[0:12] Kingston Springs Regional Planning
Commission meeting is now in
[0:16] session uh R call of voting members
Keith Al good present Tony Thompson
[0:21] absent Tony gross here Mike harus here
Lauren Hill here Mike Paton Craig kit
[0:28] Maurice bafford here Bob doer here
Sharon Armstrong here Peter kimra is
[0:34] here by request only John laws here we
have
[0:40] qu we have a motion to approve the March
14 Planning Commission meeting minutes
[0:45] so moved
second all in favor I those
[0:50] opposed motion carries motion to approve
uh April 11 2024 Planning Commission
[0:56] meeting agenda Madam chairman I have a
correction on item 10 under new
[1:02] business okay on towards the end of the
paragraph after Zone feema n fpx Zone
[1:09] everything after Zone needs to be
stricken from the record it's a leftover
[1:13] from last month okay so property located
in FEMA nfx Zone recommend yeah
[1:19] everything
regarding right okay we have motion to
[1:24] approve that
change I believe motion motion to
[1:30] second motion made in second all in
favor say I I those
[1:35] opposed okay thank you now motion to
approve minutes as agenda for the April
[1:40] 11 Planning Commission approve second
all those in favor those
[1:49] opposed the agenda is
approved Community
[1:54] input which is public comments shall be
limited to 3 minutes for all regular
[1:59] agenda items and items removed from the
agenda and all and an overall time limit
[2:04] for all comments on agenda items to 10
minutes unless extended by vote of the
[2:08] majority of the Planning
Commission the chairman shall limit
[2:12] comments to the agenda items to relevant
comments and shall restrict comments
[2:16] that are disruptive in nature do we have
anyone here that wishes to provide
[2:21] Community
input okay please come forward and state
[2:24] your name and where you live
[2:31] my name is Bill Rogers I'm at 1660 South
arith Road uh and I'd like to comment on
[2:38] the uh item 10 uh it that needs to be
commented now and not after item 10 is
[2:45] discussed I assume that's F sir what
what are your comments okay uh this is
[2:51] of course of
[2:55] rezoning if if I may I'm sorry I
apologize to Mr Rogers and to the
[2:59] chairman of the board they're allowed on
an agenda item they comment during the
[3:04] meeting public comments are oberved for
things that are not on the agenda so if
[3:09] it's an agenda item it's presented and
then they're allowed to comment during
[3:13] that time because it's on the published
agenda okay so it's not during well if
[3:19] if that's my apolog if I'm incorrect
occurs during the meeting because all of
[3:24] that gets captured um sometimes you'll
come in and want to talk about things
[3:28] that aren't on the agenda that's what
the public comment is for so this it
[3:32] comes up on the agenda Therefore your
comments we'll discuss this when we get
[3:37] to item 10 been proposed that's what my
understanding was too okay my apologies
[3:42] I do have another uh besides item 10 all
right sir uh and I've commented about
[3:48] this before about uh South Hari Road
uh Kingston Springs needs to put some
[3:57] signs out there on bumps caution uh
dangerous area we're we've got areas the
[4:04] size of this room that people are
bumping across mud on uh I know we've
[4:08] had at least two cars go off in the
ditch uh we're a very dangerous
[4:12] situation there and I don't know we've
been working on this for three years I
[4:17] guess on the road and I know Mrs
Armstrong has got is working on this
[4:21] with one of other addendum items uh but
I would just like to bring up the fact
[4:26] that please uh if we can get some
caution sides out there before somebody
[4:32] really gets hurt thank you thank you
[4:36] sir do we have any any other comments on
items that are not going to be discussed
[4:41] during the course of our
meeting okay Community input is
[4:49] closed Declaration of conflict in the
event that any member shall have a
[4:52] personal interest of any kind in a
matter before the Kingston Springs
[4:56] Municipal Regional Planning Commission
he or she shall disclose their interest
[4:59] conflict of interest is defined in the
municipal code Title 1 chapter 4 section
[5:04] 1-42 through Section 1-04 are there any
conflicts none we'll move
[5:11] forward old business ERS Le PUD
consideration of approval of amended
[5:16] grading plans yes ma'am thank you if
you'll remember staff was allowed to
[5:21] review the grading plans in order to
inhibit any further damage on the elders
[5:26] Le property due to the spring rain
so the city engineer vetted the plans I
[5:32] looked at the plans in your packet
directly behind the minutes which is uh
[5:38] from last month is the plan the drainage
calculation and the revisions that it
[5:45] went through um with their engineer and
our engineer we then vetted them and
[5:50] they were issued a permit to continue
the grading at that point uh we asked
[5:56] for permission which is a rare thing for
staff to do the review and allow the to
[5:59] move forward so that with the rain
that's occurred between now when the
[6:03] plans could come back here would not
further inhibit U the residents so those
[6:08] are in your packet and formal approval
by the Planning Commission is
[6:13] required so there're they're meeting our
requirements they do uh the city
[6:19] engineer signed off on them about five
weeks ago so with the last set of
[6:24] revisions to recalculate the drainage to
the road because it's still showing
[6:29] water blowing over West Kingson Springs
Road with the previous set of
[6:34] calculations I have looked at it to make
sure that it includes a note on it that
[6:39] they have to scope the sewer lines
because of the previous incident that we
[6:44] had they have worked through all of
their issues with second South cheetah
[6:47] second South cheetah did the repair
design and execut it the developer did
[6:52] not so everything has been resolved at
this point we can't guarantee this is
[6:56] going to fully address all the runoff
because sometimes with the topography
[7:01] it's kind of trial and error so uh but
uh the city engineer is very comfortable
[7:07] with these plans and it's been a great
that we them
[7:14] asend make a motion we approve second
motion to approve and second is there
[7:19] any further
discussion all those in favor say I I
[7:24] opposed motion
passes okay uh uh Golf Course Tennessee
[7:31] update on maintenance facility proposed
site plan performance bond requirements
[7:34] for construction damage to South harpi
Road the Country Club Road within the
[7:39] city limits of the town of Kingston
Springs uh soil and erosion issues
[7:43] reported by Mimi
Rose consideration of approval for
[7:48] performance bond for repairs to South
parp
[7:51] Road um since our last meeting we
advised um Planning Commission that we
[7:56] were determining the linear foot cost
for the temporary repaving and repair of
[8:03] South harp road because before everybody
was taking the detour the bridge was not
[8:08] in now they're taking they're turning
out and going across the new bridge and
[8:13] there's a lot of damage to um South
harpi Road all the way up to CC road so
[8:20] the golf club has been made aware of
that they have been provided by the city
[8:24] engineer the per linear foot cost uh
were still or not negotiate having
[8:30] discussions with them we would like them
to from the city limits all the way to
[8:34] CC road because that's where the damage
is occurring there's still a great deal
[8:38] of dumb truck and occasionally semi TR
uh traffic coming in and out of there
[8:44] the build out for that particular area
for the maintenance facility and the new
[8:49] office building is going to be at least
another 6 to n months uh they're still
[8:54] working through an easement agreement
with the DOR property because they don't
[8:57] directly but at the maintenance facility
location South Harvard Road so we've
[9:03] advise them that the regulations require
permanent Perpetual easement agreement
[9:09] with the maintenance between the two of
them um at that location with a rough
[9:14] tape measure it's 17 FT 1 and 3/4 in of
width when the dumb trucks are turning
[9:20] out they're exceeding the pavement uh
they're plowing ruts on both sides
[9:26] they're also crossing the ditch from
that location which is stopping it up
[9:30] they're doing a pretty good job of
keeping that cleaned out but as they get
[9:34] to the bridge the bridge of but the
approach to the bridge is much wider
[9:37] than the road and so the damage from the
dump truck that's starting to degrade
[9:42] the concrete at the bridge location so
they're aware of all of these things um
[9:48] those discussions are ongoing the uh
city has determined the linear foot cost
[9:54] and the length of the road that needs to
be repaired this will not be a permanent
[9:58] resurfacing
because it's pointless to completely to
[10:02] do the improvements that will be
required if the Planning Commission
[10:05] approves the new site plan with the
In-N-Out driveway uh if you if you
[10:10] approve that then it will require them
to widen that road because it's just not
[10:16] wide enough for that heavy traffic going
in and out of there and I would U ask
[10:20] that the Planning Commission if you have
time it's a short drive now that you
[10:24] like to go around go by cross the bridge
once you come off the other stop get out
[10:29] and take a look at what you're seeing so
it at the
[10:33] minimum depending on what the traffic
study brings they have 65 parking spaces
[10:38] going in there that facility will serve
not only the greens maintenance at that
[10:43] location for both golf courses it will
also um for Turf maintenance staff
[10:50] parking will be there for a number of
other operations and the office staff
[10:55] they're building a new office location
there so with that many vehicles coming
[10:59] in and out there's also a proposed
connection from the back of the
[11:02] maintenance facility to DBI from that
location that's closer to South harith
[11:09] Road than it is to coming in at the golf
club primary entrance so um increased
[11:15] traffic um at the minimum the road needs
to be widened because it's not real safe
[11:21] in that location and it's just not I
that's a permanent request for them
[11:26] deliveries will go in that back door uh
for large truck delivery to serve the
[11:32] clubhouse the country club the pro shop
so it'll be an ongoing thing and then
[11:38] the increased traffic on that road for
people that maintain the greens so
[11:43] widening will be necessary the
regulations required it meets the the
[11:47] minimum number of parking spaces and
increased traffic to cause that to
