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Good evening everyone. Welcome. It is 602 p. m. So

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we're going to begin. I'll just ask if everyone could

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settle, please. Thank you. All right, the meeting being held

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tonight is a public meeting under the Planning Act. Please

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note that this meeting will be live streamed on the

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city of Kingston website, audio and video are being collected

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by the city and the meeting recording will be archived

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on the city website for public consumption. I will take

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this opportunity to remind everyone, including myself to please ensure

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the sound on your cellular device is turned off. Notice

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of collection. Personal information collected as a result of the

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public meetings are collected under the authority of the Planning

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Act and will be used to assist in making a

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decision on this matter. Person speaking at the meeting are

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requested to give their name for recording in the minutes.

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All names, opinions, and comments may be collected and may

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form part of the minutes, which will be available to

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the public. To be notified of the decision, you must

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either fill out the sign - in sheet at the

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door, or you must email the file planner or committee

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clerk requesting notice of the decision. Tonight's meeting is to

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present a planning application in a public forum as detailed

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in the Community Meeting Report. This report does not contain

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a staff recommendation and therefore no decisions will be made

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this evening. Following the presentation by the applicant, the meeting

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will be opened to the public for comments and questions.

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I will be alternating between recognising five speakers attending in

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person and five speakers attending virtually. Do not expect a

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response immediately after you have asked your questions. Staff and

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the applicant will be taking notes and will respond after

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five speakers have had an opportunity to present. For those

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attending in person, the seats at the Speaker Microphones have

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been reserved. Over here? Yes, okay. Those five seats right

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back there. I lost my spot.

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Okay. Please be sure to speak directly into the microphone

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so that those attending both in - person and online

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can hear clearly. There's just a little button and the

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light will turn red when you've got the microphone turned

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on. If you are attending the meeting online and wish

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to speak to this application, please use the raised hand

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function at the bottom of your zoom screen. If your

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question or comment has already been provided, please do not

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feel compelled to repeat it. I will now call the

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Community Meeting to Order. The purpose of the Community meeting

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is to provide the applicant with an opportunity to present

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a potential development proposal in the early stages of development

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process and to seek feedback from the public and members

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of Planning Committee. Anyone who attends a Community meeting may

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present an oral submission and or provide a written submission

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on the proposals being presented. Tonight's Community Meeting Application is

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for 105 Queen Street. I'd like to invite The Applicant

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to present the proposal.

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And just while the applicant is getting set up, a

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reminder that we will go to Community MembersNACS. So if

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you are in the room and wish to speak, I

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will be inviting you after this presentation. If you'd like

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to sit in one of those chairs, then we'll go

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through the questions and comments. Thank you.

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All right, well, good evening, Madam Chair, members of the

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committee and members of the community. Thank you for coming

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out this evening. My name is Mike Keane, and I'm

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a land use planner with Foten Consultants. And I'm here

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tonight to present to you an application for a zoning

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bylaw amendment for 105 Queen Street and 90 to 96

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barrack street. And with me, the other presenter is Ray

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Zaybak, and Ray is one of the founding partners of

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Schultz and Zacka architects. And is the designer of the

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project. And can I click. Or do I need to

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ask you. It's that one. Okay. Thank you.

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So. The property right now, if you're familiar with downtown

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is the staple store. And it's a tall one -

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story building, and it has its associated parking lot on

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Baggett and Bearik Street's kind of behind the store. And

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then along Beark Street, there's a small row of townhouses,

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an additional parking behind the townhouses. And two of the

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three units are also part of this project. You know,

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and looking at the history on this property, there's quite

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a bit of history. And in one of the earlier

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zoning bylaws dating back to 1993, the staple site was

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envisioned as a 22 - story or a 16 -

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story mixed use building. And then in 1993, an application

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came forward that proposed more of a bar - style

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building across the length of the property that was 10

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stories in height. And that building went to the Ontario

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Municipal Board where that approval was granted. That building was

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never built. And in 1999, the staple store was constructed.

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And since 1996, the site has been zoned a site

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- specific C1 - 4, which comes out of the

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old 1996 - 259 by - law. And that property,

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the staple side of the property has never been brought

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into the new zoning by law. Just taking a few

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quick existing condition photos. This is the view looking down

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Bagot Street between Annalene and the Staples Store. This is

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looking down Queen Street toward the water. This is looking

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at, this is broken in two images, but looking at

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the barrack Street frontage of the staple store and the

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townhouse. And this is a site showing it in the

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context of the downtown and some of the surrounding institutional

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recreational and park features that exist. The ring, the light

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ring on the image represents a 600 metre distance. So

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about a eight to 10 minute walk and giving you

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a sense of, you know, what some of those immediate

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Institutional and recreational features are. The site itself is located

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approximately 200 metres from the main bus downtown transfer point.

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You know, this is an area that has been transitioning

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over the last roughly 10 years, maybe slightly longer than

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that. And this slide is showing some of those existing

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and some of the ongoing newer construction apartments and condos

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in the area. On the west, the farthest, or sorry,

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I should say, it is the west. The nine -

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story apartment, uh, immediately to the west is Anne Lane,

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the nine story further to the west would be the

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crown condo building. Following down along Queen, the 23 story

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apartment is homestead's building that's constructed. The 19 story building

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is under construction right now. And just at the corner

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of Barrick and Wellington, there is a 25 story approved

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building, not yet built. Just giving you a sense of

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some of the transition that is occurring in the core

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of the downtown right now. All applications have to be

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consistent with the provincial planning statement. And the planning statement

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focuses on complete communities and housing supply and encourages municipalities

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to be very efficient with their land use. And particularly

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lands that are serviced. And it encourages a range of

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housing. And it would certainly identify places like Kingston's downtown

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as areas of higher density where residential growth should occur.

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So when we move into the official plan, we see

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those same themes of provincial policy carried forward. We see

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this designated as a central business district area. It permits

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the widest range of uses in the city. It permits

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the high density residential uses. And it's identified as an

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area where the city will intensify in a mixed use

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fashion. And on this site in particular, there is a

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requirement for ground floor commercial use. And the requirement for

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that transit - oriented and pedestrian - friendly urban design,

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those podium level, uh, important functions. You know, as we

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move deeper into official plan policy, we can see how

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the site is designated in the downtown in Harbour specific

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policy area, which highlights additional details on that downtown and

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business district. And again, you're seeing the echoing of that

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intensification and mixed use higher order development that is to

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occur in the downtown. When we look at this next

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slide, you can see that this area of the downtown

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is not impacting heritage and view planes that the city

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has established. Looking at the zoning bylaw, as I mentioned

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in an earlier slide, half of the site, the staples

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property remains under the old 1996 bylaw. And the couple

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of townhouses that are long Beark Street are in the

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new bylaw. And under that, old bylaw, the maximum permission

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is four stories with an angular plane that would allow

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a building up to 25 and a half stories on

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that staples site. So when we move forward with the

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project itself, this is a project that we believe is

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an underutilized site in a strategic location. And so the

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project that we're presenting to you tonight, we believe reinforces

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that walkable and transit supportive downtown community. And it follows

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design principles that the city has established. With the articulated

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podium. And Ray will be speaking more to that about

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the design elements, uh, in a moment. But it does

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follow those complete community principles that are established in the

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official plan. And so, Ray, I'm going to turn it

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over to you to speak about some of the building

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statistics and design elements. And you just, this is the

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clicker in the centre there. Good evening. My name's Raymond

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Zaybak. I'm an architect working out of Kingston. Here we've

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been in business in Kingston for about 37 years. Worked

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on many projects around the area. And, uh, specifically projects

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in the downtown area. So we, um, we sort of

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know the terrain. I'm just going to explain the project

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quickly. Mike's touched on a bit of this. So, uh,

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that's slides a good one. Sort of captures the, um,

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the whole project from above. It's comprised of a six

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- story podium with a single - story street -

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level commercial floor. Separated at the through block with a

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through block laneway for shipping and receiving. With two 19

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- story residential towers, placed at 90 degrees to one

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another. On opposite ends of an L - shaped site,

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the towers are separated by approximately 25 metres or about

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82 feet at the corners. The fifth and sixth story

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of the podium are further recessed to reduce the scale

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of the podium to a street wall of four stories.

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So in total, the building's 24 stories, including the podium.

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Not including penthouse, mechanical penthouse, which at this point we've

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positioned on top of each building. So the residential towers

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are set back 15. 8 metres. From the adjacent property

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in Queen Street in 22 and a half metres from

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the adjacent property on barrack Street, the two edges of

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the property. There's a large retail commercial space that occupies

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the entire ground floor, except that laneway I talked about.

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It provides space for 25, 000 square foot retail store,

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approximately the size of the small, I think, slightly larger

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than the existing staple store. Um, and a 15, 000

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square foot easterly, um, commercial space on that ground floor.

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The intention here is that the staples star will remain

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on the property. The commercial space are designed that they

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can be subdivided into smaller spaces. We want the typical

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problems when we have large commercial spaces downtown. Is there

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not easily divisible into smaller units if the large tenant

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leaves? Uh, so design specifically to accommodate that purpose. Pedestrian

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access when the apartments is gained through lobbies and elevator

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cores located at the extreme corners of the property. It'd

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be one elevator core entrance for public on Queen Street.

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At the corner of Queen and Baggett. Our Queen and

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Baggett, yes. And the other at the northeast corner of

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the site. On Beark Street. And the reason that's done

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is, um, we are trying to provide unencumbered space within

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those big retail plates on the ground floor. So keeping

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the podiums at the extreme corners of the site. The

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second through sixth story of the podium of apartments facing

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barrick street Queens Baggett Street and Queen Street. So their

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apartments facing all the streets. You won't see parking garage.

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You know, cars visible from the street. This is all

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parking, sorry, all residential units in those locations with eyes

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on the street. There are outdoor amenity spaces planned for

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the roofs of the building. You can see on the

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top of the fourth floor, uh, the dark green indication

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there. This is our intention to be that would be

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rooftop amenity space on that level. There would be rooftop

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amenity space on the sixth level. And in behind the

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tower on the left there, you're looking, that's an image

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looking from barrack Street side of the building. In behind

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that building is another rooftop, which is, um, intended to

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be, uh. I'm an outdoor amenity space. Are those amenity

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spaces are adjacent to indoor amenity spaces within the buildings.

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Uh, on the site, the underground parking for 536 vehicles

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in underground, uh, I think somebody indicated they were to

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forced or is actually three stories of underground parking. So

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the three and a half stories. We have sloping parking

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decks, but it, um, about three stories of, um, real

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estate being taken out of the ground to provide the

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parking. Uh, 165 spaces for residential. That's a 0. 3

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to one parking ratio. Access to parking. You can see

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here Rito Street is the middle street at the lower

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left. There is a parking ramp which accesses the parking.

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It's directly opposite the end of Reedle Street. Bicycle parking.

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There's 549 bicycle parking spaces. Uh, planned for the site.

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62 of those would be short term bicycle spaces. Shipping

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receiving an apartment moving will be done on the interior

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of the site midway through the block there. You'll see

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the entrance on the left is the parking ramp entrance.

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00:17:59,807 --> 00:18:04,127
The entrance further to the west is the entrance to

241
00:18:04,127 --> 00:18:09,487
a through block Laneway. And this will accommodate loading and

242
00:18:09,487 --> 00:18:14,607
services for the commercial spaces. It all provides areas where

243
00:18:15,188 --> 00:18:19,007
apartment dwelled can move into their units can park off

244
00:18:19,047 --> 00:18:25,349
the street, move into their units offload there. So all

245
00:18:25,389 --> 00:18:28,149
of the, all of those services are internal in the

246
00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:34,712
site. And negotiation of large vehicles. On the surrounding streets.

247
00:18:34,712 --> 00:18:36,792
So currently occurs there, I think with staples, that will

248
00:18:36,792 --> 00:18:44,770
be eliminated through this proposal. The four story podium might

249
00:18:44,810 --> 00:18:47,410
touch on that. And I'll see some slides from street

250
00:18:47,450 --> 00:18:50,050
level in a moment. The four story podium is articulated

251
00:18:50,791 --> 00:18:55,330
vertically and horizontally to create a streetscape scale trip gestion.

252
00:18:55,330 --> 00:19:00,370
I mentioned the four story street wall on this building.

253
00:19:00,370 --> 00:19:04,530
Everything is recessed back from that, um, that forest story

254
00:19:04,570 --> 00:19:07,290
podium. And this podium actually drops down in spots. So

255
00:19:07,290 --> 00:19:11,490
the, um, we don't just have a big pancake of,

256
00:19:11,511 --> 00:19:14,450
of building on the ground with two towers protruding out

257
00:19:14,490 --> 00:19:19,010
of the top of it. We have, um, unarticulated facade

258
00:19:19,050 --> 00:19:22,850
along the street. She gives a more interesting and lively

259
00:19:22,890 --> 00:19:27,131
streetscape. I mentioned the amenity spaces at the fourth floor

260
00:19:27,131 --> 00:19:33,384
level. Um. There are some design components that we hope

261
00:19:33,405 --> 00:19:36,664
sort of respect some of the historic elements that are

262
00:19:36,664 --> 00:19:40,179
unique to the city of Kingston. One, of course, the

263
00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:45,081
surface materials. We're intending to use masonry. On the podium

264
00:19:45,262 --> 00:19:48,376
level of the building. Uh, that would be the brick

265
00:19:48,416 --> 00:19:55,312
or stone. In various different mass and components. Um, also

266
00:19:55,333 --> 00:19:59,472
the curved corners. Your interesting Kingston has some as renowned

267
00:19:59,512 --> 00:20:02,912
for a few buildings with some, um, beautiful curved corners.

268
00:20:02,912 --> 00:20:05,952
The S and R building, um, the old Victorian grey

269
00:20:05,992 --> 00:20:09,212
building on the corner of Wellington and Brock Street, for

270
00:20:09,212 --> 00:20:13,792
example, as well as Yoda LaSalle Hotel, which unfortunately was

271
00:20:13,792 --> 00:20:16,672
torn down years ago. But another curved building, what was

272
00:20:16,672 --> 00:20:18,732
the Bank of Nova Scotia that took its place? And

273
00:20:18,732 --> 00:20:21,392
I think it's now the bulk barn that occupies that,

274
00:20:21,392 --> 00:20:26,204
uh, that building. So this is those curved corners. They're

275
00:20:26,204 --> 00:20:28,764
practical, but they're in reference to some of the sort

276
00:20:28,764 --> 00:20:33,769
of unique architectural heritage features in the city. With regard

277
00:20:33,769 --> 00:20:36,729
to the immediate context, and we'll see some slides that

278
00:20:36,729 --> 00:20:39,449
illustrate this in a moment. The podium reduces the height

279
00:20:39,489 --> 00:20:42,692
at its edges along baric and Queen Street. To match

280
00:20:42,732 --> 00:20:47,012
the lower scale and fenestration of the adjacent historic structures

281
00:20:47,033 --> 00:20:53,000
there. So I'm going to just pan through some pan

282
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,486
through some other slides. This is the view from the

283
00:20:57,486 --> 00:21:00,606
other side. You can see the lower level, the second

284
00:21:00,947 --> 00:21:06,206
story amenity space tucked in to the, um, to the

285
00:21:06,246 --> 00:21:11,777
90 degree. Podium there. Uh, there are department certainly to

286
00:21:11,777 --> 00:21:15,577
balconies as well. And on that slide, one of the

287
00:21:15,577 --> 00:21:17,677
interesting things is the through block connection. You can see

288
00:21:17,717 --> 00:21:20,477
coming out onto Queen Street from the through block Laneway.

289
00:21:22,959 --> 00:21:25,790
So this is a plan of the building. Um, you

290
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:29,070
can see the two large commercial spaces on the left.

291
00:21:29,091 --> 00:21:31,950
That's about 25, 000 square feet. You can see how

292
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:36,030
the trucks would come into the, um, the service lane

293
00:21:36,131 --> 00:21:39,950
load into that building, also loading provisions for the smaller

294
00:21:39,990 --> 00:21:43,496
retail space to 15, 000 retail spacer commercial space. On

295
00:21:43,517 --> 00:21:47,176
the top right there. You can see the building cores,

296
00:21:47,176 --> 00:21:50,696
the entrances to the apartments at the bottom of that

297
00:21:50,717 --> 00:21:53,896
plan and at the top right corner. You can also

298
00:21:53,917 --> 00:21:56,856
see the parking ramp opposite Rito Street there, which takes

299
00:21:56,856 --> 00:22:02,733
you down to the lower parking levels. This is a

300
00:22:02,733 --> 00:22:09,549
view looking northwest along Queen Street. I think this slide

301
00:22:09,650 --> 00:22:12,989
tries to illustrate the scaling down of the building as

302
00:22:13,010 --> 00:22:16,749
you round the corner from, uh, Bagot Street onto Queen

303
00:22:16,749 --> 00:22:19,909
Street in this location. Bringing the building down to the

304
00:22:20,090 --> 00:22:29,326
scale of the existing historic rojas along that street. This

305
00:22:29,587 --> 00:22:32,926
is Barrick Street in Baggett Street. Another curved corner there.

306
00:22:32,926 --> 00:22:35,486
This might be the location. I mean, entrance to the

307
00:22:36,707 --> 00:22:39,593
larger retail store. And you can see this, I think

308
00:22:39,614 --> 00:22:42,793
this illustrates well, our intention to a sort of articulate

309
00:22:42,833 --> 00:22:48,046
that base in the building. Um, with shape and material.

310
00:22:51,310 --> 00:22:56,173
This is looking west on Bear Street. We are, um,

311
00:22:57,014 --> 00:23:00,833
we will have to modify the two existing houses there

312
00:23:00,934 --> 00:23:03,793
at the end of that, um, where it touches our

313
00:23:03,833 --> 00:23:07,237
new building. That's the location of the parking ramp, which

314
00:23:07,338 --> 00:23:10,820
takes you down into the parking level. And again, you

315
00:23:10,820 --> 00:23:13,700
can see the articulation of the, uh, of the building

316
00:23:13,721 --> 00:23:23,461
facade and the step back. To the higher towers. This

317
00:23:23,482 --> 00:23:28,341
is the same view sort of turned, uh, looking more

318
00:23:28,442 --> 00:23:31,403
southerly. That what it looks like garage door, a glass

319
00:23:31,443 --> 00:23:33,723
garage door, that is the actual entrance to the parking

320
00:23:33,763 --> 00:23:37,975
garage. There would be an apartment residential apartment above that

321
00:23:38,076 --> 00:23:41,671
space. Uh, that would be a walk up from the

322
00:23:41,852 --> 00:23:44,471
street level. That would not be connected by the corridor

323
00:23:44,471 --> 00:23:45,431
of the apartment building.

324
00:23:59,588 --> 00:24:03,007
All right. Thanks, Ray. Just a couple more slides to

325
00:24:03,047 --> 00:24:06,900
get into the questions here. And so this is, this

326
00:24:07,321 --> 00:24:10,980
is our opinion about, about the plan and how it

327
00:24:11,020 --> 00:24:14,975
meets some of the core urban design principles. In terms

328
00:24:15,156 --> 00:24:18,815
of looking at that skyline. And if you know the

329
00:24:18,855 --> 00:24:22,655
city's policies, you know the bunch of historic points where,

330
00:24:22,655 --> 00:24:25,695
where you look back at the city. And so that

331
00:24:25,735 --> 00:24:29,855
also, uh, is part of orienting the towers, uh, to

332
00:24:30,116 --> 00:24:33,295
frame in that, that view from city hall. It's behind

333
00:24:33,636 --> 00:24:41,605
City Hall not blocking city hall. So the, the whole

334
00:24:41,645 --> 00:24:45,125
reason that we're here this evening is because we need

335
00:24:45,466 --> 00:24:49,445
a site specific zoning bylaw amendment, uh, to bring this

336
00:24:49,546 --> 00:24:54,278
plan into conformity with the official plan. And so we

337
00:24:54,619 --> 00:24:57,238
want to bring the new, we want to bring the

338
00:24:57,259 --> 00:25:00,838
property into the new bylaw. So removing it from that

339
00:25:01,099 --> 00:25:05,958
1996 bylaw and bring the entire site in. And at

340
00:25:05,958 --> 00:25:08,678
the same time, we would be dealing with our site

341
00:25:08,859 --> 00:25:11,798
specific provisions to deal with the height that we're asking

342
00:25:11,979 --> 00:25:16,998
for to deal with the parking requirements to deal with

343
00:25:17,419 --> 00:25:23,718
certain modifications to amenity areas, not reducing the amenity area,

344
00:25:23,718 --> 00:25:28,038
but the shapes. And just a few more technical natures,

345
00:25:28,038 --> 00:25:34,809
which is the nature of a zoning bylaw amendment. And

346
00:25:34,809 --> 00:25:38,329
if you've been to the city's website, uh, their dash

347
00:25:38,329 --> 00:25:41,689
hub has all of our materials on it, uh, which

348
00:25:41,729 --> 00:25:46,169
are publicly available. I've just listed off, uh, the studies

349
00:25:46,670 --> 00:25:56,391
that are included with our application. And as public

350
00:25:56,492 --> 00:25:59,751
comments have been coming in, uh, the city has been

351
00:25:59,852 --> 00:26:04,333
sharing those with us. And so I, I have grouped

352
00:26:04,754 --> 00:26:08,253
some of these comments into themes, which you see on

353
00:26:08,354 --> 00:26:14,173
the screen of noise and unit mix, traffic loading, heritage

354
00:26:14,754 --> 00:26:19,453
and shadows. And I want to talk noise first because

355
00:26:19,453 --> 00:26:22,013
I think with the comments that I was seeing, there

356
00:26:22,013 --> 00:26:26,013
is a slight misunderstanding in that, that we're asking for

357
00:26:26,274 --> 00:26:31,534
a class four designation, uh, on this property. And what

358
00:26:31,955 --> 00:26:36,094
that means is that's because the neighbourhood is noisy. It's

359
00:26:36,115 --> 00:26:40,841
not because our building is noisy. And so the ministry

360
00:26:41,182 --> 00:26:44,281
of environment and recognising that we do want to see

361
00:26:45,102 --> 00:26:51,001
infelling occur in locations like downtowns, which are noisier places.

362
00:26:51,001 --> 00:26:57,721
They allow, uh, they allow for noise exceedances. Um, and

363
00:26:58,062 --> 00:27:00,201
what that means is that the building will have to

364
00:27:00,222 --> 00:27:05,401
have, uh, air conditioning for every unit, you know, windows

365
00:27:05,822 --> 00:27:09,401
could potentially be triple pain rather than double, double pain

366
00:27:09,582 --> 00:27:11,801
as an example, but it is, it is a way

367
00:27:11,902 --> 00:27:16,041
of, um, making sure the building for the residents that

368
00:27:16,081 --> 00:27:22,378
live there, uh, is dealt with. Appropriately. We are currently

369
00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:26,858
working on the reverse. There was a comment saying, well,

370
00:27:26,879 --> 00:27:30,652
like how noisy is this building going to be. Typically,

371
00:27:30,652 --> 00:27:33,612
we don't know that answer until we get into detailed

372
00:27:33,652 --> 00:27:37,692
design. And we select the types of air handler units

373
00:27:37,793 --> 00:27:40,781
and things that go on a building like this. Um,

374
00:27:40,821 --> 00:27:45,101
but, but recognising the questions in that regard. We are

375
00:27:45,122 --> 00:27:52,361
having our noise consultant test, uh, test some materials, you

376
00:27:52,361 --> 00:27:55,261
know, for air handling and that that would be common

377
00:27:55,842 --> 00:27:58,301
to a building of this scale so that we can

378
00:27:58,402 --> 00:28:04,124
generate some of that information. Now unit mix right now

379
00:28:04,145 --> 00:28:09,164
is most certainly weighted toward one bedroom units. And we

380
00:28:09,164 --> 00:28:12,284
have two, we have 62 bedroom units. And really we

381
00:28:12,284 --> 00:28:14,924
only have two, three bedroom units, uh, in the proposal

382
00:28:15,025 --> 00:28:17,630
right now. But there's two things I want to point

383
00:28:17,670 --> 00:28:20,910
out. The reason that those are the unit mixes that

384
00:28:21,091 --> 00:28:24,030
we're proposing our, because that's what the market says we

385
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:27,150
need in Kingston right now based on the other units

386
00:28:27,251 --> 00:28:32,430
that have been built. But the final unit mix will

387
00:28:32,531 --> 00:28:35,230
be subject to change. Like it will, we won't really

388
00:28:35,270 --> 00:28:39,070
know the final unit mix until the site plan control.

389
00:28:39,572 --> 00:28:44,351
So by designating with a lower, like a higher number

390
00:28:44,452 --> 00:28:49,151
of the smaller units ensures that we're assessing appropriately for

391
00:28:49,172 --> 00:28:55,266
things like amenity space and parking. Now there were some

392
00:28:55,287 --> 00:28:58,866
comments. There's, there's fear of traffic, like how much worse

393
00:28:58,967 --> 00:29:02,626
it's going to be, but what our traffic consultant has

394
00:29:02,887 --> 00:29:06,786
noted, you know, the whole site is offsite. There's no

395
00:29:07,527 --> 00:29:11,026
surface parking anymore. All the loading is entirely off -

396
00:29:11,026 --> 00:29:13,666
site. There will be no more backing up on city

397
00:29:13,767 --> 00:29:17,666
streets. There will be full service from within the site

398
00:29:18,407 --> 00:29:23,506
itself. So there were no concerns of parking and traffic

399
00:29:23,527 --> 00:29:26,466
congestion in that way. And I think it's also important

400
00:29:26,727 --> 00:29:32,226
to note that we are proposing a substantial amount of

401
00:29:32,407 --> 00:29:36,786
underground parking on this site. You know, with the hope

402
00:29:36,967 --> 00:29:41,246
that some of that space will become publicly available, uh,

403
00:29:41,246 --> 00:29:45,186
to help the downtown and it's, you know, it's broader

404
00:29:45,226 --> 00:29:51,343
parking needs, uh, that are required. You know, there are,

405
00:29:51,343 --> 00:29:55,823
there are comments about heritage. And I think race boat

406
00:29:55,823 --> 00:29:58,872
quite well to some of the design features. We worked

407
00:29:58,973 --> 00:30:04,152
closely with heritage consultants and coming up with this design

408
00:30:04,573 --> 00:30:08,532
and reviewing, uh, how the building is laid out. And

409
00:30:08,653 --> 00:30:13,985
those materials are available on dash to review. You know,

410
00:30:14,246 --> 00:30:19,025
I mentioned, uh, shadows, you know, shadows are always a

411
00:30:19,046 --> 00:30:24,525
concern when we're introducing tall buildings in a downtown. And

412
00:30:24,886 --> 00:30:27,905
I'm, I'm by no means going to tell you there's

413
00:30:27,926 --> 00:30:30,385
zero impact because that's not the case. There will be

414
00:30:30,385 --> 00:30:34,465
a change. And there are parameters that are set up,

415
00:30:34,465 --> 00:30:37,105
uh, that we follow when we're citing the buildings and

416
00:30:37,105 --> 00:30:42,785
reviewing. And these buildings pass those, those criteria that are

417
00:30:42,806 --> 00:30:51,154
set up in that regard. So to conclude, it's my

418
00:30:51,154 --> 00:30:53,794
opinion as a planner that this is good land use

419
00:30:53,815 --> 00:30:58,034
planning and that the zoning bylaw amendment is representative of

420
00:30:58,034 --> 00:31:01,954
the changes that are needing. It's consistent with the provincial

421
00:31:01,994 --> 00:31:06,409
planning statement. It's in conformity with the official plan. And

422
00:31:06,409 --> 00:31:11,069
it's going to introduce another opportunity for mixed use high

423
00:31:11,109 --> 00:31:19,058
density, uh, downtown. So that concludes our presentation. And I

424
00:31:19,058 --> 00:31:21,058
will sit beside Ray as we take the rounds of

425
00:31:21,159 --> 00:31:30,823
comments. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Uh, we'll

426
00:31:30,823 --> 00:31:32,583
now turn to members of the public. We are going

427
00:31:32,583 --> 00:31:36,023
to start with people who are in this room. And

428
00:31:36,023 --> 00:31:37,783
then after we have five speakers, we're going to go

429
00:31:37,964 --> 00:31:40,823
online for five more speakers. If you are in the

430
00:31:40,844 --> 00:31:42,983
room and would like to speak, could you just raise

431
00:31:43,023 --> 00:31:44,263
a hand so I have a sense of how many

432
00:31:44,303 --> 00:31:47,944
people we might have, give or take. Okay. Thank you.

433
00:31:47,944 --> 00:31:49,784
We have three people in the chairs already. I need

434
00:31:49,885 --> 00:31:52,664
two more people to come into these chairs, please. I'm

435
00:31:52,704 --> 00:31:54,344
going to start at the end and we'll work our

436
00:31:54,344 --> 00:31:56,984
way down. When it's your turn, you can turn on

437
00:31:56,984 --> 00:31:59,384
your microphone. Like I said at the start, the light

438
00:31:59,424 --> 00:32:02,104
will turn red. You'll have five minutes to speak and

439
00:32:02,104 --> 00:32:03,464
I'll give you a heads up when you only have

440
00:32:03,565 --> 00:32:05,464
30 seconds left. So I'm not interrupting you, but I'm

441
00:32:05,464 --> 00:32:07,864
just letting you know your time's coming too close. Okay.

