 00:31:52,242
>> You don't have to have gutters on a

653
00:31:52,242 --> 00:31:55,845
house, but if you do -- >> Statute or the code, or the

654
00:31:55,845 --> 00:31:57,180
Bill says construction requirements

655
00:31:57,180 --> 00:31:59,317
for any newly proposed residentially

656
00:31:59,317 --> 00:32:00,917
structures or additions to existing

657
00:32:00,917 --> 00:32:02,786
structures the following construction

658
00:32:02,786 --> 00:32:05,655
requirements shall be met and that is No. 1.

659
00:32:05,655 --> 00:32:09,855
1B is gutters and downspouts shall be

660
00:32:11,328 --> 00:32:16,728
constructed of metal material. It doesn't say it's optional.

661
00:32:17,467 --> 00:32:19,202
>> The material has to be metal.

662
00:32:19,202 --> 00:32:21,471
>> If I am reading this it's doing me

663
00:32:21,471 --> 00:32:24,275
I have to have gutters, but you are say

664
00:32:24,275 --> 00:32:26,810
[TA-EGZ/] optional. >> The guter themselves is

665
00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:29,278
optional, but if they put a gutter, that

666
00:32:29,278 --> 00:32:29,946
has to be metal.

667
00:32:29,946 --> 00:32:33,149
>> That has to be fixed, right right

668
00:32:33,149 --> 00:32:34,484
now I'm reading that I have to put it

669
00:32:34,484 --> 00:32:37,888
on. Did your estimate consider the

670
00:32:37,888 --> 00:32:41,488
$6 a square foot consider guters and

671
00:32:41,625 --> 00:32:43,693
downspouts or not? >> When I did the cost

672
00:32:43,693 --> 00:32:45,495
comparison. >> Please state your name.

673
00:32:45,495 --> 00:32:47,631
>> Sorry, this is Lance with unlimited

674
00:32:47,631 --> 00:32:50,767
construction. When I did the original cost

675
00:32:50,767 --> 00:32:54,704
study, I assumed guters on the original

676
00:32:54,704 --> 00:32:56,306
build and the build.

677
00:32:56,306 --> 00:32:58,176
>> Was the gutters included in that?

678
00:32:58,176 --> 00:33:00,977
>> Yes. >> Meaning this was no cost

679
00:33:00,977 --> 00:33:03,977
change because both models assumed

680
00:33:05,582 --> 00:33:07,500
gutters. >> It's an additional cost to

681
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:09,119
do your gutter made of metal.

682
00:33:09,119 --> 00:33:12,119
>> Which is standard on Kaua'i.

683
00:33:13,523 --> 00:33:15,658
Aluminum gutters. >> Thank you. Are there any

684
00:33:15,658 --> 00:33:17,727
other requirements in here that are

685
00:33:17,727 --> 00:33:21,327
optional? >> Well, like so the flashing

686
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,135
on the decking; right? If you don't

687
00:33:25,135 --> 00:33:26,603
have a deck, if you don't have

688
00:33:26,603 --> 00:33:28,472
flashing. >> Obviously.

689
00:33:28,472 --> 00:33:31,675
>> And for the flashing where you

690
00:33:31,675 --> 00:33:33,477
have roof intersections, if you don't

691
00:33:33,477 --> 00:33:35,110
have roof intersections you don't have

692
00:33:35,110 --> 00:33:38,110
a flashing requirement there. >> Follow-up.

693
00:33:38,882 --> 00:33:41,350
Council Member Kaneshiro. >> On the costs I had a

694
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:44,350
question on the glazed windows.

695
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:56,360
Trying to find the page. Tempered glass materials and

696
00:33:56,832 --> 00:33:58,832
labor was $1800 CK.

697
00:34:00,904 --> 00:34:04,640
Thelake labor for a tempered glass is

698
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,444
harder to install or the same? So it's just the difference for

699
00:34:07,444 --> 00:34:09,312
-- >> The material.

700
00:34:09,312 --> 00:34:12,849
When I did my study I got actually

701
00:34:12,849 --> 00:34:17,649
quotes from HB M and asked for WUI

702
00:34:20,606 --> 00:34:22,142
requirements with one pane being

703
00:34:22,142 --> 00:34:24,877
tempered. That is pretty much in line

704
00:34:24,877 --> 00:34:30,277
with what I did my study with the increase

705
00:34:30,616 --> 00:34:31,840
around $1200.

706
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,151
>> I have a new question, following up

707
00:34:33,151 --> 00:34:36,151
with the discussion and community

708
00:34:36,621 --> 00:34:40,426
input, requirements on yards. So I think a lot of people are

709
00:34:40,426 --> 00:34:43,161
putting what is required in this Bill

710
00:34:43,161 --> 00:34:45,697
for 5' and then translating that to

711
00:34:45,697 --> 00:34:46,832
the entire yard.

712
00:34:46,832 --> 00:34:49,769
Can you reiterate what this Bill does

713
00:34:49,769 --> 00:34:53,969
for the yard? >> The yard defensible space

714
00:34:54,372 --> 00:34:56,977
requirements concerning tree maintenance are only for larger

715
00:34:56,977 --> 00:35:01,777
subdivision projects. It's not for an individual home

716
00:35:02,781 --> 00:35:04,316
proposal. Larker subdivisions that often

717
00:35:04,316 --> 00:35:07,316
come with landscaping conditions in

718
00:35:07,386 --> 00:35:08,854
their subdivision application.

719
00:35:08,854 --> 00:35:12,570
It just is those landscaping proposals

720
00:35:12,570 --> 00:35:16,257
that you are pre-standard need to take

721
00:35:16,928 --> 00:35:19,328
into account wildfire resiliency.

722
00:35:19,665 --> 00:35:21,200
>> Just following-up on that to be

723
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,300
really clear, if it's not in at subdivision and it's an

724
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:27,720
individual home and outside of the 5', there's

725
00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:27,673
no mandate.

726
00:35:27,673 --> 00:35:30,809
>> There's no mandate. >> So there's no control over

727
00:35:30,809 --> 00:35:33,120
what vegetation or how you plant

728
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:36,120
your vegetation, but the five'

729
00:35:36,140 --> 00:35:36,682
surrounding the home.

730
00:35:36,682 --> 00:35:38,283
>> Surrounding the proposed new home.

731
00:35:38,283 --> 00:35:41,883
>> Follow-up on that. >> Clarification on that.

732
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,220
If it's an addition, like an additional

733
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:49,295
uniting on abexisting home. >> Just that portion that is

734
00:35:49,295 --> 00:35:52,300
being added onto the home would have

735
00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:53,432
the home-hardening requirements and

736
00:35:53,432 --> 00:35:55,168
the 5' hard scape.

737
00:35:55,168 --> 00:35:56,568
But the existing part of the home that

738
00:35:56,568 --> 00:35:58,704
is already there would not have to be

739
00:35:58,704 --> 00:36:00,839
updated. >> Council Member Cowden.

740
00:36:00,839 --> 00:36:04,176
>> So just to be clear, because that

741
00:36:04,176 --> 00:36:08,470
makes me feel a little better, is this

742
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:09,982
30' from the House, if you just have a

743
00:36:09,982 --> 00:36:11,917
house, and it's not a new subdivision,

744
00:36:11,917 --> 00:36:14,520
they are not going to say you can't

745
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,522
have an avocado tree? >> Absolutely not.

746
00:36:17,522 --> 00:36:20,522
>> Because this would be prohibiting

747
00:36:22,127 --> 00:36:24,863
avocado, mangos, Ulu, most food bearing

748
00:36:24,863 --> 00:36:27,133
trees would not fit the definition of

749
00:36:27,133 --> 00:36:32,533
what is in here. So planned subdivision is this

750
00:36:32,805 --> 00:36:36,142
for the common area, or even any house

751
00:36:36,142 --> 00:36:37,943
can't have avocado, Ulu?

752
00:36:37,943 --> 00:36:42,143
>> You can have trees in a planned

753
00:36:42,149 --> 00:36:43,883
subdivision. It would just have to be

754
00:36:43,883 --> 00:36:45,818
maintained in a manner that doesn't have

755
00:36:45,818 --> 00:36:48,818
ladder fuels. >> Doesn't have what?

756
00:36:49,354 --> 00:36:52,954
>> Ladder fuels, the way fires climb

757
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,760
up trees Council Member Holland and

758
00:36:57,829 --> 00:36:58,564
Council Member Rapozo.

759
00:36:58,564 --> 00:37:01,967
>> Can we just go back to the map of

760
00:37:01,967 --> 00:37:04,637
the hazard areas. If I remember correctly on

761
00:37:04,637 --> 00:37:06,906
those maps it showed most of Kaua'i as

762
00:37:06,906 --> 00:37:08,173
being hazard.

763
00:37:08,173 --> 00:37:12,973
Can you -- what was the -- --

764
00:37:17,869 --> 00:37:20,204
>> The maps. >> Like, I thought when we

765
00:37:20,204 --> 00:37:22,206
looked at those, it really identified

766
00:37:22,206 --> 00:37:26,100
most of Kaua'i as a potential risk for

767
00:37:26,100 --> 00:37:28,613
Fire. It was certain areas that were

768
00:37:28,613 --> 00:37:31,482
a little lower that we saw a Fire in

769
00:37:31,482 --> 00:37:34,152
Wainiha last week, which I used to

770
00:37:34,152 --> 00:37:36,220
consider pretty wet scape.

771
00:37:36,220 --> 00:37:37,622
I'm wondering can you clarify a little

772
00:37:37,622 --> 00:37:40,240
bit more about the delineation of those

773
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,930
and why it's Islandwide I know it's

774
00:37:43,930 --> 00:37:45,629
date of birth >> I don't have that

775
00:37:45,629 --> 00:37:46,964
scientific answer like Elizabeth would.

776
00:37:46,964 --> 00:37:51,164
I would say it's Islandwide because of

777
00:37:51,702 --> 00:37:55,706
the wind-driven aspect of it. >> Further to that, talking

778
00:37:55,706 --> 00:37:57,641
about the wet, like to Council Member

779
00:37:57,641 --> 00:38:01,312
Cowden's point if there's a wet tree,

780
00:38:01,312 --> 00:38:02,380
you probably experienced, would you

781
00:38:02,380 --> 00:38:04,848
say it's true that if a Fire is

782
00:38:04,848 --> 00:38:07,985
approaching that it quickly dries out wet

783
00:38:07,985 --> 00:38:10,121
trees prior to the Fire hitting it?

784
00:38:10,121 --> 00:38:11,655
>> Yes. >> I have to follow-up on

785
00:38:11,655 --> 00:38:13,791
that. I asked about embers.

786
00:38:13,791 --> 00:38:17,620
>> I have a follow-up. >> I asked about embers

787
00:38:17,620 --> 00:38:19,197
blowing. >> What I'm saying, Council

788
00:38:19,197 --> 00:38:20,998
Member, if there's a massive Fire.

789
00:38:20,998 --> 00:38:22,199
>> I understand the difference.

790
00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:24,802
That wasn't my question. >> The heat of that drives

791
00:38:24,802 --> 00:38:27,710
things out in advance a quarter mile, so

792
00:38:27,710 --> 00:38:28,739
you are dealing with a wet scape that

793
00:38:28,739 --> 00:38:30,675
is dry before the embers get to the

794
00:38:30,675 --> 00:38:34,679
House. That is the science of how

795
00:38:34,679 --> 00:38:37,790
[WAO-EUFRLDZ/] works wildfire works.

796
00:38:38,820 --> 00:38:40,885
>> Chair Rapozo. >> If you build a new

797
00:38:40,885 --> 00:38:43,870
structure, ADU, because it says any new

798
00:38:43,870 --> 00:38:43,888
construction or additions.

799
00:38:43,888 --> 00:38:47,558
So if I wanted to add a bedroom to my

800
00:38:47,558 --> 00:38:52,960
existing house, how would that calculation be made?

801
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:53,898
>> Just the addition part if you are

802
00:38:53,898 --> 00:38:56,968
doing a bedroom within and not expanding walls.

803
00:38:56,968 --> 00:38:58,703
>> I'm going to expand. >> If you are going to expand

804
00:38:58,703 --> 00:39:00,370
the walls that portion of the

805
00:39:00,370 --> 00:39:03,107
structure expanded would be subject to

806
00:39:03,107 --> 00:39:04,575
home-hardening requirements, not the

807
00:39:04,575 --> 00:39:07,778
entire structure. >> How would I do my 5'?

808
00:39:07,778 --> 00:39:09,713
>> It would be on that portion?

809
00:39:09,713 --> 00:39:13,313
Just like a little outie? >> Yes.

810
00:39:17,855 --> 00:39:19,858
>> Does that help that house being

811
00:39:19,858 --> 00:39:22,593
Fire safer? >> It helps that portion.

812
00:39:22,593 --> 00:39:24,128
>> Again, we're trying to be practical

813
00:39:24,128 --> 00:39:26,797
here. If we're making them doing

814
00:39:26,797 --> 00:39:29,401
things that is not going to help, it makes

815
00:39:29,401 --> 00:39:31,100
no sense. >> If I may?

816
00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:33,700
>> I'm not talking about the stuff you

817
00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:35,941
have to do on the House itself, but I'm

818
00:39:35,941 --> 00:39:39,676
talking about the 5'? >> The bigger goal is that we

819
00:39:39,676 --> 00:39:42,346
get our Firewise communities every

820
00:39:42,346 --> 00:39:44,682
neighbor, every person wants to implement

821
00:39:44,682 --> 00:39:45,750
these codes voluntarily.

822
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:50,287
Just getting the idea that zero to 5'

823
00:39:50,287 --> 00:39:51,756
clean-up clutter shows one piece of the

824
00:39:51,756 --> 00:39:53,890
house, but we're trying to get everybody to do that anyway.

825
00:39:53,890 --> 00:39:56,494
>> I understanding. But now we're mandateing and

826
00:39:56,494 --> 00:39:58,229
we're not asking them to voluntarily

827
00:39:58,229 --> 00:39:59,830
doing it and we're adding costs.

828
00:39:59,830 --> 00:40:03,330
I will say that Maui, Council, I called

829
00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:04,835
Maui and asked how come you didn't do

830
00:40:04,835 --> 00:40:06,637
this? You got [TPHA-EULD/] with the

831
00:40:06,637 --> 00:40:08,171
Fire and it was the costs and what they

832
00:40:08,171 --> 00:40:10,641
have done, they created vegetation

833
00:40:10,641 --> 00:40:14,912
requirements. >> So I will say that the Maui

834
00:40:14,912 --> 00:40:17,312
Administration absolutely is pursueing

835
00:40:18,850 --> 00:40:21,986
the wildfire Ordinance. >> The Council has to fas.

836
00:40:21,986 --> 00:40:24,855
I'm just telling you what the

837
00:40:24,855 --> 00:40:27,592
legislative branch is telling me and Council

838
00:40:27,592 --> 00:40:28,659
Member Holland talked to another

839
00:40:28,659 --> 00:40:30,461
Council Member who shared the concerns.

840
00:40:30,461 --> 00:40:33,397
We want to put people in home and we're

841
00:40:33,397 --> 00:40:36,734
adding costs just to put that out,

842
00:40:36,734 --> 00:40:38,336
voluntarily, education is key. >> Council Member Cowden.

843
00:40:38,336 --> 00:40:42,740
>> I think he was first. >> Council Member Carvalho

844
00:40:42,740 --> 00:40:45,410
follow-up on the clarification on the

845
00:40:45,410 --> 00:40:48,946
ADU part, explain that again? >> If it's a brand-new ADU,

846
00:40:48,946 --> 00:40:51,946
it's subject to the home-hardening,

847
00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:56,888
and five foot hard scape requirement.

848
00:40:56,888 --> 00:41:00,691
If the ADU is attached to another

849
00:41:00,691 --> 00:41:03,940
structure, that portion of the ADU is

850
00:41:03,940 --> 00:41:06,298
subject to home-hardening and 5' hard

851
00:41:06,298 --> 00:41:10,498
scape. It's subject to the 0-30'

852
00:41:10,835 --> 00:41:13,235
standards. >> It's not subject?

853
00:41:14,438 --> 00:41:16,707
Clarification -- >> Council Member Kaneshiro.

854
00:41:16,707 --> 00:41:20,307
>> Just going back to hardening around

855
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:25,716
the House, how do we get a better

856
00:41:25,716 --> 00:41:27,785
footing on the difference of these two?

857
00:41:27,785 --> 00:41:31,390
I have to go back to CK and see where

858
00:41:31,390 --> 00:41:34,926
they got their numbers from. >> I'm not saying that

859
00:41:34,926 --> 00:41:35,993
contractors are quoteing that.

860
00:41:35,993 --> 00:41:38,529
I was mentioning to Lance that a couple

861
00:41:38,529 --> 00:41:42,000
months ago my wife and I were putting

862
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,867
in a backflow preventer, which is

863
00:41:43,867 --> 00:41:46,867
required. My first quote was $27,000.

864
00:41:47,138 --> 00:41:51,542
So somebody said we're not going to get

865
00:41:51,542 --> 00:41:55,790
a backflow preventer. I got another quote.

866
00:41:55,790 --> 00:41:58,482
It was $3,000. We put the backflow in.

867
00:41:58,482 --> 00:42:00,952
I'm not saying that contractors are out

868
00:42:00,952 --> 00:42:02,953
there quoting $40 a square foot, but

869
00:42:02,953 --> 00:42:05,823
there are a number of contractors that

870
00:42:05,823 --> 00:42:08,759
-- the ones that I contacted not a

871
00:42:08,759 --> 00:42:11,280
single one came close to that number.

872
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:15,228
So I'm not saying there might be

873
00:42:15,767 --> 00:42:18,235
contractors out there quoting. >> How much is concrete a

874
00:42:18,235 --> 00:42:21,639
square foot -- I know they go by yards, but

875
00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:23,841
what is the per square foot cost for

876
00:42:23,841 --> 00:42:26,241
concrete? >> $300 a Cubic yard.

877
00:42:29,379 --> 00:42:32,383
It depends on the thickness of the

878
00:42:32,383 --> 00:42:34,252
sidewalk and looking at the numbers

879
00:42:34,252 --> 00:42:37,455
that flashed up on the screen I did a

880
00:42:37,455 --> 00:42:39,389
slab on grade price for what I did and

881
00:42:39,389 --> 00:42:42,261
came in at $45 a square foot for the

882
00:42:42,261 --> 00:42:44,595
entire house. >> For concrete?

883
00:42:44,595 --> 00:42:47,595
>> Concrete, labor, material, and I'm

884
00:42:47,598 --> 00:42:51,536
using union rates. Often times we use off-island

885
00:42:51,536 --> 00:42:52,737
contractors because we have labor

886
00:42:52,737 --> 00:42:55,206
shortages and those guys come in around

887
00:42:55,206 --> 00:42:58,900
$50 a square foot and I was surprised

888
00:42:58,900 --> 00:43:01,946
to see $90 for concrete. Maybe there's certain

889
00:43:01,946 --> 00:43:06,283
assumptions being made that I am not making and

890
00:43:06,283 --> 00:43:09,620
that we have different base lines on

891
00:43:09,620 --> 00:43:11,555
how we're pricing that.

892
00:43:11,555 --> 00:43:14,224
>> It would be just the thickness of

893
00:43:14,224 --> 00:43:18,424
the concrete. I'm wondering if it's $40 a

894
00:43:18,703 --> 00:43:19,971
square foot, that is not what I said

895
00:43:19,971 --> 00:43:21,971
earlier. It's $5, $6, $8.

896
00:43:25,377 --> 00:43:29,980
>> Concrete versus gravel. I think CK had 90 a square foot

897
00:43:29,980 --> 00:43:31,517
for gravel in this testimony and

898
00:43:31,517 --> 00:43:33,718
$40 a square foot for gravel.

899
00:43:33,718 --> 00:43:37,318
So I thereby thinking limited is

900
00:43:38,189 --> 00:43:40,257
saying that they are at $5 a square

901
00:43:40,257 --> 00:43:44,262
foot for gravel. >> For material and labor.

902
00:43:44,262 --> 00:43:46,662
>> Yes. >> Council Member Cowden.

903
00:43:47,132 --> 00:43:48,934
>> Mine, if you don't mind, do you

904
00:43:48,934 --> 00:43:50,336
have that copy of the Bill in front of

905
00:43:50,336 --> 00:43:52,203
you? >> Yeah.

906
00:43:52,203 --> 00:43:55,803
>> So I just have some specific

907
00:43:58,610 --> 00:44:02,210
questions. Page 1 in the first paragraph,

908
00:44:03,281 --> 00:44:06,840
in the section 1 with the purpose is

909
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,287
this purpose is in order to enhance

910
00:44:09,287 --> 00:44:11,220
public safety, reduce property loss

911
00:44:11,220 --> 00:44:13,357
and protect lives from wildfire

912
00:44:13,357 --> 00:44:16,357
hazards. So enhanceed public safety.

913
00:44:18,763 --> 00:44:21,900
That would read to me that 201H does

914
00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:24,102
not apply; right? Because we don't

915
00:44:24,102 --> 00:44:26,705
care whether people are wealthy or

916
00:44:26,705 --> 00:44:30,905
working. I'll just separate it that way.

917
00:44:33,978 --> 00:44:36,915
201H would that -- would any of this

918
00:44:36,915 --> 00:44:40,185
Bill 201H would not and for people that

919
00:44:40,185 --> 00:44:43,387
don't know, why don't you say what 201H

920
00:44:43,387 --> 00:44:45,723
is? >> A state process that is a

921
00:44:45,723 --> 00:44:48,723
vehicle for affordable housing to

922
00:44:50,995 --> 00:44:53,731
exempt out of County requirements, regulatory

923
00:44:53,731 --> 00:44:56,667
requirements. >> So because this is public

924
00:44:56,667 --> 00:44:58,270
safety, it wouldn't exempt out of that,

925
00:44:58,270 --> 00:45:01,400
correct? This would apply to affordable

926
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:02,873
housing as well as any housing, because

927
00:45:02,873 --> 00:45:05,273
it's a safety issue.

928
00:45:06,110 --> 00:45:07,678
>> Yes. >> It would.

929
00:45:07,678 --> 00:45:11,820
So I just wanted -- >> I'm sorry, yes what?

930
00:45:11,820 --> 00:45:14,885
>> It would apply to a 201h project.

931
00:45:14,885 --> 00:45:16,821
>> So 201H does not exempt that.

932
00:45:16,821 --> 00:45:20,240
So just wanting to be very clear, which

933
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:21,492
means affordable housing has to be held

934
00:45:21,492 --> 00:45:23,227
to the same standard, because we need

935
00:45:23,227 --> 00:45:25,163
to keep those people equally safe.

936
00:45:25,163 --> 00:45:31,369
That is the mindset on that. >> The mindset being some of

937
00:45:31,369 --> 00:45:32,636
our most vulnerability communities need

938
00:45:32,636 --> 00:45:34,372
to be protected from wildfire.

939
00:45:34,372 --> 00:45:37,972
>> Correct. On page 2, I wouldn't go

940
00:45:38,444 --> 00:45:40,378
through all of it, though I did go through all

941
00:45:40,378 --> 00:45:44,578
of it. On page 2, Section A, general

942
00:45:44,915 --> 00:45:48,853
provisions, item 1. You know, all lands on which a

943
00:45:48,853 --> 00:45:52,453
residential structure is proposed to be

944
00:45:54,191 --> 00:45:56,461
constructed, and it breaks down these

945
00:45:56,461 --> 00:45:59,397
pieces, but all improvements to this

946
00:45:59,397 --> 00:46:01,799
Article shall comply; right? So shall

947
00:46:01,799 --> 00:46:06,404
means it has to. And the interpretation is --

948
00:46:06,404 --> 00:46:08,873
the interpretation of this article

949
00:46:08,873 --> 00:46:11,750
all provisions shall be considered

950
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:14,675
as a minimum requirement and anybody

951
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,347
building a house, shall, meaning they

952
00:46:17,347 --> 00:46:19,829
have to, it's mandatory and I went how

953
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:21,762
to the different "shalls and "Mays."

954
00:46:21,762 --> 00:46:24,980
And there's a lot of [SHA-LG/]s.

955
00:46:24,980 --> 00:46:27,101
shalls. I didn't count them all, but

956
00:46:27,101 --> 00:46:30,380
they apply to the land itself.

957
00:46:30,380 --> 00:46:35,438
The House builder. And there's a lot of "Mays."

958
00:46:39,447 --> 00:46:43,647
Which means it's up to the Admin.

959
00:46:45,853 --> 00:46:50,653
So when I see these "Mays" I'm just

960
00:46:51,860 --> 00:46:54,729
wondering if it's at the discretion of

961
00:46:54,729 --> 00:46:55,863
Administration whether you have to

962
00:46:55,863 --> 00:46:58,867
comply or you don't have to comply?

963
00:46:58,867 --> 00:47:03,667
If you had a different Fire Chief, or

964
00:47:03,671 --> 00:47:05,340
Planning Director, does that mean

965
00:47:05,340 --> 00:47:09,540
things would change? >> I don't think so.

966
00:47:09,543 --> 00:47:12,947
I guess I would ask which "Mays" are

967
00:47:12,947 --> 00:47:14,549
you referring to? >> All right, because there's

968
00:47:14,549 --> 00:47:17,850
a lot of "Mays" in here.

969
00:47:17,850 --> 00:47:21,285
I will find one. Here is one.

970
00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:25,930
In consultation with the Fire Chief and

971
00:47:25,930 --> 00:47:27,630
all respective property owners provide

972
00:47:27,630 --> 00:47:30,630
written consent Planning Director "may"

973
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:33,300
reduce minimum distances between

974
00:47:33,300 --> 00:47:35,303
structures proposed on a property for

975
00:47:35,303 --> 00:47:36,571
shared-wall construction, if the

976
00:47:36,571 --> 00:47:41,371
baguette walls or shared walls respective structures are

977
00:47:43,511 --> 00:47:44,712
construeed with non-combustible materials,

978
00:47:44,712 --> 00:47:45,312
which makes sense.

979
00:47:45,312 --> 00:47:47,783
You have a cinder block house and maybe

980
00:47:47,783 --> 00:47:49,451
you don't have to stuck with all of

981
00:47:49,451 --> 00:47:51,719
this. So it's "may." It's up to you

982
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:52,988
whether they do have to or don't have

983
00:47:52,988 --> 00:47:55,988
to. If they have non-combustible

984
00:47:57,570 --> 00:48:00,657
walls there's less of this that

985
00:48:01,930 --> 00:48:03,865
applies. >> I mean, I wouldn't have any

986
00:48:03,865 --> 00:48:07,668
objection to -- as long as all property

987
00:48:07,668 --> 00:48:11,268
owners consent, as the sitting Planning

988
00:48:13,741 --> 00:48:16,741
Director would not have objection.

989
00:48:17,344 --> 00:48:21,549
>> I'm not trying to put it into a

990
00:48:21,549 --> 00:48:24,418
"shall "but to point out the difference.

991
00:48:24,418 --> 00:48:28,220
One person builds their house I would say, and some of the

992
00:48:28,220 --> 00:48:30,424
architects that we spoke to were excited

993
00:48:30,424 --> 00:48:31,826
about that option, because right now

994
00:48:31,826 --> 00:48:33,270
you cannot build to the property

995
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:37,432
line. That is a new liberty, and so

996
00:48:37,432 --> 00:48:38,767
it actually provides more freedom

997
00:48:38,767 --> 00:48:40,502
and options to the property owner.

998
00:48:40,502 --> 00:48:43,637
>> Right. I talked to property developers

999
00:48:43,637 --> 00:48:47,837
who felt like if they were forced

1000
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:52,242
into a having to build duplexes for

1001
00:48:53,314 --> 00:48:54,448
their affordable homes that they

1002
00:48:54,448 --> 00:48:56,784
probably wouldn't be able to sell them.

1003
00:48:56,784 --> 00:48:58,986
I had that conversation also, because

1004
00:48:58,986 --> 00:49:02,570
of the lot size this was definitely

1005
00:49:02,570 --> 00:49:06,728
some friction on it. So I'm just looking at that.

1006
00:49:06,728 --> 00:49:08,329
And then I will look at the bottom of

1007
00:49:08,329 --> 00:49:11,929
page 11. This is about the periodic

1008
00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:15,300
review. It says at least once a year

1009
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:16,538
following the effective date of this

1010
00:49:16,538 --> 00:49:20,138
Article or more frequently as deemed

1011
00:49:22,690 --> 00:49:24,959
necessary for the Administration shall review

1012
00:49:24,959 --> 00:49:27,962
the requirements of this Article in

1013
00:49:27,962 --> 00:49:30,962
consultation with wildfire subject-matter experts.

1014
00:49:31,232 --> 00:49:36,320
So it has a one-year piece in there.

1015
00:49:40,174 --> 00:49:42,310
I look at all these reports that we

1016
00:49:42,310 --> 00:49:46,470
need to have and it's curious to me

1017
00:49:46,470 --> 00:49:49,490
that even when it's every ten years or

1018
00:49:49,490 --> 00:49:51,452
even every 20 years, we rarely get

1019
00:49:51,452 --> 00:49:53,521
those reviews done in that time period.

1020
00:49:53,521 --> 00:49:56,390
How likely do you think it is that

1021
00:49:56,390 --> 00:49:58,590
we'll keep reviewing this every year?

1022
00:49:58,590 --> 00:50:02,663
>> Well, it's required for the Building Code Section is

1023
00:50:02,663 --> 00:50:04,399
required that report is required for the

1024
00:50:04,399 --> 00:50:07,999
Mayor and other sections Chapter 8 is

1025
00:50:08,402 --> 00:50:10,271
required to be given to the Planning

1026
00:50:10,271 --> 00:50:13,271
Commission. >> I see it's required.

1027
00:50:13,274 --> 00:50:16,210
So is updating our General Plan.

1028
00:50:16,210 --> 00:50:22,810
So is updating our water and development plan and they don't

1029
00:50:25,352 --> 00:50:27,755
lap. >> The Planning Department is

1030
00:50:27,755 --> 00:50:30,224
updating all of their plan and updated

1031
00:50:30,224 --> 00:50:30,891
the General Plan.

1032
00:50:30,891 --> 00:50:34,361
>> How many years in between? We have done it twice since we

1033
00:50:34,361 --> 00:50:36,231
started and it was supposed to be done

1034
00:50:36,231 --> 00:50:37,300
every ten years.

1035
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:41,301
You Did one of them and thank you

1036
00:50:41,301 --> 00:50:43,770
so much for doing an excellent job.

1037
00:50:43,770 --> 00:50:46,973
>> Point well-taken. >> My point is when we can't

1038
00:50:46,973 --> 00:50:51,773
get a every ten year or every five

1039
00:50:51,912 --> 00:50:55,649
year and I'm just looking at these

1040
00:50:55,649 --> 00:50:57,985
pieces. I will stop asking questions at

1041
00:50:57,985 --> 00:50:59,453
the moment, because I went through

1042
00:50:59,453 --> 00:51:02,923
this whole thing and I had a number

1043
00:51:02,923 --> 00:51:04,191
of things that I looked at.

1044
00:51:04,191 --> 00:51:07,191
>> Thank you. >> Any additional questions,

1045
00:51:10,798 --> 00:51:11,999
Council Members?

1046
00:51:11,999 --> 00:51:14,268
Council Member Kaneshiro. >> I don't have any questions.

1047
00:51:14,268 --> 00:51:18,710
I know there are a few Amendments.

1048
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:20,730
>> Well before that, I have questions

1049
00:51:20,730 --> 00:51:23,344
for water and housing. >> Council Member Holland?

1050
00:51:23,344 --> 00:51:25,278
>> I was just going to mention I think

1051
00:51:25,278 --> 00:51:28,878
some of my suggested Amendments will

1052
00:51:28,883 --> 00:51:30,551
address what is being talked about now.

1053
00:51:30,551 --> 00:51:35,351
>> I have one question. Council Member Cowden, actually

1054
00:51:36,223 --> 00:51:38,250
I just blanked out.

1055
00:51:38,250 --> 00:51:40,561
Council Member Cowden. >> That would take a change.

1056
00:51:40,561 --> 00:51:44,231
I want water and housing. >> So it looks like we have

1057
00:51:44,231 --> 00:51:47,831
questions for our Water Department and

1058
00:51:48,303 --> 00:51:50,303
Housing Department.

1059
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,248
>> Adam, are you able to come up?

1060
00:52:18,599 --> 00:52:20,535
>> Council Member Cowden, questions.

1061
00:52:20,535 --> 00:52:23,757
>> The first question I would like to

1062
00:52:23,757 --> 00:52:24,559
do for housing first and water is the

1063
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:28,759
same question. Can you please help us

1064
00:52:28,896 --> 00:52:33,960
understand if this impacts any of your

1065
00:52:33,501 --> 00:52:35,360
existing plans for how we're going to be doing

1066
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:35,970
our affordable housing on the

1067
00:52:35,970 --> 00:52:40,170
properties that we have purchased and done

1068
00:52:40,441 --> 00:52:41,576
-- we have done a lot -- you have

1069
00:52:41,576 --> 00:52:44,379
done a lot of work, you know, on having

1070
00:52:44,379 --> 00:52:46,379
this housing.