[11:52] happen so that'll be in phase two if the
side plan is improved but my advice to
[11:57] the Planning Commission would be to hold
off on that until the construction is
[12:02] complete because if you pave it
permanently now you're just going to
[12:07] have to PVE it again so are there any
questions on that section of
[12:12] it okay so and erosion they have had and
I know they dislike it but it's the
[12:18] language on their epsc reports from
their site person there been two solid
[12:24] erosion and St water failures uh in the
last several weeks both resulted in
[12:29] complaints from adjacent Property Owners
uh I asked Mr Hooper the engineer to
[12:36] share with us what caused um those
failures whether something just laid
[12:41] down a wire a fence what happened and he
said on the first incident they were
[12:47] unable to determine what the cause or
the source was but the water went into
[12:51] the Cur or the dirt went into the creek
sold it and into the river
[12:56] Beyond both times um they're having a
little bit of trouble stabilizing three
[13:01] of the holes on the top of the
ridge my assumption is since it's next
[13:06] to the Ravine on the property which then
feeds into the creek that's most likely
[13:11] uh the source of failure so I've asked
them to revisit that I've also reminded
[13:16] them that if we have
multiple incidences of this that a stop
[13:22] will be issued until they repair the so
and erosion control so I don't want to
[13:26] do that but we have to address the issue
right so that's all we had is just an
[13:31] update there's no action to be had
okay any other comments
[13:39] re
okay uh discussion of sidewalks from the
[13:43] ERS be PUD to downtown Kingston Springs
an update yes ma'am as you know this is
[13:49] a standing item until some till we're
done with um the review and the
[13:55] consideration I've had a conversation
with a condo of HOA they are now um
[14:01] they've asked last week for me to get an
item to their board so they can consider
[14:05] it their HOA board to connect it from
there so and I was assigned to end that
[14:12] comes off of phase one through and ends
up next to Turnbull down here so that
[14:17] was my end of it um so I have already
spoken to we've spoken with the
[14:22] developer met with him he was um
amenable to coming across there um
[14:29] we will likely require them to put the
utilities in a culvert as it goes down
[14:35] the side boundaries so that we don't
have any damage to anything on on
[14:38] utilities on that edge and then from
there it would go to the condo
[14:44] association uh Mr Francis I placed a
couple phone calls to Mr Francis who
[14:49] owns the rental house adjacent to
Turnbull but it's a shorter path um less
[14:56] money we don't have to acquire right
away if Mr Francis agrees to allow the
[15:02] sidewalk to run in front of his rental
property then there won't be any cost to
[15:06] acquire property to run the sidewalk so
they would be able to walk from ellersly
[15:10] all the way
to right down here and come out there so
[15:15] that's just an update that's as far as
we've got okay thank
[15:21] you okay uh 9d Roy B mcferson The
Willows 129 East Kingston Springs Road
[15:28] Cor Grill update yes I think everyone
received a letter yes um I'm not going
[15:36] to characterize the letter um I would
like to stick to the facts this board in
[15:42] November of last year because of a
complaint we had two
[15:47] complaints um with the type of fill
going on the property and the excess of
[15:53] the grading plan that was approved by
almost an acre so that was brought here
[15:59] the Planning Commission approved
expanding the grading permit they then
[16:04] had to expand their plans with Tac in
order to remedy that um they were given
[16:10] a soul map which you approved um a core
map for drilling and a report was
[16:16] required to be submitted staff engineer
and I for review and then to come to
[16:21] this body with that review we still do
not have a copy of that core report so
[16:26] the gist of the complaint is that stop
work order is still in place we can't
[16:31] lift it until we know what's in the soul
and until we get the compassion from the
[16:35] report so since the report has not been
furnished we're kind of between a rock
[16:41] and a hard place the second item that
was asked for was reconsideration of the
[16:45] approval of the development plan we
can't get to the development plan until
[16:50] we solve the problem with the grading
plan because one feeds into the other so
[16:55] the letter did not come in time to
advertise
[16:59] um that agenda item it came after
advertising the agenda was advertised
[17:04] and published in the paper but it will
be on your agenda for next
[17:08] month okay so any questions anybody has
be we requested the core pardon in
[17:17] November we requested them to sample the
soil and do the cord drill in November
[17:21] that is correct that has that been
completed it has been completed um then
[17:26] why don't we have why don't we have a
copy of it I have no idea
[17:29] I I don't know how to answer that
question um I was informed by the
[17:33] geotechnical engineering firm that it
was completed and a copy was provided to
[17:38] the
applicant okay it just has not been
[17:41] furnished to the city so we can't move
forward until we have any of this that
[17:44] is correct we we don't know what's there
now so we don't know how to move forward
[17:50] and that is provided okay any other
comments questions oh he has he been
[17:56] told that that he needs to provide has
he been told that he needs to bring that
[18:01] multiple times U when I advised him um
of this meeting and the fact that we
[18:08] couldn't wasn't advertised so we
couldn't as a body make a decision we
[18:12] can't make a decision anyway if we don't
have those results he has been advised
[18:15] that it needed to be provided he was
advised right after I first learned that
[18:20] the cordal report was done um he was
advised again 3 weeks after that okay
[18:27] advised again all right so they're aware
that uh they seem to be a couple of his
[18:33] professionals seemed to be surprised
that we had not received it and so we
[18:39] had a request from his civil engineer
not not the Geotech engineer the civil
[18:44] engineer that did plan set and his
question was have you received it no we
[18:49] have not so until we get that at this
point we can't take okay all right that
[18:56] ends that discussion okay
um new business recommendations by the
[19:00] town of Kingston Springs City commission
requested rezone for the property
[19:05] located at 795 South harpi road map 100
parcel 00
[19:12] 011.0 from agricultural District to R1
low density residential district for the
[19:17] purpose of subdividing the property
property located in FEMA nfip X
[19:24] zone so I'm going to lay the framework
for this request in your packet you have
[19:28] an application from the county um and
for the new members I'm going to have to
[19:33] walk you through this
briefly during the original growth
[19:37] planning process that occurred in 1999
through
[19:41] 2000 Kingston Springs and chetam County
entered into an agreement that if a
[19:47] property lay within the growth boundary
of the town of Kingston Springs you
[19:52] would become the recommending body to
the chetam County Commission on resoning
[19:58] questions in that circumstance we are
required by the contractual agreement
[20:03] approved by the state to use their
zoning
[20:07] ORD if the property is then approved for
resoning and a subdivision request is
[20:14] then made it comes back to this Planning
Commission and we have to use our
[20:19] subdivision regulations in order to vet
the subdivision proposal so for those of
[20:26] you that are somewhat familiar with this
if you reach back a couple of years it
[20:30] creates complications for us because in
the county they allow things to be
[20:36] developed U I'll give you an example
flood areas they allow you to construct
[20:40] in a flood are we do not so sometimes
those two documents their zoning
[20:46] ordinance and our separat don't need in
the m so that was one complication the
[20:52] other is we had within our growth plan
to Ranch
[20:55] ads we were visiting a hardship on this
people the subdivision was done a really
[21:00] long time ago build out there are
multiple houses multiple lots a very
[21:07] large subdivision and then after it was
built out the county assigned an E1 3
[21:12] Acre minimum zoning
overl the lots are built out so if they
[21:18] wanted a shed a pool they had to come to
us for a recommendation to reone to an
[21:24] area that would allow it sort of put a
burden on people and in the process in
[21:30] this particular case this is relatively
undeveloped
[21:34] land currently has one residence on it
the land that's being considered here
[21:41] tonight the proposal is to have a
relatively small lot and a slightly
[21:46] larger lot the chetam county regulations
for agriculture we do not have a purely
[21:51] agricultural Zone in the city we're
Urban but in the county you have to have
[21:57] an a 4 acre minimum if you have public
water in an agricultural zone 5 acre
[22:04] minimum if you don't have public water
and the the original goal of that is if
[22:10] you have a well if you don't have public
water you have a well was to separate
[22:14] the septic system take into account
topography and other issues water table
[22:20] from uh your septic system being
separated from your water source so um
[22:26] that rule is in place the county
recently updated their zoning ordinance
[22:29] they don't have a specific lot
requirement in anything other size
[22:35] requirement in anything other than
agricultural so now they kind of look at
[22:40] it on a caseby casee submission to
determine whether the lot is adequate so
[22:45] that's the basics of that the request um
I have a couple of observations they're
[22:52] requesting to reone the
entire
[22:56] parcel my concern is we have three lots
that are proposed and you can see them
[23:01] on the map here and then behind that is
a Subdivision plat and I'm sure that the
[23:06] drafter is here and the owner is here so
they can better answer these questions
[23:11] but I have in front of you it's kind of
hard to see John can we put that up on
[23:17] the screen we can't okay we can't put it
on the screen so you have the lot next
[23:21] to the road and then you have two more
lots and there's a space in between
[23:26] adjacent to this property lies The Golf
Club of
[23:29] BBI U just for informational purposes
nothing within this the smaller Creek is
[23:35] not at a mat blood area that came about
during the last time your mats were
[23:39] updated in 2016 and adopted in
