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Good morning, everyone. I think we've worked out some of the technical difficulties.

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I would like to call our meeting for the GCC Energy King II coal mine class II project 2012-0089 to order.

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For the record, please note that all three commissioners are present.

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Commissioner Lacholt, Commissioner Westendorf, and myself, Commissioner Blake.

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As preliminary matter, we request that you remove your hats and turn off your cell phones.

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We would also like to request that anyone wishing to speak on any matter on today's agenda please fill out one of the pink slips.

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They are available usually right back here by the sink and give those to Jeannie here to my right.

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If

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you would please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.

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And

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to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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You'll please bear with me for a minute. I have a few notes that I need to relay to everyone here.

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Oh, first I need a motion for the agenda.

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I move that we approve the agenda.

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All in favor?

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I. I. I. Thank you.

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This will be the format of the hearing. The Planning Department applicant

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and neighbors represented by council will each have one hour in which to present the

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project or their concerns with the project. At the conclusion of those three presentations

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if time allows the board may have questions, we will take one hour for a lunch break

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from noon to one o'clock. At one o'clock and at six o'clock tonight we will

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accept public testimony on the project. Public comment will be limited to three

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minutes per speaker. It is our intent to accept public testimony until everyone

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has been heard. At the conclusion of the public testimony the board will

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likely have questions for select parties or experts. At the conclusion

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of the public comment portion tonight I will close the public comment period. The parties will

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then be allowed to an opportunity for rebuttal. The county and the represented neighbors will

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have five minutes each because GCC bears the burden of demonstrating compliance with the code GCC

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will be allocated 10 minutes for rebuttal. Finally the board will deliberate and make a

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decision. Timekeeping. The clerk to the board will time each party or speaker so

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you will hear a beep. Go off at the conclusion of your time. Please conclude

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your remarks on or before the beeper. Rules of the House. Speak directly into

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the microphone. If the red light is not illuminated, you are not being

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recorded. Because there is a court reporter here today, please be sure

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that only one person at a time speaks and that you say yes or no as opposed to nodding

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your head.

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If you would like to speak, please complete the pink slip as I mentioned earlier.

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I will call three speakers at a time, so it will be kind of like being battered up and

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on deck so that we can hear more public comment in a more timely fashion.

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If your name is called, please move to the front of the room and speak at the podium.

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We value and respect every opinion and ask the audience to do the same by refraining from applause or outbursts or disruptions.

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I would now like to ask the county attorney to describe what is to form the record for purposes of this hearing.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Cheryl Rogers, La Plata County Attorney.

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With respect to the formal record for this hearing, it will consist of the staff report

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and the 77 attachments that are listed on pages 47 through 49 of the staff report.

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We will also accept written public comment received through 4 p.m. today.

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There are a total of five PowerPoints.

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The first is from La Plata County, and that will be designated then as attachment in Exhibit 78.

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Attachment 79 will be GCC's PowerPoint. Exhibit 80 will be the PowerPoint by Cross Creek Ranch LLC.

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81 is the PowerPoint with the logo of Goldman, Robbins, and Rogers representing Southwest

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Colorado advocates, and 82 will be a PowerPoint by Southwest Colorado advocates.

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Those are the formal documents for the record.

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Since Friday, I have received six additional documents.

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documents. I want to describe those and then ask the parties if they have any objections

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to the admission of those documents. The first three were submitted by GCC and all relate

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to water supply. One is the January 28, 2015 letter from Harris Water, engineering to

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Emily Becker of CDPHE regarding a request for information. Number two is the February

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26 letter from the Colorado Department of Natural Resources, the Division of Water Resources to Jeff Craig, Attorney for GCC,

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regarding the GCC Energy LLC Substitute Water Supply Plan.

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And the third one is a document dated November 16, 2015, titled,

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GCC Energy Mine Water Supply Safe Yield Analysis, drafted by Harris Water Engineering.

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So, Mr. Smith, does the county consent or agree or have comments or concerns with the

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admission of those?

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This is Adam Smith, the Plotter County Attorney's Office.

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I'm a counsel for county staff in these proceedings.

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We have no objection.

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We would note that we fully support the three water documents being on the record.

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However, I'd like to briefly make a record on one issue relating to one of those

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water documents.

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We could certainly discuss these matters later, but for now I'd like to just make a

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record of an issue specifically speaking about the Harris Water Engineering letter dated

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January 28th directed to CDPHE.

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Paragraph 8 of that letter requests that GCC be allowed to only have one pumping unit

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instead of redundant systems, and they are proposing that if the pumping unit goes

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offline that they can simply haul potable water until the equipment is fixed.

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That would likely contradict with at least staff's proposed condition number six, which

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prohibits water hauling after September 30th, 2016.

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Other than that issue, at least with the three water documents, we support them going

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on the record.

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We have no objections to the other documents, but frankly, we don't see the relevance

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of all the documents to today's hearing.

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for Danielson and Robbins and the three water documents. Can you come to the

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mic please?

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Attorney representing Cross Creek Range. We haven't even read all of the documents

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that came in over the weekend. We our initial conclusion is they're very

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incomplete that to make a complete picture on these we would then have to

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come back and give counter documents, so we do object to the last minute receipt of these

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documents.

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Thank you.

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That's why.

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Mr. Chairman, County Attorney Carolyn White, Counsel for the Applicant.

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I would just note that these are documents that have already been in the record for a

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very long time, more than a year in some cases, and the only reason for us submitting

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them at this time was that they were not listed by staff as being attachments to

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the staff report and in the event that issues addressed in those documents were arose at

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the time of this hearing today, we wanted them to be handy and easily available.

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But as a practical matter, all of the documents which have been submitted to the county over

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the many years of this application process are technically part of the record.

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These documents are not new and counsel for the opponents certainly would have had the

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opportunity to review them in the record had they so chosen over the last several

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years.

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So we would urge you to accept them for today, but even if they aren't part of today's record

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They are still part of the record for the application

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Mr. Chair and what I would recommend is that the board discuss and decide on these three documents

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And then we can talk about the other three and Mr. Robbins have any comment

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Jeff Robbins for the record and I in agreement with Mr. Danielson's comments

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discussion

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I have a question as it relates to these documents

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Ms. White, you indicated that these were already part of the file, but that they hadn't been

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included with the staff report.

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Are they among the exhibits that were in the, you know, is there a currently labeled

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exhibit that there were 77 initial exhibits?

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Are you saying these were among those 77 original exhibits?

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No.

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They were not among the 77 exhibits and that was why we thought it appropriate to have them

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convenient for you.

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There are hundreds of documents which are not among the 77 exhibits because this application

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is voluminous and complex and has been going on for some time and staff understandably

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had to select those documents which they felt most relevant for your review to attach

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today or else the record would have been too long for you to review today.

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So, all we were doing was just bringing them forward from where they were in the record

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to have them handy and convenient for today's hearing.

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Mr. Chair, if I may.

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Yes.

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Adam Smith, County Attorney's Office.

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We would like to clarify that some of these documents were certainly in the planning file,

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but it is not our position that they were ever made part of the record, i.e. presented

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to the Board of County Commissioners for your review as part of hearing this land

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use application this morning.

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Discussion?

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Mr. Chair, I would like the GCC Attorney to state for the record the relevance of these

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materials to this hearing.

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Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Carolyn White again.

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Given our understanding that the opponents intended to raise some questions specifically

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related to water quality and availability to serve the project and that these documents

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contain some facts relevant to that point, we felt it appropriate to include them

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today so that we could refer to them in answering those questions if they arise.

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Thank you.

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So, Commissioner's one option that you have given Ms. White's response is to not necessarily

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add them to the record now, but wait and see if, in fact, the other parties do discuss

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these topics and then at that point in time Ms. White could indicate their relevance

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and then you could accept them.

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I

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may. I'm not inclined to accept these documents onto the record.

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What was contained and what

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would be contained in this record, those 77, I believe it was 77 exhibits, has been available

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for a long time to get these supplemental documents. Literally the day before the hearing,

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I think is not timely, and I think that the applicant had a lot of time to review those

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to figure out, have other important documents been included, the arguments raised by the

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opponents of the project, I think, have been clear for a number of years, and I think

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for purposes of rebuttal, which is kind of what Ms. Rogers was just talking about,

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they may be relevant at that time, but at this point, I think they were not timely

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filed and I would not support having them included in the record.

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Mr. Chair, question for the county attorney, how much time did the applicant have?

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The staff report for this hearing was released to the public the two weeks ago.

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So that is when we were very formal with the number of attachments.

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I think it's substantially similar to what was at the PC level, but what was the exact

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date, Daniel?

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If

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I may, it's the opponents have not had a reasonable period of time to review the documents

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just to fortify the justification for my position.

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Thank you.

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In reviewing these documents, which I had the opportunity to review, they all were older

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in time period.

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Therefore, I am inclined to accept them on the record today, but I guess I will entertain a motion and see where we go with it.

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Do I have a motion?

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I guess

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we don't have a motion to admit them.

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In which case they will not be admitted.

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Thank you.

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Okay, so Mr. Chair, the fourth letter is dated May 27th, 2016. It's from Gina Nance, GCC vice president, environment and energy to Daniel Murray, La Plata County senior planner regarding wild earth guardian citizens complaint submitted to the office of surface mining reclamation and enforcement dated May 19, 2016.

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I would like to note that the complaint filed by Wild Earth Guardian citizens is not part

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of the record, and so if you agree to add item 4, it will probably be necessary to also

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add that document, which I believe is about 80 pages or so with exhibits.

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So Mr. Smith, do you have a position on this one?

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The staff does not object. We question the relevance of the document though.

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Danielson and Robbins.

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Yes. I just say we don't think this is relevant and we therefore would suggest not putting it in the record

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because we have to put all this other material in the record.

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We aren't going to say anything about it during the hearing.

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Ms. White.

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Mr. Chairman, County Attorney Carolyn White again.

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And our reason for considering it necessary was our understanding that it was the intention

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of the Council for the Opponents to introduce that information, so if, in fact, they don't,

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then we would agree that it's not relevant and it's not necessary.

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If the Wild Earth Guardians complaint is referenced as part of the opposition to the

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application, then we would reserve and request the opportunity to reiterate our suggestion

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that this document ought to be included in the record.

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Mr. Chair, if we may hear from Council Robbins.

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He's deferring to Mr. Danielson. You'll let me know if you're not.

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I agree.

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And Mr. Chair, again for the record and for the listening public, can you state the subject matter of the Wild Earth Guardians?

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It relates to, it's a citizens complaint that relates to the Office of Surface Mining

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Reclamation and Enforcement, the federal process related to BLM lease with GCC.

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That's not overly elaborate, but.

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If I may follow up, Mr. Chair, does it in any way relate to the use of the County

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I'm trying to remember. It does reference La Plata County in a few sections. Adam, do

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you recall? Does the Wild Earth Citizens Complaint reference the County Road? Yes, it does.

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I believe it's appropriate to not accept this exhibit onto the record either, Wild Earth

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Guardians, if they have a complaint, can be here today and make public comment or otherwise

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submit public comment.

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And I've heard no parties saying they support introduction of it at this time, as long

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is there's an opportunity to bring it up as what I'm going to call rebuttal evidence

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again.

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Is that correct?

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Fair characterization, Ms. White?

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Yes.

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Okay.

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So that would be my view on this is not to admit this into the record at this time.

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Thank you.

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Mr. Chair, I would support Commissioner Wessendorff's suggestion.

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Thank you.

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Okay.

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Last round.

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There is a May 27, 2016 letter from Trent Peterson, Vice President, GCC Energy to Daniel Murray LaPlata County Senior Planner regarding GCC information on King I.

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Once that letter was distributed, I did receive a response for Mr. Danielson dated May 30, 2016, regarding GCC King I,

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and discussing Mr. Peterson's letter of May 27th on King I.

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If I may, if the Board allows the letter for Mr. Peterson

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to become part of the record, then the letter

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for Mr. Danielson should be admitted as well.

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So, Mr. Smith, do you have a position on these?

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I mean, staff does object to the inclusion

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of these documents because they specifically contradict

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a proposed finding that would be finding number seven,

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which notes that this Class D-Lanies permit

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for the King II coal mine specifically does not consider or include any land uses associated

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with King I coal mine. I believe both documents are in their entirety dealing with separate

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land use from county staff's position.

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Mr. Danielsons and Robbins.

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Yes. We've received Mr. Peterson's letter Friday evening after working hours. We don't

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object to it being part of the record as long as my reply of yesterday is also part

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of the record.

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That's why we agree with county staff that these are documents which are not relevant

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because it's for a separate land use, however, if that is an issue in the hearing today,

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which we understand that the opponents intend to make it, then we feel that both documents

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ought to be included.

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We've read the rebuttal issue yet again.

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That's how it looks to me.

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Thank you.

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We'll wait for that time, then.

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Thank you, Mr. Chair.

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I think we're done.

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Thank you, Mr. Danielson.

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I mean, sorry, thank you,

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please proceed.

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Thank you.

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Daniel Murray, County Planning Department.

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I'll introduce the county staff before I begin.

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Jim Davis is the Public Works Director.

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Damian Paduto is the Planning Department,

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Community Development Services Director.

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Adam Smith is County Assistant County Deputy County Attorney.

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I'll get underway.

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Do you mind switching the screens?

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Chairman Blake, very clearly outlined the format for today.

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I'll give you a quick overview of my presentation.

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I'll speak to background, our analysis, areas of concern,

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and as with most projects or all projects,

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I will provide a recommendation.

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Our discussion today or my presentation will be both big picture

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as well as very detailed at times.

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So we're going to be transitioning between those lines of thinking,

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and I'm going to be doing all the presenting for the county

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so you get to hear me for the next hour or so, but I am assured that during Q&A

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you will hear from all of staff at some point. Just to give us some context, King

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II is in the western portion of the county. Zooming in further, it is in an

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area west of State Highway 140. It's behind Hesperus Mountain, and I think one

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One of the values of this slide, which we can return to, is the network of county roads.

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You see county road north 120 and green.

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You see county road 120 south, which cuts roughly halfway in this image.

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And then county road 119, which travels all the way to county road 140 at the township

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of Klein.

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So this is an image of the King II site.

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It's in a drainage to Hey Gulch.

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It's roughly 26 acres, and there are 416 acres of below-ground mining activity.

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And I'm going to elaborate on the below-ground in just a moment, but this is the aerial of the site.

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So some brief history on this project.

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In 2006, the county determined that we did not have jurisdiction over the mine,

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given its location on state landboard land.

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In 2010, that determination was reversed, and GCC was notified of the need for a Class II land use permit.

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In 2012, GCC submitted their application, and that has been the subject of review to

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date.

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It's been referenced at previous meetings that there are roughly 43 technical studies

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that number presumably has only grown since the Planning Commission.

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These studies touch upon all aspects of the project.

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There have been six neighborhood meetings, there has been formation of various citizen

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groups, abundant public notice and engagement with landowners, and seven Planning Commission

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meetings since the fall of 2014, including one up until just a month ago.

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A pivotal moment in this process occurred at the March 3rd Planning Commission hearing,

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where the Planning Department's recommendation was for denial.

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This was based upon disagreement on several areas.

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One was the maximum number of trucks, at which time the phase road improvements would

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be completed.

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We can refer to that as the 80 versus 100.

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I think the conversation has now shifted to the 80 versus 55 but nevertheless the number

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of trucks was an outstanding item between the county and the applicant and that was

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the basis for our recommendation two months ago.

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Second was the absence of date specifics for road improvements.

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The applicant wanted the road improvements to be contingent upon actions of other agencies

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specifically the BLM.

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Our recommendation was for those phases to be date specific and we have achieved

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that outcome. There are other items that were outstanding at the time such as just word

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languages and terms of the RIA which have all been addressed.

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Ultimately, the Planning Commission provided direction to staff and GCC to go and resolve

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these issues. The parties were allotted two weeks for that discussion and to return

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to the Planning Commission on April 14th. We did successfully come to terms on the

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Road Improvement Agreement, the RIA. At the April 14th hearing, staff was able to report

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GCC's agreement to the 80 trucks, as well as those date-specific improvements. This

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does not altogether satisfy the public concerns which were heard in April and they will be

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heard again today.

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So the Board, you're very familiar with the Class 2 Land Use Permit. I'm going to

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take a moment and explain what the Road Improvement Agreement does, the RIA, and

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why we're utilizing that mechanism. GCC is an existing use and therefore it's necessary

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to bring GCC into compliance with the land use code through a series of phases. These

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phases require road improvements with corresponding truck limits. Unlike other proposals where

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the development is only on paper when we approve it or act on it, GCC exists today and

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And it is in operation today, and therefore the RIA is the planning tool to achieve compliance

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with the land use code.

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Although the RIA is a flexible tool when it comes to timing, we are upholding the standards

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of the land use code, specifically the road standards, those standards are being met.

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The only variation here, the only variable we have to work with is timing, because they

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are in fact in existing use.

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The timing in this case is not the norm.

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Existing with a typical project, I'm going to touch upon water sewer access and other

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elements on the left side of the screen.

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If going through my presentation on the right side, these are topics you would like to be

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addressed.

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We're happy to do so, but they are not slides specifically.

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Wastewater, parking, hydrogeology, subsidence, as well as the 12 cents maintenance fee

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of the RIA.

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But I'm happy to elaborate on those and any other items that you have.

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So I'm using this slide again to actually orient us.

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This is the red square surrounding the state land board land.

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It's the 26 acres. It's much bigger.

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But 26 acres is what GCC occupies.

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So keep that image in mind.

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And I've intentionally put a very busy slide up in front of you

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to demonstrate that this is an example of the different jurisdictions at play.

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In red, you see the Colorado Division of Reclamation and Mining Safety

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as it relates to King I on the southern portion of the road and on the northern portion of

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120 we see this is that same red square, that's King II.

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In blue you see GCC's existing mining area and that is the Office of Service Mining and

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Reclamation and Enforcement is the blue outline and then green is the Bureau of Land Management

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area at which GCC is currently exploring a lease modification.

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What's not shown here up to the north would be the 24 locations at which GCC is also doing exploratory boring.

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They are drilling to analyze the composition of the ground in any available coal.

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If that exploration is successful, GCC will have to go through what's known as a lease by application,

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which is a whole new NEPA process.

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The purpose of this slide is to focus us in terms of what we are discussing and what we're not discussing.

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Although the county does have cooperating agency status with the BLM relative to their lease modification,

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the areas in green, that is not the subject of today's review.

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We are not here to talk about the EA or the NEVA process.

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We are focused almost entirely on the surface impacts as it relates to this mine and the road.

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areas where we have some overlapping review for below-ground have to do with groundwater and vibration.

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Moving on to proof of water, as with all projects.

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The demand has been estimated by GCC to be roughly 2.5 acre feet for domestic use, that's for employees.

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And dust suppression within the mine accounts for roughly 28 acre feet, so the total is 40 acre feet

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is what's been proposed as GCC's water demand.

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Their supply comes from three sources.

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First being La Plata River Diversion.

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That is not a water use that's being put to use by GCC.

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They do have that option, but it is a very junior right,

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and it's not our understanding that they're exercising.

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Groundwater wells are also part of their, were part of the proposal, however, they have not

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been constructed and therefore they have not been analyzed as part of their proof of water.

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Proof of water is coming from the Huntington ag land dry up. It is comprised of two different

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water rights. One is 11 acre feet in a 2007 water right and there's an additional 40

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acre feet in a 2015 Water Right case, which is pending Water Court.

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The total, 44 acres of ag land dry up and the Substitute Water Supply Plan, but GCC

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currently has secured to allow them to utilize these two water rights.

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Specifically the 44 acre feet is the subject of the Substitute Water Supply Plan just

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this last February was approved.

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So the total water supply is 51 acres and those are of acre feet and those are the only approved water sources for this use.

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Delivery and storage is via the Hague Gulch Ditch and the Huntington Lateral.

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GCC is currently constructing a new reservoir for roughly 40 acre feet of water.

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This is 3.5 acres of surface area, 10 to 15 feet deep.

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It's a gravity-fed system through a six-inch pipe from the Mesa down to King II.

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This is probably, as a good time as any, to speak to AG dry-up and concerns that may

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be associated with that.

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One document that we have is the Fort Lewis Mesa Planning Group speaks to concerns

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with AG dry-up, and in that sense I would offer the alternatives.

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If they're not going to do ag dry-up, it would either be water hauling, which is not an accepted

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long-term option for the land use code, or well water.

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Well water, GCC has chosen not to pursue because it was their understanding, I can't speak for GCC,

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but it was commented during the last year and a half that there was a lot of public concern

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with drawing down that much water from wells.

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So they elected not to go that route and is utilizing the irrigation water.

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This is leased water, so there is the potential that it could ultimately return back to ag irrigation use in the future.

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But currently, ECC is drawing upon that 51 acre feet as their proof of water.

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It will be a water decreed, water right through water court.

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Moving on to roads.

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This is an image that shows the current road.

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It's known to be a farm-to-market road.

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There is no mistaking that it is a substandard road for the 6.4-mile segment of County Road 120 North.

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As it exists today, it serves the general public as well as GCC.

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Given GCC's impacts, they are required to improve the road to county standards.

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In 2014, GCC traffic accounted for approximately 99 percent of the loading on the road by weight

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and about 67 percent of the volume of the road.

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To mitigate these impacts, GCC has interim measures in place which I'll elaborate on

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until they fulfill their responsibility to improve the road to county standards.

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This includes watering of the road to suppress dust as evident in this photo, as well as

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reduced speeds, shown on the right-hand side of the photo, background traffic 35, truck

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traffic 25.

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Road standard at which the road will be improved is typical for projects of

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this traffic count, and that includes two 12-foot travel lanes, so a 24-foot wide road

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paved three-foot shoulders on either side. They can be graveled. This image here shows

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paved shoulders. It would be a 60-foot right-of-way, and the horizontal and vertical

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alignment would meet county road standards. That is essentially the tightness of the turns

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and your ability to see down the road.

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We have a poster road. It's an example of a road built to county standard and also in

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challenging terrain.

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I'm making good time, so I might even slow down a little. We're

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going to spend the bulk of our conversation today. This is a table that we created.

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It is the road improvement agreement schedule and the truck limits. I'm going to go line

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by line. What I've done is taken that same schedule and we've tried to do some color

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coordination here and show what the proposed road improvement schedule looks like. Phase

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one would be temporary pavement adjacent to two residences on Counter Road 120. This

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is approximately one mile. It's shown in pink. It's just the line of pink.

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During

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this time, the truck limit would be 80 trucks, so that's 160 trips. For the most

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First part will refer to the number of trucks, but that number is technically double when

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the truck goes in and leaves.

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There are two key aspects to phase one.

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First is dust mitigation.

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Our focus is on controlling dust.

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Contrary to what's been stated, the county is not avoiding dust monitoring due to its

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complexities.

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The fact of the matter is it is a very complex matter, which is why there are

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dueling professional recommendations surrounding air quality modeling.

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But we believe in focusing on treating the dust, not monitoring the dust.

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Treatment includes paving the one-mile stretch to significantly reduce dust as the first road improvement.

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This is scheduled to occur in 2016, and it's been communicated to me that could occur as soon as June 1st.

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Another way of stating this is by the time that the modeling equipment is in place, the road will be paved.

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The specifications for the road paving include geotechnical boring and grading, application

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of a 3-inch hot mix pavement 24 feet wide in the existing road alignment.

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You'll be striped as well.

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For the remaining 3-mile portion, so from the pink line to King 2, the road will remain

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gravel.

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However, there are no residences on that portion of the road, and there will be

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continued application of water as well as magchloride as needed to manage dust.

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Visual monitoring and the application of water and items as magchloride is an accepted practice

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of CDPHE Air Quality Control Commission.

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This application of the temporary paving is entirely different than the application

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this past fall that was known as recycled asphalt.

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It did not perform as intended due to the time of year, possibly even due to the application.

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But this treatment is a three-inch layer of asphalt.

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It's my understanding that that can, there's being designed to last up to a three-year period,

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although that's not its intended lifetime.

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So it is a much higher standard than what was applied in the last fall.

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The second aspect of this first phase is the availability of buffering to two residences along the road.

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The Wave Engineering Report documents the ability for a 4 to 7 decibel reduction of noise after the introduction of a buffering wall.

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These buffering walls, the two of them, would be located on private property,

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and should a landowner wish to have that buffering wall constructed sooner, that is available to them,

454
00:37:45,720 --> 00:37:50,320
It can also be constructed to coincide with Phase 2, which I'll get to next.

455
00:37:59,110 --> 00:38:02,390
November 2017 is the conclusion of Phase 2.

456
00:38:03,150 --> 00:38:07,330
That is to permanently reconstruct the two-mile section here shown in blue.

457
00:38:08,450 --> 00:38:14,370
The temporary asphalt comes up and the road will be reconstructed to county standards.

458
00:38:14,870 --> 00:38:19,210
That is a two-mile stretch from the bottom of the hill all the way to King 1.

459
00:38:20,050 --> 00:38:22,470
This improves the road adjacent to three residences.

460
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:25,950
the potential for better alignment of Roberts Ridge Road,

461
00:38:26,650 --> 00:38:29,310
which serves additional properties up on higher points,

462
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:33,350
improved line of sight, and turning movements at constrained corners,

463
00:38:33,410 --> 00:38:34,370
such as Wiltsies Corner.

464
00:38:35,390 --> 00:38:38,290
Phase two also includes the widening down here.

465
00:38:39,010 --> 00:38:41,090
This is a small section of blue.

466
00:38:41,430 --> 00:38:42,970
This area is known as the Narrows.

467
00:38:43,390 --> 00:38:47,690
We've targeted these areas as areas that specifically need improvements

468
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:49,530
at a high priority.

469
00:38:49,530 --> 00:38:57,310
Phase 3, also 2017, next year, includes the reconstruction of the 90-degree corner.

470
00:38:58,250 --> 00:39:00,570
This would be for improved alignment and turning movements.

471
00:39:01,150 --> 00:39:03,150
It's about a two-tenths of a mile section of road.

472
00:39:04,370 --> 00:39:10,590
So once phases 2 and 3 are completed to full county standards, these are not temporary or interim,

473
00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:16,110
with the completion of those improvements, 7 out of 8 constrained areas on this road

474
00:39:16,110 --> 00:39:18,690
will have been improved to county standards.

475
00:39:18,690 --> 00:39:24,250
At that time, the GCC would be allowed to increase up to 100 trucks per day.

476
00:39:29,790 --> 00:39:35,850
The question has been raised, why not limit any increase in trucks until all the improvements are made?

477
00:39:37,150 --> 00:39:39,990
And the RRA is a significant commitment for GCC.

478
00:39:40,850 --> 00:39:43,430
This schedule demonstrates compliance with the land use code.

479
00:39:44,110 --> 00:39:48,150
It's reasonable to allow an increase of trucks proportional to the road improvements.

480
00:39:49,110 --> 00:39:51,070
Furthermore, it's an incentive-based schedule.

481
00:39:51,070 --> 00:39:56,510
If GCC wants to achieve the higher number of trucks, the 120, they can expedite the schedule to do that.

482
00:39:57,990 --> 00:40:01,390
The question has also been raised, why is there a gap in 2018?

483
00:40:02,430 --> 00:40:06,450
Why not require all the improvements be done sooner, even as soon as 2020?

484
00:40:07,390 --> 00:40:09,330
Could it technically be done faster, possibly?

485
00:40:10,190 --> 00:40:14,870
However, the county believes this is a reasonable timeframe to bring an existing use into compliance.

486
00:40:15,850 --> 00:40:21,950
I'll also note, what is perceived to be a gap in 2018 is actually an accomplishment,

487
00:40:22,270 --> 00:40:27,870
because if you recall, there was significant impasse between the county and GCC.

488
00:40:28,590 --> 00:40:33,070
And what was offered by GCC was to move phase 3 up to 2017.

489
00:40:33,410 --> 00:40:36,130
That was originally parked in 2018.

490
00:40:36,670 --> 00:40:42,250
But in order to achieve this agreement, they offered to move that phase up.

491
00:40:42,250 --> 00:40:47,050
And as I state, that is a highly constrained corner and a high priority for improvement.

492
00:40:51,210 --> 00:41:00,970
Phase four, by the end of 2020, this includes full reconstruction, full depth reconstruction, as is known, for the first 2.3 miles.

493
00:41:01,970 --> 00:41:07,090
That's this area here, a shade of red, depending what's being done.

494
00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:14,230
This would be the full length of the road that is paved today minus the 90-degree corner,

495
00:41:14,230 --> 00:41:16,650
because that would have already been improved the year before, two years before.

496
00:41:17,890 --> 00:41:20,170
And the truck limit during this time would be 100 trucks.

497
00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:28,820
Final phase to be completed by 2022 results in the widening and regrading and paving

498
00:41:28,820 --> 00:41:30,420
of the last two miles shown in green.

499
00:41:31,340 --> 00:41:34,400
Upon completion, the mine can achieve an average of 120 trucks.

500
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:36,120
That's 240 ADT.

501
00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:39,140
Truck limits are monthly averages.

502
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,860
And with all stages, there's a 20% allowance to increase trucks to account for weather.

503
00:41:44,140 --> 00:41:46,260
So there will be higher days, there will be lower days.

504
00:41:46,260 --> 00:41:49,660
on average they have to equal either the 80, the 100, or the 120.

505
00:41:51,020 --> 00:41:53,820
It is also based on a six-day week, no hauling on Sundays.

506
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:54,520
I'm

507
00:41:58,330 --> 00:42:01,310
going to move on, but I'm happy to return to this slide

508
00:42:01,310 --> 00:42:03,550
and any of these if you have questions about the phasing.

509
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,460
So with respect to compatibility, there are six criteria in which we evaluate,

510
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,340
four of which apply specifically to the importance of these date specifics

511
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,000
for the road improvements.

512
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,800
Traffic will not create a safety hazard, criterion A.

513
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,920
The road is substandard with respect to width and surface and alignment.

514
00:42:23,580 --> 00:42:26,700
That's been explained even and shown visually with the slides.

515
00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:29,680
These road standards are very prescriptive.

516
00:42:30,220 --> 00:42:31,900
They are intended to achieve safety.

517
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:34,200
This is also a compatibility criteria.

518
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,980
With date-specific road improvements and corresponding truck limits,

519
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:41,140
the project now satisfies not only the road standards,

520
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,900
but our compatibility standard for safety.

521
00:42:45,420 --> 00:42:46,260
Criterion B.

522
00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:49,740
The development will not have a negative impact on neighbors.

523
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:56,520
Similarly, having put forth known dates, this satisfies two areas.

524
00:42:56,820 --> 00:43:04,580
It goes back to the ability to mitigate dust in a very timely manner on the 3.9-mile section of gravel.

525
00:43:05,620 --> 00:43:07,860
As I mentioned, the best remedy for dust is to pave it.

526
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:14,540
We now have certainty as to when those improvements will occur, including this summer and the subsequent phases.

527
00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:16,420
Secondly, noise.

528
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,580
The paved road cuts down on noise.

529
00:43:18,940 --> 00:43:20,260
That's evident in the consultant reports.

530
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:22,920
This is a primary quality of life issue

531
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,640
and can occur on a timely and now predictable basis.

532
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:29,620
There is a condition that road noise will not exceed

533
00:43:29,620 --> 00:43:32,840
86 decibels as measured 50 feet from the edge of the road.

534
00:43:33,300 --> 00:43:37,840
And that is in reference to what we have been able

535
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:42,080
to draw from state statutes as a noise level.

536
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:49,420
criterion C and F, I'll speak to together and that's to protect views as well as privacy.

537
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:55,900
The road improvement schedule that I just walked through does include the ability for noise

538
00:43:55,900 --> 00:43:58,440
and visual buffering to be introduced at two residences.

539
00:43:59,140 --> 00:44:04,620
This is a key component of compatibility and what's changed since March is that we now know

540
00:44:04,620 --> 00:44:10,020
the exact date at which those improvements will begin and they're going to be available

541
00:44:10,020 --> 00:44:15,480
up until and through phase five, so a landowner can elect to have that buffering wall introduced

542
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:16,960
sooner or later.

543
00:44:18,620 --> 00:44:23,540
Criterion E, with respect to character of the neighborhood, mining has existed in Hague

544
00:44:23,540 --> 00:44:28,100
Gulch since 1941, clearly in established use and part of the area.

545
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,300
At the same time, the current use is at a scale not seen before, and the objective

546
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:35,580
of this land use permit is to mitigate those impacts.

547
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,580
These mitigation measures are intended to achieve compatibility.

548
00:44:40,980 --> 00:44:44,380
These include the reduction of speed, as I've mentioned, for safety,

549
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,200
that the trucks will operate Monday through Saturday.

550
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:52,380
80 percent of trucking will occur between daylight hours at 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.

551
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:55,840
to allow a reprieve at nights, and there will be no hauling on Sundays.

552
00:44:57,140 --> 00:44:58,980
We now achieved an agreement

553
00:44:58,980 --> 00:44:59,980
Thank you very much for your time.

554
00:45:00,110 --> 00:45:04,890
Upon the schedule of road improvements and the mitigation measures which enable a determination of compatibility.

555
00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:12,640
One criterion I didn't get to was D, and that was protection of groundwater.

556
00:45:14,180 --> 00:45:18,140
This will be a requirement. It also is a requirement of CDRMS.

557
00:45:18,900 --> 00:45:24,040
And given this overlap between county and the state, the county is referring to state regulations

558
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,120
and the monitoring of groundwater impacts through what's known as technical revision 26.

559
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:38,380
That is a document that the state is currently reviewing and speaks to the water quality or groundwater monitoring plan.

560
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:46,040
A summary of this monitoring plan includes four groundwater monitoring locations and there's three wells at each location.

561
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:57,100
The well clusters consist of one well drilled in the menophee formation, above the coal seam, one well drilled into the coal seam, and one drilled below the coal seam.

562
00:45:57,100 --> 00:46:03,600
The monitoring will collect data for a full set of analytes, both upstream and downstream

563
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:04,160
of the mine.

564
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:10,340
To date, the hydrologic studies have concluded that there are no linkages between the mining

565
00:46:10,340 --> 00:46:11,880
activity and groundwater pollution.

566
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:16,500
Nevertheless, monitoring will continue as regulated by CDRMS.

567
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:23,120
Should the Board have additional concerns on groundwater monitoring or the hydrologic

568
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:30,320
conditions, the consultants are here to speak to that matter in more detail,

569
00:46:34,890 --> 00:46:35,530
arguably the

570
00:46:35,530 --> 00:46:40,630
most debated portion of the project, and that is the truck limits on the road.

571
00:46:42,050 --> 00:46:44,070
So a couple of clarifications before I get into this.

572
00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:48,030
This is GCC's chosen route to use the Northern 120.

573
00:46:48,550 --> 00:46:53,530
Should GCC have or decide in the future to put forth an alternative road such as

574
00:46:53,530 --> 00:46:55,430
a haul road or even a loop route?

575
00:46:55,430 --> 00:47:02,290
But we would revisit these numbers, that would be a major amendment to the project, but we

576
00:47:02,290 --> 00:47:05,990
are basing our analysis based on what GCC has chosen as their route.

577
00:47:06,750 --> 00:47:12,790
Second, these are trucks, as I mentioned, and they are based on a monthly average with

578
00:47:12,790 --> 00:47:14,390
a 20% maximum.

579
00:47:15,430 --> 00:47:19,310
So I'm going to begin by looking at the 120, that's the upper limit once all road

580
00:47:19,310 --> 00:47:21,910
improvements are completed and work down to the 180.

581
00:47:23,590 --> 00:47:26,490
I'm going to lay out the factors that we use to arrive at these numbers.

582
00:47:27,510 --> 00:47:28,910
Why we support the 120.

583
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:31,390
Here you see data points on the left.

584
00:47:32,210 --> 00:47:34,270
2006, GCC was at 55 trucks.

585
00:47:34,450 --> 00:47:36,390
2010, 59, and so on.

586
00:47:36,770 --> 00:47:41,470
That number increased up until 2014-15, around 94 trucks, average.

587
00:47:44,340 --> 00:47:48,360
GCC's proposal originally on the right side of your screen was for 156.

588
00:47:48,740 --> 00:47:50,980
So now we see our spectrum being framed out for us.

589
00:47:51,900 --> 00:47:54,240
Fortunately, the 156 is actually off the table.

590
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,880
That is not GCC's proposal, although it was what we used to arrive at our conclusion,

591
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:00,520
our recommendation.

592
00:48:01,860 --> 00:48:04,960
The next data point I'll introduce would be the 100.

593
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:11,900
This is the number that's been recommended by the North 120 group as the long-term level.

594
00:48:11,900 --> 00:48:20,580
The Hay Gulch Citizen Advisory Panel, CAP, as it's known, recommends 144 as the long-term max.

595
00:48:22,380 --> 00:48:28,340
GCC's 2012 proposal, as we received it originally, was for 120.

596
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:36,360
This was the original number, and this is the number that we remain at in terms of what is an appropriate long-term level of trucks.

597
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:45,040
trucks. We remain consistent with that number throughout the entire process. The road, once

598
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,780
improved, can accommodate this volume of trucks safely with respect to the road standards.

599
00:48:50,420 --> 00:48:55,440
To say that differently is, is the road, will it be engineered to accommodate the road?

600
00:48:55,720 --> 00:49:00,500
This number of trucks, and the answer is yes. The number keeps a balance of an industrial

601
00:49:00,500 --> 00:49:04,540
real use in a rural setting. Both uses have existed historically.

602
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:10,560
Two last points with respect to the 120. This is allowed once all road improvements are

603
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,940
in place, so that means issues of dust, the 90 degree corner, the narrow lines of sight

604
00:49:15,460 --> 00:49:20,560
have all been resolved. And the 120 must be considered in the context of all mitigation

605
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:25,580
measures. I've touched upon them before, but I'll just recap. No hauling on Sundays,

606
00:49:25,580 --> 00:49:30,080
20% daily limit, 8% of the trucks during 6 a.m. to 10 p.m.

607
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:32,560
The noise limitation of 86 decibels.

608
00:49:33,140 --> 00:49:38,220
Speed limit of 25 and 35 on the respective surface of gravel and pavement.

609
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:42,400
10 mile an hour at residences where there is currently gravel.

610
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:44,740
Engine mufflering on all vehicles.

611
00:49:45,420 --> 00:49:48,080
A direct dial phone number for unsafe driving.

612
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:49,580
It's posted on the back of...

613
00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:54,040
All vehicle numbers are posted on the back to allow there to be easy reporting.

614
00:49:54,840 --> 00:50:01,060
There is continued dust suppression, and there are other improvements that will be made through

615
00:50:01,060 --> 00:50:07,580
the course of the phased road improvements, as I mentioned, no stopping along the roadway

616
00:50:07,580 --> 00:50:12,610
to ensure conflict between.

617
00:50:14,090 --> 00:50:18,750
Given the compatibility standards, this is what the planning staff determines to be

618
00:50:18,750 --> 00:50:20,210
an appropriate maximum level of trucks.

619
00:50:21,950 --> 00:50:25,570
So now, why is 80 so important?

620
00:50:26,410 --> 00:50:27,530
This is the lower number.

621
00:50:28,410 --> 00:50:32,970
This number is lower than both the 2015 and GCC's 2016 levels.

622
00:50:33,550 --> 00:50:36,290
So it does represent a scaling back of existing operations.

623
00:50:37,050 --> 00:50:43,670
Keep in mind, even as of March, early March, GCC was adamant that the number should be 100.

624
00:50:44,370 --> 00:50:47,810
The county did not agree and that was the basis of our denial of time.

625
00:50:47,810 --> 00:50:54,250
time. Holding at 80 until phases 1, 2, and 3 are complete, as I said, addresses 7 out

626
00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:58,950
of 8 constrained areas on the road. That is the 90-degree corner. That's pavement at

627
00:50:58,950 --> 00:51:05,630
3 residences, Wilte's Barn, and the Narrows, 2 blind corners. All of this combined with

628
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:13,850
mitigation measures I just mentioned. The county arrived at 80 trucks as a baseline

629
00:51:13,850 --> 00:51:19,770
from 2013. This is the point that we recommend the project return to until

630
00:51:19,770 --> 00:51:24,870
the phases one two and three are complete. This is derived at based upon the

631
00:51:24,870 --> 00:51:30,050
planning process itself. In 2014 the planning process changed significantly.

632
00:51:31,290 --> 00:51:34,470
This is evident by the level of public engagement which ensued.

633
00:51:36,570 --> 00:51:37,230
During the

634
00:51:37,230 --> 00:51:42,370
course of dialogue it was expressed that a year ago was tolerable. Therefore the

635
00:51:42,370 --> 00:51:49,170
The logical baseline is the period before 2014 to return to 2013 where there are approximately

636
00:51:49,170 --> 00:51:52,030
80 trucks and use that as the baseline.

637
00:51:53,190 --> 00:51:58,150
Looking at this a different way, let's compare 80 to 55 as proposed by others.

638
00:51:58,990 --> 00:52:02,330
I would like to offer that 55 also correlates to a point in time.

639
00:52:02,630 --> 00:52:04,870
It's no different than our identification of a point in time.

640
00:52:05,370 --> 00:52:10,770
We've identified 80, which is 2013, based on what the record shows occurred in 2014.

641
00:52:10,770 --> 00:52:15,490
This is very clearly in 2014 a change in the planning process.

642
00:52:16,110 --> 00:52:20,030
It's arguably where the scales of compatibility tipped.

643
00:52:20,850 --> 00:52:24,270
The county recommends going back to the level before that change occurred.

644
00:52:26,590 --> 00:52:28,250
This has been a four year planning process.

645
00:52:29,330 --> 00:52:32,330
The past two years are quite different than the first two years.

646
00:52:32,790 --> 00:52:38,230
That distinction, that change that occurred in 2014 has informed our recommendation

647
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:41,750
and that is why we recommend the baseline of 2013.

648
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,580
The second component of the 80 is analysis of safety.

649
00:52:49,260 --> 00:52:52,220
The Public Works Director has concluded the road is safe at this level,

650
00:52:52,580 --> 00:52:54,200
but the mitigation measure is in place.

651
00:52:55,060 --> 00:52:58,380
This is a memo, attachment number 58 in your packet.

652
00:52:59,580 --> 00:53:04,860
The county and the public, via their consultant, are also evaluating the same data we are.

653
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,820
We're looking at the same substandard road,

654
00:53:07,820 --> 00:53:12,980
analyzing the same accident data the result is two differing interpretations of

655
00:53:12,980 --> 00:53:20,040
that data. The same factual basis exists for 80 as it does 55. Once we've

656
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:25,740
established the 120 and the 80, it's actually just a very logical middle point

657
00:53:25,740 --> 00:53:30,220
for the 100. There's actually not much more science to the 100 than that. It is

658
00:53:30,220 --> 00:53:36,180
the point in between the phases and it's a point at which GCC can increase

659
00:53:36,180 --> 00:53:38,520
trucks proportionate to road improvements.

660
00:53:40,900 --> 00:53:42,360
So keep in mind GCC does

661
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,160
control the timing of these road improvements and if they want to advance

662
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:50,540
a phase, they can achieve that through expediting road improvements. In

663
00:53:50,540 --> 00:53:54,780
conclusion, the road improvement agreement now includes GCC's agreement

664
00:53:54,780 --> 00:54:00,000
to these limits that correspond with phased road improvements. The project

665
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:02,880
is considered to meet the standards for compatibility, not

666
00:54:04,990 --> 00:54:05,510
concluding.

667
00:54:08,130 --> 00:54:08,550
Getting

668
00:54:08,550 --> 00:54:09,110
Going close though.

669
00:54:09,370 --> 00:54:14,950
So what I'm going to do actually is wrap up the last two slides talking about areas of

670
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:15,350
concern.

671
00:54:15,630 --> 00:54:18,570
These are areas I suspect that we're going to revisit during the course of this hearing.

672
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:21,690
And the first one being final road design.

673
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:26,810
What we have in the file in your packet is a conceptual level of plans.

674
00:54:27,670 --> 00:54:31,490
The county engineer has determined that the road is feasible and that is that it

675
00:54:31,490 --> 00:54:31,950
can be built.

676
00:54:32,730 --> 00:54:38,550
The county does not recommend waiting six months or more to develop preliminary plans

677
00:54:38,550 --> 00:54:42,510
or go out and secure a right of way for the entire 6.4 mile length of road.

678
00:54:43,770 --> 00:54:48,610
Our recommendation is due to the fact that the mine is existing, the county, the public

679
00:54:48,610 --> 00:54:53,610
and GCC are all better served if there is a land use permit in place in which we can

680
00:54:53,610 --> 00:54:54,470
regulate this use.

681
00:54:54,970 --> 00:54:56,470
That is what we are missing at this time.

682
00:55:01,150 --> 00:55:05,250
The second area

683
00:55:09,660 --> 00:55:12,280
of concern would be the use of condemnation for right-of-way.

684
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:14,540
There are several points to make.

685
00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:17,240
First is that this is the last option.

686
00:55:18,540 --> 00:55:24,240
Once good faith negotiations are unsuccessful, then right-of-way condemnation comes into

687
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:24,500
play.

688
00:55:34,620 --> 00:55:37,620
Second, the RIA captures compliance with the Uniform Act.

689
00:55:38,020 --> 00:55:39,940
It requires compliance with the Uniform Act.

690
00:55:39,940 --> 00:55:42,280
which is above and beyond the county's code.

691
00:55:43,140 --> 00:55:44,460
This will be substantial,

692
00:55:44,900 --> 00:55:46,360
there will be substantial discussions

693
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:47,160
with the property owners

694
00:55:47,620 --> 00:55:50,740
and we are providing the highest level of support

695
00:55:50,740 --> 00:55:52,920
for property owners through the application

696
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:53,880
of the Uniform Act.

697
00:55:54,820 --> 00:55:58,060
The Uniform Act ensures that due process rights

698
00:55:58,060 --> 00:55:58,720
are protected.

699
00:55:59,420 --> 00:56:04,560
Third, we, the county, planning, staff and public works

700
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,380
do not take condemnation lightly.

701
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:08,800
The county has only used condemnation

702
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,340
once in the last 20 years, but when you have a project that must make road improvements

703
00:56:13,340 --> 00:56:18,020
in order to satisfy the code, you have to ensure there is a mechanism to achieve the

704
00:56:18,020 --> 00:56:19,000
necessary right-of-way.

705
00:56:20,260 --> 00:56:24,620
To put it differently, without the option for condemnation, there's no way to guarantee

706
00:56:24,620 --> 00:56:28,180
the road can be built to county standards, and therefore they would not be in compliance

707
00:56:28,180 --> 00:56:28,820
with their language.

708
00:56:31,470 --> 00:56:32,970
Moving on, the buffering design.

709
00:56:33,750 --> 00:56:39,630
As I mentioned, the engineering reports documents the merit of buffering along

710
00:56:39,630 --> 00:56:42,970
Along the road, this is available to landowners immediately.

711
00:56:44,290 --> 00:56:49,270
Provided there is a land use permit, GCC is prepared to work with landowners with their

712
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:51,830
consent to introduce these buffering improvements.

713
00:56:52,670 --> 00:56:56,050
The design will be based upon professional engineering as well as landscape architect

714
00:56:56,050 --> 00:56:56,710
recommendations.

715
00:56:57,510 --> 00:57:01,210
We're not trying to shift the burden to the landowner in terms of what the final

716
00:57:01,210 --> 00:57:01,950
design should be.

717
00:57:02,810 --> 00:57:07,330
Determining the adequacy of mitigation measures is a key function of the planning department.

718
00:57:07,330 --> 00:57:13,270
And since the Planning Commission in April, we've actually introduced a new condition,

719
00:57:13,830 --> 00:57:21,070
number 22, that allows the county to retain a third party, so not GCC and not the county,

720
00:57:21,210 --> 00:57:27,790
but a third party to comment on the adequacy and efficacy of the buffering plan that would

721
00:57:27,790 --> 00:57:28,950
be at GCC's expense.

722
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:38,060
Second, or fourth, I should say, looking at routing traffic to the south.

723
00:57:38,060 --> 00:57:42,480
This has been analyzed both in a short and long-term perspective.

724
00:57:43,380 --> 00:57:49,680
GCC is going to speak to the analysis of all the options of which the southern roads were analyzed.

725
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:52,140
The county has also analyzed that option.

726
00:57:52,940 --> 00:57:57,540
And we've concluded that the southern route is not the preferred long-term or even short-term option.

727
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:01,040
This is due to the density of affected residences.

728
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:07,220
there are roughly 20 driveways along the northern route, 70 driveways along the

729
00:58:07,220 --> 00:58:11,120
southern route. If you were to choose a loop route now you're impacting 90

730
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:16,140
driveways. There are also five intersections on the southern road. There

731
00:58:16,140 --> 00:58:20,540
are no intersections on County Road 120 north. There's an even steeper grade

732
00:58:20,540 --> 00:58:25,580
than the hill at which has already been granted of variance. And the

733
00:58:25,580 --> 00:58:28,800
southern route is a school bus route. Combined with fire department

734
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:33,920
comments our recommendation and conclusion is that the southern route is

735
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:39,800
not advantageous in the northern route is preferred. If there's consideration to

736
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:44,280
do this in a short term we've also analyzed it and come to the same

737
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:49,980
conclusion it's not desired for coal trucks but we have introduced a new

738
00:58:49,980 --> 00:58:54,660
condition since the Planning Commission that would require employees to be

739
00:58:54,660 --> 00:59:00,540
to the south during construction. So it does remove some of the traffic loading on the

740
00:59:00,540 --> 00:59:05,560
road during the construction phases. There is a certain fairness to sending

741
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:10,800
trucks to the south that is acknowledged, but the concept of concentrating impacts is

742
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:15,240
an established planning principle, one that's also embedded in our land use code international

743
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:22,560
gas regulations. For example, when drilling, it is required to concentrate up to four

744
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:27,400
wells per section, rather than disperse them and build different roads and disperse the

745
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:32,840
impacts. The rationale being when you concentrate impacts, you can also have concentrated improvements.

746
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:42,700
Moving on, construction impacts. There will be impacts during construction. It is anticipated

747
00:59:42,700 --> 00:59:47,040
that there will be coal hauling as well as road construction occurring at the same time.

748
00:59:47,940 --> 00:59:53,040
This has to be managed. We're open to ideas on how to do that, such as routing

749
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:59,960
employees to the south. There will be and there is a condition for the construction traffic control.

750
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,380
All plans to be approved by the Public Works Director to ensure that the most is being done.

751
01:00:05,940 --> 01:00:12,740
Second to last item is discussion of King 1 and its disposal of rock from King 2. The question

752
01:00:12,740 --> 01:00:19,600
is, why are we not considering King 1? The land use code permits are specific to a location.

753
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:25,860
It is very clear. King 1 is a separate land use permit regardless. This permitting process

754
01:00:25,860 --> 01:00:30,040
for KING-2 is not intended to address waste material on another piece of property.

755
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,820
Doing so would be inconsistent with the land use code, and it is beyond our current scope.

756
01:00:35,940 --> 01:00:41,960
That said, we put forth a finding that clearly clarifies that KING-1 is not part of KING-2,

757
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:43,300
this land use permit.

758
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:49,760
There's also a proposed condition that requires GCC to report the nature of what

759
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:53,960
is occurring at the KING-1 site, I'm sorry, yes, KING-1 site.

760
01:00:55,100 --> 01:01:05,160
The ability for a cease and desist order or establishment of a deadline to submit this forthcoming Class II land use permit for King I, it all exists.

761
01:01:05,540 --> 01:01:13,720
We do not need to condition that. That is a code enforcement action. We have all the ability to address that concern through a separate land use permit.

762
01:01:14,660 --> 01:01:22,620
The concerns about toxicity and water quality monitoring, we're not minimizing any of that, but we are recognizing that needs to be addressed in a different land use permit.

763
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,380
with a corresponding public process.

764
01:01:26,860 --> 01:01:29,060
And lastly, the emergency response plan.

765
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:32,480
I would actually offer to you that since the planning commission

766
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,460
and since the publication of the staff report,

767
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,620
we have a new condition, an additional condition, number 29,

768
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:44,380
in which the parties, GCC, the county, and our EMS entities,

769
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:46,820
as well as the public, convene a meeting

770
01:01:46,820 --> 01:01:49,340
to discuss the emergency response plan.

771
01:01:49,340 --> 01:01:55,940
This was one of the seven items that has been revised since the Planning Commission,

772
01:01:56,100 --> 01:01:57,760
however, not to the satisfaction of the public.

773
01:01:58,380 --> 01:02:01,000
And so we have introduced, if the Board so chooses,

774
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:05,220
we can put forth a new mission that requires the parties to convene a meeting

775
01:02:05,220 --> 01:02:07,600
and continue to refine their emergency response plan.

776
01:02:15,030 --> 01:02:15,910
Now I will conclude.

777
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:21,100
Compliance with the land use code is both quantitative and qualitative.

778
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,820
On one hand, you have prescribed standards, for example, the road.

779
01:02:26,900 --> 01:02:31,200
XADT equals X standards, and this proposal meets those specifications.

780
01:02:32,260 --> 01:02:37,200
We also have qualitative standards in evaluating if a use is considered to be compatible.

781
01:02:38,020 --> 01:02:42,220
In this case, the main question is what is an appropriate number of trucks?

782
01:02:43,020 --> 01:02:43,980
This is not prescribed.

783
01:02:44,340 --> 01:02:47,180
If it were easy enough for an engineer to look at our code and say,

784
01:02:47,180 --> 01:02:50,240
this number of trucks, this is what you should do.

785
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:52,300
That's not how it works.

786
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,000
We know what standard to build the road.

787
01:02:54,000 --> 01:03:00,340
However, the planning process has vetted what we feel is the appropriate number of trucks.

788
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,960
This process has unfolded over the last four years, inclusive of today.

789
01:03:06,340 --> 01:03:11,060
In March of this year, there was no agreement on the terms of the RRA due to differences

790
01:03:11,060 --> 01:03:14,360
on those truck limits and the absence of date-specific road improvements.

791
01:03:15,140 --> 01:03:17,480
At that time, the county was compelled to recommend denial.

792
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,340
Now having achieved agreement on date-specific road improvements, the corresponding truck

793
01:03:22,340 --> 01:03:26,720
limits and the host of mitigation measures, the project has been determined to be compliant

794
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:31,240
with the county code. That was the basis of the planning commission's recommendations

795
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:36,300
for approval. And similarly, that was the basis of the planning commission's recommendation

796
01:03:36,300 --> 01:03:41,320
for approval. And similarly, we recommend the Board also approve the project based

797
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:43,260
upon the findings and conditions in the staff report.

798
01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:46,890
That concludes my presentation.

799
01:03:46,890 --> 01:03:47,370
I

800
01:03:50,090 --> 01:03:50,510
have a

801
01:03:53,290 --> 01:03:55,530
question for you, Mr. Murray.

802
01:03:55,990 --> 01:04:04,630
With the staff like the, we've established the record, but we typically have a, you typically

803
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:09,310
request that, have we adequately established a record for your findings and conditions?

804
01:04:10,890 --> 01:04:14,070
Do you feel the need to put the stuff before we bring materials on?

805
01:04:14,990 --> 01:04:17,370
Well, I believe we did that at the beginning, yes.

806
01:04:17,370 --> 01:04:17,850
I

807
01:04:21,530 --> 01:04:23,930
suspect a lot of these questions and

808
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:34,040
I can scroll through any of these slides if it helps.

809
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:36,800
Thank you, Ms. Murray.

810
01:04:40,110 --> 01:04:42,050
Questions for staff?

811
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:49,090
I'll jump in there.

812
01:04:51,780 --> 01:04:52,780
I've got a lot of questions.

813
01:04:54,020 --> 01:05:03,700
Some are clarifications, some you've answered, but some of these will be pretty focused.

814
01:05:03,700 --> 01:05:11,880
But your staff report talks about GCC agreeing to monitor subsidence, though that's not required.

815
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:14,080
Is that true?

816
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,000
It's correct, Daniel Murray for the record.

817
01:05:18,160 --> 01:05:21,920
It's being addressed in two ways when it comes to monitoring.

818
01:05:23,140 --> 01:05:29,560
And that is through the groundwater levels, which was a recommendation of one of our consultants.

819
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:38,180
so groundwater levels of the TR-26 I mentioned will be reported, and it will also be a compliance

820
01:05:38,180 --> 01:05:43,360
with the CDRMS regulations for surveyed monuments.

821
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:50,200
What is included is essentially a blanket condition in which GCC needs to comply with

822
01:05:50,200 --> 01:05:55,600
CDRMS regulations at a greater distance to ensure that subsidence doesn't occur

823
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,000
as a due to the result of the mining.

824
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:06,940
And so the GCC is not required to do it under DRMS requirements,

825
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:10,240
but for purposes of compatibility and mitigating impacts,

826
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,020
that's with the 1,000 feet.

827
01:06:14,660 --> 01:06:18,320
The 1,000 feet was introduced by the Vista de Oro subdivision.

828
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,640
CDRMS requires only a 300-foot distance,

829
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:25,580
And GCC can speak to the subtleties of this.

830
01:06:26,460 --> 01:06:28,400
That's measured horizontally.

831
01:06:29,340 --> 01:06:32,140
When mining activity occurs below ground,

832
01:06:32,540 --> 01:06:35,960
ultimately, it often resulted at a 600-foot distance

833
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,380
because it occurs diagonally.

834
01:06:39,140 --> 01:06:42,100
So 600 feet would have been one initial threshold.

835
01:06:42,540 --> 01:06:46,260
GCC has agreed to honor the same 6,000-foot recommendation

836
01:06:46,260 --> 01:06:50,180
of the Vista de Oro Group to apply CDRMS standards

837
01:06:50,180 --> 01:06:52,360
to that much higher of a setback distance.

838
01:06:53,100 --> 01:07:00,970
Okay, then I guess I'll ask the county attorney to help me make this record correct,

839
01:07:01,310 --> 01:07:05,810
but I want to make sure that it's clear that 1,000 feet is tied to compatibility

840
01:07:07,550 --> 01:07:10,310
and it's not voluntarily being done by GCC.

841
01:07:11,770 --> 01:07:13,330
I'm Smith, County Attorney's Office.

842
01:07:13,650 --> 01:07:20,190
That is correct because of compatibility concerns where basically piggybacking CDRMS regulations

843
01:07:20,190 --> 01:07:27,710
applying those regulations to dwelling units all the way out to 1,000 feet instead of CDRMS's lower standard.

844
01:07:28,570 --> 01:07:31,750
Thank you. I want to talk about noise a little bit.

845
01:07:32,850 --> 01:07:40,070
We certainly got different types of noise information in the reports and different recommended standards.

846
01:07:40,510 --> 01:07:47,650
It sounds like from the county's perspective, 86 decibels 50 feet from the road is the one we're operating off of.

847
01:07:48,170 --> 01:07:48,850
Is that correct?

848
01:07:48,850 --> 01:07:52,030
That is the condition in recommended condition.

849
01:07:52,530 --> 01:07:55,570
So from a compatibility standpoint, 86 decibels,

850
01:07:55,650 --> 01:07:59,350
my understanding is when you're not being injured by the sound,

851
01:07:59,550 --> 01:08:04,510
is that fair or is there a sound person I should hold off on this question with?

852
01:08:05,050 --> 01:08:05,890
It certainly is.

853
01:08:06,950 --> 01:08:08,310
And so what we go ahead.

854
01:08:08,430 --> 01:08:09,510
I'll go ahead and hit.

855
01:08:09,790 --> 01:08:11,430
I'll tell you what my concern is.

856
01:08:12,030 --> 01:08:16,810
If 86 decibels is the measure from when damage occurs,

857
01:08:16,810 --> 01:08:21,330
I don't think that's the right measure for someone's home.

858
01:08:22,990 --> 01:08:26,810
So there are other things, the HUD standard of 50 decibels,

859
01:08:27,150 --> 01:08:30,870
and there are things about average daytime averages

860
01:08:30,870 --> 01:08:33,150
and all these things that are way outside of my league.

861
01:08:33,550 --> 01:08:41,070
But just from my own observations and kind of looking at comparative scales

862
01:08:41,070 --> 01:08:47,530
of noise and so on, I can't imagine the 86 is the definition of compatible.

863
01:08:48,470 --> 01:09:00,950
So I'm interested down the line to hearing from people about that issue as what level of decibels is compatible for residential exposure.

864
01:09:01,670 --> 01:09:06,390
Similarly on the buffering plan, this is a more general question,

865
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:11,430
but both the buffering and the dust and maybe other things had to do with modeling.

866
01:09:12,570 --> 01:09:15,550
And what happens if the modeling wasn't right?

867
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:23,330
We put in place conditions that say, hey, if you do this type of buffering, you have complied.

868
01:09:23,510 --> 01:09:27,530
But in the end, it seemed to me, reading the different reports that buffering,

869
01:09:27,530 --> 01:09:48,920
There's some variation or some range of error, so to speak, in predicting what the buffering would do or what the dust mitigation, how it would occur.

870
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,200
So what happens if we miss?

871
01:09:51,140 --> 01:09:55,100
And it turns out that, gosh, we thought this would work, but it didn't.

872
01:09:56,620 --> 01:10:02,740
Commissioner Damien Padudo, I just wanted to reference that, number one, the applicant's

873
01:10:02,740 --> 01:10:09,960
professional wave engineering, which performed a thorough analysis on this, will be communicating

874
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:14,880
I'm presuming for the applicant, but the county also hired a professional to evaluate

875
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,940
that study and those models.

876
01:10:18,180 --> 01:10:26,480
Amoni Martin was the county's professional whom we hired specialist and that report is

877
01:10:26,480 --> 01:10:30,220
also connected and they concurred with the wave engineering report analysis.

878
01:10:31,080 --> 01:10:37,020
And I hope, I know that doesn't directly answer all the details of your question, but it

879
01:10:37,020 --> 01:10:39,900
should address the modeling concern.

880
01:10:40,980 --> 01:10:41,660
Okay.

881
01:11:07,430 --> 01:11:08,030
All

882
01:11:11,900 --> 01:11:12,980
right, thank you,

883
01:11:18,250 --> 01:11:21,530
and has everything been done with respect to the there were some outstanding

884
01:11:21,530 --> 01:11:29,670
issues that GCC was required to do between the planning commission meeting and our meeting

885
01:11:29,670 --> 01:11:31,310
today have all of those been done?

886
01:11:34,140 --> 01:11:34,800
Mike is working.

887
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:40,140
So there were seven conditions that the applicant needed to satisfy before the board today

888
01:11:40,820 --> 01:11:44,680
And yes, those items have been reviewed and determined to be compliant.

889
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:51,000
Nevertheless, three items, which I'll explain, still carry over as conditions.

890
01:11:51,780 --> 01:11:56,620
For example, we introduced the third-party consultant option for the buffering wall.

891
01:11:57,080 --> 01:12:01,460
That was a new development from one of those prior to BOCCs.

892
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:06,320
The emergency response plan, I mentioned there's a new condition there.

893
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,480
So although we received information on the emergency response plan,

894
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,900
it didn't satisfy entirely the public concerns, and so that one carried over.

895
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,300
And then another example is San Juan Basin Health.

896
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:24,020
They have provided an update as to the status of how they're improving their wastewater treatment,

897
01:12:24,740 --> 01:12:29,920
but there's also a condition that carries over that they need to continue to be in compliance with San Juan Basin Health Standards.

898
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:44,120
Is there general condition that it might have been stuck in different places, but they be compliant with all their permits, whether it's DRMS or with BLM or other regulatory bodies?

899
01:12:46,990 --> 01:12:59,810
I'm Smith County Attorney's Office. No, there is not a condition that is requiring compliance with the hierarchy, the other layers of permits that the GCC is required to obtain.

900
01:12:59,810 --> 01:13:03,990
We are trusting those other agencies to enforce and determine

901
01:13:03,990 --> 01:13:06,930
when GCC may or may not be in compliance with their own permits.

902
01:13:08,630 --> 01:13:12,510
Okay. That might be a point of discussion later.

903
01:13:12,750 --> 01:13:16,090
There are other situations where we make a condition of compliance

904
01:13:16,090 --> 01:13:18,950
in our permit, one of compliance with other jurisdictions.

905
01:13:19,730 --> 01:13:21,670
We do it right now with San Juan Basin Health.

906
01:13:22,190 --> 01:13:26,310
As Daniel just said, we also require with respect to marijuana

907
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:32,990
because we know that other agencies may not take action as quickly as we would like.

908
01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:39,110
So just a heads up that that's something that I've assumed we had in there

909
01:13:39,110 --> 01:13:44,850
and be prepared to address that coming back again.

910
01:13:53,950 --> 01:13:58,790
Are we going to hear from the Fort Lewis Mesa Fire District?

911
01:13:59,890 --> 01:14:06,210
or how's that going to – you indicated that there was not agreement on the emergency response plan,

912
01:14:06,330 --> 01:14:10,850
and I'm trying to figure out is there agreement between the fire districts and GCC

913
01:14:10,850 --> 01:14:14,590
and the county on the emergency response plan?

914
01:14:15,710 --> 01:14:19,650
There will be an opportunity for the fire department to speak during public comment.

915
01:14:20,190 --> 01:14:20,770
Okay.