1071
00:52:46,380 --> 00:52:48,716
Will it create a redesign issue, or

1072
00:52:48,716 --> 00:52:52,916
will it be fine? >> Adam Roversi, Housing

1073
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,993
Director. So I think it depends on the

1074
00:52:58,993 --> 00:53:01,393
stage of the project.

1075
00:53:01,595 --> 00:53:05,332
So Lima Ola has received its permits

1076
00:53:05,332 --> 00:53:08,469
already. So I think phase 1 is done,

1077
00:53:08,469 --> 00:53:12,720
phase 2 permits are pending and I think

1078
00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:14,542
once the permits are issued is

1079
00:53:14,542 --> 00:53:16,100
approved as-is and wouldn't need to

1080
00:53:16,100 --> 00:53:17,611
necessarily comply.

1081
00:53:17,611 --> 00:53:20,348
Our future projects Kilauea, Waimea, we

1082
00:53:20,348 --> 00:53:23,884
have concept plans developed that they

1083
00:53:23,884 --> 00:53:26,286
are not approved in any way yet, but we

1084
00:53:26,286 --> 00:53:29,886
have represented to the community --

1085
00:53:29,890 --> 00:53:32,225
those projects have generally sought to

1086
00:53:32,225 --> 00:53:34,494
do small lot sizes to have lots of

1087
00:53:34,494 --> 00:53:36,764
homes to keep them more affordable, to

1088
00:53:36,764 --> 00:53:40,634
do more houses on smaller lots, smaller

1089
00:53:40,634 --> 00:53:42,903
homes. We haven't gotten to point in

1090
00:53:42,903 --> 00:53:44,505
those projects of designing exactly

1091
00:53:44,505 --> 00:53:47,108
what the House is going to look like,

1092
00:53:47,108 --> 00:53:51,645
the foot print and how far away it is

1093
00:53:51,645 --> 00:53:54,645
from other bills potentially with

1094
00:54:03,858 --> 00:54:06,393
materials, however, I think the "may"

1095
00:54:06,393 --> 00:54:10,531
sections of the Bill, I think to my level

1096
00:54:10,531 --> 00:54:12,466
of understanding, and I'm not an

1097
00:54:12,466 --> 00:54:14,669
expert on the language as much as you

1098
00:54:14,669 --> 00:54:17,404
folks are, or Ka'aina, and his

1099
00:54:17,404 --> 00:54:19,607
consultants. But I think there's enough

1100
00:54:19,607 --> 00:54:24,110
wiggle room that we can modify our designs

1101
00:54:24,110 --> 00:54:26,480
of the homes, still keep them

1102
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:29,416
affordable and meet the distancesing

1103
00:54:29,416 --> 00:54:32,353
requirements, or through the "may" portions of

1104
00:54:32,353 --> 00:54:35,353
the Bill, seek reasonable accommodations

1105
00:54:37,558 --> 00:54:39,920
to achieve our goals of small

1106
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,898
loting and high-density and still meet the

1107
00:54:42,898 --> 00:54:44,432
general parameters of the wildfire

1108
00:54:44,432 --> 00:54:48,320
Bill. You haven't seen the cost

1109
00:54:52,707 --> 00:54:55,843
estimates that the Chair shared earlier.

1110
00:54:55,843 --> 00:54:58,179
As far as the potential cost increases

1111
00:54:58,179 --> 00:55:01,779
associated with the Bill to affordacle

1112
00:55:03,650 --> 00:55:06,387
homes my preliminary understanding was

1113
00:55:06,387 --> 00:55:09,191
that the increased costs in the current

1114
00:55:09,191 --> 00:55:12,727
Bill would be more than offset by the

1115
00:55:12,727 --> 00:55:16,927
savings coming from no longer having to

1116
00:55:17,531 --> 00:55:20,000
pay FRC charges that the costs are less

1117
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,404
than the savings that with result was

1118
00:55:22,404 --> 00:55:24,272
my preliminary understanding based on

1119
00:55:24,272 --> 00:55:26,207
the information and projection that I

1120
00:55:26,207 --> 00:55:31,607
had seen so far. >> So then when you talked

1121
00:55:32,140 --> 00:55:34,884
about well you already have your Lima Ola

1122
00:55:34,884 --> 00:55:35,951
1 permitted.

1123
00:55:35,951 --> 00:55:37,886
If it wasn't permitted, would you have

1124
00:55:37,886 --> 00:55:43,286
had to change those plans? >> I think the single-family

1125
00:55:43,691 --> 00:55:48,970
homes at Lima Ola I think are too close

1126
00:55:48,970 --> 00:55:49,365
together to meet the current

1127
00:55:49,365 --> 00:55:52,702
requirements. So we would have had to made

1128
00:55:52,702 --> 00:55:53,502
some changes.

1129
00:55:53,502 --> 00:55:56,505
I think, if I understanding the Bill

1130
00:55:56,505 --> 00:55:58,974
correctly, we could have chosen different siding material, for

1131
00:55:58,974 --> 00:56:02,978
example. Had a metal roof ined stead of

1132
00:56:02,978 --> 00:56:04,379
an asphalt shingle roof and used

1133
00:56:04,379 --> 00:56:06,781
-- we could have gotten exceptions

1134
00:56:06,781 --> 00:56:10,381
for the 30' requirements, and would

1135
00:56:13,121 --> 00:56:13,989
have required different materials

1136
00:56:13,989 --> 00:56:15,590
and the process of consultation with

1137
00:56:15,590 --> 00:56:18,590
the Fire Chief to come to an agreement,

1138
00:56:18,590 --> 00:56:21,659
because we have used these Fireproof

1139
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,200
non-combustible materials to have vary

1140
00:56:31,139 --> 00:56:35,811
from the setback requirements. >> I will ask water a few

1141
00:56:35,811 --> 00:56:37,479
questions and I want to open up for

1142
00:56:37,479 --> 00:56:39,879
others to ask questions.

1143
00:56:45,954 --> 00:56:47,423
Director Roversi, you support this

1144
00:56:47,423 --> 00:56:49,423
Bill, correct? >> Yes.

1145
00:56:50,910 --> 00:56:51,492
Yes. I do.

1146
00:56:51,492 --> 00:56:55,692
I think it's important to protect from

1147
00:56:56,898 --> 00:56:59,767
fires. I am not an expert on the Bill.

1148
00:56:59,767 --> 00:57:06,367
I have read through it. I think it's workable for our

1149
00:57:06,775 --> 00:57:08,577
projects. I will leave it at that.

1150
00:57:08,577 --> 00:57:12,177
>> One more on that, related to

1151
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,585
density in areas, like tsunami zones,

1152
00:57:16,585 --> 00:57:20,322
and all of our Fire zones we talk about

1153
00:57:20,322 --> 00:57:23,224
in this case without the exits and the

1154
00:57:23,224 --> 00:57:26,224
concerns around density in areas

1155
00:57:27,262 --> 00:57:28,730
associated with higher Fire risk.

1156
00:57:28,730 --> 00:57:33,530
Do you feel like this makes it anymore

1157
00:57:33,870 --> 00:57:36,337
problematic for us in regards to public

1158
00:57:36,337 --> 00:57:40,341
safety or do you feel this Bill addresses the safety needs of

1159
00:57:40,341 --> 00:57:42,677
higher density -- like increasing

1160
00:57:42,677 --> 00:57:44,280
densities in areas to address the affordable

1161
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:48,283
housing? >> Well, I will have to admit

1162
00:57:48,283 --> 00:57:51,152
I'm not clear on the access

1163
00:57:51,152 --> 00:57:52,688
requirements. So I'm not prepared to talk

1164
00:57:52,688 --> 00:57:55,880
about that. >> Thank you.

1165
00:57:55,691 --> 00:57:58,691
>> Council Member Cowden. >> Water Department.

1166
00:58:01,562 --> 00:58:05,167
Director Tait. I would like to hear your

1167
00:58:05,167 --> 00:58:07,969
perspective on -- I want to allow you to

1168
00:58:07,969 --> 00:58:10,972
say what your thoughts are before I

1169
00:58:10,972 --> 00:58:13,372
drill-down on different questions.

1170
00:58:13,508 --> 00:58:16,508
>> Thank you, Council Member Cowden.

1171
00:58:16,978 --> 00:58:18,780
Chair Bulosan I would like to make a

1172
00:58:18,780 --> 00:58:20,849
statement before I address any specific

1173
00:58:20,849 --> 00:58:22,550
questions. >> Go ahead.

1174
00:58:22,550 --> 00:58:24,191
Thank you. >> Thank you.

1175
00:58:24,191 --> 00:58:25,859
First of all, there is no perfect

1176
00:58:25,859 --> 00:58:30,464
solution to this issue. We can talk six months in this

1177
00:58:30,464 --> 00:58:32,866
room nonstop and we're not going to

1178
00:58:32,866 --> 00:58:35,335
have a perfect solution to this issue.

1179
00:58:35,335 --> 00:58:38,271
The reason I state is not the issue

1180
00:58:38,271 --> 00:58:41,740
itself, but whether it's housing

1181
00:58:41,740 --> 00:58:44,674
development, business, schools, hospitals, play grounds,

1182
00:58:45,478 --> 00:58:47,415
whatever K everything in life starts with

1183
00:58:47,415 --> 00:58:50,415
water. Unfortunately we have not

1184
00:58:51,751 --> 00:58:53,887
followed that model on the Island of Kaua'i.

1185
00:58:53,887 --> 00:58:58,959
So I state that regretfully. I also state that because of

1186
00:58:58,959 --> 00:59:02,559
what I have learned in last

1187
00:59:02,629 --> 00:59:04,564
four-and-a-half years of what we're making up.

1188
00:59:04,564 --> 00:59:09,436
So please let me continue. When I arrived on Kaua'i, I had

1189
00:59:09,436 --> 00:59:13,636
my eyes opened to the little water

1190
00:59:13,974 --> 00:59:15,509
infrastructure that exists here.

1191
00:59:15,509 --> 00:59:19,709
What we have is a cent century-old

1192
00:59:20,581 --> 00:59:24,181
system that was develop by Plantation

1193
00:59:24,451 --> 00:59:25,652
owners, private landowners and some by

1194
00:59:25,652 --> 00:59:27,587
the Department of Water, some by people

1195
00:59:27,587 --> 00:59:31,524
we don't even know, but the island was

1196
00:59:31,524 --> 00:59:33,794
developed with various systems and

1197
00:59:33,794 --> 00:59:36,596
forms of systems over the decades.

1198
00:59:36,596 --> 00:59:39,599
And because of what I just said, it

1199
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:43,199
directly and daily impacts the ability

1200
00:59:45,205 --> 00:59:50,605
of Chief Gibson. It's an emotional issue for me,

1201
00:59:52,212 --> 00:59:53,413
to do his job.

1202
00:59:53,413 --> 00:59:58,213
So because of that, we started our own

1203
01:00:01,621 --> 01:00:05,221
Planning process after 35 years, we now

1204
01:00:07,930 --> 01:00:08,628
have a Water Use and Development Plan,

1205
01:00:08,628 --> 01:00:13,428
thank you to Michael and the engineering Staff.

1206
01:00:15,635 --> 01:00:21,441
We didn't have that before. We didn't have any guaranty of

1207
01:00:21,441 --> 01:00:22,309
life before that.

1208
01:00:22,309 --> 01:00:26,913
We still have shortages. We will have shortages for

1209
01:00:26,913 --> 01:00:29,983
another 40-50 years until our new water

1210
01:00:29,983 --> 01:00:31,584
system investment plan is actually put

1211
01:00:31,584 --> 01:00:33,386
in the ground.

1212
01:00:33,386 --> 01:00:37,924
So that is just the facts of life here.

1213
01:00:37,924 --> 01:00:41,524
I have to compliment Fire Chief's

1214
01:00:41,595 --> 01:00:43,797
success in doing the best he can with

1215
01:00:43,797 --> 01:00:48,735
what he was dealt. I also thank the many Councils

1216
01:00:48,735 --> 01:00:50,804
over the decades that have gone through

1217
01:00:50,804 --> 01:00:52,607
the struggle of everything you have

1218
01:00:52,607 --> 01:00:53,473
brought up.

1219
01:00:53,473 --> 01:00:56,810
Nothing here is easy. It's our location.

1220
01:00:56,810 --> 01:01:00,680
It's our lack of funding. The Water Department has not

1221
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,680
been sufficiently funded since its

1222
01:01:03,683 --> 01:01:05,352
inception. Those are all facts.

1223
01:01:05,352 --> 01:01:10,152
They are not my opinion. Those are facts.

1224
01:01:11,825 --> 01:01:15,295
Having been in the water business for

1225
01:01:15,295 --> 01:01:18,895
45 years, it's always emotional to me.

1226
01:01:19,699 --> 01:01:23,899
The scenario modeling by the group here

1227
01:01:24,978 --> 01:01:29,178
Planning, housing, Fire, water, Council, elected, non-elected

1228
01:01:30,985 --> 01:01:33,985
officials is admirable to be

1229
01:01:34,388 --> 01:01:36,788
complimented, to be commended.

1230
01:01:37,458 --> 01:01:40,528
And it results in what do we do moving

1231
01:01:40,528 --> 01:01:45,332
forward to best prepare? Unfortunately that is where we

1232
01:01:45,332 --> 01:01:46,867
get to bills like this one, because

1233
01:01:46,867 --> 01:01:49,537
it's really a matter of opinion.

1234
01:01:49,537 --> 01:01:52,205
; right? It's not an agreeable

1235
01:01:52,205 --> 01:01:55,409
subject that we can all say yep, we're

1236
01:01:55,409 --> 01:02:00,481
100% in favor of it. If you put Fire, the Fire issue

1237
01:02:00,481 --> 01:02:04,810
into context, you got flee subjects.

1238
01:02:04,285 --> 01:02:08,880
three subjects, vulneribility. You have got that verse lost

1239
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:09,824
revenue of others whether it's housing,

1240
01:02:09,824 --> 01:02:11,824
water, or others.

1241
01:02:14,227 --> 01:02:16,631
And then you have the worst of all, the

1242
01:02:16,631 --> 01:02:22,310
loss of life. To get to back to the

1243
01:02:22,437 --> 01:02:24,437
[TPAO-EUFRPLT/]. Fire Department.

1244
01:02:24,972 --> 01:02:28,376
I commend Chief Gibson for the application of best practices

1245
01:02:28,376 --> 01:02:31,976
to minimize the loss of life.

1246
01:02:34,248 --> 01:02:37,117
The Fire Department's partnering with

1247
01:02:37,117 --> 01:02:41,317
the Department of Water to locate and

1248
01:02:42,856 --> 01:02:46,456
Mark hydrants where new Staff can

1249
01:02:46,460 --> 01:02:48,795
address rather than searching when the

1250
01:02:48,795 --> 01:02:53,400
Fire flames are going on. We have worked hand in glove

1251
01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:56,203
with Fire to help them learn the system,

1252
01:02:56,203 --> 01:02:58,205
the water system, the available

1253
01:02:58,205 --> 01:02:59,940
areas and non-available areas, Chief has

1254
01:02:59,940 --> 01:03:04,140
been on the [#50-EU8D/] island long

1255
01:03:05,747 --> 01:03:07,348
enough to know where they are exist.

1256
01:03:07,348 --> 01:03:11,418
Fire and water responders do their best

1257
01:03:11,418 --> 01:03:12,552
job when resources are in place and

1258
01:03:12,552 --> 01:03:19,752
unfortunately they are not. How much of a loss to the Water

1259
01:03:20,161 --> 01:03:22,629
Department of FRC is a relevant issue

1260
01:03:22,629 --> 01:03:25,320
because of our financial situation.

1261
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:26,968
It's also an irrelevant issue compared

1262
01:03:26,968 --> 01:03:34,168
to the loss of life. What that value of life is? On

1263
01:03:35,843 --> 01:03:38,779
an annual basis, the Department of

1264
01:03:38,779 --> 01:03:41,179
Water receives anywhere between

1265
01:03:43,117 --> 01:03:45,517
$800,000 and $2 million in FRC.

1266
01:03:46,319 --> 01:03:49,919
That is not all single-family housing.

1267
01:03:50,323 --> 01:03:53,323
Single-family housing last year was

1268
01:03:55,663 --> 01:03:59,263
$1.1 million. Some would lead with the

1269
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:02,136
underlying question is the loss of FRC

1270
01:04:02,136 --> 01:04:04,738
greater than the loss of life?

1271
01:04:04,738 --> 01:04:09,610
Of course not. There is no value cap on the

1272
01:04:09,610 --> 01:04:10,344
loss of life.

1273
01:04:10,344 --> 01:04:14,348
There is a value cap on everything the

1274
01:04:14,348 --> 01:04:16,685
Water Department does based on what our

1275
01:04:16,685 --> 01:04:19,419
costs are. Unfortunately for us, we have

1276
01:04:19,419 --> 01:04:22,340
no power to eliminate legislation.

1277
01:04:22,340 --> 01:04:24,703
We simply do what Fire does, what

1278
01:04:24,703 --> 01:04:28,974
Police does, what water does. We adapt, we react, we

1279
01:04:28,974 --> 01:04:31,510
overcome, and we continue to provide the service

1280
01:04:31,510 --> 01:04:34,647
the best we can with what we're

1281
01:04:34,647 --> 01:04:37,649
given. The same question you asked

1282
01:04:37,649 --> 01:04:39,651
Adam, do we support the Bill?

1283
01:04:39,651 --> 01:04:42,121
We support any Bill that helps minimize

1284
01:04:42,121 --> 01:04:46,921
the loss of life. Unfortunately, we can only

1285
01:04:48,260 --> 01:04:51,131
support that as far as our resources allow

1286
01:04:51,131 --> 01:04:55,931
us. >> So when we look at FRC and

1287
01:04:56,602 --> 01:05:00,338
I was in the Water Department meeting.

1288
01:05:00,338 --> 01:05:03,742
I'm kind of shocked and stunned when

1289
01:05:03,742 --> 01:05:06,144
what I believeed subsidization of this

1290
01:05:06,144 --> 01:05:10,944
effort is put on water by removing some

1291
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:13,352
of your income, is that something that

1292
01:05:13,352 --> 01:05:19,240
the Board could choose to undo? Like when we pass this Bill, is

1293
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,240
it already passed?

1294
01:05:21,293 --> 01:05:24,364
I was sitting there and listening?

1295
01:05:24,364 --> 01:05:27,566
>> Our Board has passed it in the

1296
01:05:27,566 --> 01:05:32,438
current form that it's in. That is all they to go off at

1297
01:05:32,438 --> 01:05:36,975
the time. Staff was not -- we didn't have

1298
01:05:36,975 --> 01:05:38,711
the ability to research or do any

1299
01:05:38,711 --> 01:05:39,911
kind of preparation.

1300
01:05:39,911 --> 01:05:42,248
We were -- that was put on the agenda,

1301
01:05:42,248 --> 01:05:47,520
and the Board voted on it. We would react a different way

1302
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,122
if we said we were flush with money.

1303
01:05:50,122 --> 01:05:52,190
But unfortunately we are just the

1304
01:05:52,190 --> 01:05:53,926
opposite; right? We have never been

1305
01:05:53,926 --> 01:05:56,610
in a financial situation as far as I

1306
01:05:56,610 --> 01:05:58,797
can go back in records the Water

1307
01:05:58,797 --> 01:06:00,599
Department has never been adequately

1308
01:06:00,599 --> 01:06:02,534
funded. And that means the Fire

1309
01:06:02,534 --> 01:06:05,403
Department has never been adequately

1310
01:06:05,403 --> 01:06:08,340
protected. So I will keep reiterateing

1311
01:06:08,340 --> 01:06:09,674
that is the bottom-line for us.

1312
01:06:09,674 --> 01:06:13,411
>> When I look into that, when we look

1313
01:06:13,411 --> 01:06:15,881
at Fire flow protection, I would say

1314
01:06:15,881 --> 01:06:17,550
it's inadequate by probably 30% of the

1315
01:06:17,550 --> 01:06:20,850
island. Is that a close guess?

1316
01:06:20,850 --> 01:06:23,850
>> It's a Chief Gibson question.

1317
01:06:24,489 --> 01:06:27,920
The Water Department under -- it's been

1318
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:29,361
-- when I got here it was 35 years

1319
01:06:29,361 --> 01:06:32,230
since we did a water use plan that are

1320
01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:33,965
required by the State every five years,

1321
01:06:33,965 --> 01:06:36,965
Michael? We had been 35 years.

1322
01:06:36,970 --> 01:06:40,570
Okay? It has been documented and

1323
01:06:41,907 --> 01:06:43,375
proven through that Water Use and

1324
01:06:43,375 --> 01:06:45,443
Development Plan the Island of Kaua'i will

1325
01:06:45,443 --> 01:06:47,843
never be without water.

1326
01:06:49,848 --> 01:06:51,917
Doesn't matter what you want to measure

1327
01:06:51,917 --> 01:06:55,540
that with, we're one of the top two or

1328
01:06:55,540 --> 01:06:58,523
three wettest spots on the planet and

1329
01:06:58,523 --> 01:07:00,392
well always have an abundance of water.

1330
01:07:00,392 --> 01:07:02,527
What we don't is a distribution system

1331
01:07:02,527 --> 01:07:06,798
and that is the funding issue and that

1332
01:07:06,798 --> 01:07:10,398
directly impacts Fire's ability to put

1333
01:07:10,402 --> 01:07:12,337
fires out -- >> Does the Water Department

1334
01:07:12,337 --> 01:07:15,140
or is it the Fire Department's question?

1335
01:07:15,140 --> 01:07:18,740
Like there's many places, like power

1336
01:07:19,211 --> 01:07:24,110
house road in Wainiha and five or six

1337
01:07:25,766 --> 01:07:30,370
roads in Kilauea. There is roads in Hanalei that

1338
01:07:30,370 --> 01:07:32,239
don't even have a standpipe.

1339
01:07:32,239 --> 01:07:34,842
They have a standpipe at the highway

1340
01:07:34,842 --> 01:07:39,420
and certainly I think Waimea Canyon has

1341
01:07:39,380 --> 01:07:42,980
that problem and Hanapepe has some

1342
01:07:45,118 --> 01:07:48,655
features up there. Who is responsible for putting

1343
01:07:48,655 --> 01:07:49,856
those in?

1344
01:07:49,856 --> 01:07:52,856
You must be somewhat responsible

1345
01:07:54,262 --> 01:07:55,862
because you have to provide the water.

1346
01:07:55,862 --> 01:07:57,931
Who determines when those pipes go in?

1347
01:07:57,931 --> 01:08:00,931
>> Funding. >> Funding, who makes the

1348
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:01,935
zinc? decision?

1349
01:08:01,935 --> 01:08:06,740
Is it Fire or water? >> Just to clarify, it's for

1350
01:08:06,740 --> 01:08:07,808
the relateed Bill.

1351
01:08:07,808 --> 01:08:10,410
>> It is related. >> You are asking based on

1352
01:08:10,410 --> 01:08:11,611
new development in this area that

1353
01:08:11,611 --> 01:08:12,746
would be affected by this Bill?

1354
01:08:12,746 --> 01:08:17,151
>> I would say, if I were to clarify

1355
01:08:17,151 --> 01:08:21,351
your clarifying is that we have a

1356
01:08:28,628 --> 01:08:30,970
deliverable water shortage and say in

1357
01:08:30,970 --> 01:08:31,632
Kilauea, because that is a where I

1358
01:08:31,632 --> 01:08:34,100
live. We have a shortage of water,

1359
01:08:34,100 --> 01:08:36,503
correct? So he is [TKPHO-D/]ing his head

1360
01:08:36,503 --> 01:08:37,104
yes for the record.

1361
01:08:37,104 --> 01:08:41,304
When we have a water shortage and

1362
01:08:41,909 --> 01:08:44,111
building new places, in any of these

1363
01:08:44,111 --> 01:08:45,646
places they wouldn't get -- I don't

1364
01:08:45,646 --> 01:08:48,183
know if we can get their Fire flow

1365
01:08:48,183 --> 01:08:51,510
protection? Can you put a new hydrant in

1366
01:08:51,510 --> 01:08:53,587
areas that have Fire -- that have water

1367
01:08:53,587 --> 01:08:57,187
shortage? >> We have not practiced that.

1368
01:08:58,925 --> 01:09:01,729
We have not been putting Fire hydrants

1369
01:09:01,729 --> 01:09:03,531
anywhere where we're not allowing

1370
01:09:03,531 --> 01:09:07,100
residential. The man to my left would be

1371
01:09:07,100 --> 01:09:09,803
really happy -- the man to my left

1372
01:09:09,803 --> 01:09:12,539
would be very happy, if we had

1373
01:09:12,539 --> 01:09:14,808
tremendous amount of funding because he would

1374
01:09:14,808 --> 01:09:17,100
have a tremendous amount of housing.

1375
01:09:17,100 --> 01:09:21,815
We just don't have it. The guy sitting behind me would

1376
01:09:21,815 --> 01:09:24,951
be fantastically happy if we had

1377
01:09:24,951 --> 01:09:25,752
200 more hydrants.

1378
01:09:25,752 --> 01:09:27,821
We don't have it because the system

1379
01:09:27,821 --> 01:09:29,690
will not provide it, because the

1380
01:09:29,690 --> 01:09:31,250
funding for the system has never been

1381
01:09:31,250 --> 01:09:33,427
there. When we came up with the Water

1382
01:09:33,427 --> 01:09:35,162
Use and Development Plan, we followed

1383
01:09:35,162 --> 01:09:37,497
that with a water system investment plan

1384
01:09:37,497 --> 01:09:39,900
as I call the ones that I did on the

1385
01:09:39,900 --> 01:09:43,236
mainland and we have a water system

1386
01:09:43,236 --> 01:09:44,772
investment plan and many of you have

1387
01:09:44,772 --> 01:09:48,109
seen it, about $1.3 billion in today's

1388
01:09:48,109 --> 01:09:52,112
numbers. By the time that system goes it

1389
01:09:52,112 --> 01:09:55,712
will be 3-4 billion total; right?

1390
01:09:56,650 --> 01:10:00,850
We're now just finishing our first in 13

1391
01:10:03,123 --> 01:10:05,523
years rate approval process.

1392
01:10:06,393 --> 01:10:07,994
Yesterday's we had a Public Hearing and

1393
01:10:07,994 --> 01:10:12,733
we had one person show up. Virtually no one showed up

1394
01:10:12,733 --> 01:10:17,533
in-person. We have been out in the public

1395
01:10:18,272 --> 01:10:18,872
for 20-23 meetings.

1396
01:10:18,872 --> 01:10:21,740
We have one step left to go to the

1397
01:10:21,740 --> 01:10:24,740
State small business regional Review

1398
01:10:26,965 --> 01:10:29,835
Board, they unanimously gave us approval a month ago and we'll

1399
01:10:29,835 --> 01:10:33,370
go back because the Public Hearing is

1400
01:10:33,370 --> 01:10:35,240
over, but that is 13 years old.

1401
01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,709
When you combine all of those things,

1402
01:10:37,709 --> 01:10:39,311
the questions you are asking, Council

1403
01:10:39,311 --> 01:10:41,446
Member Cowden, all relate to that.

1404
01:10:41,446 --> 01:10:42,981
>> Bottom-line, we don't have the

1405
01:10:42,981 --> 01:10:45,490
money to have the water to be doing any

1406
01:10:45,490 --> 01:10:49,249
of it, that is the bottom-line? >> Yes.

1407
01:10:51,924 --> 01:10:55,524
Which then affections affects Adam and

1408
01:11:04,269 --> 01:11:06,500
Chief Gibson. >> Talking about the water

1409
01:11:06,500 --> 01:11:08,540
flow problem in Los Angeles and also

1410
01:11:08,540 --> 01:11:10,475
in Lahaina, though maybe that Fire

1411
01:11:10,475 --> 01:11:13,545
happened so fast that nobody got to

1412
01:11:13,545 --> 01:11:15,414
notice, there wasn't any water in the

1413
01:11:15,414 --> 01:11:19,140
hydrants anyway, because it was combine

1414
01:11:19,752 --> 01:11:20,953
pipes. Is that correct?

1415
01:11:20,953 --> 01:11:23,888
>> I didn't comment on what pipes had

1416
01:11:23,888 --> 01:11:26,759
water and what didn't. I just know my colleague on

1417
01:11:26,759 --> 01:11:30,161
Maui, who is also from the mainland

1418
01:11:30,161 --> 01:11:34,961
inherited a lot of same things I inherited.

1419
01:11:35,234 --> 01:11:38,169
>> Not putting blame what our pipes

1420
01:11:38,169 --> 01:11:42,369
made of and both water systems Fire

1421
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:44,309
flow and housing they are integrated;

1422
01:11:44,309 --> 01:11:47,113
right? ? So if the House burns down, the

1423
01:11:47,113 --> 01:11:49,513
[PAO-EUPZ/] melt? pipes melt.

1424
01:11:51,984 --> 01:11:53,987
>> I have this Michael address that,

1425
01:11:53,987 --> 01:11:56,722
and what the int gration look like,

1426
01:11:56,722 --> 01:12:00,580
because we have different pipes. >> Just to clarify, this is

1427
01:12:00,580 --> 01:12:04,258
in regards to the Bill, so meaning

1428
01:12:05,197 --> 01:12:07,466
for any new development.

1429
01:12:07,466 --> 01:12:09,334
Is that correct? >> No, it's all --

1430
01:12:09,334 --> 01:12:12,271
>> I just want to make sure it's

1431
01:12:12,271 --> 01:12:14,473
relatable. >> It's relatable to the Bill,

1432
01:12:14,473 --> 01:12:16,875
because this Bill is about how do we

1433
01:12:16,875 --> 01:12:20,475
set a template for Fire protection,

1434
01:12:20,679 --> 01:12:23,790
and Fire defensible spaces.

1435
01:12:39,765 --> 01:12:41,767
Conflagration is what this Bill is

1436
01:12:41,767 --> 01:12:44,767
about stopping conflagration of neighborhoods.

1437
01:12:45,637 --> 01:12:47,907
>> Do you want us to address the

1438
01:12:47,907 --> 01:12:51,843
pipes? I want to know if the pipes

1439
01:12:51,843 --> 01:12:53,244
would melt if the Houses burn?

1440
01:12:53,244 --> 01:12:55,180
>> That all depends on the depth of

1441
01:12:55,180 --> 01:12:59,980
the pipe and the type of pipe. >> Okay.

1442
01:13:00,852 --> 01:13:03,550
>> Have we ever had and I don't know

1443
01:13:03,550 --> 01:13:06,257
if it's a Michael question, have we had

1444
01:13:06,257 --> 01:13:08,590
houses burn, because we had a lot of

1445
01:13:08,590 --> 01:13:12,330
houses burn lately. Does it melt the pipes that

1446
01:13:12,330 --> 01:13:14,332
it's having housing leak Yang, just a

1447
01:13:14,332 --> 01:13:17,603
number of houses like in Kapa'a, the

1448
01:13:17,603 --> 01:13:19,738
leakage as a result of the house burning

1449
01:13:19,738 --> 01:13:23,543
down and how big a problem it.in terms o

1450
01:13:23,543 --> 01:13:24,677
the costs would be.

1451
01:13:24,677 --> 01:13:28,810
>> Council Member Kaneshiro. >> I guess this is just

1452
01:13:28,810 --> 01:13:30,950
clarification to Council Member Cowden on the

1453
01:13:30,950 --> 01:13:35,750
questioning. I guess as far as fighting a

1454
01:13:37,220 --> 01:13:38,424
Fire, there's multiple option and

1455
01:13:38,424 --> 01:13:41,360
ideally with all the water in the world

1456
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:43,950
we would dump water on the Fire

1457
01:13:43,950 --> 01:13:43,963
and solve it.

1458
01:13:43,963 --> 01:13:45,898
This Bill is going to protect the House

1459
01:13:45,898 --> 01:13:48,898
on the front Abe. Anne.

1460
01:13:51,771 --> 01:13:53,905
So I'm trying to put together the two

1461
01:13:53,905 --> 01:13:55,241
with the pipes burning and there's no

1462
01:13:55,241 --> 01:13:57,710
water. That brings us back to the Bill

1463
01:13:57,710 --> 01:13:59,244
we're saying that we want to

1464
01:13:59,244 --> 01:14:03,444
protection the House in the first place

1465
01:14:12,925 --> 01:14:18,925
>> Thank you for that question. I think both Council Member

1466
01:14:19,598 --> 01:14:24,136
Kagawa and Chair Furfaro who used to say

1467
01:14:24,136 --> 01:14:25,270
ready, Fire, aim.

1468
01:14:25,270 --> 01:14:29,470
I think that what Director Tait is

1469
01:14:29,475 --> 01:14:31,477
stating is how critical the problem is

1470
01:14:31,477 --> 01:14:37,477
with water in general. We have to look at everything.