2018 so the request my reservation and
[23:46] my recommendation to the Planning
Commission because we don't know what
[23:49] the purpose is for the rest of the
vacant land which is I
[23:56] believe the whole track is 19.21%
[24:28] faith that that's why most of the
residents have joined us tonight and
[24:32] everybody will be given a time to
respond Mr Su so again the last email
[24:39] that I got was a request to
rezone recommend we don't rezone we're
[24:44] just recommending to the county the
entire parcel so if Mr Summers has
[24:50] information that's different from that
we'll be happy to hear
[24:54] it so that's yes please how many minutes
do I get right there
[24:59] how many minutes do I get two and a half
uh Just for information purposes and
[25:05] help me I'm not trying to rezone the
whole place I'm I'm sorry Mr Su you're
[25:09] going to have to the application that
was filed indicates that they okay well
[25:14] that was incorrect and well so you're
the let's clarify you're the owner of
[25:19] the property sir yes I I am Scott
Summers and I'm glad to be here in a
[25:22] less contentious manner I haven't met
you yet but thank you I'm H DBI and our
[25:27] like but
anyway I love them right but anyway um
[25:32] Mr Summers you'll have to address them
her commission instead of the audience
[25:37] help me here I didn't all I was trying
to do was get zoning
[25:41] almost three correct I want to keep that
in a green belt that's why we kept it at
[25:46] 15 Acres excellent okay in my long-term
goal this is all okay let me just start
[25:54] here uh this is all about a family here
okay I'm trying to create a family
[25:58] compound okay I have a myself my son and
my daughter my son's here uh my
[26:05] neighbors uh and I want to thank my
neighbors those of you who did call me
[26:10] this was a great time to catch up with
the neighbors okay so for or against it
[26:14] was good talking to you but
uh I'm just trying to create three spots
[26:21] along that road there U and that's
that's the only request that you have to
[26:25] be changed from agricultural to R1 of
those three that is and that little
[26:31] point 4 Acres that I want I don't care
what it is yeah it can be out coach I
[26:35] just want DBI to buy it it's it's
useless to me
[26:38] anymore and I just wanted to Plat on it
if they would be kind enough to buy it
[26:42] it's worthless to me anymore um but the
three lots uh I have son and a daughter
[26:49] the two acre lots for my son Judy's here
she would be the neighbor to that uh
[26:55] I've talked to Salem and they would love
Mike would be their neighbor the other
[26:58] one's for my daughter uh they will share
that driveway that's what that two
[27:03] pieces
is uh the third piece I want to create a
[27:07] piece for me to die in okay I want to
build a little cottage there I just
[27:11] buried my father my mom probably get
well it's he was 102 okay and he lived
[27:19] until the last four days of his life
other than he had a helper taking care
[27:22] of him and and a wife and I mean that's
what I seek okay I don't want to live in
[27:26] an old folks home my moms in an
Alzheimer Center I
[27:30] pay unbelievable 100 Grand a year for
her to be there I I can build a house
[27:35] for that and I want to build it
accessible for me and a wheelchair and a
[27:39] bed and an extra bedroom for an
attendant to live and take care of me a
[27:45] nurse whatever you want to call it so so
to simplify what we were looking at
[27:49] we're simply what we're looking at is
those three those three lots are all
[27:52] you're requesting that's correct that's
what I'm goinging 15.2 at all none n
[27:58] that's great I appreciate your
clarification understand that yeah and
[28:02] and it's not for me to sell I I'm I want
to put that 15 acres in a family trust
[28:07] that can never be sold okay uh I'm
probably the senior other am I the
[28:11] senior citizen in the valley who's the
oldest one you or
[28:15] me Jasper that's
[28:21] right but anyway I just I'm not here to
and you did actually get more than three
[28:26] minutes oh am I done okay um there's no
limit on this
[28:33] I but thank you and y' do y'all have any
questions about
[28:37] it I had no idea i' stir up this much uh
controversy
[28:43] on no that's makes it very simple it was
submitted from your representatives
[28:50] that's correct and and and that's just
miscommunication with us they want the
[28:54] whole thing res so for the purposes of
tonight's meeting in consideration we're
[29:01] going to have to resubmit get his no not
resubmit okay um because it's not on the
[29:08] plat that way it's just in the
application and the discussion that went
[29:14] back into between your folks and the
county so we'll have to get his
[29:21] consent or he is going to have to
resubmit we'll have to get his consent
[29:26] to only consider the three Lots now and
that's correct that is all I'm
[29:32] seeking consent do we just ask do do we
have your consent you have my consent
[29:38] that's all I'm seeking do these three
lots exist at the moment or is is this
[29:42] all a concept or or do these three lots
exist at the moment it's a concept it's
[29:46] a concept so so these three lots have to
exist first right they don't exist right
[29:52] now well it's a double-edged sword and
they they've got the perk first and
[29:55] that's going to be the next situation
they may not not even per and I may not
[29:59] this way issue I think that the thing
that we consider is not not just intent
[30:03] but capability you know and what what
we're doing what it provides the
[30:08] opportunity to do so just make sure
we're doing this exactly how we need to
[30:12] do it because I I do understand that
these things need to be subdivided and
[30:15] things of that nature before that can be
considered that's correct this this is
[30:19] just all we are doing here is making a
recommendation we making a
[30:21] recommendation the county for the
resoning from agriculture through for
[30:26] these specific areas
right and you agree to that 100% I agree
[30:33] all right that's what we need thank you
thank you the other thing for the
[30:36] Planning Commission to consider as we've
discussed in resoning within the city
[30:41] once you rezoned to
R1 within this agricultural area which
[30:47] the county does really frequently it
started out because people when they
[30:53] borrowed money from the Farm Credit
Service or got a mortgage they didn't
[30:56] want to mortgage their house along the
farm so they would ask to
[31:01] subdivide that one acre out with house
on it so that it didn't become a part or
[31:07] they didn't want to mortgage the farm in
order to build the house that's where it
[31:11] generated but there are literally
hundreds of these in the county now
[31:17] probably thousands of these where you'll
see these little one acre spots in the
[31:20] middle of a sea of agricultural land but
it does open up an area that is now
[31:27] purely agricultural to that but for the
purposes that he States and you're going
[31:32] to put this in a
conservation the
[31:36] ran it's yeah it's going to stay in the
green belt it's in right now do that you
[31:40] can do that put it in the green belt Mr
it's in the green probably help you out
[31:45] with it no it's in a green belt now I'll
have to pay currently is in Green Belt
[31:49] it currently is right now have you
contacted the property assessor to
[31:53] determine what you have to do next when
you take these out oh yeah you got to
[31:57] pay back taxes on yeah uh well you still
have 15 Acres 15 acres is the minimum
[32:04] that's correct that is correct so he has
15 remaining Acres that will remain in
[32:09] but these three have to be removed and
reclassified for taxation purposes
[32:12] correct that's correct yeah yeah and
I'll owe everybody some
[32:17] money you you
said you said you wanted to serve this
[32:23] with just one road the two pieces the
one and the two two that's just one
[32:29] driveway okay the county has some
peculiar oh and I've talked to Robert
[32:34] about with how they do private well and
just so you know they're the county is
[32:39] coming in and taking that bridge out
once we get all these other Bridges
[32:43] fixed uh that one's coming up perect and
it Road's going to be straight and
[32:48] Robert's aware that I want to put a
driveway there cuz you got to get enough
[32:52] line of sight there but that curve is
going to be gone too so that's what say
[32:56] I'm just adding One Drive driveway to
the to the again we appreciate your
[33:01] clarification when you're ready to
subdivide if this is approved by them
[33:06] you will have to come back to this body
to subdivide not the county that's
[33:10] correct every everything is I understand
that come back to here decision I've
[33:15] learned a lot in this
process we need to make a we need to
[33:20] make a
motion he would like to speak he would
[33:24] like to
speak I use Podium go get them
[33:31] than okay this this this all sounds
really good and Scott is your name my
[33:37] name is Bill Rogers 1660 South offer
Road thank you that's my wife you get
[33:41] you guys in a marriage you know
corrected so uh uh you know Scott's
[33:47] making this sound like a family deal uh
and I'm sure it
[33:51] is but the
neighbors are very concerned about
[33:56] setting a president here in our area
from the city limits of Kingston Springs
[34:03] to Davidson County Line there are 27
Property
[34:07] Owners there are approximately 25
property owners in web Bridge Road and
[34:11] Forest Road there are another eight
property owners in Anderson Road this is
[34:16] the area that our neighborhood
association is concerned with and and we
[34:22] try to keep each other involved in this
so it's not a lot of people and not a
[34:27] lot of property in that particular area
there is not one piece of property in
[34:33] all of
that that is one acre
[34:38] except down right on the city limits of
Mr Kell Moore's property he no longer
[34:42] owns it I don't think he's in the
process of selling it back in 2021 he
[34:47] had it rezoned he had a 5 acre track he
had one acre broken off of that and
[34:54] reson well if yall will remember 2021 we
were right in the middle of we couldn't
[34:59] uh uh I had to go online and streaming
with the county to to gripe it about
[35:04] things and that was really hard for me
to do it on online but uh we were in the
[35:10] middle of Co we were in the middle of
rezoning for the golf
[35:16] course uh we were in uh the the bridge
closing down which we fought for 3 years
[35:24] the Brush Creek Bridge we had no access
down the road at all when in other words
[35:30] what I'm trying to say is that one acre
was snuck through there I'm not saying
[35:37] intentionally but nobody knew that it