442
00:32:08,552 --> 00:32:13,792
Thank you. Oh, just up there. There's three. Yep. And

443
00:32:13,832 --> 00:32:15,712
the one more chair open as well if someone else

444
00:32:15,752 --> 00:32:17,552
would like to come and sit to speak. I know

445
00:32:17,573 --> 00:32:20,352
it's nervous wracking being one of the first, but you

446
00:32:20,352 --> 00:32:22,112
can do it. Okay. We're going to start here. Please

447
00:32:22,213 --> 00:32:24,112
state your name for the record and then I'll start

448
00:32:24,112 --> 00:32:26,272
your five minutes. Thank you. Good evening. My name is

449
00:32:26,293 --> 00:32:29,232
Avon Lee Martin and I'm here tonight because I believe

450
00:32:29,413 --> 00:32:33,152
we need to have a serious conversation about responsible development

451
00:32:33,573 --> 00:32:36,832
looks in downtown Kingston. I want to be clear this

452
00:32:36,832 --> 00:32:40,192
is not about being opposed to development or housing. Kingston

453
00:32:40,213 --> 00:32:42,892
needs housing. But we need the right housing and the

454
00:32:42,892 --> 00:32:46,592
right places supported by the infrastructure required to sustain it.

455
00:32:46,592 --> 00:32:50,832
The disproposal would add 536 rental units and two 24

456
00:32:51,253 --> 00:32:53,792
story towers and an already dense and historic part of

457
00:32:53,893 --> 00:32:57,952
downtown. The surrounding streets are narrow aging and already heavily

458
00:32:58,053 --> 00:33:01,392
used. And there are serious concerns about whether existing storm

459
00:33:01,653 --> 00:33:05,379
and COR infrastructure can support development of this magnitude. Density

460
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,459
without adequate infrastructure is not responsible planning. And density without

461
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,179
the housing Kingston actually needs as not solving our housing

462
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,219
problem. The 536 proposed units only 60 are two bedroom

463
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,339
units and just two are three bedroom units. There's also

464
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,555
no proportion at allocation of affordable units identified. So we

465
00:33:24,555 --> 00:33:26,875
need to ask, who are we building the city for?

466
00:33:26,875 --> 00:33:29,275
Where are the homes for families? Where are the genuinely

467
00:33:29,296 --> 00:33:32,235
affordable units? Where are the housing options that allow people

468
00:33:32,275 --> 00:33:35,195
to put down roots and remain in Kingston? And why

469
00:33:35,195 --> 00:33:38,842
aren't we seriously exploring other desirable forms of housing. There

470
00:33:38,882 --> 00:33:41,482
is more than one way to create density. We can

471
00:33:41,522 --> 00:33:44,442
add much needed housing while still respecting the scale and

472
00:33:44,482 --> 00:33:47,322
character of existing neighbourhoods and providing the kinds of homes

473
00:33:47,343 --> 00:33:50,267
Kingston residents actually need. We also need to talk about

474
00:33:50,288 --> 00:33:53,467
the people who already live here. This is an established

475
00:33:53,648 --> 00:33:57,707
residential neighbourhood. We live here. We pay property taxes here.

476
00:33:57,707 --> 00:34:00,327
We have invested in our homes and our community. And

477
00:34:00,368 --> 00:34:02,747
one of the most significant impacts of these towers will

478
00:34:02,787 --> 00:34:04,907
be the loss of sunlight and natural light for existing

479
00:34:05,008 --> 00:34:09,456
residents and business owners. Many surrounding residences and businesses receive

480
00:34:09,477 --> 00:34:13,456
natural light from only one side. Existing buildings already cast

481
00:34:13,496 --> 00:34:17,216
significant morning shadow and adding two 24 story towers with

482
00:34:17,216 --> 00:34:21,536
dramatically intensify that impact. Potentially leaving neighbouring properties without any

483
00:34:21,797 --> 00:34:24,416
direct sunlight. I find it telling that none of the

484
00:34:24,437 --> 00:34:27,456
pictures in your presentation show the massive impact on the

485
00:34:27,717 --> 00:34:30,896
Andylene condo building. And this is more about losing a

486
00:34:31,077 --> 00:34:34,256
pleasant view or a little morning sun. Permanent shadow changes

487
00:34:34,296 --> 00:34:37,536
the environment of an entire neighbourhood. Trees, gardens and other

488
00:34:37,536 --> 00:34:41,136
vegetation that currently depend on sunlight could struggle or die.

489
00:34:41,136 --> 00:34:43,696
Well, residents and businesses would be left with darker spaces

490
00:34:43,736 --> 00:34:46,896
and a fundamentally altered quality of life. Once these towers

491
00:34:46,896 --> 00:34:49,856
are built to that sunlight is gone permanently. We cannot

492
00:34:49,877 --> 00:34:52,896
replace a mature trees and vegetation that die because their

493
00:34:52,896 --> 00:34:55,216
environment has changed and we cannot restore natural light to

494
00:34:55,256 --> 00:34:57,296
homes that have been placed in shadow. We have to

495
00:34:57,317 --> 00:35:00,416
ask whether sacrificing the light greenery and quality of life

496
00:35:00,757 --> 00:35:03,456
of an existing neighbourhood is a really inacceptable price for

497
00:35:03,637 --> 00:35:06,946
maximizing the height and density of one development. And we

498
00:35:06,986 --> 00:35:09,826
cannot keep saying that because other high rises have already

499
00:35:09,847 --> 00:35:13,186
been approved. Another one is acceptable. That should make us

500
00:35:13,207 --> 00:35:16,786
more concerned about the cumulative impact of concentrating mega high

501
00:35:16,826 --> 00:35:20,306
rises within the small area, not less concerned. At what

502
00:35:20,346 --> 00:35:23,068
point do we say enough. Kingston should grow, but growth

503
00:35:23,068 --> 00:35:25,788
does not mean that every available downtown property needs to

504
00:35:25,828 --> 00:35:29,948
become another 20 plus story tower. We need thoughtful intensification

505
00:35:30,049 --> 00:35:33,548
across our city. Mid - rise development townhomes, family -

506
00:35:33,548 --> 00:35:36,268
size departments, affordable housing, and a greater diversity of housing

507
00:35:36,369 --> 00:35:39,548
options. So I'm asking Council and City staff not simply

508
00:35:39,588 --> 00:35:42,668
to ask, can we fit this development here? Askin said,

509
00:35:42,668 --> 00:35:45,468
is this the right development for this location for the

510
00:35:45,508 --> 00:35:48,988
people who already live here and for Kingston that we

511
00:35:49,089 --> 00:35:52,268
want to build? Kingston needs housing, but we deserve development

512
00:35:52,449 --> 00:35:55,628
that provides the housing or community actually needs. Respects the

513
00:35:55,668 --> 00:36:00,028
infrastructure we actually have and recognises that existing residents matter

514
00:36:00,449 --> 00:36:03,519
too. We should not have to lose our quality of

515
00:36:03,519 --> 00:36:06,559
life so that a developer can gain more stories. Thank

516
00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:16,427
you. Okay, thank you. I fully understand the desire to

517
00:36:16,448 --> 00:36:19,467
clap. However, because this is a business meeting, we can't

518
00:36:19,888 --> 00:36:22,507
do it. So if you could just praise quietly in

519
00:36:22,507 --> 00:36:24,107
your head, it would be much appreciated. Thank you for

520
00:36:24,208 --> 00:36:26,987
being respectful. We'll go to our next speaker. Please state

521
00:36:27,027 --> 00:36:28,747
your name and you have five minutes. I'll let you

522
00:36:28,747 --> 00:36:31,067
know when you have 30 seconds left. Thank you. I'm

523
00:36:31,088 --> 00:36:34,520
Donna Johnson. I live at my husband and I. Oh,

524
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,840
sorry. Is that okay? Hello, my name is Donna Johnson

525
00:36:39,181 --> 00:36:44,272
and my husband Shane Dark. Just a bit closer. How's

526
00:36:44,272 --> 00:36:47,704
that? All right. Is that good? There we go. There

527
00:36:47,704 --> 00:36:51,289
we go. Okay. One more time. Uh, my name is

528
00:36:51,310 --> 00:36:54,409
Donna Johnson and my husband and I live in the

529
00:36:54,670 --> 00:37:02,711
Annalaine development on Baggett Street. I have many concerns, much

530
00:37:02,711 --> 00:37:08,711
like Avenle regarding this proposed by La Amendment, uh, by

531
00:37:08,711 --> 00:37:11,751
the way. I also know I only have five minutes.

532
00:37:11,751 --> 00:37:15,398
So basically I'm going to concentrate on key issues. That

533
00:37:15,438 --> 00:37:20,558
have a cumulative effect. Of this massive development. And also

534
00:37:20,899 --> 00:37:23,838
firstly, I would like to request a peer review of

535
00:37:23,878 --> 00:37:27,327
the Heritage Study. Uh, because I saw a lot of

536
00:37:27,668 --> 00:37:36,977
discrepancies between the reports. Secondly regarding mass massing and density.

537
00:37:36,977 --> 00:37:42,454
The development roses net density of approximately 841 units. Per

538
00:37:42,635 --> 00:37:49,443
hectare. The city plan allows for 123 units per hectare.

539
00:37:49,443 --> 00:37:53,186
That is seven times greater. Than what the city plan

540
00:37:53,527 --> 00:37:59,050
allows for. That's a huge increase. Also noise impact, um,

541
00:37:59,171 --> 00:38:02,350
the gentleman mentioned that they'll do all kinds of triple

542
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:06,367
painting, et cetera. To make it livable for the tenants

543
00:38:06,407 --> 00:38:09,887
who are going to live there in a C for,

544
00:38:09,887 --> 00:38:15,549
um, a class four noise environment. Well, with both the

545
00:38:15,549 --> 00:38:19,789
people who live around this building, we have, uh, the

546
00:38:19,789 --> 00:38:23,909
ability to change all our windows to triple pain. We

547
00:38:23,909 --> 00:38:27,291
have balconies that we enjoy. And what kind of enjoyment

548
00:38:27,472 --> 00:38:30,491
are we going to have once we're in that kind

549
00:38:30,491 --> 00:38:36,825
of noise volume. Um, class four is a maximum noise

550
00:38:37,086 --> 00:38:42,585
allowed province wide. And a downtown, this is downtown heritage

551
00:38:42,926 --> 00:38:49,149
Kingston. And not downtown Toronto. Another thing I do have

552
00:38:49,250 --> 00:38:53,869
a slide presentation. If you can, um, it's under my

553
00:38:53,909 --> 00:39:03,152
name. So it's around shadowing. And light deprivation. So next

554
00:39:03,253 --> 00:39:09,154
slide, please. So that particular slide there is giving you

555
00:39:09,335 --> 00:39:13,394
an illustration of March 21st at 8 a. m. So

556
00:39:13,495 --> 00:39:17,074
as you can see, it reaches right over to Belle

557
00:39:17,095 --> 00:39:21,777
Lava Street, which is right next to MacBony Park. And

558
00:39:21,817 --> 00:39:27,857
it covers Balaclava Bay Street, Sydden Street, Montreal Street, ordinate

559
00:39:27,958 --> 00:39:31,217
Street Baggett Street and Beark Street, as well as St.

560
00:39:31,257 --> 00:39:35,590
Paul's Church and adjacent properties northwest of the development. And

561
00:39:35,630 --> 00:39:38,710
when you look at that slide, look at the orange

562
00:39:39,771 --> 00:39:44,230
outline there. That tells you, it illustrates the shadowing from

563
00:39:44,331 --> 00:39:48,550
the approved towers already along Queen at Bark. This creates

564
00:39:48,571 --> 00:39:53,030
a huge area of light deprivation to a significant number

565
00:39:53,051 --> 00:39:57,761
of residents in the neighbourhood. An example I put there

566
00:39:57,862 --> 00:40:02,377
is the limestone terraces heritage. On the corner of Montreal

567
00:40:02,558 --> 00:40:06,617
and ordinance. They only have two sides to their windows.

568
00:40:06,617 --> 00:40:10,051
The front and the back. So their front facing windows

569
00:40:10,091 --> 00:40:13,571
will basically have no morning light for three quarters of

570
00:40:13,571 --> 00:40:20,281
the year. That is extreme light deprefation. Next slide, please.

571
00:40:20,921 --> 00:40:24,180
This one, um, is on June 21st. So the longest

572
00:40:24,201 --> 00:40:26,900
day of the year. And even on the longest day

573
00:40:26,940 --> 00:40:30,260
of the year, Annalene and St. Paul's is in shadow.

574
00:40:33,226 --> 00:40:38,845
Next slide. This one is, um, September 21st, or around

575
00:40:38,866 --> 00:40:42,360
this time of year, massive shadowing. And you can see

576
00:40:43,101 --> 00:40:46,920
it, um, it, the greatest extent of the morning period

577
00:40:47,821 --> 00:40:51,560
affects portions of Montreal Street Bagat Street St Paul's Church

578
00:40:51,981 --> 00:40:54,680
and west of the development beyond Sidnam Street. It doesn't

579
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,500
even illustrate it how far it goes. And then next

580
00:40:59,540 --> 00:41:05,310
slide. So again, this is another slide on December 21st.

581
00:41:05,310 --> 00:41:08,150
The shortest day of the year at 9 a. m.

582
00:41:08,291 --> 00:41:11,070
the shadows reach their greatest extent of the morning period

583
00:41:11,251 --> 00:41:16,030
affecting portions of, again, ballot clav street by Bernie Park.

584
00:41:16,703 --> 00:41:19,962
Bay Street Sydden of Street. Montreal Street or Street Bagger

585
00:41:20,002 --> 00:41:25,014
Street and Park Street as well as church. And adjacent

586
00:41:25,054 --> 00:41:29,894
properties northwest of the development at 11 a. m. shadows

587
00:41:30,075 --> 00:41:34,614
impact remain evident on the portions of ordinance street, Baggett

588
00:41:34,654 --> 00:41:39,942
Street and Bear Street. The Heritage Impact Study concluded that

589
00:41:40,283 --> 00:41:43,222
although the redevelopment will result in a noticeable change to

590
00:41:43,262 --> 00:41:48,102
the area, it will not adversely impact a Jace inheritage

591
00:41:48,123 --> 00:41:54,422
resources or properties with known or potential cultural heritage. Five

592
00:41:54,422 --> 00:41:56,822
minutes, I'm sorry. Is it? Oh, I did. I missed

593
00:41:56,822 --> 00:41:59,942
it. Okay. Sorry. All right. Thank you. Thank you. I

594
00:41:59,942 --> 00:42:01,462
will go to our next speaker. Please state your name

595
00:42:01,963 --> 00:42:04,502
and you have five minutes. Yeah. And we'll just make

596
00:42:04,502 --> 00:42:06,982
sure. Yes. Thank you for turning that off. No problem.

597
00:42:07,003 --> 00:42:10,562
Um, I'm Peter McCantie. I identify myself as Aiden. Um,

598
00:42:10,683 --> 00:42:13,222
so I'll repeat what I told the mayor about a

599
00:42:13,222 --> 00:42:16,102
couple of years ago, which is, um, unless you can

600
00:42:16,142 --> 00:42:20,502
afford a budget a subway through solid granite in the

601
00:42:20,502 --> 00:42:24,822
downtown core were basically out of road space to build

602
00:42:25,323 --> 00:42:28,022
a upgrade or transit network. Like right now we have

603
00:42:28,203 --> 00:42:32,022
so many buses already going downtown and traffic's already getting

604
00:42:32,062 --> 00:42:34,662
pretty tight. Um, but the other thing I also want

605
00:42:34,662 --> 00:42:36,502
to discuss, which is something which I think is also

606
00:42:36,763 --> 00:42:40,262
badly missed in these, um, report like in this proposal

607
00:42:40,923 --> 00:42:45,782
is safety. Um, with the more you identify the downtown,

608
00:42:45,782 --> 00:42:49,942
the more you have issues with police response, fire response

609
00:42:49,982 --> 00:42:53,862
and all that stuff. Um, for example, um, not sure

610
00:42:53,902 --> 00:42:55,302
if many of you know this, but a lot of

611
00:42:55,483 --> 00:42:59,942
the major incident stuff gets sent from downtown station four,

612
00:42:59,942 --> 00:43:03,542
which includes like the technical rescue, the, uh, one of

613
00:43:03,542 --> 00:43:06,082
the latter trucks. We have two in the city, one

614
00:43:06,082 --> 00:43:07,622
of them which is 20 years old. And these replacements

615
00:43:07,643 --> 00:43:10,742
soon. We also have two aerials. Now this brings me

616
00:43:10,782 --> 00:43:14,502
another point, which is we don't have the, uh, equipment

617
00:43:15,163 --> 00:43:17,782
to, to, you know, respond to high rise fires in

618
00:43:17,782 --> 00:43:19,942
Kingston, even if we bought it, we need a place

619
00:43:19,942 --> 00:43:22,902
to put it. The more far trucks you need, the

620
00:43:22,923 --> 00:43:25,382
more parking space you need for it. Um, the war

621
00:43:25,422 --> 00:43:28,422
traffic you bring down, Tom, because of densification, the more,

622
00:43:28,422 --> 00:43:30,822
you know, the harder it is to respond. Um, and

623
00:43:30,923 --> 00:43:33,462
the other thing too is because of worse located downtown

624
00:43:34,043 --> 00:43:37,362
station four also responds to fires on highway two. For

625
00:43:37,362 --> 00:43:40,342
example, just yesterday there was a major fire within like

626
00:43:40,523 --> 00:43:44,822
five minutes of the Kingston boundary with, um, Lee's Grenville.

627
00:43:44,822 --> 00:43:49,762
And, uh, that required bringing the, um, like the, uh,

628
00:43:50,763 --> 00:43:53,462
platoon leader from station four plus one of their engines

629
00:43:54,043 --> 00:43:57,622
plus the volunteers from station one and all that stuff.

630
00:43:57,622 --> 00:43:59,062
Um, it's all sorts of stuff you guys can look

631
00:43:59,062 --> 00:44:02,742
up online. And honestly, I believe the last community risk

632
00:44:02,742 --> 00:44:05,862
assessment was in 2021. Since then, we've had at least

633
00:44:06,363 --> 00:44:08,662
10 high rises built downtown, I believe, if I'm not

634
00:44:08,702 --> 00:44:12,502
mistaken. And, um, the impacts of these impacts on transit

635
00:44:13,163 --> 00:44:16,022
traffic and all that stuff has not really been analysed

636
00:44:16,043 --> 00:44:20,102
since that report was released. And I believe that further

637
00:44:20,203 --> 00:44:23,622
densifying downtown without putting the brakes on it is really

638
00:44:23,662 --> 00:44:26,582
important. Could you pull up a map of a Google

639
00:44:26,683 --> 00:44:30,905
Maps of Dantown Please if you can. But the big

640
00:44:31,006 --> 00:44:34,505
thing is if you look at a map of Kingston's

641
00:44:34,505 --> 00:44:39,225
downtown, it's like it's built for horse carriages. It's really

642
00:44:39,265 --> 00:44:42,665
like really hard to drive around unless you're in a

643
00:44:42,665 --> 00:44:45,845
horse carriage or, you know, you drive really slow. And

644
00:44:45,845 --> 00:44:49,945
the more traffic you stick down there, the more chances

645
00:44:49,945 --> 00:44:53,445
of pedestrians getting struck, uh, more chances of, you know,

646
00:44:53,486 --> 00:44:55,865
pollution. There's also the fact that you take away the

647
00:44:55,886 --> 00:44:58,825
character of the community. Like a lot of tourists come,

648
00:44:58,825 --> 00:45:01,145
The Kingston, because they love the old style of the

649
00:45:01,185 --> 00:45:03,945
city. It's not just a great lakes, which is wonderful,

650
00:45:03,945 --> 00:45:07,465
but it's also just the heritage. And we're losing that.

651
00:45:07,465 --> 00:45:09,945
Like I've been here since the nineties. It's what we've

652
00:45:09,945 --> 00:45:12,825
been dealing with. And if we look at Toronto, their

653
00:45:12,865 --> 00:45:15,945
traffic situation is critical. They, even though they're adding subways,

654
00:45:15,945 --> 00:45:19,065
they just don't have places to put cars. And it's

655
00:45:19,065 --> 00:45:21,945
causing a major issue. And I believe like, if you

656
00:45:21,985 --> 00:45:25,705
look like at Western Kingston, Northern Kingston, even the east

657
00:45:25,745 --> 00:45:28,025
side of Kingston with the Lab and Crossing, we have

658
00:45:28,065 --> 00:45:30,785
like four lane roads to handle that extra traffic. We

659
00:45:30,785 --> 00:45:34,265
have the space to densify. We have like more places

660
00:45:34,286 --> 00:45:38,425
to put businesses. Hell, we've got a brand new open

661
00:45:38,465 --> 00:45:40,665
space at the Kingston Centre once they got rid of

662
00:45:40,766 --> 00:45:45,586
the, uh, the, the, uh, Canadian tire. And I believe,

663
00:45:45,586 --> 00:45:47,506
I would love this project. I just don't want to

664
00:45:47,506 --> 00:45:50,266
downtown. I don't think we can support that sort of

665
00:45:50,727 --> 00:45:54,066
densification downtown. I think we're at the limit. We have

666
00:45:54,066 --> 00:45:57,312
to stop. And even though, even if we have to

667
00:45:57,312 --> 00:45:59,312
fight the province of this, because I know the land

668
00:45:59,312 --> 00:46:01,872
tribunal is going to fight tooth and nail on this,

669
00:46:01,872 --> 00:46:02,992
because I know that's what they're going to do if

670
00:46:03,032 --> 00:46:06,672
Kingston says no. We have to stop somewhere because eventually

671
00:46:07,253 --> 00:46:08,712
you're going to reach a point where we're going to

672
00:46:08,712 --> 00:46:11,632
have all these buildings, all these extra people coming to

673
00:46:11,632 --> 00:46:13,792
town, which are probably going to be middle upper class

674
00:46:14,133 --> 00:46:17,312
and probably will be commuting with their cars to Midtown

675
00:46:17,493 --> 00:46:20,512
Wedstown instead of downtown. You know, it's just going to

676
00:46:20,693 --> 00:46:24,512
cause a Cascade effect. And I honestly think we really

677
00:46:24,533 --> 00:46:28,512
need to do a rethink. And, um, even though I

678
00:46:28,552 --> 00:46:32,352
do agree with the fact like it's, it's, it's staples.

679
00:46:32,352 --> 00:46:34,272
It's not like a Heritage property like some of these

680
00:46:34,272 --> 00:46:37,212
other places which of unfortunately destroyed some of it. But

681
00:46:37,333 --> 00:46:41,552
it doesn't stop the fact that, you know, 30 seconds.

682
00:46:41,592 --> 00:46:43,792
Yeah. Thirst. It just doesn't stop the fact that we

683
00:46:43,893 --> 00:46:46,832
just need to stop, look at the public safety, look

684
00:46:46,933 --> 00:46:50,272
at the, you know, like sewer riff is structure. Like

685
00:46:50,272 --> 00:46:52,192
look structure on Princess. I think that had to happen

686
00:46:52,232 --> 00:46:53,952
because they're like, Oh crap, we don't have enough water

687
00:46:54,213 --> 00:46:57,952
for those new condos. So it's just we need to

688
00:46:57,992 --> 00:47:00,752
stop and reanalyze everything before we add anything else. Thank

689
00:47:00,752 --> 00:47:04,192
you. Thank you. If you can just turn off your

690
00:47:04,192 --> 00:47:06,592
microphone, Mary Sleep. Um, so we'll go to our next

691
00:47:06,613 --> 00:47:08,352
speaker state your name. You'll have five minutes. Thank you.

692
00:47:08,693 --> 00:47:11,132
Good evening. Thank you. My name is Scott Jackson. And

693
00:47:11,132 --> 00:47:14,589
I'm resident of downtown Kingston. I am here tonight to

694
00:47:14,770 --> 00:47:17,629
ask this committee to deny the zoning bylaw amendment of

695
00:47:17,629 --> 00:47:21,629
the proposed 24 story, twin towers at 105 Queen and

696
00:47:21,669 --> 00:47:25,229
Bear. While we all agree that downtown Kingston needs purpose

697
00:47:25,250 --> 00:47:29,229
built housing. Intensification cannot come at the cost of permanent

698
00:47:29,410 --> 00:47:34,167
architectural and cultural destruction of our historic core. This application

699
00:47:34,268 --> 00:47:38,327
represents a direct irreconcilable conflict with the city of Kingston

700
00:47:38,348 --> 00:47:43,052
official plan. First, this proposal permanently destroys the human scale

701
00:47:43,393 --> 00:47:47,062
protected under section two of the official plan. Our downtown

702
00:47:47,163 --> 00:47:50,342
streets like Barrick and Queen were laid out in pre

703
00:47:50,363 --> 00:47:55,702
- automobile erate corridors erecting a continuous six - story

704
00:47:55,702 --> 00:47:58,742
solid street wall podium topped by a 24 - story

705
00:47:58,742 --> 00:48:03,702
towers will trap these streets in dark windswept permanent shadow.

706
00:48:03,883 --> 00:48:08,502
It forces an aggressive urban canyonization into an intimately scaled

707
00:48:09,083 --> 00:48:13,782
historic neighbourhood stripping away the pedestrian first comfort that defines

708
00:48:13,822 --> 00:48:18,908
our downtown. Second, this proposal inflicts permanent damage on our

709
00:48:19,169 --> 00:48:23,868
historic skyline violating section 10A's strict mandates against a visual

710
00:48:23,969 --> 00:48:27,439
intrusion. Kingston's low to Mid - Rise profile punctuated by

711
00:48:27,620 --> 00:48:31,199
historic limestone masonry and church spires is a shared cultural

712
00:48:31,220 --> 00:48:35,301
accet. A 24 - story vertical mass will stand as

713
00:48:35,482 --> 00:48:39,221
an incongruous visual monolith visible from the waterfront to the

714
00:48:39,242 --> 00:48:42,501
market square. It will visually engulf and dwarf the surrounding

715
00:48:42,682 --> 00:48:46,261
heritage properties, including the heritage easement at 90 to 92

716
00:48:46,362 --> 00:48:51,158
barrack and my own home. Finally, we must look to

717
00:48:51,579 --> 00:48:55,158
establish planning jurisprudence right here on Queen Street in its

718
00:48:55,158 --> 00:48:59,878
landmark August 2019 decision, the local planning appeal tribunal explicitly

719
00:48:59,979 --> 00:49:04,118
rejected high - rise towers on this streetscape. There's tribunal

720
00:49:04,139 --> 00:49:07,398
rule that dropping towering vertical masses into Kingston load amid

721
00:49:07,419 --> 00:49:11,478
rise low to mid - rise fabric constitutes an unacceptable

722
00:49:11,739 --> 00:49:17,825
quote visual intrusion and architectural incompatibility. At 24 stories, this

723
00:49:18,086 --> 00:49:21,565
proposal is even taller and denser than the footprints, the

724
00:49:21,565 --> 00:49:24,705
tribunal previously warned would fracture the cultural fabric of the

725
00:49:24,726 --> 00:49:28,916
city. If this committee approves a site - specific exception

726
00:49:29,017 --> 00:49:32,916
overlay of this magnitude, it will set a dangerous, irrevocable

727
00:49:32,937 --> 00:49:36,196
planning precedent. It signals to the development industry that our

728
00:49:36,217 --> 00:49:40,516
historic guidelines are completely negotiable. Paving the way for future

729
00:49:40,537 --> 00:49:44,676
high - rises to systematically dismantle our historic core. I

730
00:49:44,716 --> 00:49:46,916
urge this committee to uphold the Integrity of our official

731
00:49:47,017 --> 00:49:51,396
plan, honour past tribunal precedence and deny this amendment. Thank

732
00:49:51,396 --> 00:49:55,810
you. Okay, thank you. Uh, we'll go to our next

733
00:49:55,911 --> 00:49:59,724
speaker. Please state your name. You have five minutes. My

734
00:49:59,724 --> 00:50:02,524
name is Gene Ryan. Before the clock starts, I would

735
00:50:02,545 --> 00:50:05,484
request that my PowerPoint be put up.

