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Good evening. Uh, I, my brain is totally blinking

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right now. I would like to call this regular, uh, scheduled meeting of the planning and zoning commission

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to order the time is 6:30 pm on april 14th.

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uh, may I have a roll call, please? Copeland? Here. Webb? Here.

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segel here. Kin here. Cfet. Houck.

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hildreth.

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richard, can you hear us on online?

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I wonder? Uh, we might be muted. This is,

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are we muted on

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hildreth? I'm ready. Yeah, I'm ready. Alright, perfect.

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so we do have a quorum. Um, I would like to extend a welcome to our new commissioner

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who's joining us virtually today. Thank you for your service and, uh,

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looking forward to working with you. Uh, first item on our agenda is

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approval of minutes. So consider approval of the planning and zoning commission's february 24th, 2026.

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regular meeting minutes. We need a motion. And second on this

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madam chair, motion to approve the planning and zoning commission. February 24th, 2026.

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regular meeting. Minutes second. Okay. We have a motion to approve from commissioner

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copeland and a second from vice chair stegel. Is there any discussion on that?

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all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed? Na.

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perfect. We've got our minutes. Next step is our citizen comment period.

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the planning and zoning commission welcomes comments from citizens early in the agenda of

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regular meetings. Speakers are provided with an opportunity to speak during this time

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period on any agenda item or any other matter concerning city business,

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and they must observe the three minute time limit. So, at this time, I will open citizen

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comments and seeing none.

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well, hang on. Someone's walking into the building. I'm just gonna

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give it a minute. Oh, nevermind. Seeing none, we will keep moving.

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first up, we have our consider impossible action items.

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so, first is consider and make recommendation to the city council regarding

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a request by john hall, for exceptions from chapter 41, subdivisions

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of the city's code of ordinances related to detention, drainage, flood mitigation,

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and sidewalks for the property located at 200 veterans drive, kyle,

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texas 7, 8 6. This

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2015, the requested exceptions

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include one, an exception from section 41 dash four,

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watershed and flood prevention to wave requirements for a detention pond and

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trickle channel two, an exception from section 41

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dash 1 34. General requirements to allow

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alternative culvert specifications. Three, an exception

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from section 41 dash 1 43 a one

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sidewalks to eliminate installation of new sidewalks along veterans drive,

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eliminate sidewalks along barbie street from wood street to veterans drive,

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wave sidewalk crossings over drainage ditches, and reduce the

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minimum sidewalk width from five feet to four feet.

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mr. Lutz?

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uh, yes. Good evening, chairman, commissioners. Um, so tonight, um, have a couple

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of variances for you. Um, I'm gonna let the, uh, presentation get loaded

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up. Um, that way it'll give me a reference point. Um, there's quite a few items to go through.

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um, so tonight we will do this a little bit, uh, differently. Um, because there

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are so many requests, uh, I would like to go through my entire presentation,

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um, kind of recommendations, and then we will circle back and visit

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each one of those requests individually. Um, it'll be at that point on each

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one of those items that, that mr. Hall can come and present his findings. Um,

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and then once we kind of do that, we will go through and make our motions. Uh, we would like

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request that we do separate motions for each item, um, just as a little cleaner and easier for

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staff to get those minutes, uh, forwarded on to counsel. So, uh, again,

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um, I'm gonna talk fast. There's a lot of information, so we just hold questions till

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the end. Um, that would be appreciated.

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okay. So, uh, property location, um, veterans drive, blanco

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and barbie street. Um, so this, this triangle, again, the applicant

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is constructed approximately 1500 square foot professional office.

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um, planning zoning commission did review a conditional use permit, uh, for this,

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uh, uh, as it's in the veteran's drive overlay district. That was done may 28th, 2024.

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um, the applicant is requesting several exceptions from city code, uh, from the

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city subdivision ordinance. Um, we did not reque, uh, receive

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documentation at the time of sub packet submittal, but mr. Hall has provided you

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some comments and some information tonight. Um, and then he'll go through those

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and he'll, you'll have a chance to answer, uh, ask him some questions.

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um, so what we're looking at is, um, several requested

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variances, um, an exception from section 41 40 watershed and

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floodplain prevention, um, to grave requirements for required detention, pond

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and trickle channel. Um, we're looking at exception from section 41

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dash 1 34 general requirements, uh, to allow alternative culvert

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specifications. Uh, we're also looking at exception from section 41

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dash 1 43. Um, this is regarding sidewalks. Uh, there's four

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separate distinct, uh, items there. Eliminate new sidewalks along veterans,

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uh, eliminate sidewalks along barbie street from woods to veterans. Wave the

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sidewalk crossing requirements over those drainage district ditches, and then reduce the minimum

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sidewalk width from four feet to five feet. Um, so what I've done is kind

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of broken these down into three main requests, uh, uh, requests.

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and so we'll tackle 'em that way based on the section of code. Um, so the request

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number one is waiver of requirements of a detention pond and trickle channel.

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again, city code, state law require properties to mitigate any additional impervious

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cover or runoff associated with their development. There's multiple ways

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they can do that. Um, uh, that section 41 10 outline

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standards and specifications, um, that may be used to meet these requirements.

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um, and then in this case, uh, the trickle channels and detention ponds are required

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for flood mitigation based on current city code. So when we look at

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request one a, um, detention ponds, um, they are not

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always required. As I mentioned, there are, uh, other options to,

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to kind of meet state requirements to handle runoff. Um, dos can be

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done through things such as low impact development or lid. Um, some of you're familiar with

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that. Um, these things can be rain gardens, bio bioswells, or other

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approved engineering practices. Um, staff, um, presented available

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options to the applicant regarding those alternative compliance options. Um, the

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applicant indicated to staff they do not wish to utilize those lid, um, options

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for their own various reasons. Um, so he's asking to waive the, the pond requirement.

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um, there are no alternative options, um,

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for the trickle channel. Um, uh, when we look at that,

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um, I'm sorry, and I'll get, I'm jumping ahead of myself. Um,

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so request one b of this same section is the trickle channel. Uh,

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trickle channels are required where the slope of the property is

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very shallow. Um, this allows or, uh, helps move the water

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from one area to another. Again, I'm not the engineer, so we do have staff

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engineer if you want details on that. Um, just, um, keep

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your questions from me, kind of process and requirements, and then I'll turn it over to staff

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if we need to get into details. Um, so the applicant is requesting

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exception to waive the trickle channel for the portion of the property extending from the detention

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pond area to their proposed driveway. Um, currently there are no alternative

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compliance options available for this requirement, so staff does not support this exception.

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um, so here on this image is kind of a breakdown of the first, um, request.

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so the detention pond location is in red. Um, there is a

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proposed trickle channel in green. You'll see this one. This is the one the applicant is

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requesting to wave. Um, there is a second trickle channel to the south

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on this plan set, um, highlighted in blue. Um, this

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was, um, provided by the applicant. This is their approved plans. However,

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the city has undertaken some road improvement projects on veterans. Um,

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we are changing the way water is flowing across his property

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slightly. Um, so in order to mitigate that, staff supported

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that we would build that as a, as a future cip project. We would waive that requirement

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from him since we were having some effect, um, on his development.

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um, going into exception request number two, this is approval of alternative

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culvert specifications. So our code does allow for alternative culvert,

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pipe sizes, materials, uh, um, as long as the proper,

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uh, engineering documentation is submitted, reviewed, and approved by staff.

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um, so staff did inform the applicant that the requested modifications could be supported,

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um, provided that we had updated plans and supporting engineering document, uh,

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documentation, um, uh, that these plans do need to be supported.

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um, at this time, the applicant, um, had concerns about having to

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reengage and engineer and updating those. Um, so they would like to, to waive

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the requirement for, um, updating that documentation

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would like to use what they're proposing.

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so this is kind of the map of exception area two. These are the culverts that you'll

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see connect across or underneath the driveway. Um, that is that location

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there. And then the exception request

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three. Um, there's actually four of these. Well, I'll touch base on all

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of them. These are all sidewalks. Um, starting with request three a.

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um, so his, the request is to eliminate new sidewalk along

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veterans drive. I do wanna point out that there is an existing sidewalk there.

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um, it just does not meet our minimum, uh, sidewalk width, uh, requirements.

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um, we require five foot sidewalks along all property boundaries. Um,

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staff did work with the applicant as part of their site development review and

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agreed to not require that sidewalk to be ripped up and

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replaced. Um, and then, um, this group

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approved that sidewalk kind of deviation as part of their cup.

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uh, but staff wanted to bring this forward today just as part of these other variances. Let's

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just go ahead and, and run that through, through the process. Um, so this is something we, we

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can support to maintain the existing sidewalk, um, in the area.

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uh, exception three b is to eliminate sidewalks along barbie street from

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wood street to veterans drive. So as part of our roadway improvements along veterans,

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this small section of road that kind of comes along barbie behind mr. Hall's property

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and then connects, um, at the intersection, um,

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right where the restaurant kind of, uh, back parking lot is,

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that road is actually gonna be a abandoned, um, we're not gonna connect that

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through. So that driveway will now connect straight to veterans. Um, so staff can

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support the, the waiver of sidewalks on that portion of mr. Hall's property.

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um, and again, I'll have a map, we'll, we'll go through that, um, here in a second,

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uh, exception request three c, um, was to waive sidewalk requirement

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crossings over the drainage ditches. Um, so again, mr. Hall is a, a triangular

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property. Um, it's all open ditch drainage on each side. So to, to cross

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the sidewalks and connect, you have to, to do a small pedestrian bridge, in

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essence, across those areas. Um, when we looked at this, uh, because

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it's a connection for sidewalks, um, staff cannot, you know, support that.

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um, p pedestrians connectivity is, is an issue for us. Um,

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creating gaps, um, could be an issue as well. Um, staff did

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want to highlight that kyle elementary school has discontinued, uh, bus service

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to hometown kyle and surrounding areas as part of their, as part of their budget makeup.

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um, so, um, we, we are seeing an increased amount of pedestrians

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kids coming from kind of the west side of veterans in all those residential neighborhoods. And

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we anticipate that that, um, traffic to, to

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increase. So at this time, staff does, does not recommend or support, um, this waiver exception.

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and then the final one is to reduce the minimum sidewalk widths from five feet to four

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feet. Again, minimum sidewalk width is five feet from city code. Um,

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again, we have a increase of pedestrian activity. Um,

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additionally reducing a sidewalk width may necessitate the installation of passing areas at regular

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intervals. So, um, toss has some language in there that at

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so many intervals of feet, you have to create a passing lane where two wheelchairs could safely

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pass, um, based on the minimum kind of size for passing

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and clearance. Um, staff again, does not recommend a waiver of this

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exception because this is our standard and we don't find a, a hardship, um,

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on this one. So when we looked at the exception request number

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three, um, again, this is kind of the layout. The red areas

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on this image here would be sidewalks that would have the reduction from

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five to four, the green areas, the existing sidewalk,

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that that would remain, that staff supports, um, not having to rip up, uh,

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existing infrastructure. The orange section to the south is the section

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along the roadway that, that, that road is actually going to be closed. Um,

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so we would support the waiver of that area. And then the light blue or

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the sidewalk, uh, kind of pedestrian crossings. Um, so you can see connecting,

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uh, the veterans drive over to the blanco, um, section, and then

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it would cross back over. Um, and then again, once the gaps

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down the road would have to be future cip, um, projects, or if those properties

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redeveloped, um, as at any point in the future that would trigger.

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um, so again, I have my recommendations. I'll go through those, um,

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you know, shortly after we kind of get into the, um, um, the requests.

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uh, but I'd like to give mr. Hall an opportunity to kind of come back. Lost audio?

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nope. Um,

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can you hear me, sir?

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one second.

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test one. Can you hear me, sir? Okay. Not good. Alright. Um,

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so I will kick back to the very first set of requests. Uh, I'll leave it up

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on the, on kind of one of these images. If, if y'all like, just let me know.

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um, but I'm gonna turn it over to mr. Hall. Um, you can ask him questions again, if it's very

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specific technical. Um, leon barbs into engineers here. Um,

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if you wanna, you know, get into those details more than welcome, um, if

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it's general process or reasoning, um, either subdivision

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or site plan or development, please address those to me. So, mr. Hall, I'll

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give you the floor. Sir, would you mind leaving the screen on the map? Yes, sir.

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thanks.

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uh, to the wizards in the back, um, if you could help me, um, move to,

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I guess, this last image that shows all the sidewalks,

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um, request d, yet this one may work for

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thank you. Appreciate it.

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and, uh, basically what we're trying to do is develop a small,

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irregular, highly irregular lot that for years was, uh,

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languishing here in the community, and we took over that lot, uh, clearing

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00:16:33,805 --> 00:16:37,765
it. Uh, one of the things I found, you'll find this in your handout, we found that there was

218
00:16:37,885 --> 00:16:41,435
like a, a hollowed out place where, where young people were

219
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drinking beer and, and huffing, uh, paint and glue and, and other drug paraphernalia.

220
00:16:46,975 --> 00:16:50,625
tried to clear this up. And I think we've done a fairly good job on it. Uh,

221
00:16:51,155 --> 00:16:54,645
pleased to, to be able to, to work in this area and upon these things.

222
00:16:55,305 --> 00:16:58,945
uh, this is the, uh, barbie side of the, the property barbie

223
00:16:59,365 --> 00:17:03,365
street side of the property. And, uh, here's the

224
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ditch that has become quite the center of so much controversy. And I look

225
00:17:07,645 --> 00:17:11,425
at this ditch. This is a gentle, friendly, almost not

226
00:17:11,685 --> 00:17:15,685
a ditch. When we purchased this property, we looked at that and said, oh, that's no

227
00:17:15,805 --> 00:17:19,765
big deal. That's, uh, that's, uh, gentle, friendly

228
00:17:20,215 --> 00:17:24,045
piece of land that we can easily put in, a simple drive in as so many have

229
00:17:24,245 --> 00:17:28,035
been done along center street and throughout the community. Uh, just

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a, a nice little place to put a nice little

231
00:17:32,565 --> 00:17:35,485
office. And, uh, by the time

232
00:17:36,585 --> 00:17:40,525
the city worked with our engineers, it turned into this situation,

233
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which basically indicates the whole ditch is to be dug up and

234
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replaced with concrete reinforced concrete pipe and, and,

235
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uh, all kinds of paraphernalia that, uh, you know, it's not

236
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probably that natural to, to dig up a nice, nice little area and, and put, uh,

237
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this rcp reinforced concrete pipe, which is pretty unusual

238
00:18:02,125 --> 00:18:05,265
because our property is fed by two

239
00:18:07,855 --> 00:18:11,475
steel pipes from the city, both coming from,

240
00:18:11,865 --> 00:18:15,245
uh, under one 50, which is veterans drive.

241
00:18:16,145 --> 00:18:20,105
and they're, they're steel pipes and they're smaller than the pipes that we plan to put in. And

242
00:18:20,325 --> 00:18:23,465
so there should never be any kind of a drainage problem. The, uh,

243
00:18:24,725 --> 00:18:28,325
reinforced concrete pipe, very dangerous to handle, very hard to maintain,

244
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very hard to, to put into place, and it doesn't

245
00:18:35,025 --> 00:18:38,685
really look that good after a little bit of use.

246
00:18:40,665 --> 00:18:41,725
and I have some pictures here

247
00:18:47,115 --> 00:18:50,525
somehow. Rcp

248
00:18:51,325 --> 00:18:55,105
reinforced concrete pipe here is a section that apparently the water got

249
00:18:55,355 --> 00:18:59,085
into it and eroded it from the bottom, aided it out, dissolved the asphalt on top.

250
00:19:03,105 --> 00:19:06,405
I'm kind of nonplus of why the city is taking such an adverse

251
00:19:07,365 --> 00:19:10,925
reaction to using a steel pipe, because this is pipe.

252
00:19:11,605 --> 00:19:13,065
I took these pictures january 20,

253
00:19:15,865 --> 00:19:17,315
pardon me, january 29th, 2026,

254
00:19:20,505 --> 00:19:23,565
and january 28th, 2026 along veterans drive

255
00:19:25,305 --> 00:19:28,975
within walking distance of our project. Steel, steel, steel,

256
00:19:29,335 --> 00:19:31,835
steel. It's, it's very common application.

257
00:19:33,465 --> 00:19:37,125
so there's no reason we should not be able to use steel pipe there.

258
00:19:40,165 --> 00:19:43,995
I apologize. The city has a, a long

259
00:19:44,345 --> 00:19:47,965
use of steel pipe and it's, there's nothing wrong with it. Very good application.

260
00:19:49,025 --> 00:19:53,005
and, uh, as opposed to having the junk that I just showed you, I much prefer to put

261
00:19:53,165 --> 00:19:56,625
that in place. So we are asking that, uh,

262
00:19:58,465 --> 00:20:02,155
we be able to use a steel pipe. The pipe that drains into

263
00:20:02,625 --> 00:20:05,895
barbie, it's an 18 inch steel pipe coming under

264
00:20:06,985 --> 00:20:10,665
one 50, and we propose to have two

265
00:20:11,335 --> 00:20:15,285
eight inch steel pipes to drain the ditch. And I have

266
00:20:15,405 --> 00:20:19,145
given all of the, the math work to, uh,

267
00:20:19,865 --> 00:20:23,845
to the city, and I do not see that there's any need in deploying

268
00:20:24,205 --> 00:20:27,845
an engineer to, to, to stamp that. There's no need.

269
00:20:29,365 --> 00:20:33,245
I think it stands common sense that two 18 inch pipes can handle

270
00:20:33,705 --> 00:20:37,585
one 18 inch pipe. I don't think that needs any engineering work. I beg

271
00:20:37,805 --> 00:20:39,285
the city to allow me that variance

272
00:20:43,345 --> 00:20:47,285
on the retention pond. There is not

273
00:20:47,405 --> 00:20:51,205
a retention pond for this building. There is not a retention

274
00:20:51,435 --> 00:20:55,285
pond for the gigantic impervious parking lot that the

275
00:20:55,485 --> 00:20:59,085
city built next door. There's not a retention pond for the post office.

276
00:21:00,375 --> 00:21:03,605
mutts and puffs on and on and off.

277
00:21:04,755 --> 00:21:08,485
putting a retention pond in in our property, I feel is a,

278
00:21:08,985 --> 00:21:12,965
is a public nuisance because it can stand for a place for children to get in and drown,

279
00:21:13,785 --> 00:21:17,525
as been talked about, on and on. There are a stool of kids walking

280
00:21:17,825 --> 00:21:21,765
by here all the time. If it does still out of water, it becomes an attractive nuisance for some

281
00:21:21,975 --> 00:21:25,885
child of drowning. As it drains out, the retention of the moisture

282
00:21:28,315 --> 00:21:31,935
will create bugs and disease and other

283
00:21:32,355 --> 00:21:35,985
hazards. So I think it's just a really bad idea to put one in.

284
00:21:36,625 --> 00:21:40,565
and I, you know, when you talk to the city, they're always gonna say it's a law. It's a law.

285
00:21:40,725 --> 00:21:44,685
it's a law. Yeah, maybe so, maybe, no, I don't really

286
00:21:44,805 --> 00:21:48,545
think it is. I've been a member of the bar for 39 years, texas bar,

287
00:21:49,275 --> 00:21:53,265
been a member of the federal bar for almost as long. I've just not really run

288
00:21:53,485 --> 00:21:57,485
across that. And I know if you drive around through mountain city oaks, mountain city,

289
00:21:58,105 --> 00:22:01,925
you won't find a single retention pond in there, the whole

290
00:22:02,155 --> 00:22:05,975
city. So according to staff

291
00:22:06,325 --> 00:22:10,085
legend or staff, whatever, you know, maybe they should all be imprisoned for

292
00:22:10,405 --> 00:22:13,045
breaking this drainage law. I don't see it.

293
00:22:14,545 --> 00:22:18,205
uh, the efficacy of these bonds, that's a matter of debate.

294
00:22:20,505 --> 00:22:24,365
in 1998, there was superintendent schools in cuero, texas. We had a flood that

295
00:22:24,605 --> 00:22:26,685
covered about a third of the city

296
00:22:28,645 --> 00:22:32,035
retention pots didn't do any good this past check, uh, july 4th,

297
00:22:33,685 --> 00:22:37,685
I have property in hunt texas, uh, riverfront property. And I can

298
00:22:37,805 --> 00:22:41,465
tell you retention ponds didn't do any good down there. 2020,

299
00:22:42,465 --> 00:22:46,125
uh, 2017 here in kyle, I don't know if you remember this, but from

300
00:22:46,795 --> 00:22:50,645
east one 50, all along towards west one 50, all of

301
00:22:50,805 --> 00:22:54,215
these retention ponds that run up on one 50, they all burst loose.

302
00:22:55,305 --> 00:22:59,165
so if there's a big rain, it doesn't do any good. If it's a small rain,

303
00:22:59,465 --> 00:23:03,305
it really doesn't make any difference. So I'm asking you not

304
00:23:03,525 --> 00:23:07,385
to make my project be ul and made a point of danger by

305
00:23:07,605 --> 00:23:11,585
having a retention platform. I'm asking to let me use, let

306
00:23:11,805 --> 00:23:15,645
us use pipes and steel pipes that are widely used in

307
00:23:15,845 --> 00:23:19,605
this community, widely used. And not just a long time

308
00:23:19,865 --> 00:23:21,925
ago, just january, I showed you january, 2026

309
00:23:24,325 --> 00:23:28,125
picture. So coming to you in good faith,

310
00:23:29,415 --> 00:23:33,365
we've been working hard to do a good job here. I don't know if you've, I haven't seen

311
00:23:33,445 --> 00:23:37,285
those in the building. Building is complete and it looks

312
00:23:37,485 --> 00:23:41,385
nice. It's nice inside. We come to this community not

313
00:23:41,605 --> 00:23:45,565
to be some kind of, we come here

314
00:23:46,225 --> 00:23:50,195
to try to, uh, help people to stay planning with

315
00:23:50,845 --> 00:23:54,685
everyday legal, legal needs. I'm not trying to put something

316
00:23:54,965 --> 00:23:58,875
over city. Just trying to ask for a little branch of help. Just

317
00:23:59,285 --> 00:24:01,365
a little bit of help. Just a little bit of

318
00:24:05,385 --> 00:24:06,835
how I power here.

319
00:24:16,305 --> 00:24:19,985
all right. Thank you, mr. Hall. Um, all right, commissioners. Um, I'll go ahead and

320
00:24:21,445 --> 00:24:25,325
I can go through kind of my recommendation or did y'all have some questions you want

321
00:24:25,565 --> 00:24:29,455
to ask before I go through that? I'll, I'll kind of leave that up to you if you'd madam

322
00:24:29,805 --> 00:24:33,805
chair, knowing that mr. Hals is gonna pack it over to us, could we have five minutes just to read it

323
00:24:33,925 --> 00:24:36,405
over to make sure we have knowledge to ask questions on?

324
00:24:38,145 --> 00:24:41,765
I'm comfortable with that. My mic's not on. I am comfortable

325
00:24:42,205 --> 00:24:46,125
with that. How does that work? Do I need to like, put a hold

326
00:24:46,285 --> 00:24:50,185
on the meeting or can we just sit here in silence for five minutes? Or e either way. Um,

327
00:24:50,985 --> 00:24:54,845
it might be behoove to have a recess. Recess and give everybody a little time on their own.

328
00:24:55,465 --> 00:24:59,265
um, did we get that packet digitally? I wanna make sure that richard on the screen got

329
00:24:59,485 --> 00:25:03,165
it as well. He did. I did not get the, the, the updated packet.

330
00:25:04,545 --> 00:25:08,485
uh, I also, I do have one question on this. What is the amount of impervious service

331
00:25:08,745 --> 00:25:12,585
of this property, uh, prior to

332
00:25:13,255 --> 00:25:16,545
prior to construction there? Uh, it's 100%. Um,

333
00:25:17,365 --> 00:25:21,165
I do not have the overall impervious cover, uh, numbers on this.