was happening so we can't use that one
[35:42] acre as a precedent for our Valley which
I know Scott would like to use that he
[35:49] said well listen we got it right down
the road one acre I'm I'm just saying we
[35:53] it can't be a president but if we agree
agree to this these two 1 acre tracks a
[36:00] driveway and a 2.59 acre track over here
which is going to a lot of that's going
[36:06] to be gone cuz it's going to straighten
the road
[36:08] out we're setting a president for our
area right now forever I've been there
[36:16] since the mid
70s 5 acres has been the prence there's
[36:23] a lot of people here tonight that live
on the 5 Acres that Mr Whitfield
[36:27] separated 50 something years ago and up
on Forest Neil
[36:34] Carter 5 acre tracks all through there
so we're a 5 acre precedent set Valley
[36:41] not one acre I cannot envision our
Valley with 150 1 acre tracks with a
[36:52] trailer or a house on it I just can't
Envision that at all it would destroy
[36:58] our area we're an agricultural area I
farm most of everybody here is horses
[37:06] cows chickens
something nobody lives on a one acre
[37:11] track the one that that was reone nobody
lives on it and uh uh it has been sold
[37:17] and I'm sure that it won't uh uh the
people that are buying are not build a
[37:23] house on it
um I just
[37:29] employ just begged y'all to not agree to
this one acre division right here it
[37:36] looks to me like if Scott wants to have
a family commune there which we have
[37:41] family communes in in our area it can be
done so many other different directions
[37:47] than putting one acre tracks on road
frontages now if he wants to put
[37:51] someplace to bury it's bless his heart
I'm sure it's Scott a way outlive me he
[37:57] can go back and put a 1acre track up on
the hill he's got a beautiful spot he
[38:01] overlooks the river right there it's a
be gorgeous Place why 1acre Track Road
[38:07] Frontage I can only suppose that it's a
nice place to sell someday and put a
[38:15] little house or a little trailer
on there's a lot of people here and I'm
[38:20] sure a lot of them would like to say
something but in order to cut
[38:24] time I would
suggest maybe that we have a raise of
[38:31] hands of people that are against this
and for
[38:36] it in the
[Music]
[38:46] group I don't know what our pres is on
that I said I don't know what our
[38:51] president hand
raised I mean if if I like to speak that
[38:59] yeah I know there are other people want
to speak but I know there are people
[39:02] here there's a lot of people in this
group that are against this sure and
[39:08] there's a lot of them that don't want to
say anything all right yeah we we can go
[39:12] ahead and do the show of hands for those
people that live in this area and have
[39:18] the 5 acre
tracks okay or more I would I would
[39:23] suggest since since we're talking about
this uh reason zoning to R1 that we have
[39:30] a show of hands of people that are for
the resoning of R1 or against the Reon
[39:35] or
one what else I mean that's what we're
[39:40] that's what we're talking about what
else would you like us to do I'm sorry
[39:45] well I that's just a suggestion it looks
to me like we we need to sort of stay on
[39:50] more than happy if anyone wants to speak
to this please feel free to come up and
[39:53] speak to it I I don't think that we
would have necessarily a democratic vote
[39:58] here per se given the people that are
here supporting you and your joy in
[40:03] being able to re meet with folks so uh
if anyone else wishes to speak please
[40:08] speak now thank you for I believe one
one more thing please I believe that if
[40:13] and I've been to aund of these meetings
there is that this has been done before
[40:20] of showing hands but anyway that's thank
you much problem with that thank you sir
[40:25] if someone else would like to speak
please come up give us your name address
[40:29] y my name is Amy lyson I'm at 192 Sugar
Hill Lane just off the Forest Drive so
[40:33] very similar area sure um I Echo Bill
Rogers
[40:38] 1,00% um it sets a precedence for other
land owners to do the same thing which
[40:42] we don't want in our Valley so I am
against the resoning sure my two cents
[40:47] great thank you I appreciate that anyone
else wish to speak I do sure
[40:57] my name is Todd Morton I live up on
webridge road and U this kind of a
[41:02] double-edged sword right here cuz if you
approve his I've got land on both sides
[41:08] of webridge Road and I've got 23 Acres
total I'll be glad to cut mine up and
[41:14] sell off lots and develop the heck out
of if his goes through I going to do the
[41:20] same
thing that's your privilege thank you
[41:23] sir anyone else wish to speak
I'm so
[41:29] sorry hello my name is Christiana
Harding my husband David and I live on
[41:34] for stride we moved to this community
specifically because of the regulations
[41:41] and Zoning that was in fact intact I
moved to Spring Hill in '94 when it was
[41:47] a stop sign one farmer sold a track to
land there was not protections built in
[41:54] that next
parcel Farm track did not want to live
[41:59] next to a neighborhood they sold someone
else died oh let's make some money and
[42:04] we all know what Spring Hill is today
and the lack of structure that the city
[42:08] you know is really struggling to keep up
with the traffic it's completely changed
[42:12] the landscape of things because there
was not this
[42:15] foresight we all know what a beautiful
area this is everybody wants to be here
[42:20] after Co everyone really wants to be
here the land value has escalated
[42:28] exponentially and we all moved here most
of us moved here I would say I
[42:33] specifically chose our seven and some
change acreage because we looked what
[42:39] are the setbacks there are minimums that
are on the properties it has to be x
[42:45] amount of a square footage home has 100
foot setbacks no trailers are allowed we
[42:51] specifically purchased these land our
land because of the
[42:55] protections want to say this is where we
want to die Scott and I want to know
[43:00] what it's going to look like I don't
want to see a strip mall down for me the
[43:04] last place I lived strip mall right down
the street I don't I don't want to see
[43:08] that I want to know all the neighbors
around me I want to know that we are
[43:12] invested in this community and if we
sell our land we are going to be
[43:17] respectful to the neighbors next to us
it's not about can we get away with it
[43:22] are we going to be respectful to our
neighbors to our community
[43:27] to the land that serves us are we going
to serve the land are we going to make
[43:31] the fast buck so I hope that we as a
community bond together do the right
[43:37] thing don't just look at that bottom
dollar look at what does this look like
[43:41] for our neighbors our scenery and how
are we protecting this for ourselves and
[43:45] for our children and our environment for
our farmers and those who would like to
[43:49] farm and keep agricultural I completely
understand the compound the family
[43:54] compound it's such a sweet thing we all
know of a family compound that didn't
[43:59] work out very well and the family hates
each other and it's a zoning nightmare
[44:04] they can't sell the properties or the
houses because they have locked
[44:08] themselves in so it's a pipe dream I'm
sure your family will hold together more
[44:12] tightly but
um you can use that as a
[44:18] motivator um you really have to look at
the long-term implications and the
[44:23] precedent I have Acres acreages all
around me
[44:28] and I know that if somebody moved the
next person would come in subdivide it
[44:32] put a trailer I know a neighbor here
wants to put do this and do that and
[44:36] it's just such a slippery slope so I
hope that we're all mindful this is our
[44:40] community once you give you cannot take
it back so really be careful think
[44:46] thoughtfully about what we're doing but
most importantly don't do what's right
[44:50] for just you do what's right for this
community and for your neighbors and
[44:54] that's what being part of this community
is about we have to we have to look out
[44:59] for each other thank you
[Music]
[45:02] good hello everyone my name is Evelyn
Rogers and my husband bill and I oh I
[45:09] live at we live at 1660 South harth Road
and a lot of you probably know where we
[45:13] live CU we have the beled galloways
black and white cows there and uh we
[45:18] bought our farm much to my dismay cuz we
were so poor and everything in
[45:23] 1978 and uh we um moved moved out here
15 years ago I know a little bit about
[45:29] real estate because I sold residential
real estate uh in and around uh the
[45:35] surrounding Nashville counties for 35
years and uh I actually have sold quite
[45:39] a few Parcels along South harth Road to
some of the people that are here tonight
[45:44] bill and I have about 70 Acres one of
the reasons we enjoy living here is the
[45:50] character of the neighborhood and the
lot size and I'm crazy about Scott and
[45:56] Michael and all but if their Scott's
request is granted I fear we can be in
[46:01] for a change and I'm opposed to Scott
summers's request to rezone his property
[46:07] because it violates our agricultural
zoning
[46:10] designation um we're supposed to have
five acres we know all that we've talked
[46:14] about this tonight um if you have four
acres you can do four acres if you have
[46:18] City water but four ACR like he has a 20
he has 20 acres he could say may have
[46:25] four maybe uh
um or five um 20 four five four or five
[46:31] acre lots if you wanted to and anyway
but all up and down South harpi Road uh
[46:37] except for the um Betsy scalin um lot
that was subdivided at 601 South
[46:43] harborth Road in April of
2021
[46:47] um they're they're all four or five
acres yes ma'am do you have do you have
[46:52] any additional information that we have
not yet heard that you'd like to share
[46:55] with us
[46:59] I do apprciate comments I do want to say
had several I do want to say this
[47:04] property owners have significant rights
but the rights are not absolute and as
[47:08] Christiana said what they have to
consider the rights of the neighborhood
[47:13] and I think this zoning change should be
denied thank you thank you appreciate
[47:17] your comments anyone else wish to
speak I don't know that I have much more
[47:22] to offer other than my family moved to
Kingston Springs about 5 and A2 years
[47:26] years ago because we wanted to be in the
country and we chose our lot because it
[47:30] was deeded at 5 1/2 acres and there were
um deed restrictions in the area that we
[47:36] bought I'm at 180 Sugar Hill Lane just