736
00:50:15,603 --> 00:50:19,262
My name is Gene Ryan. I'm here to ask the

737
00:50:19,363 --> 00:50:24,302
planning committee and planning staff to uphold the official plan

738
00:50:24,883 --> 00:50:28,382
and uphold zoning by laws. Um, I'm starting with the

739
00:50:28,382 --> 00:50:33,262
focus on the proposal site - specific exception overlay because

740
00:50:33,262 --> 00:50:36,782
it's really the crux of what this building is requiring

741
00:50:36,963 --> 00:50:46,331
to get built. Next slide, please. Downtown 1 allows

742
00:50:46,832 --> 00:50:51,211
4 - 6 stories maximum. What's being asked for with

743
00:50:51,211 --> 00:50:55,691
this reposal when multiply that by a factor of 424

744
00:50:55,731 --> 00:51:01,362
stories. Downtown 1 allows 4 maximum density of 123 dwelling

745
00:51:01,402 --> 00:51:07,869
units. What this proposal would require would almost times that

746
00:51:07,909 --> 00:51:13,897
by 7 to 141 units. The idea that this proposal

747
00:51:14,078 --> 00:51:18,697
in any way is actually representative of downtown 1 is

748
00:51:18,697 --> 00:51:23,637
clearly not the case. And what we're seeing here is

749
00:51:23,898 --> 00:51:28,197
a site - specific exception for the proposal that creates

750
00:51:28,218 --> 00:51:31,957
a holy new MiniZone that does not conform with the

751
00:51:31,957 --> 00:51:34,997
official plan and does not follow the zoning by a

752
00:51:34,997 --> 00:51:39,896
laws of the area. Next slide please. We've been seeing

753
00:51:39,917 --> 00:51:45,656
this with increasing regularity. It's creating terrible destructive precedent for

754
00:51:45,917 --> 00:51:51,096
the city. And with each new approved site - specific

755
00:51:51,517 --> 00:51:58,376
overlay, aka new non - conforming MiniZone, it creates the

756
00:51:58,376 --> 00:52:02,090
precedent that the next proposal relies on. Should this be

757
00:52:02,511 --> 00:52:06,013
approved. We can be sure that we'll see it. And

758
00:52:06,013 --> 00:52:15,085
yet an upcoming application. Next slide please. Another site

759
00:52:16,146 --> 00:52:23,632
citation from the justification report itself. This proposal would greatly,

760
00:52:23,632 --> 00:52:28,032
diversely impact a hugely important heritage area of the city.

761
00:52:29,093 --> 00:52:34,112
And beyond that cause immeasurable adverse impacts for residents in

762
00:52:34,112 --> 00:52:38,016
the area. But more than simply residents in the area,

763
00:52:38,016 --> 00:52:40,762
it's the city of the Kingston as a whole. Next

764
00:52:40,802 --> 00:52:47,538
slide, please. The OLT is very clear about The fact

765
00:52:47,538 --> 00:52:54,016
that municipalities absolutely have the right. To enforce their official

766
00:52:54,117 --> 00:52:57,056
plan and zoning by laws. And we saw that just

767
00:52:57,056 --> 00:53:01,456
this past May related to an Intensification proposal in Orangeville.

768
00:53:02,346 --> 00:53:04,325
The alts, he was very clear about the fact that

769
00:53:04,586 --> 00:53:11,685
Intensification is only one policy set. That the city and

770
00:53:11,725 --> 00:53:16,847
its councillors are expected to uphold. And that Intensivication cannot

771
00:53:16,868 --> 00:53:21,967
be prioritized over a competing policies, including those to preserve

772
00:53:22,148 --> 00:53:30,934
neighbourhood character. Next slide, please. With increasing frequency, we see

773
00:53:30,974 --> 00:53:34,774
these applications come forward for the most desirable real estate

774
00:53:35,115 --> 00:53:39,160
in Kingston. More developers can charge the highest rents. And

775
00:53:39,181 --> 00:53:42,680
I don't blame developers for doing that. That's their job.

776
00:53:43,932 --> 00:53:47,671
They're here to maximize their development. I am calling on

777
00:53:47,671 --> 00:53:51,831
the city both staff and council to make sure though

778
00:53:51,932 --> 00:53:57,511
that our choices for housing uphold the official plan follow

779
00:53:57,532 --> 00:54:01,631
zoning bylaws for all of us, not just developers. We

780
00:54:01,692 --> 00:54:04,631
all know, for example, residents who are unable to read

781
00:54:04,671 --> 00:54:08,921
you their deck, for example. Because they don't, they aren't

782
00:54:08,942 --> 00:54:14,121
granted the variants that's requested. This is far more than

783
00:54:14,161 --> 00:54:18,761
that. Again, it would create a new MiniZone that's completely

784
00:54:19,182 --> 00:54:21,961
non - conforming with the official plan and with the

785
00:54:21,961 --> 00:54:26,041
zoning by laws. And it does not meet our needs.

786
00:54:26,902 --> 00:54:31,850
This is from August just this past summer. Kingston out

787
00:54:31,850 --> 00:54:38,161
of 243 cities ranks 150 eighths in affordability. We've been

788
00:54:38,182 --> 00:54:42,401
playing, we've been building plenty of units though. And for

789
00:54:42,401 --> 00:54:46,881
that reason, we're really high up in terms of availability.

790
00:54:46,881 --> 00:54:50,481
Coming in number four. Thank you. Coming in at number

791
00:54:50,662 --> 00:54:54,481
fourth out of 243 cities in terms of apartments being

792
00:54:54,582 --> 00:54:58,523
available. I know that we can do better and it

793
00:54:58,523 --> 00:55:01,963
will ask, please, all of our city officials and all

794
00:55:01,963 --> 00:55:05,463
of our public servants to serve the whole city. All

795
00:55:05,463 --> 00:55:08,925
of us residents. It's not that we trust you. It's

796
00:55:08,925 --> 00:55:12,975
that we depends on you. Thank you. Thank you very

797
00:55:12,975 --> 00:55:17,215
much. Okay, so we've had five speakers in the room.

798
00:55:17,215 --> 00:55:19,615
We're going, I'm so sorry. We are going to go

799
00:55:19,716 --> 00:55:25,215
to the applicant for response, after which we'll come back

800
00:55:25,236 --> 00:55:26,655
into the room. So if you are in the room

801
00:55:26,756 --> 00:55:28,335
and would like to speak, you're welcome to go sit

802
00:55:28,335 --> 00:55:29,935
there and be comfortable. If you're happy where you are,

803
00:55:29,935 --> 00:55:31,935
that's fine. Um, and I'll turn it over to the

804
00:55:31,956 --> 00:55:37,135
applicant. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. I did document

805
00:55:37,316 --> 00:55:40,815
all the comments that were received in my approach is

806
00:55:40,815 --> 00:55:45,135
typically to document comments and to start questions, uh, of

807
00:55:45,135 --> 00:55:48,135
the application. Most of what I heard were statements. I

808
00:55:48,135 --> 00:55:52,335
haven't starred any questions. Um, so I've noted the comments

809
00:55:53,236 --> 00:55:55,215
and would be prepared to move to the next five

810
00:55:55,556 --> 00:55:57,295
if there is a question that you thought was in

811
00:55:57,295 --> 00:56:00,095
there that you would like me to address. I'd be

812
00:56:00,095 --> 00:56:01,695
happy to do so, but I didn't hear any questions

813
00:56:01,796 --> 00:56:03,055
of us. Thank you.

814
00:56:26,696 --> 00:56:29,235
Yeah, I would agree that they were, um, they were

815
00:56:29,275 --> 00:56:31,155
statements that were made. I did not record any questions

816
00:56:31,256 --> 00:56:34,595
either. Aside from a request for peer review. Would that

817
00:56:34,595 --> 00:56:39,561
go to staff or the applicant. Staff, Mr. Bar. Thanks.

818
00:56:39,561 --> 00:56:41,781
And through you chair, that is a request that, you

819
00:56:41,781 --> 00:56:45,001
know, staff will undertake and bring back to our partners

820
00:56:45,102 --> 00:56:50,846
inheritage services. Thank you. Okay. In that case, we will

821
00:56:50,886 --> 00:56:53,806
go online. If you are on Zoom and you would

822
00:56:53,806 --> 00:57:01,270
like to speak, please raise your virtual hand. Through your

823
00:57:01,310 --> 00:57:07,332
Madam Chair. I'll recognise Jennifer Hosek. Thank you. Hi, Jennifer.

824
00:57:07,332 --> 00:57:09,092
Please state your name and you will have five minutes

825
00:57:09,113 --> 00:57:14,422
to speak. Thank you. I'm Jennifer Hosek. Thank you. I'm,

826
00:57:14,462 --> 00:57:19,222
I'm on not finding my camera. And yes, and I'm

827
00:57:19,723 --> 00:57:22,742
not in Kingston currently because I'm a way at work.

828
00:57:22,742 --> 00:57:28,262
Otherwise I would certainly be here. I must absolutely applaud

829
00:57:28,603 --> 00:57:32,262
the speakers up till now who did such a good

830
00:57:32,363 --> 00:57:39,062
job making actual arguments. And rather than, um, I would

831
00:57:39,102 --> 00:57:42,262
say from the point of view of the, uh, you

832
00:57:42,262 --> 00:57:46,582
know, hearing the developer speak to simply list the concerns

833
00:57:46,683 --> 00:57:49,462
that we have and that we have sent in various

834
00:57:49,883 --> 00:57:55,462
letters, um, and not really give an actual response to

835
00:57:55,462 --> 00:57:59,622
them, but rather to simply diminish them. And I again,

836
00:57:59,622 --> 00:58:02,422
I think that following the lead of the, of the

837
00:58:02,462 --> 00:58:05,462
people who have been speaking would really be the way

838
00:58:05,502 --> 00:58:11,942
to go because they're, they're, um, they're offering actual factual,

839
00:58:11,942 --> 00:58:18,342
um, factual facts, basically facts, uh, to show how it's

840
00:58:18,443 --> 00:58:22,002
going to be so detrimental to have these towers. Now

841
00:58:22,123 --> 00:58:25,862
I know that I am a person who, uh, has

842
00:58:25,862 --> 00:58:28,822
money and chose to live downtown. And I want to

843
00:58:28,822 --> 00:58:32,262
live in a livable downtown city. And I also live

844
00:58:32,603 --> 00:58:35,142
in Analene. So I'll also be a person who won't

845
00:58:35,163 --> 00:58:38,102
have any direct son for the rest of my life

846
00:58:38,523 --> 00:58:41,622
if I continue to live in that building. And so

847
00:58:42,443 --> 00:58:46,562
one question that I have for the developer is, uh,

848
00:58:46,843 --> 00:58:50,402
and, you know, I'm not a professional city planner. I'm

849
00:58:50,402 --> 00:58:53,382
just an educated person. So, uh, I hope that we

850
00:58:53,403 --> 00:58:55,842
can ask the question in a way that, you know,

851
00:58:56,123 --> 00:58:59,462
speaks to actual bylaws and so forth. Is it like

852
00:58:59,883 --> 00:59:03,842
in what way is it actually legal to, you know,

853
00:59:03,842 --> 00:59:06,902
cast that kind of shadow that the previous speaker also

854
00:59:06,942 --> 00:59:11,062
shown influences so many people, how is it possible for

855
00:59:11,083 --> 00:59:14,822
that to happen? The second question is related to the

856
00:59:15,083 --> 00:59:18,022
towers. Why is it the case that or is it

857
00:59:18,022 --> 00:59:20,902
not the case that there's a difference between a nine

858
00:59:21,003 --> 00:59:24,062
story building and a 24 story building? I think that

859
00:59:24,062 --> 00:59:29,102
one of the speakers spoke factually to the case, to

860
00:59:29,102 --> 00:59:34,102
the argument that 24 stories is simply not legal. My

861
00:59:34,363 --> 00:59:37,782
proposal would be to not have the towers. Just don't

862
00:59:37,782 --> 00:59:40,342
have the towers. If you're going to have the towers,

863
00:59:40,342 --> 00:59:46,502
then nine story level should be the maximum. In addition,

864
00:59:46,502 --> 00:59:49,702
if we really need to have the nine story towers

865
00:59:50,123 --> 00:59:52,582
move one of the towers, make it smaller and move

866
00:59:52,582 --> 00:59:55,622
it to have it go along Queen so that the

867
00:59:55,643 --> 01:00:00,082
people in Annalaine, and here maybe I'm being selfish, um,

868
01:00:00,082 --> 01:00:03,382
get to have the light that they signed up for.

869
01:00:03,382 --> 01:00:08,002
I actually happened to, um, have that, um, sad, um,

870
01:00:08,123 --> 01:00:11,222
condition. So like that disability condition where I have to

871
01:00:11,323 --> 01:00:14,422
have light and, you know, we all know that we

872
01:00:14,443 --> 01:00:18,263
have that kind of winter blues. And then my final

873
01:00:18,764 --> 01:00:25,543
question is, what about the flooding my compatriots have spoken

874
01:00:25,804 --> 01:00:29,143
to many of the issues like noise and traffic and

875
01:00:29,183 --> 01:00:32,743
heritage. And I think and the shadows, that's all completely

876
01:00:33,004 --> 01:00:36,503
accurate. And I'd like there to be discussion of flooding

877
01:00:36,844 --> 01:00:40,903
because almost every year there are issues around Annalene and

878
01:00:40,943 --> 01:00:45,543
sometimes annine actually gets flooded because the sewers are simply

879
01:00:46,044 --> 01:00:49,063
the storm sewers are not big enough. And I, I

880
01:00:49,164 --> 01:00:52,583
want that problem. Um, I mean, that problem is going

881
01:00:52,583 --> 01:00:57,283
to be exacerbated, may not be a city planner, uh,

882
01:00:57,324 --> 01:01:00,343
but I'm sure that it'll be exacerbated by that building.

883
01:01:00,343 --> 01:01:02,463
So, uh, the question is how is that going to

884
01:01:02,463 --> 01:01:07,143
get mitigated? And I completely, um, I apologise again that

885
01:01:07,183 --> 01:01:10,903
I don't, um, get to show you my, um, my

886
01:01:10,924 --> 01:01:14,663
very serious face at this moment. And I see the

887
01:01:14,844 --> 01:01:20,339
remaining minutes to this subsequent, uh, speaker. Thank you. Okay.

888
01:01:20,379 --> 01:01:22,579
Thank you very much. We'll have a look online and

889
01:01:22,619 --> 01:01:31,535
go to our next speaker. Is there anyone else online

890
01:01:31,556 --> 01:01:34,585
who would like to speak. Please raise your hand. Thank

891
01:01:34,585 --> 01:01:42,171
you. Through Madam Chair, I'm recognised Barbara Bater. Hi Barbara,

892
01:01:42,171 --> 01:01:49,899
you have five minutes. Thank you very much. I just

893
01:01:49,939 --> 01:01:57,523
came to this issue very recently yesterday. I saw it

894
01:01:57,563 --> 01:02:01,083
something about it on, on Facebook. So I apologise. I

895
01:02:01,083 --> 01:02:03,763
also came to the meeting late, but I thought I

896
01:02:03,803 --> 01:02:07,443
had signed up. So I would show up. Um, I'm

897
01:02:07,443 --> 01:02:10,383
speaking a bit off the top of my head, but

898
01:02:10,424 --> 01:02:15,523
I lower my hand here. Um, hope you can hear

899
01:02:15,563 --> 01:02:22,163
me. And I really applaud the two speakers, I think,

900
01:02:22,163 --> 01:02:24,963
was it Mike Johnson? I'm not quite sure. And the

901
01:02:24,963 --> 01:02:30,643
woman after him spoke very, very well about the heritage

902
01:02:30,683 --> 01:02:39,629
nature of the neighbourhood. Also staples is a terrific store.

903
01:02:39,629 --> 01:02:44,987
Um, I was actually in there today. And this may

904
01:02:45,027 --> 01:02:51,227
seem like a secondary topic, but, but all of the,

905
01:02:51,227 --> 01:02:55,871
one of the staff said that. Most of the downtown

906
01:02:55,892 --> 01:02:59,951
businesses rely on their printing services. Uh, anyway, I won't

907
01:03:00,212 --> 01:03:04,351
belabor that point, but it's a terrific store. I use

908
01:03:04,391 --> 01:03:09,833
it a lot myself and love it. Um. Since there

909
01:03:09,833 --> 01:03:18,771
aren't, sorry. I just have a real support for the

910
01:03:19,192 --> 01:03:25,811
two speakers and preserving the heritage nature, the avoiding some

911
01:03:25,851 --> 01:03:29,653
of the traffic issues. We just have to slow down

912
01:03:29,994 --> 01:03:33,861
and think about what we're doing. Before we go ahead.

913
01:03:36,154 --> 01:03:40,621
And I. Apologise for if I'm a bit rough here.

914
01:03:40,882 --> 01:03:43,581
I, I have never gone to a meeting like this

915
01:03:43,621 --> 01:03:51,049
before. So I'm putting my, uh, thank you. Okay. Thank

916
01:03:51,049 --> 01:03:53,209
you very much. And no worries if you've never been

917
01:03:53,209 --> 01:03:55,609
before. That's what this is for. This is the process.

918
01:03:55,609 --> 01:03:57,529
So if you've never done it and you're nervous, that's

919
01:03:57,529 --> 01:04:00,489
normal. Uh, we're glad you're here. We're glad you're participating.

920
01:04:00,489 --> 01:04:03,153
Um, is there anyone else online? Okay. Through you, Madam

921
01:04:03,153 --> 01:04:06,834
Chair, I'll recognise Colleen Murphy. Thank you. If you could

922
01:04:06,874 --> 01:04:08,994
just state your name, uh, for the record and then

923
01:04:08,994 --> 01:04:09,874
you have five minutes. Thank you.

924
01:04:31,808 --> 01:04:37,493
Colleen, we're unable to hear you in the room. It

925
01:04:37,594 --> 01:04:40,825
does appear that you've been unmuted. But we'll try again.

926
01:04:55,517 --> 01:04:58,176
Okay. Colleen, we are still unable to hear you. So

927
01:04:58,176 --> 01:05:00,276
we'll move on to the next speaker, but you can

928
01:05:00,397 --> 01:05:02,776
try logging on again. Um, and we can try again

929
01:05:02,797 --> 01:05:06,008
later. Or you can submit your statements, uh, through email.

930
01:05:06,521 --> 01:05:11,770
So we'll move on to Melissa Reed. Thank you. Please

931
01:05:11,810 --> 01:05:20,201
state your name and you have five minutes. My. Name

932
01:05:20,201 --> 01:05:25,243
is Melissa Reed. Um, I will skip the. Comments I

933
01:05:25,243 --> 01:05:28,088
have and just go right to the questions. Since this,

934
01:05:28,088 --> 01:05:33,608
um, building, uh, it will be built on a landslope.

935
01:05:33,608 --> 01:05:38,088
And the geography of the address has not been addressed.

936
01:05:38,088 --> 01:05:41,848
What specific independent third party hydrological and geotechnical studies have

937
01:05:41,848 --> 01:05:45,448
been reviewed guarantee that three level underground digging for these

938
01:05:45,469 --> 01:05:49,928
two 24 story towers will not act as a subsurface

939
01:05:50,029 --> 01:05:53,368
dam all drained groundwater flow and causing chronic flooding or

940
01:05:53,408 --> 01:05:56,668
foundational fraction neighbouring properties down the road. My second question

941
01:05:56,689 --> 01:06:00,988
is without a legal binding agreement ensuring actual deep level

942
01:06:01,329 --> 01:06:04,988
affordable housing units. How can a committee justify approving a

943
01:06:05,028 --> 01:06:09,468
massive twin tower development that actually bypasses our cities official

944
01:06:09,569 --> 01:06:14,854
plan and our community's urgent need for housing? Thank you.

945
01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,059
Okay. Thank you very much. Just looking online again.

946
01:06:26,763 --> 01:06:29,462
Okay. Not seeing anyone line. Um, we finally had three

947
01:06:29,483 --> 01:06:31,302
speakers. If anyone in the room would like to speak

948
01:06:31,483 --> 01:06:33,942
if you don't mind coming and sitting these chairs, please.

949
01:06:33,942 --> 01:06:35,702
Thank you. We'll just give a moment to check online

950
01:06:35,702 --> 01:06:36,822
again while you're getting settled.

951
01:06:47,692 --> 01:06:52,903
Okay. We'll recognise Carrie Hill. Hi, please state your name

952
01:06:52,924 --> 01:06:53,463
and you have five minutes.

953
01:07:13,496 --> 01:07:19,277
Carrie, we're not able to hear you in chambers. For

954
01:07:19,277 --> 01:07:21,517
those online, sometimes it can be a case of headphones

955
01:07:21,778 --> 01:07:25,837
or whatever other technology you're using to listen and speak.

956
01:07:36,315 --> 01:07:38,832
Can you hear. Me now. There we go. We can

957
01:07:38,872 --> 01:07:41,683
hear you now, Carrie. Thank you. Okay. I don't know

958
01:07:41,683 --> 01:07:45,737
what I did. But any. My name is Carriell. And,

959
01:07:45,737 --> 01:07:52,488
um. I. Really just have one question. I'm just wondering

960
01:07:52,669 --> 01:07:56,951
whether either the owner of the property. Or any of

961
01:07:56,951 --> 01:08:01,613
the developers or planners involved. Were at the. Meoral candidate.

962
01:08:02,234 --> 01:08:07,010
Meeting on Monday evening. The reason why I'm asking this

963
01:08:07,031 --> 01:08:11,250
is that all four candidates said no to any further

964
01:08:12,071 --> 01:08:18,932
high rises in downtown Kingston. That's, that's my question. Thank

965
01:08:18,932 --> 01:08:24,210
you. We're not seeing anyone else online. Just double checking

966
01:08:24,250 --> 01:08:32,538
one more time. I'll recognise Colleen Murphy. We'll try Colleen

967
01:08:32,538 --> 01:08:40,949
again. Can you. Hear me now. We can. Oh my

968
01:08:40,949 --> 01:08:44,231
goodness. Gracious. Thank you so much. So my name is

969
01:08:44,252 --> 01:08:47,191
Colleen Murphy. My husband and I live in the Annaline

970
01:08:47,231 --> 01:08:51,271
building facing the St Paul's side. My dad also lives

971
01:08:51,452 --> 01:08:55,120
in Annalene facing the staple side. I'm here this evening

972
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:58,880
to highlight some of my family's main concerns about the

973
01:08:58,981 --> 01:09:03,095
proposed high rise development. So we've heard this, but I'm

974
01:09:03,095 --> 01:09:06,615
going to just repeat. Um, one concern is traffic congestion.

975
01:09:07,073 --> 01:09:09,852
So the area is already and you probably know this

976
01:09:09,852 --> 01:09:13,212
already, but the area is already prone to heavy traffic

977
01:09:13,233 --> 01:09:18,112
congestion. Especially during rush hour and event times. Narrow roads

978
01:09:18,112 --> 01:09:21,152
are prominent in this area. It is often difficult for

979
01:09:21,192 --> 01:09:24,272
us to enter or exit by car to our building.

980
01:09:25,746 --> 01:09:29,726
The two parking garages face staples. People in our building

981
01:09:29,766 --> 01:09:32,956
need to get to where they are going properly. Having

982
01:09:32,996 --> 01:09:36,396
to wait to enter or exit the building is anticipated

983
01:09:36,396 --> 01:09:40,616
to be longer due to the added population density. And

984
01:09:40,616 --> 01:09:44,592
during construction time. So the narrative needs to be a

985
01:09:44,613 --> 01:09:47,712
thoughtful traffic flow plan on how to deal with more

986
01:09:48,053 --> 01:09:52,352
traffic congestion due to the added population density that this

987
01:09:52,392 --> 01:09:57,590
area will experience. Condition of our roads is another concern.

988
01:09:57,590 --> 01:10:01,190
The roads in our area are already needing repair, especially

989
01:10:01,531 --> 01:10:06,036
along Cleen Street. Heavy trucks for construction will damage our

990
01:10:06,076 --> 01:10:09,115
streets further. So there needs to be a plan to

991
01:10:09,155 --> 01:10:12,715
mitigate damage to our roads and a plan for immediate

992
01:10:12,755 --> 01:10:18,212
repair post construction. Another issue has been mentioned, but I'll

993
01:10:18,212 --> 01:10:21,732
repeat proposed height of the twin buildings will affect a

994
01:10:21,732 --> 01:10:25,092
few things, including the beauty of our downtown, which is

995
01:10:25,273 --> 01:10:28,292
already at risk with the number of tall high raises

996
01:10:28,313 --> 01:10:31,892
being built. These towers will certainly disrupt the beauty of

997
01:10:31,892 --> 01:10:35,740
the downtown. Kingston is well known for its downtown heritage

998
01:10:35,780 --> 01:10:40,211
buildings, including around the proposed development. People come from far

999
01:10:40,232 --> 01:10:44,211
away to experience Kingston downtown. Let's try to preserve the

1000
01:10:44,232 --> 01:10:48,572
beautiful character of our downtown. There will be diminished natural

1001
01:10:48,753 --> 01:10:51,852
sunlight as people have mentioned for our building and surrounding

1002
01:10:51,873 --> 01:10:55,452
areas. Some of us actually use our balconies and outside

1003
01:10:55,553 --> 01:10:59,212
spaces as extensions of our own homes. We grow gardens

1004
01:10:59,212 --> 01:11:01,852
and enjoy the sunlight, which is important to our health.

1005
01:11:02,008 --> 01:11:05,427
These towers threatened to completely block our sunlight and impact

1006
01:11:05,528 --> 01:11:09,642
our health. There is already a significant wind tunnel, which

1007
01:11:09,642 --> 01:11:12,442
I don't think has been mentioned along Queen Street, especially

1008
01:11:12,783 --> 01:11:15,651
along the corner and in front of our building. I've

1009
01:11:15,832 --> 01:11:20,451
experienced such wind tunnels or excessive winds outside tall buildings.

1010
01:11:20,451 --> 01:11:23,571
The high buildings being proposed most likely will exasperate the

1011
01:11:23,611 --> 01:11:26,851
wind in the area. My dad will certainly have a

1012
01:11:26,891 --> 01:11:31,091
tough time walking with anticipation of a moment to conditions.

1013
01:11:31,432 --> 01:11:35,171
24 floors is unacceptable. We need to consider lowering the

1014
01:11:35,211 --> 01:11:39,331
number of floors significantly. Our building was only allowed for

1015
01:11:39,352 --> 01:11:42,771
nine floors just to put this all into perspective. There

1016
01:11:42,811 --> 01:11:45,491
were valid reasons at the time for limiting the height

1017
01:11:45,531 --> 01:11:50,397
of buildings. Another issue that I anticipate is garbage and

1018
01:11:50,437 --> 01:11:53,197
recycling. There's already a lot of recycling and garbage in

1019
01:11:53,197 --> 01:11:56,557
the area. Often the weekly garbage and recycling is disturbed

1020
01:11:56,978 --> 01:12:00,557
and access garbage blows everywhere. And our flower beds on

1021
01:12:00,557 --> 01:12:03,517
our sidewalks and on our streets. There will be excessive

1022
01:12:03,557 --> 01:12:07,437
garbage and recycling in this area impacting downtown. The plan

1023
01:12:07,538 --> 01:12:11,117
needs to think thoughtfully about how to contain the mess

1024
01:12:11,618 --> 01:12:14,586
in the downtown area. There's a strain on our storm

1025
01:12:14,607 --> 01:12:17,606
sewers as people have mentioned. And when it rains, and

1026
01:12:17,606 --> 01:12:19,866
I believe the previous speaker spoke to this, the large

1027
01:12:19,866 --> 01:12:23,827
puddles that form along Vegot Street. And this can especially

1028
01:12:23,867 --> 01:12:26,467
be slippery when the puddles freeze. So we need to

1029
01:12:26,568 --> 01:12:30,707
ensure walkability at no flooding along Baggett Street. We're concerned

1030
01:12:30,707 --> 01:12:34,749
about the infrastructure strain on an already strained system. There

1031
01:12:34,850 --> 01:12:38,109
will be greater overflowing flooding due to having this increase

1032
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:42,669
of 536 units. We need to have the plan or

1033
01:12:42,709 --> 01:12:45,869
update our storm sewers in the area before any construction.

1034
01:12:46,960 --> 01:12:49,819
The bright lights at night will increase from being in

1035
01:12:49,819 --> 01:12:54,699
close proximity proximity, which will certainly impact us, including during

1036
01:12:54,739 --> 01:12:57,979
construction time. We will all have to have heavy curtains

1037
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,796
to block out the light at night. And just a

1038
01:13:01,796 --> 01:13:05,716
couple more things. Added pollution, including noise pollution, especially during

1039
01:13:05,897 --> 01:13:09,156
construction times. We have all suffered enough from the noise

1040
01:13:09,417 --> 01:13:11,956
and added pollution from the many buildings going up along

1041
01:13:12,057 --> 01:13:16,436
Queen Street. Many people in our buildings are shift workers.

1042
01:13:16,436 --> 01:13:19,156
The constant noise greatly impacts our sleep and quality of

1043
01:13:19,177 --> 01:13:23,236
life. And finally, parking. Well, this proposed twin towers decrease

1044
01:13:23,337 --> 01:13:26,756
parking for those visiting the downtown. We already have limited

1045
01:13:26,937 --> 01:13:30,276
parking downtown. We want to attract people to come 30

1046
01:13:30,316 --> 01:13:34,045
seconds. And people who work downtown need a place to

1047
01:13:34,085 --> 01:13:38,547
park. Thank you. That's it for me. Okay. Thanks very

1048
01:13:38,547 --> 01:13:41,187
much. Uh, so we're going to pause the speakers there.