1471
01:14:43,889 --> 01:14:47,930
So I think this is a really good

1472
01:14:47,930 --> 01:14:50,693
building block, but it needs the

1473
01:14:51,290 --> 01:14:55,301
support of access roads to get out of

1474
01:14:55,301 --> 01:14:58,236
that neighborhood, and water Fire

1475
01:14:58,236 --> 01:14:59,638
hydrants to be able to put the Fire

1476
01:14:59,638 --> 01:15:02,638
out. You know, wet scape?

1477
01:15:03,575 --> 01:15:07,646
So it doesn't he burn as easily and

1478
01:15:07,646 --> 01:15:11,116
doesn't start as easily. There is multiple pieces and

1479
01:15:11,116 --> 01:15:13,586
this Bill has done a really good job at

1480
01:15:13,586 --> 01:15:17,786
looking at this house, or this little

1481
01:15:18,256 --> 01:15:22,456
neighborhood. I think it's working with one

1482
01:15:25,597 --> 01:15:27,466
objective and misses some key points so I

1483
01:15:27,466 --> 01:15:29,735
don't think it's ready yet. So I

1484
01:15:29,735 --> 01:15:31,270
appreciate how everybody has said this is

1485
01:15:31,270 --> 01:15:35,470
a great effort and great program, and

1486
01:15:35,941 --> 01:15:37,810
just to cement it in when we have all

1487
01:15:37,810 --> 01:15:39,611
of this change of Administration and

1488
01:15:39,611 --> 01:15:41,547
it's not really ready yet, I think it's

1489
01:15:41,547 --> 01:15:42,349
a problem.

1490
01:15:42,349 --> 01:15:44,417
I think it will create problems.

1491
01:15:44,417 --> 01:15:46,886
It might help some. It will create others.

1492
01:15:46,886 --> 01:15:49,556
>> Any additional questions for Adam

1493
01:15:49,556 --> 01:15:54,356
or Joe? >> Do you want me to respond

1494
01:15:56,228 --> 01:15:56,828
to Arryl's question?

1495
01:15:56,828 --> 01:16:00,365
>> Yes. >> It triggered in my mind a

1496
01:16:00,365 --> 01:16:02,768
group that is not here, but just as

1497
01:16:02,768 --> 01:16:04,303
critical as Fire and water is the power

1498
01:16:04,303 --> 01:16:07,506
side. So the Department has spots on

1499
01:16:07,506 --> 01:16:11,430
the item that we're the only customer in

1500
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:12,844
a certain area for KIUC.

1501
01:16:12,844 --> 01:16:16,248
So we may have plenty of water in the

1502
01:16:16,248 --> 01:16:19,584
pipes, but we don't have power. So it's not always just

1503
01:16:19,584 --> 01:16:22,942
confineed to a water restriction in a certain

1504
01:16:22,942 --> 01:16:25,543
geographically area. When we have plenty of water in

1505
01:16:25,543 --> 01:16:27,790
the pipe and in the well, and the

1506
01:16:27,790 --> 01:16:29,347
power is out and we're the only

1507
01:16:29,347 --> 01:16:31,883
customer, we're the only customer for KIUC, and

1508
01:16:31,883 --> 01:16:34,553
the only provider to the public in

1509
01:16:34,553 --> 01:16:36,921
that area, everything loses.

1510
01:16:36,921 --> 01:16:39,240
everybody loses. So it's not just water and

1511
01:16:39,240 --> 01:16:42,270
Fire, but you have to include power in

1512
01:16:42,270 --> 01:16:44,763
the Islandwide, because any time

1513
01:16:44,763 --> 01:16:48,363
they are down and we're down.

1514
01:16:49,567 --> 01:16:53,238
We just had that with the storms, and

1515
01:16:53,238 --> 01:16:56,107
we had water, but we don't deliver it.

1516
01:16:56,107 --> 01:16:58,510
>> Thank you. I have one follow-up.

1517
01:16:58,510 --> 01:16:59,912
Thank you, Joe, for your statement.

1518
01:16:59,912 --> 01:17:04,112
Appreciate it. Just to clarify regarding this

1519
01:17:04,783 --> 01:17:08,983
WUI Bill and what the Water Department

1520
01:17:10,256 --> 01:17:12,191
Board passed so the public can

1521
01:17:12,191 --> 01:17:16,929
understand, if this WUI Bill passes, what will

1522
01:17:16,929 --> 01:17:20,332
happen when people apply for their

1523
01:17:20,332 --> 01:17:22,100
FRC? >> As I understand it, and

1524
01:17:22,100 --> 01:17:23,802
Ka'aina can come up and join us, because I

1525
01:17:23,802 --> 01:17:26,938
think that is the process side of

1526
01:17:26,938 --> 01:17:29,141
where all this starts.

1527
01:17:29,141 --> 01:17:31,900
Remember, in the process train we're

1528
01:17:31,900 --> 01:17:33,679
the tail of the dog. And they are the head of the

1529
01:17:33,679 --> 01:17:37,279
dog. So we get it last.

1530
01:17:39,151 --> 01:17:41,686
which we have had some good discussions

1531
01:17:41,686 --> 01:17:44,220
with Planning, and our Board on should

1532
01:17:44,220 --> 01:17:48,427
we be last or be first? That is here, nor there.

1533
01:17:48,427 --> 01:17:52,300
At the same time, my assumption and

1534
01:17:52,300 --> 01:17:54,990
Ka'aina can come up and hit me on the

1535
01:17:54,990 --> 01:17:57,102
back of the head, since he is one of my

1536
01:17:57,102 --> 01:18:01,400
bosses on the Board, it would start

1537
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:04,309
with Planning. They with make a determination.

1538
01:18:04,309 --> 01:18:06,245
If the proposed residence meets the

1539
01:18:06,245 --> 01:18:08,714
requirements of the Bill, and it would

1540
01:18:08,714 --> 01:18:11,714
be at their direction discretion

1541
01:18:12,651 --> 01:18:14,386
whether they apply a waiver and the

1542
01:18:14,386 --> 01:18:17,723
Water Department would not receive that

1543
01:18:17,723 --> 01:18:20,125
FRC funding is the way I understand it

1544
01:18:20,125 --> 01:18:23,610
and maybe I oversimpfied, but that is

1545
01:18:23,610 --> 01:18:25,197
the way I understand it. >> Any additional questions

1546
01:18:25,197 --> 01:18:27,199
for Adam or Joe?

1547
01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:29,267
Any additional questions for the

1548
01:18:29,267 --> 01:18:32,203
administrateion? I know we're going to --

1549
01:18:32,203 --> 01:18:33,739
>> I have another question for Ka'aina.

1550
01:18:33,739 --> 01:18:38,539
>> I have one, too. >> Let's swap out the 1998

1551
01:18:38,944 --> 01:18:40,944
dream-team here.

1552
01:18:56,828 --> 01:19:00,966
Just to note we're about half an hour

1553
01:19:00,966 --> 01:19:04,703
away from the caption break to put a

1554
01:19:04,703 --> 01:19:06,305
time stamp there. Chair.

1555
01:19:06,305 --> 01:19:07,373
>> Thank you, and thank you for being

1556
01:19:07,373 --> 01:19:10,843
here. I know Ms. Cowden alluded to

1557
01:19:10,843 --> 01:19:13,846
the amount of the "Mays" in here and I

1558
01:19:13,846 --> 01:19:18,460
think Adam called it the wiggle room.

1559
01:19:18,317 --> 01:19:22,517
Do you know offhand how many variances

1560
01:19:23,455 --> 01:19:25,996
or exemptions can be granted with this

1561
01:19:25,996 --> 01:19:28,666
Bill as it's written and for what?

1562
01:19:28,666 --> 01:19:34,938
I was trying to skim through it. >> There was exceptions in the

1563
01:19:34,938 --> 01:19:37,938
building Section, which is using

1564
01:19:38,476 --> 01:19:40,143
combustible materials, and how that is

1565
01:19:40,143 --> 01:19:43,280
done, and that is just where the

1566
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,880
flashing comes, the exemptions in the

1567
01:19:48,552 --> 01:19:51,222
zoning code and the most important is

1568
01:19:51,222 --> 01:19:54,825
the setback exemption, for new subdivisions being able to

1569
01:19:54,825 --> 01:19:56,694
reduce those larger setbacks.

1570
01:19:56,694 --> 01:20:01,433
We do have a draft Amendment to introduce to further clarify

1571
01:20:01,433 --> 01:20:05,330
that. So that through the 201H

1572
01:20:05,703 --> 01:20:08,705
process or PDU process, those setbacks could

1573
01:20:08,705 --> 01:20:09,639
also be reduced?

1574
01:20:09,639 --> 01:20:11,108
>> Would be what? >> Also reduced.

1575
01:20:11,108 --> 01:20:15,308
>> Okay. I think because what Joe said

1576
01:20:16,513 --> 01:20:19,916
about the loss to the Water Department is

1577
01:20:19,916 --> 01:20:21,586
irrelevant, compareing that to the loss

1578
01:20:21,586 --> 01:20:25,122
of life. Wouldn't you agree if this Bill

1579
01:20:25,122 --> 01:20:28,392
is for safety, then there should be no

1580
01:20:28,392 --> 01:20:31,992
exemptions? >> It's not an exemption Carte

1581
01:20:33,264 --> 01:20:36,266
Blanche you are exempting out from the

1582
01:20:36,266 --> 01:20:39,866
setbacks. It's an exception to say

1583
01:20:40,804 --> 01:20:43,204
further designs can accommodate

1584
01:20:43,273 --> 01:20:44,675
wildfire resill cency.

1585
01:20:44,675 --> 01:20:49,680
So as we presented two weeks ago with a

1586
01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:52,800
10,000 square feet lot, 4500 square

1587
01:20:52,683 --> 01:20:54,819
foot, making the analysis to show all

1588
01:20:54,819 --> 01:20:57,870
of these lots can accommodate the

1589
01:20:57,870 --> 01:21:00,870
setbacks. There's not really necessarily

1590
01:21:00,757 --> 01:21:03,694
a need to exempt or veer out or reduce

1591
01:21:03,694 --> 01:21:07,894
them. In places that you apply for

1592
01:21:10,301 --> 01:21:13,301
3,000 that is not under County

1593
01:21:13,771 --> 01:21:15,771
coincide. Code.

1594
01:21:32,723 --> 01:21:36,327
>> Thank you. >> I have a follow-up on that.

1595
01:21:36,327 --> 01:21:39,196
>> Council Member Cowden. >> Can't we take that money

1596
01:21:39,196 --> 01:21:42,196
from somewhere else rather than

1597
01:21:43,466 --> 01:21:45,735
take away from the Water Department?

1598
01:21:45,735 --> 01:21:49,407
To me it's like slapping the victim.

1599
01:21:49,407 --> 01:21:53,607
When we have $39 million of state --

1600
01:21:54,211 --> 01:21:56,880
our housing revolving Knuds, Revolving

1601
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,416
Fund and we have the money that we got

1602
01:21:59,416 --> 01:22:01,816
from Taxing the visitors?

1603
01:22:07,692 --> 01:22:09,893
You know we have other monies that we

1604
01:22:09,893 --> 01:22:12,362
could do so we don't have to take it

1605
01:22:12,362 --> 01:22:15,765
from the Water Department. To me, it seems like a real

1606
01:22:15,765 --> 01:22:18,350
problem to take the money from the water

1607
01:22:18,350 --> 01:22:20,170
Department, when that is really critical element.

1608
01:22:20,170 --> 01:22:22,439
It seems like we should be, in fact,

1609
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:24,400
putting more money into that, so that

1610
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:28,187
we can have more housing. >> I understand the concern.

1611
01:22:28,187 --> 01:22:31,590
>> Okay. >> I have a follow-up on that.

1612
01:22:31,590 --> 01:22:33,659
I'm sorry? >> Chair --

1613
01:22:33,659 --> 01:22:36,996
>> It's a policy decision >> It's a policy decision.

1614
01:22:36,996 --> 01:22:40,000
I'm just curious as to the rationale,

1615
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:41,934
assuming that -- and I said this at the

1616
01:22:41,934 --> 01:22:43,935
last meeting that assuming the add

1617
01:22:43,935 --> 01:22:48,135
costs to the House is $ 6000, why are

1618
01:22:48,807 --> 01:22:51,745
we taking away $14,000 from water to

1619
01:22:51,745 --> 01:22:54,145
accommodate that additional cost?

1620
01:22:54,947 --> 01:22:58,350
That is the question. Where did that come from?

1621
01:22:58,350 --> 01:23:02,955
Who said let's waive FRCs so we can

1622
01:23:02,955 --> 01:23:06,555
basically soften the blow to the

1623
01:23:06,625 --> 01:23:10,225
homeowner of $6,000, but at same time,

1624
01:23:14,433 --> 01:23:15,301
we're diverting $14,000 from the Water

1625
01:23:15,301 --> 01:23:19,501
Department. Did you think about like an

1626
01:23:19,505 --> 01:23:22,240
exemption of the amount that they spend

1627
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:24,176
or a percentage of the FRC?

1628
01:23:24,176 --> 01:23:27,379
But we just said give up the FRC

1629
01:23:27,379 --> 01:23:29,448
$14,000 for someone paying $6,000, what

1630
01:23:29,448 --> 01:23:33,120
was the rationale for that? >> It was $6,000ing, and it

1631
01:23:33,120 --> 01:23:37,320
depends on the size of the house,.

1632
01:23:38,257 --> 01:23:40,657
>> Let's use $ 6,000, because that

1633
01:23:42,728 --> 01:23:44,997
makes it sellible to this Council,

1634
01:23:44,997 --> 01:23:47,997
because it's only $6,000, but we're

1635
01:23:48,670 --> 01:23:49,735
taking $14,000 there water, what is the

1636
01:23:49,735 --> 01:23:55,135
ration ale for that? >> The nexus between water and

1637
01:23:55,207 --> 01:23:57,543
the ability to exempt it too.

1638
01:23:57,543 --> 01:24:00,614
As a Water Board Member, I have been

1639
01:24:00,614 --> 01:24:04,814
increasingly frustrated in the application of $14,000 FRC

1640
01:24:05,830 --> 01:24:08,220
across the Board for all homes; right?

1641
01:24:08,220 --> 01:24:11,223
Like -- and that frustration was shared

1642
01:24:11,223 --> 01:24:14,159
a number of times and that it

1643
01:24:14,159 --> 01:24:17,896
pays the same FRC as a mansion with

1644
01:24:17,896 --> 01:24:19,980
swimming pools.

1645
01:24:19,980 --> 01:24:21,633
So when the Water Department gets into

1646
01:24:21,633 --> 01:24:25,171
its portion of what it does with FRCs,

1647
01:24:25,171 --> 01:24:26,972
my position is that we need to have

1648
01:24:26,972 --> 01:24:29,174
further studys to get into the legal

1649
01:24:29,174 --> 01:24:33,374
analyses of how certain uses can be

1650
01:24:33,378 --> 01:24:38,651
charged higher FRCs. I.e., resort uses or vacation

1651
01:24:38,651 --> 01:24:39,251
rental uses.

1652
01:24:39,251 --> 01:24:41,386
>> I am not going to degree with

1653
01:24:41,386 --> 01:24:44,986
that, but it's kind of irrelevant

1654
01:24:49,728 --> 01:24:51,640
because there is a nexus to the Water

1655
01:24:51,640 --> 01:24:55,200
Department, but I don't see the can be

1656
01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:59,471
it doesn't balance out. I mean, even if it was $10,000

1657
01:24:59,471 --> 01:25:00,872
in additional costs for a little

1658
01:25:00,872 --> 01:25:03,610
larger house, you are still taking

1659
01:25:03,610 --> 01:25:05,610
$14,000 away.

1660
01:25:06,212 --> 01:25:09,415
And last discussion before PL Mr.

1661
01:25:09,415 --> 01:25:11,830
Tait, thank you for that amazing

1662
01:25:11,830 --> 01:25:13,218
statement and you opened up a lot of

1663
01:25:13,218 --> 01:25:14,686
people's eyes we're taking from the

1664
01:25:14,686 --> 01:25:19,486
agency that needs our help that is the

1665
01:25:19,759 --> 01:25:22,162
critical component of the Fire Department's operations. I

1666
01:25:22,162 --> 01:25:25,300
think it made it very clear.

1667
01:25:25,300 --> 01:25:28,983
Why would we take from that agency and

1668
01:25:28,983 --> 01:25:30,785
not like Felicia said, I'm not sure

1669
01:25:30,785 --> 01:25:33,854
where you get that money? It's a subsidy and some people

1670
01:25:33,854 --> 01:25:38,654
disagree, but it is a subsidy and what

1671
01:25:43,531 --> 01:25:47,268
was the rationale? >> I agree it's a subsidy and

1672
01:25:47,268 --> 01:25:48,736
within the current water structure,

1673
01:25:48,736 --> 01:25:50,538
there's another group that gets

1674
01:25:50,538 --> 01:25:52,606
subsidized already and that is

1675
01:25:52,606 --> 01:25:53,274
agricultural water rates.

1676
01:25:53,274 --> 01:25:56,610
That is the policy that the Water Board

1677
01:25:56,610 --> 01:26:01,810
made saying we neat ed to help farmers

1678
01:26:01,810 --> 01:26:05,281
in a houseing crisis where the FRC.

1679
01:26:11,758 --> 01:26:14,762
Increasing FRCs is also on the books;

1680
01:26:14,762 --> 01:26:17,966
right? On the books right now draft

1681
01:26:17,966 --> 01:26:20,434
proposal $28,000 FRC across the Board.

1682
01:26:20,434 --> 01:26:23,704
My position is that -- like, $14 is

1683
01:26:23,704 --> 01:26:27,904
hard enough and know $28? And I made

1684
01:26:27,908 --> 01:26:30,911
it very public that I want the consultant to do the study to

1685
01:26:30,911 --> 01:26:33,647
assess the legal capabilities to look

1686
01:26:33,647 --> 01:26:38,447
at uses as opposed to across the Board

1687
01:26:41,121 --> 01:26:42,122
5/8th meter.

1688
01:26:42,122 --> 01:26:45,590
>> I understand Kaina. That is a different discussion.

1689
01:26:45,590 --> 01:26:47,610
It has nothing to do with this Bill.

1690
01:26:47,610 --> 01:26:49,997
Because I agree with you. I agree.

1691
01:26:49,997 --> 01:26:51,199
But I'm just curious where that came

1692
01:26:51,199 --> 01:26:53,667
from? Let's go take FRC?

1693
01:26:53,667 --> 01:26:56,537
Is that the next slush fund for the

1694
01:26:56,537 --> 01:26:58,872
County, we'll waive your FRC if you

1695
01:26:58,872 --> 01:27:01,208
hurricane proof your house, you don't

1696
01:27:01,208 --> 01:27:05,790
have to do FRC? That is not a pool of funds we

1697
01:27:05,790 --> 01:27:08,679
should be using to incentize behavior.

1698
01:27:10,417 --> 01:27:17,617
I'm going to have a rough time supporting this Bill going on

1699
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:21,361
the figures, that won't impact in

1700
01:27:21,361 --> 01:27:23,296
my opinion someone's ability to

1701
01:27:23,296 --> 01:27:24,564
get a mortgage.

1702
01:27:24,564 --> 01:27:28,764
So they don't in my opinion warrant

1703
01:27:29,436 --> 01:27:32,506
that $14,000 discount. That is just my one Council

1704
01:27:32,506 --> 01:27:34,374
Member opinion.

1705
01:27:34,374 --> 01:27:35,709
>> I understand. >> I have another question.

1706
01:27:35,709 --> 01:27:38,712
>> Council Member Cowden. >> I want to talk about

1707
01:27:38,712 --> 01:27:43,917
enforcement. So first of all I want to let

1708
01:27:43,917 --> 01:27:47,788
you speak on how you think this would end

1709
01:27:47,788 --> 01:27:49,856
up being enforced and then I have

1710
01:27:49,856 --> 01:27:51,191
specific questions?

1711
01:27:51,191 --> 01:27:53,591
>> Construction aspect is basically

1712
01:27:56,630 --> 01:28:00,333
enforced during construction. Outside of that, there's no

1713
01:28:00,333 --> 01:28:03,333
real enforcement, because built in

1714
01:28:03,470 --> 01:28:05,473
Certificate of Occupancy that determines all permits are in

1715
01:28:05,473 --> 01:28:08,742
place. >> Does that mean you aren't

1716
01:28:08,742 --> 01:28:12,212
enforcing on all these other "shalls"

1717
01:28:12,212 --> 01:28:16,283
without how people might build their plans?

1718
01:28:16,283 --> 01:28:19,883
Do their landscaping with their leaves

1719
01:28:21,688 --> 01:28:26,226
in the gutters? Are we going to go around and

1720
01:28:26,226 --> 01:28:27,846
look at everybody's office and give

1721
01:28:27,846 --> 01:28:31,117
them a Northern Virginia notice of

1722
01:28:31,117 --> 01:28:33,519
violation in they don't cut their avocado

1723
01:28:33,519 --> 01:28:34,653
tree down?

1724
01:28:34,653 --> 01:28:36,989
>> No, the requirements for the

1725
01:28:36,989 --> 01:28:38,723
landscaping are only for the larger

1726
01:28:38,723 --> 01:28:40,859
subdivisions and not for the individual

1727
01:28:40,859 --> 01:28:42,795
lots. Those larger subdivisions is

1728
01:28:42,795 --> 01:28:45,264
fairly standard to have subdivision

1729
01:28:45,264 --> 01:28:48,264
conditions of approval around landscaping.

1730
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:51,200
It's just not standard right now to

1731
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:52,204
have wildfire resiliency built into it.

1732
01:28:52,204 --> 01:28:55,804
>> Just being really clear on that,

1733
01:28:57,609 --> 01:29:00,746
because I know enforcement is complaint-driven and when I

1734
01:29:00,746 --> 01:29:04,946
bring up these really painful stories is

1735
01:29:05,217 --> 01:29:06,819
it somebody has a beef with

1736
01:29:06,819 --> 01:29:09,755
somebody else so they file complaints about

1737
01:29:09,755 --> 01:29:12,910
them and then they go through something

1738
01:29:12,910 --> 01:29:13,920
that could potentially cost their

1739
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:17,892
house? So when there is this -- all

1740
01:29:19,231 --> 01:29:22,231
these "shalls" on gutters, these

1741
01:29:23,235 --> 01:29:26,835
things, leaves under the trees, this

1742
01:29:27,172 --> 01:29:29,910
would only be enforceable when you drive

1743
01:29:29,910 --> 01:29:32,450
through a big subdivision and it's the

1744
01:29:32,450 --> 01:29:33,245
common area?

1745
01:29:33,245 --> 01:29:35,847
It wouldn't be people -- somebody could

1746
01:29:35,847 --> 01:29:38,383
file a complaint on somebody's yard,

1747
01:29:38,383 --> 01:29:40,786
and then they say yes, there is some

1748
01:29:40,786 --> 01:29:43,989
leaves under the trees? >> The way the Bill is set up,

1749
01:29:43,989 --> 01:29:46,580
the enforcement isn't with the

1750
01:29:46,580 --> 01:29:48,928
individual homeowner for the larger

1751
01:29:48,928 --> 01:29:50,863
subdivision, but with the Homeowners

1752
01:29:50,863 --> 01:29:52,264
Association. >> The Homeowners Association

1753
01:29:52,264 --> 01:29:53,665
is the one looking at that?

1754
01:29:53,665 --> 01:29:54,468
>> Yes. >> Okay.

1755
01:29:54,468 --> 01:29:59,268
>> Council Member Kuali'i? >> So Ka'aina, we do FRC

1756
01:30:03,675 --> 01:30:06,120
waivers or exemptions for certain

1757
01:30:06,120 --> 01:30:08,414
affordable housing projects and other

1758
01:30:08,414 --> 01:30:09,949
projects; right?

1759
01:30:09,949 --> 01:30:12,485
>> A reduction. >> A reduction then.

1760
01:30:12,485 --> 01:30:16,850
So in essence, to address Chair's

1761
01:30:16,889 --> 01:30:19,240
concern, if the amounts you were trying

1762
01:30:19,240 --> 01:30:22,624
to offset was $6,000, instead of doing

1763
01:30:24,496 --> 01:30:26,565
a full exemption of the $14,000, you

1764
01:30:26,565 --> 01:30:28,967
could do half? >> The Water Board could

1765
01:30:28,967 --> 01:30:29,634
entertain that.

1766
01:30:29,634 --> 01:30:35,634
>> The Water Board. so I mean, I think what you

1767
01:30:36,575 --> 01:30:40,775
were saying is relevant, because if there

1768
01:30:41,780 --> 01:30:43,849
was already a tiered structure,

1769
01:30:43,849 --> 01:30:47,449
then you could differentiate between the

1770
01:30:48,121 --> 01:30:51,721
lowest small affordable home you are

1771
01:30:51,857 --> 01:30:55,795
trying to build in a subdivision versus

1772
01:30:55,795 --> 01:30:57,329
the McMansions or whatever, and so

1773
01:30:57,329 --> 01:31:01,133
the fact that they all pay the same rate

1774
01:31:01,133 --> 01:31:03,136
currently, I hope that changes in the

1775
01:31:03,136 --> 01:31:06,605
future, too. But if it does change, then

1776
01:31:06,605 --> 01:31:10,805
having that lower amount could be more

1777
01:31:16,549 --> 01:31:17,349
palateacle? >> Yes.

1778
01:31:17,349 --> 01:31:20,349
>> Thank you. >> Council Member Holland.

1779
01:31:21,286 --> 01:31:24,890
>> Just following up on that. Wouldn't that -- would that be

1780
01:31:24,890 --> 01:31:29,900
feasible to be able to calculate the

1781
01:31:29,228 --> 01:31:31,363
costs of each home based upon the

1782
01:31:31,363 --> 01:31:33,698
difference of the WUI codes and only exempt

1783
01:31:33,698 --> 01:31:35,968
that amount or would that just be --

1784
01:31:35,968 --> 01:31:42,568
>> We can look into it. >> It seems like -- -- I

1785
01:31:43,308 --> 01:31:46,308
don't understand enough about your

1786
01:31:47,446 --> 01:31:49,115
internal processes work, but to

1787
01:31:49,115 --> 01:31:52,586
calculate that every cost additional due to

1788
01:31:52,586 --> 01:31:54,588
WUI. >> So the building permit

1789
01:31:54,588 --> 01:31:56,655
process has a calculation based off of

1790
01:31:56,655 --> 01:31:58,524
square footage and that doesn't

1791
01:31:58,524 --> 01:32:00,325
necessarily reflect the accurate amount of

1792
01:32:00,325 --> 01:32:01,727
what is being put into it.

1793
01:32:01,727 --> 01:32:06,527
If you build a house with cedar versus

1794
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:10,536
teak, the calculation is specifically

1795
01:32:10,536 --> 01:32:15,700
set up for square footage. That would be a potential

1796
01:32:15,700 --> 01:32:15,674
scenario, I think.

1797
01:32:15,674 --> 01:32:17,674
Yeah. >> Thank you.

1798
01:32:18,878 --> 01:32:20,812
>> Question. >> Go ahead.

1799
01:32:20,812 --> 01:32:22,748
>> I just want to go back to the

1800
01:32:22,748 --> 01:32:27,548
conversation from last meeting regarding garage conversion ADU

1801
01:32:29,870 --> 01:32:31,824
and it's only for the area that is

1802
01:32:31,824 --> 01:32:32,425
being affected?

1803
01:32:32,425 --> 01:32:36,625
Can you share if this passes, say,

1804
01:32:38,163 --> 01:32:40,366
somebody in Moloa'a renovating a

1805
01:32:40,366 --> 01:32:45,437
garage, what is required? >> As long as they are not

1806
01:32:45,437 --> 01:32:47,837
expanding footprint, no requirements.

1807
01:32:48,390 --> 01:32:50,376
>> So only extending footprint.

1808
01:32:50,376 --> 01:32:51,843
Thank you. Council Member Cowden.

1809
01:32:51,843 --> 01:32:53,979
>> This question is not really from

1810
01:32:53,979 --> 01:32:55,914
me, but from the letters that we have

1811
01:32:55,914 --> 01:32:59,584
received. So I just want to hear your

1812
01:32:59,584 --> 01:33:03,122
framework on it, and I will caveate by

1813
01:33:03,122 --> 01:33:06,570
saying Joe Tait's piece that lives are

1814
01:33:06,570 --> 01:33:08,393
worth more than money.

1815
01:33:08,393 --> 01:33:11,597
Something that has been asked of us,

1816
01:33:11,597 --> 01:33:15,200
comments have come to us that they feel

1817
01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:19,400
this concrete around the House, and a

1818
01:33:20,939 --> 01:33:24,142
little bit more of a hard scape than

1819
01:33:24,142 --> 01:33:28,790
the green scape will reduce the assessed value of the houses.

1820
01:33:28,790 --> 01:33:31,885
Can you comment on that? Like people

1821
01:33:31,885 --> 01:33:35,154
don't water them as much. They are in the business --

1822
01:33:35,154 --> 01:33:40,225
they are not worth, as much as what is

1823
01:33:40,225 --> 01:33:40,959
being suggested, sellable?

1824
01:33:40,959 --> 01:33:42,762
How do you feel about that, lowering

1825
01:33:42,762 --> 01:33:46,632
the value of the houses? >> I don't --

1826
01:33:46,632 --> 01:33:51,170
-- I don't have the appraisals to say

1827
01:33:51,170 --> 01:33:53,706
my grandmother's Japanese rock garden

1828
01:33:53,706 --> 01:33:55,441
at her house, I don't know if it's

1829
01:33:55,441 --> 01:33:58,578
particularly high value? Sorry, I can't really comment

1830
01:33:58,578 --> 01:34:02,113
on that. >> You can't respond on that.

1831
01:34:02,113 --> 01:34:05,113
All right. Council Member Kuali'i.

1832
01:34:08,720 --> 01:34:12,320
>> When we talked about the numbers

1833
01:34:14,259 --> 01:34:16,929
with concrete versus aggregate, there

1834
01:34:16,929 --> 01:34:19,640
are other machinations, if you will,

1835
01:34:19,640 --> 01:34:21,133
some concrete and some gravel that you

1836
01:34:21,133 --> 01:34:24,733
could do in combination that would

1837
01:34:24,936 --> 01:34:27,205
perhaps cost more than one, but less

1838
01:34:27,205 --> 01:34:30,145
than the other; right? >> Yes.

1839
01:34:30,145 --> 01:34:34,345
>> And, in fact, while this is only

1840
01:34:34,483 --> 01:34:36,151
regarding new construction, if somebody

1841
01:34:36,151 --> 01:34:38,554
with an existing home wanted to do

1842
01:34:38,554 --> 01:34:41,623
something themselves, they could do it

1843
01:34:41,623 --> 01:34:42,558
relatively inexpensively and go to Home

1844
01:34:42,558 --> 01:34:45,562
Depot and get those concrete stepping

1845
01:34:45,562 --> 01:34:48,230
stones. They could fill them all in and

1846
01:34:48,230 --> 01:34:50,365
cover it with gravel, I mean, it

1847
01:34:50,365 --> 01:34:52,968
would meet your requirements for Fire

1848
01:34:52,968 --> 01:34:54,968
Safety; right?

1849
01:34:55,237 --> 01:34:59,437
>> Home Depot gravel -- try to get

1850
01:35:00,442 --> 01:35:03,245
13,000 from Home Depot is going to be

1851
01:35:03,245 --> 01:35:06,715
expensive, try other vendors. >> They go on sale.

1852
01:35:06,715 --> 01:35:09,251
[Laughter ]I mean, I have gone pretty

1853
01:35:09,251 --> 01:35:12,851
inexpensively. I'm thinking of doing it.

1854
01:35:15,657 --> 01:35:22,257
>> I will put a small plug for existing homeowners -- -- .

1855
01:35:23,933 --> 01:35:29,333
>> Chief wants us to do it. >> Doing home assessments,

1856
01:35:29,738 --> 01:35:31,740
voluntarily to give strategic tips on

1857
01:35:31,740 --> 01:35:34,143
how to harden your home voluntarily.

1858
01:35:34,143 --> 01:35:36,345
>> Committee Members we're about 5

1859
01:35:36,345 --> 01:35:37,747
minutes away from our caption break and

1860
01:35:37,747 --> 01:35:40,150
I would like to take the caption break

1861
01:35:40,150 --> 01:35:44,553
now, if you don't have any more additional questions for Admin

1862
01:35:44,553 --> 01:35:46,689
and that way when we come back from the

1863
01:35:46,689 --> 01:35:48,624
caption break, if there's any

1864
01:35:48,624 --> 01:35:50,292
Amendments, and after the Amendments go to

1865
01:35:50,292 --> 01:35:51,293
public testimony.

1866
01:35:51,293 --> 01:35:53,362
So that at least the public can comment

1867
01:35:53,362 --> 01:35:56,832
on the Amendments and the actual Bill.