916
01:14:20,970 --> 01:14:22,490
And that can be addressed.

917
01:14:23,230 --> 01:14:29,030
So my understanding is, yes, GCC consulted with, at the direction of the Planning Commission,

918
01:14:30,250 --> 01:14:37,090
DFRA, Port Lewis Fire, as well as the County Emergency Butch, essentially.

919
01:14:38,530 --> 01:14:43,630
And all of those parties were found to be, their concerns, satisfied.

920
01:14:44,350 --> 01:14:48,330
Nevertheless, the public did not feel that that revised document was satisfactory.

921
01:14:48,330 --> 01:14:56,990
So that is the nature of the additional condition to convene a meeting and include the public in the discussion to resolve the matter.

922
01:15:01,390 --> 01:15:02,770
From our perspective,

923
01:15:04,810 --> 01:15:09,570
one of the conditions is that GCC will have a website with traffic

924
01:15:09,570 --> 01:15:16,810
numbers, logs, et cetera on it. Are we anticipating actively monitoring that, or how is that anticipated

925
01:15:16,810 --> 01:15:17,690
being used?

926
01:15:20,010 --> 01:15:25,670
That breaks into two different categories. Speed and traffic will be posted on the website

927
01:15:25,670 --> 01:15:30,390
as required in the condition, and we will monitor to those as needed. Traffic, if we don't

928
01:15:30,390 --> 01:15:36,810
feel the need for additional counts, the county has all the ability to go and lay counters

929
01:15:36,810 --> 01:15:41,910
and count traffic. So we'll always have the option to do double checking of what they're

930
01:15:41,910 --> 01:15:47,610
posting with respect to counts. Water quality, as I mentioned, will be also posted on the

931
01:15:47,610 --> 01:15:53,690
website. So we will be monitoring with respect to those three topics. Dust is one that's

932
01:15:53,690 --> 01:15:58,890
not required to be formally monitored. As I mentioned, it's one that is best just

933
01:15:58,890 --> 01:16:07,110
mitigated from the onset through paving, but that is a condition that allows there to be

934
01:16:07,110 --> 01:16:12,210
some enforceability if dust is too high, and that's based off a visual test. It might

935
01:16:12,210 --> 01:16:18,130
seem low-tech, but sometimes those are the best solutions. The photographing and observation

936
01:16:18,130 --> 01:16:24,270
of dust higher than a wheel well constitutes violation of the condition, and it will be

937
01:16:24,270 --> 01:16:28,310
something that GCC would need to remedy in order to remain in compliance with the code

938
01:16:29,010 --> 01:16:34,530
and their land use permit. And the other one is noise. There's not currently a requirement

939
01:16:34,530 --> 01:16:39,150
for monitoring or posting results for noise. That could be something that we return to.

940
01:16:39,290 --> 01:16:42,830
It sounds like a topic of discussion once we've heard from all the parties.

941
01:16:46,050 --> 01:16:51,930
Okay. I have a couple of questions for Mr. Davis if I could. Jim, excuse me, Mr.

942
01:16:52,750 --> 01:16:59,310
There's going to be at least, I think, up by the Hunziger property under the proposed temporary paving.

943
01:17:00,830 --> 01:17:08,370
There will be some point where traffic will be moving from gravel onto pavement,

944
01:17:08,970 --> 01:17:18,550
and the track on of mud that creates dust and so on, will the pavement occur far enough west

945
01:17:20,090 --> 01:17:24,550
that track-on of mud won't be an issue for that particular residence?

946
01:17:28,250 --> 01:17:29,670
That's a reasonable question.

947
01:17:29,890 --> 01:17:34,850
I think for the most part the end of the pavement will be far enough to where it will mitigate most of that,

948
01:17:34,910 --> 01:17:40,030
but I mean it's inevitable that you do get from side driveways and on all of our paved roads

949
01:17:40,030 --> 01:17:47,050
you do on occasion get some tracking of dirt, mud on vehicle wheels from side roads.

950
01:17:47,050 --> 01:17:53,990
So, excuse me, to think you're going to eliminate 100% of the dust, paving any road is not realistic.

951
01:17:54,970 --> 01:18:03,390
But we will consider an adequate section beyond the home to ensure that the track on mud will be minimized.

952
01:18:03,950 --> 01:18:08,250
That is correct. I'll hope to minimize that to the extent possible.

953
01:18:08,650 --> 01:18:14,750
And how do we come up with 12 cents per ton on the maintenance fee?

954
01:18:15,470 --> 01:18:21,030
That was based on the current cost and the long-term cost of maintenance, future chip

955
01:18:21,030 --> 01:18:22,650
seals, future overlays.

956
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:25,250
The road will initially be designed.

957
01:18:25,510 --> 01:18:31,330
The pavement life will be a 20-year life, but typically to maintain that, you come in

958
01:18:31,330 --> 01:18:34,130
and do interim maintenance on any paved road.

959
01:18:34,290 --> 01:18:36,850
So that was the basis for that fee.

960
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:44,090
And my understanding is reading the road agreement is that there is an escalator

961
01:18:44,090 --> 01:18:49,210
built into that to address inflation type things.

962
01:18:49,730 --> 01:18:50,270
That is correct.

963
01:18:52,650 --> 01:18:52,890
All right.

964
01:18:53,030 --> 01:18:58,530
And then lastly, with respect to the right of way acquisition and actually the route of

965
01:18:58,530 --> 01:19:03,190
the road, do we have some conceptual plans of where the road will go?

966
01:19:03,990 --> 01:19:04,370
Is that correct?

967
01:19:04,790 --> 01:19:05,330
That is correct.

968
01:19:05,850 --> 01:19:12,090
And then, you know, I think I'll ask, is there going to be a road person testifying

969
01:19:12,090 --> 01:19:12,450
later?

970
01:19:12,710 --> 01:19:14,630
I'll save the other question for the road person.

971
01:19:14,630 --> 01:19:15,470
Thank you.

972
01:19:15,690 --> 01:19:16,890
I'm going to wrap it up.

973
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:24,920
Mr. Chair, I have a few questions.

974
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,540
Thank you, Mr. Murray, for your presentation.

975
01:19:30,340 --> 01:19:34,780
My question, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the number of trucks.

976
01:19:35,480 --> 01:19:44,860
I'd like to talk a bit about the timing of the truck traffic in the negotiations with GCC.

977
01:19:45,600 --> 01:19:52,680
Was there discussion about further limiting the hauling hours from 6 to 10?

978
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:57,780
And is it currently 24 hours a day hauling?

979
01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:00,920
Yes, except for Sundays, Daniel Murray planning.

980
01:20:01,940 --> 01:20:09,440
There is a graphic that shows the breakdown of a day, so that will be presented if you'd like by the GCC.

981
01:20:09,440 --> 01:20:15,320
and the 6 to 10 was a recommendation that came from the citizen advisory panel,

982
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:20,100
so that's where we incorporated that compatibility mitigation measure.

983
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:28,020
Was there discussion about avoiding school bus hours in the morning or afternoon?

984
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:38,740
Generally, and there is a school bus stop at North 120 and 140. It's not a bus route.

985
01:20:40,780 --> 01:20:45,680
And that specific item, I can't recollect if it came up.

986
01:20:45,940 --> 01:20:54,480
It could be something that when we look at the breakdown of how trucks typically run during the day,

987
01:20:54,660 --> 01:20:58,120
may naturally address the concern.

988
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:06,060
But let's return to that if there's the need to adjust or create some specificity on avoiding school drop-off times.

989
01:21:06,060 --> 01:21:07,980
Thank you.

990
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:15,020
Just going to look through my notes and list of questions.

991
01:21:18,990 --> 01:21:20,350
Regarding Commissioner

992
01:21:20,350 --> 01:21:28,850
Westendorf's line of questioning on subsidence, have there been any documented incidents of

993
01:21:28,850 --> 01:21:31,510
subsidence occurring in this area?

994
01:21:32,430 --> 01:21:35,430
I'd like to defer to GCC on that. I don't want to misspeak.

995
01:21:35,430 --> 01:21:42,910
Do we know if there is any, are there any coal mine operations under private service,

996
01:21:45,610 --> 01:21:46,650
presently?

997
01:21:47,370 --> 01:21:50,830
It's all BLM lease area.

998
01:21:51,130 --> 01:21:53,190
But again, let's defer to GCC on the specifics.

999
01:21:53,770 --> 01:21:54,050
Okay.

1000
01:21:58,150 --> 01:21:59,450
There are tribal lands.

1001
01:21:59,750 --> 01:22:03,330
Let's let GCC clarify the composition of coal.

1002
01:22:04,050 --> 01:22:04,950
Thank you.

1003
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:16,860
Regarding your statement about condemnation necessary for building

1004
01:22:19,650 --> 01:22:21,030
the road ultimately

1005
01:22:21,030 --> 01:22:22,450
to county standards,

1006
01:22:26,260 --> 01:22:31,120
can you give specific examples of what condemnation proceedings

1007
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:32,000
would be necessary?

1008
01:22:37,940 --> 01:22:43,740
I believe Jim Davis, Director of Public Works, so that goes to the Uniform Act, which

1009
01:22:43,740 --> 01:22:49,340
federal guidelines for the acquisition of public property or property for public projects.

1010
01:22:50,480 --> 01:22:54,580
You know, above and beyond that, the county public works on any road project.

1011
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:59,820
We typically reach out to the adjacent property owners that are impacted with any construction

1012
01:22:59,820 --> 01:23:00,960
project like this.

1013
01:23:01,660 --> 01:23:06,480
So I guess to minimize the potential that we get into that position, we start early

1014
01:23:06,480 --> 01:23:11,520
on in the process within reason to see what we can do to mitigate those impacts as

1015
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:16,760
it relates to the alignment of the road, the acquisition of the land, all of those issues.

1016
01:23:18,060 --> 01:23:25,680
And then through the Uniform Act there is an initial value finding, potentially a dual

1017
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:28,900
appraisal process, and then negotiations from there.

1018
01:23:29,020 --> 01:23:33,700
You can look at damages in some cases if that comes into the situation as well, but

1019
01:23:33,700 --> 01:23:35,360
it's a fairly extensive process.

1020
01:23:35,620 --> 01:23:39,860
And as pointed out, I've been with the county since 2001, and as long as I've

1021
01:23:39,860 --> 01:23:43,980
been here, we've never had to use condemnation of an eminent domain. I think it might have

1022
01:23:43,980 --> 01:23:49,560
been back in the late 90s on a project on the Florida road. But you know, I think a

1023
01:23:49,560 --> 01:23:53,520
lot of it goes to the process and we do our best to the extent possible to work with

1024
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:54,620
the adjacent property owners.

1025
01:23:55,480 --> 01:23:59,060
Okay. So for the record, we don't have specific examples today.

1026
01:24:00,140 --> 01:24:05,860
Well, I would almost defer to the county attorney to Cheryl as to that one incident

1027
01:24:05,860 --> 01:24:07,080
that was 20 years ago.

1028
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:10,960
Is that what you're looking for is one for this for this project?

1029
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:14,540
Examples of condemnation for this project

1030
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:20,180
Are you asking how many parcels or would potentially be

1031
01:24:20,940 --> 01:24:30,620
Condemned okay for road improvements. I can't recall that number Jim. We have an estimate. Don't we it kind of that the alignment isn't

1032
01:24:33,280 --> 01:24:36,120
Completely determined, but what's the estimate?

1033
01:24:39,820 --> 01:24:48,660
If you use the number of driveways as an approximation, there's roughly 20 parcels along that corridor.

1034
01:24:50,880 --> 01:24:54,380
That could potentially be condemned for the road.

1035
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:30,840
In addition to the private property owners when it comes to condemnation, there is also a ditch that may well be impacted and that some of the property involved with the expansion of the width of the road is also owned by the Ute Mountain Ute.

1036
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:39,340
And it is not owned in trust. It is a special type of ownership, which is,

1037
01:25:41,870 --> 01:25:46,490
we would still, it's like a stewardship parcel.

1038
01:25:47,370 --> 01:25:58,490
And our condemnation authority is likely limited when it comes to both the ditch company and the Ute Mountain Ute parcel.

1039
01:26:01,390 --> 01:26:02,590
Okay, thank you.

1040
01:26:03,230 --> 01:26:03,630
And...

1041
01:26:03,630 --> 01:26:04,230
Chair, if I may.

1042
01:26:04,350 --> 01:26:12,030
I'd like to chime in on this issue and note a couple of other items related to right away.

1043
01:26:12,650 --> 01:26:19,010
First, my understanding is for this project, the county is not required to follow the Uniform Act.

1044
01:26:19,070 --> 01:26:23,210
We are doing so to go above and beyond to protect the neighbor's interest.

1045
01:26:24,450 --> 01:26:31,190
It is a process-driven requirement and ensuring that we're following the Uniform Act as I

1046
01:26:31,190 --> 01:26:36,790
stated goes above and beyond and being respectful of the issues related to the road and the

1047
01:26:36,790 --> 01:26:37,650
neighbor's property rights.

1048
01:26:38,210 --> 01:26:43,930
Second, in terms of if we're able to state how many properties may or may not be condemned

1049
01:26:43,930 --> 01:26:46,930
at this time, our intent is to avoid condemnation.

1050
01:26:48,030 --> 01:26:53,910
At this point, we only have conceptual level drawings for the road, and that is specifically

1051
01:26:53,910 --> 01:26:55,350
because of the right-of-way issues.

1052
01:26:55,630 --> 01:26:57,570
This is an iterative process.

1053
01:26:58,330 --> 01:27:02,030
If our intent is to avoid condomination to negotiate right-of-way to use every other

1054
01:27:02,030 --> 01:27:06,510
mechanism other than condomination, then that certainly will have an impact on where

1055
01:27:06,510 --> 01:27:08,990
the final road alignment may go.

1056
01:27:10,390 --> 01:27:11,550
As stated, it's iterative.

1057
01:27:11,550 --> 01:27:17,490
it's a bit of a feedback loop. Once we – once GCC with the county's final approval

1058
01:27:17,490 --> 01:27:23,770
goes through the right-of-way acquisition process, if it is not feasible to obtain right-of-way

1059
01:27:23,770 --> 01:27:27,550
on one side of the road, for example, and that would force condemnation, it certainly

1060
01:27:27,550 --> 01:27:32,950
would be an opportunity to shift the road to avoid condemnation. So that's why we

1061
01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:37,970
can say with certainty how many parcels are – will be condemned at this time.

1062
01:27:38,030 --> 01:27:38,950
It's impossible to say.

1063
01:27:38,950 --> 01:27:48,860
Thank you. And Mr. Chair, one final question. This is relating to enforcement and enforcing

1064
01:27:49,510 --> 01:28:00,180
this permit. Can staff speak to how we will ensure that this permit is enforced and complied

1065
01:28:00,180 --> 01:28:00,360
with?

1066
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:02,820
I'm Smith County Attorney's Office.

1067
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:08,340
Well, code enforcement is a complaint driven process

1068
01:28:08,340 --> 01:28:14,880
And I actually like to circle back to the earlier question about county staff monitoring the website.

1069
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:24,020
Part of the reason, the primary reason for ensuring that that information is public is because code enforcement is complaint driven.

1070
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:32,320
So we certainly will be monitoring that website, but the reason it's being made public is because we anticipate very much that the public will be monitoring that website as well.

1071
01:28:33,120 --> 01:28:40,360
So this Laney's permit, if approved, will be handled just as any other in that it's a complaint driven process

1072
01:28:40,360 --> 01:28:47,260
and we will have the same tools that we have with any other Laney's permit if the conditions are not complied with.

1073
01:28:49,260 --> 01:28:55,820
I would note that the conditions are numerous, as you can see, and they've been drafted in a very particular manner

1074
01:28:55,820 --> 01:29:04,120
to try and provide clarity both for the applicant for the county and for engaged citizens to

1075
01:29:04,120 --> 01:29:09,100
aid enforcement and hopefully to avoid enforcement actions going forward.

1076
01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:14,780
So I think a significant feature that should be noted differing from a lot of other Laney's

1077
01:29:14,780 --> 01:29:17,820
permits are the number and style of those conditions.

1078
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:23,440
Last, it is I think well known at this point between the applicant and the county

1079
01:29:23,440 --> 01:29:29,040
that it is the county's intent if the terms and conditions of the Road Improvement Agreement

1080
01:29:29,040 --> 01:29:35,100
and specifically are not complied with that the county could consider bringing a contract

1081
01:29:35,100 --> 01:29:36,100
enforcement action.

1082
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:42,740
That is a unique feature that we rarely have with land use permits that violation

1083
01:29:42,740 --> 01:29:47,980
of the key elements of the land use permit are also a violation of a contract.

1084
01:29:50,390 --> 01:29:51,050
Thank you.

1085
01:29:51,650 --> 01:29:52,350
No further questions.

1086
01:29:54,430 --> 01:29:55,350
Thank you.

1087
01:29:57,030 --> 01:29:59,970
Thank you, Mr. Murray. Can you speak to-

1088
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:11,440
The water monitoring wells, the number proposed general information about the water monitoring

1089
01:30:11,440 --> 01:30:11,840
wells.

1090
01:30:14,580 --> 01:30:23,180
I can. It's captured in TR26, but I also may allow GCC's consultant to speak to that report

1091
01:30:23,180 --> 01:30:29,280
because they essentially put forth that plan to the state, and the state approves that plan.

1092
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:37,700
It's well beyond my expertise, so I'll just, if you're willing, to let me defer to their consultant.

1093
01:30:37,900 --> 01:30:40,680
And if we still have questions, we can revisit the matter.

1094
01:30:41,660 --> 01:30:47,980
I will ask them the question then. Thank you. That concludes my questions.

1095
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:58,980
Mr. Chair, if I could just for a minute go back to Commissioner Westendorf's questions about noise and just provide an explanation about the statutes.

1096
01:30:58,980 --> 01:31:04,680
There are two separate statutes on noise, one would pertain to the site itself, and there

1097
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,580
are industrial and residential standards with that.

1098
01:31:07,820 --> 01:31:17,400
And then there is a statute, which is CRS 2512106, which actually speaks to the amount

1099
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:21,140
of noise that vehicles can create on a road.

1100
01:31:21,140 --> 01:31:30,620
And a subsequent statute allows the county to adopt a resolution limiting the decibels on the road.

1101
01:31:30,820 --> 01:31:37,320
And what you see in your report are the decibels that are established by that section.

1102
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:42,480
If that helps you when you're listening to subsequent reports.

1103
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:44,040
And it's 86?

1104
01:31:44,460 --> 01:31:44,900
It is.

1105
01:31:44,900 --> 01:32:03,840
It depends on the year of the vehicle and the speed limit, but for a speed limit of 35 miles per hour or less, it's for vehicles before January 1, 1973, it's 88 decibels, and on or after January 1, 1973, it's 86.

1106
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:07,900
That applies to the vehicle itself. It doesn't apply to...

1107
01:32:10,150 --> 01:32:15,390
The section applies to the total noise from a vehicle or a combination of vehicles on a road.

1108
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,860
If I may, this is Adam Smith County Attorney's Office.

1109
01:32:22,700 --> 01:32:29,380
That statute is informing staff's recommendation the authority for the county to impose that

1110
01:32:29,380 --> 01:32:30,820
limit is derived from compatibility.

1111
01:32:31,840 --> 01:32:36,560
So the statute is providing us a data point to consider, but the authority to getting

1112
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:41,500
there is our compatibility in the Chapter 82 of the land use code.

1113
01:32:44,250 --> 01:32:45,670
You don't have to accept the 86.

1114
01:32:50,960 --> 01:32:51,400
Thank you.

1115
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:52,340
How

1116
01:32:54,710 --> 01:32:56,450
much time does the county have left?

1117
01:32:56,870 --> 01:32:58,190
Do we still have 18 minutes?

1118
01:32:58,190 --> 01:33:00,990
The county actually had 18 minutes and one second left.

1119
01:33:01,950 --> 01:33:09,130
Before questions started, would this be a time for Chief Anderson to report on the emergency response?

1120
01:33:10,050 --> 01:33:13,730
Chief, would you have anything that you'd like to add in regards to that?

1121
01:33:21,660 --> 01:33:24,420
If Chris Anderson for those Mesa Fire Protection District.

1122
01:33:25,300 --> 01:33:32,320
I did consult with the mine at their request on their emergency response plan for an event

1123
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:37,000
on the road, made some recommendations, and they incorporated them in their plan.

1124
01:33:41,090 --> 01:33:41,610
Thank you.

1125
01:33:47,070 --> 01:33:48,470
You're efficient with your time.

1126
01:33:50,990 --> 01:33:51,470
All right.

1127
01:33:51,810 --> 01:33:54,930
We are past our 10-30 break time.

1128
01:33:55,170 --> 01:34:03,050
Do we want to have a break at this point and, well, 10-35, oh, we're right at it.

1129
01:34:03,050 --> 01:34:05,790
We're going to take it after GCC made their presentation

1130
01:34:05,790 --> 01:34:07,870
about our technical difficulties.

1131
01:34:09,210 --> 01:34:13,270
My question is, do we want to take a break before GCC?

1132
01:34:14,170 --> 01:34:16,170
We will have a five-minute break.

1133
01:34:16,590 --> 01:34:17,050
Thank you.

1134
01:34:19,650 --> 01:34:20,270
Thank you.

1135
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:37,720
Thank

1136
01:43:18,290 --> 01:43:18,670
you.

1137
01:43:23,210 --> 01:43:24,770
Thank you for coming to order.

1138
01:43:25,030 --> 01:43:28,670
We'd like to go ahead and continue on with our

1139
01:43:33,950 --> 01:43:35,050
agenda.

1140
01:43:35,050 --> 01:43:37,050
And it's a little out of whack right now,

1141
01:43:41,180 --> 01:43:43,920
but presentation by GCC.

1142
01:43:50,510 --> 01:43:51,090
Thank you.

1143
01:44:20,460 --> 01:44:21,260
Testing them out.

1144
01:44:45,010 --> 01:44:49,930
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and commissioners, members of county staff, members of the public.

1145
01:44:50,170 --> 01:44:51,030
My name is Carolyn White.

1146
01:44:51,130 --> 01:44:52,650
I'm land use counsel for the applicant.

1147
01:44:55,160 --> 01:44:59,180
As we have numerous folks to present to you, if you don't mind, we'll stay seated

1148
01:44:59,180 --> 01:44:59,960
here at this table.

1149
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:03,200
As

1150
01:45:05,470 --> 01:45:12,750
you know, mining has been an integral part of the culture, economy, and lifeblood of La Plata County for decades.

1151
01:45:13,590 --> 01:45:20,430
Since the 1940s, GCC and its predecessors have employed generations of families throughout the county.

1152
01:45:21,750 --> 01:45:27,030
Here before you, we are here before you today seeking this Class II land use permit for the existing mine.

1153
01:45:27,890 --> 01:45:32,410
While this permitting process is obviously taken longer than anyone wanted or would have

1154
01:45:32,410 --> 01:45:37,750
desired or probably would have predicted when the initial application was filed, this extensive

1155
01:45:37,750 --> 01:45:42,670
process occurred because of both GCC and the county's desire to get it right.

1156
01:45:43,310 --> 01:45:47,410
And every time that a new issue or concern was raised, the additional time was taken

1157
01:45:47,410 --> 01:45:50,870
to study, analyze, and understand that concern.

1158
01:45:51,250 --> 01:45:55,450
And in response, either proposed mitigation measures, conditions of approval, or in

1159
01:45:55,450 --> 01:46:01,590
cases, change the very activity in terms of what would actually be permitted if the pending

1160
01:46:01,590 --> 01:46:03,030
permit application were approved.

1161
01:46:04,250 --> 01:46:08,990
Additionally as has been referenced, there's always been this added layer of other state,

1162
01:46:09,150 --> 01:46:13,790
federal, and local permitting that controls what happens in and at the mine.

1163
01:46:15,550 --> 01:46:20,330
This process, you should know, has forced GCC to make some very difficult decisions

1164
01:46:20,330 --> 01:46:24,710
about the very operation of the mine itself, how they conduct their business, what

1165
01:46:24,710 --> 01:46:28,550
type of business to conduct and what their production levels will be and what their business

1166
01:46:28,550 --> 01:46:29,810
will look like going forward.

1167
01:46:30,230 --> 01:46:33,970
And you'll have a little more information about that as this presentation progresses.

1168
01:46:35,110 --> 01:46:39,670
The application before you, as presented, with the conditions of approval, with the

1169
01:46:39,670 --> 01:46:43,630
mitigations that are already taking place, with the mitigations that are proposed, and

1170
01:46:43,630 --> 01:46:50,370
with the ongoing monitoring, is a successful compromise for a compatible operation.

1171
01:46:50,890 --> 01:46:57,090
This will result in a $10 million brand-new county road, a long-term maintenance fee for

1172
01:46:57,090 --> 01:47:01,170
the county's benefit for the continued upkeep of that road as long as the life of the mine

1173
01:47:01,170 --> 01:47:07,170
is for the entire life of the mine, and both short and long-term reductions in truck

1174
01:47:07,170 --> 01:47:12,190
numbers from what is there today and from what GCC would otherwise be allowed to

1175
01:47:12,190 --> 01:47:13,970
do under its state and federal permits.

1176
01:47:15,430 --> 01:47:18,950
While there are obviously still residents who have concerns, and I'm sure you'll

1177
01:47:18,950 --> 01:47:24,590
have the opportunity to hear from them today what their concerns are, GCC has achieved

1178
01:47:24,590 --> 01:47:29,390
significant consensus with the county staff recommendations and the larger community by

1179
01:47:29,390 --> 01:47:33,630
making a variety of concessions and agreeing to a number of conditions of approval restricting

1180
01:47:33,630 --> 01:47:35,850
the way that they operate this mine going forward.

1181
01:47:37,330 --> 01:47:41,270
I'd like to now introduce the rest of the team who will be presenting to you today

1182
01:47:41,270 --> 01:47:44,330
and other members of the team who are available for your questions even though

1183
01:47:44,330 --> 01:47:46,530
they may not be part of our formal presentation.

1184
01:47:46,530 --> 01:47:47,470
I

1185
01:47:51,980 --> 01:47:57,500
have with me Gina Nance, Vice President of Energy and Environment, Trent Peterson,

1186
01:47:57,740 --> 01:48:02,920
Vice President of GCC Energy, Wade Weymour, GCC Plant Superintendent.

1187
01:48:04,200 --> 01:48:07,580
We also have all of our experts who provided reports to you here.

1188
01:48:07,880 --> 01:48:11,700
That includes road engineering, traffic, water, air quality, noise, and vibration.

1189
01:48:12,660 --> 01:48:17,340
Mike Olson, seated to my far right, PE of Road Runner Engineering, who addressed

1190
01:48:17,340 --> 01:48:22,520
road design, cost, traffic impact assessment, and evaluated the alternative routes for the

1191
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:26,140
haul road. Steve Harris, P.E. of Harris Water Engineering,

1192
01:48:28,390 --> 01:48:31,030
who's behind me, Landon Beck,

1193
01:48:31,250 --> 01:48:36,610
resource hydrogeologic services who address the groundwater issues, Vanit Masaraja of

1194
01:48:36,610 --> 01:48:42,330
Trinity Consultants addressing air quality, which includes specifically dust, Jeff Kulkowski

1195
01:48:42,330 --> 01:48:47,090
with Wave Engineering who can answer your questions about noise and vibration, Rob

1196
01:48:47,090 --> 01:48:51,010
Bob Johnston, with Johnston Land Company, he is the right-away agent that was hired by

1197
01:48:51,010 --> 01:48:55,990
GCC to handle the right-away acquisition, and Joe Bowden, Ph.D., with CDS Environmental

1198
01:48:55,990 --> 01:48:57,210
Services, LLC.

1199
01:48:57,910 --> 01:49:01,090
All of these folks will be available to answer your questions at your convenience following

1200
01:49:01,090 --> 01:49:02,130
our formal presentation.

1201
01:49:06,190 --> 01:49:11,030
The brief summary of our how we're going to conduct our presentation today will have

1202
01:49:11,030 --> 01:49:15,070
some generic information about the background of GCC in this particular operation.

1203
01:49:15,730 --> 01:49:19,830
We will add to what staff has presented to you already regarding the Road Improvement

1204
01:49:19,830 --> 01:49:24,310
agreement, which is a condition of approval of this application if it's approved, and

1205
01:49:24,310 --> 01:49:29,450
which GCC has already executed so if it is approved, the board would simply sign it for

1206
01:49:29,450 --> 01:49:30,410
it to become effective.

1207
01:49:31,010 --> 01:49:35,970
We'll also address our concurrence with the staff report, which does recommend approval,

1208
01:49:36,270 --> 01:49:40,890
finding that the proposal with mitigation and conditions is compliant, compatible,

1209
01:49:41,390 --> 01:49:43,930
and consistent with the code and the long-range plans.

1210
01:49:44,370 --> 01:49:49,630
And we will also go through all of the criteria in the code that you are required to

1211
01:49:49,630 --> 01:49:54,790
consider in a Class II land use application and explain why it meets all of those criteria.

1212
01:49:56,070 --> 01:50:00,630
To begin this, I'd like to introduce Trent Peterson to my right, who's going to give

1213
01:50:00,630 --> 01:50:03,770
you the brief history of this process on the mind.

1214
01:50:15,630 --> 01:50:16,050
Thank you.

1215
01:50:17,410 --> 01:50:19,630
Trent Peterson, Vice President, I'd

1216
01:50:22,450 --> 01:50:24,750
like to begin by thanking the planning staff for

1217
01:50:24,750 --> 01:50:28,830
input and expertise as we've responded to inquiries and developed this application

1218
01:50:28,830 --> 01:50:33,470
throughout this process, the application that's now presented for your consideration.

1219
01:50:34,430 --> 01:50:38,210
I'd like to thank the county administration and county attorney,

1220
01:50:38,630 --> 01:50:42,970
as we work diligently through the road improvement agreement over the last few months.

1221
01:50:44,370 --> 01:50:49,330
And special thanks to the county's public works for maintaining the county roadways

1222
01:50:49,330 --> 01:50:53,990
that are really the infrastructure that makes it possible and flexible.

1223
01:50:54,950 --> 01:50:59,470
Finally, I want to thank and acknowledge the members of the community for their involvement

1224
01:50:59,470 --> 01:51:05,310
and feedback through this process, and a number of people in the audience here I recognize

1225
01:51:05,310 --> 01:51:07,870
have been engaged since the very beginning.

1226
01:51:09,290 --> 01:51:14,390
A lot of tough conversations over the last few years, but as a result, we have reached

1227
01:51:14,950 --> 01:51:20,950
a better conclusion, and in the true nature of compromise, this is something that hasn't

1228
01:51:20,950 --> 01:51:26,290
satisfied all parties, but we were able to achieve a consensus with a broad spectrum of

1229
01:51:26,290 --> 01:51:31,290
the community, answer a number of questions that have come up over the last few years.

1230
01:51:35,270 --> 01:51:38,550
I want to thank you for taking the time to visit the mine a couple of weeks ago. I'm

1231
01:51:38,550 --> 01:51:42,730
sorry I wasn't able to be there. I was on vacation, which had planned a long time

1232
01:51:42,730 --> 01:51:43,070
before.

1233
01:51:46,230 --> 01:51:50,050
You've seen this already, but just to point out where some of the things

1234
01:51:50,050 --> 01:51:52,890
for members of the public that may not be familiar with it.

1235
01:51:53,590 --> 01:51:59,150
Towards the left-hand side of the picture is a stockpile with a conveyor stacker.

1236
01:51:59,610 --> 01:52:02,510
That's the conveyor that comes out of the mine.

1237
01:52:03,390 --> 01:52:06,510
We're looking essentially due north from the county road.

1238
01:52:06,970 --> 01:52:09,910
That conveyor extends approximately a mile into the mine.

1239
01:52:10,810 --> 01:52:15,210
That stockpile there holds about 10,000 tons of coal and live storage

1240
01:52:15,210 --> 01:52:17,390
up to about 20,000 if necessary.

1241
01:52:18,890 --> 01:52:28,660
Off to the right side of the picture, crushing and screening operation where coal is sized

1242
01:52:28,660 --> 01:52:34,780
for distribution to customers, and then behind that in the background is another stockpile

1243
01:52:34,780 --> 01:52:37,040
of finished coal that would be for distribution.

1244
01:52:37,980 --> 01:52:42,700
Approximately in the center of the photo are two truck bins where trucks are loaded

1245
01:52:42,700 --> 01:52:49,600
live, as you may have seen during the typical loading time on a truck is about five minutes.

1246
01:52:52,530 --> 01:52:57,710
Something that is worth pointing out here is that what you see in this picture is essentially

1247
01:52:57,710 --> 01:53:04,010
what you will always see. The operations here that are visible are the operations

1248
01:53:04,010 --> 01:53:09,670
that are on the surface. Essentially everything else is underground. This operation is no

1249
01:53:09,670 --> 01:53:15,530
no mountain top removal, no steep slope mining, no disturbance of prime hay-gulch farmland,

1250
01:53:16,150 --> 01:53:18,850
there are no blasting operations associated with this.

1251
01:53:20,940 --> 01:53:22,100
Finally, it's a dry mine.

1252
01:53:23,220 --> 01:53:25,220
The water table is below the coal seam.

1253
01:53:26,240 --> 01:53:31,580
No water is encountered in the mining operation and something that makes this just about

1254
01:53:31,580 --> 01:53:34,420
a perfect spot for a coal miner is there's no methane either.

1255
01:53:35,780 --> 01:53:37,800
Right now we have about 120 employees.

1256
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:38,580
The

1257
01:53:48,370 --> 01:53:50,790
coal is used almost strictly for cement production.

1258
01:53:51,850 --> 01:53:56,630
We also serve the Durango and Silverton railroads and several other historic railroads around

1259
01:53:56,630 --> 01:54:02,470
the western United States and an enduring use for home heating coal, serving about

1260
01:54:02,470 --> 01:54:04,830
1,500 households across the four corners.

1261
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:11,180
The coal from the King II mine is almost ideally suited for cement production.

1262
01:54:12,120 --> 01:54:19,440
I won't go into the details of it, but over the years the cement industry has recognized

1263
01:54:20,200 --> 01:54:27,360
the low ash content, low sulfur content, low chlorine and mercury content, and seen

1264
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:31,580
that this coal provides an almost perfect fuel for a cement plant.

1265
01:54:32,340 --> 01:54:35,500
All cement plants use coal as a primary fuel source.

1266
01:54:36,160 --> 01:54:38,880
This coal is not used to serve the electric power industry.

1267
01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:49,860
And in spite of not having obtained a county land use permit yet, it's not as if the mine

1268
01:54:49,860 --> 01:54:50,520
isn't regulated.

1269
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:55,520
The mine is regulated by a number of different state and federal agencies.

1270
01:54:57,080 --> 01:55:00,180
And it looked proud of its compliance and safety record.

1271
01:55:00,860 --> 01:55:06,680
Right now, as of today, the mine is operated for 592 days without an injury, and recently

1272
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:10,440
learned that we were again selected to receive a safety award from Rocky Mountain

1273
01:55:10,440 --> 01:55:11,460
Coal Mining Institute.

1274
01:55:11,460 --> 01:55:12,580
It's

1275
01:55:19,780 --> 01:55:24,620
been asked many times by GCC that they didn't get a Class II land use permit before

1276
01:55:24,620 --> 01:55:25,480
King II opened.

1277
01:55:26,420 --> 01:55:32,120
I think it's been stated plenty of times that there was a determination that the county

1278
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:34,260
didn't have jurisdiction in 2007.

1279
01:55:34,940 --> 01:55:40,580
So GCC obtained all the necessary state and federal permits to begin operations at that

1280
01:55:40,580 --> 01:55:49,200
time subsequently when the county did determine jurisdiction, GCC did submit the application

1281
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:49,900
for a permit.

1282
01:55:55,330 --> 01:56:01,590
The question also is why this application has taken so long, and lots of times I wake

1283
01:56:01,590 --> 01:56:03,610
up in the morning and wonder the same thing myself.

1284
01:56:06,950 --> 01:56:13,710
But this timeline here points out what some of the major milestones in here have been

1285
01:56:13,710 --> 01:56:20,510
beginning in August 2010 when the county submitted a letter to GCC saying the

1286
01:56:20,510 --> 01:56:25,230
company was out of compliance with its land use code. So over the next several

1287
01:56:25,230 --> 01:56:29,770
months there was ongoing deliberation in the county of that statement in the

1288
01:56:29,770 --> 01:56:34,830
context of its earlier determinations of no jurisdiction and then in 2011 a

1289
01:56:34,830 --> 01:56:41,130
definitive determination that indeed the county did have jurisdiction which

1290
01:56:41,130 --> 01:56:44,550
which is a determination that GCC had no disagreement with.

1291
01:56:46,630 --> 01:56:56,490
The next several months, GCC started working on assembling the required documentation for

1292
01:56:56,490 --> 01:56:56,790
this.

1293
01:56:59,030 --> 01:57:03,570
And as we'll further illustrate, it's not a simple application.

1294
01:57:04,310 --> 01:57:09,010
It took a lot of time to conduct the required studies, develop the background information,

1295
01:57:09,010 --> 01:57:11,570
and assemble the package into what was at that time

1296
01:57:12,060 --> 01:57:13,790
thought to be a complete application.

1297
01:57:15,110 --> 01:57:17,490
After that, there were several neighborhood compatibility

1298
01:57:17,490 --> 01:57:18,830
meetings held.

1299
01:57:19,430 --> 01:57:22,050
And as a result of those meetings and the questions that

1300
01:57:22,050 --> 01:57:26,810
came up, there were a number of additional studies that GCC

1301
01:57:26,810 --> 01:57:32,150
conducted to address ground water, noise, and vibration.

1302
01:57:33,890 --> 01:57:37,330
And as I mentioned earlier, a lot of this is not simple.

1303
01:57:37,950 --> 01:57:40,050
Some of these are very complex studies.

1304
01:57:40,270 --> 01:57:56,190
For example, the groundwater study was one that the scope was determined and vetted by a combination of GCC, La Plata County, Bureau of Land Management, Colorado Division of Reclamation, Mining and Safety, and Office of Surface Mining and Reclamation.

1305
01:57:57,270 --> 01:58:02,710
Really, a multi-agency cooperation to determine what kind of study needed to be done.

1306
01:58:02,710 --> 01:58:08,350
And many of the studies that have been conducted have not been any kind of off-the-shelf studies.

1307
01:58:09,630 --> 01:58:14,930
But in that one, for example, even after the scope of the study was determined, it wasn't

1308
01:58:14,930 --> 01:58:21,190
one that could be completed in days or even weeks, and took literally months to finally

1309
01:58:21,190 --> 01:58:21,770
conclude.

1310
01:58:24,760 --> 01:58:34,280
December of 2014, December of 2014, we intended to go to a planning commission

1311
01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:36,680
hearing with a recommendation for approval.

1312
01:58:37,580 --> 01:58:42,620
Shortly before that time, there was a new great deal

1313
01:58:42,620 --> 01:58:46,280
of public input, primarily around traffic at that point,

1314
01:58:46,740 --> 01:58:49,900
and it was the county and GCC determined then

1315
01:58:49,900 --> 01:58:54,320
to continue that hearing until we could hear

1316
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:57,440
more public input and further study the concerns

1317
01:58:57,440 --> 01:58:58,400
that were being brought up.

1318
01:58:58,400 --> 01:59:09,220
Now, spring and summer of 2015, we convened the Hague-Elge Citizens Advisory Panel.

1319
01:59:09,880 --> 01:59:15,080
It was made up of three primary constituent groups, one residents along the north part

1320
01:59:15,080 --> 01:59:20,660
of County Road 120, another from Visitor Laurel subdivision off to the west of the

1321
01:59:20,660 --> 01:59:26,760
mine, and another from County Road 120, 116, and 119 south of the mine.

1322
01:59:26,760 --> 01:59:35,230
By the middle of the summer, the Hague-Elge Citizens Advisory Panel had issued 21 recommendations.

1323
01:59:36,090 --> 01:59:43,070
At this point, over half of those either will have been adopted by GCC or will be adopted.

1324
01:59:44,130 --> 01:59:46,710
A number of others were outside of the scope of this application.

1325
01:59:49,130 --> 01:59:56,030
July of last year, July 31st, GCC submitted supplemental information to the application

1326
01:59:56,680 --> 01:59:57,950
and updated studies.

1327
01:59:57,950 --> 01:59:59,790
At this point, studies that number

1328
02:00:00,180 --> 02:00:01,880
43 in total.

1329
02:00:04,520 --> 02:00:10,900
And then September 2nd of 2015 got a Board of Adjustment approval for an increase

1330
02:00:10,900 --> 02:00:18,940
from the standard 8.8% grade to 8.8% over a limited distance on the steep hill at approximately

1331
02:00:18,940 --> 02:00:29,670
mile 2.2 on County Road 120. October 8th of 2015, there was a request for continuance for two

1332
02:00:29,670 --> 02:00:36,410
reasons. One, provide additional information requested by the county and two, resolve the

1333
02:00:36,410 --> 02:00:39,890
unexpected necessary change to the water plan.

1334
02:00:42,670 --> 02:00:44,230
I think it's worth bringing up there that

1335
02:00:44,230 --> 02:00:50,270
the change to the water plan resulted from changes in enforcement patterns and regulation

1336
02:00:50,270 --> 02:00:59,650
from the Mind, Safety and Health Administration. When the first irrigation water was obtained

1337
02:00:59,650 --> 02:01:08,170
in 2006, the estimated long-term usage for water at the mine was less than five

1338
02:01:08,170 --> 02:01:13,990
gallons per every ton of coal mined. Changes in federal enforcement patterns

1339
02:01:13,990 --> 02:01:18,970
have now put that number at closer to 11 gallons per ton mined, so nearly double

1340
02:01:18,970 --> 02:01:19,990
the required water.

1341
02:01:24,680 --> 02:01:29,920
March 2nd and 3rd at April 14th of 2016, additional Planning

1342
02:01:29,920 --> 02:01:34,260
Commission hearings and finally a recommendation of approval by a four-to-one vote.

1343
02:01:35,420 --> 02:01:39,800
The bottom line of that is that the community process has taken time.

1344
02:01:40,800 --> 02:01:47,140
We've received feedback, a lot of questions, and engaged a number of experts to study the

1345
02:01:47,140 --> 02:01:48,300
issues that have been brought up.

1346
02:01:49,840 --> 02:01:55,980
And as I said before, over the course of this, engaged 43 separate studies to better

1347
02:01:55,980 --> 02:01:57,040
answer those questions.

1348
02:01:57,040 --> 02:02:02,000
A lot of tough conversations in the last few years, but ultimately we've reached a better

1349
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:02,460
result.

1350
02:02:03,520 --> 02:02:05,120
I'd like to turn this back over to Carolyn.

1351
02:02:14,570 --> 02:02:15,070
Thank you.

1352
02:02:15,370 --> 02:02:17,430
Again, Carolyn White-Landy's counsel for the applicant.

1353
02:02:18,710 --> 02:02:23,890
As has been discussed, it's worth noting that if this permit is approved, it will

1354
02:02:23,890 --> 02:02:29,790
not allow GCC to engage in any new activity or operations, but rather only allow them

1355
02:02:29,790 --> 02:02:32,270
to continue their existing activity and operations.

1356
02:02:32,270 --> 02:02:38,570
In fact, it will also require them to reduce their existing activity and operations down

1357
02:02:38,570 --> 02:02:40,950
to that AD truck level that was discussed earlier.

1358
02:02:41,390 --> 02:02:44,050
And we'll talk in more detail in a moment about the varying truck levels.

1359
02:02:44,410 --> 02:02:49,610
But that's an important factor, and it is the reason why a staff has noted that we're

1360
02:02:49,610 --> 02:02:54,810
discussing a phased construction of road improvements rather than the typical requirement

1361
02:02:54,810 --> 02:02:58,690
you might see for new undertaking in the county where the entirety of the road

1362
02:02:58,690 --> 02:03:01,710
improvements are required to be conducted before the operation commences.

1363
02:03:02,690 --> 02:03:08,110
If the permit is approved, GCC will be improving County Road 120 North.

1364
02:03:08,730 --> 02:03:12,610
They will be constructing approximately $10 million worth of total road improvements

1365
02:03:12,610 --> 02:03:16,850
for the benefit of the community and County Road 120 North, although not all of the

1366
02:03:16,850 --> 02:03:18,950
improvements are physically on 120 North.

1367
02:03:19,390 --> 02:03:23,210
Additionally, some of the most urgent and most important road improvements will

1368
02:03:23,210 --> 02:03:27,730
be conducted first, very soon, in fact this summer, and we'll go into more detail

1369
02:03:27,730 --> 02:03:29,570
on the phasing in a moment with Mike Wilson.

1370
02:03:30,350 --> 02:03:34,390
This also includes the maintenance fee of $0.12 per ton with escalation, as has already

1371
02:03:34,390 --> 02:03:34,930
been discussed.

1372
02:03:35,470 --> 02:03:40,850
Noise buffer walls, if the neighbors choose to have those implemented, they can have

1373
02:03:40,850 --> 02:03:44,490
that option throughout the entire life of the five-year phasing.

1374
02:03:44,990 --> 02:03:49,230
There will also be short-term and long-term limits on truck numbers, as well as a host

1375
02:03:49,230 --> 02:03:53,370
of other mitigation measures that have already been undertaken, despite the fact

1376
02:03:53,370 --> 02:03:55,030
that no permit has yet been granted.

1377
02:03:55,030 --> 02:04:00,890
GCC has undertaken those voluntarily on faith and in the hopes that eventually this permit

1378
02:04:00,890 --> 02:04:03,350
will be granted and will be allowed to continue operations.

1379
02:04:04,550 --> 02:04:09,050
As noted, this required some very difficult conversations and fundamental restructuring

1380
02:04:09,050 --> 02:04:10,990
of the business conducted here at this mine.

1381
02:04:11,210 --> 02:04:19,150
What I mean by that is GCC had to decide to produce less coal here than what they're

1382
02:04:19,150 --> 02:04:22,130
otherwise allowed to do in order to meet those reduced truck numbers.

1383
02:04:22,130 --> 02:04:28,010
and that requires an awful lot of internal evaluation at the highest levels of the corporate structure.

1384
02:04:28,790 --> 02:04:31,970
Approval of this permit would allow this long-standing issue to be resolved

1385
02:04:31,970 --> 02:04:36,410
and put both GCC and the neighbors in a better position than they are today.

1386
02:04:37,450 --> 02:04:41,450
I'd like to briefly summarize the Road Improvement Agreement and some of the key provisions of it.

1387
02:04:41,670 --> 02:04:44,710
I'll try not to be duplicative of what Mr. Murray presented earlier,

1388
02:04:45,070 --> 02:04:50,410
but some of the points that we want to emphasize is that the most important thing

1389
02:04:50,410 --> 02:04:55,810
is the initial reduction down to 80 trucks per day on average, and that will be in place,

1390
02:04:55,930 --> 02:05:00,430
that will be the limit in place for phases one, two, and three, all of that construction.

1391
02:05:00,930 --> 02:05:05,210
No additional trucks above the 80 with the 20 percent allowance and the average calculation

1392
02:05:05,210 --> 02:05:09,430
that was mentioned can occur until the completion of phases one, two, and three.

1393
02:05:10,030 --> 02:05:14,750
And the phases one, two, and three address the most urgent needs and those which

1394
02:05:14,750 --> 02:05:18,970
have generated the most concerned comment and question from the neighbors.

1395
02:05:18,970 --> 02:05:26,070
So at the conclusion of phase three, the entirety of County Road 120 North will be paved from

1396
02:05:26,070 --> 02:05:31,710
the intersection with 140 all the way to the end of the blue line, which is approximately

1397
02:05:31,710 --> 02:05:35,490
500 yards past the last private residence on that road.

1398
02:05:35,850 --> 02:05:39,170
So the question was asked earlier about the tracking, and there is a little bit of

1399
02:05:39,170 --> 02:05:40,190
a distance allowed there.

1400
02:05:40,490 --> 02:05:44,170
I'm told it's about 500 feet, but if we want to get precise, we can ask our traffic

1401
02:05:44,510 --> 02:05:45,950
expert on that a little bit later.

1402
02:05:45,950 --> 02:05:51,290
So, until all of those improvements are complete, no increase over the 80 trucks will be allowed.

1403
02:05:51,750 --> 02:05:56,490
And the reason for that in our understanding and discussions with county staff and based

1404
02:05:56,490 --> 02:06:01,530
on our experts analysis is that once those phases one, two, and three are complete,

1405
02:06:02,070 --> 02:06:09,510
it is certain that the road will be able to safely and compatibly accommodate the

1406
02:06:09,510 --> 02:06:14,090
next proposed increase in trucks from 80 to 100 trucks per day on average.

1407
02:06:14,090 --> 02:06:18,190
The other point I want to mention and we can address this in more detail later as well

1408
02:06:18,190 --> 02:06:22,870
is that when staff showed you that historic graph of the calculation of truck numbers,

1409
02:06:23,050 --> 02:06:28,470
the average truck numbers, 55, 90, and so on increasing per day, those were based on

1410
02:06:28,470 --> 02:06:29,750
seven-day averages.

1411
02:06:30,330 --> 02:06:33,470
The numbers that are being committed to as part of the Road Improvement Agreement

1412
02:06:33,470 --> 02:06:38,630
and this permit, if it's approved, are based on six-day averages due to GCC's

1413
02:06:38,630 --> 02:06:40,810
agreement to cease falling on Sunday.

1414
02:06:40,810 --> 02:06:46,030
That means it is not only reducing the total trucks, but distributing them over a shorter

1415
02:06:46,030 --> 02:06:50,090
period of time which further reduces the total number of trucks that will be allowed to use

1416
02:06:50,090 --> 02:06:50,570
this road.

1417
02:06:54,750 --> 02:06:58,090
A couple other key points about the road improvement agreement that I'd like to mention

1418
02:06:58,090 --> 02:06:59,510
that weren't previously highlighted.

1419
02:06:59,950 --> 02:07:04,010
Questions were asked about how the county will enforce the requirement that GCC construct

1420
02:07:04,010 --> 02:07:04,790
these improvements.

1421
02:07:05,450 --> 02:07:09,790
The road improvement agreement contains a provision requiring that financial security

1422
02:07:09,790 --> 02:07:15,230
be posted with the county in the amount of 120% of the estimated cost of the road improvements.

1423
02:07:15,770 --> 02:07:19,850
That cost estimate has to be submitted by GCC and approved by county staff.

1424
02:07:20,270 --> 02:07:24,330
And the county will have the ability to draw on those funds in the event that GCC fails

1425
02:07:24,330 --> 02:07:27,470
to complete the road improvements within the specified time.

1426
02:07:27,830 --> 02:07:29,870
So the county has that enforcement mechanism.

1427
02:07:30,070 --> 02:07:34,790
The county also has the additional enforcement mechanism through the contract, through the

1428
02:07:34,790 --> 02:07:38,410
road improvement agreement, in addition to the condition of approval, which was

1429
02:07:38,410 --> 02:07:44,070
mentioned by Mr. Smith earlier. And as a land use attorney who specializes in this,

1430
02:07:44,190 --> 02:07:48,630
I can tell you that it is exceedingly rare for any of my applicant clients to voluntarily

1431
02:07:48,630 --> 02:07:53,390
agree to that additional enforcement mechanism by contract as well as through the county

1432
02:07:53,390 --> 02:07:58,330
code enforcement powers. And so that is a unique feature of this and its additional

1433
02:07:58,330 --> 02:08:02,070
belt and suspenders that the county has to enforce the provisions of the Road

1434
02:08:02,070 --> 02:08:02,830
Improvement Agreement.

1435
02:08:02,830 --> 02:08:03,850
As

1436
02:08:07,210 --> 02:08:12,870
a result of this analysis, discussion, conditions of approval, ongoing mitigation

1437
02:08:12,870 --> 02:08:18,810
measures, and future planned mitigation measures, if the permit is approved, this application

1438
02:08:18,810 --> 02:08:23,750
meets all of the required criteria in the county code for approval of a Class II land

1439
02:08:23,750 --> 02:08:24,270
use permit.

1440
02:08:25,910 --> 02:08:28,590
We'll go through each of these in a little bit greater detail.

1441
02:08:28,830 --> 02:08:33,050
I'll bring the appropriate expert where we've planned that and we're also happy

1442
02:08:33,050 --> 02:08:36,510
to bring them up later if we didn't address your questions in as much detail as you would

1443
02:08:36,510 --> 02:08:36,710
like.

1444
02:08:40,120 --> 02:08:43,120
The other point we'd like to make here is that when we're talking about compatibility,

1445
02:08:43,580 --> 02:08:49,080
which as noted by staff is a qualitative standard, not a quantitative standard, there

1446
02:08:49,080 --> 02:08:53,180
certainly can be differences of opinion about whether or not compatibility is achieved

1447
02:08:53,180 --> 02:08:54,400
in any given circumstance.

1448
02:08:54,960 --> 02:08:59,220
But what we're not trying to do here and what compatibility doesn't mean is to

1449
02:08:59,220 --> 02:09:03,760
try to make this operation exactly the same as everything around it.

1450
02:09:03,760 --> 02:09:06,360
That's not compatibility, that's uniformity.

1451
02:09:06,880 --> 02:09:10,600
What we're talking about here is the process by which things which may be different

1452
02:09:10,600 --> 02:09:13,620
can be nonetheless rendered compatible with each other,

1453
02:09:14,060 --> 02:09:19,300
able to exist together without trouble or conflict by virtue of the various mitigation measures

1454
02:09:19,300 --> 02:09:24,300
that will be undertaken in order to address any impacts that might be created by one of the activities.

1455
02:09:26,500 --> 02:09:31,680
In order to understand what that might look like for the purposes of this application,

1456
02:09:31,680 --> 02:09:36,200
We did, as was noted, engage all these different experts and conduct all these various studies.

1457
02:09:36,800 --> 02:09:40,860
We have them sitting there in binders on the end of the table in case we need to refer to them.

1458
02:09:41,140 --> 02:09:48,540
And this might be a good opportunity for me to mention that not all of those studies are in the 77 attachments to your packet,

1459
02:09:48,760 --> 02:09:54,960
nor is every single document that is in the planning file that would, as a result, be way too voluminous

1460
02:09:54,960 --> 02:09:57,500
for you to reasonably review in preparation for this hearing.

1461
02:09:57,500 --> 02:10:04,980
If litigation were to commence, as I understand is being referenced by the opponents in their

1462
02:10:04,980 --> 02:10:10,020
presentation later today, and there were to be a discussion with the court over what constitutes

1463
02:10:10,020 --> 02:10:15,140
the record, that would be defined by color rule of civil procedure 106A4, and we can

1464
02:10:15,140 --> 02:10:20,440
engage in a debate about that at the appropriate time, point being that all of these studies

1465
02:10:20,440 --> 02:10:24,680
are part of the record, even though they may not have been attached to your packet

1466
02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:28,740
it today is one of the 77, and if you'd like us to refer to them, we're happy to do so,

1467
02:10:29,000 --> 02:10:31,480
and we have all the experts here to answer any questions about them.

1468
02:10:33,740 --> 02:10:39,820
Finally, we'd like to note that after lengthy discussion and conversation, we are in alignment

1469
02:10:39,820 --> 02:10:40,620
with county staff.

1470
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:45,240
We concur with the county staff report with their finding of a recommendation of approval

1471
02:10:45,240 --> 02:10:50,040
of consistency and compatibility, and we're also in alignment with all of the conditions

1472
02:10:50,040 --> 02:10:55,060
of approval that were recommended by county staff in the staff report, which I will

1473
02:10:55,060 --> 02:10:59,680
also tell you in my experience with this many conditions of approval is not very common.

1474
02:11:00,580 --> 02:11:05,240
So with that, I'd like to turn it over to our traffic expert to discuss the first criterion

1475
02:11:05,240 --> 02:11:06,700
related to traffic.

1476
02:11:25,500 --> 02:11:29,740
My name is Mike Olson, I'm with Road Hunter Engineering.

1477
02:11:30,600 --> 02:11:36,160
My address is 1315 Main Avenue on Durango Suite 221.

1478
02:11:36,160 --> 02:11:42,320
We've been working with GCC for a number of years now on addressing traffic issues.

1479
02:11:44,320 --> 02:11:50,180
In this particular, for the presentation, I want to focus on this particular first slide

1480
02:11:50,180 --> 02:11:57,000
here, which talks about the county's code requirement in Section 82-193-C2A.

1481
02:11:57,600 --> 02:12:02,300
And that's really that traffic generated by development will not create safety hazards,

1482
02:12:02,300 --> 02:12:07,140
to create traffic which is beyond the capacity of the affected roads or result in substantial

1483
02:12:07,140 --> 02:12:09,060
increases over existing traffic volumes.

1484
02:12:11,240 --> 02:12:20,300
The first thing I'd like to address is safety, and when I work, I work with policies and

1485
02:12:20,300 --> 02:12:26,860
guidelines that are accepted by the engineering field along with raw data, and raw data is

1486
02:12:26,860 --> 02:12:29,040
reflected here on this particular slide.

1487
02:12:29,040 --> 02:12:41,620
This particular graph or these columns here give a detail by year on the average trucks, loaded trucks per day.

1488
02:12:42,180 --> 02:12:45,580
And as you can see from 2011, you had 69 trucks.

1489
02:12:46,420 --> 02:12:51,880
And the increase by year to 72, 2013 has 84.

1490
02:12:53,040 --> 02:12:59,260
2014 had average of 110 trucks, and this past year had an average of 93 trucks.

1491
02:13:00,350 --> 02:13:04,440
What is of interest is the accidents on Canary Road 120 North.

1492
02:13:05,400 --> 02:13:11,680
As you can, the corresponding levels go from three accidents involving the, or three

1493
02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:15,140
accidents on 120 North, action involving GCC is zero.

1494
02:13:15,140 --> 02:13:25,280
And they increase, and as they increase, GCC started putting in interim measures to address traffic impacts.

1495
02:13:26,420 --> 02:13:38,620
2014, we had 110 trucks per day. Accidents on 120 North, there were four. Accents involved in GCC were one.

1496
02:13:39,760 --> 02:13:46,380
Most of the existing interim measures were in place now as reflected here in 2015.

1497
02:13:46,980 --> 02:13:48,360
There are 93 trucks a day.

1498
02:13:49,340 --> 02:13:51,400
Accents on 120 North, zero.

1499
02:13:52,460 --> 02:13:54,620
Accents involving GCC, zero.

1500
02:13:55,780 --> 02:13:58,760
That's a significant improvement there,

1501
02:13:58,880 --> 02:14:03,940
and that actually reflects directly on the involvement that GCC has been with the trucking.

1502
02:14:05,220 --> 02:14:13,640
Most of the information that I evaluated is combined in a report for traffic impact assessment

1503
02:14:13,640 --> 02:14:16,260
dated November 18, 2015.

1504
02:14:18,020 --> 02:14:24,200
With that, it identifies the improvements, it identifies impacts of the mine and the

1505
02:14:24,200 --> 02:14:25,460
corresponding improvements.

1506
02:14:26,480 --> 02:14:31,420
What GCC is committed to is approximately $10 million in road improvements.

1507
02:14:31,420 --> 02:14:38,580
This includes the highway at one intersection, the state intersection 140 and counter at 120.

1508
02:14:40,060 --> 02:14:46,180
It also reflects the agreed to reduction of haul truck loads to 80 trucks per day.

1509
02:14:47,100 --> 02:14:49,540
And that's consistent based on the RIA.

1510
02:14:49,660 --> 02:14:56,620
And that RIA was an agreement that was worked through between the county and GCC.

1511
02:14:57,480 --> 02:14:59,900
And then it also includes the maintenance fee.

1512
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:07,500
We have 12 cents a time with escalation, correctly noted by Jim Davis as that reflects current maintenance

1513
02:15:07,500 --> 02:15:16,620
levels. Also, it includes chip sealing of the asphalt and roadways. It does not, the separate

1514
02:15:16,620 --> 02:15:20,240
10 million actually addresses the actual roadway improvements.

1515
02:15:26,360 --> 02:15:36,860
So, let me talk just briefly, the stark use of 120, that's, we've been on using the, it's been used for transporting coal in and out.

1516
02:15:37,760 --> 02:15:48,700
And a pair of times it tried using the southern approach, which is 119, 116, up to 120 south, pass of mine, and then out on 120 north.

1517
02:15:49,280 --> 02:15:53,260
Also been looked at as using just strictly 120, the north and south.

1518
02:15:54,780 --> 02:16:02,840
Each, they've tried it twice, and each time based on internal policies and also discussions

1519
02:16:02,840 --> 02:16:10,120
with local representatives of agencies such as Dranga Fire Rescue, is that they have concluded

1520
02:16:10,120 --> 02:16:15,720
that using the southern approaches, they have multiple incidents, and that was part

1521
02:16:15,720 --> 02:16:19,640
of the decision that was made to use 120 North solely.

1522
02:16:19,640 --> 02:16:20,580
And

1523
02:16:27,680 --> 02:16:34,580
I just want to make a note here on 120 South and 119, specifically going into the intersection

1524
02:16:34,580 --> 02:16:39,960
of 120, excuse me, 119 and State Highway 140.

1525
02:16:40,740 --> 02:16:47,960
If you use that particular intersection, it's at a skew and actually deposits into adjacent

1526
02:16:47,960 --> 02:16:51,580
to the Fort Lewis Mesa School.

1527
02:16:52,180 --> 02:16:58,360
That's one of the areas that was addressed and it was you try not to have a particular

1528
02:16:59,020 --> 02:17:03,640
situation where you create a safety concern at a school district along with other places,

1529
02:17:03,660 --> 02:17:09,980
but this was one of the reasons that was made to move trucks to the north that would

1530
02:17:09,980 --> 02:17:14,500
eliminate some of the safety concerns that would exist at the school.

1531
02:17:16,630 --> 02:17:18,130
So we looked at six different options.

1532
02:17:19,610 --> 02:17:23,310
The option is being staying on 120 North.

1533
02:17:24,010 --> 02:17:29,090
Second option was making a loop system where you'd use 120 South to 120 North.

1534
02:17:30,170 --> 02:17:37,570
The second loop system was evaluated based on using 120 North, 116, 119 loop.

1535
02:17:38,650 --> 02:17:47,470
The third, I mean the fourth option would be a dedicated haul route that would actually run across the state land board lands

1536
02:17:47,470 --> 02:17:54,810
lands and then deposit approximately at the location of the King I site and then proceed

1537
02:17:54,810 --> 02:18:02,550
on to a section of the County Road 120 North that's west of the existing residences.

1538
02:18:03,350 --> 02:18:08,790
The fifth was putting in a dedicated hall route which matches the across the state

1539
02:18:08,790 --> 02:18:13,050
land boards, cross private lands, and then it would actually be to a conveyor point

1540
02:18:13,050 --> 02:18:19,490
which the conveyor would take the product and move it from the facility up to the top

1541
02:18:19,490 --> 02:18:23,910
of the ridge, and then it would actually be brought onto coal trucks at that time that

1542
02:18:23,910 --> 02:18:24,890
coal trucks would move out.

1543
02:18:25,450 --> 02:18:31,270
And the last option would be using a conveyor from the mine site to approximate the intersection

1544
02:18:31,270 --> 02:18:40,470
of Kenner Road 120, State Highway 140, and at that point it would actually be loaded

1545
02:18:40,470 --> 02:18:43,110
onto trucks and distributed on public ways.

1546
02:18:49,650 --> 02:18:54,190
Criteria that we focused on were population,

1547
02:18:54,590 --> 02:18:57,430
road geometry, accident records and time.

1548
02:19:00,750 --> 02:19:03,430
The cost was also played an role,

1549
02:19:03,750 --> 02:19:05,930
but that was not the governing factor.

1550
02:19:06,170 --> 02:19:09,570
It was these four factors that were evaluated as part of this.

1551
02:19:12,420 --> 02:19:13,060
So population,

1552
02:19:18,240 --> 02:19:20,220
this map is a great representation

1553
02:19:20,220 --> 02:19:24,800
of where the population exists out in this 120 area.

1554
02:19:25,020 --> 02:19:31,100
As you can see, there's a sort of a beige yellowish-tinged square,

1555
02:19:31,560 --> 02:19:34,380
and that's the location of the mine itself.

1556
02:19:37,820 --> 02:19:41,880
South of the mine, there's approximately three times as many residents

1557
02:19:41,880 --> 02:19:44,520
as north and west of the mine.

1558
02:19:52,680 --> 02:19:55,240
Look at the road geometry, and this is simplified,

1559
02:19:55,240 --> 02:20:02,020
but with it it reflects we've identified places that with dots and those dot

1560
02:20:02,020 --> 02:20:08,500
representations are intersections with county roads, corners in excess of 8%,

1561
02:20:09,320 --> 02:20:14,840
90 degree corners. The reason those particular points are noted is those are

1562
02:20:14,840 --> 02:20:22,860
typically areas of that you have concerns with safety. On this with this

1563
02:20:22,860 --> 02:20:30,280
Evaluation, as you can see, is the Rotary Geometry 120 North, simplified again, has seven dots.

