[23:52] All right, it is 8:30 and so I'm going
[23:56] to call to order the council meeting of
[24:00] September 9th.
[24:02] Um,
[24:04] we have an agenda in front of us and I
[24:08] know
[24:10] One of our counselors is tied up at this
[24:12] moment and I'm going to guess that she
[24:13] might want to add something in council
[24:16] committee reports on kneehill housing.
[24:19] So I'm going to put a placeholder in
[24:22] there for her.
[24:24] So that' be 9.1.
[24:27] And I have an addition in close session
[24:31] um which will be 11.2 two
[24:34] intergovernmental relations uh under
[24:36] section uh 26
[24:40] when they access information.
[24:44] Any other Sure. Councelor Cunningham.
[24:47] >> I'll just add division five update
[24:49] » I'll just add division five update
[24:49] please for council and committee reports
[24:51] >> 9.2.
[24:52] » 9.2.
[24:52] >> Thank you.
[24:58] » Any others? Councelor Christie
[25:00] >> quick report on community futures
[25:05] community futures 9.3
[25:10] any other additions to the agenda uh
[25:13] deputy ei
[25:15] >> quick division one
[25:17] » quick division one
[25:17] report
[25:18] >> 9.4 Four
[25:20] » 9.4 Four
[25:20] division one
[25:26] 9.5 is harvest report
[25:30] which is foremost in all of our minds.
[25:34] Any other additions to the agenda?
[25:39] Council Christie.
[25:40] >> If not I'll move the agenda as amended.
[25:43] » If not I'll move the agenda as amended.
[25:43] >> Okay. Thank you for that. So I have a
[25:45] » Okay. Thank you for that. So I have a
[25:45] motion to approve the agenda as amended.
[25:49] All those in favor
[25:52] and that is carried unanimously. Thank
[25:54] you. The regular meeting minutes from
[25:58] August 26th were pre-irculated.
[26:02] Are there any um addition or any
[26:06] corrections? Any comment on those?
[26:16] If not, would someone care to move their
[26:17] adoption? Councelor Penner,
[26:20] >> I'd move the approval of adoption of the
[26:23] » I'd move the approval of adoption of the
[26:23] minutes of the August 26, 2025 regular
[26:25] council meeting as presented.
[26:26] >> Okay, thank you for that. So, we have a
[26:29] » Okay, thank you for that. So, we have a
[26:29] motion to approve the council minutes
[26:31] from the August 26th meeting as
[26:34] presented. All those in favor?
[26:38] And that's also carried unanimous. Thank
[26:40] you.
[26:42] The first item in our agenda this
[26:44] morning and she pre-warned us that she
[26:48] was coming is 5.1.1
[26:51] which is policy 51 review of planning
[26:54] and development fees and welcome
[26:59] arb Hazelton
[27:01] and anytime you're ready.
[27:03] >> Good morning Reeve members of council.
[27:05] » Good morning Reeve members of council.
[27:05] So just as part of the normal rotation
[27:07] for reviewing policies, this is being
[27:09] brought to council with a couple of
[27:11] minor changes for your review. This
[27:14] policy was put in place to ensure a
[27:16] consistent approach to processing
[27:18] applications and any refunds that might
[27:20] be provided based on where the
[27:22] application is in the process. This
[27:24] policy was last reviewed by council in
[27:26] May of 2021. We have removed one clause
[27:30] under refunds and revised the clause
[27:32] following it which now notes refunds or
[27:34] partial refunds for the applications
[27:36] that have gone through the majority of
[27:38] the process would require the approval
[27:39] of the CAO or designate. We have also
[27:42] made some formatting changes to the
[27:44] numbering in the policy and it should be
[27:46] noted that we rarely refund application
[27:49] fees. It's not something that comes up a
[27:51] lot. Um, one other item that I missed
[27:54] before it got into the package. So on
[27:57] the original policy number nine where it
[28:00] says permitted use development permits
[28:02] that are withdrawn before the permit is
[28:04] issued will receive a full refund and I
[28:06] missed that point in the new policy. So
[28:10] I just want to swap that one over as
[28:12] well but other than that um
[28:16] it's
[28:18] what we're proposing.
[28:21] So you're suggesting there would be
[28:23] under refunds then there'd be a 0.5
[28:25] which would basically say correct
[28:27] exactly what 0.9 says in the old policy.
[28:30] >> Yes. Correct.
[28:31] » Yes. Correct.
[28:31] >> Okay.
[28:36] » Or somewhere in that number.
[28:38] >> Yes.
[28:40] So, any questions
[28:42] uh for planning with regard to this
[28:46] proposed new uh reddraft of the planning
[28:49] and development fees and refunds policy?
[28:53] >> Yes, councelor Popes, please.
[28:55] » Yes, councelor Popes, please.
[28:55] >> Just curious to the feedback from the
[28:57] » Just curious to the feedback from the
[28:57] public when um they come in to do the
[29:00] process and then it gets denied and they
[29:02] don't get their funding back. So has
[29:04] there been a lot of push back from
[29:06] >> No, people are aware of that upfront. So
[29:09] » No, people are aware of that upfront. So
[29:09] it's it's gone through the process.
[29:11] We've done all the work. So it's
[29:14] >> perfect. Thank you.
[29:14] » perfect. Thank you.
[29:14] >> We've never even had anyone ask I don't
[29:17] » We've never even had anyone ask I don't
[29:17] believe for that funding.
[29:23] » Any other questions or comment?
[29:29] » Counc
[29:31] nothing to do with this. This is just to
[29:32] do with your department and kudos to you
[29:34] guys because it's everything we hear is
[29:35] very positive when it comes to planning.
[29:37] I've never heard a negative um to do
[29:39] with planning to be honest with you with
[29:41] with the ladies and the gentlemen now.
[29:43] Um so thank you for making our job
[29:46] easier.
[29:47] >> Thank you.
[29:50] » Thank you.
[29:50] >> You probably don't hear that from us
[29:51] » You probably don't hear that from us
[29:52] very often that you're making our job
[29:53] easier,
[29:56] >> but you do.
[29:58] » but you do.
[29:58] Penner is correct.
[30:03] Okay. If there are no questions or
[30:04] comments, I would look for a motion to
[30:07] um approve the proposed policy
[30:12] uh 5.1.
[30:17] Deputy Reed McGee,
[30:20] >> I move that we approve the draft policy
[30:22] » I move that we approve the draft policy
[30:22] 5-1 with the amendment mentioned.
[30:26] >> Okay.
[30:29] » Okay.
[30:29] So we have a motion to approve uh draft
[30:32] policy 5.1
[30:35] um as amended. So that's planning and
[30:38] development fees and refunds.
[30:40] Any further question or comment?
[30:45] Not I'm going to ask a question. All
[30:46] those in favor
[30:49] and that is carried unanimously. Thank
[30:51] you Miss Hazelton.
[30:55] Next in our agenda is 5.1.2
[31:00] which is a request to amend land use by
[31:03] law county residential district and
[31:07] welcome Miss Kever.
[31:09] >> Good morning.
[31:11] » Good morning.
[31:11] >> Good morning. Um, Michael and Stephanie
[31:13] » Good morning. Um, Michael and Stephanie
[31:13] Beach had applied to amend land use
[31:14] bylaw 1808 by adding a new discretionary
[31:17] use to the country residential district
[31:19] that they wish to add M greenhouse
[31:21] seasonal to the country residential
[31:23] district in which they reside. A new
[31:25] definition was also drafted to match the
[31:27] use. The applicants were unaware when
[31:29] they purchased their property that a
[31:31] greenhouse which was selling flowers and
[31:33] other products were doing so without any
[31:34] applicable permits. Under the MGA,
[31:37] applications to amend the land use bylaw
[31:39] requires a public hearing to be held
[31:41] prior to adopting the bylaw. First
[31:43] reading of this proposed bylaw amendment
[31:45] was given on July 22nd, 2025. This was
[31:48] the mechanism for getting the
[31:49] application in the queue. All
[31:51] information and questions regarding the
[31:53] application were brought forward to the
[31:54] public hearing held on August 26, 2025.
[31:58] And as per the MJ, council must hear any
[32:00] person or group of people who claim to
[32:02] be affected by a proposed bylaw. Any
[32:04] land owner who feels they will be
[32:06] impacted by a proposed development
[32:08] either positively or negatively has the
[32:10] opportunity to come and speak about the
[32:12] matter directly at the public hearing.
[32:14] Affected parties could also submit their
[32:16] comments in writing. It should be noted
[32:18] at this time also that no letters in
[32:20] opposition were received. As council
[32:23] reviews and discusses the content of the
[32:24] public hearing, it can approve, amend,
[32:26] or defeat the proposed bylaw.
[32:28] Participating in the public hearing is
[32:30] the legislative method to provide your
[32:32] comments to council for consideration.
[32:34] Once a public hearing is closed, no
[32:35] additional information should be
[32:36] considered in the decision-making
[32:38] process. This amendment is about adding
[32:40] a discretionary use. It is not a permit
[32:42] to develop. If successful in their
[32:44] application, specific details regarding
[32:46] the development will be required to be
[32:48] submitted and approved by the municipal
[32:50] planning commission. The applicant has
[32:53] indicated as per their letter of intent
[32:54] they purchased this property unaware
[32:56] they would not be able to operate a
[32:57] greenhouse for two months of the year.
[33:00] Administration is proposing the land use
[33:02] bylaw amendment as an opportunity for
[33:03] council to consider this additional use
[33:06] which would allow the applicant to
[33:07] continue using the existing facilities
[33:09] on a seasonal basis not to exceed 3
[33:12] months as per the definition for a
[33:13] greenhouse seasonal.
[33:19] » Okay, thank you for that miss. Are there
[33:21] any questions for the planner regarding
[33:25] this
[33:26] addition of
[33:29] discretionary use
[33:39] » deputy McGee?
[33:44] I'd like to make the motion that council
[33:45] give second reading of proposed bylaw
[33:47] 1923 for the purpose of amending land
[33:50] use bylaw 1808 by adding greenhouse
[33:52] seasonal to the discretionary uses in
[33:55] the country residential district.
[33:59] >> Okay, thank you for that. So, we do have
[34:01] » Okay, thank you for that. So, we do have
[34:01] a motion um to provide second reading to
[34:06] the proposed bylaw of 1923
[34:08] [Music]
[34:10] uh for the purpose of amending the land
[34:11] use bylaw 1808 by adding M greenhouse
[34:16] seasonal to the discretionary uses in
[34:18] country residential district.
[34:21] Any further discussion?
[34:24] Okay, I'm not seeing any. I'm Oh, sorry.
[34:27] Councelor was just a question. In this
[34:31] instance, we're giving them two months.
[34:34] Um, is there an opportunity for this?
[34:38] Sorry. Go ahead.
[34:39] >> Oh, sorry. Through the chair. The
[34:40] » Oh, sorry. Through the chair. The
[34:40] definition says three months.
[34:42] >> Okay. But they're looking at two months.
[34:45] » Okay. But they're looking at two months.
[34:45] Okay. So, we're going to make the
[34:46] decision on which three months or they
[34:49] they pick the three months.
[34:50] >> They they can pick the three months.
[34:52] » They they can pick the three months.
[34:52] It's going to be a little hard to police
[34:55] and enforce. I I hope um we just won't
[34:59] have to worry about that. I I guess one
[35:02] comment was um brought up
[35:06] it doesn't have to be consecutive. So if
[35:07] they have a really good strong two
[35:09] months and then they wish to sell
[35:11] poinsettas in December, you know, that'd
[35:13] be a monthish like um we're not going to
[35:17] be going 90 days exactly, but hopefully
[35:20] we can use our discretion. And then also
[35:23] if we did, it is complaintbased. So, if
[35:26] we did receive complaints that, oh, no,
[35:28] they're like six months of the year.
[35:30] Well, then we would have to look at it
[35:31] again.
[35:32] >> Okay. No, that's just what I was trying
[35:34] » Okay. No, that's just what I was trying
[35:34] Oh, sorry.
[35:36] >> Go ahead.
[35:36] » Go ahead.
[35:36] >> I I was just trying to determine if it
[35:38] » I I was just trying to determine if it
[35:38] had to be consecutive or if you could
[35:41] split it up. So, you've answered my
[35:43] question. Thank you.
[35:47] » All right. Is there any other comment or
[35:49] question uh with regard to the motion to
[35:52] give second reading to proposed bylaw
[35:55] 1923 for the purpose of amending land
[35:58] use bylaw 1808
[36:00] by adding m greenhouse seasonal to the
[36:03] discretionary uses in country
[36:05] residential district?
[36:09] If there's not I'm going to call the
[36:10] question. All those in favor
[36:13] and that is carried unanimously. Thank
[36:16] you. Council
[36:18] Witstone,
[36:21] I would move the council give third
[36:23] reading to bylaw 1923 for the purpose of
[36:26] amending land use bylaw 1808 by adding M
[36:30] greenhouse seasonal to discretionary
[36:33] uses in the county res county
[36:35] residential district.
[36:38] Okay, thank you for that.
[36:41] All right. So, we have a motion from
[36:43] councelor Witstock that we give third
[36:45] reading to bylaw 1923,
[36:48] which is basically adding greenhouse
[36:51] seasonal to discretionary uses in the
[36:54] country residential district. Any
[36:57] further discussion?
[37:00] Okay, I'm not seeing any, so I'm going
[37:01] to call the question. All those in
[37:03] favor?
[37:05] And that is also carried unanimously.
[37:08] Thank you, Miss Kever. I also know that
[37:11] you're not leaving us just yet because
[37:13] you are also taking 5.1.3
[37:16] which is direct control district 2 42-
[37:21] no sorry 2-42
[37:25] 4247-25
[37:27] oh my goodness D-B
[37:30] rear yard setback varants. So anytime
[37:33] you're ready. That's quite a mouthful.
[37:35] >> Yes it is.
[37:38] » Yes it is.
[37:38] Uh, Lidell Juke has applied for 40% rear
[37:41] yard setback variance for the proposed
[37:43] construction of a new garage within a
[37:45] portion of the southeast of 272820
[37:48] plan 1000965
[37:50] block 1, lot one. The location of this
[37:53] proposed is within the direct control
[37:55] district 2. This parcel of land was
[37:57] reszoned to direct control in order to
[37:59] accommodate the subdivision of an
[38:00] additional parcel not allowed within the
[38:02] planning documents at that time. As per
[38:05] land use bylaw 18081064C,
[38:08] the municipal planning commission shall
[38:10] review development proposals within a
[38:11] direct control district and provide
[38:13] comments and recommendations that will
[38:15] be forwarded to council. A garage
[38:17] accessory building is a permitted use in
[38:19] the DC2. However, variances over 20%
[38:22] require municipal planning commission
[38:23] approval. This application was brought
[38:26] to the August 28th MPC meeting and was
[38:28] approved with conditions. The DC2 direct
[38:32] district development standards are to be
[38:34] determined by council or its delegate.
[38:36] In this case, since the zoning of this
[38:38] parcel was zoned agriculture prior to
[38:40] the zoning of DC2, and they are the most
[38:42] relevant standards for this parcel and
[38:44] situation, the agricultural district
[38:46] sighting regulations were recommended.
[38:49] The rear yard setback in the egg
[38:51] district is 7.6 6 m or 25 ft and the
[38:54] landowner wishes to construct a new
[38:56] garage 4.57 m or 15 ft from the rear
[39:00] property line. The reasons for the
[39:02] request are due to the location of the
[39:03] septic tank and treatment mound as well
[39:05] as a mature stand of trees. The
[39:07] accessory building is being proposed on
[39:09] the north side of the yard site where
[39:10] two smaller buildings previously were
[39:12] situated.
[39:14] Since this application has already been
[39:16] recommended for approval by the
[39:17] municipal planning commission, it is
[39:19] assumed that council will approve with
[39:21] conditions which are attached and the
[39:23] adjacent land owner to the north had no
[39:25] objections to this relaxation.
[39:31] » Okay, thank you for that.
[39:34] Are there any questions for Miss Kever
[39:39] regarding the application for the
[39:41] variance
[39:43] in this direct control district?
[39:50] » Okay. Then what's the wish of council?
[39:56] » Councelor Christie. I'd make the motion
[39:58] to approve application 4247-25-d
[40:03] for the 40% variance from the rear yard
[40:05] setback for a proposed accessory
[40:07] building with conditions attached.
[40:11] >> Okay, thank you.
[40:16] So, we do have a motion that um we
[40:20] approve the application 4247-25-D
[40:26] for 40% variance from a rear yard
[40:29] setback for a proposed accessory
[40:32] building which is a garage
[40:35] with conditions and the conditions are
[40:38] listed in the RFD and those are the
[40:42] conditions that were approved by the
[40:44] municipal planning commission.
[40:46] >> Correct.
[40:48] » Correct.
[40:48] >> The applicant has already um received
[40:50] » The applicant has already um received
[40:50] approval from Alberta Transportation
[40:52] Economic Corridors as well.
[40:53] >> Okay. Thank you for that. Any further
[40:57] » Okay. Thank you for that. Any further
[40:57] discussion or questions regarding the
[40:59] motion to approve?
[41:04] If not, I'm going to call the question.
[41:06] All those in favor
[41:09] and that is carried unanimously. So,
[41:12] thank you, Miss Kever.
[41:14] Um,
[41:16] appreciate your assistance this morning.
[41:22] All right. The
[41:25] next item in our agenda
[41:28] is 5.3.1,
[41:31] which is RCMP versus fire hockey game
[41:35] support.
[41:36] Um, and Mr. Ganon, I'm going to assume
[41:40] that you're taking Miss Knight's place
[41:44] and that you're going to make this
[41:46] presentation.
[41:48] >> Uh, good morning, council. Yes, I am.
[41:49] » Uh, good morning, council. Yes, I am.
[41:49] Thank you very much. Uh the manager uh
[41:52] um provides her regrets for not being
[41:54] able to be here today. Uh but
[41:56] regardless, we're excited to present
[41:58] this to council for an opportunity. Um
[42:02] the RCMP detachment has hosted
[42:04] fundraisers in the past and and
[42:07] specifically in 2023 at the local uh
[42:10] group uh with a hockey game between the
[42:12] RCMP and fire departments. These are
[42:14] synonymous around a lot of communities
[42:17] and bring a lot of great people
[42:18] together. an opportunity of fun and
[42:21] engagement within the communities.
[42:24] Knowing this, the fundraiser is being
[42:26] kicked off again by the Three Hills
[42:28] Detachment. Uh but they've invited all
[42:30] the other departments to participate to
[42:33] ensure that it is kind of a countywide
[42:36] aspect and be able to bring everybody
[42:38] together. So, it was really nice of them
[42:40] to actually take the initiative and then
[42:42] look at this. uh the fire chief's
[42:45] committee uh uh meeting held in August.
[42:48] Actually, the chiefs have requested if
[42:51] Neihill County could actually sponsor
[42:53] this and a way to provide hockey jerseys
[42:56] uh with all the departments within the
[42:58] with the logo that you see within the
[43:00] report. This logo was designed and
[43:03] worked with for uh the stair climbing
[43:06] event which was which the county
[43:07] participated in uh which was great for
[43:10] the team. It's good for team building
[43:12] and it's good for the county to get
[43:14] recognition in other communities just to
[43:17] show how these great people work uh and
[43:19] provide services for us. So with that um
[43:24] we're always in favor with
[43:26] administration on providing that
[43:28] opportunity to come forward and
[43:30] promotion and creating that teamwork
[43:32] aspect uh as it is important in these
[43:35] type of roles and functions. The
[43:38] fundraiser this year I want to point on
[43:40] is for Kneeh Hill kids sports being held
[43:43] October 22nd at 7:30 at the Three Hills
[43:46] Arena.
[43:48] Um the the sponsor for the firefighting
[43:51] teams with the jersey for annual use.
[43:54] So, we're looking at a annual
[43:56] opportunity to do this and we'll
[43:58] incorporate it into our budget to ensure
[44:00] that it is covered and it's a minor cost
[44:04] I believe um for what's actually being
[44:07] proposed. So, at this time they're
[44:09] looking for uh an estimated $2,000 range
[44:12] for the jerseys and they'll be replaced
[44:14] depending on wear and tear. I've seen
[44:17] this operate in many different ways in
[44:19] different communities. A lot of times
[44:21] they'll make jerseys every year and then
[44:23] they'll change them a little bit every
[44:24] year to make them more about the event
[44:27] and it creates people a keepsake to take
[44:30] home with them that they participate in
[44:32] things like this. How the team is
[44:34] looking at this right now is actually to
[44:36] reuse the jerseys every year and replace
[44:38] them on wear and tear and and those type
[44:40] of items. So, at this moment, council
[44:44] has the opportunity to uh approve the
[44:46] purchase and this program moving forward
[44:49] um for $2,000. Um
[44:53] and if there's any other questions, I
[44:55] can do my best to answer them. Uh
[44:57] obviously, this initiative was uh
[44:59] pronounced at the fire chief meeting. I
[45:01] wasn't present, but I I have uh um been
[45:04] given a briefing and and hopefully I can
[45:06] provide you some additional
[45:08] clarification should you require it.
[45:11] Thank you, Mr. Ganon. Are there any
[45:13] questions for Mr. Ganon regarding this
[45:16] request for support?
[45:20] Councelor Phobes, please.
[45:22] >> Will the Nehill County logo be on the
[45:24] » Will the Nehill County logo be on the
[45:24] jerseys?
[45:26] >> Thank you. Uh through the chair, if you
[45:28] » Thank you. Uh through the chair, if you
[45:28] look at the logo that's up there, uh on
[45:31] the actual presentation, it shows all
[45:33] fire departments. So, it says NHL County
[45:36] Firefighters. Instead of stair climbing
[45:38] team, it will actually have hockey team
[45:40] on it. Um, but all those individual
[45:43] logos are on it.
[45:44] >> Thank you.
[45:49] » Okay. Any further questions
[45:52] um or discussion related to the request
[45:56] that's in front of us?
[46:01] Uh, Councelor Penner, please.
[46:02] >> I just comment. that I have seen this
[46:04] » I just comment. that I have seen this
[46:04] done in, you know, what this event, you
[46:06] know what I mean? I think it's great
[46:07] that they work together and whatnot. I
[46:09] could get behind this um for a one time
[46:11] um where they reuse the jerseys. I think
[46:13] that's uh that's my opinion. Um just a I
[46:16] can make it a motion, but I just want to
[46:18] make sure the rest of council is fine
[46:20] with that.
[46:24] So, basically what we would be approving
[46:26] at this point is a one-time
[46:30] $2,000 maximum $2,000
[46:33] um from the protective services
[46:36] operating budget. Correct, Mr. G?
[46:38] >> Uh correct. There's there's also the
[46:40] » Uh correct. There's there's also the
[46:40] opportunity if you want or if you if
[46:43] council should uh should choose that we
[46:46] could do this annually. We believe that
[46:47] this is going to be an annual event and
[46:49] should it be an annual event, we can
[46:51] actually put it in the budget for
[46:52] consideration for future years. We do
[46:55] have available budget space to cover
[46:56] this year's amount. So, um the current
[46:59] budget will absorb can absorb the cost
[47:03] for the remainder of the year. Um so
[47:05] there's multiple choices. If you give
[47:07] administration the authority to do this
[47:10] on a yearly basis should it come up,
[47:12] we'll ensure it's in the budget. Uh, and
[47:14] if it doesn't participate, it just goes
[47:17] back into um, uh, the surplus.
[47:23] » Okay. Any other discussion? Um, comment.
[47:28] Councelor Phobes, please.
[47:29] >> I'm in favor of what you're saying as
[47:31] » I'm in favor of what you're saying as
[47:31] well. Um, councelor Penner, I would like
[47:33] to see it yearly. Let the new council
[47:35] decide if that should be something in
[47:36] the new budget coming forward.
[47:39] >> Okay. Thank you for that.
[47:43] » Okay. Thank you for that.
[47:43] Go ahead, councelor Penner.
[47:44] >> Um, today we're just looking at the
[47:46] » Um, today we're just looking at the
[47:46] jerseys, correct? And that should
[47:48] that'll cover a set of jerseys, what
[47:50] you're saying. Um,
[47:51] >> yes,
[47:52] » yes,
[47:52] >> absolutely. We should support this event
[47:54] » absolutely. We should support this event
[47:54] going forward, but it may only be a
[47:56] couple hundred dollars going forward or
[47:57] whatever, whatever the event is, you
[47:59] know. Um, I don't think that Miho County
[48:01] needs to be the only one on the hook for
[48:04] this. So, um, so here today, um, I would
[48:07] make the motion that we approve
[48:10] purchasing hockey jerseys for the NIH
[48:12] firefighter team for the RCMP versus the
[48:15] fire hockey game versus fire hockey game
[48:18] fundraiser to a maximum of $2,000 with
[48:21] funds from the protective services
[48:23] operating budget.
[48:25] >> Okay. Thank you, councelor Penner. Are
[48:27] » Okay. Thank you, councelor Penner. Are
[48:27] there any comments? Deputy Reed McGee.
[48:31] I'm I'm concerned about us putting in
[48:32] that it's for the fundraiser because I'd
[48:34] like to see these jerseys to be used for
[48:36] whatever might come up.
[48:39] Um so I'm I'm not sure what we want to
[48:42] do with that, but I understand that's
[48:44] the intent that they're not going to be
[48:46] used for this one event. Correct.
[48:49] >> Uh through the chair. So it it does open
[48:51] » Uh through the chair. So it it does open
[48:52] opportunities depending on other
[48:53] fundraising opportunities and I think
[48:55] that protective services can work with
[48:57] the fire departments and work on how
[49:00] they're going to be reallocated or
[49:02] reused for um different events
[49:05] potentially. Um the and that may be the
[49:08] strategy that we can go forward instead
[49:10] of saying hockey team on it. We can
[49:12] actually just leave that blank. So
[49:14] should they choose for a different
[49:15] event, it actually can be used for those
[49:17] different events.
[49:20] >> I'd be much more comfortable with that.
[49:24] » Those are better.
[49:25] >> Um I I like that idea. I mean, they
[49:27] » Um I I like that idea. I mean, they
[49:27] could put in a curling team or something
[49:28] like that. They could wear them, you
[49:30] know. So sure, not that it's part of the
[49:32] motion, but I like your idea. Thank you.
[49:37] Any
[49:40] other comment
[49:42] McGee?
[49:43] >> So I I just when it comes to voting, I'd
[49:47] » So I I just when it comes to voting, I'd
[49:47] be much more comfortable if we took out
[49:49] for the firefighters
[49:53] fundraiser. So um purchase hockey
[49:56] jerseys for the Mihill firefighters
[49:57] team. Period.
[50:03] » Well, it does say for the hockey game
[50:05] and other
[50:07] Okay, that's good. Y
[50:11] >> thanks for the change. Yeah.
[50:13] » thanks for the change. Yeah.
[50:13] >> So I think with the change it
[50:16] » So I think with the change it
[50:16] expresses that it's for more than
[50:28] » so council Penner is the motion is now
[50:31] that council approve purchasing of
[50:33] hockey jerseys for the kneehill
[50:34] firefighters team for the RCMP versus
[50:37] fire hockey game and other uses to a
[50:40] maximum of $2,000.
[50:43] with funds from the protective services
[50:45] operating budget.
[50:47] You okay with that?
[50:51] >> Okay. All right. Any further discussion
[50:54] » Okay. All right. Any further discussion
[50:54] or comment related to the sponsorship
[50:58] that's being proposed here and the
[51:01] motion?
[51:05] So, I'm not seeing any. So, my
[51:07] assumption is that you're ready for the
[51:08] question. So I'm going to say all those
[51:11] in favor.
[51:13] There are none. So it's carried
[51:15] unanimously.
[51:16] >> Thank you, Mr. Ganon.
[51:18] » Thank you, Mr. Ganon.
[51:18] >> Okay, we have a delegation at nine. So
[51:22] » Okay, we have a delegation at nine. So
[51:22] I'm going to say we're in recess for 3
[51:24] minutes to allow whatever setup needs to
[51:26] take place for that delegation
[51:31] uh to be here.
[54:56] So, it's 9:01 and I'll call our meeting
[54:58] back to order. At this point, we have a
[55:00] delegation and um our presenter is um
[55:05] Dr. Am I correct? Dr. Blake Schaefer.
[55:09] He's an associate professor of economics
[55:11] at the University of Calgary and a
[55:13] co-director of the net zero electrics
[55:17] electricity research initiative
[55:20] and co-director of Canadian energy
[55:23] modeling hub. Wow, sounds like you're a
[55:26] busy man. Uh so welcome uh Dr. Schaefer.
[55:30] Appreciate you coming today and we look
[55:32] forward to hearing what you have to say
[55:33] about um our electric system. Um before
[55:37] I get you started on your presentation,
[55:39] I will allow council and uh members of
[55:43] administration to introduce themselves
[55:45] to you so you're kind of aware of who
[55:47] you're chatting with this morning. So
[55:49] councelor Cunningham, if you would
[55:50] please.
[55:51] >> Good morning, Lori Michelle Cunningham,
[55:53] » Good morning, Lori Michelle Cunningham,
[55:53] Division 5. Thanks so much for taking
[55:54] the time to come out and chat with us
[55:56] today.
[55:58] >> Morning, Dr. Blake. Uh Jerry Witstock,
[56:01] » Morning, Dr. Blake. Uh Jerry Witstock,
[56:01] division three. That's the Acme Lindon
[56:03] area, southwest corner of the county.
[56:05] Good morning, Debbie Penna. I'm in the
[56:07] Swall Area, straight south the streets
[56:08] here.
[56:10] >> And good morning. I'm Ken King. I
[56:12] » And good morning. I'm Ken King. I
[56:12] represent division 7, which is the very
[56:14] northeast portion of Neo County. So,
[56:17] kind of the town of Tro north from
[56:20] there.
[56:22] >> Good morning. I'm F McGee. I am from
[56:25] » Good morning. I'm F McGee. I am from
[56:25] Division One. It kind of goes to the
[56:27] southeast, which would um come right up
[56:30] to the borders of Drum Hill area.
[56:34] Good morning, Carrie Phobes, Division 4.
[56:37] >> Morning, Wayne Christie. I'm division 6
[56:39] » Morning, Wayne Christie. I'm division 6
[56:39] from the Northwest and we're the most
[56:41] energy efficient on that corner of the
[56:42] country.
[56:46] » Morning, Blake. Mike Hogan, chief
[56:47] administrative officer.
[56:49] >> Morning, Blake. Carolyn Vener,
[56:50] » Morning, Blake. Carolyn Vener,
[56:50] legislative services manager.
[56:53] >> Good morning, Kevin Ganon, director of
[56:55] » Good morning, Kevin Ganon, director of
[56:55] community services.
[56:57] >> Good morning, Mike Zer, director of
[56:58] » Good morning, Mike Zer, director of
[56:58] infrastructure.
[57:00] >> One more. Sorry. Good morning. Theresa
[57:02] » One more. Sorry. Good morning. Theresa
[57:02] Cochran, director of corporate services.
[57:06] >> So, welcome um Dr. Schaefer and uh if
[57:10] » So, welcome um Dr. Schaefer and uh if
[57:10] you want to just uh go right into your
[57:12] presentation, you can tell us a little
[57:14] bit about who you are and what it is you
[57:15] do as well as the presentation that you
[57:17] brought for us today. We look forward to
[57:19] that. So, welcome here.
[57:20] >> Well, do thank you very much. I'll just
[57:23] » Well, do thank you very much. I'll just
[57:23] push this back record. Um yeah, thank
[57:25] you for the opportunity to come today.
[57:27] Thank you for the invite, Carolyn. It
[57:28] was a was a lovely drive out this
[57:30] September morning. Um, I'll throw the
[57:32] caveat on the doctor. If anyone's not
[57:34] feeling well, I'm not the person to come
[57:36] see. So, my my wife reminds me of that
[57:39] quite frequently. Going to have a
[57:40] lengthy discussion with you or
[57:42] something. Um, so the topic that
[57:45] Caroline and Mike set out was just
[57:46] simply uh an update and a a discussion
[57:50] on what's going on with Alberta's
[57:51] electricity system because there has
[57:52] been so many changes in the past 10
[57:54] years. Uh, so I've prepared a a brief
[57:57] talk just with some high level overview.
[57:59] I don't know the level of what you guys
[58:01] uh know and don't know. So, some of it
[58:03] may be old hat, but really I'd love to
[58:05] just flow into conversation because I
[58:07] think that's the best part. I think
[58:08] that's the most interesting part. Feel
[58:10] free to interrupt me as we go through.
[58:12] We can we can have discussion there and
[58:14] if we're if we're straying too far, I'll
[58:16] pull it back into finish the
[58:18] presentation and we'll go from there.
[58:20] So, so my background, um I like to use
[58:23] this photo. I try to own it because this
[58:25] is a good example of uh why we should
[58:27] have media training. Uh this was my
[58:30] probably one of my first interviews I
[58:31] did and uh the person from Calgary
[58:34] Herald said, "Let's get some some by
[58:36] line shots uh some B-roll for you. We'll
[58:39] do it around some electricity
[58:40] infrastructure." And I was pointing out
[58:42] some transmission lines. And he said,
[58:44] "Well, I've got an extension cord in my
[58:46] truck." And he asked me to hold it. And
[58:48] then that was on the uh front page of
[58:50] the Calgary Herald and I I have to live
[58:53] that down. So I've decided to just own
[58:55] it.
[58:56] >> Own it. Um so my current role I'm an
[58:58] » Own it. Um so my current role I'm an
[58:58] associate professor at the University of
[59:01] Calgary uh in the department of
[59:02] economics. My focus is on energy
[59:05] markets, energy economics with a real
[59:07] focus on electricity. Um, uh, like Reef
[59:11] King said, I'm the director of Canada's
[59:13] energy modeling hub, which is an open
[59:16] source modeling initiative to ring
[59:17] together all of Canada's, um, modeling
[59:20] entities to improve the quality of our
[59:23] energy data to try to match that of the
[59:25] United States, which has sufficiently
[59:27] significantly better energy modeling
[59:29] capability than Canada has, sadly. So,
[59:32] that's been going on for five years now.
[59:34] We've just renewed for another five.
[59:36] It's a large project uh funded by
[59:38] Natural Resources Canada. I'm a regular
[59:41] policy advisor for multiple governments,
[59:44] government of Canada, uh government of
[59:46] Alberta, government BC, um Saskatchewan,
[59:49] some municipalities as well. I was late
[59:52] in life to to academia. I've been a
[59:54] professor for five years. Um most of my
[59:57] career I was in electricity trading or
[1:00:00] energy trading more broadly. Um focus on
[1:00:02] electricity, natural gas, emissions
[1:00:04] markets. I started my career at BC
[1:00:06] Hydro. Um Lehman isn't something really
[1:00:10] to brag about, but I I was at Lehman
[1:00:11] Brothers and Barkclay's Capital in in
[1:00:14] New York. Um and then I was head trader
[1:00:16] at Transalta, which is the largest power
[1:00:19] company here in Alberta.
[1:00:23] So outline of today's talk. I'll just
[1:00:25] give you um some overview things you may
[1:00:28] already know just how much Alberta's
[1:00:30] market is changing, what those changes
[1:00:32] really look like with some data and some
[1:00:33] charts. And then really I want to focus
[1:00:36] on what's next. So what are the
[1:00:37] challenges and opportunities um for
[1:00:40] Albertans for our power system? And then
[1:00:43] a little segue into is Alberta's market
[1:00:46] design, our power market design up to
[1:00:48] the task. going to just briefly overview
[1:00:50] some of those significant changes.
[1:00:53] You've may have heard of the
[1:00:54] restructured energy market that the grid
[1:00:56] operator has been working on uh for
[1:00:58] several years now. I was part of the
[1:01:00] formation of those discussions. I I I
[1:01:02] stepped to the side as they continued,
[1:01:04] but they've come to a final design and I
[1:01:06] can talk through um some of the
[1:01:08] highlights of what that design looks
[1:01:10] like and what that might mean for NIH
[1:01:12] County.
[1:01:13] Okay. So Alberta's electricity system is
[1:01:16] changing and and quickly. So this is a
[1:01:19] chart that goes up to 2015 and you can
[1:01:22] see that that bottom dark gray area is
[1:01:25] is coal generation in the mix and you
[1:01:28] see just how dominant coal was. If we go
[1:01:30] back into the '9s we were almost
[1:01:32] entirely coal production uh coal power
[1:01:35] production in our province. uh around
[1:01:37] 2000 with the growth of the oil sands
[1:01:40] you see that light gla light gray sliver
[1:01:43] uh enlarging quite a bit that's
[1:01:45] co-generation largely natural gas
[1:01:47] co-generation so by co-generation simply
[1:01:50] we're we're burning a fuel we really
[1:01:52] want that heat uh for sagd oil
[1:01:54] production but since we have that heat
[1:01:56] we'll run it through a gas turbine or a
[1:01:58] steam turbine and produce some power at
[1:01:59] the same time okay natural gas actually
[1:02:02] pure natural gas generation you can see
[1:02:04] through that period is is actually not
[1:02:06] that large. There's a slight enlargement
[1:02:09] at 2015 when the Shepard gas plant in
[1:02:11] Calgary came in, but natural gas purely
[1:02:14] for power generation wasn't as
[1:02:15] significant as co-generation and coal.
[1:02:18] At the top you see those other slivers
[1:02:20] that we have here. Hydro was our
[1:02:23] original power source in the province um
[1:02:26] continues to to go along but a
[1:02:27] relatively small size. No changes to the
[1:02:30] amount of production there. We just get
[1:02:31] our seasonal variation. uh biomass is in
[1:02:34] there and you start to see that sliver
[1:02:36] of wind and solar and really during this
[1:02:38] period it's pretty much entirely wind
[1:02:42] update a few years later and apologies
[1:02:44] this chart only goes to 2022 didn't
[1:02:46] update it today um but you see that
[1:02:48] rapid demise in in coal and you also see
[1:02:52] a change where that went so an expansion
[1:02:55] of that natural gas generation and by
[1:02:57] and large that was conversion of the
[1:03:00] large coal plants to be simple cycle
[1:03:03] steam turbine natural gas plants. So
[1:03:05] really just changing the feed stock on
[1:03:08] those power plants. We're going to burn
[1:03:09] natural gas instead of coal but keep
[1:03:11] most of the power infrastructure the
[1:03:12] same. So you see that large expansion in
[1:03:14] natural gas and you start to see that
[1:03:16] growth in wind and solar uh by that
[1:03:19] green area increasing.
[1:03:23] I like to show this one just to really
[1:03:26] show how dramatic this change has been.
[1:03:30] I think you know I I I was I've been
[1:03:33] involved at various levels of policy
[1:03:35] work and I was trading throughout this
[1:03:37] period as well and the idea of
[1:03:39] eliminating coal in its entirety in
[1:03:41] Alberta in this time frame was often
[1:03:44] viewed as unrealistic and you can see
[1:03:47] why you know we you go back 20 years and
[1:03:49] 80% of our generation comes from coal
[1:03:52] power. So to think about a wholesale
[1:03:54] change where that goes to zero is
[1:03:56] seemingly fantasy. um even 2015 when
[1:04:01] those uh large changes under that the
[1:04:03] then NDP government came in under the
[1:04:05] climate leadership plan to talk about
[1:04:08] going to zero by 2030 was viewed as
[1:04:10] fantasy when you had 50% of the
[1:04:12] generation coming from coal and you see
[1:04:15] just how quickly that fell off. Okay.
[1:04:18] And it was in early 2024 that we
[1:04:20] shuttered our last generation from coal.
[1:04:24] So what what happened to do that? kind
[1:04:26] of talked through a few things, but
[1:04:28] there was a coal phase out on the books.
[1:04:30] There was a policy to phase out coal by
[1:04:31] 2030. That became redundant. That wasn't
[1:04:34] binding. Really, the the biggest
[1:04:36] influence on driving out coal was
[1:04:38] changes to how the carbon price was set
[1:04:41] for large emitters. So, not the the
[1:04:43] carbon tax that gets all the attention
[1:04:45] that is no longer here in the province
[1:04:47] nor the country, but the large emitter
[1:04:49] carbon price. The changes that occurred
[1:04:51] there are really what drove off coal
[1:04:53] made it uneconomic relative to anything
[1:04:55] else. Uh cheap gas got cheaper and
[1:04:59] renewables got cheaper. We'll go into
[1:05:01] that. And the renewables program which
[1:05:03] was contracts from the government to
[1:05:05] derisk them as well. Couple that with
[1:05:08] falling costs of renewables made those
[1:05:10] even more competitive.
[1:05:14] Here's something on the on the carbon
[1:05:16] cost. Okay, these numbers here are in
[1:05:19] dollars per megawatt hour. If you want
[1:05:21] to convert to cents per kilowatt hour
[1:05:23] that we're more familiar with, just move
[1:05:24] the decimal one to the left and it's the
[1:05:26] same thing. So those $18.990 ledge
[1:05:30] $18.90 is 1.89
[1:05:33] uh cents per kilowatt hour. What we have
[1:05:36] here is the is the carbon cost for a
[1:05:39] coal generator in Alberta. So in 2007,
[1:05:43] Alberta put in the specified gas
[1:05:45] emitters regulation. We're actually the
[1:05:47] first jurisdiction in Canada to put in a
[1:05:50] a carbon tax even before BC. And this
[1:05:53] applied to large emitters in the
[1:05:56] province, but it was set in such a way,
[1:05:58] even though it was $15 a ton, it was
[1:06:01] only set relative to a benchmark on your
[1:06:03] specific facility.
[1:06:06] So what that means in practice is if
[1:06:07] you're quite a mission intensive quote
[1:06:11] unquote dirty facility, you actually
[1:06:13] have quite a high benchmark. So the cost
[1:06:16] to you wouldn't actually be that great.
[1:06:18] Okay. So if you're emitting here, um the
[1:06:20] benchmark would be set at say 88% of
[1:06:23] that. It's really that 12% differential
[1:06:25] that you're exposed to. And so for a
[1:06:28] coal plant, that meant about a $180 per
[1:06:30] megawatt hour was the cost. Put that
[1:06:33] against an average power price of around
[1:06:35] $60 per megawatt hour or 6 cents in the
[1:06:38] province, which is the long-term
[1:06:39] average. This is not a really
[1:06:41] significant cost. Okay. So it it added
[1:06:44] up. It was a cost they incurred, but it
[1:06:47] really didn't change the needle on
[1:06:48] shifting uh generation to other sources.
[1:06:52] In 2015, a few changes were made. First,
[1:06:55] they started increasing that carbon
[1:06:57] price. So, from $15 a ton, moving it up
[1:07:00] to $30 per ton. They also, most
[1:07:03] importantly, started moving that
[1:07:05] benchmark. So, rather than 88% of your
[1:07:08] emissions protected, they dropped it to
[1:07:10] 80. But then the big change occurred in
[1:07:13] 2018 and the UCP government actually
[1:07:16] continued with this new policy. This was
[1:07:18] one of the ones they carried on uh one
[1:07:20] of the few maybe they carried on um was
[1:07:23] to change the benchmark not to be based
[1:07:26] on your facility but sectorwide. So the
[1:07:29] benchmark would be roughly what a
[1:07:31] combined cycle natural gas plant would
[1:07:33] be. And what that means in practice is a
[1:07:36] combined cycle natural gas plant would
[1:07:38] pay zero carbon cost. Okay, zero carbon
[1:07:41] tax. A coal plant would pay on the
[1:07:44] difference between its emissions and
[1:07:46] that natural gas plant which is about
[1:07:48] 60% greater. And then something clean or
[1:07:51] something non-emitting like hydro, wind,
[1:07:54] solar, nuclear if we had it, collects
[1:07:57] the difference. Okay, so it's really
[1:08:00] rather than setting the benchmark at
[1:08:01] zero and charging everybody for
[1:08:03] emissions, they set the benchmark at
[1:08:05] something moderately emitting, charge
[1:08:07] above and collect below.
[1:08:10] Coal being well above that benchmark,
[1:08:12] you can see what happened to their cost.
[1:08:13] So by 2022, when I stopped making this
[1:08:16] chart, uh it was at $31 a megawatt hour.
[1:08:20] It's roughly half the power cost. So it
[1:08:23] becomes very quickly economic to switch
[1:08:26] that to natural gas and avoid that $30
[1:08:28] cost. Jerry
[1:08:30] >> Celto, you have a question.
[1:08:32] » Celto, you have a question.
[1:08:32] >> Yes, I do. Thank you very much for the
[1:08:34] » Yes, I do. Thank you very much for the
[1:08:34] information. So the coal cup okay the
[1:08:41] emissions from coal uh that money was
[1:08:45] paid to who?
[1:08:48] >> So the way that works is
[1:08:51] » So the way that works is
[1:08:51] uh they have to go and either pay at the
[1:08:55] till they go go to the government and
[1:08:56] pay or they have to buy emissions
[1:08:59] performance credits from anything that's
[1:09:01] below the benchmark. That could be from
[1:09:03] something in the power sector that's
[1:09:05] emitting less. It could be from oil
[1:09:07] sands companies that are below their
[1:09:09] benchmarks.