1868
01:35:56,832 --> 01:35:58,501
Any additional questions before the

1869
01:35:58,501 --> 01:36:01,170
caption break? So we'll take a caption break

1870
01:36:01,170 --> 01:36:01,771
for ten minutes.

1871
01:36:01,771 --> 01:36:03,771
Thank you [ GAVEL ]

1872
01:52:08,879 --> 01:52:10,614
I would like to call the Planning

1873
01:52:10,614 --> 01:52:15,152
Committee back to order. We're going to start with

1874
01:52:15,152 --> 01:52:18,752
Amendments and we'll do public testimony

1875
01:52:19,289 --> 01:52:20,224
after the Amendments.

1876
01:52:20,224 --> 01:52:23,824
>> I move to amend as circulated.

1877
01:52:24,495 --> 01:52:26,495
>> Second. >> Thank you

1878
01:52:40,714 --> 01:52:42,916
>> Thank you. so we have a Floor

1879
01:52:42,916 --> 01:52:45,652
Amendment and it was moved and seconded

1880
01:52:45,652 --> 01:52:49,252
by Council Member Carvalho and Council

1881
01:52:50,592 --> 01:52:55,262
Member Cowden. It looks like it's just more

1882
01:52:55,262 --> 01:52:57,262
housekeeping. >> Yes.

1883
01:52:58,198 --> 01:53:01,935
>> I would like to suspend the rules.

1884
01:53:01,935 --> 01:53:03,670
Director Hull, would you like to speak

1885
01:53:03,670 --> 01:53:06,406
on this and if there's questions from

1886
01:53:06,406 --> 01:53:08,608
Council Members on the Amendment?

1887
01:53:08,608 --> 01:53:12,479
>> I apologize, Chair. Is this the Fire request

1888
01:53:12,479 --> 01:53:13,947
Amendment. >> Through Council Member

1889
01:53:13,947 --> 01:53:18,147
Cowden -- I mean Council Member Carvalho.

1890
01:53:32,165 --> 01:53:36,360
>> Most of it is just is housekeeping.

1891
01:53:36,360 --> 01:53:40,374
The first one and this was clarification on the

1892
01:53:40,374 --> 01:53:42,509
floorboards and deck, clarification that the

1893
01:53:42,509 --> 01:53:44,177
wall intersection and post

1894
01:53:44,177 --> 01:53:48,377
intersection don't have to be the same.

1895
01:53:48,448 --> 01:53:52,648
And then the last one, there already

1896
01:53:52,653 --> 01:53:56,253
was the setback reduction in there.

1897
01:53:57,190 --> 01:54:00,790
Proposing adjusting it so that it's

1898
01:54:03,797 --> 01:54:06,533
explicitly in the Ordinance concerning

1899
01:54:06,533 --> 01:54:09,603
beyond just the structure, the structure setback and the

1900
01:54:09,603 --> 01:54:13,203
property line setback can be reduced.

1901
01:54:19,746 --> 01:54:22,820
>> Questions? Council Member Cowden.

1902
01:54:22,820 --> 01:54:25,953
>> So this is just omissions that your

1903
01:54:25,953 --> 01:54:27,621
team found? ?

1904
01:54:27,621 --> 01:54:30,957
} Yeah and the last one for the

1905
01:54:30,957 --> 01:54:33,957
setbacks, had discussions with some

1906
01:54:34,228 --> 01:54:36,628
developers, Housing Director Roversi,

1907
01:54:37,564 --> 01:54:40,501
and while acknowledging this were

1908
01:54:40,501 --> 01:54:42,102
setback reduction provisions in this,

1909
01:54:42,102 --> 01:54:45,105
it might be better to tighten up to

1910
01:54:45,105 --> 01:54:46,773
expoliticianly call out the setback

1911
01:54:46,773 --> 01:54:48,242
lines to the property lines could be

1912
01:54:48,242 --> 01:54:51,242
reduced what Section is that?

1913
01:54:53,313 --> 01:54:56,316
>> Page 3, subsection E at the bottom.

1914
01:54:56,316 --> 01:54:58,518
>> In consultation with the Fire

1915
01:54:58,518 --> 01:55:00,454
Chief, these setback distances may --

1916
01:55:00,454 --> 01:55:04,791
that is one of the "may" be reduced if

1917
01:55:04,791 --> 01:55:08,391
the exterior walls of the proposed

1918
01:55:08,395 --> 01:55:12,595
structure are constructed with non-combustible materials and

1919
01:55:15,668 --> 01:55:18,680
incorporate adequate wildfire design.

1920
01:55:18,338 --> 01:55:23,138
So that means it's a cinder block or

1921
01:55:23,342 --> 01:55:28,142
those hardened wood -- so how much is

1922
01:55:28,281 --> 01:55:32,481
that likely to be? How much distance?

1923
01:55:33,359 --> 01:55:35,695
>> Not saying we would consult on the

1924
01:55:35,695 --> 01:55:38,231
design. It would be reducing the

1925
01:55:38,231 --> 01:55:39,990
setbacks through various design

1926
01:55:39,990 --> 01:55:42,436
standards and it could go, as much as 10' back

1927
01:55:42,436 --> 01:55:43,636
to the standard.

1928
01:55:43,636 --> 01:55:47,236
>> Back to 5? >> 10 to the building, 5 to

1929
01:55:48,508 --> 01:55:49,575
the property.

1930
01:55:49,575 --> 01:55:52,575
>> 10 to the building, 5 to the

1931
01:55:52,978 --> 01:55:54,848
property line. >> That means if there's an

1932
01:55:54,848 --> 01:55:56,916
eve or something like that, that is

1933
01:55:56,916 --> 01:56:00,516
between the building and the property

1934
01:56:00,920 --> 01:56:05,120
line. When you say 10 to the building.

1935
01:56:07,326 --> 01:56:09,795
>> Standard setbacks for rear and side

1936
01:56:09,795 --> 01:56:13,265
and 5-10 on the front. >> As opposed to 15?

1937
01:56:13,265 --> 01:56:16,865
>> Yes. >> And it doesn't give those

1938
01:56:17,700 --> 01:56:19,673
numbers here, but that is what it would

1939
01:56:19,673 --> 01:56:21,675
be without giving the numbers.

1940
01:56:21,675 --> 01:56:24,744
>> Wouldn't be able to veer beyond

1941
01:56:24,744 --> 01:56:28,149
the minimum already set. >> Any additional questions on

1942
01:56:28,149 --> 01:56:28,881
the Amendment?

1943
01:56:28,881 --> 01:56:33,619
Council Member Kaneshiro? >> For the stairs, got rid of

1944
01:56:33,619 --> 01:56:35,955
the screen mesh and I was reading

1945
01:56:35,955 --> 01:56:38,691
you can only get rid of the screen mesh

1946
01:56:38,691 --> 01:56:41,495
if it's big with ignition resistant

1947
01:56:41,495 --> 01:56:43,895
material? >> There's other material,

1948
01:56:44,165 --> 01:56:48,365
like part of that hardwoods as well.

1949
01:56:49,435 --> 01:56:53,440
>> So even if it's hardwoods, if it's

1950
01:56:53,440 --> 01:56:56,376
just hardwoods, which most stairs are,

1951
01:56:56,376 --> 01:56:57,777
it doesn't need anything underneath.

1952
01:56:57,777 --> 01:57:00,446
>> It could be open air. >> Why is that?

1953
01:57:00,446 --> 01:57:04,984
>> So if it's post and pier, less than

1954
01:57:04,984 --> 01:57:07,920
4' the screen would still be around the

1955
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:10,723
House, and so between the stair, and

1956
01:57:10,723 --> 01:57:13,590
the post and pier mesh that is around

1957
01:57:13,590 --> 01:57:14,660
the House, there should be no problem

1958
01:57:14,660 --> 01:57:18,260
as far as ember instructions intrusion

1959
01:57:24,137 --> 01:57:27,140
under the House. >> So it's not as --

1960
01:57:27,140 --> 01:57:31,411
>> It's not as severe. When we had -- Fire Chief --

1961
01:57:31,411 --> 01:57:36,811
when we had our wildfire folks at U.S.

1962
01:57:37,817 --> 01:57:40,217
Fire alliance solutions and

1963
01:57:46,626 --> 01:57:49,495
underwriters laboratory assess that it

1964
01:57:49,495 --> 01:57:50,696
wasn't a vulnerable point.

1965
01:57:50,696 --> 01:57:53,433
>> The ember could still get under the

1966
01:57:53,433 --> 01:57:58,233
stairs; right? >> Yes as far as a wind-driven

1967
01:57:59,439 --> 01:58:01,640
event it has less exposure area,

1968
01:58:01,640 --> 01:58:02,775
Chief, if you want to?

1969
01:58:02,775 --> 01:58:05,378
>> I'm just trying to visualize the

1970
01:58:05,378 --> 01:58:07,714
difference between house and stair as

1971
01:58:07,714 --> 01:58:11,117
it relates to embers? >> When you have a whole

1972
01:58:11,117 --> 01:58:14,120
house, apsame thing with the post and post

1973
01:58:14,120 --> 01:58:17,323
removed, is that it's the constant

1974
01:58:17,323 --> 01:58:19,526
accumulation of embers in a particular

1975
01:58:19,526 --> 01:58:21,926
pocket; right? Particularly those

1976
01:58:29,736 --> 01:58:32,800
perpendicular areas 12" at that intersection.

1977
01:58:32,800 --> 01:58:35,800
Discussions with dokeey solutions and

1978
01:58:35,617 --> 01:58:38,619
U.S. Fire alliance many high wind

1979
01:58:38,619 --> 01:58:42,557
situations will push the embers off the

1980
01:58:42,557 --> 01:58:43,825
stair and hitting the wall side and

1981
01:58:43,825 --> 01:58:45,627
dropping down to the base, where it's

1982
01:58:45,627 --> 01:58:50,565
going to have that flashing, or concrete for slab on grade

1983
01:58:50,565 --> 01:58:52,900
houses or it's going to be prevented from

1984
01:58:52,900 --> 01:58:55,300
going under the mesh.

1985
01:58:55,904 --> 01:59:00,704
Chief, I'm looking at you. >> Any additional questions

1986
01:59:05,179 --> 01:59:06,114
for the Amendment?

1987
01:59:06,114 --> 01:59:08,516
While the rules are suspend I will take

1988
01:59:08,516 --> 01:59:11,516
public testimony for the Amendment.

1989
01:59:16,591 --> 01:59:20,191
Any public testimony, come on up.

1990
01:59:23,731 --> 01:59:27,331
>> Good morning everyone. Tommy Paserelle, Lihu'e.

1991
01:59:32,140 --> 01:59:35,740
I will read something real quick.

1992
01:59:38,547 --> 01:59:43,347
Excuse me. Does anyone know the oath of

1993
01:59:47,288 --> 01:59:49,692
office that you took when you became

1994
01:59:49,692 --> 01:59:51,260
County Council people?

1995
01:59:51,260 --> 01:59:56,898
Can anyone pull that up? >> We have to wear to uphold

1996
01:59:56,898 --> 01:59:59,300
The Constitution of the United

1997
01:59:59,300 --> 02:00:00,835
States, The Constitution of the State of

1998
02:00:00,835 --> 02:00:02,360
Hawai'i the Charter of the County of

1999
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:04,439
Kaua'i and all the laws there within.

2000
02:00:04,439 --> 02:00:08,639
>> Ask anyone else know that by heart?

2001
02:00:13,381 --> 02:00:15,917
You took an oath of office for what she

2002
02:00:15,917 --> 02:00:18,253
said and does the Director of That

2003
02:00:18,253 --> 02:00:20,588
Department take an oath of office to do

2004
02:00:20,588 --> 02:00:24,926
that? Well, I will tell you right now

2005
02:00:24,926 --> 02:00:27,261
this is a violation of life, liberty

2006
02:00:27,261 --> 02:00:29,650
and property. Is that the 14th Amendment, I

2007
02:00:29,650 --> 02:00:31,599
believe? Who is the government to tell

2008
02:00:31,599 --> 02:00:34,269
you how to build something?

2009
02:00:34,269 --> 02:00:36,938
If you guys want safe zones put safe

2010
02:00:36,938 --> 02:00:40,900
zones that can protect somebody from

2011
02:00:40,900 --> 02:00:42,611
fires in every strategic location of

2012
02:00:42,611 --> 02:00:45,546
this island. We don't have enough water.

2013
02:00:45,546 --> 02:00:48,150
We have plenty of water, obviously, but

2014
02:00:48,150 --> 02:00:51,150
we don't have the infrastructure.

2015
02:00:59,693 --> 02:01:06,293
Water goes downhill. I didn't mean to say that as a

2016
02:01:06,969 --> 02:01:10,439
derogatory. You take your job very

2017
02:01:10,439 --> 02:01:12,573
seriously and I don't know how many hours you

2018
02:01:12,573 --> 02:01:15,844
average a week, but I highly recommend

2019
02:01:15,844 --> 02:01:18,580
four-year term limits, and Mel told me he

2020
02:01:18,580 --> 02:01:21,715
agrees to that when I attacked to him

2021
02:01:21,715 --> 02:01:22,517
at Hale Lihu'e at the end of the

2022
02:01:22,517 --> 02:01:25,920
meeting. That question didn't even make

2023
02:01:25,920 --> 02:01:27,856
it through KKCR to radio Annie at

2024
02:01:27,856 --> 02:01:29,792
the front of the room.

2025
02:01:29,792 --> 02:01:32,473
You guys take that oath of office very

2026
02:01:32,473 --> 02:01:36,410
seriously. This 35 pages, I don't know who

2027
02:01:36,410 --> 02:01:37,277
if AI wrote this?

2028
02:01:37,277 --> 02:01:40,547
I don't know who wrote it, but we don't

2029
02:01:40,547 --> 02:01:42,816
need a 35-page recommendation when we

2030
02:01:42,816 --> 02:01:45,850
don't even have Fire extinguishers in

2031
02:01:45,850 --> 02:01:49,423
most of our properties. Most people don't even have

2032
02:01:49,423 --> 02:01:51,492
alarm system for burglary, for Fire,

2033
02:01:51,492 --> 02:01:53,294
that could be go right to the Police

2034
02:01:53,294 --> 02:01:58,164
Department and Fire Department. So part of an issue with Fire

2035
02:01:58,164 --> 02:02:01,164
is the proper notification that

2036
02:02:02,236 --> 02:02:03,437
something bad has happened.

2037
02:02:03,437 --> 02:02:05,172
Maui dropped the ball in a huge way and

2038
02:02:05,172 --> 02:02:08,174
all of these fires on the mainland,

2039
02:02:08,174 --> 02:02:10,377
please do your research. These are not natural

2040
02:02:10,377 --> 02:02:12,777
occurrences. There's arsons involved.

2041
02:02:13,580 --> 02:02:17,251
There's land grabs involved, and -- --

2042
02:02:17,251 --> 02:02:20,921
I don't know who did the investigation

2043
02:02:20,921 --> 02:02:25,721
for the Maui wildfires? Why do we call

2044
02:02:27,600 --> 02:02:30,660
them wildfires, Maui wildfires is one

2045
02:02:32,866 --> 02:02:35,680
of them and I highly recommend this

2046
02:02:35,680 --> 02:02:39,268
thing gets thrown in the trash and

2047
02:02:40,809 --> 02:02:44,211
shredded. I see Fern says she kind of

2048
02:02:44,211 --> 02:02:49,282
agrees with me to shred this Bill and start

2049
02:02:49,282 --> 02:02:50,417
from scratch.

2050
02:02:50,417 --> 02:02:56,356
We need a new bus Director. I don't need to keep bringing

2051
02:02:56,356 --> 02:03:00,428
that up, but she laughed at me on the

2052
02:03:00,428 --> 02:03:00,894
phone twice.

2053
02:03:00,894 --> 02:03:02,762
Thank you. >> Thank you.

2054
02:03:02,762 --> 02:03:05,232
Anyone else wishing to testify on the

2055
02:03:05,232 --> 02:03:07,632
Amendment? >> Good morning, Council

2056
02:03:10,971 --> 02:03:14,571
Members. I'm Melanie Pimental and to

2057
02:03:25,385 --> 02:03:28,322
underscore our support of the Bill as

2058
02:03:28,322 --> 02:03:30,322
currently amended.

2059
02:03:30,991 --> 02:03:33,460
We wanted to commend the Council and

2060
02:03:33,460 --> 02:03:34,861
especially the Administration for

2061
02:03:34,861 --> 02:03:39,661
coming to us to work out solutions in

2062
02:03:40,266 --> 02:03:41,735
considering these changes for our

2063
02:03:41,735 --> 02:03:44,404
community, and what really might make

2064
02:03:44,404 --> 02:03:48,400
things afford able especially for a

2065
02:03:50,944 --> 02:03:54,547
program like ours working with the very

2066
02:03:54,547 --> 02:04:01,221
low-income 80% AMI and below. You know, we put in a number of

2067
02:04:01,221 --> 02:04:03,357
hours, and work to achieve what you

2068
02:04:03,357 --> 02:04:06,426
see in front of you in the attachment

2069
02:04:06,426 --> 02:04:08,628
to our letter testimony and we're

2070
02:04:08,628 --> 02:04:10,364
satisfied with the Bill as it is.

2071
02:04:10,364 --> 02:04:14,101
One of the things that made this

2072
02:04:14,101 --> 02:04:15,368
definitely acceptable and the numbers

2073
02:04:15,368 --> 02:04:20,400
work out in our favor was the ability

2074
02:04:20,400 --> 02:04:26,450
to waive the FRC charges. Now of course, as an affordable

2075
02:04:26,450 --> 02:04:27,849
developer with able to have exemptions

2076
02:04:27,849 --> 02:04:30,850
along the way in certain County requirements like the FRC

2077
02:04:30,850 --> 02:04:33,602
already. So that's always been a help

2078
02:04:33,602 --> 02:04:38,402
for us, and again, in hook looking at

2079
02:04:43,945 --> 02:04:45,681
these considerations for our

2080
02:04:45,681 --> 02:04:47,949
population to meet the costs of construction

2081
02:04:47,949 --> 02:04:49,949
and development.

2082
02:04:54,490 --> 02:04:56,890
Donega? >> Again, Donna Rice,

2083
02:04:58,494 --> 02:05:00,494
President of habitat.

2084
02:05:00,762 --> 02:05:04,962
Just to emphasize the ability to build

2085
02:05:06,435 --> 02:05:10,105
safe homes for this lower end group is

2086
02:05:10,105 --> 02:05:13,175
very important. Many of the homes as you know,

2087
02:05:13,175 --> 02:05:15,244
we have been building on the West side,

2088
02:05:15,244 --> 02:05:17,446
which has a higher Fire hazard, even

2089
02:05:17,446 --> 02:05:19,849
though we're going to be building all

2090
02:05:19,849 --> 02:05:21,584
over the island, going into the future.

2091
02:05:21,584 --> 02:05:24,320
But to be able to have a home that we

2092
02:05:24,320 --> 02:05:29,391
know thoo tha is going to last a long

2093
02:05:29,391 --> 02:05:34,791
time with construction and the environment and Fire protection

2094
02:05:37,533 --> 02:05:39,401
be a lower cost to homeowners,

2095
02:05:39,401 --> 02:05:42,671
because if we can build homes with Fire

2096
02:05:42,671 --> 02:05:44,273
preventing materials is going to lower the

2097
02:05:44,273 --> 02:05:46,208
cost of their insurance.

2098
02:05:46,208 --> 02:05:49,808
The slight increase in the built

2099
02:05:50,145 --> 02:05:52,748
materials we're able to absorb, and be

2100
02:05:52,748 --> 02:05:57,548
able to still pass on a low-income home

2101
02:05:58,154 --> 02:06:00,556
for them. One that they can afford, one

2102
02:06:00,556 --> 02:06:05,356
that they can be able to attain a

2103
02:06:06,429 --> 02:06:09,498
mortgage. And so we feel good with the

2104
02:06:09,498 --> 02:06:12,434
Bill, and the Amendments that are being

2105
02:06:12,434 --> 02:06:14,834
presented to you today.

2106
02:06:15,637 --> 02:06:18,240
>> Before we end our time here I did

2107
02:06:18,240 --> 02:06:21,977
want to share that my colleague in Maui

2108
02:06:21,977 --> 02:06:23,846
at the Maui Habitat for Humanity has

2109
02:06:23,846 --> 02:06:29,785
been through this, obviously. And for me, the value in this

2110
02:06:29,785 --> 02:06:33,521
Bill kind of sits heavy on my shoulders

2111
02:06:33,521 --> 02:06:36,191
as a nonprofit leader as a nonprofit

2112
02:06:36,191 --> 02:06:38,191
builder and developer.

2113
02:06:38,460 --> 02:06:42,600
Maui habitat lost in 2023 during the

2114
02:06:42,730 --> 02:06:45,200
fires homes out of their subdivision

2115
02:06:45,200 --> 02:06:47,469
that completely burned to the ground

2116
02:06:47,469 --> 02:06:49,738
and fortunate their homeowners were

2117
02:06:49,738 --> 02:06:54,209
well-insured with some gaps. But this is, I think, we're all

2118
02:06:54,209 --> 02:06:55,678
concerned with safety in our communitys

2119
02:06:55,678 --> 02:06:59,278
with the ever changing environment, and

2120
02:07:00,820 --> 02:07:02,684
other pressing needs that kind of weigh

2121
02:07:02,684 --> 02:07:04,686
on our costs and other considerations.

2122
02:07:04,686 --> 02:07:08,957
So I urge you folks to consider passing

2123
02:07:08,957 --> 02:07:10,826
this Bill as amended, and really

2124
02:07:10,826 --> 02:07:12,762
commend you for your deep thoughts and

2125
02:07:12,762 --> 02:07:15,762
consideration on this. Thank you.

2126
02:07:17,833 --> 02:07:19,369
>> Any additional testimony on the

2127
02:07:19,369 --> 02:07:22,369
Amendment? >> On just the Amendment.

2128
02:07:24,239 --> 02:07:26,239
>> The Amendment. Yes.

2129
02:07:26,975 --> 02:07:31,175
>> Just the Amendment. Seeing none, just the

2130
02:07:32,733 --> 02:07:35,733
Amendment? >> For the whole Bill?

2131
02:07:37,938 --> 02:07:41,274
>> Just the Amendment. >> Can I give suggestions for

2132
02:07:41,274 --> 02:07:43,210
Amendments? >> You can make suggestions to

2133
02:07:43,210 --> 02:07:44,745
the Amendment.

2134
02:07:44,745 --> 02:07:50,145
The existing Amendment, yes. >> Start with your name and

2135
02:07:52,152 --> 02:07:54,152
push the button.

2136
02:07:55,822 --> 02:07:58,822
>> Brian Bowers the President of

2137
02:07:58,826 --> 02:08:01,628
Artistic builders corporation. A little background, grew up in

2138
02:08:01,628 --> 02:08:04,298
Maui and very sensitive to the Maui

2139
02:08:04,298 --> 02:08:07,968
Fires in Kihei, we spent a lot of time

2140
02:08:07,968 --> 02:08:11,568
in Lahaina, built all over Maui

2141
02:08:12,506 --> 02:08:13,307
and Big Island.

2142
02:08:13,307 --> 02:08:17,244
So have done a lot of building. Very sensitive to the Fire

2143
02:08:17,244 --> 02:08:20,514
situation. We were building in Lahaina

2144
02:08:20,514 --> 02:08:22,649
when the Fire hit and we ended up being

2145
02:08:22,649 --> 02:08:24,852
part of the couple of the temporary

2146
02:08:24,852 --> 02:08:25,452
housing project.

2147
02:08:25,452 --> 02:08:27,988
I don't know if you heard about that

2148
02:08:27,988 --> 02:08:32,126
one, doing 50 homes in less than six

2149
02:08:32,126 --> 02:08:36,326
months and the majority done before the

2150
02:08:37,797 --> 02:08:38,799
first-year anniversary, flying folks

2151
02:08:38,799 --> 02:08:41,868
from Kaua'i for the workforce. So make the best of a bad

2152
02:08:41,868 --> 02:08:43,270
situation; right? A couple of concerns

2153
02:08:43,270 --> 02:08:46,600
that I had, I think in principle, I

2154
02:08:46,600 --> 02:08:48,208
like what we're trying to do, keep people

2155
02:08:48,208 --> 02:08:52,408
safe; right? That is the lives is

2156
02:08:52,546 --> 02:08:55,149
most important and Ka'aina and

2157
02:08:55,149 --> 02:08:56,349
Alicia were great.

2158
02:08:56,349 --> 02:08:58,685
I had concerns and I talked to them and

2159
02:08:58,685 --> 02:09:02,222
very helpful in talking through it. So

2160
02:09:02,222 --> 02:09:04,825
I appreciate the time. From a building standpoint, the

2161
02:09:04,825 --> 02:09:08,762
setbacks if you have a 45' house, 15'

2162
02:09:08,762 --> 02:09:11,297
on each side, that house gets really,

2163
02:09:11,297 --> 02:09:13,967
really narrow and then it's a 15'

2164
02:09:13,967 --> 02:09:19,305
house, you know? This is 15'; right? So just a

2165
02:09:19,305 --> 02:09:22,577
concern. We talked through the zero lot

2166
02:09:22,577 --> 02:09:23,777
line provision.

2167
02:09:23,777 --> 02:09:25,979
I think that is really interesting,

2168
02:09:25,979 --> 02:09:30,116
because we built a project in Pahia

2169
02:09:30,116 --> 02:09:34,316
with a shared garage line in Pahia

2170
02:09:36,857 --> 02:09:38,658
town. I think that can help with

2171
02:09:38,658 --> 02:09:41,128
that, but you have to have the whole

2172
02:09:41,128 --> 02:09:43,463
subdivision basically designed with that

2173
02:09:43,463 --> 02:09:45,933
idea in mind, if you don't do that,

2174
02:09:45,933 --> 02:09:49,202
then you know, we talked about if one

2175
02:09:49,202 --> 02:09:52,500
neighbor says you have to get the two to

2176
02:09:52,500 --> 02:09:54,208
agree, if you are one neighbor, why

2177
02:09:54,208 --> 02:09:55,809
would you agree?

2178
02:09:55,809 --> 02:09:57,744
You both have to agree that is going to

2179
02:09:57,744 --> 02:10:01,148
be your house, if I build on a zero lot

2180
02:10:01,148 --> 02:10:05,180
line, you have to be 30' away and that

2181
02:10:05,180 --> 02:10:09,489
is not useable, you have to go 15-30'

2182
02:10:09,489 --> 02:10:11,892
so it makes sense for the master land

2183
02:10:11,892 --> 02:10:13,494
communitys if you are habitat and

2184
02:10:13,494 --> 02:10:15,295
planning a subdivision and build the

2185
02:10:15,295 --> 02:10:16,897
Houses, but the subdivisions that you

2186
02:10:16,897 --> 02:10:18,698
sell the lot those homeowners that want

2187
02:10:18,698 --> 02:10:21,568
to build the House, I think that makes

2188
02:10:21,568 --> 02:10:24,571
it pretty tough. The only Amendment suggestion I

2189
02:10:24,571 --> 02:10:29,371
have is maybe a little clear on the

2190
02:10:30,310 --> 02:10:32,980
wording for like the variations, because I

2191
02:10:32,980 --> 02:10:34,648
think the variations, if you leave at

2192
02:10:34,648 --> 02:10:38,318
discretion of the Fire marshal, I think

2193
02:10:38,318 --> 02:10:40,921
us as developers and builders like

2194
02:10:40,921 --> 02:10:43,656
clear direction. It would be nice to know if you

2195
02:10:43,656 --> 02:10:45,259
do this, this, and this, you can

2196
02:10:45,259 --> 02:10:46,860
be X amount of feet.

2197
02:10:46,860 --> 02:10:54,600
I think that is one thing. the big thing I don't think

2198
02:10:54,200 --> 02:10:56,336
we're addressing the Lahaina, the big

2199
02:10:56,336 --> 02:10:59,936
fires coming from the vacant land.

2200
02:11:00,140 --> 02:11:01,608
>> If there's no additional people

2201
02:11:01,608 --> 02:11:03,610
looking to testify, you can have an

2202
02:11:03,610 --> 02:11:05,879
additional three minutes. Anyone else wishing to testify

2203
02:11:05,879 --> 02:11:07,548
for the first time?

2204
02:11:07,548 --> 02:11:10,618
I will bring you back for another three

2205
02:11:10,618 --> 02:11:12,618
minutes. Go ahead.

2206
02:11:17,224 --> 02:11:19,624
>> Good morning, Chair Bulosan.

2207
02:11:19,692 --> 02:11:25,920
Good morning, Council Members. Eliana Oakman and I'm grateful

2208
02:11:27,101 --> 02:11:28,769
we're having this discussion today,

2209
02:11:28,769 --> 02:11:30,971
because there has been so many

2210
02:11:30,971 --> 02:11:33,774
questions that have felt unanswered and

2211
02:11:33,774 --> 02:11:34,908
unclarified and what we have been

2212
02:11:34,908 --> 02:11:38,912
discussing here with the building costs that

2213
02:11:38,912 --> 02:11:43,112
increase of building costs and we don't

2214
02:11:43,717 --> 02:11:45,252
have enough housing on Kaua'i.

2215
02:11:45,252 --> 02:11:47,121
It will definitely affect low-income

2216
02:11:47,121 --> 02:11:50,721
people who will be building homes.

2217
02:11:52,459 --> 02:11:54,928
For the clarification of the 5' around

2218
02:11:54,928 --> 02:11:57,931
the House in open zones, would it

2219
02:11:57,931 --> 02:12:01,935
affect the square footage of how much

2220
02:12:01,935 --> 02:12:06,135
usable space? Because it's 10% in open zones.

2221
02:12:06,740 --> 02:12:10,744
Would it be an effect on the five feet

2222
02:12:10,744 --> 02:12:12,812
around the House how could it affect

2223
02:12:12,812 --> 02:12:15,215
this situation? I want to mention in

2224
02:12:15,215 --> 02:12:18,218
the discussion, I think we could have

2225
02:12:18,218 --> 02:12:20,687
KIUC and we had the Departments, but we

2226
02:12:20,687 --> 02:12:24,491
didn't have KIUC here to discuss how

2227
02:12:24,491 --> 02:12:28,361
like much hazard could be con by the

2228
02:12:28,361 --> 02:12:36,161
Fire, and I will add on more. when we talk about the Bill.

2229
02:12:37,503 --> 02:12:39,372
Thank you. >> Any more testimony on the

2230
02:12:39,372 --> 02:12:43,572
current Amendment that we have with the

2231
02:12:45,445 --> 02:12:47,445
House keeping proposals?

2232
02:12:48,648 --> 02:12:51,480
Come on up. >> Okay.

2233
02:12:55,789 --> 02:12:57,858
A couple of quick things the biggest

2234
02:12:57,858 --> 02:13:01,528
thing from the Lahaina Fire is why

2235
02:13:01,528 --> 02:13:03,997
Kamehameha is paying that is vacant

2236
02:13:03,997 --> 02:13:06,533
lands and not having the proper breaks.

2237
02:13:06,533 --> 02:13:09,135
I think sucdivisions do a good job of

2238
02:13:09,135 --> 02:13:12,500
mowing the subdivisions afire hydrants

2239
02:13:12,500 --> 02:13:13,873
and subdivisions between houses, I

2240
02:13:13,873 --> 02:13:15,809
think there's definitely are problems,

2241
02:13:15,809 --> 02:13:18,780
but I don't know if they are big as

2242
02:13:18,780 --> 02:13:21,481
problems -- once the Fire is huge and

2243
02:13:21,481 --> 02:13:23,216
hits the subdivision. The part that

2244
02:13:23,216 --> 02:13:27,416
burned in Lahaina is lot of older

2245
02:13:29,756 --> 02:13:31,758
single-wall construction, all wood.

2246
02:13:31,758 --> 02:13:34,497
Today we have a lot of better products

2247
02:13:34,497 --> 02:13:37,767
out there. So a couple of things.

2248
02:13:37,767 --> 02:13:42,390
The 5', I see a lot of 3' separations.

2249
02:13:42,390 --> 02:13:45,909
No plants around the Houses. I think it does preserve the

2250
02:13:45,909 --> 02:13:48,845
Houses not to have plants built up against

2251
02:13:48,845 --> 02:13:50,247
the House and seeing dry rot.

2252
02:13:50,247 --> 02:13:53,983
I don't know if 5 is the right number,

2253
02:13:53,983 --> 02:13:56,853
because you start taking away the

2254
02:13:56,853 --> 02:13:59,789
beauty from the lot. Just a couple of suggestions

2255
02:13:59,789 --> 02:14:03,393
thank you. Any more testimony on the

2256
02:14:03,393 --> 02:14:05,393
Amendment? Go ahead.

2257
02:14:10,600 --> 02:14:12,736
This is your follow-up for this Amendment.