334
00:25:21,505 --> 00:25:25,465
uh, but I could try and look real quick and, and get you an answer, sir. Oh, mr. Hall

335
00:25:25,935 --> 00:25:29,785
looks like he's got an answer. The reason what I, what I'm, what I'm concerned about is the, the

336
00:25:30,005 --> 00:25:33,165
impervious surface. Uh, I'm a firm believer that

337
00:25:34,425 --> 00:25:38,005
any development needs needs to cover its own, you know, any, any drainage

338
00:25:38,525 --> 00:25:42,505
it creates. So the amount of imper service detention pond should, or

339
00:25:42,725 --> 00:25:45,445
detention systems should be at least equivalent to that.

340
00:25:46,825 --> 00:25:50,645
yes, sir. And that's, that is what our plans are reviewed to. Um, but if you'd like the exact number,

341
00:25:50,955 --> 00:25:54,805
just let me know. And I, I can try and do some, some quick, I can give you, I I just wanna

342
00:25:55,085 --> 00:25:57,125
make sure there's an equivalent there. Yes, sir. There is.

343
00:26:00,645 --> 00:26:04,645
meantime, it looks like kayla went to go scan that packet so we can get it over to richard. So if

344
00:26:04,765 --> 00:26:08,605
you wanna take a recess, we, that might be a good idea. I'd rather wait to do the recess

345
00:26:08,925 --> 00:26:12,365
until he gets it. So I guess in the meantime,

346
00:26:12,985 --> 00:26:16,105
um, are there any questions that we immediately want to ask,

347
00:26:17,295 --> 00:26:21,235
maybe a question on the process just to make sure we understand what

348
00:26:21,525 --> 00:26:25,445
we're taking a vote on. If I read the ordinance correctly,

349
00:26:25,885 --> 00:26:29,805
41 dash 10, what we would, should the planning and zoning commission

350
00:26:30,245 --> 00:26:34,165
tonight, grant, mr. Hall's exception, that would just be a recommendation

351
00:26:34,945 --> 00:26:38,805
to counsel, and counsel would take that final action. Is that correct? Yes, sir.

352
00:26:38,965 --> 00:26:42,605
every request tonight is recommendation only. Perfect. And then should

353
00:26:43,045 --> 00:26:46,885
this commission deny mr. Hall's re request, he still has an appeal

354
00:26:47,125 --> 00:26:51,125
option to counsel as well? Uh, it is not a an official denial. It is just

355
00:26:51,285 --> 00:26:55,205
recommendation for denial. So whether you recommend approval or denial, counsel ultimately has

356
00:26:55,365 --> 00:26:57,525
final, final approval on this matter? Yes, sir. Thank you, sir.

357
00:27:00,865 --> 00:27:04,865
one other question I have, what about is, is is there any process for,

358
00:27:05,385 --> 00:27:09,325
um, a waiver of protest for any future development or

359
00:27:09,765 --> 00:27:13,605
anything like that that, uh, you know, if, if it doesn't

360
00:27:13,885 --> 00:27:17,805
make sense to do something at one point in, but future development

361
00:27:18,285 --> 00:27:22,125
when they put in sidewalks, everybody does, does well smash? Is there anything, is there any type of process

362
00:27:22,865 --> 00:27:25,925
for a waiver of, uh, protests that could be done in this, in any of these?

363
00:27:27,025 --> 00:27:30,905
um, yes. Um, not quite in the terms. Um,

364
00:27:31,225 --> 00:27:35,135
you're utilizing, sir. We do have some alternative processes. So, um, again,

365
00:27:35,545 --> 00:27:39,405
one of 'em was, um, for sidewalks. Uh, there has

366
00:27:39,605 --> 00:27:43,425
been instances where, say a development is coming in, um,

367
00:27:43,785 --> 00:27:47,685
but the city is doing a road project six months down the road, we will allow

368
00:27:48,035 --> 00:27:51,925
fees in lieu of, um, for those sidewalk constructions and then that

369
00:27:52,165 --> 00:27:55,795
goes into a fund and we can can do those at a later date. Um, ideally

370
00:27:56,435 --> 00:28:00,005
we'd like to do that as part of the project. 'cause those are future cip projects

371
00:28:00,505 --> 00:28:04,305
and, and staff doesn't have control over those which projects get

372
00:28:04,725 --> 00:28:08,575
assigned and funded. Um, so it can kick the, can a little bit. But there, there

373
00:28:08,925 --> 00:28:12,845
are some options there, um, as well as alternative compliance for, say, detention

374
00:28:13,905 --> 00:28:17,555
runoff of and some of those other issues. Okay.

375
00:28:29,485 --> 00:28:33,405
actually one other idea too, to see if it, if, I mean, if this would be peaceful, I don't have

376
00:28:33,525 --> 00:28:37,245
access to the maps right now, so I, I can't picture this as well.

377
00:28:38,185 --> 00:28:41,625
uh, would it be possible to maybe take the ditch that, um,

378
00:28:42,905 --> 00:28:46,785
uh, on the property that, um, the

379
00:28:47,625 --> 00:28:51,525
mr. Hall, uh, says is not really a ditch? I, would it be possible to

380
00:28:51,685 --> 00:28:55,605
maybe convert that to a bio swell? Um, I think

381
00:28:55,765 --> 00:28:59,445
in, in, in the, in replacement of the, of the drainage or the, uh, detention

382
00:28:59,875 --> 00:29:03,785
pond, um, I would have to defer to a city engineer on that one. On

383
00:29:04,005 --> 00:29:06,705
what would be allowed or alternative compliance. Uh,

384
00:29:08,105 --> 00:29:10,245
mr. Barbara, did you hear the question? And can you,

385
00:29:14,195 --> 00:29:17,885
good evening. Leon, barbara, city engineer. Are you talking about the one that's in orange?

386
00:29:20,025 --> 00:29:23,925
uh, I don't have the copy of the map. Oh, the one, he was the one he was talking about that he's, uh, doesn't wanna

387
00:29:24,045 --> 00:29:27,935
do the, the, the sidewalk, uh, going over the, going

388
00:29:28,285 --> 00:29:32,165
over the drainage. Um, but I guess three

389
00:29:32,645 --> 00:29:36,525
c is what I have written down. I think that's the one. Would it be possible,

390
00:29:37,195 --> 00:29:41,185
he's saying that ditch is not really a ditch. He would, what I'm wondering is, uh,

391
00:29:41,585 --> 00:29:44,985
is is it possible maybe to in, in lieu of the,

392
00:29:45,705 --> 00:29:49,645
uh, the, the detention pond, convert that into

393
00:29:49,885 --> 00:29:53,405
a bio swell to to, to basically take care of both problems? Both issues?

394
00:29:54,075 --> 00:29:57,925
there's a couple of issues here with the, uh, particular ditch that we're looking at. And they were talking

395
00:29:58,085 --> 00:30:02,005
about, uh, where it leaves one 50 and where it, uh,

396
00:30:02,225 --> 00:30:06,135
enters, uh, blanco street, there's a about

397
00:30:06,565 --> 00:30:10,445
a two and a quarter inch, two and a half inch drop in a hundred feet in this thing.

398
00:30:10,705 --> 00:30:14,705
so it's got a 0.23%. Okay, that's very, very flat if

399
00:30:14,925 --> 00:30:18,685
you think about it. Mm-hmm . Two and a half inches in a hundred feet, you can't even see that.

400
00:30:19,345 --> 00:30:23,125
so that's the reason that we proposed the, uh, uh, uh, ditch the, uh,

401
00:30:23,525 --> 00:30:27,045
concrete valley gutter in that area. Uh, bioswells we suggested

402
00:30:27,565 --> 00:30:31,545
to mr. Hall that you, you look at bioswells, look at other lid improvements, but

403
00:30:31,865 --> 00:30:34,925
he did not want to go that route. He doesn't wanna hire the engineer to do that extra work.

404
00:30:36,185 --> 00:30:39,965
so one of the problems with the, um, with that is that, uh,

405
00:30:40,585 --> 00:30:44,525
it, where if he were talking about the orange line, that that's not draining

406
00:30:44,885 --> 00:30:48,885
in that area. He needs to provide that protection where everything's draining to that ditch over

407
00:30:49,125 --> 00:30:52,165
there at barbie and de blanco. So I dunno if that helps or not,

408
00:30:53,825 --> 00:30:55,005
but it answers my question.

409
00:30:59,245 --> 00:31:02,685
commissioner hildreth, uh, check your email. I think, um, the information

410
00:31:03,325 --> 00:31:05,685
that, uh, mr. Hall provided should be attached.

411
00:31:09,835 --> 00:31:13,805
okay. I don't have it yet. While we're waiting for that to come through,

412
00:31:14,165 --> 00:31:18,005
I just wanna ask a clarifying question. On the image on the screen,

413
00:31:18,335 --> 00:31:21,965
we're showing two ditch crossings on barbie. I'm gonna call it like

414
00:31:22,485 --> 00:31:25,945
crossing north and crossing south. The packet that I'm looking at

415
00:31:26,515 --> 00:31:30,145
from, um, mr. Hall says he doesn't want a second

416
00:31:30,815 --> 00:31:34,405
pedestrian bridge along barbie street. So I just wanna confirm,

417
00:31:34,905 --> 00:31:38,415
are we talking about an exception from both ditch

418
00:31:39,085 --> 00:31:43,005
crossings or only from one ditch crossing? 'cause on the map, both of them are labeled

419
00:31:43,265 --> 00:31:46,605
as no ditch crossing. In my, in my original conversations

420
00:31:47,285 --> 00:31:51,205
with mr. Hall, uh, the request we got in writing was for all ditch crossings.

421
00:31:51,465 --> 00:31:55,305
so, um, if he has something else that he's willing to do one or or

422
00:31:55,525 --> 00:31:58,885
the other, then I, I'd let him answer that and then y'all can take that into consideration.

423
00:31:59,715 --> 00:31:59,715
okay.

424
00:32:03,835 --> 00:32:07,805
okay. For some reason came through on my phone, but it did not come through on my computer.

425
00:32:08,145 --> 00:32:11,285
so lemme look it on, on the phone, on my phone here.

426
00:32:16,115 --> 00:32:19,805
just before we review the packet, it would be helpful, mr. Hall, to understand what exactly

427
00:32:20,385 --> 00:32:24,365
is the scope of your request here, just to make sure it's consistent with what we're going

428
00:32:24,445 --> 00:32:28,305
to be, uh, thinking about. You

429
00:32:28,645 --> 00:32:32,545
know, the ditch belongs to the city. The city receives avalor

430
00:32:32,965 --> 00:32:36,825
taxes to maintain it. It receives special drainage taxes to maintain it. It

431
00:32:37,045 --> 00:32:40,645
has grants, it has all kinds of, uh, financial opportunities.

432
00:32:41,945 --> 00:32:45,725
um, and if the city wants to build whatever bridges

433
00:32:46,205 --> 00:32:50,085
it wants, I'm all for that. And I'd like to direct your

434
00:32:50,325 --> 00:32:54,085
attention to the package. I know you haven't had a good chance to look at it, but if you look at

435
00:32:54,585 --> 00:32:57,365
figure 15, which is about the third, the last

436
00:32:58,595 --> 00:33:00,885
page of the packet, fourth to the last page of the packet.

437
00:33:03,195 --> 00:33:07,035
this is a letter from this

438
00:33:07,325 --> 00:33:09,875
letter from the city, figure 15

439
00:33:11,855 --> 00:33:15,605
underlined. If the developer chooses to construct the

440
00:33:15,885 --> 00:33:19,885
detention or alternative methods to keep post-development runoff rates the same

441
00:33:20,045 --> 00:33:24,005
as pre-development rates, then the city will perform the improvements

442
00:33:24,485 --> 00:33:27,685
to the drainage ditch through the city's capital improvement plan.

443
00:33:29,555 --> 00:33:33,265
this would include the pipe and driveway improvements. My

444
00:33:33,685 --> 00:33:37,565
response to that was, okay, you do that and I will build

445
00:33:37,805 --> 00:33:41,605
the pond, I'll build the sidewalks, et cetera. But when I

446
00:33:41,955 --> 00:33:45,845
gave them that reply, they rescinded that

447
00:33:46,045 --> 00:33:49,915
offer. And that really hard

448
00:33:50,205 --> 00:33:53,905
for me to understand. Mr. Hall to confirm you,

449
00:33:54,375 --> 00:33:57,995
there is a world in which you're willing to construct the drainage pond

450
00:33:58,425 --> 00:34:02,325
and some of these culverts, is that correct? With some help from the city?

451
00:34:02,745 --> 00:34:06,685
yes. And that help, what would you want to see from the city to I would simply

452
00:34:06,845 --> 00:34:10,645
want to follow what the city says, uh, at in that letter

453
00:34:10,985 --> 00:34:14,245
that's dated, uh, february 19th, 2026.

454
00:34:16,275 --> 00:34:20,065
okay. If the developer chooses to construct the detention or

455
00:34:20,285 --> 00:34:23,845
alternative methods to keep post-development runoff rates the same as pre-development

456
00:34:24,445 --> 00:34:27,915
rates, then the city will perform

457
00:34:29,425 --> 00:34:33,315
the improvements to the drainage ditch to the city's capital improvement plan.

458
00:34:34,595 --> 00:34:38,335
this would include the pipe and driveway improvements. Black

459
00:34:38,685 --> 00:34:42,505
and white in writing seems pretty plain to

460
00:34:42,725 --> 00:34:46,685
me, assigned writing sent by an authorized official

461
00:34:46,805 --> 00:34:50,805
of the city. And as I told the city at the next meeting after that, I

462
00:34:51,085 --> 00:34:53,875
received that letter. I said, okay, I'll build the retention pond.

463
00:34:55,115 --> 00:34:58,205
I'll build the sidewalks. You just take care of the ditch

464
00:35:00,065 --> 00:35:04,045
and we'll all be happy ever after. And so to confirm if we, we can find a

465
00:35:04,365 --> 00:35:07,325
solution that fits the language presented inside this february 19th

466
00:35:10,345 --> 00:35:13,865
letter letter, you're willing to construct the uh, yes.

467
00:35:14,375 --> 00:35:18,085
basin yeah. And associated construction with the caveat,

468
00:35:18,845 --> 00:35:22,745
I don't think it's as necessary as being pled, but, and in

469
00:35:22,965 --> 00:35:26,725
order to, uh, extend an olive branch of good faith, yeah, I'll do that.

470
00:35:28,245 --> 00:35:30,765
I just want the city to do what the city said it would do.

471
00:35:32,255 --> 00:35:33,765
black and white. Signed writing.

472
00:35:37,515 --> 00:35:41,165
okay. Mr. Lewis, commissioner alkin, before we move on, did you get your question answered about

473
00:35:41,715 --> 00:35:45,565
clarification on which one of these ditches is request or sidewalks

474
00:35:45,885 --> 00:35:49,685
is requested to be waived? Because I'm still not clear on that either. Yeah. Thank you for following up on that.

475
00:35:50,045 --> 00:35:53,025
I, I'm not clear on how figure 15 addresses the,

476
00:35:54,105 --> 00:35:57,085
um, the matter of which pedestrian bridge

477
00:35:58,185 --> 00:36:02,025
on barbie street or either. Well, it addresses it because if the

478
00:36:02,245 --> 00:36:06,165
ditch, the bridges are over the ditch. So if they will do what they said

479
00:36:06,425 --> 00:36:09,965
and, and do all the ditch improvements, I'll do the other pretty plain.

480
00:36:10,545 --> 00:36:14,515
and as far as the sidewalk, I think we're making, look, excuse me, I don't mean to step on any toes.

481
00:36:15,205 --> 00:36:19,085
I think we're making a little bit bigger deal outta sidewalks than necessary. We're willing to

482
00:36:19,285 --> 00:36:23,085
build the sidewalks as agreed with the city and make 'em to aada a,

483
00:36:23,505 --> 00:36:27,045
uh, standards four foot wide, uh, with, uh, five foot turnarounds

484
00:36:27,565 --> 00:36:31,315
as needed, but willing to do that. So, you know, they

485
00:36:31,605 --> 00:36:35,085
want to go five foot wide. I'll build 'em five foot wide. I'll build the, uh,

486
00:36:35,715 --> 00:36:39,275
pond if they will do the improvements in the ditch with the steel pipe

487
00:36:39,745 --> 00:36:43,645
as they said they would. I don't know if that

488
00:36:43,765 --> 00:36:47,685
answers your question, but let's, I don't think the, the sidewalk deal is that big a deal

489
00:36:48,085 --> 00:36:51,965
actually. Well, I I think what we're trying to do is clarified the request

490
00:36:52,305 --> 00:36:56,245
in front of us, um, rather than try to renegotiate a different request, we're just trying

491
00:36:56,405 --> 00:37:00,305
to understand the request in front of us as it sits right now. And I see

492
00:37:00,575 --> 00:37:04,525
three on that map up there on the screen. I see three blue

493
00:37:05,085 --> 00:37:09,085
sidewalks, but, uh, to chairman or chairman woman kins point, I

494
00:37:09,205 --> 00:37:13,165
only see two referenced in the letter. Well, if I may, and this is

495
00:37:13,285 --> 00:37:17,235
my understanding, let me share it with you. The green sidewalk is a moot point. It's

496
00:37:17,525 --> 00:37:21,405
in place, and the city I think, accepts it and I accept it. I think it would

497
00:37:21,565 --> 00:37:25,405
be a ridiculous waste to dig it up. So let's don't even talk about

498
00:37:25,645 --> 00:37:29,605
that. It's a good sidewalk. It's not that used that much. But I do see

499
00:37:29,765 --> 00:37:32,945
it being used, uh, the sidewalk along, uh,

500
00:37:34,825 --> 00:37:38,725
blanco street, we're willing to build that sidewalk along blanco street. We'd like

501
00:37:38,845 --> 00:37:42,845
it to be four foot instead of five foot, but if the city will do what they said they would in

502
00:37:43,005 --> 00:37:47,005
their letter, then we'll build it five foot wide. And, uh, I believe the city

503
00:37:47,555 --> 00:37:50,965
told us that we didn't have to build the south southernmost

504
00:37:51,785 --> 00:37:54,825
barbie street sidewalk. So I think that's kind of off the table too.

505
00:37:55,905 --> 00:37:59,765
so let's try to get together on the, on the sidewalk deal. That's

506
00:38:00,125 --> 00:38:01,885
not that big a deal. I,

507
00:38:05,335 --> 00:38:09,095
madam chair, maybe could we go to the picture on slide

508
00:38:09,595 --> 00:38:13,415
nine of the packet? Um, that way it shows where

509
00:38:13,865 --> 00:38:16,765
the channels are at versus the sidewalks.

510
00:38:23,705 --> 00:38:27,045
I'm not the one driving the ship, but yes, I they're working on it.

511
00:38:28,265 --> 00:38:28,485
yes, sir.

512
00:38:33,585 --> 00:38:37,525
so jason, a moment ago, uh, when mr. Hall was speaking about the letter

513
00:38:37,725 --> 00:38:40,425
from february 19th, it looked like you had, um,

514
00:38:42,125 --> 00:38:46,025
a comment that you wanted to, to share with us. Yes.

515
00:38:46,425 --> 00:38:49,845
um, so this letter, uh, I will tell you, this was a letter that was drafted by myself,

516
00:38:50,505 --> 00:38:54,465
uh, in coordination with, uh, city's engineering department and, uh,

517
00:38:54,685 --> 00:38:58,505
transportation department. Um, I will tell you that context is

518
00:38:58,745 --> 00:39:02,405
key. So there's two pieces of context that I wanna share with that. Um, so mr. Hall

519
00:39:02,925 --> 00:39:06,375
has highlighted, um, uh, the statement that staff would,

520
00:39:07,025 --> 00:39:10,925
um, do these things if he did this detention pond. Um, so the first

521
00:39:11,255 --> 00:39:14,965
issue is, I wanna call the second sentence, the second part of that sentence.

522
00:39:15,265 --> 00:39:19,005
uh, I said, this issue may require further discussion is there are multiple options

523
00:39:19,365 --> 00:39:23,325
that could be implemented each with their own set of challenges. So at the time

524
00:39:23,505 --> 00:39:27,085
of this discussion, staff had just kind of undergone the review

525
00:39:27,585 --> 00:39:31,325
of the veterans drive road project. We had just found

526
00:39:31,605 --> 00:39:35,355
out that we were modifying some of the drainage into the area. So staff's

527
00:39:35,845 --> 00:39:39,825
discussion at the front was, if he builds the detention and we

528
00:39:40,045 --> 00:39:43,975
are truly affecting that drainage, then we would do those things. The hence

529
00:39:44,425 --> 00:39:48,305
why we need to have further discussion. At the time of the writing of

530
00:39:48,525 --> 00:39:52,315
this letter, we did not have a full understanding of what those modifications were

531
00:39:52,605 --> 00:39:56,515
to that drainage ditch. Um, wasn't until prior to our subsequent meeting that

532
00:39:56,805 --> 00:40:00,545
we got that information. Um, we were on a call with, uh, um,

533
00:40:00,865 --> 00:40:04,585
the city's, uh, road bond engineer. Um, we found that the change

534
00:40:05,385 --> 00:40:09,265
in water was not a volume or channelization issue. Um, so

535
00:40:09,645 --> 00:40:13,525
actually there's no increase in the amount of water that we were putting into that ditch. So that would

536
00:40:13,825 --> 00:40:17,805
negate a city's, uh, or the city's stance that we would then perform those.

537
00:40:18,465 --> 00:40:22,365
uh, again, that that was written. And, and, and I, I will say that

538
00:40:22,525 --> 00:40:26,525
I, I probably should have worded that better. Um, uh, but that

539
00:40:26,765 --> 00:40:30,765
was basically we need to have this conversation. If we do this,

540
00:40:31,225 --> 00:40:35,125
if the city is causing these issues, then we would do those things. That was the

541
00:40:35,285 --> 00:40:39,265
intent. So I've apologized several times for not making that more clear, but I do have to to

542
00:40:39,485 --> 00:40:43,445
stress. Um, that was a reason for that section of, of this sec sentence.

543
00:40:44,065 --> 00:40:47,985
um, but really what the city found when we were doing is, is

544
00:40:48,415 --> 00:40:52,285
we're really kind of changing the, not the total water that's

545
00:40:52,565 --> 00:40:56,485
moving across this property, but the percentages. So before, and I'm, I'm just giving

546
00:40:56,725 --> 00:41:00,725
numbers, say it was, um, 80% in the pipe and 20% surface.

547
00:41:01,585 --> 00:41:05,425
now it went to like 75% pipe and

548
00:41:05,945 --> 00:41:09,745
25% surface. Like the change wasn't enough for us to

549
00:41:09,985 --> 00:41:13,905
say, yes, this would, would make us do those improvements to

550
00:41:14,125 --> 00:41:18,045
that channel, including the pipe. Had that been the case, then that would've been what

551
00:41:18,165 --> 00:41:22,085
the city said, yes, we caused this, which is why we are supporting the trickle channel

552
00:41:22,285 --> 00:41:26,245
because our change on that did affect that. So just two pieces of context I wanted

553
00:41:26,405 --> 00:41:30,365
to share with you on that. Okay, thank you. Mr. Lukes, could I repeat my understanding what you

554
00:41:30,485 --> 00:41:34,045
just said there to make sure the shared understanding, the proposed attention

555
00:41:34,675 --> 00:41:38,325
pond, the purpose of that is to offset the potential surface

556
00:41:39,085 --> 00:41:42,375
flooding from the building that is now the impervious cover cover

557
00:41:43,235 --> 00:41:47,165
that offsets that possible drainage concern. The line in

558
00:41:47,375 --> 00:41:51,175
green, the intention of that is to help convey that water

559
00:41:51,985 --> 00:41:55,645
out because this is a basically flat piece of land. The water would otherwise

560
00:41:56,665 --> 00:41:59,685
not leave the property. It would pool, it would rise, it would stay there.