1564
02:20:30,880 --> 02:20:33,100
120 South has 11 dots.

1565
02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:37,460
119, 116, 120 South has 11 dots.

1566
02:20:38,300 --> 02:20:45,820
So in effect, with this Rotary Geometry Assessment, you have a safer road going to the north.

1567
02:20:45,820 --> 02:20:46,380
We

1568
02:20:53,740 --> 02:21:00,520
looked at accent records, identified some locations that needed to be addressed as part

1569
02:21:00,520 --> 02:21:01,500
of any improvements.

1570
02:21:02,900 --> 02:21:10,460
With that, through this summary criteria, I'm going to go back just a bit.

1571
02:21:10,900 --> 02:21:15,940
The accent records show locations of high accent rates.

1572
02:21:16,660 --> 02:21:20,720
On 120 North, that's two locations, 90-degree corner, and that's Wiltsies Barn.

1573
02:21:20,720 --> 02:21:25,740
On 120 South, you've got two locations there that are 90-grid-quarters.

1574
02:21:26,100 --> 02:21:33,300
And these are locations, I think, that as part of your tour of the site out there on the county road system

1575
02:21:33,300 --> 02:21:40,500
that may have been identified with Jim Davis noting either excessive grade or 90-grid-quarters

1576
02:21:40,500 --> 02:21:45,220
or places where you've got intersections with existing county roads.

1577
02:21:47,940 --> 02:21:50,360
One thing I didn't mention was the permitting time.

1578
02:21:50,360 --> 02:21:55,780
time. By having a dedicated haul route, you're looking at the environmental requirements,

1579
02:21:56,160 --> 02:22:03,100
the archaeological requirements, the assessments on what in fact that – in establishing

1580
02:22:03,100 --> 02:22:09,920
a roadway, and that that takes time. It takes a significant amount of time. And using

1581
02:22:09,920 --> 02:22:15,460
a haul route across the State Land Board lands, though they agreed to allow us to

1582
02:22:15,460 --> 02:22:21,080
evaluate just briefly as part of our option assessment, they are not supportive of it.

1583
02:22:22,740 --> 02:22:30,640
So with that, you're looking just to get in place any type of haul route, and we've noted

1584
02:22:30,640 --> 02:22:33,360
here greater than five years, that's probably right.

1585
02:22:34,420 --> 02:22:40,380
And so that you're, we're looking to try to make an immediate impact, immediate improvements

1586
02:22:40,380 --> 02:22:45,800
to address the King Tube trucking.

1587
02:22:46,840 --> 02:22:49,620
So on this also, this particular slide,

1588
02:22:49,760 --> 02:22:54,820
we've made a note here that as part of the Fort Lewis Mesa Fire District

1589
02:22:54,820 --> 02:22:58,080
letter dated January 15, 2016,

1590
02:22:59,100 --> 02:23:02,880
an alternate route of County Road 120 South, North Loop,

1591
02:23:03,340 --> 02:23:07,460
and 121-16-1-19 Loop are less safe.

1592
02:23:07,460 --> 02:23:12,660
That's due to lower visibility, more intersections, hills, greater populations, accidents, schools.

1593
02:23:13,860 --> 02:23:21,060
Their assessment is consistent with my assessment that that is less desirable than using a 120

1594
02:23:21,060 --> 02:23:21,340
North.

1595
02:23:23,770 --> 02:23:33,450
So at this time, we just – so this is, again, the road improvement of the truck

1596
02:23:33,450 --> 02:23:41,550
limits that Daniel provided to us and that does a great job on actor reflecting what

1597
02:23:41,550 --> 02:23:43,650
in fact is going to happen based on the timing.

1598
02:23:45,310 --> 02:23:52,590
One question was this interim paving that's extending the paving from the end of the

1599
02:23:52,590 --> 02:23:59,470
existing paving which is approximately mile post 2.5 to approximately 5,000 feet close

1600
02:23:59,470 --> 02:24:01,030
to a mile west.

1601
02:24:01,030 --> 02:24:08,230
Where does that actually occur? Where does that stop? It's intended to stop west of

1602
02:24:08,230 --> 02:24:13,630
the Huntsinger Park parcel. The reason for that is that there is a corner. In the

1603
02:24:13,630 --> 02:24:21,690
corner, the existing alignment of the road, the wind runs from west to east

1604
02:24:21,690 --> 02:24:28,110
and we want to capture, we want to pave beyond that corner so that you

1605
02:24:28,110 --> 02:24:34,050
You don't generate dust as trucks go around that corner and actually proceeds down the

1606
02:24:34,050 --> 02:24:39,610
gulch, and that's where existing dust problems occur.

1607
02:24:39,990 --> 02:24:48,090
So by paving around the corner, that should address the dust that is airborne that actually

1608
02:24:48,090 --> 02:24:51,210
is captured and proceeds each bound.

1609
02:24:54,610 --> 02:25:01,810
The phasing has been addressed with the also, let me step back.

1610
02:25:02,110 --> 02:25:03,110
So that's the interim paving.

1611
02:25:03,450 --> 02:25:04,330
That's a three-inch mat.

1612
02:25:04,590 --> 02:25:07,710
That's a, when I say mat, that's the inflictus of the asphalt.

1613
02:25:08,070 --> 02:25:10,290
It's supposed to be 24-foot wide.

1614
02:25:10,750 --> 02:25:14,130
It's intended to be widened in some places where they currently have some tight corners

1615
02:25:14,130 --> 02:25:20,330
and also be tightened, widened so that it'll allow for some parking air at the hunting or parcel.

1616
02:25:21,570 --> 02:25:22,770
We'll address drainage.

1617
02:25:24,710 --> 02:25:32,610
There was a recommendation from LSC, it was a traffic site that put flashing signs there

1618
02:25:32,610 --> 02:25:37,670
at the narrows and also at the Ulte Spahn as an interim measure.

1619
02:25:38,330 --> 02:25:39,270
That is greed.

1620
02:25:39,730 --> 02:25:44,530
So that's part of the interim measures of phase one is to put in flashing signs that

1621
02:25:44,530 --> 02:25:47,750
that will allow for people traveling on 120

1622
02:25:48,330 --> 02:25:51,870
that will note that if there's another vehicle

1623
02:25:51,870 --> 02:25:54,090
within that section or road section,

1624
02:25:54,470 --> 02:25:56,750
so because of site distances is not limited.

1625
02:25:57,370 --> 02:25:58,930
And so at the Wiltsies Barn,

1626
02:25:59,010 --> 02:26:00,350
I'm gonna use the term Wiltsies Barn

1627
02:26:00,350 --> 02:26:02,530
because that's generally what it's discussed,

1628
02:26:03,090 --> 02:26:05,470
but that area along with the narrows

1629
02:26:05,470 --> 02:26:07,970
will be installing flashing warning signs

1630
02:26:07,970 --> 02:26:09,530
for approaching vehicles.

1631
02:26:15,040 --> 02:26:17,280
That time I'd like to turn it back over to Carolyn.

1632
02:26:17,280 --> 02:26:17,900
The

1633
02:26:27,110 --> 02:26:31,170
next portion of our presentation we'd like to briefly give you a high-level overview

1634
02:26:31,170 --> 02:26:35,130
of each of the criteria and how the studies demonstrate that these criteria are met.

1635
02:26:35,690 --> 02:26:39,390
Now necessarily there's a lot of detail and we're not going to be able to cover all of

1636
02:26:39,390 --> 02:26:40,570
it within the time allotted.

1637
02:26:40,970 --> 02:26:45,110
These slides are admittedly full of a lot of text and a little crowded.

1638
02:26:45,530 --> 02:26:49,050
I'm going to give you just a quick summary and then we can come back to this and

1639
02:26:49,050 --> 02:26:53,550
engage in as much detail as you'd care to during the question and answer period.

1640
02:26:53,550 --> 02:26:58,550
The next criteria we're addressing is the one referenced by staff in their table,

1641
02:26:58,910 --> 02:27:02,030
and that is that any one of the following will not disturb the neighbors,

1642
02:27:02,190 --> 02:27:04,790
noise, odor, smoke, dust, vibration, et cetera.

1643
02:27:06,430 --> 02:27:11,250
The ones that have been focused on the most in this criterion are noise, dust, and vibration,

1644
02:27:11,470 --> 02:27:13,430
and that's where we'll spend the most time, obviously.

1645
02:27:14,230 --> 02:27:22,430
The first four bullets on this slide all reference studies which relate to noise and vibration at the mine.

1646
02:27:22,430 --> 02:27:26,430
So these are on the site of the mine, not along the roadway.

1647
02:27:26,690 --> 02:27:32,870
And all of these studies concluded that there was no measurable noise or vibration exceeding

1648
02:27:32,870 --> 02:27:34,810
appropriate standards at the mine itself.

1649
02:27:35,270 --> 02:27:38,630
Really the majority of the conversation is focused on the roadway and that's where

1650
02:27:38,630 --> 02:27:40,410
we'll focus our presentation today.

1651
02:27:40,790 --> 02:27:45,470
But I would just note that the studies related to noise and vibration at the mine are

1652
02:27:45,470 --> 02:27:47,290
attachment 12 in your packet.

1653
02:27:48,190 --> 02:27:51,450
The other studies that were conducted and that are summarized on this slide

1654
02:27:51,450 --> 02:27:55,870
addressed really the issue of truck traffic, the noise, dust, and vibration emanating from

1655
02:27:55,870 --> 02:27:58,570
trucks traveling along County Road 120 North.

1656
02:28:00,210 --> 02:28:04,830
In addition to the study performed by GCC's consultant way of engineering, the county then

1657
02:28:04,830 --> 02:28:10,170
retained Dr. Aimee Martin to perform a third-party analysis of GCC's noise study.

1658
02:28:10,650 --> 02:28:13,990
That analysis is an attachment 15 to the staff report.

1659
02:28:14,930 --> 02:28:19,630
And although Dr. Martin did recommend certain additional measures and certain additional

1660
02:28:19,630 --> 02:28:25,150
studies be conducted, they did not fundamentally disagree with certain of the conclusions in

1661
02:28:25,150 --> 02:28:30,470
GCC's study, for example, the 86 DBA that was discussed earlier, being used as the appropriate

1662
02:28:30,470 --> 02:28:35,610
standard to measure the noise emanating from truck traffic along County Road 120 North.

1663
02:28:36,690 --> 02:28:41,870
Wave Engineering then performed a follow-up study in January 2016 to address the additional

1664
02:28:41,870 --> 02:28:44,530
areas of study recommended by Dr. Emily Martin.

1665
02:28:44,530 --> 02:28:57,550
That study is Attachment 13 to the staff report, and all of these studies concluded that the trucks along 120 North will meet the state standard of 86 DBA measure to 50 feet from the center line of the highway.

1666
02:28:58,190 --> 02:29:13,930
So when we talk about the proposal that additional buffering be installed in certain locations to protect individual private residences, these are additional measures being recommended by the county and agreed to by GCC in order to further reduce

1667
02:29:13,930 --> 02:29:19,810
reduce the noise experienced at those properties below the 86, which it already will meet even

1668
02:29:19,810 --> 02:29:20,730
without the buffering.

1669
02:29:21,110 --> 02:29:22,550
So I want to be real clear on that.

1670
02:29:22,650 --> 02:29:27,410
The buffering is proposed to further reduce the noise experience below the standard,

1671
02:29:27,470 --> 02:29:30,030
which is already met without the buffering measures.

1672
02:29:30,530 --> 02:29:33,790
The modeling indicates that that would be somewhere, as was mentioned, in the neighborhood

1673
02:29:33,790 --> 02:29:37,050
of four to nine DBA, depending on the situation.

1674
02:29:37,570 --> 02:29:42,430
And the question was asked, Commissioner, about what would happen if actual situation

1675
02:29:42,430 --> 02:29:46,110
on the ground turned not to be the case if the buffering were installed and it

1676
02:29:46,110 --> 02:29:50,650
didn't further mitigate that obviously would be a situation where pursuant to

1677
02:29:50,650 --> 02:29:54,670
your normal code enforcement you'd have the ability to that property owner would

1678
02:29:54,670 --> 02:29:58,170
notify the county that the they were experiencing noise levels which they

1679
02:29:58,170 --> 02:29:59,970
felt exceeded the standard the county

1680
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:03,540
They would probably send someone out to take a measurement, and if it did exceed the standard,

1681
02:30:03,900 --> 02:30:05,060
then you could impress further

1682
02:30:07,520 --> 02:30:12,160
through your normal code enforcement process.

1683
02:30:15,650 --> 02:30:16,950
I'd like to move on to dust.

1684
02:30:19,550 --> 02:30:22,890
All of the studies concluded that the dust that is generated both

1685
02:30:22,890 --> 02:30:27,350
at the mine site and along County Road 120 North does not exceed the applicable standards.

1686
02:30:27,850 --> 02:30:33,050
We understand that the neighbors have submitted a study which modeled that those standards

1687
02:30:33,050 --> 02:30:37,630
would in fact be exceeded, our expert disagrees with some of the methodologies

1688
02:30:37,630 --> 02:30:42,050
used by their expert and we can get into that detail if you would like, but one of

1689
02:30:42,050 --> 02:30:46,170
the key and most important factors here is that the principal reason for dust to

1690
02:30:46,170 --> 02:30:49,630
be experienced along County Road 120 North is of course the fact that that

1691
02:30:49,630 --> 02:30:53,630
road is not paved at present and if this permit is approved the immediate

1692
02:30:53,630 --> 02:30:57,930
obligation on GCC is to pave that stretch of road that was highlighted

1693
02:30:57,930 --> 02:31:02,530
in blue on the prior slide and that paving will virtually eliminate the

1694
02:31:02,530 --> 02:31:04,350
a dust situation in that stretch.

1695
02:31:05,030 --> 02:31:07,290
And so, yes, it is true that the situation

1696
02:31:07,290 --> 02:31:08,830
can be continued to be monitored,

1697
02:31:08,930 --> 02:31:11,730
and if additional dust, which violates the standard,

1698
02:31:11,790 --> 02:31:14,750
is noticed and demonstrated by the county

1699
02:31:14,750 --> 02:31:16,470
that additional enforcement can be taken.

1700
02:31:16,930 --> 02:31:19,230
But the reason that situation exists today

1701
02:31:19,230 --> 02:31:21,230
is because the fact that this road is now paved.

1702
02:31:21,690 --> 02:31:25,450
And GCC is already engaging in significant

1703
02:31:25,450 --> 02:31:28,030
interim mitigation measures to address that.

1704
02:31:28,330 --> 02:31:29,850
And they will continue to engage

1705
02:31:29,850 --> 02:31:31,690
in those interim mitigation measures

1706
02:31:31,690 --> 02:31:36,190
up to and through the date when the paving is complete, and those mitigation measures

1707
02:31:36,190 --> 02:31:40,890
include watering up to four times a day when it's necessary based on weather conditions.

1708
02:31:41,770 --> 02:31:46,610
Right now, that paving is scheduled to start in June if this permit is approved.

1709
02:31:50,570 --> 02:31:52,750
I'd like to briefly also address the buffering options.

1710
02:31:53,130 --> 02:31:58,550
It was suggested in one of the various studies that further noise reduction could

1711
02:31:58,550 --> 02:32:03,230
be achieved by the installation of buffering, visual and noise buffering, along certain

1712
02:32:03,230 --> 02:32:07,950
of the affected properties. GCC has agreed as a condition of approval to make that available.

1713
02:32:08,450 --> 02:32:12,210
I want to be clear that this is solely at the election of the affected property owners.

1714
02:32:12,410 --> 02:32:16,750
If they choose not to have buffers installed along their property, then no buffers will

1715
02:32:16,750 --> 02:32:21,190
be installed. It is purely optional for them. If they elect to have the buffers

1716
02:32:21,190 --> 02:32:27,790
installed, GCC will do so at their own expense. And the window during which they

1717
02:32:27,790 --> 02:32:31,930
have to elect that is from the approval of the permit up through and concluding

1718
02:32:31,930 --> 02:32:34,410
the completion of the very last phase of construction.

1719
02:32:34,850 --> 02:32:39,930
In other words, they have the ability to change their mind later in the process if they would

1720
02:32:39,930 --> 02:32:43,910
prefer not to have the buffering installed today, but want to wait and see whether the

1721
02:32:43,910 --> 02:32:48,590
paving and the other measures suitably address their concerns or whether they would like

1722
02:32:48,590 --> 02:32:51,110
to then add the buffering later on in the process.

1723
02:32:55,880 --> 02:32:59,540
In addition, I'll just mention this new condition of approval that was added since the Planning

1724
02:32:59,540 --> 02:33:04,080
Commission to which GCC has agreed, which is that if the county determines it's

1725
02:33:04,080 --> 02:33:09,580
necessary and appropriate, it may retain an additional expert at GCC's expense to assist

1726
02:33:09,580 --> 02:33:14,000
the county in evaluating the efficacy of the various buffering options being considered.

1727
02:33:15,960 --> 02:33:21,420
Here's a sample of some of the potential types of buffering which are available, and these

1728
02:33:21,420 --> 02:33:26,500
are attachment 61 in your staff report if you'd like to look at them in further detail.

1729
02:33:32,100 --> 02:33:37,300
The last one on that list about none of the following shall affect the neighbors

1730
02:33:37,300 --> 02:33:42,800
was hours of operation. This slide briefly summarizes the reductions in hours of operation

1731
02:33:42,800 --> 02:33:49,060
that GCC has agreed to as conditions of approval. This affects principally the use of County

1732
02:33:49,060 --> 02:33:55,580
Road 120 North and no truck traffic on Sundays and clustering of truck traffic, 80% of the

1733
02:33:55,580 --> 02:34:00,820
truck traffic during daylight hours with only 20% distributed through the evening hours.

1734
02:34:01,400 --> 02:34:05,700
And those are the proposed mitigations in order to ensure that the hours of operation

1735
02:34:05,700 --> 02:34:08,200
of this facility will not disturb the neighbors.

1736
02:34:13,040 --> 02:34:16,220
Next criterion addresses adverse and unsightly views.

1737
02:34:16,460 --> 02:34:18,880
The mine operation itself, you saw a photograph of it earlier

1738
02:34:18,880 --> 02:34:21,300
and you saw it in your site visit as well.

1739
02:34:21,440 --> 02:34:22,480
It's located up a drainage.

1740
02:34:22,960 --> 02:34:26,080
It's really not visible, certainly from any private residences

1741
02:34:26,080 --> 02:34:29,220
and barely visible from County Road 120 North.

1742
02:34:29,600 --> 02:34:31,960
We're really mostly, as with the rest of this application,

1743
02:34:32,140 --> 02:34:34,880
talking about the truck traffic on County Road 120 North,

1744
02:34:35,220 --> 02:34:36,880
not the mine operation itself.

1745
02:34:37,360 --> 02:34:39,020
If the individual affected neighbors

1746
02:34:39,020 --> 02:34:44,900
drivers who may have some visual impact from truck traffic so elect, they could have a

1747
02:34:44,900 --> 02:34:47,620
buffering as an additional option to mitigate this impact.

1748
02:34:51,690 --> 02:34:56,290
Another criterion is that the development will not cause pollution of ground or surface

1749
02:34:56,290 --> 02:34:56,730
waters.

1750
02:34:59,000 --> 02:35:03,220
As was noted by Mr. Peterson at the beginning of our presentation, unlike many coal mines,

1751
02:35:03,820 --> 02:35:08,600
the water table in this case is below the coal seam and therefore no water is encountered

1752
02:35:08,600 --> 02:35:09,800
in the process of mining.

1753
02:35:09,800 --> 02:35:16,180
This greatly reduces the potential for there to be groundwater contamination, just in the first place, as a practical matter.

1754
02:35:16,780 --> 02:35:23,160
But additionally, this slide summarizes many of these studies that were conducted, which also reached the same conclusion,

1755
02:35:23,360 --> 02:35:27,860
namely that there is no negative impact on groundwater as a result of the mining operation.

1756
02:35:28,460 --> 02:35:33,040
Further, as was explained by staff, as part of the other permit requirements,

1757
02:35:33,040 --> 02:35:38,460
requirements, GCC will be engaging in ongoing groundwater monitoring through the drilling

1758
02:35:38,460 --> 02:35:42,180
of a number of groundwater monitoring wells.

1759
02:35:42,780 --> 02:35:47,100
And if you'd like to ask some more questions or have more detail about exactly how that

1760
02:35:47,100 --> 02:35:52,640
ongoing groundwater monitoring will work, we have the appropriate person here to answer

1761
02:35:52,640 --> 02:35:53,480
those questions.

1762
02:35:54,820 --> 02:35:59,560
But the data that has been collected so far demonstrates that there is no negative

1763
02:35:59,560 --> 02:36:03,720
of operation on groundwater quality today as a result of mine operations.

1764
02:36:04,320 --> 02:36:08,220
And that report is Attachment 22 to the staff report.

1765
02:36:11,060 --> 02:36:16,380
Next criterion is that the development will not adversely change the character of the neighborhood.

1766
02:36:18,570 --> 02:36:23,540
This is something which obviously is a more qualitative type of standard for you to review,

1767
02:36:24,000 --> 02:36:28,580
but it should be noted that resource extraction is inherently compatible with the rural character

1768
02:36:28,580 --> 02:36:32,920
of the area insofar as it's been occurring in this location, depending on who you ask,

1769
02:36:33,000 --> 02:36:40,340
at least as far back as 1941, if not 1939, it's been here for a very, very long time.

1770
02:36:40,920 --> 02:36:46,520
It's been compatible with ranching since the late 1800s when both of these uses were

1771
02:36:46,520 --> 02:36:50,720
existing compatibly together in this location and have been ever since then.

1772
02:36:51,200 --> 02:36:55,440
If there is a recent change, it's really that this area has become slightly more

1773
02:36:55,440 --> 02:37:00,400
residential with additional folks choosing to make this area their home as well as an

1774
02:37:00,400 --> 02:37:04,460
area for ranching and mining and other similar resource extraction operations.

1775
02:37:08,460 --> 02:37:09,960
Next criterion is privacy.

1776
02:37:10,440 --> 02:37:15,200
This is a similar analysis to views and I won't repeat what we've already said other

1777
02:37:15,200 --> 02:37:19,440
than to note that the mine operation itself has virtually no impact on the privacy of

1778
02:37:19,440 --> 02:37:21,120
any individual property owners.

1779
02:37:21,300 --> 02:37:22,600
It's not visible from their property.

1780
02:37:22,780 --> 02:37:23,400
They can't see it.

1781
02:37:23,420 --> 02:37:24,180
They can't hear it.

1782
02:37:24,180 --> 02:37:29,620
And we've already talked about the mitigation measures that are proposed to address any concerns

1783
02:37:29,620 --> 02:37:34,360
about privacy resulting from the use of County Road 120 North as the principal haul road

1784
02:37:34,360 --> 02:37:35,240
for the truck traffic.

1785
02:37:38,200 --> 02:37:43,160
In conclusion, we believe that we have demonstrated and the expert reports conclusively demonstrate

1786
02:37:43,160 --> 02:37:48,280
that all of these criteria are met and that the application meets the requirements

1787
02:37:48,280 --> 02:37:49,900
for a Class II land use permit.

1788
02:37:50,740 --> 02:37:59,260
In addition, mitigation is an appropriate measure for furthering compatibility and for determining whether or not these criteria are met.

1789
02:37:59,700 --> 02:38:06,740
And we'd like to spend some time highlighting some of the mitigation measures that have already been undertaken and are currently ongoing by GCC,

1790
02:38:07,280 --> 02:38:13,420
as well as the additional mitigation that will be engaged in as conditions of approval if this permit is approved.

1791
02:38:13,820 --> 02:38:16,780
And to do that, I will hand the microphone back over to Trent Peterson.

1792
02:38:16,780 --> 02:38:17,160
Thank

1793
02:38:34,560 --> 02:38:35,460
you.

1794
02:38:40,560 --> 02:38:45,900
Over the last several years, and a number of them just in the last year or two, there

1795
02:38:45,900 --> 02:38:51,880
have been a number of mitigation measures already completed at the response to the commuter.

1796
02:38:53,960 --> 02:38:58,700
We've committed not to develop groundwater wells, as it was stated earlier, in response

1797
02:38:58,700 --> 02:39:01,220
to a concern about potential groundwater depletion.

1798
02:39:02,580 --> 02:39:07,820
Reduce truck speeds to 10 miles per hour in front of key residences on unpaved sections

1799
02:39:07,820 --> 02:39:09,200
of the road to further meeting.

1800
02:39:19,230 --> 02:39:23,510
That's a limitation which we intend to keep in place

1801
02:39:23,510 --> 02:39:24,870
over the long term.

1802
02:39:25,890 --> 02:39:28,830
Several years ago prohibited the use of Jake Breaks

1803
02:39:28,830 --> 02:39:30,190
on County Road 120.

1804
02:39:31,030 --> 02:39:34,330
Just over a year ago stopped all coal hauling on Sundays,

1805
02:39:34,410 --> 02:39:38,670
and I think it's important to point out there that the average

1806
02:39:38,670 --> 02:39:42,170
daily truck trips or truck loads that Daniel Murray presented

1807
02:39:42,170 --> 02:39:44,810
earlier were based on seven-day hauling.

1808
02:39:44,810 --> 02:40:00,190
So in terms of scale, the largest volume in 2014 is comparable to the 120 truck per day average that were contemplating in the long term.

1809
02:40:03,360 --> 02:40:11,780
Adopted written policies on truck speed and use of the road, conduct speed monitoring and management, conduct in-person training,

1810
02:40:13,440 --> 02:40:16,440
Required numbers on trucks for rapid identification.

1811
02:40:18,420 --> 02:40:21,920
Installed a direct dial hotline for people to report concerns.

1812
02:40:22,360 --> 02:40:25,620
Since it was installed, there have been 25 calls received,

1813
02:40:25,880 --> 02:40:29,880
seven of those from residents, 18 from GCC employees,

1814
02:40:30,100 --> 02:40:31,500
or from other truck drivers.

1815
02:40:32,060 --> 02:40:33,760
All of those calls were followed up on.

1816
02:40:36,900 --> 02:40:41,020
Installed trucks entering highway signs on County Road 140.

1817
02:40:41,020 --> 02:40:49,500
140, reduced posted speed limits, installed a fan silencing device on the ventilation fan

1818
02:40:49,500 --> 02:40:49,940
at the mine.

1819
02:40:50,040 --> 02:40:53,720
And I understand you were able to see that during the tour from the mezzanine on the

1820
02:40:53,720 --> 02:40:56,960
east side of the main building, second floor,

1821
02:40:59,700 --> 02:41:01,560
completed the extension of the big stick

1822
02:41:01,560 --> 02:41:08,520
ditch culvert last year, widened the pavement at the 90 degree corner going in.

1823
02:41:09,000 --> 02:41:11,620
This was on the first stop of your tour two weeks ago.

1824
02:41:11,620 --> 02:41:17,060
the cars that the area where you parked would have actually been the truck

1825
02:41:17,060 --> 02:41:18,980
lane for the incoming trucks.

1826
02:41:22,460 --> 02:41:25,120
I agreed not to stage trucks at the 120-140

1827
02:41:25,120 --> 02:41:30,480
intersection, expanded the holding area at the mine, adopted a section of County

1828
02:41:30,480 --> 02:41:33,540
Road 120 and suspended trucking during snow events.

1829
02:41:35,980 --> 02:41:37,220
We've been watering the road

1830
02:41:37,220 --> 02:41:43,480
up to four times a day to suppress dust, trim foliage to improve site

1831
02:41:43,480 --> 02:41:49,960
distance and several other mitigation measures here since 2015.

1832
02:41:55,420 --> 02:42:03,340
Beginning now, this summer there will be new flashing warning signs installed, no increase

1833
02:42:03,340 --> 02:42:09,760
in the 80 truck limit until the road is paved, and several ongoing mitigation measures.

1834
02:42:18,350 --> 02:42:22,630
I want to emphasize that GCC is a responsible part of the community.

1835
02:42:23,690 --> 02:42:28,090
It's our mission to operate at the highest levels of safety and integrity, provide jobs

1836
02:42:28,090 --> 02:42:30,450
to employees and economic benefits to the county.

1837
02:42:31,170 --> 02:42:35,190
As I mentioned earlier, we have an excellent safety record.

1838
02:42:35,870 --> 02:42:40,170
We've worked cooperatively with the county and the neighbors and paid experts to analyze

1839
02:42:40,170 --> 02:42:45,870
a number of areas of concern and put a number of mitigation measures in place already.

1840
02:42:45,870 --> 02:42:46,910
In

1841
02:42:52,440 --> 02:43:01,560
addition to approximately $390,000 in county taxes paid in 2014, about half of the

1842
02:43:01,560 --> 02:43:05,640
$3.5 million in coal royalties has come back to the state of Colorado.

1843
02:43:06,460 --> 02:43:08,160
The bulk of that goes to the public schools.

1844
02:43:08,340 --> 02:43:09,880
A portion of it will go to the county.

1845
02:43:16,060 --> 02:43:21,460
In addition, we spend about $20 million a year on transportation services locally

1846
02:43:21,460 --> 02:43:24,880
and about a million dollars a year to pay the low plot of electric.

1847
02:43:26,240 --> 02:43:29,100
We've focused on truck traffic so far and truck counts,

1848
02:43:29,440 --> 02:43:32,760
but I think there's a really important nexus to point out here

1849
02:43:32,760 --> 02:43:35,860
that we're not just talking about trucks, we're talking about jobs.

1850
02:43:36,680 --> 02:43:41,360
And there's a pretty clear equivalency that one truck per day equals about three jobs.

1851
02:43:41,880 --> 02:43:45,860
One employee, one truck driver, one indirect community jobs.

1852
02:43:47,420 --> 02:43:53,600
That basic number of 80 trucks per day is what's required to pay for road improvements

1853
02:43:53,600 --> 02:43:55,400
and continue to operate the mine.

1854
02:44:17,350 --> 02:44:23,030
In conclusion, we would just like to note that this application does meet all of the

1855
02:44:23,030 --> 02:44:25,250
county requirements for a Class II land use permit.

1856
02:44:25,650 --> 02:44:31,670
If this application is approved, all of these bulleted items on this slide will

1857
02:44:31,670 --> 02:44:36,930
occur, $10 million in new road improvements, ongoing maintenance fee, permanent cap on

1858
02:44:36,930 --> 02:44:41,770
the truck numbers. We believe we have demonstrated that all of the criteria are met, and we ask

1859
02:44:41,770 --> 02:44:47,770
for your favorable approval of the Class II land use permit. As a matter of just process,

1860
02:44:47,930 --> 02:44:52,870
I would also like to request that if the Board of County Commissioners considers imposing

1861
02:44:52,870 --> 02:44:57,250
additional conditions of approval beyond those which were addressed in the staff report,

1862
02:44:57,250 --> 02:44:59,970
we request the opportunity to address them later at that time.

1863
02:45:00,460 --> 02:45:02,380
Thank you for your time and attention today.

1864
02:45:09,370 --> 02:45:11,630
Thank you. Thank you for your presentation.

1865
02:45:13,230 --> 02:45:14,190
Commissioner's questions.

1866
02:45:24,470 --> 02:45:25,010
Thank you.

1867
02:45:26,170 --> 02:45:28,870
I have a couple of questions.

1868
02:45:29,510 --> 02:45:35,850
One is related to some, there were a couple of things that were supposed to have happened by today,

1869
02:45:36,050 --> 02:45:38,890
and I was doing a check in to see if they happened.

1870
02:45:39,250 --> 02:45:45,270
One, I believe, had to do with design, designs being given to CDOT.

1871
02:45:45,270 --> 02:45:50,930
and I think that's related to the 140 County Route 120 intersection.

1872
02:45:51,470 --> 02:45:53,110
Can anybody talk about that?

1873
02:45:53,830 --> 02:45:57,610
Commissioner, Mr. Chairman, if I may, what we'll do is I'll just try to field them

1874
02:45:57,610 --> 02:45:59,570
and get the right person to answer your question.

1875
02:45:59,990 --> 02:46:01,310
The short answer to that is yes.

1876
02:46:01,570 --> 02:46:04,670
All of the things that were required to have happened by today have happened.

1877
02:46:05,070 --> 02:46:10,050
Specifically, as to the CDOT permit question, I would like to ask Mr. Olson to answer that.

1878
02:46:12,520 --> 02:46:15,040
Michael Olsen with Rotor Engineering.

1879
02:46:15,860 --> 02:46:19,860
Now we're currently, they have not the final plans for review.

1880
02:46:20,180 --> 02:46:21,480
We're working with CDOT right now.

1881
02:46:21,680 --> 02:46:25,280
We're addressing environmental to make sure that there's some compliance.

1882
02:46:27,040 --> 02:46:29,260
This is part of interim process.

1883
02:46:29,700 --> 02:46:34,220
When they go through it, we're working through the month of June to make that happen.

1884
02:46:34,440 --> 02:46:39,360
So we had tentatively set up a date of June 1st to have everything in there,

1885
02:46:39,420 --> 02:46:41,700
but we are working with CDOT right now.

1886
02:46:41,700 --> 02:46:52,160
And with the access permit, it has a termination date of July 4th, I think, and that was part

1887
02:46:52,160 --> 02:46:55,880
of working with CDOT as they comply with everything that they were requesting.

1888
02:46:56,380 --> 02:46:58,680
So it's not a black and white.

1889
02:46:58,860 --> 02:47:00,580
When you're working with CDOT, it's not black and white.

1890
02:47:00,840 --> 02:47:06,200
So you go through and you give them information, and they come back, and so we are on

1891
02:47:06,200 --> 02:47:10,600
task for meeting the requirements of the access permit.

1892
02:47:11,880 --> 02:47:12,840
Okay, thank you.

1893
02:47:16,100 --> 02:47:19,220
I'll ask you, Mr. Olson, you might be the best person to answer.

1894
02:47:19,980 --> 02:47:29,300
With respect to where the conceptual plans are for the roadway, road improvements, why

1895
02:47:29,300 --> 02:47:36,780
it's going to require – we talked a little bit earlier about what a condemnation procedure

1896
02:47:36,780 --> 02:47:42,040
would look like but I think from my perspective it's more it's really right

1897
02:47:42,040 --> 02:47:47,200
of way acquisition is the first step and we would be looking at right of way

1898
02:47:47,200 --> 02:47:53,740
acquisition because the road would be widened pretty much its entire length and

1899
02:47:53,740 --> 02:47:58,940
in some places extra widened so to speak I think to accommodate curves and

1900
02:47:58,940 --> 02:48:04,680
other concert considerations is that a fair statement what I just said being

1901
02:48:04,680 --> 02:48:12,860
clarify what your currently the county is set up for a 60-foot right away and the

1902
02:48:12,860 --> 02:48:18,900
way that the Canada Road 120 North is set up is that it's it's prescriptive

1903
02:48:18,900 --> 02:48:24,600
use which means that there is not necessarily a document that says this

1904
02:48:24,600 --> 02:48:29,760
is the right of way of the road but it is in effect is from fence line to

1905
02:48:29,760 --> 02:48:38,140
line. And a significant portion of the existing road has 60 feet, and it's the

1906
02:48:38,140 --> 02:48:42,960
intent that we would try to keep the alignment on the final alignment as

1907
02:48:42,960 --> 02:48:49,660
close to the existing line as we can. There will be areas of which that the

1908
02:48:49,660 --> 02:48:54,740
alignment will require, the design will require some acquisition of additional

1909
02:48:56,660 --> 02:49:01,420
That being said, it's not intended that a full parcel, unless it's deemed that the parcel

1910
02:49:01,420 --> 02:49:05,560
is no longer usable, but it's intended that slivers will be acquired.

1911
02:49:06,940 --> 02:49:14,360
As with that, GCC for just being sort of simplified, GCC is going to pay the bill.

1912
02:49:14,980 --> 02:49:16,200
The county is going to go ahead.

1913
02:49:16,460 --> 02:49:20,440
Any type of right-of-way that's acquired or any type of documentation will be in effect

1914
02:49:20,440 --> 02:49:21,120
for the county.

1915
02:49:21,120 --> 02:49:24,660
It'll be a GCC will be in effect working as an agent for the county.

1916
02:49:25,240 --> 02:49:30,740
So the intent being is when we finally get this done is that what currently have maybe

1917
02:49:30,740 --> 02:49:34,760
700 feet of right of way actually designated right of way out there for six half miles,

1918
02:49:35,280 --> 02:49:40,980
it's intended that the county will have documentation that supports the right of

1919
02:49:40,980 --> 02:49:47,040
way, whether it be permanent easement or an actual right of way fee deed for that

1920
02:49:47,040 --> 02:49:48,280
full six and a half miles.

1921
02:49:48,800 --> 02:49:50,300
Does that sort of answer your question there?

1922
02:49:52,240 --> 02:50:14,480
Yeah, I mean, that's, I think you clarified the topic. What is, is there any room and you might not be the right person for this answer, but certainly at least two of the locations specific to the residences along the road that would be affected by this.

1923
02:50:14,480 --> 02:50:22,500
The proximity of the road as it exists now to those residents certainly complicates things,

1924
02:50:23,900 --> 02:50:28,060
aggravates, exacerbates negative impacts whether it's the dust or the noise.

1925
02:50:29,020 --> 02:50:36,620
Based on what you've done, is there anything that makes you think that it would be possible

1926
02:50:36,620 --> 02:50:42,580
to have the new alignment even 20 feet further away from those residences?

1927
02:50:42,580 --> 02:50:51,680
This is Mike Olson again, and what I can say now that the alignment won't be any closer

1928
02:50:52,120 --> 02:50:53,120
that currently exists.

1929
02:50:55,380 --> 02:51:03,060
There is part of the next phase of analysis, specifically at the end of the asphalt, starting

1930
02:51:03,060 --> 02:51:09,300
at the aggregate section of the roadway, is intended to evaluate an alternate alignment

1931
02:51:09,300 --> 02:51:17,700
in that vicinity to improve the distance, the separation between the parcel owner along

1932
02:51:17,700 --> 02:51:22,380
with improve the geometry or the alignment, vertical alignment of the road going up to

1933
02:51:22,380 --> 02:51:23,220
Robert's Ridge.

1934
02:51:23,820 --> 02:51:28,620
That will be part of the evaluation that's creating a set of preliminary plans.

1935
02:51:30,180 --> 02:51:35,920
The other residents that's west of that location is difficult because you've got

1936
02:51:35,920 --> 02:51:42,980
a total slope that's right there adjacent. So it's anticipated that the actual alignment

1937
02:51:42,980 --> 02:51:50,540
will be no closer than it currently is, but to incorporate it's probably going to get

1938
02:51:50,540 --> 02:51:52,060
into the hillside just a little bit there.

1939
02:51:53,040 --> 02:51:57,460
And then with respect to the Roberts Ridge vertical alignment, I don't know what that

1940
02:51:57,460 --> 02:51:57,700
means.

1941
02:51:58,440 --> 02:52:02,220
I'm sorry. What it means is they have a steep driveway.

1942
02:52:02,540 --> 02:52:02,920
I noticed.

1943
02:52:02,920 --> 02:52:12,500
And they have very limited landing room when you come down the off the hill and so by evaluating

1944
02:52:12,500 --> 02:52:18,940
an alternate where you move the alignment of the canyon road to the south that might

1945
02:52:18,940 --> 02:52:22,900
provide additional landing zone for them to come down off the hill.

1946
02:52:23,220 --> 02:52:24,060
Thank you.

1947
02:52:24,320 --> 02:52:28,540
That was another aspect of my question you got to before I did.

1948
02:52:30,740 --> 02:52:32,960
I think that's it for my questions for you.

1949
02:52:33,020 --> 02:52:34,900
I did have a question for your sound person.

1950
02:52:36,620 --> 02:52:38,800
And this is a technical question.

1951
02:52:38,920 --> 02:52:40,580
I don't remember who the sound person was.

1952
02:52:40,900 --> 02:52:42,420
Okay, you're going to have to come up to my closer.

1953
02:52:42,420 --> 02:52:44,240
Rufkov-Kolsky, Wave Engineering, we'll bring him up.

1954
02:52:44,780 --> 02:52:45,320
Thank you.

1955
02:52:53,230 --> 02:52:56,530
You heard my question earlier about the appropriate standard

1956
02:52:56,530 --> 02:52:57,950
for deciding compatibility.

1957
02:52:57,950 --> 02:53:08,930
And I'd need clarification, the 86 decibels that are contemplated in this TAF report versus

1958
02:53:08,930 --> 02:53:21,130
the 50 that is the HUD standard, is the 86 an instant sound measurement or is it the average?

1959
02:53:21,250 --> 02:53:25,830
It appeared to me in reading the information that the HUD standard is an average over,

1960
02:53:25,830 --> 02:53:33,190
I believe daylight or possibly over a period of hours and is the 86 also an

1961
02:53:33,190 --> 02:53:40,110
average over a period of hours? Commissioner Chairman Jeff Kolkowski,

1962
02:53:40,310 --> 02:53:47,570
Wave Engineering, 1100 West Littleton Boulevard number 420, Littleton, Colorado

1963
02:53:51,890 --> 02:53:58,990
The 86 DBA standard that is in the state statute is essentially an instantaneous value that

1964
02:53:58,990 --> 02:54:04,390
would be measured 50 feet from the center line of the road as the vehicle passes by.

1965
02:54:04,990 --> 02:54:07,690
So it's a very short duration standard.

1966
02:54:08,990 --> 02:54:19,770
You've alluded to some research where you had seen that that was roughly about the same as where you might get hearing damage or something.

1967
02:54:20,770 --> 02:54:30,110
And that comes from OSHA, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration, has regulations on occupational noise.

1968
02:54:30,690 --> 02:54:34,810
And their threshold is 85 DBA or decibels.

1969
02:54:36,490 --> 02:54:39,430
But that is an eight-hour time-weighted average.

1970
02:54:39,690 --> 02:54:42,850
So that's the noise exposure of an employee over an eight-hour shift.

1971
02:54:44,170 --> 02:54:48,270
And that is just the point at which they begin to look at mitigation

1972
02:54:48,270 --> 02:54:50,990
or hearing conservation program or things like that.

1973
02:54:51,030 --> 02:54:54,750
That's not necessarily where hearing damage automatically occurs.

1974
02:54:56,050 --> 02:55:00,030
So the 86 DBA level is a very short-term level.

1975
02:55:00,130 --> 02:55:03,090
So it's far from any kind of hearing damage threshold.

1976
02:55:03,090 --> 02:55:13,930
And just to let you know, we measured during our study quite a few truck passbys along the road at distances of 50 feet from the center line.

1977
02:55:14,990 --> 02:55:19,090
We did not measure any trucks that were over 80 DBA.

1978
02:55:19,950 --> 02:55:24,350
So that is the state statute limit.

1979
02:55:25,330 --> 02:55:27,850
The majority of the trucks are already well below that.

1980
02:55:45,100 --> 02:55:46,720
Do you want my trusty mic?

1981
02:55:46,720 --> 02:55:47,820
What

1982
02:55:50,060 --> 02:55:53,940
speed were those trucks moving at approximately?

1983
02:55:54,100 --> 02:56:01,280
Was it before the rule to slow down really a lot in front of those houses,

1984
02:56:01,440 --> 02:56:03,400
or was it when they were maintaining regular speeds?

1985
02:56:04,280 --> 02:56:07,560
We measured under a variety of conditions.

1986
02:56:07,760 --> 02:56:11,420
So we measured along both the paved and the gravel portions of the road.

1987
02:56:11,420 --> 02:56:21,000
We measured on the paved road where the trucks were going at the posted speed limit,

1988
02:56:21,020 --> 02:56:25,690
which was already less than the limit for cars on the same road.

1989
02:56:26,360 --> 02:56:30,920
So it was at the limits as they are now and as they would be going forward.

1990
02:56:31,360 --> 02:56:37,740
On the gravel road, we measured both near homes where the trucks were under the voluntary limit,

1991
02:56:37,740 --> 02:56:44,460
of GCC's voluntary limit of 10 miles an hour near the homes, but we also measured at other

1992
02:56:44,460 --> 02:56:50,880
portions of the gravel road away from the homes where the truck limit was 25 miles an

1993
02:56:50,880 --> 02:56:51,080
hour.

1994
02:56:51,380 --> 02:56:53,200
So we measured under a variety of conditions.

1995
02:56:56,820 --> 02:57:00,700
And did you measure any non-cold truck traffic?

1996
02:57:01,420 --> 02:57:01,800
Yes.

1997
02:57:02,220 --> 02:57:03,780
And what did you find with that?

1998
02:57:04,520 --> 02:57:14,420
We found that many times the non-cold truck traffic, which might be an individual's passenger

1999
02:57:14,420 --> 02:57:20,440
vehicle, it might be a pickup truck, a private pickup truck, or a commercial pickup truck

2000
02:57:20,440 --> 02:57:26,380
or things, many times those sound levels are the same as or louder than the trucks

2001
02:57:26,380 --> 02:57:28,440
just because they're going at much higher speeds.

2002
02:57:28,440 --> 02:57:40,540
So on the 35 mile an hour, or on the paved road, you know, they might be going 45 or 50 miles an hour, whereas the trucks are maintaining the 30 or 35 miles an hour limit.

2003
02:57:41,380 --> 02:57:51,840
Okay, thank you. I have one other question, I think, for this witness, but can you, I think it was, no, it wasn't you, it was the air quality person. You're okay.

2004
02:57:51,840 --> 02:57:52,060
Okay.

2005
02:57:53,060 --> 02:57:54,820
Do you guys have any questions for the term?

2006
02:57:56,340 --> 02:57:57,800
Oh, just questions in general.

2007
02:57:58,200 --> 02:57:58,660
Oh, okay.

2008
02:57:58,860 --> 02:57:59,280
No, I didn't.

2009
02:57:59,500 --> 02:58:00,240
I was going to let him.

2010
02:58:00,980 --> 02:58:02,480
You don't need him anymore?

2011
02:58:03,320 --> 02:58:03,720
Okay.

2012
02:58:04,980 --> 02:58:07,020
And then you have an air quality person?

2013
02:58:07,100 --> 02:58:07,540
Is that correct?

2014
02:58:07,840 --> 02:58:09,180
Yes, let me ask him to come to the table.

2015
02:58:18,660 --> 02:58:19,400
Thank you, Commissioner.

2016
02:58:19,640 --> 02:58:20,860
My name is Vanit Masraha.

2017
02:58:23,570 --> 02:58:23,770
Of course.

2018
02:58:23,850 --> 02:58:25,910
Yeah, it's a V-I-N-W-E-T.

2019
02:58:26,630 --> 02:58:30,230
And last name is M-A-S-U-R-A-H-A.

2020
02:58:30,230 --> 02:58:38,650
And I help on the air quality side, and I live in Irvine, California, 3306, Crescent Way.

2021
02:58:40,630 --> 02:58:47,190
Okay, thank you. You did the air quality monitoring, I think, report for GCC.

2022
02:58:47,890 --> 02:58:52,650
And there was a different air quality outcome or evaluation.

2023
02:58:55,090 --> 02:58:57,750
And I don't recall the name of the person who did that.

2024
02:58:57,830 --> 02:59:00,610
Are you familiar with it? I think it was from November of 2015 perhaps.

2025
02:59:00,610 --> 02:59:07,550
Do you familiar with kind of a review of your report and that came to different conclusions

2026
02:59:07,550 --> 02:59:08,690
and could you talk about that?

2027
02:59:09,110 --> 02:59:17,890
Yeah, I reviewed all three reports put together by the MMA which also studied the air quality

2028
02:59:18,490 --> 02:59:24,890
and just to clarify it's not air quality monitoring, it's air quality modeling which

2029
02:59:24,890 --> 02:59:28,410
which is used using EUS EPA, Stabilize Method,

2030
02:59:28,650 --> 02:59:32,730
and both experts have used similar methods.

2031
02:59:32,790 --> 02:59:35,670
It's just the inputs, which were a little bit different,

2032
02:59:36,610 --> 02:59:40,710
and that led to, in my review,

2033
02:59:40,810 --> 02:59:43,030
which I have identified on May 13th,

2034
02:59:43,030 --> 02:59:46,630
why I believe their review simply overestimated

2035
02:59:46,630 --> 02:59:49,970
a lot of PM10 emission,

2036
02:59:50,190 --> 02:59:53,370
which are, I guess, modeled for 24-hour

2037
02:59:53,370 --> 02:59:56,690
averaging period in my report as well as in their report too.

2038
03:00:01,900 --> 03:00:07,960
You came to different conclusions. Can you explain why your conclusions were different from theirs?

2039
03:00:08,440 --> 03:00:15,360
Yeah, definitely. I'm not sure if my May 13th report is part of your binder or not.

2040
03:00:16,660 --> 03:00:18,600
It is, and I'll tell you the number in just a second.

2041
03:00:19,040 --> 03:00:27,080
Okay, but I kind of actually answered the question there, but the big thing is in any of EPA method,

2042
03:00:28,640 --> 03:00:33,120
There's one method which is kind of a method used by everybody.

2043
03:00:33,220 --> 03:00:34,760
It's known as AP42.

2044
03:00:35,460 --> 03:00:37,780
And AP42 uses many variables.

2045
03:00:38,000 --> 03:00:41,520
One of the key variables there is the silt content.

2046
03:00:41,700 --> 03:00:45,080
How much is the silt in the unpaved road

2047
03:00:45,080 --> 03:00:48,140
which can get knocked around by the dust moving on the road.

2048
03:00:48,740 --> 03:00:51,180
And higher the silt content,

2049
03:00:51,300 --> 03:00:53,640
definitely the higher the PM10 emission would be.

2050
03:00:53,640 --> 03:00:57,640
And it happens to be, as I identified in my May 13th report,

2051
03:00:58,240 --> 03:00:59,540
the emissions are so high,

2052
03:00:59,680 --> 03:01:02,600
if you just look at the quantification of what they have done,

2053
03:01:03,060 --> 03:01:04,360
the other experts have done it.

2054
03:01:04,480 --> 03:01:08,200
It comes out to be around 600 tons per year of PM10 emission.

2055
03:01:08,920 --> 03:01:11,040
And I work with a lot of industrial facilities.

2056
03:01:11,360 --> 03:01:14,420
I've done work with close to 20 years of building power plants,

2057
03:01:14,600 --> 03:01:17,240
cement plant, coal mining, and all sort of mining.

2058
03:01:17,760 --> 03:01:20,160
I've never seen a four-mile stretch

2059
03:01:20,160 --> 03:01:23,700
of which is kind of not truly an unpaid road.

2060
03:01:23,860 --> 03:01:26,780
It's actually a gravel road, a semi-gravel road

2061
03:01:27,350 --> 03:01:29,660
which creates 500 tons of dust.

2062
03:01:30,380 --> 03:01:32,500
If this would have been true,

2063
03:01:32,640 --> 03:01:36,900
this would have been a very large source of PM penemission

2064
03:01:36,900 --> 03:01:40,780
and CDPHE would have been very worried about all this.

2065
03:01:40,840 --> 03:01:42,060
This would have been a major source.

2066
03:01:42,580 --> 03:01:43,980
This mine is not a major source.

2067
03:01:44,100 --> 03:01:47,340
This is a minor source and 600 tons of emission.

2068
03:01:47,560 --> 03:01:49,100
If you just put that in contest,

2069
03:01:49,100 --> 03:01:56,220
that would have required approximately 1 to 2 trucks you would have to haul every month.

2070
03:01:56,620 --> 03:02:00,620
If you assume all that dust can be captured and then you put it in a truck,

2071
03:02:00,940 --> 03:02:07,160
you would be hauling close to 2 trucks a month to haul that dust which has been overestimated by the other expert.

2072
03:02:07,880 --> 03:02:12,420
And this road probably by this time would have not even existed if that those numbers are true.

2073
03:02:12,420 --> 03:02:22,440
And remember, GCC also puts a lot of water here that water usually, you know, doubles the moisture content as I put in my report as well.

2074
03:02:22,840 --> 03:02:31,240
If you put approximately, you know, they are putting around 0.3 gallon per square yard much of water there.

2075
03:02:31,580 --> 03:02:35,420
If you apply that much water, that basically doubles the moisture content.

2076
03:02:35,420 --> 03:02:40,840
double the moisture content that approximately equates to 75% to 80% control.

2077
03:02:41,820 --> 03:02:47,020
And remember, if you paved the road, that's approximately 95% to 99% control.

2078
03:02:47,560 --> 03:02:51,480
That's why I believe the other expert has overestimated the emission.

2079
03:02:52,240 --> 03:02:58,200
And also I want to point out, for my work with Trinity Consultants, we actually developed

2080
03:02:58,200 --> 03:03:00,440
a model for EPA back in 40 years back.

2081
03:03:00,440 --> 03:03:06,580
So I'm very familiar with how EPA has developed the model as well as not only in Colorado.

2082
03:03:06,820 --> 03:03:09,660
We work all around the country with all the different minds.

2083
03:03:09,660 --> 03:03:15,100
As I said, simply based on my review of all the expert report put together by the MMA,

2084
03:03:15,460 --> 03:03:19,780
it's a way, way overestimate all the PM10 emission and therefore the impacts.

2085
03:03:20,920 --> 03:03:24,220
And the May 13th report that Mr. Masarov has written,

2086
03:03:28,420 --> 03:03:34,320
That's exhibit number 69 in your packet is the May 13, 2016 supplemental expert report

2087
03:03:34,320 --> 03:03:35,380
from Mr. Masaraha.

2088
03:03:36,960 --> 03:03:43,940
And one more thing I'd like to point out, when I hear the dust and in a couple of last

2089
03:03:43,940 --> 03:03:48,480
hearing I've seen people bringing the pictures of the dust, you know, knocked by the trucks.

2090
03:03:49,180 --> 03:03:54,220
I just want to point out the PM10 standard, what EPA has established for PM10.

2091
03:03:54,220 --> 03:03:56,200
and it's a 24-hour average standard.

2092
03:03:57,020 --> 03:03:59,640
So you could see a dust right away,

2093
03:03:59,760 --> 03:04:01,520
but that necessarily doesn't mean

2094
03:04:01,520 --> 03:04:04,900
that it will cause the violation of the EPA standard.

2095
03:04:05,080 --> 03:04:07,040
It has to be similar level of dust,

2096
03:04:07,220 --> 03:04:10,220
has to exist for 24 hours in order for somebody

2097
03:04:10,220 --> 03:04:13,420
to feel some sort of primary or secondary

2098
03:04:13,420 --> 03:04:14,760
health-related impact.

2099
03:04:15,200 --> 03:04:17,300
And there are reasons why EPA has established

2100
03:04:17,300 --> 03:04:19,300
that 24-hour averaging period.

2101
03:04:19,740 --> 03:04:22,600
And I kind of a little bit outline the history

2102
03:04:22,600 --> 03:04:26,920
of why EPA has never changed the 24-hour averaging period.

2103
03:04:27,420 --> 03:04:31,980
There are several pollutants for which EPA has established the shorter averaging period,

2104
03:04:32,040 --> 03:04:38,600
such as one hour and three hour, but for PM10, after close to 60 years' worth of history

2105
03:04:38,600 --> 03:04:44,240
and research, EPA still uses 24-hour averaging period for PM10.

2106
03:04:45,000 --> 03:04:46,120
Thank you very much.

2107
03:04:47,830 --> 03:04:48,350
Thank you.

2108
03:04:51,190 --> 03:04:53,550
Mr. Chair, I do have a number of questions.

2109
03:04:53,550 --> 03:04:56,710
I want to know for the record it is a little afternoon.

2110
03:04:57,110 --> 03:05:01,890
I'm not sure if we want to take our break now and resume questions after the public comment

2111
03:05:01,890 --> 03:05:05,790
period or how, what is the pleasure of the board?

2112
03:05:15,310 --> 03:05:15,590
Okay.

2113
03:05:17,770 --> 03:05:18,150
Okay.

2114
03:05:20,010 --> 03:05:22,650
Thank you very much for your presentation.

2115
03:05:23,470 --> 03:05:30,810
I don't believe we established for the record the address of GCC and where GCC is based

2116
03:05:30,810 --> 03:05:32,230
and what GCC stands for.

2117
03:05:32,230 --> 03:05:37,310
I'm going to ask Trent to do that as it relates to GCC.

2118
03:05:42,740 --> 03:05:46,500
GCC is an acronym for Grupo Cementos de Chihuahua.

2119
03:05:47,540 --> 03:05:51,900
Grupo Cementos de Chihuahua was founded in Chihuahua, Mexico in 1941.

2120
03:05:52,540 --> 03:05:55,600
It first did business in the United States in 1994.

2121
03:05:56,520 --> 03:06:00,160
Currently the U.S. Division covers a number of states,

2122
03:06:00,600 --> 03:06:03,500
Central Rockies states as well as Midwestern states.

2123
03:06:03,500 --> 03:06:13,500
States. The U.S. Division headquarters for GCC of America is at 600 South Cherry Street,

2124
03:06:14,120 --> 03:06:17,700
Glendale, Colorado, 80246, I believe.

2125
03:06:19,940 --> 03:06:28,380
Locally, GCC Energy was formed in 2004 when GCC bought

2126
03:06:28,380 --> 03:06:37,560
the assets of the National King coal mine. GCC's local address is 6473 County Road 120

2127
03:06:38,100 --> 03:06:40,340
Hesperus, Colorado, 81326.

2128
03:06:41,860 --> 03:06:48,360
Thank you very much. And I guess I'll follow on to that. Regarding the enforcement question

2129
03:06:48,360 --> 03:06:55,900
and our concern about enforcement and the fact that GCC is based in Mexico, do the

2130
03:06:55,900 --> 03:07:01,140
The local officials of the company have the authority to act on the company's behalf

2131
03:07:01,140 --> 03:07:06,640
or is this a chain of command that would take some time because we'd have to get a

2132
03:07:06,640 --> 03:07:10,080
response from Mexico to Denver to Hesperus?

2133
03:07:12,220 --> 03:07:15,620
Local officials have the authority to act on GCC's behalf.

2134
03:07:16,300 --> 03:07:17,440
Thank you very much.

2135
03:07:17,680 --> 03:07:22,380
And the U.S. division is a U.S. company licensed to do business in the United States.

2136
03:07:22,680 --> 03:07:22,960
Okay.

2137
03:07:23,280 --> 03:07:23,700
Thank you.

2138
03:07:32,860 --> 03:07:44,620
Regarding the truck drivers, are the truck drivers GCC employees or is the company a subcontractor to GCC?

2139
03:07:44,960 --> 03:07:47,680
Is that a separate entity altogether?

2140
03:07:49,200 --> 03:07:50,180
This is Trent Peterson.

2141
03:07:52,300 --> 03:07:55,560
GCC does not employ any truck drivers of its own.

2142
03:07:55,740 --> 03:08:00,700
All truck driving is contracted out either by us or by our customers.

2143
03:08:02,060 --> 03:08:13,840
Okay. And because some of the truck traffic is one of our major issues with GCC, describe

2144
03:08:13,840 --> 03:08:20,920
the nature of your contract and the ability for you to be able to enforce the provisions

2145
03:08:20,920 --> 03:08:24,380
of this permit with your subcontractor.

2146
03:08:26,530 --> 03:08:28,670
We're able to enforce the provisions of

2147
03:08:28,670 --> 03:08:35,310
this permit by establishing local policies that govern the operation of trucks on our

2148
03:08:35,310 --> 03:08:41,370
property or on the highways, similar to the way we would enforce policy on our own employees.

2149
03:08:44,990 --> 03:08:49,790
And I would add to that that you can see that already occurring, because many of the existing

2150
03:08:49,790 --> 03:08:54,770
mitigation measures involve the operation of the trucks, such as reduced speed limits

2151
03:08:54,770 --> 03:09:01,770
and you know the 1-800 number and so on and all of those have been policies

2152
03:09:01,770 --> 03:09:05,870
adopted by GCC with which the truck companies are required to comply and

2153
03:09:05,870 --> 03:09:12,970
they have done so. Okay thank you. In the event that there's an accident on

2154
03:09:12,970 --> 03:09:19,830
County Road 120 North and the road is closed for an accident or some other

2155
03:09:19,830 --> 03:09:27,450
purpose, even construction, you stated that you hope to begin phase one as early as the

2156
03:09:27,450 --> 03:09:28,250
first of June.

2157
03:09:30,270 --> 03:09:38,790
Would you re-route traffic in that event or would you cease truck hauling until the road

2158
03:09:38,790 --> 03:09:43,130
was reopened and would you have to seek an exception to the permit?

2159
03:09:43,130 --> 03:09:44,230
There

2160
03:09:47,780 --> 03:09:52,660
is currently a condition of approval that says that any routing of truck traffic

2161
03:09:52,660 --> 03:09:58,060
on anything other than County Road 120 North would require the approval of County Public

2162
03:09:58,060 --> 03:10:02,780
Works and essentially not going to happen.

2163
03:10:05,860 --> 03:10:10,300
I think also a related partial answer to your question is you're really referencing

2164
03:10:10,300 --> 03:10:16,840
the emergency response plan that was an additional condition of approval in between Planning

2165
03:10:16,840 --> 03:10:21,800
Commission and border county commissioners and there is a draft emergency response plan.

2166
03:10:22,000 --> 03:10:25,060
I was just trying to look it up to see where in your packet it is and I can tell you that

2167
03:10:25,060 --> 03:10:25,400
in a minute.

2168
03:10:25,760 --> 03:10:31,920
A draft plan has been prepared by GCC and with the recommendations of the various agencies

2169
03:10:31,920 --> 03:10:33,200
incorporated into that.

2170
03:10:33,460 --> 03:10:38,000
And as I understand it, there's now discussion of a further condition of approval that further

2171
03:10:38,000 --> 03:10:41,520
meetings be held involving members of the public who have additional questions and

2172
03:10:41,520 --> 03:10:42,480
concerns about that.

2173
03:10:42,480 --> 03:10:48,660
But the response plan would dictate whether alternative routing is to be requested from the county,

2174
03:10:48,840 --> 03:10:52,700
but Mr. Peterson's right that the county would still have to approve any alternative routing.

2175
03:10:53,420 --> 03:10:54,760
Okay, thank you.

2176
03:10:57,870 --> 03:11:03,630
Does GCC operate any other coal mine operations similar to the one in Hesperus?

2177
03:11:05,710 --> 03:11:08,130
Oh, GCC does not operate any other coal mines.

2178
03:11:08,770 --> 03:11:09,190
Okay.

2179
03:11:10,490 --> 03:11:14,030
Given that, I'm not sure you're prepared to answer this next question,

2180
03:11:14,030 --> 03:11:22,650
but are you aware of any other counties in Colorado, for example, that do have coal mine

2181
03:11:22,650 --> 03:11:31,170
operations similar to yours? And are you aware of any other, you know, what are those counties

2182
03:11:31,170 --> 03:11:37,090
charging per ton for hauling, et cetera? Are there best practices you've been able

2183
03:11:37,090 --> 03:11:39,330
to borrow from other counties?

2184
03:11:39,330 --> 03:11:40,190
I

2185
03:11:43,260 --> 03:11:45,100
really can't speak to that level of detail.

2186
03:11:46,120 --> 03:11:51,860
I do know that in the North Fork Valley around Payonia, there's been significant conversation

2187
03:11:51,860 --> 03:11:57,020
between the coal operations and local jurisdictions about mine impacts.

2188
03:11:57,140 --> 03:12:01,360
I don't know to what extent there are impact fees levied.

2189
03:12:03,600 --> 03:12:03,940
Okay.

2190
03:12:04,820 --> 03:12:05,120
Thank you.

2191
03:12:05,180 --> 03:12:12,340
I do believe our county did have discussions with perhaps Rao County about its operations

2192
03:12:12,340 --> 03:12:13,140
with Peabody.

2193
03:12:13,960 --> 03:12:14,440
Okay.

2194
03:12:15,060 --> 03:12:15,780
It's correct.

2195
03:12:16,100 --> 03:12:17,740
Daniel Murray Plain Department.

2196
03:12:17,900 --> 03:12:20,980
We did have a conference call with the Routt County and the Peabody Mine.

2197
03:12:22,340 --> 03:12:28,740
Can you tell me what they charge per ton for impacts to the roads?

2198
03:12:29,380 --> 03:12:29,480
I

2199
03:12:34,510 --> 03:12:40,150
remember on the top of my head, in fact, they had their whole program entirely differently structured.

2200
03:12:41,790 --> 03:12:45,170
For example, they issue a permit for the mine, they issue a permit for the road.

2201
03:12:45,170 --> 03:12:52,990
So they approach it in a different way and they also have rail transport so that it's not necessarily a

2202
03:12:53,930 --> 03:13:02,660
Identical comparison because we don't have that option. Okay. Do we have an amount per ton? Does any staff

2203
03:13:03,400 --> 03:13:05,380
Remember what they charge per ton?

2204
03:13:06,480 --> 03:13:07,940
Daniel's correct. We had those

2205
03:13:08,480 --> 03:13:08,860
discussions

2206
03:13:10,160 --> 03:13:15,200
Some time ago with Routt County, but I don't recall either and I'm looking around tables

2207
03:13:15,200 --> 03:13:18,120
We'll see if anybody recalls the rate that they mentioned to us.