off of Forest Drive uh we have been
[47:40] dealing with bridge closures as been
mentioned and I wouldn't begin to tell
[47:43] Scott what to do with this property
other than there are um zoning plots
[47:48] already in place um the bridge at Brush
Creek has been closed on us um landowner
[47:54] bought it hadn't been up kept up and
Williamson County decided to adopt that
[47:59] bridge and it's going to be great when
it's done but my fear is the same as the
[48:03] others who have spoken we're on 5 Acres
we're raising a family there we love the
[48:07] area we love the fact that it's zoned as
a state uh and if if um this Genie is
[48:13] let out of the bottle on one acre lots I
don't know that you could ever get it
[48:15] back in thank you for your comments do
anyone else anyone else excuse me wish
[48:20] to speak I will sure if anything you can
add to it sir I I agree with all these
[48:27] people here in Bill Rogers especially I
um I live at 10 my name is Phil canedy I
[48:31] live at 1026 South Harford I got 33
Acres there I was born and raised on
[48:36] Charlotte Pike and I wanted to have
something out here that would be mine
[48:41] and I've worked it hard and I hope I
keep my place up looking good I think
[48:44] the world of Scott Summers and Michael
they're fabulous sure this weekend I
[48:48] went and looked at a farm Down leapers
Sport and this doctor friend of mine had
[48:53] it for sale for
3.7 he's would you give me
[48:58] two I said no he said I am hurting they
rezoned him and right straight across
[49:03] the street from his driveway he's got
two double wides sitting there cars
[49:07] jacked up on blocks beer cans for their
selling aluminum he's I have lost I said
[49:13] tell me I don't need it don't want imp
part of it sure so okay that's right it
[49:18] is a slippery slope deal yes sir we
appreciate right
[49:22] sure this yes ma'am
[49:31] hello hi um my name's Georgie Rigby um
and I live on PO POA Creek Road which is
[49:39] in the area um just literally near The
Covered Bridge um where South Harper
[49:46] thrs past it you know on the corner
there um I'm actually in one of the
[49:50] properties um which is 7 Acres um on the
farm where the family fell out
[49:58] so um uh this is not personal at all to
Scott um but uh we my my husband and I
[50:07] moved from England um three years ago
and we moved to Franklin and we spent a
[50:14] year you know looking for the most
idilic spot and it was it was almost as
[50:21] though we um we had found gold at the
end of the rainbow when we drove down
[50:30] south Hoth
Valley and we just thought this is for
[50:34] us I'm sure I'm sure do you have do you
have any comments we I think we all
[50:39] understand that you all appreciate the
athetics of where you are yeah we we
[50:43] bought it for the beauty the tranquility
and the peace and I think when spots are
[50:49] divided you know plots are divided into
smaller acreage um you can't stop that
[50:55] happening you know so it is a precedent
and you can't stop that happening so
[51:02] that's why we're here all right you know
thank you thank you we appreciate it
[51:06] anyone else have anything additional
that they'd like to add to our
[51:12] conversation okay thank
[51:18] you so we've heard a lot of comments um
pro and
[51:22] con I do have one question Mr chairman
um How is rezoning of only a portion of
[51:28] the property allowed versus rezoning the
entire property because we were going to
[51:32] be understand you had to reone the
entire property versus just a
[51:36] lots I will defer to our Planner on that
question I'm sorry I'm going to
[51:41] apologize to everybody out there my
hearing aids are in the shop so you're
[51:44] going to have to speak up you get to
yell at this is the only time here so
[51:48] they'll know who they're talking to so
my firm and I we've never heard get up
[51:52] there yeah if you'll go up here it be
easier John can capture you on the
[51:55] record
um my name is Alan Broner I work for
[51:59] chapline associates representing Mr
Summers here um we just had a few
[52:03] questions this is the first time we've
dealt with Kingston Springs in cheum
[52:06] county in this manner and we've never
heard of rezoning only a portion of the
[52:09] property we just wanted to know how
allowing only the lots to be rezoned is
[52:13] allowed versus rezoning the entire
parcel how is that allowed so that was
[52:18] the reason I apologize but that the
reason for submitting it for the whole
[52:22] thing to Beed so that this is the survey
that submitted the okay so so what you
[52:31] submitted versus what he has requested
summ are
[52:36] not and cohesive they're not the same
right if you don't well there there was
[52:40] a miscommunication between Mr Su and and
we just we just my firm wanted to find
[52:44] out how that was allowed because this
again this is the first time we've ever
[52:48] heard of doing it this way and would you
like for me to address that I would it
[52:52] happens every day okay and it happens
all over the county
[52:56] I have a couple of observations um I
don't have a personal feeling about this
[53:02] one way or the other I look at the rules
I look at the rags I make
[53:07] recommendations to them but there are a
few things that this audience is not
[53:11] privy to or may not have ever been
told the state of Tennessee is adamant
[53:17] about right
farm and they have 19 separate statutes
[53:23] that
regulate what we can do and how we can
[53:27] come to bear on agricultural property as
an example how many of you and I'm going
[53:33] to ask for a show of hands have any of
you are aware that I can own a farm well
[53:40] say my farm is 35 acres and I can build
as many houses on it as I want in order
[53:48] for my workers to have housing without
your consent without your control
[53:54] without your input farming in Tennessee
has a very specific definition it's 15
[54:01] Acres you have to Pro you have to
produce a salable crop the other thing
[54:07] that many people are not aware of
because the state is doesn't do a really
[54:10] good job of letting us know when they
pass new rules we just kind of find out
[54:14] ambling down the path
somewhere one of the other things that a
[54:18] lot of people don't understand is you
can't apply restrictions to agricultural
[54:23] land for setbacks your zoning ordinance
is
[54:27] useless the state statute is a real
simple five sentence statement you
[54:34] cannot apply zoning restrictions to
agriculturally used property
[54:42] period so the insulation that you used
to have is predicated on the pellet case
[54:47] that happened in hon County
Tennessee they started with the maze so
[54:52] they could earn extra money to feed the
farm you know School school children
[54:56] came and went through the corn maze they
had other activities where you learned
[55:01] how about farming and how it was done
which furthered the educational Outreach
[55:06] that the state adopted and then at some
point in Houston hon County depends on
[55:12] who you ask like live and L and here um
they decided to have music festivals to
[55:19] attract people to the farm so they could
consume their Farm to Table goods and
[55:23] the other things they were doing and the
neighbor next door was not a fan because
[55:29] it was loud I mean it was on stage big
speaker
[55:34] music it went all the way to the
Tennessee Appel at court where the Court
[55:38] ruled that music festivals were not
agricultural
[55:41] activity the legislature promptly
reconvened and declared that music
[55:47] festivals that attracted people to the
agricultural property in order to
[55:51] partake of the view in the Vista and
farming activi is now and allowed
[55:57] agricultural
activity so just a little history on
[56:02] zoning and agriculture for those of you
that live on farms farms in Tennessee
[56:09] require 15 Acres contiguous in order to
be a farm you have to produce something
[56:16] that is commercially merchantable
sailable it has to be at least
[56:22] $1,500 per year in order for you to qu
qualify as a farm you can put it in the
[56:28] green belt at 15 Acres but it's not a
farm unless it's a working farm so just
[56:34] so you know your state legislature
anytime somebody complains they
[56:38] reconvene a new law comes out there are
19 of them the Farm Bureau puts out a
[56:45] really comprehensive list of these
things so while I understand all of the
[56:51] comments about I bought it for peace and
Tranquility I'm going to ask my second
[56:56] show of hands how many of you were born
and raised in that
[57:03] area one two area what area K spring but
it's not really Rel your homes I'm just
[57:11] asking a
question no development existed at one
[57:15] point right because Native Americans
occupied the land they just migrated to
[57:19] another place where they needed to move
so every single structure building or
[57:24] use that occurs to today occurs because
someone else came to that place so while
[57:32] I
understand your IR I also understand
[57:36] it's a very difficult thing for
governments local governments with all
[57:39] the restrictions the state puts on us to
balance what you would like to see as
[57:44] opposed to your neighbor's property
rights to do what he wants to do it's a
[57:48] really difficult thing you heard me say
in the opening if you approve this
[57:54] you're setting a precedent
right that president has been set in
[57:59] every subdivision in this town every
subdivision in the county every time the
[58:05] county allows someone to subdivide off
the one acre with their house on it so
[58:09] they don't have to mortgage the farm to
build the house it happens consistently
[58:15] regularly and routinely this
body as it's very complex issue in front
[58:21] of them is a recommending
body I if if I were a betting person I
[58:27] would say regardless of the
recommendation the county is going to do
[58:31] what it wants we are a recommending body
we have no control over that Mr Summers
[58:36] has expressed on a public record that
this is for the purposes of Family
[58:41] Division so that his
children can live on that
[58:45] property the remaining 15 Acres remains
in the green belt which is an
[58:51] agriculturally driven taxing structure
in the state of Tennessee
[58:57] so if the county approves this
regardless of the input of this body and
[59:01] I don't know what their input's going to
be we have no control over that what
[59:06] then happens is the subdivision element
the actual dividing of the Lots comes
[59:11] back to this body because they have to
use our sub RADS and they're much
[59:15] stricter than the ones in the
county much stricter we require much
[59:20] more because it's an urban environment
with lots more people so while I
[59:25] understand the convers is taking
