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So I did this.
>> There's some interesting stories there,

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I bet.
>> There is.

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» We're ready.
>> Okay, fantastic.

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Okay, we're going to go ahead and start
planning commission meeting um

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for August 13th.
Um welcome to everybody. Thank you for

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being here and participating.
Um

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and I wanted to welcome our soon-to-be
or

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now soon-to-be or now? When does your
start date? Soon-to-be community

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development

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potentially.
>> [laughter]

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» Okay, maybe I maybe I jumped the gun on
there, but

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Hey Brad, we're happy to have you
tonight. So, thanks for joining us.

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Um okay. So, we're going to start with
the declaration of conflict of interest

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if any.
Excellent.

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And our first item, well, our third item
on the agenda is the public hearing to

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consider changes to 17-31-3
internal accessory dwelling units to

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comply with Senate Bill 284. And I'm
hoping we've got a little explanation on

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that before we jump into the
public? Okay, perfect.

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» Thank you, chair. Uh so, as just to
refresh everyone's memory, during the

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2026 Utah legislative session,
uh Senate Bill 284 was passed. Um

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it's titled local land use and water
modifications, and it essentially

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established new requirements for cities
um that by October 1st, 2026, they had

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to establish requirements uh for DADUs
to allow them in in certain

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circumstances. Uh and so, the state
statute essentially states that um

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cities are required to allow detached
ADUs on single-family lots larger than

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1,000 square feet, comply with health
building health, fire, safety codes, and

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also include a process for conversion of
legal accessory structures uh to these

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detached ADU
um

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structures subject to setback
requirements. So, the law does provide

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some parameters on what can and can't be
regulated.

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Um
but for the purpose of this discussion,

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I think what is important is that one of
the kind of key talking points that's

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come up um internally and um as we've
been looking at what the state is

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requiring is
um I think one of the kind of two

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highlights that I think are going to be
most of concern um

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are probably setbacks and then height.
So, how we want to approach that in

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terms of, you know, do we want to allow
um

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you know, these detached ADUs to be, you
know, up to 30 ft and and two story? Do

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we want to restrict that height? Uh and
then do we want to implement additional

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setbacks beyond what would be required
for a normal accessory structure? Um so,

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our very own Will Sovern Corn has put
together an ordinance for us based on

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what the state law allows for.
Um and really this this meeting we're

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hoping, you know, in addition to the
public hearing, to get some feedback on

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that ordinance to see where we can add
more um what we can tweak so that it's a

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better fit for Kaysville specifically.
Um we did post a public hearing notice

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for this item on the 27th.
Um

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and the general plan does not speak
explicitly in favor or against the

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proposed amendment, so it's considered
neutral.

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Um and with that in mind, staff is
recommending the planning commission

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send a recommendation of approval to the
city council for enacting the proposed

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text amendment as provided in the draft
ordinance. But, uh

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we would love to
hear everyone's thoughts and then see

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see what kind of discussion we can have.
>> Okay, thanks, Ann. Is there anything

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else we want to discuss before we open
up public hearing? Will, do you have

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anything to add? Do you want to walk
through it?

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» Well, yeah. I think maybe that'd be the
best thing to do.

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» I'd like I'd like to do that.
>> to talk about uh a lot of parts of it.

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So, what I drafted up and
I volunteered because staff was uh very

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minimal at the time and Jason was
concerned about the city

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being able to meet the October 1st
deadline that was set forth in the bill

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that was passed by the legislature
for

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detached ADUs
that a lot of communities, not every

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community, but but most including
Kaysville must have adopted or should

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have adopted by October 1st otherwise
you'll just be able to have ADUs

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detached ADUs without any kinds of
restrictions.

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So, that's why we needed to have this
ordinance done.

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You know, I've had a little bit of
background in this so I volunteered to

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to draft something up. What I drafted is
fairly minimal. What I did was I just

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kind of put the basics in there. There
are a lot of options on things we can do

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particularly with things like Ann
mentioned with heights and setbacks,

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design characteristics. There is a
there's a real issue about design and

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what you can do and maybe not do with
regard to design and we can talk through

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a little bit of that.
But then um

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Commissioner Toller sent us a draft
ordinance that to give credit do I

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understand it's your brother who drafted
that, right?

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» Correct.
>> Right.

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And I have to say it's it's a phenomenal
piece of work. It really is well done,

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well crafted and it goes ahead and
put forward recommendations I guess you

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would call it on a number of things that
I didn't include in mine that I thought

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we'd have discussion about. And then
decide which direction we wanted to go,

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but have you all seen the the one that
Paul sent out?

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» Yes.
>> So, there's a lot of detail in that and

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we I guess we got to talk about when I
say we I mean I'm I am on the planning

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commission, but I'm acting more like
staff at this point so that's why I'm

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sitting down here.
Cuz I I don't want to be the undue

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influence sitting on the commission
for the recommendation that's going to

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be made. But, we ought to talk through
some of those options and and see where

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we want to go with those and what we
want to recommend onto the city council.

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And it'll ultimately, of course, be up
to the city council to adopt whatever uh

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code it is we do on that.
Let me just say this as well. What I

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realized, first of all, the bill also
has a provision in it that says that the

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city should not put any undue barriers
on paraphrasing here, but undue barriers

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in the way to converting existing
accessory structures to ADUs.

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Um when I looked through the provisions
in our city code about the governing of

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accessory structures,
there's issues.

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Our whole zoning code has issues. We We
know that we've talked about it, but

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there are some issues
>> [clears throat]

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» with regard to accessory structures
that I think

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whether we were doing that ADUs or not,
we ought to really take a look at and

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think about making some modifications
and changes there.

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That's why you'll see on the agenda as
the next agenda item a discussion about

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uh making changes to our accessory
structures provisions in our code.

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A lot of what we do there will probably
also apply to ADUs or vice versa. What

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we do on ADUs may then also wind up
applying to accessory structures.

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But, it really became apparent to me as
I was looking at that and trying to

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decide, well, what do we We We probably
want to try to be close to whatever

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we require for accessory structures for
the ADUs as well. And it became obvious

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to me after reading it after a little
while and talking to some of the

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residents about some existing accessory
structures out there, I thought, ah, I

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don't think I don't know that that's a
good idea, particularly for ADUs, to

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allow some of those things. And really,
we ought to look at making modifications

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to our accessory um
buildings uh

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provisions in our code as well. So,
that'll be a separate discussion, but it

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is related to the ADUs as well.
>> Right.

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And timely, too, sounds like.
Okay.

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Do you want to walk us through maybe we
go through the original draft?

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» Yeah, let's do that.
>> I kind of think maybe after that we

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you can maybe chime in, but maybe then
we'll do public hearing and see if some

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of the things we hear might align with
what we we've seen in the green lines.

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» That sounds good.
>> Okay.

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» Um
>> Perhaps just a sorry.

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» Sure, go ahead.
>> Just a a point of clarification.

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On the on the agenda.
So,

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uh we have a public hearing.
We have a discussion

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of a possible
action to review accessory structures.

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But,
the commission is not being asked

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tonight
to approve and pass

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a draft ordinance. That would come in a
subsequent meeting.

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» Are you talking about for accessory
structures or for the ADU?

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» for the ADUs.
>> We would encourage you to pass on some

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type of recommendation to the city
council just because of the impending

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deadline. It's going to be on their work
agenda next week, so they're going to

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have some time to play with it. Staff's
going to have some time to play with it.

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What we'd like tonight is to get the
commission's recommendation on what

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you'd like to see in that ordinance just
because we're coming up on that

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deadline. And I think we need to give
the time to the council.

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Okay.
>> Um I believe the calendar would allow us

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um
I think

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both by Anne's comments and what we just
heard from Will,

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there are significant changes to make to
the draft ordinance.

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Would that Is that fair?
>> Yeah.

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» And and so,
um

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» Well, I think we'll have a
number of options and maybe we can

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discuss it more as we kind of get
through it because we can always

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recommend approval with
you know

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a pretty good laundry list if we want or
we can

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recommend as is or we can recommend
denial and maybe or bring back. I mean,

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we may end up we come back.
But let's see how far we get and

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and see if it falls in those parameters
of a possibility. Does that sound right?

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» Is that available
all along?

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Somewhere is
draft.

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Um
It's part of the package.

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» End of packet. It's so if you're on if
you've got access or laptop or an iPad,

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you can go to our website. I can walk
you through it to get to it.

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Um it's under agendas and it's in the
agenda packet for this evening's

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meeting.
>> Um Is that going to be on

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» So this is going to be up on the screen
right here. Will, do you want me to just

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follow you as you go through it cuz I've
got it up here. So

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» I'm being We don't have screens, do you
know that? Are you aware of that?

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» The screens are not working.
>> This is this is a little different in

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the than the one that's in the packet
because this one doesn't have the red

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lines.
>> Oh.

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» I think [clears throat] they can change
that.

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Let

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Okay, let's change. Do you want the red
lines on it?

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» Yeah, that would be I think the best
and then we can go through those.

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» Okay, you guys are giving me a whirl
here. Okay, so we're going to go to all

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00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,280
markup.
>> There you go.

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00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:13,000
» All right, so we've got that and your
screens are not working.

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» No.
>> Okay, I will work on that.

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» You should have this in your packets
though.

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» Yes, we can continue with that.
>> So yeah.

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So as you can see the city code already
had a provision in it with regard to

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internal accessory dwelling units,
which was something that the state

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legislature passed a bill in a previous
session and cities all had to allow for

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that. And so, we do have that in there.
I brought up some stuff and then Katie

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has drafted that into ordinance form.
And what she's basically doing here is

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she's taking that section and making it
applicable to all accessory dwelling

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units, not just to the internals.
And then it'll call out the different

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ones as you'll see as we go through
this. So,

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So, you So, just to go through this and
if you have any questions or comments,

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stop and let's talk about them. We have
the definitions of of what they what

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these are. The the detached ones which
are new, the internal ones which have

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existed now for a couple of years.
That and then it

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gives what the regulations are that need
to be complied with.

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And uh
making those consistent with

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00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:34,040
what is
now required under the various the bills

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00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:37,200
that have been put forward.
So, we get all the way down here now to

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where it says detached accessory
dwelling units number three.

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It says that
DADUs, I'll just call them DADUs and

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you'll know what I'm referring to.
DADUs are allowed on any lot or parcel

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that is 11,000 square feet or larger.
First point of discussion, the state

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code also then says that because it says
11,000 square feet in the state code,

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that does not prohibit communities from
allowing them on smaller lots if they so

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desire.
We There are a number of communities

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around the state that are allowing for
them on smaller lots.

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Part of the rationale for that being
that ADUs are a really kind of a easy,

198
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:23,120
low-hanging fruit way of trying to
address

199
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the housing affordability issue.
Uh

200
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you may not get a a tremendous number of
new units or or units that can handle

201
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:37,080
um people that need housing.
Um but it is a way and it's being viewed

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that way. It's being been accepted that
way all around the country and a number

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00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:45,360
of states have now
put provisions in place that allow for

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ADUs as a way to help address
the housing affordability issue. So,

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if that's the case, we have drafted this
right now with what's all what the

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00:15:52,480 --> 00:16:00,360
specification is in the state code.
But wondering if there's any appetite on

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the commission and then ultimately on
the council for allowing them on any

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00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:07,080
lots smaller than 11,000 square feet.

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00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:17,640
» I I'm a personally I would be interested
in that, but I don't think it would fly

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in our community. I think we'll be
really

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00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:25,320
um
I think this would probably shake up

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00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:29,880
enough
people in the community to allow it at

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11,000, but I mean it wouldn't offend me
to go lower, but

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» And having said said that,
you know, we can it can be adopted this

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00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:37,600
way and it always can be amended in the
future.

216
00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:42,360
» Yeah.
>> If uh if the desire so turns out

217
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:45,440
» I think it's a great starting point.
>> But there are communities many community

218
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,520
not of all I don't know if I could say
many, but there are a number of

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00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:52,760
communities around the state that are
allowing them down to like 8,000 square

220
00:16:50,839 --> 00:16:57,160
feet. Some of them don't put a square
footage restriction on the lot. They

221
00:16:54,880 --> 00:17:00,400
just regulate them by the yard area
>> Um

222
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:03,560
» by the the restrictions on lot coverage
and yard area.

223
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,760
» Setbacks and if it fits, it
>> Yeah.

224
00:17:03,839 --> 00:17:10,680
» fits.
>> So, Brad, I'm curious. What's Layton

225
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:10,680
City looking at allowing?

226
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,760
» Sure.
>> Yeah.

227
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,560
» You're going to have to introduce
yourself

228
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,600
» know who Brad is. You all you probably
don't know who Brad is.

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00:17:18,186 --> 00:17:23,520
» [laughter]
>> Thanks, Wolf. Um yeah, so um I I've been

230
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:27,400
going through the draft ordinance as
well as just uh the other regulations.

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00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:32,360
So, Layton City's also in the same boat
that we're in uh right now in the in the

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00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:35,800
process of drafting some regulations. Um
they're not planning on They already

233
00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:40,800
allow detached accessory dwelling units
um down to lot sizes of six 6,000 sq ft.

234
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:44,520
Um yeah, so to your point, Wolf, if
there's already a lot of other cities

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00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:49,280
that allow them at various lot sizes, uh
Syracuse I think allows them at 10,000

236
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:52,680
sq ft. So, you know, again, it's not
unprecedented to have them at a smaller

237
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:56,680
lot sizes, but it really is just up to
us to determine what works best in our

238
00:17:54,200 --> 00:18:00,520
community, like you had said, Chair. Um
you know, is

239
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:04,880
11,000 going to be the right Is that a
good starting point, or do we say, you

240
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:09,160
know, eight or or 10,000 sq ft? I know
that we do have some, you know, most of

241
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:13,320
our subdivisions kind of on the western
side of the city are larger

242
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:16,360
subdivisions. Um and then in our kind of
historic area, we're going to have

243
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:20,320
smaller lot sizes.
You know, as Will said, you know, we can

244
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:24,320
apply different setback standards. For
some For an example,

245
00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:28,160
um and also the other question is do we
allow them in just the rear yard area or

246
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:31,640
in the side yard area? Um some cities
allow both. Some say it just needs to be

247
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:37,120
behind the home.
Um and so uh I think also single story,

248
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:39,800
two story. A lot of cities
do lots of different things. You might

249
00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:43,880
have a a garage that's in somebody's
backyard, and they want to do a loft ADU

250
00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:48,560
on top of that garage, uh which then
ends up, you know, becoming a two-story

251
00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:52,040
structure. So, uh some typical setbacks
are, you know, requiring that they meet

252
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:58,440
the same setbacks as the residential
uh the the the primary residences, or

253
00:18:54,880 --> 00:19:01,520
having additional setbacks um up up uh
in addition to what you already have for

254
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:04,720
an accessory structure. So, one of the
things that Wolf had mentioned earlier

255
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:09,360
is that the state code does say that we
need to allow the conversion of

256
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:12,640
accessory structures to be converted
into uh

257
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:17,920
detached ADUs.
But one of the questions is, do, you

258
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:22,200
know, we might have smaller setbacks for
an accessory structure and we'd rather

259
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:26,120
have a DADU be further set back from the
property line because it might have

260
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:29,600
obviously a greater impact as a
residence than if we just had a shed or

261
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,680
or something like that or a structure
that

262
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:35,880
uh, you know, houses different
equipment. So, sorry, I just like bom,

263
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,960
you know, word
vomited all of that stuff to you right

264
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,120
there. But yes, there's there's a lot of
different regulations in your Right.

265
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:47,520
Well, if there's um, lots of different
ways, but yeah, what I've seen a lot is

266
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:52,040
um, before the state mandated this with
this most recent legislative change uh,

267
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:56,520
10,000 square feet's kind of been what I
see in the most in most cities.

268
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,640
» Yeah, the legislature, the original bill
or the original language in the bill

269
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:04,080
actually was going to be 8,000 square
feet.

270
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:07,560
But I think they they legislators felt
comments and pressure and they upped it

271
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,760
to 11.
Um, so that's what that's what's in the

272
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,920
state code.
>> Does anyone else want to chime in on

273
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:18,480
square footage
requirement?

274
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:22,800
» I I would say like I like you I I
wouldn't be I wouldn't have a problem

275
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:28,240
discussing that going smaller. Um,
one thing I do like is if it matched

276
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:30,880
a zone. Like for just for clarity.
Um,

277
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,160
you know, basically this would be R12
and above for us.

278
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:37,360
And but we can't just say that because
it could go all down to 11,000 square

279
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:41,360
feet. So,
um, if we were to pick a number lower

280
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:45,960
than
than 11,000, I would say like let's

281
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:48,640
match it to our normal zoning. Like to
an R10

282
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,240
is where I'd go, but
>> That's smart.

283
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:59,600
» Okay.
I [clears throat] I agree um,

284
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:03,400
with the chair that
perhaps

285
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:11,000
um,
we may have an AUD in a

286
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:13,520
a smaller, square-foot print property.
Um

287
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:21,160
in my opinion
having an AUD will devalue the overall

288
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:25,440
property.
And so

289
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:30,440
there are we have we have a unique
situation in West Kaysville. Yes, the

290
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:37,560
lots are larger.
But if you'll go with me on a quick tour

291
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:44,040
of Utah up and down I-15.
Let's think about housing west of I-15.

292
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:53,920
Are there million-dollar homes west of
I-15 in Provo?

293
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,920
Orem?

294
00:21:54,040 --> 00:22:00,920
Lehi? Maybe.
There's some in South Jordan.