1049
01:13:41,187 --> 01:13:43,507
We'll turn to the applicant for responses to questions and

1050
01:13:43,507 --> 01:13:47,078
then we'll come back in the room. Thank you, Madam

1051
01:13:47,118 --> 01:13:51,558
Chair. And through you, one of the first questions related

1052
01:13:51,598 --> 01:13:56,438
to, like, is it legal to cast a shadow on

1053
01:13:56,539 --> 01:14:00,278
a property? And I have to admit, I've actually never

1054
01:14:00,318 --> 01:14:02,198
been asked that question before. So I will have to

1055
01:14:02,238 --> 01:14:06,518
do a bit of investigation. Uh, into that and provide

1056
01:14:06,539 --> 01:14:11,638
a response to the planning committee, uh, rather, uh, planning

1057
01:14:11,659 --> 01:14:15,477
staff to bring back to this committee. What, what I

1058
01:14:15,477 --> 01:14:19,957
would say in terms of views and shadow impact is

1059
01:14:19,997 --> 01:14:23,077
that the official plan does lay out policies. It does

1060
01:14:23,077 --> 01:14:26,597
have protected views. Uh, and this isn't one of those

1061
01:14:27,178 --> 01:14:32,090
protected views. And when we conduct shadow studies, there are

1062
01:14:32,130 --> 01:14:36,010
terms of reference in terms of, of what is an

1063
01:14:36,010 --> 01:14:39,770
acceptable shadow. And there is no doubt these buildings will

1064
01:14:40,191 --> 01:14:45,270
cast shadows. They will change what people know today. But

1065
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:48,090
they are within the limits of those parameters, uh, that

1066
01:14:48,351 --> 01:14:56,993
are set. There was a comment, a few comments about,

1067
01:14:56,993 --> 01:15:03,213
uh, about flooding. Uh, and about storm sewers that, uh,

1068
01:15:03,654 --> 01:15:06,433
in poor condition, they're at their maximum. And that is

1069
01:15:06,473 --> 01:15:12,002
something that, that we acknowledge. There are improvements. That will

1070
01:15:12,002 --> 01:15:15,682
be necessary. Yeah. There's, there's still a combined sewer on

1071
01:15:16,503 --> 01:15:20,082
Beark Street. They would have to be, uh, separated stormwater

1072
01:15:20,183 --> 01:15:23,362
from, from sewer. So these are known, uh, issues that

1073
01:15:23,402 --> 01:15:28,980
will have to be addressed through the development process. There

1074
01:15:29,001 --> 01:15:33,140
was a comment about, uh, staples and how important it

1075
01:15:33,180 --> 01:15:35,700
is to the downtown. And it is certainly the intent

1076
01:15:35,700 --> 01:15:38,260
to keep, uh, staples on the site.

1077
01:15:46,580 --> 01:15:50,639
Uh, there was a question about garbage and how that

1078
01:15:51,380 --> 01:15:54,399
might impact the area and all the garbage would be

1079
01:15:54,399 --> 01:15:57,679
handling would be handled internal to the site. There's not,

1080
01:15:57,679 --> 01:16:00,299
there would not be garbage brought to the curb. Uh,

1081
01:16:00,500 --> 01:16:07,955
at this project. There was a question about what hydrogeological

1082
01:16:08,136 --> 01:16:13,475
studies have been conducted. There have only been preliminary look

1083
01:16:13,515 --> 01:16:16,435
at the site right now. So as, as the project

1084
01:16:16,616 --> 01:16:19,795
moves forward into a site plan level, that's when those

1085
01:16:20,136 --> 01:16:24,595
hydrogeological studies would be conducted, uh, they'll be conducted for

1086
01:16:24,616 --> 01:16:28,175
a number of reasons. One is defined water levels. The

1087
01:16:28,175 --> 01:16:29,955
site will also be subject to what's called a record

1088
01:16:29,976 --> 01:16:34,035
of sight condition. Uh, which is a site proving it

1089
01:16:34,035 --> 01:16:38,355
is safe from contamination for residential use. So those are

1090
01:16:38,376 --> 01:16:43,155
studies that have only been started in a preliminary way.

1091
01:16:43,155 --> 01:16:48,602
And we'll come later in the process. In similar vein,

1092
01:16:48,602 --> 01:16:52,262
it was recommended to put a legally binding agreement, uh,

1093
01:16:52,303 --> 01:16:56,282
to have deeply affordable housing on the site. Those are

1094
01:16:56,303 --> 01:17:00,762
all, all negotiations that come, uh, much later in the

1095
01:17:01,023 --> 01:17:05,643
process. There was a question about if this would be

1096
01:17:05,824 --> 01:17:10,523
decreasing parking in the downtown. And our project is actually

1097
01:17:10,563 --> 01:17:15,243
proposing parking that would be publicly available. Should it be

1098
01:17:15,283 --> 01:17:18,283
built? So we are actually proposing a surplus of parking

1099
01:17:18,864 --> 01:17:22,283
to the residential use and the commercial, uh, users of

1100
01:17:22,304 --> 01:17:26,683
the site, like specifically having spaces reserved for staples and

1101
01:17:26,723 --> 01:17:29,163
another user. And on top of that, there would be

1102
01:17:29,163 --> 01:17:31,563
a surplus of parking that, that we'd like to figure

1103
01:17:31,603 --> 01:17:35,803
out how those spaces could become publicly available.

1104
01:17:41,408 --> 01:17:44,427
And I believe that's it, Madam Chair, but if I've

1105
01:17:44,467 --> 01:17:46,967
missed any, by all means, I'm happy to. Thanks. Um,

1106
01:17:47,168 --> 01:17:50,507
I do have just to, so the, there was a

1107
01:17:50,507 --> 01:17:52,827
question around the difference between a nine story and a

1108
01:17:52,867 --> 01:17:54,907
24 story tower. I think at the core of that

1109
01:17:54,928 --> 01:17:58,267
question was, um, I'm paraphrasing here, but could the towers

1110
01:17:58,307 --> 01:18:05,361
be nine stories tall. Well, through you, Madam Chair, like

1111
01:18:05,401 --> 01:18:07,841
we're, we're, we're proposing 24 stories and we believe that

1112
01:18:08,022 --> 01:18:13,361
our studies demonstrate that they're appropriate for the site. And,

1113
01:18:13,361 --> 01:18:16,662
uh. You know, Will await staff comments. We don't have

1114
01:18:16,683 --> 01:18:19,222
any comments from staff yet on this project. Maybe that's

1115
01:18:19,222 --> 01:18:22,742
something important for the public to know. Uh, so, so

1116
01:18:22,782 --> 01:18:25,222
that, that's our proposal for now. And we believe our

1117
01:18:25,243 --> 01:18:29,043
studies demonstrate the heights are appropriate. Thank you. Thank you.

1118
01:18:29,043 --> 01:18:31,103
And just one more, I'd like to touch on, you

1119
01:18:31,103 --> 01:18:33,763
did mention a bit The flooding. There were concerns expressed

1120
01:18:33,944 --> 01:18:36,963
on question around Annalene, um, storm sewers and how will

1121
01:18:36,963 --> 01:18:39,123
flooding be mitigated. So again, I believe you indicated that

1122
01:18:39,144 --> 01:18:42,163
those studies are yet to come. Is that correct? Yes.

1123
01:18:42,203 --> 01:18:44,483
Through you, Madam Chair partially, like we, we do have

1124
01:18:44,744 --> 01:18:49,243
a servicing study that's been completed for the property. So

1125
01:18:49,243 --> 01:18:53,283
we're aware of upgrades that are necessary, particularly along Beark

1126
01:18:53,283 --> 01:18:55,683
Street. So there are upgrades that are going to be

1127
01:18:56,184 --> 01:19:01,112
unnecessary in the neighbourhood. Thank you. Um, did planning staff

1128
01:19:01,152 --> 01:19:05,313
wish to comment, Mr. Bar. Thanks and through you chair

1129
01:19:05,353 --> 01:19:09,233
just to build off, uh, the comments from Mr. Keene.

1130
01:19:09,233 --> 01:19:11,473
Staff are still reviewing this application. We have not released

1131
01:19:11,494 --> 01:19:14,753
any comments. So the public dialogue that we're listening to

1132
01:19:14,934 --> 01:19:18,433
tonight will form part of our, uh, comments back to

1133
01:19:18,433 --> 01:19:22,913
the applicant on their complete submission. So, um, building off

1134
01:19:22,953 --> 01:19:24,593
of that, I just want to clear up two other

1135
01:19:24,774 --> 01:19:29,133
points. The first, um, about the mayoral debate question, um,

1136
01:19:29,133 --> 01:19:31,393
I'm not aware and I cannot speak for all staff,

1137
01:19:31,393 --> 01:19:33,713
but staff and attendance tonight, we're not at the debate,

1138
01:19:33,713 --> 01:19:35,873
but at least myself and a couple other staff members

1139
01:19:35,974 --> 01:19:39,633
are tracking the election and things that are commented on,

1140
01:19:39,633 --> 01:19:41,393
you know, and reported on through the paper as well.

1141
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:44,978
Additionally, there was a question about, is it illegal to

1142
01:19:45,159 --> 01:19:47,698
cast a shadow? Not that I am aware of, especially

1143
01:19:48,199 --> 01:19:52,578
in the planning practice, property shadow other properties, whether they

1144
01:19:52,578 --> 01:19:55,938
are one story high, three stories high or 20 stories

1145
01:19:55,959 --> 01:19:58,578
high, just depending on how close the building or structure

1146
01:19:58,618 --> 01:20:02,178
is located to another property. Someone's rear yard shed, that

1147
01:20:02,178 --> 01:20:04,418
is three metres high could be construed as casting a

1148
01:20:04,418 --> 01:20:07,218
shadow on someone's property if the fencing or other buffering

1149
01:20:07,218 --> 01:20:08,978
around it just depends on how close it is to

1150
01:20:08,978 --> 01:20:12,418
the lot line. What staff evaluate when we're looking at

1151
01:20:12,839 --> 01:20:16,178
shadowing is not whether or not a shadow is cast

1152
01:20:16,199 --> 01:20:19,378
on a property, but what we evaluate is undue adverse

1153
01:20:19,378 --> 01:20:22,018
impact. So we're looking at how long a shadow was

1154
01:20:22,058 --> 01:20:24,658
on a property and when throughout the year that happened.

1155
01:20:24,658 --> 01:20:27,778
So we do have parameters by which we evaluate this

1156
01:20:27,879 --> 01:20:30,818
under the official plan to conclude whether or not a

1157
01:20:30,858 --> 01:20:35,218
shadow actually constitutes undue adverse impacts or not. So that

1158
01:20:35,239 --> 01:20:37,858
does form part of our review. And we are reviewing

1159
01:20:37,898 --> 01:20:42,702
the shadow study as part of this application. Thank you.

1160
01:20:42,702 --> 01:20:45,402
And just as part of that, um, one of the

1161
01:20:45,402 --> 01:20:47,982
questions were the applicants that the mayoral candidate debate on

1162
01:20:48,022 --> 01:20:55,129
Monday were the applicants there. Through you, Madam Chair, I

1163
01:20:55,129 --> 01:20:59,009
don't know. I was not there. Um, and I know,

1164
01:20:59,009 --> 01:21:01,009
uh, Ray said he was not either. So I'm, I'm

1165
01:21:01,049 --> 01:21:04,049
not sure. But, um, we are also following the campaign

1166
01:21:04,310 --> 01:21:08,129
quite closely. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. So

1167
01:21:08,169 --> 01:21:10,129
we're going to our third round of questions. We're going

1168
01:21:10,169 --> 01:21:12,289
in the room. I see we have four of five

1169
01:21:12,310 --> 01:21:14,209
chairs filled. Is there anyone else in room who would

1170
01:21:14,209 --> 01:21:18,209
like to speak if you would please, I wish I

1171
01:21:18,209 --> 01:21:22,950
could let you speak again, but it can't. Sorry. Sorry,

1172
01:21:22,950 --> 01:21:23,910
we can't have a chat right now, but we can

1173
01:21:23,950 --> 01:21:26,390
chat after. That'd be fine. Um, anyone else in room

1174
01:21:26,411 --> 01:21:30,523
who wishes to speak. Seeing none. Okay. We'll do the

1175
01:21:30,784 --> 01:21:32,603
four folks we have in here. So we'll start at

1176
01:21:32,624 --> 01:21:34,123
this end and work our way down. Turn on your

1177
01:21:34,163 --> 01:21:37,163
microphone. Please state your name and then you'll have five

1178
01:21:37,163 --> 01:21:41,129
minutes to speak. Thank you. Uh, my name's Ken Schmidt.

1179
01:21:41,230 --> 01:21:46,069
I'm a resident of the Annaline condominium building. And, um,

1180
01:21:46,350 --> 01:21:49,929
I, uh, want to ask a question if the submitted

1181
01:21:50,030 --> 01:21:54,089
comments, the written submitted comments that I made, uh, a

1182
01:21:54,089 --> 01:21:56,729
couple of weeks ago to city, would they be included

1183
01:21:56,990 --> 01:21:59,449
in all the information that goes to the planning department.

1184
01:22:00,204 --> 01:22:02,823
So all the comments I made about shadows, et cetera,

1185
01:22:02,863 --> 01:22:04,503
et cetera would be in there as well as the

1186
01:22:04,543 --> 01:22:11,526
diagrams. Perfect. So just a few questions. Um, the shadow

1187
01:22:11,566 --> 01:22:16,086
criteria that's set up, the developers referred to and the

1188
01:22:16,126 --> 01:22:21,942
city. Is it city, um, or developer run. And is

1189
01:22:21,942 --> 01:22:25,132
it city standards or developer standards. The second question I

1190
01:22:25,153 --> 01:22:29,932
had was regarding the articulated podium, uh, was referred to

1191
01:22:30,033 --> 01:22:37,052
by the gentleman, the designer, uh, Ray, I'm sorry, Zaybak.

1192
01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:43,729
And explain very well about it being articulated. However, I

1193
01:22:43,830 --> 01:22:48,289
believe, and I'm asking the question, is it articulated on

1194
01:22:48,329 --> 01:22:52,529
the baguet street side of the structure? I believe it

1195
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:56,929
is not that the residential tower that fronts on baguet

1196
01:22:57,030 --> 01:23:02,689
Street rises vertically like a 24 story, actually 25 story

1197
01:23:02,790 --> 01:23:06,049
wall because there's a, uh, elevator compartment at the top,

1198
01:23:06,049 --> 01:23:09,149
which is three times higher than the antelane building. And

1199
01:23:09,190 --> 01:23:13,409
it would be directly across the street rising virtually from

1200
01:23:13,830 --> 01:23:20,269
street level directly, vertically and no articulation. Um, and, um.

1201
01:23:20,746 --> 01:23:24,645
That's actually, that's the two questions I had because I,

1202
01:23:24,645 --> 01:23:28,165
you answered the question about the submission. Thank you. Thank

1203
01:23:28,165 --> 01:23:31,805
you. Um, we'll head to the next speaker over. Hi.

1204
01:23:37,363 --> 01:23:39,582
Please you'll turn on your microphone state your name and

1205
01:23:39,582 --> 01:23:42,957
I'll give you five minutes. Oh, okay. Um, my name

1206
01:23:42,997 --> 01:23:47,966
is Diane Scott. I also live in the Annalena Apartments

1207
01:23:48,707 --> 01:23:50,926
and we are going to be the most of really

1208
01:23:51,027 --> 01:23:56,847
affected people in this cityscape. I live in the sixth

1209
01:23:56,847 --> 01:24:01,899
floor in about the middle of the building. Not only

1210
01:24:01,939 --> 01:24:04,619
will I not have any sunlight. I will not have

1211
01:24:04,640 --> 01:24:08,459
any sky view because of the fact that we have,

1212
01:24:08,459 --> 01:24:13,739
um, uh, balconies that overhang our windows so that even

1213
01:24:13,779 --> 01:24:16,939
if the sun is directly ahead for a short period

1214
01:24:16,939 --> 01:24:19,179
of time, I will not be able to see it

1215
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:22,859
because there is the bottom floor of a balcony right

1216
01:24:22,859 --> 01:24:27,607
over top of my balcony. So. In Connect also in

1217
01:24:27,607 --> 01:24:33,447
connection with the view. Now this is not, I can't

1218
01:24:33,447 --> 01:24:41,527
give you a nice little slide that I have prepared

1219
01:24:41,628 --> 01:24:46,007
to show, because I'm not exactly sure where the building

1220
01:24:46,047 --> 01:24:50,087
starts and where the building ends. But having done a

1221
01:24:50,108 --> 01:24:54,967
little preliminary standing in my living room, like, um, you

1222
01:24:54,967 --> 01:24:58,887
know, one foot from the window, well, it's actually a

1223
01:24:58,908 --> 01:25:03,607
patio d'or, um, and then stepping back two feet and

1224
01:25:03,647 --> 01:25:07,287
stepping back three feet. If I press my nose against

1225
01:25:07,308 --> 01:25:13,107
the window, I might, might possibly see the sky, but

1226
01:25:13,228 --> 01:25:16,247
I don't think so. I will see nothing to the

1227
01:25:16,268 --> 01:25:20,487
left, nothing to the right except a building in front

1228
01:25:20,487 --> 01:25:24,087
of me. And I will be in The Dark all

1229
01:25:24,127 --> 01:25:28,567
the time. Now this affects also not just my, this

1230
01:25:28,567 --> 01:25:35,615
affects the building in many ways. The electricity costs for

1231
01:25:35,655 --> 01:25:37,455
the people that live on that side of the building

1232
01:25:37,876 --> 01:25:41,594
are going to go up. Um, there's going to be

1233
01:25:42,015 --> 01:25:47,232
data. Because at the moment, um, I already find that

1234
01:25:47,413 --> 01:25:51,792
because on one side, on the, um, okay, it's the

1235
01:25:51,813 --> 01:25:55,632
east side of Annalene, um, which is the affected side

1236
01:25:56,213 --> 01:26:02,430
basically. Because it is a condo building, except for the

1237
01:26:02,611 --> 01:26:08,217
end units, we all have one window. We are not

1238
01:26:08,257 --> 01:26:11,257
a house. We do not have back windows where the

1239
01:26:11,297 --> 01:26:15,097
sun can come in. We have windows along the front.

1240
01:26:15,097 --> 01:26:17,417
And that is it. No side windows, no sun coming

1241
01:26:17,438 --> 01:26:20,697
in any other direction. Um, and no views coming in

1242
01:26:20,798 --> 01:26:25,157
any other direction. So this is a serious impact. Um,

1243
01:26:25,157 --> 01:26:31,097
and enough that for me, it is.

1244
01:26:35,454 --> 01:26:39,593
Well, I have, I have been diagnosed with having sad.

1245
01:26:39,593 --> 01:26:41,753
Okay. So I'm not going to get any sun unless

1246
01:26:41,774 --> 01:26:43,353
I maybe go out in the balcony in the middle

1247
01:26:43,353 --> 01:26:50,188
of January in noon. Um, but. It's a very serious

1248
01:26:51,409 --> 01:26:55,788
side effect as well as having, the issue also in

1249
01:26:55,828 --> 01:27:00,299
that we have a cooler system on the roof. And.

1250
01:27:02,314 --> 01:27:05,813
At the moment. The coolest system does not kick in

1251
01:27:07,754 --> 01:27:14,846
until a certain temperature. And at the moment, because of

1252
01:27:16,067 --> 01:27:19,086
buildings and the sun doesn't, you know, just pop up

1253
01:27:19,347 --> 01:27:23,682
right in front of us. It takes a while for

1254
01:27:23,722 --> 01:27:25,722
the air conditioning to come in in the summer. So

1255
01:27:25,783 --> 01:27:30,890
sometimes in the, um. It takes, it's like first thing

1256
01:27:30,890 --> 01:27:34,130
in the morning. The chiller system is not on. So

1257
01:27:34,191 --> 01:27:37,832
it's pretty hot in the building. Now with the 24

1258
01:27:38,093 --> 01:27:42,392
story building, completely blocking that chiller. I'm not really sure

1259
01:27:42,893 --> 01:27:46,232
when we are going to have, um, the chiller system

1260
01:27:46,253 --> 01:27:49,812
working. So our air conditioning will be off a lot

1261
01:27:49,812 --> 01:27:54,026
of the time. Um, which makes a significant difference. I

1262
01:27:54,026 --> 01:27:57,966
will have no light. I will have no view. And

1263
01:27:58,087 --> 01:28:02,226
I will have no air conditioning, which impacts me severely.

1264
01:28:02,226 --> 01:28:06,786
Um, and, um, it's interesting that, um, in the comments

1265
01:28:06,807 --> 01:28:13,986
that I guess it was the original application of 30

1266
01:28:13,986 --> 01:28:18,626
seconds for the building. 30 seconds left over. You have

1267
01:28:18,666 --> 01:28:23,588
30 seconds left. 30 seconds. 30 seconds. Okay. Um, I

1268
01:28:23,628 --> 01:28:27,602
don't know. Oh trees. The trees are going to die

1269
01:28:27,642 --> 01:28:31,362
on Baggett Street. Okay. They won't die on the other

1270
01:28:31,362 --> 01:28:33,842
side of the street because it's only nine stories barking

1271
01:28:33,863 --> 01:28:37,202
their son. But for 24 hours. So the trees are

1272
01:28:37,202 --> 01:28:40,082
going to die in our plants and our garden. Thank

1273
01:28:40,082 --> 01:28:44,138
you very much. Thank you. Okay. Um, we will move

1274
01:28:44,138 --> 01:28:46,038
on to our next speaker. Please state your name. And

1275
01:28:46,038 --> 01:28:55,908
you have five minutes. Hi, everybody. My name is

1276
01:28:55,929 --> 01:29:00,868
Mary Jorie. I live and work in the downtown core,

1277
01:29:00,868 --> 01:29:03,748
live in block D and work right downtown at King

1278
01:29:03,788 --> 01:29:08,995
and Princess. I, um, also I work for downtown Kingston

1279
01:29:09,016 --> 01:29:12,675
business improvement area, but I'm here as a citizen as

1280
01:29:12,715 --> 01:29:16,995
opposed to my position as an executive director overseeing the

1281
01:29:16,995 --> 01:29:19,955
businesses in the downtown core. Although some of my comments

1282
01:29:19,976 --> 01:29:23,235
will also be reflected because of things that I know,

1283
01:29:23,235 --> 01:29:26,035
uh, because of my position. So I've been to a

1284
01:29:26,035 --> 01:29:28,595
few of these now. And I've also, um, dealt with

1285
01:29:28,635 --> 01:29:30,675
a lot of development in the downtown core for the

1286
01:29:30,715 --> 01:29:33,715
five years that I've been here. It's always challenging when

1287
01:29:33,976 --> 01:29:37,955
there's a new development proposed, um, so it's not surprising

1288
01:29:38,056 --> 01:29:41,695
that the people that are most affected are here. And

1289
01:29:41,695 --> 01:29:43,955
speaking their minds and what a wonderful world we live

1290
01:29:43,955 --> 01:29:46,355
in or wonderful country that we live in that we

1291
01:29:46,395 --> 01:29:49,555
have that ability. I think there's lots of thought provoking

1292
01:29:49,736 --> 01:29:53,075
topics on, especially the shadow topic to me is very

1293
01:29:53,115 --> 01:29:58,195
interesting. Um, certainly I actually almost lived in Annalene when

1294
01:29:58,235 --> 01:30:00,275
I moved here. We looked at the property and we

1295
01:30:00,315 --> 01:30:03,555
decided against it. And, uh, moved over to the other

1296
01:30:03,576 --> 01:30:06,915
side of town just a little bit outside of downtown.

1297
01:30:06,915 --> 01:30:09,235
Cause I felt that Anna Lane and myself and my

1298
01:30:09,235 --> 01:30:12,275
husband was too close to the noise of the city.

1299
01:30:12,916 --> 01:30:19,315
Um, so it's already a noisy area. Um, so I,

1300
01:30:19,315 --> 01:30:22,355
and I'm not sure that air conditioning and all of

1301
01:30:22,355 --> 01:30:24,595
the things that come with these large buildings that we

1302
01:30:24,696 --> 01:30:28,195
also have in block D are going to make it

1303
01:30:28,776 --> 01:30:33,775
any noisier. You're downtown. It's noisy day and night. And

1304
01:30:33,816 --> 01:30:37,955
when I have a balcony that oversees battery park and

1305
01:30:38,056 --> 01:30:40,875
I have a building right in front of me, we

1306
01:30:40,875 --> 01:30:46,435
have sun partially. And I don't see the sun again

1307
01:30:46,456 --> 01:30:49,475
till the next morning. But that is just part of

1308
01:30:49,496 --> 01:30:52,195
my lifestyle where I can go out and, and choose

1309
01:30:52,616 --> 01:30:58,595
other sunny areas to enjoy. So, um, and also it's

1310
01:30:58,635 --> 01:31:01,475
interesting because it sort of made me think about residential

1311
01:31:01,515 --> 01:31:04,675
areas. Residential neighbourhoods, especially just on the other side of

1312
01:31:05,016 --> 01:31:08,115
Queen Street there. I often go walking there to because

1313
01:31:08,155 --> 01:31:10,835
of the shade. So it's funny how we look at

1314
01:31:10,936 --> 01:31:15,235
shade from trees as opposed to shade from a building.

1315
01:31:15,235 --> 01:31:18,835
Um, it's essentially during the same thing except, of course,

1316
01:31:18,856 --> 01:31:25,073
trees create, uh. Yeah, oxygen and also just beauty. So,

1317
01:31:25,073 --> 01:31:27,073
but it just made me think about, well, I'm sure

1318
01:31:27,094 --> 01:31:28,913
there's some houses over there that don't get a heck

1319
01:31:28,953 --> 01:31:30,913
of a lot of sunlight because of the maturity of

1320
01:31:30,913 --> 01:31:34,033
the trees. My understanding, and again, this just comes from

1321
01:31:34,073 --> 01:31:36,913
the position that I hold is that stormwater and sewer

1322
01:31:37,014 --> 01:31:40,593
separation is a citywide challenge. It's not, uh, unique to

1323
01:31:40,633 --> 01:31:44,273
that area. It's something that is being addressed with the

1324
01:31:44,313 --> 01:31:47,233
city and utilities Kingston on a very long - term

1325
01:31:47,654 --> 01:31:53,473
expensive adventure. So, uh, it has to be done. Uh,

1326
01:31:53,814 --> 01:31:56,433
whether it gets done, you know, to support this building

1327
01:31:57,014 --> 01:31:59,713
or not, it has to be done. So that's going

1328
01:31:59,713 --> 01:32:04,433
to happen anyway. I wanted to say that downtown, oh,

1329
01:32:04,433 --> 01:32:08,833
downtown has garbage management challenges everywhere, uh, as we see

1330
01:32:08,873 --> 01:32:11,633
more residents come into town. And as we see more

1331
01:32:11,734 --> 01:32:15,473
buildings come into town, but condominiums and rental apartments are

1332
01:32:15,494 --> 01:32:18,673
the best at managing their garbage because they do have

1333
01:32:19,094 --> 01:32:23,833
internal garbage, um, abilities as the gentleman was saying. So

1334
01:32:23,974 --> 01:32:26,913
I'm not worried about garbage. I would also say I

1335
01:32:26,953 --> 01:32:30,753
have a car. It's in the basement of my, my

1336
01:32:30,854 --> 01:32:33,633
apartment building. And if it got stolen, I wouldn't know

1337
01:32:33,673 --> 01:32:37,073
it because I never use it. When you live downtown,

1338
01:32:37,113 --> 01:32:39,953
you don't use a car. Um, so I don't think

1339
01:32:39,993 --> 01:32:43,473
you're going to see traffic increase with these types of

1340
01:32:43,574 --> 01:32:47,273
buildings. If you, um, are dependent on a car, I

1341
01:32:47,273 --> 01:32:51,633
would suggest that you live in the suburbs because downtown,

1342
01:32:51,633 --> 01:32:57,268
you just, you simply just don't need one. Talked about

1343
01:32:57,268 --> 01:33:00,686
that. Community of people. I just want to talk about

1344
01:33:01,187 --> 01:33:04,026
our block D. We have two rental buildings, which are

1345
01:33:04,307 --> 01:33:08,506
homestead and we also have condominiums at Royal George. And

1346
01:33:08,506 --> 01:33:11,646
we have a hotel. There is a great community of

1347
01:33:11,667 --> 01:33:15,566
people in those, um, in those buildings. And they are

1348
01:33:15,606 --> 01:33:18,846
people who live in adult lifestyle. They don't need three

1349
01:33:18,886 --> 01:33:21,886
bedrooms. Some of them have them, but it's really one

1350
01:33:21,926 --> 01:33:24,346
and a half to two bedrooms that you need. And

1351
01:33:24,387 --> 01:33:28,206
those are, those are in need in our downtown core.