2258
02:14:12,736 --> 02:14:16,936
>> Yes. So I did a little research

2259
02:14:20,810 --> 02:14:25,100
Knorr way, Denmark and the United Kingdom

2260
02:14:27,751 --> 02:14:30,620
due to string building kind resilient

2261
02:14:30,620 --> 02:14:33,200
construction, countries in practices

2262
02:14:35,291 --> 02:14:36,627
Norway, Nordic countries consistently

2263
02:14:36,627 --> 02:14:39,363
rank the top of global Fire Safety

2264
02:14:39,363 --> 02:14:42,980
resilience. They enforce mandatory smoke

2265
02:14:42,980 --> 02:14:44,901
alarm and laws in all residential housing

2266
02:14:44,901 --> 02:14:46,169
and maintain rigorous public

2267
02:14:46,169 --> 02:14:48,305
awareness campaigns like the Nordic smoke

2268
02:14:48,305 --> 02:14:52,505
alarm. Somebody is making money of off

2269
02:14:52,643 --> 02:14:54,643
of that.

2270
02:14:59,849 --> 02:15:02,849
UK has stringent Fire retardency

2271
02:15:03,387 --> 02:15:05,922
standards for furniture and electrical

2272
02:15:05,922 --> 02:15:08,922
system and Germania mandates smoke

2273
02:15:09,125 --> 02:15:11,795
alarms and relive heavily on primary

2274
02:15:11,795 --> 02:15:14,795
building materials like stone, brick,

2275
02:15:16,132 --> 02:15:19,336
rather than light timber and key

2276
02:15:19,336 --> 02:15:21,736
preventing factors mandatory ketectors

2277
02:15:22,739 --> 02:15:25,139
enforcing laws requiring interconnected

2278
02:15:26,476 --> 02:15:30,760
smoke alarms in bedrooms and every

2279
02:15:30,547 --> 02:15:32,947
level. masonry and concrete

2280
02:15:34,617 --> 02:15:36,619
construction, which naturally limits the

2281
02:15:36,619 --> 02:15:39,619
spread to wood framed housing.

2282
02:15:40,557 --> 02:15:42,559
Electrical furniture standards, strict

2283
02:15:42,559 --> 02:15:46,759
regional regulations regarding groundsed electrical plugs and

2284
02:15:47,164 --> 02:15:49,564
Fire retardant furnishings reduce

2285
02:15:49,700 --> 02:15:50,234
ignition sources.

2286
02:15:50,234 --> 02:15:53,703
If you want more details I will senit

2287
02:15:53,703 --> 02:15:56,973
to the County Council. This is what I found yesterday

2288
02:15:56,973 --> 02:15:59,576
at the house Department, we're still

2289
02:15:59,576 --> 02:16:00,176
poisoning our keiki.

2290
02:16:00,176 --> 02:16:04,976
>> Thank you, Tommy. You can send that over.

2291
02:16:08,117 --> 02:16:11,454
>> I have more time? >> On the Amendment.

2292
02:16:11,454 --> 02:16:15,540
>> Are we looking to prevent property

2293
02:16:15,392 --> 02:16:18,728
damage, or prevent lives being damaged?

2294
02:16:18,728 --> 02:16:21,665
So one of the things that causes a lot

2295
02:16:21,665 --> 02:16:24,200
of property damage is water damage.

2296
02:16:24,200 --> 02:16:27,404
So there's got to be healthier ways of

2297
02:16:27,404 --> 02:16:29,940
dealing with fires, such as vacuums.

2298
02:16:29,940 --> 02:16:33,816
So we should look into technology that

2299
02:16:33,816 --> 02:16:38,160
doesn't result in the damaging of that

2300
02:16:38,821 --> 02:16:40,756
property, like Wb had a Fire and been

2301
02:16:40,756 --> 02:16:43,493
shut down for a while. I don't know what type of Fire

2302
02:16:43,493 --> 02:16:45,360
suppression system they have at their

2303
02:16:45,360 --> 02:16:46,896
place, but we should look at the

2304
02:16:46,896 --> 02:16:48,764
different Fires that occurred on Kaua'i

2305
02:16:48,764 --> 02:16:51,501
the last ten years and say what could

2306
02:16:51,501 --> 02:16:53,236
have saved this versus that and we need

2307
02:16:53,236 --> 02:16:56,172
to do our research before we pass a

2308
02:16:56,172 --> 02:16:58,307
35-page Bill. Thank you.

2309
02:16:58,307 --> 02:17:00,510
>> Thank you. Any more additional testimony

2310
02:17:00,510 --> 02:17:02,510
on the Amendment?

2311
02:17:05,981 --> 02:17:07,917
Since the rules are still suspended I

2312
02:17:07,917 --> 02:17:13,317
want to Director Hull >> Thank you, Director can you

2313
02:17:24,667 --> 02:17:26,268
talk about the testimony received

2314
02:17:26,268 --> 02:17:27,871
about setback and addressing the

2315
02:17:27,871 --> 02:17:29,404
concerns specifically brought up by the

2316
02:17:29,404 --> 02:17:33,400
testifier? >> So the setbacks are only

2317
02:17:33,809 --> 02:17:36,812
for vacant lots and larger subdivisions.

2318
02:17:36,812 --> 02:17:41,170
Ten or more units. Those are generally subject to

2319
02:17:41,170 --> 02:17:44,170
requirements in the subdivision for

2320
02:17:44,820 --> 02:17:46,221
landscapeing already, and going through

2321
02:17:46,221 --> 02:17:50,493
the master planning process. The provision that was

2322
02:17:50,493 --> 02:17:53,829
specifically referenced saying that the lot

2323
02:17:53,829 --> 02:17:58,629
line can be reduced in scenario has it

2324
02:17:58,968 --> 02:18:01,370
all property owners agree.

2325
02:18:01,370 --> 02:18:04,370
Candiedly that will rarely happen.

2326
02:18:04,507 --> 02:18:07,175
You won't get both property owners in

2327
02:18:07,175 --> 02:18:09,111
an existing situation that are going to

2328
02:18:09,111 --> 02:18:11,180
say yes, you can build to the property

2329
02:18:11,180 --> 02:18:13,449
line and we'll build next to you.

2330
02:18:13,449 --> 02:18:15,118
That will rarely happen, but different

2331
02:18:15,118 --> 02:18:17,252
the opportunity for future subdivisions

2332
02:18:17,252 --> 02:18:20,322
saying if this scenario happens and all

2333
02:18:20,322 --> 02:18:23,392
the property owners agree, we want to

2334
02:18:23,392 --> 02:18:26,262
provide that stub-out as well. >> When you are talking about

2335
02:18:26,262 --> 02:18:29,650
15' on either side and 40' house was

2336
02:18:29,650 --> 02:18:30,600
the number.

2337
02:18:30,600 --> 02:18:32,134
>> 40' lot. >> Okay.

2338
02:18:32,134 --> 02:18:39,334
So can you address that? >> So to go -- x Director just

2339
02:18:39,808 --> 02:18:41,878
to make sure we're tieing this in with

2340
02:18:41,878 --> 02:18:43,878
the Amendment.

2341
02:18:44,813 --> 02:18:47,617
>> It's in the Amendment for the

2342
02:18:47,617 --> 02:18:52,417
reduction. rarely would you have a lot 45'

2343
02:19:12,375 --> 02:19:15,975
wide. We did an analysis for 4500

2344
02:19:16,912 --> 02:19:20,512
square foot lots currently existing, and

2345
02:19:20,783 --> 02:19:24,983
those were 55' by about 79-00'.

2346
02:19:26,550 --> 02:19:30,255
80', 15' setback would provide for 30'

2347
02:19:30,592 --> 02:19:34,792
width wide home. Again there's provisions to

2348
02:19:35,811 --> 02:19:37,790
reduce that setback as well.

2349
02:19:37,790 --> 02:19:40,150
>> So there's provisions that would

2350
02:19:40,150 --> 02:19:41,950
allow for a houseing on a smaller

2351
02:19:41,950 --> 02:19:45,550
parcel such as that to potentially

2352
02:19:50,910 --> 02:19:53,962
accommodate for that? >> To be clear, with the 55'

2353
02:19:53,962 --> 02:19:56,765
width was on the smallest lot permissible

2354
02:19:56,765 --> 02:19:59,368
in the County Code right now.

2355
02:19:59,368 --> 02:20:02,368
That is 6,000 to 10,000 standard lot.

2356
02:20:03,505 --> 02:20:05,840
And those can -- as we demonstrated in

2357
02:20:05,840 --> 02:20:09,978
the handout, those can clearly accommodate the setbacks.

2358
02:20:09,978 --> 02:20:12,247
But again, there is that Amendment is

2359
02:20:12,247 --> 02:20:17,647
to allow for reduction with consultation with the Fire

2360
02:20:18,787 --> 02:20:19,388
Chief on design.

2361
02:20:19,388 --> 02:20:21,856
>> Thank you very much. >> Any additional questions

2362
02:20:21,856 --> 02:20:24,192
for the Amendment for Admin?

2363
02:20:24,192 --> 02:20:27,529
Council Member Cowden. >> The same testifier Brian

2364
02:20:27,529 --> 02:20:31,729
raised a good point about making the

2365
02:20:33,868 --> 02:20:37,468
"Mays" and discretionary elements have a

2366
02:20:41,343 --> 02:20:42,744
predictable element to consider?

2367
02:20:42,744 --> 02:20:45,814
What tends to make this "may" happen?

2368
02:20:45,814 --> 02:20:48,884
On E, it's the really non-combustible

2369
02:20:48,884 --> 02:20:51,153
material; right? That is pretty

2370
02:20:51,153 --> 02:20:52,821
clear, but probably what isn't clear is

2371
02:20:52,821 --> 02:20:57,210
how much that distance would be adapted?

2372
02:20:57,920 --> 02:20:59,628
How to in our small community typically

2373
02:20:59,628 --> 02:21:02,697
they go and have a conversation, and

2374
02:21:02,697 --> 02:21:04,967
it's negotiated. Is that what happens?

2375
02:21:04,967 --> 02:21:08,370
Like, when we say how much it -- that

2376
02:21:08,370 --> 02:21:10,505
setback distance may be reduced, I

2377
02:21:10,505 --> 02:21:14,705
think his trouble was with that vagary

2378
02:21:15,310 --> 02:21:20,916
of what may be reduced, 5', 10'? >> It is not going to be a

2379
02:21:20,916 --> 02:21:22,117
discussion with the community.

2380
02:21:22,117 --> 02:21:24,453
Again, this is not existing built

2381
02:21:24,453 --> 02:21:26,922
environment, but with a single developer.

2382
02:21:26,922 --> 02:21:29,858
So that single developer, who is

2383
02:21:29,858 --> 02:21:32,460
proposeing a 4500 square foot lot or

2384
02:21:32,460 --> 02:21:35,331
smaller is going to be a really rare

2385
02:21:35,331 --> 02:21:37,933
occasion. We do anticipate it, and that

2386
02:21:37,933 --> 02:21:41,533
stub-out is made explicitly for those

2387
02:21:42,204 --> 02:21:44,600
applications. On the rare application it's

2388
02:21:44,600 --> 02:21:45,673
necessary, that is when that conversation

2389
02:21:45,673 --> 02:21:47,876
happens and it happens either during

2390
02:21:47,876 --> 02:21:49,411
the project development use phase

2391
02:21:49,411 --> 02:21:52,681
at Planning Commission, or at the

2392
02:21:52,681 --> 02:21:54,884
201H state affordable housing

2393
02:21:54,884 --> 02:21:56,884
process. >> Okay.

2394
02:21:57,419 --> 02:21:59,819
>> Having said that, additional

2395
02:22:02,624 --> 02:22:03,825
administrative rules certainly can be

2396
02:22:03,825 --> 02:22:07,897
set up alongs had lines as well. >> Could be set up and

2397
02:22:07,897 --> 02:22:11,497
developers would be able to residence

2398
02:22:12,767 --> 02:22:14,637
them. >> Absolutely.

2399
02:22:14,637 --> 02:22:17,305
>> Sometimes we hear cries out it can

2400
02:22:17,305 --> 02:22:18,707
be discretionary that works for this

2401
02:22:18,707 --> 02:22:25,307
group, but not for that group. not suggesting any not fair

2402
02:22:32,540 --> 02:22:34,560
about you or you are Department, but

2403
02:22:34,560 --> 02:22:35,873
thinking what is ten years from now.

2404
02:22:35,873 --> 02:22:37,875
>> Understand. >> Council Member Kaneshiro.

2405
02:22:37,875 --> 02:22:40,875
>> Clarifying question. The previous testifier

2406
02:22:40,878 --> 02:22:42,213
mentioned 15' setback.

2407
02:22:42,213 --> 02:22:43,614
Can you clarify what the setbacks are?

2408
02:22:43,614 --> 02:22:49,754
I thought it was five feet? >> So that is the existing

2409
02:22:49,754 --> 02:22:51,289
setbacks is 5', half the height and that

2410
02:22:51,289 --> 02:22:55,493
will be in play for all of Kaua'i.

2411
02:22:55,493 --> 02:22:59,430
The only time these 15' property line

2412
02:22:59,430 --> 02:23:04,768
setbacks come into play is for brand-new subdivisions that are

2413
02:23:04,768 --> 02:23:06,104
fully vacant and have no development

2414
02:23:06,104 --> 02:23:10,508
on them and the 15' setback is in play

2415
02:23:10,508 --> 02:23:12,576
for those lots. It's 15' side is

2416
02:23:12,576 --> 02:23:16,246
the bac, but can be reduced with flag

2417
02:23:16,246 --> 02:23:19,490
lots with driveways in that, so the 15'

2418
02:23:19,490 --> 02:23:22,319
could be reduced because the driveway

2419
02:23:22,319 --> 02:23:26,519
functions as the buffer and reduced to

2420
02:23:29,793 --> 02:23:31,862
the front 5-10', because the road also

2421
02:23:31,862 --> 02:23:35,665
serves as did buffer for the property.

2422
02:23:35,665 --> 02:23:39,870
>> Any additional questions? Seeing none, I will call the

2423
02:23:39,870 --> 02:23:41,138
meeting back to order.

2424
02:23:41,138 --> 02:23:44,738
Any further discussion on the Amendment?

2425
02:23:51,482 --> 02:23:52,616
Roll-call vote for the Amendment.

2426
02:23:52,616 --> 02:23:54,286
>> Council Member Kollar. >> Aye.

2427
02:23:54,286 --> 02:23:54,952
>> C quoden? >> Aye.

2428
02:23:54,952 --> 02:23:56,870
>> Council Member Kaneshiro? >> Aye.

2429
02:23:56,870 --> 02:23:58,890
>> Council Member Kuali'i? >> Aye.

2430
02:23:58,890 --> 02:24:00,489
>> Committee Chair Bulosan? >> Aye.

2431
02:24:01,759 --> 02:24:03,759
>> Passes. >> Go ahead.

2432
02:24:04,428 --> 02:24:07,364
>> I have two Amendments coming from

2433
02:24:07,364 --> 02:24:09,330
Council Member Holland, who is not on

2434
02:24:09,330 --> 02:24:12,769
the Planning Committee. So I would like to amend as

2435
02:24:12,769 --> 02:24:14,769
circulated. >> Second.

2436
02:24:17,508 --> 02:24:19,244
>> So the Amendment regarding the

2437
02:24:19,244 --> 02:24:22,844
wall. I think it changes the

2438
02:24:30,540 --> 02:24:30,855
start-date. >> Moved and seconded.

2439
02:24:30,855 --> 02:24:33,858
If you could explain the Amendment,

2440
02:24:33,858 --> 02:24:37,458
please. I know it's being circulated.

2441
02:24:38,795 --> 02:24:42,395
>> Okay. So last meeting, you probably

2442
02:24:42,400 --> 02:24:45,202
recall that I was trying to search for

2443
02:24:45,202 --> 02:24:47,204
alternatives to the 5' hard scape and I

2444
02:24:47,204 --> 02:24:49,141
understand that is a limiting factor

2445
02:24:49,141 --> 02:24:54,612
for some people, even if not financially, if the cost is

2446
02:24:54,612 --> 02:24:56,547
more, I would still love there to be

2447
02:24:56,547 --> 02:24:57,548
options provided.

2448
02:24:57,548 --> 02:25:02,860
So that people have choices. So what I did was I did some

2449
02:25:02,860 --> 02:25:03,155
brief research about different places

2450
02:25:03,155 --> 02:25:06,900
in Australia, why Black Saturday

2451
02:25:06,900 --> 02:25:07,357
happened in Victoria and some of the

2452
02:25:07,357 --> 02:25:10,227
places that deal with Fire a lot.

2453
02:25:10,227 --> 02:25:13,831
And it does look like there are some

2454
02:25:13,831 --> 02:25:18,903
codes that exist. So the science team went back

2455
02:25:18,903 --> 02:25:21,104
and looked at the what those things

2456
02:25:21,104 --> 02:25:24,704
were and did say under this

2457
02:25:25,642 --> 02:25:27,845
situation with non-combustible walls, which is

2458
02:25:27,845 --> 02:25:29,581
an increased cost to just gravel

2459
02:25:29,581 --> 02:25:30,180
your home.

2460
02:25:30,180 --> 02:25:33,780
If you had non-combustible walls with

2461
02:25:38,274 --> 02:25:40,900
specific metal shutters included this

2462
02:25:40,900 --> 02:25:44,209
could serve as an additional option to

2463
02:25:46,749 --> 02:25:50,754
avoid the 5' hard scape. If we want to call Planning

2464
02:25:50,754 --> 02:25:52,956
back up. They have been helping me with

2465
02:25:52,956 --> 02:25:55,225
the science side of what they are

2466
02:25:55,225 --> 02:25:56,960
comfortable with. >> I have a clarifying

2467
02:25:56,960 --> 02:25:58,940
question. >> Go ahead.

2468
02:25:58,940 --> 02:26:02,980
>> So it removes any of that? So it could have soil and grass

2469
02:26:02,980 --> 02:26:03,100
or ground cover, whatever?

2470
02:26:03,100 --> 02:26:06,169
>> Yes, it would remove the hard scape

2471
02:26:06,169 --> 02:26:08,104
requirement of 5' surrounding the home,

2472
02:26:08,104 --> 02:26:09,773
under the conditions that the waltz

2473
02:26:09,773 --> 02:26:13,430
were specific grade and Ka'aina, expand

2474
02:26:13,430 --> 02:26:14,911
on what those specifics are, if you

2475
02:26:14,911 --> 02:26:16,446
could, because I know you have done a

2476
02:26:16,446 --> 02:26:19,649
lot of research on it. >> I will suspend the rules .

2477
02:26:19,649 --> 02:26:21,851
Ka'aina Hull with Fire Chief Gibson.

2478
02:26:21,851 --> 02:26:23,987
So Council Member Holland brought the

2479
02:26:23,987 --> 02:26:27,570
idea up that Australia did have codes

2480
02:26:27,570 --> 02:26:33,570
without ground scape. We did look into it there are

2481
02:26:34,865 --> 02:26:35,799
several options reviewed.

2482
02:26:35,799 --> 02:26:39,999
This was the final option that was

2483
02:26:40,337 --> 02:26:43,874
reviewed by U.S. Fire alliance, dokei

2484
02:26:43,874 --> 02:26:46,874
solutions, as well as underwriters

2485
02:26:46,877 --> 02:26:48,478
laboratory and all three came back

2486
02:26:48,478 --> 02:26:50,547
saying this would be ang adequate

2487
02:26:50,547 --> 02:26:54,147
response to exempting out the hard

2488
02:26:54,550 --> 02:26:58,210
scape. So it's been provided as an

2489
02:26:58,210 --> 02:26:59,889
option. It's not a cheaper option buc

2490
02:26:59,889 --> 02:27:02,289
it is an option.

2491
02:27:07,230 --> 02:27:09,990
>> Thank you, Director. >> Any questions for Planning

2492
02:27:09,990 --> 02:27:12,990
regarding this Amendment? No questions.

2493
02:27:14,904 --> 02:27:17,841
While the rules are suspended I will do

2494
02:27:17,841 --> 02:27:20,841
public testimony on this specific

2495
02:27:22,440 --> 02:27:25,649
Amendment. Is there any testimony on this

2496
02:27:25,649 --> 02:27:27,649
specific Amendment?

2497
02:27:40,263 --> 02:27:42,932
>> Chair Bulosan, Members of Council.

2498
02:27:42,932 --> 02:27:45,935
I'm going to use my testimony for this

2499
02:27:45,935 --> 02:27:49,535
Amendment, because it is regarding my

2500
02:27:50,540 --> 02:27:55,340
name is Anna modez and use my allotted

2501
02:27:58,810 --> 02:27:59,349
time back-to-back, because I'm very

2502
02:27:59,349 --> 02:28:01,150
late for work. So I would appreciate that.

2503
02:28:01,150 --> 02:28:04,750
>> We can do that. >> Thank you.

2504
02:28:07,824 --> 02:28:09,959
This is very enlightening to listen to

2505
02:28:09,959 --> 02:28:12,429
the testimony this morning. So I do appreciate being here

2506
02:28:12,429 --> 02:28:14,829
to listen to it.

2507
02:28:15,165 --> 02:28:17,901
And my suspicion on when I first read

2508
02:28:17,901 --> 02:28:20,236
this Bill that whoever designed it

2509
02:28:20,236 --> 02:28:22,305
isn't from Kaua'i, and it's confirmed

2510
02:28:22,305 --> 02:28:28,905
with what I have heard today. the Topography here is very

2511
02:28:31,448 --> 02:28:34,116
diverse. So although it does with the

2512
02:28:34,116 --> 02:28:37,716
language that I'm hearing it doesn't

2513
02:28:38,121 --> 02:28:40,521
require for any existing.

2514
02:28:41,793 --> 02:28:44,261
I want to direct your attention to page

2515
02:28:44,261 --> 02:28:47,861
24, Section 15 reads Chapter 8 Comprehensive Zoning Ordinance

2516
02:28:49,333 --> 02:28:52,333
Kaua'i County Code, 1987, as amended

2517
02:28:52,469 --> 02:28:55,469
is amended by amending Section 8

2518
02:28:56,806 --> 02:28:59,206
through 4.5 standards of development

2519
02:29:00,677 --> 02:29:02,880
applicable to all residential development

2520
02:29:02,880 --> 02:29:06,480
by adding new subsections 8-4.35e

2521
02:29:06,484 --> 02:29:09,484
and 8 .5f to be appropriately

2522
02:29:11,555 --> 02:29:14,555
encertificated to read as follows.

2523
02:29:17,227 --> 02:29:19,296
Non-combustible zone 5' with ground

2524
02:29:19,296 --> 02:29:22,990
cover comprised of hard scape such as

2525
02:29:22,990 --> 02:29:24,901
concrete, brick or gravel with a depth

2526
02:29:24,901 --> 02:29:28,238
of at least 4" shall be constructed,

2527
02:29:28,238 --> 02:29:30,573
and maintained for any residential

2528
02:29:30,573 --> 02:29:33,573
structure. For pervious material, a

2529
02:29:35,779 --> 02:29:39,379
protected barrier shall be utilized with

2530
02:29:39,382 --> 02:29:41,452
previous hard scape that [PRAO-EFRTZ/]

2531
02:29:41,452 --> 02:29:43,452
organic material growth.

2532
02:29:44,388 --> 02:29:48,588
This 5' requirement is not required for

2533
02:29:49,860 --> 02:29:54,198
accessory structures. So it doesn't say it should

2534
02:29:54,198 --> 02:29:58,201
only -- any new construction built from

2535
02:29:58,201 --> 02:30:01,801
2027 on. So Council Chair's question, if

2536
02:30:03,940 --> 02:30:05,742
there's any additions, while that wall

2537
02:30:05,742 --> 02:30:09,942
would require this 5', so what does

2538
02:30:11,349 --> 02:30:12,416
present the Planning Director, whoever

2539
02:30:12,416 --> 02:30:15,850
will be at that time to implement this

2540
02:30:15,850 --> 02:30:18,888
law that you are all considering to pass

2541
02:30:18,888 --> 02:30:20,157
just across the Board?

2542
02:30:20,157 --> 02:30:21,826
I don't see language that prevents

2543
02:30:21,826 --> 02:30:24,161
that. So maybe that can be a

2544
02:30:24,161 --> 02:30:25,629
considered Amendment.

2545
02:30:25,629 --> 02:30:28,165
Let's just in a thoughtful way go

2546
02:30:28,165 --> 02:30:31,835
through it. You are talking about 5'

2547
02:30:31,835 --> 02:30:37,835
exterior wall. this is 5' and say you have a

2548
02:30:47,500 --> 02:30:50,500
neighbor that also needs 5'.

2549
02:30:50,187 --> 02:30:52,587
Sorry. Director of Water.

2550
02:30:54,992 --> 02:30:57,992
Thank you. I appreciate you.

2551
02:31:01,331 --> 02:31:04,931
10'. Do you recall any neighborhoods

2552
02:31:06,936 --> 02:31:10,536
on Kaua'i that have an exterior

2553
02:31:11,341 --> 02:31:13,543
wall that goes from basically to the door

2554
02:31:13,543 --> 02:31:15,780
to where I am?

2555
02:31:15,780 --> 02:31:18,149
Because I have seen a lot of neighborhoods like that.

2556
02:31:18,149 --> 02:31:20,617
It's pretty tight. So that would

2557
02:31:20,617 --> 02:31:22,686
require basically everything concrete

2558
02:31:22,686 --> 02:31:26,223
from wall-to-wall. And I come from a place that

2559
02:31:26,223 --> 02:31:28,892
has that. And there's maybe a little bit

2560
02:31:28,892 --> 02:31:31,428
of lawn before the sidewalk, and

2561
02:31:31,428 --> 02:31:34,765
there's maybe trees and then the road.

2562
02:31:34,765 --> 02:31:38,240
The trees become a nuisance and those

2563
02:31:38,240 --> 02:31:39,974
roots breakthrough the concrete, let's

2564
02:31:39,974 --> 02:31:42,710
get rid of the trees, because they are

2565
02:31:42,710 --> 02:31:45,312
becoming a problem for the concrete.

2566
02:31:45,312 --> 02:31:47,981
So this concrete solution is very

2567
02:31:47,981 --> 02:31:50,717
convenient, you know, for the Fire.

2568
02:31:50,717 --> 02:31:54,317
Prevention. So practically speaking it's a

2569
02:31:55,789 --> 02:31:56,857
great idea.

2570
02:31:56,857 --> 02:32:00,394
I don't believe that our Firefighters

2571
02:32:00,394 --> 02:32:03,197
are the kind of people, you know, they

2572
02:32:03,197 --> 02:32:07,735
train really hard. They are not like you and me.

2573
02:32:07,735 --> 02:32:10,272
They can persevere through the most

2574
02:32:10,272 --> 02:32:12,739
egregious circumstances. So I'm not sure why we're

2575
02:32:12,739 --> 02:32:14,408
trying to make things easy.

2576
02:32:14,408 --> 02:32:18,145
They are not the kind of men I see that

2577
02:32:18,145 --> 02:32:23,283
want things made easy for them. This is a very convenient

2578
02:32:23,283 --> 02:32:24,885
solution, let's expand it.

2579
02:32:24,885 --> 02:32:27,870
There's a lot of issues on this island

2580
02:32:27,870 --> 02:32:31,158
that could use this solution. For instance, the river.

2581
02:32:31,158 --> 02:32:33,761
Dam the river, concrete the bottom, we

2582
02:32:33,761 --> 02:32:37,970
get rid of those slippery Boulders that

2583
02:32:37,970 --> 02:32:39,366
mud between the toes and then on heavy

2584
02:32:39,366 --> 02:32:42,436
rains we no longer have Brown water

2585
02:32:42,436 --> 02:32:46,636
flowing through. The 'Ele'ele river does that

2586
02:32:48,509 --> 02:32:49,111
and it's beautiful.

2587
02:32:49,111 --> 02:32:52,113
That is a convenient issue for that.

2588
02:32:52,113 --> 02:32:53,914
Let's not stop there, with the beachs

2589
02:32:53,914 --> 02:32:56,914
and sand. What a nuisance.

2590
02:32:57,510 --> 02:32:59,986
It gets everywhere. I can't vacuum it out of my

2591
02:32:59,986 --> 02:33:03,324
car. It's really hard to dam the ocean,

2592
02:33:03,324 --> 02:33:05,992
I'm not suggesting that, but we can

2593
02:33:05,992 --> 02:33:07,928
concrete from the shore break to the

2594
02:33:07,928 --> 02:33:10,864
parking lot and get rid of that problem and

2595
02:33:10,864 --> 02:33:12,867
maybe, yeah, it's not that comfortable

2596
02:33:12,867 --> 02:33:14,802
to lay on concrete when we're trying

2597
02:33:14,802 --> 02:33:16,337
to experience the beach.

2598
02:33:16,337 --> 02:33:20,537
So let's just bring in the chasse

2599
02:33:21,609 --> 02:33:24,745
lounges and umbrellas and charge that

2600
02:33:24,745 --> 02:33:26,814
money to go to the County that can be

2601
02:33:26,814 --> 02:33:28,548
alloted to the Water Department that

2602
02:33:28,548 --> 02:33:30,951
really needs this funding. So that is

2603
02:33:30,951 --> 02:33:34,621
a solution there. Now if we have taken care of

2604
02:33:34,621 --> 02:33:35,956
that area, why stop?

2605
02:33:35,956 --> 02:33:41,956
Let's go to the forest. Those pesky trees that cause

2606
02:33:42,898 --> 02:33:45,900
those forest Fires and eliminate that

2607
02:33:45,900 --> 02:33:47,634
and concrete everything.

2608
02:33:47,634 --> 02:33:51,380
Now you don't even get a landslide

2609
02:33:51,380 --> 02:33:54,909
because you solved it with the convenient concrete method.

2610
02:33:54,909 --> 02:33:58,779
Does that sound like a good idea?

2611
02:33:58,779 --> 02:34:05,318
What could go wrong? Hmmm, I guess we would lose the

2612
02:34:05,318 --> 02:34:07,321
beauty of nature, for one.

2613
02:34:07,321 --> 02:34:09,456
Another issue, I believe Council Member

2614
02:34:09,456 --> 02:34:12,126
Cowden touchedn was the heat factor on

2615
02:34:12,126 --> 02:34:15,726
the sun just burning on concrete.

2616
02:34:16,597 --> 02:34:19,334
so making everything really, really

2617
02:34:19,334 --> 02:34:21,535
hot. But I mean, that is okay,

2618
02:34:21,535 --> 02:34:24,604
because I work for an air conditioning

2619
02:34:24,604 --> 02:34:27,400
company. >> Thank you, Anna.

2620
02:34:27,700 --> 02:34:30,343
>> All right, I know -- >> Can I ask a clarifying

2621
02:34:30,343 --> 02:34:31,145
question, please, go ahead.

2622
02:34:31,145 --> 02:34:34,800
>> Sure, that was the whole six

2623
02:34:34,800 --> 02:34:34,748
minutes. >> That was.

2624
02:34:34,748 --> 02:34:38,759
>> It was two back-to-backs. >> It was six minutes, sorry.

2625
02:34:38,759 --> 02:34:41,950
Clarifying question. >> Do you support my Amendment

2626
02:34:41,950 --> 02:34:44,566
to provide an alternative to the

2627
02:34:44,566 --> 02:34:46,901
5' scape. It sounds like you do, but I

2628
02:34:46,901 --> 02:34:47,501
want to hear.

2629
02:34:47,501 --> 02:34:50,237
>> I support the Council rethinking

2630
02:34:50,237 --> 02:34:52,840
the strategy on this. So if we're really looking at

2631
02:34:52,840 --> 02:34:55,376
trying to make things better for our

2632
02:34:55,376 --> 02:34:57,245
Firefighters, let's provide what the

2633
02:34:57,245 --> 02:34:59,514
Firefighters need to fight fires like

2634
02:34:59,514 --> 02:35:00,982
ensureing there's water in the Fire

2635
02:35:00,982 --> 02:35:02,451
hydrants. >> I agree.

2636
02:35:02,451 --> 02:35:07,121
>> And funding infrastructure. Because the County has this

2637
02:35:07,121 --> 02:35:09,256
uncanny ability to create way more

2638
02:35:09,256 --> 02:35:11,325
problems from the solutions to a

2639
02:35:11,325 --> 02:35:14,925
problem. So thinking ahead, what impact

2640
02:35:15,529 --> 02:35:17,132
could this have on everybody on

2641
02:35:17,132 --> 02:35:19,334
Kaua'i? Because there's not just one

2642
02:35:19,334 --> 02:35:21,669
new neighborhood that is more

2643
02:35:21,669 --> 02:35:24,671
valuable in lives than anybody else on this

2644
02:35:24,671 --> 02:35:26,940
island. >> Did you watch last week's

2645
02:35:26,940 --> 02:35:28,142
meeting? >> I just read the Bill.