561
00:42:00,745 --> 00:42:04,605
the items in blue are proposed by the city because that is

562
00:42:04,765 --> 00:42:07,805
the portion that the city has assessed would need to be

563
00:42:09,265 --> 00:42:13,185
offset by the increase in storm water movement because of

564
00:42:13,405 --> 00:42:17,185
the other impervious cover planned by the city in the future. Yes, and

565
00:42:17,445 --> 00:42:21,325
I would, I would caveat not increase, but just modification on how it

566
00:42:21,485 --> 00:42:24,965
moved across. 'cause we did verify we did. We're not increasing that, that flow. Thank you, sir.

567
00:42:32,905 --> 00:42:36,345
all right. So we all have our packets now. Um,

568
00:42:37,085 --> 00:42:41,085
I am going to say that we're gonna go into a, what do you think?

569
00:42:41,165 --> 00:42:45,125
five minutes guys? Commissioner hildreth. Would five

570
00:42:45,245 --> 00:42:49,245
minutes be sufficient for you to look through the document? Yeah, I've, I I'm actually, I actually almost done

571
00:42:49,445 --> 00:42:53,445
with it, so, oh, look at you. Go. Okay. Um, so we're gonna take a

572
00:42:53,565 --> 00:42:57,125
five minute break. We're going to, uh, recess until seven 18.

573
00:42:59,465 --> 00:43:03,225
do I have to bang the thing that's more fun if you do, that's

574
00:43:03,645 --> 00:43:04,515
true. Yeah. Okay.

575
00:48:17,745 --> 00:48:21,605
. Um, is that sufficient for everybody or

576
00:48:21,825 --> 00:48:25,705
do you need a few more minutes? Comfortable. You're comfortable? Good, good, good.

577
00:48:26,415 --> 00:48:30,385
okay. I'm fine. We will, um, keep moving

578
00:48:30,695 --> 00:48:34,545
forward then. So I believe

579
00:48:34,785 --> 00:48:38,745
you were going to, I don't know, be there for questions or did

580
00:48:38,905 --> 00:48:42,865
you have more you wanted to present to us? Um, I kind of wanted to see if y'all had any

581
00:48:43,185 --> 00:48:46,865
questions. If not, I can go on to my next, uh, kind of, we can go through

582
00:48:47,255 --> 00:48:50,825
what, what staff's recommendations are. If, if you don't have any specific questions.

583
00:48:51,945 --> 00:48:55,745
I have one specific question. I think it's wonderful that we have a very diverse

584
00:48:56,195 --> 00:49:00,145
commission up here, and there are people that are a lot more engineering oriented than I am.

585
00:49:00,645 --> 00:49:04,465
so this might sound like a dumb question, but what is the problem with

586
00:49:04,745 --> 00:49:08,745
steel pipe? Leon ?

587
00:49:09,585 --> 00:49:12,855
I can give you a kind of boring answer, but you'll want the engineering one. Okay.

588
00:49:16,655 --> 00:49:20,585
there's, there's many types of pipes that you can install for as drainage structures. There's plastic,

589
00:49:20,895 --> 00:49:24,615
there's, uh, steel, there's corrugated metal pipe galvanized, there's,

590
00:49:25,105 --> 00:49:28,825
uh, even plastic pipes. And of course there's, uh, concrete pipe, reinforced

591
00:49:29,225 --> 00:49:33,065
concrete pipe for at least the last 10 years, the city of kyle's been requiring

592
00:49:33,625 --> 00:49:37,545
concrete pipe in the right of way for driveways. Uh, we had a new, uh, division

593
00:49:37,665 --> 00:49:41,665
manager over at the public works department and since, and came from another city, and that's what they

594
00:49:42,025 --> 00:49:45,885
required. That's actually in our drench criteria manual that we've adopted where we

595
00:49:46,105 --> 00:49:50,105
require concrete pipes in the right of way. One of the things about concrete pipe is that, uh, we have a

596
00:49:50,225 --> 00:49:54,025
lot of construction going on around the cities. And, and on occasion, uh, when

597
00:49:54,265 --> 00:49:58,265
you have contractors out there and they're digging with their backhoe and whatever, ev every once in a while they'll

598
00:49:58,505 --> 00:50:02,305
find one of our pipes with the concrete pipe. It's not less likely for them to break that. They

599
00:50:02,545 --> 00:50:06,505
can break it, but they'll, once they find it, they kind of realize that, hey, we have a pipe here and we don't, we don't, we need

600
00:50:06,625 --> 00:50:10,465
to stop with metal pipe. You don't have that flexibility once you cut through it.

601
00:50:11,325 --> 00:50:15,185
uh, it's, and, and it's torn. It's hard to patch that kind of pipe. But the

602
00:50:15,345 --> 00:50:19,265
biggest deal that we have a concern about the metal pipe is that it's only got about a 20 to 40 year

603
00:50:19,625 --> 00:50:23,465
lifespan. And, uh, with the concrete pipe, you're looking at 50 to maybe even a hundred years.

604
00:50:24,165 --> 00:50:28,125
now the, the, the key point here is it has to be installed properly, properly. If you don't install it properly,

605
00:50:28,515 --> 00:50:32,325
none of the pipes are gonna be that good or serve their function for that particular drainage issue.

606
00:50:33,065 --> 00:50:37,005
but that's the reason we don't like the metal pipe is because, and if you notice in some of the pictures that might have been shown,

607
00:50:37,705 --> 00:50:41,685
uh, there, and when it's particular at blanco at uh, barbie, there's a pipe, metal pipe that was used

608
00:50:41,845 --> 00:50:45,845
there way before my time, our time. And it's crushed in. That's one

609
00:50:45,925 --> 00:50:49,765
of the disadvantages of using metal pipe. It does get crushed in on the ends. Now if you put a nice head ball on

610
00:50:49,965 --> 00:50:53,825
it, less chance of that happening. But back, back, back then, they did not do that. So

611
00:50:54,045 --> 00:50:58,005
we've had, that's sometimes you have to go in there and actually jack it up to open up the pipe. So that's

612
00:50:58,285 --> 00:51:02,085
the downside of the metal pipe. Plus it does corrode doesn't last as long as, as

613
00:51:02,325 --> 00:51:05,845
a concrete pipe does. So those are the big differences. Thank you.

614
00:51:07,745 --> 00:51:11,475
and you said, sir, that it is standard for under current code

615
00:51:11,765 --> 00:51:15,205
in the city to use the concrete versus steel. Is that what you said? Yes, sir.

616
00:51:15,925 --> 00:51:19,925
actually, uh, on a, like, on a development, uh, we do allow them to use whatever pipe they need

617
00:51:20,085 --> 00:51:24,045
because if they're gonna maintain it, then we don't have an issue with that. We're seeing a lot of these developments

618
00:51:24,365 --> 00:51:28,325
now using this plastic pipe. So, which is a good product. But, uh, and actually

619
00:51:28,485 --> 00:51:32,445
I, as a public servant, at one point I did use a plastic pipe, but I was between two houses. I didn't

620
00:51:32,645 --> 00:51:36,565
have room to work, so I used a plastic pipe, but that was between two houses. We did not allow

621
00:51:36,765 --> 00:51:40,705
it in the streets because of the concern, uh, for contractors turned up or, uh,

622
00:51:40,925 --> 00:51:44,865
and, and the long life that it has, and that, excuse me, that requirement is,

623
00:51:45,225 --> 00:51:49,045
is codified in code, correct? It's, it's in the drainage criteria manual that we've adopted,

624
00:51:49,385 --> 00:51:53,045
uh, city of austin's in, in at least two places. It says, we shall use concrete, reinforce

625
00:51:53,445 --> 00:51:56,365
concrete pipe or reinforce concrete box culverts. Thank you. It's in code.

626
00:51:59,265 --> 00:52:03,205
I'd like a chance to respond to that. Uh, metal pipes are being

627
00:52:03,365 --> 00:52:07,185
put in today, right on one 50 with walking distance. Uh,

628
00:52:07,405 --> 00:52:11,135
here's some, some indications of concrete pipe versus metal

629
00:52:11,485 --> 00:52:15,155
pipe. Here's a, here's a homeowner or property owner that

630
00:52:15,505 --> 00:52:18,945
had this concrete pipe and replaced it with this new

631
00:52:19,625 --> 00:52:23,425
design metal pipe. So, uh, the

632
00:52:23,925 --> 00:52:27,845
concrete pipe is not the be all wall, all it's, it's to up to

633
00:52:28,005 --> 00:52:32,005
be. And as far as lasting 20 years there pipe, and this city

634
00:52:33,425 --> 00:52:37,345
way over a hundred years, I'm, I'm sure that's it's, uh, metal pipe. And

635
00:52:37,565 --> 00:52:41,025
mr. Barbara pointed out at co at the confluence of barbie

636
00:52:41,665 --> 00:52:45,565
and lanco street, there is a, a metal pipe culvert

637
00:52:45,805 --> 00:52:49,805
under that road that is crushed down. And I have asked the city, why don't you come out there

638
00:52:49,925 --> 00:52:53,285
and do something about that? Because this crushed down. It is going to

639
00:52:53,945 --> 00:52:57,405
impede the flow from my property and down to the regular drainage

640
00:52:57,965 --> 00:53:01,525
ditches, and it is virtually gonna turn my property possibly

641
00:53:02,275 --> 00:53:06,205
into a, uh, a, a tension pond itself because of that,

642
00:53:06,675 --> 00:53:09,765
that poorly maintained pipe under the city street.

643
00:53:18,535 --> 00:53:22,385
share a little information. Um, mr. Hall is correct on the pipe on one

644
00:53:22,605 --> 00:53:26,455
50. Unfortunately, uh, the city did not have the authority. That was a txdot

645
00:53:26,805 --> 00:53:30,725
project. Um, they're, they're installing that. Um, so they

646
00:53:30,985 --> 00:53:33,825
are, are not beholden to some of our regs, um,

647
00:53:35,065 --> 00:53:39,005
as it, it's their highway. My response to that

648
00:53:39,125 --> 00:53:41,585
is, let me ask you a question. Is that pipe in the city of co?

649
00:53:45,465 --> 00:53:49,265
it is, yes, sir. Okay. It is in the city of kyle. So

650
00:53:49,485 --> 00:53:53,305
saying you can't use, you cannot use metal pipe. The city of kyle is

651
00:53:53,625 --> 00:53:57,565
not really true. You're saying, well, it's texdot. So I'm a person against whom you would

652
00:53:57,685 --> 00:54:01,445
enforce your local rules, but you won't stand up to t dot. Is that

653
00:54:01,725 --> 00:54:05,285
correct? I, I think we've gotten a little far off the scope of the question.

654
00:54:06,265 --> 00:54:09,365
in any case, I think it would be known that the state law, ems, local.

655
00:54:20,025 --> 00:54:23,985
are there any other immediate questions? No.

656
00:54:24,435 --> 00:54:28,245
okay. I will say I don't think it was a dumb question at all. 'cause I had the same one written

657
00:54:28,485 --> 00:54:31,765
down that I was going to ask. So thank you for beating me to the punch there.

658
00:54:32,905 --> 00:54:36,665
uh, mr. Roots, you can continue. Uh, yes. So, um,

659
00:54:36,975 --> 00:54:40,905
staff recommendations, again, I'm gonna go through all those recommendations and then we

660
00:54:41,125 --> 00:54:44,125
will go back and you can make your motion on, on each item individually.

661
00:54:45,225 --> 00:54:48,675
um, just to help us, uh, clarify minutes, uh, for council's,

662
00:54:49,345 --> 00:54:53,085
uh, next meeting, which would be may 5th. Um, so requesting,

663
00:54:53,825 --> 00:54:57,405
uh, exempt exemption requests one a and one b.

664
00:54:57,865 --> 00:55:01,845
um, so staff looked at these requirements. Um, staff recommends denial

665
00:55:02,425 --> 00:55:06,005
as these are specifications within the code to mitigate flood damage due to development

666
00:55:06,535 --> 00:55:10,485
activities. Um, no hardship exists that would prevent the application from adhering

667
00:55:10,885 --> 00:55:14,835
to the requirements of the code. When we looked at exception

668
00:55:15,445 --> 00:55:19,005
requests number two, uh, to allow alternative culvert specifications,

669
00:55:20,335 --> 00:55:23,965
again, uh, staff can recommend approval of alternative culvert specifications

670
00:55:24,465 --> 00:55:28,405
as allowed by city code and approved by the city engineer. Once we receive the updated

671
00:55:28,695 --> 00:55:32,425
plans and engineering documents is are submitted. Um, if the,

672
00:55:33,025 --> 00:55:36,905
if the request is to not install it without any of that, um,

673
00:55:37,525 --> 00:55:41,505
verification, um, again, we're recommending denial on

674
00:55:41,785 --> 00:55:42,785
on that. Um,

675
00:55:47,355 --> 00:55:51,085
request recommendation, exception request three a and three

676
00:55:51,605 --> 00:55:55,585
b. Um, new sidewalks along veterans drive. Um, so

677
00:55:55,815 --> 00:55:59,525
staff does recommend approval of the exception request, um, as the

678
00:55:59,965 --> 00:56:03,405
existing sidewalks are along veterans, um, it's, it's existing infrastructure.

679
00:56:04,625 --> 00:56:08,605
uh, pnz has approved that as part of their cup and staff had previously agreed

680
00:56:09,005 --> 00:56:12,885
to allow that as part of their site development, eliminate sidewalks along

681
00:56:13,125 --> 00:56:17,005
barbie street from wood street to veterans drive. Staff does recommend approval of that

682
00:56:17,165 --> 00:56:21,025
variance request again, as this portion of, of that road is going to be closed.

683
00:56:23,115 --> 00:56:27,045
when we get into the recommendation, um, except request

684
00:56:27,535 --> 00:56:30,925
three c and 3d wave sidewalk crossings over drainage ditches,

685
00:56:31,625 --> 00:56:35,465
uh, staff recommends denial of that. Um, again, pedestrian connectivity and

686
00:56:35,685 --> 00:56:39,445
safety issues are our concern. Um, again, no hardship that we found

687
00:56:40,185 --> 00:56:44,165
and then reduce them. Minimum sidewalk wi width from five feet to four feet. Again, staff

688
00:56:44,405 --> 00:56:48,325
does recommend denial, um, as this is the minimum standard, uh, found in

689
00:56:48,485 --> 00:56:52,325
city code and would not identified a hardship, um, that would keep the applicant from meeting

690
00:56:52,525 --> 00:56:52,925
this code requirement.

691
00:56:56,825 --> 00:56:59,665
so here's a quick and dirty of the breakdown, um,

692
00:57:03,345 --> 00:57:06,565
but I can go back to the, the first options if you'll want to entertain motions.

693
00:57:12,025 --> 00:57:15,765
thanks for leading us through all of these. Send me,

694
00:57:21,685 --> 00:57:25,605
I heard like, did y'all hear that? Yes. Okay. Okay. Maybe I was too close

695
00:57:25,765 --> 00:57:29,465
to it. Um, thank you for leading us through all of these. Um,

696
00:57:30,185 --> 00:57:33,455
at this time, you know, are there any questions for staff

697
00:57:36,325 --> 00:57:40,225
? Sounds like we don't have questions for

698
00:57:40,445 --> 00:57:44,405
staff. Okay. Um, so we do have a few

699
00:57:44,525 --> 00:57:48,465
items here of different natures. So I'm gonna propose that we,

700
00:57:49,385 --> 00:57:52,855
um, break this into three different votes,

701
00:57:53,405 --> 00:57:57,325
I guess. Um, a vote for the watershed and flood prevention items, a vote

702
00:57:57,525 --> 00:58:01,045
for the general requirement items, and a vote for the sidewalk items. Is that

703
00:58:01,755 --> 00:58:05,225
okay with everybody? Okay. So, um,

704
00:58:06,255 --> 00:58:09,965
let's go ahead and somebody throw out a motion. We don't have to go in the order

705
00:58:10,385 --> 00:58:14,285
of, um, item one, two, or three. We can

706
00:58:14,405 --> 00:58:18,105
start with sidewalks or we can start with general requirements or watershed. Uh, but

707
00:58:18,545 --> 00:58:21,925
who has a motion that they would like to throw out there so we can begin discussion?

708
00:58:26,815 --> 00:58:30,785
madam chair, I'm sorry. I have one more question for mr. Hall, if you don't mind. Could we go back one

709
00:58:31,005 --> 00:58:34,305
second. I wanted to confirm one thing. Um, mr. Hall,

710
00:58:35,065 --> 00:58:37,845
on item, let me get the right number,

711
00:58:39,115 --> 00:58:43,045
exception two in which it talks about where the city would support

712
00:58:43,585 --> 00:58:47,325
an alternative procedure or alternative culvert if there was engineering

713
00:58:47,885 --> 00:58:51,685
documentation to support it. Earlier, your, such, your presentation, I heard you say,

714
00:58:52,145 --> 00:58:56,005
uh, that you provided the math work to the city. That documentation

715
00:58:57,065 --> 00:59:00,805
was that prepared by an engineer. Was that prepared by, by yourself,

716
00:59:01,105 --> 00:59:05,045
by a consultant who prepared those values that were presented to the city?

717
00:59:05,885 --> 00:59:09,555
I prepared those. Okay. With my research. I, I would imagine

718
00:59:10,665 --> 00:59:14,525
an engineer would find the same results. Okay. But basically the question simply

719
00:59:15,065 --> 00:59:19,015
put is, can two 18 inch pipes adequately drain

720
00:59:19,825 --> 00:59:23,575
the feeding of one 18 inch pipe? Now, concrete pipes

721
00:59:23,925 --> 00:59:27,825
are a little bit slicker inside, so water flows a little bit faster as

722
00:59:28,045 --> 00:59:32,005
opposed to corrugated. But the research and literature I found

723
00:59:32,475 --> 00:59:36,405
says that if they're laying flat, as, as mr. Barbara pointed out to you,

724
00:59:36,715 --> 00:59:40,595
they're, they're not laying flat, but they're have a very, very tiny

725
00:59:41,155 --> 00:59:44,945
incline that negates any friction because the water is gonna go

726
00:59:45,665 --> 00:59:49,355
in, uh, the same in either one because it is a flat

727
00:59:49,955 --> 00:59:53,845
tube, it's flat, not if it's, uh, if there, if there's more

728
00:59:53,965 --> 00:59:57,205
elevation to it, if corrugations might slow it down a little bit,

729
00:59:58,065 --> 01:00:01,965
but if it's flat, no difference. And I, I sent

730
01:00:02,245 --> 01:00:06,085
that to these guys with plenty of time to look. I, I don't know if they looked at it or not,

731
01:00:06,745 --> 01:00:10,625
but I, I was pretty impressed with what I found and how understandable it really was.

732
01:00:11,715 --> 01:00:15,615
I've gone through the city with this cycle of go to the engineer, we'll

733
01:00:15,965 --> 01:00:19,825
have a meeting, go back to the engineer, we'll have a meeting. I, you

734
01:00:20,045 --> 01:00:23,725
know, this is common sense stuff. This is not

735
01:00:24,365 --> 01:00:27,605
engineering stuff. There's no nasa involved here. This is a simple

736
01:00:28,655 --> 01:00:32,605
third grade word problem and two 18 inch pipes, and the same

737
01:00:33,055 --> 01:00:36,885
level drain as much as one 18 inch pipe.

738
01:00:37,385 --> 01:00:41,285
and also the 18 inch pipe that's feeding it from the city is a

739
01:00:41,405 --> 01:00:44,485
corrugated pipe. It's not a concrete pipe.

740
01:00:45,745 --> 01:00:49,525
so I've had, I adequately answered the question, now the city

741
01:00:49,995 --> 01:00:53,465
indicates that I should go hire an, uh, hire a, uh,

742
01:00:54,065 --> 01:00:57,685
an engineer, and that'll be 2, 5, 6, $8,000. I don't know,

743
01:00:59,045 --> 01:01:02,795
I don't have hired an engineer lately, but, uh, they

744
01:01:03,085 --> 01:01:07,065
come with big numbers, big, big numbers and

745
01:01:07,285 --> 01:01:10,545
mr and it's just wasteful. And I feel like I'm being singled out for,

746
01:01:11,465 --> 01:01:15,385
for, for wasteful activity. Wasted my, my time, wasted

747
01:01:15,805 --> 01:01:19,575
my money. And, uh, you know, I started this project about

748
01:01:19,925 --> 01:01:23,925
three years ago and I get in this cycle, hire an engineer. Let's have a meeting, let's talk about this.

749
01:01:24,005 --> 01:01:27,965
hire an engineer, have a meeting. Let's talk about hire an engineer. I've hired engineers to tell us where to

750
01:01:28,165 --> 01:01:32,115
put the plants, engineers that, this, that and the other. It's,

751
01:01:32,405 --> 01:01:34,965
it's, it's outta hand. It's ridiculous. It's off the hook

752
01:01:36,745 --> 01:01:40,545
and they're just got, you know, somebody gotta have put some foot down. I'm

753
01:01:40,765 --> 01:01:44,545
putting my foot down. I say, no, I'm not hiring more engineers for simple little common

754
01:01:45,015 --> 01:01:48,405
sense things. So that may not be the answer that

755
01:01:49,535 --> 01:01:53,315
staff or you want to hear, but that's a real answer. I've gotta, I've

756
01:01:53,605 --> 01:01:56,765
got to get to the reality of getting this done and I can't be

757
01:01:57,635 --> 01:02:01,305
delayed, delayed, delayed. On and on and on. Uh,

758
01:02:03,045 --> 01:02:07,045
I hope that answers your question. And mr. Hall, under ordinance, we are

759
01:02:07,525 --> 01:02:11,525
required to identify if there's a special circumstance or condition affecting the

760
01:02:11,685 --> 01:02:15,325
land involved, such that the strict application of the provisions of this chapter

761
01:02:15,885 --> 01:02:19,850
would've had a substantial adverse impact on the applicant's reasonable

762
01:02:20,425 --> 01:02:24,285
use of his land. What, what special

763
01:02:24,645 --> 01:02:28,605
circumstances have we not asked you that we should have, that we should be aware of

764
01:02:28,985 --> 01:02:32,885
for why we need to grant this exception? Special circumstances,

765
01:02:33,705 --> 01:02:37,685
you know, there's, there's three views. There's a view of the forest, there's a view of the tree, and there's a view of the

766
01:02:37,765 --> 01:02:41,725
bark. I keep getting the view of the bark from these guys. Let's look at the forest. Let's look at

767
01:02:41,845 --> 01:02:45,565
the trees out there. There's not a trickle channel anywhere.

768
01:02:46,185 --> 01:02:50,045
if I, if I said I gave the first one of you who can go walk and

769
01:02:50,205 --> 01:02:54,165
find me a trickle channel, I'll give you 25,000 cash. You wouldn't be able to come

770
01:02:54,325 --> 01:02:58,205
back within hours. There's not out. They're not out there. And the exceptions that,

771
01:02:58,505 --> 01:03:02,425
uh, uh, to the, to the, to the ponding situation, why, if

772
01:03:02,645 --> 01:03:06,505
it's, if it's the law, why isn't there one here? If it's so important, the

773
01:03:06,725 --> 01:03:10,045
city should start tomorrow and build a big retention pond out there.