295
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:08,600
But as you continue on through Davis
County, we have something very unique in

296
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:12,080
West Kaysville.
The property values

297
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:18,000
west
of I-15 are tremendous.

298
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:21,920
That's not the typical situation.
Usually one wants to be on the hill to

299
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:27,320
have their million-dollar home.
We have very very valuable properties

300
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:31,240
that we don't want to
devalue.

301
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:35,760
And so while I don't know that the
arithmetic would work

302
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:42,840
I'm not
Once we determine the setback and all of

303
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:50,680
the other things, if if if it's feasible
to have an AUD on a smaller lot

304
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:56,560
in the neighborhoods around us
I may not be opposed to that. Um because

305
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:59,520
I think that might be a place for this
housing to

306
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,760
exist or coexist.
>> So you're suggesting that it might be a

307
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,520
better fit for a smaller
>> If if

308
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:09,480
» lot.
I don't agree with you on it being

309
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:13,040
devaluing the main property.
>> Yeah, I would agree. I don't think

310
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:16,760
there's any evidence of that. In fact, I
think if anything there's evidence to

311
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:22,320
the contrary, which is
um ADUs actually enhance the value

312
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:28,480
because it's uh revenue a potentially
revenue generating

313
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:32,600
» It is a potential revenue item. Um
and I've

314
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:38,200
in my professional career I've consumed
a few thousand appraisals and made a few

315
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:41,360
thousand home loans and and I think that
uh

316
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:44,760
it will have an impact.
But again, just from my experience.

317
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:49,920
» Okay.
>> But I I do agree there may be a place

318
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:54,640
for it if if the back what's kind of
backwards arithmetic

319
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:58,520
with the setback, with the placement,
would it even work on a lot less than

320
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,840
11,000? I don't know.
>> Yeah.

321
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,920
» But I just wanted to To the extent that
that it would,

322
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,400
I'm not opposed to it. Plus considering
it in other

323
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,840
» Okay.
>> Just just an interesting anecdote.

324
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:14,560
Um you know, since we're talking about
that and about

325
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:17,520
So, um when I was in Salt Lake City as
the planning director,

326
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:23,800
um
the council uh wanted to and we began

327
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:26,920
the process of allowing for ADUs or
amending the city's code to allow for

328
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,800
ADUs.
Uh this was long before the legislature

329
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:35,040
or anybody was considering this. It's
probably around I don't know, 2012 or

330
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:41,520
something like that.
The um the the place where we got a lot

331
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:46,680
of acceptance for allowing for ADUs was
on the west side of Salt Lake, which is

332
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:51,640
generally smaller, less expensive homes.
The place we got the most resistance

333
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:55,880
was in the east side in the avenues.
That's where we got the most resistance

334
00:24:53,200 --> 00:25:01,760
and yet they had bigger properties.
Um you know, more ability to do that,

335
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,760
but it it was just interesting to me.

336
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,400
» I think that sentiment will come forth
in the public hearing.

337
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,160
» Right.
Okay, let's continue.

338
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:16,240
» All right.
Um,

339
00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:20,000
so they uh that
3B, they must comply with the building,

340
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,760
health, and fire regulations as
stipulated in the state code

341
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:28,120
in the bill
and then of course conform to the

342
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:32,520
applicable land use regulations for the
zone in which they're located.

343
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:38,120
Um, and those are specified in the
language back in our code

344
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:41,120
in the like for residential zones. And
that's primarily where we're going to

345
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:46,080
get ADUs in the residential zones
because they're residential structures.

346
00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:50,360
Um, and conform to those setback
requirements. Okay, now here's where we

347
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:54,320
get into the issue. This says conform to
the setback requirements of accessory

348
00:25:52,160 --> 00:26:00,200
structures in the zone for which they're
located.

349
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:05,080
I think we probably want to address that
and probably adopt something different.

350
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:13,520
And Paul, the
code that he submitted as an example,

351
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:17,720
does provide for some more restrictive
setback requirements.

352
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:21,880
Um, and and I think that would be
appropriate. One of the things with our

353
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:26,200
accessory structure code is that it
allows accessory structures to go right

354
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,400
up to within a foot of the rear property
line.

355
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:33,760
You know, that probably works for a
tough shed

356
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:36,640
or something like that, but it can be
problematic when you're getting

357
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:40,520
something that's a little bigger and a
little bit more involved like

358
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:44,360
potentially an ADU that may even have
windows on that side. And we we'll talk

359
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:51,480
about windows and design here in a
little bit, but you know, we we I I'm

360
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:55,000
guessing that we will want to consider
requiring an additional rear yard

361
00:26:53,720 --> 00:27:00,440
setback
um for the ADUs. Now, as Brad mentioned,

362
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,920
you know, there are some communities
that require them to have meet the same

363
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:08,040
setback as the primary the residential
structure.

364
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,840
That really to me kind of defeats the
purpose because

365
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:17,080
you're oftentimes going to locate those
ADUs in the required rear yard. If they

366
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:20,960
have to meet the same setback, there
isn't any place they can really go if

367
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:26,960
the house and the
is just meets that that minimum setback.

368
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:29,680
So, I think we probably want to allow
them they're generally going to be

369
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:33,120
smaller structures.
We may want to talk about if we want to

370
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:36,720
limit them to single story structures or
whatever else it is.

371
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:41,320
But uh generally, I think they can be
closer than that 30 or 20-ft rear yard

372
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,440
setback that may be required in the
residential zone.

373
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,680
But I think it's got to be more than a
foot.

374
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:52,560
Um but where we feel comfortable with
that

375
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,560
that may be what we ought to discuss.

376
00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,080
» Thoughts on that?
>> Thoughts on that?

377
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,080
» Do we Do we want to do that now or after
the public comment or

378
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,800
» I We can do that.
>> Let's do that.

379
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,960
» Yep.
That's a probably a good suggestion.

380
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:11,720
Okay, so that's one thing to be aware of
and to listen for to comments on that.

381
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:15,720
All right, the other part and talks
about being designed consistent with the

382
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:20,760
design of the single family dwelling.
This This is a can of worms.

383
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:24,760
And I'll tell you why.
Few years ago, the legislature pat

384
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:28,880
passed a provision that said for one and
two family structures,

385
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:32,640
local governments cannot adopt design
regulations.

386
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:38,160
Cannot adopt design standards and it has
a specific list of all the different

387
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:41,920
kinds of things like um
exterior materials and

388
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:46,760
um
you know, whatever you might attach to

389
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:51,360
it and and all There's a whole list of
things that it says you can't regulate

390
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:54,280
the design of.
And but it says specifically for the

391
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:59,000
dwelling.
All right.

392
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:03,720
» I have a I have a note for you and and
Katie there, please. And

393
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:08,520
um it's going to take more lawyering
than I could give it, but

394
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,440
um you talk you talk code
10 21

395
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,880
304.
>> Mhm.

396
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,440
» Well, if you were just referring to
section 3D.

397
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:27,080
Then if you go on to the next section
10 21 3044

398
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:36,840
A little three
a land use subsection may

399
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:46,520
require be designed consistent with the
design of the single-family dwelling.

400
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,360
» You're talking about the bill here for
the ADUs?

401
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,160
» The state the state law.
>> Yeah, for the ADUs. Yeah, that's that's

402
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:56,000
what I'm talking about here.
>> two those two phrases are at conflict.

403
00:29:54,640 --> 00:30:02,960
» They they are absolutely.
>> But if we can

404
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:05,480
if we in our ordinance may rely on 10 21
30443

405
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:09,480
» Yeah.
>> we absolutely should.

406
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:12,360
» So, here's where the dilemma comes in
and this can of worms that I'm talking

407
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:18,840
about.
In the bill that was passed that then

408
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:22,040
requires that we have the detached ADUs
it also talks in there and it says

409
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,800
specifically that
um

410
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,240
you can
you can regulate you can't regulate the

411
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,520
design
of ADUs

412
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:36,760
consistent with the section of code we
just talked about.

413
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:41,960
But then elsewhere in that same bill it
taught it says what Paul just talked

414
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:49,160
about. It said we can require the ADUs
to be consistent with the design of the

415
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,160
primary dwelling on the property.

416
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:55,200
Well,
how do you do that if the other part

417
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:58,720
says you can't regulate design?
So, it's

418
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:02,920
to me it's illegal, it's a lawsuit
waiting to happen. Somebody's going to

419
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,760
probably challenge it sometime, but
>> What does it mean?

420
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,520
» Go ahead.
>> Like what does consistent mean? So, for

421
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:14,800
example, I'm on a half-acre, I want to
add on to my house, they no longer make

422
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:18,560
my brick. It's not made anymore.
So,

423
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:23,920
I'm out of luck because my
my HOA requires a certain amount of

424
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:28,160
brick or rock versus stucco?
So, I Yeah, I think that's a can of

425
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:30,880
worms and I think that's vague and I
think it's

426
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:35,760
» And I'd say if we did get a legal
challenge, um the code is ambiguous and

427
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:39,840
what a court usually does with something
that's ambiguous, two things. Um they go

428
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:43,200
with the more specific and in my
opinion, the more specific is the list

429
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:48,520
of design standards that we can't
regulate. And two, in land use, they uh

430
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:53,080
interpret it in favor of the property
owner.

431
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:56,720
» All right. So,
what I would recommend, what I as I

432
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,640
thought about this, I thought what we
should do is we should rely on the

433
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:03,040
section that Paul just referred to,
which says we can require them to be

434
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,920
consistent with the design of the
primary residential structure on the

435
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:11,320
property.
>> Seems reasonable.

436
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:16,280
» But, I think we leave that language pre
just like that. We don't start listing

437
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:19,640
specific things that it can or can't be.
>> Yeah, let let's quote the state quote

438
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,600
the state code. We run a foul of that
other part of the state code.

439
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,960
» Yes.
>> By saying, you know, well, look, we're

440
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:30,560
just requiring them to be as the code
says, consistent with the design. Now,

441
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:34,680
the the
>> And we're going to get some questions

442
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:40,240
just like this commissioner had. They
don't make that brick anymore, but it's

443
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:45,200
consistent. It's not metal or steel or
bamboo or whatever the the homeowner's

444
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:50,720
thinking of creating the ADU out. It's
consistent with the rest of their home.

445
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:55,720
» But does that does that then conflict
with the idea of being able to allow

446
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:58,760
people to convert existing structures?
What if their existing structure is made

447
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,920
out of metal?
>> Yeah.

448
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:04,720
Yeah, I think that's
>> contradiction.

449
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:12,400
» That's a good good point. And I think by
leaving it fairly general as is

450
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:17,760
the language is in the bill,
um it leaves a lot of discretion

451
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,480
on the part of the staff
that'll likely be reviewing it and to

452
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,480
say, "Well, you know, yeah, we think
that's consistent and that's not." What

453
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:29,240
that then means is what Katie was just
talking about. If it's if it's vague

454
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,920
like that
and you get a couple of reasonable

455
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:36,560
interpretations, you know, let's say the
staff says, "Well, you got to put you

456
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:40,440
got to put orange-colored brick on there
to be consistent."

457
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:44,920
And the applicant says, "They're not
making that brick anymore, but I have a

458
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:49,640
brick here that I think is pretty close,
you know, or pretty consistent."

459
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:52,800
Um would to do that.
And if you have a reasonable

460
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:56,120
interpretation that to look somebody
that could look at that and say, "Well,

461
00:33:54,280 --> 00:34:01,080
I can see the city side of it and I can
see the owner side of it." Our state

462
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:05,440
code specifies that you go with what the
owner the applicant wants to do.

463
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:09,879
If it can reasonably be interpreted
different ways. So, that leaves us open

464
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:14,120
in that regard.
But I don't if we get any more specific,

465
00:34:12,720 --> 00:34:18,399
I think we're going to run a foul of the
other provision of the code. That that's

466
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:22,200
Katie, I don't know what what you're
thinking. You're the legal.

467
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:26,159
» Well, it would be my recommendation to
not um

468
00:34:23,879 --> 00:34:30,040
to not touch the things that that that
list that says we're not supposed to

469
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:33,159
touch, but um I was able to talk to
somebody at the league yesterday.

470
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:36,800
They're aware of this ambiguity and they
think that it will be addressed in the

471
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:40,760
next session. So, we may be able to
amend it next spring.

472
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:46,760
» I see.
>> Um as far as um

473
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:51,360
the existing accessory structures being
converted,

474
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:55,360
um what it does say in the state code
and what I think we would put in our

475
00:34:53,040 --> 00:35:00,120
ordinances to say you can convert an
accessory structure as long as you can

476
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:04,200
comply with all of the requirements that
we have for the ADU.

477
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,960
» Exactly. I think it says we must provide
a path.

478
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:10,400
» Right. Exactly.
>> that path may mean

479
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,480
you've got to move this one wall back 9
ft.

480
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,080
» Right.
>> You've got to change it from a metal

481
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:19,440
clad building to something consistent
with the home.

482
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:22,840
» Right. Exactly. If they can do that,
then they can convert the existing

483
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,840
structure. If they can't,
they would not be able to.

484
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,240
» Yeah, it's a whole different category
from a

485
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,240
» Okay.
>> um a mower shed to

486
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:36,120
now a residence.
>> Right.

487
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,120
» All right. Um

488
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,760
Next provision,
uh

489
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,520
Roman numeral five item, there may not
be larger in size than the single-family

490
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:49,160
dwelling.
Um we may want to be smaller than that.

491
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:54,120
A number of communities are. They put a
limit. They say it can't be

492
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:58,600
uh more than 70% for example the size of
the of the existing single-family

493
00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:01,800
dwelling. Or they may set a specific
square footage.

494
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:07,400
Cuz you may have some small homes on a
lot that you could put an ADU on and you

495
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:12,920
know, it if you have a percentage, it
may wind up being a really little ADU,

496
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:17,680
which maybe not is a problem, but it may
not be real reasonable either. So, uh

497
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:23,720
some consideration there. Maybe make it
a percentage of the size of the primary

498
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:26,520
structure or a specific square footage.
Um think that through a little bit and

499
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,040
see what we may want to do there, and
what what comments we may get.

500
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:34,320
» Okay.
>> Um not located in a utility easement, uh

501
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:37,800
may not be located in the front yard. I
think those are all pretty

502
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:42,360
straightforward, nothing to be
controversial there.

503
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:47,720
Okay, and then um as far as parking, we
are limited in the parking that we can

504
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:52,320
require for ADUs. If they're smaller
than 650 square feet, we can only

505
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:56,560
require one additional off-street
parking space to be provided on the

506
00:36:54,080 --> 00:37:04,520
property. If they're larger than 650, we
can allow two, but only two off-street

507
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:08,360
parking spaces uh to be located um off
the street.

508
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,400
Um you can see the other provisions
there about

509
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:15,200
um
displacing uh any existing parking

510
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:18,760
spaces, that they have to be paved.
Um

511
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:23,960
and that it has to have utility
services, um and uh talks about that a

512
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:30,080
little bit.
And let's see, where we at? Number five,

513
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:34,120
general ADU uh standards.
Um no more than one

514
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:38,040
ADU,
either an IADU or a

515
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:43,120
DADU,
located on a on a property. That may be

516
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:48,640
something to discuss, because there are
some communities that allow both.

517
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:53,280
They will allow an internal and a
detached.

518
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:57,600
What's the feeling of the commission?
>> I I think we recently had discussion

519
00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:01,160
here in planning commission
with a

520
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:06,920
community member who
was planning to do both. Yeah.

521
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:10,720
Already had the internal and was doing
planning for the next, so.

522
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,720
And maybe we'll circle back. Shall we
circle back to that as well?

523
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:20,760
Something to consider.
>> Would that issue be that

524
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:25,800
they would have to provide way more
parking, because you would have the

525
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,800
parking requirement for both.
>> Uh

526
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:33,480
» It's part of it.
>> I don't know if the IADU has a parking

527
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,560
standard. Does the IADU have I have to
look.

528
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,600
I can't remember now if the IADU has a
>> to provide one space for the IADU.

529
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,040
» What is it?
>> You have to provide one space for the

530
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,400
internal.
>> Okay, so yes.

531
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:49,000
» that I think it has to be not the
four spots. You've like you've got to

532
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,520
have
>> Can't be tandem.

533
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,920
» Yeah, it can't be tandem. Thank you.
>> Yeah.

534
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,640
Okay, one one additional for the IADU.
Yeah, and if you had

535
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:06,280
um both you'd have you would be allowed
to I think require the additional

536
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,280
parking as well.

537
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:15,880
Um then we talk about single-family uh
in in an ADU. That's you know, the same

538
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:21,360
as if in a single-family structure
um or unit. Um

539
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:27,120
that it has to obtain a valid permit for
renting um

540
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:29,880
and cannot be rented for less than 30
days.

541
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:33,800
That's to
you know, kind of address and prevent

542
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:39,440
the short-term rental issue
um which is an issue in some communities

543
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:43,520
uh many in fact.
And then uh there's the state code does

544
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:49,520
allow
the community to require that the

545
00:39:46,720 --> 00:39:54,400
primary owner of the property must live
in one of the units. Either in the

546
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:59,320
primary unit or in the ADU.
And we have that drafted here so that

547
00:39:56,360 --> 00:40:04,400
that court requirement would be there.
Um that's generally a quick rundown of

548
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:08,560
it. I think with some of the options uh
talked about there.

549
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:14,320
A lot of the stuff that that Paul's
ordinance had was with regard to a lot

550
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:18,520
of the design standards.
And we just talked about that about how

551
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:23,080
we probably need to leave that more
general rather than getting specific

552
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:27,200
because of the issues in the code and
how that would be treated legally.