[1:09:10] >> Okay. So, what I'm getting at here is
[1:09:11] » Okay. So, what I'm getting at here is
[1:09:11] who paid was the consumer.
[1:09:14] >> In the end, the consumer paid it.
[1:09:17] » In the end, the consumer paid it.
[1:09:17] >> Not necessarily. So, this that's a great
[1:09:19] » Not necessarily. So, this that's a great
[1:09:19] question. So, the reason for setting the
[1:09:21] benchmark at the level of natural gas is
[1:09:23] the way power prices are set uh at a
[1:09:26] wholesale level in Alberta. It's going
[1:09:28] to be rather complex. uh at a wholesale
[1:09:29] level is set based on the last generator
[1:09:32] that's needed to produce the level of
[1:09:35] power that we need in the province.
[1:09:37] Typically, that's a natural gas plant.
[1:09:40] And so these coal costs would happen
[1:09:42] what we call inframarginally. They're
[1:09:44] relatively low marginal costs. That cost
[1:09:47] happened uh rises on them, but typically
[1:09:49] it's a natural gas plant that's setting
[1:09:51] the price in Alberta. And so the the
[1:09:54] design of this structure to
[1:09:57] change the baseline from zero to
[1:10:00] something like natural gas means the
[1:10:02] pass through to consumers
[1:10:04] it was relatively small from this. I've
[1:10:06] actually done a lot of I've done some um
[1:10:08] peer-reviewed published work on what the
[1:10:10] impact of the carbon price was. Um
[1:10:14] overall less than a cent per kilowatt
[1:10:17] hour was from the carbon tax. Most of
[1:10:19] the increase we've seen was in changes
[1:10:21] in what we call economic withholding in
[1:10:24] the we can we can get into that if you'd
[1:10:25] like but this is think of it as
[1:10:27] exercising market power that was about
[1:10:30] five cents per kilowatt hour change the
[1:10:33] carbon price was about.7 cents and that
[1:10:36] really is because of this um this
[1:10:39] benchmark setting. So who pays it's the
[1:10:41] coal companies the ones that were
[1:10:43] producing that who wins it's anybody
[1:10:45] below the benchmark. So, it's a transfer
[1:10:48] within the sector and a little bit
[1:10:50] within the province because you can use
[1:10:52] these credits across sectors. And what
[1:10:55] you're doing is you're you're making
[1:10:57] more favorable economics for things that
[1:10:58] are clean and less favorable for things
[1:11:00] that are dirty, which is why we saw coal
[1:11:03] exit very very quickly. Yeah, it's a
[1:11:06] great question.
[1:11:12] So on the that was coal on the
[1:11:15] renewables and I did update this to to
[1:11:18] uh yesterday uh or Friday. So here you
[1:11:22] see the capacity of renewables. So this
[1:11:24] isn't energy production. This is their
[1:11:26] name plate capacity. And of course
[1:11:27] that's very different. Um just to just
[1:11:31] to be clear, solar generation on average
[1:11:35] is about 20% of its capacity over the
[1:11:37] year and wind is about 40 to 45%. Those
[1:11:41] are rough numbers, it varies. Um but
[1:11:44] this is the capacity in megawws of
[1:11:46] these. And so you you see the really
[1:11:48] dramatic uh rise in in both of these
[1:11:51] generation sources in the province. uh
[1:11:55] solar relatively non-existent other than
[1:11:57] the the 15 megawatt Brooks plant for for
[1:11:59] many many years. Suddenly we have this
[1:12:02] large rise up to 1,800 megawatts. And
[1:12:04] and for perspective, the the average
[1:12:07] capacity need of the system is around
[1:12:09] 10,000 megawws. Okay, to give us some
[1:12:13] context so you can see just how relevant
[1:12:15] these are. And I'll show you some slides
[1:12:17] later. Uh the province now regularly
[1:12:20] gets up to half of our power supply
[1:12:24] being supplied by wind and solar in some
[1:12:27] hours. That varies greatly. Some hours
[1:12:30] it's near zero. Uh it'll range from zero
[1:12:33] to 50%. Okay? And we'll we'll we'll look
[1:12:36] at that and we'll talk about what that
[1:12:38] means in terms of variability. But just
[1:12:40] to give you some context about just how
[1:12:42] big this is, this isn't just an Alberta
[1:12:45] phenomenon. Um, a really interesting
[1:12:49] stat I heard recently was, you know, it
[1:12:52] took decades to get our first terowatt
[1:12:55] of solar capacity globally. So, a
[1:12:58] terowatt being a million megawws. Uh,
[1:13:00] you know, started back in say the 1970s,
[1:13:03] Jimmy Carter solar panels to 2023 was
[1:13:06] when we hit our first one terowatt.
[1:13:08] Between 2023 and 2025, we've added
[1:13:12] another terowatt.
[1:13:14] Okay. So solar has now doubled in two
[1:13:17] years.
[1:13:17] >> That's worldwide.
[1:13:18] » That's worldwide.
[1:13:18] >> That's worldwide and the bulk of that is
[1:13:20] » That's worldwide and the bulk of that is
[1:13:20] China.
[1:13:21] >> Okay. The bulk of that is China.
[1:13:24] » Okay. The bulk of that is China.
[1:13:24] >> Um but on that same trajectory we're now
[1:13:27] » Um but on that same trajectory we're now
[1:13:27] seeing in Africa. So in the last two
[1:13:29] years solar capacity is soaring in in in
[1:13:32] Africa as well as India. Um the US is
[1:13:36] very mixed and I think you know these
[1:13:39] next few years we're going to see a bit
[1:13:40] of a slowdown under pressure but uh
[1:13:42] Texas is actually where you're seeing
[1:13:44] the most solar growth. So that same
[1:13:46] growth chart that projection that
[1:13:48] exponential look that like that blue
[1:13:50] line up there we're seeing that in Texas
[1:13:52] with solar
[1:13:54] and I point that out. I point out Texas
[1:13:57] to note that's not an ideological bent
[1:13:59] for solar growth in Texas. It's a cost
[1:14:02] story globally. how cheap these have
[1:14:05] become. The two fastest growing assets
[1:14:08] in the power sector globally right now
[1:14:10] are solar photovoltaics and batteries
[1:14:14] and batteries are now uh fast rising
[1:14:18] faster although they're coming from a
[1:14:19] lower standpoint than solar.
[1:14:22] Uh here's that chart I mentioned. So
[1:14:24] this is um uh wind, water, and solar
[1:14:27] generation. So not capacity, but this is
[1:14:30] generation in Alberta. The white line is
[1:14:32] is the monthly averages I've produced
[1:14:35] here. Um, and so you see that we're
[1:14:39] getting up to around 25%
[1:14:42] of Alberta's power generation
[1:14:45] coming from these three sources.
[1:14:49] Okay. But you can also see in that gray
[1:14:52] line, I think I believe I can't remember
[1:14:53] if that's daily or hourly ranges. Okay.
[1:14:57] I think I think actually I used hourly
[1:14:59] for this. So this is the range of hourly
[1:15:02] shares of demand and you can see over
[1:15:04] that period it rarely hits a full zero
[1:15:07] and part of that is because you have
[1:15:08] hydro in this mix. Wind and solar wind
[1:15:12] and solar will get to zero. Um
[1:15:15] but it gets pretty low and you can see
[1:15:18] just how big that range is and that's
[1:15:21] challenging for a closed relatively
[1:15:24] closed system like Alberta to manage
[1:15:27] those swings. Okay. when you when you
[1:15:29] move up and down, you need other assets.
[1:15:32] California manages most of their swings.
[1:15:35] They have much larger swings. They'll
[1:15:37] reach 100% of their demand served by
[1:15:40] wind, water, solar, some hours. Um, they
[1:15:43] manage it through transmission. They
[1:15:46] have much larger transmission
[1:15:47] connections to their neighbors than
[1:15:49] Alberta does. Okay. I started my career
[1:15:51] at BC Hydro. I'm very adept at moving
[1:15:53] power between provinces. uh we have very
[1:15:56] small connections relatively speaking in
[1:15:58] Alberta to our neighboring provinces and
[1:16:00] states.
[1:16:04] So um I put this slide up because
[1:16:06] everyone has uh strong opinions on
[1:16:09] renewables. Um so I thought let's just
[1:16:11] you know air that in the open and I'll
[1:16:13] give you my take and um talk about both
[1:16:17] the pros and cons.
[1:16:20] So why is there a push for renewables? I
[1:16:22] mean the first one is they don't emit g
[1:16:24] greenhouse gases during production like
[1:16:27] like any construction you you have
[1:16:29] emissions when you're building something
[1:16:31] that but during um during power
[1:16:34] production you don't have emissions uh
[1:16:36] once built their marginal cost is near
[1:16:39] zero okay so that that cost of running
[1:16:42] is very low and most importantly the
[1:16:44] capital cost the cost to build them is
[1:16:47] falling so on the right you have what's
[1:16:49] called levelized cost and this is kind
[1:16:51] of think of this This is the expected
[1:16:52] average cost over the lifetime uh of a
[1:16:55] unit. This is in dollars per megawatt
[1:16:57] hour. And you see solar back there in
[1:17:00] 2008 2010 in the hundreds of dollars per
[1:17:03] megawatt hour. This is right when I was
[1:17:05] um in the middle of my trading career
[1:17:07] and we had
[1:17:09] deals or requests to do uh renewable
[1:17:12] transactions and I'd look at them saying
[1:17:15] the power production is intermittent,
[1:17:17] unpredictable, it's it's low quality and
[1:17:20] they're really expensive. So you better
[1:17:23] really value those greenhouse gas
[1:17:24] reductions to want to do renewables at
[1:17:27] that stage. Okay? Okay. And that's when
[1:17:29] you look back at Ontario's green
[1:17:31] electricity program, which was near the
[1:17:34] start of that, they were paying upwards
[1:17:37] of $800 a megawatt hour for some of
[1:17:39] their early subsidies. Okay? And I think
[1:17:42] that legacy, not only was it costly for
[1:17:44] Alberta rateayers, but it's been very
[1:17:46] damaging, I would say, for the push for
[1:17:49] renewables later on because many people
[1:17:51] I speak to still point to that Ontario
[1:17:53] experience is just how costly renewables
[1:17:55] are. And it it even for someone like me
[1:17:59] who's very in the weeds in this space,
[1:18:02] it took me a long time to reset that to
[1:18:05] update my priors to recognize that while
[1:18:08] these things are still intermittent,
[1:18:09] we'll go through the cons in a second.
[1:18:10] They're still variable, still relatively
[1:18:12] low quality power, they're cheap. They
[1:18:16] are really cheap. So if you look at
[1:18:18] solar and wind there, um then this is
[1:18:21] just to 2020 and the decline has
[1:18:23] continued. You're talking for solar
[1:18:26] between 30 and $40 a megawatt hour. So
[1:18:28] three to four cents per kilowatt hour.
[1:18:31] For wind you're getting into the mid20s
[1:18:35] per megawatt hour.
[1:18:37] That's the cheapest source of energy
[1:18:39] there is. Okay. So for perspective,
[1:18:43] um a natural gas plant, they're
[1:18:45] relatively cheap here in Alberta because
[1:18:46] our natural gas is some of the cheapest
[1:18:48] in the world. Um, but for natural gas,
[1:18:51] you're talking around $50 to $80 would
[1:18:53] be a rough average cost. What we call
[1:18:55] levelized cost. For a nuclear plant,
[1:18:59] there's not as much data on those, but
[1:19:01] expectations in is in the realm
[1:19:03] optimistic in the high 90s, but
[1:19:05] realistically probably about $110 to
[1:19:08] $140 per megawatt hour. Hydro similarly
[1:19:11] for large hydro. Okay. So, you can see
[1:19:14] why the attraction to this cheap source
[1:19:16] of energy. We'll go through the cons and
[1:19:18] that sort of raises the how can we
[1:19:20] combine that cheap source of energy with
[1:19:22] other parts of our portfolio to make it
[1:19:24] worth our while.
[1:19:26] >> Kab you have a question.
[1:19:28] » Kab you have a question.
[1:19:28] >> Oh yeah.
[1:19:28] » Oh yeah.
[1:19:28] >> Yeah. Thank you. So when we talk about
[1:19:30] » Yeah. Thank you. So when we talk about
[1:19:30] the cheap source of energy like I guess
[1:19:32] when we talk about that are we um
[1:19:34] factoring in like the government's
[1:19:36] involvement in that like because for
[1:19:38] example we had a project here in county
[1:19:41] that received $32 million in federal
[1:19:43] funding. Mhm.
[1:19:44] >> Um, so it might appear cheap, but it's
[1:19:47] » Um, so it might appear cheap, but it's
[1:19:47] still like there's there was a cost to
[1:19:49] it. So is that is that
[1:19:51] >> these are these are unsubsidized
[1:19:53] » these are these are unsubsidized
[1:19:53] numbers.
[1:19:54] >> And and absolutely I I I advise even the
[1:19:57] » And and absolutely I I I advise even the
[1:19:57] federal government and that's one of the
[1:19:58] things I remember speaking with Mr.
[1:20:00] Minister Wilkinson on is like stop
[1:20:02] subsidizing these. They don't need it.
[1:20:04] And and I think because of the pace at
[1:20:06] which this was changing, they did need
[1:20:08] subsidies for a while if the carbon co
[1:20:11] carbon tax wasn't covering this uh or
[1:20:13] there was just simply a bridge. We want
[1:20:15] these things. We want the future
[1:20:16] greenhouse gas reductions, but there's a
[1:20:18] slight cost disadvantage. Subsidies are
[1:20:20] one way to push it over. But we're to
[1:20:23] the point where they're no longer
[1:20:24] needed.
[1:20:25] >> Okay. So these numbers are without
[1:20:27] » Okay. So these numbers are without
[1:20:27] subsidies.
[1:20:28] >> Correct. Okay.
[1:20:28] » Correct. Okay.
[1:20:28] >> Yeah. This these numbers are from the
[1:20:30] » Yeah. This these numbers are from the
[1:20:30] the Lazard report which is sort of the
[1:20:33] gold standard globally for um levelized
[1:20:36] costs. And this is from their their 14th
[1:20:39] report. I think they're on number 16 or
[1:20:41] 17 now. I can point this out to Mike and
[1:20:44] find the exact thing.
[1:20:47] >> Councelor Penner.
[1:20:48] » Councelor Penner.
[1:20:48] >> So just to follow up to that, what are
[1:20:50] » So just to follow up to that, what are
[1:20:50] you hearing from the governments? Are
[1:20:51] they listening to you in regard to that?
[1:20:53] Because at the end of the day, it's our
[1:20:54] money. It's the rateayers money. You
[1:20:56] know what I mean? So yeah,
[1:20:58] >> um is this something as a mun we we need
[1:21:01] » um is this something as a mun we we need
[1:21:01] to be advocating for enough's enough
[1:21:02] here? Um but these subsidies I know it's
[1:21:05] federally mostly but I mean
[1:21:07] >> so are they listening?
[1:21:10] » I'd love to say yes councelor Penner but
[1:21:13] um
[1:21:15] >> it's hard sometimes. So this is a this
[1:21:18] » it's hard sometimes. So this is a this
[1:21:18] is a tangent but the clean electricity
[1:21:19] regulations is a different thing alto
[1:21:22] together but um that was one where I was
[1:21:25] quite vocal in my critiques of the clean
[1:21:28] electricity regulation and I'm not
[1:21:29] someone to sort of intently try to slow
[1:21:32] down decarbonization. I I I believe it's
[1:21:34] needed. Um but I was very critical in
[1:21:37] the prescriptive nature of it and they
[1:21:40] did listen to a large degree there. So
[1:21:42] it it's it's probably buried in the
[1:21:43] weeds, but between the first iteration
[1:21:45] of the clean electricity regulations and
[1:21:47] then the final proposed or the final
[1:21:49] one, uh there was a dramatic change
[1:21:51] there. So I do chalk that up. So I
[1:21:53] myself and and another academic, we um
[1:21:56] we spent a lot of time with them. We put
[1:21:58] out public um consultations and and I
[1:22:01] think they did change there. On the um
[1:22:03] renewable subsidies, I think there has
[1:22:05] been a slight shift away. The dollars
[1:22:07] well 32 million in the county is is
[1:22:08] large. overall they've dropped
[1:22:11] dramatically and there's lots of
[1:22:14] subsidies I disagree with uh from all
[1:22:17] ranges of governments out there that are
[1:22:19] probably unnecessary and either targeted
[1:22:22] for political or local jobs. Um they are
[1:22:26] slowing down on the renewables front. I
[1:22:28] I would say that but they're not pulling
[1:22:30] them all together.
[1:22:32] >> So I just I mean a follow up to that.
[1:22:34] » So I just I mean a follow up to that.
[1:22:34] Are you are are the ears more open
[1:22:36] proincially over federal or about the
[1:22:38] same?
[1:22:40] >> Um
[1:22:42] » Um
[1:22:42] [Laughter]
[1:22:44] >> because I don't think we're we're heard
[1:22:45] » because I don't think we're we're heard
[1:22:45] out here in the west to be honest with
[1:22:46] you from down east. So uh are federal
[1:22:50] government listening?
[1:22:50] >> Right. I think they are. In fact, I'm
[1:22:53] » Right. I think they are. In fact, I'm
[1:22:53] working on a new thing with Enerc right
[1:22:55] now. They're going to provide about $8
[1:22:57] million to a project I'm starting on
[1:22:59] interprovincial transmission. And the
[1:23:02] the thing I get from them, this
[1:23:04] particular um um pocket of money is a
[1:23:08] large pocket. They have several billion
[1:23:09] dollars for projects. Um they they very
[1:23:14] much disproportionately allocate to
[1:23:16] Alberta and the West for this very
[1:23:18] reason of wanting to be made sure it's
[1:23:20] clear that they are supportive. That's
[1:23:22] NRCAN, Natural Resources Canada. I think
[1:23:25] of all of the ministries, they might be
[1:23:27] a little bit more understanding or more
[1:23:30] receptive to our needs. Um, speaking
[1:23:33] frankly, like Environment Canada is
[1:23:35] mixed. I I work with them and and um,
[1:23:38] you know, sometimes I, for example, the
[1:23:41] first iteration of the clean electricity
[1:23:42] regulations,
[1:23:44] they simply weren't plausible. They
[1:23:46] simply weren't doable in many provinces
[1:23:49] in in in Canada, of which Saskatchewan
[1:23:52] and Alberta would be two. And they put
[1:23:56] that first one out, I think, without I
[1:23:59] think they maybe you could call it a
[1:24:01] negotiation or political, I'm not sure,
[1:24:03] but it wasn't feasible from an
[1:24:04] electricity or energy standpoint.
[1:24:07] But the good news is they did listen in
[1:24:09] the end.
[1:24:11] So here on the con side, the most
[1:24:13] obvious con is production is variable. I
[1:24:16] just pulled out a random day. This was
[1:24:17] April 1st of this year, just to show you
[1:24:20] what wind generation can look like
[1:24:22] within a day. And you understand why
[1:24:24] grid operators have a have a tough time
[1:24:27] with this source of generation. Um,
[1:24:30] you know, you're going from near zero
[1:24:32] middle of the day to over 1500 megawws.
[1:24:35] And again, in a system that's roughly
[1:24:37] running around 10,000. And so when you
[1:24:39] see that really steep line, a steep
[1:24:41] curve there between 6:00 p.m. and and 7
[1:24:44] p.m., you need some other source of
[1:24:46] generation or transmission lines that
[1:24:50] can ramp up quite quickly to to manage
[1:24:53] that change. Okay? And so and so that is
[1:24:56] a struggle in a small system that still
[1:24:59] doesn't have much energy storage.
[1:25:02] The other crit um challenge with wind
[1:25:05] and solar in particular is the low
[1:25:07] energy density. So large land needed per
[1:25:10] megawatt. And I'm sure we'll get into
[1:25:12] this. I'm not an aggrava expert,
[1:25:14] although I do know University of Calgary
[1:25:16] has some trial programs going on at some
[1:25:18] ranches in the foothills. Um uh but this
[1:25:21] is this is a challenge that the land
[1:25:24] mass needed for um especially more so
[1:25:27] solar, you know, uh because it does take
[1:25:30] up more of a footprint and the capacity
[1:25:32] factors are relatively low. So that's
[1:25:34] something to consider. And the third and
[1:25:37] this is getting into the electrical
[1:25:39] engineers in the room will appreciate
[1:25:40] this but um there's certain features of
[1:25:43] power plants that are needed to make the
[1:25:44] grid stable. And so one is when you have
[1:25:48] hydro turbines or natural gas or coal
[1:25:51] generators really when I teach
[1:25:54] electricity markets to my students
[1:25:56] pretty much everything uh except for
[1:25:58] solar is about spinning something.
[1:26:00] you're spinning a magnetic coil, you
[1:26:03] know, around a current and that and
[1:26:05] that's creating the current, sorry. Um,
[1:26:07] and that spinning mass also has inertia.
[1:26:10] And so when we have deviations on the
[1:26:12] system, when we when we plug in a
[1:26:14] toaster or boil some water here, we're
[1:26:16] not turning a power plant up and down.
[1:26:18] We're leaning on that inertia of the
[1:26:20] system and we're adjusting the frequency
[1:26:23] of electricity. So electricity
[1:26:25] oscillates at a 60 Hz frequency. We're
[1:26:28] adjusting that very small amounts 59.99
[1:26:31] if we have an extra pull. So it slows
[1:26:33] down the system. If we turn off demand,
[1:26:36] the the system speeds up a little bit.
[1:26:39] We have to keep that within really tight
[1:26:41] ranges. Okay, we're getting really into
[1:26:43] the weeds, but wind and solar don't have
[1:26:45] that. I know wind is spinning, um, but
[1:26:49] that's happening behind an inverter, so
[1:26:51] the system itself doesn't see that.
[1:26:54] Okay. And so that was something that's
[1:26:56] what really caught our grid operator
[1:26:58] offguard about a year and a half ago
[1:27:01] when they started to recognize we have
[1:27:03] all these renewables. They're not
[1:27:05] providing those two things, inertia and
[1:27:07] frequency regulation to our system and
[1:27:10] we need those. Historically
[1:27:14] they got those for free from thermal
[1:27:16] generators. They didn't charge they
[1:27:18] didn't there was no product. They didn't
[1:27:19] make them pay um they didn't pay for it.
[1:27:22] They simply made a technical order that
[1:27:24] these generators had to leave a tiny bit
[1:27:26] of headroom for this inertia and
[1:27:30] frequency regulation. I'm
[1:27:31] oversimplifying but I think you get the
[1:27:33] picture.
[1:27:35] So when we move to something that has
[1:27:37] more of these what we call inverterbased
[1:27:39] resources, so wind and solar that come
[1:27:42] as direct current and they get
[1:27:43] transferred to alternating current on
[1:27:45] the system. We didn't have that and so
[1:27:48] as a result they had to really quickly
[1:27:50] put in that was one of the reasons for
[1:27:52] the moratorum stated reasons we need to
[1:27:55] slow down renewables because we don't
[1:27:56] have this. The grid operator also
[1:27:58] curtailed the um amount of uh
[1:28:02] electricity transfer on the interies so
[1:28:04] that they could use the interties more
[1:28:07] for leverage. Okay. And also so they
[1:28:09] wouldn't have as much flowing on the
[1:28:10] interties if we had a problem here. And
[1:28:13] it really caught them off guard. Okay.
[1:28:16] And I want to I want to suggest that
[1:28:18] this is sort of both a real issue, but
[1:28:22] one that just a little bit of planning
[1:28:25] and foresight and management can deal
[1:28:27] with. Texas, for example, recognized the
[1:28:30] issue of lack of inertia with growing
[1:28:32] inverter-based resources about 10 years
[1:28:35] ago. And what they started to demand is
[1:28:38] that all inverterbased resources are
[1:28:41] what's called grid forming rather than
[1:28:43] grid following. So grid following simply
[1:28:46] means if the frequency is is deviating,
[1:28:48] you're following that new frequency. So
[1:28:50] you can actually make you're propagating
[1:28:51] things, making it worse. Grid forming,
[1:28:54] you're dictating the frequency at which
[1:28:57] your generation is coming onto the
[1:28:58] system. So you can actually help if the
[1:29:01] frequency is dropping, you can say, I'm
[1:29:03] actually 60.01 01 hertz and you raise
[1:29:06] it. Okay, that little change which has a
[1:29:09] cost and that cost would be borne by the
[1:29:12] inverter based resources like wind and
[1:29:14] solar was part of a regulation in Texas
[1:29:17] 10 years ago when they saw this coming.
[1:29:19] We were late on that and I think a big
[1:29:22] part of that was the grid operator
[1:29:25] really didn't foresee the growth of wind
[1:29:27] and solar that I would argue was very
[1:29:30] obvious and I got a lot of friends there
[1:29:31] at the grid operator and they're a bit
[1:29:32] mad at me because I made a lot of public
[1:29:34] statements in 2021 saying these
[1:29:37] long-term forecasts are farcical because
[1:29:39] they were forecasting the level of solar
[1:29:42] that we ended up having in 2023 that we
[1:29:44] wouldn't reach it until 2041.
[1:29:48] And so it really caught them off guard
[1:29:49] because they didn't expect to have this.
[1:29:51] And I think all you had to do was look
[1:29:54] outside our jurisdiction to see just how
[1:29:56] much it was growing and how quickly
[1:29:58] those capital costs were falling to know
[1:30:00] that it was going to come. As a result,
[1:30:03] they were caught off guard. So what are
[1:30:04] they doing? They're going out there and
[1:30:06] they're procuring things that can
[1:30:07] provide frequency regulation. There's
[1:30:10] contracts in place. Largely those are
[1:30:12] batteries. So for Texas's whole system
[1:30:14] in addition to inverter based resources
[1:30:16] they just needed to procure 500 megawws
[1:30:19] of batteries to manage all the frequency
[1:30:21] regulation from this problem. That's
[1:30:23] tiny cost okay and that's their size of
[1:30:26] their systems about seven times ours. So
[1:30:28] there are solutions is my whole point to
[1:30:30] that that rant.
[1:30:32] So so here's the reality. I'm happy to
[1:30:35] have some discussion on this. Um, first
[1:30:38] off, anyone that tells you we're going
[1:30:39] to run our entire system on wind and
[1:30:41] solar is is not telling the truth. Okay?
[1:30:44] So, I think that extreme causes
[1:30:46] problems. But people also saying that,
[1:30:49] you know, because the sun doesn't shine
[1:30:50] at night that uh solar has no value is
[1:30:53] also incorrect.
[1:30:55] Okay. What do they do? Wind and solar
[1:30:57] displace
[1:30:58] um costly fuel. So, you know, I think
[1:31:02] you guys have solar panels on your roof
[1:31:04] here. I saw when I drove in, they
[1:31:06] weren't generating power last night. I'm
[1:31:08] pretty confident of that. That doesn't
[1:31:10] mean they're worthless. What they're
[1:31:11] doing is they're displacing the need to
[1:31:13] pay for fuel, operating costs, wear and
[1:31:16] tear on other power plants during the
[1:31:19] day. Okay. So, there is that energy
[1:31:22] value there. The key thing is thinking
[1:31:26] about how they work as part of a system
[1:31:28] or portfolio. What are you pairing it
[1:31:30] with such that the cost of that other
[1:31:33] resource sitting idle more frequently
[1:31:36] when you combine that that it's worth
[1:31:38] your while? Okay. And that's why things
[1:31:42] like batteries which are a perfect
[1:31:43] compliment for intermittent renewables
[1:31:45] are that fastest growing resource in the
[1:31:47] power sector. Base load technology is
[1:31:51] not a good compliment.
[1:31:54] Okay. So we often hear this push for
[1:31:56] wanting base load. If you're thinking
[1:31:58] about a portfolio, base load has almost
[1:32:01] just as much challenges as intermittent
[1:32:03] generation in the sense that demand is
[1:32:06] not base load. Okay, there's a certain
[1:32:08] level that's fine. We often have systems
[1:32:11] with a certain level of industrial load
[1:32:13] that can pair well with 247 production,
[1:32:16] but most of our demand at some level
[1:32:18] goes up and down. So really the ideal
[1:32:21] source is one that's flexible and what
[1:32:24] we call dispatchable. So on demand
[1:32:27] new technologies can resolve technical
[1:32:29] challenges. Okay. So as this grows human
[1:32:32] ingenuity grows with it. Um batteries,
[1:32:36] grid forming inverters, flexible demand.
[1:32:39] I'll talk about that. Uh the key is
[1:32:41] finding the right compliments to take
[1:32:42] advantage of this increasingly cheap
[1:32:45] source of energy. The way I like to
[1:32:47] think about renewables is they're not
[1:32:48] reliable. You can't call on them when
[1:32:50] you want, but they are a cheap source of
[1:32:52] energy. Can we find a way to use this
[1:32:55] cheap source of energy? Can we shift
[1:32:56] demand to when they're there? Can we
[1:32:58] shift that to supply to other periods?
[1:33:00] Can we complement it with other sources
[1:33:02] to give us the reliable power that we
[1:33:04] want?
[1:33:07] Um, I can pause there for a sec.
[1:33:10] Caroline, how much time did you have
[1:33:11] allocated for me today?
[1:33:13] >> Oh, no.
[1:33:16] » Oh, no.
[1:33:16] >> I gotta get back for class after. Um if
[1:33:19] » I gotta get back for class after. Um if
[1:33:19] anybody's questions there I I just have
[1:33:22] um
[1:33:23] >> sure
[1:33:24] » sure
[1:33:24] >> I have some stuff on the compliments
[1:33:25] » I have some stuff on the compliments
[1:33:25] side of things but uh
[1:33:28] >> councor folks
[1:33:28] » councor folks
[1:33:28] >> I mean I've had conversations with
[1:33:30] » I mean I've had conversations with
[1:33:30] people in the public around when energy
[1:33:32] really became an issue for who we are
[1:33:33] and I believe with the technologies that
[1:33:35] are coming out the AIS those type of
[1:33:37] things that requires more energy than
[1:33:39] what was usually done before.
[1:33:41] >> Yeah. And so is the cost of carbon also
[1:33:44] » Yeah. And so is the cost of carbon also
[1:33:44] included in the dismantling of all of
[1:33:46] this equipment that is producing this
[1:33:48] cheap energy when we need it to help us
[1:33:50] to rely on when the grids are down and
[1:33:52] not running as fast.
[1:33:55] >> Um sorry I'm trying to understand your
[1:33:58] » Um sorry I'm trying to understand your
[1:33:58] question. Um the
[1:34:01] >> well you're looking at technology. I'm
[1:34:03] » well you're looking at technology. I'm
[1:34:03] looking at it from a perspective of when
[1:34:04] did when did electricity become such an
[1:34:06] issue for everybody using it is when
[1:34:08] when technologies improved to the point
[1:34:10] where now everything is you've got
[1:34:12] clouds you've got everything storing
[1:34:15] everything that requires energy
[1:34:17] >> so is the carbon also included in those
[1:34:19] » so is the carbon also included in those
[1:34:19] technologies when so the equipment we
[1:34:22] have windmills out here once that
[1:34:23] equipment is down is the carbon produced
[1:34:26] where are we putting these because right
[1:34:27] now currently there isn't a best
[1:34:28] recycling program for any of the
[1:34:30] equipment being put on At least the
[1:34:32] lands in Alberta.
[1:34:33] >> Sure. It's talking about reclamation
[1:34:35] » Sure. It's talking about reclamation
[1:34:35] costs.
[1:34:36] >> So the the direct answer on carbon costs
[1:34:39] » So the the direct answer on carbon costs
[1:34:39] is is no. The large emitter pricing
[1:34:42] system in in Alberta and the one that
[1:34:44] applies federally too, but the Alberta
[1:34:46] one dominates here or trumps it. Um that
[1:34:48] is only on production emissions. Okay.
[1:34:51] So life cycle emissions on everything um
[1:34:55] are not are not part of that. It's on
[1:34:57] production emissions on on reclamation.
[1:35:00] That that's an important issue. I spent
[1:35:02] a lot of time doing research on um oil
[1:35:04] and gas reclamation liabilities which
[1:35:07] you know pale and make um renewables one
[1:35:12] look like an an ant on a molehill. um s
[1:35:17] significantly different issue in the
[1:35:19] sense of
[1:35:21] on renewables. You're building these
[1:35:23] typically on private land with land
[1:35:25] owners and you can the land owners are
[1:35:27] in full control over decisions whether
[1:35:29] or not they want to require a
[1:35:32] reclamation bond to to deal with that
[1:35:35] aftermath. Whereas on oil and gas,
[1:35:38] you're if you're the mineral rights
[1:35:39] holder, you can gain access to that land
[1:35:41] and you can even um compel surface
[1:35:44] rights holders. The other big issue is
[1:35:47] at the end of life of a wind or solar
[1:35:50] project.
[1:35:52] Well, you have to deal with that scrap
[1:35:54] metal and everything that you have
[1:35:56] there. The land's still going to have
[1:35:58] value. And if it's a strong solar or
[1:35:59] wind site, the earth cycles are going to
[1:36:02] mean that's still a strong wind or solar
[1:36:04] site. And so you're going to probably
[1:36:06] most likely repurpose that with the
[1:36:08] newest technology for either windmills
[1:36:10] or or um solar panels. Whereas on an oil
[1:36:14] gas facility, if you depleted that
[1:36:15] reservoir, you've also significantly
[1:36:17] depleted the land value underneath it.
[1:36:20] Um, so while I don't diminish at all the
[1:36:23] reclamation challenges with renewables,
[1:36:26] I I do struggle with a lot of the focus
[1:36:29] in this province on that when the oil
[1:36:32] and gas one is hundreds of times larger
[1:36:36] and has this challenge of depleted
[1:36:38] economic value of the site as well.
[1:36:42] Yeah. Anything else?
[1:36:44] >> Councor Phobes, please. So, I appreciate
[1:36:47] » Councor Phobes, please. So, I appreciate
[1:36:47] that answer, but I mean, we're talking
[1:36:49] about energy that we're being told is
[1:36:51] green, green, green, green. But there is
[1:36:53] an end of life expectation that you know
[1:36:55] what, true story, oil and gas, my
[1:36:57] husband works in this industry. Yes,
[1:36:59] there is a lot, but the solar panels,
[1:37:01] where are we putting them at the end of
[1:37:02] the life? Because the landfills in
[1:37:04] Torington or that we have currently in
[1:37:06] Neihill County will not house those. So,
[1:37:08] where will they go and how is that green
[1:37:10] and where is the carbon attached to that
[1:37:12] portion of it as well? We're going to
[1:37:14] talk about it. Let's talk about all of
[1:37:15] it. Not aortion so that we get what we
[1:37:17] want.
[1:37:18] >> Fair. Yeah. I don't like the term green.
[1:37:21] » Fair. Yeah. I don't like the term green.
[1:37:21] Okay.
[1:37:21] >> Because I
[1:37:22] » Because I
[1:37:22] >> Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it, you
[1:37:24] » Yeah. Yeah. Because I think it, you
[1:37:24] know, nothing is without consequence.
[1:37:27] >> Um and I think, you know, that that's
[1:37:31] » Um and I think, you know, that that's
[1:37:31] that's why I like life cycle analysis.
[1:37:34] Um, I think if you looked at life cycle
[1:37:37] analysis and took that into account
[1:37:39] though, you'd still find the the carbon
[1:37:41] um impact from these significantly less
[1:37:44] than anything else. Um, but it is is not
[1:37:48] something to dismiss. Agreed.
[1:37:52] the same I you know I I do a lot of
[1:37:55] research on electric vehicle impacts and
[1:37:57] the same question goes in there in terms
[1:37:58] of you know the emission impacts of
[1:38:00] building the batteries and things like
[1:38:02] this and and that's often touted as a
[1:38:04] reason why electric vehicles are not uh
[1:38:06] clean or green to use that word and and
[1:38:09] yes you should include them but there's
[1:38:11] really good rigorous work that once even
[1:38:13] when you include that it's significantly
[1:38:15] lower impact than than um internal
[1:38:18] combustion gas or diesel fuel. So here's
[1:38:21] what I wanted to talk about which is
[1:38:23] what are these complements to say a
[1:38:26] world with more renewables because
[1:38:28] renewables are cheap. So clean is just
[1:38:30] one desired attribute. Uh affordable and
[1:38:33] reliable is really this this trifecta is
[1:38:35] what we need on our on our system. Um we
[1:38:39] do have abundant and cheap renewables
[1:38:42] that gives us I'll call it clean if
[1:38:45] councelor folks will allow me for now.
[1:38:48] Um and and it does allow for more
[1:38:50] affordable, but what are our options to
[1:38:52] make that reliable and really there's
[1:38:55] there's four big paths here. Um which
[1:38:58] I'll go into each, but flexible supply
[1:39:00] to pair it with. So supply that can fill
[1:39:02] those valleys. Storage, okay, to shift
[1:39:06] power from one period to another.
[1:39:07] Transmission to move power from one
[1:39:09] jurisdiction to another. And the flip
[1:39:11] side of thinking only about the supply
[1:39:13] side, which is what about moving demand
[1:39:15] around, which is what we all do in our
[1:39:17] daily lives. When the price of a airline
[1:39:19] ticket gets really expensive, we think,
[1:39:20] well, maybe I'll travel on a Thursday
[1:39:22] instead of a Friday.
[1:39:24] So, in the clean, firm, and flexible
[1:39:27] supply. So, these things we can pair
[1:39:28] with. Renewables are cheap, but they're
[1:39:30] intermittent, which is not what we love.
[1:39:32] So, what are the supply side firm
[1:39:34] solutions? So, firm as in they're ready
[1:39:36] when we need them. Uh, reservoir hydro.
[1:39:39] So not run of river hydro but hydro with
[1:39:42] a reservoir down behind it so we can
[1:39:43] call on it at at our will. Uh nuclear
[1:39:46] power hydrogen turbines. So these would
[1:39:48] be taking simple cycle gas plants
[1:39:51] instead of using methane run through
[1:39:53] them we run hydrogen. Uh natural gas but
[1:39:56] add to that some carbon capture or
[1:39:58] geothermal. Okay these are sort of at a
[1:40:02] high level the sort of five main
[1:40:03] options. And the challenges with each of
[1:40:06] these reservoir hydro, do we have any
[1:40:08] availability? Are we really building any
[1:40:10] new reservoir hydro? Um there's in
[1:40:14] Alberta, there's always been a potential
[1:40:15] project in the north east of the
[1:40:17] province that really hasn't moved
[1:40:19] forward and I don't know if it ever
[1:40:21] will. Uh BC ran into so many challenges
[1:40:23] on site C. They've announced that's
[1:40:25] going to be their last large major
[1:40:27] hydro. Quebec is still building large
[1:40:29] hydro, but they're um um maybe the last
[1:40:33] one uh remaining. So, reservoir hydro is
[1:40:35] challenging. Nuclear, there's a big push
[1:40:37] for nuclear. I'm I'm a proponent. I I
[1:40:40] think it's it's a valuable source. It's
[1:40:42] the the energy density is what excites
[1:40:44] me on it. The question there in addition
[1:40:47] to this, so lead time uh is one. If
[1:40:50] we're talking about nuclear, we're
[1:40:51] really not talking for anything in
[1:40:53] production for at least 15 years
[1:40:55] realistically. cost. Also, these nuclear
[1:40:58] plants are going to be significantly
[1:40:59] more expensive. The other challenge with
[1:41:01] nuclear is flexibility. Nuclear does not
[1:41:04] like being flexible. Nuclear likes
[1:41:06] setting it and running it. Okay, they
[1:41:08] run in a high 90% capacity factor. Um,
[1:41:12] which is nice for a base, but it isn't
[1:41:14] what you want to fill your system with
[1:41:16] because at the end of the day, we need a
[1:41:17] system that can move up and down. Okay.
[1:41:20] Uh, hydrogen turbines very costly. I've
[1:41:23] done a lot of work on hydrogen. Um, it's
[1:41:25] exciting. It's to think about I like the
[1:41:27] idea of dual fuel power plants that can
[1:41:29] run either on methane or hydrogen but um
[1:41:32] there's some brittleization of steel
[1:41:35] associated with it and the production of
[1:41:37] clean hydrogen is very expensive still
[1:41:40] natural gas with carbon capture um if
[1:41:43] that's going to work anywhere it's
[1:41:45] Alberta where we have the caverns where
[1:41:47] we have the cheap natural gas so we'll
[1:41:49] see where that goes um I think it's
[1:41:51] something worth considering because it
[1:41:53] does allow us to continue with the
[1:41:55] existing industry that we have, the
[1:41:57] jobs, the society, if you will. Um, but
[1:42:01] technologically it's challenging.
[1:42:03] Natural gas CCS on a power plant hasn't
[1:42:05] been done successfully yet. Okay?
[1:42:07] Certainly not economic yet. And so,
[1:42:09] while there's potential for this, um I
[1:42:13] I'm I'm sort of a believer of when I
[1:42:15] when I see it. That is an area where um
[1:42:18] councelor Penner, you talked about
[1:42:19] subsidies. that that's one where I do
[1:42:21] believe in subsidies in the sense of
[1:42:23] it's it's it's helping us learn and so
[1:42:27] that's one of the purpose of public
[1:42:28] subsidies is in areas where you want to
[1:42:30] go down a learning curve where a private
[1:42:32] company simply wouldn't make the
[1:42:34] investment because it's not near
[1:42:35] economic if they can if we can learn
[1:42:37] something and that can be a spill over
[1:42:39] to others to use that that's where
[1:42:42] there's value so I think that's an area
[1:42:43] where you are seeing subsidies and some
[1:42:45] people would argue like they dislike
[1:42:47] those subsidies as much as other people
[1:42:49] dislike like renewable subsidies. I I
[1:42:51] see the same case for early renewable
[1:42:53] subsidies that helped us. That's part of
[1:42:55] the reason why we've came down that that
[1:42:57] cost curve. Okay, we were able to learn
[1:43:00] by doing. Geothermal is is is quite
[1:43:03] interesting. There's lots of different
[1:43:04] technologies. There's sort of the
[1:43:06] traditional go deep and hit hot rock.
[1:43:08] But there's also some local companies.
[1:43:10] Full disclosure, I'm I'm investor in one
[1:43:13] of them, Ever Geothermal, which does
[1:43:16] closed loop. So, it doesn't need hot
[1:43:17] rock. it just goes and uses directional
[1:43:20] drilling. So those were some folks uh
[1:43:22] that I knew from Senovas that started
[1:43:23] that company that said why don't we use
[1:43:25] this directional drilling to do
[1:43:26] something different than fracking.
[1:43:28] Instead they're going and they're
[1:43:30] creating effectively large heat
[1:43:31] exchangers like kilometer long heat
[1:43:33] exchangers and getting relatively low uh
[1:43:35] heat differentials to produce either
[1:43:38] low-level heat steam um uh but they're
[1:43:41] using those through microurbines to
[1:43:43] produce power. That's an Alberta
[1:43:44] company. It's doing quite well. We just
[1:43:46] installed some stuff in in the
[1:43:47] Netherlands.
[1:43:50] Storage directly solves the
[1:43:52] intermittency challenge. Okay, you have
[1:43:54] too much power at one time. It's really
[1:43:55] really sunny, there's too much power in
[1:43:56] the province, store that up and release
[1:43:59] it or discharge it in the evening. But
[1:44:01] the re that works really well on a day
[1:44:04] in dayout basis. That's why you're
[1:44:05] seeing so much of it in California and
[1:44:08] in Texas. Um, but the real issue here in
[1:44:11] Alberta is seasonal storage. Okay. I
[1:44:15] told you earlier that solar capacity
[1:44:17] factor is around 20%. It's kind of on
[1:44:20] average for the year, but in the summer
[1:44:22] it can be in the low to mid30s. That's
[1:44:25] sort of an average summer and the winter
[1:44:26] 5 to 10%.
[1:44:28] >> Okay. We need power all year round and
[1:44:31] » Okay. We need power all year round and
[1:44:31] some would argue more so in the winter.
[1:44:32] Um and so seasonal storage is is
[1:44:35] challenging. So that makes some of the
[1:44:37] battery technology that we have out
[1:44:39] there um that's not suited for seasonal
[1:44:41] storage. Lithium ion is good for 4 to
[1:44:43] eight hours. Uh pumped hydro is one that
[1:44:46] has some potential. Compressed air
[1:44:49] energy storage is something that there's
[1:44:51] again some Alberta companies looking at
[1:44:53] this that offers seasonal storage. Okay.