774
01:03:11,235 --> 01:03:14,835
you know, let's look at the forest, let's look at the comparisons. Let's look at what goes on

775
01:03:15,275 --> 01:03:19,215
in the larger community and not say, well, we found on page an exception here on

776
01:03:19,375 --> 01:03:23,305
page 37, 14 14 b, come on, let's

777
01:03:23,655 --> 01:03:27,655
look at what does it take to make a community prosper? And that means helping

778
01:03:27,995 --> 01:03:31,755
the people who were trying to help the community prosper and not relying on,

779
01:03:32,115 --> 01:03:35,495
oh, I got you, I got you on this, I got you on that. Go hire 42

780
01:03:36,575 --> 01:03:40,535
engineers to prove me wrong. I'm not doing that anymore. I'm done with the engineering route.

781
01:03:42,315 --> 01:03:46,155
it has not led anywhere. I'm here tonight because of

782
01:03:46,615 --> 01:03:48,255
engineers. I,

783
01:03:58,765 --> 01:04:00,935
okay. Are there any other questions for staff?

784
01:04:03,645 --> 01:04:07,335
okay, we need, um, a motion to start discussion

785
01:04:08,155 --> 01:04:09,735
on anything.

786
01:04:17,415 --> 01:04:21,415
I think for staff, we would like to kind of take it item by item, um, just so

787
01:04:21,575 --> 01:04:25,415
we can have those motions instead of kind of back and forth. Um, just because it's laid

788
01:04:25,615 --> 01:04:29,525
out that way, I think it'll be easier for council to, to kind of follow and understand. Okay.

789
01:04:29,835 --> 01:04:33,045
so start with watershed and flood prevention and then work our way down.

790
01:04:34,515 --> 01:04:38,255
yes. Okay. Um, so this is would be exception one a or one

791
01:04:38,575 --> 01:04:42,535
b, um, to waive requirements for detention pond and or trickle

792
01:04:42,895 --> 01:04:46,805
channel. Okay.

793
01:04:52,075 --> 01:04:55,835
um, I'd like to make a motion to recommend, uh, denial of

794
01:04:56,125 --> 01:04:59,355
request number one related to watershed and flood prevention. Second.

795
01:05:00,845 --> 01:05:04,615
okay. We have a, um, motion to recommend

796
01:05:04,915 --> 01:05:08,895
denial of the exception request for items one, a and b.

797
01:05:09,255 --> 01:05:13,175
a and b, a and b, uh, from commissioner webb and seconded by vice chair

798
01:05:13,615 --> 01:05:16,950
siegel, is there any discussion on that one? One

799
01:05:22,105 --> 01:05:25,845
seeing that as I would read ordinance, we have to relay out in a very

800
01:05:26,245 --> 01:05:30,245
explicit way in the minutes and everything else as to why that is being recommended for

801
01:05:30,445 --> 01:05:33,835
denial. Um, I'll start by outlining that under item

802
01:05:34,485 --> 01:05:38,165
c one about a special circumstance. I have not heard tonight,

803
01:05:38,765 --> 01:05:42,405
a special circumstance that would rise to that level to warrant a waiver

804
01:05:43,225 --> 01:05:47,065
in this case for item two, that the granting of

805
01:05:47,285 --> 01:05:50,875
this exception would not be detrimental to public health or safety or welfare or injurious

806
01:05:51,485 --> 01:05:55,405
to other property in the area. I think we've heard tonight that that's

807
01:05:55,685 --> 01:05:59,405
a risk, both in terms of known hazards and expected hazards

808
01:05:59,885 --> 01:06:03,335
with changing in the flood landscape for item three,

809
01:06:04,115 --> 01:06:08,045
that the granting of this exception would not have the effect of preventing the orderly

810
01:06:08,445 --> 01:06:11,685
subdivision or other land in the area in accordance with the provisions of the chapter.

811
01:06:12,645 --> 01:06:16,385
I think he's met this one. I, I don't see why this would be a reason for denial,

812
01:06:16,905 --> 01:06:20,765
but for two of the three not being met, I don't think, I could

813
01:06:20,965 --> 01:06:23,725
not read the ordinance say that we could grant an exception here.

814
01:06:33,505 --> 01:06:35,165
is there other discussion on that motion?

815
01:06:38,685 --> 01:06:42,485
I wanna make sure, um, commissioner hildreth, can you hear us okay? Do you have anything you wanna chime in? Yes,

816
01:06:42,725 --> 01:06:43,355
I can. Okay.

817
01:06:49,865 --> 01:06:53,805
all right. Yeah, I mean, the, the points

818
01:06:54,035 --> 01:06:58,005
laid out in the, um, code about what we need, the requirements

819
01:06:58,485 --> 01:07:02,405
we need to meet here. Um, I don't, I don't see that either

820
01:07:03,145 --> 01:07:07,085
for all three of 'em. Um, I, I, if I

821
01:07:07,405 --> 01:07:10,945
remember correctly, a long time ago when we first had the cup, um,

822
01:07:12,485 --> 01:07:16,285
a detention pond was included in the plan at that time. So this is kind of

823
01:07:16,715 --> 01:07:20,625
something that they knew about going in and now

824
01:07:20,845 --> 01:07:24,705
they're deciding, no, we, we don't wanna do it. I think that there's plenty of

825
01:07:25,235 --> 01:07:29,235
alternate options that have been made available. Um, rain gardens, bioswales,

826
01:07:30,205 --> 01:07:33,755
lid, um, to, to give options

827
01:07:34,745 --> 01:07:38,525
if you don't wanna build a detention pond, I think there's options there

828
01:07:38,825 --> 01:07:42,525
for the, for the applicant that can get them out of

829
01:07:42,965 --> 01:07:46,885
building a detention pond if they don't wanna build a detention pond. Um, but to

830
01:07:47,045 --> 01:07:50,635
do nothing, um, yeah,

831
01:07:51,075 --> 01:07:54,705
that one, I don't think we've made a strong case for that yet,

832
01:07:57,105 --> 01:08:00,205
in my opinion. Attractive options, if you're talking bios, swales and such,

833
01:08:01,275 --> 01:08:04,805
yeah. Much more attractive than a detention pond, that's for sure. ,

834
01:08:06,305 --> 01:08:09,805
uh, I guess I, I have a,

835
01:08:10,565 --> 01:08:13,785
a kind of question for staff, a detention pond on the site, because it is so

836
01:08:14,715 --> 01:08:18,565
flat already, what would that even look like? Uh, would it just be

837
01:08:18,725 --> 01:08:22,465
like a depressed area of a couple of feet deep? Or like, how,

838
01:08:22,745 --> 01:08:26,585
how do you even make a detention pond on something that's already yeah, I'm,

839
01:08:26,865 --> 01:08:30,745
I'm not sure on the plan set. It is fairly shallow. I don't believe this was 2, 3, 4, 5

840
01:08:31,915 --> 01:08:35,705
feet deep. I mean, it's taking a small amount of water. Um, now

841
01:08:36,485 --> 01:08:40,405
dressing it up, that's, that's, that's the landowner. Some people just leave them as are, and

842
01:08:40,605 --> 01:08:44,465
some people plant shrubs and flowers and dress it up. So,

843
01:08:44,945 --> 01:08:48,925
um, I don't believe on this rendering, there was, uh, not much landscaping that was,

844
01:08:49,085 --> 01:08:52,765
that was proposed around there. So it'd be your typical small, shallow detention pond

845
01:08:53,755 --> 01:08:57,625
like a foot. Yeah. If, if you're asking deep how deep it is, I'd,

846
01:08:57,845 --> 01:09:01,485
I'd have to get that answer to you, but I, I'm not sure that it's kind of pertinent for

847
01:09:01,905 --> 01:09:03,235
the discussion. Okay.

848
01:09:07,105 --> 01:09:08,625
any other discussion? I on that one?

849
01:09:12,035 --> 01:09:15,925
okay. Uh, let's go ahead and take a vote. The motion is to recommend

850
01:09:16,085 --> 01:09:20,085
denial of the exception request for items number one about the

851
01:09:20,245 --> 01:09:23,885
detention pond and trickle channel. All those in favor

852
01:09:24,265 --> 01:09:28,025
of recommending denial, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye.

853
01:09:28,905 --> 01:09:32,715
all opposed say na. Okay. That one is completed.

854
01:09:34,265 --> 01:09:38,205
uh, next up on our list is about the general requirements. This one's about

855
01:09:38,325 --> 01:09:39,285
the culvert specifications.

856
01:09:43,145 --> 01:09:47,065
so, may I say one thing about the, uh,

857
01:09:47,495 --> 01:09:51,435
metal pipe versus the concrete pipe? Yes, sir. I'm not opposed to using the metal pipe.

858
01:09:51,955 --> 01:09:55,925
what, uh, mr. Hall doesn't realize, uh, we have a set of engineered drawings

859
01:09:56,705 --> 01:10:00,505
signed and sealed by a registered professional engineer. We can't just change his

860
01:10:00,775 --> 01:10:04,585
plans without him knowing or without him making those changes. The

861
01:10:04,805 --> 01:10:08,645
pipe that, uh, he mentioned it's, it's rougher than, than

862
01:10:08,925 --> 01:10:12,865
our concrete pipe, as he will. And good job in your research, john, by the way, uh,

863
01:10:13,305 --> 01:10:17,065
he did, uh, say it is rougher. So that's the friction factor. In

864
01:10:17,345 --> 01:10:21,295
one report that I have. It says to replace an 18 inch pipe, it needs to be a 27 inch corrugated

865
01:10:21,965 --> 01:10:25,395
galvanism metal galvanized metal pipe. That's a pretty large size pipe,

866
01:10:26,225 --> 01:10:29,805
but I need the engineer to tell me the two eighteens that are there that are concrete

867
01:10:30,305 --> 01:10:34,125
can be replaced by two 18 inch galvanized metal pipes. And I need that from

868
01:10:34,325 --> 01:10:38,285
the engineer because that's, it's an ethical issue. Now, I cannot change that without him knowing

869
01:10:38,665 --> 01:10:42,245
or him telling me what the right pipe size should be. So I'm gonna let you know that.

870
01:10:44,745 --> 01:10:48,725
so, mr. Barber, that was a part of the plan submitted to you, signed and

871
01:10:48,885 --> 01:10:51,285
sealed by another professional engineer? That is correct.

872
01:10:57,395 --> 01:11:01,245
okay. We need a motion and a second to take action on this one, or to even

873
01:11:01,565 --> 01:11:04,205
hold discussion, of course. A question on the process,

874
01:11:05,625 --> 01:11:09,205
if we take action to recommend denial, and mr. Hall

875
01:11:09,805 --> 01:11:13,315
comes back at a future date with a licensed stamped engineering report that

876
01:11:14,085 --> 01:11:17,605
outlines his, his plan, that could be reconsidered. Is that correct?

877
01:11:18,105 --> 01:11:21,965
mm-hmm . Um, if he came back with a licensed professional that updated

878
01:11:22,265 --> 01:11:26,005
his plans, this would not come back to y'all. That would go through leon. And leon has every,

879
01:11:26,335 --> 01:11:30,285
every approval authority to, to do that. So again, we've, we've said we are willing

880
01:11:30,585 --> 01:11:34,465
to, to go with the alternative material sizes, but we, we,

881
01:11:34,785 --> 01:11:38,555
and spec specifically, leon cannot sign off on that. I mean, he, he's

882
01:11:38,845 --> 01:11:42,765
an engineer. He has a license. He has to, you know, his has his own

883
01:11:42,985 --> 01:11:46,975
set of, of laws that they, they have on that. So, uh, again,

884
01:11:47,385 --> 01:11:51,285
we, we can support alternative specifications, um, but we cannot

885
01:11:51,435 --> 01:11:54,725
support a request to approve those without any kind of documentation.

886
01:11:55,905 --> 01:11:59,725
and so, right here on the screen where it says, staff recommends approval of alternative culvert

887
01:12:00,245 --> 01:12:04,235
specifications as allowed by city code and approved by city engineer once updated, blah,

888
01:12:04,525 --> 01:12:08,525
blah, blah, as of tonight, you don't have those plans

889
01:12:08,865 --> 01:12:12,605
in hand to where a motion towards that could even be effective.

890
01:12:13,065 --> 01:12:14,395
is that correct? Correct. Okay.

891
01:12:20,425 --> 01:12:24,045
so I guess this one's a little, this one's a little interesting. Um, your motion

892
01:12:24,445 --> 01:12:27,325
could be a couple of options. You could, you could approve,

893
01:12:28,505 --> 01:12:32,205
um, the requested waiver to allow the specifications

894
01:12:32,995 --> 01:12:36,765
without any documentation. Um, you could,

895
01:12:37,905 --> 01:12:41,365
uh, recommend denial of the, of the request without

896
01:12:42,085 --> 01:12:46,025
documentation. Um, but that if documentation was provided, you

897
01:12:46,245 --> 01:12:50,005
would allow city staff to sign off as normal. So this one's a a little

898
01:12:50,405 --> 01:12:54,155
interesting, but, um, staff cannot sign off on any changes without,

899
01:12:54,645 --> 01:12:58,195
without new plans. I, I think, um, mr. Lutz,

900
01:12:59,325 --> 01:13:03,325
I think if the code allows staff to approve with the updated plans, I think you're

901
01:13:03,485 --> 01:13:07,155
gonna get the same effect from denying as you are from approving

902
01:13:08,305 --> 01:13:11,525
the recommendation to allow staff to approve with updated plans.

903
01:13:12,585 --> 01:13:16,445
so I think we, we stick with our general motion of, uh, recommend acceptance

904
01:13:16,805 --> 01:13:17,285
or recommend denial.

905
01:13:21,825 --> 01:13:25,485
and to clarify, when you say two recommended, we're voting, we're voting on what is being presented,

906
01:13:25,935 --> 01:13:29,405
we're not, uh, voting on what could be presented in the future.

907
01:13:30,515 --> 01:13:34,165
correct. That was,

908
01:13:34,625 --> 01:13:36,125
uh, that's where I was going. So we're good.

909
01:13:40,335 --> 01:13:44,285
would anyone like to bring microphone? Would anyone like to bring a motion

910
01:13:44,825 --> 01:13:48,685
for this? One more question, if you don't mind, ma'am, I don't mind.

911
01:13:50,145 --> 01:13:53,795
are we allowed to take action to recommend that the plans already on file

912
01:13:56,025 --> 01:13:59,925
remain? Like, is that an option where we keep the status quo? If they,

913
01:14:00,385 --> 01:14:04,205
if you have plans on file that we stick to those plans? That would, I would

914
01:14:04,405 --> 01:14:08,325
say would be a recommendation of denial, yes. Yes. That's, that's a denial recommendation. Okay.

915
01:14:08,605 --> 01:14:11,685
thank you. I have approved plans and I, I plan to use those.

916
01:14:16,065 --> 01:14:19,925
I'm sorry, sir. Could you clarify? You have approved plans as in what has already been approved plans,

917
01:14:20,345 --> 01:14:24,205
and I plan to use those, which would

918
01:14:24,365 --> 01:14:28,165
be plans that have been stamped, signed by licensed engineer that's already on file with the city,

919
01:14:28,625 --> 01:14:32,065
the engineer. They're signed by y'all's engineer approved by, uh,

920
01:14:32,645 --> 01:14:36,645
whatever the process is here. And, uh, I've gotta get this thing finished. If y'all want help

921
01:14:36,845 --> 01:14:40,765
me, I'll just go up alone. I'll put it in the concrete pipes. I'll do what I have to do, but I've

922
01:14:40,965 --> 01:14:44,345
gotta get this project finished. I'm an elderly person

923
01:14:45,145 --> 01:14:49,045
and I've gotta get it done.

924
01:14:49,505 --> 01:14:53,445
so, and, and so you would follow don't, I don't want this group deck to reneg

925
01:14:53,725 --> 01:14:57,685
on the plans I have that are approved, so please don't. And so

926
01:14:57,845 --> 01:15:01,725
the plans that are currently approved, you would follow them to include the culverts, the

927
01:15:02,105 --> 01:15:06,065
piping that's already outlined in that I've gotta get it done. Yeah. And then any

928
01:15:06,445 --> 01:15:10,325
action by us tonight to deny the request would default back to the

929
01:15:10,605 --> 01:15:14,605
approved plans, is that correct? Um, I think that's a good way to put, yeah. So any action you

930
01:15:14,805 --> 01:15:18,445
take tonight will be forwarded to counsel. Counsel will take that action.

931
01:15:18,865 --> 01:15:22,845
if they follow your suit and deny it, then yes, it, it, it goes back to the approved

932
01:15:22,885 --> 01:15:26,615
plans. Madam

933
01:15:26,965 --> 01:15:30,665
chair, motion to recommend denial of this exception. Second.

934
01:15:32,195 --> 01:15:35,995
okay. We have a motion to recommend denial of exception

935
01:15:36,705 --> 01:15:40,685
two about the culvert specifications made by commissioner copeland and seconded

936
01:15:41,165 --> 01:15:44,285
by vice chair stegel. Is there any discussion on that one?

937
01:15:47,425 --> 01:15:51,205
um, I, I think I understand the logic

938
01:15:51,945 --> 01:15:55,605
behind wanting to deviate from the plans, but I also understand

939
01:15:56,595 --> 01:16:00,445
that while we may not always see it, there's value in following the process and doing

940
01:16:00,685 --> 01:16:04,485
things according to the process. Mm-hmm . Um, and I think that's

941
01:16:04,805 --> 01:16:08,045
what's important here. Uh, it seems the city's open to other,

942
01:16:08,895 --> 01:16:12,285
other alternatives as long as it follows the correct process.

943
01:16:13,545 --> 01:16:17,245
um, so in that, in that light, I support the denial,

944
01:16:17,825 --> 01:16:21,485
um, so that we can follow the correct process if we wanna make a change in the plans.

945
01:16:24,825 --> 01:16:28,645
and then similar with that first motion that we did, I have not heard any special

946
01:16:28,885 --> 01:16:32,325
circumstance or condition that would allow for us to issue that exception.

947
01:16:33,565 --> 01:16:37,275
I haven't seen anything. Uh, I think we, we have heard about the risk

948
01:16:37,665 --> 01:16:41,445
of flooding and social welfare by granting the exception.

949
01:16:42,185 --> 01:16:46,125
um, but for the third item, again, I, I don't see how granting this would prevent the

950
01:16:46,285 --> 01:16:50,055
orderly subdividing subdividing of other land. And so since

951
01:16:50,405 --> 01:16:54,115
we have not met two of the three, that is the basis of my motion to deny

952
01:16:57,125 --> 01:17:00,085
. Okay. Any other discussion

953
01:17:01,545 --> 01:17:05,195
on the motion? Okay.

954
01:17:05,775 --> 01:17:09,485
let's go ahead and take a vote on that one. Again, this is a motion to recommend denial

955
01:17:09,905 --> 01:17:13,545
of exception number two related to culvert specifications. Um,

956
01:17:13,945 --> 01:17:17,345
all those in favor of recommending denial, please say aye. Aye. Aye.

957
01:17:18,265 --> 01:17:22,225
aye. All opposed say nay. Okay. Um,

958
01:17:22,515 --> 01:17:26,415
that one's cleared. Next we have the exceptions pertaining

959
01:17:27,085 --> 01:17:30,835
to sidewalk. So we have four of these. Um, does

960
01:17:31,125 --> 01:17:35,065
staff want us to break them into four separate motions? Yes. I'd like to, uh,

961
01:17:35,285 --> 01:17:39,205
look at three a and three b items. Um, so staff has looked

962
01:17:39,405 --> 01:17:42,925
at these, um, staff recommends approval of, of these requests

963
01:17:43,735 --> 01:17:47,125
slash exceptions. Um, again, the first one is because,

964
01:17:47,785 --> 01:17:51,465
uh, we have existing infrastructure on veterans. Um, it was

965
01:17:52,005 --> 01:17:55,765
approved as part of the overlay. And if you recall through your training overlays,

966
01:17:56,325 --> 01:18:00,325
you can reduce some of your, your requirements through code as part of

967
01:18:00,405 --> 01:18:04,025
the overlays. And so, um, again, staff will support that one

968
01:18:04,445 --> 01:18:08,125
because it was under some previous approvals. But we wanted to add this layer

969
01:18:08,585 --> 01:18:12,245
in here as well. Uh, when it comes to eliminate the sidewalks along barbie

970
01:18:12,605 --> 01:18:16,445
street, again, from woods to veterans, um, we also support this request.

971
01:18:16,815 --> 01:18:20,765
again, we are closing that right of way, um, or we're not abandoning the right

972
01:18:20,965 --> 01:18:24,615
of way, but we are closing the street. Um, and because you have adjacent pedestrian

973
01:18:26,365 --> 01:18:30,085
crossing literally 10 feet away, um, we feel that that's not a life safety

974
01:18:30,375 --> 01:18:34,285
issue. So we do recommend approval of both of these exceptions or requests.

975
01:18:37,335 --> 01:18:41,125
madam chair, I'd like to make a motion. Do we approve, uh, the exceptions

976
01:18:41,615 --> 01:18:45,355
three a and three b. Okay, I'll

977
01:18:45,645 --> 01:18:49,445
second. Okay. We have a motion to recommend approval of exceptions three

978
01:18:49,845 --> 01:18:53,825
a and three b from commissioner hildreth and a second from commissioner webb. So

979
01:18:54,065 --> 01:18:54,925
any discussion on that one?

980
01:18:58,315 --> 01:19:02,285
okay. All those in favor of recommending approval, please. I'm sorry, chair had some

981
01:19:02,445 --> 01:19:06,125
discussion there just to make sure we round it out. Yeah, perfect. Go. My microphone's

982
01:19:06,645 --> 01:19:10,165
not on. Um, so going down that same list, just to be consistent,

983
01:19:12,825 --> 01:19:16,715
we have the special

984
01:19:17,205 --> 01:19:20,845
circumstance. I don't love that we're reducing the width

985
01:19:21,265 --> 01:19:25,065
of the sidewalk. I think the five inch, the, sorry, five foot is

986
01:19:25,285 --> 01:19:28,845
appropriate. However, if the city's already previously granted

987
01:19:29,905 --> 01:19:33,905
an exception there, and as part of the existing cup, it would be unfair to

988
01:19:34,125 --> 01:19:37,895
an applicant for the city to backtrack on previously approved plans.

989
01:19:38,245 --> 01:19:41,565
mm-hmm . So I think that does rise to the level of a special circumstance

990
01:19:42,305 --> 01:19:46,085
has been met. I have heard nothing tonight to indicate that the

991
01:19:46,485 --> 01:19:50,285
reduction from five foot to four foot would cause any kind of debt detriment to public

992
01:19:50,565 --> 01:19:53,945
health, safety, welfare, et cetera. And

993
01:19:55,685 --> 01:19:59,605
reducing that sidewalk width does not, in my opinion, alter our ability

994
01:19:59,905 --> 01:20:03,325
to subdivide further land. So I think in this case, we've met all three requirements.

995
01:20:04,385 --> 01:20:08,275
um, and so I am also in support of that. Okay.

996
01:20:10,265 --> 01:20:12,125
any other, uh, discussion on the motion?

997
01:20:15,235 --> 01:20:18,925
okay. This motion is to recommend approval of exceptions

998
01:20:19,405 --> 01:20:22,865
three a and three b. All those in favor of recommending approval, please say

999
01:20:23,425 --> 01:20:26,785
aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. I nay.

1000
01:20:27,995 --> 01:20:31,945
okay. Those are approved. And then we've got, um,

1001
01:20:32,535 --> 01:20:36,365
three c. This is about sidewalk crossings over drainage

1002
01:20:36,885 --> 01:20:40,805
ditches. So, um, I guess I just wanna clarify, we're talking

1003
01:20:40,965 --> 01:20:44,925
about both the north and south crossings. This will be all

1004
01:20:45,125 --> 01:20:49,125
three. All three of 'em. All three, okay. Um, and so

1005
01:20:49,455 --> 01:20:53,165
again, this is all three crossings and reducing

1006
01:20:53,825 --> 01:20:57,685
the sidewalks width from five to four feet for the newly installed

1007
01:20:58,045 --> 01:21:02,045
ones, that was my question. That would be along, don't exist yet, right?