1352
01:33:28,206 --> 01:33:33,879
30 seconds. Additional parking. I think you had said that

1353
01:33:33,980 --> 01:33:37,079
there is the possibility for having some municipal parking when

1354
01:33:37,079 --> 01:33:39,479
everything's done, which is a need in the downtown core,

1355
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:41,999
even though we want to reduce vehicles. We want to

1356
01:33:41,999 --> 01:33:44,999
become more of a walking community. And I do trust

1357
01:33:45,020 --> 01:33:47,639
that the developers, the planning department along with the oversight

1358
01:33:47,639 --> 01:33:50,039
of council will continue the conversation and we'll have some

1359
01:33:50,079 --> 01:33:59,205
great buildings in short order. Thank you. Okay. We've got

1360
01:33:59,466 --> 01:34:02,353
two speakers here. I think we'll come down here. Are

1361
01:34:02,393 --> 01:34:11,152
you ready to speak as well. Thank you. Uh, I'm

1362
01:34:11,192 --> 01:34:15,152
Anthony Jenkins. Let her maraude right now. I'll tell you

1363
01:34:15,152 --> 01:34:18,592
a little more about my background. I came to Kingston

1364
01:34:18,613 --> 01:34:22,501
in 1971 to attend the faculty of education. It was

1365
01:34:22,682 --> 01:34:26,021
a brave new adventure for me and Irish immigrant boy.

1366
01:34:26,745 --> 01:34:30,008
Grew up in Hamilton. And decided to see the world.

1367
01:34:30,615 --> 01:34:35,403
After university where I also attended in Hamilton. Came to

1368
01:34:35,443 --> 01:34:44,858
gangster. Found myself dramatically attracted to the place.

1369
01:34:45,910 --> 01:34:51,569
And while my business and curiosity has taken me all

1370
01:34:51,609 --> 01:34:55,489
over North America, through much of Western Europe and the

1371
01:34:55,489 --> 01:35:00,657
British Isles, they like to be distinct. I am always

1372
01:35:01,238 --> 01:35:05,872
delighted to come home. Unfortunately, that delight has been tempered.

1373
01:35:06,337 --> 01:35:09,996
By some of the projects that we have seen over

1374
01:35:10,017 --> 01:35:13,596
the last 10 years, 20 years. And now with an

1375
01:35:13,636 --> 01:35:19,836
increasing ferocity, we see, I see, I understand a concerted

1376
01:35:19,937 --> 01:35:24,805
attack on our city. I don't want to blame the

1377
01:35:24,826 --> 01:35:29,205
developers. As someone else mentioned, developers do what developers do.

1378
01:35:31,260 --> 01:35:38,255
That's their role. Push the boundaries. The city's role, the

1379
01:35:38,255 --> 01:35:47,101
administration of the city is to limit that. Aggression. To

1380
01:35:47,202 --> 01:35:50,529
slow it down. Take a hard look. Figure out what's

1381
01:35:50,529 --> 01:35:54,410
best. Not in the immediate. But in the long term.

1382
01:35:56,110 --> 01:36:00,409
We don't have a supply problem with housing in Kingston.

1383
01:36:01,192 --> 01:36:08,092
We have an affordability problem. How does this project address

1384
01:36:08,353 --> 01:36:14,554
that legitimate problem. I don't see that it does. The

1385
01:36:14,594 --> 01:36:16,714
notion that the more you build, the cheaper will become

1386
01:36:16,714 --> 01:36:22,275
for the renters. Doesn't stand up the scrutiny. The Global

1387
01:36:22,296 --> 01:36:27,559
Mail article was referenced earlier. Doesn't. Support. This kind of

1388
01:36:27,660 --> 01:36:37,533
development for those reasons. So

1389
01:36:37,634 --> 01:36:44,167
I have, in summary, two words for this proposal. Bizarre

1390
01:36:44,508 --> 01:36:51,148
and absurd. My question for the proponents of this proposal

1391
01:36:51,148 --> 01:36:54,428
is, what are you thinking? Who are you trying to

1392
01:36:54,449 --> 01:37:03,889
benefit. Where is your data. My question to staff, planning

1393
01:37:03,910 --> 01:37:06,935
in particular. Is do you know, do you realise that

1394
01:37:07,196 --> 01:37:11,175
you're losing credibility with every such absurd and bizarre project

1395
01:37:11,356 --> 01:37:14,789
that you champion. You are not working for us. Who

1396
01:37:14,810 --> 01:37:17,408
is it to pull your chain. It's not the people.

1397
01:37:21,743 --> 01:37:26,042
My comment to the citizens who have put themselves out.

1398
01:37:26,042 --> 01:37:29,268
And it is an inconvenience. To oppose this prosecutic as

1399
01:37:29,268 --> 01:37:36,985
good on you, every one of you. If I can

1400
01:37:36,985 --> 01:37:40,105
just take one nostalgic look back to that first year

1401
01:37:40,126 --> 01:37:43,927
in kinks in 1971. It was over a cafeteria lunch

1402
01:37:44,748 --> 01:37:47,447
with a man named Lars Thompson, who was an instructor

1403
01:37:47,548 --> 01:37:52,632
on faculty. And are renowned pragmatic philosopher among us, a

1404
01:37:52,632 --> 01:37:56,063
renowned among us students there. And in that lunch towards

1405
01:37:56,103 --> 01:37:58,763
the end of that year, he said to me, uh,

1406
01:37:58,964 --> 01:38:02,463
Tony, as I then called myself and still sometimes do.

1407
01:38:04,940 --> 01:38:06,839
If the one thing you can take away from your

1408
01:38:07,020 --> 01:38:10,929
experience here, it is that you should always. Challenge the

1409
01:38:10,950 --> 01:38:14,170
assumptions. And I see a lot of stuff being done

1410
01:38:14,911 --> 01:38:17,210
on assumptions that have not been challenged, that have not

1411
01:38:17,250 --> 01:38:21,409
been vetted, that have not been examined thoroughly. Thank you.

1412
01:38:23,224 --> 01:38:26,730
Thank you. Okay, we'll go to our last speaker in

1413
01:38:26,730 --> 01:38:28,250
the room. Please state your name and you have five

1414
01:38:28,290 --> 01:38:32,307
minutes. Thank you very much. Vicky Schmolka. Oh, I have

1415
01:38:32,307 --> 01:38:35,667
to start by saying I feel very sad. And I

1416
01:38:35,667 --> 01:38:38,067
feel very sad in part because of what I think

1417
01:38:38,168 --> 01:38:43,827
Mr. Jenkins just said. We are destroying something very precious

1418
01:38:44,568 --> 01:38:47,587
to all the residents of Kingston who take their visitors

1419
01:38:47,627 --> 01:38:52,627
downtown, who come downtown for events who enjoy the ambience

1420
01:38:52,648 --> 01:38:57,342
of a human - scale city. And this is not

1421
01:38:57,382 --> 01:39:01,593
about the developer. It's not about the architect. They do

1422
01:39:01,614 --> 01:39:05,273
fine work in other places. It's about this site and

1423
01:39:05,273 --> 01:39:09,750
whether or not this site is good planning. And I

1424
01:39:09,750 --> 01:39:13,762
think we've heard ample evidence that it is not. I

1425
01:39:13,783 --> 01:39:18,882
have these questions. When do the official plan change? Because

1426
01:39:18,983 --> 01:39:25,202
my understanding is that the North Bloc allowed Intensification, higher

1427
01:39:25,242 --> 01:39:29,922
buildings. And that's what we're seeing with The Madeline and

1428
01:39:29,943 --> 01:39:32,642
the Good Life Plan and the other building that's going

1429
01:39:32,663 --> 01:39:37,649
up at Queen Street. My understanding was that outside that

1430
01:39:37,689 --> 01:39:41,569
area of intensification, the idea was to limit height to

1431
01:39:41,569 --> 01:39:46,549
protect the heritage character of our city. And in particular,

1432
01:39:47,850 --> 01:39:50,949
um, the zoning bylaw that Mirror is what's in the

1433
01:39:50,989 --> 01:39:56,713
official plan. Says that it's a 17 metre height within

1434
01:39:56,753 --> 01:40:00,953
of 39 angular degree angular plane that allows a building

1435
01:40:00,953 --> 01:40:04,393
to be 25. 5 metres. And we saw that briefly

1436
01:40:04,734 --> 01:40:08,153
at Mr. Keene's presentation. But I would like to ask

1437
01:40:08,574 --> 01:40:11,673
staff, is that indeed the zoning bylaw that now applies

1438
01:40:11,713 --> 01:40:16,393
to this site. 17 metres, 39 degree angular plane, 25.

1439
01:40:16,414 --> 01:40:21,021
5 metre height. Because this is a request to completely

1440
01:40:21,362 --> 01:40:26,301
blow up that official plan and that zoning for this

1441
01:40:26,341 --> 01:40:34,061
particular site, for this particular development. And yeah, it's not

1442
01:40:34,162 --> 01:40:36,781
okay with the public, because I think Carrie Hill tried

1443
01:40:36,821 --> 01:40:39,901
to indicate when she talked about the mayor of candidates

1444
01:40:39,922 --> 01:40:43,969
meeting earlier this week. And I want to ask about

1445
01:40:44,390 --> 01:40:48,289
precedent because people said that these buildings will create a

1446
01:40:48,329 --> 01:40:52,090
precedent. I would like to ask staff, if in their

1447
01:40:52,090 --> 01:40:55,450
opinion, the buildings that are allowed more height in the

1448
01:40:55,471 --> 01:41:00,170
North Block create a precedent for the rest of downtown.

1449
01:41:00,170 --> 01:41:03,530
Or if the Planning Policies did limit the height to

1450
01:41:03,631 --> 01:41:09,657
that particular area and not further. I was very disappointed

1451
01:41:09,678 --> 01:41:14,377
that the planning professionals here did not present a map

1452
01:41:14,398 --> 01:41:17,257
showing the Heritage Buildings that are directly in the same

1453
01:41:17,598 --> 01:41:21,817
block as this proposed building. And the Heritage Buildings that

1454
01:41:21,857 --> 01:41:28,651
are within a reasonable. Area surrounding it. We know tourists

1455
01:41:28,691 --> 01:41:32,769
come to our city because it has character. And as

1456
01:41:32,769 --> 01:41:36,289
beautiful as these buildings might be somewhere else, and I

1457
01:41:36,289 --> 01:41:40,289
appreciate the attempt to make them have rounded corners. They're

1458
01:41:40,329 --> 01:41:45,121
not beautiful here. They're an intrusion here. They're incompatible here.

1459
01:41:45,782 --> 01:41:51,361
Frankly, they're a very disappointing approach to planning this part

1460
01:41:51,361 --> 01:41:55,641
of the city. Um, an eight - story building, as

1461
01:41:55,641 --> 01:41:59,441
I understand as allowed by the zoning, would be okay.

1462
01:42:00,857 --> 01:42:03,556
My other question is, we've heard clearly from the people

1463
01:42:03,897 --> 01:42:09,156
at Annalaine that their enjoyment of their property, their ability,

1464
01:42:09,156 --> 01:42:12,756
maybe even to live in their property, those with seasonal

1465
01:42:12,777 --> 01:42:17,396
effective disorder or other special needs. Um, might cause them

1466
01:42:17,436 --> 01:42:19,876
to leave. And I want to know what is the

1467
01:42:19,916 --> 01:42:23,076
obligation of the city. This is directed at staff too.

1468
01:42:23,076 --> 01:42:25,636
What is the obligation of the city when a new

1469
01:42:25,657 --> 01:42:29,796
building undermines enjoyment of people living in an existing building

1470
01:42:30,537 --> 01:42:34,076
and also probably affects their property values? Because there's no

1471
01:42:34,076 --> 01:42:37,316
doubt that if you are looking at an apartment that

1472
01:42:37,337 --> 01:42:43,156
has no sun in September to March, in the morning,

1473
01:42:43,257 --> 01:42:47,396
uh, which is what I understood from the shadow studies,

1474
01:42:47,396 --> 01:42:50,516
then your building is your condo unit is not going

1475
01:42:50,516 --> 01:42:53,796
to first sell for so much. So what is our

1476
01:42:53,836 --> 01:42:57,556
responsibility as a city to protect someone else's investment that

1477
01:42:57,596 --> 01:43:02,416
they've already made. 30 seconds. Perfect. Um, thank you. I

1478
01:43:02,416 --> 01:43:06,236
just want to point out that the community meeting, the

1479
01:43:06,677 --> 01:43:09,216
Merrill meeting, I don't want to call it debate because

1480
01:43:09,216 --> 01:43:12,136
it was hardly a debate is available on YouTube. So

1481
01:43:12,136 --> 01:43:15,216
if anybody wants to watch it and see it, it

1482
01:43:15,216 --> 01:43:18,976
is on the coalition of Kingston Communities who hosted that

1483
01:43:19,016 --> 01:43:21,616
meeting on their website. And you can get a link

1484
01:43:21,656 --> 01:43:25,376
to watch that meeting and hear, um, how the crowd

1485
01:43:25,557 --> 01:43:28,736
responded to the idea of downtown development that is high

1486
01:43:28,736 --> 01:43:35,284
rise. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So we've had five

1487
01:43:35,305 --> 01:43:37,284
speakers. So we're going to turn to the applicant for

1488
01:43:37,465 --> 01:43:47,437
responses. If I could talk

1489
01:43:47,437 --> 01:43:50,917
about the question about articulation on the, on the, I

1490
01:43:50,917 --> 01:43:55,517
think it was the baguet and Queen Street near the

1491
01:43:55,538 --> 01:43:57,117
bag in Queens Street. There is a section of the

1492
01:43:57,157 --> 01:44:01,046
building. Where the tower comes down to the second floor

1493
01:44:01,627 --> 01:44:04,646
directly disciplined. It's a limited portion of the building that

1494
01:44:04,646 --> 01:44:07,446
comes down there. And that's simply an attempt to integrate

1495
01:44:07,486 --> 01:44:11,848
the tower more with the base of the building. It

1496
01:44:12,109 --> 01:44:14,408
doesn't occur right at the corner. It occurs somewhat down.

1497
01:44:17,380 --> 01:44:22,237
The. Virtual. Sorry, sir. I know you're trying to contribute.

1498
01:44:22,237 --> 01:44:24,717
I have to maintain an order. Thank you. That's correct.

1499
01:44:24,738 --> 01:44:32,131
It's across the street from Annalene. Yes. Okay. Three you

1500
01:44:32,171 --> 01:44:37,714
madam chair. Just a few more. Points to address. Um,

1501
01:44:38,395 --> 01:44:42,454
one point I want to clarify, um, I had mentioned.

1502
01:44:44,712 --> 01:44:47,971
Public parking is what we're shooting for. Uh, one comment

1503
01:44:47,992 --> 01:44:53,171
was that it was municipal parking. I don't want to,

1504
01:44:53,171 --> 01:44:56,691
there was a comment about, uh, they're happy we're providing

1505
01:44:56,952 --> 01:45:00,051
municipal parking. And I just want to be clear that,

1506
01:45:00,051 --> 01:45:04,371
uh, what we're providing is public parking. There's, there's not

1507
01:45:04,411 --> 01:45:06,931
been any discussion with the city about whether that would

1508
01:45:06,931 --> 01:45:09,571
be municipal. So that's just a distinction I want to

1509
01:45:09,611 --> 01:45:13,891
be clear on that we are proposing parking publicly available.

1510
01:45:15,403 --> 01:45:18,642
Because of a surplus of parking that we're providing. Not

1511
01:45:18,642 --> 01:45:21,222
that there's been any discussion with the city that that

1512
01:45:21,222 --> 01:45:30,258
would be something the city takes on. There were, you

1513
01:45:30,258 --> 01:45:32,758
know, there were some questions and comments about like, you

1514
01:45:32,758 --> 01:45:35,638
know, where does your data come from to get this?

1515
01:45:35,638 --> 01:45:39,238
And I can assure you, we don't propose these things

1516
01:45:39,739 --> 01:45:45,238
willy - nilly. They are, uh, expensive and complicated processes.

1517
01:45:45,238 --> 01:45:48,598
And our clients do use market data, uh, before bringing

1518
01:45:48,939 --> 01:45:52,438
forward an application, uh, of this nature.

1519
01:45:58,899 --> 01:46:02,318
You know, I do appreciate the, you know, the concerns

1520
01:46:02,419 --> 01:46:09,598
with view and with shadowing. And I know the it's

1521
01:46:09,598 --> 01:46:12,718
acceptable. Uh, I just ask you to look at the

1522
01:46:12,718 --> 01:46:16,977
studies that are on the website. You know, you can't

1523
01:46:16,998 --> 01:46:20,337
look at one hour of time. Certainly there will be

1524
01:46:20,358 --> 01:46:25,457
change. And as, as Mr. Bar said, uh, he articulated

1525
01:46:25,478 --> 01:46:29,457
how the city will be reviewing those studies, uh, when

1526
01:46:29,478 --> 01:46:34,901
they provide us back comments. I would also like to

1527
01:46:34,941 --> 01:46:37,061
point out there were comments, you know, with respect to

1528
01:46:37,322 --> 01:46:41,221
like when, when did the official plan change, uh, because

1529
01:46:41,221 --> 01:46:44,901
the speaker felt this is not in complying with the

1530
01:46:44,922 --> 01:46:48,421
official plan. And I just, just remind everyone that we're

1531
01:46:48,522 --> 01:46:50,901
only here for his owning bylaw amendment. We're not here

1532
01:46:51,082 --> 01:46:55,301
for an official plan amendment. So by default, the application

1533
01:46:56,282 --> 01:47:02,198
is in conformity with the official plan. The zoning in

1534
01:47:02,238 --> 01:47:07,078
this area is from 1996. Uh, it was not changed

1535
01:47:07,499 --> 01:47:11,558
with the newest zoning bylaw. And the speaker was correct

1536
01:47:11,979 --> 01:47:17,078
that that zoning allows for 17 metre height, angular plane

1537
01:47:17,339 --> 01:47:20,278
stepping up to 25 and a half metres. Uh, that

1538
01:47:20,299 --> 01:47:24,038
would be for the staples portion, uh, of the property.

1539
01:47:29,884 --> 01:47:33,503
And there were a few other comments that were, I

1540
01:47:33,564 --> 01:47:37,303
guess, more specifically directed to staff. I don't know if

1541
01:47:37,484 --> 01:47:39,703
staff want to take any of those. And if I've,

1542
01:47:39,743 --> 01:47:41,383
if I've missed any of my notes, I'm happy to

1543
01:47:41,423 --> 01:47:43,783
address those, Madam Chair. Thank you. I have one more

1544
01:47:43,884 --> 01:47:46,423
that I believe was Directed for you. There were several

1545
01:47:46,444 --> 01:47:50,183
rhetorical questions. However, there was one question. How does this

1546
01:47:50,183 --> 01:47:56,717
project help with affordability. Yes. Through you, Madam Chair. I

1547
01:47:56,757 --> 01:48:00,477
don't know at this moment is the honest answer. Like

1548
01:48:00,477 --> 01:48:04,157
at this point we are proposing rental. We're not proposing

1549
01:48:04,498 --> 01:48:07,837
condo. Uh, but we really have not had any discussions

1550
01:48:07,877 --> 01:48:12,237
on affordability, nor really have we finished the final suite

1551
01:48:12,237 --> 01:48:15,517
mix. Um, but, but it's certainly an interest that I

1552
01:48:15,517 --> 01:48:19,357
know will be addressing with staff. Thank you. Thank you.

1553
01:48:19,778 --> 01:48:24,457
Mr. Bar. Thanks. And through you chair. I just want

1554
01:48:24,457 --> 01:48:27,737
to provide some clarification about the zoning that's applicable to

1555
01:48:27,918 --> 01:48:30,697
the site. This site does have old zoning from an

1556
01:48:30,737 --> 01:48:36,617
old Ontario land tribunal that actually programs over 75 percent

1557
01:48:36,617 --> 01:48:40,457
of the site currently proposed by the applicants to have

1558
01:48:40,478 --> 01:48:44,169
a 10 story building on it. With a seven Storie

1559
01:48:44,169 --> 01:48:47,689
Street wall. So that is up to about 117 metres

1560
01:48:47,790 --> 01:48:51,449
geodetic on the site. And it does not require any

1561
01:48:51,630 --> 01:48:54,969
angular plane requirements. So what you would typically see in

1562
01:48:54,969 --> 01:48:57,769
a downtown zone, especially the DT1 zone, which does have

1563
01:48:58,110 --> 01:49:02,569
provisions that speak to a maximum height of 25, five,

1564
01:49:02,569 --> 01:49:04,649
and, uh, you know, 17 metre street wall that you

1565
01:49:04,649 --> 01:49:07,289
would typically see within the North Block area is not

1566
01:49:07,289 --> 01:49:10,489
applicable to the vast majority of this site, the frontalong

1567
01:49:10,529 --> 01:49:13,529
baguet Street because of that old Ontario land tribunal hearing

1568
01:49:13,790 --> 01:49:16,329
where it programmed in the zoning for a 10 story

1569
01:49:16,350 --> 01:49:22,533
mixed use building. Looking at the other questions that I

1570
01:49:22,714 --> 01:49:26,853
got, uh, I'll work my way through these. So what

1571
01:49:26,893 --> 01:49:30,053
is the obligation of the city when a new building,

1572
01:49:30,053 --> 01:49:33,893
uh, potentially, uh, in the terms of the person who

1573
01:49:33,933 --> 01:49:37,493
asked the question undermines the enjoyment of a citizen in

1574
01:49:37,493 --> 01:49:40,533
their building, um, we look at the tests of the

1575
01:49:40,634 --> 01:49:44,373
official plan, which looks at undue adverse impact. So when

1576
01:49:44,554 --> 01:49:48,133
we're evaluating these types of buildings, we're looking at the

1577
01:49:48,234 --> 01:49:52,133
policies of the official plan and what is considered reasonable

1578
01:49:52,234 --> 01:49:55,173
development for the area in which it's proposed. So that

1579
01:49:55,514 --> 01:49:59,093
includes all of the tests under section 27, which talk

1580
01:49:59,093 --> 01:50:02,933
about normal enjoyment of one's property, adverse impacts related to

1581
01:50:03,034 --> 01:50:08,533
shadowing traffic noise architectural incompatibility and those other, uh, key

1582
01:50:08,554 --> 01:50:12,213
pieces of the cities official plan, which seeks to evaluate

1583
01:50:12,314 --> 01:50:16,133
whether or proposal is compatible with the adjacent uses that

1584
01:50:16,154 --> 01:50:19,253
are around it. Staff are still undertaking a review of

1585
01:50:19,253 --> 01:50:22,773
this application. And we have not formed our opinion yet.

1586
01:50:22,773 --> 01:50:25,573
And we will be providing comments to the applicants. Post

1587
01:50:25,573 --> 01:50:28,947
this meeting. There was a question about impact of property

1588
01:50:28,968 --> 01:50:32,467
value and property value is not a planning consideration. This

1589
01:50:32,648 --> 01:50:35,027
has also been ruled on by the Ontario Land Tribunal.

1590
01:50:36,727 --> 01:50:39,026
There was a question about precedent in the downtown area

1591
01:50:39,447 --> 01:50:42,306
and whether or not one tower has created the precedent

1592
01:50:42,306 --> 01:50:45,666
for more towers everywhere downtown, uh, you know, we have

1593
01:50:45,847 --> 01:50:49,906
communicated this through other applications that have come forward to

1594
01:50:49,927 --> 01:50:54,466
committee about how downtown is being considered for the development

1595
01:50:54,487 --> 01:50:57,106
that we're seeing in both a mid - rise and

1596
01:50:57,146 --> 01:51:01,266
high rise format. Um, there are overlapping policy layers within

1597
01:51:01,367 --> 01:51:06,306
downtown where specific key areas like the St. Lawrence Board,

1598
01:51:06,306 --> 01:51:08,226
which is kind of the southern end of the Kingstown

1599
01:51:08,407 --> 01:51:13,586
district. Downtown princess Street in Sydney Ward all have different

1600
01:51:14,407 --> 01:51:17,186
varying heritage policies that apply to it in the form

1601
01:51:17,186 --> 01:51:22,706
of individually designated properties. Uh, heritage conservation districts that also

1602
01:51:22,746 --> 01:51:25,106
take into account market square. But then the official plan

1603
01:51:25,207 --> 01:51:27,506
as an additional policy layover top of all of that

1604
01:51:28,087 --> 01:51:31,506
for Heritage Character areas, those areas are very specific on

1605
01:51:31,527 --> 01:51:34,626
where they apply. They are mapped in the official plan

1606
01:51:35,047 --> 01:51:37,666
and there are policies that apply to those mapped areas.

1607
01:51:38,865 --> 01:51:41,724
The North block is not one of those heritage character

1608
01:51:41,905 --> 01:51:47,314
areas. The site where the Metro is, is also not

1609
01:51:47,354 --> 01:51:49,874
one of those Heritage Character areas. And the staple site

1610
01:51:49,914 --> 01:51:52,274
does not fall within one of those heritage character areas

1611
01:51:52,295 --> 01:51:55,554
as well. So the policies of those heritage character areas

1612
01:51:56,055 --> 01:52:00,754
do not apply to these sites. Um, sorry, this site,

1613
01:52:00,754 --> 01:52:05,107
I should say in the singular. The buildings that you

1614
01:52:05,128 --> 01:52:09,747
saw for, uh, homestead, which are going up on Queen

1615
01:52:09,747 --> 01:52:13,747
Street for the Staples site, uh, and for the Metro

1616
01:52:13,768 --> 01:52:16,547
site, uh, do not have those policies that apply to

1617
01:52:16,547 --> 01:52:19,507
it, not even an adjacency format. So there are tests

1618
01:52:19,507 --> 01:52:22,227
and evaluation are different under the plan. So that's where

1619
01:52:22,488 --> 01:52:26,067
the majority of the high rise development to date has

1620
01:52:26,107 --> 01:52:31,107
been discussed and directed to and approved by council through

1621
01:52:31,288 --> 01:52:35,827
either, uh, actual decisions of council around the horseshoe or

1622
01:52:35,867 --> 01:52:40,067
through settlement or through the Ontario Land tribunal. That those

1623
01:52:40,107 --> 01:52:42,707
have been the appropriate locations for heights. And they're being

1624
01:52:42,747 --> 01:52:45,987
concentrated in two specific areas in downtown, one being the

1625
01:52:46,027 --> 01:52:49,107
North Block. The second being The Hub. With other conversations

1626
01:52:49,448 --> 01:52:52,627
centring around, uh, different scaled buildings when we're looking at

1627
01:52:53,208 --> 01:52:56,387
any type of development that would be within the Williamsville

1628
01:52:56,408 --> 01:52:59,587
area within the St. Lawrence Board Heritage character area or

1629
01:52:59,587 --> 01:53:03,507
within the downtown lower princess Street Heritage Character area. So

1630
01:53:03,768 --> 01:53:08,147
the nuance consideration to how downtown has been talked about

1631
01:53:08,648 --> 01:53:11,547
for development and what's being considered in specific areas. So

1632
01:53:12,088 --> 01:53:14,387
staff in their evaluation of this will be applying all

1633
01:53:14,408 --> 01:53:17,027
of the appropriate tests of the official plan that apply

1634
01:53:17,067 --> 01:53:19,887
to this site in our evaluation of whether or not

1635
01:53:19,928 --> 01:53:24,187
this will be a supportable development. Thank you very much.

1636
01:53:24,187 --> 01:53:26,627
And there was one more question near the beginning. It

1637
01:53:26,627 --> 01:53:28,827
was in relation to shadows, but the question was around,

1638
01:53:28,827 --> 01:53:31,227
um, are the standards, the city standards or the standard

1639
01:53:31,328 --> 01:53:35,789
set by developers. Could you address that, please? Thanks, Interview

1640
01:53:35,789 --> 01:53:38,009
Chair. The standards are not set by the developers. The

1641
01:53:38,009 --> 01:53:42,811
standards are set by the city. Thank you. I think

1642
01:53:42,832 --> 01:53:46,171
that covers all the questions I had recorded. Um, so

1643
01:53:46,432 --> 01:53:49,051
just looking at the time right now, I have 756.

1644
01:53:49,051 --> 01:53:50,891
We've been going almost two hours. I think it's appropriate

1645
01:53:50,912 --> 01:53:53,291
to take a short break. Um, so we'll do, we'll

1646
01:53:53,312 --> 01:53:58,171
do nine minutes. So we'll be back here at 805.

1647
01:53:58,171 --> 01:54:00,011
Okay. So see back here at 805. Thanks everyone.

1648
02:03:22,560 --> 02:03:25,259
All right, team, it is 8. 05, so we will

1649
02:03:25,280 --> 02:03:29,579
jump back in. We are going to check online first,

1650
02:03:29,579 --> 02:03:39,294
and then we'll come back in the room. And I

1651
02:03:39,294 --> 02:03:45,433
will call on Justin Conidis. Hi there, please state your

1652
02:03:45,433 --> 02:03:45,833
name.

1653
02:04:01,789 --> 02:04:06,669
Micro. On. Now. We can hear you now. Just please

1654
02:04:06,709 --> 02:04:10,998
state your name and your five minutes will start. My

1655
02:04:10,998 --> 02:04:16,935
name is Justin Kenidis. I guess I'm a long time

1656
02:04:17,196 --> 02:04:21,095
Kingston resident. I lived in Kingston from 1956 until 19.