[1:44:57] So there you're compressing air or even
[1:44:59] CO2 into a cavern and you're releasing
[1:45:02] that at some other time and getting that
[1:45:05] discharge pressure and energy. And so
[1:45:07] there's something that you can do
[1:45:08] seasonal storage with. Hydrogen. There
[1:45:11] was a lot of hype for hydrogen because
[1:45:12] it is simply a medium. Okay, you can you
[1:45:15] can use that excess power at times um to
[1:45:18] electrolyze water for example and create
[1:45:20] that hydrogen and use that hydrogen for
[1:45:23] purposes of generating power in other
[1:45:25] time periods. Okay, so there are options
[1:45:27] out there. Pumped hydro is the biggest
[1:45:29] source of energy storage right now
[1:45:30] globally, but batteries are the ones
[1:45:32] that are rising the fastest.
[1:45:36] Transmission
[1:45:37] um I mentioned that intercan project
[1:45:39] we're working on. This to me is kind of
[1:45:41] the holy grail in Canada. We have very
[1:45:44] limited east west transmission
[1:45:45] connections uh for good reason but
[1:45:48] there's lots of reasons why that should
[1:45:49] change now and and one of the reasons is
[1:45:52] comp taking advantage of these very
[1:45:55] different types of systems we have so
[1:45:57] Saskatchewan and Alberta have this sort
[1:46:00] of fossilri and a renewablesrich systems
[1:46:03] very sunny um BC and Manitoba are hydror
[1:46:08] sources are actually very expensive um
[1:46:10] BC just had a call for for wind power.
[1:46:14] They bought three gigawatts of wind
[1:46:16] power uh three gawatt hours annually
[1:46:18] sorry of wind power about 1500 megawatts
[1:46:20] and uh they paid it's not public but it
[1:46:23] it's it's expected to be in the area of
[1:46:25] 70 to $85 per megawatt hour was the
[1:46:28] average price here in Alberta our wind
[1:46:31] calls were in the high30s
[1:46:33] okay so we should be building more wind
[1:46:35] in Alberta
[1:46:37] and more transmission with BC and
[1:46:39] flowing there and then taking the hydro
[1:46:41] back in this direction in periods when
[1:46:43] we don't have it. Instead, we're
[1:46:45] stopping building wind in our province
[1:46:46] and they're building double the cost
[1:46:48] wind over there. So, transmission is is
[1:46:51] is um something that can take advantage
[1:46:54] of that. But there are a myriad of
[1:46:56] challenges let alone the challenges of
[1:46:58] building linear infrastructure of any
[1:47:00] type in the country as we know with with
[1:47:02] land rights challenges uh for power.
[1:47:05] There's differences in market structure.
[1:47:07] Okay, we we are a competitive private
[1:47:11] generation market here in uh Alberta and
[1:47:14] they're a crown corporation monopoly uh
[1:47:16] in BC, similarly Saskatchewan and
[1:47:18] Manitoba. And so trading between the
[1:47:21] two, while we do it, it isn't without
[1:47:23] its challenges in terms of reciprocity
[1:47:25] and distribution of the benefits. So
[1:47:27] that's something that we are we are
[1:47:29] working at um right now. The last one is
[1:47:33] flexible demand. This doesn't get as
[1:47:35] much attention. I love this quote I
[1:47:37] found somewhere. It said, 'If the old
[1:47:39] world was forecasting demand and
[1:47:41] dispatching supply, the new world
[1:47:43] involves forecasting supply and
[1:47:45] dispatching demand. So there's more need
[1:47:48] for flexibility, okay? Because we have
[1:47:50] more intermittency. Uh there's bigger
[1:47:52] flexible loads out there. Electric
[1:47:55] vehicles are a really good case in
[1:47:57] point. They're re yeah reasonably large
[1:48:00] demand, but they're very flexible on
[1:48:02] when they charge. And I can show you
[1:48:04] some studies I've done with Foris and
[1:48:05] NMAX in terms of how easy it is to shift
[1:48:08] when they charge and how valuable that
[1:48:10] is to the grid to get them to do it and
[1:48:12] how painful it is if they don't. There's
[1:48:14] also cheap control technology. Um how
[1:48:17] many of you have like a Nest or an EcoB
[1:48:20] or Honeywell thermostat? All of these
[1:48:22] things can be moved around um without
[1:48:25] the the painful effort on the part of
[1:48:27] the consumer. Electric vehicles being a
[1:48:29] really good example. I think one of the
[1:48:31] counselors mentioned data centers.
[1:48:33] That's another one where the the big um
[1:48:36] to me the big push for data centers
[1:48:38] while they're there going to be very big
[1:48:39] loads.
[1:48:40] The value from them would be can we get
[1:48:42] some flexibility out of them. Okay, most
[1:48:46] data centers, it's surprising me
[1:48:47] training data centers, the ones that are
[1:48:49] doing training of models run quite high
[1:48:52] capacity factors 90% of the time, but
[1:48:54] the ones for inference when you do your
[1:48:55] chat GPT query, those deep data centers
[1:48:57] are used about 60 to 70% of the time.
[1:49:00] Can we get the flexibility to shift
[1:49:03] which data centers are used when we make
[1:49:06] that query? Okay. So, if Al a part of
[1:49:08] Alberta is in a power crunch, your
[1:49:11] question on what's the the the the best
[1:49:13] temperature for a lamb roast gets sent
[1:49:15] to Wyoming. Okay. And that's something
[1:49:18] we had a conference a few months ago.
[1:49:20] Microsoft was up. That's exactly what
[1:49:22] they're working on is using basically
[1:49:25] the internet to arbitrage power
[1:49:27] location. So, when you have high prices
[1:49:29] of power in one location, they shift
[1:49:32] their inference or their queries to
[1:49:34] other data centers. That's tremendously
[1:49:36] valuable because power is cheap about
[1:49:39] 80% of the time and it's those 20% of
[1:49:41] ours that get very expensive. So the
[1:49:44] more flexibility we have to shift it
[1:49:46] more um easier it will be to integrate
[1:49:48] those large loads.
[1:49:50] Just have a couple more slides. Um I'll
[1:49:53] stop talking. This this is uh on demand
[1:49:56] response. This was a study uh it was
[1:49:58] actually in British Columbia that I did
[1:50:02] which ran peak events once every roughly
[1:50:05] two weeks randomly to households. We had
[1:50:06] about 2,000 households in in the lower
[1:50:09] mainland.
[1:50:10] Um where we gave them they were paid
[1:50:13] anywhere from$1 to $6 per event for
[1:50:16] reducing their power consumption in
[1:50:18] their home depending on how much they
[1:50:20] did. Okay. uh which was a reasonable
[1:50:23] reasonably large amount relative to
[1:50:25] their um to their bills
[1:50:28] and what we did was we provided uh some
[1:50:32] of those this manual group over here we
[1:50:35] simply sent them a message okay so all
[1:50:37] these folks had this BC hydro app we
[1:50:39] sent them a message saying you have an
[1:50:41] event coming up if you reduce your
[1:50:42] consumption you can earn see what they
[1:50:44] did and you can see we got about a 5%
[1:50:46] average reduction in consumption during
[1:50:49] these peak periods from them another
[1:50:51] group this tech group, we said the same,
[1:50:52] but we also equipped them with load
[1:50:54] controllers. So, we actually got
[1:50:55] electrician go into their house, put
[1:50:57] load controllers on their um on their
[1:51:00] HVAC system, on their hot water tank,
[1:51:03] their electric tanks over there, and uh
[1:51:06] EV chargers for the ones that had them.
[1:51:08] And there they would get this message
[1:51:10] and they could simply push a button on
[1:51:12] their phone to say, "Yep, I want to
[1:51:14] reduce consumption on my controllable
[1:51:16] devices right now." So, made it really
[1:51:18] easy for them. But interestingly, we
[1:51:20] didn't get any benefit from installing
[1:51:22] that costly tech uh over the manual
[1:51:25] group. Then the third one, what we
[1:51:27] called central, we basically flipped the
[1:51:29] default. So we had those people with
[1:51:30] load controllers and we said there's an
[1:51:32] event coming up. We will be dimming
[1:51:34] those devices of yours. Okay? We will be
[1:51:36] delaying heating. Uh we will be delaying
[1:51:39] heating your hot water tank or your
[1:51:40] charging. These are two-hour events,
[1:51:42] three-hour events. Um press this button
[1:51:46] if you don't want us to do this. Okay.
[1:51:48] And so just by flipping that that that
[1:51:50] that that default, we got about a 27%
[1:51:53] reduction
[1:51:55] um in consumption there. And we did
[1:51:57] expost surveys, you know, did we annoy
[1:51:59] you by doing this? Did you find yourself
[1:52:01] in they most people said we didn't even
[1:52:02] know you did it. Okay, these are tanked
[1:52:04] hot water systems. They hot water last
[1:52:06] for 24 hours. So you don't shifting
[1:52:09] heating is not even noticed by the
[1:52:11] consumer. So this is getting a bit of a
[1:52:13] behavioral aspect of you can't just give
[1:52:15] people technology. You need to make it
[1:52:17] easy for them. The last one, this was
[1:52:19] here locally. This was in Calgary. This
[1:52:21] was on an EV charging pilot where we
[1:52:25] wanted to see would people respond to
[1:52:27] time of use rates for electricity. So,
[1:52:30] we gave them cheaper overnight rates. It
[1:52:32] was a 3.5 cent per kilowatt hour
[1:52:34] discount on power consumed between 10
[1:52:37] p.m. and 6 a.m. And what you see here,
[1:52:40] so the rewards group got that got that
[1:52:42] reward and you saw a really big increase
[1:52:44] in their off peak or overnight charging.
[1:52:47] So about 80% of their charging shifted
[1:52:49] to overnight. Okay. Versus the control
[1:52:52] group which would we didn't get any we
[1:52:54] didn't offer them anything. And then
[1:52:56] there was an education group where we
[1:52:58] didn't pay them to shift, but we told
[1:52:59] them, "Hey, it'd be really nice, be
[1:53:01] really swell if you did this. It's
[1:53:03] really important for the grid. Um kind
[1:53:04] of a moral persuasion nudge." There was
[1:53:07] no impact from that. People didn't do it
[1:53:08] for the goodness of their hearts. So the
[1:53:10] story of this, I think we called this
[1:53:11] paper show me the money was if people um
[1:53:15] uh see these difference in prices and
[1:53:17] this this is not a subsidy. This is
[1:53:19] really reflecting the fact power is a
[1:53:21] lot cheaper overnight. And right now in
[1:53:23] Alberta, we don't convey that to
[1:53:25] consumers that everyone pays the same
[1:53:26] price across the day. But giving people
[1:53:30] more of a signal to you can save money
[1:53:31] if you shift some of your consumption
[1:53:33] overnight. For many applications, that's
[1:53:36] simply not feasible. You're not going to
[1:53:38] touch it. Uh but for EV charging, it is
[1:53:41] quite easy. Okay? And that really comes
[1:53:43] down to the fact that the service you
[1:53:45] get from an EV driving is divorced from
[1:53:48] the electricity use charging on account
[1:53:50] of that battery.
[1:53:53] Um, I've been an hour, Caroline, so I
[1:53:55] could stop. I have some slides on market
[1:53:57] design if you guys want to go further.
[1:54:00] Um, but I thought maybe I can pause,
[1:54:02] >> give a chance for questions.
[1:54:04] » give a chance for questions.
[1:54:04] >> Okay. Um, counces, please.
[1:54:07] » Okay. Um, counces, please.
[1:54:07] >> You're talking about the public um, with
[1:54:10] » You're talking about the public um, with
[1:54:10] that last little bit of a presentation
[1:54:12] about them getting the benefits of it.
[1:54:14] Was any thought given to um corporations
[1:54:18] that reside within our province, so to
[1:54:21] speak, or wherever? Did you guys do data
[1:54:22] on that as well if they did their
[1:54:24] because sometimes, you know, when you're
[1:54:25] driving at night and you're going past
[1:54:27] the walnuts of the world or whatever box
[1:54:30] store we go to, um the electricity on
[1:54:33] the outside, it's running all over and
[1:54:35] no one's really in the store. So, are we
[1:54:37] also putting that factoring that in as
[1:54:40] well as just what we're doing on every
[1:54:41] day in my house?
[1:54:42] >> Yeah. Yeah. Great question, actually. I
[1:54:44] » Yeah. Yeah. Great question, actually. I
[1:54:44] love an anecdote when I worked at BC
[1:54:46] Hydro. BC Hydro this big powers smart
[1:54:48] campaign to turn off your lights at
[1:54:50] night and then it was on the news the BC
[1:54:52] Hydro headquarters was just lit up and
[1:54:55] the first the spokesperson was like well
[1:54:57] it really hurts our light bulbs to be
[1:54:59] turning them on and off so it's a lot
[1:55:00] easier.
[1:55:02] >> Um lighting actually interestingly is
[1:55:04] » Um lighting actually interestingly is
[1:55:04] not important anymore. These LED
[1:55:06] lighting um I have a current monitor in
[1:55:09] my house. I monitor all my circuits. I'm
[1:55:10] a nerd and I'll turn all my lights on
[1:55:13] and I don't even see the current change.
[1:55:15] It's just the LED lights are such a, you
[1:55:19] know, is 90% 94% less than incandescent.
[1:55:23] Lighting isn't a big one. Um, on
[1:55:25] corporations, absolutely. Um, this
[1:55:27] particular study was was residential EVs
[1:55:30] and the BC one was residential, but
[1:55:34] commercial for Oh, let me let me back
[1:55:36] up. On the industrial level, we already
[1:55:38] have this push. So many industrial
[1:55:40] customers are directly connected and
[1:55:42] face the hourly prices. Um throughout my
[1:55:44] career as a trader, we often had deals
[1:55:46] with some of them. Newsprint companies
[1:55:48] are some of the best. They're very
[1:55:49] flexible when they use their power where
[1:55:51] we would offer them kind of option-l
[1:55:53] like contracts to change their
[1:55:55] consumption. Um yeah, throughout our
[1:55:58] career, industrial is already heavily
[1:56:00] engaged. Commercial,
[1:56:03] um I would say is just the same
[1:56:05] applicability as residential. Currently
[1:56:07] in Alberta, they don't have the
[1:56:08] possibility of time of use rates. Um,
[1:56:11] but they would certainly be in the
[1:56:13] conversation for for getting it. Um,
[1:56:16] there's mixed studies out there about
[1:56:18] the responsiveness of commercial. So on
[1:56:21] some level, because they have a it's a
[1:56:23] higher share of costs and they might be
[1:56:24] more profit focused, you would expect a
[1:56:27] bit more responsiveness, but on others,
[1:56:28] they're inflexible. They don't want to
[1:56:30] adjust things in their business. They
[1:56:32] don't want any inconvenience. So there's
[1:56:34] sort of mixed results and it's going to
[1:56:35] depend on the type of business it is and
[1:56:38] and the the type of electric service.
[1:56:42] >> Councel,
[1:56:45] » I know we're talking energy production
[1:56:47] here and all sorts of uh different types
[1:56:50] of ways to produce energy
[1:56:53] and really energy is not the problem for
[1:56:58] for us. It is actually the transmission
[1:57:01] and distribution costs.
[1:57:04] Because the cost of the power itself is
[1:57:06] not bad. It's getting it to us.
[1:57:09] >> Yeah.
[1:57:10] » Yeah.
[1:57:10] >> And that's what we need to fix. I don't
[1:57:12] » And that's what we need to fix. I don't
[1:57:12] care how you fix it, but it should be
[1:57:14] more equal throughout the province. I I
[1:57:16] I would think, but
[1:57:19] >> I just a comment, I guess.
[1:57:22] » I just a comment, I guess.
[1:57:22] >> No, I love I I don't have the slide in
[1:57:24] » No, I love I I don't have the slide in
[1:57:24] here, but the one I my my intro to
[1:57:26] electricity markets course, the first
[1:57:27] thing I do is say energy is only a part
[1:57:29] of your bill as a retailer. In fact,
[1:57:31] it's like less than a third these days.
[1:57:33] Depending on where you are out here,
[1:57:35] it'd be much less than a third. Um,
[1:57:37] actually, maybe not here, but further
[1:57:39] north. Um,
[1:57:42] yeah, if you're in Atco territory, and
[1:57:44] no disparaging onco if you're listening,
[1:57:47] um, it's significantly higher
[1:57:49] distribution costs. Your point on should
[1:57:52] we have postage stamp distribution costs
[1:57:54] around the province, I'm of mixed minds
[1:57:56] on that. I know that in other provinces
[1:57:58] like BC and Saskatchewan and our
[1:57:59] neighbors where it's one distribution
[1:58:01] utility, there is a cross subsidy across
[1:58:03] the province. Here you have different
[1:58:05] distribution utilities. So you'd be
[1:58:07] asking somehow uh INMAX customers to
[1:58:12] cross subsidize ACO. There's a good
[1:58:14] reason why distribution costs are higher
[1:58:15] in ACO's territory. you have less
[1:58:17] customers per substation, per
[1:58:20] transformer, per feeder line, simply
[1:58:22] because of um it's the same reason why
[1:58:25] milk is more expensive in Northwest
[1:58:27] Territories. Um you know, it it's I I'm
[1:58:32] not I'm personally am not convinced that
[1:58:34] we should have postage stamp pricing.
[1:58:36] I'm actually a proponent of
[1:58:38] locationational pricing across all
[1:58:40] aspects of our um power system to try to
[1:58:44] reflect that both energy and cost to
[1:58:47] serve really varies by where you are. Um
[1:58:50] but I I totally appreciate that there's
[1:58:52] a fairness issue and that's probably not
[1:58:53] wellreceived in the areas that that does
[1:58:55] face those higher prices, but I think to
[1:58:58] some extent that's known that's
[1:59:00] capitalized in in housing costes costs
[1:59:03] um in land costs. user pay.
[1:59:07] >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, there's a
[1:59:09] » Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, there's a
[1:59:09] trade-off between the user pay principle
[1:59:11] and kind of this fairness concept and um
[1:59:15] you know, one province. Um your other
[1:59:18] comment though about transmission and
[1:59:20] distribution or wires costs, I 100%
[1:59:23] agree with you on that one. Um if you
[1:59:26] look at energy costs, the United States
[1:59:28] has some great charts on this. the the
[1:59:31] EIA, Energy Information Administration,
[1:59:34] generation costs on average in real
[1:59:36] terms have actually been falling for the
[1:59:38] last 10 years. So even though we talk
[1:59:40] about, you know, high prices at times
[1:59:42] and even here in Alberta, even here in
[1:59:44] Alberta, we had that spike in 2021 to
[1:59:46] 23, which was largely driven by economic
[1:59:48] withholding, on average, our energy
[1:59:51] costs have been down in real terms,
[1:59:54] inflation adjusted. What's rising is
[1:59:56] wires costs and a lot of my current
[2:00:01] research is f focused on distribution
[2:00:03] costs because that's the one I think is
[2:00:06] going to be I think there's a fork in
[2:00:09] the road there where done poorly
[2:00:11] distribution costs are going to explode
[2:00:14] as we electrify and have much larger
[2:00:17] loads at home so let alone air
[2:00:19] conditioners start adding EVs heat pumps
[2:00:22] these big spiky loads
[2:00:25] um that done one way it's going to get
[2:00:27] very expensive. Um I'll mayulpa my
[2:00:32] street in Calgary. I have an electric
[2:00:34] vehicle. Two of my neighbors have one
[2:00:37] and we just had our transformer in our
[2:00:39] alley upgraded. Okay.
[2:00:42] Everyone shares in that cost. Opposite
[2:00:44] of user pay. I don't pay for that
[2:00:46] upgrade. Everyone pays for that.
[2:00:49] I did a study with Foris on how can we
[2:00:53] get around that upgrade cost and there's
[2:00:56] a program called managed charging where
[2:00:58] it takes into account that say Mike is
[2:01:00] my neighbor and and Wade is our his
[2:01:02] neighbor and we coordinate it allows us
[2:01:06] to sequence that charging because the
[2:01:08] reality is EVs are plugged in for 13
[2:01:11] hours at home on average and charge for
[2:01:14] about 50 minutes 50 on average there's a
[2:01:17] lot of flexib ibility on when to do it.
[2:01:19] And the worst case scenario is I, Mike,
[2:01:24] and Wade all get home at 5:00 p.m., plug
[2:01:27] in right when the rest of the load is
[2:01:29] surging, and we kind of not blow up, but
[2:01:32] put a lot of stress on that transformer,
[2:01:33] and then NMAX goes and says, "We need to
[2:01:35] replace it." Instead,
[2:01:38] first of all, we could both delay our
[2:01:39] charging to midnight, but better than
[2:01:40] that, because if we all go on at
[2:01:42] midnight, it's fine for the energy
[2:01:43] system, but that local transformer gets
[2:01:46] overloaded. I go at midnight for an
[2:01:48] hour. Mike goes at 1:00 am and Wade goes
[2:01:50] at 2 am. We're clearly not going to have
[2:01:52] a conversation and organize that. But
[2:01:54] that's where technology comes in. Okay.
[2:01:57] Sign up for these managed charging
[2:01:59] programs that simply manage that for
[2:02:01] you. Some people find that
[2:02:02] uncomfortable. When when we launched
[2:02:03] this in forest territory, the comment
[2:02:04] section was pretty pretty um um colorful
[2:02:08] in terms of managing loads. Um, but when
[2:02:11] people got paid a little bit per month
[2:02:13] and said, you know, the the fuel for
[2:02:16] your vehicle will be $20 a month cheaper
[2:02:19] if you just let us sequence you when
[2:02:21] your transformer is overloaded. We're
[2:02:22] going to shift it around. Sure. Didn't
[2:02:25] even notice. Okay. And we're seeing
[2:02:27] those types of programs um um explode in
[2:02:31] the United States where there is like in
[2:02:33] places like California where there's a
[2:02:34] lot of EVs as managed charging. So it's
[2:02:37] a technical solution to very much avoid
[2:02:39] that thing because I think without that
[2:02:42] uncontrolled large loads are going to
[2:02:44] put a lot of stress on distribution
[2:02:46] networks but I'm trying to be a bit more
[2:02:48] optimistic recognizing there is a lot of
[2:02:50] ability to now control the timing of
[2:02:52] those loads shift away from peaks.
[2:02:55] >> That's a great point.
[2:02:56] » That's a great point.
[2:02:56] >> So we've gotten into this whole
[2:02:57] » So we've gotten into this whole
[2:02:57] conversation around distribution and
[2:03:00] managing and moving power from one place
[2:03:02] to another. The real question in my mind
[2:03:05] and I know there's a society
[2:03:06] responsibility that we all have and
[2:03:08] rural currently is carrying the load for
[2:03:11] the renewables. Why aren't they placing
[2:03:13] the power development closer to the
[2:03:16] consumers? So we carry the
[2:03:19] responsibility for solar and wind and
[2:03:22] the land usage takes place under our
[2:03:25] jurisdiction but the power usage isn't
[2:03:27] necessarily here. We don't get any
[2:03:30] benefit by having the generation here in
[2:03:32] terms of lower cost for distribution
[2:03:35] lower cost of power whatever
[2:03:38] >> but we carry the burden in terms of the
[2:03:41] » but we carry the burden in terms of the
[2:03:41] footprint and the aesthetics and so on.
[2:03:45] >> The big consumers they don't want that
[2:03:47] » The big consumers they don't want that
[2:03:47] footprint nor do they want the
[2:03:48] aesthetics. So why aren't we looking at
[2:03:52] where the power is generated and where
[2:03:54] the consumers are and trying to put them
[2:03:56] close together.
[2:03:57] >> Yeah, that's a great question. I this I
[2:03:59] » Yeah, that's a great question. I this I
[2:03:59] can segue in. So this is the
[2:04:00] restructured energy market final design.
[2:04:02] I had a bunch of slides about Alberta's
[2:04:04] system. I'll skip over and this is kind
[2:04:07] of the summary of the of the design. And
[2:04:09] that the top line there is
[2:04:10] locationational pricing. So that's a big
[2:04:13] change. This is in the energy market,
[2:04:15] not distribution but in the energy
[2:04:16] market to have locationational prices
[2:04:18] for the generation side. Okay. So that
[2:04:22] you would now see that placing
[2:04:25] generation in the southeast of the
[2:04:27] province where we have a lot of solar
[2:04:29] that's come in and we don't have
[2:04:31] necessarily great transmission to take
[2:04:33] it to load centers. It will start
[2:04:35] receiving a lower price and it will
[2:04:37] disincentivize production in those
[2:04:39] areas. Whereas a load center maybe like
[2:04:42] Calgary would face a higher price and it
[2:04:46] would attract generation to that area
[2:04:48] because it's on the other side of a of a
[2:04:50] transmission constraint. So that sort of
[2:04:53] gets at maybe right now when you have
[2:04:56] uniform pricing, you're just simply
[2:04:58] going to go where a the resource is
[2:05:00] strongest. It's a little bit sunnier out
[2:05:02] here than Calgary, but also land costs.
[2:05:05] It's going to be a little bit cheaper
[2:05:06] here than and closer to town. Um, but if
[2:05:10] there's no distinction on the value of
[2:05:12] that generation, you're simply going
[2:05:13] where the lowest cost and best resource
[2:05:14] is. So I think that's why you're you're
[2:05:16] seeing that. So this should go some way
[2:05:17] to doing that. On the consumer side,
[2:05:20] this is an interesting policy choice.
[2:05:23] The province was very averse to local
[2:05:25] locationational pricing on the consumer
[2:05:27] side. They really didn't like the idea
[2:05:30] unlike distribution. They didn't want to
[2:05:32] go down the path of the distribution
[2:05:34] issues that we face now with four
[2:05:36] different prices. So they wanted to keep
[2:05:38] one uniform price. So we're going to
[2:05:40] maintain cross subsidies on the
[2:05:42] consumption side with the ability to opt
[2:05:45] into locationational pricing. So if you
[2:05:48] live in an area that has significantly
[2:05:51] lower energy prices because of location
[2:05:55] pricing, you can choose to participate
[2:05:57] in that. But it's a one-time election.
[2:05:58] You simply you can't go back and forth
[2:06:00] when it's cheaper. So that could offer
[2:06:02] that opportunity. On the distribution
[2:06:05] side of things, one of the things you're
[2:06:08] seeing is more distribution connected um
[2:06:11] solar uh to a degree wind so that you're
[2:06:15] able to put forth that cheaper
[2:06:17] generation directly into the
[2:06:19] distribution network and benefit those
[2:06:20] consumers in that local area. So some
[2:06:23] development happens there. Most of it
[2:06:24] happens at the transmission scale.
[2:06:27] >> I don't know if that helps answer your
[2:06:29] » I don't know if that helps answer your
[2:06:29] question. No, I it it it's something
[2:06:32] that we deal with in a rural environment
[2:06:35] where we carry the burden for the
[2:06:38] development of those facilities
[2:06:40] >> and they're not necessarily always that
[2:06:44] » and they're not necessarily always that
[2:06:44] popular
[2:06:45] >> in a rural environment, but they're not
[2:06:47] » in a rural environment, but they're not
[2:06:47] popular in an urban environment either.
[2:06:50] And so because of the
[2:06:54] I'm going to say the influence of
[2:06:58] numbers of people,
[2:07:00] >> it forces that generation to move away
[2:07:02] » it forces that generation to move away
[2:07:02] from where it's actually the power is
[2:07:04] going to be used.
[2:07:05] >> So if I'm a
[2:07:08] » So if I'm a
[2:07:08] $5 million homeowner on Coach Hill in
[2:07:10] Calgary and you talk to me about wind
[2:07:13] generation directly west of my home,
[2:07:16] it's not ever going to happen. But if I
[2:07:19] happen to be a $500,000 acreage owner in
[2:07:22] Neil County and you talk to me about
[2:07:24] wind generation directly to the west of
[2:07:26] my home,
[2:07:27] >> the odds are much higher that it's going
[2:07:28] » the odds are much higher that it's going
[2:07:28] to happen here.
[2:07:29] >> Yeah.
[2:07:30] » Yeah.
[2:07:30] >> than there. And so that's
[2:07:32] » than there. And so that's
[2:07:32] >> when I when I say the burden gets
[2:07:34] » when I when I say the burden gets
[2:07:34] shifted to rural, it it's those kind of
[2:07:37] things because it's much easier. Land
[2:07:39] cost, everything is less.
[2:07:41] >> Yeah. But it doesn't take the burden off
[2:07:43] » Yeah. But it doesn't take the burden off
[2:07:43] our transmission, nor does it put the
[2:07:46] onus on those who are demanding the
[2:07:48] power to have the power close to them.
[2:07:51] And so to me, there's a there's a
[2:07:53] disconnect. And I understand all the
[2:07:56] reasons why the disconnect is there.
[2:07:59] Doesn't make it any easier to deal with
[2:08:01] when you're sitting in our environment.
[2:08:02] >> Understood. Understood. Yeah. I think
[2:08:05] » Understood. Understood. Yeah. I think
[2:08:05] this is why, you know, I when I started
[2:08:07] on the market design um working group, I
[2:08:09] was a really strong advocate of
[2:08:11] locationational pricing for this very
[2:08:12] reason. You need to reflect the value in
[2:08:15] locations and that would that would push
[2:08:17] a developer who's on the fence between
[2:08:18] building in Khill County versus Rocky um
[2:08:22] U County, maybe somewhere closer to
[2:08:23] Calgary for that very reason that if you
[2:08:25] cross a transmission cut plane and you
[2:08:27] get across a congestion point, there's
[2:08:29] higher value there. So you might start
[2:08:31] to see the the offsetting value
[2:08:33] differences take away from the the the
[2:08:36] land use differentials. The reality is
[2:08:38] we simply don't have quarter sections
[2:08:39] within the city of Calgary. Um so you're
[2:08:41] going to have that but there are the
[2:08:43] flip side and you guys would know this
[2:08:44] far better than I but um you know you're
[2:08:48] going to get some property taxes from
[2:08:49] the construction. So it's not without um
[2:08:52] without any benefit. I think more so
[2:08:54] it's it is a decision of the land owner
[2:08:57] >> you know. So if it was imposed upon you
[2:08:59] » you know. So if it was imposed upon you
[2:09:00] and the government expropriated land and
[2:09:01] said we're building this nuclear plant
[2:09:03] in your county or whatever plant it was
[2:09:06] I would greatly understand that you know
[2:09:09] cries of foul if it's a if it's a land
[2:09:11] owner of a quarter section saying this
[2:09:12] is the use of my land this is the
[2:09:14] highest value use of my land for me
[2:09:16] >> um and I'm making a private decision to
[2:09:18] » um and I'm making a private decision to
[2:09:18] do so I I I I totally get the um
[2:09:23] um how a neighbor could still uh not
[2:09:26] like that you know depending what I what
[2:09:28] I build on there.
[2:09:29] >> Um
[2:09:30] » Um
[2:09:30] >> but that is something that would be in
[2:09:32] » but that is something that would be in
[2:09:32] large part in the purview of that
[2:09:34] private land owner.
[2:09:34] >> Yeah. And and that's always the balance
[2:09:36] » Yeah. And and that's always the balance
[2:09:36] that we have to face is landowner rights
[2:09:39] and the ability of them to make maximum
[2:09:41] usage of their land. I will make the
[2:09:43] argument that you do have linear
[2:09:45] quarters of land in most cities along
[2:09:48] your transportation corridors and other
[2:09:50] places that are not being utilized that
[2:09:53] could be. Okay. So
[2:09:54] >> I would make that argument.
[2:09:56] » I would make that argument.
[2:09:56] >> Yeah. Fair.
[2:09:57] » Yeah. Fair.
[2:09:57] >> Councelor Penry,
[2:09:58] » Councelor Penry,
[2:09:58] >> I'm sorry. And we talk about quarter
[2:10:00] » I'm sorry. And we talk about quarter
[2:10:00] sections. Um, just look around Calgary
[2:10:02] on the outskirts of Calgary. There's
[2:10:03] quarter sections of warehouse after
[2:10:05] warehouse. Why are there not solar
[2:10:07] panels on those buildings?
[2:10:10] >> Yeah.
[2:10:11] » Yeah.
[2:10:11] >> And um, further to that, have you had
[2:10:13] » And um, further to that, have you had
[2:10:13] discussions with city planners and that
[2:10:15] kind like as part of your getting
[2:10:18] feedback,
[2:10:19] >> you know, because that's it's it is
[2:10:21] » you know, because that's it's it is
[2:10:21] there's quarter section after quarter
[2:10:23] section. Every time you go to the city,
[2:10:24] there's more of the land which we have
[2:10:26] to try and feed the world with taken
[2:10:29] away from us. You know,
[2:10:31] >> I think we should have panels on those
[2:10:33] » I think we should have panels on those
[2:10:33] flat roofs uh in the northeastern of
[2:10:35] Calgary for sure. I was just my daughter
[2:10:37] plays volleyball, so I drive around
[2:10:38] those warehouses. That's where all the
[2:10:40] volleyball courts are. Um I I absolutely
[2:10:43] think we should and to some degree there
[2:10:45] are uh more. I think that's simply a
[2:10:48] question of economics. Um what's the
[2:10:51] return on that? Um if it's if you're
[2:10:54] displacing your energy costs and I think
[2:10:56] councelor Whitlock Whittock already
[2:10:59] pointed out energy costs are relatively
[2:11:01] low um you're not getting much of a
[2:11:03] distribution benefit although you are
[2:11:04] getting that benefit for what's consumed
[2:11:06] and if you don't have location pricing
[2:11:08] to point out that the actual value of
[2:11:10] power within the city of Calgary proper
[2:11:12] is much higher than in Three Hills um
[2:11:17] you have less private reason to do so
[2:11:19] you know and um but I I think if we have
[2:11:23] this conversation 101 15 years from now
[2:11:26] or if we drove around those
[2:11:27] neighborhoods I would fully expect
[2:11:29] barring some even more egregious
[2:11:31] moratorum that we would see those
[2:11:33] because they simply make sense it's an
[2:11:35] already disturbed land flat roof it's
[2:11:37] easy to build on um we do have areas
[2:11:41] like um the souththeast of Calgary
[2:11:44] there's some reasonably large um solar
[2:11:46] developments by Atco um near the Shepard
[2:11:50] facility it's just Not I mean they look
[2:11:53] like a lot of land within the city of
[2:11:54] Calgary but they don't produce that much
[2:11:56] because it doesn't it pales in
[2:11:58] comparison to some of the ones out by
[2:12:00] Vulcan.
[2:12:01] >> Right. No and thank you for that. Sorry.
[2:12:03] » Right. No and thank you for that. Sorry.
[2:12:03] >> But yeah I agree with you that those do
[2:12:06] » But yeah I agree with you that those do
[2:12:06] make sense and I I should say like
[2:12:09] NMAX and the city of Calgary do look at
[2:12:11] those. I've been in some projects where
[2:12:13] with them where they do look at
[2:12:14] facilitating you know acceleration of
[2:12:17] commercial PV developments. But I think
[2:12:19] at the end of today's summit that
[2:12:21] reliability is what we need in rural
[2:12:24] Alberta here. Like we can't in the
[2:12:26] winter time
[2:12:27] >> have no power for a day or three days.
[2:12:29] » have no power for a day or three days.
[2:12:29] Like I'd love to see the city go without
[2:12:31] power for a full day or three days to
[2:12:33] see what happens. You know what I mean?
[2:12:34] It's it's a big job like for us out here
[2:12:37] and just because we don't have the
[2:12:38] numbers. It seems like we don't have the
[2:12:40] voice.
[2:12:41] >> So reliability is the biggest thing I
[2:12:44] » So reliability is the biggest thing I
[2:12:44] think for rural.
[2:12:46] >> Yeah. Yeah. Councelor Cuttingham, you
[2:12:49] » Yeah. Yeah. Councelor Cuttingham, you
[2:12:49] had a question.
[2:12:50] >> Yeah, just question a comment really. I
[2:12:52] » Yeah, just question a comment really. I
[2:12:52] I really appreciate you coming here
[2:12:53] because I think um like the Reeves
[2:12:55] comments, I think that's what we hear as
[2:12:57] municipal counselors in a rural
[2:12:59] environment. So, I appreciate uh
[2:13:01] somebody from a large urban center
[2:13:03] coming and hearing what the challenges
[2:13:05] that we face out here. Um it just it was
[2:13:07] funny. I I was at a meeting one time
[2:13:09] with a renewable company and one of our
[2:13:11] rateayers asked that company, "Well,
[2:13:13] will my um rates go down because I'm
[2:13:15] living across?" and they very honestly
[2:13:17] looked at him and said, "No, not a
[2:13:19] chance." So, I mean, at least they were
[2:13:20] honest with that. But, um, the economic
[2:13:22] withholding piece, uh, Minister Nudorf
[2:13:24] knows every time that we go to a
[2:13:25] convention that I'm going to ask him
[2:13:26] about that, so I'm going to keep doing
[2:13:28] that. But, looks like we're making some
[2:13:30] headway on that. But, when we talk about
[2:13:32] the decisions of the landowner, I think
[2:13:34] when councelor Phobus mentioned the
[2:13:36] reclamation piece, every time we do go
[2:13:38] to our conventions, um, reclamation of
[2:13:40] oil and gas is always one of the hot
[2:13:41] topics. And so I think for myself what I
[2:13:44] appreciated what the provincial
[2:13:46] government did was put that little bit
[2:13:47] of a moratorium on and say whoa like we
[2:13:50] don't want the renewables to become that
[2:13:52] oil and gas piece. We want to plan um we
[2:13:55] don't want that. So it comes back to the
[2:13:58] cost to the municipality which in
[2:13:59] essence is our rateayers and and us. So
[2:14:02] I think um while it doesn't seem like a
[2:14:05] huge issue right now we we have seen a
[2:14:07] lot of projects come to our area and our
[2:14:09] neighbor municipalities. So, we just
[2:14:10] want to get ahead of that recol
[2:14:12] reclamation piece so we're not having
[2:14:14] that same issue that we faced with oil
[2:14:16] and gas
[2:14:17] >> plan comes after and the money comes
[2:14:18] » plan comes after and the money comes
[2:14:18] after. We want that to be done before.
[2:14:21] So, I think that's where we're at with
[2:14:22] that.
[2:14:22] >> I get that. Yeah, makes sense.
[2:14:26] » I get that. Yeah, makes sense.
[2:14:26] >> Okay.
[2:14:28] » Okay.
[2:14:28] Um,
[2:14:30] are we now well educated about our
[2:14:33] energy production distribution and
[2:14:36] otherwise?
[2:14:38] I I was just going to say, Reef, could
[2:14:39] we have could we have a copy of these
[2:14:41] slides?
[2:14:42] >> Y
[2:14:43] » Y
[2:14:43] >> Mike and Caroline have them and I I just
[2:14:45] » Mike and Caroline have them and I I just
[2:14:45] posted my um my contact info there.
[2:14:49] It'll be in the slides, but I'm
[2:14:53] part of the reason why I left u
[2:14:55] industry. Uh wasn't for a pay raise.
[2:14:57] I'll tell you that
[2:14:59] was I enjoy doing this. I enjoy um
[2:15:03] getting involved in policy work and I
[2:15:04] have my areas of call it blinders or or
[2:15:07] weak spots and you know I look at
[2:15:10] systems as a whole. I I'm not uh
[2:15:12] ignorant to um the impacts on
[2:15:16] communities. Um but hearing from folks
[2:15:18] like you where like you pointed out uh
[2:15:20] Reef King, this is where the renewable
[2:15:22] development is happening and your
[2:15:24] concerns, your issues, your thoughts
[2:15:26] around it might differ from someone who
[2:15:28] lives in inner Calgary. So I I really
[2:15:30] appreciate hearing from you and feel
[2:15:32] free to reach out anytime. I'm happy to
[2:15:35] come back to
[2:15:38] >> Yeah. Go ahead, Council Per.
[2:15:39] » Yeah. Go ahead, Council Per.
[2:15:39] >> I sit on the drum solid waste and
[2:15:42] » I sit on the drum solid waste and
[2:15:42] association and the recycling uh it
[2:15:45] needs to this all needs to be on a halt
[2:15:47] until it is out there like Armor, the
[2:15:48] Alberta Recycling Management. That's we
[2:15:50] just have to point them to that. We
[2:15:51] can't even give them an answer to what
[2:15:53] they're doing with them. You know what I
[2:15:55] mean? Because there are lots that are
[2:15:56] broken while shipped. There are some
[2:15:58] that are damaged in construction and
[2:15:59] some other stuff. So, that recycling
[2:16:01] part is huge and as far as I'm
[2:16:03] concerned, it should all be on hold
[2:16:04] until there is a program in place. Um,
[2:16:07] just my opinion. Sorry. But like I said,
[2:16:10] I have to say to people, I don't know
[2:16:11] what they're doing with it. You just
[2:16:12] need to phone Alberta Armor and they'll
[2:16:16] tell you what to do with those panels.
[2:16:21] » Anyway, I'm going to say thank you very
[2:16:22] much, uh, Blake, Dr. Schaefer. Um,
[2:16:26] though you're not a medical doctor,
[2:16:28] you're still a doctor. Um, we very much
[2:16:30] appreciate the time that you've taken
[2:16:32] and I hope you felt it was worthwhile
[2:16:34] having the conversation with us. Um, we
[2:16:36] certainly feel that way the information
[2:16:38] is valuable to us and so thank you.
[2:16:41] >> Welcome.
[2:16:42] » Welcome.
[2:16:42] >> Appreciate you making the trip out and
[2:16:43] » Appreciate you making the trip out and
[2:16:43] if you brought your electric car, we
[2:16:46] wish you we wish you a safe trip home.
[2:16:50] >> Yeah. A long extension cord.
[2:16:53] » Yeah. A long extension cord.
[2:16:53] Thank you all.
[2:16:55] >> The other thing do I think with yourself
[2:16:57] » The other thing do I think with yourself
[2:16:57] coming out is if there's ever students
[2:16:58] or whatever they should come to our
[2:17:00] areas you know to to recommend to them
[2:17:02] to come to rural and listen to
[2:17:03] conversations like this you know because
[2:17:05] it is different urban to rural
[2:17:07] >> you know
[2:17:08] » you know
[2:17:08] >> I partic have you heard of the 10 peaks
[2:17:10] » I partic have you heard of the 10 peaks
[2:17:10] program
[2:17:11] >> I participate in that it's very
[2:17:13] » I participate in that it's very
[2:17:13] interesting it's uh run out of um lome
[2:17:17] and it's for rural central Alberta uh
[2:17:19] high school students to get a sense
[2:17:22] about energy and broadstrokes so it's
[2:17:25] the person who started is you from oil
[2:17:27] and gas but they're sort of wanting to
[2:17:29] get kids exposure to you know why are we
[2:17:31] talking about renewables why are we
[2:17:32] talking about carbon capture climate
[2:17:34] policy etc and um and I've gone out and
[2:17:39] there's maybe 600 kids in an auditorium
[2:17:41] in Lome and I give talks on
[2:17:43] >> does does an electric vehicle work in
[2:17:45] » does does an electric vehicle work in
[2:17:45] the winter it's it's really great
[2:17:49] because uh these kids ask great
[2:17:51] questions I think they come away from it
[2:17:54] with they they've learned something. The
[2:17:57] speakers I tend to be pretty good,
[2:17:58] pretty balanced. Um, so it's yeah, I
[2:18:01] think it's called 10 peaks. I highly
[2:18:03] recommend if if you have the opportunity
[2:18:04] to connect your school system into it
[2:18:06] because
[2:18:06] >> can you connect with a Calgary school or
[2:18:08] » can you connect with a Calgary school or
[2:18:08] an Edmonton school too
[2:18:12] kids realize that they can't rely on an
[2:18:15] EV vehicle out here? You know what I
[2:18:16] mean? So, we want to really educate
[2:18:18] those urban kids um what we have to go
[2:18:21] through out here that not everybody can
[2:18:23] have EV, you know.
[2:18:25] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[2:18:25] » Yeah. Yeah.
[2:18:25] >> But sorry.
[2:18:28] » But sorry.
[2:18:28] >> Yeah.
[2:18:28] » Yeah.
[2:18:28] >> Boy, obviously you've touched some
[2:18:30] » Boy, obviously you've touched some
[2:18:30] >> Yeah.
[2:18:31] » Yeah.
[2:18:31] >> 10 spots.
[2:18:32] » 10 spots.
[2:18:32] >> It's really positive. No, thank you a
[2:18:33] » It's really positive. No, thank you a
[2:18:33] lot. This is awesome. So,
[2:18:35] >> all right.
[2:18:36] » all right.
[2:18:36] >> Okay. Council,
[2:18:37] » Okay. Council,
[2:18:37] >> just a comment. 30 years ago when we
[2:18:39] » just a comment. 30 years ago when we
[2:18:39] went from a a regular rate of power to a
[2:18:42] commercial rate, we were running a big
[2:18:44] hog setup. If we
[2:18:46] whatever our commercial rate spiked at
[2:18:48] for a month is what we were built for
[2:18:50] the month. And I panicked and said,
[2:18:51] "Holy, when we got it into the system,
[2:18:55] our rates were 60% of what they were
[2:18:57] before." So retail has an opportunity
[2:18:59] here to sell that staging of charging
[2:19:02] and all that kind of stuff. Just on
[2:19:04] their billing part, if they the retail
[2:19:06] part has to step up, not be mandated by
[2:19:09] that.