1008
01:21:02,265 --> 01:21:06,245
and barbie? Yes. So that, that's up to the commission. If you wanna vote on them separately,

1009
01:21:06,545 --> 01:21:10,325
you can do so. If you want to take the same action on both, you can make that a single motion.

1010
01:21:14,545 --> 01:21:18,205
mr. Lutz, for the existing plans that have been approved

1011
01:21:18,625 --> 01:21:22,445
to date, does it include all three crossings as depicted

1012
01:21:23,005 --> 01:21:25,125
on our packet? Yes, sir. Thank you.

1013
01:21:30,245 --> 01:21:34,205
I guess I have one other question about, sorry, this just came to my mind. I should have asked

1014
01:21:34,325 --> 01:21:37,845
earlier when it was staff time. Um, so for these ditch crossings

1015
01:21:38,825 --> 01:21:42,195
on the image that we were shown earlier today, those, those ditches

1016
01:21:42,905 --> 01:21:46,645
are rather shallow. So for these ditch

1017
01:21:47,205 --> 01:21:50,765
crossings, is it just simply making the, the level

1018
01:21:51,275 --> 01:21:54,985
even with the pavement on either side? So just a, a few inches higher, or

1019
01:21:55,505 --> 01:21:59,165
is there a special like engineering that goes into kind of

1020
01:21:59,665 --> 01:22:03,485
making a little hump or, um, I don't, I'm not aware

1021
01:22:03,725 --> 01:22:07,285
of the engineering behind it, but I know they've, they've been reviewed and approved.

1022
01:22:08,365 --> 01:22:12,045
reviewed and approved. Okay. So they are in there. Um, when we talk about the shallowness,

1023
01:22:12,785 --> 01:22:16,275
um, so yes, the southern one, very shallow. Um, that

1024
01:22:17,005 --> 01:22:20,905
crossing is, is not gonna be very much, but the, the crossing's on, on

1025
01:22:21,225 --> 01:22:24,385
blanco, um, especially the one north crossing barbie

1026
01:22:25,275 --> 01:22:29,185
next to blanco, those, those are fairly deep there. Um, so

1027
01:22:29,605 --> 01:22:33,485
I think that was an 18 inch culvert. Um, so it's definitely deeper than that. So that

1028
01:22:33,745 --> 01:22:37,525
one, most likely, there's a couple ways you can do it. Uh, culverts, I've

1029
01:22:37,765 --> 01:22:41,685
seen some the concrete thicker with reinforced steel. Um, but whatever's

1030
01:22:41,925 --> 01:22:45,855
been approved in the plans would, would be approved. I

1031
01:22:45,975 --> 01:22:49,685
hate to intervene, but there is only two crossings here. What

1032
01:22:50,175 --> 01:22:54,115
crossings are you talking about? There's only two, uh, I'm, I consider the

1033
01:22:54,355 --> 01:22:57,295
one between, um, from the green

1034
01:22:58,535 --> 01:23:02,295
sidewalk. Um, do you see that connection from, from veterans that goes

1035
01:23:02,755 --> 01:23:06,725
to the sidewalk on blanco, I believe. Right there, I think is a

1036
01:23:06,845 --> 01:23:10,605
portion of the drainage. So I think it, it kind of connects there, if I

1037
01:23:11,005 --> 01:23:14,645
remember correctly. And, uh, there's not a, there's not a bridge over the ditch

1038
01:23:15,515 --> 01:23:19,115
that blanco blanco, uh, the city, another

1039
01:23:19,785 --> 01:23:23,485
one of your departments has already waved that saying it crosses in the middle of the,

1040
01:23:24,505 --> 01:23:28,115
the middle of the block, which makes it jaywalking. And, and they,

1041
01:23:28,995 --> 01:23:32,415
that section doesn't, whatever department

1042
01:23:33,105 --> 01:23:37,065
is that they wave that. So we looks looking at the north barb and

1043
01:23:37,285 --> 01:23:41,085
the south barb across, there's no, there's no bridge across the ditch

1044
01:23:41,565 --> 01:23:44,805
on blanco street. Okay. Thank you.

1045
01:23:49,105 --> 01:23:52,705
so to confirm with the plans that are signed

1046
01:23:53,625 --> 01:23:57,485
and stamped by a licensed engineer that are on file with the city, that is where

1047
01:23:57,645 --> 01:24:01,645
this image is from. We have crossings over,

1048
01:24:02,225 --> 01:24:06,025
I'm gonna call it north and south, which are both along barbie

1049
01:24:06,445 --> 01:24:09,755
street, correct? The one that is, I'm gonna call east,

1050
01:24:11,055 --> 01:24:14,845
connecting veterans to blanco. It sounds like

1051
01:24:15,085 --> 01:24:19,085
there was debate a minute ago over whether that exists or not. I,

1052
01:24:19,865 --> 01:24:23,765
my question is, um, I think there was an originally, if it's hard to see

1053
01:24:23,885 --> 01:24:27,575
on that image at the, where the blue line and the red line meets

1054
01:24:27,925 --> 01:24:31,485
on blanco, those two sidewalk connections. I think originally they were talking about putting

1055
01:24:32,145 --> 01:24:35,825
an actual crosswalk, like, hey, we're gonna put

1056
01:24:36,245 --> 01:24:39,935
a ramp and this is where someone would come from the other side. That one was waved.

1057
01:24:40,755 --> 01:24:44,605
what I'm talking about is from the green to the red, that little run right

1058
01:24:44,925 --> 01:24:48,525
there. Um, I can't remember if that is,

1059
01:24:48,965 --> 01:24:52,805
I believe that is flat enough that can make that connection. And I think that's

1060
01:24:53,305 --> 01:24:57,205
inside the other drainage ditch there. If I,

1061
01:24:57,345 --> 01:24:57,965
if I remember.

1062
01:25:02,425 --> 01:25:06,365
and so a pedestrian walking along blanco street on that red section there

1063
01:25:07,495 --> 01:25:09,955
could continue northwest,

1064
01:25:12,825 --> 01:25:16,805
at least northwest on this plane. I'll assume it's north south directing right now. It may

1065
01:25:17,005 --> 01:25:19,915
not be, but could continue northwest walking

1066
01:25:21,035 --> 01:25:25,005
into the green line off veterans. Is that correct? Or do they have to cross if they

1067
01:25:25,085 --> 01:25:29,045
utilize that blue section there? And so if the blue section does not exist, they could

1068
01:25:29,305 --> 01:25:33,085
not walk from the red to the green, you on the unmapped

1069
01:25:33,645 --> 01:25:37,545
area, correct. It, it, it, you have to cross over the blue. Correct. All

1070
01:25:37,765 --> 01:25:40,805
of all of these are sidewalk connections. Okay. Thank you.

1071
01:25:50,185 --> 01:25:53,475
are there other questions for staff on that one? Okay,

1072
01:25:55,345 --> 01:25:58,995
we need a motion, um, to discuss

1073
01:25:59,485 --> 01:26:03,455
and take action. Um, again, we can do this as three

1074
01:26:03,925 --> 01:26:07,485
c and 3d together, or one at a time. It depends on

1075
01:26:08,305 --> 01:26:12,285
the motion you wish to make. Madam chair, I'd like to make the

1076
01:26:12,445 --> 01:26:15,565
motion that we deny items three c and 3d

1077
01:26:17,185 --> 01:26:20,145
and follow status recommendations. Second.

1078
01:26:21,435 --> 01:26:25,405
okay. We have a motion to recommend denial of three c and 3d

1079
01:26:26,235 --> 01:26:30,145
from commissioner hildreth and seconded by commissioner webb. Is

1080
01:26:30,365 --> 01:26:32,085
there any discussion on that?

1081
01:26:35,465 --> 01:26:38,165
go ahead. Lemme pull up that section again.

1082
01:26:39,745 --> 01:26:43,605
so I have not heard of a special circumstance or condition affecting

1083
01:26:44,085 --> 01:26:48,025
that land to grant that waiver, especially noting that we have

1084
01:26:48,175 --> 01:26:52,105
already on file signed stamped engineering reports that include that

1085
01:26:54,445 --> 01:26:58,145
the grantings of this exception would not be detrimental to the public health, safety

1086
01:26:58,725 --> 01:27:02,155
or welfare. I don't know that we have met that burden if we are talking about

1087
01:27:03,005 --> 01:27:06,935
school children walking along that sidewalk crossing over ditches, that

1088
01:27:07,225 --> 01:27:10,015
does seem like a public safety or welfare concern.

1089
01:27:11,495 --> 01:27:14,785
however, the granting of the exception would not have the effect of preventing orderly subdividing.

1090
01:27:16,145 --> 01:27:20,085
I think the applicant has met that requirement. I don't see a reason why that would be a basis of

1091
01:27:20,405 --> 01:27:24,365
denial, but because two of the three have not been met, I'm gonna vote in

1092
01:27:24,585 --> 01:27:25,745
favor of denying this request.

1093
01:27:30,285 --> 01:27:33,935
um, I'll add some perspective from the community

1094
01:27:34,545 --> 01:27:38,315
of plum creek. Um, we have two small lakes

1095
01:27:38,875 --> 01:27:42,585
ponds, um, with a trail that goes in the figure eight around

1096
01:27:42,985 --> 01:27:46,345
them. Um, for a long time that trail was unfinished. It was dirt trail,

1097
01:27:47,405 --> 01:27:51,385
um, about two, three years ago. Um, we made it

1098
01:27:51,545 --> 01:27:55,265
a big priority to finish that trail. And the big debate was, do you make the

1099
01:27:55,745 --> 01:27:59,285
sidewalk four feet wide, five feet wide, or six feet wide? Um,

1100
01:28:01,275 --> 01:28:04,765
after a lot of upset conversations and

1101
01:28:05,285 --> 01:28:09,265
people, we came around to five feet wide was the answer. The argument

1102
01:28:09,465 --> 01:28:13,465
for four feet wide is, I don't want to encourage a whole bunch of people to be

1103
01:28:13,585 --> 01:28:17,385
on there with strollers and bikes and things like that. It just, it, it couldn't just

1104
01:28:17,605 --> 01:28:21,465
sit too much. And the argument for five feet wide was, isn't that the point of having that

1105
01:28:21,705 --> 01:28:25,625
trail there? Um, and so let's make it as walkable

1106
01:28:26,145 --> 01:28:29,245
as possible. I I say that in the context of

1107
01:28:30,455 --> 01:28:34,305
it's been a big priority for the city and on every city survey and from

1108
01:28:34,585 --> 01:28:37,985
every, uh, from just about every person that sits on city council

1109
01:28:38,885 --> 01:28:42,625
to increase walkability in our city. And there is a massive difference

1110
01:28:43,575 --> 01:28:47,565
between four feet and five feet in accomplishing that goal. Um,

1111
01:28:49,005 --> 01:28:52,345
so which would address 3d on three c,

1112
01:28:53,155 --> 01:28:56,905
connecting these sidewalks, I think is also a really big part of walkability.

1113
01:28:58,205 --> 01:29:02,105
um, and so that is kind of my basis for, uh,

1114
01:29:02,745 --> 01:29:06,725
voting in favor of the denial as well. I'd like to interject

1115
01:29:07,045 --> 01:29:11,045
a piece of information that's been admitted, uh, by the city. If you cross the street,

1116
01:29:11,255 --> 01:29:15,125
there are no sidewalks over there. There's a dirt ditch and nothing over there.

1117
01:29:15,515 --> 01:29:18,945
there's no, no sidewalks across blanco

1118
01:29:19,585 --> 01:29:23,445
and across, uh, barbie. So going there is gonna

1119
01:29:23,665 --> 01:29:26,645
get you to nowhere as far as footpath goes.

1120
01:29:36,435 --> 01:29:40,285
vice chair, I thought I saw your finger over the button. Were you doing that to vote

1121
01:29:40,485 --> 01:29:44,365
or did you have a comment? I was also scratching my eye, but oh, .

1122
01:29:45,275 --> 01:29:48,905
okay. Okay. Um,

1123
01:29:50,185 --> 01:29:54,165
so yeah, this one for me, this one's, um, interesting.

1124
01:29:55,205 --> 01:29:59,205
I definitely see the need for the ditch crossings on the north side of

1125
01:29:59,285 --> 01:30:03,225
the property along blanco, uh, barbie and veterans. I think that's important for

1126
01:30:04,115 --> 01:30:06,785
circulation. Um, the

1127
01:30:08,765 --> 01:30:11,845
southernmost ditch crossing the one that's quite shallow,

1128
01:30:12,945 --> 01:30:16,905
um, and connecting onto a, a small segment of,

1129
01:30:17,345 --> 01:30:20,785
um, sidewalk there in the red. Um,

1130
01:30:22,725 --> 01:30:26,665
I don't foresee that one getting a lot of use. So I might've been able to,

1131
01:30:27,745 --> 01:30:31,585
you know, get behind exempting from that section of sidewalk and

1132
01:30:31,805 --> 01:30:35,625
that ditch crossing, especially 'cause the road beyond there is

1133
01:30:35,845 --> 01:30:38,865
going to be closed and there won't be a sidewalk beyond it. So

1134
01:30:40,085 --> 01:30:43,585
I do think that that one is kind of wasteful and, um,

1135
01:30:45,595 --> 01:30:49,565
unnecessary. But, uh, the two northern most crossings

1136
01:30:49,885 --> 01:30:53,685
I think are important for circulation, given the school children that are gonna be passing through there

1137
01:30:54,305 --> 01:30:57,265
and moving them back and forth twice a day. Um,

1138
01:30:58,745 --> 01:31:02,645
but since we've, we've done this all as one, I am at this point in favor of supporting

1139
01:31:03,385 --> 01:31:04,315
the motion to deny.

1140
01:31:07,675 --> 01:31:11,445
just to clarify my, my reasoning on this, I am a firm believer

1141
01:31:11,985 --> 01:31:15,885
in avoiding setting precedents that might be adverse, uh, to future

1142
01:31:16,125 --> 01:31:20,065
development. Um, absent any, you

1143
01:31:20,285 --> 01:31:24,225
know, any mitigating circumstances that, that, uh, that justify us

1144
01:31:24,445 --> 01:31:28,445
waiving, uh, those requirements, I cannot, you know, I have

1145
01:31:28,645 --> 01:31:30,245
to support, I have to support denying that request.

1146
01:31:34,745 --> 01:31:35,685
we have to do our due diligence.

1147
01:31:39,185 --> 01:31:43,125
my thought is that we have to take into consideration that this is an area that's

1148
01:31:43,485 --> 01:31:47,325
in flux in terms of development, that there will be a lot more pedestrian

1149
01:31:47,885 --> 01:31:51,525
traffic. Um, we already see what's going on in terms of sidewalk development

1150
01:31:52,205 --> 01:31:56,025
safety zones down near the kyle elementary. Um, we

1151
01:31:56,245 --> 01:32:00,205
have the, the, uh, middle school on the other side of

1152
01:32:00,565 --> 01:32:04,525
veterans. This whole area, the character of it's beginning to change great gardens coming

1153
01:32:04,685 --> 01:32:08,145
online in entire area. I think we need to do what we need to do to

1154
01:32:08,765 --> 01:32:12,405
maximize, uh, pedestrian and auto safety and, uh, appropriate

1155
01:32:12,845 --> 01:32:16,685
drainage so that that does not become a, uh, uh, a problem

1156
01:32:17,105 --> 01:32:21,045
in that area. This is an area that's in change for sure,

1157
01:32:21,865 --> 01:32:25,465
but I think, uh, the plans the city has, uh, so far approved, uh,

1158
01:32:26,105 --> 01:32:29,765
um, put us in the direction of accommodating those changes

1159
01:32:30,185 --> 01:32:34,145
for the future. And

1160
01:32:34,365 --> 01:32:38,285
that was one of the reasons I asked about the wa protest, uh, process. And there,

1161
01:32:38,635 --> 01:32:42,075
looking at the, the letter, there is a procedure in place that

1162
01:32:43,045 --> 01:32:46,885
stimulates a waiver protest. Um, and the, the applicant

1163
01:32:47,245 --> 01:32:50,145
has, has cited, they don't, they don't wish to go that route. So,

1164
01:32:54,355 --> 01:32:58,185
okay. Any other, uh, comments on the motion, gentlemen? No.

1165
01:32:58,875 --> 01:33:02,565
okay. So, uh, to restate, the motion on the table is to

1166
01:33:03,045 --> 01:33:06,885
recommend to counsel denial of exception request three c

1167
01:33:07,185 --> 01:33:10,905
and 3d. All those in favor of recommending denial, please say

1168
01:33:11,225 --> 01:33:14,705
aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed say nay.

1169
01:33:16,315 --> 01:33:20,055
okay. That one is done. Thank you, mr. Lutz. Thank

1170
01:33:20,405 --> 01:33:24,405
you, chairman. Thank you, madam chair, just to confirm, we voted on three a.

1171
01:33:24,525 --> 01:33:28,405
we did three a and b together. Yeah. Cool. Those are my notes. Two, but

1172
01:33:28,565 --> 01:33:32,255
no, we missed one, one month and so I wanted to make sure we didn't do that again. , thank

1173
01:33:32,605 --> 01:33:36,405
you for making sure our, our t's are crossed and our I's are dotted. We appreciate that.

1174
01:33:36,815 --> 01:33:40,515
thank you. Okay. Alright. Next

1175
01:33:40,865 --> 01:33:44,665
up we've got, um, consider approval of a conditional use permit for

1176
01:33:44,885 --> 01:33:48,605
a proposed public restroom facility located at 1 0 1 south burleson

1177
01:33:49,165 --> 01:33:52,645
street. Mary kyle hartson park, cup dash 26

1178
01:33:53,595 --> 01:33:54,035
dash 0 1 5 5.

1179
01:34:02,415 --> 01:34:06,085
sorry, bear with me a moment. Lemme get this synced up.

1180
01:34:06,975 --> 01:34:10,965
there we go. Alright. All right. Good evening commissioners. I'm angel

1181
01:34:11,235 --> 01:34:15,065
nine senior planner. Um, this is for a conditional use permit for

1182
01:34:15,325 --> 01:34:18,725
a new bathroom facility over here at mary kyle hartson park.

1183
01:34:20,905 --> 01:34:24,495
um, this is a city project. This is through the parks and recreation department.

1184
01:34:25,545 --> 01:34:29,525
um, I would like to point out that will atkinson from parks and rec is here. Um, and he

1185
01:34:29,645 --> 01:34:33,445
can help answer any questions, um, at the end. Um, so this will be a single

1186
01:34:33,775 --> 01:34:37,725
phase project for a brand new bathroom. I really hate to do this, but we don't have a quorum in the

1187
01:34:37,805 --> 01:34:41,805
room currently. We're gonna need a recess until we have a quorum in the room. Okay. We are meeting

1188
01:34:42,165 --> 01:34:45,935
exact, we are recess. Thank you for pointing that out. So, uh, while

1189
01:34:46,285 --> 01:34:49,665
we are recessed, can I ask you, so if we have someone virtually, but

1190
01:34:50,505 --> 01:34:54,275
on the dais, we don't have enough physical bodies? That's right. Form. Okay.

1191
01:34:54,625 --> 01:34:58,485
for anybody not located within at least three counties, which we are not, um, you must

1192
01:34:58,645 --> 01:35:01,325
have a quorum present at the diocese in order to have the meeting,

1193
01:35:02,665 --> 01:35:05,275
or at least in the room. Okay. Well,

1194
01:35:06,805 --> 01:35:10,645
I guess I, we've been here for a little while so I could maybe we wanna take a recess and let everybody

1195
01:35:10,845 --> 01:35:14,385
go to the bathroom and then we go break. Yeah, let's meet back at,

1196
01:35:15,385 --> 01:35:19,305
um, what do y'all think? Eight 15 is that way

1197
01:35:19,525 --> 01:35:23,525
too much time? 15. I go eight 10. That's fine.

1198
01:35:24,095 --> 01:35:28,035
let's do 8 10, 8 10. It is, yeah.

1199
01:35:28,595 --> 01:35:30,205
okay. So be it.

1200
01:35:34,695 --> 01:35:38,695
back to the, uh, mary kyle harson park c um, this

1201
01:35:38,985 --> 01:35:41,255
is going to be a 600 foot public rest,

1202
01:35:46,215 --> 01:35:50,185
oops, sorry, , um, a water fountain as well as additional outdoor

1203
01:35:50,735 --> 01:35:52,745
seating that are, um, a da compliance.

1204
01:35:55,285 --> 01:35:59,225
um, here's a more detailed summary. Um, the site is in both the I 35

1205
01:35:59,775 --> 01:36:03,645
overlay and center street overlay districts, um, for new

1206
01:36:03,945 --> 01:36:07,865
projects, new construction in the overlay districts. Um, they are required

1207
01:36:07,985 --> 01:36:11,785
to come through with a cup for aesthetics, um, the architectural

1208
01:36:12,385 --> 01:36:16,225
renderings and so forth for the exterior of the buildings. Uh, the

1209
01:36:16,425 --> 01:36:20,305
I 35 overlay district does have some standards, um, for the

1210
01:36:20,745 --> 01:36:23,825
exterior. The proposed project meets those standards.

1211
01:36:24,765 --> 01:36:28,765
um, the restroom facade is almost a hundred percent brick masonry. Um,

1212
01:36:29,235 --> 01:36:32,965
brick maner around the entire building, um, with the small stucco

1213
01:36:33,385 --> 01:36:37,185
detail. And it has a standing seam and it's proposed to have a standing seam metal roof.

1214
01:36:38,725 --> 01:36:41,845
um, additional sidewalks decomposed granite, um,

1215
01:36:42,745 --> 01:36:46,745
adjacent to the oak trees on site. Um, and additional seating are going

1216
01:36:46,945 --> 01:36:50,825
to be incorporated. And additionally, native landscaping will include

1217
01:36:51,145 --> 01:36:55,065
the installation of over 80 shrubs and ornamental grasses as well

1218
01:36:55,265 --> 01:36:58,745
as a tree. Um, this project came through to city council,

1219
01:36:59,405 --> 01:37:03,365
um, which approved the contract for design and construction of the restroom back on

1220
01:37:03,585 --> 01:37:07,545
january 20th of this year. And the building facade has preliminary

1221
01:37:08,425 --> 01:37:12,405
approval, um, by the texas historic commission, uh, since the project is

1222
01:37:12,625 --> 01:37:14,215
located in a historic site.

1223
01:37:16,765 --> 01:37:20,695
um, over here is the site plan. I know it's a little bit hard to see some of those details.

1224
01:37:21,925 --> 01:37:25,705
um, that's the overall site plan. And on the next slide you can see that

1225
01:37:26,025 --> 01:37:30,005
a little bit better in color and you can see more of the landscape details. The

1226
01:37:30,225 --> 01:37:34,105
decomposed granite area with the picnic tables are shown as well

1227
01:37:34,265 --> 01:37:38,225
as the little, um, the planting area as well and the, uh, new sidewalks that are

1228
01:37:38,505 --> 01:37:42,485
proposed. On this slide, we have the

1229
01:37:42,955 --> 01:37:46,785
three dimensional rendering of what the restroom facility is going to look

1230
01:37:46,985 --> 01:37:50,885
like. Um, you can see the water fountain at the front there, um,

1231
01:37:51,405 --> 01:37:53,625
and the brick that surrounds the entire building.