553
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,880
And then
the setbacks.

554
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:36,200
What we want to do on the setbacks.
>> And I think an additional one is the 30

555
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:41,480
or 90 or some other number of
consecutive days for rent rental.

556
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,520
» Yeah, you can go up to 90.
Yeah.

557
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,080
» So.
>> We may also want to talk about things

558
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,800
like
there is

559
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:54,000
the state code does allow things like
massing and like the percentage of lot

560
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,960
area that can be covered by an ADU.
>> Yes.

561
00:40:54,400 --> 00:41:01,880
» Or by all the structures that are on the
property

562
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:06,720
and also things like window placement
and things like that and so we you know

563
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,840
we want to talk about that as well. If
those are requirements that we want to

564
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,400
put in.
>> Thank you.

565
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,160
» Yeah.
>> Okay.

566
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:19,200
» And and thank you for the
I can see that

567
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:24,280
what what I provided was overreaching on
parking. This is disappointing that you

568
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:28,960
can only require one. I know even if we
grant building permits we're always so

569
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:34,600
concerned about parking but the way the
state has brought this down that's

570
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:38,680
if it's 650
it's

571
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,680
one parking spot.

572
00:41:39,720 --> 00:41:46,920
» And I'll just say this is my own comment
on the parking. I think by and large

573
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:51,200
unless you have a
disparate you know like five different

574
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:54,520
individuals which is I guess that's our
definition of a family right? It is

575
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,840
five. We have five individuals living
there it's possible that you could have

576
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:01,000
five cars.
>> Yep.

577
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:03,800
» So we may only have one or maybe two
parking additional parking spaces that

578
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:08,160
means some of those cars are going to
have to park on the street.

579
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:12,000
I frankly they're public streets people
can park on the streets. I don't think

580
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:15,080
that's a problem or an issue.
It should be allowed. The problem comes

581
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:20,040
in the wintertime
when our city code requires no overnight

582
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:23,200
parking on the street. And where do
those cars go?

583
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:28,320
And that's that becomes an issue.
>> Right.

584
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:31,640
Okay. Well, thank you so much for A,
helping the city with this draft

585
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:35,080
ordinance and
and B, for walking us through it.

586
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:39,400
Um
I think that is fantastic. So, we're

587
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:43,640
going to go ahead now and we're going to
have the public comment.

588
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:48,840
Um
or the public hearing part. So, we

589
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,840
um

590
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:57,000
I'm going to say most of you all look
fairly familiar to this process, but um

591
00:42:54,760 --> 00:43:01,320
we'll just hold you to 3 minutes each.
If you'll just state your name, um

592
00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:06,400
and then
we just ask that you be respectful to

593
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:11,200
each other and um
to staff and we'll just go ahead and

594
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:13,720
open up to whoever wants to come
forward.

595
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,800
» Hi.
My name's Jill Dredge and I don't live

596
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:29,440
in the neighborhood in West Kaysville,
but I've been down there and I would

597
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:33,120
encourage everybody to go down to that
neighborhood and see kind of what

598
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:37,720
they're dealing with with good ADUs and
some that have been a little bit of a

599
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:41,280
problem down there. Um
one of the things that as you were

600
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:45,080
talking I think the property value for
the person that has the ADU can go up,

601
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:50,160
but I think the property value for the
people that are living within that may

602
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:55,560
go down because I've gone down there and
seen how it's changed backyards for

603
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:59,800
people where it's a two-level especially
and the windows are there and they look

604
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:03,360
right down into people's backyards. So,
I think those are things to kind of

605
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,600
consider.
Um

606
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:11,480
one of them uh the temperature in their
backyard is 10° higher because it's a

607
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:17,080
metal building and it's right by their
garden area. So, I think those are some

608
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:19,640
things to consider. Um,
and anyway, that's all I wanted to say.

609
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,240
Thank you.
>> Thank you, Joe.

610
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:39,000
» Lorraine Starkey, Kaysville. I hope to
focus on three things.

611
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:44,240
Number one, how the rules for new ADUs
or detached ADUs will be enforced.

612
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:49,480
Number two, what happens to the lot
structures that do not cleanly fit the

613
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:53,800
new rules. And number three, what
happens if Kaysville is not ready by

614
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:58,520
October 1st.
So, let's start with enforcement. What

615
00:44:55,480 --> 00:45:02,120
if we do that? The rules matter
when they're enforced. Today, we have

616
00:45:00,720 --> 00:45:06,280
residents that are pointing to
structures in their neighborhoods,

617
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:10,960
two-story garage apartment built on a
foot from the property line, accessory

618
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:15,400
buildings the size of commercial storage
units,

619
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:20,760
a rear addition facing the major street,
all that went through city staff,

620
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:25,480
planning commission, city council
approved. It is this is not

621
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:32,320
hypothetical, it happened here in
Kaysville under today's codes. There are

622
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:37,400
some severely challenged
neighbors in um, Utah's home town.

623
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:42,760
A citizen letter to the commission
describes this in particular, structures

624
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:47,360
that are approved in spite of the
existing restrictions on detached

625
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:51,760
accessory dwelling units.
I would invite all each of you to review

626
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:57,120
this letter carefully.
My question directly is, as the

627
00:45:54,960 --> 00:46:01,560
standards are adopted, what is our
enforcement plan? Will there be

628
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:06,520
inspections periodically? Will the city
retire

629
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:13,040
rely entirely on neighbors to file
complaints after the fact? Does the code

630
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:19,480
enforcement have the staffing today
to handle the expected increase in ADU

631
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:26,360
applications? Will the city commit today
to publicly track and report the permits

632
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:31,640
that are issued for ADUs each year so
that we can watch and monitor the

633
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:34,840
cumulative effect over time instead of
dif-

634
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:40,320
discovering it lot by lot as we're
experiencing today? Number two,

635
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:46,640
non-conforming lots, ex- existing
structures. Not every lot has a clean

636
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:52,320
1,000 square foot. We have corner lots,
flag lots.

637
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:56,320
What if we clarify eligibility today
for the structures that are built under

638
00:46:54,080 --> 00:47:00,800
the old rules? Are they grandfathered
without question?

639
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:06,720
Um or is there a re- view process?
Finally, the timing. If Kaysville does

640
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:11,040
not have a finalized
objective standards before the the

641
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:16,240
deadline, what is our fallback? Will we
default to the bare minimum?

642
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:20,920
Is it possible to pause the ADUs
approval until the local standards are

643
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:26,120
firmly in place? I urge our commission
not to let the deadline approach and

644
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:30,680
arrive without clear answers.
We do have authority. May I respectfully

645
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:35,840
request that our commission use every
ounce of this authority to establish

646
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:42,560
appropriate codes and staffing, whatever
is to see and make sure that whatever

647
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,000
is enforced.
Thank you.

648
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:56,680
» And then the downside of Rambo.
>> My name is Laurie Cragan and I live in

649
00:47:54,320 --> 00:48:01,680
the Old Mill Farms neighborhood. On May
6th of this year, 3 months ago, the

650
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:05,920
state of Utah mandated that Kaysville
must now permit detached accessory

651
00:48:03,720 --> 00:48:12,200
dwellings. Up until this point in time,
they were not allowed, only IADUs. I am

652
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:17,400
the owner of a 1,500 sq ft IADU attached
the back of my third car garage and

653
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:20,960
understand how valuable it can be. I
also understand, having grown children

654
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:25,760
who need housing as I have my son's
family of five living in my basement. We

655
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:29,600
are grateful to have had the space to
offer in times of need. The city of

656
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:34,040
Kaysville has the opportunity to do
something monumental for its residents

657
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:37,640
in considering the changes to section
17-31-3.

658
00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:40,800
There are things that the state has
mandated to be included in this new

659
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:45,040
ordinance, but there are also
substantial list of things Kaysville

660
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:48,240
still has power to regulate.
While I appreciate the work that has

661
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:54,520
gone into the draft in the packet, it is
sorely lacking in many items. Utah code

662
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:58,840
section 1-21-3044
gives the city the ability to still

663
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:02,840
regulate many things about these DADUs.
To name a few, size, dimension, height,

664
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:07,200
maximum lot coverage, setbacks from
property lines, window orientation,

665
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:11,640
architectural design consistency with
the primary residence, and 90-day rental

666
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:16,000
term, owner occupancy, parking
placement, so much that can still be

667
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:20,000
written into the document and tied up.
We need specifics spelled out with

668
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:28,760
diagrams of where these DADUs can be
placed on lots so there is no confusion.

669
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:35,160
I have a 2,400 sq ft 30-ft high steel
pole barn in the property right behind

670
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:38,680
mine, 10 ft from my property line.
Due to the accessory structures code

671
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:42,640
requirements on the books right now, it
was permitted by the city and it was

672
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:46,120
built last summer. The intention
intention of the property owner is to

673
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:50,600
work on his truck on the lower level and
build a residence on the top level for

674
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:55,840
family. This commercial-looking building
is in my neighborhood. Privacy we once

675
00:49:53,320 --> 00:50:00,040
enjoyed is gone as I now have four large
clear windows staring into my property.

676
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:04,600
There are two more of these still
buildings on one neighbor's property and

677
00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:10,760
another neighbor is in the process of
building a 2,700 square foot 29 foot

678
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:14,800
high building on a corner lot right next
to the main street our neighborhood uses

679
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:19,400
to go about our lives. It is obvious
that our current accessory building code

680
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:24,160
needs to be looked at and revised. You
have one chance to get this right for

681
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,920
all the property owners of Kaysville. We
are counting on you to keep our

682
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:30,960
neighborhoods beautiful and
aesthetically pleasing. Please send the

683
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:35,080
draft included in the packet back for a
review and meet again in 2 weeks with a

684
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:39,120
more complete draft. Please give us the
residents another chance for public

685
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:44,080
comment on that revised draft before
giving it to the council. I understand

686
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:48,760
there is an October 1st deadline.
That we must have items spelled out more

687
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:52,480
clearly and specific detail. It's been
mandated by the state but there's many

688
00:50:50,720 --> 00:50:56,840
ways that we can make these DADUs
acceptable. Thank you.

689
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,840
» Thank you.

690
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:13,240
» My name is Susan Harris.
>> I sent oh

691
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:17,120
» Sorry.
>> Can you say your name again, ma'am?

692
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:21,320
» Susan Harris and I sent a a letter to
all of you a few days ago.

693
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:24,080
Um I spent hours going through that new
law because frankly it scares me to

694
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:29,000
death.
Cuz I can just as she just said, our

695
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:32,120
neighborhood has changed and I'm not
right in that neighborhood. I'm a little

696
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:35,640
further away but
for

697
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:39,120
existing code
I mean I don't understand either why

698
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:44,160
there's a 30 foot building in anyone's
backyard but um

699
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:48,560
I just I'm really concerned about where
this could all go and so and I'm kind of

700
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:53,280
really disgruntled that like there's
something to propose

701
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:56,600
to like the council before you even get
impact from the public. I think that's

702
00:51:54,840 --> 00:52:00,240
kind of weird. Like shouldn't you hear
what we have to say and then work

703
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:04,200
something and send it to the council?
Cuz, you know, what if we had an idea or

704
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:10,400
you or something? So.
Um I'm one of those who that neighbor

705
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:14,440
I'm the one that has the neighbor's ADU
a foot off my property line.

706
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:18,840
And I measured it.
And that was the wall. That's not even

707
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:23,440
overhang. And so, code
somewhere like didn't work.

708
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:28,000
And that's kind of I think the fear as
even like what we have in place is

709
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:32,800
concerning. And I think it needs to be
reviewed and And as this dear lady said

710
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:37,640
that we have to be careful when we start
restricting on what it looks like.

711
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:41,520
I think we have every right to give some
ideas or just even say it. We don't have

712
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:45,280
to go into every detail, but
there's only going to be one chance. And

713
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:50,040
the last of my letter, the one thing I
did say that I just would like to

714
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,040
reiterate again is

715
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:55,560
the intentions don't matter once things
start changing.

716
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:58,960
And if we miss, you know, that T or that
I,

717
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:03,440
then we have, you know, 30-ft buildings
in the backyard of everything. And the

718
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:08,600
neighborhood that we all bought into and
spent hundreds of thousands of dollars

719
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,200
changes dramatically.
And this could go berserk. Like

720
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:15,680
everybody could come in and want to do
this.

721
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:20,080
Maybe 20, maybe 30. And it will
probably, you know, increase over time.

722
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:24,600
But I think we need to be very careful
right now

723
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:29,840
to decide what we want Kaysville to be.
And I I don't think every city has to

724
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:32,920
be, you know, everything to everybody.
We don't have to be a high-density

725
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:36,960
place. But we do have a state law that
is requiring a few things.

726
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:41,920
But I think we need to put things in
place so that it will work for where we

727
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:45,080
live, who we are,
and the things that we've already

728
00:53:43,080 --> 00:53:47,920
invested in this city time and time
again.

729
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,320
And I thank you for your time.
>> Thank you.

730
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:15,120
» Um my name is Gary Yuras, going to 422
Joshua Drive, and

731
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:18,960
I've noticed most of my a lot of the
people here are from my neighborhood,

732
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:21,880
and I there's a reason why, and and it's
been expressed tonight that there's been

733
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:26,320
a lot of things occur in our
neighborhood that in our opinion should

734
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:31,440
not have been allowed to happen.
And and I think part of it is

735
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:35,360
enforcement, part of it is the standards
in your zoning ordinance. We need to, as

736
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:39,240
Will said, look at the accessory
buildings, deal with height. We've got

737
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:42,400
two-story accessory buildings with
windows that look down in people's

738
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:46,880
property.
I feel my heart breaks for the Cragans,

739
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:49,920
you know, they've invested a lot of
money in their property, and now they've

740
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:54,040
got a two-story building sitting there
with windows. Their privacy has been

741
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:58,520
destroyed. That should not happen to
people in this community.

742
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:02,800
Um I think that
the accessory unit should not be in

743
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:07,160
two-story buildings. I think they should
be limited to single story. In fact, I

744
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:11,680
think there should be no accessory
buildings in

745
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:16,680
over one story high, just to provide the
the atmosphere and the massing within

746
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:20,600
within our community. I think there
should be no windows

747
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:23,960
uh to the adjacent property.
You know, I I think you use a standard

748
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:29,000
of if you're sitting in an adjacent
property looking at one of these

749
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:33,520
residential units should be viewed as a
looked at as a shed or a garage there,

750
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:37,120
and so you're sitting in your property
and see my my privacy has not been

751
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:43,560
violated. So, I think that's very
important. Now, as far as the setback,

752
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:46,920
I think these are residential dwellings.
I think that should have the 8-ft

753
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:50,640
setback that a typical residential
dwelling should have because think of it

754
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:55,200
for a minute. If you get two property
owners put two units there back

755
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:59,320
back-to-back, if you use the foot
setback, you got a 2-ft difference

756
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:03,320
between those buildings.
And in our residential subdivisions,

757
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:07,920
we're saying there should be at least 16
ft between a residential dwellings.

758
00:56:05,480 --> 00:56:10,360
Well, that should apply to the
uh

759
00:56:08,560 --> 00:56:13,120
the ADUs or
whatever you call them.

760
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:17,160
Sorry about that.
Um also, I agree strongly that it should

761
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:21,400
meet the design standards of the
existing buildings. And I yeah, you can

762
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:26,080
talk about conflicts, but I think you
need to make sure that that meets that.

763
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:29,640
And I I think there is not a conflict
there. The state statute says that you

764
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:33,200
can make it meet there. You're not
dictating what it has to be. You're just

765
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:38,440
saying it has to meet the existing. So,
I think that's reasonable.

766
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:42,080
I think the parking is an issue. Uh I
don't know how to resolve that. Maybe

767
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:46,160
maybe we have to go back to the
legislature and talk about that. But if

768
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:52,480
you got a 650 and you're saying there's
only one unit, well, think about it. Our

769
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:55,480
area does not have public transit. You
got a couple of movers into there. How

770
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:59,360
many cars is going to be in there in a
650 unit? Probably two.

771
00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:04,400
And so, one of them's going to be on the
street. And um as a city manager for

772
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:09,160
Woods Cross for a number of years, and
we put in a unit uh project, and we

773
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:13,600
missed it on the parking.
And that became a real problem. So,

774
00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:17,640
parking becomes a problem. Um I'd just
like to say one other thing is

775
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:21,960
enforcement is important. Enforcement
needs to happen. I'm glad we got the new

776
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:25,480
guy here because
you can spend hours and hours going over

777
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:29,960
this, but if it's not enforced, it
doesn't mean anything. So, thank you.

778
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,960
» Thank you.

779
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:53,120
» Is there anyone else who would like to
speak to the commission?

780
00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:02,080
Okay. We'll go ahead and close the
public comment.

781
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:09,600
And um
we can open it up to the commission to

782
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:14,000
discuss
um

783
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:18,520
some of the things that I'm hearing are
um

784
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:24,080
a lot of what we've discussed
the accessory code needs to be needs to

785
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:26,680
be amended, accessory building code.
Um

786
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:34,800
Enforcement is a great question. I think
that kind of lands on city where we

787
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:40,080
don't have a lot of staff
um currently to enforce.

788
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:44,080
Um
That being said, I think we

789
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:51,680
the general consensus is we still want
to have some regulations, so

790
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:58,680
um
um architectural standards as much as we

791
00:58:54,840 --> 00:59:03,200
can enforce sounds like it's kind of
um setbacks I think or something we're

792
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:07,960
going to want to address as well that we
can kind of

793
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:13,120
bump those up a little bit. Parking
is fairly set sounds like.