[2:19:11] >> But the system has to change to allow
[2:19:13] » But the system has to change to allow
[2:19:13] for it to
[2:19:14] >> Can I just one more? Yeah, there are
[2:19:16] » Can I just one more? Yeah, there are
[2:19:16] some changes. The Alberta Utilities
[2:19:18] Commission has actually started down a
[2:19:20] pathway of trying to get more innovation
[2:19:22] from the retailer front by allowing for
[2:19:25] time varying rates that um
[2:19:29] you know the rate varies so dramatically
[2:19:31] at the wholesale level. And if you told
[2:19:34] somebody that, you know, I think I've
[2:19:36] translated this into gasoline prices,
[2:19:38] within a day, the effective price of
[2:19:42] electricity translated to gasoline would
[2:19:44] range from
[2:19:46] about $2 a liter to 5 cents a liter. If
[2:19:50] if your gas station's fluctuating like
[2:19:52] that, you got better believe people are
[2:19:53] going to keep an eye on when the five
[2:19:54] cent per liter prices are. And they're
[2:19:56] quite predictable, too,
[2:19:58] >> uh, and seen in advance. So, and and I
[2:20:01] » uh, and seen in advance. So, and and I
[2:20:01] think maybe that's why we're seeing such
[2:20:02] flexibility on the EV charging front is
[2:20:05] people have a mindset of, you know,
[2:20:07] driving to Costco to save 5 cents for
[2:20:09] gas. Um, if you can save, you know, get
[2:20:12] your your power at half the price at
[2:20:14] other times, it's pretty um sort of part
[2:20:17] of our id to go do that.
[2:20:20] >> Money motivates, right?
[2:20:22] » Money motivates, right?
[2:20:22] >> Yeah, money motivates. And there's
[2:20:23] » Yeah, money motivates. And there's
[2:20:23] something about saving on your fuel for
[2:20:25] your car that really motivates people
[2:20:26] more than anything else. Okay. Um, I'm
[2:20:30] gonna allow one more question. I'm just
[2:20:32] going to tell council that every
[2:20:33] question we ask reduces the amount of
[2:20:35] break time you're going to get.
[2:20:37] >> Stop it. No, I
[2:20:38] » Stop it. No, I
[2:20:38] >> Go ahead, Councelor Cunningham.
[2:20:39] » Go ahead, Councelor Cunningham.
[2:20:39] >> Sorry. I just had to say quickly because
[2:20:41] » Sorry. I just had to say quickly because
[2:20:41] something you said and I'm appreciate
[2:20:42] your email. I'm going to pass it on to
[2:20:44] my husband because when he tells me and
[2:20:45] follows me around the house and tells me
[2:20:47] to shut every light off, I'm going to
[2:20:48] tell him. I heard a presentation today
[2:20:50] that said that doesn't affect the cost
[2:20:51] of the power. So, thank you so much for
[2:20:53] that. I really appreciate it. less so
[2:20:56] than it used to.
[2:20:59] >> Once again, thank you very much, uh, Dr.
[2:21:02] » Once again, thank you very much, uh, Dr.
[2:21:02] Schaefer. We very much appreciate your
[2:21:04] time spent with us today and your
[2:21:06] willingness to spend that time. Thank
[2:21:08] you.
[2:21:09] >> Welcome.
[2:21:11] » Welcome.
[2:21:11] >> Thank you very much.
[2:21:12] » Thank you very much.
[2:21:12] >> Okay. Cheers.
[2:21:17] » Okay, we are going to take a 8 minute
[2:21:21] break. So we are in recess to 10:35.
[2:28:56] Okay, it's 10:35 and I'm going to call
[2:28:59] our meeting back to order.
[2:29:02] And the next item on our agenda
[2:29:06] will be 6.1,
[2:29:09] which is the second quarter variance
[2:29:12] report.
[2:29:20] So, welcome Miss Von Murbach.
[2:29:24] It's been a while since we've seen you,
[2:29:25] but welcome here and we look forward to
[2:29:29] the information that you have for us.
[2:29:34] » Good morning, council.
[2:29:36] >> Morning.
[2:29:37] » Morning.
[2:29:37] >> Today, I'm bringing forward the second
[2:29:39] » Today, I'm bringing forward the second
[2:29:39] quarter variance report. Um, so this
[2:29:42] report speaks to the the county's
[2:29:45] progress in terms of against the budget
[2:29:47] to June 30th, 2025.
[2:29:50] Um, it reports on our operating budget
[2:29:52] performance to date. It reports on the
[2:29:54] status of all approved operating and
[2:29:56] capital projects and it also provides
[2:29:58] some other supplementary information on
[2:29:59] key financial indicators.
[2:30:03] So the first piece that I always go over
[2:30:05] is appendix A, which is our operating
[2:30:07] budget variance report by function. Um
[2:30:10] so again, this relates to everything
[2:30:12] that happened up until June 30th.
[2:30:15] It at this point we're projecting a
[2:30:17] $3,30,000
[2:30:19] um positive variance on our budget, a
[2:30:22] surplus.
[2:30:23] However, most of that is actually made
[2:30:25] up of kind of one-off items that aren't
[2:30:28] anticipated to be a part of the budget.
[2:30:30] So of that 1,382,000
[2:30:33] or 44% of that variance relates to the
[2:30:36] receipt of unbudgeted funds from
[2:30:38] investment revenues. Um this is an
[2:30:40] intentional piece and we've you've seen
[2:30:42] that in the last few years where
[2:30:44] council's opted to not increase
[2:30:46] investment returns within the core
[2:30:47] operating budget due to those returns
[2:30:49] being something that fluctuates
[2:30:51] depending on what's going on in the um
[2:30:53] in the economy. And so that amount is
[2:30:57] actually, you'll see in this report,
[2:30:58] requested to be refunded into reserves.
[2:31:01] And that's kind of the strategy that the
[2:31:03] council's adopted that those funds um
[2:31:06] build reserves rather than um fund the
[2:31:09] operating budget. An additional
[2:31:11] $1,120,000
[2:31:13] or 35.8% of that um surplus relates to
[2:31:17] the receipt of funds for the sale of
[2:31:18] capital equipment. Again, this is a
[2:31:20] similar item in the budget. We um budget
[2:31:23] for $100,000 worth of capital equipment
[2:31:25] plan sales every year, but we know that
[2:31:28] that amount is not likely to be the
[2:31:30] amount we get from selling capital
[2:31:31] equipment and anything over and above
[2:31:33] that goes into the capital equipment
[2:31:35] plan reserve. And again, that's just a
[2:31:37] function of keeping things stable within
[2:31:40] the operating budget rather than
[2:31:41] actually trying to forecast what we
[2:31:43] might sell in any given year from
[2:31:45] reserves and then having that be a
[2:31:46] fluctuating number within our re
[2:31:48] revenues each year. So when you take
[2:31:51] those two kind of um isolated items off
[2:31:54] that are not really a part of the core
[2:31:55] operating budget variance, our remaining
[2:31:58] variance is $627,621.
[2:32:02] Um which represents a 1.9% overall
[2:32:04] variance from the budget. Again, this is
[2:32:06] forecasted to year end. So that number
[2:32:08] can fluctuate when we get closer to the
[2:32:09] end of the year. Um that's a fairly
[2:32:12] tight amount. 1.9% is not super
[2:32:16] comfortable, right? administration
[2:32:18] really kind of feels that that four to
[2:32:20] 6% is sort of a comfortable range where
[2:32:22] when you're fluctuating from the budget,
[2:32:24] you know that there's some flexibility
[2:32:25] within operations to handle things. Um,
[2:32:28] when you start getting into those
[2:32:30] smaller percentages, you're just that
[2:32:32] much more at risk of going over budget
[2:32:34] and things, having to come back to
[2:32:35] council to readress where that operating
[2:32:37] budget sits and what that looks like.
[2:32:39] Um, and when that happens, that can also
[2:32:42] affect how operations can happen because
[2:32:44] we're we end up sitting at a place where
[2:32:46] we can't do something that we might need
[2:32:48] to do operationally because we don't
[2:32:50] have the available budget.
[2:32:53] So, with that, that's kind of your
[2:32:55] overall summary of where that surplus
[2:32:57] comes from. Um, when you look at
[2:32:59] revenues, there's a $2.5 million favor
[2:33:01] favorable variance forecasted to year
[2:33:03] end. Again, most of that is those
[2:33:05] investment returns and the capital
[2:33:06] equipment plan sales. But on a little
[2:33:09] more detail, um, license licenses and
[2:33:11] permits has a $19,000 unfavorable
[2:33:14] variance. So this relates to planning
[2:33:16] and development permits, which are just
[2:33:17] coming in lower than they were last year
[2:33:19] and what we might have expected to see
[2:33:20] this year. Operating grants have a
[2:33:23] $7,500 unfavorable variance. Um, this
[2:33:26] relates to a decrease in the ASB grant
[2:33:29] support from the province. Other revenue
[2:33:32] has a $4,500 favorable variance which
[2:33:35] relates to water department service
[2:33:36] connections and the convenience fee of
[2:33:38] paid to on paid to online payments. Um
[2:33:41] those water department service
[2:33:42] connections are something that we
[2:33:43] typically don't budget for in that
[2:33:45] category again because it's something
[2:33:46] that we can't really anticipate how many
[2:33:48] we have. Um but it's also sorry actually
[2:33:51] that comes later I lied. Ignore me on
[2:33:53] that part. um those are a little bit
[2:33:55] different than the stuff that comes into
[2:33:58] um special taxes and frontage.
[2:34:02] Sale of goods and services has a $1,300
[2:34:04] unfavorable variance which has a couple
[2:34:07] favorable variances and unfavorable
[2:34:09] variances included. There's $13,000
[2:34:11] favorable for various revenues including
[2:34:14] call revenue, safety codes, dust
[2:34:16] control, scrap metal sales, oil field
[2:34:18] permitting, waste charges, map sales,
[2:34:21] bylaw enforcement, and paid parking.
[2:34:24] Um, there's $9,000 favorable variance
[2:34:26] related to planning department fees. And
[2:34:28] then there's a 758 $7,600 favorable
[2:34:31] variance related to water charges. Then
[2:34:34] there's a $31,000 unfavorable variance
[2:34:36] in bulk water sales.
[2:34:39] Sales to other governments has a $48,000
[2:34:42] unfavorable variance. Um, this includes
[2:34:45] $18,000 favorable related to the un an
[2:34:47] unbudgeted transfer site agreement. a
[2:34:50] $10,000 favorable variance related to
[2:34:52] the Aqua 7 contract, a $75,000
[2:34:55] unfavorable variance. This relates to
[2:34:57] the Carbon Management Service Services
[2:34:59] contract, which is not proceeding.
[2:35:01] There's also a corresponding um
[2:35:03] favorable variance in salaries and wages
[2:35:06] related to that happening. And then
[2:35:08] there's a $1,200 unfavorable variance
[2:35:10] related to various revenues, including
[2:35:12] dispatch services and peace officer
[2:35:14] contracts.
[2:35:16] Rental income has a $6,000 favorable
[2:35:18] variance related to building rentals.
[2:35:21] Penalties and fines has a $74,000
[2:35:24] favorable variance relating to penalties
[2:35:26] on property taxes. There's higher than
[2:35:28] we anticipated a rear's balance is this
[2:35:30] year that resulted in that.
[2:35:33] Property taxes has a $12,000 unfavorable
[2:35:35] variance. This just relates to
[2:35:37] assessment adjustments that have
[2:35:38] happened after the tax rate bylaw was
[2:35:40] adopted.
[2:35:42] Special taxes and frontage has a $13,500
[2:35:46] favorable variance. This is where that
[2:35:48] $25,000 favorable variance related to
[2:35:50] riser connections. Um, they aren't
[2:35:53] included in our core operating budget
[2:35:54] because they're something we don't
[2:35:55] really know how much to anticipate every
[2:35:57] year. And council might recall in Q4, we
[2:36:00] generally take anything that's above um
[2:36:03] budget in those amounts and put them
[2:36:04] back into the water reserve at the end
[2:36:06] of the year.
[2:36:08] And then there's an $11,000 unfavorable
[2:36:10] variance related to the Troshu special
[2:36:12] levy. Um, and this is just it was
[2:36:14] budgeted last for the budget cycle. It
[2:36:16] was budgeted as la last year's levy
[2:36:18] amount and then the amount that we
[2:36:19] actually had to levy this year is lower
[2:36:21] than we expected. Um, partly because we
[2:36:23] overlevied last year. So, our actual
[2:36:25] amount we actually got to reduce this
[2:36:27] year.
[2:36:28] Then this is where we get to these two
[2:36:30] big favorable variances. Return on
[2:36:32] investments is that $1,382,000
[2:36:35] favorable variance. again and that reli
[2:36:38] relates to the preliminary reserve
[2:36:40] strategy that's been presented to
[2:36:41] council. Um, and motion number one
[2:36:44] within this report recommends the
[2:36:46] contribution of $680,7757.
[2:36:50] Now, I'll note that number is different
[2:36:51] than our year-end forecast. The amount
[2:36:53] we're actually wanting to contribute to
[2:36:55] reserves is the amount that was over and
[2:36:57] above expected budget as of June 30th.
[2:37:00] So, council will see when we go through
[2:37:01] a fourth quarter report. Anything over
[2:37:03] and above that we remain remains after
[2:37:06] that point, we'll put that into reserves
[2:37:08] as well. And then capital equipment plan
[2:37:11] sales has that $1,120,000
[2:37:13] favorable variance. And again, motion
[2:37:15] number two is recommending that that
[2:37:17] amount be contributed to the reserves to
[2:37:20] the capital equipment plan reserve.
[2:37:23] Then in terms of expense summary,
[2:37:25] there's a $617,916
[2:37:28] favorable variance forecasted to the end
[2:37:30] of the year. Included in that contract
[2:37:33] goods and services has $134,000
[2:37:36] favorable variance which includes
[2:37:38] $36,000 favorable relating to training
[2:37:40] conferences and memberships. $25,000
[2:37:43] favorable related to various items
[2:37:45] across departments. This includes IT
[2:37:48] contracts, public land mowing, equipment
[2:37:49] rentals, bylaw enforcement, inspection
[2:37:51] services, contracted gowns maintenance,
[2:37:54] fire reimbursements, freight and
[2:37:56] postage, and waste collection. When I
[2:37:58] lump a bunch of those into one line item
[2:38:00] on here, it's because each individual
[2:38:02] one doesn't have a significant variance
[2:38:04] to really note and it's just a little
[2:38:06] bit more simplified rather than end up
[2:38:08] with 50 line items explaining contract
[2:38:10] goods and services. We kind of lump
[2:38:12] those ones that really aggregately they
[2:38:14] don't none of them independently have a
[2:38:16] large variance.
[2:38:18] Then there's $23,000 favorable related
[2:38:20] to advertising and PR. $18,000 favorable
[2:38:23] in building repair and maintenance
[2:38:24] initiatives. $11,000 favorable for
[2:38:27] contracted vehicle maintenance. $11,000
[2:38:30] favorable related to professional fees,
[2:38:33] $10,000 favorable related to Landare
[2:38:35] programming, 5,000 favorable for council
[2:38:38] training and development, 5,000
[2:38:39] favorable for major maintenance
[2:38:41] initiatives, and $10,000 unfavorable
[2:38:43] related to insurance.
[2:38:46] Then we look at materials, goods,
[2:38:48] supplies, and utilities, which has a
[2:38:49] forecasted $187,000 favorable variance.
[2:38:53] includes $50,000 favorable related to
[2:38:55] line painting, which is not proceeding
[2:38:57] in 2025,
[2:38:59] $39,000 favorable for weed control
[2:39:01] chemicals, $36,000 favorable for general
[2:39:04] goods, small tools, and supplies across
[2:39:06] departments, $22,000 favorable in
[2:39:09] utilities, $17,000 favorable in
[2:39:11] miscellaneous items, including shop
[2:39:13] supplies, grater blades, culverts, and
[2:39:15] dust control chemicals.
[2:39:17] $14,000 favorable for fuel and $9,000
[2:39:21] favorable related to utility department
[2:39:23] supplies.
[2:39:24] When we look at salaries and wages,
[2:39:26] there's a $227,000 favorable variance.
[2:39:29] This includes $145,000 favorable related
[2:39:32] to that management services contract not
[2:39:34] proceeding. Again, that's where we were
[2:39:37] anticipating collecting half of that
[2:39:38] amount through revenue with that
[2:39:40] contract agreement and then it's not
[2:39:42] proceeding. So, you see those two
[2:39:43] variances. there's an $82,000 favorable
[2:39:46] variance related to core salaries, group
[2:39:48] benefits, seasonal wages, overtime, and
[2:39:50] employee turnover.
[2:39:52] Then under provision for allowances,
[2:39:54] we're looking at a $37,000 favor dollar
[2:39:56] favorable variance. Um, and this is just
[2:39:58] due to the anticipated tax write offs
[2:40:00] for uncollectible accounts that we
[2:40:02] anticipate bringing forward to council
[2:40:04] at a future meeting.
[2:40:07] Purchases from other governments has a
[2:40:08] $9,600 unfavorable variance and this
[2:40:11] relates to the Drumheller Waste
[2:40:12] Commission payment increase.
[2:40:15] Transfer to other governments has a
[2:40:16] $36,000 favorable var variance which
[2:40:19] includes variances for fire agreements
[2:40:21] and the TROU special levy.
[2:40:24] and then transfers to individuals and
[2:40:25] organizations has a $4,500 favorable
[2:40:27] variances relate to relates relating to
[2:40:30] grant programming anticipated to not be
[2:40:32] fully utilized.
[2:40:36] Um so that finishes appendix A. Um then
[2:40:40] appendix B has basically the same.
[2:40:45] >> Councilor Phobes, you have a question.
[2:40:46] » Councilor Phobes, you have a question.
[2:40:46] >> Uh just back up underneath where it said
[2:40:48] » Uh just back up underneath where it said
[2:40:48] you had an unfavorable for insurance. Is
[2:40:50] that across the whole organization like
[2:40:53] insurance costs increased
[2:40:54] >> through the chair? That is correct.
[2:40:55] » through the chair? That is correct.
[2:40:55] That's across the organization.
[2:40:57] >> Thank you.
[2:41:02] » Any other questions at this time? I'm
[2:41:05] not seeing any. So if you
[2:41:07] >> go ahead, please.
[2:41:08] » go ahead, please.
[2:41:08] >> Absolutely. So appendix B has basically
[2:41:11] » Absolutely. So appendix B has basically
[2:41:11] it's all about the operating budget as
[2:41:12] well. It's just broken out by department
[2:41:14] rather than by functional category. So,
[2:41:17] I've also summarized the key driving
[2:41:18] factors of by each department. Um, under
[2:41:21] council, there's no revenues associated
[2:41:23] with council, but there's a $16,000
[2:41:26] favorable variance related to contracted
[2:41:28] services and salaries.
[2:41:30] There's corporate re items. So, that all
[2:41:32] includes like property taxes and all the
[2:41:34] things that are sort of not really
[2:41:35] attributed to one specific department.
[2:41:38] Has that $2,562,000
[2:41:41] favorable variance. So, this relates to
[2:41:43] that return on investments in capital
[2:41:44] equipment plan sales. again, most of
[2:41:47] both of which have motions to contribute
[2:41:48] those funds into reserves. Um,
[2:41:50] associated with this report, there's a
[2:41:53] $52,000 favorable variance that
[2:41:55] primarily relates to transfers to other
[2:41:57] governments and as as well as provision
[2:41:59] for allowances which are related to
[2:42:01] uncollectible property taxes. The Office
[2:42:04] of the CEO has that $75,000 unfavorable
[2:42:07] revenue variance. Again, that's that
[2:42:08] carbon management services pro not
[2:42:11] proceeding. Um, conversely, there's that
[2:42:13] fa there's a favorable variance um of
[2:42:16] 135,000 in the office of the CEO
[2:42:18] department um primarily relating to the
[2:42:20] management services contract and it's
[2:42:22] offset by a small unfavorable variance
[2:42:24] in core core salaries for the
[2:42:26] department.
[2:42:28] Corporate services again has no revenues
[2:42:31] directly associated with that department
[2:42:33] and 98 there's $98,000 of favorable
[2:42:36] variance in expenditures and that
[2:42:38] relates to contracted services,
[2:42:40] materials and and salaries and benefits.
[2:42:43] Transportation, all revenues are on
[2:42:45] budget as or anticipated to be on budget
[2:42:48] with no significant variances um
[2:42:50] anticipated. And then expenditures have
[2:42:52] a $2,600 favorable variance which
[2:42:55] relates to road primarily relating to
[2:42:57] roadline painting which is actually
[2:42:58] offset by some unfavorable salaries,
[2:43:00] insurance, and utility variances.
[2:43:03] Environmental services has a $35,000
[2:43:06] favorable revenue variance related to
[2:43:08] the water connection fees and then a
[2:43:10] $68,000 favorable variance um related to
[2:43:13] contracted services, salaries,
[2:43:15] materials, and supplies and offset by an
[2:43:17] unfavorable variance in the Drum Hiller
[2:43:19] Waste Commission payment. Facilities
[2:43:22] again, no associated revenues. There's a
[2:43:24] $28,000 favorable expenditure variance
[2:43:27] related to contracted services,
[2:43:29] salaries, and materials.
[2:43:31] Enforcement has a $7,000 unfavorable
[2:43:33] variance relating to fines and callout
[2:43:35] services. A $16,000 favorable variance
[2:43:38] related to contracted services and
[2:43:40] salaries. And then fire has a $16,000
[2:43:43] favorable variance related to rental
[2:43:45] revenue, safety codes, and call revenue,
[2:43:47] and an $11,000 favorable revenue or
[2:43:49] expenditure variance relating to the
[2:43:51] provincial policing payment.
[2:43:54] disaster has a $2,800 favorable revenue
[2:43:57] variance related to reimbursements for
[2:43:58] training facilitated by the county and a
[2:44:01] very small favorable expenditure
[2:44:03] variance related to salaries.
[2:44:06] Planning has an unfavorable revenue
[2:44:07] variance of $10,000 related to licenses
[2:44:10] and permits and expenses have a $14,000
[2:44:14] favorable variance related to contracted
[2:44:15] services and salaries.
[2:44:18] Uh, agricultural services has an $10,000
[2:44:21] unfavorable variance related to a
[2:44:23] reduction in provincial operating grants
[2:44:24] and extension programming revenues and
[2:44:27] an $89,000 favorable expenditure
[2:44:29] variance primarily relating to weed
[2:44:31] control chemicals as well as landare
[2:44:33] programming, salaries, and fuel. Parks
[2:44:36] has a $2,700 unfavorable variance
[2:44:38] related to the sale of services and a
[2:44:40] $54,000 unfavorable variance related to
[2:44:43] contracted services, materials, and
[2:44:44] salaries.
[2:44:46] Cemeteries has a $1,000 favorable
[2:44:48] variance related to plot sales.
[2:44:53] Parks has a favorable var Yeah, sorry, I
[2:44:55] said unfavorable. I think that was
[2:44:57] favorable. Sorry, I had to double check
[2:44:59] that.
[2:45:00] That should actually say favorable
[2:45:02] variance under parks expenditures.
[2:45:05] I was trying to figure out how the heck
[2:45:06] they were over on that. I couldn't
[2:45:08] figure out in my head. Sorry about that.
[2:45:10] Um, and then a $1,000 favorable variance
[2:45:13] related to plot sales in cemeteries and
[2:45:15] an $11,000 favorable variance for
[2:45:16] seasonal wages, contracted services, and
[2:45:18] community grants.
[2:45:21] Economic development, again, no
[2:45:22] associated revenues with that
[2:45:23] department. And there's an $18,000
[2:45:25] favorable variance related to
[2:45:27] advertising, professional fees, and
[2:45:28] salaries.
[2:45:30] So, that summarizes everything related
[2:45:32] to the operating budget.
[2:45:35] >> Um, councelor Cunningham, you have a
[2:45:37] » Um, councelor Cunningham, you have a
[2:45:37] question. So, um, question maybe for my,
[2:45:40] um, fellow council members that are on
[2:45:42] egg services. I'm just wondering what
[2:45:44] was the province's reasoning for
[2:45:46] reducing that provincial operating grant
[2:45:49] or was there a reason given?
[2:45:50] >> Was there ever a reason?
[2:45:51] » Was there ever a reason?
[2:45:51] >> Uh, well, um, I guess we have a
[2:45:54] » Uh, well, um, I guess we have a
[2:45:54] delegation this afternoon. Maybe we
[2:45:55] could ask, but just just curious if
[2:45:57] there was
[2:45:58] >> Excellent point.
[2:46:00] » Excellent point.
[2:46:00] >> That program keeps getting down and down
[2:46:02] » That program keeps getting down and down
[2:46:02] every year. like it's they're just
[2:46:05] downloading costs to the mut.
[2:46:08] >> Mr. Ganon,
[2:46:11] » Mr. Ganon,
[2:46:11] >> thank you through the chair. I I believe
[2:46:13] » thank you through the chair. I I believe
[2:46:13] some of the shift is also within the
[2:46:15] grants requirements and programming. Uh
[2:46:17] so some of the things that used to be
[2:46:19] covered uh for programming has actually
[2:46:22] shifted that responsibility. So there's
[2:46:25] been some changes within the actual
[2:46:27] programming of what the grant can
[2:46:28] actually cover versus uh what it
[2:46:31] actually does now. So that's where some
[2:46:33] of the shift in that funding uh actually
[2:46:35] came from as well.
[2:46:40] » And I had a question on the policing. Um
[2:46:43] so does that mean that we paid less for
[2:46:45] policing than we anticipated?
[2:46:48] >> Uh my understanding is we are
[2:46:49] » Uh my understanding is we are
[2:46:49] anticipated to pay marginally less. We
[2:46:52] haven't actually seen so they bill from
[2:46:53] March till like April 1st to March 31st.
[2:46:56] My understanding is it's slightly down.
[2:47:00] >> So we're anticipating that they're
[2:47:01] » So we're anticipating that they're
[2:47:01] continuing that pattern.
[2:47:03] >> Yes. I don't know that it'll continue to
[2:47:05] » Yes. I don't know that it'll continue to
[2:47:05] go down. It doesn't seem that we've seen
[2:47:08] an increase from what we had originally
[2:47:11] told us that that we'd top out on.
[2:47:13] >> So, from what we budgeted anticipating
[2:47:16] » So, from what we budgeted anticipating
[2:47:16] the province was going to ask for, we're
[2:47:19] seeing a slight reduction from what we
[2:47:21] thought we might see.
[2:47:22] >> That is correct.
[2:47:23] » That is correct.
[2:47:23] >> Okay. Thank you.
[2:47:33] I don't see any other questions right
[2:47:35] now, so I think you're good to go
[2:47:37] forward.
[2:47:38] >> Okay. Um, then we move on to operating
[2:47:40] » Okay. Um, then we move on to operating
[2:47:40] projects. So, there's 23 operating
[2:47:42] projects included in the 2025 budget.
[2:47:45] This includes projects that were
[2:47:46] approved within the 2025 budget and any
[2:47:48] that were carried forward from 2024. Of
[2:47:51] that 17 have no projected variance based
[2:47:54] on the project progress as of June 30th
[2:47:56] and six are projected to be completed
[2:47:58] under budget.
[2:48:01] And because all those projects are
[2:48:03] funded out of reserves, anything that is
[2:48:05] completed under budget, that is just
[2:48:06] money that will stay in reserves rather
[2:48:08] than being pulled out. So we actually
[2:48:10] don't pull that money officially out. We
[2:48:12] allocated that it's coming out, but
[2:48:14] until we actually expenditure, we don't
[2:48:16] pull them directly out of reserves.
[2:48:19] And then for capital projects, we have
[2:48:21] 30 capital projects in 2025. Um, and
[2:48:24] again, 16 have no projected variance um,
[2:48:26] based on the project progress as of June
[2:48:28] 30th, and 14 are projected to be
[2:48:30] completed under budget.
[2:48:33] Um, cash and investment summary, we
[2:48:36] continue to generate reasonably strong
[2:48:38] rates of return on investments, not like
[2:48:40] we saw maybe a year or two ago. Um,
[2:48:42] currently we're looking at a range of
[2:48:44] 3.3% to 6.05%.
[2:48:47] And these returns are going to decrease
[2:48:48] a bit in third quarter due to decreases
[2:48:50] in the prime interest rate and the
[2:48:51] renewal of GIC's at rates lower than we
[2:48:54] achieved from recent years.
[2:48:57] And then the reserve continuity again is
[2:48:59] always included in ter just to show um
[2:49:02] what the available balances of reserves
[2:49:04] and what those transactions are looking
[2:49:05] like. Um the reserves are only ever
[2:49:08] touched if council approves new
[2:49:09] contributions, expenditures or amends
[2:49:11] project budgets um or projects are
[2:49:13] completed under budget then that money
[2:49:15] returns. So when council looks at the
[2:49:18] 2025 available balance is really the
[2:49:20] unallocated balance. Nothing has like no
[2:49:22] commitments have been made out of that
[2:49:24] amount. And then the projected ending
[2:49:26] balance takes into account the motions
[2:49:28] that we're recommending within this
[2:49:29] report and also takes into account
[2:49:32] potential like our projected underbudget
[2:49:35] projects but those won't be realized
[2:49:37] until we actually finalize those
[2:49:38] projects.
[2:49:41] And that is the end of my second quarter
[2:49:43] variance report. Unless there are
[2:49:45] further questions.
[2:49:46] >> All right, questions um related to
[2:49:51] » All right, questions um related to
[2:49:51] second quarter variance.
[2:49:55] Clear as mud.
[2:50:02] Okay, I'm not
[2:50:04] seeing any questions at this point.
[2:50:10] So um we want um motion about the
[2:50:15] contribution
[2:50:17] uh to the reserve and the cap the two
[2:50:21] different reserves the parks and the
[2:50:23] capital equipment plan. Okay.
[2:50:29] » Councelor Penner. So, I'll start off. I
[2:50:32] make the first motion that council
[2:50:33] approves the contribution of $680,757
[2:50:37] to the parks reserve in relation to
[2:50:40] investment returns.
[2:50:43] >> Okay. So, this is the revenue that we've
[2:50:46] » Okay. So, this is the revenue that we've
[2:50:46] generated on the investment side and the
[2:50:49] recommendation is at this point that go
[2:50:50] into the parks reserve. Okay. Just to be
[2:50:53] clear, any questions or discussion
[2:50:57] related to the motion to approve a
[2:50:59] contribution of $680,757
[2:51:03] to the parks reserve in relation to
[2:51:06] investment returns. Any questions,
[2:51:08] comment?
[2:51:11] Not seeing any. So I am going to ask the
[2:51:13] question. All those in favor
[2:51:16] and that is carried unanimously. Thank
[2:51:19] you,
[2:51:21] Councelor Wtock.
[2:51:24] And I would like to move that council
[2:51:26] approve a contribution of 1,120,898
[2:51:32] to the capital equipment plan reserve in
[2:51:35] relation to the sale of capital
[2:51:37] equipment.
[2:51:40] All right.
[2:51:43] So equipment sales are good, eh?
[2:51:50] All right. So, we do have a motion to
[2:51:52] approve a contribution of 1,120,898
[2:51:58] to the capital equipment plan reserve in
[2:52:01] relation to the sale of capital
[2:52:03] equipment. So, revenues generated by
[2:52:06] capital equipment sales going back to
[2:52:08] the capital equipment reserve.
[2:52:10] Any questions, discussion, or comment?
[2:52:14] Okay, I'm not seeing any, so I'm going
[2:52:16] to ask the question. All those in favor?
[2:52:19] And that is also carried unanimously.
[2:52:23] Um,
[2:52:27] and do we need a motion to just approve
[2:52:29] the second quarter variance report as
[2:52:34] presented?
[2:52:37] » Mr. Hogan,
[2:52:37] >> through the chair, I think we usually do
[2:52:39] » through the chair, I think we usually do
[2:52:39] get one. Technically, you don't. You've
[2:52:40] made motions and actioned it, but I
[2:52:42] think historically, we've had one.
[2:52:44] >> Okay. So, then I would look A motion to
[2:52:48] » Okay. So, then I would look A motion to
[2:52:48] uh receive the second quarter variance
[2:52:50] report as presented.
[2:52:53] >> Councelor Christie.
[2:52:53] » Councelor Christie.
[2:52:54] >> So moved.
[2:53:02] » Okay. We have a motion to receive the
[2:53:03] second quarter variance report as
[2:53:05] presented or for information.
[2:53:09] Um any questions, comment, discussion?
[2:53:13] If not, all those in favor and that is
[2:53:17] also carried unanimously.
[2:53:19] And thank you very much, Miss Von
[2:53:21] Murbach. And you can tell everyone in
[2:53:24] the background there who's doing all
[2:53:25] that hard work, thank you on behalf of
[2:53:27] council.
[2:53:29] Thank you.
[2:53:32] Okay, we have a delegation in three
[2:53:34] seconds. Um, the Ballard group.
[2:53:38] So, we're going to take a small uh
[2:53:40] recess to allow them to get set up. Um,
[2:53:44] and please hear me say small recess.
[2:53:49] >> Absolutely.
[2:56:19] All right, it's 11:02 and I am going to
[2:56:24] um call our meeting back to order. Um
[2:56:29] and I guess I'm going to say welcome. Um
[2:56:33] if I get your name wrong, is it Batty?
[2:56:36] >> Yes.
[2:56:37] » Yes.
[2:56:37] >> Okay. And Miss McCaffrey.
[2:56:39] » Okay. And Miss McCaffrey.
[2:56:40] >> Yep.
[2:56:40] » Yep.
[2:56:40] >> Okay. Welcome here. Before I get you to
[2:56:43] » Okay. Welcome here. Before I get you to
[2:56:43] And of course,
[2:56:45] Fallon, welcome. U before I get you to
[2:56:48] start your presentation, I'm just going
[2:56:50] to get um the people in this room here
[2:56:52] to introduce themselves to you and then
[2:56:55] if you would just give us a brief
[2:56:56] introduction and then your presentation,
[2:56:58] that would be greatly appreciated. So,
[2:57:00] I'll start with you, Councelor
[2:57:02] Cunningham, if you would please. And
[2:57:05] >> good morning. Thanks for being here.
[2:57:07] » good morning. Thanks for being here.
[2:57:07] Laura Lee Michelle Cunningham, Division
[2:57:08] 5. And I was lucky enough to meet you
[2:57:10] folks on last Wednesday night at Three
[2:57:13] Hills Discovery Night. So nice to see
[2:57:14] you again.
[2:57:17] >> Good morning. Uh Jerry Witstock,
[2:57:19] » Good morning. Uh Jerry Witstock,
[2:57:19] division three. That's the Acne London
[2:57:20] area.
[2:57:22] >> Good morning, Debbie. I'm in division
[2:57:24] » Good morning, Debbie. I'm in division
[2:57:24] two in the Swallow area.
[2:57:27] >> And I'm Ken King and I represent
[2:57:29] » And I'm Ken King and I represent
[2:57:29] division seven, which is basically the
[2:57:31] northeast portion. So kind of Troshu
[2:57:33] north and east of Troshu to the river
[2:57:35] Buffalo Jump that area.
[2:57:38] >> Good morning. I'm Fay McGee, division
[2:57:40] » Good morning. I'm Fay McGee, division
[2:57:40] one. So that's the southeast corner that
[2:57:43] comes right up to the drum area.
[2:57:46] >> Good morning folks, division 4.
[2:57:49] » Good morning folks, division 4.
[2:57:49] >> Wade Christie, division 6. So I'm in the
[2:57:51] » Wade Christie, division 6. So I'm in the
[2:57:51] northwest corner.
[2:57:53] >> Go ahead, Mr. Hogan.
[2:57:54] » Go ahead, Mr. Hogan.
[2:57:54] >> Morning. Mike Hogan, chief
[2:57:55] » Morning. Mike Hogan, chief
[2:57:55] administrative officer.
[2:57:57] >> Good morning. Carolyn Vanderl,
[2:57:58] » Good morning. Carolyn Vanderl,
[2:57:58] legislative services legislative
[2:58:01] services manager.
[2:58:04] >> Good morning, Kevin Ganon. Nice to see
[2:58:06] » Good morning, Kevin Ganon. Nice to see
[2:58:06] you again. Hey, morning folks. Mike Zer,
[2:58:08] director of infrastructure.
[2:58:10] >> Good morning, Theresa Cochran, director
[2:58:11] » Good morning, Theresa Cochran, director
[2:58:11] of corporate services.
[2:58:14] >> All right, so I'll turn it over to the
[2:58:16] » All right, so I'll turn it over to the
[2:58:16] three of you. Um, and uh, welcome here
[2:58:20] and uh, anytime you're ready.
[2:58:22] >> Perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you
[2:58:24] » Perfect. Thank you so much. Thank you
[2:58:24] all for uh, for having us and
[2:58:25] introducing yourselves. Good morning. My
[2:58:28] name is Assad Bati. I am a senior
[2:58:30] associate with the ballot group. And on
[2:58:32] this project that we're going to be
[2:58:33] presenting about, I am the research
[2:58:35] lead. So, I'm taking care of things like
[2:58:37] methodology, uh, execution of the
[2:58:40] project and ultimately the strategy that
[2:58:42] we're going to be drafting at the end of
[2:58:43] things. I'll let my colleague here, Bri,
[2:58:45] introduce herself as well.
[2:58:50] » Um, yep. So, my name is Bri. Um, I'm a
[2:58:52] research analyst with uh with Ballad.
[2:58:54] Um, I have a background in recreation,
[2:58:56] sport, and tourism. Um, so that will be
[2:58:58] my main role with this project. Um, and
[2:59:02] yeah, I've been with Ballad for about a
[2:59:03] year now. And, um, yeah, very excited to
[2:59:06] be working on this project and meeting
[2:59:07] all of you today.
[2:59:12] Sorry.
[2:59:13] >> And I'm Fallon Sherlock. I am just here
[2:59:15] » And I'm Fallon Sherlock. I am just here
[2:59:15] as support uh, as uh, they provide the
[2:59:18] presentation and the information.
[2:59:21] >> Perfect. So yeah, without further ado, I
[2:59:23] » Perfect. So yeah, without further ado, I
[2:59:23] think we can get started. So yeah, we're
[2:59:25] going to be talking today about the
[2:59:26] parks and recreation needs assessment
[2:59:28] that we are working on. Uh this
[2:59:30] presentation is going to be a project
[2:59:32] brief. So it's to provide information on
[2:59:34] exactly what's happening here, uh who we
[2:59:36] are exactly what's our methodology, what
[2:59:38] has been done so far, some timelines and
[2:59:40] next steps. So we'll get started. Um in
[2:59:45] the agenda exactly like I had mentioned
[2:59:48] you can see that we're going to start
[2:59:49] with a company background work on
[2:59:51] talking about the project team and an
[2:59:53] overview of the project as well. We're
[2:59:55] then going to be talking about
[2:59:56] methodology specifically engagement
[2:59:59] because there is a uh significant
[3:00:01] engagement uh goal that we have in this
[3:00:03] project that I'll talk a little bit more
[3:00:04] about later. Uh the project schedule and
[3:00:07] then next steps about what we're going
[3:00:08] to be doing.
[3:00:11] So, first of all, I'll talk a little bit
[3:00:13] more about Ballot Group, the company
[3:00:14] that both me and Bri are from. So, we're
[3:00:17] a Alberta based consulting firm. Uh, we
[3:00:20] operate out of six offices across the
[3:00:22] province and we have over 60 staff. Um,
[3:00:25] Ballot Group is a um a company that's,
[3:00:29] you know, since 2012, we worked on both
[3:00:31] things to do with employment services as
[3:00:34] well as consulting. And consulting is
[3:00:36] the team that me and Bri are a part of.
[3:00:39] In consulting, we've worked on over 400
[3:00:41] projects uh since 2012 as mentioned in
[3:00:44] different areas including community
[3:00:46] development, tourism, recreation,
[3:00:50] housing, economic development, strategic
[3:00:52] planning, and other um areas as well.
[3:00:56] We're really well verssed especially in
[3:00:57] strategy development and needs analysis
[3:01:00] which are both relevant um areas for
[3:01:04] this project that we're working on. Now,
[3:01:06] our approach generally across all these
[3:01:09] different fields is a listen first and
[3:01:11] then react philosophy. We're very much
[3:01:14] about making sure that we're not doing
[3:01:16] cookie cutter solutions, for example, or
[3:01:18] using too many templates or things like
[3:01:20] that. We really want to ensure that we
[3:01:23] are understanding, acknowledging, and
[3:01:24] acting on the fact that each community
[3:01:26] and each project we work on is unique
[3:01:28] and different.
[3:01:30] uh there's um going to be specific needs
[3:01:33] that we have to take into account for
[3:01:35] every single project that we work on and
[3:01:37] we take that to heart and ensure that
[3:01:40] all of our project methodologies are
[3:01:42] tailored specifically for the client
[3:01:44] that we're working with at that time.
[3:01:47] Our focus is to be engagementdriven. So
[3:01:49] we want to ensure that engagement is a
[3:01:52] key focus in all of our methodology and
[3:01:54] we want to be evidence-based. We want to
[3:01:56] ultimately conclude um make conclusions
[3:02:00] and draft strategies and recommendations
[3:02:02] that are based in the reality of what we
[3:02:04] have found throughout the project.
[3:02:07] And then in terms of our experience, we
[3:02:09] have worked across the province and also
[3:02:10] in Saskatchewan and in BC and other
[3:02:12] areas as well with municipalities,
[3:02:15] indigenous governments, community
[3:02:17] organizations, nonprofits, so on and so
[3:02:20] forth. uh we have worked with a lot of
[3:02:21] different groups basically in a lot of
[3:02:23] different places especially in rural
[3:02:25] areas of the province which we'll talk a
[3:02:27] little bit more about when we go into
[3:02:29] our team.
[3:02:32] So um I won't go and give the whole
[3:02:34] spiel of uh basically everything but as
[3:02:37] for myself um I'm a senior associate
[3:02:39] here at ballad my experience is that I
[3:02:41] was previously the director of housing
[3:02:43] at the rural development network for the
[3:02:44] sustainable housing initiative where I
[3:02:47] work primarily in affordable housing
[3:02:48] developments. Um because of this
[3:02:50] experience I have a lot of um uh
[3:02:53] knowledge and uh knowithal about the
[3:02:56] specific let's say challenges and
[3:02:58] circumstances that a lot of rural
[3:02:59] communities face across the province.
[3:03:01] And so I'm able to making sure that that
[3:03:03] context is taken into account when
[3:03:05] working on different projects that um we
[3:03:08] work on here at Ballad. Erin, who wasn't
[3:03:11] able to make it today is our engagement
[3:03:13] lead. Um so he's an IAP2 trained
[3:03:16] engagement facilitator and what that
[3:03:18] means is that he's able to ensure that
[3:03:19] when we are conducting engagement doing
[3:03:22] things like surveys, focus groups, so on
[3:03:24] and so forth. We'll learn more about
[3:03:25] that later on that we are completing
[3:03:28] them with a level of expertise that's
[3:03:31] required for wholesome engagement but
[3:03:33] also at the same time in a way that's
[3:03:35] going to ensure that the outcomes we are
[3:03:37] desiring are being achieved.
[3:03:40] He uh likewise has a lot of experience
[3:03:42] working with uh different remote uh
[3:03:44] rural and remote communities all across
[3:03:46] not only the province but also into the
[3:03:48] territories Manitoba and Saskatchewan as
[3:03:51] well.
[3:03:53] Holly Johnson also who wasn't able to
[3:03:54] make it today as our project manager. Uh
[3:03:57] so she's another senior associate and
[3:03:59] she takes care of ensuring that all the
[3:04:01] administrative tasks that are assigned
[3:04:03] to the project related to the project
[3:04:04] are being taken care of. That includes
[3:04:06] coordination with the county uh staff,
[3:04:09] includes things like setting up
[3:04:10] meetings, uh preparing everything that
[3:04:13] has to do with billing, um meeting
[3:04:16] notes, so on and so forth. Holly makes
[3:04:18] sure that that is all taken care of so
[3:04:20] we can focus on the actual execution of
[3:04:22] the project. And then Bri here um is our
[3:04:25] research analyst. She is the primary
[3:04:27] project writer for this. She has
[3:04:29] experience in working on similar
[3:04:31] projects regarding parks and recreation
[3:04:33] as well as in engagement. So she's very
[3:04:35] well-versed in the work that we're doing
[3:04:38] on here and um is looking to bring that
[3:04:41] experience and that expertise to this
[3:04:42] project.