1232
01:37:57,465 --> 01:38:01,155
um, and here are the elevations. Um, that's the front facing view

1233
01:38:01,865 --> 01:38:05,615
and side view. And then on the next slide

1234
01:38:05,975 --> 01:38:09,205
we've got the rear view and then the, the other side of the building

1235
01:38:12,745 --> 01:38:16,685
and staff have reviewed the request and found the proposal to be compliant

1236
01:38:16,925 --> 01:38:19,965
with the I 35 and center street overlay district regulations,

1237
01:38:21,145 --> 01:38:24,765
as well as other applicable city codes. Uh, staff recommends

1238
01:38:25,245 --> 01:38:28,925
approval of the conditional use permit, um, with texas historic commission providing

1239
01:38:29,485 --> 01:38:33,435
the final approval. And the commissioners have

1240
01:38:33,815 --> 01:38:37,665
these three following options, um, to approve the cop as

1241
01:38:37,885 --> 01:38:41,785
presented. Um, approve the cop with conditions or

1242
01:38:42,145 --> 01:38:46,085
to deny the cop. And I'm happy to answer

1243
01:38:46,285 --> 01:38:50,205
any questions. And if I can't answer anything, um, will, can help me out

1244
01:38:50,325 --> 01:38:54,025
too. I would have a question about the planting area. Uhhuh, and the sidewalk. You're

1245
01:38:54,445 --> 01:38:58,365
not, this, the current sidewalk's gonna remain there and the

1246
01:38:58,685 --> 01:39:00,715
planting area will be hard up against it then.

1247
01:39:02,785 --> 01:39:06,415
um, lemme go back to the slide. Yeah, you're gonna have to go back. Yes, there

1248
01:39:07,155 --> 01:39:11,065
this slide. Um, so

1249
01:39:11,365 --> 01:39:15,085
I see from the corner down the lower right corner, that would be the sidewalk heading towards

1250
01:39:15,465 --> 01:39:19,405
the gazebo and into the center of the park. The planning area would be

1251
01:39:19,525 --> 01:39:23,345
hard up against that sidewalk opposite the gazebo. Oh,

1252
01:39:23,565 --> 01:39:27,505
that's a good question. And, and the gazebo access to the gazebo

1253
01:39:27,925 --> 01:39:29,325
and so forth, nothing's gonna be compromised.

1254
01:39:32,115 --> 01:39:35,705
correct? To my knowledge. Okay. Um,

1255
01:39:36,605 --> 01:39:40,605
I walk that today. Ideally I love that park. Ideally it wouldn't be

1256
01:39:40,685 --> 01:39:44,625
in the, that square block. I understand why, but I ideally it

1257
01:39:44,845 --> 01:39:48,805
wouldn't be, I it's real cramped in that corner of the

1258
01:39:49,005 --> 01:39:53,005
park and, um, it's the only

1259
01:39:53,165 --> 01:39:57,005
place to put it there, frankly, as far as I can see. But I would hope that they would be very

1260
01:39:57,555 --> 01:40:01,355
careful about impinging on that sidewalk. And the act flow

1261
01:40:01,645 --> 01:40:05,625
of activity around the gazebo, that is a place where people do gather. In

1262
01:40:05,845 --> 01:40:07,265
fact, um,

1263
01:40:15,055 --> 01:40:16,165
there are other questions for staff.

1264
01:40:19,585 --> 01:40:23,385
we need a motion and a second to take action on the, uh,

1265
01:40:24,045 --> 01:40:27,965
approval of a cup motion to approve as represented.

1266
01:40:29,025 --> 01:40:32,905
second, I didn't see who said that. You. Okay. We

1267
01:40:33,125 --> 01:40:37,005
have a motion to, um, approve the cp from vice chair stegel and

1268
01:40:37,165 --> 01:40:41,085
a second from commissioner copeland. Is there any discussion on that? ?

1269
01:40:43,715 --> 01:40:47,645
okay. Um, I think this looks nice and it's

1270
01:40:47,885 --> 01:40:51,885
gonna be a welcome addition. I know that I, I know people who go to

1271
01:40:52,045 --> 01:40:55,825
the park and then they have to leave because they've got little ones and,

1272
01:40:56,625 --> 01:41:00,565
uh, bladders and things like that, . So hopefully this will encourage more people

1273
01:41:00,745 --> 01:41:04,735
to use our parks and stay there for a longer time. And well done to the parks

1274
01:41:05,275 --> 01:41:09,045
team on putting that together. It will take away my excuse to leave the park early with my 2-year-old.

1275
01:41:09,565 --> 01:41:13,485
so yes, , it does, it's still a good plan.

1276
01:41:14,395 --> 01:41:18,245
well, they'll just get tired and go to sleep. Maybe, probably not. They'll just get stronger.

1277
01:41:18,515 --> 01:41:22,285
good luck. That probably worse, right? Okay. All those

1278
01:41:22,705 --> 01:41:26,545
in favor of, uh, approving the motion, please say aye. Aye.

1279
01:41:26,865 --> 01:41:30,535
aye. All opposed, say nay. Okay. That one's

1280
01:41:31,045 --> 01:41:33,045
approved. Thank you, ms nine. Thank you.

1281
01:41:35,075 --> 01:41:38,865
okay. Next up we've got consider approval of a conditional use permit for

1282
01:41:39,325 --> 01:41:42,745
proposed revisions to the building materials for a building located at 2 3 1 5 0

1283
01:41:44,345 --> 01:41:47,885
ih 35 poco loco travel center, cup

1284
01:41:48,475 --> 01:41:52,435
dash 24 dash 0 1 1 3 ms. Sharp. Alright,

1285
01:41:52,925 --> 01:41:56,645
good evening. Kayla sharp, senior planner. Tonight we have a revision

1286
01:41:57,065 --> 01:42:00,925
to a conditional use permit for the poco loco that

1287
01:42:01,125 --> 01:42:04,645
is currently under construction on the southbound I 35 frontage road.

1288
01:42:05,345 --> 01:42:09,335
um, the applicant is seeking a revision to the previously approved plans.

1289
01:42:10,225 --> 01:42:14,225
uh, the approved plans consisted primarily of stone veneer and

1290
01:42:14,595 --> 01:42:18,565
gray brick. Uh, the proposed materials will remain the same, but they are

1291
01:42:18,725 --> 01:42:22,605
proposing a change in color, uh, to red brick on the sides and rear

1292
01:42:22,905 --> 01:42:26,865
of the building. Um, for some background, the original cup was

1293
01:42:27,245 --> 01:42:30,895
approved back in november of 2024, and construction began shortly after.

1294
01:42:31,745 --> 01:42:35,485
uh, we were recently informed that some of the building materials were changed during

1295
01:42:36,245 --> 01:42:39,765
construction and the materials and colors did not match what was previously

1296
01:42:40,285 --> 01:42:44,105
approved. Um, some of the materials are being corrected in the field, so

1297
01:42:44,325 --> 01:42:48,205
you'll see some images here in a minute. Um, that probably don't look

1298
01:42:48,365 --> 01:42:52,365
like what was approved. Some of that is being corrected as we speak. Um, but they are

1299
01:42:52,565 --> 01:42:55,045
proposing to make some changes to the, the brick color.

1300
01:42:57,345 --> 01:43:00,605
so the applicant's rationale for this is material availability

1301
01:43:01,585 --> 01:43:05,485
for the, um, gray brick and also some lead time constraints,

1302
01:43:06,225 --> 01:43:09,925
um, on, on ordering that material. So they're opting for a

1303
01:43:10,245 --> 01:43:13,005
material that they'll, they're able to get, uh, more quickly.

1304
01:43:16,385 --> 01:43:20,285
so they are also, um, clarifying that red brick will

1305
01:43:20,525 --> 01:43:24,425
be used on the fuel canopy. The previous elevation showed

1306
01:43:25,265 --> 01:43:29,125
red brick, but included a note stating that the color of the brick would match

1307
01:43:29,365 --> 01:43:33,285
the color of the building. Um, staff interpreted that to mean it would match the gray

1308
01:43:33,525 --> 01:43:37,365
brick that was proposed for the entire building. Um, they want to clarify that their intent is

1309
01:43:37,565 --> 01:43:41,325
to use red brick. So here are the

1310
01:43:41,805 --> 01:43:45,685
approved renderings. They have a white kind of limestone, um, on each

1311
01:43:46,035 --> 01:43:49,525
side of the building. They've got some gray brick on the front as well.

1312
01:43:50,265 --> 01:43:54,085
um, but then the, the sides in rear are primarily gray brick

1313
01:43:54,875 --> 01:43:56,085
with a little bit of stone.

1314
01:43:59,155 --> 01:44:03,085
here are the current conditions. Um, as you can see, they have a note on

1315
01:44:03,285 --> 01:44:06,695
here. They're removing some of this, um, wood look tiles

1316
01:44:07,745 --> 01:44:11,615
on the front that will be replaced with stone to match the approved, um, renderings

1317
01:44:12,285 --> 01:44:16,245
and elevations also better look at at what

1318
01:44:16,445 --> 01:44:20,375
the front is currently looking like. So they do have the, um, gray, brown,

1319
01:44:21,155 --> 01:44:24,745
whichever you wanna call it, brick on the front. Um,

1320
01:44:25,225 --> 01:44:29,125
and then on the sides they've started to put red brick and that's when

1321
01:44:29,245 --> 01:44:33,125
it was brought to our attention. Um, so now we are here and they're requesting

1322
01:44:33,605 --> 01:44:37,485
that change. So the back currently doesn't have

1323
01:44:37,645 --> 01:44:41,205
any brick on it, but their intent is to install red brick if approved tonight.

1324
01:44:43,065 --> 01:44:46,995
and here are the proposed elevations updated to show they

1325
01:44:47,285 --> 01:44:51,205
would be keeping the gray brick on the front. Um, it's just everywhere else that

1326
01:44:51,485 --> 01:44:53,925
they would be opting to switch to red brick

1327
01:44:55,665 --> 01:44:59,345
and the sides, the fuel canopy.

1328
01:45:01,785 --> 01:45:05,725
so your options here tonight are two approved as presented with

1329
01:45:05,925 --> 01:45:09,925
modifications or deny the request. Staff have found the

1330
01:45:10,325 --> 01:45:13,965
materials to be compliant with the I 35, however, um, I 35

1331
01:45:14,395 --> 01:45:18,385
overlay. However, since the changes were made in the field rather than through the

1332
01:45:18,605 --> 01:45:22,565
established cop process, um, staff is bringing this

1333
01:45:22,845 --> 01:45:26,445
request forward and asking the commission to consider and make a final

1334
01:45:26,885 --> 01:45:30,465
determination. Any

1335
01:45:30,925 --> 01:45:34,505
questions? Thank you. Uh, any questions from up here? Yes, mr. Copeland,

1336
01:45:35,785 --> 01:45:39,515
ms. Sharp. So a few months ago we had a similar situation with

1337
01:45:39,805 --> 01:45:43,605
the developer where it was discovered at the time of issuing a co that they had

1338
01:45:43,825 --> 01:45:47,645
not adhered to the cep plans on that had been approved at the time mm-hmm .

1339
01:45:48,145 --> 01:45:51,965
in that case, that was found after the fact. And in this

1340
01:45:52,525 --> 01:45:55,945
instance, the applicant is proactively working with the city to

1341
01:45:56,685 --> 01:45:59,885
identify and, and work through the differences. Is that correct?

1342
01:46:01,115 --> 01:46:05,085
correct. Yes. Okay. And if this applicant had brought

1343
01:46:05,745 --> 01:46:09,705
to the commission at the beginning of the process, the current design

1344
01:46:10,125 --> 01:46:14,045
and where it's at today, it still could have been approved because it otherwise

1345
01:46:14,435 --> 01:46:17,805
adhered to the I 35 overlay. And the only difference tonight is because

1346
01:46:18,835 --> 01:46:22,575
it's not that plan that was approved, but both are equally approvable

1347
01:46:23,345 --> 01:46:27,265
in theory. Is that fair? Primarily, um, if

1348
01:46:27,485 --> 01:46:31,465
they were asking to keep the tiles on the front, we don't know what that material is. Um,

1349
01:46:31,785 --> 01:46:35,645
so that could have potentially been an issue upfront if it didn't meet the

1350
01:46:35,835 --> 01:46:39,805
masonry requirements. But as far as the rest of it goes, if that's what

1351
01:46:39,925 --> 01:46:43,765
they had presented to the commission from the beginning, um, it could have in theory

1352
01:46:44,115 --> 01:46:48,005
been approved. If, if that was the commission's decision at that time in the items

1353
01:46:48,165 --> 01:46:52,105
mentioned that are unknown, are still unknown as of tonight. The,

1354
01:46:52,515 --> 01:46:56,275
it's just the, the wood look, um, tiles on the front here,

1355
01:46:56,985 --> 01:47:00,185
um, that are being removed. We don't know what that material is

1356
01:47:01,125 --> 01:47:05,085
specifically. Um, so I couldn't say if they were to propose this, that it

1357
01:47:05,205 --> 01:47:08,965
would be approved. Um, but as far as the, the red brick that we're

1358
01:47:09,405 --> 01:47:13,285
considering here tonight, if they were to have proposed that from the beginning, that's something

1359
01:47:13,485 --> 01:47:17,335
that the commission could have approved and the applicant is proactively working with city staff

1360
01:47:17,745 --> 01:47:20,915
to come into alignment in some regard. Is that fair?

1361
01:47:22,105 --> 01:47:25,965
um, they, they did start installing the red brick without any approvals.

1362
01:47:26,385 --> 01:47:30,245
so they were kind of, you know, made aware of, hey, those changes need to be

1363
01:47:30,485 --> 01:47:34,345
approved by the planning and zoning commission. They haven't been issued a stop work order or

1364
01:47:34,685 --> 01:47:38,685
anything like that. We're trying to work with them. Um, so it's, it's a little bit of

1365
01:47:38,805 --> 01:47:42,325
both. Um, we are, you know, trying to work with them, as I said, but they did technically,

1366
01:47:42,865 --> 01:47:46,545
um, move forward with this without approvals. But at least they're responsive to

1367
01:47:47,025 --> 01:47:50,605
the discussion, correct? Yes. Thank you. And was this a

1368
01:47:51,615 --> 01:47:54,345
contractor substitution where yes.

1369
01:48:01,215 --> 01:48:05,125
other questions for staff? It looks like commissioner hilde is trying to talk to us,

1370
01:48:05,425 --> 01:48:09,385
but I can't hear him. Is, lemme try

1371
01:48:09,605 --> 01:48:13,445
this again. There you go. Can you hear me now? Yes, sir. Yes. Okay. I, and this

1372
01:48:13,725 --> 01:48:17,465
is, this is also based on availability of the material, the, or it, was it

1373
01:48:17,865 --> 01:48:21,845
the original material's not available, is that correct? I don't believe

1374
01:48:22,165 --> 01:48:26,165
that it's not available. I believe it was a timing issue for, for when it

1375
01:48:26,365 --> 01:48:30,365
was going to be available and I don't know exactly what the lead time was, but I know it

1376
01:48:30,445 --> 01:48:34,365
was okay. So not re not reasonably available anyway. Yeah, it was gonna slow

1377
01:48:34,645 --> 01:48:38,465
down the, the, the developer's timeline. I'm not sure how

1378
01:48:38,785 --> 01:48:42,455
by how much though. Madam

1379
01:48:42,805 --> 01:48:45,205
chair. I'd like to make the motion that we approve as presented.

1380
01:48:47,395 --> 01:48:51,205
I've got one last question for staff and then, uh, we will move

1381
01:48:51,445 --> 01:48:55,385
forward with your motion. Um mm-hmm . I I see

1382
01:48:55,625 --> 01:48:58,055
on the proposed elevations,

1383
01:48:59,965 --> 01:49:03,745
I just have a question about the material. 'cause I'm not a builder, I'm

1384
01:49:04,025 --> 01:49:07,845
not familiar with these things. So the part of the building that's already

1385
01:49:08,155 --> 01:49:11,635
been constructed with the, um, stone veneer limestone,

1386
01:49:12,825 --> 01:49:16,725
uh, there's going to be something called adhered stone veneer

1387
01:49:17,185 --> 01:49:21,085
on the area where those wood look tiles were, were taken

1388
01:49:21,435 --> 01:49:25,125
down. Do we know if the adhered stone veneer

1389
01:49:25,585 --> 01:49:29,405
is going to age differently than the

1390
01:49:29,605 --> 01:49:33,485
regular stone veneer? Will it be as durable? Will it have any issues that might

1391
01:49:33,645 --> 01:49:37,565
down the road? Cause some, you know, unsightliness or will

1392
01:49:37,805 --> 01:49:41,145
they be expected to look and age in a consistent way?

1393
01:49:42,265 --> 01:49:46,225
um, to our knowledge it should be essentially the same product. Um,

1394
01:49:48,205 --> 01:49:52,125
I, there shouldn't be any difference between what's already been installed and what's now being replaced.

1395
01:49:52,545 --> 01:49:55,925
um, it could just be that one of them's more of like a thin set veneer versus,

1396
01:49:57,025 --> 01:50:00,765
um, I believe the original was also veneer. So it's not like it was a full stone

1397
01:50:01,045 --> 01:50:05,025
versus veneer. Now, um, they should be relatively the

1398
01:50:05,325 --> 01:50:09,145
same. Okay, so it's got good, good stickum on the, on

1399
01:50:09,365 --> 01:50:13,225
the back for the adhered stone veneer? Should be, yes. Okay. Um,

1400
01:50:14,365 --> 01:50:18,005
I don't have any other questions for staff on this one, so does anyone else have

1401
01:50:18,525 --> 01:50:22,405
a question? Alright, we have a motion that got thrown out from commissioner hildreth to

1402
01:50:22,765 --> 01:50:26,525
recommend approval of this. Is there a second on that? Second? Okay. Second. From

1403
01:50:26,805 --> 01:50:28,765
vice chair stegel. Any discussion?

1404
01:50:32,475 --> 01:50:36,345
okay, all those in favor of approving this up, please say aye. Aye.

1405
01:50:36,825 --> 01:50:40,565
aye. All opposed? Nay. Okay. That one's

1406
01:50:40,845 --> 01:50:44,435
taken care of. Thank you. Okay,

1407
01:50:45,155 --> 01:50:48,665
next. We have a very exciting honor of recognizing daniel

1408
01:50:49,485 --> 01:50:53,325
serato for his dedicated years of service on the planning and zoning

1409
01:50:53,565 --> 01:50:55,945
commission, mr. Lutens.

1410
01:51:01,195 --> 01:51:05,175
okay, so, uh, I'm gonna recognize, uh, daniel today,

1411
01:51:05,585 --> 01:51:09,445
so the stranger you see in the back of the room, mr. Serrano, I know it's been a while since y'all seen him.

1412
01:51:10,105 --> 01:51:14,005
um, we want to thank him for, for the time he served, um, even though it

1413
01:51:14,205 --> 01:51:17,645
was a short, uh, timeframe, september 23 through december, 2025.

1414
01:51:19,105 --> 01:51:23,065
um, he was very committed to this board, asked a lot of questions, uh,

1415
01:51:23,845 --> 01:51:27,765
actively engaged in training, um, uh, was part of

1416
01:51:27,885 --> 01:51:31,685
our impact advisory fee. You know, a lot of conversations on our projects,

1417
01:51:32,585 --> 01:51:36,445
uh, and a lot of good comments, uh, during our, our reviews of, of cup.

1418
01:51:36,865 --> 01:51:40,665
so again, thank daniel, we appreciate it and thank you very much, um, and

1419
01:51:40,885 --> 01:51:44,565
look forward to hopefully having you back one day. Thank y'all

1420
01:51:47,475 --> 01:51:51,245
picture, no, no picture suitable for framing with our,

1421
01:51:52,765 --> 01:51:56,205
I was gonna say, let's do a picture. Appreciate it. Mark the moment.

1422
01:51:59,425 --> 01:52:00,485
put the computer in there for me.

1423
01:52:16,085 --> 01:52:16,085
.

1424
01:52:27,835 --> 01:52:27,835
alright,

1425
01:52:31,945 --> 01:52:33,315
cheers. All right, thanks guys.

1426
01:52:47,125 --> 01:52:49,605
I thought about it. We've been here long enough.

1427
01:52:56,275 --> 01:53:00,165
well, thank you, daniel. It's been, it's been fun to serve with you and I wish you all the

1428
01:53:00,285 --> 01:53:04,235
best in your, in your new spot. Okay,

1429
01:53:04,995 --> 01:53:08,745
next up, we have hold a public hearing to receive comments on the

1430
01:53:09,165 --> 01:53:12,905
proposed amendment to the program year 2025 annual action

1431
01:53:13,325 --> 01:53:16,805
plan for the us department of housing and urban development hood

1432
01:53:17,395 --> 01:53:21,235
community development block grant, cdbg program.

1433
01:53:22,705 --> 01:53:26,125
so there is a public hearing for this item. I'm gonna go ahead and open that now at 8 29.

1434
01:53:30,825 --> 01:53:32,925
seeing none, I'm going to close it at 8 29.

1435
01:53:34,835 --> 01:53:38,725
alright, ms. Sharp, good evening. Kayla sharp, senior planner.

1436
01:53:39,425 --> 01:53:42,445
um, so this is really intended to fill one of our requirements,

1437
01:53:43,465 --> 01:53:47,465
um, for hud. There's gonna be lots of acronyms throughout this, so my

1438
01:53:47,685 --> 01:53:51,485
apologies. Um, but, um, as part of our creating our annual

1439
01:53:51,745 --> 01:53:55,445
action plan, we're required to consult the public stakeholders, things like that, to,

1440
01:53:55,825 --> 01:53:59,765
um, gain feedback on our proposed plan. So this is,

1441
01:54:00,255 --> 01:54:03,485
we're kind of using y'all to, to fulfill that public meeting requirement.

1442
01:54:04,585 --> 01:54:08,495
um, so just to kind of give y'all an overview, we're entitled or we're

1443
01:54:09,245 --> 01:54:12,765
identified as an entitlement city, um, with hud and receive

1444
01:54:13,455 --> 01:54:17,205
block grant funding annually. Um, the amount is determined

1445
01:54:17,525 --> 01:54:21,505
by a statutory formula, so we receive a different amount each year. We just got our

1446
01:54:22,165 --> 01:54:24,925
allocation for next year, and it is more than we thought, so that's awesome.

1447
01:54:26,205 --> 01:54:29,945
. Um, for the current year that we're in, we

1448
01:54:30,225 --> 01:54:34,205
are, I kind of already went through that. Um, we are proposing some

1449
01:54:34,445 --> 01:54:38,445
changes to our plans. Um, and so that's why we're here

1450
01:54:38,525 --> 01:54:41,655
tonight. We have to basically resubmit everything to hud all over again.

1451
01:54:42,545 --> 01:54:46,445
um, so that is what we're here for tonight. We are proposing

1452
01:54:46,965 --> 01:54:50,565
to reallocate funding from a wastewater improvement project

1453
01:54:51,385 --> 01:54:55,385
to a sidewalk project that will benefit low to moderate income areas in

1454
01:54:55,605 --> 01:54:59,565
the city. So the original project was the quail ridge

1455
01:54:59,645 --> 01:55:03,365
wastewater improvements. Um, it was for installation of first time wastewater

1456
01:55:03,885 --> 01:55:07,505
service in the quail ridge subdivision, and we had, um, a little over $277,000

1457
01:55:09,515 --> 01:55:11,845
allocated in cdbg funding for that.

1458
01:55:14,105 --> 01:55:17,245
our proposed project will be, um, brent boulevard sidewalk improvements.

1459
01:55:18,145 --> 01:55:22,095
so this would be construction and replacement of sidewalks, a da compliant curb, ramps

1460
01:55:22,445 --> 01:55:26,345
and related pedestrian safety improvements along brent boulevard. And

1461
01:55:26,565 --> 01:55:30,245
in the park steeplechase subdivision. The allocation amount is not

1462
01:55:30,725 --> 01:55:34,615
changing. So this is truly just moving those

1463
01:55:34,975 --> 01:55:38,845
funds from a wastewater infrastructure project to the sidewalk infrastructure project.