794
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:17,000
Um single story maybe something we want
to talk about in window

795
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:21,320
placement. So, I'm going to just open
this up to commission members to just

796
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:27,960
start batting out some ideas and things
that you'd like to amend from

797
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:29,640
» they go down, they go sideways.
>> There you go.

798
00:59:29,136 --> 00:59:32,520
» [laughter]
>> Yeah.

799
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,520
» That's what we want.

800
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:40,326
» Now we know Now we know what Mindy
wants.

801
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,326
Go in sideways. [laughter]

802
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:45,080
Okay, I think we're
we're good.

803
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,080
» Please.
>> Sure. Um

804
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:51,360
so
I've listed a number of the issues, some

805
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:55,160
of which I brought up, some of the
things that you have, and we've heard

806
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:57,960
maybe we address them one at a time. How
about height?

807
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,080
I don't maybe start with height.
>> Start with height.

808
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:03,800
» What's the What's the feeling of the
commission on the recommendation

809
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:06,360
» on setback, don't you think?
>> What's that?

810
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:11,520
» For me, I think it depends on the
setback because if you have a two-story

811
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:14,960
home and like
a lot of property around it

812
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,880
» Yeah.
>> and it would also depend on windows.

813
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:22,480
» I know a number
>> this overlaps and it entwines in such a

814
01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:28,240
complicated way.
>> Yeah, I know a number of communities

815
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:32,520
that they limit ADUs to single story.
Uh to me, that seems pretty reasonable

816
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:37,280
because they're supposed to be smaller
accessory structures to the main house.

817
01:00:34,840 --> 01:00:43,520
» My only question I have with that is
currently we have a fair amount of

818
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:46,360
IADUs because there's a breezeway or
something that are over

819
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,120
» over a garage.
>> over a garage. And we currently have a

820
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:54,760
lot of
you know, accessory residences that are

821
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:58,360
on a second story, and how how does that
play into that?

822
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:02,880
» to convert, like
are we stepping on the ability to

823
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:06,160
convert an existing
IADU?

824
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:10,160
» Yeah, I mean, that it may well do. If
you have like a detached garage and you

825
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:14,680
want to put one over
over the main garage part

826
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:18,960
it would limit that if you limited
single story.

827
01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:23,720
So, that may not be the best solution,
but um you know

828
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:26,560
you certainly don't want them 30 ft, I
don't think.

829
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:31,560
» Um,
>> is there a a requirement or anything for

830
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:34,800
setback from the in the main structure
of the house? Is there like a fire

831
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,440
requirement or anything like that?
>> There there's probably just the fire

832
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:41,400
code requirement, which I don't know
exactly what that is, but it's not that

833
01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:46,200
it's not real great. If they have
firewalls, if they have fire uh code

834
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:49,160
walls, they can be fairly close.
>> Okay.

835
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:53,560
» Um, but it they they have to meet that
fire code requirement to be close.

836
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:56,240
» So, we're looking at
a minimum distance from the main

837
01:01:54,840 --> 01:02:01,480
structure,
setback, and the height that are all

838
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:05,600
presenting some sort of an issue when we
go back to the lot size that we're

839
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,920
proposing to put them on.
>> Yeah.

840
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:15,040
» I do think
um, considering what the

841
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:18,640
what the residents are saying that we
should be generous with our setbacks

842
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:22,440
» Mhm.
>> from neighbors.

843
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:25,800
Maybe match existing home structure
setbacks.

844
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:30,080
So,
>> Thank you. I I agree with that

845
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:34,560
sentiment. We're creating a residence
with an with a auxiliary dwelling unit.

846
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:38,320
And and
let's keep it simple. It's not very

847
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:40,480
forgiving.
Um, would

848
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:44,000
» I will just say that if we do that, we
may be really limiting uh particularly

849
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,640
on
lots, you know, that just bear it that

850
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:50,680
just meet the minimum setback
requirement. That would basically mean

851
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:53,360
that you couldn't have
an ADU.

852
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:56,520
» may be some where
I don't have 16 ft between me and my

853
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,680
neighbor.
>> That Yeah, that's what it would have to

854
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:02,680
have. There have to be more room on the
sides.

855
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:06,920
» And and that's okay. One of the one of
the comments that we heard and I've

856
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:11,800
heard um,
some of our city council echo is

857
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:16,400
we don't have to be everything to
everybody in Kaysville.

858
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:18,920
We're a unique city.
>> So,

859
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:28,880
Well, is this correct in that So, for
side if we're talking side yards,

860
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:33,000
the minimum setback varies by lot. So,
10, 8, and the smallest is 5.

861
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:38,880
» Right.
>> But, that's on a 6,000 sq ft lot, which

862
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:42,560
wouldn't be
>> Which if we limit it to 10 or 11,000,

863
01:03:41,280 --> 01:03:43,960
that wouldn't be us.
>> No, and

864
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:48,320
» So,
>> And right now, accessory structures have

865
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:53,880
to meet the side yard requirements.
Um so, um in that case,

866
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:57,480
you know, the uh ADUs should probably
will should probably meet that as well.

867
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:00,960
I don't think that's going to be a an
issue in most cases. I think they'll be

868
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,960
able to meet those side yard
requirements. I think it's just the rear

869
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,880
yard that's going to be an issue.
>> is the bigger issue.

870
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:12,600
» What What What about like uh oddly
shaped lots or corner lots that maybe

871
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:16,320
wouldn't have such much of a backyard,
right?

872
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:19,800
» Corner lots are an interesting issue. Um
I have to tell you I was kind of beating

873
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:24,600
my head against the wall for a while to
exactly understand how our

874
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:29,440
um accessory structure requirements
worked on corner lots cuz the the

875
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:32,880
language in our code is
it's um

876
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:36,480
it it's not clear.
>> Mhm.

877
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:40,800
» Not clear to me anyway, and uh
I That is one thing as we when we

878
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:45,480
address our accessory structures, I
think we need to address that.

879
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:49,680
Um and clarify that and get it to where
we think it should be.

880
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:55,320
But, we can do that for ADUs right now
at this point. We can specify whatever

881
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:59,200
it is we want to. So, on a corner lot on
the side that's adjacent to the street,

882
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:03,120
normally, you're required to have a
20-ft setback.

883
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:08,720
Uh but, in some cases, our code does
have uh the ability to put um ADUs

884
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:12,880
within that those 20 ft. Or I'm sorry,
accessory structures. Do we want to

885
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:17,520
allow ADUs to go into that, or do we
want them to also meet that 20-ft

886
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:17,520
setback requirement?

887
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:24,680
» Yes, the 20-ft setback requirement
because it's a it's a dwelling, it's a

888
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:28,000
residence, not an accessory building.
>> And it's adjacent to the street.

889
01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:39,160
» Um the the chair um made, you know, good
notes, and I'm sorry if a couple of

890
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:43,120
these are redundant, but um I'll just
rattle off my list to um

891
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:54,200
I
someone someone maybe can draft how we

892
01:05:52,480 --> 01:06:00,360
deal with the
the unit over a garage, window

893
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:07,200
orientation, but
generally single-story.

894
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:11,240
Um in our language, I hope we put that
we we've provided a path

895
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:15,800
for
uh you to convert an existing building

896
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:20,080
to an
an accessory dwelling unit, but it must

897
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:26,640
meet all of the requirements of the
code. We've [snorts] heard the the

898
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:32,200
citizens speak about enforcement. I read
um the fine is $100 a day. Is that in

899
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:35,440
the ordinance?
Um

900
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:37,080
» Um I think it's out on the page
A, yeah.

901
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,160
» I
I regard I hope it's still there. I I

902
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:43,920
read it and
>> Oh, yeah, I got it right here for you.

903
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:48,760
» Okay, I read it and maybe forgot it, but
but that seems like

904
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:51,760
that gives it some teeth.
Um

905
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:55,000
and then we just talked about corner
lots.

906
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:59,560
Um
the um

907
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:05,400
window orientation
ought to be addressed. Uh minimum side

908
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:10,000
yard, I think this is a great guide
since we're creating residences.

909
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:13,360
And then, um,
I appreciate

910
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:17,480
uh, council's
guidance.

911
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:24,080
And we shouldn't vary
from the language of section 1021304

912
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:28,800
4A3,
but let's at least put that in there,

913
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:32,040
that it be designed consistent with the
design of the single-family dwelling.

914
01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:36,760
» Yeah.
>> Then it sounds like the legislature's

915
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:40,000
going to maybe clean that up uh, address
the conflict. That's what courts and

916
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:44,200
legislatures are for, but in the
meantime, we're going to use what the

917
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:49,560
state's
mandated to us, um,

918
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:53,600
and then the other thing that I heard
that I thought was interesting is, um,

919
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:58,760
pausing permits and
and

920
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:02,680
well, if you've taken the laboring oar
here, I'll let you address if that might

921
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:06,760
be
prudent, um,

922
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:08,200
» What was your question again, Alan?
>> Uh, just

923
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:12,120
» Pausing permits.
>> Pausing permits until we we

924
01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:15,080
» Oh, on the accessory
>> dwelling and this, if that's an

925
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:19,880
appropriate action.
>> Yeah, so the way that works, um, it's we

926
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:23,160
we call it a moratorium. I mean, that's
what everybody kind of calls it. Once

927
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:25,680
you've decided to do this, you have 6
months

928
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:28,880
to address your code and make whatever
changes that you want to.

929
01:08:27,440 --> 01:08:33,000
And people say it's a moratorium. It's
not really a moratorium.

930
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:38,359
What it is is you've just put everybody
on notice

931
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:43,279
that if they insist on going ahead
with building something

932
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:48,120
that is governed by those provisions,
they may have to come back and change it

933
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:51,200
if we change the code.
And most people will say, "Well, I'm

934
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,640
going to wait till you decide what it is
you're going to do."

935
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,400
» I see.
>> And so in that in essence it becomes a

936
01:08:54,440 --> 01:08:58,759
moratorium [clears throat] because
they'll say, "Well, let's wait and see

937
01:08:57,120 --> 01:09:02,920
what you come up with."
But there are some that will say, "I'm

938
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:07,120
going to go ahead anyway." And then if
it changes, they're obligated to go back

939
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:10,319
and change it. So,
modify the

940
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:16,400
» And is that And is that an option? My
understanding is October 1st is the

941
01:09:12,839 --> 01:09:21,279
state deadline, and if we don't have a
You know. code, then you get whatever

942
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:25,279
comes through.
>> why what we need to specify what it is

943
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:27,040
we want for the ADUs right now.
>> Yeah.

944
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:32,640
» Now, some of those same things we may
change the accessory

945
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:35,160
structures ordinance as well, but that's
not what we're doing right now. We're

946
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:37,920
going to just work on this piece.
>> ADUs, sorry. We can't We can't pause on

947
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:41,359
the ADU.
>> Yeah, sorry if I didn't make that

948
01:09:39,120 --> 01:09:42,720
distinction clear. That that the
accessory

949
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:45,553
» Okay.
>> Yeah.

950
01:09:43,533 --> 01:09:45,553
» [clears throat]

951
01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:54,640
» My thought I just keep thinking back on
the size of the We're talking about the

952
01:09:52,440 --> 01:10:00,440
level of the house, right? The stories.
If you are on a smaller lot, a

953
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:04,840
non-conforming lot, a non-typical lot,
would it would make sense if you were

954
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:10,320
spending the money to make the structure
to go up so that it would allow for more

955
01:10:07,880 --> 01:10:14,200
square footage or more parking or any of
those things, right? So, it would allow

956
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:18,680
for that.
But, like we have everybody concerned

957
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:21,840
about is um
your privacy in your backyard.

958
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:26,720
Personally, I live in a smaller home, so
they can see me in my backyard.

959
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:29,480
I'm used to it. That's just how it is.
But, I can understand that it's an

960
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:34,560
issue. I don't think it should be 1 ft
from the from the

961
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:38,960
» I wonder if if an appropriate setback
could resolve the second-story issue.

962
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:41,240
» Mhm.
Setback from the neighbor or

963
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:46,560
» Probably with the
combining window placement

964
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:49,960
and setbacks.
I feel like that would cause

965
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:55,720
» It all comes back down to lot size. So,
maybe that's where we should start

966
01:10:52,360 --> 01:11:00,280
is with the larger What size lot? Do we
want 11,000? Do we want 8,000? Do we

967
01:10:58,360 --> 01:11:02,680
want 10,000?
>> Mhm.

968
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:05,320
» Maybe that's a good jumping off point.
>> That's a good place.

969
01:11:06,080 --> 01:11:09,400
» I don't know.
>> Any comment?

970
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:14,600
» I I think I I Yeah, I think the chairs
that both the chair and I have got

971
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:19,480
commented that
if the arithmetic works,

972
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:22,120
fine if it's on a smaller lot, but it
may not.

973
01:11:23,040 --> 01:11:28,720
» Does anyone want to
make an adjustment to the 11,000

974
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:32,400
now?
Obviously, we can change it later, but

975
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,800
do we want to do that?
>> I think they should be allowed on

976
01:11:33,480 --> 01:11:38,600
smaller lots
if they can conform

977
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:42,600
to these setbacks.
>> Uh to whatever we set up backs that we

978
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:45,480
decide on it.
>> Uh you know, and I don't know that the

979
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:49,880
city would want to go this far, but
there are communities out there that

980
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:54,320
don't specify a minimum lot size.
Um they just say you have to meet the

981
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:57,800
the setback requirements, and if they
can meet them on whatever lot, it's

982
01:11:56,440 --> 01:12:01,080
fine. I don't know that you want to go
that far,

983
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:05,000
but that's an option.
>> Guess there are smaller homes on bigger

984
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:08,680
lots. Um
or make their lot look bigger just

985
01:12:06,680 --> 01:12:12,200
because they are a tinier home, right?
So,

986
01:12:09,560 --> 01:12:16,480
this is saying a quarter acre, just over
a quarter acre at 11,000 sq ft.

987
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:22,320
There are some homes that are on smaller
lots that might be able to conform to it

988
01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:26,680
somewhat.
I think for sure there would be.

989
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:29,680
Mhm.
>> What do you want to set as your minimum

990
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:33,680
square feet?
>> Or or zoning

991
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:37,480
district or
like you say, just

992
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:41,280
leave it.
>> There's a lot. There are a lot to do.

993
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:51,640
» Yeah, and I mean, there's always
whatever it is that you recommend now

994
01:12:49,480 --> 01:12:55,560
and the council winds up adopting,
it can be changed later.

995
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:55,560
» Yeah.

996
01:12:59,880 --> 01:13:09,480
» So, do we
we do we do we ask our our crack staff

997
01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:14,480
to take a crack at drafting something
for less than 11,000 square feet, or do

998
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:19,640
we go with the state-mandated 11,000
square feet or larger is really the

999
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:23,960
the issue and and we could look at what
they propose

1000
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:28,680
in 2 weeks.
Um or as the chair suggested,

1001
01:13:27,240 --> 01:13:33,360
perhaps
we

1002
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:38,120
we pro we we've given direction.
That's they've taken notes. They have

1003
01:13:36,520 --> 01:13:42,040
they've they've heard.
Um do we

1004
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:43,960
let the city council finalize it? That's
the

1005
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:47,120
possibility.
>> it's appropriate for us to give them a

1006
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:49,200
suggestion.
>> Mhm.

1007
01:13:47,560 --> 01:13:52,600
» Yeah, I think I'd recommend that you you
make some recommendations tonight.

1008
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:55,480
» And then they [clears throat]
>> Because I it sounds like the the

1009
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:59,320
council's going to discuss this at their
in a work session next week.

1010
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,480
» So, we need to give them the word.
>> your input

1011
01:14:00,600 --> 01:14:05,200
» Uh-huh.
>> There is a work session. Okay.

1012
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:07,960
» council. That's my understanding. Is
that right, Jason?

1013
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:15,960
» Well, just for the sake of a starting
point, I mean

1014
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:19,560
I'm curious if anyone would feel
comfortable with

1015
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:24,800
recommending
8,000 square feet.

1016
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:27,960
» 8,000's kind of where I've been sticking
in my mind.

1017
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:32,040
» 8,000.
>> Any other thoughts on that?

1018
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:37,160
I mean, part of me just part of me
thinks for the in the interest of time,

1019
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:46,880
you start kind of basic, start with
we can always

1020
01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:51,400
adjust, but
I don't feel like it's a one-time shot,

1021
01:14:49,440 --> 01:14:56,400
but I feel like
um if you kind of cover yourself, and

1022
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:59,040
then you may decide you want to open it
up more,

1023
01:14:57,880 --> 01:15:02,440
you could, but
>> There'll still be limitations to it. I

1024
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:06,240
mean everything else.
>> Everything. Everything else in addition

1025
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:09,560
to the lot size. So there will be things
that won't make it so that they could

1026
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:12,920
conform and get the the
video.

1027
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:16,800
So it's I think it's the 8,000 square
feet might add some flexibility.

1028
01:15:14,680 --> 01:15:21,520
» I guess if you have your
setbacks set, your height set, or

1029
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:25,400
whatnot, it wouldn't really uh
affect your neighbor. It would only

1030
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:29,560
affect you, your lot, if it was a
smaller lot.

1031
01:15:26,120 --> 01:15:32,040
» the way down to the RT zoning.
>> The what?

1032
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:34,480
» If you look at the zoning,
>> Mhm.

1033
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:41,640
» that's that's
smaller than an R16.

1034
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:45,320
» Okay. So well, is an R16 is
Is that 6,000? Is that what it says?