[3:04:46] » So the project overview, what exactly
[3:04:48] are we trying to achieve with this
[3:04:50] project and what is our focus area? What
[3:04:52] is our outcome? So the purpose of this
[3:04:54] project is to provide Nih Hill County
[3:04:56] with a clear understanding of the
[3:04:58] current state of your recreation and
[3:05:00] park systems including facilities,
[3:05:03] programs, spaces as well as parks to
[3:05:07] identify strategic priorities for the
[3:05:09] next 10 years. Uh we want to in summary
[3:05:13] look at all of the related assets that
[3:05:15] currently exist, understand where we
[3:05:18] want to be in the future, and then
[3:05:19] create a plan for working towards that
[3:05:21] future.
[3:05:23] The focus areas are to understand what
[3:05:25] facilities and programs currently exist,
[3:05:28] evaluate their condition, their usage,
[3:05:32] identify where service gaps or
[3:05:33] opportunities exist for improvement,
[3:05:35] and then consider the role of tourism,
[3:05:38] changing population trends, and of
[3:05:40] course alignment with the council's
[3:05:41] strategic plans.
[3:05:44] Our outcome then is to deliver a needs
[3:05:47] assessment that blends community input,
[3:05:49] facility data, and best practices that
[3:05:52] will then give prioritized
[3:05:53] recommendations for how exactly NIH
[3:05:56] Hills County's recreation system can be
[3:05:58] built to be sustainable, inclusive, and
[3:06:01] ready for the future, achieving all the
[3:06:02] goals that not only council has, but
[3:06:05] also that would benefit the community in
[3:06:08] the long run.
[3:06:12] In terms of our scope and methodology to
[3:06:14] achieve this outcome and to achieve this
[3:06:16] project, uh we're going to be working on
[3:06:19] a um a scope that includes all
[3:06:21] recreation facilities, spaces, parks,
[3:06:24] and uh programs that are used by Neil
[3:06:26] County residents. This includes as
[3:06:28] mentioned county-owned parks,
[3:06:29] campgrounds and trails facilities in
[3:06:32] internal municipalities, Acme, Lynden,
[3:06:34] Carbon, Three Hills, Troshue for
[3:06:36] example, partner operated assets as well
[3:06:39] as key private and tourism facilities
[3:06:41] that serve the public. This includes for
[3:06:43] example Horseshoe Canyon.
[3:06:46] We will also then want to assess these
[3:06:48] in certain areas and those areas are to
[3:06:52] talk about the facility condition, life
[3:06:54] cycle stage and amenities, the
[3:06:57] accessibility and geographic coverage of
[3:07:00] these assets that exist, their usage
[3:07:02] patterns, their operational models,
[3:07:04] things like service gaps and
[3:07:06] opportunities for collaboration. And
[3:07:08] then the impact that these assets have
[3:07:10] on tourism and regional partnership
[3:07:12] potential.
[3:07:16] Ultimately this gets into our
[3:07:18] methodology. So this is where we're
[3:07:20] looking at how do we take what we have
[3:07:22] for our scope. How do we take how do we
[3:07:24] um how we want to assess things and then
[3:07:27] actually make make a methodology that
[3:07:29] will result in the outcome that we want.
[3:07:31] that is through data collection that
[3:07:34] will be informed by community engagement
[3:07:36] to ultimately lead to analysis and
[3:07:38] recommendations. So our methodology as
[3:07:40] mentioned before is a mixed method that
[3:07:43] takes into account both things like best
[3:07:45] practices and data analysis that we can
[3:07:46] collect from secondary sources as well
[3:07:49] as generating primary data from things
[3:07:51] like engagement.
[3:07:53] So um the things that we'll be looking
[3:07:56] at as part of our methodology are
[3:07:58] facility inventory and GIS mapping.
[3:08:00] We'll talk a little bit more about this
[3:08:01] later about what's been achieved right
[3:08:03] now, but it's on the ground asset
[3:08:05] mapping to actually visit all the assets
[3:08:07] that we're looking at and talking about,
[3:08:09] see things like their condition, um,
[3:08:11] assess them, so on and so forth. We're
[3:08:13] then going to be doing demographic and
[3:08:15] economic analysis. This is important to
[3:08:17] understand future trends and things that
[3:08:18] might be happening that could impact the
[3:08:20] county in the future. We want to ensure
[3:08:22] that we're not just making a plan for
[3:08:24] now, but a plan that will still be
[3:08:25] effective uh, in a decade's time.
[3:08:29] Benchmarking is something that we're uh
[3:08:31] going to be including as part of this
[3:08:32] project. This is comparisons with other
[3:08:34] similar communities so that we can see
[3:08:37] things like what's working, what's not
[3:08:39] working, and what should Nihill County
[3:08:40] consider for their own parks and
[3:08:42] recreation needs. We're then going to be
[3:08:45] doing community engagement. This will be
[3:08:47] a mix of public surveys, workshops, and
[3:08:50] openhouse, so on and so forth. We'll
[3:08:52] talk a little bit more about um what
[3:08:54] we're doing exactly for engagement and
[3:08:55] what we've already done. And um as
[3:08:58] mentioned, that's going to be a big part
[3:08:59] of this project because we have specific
[3:09:02] um um goals to engage as much as
[3:09:06] possible with as many county residents
[3:09:08] as possible. So this plan is really
[3:09:10] informed by what you know people living
[3:09:13] in the county think.
[3:09:15] And then best practice research. We're
[3:09:17] going to be identifying innovative
[3:09:18] cost-effective models that fit NIH's
[3:09:21] rural context. So, not just looking at
[3:09:23] the best practices and what should be
[3:09:25] done when it comes to parks and
[3:09:26] recreation, but how does that fit N Knee
[3:09:27] Hills context and how does that work in
[3:09:30] a way that could be beneficial for the
[3:09:31] county.
[3:09:35] So, we can talk about what we've done so
[3:09:37] far. So, um this is a little bit updated
[3:09:40] now because the presentation was sent in
[3:09:41] August and we've been working on it uh
[3:09:43] hard still since then. So, I'll update
[3:09:46] you also with things that have been done
[3:09:49] since this presentation has been made.
[3:09:51] So, we've done the project kickoff
[3:09:52] already. We've started the project. We
[3:09:54] have met with the um county uh project
[3:09:57] team. We've assigned a PSC. We call them
[3:10:00] a project steering committee on the
[3:10:02] county side that helps ensure that the
[3:10:03] county's needs and requirements are
[3:10:05] being met. Uh and then we've confirmed
[3:10:07] things like scope, timelines, and
[3:10:09] deliverables. We've also done engagement
[3:10:12] planning. So, we finalize a detailed
[3:10:14] engagement plan that meets participation
[3:10:16] targets, includes surveys, workshops, so
[3:10:19] on and so forth. as discussed. And then
[3:10:21] we've also done on the ground asset
[3:10:23] surveying. So we did a 3-day asset
[3:10:26] survey that covered Wimborn, Thorington,
[3:10:28] areas like Horseshoe Cannon, so on and
[3:10:30] so forth. You can see the full list on
[3:10:32] the slide deck, of course. And then we
[3:10:34] documented things like conditions,
[3:10:35] amenities, usage rates, uh signage, so
[3:10:38] on and so forth. That will help inform
[3:10:40] our analysis.
[3:10:42] uh Troshu and Three Hills as mentioned
[3:10:44] there were still upcoming at that time
[3:10:46] but I'm happy to say that as of last
[3:10:47] week we have also done a full asset
[3:10:50] mapping of things in Troshu and Three
[3:10:51] Hills. So we are actually complete in
[3:10:53] our acid mapping for this project.
[3:10:58] So this is just a map showing where we
[3:11:00] have been. Um our route was uh a little
[3:11:03] bit of a horseshoe in a sense uh
[3:11:05] ironically. So we started in Wimbornne
[3:11:06] and ended basically in Huxley over those
[3:11:08] three days. And so we visited a lot of
[3:11:11] the areas that exist in the county, saw
[3:11:12] a lot of the beautiful sites, the parks,
[3:11:15] the uh recreation facilities that exist,
[3:11:17] which gives us a really good in-person
[3:11:19] context of what is working, what maybe
[3:11:22] requires a little bit of adjustment, so
[3:11:24] on and so forth.
[3:11:27] And as mentioned, this map at the time
[3:11:29] was made with the three-day visit just,
[3:11:32] but we have also done three hills in
[3:11:34] Troshu since that time.
[3:11:38] So, I'm going to talk a little bit about
[3:11:40] engagement now because engagement is, as
[3:11:42] mentioned, a really important part of
[3:11:44] our process, but especially for this
[3:11:46] project, we want to make sure we have a
[3:11:48] very thorough engagement methodology
[3:11:50] because we want to reach as many county
[3:11:53] residents as possible. So the purpose of
[3:11:56] the engagement is to ensure as mentioned
[3:11:58] before that the needs assessment
[3:11:59] reflects lived experiences, the
[3:12:01] priorities and aspirations of residents
[3:12:04] and is not just informed by otherwise
[3:12:06] secondary data and what you could be
[3:12:09] called cold analysis which doesn't take
[3:12:10] into account the needs and priorities of
[3:12:13] locals.
[3:12:14] We're reaching residents across all
[3:12:16] hamlets, villages, and rural areas in
[3:12:19] the county. We're going to be talking to
[3:12:22] local organizations such as agricultural
[3:12:24] societies. We're going to be doing
[3:12:26] target groups as well. These could
[3:12:28] include seniors, for example, youth,
[3:12:29] indigenous communities, even seasonal
[3:12:31] visitors. And then the tourism and
[3:12:34] business sector, which is most impacted
[3:12:36] by this assessment and the assets that
[3:12:38] we are looking at. So, this would
[3:12:40] include tourism operators, local
[3:12:42] businesses, and regional partners.
[3:12:45] When it comes to how we're completing
[3:12:48] this engagement with all these different
[3:12:49] groups, we have the list of things here.
[3:12:52] So, we are doing a countywide public
[3:12:54] survey. This is online and in paper. It
[3:12:57] will be available in the county offices
[3:12:59] and libraries and schools to just
[3:13:02] generally gather feedback from people
[3:13:04] who are living in the county.
[3:13:07] We're also going to be doing stakeholder
[3:13:08] workshops and focus groups. So bringing
[3:13:11] together key groups of stakeholders in a
[3:13:14] engaging and productive way to
[3:13:16] understand their thoughts and gather
[3:13:18] their feedback. We're then going to be
[3:13:21] doing targeted outreach to key groups
[3:13:24] such as in small group meetings or even
[3:13:25] one-on-one interviews to ensure that all
[3:13:28] voices are heard, especially from under
[3:13:29] reppresented groups. This might include
[3:13:31] seniors, for example.
[3:13:33] We're then going to be doing business
[3:13:34] and tourism roundts. also linking
[3:13:36] recreation planning with economic
[3:13:38] development and visitor experience. So
[3:13:40] not just looking at it in a silo but
[3:13:43] seeing how it holistically fits the
[3:13:44] overall picture in the county. And then
[3:13:47] of course a public open house where we
[3:13:49] will we will share draft recommendations
[3:13:52] to validate our priorities before we
[3:13:54] finalize the strategy. This ensures that
[3:13:56] there's an opportunity for the public to
[3:13:58] look at exactly what is being
[3:13:59] recommended and seeing and making sure
[3:14:01] that that aligns with their vision for
[3:14:04] the future.
[3:14:08] In terms of our timeline, um again this
[3:14:10] is um a little bit in the past, so I'll
[3:14:11] talk about what is being done right now,
[3:14:13] but in July and August, we worked on
[3:14:15] finalizing the engagement plan and then
[3:14:17] designing survey and outreach materials,
[3:14:19] submitting content for a utility insert
[3:14:22] and newsletter and the newspaper and
[3:14:24] then also doing stakeholder outreach,
[3:14:26] beginning stakeholder outreach for the
[3:14:28] engagement.
[3:14:29] Late in August, we had launched a public
[3:14:31] survey. Uh we attended discovery night
[3:14:33] just last week. uh in early September
[3:14:36] and then we had done stakeholder
[3:14:38] interviews
[3:14:39] and now into September continuing on
[3:14:42] we're going to continue the survey
[3:14:44] promotion u we'll talk a little bit more
[3:14:46] about kind of what we're doing there in
[3:14:48] terms of advertisement and such uh we
[3:14:51] held initial workshops or sorry are
[3:14:52] going to be holding initial workshops
[3:14:54] and focus groups as mentioned to really
[3:14:56] target specific groups of stakeholders.
[3:14:59] We're going to be doing ongoing
[3:15:00] check-ins with the PSC to see where
[3:15:02] engagement is going and adjusting as
[3:15:03] necessary. And then we're going to do an
[3:15:06] engagement review at the midpoint in
[3:15:08] September to really ensure that the
[3:15:10] impact that we want to make sure we're
[3:15:11] having is being achieved. So just
[3:15:14] quickly as I mentioned in terms of
[3:15:15] survey promotion right now the survey
[3:15:17] has been shared when we had done
[3:15:18] discovery night before we shared a bunch
[3:15:20] of posters with say libraries and
[3:15:22] churches and such um to ensure that
[3:15:25] everybody had um an opportunity to
[3:15:27] advertise and ensure that county
[3:15:29] residents knew that there was a survey
[3:15:31] going around that we want to hear their
[3:15:32] voice. Uh but also we're going to be
[3:15:34] doing online promotion um and other
[3:15:37] promotions as well to ensure that as
[3:15:39] many people as possible are reached to
[3:15:41] in the county
[3:15:44] into October and then November and
[3:15:46] December. Uh we're going to be doing
[3:15:48] targeted follow-up outreach. We're going
[3:15:50] to be completing any remaining workshops
[3:15:52] and focus groups and then closing the
[3:15:54] survey and then preparing our
[3:15:55] preliminary findings. In November and
[3:15:57] December near the tail end of the
[3:15:59] project, we will do community road show
[3:16:02] sessions if required and then draft
[3:16:04] recommendations to PSSE and staff. Uh
[3:16:08] that ensures that again that the
[3:16:09] recommendations before they go out to
[3:16:10] the public are aligned with county goals
[3:16:13] and really reflect the county's vision.
[3:16:17] Our
[3:16:19] anticipated deliverables uh in three
[3:16:21] areas analysis and findings, action and
[3:16:24] strategy and communication tools are
[3:16:26] listed there. So for analysis and
[3:16:28] findings, we want to present a final
[3:16:30] report, an executive summary, facility
[3:16:32] database, and GIS mapping. Basically,
[3:16:34] all the work that we are doing when it
[3:16:36] goes out to um when we're going out to
[3:16:38] communities and doing asset mapping,
[3:16:39] when we're doing engagement, so on and
[3:16:41] so forth, that raw data is going to be
[3:16:43] provided, not just our reports. So you
[3:16:45] can look at it specifically in terms of
[3:16:47] the data that's been collected for
[3:16:49] action and strategy. The implementation
[3:16:51] roadmap, funding and partnership
[3:16:53] strategies, the actual for example
[3:16:55] action plans that we're going to be
[3:16:56] developing will be shared of course as
[3:16:58] part of our deliverable package and then
[3:17:00] communication tools. So this will
[3:17:02] include summary visuals, maps,
[3:17:04] infographics for county use.
[3:17:11] Our project schedule overall now that
[3:17:13] we've looked at engagement specifically
[3:17:15] is that we have done the initiation as
[3:17:17] mentioned we are working on engagement
[3:17:18] and data collection in phase two right
[3:17:20] now in phase three is when we're going
[3:17:23] to be doing analysis and strategy
[3:17:25] drafting. So we're going to analyze all
[3:17:27] the data we collect. This is again both
[3:17:29] the engagement data the asset data that
[3:17:31] we've collected also secondary data
[3:17:33] things like bench practices and
[3:17:35] benchmarking.
[3:17:36] And then in phase four when uh we are
[3:17:39] basically closing out the project, we're
[3:17:41] going to be doing that openhouse as
[3:17:42] mentioned. We're going to incorporate
[3:17:43] feedback that we receive from either the
[3:17:46] public or from the PSC or council or
[3:17:48] other uh key stakeholders as well.
[3:17:52] Present the final need assessment and
[3:17:53] council in January and close out the
[3:17:56] project. Then
[3:18:01] so for next steps as mentioned we have
[3:18:03] already done the first little paragraph
[3:18:05] there. We have finalized the inventory
[3:18:07] and data collection phase that's been
[3:18:09] complete as of last week. Uh the
[3:18:11] engagement activities will continue into
[3:18:13] September and October to ensure that
[3:18:16] again we hear as much as possible from
[3:18:18] county residents. We will then draft
[3:18:21] strategy recommendations based on that
[3:18:23] engagement findings based on those
[3:18:25] engagement findings and also based on
[3:18:26] the analysis that we complete um for
[3:18:29] best practices and comparables as
[3:18:31] mentioned before. and then our final
[3:18:33] report and the council presentation is
[3:18:35] expected in early 2026.
[3:18:40] Thank you for uh the presentation and
[3:18:42] the opportunity to come to your
[3:18:44] community and I would love to open the
[3:18:45] floor now for any questions.
[3:18:48] >> Okay, thank you for that presentation.
[3:18:51] » Okay, thank you for that presentation.
[3:18:51] Um are there questions from council
[3:18:53] related to the presentation the
[3:18:56] information we just have received? counc
[3:19:01] >> and m show you might be able to answer
[3:19:03] » and m show you might be able to answer
[3:19:03] this too. Um bracken is down
[3:19:06] >> is a regular facility. Um and I just
[3:19:08] » is a regular facility. Um and I just
[3:19:08] noticed that windborn's on here twice
[3:19:10] which I'm thinking one is KA's lake on
[3:19:12] the map.
[3:19:14] >> It's
[3:19:16] » It's
[3:19:16] so bracking brackers. Okay. Thank you
[3:19:22] » McGee.
[3:19:23] >> I also want to throw in Hiff that has a
[3:19:26] » I also want to throw in Hiff that has a
[3:19:26] ball diamond and things like that too.
[3:19:29] Y great. Um I wanted to say I'm I'm
[3:19:32] really impressed that you're at
[3:19:34] Discovery Night. I really find that that
[3:19:36] face-toface opportunity really um brings
[3:19:40] opportunity for people to realize that
[3:19:42] this is a real event that they can um it
[3:19:45] personalizes it for them. I think is
[3:19:47] what I'm trying to say. I'm was
[3:19:49] interested to know if there's any other
[3:19:51] persontoerson opportunity going to be
[3:19:53] doing in this stage in other parts of
[3:19:55] the county.
[3:19:56] >> Yes. would be, you know, parallel to
[3:19:58] » Yes. would be, you know, parallel to
[3:19:58] that.
[3:19:59] >> Yes, absolutely. Thank you, counselor.
[3:20:01] » Yes, absolutely. Thank you, counselor.
[3:20:01] So, um, 100% first of all, agree with
[3:20:03] you that the inperson is what works best
[3:20:07] in a lot of different communities.
[3:20:08] Inerson engagement, in person coming and
[3:20:10] showing people your face and showing
[3:20:12] them that, you know, it it just shows
[3:20:14] that you have a little bit of care about
[3:20:15] what you're trying to achieve in the
[3:20:16] project. So, 100% agree with you on
[3:20:18] that. And yes, absolutely. I think
[3:20:20] there's just an event coming up in a few
[3:20:21] uh a few weeks here that we're going to
[3:20:23] be going to for um more engagement
[3:20:25] activities. All the open houses, focus
[3:20:27] groups we're talking about will be
[3:20:28] organized in person and as much as
[3:20:30] possible, we want to make sure that the
[3:20:32] opportunity for in-person surveys is
[3:20:34] also um there. So yes, agree with you
[3:20:37] 100% and I think if we want to achieve
[3:20:39] the outcomes that we've set out for, the
[3:20:41] goals we've set out for in terms of
[3:20:42] engagement for this project, we have to
[3:20:44] do in person. and it will probably in my
[3:20:46] opinion be the primary way we gather
[3:20:48] feedback from people. So yes,
[3:20:50] >> Mr. Gon, thank you through the chair. I
[3:20:53] » Mr. Gon, thank you through the chair. I
[3:20:53] I want council to really understand that
[3:20:55] when we chose a proponent here, they
[3:20:57] were were really strong on their
[3:21:00] engagement numbers,
[3:21:02] which really plays into the accuracy of
[3:21:04] this report. No other consultant was
[3:21:07] going to guarantee those numbers. I'll
[3:21:09] make that very clear. So they were
[3:21:11] extremely strong with there will be
[3:21:14] engagement until these are met. So those
[3:21:18] are really strong commitments from this
[3:21:20] proponent to ensure that the county is
[3:21:22] heard and the report has uh a lower
[3:21:25] degree of potential error. So uh we're
[3:21:28] very excited for the opportunity to hear
[3:21:30] what the community is going to express
[3:21:33] and where this might lead decisions in
[3:21:35] the future.
[3:21:37] >> Go ahead, Mr. Ravi.
[3:21:38] » Go ahead, Mr. Ravi.
[3:21:38] >> Yeah, just seconding. Uh thank you um
[3:21:40] » Yeah, just seconding. Uh thank you um
[3:21:40] Kevin and just seconding exactly what
[3:21:42] was just said. So all of the timelines
[3:21:44] and everything that were uh proposed is
[3:21:46] assuming for example we're meeting those
[3:21:48] goals. If we're not meeting the goals
[3:21:49] for engagement we will do we are more
[3:21:52] than happy to continue to work as long
[3:21:54] as it's needed to ensure that those
[3:21:56] engagement numbers are met because um as
[3:21:59] was just said the accuracy of the report
[3:22:01] to make sure it's not a document frankly
[3:22:03] that ends up just on a shelf and is
[3:22:04] never used and collects dusk. We need to
[3:22:06] make sure that we're listening to all
[3:22:08] the county residents. So, we're going to
[3:22:09] be doing engagement for as long as
[3:22:11] needed to reach those outcomes, reach
[3:22:12] the goal, reach a level of comfort that
[3:22:14] we have heard from residents and that
[3:22:17] this document is going to be something
[3:22:18] that really guides our future.
[3:22:21] >> Councor Phobes,
[3:22:23] » Councor Phobes,
[3:22:23] >> I think this question is more for um
[3:22:25] » I think this question is more for um
[3:22:25] administration. Um, didn't we do a Can
[3:22:29] you just remind me? Didn't we do a
[3:22:30] feasibility study a little while ago?
[3:22:32] Will that information also be used in
[3:22:35] our facilities
[3:22:37] that they're looking at? feasibility
[3:22:39] study related to
[3:22:40] >> the buildings and what they needed and
[3:22:42] » the buildings and what they needed and
[3:22:42] those type of things. Did we not do a
[3:22:43] feasibility study on all of our
[3:22:45] buildings that the county held a while
[3:22:47] ago?
[3:22:47] >> Isn't that a facility assessment or Mr.
[3:22:49] » Isn't that a facility assessment or Mr.
[3:22:49] Hogan, can you help clarify for us,
[3:22:52] please?
[3:22:52] >> A few, Mr. Chair. I suspect that
[3:22:54] » A few, Mr. Chair. I suspect that
[3:22:54] councelor Fobes is referring to the
[3:22:56] facility condition assessment.
[3:22:58] >> Um, so that was going through a number
[3:22:59] » Um, so that was going through a number
[3:22:59] of the buildings looking at their at um
[3:23:03] life cycle, current state, things like
[3:23:05] that. So that information does exist.
[3:23:06] That project is still ongoing.
[3:23:08] >> Okay. Thank you.
[3:23:09] » Okay. Thank you.
[3:23:09] >> So, some of that data exists, some of it
[3:23:11] » So, some of that data exists, some of it
[3:23:11] is not there yet.
[3:23:12] >> Perfect. Thank you.
[3:23:15] » Sure, Miss Sherlock. Please.
[3:23:17] >> Sure. You'll let me talk?
[3:23:19] » Sure. You'll let me talk?
[3:23:19] >> Yes, absolutely.
[3:23:20] » Yes, absolutely.
[3:23:20] >> Just for clarification, that uh facility
[3:23:23] » Just for clarification, that uh facility
[3:23:23] assessment was strictly to Nihill County
[3:23:25] facilities um and was only to buildings.
[3:23:29] And so this um general assessment with
[3:23:32] uh the inventory that we're completing
[3:23:34] for the recreation side will also
[3:23:36] account things like playgrounds, the
[3:23:38] campground overall um things the
[3:23:42] facilities that aren't county facilities
[3:23:44] as well. Looking at um you know the TroU
[3:23:47] Pool, the Three Hills Aquatic Center,
[3:23:49] things like that. So it it just gives
[3:23:51] that broader scope and it's less of a
[3:23:54] building condition and more of a um you
[3:23:58] know recreation availability inventory.
[3:24:01] Um looking at these facilities, you
[3:24:03] know, a general life cycle of where
[3:24:05] they're at and then um you know what
[3:24:07] their usage is and who's who's going to
[3:24:10] them, how they're they're being utilized
[3:24:13] within the community. um and whether
[3:24:15] that opportunity is there for expansion
[3:24:19] or redirection into different um
[3:24:21] opportunities.
[3:24:25] » So I guess um sorry councelor
[3:24:27] Cunningham, I'll let you go first and
[3:24:29] then I'll jump in.
[3:24:30] >> Okay. Thank you. Um so because I was
[3:24:32] » Okay. Thank you. Um so because I was
[3:24:32] there last Wednesday and um we did get
[3:24:34] quite a few surveys um delivered. I have
[3:24:37] got some feedback um from some rate
[3:24:39] pairs already. little bit of confusion
[3:24:41] around um some of the survey questions.
[3:24:44] I know like number six says, "Please
[3:24:46] indicate how often you use the following
[3:24:48] indoor facilities in Nihill County." Um
[3:24:52] the Do you go ahead? Okay. Um the
[3:24:55] aquatic center. So we don't have an
[3:24:57] indoor aquatic facility within Nihill
[3:24:59] County. So would that want to be worded
[3:25:01] in Nihill County and our urban partners?
[3:25:04] Like I just somebody the feedback was
[3:25:05] just it was confusing because some of
[3:25:07] these facilities we don't actually have
[3:25:09] in Nihill County,
[3:25:10] >> right? And I the intention is that it
[3:25:13] » right? And I the intention is that it
[3:25:13] wouldn't be specific to in Nihill
[3:25:14] County. It's just overall how often are
[3:25:16] you using this type of facility.
[3:25:18] >> Okay. Because it specifically says
[3:25:20] » Okay. Because it specifically says
[3:25:20] Nihill County. So I wondered if we would
[3:25:22] want to change the wording on that. They
[3:25:23] just found it very confusing.
[3:25:24] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[3:25:25] » Yeah. Yeah.
[3:25:25] >> Yeah. We can absolutely look at that.
[3:25:26] » Yeah. We can absolutely look at that.
[3:25:26] >> And that was the same with 13 as well.
[3:25:28] » And that was the same with 13 as well.
[3:25:28] Please indicate how often use the
[3:25:30] following outdoor facilities in Nihill
[3:25:32] County. Um, some of them again we don't
[3:25:34] have in Niho County, but we would have
[3:25:36] within our urban partners. So I think we
[3:25:38] might just get a little bit more
[3:25:40] accuracy if we include both. That's just
[3:25:43] the feedback I got from residents that
[3:25:45] were filling out the survey.
[3:25:46] >> Mr. Gon,
[3:25:47] » Mr. Gon,
[3:25:47] >> thank you through the chair. I really
[3:25:49] » thank you through the chair. I really
[3:25:49] appreciate that uh level of feedback
[3:25:51] because we can make improvements with
[3:25:52] our communication strategy as we move
[3:25:54] forward. Um, I want the residents out
[3:25:57] there to know that our team is ready to
[3:25:59] answer any questions that come forward
[3:26:00] on this to adapt. So if there's things
[3:26:02] that they're unclear with, uh we have
[3:26:04] the team here that is ready to accept
[3:26:07] those questions and we can provide that
[3:26:10] information to all the counselors and
[3:26:12] and online to ensure uh should there be
[3:26:15] any uh questions or misunderstanding to
[3:26:18] any future engagement that we can
[3:26:20] clarify quickly so it doesn't feel
[3:26:23] ownorous on them in any way that they
[3:26:26] they have an ability to voice their
[3:26:27] opinion as needed.
[3:26:30] So, I recognize the fact that we're
[3:26:32] doing a
[3:26:34] uh inventory and assessment of
[3:26:37] recreation facilities within the
[3:26:38] geographic Neil County area. So, it's
[3:26:41] not just Neheil County. The question
[3:26:44] that is sort of rumbling around in the
[3:26:47] back of my head at this point in time is
[3:26:50] how are we determining the feedback and
[3:26:54] where it's coming from? So, if the
[3:26:57] purpose is for Nehill County to
[3:26:59] determine a 10-year plan going forward,
[3:27:02] are we assessing feedback from our
[3:27:05] residents or are we assessing feedback
[3:27:07] from whoever gives feedback to the
[3:27:09] survey? So, they potentially could be
[3:27:10] urban or rural and are is our focus on
[3:27:15] anyone who lives within our geographic
[3:27:17] area or is it specific to Nehill County?
[3:27:22] >> So, we uh in the sur there. The one of
[3:27:26] » So, we uh in the sur there. The one of
[3:27:26] the the first two questions there
[3:27:27] analyzes um what uh division you're in
[3:27:32] um within the municipality and then what
[3:27:34] uh if you're in an urban municipality,
[3:27:36] what urban municipality you're in. Um
[3:27:39] and so we are looking for that feedback
[3:27:41] from the region as a whole, but we will
[3:27:43] be able to break that out to Nehill
[3:27:45] County versus urban so that we are able
[3:27:48] to see um when we're looking at facility
[3:27:51] usage um both for kneehill residents
[3:27:55] using urbans and for urban residents
[3:27:57] using Kneehill facilities so that we can
[3:28:00] gather a full picture data of of the
[3:28:03] users of those facilities.
[3:28:06] >> Okay. So the funding is county. It's
[3:28:09] » Okay. So the funding is county. It's
[3:28:09] we're funding this
[3:28:11] >> project. Okay. And you said you want to
[3:28:15] » project. Okay. And you said you want to
[3:28:15] do the majority of the surveys hopefully
[3:28:18] in person.
[3:28:19] >> Um is there a way for people to access
[3:28:21] » Um is there a way for people to access
[3:28:21] the survey um through a QR code or some
[3:28:25] other way because I notice it's not very
[3:28:27] visible in our website and so I'm just
[3:28:31] wondering.
[3:28:32] >> Yes. So the website page is upcoming.
[3:28:34] » Yes. So the website page is upcoming.
[3:28:34] We're just working on getting that
[3:28:36] online. Um So then it'll have the link
[3:28:38] for everybody to access. And we are
[3:28:40] working um one of this the things that's
[3:28:43] in the engagement that's being worked on
[3:28:44] right now is uh the social media um
[3:28:48] campaign um that we'll see over the next
[3:28:50] few weeks that will link back to those
[3:28:53] pages. So at this point in time, we're
[3:28:55] in the very early stages of the survey.
[3:28:57] We're just trying to get all of the
[3:28:58] different pieces together, identify the,
[3:29:00] you know, question issues, things like
[3:29:02] that, uh, glitches that come up and then
[3:29:05] we'll be able to have that online
[3:29:06] presence and and have that uh, fully
[3:29:09] accessible and we will absolutely share
[3:29:11] that with council.
[3:29:13] >> Okay. And I mean, if you want feedback
[3:29:15] » Okay. And I mean, if you want feedback
[3:29:15] from council, can you share the survey
[3:29:17] with us and then we could give you
[3:29:19] feedback on how the questions are either
[3:29:21] directed or should be maybe more
[3:29:23] focused?
[3:29:24] >> Uh, absolutely. it is currently live and
[3:29:27] » Uh, absolutely. it is currently live and
[3:29:27] so we will keep things so that the
[3:29:30] questions themselves are um generally
[3:29:32] the same so that we're not trying to
[3:29:34] change things partway through but as for
[3:29:36] wording and and making things more clear
[3:29:38] we can absolutely do that within it
[3:29:41] >> okay just I don't think unless we were
[3:29:44] » okay just I don't think unless we were
[3:29:44] at the event in Three Hills we wouldn't
[3:29:46] have seen the content of the survey
[3:29:48] >> No
[3:29:52] go ahead councelor Cunningham
[3:29:53] >> yeah sorry I feel like I'm ahead of the
[3:29:55] » yeah sorry I feel like I'm ahead of the
[3:29:55] game here because I and and they did
[3:29:56] have little bookmarks that had the QR
[3:29:58] code. So, I don't know if you folks have
[3:29:59] some of those available, maybe you could
[3:30:00] give to council, but yeah.
[3:30:02] >> Um, so, uh, one of the questions that
[3:30:04] » Um, so, uh, one of the questions that
[3:30:04] came to me, um, more than once, question
[3:30:07] 23, to help better meet community needs
[3:30:09] for parks and recreation in Nihill
[3:30:10] County, would you support an increase in
[3:30:12] property taxes to enhance existing or
[3:30:15] develop new recreation facilities,
[3:30:16] programs, and services? So, it got asked
[3:30:19] to me, does that include um, a pavilion
[3:30:22] at Horseshoe Canyon? Am I am I
[3:30:24] committing to an increase or approving
[3:30:25] increase of tax? So, I think we want to
[3:30:27] clarify that because that came to me
[3:30:29] more than once. And then it does ask how
[3:30:31] much would you be willing to pay because
[3:30:33] somebody said, well, it could be
[3:30:34] perceived as a recreational facility. It
[3:30:36] could be perceived as a tourism. So,
[3:30:37] that that one I think we're going to get
[3:30:39] fast and furious. So, I would see a real
[3:30:42] need for clarification within that one.
[3:30:44] >> Yeah.
[3:30:44] » Yeah.
[3:30:44] >> Yeah. Please. And the intent with that
[3:30:46] » Yeah. Please. And the intent with that
[3:30:46] question was a general um you know if
[3:30:49] you're looking similar to how the Trochu
[3:30:51] pool is funded through the additional um
[3:30:54] tax to the area of the residents round
[3:30:58] um and so in general is that something
[3:31:01] you're in favor of or do you not want to
[3:31:03] see additional taxes overall? Um but we
[3:31:06] can absolutely look at the clarification
[3:31:07] of that and give people some context to
[3:31:09] it.
[3:31:10] >> Yeah. And I think because of the
[3:31:11] » Yeah. And I think because of the
[3:31:11] conversation that's been
[3:31:14] more prominent here at the council table
[3:31:16] around what's happening in Horseshoe
[3:31:18] Canyon and some of the initiatives
[3:31:19] there, it's going to be very easy to
[3:31:21] confuse the question as to be specific
[3:31:23] to Horseshoe Canyon. So if we're asking
[3:31:26] a more general question, we need to be
[3:31:28] very clear in the intent so that people
[3:31:30] understand
[3:31:32] >> exactly what the intent is because the
[3:31:33] » exactly what the intent is because the
[3:31:33] feedback will be probably relatively
[3:31:35] negative about recreation funding if
[3:31:38] it's specific.
[3:31:40] the horse you can depending on what part
[3:31:42] of the county you're in and depending on
[3:31:43] the individuals.
[3:31:45] >> Yeah, absolutely.
[3:31:48] » Yeah, absolutely.
[3:31:48] >> Other thoughts or questions?
[3:31:51] » Other thoughts or questions?
[3:31:51] Uh, councelor Phobes, please.
[3:31:53] >> So, I um we do strategic plan every four
[3:31:55] » So, I um we do strategic plan every four
[3:31:56] years when a new council gets on. So, I
[3:31:58] guess this would be more for um CEO
[3:32:00] Hogan is is will this report be in
[3:32:03] conjunction with that with the new
[3:32:05] council that will be going through that
[3:32:06] um that strategic plan when anyone comes
[3:32:10] on just confirming that for
[3:32:12] >> Mr. Hogan if you would please
[3:32:14] » Mr. Hogan if you would please
[3:32:14] >> through the chair the intent is that
[3:32:16] » through the chair the intent is that
[3:32:16] this would be tied into council
[3:32:17] decision- making going forward so when
[3:32:19] they look at the next 10 years so
[3:32:21] whether that's strategic planning uh
[3:32:23] yearly budget identifying whether uh
[3:32:26] what facilities council may want to go
[3:32:28] forward with or not um and that's when I
[3:32:31] say that I'm meaning that in context of
[3:32:32] not just council's decision by
[3:32:34] themselves but as a region um so as an
[3:32:37] example um I hope I'm not overstepping
[3:32:40] uh overpromising anything here, but you
[3:32:42] know, we currently have three arenas,
[3:32:45] three indoor arenas in the county. Um,
[3:32:47] do we need three? Do we need five? Do we
[3:32:49] need two? Right? That starts to
[3:32:52] influence decisions that we make with uh
[3:32:55] not just with among our own
[3:32:56] municipality, but in in partnerships or
[3:32:59] discussions with our neighbors as well.
[3:33:03] Um, Deputy McGee,
[3:33:06] >> I just wanted to go back to the uh
[3:33:08] » I just wanted to go back to the uh
[3:33:08] generalized question. Um,
[3:33:11] it's a real hard line for council to
[3:33:13] know when we're getting into the weeds
[3:33:15] that is for you to do and uh when it is
[3:33:18] time to speak up. I I struggle with that
[3:33:20] sometimes and this is an example of
[3:33:22] that. The reality is council is your
[3:33:25] first line on of the feel of people and
[3:33:28] how people interpret the information.
[3:33:31] And we here have more of a
[3:33:35] academic style of understanding the
[3:33:37] information as to opposed a real life in
[3:33:40] their homes style. And I think sometimes
[3:33:43] when we do surveys we forget to adapt it
[3:33:46] to that. So a general question is
[3:33:48] absolutely intimidating and and
[3:33:50] difficult for people to ask. I think
[3:33:52] you'll find out from my experiences from
[3:33:54] other jobs where I used to do surveys,
[3:33:57] they tend not to be answered wholesomely
[3:33:58] and become not valuable information in
[3:34:00] the end after all. So I really uh would
[3:34:03] encourage for me it would make more
[3:34:07] important I would really appreciate
[3:34:09] knowing would you put more money towards
[3:34:12] more playgrounds, would you put money
[3:34:14] towards sporting events? If you
[3:34:17] categorize those so that people know
[3:34:19] specifically what you're talking about,
[3:34:21] they would be willing to answer. But
[3:34:23] when you make it general like that,
[3:34:25] they're going to say no or not do it
[3:34:28] because they don't know what they're
[3:34:29] saying yes to. They do need a very clear
[3:34:31] language to answer that question
[3:34:33] honestly.
[3:34:35] >> And and so that's my feedback and uh do
[3:34:38] » And and so that's my feedback and uh do
[3:34:38] with it what you think is wise.
[3:34:42] I guess the other question I had um and
[3:34:45] again it's around the context of what
[3:34:47] Nehil County currently is doing. Is
[3:34:50] there information or awareness being
[3:34:52] provided to the survey respondents
[3:34:55] around the amount of funding Neihill
[3:34:58] County currently is putting into
[3:35:00] recreation
[3:35:01] facilities and activities outside of the
[3:35:04] actual confines of Neil County. So what
[3:35:07] we're doing with our urban partners and
[3:35:09] the amount of money that's already being
[3:35:10] spent in those environments because it
[3:35:13] does provide a context because
[3:35:14] oftentimes
[3:35:16] um residents don't recognize boundaries,
[3:35:19] municipalities do. And so um it's it's
[3:35:24] difficult sometimes for residents to um
[3:35:28] recognize that there is a so when you
[3:35:30] ask people where they live, not very
[3:35:32] many people say Nhill County.
[3:35:36] I a habit of saying that because I
[3:35:37] happen to be a counselor and sitting as
[3:35:39] Reeve for Nehil County. My wife says
[3:35:41] Troer I say no dear we live in Nehill
[3:35:44] County just to get that clarity but the
[3:35:48] boundary for expenditures of funding for
[3:35:52] Nehill County doesn't end at our
[3:35:53] boundary. It crosses those boundaries
[3:35:55] into the urbans and we are supporting
[3:35:58] and helping recreation take place in our
[3:36:00] urban neighbors. um that funding does
[3:36:03] not necessarily flow back the other way.
[3:36:06] And so I think there needs to be the
[3:36:09] context needs to be an understanding of
[3:36:11] what recreation means not only to
[3:36:14] Knehill County but to our urbans and I
[3:36:16] agree with where we're going with it but
[3:36:18] at the same time there needs to be
[3:36:20] clarity about how that funding happens
[3:36:22] too. So, and so I I'm not sure that the
[3:36:26] purpose of this whole uh engagement is
[3:36:29] to get to that level or not, but when
[3:36:32] we're asking people already if they're
[3:36:34] supportive of spending more money, do
[3:36:36] they understand how much money we
[3:36:38] currently are spending and where that
[3:36:40] money is being directed? And to me,
[3:36:42] that's an important part. So, when you
[3:36:44] come and say to me, am I supportive of
[3:36:46] spending more money? First and foremost,
[3:36:48] I have to know what money is being spent
[3:36:50] and where it's being spent. And so
[3:36:52] that's that's a big part of the clarity
[3:36:55] I think that's required. And so when you
[3:36:58] say to me, would you spend more money on
[3:37:00] the recreation? I'm going to say yes
[3:37:02] because of my awareness of what's
[3:37:04] happening. But not everybody's going to
[3:37:06] say that because they're not necessarily
[3:37:09] either prepared to support more
[3:37:11] recreation or prepared to support
[3:37:15] um or
[3:37:19] um facilities.
[3:37:21] um if they don't exactly know what we're
[3:37:24] currently doing. That's to me that's
[3:37:26] what So when people talk to me about say
[3:37:30] a facility like Horseshoe Canyon and the
[3:37:32] money that Neil County spends there,
[3:37:35] if I said to them, do you realize that
[3:37:37] we've spent as much money in the Ronor
[3:37:39] Memorial Arena as we've spent in
[3:37:42] Horseshoe Canyon?
[3:37:45] If if that was a true statement, a lot
[3:37:47] of them would not be aware of that. But
[3:37:49] they would know what money has been
[3:37:51] spent in the one facility but not
[3:37:53] necessarily to maintain the other. And
[3:37:55] so that's there's complexity that
[3:37:59] >> I think as deputy reed McGee was
[3:38:01] » I think as deputy reed McGee was
[3:38:01] implying that as counselors we
[3:38:03] understand some of that complexity but
[3:38:05] not necessarily the everyday man on the
[3:38:07] street.
[3:38:09] So that's to me that's one of the
[3:38:12] concerns I have is in terms of that
[3:38:14] understanding and having the base
[3:38:16] knowledge to begin to answer the
[3:38:18] questions.
[3:38:23] » Um
[3:38:24] >> you ask for feedback
[3:38:27] » you ask for feedback
[3:38:27] >> and we're always happy to receive it.
[3:38:29] » and we're always happy to receive it.
[3:38:29] Um, so with that, that kind of context
[3:38:32] will be included in the final report.
[3:38:34] But in regards to the survey here, um,
[3:38:37] is that something that you would be
[3:38:38] looking for us to add to the survey and
[3:38:41] to these discussions? Um, because it's
[3:38:45] currently in part of the data analysis
[3:38:47] portion and where we're at right now. we
[3:38:51] can put things uh into the
[3:38:53] categorization like um had been
[3:38:55] requested, you know, putting would you
[3:38:57] support more funding to playgrounds or
[3:39:01] these specific things. Um but I don't
[3:39:03] know if we have the information together
[3:39:06] right now to be able to get it into the
[3:39:08] survey in a timely manner um in that
[3:39:11] way.
[3:39:12] >> Yeah. So maybe just following up on that
[3:39:14] » Yeah. So maybe just following up on that
[3:39:14] as well. one um exactly as Fall has
[3:39:16] mentioned in terms of categorizing where
[3:39:18] the money is or where people would be
[3:39:20] willing to spend money. I think
[3:39:21] absolutely we can make that adjustment.
[3:39:23] we should also be able to just um key in
[3:39:27] the previous responses like accordingly
[3:39:29] and just make like so it wouldn't have
[3:39:30] an effect on anybody who's um already
[3:39:33] done the survey um in terms of what's
[3:39:35] being um discussed um uh for ensuring
[3:39:38] that people understand the context and
[3:39:40] everything exactly as founders mentioned
[3:39:41] it's going to be in the final report but
[3:39:43] I'm also seeing perhaps an opportunity
[3:39:44] that in those other engagements that
[3:39:46] we're going to be doing things like
[3:39:47] focus groups the openhouse specified
[3:39:50] interviews uh group engagement so on and
[3:39:52] so forth we can ensure that that context
[3:39:54] is presented prior to us starting the
[3:39:56] engagement. We usually do that anyway in
[3:39:58] things like group engagement where we
[3:40:00] give an overview of the project and some
[3:40:02] context that already exists. So we can
[3:40:04] just do that as part of that is that you
[3:40:06] know before we ask the question about
[3:40:07] are you willing to spend more money
[3:40:09] which exactly as you know fully
[3:40:11] appreciated here and as is being
[3:40:13] mentioned by council is a very very
[3:40:15] tough question to ask because it's it's
[3:40:17] you know it's your money like um are you
[3:40:19] really willing to spend it? we can
[3:40:20] ensure that when we're doing engagement
[3:40:22] that we are informing people of exactly
[3:40:26] the context that um has been discussed
[3:40:28] so that they are aware of exactly what
[3:40:30] is already being spent and where it is
[3:40:32] being spent before they fully answer
[3:40:34] that question. So I think um in the
[3:40:38] survey um it it it might get to a level
[3:40:40] of detail which could detract from the
[3:40:42] completion of the survey is my only
[3:40:44] concern there. But in terms of providing
[3:40:46] information in these other engagements
[3:40:48] 100% and in the final report as well we
[3:40:50] will ensure that it is there.