2208
03:13:22,720 --> 03:13:24,300
Do you need the trust, do you mind?

2209
03:13:25,020 --> 03:13:29,500
Commissioner Lachal, if you need staff to pursue that information, we can certainly do that.

2210
03:13:31,730 --> 03:13:34,430
Okay. I think it would be helpful to have a comparison,

2211
03:13:34,450 --> 03:13:39,090
just so we understand if we're in the ballpark with similar counties,

2212
03:13:39,370 --> 03:13:43,030
similar operations, if we're charging too much, too little.

2213
03:13:43,890 --> 03:13:47,150
Just for comparison. Commissioner, if I may, just to go back

2214
03:13:47,150 --> 03:13:52,590
to your prior question, we've identified the emergency response plan as being item 5050

2215
03:13:52,590 --> 03:13:53,350
in your packet.

2216
03:13:53,450 --> 03:13:53,770
Thank you.

2217
03:13:59,020 --> 03:14:02,440
Okay, Mr. Chair, I think that concludes the majority of my questions for the moment.

2218
03:14:03,780 --> 03:14:04,560
Thank you.

2219
03:14:04,840 --> 03:14:12,480
I am back to my monitoring wells question and would like to just ask a couple of questions

2220
03:14:12,480 --> 03:14:13,080
on that.

2221
03:14:15,970 --> 03:14:20,770
If you could identify yourself and your address, please.

2222
03:14:20,770 --> 03:14:24,610
Yes, sir. Landon Beck, Resource Hydrogeologic Services,

2223
03:14:24,850 --> 03:14:27,910
PO Box 2836, Durango, Colorado, 81301.

2224
03:14:29,310 --> 03:14:30,750
Can you spell your first name?

2225
03:14:31,490 --> 03:14:33,070
L-A-N-D-O-N.

2226
03:14:35,780 --> 03:14:36,440
Thank you.

2227
03:14:37,420 --> 03:14:41,860
Can you speak to the nature and the number of monitoring wells

2228
03:14:41,860 --> 03:14:43,480
and the location generally?

2229
03:14:43,820 --> 03:14:46,800
You don't have to pinpoint them, but maybe generally.

2230
03:14:47,600 --> 03:14:52,920
Are we talking about the proposed wells that we're...

2231
03:14:52,920 --> 03:14:59,960
Right. Okay. So currently proposed are for what we call clusters. That's just...

2232
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:07,840
As their monitor wells close together. Four clusters of three wells each, and each of those wells

2233
03:15:07,840 --> 03:15:13,920
will be completed in a discrete interval to monitor both water levels and water quality

2234
03:15:13,920 --> 03:15:22,660
if water is even present. The locations of those which were, you know, subject to TR-26

2235
03:15:22,660 --> 03:15:27,900
on going technical revision with the state, GRMS.

2236
03:15:28,780 --> 03:15:32,700
What we've done is we've placed one cluster to the north of the mine,

2237
03:15:32,740 --> 03:15:34,180
which is considered UpGradient.

2238
03:15:34,560 --> 03:15:37,180
That will provide baseline data.

2239
03:15:37,860 --> 03:15:44,600
In other words, data that will be collected in order to show background.

2240
03:15:46,100 --> 03:15:51,500
Natural conditions can't possibly be affected by any mining by GCC.

2241
03:15:52,320 --> 03:15:56,420
And then what we do is we look at down gradient locations.

2242
03:15:57,240 --> 03:16:03,800
So in this case there's two locations, cluster locations that are to the south of the project area.

2243
03:16:04,320 --> 03:16:11,400
And then in addition to that, we have another location that is what we would call cross gradient.

2244
03:16:11,400 --> 03:16:20,000
And that's just mostly due to the location of the Vista del Oro subdivision immediately

2245
03:16:20,000 --> 03:16:22,860
to the west, southwest of the King Tumai.

2246
03:16:29,140 --> 03:16:33,820
Are there any other monitoring plans for existing wells in the area?

2247
03:16:34,500 --> 03:16:34,760
Sure.

2248
03:16:35,220 --> 03:16:46,980
So currently, GCC monitors three existing groundwater wells, and those are in the

2249
03:16:46,980 --> 03:16:51,140
in the Hacoalcholuvium, so just unconsolidated sediments.

2250
03:16:51,960 --> 03:16:55,240
And the location, well I should say those three are part,

2251
03:16:55,620 --> 03:16:58,280
those are considered compliance wells by DRMS.

2252
03:16:58,920 --> 03:17:03,560
And those wells are sampled for water quality

2253
03:17:04,340 --> 03:17:09,580
and also water level, depth to water measurements quarterly.

2254
03:17:11,380 --> 03:17:15,600
And those records go back a substantial period of time.

2255
03:17:15,600 --> 03:17:21,060
So, for example, with the King I mine, those records go back to 1982,

2256
03:17:21,900 --> 03:17:29,120
and then the other two wells were brought online more for the King II operations ahead of the King II operations.

2257
03:17:32,300 --> 03:17:36,360
Those wells, like I say, are monitored quarterly.

2258
03:17:36,780 --> 03:17:41,340
We're actually in a phase now where we're monitoring the actual field parameters.

2259
03:17:41,340 --> 03:17:50,660
So that is to say parameters such as pH, temperature, conductivity, et cetera, on a monthly basis.

2260
03:17:51,220 --> 03:17:57,680
And then the laboratory sample collection is still on a quarterly basis.

2261
03:17:58,380 --> 03:17:59,240
Thank you.

2262
03:17:59,720 --> 03:18:01,940
And generally, what depth are those wells?

2263
03:18:02,640 --> 03:18:07,460
Existing wells are because those are shallow alluvial wells.

2264
03:18:07,580 --> 03:18:09,620
We're on the order of 20 to 30 feet.

2265
03:18:09,620 --> 03:18:11,940
One of them is 65 feet, actually.

2266
03:18:12,740 --> 03:18:16,340
But yes, so those are more on the shallow side.

2267
03:18:16,480 --> 03:18:21,220
We would consider the proposed monitor well clusters.

2268
03:18:21,540 --> 03:18:23,320
Now, those are bedrock wells, okay?

2269
03:18:23,420 --> 03:18:26,120
So those are going to be on the order of, say, 300 feet.

2270
03:18:32,870 --> 03:18:34,950
Mr. Chairman, Carolyn White again for the record.

2271
03:18:35,350 --> 03:18:35,530
Yes.

2272
03:18:35,730 --> 03:18:41,770
If I may, I would just note that your condition 17 proposed by staff is the one which requires

2273
03:18:41,770 --> 03:18:46,510
that the data from these monitoring wells be posted on the website and made public on

2274
03:18:46,510 --> 03:18:47,590
a going forward basis.

2275
03:18:48,170 --> 03:18:48,870
Thank you.

2276
03:18:49,210 --> 03:18:51,610
Thank you for your time.

2277
03:18:53,210 --> 03:18:54,410
Any further questions?

2278
03:18:55,850 --> 03:18:56,530
Commissioners?

2279
03:18:57,150 --> 03:18:57,610
Council?

2280
03:18:59,840 --> 03:19:07,760
With that, I guess we will adjourn for lunch and come back after lunch.

2281
03:19:08,600 --> 03:19:10,140
We need one hour.

2282
03:19:10,740 --> 03:19:11,680
One hour.

2283
03:19:11,680 --> 03:19:15,180
And at that time, we'll hear from the

2284
03:19:17,640 --> 03:19:18,620
neighbor's counsel.

2285
03:19:21,370 --> 03:19:25,550
All right, we'll adjourn until 1.20.

2286
03:19:26,230 --> 03:19:26,890
Thank you.

2287
03:19:28,180 --> 03:19:28,890
That was fun.

2288
04:21:57,620 --> 04:22:06,720
Testing. Thank you. We are going to call our meeting to order. Thank you for coming. And we

2289
04:22:06,720 --> 04:22:13,480
would like to mention that because we are running late, public comment was due to start at 1.

2290
04:22:14,420 --> 04:22:21,280
We will be hearing from the neighbors and legal counsel for the neighbors. If you would

2291
04:22:21,280 --> 04:22:26,880
like to make public comment and you're on a very short timeline, we would welcome you

2292
04:22:26,880 --> 04:22:32,260
to come and give public comment at this time, but we realize that it would be good to hear

2293
04:22:32,260 --> 04:22:38,320
from the neighbors in their presentation. Is there anyone that needs to make public comment?

2294
04:22:40,560 --> 04:22:44,000
No, you'll need to come up front. Have you filled out a –

2295
04:23:00,160 --> 04:23:01,300
right up here at the podium,

2296
04:23:01,440 --> 04:23:05,140
and have you filled out one of these pink slips? And what was your name, sir?

2297
04:23:05,260 --> 04:23:05,760
John Wilson.

2298
04:23:06,240 --> 04:23:09,980
Can you speak right into that mic and give your name and your address for the record?

2299
04:23:09,980 --> 04:23:16,060
Yes, John Wilson, 898, Tucker Lane, Bayfield, Colorado, 81122.

2300
04:23:16,840 --> 04:23:17,540
Thank you.

2301
04:23:17,820 --> 04:23:18,240
You're welcome.

2302
04:23:20,840 --> 04:23:21,500
Go ahead.

2303
04:23:21,720 --> 04:23:22,040
You ready?

2304
04:23:22,300 --> 04:23:22,660
You bet.

2305
04:23:22,960 --> 04:23:23,340
Okay.

2306
04:23:23,680 --> 04:23:30,400
I'm a retired officer at the United States Air Force, 28 years service,

2307
04:23:32,610 --> 04:23:34,570
I slaughter to

2308
04:23:34,570 --> 04:23:46,570
protect by oath this country from all aggressors, foreign and domestic. And that's

2309
04:23:46,570 --> 04:23:53,010
what I feel like I'm doing today. Somebody wants to close down a perfectly

2310
04:23:53,010 --> 04:24:00,330
good company that supports people up to 300, as I understand it, working

2311
04:24:00,990 --> 04:24:11,250
150 for the mine and 150 in supporting jobs, those people have families and to support

2312
04:24:12,050 --> 04:24:18,850
the political agenda of the federal government, I find to be a crime in this case.

2313
04:24:19,350 --> 04:24:22,690
That mine has got some of the best coal that there is.

2314
04:24:25,050 --> 04:24:29,990
They have not been tagged for any pollution problems that I know of that the federal

2315
04:24:29,990 --> 04:24:30,730
government has.

2316
04:24:30,730 --> 04:24:36,270
i.e. they dropped all the stuff in the river. So they're far better off than this

2317
04:24:36,270 --> 04:24:41,370
company is. These people, like I said behind me, I don't know a one of them other

2318
04:24:41,370 --> 04:24:46,950
than I introduced myself to two back there. So my agenda is to support these

2319
04:24:46,950 --> 04:24:53,550
people and their jobs and I strongly strongly recommend that you people

2320
04:24:53,550 --> 04:24:59,830
who are here to support the people of this county do so. Thank you.

2321
04:25:00,310 --> 04:25:01,630
Thank you, Mr. Wilson.

2322
04:25:08,180 --> 04:25:10,900
Is there anyone else that needs to make

2323
04:25:21,420 --> 04:25:24,300
Denise, Denise Baca?

2324
04:25:29,240 --> 04:25:30,340
She must have had to leave.

2325
04:25:42,060 --> 04:25:46,920
I will go ahead and just briefly read Denise's comment on her pink slip.

2326
04:25:46,920 --> 04:25:52,780
it says, I will be presenting property value data along County Road 120 North, the effects

2327
04:25:52,780 --> 04:25:58,720
of trucking on residents' house values. So I imagine she wanted to talk about that.

2328
04:26:01,440 --> 04:26:07,900
For those of you who weren't here earlier, we do have, let's

2329
04:26:12,730 --> 04:26:14,850
see, we do have some ground

2330
04:26:14,850 --> 04:26:21,650
rules for speaking for the public during their public comment. If you'd like to speak,

2331
04:26:21,650 --> 04:26:27,530
please complete a pink sheet and provide it to Jan or to Jeanne up here.

2332
04:26:28,850 --> 04:26:32,130
And I will call off the names of three speakers at a time.

2333
04:26:32,470 --> 04:26:36,770
If your name is called, please move to the front of the room and speak at the podium.

2334
04:26:37,830 --> 04:26:44,430
We value and respect every opinion and ask that the audience to do the same by refraining

2335
04:26:44,430 --> 04:26:46,750
from applause and outbursts.

2336
04:26:46,750 --> 04:26:51,250
Each public speaker will be given three minutes for their public comment.

2337
04:26:52,450 --> 04:26:53,430
Thank you.

2338
04:26:54,770 --> 04:27:08,130
All right, now we can go ahead and switch gears again to hear the presentation by neighbors with legal counsel and board's initial questions.

2339
04:27:08,610 --> 04:27:08,930
Thank

2340
04:27:20,130 --> 04:27:24,790
you very much, members of the commission, Mr. Chair.

2341
04:27:24,790 --> 04:27:31,290
here. Thank you all for allowing us to make this presentation. My name is Luke Danielson.

2342
04:27:32,130 --> 04:27:38,150
I'm a lawyer in Gunnison, Colorado. I wanted to come down to the big city here to make

2343
04:27:38,150 --> 04:27:46,170
this presentation. I represent Cross Creek Ranch and let me just tell you a little

2344
04:27:46,170 --> 04:27:52,410
bit about my client. They're a landowner on County Road 120 North. It's owned by

2345
04:27:52,410 --> 04:28:01,550
the Fouts family. The Fouts family have been active in this area since 1901, lived in the

2346
04:28:01,550 --> 04:28:08,050
Four Corners area much longer than that. But I just wanted to say we are not here because

2347
04:28:08,050 --> 04:28:15,370
we oppose mining. We're not here for anything other than to try to help balance the interests

2348
04:28:15,370 --> 04:28:20,450
of the neighbors with the interests of the mining company, okay?

2349
04:28:20,970 --> 04:28:26,730
I don't want ever, I spent my whole career trying to get us beyond the thing of,

2350
04:28:26,870 --> 04:28:28,870
I like the mine, I don't like the mine.

2351
04:28:29,110 --> 04:28:32,430
You know, things are much more complicated and nuanced than that,

2352
04:28:32,570 --> 04:28:34,410
and I hope that's where we're going to go.

2353
04:28:35,070 --> 04:28:36,110
I just wanted to,

2354
04:28:39,910 --> 04:28:44,530
for some reason, none of these buttons seem to advance my,

2355
04:28:45,630 --> 04:28:47,090
I guess I need to use this.

2356
04:28:47,090 --> 04:28:51,730
Next, this is just my personal note, this is where I lived when I was a little boy.

2357
04:28:52,550 --> 04:28:57,670
My parents taught at Fort Lewis while it was still out at the Fort before the Durango campus.

2358
04:28:59,430 --> 04:29:02,450
And I wanted to do a little history of this.

2359
04:29:02,810 --> 04:29:07,430
Where we were not so long ago, I'm sure some of you remember Violet Smith.

2360
04:29:08,190 --> 04:29:12,950
I do, because I was a member of our State Mind Land Reclamation Board, and I remember

2361
04:29:12,950 --> 04:29:16,990
Remember what our inspectors used to say when we told them they had to go out and inspect

2362
04:29:16,990 --> 04:29:17,650
this mine?

2363
04:29:18,370 --> 04:29:26,050
They weren't always happy about it, but basically we had a mom and pop operation out here.

2364
04:29:26,210 --> 04:29:27,110
That's really what it was.

2365
04:29:27,670 --> 04:29:34,130
In 2001 the Bureau of Land Management did an environmental assessment and they found

2366
04:29:34,130 --> 04:29:39,310
that at that time, there's an estimated 18 to 28 coal trucks

2367
04:29:39,310 --> 04:29:39,730
a day.

2368
04:29:40,370 --> 04:29:44,850
That's what was going on out there at the time, right?

2369
04:29:46,370 --> 04:29:49,310
And they anticipated that that would continue

2370
04:29:49,310 --> 04:29:53,450
to be the production rate 300,000 tons a year.

2371
04:29:55,070 --> 04:29:58,090
We now have the company having successfully

2372
04:29:58,090 --> 04:29:59,770
made an application to the state.

2373
04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:04,060
They raised their production rate to 1,300,000 times.

2374
04:30:04,520 --> 04:30:08,720
So from this time to date, we've had a quadrupling of the production.

2375
04:30:09,740 --> 04:30:12,700
It is no longer a mom-and-pop operation.

2376
04:30:13,360 --> 04:30:15,780
And if we ever wanted to treat it like one,

2377
04:30:15,860 --> 04:30:17,440
it's not time to do it anymore.

2378
04:30:18,020 --> 04:30:20,280
Its impacts have grown dramatically.

2379
04:30:20,860 --> 04:30:24,600
And it's operated by a major multinational company, OK?

2380
04:30:25,440 --> 04:30:29,740
Grupo de Cementos de Chihuahua is a very successful

2381
04:30:29,740 --> 04:30:38,500
cement manufacturer, a $14 billion company, it just bought this month a bunch of major

2382
04:30:38,500 --> 04:30:41,760
assets mostly in the front range for $400 million.

2383
04:30:43,020 --> 04:30:47,340
So this is not a company without assets and capacity.

2384
04:30:49,620 --> 04:30:55,300
This operation has been in non-compliance with the land use code for years.

2385
04:30:55,300 --> 04:31:02,980
Okay? Here is the August 5, 2010 letter from the county attorney that we've talked about before.

2386
04:31:03,520 --> 04:31:13,640
This is a violation of the La Plata County land use code directing the company to get in compliance in August of 2010.

2387
04:31:14,540 --> 04:31:21,820
Okay? Here we are almost six years later, and we're going to see what's been...

2388
04:31:21,820 --> 04:31:23,700
Here is prior to the county's letter.

2389
04:31:24,240 --> 04:31:26,620
If you'll see, these are production figures.

2390
04:31:27,200 --> 04:31:31,180
Incidentally, if you're interested in these production

2391
04:31:31,180 --> 04:31:42,000
figures, look at Carl Mount's Exhibit 35 or Attachment 35,

2392
04:31:42,440 --> 04:31:45,200
which has all the data of that past production

2393
04:31:45,930 --> 04:31:46,920
that he compiled.

2394
04:31:47,480 --> 04:31:50,020
But you see that at no point did we ever

2395
04:31:50,020 --> 04:31:53,820
get to 500,000 tons a year prior to the county letter.

2396
04:31:54,000 --> 04:31:55,160
Here's what happened after.

2397
04:31:56,080 --> 04:31:57,380
Here's the county letter.

2398
04:31:57,900 --> 04:32:03,400
Suddenly we're up to 600, 800, 900, and an application

2399
04:32:03,400 --> 04:32:05,080
to go to 1.3 million.

2400
04:32:06,260 --> 04:32:09,720
So this is after being told that they're not

2401
04:32:09,720 --> 04:32:11,980
in compliance with the county land use code.

2402
04:32:12,360 --> 04:32:15,200
We see this dramatic ramping up of production,

2403
04:32:15,200 --> 04:32:21,080
operation, during which period we never actually quite get a permit, right?

2404
04:32:23,540 --> 04:32:27,560
Here's how that production translates to coal truck trips.

2405
04:32:28,140 --> 04:32:33,200
As you see, there's a little bit of hatching there that represents these differences that

2406
04:32:33,200 --> 04:32:40,440
Mr. Olsen talked about earlier between seven-day operation, six-day operation, or five-day

2407
04:32:40,440 --> 04:32:41,120
operation.

2408
04:32:41,120 --> 04:32:46,360
But what we're seeing here is, by our calculation,

2409
04:32:46,740 --> 04:32:49,040
and all of our numbers are there in the record,

2410
04:32:49,400 --> 04:32:51,300
in Mr. Mount's report,

2411
04:32:52,400 --> 04:32:54,640
46 coal trucks per day.

2412
04:32:55,000 --> 04:32:58,140
That's actually double that number, 92,

2413
04:32:58,360 --> 04:33:00,060
if you count the coming and the going.

2414
04:33:01,120 --> 04:33:07,920
But what we see is growing coal truck traffic on that road

2415
04:33:07,920 --> 04:33:17,440
up to where we could have reached 171 trucks, 342 trucks total a day.

2416
04:33:18,120 --> 04:33:18,580
Okay?

2417
04:33:20,220 --> 04:33:31,780
That's just part of the story, though, because what I'm trying to convey is that at approximately that same time,

2418
04:33:32,500 --> 04:33:38,860
GCC, for reasons that have never really been made completely clear to us, adopted an internal

2419
04:33:38,860 --> 04:33:39,600
policy.

2420
04:33:40,000 --> 04:33:45,040
Prior to that time, the truck drivers had apparently been allowed to select their own routes.

2421
04:33:45,620 --> 04:33:50,920
Some of them went on 119, some of them went on 120 South, some of them went on 120 North.

2422
04:33:51,440 --> 04:33:57,240
But starting in 2011, all of them, 100% of them, were directed by the company onto

2423
04:33:57,240 --> 04:33:58,080
120 North.

2424
04:33:58,080 --> 04:34:03,200
Okay, so it isn't just the total number of trucks ramping up,

2425
04:34:03,420 --> 04:34:06,820
but now they're all concentrated on one road segment.

2426
04:34:07,380 --> 04:34:12,020
Okay, so that's why we start seeing some of the concerns.

2427
04:34:12,600 --> 04:34:16,020
This is not Violet Smith and her 18 trucks a day.

2428
04:34:16,740 --> 04:34:18,860
Okay, what is this meant?

2429
04:34:18,980 --> 04:34:21,340
This is from Mr. Olson's report.

2430
04:34:22,500 --> 04:34:26,100
And this is, what is this meant for truck traffic?

2431
04:34:26,100 --> 04:34:35,540
Well, we've gone from the 2001 level to a proposed level of 312 trips.

2432
04:34:36,920 --> 04:34:44,500
And if you add the other trucks, the water trucks, the supply trucks, the equipment trucks bringing stuff up to the mine,

2433
04:34:44,780 --> 04:34:51,240
and all the employee vehicles, we're talking about 660 trips a day, okay?

2434
04:34:51,240 --> 04:34:55,040
312 per day of these large heavy trucks.

2435
04:34:55,920 --> 04:34:58,600
We're going to talk about these five subjects.

2436
04:34:59,660 --> 04:35:04,060
Okay? And let me start into road safety.

2437
04:35:04,760 --> 04:35:08,160
Just say this. There's all kind of talk about,

2438
04:35:08,600 --> 04:35:11,080
oh, well there are all these different layers of regulation.

2439
04:35:11,480 --> 04:35:15,620
This is an area where the county is clearly in the driver's seat.

2440
04:35:16,100 --> 04:35:19,680
Okay? The county has the responsibility

2441
04:35:19,680 --> 04:35:22,760
for regulating activity on county roads.

2442
04:35:23,320 --> 04:35:25,240
It's not the Bureau of Land Management

2443
04:35:25,240 --> 04:35:27,860
or some agency in Washington, D.C.

2444
04:35:27,920 --> 04:35:29,900
This is the county's job, okay?

2445
04:35:32,240 --> 04:35:37,260
And the code requires an analysis of safety

2446
04:35:38,240 --> 04:35:40,380
as part of the application process.

2447
04:35:40,740 --> 04:35:44,140
And we believe that the current levels of truck traffic

2448
04:35:44,140 --> 04:35:47,000
on the current roadway just simply aren't safe.

2449
04:35:47,000 --> 04:35:50,500
The public is exposed to unreasonable dangers.

2450
04:35:51,720 --> 04:35:57,840
LSC transportation consultants is a highly regarded traffic engineering firm.

2451
04:35:58,580 --> 04:36:05,520
It came out, did traffic counts, measured the curves, measured the width, did all kinds of analysis of the roadway.

2452
04:36:06,280 --> 04:36:08,500
And this is their conclusion.

2453
04:36:08,500 --> 04:36:15,480
At a level of 80 loaded cold trucks a day, we are not adequately ensuring a reasonable

2454
04:36:15,480 --> 04:36:17,960
degree of public safety on the road.

2455
04:36:18,680 --> 04:36:25,140
I've brought Jeff Hodgson, a traffic engineer with LSC here with me, and Jeff is going

2456
04:36:25,140 --> 04:36:27,380
to explain his conclusions.

2457
04:36:27,920 --> 04:36:28,060
Great.

2458
04:36:29,800 --> 04:36:31,000
Thank you, Mr. Danielson.

2459
04:36:31,980 --> 04:36:35,380
Again, Jeff Hodgson with LSC Transportation Consultants.

2460
04:36:35,380 --> 04:36:41,540
545 Eastpikes Peak, suite 210 Colorado Springs 80903.

2461
04:36:42,840 --> 04:36:50,160
We're a Colorado-based traffic engineering and transportation planning sort of specialty firm.

2462
04:36:50,640 --> 04:36:55,560
We have offices in Denver and Colorado Springs and Tahoe City, California.

2463
04:36:56,780 --> 04:37:02,020
Speaking for myself, I have 23 years of experience in these fields,

2464
04:37:02,020 --> 04:37:10,120
vehicles, conducting traffic impact assessment reports, traffic operations analysis, roadway

2465
04:37:10,120 --> 04:37:11,160
geometry analysis.

2466
04:37:12,340 --> 04:37:17,980
In addition to the reports we've submitted, I've read the reports and the staff recommendations.

2467
04:37:19,220 --> 04:37:25,020
I've directed and supervised our personnel in the field, taking measurements and doing

2468
04:37:25,020 --> 04:37:31,460
traffic counts and I've examined the route in detail myself on a couple of

2469
04:37:31,460 --> 04:37:31,920
visits.

2470
04:37:34,130 --> 04:37:34,730
Okay,

2471
04:37:38,880 --> 04:37:42,940
there we go. If I look at the screen instead of my paper it'd be

2472
04:37:42,940 --> 04:37:49,240
better off. Anyway, so when we prepared our reports in our evaluation we

2473
04:37:49,240 --> 04:37:54,380
considered the factors that are shown on the slide specifically

2474
04:37:54,380 --> 04:38:00,880
specifically calling attention to horizontal alignment and roadway widths and lane widths,

2475
04:38:00,880 --> 04:38:07,780
as well as site distance, and the traffic volumes on the roadway, and the mix of vehicles.

2476
04:38:08,480 --> 04:38:12,100
And it's important to note about the mix of vehicles, you know, when you talk about

2477
04:38:12,100 --> 04:38:16,740
a local roadway and criteria, often you refer to a local roadway with a typical

2478
04:38:16,740 --> 04:38:22,060
mix of resident, mostly residential traffic and perhaps some other uses as well.

2479
04:38:22,060 --> 04:38:27,300
This road is highly dominated by large commercial truck traffic.

2480
04:38:27,960 --> 04:38:30,900
It's a dominant mix of the vehicle.

2481
04:38:31,000 --> 04:38:33,640
It's dominant in the vehicle mix on that roadway.

2482
04:38:33,780 --> 04:38:36,140
So that's a certainly a very important consideration,

2483
04:38:36,600 --> 04:38:40,360
just the sheer size and the number of the percentage.

2484
04:38:41,620 --> 04:38:45,220
We looked at, and we of course looked at the crash history as well.

2485
04:38:45,220 --> 04:38:58,480
So based on these factors, we evaluated it along with field observations and looking at county criteria first and foremost,

2486
04:38:58,940 --> 04:39:08,940
but also looking at drawing on other criteria for some additional detail such as AASHTO, which is the roadway design handbook,

2487
04:39:08,940 --> 04:39:15,980
work, geometric design, Institute of Transportation Engineers Resources, and other jurisdictions,

2488
04:39:16,300 --> 04:39:20,120
other county criteria for roadways in Colorado.

2489
04:39:22,260 --> 04:39:29,000
What we found is that when we did the analysis, we found a lot of, as has been mentioned

2490
04:39:29,000 --> 04:39:30,540
before, the roadway is deficient.

2491
04:39:31,180 --> 04:39:36,900
So we found a lot of deficiencies up and down County Road 120 North, and a lot of

2492
04:39:36,900 --> 04:39:43,600
those deficiencies, kind of, they're combined deficiencies, such as a narrow width with

2493
04:39:43,600 --> 04:39:50,360
a substandard curve and poor sight distance. And those factors kind of exasperate, you

2494
04:39:50,360 --> 04:39:59,460
know, any one of the deficiencies alone. So our conclusion has been that the roadway

2495
04:39:59,460 --> 04:40:06,440
is not adequate to run 80 loaded coal trucks a day and still have or ensure a reasonable

2496
04:40:06,440 --> 04:40:12,700
degree of public safety and efficiency for the traveling public in its current condition

2497
04:40:12,700 --> 04:40:15,840
or in a partially or phased condition.

2498
04:40:19,420 --> 04:40:25,980
So basically, our judgment is until all the road improvements have been completed, the

2499
04:40:25,980 --> 04:40:32,760
55 trucks a day would be a reasonable upper limit of the trucks, of the coal transport

2500
04:40:32,760 --> 04:40:33,200
trucks.

2501
04:40:33,200 --> 04:40:40,600
And I made this recommendation with a little bit of reservation given the deficiencies we're seeing out there.

2502
04:40:43,440 --> 04:40:50,880
However, it's a reasonable compromise towards that end to keep things operating.

2503
04:40:52,540 --> 04:41:00,520
The 55 was basically, it's an adjusted number from the seven-day traffic to the six-day

2504
04:41:00,520 --> 04:41:06,440
that represents the historical level at the time the county letter was sent to GCC.

2505
04:41:07,440 --> 04:41:13,160
That 2010 letter at that point, that was the, it was like 46 or something like that.

2506
04:41:13,260 --> 04:41:16,920
We adjusted it up to 55 to account for the six-state traffic.

2507
04:41:18,180 --> 04:41:25,300
Also, that number is consistent with the Hay Gulch Citizens Advisory Panel recommendation.

2508
04:41:25,300 --> 04:41:29,320
So that's the main basis for the 55.

2509
04:41:31,320 --> 04:41:33,820
So when all road improvements are completed,

2510
04:41:35,360 --> 04:41:39,220
the increased truck loading on 120 North could be accommodated.

2511
04:41:40,300 --> 04:41:43,740
And traffic also needs to be limited during construction,

2512
04:41:43,900 --> 04:41:46,620
and this 55 will help with that as well.

2513
04:41:49,790 --> 04:41:55,070
So when we talk about limiting 55 trucks a day,

2514
04:41:55,070 --> 04:42:00,790
loaded trucks on 120 north we still look at there's still the option of 120

2515
04:42:00,790 --> 04:42:07,970
south and 119 and I'm talking about not 120 south all the way to highway 140 I'm

2516
04:42:07,970 --> 04:42:15,490
talking about 120 south the 116 to 119 is what I'm referring to so none and

2517
04:42:15,490 --> 04:42:19,790
none of the roads in this area are ideal to carry this volume and type of

2518
04:42:19,790 --> 04:42:20,170
traffic.

2519
04:42:22,730 --> 04:42:26,590
I mean, that's pretty well known. I've observed and completed some analysis

2520
04:42:26,590 --> 04:42:33,110
of that southern route. And from what I can see, there doesn't appear to be any engineering

2521
04:42:33,750 --> 04:42:40,050
basis for saying that trucks cannot use that route. And what I mean by that is, you know,

2522
04:42:40,110 --> 04:42:45,970
there's been discussions of crashes and incidents and that sort of thing. And again, this

2523
04:42:45,970 --> 04:42:47,750
The route is not ideal.

2524
04:42:48,470 --> 04:42:51,430
However, I didn't see any evidence that would suggest

2525
04:42:51,430 --> 04:42:53,150
that this route should be just tossed.

2526
04:42:53,910 --> 04:42:57,350
I think it's worthy of looking at maybe doing some improvements

2527
04:42:57,350 --> 04:42:59,650
because some improvements would likely be needed,

2528
04:42:59,830 --> 04:43:01,710
some not significant improvements,

2529
04:43:01,810 --> 04:43:03,590
but I think some minor improvements would be needed.

2530
04:43:05,870 --> 04:43:09,030
And perhaps some of the techniques have been used on 120

2531
04:43:09,030 --> 04:43:12,250
with some of the slowing, the changes of the speed limits

2532
04:43:12,250 --> 04:43:14,070
could be applied on 120.

2533
04:43:14,070 --> 04:43:19,670
Whereas before, maybe they didn't try some of those approaches when they said it failed before.

2534
04:43:22,450 --> 04:43:27,590
So bottom line is one-way truck traffic where they arrive one way and depart another.

2535
04:43:28,910 --> 04:43:37,170
Maybe the best solution to allow GCC to have more trucks yet still stay below that 55 trucks a day

2536
04:43:37,170 --> 04:43:42,050
so they can expand and use the other route to get to allow more trucks

2537
04:43:42,050 --> 04:43:44,690
by splitting the ins and the outs.

2538
04:43:48,370 --> 04:43:52,630
So this is just a quick excerpt of what I was, I'm just going to briefly go over this.

2539
04:43:53,390 --> 04:43:57,210
This is what I talk about sort of a couple of the deficiencies that we see.

2540
04:43:58,070 --> 04:44:02,570
And this is, there's a couple of several locations along 120 North that you see this.

2541
04:44:02,970 --> 04:44:06,790
The roadway is narrow in some cases 20 to 22 feet

2542
04:44:06,790 --> 04:44:09,850
for the traveled way for the road vehicles,

2543
04:44:10,630 --> 04:44:13,690
and it's on a substandard tight horizontal curve.

2544
04:44:14,250 --> 04:44:17,890
The way trucks operate, they need to swing wide,

2545
04:44:18,210 --> 04:44:21,830
and they need extra width to be able to make the corner

2546
04:44:21,830 --> 04:44:24,530
without having the rear wheels go into the ditch,

2547
04:44:24,870 --> 04:44:26,970
so they need to use up more of the roadway.

2548
04:44:27,070 --> 04:44:30,470
So what you see here is that basically the opposite direction

2549
04:44:30,470 --> 04:44:32,390
paths basically overlap.

2550
04:44:32,710 --> 04:44:33,110
They conflict.

2551
04:44:33,650 --> 04:44:39,150
So, you know, that's a problem, and that's why the road needs to be upgraded to the current standard.

2552
04:44:39,930 --> 04:44:50,590
And part of my recommendation for the upgraded road is to, if there's places where they have curves that need to be still tight,

2553
04:44:51,550 --> 04:44:57,050
widen those way out according to the Asheville standards so that those truck paths don't conflict.

2554
04:44:57,410 --> 04:44:59,690
So that's all I have for now.

2555
04:44:59,690 --> 04:44:59,750
Thank you.

2556
04:45:01,520 --> 04:45:03,260
Thank you. Thank you.

2557
04:45:08,960 --> 04:45:11,660
So, you know, this is the staff report.

2558
04:45:11,980 --> 04:45:19,280
Everyone agrees that we're talking about a traffic volume that's beyond the capacity of the existing road,

2559
04:45:19,720 --> 04:45:22,380
that it's not up to minimum county standards.

2560
04:45:23,440 --> 04:45:28,700
And it would only be compatible on completion of all required improvements.

2561
04:45:30,800 --> 04:45:35,460
You know, incidentally, I would just say that's one thing I think we all agree on, is if all

2562
04:45:35,460 --> 04:45:41,680
these improvements are done, my clients don't have any problem with the 120 truck a day limit.

2563
04:45:42,160 --> 04:45:45,880
But we want the improvements to be done before we reach that limit.

2564
04:45:47,580 --> 04:45:50,860
How can the county get to this 80 trucks a day?

2565
04:45:51,300 --> 04:45:56,560
Well, you heard this thing of, well, someone told us, someone whose name has never been

2566
04:45:56,560 --> 04:46:01,760
divulged, told us in 2014 that things were okay in 2013.

2567
04:46:03,670 --> 04:46:10,700
You know, we submitted to the Planning Commission, and they're in the file, and I'd like them

2568
04:46:10,700 --> 04:46:15,640
to be part of the record, letters from a majority of the residents on 120 North saying,

2569
04:46:16,280 --> 04:46:22,320
I never told anybody that it was okay in 2013, I never heard anyone say that it

2570
04:46:22,320 --> 04:46:23,660
was OK in 2013.

2571
04:46:24,300 --> 04:46:26,700
And I don't think it was OK in 2013.

2572
04:46:27,720 --> 04:46:32,400
We put in an Open Records Act request to the county

2573
04:46:32,400 --> 04:46:35,040
for any documents that would support or contain

2574
04:46:35,040 --> 04:46:35,740
that statement.

2575
04:46:35,940 --> 04:46:38,320
And last Friday, we told, we don't

2576
04:46:38,320 --> 04:46:40,320
believe any such documents exist.

2577
04:46:41,300 --> 04:46:47,620
So the basis is, somebody said supposedly in 2014

2578
04:46:47,620 --> 04:46:49,960
that everything was OK in 2013.

2579
04:46:49,960 --> 04:46:55,300
team. Who said that? Who knows? We haven't been able to find them. And we've been looking.

2580
04:46:56,400 --> 04:47:04,420
The county has no engineering study that supports 80. Let me turn to air pollution before I

2581
04:47:04,420 --> 04:47:11,060
go too far. I'm going to cut the short in light of Commissioner Westendorf's questions.

2582
04:47:12,580 --> 04:47:21,920
But basically, we know about the PM10 standard, and what we know is, let me just get right to this.

2583
04:47:22,260 --> 04:47:28,340
The standard's 150, and the modeling that's been done shows what?

2584
04:47:28,560 --> 04:47:30,880
At the McHugh residents, it's double the standard.

2585
04:47:31,120 --> 04:47:33,700
At the Hunziker residents, it's triple the standard.

2586
04:47:34,320 --> 04:47:40,280
And I would be delighted if the commission wants to pursue this line of questioning

2587
04:47:40,280 --> 04:47:43,720
of why is our study different from the applicant's study.

2588
04:47:44,540 --> 04:47:48,520
But we do all agree, I think, that long-term exposure,

2589
04:47:48,760 --> 04:47:51,820
like living for six years in a cloud of dust

2590
04:47:51,820 --> 04:47:55,960
while we creak our way through the permitting process,

2591
04:47:57,720 --> 04:48:00,240
is indeed deleterious to health.

2592
04:48:00,940 --> 04:48:01,320
OK?

2593
04:48:03,080 --> 04:48:06,260
It's interesting, it is a function of traffic levels.

2594
04:48:06,260 --> 04:48:14,000
One of the studies that we've submitted to you, number 37,

2595
04:48:14,380 --> 04:48:17,520
shows if you reduce this to 2010 traffic levels,

2596
04:48:17,840 --> 04:48:18,980
you're within the standard.

2597
04:48:19,500 --> 04:48:22,360
It's a function of the traffic level.

2598
04:48:23,320 --> 04:48:28,540
So this study was done on a conservative basis.

2599
04:48:29,080 --> 04:48:32,980
The authors, one of the most respected firms in Colorado

2600
04:48:32,980 --> 04:48:41,180
say that the this underestimates impacts okay solid waste here's what the county

2601
04:48:41,180 --> 04:48:45,860
land use code requires all developments are required to demonstrate

2602
04:48:45,860 --> 04:48:53,280
adequate solid waste collection and solid waste disposal sites so here's what

2603
04:48:53,280 --> 04:48:59,540
the staff report says well we take all the waste from King to and we move it

2604
04:48:59,540 --> 04:49:02,080
over to King 1, and that's where it's disposed of.

2605
04:49:03,320 --> 04:49:06,940
But the staff also says the Class 2 land use permit

2606
04:49:07,900 --> 04:49:13,300
does not include this waste disposal site, right?

2607
04:49:13,720 --> 04:49:15,980
It's our waste, but we're not going to include it.

2608
04:49:16,100 --> 04:49:18,540
And the staff proposal is apparently

2609
04:49:19,160 --> 04:49:21,540
that, yes, this does need a land use permit,

2610
04:49:21,960 --> 04:49:24,040
but at some point in the future,

2611
04:49:24,800 --> 04:49:27,140
the company needs to come and apply for one.

2612
04:49:27,140 --> 04:49:31,700
Maybe we can do another permitting process just like this one.

2613
04:49:32,140 --> 04:49:33,780
So just what we want to do.

2614
04:49:34,200 --> 04:49:38,580
But the staff position apparently is let's put all that off.

2615
04:49:38,820 --> 04:49:43,200
We will let the company just keep dumping theirs until this happens.

2616
04:49:43,460 --> 04:49:48,800
And while there is a condition, condition number two that talks about this,

2617
04:49:49,120 --> 04:49:53,000
there's no condition that says that this has to be done by any particular time.

2618
04:49:53,180 --> 04:49:54,840
There's no deadline for doing anything.

2619
04:49:54,840 --> 04:49:58,180
This is a picture of the waste disposal site.

2620
04:49:59,380 --> 04:50:00,720
Here's the condition.

2621
04:50:01,620 --> 04:50:03,620
Apparently, the proposal is this.

2622
04:50:04,160 --> 04:50:08,160
After this hearing, but before the permit issues,

2623
04:50:08,860 --> 04:50:11,860
the company's going to write a report and come in

2624
04:50:11,860 --> 04:50:17,320
and give us the report, which, after any opportunity

2625
04:50:17,320 --> 04:50:21,220
for public comment, that is going

2626
04:50:21,220 --> 04:50:26,380
to deal with the question of what's happening with the wastes, okay?

2627
04:50:27,040 --> 04:50:30,180
So here's the deal.

2628
04:50:31,360 --> 04:50:34,860
The county is saying, well, let's rely on the state.

2629
04:50:35,640 --> 04:50:42,080
But four years after GCC was found in violation by the state for disposing of things here,

2630
04:50:43,090 --> 04:50:46,100
there's still no resolution of this application.

2631
04:50:47,060 --> 04:50:50,260
Indeed, I can bring you news.

2632
04:50:51,160 --> 04:50:57,880
Today was the deadline by which the state was supposed to receive everything needed and act on TR20.

2633
04:50:58,400 --> 04:51:05,000
Oh, guess what? Today the state acted to extend the deadline again, apparently at the request of GCC.

2634
04:51:06,080 --> 04:51:09,640
So we have no decision on what monitoring is going to be done,

2635
04:51:10,560 --> 04:51:13,380
no decision on which parameters will be modeled,

2636
04:51:13,380 --> 04:51:16,880
no decision on whether the activity meets standards

2637
04:51:16,880 --> 04:51:20,700
and no effective deadline for any decision.

2638
04:51:21,460 --> 04:51:25,500
And our point is, look at the bottom, all developments are required

2639
04:51:25,500 --> 04:51:29,820
to demonstrate adequate solid waste collection and disposal.

2640
04:51:30,460 --> 04:51:32,680
Okay? That's our concern.

2641
04:51:33,800 --> 04:51:36,800
Water, ground and surface water.

2642
04:51:39,780 --> 04:51:44,480
This is what our expert, Randy Fisher, says.

2643
04:51:44,480 --> 04:51:49,980
says, the potential water quality impacts may result in possible human and should be

2644
04:51:49,980 --> 04:51:52,740
taken into consideration by La Plata County.

2645
04:51:53,600 --> 04:51:58,340
The county's position is let the state take care of this.

2646
04:51:59,140 --> 04:52:03,660
I don't know how you comply with the county land use code based on the hope that at

2647
04:52:03,660 --> 04:52:07,320
some future date the state will do something.

2648
04:52:07,320 --> 04:52:15,160
At this point, I'm now told that the state has received some kind of advice from GCC

2649
04:52:15,160 --> 04:52:21,020
that some of these locations for these well clusters are going to have to be changed

2650
04:52:21,020 --> 04:52:24,220
because they're having trouble getting access to them.

2651
04:52:24,620 --> 04:52:29,720
And so they're going to have to reanalyze this and start all over again.

2652
04:52:29,900 --> 04:52:35,240
So we're talking about monitoring that can't even occur until the wells are installed.

2653
04:52:35,240 --> 04:52:40,940
We are continuously postponing this process.

2654
04:52:41,440 --> 04:52:49,320
How can the county find compatibility for water based on the possibility that the state may at some future point take action?

2655
04:52:50,480 --> 04:52:50,820
Okay.

2656
04:52:52,440 --> 04:52:55,500
GCC has not come into agreement with the state.

2657
04:52:56,940 --> 04:52:57,600
Noise.

2658
04:52:58,320 --> 04:52:59,980
I'm just going to make these points.

2659
04:53:01,620 --> 04:53:08,040
Mr. Dr. Braslau's report is 73.

2660
04:53:09,360 --> 04:53:14,860
First of all, the HUD noise guidelines used in the wave engineering report are designed

2661
04:53:14,860 --> 04:53:19,960
for like downtown Chicago or some kind of serious urban area.

2662
04:53:20,120 --> 04:53:23,940
They're not appropriate for evaluation of rural noise.

2663
04:53:26,100 --> 04:53:34,120
And he says, analyzing the data, there's a severe noise impact at these three monitoring

2664
04:53:34,120 --> 04:53:40,880
sites, which I think it should be M1 and M2 and M3, and that if this were a federally

2665
04:53:40,880 --> 04:53:45,000
funded project, federal rules would require mitigation.

2666
04:53:45,900 --> 04:53:48,540
So this is my last slide.

2667
04:53:49,480 --> 04:53:54,720
And again, we're really what this is supposed to say if you look at the right-hand side

2668
04:53:54,720 --> 04:54:01,180
is 55, but we haven't adjusted it to the appropriate number of days in a week.

2669
04:54:01,900 --> 04:54:07,600
But if you look at this, what you'll see is there are three reasons why this is appropriate.

2670
04:54:08,100 --> 04:54:13,720
Left-hand bar, that's the level we had in 2010 when the county sent the letter saying

2671
04:54:13,720 --> 04:54:14,780
you're not in compliance.

2672
04:54:15,740 --> 04:54:25,820
That's the letter that Mr. Hodson has recommended as being tolerable in the short-room term as a compromise while we wait.

2673
04:54:26,140 --> 04:54:29,920
It also gets us to air quality compliance.

2674
04:54:31,100 --> 04:54:37,640
And it's also recommendation number one of the Hague Gulch Citizen Advisory Panel.

2675
04:54:38,360 --> 04:54:42,860
Recommendation number one was returned to the 2010 levels immediately.

2676
04:54:44,380 --> 04:54:52,000
So that's my presentation. I look forward to any questions, particularly about the air pollution.

2677
04:54:52,800 --> 04:54:55,040
But let me turn this over to my colleagues.

2678
04:55:21,310 --> 04:55:26,570
Good afternoon. My name is Paula Mathias, and I have lived at 788 Cougar Way for 13 years.

2679
04:55:27,170 --> 04:55:33,770
Thank you for the opportunity to share a few of my personal stories of life along CR 120 North since King Col. 2 began operating.

2680
04:55:33,770 --> 04:55:41,070
As you witnessed on your May 18th site visit, traffic counts do not include delivery vehicles, water trucks, or employees.

2681
04:55:41,810 --> 04:55:48,090
Therefore, daily traffic related to the mine has resulted in substantial increases over the existing traffic volumes.

2682
04:55:48,650 --> 04:55:53,890
It exceeds 600 additional vehicles utilizing our narrow rural county road.

2683
04:55:54,770 --> 04:55:59,870
I live on Cougar Mesa. It's a subdivision located directly above where the pavement ends.

2684
04:55:59,870 --> 04:56:05,290
Our location, coupled with the topography along the top of the nearly 9 percent variance

2685
04:56:05,290 --> 04:56:11,350
hill, means that each loaded coal truck climbing the hill 24 hours per day creates noise pollution.

2686
04:56:12,010 --> 04:56:15,570
Noise that is beyond the Colorado noise statute of 86 decibels.

2687
04:56:16,590 --> 04:56:18,590
Noise that interrupts our quality of sleep.

2688
04:56:19,470 --> 04:56:22,670
Noise that is occurring even though this hill is paved.

2689
04:56:23,470 --> 04:56:27,790
Noise that has never been monitored at the loudest point identified by residents.

2690
04:56:28,330 --> 04:56:31,030
Our days of enjoying a cup of coffee on the patio,

2691
04:56:31,370 --> 04:56:33,850
admiring our rural solitude, are long gone.

2692
04:56:34,590 --> 04:56:38,590
During your visit, Noise Along Variance Hill was one of the highlights,

2693
04:56:38,990 --> 04:56:44,270
but as you are aware, we did not exit our vehicles to experience the noise created by a coal truck.

2694
04:56:44,870 --> 04:56:49,050
This is unfortunate, as I know you would have agreed that the decibels reached

2695
04:56:49,050 --> 04:56:51,690
would not have qualified for La Plata County compatibility.

2696
04:56:52,550 --> 04:56:59,390
Another compatibility issue that was not visible during your site visit due to our lovely rainy, muddy conditions was dust.

2697
04:57:00,210 --> 04:57:06,330
We have endured dust for way too long. My asthma has definitely worsened over the past three years as I now take two medications.

2698
04:57:07,210 --> 04:57:13,990
Currently, the amount of water added to the dirt section of CR120 to suppress dust creates track on onto the pavement,

2699
04:57:13,990 --> 04:57:20,490
and the dust generated by the coal trucks easily extends beyond the height of their wheels and permeates the canyon.

2700
04:57:21,590 --> 04:57:25,650
Our biggest concern living along CR 120 North is safety.

2701
04:57:26,410 --> 04:57:31,370
We have repeatedly heard there have been very few reported accidents on 120 North, if any.

2702
04:57:32,010 --> 04:57:32,730
This is incorrect.

2703
04:57:33,650 --> 04:57:39,210
On Saturday, October 18, 2014, a coal truck driver suffered a fatal heart attack near

2704
04:57:39,210 --> 04:57:41,630
mile 1.4 in route to the mine.

2705
04:57:42,530 --> 04:57:46,830
During the winter, trucks create safety hazards on 120 North, particularly attempting

2706
04:57:46,830 --> 04:57:48,150
to climb the variance hill.

2707
04:57:48,150 --> 04:57:53,830
While these incidents are not reported, they occur often and put residents' lives in danger.

2708
04:57:55,350 --> 04:58:01,650
Let me clarify that everyone seated here today behind me has lived on CR 120 North before

2709
04:58:01,650 --> 04:58:03,530
GCC purchased King Cole 1.

2710
04:58:04,190 --> 04:58:10,290
We were residents before GCC introduced the semi-truck, 288 daily.

2711
04:58:11,290 --> 04:58:13,750
Each of us does not represent a job.

2712
04:58:14,170 --> 04:58:17,070
We represent a family, a subdivision, a neighbor.

2713
04:58:17,070 --> 04:58:21,670
However, while concessions have been reached with the county and other community members,

2714
04:58:22,290 --> 04:58:25,050
our concerns largely have been ignored.

2715
04:58:26,570 --> 04:58:31,010
Had a land use permit been granted in 2010, the truck levels would have been livable

2716
04:58:31,010 --> 04:58:32,630
and compatible at 55.

2717
04:58:33,390 --> 04:58:37,150
Truck numbers beyond the 2010 levels were not tolerable.

2718
04:58:37,710 --> 04:58:42,300
We are asking you to retain the character of Hegelch, to preserve the quality of

2719
04:58:42,300 --> 04:58:47,440
lives to ensure our safety and to enforce your compatibility standards.

2720
04:58:47,960 --> 04:58:53,580
Demonstrate to us, your county residents, that our lives do matter as much if not more than

2721
04:58:53,580 --> 04:58:55,160
an international company's profits.

2722
04:58:55,680 --> 04:59:01,680
Grant GC a Class II permit with the truck limit on CR 120 North of 55 trucks which

2723
04:59:01,680 --> 04:59:03,480
equals 110 per day.

2724
04:59:03,940 --> 04:59:04,400
Thank you.

2725
04:59:09,530 --> 04:59:10,790
I'm Julie McHugh.

2726
04:59:11,130 --> 04:59:14,390
I live at 2541 County Road 120.

2727
04:59:14,390 --> 04:59:18,670
My husband Frank and I have lived here for over 32 years.

2728
04:59:18,970 --> 04:59:21,010
That's where we raised our three children.

2729
04:59:21,630 --> 04:59:31,230
To begin, I cannot help but shake my head and wonder how a billion dollar multinational corporation has managed to divide a beautiful small rural community.

2730
04:59:31,850 --> 04:59:37,510
I want to thank you all for coming out to our area to try to get a better sense of what we are living with.

2731
04:59:38,470 --> 04:59:43,250
Unfortunately, on the day of the site visit, it rained all morning, hence no dust.

2732
04:59:43,250 --> 04:59:48,830
Also, how ironic that for the 25 minutes you stood in our front yard, a total of three

2733
04:59:48,830 --> 04:59:52,950
trucks passed, two coal trucks, and one speeding delivery truck.

2734
04:59:53,490 --> 04:59:59,030
That indeed was nowhere even remotely closed to a true representation of our daily life

2735
04:59:59,030 --> 04:59:59,970
dealing with that

2736
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:03,060
High volume of coal trucks, delivery trucks, and mine employees.

2737
05:00:03,840 --> 05:00:09,260
Since 2010, when GCC was notified that they needed a class 2 permit, trucks rumbling past

2738
05:00:09,260 --> 05:00:15,460
our house has tripled. This is just one aspect we struggle with. How can they continue to

2739
05:00:15,460 --> 05:00:20,340
operate and run an outrageous number of trucks daily when they are in noncompliance to county

2740
05:00:20,340 --> 05:00:28,260
codes? Also, I find it incredibly insulting to think that the experts hired by GCC have

2741
05:00:28,260 --> 05:00:34,000
stated that the quality of air in front of our home and our neighbors is within normal

2742
05:00:34,000 --> 05:00:34,440
ranges.

2743
05:00:35,080 --> 05:00:39,360
Over the past six years, we have been forced into our house because the air was so thick

2744
05:00:39,360 --> 05:00:40,720
with dust we couldn't breathe.

2745
05:00:41,520 --> 05:00:46,660
Yes, over the past few months they've watered the road, but due to the high volume of trucks,

2746
05:00:47,000 --> 05:00:49,420
it only lasts for a short period of time at best.

2747
05:00:49,960 --> 05:00:54,240
Over the past three to four years, my family has experienced the damaging effects

2748
05:00:54,240 --> 05:00:56,340
of road dust in our respiratory health.

2749
05:00:56,340 --> 05:00:58,660
So how are we going to be compensated for that?

2750
05:00:59,400 --> 05:01:01,820
We are the people who live and breathe on this road.

2751
05:01:02,300 --> 05:01:08,180
GCC and the planning department seem to think that by installing the temporary paving or barrier walls,

2752
05:01:08,480 --> 05:01:14,060
they will improve the experiences of the residents along the road, and nothing is farther from the truth.

2753
05:01:15,600 --> 05:01:23,140
We have met with them, the planning department and GCC, to discuss our situation on numerous occasions.

2754
05:01:23,140 --> 05:01:27,480
We told them that the idea of living behind a wall, living through construction,

2755
05:01:27,840 --> 05:01:31,360
and living with the 200-plus coal trucks daily was not acceptable.

2756
05:01:32,060 --> 05:01:36,480
The impacts to our property value in lives are putting us between a rock and a hard place,

2757
05:01:36,620 --> 05:01:39,500
and quite frankly, one, we are really struggling with.

2758
05:01:39,900 --> 05:01:44,220
To continue to live in a home that we peeled the logs and then built with our own hands

2759
05:01:44,220 --> 05:01:47,620
under circumstances that are intolerable is heartbreaking.

2760
05:01:48,740 --> 05:01:52,380
Our reality is that we can't sell our property for who in their right mind

2761
05:01:52,380 --> 05:01:57,660
would want to live on a coal haul road with trucks rumbling by every five minutes.

2762
05:01:58,260 --> 05:02:03,960
We asked GCC Point Blank to purchase our property, and they even admitted that they don't want

2763
05:02:03,960 --> 05:02:04,160
it.

2764
05:02:04,820 --> 05:02:06,620
So tell me, what are we to do?

2765
05:02:08,040 --> 05:02:12,100
Until the road is improved, the whole way from intersection Highway 140 to the mine,

2766
05:02:12,260 --> 05:02:14,880
GCC should only be allowed to run those 55 trucks.

2767
05:02:15,560 --> 05:02:18,800
In the past, coal trucks used both the north and south routes to the mine.

2768
05:02:18,800 --> 05:02:27,840
GCC Water Truck still uses 120 South. It seemed to work for everybody and no one group had to suffer the whole burden. That's equitable.

2769
05:02:28,680 --> 05:02:36,040
In conclusion, as we have stated from the very beginning, we do not want to shut the mind down. We just want our quality of life back.

2770
05:02:36,580 --> 05:02:44,180
I'm asking, as a resident of La Plata County, who has lived on County Road 120 since 1984,

2771
05:02:44,180 --> 05:02:51,140
for you, our elected officials to help us. Send a message that you care for your residents

2772
05:02:51,140 --> 05:02:57,300
and are looking out for our welfare and safety. Commerce is only one aspect of lives. We would

2773
05:02:57,300 --> 05:03:02,260
like to think that our quality of life does indeed matter. You were voted into your position

2774
05:03:02,260 --> 05:03:05,840
to represent your constituents, so please protect us.

2775
05:03:06,980 --> 05:03:12,600
Approving a Class II permit that limits trucks to 55 on County Road 120 North until

2776
05:03:12,600 --> 05:03:19,420
all road improvements are completed. Allowing GCC to use other routes and encourage GCC to

2777
05:03:19,420 --> 05:03:27,040
operate that mine long-term, ensuring those employees' jobs for a longer period of time.

2778
05:03:27,780 --> 05:03:28,220
Thank you.

2779
05:03:35,210 --> 05:03:42,910
I am Karen Hunziker. I live at 3230 County Road 120. A late friend of mine, Eleanor Frazier,

2780
05:03:42,910 --> 05:03:51,090
and our fathers and I purchased the old hump place at 3230 County Road 120 in 1989 and trialed

2781
05:03:51,090 --> 05:03:59,970
back and forth from Shabrak, New Mexico to care for the farm in the ranch until 2005 when

2782
05:03:59,970 --> 05:04:04,930
I moved to the ranch full time. During this time, you never viewed more than two or three

2783
05:04:04,930 --> 05:04:11,530
trucks a day in Hey Gulch and in front of my house. You could run, walk your dogs,

2784
05:04:11,530 --> 05:04:18,070
rides your horses up and down County Road 120 without the screaming, whining, pounding

2785
05:04:18,070 --> 05:04:26,270
of these coal trucks. Most of the coal trucks at this time and until 2011-2012 were traveling

2786
05:04:26,270 --> 05:04:35,650
southbound on CR 119 to 140 intersection by Fort Lewis Elementary School. The trucks

2787
05:04:35,650 --> 05:04:41,690
Passed by Bruce Kowalski's house he did not like these trucks and he kept the

2788
05:04:41,690 --> 05:04:48,010
trucks from going by his house and the route was changed. When the trucks

2789
05:04:48,010 --> 05:04:54,450
slowly traveled 120 north the dust ball of the 1930s came back. Sometimes the

2790
05:04:54,450 --> 05:05:01,290
dust is so bad I can't see. Trucks now are increasing and have tripled in

2791
05:05:01,290 --> 05:05:13,350
volume passing by my house. Where is the permit? No permit. Wow. This now is very scary situation

2792
05:05:13,350 --> 05:05:22,010
when I walk up my steps from my home to CR 120 and have a truck at my shoulders as I am

2793
05:05:22,010 --> 05:05:29,470
getting in and out of my truck or car. I met with Mike Olson and Wade Widmore in January

2794
05:05:29,470 --> 05:05:34,250
where I had told them I did not want a barrier in front of my property.

2795
05:05:34,750 --> 05:05:38,470
I do not understand where the wall would go or

2796
05:05:38,790 --> 05:05:44,430
a new road would fit between my house and the small portion of the road.

2797
05:05:45,130 --> 05:05:51,210
Be real, truck limits 55 a day and let the mine stay open, they don't need to close.

2798
05:05:59,420 --> 05:06:04,720
My name is Gary Grantham, I live at 1124 County Road 120 in Hesperus.

2799
05:06:05,660 --> 05:06:10,200
I bought the property in 1996 and have lived there continuously since 1998.

2800
05:06:11,340 --> 05:06:14,140
I have three issues I want to talk to you about.

2801
05:06:15,020 --> 05:06:19,360
Equal protection under the law, mitigation, compatibility, and conditional approval.

2802
05:06:21,380 --> 05:06:22,400
The current equal protection.

2803
05:06:22,680 --> 05:06:26,680
La Plata County's current approach to this Class II land use permit application

2804
05:06:26,680 --> 05:06:30,900
creates serious concerns about equal protection under the law for the residents

2805
05:06:30,900 --> 05:06:35,640
and property owners along CR120 North as well as for GCC Energy.

2806
05:06:36,440 --> 05:06:40,880
GCC Energy invested in a business in good faith reliance upon your assurance

2807
05:06:40,880 --> 05:06:43,440
that they did not need a Class II land use permit,

2808
05:06:44,000 --> 05:06:47,740
so we're all here because you need to put the genie back in the bottle.

2809
05:06:48,980 --> 05:06:52,640
Throughout this process, a great deal of testimony has been heard

2810
05:06:52,640 --> 05:06:55,180
about the benefits of GCC Energy's presence,

2811
05:06:55,500 --> 05:06:57,840
and I dare say you're going to hear a good bit more.

2812
05:06:57,840 --> 05:07:04,540
These benefits are real, and they accrue broadly across many economic sectors in this region.

2813
05:07:05,280 --> 05:07:12,300
However, they come with significant costs, and the exit application imposes the majority of those costs

2814
05:07:12,300 --> 05:07:15,980
on a small number of property owners and residents on CR 120 North.

2815
05:07:17,000 --> 05:07:23,420
GCC's energy preference for CR 120 North is based solely on cost,

2816
05:07:23,420 --> 05:07:41,800
And I would suggest to the commissioners that compromising the safety, health, quality of life, and property values for a select group of citizens in order to minimize project costs for a corporate applicant, and because it is politically expedient, does not constitute equal protection under the law.

2817
05:07:42,780 --> 05:07:50,100
At the last planning commission hearing, the commissioners commented that, quote, CR 120 North is getting the short end of the stick, unquote.

2818
05:07:50,860 --> 05:07:52,280
Why is that acceptable?

2819
05:07:53,160 --> 05:08:00,220
Why should the health, safety, quality of life, and property values of one group of property owners trump those of another?

2820
05:08:01,220 --> 05:08:06,600
We have been told by the Planning Department, the Fort Lewis Mesa Fire Protection District,

2821
05:08:07,660 --> 05:08:13,100
GCC Energy's Road Consultant that it's better to focus all the negative impacts on the smallest group.

2822
05:08:13,880 --> 05:08:17,400
Our neighbors on alternate routes tell us it's because there aren't many of us.

2823
05:08:17,400 --> 05:08:19,780
We're older, and we don't have children.

2824
05:08:20,540 --> 05:08:25,180
None of those arguments would be acceptable if the word black was substituted as the description.

2825
05:08:26,040 --> 05:08:29,040
So, hashtag CR120 North Lives Matter.

2826
05:08:30,480 --> 05:08:34,980
It's the county's duty to provide equally for the safety of all its residents.

2827
05:08:35,920 --> 05:08:40,300
A six-fold increase in traffic results in an exponentially higher probability of an accident.

2828
05:08:41,080 --> 05:08:43,680
When that increase is predominantly due to heavy trucks,

2829
05:08:43,680 --> 05:08:47,380
and the probable severity of the accident has a multiplier of at least 20.

2830
05:08:48,300 --> 05:08:52,500
There are no detailed plans to address the numerous limited visibility issues,

2831
05:08:52,660 --> 05:08:57,000
driveways, stone outcroppings, which also increase the probability of an accident

2832
05:08:57,000 --> 05:08:58,380
and its probable severity.

2833
05:08:58,980 --> 05:09:02,660
In fact, as you've heard today, there are no detailed plans for the road, period.

2834
05:09:04,500 --> 05:09:09,940
Emergency response times, EMS, fire police for any group should not be highly veritable.

2835
05:09:10,840 --> 05:09:17,840
Routing all the whole traffic on CR 120 North makes it likely that a 20-minute response time could increase to 60-plus minutes,

2836
05:09:18,160 --> 05:09:22,860
depending upon truck activity, time of day, and what kind of construction is going on.

2837
05:09:23,380 --> 05:09:27,640
It's clearly a reduction in current service levels for the CR 120 North residents.

2838
05:09:28,820 --> 05:09:37,180
These examples, and there are many others, reflect the view that it's permeated this entire process for the last three years,

2839
05:09:37,180 --> 05:09:43,180
that the safety, health, quality of life, and property values of CR 120 North residents

2840
05:09:43,180 --> 05:09:48,780
are expendable for the greater good of our neighbors, GCC Energy, and the county.

2841
05:09:49,480 --> 05:09:52,360
And we just simply don't subscribe to that view.

2842
05:09:53,700 --> 05:09:56,080
Now to move to no mitigation, no compatibility.

2843
05:09:57,480 --> 05:10:01,820
Many of the mitigation measures proposed in this application simply substitute one

2844
05:10:01,820 --> 05:10:03,320
and first impact for another.

2845
05:10:03,320 --> 05:10:10,540
For example, five trucks and hoes to tail 20 minutes apart or five trucks four minutes apart, your choice.