1035
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:49,960
» I don't know. I'm leaning more towards
the 10,000.

1036
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:55,120
» 10,000 square. 10,000 because you're
saying it 8,000 it's for everybody but

1037
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:58,400
the R16.
Looks like.

1038
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:03,240
» Yeah, R16 is 6,000.
>> Yeah. So

1039
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,240
10,000?

1040
01:16:04,720 --> 01:16:07,720
» I agree with that.
>> That's where I would be.

1041
01:16:06,240 --> 01:16:09,920
» Feel okay about 10,000?
>> Okay.

1042
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:19,640
» Okay, let's tentatively say that. Um
height, do we want to say

1043
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:25,360
um
single story, or do we want to

1044
01:16:22,760 --> 01:16:31,400
I would love to say single story, but I
just worry that that conflicts with the

1045
01:16:28,440 --> 01:16:37,480
existing structure conversion. So could
we have something that says single story

1046
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:42,640
except if there's an existing structure
conversion, and if so, then a lot, you

1047
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:45,920
know, that depends on windows, that
depends on

1048
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:50,480
I'm worried that we're going to
contradict our cell by saying single

1049
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:54,760
story.
>> Yeah, and and I I live on 5 acres, you

1050
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:59,760
know, any building I'm I'm building is
going to be 100 ft from my neighbor's

1051
01:16:57,240 --> 01:17:03,960
boundary. I mean, there there's
I can think of examples where a second

1052
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:06,360
story, you know, an apartment above
garage, things like that would be

1053
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:09,680
completely reasonable.
>> appropriate.

1054
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:13,440
» And so and so I'm I'm reluctant to to to
go with that. Now, I I want to ask it

1055
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:17,600
seems to me like a lot of
height and setbacks

1056
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:22,640
kind of come together and there's
there's a diagonal line and and I'm

1057
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:27,360
I know I've read it, but I don't have
the words for it and stuff and so

1058
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:31,040
if that is built into it
you can have a second story, but not 8

1059
01:17:29,440 --> 01:17:36,960
ft off the property like you got to
follow that that diagonal and

1060
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:40,920
people that are more into that can
flesh out the the details there.

1061
01:17:38,480 --> 01:17:42,640
» of naturally govern itself if we had
that

1062
01:17:41,080 --> 01:17:46,160
» It would it would keep that second story
from being right up on your property

1063
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:48,960
line and
that could be a reasonable way to write

1064
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:52,800
it. Um
if we were to allow second story. Right

1065
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:55,920
now, the current code and
I'm looking to the rest of the city

1066
01:17:54,120 --> 01:18:02,200
staff to keep me straight here cuz I'm
not sure I got it straight. But, um

1067
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:06,720
an accessory structure can go within 1
ft of the rear property line.

1068
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:10,360
It can be up to the wall can be up to 16
ft high.

1069
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:14,920
And then what if you go higher than that
up to a maximum of 30 ft, for each foot

1070
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:17,960
higher you go, you have to be 1 ft
further set back.

1071
01:18:16,280 --> 01:18:21,680
» It starts at 12, not 16.
>> 12, I'm sorry. Okay, thank you. 12.

1072
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:28,080
That's how that's how it works now.
But, if you you know

1073
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:32,080
» I think when something crazy
>> That's crazy.

1074
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:34,800
» our say our setback is
8 ft

1075
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:39,080
to start.
>> Minimum setback.

1076
01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:41,440
» Minimum setback is 8 and then we have a
height

1077
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:45,760
» 12 ft
>> 12 ft or something, and then it could

1078
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:49,280
grow from there.
Same language, you know.

1079
01:18:49,560 --> 01:18:55,240
» Which could potentially, the higher
you're wanting to go, you're going to

1080
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:56,160
run out of room. So, the smaller the lot
>> That's true.

1081
01:18:55,800 --> 01:19:00,000
» Yeah.
>> So, you're constrained by your building

1082
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:04,640
envelope by If you're wanting to go
two-story, but your lot's smaller

1083
01:19:02,680 --> 01:19:07,680
it's naturally, like what you're saying,
it might need

1084
01:19:05,560 --> 01:19:11,000
» You don't need to or might need to It
still has to do with the setback. You

1085
01:19:09,440 --> 01:19:13,320
simply just won't have
>> the option.

1086
01:19:11,480 --> 01:19:16,040
» The setbacks and the room in the
backyard to stay with your setbacks to

1087
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:18,680
go taller.
>> Right.

1088
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,840
» But with a smaller lot
maybe that's okay.

1089
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:24,960
» Yeah.
>> Yeah, just be one-story.

1090
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:24,960
» Yes.

1091
01:19:26,240 --> 01:19:30,360
» Well
um

1092
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:32,440
8-ft minimum
side setback?

1093
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:33,800
» Rear?
>> Rear.

1094
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:37,640
» Rear.
>> Cuz they have to meet the side setbacks.

1095
01:19:35,480 --> 01:19:41,560
» Yeah. The sides are already built in.
>> Or we we would specify that 80s.

1096
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:46,400
Our accessory structure ordinance now
requires that accessory structures meet

1097
01:19:43,320 --> 01:19:50,480
the side setback requirements.
Um the rear they can go within a foot,

1098
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:53,880
but if you make that
80s

1099
01:19:50,680 --> 01:19:53,880
» the 1-ft issue.

1100
01:19:54,200 --> 01:20:01,520
So, is 8 ft appropriate in the rear?
>> Yeah, is 8 ft Is that enough?

1101
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:05,440
» It's not much.
>> It is not much if it's a two-story.

1102
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:09,200
» Yes.
So, you start with 8 ft, and the taller

1103
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:11,320
you go, the closer to the wards the home
you're going to go.

1104
01:20:10,480 --> 01:20:14,320
» Go.
>> Yeah.

1105
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:16,040
So, 8 ft with a height of
>> of a 12-ft

1106
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:19,440
» 12-ft
>> Sounds good to me.

1107
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:19,440
» But 12

1108
01:20:20,120 --> 01:20:22,800
» I need a visual.

1109
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:32,480
For every foot setback.
>> Yeah.

1110
01:20:30,480 --> 01:20:35,960
» And can we limit that it's not taller
than the initial structure, the main

1111
01:20:34,840 --> 01:20:38,200
primary structure?
>> Yes.

1112
01:20:36,840 --> 01:20:41,640
» Yeah, that would definitely probably be
a good thing to have in there, that it

1113
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:46,000
can't be taller
than the

1114
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:46,000
» I want a big princess tower in the back.

1115
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:55,320
» I kind of like 75%
maybe 75% rule on

1116
01:20:51,960 --> 01:21:00,720
square footage of the original.
>> But would that be 75% of the primary

1117
01:20:57,360 --> 01:21:05,040
structure or the Okay. Yeah, as the max.
>> Was that 75 or 70?

1118
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:08,840
» So if you're saying you can't have the
If you're saying they can't be taller

1119
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:11,760
than the first dwelling, if you're in a
single story home, you can't build a

1120
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:14,680
two-story dwelling.
>> Correct. Right.

1121
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:18,920
» Cuz you're saying by
>> It would say that, yeah.

1122
01:21:16,560 --> 01:21:22,680
» But if it's a two-story on a smaller lot
and you don't have the room, it's going

1123
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:25,680
to end up being a one-story anyway.
>> Yeah, also true.

1124
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:30,040
» So that's the
That's the caveat.

1125
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:36,800
» Right now, if I
purchase a lot in Kaysville

1126
01:21:32,280 --> 01:21:41,560
in any of these zones except
the A1 A5.

1127
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:47,640
Um if I'm going to build a dwelling
unit,

1128
01:21:43,160 --> 01:21:52,960
my rear setback is 15 ft.
Is there reason to vary from that

1129
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:58,960
because it's an auxiliary dwelling unit?
>> It just won't allow smaller lots to

1130
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:03,520
to use the space.
>> And is that that Is that a problem?

1131
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:17,120
I I think sticking with these makes
a lot of I mean

1132
01:22:14,440 --> 01:22:20,560
that this is what people have expected.
This is the setback from their neighbors

1133
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:26,960
now.
So if someone start building a building

1134
01:22:23,560 --> 01:22:30,720
in the backyard that's not 15 ft, but 8
ft

1135
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:33,680
that's not what
it changes the character of my

1136
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:37,040
neighborhood.
I'd love to stick with what's on our

1137
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:40,480
chart.
>> But what about those people that have

1138
01:22:38,480 --> 01:22:43,040
that limitation that don't have a big
lot to work with?

1139
01:22:41,280 --> 01:22:48,680
» And I don't And I don't think you'd end
up with a

1140
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:51,120
I mean, we're limiting what can end up
you know,

1141
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:55,000
» At that point it's just a tough
pill to swallow, isn't You know, that's

1142
01:22:52,520 --> 01:22:58,560
like sorry, all you can build is this
damn tough shed.

1143
01:22:57,200 --> 01:23:04,040
Enjoy.
>> I I also think that

1144
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:09,400
maybe we're overestimating how many of
these units will be built. Not that they

1145
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:10,960
won't be built, but I don't
>> Right, cuz it's still a financial

1146
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:14,320
commitment.
>> It's still a huge financial

1147
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:18,200
» I wanted to look that up, you know, what
what percentage of properties actually

1148
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:20,920
have ADUs and it it's got to be
in cities that have allowed it for

1149
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:24,560
years, you know, it's got to be a very
small percentage.

1150
01:23:21,920 --> 01:23:29,560
» Well, you're looking at 40,000 to
pour the cement and do the electric and

1151
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:33,080
the water. Like it's a big investment. I
don't think they're going to be popping

1152
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:36,440
up willy-nilly all over the place.
>> One thing to consider is a couple months

1153
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:40,200
ago
I reached out to Farmington City about

1154
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:43,440
when they had passed their ADU
ordinance, just kind of get an idea of

1155
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:48,040
what they saw
once they had allowed for detached ADUs

1156
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:52,520
and when I spoke to their staff, they
were telling me it was a very minimal

1157
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:56,360
increase year by year. It was only a
handful per year that they saw. It

1158
01:23:54,760 --> 01:24:00,920
wasn't, you know, this huge influx that
they had incoming. Um so, for what it's

1159
01:23:59,360 --> 01:24:03,280
worth, that's that's what other cities
have seen.

1160
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:08,560
» Yeah, the league has been asking that
question and I think generally it's not

1161
01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:14,000
huge. There are some communities that
are seeing more

1162
01:24:10,480 --> 01:24:18,320
uh of an impact, but but it's not huge.
If you look around the country, it's

1163
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:22,880
generally not huge, but in some places
like, for example, I just was reading an

1164
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:26,120
article San Francisco
has been

1165
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:32,640
allowing has been permitting a lot of
ADUs lately and but that may be because

1166
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:35,480
it's so damn expensive to build in San
Francisco. That's about all people can

1167
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:38,200
afford to build.
>> And it's landlocked. Yeah, it's built

1168
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:42,080
out.
>> built out, yeah.

1169
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:46,600
» Interesting.
>> Yeah, I I was originally kind of wanting

1170
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:50,280
to stick to the
the standard setbacks and I've kind of

1171
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:54,240
come around to the idea that it can be
smaller just because this is a new

1172
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:58,280
category. I mean, at first I was like,
well, it's a dwelling, it's, you know,

1173
01:24:56,240 --> 01:25:02,400
the same same as other stuff and now
I've kind of realized it it's it is a

1174
01:25:00,360 --> 01:25:05,240
new thing.
And so

1175
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:12,560
you know, back to that argument of 15 or
something something less.

1176
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,560
Um

1177
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:17,400
I I I feel like it is a new category and
I would be willing to go a little less,

1178
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:20,520
but
I I I understand the the concern, you

1179
01:25:19,360 --> 01:25:24,920
know, of
this is going to change neighborhoods.

1180
01:25:23,080 --> 01:25:30,320
» If we don't want 8 ft, maybe we could do
something different like 10.

1181
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:35,080
Or 12, but I think when we get into 15,
yeah, we're just limiting who's able to

1182
01:25:33,720 --> 01:25:41,000
do this and I
I think that's a problem.

1183
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:47,560
» We're only limiting it to the extent of
what our current zoning is for a home.

1184
01:25:47,240 --> 01:25:51,760
» Yeah, and
>> No more, no less.

1185
01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:57,720
» But you have to consider that homes
don't that homes have a 30-ft height

1186
01:25:55,440 --> 01:26:02,560
restriction and these would not have
that. They would you wouldn't have a

1187
01:25:59,400 --> 01:26:02,560
30-ft home

1188
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:12,960
8 ft away from you because it has the
height restriction that go with it.

1189
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:17,960
» The what's what's been described, the
increasing

1190
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:17,960
» The increasing height, so

1191
01:26:18,160 --> 01:26:24,880
» Yeah, maybe the arithmetic will make the
8 ft moot.

1192
01:26:22,280 --> 01:26:24,880
We'll just see.

1193
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:36,360
» Is this the 12 ft
wall, right?

1194
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:40,000
» 8 or 10.
>> Like in the A1 area.

1195
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:44,680
Okay.
It might be a good idea also to ask um

1196
01:26:43,160 --> 01:26:47,000
our new Brad
>> Yeah.

1197
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:49,929
» what's going on in our new Brad.
>> Yes.

1198
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:52,920
» Let's ask our new only Brad we have.
>> [laughter]

1199
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:56,080
» What is working in Layton City cuz they
currently have that right now.

1200
01:26:55,520 --> 01:27:00,440
» It's a great idea.
>> I know Farmington I don't think they

1201
01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:03,520
have more than a hundred of these in
their whole entire city. So.

1202
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:06,720
» That they know of.
>> That Well, and that that would probably

1203
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:10,040
be touche for Kaysville City.
>> Cuz I'll tell you in every community

1204
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:12,120
that I'm aware of there are ADUs there
that

1205
01:27:11,480 --> 01:27:15,000
» They don't have to.
>> that were never really permitted.

1206
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:17,680
» sure. So yeah, I know.
>> I'll tell you if you want to speak

1207
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:22,680
» If you want to speak to maybe what
Layton's setbacks are.

1208
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:26,000
» Come on up Brad. Do you have any any
>> I mean you're here so

1209
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:30,080
» input on setbacks or height?
>> Yeah, and I'm happy to do this at the

1210
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:34,280
same time I don't work here yet and so I
do want to be respectful of your debate

1211
01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:37,640
as well as the general public and their
comments and so

1212
01:27:35,840 --> 01:27:40,320
um that's why I've been kind of just
taking everything in and I don't want to

1213
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:43,920
jump chime in
and make sure that everybody else's

1214
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:49,360
comments were were
um so just to hear where

1215
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:53,200
Layton City does allow um
detached accessory dwelling units in the

1216
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:56,280
side yard and in the rear yard.
Um

1217
01:27:54,600 --> 01:27:59,040
for if they're in the side yard to
Commissioner Fowler's point, they have

1218
01:27:57,760 --> 01:28:04,560
to meet the same setbacks as the
residence. Um they have to meet the same

1219
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:08,880
rear setback as the residence.
And then if it's a

1220
01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:13,240
So you know, for if it's a single story
same minimum side setbacks as the

1221
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:16,200
primary dwelling, same rear setback as
the primary dwelling. If it's a

1222
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:20,280
two-story, then it's a 10-ft side
setback, but then it's still the same

1223
01:28:18,160 --> 01:28:24,400
rear setback. If it's just in the rear
yard area,

1224
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:28,120
then it's a minimum side setback of 5 ft
if it's a single story or 10 10 ft if

1225
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:31,520
it's a two-story.
And then for

1226
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:36,360
the rear yard, it would be a rear yard
setback of 10 ft. So, it's kind of your

1227
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:41,080
point of sure a lot. Um
and also or or if it's two stories, then

1228
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:45,240
20 ft. So, like you know, maybe you
push your pattern having that distance

1229
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:49,960
setback further from that rear property
line. Those are some things to consider.

1230
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:52,800
Also, I was you know, just mentioning to
Jason that

1231
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:57,960
some of the concerns and and I
understand the concerns that were

1232
01:28:54,520 --> 01:29:02,520
mentioned about the design criteria.
The state has really kind of put us in a

1233
01:28:59,560 --> 01:29:04,720
tough position because this the the
part of state code that they have

1234
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:08,080
referenced
and the building materials that we

1235
01:29:06,440 --> 01:29:11,560
cannot and the design standards that we
can't regulate, one of those things is

1236
01:29:10,000 --> 01:29:15,160
the placement of windows.
And that's building materials. And so,

1237
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,040
some of the concerns that were brought
up and I think that they're valid

1238
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:20,520
concerns about what the materials look
like and where those windows are going

1239
01:29:19,520 --> 01:29:24,880
to be.
Our hands are tied at this at the moment

1240
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:28,440
for where we can replace some of those
things, you know. And so, with that,

1241
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:30,080
it gets kind of back to what we've all
been saying

1242
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:33,200
» Okay.
>> kind of limited on height,

1243
01:29:31,720 --> 01:29:38,760
the location when it comes to setbacks
and probably the size of the ADU at this

1244
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:42,080
point, um you know, unless you know, in
this next legislative session they give

1245
01:29:40,360 --> 01:29:44,720
us a little bit more
uh ability to to regulate those things

1246
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:49,600
more.
>> Thank you. So, that's an interesting uh

1247
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:54,680
way to do it where if it's a one-story,
this, if it's a two-story, that.

1248
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:57,600
Rather than add a foot, gain a foot,
sort of thing.

1249
01:29:56,320 --> 01:30:02,160
» It'd be a little easier to keep track.
>> That might be a little little simpler.