[3:40:52] >> Mr. Mr. Hogan, you wanted to comment
[3:40:55] » Mr. Mr. Hogan, you wanted to comment
[3:40:55] >> um through through the chair just to
[3:40:57] » um through through the chair just to
[3:40:57] echo some of the concerns that have just
[3:40:58] been brought up around the getting too
[3:41:00] granular with the survey and what
[3:41:02] because there are some things that we
[3:41:03] don't
[3:41:04] >> even asking a question like do you
[3:41:06] » even asking a question like do you
[3:41:06] support spending more money on
[3:41:07] playgrounds without being able to
[3:41:09] demonstrate what a playground actually
[3:41:11] costs? Um you can spend a quarter
[3:41:13] million and not get much of a playground
[3:41:15] >> uh with that. So and I again it's what
[3:41:18] » uh with that. So and I again it's what
[3:41:18] is the public awareness around some of
[3:41:20] those things. So, some of those
[3:41:21] questions I think um are around is there
[3:41:25] a general vibe, right? Is as a member of
[3:41:28] the public, do you feel that you're
[3:41:30] spending enough on that's the wrong way
[3:41:31] to phrase it, are you comfortable with
[3:41:33] where you're with what you feel the
[3:41:35] county is spending on recreation versus
[3:41:37] versus not? Um because when we get into
[3:41:40] the development of some of these sites,
[3:41:41] whether it's a ball diamond, a
[3:41:43] playground, um the costs on some of
[3:41:45] these things, like it's, you know,
[3:41:46] you're not talking tens of thousands to
[3:41:48] develop a playground or sorry, a ball
[3:41:50] diamond. You're actually talking
[3:41:51] hundreds of thousands to develop a ball
[3:41:53] diamond. And so there are as you get
[3:41:57] into some of those things, we can't
[3:41:58] provide all of that detail to
[3:42:01] necessarily inform that decision. And so
[3:42:03] there is a broad sentiment that I think
[3:42:05] the survey looks for and not wanting to
[3:42:07] risk getting too granular with some of
[3:42:09] the some of the items, right? Or as they
[3:42:12] as they go through in terms of when
[3:42:13] people are first filling it out,
[3:42:19] » Mr. Ganon.
[3:42:21] >> Thank uh thank you through the chair. I
[3:42:23] » Thank uh thank you through the chair. I
[3:42:23] just want to add that the purpose of
[3:42:26] this report is to provide findings to
[3:42:29] create opportunity or understanding.
[3:42:31] It's not to propose a project at this
[3:42:34] point or to say we're going to build
[3:42:38] this because a proponent says they're
[3:42:41] willing to spend money on it at this
[3:42:43] time. It's a planning tool for us to
[3:42:46] advise that we've looked at the
[3:42:48] community's needs, what they're using,
[3:42:50] uh what they would like that we
[3:42:53] currently don't have and potentially
[3:42:56] create a master plan to understand where
[3:42:58] we going to go from here, where our
[3:43:00] investment strategies are for that and
[3:43:03] really obtain further knowledge to that
[3:43:06] direction and understanding from
[3:43:08] council. So, this is a tool and the
[3:43:10] stats can be used in multiple ways. uh
[3:43:14] including understanding who's using our
[3:43:16] facilities, what facilities are we using
[3:43:18] when we look at agreements. It's going
[3:43:20] to really pull more and more information
[3:43:23] and data sets to be used in economic
[3:43:26] development in our planning aspects in
[3:43:29] our future parks and wreck
[3:43:30] opportunities. So, this really gives us
[3:43:33] a roadmap to what potentially is that
[3:43:36] next step and look at investment
[3:43:39] strategies or opportunities and make
[3:43:41] sure that we're on the same page with
[3:43:43] council. So, when we put a level of
[3:43:45] effort out there, we're putting it
[3:43:47] strategically and not just doing a
[3:43:49] little bit here, a little bit there, a
[3:43:51] little bit here, and all of a sudden the
[3:43:53] plan does not coincide with uh a future
[3:43:57] direction or opportunity. So, um I just
[3:44:01] want to understand some of these terms
[3:44:03] are real general in nature. Um they're
[3:44:06] intended to be general in nature and and
[3:44:09] unfortunately the IP2 standard really
[3:44:12] talks about um there will be people that
[3:44:15] won't like questions. There will be
[3:44:17] people that will struggle with answering
[3:44:19] some of the questions. Um but it it's
[3:44:22] made to look at stats a generalist point
[3:44:25] of view at this point versus really get
[3:44:27] into that granular aspect of um nuts and
[3:44:31] bolts of budgeting.
[3:44:37] Okay.
[3:44:42] Any other questions from council or
[3:44:45] comments?
[3:44:52] All right. Well, then what I'm going to
[3:44:54] say is thank you for being here today
[3:44:57] and bringing your presentation. It's
[3:44:59] very much appreciated.
[3:45:01] Um, I guess I'll look forward to seeing
[3:45:04] what happens in terms of the public
[3:45:06] engagements and the information that we
[3:45:09] look forward to having come back. So,
[3:45:12] thank you. Um,
[3:45:14] yeah.
[3:45:17] >> Awesome. Thank you.
[3:45:18] » Awesome. Thank you.
[3:45:18] >> Perfect. Likewise, thank you uh so much
[3:45:20] » Perfect. Likewise, thank you uh so much
[3:45:20] to council for having us and allowing us
[3:45:22] to present. And of course, if anything,
[3:45:23] well, we'll be back to, you know, share
[3:45:25] more findings and more information. And
[3:45:27] if any questions come up in the interim
[3:45:29] on anything, please uh you know, through
[3:45:31] Fallon, you can just let us know. We are
[3:45:33] always uh our emails and our phones are
[3:45:35] always open, so we're more than happy to
[3:45:37] answer anything that might come up.
[3:45:38] Thank you again for having us.
[3:45:40] >> Yes. Thanks for being here today.
[3:45:44] » Do you have bookmarks is Debbie's
[3:45:46] question.
[3:45:50] We'll be here for a while.
[3:45:56] » Yeah, we will.
[3:46:10] » Okay, thanks again very much. Appreciate
[3:46:13] you bringing us the update. Thank you.
[3:46:16] All
[3:46:30] right.
[3:46:31] Listening.
[3:46:39] Okay. Um so moving on in our agenda then
[3:46:45] we will be at
[3:46:50] uh 7.1 I believe it is
[3:46:54] just make sure I'm correct
[3:46:57] 7.1 which is policy 3-1 council
[3:47:00] compensation and expense reimbursement.
[3:47:04] So welcome Miss Khaled.
[3:47:08] >> Welcome back. Thank you so much. And I
[3:47:10] » Welcome back. Thank you so much. And I
[3:47:10] think we have a few minutes left to
[3:47:12] still say good morning council.
[3:47:17] Almost there, huh? So, I'm here today to
[3:47:20] present the draft policy 3-1, the
[3:47:23] council compensation and expense
[3:47:25] reimbursement. So on August 26th, 2025,
[3:47:29] council directed administration to
[3:47:31] update specific compensation amounts
[3:47:33] within that policy following a
[3:47:36] presentation to council of a
[3:47:38] compensation analysis. This analysis
[3:47:41] compared Nihill County's current
[3:47:42] compensation structure and amounts with
[3:47:45] that of nine other municipalities.
[3:47:47] The same comparator municipalities used
[3:47:50] in the staff compensation review were
[3:47:52] referenced to maintain alignment in the
[3:47:54] benchmarking process.
[3:47:57] This direction stemmed from previous
[3:47:59] discussions around the current review of
[3:48:01] council compensation which is required
[3:48:03] ahead of the 2025 to 2029 council term.
[3:48:08] Rather than establishing an external
[3:48:10] council compensation committee, council
[3:48:12] opted to conduct the review internally
[3:48:15] to ensure consistency with the approach
[3:48:17] used in the previous review cycle.
[3:48:20] Council also identified key components
[3:48:22] of the policy for administration to
[3:48:24] review. Specifically, that would be the
[3:48:27] monthly salary, meeting per DM amounts,
[3:48:30] meal allowances, mileage, communication
[3:48:32] allowances, and divisional meeting
[3:48:34] allowances.
[3:48:36] Administration is presenting the revised
[3:48:39] proposed policy 3-1 for council's
[3:48:41] discussion and consideration.
[3:48:47] Much of the policy's components have
[3:48:49] remained the same. If council wishes, I
[3:48:51] can go over all the components of the
[3:48:53] policy or we can focus on the aspects
[3:48:56] that have changed. So, I'm looking to
[3:48:57] see how council would want to proceed
[3:48:59] with that.
[3:49:02] » Do you want to walk through the policy
[3:49:04] or you want to deal with the changes?
[3:49:08] >> Sounds like um the desire is to deal
[3:49:11] » Sounds like um the desire is to deal
[3:49:11] with the things that are changing. So,
[3:49:14] if you don't mind, please.
[3:49:18] » Okay. With the changes that we'll be
[3:49:20] focusing on, before we get into the
[3:49:21] numbers, I did want to note a proposed
[3:49:24] change for wording. This would be on
[3:49:27] page 84 of the package. Um, number 18 to
[3:49:32] it's um the REV allowance for attending
[3:49:35] ad hoc meetings.
[3:49:38] The last part of that sentence states
[3:49:40] the reev is authorized to attend and
[3:49:42] receive a perdm for his attendance.
[3:49:45] Administration is proposing to change
[3:49:47] that wording to his slash her
[3:49:50] attendance.
[3:49:57] So we can take that into consideration
[3:49:58] as we're moving forward.
[3:50:01] As for the aspects that have changed,
[3:50:04] the monthly salary was discussed to be
[3:50:06] changed for the reev from 3,122
[3:50:10] to 3,450.
[3:50:12] The deputy reef amount would change from
[3:50:15] 2,667
[3:50:17] to 3,000 and the counselor amount would
[3:50:20] change from 2,334
[3:50:23] to 2,700.
[3:50:27] The current salary amounts are the
[3:50:29] current the corrected amounts that were
[3:50:31] presented in the August 26th, 2025
[3:50:34] council meeting. As mentioned in the
[3:50:36] policy, the monthly rate will be revised
[3:50:38] every year as needed based on market
[3:50:40] adjustments.
[3:50:42] Another aspect that was also changed was
[3:50:45] the meeting per DMs in terms of the
[3:50:49] administration corrected amounts. So the
[3:50:51] current policy now shows that it's 180
[3:50:54] for half day and for full day 361 which
[3:50:58] is now going to be reflected in the
[3:51:00] proposed policy. And similar to the
[3:51:04] previous aspect, the current policy per
[3:51:07] DM amounts will also be revised every
[3:51:09] year as needed based on the market
[3:51:11] adjustments.
[3:51:13] And the last aspect that would be
[3:51:14] changed is the meal allowance. This
[3:51:17] would be to be in line with policy 3-3
[3:51:20] council appointees reimbursement. So
[3:51:23] breakfast will change from $15 to $20.
[3:51:27] Lunch will be the same $15 to $20 and
[3:51:30] dinner will change from 25 to 30. So the
[3:51:33] total amount that will be changed will
[3:51:35] be 55 per day to $70 per day.
[3:51:40] the meal compensation model which would
[3:51:42] be the receipt based or the established
[3:51:44] meal allowance amount will remain
[3:51:46] unchanged
[3:51:47] and with that I will conclude the
[3:51:49] presentation. Thank you
[3:51:53] and thank you escalid. Um questions from
[3:51:57] council, comment, uh discussion,
[3:52:11] very quiet group.
[3:52:19] » Uh Deputy Reed McGee,
[3:52:22] >> I am feeling uncomfortable with the uh
[3:52:25] » I am feeling uncomfortable with the uh
[3:52:25] rate of increase to our monthly salary.
[3:52:29] Um it's just for feedback. I know we've
[3:52:31] gone around the table lots with it and
[3:52:33] this is where we landed, but I just feel
[3:52:36] that's still a bit on the high side. Um
[3:52:38] I'd rather see that our increases are um
[3:52:43] like I'm thinking like 255 for the
[3:52:46] counselor.
[3:52:57] Uh, Deputy A, do you want to be more
[3:52:58] clear in terms of the numbers that
[3:53:00] you're considering or suggesting?
[3:53:03] >> So, yeah, for I sorry, I just worked out
[3:53:05] » So, yeah, for I sorry, I just worked out
[3:53:06] the number for for counselor amount
[3:53:08] would be um 2500
[3:53:13] and then um accordingly I didn't work
[3:53:16] out from there. I'm sorry, but
[3:53:34] so if you do the math, it would be 2500,
[3:53:37] 2,800, and 3250.
[3:53:49] just make a comment.
[3:53:50] >> Go ahead, councelor Peter, please.
[3:53:52] » Go ahead, councelor Peter, please.
[3:53:52] >> Um, so I'm going to disagree with Deputy
[3:53:55] » Um, so I'm going to disagree with Deputy
[3:53:55] Ree McGee. Um, and the reason is I know
[3:53:59] I am stepping down, but I want to make
[3:54:02] sure that everybody has the opportunity
[3:54:03] to sit in this chair because it does
[3:54:05] take a lot of your time and so um, you
[3:54:10] got to be able to
[3:54:14] encourage or get those people that are
[3:54:17] teetering on whether to to become a
[3:54:19] counselor or not because of today's cost
[3:54:22] of living. Um so I I I like what I see
[3:54:26] in front of you and I thank you for
[3:54:27] presenting um over the last numerous
[3:54:29] meetings to us. Um but that's just my
[3:54:32] feeling.
[3:54:34] >> Thank you councelor Penner. Councelor
[3:54:35] » Thank you councelor Penner. Councelor
[3:54:35] Witstock.
[3:54:40] » As far as the renumeration goes, I I
[3:54:43] think the reason that we've we've gone
[3:54:46] up as much as we have is because we were
[3:54:48] never taxed prior to the federal
[3:54:51] government taking on that uh taxation
[3:54:54] part for municipal counselors pay. So
[3:55:00] what we used to get previously
[3:55:04] is probably more than what we're getting
[3:55:07] now when you consider it's going to be
[3:55:09] taxed.
[3:55:11] And
[3:55:13] is that a reason to increase? And we're
[3:55:16] looking at not our wages, we're looking
[3:55:18] at the next council's wages.
[3:55:21] I mean, if they're going to come in,
[3:55:22] they're going to get taxed on their uh
[3:55:25] monthly salaries.
[3:55:29] I mean, it's great to look at these
[3:55:31] numbers and say, "Well, that's too
[3:55:32] much." But it's when you get your check,
[3:55:35] you're going to say, "Well, where is
[3:55:36] what? Where's the numbers that I was
[3:55:38] told?" Good
[3:55:39] >> point.
[3:55:40] » point.
[3:55:40] >> So,
[3:55:41] » So,
[3:55:42] I mean, if it wasn't the taxation part,
[3:55:43] I if the feds hadn't changed the
[3:55:46] taxation part, I think we'd have been
[3:55:48] all right. But they did change it.
[3:55:50] >> They did.
[3:55:51] » They did.
[3:55:51] >> So, that's that's my comment to this.
[3:55:53] » So, that's that's my comment to this.
[3:55:53] And as far as a predium goes, I know
[3:55:55] you're not going to get rich sitting
[3:55:56] here, but
[3:55:59] you do spend a lot of time sitting here.
[3:56:04] » Thank you for that, Council Wistock.
[3:56:06] Councelor Christie, please.
[3:56:07] >> I guess my comments similar to FaZe
[3:56:09] » I guess my comments similar to FaZe
[3:56:09] where I thought it was high and then I
[3:56:10] remembered that this is spread over four
[3:56:13] years. So then all of a sudden it
[3:56:15] doesn't look so high. So that's the part
[3:56:17] that I looked at. So I'm comfortable
[3:56:19] with where we're at.
[3:56:22] >> Okay. Any other comments, discussion?
[3:56:24] » Okay. Any other comments, discussion?
[3:56:24] Councelor Cunningham, please.
[3:56:26] >> Sorry. And I know we talked about this
[3:56:27] » Sorry. And I know we talked about this
[3:56:27] last time, but if you guys could just
[3:56:29] remind me um I know um the um councelor
[3:56:33] that sat in my chair last time was um
[3:56:37] pretty advocated for lower wages for
[3:56:40] council and and I believe it's another
[3:56:42] council member that actually brought it
[3:56:43] forward. So
[3:56:46] the previous council took a wage
[3:56:48] reduction. Can you just remind me at
[3:56:50] that time how much of a wage reduction
[3:56:53] that council took because that I mean
[3:56:55] that's quite
[3:56:58] unheard of right in in business or in
[3:57:01] any other industry taking a reduction
[3:57:04] does not happen that often. So I'm just
[3:57:06] curious like are we does do these
[3:57:09] current um rates reflect close to what
[3:57:13] what the previous council was making
[3:57:15] before it was reduced?
[3:57:18] >> Does anybody know?
[3:57:20] » Does anybody know?
[3:57:20] and we discussed it and sorry I just I
[3:57:22] can't I don't have it with me either. So
[3:57:24] yeah,
[3:57:25] >> Deputy Eve McGee
[3:57:26] » Deputy Eve McGee
[3:57:26] >> I don't have an answer for how much of a
[3:57:28] » I don't have an answer for how much of a
[3:57:28] rejection we took. It was significant. I
[3:57:30] do remember that and I remember um that
[3:57:35] the reason why we came to these numbers
[3:57:37] is we did compare it to our 50
[3:57:39] percentile thing and decided to use that
[3:57:40] as the benchmark as opposed to history,
[3:57:45] right? because that's what we decided is
[3:57:46] the benchmark um before. So I think when
[3:57:49] we look at that number um my suggestion
[3:57:52] is too low but
[3:57:55] that's uh I think that's where we came
[3:57:58] with this number is from that criteria
[3:58:01] instead.
[3:58:04] >> Mr. Hogan. Yes, please.
[3:58:05] » Mr. Hogan. Yes, please.
[3:58:05] >> Uh through Mr. Eve, if that's
[3:58:07] » Uh through Mr. Eve, if that's
[3:58:07] information that that council wants, um
[3:58:09] we can we'll go back and find the
[3:58:11] motion. That won't take us very long.
[3:58:13] Um, but if you if you feel that's
[3:58:15] valuable, which think I I'm hearing that
[3:58:17] it is, um, we can we can look that up
[3:58:20] quickly.
[3:58:23] >> So, I know the rationale for why we made
[3:58:25] » So, I know the rationale for why we made
[3:58:25] the change we did because I put that
[3:58:28] rationale forward and at the time we
[3:58:30] were asking our staff to u not take a
[3:58:34] cost of living increase. Um and so we
[3:58:38] felt as council that it uh behooved us
[3:58:41] to set the example and it was really
[3:58:44] unfair of us to move forward or increase
[3:58:48] salary when we're asking our own people
[3:58:51] not to and so um
[3:58:55] we made the choice to take that
[3:58:57] reduction to set the example for the
[3:58:59] organization as a whole and I think
[3:59:01] that's a very appropriate action on our
[3:59:03] behalf
[3:59:05] and to be honest I don't remember the
[3:59:07] exact percentage reduction that we took
[3:59:10] but it was to give
[3:59:13] to demonstrate the council is
[3:59:14] responsible to provide leadership
[3:59:19] and the numbers that we're talking here
[3:59:22] as you pointed out deputy e McGee are
[3:59:24] below the 50% which is the target for
[3:59:27] our own uh individuals our own people.
[3:59:32] So we're still maybe in some ways
[3:59:35] leading by example.
[3:59:48] Okay. The only other comment perhaps I
[3:59:51] want to make is I did have some
[3:59:52] conversation around um
[3:59:57] what might be considered appropriate or
[4:00:00] whe whether a counselor is worth what
[4:00:03] they're being paid or not. And um what I
[4:00:08] would say is I really feel that
[4:00:11] the group of individuals that sit at
[4:00:13] this table do provide a service to our
[4:00:15] community and um
[4:00:19] yes we are compensated for that but I
[4:00:21] don't believe we're overcompensated and
[4:00:23] the time and the commitment that's put
[4:00:26] forward by this group is is is
[4:00:30] appreciated certainly by me sitting in
[4:00:32] the chair that I am. When I look around
[4:00:34] the room and look at the people who are
[4:00:35] serving with me, I very much appreciate
[4:00:37] the efforts that you're making and I
[4:00:40] think that the majority of the residents
[4:00:42] who live in Neil County do the same. And
[4:00:44] so
[4:00:46] we want to attract uh people who want to
[4:00:50] be here and not because of the money,
[4:00:52] but we don't want the money to be an
[4:00:54] impediment to their being at this table.
[4:00:57] And so
[4:00:59] I really feel fair compensation for the
[4:01:02] time spent is is reasonable.
[4:01:05] Whether that's me sitting here or that's
[4:01:07] somebody else sitting here that's
[4:01:10] regardless the point is that whoever
[4:01:12] sits here should be fairly compensated.
[4:01:16] councor popes
[4:01:18] >> and I'll just bring that to one of the
[4:01:19] » and I'll just bring that to one of the
[4:01:19] things like I sit on the hill housing
[4:01:21] and that board goes through changes and
[4:01:24] those changes um the previous boards
[4:01:26] that may have sat there are not dealing
[4:01:28] with what this current board is doing
[4:01:30] and so the amount of work and time not
[4:01:32] just myself but the whole entire board
[4:01:34] has put in to making that organization
[4:01:37] successful has cost an awful lot of my
[4:01:40] family time because I'm doing it outside
[4:01:42] of the scope of my normal dayto-day
[4:01:44] counc.
[4:01:50] » So I guess my question is do we just
[4:01:52] want to table it till after lunch? Do
[4:01:53] you get that information or is council
[4:01:55] prepared to make a motion? You want to
[4:01:57] table it? Is that what you want?
[4:01:59] >> Did lunch arrive?
[4:02:00] » Did lunch arrive?
[4:02:00] >> I think so.
[4:02:01] » I think so.
[4:02:01] >> Okay. Well, we could recess for lunch
[4:02:04] » Okay. Well, we could recess for lunch
[4:02:04] and
[4:02:05] >> and then rather than table it, we could
[4:02:07] » and then rather than table it, we could
[4:02:07] just recess for lunch and then come back
[4:02:09] to it uh
[4:02:12] after lunch.
[4:02:15] That would be appropriate, Mr. Hogan.
[4:02:18] >> Through the chair, I think that would be
[4:02:19] » Through the chair, I think that would be
[4:02:19] that would be recommended.
[4:02:21] >> Okay. All right. So, um, since lunch has
[4:02:25] » Okay. All right. So, um, since lunch has
[4:02:25] arrived, I'm going to say we're in
[4:02:27] recess. Um,
[4:02:29] we do have a delegation at 1. So, what
[4:02:34] do we need? 45 minutes.
[4:02:36] Okay. So,
[4:52:18] Okay, it is uh 12:58 and I know it's
[4:52:22] ahead of when I said we would start, but
[4:52:25] our honored guest is here and so we
[4:52:27] don't want to delay you any longer than
[4:52:29] we have to. So, I'll call our meeting
[4:52:30] back to order. And the next item on our
[4:52:34] agenda is of course to visit with our
[4:52:37] MLA,
[4:52:39] Tara Sawyer. Welcome, Tara. And uh we're
[4:52:43] glad you're able to join us here today.
[4:52:46] And just so you know, we are streaming
[4:52:48] live. And when you're speaking, if you
[4:52:51] would please use the microphone. And I
[4:52:55] don't know if you know everybody. So
[4:52:57] perhaps what we'll do is we'll introduce
[4:52:59] um I know you know a few of us but that
[4:53:02] way you have a better idea who you're
[4:53:05] talking to and there's a few hangers on
[4:53:07] in the room too that maybe you don't
[4:53:09] know as well. So so uh I'm sure you know
[4:53:12] Laura Lee but Laura Lee if you would
[4:53:14] please counselor Cunningham.
[4:53:15] >> So Lori Michelle Cunningham. So I'm
[4:53:17] » So Lori Michelle Cunningham. So I'm
[4:53:17] division five. So I'm an area to the
[4:53:19] east west north and south of Three
[4:53:21] Hills. Thank you for coming. Really
[4:53:23] appreciate it. Afternoon, Tara. I think
[4:53:26] you know who I am.
[4:53:28] >> I've never seen you in my life, Jerry.
[4:53:33] » I've never seen you in my life, Jerry.
[4:53:33] >> Thanks for coming in, Tara. You know who
[4:53:34] » Thanks for coming in, Tara. You know who
[4:53:34] I am.
[4:53:37] >> So, Tara, I'm Ken. Of course, you know
[4:53:39] » So, Tara, I'm Ken. Of course, you know
[4:53:39] that. And was that wishful thinking
[4:53:41] about Jerry having never seen him?
[4:53:45] >> Anyway, welcome here. Thank you.
[4:53:47] » Anyway, welcome here. Thank you.
[4:53:47] >> Great to see you again, Tara. And uh I'm
[4:53:50] » Great to see you again, Tara. And uh I'm
[4:53:50] division one, so we wrap down to the
[4:53:52] drum area. close to Horseshoe Canyon
[4:53:55] into the Rosebud Creek or River I should
[4:53:58] say. Rosebud River.
[4:54:01] >> Hello Carrie Phobes, division 4. So
[4:54:04] » Hello Carrie Phobes, division 4. So
[4:54:04] southwest corner of this county.
[4:54:07] >> Wade Christie from division 6 north. I
[4:54:09] » Wade Christie from division 6 north. I
[4:54:09] grow barley. Do you know that stuff?
[4:54:12] >> I appreciate very much what you did
[4:54:14] » I appreciate very much what you did
[4:54:14] there. So thank you.
[4:54:18] » Afternoon. Mike Hogan, chief
[4:54:19] administrative officer.
[4:54:22] Good afternoon, Tara. Carolyn Vanderl,
[4:54:24] legislative services manager.
[4:54:26] >> Good afternoon, Kevin Ganon, director of
[4:54:28] » Good afternoon, Kevin Ganon, director of
[4:54:28] community services.
[4:54:29] >> Hi, I'm Mike Sir, director of
[4:54:31] » Hi, I'm Mike Sir, director of
[4:54:31] infrastructure.
[4:54:32] >> Trice Cochran, director of corporate
[4:54:33] » Trice Cochran, director of corporate
[4:54:33] services.
[4:54:35] >> Well, good afternoon everyone and thank
[4:54:37] » Well, good afternoon everyone and thank
[4:54:37] you very much for having me. Yes, I know
[4:54:39] some of you and uh I am looking forward
[4:54:41] to getting to know the rest of you a
[4:54:43] little bit better. So, I appreciate you
[4:54:46] giving me a little bit of your time. uh
[4:54:49] obviously new so just trying to get to
[4:54:53] all the counties in my uh writing and
[4:54:56] and get that first touch point as I've
[4:55:00] been saying I even though there is a
[4:55:01] municipal election I still think it's
[4:55:03] important I wasn't waiting until after
[4:55:04] that the people
[4:55:09] this thing I'm used to having to keep my
[4:55:11] finger on it for the Alberta next panel
[4:55:13] so I kept my finger on it then I
[4:55:15] realized I was turning myself off
[4:55:16] apologies
[4:55:18] Um yeah, you know, it's really important
[4:55:21] to hear from you guys. Uh
[4:55:24] this first this first touch point is
[4:55:26] really just a matter of, you know,
[4:55:27] whether we get into I'm not expecting to
[4:55:29] get into anything anything super deep,
[4:55:31] but just to connect with you and hear a
[4:55:34] little bit about what's going on. Not
[4:55:36] that I don't know this county
[4:55:38] considering it is the county I farm in,
[4:55:40] but uh it's at a different level when
[4:55:43] you're you're speaking to to you guys.
[4:55:45] So, I know not all of it will be right
[4:55:47] now, but uh yeah, I I appreciate the
[4:55:51] time that you're all giving me and the
[4:55:53] people here. So, thanks.
[4:55:56] >> Well, and I guess uh from our point of
[4:55:57] » Well, and I guess uh from our point of
[4:55:57] view, we're very appreciative of the
[4:55:59] fact that you wanted to come and meet
[4:56:01] with us and to engage um and to get to
[4:56:05] know us a little better as well as some
[4:56:06] of the issues that are here um and
[4:56:10] important to us. So, that's appreciated
[4:56:13] very much. Thank you.
[4:56:15] So, I don't know how we want to jump in
[4:56:19] um or where we want to start, but I
[4:56:22] think um you probably have heard in
[4:56:25] other counties um in this area similar
[4:56:28] things around issues that are of concern
[4:56:31] to them. And certainly um I think we
[4:56:35] wanted to make sure that we emphasize
[4:56:38] the point around some of the discussion
[4:56:41] and decision making that's going on
[4:56:43] around oil and gas particularly
[4:56:46] um the assessment model review and
[4:56:49] mature asset strategy and how those
[4:56:53] impact us specifically as a rural
[4:56:56] municipality.
[4:56:58] um and the importance of
[4:57:01] those industries to us from a revenue
[4:57:04] point of view. And
[4:57:07] um I guess our point of view is that
[4:57:13] um issues that are existing in the oil
[4:57:16] and gas industry are not necessarily
[4:57:19] solved through
[4:57:21] artificial adjustments in either
[4:57:23] taxation or assessment. and that there
[4:57:26] has to be some long-term solutions. And
[4:57:28] so for us to be able to participate in
[4:57:32] the way that we're requested by the
[4:57:34] province to work with our immediate
[4:57:37] neighbors on things like ICFs and those
[4:57:41] kind of things where there's funding
[4:57:42] agreements that cross our boundaries,
[4:57:45] the revenues that are generated through
[4:57:48] our partnerships with those industries
[4:57:51] are very very important to us. And so,
[4:57:54] um, I guess I'm sure you've heard it.
[4:57:58] Um, so we very much would appreciate it
[4:58:01] being represented,
[4:58:04] um, and understood from the point of
[4:58:06] view of where we live every day. And
[4:58:10] since you live in Neil County,
[4:58:13] the direct impacts on you from a
[4:58:15] taxation point of view um
[4:58:19] will be felt as those revenues are
[4:58:21] reduced through whatever initiatives the
[4:58:24] province takes. And so I think that's
[4:58:29] that's where we might want to just start
[4:58:32] with. And uh I think I was asked by
[4:58:36] several of my counselors to you know
[4:58:39] make sure that we got that one on the
[4:58:42] table first but I know there are some
[4:58:43] other
[4:58:45] little issues that perhaps somebody else
[4:58:48] would like to annunciate whether it's
[4:58:50] you deputy reev or but we we have things
[4:58:54] that are important to us and I know the
[4:58:57] province has things that's very
[4:58:58] important to them and um as they reduce
[4:59:03] the amount of funds that they transfer
[4:59:05] to us or as they increase the ask for us
[4:59:08] on things like policing and other
[4:59:11] initiatives like that. Those revenues
[4:59:13] have to come from somewhere.
[4:59:16] And so a balanced approach is kind of
[4:59:19] what we're requesting and asking for and
[4:59:21] then a consultive approach where we feel
[4:59:24] that our voices are more
[4:59:28] more well heard um and perhaps respected
[4:59:32] more at that table than we currently
[4:59:35] feel.
[4:59:38] So I know you're all brand new to all of
[4:59:40] this.
[4:59:43] >> Just a little
[4:59:46] » Just a little
[4:59:46] Sorry, I am taking notes. I'm not
[4:59:48] texting people. I realize I my rush to
[4:59:51] get in in here on time. I left my
[4:59:53] notebook in my my in my car, so I'm
[4:59:55] taking my notes on my phone.
[4:59:57] >> Okay.
[4:59:59] » Okay.
[4:59:59] >> So, um I don't know. Um
[5:00:04] » So, um I don't know. Um
[5:00:04] I guess I don't want to be the only one
[5:00:06] speaking to you. So, I think it's
[5:00:08] important that you get a feel for our
[5:00:10] whole council, not just me trying to
[5:00:13] represent their voices. Um, the only
[5:00:18] the only other one that maybe I'll put
[5:00:20] on the table before I turn it loose to
[5:00:22] everybody else is just the whole and you
[5:00:26] and I have had this conversation
[5:00:28] previously um where we chatted a little
[5:00:30] bit about the Badlands Motorsports
[5:00:33] Initiative and um our application on the
[5:00:38] STIP grant side of things for funding
[5:00:40] there. And
[5:00:43] my encouragement to you at the time was
[5:00:46] to be supportive of our application if
[5:00:48] and when it came through. So, um I guess
[5:00:51] I'll put that out there. Badlands might
[5:00:54] be not that popular everywhere, but
[5:00:57] certainly from a kneehill county point
[5:00:59] of view in revenue and economic
[5:01:02] development, which the province seems to
[5:01:04] feel is really important, um we feel the
[5:01:08] same way. And so when we look at the
[5:01:11] area of Drumheller and Horseshoe Canyon
[5:01:14] and are thinking about what we might do
[5:01:16] as far as tourism and economic
[5:01:19] development in that area, Badlands
[5:01:22] Motors is not necessarily key to what
[5:01:24] might happen there, but it is a big
[5:01:26] piece of what might happen. And so just
[5:01:29] an encouragement to
[5:01:32] think about the people here at home and
[5:01:35] how that might impact us going forward.
[5:01:39] And I know there's it's not the most
[5:01:41] popular development everywhere
[5:01:44] um within your writing, but it's
[5:01:46] certainly very important at this table
[5:01:50] and for this municipality. So
[5:01:54] >> yeah, I might have heard a little bit
[5:01:56] » yeah, I might have heard a little bit
[5:01:56] about that one.
[5:01:58] >> A lot.
[5:01:59] » A lot.
[5:02:00] >> Well, if you ever if you've ever been
[5:02:01] » Well, if you ever if you've ever been
[5:02:01] near Rosebud, I'm sure you've heard
[5:02:03] about it, but
[5:02:04] >> Yeah. No, I've Yeah, I've I've been down
[5:02:06] » Yeah. No, I've Yeah, I've I've been down
[5:02:06] there.
[5:02:07] >> Yeah. couple times. So,
[5:02:13] like I said, it is we're we're early
[5:02:14] days, so it's just nice to hear
[5:02:17] a few of the high points, and we'll
[5:02:19] delve into them deeper.
[5:02:22] >> Yeah.
[5:02:22] » Yeah.
[5:02:22] >> Later, but yeah, I appreciate that.
[5:02:26] » Later, but yeah, I appreciate that.
[5:02:26] >> So,
[5:02:27] » So,
[5:02:27] >> you're definitely not the first to talk
[5:02:28] » you're definitely not the first to talk
[5:02:28] about funding, obviously. Yeah, I mean
[5:02:31] >> I do want to give you opportunity to
[5:02:34] » I do want to give you opportunity to
[5:02:34] talk to us about your own goals, but I
[5:02:36] wanted to give council here a chance to
[5:02:38] kind of just give you some of the
[5:02:40] highlights from our point of view. And
[5:02:41] then I really would like to hear kind of
[5:02:44] your thoughts in terms of how you want
[5:02:46] to represent the writing as a whole and
[5:02:49] what your goals for yourself as as our
[5:02:51] new MLA might be.
[5:02:53] But um I know Deputy Re McGee you want
[5:02:57] to
[5:02:59] so I'll give you the floor.
[5:03:00] >> Thank you. Um there are so many things
[5:03:03] » Thank you. Um there are so many things
[5:03:03] I'd love to share with you, but of
[5:03:04] course I'll have to pick a priority or
[5:03:06] you'll have to be here all day.
[5:03:09] But uh for what's really close to my
[5:03:11] heart is the FCSS program in our area. I
[5:03:15] uh I really uh think it'd be worth your
[5:03:18] while to have a visit before our
[5:03:21] director retires at the end of the
[5:03:23] September.
[5:03:24] >> End of September.
[5:03:25] » End of September.
[5:03:25] >> End of September. Um
[5:03:28] » End of September. Um
[5:03:28] the wealth of knowledge and experience
[5:03:31] that Shelley Jackson has is immense as
[5:03:35] far as the provincial criter.
[5:03:39] She's seen how FCS has grown over the
[5:03:41] years and the unique way that she has
[5:03:44] managed that component in our area is
[5:03:48] quite unique and very very successful. I
[5:03:51] feel very passionate about that because
[5:03:53] I I really struggle when um our
[5:03:56] government is very strong about wanting
[5:03:58] to increase our economic future and we
[5:04:02] are seeing more and more money being
[5:04:04] spent on
[5:04:06] uh crisis problems with our humanity.
[5:04:08] Whether it be drug use, homelessness,
[5:04:12] um the way our hospitals are overused,
[5:04:14] those types of things, those are all
[5:04:16] results of foundational things not being
[5:04:19] cared for. And I think we'd save a pile
[5:04:22] of money if we remembered these great
[5:04:24] assets we have right in our communities
[5:04:26] such as the FCSS program and what
[5:04:29] they've done. So for example um they
[5:04:32] have a great report. They have said that
[5:04:35] they um survey through their surveys
[5:04:38] they found 4,280
[5:04:40] people have benefited from the programs
[5:04:42] they provided in our office alone. When
[5:04:44] you think that our population base is
[5:04:46] just over 10,000, that's a remarkable
[5:04:48] stat with very little money put into it.
[5:04:51] And I think the outcome of the long term
[5:04:54] of that is really worth researching and
[5:04:56] being well educated on. I think that's
[5:04:59] the way going forward to see that we
[5:05:00] have kids ready to go into the trades
[5:05:03] who want to live here. um and to reduce
[5:05:06] the cost we're paying on these huge
[5:05:08] crisises because I don't think it's a
[5:05:09] coincidence that when the province has
[5:05:13] limited the amount of money to
[5:05:16] education, social programming, those
[5:05:17] types of things for our children and
[5:05:19] youth that these crisises in incremental
[5:05:23] time directly from that has increased
[5:05:25] and increased. That's not a coincidence
[5:05:27] in my value system. I think that's
[5:05:29] directly correlated and um I just
[5:05:32] encourage you to to be educated on how
[5:05:34] we can keep that community component
[5:05:37] because they're about community being
[5:05:40] the people who make our people great and
[5:05:42] uh that's that's my priority today.
[5:05:49] » I think you can tell she has some
[5:05:51] investment there
[5:05:53] and so I
[5:05:55] >> I like the passion. Yeah, I appreciate
[5:05:57] » I like the passion. Yeah, I appreciate
[5:05:58] that. Yeah. Um,
[5:06:01] anyone else? I know. Um, go ahead,
[5:06:06] Councelor Witto.
[5:06:09] It's all right if I call you Tara.
[5:06:12] >> I think it's okay. It's
[5:06:13] » I think it's okay. It's
[5:06:13] >> okay. Okay, Tara. I've been here a
[5:06:16] » okay. Okay, Tara. I've been here a
[5:06:16] while. I've seen the booms that we've
[5:06:20] had in this county and in this province.
[5:06:25] And I'm not saying we're in a bust
[5:06:26] situation,
[5:06:28] but we are headed downhill big time
[5:06:30] because of downloading from the
[5:06:31] provincial side.
[5:06:33] I mean, it started
[5:06:36] started a while ago.
[5:06:38] I know I was at a meeting on the 19th of
[5:06:40] or 2nd of July, 2019
[5:06:44] when we met with 15 other shallow gas
[5:06:46] well municipal
[5:06:48] uh municipalities.
[5:06:51] And that day we lost 1.8 8 or$ 1.9
[5:06:55] million
[5:06:56] because of the change in the assessment
[5:06:58] on shallow gas wells. Like I'm not
[5:07:01] saying that it was wrong, but to do it
[5:07:04] in one day without a heads up that I see
[5:07:09] that as being complete downloading.
[5:07:11] There's been a number of things um like
[5:07:14] the policing that have been downloaded
[5:07:16] upon us. And whether that's right or
[5:07:19] wrong, I I'm not here to argue whether
[5:07:21] it's right or wrong. Uh, but from what I
[5:07:24] gather,
[5:07:26] one of the issues there was is more
[5:07:28] boots on the ground. And the last time
[5:07:30] we had the RCMP in here, because we have
[5:07:34] five different jurisdictions of RCMP
[5:07:37] that that actually provides service to
[5:07:40] Nehill County. Not one of them got an
[5:07:43] extra boot on the ground, but we got to
[5:07:46] pay $489,000
[5:07:50] for this for policing.
[5:07:54] So, that's another thing that I see is
[5:07:56] downloading. And now we've got the
[5:07:58] assessment model review. I think that's
[5:08:01] supposed to close up on the in 28. Am I
[5:08:04] correct on that, Mike? Someplace in
[5:08:06] there.
[5:08:08] And we've got the mature assets strategy
[5:08:11] coming forward.
[5:08:13] Uh MSI turned into LGFF
[5:08:17] which was also
[5:08:20] a bit of a download or not a download a
[5:08:23] short shortage of funding. I mean, I
[5:08:26] know everybody needs money and I know
[5:08:28] everybody's clamoring for money, but
[5:08:31] when you keep losing funding, someplace
[5:08:33] along the line, you have to figure out a
[5:08:36] way to
[5:08:40] increase your revenue. What we've done
[5:08:42] over the last few years is yes, we've
[5:08:45] increased the farmland tax, we've
[5:08:47] increased the residential tax, but when
[5:08:50] we look at the kind of money that we
[5:08:52] lose every time there's some sort of a
[5:08:55] adjustment at the provincial level, it
[5:08:58] takes a lot of extra money from our
[5:09:02] residents to make up the difference.
[5:09:04] Like I believe
[5:09:06] we basically collect
[5:09:09] 17 17 million from linear
[5:09:14] 16 or 17
[5:09:16] but we collect 2 million from farmland
[5:09:19] tax and 2 million from residential tax
[5:09:22] within the county. So yeah, it is out of
[5:09:26] out of out of balance, but if we lose 2
[5:09:30] million on the linear side,
[5:09:34] that doubles the taxes on residential or
[5:09:36] farmland to make up the difference.
[5:09:40] And so we have to come up with different
[5:09:42] ways of trying to either not get stung
[5:09:47] that way or to get revenue from some
[5:09:50] other way.
[5:09:52] So It's really difficult to sit in this
[5:09:56] seat and raise taxes on farmland and
[5:09:59] residential for a person like you that
[5:10:01] lives in actually my division in the
[5:10:04] county.
[5:10:06] And I think you've probably seen what's
[5:10:08] been going on with the taxes there. I
[5:10:10] don't think they're exorbitant because
[5:10:12] we do provide services and you know it's
[5:10:15] going to get to the point where services
[5:10:18] are going to have to be cut or there's
[5:10:20] going to have to be something else done.
[5:10:23] And I don't know.
[5:10:26] I don't know. It it it's just making it
[5:10:28] more and more difficult every time
[5:10:30] there's a change at the provincial. And
[5:10:32] I'm not blaming you or the provincial
[5:10:35] government that's there right now. I'm
[5:10:37] just saying like from it. The trend has
[5:10:40] been happening for a long time and it
[5:10:43] doesn't seem to be changing.
[5:10:46] So
[5:10:48] I think anytime we can get some revenue
[5:10:51] from industry or
[5:10:55] it's hard to get revenue from tourism if
[5:10:57] you don't actually sell anything but on
[5:11:00] the indust or on the residential side it
[5:11:04] would be nice to have something or
[5:11:06] industrial side something that we can
[5:11:08] actually
[5:11:10] make up some of the revenue losses that
[5:11:12] we've had. I and I'm sorry I don't want
[5:11:14] to sit here and complain. Well, I guess
[5:11:16] I am sitting here and complaining,
[5:11:19] but when we're doing the ICFs, which is,
[5:11:21] you know, yes, we the recreation,
[5:11:25] there's a lot of recreation that goes on
[5:11:27] in the towns and villages, we support
[5:11:29] that because our residents do use that.
[5:11:32] Whether it be the swimming pool, curling
[5:11:33] rink, whatever, skating rinks, our
[5:11:36] residents do use it and we try to
[5:11:39] support it through the ICF negotiations.
[5:11:42] But as we lose revenue on our side,
[5:11:46] we're not going to have
[5:11:49] revenue to share with the towns and
[5:11:51] villages within our municipality to help
[5:11:54] support their recreation stuff. And we
[5:11:58] do a lot on fire. We do a lot on uh
[5:12:02] different things like we we we partner
[5:12:05] on a lot of stuff just because it's got
[5:12:07] to be efficient.