place if Mr Summers was operating a farm
[59:31] he would be able to put 20 migrant
houses on that farm if he needed to for
[59:34] his
workers if you're a family member you're
[59:38] Associated you can have a house if you
drive out of Springfield on your way to
[59:44] Kentucky you will see that occurring on
farms all over the place so while I
[59:49] understand it you came here from another
environment moved here for a particular
[59:54] lifestock
and you found your piece of land that
[59:59] provided you with that lifestyle but
they have to make a decision based on is
[1:00:04] this something that occurs in the county
and it
[1:00:10] does I have a question pardon you said
if the land
[1:00:15] is a farm right and that requires how
many acres 15 right if then then Mr
[1:00:23] Summers could
build any anything he wanted there
[1:00:27] because it would not be restricted as
many houses as he would like
[1:00:32] therefore therefore oper Farm that's
correct because he's not operating a
[1:00:37] farm he's not operating a farm he would
have to be operating a farm turning a
[1:00:41] making a were so I'm not I'm not leaning
one way the other I'm simply telling you
[1:00:47] that if someone owns 100 acres next
doorer a farm and they operate a farm
[1:00:53] they can build as many houses on as they
want the county has no control neither
[1:00:56] does the city the state does so I would
advise you there is a farm one moment I
[1:01:02] I see you I'll get to you in a second
okay thank you I I would advise you to
[1:01:06] go on the internet without my input look
up the Farm Bureau list of restrictions
[1:01:12] on local governments on Farm
property yes there was no there's
[1:01:17] gentleman in the back that wishes to
speak yes sir stand up please we need
[1:01:20] your name and address my name is Gus Ro
I'm
[1:01:24] 6337 and Road my question is if you own
20 acres in ch County can you build
[1:01:33] threee
houses you cannot unless you're farming
[1:01:38] unless you're farming how many houses
can you build on 20
[1:01:41] acres unless it's reson unless it's
reson you can't so you want to know I I
[1:01:47] don't have any idea as I said at the
start of this meeting the county
[1:01:51] recently updated their zoning
ordinance and has anybody looked at the
[1:01:56] County's ordinance CU I would advise you
to to look at it my confusion is I heard
[1:02:01] a lot about five acres correct in the
right
[1:02:05] now so if he's got 20 acres he's got 20
acres he could build 4 acre lots and he
[1:02:13] could build five houses today without
even
[1:02:19] coming well that's Mr Summer's decision
but we appreciate your point and
[1:02:22] understand it thank
you yes ma'am
[1:02:27] you raising your
[1:02:31] hand what what constitutes the F so what
how I'm sure there's a IRS tax basis
[1:02:38] what constitutes farming yeah
$1,500 15 Acres yeah minut just a minute
[1:02:45] the state definition of agricultural
activity M Mr Rogers if you'll give me
[1:02:50] just a second to answer I'm not saying
anything 15 continuous
[1:02:56] Acres producing a commercial crop in
other words it has to be a sellable crop
[1:03:02] of
$1500 per year which isn't a lot but
[1:03:07] it's
$1,500 um so that is the state
[1:03:11] definition a lot of people confuse green
belt or green space with farming but the
[1:03:17] state statutes are very clear on what
constitutes a farm so if you have
[1:03:24] multiple Acres I don't how many you have
but if you have chickens and you know
[1:03:29] you have cows or you have you know
whatever on that land you still do not
[1:03:34] qualify according to the state of
Tennessee as a farm because you have to
[1:03:38] have 15 Acres or $1,500 yes sir I don't
understand why we're even discussing
[1:03:44] this Farm he's not farming the The
Proposal here
[1:03:48] is to reone three lots two 1 acre lots
and a 2.59 acre lot understand that
[1:03:56] corre I don't even just I understand
that Miss Armstrong is instructing us on
[1:04:02] us Farmers on what we could do but it's
not relevant to what the decision that
[1:04:07] this commission has to
make your decision is whether we're
[1:04:12] going to rezone this to
R1 uh and leave the rest of it in green
[1:04:17] Bel which he we understand that we've
also allowed many people to speak on
[1:04:20] many subjects and we're okay it looks
like we got way off a track there I mean
[1:04:24] we were talking about building 50 Lots
on than you for thank you for your input
[1:04:29] Lauren I apologize but if I may the
reason that it came up is because a
[1:04:34] number of people stepped up and talked
about owning a farm and they thought
[1:04:38] within that owning a farm there was some
insulation that was afforded to them
[1:04:44] there's not what will you clarify I'm
sorry Sharon sure 15 acres and getting
[1:04:51] $1,500 of income salable income year
that is a f okay what is a green belt
[1:04:56] you have to have 15 greenen belt is land
that is reserved that is not going to be
[1:05:01] used for development which provides you
with a tax break because it's not being
[1:05:06] developed so those are not the same
thing there are tons of properties that
[1:05:11] are in the green belt that are not Farms
so while I understand Mr Rogers we have
[1:05:16] one issue before us today that is
correct but I wanted people to
[1:05:20] understand that when they're saying I
own a
[1:05:23] farm it's we also been 5 acre
track 5 acre track is is there anything
[1:05:31] that anyone contribute that will be
additional information to what we have
[1:05:36] already discussed yes you may so again
uh Mr Summers is only producing three
[1:05:41] lots two 1 acre lots and one 2.5 acre
lot and the rest is to remain in Green
[1:05:46] Belt which will be maintained as green
belt that 15 acres and the property will
[1:05:51] stay as it stands but I would also
profer Mr Summers and in that case would
[1:05:56] also be able to take that out of the
green belt that's a voluntary submission
[1:06:00] in a voluntary submission out the green
belt okay so you know there's no
[1:06:07] guarantee that property stays in a green
belt I
[1:06:12] mean the way I see it is he can do
anything he wants he's just going have
[1:06:16] to give that green Bel up so I mean if I
want to develop that land bad enough I
[1:06:20] would give it up I'm sure we can all
just have ideas of what what
[1:06:27] take and eat and be able to eat it to
that is one man's opinion thank you
[1:06:31] thank you I appreciate it I do
okay are we through with discussion does
[1:06:37] anybody else need to hear
anything okay unless other people have a
[1:06:41] comment discussion now is Planning
Commission only
[1:06:46] okay do appreciate everyone being
[1:06:51] here all right so if you recommend this
forward is in your growth area it's in
[1:06:58] your Urban growth
boundary so that's the first test that
[1:07:04] you have to have when you want to
subdivide property is it in the growth
[1:07:07] plan this is your extraterrestrial Urban
growth boundary around your city with
[1:07:12] the assumption that sometime with the
next 5 to CH years these properties will
[1:07:17] probably Annex into your city it's the
reason why some of the larger tracks
[1:07:21] were taken out when we redid it because
24 years nothing happened right so your
[1:07:28] second question is while you are a
question please sure where is the edge
[1:07:32] of the urban growth boundary Urban
growth boundary I'll have to get you a
[1:07:37] map but it's contingent to this area
um a lot of this area right it did not
[1:07:46] change REM our growth boundary was not
increased I'm sorry comment is
[1:07:55] yeah uh but the urban growth boundary
did not increase anywhere it decreased
[1:08:00] we removed the ranch hats for the reason
stayed earlier so it's the same Urban
[1:08:05] growth boundary it's been since 1999
when the maps were gone right if it's in
[1:08:10] your Urban growth boundary that's your
first test the second test is are you
[1:08:14] setting a precedent in a given area that
has not been previously
[1:08:20] set so your Urban growth boundary is not
your only consideration every single
[1:08:26] piece of property here at some point
with a
[1:08:30] bar right so while I understand the
argument the question for you
[1:08:36] becomes infrastructure so your
considerations are not while I have
[1:08:43] heartburn I move from where I used to
live because of development right I
[1:08:47] understand that but your questions are
can you support the traffic can you
[1:08:52] provide or can the county can the county
provide sufficient infrastructure fire
[1:08:56] suppression policing all the other
things that come with development and
[1:09:00] are you setting a precedent in this
area so the only way can we have access
[1:09:08] to a map maybe nope nope okay we're just
out of joh you been a big help
[1:09:15] today so the question for you becomes in
this area where people have expressed
[1:09:22] displeasure with the idea
[1:09:26] agriculture is defined as 15 Acres or
more
[1:09:33] contiguous for Farm use that's the state
law what's the definition for the green
[1:09:38] belt the same the green belt can either
contain um Comm harus it can contain
[1:09:46] agricultural property but the green belt
can also be granted because you have a
[1:09:52] an agreement with the state that you're
not going to develop that property leave
[1:09:55] it in natural state if you don't mind me
using yours you're adjacent to a flood
[1:10:00] area you have flood area on your
property we're a no build in the flood
[1:10:04] Area Community so you elected because
you
[1:10:08] cannot really develop it to put it in
and it would be inappropriate to offer
[1:10:14] for development because it's in a a
flood area so you placed it in the green
[1:10:19] belt which is appropriate because you
other than it's there you derive no
[1:10:24] useful benefit right and almost all land
use litigation is based on peaceful and
[1:10:29] useful enjoyment of your property so if
you can't use it so the people that have
[1:10:36] like a s and a half track 7 and A2 acre
track right is that a farm in the it's
[1:10:42] not a farm it is in the agricultural
Zone it is it is in an agricultural Zone
[1:10:47] because the county and this all started
once growth started becoming heavy mhm
[1:10:54] in this area and Tennessee the
discussion started taking
[1:10:59] place the county zones the property as
agricultural even though it doesn't meet
[1:11:07] the state definition which evolved over
a period of about 20 years but according
[1:11:13] to the county it is all agricultural in
that area the agricultural zone so the
[1:11:17] minimum make is there for a house is
five we have an r1a Zone if you have
[1:11:22] three acres you can keep horses which is