1250
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:06,040
Yeah.
>> Yeah.

1251
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:11,200
» Thank you. And um
as we do our drafting, I hope we will

1252
01:30:08,440 --> 01:30:19,280
please use the language the state did
provide in 10-21-304-4

1253
01:30:15,880 --> 01:30:24,960
where we may take into account the
proximity of property lines,

1254
01:30:21,800 --> 01:30:29,400
easements, and window orientation.
Let's Let's Let's put that in our

1255
01:30:26,680 --> 01:30:34,080
ordinance so that when things come
before this body or

1256
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:39,880
the building department, that window
orientation, particularly on a two-story

1257
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:45,000
structure, is a consideration, which the
state's provided us. We shouldn't

1258
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:52,920
exclude that from any draft ordinance.
Let's give ourselves the ability to uh

1259
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:58,240
direct as to that, and then also be
designed consistent with the design of

1260
01:30:55,680 --> 01:31:02,800
the single-family dwelling,
understanding the conflict.

1261
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:08,080
For now,
let's let's include

1262
01:31:05,440 --> 01:31:11,840
We certainly couldn't be
We're just including what the

1263
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:14,200
legislature's language is. They're not
going to

1264
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:29,840
» I'm wondering if we could um kind of go
back to the draft and just, you know,

1265
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:35,160
I made some notes as as you took us
through it, Will.

1266
01:31:31,640 --> 01:31:40,120
Um kind of the first question marks
for me show up at

1267
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:42,640
number three.
Um

1268
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:46,720
let's see.
D A D U's must meet the following, and

1269
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:49,880
then we hit the
Roman numeral three.

1270
01:31:50,240 --> 01:31:56,800
Does anyone have issue
pre

1271
01:31:55,400 --> 01:32:00,440
to that to that
>> Three. Oh, good catch. Yeah,

1272
01:31:58,800 --> 01:32:03,440
that needs to be
Yeah, that's what That's what we're

1273
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:07,760
asking how you want to modify.
>> wondering if we just kind

1274
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:11,880
» through the draft and let us just kind
of say cuz we've kind of spelled out

1275
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:14,960
maybe what we're looking for and let's
just start pinning down some things and

1276
01:32:13,880 --> 01:32:16,960
if there's anything
>> That's good.

1277
01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,360
» that's not in there, we can add it just
so we can get to a motion.

1278
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:23,840
» Yeah, that'd be good.
>> Awesome.

1279
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:28,280
So, if we're we're on that Roman numeral
three and we don't want it to conform to

1280
01:32:26,440 --> 01:32:32,520
setback requirements for accessory
structures,

1281
01:32:30,440 --> 01:32:38,480
we want it to
um do we want to say

1282
01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:45,560
um have an 8-ft
rear setback for a single story?

1283
01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:50,400
» I don't know after listening to
our Brad,

1284
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,400
I'm wondering if we should.

1285
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:59,920
» Yeah, or or perhaps uh
chair, the uh

1286
01:32:55,720 --> 01:33:06,840
conform to existing zoning regulations
with the following changes. So, we we

1287
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:10,520
pork barrel this in and then you
amend

1288
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:15,880
however you wish from there like
10-ft setback or

1289
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:20,400
for single family and X setback for
two-story, but we start here.

1290
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:24,240
So,
>> So, you're saying each zoning would have

1291
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:27,760
a a different setback?
>> Sure, cuz that's what I bought per

1292
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:33,120
That's what I bought when I bought my
home.

1293
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:38,320
» But, I I kind of I know that's what we
>> latent's doing to an extent, right?

1294
01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:38,320
» That would be a little restrictive.

1295
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:48,080
» Cuz [laughter] if I'm in Mr. Packer's
neighborhood, I'm not, but if I have 5

1296
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:51,960
acres,
my

1297
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:58,280
minimum side yard is this. If I'm in
another neighborhood, my minimum side

1298
01:33:54,320 --> 01:34:05,400
yard is that. And so, I can expect when
I notice my neighbor starting to build a

1299
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:10,400
foundation in their backyard, that it's
about this far from

1300
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:10,400
my home.

1301
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:19,080
» I don't That's not how I interpreted
that, that we would just go straight

1302
01:34:15,760 --> 01:34:27,320
with the zoning residential zoning
setbacks, but that we would specify

1303
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:27,320
a smaller setback

1304
01:34:27,560 --> 01:34:34,360
as a
as a single story.

1305
01:34:31,680 --> 01:34:39,040
And then maybe if it's maybe maybe you
keep the

1306
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:44,520
the regular zoning setbacks if it's a
second story if there's a second story.

1307
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:49,760
Does anybody else Did any Did anyone
understand that differently than me?

1308
01:34:48,400 --> 01:34:52,280
I don't know that we're all on the same
page.

1309
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:55,240
» That's the debate we're having.
>> you're you're just trying to keep a

1310
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:59,960
universal
uniform throughout the zonings where

1311
01:34:57,320 --> 01:35:03,600
Commissioner Toller wants to be
conditional per the zoning?

1312
01:35:02,320 --> 01:35:08,760
Is that what we're Is that what we're
looking at?

1313
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,760
» Um

1314
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:17,040
Well,
I Yes, I think I'm I'm do I'm kind of in

1315
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:21,120
my mind just let's set a
a setback

1316
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:26,920
for single story, a setback for
two story,

1317
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:26,920
not conditional to zoning. Okay.

1318
01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:32,040
I tend to
That's where I was.

1319
01:35:31,120 --> 01:35:34,320
» That's where you are?
>> Mhm.

1320
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:40,080
» I I reckon I thank you. I respect the
opinion. I just think

1321
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:46,680
we're
we have a mandate from the legislature

1322
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:50,000
to allow accessory dwelling units.
We don't have a mandate from the

1323
01:35:48,480 --> 01:35:55,520
legislature
to alter the character of our

1324
01:35:51,760 --> 01:36:00,960
neighborhoods or start building homes or
dwelling units or whatever we call them

1325
01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:04,280
closer to one another than we currently
do.

1326
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:10,120
I recognize I may have the minority
opinion, but I don't think so when um

1327
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:13,200
» Well, you can
>> things start being built,

1328
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:17,240
um
there'll be public clamor.

1329
01:36:15,080 --> 01:36:21,560
» I I see what you're saying cuz you
purchase for space.

1330
01:36:19,680 --> 01:36:27,480
Right? You don't want to diminish.
>> So, Commissioner Tolaris just go by

1331
01:36:25,320 --> 01:36:29,840
the residential setbacks as
>> This side

1332
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:34,040
» in code.
Gentlemen, do you have any other

1333
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:34,040
thoughts on that?

1334
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:40,520
» I
I I would say that this is a new thing.

1335
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:46,160
Um like I said, I originally was kind of
under that idea like well, it's you

1336
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:52,320
know, keep it within the the residential
envelope. Um and then I realized this is

1337
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:57,920
a new category and everyone who lives in
a property that is larger than 11,000

1338
01:36:54,400 --> 01:37:03,560
square feet needs to
get used to the idea that that there is

1339
01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:08,720
a new category and I I'm not saying, you
know,

1340
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:12,600
anything goes, of course, but that
um

1341
01:37:10,480 --> 01:37:18,320
it's it's
it's going to happen.

1342
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:25,400
And it's new to to everyone and
um

1343
01:37:20,480 --> 01:37:29,040
to make it reasonable, I think it's it's
fine to allow

1344
01:37:26,920 --> 01:37:34,480
smaller setbacks.
Um again, that's my my opinion um

1345
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:37,680
on that and that these are different.
They're I I first I thought of them as

1346
01:37:36,080 --> 01:37:41,880
just another house and now I realize
it's not another house.

1347
01:37:39,480 --> 01:37:47,120
It's a DADU and it's a different
category. So, that's where I my opinion

1348
01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:52,280
differs with with his and I would be
willing to go smaller on those setbacks.

1349
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:55,480
Um
and I think that would be the

1350
01:37:56,000 --> 01:38:03,280
Yeah, that would be the way I would go.
>> I actually agree with Commissioner

1351
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:03,280
Toler.

1352
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:10,840
And
because it's already set up this way in

1353
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:10,840
in a way

1354
01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:18,400
what we're bringing in would be easier
for landowners to

1355
01:38:15,720 --> 01:38:21,160
and property owners to
adhere to.

1356
01:38:22,120 --> 01:38:30,080
With what Mr. With what Commissioner
Toler

1357
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:30,080
and his brothers' redlines have said.

1358
01:38:30,440 --> 01:38:34,440
Although there's room for movement

1359
01:38:34,480 --> 01:38:38,400
once we allow room for movement

1360
01:38:40,600 --> 01:38:50,880
we're opening up a whole new book.
Uh can of worms, sorry.

1361
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:50,880
I don't know the right phrase for that.

1362
01:38:53,120 --> 01:39:01,240
» Okay. Well, um we seem to be a little
bit at odds on

1363
01:38:59,920 --> 01:39:07,640
number three.
So but we certainly don't want to have

1364
01:39:04,440 --> 01:39:11,800
it as conform to setback requirements
for accessory structures because we know

1365
01:39:10,280 --> 01:39:15,480
well, currently that's just not
sufficient.

1366
01:39:12,840 --> 01:39:19,840
» I I think there's Well, I
I suspect there's unanimous consent that

1367
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:22,533
accessory structures is not the
standard.

1368
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:24,553
» Right. Right.
>> [clears throat]

1369
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:33,520
» Okay, so maybe we'll come back to that.
So, I think we're going to stick with

1370
01:39:30,480 --> 01:39:37,960
this um for be just just the wording
that is that you've got there.

1371
01:39:36,000 --> 01:39:39,920
Do you all feel good about that?
>> Yeah.

1372
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:43,520
» Leave the wording just the way it is so
we're not in any sort of trouble, but we

1373
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:48,480
can still
ask for it to be designed

1374
01:39:45,400 --> 01:39:50,360
consistent with the dwelling.
Um

1375
01:39:50,044 --> 01:39:53,760
» [clears throat]
>> may not be larger in size than the

1376
01:39:51,720 --> 01:39:58,440
single-family dwelling.
Do we feel comfortable with a 75%

1377
01:39:58,760 --> 01:40:02,560
number?
Does anyone want to throw out a

1378
01:40:01,560 --> 01:40:08,040
different number?
>> I don't know a solution, chair,

1379
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:12,840
but I can still think of
hypothetical situations where that would

1380
01:40:10,120 --> 01:40:18,680
that would be problematic. Um you have
an old

1381
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:22,360
you know, 1920s farmhouse and
um

1382
01:40:20,240 --> 01:40:26,400
it's it's already only
800 square feet or something like that

1383
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:30,160
and you say, you know, it's you know, I
I think that would be very rare, but

1384
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:33,640
I just wanted to throw that out there as
a possibility that

1385
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:35,960
but I do like the idea that we have some
kind of

1386
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:40,440
I just don't know
a better way to say it, so

1387
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:44,360
maybe that maybe maybe the percentage is
the best way.

1388
01:40:41,240 --> 01:40:44,360
» Percentage of land?

1389
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:51,840
» Yeah, I I think what you're describing
is the barn dominium. It's bigger than

1390
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:57,520
the house, but it feels appropriate cuz
it's on 5 acres or 3 acres or something.

1391
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:59,440
That I I can see that possibility.
Um

1392
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:02,600
» The main structure becomes the carriage
house.

1393
01:41:00,120 --> 01:41:04,160
» Yes. Yes. Um
so

1394
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:07,120
» So what's the
>> Perhaps

1395
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:08,840
» I have no solution. I just wanted to
mention that.

1396
01:41:07,720 --> 01:41:11,400
» Right.
>> Yeah, perhaps that's one

1397
01:41:10,800 --> 01:41:15,160
» But then I
>> area where we do rely on

1398
01:41:13,760 --> 01:41:18,800
on the zoning.
Um

1399
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:25,000
if it were in a uh
an A5

1400
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:31,360
that the 70 or 75% rule may not apply
because of my land use, but that's

1401
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:36,720
that's muddying the waters. I do think
um a a great starting place is 70 or

1402
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:39,440
75%.
>> I'm just curious if I can ask Brad, are

1403
01:41:38,360 --> 01:41:44,640
you
aware of any size

1404
01:41:42,440 --> 01:41:47,360
limitations in other communities that
you've worked with?

1405
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:50,120
» Um yeah, I've been having regular
meetings with the planning department

1406
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:52,560
with detached accessory dwelling units
in other communities as well, not just

1407
01:41:51,520 --> 01:41:58,680
Layton City.
Um typically I've seen 50% of the square

1408
01:41:55,920 --> 01:42:01,720
footage of the the primary residence.
Or

1409
01:41:59,920 --> 01:42:05,680
another number, whichever is less,
right? So, for example, um

1410
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:10,720
you know, it could be
50% of the square footage of the primary

1411
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:13,800
residence or 1,200 sq ft, whichever is
less. And so, then that's how that is

1412
01:42:12,160 --> 01:42:16,320
when we have somebody come in,
we would probably look at the county

1413
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:21,680
records and say, "This is what the
square footage of that home is. You can

1414
01:42:18,480 --> 01:42:24,920
go to 50% or 1,200 sq ft, but whichever
is the lesser of those two numbers,

1415
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:29,040
that's what you're stuck to."
Um

1416
01:42:26,040 --> 01:42:32,080
what what might be difficult is is and I
think we'd have to be clear on if we're

1417
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:34,440
saying the square footage of the home or
the footprint of the home.

1418
01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:36,640
Um
because

1419
01:42:35,640 --> 01:42:39,320
if if we're going to do it use a
percentage, because then you could have

1420
01:42:38,920 --> 01:42:42,680
» Yeah.
>> a debate at the counter, you know, with

1421
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:47,360
someone that says, "Well,
it just says 50% of my home. The square

1422
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:50,240
footage of my home is 2,000 sq ft, but
the footprint of my home is only 1,000."

1423
01:42:49,280 --> 01:42:51,960
Well, I'm just
using those numbers for simplicity's

1424
01:42:51,560 --> 01:42:53,640
sake.
>> Okay.

1425
01:42:52,600 --> 01:42:57,120
» And so, we probably won't want to look
at that and then

1426
01:42:55,200 --> 01:42:59,600
that as a commission determine if you
want to base it as on the footprint of

1427
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:03,040
the home.
If you do that, then

1428
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:06,800
that may mean
helps with the visual impact what you've

1429
01:43:05,240 --> 01:43:10,320
got around it, because you can see what
the footprint of the home is and then

1430
01:43:08,480 --> 01:43:14,080
what the footprint of that
uh detached accessory dwelling unit

1431
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:17,760
might look like. And so, you can kind of
visually see that. If you go with the

1432
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:22,960
square footage, then you might get a
uh detached accessory dwelling unit

1433
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:26,680
that's either 75% or the same size as
the footprint of the home.

1434
01:43:24,720 --> 01:43:30,040
Um but it's it's still going to be only
50% of that square footage.

1435
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:32,600
So, um
>> Okay.

1436
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:37,000
» My thought would be 50% of the the
footprint of the home as measured from

1437
01:43:34,960 --> 01:43:38,800
like the exterior foundation.
>> Mhm.

1438
01:43:37,480 --> 01:43:43,000
» Again, I'm trying to be very clear so
that that way we know exactly how we're

1439
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:48,240
regulating this. Or
so we go for percentage or a set number.

1440
01:43:46,280 --> 01:43:52,120
Whether it's 1,200 or 1,500 square feet
and then we say in the code whichever is

1441
01:43:50,040 --> 01:43:54,560
less. So then that way
we're

1442
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:58,200
holding to the stricture of the two
standards, but we're still giving

1443
01:43:56,280 --> 01:44:02,040
somebody the opportunity to to meet one
of those two.

1444
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:09,240
» Thank you. And then for our draftsman
the the exhibit A attachment A to what I

1445
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:13,080
forwarded to you, Wilf, has how Lehi,
Provo, Salt Lake, Ogden, Mill Creek,

1446
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:18,480
South Jordan, Riverton, and Cottonwood
Heights dealt with this very issue.

1447
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:23,200
First column.
Whether by percentage, whether by square

1448
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:29,160
feet, we've got some good examples there
of of how we might address it. Not many

1449
01:44:27,440 --> 01:44:34,280
The only one that's using a percentage
is Riverton. And they're doing it based

1450
01:44:31,360 --> 01:44:38,960
on the lot.
Not not the uh not in relation to the

1451
01:44:37,280 --> 01:44:42,640
dwelling. So
there's some

1452
01:44:41,440 --> 01:44:46,400
choices there.
>> So would it's probably not super

1453
01:44:44,640 --> 01:44:49,800
related, but
if you've got those limitations with the

1454
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:56,040
footprint or whatever how you want to
figure that out, then maybe the clients

1455
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:59,920
or the homeowners option is to do an
addition and make it an IADU.

1456
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:03,640
» Yeah.
>> We have some flexibility that way.

1457
01:45:01,640 --> 01:45:06,960
» Yep.
Yeah, I'm thinking of you know, with

1458
01:45:04,840 --> 01:45:09,080
what Commissioner Packer mentioned, if
you got a really small home

1459
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:13,600
» Mhm.
>> on that home, maybe the thing to do is

1460
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:17,600
to add on to the home
rather than build a free standing

1461
01:45:16,120 --> 01:45:21,280
attached ADU.
>> But you can work a internal one into it

1462
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:26,200
» Mhm.
>> to get the same

1463
01:45:23,680 --> 01:45:26,200
outcome.