[5:12:09] But the efficiency also comes with a
[5:12:12] cost and if you're losing funds it makes
[5:12:17] it more difficult not just for the
[5:12:19] county but for the towns and villages
[5:12:21] that are within the county and I know
[5:12:24] you probably understand all this stuff
[5:12:25] and there is a different perspective at
[5:12:27] the provincial level than there is at
[5:12:28] the municipal level but I'm not saying
[5:12:32] we're dying but we keep going this way
[5:12:35] it's not going to be pretty
[5:12:38] so
[5:12:39] I guess that's my two bits
[5:12:43] No passion there either.
[5:12:47] >> Uh yeah. No. Um I appreciate
[5:12:52] » Uh yeah. No. Um I appreciate
[5:12:52] I Well, yeah, I know what you're saying
[5:12:54] there. So
[5:12:57] >> it it it is it is um I I the one thing I
[5:13:00] » it it it is it is um I I the one thing I
[5:13:00] will say with respect to to the policing
[5:13:02] and it's a little off off but
[5:13:06] it does directly tie into one of the
[5:13:09] questions the Alberta X panel is having
[5:13:11] right and I think that's one of the main
[5:13:14] things conversation pieces around that
[5:13:18] that has started being put out is
[5:13:20] understanding what we're paying for or
[5:13:24] CMP, but we're not getting the full
[5:13:26] roster across the province. That's why
[5:13:28] that's one of those discussions, just as
[5:13:29] a side piece, right? Or where that
[5:13:32] funding could be going if we went to a
[5:13:34] different model if we if we did.
[5:13:37] >> Well, don't get me wrong. I'm not
[5:13:38] » Well, don't get me wrong. I'm not
[5:13:38] complaining about the policing. I think
[5:13:40] the police are doing a fantastic job
[5:13:42] with the resources they have.
[5:13:43] >> The problem is they don't have enough
[5:13:45] » The problem is they don't have enough
[5:13:45] resources. We're very well aware of
[5:13:46] that.
[5:13:48] That's a problem.
[5:13:49] >> Yeah. But they are doing well with what
[5:13:51] » Yeah. But they are doing well with what
[5:13:51] they've got. And to be quite honest,
[5:13:53] when they've put together some of these
[5:13:55] uh whatever you want to call them where
[5:13:58] they actually talked to one another.
[5:14:01] That worked out fantastic because a
[5:14:03] detachment knew who the who the problem
[5:14:05] was, but that problem traveled around
[5:14:08] the whole county. Soon as they shared
[5:14:10] that information,
[5:14:12] >> it worked. So collaboration, I guess,
[5:14:15] » it worked. So collaboration, I guess,
[5:14:15] between the RCMPs did make a heck of a
[5:14:18] difference. But as far as the response
[5:14:21] time to your house probably hasn't
[5:14:23] changed after the 489,000
[5:14:27] it's it's non-existent. They won't come
[5:14:28] out. They just say there's by the time
[5:14:31] they get there's no point and that's a
[5:14:32] problem and it's not a reflection of the
[5:14:35] officers. It's never a reflection of the
[5:14:37] officers anyways. Yeah.
[5:14:41] >> Sorry for
[5:14:42] » Sorry for
[5:14:42] >> No, I mean don't apologize. the point
[5:14:45] » No, I mean don't apologize. the point
[5:14:45] point of me being here is is to have a
[5:14:49] frank conversation of of what you're
[5:14:52] seeing and you know obviously I'm not
[5:14:54] having you're not getting any answers
[5:14:56] for me today and you're well aware of
[5:14:57] that but it's it's it's that awareness
[5:14:59] piece first. It's the first of many
[5:15:02] conversations right?
[5:15:03] >> Yeah.
[5:15:04] » Yeah.
[5:15:04] >> Yeah.
[5:15:05] » Yeah.
[5:15:05] >> Um so yeah
[5:15:08] » Um so yeah
[5:15:08] >> go ahead councelor Cunningham please.
[5:15:10] » go ahead councelor Cunningham please.
[5:15:10] They're always nervous when they get me
[5:15:12] talking provincial or federal politics
[5:15:14] or issues.
[5:15:14] >> I'm saying provincial too.
[5:15:16] » I'm saying provincial too.
[5:15:16] >> Well, no, for sure. But but in saying
[5:15:17] » Well, no, for sure. But but in saying
[5:15:17] that, I want to just acknowledge that I
[5:15:20] understand the downloading from the
[5:15:22] province to the municipalities, you
[5:15:23] folks as a province are also facing
[5:15:25] downloading from the federal government.
[5:15:26] So there's, you know, there's an effect
[5:15:28] across the board. So even though we are
[5:15:30] talking provincial, federal is always
[5:15:31] going to enter into it as well. But
[5:15:32] anyhow, um, couple quick things. Um it
[5:15:35] was really awesome this summer that
[5:15:36] yourself and Minister Williams who's the
[5:15:38] Minister of Municipal Affairs um stopped
[5:15:40] in to have a visit with us. Um one thing
[5:15:42] that I what I'm hearing from some
[5:15:44] colleagues across the province is Bill
[5:15:46] 50 which received relent in May of of
[5:15:49] this year uh which is changing a lot of
[5:15:51] the way that municipalities do their
[5:15:53] business and especially code of conduct.
[5:15:55] Like my understanding is our code of
[5:15:56] conduct that's currently on the wall is
[5:15:58] actually redundant now. So, um, little
[5:16:00] bit of, um, interest from me as to where
[5:16:04] the province is going to go with that.
[5:16:06] We're kind of sitting in a little bit of
[5:16:07] never neverland, it appears. Um, I did
[5:16:10] hear that there was maybe going to be an
[5:16:12] integrity minister that would be hired
[5:16:13] to kind of deal with some of those code
[5:16:15] of conduct issues, but it kind of feels
[5:16:18] like the code of conduct's been taken
[5:16:19] away and we're there hasn't been
[5:16:20] anything been replaced yet to my
[5:16:22] understanding. So, I really hope and I
[5:16:24] think we mentioned it to Minister
[5:16:26] Williams that day is um all of us with
[5:16:28] rural municipalities will be in Edmonton
[5:16:30] November. Those of us that are sitting
[5:16:31] around the table, I really hope there's
[5:16:33] some clarity around that. Um we are
[5:16:35] currently working on a governance model
[5:16:37] at Nihill County and I have a little bit
[5:16:39] of frustration with it because it's hard
[5:16:41] to tailor that if the province is going
[5:16:44] to come and change some of the ways we
[5:16:46] do our business. So, so yeah, just
[5:16:49] really hoping that that sooner rather
[5:16:51] than later there's some clarity around
[5:16:52] that bill that was passed in May. Um,
[5:16:54] we've had some really great
[5:16:56] conversations. I think Minister Nudorf
[5:16:58] um hides when I get up at RMA. Um, but
[5:17:00] we do we've had some excellent
[5:17:02] conversations about the AU and municipal
[5:17:04] involvement within the AU. I think we've
[5:17:06] made huge inroads in the past four years
[5:17:09] and um I really do appreciate the work
[5:17:11] that he's done. not to speak for the
[5:17:14] rest of council, but what we were really
[5:17:15] looking forward, what we're really
[5:17:17] looking for was to have a seat at that
[5:17:19] table um and be have our concerns around
[5:17:23] municipalities listened to. And I kind
[5:17:24] of liken it to my husband, not just
[5:17:26] listen, but hear what I'm saying. So,
[5:17:29] we're hoping um and I know I I've pulled
[5:17:31] up two letters that we've received from
[5:17:32] from Minister Nudorf in the last two
[5:17:34] years. when he spoke at RMA he said
[5:17:37] there was um directives that they have
[5:17:39] given the AU but unfortunately the AUC
[5:17:41] is at that time could have changed was
[5:17:44] not following through. So I believe
[5:17:46] there was a legislative piece that was
[5:17:47] going to come forward and I'm not really
[5:17:48] sure where that's sitting. So I would
[5:17:50] really love an update from from Minister
[5:17:53] Nudorf and his ministry as to where
[5:17:55] that's all sitting. So that's an
[5:17:58] economic withholding. We talked about it
[5:18:00] this morning and um yeah, it's still an
[5:18:04] issue. I think that I see Minister
[5:18:05] Nudorf put out some little press
[5:18:07] releases every once in a while. So, lots
[5:18:09] of work to be done there, but we just
[5:18:10] really like some clarity on where where
[5:18:11] that all sits. I know the AU was
[5:18:13] changing rule 007 and just would like to
[5:18:17] know where a lot of that stands. So, and
[5:18:19] one more quickly for me. Um, we're doing
[5:18:21] a lot of conversations about a potential
[5:18:23] building um pavilion site at Horseshoe
[5:18:25] Canyon. And I would really love the
[5:18:28] province to um to come out. I'd like to
[5:18:31] extend an invitation and have the
[5:18:32] province come out and tour. We are being
[5:18:34] told there's there's a lot of interest
[5:18:36] in tourism in the province of Alberta.
[5:18:38] So, um would love the province to come
[5:18:40] out and have a have a tour of of
[5:18:42] Horseshoe Canyon and and the area and uh
[5:18:44] any money that they would like to give
[5:18:46] to Nihill County for development there
[5:18:48] would be welcomed. That's it for me.
[5:18:51] That was quick, right?
[5:18:57] » Sure. Council Per,
[5:19:00] it's fine. It's all good. Mine's just
[5:19:02] going to be short. Um and as you're well
[5:19:04] aware, Terra, we're we are a rural
[5:19:06] municipality. So any framework, formulas
[5:19:09] or whatever that are out there for
[5:19:12] funding to all kinds of things, what
[5:19:15] works in the city, what works along the
[5:19:17] number two, west of the number two does
[5:19:18] not work out here in the east. And you
[5:19:21] are going to be our front line as to say
[5:19:23] or our voice in Edmonton. Um to really
[5:19:27] drive that home like what works like I
[5:19:30] said to the west of us and in the cities
[5:19:33] does not work out here for the most
[5:19:34] part. Sure.
[5:19:39] Councelor Christie,
[5:19:40] >> I appreciate all everything everybody
[5:19:42] » I appreciate all everything everybody
[5:19:42] said about Horseshoe Canyon and Badland
[5:19:44] Motorsports partly with Drumheller.
[5:19:47] Instead of an attraction, we need need
[5:19:49] to make it a destination to help move
[5:19:51] tourism out of the foot foothills and
[5:19:53] mountains out to rural Alberta. The
[5:19:55] other thing that I'm watching very
[5:19:57] closely with community futures is with
[5:20:00] um the Havlin going into Strathmore.
[5:20:03] They keep telling us about up to 200
[5:20:05] spin-off industries. We need to figure
[5:20:07] out how to be part of that as as a
[5:20:09] county.
[5:20:10] >> So, what we need your ear to the ground
[5:20:12] » So, what we need your ear to the ground
[5:20:12] to give us some guidance to what we can
[5:20:14] do to move some of that north
[5:20:17] and I appreciate we're not Highway 2.
[5:20:19] Sometimes that's a good thing.
[5:20:24] » Sure. Councelor post.
[5:20:25] >> Excellent. All really great points
[5:20:28] » Excellent. All really great points
[5:20:28] everyone. Uh, what role do you see
[5:20:30] municipal government shaping provincial
[5:20:32] policies with issues like land use,
[5:20:34] recreation, economic dis
[5:20:36] diversification?
[5:20:40] » You're going to have to speak clear
[5:20:42] because you kind of said it fast and
[5:20:43] quiet and mumbly. Sorry. So,
[5:20:45] >> that's all good. What role do you see
[5:20:47] » that's all good. What role do you see
[5:20:47] municipal government shaping provincial
[5:20:49] policies with issues like land use,
[5:20:51] recreation, and economic
[5:20:52] diversification?
[5:20:57] Well,
[5:20:57] >> those were my questions from people
[5:20:59] » those were my questions from people
[5:20:59] because they knew she was coming.
[5:21:02] >> Yeah,
[5:21:06] » I don't expect an answer, but just the
[5:21:08] thought that this is what's been Sorry.
[5:21:10] Just a thought that this is what's been
[5:21:11] portrayed to me by the people that knew
[5:21:13] you were coming today that I represent.
[5:21:14] Yeah, I think it would be better to have
[5:21:16] that convers conversation with them with
[5:21:18] a better context or where they're coming
[5:21:19] from that when you talk about land use
[5:21:22] and what their actual specific concern
[5:21:23] is to give a proper answer to be frank.
[5:21:25] >> Uh, sure. And one of the concerns would
[5:21:27] » Uh, sure. And one of the concerns would
[5:21:27] be around the AU and how the downloading
[5:21:29] happens and we don't have a choice
[5:21:31] because it's considered public interest.
[5:21:33] >> Right.
[5:21:35] » Right.
[5:21:35] And and some of that, you know, some of
[5:21:38] that is just going to be better
[5:21:39] answered. Um, I'm not going to be able
[5:21:42] to answer it for you today.
[5:21:43] >> That's fine. And uh some of that also
[5:21:45] » That's fine. And uh some of that also
[5:21:45] relates to the minister who it applies
[5:21:47] to more, right? And they're looking for
[5:21:49] my stance. But again, those kind of that
[5:21:53] level of of of question is is more of to
[5:21:57] have with them to get a better context
[5:21:58] and I can give a better answer that's
[5:22:00] not going to get it here today at a
[5:22:01] council meeting because that's not
[5:22:03] really uh that that's not really the
[5:22:06] point of today's is today was more of me
[5:22:08] wanting to talk to to the counselors
[5:22:10] with what's going on in the county, not
[5:22:12] so much um
[5:22:15] that. Yeah.
[5:22:16] >> Perfect. Thank you. Yeah. So
[5:22:18] » Perfect. Thank you. Yeah. So
[5:22:18] >> I guess you know Tara and I I totally
[5:22:23] » I guess you know Tara and I I totally
[5:22:23] get where you're coming from and what
[5:22:24] you're hearing is is there are issues
[5:22:26] from our point of view around land use
[5:22:30] management and municipal input on the
[5:22:33] decisions that are being made at a much
[5:22:34] higher level than what we have
[5:22:37] >> and concerns around um things that are
[5:22:41] » and concerns around um things that are
[5:22:41] happening at a AU and beyond. Um,
[5:22:45] >> and and I will say if I could just
[5:22:47] » and and I will say if I could just
[5:22:47] interject, although I know what some of
[5:22:48] these are, I need everyone to stop using
[5:22:50] acronyms all the time because um
[5:22:53] >> I'm still learning. So you're all and so
[5:22:55] » I'm still learning. So you're all and so
[5:22:55] you might use it all the time. The
[5:22:57] acronyms I'm used to are in the egg
[5:23:00] field. So you guys are throwing this out
[5:23:02] and I'm just I should have said that at
[5:23:03] the start. I mean, I actually know what
[5:23:05] some of them are, but you but you're
[5:23:06] only talking in acronyms because that's
[5:23:08] what you're used to doing. It just it's
[5:23:11] uh it it's always best practice start
[5:23:13] with saying the full title before you
[5:23:14] use the acronym. Then we all know
[5:23:16] because there are gazillion acronyms out
[5:23:18] there as well.
[5:23:19] >> Okay.
[5:23:19] » Okay.
[5:23:19] >> And so I know when we're using which
[5:23:21] » And so I know when we're using which
[5:23:21] ones we're using best
[5:23:22] >> stand corrected. Thank you.
[5:23:23] » stand corrected. Thank you.
[5:23:23] >> Just as a
[5:23:25] » Just as a
[5:23:25] >> So when I say ABC, does that mean
[5:23:26] » So when I say ABC, does that mean
[5:23:26] Alberta Barley Commission or is that
[5:23:28] what my granddaughter's learning?
[5:23:30] >> Well, yeah, that Well, it's not we're
[5:23:32] » Well, yeah, that Well, it's not we're
[5:23:32] not they aren't ABC anymore, so I'm no
[5:23:34] longer confused on that one.
[5:23:36] often there's an acronym for three
[5:23:38] different things have the same acronym,
[5:23:40] right? So, um,
[5:23:42] >> so the ones we're particularly
[5:23:43] » so the ones we're particularly
[5:23:43] interested in and affected by would be
[5:23:45] the Alberta Utilities Commission and
[5:23:48] Alberta Energy Regulator and the impacts
[5:23:50] that they have on our everyday life.
[5:23:52] Yeah,
[5:23:52] >> I think we're pretty for the most part
[5:23:55] » I think we're pretty for the most part
[5:23:55] pretty satisfied with which um with some
[5:23:58] of the other organizations and what
[5:24:00] they're doing, but those two in
[5:24:02] particular
[5:24:03] >> and what appears from our point of view
[5:24:06] » and what appears from our point of view
[5:24:06] to be unrestrained ability to impact
[5:24:09] what happens within our municipality
[5:24:12] and what seems to be at times to us
[5:24:16] anyway, their ability to ignore
[5:24:20] government directive
[5:24:22] I've heard that um
[5:24:24] >> because they're quasi judicial um they
[5:24:27] » because they're quasi judicial um they
[5:24:27] seem to have certain amount of
[5:24:30] flexibility that nobody else has in
[5:24:33] spite of what the provincial government
[5:24:35] or others might request or ask and so it
[5:24:38] is a big concern to us.
[5:24:40] >> Um so I mean we put a lot on your plate.
[5:24:44] » Um so I mean we put a lot on your plate.
[5:24:44] We've talked about you know in Nehill
[5:24:47] County we need economic development. We
[5:24:49] need um the provincial government's help
[5:24:53] to uh expand what's happening within
[5:24:57] here. But we need that help from two
[5:24:59] points of view. One is on the taxation
[5:25:01] side and the revenue side which is
[5:25:03] affected by
[5:25:05] um assessment model review and the
[5:25:07] mature asset strategy for sure. Um but
[5:25:10] also um it also we need their help from
[5:25:15] the point of view of um
[5:25:18] was annunciated by councelor Christie
[5:25:20] helping us formulate a plan and and
[5:25:23] perhaps have grant money in place to
[5:25:25] move those plans forward. And so when
[5:25:28] Alberta Tourism or some government
[5:25:32] department comes and says we have a plan
[5:25:35] and you're part of our plan, we say we'd
[5:25:38] love to be part of the plan, but we also
[5:25:40] would love to have some money to make
[5:25:42] that happen. Right? And so you see what
[5:25:44] I'm saying, right? So we've talked about
[5:25:46] those things. Um certainly we're
[5:25:48] interested in what's happening in the
[5:25:50] horseshoe Canyon Badlands Motorsports
[5:25:52] area, but also throughout our county. We
[5:25:54] want to see that economic development
[5:25:56] take place. They talked about the human
[5:25:59] resource side of things and the impacts
[5:26:02] that our FCSS program has. We have a
[5:26:05] very unique partnership here between
[5:26:07] Golden Hills and um the six
[5:26:11] municipalities make up our FCSS program
[5:26:14] here. And it's is uniquely focused uh
[5:26:18] here and so
[5:26:21] just want you to be aware of that. Um
[5:26:24] certainly the impacts on
[5:26:26] governmentmandated
[5:26:28] agreements like ICFs and how that
[5:26:30] impacts our bottom line. We needed you
[5:26:32] to be aware of that. And then we're
[5:26:34] always concerned about how we operate
[5:26:36] together as a council. And one of the
[5:26:40] tools that we saw as being quite useful
[5:26:43] was our course our code of conduct. the
[5:26:46] expectation on how we would interact and
[5:26:48] how we would behave towards not only
[5:26:51] each other but also administration and
[5:26:54] the staff that work for us every day.
[5:26:56] >> Oh, for sure.
[5:26:57] » Oh, for sure.
[5:26:57] >> So, um I think those that covers pretty
[5:27:00] » So, um I think those that covers pretty
[5:27:00] much the things that we had on the
[5:27:03] table. What I'd really like to hear is
[5:27:06] kind of what your thoughts are like.
[5:27:07] Where would you like to see things? Um
[5:27:10] kind of what your plans are for as our
[5:27:13] representative for this area. What would
[5:27:15] you like to um what are your goals?
[5:27:19] >> Well, I mean at at this point my my goal
[5:27:23] » Well, I mean at at this point my my goal
[5:27:23] in general first of all and and it is
[5:27:25] going to be for this next little while
[5:27:27] is immersing myself in the constituency
[5:27:31] meeting with everyone to find out
[5:27:32] actually what their full on on concerns.
[5:27:35] My my because my my focus is to be able
[5:27:37] to represent the full constituency up in
[5:27:41] Edmonton. Obviously I feel very
[5:27:43] passionate about and understanding the
[5:27:46] differences that a rural community has
[5:27:48] is not the same as urban. So um that is
[5:27:52] that is my objective. I mean it's it's
[5:27:55] how I it's how I see things anyways. So
[5:27:58] to be able to bring that conversation
[5:28:01] um up with with caucus and my and my
[5:28:04] colleagues when it when it comes up.
[5:28:06] Obviously, as a new MLA, it is I I'm in
[5:28:09] a learning curve mode for a little
[5:28:12] while. So, quite frankly, this this next
[5:28:14] year, my I I'm my one year I'm on a
[5:28:16] one-year goal with that of in this first
[5:28:19] year of really getting a clear
[5:28:21] understanding. And so that's why as I've
[5:28:23] been meeting since I got in, I've been
[5:28:26] meeting with people as quite regularly
[5:28:30] like the calendar gets more and more
[5:28:32] full each week as more and more people
[5:28:34] because I keep giving the same ask to
[5:28:36] every whether I'm meeting with a village
[5:28:39] council or starting to meet with county
[5:28:41] and I'll be meeting with school board as
[5:28:43] well of
[5:28:45] I can't attend if you don't call a
[5:28:47] meeting like I'm looking I'm looking for
[5:28:50] that reach out to my office um to
[5:28:53] connect me with all of the organizations
[5:28:56] or you know to start having those
[5:28:57] meetings. That's my and I'm trying to
[5:29:00] cram them in before we sit at the end of
[5:29:02] October as a starting point.
[5:29:05] >> Um and then I'll be able to make you
[5:29:08] » Um and then I'll be able to make you
[5:29:08] know better better goals of what I can
[5:29:11] do to help and where I can help. Right?
[5:29:14] So, um, that's that's my short short
[5:29:18] answer of of where I am because of
[5:29:21] course
[5:29:23] it's a very large writing and depending
[5:29:25] where I am, they all have very very
[5:29:27] different needs. So, it's assessing
[5:29:30] those needs, learning about them so that
[5:29:32] I can then um, better figure out because
[5:29:35] there the reality is there are limited
[5:29:37] resources. Of course, everyone I can't
[5:29:40] everyone's not going to get the funding
[5:29:41] they need when they at at when they need
[5:29:44] it. And and uh you know, I'm starting to
[5:29:48] to get to know my colleagues. I'm still
[5:29:50] in that phase as well. Um you know, our
[5:29:52] first caucus retreat is in a week.
[5:29:55] There's some I have not yet had a chance
[5:29:56] to meet. So, um figuring out what
[5:30:00] they're doing with their files, right?
[5:30:02] That's it's it's that's okay. It's
[5:30:06] everyone is new at some point. So, am I
[5:30:08] drinking from a fire hose happily? You
[5:30:10] know, but at the end of the day, my goal
[5:30:12] is um
[5:30:15] what can I do to make a like for our
[5:30:18] area to be stronger and to be heard and
[5:30:21] trying because we've got an aging
[5:30:23] population. So, I know the constraints
[5:30:25] we have when it comes to our se senior
[5:30:27] housing issues, right? But, um yeah,
[5:30:31] there's a lot on the plate and and
[5:30:33] there's a lot of issues with
[5:30:34] infrastructure. I'm certainly learning a
[5:30:36] lot of that. everyone between aging
[5:30:38] infrastructure trying to and I'm
[5:30:40] learning about you know concerns have
[5:30:43] been expressed on sometimes the
[5:30:45] difficulty on the grant process and so
[5:30:47] um where I can potentially help navigate
[5:30:51] some of that with everybody but right
[5:30:53] now it it truly is a
[5:30:56] getting to meet people and getting to
[5:30:59] start having those discussions so they
[5:31:00] know who I am and figuring out because
[5:31:02] there's a lot of people I mean there's
[5:31:04] also the reality of the resource that I
[5:31:06] can versus, you know, sometimes um the
[5:31:09] ask is out of my purview. It's different
[5:31:11] coming to meet with a county council
[5:31:13] because you understand uh where I can
[5:31:16] and where I cannot, you know, help with
[5:31:19] with issues. But yeah,
[5:31:22] >> well, I think we at one point in time
[5:31:24] » well, I think we at one point in time
[5:31:24] all of us were brand new sitting at this
[5:31:26] table and we thought, wow, there's a lot
[5:31:29] to learn. So the magnitude of what you
[5:31:32] have to deal with is much greater than
[5:31:34] what we had to deal with at that time.
[5:31:36] So, I appreciate
[5:31:38] >> Yeah.
[5:31:39] » Yeah.
[5:31:39] >> just just the just the fact that you
[5:31:42] » just just the just the fact that you
[5:31:42] say, "I'm I'm trying to get to know
[5:31:44] people. I'm trying to get to know the
[5:31:45] issues within my constituency
[5:31:48] and that you're making that your
[5:31:50] priority." To me, that that I respect
[5:31:53] that and and I certainly I'm happy to
[5:31:55] hear you say that. So,
[5:31:56] >> yeah. Well, the communication piece is
[5:31:58] » yeah. Well, the communication piece is
[5:31:58] really important to me. I what I've been
[5:32:00] saying to everyone is I'm more in I'm
[5:32:03] more interested with connecting. It's
[5:32:04] not so much that invite is not because
[5:32:06] I'm wanting it's not I'm not interested
[5:32:08] necessarily. It's not the photo op. I
[5:32:10] want to go deeper than a photo op in and
[5:32:13] um you know I I have a few things in the
[5:32:17] work of the you know to communicate
[5:32:19] better because one thing I heard on the
[5:32:21] doors a lot of people felt like they
[5:32:22] didn't know
[5:32:24] what was being done if anything. So, you
[5:32:27] can look forward to a newsletter that
[5:32:29] I'm going to be creating so that people
[5:32:31] will know what I'm up to and where I've
[5:32:32] been, which will also be helpful for the
[5:32:35] areas that maybe if they see that I
[5:32:36] haven't been in there, that might be
[5:32:38] that flag of did you send me that invite
[5:32:40] for me to know. I'm not going to be able
[5:32:41] to go to everything. Um, but I've
[5:32:44] actually already I've I've hit most of
[5:32:48] the towns actually in the short time
[5:32:50] I've been in one event or another, which
[5:32:53] is not too bad, I thought, given it's
[5:32:55] summer.
[5:32:56] >> Um, but yeah,
[5:32:59] » Um, but yeah,
[5:32:59] I'm more of a I appreciate what you say
[5:33:02] on on the code of conduct piece. I I am
[5:33:06] there's two things I'm pretty passionate
[5:33:08] about. It's policy, so I guess I'm in
[5:33:10] the right job. and um really strong
[5:33:13] governance and as someone who had to
[5:33:14] build a framework of that for when
[5:33:16] forming Alberta grains and creating a
[5:33:18] code of like I understand that piece
[5:33:20] because it is it is a building block. Um
[5:33:23] so I know you met with minister and I
[5:33:27] and you had already mentioned it to him
[5:33:28] and and uh taking that note again um
[5:33:33] yeah to follow up with him. Yeah,
[5:33:36] please. Council,
[5:33:38] >> just because you mentioned um
[5:33:39] » just because you mentioned um
[5:33:39] communication and I know for us around
[5:33:41] the table, it's huge, too. And I know I
[5:33:43] had reached out to Tara. I had a rapier
[5:33:44] that asked um now that we've had a
[5:33:46] change in our MLA, is the office still
[5:33:48] the same? Is the phone number still the
[5:33:50] same? So, maybe maybe this would be a
[5:33:52] little opportunity for you to be able to
[5:33:53] just communicate um to our folks how
[5:33:56] they can get a hold of you.
[5:33:57] >> Oh, yeah. Thanks. Yeah, I got my
[5:33:58] » Oh, yeah. Thanks. Yeah, I got my
[5:33:58] business cards finally this week.
[5:34:00] Woohoo.
[5:34:02] >> It's a bit of a work. I mean, so the I
[5:34:06] » It's a bit of a work. I mean, so the I
[5:34:06] did um
[5:34:08] maintain the office in OldS where uh
[5:34:12] Nathan Cooper was. So I did keep the
[5:34:14] office. So that the location is the
[5:34:16] same. And actually I'm very happy to say
[5:34:18] I um was able to maintain the same
[5:34:21] staff. So for those of you who knew
[5:34:23] Brenda Barth, she is my constituency
[5:34:26] office um and she's my assistant. She's
[5:34:30] my right hand. So, and Atlanta is also
[5:34:33] there on one day a week. So, um the only
[5:34:36] thing I've done different is I've I've
[5:34:37] hired a social media coordinator to help
[5:34:39] me on that communications piece. Um so,
[5:34:43] yeah, in terms of how the how to get
[5:34:46] actually this is a great opportunity to
[5:34:48] say anybody who is trying to get in
[5:34:49] touch with me on my personal Facebook, I
[5:34:51] will not be answering you there.
[5:34:54] >> I um that is my personal Facebook and I
[5:34:58] » I um that is my personal Facebook and I
[5:34:58] am keeping that separate. I have a
[5:35:01] business Facebook but more importantly
[5:35:04] that is what reaching out to my office
[5:35:05] there is an email there is a phone
[5:35:07] number if you actually want an issue
[5:35:09] that's where you go and I will get back
[5:35:12] to you and uh it might not be in 24
[5:35:15] hours I hate to break it to you but it
[5:35:17] won't be unless it's an emergency
[5:35:19] there's a lot of calls and a lot of
[5:35:20] things but that is where Brenda handles
[5:35:24] case work so it starts with her actually
[5:35:27] so um I will I will put that. Thank you
[5:35:30] for that PSA. I said that rather firmly,
[5:35:32] but I feel bad when I see one, but I
[5:35:34] won't I won't answer it because that is
[5:35:35] separate. It's also I won't accept your
[5:35:38] fan friend request to my personal, but
[5:35:40] join my you can go to my MLA I've put an
[5:35:44] MLA Facebook page, which we're still and
[5:35:47] I got hacked on Twitter three weeks ago,
[5:35:48] so I have no Twitter. I can't get that
[5:35:51] back. So, have to recreate a new one
[5:35:54] there. Well, I'm glad that you are
[5:35:56] trying to carve out a personal space for
[5:35:59] yourself because this can be really
[5:36:00] important. Um, the sad reality sometimes
[5:36:04] is when you're in this public role that
[5:36:07] you've just taken, it's almost
[5:36:09] impossible to go anywhere without being
[5:36:12] Terara Sawyer MLA. And I I'm sorry for
[5:36:15] that, but that's the reality some days.
[5:36:18] But I am I'm happy to hear that you are
[5:36:21] trying to carve out a a personal spot
[5:36:23] for yourself. So,
[5:36:24] >> yeah. No, it's not an apology, Ken.
[5:36:26] » yeah. No, it's not an apology, Ken.
[5:36:26] >> No, I know it's not. It's a good job on
[5:36:28] » No, I know it's not. It's a good job on
[5:36:28] your part that you do that.
[5:36:29] >> At at the end of the day, I feel very
[5:36:32] » At at the end of the day, I feel very
[5:36:32] honored to have this job. Quite frankly,
[5:36:34] it is my dream job.
[5:36:37] Um, it it really is because I just think
[5:36:42] it's important
[5:36:44] and and to have the ability to hopefully
[5:36:47] be a small part in improving this
[5:36:50] province. I don't take that lightly, but
[5:36:52] it is important because of that. And in
[5:36:53] my past role, I was used even in that
[5:36:55] pastor role people talk to you about and
[5:36:57] that's that's fine. But because it's at
[5:36:59] a this is a new level I've had to
[5:37:02] have to create that that boundary. So
[5:37:05] >> absolutely.
[5:37:05] » absolutely.
[5:37:05] >> Um it's not that I don't care. There is
[5:37:07] » Um it's not that I don't care. There is
[5:37:07] a way to get a hold of me. There's just
[5:37:09] a proper there's a proper way. And I
[5:37:12] don't I'm fine with I I would hope that
[5:37:13] someone comes up and says hi to me.
[5:37:15] Maybe I'll regret saying that later, but
[5:37:17] um you know, you know, to me it is part
[5:37:21] of the the role is um
[5:37:25] >> it's hard to represent the people if you
[5:37:27] » it's hard to represent the people if you
[5:37:27] won't connect with them, right?
[5:37:30] >> Okay, Councelor McGee or Deputy Ree,
[5:37:32] » Okay, Councelor McGee or Deputy Ree,
[5:37:32] sorry.
[5:37:33] >> That's fine. Thank you. I I just want to
[5:37:35] » That's fine. Thank you. I I just want to
[5:37:35] say uh I think you're you're way on
[5:37:38] track with having those clear boundaries
[5:37:40] and communicating those and I appreciate
[5:37:42] that because um the other point I had
[5:37:43] written down that I wanted to share with
[5:37:45] you is uh I appreciate your willingness
[5:37:47] to be engaging with us and I really
[5:37:50] appreciate that your entire caucus
[5:37:53] appears to have a very engaging attitude
[5:37:55] towards working with municipalities.
[5:37:57] I still am looking for improvement for
[5:38:00] it to be in the meaningful ways that
[5:38:02] matter to us as well. But I do see that
[5:38:04] the intent is is has grown greatly since
[5:38:07] I first became a counselor. And I just
[5:38:09] want to express that I love seeing that
[5:38:12] and hoping that the intent is to
[5:38:13] continue to grow that to a more
[5:38:15] meaningful capacity.
[5:38:19] » All right. Thank you,
[5:38:22] Council Wto.
[5:38:24] >> And since I were on YouTube, your
[5:38:27] » And since I were on YouTube, your
[5:38:27] constituency office is still the same
[5:38:29] number, 556 3132.
[5:38:35] Yeah, sure. Sorry. Let's look. I I don't
[5:38:39] ever call the number.
[5:38:40] >> Oh, okay. Um,
[5:38:42] » Oh, okay. Um,
[5:38:42] >> well, I did, so that's why I know what
[5:38:43] » well, I did, so that's why I know what
[5:38:43] the number is. Well, that's what the
[5:38:45] number used to be.
[5:38:46] >> So, I'm just I'm I'm just giving the
[5:38:49] » So, I'm just I'm I'm just giving the
[5:38:49] opportunity for people who may be online
[5:38:52] watching whether how to get a hold of
[5:38:55] you, I guess.
[5:38:56] >> Well, I know because I Googled it
[5:38:57] » Well, I know because I Googled it
[5:38:57] yesterday and it's all there. It's the
[5:38:59] same. 5563132.
[5:39:02] Still the same. And and the the the
[5:39:07] website. Well, it's not really a website
[5:39:09] when you look at it, but that there is
[5:39:11] an email. So, I mean, you can call the
[5:39:13] office. I don't know. I I And you can
[5:39:15] email the office and there is a response
[5:39:17] there.
[5:39:18] >> No, I just I just thought while people
[5:39:19] » No, I just I just thought while people
[5:39:19] were watching, if they had the ability
[5:39:22] to get the number, that way it's it's
[5:39:25] out there. And thank you very much for
[5:39:27] coming in. I do appreciate it.
[5:39:29] Good luck in your job.
[5:39:30] >> And you're right, it probably it's
[5:39:33] » And you're right, it probably it's
[5:39:33] probably even worse than drinking out of
[5:39:34] a fire hose. But, uh, that being said,
[5:39:38] once you catch on, it it gets easier
[5:39:40] down the road.
[5:39:42] >> Well, for sure. And like I said, it's
[5:39:45] » Well, for sure. And like I said, it's
[5:39:45] it's no different than any other job
[5:39:47] when you start a new role role. And it's
[5:39:50] not an excuse. It's just it is the
[5:39:51] reality. And I I have no problem if
[5:39:54] someone
[5:39:55] >> doesn't like that. I'd rather I'm going
[5:39:57] » doesn't like that. I'd rather I'm going
[5:39:57] to be honest. I'm not going to tell you
[5:39:58] I have an answer and have an answer,
[5:40:01] right? It's a I will get back to you,
[5:40:04] which sounds like such a politician
[5:40:05] thing to say, but it's the reality and
[5:40:08] it's no different than any other thing.
[5:40:09] I mean, I'm a pretty bl bl bl bl bl bl
[5:40:12] bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl
[5:40:12] bl bl bl bl bl bl bl bl blunt anyone
[5:40:12] knows me, I'm pretty blunt to begin
[5:40:14] with. So, we'll see how that goes. Um,
[5:40:17] but at the end of the day, I think it's
[5:40:19] just it's important for everyone to
[5:40:20] recognize. I mean
[5:40:23] my intent is to represent this writing
[5:40:27] and um you know I may not be able to
[5:40:31] give everyone the answer or the result
[5:40:32] they want but it but every voice is
[5:40:35] going to be I'm going to listen to
[5:40:36] everybody and what I can do I am going
[5:40:40] to do my best to do.
[5:40:44] >> So thank you.
[5:40:45] » So thank you.
[5:40:45] >> So thank you for your time. Noah. Um,
[5:40:48] » So thank you for your time. Noah. Um,
[5:40:48] we thank you for taking the time to be
[5:40:50] here and to have this visit with us
[5:40:53] today. Um, you are in a brand new role
[5:40:56] and it's very important the role that
[5:40:59] you're filling on our behalf. And so we
[5:41:01] need to be very appreciative of the fact
[5:41:03] that you stepped up and are willing to
[5:41:04] do that. And so let us say thank you for
[5:41:08] doing that on our behalf. And um,
[5:41:11] congratulations on successfully
[5:41:14] defending the seat. and we certainly
[5:41:16] will look forward to working together
[5:41:18] with you going forward. And uh if
[5:41:21] there's um stuff that you need from us
[5:41:25] or there's things that we can provide
[5:41:27] information that helps you then uh it's
[5:41:31] a two-way street. We don't want to be
[5:41:33] coming hat to you all the time. We want
[5:41:35] to also support and encourage what
[5:41:37] you're doing as our representative. So,
[5:41:40] so thank you for taking on the role and
[5:41:43] stepping up and even if it's your dream
[5:41:46] job, I'm certain some days it's going to
[5:41:48] be a nightmare. And so, just be
[5:41:51] encouraged, I think, is all I want to
[5:41:53] say and and express our appreciation.
[5:41:56] So, thanks.
[5:41:58] >> Nope. Thanks very much for having me.
[5:42:00] » Nope. Thanks very much for having me.
[5:42:00] Acts of service, right?
[5:42:02] >> Yeah.
[5:42:03] » Yeah.
[5:42:03] >> We all get called to something and I I
[5:42:06] » We all get called to something and I I
[5:42:06] feel called to this one. So,
[5:42:07] >> good.
[5:42:08] » good.
[5:42:08] >> Yeah. So, and thank I mean truly thank
[5:42:11] » Yeah. So, and thank I mean truly thank
[5:42:11] you all. I know you don't have an easy
[5:42:13] job. So, um thank you for what you're
[5:42:15] doing on behalf of the county, all of
[5:42:18] you. And uh yeah, look forward to many
[5:42:21] more meetings.
[5:42:25] We'll have lots to talk about and
[5:42:28] they'll get better the further we go.
[5:42:30] >> Yeah, exactly.
[5:42:31] » Yeah, exactly.
[5:42:31] >> Okay. Thank you.
[5:42:32] » Okay. Thank you.
[5:42:32] >> Thank you very much for spending the
[5:42:34] » Thank you very much for spending the
[5:42:34] time with us today. Very much
[5:42:36] appreciated. So,
[5:42:49] You did say you had a relatively full
[5:42:50] calendar, right?
[5:42:59] [Music]
[5:43:03] » Thanks,
[5:43:03] >> Darl.
[5:43:09] All right.
[5:43:11] Well, that was good.
[5:43:15] Now, we're going to go back to the
[5:43:17] regular business of council. And we left
[5:43:20] off in the middle of a discussion on
[5:43:21] policy 3-1,
[5:43:24] which is council compensation and
[5:43:25] expense reimbursement.
[5:43:28] And I'm going to welcome you back, Miss
[5:43:31] Khaled. And
[5:43:33] um yeah, we had asked for some
[5:43:36] information related to a a change that
[5:43:39] we made in the past and I understand
[5:43:42] that that was researched and you're all
[5:43:46] primed and ready to tell us about it. So
[5:43:48] anytime you're ready.
[5:43:50] >> Yes, we have the answers. Um they're
[5:43:53] » Yes, we have the answers. Um they're
[5:43:53] just up on the board or on the screen.
[5:43:56] The first two are just talking about the
[5:43:59] current state that we're in where we're
[5:44:01] talking about the current amounts as
[5:44:02] well as the proposed the question on the
[5:44:05] table. Oh,
[5:44:06] >> can I bother you to enlarge the screen?
[5:44:10] » can I bother you to enlarge the screen?
[5:44:10] >> Sorry.
[5:44:12] » Sorry.
[5:44:12] That's great. Thank you. Sorry.
[5:44:15] >> That was maybe a little bit much. There
[5:44:17] » That was maybe a little bit much. There
[5:44:17] you go.
[5:44:18] >> Oh, we lost some of the numbers now.
[5:44:23] » There we go. Thank you so much.
[5:44:29] Thank you, Carolyn.
[5:44:31] >> Um, we're still not there quite
[5:44:39] » there.
[5:44:47] » Who said it can't be done?
[5:44:52] All right. So, the first two amounts are
[5:44:54] just going over what's already in the
[5:44:56] report. Talking about the 2025 current
[5:45:00] amount and the 2025 proposed amount. The
[5:45:03] question that administration had
[5:45:05] received was about the cut that we had
[5:45:08] that council went through in 2020. That
[5:45:10] was a 15% base pay cut. Uh prior to that
[5:45:14] cut, the amounts for Reeve, deputy reev,
[5:45:18] and counselor are in the pri prior to
[5:45:20] cut column.
[5:45:22] After the cut, the amounts were 2,800
[5:45:25] for Reev, for the deputy reev 2400, and
[5:45:28] for the counselor, 21,00.
[5:45:33] If the amounts had stayed the same prior
[5:45:35] the prior to the cut amounts had stayed
[5:45:37] and were the ones that were implemented
[5:45:39] the current amounts with the adjustment
[5:45:41] would be the ones on the most right. So
[5:45:44] for the reef it would be 3,364.
[5:45:47] The deputy reef would be 2914
[5:45:50] and the counselor's amount would be
[5:45:52] 2578.
[5:45:55] So that would be with those market
[5:45:56] adjustments and if there was no cut that
[5:45:58] would be the current 2025 amount for the
[5:46:01] compensation.
[5:46:07] » Well, thank you for that. I appreciate
[5:46:09] that.
[5:46:11] >> No problem.
[5:46:16] » Uh uh council
[5:46:18] >> sure you want to give
[5:46:21] » sure you want to give
[5:46:21] >> I like that.
[5:46:24] » I like that.
[5:46:24] Um, thank you for that. Um, in seeing
[5:46:26] that I we're really not far off at when
[5:46:29] you put it all together that what we're
[5:46:31] proposing.
[5:46:37] Okay. Um, further questions, discussion,
[5:46:44] direction.
[5:46:52] Councelor Ped.
[5:46:55] >> Um I would actually make the motion that
[5:46:56] » Um I would actually make the motion that
[5:46:56] council move to approve make sure I'm on
[5:46:59] the right one here. Policy 3-1 council
[5:47:02] compensation expense reimbursement as
[5:47:04] presented effective November 1st, 2025.
[5:47:11] Okay.
[5:47:14] All right. Any further discussion,
[5:47:17] comment uh related to the motion that we
[5:47:20] approve the proposed policy 3-1 council
[5:47:25] compensation and expense reimbursement
[5:47:27] as presented to be effective November
[5:47:30] 1st of 2021.
[5:47:33] I'm Deputy Reed McGee.
[5:47:35] >> I just feel after um my comments earlier
[5:47:38] » I just feel after um my comments earlier
[5:47:38] that I need to um say that I will be
[5:47:42] voting in favor of this motion. I feel
[5:47:44] that we have had a great discussion
[5:47:47] though I'm still bit uncomfortable with
[5:47:49] the overall salary. The o overall policy
[5:47:52] is what uh the majority wants and I'm
[5:47:55] quite happy with the conversation going
[5:47:57] but um my position on that one number
[5:48:00] isn't going to cause me to vote against
[5:48:04] uh this motion.
[5:48:06] >> Okay. Thank you for that. Any other
[5:48:08] » Okay. Thank you for that. Any other
[5:48:08] discussion, comment or question? Um we
[5:48:12] have the motion to approve um as
[5:48:16] presented.
[5:48:21] Councelor Cunningham.