1657
02:04:22,652 --> 02:04:25,911
From 79 to 2003. I lived in Toronto, then came

1658
02:04:25,911 --> 02:04:28,711
back to Kingston, so I think back in Kingston since

1659
02:04:28,812 --> 02:04:35,064
then. It's the first 15 years of my professional life

1660
02:04:35,245 --> 02:04:37,624
in Toronto. I spent a lot of time representing developers.

1661
02:04:38,270 --> 02:04:41,449
So I can certainly confirm a point based by somebody

1662
02:04:41,470 --> 02:04:45,129
else that Schultz and Z - back are just messengers

1663
02:04:45,169 --> 02:04:48,889
here, and they were just doing their bidding of their

1664
02:04:48,929 --> 02:04:53,929
clients, so any criticisms of the design really would not

1665
02:04:53,929 --> 02:05:02,771
be a reflection on Schultz and Zbek. Anyway, I'm not

1666
02:05:02,771 --> 02:05:05,411
going to repeat things that have already been said. I

1667
02:05:05,432 --> 02:05:07,011
other than say I agree, but a lot of what

1668
02:05:07,051 --> 02:05:11,216
I've heard today. I'd just like to raise, I guess,

1669
02:05:11,237 --> 02:05:15,136
five points. First, I wish our city staff and our

1670
02:05:15,136 --> 02:05:17,616
mayor would stand up for our official plan and our

1671
02:05:17,656 --> 02:05:25,453
bylaws. Of public input went into establishing our official plan.

1672
02:05:25,453 --> 02:05:30,173
There was lots of public consultation and compromises made and

1673
02:05:30,173 --> 02:05:33,053
so forth to arrive at things like the existing height

1674
02:05:33,053 --> 02:05:37,613
limits and setback in Angular Plain Requirements and the official

1675
02:05:37,653 --> 02:05:42,333
plan. And the bylaw, and all that seems to have

1676
02:05:42,434 --> 02:05:46,483
happened is there's two sections of Point of Water. Staff.

1677
02:05:46,483 --> 02:05:49,283
Look at. Pause for just a moment, please. Pause, thank

1678
02:05:49,283 --> 02:05:53,235
you. I'll pause your time. Yes, Councillor Shaves. He's reflecting

1679
02:05:53,256 --> 02:05:57,395
on gen and not part of this agenda. So he's

1680
02:05:57,435 --> 02:06:00,395
talking about the mayor, who's not part of this, or

1681
02:06:00,536 --> 02:06:03,555
electoral debate. So could the topic remain on what's on

1682
02:06:03,595 --> 02:06:05,395
the agenda for tonight, please? I think that's a fair

1683
02:06:05,395 --> 02:06:10,335
request. So, Justin, I'm going to restart your time. And

1684
02:06:10,335 --> 02:06:12,595
if we could just keep it focused on tonight's application,

1685
02:06:12,595 --> 02:06:22,592
that would be appreciated. Thank you. You're welcome to

1686
02:06:22,693 --> 02:06:32,643
continue. And.

1687
02:06:32,707 --> 02:06:36,418
By unmuted now. Yes, you are. I'll restart your time

1688
02:06:36,418 --> 02:06:40,665
now. Sorry, I didn't notice that pop up. On the

1689
02:06:40,705 --> 02:06:44,929
screen. Sorry, I thought I was fall on topic, but

1690
02:06:45,690 --> 02:06:48,933
I can see how people may not agree. Anyway. I

1691
02:06:48,954 --> 02:06:52,133
guess my experience my years working with developers is that

1692
02:06:52,173 --> 02:06:54,373
if they know they're working with the municipality that stands

1693
02:06:54,413 --> 02:06:58,933
up and stands up for their official plan and bylaws,

1694
02:06:58,933 --> 02:07:01,253
they'll follow them. If they know they can drive a

1695
02:07:01,253 --> 02:07:03,493
truck to them, they're going to, they'll go to, they'll

1696
02:07:03,493 --> 02:07:06,349
drive a truck through them. And so that's the context

1697
02:07:06,610 --> 02:07:09,469
in which I was saying, I wish this municipality would

1698
02:07:09,509 --> 02:07:16,979
stand up for its official plan and bylaws. So in

1699
02:07:17,019 --> 02:07:21,059
that context, for example, I think if the developer come

1700
02:07:21,059 --> 02:07:24,139
in with a bosal based on the existing 7, 10

1701
02:07:24,360 --> 02:07:27,699
story zoning for 75 percent of the property and complied

1702
02:07:27,699 --> 02:07:29,539
with the official plan and the bylaw for the rest

1703
02:07:29,539 --> 02:07:32,259
of the property, we wouldn't have a PAC meeting tonight.

1704
02:07:33,663 --> 02:07:35,802
And you'd probably see a development going ahead very quickly.

1705
02:07:36,458 --> 02:07:40,037
But because developers are learning that they can push in

1706
02:07:40,037 --> 02:07:44,542
the city always seems to bend. The maximum requirements and

1707
02:07:44,542 --> 02:07:50,564
our official plan on biolog become minimum requirements. Second point,

1708
02:07:50,564 --> 02:07:53,684
I guess just on the shadowing, I mean, obviously I

1709
02:07:53,684 --> 02:07:56,244
think the general rule is if bylaw and official plan

1710
02:07:56,425 --> 02:08:01,086
allows something, then the shadowing is legal. I think it's

1711
02:08:01,086 --> 02:08:04,926
certainly incumbent upon staff and the city to consider when

1712
02:08:04,966 --> 02:08:07,486
someone's applying for an amendment to the bylaw that's going

1713
02:08:07,486 --> 02:08:11,326
to result in dramatic changes to shadowing to give very

1714
02:08:11,366 --> 02:08:13,711
high consideration of that. I think if this is a

1715
02:08:13,732 --> 02:08:17,151
high rise being proposed on the old Canadian tire site

1716
02:08:17,172 --> 02:08:20,191
at the Old Traffic Circle, shadowing would be a much

1717
02:08:20,191 --> 02:08:23,151
different concern than it is putting a tall building up

1718
02:08:23,191 --> 02:08:29,878
in the middle of Heritage Buildings. So point is a

1719
02:08:29,878 --> 02:08:33,638
more specific requirement as the staff goes through it. It's,

1720
02:08:33,638 --> 02:08:34,758
I mean, I own a fair amount of real estate

1721
02:08:34,859 --> 02:08:39,547
in town. And also familiar with some buildings, including Bak

1722
02:08:39,587 --> 02:08:42,667
Yib Homestead Buildings in Block D and the Annaline building.

1723
02:08:44,825 --> 02:08:47,684
It always amazes me that the city does not require

1724
02:08:48,185 --> 02:08:52,724
tall buildings such as all the homestead buildings to have

1725
02:08:52,825 --> 02:08:56,460
green pin program. If I invite you to go down

1726
02:08:56,460 --> 02:09:00,140
to the garbage room, say, I guess I take KD5

1727
02:09:00,241 --> 02:09:02,620
Ontario Street, that's probably homestead's best building in the city.

1728
02:09:03,259 --> 02:09:06,758
And it's garbage room smells like most taller private building

1729
02:09:06,798 --> 02:09:08,838
garbage rooms. You go to, cause they don't have a

1730
02:09:08,859 --> 02:09:12,518
green bin program. So garbage means rotting stuff as an

1731
02:09:12,558 --> 02:09:17,245
olive ins. You go into the analytine building, which is

1732
02:09:17,245 --> 02:09:20,285
one of the few mid tie rise buildings in the

1733
02:09:20,285 --> 02:09:22,445
city that has a green pin program and their garbage

1734
02:09:22,485 --> 02:09:25,325
room does not spell because the rotting materials are in

1735
02:09:25,325 --> 02:09:29,805
the green bins. So it just seems beyond belief that

1736
02:09:29,845 --> 02:09:33,325
the city does not require green vinse and high rise.

1737
02:09:33,325 --> 02:09:39,460
You have 30 seconds left. Okay. The, uh, I'll just

1738
02:09:39,460 --> 02:09:41,300
make one final point then, which is on the public

1739
02:09:41,401 --> 02:09:45,773
parking, which is, and this is really a question. Is

1740
02:09:45,773 --> 02:09:47,853
the public park going to be rented out on the

1741
02:09:47,853 --> 02:09:51,422
monthly basis or just on an hourly basis. And if

1742
02:09:51,422 --> 02:09:54,782
it's being rendered out of monthly basis, our tenants from

1743
02:09:54,822 --> 02:09:57,262
the building going to be eligible for those monthly passes,

1744
02:09:57,262 --> 02:09:59,342
or is that parking? It's really going to be kept

1745
02:09:59,443 --> 02:10:01,482
for members of the public and not people who are

1746
02:10:01,482 --> 02:10:05,720
living in the building. And that's your time. Well timed.

1747
02:10:05,720 --> 02:10:08,573
Thank you. Just checking online to see if the other

1748
02:10:08,613 --> 02:10:14,028
speaker. If you are online, I would wish to speak,

1749
02:10:14,028 --> 02:10:23,078
please raise your hand in Zoom. Okay. Seeing none. So

1750
02:10:23,078 --> 02:10:24,238
we'll go back in the room. I see we have

1751
02:10:24,278 --> 02:10:25,838
two people who wish to speak. Is there anyone else

1752
02:10:25,859 --> 02:10:28,798
in the room who wants to speak. This is kind

1753
02:10:28,798 --> 02:10:31,989
of your last chance. If you do, you can sit

1754
02:10:31,989 --> 02:10:33,749
in one of these chairs. Um, so go to our

1755
02:10:33,770 --> 02:10:35,429
first speaker. Please state your name and you have five

1756
02:10:35,469 --> 02:10:40,643
minutes. Good evening. My name is Susanna Cliff Youngling. I

1757
02:10:40,643 --> 02:10:46,470
live on 28 almo streets. So I'm not. Susanne Cliff

1758
02:10:46,510 --> 02:10:50,950
Jüngling. I live on unmac burney park. So I want

1759
02:10:50,950 --> 02:10:52,630
to kind of point out that I'm not living in

1760
02:10:52,670 --> 02:10:57,190
the anode building. Like I'm just a concerned resident altogether.

1761
02:10:57,190 --> 02:11:00,950
And I certainly do live downtown. And I spent a

1762
02:11:00,950 --> 02:11:04,230
lot of my time downtown, whether that's shopping or for

1763
02:11:04,251 --> 02:11:08,630
leisure time. Um, so I always find that important to

1764
02:11:08,670 --> 02:11:12,150
note that it isn't just the immediate residence that are

1765
02:11:12,150 --> 02:11:16,070
impacted on development such as this. But it is the

1766
02:11:16,411 --> 02:11:18,710
wider community. And we do have a right to also

1767
02:11:18,750 --> 02:11:21,350
kind of say that we will be impacted because every

1768
02:11:21,350 --> 02:11:24,470
time I come downtown, I will be impacted. But actually

1769
02:11:25,051 --> 02:11:29,350
I'm already impacted by these high rises. I live on

1770
02:11:29,371 --> 02:11:34,230
MacBony Park and my bedroom window. I can see the

1771
02:11:34,651 --> 02:11:37,810
tower that is at the end of Queen Street, the

1772
02:11:37,810 --> 02:11:41,830
homestead or high rise building. It is in plain sight

1773
02:11:42,651 --> 02:11:46,470
all the time. So we are all impacted and it

1774
02:11:46,491 --> 02:11:51,590
has an effect on what our city looks like, feels

1775
02:11:51,590 --> 02:11:54,070
like how we act in it. How we can enjoy

1776
02:11:54,091 --> 02:11:57,510
it. And I know that this isn't just for the

1777
02:11:57,510 --> 02:12:00,070
developer question or for city staff. And I don't know

1778
02:12:00,070 --> 02:12:03,590
how otherwise to articulate it. But I do really think

1779
02:12:03,611 --> 02:12:06,390
that a couple of or a few speakers have already

1780
02:12:07,131 --> 02:12:11,190
spoken well about this. That it really is on city

1781
02:12:11,211 --> 02:12:17,190
staff and our elected councillors to really uphold what is

1782
02:12:17,371 --> 02:12:20,390
right for the city. Um, I think questions have been

1783
02:12:21,051 --> 02:12:26,390
mentioned about, you know, if this development could be different

1784
02:12:26,491 --> 02:12:29,190
anyway, I just want to make the point. I understand

1785
02:12:29,291 --> 02:12:32,630
that this development is economically feasible or you wouldn't be

1786
02:12:32,811 --> 02:12:36,550
proposing it. But that's really irrelevant to me because I

1787
02:12:36,550 --> 02:12:39,590
don't care if it's profitable or not, right? Um, so

1788
02:12:40,011 --> 02:12:42,710
it obviously it's the developer who needs to have it

1789
02:12:42,710 --> 02:12:46,390
profitable. But for the city to consider it is it

1790
02:12:46,411 --> 02:12:52,895
right for us. And there are other profitable proposals that

1791
02:12:52,916 --> 02:12:57,615
would fall within the guidelines and would not require this

1792
02:12:57,636 --> 02:13:01,535
kind of meeting and these exceptions to be made. So,

1793
02:13:01,535 --> 02:13:05,215
um, I'd like to ask the developer had been asked

1794
02:13:05,236 --> 02:13:10,015
about, you know, what data they're using to justify this

1795
02:13:10,015 --> 02:13:13,178
kind of development. And as I said, like I agree

1796
02:13:13,178 --> 02:13:16,538
that you probably have your data. I'd ask staff to

1797
02:13:16,719 --> 02:13:23,578
also collect independent data. Is this really necessary? Is this

1798
02:13:23,618 --> 02:13:27,498
development necessary for the city? Like I think we've already

1799
02:13:27,519 --> 02:13:32,378
seen some, uh, data that shows that, um, we haven't

1800
02:13:32,719 --> 02:13:37,338
kneel over supply of units. And it's not that we

1801
02:13:37,338 --> 02:13:41,018
need more units. So we don't need all this development.

1802
02:13:41,018 --> 02:13:42,778
Um, what is it that would be right for us?

1803
02:13:42,778 --> 02:13:45,498
And I think you've heard tonight from people who've spoken

1804
02:13:45,839 --> 02:13:49,098
much better than I can articulate this. That we do

1805
02:13:49,138 --> 02:13:52,138
not really want this. We want something else. We want

1806
02:13:52,178 --> 02:13:56,458
better. I really don't need to see another high rise

1807
02:13:56,458 --> 02:14:00,298
building. Most likely just glass and steel. There is no

1808
02:14:01,119 --> 02:14:06,458
environmental kind of, um, discussion here of how environmentally friendly

1809
02:14:06,719 --> 02:14:11,498
and supportive of climate change of countering your climate impact

1810
02:14:12,399 --> 02:14:14,698
this development is. There are no green walls. There is

1811
02:14:14,698 --> 02:14:18,298
nothing. There is nothing there. So why would we want

1812
02:14:18,298 --> 02:14:20,458
to, why would we want to agree to something like

1813
02:14:20,458 --> 02:14:23,318
that? Anyway, so those are some of my comments. And

1814
02:14:23,318 --> 02:14:27,018
again, I'd like to, for city staff to clearly kind

1815
02:14:27,018 --> 02:14:33,418
of figure out data driven, is this necessary? Do we

1816
02:14:33,418 --> 02:14:35,338
need these units? Do we need them there? Do we

1817
02:14:35,338 --> 02:14:37,718
want them there? Is this the best traveller city? And

1818
02:14:37,999 --> 02:14:41,498
affordability is what we need, not more units. Thank you.

1819
02:14:42,302 --> 02:14:45,269
Thank you. We'll go to our next speaker. Just another

1820
02:14:45,269 --> 02:14:46,949
reminder. If you're in the room and would like to

1821
02:14:46,949 --> 02:14:48,869
speak, please come and take one of the chairs or

1822
02:14:48,869 --> 02:14:52,069
if you're online on Zoom, please raise your virtual hand.

1823
02:14:52,069 --> 02:14:53,909
Thank you. Um, please state your name and your five

1824
02:14:53,909 --> 02:14:59,469
minutes. Thank you. My name is Jill. Jill Bryant. And

1825
02:14:59,469 --> 02:15:04,689
I'm about six minutes on foot from this proposed development.

1826
02:15:08,377 --> 02:15:10,996
I wasn't really planning to speak tonight, but I feel

1827
02:15:11,177 --> 02:15:13,876
that I just want to say that I agree with

1828
02:15:13,977 --> 02:15:18,836
everyone who feels that the twin towers are incompatible. I

1829
02:15:18,937 --> 02:15:23,556
did write a letter. I'm very concerned about the impact

1830
02:15:23,657 --> 02:15:30,714
on what I thought was the limestone city. Do we

1831
02:15:30,714 --> 02:15:34,394
still use that when we talk about Kingston? I've lived

1832
02:15:34,415 --> 02:15:38,670
here almost 18 years. And that was certainly something that

1833
02:15:39,411 --> 02:15:43,790
really got me. Like I felt that in my heart

1834
02:15:44,611 --> 02:15:50,270
because I grew up in Elora, Ontario. My father still

1835
02:15:50,291 --> 02:15:54,471
lived there. And he does tours in Allura. It's a

1836
02:15:54,511 --> 02:15:57,891
very historic limestone city as well. It's not, it's not

1837
02:15:58,012 --> 02:16:01,511
city. It's a small village. But, um, I hope this

1838
02:16:01,772 --> 02:16:04,791
isn't too off topic just to mention that the allura

1839
02:16:04,812 --> 02:16:10,691
mill has had massive developments. And it's really ruined. The

1840
02:16:10,691 --> 02:16:14,231
heart of the village in the opinion of many people.

1841
02:16:14,271 --> 02:16:17,511
I fear that the same thing will happen in Kingston

1842
02:16:17,772 --> 02:16:22,471
and is happening now. And these things honestly keep me

1843
02:16:22,511 --> 02:16:27,431
up at night. Councillor Ridge knows from another development proposal

1844
02:16:27,532 --> 02:16:33,571
very close to my house. These things affect people. And

1845
02:16:33,612 --> 02:16:37,351
I am, I feel so much for the people in

1846
02:16:37,372 --> 02:16:42,968
Annalene and they have a very hard year ahead. I

1847
02:16:42,989 --> 02:16:46,388
know what it's like. And it is not fun. And

1848
02:16:46,429 --> 02:16:49,688
I don't know why these proposals even get to this

1849
02:16:50,029 --> 02:16:53,368
early stage here where we all have to get stressed

1850
02:16:53,389 --> 02:16:58,305
out and worried. And lose sleep over things that are

1851
02:16:58,345 --> 02:17:04,305
so fundamentally against the official plan. Like what? What is

1852
02:17:04,345 --> 02:17:10,536
with that. Um, you look around at the streets now.

1853
02:17:10,536 --> 02:17:13,896
And I see that massive tower from way, way far

1854
02:17:13,936 --> 02:17:19,678
away. And it all makes me very sad. Um, so

1855
02:17:20,019 --> 02:17:23,118
the haste in which the city is considering these high

1856
02:17:23,219 --> 02:17:28,638
rise proposals and pushing them through is a dizzying kind

1857
02:17:28,638 --> 02:17:32,718
of pace. We need to slow down. It's, it's ugly

1858
02:17:33,299 --> 02:17:36,078
and we're losing the history of the city and what

1859
02:17:36,118 --> 02:17:40,584
makes it unique. What I would actually like to see,

1860
02:17:40,584 --> 02:17:43,224
and I kindly request is that you have the chief

1861
02:17:43,725 --> 02:17:47,784
electoral officer at a referendum question to the ballot at

1862
02:17:47,824 --> 02:17:53,031
October's Municipal Election. My water. Are you in favor of

1863
02:17:53,132 --> 02:17:58,040
allowing buildings over eight stories in downtown Kingston. I think

1864
02:17:58,141 --> 02:18:01,160
it's important that all Kingstonians can weigh in on this

1865
02:18:01,341 --> 02:18:05,160
question about what, and we decide what is right for

1866
02:18:05,181 --> 02:18:09,680
our city. And this kind of twin tower 25, 24

1867
02:18:10,621 --> 02:18:14,595
story development. Is not. I do not agree. And I

1868
02:18:14,595 --> 02:18:20,755
hope that Council, the planning committee and city planning will

1869
02:18:20,776 --> 02:18:26,116
say no. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I'll just address

1870
02:18:26,156 --> 02:18:29,236
that one question around a referendum and any questions that

1871
02:18:29,236 --> 02:18:31,476
are going to be referendum questions. There is a procedure

1872
02:18:31,497 --> 02:18:34,756
that goes that the city can go through. But we

1873
02:18:34,796 --> 02:18:37,236
are too late at the election season for that to

1874
02:18:37,276 --> 02:18:40,356
happen. So if people wanted one for next season, they

1875
02:18:40,356 --> 02:18:42,756
would need to have a conversation with the city clerks.

1876
02:18:42,756 --> 02:18:45,996
So I'll leave it there. Um, turning to online, I

1877
02:18:45,996 --> 02:18:48,436
don't think we have any other hands. We have one

1878
02:18:48,436 --> 02:18:50,276
more hand. Okay. And I'm not seeing anyone else in

1879
02:18:50,316 --> 02:18:57,088
person. Through you, Madam Chair, I'll recognise Kevin Caverly. Hi

1880
02:18:57,109 --> 02:18:59,088
there. Please state your name and you have five minutes.

1881
02:19:00,621 --> 02:19:05,142
My name is Kevin Caverly. I live in an 1841

1882
02:19:05,563 --> 02:19:13,222
Stonehouse nearly directly across from the proposed location. Um, and

1883
02:19:14,203 --> 02:19:17,782
I would like to acknowledge all of the concerns I

1884
02:19:17,822 --> 02:19:23,782
have heard tonight, uh, from other members around of the

1885
02:19:23,782 --> 02:19:29,295
community. Uh, however, I also believe it's very important, uh,

1886
02:19:29,416 --> 02:19:38,589
to progress, to grow. We need. Densification downtown. We need

1887
02:19:38,610 --> 02:19:44,749
more housing. There are certainly things I would love to

1888
02:19:44,850 --> 02:19:49,698
tweak about this, add some more green spaces. Maybe a

1889
02:19:49,719 --> 02:19:54,084
community space in this site while we're redeveloping it. Uh,

1890
02:19:54,185 --> 02:19:58,804
but I just want to go on record that not

1891
02:19:59,545 --> 02:20:04,724
everyone around here is against, uh, developing this site or

1892
02:20:04,745 --> 02:20:09,561
putting in dense housing. That's all I have to say.

1893
02:20:09,561 --> 02:20:13,321
Thanks. Okay. Thank you very much. Um, so we will

1894
02:20:13,742 --> 02:20:20,812
now turn to the applicant. Thank you. And through you,

1895
02:20:20,812 --> 02:20:26,172
Madam Chair, the first question related to, uh, parking and

1896
02:20:26,513 --> 02:20:31,837
what might be available. We haven't worked those details at

1897
02:20:31,837 --> 02:20:35,597
all, uh, at this point. Uh, I think it's very

1898
02:20:35,778 --> 02:20:39,037
interesting that there might be interest in some long -

1899
02:20:39,037 --> 02:20:43,357
term parking spaces available to the public in the area.

1900
02:20:43,357 --> 02:20:45,597
So that's something that certainly I can take back to

1901
02:20:45,637 --> 02:20:50,957
the owners, uh, for consideration, uh, that detail is something

1902
02:20:50,978 --> 02:20:54,557
that is quite a ways down the road from, from

1903
02:20:54,578 --> 02:20:57,277
sorting out, uh, in detail. That's something that would come

1904
02:20:57,378 --> 02:21:00,557
at the site plan, uh, stage, which is prior to

1905
02:21:01,218 --> 02:21:10,778
a building permit stage. There were, uh, there were comments

1906
02:21:10,959 --> 02:21:16,138
related to, um, like there's been many comments saying, you

1907
02:21:16,138 --> 02:21:22,879
know, this is against, uh, the official plan. And, you

1908
02:21:22,879 --> 02:21:24,899
know, it, it needs to be stated again that the

1909
02:21:24,920 --> 02:21:29,459
downtown in the official plan is where the city wants

1910
02:21:29,480 --> 02:21:33,059
to see the most mixed use and the most intensive

1911
02:21:33,240 --> 02:21:39,797
use. And then with that basic principle, there are, there

1912
02:21:39,818 --> 02:21:45,158
are guidelines to, to measure adverse impacts. And the studies

1913
02:21:45,198 --> 02:21:49,638
that are provided as part of this application attempt to

1914
02:21:49,739 --> 02:21:55,078
address those comments. That in turn would be reviewed by,

1915
02:21:55,099 --> 02:21:59,718
by city staff. And I can't think of an application

1916
02:21:59,758 --> 02:22:02,998
that has not had some comments from city staff that

1917
02:22:03,499 --> 02:22:06,838
require addressing. So that's kind of the next stage of

1918
02:22:06,878 --> 02:22:11,318
this process is, is staff will be evaluating our application

1919
02:22:12,299 --> 02:22:16,758
against the official plan and against other guidelines. And against

1920
02:22:16,798 --> 02:22:20,598
the comments that have been said tonight. And then that's

1921
02:22:20,598 --> 02:22:24,358
the next phase is we'll receive a consolidated package from

1922
02:22:24,779 --> 02:22:30,678
staff that we have to address before. And sometimes that

1923
02:22:30,718 --> 02:22:33,718
goes back and forth a few times, two, three times.

1924
02:22:33,718 --> 02:22:37,718
Sometimes even five or six times until it reaches a

1925
02:22:37,718 --> 02:22:40,718
point where staff were able to make some kind of

1926
02:22:40,859 --> 02:22:45,958
a recommendation to the planning committee. And that recommendation might

1927
02:22:45,979 --> 02:22:48,678
be at that point that they're satisfied. It might be

1928
02:22:49,019 --> 02:22:52,758
to change it. Uh, and then in turn, this planning

1929
02:22:52,798 --> 02:22:56,726
committee will make a recommendation to council. So I say

1930
02:22:56,766 --> 02:23:01,126
that just from the standpoint that, that we are here

1931
02:23:01,227 --> 02:23:05,366
to hear the comments. And we are taking them down.

1932
02:23:05,366 --> 02:23:07,766
And I know staff are here to do the same.

1933
02:23:07,766 --> 02:23:10,566
You know, I remain of the opinion that this application

1934
02:23:10,667 --> 02:23:15,606
is in compliance with the official plan. And we'll continue

1935
02:23:15,627 --> 02:23:20,066
to work with staff as technical comments come forward. Uh,

1936
02:23:20,107 --> 02:23:29,915
in that regard. There was comments about, uh,

1937
02:23:30,196 --> 02:23:33,535
like no sustainability, like being part of the project right

1938
02:23:33,575 --> 02:23:39,615
now. And, and that is another aspect that comes later

1939
02:23:39,956 --> 02:23:44,291
as the building goes into detailed design. Um, there are

1940
02:23:44,472 --> 02:23:48,371
sustainability elements that are just built directly into the building

1941
02:23:48,392 --> 02:23:51,251
code these days. And there are elements that are built

1942
02:23:51,272 --> 02:23:55,411
into the city's policy that will be part of every

1943
02:23:55,432 --> 02:23:58,371
building, whether tall or not, uh, in the city of

1944
02:23:58,552 --> 02:24:03,164
Kingston. There was a question of, do we need these,

1945
02:24:03,164 --> 02:24:05,995
do we need these here. And that goes back to

1946
02:24:05,995 --> 02:24:10,875
that fundamental principle that, that downtown is where the city

1947
02:24:10,976 --> 02:24:15,195
wants to see the most intensification. So downtown is the

1948
02:24:15,216 --> 02:24:18,795
location where we do need and want and it's set

1949
02:24:18,896 --> 02:24:27,406
in policy where we want to see that growth. I

1950
02:24:27,446 --> 02:24:30,461
believe I've addressed the questions, Madam Chair. Thank you. I

1951
02:24:30,501 --> 02:24:32,461
have one more. It was kind of a comment kind

1952
02:24:32,461 --> 02:24:35,021
of a question, but it was regarding green BIM programs.

1953
02:24:35,021 --> 02:24:39,478
Um, is that something that the applicant could consider. Through

1954
02:24:39,478 --> 02:24:42,924
you, Madam Chair. Absolutely. You know, I can assure you

1955
02:24:42,924 --> 02:24:45,884
that no owner of a building wants a smelly garbage

1956
02:24:45,905 --> 02:24:50,844
room either. And, uh, with having closed in service, private

1957
02:24:50,844 --> 02:24:53,724
service, it just makes it easier to have recycling green

1958
02:24:53,764 --> 02:24:57,164
bin and all the various programs. Thank you. Thank you.