2646
02:35:28,142 --> 02:35:32,342
>> I think you just watch the meeting

2647
02:35:32,679 --> 02:35:36,170
with the presentation? >> I will believe my eyes on

2648
02:35:36,170 --> 02:35:37,952
what this Bill is, because a lot of

2649
02:35:37,952 --> 02:35:39,754
people can say and interpret things, but

2650
02:35:39,754 --> 02:35:41,623
it's not what I see written. So I would

2651
02:35:41,623 --> 02:35:44,358
like to ask the Council to really be

2652
02:35:44,358 --> 02:35:45,760
thoughtful on what they are implementing

2653
02:35:45,760 --> 02:35:49,960
is a law and dictateing people yards

2654
02:35:50,364 --> 02:35:52,433
because yardens are a thing. We all

2655
02:35:52,433 --> 02:35:55,235
like to grow and we don't want to be

2656
02:35:55,235 --> 02:35:59,106
told we need 5' of a certain amount.

2657
02:35:59,106 --> 02:36:01,176
So in that instance I do agree with

2658
02:36:01,176 --> 02:36:03,244
you. If you don't pass this Bill

2659
02:36:03,244 --> 02:36:06,460
that doesn't mean that Humane

2660
02:36:06,460 --> 02:36:09,784
Society can't -- sorry, Habitat for Humanity

2661
02:36:09,784 --> 02:36:12,920
can't create with these parameters or

2662
02:36:12,920 --> 02:36:16,524
have developers come in that want to

2663
02:36:16,524 --> 02:36:17,658
create with these parameters.

2664
02:36:17,658 --> 02:36:19,861
Why this law to dictate forever that

2665
02:36:19,861 --> 02:36:23,332
this is how buildings, when developers

2666
02:36:23,332 --> 02:36:26,600
can actually do that themselves, and

2667
02:36:26,600 --> 02:36:28,402
promote that themselves, and then maybe

2668
02:36:28,402 --> 02:36:30,471
even have that be an inspiration for

2669
02:36:30,471 --> 02:36:33,141
others [SKPWHR*-PLTS/] thank you, Anna.

2670
02:36:33,141 --> 02:36:35,943
>> Thank you. >> There is one last thing

2671
02:36:35,943 --> 02:36:38,412
though. This is about Lahaina.

2672
02:36:38,412 --> 02:36:41,482
What happened in Lahaina -- >> Sorry, to be fair to

2673
02:36:41,482 --> 02:36:42,617
everyone. >> I want to say --

2674
02:36:42,617 --> 02:36:45,353
>> Can you email that to us in Council

2675
02:36:45,353 --> 02:36:46,954
testimony? >> This is my last sentence

2676
02:36:46,954 --> 02:36:49,900
and I will be out of here.

2677
02:36:49,900 --> 02:36:52,493
>> Sorry, go ahead. One last sentence.

2678
02:36:52,493 --> 02:36:54,893
>> Vengeance belongs to [TKPWO-DZ/],

2679
02:36:55,763 --> 02:36:59,363
[TKPWO-DZ/], God, but in John Chapter

2680
02:37:00,167 --> 02:37:04,505
13, I can bring his name and plead the

2681
02:37:04,505 --> 02:37:10,245
blood of Jesus over Kaua'i and Ni'ihau, and anything not of

2682
02:37:10,245 --> 02:37:14,382
God's well to be vanquished in Jesus's

2683
02:37:14,382 --> 02:37:14,916
mighty name, Amen.

2684
02:37:14,916 --> 02:37:19,116
>> Thank you. Any testimony on this current

2685
02:37:20,855 --> 02:37:23,255
Amendment? Come on up.

2686
02:37:28,462 --> 02:37:30,532
Ch thank you Council for you hoing us

2687
02:37:30,532 --> 02:37:35,332
to speak. The 5' -- state your name.

2688
02:37:37,810 --> 02:37:39,481
>> Sandra O'SHAUGHNESSY and the

2689
02:37:44,889 --> 02:37:47,291
argument to be concrete, gravel, all of

2690
02:37:47,291 --> 02:37:51,429
those things obviously all need to be

2691
02:37:51,429 --> 02:37:54,698
considered. In Kapahi, very close to

2692
02:37:54,698 --> 02:37:58,298
people's houses is wild Guinea grass

2693
02:37:58,769 --> 02:38:00,505
growing everywhere, which are a massive

2694
02:38:00,505 --> 02:38:01,572
Fire hazard.

2695
02:38:01,572 --> 02:38:04,442
It's a problem all over Kaua'i, a lot

2696
02:38:04,442 --> 02:38:08,420
of these wildfires start and blow

2697
02:38:08,713 --> 02:38:11,713
through the fields where non-native

2698
02:38:14,118 --> 02:38:15,720
grass, Albizia trees, et cetera. I feel

2699
02:38:15,720 --> 02:38:18,923
we're not really looking at the mitigation problem with those

2700
02:38:18,923 --> 02:38:21,126
things that a lot of these fires start

2701
02:38:21,126 --> 02:38:24,620
from. So I'm wondering and I know

2702
02:38:24,620 --> 02:38:26,530
it's not the Bill itself, but if we're

2703
02:38:26,530 --> 02:38:29,734
looking at Fire mitigation, we should

2704
02:38:29,734 --> 02:38:32,469
definitely be considering how we're

2705
02:38:32,469 --> 02:38:35,406
going to address these wild grasses and

2706
02:38:35,406 --> 02:38:37,208
trees. >> Thank you.

2707
02:38:37,208 --> 02:38:39,143
>> Any additional testimony for this

2708
02:38:39,143 --> 02:38:43,343
Amendment? This is the same Bill, same

2709
02:38:49,860 --> 02:38:51,860
Amendment. Thank you.

2710
02:38:51,489 --> 02:38:54,489
>> Thank you. >> Any additional testimony

2711
02:38:55,959 --> 02:38:58,162
for the current Amendment?

2712
02:38:58,162 --> 02:38:59,964
Seeing none, I will call this meeting

2713
02:38:59,964 --> 02:39:02,634
back to order. Any additional discussion on

2714
02:39:02,634 --> 02:39:04,634
the Amendment?

2715
02:39:05,903 --> 02:39:08,239
Council Member Cowden. >> I will just say thank you,

2716
02:39:08,239 --> 02:39:11,839
Council Member Holland for looking at

2717
02:39:12,443 --> 02:39:13,311
Australia policy.

2718
02:39:13,311 --> 02:39:17,849
And if people have the costs, they can

2719
02:39:17,849 --> 02:39:20,849
afford to have non-combustible house,

2720
02:39:21,385 --> 02:39:25,550
it seems like they shouldn't be penalizeed for that hard scape

2721
02:39:25,550 --> 02:39:25,990
around the edge.

2722
02:39:25,990 --> 02:39:29,260
So I appreciate the creativity, and

2723
02:39:29,260 --> 02:39:30,661
effort of looking at it. >> Thank you.

2724
02:39:30,661 --> 02:39:33,598
>> Council Member Kaneshiro. >> Quick question to note the

2725
02:39:33,598 --> 02:39:36,267
Amendment does change the Ordinance

2726
02:39:36,267 --> 02:39:39,136
date to take effect on October 1st,

2727
02:39:39,136 --> 02:39:41,405
versus July 1st. >> It's just pushing out a

2728
02:39:41,405 --> 02:39:45,605
little bit to address those already under

2729
02:39:45,876 --> 02:39:49,476
construction, I forgot to mention that.

2730
02:39:52,283 --> 02:39:54,850
>> Let's just do it for the whole

2731
02:39:54,850 --> 02:39:57,220
thing. I didn't hear your reason that

2732
02:39:57,220 --> 02:40:00,900
much. What is already -- there is

2733
02:40:00,900 --> 02:40:02,426
already projects being designed?

2734
02:40:02,426 --> 02:40:03,894
>> My understanding and just correct

2735
02:40:03,894 --> 02:40:06,764
me, Director, if I'm wrong to allow for

2736
02:40:06,764 --> 02:40:08,433
the extra time for the concern brought

2737
02:40:08,433 --> 02:40:11,350
up about houses already in the works?

2738
02:40:11,350 --> 02:40:13,904
>> Any permit that is already in would

2739
02:40:13,904 --> 02:40:17,774
not have the standards applied to them.

2740
02:40:17,774 --> 02:40:21,450
You do have some that maybe in the

2741
02:40:21,450 --> 02:40:24,645
process of getting draftsmen work done,

2742
02:40:25,115 --> 02:40:26,650
and so midway through the process, but

2743
02:40:26,650 --> 02:40:30,321
don't have their permits yet. So it allows that kind of

2744
02:40:30,321 --> 02:40:31,522
buffer essentially, if you will.

2745
02:40:31,522 --> 02:40:34,324
>> Just adding a little bit of extra

2746
02:40:34,324 --> 02:40:37,407
time, so people caught out in the start

2747
02:40:37,407 --> 02:40:42,546
of it -- have a little bit more prepared time.

2748
02:40:42,546 --> 02:40:45,749
>> So where does it say that? >> The date change on the

2749
02:40:45,749 --> 02:40:49,349
bottom, October 1st, from July 1st.

2750
02:40:50,200 --> 02:40:52,880
>> Okay. >> Any additional questions

2751
02:40:52,880 --> 02:40:53,223
for Admin, while the rules are

2752
02:40:53,223 --> 02:40:56,223
suspended? >> So you supported this?

2753
02:40:56,293 --> 02:40:58,562
This was your idea? >> We support it.

2754
02:40:58,562 --> 02:41:00,497
>> It was part of our discussion and

2755
02:41:00,497 --> 02:41:02,432
he had brought up if I supported also

2756
02:41:02,432 --> 02:41:06,360
pushing the date out to address that

2757
02:41:06,360 --> 02:41:07,505
concern at same time and I said yes.

2758
02:41:07,505 --> 02:41:09,306
>> Okay. >> Any additional questions

2759
02:41:09,306 --> 02:41:14,106
for Admin? Call the meeting back to order.

2760
02:41:15,912 --> 02:41:19,512
Any oath other discussion on the

2761
02:41:23,186 --> 02:41:26,786
Amendment. >> Yes, it gives leeway and

2762
02:41:27,124 --> 02:41:29,593
don't want the concrete or hardened area,

2763
02:41:29,593 --> 02:41:31,728
if it's going to cost a little more,

2764
02:41:31,728 --> 02:41:33,531
they can purchase that type of sideing

2765
02:41:33,531 --> 02:41:36,132
that is more fire-resistant and that is

2766
02:41:36,132 --> 02:41:37,670
their own decision what they do.

2767
02:41:37,670 --> 02:41:39,803
As far as the date, I'm in agreement,

2768
02:41:39,803 --> 02:41:41,405
too. We have been working on this,

2769
02:41:41,405 --> 02:41:44,608
and it's been in Planning from like

2770
02:41:44,608 --> 02:41:45,608
prior to July.

2771
02:41:45,608 --> 02:41:47,343
So I think at the time they were

2772
02:41:47,343 --> 02:41:49,146
thinking a year out and we're already

2773
02:41:49,146 --> 02:41:51,148
in October. So it makes sense to push

2774
02:41:51,148 --> 02:41:55,348
it out a year. >> We're in September.

2775
02:41:56,860 --> 02:41:58,956
>> Oh, see, we're in September already.

2776
02:41:58,956 --> 02:42:01,224
September/October. October is around the corner

2777
02:42:01,224 --> 02:42:05,424
anyway. It gives people a little more

2778
02:42:07,698 --> 02:42:08,899
time to adjust.

2779
02:42:08,899 --> 02:42:10,330
>> Any additional discussion on the

2780
02:42:10,330 --> 02:42:11,101
Amendment? Council Member Holland.

2781
02:42:11,101 --> 02:42:13,437
>> Just want to thank you for entertaining it.

2782
02:42:13,437 --> 02:42:16,390
I know I'm not on the Committee, but I

2783
02:42:16,390 --> 02:42:18,242
did look into some of this stuff

2784
02:42:18,242 --> 02:42:23,420
initially looking at irrigated landscape and there is

2785
02:42:26,500 --> 02:42:27,510
additional discussion in my next

2786
02:42:27,510 --> 02:42:28,920
Amendment. I just appreciate you

2787
02:42:28,920 --> 02:42:33,120
considering this. >> Any additional -- with that

2788
02:42:33,790 --> 02:42:36,726
roll-call vote on the Amendment. >> On the second Amendment?

2789
02:42:36,726 --> 02:42:38,595
>> Yes. >> Council Member Carvalho?

2790
02:42:38,595 --> 02:42:39,998
>> Aye. >> Council Member Cowden?

2791
02:42:39,998 --> 02:42:41,664
>> Aye. >> Council Member Kaneshiro?

2792
02:42:41,664 --> 02:42:43,660
>> Aye. >> Council Member Kuali'i?

2793
02:42:43,660 --> 02:42:45,466
>> Aye. >> Committee Chair Bulosan ?

2794
02:42:45,802 --> 02:42:47,204
>> Aye. >> Motion passes.

2795
02:42:47,204 --> 02:42:49,406
>> Thank you. >> Council Member Cowden,

2796
02:42:49,406 --> 02:42:52,743
again, she is not on the Committee.

2797
02:42:52,743 --> 02:42:57,543
Sorry, Council Member Holland. Council Member Holland again

2798
02:42:57,748 --> 02:42:59,883
she is not on the Committee.

2799
02:42:59,883 --> 02:43:03,220
But she does have an Amendment that I

2800
02:43:03,220 --> 02:43:06,820
will be circulateing for her, regarding

2801
02:43:07,900 --> 02:43:08,292
the periodic review. >> Second.

2802
02:43:08,292 --> 02:43:11,428
>> Thank you. This measure is really needed

2803
02:43:11,428 --> 02:43:12,964
as you said related to the periodic

2804
02:43:12,964 --> 02:43:15,966
review. Again, looking at the irrigated

2805
02:43:15,966 --> 02:43:18,635
landscape and potential for waterlogged

2806
02:43:18,635 --> 02:43:21,304
plants to be included in the 5'

2807
02:43:21,304 --> 02:43:23,373
buffer. The problem is and Director

2808
02:43:23,373 --> 02:43:26,910
please correct me if I misstate any of

2809
02:43:26,910 --> 02:43:30,510
this, but my understanding after the

2810
02:43:33,584 --> 02:43:36,669
scientists reviewed my asks, on the

2811
02:43:36,669 --> 02:43:40,269
previous Amendment that we voted on

2812
02:43:41,207 --> 02:43:43,607
they couldn't scientifically support

2813
02:43:46,412 --> 02:43:48,681
waterlogged vegetation and this amendment requires those are

2814
02:43:48,681 --> 02:43:50,617
considered in the periodic review and that

2815
02:43:50,617 --> 02:43:52,218
studys are done it allow for that to

2816
02:43:52,218 --> 02:43:54,420
be an option in the future.

2817
02:43:54,420 --> 02:43:56,155
Because the studies weren't done and

2818
02:43:56,155 --> 02:43:57,357
the scientists weren't confident in

2819
02:43:57,357 --> 02:43:58,891
making that assessment and allowing

2820
02:43:58,891 --> 02:44:01,361
that Amendment go forward. So in this case, they would

2821
02:44:01,361 --> 02:44:03,363
have the opportunity to complete the

2822
02:44:03,363 --> 02:44:06,499
studies, and prove without a doubt if

2823
02:44:06,499 --> 02:44:09,836
plants like say aloe Vera or the water

2824
02:44:09,836 --> 02:44:12,439
heavy plants might be exemptions that

2825
02:44:12,439 --> 02:44:13,640
allow 5' surrounding of the home?

2826
02:44:13,640 --> 02:44:16,575
So that is what this Amendment is.

2827
02:44:16,575 --> 02:44:21,375
>> Any discussion? >> I have a little bit of

2828
02:44:22,115 --> 02:44:25,185
discussion. And just for the public, we

2829
02:44:25,185 --> 02:44:29,985
don't get to hear before edge, -- I

2830
02:44:30,390 --> 02:44:32,392
would have added to this?

2831
02:44:32,392 --> 02:44:37,792
>> Go ahead, discussion. Tch I appreciate that can go

2832
02:44:41,670 --> 02:44:43,300
into review the and I think whether

2833
02:44:43,300 --> 02:44:45,338
we do another thing or do a

2834
02:44:45,338 --> 02:44:48,938
[TKPR-EPBD/]ly Amendment, I think soil

2835
02:44:58,685 --> 02:45:00,886
analyses and percolation should be on the

2836
02:45:00,886 --> 02:45:04,230
review. That falls to what Anna said.

2837
02:45:04,230 --> 02:45:06,559
When we look at the Fire impact on

2838
02:45:06,559 --> 02:45:08,761
plants with an 80 miles an hour wind

2839
02:45:08,761 --> 02:45:12,961
with hot, hot, hot, fires that is

2840
02:45:12,965 --> 02:45:16,635
really the anomaly. So when we have -- what we

2841
02:45:16,635 --> 02:45:20,835
learned at NACo, in our fieldtrips this,

2842
02:45:21,508 --> 02:45:25,378
after you have a Fire, you have all of

2843
02:45:25,378 --> 02:45:26,645
this flooding potential and flooding

2844
02:45:26,645 --> 02:45:29,715
is more common than Fire here. So when

2845
02:45:29,715 --> 02:45:31,450
we're looking at extra concrete,

2846
02:45:31,450 --> 02:45:35,500
especially in a narrow neighborhood as

2847
02:45:39,926 --> 02:45:44,126
Anna said, with 10' hardened out of

2848
02:45:44,130 --> 02:45:48,200
20, and what we scorch the soil in the

2849
02:45:48,200 --> 02:45:51,737
ways that this Bill asks to do in a

2850
02:45:51,737 --> 02:45:54,473
lot of places you don't have the

2851
02:45:54,473 --> 02:45:58,730
percolation rates and will have severe

2852
02:45:58,770 --> 02:46:00,880
flooding and percolation increases when you

2853
02:46:00,880 --> 02:46:02,481
have natural plant scapes when the

2854
02:46:02,481 --> 02:46:06,151
plants can liver the live the way

2855
02:46:06,151 --> 02:46:09,151
they are meant to live.

2856
02:46:13,226 --> 02:46:16,280
[*-PLTS/] I'm not clear. >> Percolation I believe

2857
02:46:16,280 --> 02:46:18,898
should be in the wildfire resilient

2858
02:46:18,898 --> 02:46:21,701
landscaping because when we have

2859
02:46:21,701 --> 02:46:23,302
hard-packed ground, which is what happens

2860
02:46:23,302 --> 02:46:26,706
when you have the sun shining always on

2861
02:46:26,706 --> 02:46:29,374
the ground, you don't have good

2862
02:46:29,374 --> 02:46:31,374
percolation rate.

2863
02:46:31,978 --> 02:46:33,713
Percolation rate happens when you have

2864
02:46:33,713 --> 02:46:37,913
active landscaping. I know that is true.

2865
02:46:38,470 --> 02:46:40,339
>> Any additional -- I do have to go

2866
02:46:40,339 --> 02:46:43,742
to public testimony. So I don't know if you want to

2867
02:46:43,742 --> 02:46:44,410
keep with discussion?

2868
02:46:44,410 --> 02:46:46,211
>> I was just wondering what the

2869
02:46:46,211 --> 02:46:50,282
Director thought about that? >> I will suspend the rules.

2870
02:46:50,282 --> 02:46:53,282
Director. >> Just because the Bill

2871
02:46:53,618 --> 02:46:55,870
doesn't require concrete, it can use

2872
02:46:55,870 --> 02:46:57,220
hard scape as well.

2873
02:46:57,220 --> 02:47:01,160
If a homeowner opted to use concrete in

2874
02:47:01,160 --> 02:47:03,161
their 5' non-combustible zone would not

2875
02:47:03,161 --> 02:47:05,631
be allowed go beyond the existing

2876
02:47:05,631 --> 02:47:07,232
threshold of 60% for residential lot.

2877
02:47:07,232 --> 02:47:09,968
So it does not allow for extra concrete

2878
02:47:09,968 --> 02:47:13,568
beyond what the code currently requires.

2879
02:47:15,390 --> 02:47:16,842
So the percolation rate should stay the

2880
02:47:16,842 --> 02:47:19,242
same. But understand --

2881
02:47:19,378 --> 02:47:21,780
>> Percolation rate doesn't stay the

2882
02:47:21,780 --> 02:47:24,716
same without plants. >> I just want to clarify

2883
02:47:24,716 --> 02:47:27,116
extra concrete beyond the 60%

2884
02:47:31,323 --> 02:47:33,459
doesn't change and to clarify the concrete

2885
02:47:33,459 --> 02:47:34,860
doesn't change.

2886
02:47:34,860 --> 02:47:37,860
For the overall proposal, Council

2887
02:47:38,797 --> 02:47:40,532
Member Holland approached us and the

2888
02:47:40,532 --> 02:47:43,202
team to say what about using certain

2889
02:47:43,202 --> 02:47:46,738
types of landscaping there? And the team did go back and

2890
02:47:46,738 --> 02:47:50,338
look through when looking at how

2891
02:47:52,945 --> 02:47:55,613
wildfire science can provide guidance

2892
02:47:55,613 --> 02:47:57,282
for regulatory regimes, either the

2893
02:47:57,282 --> 02:48:01,420
science group is going to look at

2894
02:48:01,420 --> 02:48:02,487
forensic analysis of a wildfire event

2895
02:48:02,487 --> 02:48:03,955
that happened or use laboratory

2896
02:48:03,955 --> 02:48:06,224
tests in which they are recreating a

2897
02:48:06,224 --> 02:48:07,959
wildfire event on the built environment

2898
02:48:07,959 --> 02:48:10,950
and both of those scenarios and the data

2899
02:48:10,950 --> 02:48:11,830
that they have, they didn't have

2900
02:48:11,830 --> 02:48:13,966
anything that they could indicate that

2901
02:48:13,966 --> 02:48:16,568
landscaping would be an adequate

2902
02:48:16,568 --> 02:48:18,904
mitigation measure for the hard scape,

2903
02:48:18,904 --> 02:48:21,974
having said that, you know, with the

2904
02:48:21,974 --> 02:48:24,376
draft proposal, we would be going back

2905
02:48:24,376 --> 02:48:26,978
to underwriters laboratory, as well as

2906
02:48:26,978 --> 02:48:28,914
Hawai'i wildfires to say looking at

2907
02:48:28,914 --> 02:48:31,914
certain documents and studies produced

2908
02:48:32,784 --> 02:48:35,454
by wildfire landscapes is in interface

2909
02:48:35,454 --> 02:48:39,991
between those and the 5' non-combustible zone and

2910
02:48:39,991 --> 02:48:44,791
candidly I had that discussion with the Kaua'i

2911
02:48:44,996 --> 02:48:46,996
wildfire management yesterday. >>

2912
02:48:48,000 --> 02:48:49,736
while the rules are suspended we'll do

2913
02:48:49,736 --> 02:48:51,471
testimony. >> I have one more question.

2914
02:48:51,471 --> 02:48:53,400
>> Okay. Go ahead.

2915
02:48:53,400 --> 02:48:54,740
>> So this would be a question can be

2916
02:48:54,740 --> 02:48:58,940
>> On the Amendment? >> For both Fire and

2917
02:49:04,883 --> 02:49:08,286
Planning. What we saw in Lahaina is

2918
02:49:08,286 --> 02:49:11,156
after the Fire everything was really

2919
02:49:11,156 --> 02:49:15,930
toxic; right? Really toxic. Probably when you have a Hick's

2920
02:49:15,930 --> 02:49:17,896
home that is just wood, it won't be

2921
02:49:17,896 --> 02:49:18,563
so toxic.

2922
02:49:18,563 --> 02:49:22,763
All of these hardened, kind of newcombo

2923
02:49:27,107 --> 02:49:28,907
products create that toxicity, is that

2924
02:49:28,907 --> 02:49:30,776
correct? >> That is absolutely correct.

2925
02:49:30,776 --> 02:49:33,512
It's what we're putting inside the

2926
02:49:33,512 --> 02:49:34,914
Houses, couches, mattresses and what is

2927
02:49:34,914 --> 02:49:38,514
outside of the houses, tires, cars,

2928
02:49:38,651 --> 02:49:41,530
batteries, all those things. >> And even the hardened

2929
02:49:41,530 --> 02:49:42,455
walls wouldn't be for concrete.

2930
02:49:42,455 --> 02:49:47,860
We just have to -- we just have to look

2931
02:49:47,860 --> 02:49:50,530
at how all these things balance. >> Any additional questions

2932
02:49:50,530 --> 02:49:52,264
for Admin for the Amendment currently?

2933
02:49:52,264 --> 02:49:55,601
No. Seeing none, we'll do public

2934
02:49:55,601 --> 02:49:59,201
testimony on the Amendment as proposed.

2935
02:49:59,272 --> 02:50:00,407
Anyone wishing to testify on the

2936
02:50:00,407 --> 02:50:04,700
Amendment? Seeing none, Weigel call the

2937
02:50:07,480 --> 02:50:08,481
meeting back to [O-RDZ/].

2938
02:50:08,481 --> 02:50:09,749
Any final discussion on the Amendment?

2939
02:50:09,749 --> 02:50:11,951
>> I have a final comment. >> Go ahead?

2940
02:50:11,951 --> 02:50:13,220
>> INSTRUCTOR: Will be supporting this

2941
02:50:13,220 --> 02:50:17,420
Amendment. I think it's valuable to review

2942
02:50:20,226 --> 02:50:22,228
as manys as we can review and

2943
02:50:22,228 --> 02:50:24,764
especially when I brought up how much do

2944
02:50:24,764 --> 02:50:26,633
most our reviews or reports happen?

2945
02:50:26,633 --> 02:50:31,433
I would hope in the first five years

2946
02:50:31,438 --> 02:50:35,638
that after these places are built, it

2947
02:50:36,509 --> 02:50:38,310
can be looking at what is out there in

2948
02:50:38,310 --> 02:50:40,113
the nation, it had really matter that

2949
02:50:40,113 --> 02:50:42,181
we look and check that what we have

2950
02:50:42,181 --> 02:50:46,981
done is right. So certainly I support more

2951
02:50:49,722 --> 02:50:51,791
flexibility and breadth in the review.

2952
02:50:51,791 --> 02:50:54,795
>> Any other discussion? Council Member Kaneshiro?

2953
02:50:54,795 --> 02:50:56,662
>> I'm supportive of the Amendment.

2954
02:50:56,662 --> 02:51:00,650
And I know heard concerns how often

2955
02:51:00,650 --> 02:51:02,802
the reviews are. I'm a little more, I guess,

2956
02:51:02,802 --> 02:51:04,470
positive on the reviews, because I know

2957
02:51:04,470 --> 02:51:07,407
that the County already meets yearly for

2958
02:51:07,407 --> 02:51:10,676
wildfires. And so like it's not as big as

2959
02:51:10,676 --> 02:51:13,545
say a GP type of meeting, and result.

2960
02:51:13,545 --> 02:51:17,216
But I do know that yearly Fire is

2961
02:51:17,216 --> 02:51:21,220
meeting with the community, and everybody, and so I see those

2962
02:51:21,220 --> 02:51:23,890
meetings continuing, and then these

2963
02:51:23,890 --> 02:51:24,558
types of things being incorporated into

2964
02:51:24,558 --> 02:51:28,270
it. So I definitely think yeah,

2965
02:51:28,270 --> 02:51:29,161
more information is better.

2966
02:51:29,161 --> 02:51:31,290
You know, if we're looking at other

2967
02:51:31,290 --> 02:51:33,766
ways to protect the House and also look

2968
02:51:33,766 --> 02:51:34,835
at what types of landscape may be

2969
02:51:34,835 --> 02:51:36,369
available at the same time? So I'm in

2970
02:51:36,369 --> 02:51:40,306
favor of this Amendment. >> Any additional discussion?

2971
02:51:40,306 --> 02:51:43,242
Final discussion for the Amendment?

2972
02:51:43,242 --> 02:51:45,177
Seeing none, roll-call vote for the

2973
02:51:45,177 --> 02:51:46,846
Amendment. >> Council Member Carvalho?

2974
02:51:46,846 --> 02:51:48,447
>> Aye. >> Council Member Cowden?

2975
02:51:48,447 --> 02:51:50,116
>> Aye. >> Council Member Kaneshiro?

2976
02:51:50,116 --> 02:51:51,784
>> Aye. >> Council Member Kuali'i?

2977
02:51:51,784 --> 02:51:53,652
>> Aye. >> Committee Chair Bulosan?

2978
02:51:53,652 --> 02:51:55,652
>> Aye. >> Meigs passes.

2979
02:51:56,255 --> 02:51:58,257
motion passes. >> Any other Amendments for

2980
02:51:58,257 --> 02:52:02,457
this Bill now it's amended three times.

2981
02:52:08,667 --> 02:52:10,736
One more Amendment. Okay.

2982
02:52:10,736 --> 02:52:16,736
>> I'm not on the Committee. >> I move to amend as

2983
02:52:17,210 --> 02:52:19,413
circulated on behalf of Chair Rapozo, who is

2984
02:52:19,413 --> 02:52:21,813
not on the Committee.

2985
02:52:21,814 --> 02:52:24,814
>> Thank you, Mr. Kuali'i. >> Second.

2986
02:52:25,685 --> 02:52:29,354
>> Moved and seconded mine is housekeeping pertaining

2987
02:52:29,354 --> 02:52:31,891
to the Section on gutters and just

2988
02:52:31,891 --> 02:52:33,359
adding if installed, just to make it

2989
02:52:33,359 --> 02:52:37,559
clear, it's an optional component and not

2990
02:52:38,769 --> 02:52:41,169
mandatory. >> Any other discussion?

2991
02:52:43,506 --> 02:52:47,106
With the rules suspended - suspending

2992
02:52:47,177 --> 02:52:48,445
the rules anyone wishing to testify on

2993
02:52:48,445 --> 02:52:53,245
the Amendment? It is adding the "if installed

2994
02:52:53,917 --> 02:52:56,854
gutters." In the previous discussion.

2995
02:52:56,854 --> 02:52:58,721
Seeing no testimony call the meeting

2996
02:52:58,721 --> 02:53:01,125
back to order. Any further discussion?

2997
02:53:01,125 --> 02:53:04,725
Seeing none roll-call vote on the

2998
02:53:05,396 --> 02:53:06,596
fourth amendment. >> Council Member Carvalho?

2999
02:53:06,596 --> 02:53:07,530
>> Aye. >> Council Member Cowden?

3000
02:53:07,530 --> 02:53:08,932
>> Aye. >> Council Member Kaneshiro?

3001
02:53:08,932 --> 02:53:10,135
>> Aye. >> Council Member Kuali'i?

3002
02:53:10,135 --> 02:53:12,202
>> Aye. >> Committee Chair Bulosan?

3003
02:53:12,202 --> 02:53:14,202
>> Aye. >> Motion passes.

3004
02:53:15,539 --> 02:53:21,780
>> With that, we're still in discussion, and I wanted to

3005
02:53:21,780 --> 02:53:23,480
give the public, if there's any more

3006
02:53:23,480 --> 02:53:25,282
Amendments, I will just double-check.

3007
02:53:25,282 --> 02:53:27,150
Seeing no more Amendments, I did want

3008
02:53:27,150 --> 02:53:29,486
to give the public one opportunity, one

3009
02:53:29,486 --> 02:53:32,220
last opportunity for public testimony

3010
02:53:32,220 --> 02:53:36,222
of the entire Bill as amended four

3011
02:53:36,294 --> 02:53:38,896
times. Anyone wishing to testify on

3012
02:53:38,896 --> 02:53:41,896
the entire Bill as amended?

3013
02:53:46,103 --> 02:53:48,840
Seeing none, >> I have another question for

3014
02:53:48,840 --> 02:53:52,440
Ka'aina. >> So we'll suspend the rules.

3015
02:53:52,909 --> 02:53:54,909
Director Hull. C

3016
02:54:20,604 --> 02:54:22,739
>> I did read this and it's a long

3017
02:54:22,739 --> 02:54:27,545
Bill and has a lot of details. So I had a few things I just

3018
02:54:27,545 --> 02:54:29,545
confused about.

3019
02:54:29,747 --> 02:54:31,140
Probably simple answers, but it would

3020
02:54:31,140 --> 02:54:35,214
help me. On page 12, Section 5, in the

3021
02:54:36,860 --> 02:54:40,886
middle of the page, what was removed was

3022
02:54:47,898 --> 02:54:48,765
dwelling single-family attached.

3023
02:54:48,765 --> 02:54:51,340
These are definitions and I wonder why

3024
02:54:51,340 --> 02:54:52,169
we deleteed that definition, because I

3025
02:54:52,169 --> 02:54:56,106
didn't see it replaced? >> The single family attached

3026
02:54:56,106 --> 02:54:59,376
is a structural element where it's

3027
02:54:59,376 --> 02:55:02,976
just literally you will find some

3028
02:55:03,847 --> 02:55:05,783
proposals avoiding setbacks currently,

3029
02:55:05,783 --> 02:55:09,252
the 10' building setback by literally

3030
02:55:09,252 --> 02:55:10,854
putting a non-structural element attached

3031
02:55:10,854 --> 02:55:16,254
to it, a couple 2x4s and then it's

3032
02:55:20,196 --> 02:55:22,667
separateed by 3-4 feet, which is a clear

3033
02:55:22,667 --> 02:55:25,667
hazard. >> Someone put a lean-to

3034
02:55:28,405 --> 02:55:29,139
against the wall.