2846
05:10:12,260 --> 05:10:16,640
Bothered by the noise or the view, we'll put up an 8-foot wall and you can look at the back of that.

2847
05:10:17,720 --> 05:10:21,000
An even more egregious example is the major mitigation proposed.

2848
05:10:21,600 --> 05:10:28,380
A local 10-plus units paved highway with 12-foot lanes, 3-foot shoulders, and a 60-foot right-of-way.

2849
05:10:28,380 --> 05:10:34,920
This highway, if completed, would be totally beyond comparison to any other county road in the area.

2850
05:10:35,640 --> 05:10:43,600
In our view, such a local 10-plus units highway would, in and of itself, adversely and irrevocably

2851
05:10:43,600 --> 05:10:46,460
alter the character of the Upper Hague-Altsch neighborhood.

2852
05:10:47,400 --> 05:10:54,620
Nothing that even remotely mitigates the adverse impact of this 60-foot wide stab through the heart of our neighborhood

2853
05:10:54,620 --> 05:10:59,080
has been offered by GCC or proposed by the Planning Department.

2854
05:10:59,920 --> 05:11:04,600
Rather than making GCC Energy's industrial presence compatible with the neighborhood,

2855
05:11:05,080 --> 05:11:08,760
what this highway would do is completely transform the neighborhood

2856
05:11:08,760 --> 05:11:11,460
to make it compatible with GCC Energy.

2857
05:11:13,650 --> 05:11:15,170
Now, to turn to conditional approval,

2858
05:11:15,910 --> 05:11:19,430
we recognize that the concept of mitigation to achieve compatibility

2859
05:11:19,430 --> 05:11:21,910
embodied in the La Plata County land use code

2860
05:11:21,910 --> 05:11:25,790
road is highly subjective and largely a matter of perception.

2861
05:11:26,830 --> 05:11:31,770
If you choose to accept the local 10-plus units highway as mitigation that achieves compatibility,

2862
05:11:32,470 --> 05:11:35,710
we urge you to reject the proposed road improvement agreement.

2863
05:11:36,430 --> 05:11:40,910
Limit the number of trucks to 2010 levels until the entire haul road is completed

2864
05:11:40,910 --> 05:11:45,090
and cap the number of trucks on the completed haul road at 120.

2865
05:11:45,970 --> 05:11:50,630
We would remind the commissioners that alternate routes exist and that limited

2866
05:11:50,630 --> 05:11:57,270
temporary use of them as a condition of approval, would lessen the business impact on GCC energy,

2867
05:11:57,830 --> 05:12:01,590
and facilitate timely completion of GCC's Hall Road.

2868
05:12:02,410 --> 05:12:05,390
Mitigation delayed is mitigation denied.

2869
05:12:06,550 --> 05:12:07,570
Thank you for your attention.

2870
05:12:37,220 --> 05:12:39,640
Mr. President, while she's opening that up, I'll go ahead and introduce myself.

2871
05:12:40,100 --> 05:12:44,200
My name is Jeff Robbins, 670 Second Avenue here in Durango, Colorado.

2872
05:12:44,480 --> 05:12:45,840
I represent all of these folks.

2873
05:12:45,840 --> 05:12:49,680
They're members of Southwest Colorado Advocates, which is a nonprofit.

2874
05:12:50,520 --> 05:12:55,620
Its members are owners of property along County Road 120 and 120 North.

2875
05:12:57,460 --> 05:12:59,800
So we wanted you to hear from them.

2876
05:13:00,260 --> 05:13:04,060
They are the impact of folks involved in all this.

2877
05:13:04,620 --> 05:13:08,280
I'm going to sum it up with a little bit of a presentation now.

2878
05:13:08,280 --> 05:13:17,560
Now, they all, to a T, don't want this road in its improved state.

2879
05:13:18,080 --> 05:13:22,300
As Mr. Grantham just said, that will change the neighborhood.

2880
05:13:22,660 --> 05:13:29,640
It will turn it from the rural neighborhood that it is now to a different neighborhood because of the road.

2881
05:13:30,120 --> 05:13:33,840
Now, having said that, though, they're all willing to allow it to happen

2882
05:13:33,840 --> 05:13:36,920
and willing to allow all of the improvements to take place

2883
05:13:36,920 --> 05:13:41,400
and willing to allow GCC to have the ultimate number of trucks that they

2884
05:13:41,400 --> 05:13:48,340
desire, which is 120. Between now and then, though, they ask you to put a hard

2885
05:13:48,340 --> 05:13:55,080
number on the number of trucks at 55. And here's how we get there. We

2886
05:13:55,080 --> 05:14:00,680
submit that GCC is asking you to waive and not apply a current county design

2887
05:14:00,680 --> 05:14:04,500
standards for the first five years of this project. This you cannot and should

2888
05:14:04,500 --> 05:14:09,780
not do. You cannot ignore and fail to apply county code provisions applicable to this

2889
05:14:09,780 --> 05:14:15,400
project, and you should not because it's fundamentally unfair. But having identified that as a problem,

2890
05:14:15,540 --> 05:14:16,700
we will propose a solution.

2891
05:14:18,840 --> 05:14:24,180
All right. So here are some of the standards. Development-generating traffic, which is

2892
05:14:24,180 --> 05:14:28,220
above the current surface-level capacities of the roads, is prohibited unless improved

2893
05:14:28,220 --> 05:14:42,820
to meet service level needs. GCC's proposed truck level is beyond what is allowable on

2894
05:14:42,820 --> 05:14:47,980
County Road 120 right now. I think we've heard from pretty much everybody that there's agreement

2895
05:14:47,980 --> 05:14:53,700
on that. Here are the road design standards. The project produces a large volume load of

2896
05:14:53,700 --> 05:14:55,840
traffic that is beyond the capacity of the current road.

2897
05:14:58,670 --> 05:14:59,850
This is the design standard.

2898
05:15:00,000 --> 05:15:05,840
That is applicable. Jim Davis spoke to it. The applicant spoke to it. Our engineers spoke to it.

2899
05:15:06,200 --> 05:15:10,140
There are five things that are needed, a surface width of 24 feet plus three shoulders,

2900
05:15:10,720 --> 05:15:16,060
60 feet of right-of-way. It must be paved and it must meet site distance and horizontal alignment.

2901
05:15:18,760 --> 05:15:25,500
Everyone agrees the standard applies. Staff, GCC, Mr. Hodston.

2902
05:15:27,020 --> 05:15:29,340
It's a shall, guys. It's not a may.

2903
05:15:29,860 --> 05:15:34,780
New developments shall be required to construct improvements to existing roads on-site and off-site

2904
05:15:34,780 --> 05:15:37,200
in accordance with their projected impact on these roads.

2905
05:15:39,680 --> 05:15:45,640
This is a required standard. You can only approve this if the application meets all required standards

2906
05:15:45,640 --> 05:15:48,320
and you determine it to be compatible, which we'll talk about.

2907
05:15:51,610 --> 05:15:55,470
Compliance with the standard is required up front and phasing is not allowed.

2908
05:15:56,610 --> 05:15:59,490
With regard to commercial projects in this community,

2909
05:16:00,810 --> 05:16:03,890
oftentimes offsite improvements need to be engaged in.

2910
05:16:04,350 --> 05:16:10,690
Those need to take place before the new development uses those roads.

2911
05:16:12,090 --> 05:16:15,790
La Plata County Code does not allow the standard to be met via phasing the improvements.

2912
05:16:17,030 --> 05:16:21,330
However, GCC is asking the applicant proposes to achieve these minimum requirements

2913
05:16:21,330 --> 05:16:24,630
via an executed RIA capturing the improvements

2914
05:16:24,630 --> 05:16:27,010
within a phased development schedule.

2915
05:16:28,030 --> 05:16:30,130
We don't believe GCC can ask you to do that.

2916
05:16:33,070 --> 05:16:35,010
Jim is put in a tough spot.

2917
05:16:35,550 --> 05:16:38,690
He's gone on record saying that he's okay with this.

2918
05:16:39,050 --> 05:16:41,290
We will allow them to continue to transport the coal

2919
05:16:41,290 --> 05:16:42,810
prior to completing the reconstruction

2920
05:16:43,330 --> 05:16:46,070
of the North 6.4 miles of County Road 120

2921
05:16:46,070 --> 05:16:47,310
to current standards.

2922
05:16:49,410 --> 05:16:51,610
County staff is in a tough spot too.

2923
05:16:51,610 --> 05:16:54,310
And they admit this is not the typical approach.

2924
05:16:55,230 --> 05:16:59,310
Projects compliant with the county code typically complete all public improvements prior to

2925
05:16:59,310 --> 05:17:00,570
commencement of the permitted use.

2926
05:17:01,430 --> 05:17:05,510
I would suggest that county projects are always required to construct necessary improvements

2927
05:17:05,510 --> 05:17:07,210
before the commercial use starts up.

2928
05:17:10,990 --> 05:17:14,230
Here's staff's justification in page 11 of the staff report.

2929
05:17:14,390 --> 05:17:18,830
With this existing use and outstanding land use permit, additional tools are sometimes

2930
05:17:18,830 --> 05:17:20,650
needed to bring the project into compliance.

2931
05:17:22,800 --> 05:17:24,820
We are sympathetic to staff, as we mentioned.

2932
05:17:24,820 --> 05:17:29,240
It's been put in a tough spot, but it cannot create additional tools out of thin air.

2933
05:17:29,940 --> 05:17:34,080
The tools that are available to you are the ones contained in your land use code.

2934
05:17:34,800 --> 05:17:39,160
GCC cannot simply suggest that the county waive application of this standard for the first

2935
05:17:39,160 --> 05:17:44,260
five years and allow the coal mine to access over an admitted non-code compliant road

2936
05:17:44,260 --> 05:17:48,980
during that time frame, nor can the county develop a non-code-based mitigation measures

2937
05:17:48,980 --> 05:17:53,780
no matter how nice they may be and substitute them for the objective road design standards

2938
05:17:53,780 --> 05:17:54,820
contained within the code.

2939
05:17:57,560 --> 05:17:58,920
DCC proposes mitigation.

2940
05:17:59,620 --> 05:18:02,060
Staff admits the compliance occurs once all the road

2941
05:18:02,060 --> 05:18:03,000
improvements are accomplished.

2942
05:18:05,020 --> 05:18:10,240
Here's why I suggest that you can't not apply Title 74,

2943
05:18:10,540 --> 05:18:13,660
Chapter 91, upfront and require all the improvements.

2944
05:18:14,160 --> 05:18:15,940
And it's because that is the code.

2945
05:18:16,100 --> 05:18:19,320
And the intent of your road design section is to provide

2946
05:18:19,320 --> 05:18:21,500
the design engineer with standards that will ensure

2947
05:18:21,500 --> 05:18:24,080
the design and construction of roadways, which will

2948
05:18:24,080 --> 05:18:30,660
incorporate high engineering qualities and provide the public a safe and durable roadway.

2949
05:18:31,440 --> 05:18:36,600
You have standards in your book for a reason. You don't create standards by pulling mitigation

2950
05:18:36,600 --> 05:18:40,480
tools out of the air for the first three or four years while the road is not compliant.

2951
05:18:42,560 --> 05:18:49,580
We submit that if you waive application of 7491 at the outset and allow the applicant

2952
05:18:49,580 --> 05:18:54,340
to use the county road before undertaking the required and necessary improvements,

2953
05:18:54,340 --> 05:18:57,480
that this would likely be an arbitrary and capricious decision.

2954
05:18:57,880 --> 05:19:01,320
And it would be a decision that certainly contradicts the black and white objective

2955
05:19:01,320 --> 05:19:02,780
county road design standards.

2956
05:19:04,560 --> 05:19:05,960
So where does that leave us?

2957
05:19:06,880 --> 05:19:11,700
GCC is requesting you approve the application as is, with a phase set of road improvements.

2958
05:19:12,620 --> 05:19:15,100
We are concerned for you to approve it that way.

2959
05:19:15,380 --> 05:19:18,120
We were concerned that that would force us to ask a judge

2960
05:19:18,120 --> 05:19:20,940
whether that action is indeed arbitrary or capricious

2961
05:19:20,940 --> 05:19:22,800
and contrary to county road standards.

2962
05:19:22,800 --> 05:19:28,420
I think we've made the case that it would be, that you've got to apply 7491 up front

2963
05:19:28,900 --> 05:19:34,040
and that they can only use the road once it is in a completed application.

2964
05:19:37,000 --> 05:19:38,840
So here's the no lawsuit option.

2965
05:19:39,500 --> 05:19:43,260
And you've heard it from all the neighbors, you've heard it from Mr. Hoxton, phase it,

2966
05:19:43,620 --> 05:19:45,620
but reduce the trucks to 55 in the interim.

2967
05:19:46,480 --> 05:19:50,760
As you heard from Mr. Hoxton, the 55 number, he's not very comfortable with it.

2968
05:19:50,760 --> 05:19:53,560
He would rather it be a number less than that.

2969
05:19:54,300 --> 05:20:00,180
But in talking with him, he believes that you can get a reasonable compromise for interim truck numbers

2970
05:20:00,180 --> 05:20:06,040
assuring a reasonable degree of safety at 5580Ts, or 110-roundship trucks.

2971
05:20:06,640 --> 05:20:10,880
The neighbors have agreed. They're not happy with it either, but they've agreed to 55.

2972
05:20:11,560 --> 05:20:14,540
This number also correlates with the 2010 truck levels.

2973
05:20:15,040 --> 05:20:19,200
Therefore, it correlates with any grandfathered argument GCC may have to run trucks.

2974
05:20:19,200 --> 05:20:23,040
The grandfathered argument is their argument that they were told earlier and they didn't

2975
05:20:23,040 --> 05:20:23,640
need a permit.

2976
05:20:24,120 --> 05:20:26,740
And then in 2010 they were told they needed a permit.

2977
05:20:27,080 --> 05:20:30,220
So it's at that 2010 level, the number of trucks they're running there.

2978
05:20:30,560 --> 05:20:33,460
That's the number of trucks that they could argue somehow or another that they could

2979
05:20:33,460 --> 05:20:34,520
run without any permit.

2980
05:20:35,180 --> 05:20:38,060
So the 55 works from a safety perspective.

2981
05:20:38,540 --> 05:20:42,820
The neighbors are willing to choke it down and it correlates with the 2010 levels.

2982
05:20:43,320 --> 05:20:46,680
It's also consistent with the Hay Gulch folks.

2983
05:20:47,780 --> 05:20:51,260
If GCC needs to run more trucks, I would submit that's irrelevant.

2984
05:20:51,640 --> 05:20:56,180
I would ask you to Google your land use code for the word economic, and you won't find

2985
05:20:56,180 --> 05:20:56,360
it.

2986
05:20:56,440 --> 05:20:58,160
It's not part of your land use code criteria.

2987
05:20:59,040 --> 05:21:03,040
But if they need more trucks in the interim, between now and the time all the improvements

2988
05:21:03,040 --> 05:21:06,000
are done, they can always run them south like they used to.

2989
05:21:06,380 --> 05:21:10,260
And we heard from Mr. Hogston that that may take some work, but it is a viable

2990
05:21:10,260 --> 05:21:10,780
alternative.

2991
05:21:13,060 --> 05:21:16,000
Finally, under this option, GCC controls the pace of development.

2992
05:21:17,300 --> 05:21:21,220
They could do all the improvements this year, and then they get 120 trucks.

2993
05:21:23,220 --> 05:21:26,420
We suggest you remove phasing from the RA altogether.

2994
05:21:27,100 --> 05:21:30,120
That it's 55, and then once all the improvements are done,

2995
05:21:30,580 --> 05:21:33,560
it jumps to what they have asked for, which is 120.

2996
05:21:34,280 --> 05:21:37,620
The only interim measure is the 5580T on 120 North.

2997
05:21:38,120 --> 05:21:41,060
And again, that doesn't preclude them from running additional trucks south.

2998
05:21:42,680 --> 05:21:52,160
So I've got for you revised findings and conditions, and I've got for you a revised road improvements agreement.

2999
05:21:52,680 --> 05:21:55,480
Having identified a problem, we wanted to provide you with a solution.

3000
05:21:59,190 --> 05:22:05,690
What the revised findings do in Redline is remove the phasing out of it, and it removes the 80 and the 100.

3001
05:22:05,970 --> 05:22:11,910
It substitutes in 55. That's essentially the changes, and I've got copies for you, Carolyn, as well.

3002
05:22:11,910 --> 05:22:17,110
So, for the reasons articulated by my clients and co-counselor, Mr. Danielson, we submit

3003
05:22:17,110 --> 05:22:21,850
this project as not compatible, air, water, noise, dust, traffic.

3004
05:22:22,290 --> 05:22:28,990
We submit they've not met their requirement to establish compatibility, but we understand

3005
05:22:28,990 --> 05:22:31,150
that the county is looking hard for a win-win.

3006
05:22:31,610 --> 05:22:36,110
We understand and we appreciate the amount of time and effort the county and GCC for

3007
05:22:36,110 --> 05:22:37,670
that matter have put into this application.

3008
05:22:38,190 --> 05:22:39,690
It has been a monumental task.

3009
05:22:40,310 --> 05:22:47,510
But we think that you can only find a win-win if in the interim a safe number of trucks

3010
05:22:47,510 --> 05:22:50,730
is traveling on that road before all the improvements are done.

3011
05:22:51,370 --> 05:22:56,870
Therefore we request you amend the findings, conditions, and the RIA consistent with our

3012
05:22:56,870 --> 05:23:02,930
revisions to allow at most 55 ADTs during the interim and prior to the code-required

3013
05:23:02,930 --> 05:23:04,710
improvements to County Road 120 North.

3014
05:23:04,710 --> 05:23:09,110
remove all other phasing and let the applicant control its own destiny to

3015
05:23:09,110 --> 05:23:13,310
achieve the ultimate 120 ADTs that it desires after the improvements are

3016
05:23:13,310 --> 05:23:13,670
completed.

3017
05:23:15,940 --> 05:23:21,060
Thank you. Any of our clients or here, our expert is here if you have

3018
05:23:21,060 --> 05:23:21,960
any questions for us.

3019
05:23:26,580 --> 05:23:37,320
State Cynthia Robach Southwest Advocates 213 West 26th Street. We had one

3020
05:23:37,320 --> 05:23:42,340
resident who didn't have time to speak and if it's okay with you he's going to

3021
05:23:42,340 --> 05:23:48,640
get a pink slip and speak during the public. You have five minutes and twenty seconds.

3022
05:23:53,690 --> 05:24:00,930
I'm Tom, Dr. Tom Williams, 1644 County Road 120 Hesperus and a landowner in County Road 120

3023
05:24:00,930 --> 05:24:05,670
for 20 years and I oppose this class 2 permit. I'm a board certified fellowship

3024
05:24:05,670 --> 05:24:09,450
trained otolaryngologist and I treat disease of the upper airway in

3025
05:24:09,450 --> 05:24:10,710
perineasal sinuses.

3026
05:24:11,550 --> 05:24:16,470
Astonishingly, GCC has increased their coal production by 300 percent since moving to their

3027
05:24:16,470 --> 05:24:18,310
new location with no permit.

3028
05:24:18,830 --> 05:24:23,350
With this higher production, truck traffic has correspondingly increased to a dangerous

3029
05:24:23,350 --> 05:24:27,810
level as demonstrated by the January McFeel report.

3030
05:24:28,310 --> 05:24:32,550
This report indicates that increased truck traffic on the unpaid portions of the road

3031
05:24:32,550 --> 05:24:36,470
produces dust that exceeds the EPA air quality standards.

3032
05:24:36,470 --> 05:24:43,870
As a physician, I personally have personal experience treating adverse effects of the toxic levels of road dust.

3033
05:24:44,250 --> 05:24:48,730
The road dust has been shown to exacerbate asthma, sinus disease, and pulmonary disease.

3034
05:24:49,310 --> 05:24:56,210
Of course, particles from the road dust will lodge in the upper airway system and will cause severe irritation.

3035
05:24:56,930 --> 05:25:04,950
Effects are more pronounced in infants and the elderly and those with asthma are shown by our residents.

3036
05:25:04,950 --> 05:25:07,810
These particles are also linked to respiratory cancers.

3037
05:25:08,550 --> 05:25:16,670
We've been told by GCC that their mitigation will reduce dust to the level of truck tires that height.

3038
05:25:17,210 --> 05:25:22,090
I personally have witnessed dust clouds and hay gulfs residents have video and picture evidence

3039
05:25:22,090 --> 05:25:26,650
of dust plumes billowing above the trucks, coating surrounding trees and rooftops.

3040
05:25:26,950 --> 05:25:32,710
Contrary to the conclusion of GCC's Trinity Consultants, at present level of truck traffic,

3041
05:25:32,710 --> 05:25:40,890
the dust concentrations on CR 120 extend far past the roadway as demonstrated by the McFeel report.

3042
05:25:41,490 --> 05:25:48,150
This is also demonstrated in the literature. A CSU paper shows that for every vehicle traveling

3043
05:25:48,150 --> 05:25:55,810
on an unpaved road, one mile for one day per year, one ton of dust is deposited along the

3044
05:25:55,810 --> 05:26:03,110
corridor extending 500 feet out from the median. That's for passenger cars, for

3045
05:26:03,110 --> 05:26:07,770
coal trucks. At present levels, we calculated it to be 50,000 tons in six

3046
05:26:07,770 --> 05:26:12,570
months. Also, dust from 120 is a particular concern due to the coal in

3047
05:26:12,570 --> 05:26:16,350
the dust that drops from the trucks. This has not been studied, but coal

3048
05:26:16,350 --> 05:26:20,270
dust contains heavy metals and is a carcinogen. The amount in our road

3049
05:26:20,270 --> 05:26:26,630
dust is unknown. And since the PEM 2.5 is linked with premature mortality and cardiovascular

3050
05:26:26,630 --> 05:26:32,050
disease and respiratory illness, this is a danger. The second health concern is noise

3051
05:26:32,050 --> 05:26:33,830
pollution from the high volume of trucks.

3052
05:26:35,890 --> 05:26:38,770
The high decibel episodic intermittent noise

3053
05:26:38,770 --> 05:26:43,510
production is one of the worst forms of noise pollution and is related to cardiovascular

3054
05:26:43,510 --> 05:26:48,810
disease, heart attacks, hypertension, and behavioral changes. These include fatigue,

3055
05:26:48,810 --> 05:26:54,610
decrease working capacity and disturbed family relationships and high stress.

3056
05:26:55,290 --> 05:27:00,090
The effects are worsened when sleep is disturbed, and this can cause irreversible

3057
05:27:00,090 --> 05:27:05,090
medical complications, including decreased alertness that leads to accidents,

3058
05:27:05,790 --> 05:27:10,530
injuries, and death. The medication, the mitigation effects or efforts by

3059
05:27:10,530 --> 05:27:15,970
GCC to control the dust and noise are ineffectual due to the sheer volume

3060
05:27:15,970 --> 05:27:22,490
of trucks. The McFeel report concluded that decreasing the truck numbers to 2010 levels

3061
05:27:22,860 --> 05:27:29,930
of 55 per day significantly reduces dust production enough to mitigate the damaging effects. I

3062
05:27:29,930 --> 05:27:33,910
agree with that conclusion, and I urge the commissioners to protect the health of the

3063
05:27:33,910 --> 05:27:41,110
Plata County residents and return the GCC truck traffic to 2010 levels until the

3064
05:27:41,110 --> 05:27:44,570
road is paved for its entire length. Thank you very much.

3065
05:27:44,570 --> 05:27:47,500
Thank you.

3066
05:27:47,900 --> 05:27:48,240
All

3067
05:27:53,070 --> 05:28:00,430
right. Thank you for your testimony and questions from commissioners.

3068
05:28:06,100 --> 05:28:12,400
Okay. I'll be happy to start this time around. Thank you very much for your presentation.

3069
05:28:13,360 --> 05:28:16,200
A lot of thought went into all of your comments.

3070
05:28:17,440 --> 05:28:23,600
I guess, Mr. Hudson, I'd like to start with some questions for you regarding your study.

3071
05:28:26,740 --> 05:28:36,280
I guess to make it simple, why 55? Why not 60? Why not 65? 70? Can you explain your rationale?

3072
05:28:36,800 --> 05:28:47,260
Sure. You know, when we looked at the 55, it's essentially the number, it's the adjusted number to six days a week.

3073
05:28:48,480 --> 05:28:56,040
It's those 2010 levels at the time the letter was sent to GCC telling them they needed to get a permit.

3074
05:28:56,840 --> 05:29:05,300
So essentially anything, the way I think of it, anything above that level, if you increase traffic generation or loading,

3075
05:29:05,840 --> 05:29:09,020
is new traffic, it's new development traffic.

3076
05:29:09,020 --> 05:29:15,000
So that's the way I see it, is anything above that level should be considered new traffic.

3077
05:29:16,080 --> 05:29:19,200
And so that's the main point there.

3078
05:29:19,300 --> 05:29:24,200
And again, the Hague Gulch Advisory Committee also recommended that.

3079
05:29:24,560 --> 05:29:28,980
So some of the other reasons, you know, the 55,

3080
05:29:31,160 --> 05:29:32,040
you know, it's mentioned,

3081
05:29:32,040 --> 05:29:38,240
And if you have 80, it's basically every 5.8 minutes,

3082
05:29:38,400 --> 05:29:39,900
I think, during peak times.

3083
05:29:40,080 --> 05:29:41,340
It's essentially the truck volumes.

3084
05:29:44,100 --> 05:29:48,120
There's a built-in 20% variation to that.

3085
05:29:48,460 --> 05:29:50,940
So the 55 is actually the monthly average.

3086
05:29:51,520 --> 05:29:56,080
And they're allowed to deviate up to 20% on any given day

3087
05:29:57,800 --> 05:29:59,460
above that 55 number.

3088
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:09,980
So, for a good chunk of the days, in looking at their past truck data, there is quite a bit

3089
05:30:09,980 --> 05:30:16,380
of variation there taking advantage of that. And that 20 percent, that 55, considers that,

3090
05:30:16,640 --> 05:30:21,680
you know, that many a day they're going to have quite a bit more than that 55. And then

3091
05:30:21,680 --> 05:30:26,840
some days they'll have less than that. But it's those days, and it's a significant

3092
05:30:26,840 --> 05:30:35,180
number of days, when you have 20% over that, you've got that much more exposure to that

3093
05:30:35,180 --> 05:30:37,020
much more volume of trucks on the roadway.

3094
05:30:37,720 --> 05:30:38,980
So that's the other part of that.

3095
05:30:46,560 --> 05:30:52,300
And then again, to consider the roadway standards, and this is common of a lot of counties,

3096
05:30:53,060 --> 05:30:57,360
a local roadway talks about in terms of number of single-family dwelling units.

3097
05:30:58,740 --> 05:31:04,460
It's equivalent to 380 T as equivalent to 30 single-family homes.

3098
05:31:05,420 --> 05:31:11,480
And it's a general mix of traffic as it's mostly residential with maybe some businesses thrown in.

3099
05:31:11,880 --> 05:31:17,880
But in this case, we're talking about a much greater, it's a commercial,

3100
05:31:18,400 --> 05:31:21,420
it's dominated by large commercial trucks.

3101
05:31:21,560 --> 05:31:23,880
It's not your typical local roadway.

3102
05:31:23,880 --> 05:31:28,320
So that's that's another reason I looked at that as well. It was because it's not your typical

3103
05:31:28,960 --> 05:31:31,540
local roadway traffic mix. So

3104
05:31:32,240 --> 05:31:34,740
Thank you. And for the record you mentioned

3105
05:31:35,580 --> 05:31:37,180
The company could split

3106
05:31:37,980 --> 05:31:38,580
it's

3107
05:31:39,520 --> 05:31:47,440
The route and take some of the trucks south that would be if it wanted an increase over the 55 on county road

3108
05:31:47,440 --> 05:31:52,100
120 north if it needed more trucks per day to meet its

3109
05:31:53,020 --> 05:31:55,520
obligations, you could send that traffic south.

3110
05:31:55,980 --> 05:32:00,000
Sure. The 55 is basically your trip loaded truck.

3111
05:32:00,300 --> 05:32:04,140
That's your trip generation. That's what the mine generates in terms of traffic.

3112
05:32:04,640 --> 05:32:08,440
You can choose to load it all onto 120 north

3113
05:32:08,440 --> 05:32:12,600
and keep that 55 on that road and not do anything

3114
05:32:12,600 --> 05:32:15,840
and not load it south. Or you could take a look at

3115
05:32:15,840 --> 05:32:20,240
ways that you could, and as I said, 120 south

3116
05:32:20,240 --> 05:32:28,020
and 119 aren't perfect either, but it's a way that I think with some relatively minor

3117
05:32:28,020 --> 05:32:37,240
improvements and some splitting of the traffic, they could get more truck-trip generation and

3118
05:32:37,240 --> 05:32:42,140
more coal production by splitting that up and taking advantage of that.

3119
05:32:42,580 --> 05:32:48,720
Did you analyze in your report what exact improvements would need to be made to the

3120
05:32:48,720 --> 05:32:50,040
road going to the south?

3121
05:32:50,580 --> 05:32:55,120
Well, to start with, I looked at, in my letter of April 7th,

3122
05:32:55,820 --> 05:33:00,100
I show a potential improvement down at Highway 140.

3123
05:33:01,320 --> 05:33:04,560
I think part of the reason there was a problem before is that

3124
05:33:04,560 --> 05:33:06,780
trucks couldn't make...

3125
05:33:06,780 --> 05:33:08,620
Can I bring this up and show it to you?

3126
05:33:11,140 --> 05:33:15,900
It's in the reported figure A7 in our...

3127
05:33:15,900 --> 05:33:18,840
attachment, is it? Do you have an attachment number?

3128
05:33:19,620 --> 05:33:25,120
It's figure A7. It's the last page of the letter.

3129
05:33:26,740 --> 05:33:29,020
I've got 76 other letters.

3130
05:33:31,500 --> 05:33:38,170
April...I don't have the...it's our April 7 supplemental letter.

3131
05:33:49,790 --> 05:33:56,470
Anyway, it basically shows a radius improvement on the...

3132
05:33:57,750 --> 05:34:02,590
It's basically on the southwest corner of County Road 119 and Highway 140.

3133
05:34:04,090 --> 05:34:05,250
Attachment 72.

3134
05:34:06,670 --> 05:34:13,330
Because of the skew of the intersection, I can understand why they couldn't, trucks without an improvement,

3135
05:34:13,790 --> 05:34:20,030
like trying to use it as it exists today, you can't make the turn because the truck would swing into the oncoming traffic.

3136
05:34:20,030 --> 05:34:24,010
So what they did was they, I believe that what they did was run it straight across and

3137
05:34:24,010 --> 05:34:27,730
that's creating, created some problems with the school and the parent pickup.

3138
05:34:28,050 --> 05:34:34,070
But if they would, if this radius were improved, and from what I could tell, there may be

3139
05:34:34,070 --> 05:34:35,170
the right of way to do it.

3140
05:34:36,070 --> 05:34:41,990
If you improve that radius, this truck can make that turn and enter that southbound lane without

3141
05:34:41,990 --> 05:34:43,450
encroaching in the northbound lane.

3142
05:34:43,590 --> 05:34:48,870
So that's just one possibility that they could look at for an improvement that could help.

3143
05:34:49,410 --> 05:34:55,830
And there's some other radius improvements that they could do along 119 and that 120,

3144
05:34:56,110 --> 05:34:58,870
116 route that they could look into.

3145
05:34:59,810 --> 05:35:03,690
And then again, applying some of those things that they've done on 120 North,

3146
05:35:03,870 --> 05:35:07,310
the speeds to maybe make that a viable route.

3147
05:35:07,490 --> 05:35:13,210
And again, it's only for a short period of time until they get the road finished on 120 North.

3148
05:35:13,210 --> 05:35:18,910
So it's not there. It's not being used in perpetuity. It's just for a short period of time

3149
05:35:21,690 --> 05:35:22,730
Thank you.

3150
05:35:24,780 --> 05:35:27,360
Hi next question is for staff

3151
05:35:30,780 --> 05:35:37,620
Right ask mr. As long as Mr. Hudson's up on the mr. Hudson continued this line of questioning for you

3152
05:35:38,740 --> 05:35:45,220
Commissioner lackled asked a question that I had intended to ask but I have a follow-up and that is you talked about a

3153
05:35:45,220 --> 05:35:52,780
truck exiting off of 119 onto Highway 140. What issues are related to that intersection

3154
05:35:52,780 --> 05:36:01,720
for enter only, let's say? For enter only, it's probably more costly

3155
05:36:01,720 --> 05:36:08,180
and higher because if you enter traffic that way, you're probably looking at a left turn

3156
05:36:08,180 --> 05:36:15,620
improvement on the state highway, which is it can get pretty extensive at 65 miles an

3157
05:36:15,620 --> 05:36:20,940
hour to do a left turn when you have to typically widen both sides, you have to widen on the

3158
05:36:20,940 --> 05:36:27,660
north side. So the entering component is probably more extensive in terms of improvements.

3159
05:36:28,100 --> 05:36:37,260
If you exit the trips that way and if they're exiting south, you probably don't have

3160
05:36:37,260 --> 05:36:44,280
enough traffic from what I could tell to justify the need to build an acceleration lane. Now

3161
05:36:44,280 --> 05:36:49,980
that's up to CDOT to make that determination. But looking at the numbers, it didn't look

3162
05:36:49,980 --> 05:36:56,900
like it necessarily required an acceleration lane going south. So all that perhaps could

3163
05:36:56,900 --> 05:37:02,860
be needed is the radius improvement so that the truck could make that turn.

3164
05:37:03,660 --> 05:37:12,060
My understanding was that the loaded trucks were more post-higher risk than unloaded trucks.

3165
05:37:12,680 --> 05:37:18,280
And so if that was the exit route, if it ran from the north end to the south end, those

3166
05:37:18,280 --> 05:37:24,300
would be loaded trucks dealing with the five-county road intersections and more hills and so on

3167
05:37:24,300 --> 05:37:31,520
that made that less desirable as an exit route for loaded trucks.

3168
05:37:31,520 --> 05:37:33,340
That's something to consider, sure.

3169
05:37:34,320 --> 05:37:38,640
But looking at that section to the south,

3170
05:37:39,520 --> 05:37:41,820
it's much less sort of mountainous terrain

3171
05:37:41,820 --> 05:37:45,260
than you have further onto County Road 120 North.

3172
05:37:46,020 --> 05:37:47,700
The grades are more rolling.

3173
05:37:48,420 --> 05:37:51,680
They're not as severe in terms of the grades.

3174
05:37:54,830 --> 05:37:55,330
Thank you.

3175
05:38:01,150 --> 05:38:02,010
I have no questions.

3176
05:38:02,410 --> 05:38:02,710
Thank you.

3177
05:38:02,730 --> 05:38:04,090
Can I ask one way there?

3178
05:38:04,090 --> 05:38:04,210
Sure.

3179
05:38:07,330 --> 05:38:12,690
When you say that improvements can be done to 120 South or minor improvements, do you

3180
05:38:12,690 --> 05:38:19,570
also have an opinion as to how many trucks could go that route safely or vehicles just

3181
05:38:19,570 --> 05:38:23,150
in general, given the improvements that you have contemplated?

3182
05:38:26,900 --> 05:38:27,320
Yeah.

3183
05:38:27,480 --> 05:38:33,120
I wouldn't probably – I mean, I think you could probably do half the trucks, the

3184
05:38:33,120 --> 05:38:38,080
exiting vehicles that perhaps want to go to the South, to New Mexico, which is

3185
05:38:38,080 --> 05:38:43,980
probably three-quarters of them. I mean, I would want to take a look at a little more

3186
05:38:43,980 --> 05:38:50,680
detail before I make a determination as to the number. But I think it's worthy of...

3187
05:38:50,680 --> 05:38:53,960
Between 25 to 30, is that what you're saying?

3188
05:38:56,120 --> 05:39:04,480
That's 55 times three-quarters of that. But I would, you know, I'd want to look at in

3189
05:39:04,480 --> 05:39:09,900
more detail before I make an assessment, you know, put a definite number and put my name

3190
05:39:09,900 --> 05:39:14,900
on it and all that. But one of my points is I think it's worth looking at that route as

3191
05:39:14,900 --> 05:39:24,340
an option to give an opportunity for more trucks than just using 120 North and doing the 55.

3192
05:39:24,340 --> 05:39:25,320
Thank

3193
05:39:27,690 --> 05:39:29,010
you.

3194
05:39:30,750 --> 05:39:32,310
Mr. Davis, a question.

3195
05:39:33,530 --> 05:39:39,490
Mr. Danielson stated that the, I believe it was Mr. Danielson, stated that the county

3196
05:39:39,490 --> 05:39:43,150
has no study supporting the 80 truck trips per day.

3197
05:39:43,330 --> 05:39:45,030
Would you agree with that statement?

3198
05:39:46,290 --> 05:39:51,270
The county does not typically prepare, excuse me, the county does not typically prepare

3199
05:39:51,270 --> 05:39:55,850
a traffic study for development that's typically done by the developers consultant.

3200
05:39:55,850 --> 05:40:01,750
In this case here, GCC had Mike Olsen with Roadrunner Engineering provided traffic study.

3201
05:40:01,930 --> 05:40:02,850
We evaluate that.

3202
05:40:02,970 --> 05:40:03,910
We comment on that.

3203
05:40:04,610 --> 05:40:09,110
That's typically how we approach most development proposals.

3204
05:40:09,570 --> 05:40:14,670
So other than our local knowledge and our review of that report, we did not complete

3205
05:40:14,670 --> 05:40:19,010
a traffic impact study independently from the one that GCC did.

3206
05:40:21,620 --> 05:40:22,100
Thank you.

3207
05:40:22,520 --> 05:40:24,760
And then a question from Mrs. White.

3208
05:40:24,760 --> 05:40:38,430
I believe I heard earlier that the company, if paving adequately mitigates the dust and

3209
05:40:38,430 --> 05:40:44,410
noise impacts that you do not plan to install the barriers that you have in your report?

3210
05:40:45,870 --> 05:40:52,830
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, again, Caroline White for the record on behalf of the applicant.

3211
05:40:52,830 --> 05:40:54,110
No, that is not the case.

3212
05:40:54,510 --> 05:41:00,370
The condition of approval for the buffers is available regardless.

3213
05:41:00,730 --> 05:41:06,810
What I said was that our study, the modeling predicts that whether the barriers are installed

3214
05:41:06,810 --> 05:41:10,730
or not, the noise levels will be below the state limits.

3215
05:41:11,630 --> 05:41:16,230
If the private entities along the road elect to have the barriers installed, that will

3216
05:41:16,230 --> 05:41:20,590
further reduce the noise limits, but it's not that if the company paves it that they're

3217
05:41:20,590 --> 05:41:21,090
not available.

3218
05:41:21,090 --> 05:41:23,290
They're both conditions of approval.

3219
05:41:24,690 --> 05:41:25,630
Thank you.

3220
05:41:25,930 --> 05:41:37,000
And then one final line of questioning for Mr. Danielson regarding air quality.

3221
05:41:37,420 --> 05:41:45,120
You mentioned in closing that you wished that you hoped that the commissioners would ask

3222
05:41:45,120 --> 05:41:48,160
you some questions, more questions regarding air quality.

3223
05:41:48,680 --> 05:41:50,180
Can you discuss?

3224
05:41:51,260 --> 05:41:57,060
I can definitely address the question of why our study is different from their study.

3225
05:41:57,140 --> 05:41:58,860
Okay. Thank you. I would appreciate that.

3226
05:41:59,340 --> 05:42:02,380
Our expert has already done that in What's Attachment 52.

3227
05:42:03,100 --> 05:42:10,740
Look, none of the differences between the two studies amount to a hill of beans except for two.

3228
05:42:11,380 --> 05:42:18,120
Okay. I mean, there's a long discussion of something that in the end would mean a difference of 0.04%.

3229
05:42:18,120 --> 05:42:21,780
I'm leaving that out. There are two issues, right?

3230
05:42:22,220 --> 05:42:31,140
One issue is we know that if you put mag chloride and water on a dirt road, there's less dust, right?

3231
05:42:31,780 --> 05:42:42,000
And our expert says, based on a bunch of studies that he cites, that that reduces the dust by 50%.

3232
05:42:43,060 --> 05:42:49,400
Their expert says it reduces dust by 84 percent.

3233
05:42:50,400 --> 05:42:58,780
Okay, so if you assume 84 percent dust controlled by the water in magchloride as opposed to 50 percent, you get a lot of reduction.

3234
05:42:59,640 --> 05:43:07,000
I will say that the Trinity expert, Mr. Masuda,

3235
05:43:07,000 --> 05:43:13,860
He says that he cites a reference for the 84% figure,

3236
05:43:14,220 --> 05:43:18,240
but the reference refers to control by a product called soil cement,

3237
05:43:18,700 --> 05:43:25,760
which is a bonding kind of synthetic material that creates kind of a surface on there.

3238
05:43:25,960 --> 05:43:31,640
And mag chloride is certainly a much less effective, but that's where he gets the 84%.

3239
05:43:31,640 --> 05:43:32,740
And that's why we disagree.

3240
05:43:33,020 --> 05:43:36,080
We don't think soil cement and mag chloride are equivalent.

3241
05:43:36,080 --> 05:43:44,180
The second issue is, he referenced this, what percentage of the material in the road is silt?

3242
05:43:45,000 --> 05:43:52,200
I will say, if you look at our report, we tried to hire Dave Trautner to go out and actually take a sample to tell us,

3243
05:43:52,300 --> 05:43:54,900
but the road was frozen and we couldn't do it.

3244
05:43:56,200 --> 05:44:02,820
So our expert says 8.4% is silt, fine particles.

3245
05:44:03,580 --> 05:44:07,540
Mr. Masura says that it's 1.5%.

3246
05:44:08,760 --> 05:44:11,320
Here's where we got the 8.4%.

3247
05:44:11,320 --> 05:44:16,930
It's when GCC submitted their permit application

3248
05:44:17,380 --> 05:44:19,680
to the State Air Quality Control Commission

3249
05:44:19,680 --> 05:44:21,900
for the road that's on their site

3250
05:44:21,900 --> 05:44:24,700
that goes from their plant out to the 120.

3251
05:44:25,460 --> 05:44:28,920
What figure did they use in there for the silt content?

3252
05:44:29,360 --> 05:44:30,720
8.4%.

3253
05:44:30,720 --> 05:44:39,320
Okay, so we use their own figure, and now they're telling us they need to reduce their own figure by 80%.

3254
05:44:40,260 --> 05:44:44,060
And so that's where the two differences are.

3255
05:44:45,840 --> 05:44:46,600
Thank you.

3256
05:44:49,680 --> 05:44:51,060
Any questions for now, Mr. Chair?

3257
05:44:51,820 --> 05:44:52,440
Thank you.

3258
05:44:53,000 --> 05:44:53,140
Questions?

3259
05:44:53,140 --> 05:44:54,360
I

3260
05:44:56,500 --> 05:44:59,100
would just ask for clarification that everybody

3261
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:10,880
No one's opposed to batching. Is that true? Okay, that's what I understood, but I wanted to get something formal from you guys.

3262
05:45:13,640 --> 05:45:15,640
And I think that's it for me. Thanks.

3263
05:45:18,420 --> 05:45:20,620
I don't have any questions at this time.

3264
05:45:23,140 --> 05:45:31,820
Mr. Chairman, I don't have anything of the neighbors, but could I ask a question to staff regarding something that came up during the presentation by the neighbors?

3265
05:45:32,460 --> 05:45:32,840
Yes.

3266
05:45:32,840 --> 05:45:45,440
And that is Ms. Mathias made reference to the noise caused by the steep grade on that hill,

3267
05:45:45,520 --> 05:45:48,200
or the variance was issued, and I was wondering, is it true?

3268
05:45:48,640 --> 05:45:53,560
Have we looked at the sound impacts of that grade?

3269
05:45:54,560 --> 05:45:57,760
I know it was raised a long time ago, so it's not a new issue.

3270
05:46:03,440 --> 05:46:07,980
My understanding of the wave engineering report, and I certainly think there's an opportunity

3271
05:46:07,980 --> 05:46:16,180
for that gentleman to speak to the report, but the hill itself was not monitored precisely

3272
05:46:16,180 --> 05:46:18,280
because there were no residences along the hill.

3273
05:46:18,700 --> 05:46:20,880
So the residences are where the data was collected.

3274
05:46:21,560 --> 05:46:27,280
The hill has been modeled, and there are those results in the latest report.

3275
05:46:28,100 --> 05:46:33,460
So there is that factor that it was not a specific data collection point.

3276
05:46:34,100 --> 05:46:41,700
And also, there was mixed determinations as to whether or not there's value in putting buffering along the hill.

3277
05:46:42,300 --> 05:46:46,240
It could, yes, potentially knock down noise, but it could also redirect noise.

3278
05:46:46,780 --> 05:46:50,360
And it's also a concern as to where would that improvement go.

3279
05:46:50,860 --> 05:46:53,600
Typically, you make those improvements outside the right-of-way.

3280
05:46:53,600 --> 05:47:03,880
So it just created more questions and answers, and that's why there was not a formal recommendation for there to be buffering on the portion of the help.

3281
05:47:08,960 --> 05:47:09,640
Thank you.

3282
05:47:12,320 --> 05:47:13,380
Any further questions?

3283
05:47:17,020 --> 05:47:19,500
Any further comment? Mr. Danielson?

3284
05:47:19,500 --> 05:47:29,600
I had Old Morning hanging on the line waiting for his turn, our expert Dr. Carl Mount, who's going to make a brief statement.

3285
05:47:30,160 --> 05:47:40,740
He's not available this afternoon, so he just sent me his statement, and if I could just distribute this for the record.

3286
05:47:41,500 --> 05:47:43,680
Can you speak into the microphone?

3287
05:47:43,980 --> 05:47:44,400
Thank you.

3288
05:47:44,400 --> 05:47:50,960
Yes, Mr. Mount was on the phone or on the streaming all morning and was ready to call

3289
05:47:50,960 --> 05:47:54,860
in on the phone, and he was available all morning, but he just can't do it this afternoon.

3290
05:47:55,280 --> 05:47:58,960
So he wrote a one-page statement, and I'd just like to submit it.

3291
05:48:00,080 --> 05:48:00,640
Thank you.

3292
05:48:01,500 --> 05:48:02,700
Why do you have any objections?

3293
05:48:04,560 --> 05:48:05,660
We do not have an objection.

3294
05:48:06,480 --> 05:48:07,160
Mr. Smith.

3295
05:48:08,620 --> 05:48:09,280
Sorry, what was the question?

3296
05:48:09,280 --> 05:48:11,740
Any objections to the admission of this statement?

3297
05:48:15,120 --> 05:48:16,060
It would be a testimony.

3298
05:48:16,620 --> 05:48:17,080
Objection.

3299
05:48:18,560 --> 05:48:21,900
Mr. Chair, could Mr. Danielson just

3300
05:48:21,900 --> 05:48:24,900
summarize the nature of this statement

3301
05:48:24,900 --> 05:48:27,340
for our listening public and those in the audience

3302
05:48:27,340 --> 05:48:28,980
that aren't going to see our copy?

3303
05:48:29,120 --> 05:48:35,460
It relates to the waste pile at the King Cull one site

3304
05:48:35,460 --> 05:48:38,520
and the monitoring program for that waste pile.

3305
05:48:38,980 --> 05:48:39,400
OK.

3306
05:48:39,820 --> 05:48:40,260
Thank you.

3307
05:48:40,260 --> 05:48:45,380
I suspect GCC has a rebuttal to make in that event.

3308
05:48:45,880 --> 05:48:48,500
Yeah, I'd like to retract my statement that we have no objection.

3309
05:48:48,700 --> 05:48:54,020
I would say rather that this falls into the same category as all the evidence introduced today related to the KING-1 pile.

3310
05:48:54,480 --> 05:48:59,620
We believe that staff's finding that it's not related to this application is correct.

3311
05:49:00,120 --> 05:49:02,780
Should the Commission find otherwise and you wish to address that issue,

3312
05:49:02,800 --> 05:49:06,900
then we agree that this and our information as well ought to be included in the record.

3313
05:49:06,900 --> 05:49:12,040
But if you agree with that conclusion, then we would suggest that none of that information should be included in the record.

3314
05:49:14,690 --> 05:49:15,170
Discussion?

3315
05:49:15,450 --> 05:49:15,610
Sure.

3316
05:49:16,330 --> 05:49:16,690
Yes.

3317
05:49:17,010 --> 05:49:21,510
My staff's position is the same, although we prefer the option where none of that is included in the record.

3318
05:49:22,470 --> 05:49:23,750
Can you speak up?

3319
05:49:24,450 --> 05:49:27,150
Yes, I'm sorry. This is Adam Smith with the County Attorney's Office.

3320
05:49:27,450 --> 05:49:36,390
We agree with GCC's counsel's assessment of the situation, although we would prefer that none of this information be included in the record.

3321
05:49:36,390 --> 05:49:40,770
it's irrelevant to the land use that is being considered today.

3322
05:49:43,300 --> 05:49:48,000
So with respect to the discussion, I think it's appropriate for this to sit to the side,

3323
05:49:48,140 --> 05:49:56,260
but I don't believe we've made a determination as to the role of how the King I waste,

3324
05:49:56,400 --> 05:50:00,080
I'm not even going to call it King I, how I'm going to call it the solid waste disposal

3325
05:50:00,080 --> 05:50:02,960
as it relates to this land use is handled.

3326
05:50:03,160 --> 05:50:06,760
So for now, probably set it aside, but have it at the ready.

3327
05:50:17,720 --> 05:50:21,880
Mr. Chair, if I may, this is Adam Smith with the County Attorney's Office.

3328
05:50:22,560 --> 05:50:30,280
First, I just wanted to note for the record that we, county staff has not received the documents that Mr. Robbins handed out,

3329
05:50:30,420 --> 05:50:32,820
and we would like an opportunity to review those.

3330
05:50:34,420 --> 05:50:38,360
I believe all the copies were handed up there. If there was a way to get one, that would be helpful.

3331
05:50:39,360 --> 05:50:45,340
And also, although it was not necessarily contemplated, I believe at the end of staff's original presentation,

3332
05:50:45,340 --> 05:50:48,640
It was noted that we had 18 minutes and one second remaining on the clock.

3333
05:50:49,320 --> 05:50:53,260
If possible, I would like five minutes of that time to respond to an issue that was raised.

3334
05:51:00,290 --> 05:51:03,650
Before we get off on that, we need to decide what we're going to do with that last exhibit.

3335
05:51:04,030 --> 05:51:05,750
So is it on the side or is it in?

3336
05:51:06,210 --> 05:51:07,050
Set it aside.

3337
05:51:08,230 --> 05:51:11,710
We're talking about Mr. Blunt's testimony.

3338
05:51:14,070 --> 05:51:15,050
It's on the side.

3339
05:51:17,140 --> 05:51:21,800
Well, my question is how it relates to truck trips and this permit.

3340
05:51:21,800 --> 05:51:24,440
And whether, I mean,

3341
05:51:27,970 --> 05:51:30,550
does our council believe it's related or not?

3342
05:51:30,690 --> 05:51:32,430
I think she needs a minute to review it.

3343
05:51:53,150 --> 05:51:58,170
It appears as if it deals entirely with the waste issue.

3344
05:51:59,390 --> 05:52:00,910
Which is outside of this argument.

3345
05:52:02,170 --> 05:52:02,550
Yes.

3346
05:52:02,730 --> 05:52:04,310
Okay. I would support it being on the side.

3347
05:52:05,830 --> 05:52:09,070
We will place that document on the side for now.

3348
05:52:13,270 --> 05:52:19,070
Adam, could you restate your request for time?

3349
05:52:19,990 --> 05:52:28,310
Yes, I believe we had 18 minutes left over at the end of our presentation, although it was not necessarily contemplated that we reserved any of that time.

3350
05:52:28,790 --> 05:52:34,370
With the Chair's discretion, we would certainly like to use about five minutes of that to clarify an issue that was raised.

3351
05:52:36,330 --> 05:52:36,790
Discussion?

3352
05:52:37,430 --> 05:52:40,470
I don't know. Who's keeping time? Were there 18 minutes left?

3353
05:52:47,930 --> 05:52:56,890
minutes. The other question that Mr. Smith raised was the proposed amendments to the RIA

3354
05:52:56,890 --> 05:53:02,770
and the conditions which I think we can put those on the site for right now too. We'll

3355
05:53:02,770 --> 05:53:08,570
see where the discussion leads us. Right, we will grant you five minutes.

3356
05:53:09,270 --> 05:53:14,950
Thank you. And this relates back to the question that was asked to Jim Davis earlier. But it's

3357
05:53:14,950 --> 05:53:20,310
important for county staff for us to, I think, clarify which aspects of the code are informing

3358
05:53:20,310 --> 05:53:28,930
different parts of the recommendation. So that's the initial comment. It was noted by the

3359
05:53:28,930 --> 05:53:34,910
neighbors, I will refer to them just for ease of reference, that county staff's proffered

3360
05:53:34,910 --> 05:53:41,350
option, the 80 trucks at the initial phases doesn't meet the code, specifically 74.91.

3361
05:53:42,210 --> 05:53:46,150
And those 74.91 would be referencing our road standards.

3362
05:53:48,190 --> 05:53:54,070
I would offer that based on their argument, the way they're analyzing our code, their

3363
05:53:54,070 --> 05:53:59,730
offered solution, the 55 trucks equally doesn't meet the code, 74.91.

3364
05:54:00,650 --> 05:54:05,470
Instead, county staff's position is that both options technically meet the code.

3365
05:54:05,990 --> 05:54:12,830
The only variables county staff has ever negotiated with GCC is the timing of when the road will

3366
05:54:12,830 --> 05:54:16,330
come into compliance, not if the road will come into compliance, not what the code standards

3367
05:54:16,330 --> 05:54:17,750
are when it comes into compliance.

3368
05:54:19,130 --> 05:54:26,250
Because the only variable we've ever negotiated is the timing, both options, 80 and 55,

3369
05:54:26,250 --> 05:54:29,870
meet Chapter 74-91 based on our analysis.

3370
05:54:30,790 --> 05:54:35,350
Thereby, one informs AD verses 55 is not 74-91.

3371
05:54:35,630 --> 05:54:36,530
It's compatibility.

3372
05:54:37,570 --> 05:54:39,510
And I would note that the neighbors on traffic engineer

3373
05:54:39,770 --> 05:54:44,290
rely on compatibility metrics, measures, to justify the 55.

3374
05:54:45,570 --> 05:54:46,850
That's an important distinction

3375
05:54:46,850 --> 05:54:50,110
because it is not being driven by 74-91.

3376
05:54:50,290 --> 05:54:52,210
It's being driven by the compatibility standards

3377
05:54:52,210 --> 05:54:54,510
which dictates the number of trucks of that first phase.

3378
05:54:54,510 --> 05:54:55,610
Thank

3379
05:54:59,580 --> 05:55:01,400
you. Questions for staff?

3380
05:55:03,520 --> 05:55:05,600
I don't have any questions for staff.

3381
05:55:08,130 --> 05:55:08,590
No questions.

3382
05:55:09,790 --> 05:55:10,470
Thank you.

3383
05:55:10,750 --> 05:55:10,930
Thank you.

3384
05:55:11,450 --> 05:55:17,690
Mr. Chairman, I do have – it's kind of like the – I'd like to have input again.

3385
05:55:18,070 --> 05:55:25,530
We didn't hear from the Chief Fort Lewis Mesa fire district before, but he – he

3386
05:55:25,530 --> 05:55:29,410
spoke only about his recommendations as it related to the emergency response plan.

3387
05:55:29,410 --> 05:55:36,030
But, since the issue of the loop route came up, my understanding was that he does have

3388
05:55:36,030 --> 05:55:41,770
an opinion as it relates to the appropriateness of a loop route, and Mr. Anderson, are you

3389
05:55:41,770 --> 05:55:42,930
available to comment on that?

3390
05:55:43,470 --> 05:55:45,570
May he come forward, Mr. Chairman?

3391
05:55:46,030 --> 05:55:46,770
Yes, please.

3392
05:55:50,920 --> 05:55:54,100
Chris Anderson, Fire Chief Forlows, Mesa Fire Protection District.

3393
05:55:54,540 --> 05:56:00,040
I did submit agency comments that they're included in your packet about concerns about

3394
05:56:00,040 --> 05:56:06,060
the southern routes and that there seemed to be more traffic challenges on those southern

3395
05:56:06,060 --> 05:56:07,380
routes in the northern route.

3396
05:56:08,220 --> 05:56:12,100
And I can answer any questions concerning that, if you'd like.

3397
05:56:13,280 --> 05:56:13,720
Yes.

3398
05:56:14,220 --> 05:56:21,420
I remember, I believe, that you specifically referred to access in the event of an emergency.

3399
05:56:21,420 --> 05:56:30,440
They're being a challenge or a problem if both routes were closed due to accidents.

3400
05:56:30,700 --> 05:56:32,920
I don't know if you could just elaborate on what that was.

3401
05:56:33,340 --> 05:56:35,740
Yeah, I don't think I was the one who brought up that,

3402
05:56:35,780 --> 05:56:43,700
but it has been discussed throughout the interaction between GCC and the community

3403
05:56:43,700 --> 05:56:51,120
about if there was using a loop route that if we had an accident on one area that it may

3404
05:56:51,120 --> 05:57:01,320
cause inaccessibility issues, but specifically I really don't see it as a major concern.

3405
05:57:02,040 --> 05:57:02,980
Okay, thank you.

3406
05:57:03,440 --> 05:57:06,540
Anything further?

3407
05:57:07,460 --> 05:57:10,000
I have no questions, Commissioner.

3408
05:57:10,580 --> 05:57:11,000
Thank you.

3409
05:57:11,000 --> 05:57:12,160
We

3410
05:57:20,160 --> 05:57:29,820
are running, well let's see, it's about 3 o'clock, we're scheduled for a break at 3, but we do have public comment.

3411
05:57:30,240 --> 05:57:33,680
Do you, commissioners, rather keep going?

3412
05:57:34,200 --> 05:57:36,520
Okay, we will move into public comment.

3413
05:57:41,000 --> 05:57:45,720
I have public comment for William Thomas Williamson.

3414
05:57:47,280 --> 05:57:49,040
So you, thank you.

3415
05:57:55,710 --> 05:57:59,850
Yeah, I have her card. Did you fill out a pink slip?

3416
05:58:14,330 --> 05:58:19,270
We'll probably have to take your comment after these. We received these.

3417
05:58:20,230 --> 05:58:27,790
So we'll move to – do you have a deadline or do you have –

3418
05:58:34,290 --> 05:58:35,950
we read her comment.

3419
05:58:35,950 --> 05:58:38,030
And we

3420
05:58:59,630 --> 05:59:03,870
will probably go ahead and go in the order that we have, the pink slips.

3421
05:59:05,650 --> 05:59:06,850
Matt Watson.

3422
05:59:14,400 --> 05:59:15,400
Donna Nazario.

3423
05:59:17,620 --> 05:59:18,720
Matt, come up.

3424
05:59:19,680 --> 05:59:20,880
Randy Linscott.

3425
05:59:22,180 --> 05:59:23,800
And Ann Marquardt.

3426
05:59:27,210 --> 05:59:27,450
Hi.

3427
05:59:27,650 --> 05:59:28,010
Good afternoon.

3428
05:59:28,130 --> 05:59:29,210
My name is Matt Watson.

3429
05:59:29,670 --> 05:59:32,590
I live at 156 Timber Drive, Durango, Colorado.

3430
05:59:32,970 --> 05:59:35,250
That's a Durango West One Subdivision.

3431
05:59:35,730 --> 05:59:40,910
I am the Human Resources Coordinator for GCC Energy and have been with the company for

3432
05:59:40,910 --> 05:59:42,150
five years this December.

3433
05:59:42,890 --> 05:59:47,050
Before I talk a little bit about GCC, I'd like to share my personal story and how it

3434
05:59:47,050 --> 05:59:48,370
has impacted La Plata County.

3435
05:59:49,210 --> 05:59:53,870
I worked in the building material and industry for nearly 20 years and was there when the

3436
05:59:53,870 --> 05:59:58,390
housing bubble burst in Phoenix, so I know firsthand how employees and families are

3437
05:59:58,390 --> 05:59:59,930
affected with business flows and companies.

3438
06:00:00,000 --> 06:00:01,760
These are forced to close their doors.

3439
06:00:02,560 --> 06:00:05,320
Personally, I lost just about everything and ended up moving to Durango.

3440
06:00:05,820 --> 06:00:08,580
Worked temporarily for my brother's construction company.

3441
06:00:09,460 --> 06:00:11,700
I was fortunate to get the job with GCC.

3442
06:00:12,040 --> 06:00:13,040
It's a great company.

3443
06:00:13,180 --> 06:00:15,180
I think probably 100 people applied for this position.

3444
06:00:16,700 --> 06:00:19,580
I rented rooms for a couple of years to share around Durango.

3445
06:00:19,800 --> 06:00:21,580
Saved up money, sold my house in Phoenix.

3446
06:00:22,520 --> 06:00:24,580
Bought a small lot in Durango, West 1.

3447
06:00:24,900 --> 06:00:27,000
Hired a contractor, had a house built.

3448
06:00:27,900 --> 06:00:29,700
Now my 19-year-old daughter lives with me.

3449
06:00:29,700 --> 06:00:31,920
She goes to Southwest Community College.

3450
06:00:32,660 --> 06:00:34,620
She works part-time at Bed Bath and Beyond.

3451
06:00:35,900 --> 06:00:40,880
So you can see just on my own what an impact a good job can have on the local economy.

3452
06:00:41,700 --> 06:00:43,840
Just a little bit on GCC and its employees.

3453
06:00:44,460 --> 06:00:45,360
I have a degree in business.

3454
06:00:45,560 --> 06:00:48,200
I've been working for several large reputable companies in my career.

3455
06:00:48,820 --> 06:00:53,440
I can tell you, without a doubt, GCC is the best company I've had the opportunity to work for.

3456
06:00:53,900 --> 06:00:56,840
The company truly cares about their employees, the environment,

3457
06:00:56,840 --> 06:00:59,040
and the communities in which we operate.

3458
06:01:00,740 --> 06:01:04,020
As of today, we have 115 employees working at the mine.

3459
06:01:04,500 --> 06:01:07,180
In addition to that, approximately 200 truckers

3460
06:01:07,180 --> 06:01:09,500
and countless other vendors, business suppliers

3461
06:01:09,500 --> 06:01:10,780
that support our operation.

3462
06:01:11,540 --> 06:01:14,360
A factor in the families of those involved in the mine,

3463
06:01:14,400 --> 06:01:17,620
and I'm sure in excess of 1,000 people would be affected

3464
06:01:17,620 --> 06:01:20,160
should our ability to operate be compromised.

3465
06:01:21,000 --> 06:01:24,020
Our average rate of pay for our salaried and hourly employees

3466
06:01:24,020 --> 06:01:29,980
combined is $31.69 an hour. In addition to that, our employees have a competitive full

3467
06:01:29,980 --> 06:01:36,020
benefit package. These are all really good jobs that are vital to our economy. I know

3468
06:01:36,020 --> 06:01:39,740
all our guys personally and through benefit enrollment and questions from spouses, I know

3469
06:01:39,740 --> 06:01:44,640
a lot of their family members and have met their kids. We have a great group of hard-working

3470
06:01:45,180 --> 06:01:51,980
men and women who work for GCC and support the surrounding communities. We even had

3471
06:01:51,980 --> 06:01:55,580
example where we, the degree to what we care about the neighbors and safety, we

3472
06:01:55,580 --> 06:01:59,180
had two employees that we actually had to terminate because they they were

3473
06:01:59,180 --> 06:02:02,220
speeding on the road. We warned them they didn't heed the warnings. We

3474
06:02:02,220 --> 06:02:05,500
actually terminated their employment just for that. They were good employees

3475
06:02:05,500 --> 06:02:10,120
other than that. So personally and I'm very proud to work for GCC as I know

3476
06:02:10,120 --> 06:02:14,420
all my co-workers are as well. I hope La Plata County is proud as well to have

3477
06:02:14,420 --> 06:02:18,460
a world-class company like GCC and its community. Thank you for your time

3478
06:02:18,460 --> 06:02:24,460
consideration. Thank you. Randy? Randy Linscott?

3479
06:02:29,180 --> 06:02:32,040
Randy Linscott lives on

3480
06:02:32,040 --> 06:02:40,840
County Road 120, 22 years. I am located where both the 90 turns are on South 120

3481
06:02:40,840 --> 06:02:49,040
intersection. In the wintertime many cars go off and go off the turn on slick

3482
06:02:49,040 --> 06:02:56,060
pavement and go into ditch and knock down fences. This year, I myself was aware of two

3483
06:02:56,060 --> 06:03:05,060
such occurrences on the front of my house, but I'm sure there were probably more.

3484
06:03:10,730 --> 06:03:11,950
Anne Marklart,

3485
06:03:14,640 --> 06:03:14,960
Anne,

3486
06:03:19,980 --> 06:03:25,160
hers says, parallels with this case and others, negligent county

3487
06:03:25,160 --> 06:03:26,240
planning decisions.