1464
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:34,200
Okay, do we do we want to throw out
a number, a percentage, or something

1465
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:37,400
different? Does anyone want to
>> I I

1466
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:41,640
I would say we do, just to say it may
not be larger.

1467
01:45:39,640 --> 01:45:46,880
I think that's but I I like the either
70 or something. I don't know.

1468
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:49,680
I say we put a number there that's
smaller.

1469
01:45:47,400 --> 01:45:53,000
» the footprint idea. Let's
specify footprint.

1470
01:45:53,280 --> 01:46:00,000
» The footprint would make it a smaller
unit, right? 1,200 square feet or less.

1471
01:45:58,520 --> 01:46:04,960
So, if you had a 4,000 square foot
house, but it's fit in a two-story,

1472
01:46:03,440 --> 01:46:08,360
three-story, whatever. So, you're saying
your footprint's really only 1,500,

1473
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:14,640
right?
>> it's 70% or if it's 50%

1474
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:19,560
of the larger lot, we're talking about
footprint only, not square footage. So,

1475
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:21,240
yeah, so it might be more in a second
story.

1476
01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:24,480
» Mhm.
I see what you're saying.

1477
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:28,360
So, we really want to just address that
footprint of the whole thing.

1478
01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:32,760
Not going to barn them in
with your 1,900.

1479
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:37,000
» specific.
>> South Jordan dealt with this issue by

1480
01:46:35,480 --> 01:46:43,720
having us put some more of a burden on
us, but they've said that if it's more

1481
01:46:40,440 --> 01:46:48,920
than 35% of the gross living area or
1,500 square feet, it requires planning

1482
01:46:46,600 --> 01:46:52,360
commission review.
So, that's a one-sy, two-sy approach,

1483
01:46:51,320 --> 01:46:56,080
but
um

1484
01:46:53,480 --> 01:46:59,640
it does give us some more
review opportunity.

1485
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:03,920
» Well, that does limit if you say a
specific

1486
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:07,400
the lesser of the two for a person who
has a big home or a big space to work

1487
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:11,640
with.
Does limit those grievances, I think,

1488
01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:15,360
that those uh
dwelling units are causing right now.

1489
01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:30,760
Okay.
>> Yeah, I I chair I would just say if we

1490
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:34,960
can't figure out a
something where we're all happy with

1491
01:47:33,160 --> 01:47:39,240
still having something and and the
cleaner and simpler it can be, you know,

1492
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:42,920
with this first first go around.
Um

1493
01:47:41,640 --> 01:47:47,320
cuz you know, we have lots of great
ideas, but they could be complicated

1494
01:47:45,000 --> 01:47:50,880
with exceptions and things like that and
since we, you know, looking at a

1495
01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:55,800
deadline and and stuff.
>> So, we might recommend Are you saying we

1496
01:47:53,360 --> 01:48:01,680
might recommend to city council we want
to see between 50 to 75%

1497
01:47:59,400 --> 01:48:05,960
of the footprint
and possibly, you know, a minimum or a

1498
01:48:04,320 --> 01:48:09,400
maximum
of 1,200 square feet.

1499
01:48:08,480 --> 01:48:12,800
So, maybe we're not
>> I guess like a a starting line or a base

1500
01:48:11,320 --> 01:48:16,280
where they're going to have to say you
know, here's our minimum and then if we

1501
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:19,080
decide we need to amend later to have
exceptions or

1502
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:23,040
or things like
>> I think what the chair just put out is

1503
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:27,120
reasonable. Salt Lake City limits it to
1,000 square feet.

1504
01:48:25,400 --> 01:48:30,760
1,200 seems reasonable.
>> 1,200 seems to be the

1505
01:48:29,440 --> 01:48:33,240
» But the the next stop
>> one, but

1506
01:48:31,560 --> 01:48:36,680
» If I understand the next stop for this
document is a city council work meeting.

1507
01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:38,600
» Yeah.
>> Okay.

1508
01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:42,360
» I think we're going to get a lot of
feedback tonight. We're going to get a

1509
01:48:39,760 --> 01:48:45,200
lot of feedback on Thursday and then
we're going to come up with a new draft.

1510
01:48:44,160 --> 01:48:47,600
» Okay. Very good.
>> Yeah.

1511
01:48:45,840 --> 01:48:51,120
» I like the 50%
or 1,200

1512
01:48:49,000 --> 01:48:55,480
» 50% or 1,200
>> of the footprint

1513
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:58,600
lesser of the two.
>> And the you're speaking the footprint

1514
01:48:57,440 --> 01:49:02,880
» footprint
Right.

1515
01:49:00,240 --> 01:49:08,640
» Yeah, great place to start.
>> Okay, we have something down.

1516
01:49:06,160 --> 01:49:08,640
Okay.

1517
01:49:11,360 --> 01:49:16,360
We agreed on something.
>> [laughter]

1518
01:49:15,080 --> 01:49:21,080
» Okay.
And then

1519
01:49:18,880 --> 01:49:26,200
the next thing that I had question on
and so stop me if we want to

1520
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:31,040
hit anything else is five
A.

1521
01:49:27,440 --> 01:49:37,200
Do we want to have no more than
one IADU or DADU? Do we feel comfortable

1522
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:40,160
with that or do you want to allow
both?

1523
01:49:38,120 --> 01:49:41,840
» I'm okay with both.
>> Yeah.

1524
01:49:40,840 --> 01:49:45,600
» As long as the second one
>> with both if they fit the setbacks.

1525
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:47,880
» So you're okay with both. You're okay
with leaving it as is.

1526
01:49:47,080 --> 01:49:52,840
» I'm okay with both.
>> You're okay too with both. Anybody any

1527
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:58,080
other thoughts on allowing that?
>> No more than one would be where I'm at.

1528
01:49:55,480 --> 01:49:58,080
» than one.

1529
01:50:02,760 --> 01:50:09,400
» I would be I would
Again, I can think of examples where

1530
01:50:07,560 --> 01:50:12,240
having both would be
manageable.

1531
01:50:14,440 --> 01:50:22,280
I'm not completely sold on it but I I
wouldn't It's not a hill I'm going to

1532
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:25,320
I'm going to fight on like
>> Okay. Well, maybe we'll leave it as is

1533
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:28,680
for now.
>> Yeah, I'm fine with one if we need it.

1534
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:34,080
» Okay.
>> Change it later.

1535
01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:38,320
» Um
what am I missing?

1536
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:40,320
» Um E.
63 E.

1537
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:44,680
» Good with owner occupied.
>> I don't like 30 consecutive days. I

1538
01:50:42,480 --> 01:50:49,840
think it should be at least 90.
>> Oh, here we go. E. 90. Do you all feel

1539
01:50:48,280 --> 01:50:51,120
good about 90?
>> Yes.

1540
01:50:50,240 --> 01:50:55,000
» Yeah.
>> Okay, we have consensus on 90.

1541
01:50:59,120 --> 01:51:04,520
And then I guess we just don't really
have Oh, let's see.

1542
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:14,080
It's just the uh
three B two where we're kind of landing.

1543
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:17,960
is that right?
Where it has height.

1544
01:51:16,200 --> 01:51:23,480
And
lot coverage and then three for the

1545
01:51:20,760 --> 01:51:25,480
setbacks. Is that kind of our sticky
point?

1546
01:51:24,040 --> 01:51:28,960
» That's our sticky point. But I did have
one other issue.

1547
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:34,040
» 381.
>> Are we sticking with the 11,000?

1548
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:37,160
» Oh, 11,000. Did you want to reduce that
or leave it?

1549
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:41,960
» Um
Do you feel okay if we switch it to

1550
01:51:39,080 --> 01:51:44,520
10,000 to open up more opportunity?
>> I'd prefer 10,000.

1551
01:51:43,160 --> 01:51:48,720
» You have R10, R110?
>> I'm good with that.

1552
01:51:46,280 --> 01:51:48,720
» Okay.

1553
01:51:48,760 --> 01:51:55,800
» Um Commissioner Artola, I think it was
you that said on

1554
01:51:52,640 --> 01:52:01,160
5F, I think it is what it is.
The owner of the lot or parcel must be

1555
01:51:58,280 --> 01:52:03,760
residing in the single-family.
All right, that that was an issue for

1556
01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:06,960
you. So,
can we go ahead and

1557
01:52:04,600 --> 01:52:12,000
» I don't want to build an an auxiliary
dwelling unit and move out and I've

1558
01:52:09,360 --> 01:52:18,400
created an income property duplex in a
single-family zone.

1559
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:24,680
Not not what the legislature intends.
We have a recital that I proposed that

1560
01:52:22,320 --> 01:52:30,040
that makes that clear. Whereas the
stated purpose of the legislature's

1561
01:52:27,280 --> 01:52:34,720
accessory dwelling unit is to increase
the supply of long-term housing.

1562
01:52:33,520 --> 01:52:39,520
And
that that makes clear that hey, we

1563
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:42,200
didn't intend this to be
we're going to build

1564
01:52:41,600 --> 01:52:47,040
uh
two or more

1565
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:52,080
uh two units in a single-family zone and
then make them rentals and move on.

1566
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:55,680
» So, that's already in there. It's okay
as is.

1567
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:59,640
» Yeah, isn't that the
same as ADUs?

1568
01:52:58,840 --> 01:53:04,720
» Okay.
I just wanted to double-check that cuz

1569
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:04,720
» Thank you. Yeah.

1570
01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:11,320
» Okay, so we've got 10,000 square feet.

1571
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:19,160
» Uh right. I'm trying.
>> And now we just need setbacks.

1572
01:53:16,280 --> 01:53:19,160
» Setbacks.

1573
01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:44,680
» Yeah, I I don't know that we're going to
We're we're never going to agree

1574
01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:46,520
completely, and that's okay um on
setbacks.

1575
01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:51,000
» Yes.
>> Um

1576
01:53:48,400 --> 01:53:55,400
and we do have that
small comfort of knowing that the city

1577
01:53:53,840 --> 01:53:59,280
council is the one that actually has to
to make the final decision, but

1578
01:53:56,880 --> 01:54:03,440
» Can [laughter] we Can we Can we narrow
it down and give them maybe a range?

1579
01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:06,600
» Yeah, I you know
>> that we're looking for.

1580
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:13,360
» And and
>> I think rear setback can go to at least

1581
01:54:09,960 --> 01:54:17,280
10 ft if not 8.
I don't think it has to match the

1582
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:20,920
zoning. I think that's going to limit
people. But that is just my opinion.

1583
01:54:19,680 --> 01:54:22,880
» No, I agree with that.
>> Do you like Layton's better than the

1584
01:54:22,520 --> 01:54:25,360
other like
>> Yes.

1585
01:54:29,800 --> 01:54:37,040
But
they're decent though.

1586
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:44,720
Okay. I wonder um
if there is language that we could

1587
01:54:41,000 --> 01:54:49,720
include in there to maybe look at other
city codes for for the setbacks.

1588
01:54:48,360 --> 01:54:55,920
So if we
>> And have half of the setback.

1589
01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:58,200
So no more than half of the setback.
>> That would be 7 ft.

1590
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:01,240
» Okay.
>> That's less than 8.

1591
01:54:59,320 --> 01:55:03,680
» Uh perhaps uh
Chairman perhaps

1592
01:55:02,760 --> 01:55:06,920
» It's a little cringey for me.
>> This is an area

1593
01:55:05,520 --> 01:55:10,960
» where
um

1594
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:15,160
we take the approach South Jordan did is
if there is since we're creating a a

1595
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:18,200
dwelling unit
if there's variance

1596
01:55:17,240 --> 01:55:24,040
from
these setbacks that that requires review

1597
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:27,560
by this body.
Might be one way to deal with it.

1598
01:55:25,640 --> 01:55:30,920
» but it's not a dwelling unit. It's an
accessory dwell dwelling unit. There's a

1599
01:55:29,560 --> 01:55:36,120
difference. We're talking like a
mother-in-law's apartment. It's For me,

1600
01:55:34,080 --> 01:55:38,720
it's different, but
>> We are talking about rear setbacks right

1601
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:43,840
now, right?
>> No, reg- regardless of what you call it,

1602
01:55:41,040 --> 01:55:47,680
someone's living there, coming going,
looking out their windows. You're

1603
01:55:45,640 --> 01:55:53,840
creating a home
in my backyard

1604
01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:58,560
that that will have a setback.
We've heard quite a bit from the public

1605
01:55:55,320 --> 01:56:02,480
tonight about concerns with setbacks and
privacy.

1606
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:07,760
And I think we're asking for trouble if
we vary from what the existing zoning

1607
01:56:06,160 --> 01:56:13,480
districts have.
I've made my point more than twice. I

1608
01:56:09,600 --> 01:56:18,560
apologize, but you know where I'm at.
>> The one one

1609
01:56:16,360 --> 01:56:22,440
caution I might have to what
um

1610
01:56:19,960 --> 01:56:25,680
Paul is is suggesting to perhaps have a
review

1611
01:56:24,000 --> 01:56:30,600
if it varies
is that the state code, the bill that

1612
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:34,160
was passed says that you cannot make
ADUs conditional uses.

1613
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:38,160
» Mhm.
>> While we're not calling it a conditional

1614
01:56:35,880 --> 01:56:40,360
use, it's pretty similar to what we
would be doing for a conditional use if

1615
01:56:40,240 --> 01:56:43,120
that
>> Yeah, I the review process would be

1616
01:56:42,120 --> 01:56:45,400
messy. I'm just
>> Yeah.

1617
01:56:43,640 --> 01:56:50,560
» I was looking for a compromise, but
perhaps there's a way.

1618
01:56:48,080 --> 01:56:55,000
» Good point.
Uh 10 ft.

1619
01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:58,440
I don't know.
12 ft.

1620
01:56:56,520 --> 01:57:00,440
What are we at? 15? normally?
>> to like the um

1621
01:56:59,440 --> 01:57:05,760
» 15?
>> The ideas that Layton has, they seemed

1622
01:57:03,320 --> 01:57:08,520
reasonable to me.
I can't quote them off the top of my

1623
01:57:07,200 --> 01:57:15,960
head, you know. It's been a minute.
>> Okay. Yeah, but I think in a motion, you

1624
01:57:12,120 --> 01:57:20,560
could recommend that you align with
Layton City code. If you want to be

1625
01:57:18,840 --> 01:57:28,240
specific, maybe you can't say what it
is. But you could say instead of

1626
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:32,800
number three here, we're going to ask
that it come back

1627
01:57:30,200 --> 01:57:36,200
looking like, you know, the setbacks in
in this city's code.

1628
01:57:37,880 --> 01:57:44,840
If somebody were to
make a motion.

1629
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:50,600
I mean, if you start if anybody's
mulling that over in their head.

1630
01:57:48,200 --> 01:57:53,400
That you could it could be achieved
perhaps.

1631
01:57:53,520 --> 01:57:58,960
And it may or may not fly, but
we could always try.

1632
01:58:01,680 --> 01:58:09,080
Is there anything else you want to um
hash out? Anything that you

1633
01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:15,440
So, I have made some adjustments to
allow 10,000 sq ft or larger.

1634
01:58:13,120 --> 01:58:19,320
Um
we're going to look at

1635
01:58:17,160 --> 01:58:22,560
I mean, potentially
Layton's

1636
01:58:20,760 --> 01:58:27,440
code as
um setbacks.

1637
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:32,920
We definitely want to be design
consistent with the original dwelling.

1638
01:58:30,680 --> 01:58:39,520
We're looking at per- perhaps not to
exceed 50% or 1,200 sq ft

1639
01:58:36,800 --> 01:58:44,360
of the footprint of the original.
Excuse me. Not to exceed 50% of the

1640
01:58:41,800 --> 01:58:49,440
footprint or 1,200 which is whichever is
smaller.

1641
01:58:46,440 --> 01:58:49,440
And

1642
01:58:49,640 --> 01:58:57,640
rented not to exceed 90 not or no less
than 90 consecutive days.

1643
01:58:55,040 --> 01:58:58,880
» And only one unit, is that what we
decided?

1644
01:58:58,440 --> 01:59:01,800
» Yes.
>> Yes, one accessory.

1645
01:59:01,880 --> 01:59:08,600
And leaving it as no more than one.
That's a that leaves it, right?

1646
01:59:12,360 --> 01:59:18,800
And I guess the other thing that we
didn't discuss is window placement, so

1647
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:21,640
we can or we can't?
>> Um we may according to the state code,

1648
01:59:21,120 --> 01:59:26,240
but
>> potential.

1649
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:31,200
» Sorry about that.
I could With that limiting it also

1650
01:59:28,920 --> 01:59:36,360
limits, you know, somebody trying to do
two

1651
01:59:32,760 --> 01:59:40,160
dwellings, exterior dwellings on there.
Just by saying it's you can either do an

1652
01:59:38,400 --> 01:59:42,000
internal one or an external one, but
just one.

1653
01:59:41,320 --> 01:59:44,600
» Yeah, one.
>> what you're saying?

1654
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:47,400
But then they could do accessory
buildings.

1655
01:59:46,800 --> 01:59:50,000
» No more than one.
>> Say that again.

1656
01:59:48,680 --> 01:59:52,560
Mhm, so okay.
>> They can't have both at once.

1657
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:56,480
» have one ADU
Yeah, they can't have both, but like

1658
01:59:54,320 --> 01:59:58,760
what if they wanted to make two
outdoor

1659
01:59:58,240 --> 02:00:01,080
ADUs?
>> Oh, does that not

1660
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:03,800
» detached ADUs.
>> Does that apply that?

1661
02:00:01,880 --> 02:00:04,920
» Does that Does that keep it limited
there?