3035
02:55:29,139 --> 02:55:31,475
>> That is where it's structurally

3036
02:55:31,475 --> 02:55:36,213
dependent, that is fine. It's where it's structurally

3037
02:55:36,213 --> 02:55:39,900
independent. >> So you have 3" in between.

3038
02:55:39,900 --> 02:55:40,826
So we took that out. So that means we

3039
02:55:40,826 --> 02:55:42,760
don't have that in here? >> No.

3040
02:55:42,760 --> 02:55:45,697
>> So when we saw where you can build

3041
02:55:45,697 --> 02:55:48,320
on the zero lot line between different

3042
02:55:48,320 --> 02:55:51,168
parcels and we had that in our presentation, I would assume

3043
02:55:51,168 --> 02:55:53,304
that is the developer builds is that

3044
02:55:53,304 --> 02:55:55,173
way. >> Those are structurally

3045
02:55:55,173 --> 02:55:56,907
dependent. >> Those are structurally

3046
02:55:56,907 --> 02:56:01,107
dependent and those are duplexs that are

3047
02:56:04,480 --> 02:56:07,648
straddlely a line. >> Or carport scenario.

3048
02:56:07,651 --> 02:56:11,122
>> We saw two weeks ago we saw design

3049
02:56:11,122 --> 02:56:14,722
drawings of this. >> Duplexes straddling the

3050
02:56:15,580 --> 02:56:18,329
line, but carports straddling the line

3051
02:56:18,329 --> 02:56:20,530
where the dwellings weren't actually

3052
02:56:20,530 --> 02:56:23,530
adjacent. So single-family paradigm with

3053
02:56:23,801 --> 02:56:24,401
the connected carport.

3054
02:56:24,401 --> 02:56:26,404
>> Right. So potential for crumbleing,

3055
02:56:26,404 --> 02:56:29,273
but if the developer decides to do that, I

3056
02:56:29,273 --> 02:56:30,341
would presume a developer would be

3057
02:56:30,341 --> 02:56:31,275
the one to do that.

3058
02:56:31,275 --> 02:56:34,812
You are not usually going to see two

3059
02:56:34,812 --> 02:56:39,120
people buy separate lots and go okay

3060
02:56:39,216 --> 02:56:42,216
neighbor. >> We would not anticipate

3061
02:56:42,686 --> 02:56:43,870
that happening.

3062
02:56:43,870 --> 02:56:44,688
>> So you can't have something that

3063
02:56:44,688 --> 02:56:47,625
looks like it's attached. So we're just saying that

3064
02:56:47,625 --> 02:56:49,260
doesn't happen.

3065
02:56:49,260 --> 02:56:52,763
All right. My other very simple question

3066
02:56:52,763 --> 02:56:54,699
is I noticed that we have

3067
02:56:54,699 --> 02:56:58,899
definitions, and the same definitions in the

3068
02:57:02,840 --> 02:57:04,108
different places.

3069
02:57:04,108 --> 02:57:06,444
So I read through every one of them.

3070
02:57:06,444 --> 02:57:07,979
I didn't understand why we have them

3071
02:57:07,979 --> 02:57:10,313
there. Is because it's a distinct

3072
02:57:10,313 --> 02:57:12,313
Section? >> Correct.

3073
02:57:12,516 --> 02:57:15,530
>> And we have to have -- we don't

3074
02:57:15,530 --> 02:57:16,319
reference back to the old Section.

3075
02:57:16,319 --> 02:57:18,588
So a new Section. So we're just saying

3076
02:57:18,588 --> 02:57:21,659
we just have to repeat ourselves?

3077
02:57:21,659 --> 02:57:23,460
>> One definition being provideed in

3078
02:57:23,460 --> 02:57:25,395
Chapter 12, which is a different

3079
02:57:25,395 --> 02:57:27,265
Chapter from Kaua'i County Code from

3080
02:57:27,265 --> 02:57:29,399
Chapter 8 and both codes need the

3081
02:57:29,399 --> 02:57:31,399
definitions >> Okay.

3082
02:57:32,203 --> 02:57:33,938
Thank you any additional questions for

3083
02:57:33,938 --> 02:57:36,606
Admin? >> I have one more question.

3084
02:57:36,606 --> 02:57:39,600
>> Chair Rapozo. >> On page 21.

3085
02:57:40,544 --> 02:57:42,746
This is on maximum lot coverage.

3086
02:57:42,746 --> 02:57:45,683
So this Bill will increase the maximum

3087
02:57:45,683 --> 02:57:49,687
lot coverage for R-1 to R-6 to 60%.

3088
02:57:49,687 --> 02:57:52,424
That wasn't discussed. Is that for everyone now.

3089
02:57:52,424 --> 02:57:54,425
>> That was more of a clean-up in that

3090
02:57:54,425 --> 02:57:56,227
one Section of the code already has the

3091
02:57:56,227 --> 02:57:58,696
60% and this is just reiterateing it's

3092
02:57:58,696 --> 02:58:01,696
60%. >> So I wasn't aware, how

3093
02:58:02,232 --> 02:58:04,768
long have we been at 60%

3094
02:58:04,768 --> 02:58:07,638
around the time that the ARU was passed.

3095
02:58:07,638 --> 02:58:10,373
>> Thank you. >> Any additional questions

3096
02:58:10,373 --> 02:58:12,373
for the administration?

3097
02:58:14,445 --> 02:58:17,314
Thank you. Call this meeting back to

3098
02:58:17,314 --> 02:58:19,314
order. Final discussion?

3099
02:58:19,383 --> 02:58:22,119
Committee Members? And non-Committee Members, if

3100
02:58:22,119 --> 02:58:24,388
you want to have any final discussion as

3101
02:58:24,388 --> 02:58:25,523
well. Chair Rapozo

3102
02:58:25,523 --> 02:58:29,723
thank you. As a non-Committee Member, you

3103
02:58:29,927 --> 02:58:32,730
know, one thing I learned in all

3104
02:58:32,730 --> 02:58:35,332
these years on this Council, you learn to

3105
02:58:35,332 --> 02:58:37,000
Council real quick and I see this is

3106
02:58:37,000 --> 02:58:38,268
probably going to pass today.

3107
02:58:38,268 --> 02:58:41,850
We got the information -- I got the

3108
02:58:41,850 --> 02:58:44,850
information last night from contractors

3109
02:58:45,220 --> 02:58:48,359
and BIA, and passed it onto you today.

3110
02:58:48,359 --> 02:58:50,895
So I'm still a little uncomfortable

3111
02:58:50,895 --> 02:58:54,980
about the cost and not that I'm disputeing awhat is said, but

3112
02:58:54,980 --> 02:58:55,300
pause it's so significantly

3113
02:58:55,300 --> 02:58:57,435
different, I have to Drac down why it's different

3114
02:58:57,435 --> 02:58:59,636
and it has to be how they figure out

3115
02:58:59,636 --> 02:59:00,237
the numbers.

3116
02:59:00,237 --> 02:59:04,437
I don't think it's malicious any way,

3117
02:59:04,842 --> 02:59:06,378
but the reason why those numbers are

3118
02:59:06,378 --> 02:59:08,847
different? This is going to pass out of

3119
02:59:08,847 --> 02:59:11,449
Committee today I will spend the next few

3120
02:59:11,449 --> 02:59:12,850
days tracking that information down.

3121
02:59:12,850 --> 02:59:15,519
I think one of the testifiers today

3122
02:59:15,519 --> 02:59:18,790
talked about clarifying some of the

3123
02:59:18,790 --> 02:59:22,192
language in this Bill. That is why I'm more open to

3124
02:59:22,192 --> 02:59:23,861
taking our time, because all these

3125
02:59:23,861 --> 02:59:26,730
Amendments that dropped today, we see it for

3126
02:59:26,730 --> 02:59:27,732
the first time today.

3127
02:59:27,732 --> 02:59:29,667
We don't have the luxury, because the

3128
02:59:29,667 --> 02:59:32,136
sunshine law. We don't get to see these

3129
02:59:32,136 --> 02:59:33,300
things and explore it.

3130
02:59:33,300 --> 02:59:35,720
So we hear it today and I'm not sure

3131
02:59:35,720 --> 02:59:37,742
what the pressure is to get it passed

3132
02:59:37,742 --> 02:59:39,677
out of Committee today, I just don't,

3133
02:59:39,677 --> 02:59:41,212
because we're looking athe a Bill that

3134
02:59:41,212 --> 02:59:43,481
will take effect in October now of

3135
02:59:43,481 --> 02:59:46,481
2027. We went through this exercise

3136
02:59:46,818 --> 02:59:48,686
with residential investor with Real

3137
02:59:48,686 --> 02:59:50,688
Property Tax, and it looked very good

3138
02:59:50,688 --> 02:59:53,240
and went through it, because we wanted

3139
02:59:53,240 --> 02:59:55,426
to help so many people and find out

3140
02:59:55,426 --> 02:59:57,694
oops, we didn't see everything. So we

3141
02:59:57,694 --> 03:00:00,230
have to go back and refund money and

3142
03:00:00,230 --> 03:00:01,566
repeal the Bill.

3143
03:00:01,566 --> 03:00:03,234
This is a big Bill. A major impacts on

3144
03:00:03,234 --> 03:00:09,373
a lot of people going forward. So I just for me, myself, as it

3145
03:00:09,373 --> 03:00:12,309
comes before the full Council, I will

3146
03:00:12,309 --> 03:00:14,979
need to have all my questions answered.

3147
03:00:14,979 --> 03:00:16,914
The other thing that we don't have

3148
03:00:16,914 --> 03:00:21,114
especially when we amend bills at this

3149
03:00:21,120 --> 03:00:23,187
level, the public input, because again,

3150
03:00:23,187 --> 03:00:26,524
everybody is finding out today what the

3151
03:00:26,524 --> 03:00:28,726
new Amendments are. I don't know how many of you

3152
03:00:28,726 --> 03:00:30,928
noticed that the testimonies for this

3153
03:00:30,928 --> 03:00:33,132
Bill really just came in the last

3154
03:00:33,132 --> 03:00:33,998
few days before.

3155
03:00:33,998 --> 03:00:35,800
Because people don't know -- we don't

3156
03:00:35,800 --> 03:00:37,869
have the Garden Island newspaper in

3157
03:00:37,869 --> 03:00:39,137
here now sharing with the world what

3158
03:00:39,137 --> 03:00:41,406
we're doing. So it's word-of-mouth,

3159
03:00:41,406 --> 03:00:43,274
and then everybody gets freaked out

3160
03:00:43,274 --> 03:00:45,209
because they didn't watch the meeting

3161
03:00:45,209 --> 03:00:46,879
and don't know what the technical parts

3162
03:00:46,879 --> 03:00:49,947
of this Bill. So now they start

3163
03:00:49,947 --> 03:00:54,170
finding out with testimonies. Again, this will happen four

3164
03:00:54,170 --> 03:00:54,886
Amendments today.

3165
03:00:54,886 --> 03:00:56,954
Four Amendments. So four Amendments that is

3166
03:00:56,954 --> 03:00:59,354
going to generate input.

3167
03:00:59,624 --> 03:01:01,292
Now I always believe that we should do

3168
03:01:01,292 --> 03:01:02,760
all the work in the Committee, and not

3169
03:01:02,760 --> 03:01:06,960
at the full Council Meeting and what

3170
03:01:08,990 --> 03:01:09,700
the Committee process is to work out

3171
03:01:09,700 --> 03:01:11,170
the kinks and clarifications, because

3172
03:01:11,170 --> 03:01:14,505
the last thing we to do is pass a Bill

3173
03:01:14,505 --> 03:01:17,174
that has language that is vague, that

3174
03:01:17,174 --> 03:01:19,577
can result in false interpretations of

3175
03:01:19,577 --> 03:01:22,446
what we're trying to do. Then you cause confusion in the

3176
03:01:22,446 --> 03:01:24,648
community and that is what we try to

3177
03:01:24,648 --> 03:01:26,650
prevent. So I believe it's our job here

3178
03:01:26,650 --> 03:01:28,185
to flush out all of the concerns and

3179
03:01:28,185 --> 03:01:31,389
questions. You can't do that if we don't

3180
03:01:31,389 --> 03:01:34,858
have the community's input, which we're

3181
03:01:34,858 --> 03:01:36,260
start getting probably right before

3182
03:01:36,260 --> 03:01:38,463
the Council Meeting and then we'll

3183
03:01:38,463 --> 03:01:41,486
have to either send it back to

3184
03:01:41,486 --> 03:01:44,355
Committee or amend it in the full Council,

3185
03:01:44,355 --> 03:01:46,957
which is not the preferred way to go.

3186
03:01:46,957 --> 03:01:49,493
So I made the comments up front, that I

3187
03:01:49,493 --> 03:01:52,296
would suggest that we take another

3188
03:01:52,296 --> 03:01:55,566
couple of weeks to flush out all of the

3189
03:01:55,566 --> 03:01:57,635
questions and concerns, and some -- we

3190
03:01:57,635 --> 03:01:59,236
got testimonies up until today.

3191
03:01:59,236 --> 03:02:01,505
I just got testimonies for this Bill

3192
03:02:01,505 --> 03:02:04,775
today while we're in this meeting.

3193
03:02:04,775 --> 03:02:06,911
And we're not going to give them the

3194
03:02:06,911 --> 03:02:09,381
opportunity the proper time to process,

3195
03:02:09,381 --> 03:02:12,783
and vet out with the Planning Department, and everybody else.

3196
03:02:12,783 --> 03:02:15,653
So if I was voting today, I would not

3197
03:02:15,653 --> 03:02:18,856
be voteing in support of it. I would be asking for a

3198
03:02:18,856 --> 03:02:23,460
deferral. But if we get it to full

3199
03:02:23,460 --> 03:02:26,597
Council next week, hopefully I'm prepared to

3200
03:02:26,597 --> 03:02:27,732
make a vote at that time.

3201
03:02:27,732 --> 03:02:31,201
>> Council Member Cowden. >> I'm also one who wants to

3202
03:02:31,201 --> 03:02:33,300
have it delayed another two weeks,

3203
03:02:33,300 --> 03:02:34,605
because something I think is really

3204
03:02:34,605 --> 03:02:38,609
important on this is that were the first

3205
03:02:38,609 --> 03:02:40,143
County in the nation, as least that is

3206
03:02:40,143 --> 03:02:43,881
what we have been told that they are

3207
03:02:43,881 --> 03:02:48,810
aware of to create a Wildland Urban

3208
03:02:48,850 --> 03:02:49,820
Interface Bill is very important and

3209
03:02:49,820 --> 03:02:51,555
setting a standard that will probably be

3210
03:02:51,555 --> 03:02:53,757
looked at in many different places.

3211
03:02:53,757 --> 03:02:56,227
So I think possibly looked at

3212
03:02:56,227 --> 03:02:58,829
nationally, and so I honestly feel like it

3213
03:02:58,829 --> 03:03:01,231
needs to have a cluster of policy bills.

3214
03:03:01,231 --> 03:03:06,310
But we need to have a very holistic

3215
03:03:08,105 --> 03:03:10,641
piece and how it is now or the worst

3216
03:03:10,641 --> 03:03:12,244
possible scenario, what I was bringing

3217
03:03:12,244 --> 03:03:15,646
up in one of the Amendments is after

3218
03:03:15,646 --> 03:03:18,582
the Lahaina Fire, it almost turned the

3219
03:03:18,582 --> 03:03:24,522
soil to glass. It was so hard it wouldn't have

3220
03:03:24,522 --> 03:03:25,923
mattered the percolation rate in that

3221
03:03:25,923 --> 03:03:27,459
case and especially when we have so

3222
03:03:27,459 --> 03:03:30,794
much sand. But I think when it's either

3223
03:03:30,794 --> 03:03:34,464
zero or the absolute worst scenario, I

3224
03:03:34,464 --> 03:03:37,468
feel like we really have to have a

3225
03:03:37,468 --> 03:03:40,404
strong understanding of soils, and how

3226
03:03:40,404 --> 03:03:41,739
soils manage.

3227
03:03:41,739 --> 03:03:45,409
Because when we look at we have people

3228
03:03:45,409 --> 03:03:47,945
bringing up climate change, yes.

3229
03:03:47,945 --> 03:03:49,947
Climate change is happening, but it's

3230
03:03:49,947 --> 03:03:51,615
probably happening, as much as the

3231
03:03:51,615 --> 03:03:55,353
abuse of the soil as it is for what

3232
03:03:55,353 --> 03:03:58,356
happens in the air and the sky, and the

3233
03:03:58,356 --> 03:04:02,559
carbon offset, and all of that. And I think that we -- I would

3234
03:04:02,559 --> 03:04:04,562
really like to have KIUC.

3235
03:04:04,562 --> 03:04:06,832
I'm sure that they have spoken with

3236
03:04:06,832 --> 03:04:08,765
Planning. I think that is a big part of

3237
03:04:08,765 --> 03:04:11,902
it, too. When I think about when you're

3238
03:04:11,902 --> 03:04:14,504
saying well how do we make it -- we're

3239
03:04:14,504 --> 03:04:15,572
really looking at Fire Safety.

3240
03:04:15,572 --> 03:04:20,440
Do we say you have to have underground

3241
03:04:20,440 --> 03:04:21,846
power line lines is what started

3242
03:04:21,846 --> 03:04:24,316
Lahaina had a big part of many of the

3243
03:04:24,316 --> 03:04:27,916
California fires in the wildfire area.

3244
03:04:28,585 --> 03:04:32,456
So we're putting all of this burden

3245
03:04:32,456 --> 03:04:35,459
right on houses, and so I feel like we

3246
03:04:35,459 --> 03:04:39,930
need to have a much broader element of

3247
03:04:39,930 --> 03:04:46,272
how we're looking at it. So then I want to say just as a

3248
03:04:46,272 --> 03:04:49,272
comment about the yearly reviews.

3249
03:04:49,675 --> 03:04:52,813
When we first passed something, yearly

3250
03:04:52,813 --> 03:04:55,148
review, but we're going to have four

3251
03:04:55,148 --> 03:04:56,950
brand-new Council Members next time,

3252
03:04:56,950 --> 03:04:58,618
our Mayor will have been sitting in

3253
03:04:58,618 --> 03:05:01,221
this room, because either one of the

3254
03:05:01,221 --> 03:05:05,357
candidates are here. But there will be quite a bit

3255
03:05:05,357 --> 03:05:09,429
of time that comes on and this doesn't

3256
03:05:09,429 --> 03:05:12,765
say when that yearly review start?

3257
03:05:12,765 --> 03:05:18,380
When does it start? Does it start as soon as we

3258
03:05:18,380 --> 03:05:20,106
build it or every year we look?

3259
03:05:20,106 --> 03:05:22,776
I appreciate Council Member Kaneshiro

3260
03:05:22,776 --> 03:05:24,176
complimented the amazing work that our

3261
03:05:24,176 --> 03:05:27,776
Fire Department has done with Hawai'i

3262
03:05:30,182 --> 03:05:31,584
Wildfire Management Organization and

3263
03:05:31,584 --> 03:05:33,519
happy to be part of that stakeholder

3264
03:05:33,519 --> 03:05:36,322
grown. I have been paying attention

3265
03:05:36,322 --> 03:05:38,524
since I started almost eight years ago

3266
03:05:38,524 --> 03:05:40,326
and really that Fire interest has

3267
03:05:40,326 --> 03:05:42,530
been hot on the heels of the Lahaina

3268
03:05:42,530 --> 03:05:45,665
Fire. But ten years from now, it may

3269
03:05:45,665 --> 03:05:47,400
no longer be; right? So we might

3270
03:05:47,400 --> 03:05:52,200
not be looking at that as much then.

3271
03:05:52,204 --> 03:05:55,809
So I think we need to be very, very

3272
03:05:55,809 --> 03:05:59,412
careful. We aren't crushed for time, and

3273
03:05:59,412 --> 03:06:02,816
it is work to sit and look at it, but

3274
03:06:02,816 --> 03:06:05,170
I think the landscaping elements are

3275
03:06:05,170 --> 03:06:07,153
parts that really do make me

3276
03:06:07,153 --> 03:06:10,623
uncomfortable, because I think if you have a

3277
03:06:10,623 --> 03:06:12,425
whole big subdivision that has

3278
03:06:12,425 --> 03:06:16,696
landscaping that is going to starve the soil of

3279
03:06:16,696 --> 03:06:20,296
its micros and mi psyllium and

3280
03:06:21,167 --> 03:06:25,105
worms and all of that, we'll create a hot

3281
03:06:25,105 --> 03:06:28,105
scape and increase the problem.

3282
03:06:30,576 --> 03:06:32,846
So I really want to see a lot looked at

3283
03:06:32,846 --> 03:06:35,381
with the plant and not just how fast

3284
03:06:35,381 --> 03:06:38,184
they burn, but takeing them away

3285
03:06:38,184 --> 03:06:41,654
creates burnable space? So where I do appreciate what

3286
03:06:41,654 --> 03:06:45,458
some of Anna did say, if you just -- if

3287
03:06:45,458 --> 03:06:49,580
you are only looking for Fire

3288
03:06:49,130 --> 03:06:53,399
suppression, and you are not looking at flood,

3289
03:06:53,399 --> 03:06:55,468
because when you ruin the soil, you

3290
03:06:55,468 --> 03:06:56,736
increase the flooding.

3291
03:06:56,736 --> 03:06:58,871
Because it won't percolate as well.

3292
03:06:58,871 --> 03:07:02,275
And so I think all of that is really

3293
03:07:02,275 --> 03:07:04,411
important. >> Council Member Holland.

3294
03:07:04,411 --> 03:07:08,214
>> Thank you all very much. I want to start by thanking

3295
03:07:08,214 --> 03:07:10,160
Council Member Kaneshiro for

3296
03:07:10,160 --> 03:07:11,217
introducing my Amendments and for your

3297
03:07:11,217 --> 03:07:14,620
support. I want to say overall with this

3298
03:07:14,620 --> 03:07:18,910
Bill, I obviously have concerns there's

3299
03:07:18,910 --> 03:07:19,292
an increase in costs.

3300
03:07:19,292 --> 03:07:22,962
I love the fact it's offset by the FRC

3301
03:07:22,962 --> 03:07:24,765
charge being reduced, but I definitely

3302
03:07:24,765 --> 03:07:27,990
have concerns about the funding of the

3303
03:07:27,990 --> 03:07:29,835
Water Department as well. I think there's a deeper

3304
03:07:29,835 --> 03:07:31,503
conversation there, because I think we

3305
03:07:31,503 --> 03:07:34,441
should not be paying the FRC for most

3306
03:07:34,441 --> 03:07:36,110
housing, especially affordable housing

3307
03:07:36,110 --> 03:07:38,778
anyway. You know, when it comes to

3308
03:07:38,778 --> 03:07:41,114
deferral, two of you have mentioned to

3309
03:07:41,114 --> 03:07:42,186
have more time.

3310
03:07:42,186 --> 03:07:45,389
I don't have really any opposition to

3311
03:07:45,389 --> 03:07:47,725
that. I guess I just want to speak a

3312
03:07:47,725 --> 03:07:50,128
little to some of the testimony we

3313
03:07:50,128 --> 03:07:53,264
heard today, and we heard very

3314
03:07:53,264 --> 03:07:56,267
clearly, and I hear very clearly that life and

3315
03:07:56,267 --> 03:07:58,736
the cost of life is always going to

3316
03:07:58,736 --> 03:08:01,806
be of more value than a little bit of

3317
03:08:01,806 --> 03:08:04,208
investment that costs a home a little

3318
03:08:04,208 --> 03:08:07,812
bit more persquare foot. I think to me that is always a

3319
03:08:07,812 --> 03:08:09,812
clear decision.

3320
03:08:10,810 --> 03:08:12,950
Looking at the overall management of

3321
03:08:12,950 --> 03:08:16,550
Fire risk, like wildlands and flamable

3322
03:08:18,424 --> 03:08:22,427
invasives is an important part of the

3323
03:08:22,427 --> 03:08:24,280
ongoing conversation and I don't think

3324
03:08:24,280 --> 03:08:25,630
this measure has anything to do with

3325
03:08:25,630 --> 03:08:28,767
that, but we passed additional Fire

3326
03:08:28,767 --> 03:08:31,102
measures to limit flammable species

3327
03:08:31,102 --> 03:08:33,972
around homes and structures. And I think that these continue

3328
03:08:33,972 --> 03:08:35,439
to be important things that we also

3329
03:08:35,439 --> 03:08:36,373
have to work on.

3330
03:08:36,373 --> 03:08:39,510
I don't think they necessarily negate

3331
03:08:39,510 --> 03:08:41,445
the prevention mechanism this is.

3332
03:08:41,445 --> 03:08:43,981
You know, I do think that these are

3333
03:08:43,981 --> 03:08:45,716
also critical things that we need to

3334
03:08:45,716 --> 03:08:48,520
look at. I think it's not an ideal Bill

3335
03:08:48,520 --> 03:08:51,189
and I appreciate that was said also

3336
03:08:51,189 --> 03:08:53,124
by I believe water.

3337
03:08:53,124 --> 03:08:56,600
This is not an ideal situation, but

3338
03:08:56,600 --> 03:08:59,398
it's needed so that we can do everything that we can.

3339
03:08:59,398 --> 03:09:03,468
Because the cost of life is so valuable

3340
03:09:03,468 --> 03:09:06,604
and not losing life is Virginia Tech.

3341
03:09:06,604 --> 03:09:08,606
valuable and I appreciate the comments

3342
03:09:08,606 --> 03:09:09,740
of Habitat for Humanity and there's a

3343
03:09:09,740 --> 03:09:12,210
lot of different things to look at, as

3344
03:09:12,210 --> 03:09:15,210
I said, water addressing ability,

3345
03:09:16,881 --> 03:09:18,683
electric all the thicks to put fires

3346
03:09:18,683 --> 03:09:21,485
out is Councilly important. The bottom-line, we're still

3347
03:09:21,485 --> 03:09:23,754
going to be talking about this in ten

3348
03:09:23,754 --> 03:09:25,222
years because we have a radically

3349
03:09:25,222 --> 03:09:27,692
changing environment and no going back

3350
03:09:27,692 --> 03:09:31,292
to the invasive species that we're

3351
03:09:31,495 --> 03:09:32,497
dealing with.

3352
03:09:32,497 --> 03:09:34,565
With another hurricane and having

3353
03:09:34,565 --> 03:09:37,302
Albizia as we do today will be a

3354
03:09:37,302 --> 03:09:42,702
massive difference from 1992. that goes for Fire, there's no

3355
03:09:45,176 --> 03:09:47,179
sign that is getting better. So the

3356
03:09:47,179 --> 03:09:49,513
more to be prepared and think ahead and

3357
03:09:49,513 --> 03:09:50,515
be proactive is the right thing to

3358
03:09:50,515 --> 03:09:52,851
do. So overall I support the

3359
03:09:52,851 --> 03:09:53,918
fundamentals of this.

3360
03:09:53,918 --> 03:09:56,788
I do get concerned when I see the

3361
03:09:56,788 --> 03:09:59,190
massive differences in some of the cost

3362
03:09:59,190 --> 03:10:01,192
assessments because I know nothing

3363
03:10:01,192 --> 03:10:05,397
about building at all. so I have no idea and no

3364
03:10:05,397 --> 03:10:07,132
understanding what that looks like or the

3365
03:10:07,132 --> 03:10:09,670
reasonable costs that they would be.

3366
03:10:09,670 --> 03:10:13,267
I think it's important is to understand

3367
03:10:14,600 --> 03:10:16,608
some of the understandings that we have

3368
03:10:16,608 --> 03:10:20,208
about trees holding water, or irrigated

3369
03:10:20,478 --> 03:10:23,810
grass land, like I had suggested, is

3370
03:10:23,810 --> 03:10:24,150
still something had a we have to go

3371
03:10:24,150 --> 03:10:26,417
back to the scientists to test these

3372
03:10:26,417 --> 03:10:28,753
things and actually know, like, this is

3373
03:10:28,753 --> 03:10:32,424
-- they test these things in the field

3374
03:10:32,424 --> 03:10:35,250
and in the lab to get that clarity.

3375
03:10:35,250 --> 03:10:37,162
That is why I appreciate that in

3376
03:10:37,162 --> 03:10:39,290
considering the future of some of that

3377
03:10:39,290 --> 03:10:40,898
vegetation and also respect the fact

3378
03:10:40,898 --> 03:10:42,242
that they don't feel that they have the

3379
03:10:42,242 --> 03:10:46,245
data to do that today. I do think that just from my

3380
03:10:46,245 --> 03:10:47,914
experience, growing up partially in

3381
03:10:47,914 --> 03:10:49,315
Australia, back and forth, I have

3382
03:10:49,315 --> 03:10:51,851
liveed in a place where every single

3383
03:10:51,851 --> 03:10:54,188
Bush home has concrete surrounded

3384
03:10:54,188 --> 03:10:56,388
patio, covered about a metal awning

3385
03:10:56,388 --> 03:10:59,192
with a very Australian look. It's

3386
03:10:59,192 --> 03:11:01,594
something that we learned to utilize as

3387
03:11:01,594 --> 03:11:06,867
a patio space and pretty common throughout most all of rural

3388
03:11:06,867 --> 03:11:10,467
Australia. So I don't think it's

3389
03:11:12,672 --> 03:11:13,940
unnecessarily arbitrary.

3390
03:11:13,940 --> 03:11:17,476
I think we're just not used to that in

3391
03:11:17,476 --> 03:11:21,760
Hawai'i,, because we shouldn't have an

3392
03:11:22,949 --> 03:11:24,751
Australian landscape here and we do.

3393
03:11:24,751 --> 03:11:26,152
There's no perfect solutions Burke it's

3394
03:11:26,152 --> 03:11:28,888
of the day, the investment in safety

3395
03:11:28,888 --> 03:11:31,157
and saving of lives will remain my

3396
03:11:31,157 --> 03:11:36,557
priority as a Council Member. Thank you very much.

3397
03:11:38,765 --> 03:11:41,165
Council Member Cattlemen's Association.

3398
03:11:41,300 --> 03:11:43,235
Council Member Kaneshiro. >> I have no reason not to

3399
03:11:43,235 --> 03:11:44,637
have a deferral on it.

3400
03:11:44,637 --> 03:11:47,107
I don't think it needs to be passed

3401
03:11:47,107 --> 03:11:50,310
today, right away, getting a little

3402
03:11:50,310 --> 03:11:52,645
more information is good, but I know we

3403
03:11:52,645 --> 03:11:55,648
should end up getting to a point that

3404
03:11:55,648 --> 03:11:58,510
we make a decision. I'm open to a

3405
03:11:58,510 --> 03:12:01,121
deferral if people with not comfortable

3406
03:12:01,121 --> 03:12:02,789
yes. I don't think the Amendments

3407
03:12:02,789 --> 03:12:04,857
passed were that controversial and

3408
03:12:04,857 --> 03:12:06,325
probably helped with us being the

3409
03:12:06,325 --> 03:12:09,962
sideing that is fire-resistant, so you don't

3410
03:12:09,962 --> 03:12:12,398
need to did the fife foot.

3411
03:12:12,398 --> 03:12:16,680
As far as the whole Bill, I think the

3412
03:12:16,680 --> 03:12:18,500
added costs to could that is something

3413
03:12:18,500 --> 03:12:21,273
that sits in everyone's stomach that we

3414
03:12:21,273 --> 03:12:23,343
don't want to add costs to homeowners.

3415
03:12:23,343 --> 03:12:25,412
Again, when you look at it after

3416
03:12:25,412 --> 03:12:26,946
hearing from the Water Department, I

3417
03:12:26,946 --> 03:12:28,682
think I'm more compelled to think we

3418
03:12:28,682 --> 03:12:31,150
actually need it, because the Water

3419
03:12:31,150 --> 03:12:33,152
Department said we may not be able to

3420
03:12:33,152 --> 03:12:35,154
provide water to everybody. So what do we do?

3421
03:12:35,154 --> 03:12:37,290
We have to protect ourselves first and

3422
03:12:37,290 --> 03:12:39,626
these measures are for us to protect

3423
03:12:39,626 --> 03:12:41,494
ourselves and our houses first, so we

3424
03:12:41,494 --> 03:12:44,831
don't have to sit and say I hope my

3425
03:12:44,831 --> 03:12:47,701
water turns on and I hope the utilities

3426
03:12:47,701 --> 03:12:50,904
don't go off because of the Fire and

3427
03:12:50,904 --> 03:12:53,380
this protects to help protect your

3428
03:12:53,380 --> 03:12:55,775
house now. So I see the need for it and

3429
03:12:55,775 --> 03:12:57,176
I'm in favor of that.

3430
03:12:57,176 --> 03:13:02,576
Resilience starts with us. This is what this does.