[5:48:22] >> So I just want to say thank you for
[5:48:23] » So I just want to say thank you for
[5:48:23] getting those numbers that that I
[5:48:24] requested. That was very helpful for me
[5:48:26] because I didn't sit on council last
[5:48:28] time and just as a rateayer at that
[5:48:30] time. Um I have to say I thought it was
[5:48:34] um very honorable of the council at that
[5:48:36] time. Like we said, we were every we
[5:48:38] were going through a very interesting
[5:48:39] time in the world at that time and so
[5:48:42] for council to take that cut uh I think
[5:48:44] was was very like I said kind of set the
[5:48:48] tone. So when when you compared that um
[5:48:51] had that stayed where it was, we are
[5:48:53] still actually under what that what that
[5:48:56] payment would be if that amount had
[5:48:58] stayed. So So that's why um I really
[5:49:01] appreciate those numbers that make help
[5:49:02] make things much clearer for me. So
[5:49:04] thank you.
[5:49:07] Thank you for that. Any other questions
[5:49:10] or comment or discussion related to the
[5:49:12] motion to approve the proposed policy
[5:49:16] effective November 1st?
[5:49:19] I don't see any. I'm going to call the
[5:49:21] question.
[5:49:25] Okay. All those in favor?
[5:49:29] Uh motion is carried unanimous. And
[5:49:31] again, uh, thank you, Miss Khaled, for
[5:49:34] all that work. Um, very much appreciate
[5:49:37] it. Um,
[5:49:40] and so I know
[5:49:43] the research and everything that you did
[5:49:45] to make that happen, um, it's very much
[5:49:48] appreciated on our part. So, thank you.
[5:49:51] >> Thank you, council.
[5:49:54] » Thank you, council.
[5:49:54] >> Um, the
[5:49:57] » Um, the
[5:49:57] next item on our agenda would be 7.2.
[5:50:01] two, which is policy 3-3.
[5:50:05] Um, council appointees reimbursement.
[5:50:10] And who's taking that one?
[5:50:13] >> That would be me.
[5:50:16] » That would be me.
[5:50:16] >> Well, Miss Vanool, then whenever you are
[5:50:19] » Well, Miss Vanool, then whenever you are
[5:50:19] ready.
[5:50:20] >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. I bring to you
[5:50:22] » Thank you, Mr. Chair. I bring to you
[5:50:22] today policy 3-3, council appointees
[5:50:25] reimbursement. The purpose of this
[5:50:27] policy is to establish clear guidelines
[5:50:29] for the rates of pay, mileage, meal
[5:50:31] reimbursement, and convention allowance
[5:50:33] for our appointed members at large. The
[5:50:36] comm um the committee of the whole had a
[5:50:38] chance to review this policy back in
[5:50:40] June as this policy is um in our review
[5:50:43] schedule. At that meeting, council made
[5:50:46] a recommendation to increase the PDM
[5:50:48] rate to 320. However, the last couple
[5:50:51] months, council has been reviewing their
[5:50:52] own council compensation and actually
[5:50:54] just approved $36128
[5:50:57] PDM rate for themselves. Administration
[5:51:00] put the same pdium in the proposed
[5:51:02] policy. However, council retains the
[5:51:04] authority to adjust this amount as they
[5:51:06] see fit.
[5:51:08] Another change that was made to the
[5:51:09] policy was an increase to the meal
[5:51:12] reimbursements by $5 each, making
[5:51:15] breakfast $20, dinner $20, and supper
[5:51:18] $30. This is for members who do not have
[5:51:20] a receipt. If a member does have a
[5:51:22] receipt, they can get reimbursed for
[5:51:24] what that receipt is for as long as it
[5:51:26] is an appropriate expense.
[5:51:29] U we recommend that these changes take
[5:51:31] effect November 1st, aligning with
[5:51:33] council's compensation policy that was
[5:51:34] just passed. That concludes my report.
[5:51:37] I'm happy to answer any questions you
[5:51:38] might have.
[5:51:40] >> Okay. Thank you for that. Um any
[5:51:43] » Okay. Thank you for that. Um any
[5:51:43] questions from council regarding policy
[5:51:46] 3-3?
[5:51:50] Um, sure. Councelor Witto,
[5:51:52] >> I know it's an oversight, Carolyn. Uh,
[5:51:55] » I know it's an oversight, Carolyn. Uh,
[5:51:55] effective rate in red here is January
[5:51:58] 1st of 26. Did you want to amend that to
[5:52:01] November 1st of 25?
[5:52:04] >> Yes, I can change that on the
[5:52:05] » Yes, I can change that on the
[5:52:06] >> I'll just Yeah.
[5:52:06] » I'll just Yeah.
[5:52:06] >> Okay, good.
[5:52:07] » Okay, good.
[5:52:07] >> It was just an afterthought when we were
[5:52:09] » It was just an afterthought when we were
[5:52:09] bringing that one forward and Yeah, it
[5:52:12] was Sorry, I missed that.
[5:52:20] Okay. So, basically the two policies now
[5:52:22] align with each other.
[5:52:25] Okay. And that was the goal that we had
[5:52:27] is that they would be in alignment.
[5:52:29] >> That's correct.
[5:52:30] » That's correct.
[5:52:30] >> Councelor Woodstock.
[5:52:32] » Councelor Woodstock.
[5:52:32] >> Okay. So, I would like to make the
[5:52:34] » Okay. So, I would like to make the
[5:52:34] motion that council approved policy 3-3,
[5:52:37] council appointees reimbursement review
[5:52:40] as presented effective November 1st of
[5:52:42] 2025.
[5:52:46] Okay. Thank you for that. So, we do have
[5:52:49] a motion to approve the policy 3-3
[5:52:52] council appointees reimbursement review
[5:52:54] as presented effective November 1st,
[5:52:57] 2025.
[5:52:58] Any further discussion, question or
[5:53:00] comment related to that?
[5:53:07] I'm not seeing any. So, are you prepared
[5:53:09] for the question? All those in favor?
[5:53:12] And that is carried unanimously.
[5:53:16] So, thank you, Miss Vanderool, for that.
[5:53:20] The next item on our agenda is
[5:53:23] disposition of delegation and public
[5:53:27] hearing business
[5:53:30] and
[5:53:33] I guess I'm going to look to you again.
[5:53:35] >> Perfect.
[5:53:38] » Perfect.
[5:53:38] >> Miss Vander.
[5:53:40] » Miss Vander.
[5:53:40] >> Perfect. All right. So, earlier today,
[5:53:42] » Perfect. All right. So, earlier today,
[5:53:42] Dr. Schaefer attended as a delegation.
[5:53:45] He was invited at council's request as
[5:53:47] you had asked for a presentation from an
[5:53:49] expert on Alberta's electrical grid. U
[5:53:52] Dr. Schaefer provided that presentation
[5:53:54] which gave council valuable background
[5:53:56] and context on the grid and related
[5:53:58] processes. As this was for information
[5:54:01] purposes only, administration recommends
[5:54:03] that council receive the Alberta
[5:54:05] electricity grid presentation from Dr.
[5:54:07] Schaefer for information.
[5:54:11] » Okay, thank you for that. There any uh
[5:54:15] discussions to the request that we just
[5:54:17] received for information?
[5:54:21] Councelor Cigan,
[5:54:22] >> I just want to say thank you to
[5:54:24] » I just want to say thank you to
[5:54:24] administration for inviting um Dr.
[5:54:26] Schaefer. I thought his presentation was
[5:54:28] excellent and um he was very engaging
[5:54:30] and I think it was really important for
[5:54:33] him to hear our rural perspective out
[5:54:35] here too. So uh with that being said,
[5:54:37] I'll make the motion that council
[5:54:38] receive for information the Alberta
[5:54:40] electricity grid presentation from Dr.
[5:54:42] Blake Schaefer.
[5:54:44] >> Thank you for that, Councelor
[5:54:45] » Thank you for that, Councelor
[5:54:45] Cunningham. So, we do have a motion to
[5:54:47] receive for information the Alberta
[5:54:49] electricity
[5:54:55] grid presentation from Dr. Schaefer.
[5:54:59] Um, and the only comment I'm going to
[5:55:02] make is it appears there's no E in his
[5:55:04] shaper
[5:55:07] on the stuff that he gave us.
[5:55:10] >> So,
[5:55:11] » So,
[5:55:11] Anyway,
[5:55:12] >> goodness.
[5:55:16] » Okay, any discussion? If not, all those
[5:55:19] in favor? Oh, sorry. You had discussion.
[5:55:21] >> Just just a positive comment. I really
[5:55:23] » Just just a positive comment. I really
[5:55:23] enjoyed the information and appreciate
[5:55:25] it very much.
[5:55:26] >> Great.
[5:55:27] » Great.
[5:55:27] >> Thank you, Councelor Cunningham or
[5:55:30] » Thank you, Councelor Cunningham or
[5:55:30] Councelor Christie.
[5:55:32] >> Both of you. Thank you.
[5:55:39] » All right. I think it's time for a
[5:55:40] break.
[5:55:42] Okay, we got that nailed. Councelor
[5:55:44] Cunningham made the motion. Councelor
[5:55:47] Christie made the comment. Thank you.
[5:55:49] All right.
[5:55:51] All those in favor?
[5:55:55] That's carried unanimously. Good thing
[5:55:57] we're not all perfect here because I'd
[5:56:00] be in the wrong room if we were.
[5:56:04] All right, the next item on our agenda
[5:56:06] would be 8.2, to regional parks and
[5:56:09] recreation needs assessment delegation
[5:56:12] by the Bellard group and I'm going to
[5:56:15] say welcome Miss Sherlock.
[5:56:22] » Thank you. Um so yes uh this morning I
[5:56:28] um we had the delegation from valid
[5:56:30] group come to discuss the project. Um,
[5:56:34] currently we have them conducting a
[5:56:36] regional parks and recreation needs
[5:56:37] assessment so that we can determine and
[5:56:40] evaluate the current state and the
[5:56:41] availability of the recreational
[5:56:43] resources for Neihill County residents
[5:56:46] and the surrounding municipalities.
[5:56:48] Um lots of this uh big proponent of that
[5:56:51] was the is the engagement portion um
[5:56:54] which we're currently in the middle of
[5:56:56] as well as um the inventory um analysis
[5:57:02] and assessment of the facilities that
[5:57:04] are available. Um
[5:57:06] and as uh Asid um detailed in his his
[5:57:11] presentation um the uh background
[5:57:14] research and benchmarking proponents
[5:57:17] that uh will come later on in the
[5:57:20] eventual report writing. So
[5:57:22] uh with that I will bring it to council.
[5:57:26] Is there any questions or anything from
[5:57:29] there?
[5:57:31] >> Okay. Thank you Miss Sherlock. Um, any
[5:57:34] » Okay. Thank you Miss Sherlock. Um, any
[5:57:34] questions? Um, Councelor Christie,
[5:57:38] >> just a comment. I appreciate the
[5:57:40] » just a comment. I appreciate the
[5:57:40] diligence they're going after
[5:57:42] information one-on-one to get
[5:57:44] information because surveys scare the
[5:57:46] hell out of me if you don't have
[5:57:48] feedback. So, I appreciate that they're
[5:57:50] taking time to talk to everybody.
[5:57:55] » Thank you for that,
[5:57:57] >> Councelor Penner.
[5:57:58] » Councelor Penner.
[5:57:58] >> I think it is also very important that
[5:57:59] » I think it is also very important that
[5:58:00] they're not too long because you'll lose
[5:58:02] people. They give up. So, it cannot be
[5:58:03] too long.
[5:58:05] >> Yeah, I believe it's under the 10-minute
[5:58:07] » Yeah, I believe it's under the 10-minute
[5:58:07] mark to complete. Um, and I did ask
[5:58:11] Christine at the break uh over lunch
[5:58:13] about the website page that should be
[5:58:16] launched tomorrow. Um, as well as some
[5:58:19] of the social media posting. So,
[5:58:21] >> okay. Thank you.
[5:58:24] » okay. Thank you.
[5:58:24] >> Any other questions, discussion? Deputy
[5:58:27] » Any other questions, discussion? Deputy
[5:58:27] McGee.
[5:58:29] Um I'm I'm still sorting out exactly how
[5:58:31] I want to go about what I have to say,
[5:58:33] but um I first off I think who you have
[5:58:38] come to us is going to do a very
[5:58:41] thorough excellent job and I'm really
[5:58:42] excited about this project and thank you
[5:58:44] for that.
[5:58:47] Um having said that though I I find it
[5:58:51] challenging to be in the role that I'm
[5:58:52] in when a survey goes out before I know
[5:58:55] a survey is going out and what's in the
[5:58:56] survey because again like said in a
[5:58:58] different point, we are the lays on to
[5:59:01] the community and I just feel um
[5:59:03] inadequate to my residents if we're not
[5:59:06] informed on those things. So, um, having
[5:59:10] said that, I'd like to ask
[5:59:11] administration if maybe we could
[5:59:13] consider bringing our public
[5:59:15] participation or communication policy
[5:59:17] forward to revamp it so that we can
[5:59:19] address that in a more constructive,
[5:59:21] proactive way because um I just feel
[5:59:24] like a piece was missed with how we
[5:59:27] rolled this out
[5:59:29] that makes it difficult for council to
[5:59:31] do their job well.
[5:59:33] >> Absolutely.
[5:59:35] » Absolutely.
[5:59:35] >> Go ahead, Miss Sherlock. So, in response
[5:59:38] » Go ahead, Miss Sherlock. So, in response
[5:59:38] to that, absolutely. Um, the intention
[5:59:40] was to have council be the first point
[5:59:42] of contact, but with the discovery night
[5:59:45] coming and being that first week, um, we
[5:59:49] had to take the opportunity where it was
[5:59:51] available. Um, and so that was
[5:59:55] essentially a soft launch for us to get
[5:59:57] it out there. Um, make some of those
[5:59:59] connections. But, um, of course, our
[6:00:01] intention was always to be council
[6:00:04] first. uh this was just the earliest we
[6:00:06] could get onto the agenda. So I
[6:00:08] appreciate that.
[6:00:10] >> Thank you. And and for me having it as
[6:00:13] » Thank you. And and for me having it as
[6:00:13] part of this package would have been
[6:00:14] very helpful
[6:00:15] >> as well. Um but yes um through the chair
[6:00:19] » as well. Um but yes um through the chair
[6:00:19] may I ask Mr. Hogan if I could how to
[6:00:22] word a motion to bring back the
[6:00:24] participation policy?
[6:00:29] » Well, it's pretty straightforward. I
[6:00:31] think just uh request administration to
[6:00:35] bring forward the policy regarding
[6:00:38] public participation for review.
[6:00:51] Public participation policy that's
[6:00:53] called
[6:01:04] Some moved.
[6:01:15] Okay.
[6:01:18] Council
[6:01:32] Um, it's 18-2 public consultation
[6:01:36] policy.
[6:01:41] 18-2
[6:01:44] public consultation policy.
[6:01:59] I'm just trying to get it to come up on
[6:02:02] my computer here.
[6:02:04] Um because it's under two. Okay. It's
[6:02:06] actually called the public participation
[6:02:09] policy
[6:02:11] 18-2.
[6:02:15] It's got two titles in our website.
[6:02:25] Super
[6:02:45] Deputy McGee. You made that motion?
[6:02:50] » Yes, that's good. Thank you.
[6:02:55] » All right. So, we have a motion um in
[6:02:59] the midst of this presentation. So,
[6:03:02] let's deal with that. Uh council
[6:03:03] requests administration to bring forward
[6:03:05] for review policy 18-2, the public
[6:03:08] participation policy.
[6:03:11] Uh any discussion, question or comment?
[6:03:15] Mr. Hogan? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just as
[6:03:17] a note to council, that policy is
[6:03:19] scheduled for review at this at this
[6:03:21] time. So, it is coming up in its natural
[6:03:22] rotation.
[6:03:25] >> Okay. Well, I guess this just this just
[6:03:28] » Okay. Well, I guess this just this just
[6:03:28] affirms that or reaffirms that.
[6:03:32] >> Um, so from your point of view, it's
[6:03:35] » Um, so from your point of view, it's
[6:03:35] okay to go forward with this motion or
[6:03:38] you don't do you see it as redundant or
[6:03:42] >> uh through the chair, I don't see it as
[6:03:43] » uh through the chair, I don't see it as
[6:03:43] redundant. If it's a priority to
[6:03:44] council, then the mot appropriate. Um I
[6:03:47] was just putting out there on the policy
[6:03:48] review schedule though. This one is one
[6:03:50] of the ones that
[6:03:51] >> Okay.
[6:03:51] » Okay.
[6:03:52] >> is coming.
[6:03:52] » is coming.
[6:03:52] >> Deputy McGee,
[6:03:54] » Deputy McGee,
[6:03:54] >> when do you have a timeline of when
[6:03:56] » when do you have a timeline of when
[6:03:56] you're expecting to bring that back
[6:03:59] >> through the chair? It's not there's
[6:04:01] » through the chair? It's not there's
[6:04:01] there's not been a specific meeting
[6:04:03] slated for this review.
[6:04:05] >> Okay. Well, then I'd like to keep the
[6:04:06] » Okay. Well, then I'd like to keep the
[6:04:06] motion.
[6:04:07] >> This just sets it as a higher priority,
[6:04:09] » This just sets it as a higher priority,
[6:04:09] >> right? So, I'd like to keep the motion
[6:04:11] » right? So, I'd like to keep the motion
[6:04:11] for that reason.
[6:04:11] >> Y
[6:04:15] » um And I think for me personally this
[6:04:17] goes handinhand with governance model
[6:04:19] because um our conversation about that
[6:04:21] last time there was a little piece about
[6:04:23] the public part participation policy. So
[6:04:26] I see them actually going a little bit
[6:04:28] hand in hand. I think you almost can't
[6:04:30] do one without the other. That's just
[6:04:31] me.
[6:04:34] >> Well unfortunately in municipal
[6:04:35] » Well unfortunately in municipal
[6:04:35] government sometimes we have what seems
[6:04:38] to be totally either unrelated or
[6:04:40] related things happening at different or
[6:04:42] same other times. So
[6:04:45] Okay. So, we do have a motion in front
[6:04:47] of us. Is there any further discussion
[6:04:49] to the motion that we request
[6:04:51] administration to bring forward uh for
[6:04:53] review policy 18-2, the public
[6:04:56] participation policy?
[6:04:59] There is none. I'm going to call the
[6:05:00] question. All those in favor?
[6:05:03] And that's carried unanimous. All right.
[6:05:06] We're going back to regional parks and
[6:05:08] recreation needs assessment. Um the
[6:05:10] Ballard group delegation here earlier
[6:05:13] today Any
[6:05:15] further comment or discussion related to
[6:05:18] that specific item?
[6:05:21] Councelor Cunningham, please.
[6:05:22] >> So, through the chair to the CEO, just
[6:05:24] » So, through the chair to the CEO, just
[6:05:24] because I don't have it just at hand,
[6:05:27] can you just remind me what was budgeted
[6:05:30] um in the 2025 budget for the parks and
[6:05:34] recreation needs assessment?
[6:05:37] >> Uh through the chair, we'd have to
[6:05:38] » Uh through the chair, we'd have to
[6:05:38] confirm that number. I don't have it off
[6:05:40] the top of my head.
[6:05:49] Any other questions or comment?
[6:06:05] » Sure.
[6:06:06] >> I'd make the motion that council receive
[6:06:08] » I'd make the motion that council receive
[6:06:08] for information the presentation
[6:06:09] provided by the ballot group.
[6:06:12] Okay.
[6:06:16] Any further discussion?
[6:06:25] Administration will get us that number.
[6:06:27] Okay. All those in favor
[6:06:31] and that motion is carried unanimous.
[6:06:33] Thank you.
[6:06:35] The next item on our agenda Oh, Mr.
[6:06:38] Hogan. Sorry.
[6:06:40] Um, dear Mr. Reev, just looking in the
[6:06:43] uh at the second quarter budget variance
[6:06:45] report there under operating projects,
[6:06:46] the e the parks and recreation needs
[6:06:49] assessment was budgeted at 110,000 to
[6:06:51] come from the parks reserve. Uh we're
[6:06:53] projecting that it's going to be about
[6:06:54] 75.
[6:06:57] >> There we go. Thank you.
[6:07:04] All
[6:07:09] right.
[6:07:11] Um,
[6:07:14] delegation,
[6:07:16] um, behalf of our local MLA,
[6:07:19] Terara Sawyer,
[6:07:26] Miss Vander.
[6:07:28] >> Yes, that's me again.
[6:07:33] » Yes, that's me again.
[6:07:33] keeping you jumping.
[6:07:34] >> Right.
[6:07:34] » Right.
[6:07:34] >> Yep.
[6:07:36] » Yep.
[6:07:36] >> All right. So, today we heard from El Em
[6:07:39] » All right. So, today we heard from El Em
[6:07:39] M Emila Terara Sawyer. She attended
[6:07:41] council as a delegation at council's
[6:07:43] request. Council highlighted local
[6:07:45] priorities including Badlands
[6:07:47] Motorsports, FCSS funding, provincial
[6:07:50] downloading Bill 50, um council code of
[6:07:53] conduct um replacement, municipal
[6:07:56] involvement with the AU, provincial
[6:07:58] invitation to Horseshoe Horseshoe
[6:08:00] Canyon, and potential tourism funding.
[6:08:03] Emily Terara Sawyer Sawyer also shared
[6:08:06] her goals and priorities in representing
[6:08:08] the area. As this was for information
[6:08:11] purposes only, administration recommends
[6:08:13] that council receive MLA Terasawyer's
[6:08:15] delegation for information.
[6:08:21] Thank you for that.
[6:08:25] Any question or comment or someone care
[6:08:27] to make the motion? Councelor Christie,
[6:08:30] >> I make the motion, but I appreciate her
[6:08:32] » I make the motion, but I appreciate her
[6:08:32] ability to
[6:08:34] absorb a lot of stuff in the first year
[6:08:36] and it's overwhelming and I'm glad at
[6:08:38] this point after the election, she still
[6:08:40] thinks it's her dream job. So, I really
[6:08:42] appreciate that. So, anyway, I'd make
[6:08:44] the motion to receive for information
[6:08:46] the presentation provided by MLA Terara
[6:08:48] Sawyer.
[6:08:49] >> Okay, thank you for that. Any discussion
[6:08:51] » Okay, thank you for that. Any discussion
[6:08:52] to that motion?
[6:08:54] If not, all those in favor?
[6:08:57] That motion's carried unanimously?
[6:09:00] Uh, Mr. Ganon, I was remiss in not
[6:09:03] thanking Miss Sherlock for being here
[6:09:06] and making her presentation. So, please
[6:09:08] pass um council's thanks on to her for
[6:09:13] having been here today and
[6:09:15] helping us wade through the
[6:09:18] presentation. Please do that.
[6:09:21] >> I will. Thank you.
[6:09:25] » All right.
[6:09:27] The next item on our agenda is council
[6:09:31] and committee reports.
[6:09:34] So, um, although you weren't in the room
[6:09:38] at the time, councelor Phobes, I did put
[6:09:40] a placeholder in place in case you
[6:09:42] wanted to provide us with anything from
[6:09:44] Nehill Housing. If if you do not, that's
[6:09:48] fine. I just wanted to make sure that
[6:09:50] the opportunity was there if you wish to
[6:09:52] take it.
[6:09:54] >> And I would like to say thank you to the
[6:09:56] » And I would like to say thank you to the
[6:09:56] public for being patient while we
[6:09:58] figured out what was accurate in all of
[6:10:00] our minutes to make sure that we didn't
[6:10:02] have anything left. that needed to be
[6:10:04] addressing. So that is why it was a
[6:10:06] little tardy and giving you the whole
[6:10:07] year's worth in one shot,
[6:10:10] but I just wanted to make sure that you
[6:10:11] were aware of what was going on within
[6:10:13] the organization.
[6:10:14] >> Okay. Thank you.
[6:10:15] » Okay. Thank you.
[6:10:15] >> And then can I just This is it wasn't
[6:10:18] » And then can I just This is it wasn't
[6:10:18] part because I wasn't in the room. I
[6:10:19] just want to say thank you on behalf of
[6:10:21] the Torington Egg Society. They sent me
[6:10:24] a text message. really wanted everyone
[6:10:26] on council to know that they appreciate
[6:10:28] the amount of um money that you're
[6:10:30] putting into keeping that building and
[6:10:32] the community alive.
[6:10:34] >> So, they just wanted to say thank you so
[6:10:35] » So, they just wanted to say thank you so
[6:10:36] much for that.
[6:10:38] >> Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the
[6:10:41] » Okay. Thank you. I appreciate the
[6:10:41] appreciation from them. Yeah.
[6:10:45] All right. Um Thank you. Um
[6:10:51] next item would be 9.2 two, which is the
[6:10:53] division five update, which is of course
[6:10:55] you, counselor Cunningham. So, whenever
[6:10:58] you're ready.
[6:10:59] >> Sorry. And I know we were a little
[6:11:00] » Sorry. And I know we were a little
[6:11:00] rushed last time, but I'll still try to
[6:11:02] buzz through this quickly this time.
[6:11:03] Just a couple things from from last
[6:11:05] meeting. Um, Sergeant Day uh when he was
[6:11:08] here as our uh detachment commander in
[6:11:12] Three Hills, he received the King
[6:11:13] Charles II coronation medal. Um, he just
[6:11:17] there was some logistics about getting
[6:11:19] him and K division together. So he did
[6:11:21] receive it while he was in the role here
[6:11:22] in Three House. So I just wanted to
[6:11:24] acknowledge um the fact that he did
[6:11:26] receive it. Some great pictures out
[6:11:28] there on on social media. So again,
[6:11:30] congratulations to Sergeant Day. He's
[6:11:32] the current acting detachment commander
[6:11:34] at the RCMP. Um future to be determined.
[6:11:37] So yeah, so just again congratulations
[6:11:39] to him and thanks to him for all the
[6:11:40] work he did when he was here. Um, I also
[6:11:43] had a call from Jason Calhoun who asked
[6:11:45] me to express uh his and his family's um
[6:11:49] thanks to Nihill County for our
[6:11:51] involvement in their celebration um that
[6:11:54] was held last month. Um he just felt
[6:11:57] that it was really important to let us
[6:11:58] know that um they really appreciated
[6:12:00] Nihill County being there um being a
[6:12:02] part of that celebration. So wanted to
[6:12:04] pass that on. Um as mentioned earlier to
[6:12:07] yeah I was at Discovery Night in Three
[6:12:08] Hills last Wednesday. Um, Reef King, you
[6:12:11] might know more eventually with the
[6:12:13] numbers when when Mr. Stewart has them.
[6:12:15] Every year it just seems like there's
[6:12:17] more people. I don't that's not an
[6:12:18] accurate, but that's just my guess. Uh,
[6:12:20] very well attended, young to seniors,
[6:12:24] all age groups. So, again, thanks to to
[6:12:27] FCSS for the for the work they do on
[6:12:29] that. Um, lunch with friends was there
[6:12:31] serving um, barbecue and yeah, it was
[6:12:34] uh, the museum was there with ice cream
[6:12:36] and so yeah, it was just a really really
[6:12:37] great night again. So, thanks to
[6:12:39] everybody for that. And just to let you
[6:12:41] know, we were to have police advisory in
[6:12:42] August. And just due to a couple of the
[6:12:44] members being away, it was delayed until
[6:12:46] September 11th, which is next week. No,
[6:12:49] this week. This week, this Thursday,
[6:12:51] what day is it? So, yeah, if anybody has
[6:12:53] any questions or comments or wants to
[6:12:55] pass anything on, I will have that
[6:12:57] meeting on Thursday night. So, awesome.
[6:12:59] Thank you.
[6:13:00] >> Okay. Thank you for that, Councelor
[6:13:01] » Okay. Thank you for that, Councelor
[6:13:02] Cunningham. Any comments or questions?
[6:13:07] If not, we'll go on to 9.3,
[6:13:11] which is community futures, and that's
[6:13:13] councelor Christie.
[6:13:14] >> There you go. I didn't get the executive
[6:13:17] » There you go. I didn't get the executive
[6:13:17] summary into this council meeting
[6:13:18] agenda, but it'll be in next week's or
[6:13:20] the two weeks from now. Um, the
[6:13:23] highlight is community futures, heart of
[6:13:26] the community, third or yeah, third
[6:13:28] quarter closed. There was 47 nominations
[6:13:31] and representing 26 businesses in the
[6:13:34] northwest corner of that of the
[6:13:37] community futures area. So that's Bazano
[6:13:39] to us north. So we'll make an evaluation
[6:13:42] the first part of October on who won
[6:13:44] that quarter, but the nominations are
[6:13:46] now open for the fourth quarter which is
[6:13:48] the southeast or southwest corner of
[6:13:51] community futures boundaries.
[6:13:54] So, if there's any questions from the
[6:13:55] executive report, I gave it all to
[6:13:57] council now, but it was kind of short
[6:13:59] notice, but our meeting was last
[6:14:00] Thursday night, and I've been kind of
[6:14:01] busy since then.
[6:14:04] >> I have no idea what would have been
[6:14:05] » I have no idea what would have been
[6:14:05] keeping you busy.
[6:14:09] >> Uh, that that was uh wasn't that 9.5 the
[6:14:12] » Uh, that that was uh wasn't that 9.5 the
[6:14:12] harvest report.
[6:14:15] Haven't heard anything today is good
[6:14:19] enough. All right. Um, moving on to 9.4.
[6:14:22] four which is division one and that's
[6:14:25] you deputy re McGee.
[6:14:27] >> Thank you. And it's not really division
[6:14:28] » Thank you. And it's not really division
[6:14:28] one. I should have just said uh deputy
[6:14:31] reev report. Um I had taken a personal
[6:14:35] day to uh go do some tourism activities
[6:14:40] myself and came across some data I
[6:14:42] wanted to share with you. I've passed it
[6:14:44] on to Carolyn to bring up on our screen.
[6:14:47] I stopped at the Kirks alpaca farm. They
[6:14:51] collected data for just this last three
[6:14:53] months.
[6:14:54] >> Wow.
[6:14:55] » Wow.
[6:14:55] >> And what you see on this screen is all
[6:14:57] » And what you see on this screen is all
[6:14:57] the pins on her map of where all her
[6:14:59] visitors have come from.
[6:15:02] >> Um she also boy she has passion and it's
[6:15:05] » Um she also boy she has passion and it's
[6:15:06] very exciting. I'm very excited to be
[6:15:09] promoting community and what egg is all
[6:15:11] about. I um also had a good visit with
[6:15:16] her. She asked if I had time as a deputy
[6:15:18] reev and so I did and she uh just wanted
[6:15:22] to give accolades to our economic
[6:15:25] development team. They have been really
[6:15:28] um helpful and in her advancing her
[6:15:31] business and she's just um really
[6:15:34] thrilled with where she's come. So uh I
[6:15:37] just thought you would like to see this
[6:15:38] data. It's it's an great interesting
[6:15:41] way. So, she's got this poster up in her
[6:15:44] in her building and welcomes people to
[6:15:46] put a pin on it. And that's um it's
[6:15:49] impressive. Very impressive.
[6:15:59] So, if you don't think people from all
[6:16:01] over the world come to visit Alberta,
[6:16:06] you soon find out differently.
[6:16:08] >> And this is rural Alberta.
[6:16:10] » And this is rural Alberta.
[6:16:10] >> Yeah. I don't know for some people
[6:16:15] » Yeah. I don't know for some people
[6:16:15] >> better comment.
[6:16:20] » Nope. That's all I have to say.
[6:16:22] >> Um and apologize. This just through the
[6:16:24] » Um and apologize. This just through the
[6:16:24] even you don't have to except if you're
[6:16:26] not. Um it just reminded me when we had
[6:16:28] the presentation earlier. We were
[6:16:29] talking about recycled
[6:16:31] um solar panels and I said last meeting
[6:16:32] that I would give a quick report. Is it
[6:16:35] okay if I do it now or I didn't put my
[6:16:38] hand up though?
[6:16:38] >> Oh, I think we I think we quite easily
[6:16:41] » Oh, I think we I think we quite easily
[6:16:41] accept that
[6:16:42] >> condition. I'll make it very quick. Um
[6:16:46] » condition. I'll make it very quick. Um
[6:16:46] things are going along relatively
[6:16:48] smoothly. Um we awarded a new contract
[6:16:52] for the landfill operation services and
[6:16:53] that's up on the hill pushing the
[6:16:55] pushing the garbage down and whatnot.
[6:16:57] And um I'll say it wrong, but it's
[6:16:59] Ambiipara. They're actually a Brazilian
[6:17:01] company that's got the contract. Um, and
[6:17:05] not not the cheapest. Um, but some of
[6:17:07] the stuff that they offered, I was not
[6:17:09] part of that selection committee. Um,
[6:17:11] they are putting in grizzly mats. So, a
[6:17:14] grizzly mat is something that lays on
[6:17:16] the garbage.
[6:17:17] >> So, you don't need as much. And we've
[6:17:19] » So, you don't need as much. And we've
[6:17:19] been talking about this for the late
[6:17:20] last eight years that I've been on solid
[6:17:21] waste, buying them, and so we don't have
[6:17:23] to buy them. They're going to do it
[6:17:24] themselves. And so, it saves us buying
[6:17:27] dirt to lay on top because it's covered
[6:17:30] up. they lay these grizzly mats on and
[6:17:34] um so that was very positive on their um
[6:17:38] application as well as they're going to
[6:17:39] keep the staff that we already have up
[6:17:41] there which is a private contractor but
[6:17:43] that's up to them. Um we
[6:17:47] have completed with a few amendments the
[6:17:49] workplace violence and harassment
[6:17:51] prevention plan and just to let you know
[6:17:53] um but we're a small um commission down
[6:17:56] there workplace. So the staff if they
[6:18:00] ever have trouble with their manager um
[6:18:03] they have to go to the board chair or to
[6:18:04] the vice chair. Just so you know that's
[6:18:06] where we've covered some of that stuff.
[6:18:08] Um
[6:18:10] we the landfill inspection was done um
[6:18:14] costing $65,000.
[6:18:16] Um and we got to do more on the gas. Oh,
[6:18:19] sorry. It was done and we have to spend
[6:18:21] $65,000 on more gas monitoring now. It's
[6:18:25] crazy. New mandates are continually
[6:18:27] coming up. It's
[6:18:30] so ready. Huh? That's another thing.
[6:18:32] Exactly. Um, but what you have to
[6:18:35] remember is back in the day l Anfield is
[6:18:37] built very clay base and so you didn't
[6:18:39] have to put a lining in it and so now
[6:18:43] for be for good practices we're doing
[6:18:46] that. So because we're in a valley not
[6:18:48] like the county one it's on flat they
[6:18:50] fill up the different valleys and of
[6:18:52] course one runs into the next one. So
[6:18:54] now we're having to do some work. It
[6:18:56] hasn't been mandated to us, but it's
[6:18:58] just good practice so that down the road
[6:18:59] there's not a huge
[6:19:02] expense that is is um put on. So we are
[6:19:05] putting a liner in between the two cells
[6:19:07] where they run together. So any runoff
[6:19:09] goes into them and runs down to our
[6:19:10] collection pond. So just another
[6:19:12] expense. Um we are staying within the
[6:19:15] budget and everything. Um we also need a
[6:19:18] burm. There was a burm that was somehow
[6:19:20] dismantled years ago. The water runs can
[6:19:23] off the hill, but it can't just keep
[6:19:24] running. It has to catch in a burm and
[6:19:26] run around to catchments. And it's just
[6:19:28] um requirements.
[6:19:31] Um we are having trouble with battery
[6:19:33] fires, and I brought this up before the
[6:19:35] last one. Um the payloader, it ignited
[6:19:39] it, of course, when they're pushing
[6:19:40] garbage. Um then lithium batteries are
[6:19:44] the ones. And so in the manual, it says
[6:19:47] you need to drown them. You need to
[6:19:48] drown these batteries, stop them from
[6:19:50] burning. Well, they found out with some
[6:19:52] of these lithium batteries, they come
[6:19:54] back to life once they dry out and they
[6:19:56] continue. But that's what's in the
[6:19:58] manual. So, our new practices down there
[6:20:00] is it's sand these the batteries now in
[6:20:04] our own. So, the province is changing
[6:20:06] some of that wording I guess in that
[6:20:08] they must go into sand. So, they have to
[6:20:09] be collected. But, we are having a lot
[6:20:11] of problem. Luckily, our guys up top are
[6:20:14] are on top of it immediately as soon as
[6:20:16] they see a little smolder there because
[6:20:18] we do not want to fire as you've seen in
[6:20:20] some of the other municipal um
[6:20:22] landfills. Um the egg plastic pilot
[6:20:25] program ends here at the end of
[6:20:26] December. Um don't get mad. We're going
[6:20:29] to continue to collect them because
[6:20:31] there will be a program in place. We
[6:20:33] don't know what it is right now. We were
[6:20:35] one of the pilots um locations and I'm
[6:20:38] pretty sure we'll become a permanent
[6:20:40] program. um site I should say when the
[6:20:42] permanent program comes in on January
[6:20:44] 1st. Most of the bags right now are
[6:20:46] going to Bashor but if you drive by
[6:20:48] Bashor there's a massive pile up there.
[6:20:50] So there's but we will continue to um
[6:20:53] collect them. Um the budget we've caught
[6:20:56] up the 2024 books are at the auditors.
[6:20:58] So hopefully we'll have them by our octo
[6:21:01] our last meeting here in October before
[6:21:02] the change in in um who sits at the
[6:21:06] table. So now to solar panels,
[6:21:11] if you have a solar panel at home and
[6:21:14] something go, we all have the little
[6:21:16] ones on at holiday trailers and whatnot.
[6:21:18] Um, we as an electronics recycling
[6:21:21] collection location and there's multiple
[6:21:23] around the community. So I know there's
[6:21:24] a little one in carbon too, but they all
[6:21:26] come to the drum. We will continue to
[6:21:29] take them because it's just smaller
[6:21:31] amounts. But anything to do with
[6:21:33] industry, we are not collecting period.
[6:21:35] and we have not up till now we send them
[6:21:38] on to Armor which is the Alberta
[6:21:40] Recycling Management Board. Um and they
[6:21:43] have to deal with it because don't be
[6:21:45] right there's a lot
[6:21:47] >> there's a lot damaged in transit even
[6:21:49] » there's a lot damaged in transit even
[6:21:50] being built there's a lot. So um but if
[6:21:54] you have one at home you can still bring
[6:21:56] it in for recycling. We do still collect
[6:21:58] them. anything that has a cord, the
[6:22:01] electronic recycling um program, we
[6:22:04] collect all that stuff, but nothing to
[6:22:06] do with industry at this point. And I
[6:22:09] don't know if we ever will.
[6:22:15] » And sorry, um there's not necess
[6:22:21] is offering for the drum hella. We do
[6:22:23] get our minutes. They're always behind.
[6:22:25] But um we're just trying to work out
[6:22:27] what the drum the town of Drum Hala is
[6:22:29] going to continue to do on the
[6:22:30] administration side for the landfill.
[6:22:45] » Okay. Well, thank you for that.
[6:22:48] Are there any other um
[6:22:53] anybody else wanting to jump in?
[6:22:57] Um
[6:22:59] maybe what I would do is beg your
[6:23:01] indulgence and we'll just talk about the
[6:23:03] central zone meeting that happened here
[6:23:06] um Friday. And just a reminder that
[6:23:08] there is a um central to zone general
[6:23:12] meeting coming up and I did send you all
[6:23:15] an email uh related to that. Um and I'm
[6:23:19] sure you probably all lost it, but it's
[6:23:21] October the 3 and it's uh feeasant back
[6:23:27] golf club I think in in um Lome County I
[6:23:31] think maybe is where it's at.
[6:23:36] Um,
[6:23:39] so I mean everybody's busy, everybody's
[6:23:41] doing different things. It was um one
[6:23:44] thing that really jumped out at me was
[6:23:46] came out of Big Horn and uh the the
[6:23:50] Reeve there was telling us that they
[6:23:52] just have a new operations facility that
[6:23:55] they opened and it's a net zero building
[6:23:59] and they got a million dollar grant from
[6:24:01] FCM in order to make that net zero
[6:24:04] building happen
[6:24:06] and so they just uh got that thing
[6:24:08] opened. Um county here has some new and
[6:24:13] interesting things happening on their um
[6:24:17] land use bylaw and MDP and they've
[6:24:20] created a
[6:24:22] egg nonresidential
[6:24:26] designation in their land use. So it's a
[6:24:29] way of preserving egg land. So they
[6:24:31] allow they didn't up till now they've
[6:24:33] never allowed this previously but they
[6:24:35] now allow two subdivisions on a quarter
[6:24:38] and the remnant
[6:24:40] and To get that second subdivision, they
[6:24:42] have to do an area structure plan
[6:24:46] and they have to they're looking at this
[6:24:49] egg non-residential for the remnant. So
[6:24:53] >> red deer
[6:24:55] » red deer
[6:24:55] >> very interesting very
[6:24:58] » very interesting very
[6:24:58] >> and the goal is to preserve farmland.
[6:25:05] So
[6:25:07] just a
[6:25:10] so just a couple of things and of course
[6:25:13] um you know our friend uh Paul from
[6:25:16] Pinoa County he talked about the fact
[6:25:18] that um in Canada I think it's $4.2 2
[6:25:22] billion to the gross domestic product
[6:25:25] for steel whereas canola is 44 43.7
[6:25:30] billion
[6:25:33] and he talked about uh $51 billion in
[6:25:36] car production and the amount of support
[6:25:38] that's going on equally.
[6:25:42] So anyway, just couple of little tidbits
[6:25:45] from that meeting.
[6:25:52] Anyway, um if there is no questions or
[6:25:55] anything else, I would take a motion to
[6:25:58] accept for information. Councelor
[6:25:59] Cunningham.
[6:26:00] >> I'll move the council accepts for
[6:26:02] » I'll move the council accepts for
[6:26:02] information the council and committee
[6:26:03] reports as presented.
[6:26:05] >> All right. All those in favor and that's
[6:26:09] » All right. All those in favor and that's
[6:26:09] carried unanimously.
[6:26:11] And then one of our more fun events
[6:26:13] which would be the council followup
[6:26:15] action list.
[6:26:22] one of the things we do regularly that
[6:26:24] Mr. Zir really appreciates and loves
[6:26:28] and um the only thing I'm going to say
[6:26:31] uh related to that is um thank you to
[6:26:36] Nhill County and administration and all
[6:26:38] those involved in getting the Buffalo
[6:26:40] Jump Road reserviced. It's an amazing
[6:26:44] little piece of roadway. Thank you.
[6:26:49] Speed still 80 kilometers an hour. We
[6:26:52] did not upgrade the speed limit.
[6:26:55] >> Councelor Christie, the speed limit
[6:26:57] » Councelor Christie, the speed limit
[6:26:57] still 80 km an hour.
[6:27:00] >> Hey, come on. Last night I waited three
[6:27:01] » Hey, come on. Last night I waited three
[6:27:02] times for trucks and they told me we're
[6:27:03] going slow
[6:27:06] and one of them was deer hunting.
[6:27:09] >> Yeah. Running over.
[6:27:15] » Okay. Any questions on the council
[6:27:19] action items?
[6:27:24] I don't see any. So, I would accept a
[6:27:26] motion to accept. Councelor Christie,
[6:27:30] >> I so moved.
[6:27:31] » I so moved.
[6:27:31] >> Okay. So, I have a motion to accept the
[6:27:33] » Okay. So, I have a motion to accept the
[6:27:34] council follow-up action list as
[6:27:35] presented.
[6:27:37] All those in favor?
[6:27:39] And that's carried unanimously. Thank
[6:27:42] you.
[6:27:43] So next item in our agenda is close
[6:27:46] session. We have two items that I know
[6:27:49] of in close session. One is third party
[6:27:51] business under access to information act
[6:27:55] section 19 and the second one is
[6:27:58] intergovernmental relations section 26
[6:28:02] under the access to information act. I
[6:28:05] would entertain a motion to go into
[6:28:08] close session.
[6:28:14] Uh, I think that was all of council.
[6:28:18] Councelor Phobes, thank you. We'll
[6:28:20] designate you. All those in favor
[6:28:23] and that motion scared unanimous. Thank
[6:28:25] you.
[6:28:28] >> One minute break.
[6:28:29] » One minute break.
[6:28:29] >> Yes, let's take the one minute break.
[6:28:31] » Yes, let's take the one minute break.
[6:28:31] >> Let's take two. I don't think I can get
[6:28:33] » Let's take two. I don't think I can get
[6:28:33] there. Okay. Somebody asked for two.
[7:22:37] Okay. Um it's 3:29.
[7:22:41] Um we had a motion to come out of close
[7:22:43] session at 3:27. We recessed briefly to
[7:22:47] allow the return of the public. It's now
[7:22:50] 3:29. I'll call our meeting back to
[7:22:52] order. We're in close session for two
[7:22:54] items under third party business section
[7:22:57] 19 and intergovernmental relations
[7:23:00] section 26. There are no motions coming
[7:23:03] forward from close session.
[7:23:06] And the next item of business is motion
[7:23:09] to adjourn at 3:29. We are adjourned.