1959
02:24:57,164 --> 02:25:00,364
And one other question that was asked is around data

1960
02:25:01,105 --> 02:25:03,964
and, um, could the applicant please explain what data is

1961
02:25:04,004 --> 02:25:07,164
being used to justify this development? If you have that

1962
02:25:07,345 --> 02:25:11,489
information available right now. Through you, Madam Chair, I don't

1963
02:25:11,529 --> 02:25:13,649
have like a specific document that I can roll out

1964
02:25:13,670 --> 02:25:16,849
that says here's like all of our, our marketing data

1965
02:25:17,110 --> 02:25:21,229
in terms of how, how the site, uh, works. Um,

1966
02:25:21,229 --> 02:25:25,649
but working with, with groups like The BIA working directly

1967
02:25:25,689 --> 02:25:29,729
with the businesses, uh, being aware of the other projects

1968
02:25:29,769 --> 02:25:33,649
that are, uh, you know, either under construction or already

1969
02:25:33,670 --> 02:25:39,569
built, that data combined is what is what dictates what

1970
02:25:39,609 --> 02:25:41,889
we bring forward in terms of, you know, why we're

1971
02:25:41,990 --> 02:25:45,809
proposing mostly one bedrooms, you know, whereas I've had other

1972
02:25:45,849 --> 02:25:50,849
projects where we're proposing mostly two bedrooms. It just varies.

1973
02:25:50,849 --> 02:25:53,969
And at the time of construction, those evaluations will be

1974
02:25:54,009 --> 02:25:57,089
running again to ensure that the unit mix is appropriate.

1975
02:25:59,626 --> 02:26:02,405
Thank you. Thank you. Um, there was also a question.

1976
02:26:02,405 --> 02:26:05,045
This one's directed towards staff. I believe it was a

1977
02:26:05,045 --> 02:26:09,845
question around, uh, why proposals come to this early stage,

1978
02:26:09,845 --> 02:26:12,405
um, it can be distressing for residents. And so why

1979
02:26:12,445 --> 02:26:14,725
are we having meetings like this before any decisions are

1980
02:26:14,725 --> 02:26:20,812
being made? Thanks. And through you. It's precisely why we're

1981
02:26:20,852 --> 02:26:23,852
having this meeting at this early stage is to allow

1982
02:26:24,193 --> 02:26:28,332
members of the public and planning committee to consider the

1983
02:26:28,353 --> 02:26:32,652
early stages of an application. When an application is submitted

1984
02:26:32,673 --> 02:26:35,372
to the city and it's deemed complete under the Planning

1985
02:26:35,412 --> 02:26:38,892
Act, especially I'll use the zoning bylaw amendment as an

1986
02:26:38,913 --> 02:26:42,892
example here. The initial first 90 days is barred from

1987
02:26:42,993 --> 02:26:46,812
any sort of appeal. So member, sorry, the applicant cannot

1988
02:26:46,852 --> 02:26:49,292
appeal an application within the first 90 days of it

1989
02:26:49,292 --> 02:26:52,332
being considered by the municipality, after which they have the

1990
02:26:52,372 --> 02:26:55,032
ability to appeal for non - decision. So within the

1991
02:26:55,032 --> 02:26:58,732
first 90 days of an application, during these barred windows,

1992
02:26:58,732 --> 02:27:02,252
we always look to hold a community meeting for the

1993
02:27:02,292 --> 02:27:05,912
purpose of eliciting public and committee feedback so we can

1994
02:27:05,912 --> 02:27:10,012
get that early sense from what is being said about

1995
02:27:10,193 --> 02:27:13,732
an application for ourselves, but also for the applicant. We

1996
02:27:13,732 --> 02:27:17,292
also aim to get our public, sorry, our technical review

1997
02:27:17,393 --> 02:27:20,652
comments out during this window as well. That way we

1998
02:27:20,692 --> 02:27:24,332
have a complete understanding about where the city's position lies

1999
02:27:25,233 --> 02:27:28,732
with an application. So that's why when an application is

2000
02:27:28,753 --> 02:27:32,732
submitted, we are statutorily required to review it. If it's

2001
02:27:32,833 --> 02:27:35,372
a team to complete or complete under the planning act.

2002
02:27:35,372 --> 02:27:37,692
So we initiate the process by which we are here

2003
02:27:37,793 --> 02:27:41,052
tonight. So this application was deemed complete for the purposes

2004
02:27:41,052 --> 02:27:44,492
of the planning act, which initiated our timeline. So that's

2005
02:27:44,492 --> 02:27:46,652
when the notice went out. That's when the technical review

2006
02:27:46,673 --> 02:27:50,092
begins. And that's when we begin to plot a course

2007
02:27:50,193 --> 02:27:53,212
to bring this application to planning committee. So there is

2008
02:27:53,313 --> 02:27:56,492
a very prescribed and technical process that we're working with

2009
02:27:56,673 --> 02:28:01,212
in order to process these applications completely and bring forward

2010
02:28:01,953 --> 02:28:07,240
it for public consideration. Thank you very much. And one

2011
02:28:07,280 --> 02:28:09,720
other question that I think is directed at staff as

2012
02:28:09,720 --> 02:28:13,640
well around the data question, um, so is data considered

2013
02:28:13,821 --> 02:28:16,600
and staff's recommendations. I think that's a relevant question related

2014
02:28:16,640 --> 02:28:20,381
to this. And through you chair. I guess that's more

2015
02:28:20,421 --> 02:28:24,301
of a complicated question for staff to answer because we're

2016
02:28:24,301 --> 02:28:29,181
not necessarily driven by the data of economics associated with

2017
02:28:29,362 --> 02:28:33,421
a property, but we do have a reflected need from

2018
02:28:33,421 --> 02:28:36,781
the Mayor's Task Force on housing to support our population

2019
02:28:36,802 --> 02:28:38,941
growth and the number of units that we're looking for

2020
02:28:38,962 --> 02:28:42,221
across the city in various types. We also have a

2021
02:28:42,402 --> 02:28:46,781
provincial requirement to build 800 new dwelling units every year

2022
02:28:47,522 --> 02:28:52,221
as a minimum. And we have our latest population data

2023
02:28:52,322 --> 02:28:55,341
that we're working with that plots out, an average review

2024
02:28:55,442 --> 02:28:59,561
for new development across the city up until 2051, but

2025
02:28:59,561 --> 02:29:02,061
also if we look back, you know, the official plan

2026
02:29:02,402 --> 02:29:05,261
that's been based on a population model that we're working

2027
02:29:05,362 --> 02:29:08,701
towards. So when we're looking at new development applications, we're

2028
02:29:08,802 --> 02:29:12,381
not necessarily saying, well, do we need X number of

2029
02:29:12,402 --> 02:29:15,181
units at this one location? We're taking a broad city

2030
02:29:15,362 --> 02:29:17,261
- wide objective and looking at, okay, well, how are

2031
02:29:17,261 --> 02:29:19,821
we facilitating the housing and the housing options that we

2032
02:29:19,821 --> 02:29:23,101
need across the city in order to fulfill both the

2033
02:29:23,202 --> 02:29:27,241
complete communities aspect, the housing needs continuum. And then the

2034
02:29:27,241 --> 02:29:29,421
general livability of the city. And how are all these

2035
02:29:29,442 --> 02:29:32,941
pieces fitting together? So it's, it's challenging to look at

2036
02:29:33,042 --> 02:29:36,221
one development and say, you know, this is what we're

2037
02:29:36,261 --> 02:29:38,701
pinning our hopes and dreams on for the year for

2038
02:29:38,722 --> 02:29:41,821
new development when really it's a housing continuum in spectrum

2039
02:29:41,861 --> 02:29:45,341
across the city. So that's why, um, you know, it's

2040
02:29:45,341 --> 02:29:48,141
not necessarily the staff consideration for the economics of one

2041
02:29:48,141 --> 02:29:51,501
property, but it's looking at what is appropriate development across

2042
02:29:51,602 --> 02:29:53,821
the city. And that includes form. So when we're looking

2043
02:29:53,861 --> 02:29:57,901
at an application, it's not necessarily pinned upon, do we

2044
02:29:57,901 --> 02:30:00,361
need this application that's here? We're looking at it, you

2045
02:30:00,361 --> 02:30:02,581
know, does it fit the objectives of the city? Is

2046
02:30:02,581 --> 02:30:06,141
it appropriate for the context in which it's being provided?

2047
02:30:06,141 --> 02:30:07,661
And is it compatible in all the other tests of

2048
02:30:07,661 --> 02:30:11,341
the official plan to build the housing inventory that will

2049
02:30:11,341 --> 02:30:13,341
be built out in the longterm that's appropriate for the

2050
02:30:13,381 --> 02:30:18,496
city. Okay, thank you very much. Okay, we are moving

2051
02:30:18,517 --> 02:30:20,256
into the next phase of this meeting, which is to

2052
02:30:20,256 --> 02:30:22,896
look at committee members. So are there any questions from

2053
02:30:23,077 --> 02:30:30,536
committee members. Councillor Osanic. Thank you, Madam Chair. And through

2054
02:30:30,536 --> 02:30:34,056
you, I do have a few questions. Um, we heard

2055
02:30:34,397 --> 02:30:37,816
the resident, or sorry, the resident, we heard, um, a

2056
02:30:37,816 --> 02:30:41,416
member of the public here tonight who talked about fire

2057
02:30:41,456 --> 02:30:44,056
safety. And I don't know what this is for the

2058
02:30:44,096 --> 02:30:47,736
applicant or for staff, but I've heard it even at

2059
02:30:47,736 --> 02:30:52,136
the election door of people of like even fire staff

2060
02:30:52,557 --> 02:30:56,136
saying about the latter truck. We need another ladder truck

2061
02:30:56,136 --> 02:30:59,176
in the city for all the condos that are there

2062
02:31:00,397 --> 02:31:04,456
that we have built. And so if there's a fire

2063
02:31:04,717 --> 02:31:09,976
in these two 24 story buildings, um, like how, what

2064
02:31:10,157 --> 02:31:16,056
happens? What happens? And do we need an aerial truck?

2065
02:31:16,056 --> 02:31:18,136
Like I believe we need an area truck to get

2066
02:31:18,136 --> 02:31:22,296
there. And then they put the fire hose. Like I

2067
02:31:22,296 --> 02:31:24,896
think our aerial truck, as I asked this before, is

2068
02:31:24,896 --> 02:31:28,136
only for 12 stories. And then the rest is they

2069
02:31:28,136 --> 02:31:31,876
just shoot the, the hose up at the top, um,

2070
02:31:32,157 --> 02:31:34,456
yeah, my dad who lives in a high rise didn't

2071
02:31:34,477 --> 02:31:38,136
like that answer very much. So anyway, what happens in

2072
02:31:38,157 --> 02:31:48,109
a fire. This

2073
02:31:48,109 --> 02:31:51,190
building would be fully sprinklered. And it has a standpipe

2074
02:31:51,190 --> 02:31:53,030
system in it. So I think these buildings are intended

2075
02:31:53,070 --> 02:31:55,750
to be fires on the upper floors are intended to

2076
02:31:55,931 --> 02:32:01,633
be fought from within the building. Um, you're not going

2077
02:32:01,633 --> 02:32:03,313
to get a ladder truck that's going to extend to

2078
02:32:03,313 --> 02:32:06,578
the roof of this building. Nor many other buildings had

2079
02:32:06,578 --> 02:32:10,217
already exist in the city. All right. Uh, three, um,

2080
02:32:10,338 --> 02:32:14,077
Madam Chair. So that just means the firefighters run up

2081
02:32:14,098 --> 02:32:18,762
the staircase to whatever floor. Has the fire. Yeah. They

2082
02:32:18,762 --> 02:32:22,682
have a, uh, dedicated firefighters elevator and a thing called

2083
02:32:22,682 --> 02:32:28,522
the CACF room in the lobby that they operate from

2084
02:32:29,663 --> 02:32:32,042
when the fire. They can direct tenants in the building.

2085
02:32:32,682 --> 02:32:34,901
What to do from that room. There are, there are

2086
02:32:34,941 --> 02:32:38,576
provisions. They're building code provisions. That take into account billings

2087
02:32:38,616 --> 02:32:40,816
as size. Assuming that you're not going to be able

2088
02:32:40,816 --> 02:32:43,565
to get a ladder up that high. Okay. Thank you

2089
02:32:43,586 --> 02:32:47,485
for that. Um, since high rises of these numbers, stories

2090
02:32:47,586 --> 02:32:50,205
is new to us. Um, I don't think we've heard

2091
02:32:50,226 --> 02:32:53,245
that answer before, but I'm sure everyone in Toronto would

2092
02:32:53,285 --> 02:32:57,245
know about that. So thank you. Um, the other point

2093
02:32:57,346 --> 02:32:59,885
we had from someone in the public, I think the

2094
02:32:59,885 --> 02:33:05,547
same person tonight raised as transit. So what does staff

2095
02:33:05,968 --> 02:33:11,320
say about transit. It was that our street's are already

2096
02:33:11,741 --> 02:33:18,120
really busy and so many buses. So if this is

2097
02:33:18,141 --> 02:33:22,200
going to be, um, not many parking spots, you know,

2098
02:33:22,541 --> 02:33:28,200
um, how did people can transit take these extra 500

2099
02:33:28,240 --> 02:33:30,880
people that will be living in these two apartments? I

2100
02:33:30,880 --> 02:33:33,403
guess that was the point. Mr. Bar. And I think

2101
02:33:33,403 --> 02:33:35,243
it had to do with the narrowness of the roads

2102
02:33:35,283 --> 02:33:39,335
as well. Mr. Bar. Thanks. And through your chair, we

2103
02:33:39,356 --> 02:33:42,135
do have a traffic impact study that's been submitted and

2104
02:33:42,135 --> 02:33:45,215
supportive this application. And the application is under reviewed by

2105
02:33:45,215 --> 02:33:49,495
transportation services, which does include a review by Kingston Transit.

2106
02:33:49,495 --> 02:33:52,695
We don't have the full totality of those comments yet,

2107
02:33:52,695 --> 02:33:55,575
but it is a consideration councillor that we are looking

2108
02:33:55,676 --> 02:34:00,008
into as part of this application. All right. Thank you.

2109
02:34:00,008 --> 02:34:04,488
Um, my next question is, are there any affordable housing

2110
02:34:04,528 --> 02:34:09,468
units going to be built in these two buildings. Mr.

2111
02:34:09,468 --> 02:34:13,724
Keane. Through you, Madam Chair, we haven't got that far

2112
02:34:13,825 --> 02:34:16,904
down the line in terms of our, our design. But

2113
02:34:16,904 --> 02:34:19,724
I would certainly expect just of a building of this

2114
02:34:19,764 --> 02:34:22,204
nature. There will be some affordable units. All I can

2115
02:34:22,204 --> 02:34:24,444
say at this point is the commitment's rental, uh, right

2116
02:34:24,484 --> 02:34:28,044
now, but we don't really our unit breakdown and our

2117
02:34:28,044 --> 02:34:30,444
unit makeup will be something we work out with staff

2118
02:34:30,865 --> 02:34:35,379
and with council. Thank you. Um, it seems that a

2119
02:34:35,379 --> 02:34:38,819
lot of the apartments that have been built recently and

2120
02:34:38,840 --> 02:34:41,859
it's great. We've had apartments being built, but they seem

2121
02:34:41,899 --> 02:34:47,139
to be serving the luxury housing market. Like the rents

2122
02:34:47,139 --> 02:34:49,699
are like 3, 000 dollars a month for a two

2123
02:34:49,699 --> 02:34:53,779
bedroom. And since you haven't come down to like that

2124
02:34:53,960 --> 02:34:57,779
level yet, I think it would be really appreciated with

2125
02:34:58,040 --> 02:35:02,659
affordability in mind to make these more mid - market,

2126
02:35:02,659 --> 02:35:06,979
you know, maybe not as much jazz and pizzazz, but,

2127
02:35:06,979 --> 02:35:10,259
you know, like more in the 2, 100, 2, 500

2128
02:35:10,440 --> 02:35:16,579
dollar range just because people can't afford 36, 000 dollars

2129
02:35:17,160 --> 02:35:20,739
if your husband and wife a year for your rent.

2130
02:35:20,739 --> 02:35:23,999
Or if your fiancees and about to get married, you

2131
02:35:23,999 --> 02:35:26,499
have to save for a down payment to then graduate

2132
02:35:26,680 --> 02:35:31,219
to the housing market from apartments. So if you could

2133
02:35:31,259 --> 02:35:35,221
keep that in mind, is that possible. Three of you,

2134
02:35:35,221 --> 02:35:39,201
Madam Chair. Yes. Thank you. I've written it down. And

2135
02:35:39,201 --> 02:35:41,781
certainly we'll be take that back to my client. Thank

2136
02:35:41,781 --> 02:35:45,861
you. Great. Thank you. And, um, I think just the

2137
02:35:45,861 --> 02:35:47,121
last thing I want to raise. I don't know how

2138
02:35:47,121 --> 02:35:49,621
to make it into a question, but I think you've

2139
02:35:49,642 --> 02:35:55,221
seen that like 24 stories is too high. And so,

2140
02:35:55,221 --> 02:35:59,221
um, I'm hoping that you could give consideration for lowering

2141
02:35:59,722 --> 02:36:04,131
the number of floors in the buildings. Thank you. Thank

2142
02:36:04,131 --> 02:36:11,848
you. Next up, deputy mayor Usterhoff. Yes. Good evening, Madam

2143
02:36:11,848 --> 02:36:15,814
Chair. Can you hear me well enough. We can. Okay.

2144
02:36:15,854 --> 02:36:19,734
Great. Thanks very much. Um, yeah, I want to say

2145
02:36:19,755 --> 02:36:22,434
have a few comments and, uh, questions as well. And

2146
02:36:22,475 --> 02:36:26,054
I really, really appreciate, let me see my colleague. It's

2147
02:36:26,054 --> 02:36:27,974
the first time there by speaking, but also all of

2148
02:36:27,974 --> 02:36:33,200
the, um, the public, uh, that's amazing. Amazing input and

2149
02:36:33,200 --> 02:36:37,200
exactly why we have these meetings. So, um, I have

2150
02:36:37,200 --> 02:36:39,600
a lot I wrote down as I've been listening to

2151
02:36:40,341 --> 02:36:42,220
and some of it's been answered. So I might, um,

2152
02:36:42,661 --> 02:36:45,760
but, um, but I wanted to ask about the infrastructure.

2153
02:36:45,760 --> 02:36:47,600
We hear a lot about it. And I don't, I

2154
02:36:47,621 --> 02:36:50,720
know a developer is not going to build until they

2155
02:36:50,760 --> 02:36:55,200
know they have enough water. They have enough, uh, electricity

2156
02:36:55,701 --> 02:36:59,680
and energy required for this building, but, um, is that,

2157
02:36:59,680 --> 02:37:02,000
uh, I must just ask it quickly is that a

2158
02:37:02,040 --> 02:37:04,800
concern. Is that going to delay the project? Is there

2159
02:37:04,800 --> 02:37:10,566
enough power for this type of building. Mr. Bar. Thanks.

2160
02:37:10,566 --> 02:37:12,326
And through you chair, that is part of the technical

2161
02:37:12,347 --> 02:37:14,646
review that's ongoing by city staff right now is looking

2162
02:37:14,686 --> 02:37:16,806
at all those key servicing components. I know we've heard

2163
02:37:16,846 --> 02:37:20,086
about stormwater tonight, but we're also reviewing for water, wastewater

2164
02:37:20,107 --> 02:37:23,766
and electricity. So any future staff recommendation that would be

2165
02:37:23,806 --> 02:37:26,726
brought forward would be in full consideration of the city's

2166
02:37:26,766 --> 02:37:30,006
ability to service this development. And in addition to that,

2167
02:37:30,006 --> 02:37:33,766
we do have the municipal servicing allocation policies. So with

2168
02:37:34,187 --> 02:37:37,686
the zoning being approved, it doesn't necessarily guarantee them servicing

2169
02:37:37,787 --> 02:37:40,726
until they move forward with a more detailed application and

2170
02:37:40,726 --> 02:37:45,112
obtain their municipal servicing allocation from the city. Deputy Mayor

2171
02:37:45,152 --> 02:37:49,285
Osterhoff. Yeah, thank you Madam Chair. That's helpful for everyone

2172
02:37:49,325 --> 02:37:53,955
to know. That is that's the procedure. And that's great.

2173
02:37:54,056 --> 02:37:56,275
I, there are things I really liked about this development.

2174
02:37:56,275 --> 02:38:00,755
And it's not surprising. This, this particular, um, the architecture,

2175
02:38:00,755 --> 02:38:04,975
um, and is everything is top notch actually, where, uh,

2176
02:38:04,975 --> 02:38:07,795
where I want to give great credit to that when

2177
02:38:07,795 --> 02:38:11,475
we see things like the framing of the city hall,

2178
02:38:11,475 --> 02:38:15,795
this development is intended to enhance the city and the

2179
02:38:15,795 --> 02:38:19,235
downtown. And I see it. And maybe I think many,

2180
02:38:19,275 --> 02:38:22,435
many others also see that I want to acknowledge that.

2181
02:38:22,435 --> 02:38:26,515
Um, I think it's quite, quite pleasing. And, um, debating

2182
02:38:26,555 --> 02:38:31,635
the height is something that I also will wonder about.

2183
02:38:31,635 --> 02:38:34,995
And, um, I look forward to that discussion. Um, so,

2184
02:38:34,995 --> 02:38:40,355
um, when I wrote, uh. So I'm acknowledged that I

2185
02:38:40,355 --> 02:38:43,475
do think, uh, I'm glad to know it's flexible on

2186
02:38:43,515 --> 02:38:47,155
the layouts of the units. I hope, and I don't

2187
02:38:47,155 --> 02:38:49,635
know of the data on three bedroom units, but I

2188
02:38:49,675 --> 02:38:53,235
do believe that there could be more needed there. I'm

2189
02:38:53,275 --> 02:38:55,875
pleased with the underground parking and the possibility of downtown

2190
02:38:56,616 --> 02:38:59,435
public use, both short term and long - term. I

2191
02:38:59,435 --> 02:39:03,835
hope that, uh, downtown really needs it. Better parking. I

2192
02:39:03,835 --> 02:39:08,275
really appreciated the comments from, um, Mary Jo, uh, thought

2193
02:39:08,275 --> 02:39:11,695
that was, uh, very, very well done. Um, and, um,

2194
02:39:12,056 --> 02:39:16,035
the scope of living downtime, the perspective of living downtown,

2195
02:39:16,035 --> 02:39:18,435
um, but I also appreciate those who are concerned about

2196
02:39:18,536 --> 02:39:23,797
it. Um, and the impact of shadowing. It's a pretty

2197
02:39:23,797 --> 02:39:27,797
big deal. Um, and so, um, I really, um, I

2198
02:39:27,797 --> 02:39:31,077
hope that I wanted to ask, did they already take

2199
02:39:31,338 --> 02:39:37,437
shadowing and consideration? And is there a way to, I

2200
02:39:37,437 --> 02:39:40,757
mean, the Anna Lane, I know exactly where it is,

2201
02:39:40,757 --> 02:39:46,837
uh, it has there any been any shadowing considerations in

2202
02:39:46,858 --> 02:39:53,051
the presentation that is given to us tonight. Mr. Keene.

2203
02:39:53,963 --> 02:39:56,662
Yes, through you, Madam Chair. Uh, as part of our

2204
02:39:56,763 --> 02:40:00,982
application, we've completed a complete shadow study, which is the

2205
02:40:02,523 --> 02:40:08,902
equinox and the solstice. And we've evaluated that study based

2206
02:40:08,902 --> 02:40:12,102
on the criteria that are provided in the official plan

2207
02:40:12,142 --> 02:40:16,582
that are established by the city. Uh, and it passes

2208
02:40:16,683 --> 02:40:21,942
that criteria. And by, by no means, you know, it

2209
02:40:22,203 --> 02:40:25,942
shadows Anne Lane. It has, it has a wave, like

2210
02:40:25,963 --> 02:40:28,502
which is weirder seeing as common with the downtown buildings

2211
02:40:28,763 --> 02:40:33,942
because of the orientation of the cities downtown. The shadows

2212
02:40:33,963 --> 02:40:36,062
move. So it doesn't, you know, at 8 a. m.

2213
02:40:36,523 --> 02:40:40,022
when the sun is first arising in, you know, in

2214
02:40:40,062 --> 02:40:43,702
March and in September, you have a long shadow. And

2215
02:40:43,702 --> 02:40:46,742
then by 9 a. m. it's short and it's moving.

2216
02:40:46,742 --> 02:40:48,822
And then by 10 a. m. it's shorter and it's

2217
02:40:48,822 --> 02:40:52,822
moving again. And that's just, just because of the orientation

2218
02:40:52,862 --> 02:40:56,582
of the streets, uh, in the downtown. So the shadows

2219
02:40:56,763 --> 02:41:02,022
don't stay on one location, uh, for a prolonged period.

2220
02:41:02,022 --> 02:41:04,582
They create like a wave, uh, is the way they

2221
02:41:04,683 --> 02:41:08,502
react in all of the times. And, uh, we'll look

2222
02:41:08,542 --> 02:41:12,262
forward to staff's input on their review of that report.

2223
02:41:16,380 --> 02:41:19,719
Yeah, thanks for that. I get that now after these

2224
02:41:19,759 --> 02:41:23,079
years. And I'll be interesting to see here if they're,

2225
02:41:23,079 --> 02:41:26,279
if there is more that can be done to limit,

2226
02:41:26,279 --> 02:41:30,759
uh, mitigate shadowing, it is, it is an incredibly legitimate

2227
02:41:30,860 --> 02:41:34,896
concern. And I look forward to that. So that's, um,

2228
02:41:36,537 --> 02:41:42,468
the stormwater is this building development. I mean, ultimately it

2229
02:41:42,468 --> 02:41:48,628
creates more displacement of water. So that's, that's the, the

2230
02:41:48,649 --> 02:41:51,508
risk, I guess stormwater management. It's a big deal again.

2231
02:41:51,689 --> 02:41:54,068
Flooding, I don't know about the flooding downtown. I haven't

2232
02:41:54,089 --> 02:41:57,908
seen that so much. So, um, and you write right

2233
02:41:57,908 --> 02:42:01,268
downtown. And is that, I guess, questions for the staff,

2234
02:42:01,268 --> 02:42:06,628
Madam Chair, um, is, is the stormwater is the city's

2235
02:42:06,668 --> 02:42:09,108
issue, right? They have we, we have to solve that

2236
02:42:09,209 --> 02:42:13,951
as well as the infrastructure against. Mr. Bar. Thanks. And

2237
02:42:13,951 --> 02:42:16,851
through you, Chair. Uh, yeah, stormwater is a city infrastructure

2238
02:42:16,952 --> 02:42:21,011
piece. And within the downtown area, uh, applicants are required

2239
02:42:21,032 --> 02:42:24,531
to submit a stormwater report that looks at reducing system

2240
02:42:24,952 --> 02:42:29,171
flows. So the properties have to reduce their outfall at

2241
02:42:29,171 --> 02:42:33,971
peak periods, uh, every new development is actually working as

2242
02:42:34,152 --> 02:42:36,451
a sponge to try and absorb more stormwater during those

2243
02:42:36,552 --> 02:42:39,011
events and eject less to the system. So it is

2244
02:42:39,112 --> 02:42:44,751
part of the consideration for balancing infrastructure development downtown. Deputy

2245
02:42:44,791 --> 02:42:48,911
Mayor. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just going

2246
02:42:48,911 --> 02:42:55,620
through my questions here. That was helpful. Um. Minister Parking

2247
02:42:55,721 --> 02:42:59,620
about that, I don't, uh, I just wanted to say

2248
02:42:59,620 --> 02:43:01,700
that I think that there's a lot to like about

2249
02:43:01,801 --> 02:43:06,340
this development. I don't see this as a destructive to

2250
02:43:06,380 --> 02:43:11,140
our downtown. Um, and, um, and I'm glad we clarify

2251
02:43:11,180 --> 02:43:14,260
that this is not an official plan amendment. The official

2252
02:43:14,361 --> 02:43:18,260
plan, uh, speaks to this and welcomes this type of

2253
02:43:18,441 --> 02:43:25,620
development in scale. And that'll be a big, um, conversation

2254
02:43:25,721 --> 02:43:30,614
to come. 30 seconds. Thank you. Uh, it's a, it's,

2255
02:43:30,614 --> 02:43:33,317
um, it's an attempt for the heritage part. Um, I

2256
02:43:33,418 --> 02:43:36,837
understand that. And it's, it's, it's, it's a often enough,

2257
02:43:36,837 --> 02:43:39,677
we don't have a lot to say about architecture. In

2258
02:43:39,677 --> 02:43:42,037
this case, we have a developer or an architect of

2259
02:43:42,077 --> 02:43:45,557
the second to none really who are, who are complementing

2260
02:43:45,597 --> 02:43:49,077
the cities. So, um, I look forward to further discussions.

2261
02:43:49,077 --> 02:43:52,977
Some madam chair and seeing what's best for us. And

2262
02:43:52,977 --> 02:43:57,153
thank you. One second to spare. Well done. Um, we'll

2263
02:43:57,153 --> 02:44:04,584
turn now to Councillor Shafes. Thank you. Um, I want

2264
02:44:04,584 --> 02:44:06,984
to start off by, there were comments about it. This

2265
02:44:07,005 --> 02:44:12,584
is needed. The number of apartment buildings. And one factor

2266
02:44:12,605 --> 02:44:14,984
was kind of used. See if we had enough supply.