1464
01:55:39,905 --> 01:55:43,885
um, as I said, the allocation is not changing. Um, and this

1465
01:55:44,225 --> 01:55:47,325
is compliant with the national objective compliance requirements

1466
01:55:48,425 --> 01:55:52,325
for hud. As you can see, everything in the green here on this map is a

1467
01:55:52,465 --> 01:55:56,045
low to moderate income area. Um, and so this kind of outlines

1468
01:55:56,705 --> 01:56:00,575
the, the service area for this project. Again,

1469
01:56:01,045 --> 01:56:04,525
community benefits improved pedestrian safety, a da accessibility,

1470
01:56:05,555 --> 01:56:09,045
increased walkability, um, benefit to lmi areas

1471
01:56:09,985 --> 01:56:13,885
and also supports the goals of our five year consolidated plan that is already

1472
01:56:14,405 --> 01:56:18,205
approved by hud. So the public notice

1473
01:56:18,625 --> 01:56:22,545
has been provided, provided in accordance with hud guidelines, and we

1474
01:56:22,765 --> 01:56:26,445
just had the opportunity for public comment. We've also had a public comment period

1475
01:56:26,835 --> 01:56:30,745
open for the last 30 days. So next steps. We

1476
01:56:30,965 --> 01:56:34,885
just held that public hearing. Um, any comments received either tonight or in

1477
01:56:35,045 --> 01:56:38,625
that 30 day public comment period will be incorporated into the pro pro

1478
01:56:40,215 --> 01:56:44,135
words are not coming out tonight, sorry, um, into the proposed amendments.

1479
01:56:44,825 --> 01:56:48,505
and then city council will consider, consider the amendment at the may 5th

1480
01:56:48,925 --> 01:56:52,405
council meeting, and then we will submit everything to hud for their approval.

1481
01:56:54,345 --> 01:56:57,425
any questions? Yes. Um,

1482
01:56:58,745 --> 01:57:02,425
it had been discussed for some time, had it not, that this grant would probably be applied to

1483
01:57:02,885 --> 01:57:06,685
sidewalks. Yes. So that was one of our, our top priority,

1484
01:57:07,345 --> 01:57:10,795
um, needs as identified in our five year consolidated plan.

1485
01:57:11,665 --> 01:57:15,325
um, so at least for this year and, and likely the next fiscal

1486
01:57:15,715 --> 01:57:19,545
year, um, we'll probably be looking at, so nothing was prompted by council or

1487
01:57:19,765 --> 01:57:23,465
other changes? It's been pretty much, yes. We,

1488
01:57:23,835 --> 01:57:27,425
when looking the, the quail ridge project was another kind of top

1489
01:57:28,005 --> 01:57:31,885
priority. Um, but when analyzing the, the feasibility of

1490
01:57:32,085 --> 01:57:35,985
that project, the timing just wasn't there. Um, we

1491
01:57:36,205 --> 01:57:40,045
have some compliance, uh, requirements that we have to meet in terms of

1492
01:57:40,315 --> 01:57:44,085
when we spend the money, um, and we just weren't gonna be able to meet that.

1493
01:57:44,665 --> 01:57:48,645
the project just wasn't there yet. So it doesn't leave them up the creek? No. It's, it's

1494
01:57:48,925 --> 01:57:52,845
still, um, a project for the city to work on. It just probably won't

1495
01:57:53,165 --> 01:57:54,085
use cdbg funds.

1496
01:57:59,785 --> 01:58:03,725
how wide are the sidewalks? , they will meet minimum code requirements.

1497
01:58:04,565 --> 01:58:08,545
, . Yeah, this project was

1498
01:58:08,765 --> 01:58:12,765
really kind of working off. I don't know that this year was the first year that we were

1499
01:58:13,085 --> 01:58:16,805
entitlement city and we used, um, amberwood, um, ramps and some sidewalk improvements

1500
01:58:17,545 --> 01:58:21,445
in that, um, in that existing subdivision and replaced 'em there. And it was a really successful

1501
01:58:22,085 --> 01:58:25,765
project. So we appreciated kind of holistically how it helped,

1502
01:58:26,265 --> 01:58:29,845
uh, that neighborhood and we're hoping to duplicate it here in this, this brentwood neighborhood.

1503
01:58:30,635 --> 01:58:34,525
yeah, we got lots of positive feedback on that project in that particular neighborhood. Is it gonna be

1504
01:58:34,645 --> 01:58:38,645
physically hard to actually get five foot sidewalks in on that right

1505
01:58:38,885 --> 01:58:42,365
away? Um, I know there are already existing sidewalks.

1506
01:58:43,225 --> 01:58:47,205
um, so if there's already an existing four foot sidewalk because this neighborhood

1507
01:58:47,665 --> 01:58:51,225
has been around, it's possible that they continue with that. Um, but any

1508
01:58:51,825 --> 01:58:55,385
new sidewalks would be compliant with, with current standards. Um,

1509
01:58:56,145 --> 01:58:59,915
and where they're able to, to widen them to five feet, I believe they will. But that

1510
01:59:00,215 --> 01:59:03,225
level of detail hasn't necessarily been evaluated just yet.

1511
01:59:07,785 --> 01:59:11,645
and the primary driver for that change is that the quail ridge project

1512
01:59:12,435 --> 01:59:16,365
just would not likely meet the timelines for the expenditure of the funding,

1513
01:59:17,025 --> 01:59:20,865
but that there's still, uh, objectives and goals to complete that project at

1514
01:59:21,085 --> 01:59:24,975
some point in the future. Yes, so the, that project, again,

1515
01:59:25,345 --> 01:59:29,245
it, the timing, we pretty much have one year to, to complete this

1516
01:59:29,505 --> 01:59:33,085
and spend all of the money. Um, and from the time we

1517
01:59:33,525 --> 01:59:37,465
actually get approvals on that annual action plan, um, which we submit

1518
01:59:38,065 --> 01:59:41,725
in august, sometimes it's not approved until december or january

1519
01:59:42,145 --> 01:59:45,725
and you've, you're already a couple months into the fiscal year, you've got engineering and all of that.

1520
01:59:46,465 --> 01:59:50,245
um, it just turned into a much more complex project than we initially thought.

1521
01:59:54,505 --> 01:59:57,925
no action required. No thank you. All right. Thank you.

1522
02:00:01,315 --> 02:00:05,285
okay, next up we have receive a report, hold a discussion, and provide staff

1523
02:00:05,925 --> 02:00:09,235
feedback regarding a proposed mixed use development project. Filo,

1524
02:00:10,225 --> 02:00:10,875
uh, mr. Lutz.

1525
02:00:24,725 --> 02:00:28,655
thank you. Uh, everybody can hear me now. So, uh, tonight, uh, staff

1526
02:00:29,005 --> 02:00:32,895
report regarding your philomena pro, uh, pud, um, this is project philo

1527
02:00:33,245 --> 02:00:37,085
has been noticed on other agendas. Uh, the applicants will be introducing

1528
02:00:37,325 --> 02:00:41,205
this. They're referring to this as a crossroads development. Um, so a little back

1529
02:00:41,415 --> 02:00:45,165
background on this property. Um, this property was annexed and zoned

1530
02:00:45,485 --> 02:00:49,085
agricultural in oh two. Um, initial discussions regarding

1531
02:00:49,925 --> 02:00:53,645
possible mixed use zoning. District mxd started with staff in january

1532
02:00:54,145 --> 02:00:57,705
of 2023. Uh, mxd zoning is a fairly unique,

1533
02:00:58,225 --> 02:01:02,045
uh, zoning, or not unique, but new zoning district that hasn't been utilized,

1534
02:01:02,425 --> 02:01:06,365
uh, uh, much in the city. And so it presented some challenges, uh, which

1535
02:01:06,565 --> 02:01:10,485
is why the developer looked at going the pud route. Um, their

1536
02:01:11,025 --> 02:01:15,005
pud was submitted in august of that 23, and then they submitted a

1537
02:01:15,225 --> 02:01:17,875
da to accompany the pud, uh, the following year.

1538
02:01:19,545 --> 02:01:23,395
um, this pud and development agreement is pretty basic when it comes to kind

1539
02:01:23,685 --> 02:01:27,285
of level of detail that maybe some of the things that you've seen in the past. Um, they're

1540
02:01:27,805 --> 02:01:31,575
looking for, uh, base zoning land uses of retail services, about

1541
02:01:31,925 --> 02:01:35,045
177,000 square feet of commercial, and then about 535

1542
02:01:36,035 --> 02:01:39,885
feet, uh, 535 units of, uh, multifamily. Uh, the comprehensive

1543
02:01:40,395 --> 02:01:44,225
plan does, uh, identify this area as urban mixed use. Um,

1544
02:01:44,465 --> 02:01:48,325
so the proposed pud would meet the, the future land use plan. They're also

1545
02:01:48,525 --> 02:01:52,385
donating, uh, land for a right of way, uh, for a roundabout. Um,

1546
02:01:52,665 --> 02:01:55,605
and that is a 0.2, two acres is roughly, has a $150,000

1547
02:01:57,015 --> 02:02:00,925
value. Um, staff is requesting feedback regarding this proposed development.

1548
02:02:01,575 --> 02:02:05,485
again, feedback may include overall design, land uses, density, landscaping,

1549
02:02:06,065 --> 02:02:09,855
um, kind of any other, your other concerns or issues. Um, we're

1550
02:02:10,205 --> 02:02:14,045
just asking that you provide direction regarding items you would like to see specifically addressed,

1551
02:02:14,705 --> 02:02:18,665
uh, during the pud review process. Um, so staff, uh, uh,

1552
02:02:19,025 --> 02:02:22,885
has been working with the applicant. We've gone through several rounds, kind of fine tuned some

1553
02:02:23,125 --> 02:02:27,025
negotiating points. Um, they will be looking at making some modifications and

1554
02:02:27,245 --> 02:02:31,145
then resubmitting that to staff for kind of the, the, the final phase of, of

1555
02:02:31,365 --> 02:02:35,185
review, uh, to get that back to y'all. So now's the time to, to speak if

1556
02:02:35,405 --> 02:02:39,325
you want anything to include in that. Um, I will be introducing the

1557
02:02:39,485 --> 02:02:43,385
developer and then I will turn it over to them, uh, to handle your questions. Um,

1558
02:02:43,635 --> 02:02:47,055
this is kaplan development. They got 40 plus years of residential and commercial experience,

1559
02:02:48,105 --> 02:02:52,065
um, backgrounds in commercial civil engineering, lending, construction, uh,

1560
02:02:52,355 --> 02:02:56,125
financial analysis. Uh, and they have one local project, uh, they worked on parked

1561
02:02:56,425 --> 02:03:00,085
in square slash greg gardens. Um, and having said that,

1562
02:03:00,565 --> 02:03:04,315
I will go ahead and turn that over to someone

1563
02:03:05,035 --> 02:03:06,685
from the team. Thank you guys.

1564
02:03:09,245 --> 02:03:12,605
ip I'm, uh, michael linehan with lsi representing kaplan development.

1565
02:03:13,505 --> 02:03:17,365
um, and this is our presentation for the crossroads district as we have been calling

1566
02:03:17,545 --> 02:03:21,525
it. Um, so just so we're, uh, all on the same page of where the site

1567
02:03:21,765 --> 02:03:25,725
is located is just south of the hospital on, uh, uh, with

1568
02:03:26,195 --> 02:03:30,145
fina drive going right through the middle of it. Um, uh,

1569
02:03:30,585 --> 02:03:34,485
so this shows our conceptual, uh, land use plan and

1570
02:03:34,645 --> 02:03:38,365
site plan. Um, we do have, uh, multifamily development where

1571
02:03:38,695 --> 02:03:42,505
we've pushed the, um, the buildings out towards, uh,

1572
02:03:42,725 --> 02:03:46,645
the right of way, as is called for an mxd zoning, uh, which screens a lot of the surface parking

1573
02:03:47,155 --> 02:03:50,965
away from the kind of walkable streets. Um, we've also incorporated

1574
02:03:52,085 --> 02:03:55,725
a, uh, a pedestrian greenway that goes through

1575
02:03:56,195 --> 02:04:00,085
both the multi-family sites so that we can connect, uh, the residents to

1576
02:04:00,255 --> 02:04:04,205
green space as well as the, uh, commercial space, um, that abuts that on the

1577
02:04:04,325 --> 02:04:08,225
north side. Um, further to the west, uh, is

1578
02:04:08,445 --> 02:04:12,335
still rs donating, but we have con uh, conceptualized, uh, hotel

1579
02:04:12,685 --> 02:04:16,565
sites in that location. Um, and there's been a good amount of demand, uh, based off

1580
02:04:16,725 --> 02:04:19,405
market feedback for, uh, hotel sites in this location.

1581
02:04:21,505 --> 02:04:24,595
uh, so going to the mxd zone that shows in, uh, yellow here.

1582
02:04:25,625 --> 02:04:29,545
um, so just a few inspiration images of the type of, um, uh,

1583
02:04:29,995 --> 02:04:33,125
multifamily development that that would accommodate, uh, giving that more,

1584
02:04:34,265 --> 02:04:38,165
uh, urban mixed use development aesthetic, uh, while still allowing surface parking,

1585
02:04:38,905 --> 02:04:42,765
um, which is supported by the market. Uh, then going into the

1586
02:04:43,325 --> 02:04:47,185
rs zoned areas, uh, shown in red in the map here, uh,

1587
02:04:47,475 --> 02:04:50,885
with some, um, retail services, restaurants, uh, office

1588
02:04:51,585 --> 02:04:55,265
and the, uh, affirmation hotels, uh, to support, um,

1589
02:04:56,185 --> 02:05:00,045
uh, different commercial uses, uh, especially adjacent to the hospital. There.

1590
02:05:02,705 --> 02:05:06,685
uh, this just shows, uh, more of the green space, uh, that has been incorporated into this

1591
02:05:06,845 --> 02:05:10,245
design. Uh, so that we have commercial and residential

1592
02:05:10,885 --> 02:05:14,845
connecting to open spaces that allows for production connectivity throughout the

1593
02:05:15,005 --> 02:05:18,925
site. Uh, and this, this shows

1594
02:05:19,125 --> 02:05:23,065
everything put together with our, uh, mxd base zoning and our

1595
02:05:24,085 --> 02:05:27,925
rs zoning, uh, and highlighting the, uh, the green space through the center spine

1596
02:05:28,205 --> 02:05:28,445
of this development.

1597
02:05:32,945 --> 02:05:36,905
so, um, the zoning is consistent with the future land use map. Um,

1598
02:05:37,705 --> 02:05:41,365
and, um, wanted to also highlight

1599
02:05:41,725 --> 02:05:45,665
that there's no real incentive being requested by kaplan development. So no pit

1600
02:05:46,195 --> 02:05:49,725
orts or anything of that nature or, uh, significant variances

1601
02:05:50,285 --> 02:05:53,485
to code. There's a couple of challenges with the mxd based zoning,

1602
02:05:54,345 --> 02:05:58,155
uh, that just make it challenging to develop, um, with the, the current

1603
02:05:58,645 --> 02:06:02,475
market state of, um, of the area. Uh, so there's

1604
02:06:02,965 --> 02:06:06,405
just minor, um, variances that we we'd be looking for there in terms of,

1605
02:06:06,985 --> 02:06:10,965
um, parking and, um, vertical mixed use percentages and things

1606
02:06:11,125 --> 02:06:14,805
of that nature. Um, and what the city receives out of this is the urban walkable

1607
02:06:15,325 --> 02:06:19,045
mixed use development consistent with the, uh, future land use map. Um, donation

1608
02:06:19,605 --> 02:06:22,885
of the right of way, uh, as jason mentioned, is, uh, roughly $150,000

1609
02:06:23,645 --> 02:06:27,125
value that the, uh, landowner is, um, donating

1610
02:06:27,685 --> 02:06:31,325
to the city for that roundabout. And then, uh, enhanced

1611
02:06:31,765 --> 02:06:35,765
cohesive design standards. Uh, there's a portion of the site that's in

1612
02:06:35,845 --> 02:06:39,445
the I 35 overlay, but we've taken information from that I 35 overlay

1613
02:06:40,265 --> 02:06:44,085
and baked it into the overall, uh, pod and development agreement. Things such as, uh, consistent

1614
02:06:44,715 --> 02:06:48,115
signage standards, uh, 60% masonry facades,

1615
02:06:49,025 --> 02:06:52,705
uh, street trees and things of that nature to make it a more comprehensive, um,

1616
02:06:53,235 --> 02:06:57,165
plan for the area. And then, uh, we, we'll be doing a traffic

1617
02:06:57,345 --> 02:07:01,185
impact analysis, um, as part of the, the p and

1618
02:07:01,405 --> 02:07:05,385
then, uh, the city also benefits from the full property taxes and

1619
02:07:05,605 --> 02:07:09,525
hotel occupancy tax and sales tax. So thank you for

1620
02:07:09,685 --> 02:07:13,525
your time and, uh, we appreciate your feedback, uh, to help us make revisions into our next presentation.

1621
02:07:16,775 --> 02:07:20,345
thank you for being here. Presentation. I'm one, one question or comment I'd like to add in.

1622
02:07:20,905 --> 02:07:24,625
yes, sir. Go ahead. Um, are you familiar with, are you familiar with the third way,

1623
02:07:25,145 --> 02:07:29,085
uh, type type projects in the incorporating those into this? I love the

1624
02:07:29,245 --> 02:07:32,925
green, the green space and stuff, but you know, we have a, we have our work

1625
02:07:33,405 --> 02:07:37,345
location, we have our home location, a a third way location's, a a a spot where people

1626
02:07:37,765 --> 02:07:41,585
might gather, um, around in shopping malls, they'll often use like a fire pit

1627
02:07:41,805 --> 02:07:45,805
or something like that. Have you looked at any consideration of something like that to incorporate

1628
02:07:46,205 --> 02:07:50,185
that into the green space that you have? Uh, not currently. That's something we was certainly, uh,

1629
02:07:50,475 --> 02:07:54,285
looking into the next one. And you, you said third way location is the term.

1630
02:07:54,725 --> 02:07:58,715
I, I, that that's what I've heard it called. I, I'm trying to remember the exact term. It's

1631
02:07:59,005 --> 02:08:02,425
been a few years since I've worked with mixed use development, but it, it's actually something that, um,

1632
02:08:03,425 --> 02:08:07,365
uh, is a standardized concept with third way. Uh, as an example, you have mixed

1633
02:08:07,525 --> 02:08:11,325
use development. You might have, uh, in, in some cases in c city of seattle's example,

1634
02:08:12,035 --> 02:08:15,725
they have, um, some green space up on a roof of an apartment building

1635
02:08:16,545 --> 02:08:20,325
and they have, uh, you know, benches and areas for people to gather the community

1636
02:08:20,705 --> 02:08:24,495
to gather. Yeah. It's like the, the third place. Yeah. For that third

1637
02:08:24,845 --> 02:08:28,545
place. That's what I'm, that's, that's, I'm thinking of not third way, third place. Yep. In,

1638
02:08:28,865 --> 02:08:32,645
in regards to kind of looking at the live, work, play kind of, um, component

1639
02:08:33,265 --> 02:08:37,205
of it. Mm-hmm . And certainly, and, and I would say a lot g and lot

1640
02:08:37,605 --> 02:08:41,605
h uh, where those two come together, we have the green space between that and the intent there was that we would have

1641
02:08:41,995 --> 02:08:45,785
kind of back patio space for the commercial, uh, as well as the

1642
02:08:46,395 --> 02:08:50,245
amenity space for the multifamily space. So you kind of have that

1643
02:08:50,435 --> 02:08:53,325
intermingling third place in that location.

1644
02:08:55,905 --> 02:08:59,645
are you willing to yeah, I'll say right in front, I'm a strong believer in, in mixed use development.

1645
02:09:00,305 --> 02:09:04,285
so are you

1646
02:09:04,445 --> 02:09:07,065
willing to, uh, as part of the pud uh,

1647
02:09:09,175 --> 02:09:13,045
agree to some, uh, performance metrics regarding phasing of the project

1648
02:09:13,505 --> 02:09:17,445
and completion thereof? Uh, I'd have to discuss that with the development

1649
02:09:18,125 --> 02:09:22,125
team, but something we can take into consideration as we go into the next stages. I think that's something we'd be

1650
02:09:22,205 --> 02:09:23,355
interested in. Okay.

1651
02:09:27,225 --> 02:09:27,225
um,

1652
02:09:32,155 --> 02:09:36,045
also, uh, how much is there in the market? You meant

1653
02:09:36,305 --> 02:09:40,245
to mentioned the market a couple of times, I believe. How much interest in the market

1654
02:09:40,385 --> 02:09:44,225
is there out there throwing money into mixed use where you've got retail on

1655
02:09:44,605 --> 02:09:48,165
the first floor, or is that still a difficult thing to find financing

1656
02:09:48,785 --> 02:09:52,115
for? It's still challenging this, uh, this

1657
02:09:53,225 --> 02:09:56,845
pod does, uh, accommodate first floor retail in the mxd

1658
02:09:57,375 --> 02:10:01,365
zoned areas. Um, it, it is, I I will say just an experience in

1659
02:10:01,485 --> 02:10:05,285
multi-family development that getting the financing for retail and that their level

1660
02:10:05,545 --> 02:10:08,865
is, it can be challenging. Um, and

1661
02:10:09,645 --> 02:10:13,325
comments towards the market is just the, uh, mxd calls for

1662
02:10:13,765 --> 02:10:17,485
structured parking and just the cost of that and the current rental rates in the area are just really

1663
02:10:17,845 --> 02:10:21,565
challenging. And so that's why this proposes some of the intent of mxd while still

1664
02:10:21,965 --> 02:10:25,685
allowing the surface parking. Yeah, because I, I, I like intent,

1665
02:10:26,185 --> 02:10:30,125
but I also like fulfillment. So, uh, I know the financing for

1666
02:10:30,325 --> 02:10:34,325
the retails is hard, but I'd like to see it. You're saying you want

1667
02:10:34,565 --> 02:10:38,525
it. I'm interested in hearing what the development team has in response to

1668
02:10:38,725 --> 02:10:42,685
the idea of doing this in phases with com. You know, very concrete,

1669
02:10:42,845 --> 02:10:46,645
understandable, uh, performance standards. Uh, just so that we are

1670
02:10:47,115 --> 02:10:50,955
very clear about what we're getting, this is a very important parcel of land. I've

1671
02:10:51,245 --> 02:10:55,245
driven through here on philomena many times, and I think anybody knows this

1672
02:10:55,405 --> 02:10:59,205
part of town knows that it is really quite important to the development there.

1673
02:11:00,025 --> 02:11:03,765
if you, if you think about it, the roundabouts on the east side of it

1674
02:11:04,185 --> 02:11:07,845
are there for a reason because daisy lane in that entire area is so busy with traffic

1675
02:11:08,205 --> 02:11:12,085
mm-hmm . And you've got major commercial and retail up behind you

1676
02:11:12,285 --> 02:11:16,085
there. So I would like to see something special built there that provides

1677
02:11:16,485 --> 02:11:20,345
good residences, good, uh, walkable space with good retail.

1678
02:11:21,385 --> 02:11:25,325
and so if you can bring that to this plan, I'm more than

1679
02:11:25,445 --> 02:11:28,885
willing to hear more. Thank you.

1680
02:11:32,225 --> 02:11:36,195
um, I have a question more, more to educate

1681
02:11:36,745 --> 02:11:40,605
myself than I, I, I like what you've presented. When we talk about live workplace,

1682
02:11:41,125 --> 02:11:43,345
somehow work always equals retail. Um,

1683
02:11:45,955 --> 02:11:49,685
clearly you've made some demand driven decisions as you've put this together.