3488
06:03:28,870 --> 06:03:36,710
John Lee, if you could come up. Dan Huntington, you're on deck, and

3489
06:03:36,710 --> 06:03:40,270
Derek Schneider as well. John?

3490
06:03:40,830 --> 06:03:49,890
Hi, John Lee, 11442 County Road 120, Pespers, Colorado, owner, operator, Silver River Ranch.

3491
06:03:49,890 --> 06:03:52,510
I make my living there, raise my children there.

3492
06:03:53,410 --> 06:03:59,850
I have a working area of that County Road 120 that fronts for about a half mile.

3493
06:04:01,590 --> 06:04:07,390
And the traffic item, it's very compelling to hear all of this this morning and into

3494
06:04:07,390 --> 06:04:08,070
this afternoon.

3495
06:04:08,190 --> 06:04:12,590
And I don't understand the ideas of sending it somewhere else.

3496
06:04:13,530 --> 06:04:15,150
And that's going to solve the problem.

3497
06:04:15,150 --> 06:04:21,230
So as it keeps being made note of, run it a loop, run it further, run it somewhere else,

3498
06:04:21,290 --> 06:04:22,770
let's increase exposure.

3499
06:04:23,830 --> 06:04:30,370
If the statements are true about silt, noise, health, that it's affecting somebody's way of life,

3500
06:04:31,510 --> 06:04:34,330
property value, safety, and traffic,

3501
06:04:36,790 --> 06:04:38,750
then we should just spread that around to everyone

3502
06:04:38,750 --> 06:04:44,710
and affect even more roads and more ways of life that haven't had to deal with that in the past,

3503
06:04:44,710 --> 06:04:48,950
that didn't buy anywhere near that location.

3504
06:04:49,670 --> 06:04:52,270
Twenty years ago, when I went to look to purchase,

3505
06:04:53,270 --> 06:04:57,590
I looked on 120 North in the Cougar area and didn't buy,

3506
06:04:58,010 --> 06:05:01,590
in part because of traffic and mines and things like that

3507
06:05:01,590 --> 06:05:02,950
and other opportunities.

3508
06:05:03,950 --> 06:05:08,610
But now to say, well, we need to share this pain

3509
06:05:08,610 --> 06:05:12,730
with other people because the pain has gotten too great

3510
06:05:12,730 --> 06:05:16,510
and then cite all of these problems and say what we'd like to do is pass these

3511
06:05:16,510 --> 06:05:22,070
problems on to other people, I think is very misplaced. Thank you. Thank you.

3512
06:05:24,490 --> 06:05:24,810
Dan?

3513
06:05:35,050 --> 06:05:43,890
Dan Huntington, 7080 County Road 120, quarter mile, 5,000 feet south of the

3514
06:05:43,890 --> 06:05:45,730
entrance to King II.

3515
06:05:48,010 --> 06:05:53,470
I have no problems with the mine being that close. I very

3516
06:05:53,470 --> 06:05:59,490
very rarely hear any truck traffic except in the early morning when the air is still.

3517
06:06:00,090 --> 06:06:09,530
But anyway, fourth generation resident, my grandparents, bought and put together 2,500

3518
06:06:09,530 --> 06:06:10,390
acres there.

3519
06:06:11,010 --> 06:06:20,420
We did have up to 4,000 acres and when the government raised the interest rates, they

3520
06:06:20,420 --> 06:06:27,200
went to 24%. We had to get rid of some of our property to maintain our home

3521
06:06:27,200 --> 06:06:32,840
places and I guess it's our fault that these people are here complaining about

3522
06:06:32,840 --> 06:06:36,540
the truck traffic because that was all our property at one time.

3523
06:06:38,660 --> 06:06:40,860
But anyway they

3524
06:06:40,860 --> 06:06:44,900
talked about changing the character. They moved in here, changed the

3525
06:06:44,900 --> 06:06:50,620
character of hey goats. There wasn't a residence up there besides McHugh's

3526
06:06:50,620 --> 06:06:54,660
down there in the bottom and a couple of residents up on the north end.

3527
06:06:58,380 --> 06:07:05,640
Another thing I just want to comment on the length of time that it's taken to do to get

3528
06:07:05,640 --> 06:07:06,720
this process going.

3529
06:07:07,680 --> 06:07:14,120
Every time they get something agreed upon, something else comes up.

3530
06:07:14,340 --> 06:07:15,300
It's just been a snowball.

3531
06:07:15,300 --> 06:07:19,880
well. And I appreciate coming to a conclusion.

3532
06:07:22,920 --> 06:07:25,980
Truck traffic to the south. Truck traffic

3533
06:07:25,980 --> 06:07:32,760
to the south was never willy-nilly. The only time they run that traffic to the south was

3534
06:07:32,760 --> 06:07:40,740
in inclement weather or somebody lived down on the south end. Accidents on the south

3535
06:07:40,740 --> 06:07:49,960
end. There's been numerous, numerous trucks, rollovers on the 93 corners. There's one

3536
06:07:49,960 --> 06:07:56,580
corner down by 117. There's been five cars off of that corner this winter, off in

3537
06:07:56,580 --> 06:07:56,960
the ditch.

3538
06:08:00,240 --> 06:08:03,480
And I want to state that I'm not represented by the Southwest

3539
06:08:03,480 --> 06:08:06,980
West Advocates. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner.

3540
06:08:07,280 --> 06:08:07,680
Thank you.

3541
06:08:09,140 --> 06:08:10,240
Derek Schneider.

3542
06:08:12,700 --> 06:08:13,600
Derek Schneider.

3543
06:08:15,950 --> 06:08:20,910
Derek Schneider says, I live on County 120 North and run that road every day.

3544
06:08:21,330 --> 06:08:27,330
The change to our community since 2010 when King 2 ramped up has been tremendous.

3545
06:08:27,990 --> 06:08:30,730
The road is devoid of human traffic.

3546
06:08:30,730 --> 06:08:36,510
when trucks were running at 50 plus a day, we hardly noticed.

3547
06:08:37,310 --> 06:08:42,230
Please constrain traffic to that level during the construction period.

3548
06:08:45,580 --> 06:08:46,020
Donna,

3549
06:08:48,380 --> 06:08:49,440
your number, 10.

3550
06:08:51,760 --> 06:08:54,060
Jack Luellen, you're up on deck.

3551
06:08:57,170 --> 06:08:59,010
Thank you for letting me speak.

3552
06:08:59,190 --> 06:09:00,090
I'm Donna Nazario.

3553
06:09:00,310 --> 06:09:02,650
I live at 689 Cougar Way, Hespers.

3554
06:09:03,930 --> 06:09:06,350
And I'm going to speak on a couple of things.

3555
06:09:06,350 --> 06:09:11,710
Mainly I'm going to speak for Denise Baca, who is a real estate agent for Your Castle

3556
06:09:11,710 --> 06:09:18,510
Realty and has compiled in request of the neighbors, she compiled a report for everyone

3557
06:09:19,290 --> 06:09:25,230
talking about real estate sales and how it compares to the sale of real estate in our

3558
06:09:25,230 --> 06:09:27,970
area that is impacted by the mind.

3559
06:09:28,810 --> 06:09:31,750
So on the first page, and I'm going to run through this as quick as I can.

3560
06:09:31,890 --> 06:09:32,390
Bear with me.

3561
06:09:32,670 --> 06:09:33,590
It's a lot of information.

3562
06:09:33,590 --> 06:09:37,530
And just to give you the heads-up, public comment is limited to three minutes, so.

3563
06:09:37,850 --> 06:09:44,510
Okay. Right now, the average price, sales price of a property is between 384 and 415.

3564
06:09:44,650 --> 06:09:47,110
This is for residential rule, okay?

3565
06:09:47,710 --> 06:09:52,050
And this is all dates from January 2015.

3566
06:09:53,010 --> 06:09:57,670
Right now, days on the market is 164, between 150 and 164.

3567
06:09:57,790 --> 06:09:59,250
It's getting a little faster now.

3568
06:09:59,770 --> 06:10:02,190
The property sales are moving faster.

3569
06:10:03,050 --> 06:10:15,350
And so moving along, since I don't have much time, we're going to jump right into the fact that since January 2015, active listings you'll see are five right now.

3570
06:10:15,630 --> 06:10:19,110
Only two have sold in the last year and a half out in this area.

3571
06:10:19,230 --> 06:10:23,890
We're talking 120, and we'll go through the subdivisions.

3572
06:10:24,410 --> 06:10:28,930
You will see down further there's a lot of expired properties that did not sell.

3573
06:10:28,930 --> 06:10:31,930
And there's a lot of withdrawn properties.

3574
06:10:33,750 --> 06:10:39,750
You know, one of the things that Denise said, she was showing property out there,

3575
06:10:39,850 --> 06:10:44,870
and several people comment on, well, we really don't even look at that area

3576
06:10:44,870 --> 06:10:49,550
because of what we've seen in the newspaper and the articles about the impact in that area.

3577
06:10:49,970 --> 06:10:54,770
So I'm speaking as a homeowner also, but the bottom line is,

3578
06:10:54,770 --> 06:11:01,250
Some of us, our lifetime investment is in our homes,

3579
06:11:01,430 --> 06:11:04,030
and our homes are dramatically dropped.

3580
06:11:04,550 --> 06:11:07,870
I recently sold my home on Cougar Mesa.

3581
06:11:09,430 --> 06:11:14,350
If you skip to the letter, you'll see the reports here

3582
06:11:14,350 --> 06:11:17,170
on the sales price, and I'm a little stressed

3583
06:11:17,170 --> 06:11:18,790
because I'm not having enough time.

3584
06:11:20,070 --> 06:11:26,530
Welles Fargo, I went through the process of selling because I could not sell.

3585
06:11:26,990 --> 06:11:28,070
So I went into foreclosure.

3586
06:11:30,090 --> 06:11:32,670
And Welles Fargo did a study also on my home.

3587
06:11:32,770 --> 06:11:33,890
The value was at 410.

3588
06:11:34,410 --> 06:11:36,810
They needed to net 383 for this to sell.

3589
06:11:37,150 --> 06:11:38,950
I only got 268 for my house.

3590
06:11:39,690 --> 06:11:40,930
It's a big loss for me.

3591
06:11:41,470 --> 06:11:44,930
And I know it's the same thing for a lot of folks out in that area.

3592
06:11:44,930 --> 06:11:51,850
It's a big big deal and this issue has fallen through the cracks and it really needs to be addressed because it is

3593
06:11:51,850 --> 06:11:54,890
impacting more than just noise health

3594
06:11:55,910 --> 06:12:02,850
beauty wildlife and that you will actually see my closing dock in there because this I really want to get clear that this is a

3595
06:12:02,850 --> 06:12:09,470
Real deal this really happened and you'll see all the other properties in that area that have sitting on the market for years

3596
06:12:09,470 --> 06:12:13,610
Way longer than the allotted time of 150 days

3597
06:12:14,430 --> 06:12:22,610
So it's a big deal. It's a big deal to us as neighbors, and it's something that's fallen through the cracks that I think should be on the top of the list.

3598
06:12:23,030 --> 06:12:23,750
Thank you, Scott.

3599
06:12:23,910 --> 06:12:26,490
Ms. Nazario, if I may ask you a couple of questions.

3600
06:12:28,770 --> 06:12:33,210
First of all, I appreciate all of the material that has been put together.

3601
06:12:33,210 --> 06:12:36,310
Can you just talk a little bit more about,

3602
06:12:38,910 --> 06:12:44,410
did the realtor actually, without having to

3603
06:12:44,410 --> 06:12:52,390
go through every page here, actually go through and compare housing prices in Durango versus

3604
06:12:52,390 --> 06:12:54,890
housing prices in Heigolch?

3605
06:12:54,890 --> 06:12:55,290
Absolutely.

3606
06:12:55,290 --> 06:12:55,450
Absolutely.

3607
06:12:55,710 --> 06:13:02,790
And, you know, when we saw large property increases within the city limits of Durango

3608
06:13:02,790 --> 06:13:09,270
two years ago, when the assessor did the last assessment, did we see similar increases in

3609
06:13:09,270 --> 06:13:09,870
hate culture?

3610
06:13:10,230 --> 06:13:10,870
Did it decline?

3611
06:13:11,590 --> 06:13:14,470
And why is there more of an analysis there?

3612
06:13:15,210 --> 06:13:15,850
Excuse me.

3613
06:13:16,390 --> 06:13:18,830
Yes, it absolutely declined.

3614
06:13:18,830 --> 06:13:25,990
As you will see in some of these, you know, some of these numbers here, and I apologize

3615
06:13:25,990 --> 06:13:30,270
because the numbers that you are going to have a hard time reading the prices on,

3616
06:13:30,350 --> 06:13:34,310
those are the numbers in red, and yours are in black and white, and I apologize for that.

3617
06:13:34,570 --> 06:13:37,670
But that shows that these properties sold for negative.

3618
06:13:37,950 --> 06:13:39,770
They sold for less than what their value was.

3619
06:13:40,270 --> 06:13:43,370
And most of these properties, that is the case.

3620
06:13:44,750 --> 06:13:54,250
We mainly targeted Hidden Ridge, Cougar Mesa, and Vista de Ora, and all those

3621
06:13:54,250 --> 06:13:58,690
properties are either expired. There's only two that have sold, I believe, and

3622
06:13:58,690 --> 06:14:04,550
they sold below market value. And so, you know, it's really showing a trend that

3623
06:14:04,550 --> 06:14:08,190
everything out in that area is not selling, and it's sitting on the

3624
06:14:08,190 --> 06:14:11,990
market for, you know, over three years, some of them. It's just, you know,

3625
06:14:11,990 --> 06:14:15,350
it's really, you know, too bad of this scenario.

3626
06:14:15,910 --> 06:14:18,570
And so, yes, to answer your question,

3627
06:14:18,670 --> 06:14:21,490
when everything else is going up in value, you know,

3628
06:14:21,590 --> 06:14:24,030
in our area, it's going dramatically down.

3629
06:14:24,550 --> 06:14:27,010
And so, you know, it's a real problem.

3630
06:14:27,670 --> 06:14:30,050
And I think it's, you know, a main impact is

3631
06:14:30,050 --> 06:14:33,530
because people do see, and it's in the newspaper a lot,

3632
06:14:33,610 --> 06:14:35,250
and people are getting educated now

3633
06:14:35,250 --> 06:14:36,530
what's really going on.

3634
06:14:36,930 --> 06:14:40,070
And, you know, citizens or residents are taking notice,

3635
06:14:40,070 --> 06:14:44,590
ones that want to move out in the country. They're seeing that, you know, yeah, let's

3636
06:14:44,590 --> 06:14:48,530
look at property out in the rural but not in that area. So, you know, it hurts when you

3637
06:14:48,530 --> 06:14:54,870
want to, it really hurt me, you know, when I had to drop over $100,000 to get my house

3638
06:14:54,870 --> 06:14:55,110
sold.

3639
06:14:56,510 --> 06:14:59,770
Mr. Chair, if I may, as the assessor stated.

3640
06:15:00,000 --> 06:15:08,000
Specifically, why he has seen a decline in value from Paygold's, you know, I think, from other

3641
06:15:08,000 --> 06:15:08,900
areas in the county.

3642
06:15:09,580 --> 06:15:15,820
I don't know if the assessor wants to take a stand on, you know, it's GCC and it's what's

3643
06:15:15,820 --> 06:15:21,480
going on, but, you know, it makes you wonder when you do the numbers, and these are all,

3644
06:15:21,980 --> 06:15:27,020
these year-to-date comparisons are all real. They're from the assessor's office, and

3645
06:15:27,020 --> 06:15:28,880
and they're compiled by the Wells Group, actually,

3646
06:15:29,680 --> 06:15:31,660
and they do this every year, so.

3647
06:15:31,740 --> 06:15:33,200
Excuse me, I don't think what we're looking at

3648
06:15:33,200 --> 06:15:34,480
came from the Assessor's Office.

3649
06:15:34,640 --> 06:15:37,720
It came from the Real Estate Association.

3650
06:15:38,460 --> 06:15:40,160
Well, I know, but that's how they pull the numbers.

3651
06:15:41,840 --> 06:15:43,380
They, well, they're based,

3652
06:15:43,540 --> 06:15:45,600
they're actually not based on the Assessor's Office.

3653
06:15:45,720 --> 06:15:48,060
They're based on what Real Estate Brokers report.

3654
06:15:48,860 --> 06:15:51,520
So, the Assessor, based on this information,

3655
06:15:52,100 --> 06:15:54,200
I'm relying on my experience as a Real Estate Broker.

3656
06:15:54,360 --> 06:15:55,240
Yeah, you know.

3657
06:15:55,240 --> 06:16:00,180
Because this is, I don't see anything in here except the things that say property taxes

3658
06:16:00,180 --> 06:16:04,940
and so on that reflects the, anything prepared by the assessor's office.

3659
06:16:05,380 --> 06:16:05,660
Okay.

3660
06:16:06,040 --> 06:16:10,220
I guess what I meant was is the solds do come up in public record.

3661
06:16:10,580 --> 06:16:16,080
So, you know, that's really where it's pulled off is from the solds and the amounts that they actually close for.

3662
06:16:17,260 --> 06:16:18,000
Thank you.

3663
06:16:18,120 --> 06:16:18,340
Thank you very much.

3664
06:16:18,920 --> 06:16:19,460
Thank you, Donna.

3665
06:16:19,640 --> 06:16:20,140
Thanks for your time.

3666
06:16:20,140 --> 06:16:24,120
Jack Llewellyn, Roger, you're on deck.

3667
06:16:28,950 --> 06:16:33,690
Jack Llewellyn, 479 Waysman Road, Durango, Colorado, 81303.

3668
06:16:34,370 --> 06:16:38,150
I'm the Executive Director of the Chamber of Commerce, and we have 825 members.

3669
06:16:39,130 --> 06:16:43,470
We talked about earlier, we heard about quality of life and economic development terms.

3670
06:16:43,930 --> 06:16:46,050
A lot of times they talk about the quality of jobs.

3671
06:16:46,490 --> 06:16:50,610
Because without jobs, you don't have the community and the community cannot thrive.

3672
06:16:50,610 --> 06:16:54,590
There are 120 jobs that we've heard about from GCC Energy,

3673
06:16:55,250 --> 06:17:02,050
all of which have about a $90,000 annual income with benefits.

3674
06:17:02,250 --> 06:17:04,910
They're higher than the average here in La Plata County.

3675
06:17:05,510 --> 06:17:07,170
I've also heard that it hasn't been talked about.

3676
06:17:07,290 --> 06:17:12,010
There's 1,500 families all over the region that heat their homes from GCC coal

3677
06:17:12,010 --> 06:17:13,290
that they get from the coal mine.

3678
06:17:13,810 --> 06:17:15,950
There's nothing in the code to protect these families.

3679
06:17:18,070 --> 06:17:19,770
Conditions that are being proposed today

3680
06:17:19,770 --> 06:17:24,030
They could possibly, I say possibly shut down the mine, it's about the economics.

3681
06:17:24,810 --> 06:17:29,430
We've heard this since 2010, the process has been taking place demonstrating due diligence

3682
06:17:29,430 --> 06:17:29,950
to me.

3683
06:17:30,590 --> 06:17:35,470
Staff has worked diligently with the neighbors, GCC Energy themselves and others.

3684
06:17:36,490 --> 06:17:42,490
There are four different stages of change, denial, resistance, exploration and commitment.

3685
06:17:43,090 --> 06:17:46,270
I recommend you commit to the recommendation to approve this.

3686
06:17:46,830 --> 06:17:50,590
Business indeed predictability in order to continue to operate.

3687
06:17:51,050 --> 06:17:54,110
This approval will hold GCC accountable to their commitments

3688
06:17:54,110 --> 06:17:57,350
and allow them to properly prepare for their own future

3689
06:17:57,350 --> 06:17:58,930
and the future of their employees.

3690
06:17:59,590 --> 06:17:59,930
Thank you.

3691
06:18:00,850 --> 06:18:01,630
Thank you.

3692
06:18:04,280 --> 06:18:04,600
Roger.

3693
06:18:09,650 --> 06:18:10,610
Missioners, good afternoon.

3694
06:18:10,810 --> 06:18:11,530
I'm Roger Zonaratis.

3695
06:18:11,710 --> 06:18:13,490
I'm the director of the Economic Development Alliance.

3696
06:18:13,630 --> 06:18:16,090
I live at 420 Window Lake Trail, Durango, Colorado.

3697
06:18:16,650 --> 06:18:18,290
Just wanted to make a couple of comments today.

3698
06:18:18,290 --> 06:18:23,370
first of all I want to thank the staff and GCC for all the time they've put

3699
06:18:23,370 --> 06:18:26,430
into this project. I've heard from both of them because I try to work a middle

3700
06:18:26,430 --> 06:18:29,470
man ground in my job and I know there's been times it's been really frustrating

3701
06:18:29,470 --> 06:18:32,070
for both sides. I've heard from both of them about that and I know there's been

3702
06:18:32,070 --> 06:18:35,570
times when it's been really good for both sides and I've heard from them when

3703
06:18:35,570 --> 06:18:39,170
that's happened as well. So this has been a very hard process for

3704
06:18:39,170 --> 06:18:41,810
everybody involved and the fact that we've gotten to an agreement like we

3705
06:18:41,810 --> 06:18:46,230
have is a testimony to both sides commitment to our community. So thank you

3706
06:18:46,230 --> 06:18:48,390
all for your efforts and what you've done.

3707
06:18:48,990 --> 06:18:52,490
I also want to thank GCC for investing in La Plata County.

3708
06:18:53,130 --> 06:18:56,270
Since they bought that mine, they've put tens of millions of dollars into our community.

3709
06:18:56,490 --> 06:19:00,870
They've hired over 50 or 60 different people just at the mine alone, plus the contracting

3710
06:19:00,870 --> 06:19:01,690
work they've done here.

3711
06:19:02,170 --> 06:19:05,310
That is a significant investment, and that is not something we have any entitlement

3712
06:19:05,310 --> 06:19:06,870
to as a local area.

3713
06:19:07,310 --> 06:19:10,890
That is something that comes about from a company's profits, a company's desires

3714
06:19:10,890 --> 06:19:15,510
and strategies, and a community's willingness to accept that investment from a company.

3715
06:19:16,170 --> 06:19:18,690
So thank you all for what you've done for our community as well.

3716
06:19:19,390 --> 06:19:24,810
I'm a data geek, and there's something I want to get on the public record, which is regarding GCC's financials.

3717
06:19:25,330 --> 06:19:29,590
GCC is a company here in the United States that's owned by a Mexican company.

3718
06:19:30,150 --> 06:19:35,350
That's been pointed out repeatedly in testimony in the paper and elsewhere that they are a Mexican company.

3719
06:19:35,350 --> 06:19:40,770
Mexican companies report their earnings and their valuation in pesos, not in dollars.

3720
06:19:41,310 --> 06:19:42,730
And it's called the Peso, not the dollar.

3721
06:19:42,890 --> 06:19:45,790
So we don't have a $15 billion valued company here.

3722
06:19:46,310 --> 06:19:48,810
We have a $15 billion Peso company.

3723
06:19:49,250 --> 06:19:50,690
We don't have a billion dollars of profits.

3724
06:19:50,870 --> 06:19:52,630
We have a billion pesos of profits.

3725
06:19:53,350 --> 06:19:55,710
At the conversion rate, it's the U.S. dollar.

3726
06:19:56,130 --> 06:19:58,430
That's about $800 million of valuation.

3727
06:19:59,090 --> 06:20:03,330
That is one-half the size of mercury when it was bought two years ago by Vancev.

3728
06:20:03,770 --> 06:20:06,530
And by the way, Mercury had a neighbor that said,

3729
06:20:06,830 --> 06:20:08,750
we want you to be here, we just don't want the traffic.

3730
06:20:09,350 --> 06:20:11,410
So we had the same situation with Mercury two,

3731
06:20:11,490 --> 06:20:13,370
even three years ago when they were trying to expand as well.

3732
06:20:14,370 --> 06:20:15,670
But why does that matter?

3733
06:20:16,130 --> 06:20:18,110
Even though economics is not addressed in the code,

3734
06:20:18,310 --> 06:20:19,090
it is fundamental.

3735
06:20:20,030 --> 06:20:22,210
And we can all say we don't want the mine to close

3736
06:20:22,210 --> 06:20:23,050
because none of us do.

3737
06:20:23,430 --> 06:20:25,930
But you can impose conditions that make it impossible

3738
06:20:25,930 --> 06:20:28,190
for the mine or any other business to operate.

3739
06:20:28,770 --> 06:20:30,350
And one thing I haven't heard is,

3740
06:20:30,490 --> 06:20:32,830
what are those conditions in which the mine can operate

3741
06:20:32,830 --> 06:20:34,210
and what are the conditions that they cannot.

3742
06:20:34,890 --> 06:20:39,190
And the simple fact is if they can't operate with 55 trucks a day, the mine closes.

3743
06:20:40,110 --> 06:20:43,610
120 people lose their jobs, 1,500 people lose their heating,

3744
06:20:44,070 --> 06:20:46,450
and $400,000 of taxes go out the window.

3745
06:20:47,190 --> 06:20:50,510
We shouldn't be trying to race to the bottom to figure out where that threshold is,

3746
06:20:50,570 --> 06:20:53,710
but there is a threshold at which point a business will no longer operate.

3747
06:20:54,010 --> 06:20:56,710
And that is important when you're considering whether to grant a permit or not

3748
06:20:56,710 --> 06:20:59,850
as to whether you're going to have a business or not to grant a permit too.

3749
06:21:00,130 --> 06:21:00,870
So, thank you.

3750
06:21:01,570 --> 06:21:02,410
Thank you.

3751
06:21:05,580 --> 06:21:06,700
Guy Steece.

3752
06:21:18,240 --> 06:21:19,560
My name is Guy Steece.

3753
06:21:19,640 --> 06:21:22,340
I live on County Road 120 South.

3754
06:21:25,060 --> 06:21:27,020
And I really want to thank

3755
06:21:27,020 --> 06:21:29,460
the Bodd County Planning Staff

3756
06:21:29,460 --> 06:21:31,420
for all the work they have done on this.

3757
06:21:31,500 --> 06:21:32,380
They've worked real hard.

3758
06:21:33,320 --> 06:21:35,320
I was on the original

3759
06:21:36,400 --> 06:21:38,160
Hague-Alts Citizens Committee.

3760
06:21:38,620 --> 06:21:40,840
So I have had to deal with this

3761
06:21:40,840 --> 06:21:42,200
for quite a while.

3762
06:21:42,200 --> 06:21:51,280
and GCC worked hard to alleviate a lot of the problems that the north side was

3763
06:21:51,280 --> 06:21:52,020
coming up with.

3764
06:21:54,700 --> 06:22:00,780
I do represent a lot of the people on the south end of the road

3765
06:22:00,780 --> 06:22:07,540
there and some of the things that I want to bring up there's three times as

3766
06:22:07,540 --> 06:22:15,400
many people there. There's five county road intersections that, if they go south, a lot

3767
06:22:15,400 --> 06:22:22,900
of those county intersections are blind, really hard to see on. And there's almost twice as

3768
06:22:22,900 --> 06:22:31,120
many driveways, whether you go 119 or 120. Many of those houses are really close to

3769
06:22:31,120 --> 06:22:36,720
the – either one of those roads, so there would be a lot more people that would be

3770
06:22:36,720 --> 06:22:39,180
complain about the noise because they're right on the road.

3771
06:22:42,340 --> 06:22:47,760
And both 119 and 120 South are a bus route for schools.

3772
06:22:48,780 --> 06:22:52,480
So that is a big thing to think about.

3773
06:22:53,360 --> 06:23:02,060
And during one of the Hague-Alt citizens' meetings, we had both the county and CDOT

3774
06:23:02,060 --> 06:23:03,140
come and talk to us.

3775
06:23:03,140 --> 06:23:09,920
At that time, CDOT said there would only be one intersection that was fixed.

3776
06:23:10,960 --> 06:23:18,400
So that kind of makes it where there wouldn't be two intersections that they couldn't afford it.

3777
06:23:19,360 --> 06:23:20,140
Thank you.

3778
06:23:21,120 --> 06:23:22,020
Thank you.

3779
06:23:23,160 --> 06:23:26,840
Is there anyone else that would wish to make public comment today?

3780
06:23:30,380 --> 06:23:33,680
Six o'clock this evening we will have another public comment.

3781
06:23:34,220 --> 06:23:37,680
If you'd like to wait until then you're more than welcome or you can do it today.

3782
06:23:44,780 --> 06:23:48,760
My name is Connor McHugh, 2541 County Road 120.

3783
06:23:50,280 --> 06:23:56,440
So first I'd like to thank you guys and staff of GCC for being here.

3784
06:23:57,500 --> 06:24:03,380
I also want them to thank them for disrupting our community and disturbing another lovely day

3785
06:24:03,380 --> 06:24:05,100
because I'm sure we would have nothing else to do.

3786
06:24:05,860 --> 06:24:15,960
But it's pretty amazing how they've managed to worm their selves into success through the layers and layers of legal BS that this whole process has entailed.

3787
06:24:16,940 --> 06:24:24,660
They want to be commended for apparently offering up all these millions of dollars to improve the road for them to solely operate on.

3788
06:24:25,500 --> 06:24:33,960
And it kind of seems like it would be if they would buy a big building because of the renovations they have to do to be able to basically run their business.

3789
06:24:33,960 --> 06:24:42,640
So the fact that they're doing their job is kind of a slap to the face for all the ways it's going to improve our lives, so to speak.

3790
06:24:45,540 --> 06:24:52,280
So that's kind of another thing that I'd like to commend them on is just how they're able to run on an outdated permit.

3791
06:24:52,940 --> 06:25:01,000
I know if I was trying to grow copious amounts of marijuana and I started a little bit before I started the paperwork and got the proper permits in,

3792
06:25:01,540 --> 06:25:02,900
I would probably be in jail.

3793
06:25:03,740 --> 06:25:04,920
I wouldn't be able to say,

3794
06:25:05,000 --> 06:25:06,300
well, I didn't understand the questions,

3795
06:25:06,680 --> 06:25:08,840
or I'm sorry, I didn't turn my paperwork in time.

3796
06:25:10,540 --> 06:25:12,620
I wouldn't be able to drag my feet on this.

3797
06:25:13,460 --> 06:25:17,020
So I guess I just basically want to commend them

3798
06:25:17,020 --> 06:25:20,960
for showing a young student how to operate businesses

3799
06:25:21,480 --> 06:25:22,540
and how to succeed.

3800
06:25:23,120 --> 06:25:26,160
And it's a really interesting eye-opening experience

3801
06:25:26,160 --> 06:25:27,420
and I would like to thank them again.

3802
06:25:27,420 --> 06:25:31,520
So, I'm off you guys. Have a good day. Thank you.

3803
06:25:32,840 --> 06:25:35,820
Can you fill out a pink slip for Jeannie over there?

3804
06:25:36,420 --> 06:25:36,900
Thanks.

3805
06:25:40,500 --> 06:25:40,980
Come on up.

3806
06:25:51,810 --> 06:25:57,830
Good afternoon. I haven't prepared a speech. I didn't come with a high-priced lawyer.

3807
06:25:58,030 --> 06:26:04,530
My name is Mike Crawford. I live at up on County Road 121, which I've lived there.

3808
06:26:04,530 --> 06:26:09,750
My entire life, fourth generation rancher for over 125 years on that piece of property.

3809
06:26:11,550 --> 06:26:14,190
The mine has mined under our property before.

3810
06:26:15,630 --> 06:26:20,850
We did not own the royalties so we didn't receive a penny out of it.

3811
06:26:21,410 --> 06:26:27,650
We've allowed them access to core drill, subsidence cracks, different things.

3812
06:26:28,210 --> 06:26:31,050
They have been great to work with, absolutely great.

3813
06:26:32,070 --> 06:26:37,930
After living in this community my entire life, my family, my entire life, my great-grandfather

3814
06:26:37,930 --> 06:26:41,090
is Hal Higaltz got his name, was named after.

3815
06:26:44,840 --> 06:26:50,620
I don't know, I hate to see people come in here, move in here, be here two years, bring

3816
06:26:50,620 --> 06:26:55,600
in a high-priced lawyer, gather up a handful of people and start changing our way of life.

3817
06:26:55,600 --> 06:27:08,840
I am greatly in support of the mine, what they've done for our community, and the amount of people that have lived and worked with the mine, ranchers and miners throughout the last hundred years.

3818
06:27:09,420 --> 06:27:10,800
I support GCC Energy.

3819
06:27:13,330 --> 06:27:14,110
Thank you.

3820
06:27:18,070 --> 06:27:21,530
Anyone else wish to make public comment at this time?

3821
06:27:30,090 --> 06:27:30,510
Sure.

3822
06:27:33,730 --> 06:27:39,090
I'm William T. Williams. I live on County Road 120, 1644, County Road 120.

3823
06:27:39,090 --> 06:27:43,490
There's been a lot of discussion about the population density along the routes.

3824
06:27:44,190 --> 06:27:50,950
Somebody that's been, or a population segment that has been clearly ignored are the residents

3825
06:27:50,950 --> 06:27:52,430
along Highway 140.

3826
06:27:52,870 --> 06:27:59,330
Now, I understand that the county has no direct authority over the route on a Colorado

3827
06:27:59,330 --> 06:27:59,910
highway.

3828
06:28:00,350 --> 06:28:05,550
However, those are La Plata County residents, and those are trucks running through La

3829
06:28:05,550 --> 06:28:06,070
Plata County.

3830
06:28:06,070 --> 06:28:13,950
On that road, there are six major intersections, and there are over 35 residences that are

3831
06:28:13,950 --> 06:28:16,710
in close connection to Highway 140.

3832
06:28:17,430 --> 06:28:25,470
So in addition to the number of intersections along County Road 120 North, it really is

3833
06:28:25,470 --> 06:28:32,150
incumbent upon the commissioners to consider those residents that live on Highway 140.

3834
06:28:32,150 --> 06:28:42,150
They are directly impacted on the number of increased trucks up to 288 extra trucks running

3835
06:28:42,150 --> 06:28:43,290
up and down that highway.

3836
06:28:43,610 --> 06:28:48,910
So I would hope that you would take those residents into consideration on your deliberations.

3837
06:28:49,030 --> 06:28:49,390
Thank you.

3838
06:28:49,950 --> 06:28:50,450
Thank you.

3839
06:28:53,900 --> 06:28:56,180
Anyone else wish to make public comment?

3840
06:29:00,030 --> 06:29:09,500
Seeing none, we will close our public comment portion of the meeting and for the afternoon.

3841
06:29:10,180 --> 06:29:18,780
until this evening at six o'clock and have a board question and answer session.

3842
06:29:22,620 --> 06:29:25,500
Cheryl, do you want to, do you have anything?

3843
06:29:25,880 --> 06:29:29,100
I don't. I just, before we break, if that's where we're headed,

3844
06:29:29,800 --> 06:29:34,360
I'm going to update a list of the documents that are part of the record

3845
06:29:34,360 --> 06:29:38,620
and those that are still to be determined, I assume,

3846
06:29:39,280 --> 06:29:44,680
that all of the handout submitted by the public you want to be part of the record

3847
06:29:44,680 --> 06:29:49,640
is we would typically do that. So I will add that to the list and provide a copy to everyone

3848
06:29:49,640 --> 06:29:52,380
so we're all talking up the same page tonight.

3849
06:29:53,840 --> 06:29:59,980
I believe we've also been receiving some e-mail comments while we've been-

3850
06:30:00,000 --> 06:30:06,940
And I'll appear today. And so that ends at 4 p.m. So if anybody is listening right now,

3851
06:30:07,060 --> 06:30:14,680
you have approximately 30 minutes to get your written comments emailed into the county to

3852
06:30:14,680 --> 06:30:18,040
be considered for deliberation. And we are not going to read all of that

3853
06:30:18,040 --> 06:30:23,300
into the record, but I provided to everyone the link that you can check in order to review

3854
06:30:23,300 --> 06:30:24,960
all the public comments that are received.

3855
06:30:27,290 --> 06:30:29,190
For the record, Mr. Chair, can we at least

3856
06:30:29,910 --> 06:30:35,070
State the number of comments we've received online today.

3857
06:30:35,290 --> 06:30:35,930
I

3858
06:30:38,520 --> 06:30:39,420
think it was.

3859
06:30:40,200 --> 06:30:43,780
You know, I can click on now and see what the updated number is.

3860
06:30:44,480 --> 06:30:45,120
Wait a second.

3861
06:31:37,720 --> 06:31:41,160
Five word test and then it says there's 28 responses.

3862
06:31:41,160 --> 06:31:43,700
So I think there's actually perhaps 23.

3863
06:31:45,890 --> 06:31:46,310
Thank you.

3864
06:31:50,780 --> 06:31:51,340
Yes.

3865
06:31:52,080 --> 06:31:52,440
28.

3866
06:31:52,760 --> 06:31:53,400
28.

3867
06:31:53,960 --> 06:31:55,740
Does that include the five test?

3868
06:31:56,420 --> 06:32:06,180
Okay. So 23. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So, Mr. Chairman, for clarification, our agenda

3869
06:32:06,180 --> 06:32:14,420
indicates that right now we had anticipated, I think, kind of the follow-up questions by

3870
06:32:14,420 --> 06:32:21,300
the board, and then rebuttal comments, I think, by the parties and so on. Do we still want

3871
06:32:21,300 --> 06:32:25,580
to do that now or do we want to wait until all the public comment is concluded before

3872
06:32:25,580 --> 06:32:30,580
we hear from the parties in terms of concluding statements?

3873
06:32:32,180 --> 06:32:36,500
It would be rebuttal at the end of the public comment.

3874
06:32:36,900 --> 06:32:41,440
One, I think the parties probably would appreciate the break in order to perhaps form their

3875
06:32:41,440 --> 06:32:46,080
thoughts, but when we get public comment tonight there may be things that they would

3876
06:32:46,080 --> 06:32:46,840
like to address.

3877
06:32:48,240 --> 06:32:52,740
I think it makes sense to just let them be able to respond to everything that we've heard

3878
06:32:52,740 --> 06:32:56,960
rather than try to have them respond in the middle.

3879
06:32:57,180 --> 06:33:03,920
But if there are outstanding questions, I think I would certainly be supportive of finishing

3880
06:33:03,920 --> 06:33:04,760
up our questions.

3881
06:33:08,080 --> 06:33:12,080
So Commissioner, you would support asking questions now.

3882
06:33:12,520 --> 06:33:14,800
Is that what you're saying, asking questions now?

3883
06:33:15,280 --> 06:33:15,920
We can.

3884
06:33:15,920 --> 06:33:19,840
We've got the time is kind of what I was thinking. Sure. I'm in favor of that.

3885
06:33:31,850 --> 06:33:35,030
I have a question who wants to go first

3886
06:33:41,610 --> 06:33:49,810
Somebody has one at the ready go for it. Okay, I think I'll start with a few outstanding questions for the applicant

3887
06:33:52,430 --> 06:33:52,950
is

3888
06:33:52,950 --> 06:33:59,370
I believe the Hauntington reservoir was supposed to construction was supposed to be completed today did that happen the

3889
06:34:02,280 --> 06:34:05,900
The reservoir was not to be complete today, it was supposed to be underway today.

3890
06:34:06,340 --> 06:34:10,280
Water hauling is scheduled to stop by September 30th.

3891
06:34:10,600 --> 06:34:12,400
The reservoir is under construction.

3892
06:34:13,420 --> 06:34:18,900
We do expect to have it wrapped up before the end of this month, and water hauling has

3893
06:34:18,900 --> 06:34:19,700
stopped.

3894
06:34:22,290 --> 06:34:23,870
Are you getting new water if you're not hauling?

3895
06:34:24,430 --> 06:34:25,930
We're getting it from irrigation rights.

3896
06:34:26,130 --> 06:34:27,810
Oh, we're taking it straight from the ditch.

3897
06:34:28,050 --> 06:34:28,150
Right.

3898
06:34:28,170 --> 06:34:29,030
Okay, gotcha.

3899
06:34:29,970 --> 06:34:30,270
Thanks.

3900
06:34:34,730 --> 06:34:36,150
You know, I

3901
06:34:41,750 --> 06:34:43,370
didn't do that actually,

3902
06:34:51,210 --> 06:34:52,490
that's okay with me.

3903
06:34:52,770 --> 06:34:54,530
I just didn't want us to get all together.

3904
06:34:57,210 --> 06:34:59,950
These may not be in order or organized for GCC.

3905
06:35:00,210 --> 06:35:01,970
They just have your name next to them.

3906
06:35:02,450 --> 06:35:04,090
So, Mr. Olson, are you still here?

3907
06:35:04,950 --> 06:35:07,230
There are some questions raised in some of the reports

3908
06:35:07,230 --> 06:35:11,370
that you had underestimated the actual costs of construction

3909
06:35:11,370 --> 06:35:18,870
or the improvements rather for the County Road 120 North improvements.

3910
06:35:19,850 --> 06:35:25,050
Are you confident in those numbers or where do we stand with respect to their accuracy?

3911
06:35:27,670 --> 06:35:29,710
As Mike Olsen wrote in our engineering,

3912
06:35:30,410 --> 06:35:37,610
I am confident for this stage of analysis that those numbers are generally in the magnitude-wise are good.

3913
06:35:37,610 --> 06:35:49,430
I utilize CDOT averages for their in assessing road construction costs and so based on what

3914
06:35:49,430 --> 06:35:55,910
we anticipate doing on each picture part of the process of the improvement program those

3915
06:35:55,910 --> 06:36:01,510
costs are reflective of based on CDOT averages.

3916
06:36:03,230 --> 06:36:03,990
Thank you.

3917
06:36:03,990 --> 06:36:15,390
And with respect, I believe one of the exhibits is diagrams of conceptual plans for the improvements

3918
06:36:15,390 --> 06:36:16,730
to County Route 120 North.

3919
06:36:16,930 --> 06:36:17,330
Is that correct?

3920
06:36:17,890 --> 06:36:18,350
That's correct.

3921
06:36:18,830 --> 06:36:19,930
Can we take a look at them?

3922
06:36:20,330 --> 06:36:20,890
I have a question.

3923
06:36:21,510 --> 06:36:22,830
I did not bring that with me.

3924
06:36:23,170 --> 06:36:23,490
Okay.

3925
06:36:23,990 --> 06:36:25,730
I'm sure someone else in the room has them.

3926
06:36:26,370 --> 06:36:28,910
I'll probably tell you if you...

3927
06:36:28,910 --> 06:36:37,170
It's a picture and it wasn't clear to me what segments necessarily were represented in the

3928
06:36:37,170 --> 06:36:37,630
photographs.

3929
06:36:39,390 --> 06:36:43,410
It actually has to do with that 90 degree turn, I believe, for first one.

3930
06:36:45,990 --> 06:36:54,470
Does that conceptual plan, right now the curve goes to the north of a residence, does your

3931
06:36:54,470 --> 06:36:59,610
plan anticipate the road being rerouted, realigned to go to the south of that

3932
06:36:59,610 --> 06:37:04,390
residence, putting it in what would look like a really weird place?

3933
06:37:05,090 --> 06:37:09,950
That particular what you're talking about is mile post point three and that is the

3934
06:37:09,950 --> 06:37:16,050
first nine degree corner on counter at 120. There's our constrained areas right

3935
06:37:16,050 --> 06:37:20,010
there because they used to be the old highway and there so all the the

3936
06:37:20,010 --> 06:37:25,950
the transmission lines, both local service and transmission going along the existing

3937
06:37:25,950 --> 06:37:26,410
counter route.

3938
06:37:28,520 --> 06:37:29,280
Thank you.

3939
06:37:29,360 --> 06:37:30,440
And we're looking at which exhibit?

3940
06:37:30,900 --> 06:37:33,040
This is Attachment 5 in your packet.

3941
06:37:34,080 --> 06:37:35,960
But with the...

3942
06:37:35,960 --> 06:37:39,320
And I'm not sure which sheet, but I'm going to let Mr. Olson tell you which sheet it is.

3943
06:37:43,670 --> 06:37:44,390
Sheet 7.

3944
06:37:50,280 --> 06:37:53,120
Mr. Chair, we could pull it up on the screen for you real fast as well.

3945
06:37:53,700 --> 06:37:54,280
That'd be great.

3946
06:37:54,740 --> 06:37:55,340
Thank you.

3947
06:37:56,840 --> 06:38:03,640
Mr. Chairman, if I may, while we're looking for that, I would also just note for the record

3948
06:38:03,640 --> 06:38:07,540
relative to the question about cost, that under the Road Improvement Agreement there

3949
06:38:07,540 --> 06:38:11,660
is no cap on the dollar amount that GCC is required to expend, they're just required

3950
06:38:11,660 --> 06:38:12,880
to construct the improvements.

3951
06:38:13,420 --> 06:38:16,620
So the risk of increased cost is on GCC.

3952
06:39:31,390 --> 06:39:34,830
We can address it later, but I just wanted to request a copy of the Realty Report.

3953
06:39:34,970 --> 06:39:36,350
That's the only document we don't have.

3954
06:39:36,470 --> 06:39:36,850
Thank you.

3955
06:39:39,220 --> 06:39:44,620
Mr. Westerhoef, is this the particular looking at the-

3956
06:39:44,620 --> 06:39:45,220
That is it.

3957
06:39:45,420 --> 06:39:45,740
Okay.

3958
06:39:46,540 --> 06:39:51,380
First, if you look in the upper right hand, you'll see a north arrow.

3959
06:39:52,480 --> 06:39:56,820
That gives you relative direction on what's going on right there.

3960
06:39:57,600 --> 06:39:59,000
This is a conceptual plan.

3961
06:39:59,780 --> 06:40:06,180
There are, in the existing alignment, there's power poles on both sides of the roadway.

3962
06:40:06,180 --> 06:40:13,820
And in fact, actually, at the 90-degree corner, they used to run 90 degrees and go directly

3963
06:40:13,820 --> 06:40:17,760
east across a bridge that's since been abandoned.

3964
06:40:20,980 --> 06:40:25,000
So that's probably why the geometry of that particular 90-degree corner.

3965
06:40:26,740 --> 06:40:31,200
This is a conceptual plan, and the next stages go into discussion right away.

3966
06:40:31,900 --> 06:40:38,220
The issues that we have there is we can't get an acceptable curve in the existing alignment

3967
06:40:40,060 --> 06:40:41,260
because it's constrained.

3968
06:40:42,020 --> 06:40:47,720
The options being as you go ahead and align as something like shown or you align it where

3969
06:40:47,720 --> 06:40:53,680
that you take out quite a bit of the or redirect the existing power lines.

3970
06:40:54,540 --> 06:40:55,740
This is one option.

3971
06:40:55,900 --> 06:40:59,280
This is what we'll do additional assessment of.

3972
06:40:59,280 --> 06:41:05,120
And that's in regards to looking at both what makes the most sense, and that includes Rataway,

3973
06:41:05,300 --> 06:41:10,160
and that includes direct conversations with that particular property owner.

3974
06:41:10,980 --> 06:41:17,180
And just so you know, just this particular instance, that's probably acquiring the full parcel.

3975
06:41:18,780 --> 06:41:26,720
This case here is, I would say, the exception to the amount of Rataway that's currently,

3976
06:41:26,720 --> 06:41:31,800
or how the road is aligned within the existing alignment.

3977
06:41:35,220 --> 06:41:40,400
And I guess if this were my house, and I saw this,

3978
06:41:40,940 --> 06:41:42,660
I would be a little bit upset right now.

3979
06:41:42,760 --> 06:41:44,640
So I'm wondering, did you talk to these people?

3980
06:41:44,860 --> 06:41:47,620
Do they know, or if they look at this,

3981
06:41:47,700 --> 06:41:49,360
are they going to just kind of freak out

3982
06:41:49,360 --> 06:41:54,100
and to what extent is there any place to consider?

3983
06:41:54,100 --> 06:41:54,880
This is a conceptual.

3984
06:41:55,160 --> 06:41:57,320
So you first go out and say, what actually is doable?

3985
06:41:57,320 --> 06:42:02,400
Then you go out as part of the preliminary plan phase, you should go and say this is what you have.

3986
06:42:02,900 --> 06:42:09,960
And here, if it's to a point that doesn't make any sense and the property owner is not supportive, then you try something else.

3987
06:42:10,700 --> 06:42:11,920
But you got to start someplace.

3988
06:42:12,500 --> 06:42:14,860
Okay, so this is an alternative.

3989
06:42:15,480 --> 06:42:17,000
It may not be the ultimate alternative.

3990
06:42:17,080 --> 06:42:17,340
Correct.

3991
06:42:18,240 --> 06:42:18,620
Okay.

3992
06:42:19,440 --> 06:42:25,100
And then, now since we're looking at this thing, I don't know.

3993
06:42:25,100 --> 06:42:30,360
So would it be helpful to, I guess what I'd just really like to know is we've heard from,

3994
06:42:31,080 --> 06:42:39,020
we've got a property owner, Ms. Hunziger, who has concerns about what, if I say it wrong,

3995
06:42:39,300 --> 06:42:44,440
stop me, but my belief is you have concerns about the way the realignment may, I heard

3996
06:42:44,440 --> 06:42:47,740
her say she had concerns about the way the realignment might affect her property.

3997
06:42:47,740 --> 06:42:57,660
What voice will she have in the consideration of a realignment near her?

3998
06:42:58,020 --> 06:42:59,560
She will definitely have a voice.

3999
06:43:00,420 --> 06:43:06,340
But with that, as of right now, there is no plan to move the center line,

4000
06:43:06,460 --> 06:43:10,120
and that's typically how you set up a road design project.

4001
06:43:10,400 --> 06:43:14,440
You establish a center line, and where the assumed center line is,

4002
06:43:14,440 --> 06:43:20,960
there's no, at this point is to, we intend to push the center line, it moves it all towards

4003
06:43:20,960 --> 06:43:24,980
the north, which I mean away from Ms. Hansenger's house.

4004
06:43:25,780 --> 06:43:28,800
There is an issue because she is right on the road.

4005
06:43:29,620 --> 06:43:32,100
Her pipe fence is right on the road.

4006
06:43:32,900 --> 06:43:38,180
And with that, there's parking that's currently being supported that is right on the road.

4007
06:43:38,600 --> 06:43:43,080
And so we have to address any type of clear zone issues and make sure the drainage

4008
06:43:43,080 --> 06:43:50,040
works, and all those quotas go into the final road design, but Ms. Unxinger would be a part

4009
06:43:50,040 --> 06:43:50,300
of that.

4010
06:43:53,330 --> 06:43:53,970
Thank you.

4011
06:44:01,480 --> 06:44:05,960
Also, there's, and I don't know who to address this to, but there was a, I believe one of

4012
06:44:05,960 --> 06:44:11,780
the, there's been comment raised that there might have been an underreporting of accidents,

4013
06:44:11,780 --> 06:44:19,840
And I had a similar concern as I was reading through the documents because I don't know

4014
06:44:19,840 --> 06:44:25,780
where the accident reports came from, whether they were things that were reported to the

4015
06:44:25,780 --> 06:44:27,420
sheriff's office or the highway patrol.

4016
06:44:27,880 --> 06:44:29,560
Those are things that went through central dispatch.

4017
06:44:29,720 --> 06:44:34,240
If those were things that were reported to GCC, we've heard a couple of different anecdotal

4018
06:44:34,240 --> 06:44:38,860
comments here about people in ditches that didn't get reported.

4019
06:44:38,860 --> 06:44:45,620
a truck sideways in the road that aren't considered accidents so they don't get recounted.

4020
06:44:46,360 --> 06:44:52,840
And even in GCC's accounting, I can't remember what document it was, but there was one that

4021
06:44:52,840 --> 06:44:58,640
record that I think it was in the maybe emergency procedures and how accidents will be handled

4022
06:44:58,640 --> 06:44:59,840
is different than truck.

4023
06:45:00,000 --> 06:45:06,740
Truck's stuck in a ditch, and truck stuck in a ditch may not be actually an accident for

4024
06:45:06,740 --> 06:45:12,040
one definition, but it certainly sounds to be a traffic problem. And I'm just wondering

4025
06:45:13,080 --> 06:45:19,100
how, you know, was that collection of data still relevant to you? Was it, was, would

4026
06:45:19,100 --> 06:45:24,200
under-reporting change your analyses of the adequacy or changes that need to be made

4027
06:45:24,200 --> 06:45:24,620
to the road?

4028
06:45:25,660 --> 06:45:33,160
So, my analysis is based on recorded data, and it's typically the way it's done is it's

4029
06:45:33,160 --> 06:45:41,820
car or state patrol holds main database, and through the accident reporting that I have

4030
06:45:41,820 --> 06:45:50,520
reflected that representative in my reports are based on the data supplied by the county.

4031
06:45:50,520 --> 06:45:58,280
Now, that being said, that's only recorded data that does not include a particular incident

4032
06:45:58,280 --> 06:46:02,840
where both people say, hey, you shouldn't have done that and gotten Chudd's face and

4033
06:46:03,300 --> 06:46:04,020
walked away.

4034
06:46:04,600 --> 06:46:09,800
So there are times where you have incidents that are recorded that do occur.

4035
06:46:10,980 --> 06:46:19,940
And whether it being from some truck that's been too wide on a road or somebody who's

4036
06:46:19,940 --> 06:46:25,240
travel too fast or whatever, but there may be particular instances that, and in it from

4037
06:46:25,240 --> 06:46:30,780
residents who live there, they stated so, that there are, there are accidents that are

4038
06:46:30,780 --> 06:46:33,860
not recorded, or there are incidents that are not recorded.

4039
06:46:34,460 --> 06:46:38,520
And the way that the Colorado State Patrol looks at it is that you have three types.

4040
06:46:38,580 --> 06:46:44,000
You have a property damage only, you have injury, or you have fatality.

4041
06:46:44,560 --> 06:46:47,100
And so that's how they record their accidents.

4042
06:46:47,100 --> 06:46:53,280
Just case in point, in 120 South, in the last few years there were two fatalities.

4043
06:46:54,220 --> 06:46:58,960
And that happened to be one with the motorcycle that hit an animal.

4044
06:46:59,320 --> 06:47:06,280
Another one was my person didn't negotiate a 90 degree curve and it was excessive speed.

4045
06:47:07,140 --> 06:47:09,900
Those things, you know, those are in the actual records.

4046
06:47:10,300 --> 06:47:14,040
But going back to question, does everything get reported?

4047
06:47:14,040 --> 06:47:24,540
it? No. And they get handled by the residents there on site and they don't get reported

4048
06:47:24,540 --> 06:47:28,560
to the accident. The car or state patrol doesn't come and file a report on it.

4049
06:47:29,600 --> 06:47:33,820
And so how does that affect your analysis of the report?

4050
06:47:33,900 --> 06:47:37,660
If there's an injury, I mean you're going to get that. If there's a property damage

4051
06:47:37,660 --> 06:47:41,080
you're going to get that because that's the only way you can make a claim. And so

4052
06:47:41,080 --> 06:47:46,740
So I would say that, for the most part, it's accurately reflective on the operations of

4053
06:47:46,740 --> 06:47:47,100
the road.

4054
06:47:48,520 --> 06:47:51,900
But I would say that – I mean, that's the only thing I can go by right there.

4055
06:47:53,840 --> 06:47:54,520
Mr. Chairman.

4056
06:47:54,880 --> 06:47:55,080
Yes.

4057
06:47:55,140 --> 06:47:57,700
If I could add one thing, Carolyn White again for the record.

4058
06:47:58,260 --> 06:48:02,300
While it may be true that individual private drivers on that road might have the option

4059
06:48:02,300 --> 06:48:07,240
to elect whether or not they wish to report an incident, the truck drivers under contract

4060
06:48:07,240 --> 06:48:09,340
to GCC do not have that option.

4061
06:48:09,340 --> 06:48:16,500
It is GCC's policy that any incident, whether it's a single car, a truck in a ditch or under

4062
06:48:16,500 --> 06:48:18,800
their policy, all of them need to be reported.

4063
06:48:19,300 --> 06:48:24,740
So we, I would say, could infer from that a relatively high degree of confidence in

4064
06:48:24,740 --> 06:48:27,420
the data as it relates to GCC vehicles.

4065
06:48:27,620 --> 06:48:30,340
It may be true that other accidents are under-reported.

4066
06:48:32,470 --> 06:48:33,150
Thank you.

4067
06:48:33,150 --> 06:48:43,230
And I think your right-of-way agent is here, he spoke at the Planning Commission meeting.

4068
06:48:43,630 --> 06:48:46,270
Correct, would you like to ask some questions of the right-of-way agent?

4069
06:49:01,760 --> 06:49:07,920
My name is Rob Johnston, I'm with Johnston Land Company, address at 1315 Main Avenue,

4070
06:49:08,860 --> 06:49:11,160
Suite 222, Durango, Colorado.

4071
06:49:12,300 --> 06:49:13,620
Thank you, Mr. Johnston.

4072
06:49:13,820 --> 06:49:14,360
Johnston?

4073
06:49:14,640 --> 06:49:14,880
Yes.

4074
06:49:15,320 --> 06:49:15,780
Thank you.

4075
06:49:15,780 --> 06:49:26,500
You heard my right-of-way question to Mr. Olson, and do you have anything to add to that or clarify?

4076
06:49:28,260 --> 06:49:28,580
Could you?

4077
06:49:28,980 --> 06:49:30,040
Sure, I could try it again.

4078
06:49:30,240 --> 06:49:30,600
Thank you.

4079
06:49:30,640 --> 06:49:38,320
So my concern, first, my first concern was just as it related to this property that's on the screen now,

4080
06:49:38,400 --> 06:49:44,520
and it sounds like for Mr. Olson, if this doesn't work out, then other options would be considered.

4081
06:49:45,140 --> 06:49:51,540
My other one had the question had to do with Ms. Hunziker and implications for her of some kind of

4082
06:49:52,140 --> 06:49:55,940
realignment and what would be the involvement of property owners in that process.

4083
06:49:56,320 --> 06:49:59,760
As the right-of-way agent, I assume you'd be involved there.

4084
06:50:02,480 --> 06:50:09,740
Yes. First of all, the guidelines and process and procedures would be following the Uniform Act.

4085
06:50:09,740 --> 06:50:16,700
And in general, what that does is it provides that property owner with the policies and procedures

4086
06:50:16,700 --> 06:50:21,580
that are going to be followed for that potential right-of-way acquisition.

4087
06:50:23,300 --> 06:50:29,720
And what's set up as the right-of-way agent to deliver information about the project

4088
06:50:29,720 --> 06:50:35,280
to the landowner and have integrated negotiations with that landowner and having that landowner

4089
06:50:35,280 --> 06:50:38,820
be able to provide comment or concerns.

4090
06:50:39,840 --> 06:50:48,200
And the two parties would enter into problem senses, identifying problems, and trying to

4091
06:50:48,200 --> 06:50:50,920
come up with some problem resolutions.

4092
06:50:51,400 --> 06:50:58,380
So when I look at this first picture here at the 90-degree corner, there could be

4093
06:50:58,700 --> 06:51:00,240
a couple of different options.

4094
06:51:00,240 --> 06:51:08,160
And until something is presented and discussions are started between the right-of-way agent

4095
06:51:08,160 --> 06:51:12,620
and the landowner, that's just the first step.

4096
06:51:13,100 --> 06:51:19,280
But the landowner is encouraged to participate and provide comment back about their concerns

4097
06:51:19,280 --> 06:51:20,740
or issues.

4098
06:51:21,000 --> 06:51:26,660
And then we work to try to resolve those through problem-senses and reach some voluntary

4099
06:51:26,660 --> 06:51:27,140
consent.

4100
06:51:28,020 --> 06:51:28,880
Thank you.

4101
06:51:30,160 --> 06:51:36,800
Mr. Johnson, just a quick question. Have you done land acquisition in this area before?

4102
06:51:38,100 --> 06:51:46,360
I've worked in the land and ride-away business here in La Plata County for 26 years, primarily in the oil and gas industry,

4103
06:51:46,500 --> 06:51:55,460
but also for public utility companies with both pipelines, compressors, compressor stations, and transmission lines.

4104
06:51:56,360 --> 06:51:57,340
In this area?

4105
06:51:57,580 --> 06:51:59,220
26 years in La Plata County.

4106
06:51:59,220 --> 06:52:02,180
Sorry, sorry, in the Heygaltch area.

4107
06:52:02,480 --> 06:52:02,580
Oh.

4108
06:52:04,140 --> 06:52:07,340
My only involvement, actually, in the Heygaltch area

4109
06:52:07,340 --> 06:52:10,800
was acquiring a lease in favor of GCC

4110
06:52:10,800 --> 06:52:12,660
from the Ute Mountain Utes.

4111
06:52:13,520 --> 06:52:14,320
Thank you,

4112
06:52:20,490 --> 06:52:20,910
Commissioner.

4113
06:52:22,010 --> 06:52:24,570
Just asking general questions or just for GCC?

4114
06:52:25,330 --> 06:52:26,350
I don't need to redo it.

4115
06:52:26,550 --> 06:52:26,930
Either one.

4116
06:52:27,270 --> 06:52:27,570
OK.

4117
06:52:30,310 --> 06:52:31,850
All right, I'll pick some for GCC.

4118
06:52:32,810 --> 06:52:33,950
I'm not sure.

4119
06:52:33,950 --> 06:52:38,870
I don't think I need to anymore, but who knows.

4120
06:52:40,610 --> 06:52:50,590
On the tour that the commissioners were able to take with staff and members of GCC personnel,

4121
06:52:51,710 --> 06:52:59,230
we noticed that a large pullout outside of the – to the north of the mine on County

4122
06:52:59,230 --> 06:53:07,350
Road 120. And we had an answered question about what the trucks were doing, whether they were

4123
06:53:07,350 --> 06:53:15,810
actually covering their loads, when they pulled out into the pullout, or exactly was it more

4124
06:53:15,810 --> 06:53:16,590
of a safety check?

4125
06:53:24,520 --> 06:53:28,740
Mr. Peterson is probably the most knowledgeable, but he wasn't on the tour. So just to make

4126
06:53:28,740 --> 06:53:32,800
absolutely sure we're referring to the exact right place that you're referencing,

4127
06:53:32,800 --> 06:53:37,220
I just would like to see if there's another GCC person who's better suited to answer that question.

4128
06:53:37,520 --> 06:53:38,640
He's coming up right now.

4129
06:53:39,020 --> 06:53:41,080
And there would be the person I was thinking of.

4130
06:53:43,380 --> 06:53:43,820
Working.

4131
06:53:44,920 --> 06:53:46,320
My name is Wade Weymour.

4132
06:53:47,360 --> 06:53:51,120
I reside at 918 East Oak Drive, Bayfield, Colorado.

4133
06:53:51,560 --> 06:53:53,760
I've worked with GCC for 22 years.

4134
06:53:54,220 --> 06:53:58,620
When we were on the tour of the area that you were talking about, it's considered what we call the truckers,

4135
06:53:58,620 --> 06:54:05,360
called the U-Currals. It's state ground. It's an extra wide spot right next to

4136
06:54:05,360 --> 06:54:10,020
some loading chutes, and that's where they were pulling off out of the

4137
06:54:10,020 --> 06:54:12,160
lane of traffic on County Road 120.

4138
06:54:14,670 --> 06:54:17,730
This turnout actually isn't near a loading

4139
06:54:17,730 --> 06:54:30,450
chute. This is... Loading chute is a cattle. It's a cattle chute. Oh, for the...

4140
06:54:30,450 --> 06:54:32,110
Are they performing when they pull off?

4141
06:54:32,370 --> 06:54:40,950
They're required by GCC policy to be tarped or untarped at that location because there's no residence in between there and the mine site.

4142
06:54:41,670 --> 06:54:44,530
If they need to pull off prior to getting to the mine site.

4143
06:54:46,150 --> 06:54:50,230
And when they're leaving the mine site, what activity are they pursuing?

4144
06:54:50,370 --> 06:54:55,110
Same. If they do not tarp on the mine site, they will tarp there out of the lane of traffic.

4145
06:54:55,990 --> 06:55:06,910
Okay. Okay. Is there a representative of the trucking company present in the audience today?

4146
06:55:07,730 --> 06:55:15,090
We did not call or invite them as our witnesses, but I suspect you might have a good representative in the audience if you ask that question generally.

4147
06:55:15,090 --> 06:55:25,570
Okay. I just, I had a question as to the number of hours that truckers are on the job per day.

4148
06:55:26,130 --> 06:55:34,350
And I have noticed the majority of the trucks that I've witnessed and certainly on the tour have New Mexico plates.

4149
06:55:34,650 --> 06:55:39,350
I'm wondering, did the majority of the folks driving trucks reside in New Mexico?

4150
06:55:39,350 --> 06:55:46,430
go and based on number of hours a day, are they picking up one load and going south to

4151
06:55:46,430 --> 06:55:49,970
Gallup and staying or coming back a number of times a day?

4152
06:55:50,430 --> 06:55:52,370
Mr. Wymore might be able to answer that question.

4153
06:55:52,750 --> 06:55:56,590
Mr. Wymore again, I cannot answer on the hours that they run.