1662
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,800
» Yeah.
>> No more than one

1663
02:00:06,120 --> 02:00:10,040
» Yeah.
>> of this or one of that.

1664
02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:13,880
» Yeah.
>> Okay.

1665
02:00:11,520 --> 02:00:16,520
» One dwelling.
>> Yeah.

1666
02:00:14,400 --> 02:00:18,680
» One dwelling One dwelling unit One
dwelling unit is all.

1667
02:00:18,320 --> 02:00:21,440
» Yeah.
>> You just get one.

1668
02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:25,320
» I'm not sure it states
>> that language is right.

1669
02:00:22,600 --> 02:00:25,320
» Pick your poison.

1670
02:00:26,200 --> 02:00:29,440
And or
and

1671
02:00:30,400 --> 02:00:32,920
» Okay.

1672
02:00:39,680 --> 02:00:46,920
Should I attempt a motion?
Kind of scared.

1673
02:00:44,080 --> 02:00:49,160
I mean, this This big This is a big one.
>> It a little scary.

1674
02:00:48,280 --> 02:00:52,760
» And and
but it's not a it's not a finished

1675
02:00:50,880 --> 02:00:55,360
product exactly. I mean there's still
work to be done.

1676
02:00:55,920 --> 02:01:00,880
» Oh boy. Okay.
Let's see.

1677
02:01:02,680 --> 02:01:11,280
I would like to make a motion
that we

1678
02:01:09,240 --> 02:01:17,240
send forth the recommendation of the
ordinance as written with the following

1679
02:01:14,600 --> 02:01:20,200
adjustments.
Um

1680
02:01:18,840 --> 02:01:24,440
that
Do I have to like have all of the

1681
02:01:22,160 --> 02:01:32,240
numbers with it?
3A the allowance be 10,000 square feet

1682
02:01:29,440 --> 02:01:37,160
um lots.
Um that we refer to Layton's code for

1683
02:01:35,640 --> 02:01:42,520
setback
requirements, which is

1684
02:01:40,600 --> 02:01:45,954
3B.
>> 3E. I don't think we need the section

1685
02:01:44,440 --> 02:01:49,920
number.
>> [laughter]

1686
02:01:47,560 --> 02:01:52,240
» I'm about to pass out. Okay.
Um

1687
02:01:52,600 --> 02:01:58,360
that we also
as written that the design be consistent

1688
02:01:57,000 --> 02:02:05,200
with the design of the single-family
dwelling

1689
02:01:59,680 --> 02:02:12,240
um which is as written that we allow for
50% of the house footprint or 12,000

1690
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:13,120
square feet, whichever is smaller.
>> 1,200

1691
02:02:12,760 --> 02:02:14,440
» 1,200
>> 1,200

1692
02:02:13,880 --> 02:02:21,880
» 1,200
>> What's a fan house? I'm tired.

1693
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:26,640
I'm tired. And that renting um be for no
shorter than 90 days consecutive days.

1694
02:02:27,880 --> 02:02:34,160
» We have a motion.
>> I'll second it.

1695
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:38,240
» And a second.
>> Okay, we will vote. Um

1696
02:02:37,080 --> 02:02:40,040
Commissioner Packer, we'll start with
you.

1697
02:02:39,200 --> 02:02:42,880
» Aye.
>> Aye.

1698
02:02:41,720 --> 02:02:44,160
» Aye.
>> Aye.

1699
02:02:43,560 --> 02:02:46,520
» Aye.
>> Aye.

1700
02:02:47,524 --> 02:02:51,680
» [laughter]
>> Excellent. Okay.

1701
02:02:50,560 --> 02:02:57,480
» Can we write that in the notes? And then
we got a round of applause.

1702
02:02:53,600 --> 02:02:57,480
» Did you get Did you get that?

1703
02:02:57,920 --> 02:03:05,160
» Okay.
We are going to move to discussion of

1704
02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:08,680
possible action to review accessory
structure code requirements, and I think

1705
02:03:08,040 --> 02:03:12,600
» We absolutely
>> We've discussed Do we want to go into

1706
02:03:11,000 --> 02:03:16,480
detail? Do you want to bring that up?
>> I mean, I think We just wanted to make

1707
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:20,640
you aware that we learned through this
process that there are some issues

1708
02:03:17,920 --> 02:03:25,160
there. I mean, we can talk about what
those issues are, but we don't need to

1709
02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:30,840
do that tonight. By What What we do need
from you is a motion to do this so so

1710
02:03:29,040 --> 02:03:34,880
that it actually goes on the record.
>> To get it on the agenda.

1711
02:03:32,360 --> 02:03:39,000
» And that gets it to the point where then
we if we will essentially have 6 months

1712
02:03:38,280 --> 02:03:41,720
to
>> To bring something

1713
02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:45,120
» code and and make any whatever
adjustments

1714
02:03:42,440 --> 02:03:51,080
» already taken out the link, or we would
have if if city council were to

1715
02:03:48,040 --> 02:03:55,960
approve where we take the link out of
the

1716
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:58,600
DADUs could be using the same setbacks
as the accessory.

1717
02:03:58,040 --> 02:04:04,080
» Right?
>> Yes. Because you you specify

1718
02:04:01,560 --> 02:04:08,120
» eliminate that scare, but we definitely
want to get it on the books.

1719
02:04:06,400 --> 02:04:10,760
» Right. Yeah, I mean, now now we want to
do this for

1720
02:04:09,520 --> 02:04:15,200
for
accessory uh structures in general.

1721
02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:18,960
There are some issues there that I think
we need to work on.

1722
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:22,040
» accessory structures one foot away.
>> So,

1723
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:29,040
I would entertain a motion if someone
would like to put one forth to

1724
02:04:25,400 --> 02:04:30,600
uh make an amendment to that code.
>> To consider.

1725
02:04:29,880 --> 02:04:35,920
» To consider.
>> To consider making changes to the

1726
02:04:33,320 --> 02:04:41,000
accessory structure provisions
>> I would like to make a motion.

1727
02:04:38,880 --> 02:04:44,560
So that we can eventually go home that
we

1728
02:04:42,080 --> 02:04:49,680
at a future meeting discuss the possible
action to review accessory

1729
02:04:46,960 --> 02:04:52,400
structure code requirements.
>> I second.

1730
02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:57,160
» Commissioner Moore, we'll start with
you.

1731
02:04:55,160 --> 02:04:58,880
» I.
>> I.

1732
02:04:58,120 --> 02:05:00,600
» I.
>> I.

1733
02:04:59,640 --> 02:05:02,920
» I.
>> I.

1734
02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:09,760
» Very good. That passes.
And

1735
02:05:08,120 --> 02:05:13,360
» Everybody take a big deep breath.
>> We are at other matters.

1736
02:05:16,200 --> 02:05:19,560
Do we have any other matters?
>> Do we have Do we have to approve the

1737
02:05:18,840 --> 02:05:22,280
minutes?
>> Approve the minutes.

1738
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:25,720
» Oh, did I skip one?
Okay.

1739
02:05:23,840 --> 02:05:31,840
All right. Does anyone want to make a
motion to Does any

1740
02:05:27,880 --> 02:05:31,840
» Does anybody review the minutes?

1741
02:05:32,960 --> 02:05:40,040
» I'll make a motion that we approve the
minutes from the July 23rd meeting.

1742
02:05:37,480 --> 02:05:42,800
» Second.
>> And we'll vote all together.

1743
02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:46,240
» I.
>> I.

1744
02:05:45,080 --> 02:05:49,680
» Great.
>> Other matters.

1745
02:05:48,120 --> 02:05:54,040
» Wow.
>> Okay. Um

1746
02:05:52,160 --> 02:05:59,497
Really the only matters Well, a couple
of things. This is Anne's last night.

1747
02:05:57,477 --> 02:05:59,497
» [applause]

1748
02:06:00,040 --> 02:06:04,720
» So she put
>> applauding. Don't clap for that.

1749
02:06:03,480 --> 02:06:10,400
» They're saying good job.
>> So we appreciate um the two years, just

1750
02:06:07,320 --> 02:06:10,400
a little over two years.

1751
02:06:10,520 --> 02:06:15,640
» I know you're leaving the state, Anne.
Remind us where.

1752
02:06:13,680 --> 02:06:18,880
» Uh I'm moving to the East Coast,
northern Virginia specifically.

1753
02:06:17,560 --> 02:06:23,077
» Wow.
>> Things are much easier back there.

1754
02:06:21,057 --> 02:06:23,077
» [laughter]

1755
02:06:24,080 --> 02:06:32,480
» Well, at least for now.
>> Anne's been with us for two years um

1756
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:32,480
and it's been a delight

1757
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:41,600
to have her work next to me.
So, she'll be great where she's going.

1758
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:45,200
And we will work on getting a new
a new employee soon. I'm not sure how

1759
02:06:43,920 --> 02:06:50,640
long that's going to take, but we're
going to find the right one. So,

1760
02:06:47,600 --> 02:06:53,600
I'm just thank her
for trusting and getting to know us

1761
02:06:52,520 --> 02:06:57,240
Kaysville
people because we love our Kaysville and

1762
02:06:55,640 --> 02:07:00,000
and she's I think learned to love us,
too.

1763
02:06:58,120 --> 02:07:04,360
» And it's such a credit to Ann. Tomorrow
was her last day and she's here tonight.

1764
02:07:01,920 --> 02:07:07,440
She hasn't checked out for a second.
She's with us to the bitter end and I

1765
02:07:06,280 --> 02:07:08,920
just think that shows a lot of
professionalism.

1766
02:07:08,480 --> 02:07:11,440
» Thank you.
>> Thank you, Ann.

1767
02:07:10,640 --> 02:07:15,520
» Good for her.
>> Um and then yes, hopefully Brad will be

1768
02:07:13,680 --> 02:07:20,000
starting with us. I'm pretty sure it's a
done deal. So, August 31st

1769
02:07:18,360 --> 02:07:23,000
I think he did okay tonight. I think
he'll be all right. It was kind of like

1770
02:07:21,200 --> 02:07:26,720
his like a fourth interview he didn't
know about. It was pretty brutal hazing

1771
02:07:25,760 --> 02:07:30,440
» It was his audition.
>> Yeah. Yeah, it was just a little bit of

1772
02:07:28,000 --> 02:07:36,400
hazing. I think he did all right. So, um
on August 31st he'll be joining our team

1773
02:07:33,440 --> 02:07:40,280
and we look forward to having him um
come be a part of Kaysville City with

1774
02:07:37,880 --> 02:07:40,280
us.

1775
02:07:42,360 --> 02:07:48,080
I'm sorry I'm so emotional.
Um

1776
02:07:46,520 --> 02:07:53,720
And then we have the APA conference
coming up in October, September, one of

1777
02:07:51,320 --> 02:07:56,320
these months in the fallish time.
I just got [snorts] to get through

1778
02:07:54,520 --> 02:08:01,560
August and then we can talk the rest of
the year. So, September if you're

1779
02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:05,520
interested in going, please um just on
the text thread, let me know. Just APA

1780
02:08:03,720 --> 02:08:10,720
thumbs up or whatever um and I'll get
you registered. And then the ULUI, I

1781
02:08:07,760 --> 02:08:15,200
believe, is in October. So, um
I believe if we register for the APA,

1782
02:08:12,760 --> 02:08:18,840
the more that we have registered Did you
send me that?

1783
02:08:16,520 --> 02:08:22,720
That we get a discount. It's a little
bit cheaper the more of us that that

1784
02:08:21,560 --> 02:08:26,680
sign up for that. So,
>> And and that's local, right? Here we go.

1785
02:08:25,040 --> 02:08:27,960
» To the Davis Conference Center.
>> Very good.

1786
02:08:27,640 --> 02:08:31,000
» Okay.
>> Pretty good commute, can't beat it. You

1787
02:08:29,920 --> 02:08:32,840
know.
Could ride your bike there if you

1788
02:08:32,040 --> 02:08:37,353
wanted. Um
>> Wait, you can't feel hotels?

1789
02:08:35,333 --> 02:08:37,353
» [laughter]

1790
02:08:37,520 --> 02:08:43,200
» Now you're pushing it.
Um

1791
02:08:41,360 --> 02:08:48,320
And then oh, we do have a variance
coming on our agenda on the 27th. Do you

1792
02:08:46,320 --> 02:08:51,000
want to talk just a little bit about
that?

1793
02:08:49,280 --> 02:08:54,480
» Nope, we're not going to talk about it.
>> We're not I [laughter] am going to send

1794
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:58,720
out um
there's a a guidebook on being an appeal

1795
02:08:57,400 --> 02:09:02,320
authority cuz I think that's going to be
new for all of us. So, I've I'll send

1796
02:09:00,960 --> 02:09:06,200
that out tomorrow and you can kind of
read about what some training that the

1797
02:09:04,200 --> 02:09:09,680
Land Use Institute's given on being an
appeal authority. So

1798
02:09:07,400 --> 02:09:13,240
» And maybe just remind just what you put
in the text as far as

1799
02:09:11,360 --> 02:09:16,200
» Oh, yeah. Um basically, yeah, we're
we're not going to talk about it between

1800
02:09:14,560 --> 02:09:20,240
now and then because you're you're
acting kind of as a judge. So, you want

1801
02:09:18,400 --> 02:09:25,520
to just base it on the evidence that you
hear that night. So, um try not to talk

1802
02:09:22,920 --> 02:09:26,960
about it with neighbors or me or anyone.
And we'll just

1803
02:09:26,040 --> 02:09:29,044
» You can talk to me. I have no clue
what's going on.

1804
02:09:27,760 --> 02:09:31,760
» don't talk to Mandy.
>> [laughter]

1805
02:09:29,400 --> 02:09:34,040
» Let's just we'll just come and hear the
evidence and then you'll make your

1806
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:37,720
decision and that's how it goes.
>> is that happening?

1807
02:09:35,800 --> 02:09:42,160
» The next meeting. Yeah, and we'll try to
keep that agenda light. We're trying to

1808
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:47,320
push everything off until Brad's on, but
um that one will be fine.

1809
02:09:44,160 --> 02:09:49,320
» use permit that um applied yesterday.
It's for a preschool.

1810
02:09:48,920 --> 02:09:53,280
» Okay.
>> And then she's wanting to open it for

1811
02:09:50,600 --> 02:09:55,280
the first obviously to start that week.
So, I think

1812
02:09:54,480 --> 02:09:59,040
» Throw them on.
>> Those are pretty simple. If that's okay,

1813
02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:01,640
we put that on the agenda.
>> Yeah, absolutely. That'll be

1814
02:10:00,485 --> 02:10:06,480
» [snorts]
>> All right, you guys. I think that's

1815
02:10:05,120 --> 02:10:09,000
all from us.
>> If I can add one thing just real quick,

1816
02:10:08,160 --> 02:10:10,840
I just thought about this.
>> I have to say something.

1817
02:10:10,240 --> 02:10:14,560
» Oh.
>> You did a good job. Thank you very much

1818
02:10:12,720 --> 02:10:16,360
for your efforts.
>> Thank you very much.

1819
02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:20,720
» Yes.
>> On on looking at the accessory

1820
02:10:18,160 --> 02:10:24,360
structures ordinance code, by doing
this, you know, we talked about how this

1821
02:10:22,880 --> 02:10:28,840
is a moratorium, not really a
moratorium. The issue really becomes, I

1822
02:10:26,720 --> 02:10:32,920
mean, we don't intend to stop things
like people putting tough sheds in their

1823
02:10:30,480 --> 02:10:35,840
backyards and things like that. And yet
by saying we're looking at the accessory

1824
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:40,120
structures,
it kind of opens the possibility that

1825
02:10:37,800 --> 02:10:42,800
that might change.
You know, I don't know how we give

1826
02:10:41,280 --> 02:10:46,000
someone that assurance, but I think we
want to

1827
02:10:43,600 --> 02:10:49,600
try to figure out at a staff level if
somebody comes in and they says, "I want

1828
02:10:47,360 --> 02:10:52,920
to buy I want to put in a tough shed."
We tell them, "Look, we're looking at

1829
02:10:51,000 --> 02:10:57,360
the ordinance, but we're probably not
going to change that part of it, so

1830
02:10:54,440 --> 02:11:01,000
you're probably okay in going ahead."
But,

1831
02:10:59,320 --> 02:11:03,920
that probably makes Katie nervous cuz
she's going to be like, "Well, what if

1832
02:11:02,240 --> 02:11:06,520
we do wind up changing it and then we
told them that we weren't going to

1833
02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:11,600
change it."
Um, you know, I our intent really is to

1834
02:11:08,800 --> 02:11:17,320
look at bigger accessory structures,
but um, you never know, I guess.

1835
02:11:14,680 --> 02:11:20,080
» Yeah, hopefully putting it where most of
it's going to take place over the

1836
02:11:18,440 --> 02:11:23,120
winter, we won't have as many.
>> Yeah.

1837
02:11:20,360 --> 02:11:23,120
» So, it's good timing.

1838
02:11:24,480 --> 02:11:27,760
Hopefully we have a winter.

1839
02:11:29,080 --> 02:11:34,160
» Okay. Is there nothing else?
>> You can.

1840
02:11:32,760 --> 02:11:38,120
» It's all the motions.
>> All right. Adjourned.

1841
02:11:38,280 --> 02:11:41,320
» Thank you so much.
>> Thank you.

1842
02:11:40,120 --> 02:11:43,120
» Thank you
so much.

1843
02:11:42,080 --> 02:11:46,520
» Thanks.
>> Cheers.

1844
02:11:44,320 --> 02:11:46,520
» Yeah.