3431
03:13:02,781 --> 03:13:07,581
Creating resilience. So I'm hope to the deferral.

3432
03:13:08,454 --> 03:13:16,328
I am open to voting on this. I'm in favor of voting on it

3433
03:13:16,328 --> 03:13:18,797
and I'm willing to entertain a

3434
03:13:18,797 --> 03:13:22,997
deferral. I know we have a big

3435
03:13:23,200 --> 03:13:24,470
discrepancy in costs and at the end of the day

3436
03:13:24,470 --> 03:13:26,206
to get together and say this is the

3437
03:13:26,206 --> 03:13:29,142
exact spec of what we're specing and let's

3438
03:13:29,142 --> 03:13:30,143
compare them.

3439
03:13:30,143 --> 03:13:33,146
You know, special people have brought

3440
03:13:33,146 --> 03:13:35,140
up in the public the fear if we pass

3441
03:13:35,140 --> 03:13:37,820
this all the costs on these type of

3442
03:13:37,820 --> 03:13:42,566
materials will go up. But it's kind of similar to how

3443
03:13:42,566 --> 03:13:44,167
septic systems.

3444
03:13:44,167 --> 03:13:46,238
Septic systems the costs started

3445
03:13:46,238 --> 03:13:48,239
growing, but I don't necessarily see it

3446
03:13:48,239 --> 03:13:51,575
the same as a septic system. A septic system you need to

3447
03:13:51,575 --> 03:13:53,444
install in your yard and there's only a

3448
03:13:53,444 --> 03:13:54,711
few people that do it.

3449
03:13:54,711 --> 03:13:59,450
When we're talking about new construction, these guys are

3450
03:13:59,450 --> 03:14:01,652
bidding on a entire house and this small

3451
03:14:01,652 --> 03:14:03,454
cost won't affect if they go with

3452
03:14:03,454 --> 03:14:04,988
that contractor or not? That

3453
03:14:04,988 --> 03:14:07,691
contractor will have to find ways to make

3454
03:14:07,691 --> 03:14:09,727
it affordable to actually build

3455
03:14:09,727 --> 03:14:11,196
the House and spec with different

3456
03:14:11,196 --> 03:14:13,731
developers. This is not a big portion of

3457
03:14:13,731 --> 03:14:14,464
the house costs.

3458
03:14:14,464 --> 03:14:18,269
So I see it as Apples and Oranges in

3459
03:14:18,269 --> 03:14:22,469
that aspect which makes me a little

3460
03:14:23,741 --> 03:14:26,344
more comfortable. I don't see people going craze

3461
03:14:26,344 --> 03:14:28,612
and saying this new construction

3462
03:14:28,612 --> 03:14:31,810
are cost way more because of this extra

3463
03:14:31,810 --> 03:14:31,882
stuff along the way.

3464
03:14:31,882 --> 03:14:35,285
That is just my comments. Again, I am in favor of this

3465
03:14:35,285 --> 03:14:38,356
Bill. I do see the need for it.

3466
03:14:38,356 --> 03:14:41,625
More so with Department of Water and

3467
03:14:41,625 --> 03:14:45,563
their comments today. But I'm willing to entertain a

3468
03:14:45,563 --> 03:14:49,166
deferral and hear more from the public.

3469
03:14:49,166 --> 03:14:51,635
>> Any additional comments? Council Member Carvalho.

3470
03:14:51,635 --> 03:14:55,380
>> I just want to say mahalo for the

3471
03:14:55,380 --> 03:14:56,908
discussion, and a lot of going back and

3472
03:14:56,908 --> 03:14:59,577
forth. I appreciate the team effort,

3473
03:14:59,577 --> 03:15:01,378
because even with the Water Department,

3474
03:15:01,378 --> 03:15:04,480
like Council Member was just

3475
03:15:04,480 --> 03:15:07,452
mentioning, and the need to push forward, even

3476
03:15:07,452 --> 03:15:09,787
with our Planning Department.

3477
03:15:09,787 --> 03:15:12,123
I had numerous conversations on this

3478
03:15:12,123 --> 03:15:14,391
issue, and to me, you know, we need to

3479
03:15:14,391 --> 03:15:16,927
move forward. That is what I am thinking.

3480
03:15:16,927 --> 03:15:19,131
At the same time, I know there's

3481
03:15:19,131 --> 03:15:21,732
challenges, and there's issues, but

3482
03:15:21,732 --> 03:15:23,467
what is the decision to make today?

3483
03:15:23,467 --> 03:15:28,867
You know? And again, for me, I have had

3484
03:15:29,674 --> 03:15:31,740
numerous discussions.

3485
03:15:31,740 --> 03:15:33,677
I think addressing this sooner than

3486
03:15:33,677 --> 03:15:35,346
later, because heaven's knows what is

3487
03:15:35,346 --> 03:15:37,614
going to happen tomorrow? I truly

3488
03:15:37,614 --> 03:15:40,850
appreciate the discussion, and efforts

3489
03:15:40,850 --> 03:15:44,488
going back and forth. So I'm still at that point, but

3490
03:15:44,488 --> 03:15:46,690
believe me, I really appreciate the

3491
03:15:46,690 --> 03:15:48,693
effort and the talking, especially with

3492
03:15:48,693 --> 03:15:50,894
the water guys coming forward.

3493
03:15:50,894 --> 03:15:55,940
Of course, our Planning team and the

3494
03:15:57,100 --> 03:15:58,436
Fire Department having discussions with

3495
03:15:58,436 --> 03:16:00,504
them, saying this is something that is

3496
03:16:00,504 --> 03:16:02,773
needed sooner than later. At the same time, as

3497
03:16:02,773 --> 03:16:05,242
decision-makers we need to look at the overall

3498
03:16:05,242 --> 03:16:06,844
picture; right? And at the same time,

3499
03:16:06,844 --> 03:16:08,712
I'm at that point right now.

3500
03:16:08,712 --> 03:16:11,449
I just wanted to share that. >> Thank you.

3501
03:16:11,449 --> 03:16:16,849
Council Member Kuali'i. >> This is a really big Bill,

3502
03:16:16,854 --> 03:16:18,389
critically important, lifesaving

3503
03:16:18,389 --> 03:16:21,325
impacts I'm ready to support it today,

3504
03:16:21,325 --> 03:16:24,661
but of course, I easily support a

3505
03:16:24,661 --> 03:16:25,796
deferral as well.

3506
03:16:25,796 --> 03:16:27,598
I appreciate all of the work that has

3507
03:16:27,598 --> 03:16:32,203
been put into it so far. It's been a long time coming

3508
03:16:32,203 --> 03:16:35,673
and a long time -- a lot of work put into

3509
03:16:35,673 --> 03:16:37,674
it. I appreciate the four

3510
03:16:37,674 --> 03:16:40,477
Amendments today. It makes it a better Bill and I

3511
03:16:40,477 --> 03:16:43,961
just hope that people will use the

3512
03:16:43,961 --> 03:16:46,431
next two weeks with the deferral to get

3513
03:16:46,431 --> 03:16:49,234
more input from the public, to get

3514
03:16:49,234 --> 03:16:51,904
more information from contractors or

3515
03:16:51,904 --> 03:16:55,504
whoever. Looking at the numbers more

3516
03:16:56,641 --> 03:17:00,241
closely and work on additional Amendments

3517
03:17:00,779 --> 03:17:03,181
that will make the Bill even better.

3518
03:17:03,181 --> 03:17:07,385
So no rush I support a deferral I do my comments.

3519
03:17:07,385 --> 03:17:09,854
>> I just want to make it clear I

3520
03:17:09,854 --> 03:17:12,457
definitely support the Bill in concept.

3521
03:17:12,457 --> 03:17:15,794
We won't lose or save one life by

3522
03:17:15,794 --> 03:17:17,729
taking two-week deferral, it's not like

3523
03:17:17,729 --> 03:17:19,197
that critical, regardless of what we do

3524
03:17:19,197 --> 03:17:21,533
today or two weeks from now is not

3525
03:17:21,533 --> 03:17:23,535
going to change how many lives we save.

3526
03:17:23,535 --> 03:17:26,535
So I appreciate the understanding.

3527
03:17:27,139 --> 03:17:29,541
You know, I will figure it out why

3528
03:17:29,541 --> 03:17:34,279
there's the disparity. The disparity is starting with

3529
03:17:34,279 --> 03:17:35,614
different numbers or whatever the case

3530
03:17:35,614 --> 03:17:38,216
may be? I just want to feel

3531
03:17:38,216 --> 03:17:39,417
comfortable. There's a bigger reason, too

3532
03:17:39,417 --> 03:17:44,217
and this was discussed by the guy from

3533
03:17:49,561 --> 03:17:51,561
underwriters. >> Derek Alkonis.

3534
03:17:52,564 --> 03:17:54,966
>> He mentioned the importance of

3535
03:17:54,966 --> 03:17:56,568
making sure our insurance companies

3536
03:17:56,568 --> 03:17:59,171
stay in our market for Fire insurance.

3537
03:17:59,171 --> 03:18:02,174
That wasn't talked about today. That is my concern.

3538
03:18:02,174 --> 03:18:04,420
We want a Bill that is so tight and

3539
03:18:04,420 --> 03:18:07,111
clear that the Insurance Companys can

3540
03:18:07,111 --> 03:18:10,983
appreciate and say okay, we'll stay in

3541
03:18:10,983 --> 03:18:12,983
this [PHA-URGT/]. market.

3542
03:18:14,252 --> 03:18:19,520
The reality is if we don't Firewise our

3543
03:18:20,258 --> 03:18:21,726
communities, the Insurance Companys may

3544
03:18:21,726 --> 03:18:24,529
pull out. It's not about getting cheaper

3545
03:18:24,529 --> 03:18:27,999
rates and I heard somebody say today

3546
03:18:27,999 --> 03:18:30,935
it will lower your insurance rates.

3547
03:18:30,935 --> 03:18:33,672
This isn't about lowering your insurance rates, but keeping

3548
03:18:33,672 --> 03:18:35,940
Insurance Companys in the [PHA-RGTS/].

3549
03:18:35,940 --> 03:18:39,477
market. Because if you are not having

3550
03:18:39,477 --> 03:18:40,678
insurance, you don't have a mortgage

3551
03:18:40,678 --> 03:18:42,414
and without a mortgage, you not getting

3552
03:18:42,414 --> 03:18:45,550
a house. So beyond what this Bill

3553
03:18:45,550 --> 03:18:47,285
entails, what this Bill allows this community

3554
03:18:47,285 --> 03:18:49,285
to benefit from.

3555
03:18:49,287 --> 03:18:51,210
It's an Insurance Company that stays in

3556
03:18:51,210 --> 03:18:52,690
the market. Thank you.

3557
03:18:52,690 --> 03:18:55,426
>> I will just share my comments and

3558
03:18:55,426 --> 03:18:58,363
I'm sure there might be more. I will state first I'm in

3559
03:18:58,363 --> 03:19:03,163
support. I do think we should pass it

3560
03:19:03,167 --> 03:19:07,967
out today. I will start with the date.

3561
03:19:11,176 --> 03:19:14,776
August 8, to 2023 was Lahaina fires and

3562
03:19:20,117 --> 03:19:25,517
sunrise ince then we had seven wildfires on Kaua'i.

3563
03:19:33,264 --> 03:19:36,868
Luckily we're not counting [TKA-EPBLGZ/] and deaths and

3564
03:19:36,868 --> 03:19:39,337
when I think about the Bill and the

3565
03:19:39,337 --> 03:19:42,937
intro of the Bill, the Administration

3566
03:19:43,240 --> 03:19:44,159
administrate made the description that

3567
03:19:44,159 --> 03:19:48,430
the team that worked on this was the

3568
03:19:48,430 --> 03:19:50,830
1998 Olympic dream-team that came

3569
03:19:53,168 --> 03:19:56,704
together to propose some changes in our

3570
03:19:56,704 --> 03:19:59,240
Bill, in our laws to protect our

3571
03:19:59,240 --> 03:20:02,240
community. The 1998 Olympic dream-team and

3572
03:20:07,515 --> 03:20:11,520
if you are fans of basketball, that is

3573
03:20:11,520 --> 03:20:13,540
best team arguably of all basketball

3574
03:20:13,540 --> 03:20:15,390
teams. I think the Fire Chief was

3575
03:20:15,390 --> 03:20:16,457
completely wrong on that.

3576
03:20:16,457 --> 03:20:18,460
This is not the NBA basketball team

3577
03:20:18,460 --> 03:20:22,330
that came to build this, I would use

3578
03:20:22,330 --> 03:20:25,930
the anology that we assembled, they

3579
03:20:26,100 --> 03:20:31,401
assembled the avengeers. When I say the avengeers, who

3580
03:20:31,740 --> 03:20:33,675
were avenging something and the

3581
03:20:33,675 --> 03:20:36,411
avenging was the death of 101 people.

3582
03:20:36,411 --> 03:20:39,214
So when we think about this Bill and

3583
03:20:39,214 --> 03:20:42,417
how big it is, and the efforts that

3584
03:20:42,417 --> 03:20:45,417
have beenpult put together, we're

3585
03:20:45,686 --> 03:20:48,289
talking about the avengeers in the U.S.

3586
03:20:48,289 --> 03:20:50,558
Fire alliance, the Underwriters Laboratories Research

3587
03:20:50,558 --> 03:20:54,158
Institutes, the headwater [KPH-EBGZ/] and HM

3588
03:20:54,896 --> 03:20:56,431
Hawai'i Wildfire Management

3589
03:20:56,431 --> 03:20:58,434
Organization and many different contractors that

3590
03:20:58,434 --> 03:21:00,768
came together, the input from the

3591
03:21:00,768 --> 03:21:02,904
entire community that lives here and

3592
03:21:02,904 --> 03:21:04,906
input that experienced the challenges

3593
03:21:04,906 --> 03:21:07,442
of what was -- what was occurred and

3594
03:21:07,442 --> 03:21:10,111
then us, our community, the council

3595
03:21:10,111 --> 03:21:13,480
members that have to deliberate these

3596
03:21:13,480 --> 03:21:15,450
questions, and talk with our experts, talk

3597
03:21:15,450 --> 03:21:17,585
with our community, reach out, make sure

3598
03:21:17,585 --> 03:21:18,921
that we're considering every as peg

3599
03:21:18,921 --> 03:21:21,921
of it. Aspect of it.

3600
03:21:36,537 --> 03:21:39,700
we don't want to put another number in

3601
03:21:39,700 --> 03:21:45,700
that category of lost lives. So I truly appreciate this

3602
03:21:45,130 --> 03:21:47,150
body, and the Committee for the work that

3603
03:21:47,150 --> 03:21:50,152
you have done, and the avengeers

3604
03:21:50,152 --> 03:21:53,555
that was assembles in the last two

3605
03:21:53,555 --> 03:21:55,290
years to work on this and all the input

3606
03:21:55,290 --> 03:21:57,158
from our community.

3607
03:21:57,158 --> 03:22:02,163
My push to pass this is not a rush in

3608
03:22:02,163 --> 03:22:07,563
my perspective. It is a call to action to

3609
03:22:08,370 --> 03:22:09,304
prevent these things.

3610
03:22:09,304 --> 03:22:14,175
I don't want to wait. And I give that examplele I

3611
03:22:14,175 --> 03:22:16,844
don't want to wait because I'm a serial

3612
03:22:16,844 --> 03:22:21,450
prepper, like I have a go-bag in every

3613
03:22:21,450 --> 03:22:22,984
car in every place.

3614
03:22:22,984 --> 03:22:26,922
I am ready for everything. And I still don't feel ready

3615
03:22:26,922 --> 03:22:29,457
with this Bill that is going to do

3616
03:22:29,457 --> 03:22:32,194
enough, because it needs more.

3617
03:22:32,194 --> 03:22:36,666
But doesn't mean I don't prep. And I don't do the necessary

3618
03:22:36,666 --> 03:22:40,201
things from if now until then to be

3619
03:22:40,201 --> 03:22:42,557
ready and I feel this is one step forward

3620
03:22:42,557 --> 03:22:44,491
and allows us to address some -- if

3621
03:22:44,491 --> 03:22:47,428
not a lot of concerns that we

3622
03:22:47,428 --> 03:22:50,364
experienced, that experts have shared with

3623
03:22:50,364 --> 03:22:53,967
us. I would love to be the first to

3624
03:22:53,967 --> 03:22:56,504
protect, and it's something that I want

3625
03:22:56,504 --> 03:22:59,775
us as a body to continue to work

3626
03:22:59,775 --> 03:23:03,975
towards. And the argument about cost of

3627
03:23:04,445 --> 03:23:06,981
living versus cost of life is such a

3628
03:23:06,981 --> 03:23:12,381
hard one to sit in this seat as your

3629
03:23:12,987 --> 03:23:14,455
community decision-makers regarding these

3630
03:23:14,455 --> 03:23:17,792
bills. Because I don't have a home.

3631
03:23:17,792 --> 03:23:21,129
We have been looking to buy a houses,

3632
03:23:21,129 --> 03:23:24,798
build a house, add an extension, build

3633
03:23:24,798 --> 03:23:27,268
a garage for the last seven years and

3634
03:23:27,268 --> 03:23:29,804
I'm telling myself I'm going to pay

3635
03:23:29,804 --> 03:23:32,607
more to protect my community and

3636
03:23:32,607 --> 03:23:35,676
protect myself. I can say that yes, to me, and,

3637
03:23:35,676 --> 03:23:39,213
in fact before this Bill was put on, I

3638
03:23:39,213 --> 03:23:42,830
did do this home-hardening stuff

3639
03:23:42,830 --> 03:23:44,952
before this was even discussed.

3640
03:23:44,952 --> 03:23:46,622
I just personally looked at the things

3641
03:23:46,622 --> 03:23:49,691
that I could do to protect myself and

3642
03:23:49,691 --> 03:23:53,291
my family. And for 3,000 square foot

3643
03:23:54,361 --> 03:23:55,963
commercial building, spending half of my

3644
03:23:55,963 --> 03:24:00,101
time aside from this, it costs me

3645
03:24:00,101 --> 03:24:03,101
$1200 and back-breaking 12 hours to pick

3646
03:24:03,304 --> 03:24:06,840
up gravel and put five feet worth

3647
03:24:06,840 --> 03:24:10,440
of gravel around the building with

3648
03:24:15,490 --> 03:24:17,918
missing two-and-a-halfs in my spine and

3649
03:24:17,918 --> 03:24:20,318
40 Advils, I feel safer.

3650
03:24:20,454 --> 03:24:22,590
Was it worth it? Totally.

3651
03:24:22,590 --> 03:24:24,793
Was it before this Bill was passed or

3652
03:24:24,793 --> 03:24:26,127
considered? Yeah.

3653
03:24:26,127 --> 03:24:29,640
So I'm glad that we're looking at

3654
03:24:29,640 --> 03:24:29,930
home-hardening because now the next

3655
03:24:29,930 --> 03:24:33,801
step is to convince my parents even

3656
03:24:33,801 --> 03:24:35,470
though I'm going to pay it that we

3657
03:24:35,470 --> 03:24:37,404
still have to do it, because they are

3658
03:24:37,404 --> 03:24:40,607
going to lose their plants and they

3659
03:24:40,607 --> 03:24:43,210
love their plants. They absolutely love their

3660
03:24:43,210 --> 03:24:46,210
plants, maybe more than me.

3661
03:24:46,681 --> 03:24:51,481
But if that saves them, if that saves

3662
03:24:52,686 --> 03:24:58,625
me, and some possible future inheritance that may go to us,

3663
03:24:58,625 --> 03:25:00,625
probably not.

3664
03:25:00,828 --> 03:25:06,990
Let's do it. So when we think about the time

3665
03:25:06,990 --> 03:25:08,636
variance, I trust this avengeers team

3666
03:25:08,636 --> 03:25:10,838
we put together and I trust this body

3667
03:25:10,838 --> 03:25:13,107
to work on it, and make sure that we do

3668
03:25:13,107 --> 03:25:16,177
the necessary pieces to address all of

3669
03:25:16,177 --> 03:25:21,577
the needs. And hence why I think the four

3670
03:25:24,251 --> 03:25:25,386
Amendments adequately addressed the

3671
03:25:25,386 --> 03:25:27,454
needs, but other parts that need to be

3672
03:25:27,454 --> 03:25:29,724
addressed that will happy actual our

3673
03:25:29,724 --> 03:25:34,524
community. So if in all of the discussion,

3674
03:25:34,795 --> 03:25:37,864
probably the one thing that I haven't

3675
03:25:37,864 --> 03:25:39,667
heard mentioned that I want to point

3676
03:25:39,667 --> 03:25:42,200
out is what this Bill has done, and

3677
03:25:42,200 --> 03:25:44,271
that this body has done, it has allowed

3678
03:25:44,271 --> 03:25:46,407
the community to engage and start doing

3679
03:25:46,407 --> 03:25:48,342
the things now. You don't have to wait

3680
03:25:48,342 --> 03:25:51,279
to do any of these things to protect

3681
03:25:51,279 --> 03:25:53,147
yourself, if you are worried you can do

3682
03:25:53,147 --> 03:25:54,815
it right now, regardless of the Bill.

3683
03:25:54,815 --> 03:25:57,685
And I hope that voluntary practice is

3684
03:25:57,685 --> 03:25:59,220
done by our community, because we're

3685
03:25:59,220 --> 03:26:01,622
the first ones to respond for your

3686
03:26:01,622 --> 03:26:03,624
house, for yourself and your family and

3687
03:26:03,624 --> 03:26:07,950
our job is to support that movement and

3688
03:26:07,950 --> 03:26:09,497
allow us to have better and safer

3689
03:26:09,497 --> 03:26:10,832
communities and support each other.

3690
03:26:10,832 --> 03:26:15,636
I feel like if there's more to be done

3691
03:26:15,636 --> 03:26:17,840
in this Bill, I can see it happening in

3692
03:26:17,840 --> 03:26:21,709
other bills, but I feel very confident

3693
03:26:21,709 --> 03:26:23,845
in this Bill currently as-is as amended

3694
03:26:23,845 --> 03:26:26,581
and I hope that we can move forward on

3695
03:26:26,581 --> 03:26:28,981
this. Any additional comments?

3696
03:26:29,784 --> 03:26:31,986
Council Member Cowden. >> I have additional comments.

3697
03:26:31,986 --> 03:26:34,522
I appreciate all that has been said and

3698
03:26:34,522 --> 03:26:39,322
I want to tell the team, why areay.

3699
03:26:39,794 --> 03:26:41,863
yay, I'm very much behind it and I'm

3700
03:26:41,863 --> 03:26:44,199
planning to do a lot of it to my own

3701
03:26:44,199 --> 03:26:48,470
house and have started to. What I want to say had we not

3702
03:26:48,470 --> 03:26:52,670
moved this two weeks last time, it

3703
03:26:52,674 --> 03:26:56,744
probably would have passed on our last

3704
03:26:56,744 --> 03:26:57,813
Council Meeting.

3705
03:26:57,813 --> 03:27:02,130
He I was really uncomfortable that I

3706
03:27:03,551 --> 03:27:05,753
hadn't heard from the large land owners

3707
03:27:05,753 --> 03:27:07,622
and developers and I texted them

3708
03:27:07,622 --> 03:27:10,910
Friday, do you know this is coming and

3709
03:27:10,910 --> 03:27:11,559
explained where we were at and, in

3710
03:27:11,559 --> 03:27:14,695
fact, they didn't know. They didn't know it had even

3711
03:27:14,695 --> 03:27:18,295
come before Council. So I had

3712
03:27:18,299 --> 03:27:19,968
rather vigorous discussion two

3713
03:27:19,968 --> 03:27:22,637
different long phone calls with one of the

3714
03:27:22,637 --> 03:27:25,637
landowners, and with another developer.

3715
03:27:34,782 --> 03:27:36,384
We would have passed it before they

3716
03:27:36,384 --> 03:27:40,722
heard it. So I have texts and emails back

3717
03:27:40,722 --> 03:27:45,522
and forth with the Admin, so I can

3718
03:27:47,528 --> 03:27:50,799
tell that the amendment that Council

3719
03:27:50,799 --> 03:27:52,734
Member Carvalho put in is a reflection

3720
03:27:52,734 --> 03:27:54,869
of what happened with that.

3721
03:27:54,869 --> 03:27:59,206
So I was happy about that. I was texting with the Planning

3722
03:27:59,206 --> 03:28:01,143
Director, what I really wanted was a

3723
03:28:01,143 --> 03:28:05,943
meeting. I did not get that meeting and

3724
03:28:06,680 --> 03:28:10,485
I looked at my text and I said I was

3725
03:28:10,485 --> 03:28:12,286
really uncomfortable which is my way

3726
03:28:12,286 --> 03:28:16,486
of saving saying I want a meeting.

3727
03:28:19,940 --> 03:28:25,940
So I came in here blind, but I will say

3728
03:28:26,301 --> 03:28:27,970
those large landing owners didn't know

3729
03:28:27,970 --> 03:28:33,508
last Friday it was coming here. So I thank one of the large

3730
03:28:33,508 --> 03:28:35,776
landowners who came in and I really feel

3731
03:28:35,776 --> 03:28:37,312
it needs more conversation and I

3732
03:28:37,312 --> 03:28:39,647
actually would like to have my own meeting.

3733
03:28:39,647 --> 03:28:41,315
I'm glad a couple of my Council Member

3734
03:28:41,315 --> 03:28:45,323
colleagues got that. I would like to meet with the

3735
03:28:45,323 --> 03:28:46,457
Planning Department to look at

3736
03:28:46,457 --> 03:28:47,925
Amendments that I would like.

3737
03:28:47,925 --> 03:28:50,327
But I'm glad that it worked in the main

3738
03:28:50,327 --> 03:28:54,650
one, the big one that made it in there.

3739
03:28:54,650 --> 03:28:57,534
So I really would like to move to

3740
03:28:57,534 --> 03:29:00,538
defer, if these people who are the most

3741
03:29:00,538 --> 03:29:03,541
likely to be developments did not even

3742
03:29:03,541 --> 03:29:07,412
know it was on in front of the Council

3743
03:29:07,412 --> 03:29:09,280
until last Friday, when I communicated

3744
03:29:09,280 --> 03:29:11,617
with them, I would say they haven't had

3745
03:29:11,617 --> 03:29:14,352
enough time. I'm thankful to the one that

3746
03:29:14,352 --> 03:29:19,152
really did work with Planning that got the

3747
03:29:19,690 --> 03:29:21,359
Amendment that Council Member Carvalho

3748
03:29:21,359 --> 03:29:24,695
put in, that I think is very important.

3749
03:29:24,695 --> 03:29:28,166
I'm not ready. So I would like to move to

3750
03:29:28,166 --> 03:29:30,166
defer. >> Second.

3751
03:29:36,307 --> 03:29:41,707
>> Roll-call vote on deferment. >> On the deferment to the

3752
03:29:44,115 --> 03:29:44,781
next Committee meeting.

3753
03:29:44,781 --> 03:29:45,649
>> Council Member Carvalho? >> No.

3754
03:29:45,649 --> 03:29:47,985
>> Council Member Cowden? >> Yes.

3755
03:29:47,985 --> 03:29:50,385
>> Council Member Kaneshiro? >> Aye.

3756
03:29:50,856 --> 03:29:53,256
>> Council Member Kuali'i? >> Aye.

3757
03:29:53,590 --> 03:29:55,990
>> Committee Chair Bulosan? >> No.

3758
03:29:58,796 --> 03:30:01,196
>> 3 ayes. Motion is deferred.

3759
03:30:03,867 --> 03:30:06,700
Sorry, motion to defer is passed.

3760
03:30:06,700 --> 03:30:09,607
So we'll have a Committee meeting in

3761
03:30:09,607 --> 03:30:13,207
two weeks. >> That concludes the Planning

3762
03:30:15,346 --> 03:30:17,948
Committee meeting. >> I would like to call to

3763
03:30:17,948 --> 03:30:18,749
order The Finance and Economic

3764
03:30:18,749 --> 03:30:20,217
Development Committee, let the record

3765
03:30:20,217 --> 03:30:22,285
reflect that all Members are present.

3766
03:30:22,285 --> 03:30:24,554
Clerk, can you please read the first

3767
03:30:24,554 --> 03:30:27,554
item. >> Minutes of the August 19,

3768
03:30:30,160 --> 03:30:30,827
to 26 Finance and Economic

3769
03:30:30,827 --> 03:30:31,829
Development Committee meet

3770
03:30:31,829 --> 03:30:32,563
move to approve. >> Second.

3771
03:30:32,563 --> 03:30:35,299
>> Anyone in the audience wishing to

3772
03:30:35,299 --> 03:30:37,968
testify on moats? Any discussion from the

3773
03:30:37,968 --> 03:30:40,237
Members? If not, all those in favor signify

3774
03:30:40,237 --> 03:30:40,837
by saying aye

3775
03:30:40,837 --> 03:30:42,837
aye. >> Those opposed?

3776
03:30:43,307 --> 03:30:44,841
Motion carried Clerk, cans you please

3777
03:30:44,841 --> 03:30:48,178
read the next item. >> Bill No. 3000, a Bill for

3778
03:30:48,178 --> 03:30:49,380
an Ordinance approving a

3779
03:30:49,380 --> 03:30:51,182
Collective Bargaining Agreement for

3780
03:30:51,182 --> 03:30:54,182
Bargaining Unit 15 between July 1,2025 and

3781
03:30:54,918 --> 03:30:56,120
June 30, 2029.

3782
03:30:56,120 --> 03:30:58,520
>> Move to approve. >> Second.

3783
03:30:59,560 --> 03:31:02,560
>> Any questions from the members?

3784
03:31:02,325 --> 03:31:03,861
Anyone in the audience wishing to

3785
03:31:03,861 --> 03:31:06,861
testify? Seeing none, any discussion

3786
03:31:07,865 --> 03:31:09,800
from the members?

3787
03:31:09,800 --> 03:31:12,335
If not, roll-call vote. >> Council Member Bulosan?

3788
03:31:12,335 --> 03:31:13,470
>> Aye. >> Council Member Carvalho?

3789
03:31:13,470 --> 03:31:14,806
>> A. >> Council Member Cowden?

3790
03:31:14,806 --> 03:31:16,340
>> Aye. >> Council Member Holland?

3791
03:31:16,340 --> 03:31:17,741
>> Aye. >> Council Member Kuali'i?

3792
03:31:17,741 --> 03:31:19,210
>> Aye. >> Council Chair Rapozo?

3793
03:31:19,210 --> 03:31:21,144
>> Aye. >> Committee Chair Kaneshiro?

3794
03:31:21,144 --> 03:31:23,144
>> Aye. >> Motion passes.

3795
03:31:24,881 --> 03:31:29,419
>> And our final item. >> Bill No. 3001, a Bill for

3796
03:31:29,419 --> 03:31:31,819
an Ordinance amending Ordinance

3797
03:31:32,355 --> 03:31:33,291
No. B-2026-917 relating to the

3798
03:31:33,291 --> 03:31:36,427
Operating Budget of the County of Kaua'i

3799
03:31:36,427 --> 03:31:39,563
, State of Hawai'i for the Fiscal Year

3800
03:31:39,563 --> 03:31:41,963
July 1st, 2026, through June 30 2027

3801
03:31:44,709 --> 03:31:47,709
by revising the amounts estimateed

3802
03:31:48,244 --> 03:31:50,470
in the [TKPW-FRBLGSD/] temporary voter

3803
03:31:50,470 --> 03:31:51,648
service center workers $350,000.

3804
03:31:51,648 --> 03:31:52,916
>> Move toe approve second.

3805
03:31:52,916 --> 03:31:54,250
>> Any questions from the Members?

3806
03:31:54,250 --> 03:31:55,652
Anyone in the audience wishing to

3807
03:31:55,652 --> 03:31:57,188
testify some seeing none, any final

3808
03:31:57,188 --> 03:31:59,989
discussion from the members? If not, roll-call vote.

3809
03:31:59,989 --> 03:32:01,458
>> Council Member Bulosan? >> Aye.

3810
03:32:01,458 --> 03:32:02,726
>> Council Member Carvalho? >> Aye.

3811
03:32:02,726 --> 03:32:04,995
>> Council Member Cowden? >> Aye.

3812
03:32:04,995 --> 03:32:06,396
>> Council Member Holland? >> Aye.

3813
03:32:06,396 --> 03:32:07,331
>> Council Member Kuali'i? >> Aye.

3814
03:32:07,331 --> 03:32:09,266
>> Council Chair Rapozo . aye.

3815
03:32:09,266 --> 03:32:10,467
>> Committee Chair Kaneshiro? >> Aye.

3816
03:32:10,467 --> 03:32:12,403
>> Motion passes. >> Seeing no further business

3817
03:32:12,403 --> 03:32:13,538
and hearing no objections The

3818
03:32:13,538 --> 03:32:16,206
Finance and Economic Development Committee

3819
03:32:16,206 --> 03:32:18,206
is now adjourned

3820
03:32:22,412 --> 03:32:24,412
[ GAVEL ]