4154
06:55:57,430 --> 06:56:01,170
Now there is trucks that run down, and you might see the same truck in one day,

4155
06:56:01,230 --> 06:56:03,230
but they have different drivers during the shift.

4156
06:56:04,090 --> 06:56:04,730
They may run down.

4157
06:56:04,950 --> 06:56:07,610
If they're going to the Gallup location, they'll run down to Gallup,

4158
06:56:07,610 --> 06:56:12,130
return back to their yard in Kirtland area and a different jock you'll get in the cab

4159
06:56:12,130 --> 06:56:12,930
and take over.

4160
06:56:14,070 --> 06:56:16,550
So Kirtland is one of their, is there main?

4161
06:56:17,190 --> 06:56:18,910
There's a couple of different trucking companies.

4162
06:56:19,130 --> 06:56:22,410
One of the facilities is in Kirtland, the other truck, the other trucking companies,

4163
06:56:22,550 --> 06:56:23,990
other facilities in Farmington.

4164
06:56:24,630 --> 06:56:24,870
Okay.

4165
06:56:30,020 --> 06:56:34,800
Commissioner, you might ask that question again after 6 p.m. when the folks that

4166
06:56:34,800 --> 06:56:37,580
are working during the day come for the second round of public comment.

4167
06:56:37,960 --> 06:56:38,260
Okay.

4168
06:56:38,900 --> 06:56:41,480
I think we'll have some more witnesses available at that time.

4169
06:56:41,480 --> 06:56:46,040
Okay. Great. Thanks. We may have somebody right now wanting to answer that question.

4170
06:56:53,650 --> 06:56:57,390
Hi, I'm Brandon Wendell. I own Well on Wheels Water Hauling here in La Plata County.

4171
06:56:58,330 --> 06:57:04,790
Truckers by national DOT requirements are not allowed to drive anything more than 11 hours a day.

4172
06:57:05,310 --> 06:57:09,150
They are allowed to be on shift for 14 hours, but only behind the wheel for 11.

4173
06:57:09,650 --> 06:57:12,650
They have to document all of their in and out time out of the seat

4174
06:57:13,250 --> 06:57:16,090
and document what they're doing when they're not driving.

4175
06:57:16,090 --> 06:57:20,170
So I thought that might help answer that question.

4176
06:57:20,330 --> 06:57:20,650
Thank you.

4177
06:57:20,870 --> 06:57:21,210
You're welcome.

4178
06:57:32,210 --> 06:57:33,110
Okay.

4179
06:57:33,690 --> 06:57:34,270
I

4180
06:57:36,480 --> 06:57:38,660
guess other

4181
06:57:45,500 --> 06:57:47,760
questions for GCC.

4182
06:57:53,590 --> 06:58:04,060
I guess as a follow-up to the council for the neighbors and

4183
06:58:04,060 --> 06:58:14,880
Cross Creek, the request, repeated request for 55 trucks, a limit on 55 trucks per day

4184
06:58:14,880 --> 06:58:15,640
going north.

4185
06:58:16,740 --> 06:58:23,140
Have you analyzed a split of 55 trucks going north, 25 using the southern route?

4186
06:58:23,700 --> 06:58:29,520
And I was noting one of the comments earlier from a member of the public stating when

4187
06:58:29,520 --> 06:58:34,880
the traffic was at 50 trucks per day it was hardly noticeable when you were a

4188
06:58:34,880 --> 06:58:40,820
resident near the road anyway just wanted to put that out there on the

4189
06:58:40,820 --> 06:58:44,180
record but have you analyzed that split?

4190
06:58:47,560 --> 06:58:50,180
So I really hear that as maybe two

4191
06:58:50,180 --> 06:58:54,280
questions one is the question of could GCC reduce operations to 55 trucks

4192
06:58:54,280 --> 06:59:00,640
period the second is has GCC analyzed 55 trucks on County Road 120 North plus

4193
06:59:00,640 --> 06:59:07,380
25 trucks or some other number on County Road 125, 125 was the neighbors question my question is

4194
06:59:07,380 --> 06:59:14,160
have you analyzed 50 truck 55 trucks going north and 25 going plus 25 going south okay well we'll

4195
06:59:14,160 --> 06:59:16,200
address that question now then okay thank you

4196
06:59:20,680 --> 06:59:25,220
we've more closely analyzed 120 south its entirety

4197
06:59:25,220 --> 06:59:31,620
and for a number of reasons which Mike Olsen stated earlier it's it's not a favorite route

4198
06:59:31,620 --> 06:59:35,080
because of the number of constraints that are built into the road, the number of

4199
06:59:35,080 --> 06:59:40,320
90-degree corners, the number of county road intersections, and the nature of the

4200
06:59:40,320 --> 06:59:47,460
State Highway intersections at any traffic volume. I will further comment that

4201
06:59:47,460 --> 06:59:52,920
there were times in years past that 120 South was used as an alternate route

4202
06:59:52,920 --> 06:59:55,700
sometimes during snow events.

4203
06:59:57,800 --> 06:59:59,840
It was any time that

4204
07:00:00,000 --> 07:00:08,760
How it was used, it was found to be problematic. In 1996, GCC opened its own truck, GCC's predecessor,

4205
07:00:09,000 --> 07:00:16,420
National King Cole, opened its own trucking company and ran its own trucks until 2004, I believe.

4206
07:00:17,680 --> 07:00:26,200
I was in charge of that trucking company for a while. At the beginning of that point, there was the occasional practice of running trucks to the south.

4207
07:00:26,200 --> 07:00:37,880
It became problematic enough with the number of trucks stuck in the ditch and spilled loads that we absolutely abandoned the practice of driving to the south.

4208
07:00:39,800 --> 07:00:49,080
After we sold the trucking company in 2004, there was again a short time when trucks were occasionally routed to the south for one convenience or another,

4209
07:00:49,140 --> 07:00:52,720
but finally then it was abandoned because of the problematic nature of the route.

4210
07:00:53,740 --> 07:01:07,480
If I may ask staff, Mr. Murray, would you mind finding this slide of the roads, the various routes, the 120 going north, 120 going south?

4211
07:01:07,580 --> 07:01:16,860
I heard Mr. Dodson say during his testimony that he was not recommending the full southern route, but using a combination of 119, 116.

4212
07:01:18,060 --> 07:01:21,920
I would just like to see the visual on that.

4213
07:01:36,880 --> 07:01:43,420
Yeah, Ms. Murray, could you show the route that the commissioners were driven on going to the south

4214
07:01:43,420 --> 07:01:48,480
versus the route that Mr. Dodson is recommending or recommended?

4215
07:01:49,180 --> 07:01:55,660
Thank you, Mayor of the Planning Department. The green line shows North 120, the red square is the mine.

4216
07:01:55,660 --> 07:02:02,940
then we traveled south to this intersection right here we went left and

4217
07:02:03,420 --> 07:02:09,340
traveled up this hill and right around here the road becomes paved so then you

4218
07:02:09,340 --> 07:02:14,740
may remember that oh right yes portion of it and it actually goes up and down

4219
07:02:14,740 --> 07:02:20,060
probably with these drainages so then there's a hard right right where the

4220
07:02:20,060 --> 07:02:25,900
ditches, these two 90 degrees, and then we popped out here at 140. We traveled

4221
07:02:25,900 --> 07:02:32,660
south down to Klein where the school is, the school is actually down here, and then

4222
07:02:32,660 --> 07:02:38,100
hung this right and went back in on 119 and traveled around.

4223
07:02:40,190 --> 07:02:41,470
Okay, thank you.

4224
07:03:04,760 --> 07:03:04,900
I

4225
07:03:04,900 --> 07:03:10,880
guess perhaps one last question for the applicants.

4226
07:03:14,720 --> 07:03:16,800
If you were to begin, if

4227
07:03:16,800 --> 07:03:27,880
If you were to do all four phases as one phase, how long do you believe it would take you?

4228
07:03:28,560 --> 07:03:37,940
And is it even feasible in the amount of time there is between now and winter?

4229
07:03:40,320 --> 07:03:45,480
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Carolyn White again, I'd like to give you an overview answer and

4230
07:03:45,480 --> 07:03:48,320
then ask Mr. Peterson or Mr. Olson to answer in more detail.

4231
07:03:49,340 --> 07:03:54,480
But I want to highlight for the commission that some of the obstacles here, this is not

4232
07:03:54,480 --> 07:04:01,680
a question of GCC being unwilling to spend money faster or to engage in activities faster.

4233
07:04:02,060 --> 07:04:06,360
This is a question of certain steps which have to occur sequentially and the amount

4234
07:04:06,360 --> 07:04:08,520
of time required to complete each of those steps.

4235
07:04:08,880 --> 07:04:12,560
So as to the specific amount of time that you could get it done and if you compressed

4236
07:04:12,560 --> 07:04:16,320
it, I'll let Mr. Olson opine on that if he has an opinion.

4237
07:04:16,320 --> 07:04:24,100
But the point I'm making is that we are at a phase of conceptual design, subsequent to approval of this permit.

4238
07:04:24,300 --> 07:04:30,420
If it is approved, we will engage in preliminary design with the approval and coordination with county staff.

4239
07:04:30,980 --> 07:04:37,500
When preliminary design is finalized, then they will engage in the right-of-way analysis that's already been discussed extensively.

4240
07:04:37,500 --> 07:04:42,700
And that will include a process of identifying what right away is needed to complete the

4241
07:04:42,700 --> 07:04:47,280
roadway as it has been designed as well as alternatives where it appears that it may be

4242
07:04:47,280 --> 07:04:51,460
problematic to acquire that right away, right, like the corner we were just looking at.

4243
07:04:51,940 --> 07:04:55,860
And all of these things cannot occur concurrently.

4244
07:04:56,140 --> 07:05:02,220
So the parts that can be done quickly are already proposed to be done as soon as

4245
07:05:02,220 --> 07:05:04,180
possible, namely in 2016.

4246
07:05:04,180 --> 07:05:08,240
And those are also the parts that have the most urgent need, like the immediate paving

4247
07:05:08,240 --> 07:05:11,000
in front of the residents of the portion that's unpaved.

4248
07:05:11,500 --> 07:05:16,500
But significant portions of this can't be really engaged in until certain other portions

4249
07:05:16,500 --> 07:05:17,200
are completed.

4250
07:05:17,540 --> 07:05:21,800
And that's really the constraint that's driving some of the proposal for phasing.

4251
07:05:22,220 --> 07:05:26,140
There has also been concern expressed by the residents about how the construction

4252
07:05:26,140 --> 07:05:32,100
will be staged, and that's an issue that we'll work very closely with county staff.

4253
07:05:32,100 --> 07:05:38,080
But if all of the work were to be expedited and completed all at once, there would be significant impacts

4254
07:05:38,080 --> 07:05:42,160
likely on both the mine and the resident's ability to use the road in the interim.

4255
07:05:42,500 --> 07:05:45,320
Phasing it allows it to continue to be used by all parties.

4256
07:05:46,020 --> 07:05:50,600
So that's the sort of big picture overview answer, but I'll let Mr. Peterson or Mr. Olson

4257
07:05:50,600 --> 07:05:53,840
add any more detail that they think is appropriate.

4258
07:05:59,480 --> 07:06:06,740
Michael Olsen wrote an engineering there from the conceptual into the preliminary is a significant

4259
07:06:06,740 --> 07:06:12,520
amount of work and the scheduling allows time to complete that work and that's it just doesn't

4260
07:06:12,520 --> 07:06:19,120
happen overnight and there was and a lot of that doesn't address the right-of-way requirements

4261
07:06:19,120 --> 07:06:25,560
and if there is any modification to the alignment and so that allows a little bit of time

4262
07:06:25,560 --> 07:06:32,480
for that. Doesn't allow a lot. And so this is an aggressive schedule, but you don't want

4263
07:06:32,480 --> 07:06:39,320
to also, you want to put together a schedule that's fairly realistic. I think there may

4264
07:06:39,320 --> 07:06:46,060
be some opportunities to move some tasks forward, but that really depends on right away and

4265
07:06:46,600 --> 07:06:53,800
if consensus and agreement can be reached. So this is a realistic schedule and there's

4266
07:06:53,800 --> 07:06:56,560
There's no, there's not intended to show any type of delay.

4267
07:06:58,060 --> 07:06:58,820
Thank you.

4268
07:06:59,660 --> 07:07:02,220
Mr. Chair, I actually do have another question for staff.

4269
07:07:02,480 --> 07:07:02,640
Yes.

4270
07:07:02,980 --> 07:07:04,940
Put staff on the hook over here.

4271
07:07:06,960 --> 07:07:15,940
We received a recommendation from Mr. Robbins of changes to the Road Improvements Agreement

4272
07:07:15,940 --> 07:07:20,720
and changes to findings and conditions.

4273
07:07:21,140 --> 07:07:22,380
I know you probably haven't.

4274
07:07:22,380 --> 07:07:28,460
I'm not sure if you've had a chance to review these in detail, but do you believe it might

4275
07:07:28,460 --> 07:07:36,040
be possible to give the commissioners your opinion of these as it relates to the staff

4276
07:07:36,040 --> 07:07:43,580
findings and conclusions after the public comment period this evening?

4277
07:07:43,580 --> 07:07:53,840
At this point, we have certainly not reviewed those proposed amendments extensively.

4278
07:07:54,760 --> 07:07:56,440
We very quickly reviewed them.

4279
07:07:58,020 --> 07:08:04,440
We can certainly try and be prepared to speak more articulately to those amendments this

4280
07:08:04,440 --> 07:08:04,800
evening.

4281
07:08:05,720 --> 07:08:10,740
However, most of the amendments are being proposed or being driven by the idea of

4282
07:08:10,740 --> 07:08:18,200
55 trucks going north, which then would be some fairly significant changes to the project

4283
07:08:18,200 --> 07:08:19,880
as it's been presented by the applicant.

4284
07:08:21,980 --> 07:08:27,240
So we will try and be more prepared this evening, but I'm not sure it's possible at all to

4285
07:08:27,240 --> 07:08:31,060
do a complete analysis of the implications of change of that magnitude.

4286
07:08:32,240 --> 07:08:32,760
Thank you.

4287
07:08:34,240 --> 07:08:36,520
Certainly by tomorrow afternoon, right?

4288
07:08:41,470 --> 07:08:47,470
I'm speaking for my colleagues on this point, but a complete analysis of, I mean, if there's

4289
07:08:47,470 --> 07:08:53,550
a limit from 80 to 55, if staff is of the opinion that 80 trucks can go on North County

4290
07:08:53,550 --> 07:08:57,730
Road 120, then I don't think the issue is 55 trucks can go on North County Road 120.

4291
07:08:58,350 --> 07:09:03,350
If the issue is trying to divert that excess traffic a different direction, I don't think

4292
07:09:03,350 --> 07:09:06,230
that is something that we will be prepared to speak to tomorrow afternoon.

4293
07:09:06,230 --> 07:09:18,350
That would require an analysis both on public works perspective with regard to the road conditions and an analysis from planning regarding compatibility.

4294
07:09:20,590 --> 07:09:21,190
Thank you.

4295
07:09:27,600 --> 07:09:31,320
I think I only have a couple of questions for Mr. Robbins.

4296
07:09:32,420 --> 07:09:38,940
On the road, you had mentioned that the road will change the neighborhood.

4297
07:09:39,360 --> 07:09:41,940
If the road is changed, it would change the neighborhood.

4298
07:09:42,220 --> 07:09:43,920
Can you speak to that a little bit more?

4299
07:09:49,900 --> 07:09:51,460
This is Jeff Robbins for the record.

4300
07:09:52,040 --> 07:09:57,520
And I was paraphrasing, I think, the testimony in particular from Gary Grantham,

4301
07:09:57,880 --> 07:10:00,020
who spoke and is one of the neighbors.

4302
07:10:00,960 --> 07:10:04,260
His point being is that it's a farm-to-market road now.

4303
07:10:04,260 --> 07:10:09,020
In discussions I've had with the neighbors in getting prepared for this hearing, and I'll

4304
07:10:09,020 --> 07:10:15,100
let them pipe up if I'm saying this wrong, they don't want a new paved road.

4305
07:10:15,400 --> 07:10:18,080
They like the road as it is right now.

4306
07:10:18,660 --> 07:10:24,140
But they are cognizant of the fact that everyone in the room is struggling with having to

4307
07:10:24,140 --> 07:10:26,080
figure out a way to get a win-win-win here.

4308
07:10:26,760 --> 07:10:33,340
And if GCC needs 120 ADTs at the end of the day, they'll bite the bullet and take

4309
07:10:33,340 --> 07:10:39,260
the road. But Mr. Grantham's point was that will fundamentally change the neighborhood

4310
07:10:39,780 --> 07:10:45,940
in that we now will have a road similar to La Posta Road next to the Purple Cliffs. I

4311
07:10:45,940 --> 07:10:50,880
think that's the one that we looked at. And I recall La Posta Road before and after

4312
07:10:50,880 --> 07:10:58,760
the improvements and it's a pretty different road. And a road of that magnitude could

4313
07:10:58,760 --> 07:11:02,880
could likely support additional development down that way.

4314
07:11:03,100 --> 07:11:04,640
I mean, if you just sort of think logically

4315
07:11:04,640 --> 07:11:06,800
through what that could open up,

4316
07:11:06,880 --> 07:11:08,660
and I think that was Mr. Grantham's point,

4317
07:11:09,220 --> 07:11:10,700
and I think the other point from the neighbors is

4318
07:11:10,700 --> 07:11:14,060
they like their small farm-to-market road

4319
07:11:14,060 --> 07:11:16,220
that's there now, but they're trying to come

4320
07:11:16,220 --> 07:11:19,880
to some solution-based orientation for you.

4321
07:11:20,440 --> 07:11:21,960
So I think that was the point.

4322
07:11:22,900 --> 07:11:23,580
Thank you.

4323
07:11:31,070 --> 07:11:32,990
I think that's all the questions I had

4324
07:11:34,870 --> 07:11:36,870
appreciate you following up on that.

4325
07:11:42,070 --> 07:11:43,250
Any other questions?

4326
07:11:45,010 --> 07:11:53,210
I do, but I don't want to, I mean, I don't know, I do have questions, but for staff, but I don't know if you want to start at 12 minutes after 4 or not.

4327
07:11:56,580 --> 07:11:57,680
Yes, Mr. Huntington.

4328
07:12:12,570 --> 07:12:19,610
Mr. Huntington, can you wait a minute, if you're going to, first of all, we need to decide if you're allowed to talk again since we closed public testimony.

4329
07:12:19,610 --> 07:12:21,590
If you are, you'll need to come up to the mic.

4330
07:12:21,910 --> 07:12:23,430
So if you wait just a second.

4331
07:12:24,890 --> 07:12:30,570
If you open it up, then you have to open it up to whoever else wants to comment,

4332
07:12:30,730 --> 07:12:31,950
or he can wait till tonight.

4333
07:12:38,780 --> 07:12:42,400
If Mr. Huntington is going to talk about where there have been accidents on the south route,

4334
07:12:42,740 --> 07:12:45,960
I think I have what I need to know already as it relates to that.

4335
07:12:47,080 --> 07:12:52,140
I think I do as well, but you would be more than welcome to comment again this evening

4336
07:12:52,140 --> 07:12:54,020
if you can make it back to that meeting.

4337
07:12:59,760 --> 07:13:01,740
Should I ask questions or just hold off till later?

4338
07:13:02,240 --> 07:13:08,500
Are these questions you want on the record, or is this a staff question?

4339
07:13:08,640 --> 07:13:10,980
These are staff questions I would have to ask on the record.

4340
07:13:11,480 --> 07:13:14,280
I would be in favor of continuing.

4341
07:13:15,740 --> 07:13:16,020
Okay.

4342
07:13:16,440 --> 07:13:19,380
I had specific questions as it relates to the staff report,

4343
07:13:19,520 --> 07:13:21,420
so please have that handy, Mr. Morari.

4344
07:13:24,620 --> 07:13:35,880
Page 47, item number 26, it talks about if truck traffic increases, there would be a need for a new permit.

4345
07:13:36,680 --> 07:13:41,140
And I'm wondering what's the definition of how do we know if truck traffic is increasing?

4346
07:13:42,260 --> 07:13:43,600
What's the trigger for that?

4347
07:13:48,050 --> 07:13:51,470
So, Daniel Murray, I'll take the first crack at this and add a may add on to it.

4348
07:13:51,730 --> 07:13:53,990
We're talking about condition number 26.

4349
07:13:53,990 --> 07:14:00,730
And this was just an absolute explicit reference that any increase in trucks warrants a major amendment.

4350
07:14:01,050 --> 07:14:05,070
That was a recommendation from the CAP, citizen advisory panel.

4351
07:14:05,650 --> 07:14:11,990
There are 14 instances where these conditions are directly traceable to be at the CAP or North 120 neighbors.

4352
07:14:12,310 --> 07:14:21,230
So that is one where we are just reiterating a recommendation from the public that it be very clear these truck numbers are absolute

4353
07:14:21,230 --> 07:14:24,910
and that an increase of one warrants a major amendment.

4354
07:14:25,290 --> 07:14:28,910
So that's to say, if the full improvements were implemented

4355
07:14:29,490 --> 07:14:33,410
and the 120 trucks per day were the number,

4356
07:14:33,870 --> 07:14:38,250
if it went to 121, well, we'll take the average.

4357
07:14:38,370 --> 07:14:40,110
But if the average became 121,

4358
07:14:40,670 --> 07:14:45,290
that that would be a major amendment.

4359
07:14:45,610 --> 07:14:47,150
Correct. That's the intent of the condition.

4360
07:14:48,690 --> 07:14:50,090
So, would GCC understand?

4361
07:14:53,860 --> 07:14:57,740
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, yes, that is GCC's understanding, and I would additionally

4362
07:14:57,740 --> 07:14:59,960
know that the way you will know what the truck number is.

4363
07:15:00,000 --> 07:15:05,180
For hours that GCC is required to do actual reporting and to provide that information not

4364
07:15:05,180 --> 07:15:08,780
only to the county but to the public through the website that I mentioned previously.

4365
07:15:11,480 --> 07:15:11,780
So

4366
07:15:11,780 --> 07:15:17,360
it's whether GCC affirmatively wanted to request the opportunity to add additional trucks or

4367
07:15:17,360 --> 07:15:21,840
whether it became evident through actual reporting data that they had increased the number of

4368
07:15:21,840 --> 07:15:25,720
trucks whether inadvertently or not that a major amendment would be required.

4369
07:15:26,900 --> 07:15:27,900
Okay, thank you.

4370
07:15:29,320 --> 07:15:32,780
I'd like to spend some time looking at the road improvement agreement.

4371
07:15:32,960 --> 07:15:39,300
That is a crux of what we're looking at today, and that will require me to get into this.

4372
07:15:39,300 --> 07:15:45,980
Before we move off that issue, I think the example that Mr. Murray offered was an increase to the 120 max,

4373
07:15:46,100 --> 07:15:50,780
but I believe it would be any increase to the truck numbers as referenced in condition 15A.

4374
07:15:51,520 --> 07:15:54,980
That is the chart that dictates all the different truck numbers for the different phases.

4375
07:15:54,980 --> 07:16:02,000
And if it would make the condition more clear, we can certainly add a reference to the truck

4376
07:16:02,000 --> 07:16:05,920
numbers as shown on the chart in condition 15A.

4377
07:16:07,560 --> 07:16:14,040
I just want to make sure everybody was on the same page, and it sounds like everyone

4378
07:16:14,040 --> 07:16:16,560
is as far as that condition is concerned.

4379
07:16:16,560 --> 07:16:24,900
So with respect to the Road Improvement Agreement, first,

4380
07:16:31,130 --> 07:16:46,710
under 1.4, it talks about grants, and I just wanted to get a recognition from GCC that we absolutely believe that our grant opportunities for projects that would apply to this will be going down.

4381
07:16:46,710 --> 07:16:53,010
Now, every indicator is that the state of Colorado has less and less money to even from

4382
07:16:53,010 --> 07:16:59,230
energy impact grants due to a recent Supreme Court decision that we are now in a hiatus

4383
07:16:59,230 --> 07:17:02,790
for the next two rounds of even getting money of any kind.

4384
07:17:03,030 --> 07:17:10,130
So I want GCC to understand when we had the first conversation, when the first discussed

4385
07:17:10,130 --> 07:17:13,890
possible energy impact monies, we're not in the same world anymore.

4386
07:17:15,530 --> 07:17:20,170
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, the comment is certainly acknowledged. We are actively involved

4387
07:17:20,170 --> 07:17:23,850
in those discussions with the Joint Budget Committee and well aware of the Supreme Court

4388
07:17:23,850 --> 07:17:28,470
decision that you're referencing and hope to work closely with the county to do our

4389
07:17:28,470 --> 07:17:32,470
best to maximize La Plata County's opportunity to get whatever money is available.

4390
07:17:34,610 --> 07:17:35,370
All right, thanks.

4391
07:17:38,930 --> 07:17:41,570
I kind of hesitate to get into this conversation, but we've got

4392
07:17:41,570 --> 07:17:48,110
to get into it sometime. And that is, I think, high on all of the people in this room, at

4393
07:17:48,110 --> 07:17:53,070
least in the front-row's mind, as well as in my own mind, is how do we enforce compliance?

4394
07:17:54,070 --> 07:18:01,590
There have been times when we understood that there would be actions taken on GCC's part

4395
07:18:01,590 --> 07:18:04,890
that would improve situations that either didn't happen in the timeframe that we hoped

4396
07:18:04,890 --> 07:18:08,790
they would, or they were the temporary road that decayed very quickly, all that kind

4397
07:18:08,790 --> 07:18:16,270
of stuff. So this is, you know, I think for staff, more than anybody, but how are we safe?

4398
07:18:16,470 --> 07:18:26,410
How do we know that if, you know, end of June 2016 turns out to middle of August 2016,

4399
07:18:26,790 --> 07:18:34,090
how, where is enforceability in this and how are we protected? So, care to take that

4400
07:18:34,090 --> 07:18:34,610
one, Ms. Rogers?

4401
07:18:35,590 --> 07:18:44,270
Yes, as previously discussed, we have the standard code enforcement process, but I think

4402
07:18:44,270 --> 07:18:51,450
as the Board is aware from some of our other instances, it is somewhat of a blunt sword,

4403
07:18:51,790 --> 07:18:57,970
not quite as responsive time-wise as we would like.

4404
07:18:59,510 --> 07:19:08,450
So, we do have this contract, and we did pay particular attention to the enforcement provisions

4405
07:19:08,450 --> 07:19:09,830
that are in the document.

4406
07:19:10,170 --> 07:19:18,510
So after we have gone through it, there is an opportunity where we would give GCC notice

4407
07:19:18,510 --> 07:19:28,090
and, you know, they have opportunities to cure, but we believe that contractually it

4408
07:19:28,090 --> 07:19:33,870
is an effective mechanism, however, even that takes time.

4409
07:19:34,590 --> 07:19:44,010
One of the things that is available on occasion for counties as well is to try to seek injunctive

4410
07:19:44,010 --> 07:19:54,850
relief and that process allows a county or neighbors or others to try to get the activity

4411
07:19:54,850 --> 07:19:59,430
to actually cease until the applicant can come into compliance.

4412
07:20:00,620 --> 07:20:08,010
We have not gone so far as to include that sort of language in the RIA.

4413
07:20:08,470 --> 07:20:12,450
It is something that would otherwise have to be demonstrated in court.

4414
07:20:13,790 --> 07:20:18,970
There are a number of elements that would have to be demonstrated by the county in order

4415
07:20:18,970 --> 07:20:27,210
for injunctive relief to be given, and I can cover those if the board would like, but short

4416
07:20:27,210 --> 07:20:33,770
of the use of that or not using that single tool, we do believe we have brought everything

4417
07:20:33,770 --> 07:20:36,530
else to the table that we can from a legal perspective.

4418
07:20:41,790 --> 07:20:49,890
Mr. Chair, along that line of questioning, when I asked an enforcement question earlier

4419
07:20:49,890 --> 07:20:57,330
today, Council for GCC stated that they also are committing to put up a financial assurance.

4420
07:20:57,810 --> 07:20:58,930
Can you describe that?

4421
07:20:59,010 --> 07:21:03,590
Yeah, the financial assurance will relate to each phase of the improvement.

4422
07:21:03,590 --> 07:21:11,550
So, if they begin to undertake improvements, we would have 120% security.

4423
07:21:12,310 --> 07:21:20,370
At that point, we would have to get the surety, the company that actually provided the bond to perform.

4424
07:21:21,070 --> 07:21:26,390
I've done that before. It's another task that's not that easy to accomplish.

4425
07:21:27,250 --> 07:21:32,730
However, while it provides the county some protection to whatever phase we happen to be in,

4426
07:21:32,730 --> 07:21:37,990
It's not an overarching sort of process.

4427
07:21:38,690 --> 07:21:44,530
You know, if it happens in phase five, that'll be much simpler because we have the bond and then everything will be complete.

4428
07:21:44,930 --> 07:21:52,430
If it happens in phase one, all we have is the money to complete phase one and we have problems with respect to the future phases.

4429
07:21:56,540 --> 07:21:57,200
Thank you.

4430
07:21:59,440 --> 07:22:04,680
Mr. Chairman, if you'd care to hear the answer from GCC in terms of our interpretation of

4431
07:22:04,680 --> 07:22:09,400
your question of what enforcement mechanisms the county have, I'd be glad to provide that

4432
07:22:09,400 --> 07:22:10,220
as well at this time.

4433
07:22:12,570 --> 07:22:13,190
Thank you.

4434
07:22:15,550 --> 07:22:20,250
As noted before, there's the two alternative legal mechanisms, and that is either enforcement

4435
07:22:20,250 --> 07:22:23,890
under the contract, which is the section that the county attorney was just referencing,

4436
07:22:24,330 --> 07:22:26,610
and then there's also your code enforcement mechanism.

4437
07:22:26,610 --> 07:22:31,270
And under the contract you have two mechanisms of enforcement, one is by calling on the performance

4438
07:22:31,270 --> 07:22:37,170
bond, which is by phases, but you also have the opportunity to proceed with a breach of

4439
07:22:37,170 --> 07:22:38,730
contract or other type of action.

4440
07:22:39,010 --> 07:22:43,010
And I would turn your attention to section 6.2, which is all the remedies available

4441
07:22:43,010 --> 07:22:46,050
to the county, which does include injunctive relief.

4442
07:22:46,510 --> 07:22:49,990
As the county attorney noted, you still have to prove the elements of injunctive relief

4443
07:22:49,990 --> 07:22:51,310
to a court in order to get that.

4444
07:22:51,310 --> 07:22:57,890
But my point, I think, is that this draft of the RIA, and I'm referencing the one that's in your packet,

4445
07:22:58,050 --> 07:23:01,550
not the alternative red-line draft proposed by the opponents this afternoon,

4446
07:23:01,890 --> 07:23:05,630
which we have not yet had a chance to review and which we have not approved and not executed.

4447
07:23:06,130 --> 07:23:10,750
But the draft that's in your packet is one that GCC agreed to and signed,

4448
07:23:10,890 --> 07:23:16,410
and all of the language in the remedies section is the complete and original language proposed by the county.

4449
07:23:16,410 --> 07:23:22,310
What I mean by that is although we discussed at different times and attempted to negotiate

4450
07:23:23,810 --> 07:23:27,950
provisions which would reduce the impact of that and weaken the ability of the county

4451
07:23:27,950 --> 07:23:32,610
to enforce that agreement, none of those discussions made it into the final version

4452
07:23:32,610 --> 07:23:38,610
and the final version is the strongest possible original language that GCC has in fact agreed

4453
07:23:38,610 --> 07:23:38,870
to.

4454
07:23:39,350 --> 07:23:44,490
So I would say you have really three or four alternative legal mechanisms, code

4455
07:23:44,490 --> 07:23:49,090
enforcement under the contract, which includes the Alternatives and Junctive Relief breach

4456
07:23:49,090 --> 07:23:52,430
of contract, as well as the 120 percent bond requirement.

4457
07:23:52,990 --> 07:23:58,050
In addition, I would add that there's an additional level of enforcement, and that

4458
07:23:58,050 --> 07:24:03,410
is GCC's commitment as it relates to this issue, and I recognize that there are obviously

4459
07:24:03,410 --> 07:24:05,110
some in the room who question that commitment.

4460
07:24:05,490 --> 07:24:08,630
But what I would note is that all of the conversations that have occurred to date

4461
07:24:08,630 --> 07:24:14,730
about things that the county would request that GCC undertake have occurred in the absence

4462
07:24:14,730 --> 07:24:19,270
of GCC having any assurances that it would receive a permit and be able to continue its

4463
07:24:19,270 --> 07:24:24,630
operations. If this permit is granted, it is granted with conditions and it very well

4464
07:24:24,630 --> 07:24:29,450
understands that in order to continue operation it will need to comply with those conditions.

4465
07:24:29,890 --> 07:24:35,110
So I wanted to take the opportunity to emphasize that issue for you because it was very

4466
07:24:35,110 --> 07:24:39,730
difficult for both the county and GCC to have conversations about what mitigation measures

4467
07:24:39,730 --> 07:24:44,030
it might undertake in the absence of any certainty about whether or not a permit would actually

4468
07:24:44,030 --> 07:24:44,590
be granted.

4469
07:24:49,640 --> 07:24:50,420
Thank you for that.

4470
07:24:50,600 --> 07:24:57,140
Thank you for that explanation or clarification and commitment I believe was your words.

4471
07:25:00,450 --> 07:25:09,130
Just is there any concern or requirement as it relates to the condition of the temporary

4472
07:25:09,130 --> 07:25:19,970
pavement that's proposed under the RIA. We had a less than favorable experience with a

4473
07:25:19,970 --> 07:25:24,310
temporary solution over the winter and just want to know what assurances do we have that

4474
07:25:24,790 --> 07:25:27,650
will have a better experience this way this time.

4475
07:25:29,250 --> 07:25:33,130
We have all the confidence that it will be done correctly. It will be permitted by

4476
07:25:33,130 --> 07:25:38,390
the county. A geotech report will be required. It's a professional application of hot

4477
07:25:38,390 --> 07:25:43,650
in that asphalt. It was a crude attempt at trying to mitigate the dust, the application

4478
07:25:43,650 --> 07:25:50,170
of the recycled asphalt pavement known as RAP. That was basically a loose mix. They tried

4479
07:25:50,170 --> 07:25:54,530
to put that down possibly with some binder, but they got caught late in the season. I

4480
07:25:54,530 --> 07:25:59,570
think it was mid to late November. It was a cold wet weather was coming in, so it didn't

4481
07:25:59,570 --> 07:26:04,650
take it all. That would have been a lot less of a permanent solution than what's

4482
07:26:04,650 --> 07:26:06,030
being proposed at this time.

4483
07:26:06,030 --> 07:26:09,770
In the lifespan of this temporary pavement is expected to be three years?

4484
07:26:10,590 --> 07:26:12,010
That's what I heard today.

4485
07:26:12,150 --> 07:26:13,630
At a minimum it would be three years.

4486
07:26:13,770 --> 07:26:18,490
You can base the design of that pavement based on the anticipated axle loading.

4487
07:26:18,690 --> 07:26:23,890
So based on the vehicles that the pavement will have to support over the life of the pavement,

4488
07:26:24,390 --> 07:26:30,010
you can design that pass fault for whatever duration within reason.

4489
07:26:30,190 --> 07:26:34,870
On a new road typically that's 20 years, but three years would be acceptable.

4490
07:26:34,870 --> 07:26:36,810
And I think we have a fairly good base out there.

4491
07:26:36,910 --> 07:26:42,350
There's a fair amount of gravel that's been driven on by heavy trucks for a number of years now.

4492
07:26:42,530 --> 07:26:50,430
So I would expect we should have a high level of success with this interim asphalt mat.

4493
07:26:51,890 --> 07:26:57,250
And then on the road improvement schedule, which I seem not to be able to put my hands on,

4494
07:26:58,250 --> 07:27:04,690
Is that section of the road to be finished by 2019?

4495
07:27:08,230 --> 07:27:10,490
There's three years, I'm just trying to figure out,

4496
07:27:10,490 --> 07:27:12,690
is three years long enough for what's anticipated?

4497
07:27:12,870 --> 07:27:17,890
Actually, I believe the road is anticipated to be completed in 2017, if I'm not mistaken.

4498
07:27:18,930 --> 07:27:22,310
So it basically would be recycled the following year.

4499
07:27:23,170 --> 07:27:24,250
Okay, thanks.

4500
07:27:25,630 --> 07:27:26,370
And

4501
07:27:34,110 --> 07:27:34,450
then,

4502
07:27:36,460 --> 07:27:40,100
yeah, that's it for me on the road improvement agreement.

4503
07:27:40,360 --> 07:27:40,580
Thank you.

4504
07:28:01,700 --> 07:28:03,280
Commissioner, any further questions?

4505
07:28:05,540 --> 07:28:09,700
A request of Mr. Robbins for this evening's rebuttal.

4506
07:28:10,000 --> 07:28:16,560
If you could be prepared to discuss how your findings

4507
07:28:16,560 --> 07:28:19,120
and conditions vary from the counties,

4508
07:28:19,360 --> 07:28:22,060
as well as the road improvements agreement,

4509
07:28:22,060 --> 07:28:29,020
My initial look through this doesn't seem like you had too many changes to the road improvements agreement.

4510
07:28:29,460 --> 07:28:30,480
Yes, we'll do that.

4511
07:28:30,660 --> 07:28:31,040
Thank you.

4512
07:28:35,180 --> 07:28:39,140
I'm wondering if we need some time outside of rebuttal to talk about that.

4513
07:28:39,640 --> 07:28:44,700
I can see it taking each party wanting to make some comments on it.

4514
07:28:44,780 --> 07:28:47,220
Maybe we could just give 10 minutes each.

4515
07:28:47,620 --> 07:28:48,100
I don't know.

4516
07:28:48,180 --> 07:28:48,860
It's up to you guys.

4517
07:28:50,020 --> 07:28:50,940
That'd be fine.

4518
07:28:52,640 --> 07:28:54,520
That would be in this evening's.

4519
07:28:54,520 --> 07:28:57,980
Yeah, maybe after public comment before rebuttal

4520
07:29:02,480 --> 07:29:06,140
If I'm understanding where you guys might be headed right now

4521
07:29:06,140 --> 07:29:12,280
I'd like some direction before we go into a break from you in terms of what conditions we should be working on

4522
07:29:12,280 --> 07:29:15,180
for example, you've heard us offer a

4523
07:29:15,760 --> 07:29:21,220
29th condition regarding an emergency response plan if that's agreeable. We'll come back with that

4524
07:29:21,220 --> 07:29:27,460
I've also heard discussion around noise levels, and I'm looking for direction if that's something

4525
07:29:27,460 --> 07:29:28,460
we should come back with.

4526
07:29:29,180 --> 07:29:32,300
Compliance with other agencies, that was another one.

4527
07:29:33,800 --> 07:29:36,380
Those are the three that stick out in my mind.

4528
07:29:36,460 --> 07:29:39,060
If there's others, that's what I'm asking.

4529
07:29:41,360 --> 07:29:49,520
Mr. Chair, if I may, the request I made earlier, Mr. Smith responded that probably not adequate

4530
07:29:49,520 --> 07:29:58,920
but to have some discussion of the suggestion of splitting the 80 trucks per day, 25 going south, 55 going north.

4531
07:30:00,000 --> 07:30:06,860
That's a really short time period, but that is a specific request that we've heard today

4532
07:30:06,860 --> 07:30:07,260
repeatedly.

4533
07:30:08,420 --> 07:30:15,720
That's an additional issue that the commissioners would like to see further study on. There's

4534
07:30:15,720 --> 07:30:21,160
a mechanism in the code for requesting that that study occur. It's something that should

4535
07:30:21,160 --> 07:30:25,840
be directed at the applicant, and then staff would, of course, review any additional study

4536
07:30:25,840 --> 07:30:33,580
that came in, but absent more work on what 25 trucks looks like going south, I'm not

4537
07:30:33,580 --> 07:30:38,120
sure staff is in a position to opine on the appropriateness of that either from compliance

4538
07:30:38,120 --> 07:30:39,600
in Chapter 74, compatibility.

4539
07:30:40,080 --> 07:30:42,980
I mean, we certainly don't want to rush into any determinations.

4540
07:30:43,600 --> 07:30:47,760
An additional 25 trucks going south on a road that has not been analyzed from that perspective

4541
07:30:47,760 --> 07:30:52,400
would be, well, it would be difficult to come up with that in a couple of hours

4542
07:30:52,400 --> 07:30:52,680
time.

4543
07:30:54,160 --> 07:30:54,780
Understood.

4544
07:31:00,860 --> 07:31:05,220
So then I guess I would, Mr. Chair, I would direct that question to GCC, as Mr. Smith

4545
07:31:06,690 --> 07:31:18,820
suggested, and any analysis or to Cross Creek, I'm sorry, is it Cross Creek Ranch, of any

4546
07:31:18,820 --> 07:31:24,140
analysis, additional analysis that you can provide tonight?

4547
07:31:29,400 --> 07:31:34,040
There's a couple of things, including particularly the condition that Daniel mentioned, that

4548
07:31:34,040 --> 07:31:42,720
I brought up earlier related to compliance with other permits issued by other agencies.

4549
07:31:43,460 --> 07:31:50,540
I think that's a great idea, but I'm concerned by the difficulty that in our playing a

4550
07:31:50,540 --> 07:31:52,980
role in enforcing that may be.

4551
07:31:52,980 --> 07:31:58,960
and I would like an opportunity to seek legal counsel from our own attorney in

4552
07:31:58,960 --> 07:32:06,780
executive session before kind of I don't know I think when I enough legal issues

4553
07:32:06,780 --> 07:32:11,380
have come up that there's a number I'd like to get a legal counsel on an

4554
07:32:11,380 --> 07:32:17,160
executive session and I don't know if you guys have the same sentiment and if

4555
07:32:17,160 --> 07:32:25,980
If you do, I kind of feel like that's the kind of conversation that should happen after

4556
07:32:25,980 --> 07:32:30,980
we've heard all of the evidence as opposed to in the middle of, kind of I feel like we're

4557
07:32:30,980 --> 07:32:35,280
still in the middle and I'd rather do the legal counsel after we've heard everything.

4558
07:32:35,740 --> 07:32:37,120
But what's your thoughts?

4559
07:32:38,560 --> 07:32:45,740
Well, Mr. Chair, I would, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying to get legal

4560
07:32:45,740 --> 07:32:52,640
Council on the federal and state permits that have been issued and how it relates to the

4561
07:32:52,640 --> 07:32:53,540
county process?

4562
07:32:54,660 --> 07:33:02,680
No, it's, that I don't think is legal advice. It really has to do with the legal implications

4563
07:33:02,680 --> 07:33:10,120
of us taking on, basically, if there were a violation of, say, a permit with the

4564
07:33:10,120 --> 07:33:14,700
state, it would be in the states choosing not to act, then we would have to take

4565
07:33:14,700 --> 07:33:18,440
actions to determine is that a violation and how does that affect the permit?

4566
07:33:18,960 --> 07:33:26,760
And that sounds like there could be challenges with our, you know, that just sounds like

4567
07:33:26,760 --> 07:33:27,800
there could be challenges with it.

4568
07:33:28,100 --> 07:33:31,440
I think it's theoretically a good idea and practice it could be a poor idea and I'd

4569
07:33:31,440 --> 07:33:36,780
like to get legal advice on that particular matter going forward.

4570
07:33:37,180 --> 07:33:41,400
And I wouldn't mind the opportunity to talk with you as well about the Road Improvement

4571
07:33:42,980 --> 07:33:48,660
I haven't looked at the modifications, but given the nature of some of your questions,

4572
07:33:49,560 --> 07:33:53,440
I think it would be beneficial to discuss that as well.

4573
07:33:57,980 --> 07:34:02,560
So, do you guys think having a meeting with our council would be a good idea?

4574
07:34:04,660 --> 07:34:06,560
Do we get a nap first?

4575
07:34:08,860 --> 07:34:14,280
And your recommendation is either following tonight's meeting or...

4576
07:34:17,130 --> 07:34:18,130
Yeah, that's my that

4577
07:34:18,770 --> 07:34:22,570
that is what I was saying is not doing it right now because we're in midstream

4578
07:34:25,210 --> 07:34:28,170
you know I think we just have to take a hard look at calendars and when

4579
07:34:28,170 --> 07:34:30,630
can when it's realistic to have it

4580
07:34:31,330 --> 07:34:34,710
we have a board discussion time scheduled tomorrow I don't know is

4581
07:34:34,710 --> 07:34:36,370
there anything on that that couldn't be

4582
07:34:37,410 --> 07:34:38,210
reprioritized Joe?

4583
07:34:39,210 --> 07:34:42,570
I'm aware of that agenda for tomorrow morning I think you

4584
07:34:42,570 --> 07:34:47,410
would be able to forego that if necessary we also have identified a time in

4585
07:34:47,410 --> 07:34:52,010
in the afternoon that you could also continue the meeting to as well.

4586
07:34:52,450 --> 07:34:54,690
Yeah, I thought we had from 12.30 to 3.

4587
07:34:55,290 --> 07:35:01,510
We tend to only have that blocked out in case the board needs it, but we could also meet in the morning, if necessary.

4588
07:35:02,990 --> 07:35:13,910
We have a special business meeting at 8.15, and otherwise, as long scheduled, I will be gone from 9 to 10 tomorrow.

4589
07:35:13,910 --> 07:35:22,630
Okay, so I guess in it all in all my preference is to do it at 10 o'clock or

4590
07:35:22,630 --> 07:35:27,350
10 15 whenever you would get back and scratch the BDT if we get the board

4591
07:35:27,350 --> 07:35:32,230
discussion time. This is our highest priority and I don't want to just

4592
07:35:32,230 --> 07:35:37,230
change it because you know we've got other regular business going on.

4593
07:35:41,010 --> 07:35:41,570
Okay,

4594
07:35:41,570 --> 07:35:46,310
then each party's rebuttal would be occurring tomorrow?

4595
07:35:46,910 --> 07:35:48,750
Or do you wanna hear the rebuttal tonight?

4596
07:35:49,310 --> 07:35:49,450
You

4597
07:35:52,810 --> 07:35:53,150
guys think?

4598
07:35:55,820 --> 07:35:59,740
Probably tonight because then we would have it

4599
07:35:59,740 --> 07:36:01,840
for our executive session tomorrow.

4600
07:36:02,320 --> 07:36:04,980
And it sounds like our earliest available time

4601
07:36:04,980 --> 07:36:06,240
is gonna be 10, 15.

4602
07:36:08,880 --> 07:36:14,220
And what I'm envisioning is 10, 15

4603
07:36:14,220 --> 07:36:15,480
for the executive session.

4604
07:36:16,320 --> 07:36:19,080
And then any,

4605
07:36:21,240 --> 07:36:26,700
I guess, the public deliberation part or whatever in the afternoon as scheduled.

4606
07:36:29,160 --> 07:36:30,040
Is that all right with you, Brad?

4607
07:36:30,480 --> 07:36:30,800
Yes.

4608
07:36:31,880 --> 07:36:39,000
And then tonight, before we close the hearing, we'll move to go into executive session at 10 a.m.

4609
07:36:39,880 --> 07:36:40,540
I think we have to.

4610
07:36:40,660 --> 07:36:41,160
10, 15?

4611
07:36:41,480 --> 07:36:41,620
Yes.

4612
07:36:41,980 --> 07:36:42,020
Okay.

4613
07:36:44,930 --> 07:36:46,630
Do we need a motion on that?

4614
07:36:47,310 --> 07:36:48,110
Not right now.

4615
07:36:48,190 --> 07:36:48,670
Not right now.

4616
07:36:48,710 --> 07:36:49,350
Do it tonight, yeah.

4617
07:36:49,350 --> 07:36:52,100
We'll do that later.

4618
07:36:54,540 --> 07:36:56,580
Any further questions?

4619
07:37:01,640 --> 07:37:02,380
Seeing none.

4620
07:37:03,920 --> 07:37:08,740
Can you continue our meeting until 6 o'clock this evening?

4621
07:37:12,480 --> 07:37:12,820
Yes.

4622
07:37:13,460 --> 07:37:16,160
We have an expert with us here.

4623
07:37:16,640 --> 07:37:17,780
Can you speak into the microphone?

4624
07:37:17,920 --> 07:37:18,860
Oh, I'm so sorry.

4625
07:37:20,440 --> 07:37:22,080
Danielson for Cross Creek Ranch.

4626
07:37:22,480 --> 07:37:28,520
I'm just wondering, is there a chance the board would want to talk to or question Mr. Hudson at all tomorrow?

4627
07:37:28,520 --> 07:37:32,640
or should we let him go back to Colorado Springs?

4628
07:37:33,460 --> 07:37:34,480
That's the question.

4629
07:37:35,820 --> 07:37:38,700
Can he make himself available by telephone if he has a question?

4630
07:37:38,700 --> 07:37:41,640
As long as we're asking that question, we have several experts here as well.

4631
07:37:41,720 --> 07:37:46,800
It does sound like you are heading towards planning on using the time you've set aside tomorrow

4632
07:37:46,800 --> 07:37:49,040
and not completing the hearing tonight.

4633
07:37:49,280 --> 07:37:53,140
So could you give us a ruling on that so we can make travel arrangements?

4634
07:37:57,580 --> 07:38:02,480
I guess I think you can expect to be here tomorrow afternoon.

4635
07:38:04,600 --> 07:38:11,260
Honestly, I'm not personally anticipating additional questions in terms of testimony,

4636
07:38:11,500 --> 07:38:16,480
but I don't want to say that's out of the question either because stuff comes up.

4637
07:38:17,680 --> 07:38:23,360
I think I did inform you guys of the possibility of a continuation until tomorrow about a week ago.

4638
07:38:23,880 --> 07:38:24,300
Sure.

4639
07:38:24,480 --> 07:38:24,900
Sure.

4640
07:38:25,160 --> 07:38:28,100
We're looking for the best guidance we could get.

4641
07:38:31,220 --> 07:38:34,980
So you suggested if he was available by phone, that to you guys.

4642
07:38:35,260 --> 07:38:37,580
It sounds like that might be a task that works for me.

4643
07:38:38,240 --> 07:38:43,040
Well, yeah, I don't know and maybe we can make the call this evening after they've finished

4644
07:38:43,040 --> 07:38:48,640
their statements because I kind of feel like, I mean at some point you have to close evidence.

4645
07:38:48,640 --> 07:38:53,460
and my sense is that we would close evidence tonight

4646
07:38:53,460 --> 07:38:56,760
and tomorrow would be deliberation,

4647
07:38:57,340 --> 07:38:59,620
which wouldn't require additional information.

4648
07:39:06,270 --> 07:39:11,910
I guess we'll know more after our meeting tonight

4649
07:39:11,910 --> 07:39:17,490
on the final verdict of whether you can go back to Colorado Springs or not.

4650
07:39:17,670 --> 07:39:19,330
But it sounds more likely than not.

4651
07:39:20,190 --> 07:39:22,070
Related to that point, if I may,

4652
07:39:22,070 --> 07:39:27,570
I would just note that rebuttal by definition is the last thing at the conclusion of all

4653
07:39:27,570 --> 07:39:28,350
public testimony.

4654
07:39:28,630 --> 07:39:33,390
So if there would be additional public testimony, I would anticipate we would request that we

4655
07:39:33,390 --> 07:39:36,810
delay our rebuttal opportunity until all public testimony is concluded.

4656
07:39:37,350 --> 07:39:38,510
Experts and public.

4657
07:39:43,560 --> 07:39:44,160
Thank you.

4658
07:39:45,100 --> 07:39:46,640
That's, that'll be fine.

4659
07:39:48,120 --> 07:39:48,940
All right.

4660
07:39:49,740 --> 07:39:54,740
We will again continue our meeting until 6 p.m. this evening.

4661
07:39:54,740 --> 07:39:55,480
Thank you.

4662
09:04:58,060 --> 09:04:59,700
Testing. Good evening.

4663
09:05:04,600 --> 09:05:06,380
Do you have us turned up?

4664
09:05:07,420 --> 09:05:07,920
Thank you.

4665
09:05:12,100 --> 09:05:12,100
Good

4666
09:05:15,910 --> 09:05:16,690
evening.

4667
09:05:34,400 --> 09:05:34,920
Thank you.

4668
09:05:35,820 --> 09:05:41,740
Thank you for coming. We're going to reconvene our meeting and take public comment again this evening.

4669
09:05:42,380 --> 09:05:51,640
If you work here earlier and you would like to make public comment, please pick up a pink slip from Jan.

4670
09:05:53,800 --> 09:05:56,740
And sometimes they're over by the sink in the back.

4671
09:05:56,920 --> 09:06:00,980
You can also fill out a public or a pink slip for public comment.

4672
09:06:01,420 --> 09:06:08,840
We will be limiting public comment to three minutes, so please take the opportunity.

4673
09:06:11,050 --> 09:06:18,860
Do we have any public comment slips available now, Jim?

4674
09:06:18,860 --> 09:06:19,620
What

4675
09:06:33,380 --> 09:06:41,780
I'll do is I'll try to look ahead a little bit on who is coming up and then who

4676
09:06:41,780 --> 09:06:46,880
will be followed so we can kind of get three people ready all at once.

4677
09:06:47,320 --> 09:06:47,760
First

4678
09:06:52,370 --> 09:06:56,330
public comment this evening will be Brandon Waddell.

4679
09:06:56,330 --> 09:07:07,470
Waddell on deck will be Dave Peters and then Kayla Patterson I

4680
09:07:10,450 --> 09:07:11,370
am Brandon Waddell

4681
09:07:11,370 --> 09:07:17,690
I live at 9588 County Road 141 Pestpress 81326 and the owner of Wellow and

4682
09:07:17,690 --> 09:07:23,490
Wheels water hauling here in the county. I deliver water on 90% of the county

4683
09:07:23,490 --> 09:07:28,310
roads here in La Plata County. I can assure you that I'm a great monitor of

4684
09:07:28,310 --> 09:07:33,910
the conditions of our county roads with the new truck speed limits in place on

4685
09:07:33,910 --> 09:07:40,150
counter 120. I believe it's as safe or safer than most county roads in the

4686
09:07:40,150 --> 09:07:45,150
Plata County despite the tight turns or narrow lanes. Nonetheless, I'd like to see

4687
09:07:45,150 --> 09:07:49,990
GCC do what they're gonna do. I think it's the right idea. I feel that the

4688
09:07:49,990 --> 09:07:52,450
especially dangerous roads in this county are the ones that are straight

4689
09:07:52,450 --> 09:07:57,150
and wide because people just motor down them with no regard to speed

4690
09:07:58,790 --> 09:08:03,350
Why hasn't the county laid mag chloride this year on County Road 120 is a question that I have.

4691
09:08:04,210 --> 09:08:04,690
When

4692
09:08:08,050 --> 09:08:14,390
Road and Bridge worked, County Road 120 was mag chloride and we used water as well to mitigate the 15 to 50% of leftover dust.

4693
09:08:15,170 --> 09:08:18,950
I can guarantee it was much closer to non-existent when both resources were used.

4694
09:08:19,990 --> 09:08:27,430
I asked if the county commissioners put in place a more aggressive mag chloride schedule on County Road 120 until GCC completes the road construction.

4695
09:08:29,830 --> 09:08:33,210
Using Canard Road 120 South, in my opinion, is a viable route.

4696
09:08:34,150 --> 09:08:36,790
I travel it weekly, multiple times a week.

4697
09:08:36,990 --> 09:08:40,670
You're around with 18-wheeler, like the 30-ton coal hauler trucks.

4698
09:08:41,970 --> 09:08:45,850
I think if you're an aware professional courteous and law-abiding driver,

4699
09:08:46,010 --> 09:08:50,530
then there's nothing wrong with that road or intersections exiting out on South Canard Road 120.

4700
09:08:51,650 --> 09:08:55,390
The exit of 120 onto the highway has a long distance of sight line,

4701
09:08:55,390 --> 09:08:56,610
and I think can be used.

4702
09:08:57,730 --> 09:09:01,330
Remember, this is only a temporary solution if used as an option.

4703
09:09:03,430 --> 09:09:07,590
I think this is one box to check off in this win-win-win situation of allowing GCC,

4704
09:09:07,790 --> 09:09:12,570
their 80 truck minimum, to sustain a profitable business margin while they continue to pay their taxes,

4705
09:09:12,750 --> 09:09:16,690
their 12 cents per ton addition, plus doing a 10 million road improvement.

4706
09:09:17,350 --> 09:09:21,970
I support the permit and encourage you all to find a way to make this work for everyone involved.

4707
09:09:21,970 --> 09:09:25,830
I can't stress enough the value of the word everyone. Thank you

4708
09:09:27,130 --> 09:09:28,410
Thank you

4709
09:09:29,350 --> 09:09:31,470
Next is Dave Peters

4710
09:09:38,780 --> 09:09:46,040
My name is Dave Peters. I live in Durango. I'm retired and previously was an executive for a major energy company

4711
09:09:46,580 --> 09:09:50,860
My background is in engineering litigation and government affairs

4712
09:09:51,500 --> 09:09:55,700
I'm here in support of issuing the permit if I were a commissioner

4713
09:09:55,700 --> 09:10:00,300
I'd be looking for the following, have the regulatory requirements been met?

4714
09:10:01,220 --> 09:10:03,900
The Planning Department recommends approval, so yes.

4715
09:10:04,980 --> 09:10:07,720
Will the permit add financial burden to the county?

4716
09:10:08,640 --> 09:10:14,400
GCC is generously funding road construction and maintenance far beyond what's reasonable.

4717
09:10:15,440 --> 09:10:20,720
Conversely, permit denial will cost the county tens of millions of dollars a year in lost revenue.

4718
09:10:21,620 --> 09:10:24,080
Will citizens be adversely affected?

4719
09:10:24,080 --> 09:10:31,260
The majority of people strongly support retaining jobs in the county and ensuring economic growth.

4720
09:10:32,200 --> 09:10:37,900
People living near the mine are impacted, but through many meetings with them and GCC,

4721
09:10:38,620 --> 09:10:42,280
the majority are satisfied with this current plan.

4722
09:10:43,100 --> 09:10:44,660
Is there an environmental impact?

4723
09:10:45,720 --> 09:10:49,000
Trucks create dust in the past and will continue to do so.

4724
09:10:49,700 --> 09:10:53,060
However, there are dust mitigation measures in the permit.

4725
09:10:53,060 --> 09:10:56,180
The impact is definitely not overly significant.

4726
09:10:57,160 --> 09:11:01,280
I've done significant permitting in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming.

4727
09:11:02,120 --> 09:11:08,260
La Plata County's permit process is by far the most restrictive cumbersome and lengthy I have seen.

4728
09:11:09,240 --> 09:11:19,520
One other major measure that there is a problem is the fact that there are more by now more than 1,300 pages of documents with this permit.

4729
09:11:19,520 --> 09:11:24,400
the initial EIA for the Keystone Pipeline was just over 3,000 pages.

4730
09:11:25,000 --> 09:11:30,620
The Planning Department needs help to refine the system, and it will take an independent party to help.

4731
09:11:31,260 --> 09:11:34,780
There are resources available at the state level.

4732
09:11:35,880 --> 09:11:40,960
If this permit is not approved, there will be several things that will be uncertain,

4733
09:11:41,340 --> 09:11:45,560
but here are a few things that are certain.

4734
09:11:46,620 --> 09:11:50,480
Commissioners who vote against the permit will not be in office much longer.

4735
09:11:50,740 --> 09:11:52,020
The citizens will see to that.

4736
09:11:52,620 --> 09:11:58,960
There will be a request to have the State Attorney General's office investigate the commissioners in the Planning Department.

4737
09:11:59,600 --> 09:12:02,960
There are several irregularities and clear conflicts of interest.

4738
09:12:04,020 --> 09:12:09,260
A group of citizens will file lawsuits against the county and individual commissioners.

4739
09:12:09,720 --> 09:12:12,260
I would just love to sit in on the depositions.

4740
09:12:12,260 --> 09:12:19,580
So do the right thing and approve the permit. We really don't want a big fight. Thank you for your time.

4741
09:12:24,020 --> 09:12:29,960
Kayla Patterson and then Wade Wymore and Milo Gonzalez after that.

4742
09:12:33,880 --> 09:12:38,800
Kayla Patterson, 43 bookside trail, Bayfield, Colorado, 81122.

4743
09:12:39,740 --> 09:12:45,380
First I would like to thank the county staff, planning commission, GCC and everybody else who had a part in putting this together.

4744
09:12:46,300 --> 09:12:54,460
showing that local government and private industries can be effective in working together to resolve concerns and issues while still maintaining the core of our planning codes.

4745
09:12:56,340 --> 09:13:03,840
I would also like to point out that it has only been mentioned a few times that 1,500 families heat their home with coal from GCC King II.

4746
09:13:04,760 --> 09:13:09,260
As a kid, I was dependent on coal from King Coal I to heat my family's home.

4747
09:13:09,260 --> 09:13:15,420
This is important to me and our community because coal is an effective, affordable and

4748
09:13:15,420 --> 09:13:18,000
maintainable way to provide heat during our long winter months.

4749
09:13:18,960 --> 09:13:23,340
I would like to reiterate there should be a simple decision based on the strong work

4750
09:13:23,340 --> 09:13:28,880
done by GCC and the county staff who have recommended approval to the requested land

4751
09:13:28,880 --> 09:13:29,340
use permit.

4752
09:13:30,160 --> 09:13:34,140
It is apparent that the approval of the Class 2 permit will benefit the neighbors,

4753
09:13:34,140 --> 09:13:41,240
the county and GCC because it also gives everyone involved an opportunity to make sure that the

4754
09:13:41,240 --> 09:13:48,300
mitigations that have been mentioned multiple times need to happen and that the concerns will

4755
09:13:48,300 --> 09:13:53,880
be dealt with. If I was your county commissioner I would feel confident in approving the

4756
09:13:53,880 --> 09:14:00,460
class two land use permit. To not approve this permit is a vote of no confidence in

4757
09:14:00,460 --> 09:14:04,980
the county planning commission and the county planning department and that the mitigations

4758
09:14:04,980 --> 09:14:10,080
of GCC is more than willing to comply with. The commissioner should vote to accept the

4759
09:14:10,080 --> 09:14:14,540
county recommendations to vote to approve the class two land use permit and let the

4760
09:14:14,540 --> 09:14:16,260
work on the road begin. Thank you.

4761
09:14:18,930 --> 09:14:19,450
Thank you.

4762
09:14:24,690 --> 09:14:31,130
My name is Wade Weymour, 918 East Oak Drive, Bayfield, Colorado. I want to state up

4763
09:14:31,130 --> 09:14:35,670
This is my personal opinions, not the views of GCC while I'm speaking up here in front.

4764
09:14:37,010 --> 09:14:43,350
One comment I want to make, and every time I hear it from the opposition on foreign company comments,

4765
09:14:43,850 --> 09:14:47,750
it's a stick in my side. I'm sure if we were to take a poll of hands right now,

4766
09:14:48,130 --> 09:14:51,570
there's a bunch of people here who drove Subaru's and Toyota's to this outfit,

4767
09:14:52,390 --> 09:14:59,050
foreign companies employing U.S. citizens on this soil, just as GCC is doing.

4768
09:14:59,050 --> 09:14:59,390
Thank you very much for joining us.

4769
09:15:00,000 --> 09:15:08,340
As for the character of the county, I'm a history buff. And if I'm not mistaken, Durango

4770
09:15:08,340 --> 09:15:17,920
come about in 1880 via a coal-trained company supporting the mines in Silverton. And I feel

4771
09:15:17,920 --> 09:15:22,880
that my job is not to change the character of the county, but to sustain and retain the

4772
09:15:22,880 --> 09:15:29,440
character of the county. As for comments on property values, I don't know about

4773
09:15:29,440 --> 09:15:36,800
in the town, inside the city limits of Durango. I purchased a home seven years ago. Estimated

4774
09:15:36,800 --> 09:15:42,700
value of a little over three. I can guarantee you right now I can't sell it for maybe $290

4775
09:15:42,700 --> 09:15:47,740
because of gas and oil and industry leaving the county. And I don't think it's going

4776
09:15:47,740 --> 09:15:59,420
to benefit the property values if we cut out another industry. Personally, like I

4777
09:15:59,420 --> 09:16:07,660
north of 160 where the speed limits are 45 and 55 with rumble strips. I can

4778
09:16:07,660 --> 09:16:11,160
listen to those trucks. I do have a little sound barrier. I have a little hill

4779
09:16:11,160 --> 09:16:17,620
between me and that road and the only difference is it's not a gravel road. So

4780
09:16:17,620 --> 09:16:22,900
if GCC is giving the opportunity and this passes, put the asphalt in, these

4781
09:16:22,900 --> 09:16:27,480
trucks are going to maintain the speed limit of 10. Thank you. You can

4782
09:16:27,480 --> 09:16:30,580
already I mean you hit a school zone and you're doing 15 you know how slow that

4783
09:16:30,580 --> 09:16:37,480
is these trucks are doing slower than the school zone that's about it I

4784
09:16:37,940 --> 09:16:42,740
appreciate your time I can guarantee you county staff is not paid enough thank

4785
09:16:44,370 --> 09:16:54,190
you Milo and then Chris Dorn camp and then Allen Allen Crawford Milo

4786
09:16:57,360 --> 09:16:57,720
Gonzales

4787
09:16:57,720 --> 09:17:00,820
us 505 Hickory Ridge Bayfield, Colorado.