what we're looking at mhm but you still
[1:11:26] don't qualify as a farm as agricultural
activity
[1:11:32] okay any further discussion question no
I mean I think the one point that should
[1:11:37] be clarified is for everyone here no
matter what decision we make you're
[1:11:42] going to still have to go to the county
that's correct the county actually makes
[1:11:45] the decision that's the bottom line is
that the county will make that decision
[1:11:48] and then based on that if there's any
development at all it comes back here I
[1:11:54] unless you got something new to add a
question sure uh when it does go to
[1:11:59] County do they allow people to come to
speak into that is that open meeting
[1:12:05] will the county allow people to speak
into it when they when it goes to the
[1:12:08] county they do yes yes ma'am thank you
so much okay do you have to get on the
[1:12:14] agenda ahead of time I'm sorry agenda
you have to get on theenda ahead of time
[1:12:20] is what I'm asking County this will this
decision whatever it go to the and they
[1:12:26] will have to put it on the agenda
they're not real fans of public speaking
[1:12:31] at the county so they do require you
sign up ahead of time I don't know what
[1:12:35] the day is um I'm still trying to abort
their new zoning changes yeah okay all
[1:12:42] right we've had a lot of discussion
again appreciate everyone being here and
[1:12:45] being respectful in their comments we do
appreciate that very much
[1:12:51] so with all of that discussion do we
have a motion one way or the other
[1:12:56] unless they have any other questions you
have any other questions about
[1:13:00] it sounds like to me you're basically
trying to get these individual Parcels
[1:13:06] Parcels divided out for the purposes you
stated the the biggest difference is
[1:13:11] you're going from with the agriculture
area to where you could have either a
[1:13:14] four or a five at a minimum so now we're
looking at setting a precedence for
[1:13:19] being able to establish a one acre and
having a one acre is what everyone is
[1:13:24] upset about that is correct so I'm just
put all out there that summed up yeah an
[1:13:31] hour's worth of conversation
yes okay so do we have a motion one way
[1:13:35] or the
[1:13:39] other I got one other question we make a
motion so any of these properties that
[1:13:44] are not in the urban growth area are not
subject to coming to this board anyway
[1:13:49] for any change right for 1acre lot so if
they own property outside that they got
[1:13:54] to go to the county great is that
correct right and then the county has to
[1:13:58] decide they let you divide it less than
5 acres and the County's already set of
[1:14:03] Precedence to do this and but we have
not correct and he is at the edge of the
[1:14:10] city whereas for those of you that in
the county it's already a precedence to
[1:14:14] do it nothing that we can do not in our
area and we do not have within the city
[1:14:19] a purely agricultural Zone we have r1a
we don't have agricultural GES in the
[1:14:27] city so totally
different circumstance
[1:14:32] here but zoned are and we are only
recommending we are only recommending
[1:14:38] the county is going to make the decision
that the county is going to make that's
[1:14:41] correct at the County Commission not
their Planning Commission it doesn't go
[1:14:44] to their Planning Commission goes
directly to the County Commission so if
[1:14:47] we if we reject this idea today then he
can't even take it to the county for oh
[1:14:52] no he still go to the county still has
to still has to
[1:14:57] asking at the end of the day this is
much to do about nothing okay that's
[1:15:01] what I'm about 99% of the cases
regardless of the recommendations they
[1:15:06] res they do what they do just that's the
reality well it seems to me it's pretty
[1:15:13] much the County's decision anyhow it is
we're required by law to render an
[1:15:19] opinion so you can recommend either way
and that's true of your own City
[1:15:24] commission if the Planning Commission
makes a negative recommendation on a
[1:15:27] rezone oh yeah a majority of the City
commissioners can overturn
[1:15:32] it your recommendation is so you're a
recommending body
[1:15:38] only because the state says you have
[1:15:44] to I make a motion that we do not
recommend
[1:15:47] it I I just feel that that is an
agricultural area it's been that way
[1:15:56] um I don't I don't know whether I want
to set that precedence over there I
[1:16:02] second Okay so we've had a motion and a
second not to recommend resoning this
[1:16:09] area
from uh agricultural to
[1:16:15] R1 any further discussion Among Us roll
call for this one okay roll call vote
[1:16:21] please johnry
[1:16:25] Keith Al
[1:16:28] good I Tony Thompson is absent Tony
gross yes Mike harus so what what is the
[1:16:37] motion again the motion is that we will
not approve we will not rec deny to deny
[1:16:43] to deny yeah okay I got
you now you're waiting for me to vote
[1:16:49] right I I support that okay thank you
Hill
[1:16:55] I am supporting the
motion Mike P is absent Craig kit is
[1:16:59] absent mace bafford Hi l all
right okay sobody out there understands
[1:17:09] the motion was motion is Den
[1:17:18] unanimously
okay if that do stop you from taking it
[1:17:22] to the county
[1:17:25] stop you either four four houses on it
with five acres of P okay
[1:17:32] uh
discussion uh discussion of cord drill
[1:17:37] and letter sent by Mr mcperson
no voter formal action can be taken by
[1:17:42] the Planning Commission as a letter was
not received in time to advertise the
[1:17:45] request of the
applicant yes ma'am we discussed this
[1:17:49] briefly earlier um the Planning
Commission in November of last year ired
[1:17:55] Mr mcperson to do a cordr 13 locations
on site were identified uh most of those
[1:18:03] areas where where buildings would go or
in areas where fill was deposited
[1:18:07] outside of the approved grading
plan um he was also to furnish a lab
[1:18:13] report for what was in the ground and to
ensure that it was properly compacted we
[1:18:19] had two
complaints
[1:18:22] um and when I went to renew his grading
permit because it was time to do that it
[1:18:28] was expiring during that same period i
observed um construction demolition
[1:18:34] debris right
chimney uh Foundation materials that
[1:18:39] were made back in a generation with they
use from Malahide in the Cure I observe
[1:18:44] copper pipe PVC a number of other things
so at that point I issued as the
[1:18:52] regulations require immediate stop
because was outside the confines of his
[1:18:56] permit okay then the Planning Commission
gave him specific directions it is my
[1:19:01] understanding from the Geo technical
firm that hrill and the lab reports were
[1:19:06] completed some weeks ago right they have
not been provided to the city therefore
[1:19:12] we cannot do anything you have even and
this was not received in time to
[1:19:17] advertise it so it's not been advertised
this is discussion only that's why it's
[1:19:22] under discussion item so where we are we
give an update this is another standing
[1:19:27] item it stays on the agenda um you can't
take action the stop can't be lifted
[1:19:32] until the core report is received and
reviewed by the engineer and planning
[1:19:38] staff to make sure
that basically nothing changed right
[1:19:43] right
nothing other than you all received a
[1:19:49] letter project representative do I have
opportunity to
[1:19:53] speak so
Kyle Schneider uh engineer of record
[1:19:58] civil engineer um I cannot speak to the
soil report that is the geotechnical
[1:20:04] engineer right I've been made aware that
I believe it has been completed being
[1:20:08] reviewed and it should be submitted to
the city consultant engineer shortly for
[1:20:14] his
review um my discussion was on the
[1:20:19] February decision to not allow the
renewal of the Pud plans um if if I may
[1:20:26] I I apologize Mr Snider this is not on
the agenda tonight no consideration
[1:20:32] could be given to the plans until he
submits the cural report and it's
[1:20:38] reviewed by staff right and that was the
question that Miss spafford asked during
[1:20:43] that meeting is if he provides the core
report and comes out clean can he
[1:20:49] resubmit unfortunately his grading
permit and his plan approval occurred in
[1:20:53] the same month
because they were both approved in the
[1:20:56] same month so during that
meeting this body on staff
[1:21:02] recommendation for both the engineer and
the planner did not
[1:21:13] reapproved so while you may have this
discussion the only thing that can occur
[1:21:18] to cure the flaw for Mr mcferson is the
provision of that report so the only
[1:21:23] thing that I I'd like to say is that I
went back and listened to the February
[1:21:28] meeting there was contradictory
statements made by City staff uh City
[1:21:32] staff said that
the plans would expire 12 months after
[1:21:39] with no utility work being performed on
site the city staff said that plans
[1:21:45] would expire at the end of the month and
City staff said that the plans had
[1:21:49] expired so contradictory statements as
for the utility plans not having any
[1:21:55] work done on them for 12 months um City
staff had had their Consulting engineer
[1:22:02] send plans to myself and I had revised
those plans on September 22nd 2023 I'm
[1:22:08] sorry have to actually speak up it's the
consultant engineer uh sent me utility
[1:22:13] plans that needed to be revised uh
September of 23 less than 12 months ago
[1:22:20] so less than 12 months ago work was
being done on utility plans so as we see
[1:22:27] it the utility plans weren't up for
expiration anyways as the engineer
[1:22:33] record we had no notice that our plans
were expiring from City staff at all um
[1:22:40] Mr mcferson was notified
c as the engineer of record I'm I'm
[1:22:46] stating on public record we were not
notified I'm also stating that it was
[1:22:50] not 12 months from a stop work order to
when these plans expired you yourself
[1:22:57] were out on site a stop work order issue
Kyle you're conflating issues here and
[1:23:03] discussions the plans were approved by
the Planning
[1:23:07] Commission they have a two-year window
under the put agreement you said in the
[1:23:12] February meeting it was it was one
year I'm going to answer the question
[1:23:17] regardless those plans have a 2-year
window upon approval for substantial
[1:23:24] progress on construction to take place
he's still in the grading phase he has
[1:23:31] zero permits for
construction there are a number of
[1:23:36] articles on the lot there is piping on
the lot there's a number of other things
[1:23:41] on the lot none of them have been