1684
02:11:50,835 --> 02:11:54,635
what, is there a demand? What is the demand for like

1685
02:11:54,925 --> 02:11:58,795
commercial office space, anything like that? Or is the demand for work

1686
02:11:59,185 --> 02:12:02,105
in kyle just retail stores? Uh,

1687
02:12:03,225 --> 02:12:07,165
so I, I can't answer that very specifically. Just not having

1688
02:12:07,675 --> 02:12:11,525
full market data to throw numbers back at you. But I, I'll say at least what we've

1689
02:12:11,765 --> 02:12:15,625
accommodated in the plan is, uh, lot a on that east side is

1690
02:12:16,125 --> 02:12:19,875
intended to be office space. Um, so there is, uh, uh, even

1691
02:12:20,165 --> 02:12:23,725
though, um, you know, conceptual land plan with retail hotel office

1692
02:12:24,395 --> 02:12:28,205
that, um, we feel something of this size needs to have some kind of office space

1693
02:12:28,525 --> 02:12:31,485
in there. Love it. So many of these talent, so thank you.

1694
02:12:34,495 --> 02:12:38,445
early your presentation, sir, you mentioned that you were, sorry, exclude, uh, exploring

1695
02:12:38,925 --> 02:12:41,845
the put idea in order to get more flexibility on the parking requirements.

1696
02:12:43,055 --> 02:12:46,915
could you speak more towards that? You're trying to gain more parking, less parking changes

1697
02:12:47,505 --> 02:12:51,365
in parking. What, what was the, the context? So, uh, mxd calls for structured parking

1698
02:12:51,565 --> 02:12:55,445
mm-hmm . And, uh, a surface parking space is about $3,500. A

1699
02:12:55,685 --> 02:12:59,645
structured parking space can range from 20 to 40,000. And so just with the rental rates there are there,

1700
02:13:00,265 --> 02:13:03,885
we, in order to make this a successful development, we would need some relief from the parking

1701
02:13:04,325 --> 02:13:08,285
standards in mxd. Okay. Um, so that's what kind of led to going through a pud rather

1702
02:13:08,485 --> 02:13:12,385
than just straight up bay zoning. Okay. I know I would be in,

1703
02:13:13,065 --> 02:13:16,875
in more favor trying to find a way to reduce the amount of surface area that

1704
02:13:17,165 --> 02:13:21,125
is dedicated to the parking, because as you look at it, it is a large

1705
02:13:21,685 --> 02:13:24,825
proportion of that entire plot of land. Right. And

1706
02:13:25,785 --> 02:13:29,755
as you are exploring this too, it might just be that these maps

1707
02:13:30,045 --> 02:13:33,865
aren't detailed enough. They're conceptual, they're, they're not final obviously. But

1708
02:13:34,365 --> 02:13:38,365
I, I wanna think about the people who are in lot g trying to get to lot

1709
02:13:38,725 --> 02:13:42,645
h mm-hmm . And that way they don't have to hop in their car and drive through lot f to get there.

1710
02:13:43,185 --> 02:13:46,805
or, or if you're trying to go from g to a to that business park

1711
02:13:47,235 --> 02:13:51,205
that you really could live, work, play and walk or bike

1712
02:13:51,505 --> 02:13:55,335
or do something other than hop in the car, drive through lot f cross

1713
02:13:56,275 --> 02:14:00,145
fina, go to lot e like mm-hmm . That, that defeats the purpose of

1714
02:14:00,395 --> 02:14:03,195
what I think the intent of that mxb type

1715
02:14:04,465 --> 02:14:08,285
zoning is intended for. Right, right. And, and you, and you're

1716
02:14:08,605 --> 02:14:12,085
absolutely right that the, this is not detailed to the level of where we've got crosswalks

1717
02:14:12,825 --> 02:14:16,725
and sidewalks and everything, but that kind of green spine that runs through here through the

1718
02:14:16,885 --> 02:14:20,725
whole property, the idea would be that over filming drive where would be a crosswalk with

1719
02:14:20,925 --> 02:14:24,645
some traffic calming devices and have sidewalks that would legitimately connect

1720
02:14:25,065 --> 02:14:28,805
lot g all the way over to lot a so that you could have that connectivity. And we would anticipate

1721
02:14:29,285 --> 02:14:32,965
that within the site development permit level drawings. I wanna encourage

1722
02:14:33,365 --> 02:14:37,185
that, that thought through this process of how can we best integrate the,

1723
02:14:37,745 --> 02:14:41,205
the people and the places they need to be in either third spaces or workspaces

1724
02:14:41,765 --> 02:14:45,765
or what, whatever mm-hmm . In a way that doesn't require them to hop in the car

1725
02:14:45,925 --> 02:14:49,825
and move from this parking spot to that parking spot. And that also might reduce

1726
02:14:50,305 --> 02:14:54,005
the demand on the number of parking spots that you need. Mm-hmm . Across that development.

1727
02:14:54,585 --> 02:14:58,525
mm-hmm . Absolutely. Thank you. Now, I know we're not incentivizing

1728
02:14:59,245 --> 02:15:02,965
this, you said we don't need city money or anything like that. Don't need to tears.

1729
02:15:03,785 --> 02:15:07,685
so it may be a tough sell for me to say we would

1730
02:15:07,845 --> 02:15:10,935
like to phase in this in and have some, uh, clear

1731
02:15:12,085 --> 02:15:15,685
standards for you doing that. But part of the issue here

1732
02:15:16,185 --> 02:15:19,225
is there's gotta be some give and take on this because, um,

1733
02:15:20,475 --> 02:15:24,235
this is a terrible parcel to be abandoned half

1734
02:15:24,535 --> 02:15:28,285
built out. Mm-hmm . We've have examples

1735
02:15:29,025 --> 02:15:32,955
of projects in this town without financing

1736
02:15:34,665 --> 02:15:38,645
as assured failing and having to be resold

1737
02:15:39,705 --> 02:15:43,245
to be built out. I don't want to see that happen

1738
02:15:43,745 --> 02:15:47,425
on this kind of property. It's too important, uh, parcel.

1739
02:15:48,705 --> 02:15:52,605
and so we've gotta come to some understanding about how clear we are about how

1740
02:15:52,765 --> 02:15:56,465
this dance is gonna go till the end of the tune here. Um,

1741
02:15:56,925 --> 02:16:00,405
'cause I, you've got a great plan, but it's, it's gotta be built

1742
02:16:01,745 --> 02:16:05,645
and we've gotta be clear about how that's gonna proceed. Um, so that we're

1743
02:16:05,925 --> 02:16:08,885
all doing this with from a place of integrity and accountability.

1744
02:16:12,775 --> 02:16:13,645
understood. Thank you.

1745
02:16:18,305 --> 02:16:21,885
on these plans, I see markings for detention ponds. Do you have thoughts

1746
02:16:22,555 --> 02:16:26,505
currently as to how that looks? Is it gray infrastructure? Is

1747
02:16:26,725 --> 02:16:30,585
it green infrastructure? What, what does that, what's your concept right now of

1748
02:16:30,805 --> 02:16:34,705
that? Right. So it has not been engineered just to answer that. Um,

1749
02:16:34,985 --> 02:16:38,875
but the, uh, uh, we have talked about, you know, is there ways of doing more,

1750
02:16:39,425 --> 02:16:42,925
um, kind of fighter remediation through plantings and making it more of an aesthetic

1751
02:16:43,455 --> 02:16:47,205
value than just your standard pond. Um, currently that's

1752
02:16:47,485 --> 02:16:51,445
conceptual, but what's been discussed between the design team and the, the developer in, in terms

1753
02:16:51,565 --> 02:16:55,435
of how we can amenitize those spaces and treat green water perfect.

1754
02:16:56,165 --> 02:16:59,805
I like to encourage as much of that green as we can that we has multiple

1755
02:17:00,475 --> 02:17:03,925
uses and not just a block of concrete somewhere. Right. But obviously

1756
02:17:04,525 --> 02:17:08,525
engineers, but their stamp on it and we gotta trust that too. Yeah. Yeah. Get a big splitter box

1757
02:17:08,705 --> 02:17:11,165
and and that's it. Yeah. Understood. ,

1758
02:17:16,145 --> 02:17:19,755
um, are there other comments? Can I jump in? Yes. Okay.

1759
02:17:20,665 --> 02:17:24,005
um, so I wanna start with a few things that I do like about

1760
02:17:24,785 --> 02:17:28,725
what's been presented today. Um, I appreciate that there's no

1761
02:17:28,805 --> 02:17:32,345
financial incentives requested. It's refreshing to see that. And so thanks for

1762
02:17:32,965 --> 02:17:36,585
prioritizing that. Um, the right of way donation, um,

1763
02:17:38,135 --> 02:17:42,025
compliance overall with the comprehensive plan and the intended use for this area, it

1764
02:17:42,245 --> 02:17:45,385
is meant to be, um, kind of a, a denser

1765
02:17:46,275 --> 02:17:50,205
more intensive use and I think they are achieving that

1766
02:17:50,485 --> 02:17:54,245
for us. Um, the things that I am concerned

1767
02:17:54,845 --> 02:17:58,395
about is this, this doesn't feel

1768
02:17:58,945 --> 02:18:02,845
as mixed of uses as I, as I would want it

1769
02:18:03,225 --> 02:18:07,165
to be. Um, so when I was looking at the, the

1770
02:18:07,365 --> 02:18:11,305
details there, we're looking at, um, in

1771
02:18:11,825 --> 02:18:15,605
lot d and lot g 4,000 square feet of ground floor retail

1772
02:18:15,925 --> 02:18:19,485
in each one. And I understand the market is influencing some decisions

1773
02:18:19,965 --> 02:18:23,375
there, but, um, to say that we have 19 acres

1774
02:18:24,065 --> 02:18:27,825
of mxd, we really don't. We have 8,000 square feet of

1775
02:18:28,245 --> 02:18:31,485
mxd. And so I don't think that we've quite achieved,

1776
02:18:32,505 --> 02:18:36,365
um, the objective yet of true mixing of uses here.

1777
02:18:37,305 --> 02:18:41,075
um, and then another concern that

1778
02:18:41,405 --> 02:18:44,835
I have is about that uh, five acre green belt.

1779
02:18:45,865 --> 02:18:49,765
um, if y'all could go to slide, so it's kind of going across the middle

1780
02:18:49,945 --> 02:18:52,815
of the, the screen here. If you could go onto slide

1781
02:18:54,905 --> 02:18:56,975
six, kind of the, the cover image.

1782
02:19:02,555 --> 02:19:06,525
perfect. So on this one here, that's, um, that rendering

1783
02:19:08,025 --> 02:19:11,645
to me that's what's being called green belt.

1784
02:19:12,345 --> 02:19:16,325
um, and as someone who's lived in central texas for a while in the

1785
02:19:16,445 --> 02:19:20,275
austin area, I have some specific ideas in my head about what

1786
02:19:20,615 --> 02:19:24,365
green belts mean and look like. And I don't think that

1787
02:19:24,645 --> 02:19:28,475
we are quite showing a pedestrian oriented, natural

1788
02:19:29,955 --> 02:19:32,825
kind of respite area. We're showing a parking lot

1789
02:19:34,105 --> 02:19:37,835
on the cover image of the project. This is a parking lot with

1790
02:19:38,285 --> 02:19:42,245
a a a, a mode green space in the

1791
02:19:42,365 --> 02:19:46,145
middle. I'm not seeing the connection between the,

1792
02:19:46,705 --> 02:19:50,685
uh, kind of inspiration images that are showing parks with people hanging

1793
02:19:51,225 --> 02:19:55,165
out and using that space. So I, I think there's a,

1794
02:19:55,445 --> 02:19:59,185
a disconnect there with that green belt use. So,

1795
02:19:59,905 --> 02:20:03,685
um, yeah, to me this isn't saying mixed use. It's not

1796
02:20:04,085 --> 02:20:07,835
saying green belt, it's not saying walkable. I, I think that there's

1797
02:20:08,325 --> 02:20:12,105
more we could do with this. So my

1798
02:20:12,605 --> 02:20:15,695
feedback would be for the commercial space.

1799
02:20:16,665 --> 02:20:20,605
um, I understand that you can't, the market doesn't really support you

1800
02:20:20,805 --> 02:20:24,245
doing more of it at this time. So if we could

1801
02:20:24,935 --> 02:20:28,885
maybe work somehow into the p some protections that are going

1802
02:20:29,145 --> 02:20:32,665
to make that more possible, like making sure that it is

1803
02:20:33,305 --> 02:20:37,125
street facing, um, all the, all the commercial units

1804
02:20:37,365 --> 02:20:40,795
being street facing or that they're built out, um, with,

1805
02:20:41,705 --> 02:20:44,965
um, higher, higher ceilings to accommodate

1806
02:20:45,815 --> 02:20:49,125
commercial or kitchen uses. Things that might need special

1807
02:20:50,555 --> 02:20:54,445
hvac requirements or grease traps, things like that to really ensure that

1808
02:20:54,605 --> 02:20:57,045
these are spaces that are not going to after a few years,

1809
02:20:58,755 --> 02:21:02,605
well, you know, we can't really find a, a permanent tenant for it. Let's put

1810
02:21:02,765 --> 02:21:06,725
some storage in there and call it a day. Um, so if we

1811
02:21:06,985 --> 02:21:10,265
can integrate language into the p that's going to

1812
02:21:11,145 --> 02:21:15,025
really ensure as much as possible the success of commercial in

1813
02:21:15,245 --> 02:21:19,125
these 4,000 square feet in the two separate

1814
02:21:19,435 --> 02:21:23,285
lots. Um, I think that would be really helpful,

1815
02:21:24,145 --> 02:21:27,685
um, helpful for me being able to get behind

1816
02:21:28,305 --> 02:21:31,905
the vote that is to, to support a pud for this site. Um,

1817
02:21:32,425 --> 02:21:35,985
an alternative idea would be, um, instead of retail

1818
02:21:36,445 --> 02:21:40,275
facing fina, if you actually turn the green belt into

1819
02:21:40,645 --> 02:21:44,385
a green belt retail facing the green belt, um,

1820
02:21:45,045 --> 02:21:48,845
'cause then if, if you have good quality retail, coffee, ice cream,

1821
02:21:49,405 --> 02:21:53,405
whatever at the, at the green belt, I could see how those,

1822
02:21:53,985 --> 02:21:57,885
you know, green belt use might encourage support of those businesses, but also

1823
02:21:58,125 --> 02:22:02,125
use of those businesses might encourage sup, like use of the green belt if there's

1824
02:22:02,405 --> 02:22:06,165
something interesting to activate that space right there and to really draw

1825
02:22:06,445 --> 02:22:09,985
people in. Um, so

1826
02:22:10,605 --> 02:22:14,545
I guess those are my two main feedbacks. I would love to see improvement with, um,

1827
02:22:16,405 --> 02:22:19,885
ensuring quality space is provided in those buildings for retail

1828
02:22:20,945 --> 02:22:24,405
and commercial and, um, improvements made to the green belt.

1829
02:22:27,755 --> 02:22:31,565
I'll be honest, I don't love this project overall, but it would go a long way towards

1830
02:22:31,885 --> 02:22:35,545
getting me to be able to support this one if we, if we could see those two. Mm-hmm

1831
02:22:36,005 --> 02:22:39,965
. And I appreciate that. And I, I went to this slide just 'cause I wanted to show

1832
02:22:40,165 --> 02:22:44,015
the, uh, second image on the right, uh, where

1833
02:22:44,365 --> 02:22:48,285
it has the retail space next to the green space. And again, that just at this point,

1834
02:22:49,065 --> 02:22:53,045
uh, the, that the less detailed level is just green is mowed grass

1835
02:22:53,305 --> 02:22:57,285
and the intent would be that that green belt be landscaped. And we know in

1836
02:22:57,445 --> 02:23:01,285
central texas, just having mowed lawn is never a successful use of the space just with

1837
02:23:01,895 --> 02:23:05,195
shade and upkeep. And so there'd be the intent of having more

1838
02:23:05,965 --> 02:23:09,965
features and, and, and usable areas in that, that space. And just, it's not at that level

1839
02:23:10,125 --> 02:23:14,115
of design quite yet. Uh, but certainly the intent of the greenbelt space to be much more landscape

1840
02:23:15,285 --> 02:23:19,085
designed, uh, space for use. Um, and then, uh, certainly get behind

1841
02:23:19,365 --> 02:23:23,285
the, um, retail spaces opening up to public areas or to

1842
02:23:23,445 --> 02:23:27,165
the green belt, um, to, to help support those desires. Okay. Thank you.

1843
02:23:28,185 --> 02:23:32,165
thanks. And ms. Longan, you

1844
02:23:32,285 --> 02:23:35,925
brought up some ideas that I have follow up questions on from that of knowing

1845
02:23:36,355 --> 02:23:40,285
that in that instance 8,000 square feet is what really is that

1846
02:23:40,735 --> 02:23:44,645
mixed use area 'cause of market demands. Do you have data you can

1847
02:23:44,805 --> 02:23:48,665
share with us on what those market demands are and why that is a limiting factor?

1848
02:23:50,105 --> 02:23:53,725
not off the top of my head, brett, at the moment. Um, just mostly in the experience

1849
02:23:54,365 --> 02:23:58,125
of capital partners, um, looking at how much retail

1850
02:23:58,445 --> 02:24:02,245
and from a percentage base sizes. But, uh, we could look into some data that we could

1851
02:24:02,575 --> 02:24:06,065
share, share with city staff. Yeah. That we can understand what you mean by

1852
02:24:06,625 --> 02:24:10,365
the market won't support that type of design that could help inform future

1853
02:24:11,085 --> 02:24:14,685
decisions. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Yep. Um, and then thinking

1854
02:24:15,125 --> 02:24:18,795
through that option on, on that central area of the green belt

1855
02:24:19,345 --> 02:24:22,845
in which the retail's then connected to, I know that there are some

1856
02:24:23,705 --> 02:24:27,605
cities like san antonio's river walk or other locations that are kind of

1857
02:24:27,845 --> 02:24:31,835
designed like that where you have the, the public space there, you can walk through to find

1858
02:24:32,125 --> 02:24:35,765
different retail or different food, whatever. Um, sometimes

1859
02:24:36,325 --> 02:24:40,125
those are designed to allow beer, wine to be transported

1860
02:24:40,485 --> 02:24:44,485
in that confined area. Is that something that the city could explore?

1861
02:24:45,225 --> 02:24:49,125
I'm not saying that's an endorsement, but like what, what would that process look like

1862
02:24:49,245 --> 02:24:53,105
to kind of give more options to the developer if that was

1863
02:24:53,405 --> 02:24:57,285
an incentive that could be helpful to them? I, I think we

1864
02:24:57,445 --> 02:25:01,365
definitely could, we would just lean on like tabc rules, uh, for that

1865
02:25:01,565 --> 02:25:05,465
in, in regards. So, um, but yeah, that's something that we could, we

1866
02:25:05,685 --> 02:25:07,365
could look at. Okay. Thank you.

1867
02:25:09,945 --> 02:25:13,845
so another idea that is just sprung into my mind, I know that we're

1868
02:25:14,125 --> 02:25:17,365
trying to, um, use that mxd

1869
02:25:18,585 --> 02:25:22,425
um, zoning in order to pull things kind of closer to

1870
02:25:22,645 --> 02:25:26,365
the roadway and tuck parking back behind it. But that is in fact

1871
02:25:26,965 --> 02:25:30,945
creating a parking lot that people have to walk through in order to

1872
02:25:31,305 --> 02:25:34,195
use the green belt. Do we value more

1873
02:25:36,465 --> 02:25:40,235
having the units closer to the roadway for the kind

1874
02:25:40,525 --> 02:25:43,865
of like urban feel or do we value more having the units closer to

1875
02:25:44,715 --> 02:25:48,665
greenbelt as for parking or

1876
02:25:48,885 --> 02:25:52,675
maybe we do a bit of both where some things are right on the green belt and some things have

1877
02:25:53,405 --> 02:25:57,245
a parking buffer. It is the, the crux there where it's, if you

1878
02:25:57,545 --> 02:26:01,045
really value pushing things to the street, then you get the sea of parking

1879
02:26:01,665 --> 02:26:05,605
in between all the buildings and it's hard to make those spaces really attractive. And so this

1880
02:26:05,865 --> 02:26:09,845
was kind of the, uh, you know, the happy medium of like,

1881
02:26:10,005 --> 02:26:14,005
can we get enough green in that space to break up the asphalt and make it really

1882
02:26:14,325 --> 02:26:18,205
desirable? But I would tend to agree that if we could get more of

1883
02:26:18,365 --> 02:26:21,455
that green right up against that, um, commercial

1884
02:26:22,545 --> 02:26:26,485
and and residential units, that it activates that space more allowing for some of

1885
02:26:26,645 --> 02:26:30,645
the, the parking out on the street edge because that the right of

1886
02:26:30,765 --> 02:26:34,725
way is not quite as walkable as the green space would be. And I think that

1887
02:26:34,805 --> 02:26:38,675
that's the intent of mixed use design is to be able to make it walkable. Yeah.

1888
02:26:38,965 --> 02:26:42,725
like if I'm in building lot d building four and I wanna

1889
02:26:43,065 --> 02:26:46,005
go over to, I don't know, something

1890
02:26:47,185 --> 02:26:50,665
lot a building one or lot e building three, um,

1891
02:26:51,595 --> 02:26:54,805
have to walk through parking lots or drive to get there.

1892
02:26:56,285 --> 02:27:00,225
that's not the most pleasant experience when it's like a hundred degrees outside for large swaths

1893
02:27:00,665 --> 02:27:04,365
of the year here. Uh, so food for thought,

1894
02:27:05,565 --> 02:27:09,405
definite food for thought. I do agree, um, with what vice chair stegel

1895
02:27:09,605 --> 02:27:13,485
said, this is a very important parcel for the city of kyle. The proximity

1896
02:27:13,845 --> 02:27:17,225
to the hospital, it's very central. There's gonna be, um,

1897
02:27:18,725 --> 02:27:22,565
a lot of importance on this area of our city. A lot of people are gonna move through here

1898
02:27:22,975 --> 02:27:26,845
every day and we want people to stay and use it. And so I think it's important that

1899
02:27:27,085 --> 02:27:30,845
this area is attractive and durable and it's something that,

1900
02:27:32,265 --> 02:27:36,245
you know, 20, 30 years from now when it needs reinvestment, somebody

1901
02:27:36,325 --> 02:27:39,965
would be happy to to do that. And I think that starts with

1902
02:27:40,465 --> 02:27:44,125
how it's designed at the start. Thank you.

1903
02:27:47,185 --> 02:27:47,805
any other feedback?

1904
02:27:53,045 --> 02:27:56,685
I guess not. Yeah. Cool. Appreciate your feedback counsel. Thanks for being here. Absolutely.

1905
02:27:58,675 --> 02:28:02,285
okay. I think we did it. We did. We're at the end.

1906
02:28:02,805 --> 02:28:06,765
. All right. So do y'all want me to close this out

1907
02:28:06,925 --> 02:28:10,885
or does somebody wanna make a motion? I may make a motion that we adjourn.

1908
02:28:11,605 --> 02:28:14,545
a motion to adjourn from vice chair stegel. Seconded by,

1909
02:28:16,405 --> 02:28:20,365
seconded. Commissioner copeland, I just drug that out for an

1910
02:28:20,485 --> 02:28:24,245
extra 30 seconds 'cause I just really enjoyed being here with y'all tonight. You just on your own every

1911
02:28:24,525 --> 02:28:28,405
night or time about you. I know your own wants. Just wait. All right.

1912
02:28:29,585 --> 02:28:31,125
we are officially adjourned at 9 0 4.