2267
02:44:14,984 --> 02:44:18,662
It's called the occupancy rate. And a healthy rate is

2268
02:44:18,763 --> 02:44:24,051
three percent. And getting into some information from earlier. Uh,

2269
02:44:24,472 --> 02:44:30,051
as of October 25, downtown Occupy rate was two percent

2270
02:44:30,312 --> 02:44:33,011
for one bedrooms and 1. 9 percent for three bedrooms.

2271
02:44:33,770 --> 02:44:36,789
And in Kingston under the CMA, the rates were 2.

2272
02:44:36,810 --> 02:44:41,589
4 for one bedrooms and 1. 2 for three bedrooms.

2273
02:44:41,589 --> 02:44:46,149
And I know the applicant had mentioned provincial standards and

2274
02:44:46,149 --> 02:44:49,151
housing supply. But I'm going to go back to the

2275
02:44:49,191 --> 02:44:50,991
way it's sort of distributed now. I know you mentioned

2276
02:44:51,031 --> 02:44:56,431
that still early. But one bedrooms were at currently at

2277
02:44:56,471 --> 02:45:00,127
464 and three bedrooms at two. But according to these

2278
02:45:00,127 --> 02:45:03,967
numbers, will you be considering having a lot more three

2279
02:45:04,007 --> 02:45:10,834
bedroom units. Mr. Keene. Yes. Through you, Madam Chair, certainly

2280
02:45:10,834 --> 02:45:13,314
the hardest ones are the three bedrooms in a rental

2281
02:45:13,335 --> 02:45:18,514
scenario because rents are often similar to a house purchase,

2282
02:45:18,514 --> 02:45:22,514
uh, in Kingston. So do I think there'll be more

2283
02:45:22,695 --> 02:45:25,234
three bedrooms? Yes. I suspect there'd be more two better

2284
02:45:27,335 --> 02:45:33,474
than three bedrooms. But, uh, we also, we regularly propose

2285
02:45:33,575 --> 02:45:35,874
this kind of mix because this is the highest test

2286
02:45:35,914 --> 02:45:37,874
for amenity, right? Like you're not going to go with

2287
02:45:38,535 --> 02:45:43,474
more units. You've got to provide numbers of amenity like

2288
02:45:43,514 --> 02:45:47,314
10 square metres per unit. As I increase bedroom size

2289
02:45:47,354 --> 02:45:51,554
and have less units, my amenity decreases. So you want

2290
02:45:51,554 --> 02:45:55,714
to test these buildings with the smaller units to make

2291
02:45:55,714 --> 02:45:59,474
sure there is enough amenity in that case. So when

2292
02:45:59,514 --> 02:46:03,234
you decrease units later in the process by making larger,

2293
02:46:03,234 --> 02:46:06,034
better units, you're safe, so to speak, on those things

2294
02:46:06,295 --> 02:46:10,274
like parking and amenity, which are regulating factors in a

2295
02:46:10,274 --> 02:46:14,434
project like this. Um, but certainly we'll be looking at

2296
02:46:14,474 --> 02:46:20,194
that the entire makeup. Um, as the project moves forward,

2297
02:46:20,194 --> 02:46:24,232
um. I've had a few projects go the other way

2298
02:46:24,333 --> 02:46:28,472
where we proposed more bedrooms. And it actually went to

2299
02:46:28,512 --> 02:46:32,952
smaller units. I wouldn't foresee that here. Certainly, uh, could

2300
02:46:32,952 --> 02:46:36,472
be more two beds and more three beds. But it

2301
02:46:36,472 --> 02:46:40,552
is three bedrooms for every, not just city of Kingston,

2302
02:46:40,552 --> 02:46:43,352
like every city, a three bedroom unit is tough outside

2303
02:46:43,373 --> 02:46:48,632
of a student scenario. Um, because a family that needs

2304
02:46:48,672 --> 02:46:51,832
that three bedroom unit is starting to look toward a

2305
02:46:51,872 --> 02:46:55,592
house. So it's a challenging one to fulfill, not just

2306
02:46:55,632 --> 02:47:00,416
Kingston. That's like across the province. Hey, thank you. Uh,

2307
02:47:00,437 --> 02:47:04,176
I noticed in your report, your portion, it's stated that

2308
02:47:04,216 --> 02:47:07,356
the number of car sharing parking spaces were two. But

2309
02:47:07,397 --> 02:47:13,296
within the city exhibit A 1. 3E, it states the

2310
02:47:13,336 --> 02:47:18,065
minimum requirement is six. Is that going to change? So

2311
02:47:18,326 --> 02:47:20,625
through you, Madam Chair, with the number of units that

2312
02:47:20,625 --> 02:47:24,545
we're providing, the bylaw would require 12 and we're proposing

2313
02:47:24,806 --> 02:47:28,363
six. So if the spot that said too, then there's

2314
02:47:28,384 --> 02:47:32,918
an error in my report. Okay. Thank you for clarifying

2315
02:47:32,918 --> 02:47:37,538
that. I know, uh, few and Councillor Easterhoff mentioned, uh,

2316
02:47:37,739 --> 02:47:41,318
flooding. And it's been discussed here before, but flooding in

2317
02:47:41,318 --> 02:47:44,918
the downtown area and around the Ohhit building, uh, in

2318
02:47:44,958 --> 02:47:47,958
the past. I just wondering, will there be plans in

2319
02:47:47,998 --> 02:47:53,811
place to address this. Sorry through you, Madam Chair. Can

2320
02:47:53,811 --> 02:47:55,511
you repeat that? I was just writing a note about

2321
02:47:55,551 --> 02:48:00,871
that in regards to flooding. I know Mr. Bar, Director

2322
02:48:00,892 --> 02:48:06,551
Brier was discussing that basically any new residential units are

2323
02:48:06,572 --> 02:48:09,911
supposed to reduce the amount of flooding or water leaving

2324
02:48:09,932 --> 02:48:13,671
their properties. They're lots into other areas. So with, with

2325
02:48:13,852 --> 02:48:18,391
this issue, being partially city related, will your building have

2326
02:48:20,092 --> 02:48:23,351
mitigating factors to reduce the overflow of water leaving the

2327
02:48:23,351 --> 02:48:28,052
building. Uh, through you, Madam Chair, short answer is yes.

2328
02:48:29,061 --> 02:48:32,320
The most common way to control stormwater in a building

2329
02:48:32,360 --> 02:48:37,120
like this is through tanks that retain water and slowly

2330
02:48:37,160 --> 02:48:39,760
leak it out to the city systems. Those could be

2331
02:48:40,181 --> 02:48:43,200
in parking garage areas. They could be on the roof.

2332
02:48:43,200 --> 02:48:47,760
So that's, that's how, uh, the technical aspect of it

2333
02:48:47,781 --> 02:48:50,480
works so that that stormwater is eventually leaked out to

2334
02:48:50,520 --> 02:48:53,440
the system, uh, at the appropriate times when the system

2335
02:48:53,541 --> 02:48:58,174
is less stressed. Just a follow up on that. Would

2336
02:48:58,174 --> 02:49:05,149
you consider recycling the water. Um. Three of you, Madam

2337
02:49:05,149 --> 02:49:09,840
Chair. Ray says, sure. I don't know. I don't know

2338
02:49:09,861 --> 02:49:14,000
what the rules are around that, but yeah, for sure.

2339
02:49:14,981 --> 02:49:19,120
Thank you. Um, how close would NetZero will this be

2340
02:49:19,381 --> 02:49:29,157
this building be over and above the building code. I'd

2341
02:49:29,157 --> 02:49:31,797
have to say we're not quite sure. Not yet. We're

2342
02:49:31,978 --> 02:49:34,517
going to, I mean, we're going to try and make

2343
02:49:34,557 --> 02:49:38,437
it, you know, within the, um, constraints of the project.

2344
02:49:40,342 --> 02:49:43,101
There'll be value engineering done. But certainly in all, I

2345
02:49:43,101 --> 02:49:47,477
mean, it's the way we want to go. Okay. I

2346
02:49:47,517 --> 02:49:49,957
know you really can't give an answer, but, uh, I'm

2347
02:49:49,957 --> 02:49:51,397
throwing this at there now. So then you will be

2348
02:49:51,437 --> 02:49:57,956
considering it. My next question. I know a lot of

2349
02:49:57,956 --> 02:50:02,462
people inquired about the 23 floors. And I do have

2350
02:50:02,483 --> 02:50:08,737
concerns as well. Um, my question is why towers, two

2351
02:50:08,737 --> 02:50:12,782
towers. Why not spread the floors throughout the whole floor

2352
02:50:12,822 --> 02:50:18,340
plate. Footprint of the building and maybe having more units

2353
02:50:18,521 --> 02:50:21,466
in each floor. Which would reduce the height of the

2354
02:50:21,466 --> 02:50:29,645
building. Through you, Madam Chair, um, that, that is another

2355
02:50:29,666 --> 02:50:32,365
option, but they would be a large L - shaped

2356
02:50:32,786 --> 02:50:35,485
building, you know, like the existing zoning on the site.

2357
02:50:36,634 --> 02:50:41,973
Uh, allows that 10 story building, seven story podium. You

2358
02:50:41,973 --> 02:50:45,413
know, three stories above that as a big bar across

2359
02:50:45,674 --> 02:50:51,557
the site. But urban design principles, uh, do steers away

2360
02:50:51,557 --> 02:50:54,997
from that style of building. They do steer us toward

2361
02:50:55,978 --> 02:50:59,557
a podium level building, which is what really people interact

2362
02:50:59,658 --> 02:51:03,397
with and then stepping back to those towers which have

2363
02:51:03,418 --> 02:51:07,637
limited floor plates. They have long skinny shadows rather than

2364
02:51:07,677 --> 02:51:12,357
a large bar shadow that would actually cover, um, the

2365
02:51:12,357 --> 02:51:15,037
entire Annalene all day. Cause it would never move. It

2366
02:51:15,037 --> 02:51:18,117
would just a different part of our building would block

2367
02:51:19,098 --> 02:51:21,797
and a lane. But when you have the taller, skinny,

2368
02:51:21,797 --> 02:51:25,237
uh, towers, they cast narrower shadows. So it moves more

2369
02:51:25,258 --> 02:51:28,597
readily with the site. So it is urban design principles

2370
02:51:28,637 --> 02:51:31,877
that are established by the city of Kingston and many

2371
02:51:31,877 --> 02:51:35,317
other cities that dictate, uh, the form that's before this

2372
02:51:35,317 --> 02:51:38,992
committee. Okay. I wasn't how effect I would have in

2373
02:51:38,992 --> 02:51:42,592
the shadowing aspect. So basically what you're saying is because

2374
02:51:42,592 --> 02:51:45,392
of the narrow aspect of the towers be less shadowing

2375
02:51:45,392 --> 02:51:48,112
effect on the ad lane building, another buildings in the

2376
02:51:48,112 --> 02:51:51,152
area. And if this building was had a larger footprint

2377
02:51:51,893 --> 02:51:55,352
and would say reduced down to 10, 11 floors, it

2378
02:51:55,352 --> 02:51:58,724
would probably be an old day shadowing aspect. Through you,

2379
02:51:58,724 --> 02:52:01,264
Madam Chair, I would certainly have to model it. But

2380
02:52:01,264 --> 02:52:04,644
yes, that, that's the principle behind the tall towers versus

2381
02:52:04,745 --> 02:52:12,744
a bar building. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um, Councillor

2382
02:52:12,784 --> 02:52:15,844
Shaeves, would you take the chair for my police? I

2383
02:52:16,025 --> 02:52:19,743
take chair and recognise you. Thank you, sir. Um, so

2384
02:52:20,164 --> 02:52:25,963
through you, Mr. Chair, the applicant described already about, um,

2385
02:52:26,244 --> 02:52:29,103
the amenity space and how using a one bedroom, lots

2386
02:52:29,103 --> 02:52:31,823
of one bedrooms to model, um, helps with that in

2387
02:52:31,823 --> 02:52:34,183
the future. So I just want to offer that, I

2388
02:52:34,183 --> 02:52:37,423
think, you know, if we're talking about affordability and we're

2389
02:52:37,463 --> 02:52:40,123
talking about, um, a conversation I've been having a lot

2390
02:52:40,164 --> 02:52:43,103
lately is around right size housing. And so if we

2391
02:52:43,284 --> 02:52:47,263
have, you know, seniors or whoever, uh, empty nesters living

2392
02:52:47,284 --> 02:52:49,903
in large family homes who are looking to downsize and

2393
02:52:49,903 --> 02:52:52,623
maybe have a different next chapter of life, perhaps in

2394
02:52:52,623 --> 02:52:57,876
the downtown core. Often two bedroom at least, um, is

2395
02:52:57,916 --> 02:52:59,796
what people would be looking for. So I just want

2396
02:52:59,836 --> 02:53:04,036
to offer up a request, you know, for couples downsizing

2397
02:53:04,297 --> 02:53:06,436
for someone who needs to share an apartment with a

2398
02:53:06,457 --> 02:53:11,156
roommate for affordability reasons. Um, I just think fewer one

2399
02:53:11,156 --> 02:53:13,076
bedrooms and more two bedrooms would be great. I take

2400
02:53:13,097 --> 02:53:15,396
a point, um, I take the point that was made

2401
02:53:15,436 --> 02:53:17,236
about, you know, once you get into three bedrooms, people

2402
02:53:17,337 --> 02:53:20,356
start looking at homes or houses rather, um, and I

2403
02:53:20,356 --> 02:53:23,316
think that's a fair assessment. Um, so that's all I

2404
02:53:23,356 --> 02:53:25,296
wanted to offer in addition to the rest of the

2405
02:53:25,337 --> 02:53:29,692
conversation. And that's it. Since I don't see a question

2406
02:53:29,793 --> 02:53:37,562
there. I return the chair. Thank you very kindly. Um,

2407
02:53:37,562 --> 02:53:39,662
so all the committee members have had a chance to

2408
02:53:39,702 --> 02:53:41,422
speak, but we have a special guest with us this

2409
02:53:41,422 --> 02:53:45,996
evening. So we will turn to Councillor Rich. Thank you,

2410
02:53:45,996 --> 02:53:49,116
Madam Chair and through you. And I will politely ignore

2411
02:53:49,137 --> 02:53:53,756
the comments of cancella shaves over there. Um, the, so

2412
02:53:53,796 --> 02:53:55,756
I just want to begin by thanking everybody that came

2413
02:53:56,017 --> 02:54:00,716
the seed bang and, uh, expressed their concerns, their thoughts,

2414
02:54:00,716 --> 02:54:03,356
uh, even their support in some cases, uh, for this

2415
02:54:03,356 --> 02:54:06,156
project. And that's part of what public consultation is all

2416
02:54:06,156 --> 02:54:10,537
about. Um, I have, I think this is a very

2417
02:54:10,718 --> 02:54:15,157
interesting proposal. I have some questions. You know, a lot

2418
02:54:15,157 --> 02:54:17,657
of, lots of things have been, uh, mentioned about shadows

2419
02:54:17,758 --> 02:54:21,177
and shade. And I will, I will get to that.

2420
02:54:21,177 --> 02:54:23,737
But, um, I just want to ask a bit more

2421
02:54:23,777 --> 02:54:29,177
about the traffic. Traffic study. Because this area is evolving.

2422
02:54:29,177 --> 02:54:32,297
Um, it's incredibly complex. You have a number of developments

2423
02:54:32,318 --> 02:54:35,017
that are kind of coming online simultaneously as well as

2424
02:54:35,118 --> 02:54:39,417
an interaction with the ferry. And sports arena that hosts

2425
02:54:39,417 --> 02:54:43,077
events. So, um, you just mind giving me a bit

2426
02:54:43,077 --> 02:54:46,297
more information about the traffic study and what, what the

2427
02:54:46,337 --> 02:54:53,056
results of that were. Thank you for that question. And

2428
02:54:53,056 --> 02:54:59,636
through you, Madam Chair, one of the aspects that's makes,

2429
02:54:59,676 --> 02:55:01,876
makes a site like this work so well is that

2430
02:55:01,916 --> 02:55:04,516
all the loading is internal to the site. So if

2431
02:55:04,516 --> 02:55:09,892
you think about how the site operates now, uh. Full

2432
02:55:09,913 --> 02:55:13,812
size transport trucks, go down barrick street, throw it in

2433
02:55:13,852 --> 02:55:17,892
reverse and back into a loading space. And that, that

2434
02:55:17,993 --> 02:55:23,332
is not uncommon in downtown. If anything, most places, no

2435
02:55:23,513 --> 02:55:27,092
off, not even a site where you can back off.

2436
02:55:27,092 --> 02:55:31,892
The trucks just park on the street. So when you,

2437
02:55:31,892 --> 02:55:34,852
so from that loading, you know, garbage, all of those

2438
02:55:34,953 --> 02:55:38,372
aspects having a through lane for a development like this

2439
02:55:38,953 --> 02:55:43,892
actually offers an improvement to that side of the traffic.

2440
02:55:43,892 --> 02:55:48,292
And, and I know this may be hard to believe,

2441
02:55:48,292 --> 02:55:52,612
but dumping 500 residential units in downtown might sound like

2442
02:55:52,713 --> 02:55:55,492
a lot of units, but from a traffic perspective, it's

2443
02:55:55,593 --> 02:55:58,532
a blip. And you'll see that when you review our

2444
02:55:58,572 --> 02:56:03,812
traffic impact study, downtown already has traffic lights. It's not

2445
02:56:03,812 --> 02:56:08,452
even recommending changing timing of traffic lights to handle this.

2446
02:56:08,452 --> 02:56:11,172
You know, it's, it's handling all of its parking off

2447
02:56:11,353 --> 02:56:14,452
sites separate from that loading space. And so when you

2448
02:56:14,452 --> 02:56:17,652
take a look at that traffic study, you'll see that.

2449
02:56:17,652 --> 02:56:20,372
Um, but at the same time not to take our

2450
02:56:20,372 --> 02:56:24,432
own traffic consultants word for it. The city staff, you

2451
02:56:24,432 --> 02:56:30,372
know, departments will be reviewing that report and commenting or

2452
02:56:30,393 --> 02:56:35,812
agreeing with it through the process. Thank you. Oh, thank

2453
02:56:35,812 --> 02:56:38,612
you very much. That's, that's very helpful. Yeah. No, I

2454
02:56:38,713 --> 02:56:42,372
agree about the on site loading. Absolutely. We can all

2455
02:56:42,372 --> 02:56:46,052
look to the Metro grocery store on, on Barry Street

2456
02:56:46,073 --> 02:56:49,812
about that one. Um, yeah, no, I think it's just

2457
02:56:49,913 --> 02:56:52,852
an ongoing concern that I've heard from, uh, folks that

2458
02:56:52,852 --> 02:56:55,092
live in the area just because of the number of,

2459
02:56:55,132 --> 02:56:59,812
of moving pieces there. Um, now if we're talking about.

2460
02:57:01,515 --> 02:57:05,944
Shadows, we're going to talk about shadows. Um, under section

2461
02:57:06,365 --> 02:57:11,375
2. 72, the official plan, this adverse effect. And this

2462
02:57:11,375 --> 02:57:14,735
is a question more for staff. What I don't see

2463
02:57:14,996 --> 02:57:17,535
a definition of an adverse effect in the official plan

2464
02:57:17,716 --> 02:57:23,295
itself explicitly merely what, you know, talking about potentially an

2465
02:57:23,295 --> 02:57:26,875
adverse effect is, um, staff mind telling me a bit

2466
02:57:26,875 --> 02:57:34,832
more about that. Is that okay? Mr. Bar. Thanks. And

2467
02:57:34,832 --> 02:57:38,372
through you chair, uh, right. Let me just refresh my

2468
02:57:38,713 --> 02:57:41,012
brain on where adverse impact come from. So there is

2469
02:57:41,012 --> 02:57:46,848
a definition of compatibility under the plan. Compatibility, specifically outlines

2470
02:57:46,888 --> 02:57:51,888
what it considers to be compatible. And I believe adverse,

2471
02:57:51,888 --> 02:57:55,008
I believe adverse impact is actually defined. So it's called

2472
02:57:55,189 --> 02:58:01,088
adverse effects under the official plan. An adverse, yeah, adverse,

2473
02:58:01,088 --> 02:58:02,368
I had to find it. Sorry. I had to vamp

2474
02:58:02,408 --> 02:58:04,208
there for a minute while I found this. So adverse

2475
02:58:04,208 --> 02:58:07,088
effects means one of the following. An impairment of the

2476
02:58:07,269 --> 02:58:10,208
quality of the natural environment for any use that can

2477
02:58:10,248 --> 02:58:13,728
be made of it. Injury or damage to property plant

2478
02:58:13,829 --> 02:58:17,328
or animal life, harm or material discomfort to any person

2479
02:58:17,989 --> 02:58:21,088
and adverse effect on the health of any person, impairment

2480
02:58:21,088 --> 02:58:24,928
of the safety of any person, rendering any property or

2481
02:58:25,109 --> 02:58:28,848
plant or mammal life unfit for human use, the loss

2482
02:58:28,848 --> 02:58:32,208
of enjoyment of normal use of a property and interference

2483
02:58:32,229 --> 02:58:36,208
with a normal conduct of business. So an adverse effect

2484
02:58:37,349 --> 02:58:40,288
is one of these following things depending on what is

2485
02:58:40,469 --> 02:58:43,648
being reviewed as part of it under the tests for

2486
02:58:43,669 --> 02:58:48,348
compatibility, which range from impacts to the natural environment, the

2487
02:58:48,348 --> 02:58:52,848
human environment, uh, to the normal conduct of properties. Thank

2488
02:58:52,848 --> 02:58:56,848
you very much. And in the following section, 2. 7.

2489
02:58:56,888 --> 02:59:01,788
3, what's the first one that's listed as a, uh,

2490
02:59:01,909 --> 02:59:08,524
potential item. Under 27, three, the first item listed is

2491
02:59:08,705 --> 02:59:12,452
shadowing. Okay. Thank you. So shadowing, shadowing is a land

2492
02:59:12,452 --> 02:59:15,492
use compatibility consideration. Yeah. I know. Thank you very much.

2493
02:59:16,073 --> 02:59:21,972
Um, okay. And so this isn't, this is more of

2494
02:59:21,993 --> 02:59:24,292
a holistic question is I'm not a member of the

2495
02:59:24,332 --> 02:59:29,269
Planning Committee. And so I'm something of an amateur. What

2496
02:59:29,370 --> 02:59:34,469
takes precedent? Provincial Planning Act or official plan, the city

2497
02:59:34,570 --> 02:59:41,148
official plan. Bar. Thanks. And through you chair, um, they

2498
02:59:41,188 --> 02:59:44,588
both work together in tandem. So the official plan is

2499
02:59:44,769 --> 02:59:48,508
the policy document for the city of Kingston that implements

2500
02:59:48,529 --> 02:59:51,788
the provincial policy. Uh, so both work in tandem with

2501
02:59:51,788 --> 02:59:55,468
each other. There are matters of test for compatibility in

2502
02:59:55,468 --> 02:59:58,588
other like considerations of the city that aren't necessarily directly

2503
02:59:58,609 --> 03:00:01,868
reflected in the provincial planning statement. So there are different

2504
03:00:02,449 --> 03:00:04,988
and unique tests that are hosted both at the provincial

2505
03:00:05,009 --> 03:00:08,428
level and the local level. So both policy documents have

2506
03:00:08,428 --> 03:00:13,266
to be met in our evaluation of planning applications. Okay.

2507
03:00:13,266 --> 03:00:19,746
Thank you. Um, that's very interesting. Um, so, okay. That

2508
03:00:19,786 --> 03:00:21,806
just tells me to put things into perspective a bit.

2509
03:00:23,162 --> 03:00:25,781
Uh, and, you know, I want folks to know that

2510
03:00:25,821 --> 03:00:28,900
I take their concerns a bit that's very seriously. And

2511
03:00:28,940 --> 03:00:31,060
as part of the reason I'm asking these questions is

2512
03:00:31,100 --> 03:00:35,282
trying to understand a bit better. So I appreciate the

2513
03:00:35,322 --> 03:00:42,549
answers from staff. Um, so obviously shadowing is very highly

2514
03:00:42,810 --> 03:00:46,829
considered under the official plan. It's mentioned 16 times. I

2515
03:00:46,829 --> 03:00:50,229
didn't just do a word search at that, Mr. Bar.

2516
03:00:50,229 --> 03:00:52,927
I actually read The Thing. And one of the other

2517
03:00:53,268 --> 03:00:58,527
things on the 2. 7. 3 letter J, as degradation

2518
03:00:58,527 --> 03:01:03,487
of cultural heritage resources. So, um, what is going on

2519
03:01:04,068 --> 03:01:06,847
in terms of there are a number of cultural, a

2520
03:01:06,847 --> 03:01:09,487
number of heritage resources around the building in terms of,

2521
03:01:09,487 --> 03:01:12,367
you know, the construction. And is there anything that the

2522
03:01:12,548 --> 03:01:14,927
proponent of the applicant can speak to with regards to

2523
03:01:14,967 --> 03:01:21,953
that in particular? Mr. Keene. Through you, Madam Chair, there's

2524
03:01:21,974 --> 03:01:24,913
two aspects of that question. One is that as part

2525
03:01:24,913 --> 03:01:28,833
of our application, we do have a cultural heritage expert

2526
03:01:28,833 --> 03:01:33,473
that has commented on the project and has reviewed those

2527
03:01:33,734 --> 03:01:39,073
designated enlisted properties and has given input to the architect

2528
03:01:39,174 --> 03:01:43,953
as the project has been designed. The second aspect, which

2529
03:01:43,953 --> 03:01:46,193
is something that will be considered much later in the

2530
03:01:46,374 --> 03:01:52,193
process is when, when construction starts, you know, protections will

2531
03:01:52,294 --> 03:01:56,033
be part of that process for those resources. Whether they're

2532
03:01:56,033 --> 03:02:00,833
heritage buildings or not, there are processes that protect adjacent

2533
03:02:00,854 --> 03:02:06,193
properties, uh, from, from digging and, you know, potentially falling

2534
03:02:06,233 --> 03:02:09,153
in per se. So, so those are the two aspects

2535
03:02:09,254 --> 03:02:16,469
that the application will consider. Okay. Thank you very much.

2536
03:02:17,690 --> 03:02:21,269
Based on where we are right now and the proposal

2537
03:02:21,370 --> 03:02:26,389
and everything, I'm sure I'll have significantly more annoying questions

2538
03:02:26,650 --> 03:02:29,909
at the next meeting. But, uh, but I just wanted

2539
03:02:29,930 --> 03:02:35,092
it there and take everybody for the time. Thank you.

2540
03:02:35,092 --> 03:02:40,672
Okay. That concludes this community meeting at 904 PM. Um,

2541
03:02:40,873 --> 03:02:43,252
if you wish to stay for the last little bit,

2542
03:02:43,292 --> 03:02:45,172
you're welcome. If you wish to leave, uh, you're welcome

2543
03:02:45,172 --> 03:02:47,012
to do that too. Please do so quietly so we

2544
03:02:47,012 --> 03:02:49,332
can finish up. Thank you kindly. All right. I will

2545
03:02:49,372 --> 03:02:52,852
now call the regular meeting to order at 905 PM.

2546
03:02:52,852 --> 03:02:54,612
Do we have a mover in a seconder to approve

2547
03:02:54,652 --> 03:02:58,132
the agenda with the addendum? Move by Councillor Shaves, seconded

2548
03:02:58,172 --> 03:03:03,212
by Councillor Sanic. All those in favor. And that's carried.

2549
03:03:04,547 --> 03:03:06,446
Do I have a mover in Secondar to confirm the

2550
03:03:06,486 --> 03:03:10,126
minutes of Planning Committee meeting number 2026 - 15 held

2551
03:03:10,147 --> 03:03:16,465
September 3rd, 2026. Move by Councillor Shaves, seconded by Councillor

2552
03:03:16,486 --> 03:03:23,317
Oceanic, all those in favor. And that's carried. Are there

2553
03:03:23,357 --> 03:03:27,237
any disclosures of pecuniary interest? Seeing none, there are no

2554
03:03:27,237 --> 03:03:29,717
delegations. There are no briefings. We have no items of

2555
03:03:29,757 --> 03:03:32,517
business on the agenda. There are no motions. There are

2556
03:03:32,517 --> 03:03:35,797
no notices of motion. Is there any other business? Seeing

2557
03:03:35,797 --> 03:03:39,877
none, correspondence was included in the agenda and the addendum.

2558
03:03:39,877 --> 03:03:42,037
The next meeting of the Planning Committee scheduled for Thursday,

2559
03:03:42,037 --> 03:03:45,077
October 1st, 2026 at 6 p. m. Can I please

2560
03:03:45,098 --> 03:03:46,917
have a mover in Second or to adjourn the meeting,

2561
03:03:46,917 --> 03:03:49,237
move by Councillor Oceanic, seconded by Councillor Shapes, all those

2562
03:03:49,277 --> 03:03:52,037
in favor. And that's Carrie. Good night everyone. Thank you.

2563
03:03:52,077 --> 03:03:52,837
We are adjourned.