installed none of them so the plant
[1:23:47] themselves may be impacted by what
happens with the grading plans and C
[1:23:52] drill I don't know what's in there fter
as anybody else what he's used for Phill
[1:23:59] so all of that if you weren't notified
Mr mcferson was notified well before the
[1:24:05] deadline for that to happen I believe he
was notified on February 1st or so and
[1:24:12] the meeting was February 9th I have an
email I don't necessarily have Mr M was
[1:24:17] notified this plans were coming up for
revision again you're confusing the
[1:24:21] grading permit with approved development
I'm talking about in the February
[1:24:26] meeting the Pud plans were denied
renewal that is correct those PUD plans
[1:24:33] shouldn't have been up for Renewal
anyway so they shouldn't have been up
[1:24:36] for expiration they you said it yourself
that utility work needed to be done
[1:24:42] within 12 months utility work was being
done up until August when he received
[1:24:47] the notice of violation no the grading
plan was being done grading and
[1:24:51] utilities go together they are not no
util have been installed on with all
[1:24:56] with all due respect yes they do you
cannot install utilities until you have
[1:25:02] your site
[1:25:05] graded as long as he is filling and he's
still
[1:25:10] filling the
property until he gets to final grade
[1:25:16] there have been pipes there and that was
the question I asked why have you not
[1:25:19] started the utility installation he said
I'm still taking in Soul until he
[1:25:25] accomplishes the rough grading and it's
signed off on he can't yes he is aware
[1:25:30] of that he is aware of that you issued a
notice of violation stop work order in
[1:25:34] August I went out the next day I did a
site inspection as requested right so
[1:25:39] one of your stipulations was the site
engineer needs to go out there and do a
[1:25:43] site visit the next day I went out there
and did a site visit you requested
[1:25:47] updated utility plans in September we
did that you requested updated grading
[1:25:53] plan we got that to you the only thing
he's lacking is the soil report yes he
[1:25:58] is still lacking significant that is
significant significant that's why he
[1:26:03] has a I myself I am not a soil engineer
is any members of Planning Commission
[1:26:07] soil soil
SCI with what's happening here speak to
[1:26:12] him about getting that report to us and
then we can all move forward we don't
[1:26:16] have to have this discussion all we're
saying is that we have been making
[1:26:20] progress with the site to take away the
renewal of the Pud plan essentially
[1:26:24] making us start from
zero was unfair and essentially uncalled
[1:26:30] for as we had been making progress on
utilities you had but we still don't
[1:26:35] have what we require to move forward and
until we have that we can't move forward
[1:26:39] and this conversation is
[1:26:43] moved while the soil the soil testing
was a stipulation of the notice of
[1:26:49] violation it had nothing to do with the
Pud plans you you you're you said it
[1:26:54] yourself in the February meeting these
are two separate issues they completely
[1:26:58] are but his PUD approval for the
preliminary plans was granted when uh
[1:27:05] sometime in 2022 I believe I'm sorry
sometime in 2022 I believe that is
[1:27:10] correct so it is up for Renewal they
chose as long as as long as work was
[1:27:16] being done on the site two years 2024 it
was up for Renewal and in February it
[1:27:23] was not
how how is progress being made if you're
[1:27:26] under a stop work order progress was
being the requested items the requested
[1:27:31] items were being you you had to fulfill
the requirements to get rid of the stop
[1:27:38] work order to make any progress on your
project yes the original soft work order
[1:27:42] had five or six items we had one item
remaining you had not met the
[1:27:46] requirements I don't know where where
this is going to arve you didn't make
[1:27:50] meet the requirements you could not be
making progress you're two years were up
[1:27:56] that's the bottom line that's where you
stand right now I hate it and we've
[1:27:59] already went through this whole soul
deal one other time we' spent a ton of
[1:28:04] time on this
project these this is where we are and
[1:28:09] that's what you have to meet I think for
it's important for our newer members of
[1:28:14] the Planning Commission to understand
the
[1:28:17] original approved plans there's still no
putt agreement because all of the items
[1:28:22] necessary to put a put agreement
together have not been the plan the
[1:28:27] or construction and the layout of this
development approved in February of
[1:28:35] 2022 they have a two-year window with a
request for Renewal you want to just
[1:28:40] have a recess so that folks that want to
go can
[1:28:44] go sit through this so
I Mr when I visited the site in order to
[1:28:53] bring this perm which is a warning perm
I
[1:29:04] ad put gas in clean it
up thank you all thank
[1:29:12] you you're fine you're fine thanks
everybody it's great to see democracy at
[1:29:19] workk good night night drive S Mr
mcferson was advised during the site
[1:29:27] visit for the renewal of his grading
plan that his preliminary plan approved
[1:29:32] in 2022 we're going to expire
in24 so he was advised of
[1:29:39] that okay there's a lot of language in
what you received that seems to indicate
[1:29:46] that he was not advised we're not
counsel that is absolutely not the case
[1:29:52] what he chooses to tell his development
staff is entirely up to him um but he
[1:29:58] was advised that that expiration date
was coming up we received two
[1:30:04] complaints those complaints were founded
right the Planning Commission gave him
[1:30:10] direction as to what to do to rectify
those complaints the core drill reports
[1:30:17] have not been
provided in February his P which he was
[1:30:22] advised of in November
were going to expire in February that
[1:30:26] was part of the conversation on the site
that day so there's no formal record an
[1:30:32] acknowledgement by Mr
mcferson that he screwed up that he
[1:30:37] shouldn't have done what he did what
you've been working towards is to
[1:30:41] rectify the additional point is it 61 or
91 Acres that he exceeded its ra I think
[1:30:48] it's 6 AC with Phil and
compassion that's in Green Space Not
[1:30:54] underneath building foundations as you
it is in green space not under building
[1:31:00] foundations SE his permit
period Then he was he had to go back to
[1:31:08] Tac I believe and submit yes in order to
get approval for that because the state
[1:31:15] requires you when you change the
configuration of your permit you're
[1:31:20] required to go back to the state in
order to get re-approval all of that was
[1:31:24] ongoing so at the night that the
discussion was held it was time to
[1:31:29] either renew or not renew the
preliminary set of plans and by the way
[1:31:34] this is the second set of plans for this
project the first set were approved
[1:31:41] everything was ready to go we were
working on the put agreement Mr mcferson
[1:31:45] changed his mind about what he wanted to
do right so without calling names the
[1:31:50] original complaint came from someone who
worked on the site
[1:31:55] the second complaint came from a planing
commissioner both were
[1:31:59] investigated this is our second pathway
down this I don't know whether the soul
[1:32:04] is suitable or not because I don't have
a report neither does the
[1:32:08] engineer Mr Snider also contacted the
city engineer this week to ask him about
[1:32:15] the stock worker and was told by the
city engineer to come back to planning
[1:32:20] because you are the approval body we
don't approve or deny plans this body
[1:32:26] does but you give recommendations to
until we get but I think You' discussed
[1:32:31] you disc that we all make our own
decisions yeah no absolutely I'm just if
[1:32:36] you want to end the conversation that's
fine the February meeting was unfair as
[1:32:42] this engineer of record I was not able
to be present you had a review of the
[1:32:48] engineering plans there um
again information presented in that
[1:32:56] meeting by Miss Armstrong made it
unclear why the plans were up for
[1:33:01] expiration in my opinion work was being
done on site yes Mr mcferson understands
[1:33:07] that work that was
overstepping um not uncommon on
[1:33:13] construction sites by the way not
uncommon that you go outside your limit
[1:33:17] of disturbance it's then it should not
be uncommon to be able to go ahead and
[1:33:21] correct that issue by going not it's not
common that a soil report is requested
[1:33:28] as well on a private development where
this the suitability of the soil
[1:33:35] ultimately if this site gets built has
no bearing on the city the city is not
[1:33:39] liable for it or anything no just the
people that live there just people that
[1:33:43] live there absolutely yeah yeah and the
people on the property just the people
[1:33:46] that live there their houses get to
crack and fall or they can have problems
[1:33:50] with rine or whatever just the people
that live there are affected by this
[1:33:53] other than that it doesn't matter and
whatever runs off of that property onto
[1:33:58] other property okay this is discussion
do we have anything else to add to it
[1:34:01] because this will be this will be on the
agenda next month right that's correct
[1:34:05] but I do want to make a couple
statements okay be brief before we end
[1:34:09] this just just for
clarity it is not unfair to issue a stop
[1:34:15] when someone for the second time on a
project is depositing bill that is
[1:34:20] unsuitable on a site the soul is not
supposed to be stored on phase one
[1:34:25] that's one of the restrictions and that
is where it was visible from the road
[1:34:30] that construction debris from a
demolished structure was on the site so
[1:34:35] again if his team is not notified it's
not the city's responsibility that's Mr
[1:34:44] McPherson's responsibility you cannot
move forward at this juncture until we
[1:34:50] get that report that you've required so
there's really nothing we can do tonight
[1:34:56] uh the work that's going on on the site
is survey work and other work that is
[1:35:00] required to update the set of plans for
the TAC submission in order to correct
[1:35:05] the permit it has zero to do with the
deadline that expired that he was
[1:35:13] informed
of those are the last comments that I
[1:35:17] have for the evening thank you for your
discussion thank you thank you thank you
[1:35:22] okay with that uh
is complete motion to
[1:35:27] adjourn second all in favor say I oppos
motion carries