4788
09:17:03,380 --> 09:17:05,860
My name is Miles Gonzalez. I work for GCC and

4789
09:17:05,860 --> 09:17:09,820
I can speak to my experience from other minds. I can tell you how lucky we are to have the

4790
09:17:09,820 --> 09:17:13,620
company of this caliber here. One that cares for its employees, the community, the neighbors

4791
09:17:13,620 --> 09:17:17,920
and its stakeholders. But first I would thank you for being here today. I would thank the

4792
09:17:17,920 --> 09:17:21,460
county staff for all their hard work. I thank the planning commission and I thank

4793
09:17:21,460 --> 09:17:26,380
GCC for an enormous amount of concessions they are agreeing to in order to earn

4794
09:17:26,380 --> 09:17:29,560
the recommended approval of permits from those previously mentioned.

4795
09:17:30,300 --> 09:17:31,100
I live here.

4796
09:17:31,260 --> 09:17:32,620
I live here with my wife and children.

4797
09:17:32,940 --> 09:17:36,080
Many of the hardworking people I work with also live here with their families.

4798
09:17:37,180 --> 09:17:40,220
That road is better today than when I first started working thanks to the mine's efforts.

4799
09:17:41,240 --> 09:17:43,020
Your staff has worked hard and so has the mine.

4800
09:17:43,640 --> 09:17:46,420
I think they both have done a good job of putting together a plan that tries to

4801
09:17:46,420 --> 09:17:48,620
make a challenging situation as best as possible.

4802
09:17:49,600 --> 09:17:53,420
You have a recommendation to approve this permit from your plan of staff and from

4803
09:17:53,420 --> 09:17:57,640
the planning commission and now with my testimony as a family man trying to

4804
09:17:57,640 --> 09:18:01,660
provide for his family and speaking for a hundred other minors who couldn't be

4805
09:18:01,660 --> 09:18:04,520
here not because they're working or they just don't feel comfortable speaking.

4806
09:18:05,560 --> 09:18:08,980
We also would recommend that you approve the Class 2 permit. Thanks.

4807
09:18:11,700 --> 09:18:11,960
Thank

4808
09:18:11,960 --> 09:18:13,800
you. Chris?

4809
09:18:43,760 --> 09:18:47,840
Hello my name is Chris Doran Camp. I live at 22343 County Road D.

4810
09:18:47,860 --> 09:18:52,300
Point 6 in Cortez, Colorado. I was born and raised in Colorado. I'm the

4811
09:18:52,300 --> 09:18:55,200
undergone my superintendent, King Tew, I mean,

4812
09:18:55,340 --> 09:18:59,200
so here in support of GCC Energy and their application

4813
09:18:59,200 --> 09:19:00,460
for a class two permit.

4814
09:19:02,640 --> 09:19:03,160
Excuse me.

4815
09:19:03,700 --> 09:19:05,340
Obviously the noise and dust are two

4816
09:19:05,340 --> 09:19:06,640
of the major sticking points.

4817
09:19:07,500 --> 09:19:09,660
I'd like to again point out that the best solution

4818
09:19:09,660 --> 09:19:11,880
is to move forward with the Road and Permanent Agreement

4819
09:19:12,460 --> 09:19:14,980
and pave in front of the two most impacted neighbors.

4820
09:19:16,440 --> 09:19:18,980
There's been mention of GCC safety program.

4821
09:19:19,300 --> 09:19:21,260
One of the core philosophies of this program

4822
09:19:21,260 --> 09:19:26,820
is behavioral safety. This by nature extends to all the facets of our life

4823
09:19:26,820 --> 09:19:32,500
including our travels in and out of the canyon. Another point to bring up is that

4824
09:19:32,500 --> 09:19:38,260
employed at the mine are 19 first responders, one EMT and one ex-paramedic.

4825
09:19:39,280 --> 09:19:43,960
All of our foremen's have a mandatory 10 hours first day train and all of our

4826
09:19:43,960 --> 09:19:49,740
employees undergo weekly safety training. We even recently responded to a

4827
09:19:49,740 --> 09:19:53,960
car wreck on County Road 120 that did not involve the mine.

4828
09:19:54,640 --> 09:19:55,840
We were the first on scene.

4829
09:19:59,220 --> 09:20:01,260
In short, if you're going to have traffic go by,

4830
09:20:01,420 --> 09:20:02,820
we are probably the ones that you want.

4831
09:20:03,480 --> 09:20:05,060
There are roughly 100 more people

4832
09:20:05,060 --> 09:20:07,340
that would be happy to say the same thing if necessary.

4833
09:20:07,960 --> 09:20:08,540
Thank you all.

4834
09:20:10,540 --> 09:20:11,280
Thank you.

4835
09:20:14,520 --> 09:20:20,140
Alan Crawford and then Alan Harper is on deck.

4836
09:20:23,400 --> 09:20:24,680
My name's Alan Crawford.

4837
09:20:25,100 --> 09:20:28,160
I live at 1081 County Road 121.

4838
09:20:28,160 --> 09:20:32,560
in Hesperus. I have been a permanent resident all my life.

4839
09:20:34,910 --> 09:20:36,610
Hagoche has always had coal mines

4840
09:20:36,610 --> 09:20:45,990
in it. It was a coal mining country, and if people moved in here what not wanting coal

4841
09:20:45,990 --> 09:20:51,150
mines, I don't see why they came to this area. And with GCC Energy being the last coal

4842
09:20:51,150 --> 09:20:56,970
mine in the area, it's important coal for the local people and several residents

4843
09:20:56,970 --> 09:21:05,130
to heater houses and stuff, supply coal for the train for Al Harper. I think that

4844
09:21:05,130 --> 09:21:08,770
if you shut this mine down you're putting several hundred people out of

4845
09:21:08,770 --> 09:21:16,890
work in an area that has no other means of support and I don't know why it

4846
09:21:16,890 --> 09:21:22,970
would be beneficial to this county or any part of it to shut this mine down.

4847
09:21:27,060 --> 09:21:27,720
I

4848
09:21:27,720 --> 09:21:29,340
I have a small construction company.

4849
09:21:29,520 --> 09:21:33,420
GCC has gave me quite a bit of work, helped me out quite a bit.

4850
09:21:34,360 --> 09:21:35,720
And for that, I'm appreciative.

4851
09:21:36,400 --> 09:21:39,200
And I believe that GCC Energy has been over backwards

4852
09:21:39,200 --> 09:21:42,820
to do more than their fair share to try to keep and maintain

4853
09:21:42,820 --> 09:21:45,540
the roads and help the public up there.

4854
09:21:46,260 --> 09:21:47,700
That's about all I've got to say.

4855
09:21:47,840 --> 09:21:48,180
Thank you.

4856
09:21:49,080 --> 09:21:49,880
Thank you.

4857
09:21:54,980 --> 09:21:56,100
Alan Harper.

4858
09:21:57,560 --> 09:21:59,040
And then Travis Bolliger.

4859
09:22:03,080 --> 09:22:03,980
I'm Al Harper.

4860
09:22:03,980 --> 09:22:08,240
I'm the owner of the railroad, I live at 265 County Road 204.

4861
09:22:09,900 --> 09:22:12,580
As everybody knows, I'm the railroad guy.

4862
09:22:14,500 --> 09:22:19,600
I think we all should have bought stock and energy drinks with all the vetting that's

4863
09:22:19,600 --> 09:22:22,240
been going on for the last two months on this issue.

4864
09:22:22,820 --> 09:22:27,380
I couldn't be prouder of how government works, how the staff has worked, the negotiations,

4865
09:22:27,620 --> 09:22:28,260
the give-and-take.

4866
09:22:28,960 --> 09:22:30,280
It has really been important.

4867
09:22:32,780 --> 09:22:36,680
Our company has 240 full and part-time employees.

4868
09:22:37,440 --> 09:22:38,800
I've given these facts before.

4869
09:22:40,060 --> 09:22:42,820
If we didn't have the coal here, we'd have to go out of state.

4870
09:22:43,560 --> 09:22:48,480
It's estimated to be cost between $300,000 and $500,000 for us to do that.

4871
09:22:48,980 --> 09:22:50,760
The only way we could do that is raise tickets.

4872
09:22:51,460 --> 09:22:56,640
If we raise the price of tickets, it's estimated it could cost us as much as 10% ridership

4873
09:22:56,640 --> 09:23:03,560
because we're already the most expensive tourist railroad due to the fact of the nature of our lines through the wilderness.

4874
09:23:04,800 --> 09:23:11,080
10% ridership would cost this community about $17 million of economic impact.

4875
09:23:11,580 --> 09:23:17,240
So it's critical that we have this coal. It's a good coal, low sulfur coal, local source.

4876
09:23:17,880 --> 09:23:20,340
So from the railroad's perspective, it's very important.

4877
09:23:20,960 --> 09:23:26,080
From a community and perspective, there's another 300 jobs from what I hear from testimony

4878
09:23:26,080 --> 09:23:29,620
that would be directly impacted, plus many more indirectly.

4879
09:23:31,580 --> 09:23:34,740
Hard to believe it's my 19th season with Railroad.

4880
09:23:35,540 --> 09:23:38,380
I don't know where the time go. I was just a young kid when I bought it.

4881
09:23:39,820 --> 09:23:43,180
But one thing I found out about Durango is we're all family.

4882
09:23:44,020 --> 09:23:47,220
This is a community of family. We're all dependent on each other.

4883
09:23:47,220 --> 09:23:51,260
In fact, I really look at those communities. We're all railroaders.

4884
09:23:51,820 --> 09:23:55,220
We're all realtors. We're all lawyers. We're all farmers and ranchers.

4885
09:23:55,600 --> 09:24:01,020
And we're all miners. It's important when it affects one, it affects us all.

4886
09:24:01,640 --> 09:24:07,160
And it's so critical that we keep this mind going and operating

4887
09:24:07,160 --> 09:24:12,860
and that we do what we can for those people who are negatively affected.

4888
09:24:13,220 --> 09:24:15,280
And I think the county has made that effort.

4889
09:24:15,280 --> 09:24:24,640
So I appreciate the effort, I appreciate the staff, the negotiation, and the railroad is 100% in support of keeping this mine operating.

4890
09:24:25,220 --> 09:24:25,520
Thank you.

4891
09:24:25,760 --> 09:24:26,100
Thank you.

4892
09:24:26,820 --> 09:24:27,660
Thank you.

4893
09:24:28,080 --> 09:24:28,780
Travis Oligar?

4894
09:24:31,310 --> 09:24:34,670
And then, and then Junie Chambers?

4895
09:24:37,170 --> 09:24:41,550
Travis Oligar, 620 Sandridge Court, Hesperus, Colorado.

4896
09:24:43,630 --> 09:24:47,030
My house is the closest house to the mine.

4897
09:24:47,030 --> 09:24:56,590
I have been to more of these meetings than I can even remember, but as I've watched things develop,

4898
09:24:57,010 --> 09:25:04,050
it reminds me of when my neighbors went to GCC with complaints and problems.

4899
09:25:05,010 --> 09:25:11,670
They had trucks that would, as they back up, the horns would go off, and you could hear those at night.

4900
09:25:11,670 --> 09:25:17,330
and we went to them and we said can you please do something about this they

4901
09:25:17,330 --> 09:25:22,550
changed to a light system instead of horns and the problem went away they

4902
09:25:22,550 --> 09:25:29,370
had a big exhaust fan that that was in the dead of the night when things were

4903
09:25:29,370 --> 09:25:34,650
really quiet and it's quiet out there you could hear the exhaust fan so we

4904
09:25:34,650 --> 09:25:39,010
went to them and we asked them about it and I don't know what it cost them

4905
09:25:39,010 --> 09:25:46,150
But they put a muffler on it and the problem went away and as I watched these meetings and the give

4906
09:25:46,150 --> 09:25:48,230
the give and the take

4907
09:25:49,470 --> 09:25:55,410
You know that it reminds me of those meetings that we had in our homes where

4908
09:25:55,930 --> 09:26:01,350
They were more than happy to go along and I believe that they have met every

4909
09:26:03,630 --> 09:26:08,470
everything that has been put in front of them by staff.

4910
09:26:08,770 --> 09:26:13,290
I think staff has done a good job, and I'm here in support of the mine.

4911
09:26:13,570 --> 09:26:14,050
Thank you.

4912
09:26:16,030 --> 09:26:16,770
Thank you.

4913
09:26:17,990 --> 09:26:19,190
Jenny Chambers.

4914
09:26:24,450 --> 09:26:24,970
Okay.

4915
09:26:25,110 --> 09:26:28,310
Jenny Chambers, 49 Ohford Drive, Durango, Colorado.

4916
09:26:29,150 --> 09:26:32,690
I gave a long testimony back the last time we did this.

4917
09:26:32,690 --> 09:26:40,970
And my big support of the GCC is all the tourism industry that's going to be affected.

4918
09:26:41,270 --> 09:26:42,190
It's not just the railroad.

4919
09:26:42,870 --> 09:26:43,810
It's the restaurants.

4920
09:26:44,070 --> 09:26:44,630
It's the galleries.

4921
09:26:44,930 --> 09:26:45,590
It's the hotels.

4922
09:26:45,750 --> 09:26:49,130
I was the marketing director for a local hotel downtown for five years,

4923
09:26:49,250 --> 09:26:51,930
and I can tell you right now that all of our business came from the railroad.

4924
09:26:53,030 --> 09:26:56,410
So when you're thinking about if you are not going to vote for this mine,

4925
09:26:56,590 --> 09:26:59,710
think about all these kids, these high school kids, these college kids,

4926
09:26:59,830 --> 09:27:01,610
all of these people that work in tourism.

4927
09:27:01,610 --> 09:27:04,230
I mean, it is so much more than just the mine and the train.

4928
09:27:04,810 --> 09:27:08,850
There's thousands and thousands of people that are going to be affected very seriously

4929
09:27:08,850 --> 09:27:09,850
and their families.

4930
09:27:10,290 --> 09:27:12,630
And housing prices are already so high here.

4931
09:27:12,990 --> 09:27:15,410
To put more people out of work, where do you think they're going to live?

4932
09:27:15,510 --> 09:27:18,050
We're going to have more panhandlers than homeless people on the street.

4933
09:27:18,510 --> 09:27:19,290
And I mean that.

4934
09:27:20,770 --> 09:27:25,210
And another thing, I just came from the grocery store before this hearing, and I can't

4935
09:27:25,210 --> 09:27:29,270
tell you how many people inside City Market that work there that use coal to keep

4936
09:27:29,270 --> 09:27:29,910
their house warm.

4937
09:27:29,910 --> 09:27:33,990
and they're very concerned so there you know there you go there's another

4938
09:27:33,990 --> 09:27:40,990
industry city market the grocery stores so in my personal opinion if you do not

4939
09:27:40,990 --> 09:27:44,890
vote in favor of this permit then you might as well hang assigned at every

4940
09:27:44,890 --> 09:27:48,770
entrance to La Plata County every road that says La Plata County is closed for

4941
09:27:48,770 --> 09:27:53,170
business and this will hit nationwide and international news and it will

4942
09:27:53,170 --> 09:27:57,010
affect this entire Southwest region of Colorado thank you

4943
09:27:57,010 --> 09:27:58,610
Thank you.

4944
09:27:58,610 --> 09:27:59,270
Thank you.

4945
09:28:01,680 --> 09:28:04,100
Do we have any other public comment?

4946
09:28:07,870 --> 09:28:08,190
Thank you.

4947
09:28:08,690 --> 09:28:09,070
Come on up.

4948
09:28:17,340 --> 09:28:18,000
This is the commission.

4949
09:28:18,140 --> 09:28:19,060
My name is Tim Gallagher.

4950
09:28:19,160 --> 09:28:21,180
I live at 500 Sand Ridge Court.

4951
09:28:21,920 --> 09:28:25,440
A couple years ago, I drew the short straw at our POA meeting,

4952
09:28:25,440 --> 09:28:26,980
and they elected me the president.

4953
09:28:28,180 --> 09:28:31,580
With the mission to find out what's going on with this mind,

4954
09:28:31,880 --> 09:28:34,320
get involved, see how it affects the property owners out there.

4955
09:28:34,960 --> 09:28:37,660
I was asked to serve on the citizen's advisory panel.

4956
09:28:37,660 --> 09:28:44,940
as a matter of duty to the citizens and the people I represent, I got on that committee.

4957
09:28:45,280 --> 09:28:47,960
Shortly thereafter, I was asked to be the chairman of that.

4958
09:28:48,580 --> 09:28:52,880
And I was given the responsibility to bring reasonable recommendations to the county.

4959
09:28:53,640 --> 09:28:58,100
In that process, our mission was to gather as much information as we possibly could

4960
09:28:58,100 --> 09:29:03,980
about every single aspect of this, including subsidence, vibration, noise, traffic,

4961
09:29:04,140 --> 09:29:05,180
and all the other issues.

4962
09:29:05,180 --> 09:29:11,120
With the resources we had, we feel we did an excellent job of bringing forth reasonable

4963
09:29:11,620 --> 09:29:13,540
recommendations to the county.

4964
09:29:14,180 --> 09:29:20,340
It was never our intention to get involved with the details of the negotiations on exactly

4965
09:29:20,340 --> 09:29:26,240
how many trucks per day or the decibel level or any of those sorts of things, even the

4966
09:29:26,240 --> 09:29:27,120
specific route.

4967
09:29:27,840 --> 09:29:32,180
We left those details of negotiations to county staff and GCC.

4968
09:29:32,180 --> 09:29:37,840
And as I sat back and watched that go on, I was very impressed with, like was mentioned

4969
09:29:37,840 --> 09:29:43,840
earlier, the give and take on both sides to get to a reasonable point that both sides

4970
09:29:43,840 --> 09:29:45,640
could agree and we bring this forward.

4971
09:29:47,040 --> 09:29:51,920
Then, after we brought all this out, we took it to the citizens of the area for their

4972
09:29:51,920 --> 09:29:52,640
final comments.

4973
09:29:52,860 --> 09:29:55,240
Is this what you want in our recommendations?

4974
09:29:56,300 --> 09:29:56,620
Yes.

4975
09:29:56,900 --> 09:29:59,400
And those were the recommendations that were presented to you.

4976
09:30:00,000 --> 09:30:04,440
Respectfully request that you not disregard those recommendations.

4977
09:30:05,040 --> 09:30:16,320
It is, however, a little disconcerting to several of us that our newest neighbor has brought a big legal team in to try to change the will of the people.

4978
09:30:17,000 --> 09:30:25,080
And with a veiled threat of litigation, if they don't get their way, I submit to you that there will be greater challenges.

4979
09:30:25,080 --> 09:30:31,380
If the will of the people, the majority of the people in Hegelch is disregarded, yes, ma'am.

4980
09:30:31,520 --> 09:30:40,700
If the will of the people is disregarded, and then the recommendations from staff and the Planning Commission are not accepted.

4981
09:30:41,260 --> 09:30:52,940
So respectfully request that you accept the recommendations of the County staff, the County Planning Commission, approve this Class II land use permit so we can all get back to work.

4982
09:30:52,940 --> 09:30:54,320
Thank you very much.

4983
09:30:55,660 --> 09:30:56,500
Thank you.

4984
09:30:56,860 --> 09:30:58,020
Excuse me.

4985
09:30:58,100 --> 09:30:59,760
Could I ask Mr. Gallagher a question?

4986
09:31:00,280 --> 09:31:00,480
Yes.

4987
09:31:01,060 --> 09:31:04,700
Just, there's some ambiguity in your statement.

4988
09:31:04,940 --> 09:31:08,200
Our newest big neighbor or something like that.

4989
09:31:08,200 --> 09:31:09,660
Are you referring to GCC or?

4990
09:31:10,100 --> 09:31:10,500
No, ma'am.

4991
09:31:10,720 --> 09:31:10,980
Okay.

4992
09:31:11,300 --> 09:31:11,580
No, ma'am.

4993
09:31:11,920 --> 09:31:12,340
Thank you.

4994
09:31:12,600 --> 09:31:12,900
Yes, ma'am.

4995
09:31:15,770 --> 09:31:16,690
Charles Page.

4996
09:31:24,430 --> 09:31:29,610
Page 171, Glen Lane, Durango, Colorado, 813.

4997
09:31:31,820 --> 09:31:32,280
Excuse me.

4998
09:31:41,940 --> 09:31:43,760
You're not the first.

4999
09:31:46,140 --> 09:31:47,780
Usually, I'm too loud.

5000
09:31:53,540 --> 09:31:54,500
Pasting one, two, three.

5001
09:31:57,070 --> 09:31:59,770
Charles Page, 171, Glenn Lane,

5002
09:32:00,650 --> 09:32:03,190
Durango, Colorado, 8131.

5003
09:32:04,230 --> 09:32:07,670
I use the matte black, so usually it's 302.

5004
09:32:08,550 --> 09:32:13,070
One thing that I wanted to bring up that I haven't heard yet

5005
09:32:13,070 --> 09:32:15,510
was one of the arguments

5006
09:32:16,570 --> 09:32:28,210
about the mine that has been brought up before is that a lot of the drivers and a lot of

5007
09:32:28,210 --> 09:32:31,690
the workers at the mine do not live in La Plata County.

5008
09:32:31,950 --> 09:32:34,830
They live in New Mexico.

5009
09:32:34,830 --> 09:32:45,270
up. But as far as I'm concerned, they are our neighbors too. And the whole region here

5010
09:32:45,930 --> 09:32:56,770
is important. And we need to support this mine, to support Farmington, Shiprock, Hesperus,

5011
09:32:57,270 --> 09:33:02,570
the whole region. And I think that's important not to forget. Thank you.

5012
09:33:04,410 --> 09:33:05,650
Thank you.

5013
09:33:07,210 --> 09:33:10,770
Is there anyone else that would wish to make public comment this evening?

5014
09:33:12,410 --> 09:33:13,030
Yes.

5015
09:33:14,690 --> 09:33:18,030
You can speak and then fill it out afterwards.

5016
09:33:19,330 --> 09:33:22,770
Kathleen Adams, 603 East 9th Street,

5017
09:33:23,370 --> 09:33:23,990
here in Durango.

5018
09:33:25,730 --> 09:33:30,630
I don't think there's anything I can say that you haven't already heard as far as the details,

5019
09:33:30,630 --> 09:33:37,110
the decisions, the who's asking for what.

5020
09:33:38,210 --> 09:33:44,650
I have been involved with this as a friend of the McCuse and the Matthias family.

5021
09:33:45,490 --> 09:33:53,070
And the whole thing was theoretical to me until I went out and sat on the McCuse porch for about an hour

5022
09:33:53,070 --> 09:34:02,170
and became speechless about the effect of the well-being for these families that I've

5023
09:34:02,170 --> 09:34:09,310
visited based on the amount of traffic and the noncompliance that I've heard about.

5024
09:34:09,990 --> 09:34:15,190
I have not been able to keep up with the details of the day.

5025
09:34:16,030 --> 09:34:20,750
And my understanding is that no one is asking that the mind be shut down,

5026
09:34:20,750 --> 09:34:25,810
but I feel like the compliance issue is extremely important

5027
09:34:25,810 --> 09:34:28,690
and that's followed to the T.

5028
09:34:29,270 --> 09:34:32,050
I understand that's been a problem over the last few years

5029
09:34:32,050 --> 09:34:35,910
and I don't think that shutting the mind down

5030
09:34:35,910 --> 09:34:37,490
is what anybody is asking for.

5031
09:34:37,730 --> 09:34:38,670
I believe that's right.

5032
09:34:39,570 --> 09:34:41,630
So compliance is enormous

5033
09:34:41,630 --> 09:34:46,850
and empathy also enormous.

5034
09:34:47,530 --> 09:34:48,150
Thank you.

5035
09:34:48,150 --> 09:34:49,570
Thank you.

5036
09:34:49,990 --> 09:34:50,630
Thank you.

5037
09:35:04,980 --> 09:35:09,240
Huck Morris, 3402 Monterey Circle, Farmington, New Mexico.

5038
09:35:10,180 --> 09:35:15,580
I'm here in support of the permit for GCC Energy.

5039
09:35:16,620 --> 09:35:24,180
I am the terminal manager for U.S. Transport, one of the trucking companies that haul coal

5040
09:35:24,180 --> 09:35:26,040
out of King Cove, too.

5041
09:35:28,440 --> 09:35:37,060
GCC and the trucking companies have made every effort to abide by the rules that have been

5042
09:35:37,060 --> 09:35:42,080
laid down on County Road 120.

5043
09:35:43,720 --> 09:35:50,980
U.S. transport has made an effort to update our fleet, bring in newer and newer trucks,

5044
09:35:50,980 --> 09:36:01,350
quieter trucks, quieter trailers, and where that is an ongoing thing that we're doing

5045
09:36:01,350 --> 09:36:01,750
right now.

5046
09:36:05,470 --> 09:36:12,350
GCC is in contact with the trucking companies on a daily basis, making sure that our drivers

5047
09:36:12,350 --> 09:36:16,170
are doing what they're supposed to, making sure our trucks are doing right.

5048
09:36:16,550 --> 09:36:17,450
The trailers are okay.

5049
09:36:18,070 --> 09:36:21,250
If there's a problem, they will call us and we take care of it.

5050
09:36:21,250 --> 09:36:25,950
We want to abide by everything that GCC wants and the county.

5051
09:36:28,560 --> 09:36:33,860
U.S. transport employees 58 drivers in farm-farmutin.

5052
09:36:34,060 --> 09:36:39,900
Not all of them do coal, but I would say 80% of them haul coal out.

5053
09:36:41,540 --> 09:36:46,560
And then we have 13 support staff in farmutin in the office, the shop.

5054
09:36:46,560 --> 09:36:47,640
If

5055
09:36:50,740 --> 09:36:56,860
GCC doesn't receive this permit and we have to cut back on everything we're

5056
09:36:56,860 --> 09:37:03,620
going to start laying people off that not only affects the drivers but also their

5057
09:37:03,620 --> 09:37:10,180
families the economy and farming to the economy and in Durango especially

5058
09:37:16,450 --> 09:37:16,710
with

5059
09:37:16,710 --> 09:37:23,450
the with the oil and gas the way it is unemployment is so high in this area if

5060
09:37:23,450 --> 09:37:25,890
If we have to lay people off, I don't know what we're going to do.

5061
09:37:27,310 --> 09:37:32,270
So I would recommend to the commissioners, please approve this permit.

5062
09:37:32,990 --> 09:37:33,370
Thank you.

5063
09:37:34,610 --> 09:37:37,550
Mr. Morris, I have a couple of questions, Mr. Chair, if I may.

5064
09:37:37,790 --> 09:37:38,010
Yes.

5065
09:37:38,370 --> 09:37:38,590
Yes.

5066
09:37:39,110 --> 09:37:44,910
I did ask a question earlier about the truck drivers and how many hours a day they're

5067
09:37:44,910 --> 09:37:45,470
on shift.

5068
09:37:45,910 --> 09:37:48,290
And if you could fill us in on some of the details.

5069
09:37:48,590 --> 09:37:51,170
The drivers are allowed to work 14 hours.

5070
09:37:51,170 --> 09:37:54,330
Drive 11 hours and 3 hours on duty.

5071
09:37:54,970 --> 09:37:59,690
That is, the on-duty status is considered loading and unloading.

5072
09:38:00,890 --> 09:38:05,110
So once they're, and all of our trucks have electronic logs,

5073
09:38:05,870 --> 09:38:08,250
plus they have cameras in the trucks.

5074
09:38:09,230 --> 09:38:12,130
One facing out, one facing the driver,

5075
09:38:13,050 --> 09:38:17,330
so that we can try to change their behavior.

5076
09:38:17,910 --> 09:38:20,390
If there's something wrong, then we can pull them in and say,

5077
09:38:20,390 --> 09:38:23,910
They look at this video, this is what you did, did wrong.

5078
09:38:24,050 --> 09:38:24,870
You need to watch that.

5079
09:38:27,050 --> 09:38:31,630
Speeding, using your phone, anything like that.

5080
09:38:33,210 --> 09:38:33,770
Thanks.

5081
09:38:33,930 --> 09:38:34,830
That's very helpful.

5082
09:38:35,090 --> 09:38:38,950
You also mentioned quieter trucks and quieter trailers.

5083
09:38:39,210 --> 09:38:41,650
Can you give some examples of those?

5084
09:38:41,690 --> 09:38:45,330
We've purchased, just this last year,

5085
09:38:45,510 --> 09:38:48,750
we've purchased close to 30 brand new trucks.

5086
09:38:49,210 --> 09:38:52,310
I don't know if you've seen them when you were up there on County Road 120.

5087
09:38:52,570 --> 09:38:57,890
They're the silver trucks, yeah, they're very nice.

5088
09:38:59,290 --> 09:39:04,350
And we are updating our fleet again this coming year.

5089
09:39:04,730 --> 09:39:09,310
We have some 2013s that we're going to get rid of and purchase new ones also.

5090
09:39:11,220 --> 09:39:15,720
And the trailers, we just purchased 10 brand new trailers just to get rid of the older

5091
09:39:15,720 --> 09:39:16,080
trailers.

5092
09:39:16,080 --> 09:39:21,480
The ones that are about to go out the door.

5093
09:39:23,660 --> 09:39:24,860
They bounce two months.

5094
09:39:25,380 --> 09:39:25,600
Yeah.

5095
09:39:27,980 --> 09:39:28,760
Thank you.

5096
09:39:29,060 --> 09:39:29,320
Thank you.

5097
09:39:35,340 --> 09:39:36,000
Anyone else?

5098
09:39:37,660 --> 09:39:41,320
Anyone else like to make a public comment?

5099
09:39:51,190 --> 09:39:52,650
We thought we'd be here all night.

5100
09:39:52,770 --> 09:39:53,410
Last call.

5101
09:39:57,900 --> 09:40:04,660
Mr. Chair, for the record, part of our break, I mentioned that there were two

5102
09:40:04,660 --> 09:40:11,700
23 comments received on the county's website and our public affairs officer

5103
09:40:11,700 --> 09:40:15,720
has looked at that I believe that one is duplicative and so there are actually

5104
09:40:15,720 --> 09:40:20,820
22 comments that will be made part of the record and again it can be viewed

5105
09:40:20,820 --> 09:40:26,540
online if people desire otherwise they will be printed out and made part of the

5106
09:40:26,540 --> 09:40:27,540
Thank you.

5107
09:40:36,650 --> 09:40:41,390
Is there any further business that we need to take care of at this time?

5108
09:40:47,200 --> 09:40:49,020
Guys, don't be mad at me.

5109
09:40:51,060 --> 09:40:53,140
During our break, I had more questions.

5110
09:40:54,020 --> 09:40:59,140
But I really think the thing is we only get one bite at this apple,

5111
09:40:59,520 --> 09:41:06,360
and I want to make sure that we don't make guesses at information or that kind of thing.

5112
09:41:06,360 --> 09:41:10,940
And during dinner, I was able to kind of look back

5113
09:41:10,940 --> 09:41:12,600
on my notes throughout the day and realize

5114
09:41:12,600 --> 09:41:14,860
there were a few things that were hanging

5115
09:41:14,860 --> 09:41:18,140
that I hadn't been able to wrap up.

5116
09:41:20,400 --> 09:41:23,440
So early on, one of the first things we talked about

5117
09:41:23,440 --> 09:41:27,380
was the appropriate sound level.

5118
09:41:28,180 --> 09:41:30,580
And trying to figure that out, I'd

5119
09:41:30,580 --> 09:41:42,860
expressed concerns that that 86 decibel criterion seemed a little uncontrolled. Then I found

5120
09:41:42,860 --> 09:41:51,640
out from the GCC sound guy that that's an instantaneous measure of sound. And one of

5121
09:41:51,640 --> 09:41:55,660
the things that I think is important in the impacts isn't about the instantaneous sound,

5122
09:41:55,680 --> 09:42:00,600
but some kind of measure of continuity of sound. And in the reports that we read

5123
09:42:00,600 --> 09:42:10,320
it talked about background noise in rural settings and the HUD standard is 55 at night

5124
09:42:10,320 --> 09:42:14,180
and 50 during the day or something like that, but it seemed like the HUD standard was something

5125
09:42:14,180 --> 09:42:21,200
that whether someone wants to believe that's an appropriate standard for a rural area

5126
09:42:21,200 --> 09:42:26,560
versus an urban area, I'm certainly willing to hear that, but it at least seems to

5127
09:42:26,560 --> 09:42:32,440
measure the sound, try to capture the overall sound as opposed to instantaneous sound.

5128
09:42:33,040 --> 09:42:41,160
And so that being said, I think first of all, I don't know if staff ever considered, first

5129
09:42:41,160 --> 09:42:43,920
I'll ask that, did you ever consider anything other than the 86?

5130
09:42:44,400 --> 09:42:49,700
And I understand that's a state rule for a maximum sound emitted, say, by a vehicle.

5131
09:42:49,700 --> 09:42:58,620
but what about from the perspective of trying to capture not just a measure of instantaneous noise,

5132
09:42:58,780 --> 09:43:02,920
but a measure of overall sound that traffic makes?

5133
09:43:03,800 --> 09:43:07,700
Maria with the Planning Department. So you're entirely correct.

5134
09:43:08,140 --> 09:43:12,460
We've drawn upon state statute as a reference point to inform our compatibility standards.

5135
09:43:13,040 --> 09:43:17,280
As I mentioned earlier, these are more qualitative regulations that we work with.

5136
09:43:17,280 --> 09:43:23,480
So we look for data where we can find it, and state statute does indicate 86 is the

5137
09:43:23,480 --> 09:43:27,100
maximum emission, noise level emission, from a vehicle.

5138
09:43:27,560 --> 09:43:29,100
So that's where we've arrived at our number.

5139
09:43:29,720 --> 09:43:34,300
I think it's entirely within the board's discretion if you would like to entertain

5140
09:43:35,010 --> 09:43:35,900
a different number.

5141
09:43:36,040 --> 09:43:37,400
And that could be based on an average.

5142
09:43:37,900 --> 09:43:44,200
That is the day-night average that the GCC's wave engineering did model.

5143
09:43:44,200 --> 09:43:46,860
I believe that threshold was closer to 65.

5144
09:43:47,460 --> 09:43:52,420
And that would be a question that I would actually would like to hear from Wave Engineering

5145
09:43:52,420 --> 09:43:56,440
as to what would be an appropriate number if this is something that the Board chooses

5146
09:43:56,440 --> 09:43:59,600
to possibly complement the 86.

5147
09:43:59,780 --> 09:44:02,280
I don't think we need to get rid of that level of number.

5148
09:44:02,560 --> 09:44:08,760
It could be a different number if you want to refine that acute noise generation.

5149
09:44:08,760 --> 09:44:15,820
but also I would be curious to know what would be an appropriate average noise level.

5150
09:44:20,160 --> 09:44:21,920
So, Damien, are you going to say something?

5151
09:44:21,940 --> 09:44:23,160
Yeah, I just want to add one thing.

5152
09:44:23,300 --> 09:44:28,120
Daniel's correct, and the applicant's professional that deals with this

5153
09:44:28,120 --> 09:44:30,580
would probably be able to inform the board more clearly,

5154
09:44:31,300 --> 09:44:36,940
but at least my limited understanding is that the 86 is quite strict

5155
09:44:36,940 --> 09:44:42,200
because it is a moment in time and you're collecting the sound directly from the source

5156
09:44:42,200 --> 09:44:46,360
of the truck versus over a span of time where it's being averaged out.

5157
09:44:47,140 --> 09:44:53,920
So if your concern is both, you might include both an average and that exact point source,

5158
09:44:54,200 --> 09:44:56,240
but that's something that I agree with Daniel.

5159
09:44:56,240 --> 09:44:59,520
that we should probably hear more from the sound specialist.

5160
09:45:02,580 --> 09:45:08,760
Okay. I've forgotten what the Wave person's name is, but...

5161
09:45:09,120 --> 09:45:12,560
Would you like me to ask Mr. Kolkowski to come to the microphone?

5162
09:45:12,580 --> 09:45:17,040
Yes. If you could, please prepare to answer those questions. Thank you.

5163
09:45:27,270 --> 09:45:33,850
Jeff Kolkowski, Wave Engineering. Would you like me to just address those general comments, or do you have a specific question?

5164
09:45:33,850 --> 09:45:47,870
I think what Daniel summarized is kind of what's in my mind as well because 85 constantly might not violate that, but it could be annoying.

5165
09:45:48,330 --> 09:45:58,130
I know we're not talking about 85 decibels with respect to the trucks, but I still would like to have a little bit better understanding of how we might measure

5166
09:45:58,130 --> 09:46:05,790
kind of accumulative impact of sound as opposed to just measuring discrete instances?

5167
09:46:07,210 --> 09:46:14,090
Yes, the nice thing about the state statute level of 86 DBA for a single pass by 50 feet

5168
09:46:14,090 --> 09:46:16,050
is that it's easy to enforce.

5169
09:46:16,610 --> 09:46:19,110
Someone can go out with a relatively simple sound meter,

5170
09:46:19,790 --> 09:46:21,950
measure 50 feet from the center line of the road,

5171
09:46:22,250 --> 09:46:26,430
and measure how a lot of truck going by is, and do that for multiple trucks.

5172
09:46:26,430 --> 09:46:30,010
But you're right, that's just a single truck going by.

5173
09:46:30,310 --> 09:46:35,930
It doesn't give you any idea of the effect of multiple trucks going by over the course of 24 hours.

5174
09:46:36,370 --> 09:46:41,670
And that's why we used the 24-hour average, the day-night average sound level,

5175
09:46:42,070 --> 09:46:45,450
to assess the impact on the residents along the road.

5176
09:46:46,410 --> 09:46:52,870
And that day-night average, which is used by HUD to assess impact on residents,

5177
09:46:52,870 --> 09:47:02,150
is exactly that of 24-hour average, the average of 24 one-hour measurements with a penalty if you will, applied to noise at night.

5178
09:47:02,630 --> 09:47:09,690
So they actually weight the nighttime noise heavier, recognizing that people generally sleep at night,

5179
09:47:10,150 --> 09:47:16,890
and so it will actually raise that. Any noise made at night tends to raise that average even higher.

5180
09:47:17,670 --> 09:47:22,270
So that's why we use that. And the HUD does not just use that for urban environments.

5181
09:47:22,270 --> 09:47:27,050
they use it, they have active programs in suburban and rural areas as well.

5182
09:47:27,670 --> 09:47:34,430
But that particular number, that day night average level, 65 is somewhat of a threshold

5183
09:47:34,430 --> 09:47:46,310
where they say below 65 is normally acceptable for residential projects and 65 to 75 falls

5184
09:47:46,310 --> 09:47:53,530
into a normally unacceptable range that is where mitigation can be considered to kind

5185
09:47:53,530 --> 09:47:57,130
of bring it into an acceptable range.

5186
09:47:57,410 --> 09:48:01,290
So it doesn't mean automatically disqualified, it just means mitigation is usually considered

5187
09:48:01,290 --> 09:48:01,730
for that.

5188
09:48:02,850 --> 09:48:08,310
The difficulty with using that day night average level as an enforcement mechanism

5189
09:48:08,310 --> 09:48:10,790
is it's much more difficult to measure.

5190
09:48:10,790 --> 09:48:13,890
or someone can't go out and stand by the road.

5191
09:48:14,030 --> 09:48:16,490
Well, they could go out and stand by the road for 24 hours,

5192
09:48:17,170 --> 09:48:19,910
but you need to have, if you're going to leave

5193
09:48:19,910 --> 09:48:21,750
a sound meter there for 24 hours,

5194
09:48:23,210 --> 09:48:27,370
you need to have the knowledge that a tractor

5195
09:48:27,370 --> 09:48:31,550
didn't park near the meter for an hour or something else.

5196
09:48:31,670 --> 09:48:33,450
A dog wasn't parking next to the meter for an hour.

5197
09:48:33,610 --> 09:48:35,550
And there are ways to do that.

5198
09:48:35,690 --> 09:48:37,130
You can have someone witness the meter

5199
09:48:37,130 --> 09:48:39,530
or you can, we have more sophisticated equipment

5200
09:48:39,530 --> 09:48:44,370
that can record loud levels and we can tell if it was a dog barking, things like that.

5201
09:48:44,690 --> 09:48:50,110
But the point is it's much more difficult to enforce that kind of thing.

5202
09:48:50,250 --> 09:48:55,720
And then you have to back through, say your goal is 65 and you measure 66,

5203
09:48:56,430 --> 09:48:57,790
well what caused it to be 66?

5204
09:48:57,970 --> 09:49:01,210
You might have to go back and analyze each hour and see what really caused that.

5205
09:49:03,610 --> 09:49:04,350
Mr. Chair.

5206
09:49:04,810 --> 09:49:05,030
Yes.

5207
09:49:05,150 --> 09:49:06,810
Question for the witness.

5208
09:49:08,350 --> 09:49:15,410
Can you describe the mitigation factors, mitigation measures that you could employ to get to 65?

5209
09:49:18,030 --> 09:49:23,850
Yes, I can. A number of the mitigation measures are already in place.

5210
09:49:24,630 --> 09:49:30,790
The things that influence that day-night average are the number of vehicles, the speed limits,

5211
09:49:31,650 --> 09:49:36,090
whether the road is paved or not. I said the number of vehicles.

5212
09:49:36,090 --> 09:49:44,910
And then you can start to look at other things such as barriers, walls to block the sound,

5213
09:49:45,270 --> 09:49:45,970
things like that.

5214
09:49:48,400 --> 09:49:49,160
Road conditions?

5215
09:49:50,500 --> 09:49:52,440
Road conditions such as?

5216
09:49:52,680 --> 09:49:54,340
Well, would that be a mitigation measure?

5217
09:49:55,200 --> 09:49:57,420
Proving the road to pave it versus gravel?

5218
09:49:58,140 --> 09:49:58,460
Yes.

5219
09:49:58,460 --> 09:49:59,000
Yes,

5220
09:50:02,770 --> 09:50:12,290
and I would just add that while we realize the 86 DBA level is a truck passed by, the

5221
09:50:12,290 --> 09:50:21,110
other things that affect the cumulative impact on the residents are once you have the sound

5222
09:50:21,110 --> 09:50:27,150
of the truck passing by, how many trucks pass by, so we have limits on those already.

5223
09:50:28,030 --> 09:50:29,910
How fast are the trucks going?

5224
09:50:30,530 --> 09:50:31,590
We have limits on those.

5225
09:50:32,010 --> 09:50:35,450
So the other factors can be controlled and monitored as well.

5226
09:50:35,550 --> 09:50:39,010
So if you can control all the easily monitored things,

5227
09:50:40,230 --> 09:50:43,210
then you are essentially pushing towards control

5228
09:50:43,210 --> 09:50:46,010
and the overall average that you're interested in.

5229
09:50:50,820 --> 09:50:53,760
Do you have a general idea of what the average

5230
09:50:55,840 --> 09:50:58,160
might be on this

5231
09:50:58,160 --> 09:51:00,040
if it were to be averaged?

5232
09:51:00,040 --> 09:51:00,840
Well,

5233
09:51:04,300 --> 09:51:10,780
our study shows we've predicted those averages at many locations along the road for

5234
09:51:11,280 --> 09:51:15,900
many different scenarios of number of trucks and all that, the 80, 100, and 120 trucks.

5235
09:51:16,820 --> 09:51:25,860
So it varies depending on the distance of the home from the road and the number of

5236
09:51:25,860 --> 09:51:27,880
trucks scenario that we're in, things like that.

5237
09:51:28,140 --> 09:51:30,600
So that's a hard question to answer.

5238
09:51:30,600 --> 09:51:35,080
If you have a specific location, I can look into the report for that.

5239
09:51:35,760 --> 09:51:36,300
Thank you.

5240
09:51:41,550 --> 09:51:45,730
I don't know if it would be worthwhile to have Mr.

5241
09:51:48,610 --> 09:51:49,110
Kolkowski.

5242
09:51:49,350 --> 09:51:49,890
Kolkowski?

5243
09:51:50,170 --> 09:51:50,290
Yes.

5244
09:51:50,770 --> 09:51:55,390
Have Mr. Kolkowski, you did collect that or model that data, right?

5245
09:51:55,810 --> 09:51:58,330
For a number of the sites along the road?

5246
09:51:58,330 --> 09:52:02,190
Yes, we modeled it at virtually every home along the road.

5247
09:52:03,570 --> 09:52:10,110
I think it would be worth taking a look at that again. I read it, but I wasn't really...

5248
09:52:10,110 --> 09:52:16,430
This is not my training, my non-background in this, so what exhibit was that or what attachment was it?

5249
09:52:17,170 --> 09:52:17,970
Working on it.

5250
09:52:17,990 --> 09:52:20,530
I'm just looking that up right now. I always want you to come second.

5251
09:52:22,810 --> 09:52:23,250
The...

5252
09:52:23,250 --> 09:52:24,490
Carolyn Weidegen for the record.

5253
09:52:24,990 --> 09:52:30,310
There are a total, I believe, of four different noise study documents in your packet.

5254
09:52:31,550 --> 09:52:38,550
The original wave engineering study, a backup, the Aimee Martin study provided by the county

5255
09:52:38,550 --> 09:52:39,550
is number 12.

5256
09:52:40,150 --> 09:52:44,190
The wave engineering study dated January 4th, 2016 is number 13.

5257
09:52:44,910 --> 09:52:50,530
There's another Aimee Martin, which is number 15, and I think there's one other wave engineering

5258
09:52:50,530 --> 09:52:52,650
as well, which I'm still looking for.

5259
09:53:01,780 --> 09:53:06,640
If I may, Mr. Chair, I'd just note that the study we submitted is item 73.

5260
09:53:06,640 --> 09:53:08,960
Thank you.

5261
09:53:09,520 --> 09:53:11,820
And the final wave engineering is 68.

5262
09:53:12,640 --> 09:53:19,800
So all in your noise studies are 12, 13, 15, 73, and 68.

5263
09:53:20,340 --> 09:53:23,120
Very fourth report?

5264
09:53:23,540 --> 09:53:23,760
Yes.

5265
09:53:25,740 --> 09:53:30,480
So what I would ask then is that we just cut to the chase.

5266
09:53:32,360 --> 09:53:37,300
And from your studies, your wave studies, can you just direct us to which report you think would be

5267
09:53:37,300 --> 09:53:46,500
the most succinct in explaining noise impacts to the existing residences that you looked at,

5268
09:53:47,380 --> 09:53:50,040
and how it might pertain to this average idea.

5269
09:53:51,160 --> 09:53:58,300
The January 4th report was our main report, and we walked through, and that was...

5270
09:53:58,960 --> 09:53:59,540
Which one?

5271
09:53:59,880 --> 09:54:03,640
January 4th is number 13.

5272
09:54:03,880 --> 09:54:04,520
Number 13.

5273
09:54:05,200 --> 09:54:12,140
So that is really the comprehensive report that explains the methodology, explains the 24 hours.

5274
09:54:12,980 --> 09:54:21,480
The average, and at the end, has a number of these, a number of the graphic representations of the model,

5275
09:54:21,520 --> 09:54:30,520
which it has noted on there that the numbers you see on all those pictures are 24-hour average numbers.

5276
09:54:31,700 --> 09:54:43,980
We were asked after the Planning Commission approval to do a supplemental report to address

5277
09:54:43,980 --> 09:54:52,160
specifically the truck numbers and the road improvements that were in the RIA.

5278
09:54:52,840 --> 09:54:58,640
So that's what we didn't change anything, but we added to that to make sure that our

5279
09:54:58,640 --> 09:55:02,360
Our predictions were consistent with those truck counts and road improvements.

5280
09:55:03,120 --> 09:55:11,020
So perhaps if I walk through one of those, and the figures on this supplemental report,

5281
09:55:11,220 --> 09:55:12,560
which were the number 68,

5282
09:55:17,580 --> 09:55:22,220
let's look at

5283
09:55:26,340 --> 09:55:28,220
figure two.

5284
09:55:31,320 --> 09:55:33,640
So this is attachment 68.

5285
09:55:35,500 --> 09:55:36,180
Figure two.

5286
09:55:36,760 --> 09:55:37,260
That's correct.

5287
09:55:37,260 --> 09:55:40,480
The date on the report is May 13th.

5288
09:55:40,480 --> 09:55:40,900
Right.

5289
09:55:41,280 --> 09:55:41,520
Okay.

5290
09:55:41,940 --> 09:55:44,060
And so attachment, figure two is in the back.

5291
09:55:45,460 --> 09:55:49,340
It is a, it's an aerial photo.

5292
09:56:01,990 --> 09:56:06,370
Where would we find the number, where would we find the designation as figure two?

5293
09:56:07,050 --> 09:56:09,090
It is in the lower left corner.

5294
09:56:09,450 --> 09:56:13,530
It is packet page 1490.

5295
09:56:14,150 --> 09:56:14,570
All right, great.

5296
09:56:14,770 --> 09:56:15,050
Thank you.

5297
09:56:15,050 --> 09:56:16,170
So,

5298
09:56:23,780 --> 09:56:31,000
commissioners, the ribbon that our software assigns cuts off the figure, but it's, this

5299
09:56:31,000 --> 09:56:31,680
is confusing.

5300
09:56:32,220 --> 09:56:37,580
Yeah, it's packet page 1490 if you see that on your printed set.

5301
09:56:38,220 --> 09:56:47,500
It is the second of the exhibits scenario five in RIA and parentheses, east 80 trucks

5302
09:56:47,500 --> 09:56:49,460
phase one road improvements.

5303
09:56:56,200 --> 09:56:59,260
You have two ways to display the data on here.

5304
09:56:59,320 --> 09:57:00,780
One are these color contours,

5305
09:57:03,670 --> 09:57:09,150
and the second is if you see these kind of markers with the

5306
09:57:09,150 --> 09:57:12,910
boxes next to them with the numbers, that's what we call a receiver point.

5307
09:57:13,010 --> 09:57:14,450
So that's where the noise was modeled.

5308
09:57:15,930 --> 09:57:26,830
And so, if you, this is the eastern half of the road, the county road 120 north to the far left,

5309
09:57:27,370 --> 09:57:31,350
you'll see a box with McHugh and the number 63.1.

5310
09:57:31,490 --> 09:57:38,750
So that's saying that at that residence, and these points, the individual points were put closest,

5311
09:57:39,070 --> 09:57:43,350
near the closest structure on that particular property.

5312
09:57:43,350 --> 09:57:48,970
Some properties have more than one structure, but if there's a single home, it's at the

5313
09:57:48,970 --> 09:57:49,250
home.

5314
09:57:49,330 --> 09:57:51,510
If there are multiple structures, it's at the closest one to the road.

5315
09:57:52,610 --> 09:57:58,710
So for this particular scenario, their 24 hours is the 63, and as you follow the road

5316
09:57:59,890 --> 09:58:01,290
along, you'll see the numbers.

5317
09:58:01,510 --> 09:58:03,650
Some of them, the houses are further away.

5318
09:58:03,790 --> 09:58:05,470
The numbers might be in the high 40s.

5319
09:58:05,970 --> 09:58:07,510
Many of them are in the 50s.

5320
09:58:07,510 --> 09:58:14,950
All of the numbers that are at a house are in this 80-trucks scenario or below 65.

5321
09:58:21,460 --> 09:58:28,280
If you were to go look at the additional figures, you'll see that everything is below 65

5322
09:58:28,280 --> 09:58:33,700
and that's true of the west side as well.

5323
09:58:34,740 --> 09:58:39,140
The only thing that gets above 65,

5324
09:58:41,320 --> 09:58:43,380
I'll just double check this before I speak.

5325
09:58:43,380 --> 09:58:44,340
If

5326
09:58:50,040 --> 09:58:56,040
you go to, if you were to continue and look at 100 tucks, there's one home at the 90-degree turn.

5327
09:58:56,500 --> 09:59:01,480
In fact, it's the home that we looked at earlier with the 90-degree turn going through it.

5328
09:59:02,440 --> 09:59:04,500
Because that home is fairly close to the road.

5329
09:59:06,200 --> 09:59:09,420
For 100 trucks, that gets up to right at 65.

5330
09:59:09,920 --> 09:59:14,920
For 120 trucks, it goes just over 65 to 65

5331
09:59:17,000 --> 09:59:17,740
.9.

5332
09:59:17,740 --> 09:59:18,600
So

5333
09:59:21,670 --> 09:59:26,070
that is without, that is with the mitigation such as speed limits and paving the road or not,

5334
09:59:26,170 --> 09:59:29,810
but that is not with any barriers built or anything like that.

5335
09:59:30,190 --> 09:59:32,030
That was going to be my question, thank you.

5336
09:59:32,510 --> 09:59:35,910
We looked at that separately and showed the additional mitigation that that would provide.

5337
09:59:43,060 --> 09:59:50,860
So then you're, the next page, 1491 Scenario 5 with a 12-foot barrier wall,

5338
09:59:50,860 --> 09:59:58,900
How did you determine these numbers, 54.1, 54.6?

5339
10:00:01,360 --> 10:00:07,280
Okay, so those, if you look in that figure, we just, we picked a couple of the closest residences

5340
10:00:07,280 --> 10:00:14,860
we were asked to look at for the barrier walls, and showed that. So this is what the 80 trucks,

5341
10:00:16,260 --> 10:00:23,600
and if you see that red line kind of running east-west along the road, you see that heavy

5342
10:00:23,600 --> 10:00:30,300
red line. That's where a barrier might go. This is by far from any kind of final design.

5343
10:00:30,300 --> 10:00:34,660
We placed a 12-foot high wall, we left a space for the driveway,

5344
10:00:36,820 --> 10:00:41,100
and we showed the reduction that a barrier might provide.

5345
10:00:41,340 --> 10:00:46,580
So in this particular case, we had the two kind of marker points on there.

5346
10:00:46,660 --> 10:00:49,680
One is 54.1, one is 51.6.

5347
10:00:51,460 --> 10:00:55,360
If we looked back at the earlier figures, you could see that those were higher.

5348
10:00:55,360 --> 10:01:02,580
and you also see those contours kind of move closer to the road.

5349
10:01:03,220 --> 10:01:10,200
So it's basically showing that everywhere behind that barrier wall, the sound level drops.

5350
10:01:10,380 --> 10:01:15,200
As you get further away, the barrier isn't as effective.

5351
10:01:15,660 --> 10:01:19,700
So that's why there was some discussion earlier about the barrier not being effective on the hill.

5352
10:01:20,720 --> 10:01:27,540
It's because the homes are already back on top of the hill and are already getting some benefit of the shielding of the hill.

5353
10:01:27,820 --> 10:01:31,220
The barrier doesn't do much more for them.

5354
10:01:32,220 --> 10:01:34,040
It's not because the barrier doesn't block sound.

5355
10:01:34,120 --> 10:01:39,360
It blocks sound behind the barrier, but it just doesn't do the further way you get, the less effective it is.

5356
10:01:39,460 --> 10:01:43,900
So it helps more for the homes that are closer where it's most needed, which is good.

5357
10:01:46,230 --> 10:01:51,950
But if these were to go forward, someone decided they wanted this barrier.

5358
10:01:52,890 --> 10:02:00,110
We would go through a more extensive design process to decide exactly where an opening for a drive might be,

5359
10:02:00,310 --> 10:02:03,810
how far it would extend on each end, how high it would be, those kind of things.

5360
10:02:17,440 --> 10:02:21,800
That thoroughly answers that question I had. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

5361
10:02:32,120 --> 10:02:34,340
Mr. Chairman, if I could ask another question?

5362
10:02:35,480 --> 10:02:35,960
Yes.

5363
10:02:36,280 --> 10:02:37,320
This would be of staff.

5364
10:02:37,320 --> 10:02:44,480
and this is not mentioned in anything in terms of conditions and so on but my

5365
10:02:44,480 --> 10:02:52,360
question is if the permit is approved what ongoing costs and time will be

5366
10:02:52,360 --> 10:02:59,500
required of La Plata County staff. I noticed somewhere in GCC proposed that

5367
10:02:59,500 --> 10:03:02,720
La Plata County staff would facilitate meetings between the residents

5368
10:03:02,720 --> 10:03:09,980
regarding mitigation that I don't know whether that was something staff envisioned as well

5369
10:03:09,980 --> 10:03:19,160
but I guess what I don't want to unrealistically expect is that if we were to issue a permit

5370
10:03:19,160 --> 10:03:25,800
under conditions and what ongoing work will you have as staff as it relates to this permit

5371
10:03:25,800 --> 10:03:33,700
whether it being monitoring or facilitation, as is mentioned.

5372
10:03:40,440 --> 10:03:46,480
Commissioner, I believe what you're asking is relative to the creation of the barriers for buffering.

5373
10:03:49,940 --> 10:03:58,620
Staff would be involved with meetings and the outcome of the applicant's interactions with the neighbor.

5374
10:03:59,700 --> 10:04:08,540
We also would be involved with determining if and when there would be a necessity for

5375
10:04:08,540 --> 10:04:15,860
hiring an additional professional, depending on how many scenarios there are that could

5376
10:04:15,860 --> 10:04:24,660
lead to several days per scenario of time working with the applicant and the neighbor

5377
10:04:24,660 --> 10:04:26,620
and possibly the professional.

5378
10:04:30,930 --> 10:04:36,470
any other I mean I wasn't meaning just on that particular issue I mean why

5379
10:04:36,470 --> 10:04:42,710
there's there's some conditions that won't be fulfilled right away all of

5380
10:04:42,710 --> 10:04:46,630
the conditions yeah I mean with respect to the big picture I've been seeing you

5381
10:04:46,630 --> 10:04:52,150
guys put you know many many hours into this project over the last couple of

5382
10:04:52,150 --> 10:04:57,570
years should I expect to feed that in the future yeah I think so I think that

5383
10:04:57,570 --> 10:05:04,990
that there's going to be significant staff time involved with resolving the conditions

5384
10:05:04,990 --> 10:05:09,950
and fulfilling the conditions and working with the applicant, working with neighbors

5385
10:05:09,950 --> 10:05:18,230
in some scenario. Definitely, it involves more than just planning staff. It involves

5386
10:05:18,230 --> 10:05:24,850
public work staff, and it'll involve attorney time.

5387
10:05:25,230 --> 10:05:28,690
It's going to involve a significant number of staff parties

5388
10:05:28,690 --> 10:05:33,450
and looking through the fulfillment of these conditions.

5389
10:05:33,670 --> 10:05:34,950
There's no doubt about it.

5390
10:05:35,910 --> 10:05:38,850
I can't come up with a number off the top of my head for you.

5391
10:05:39,230 --> 10:05:46,690
I wish I could, but it's not over when you think it's over.

5392
10:05:49,270 --> 10:05:56,390
I would also like to address your question, and I think in many ways, once the board does

5393
10:05:56,390 --> 10:06:02,030
eventually approve the land use permit, in some ways the journey has just begun because

5394
10:06:02,030 --> 10:06:07,950
there certainly is monitoring, there certainly is our involvement as it relates to reviewing

5395
10:06:08,530 --> 10:06:15,270
right-of-way acquisition, as it relates to conceptual design, final design, and so

5396
10:06:15,270 --> 10:06:21,210
So our staff will continue to be involved long-term, not only in the monitoring of the

5397
10:06:21,210 --> 10:06:29,030
conditions of approval, but as well as the future phases that have to be done to the

5398
10:06:29,030 --> 10:06:31,770
road to honor those conditions of approval.

5399
10:06:38,710 --> 10:06:41,210
One other question that I have,

5400
10:06:44,210 --> 10:06:48,030
I'd like to get feedback on the – we talked about

5401
10:06:48,030 --> 10:06:58,310
as early, the ag dry up, and the concern that we have specifically in the western part of

5402
10:06:58,310 --> 10:07:06,810
the county plan, but I guess my question is what good does it do to have prevention of

5403
10:07:06,810 --> 10:07:14,650
ag dry up as a priority if we just project by project approve ag dry up?

5404
10:07:24,280 --> 10:07:31,100
Address a couple of other, I guess, competing issues that we certainly dealt with with this case.

5405
10:07:31,820 --> 10:07:36,740
As I'm sure the commissioners are aware, a water right in Colorado is a property right.

5406
10:07:37,540 --> 10:07:44,380
The state constitution allows an individual to change their water right, which is often a prerequisite to act dry up.

5407
10:07:46,900 --> 10:07:51,520
Oftentimes, entities or individuals who have water rights, especially agricultural water rights,

5408
10:07:51,520 --> 10:07:57,180
find it more profitable to to sell or lease those water rights to industrial

5409
10:07:57,180 --> 10:08:02,620
or municipal uses. It's a fairly common thing throughout the state. In terms of

5410
10:08:02,620 --> 10:08:07,000
why we have the goal to begin with, I'll certainly need to rely on some of my

5411
10:08:07,000 --> 10:08:12,320
colleagues, but I would like to articulate that the planning documents

5412
10:08:12,320 --> 10:08:19,020
that we have are guidance for the Board of County Commissioners. As I'm sure

5413
10:08:19,020 --> 10:08:23,600
Here you know you do not adopt the COMP plan or the district plan, so they are not part

5414
10:08:23,600 --> 10:08:28,800
of our regulatory documents that formally regulate land use permits.

5415
10:08:29,400 --> 10:08:33,640
They have more applicability for the planning commission, which does adopt those plans.

5416
10:08:35,240 --> 10:08:41,760
I'm going to turn to my colleagues if they want to say more on why we have the aspirational

5417
10:08:42,260 --> 10:08:44,640
statement about preventing attic dry up in the first place.

5418
10:08:45,240 --> 10:08:51,860
One thing I can add that we've discussed in the past with the Board, if you were interested

5419
10:08:51,860 --> 10:08:58,860
in making the ag dry-up prohibition more regulatory, there are counties who are doing

5420
10:08:58,860 --> 10:09:00,620
that through 1041 powers.

5421
10:09:01,340 --> 10:09:03,860
And that's really how it would translate for us, I think.

5422
10:09:05,890 --> 10:09:10,070
The problem's often associated with agricultural dry-up with the impacts of doing it on a

5423
10:09:10,070 --> 10:09:11,050
large-scale basis.

5424
10:09:13,270 --> 10:09:18,250
And for all the reasons I stated, it's a difficult thing to her prohibit on its face, even when

5425
10:09:18,250 --> 10:09:24,070
those communities that are using 1041, it's about trying to address the sometimes unintended,

5426
10:09:24,410 --> 10:09:27,450
sometimes known impacts of doing such agricultural drive.

5427
10:09:31,880 --> 10:09:32,840
Okay, thanks.

5428
10:09:33,700 --> 10:09:34,460
Great, thank you.

5429
10:09:36,480 --> 10:09:38,880
Mr. Davis, you're not getting away.

5430
10:09:39,960 --> 10:09:58,900
The construction, this proposal says that there will be construction on County Road 120 for presumably a fairly large number of months over the next few years with the truck traffic in addition to regular traffic.

5431
10:09:59,200 --> 10:10:03,420
How is that going to be managed effectively?

5432
10:10:04,300 --> 10:10:07,960
Well, I would say it'd be managed like most of our other county road projects.

5433
10:10:09,100 --> 10:10:12,860
County Road 240 I think was under construction the better part of the 90s.

5434
10:10:12,980 --> 10:10:16,600
We spent a fair amount of time over the past decade on 234.

5435
10:10:17,480 --> 10:10:24,780
And County Road 213, La Posta Road, most of your construction projects are typically constructed under what we call live traffic.

5436
10:10:24,900 --> 10:10:29,580
You don't just have the luxury in most cases of just shutting a road down while you reconstruct.

5437
10:10:30,080 --> 10:10:34,260
You know, in some cases where you may have a short section of road and you have alternate options.

5438
10:10:34,800 --> 10:10:38,680
That's an ideal situation, but usually not a luxury we have.

5439
10:10:39,080 --> 10:10:46,700
So we have the manual on uniform traffic control devices that pretty much governs and dictates traffic control, how that's handled.

5440
10:10:46,900 --> 10:10:53,080
We typically work with the applicant anytime they are required to make road improvements.

5441
10:10:53,280 --> 10:10:55,000
They have to submit a traffic control plan.

5442
10:10:55,140 --> 10:10:56,020
We review it.

5443
10:10:56,080 --> 10:10:57,060
We take a look at it.

5444
10:10:57,060 --> 10:11:03,760
And we work with them to make adjustments as need be if there are variations or unanticipated

5445
10:11:03,760 --> 10:11:04,700
complications.

5446
10:11:05,920 --> 10:11:07,400
I've heard school buses.

5447
10:11:07,560 --> 10:11:11,720
I don't think that's so much a consideration here, but we typically worked with developers

5448
10:11:11,720 --> 10:11:17,560
to try and minimize the impacts and the inconvenience to the traveling public during

5449
10:11:17,560 --> 10:11:21,480
the AM and PM peak hours if that's an issue as well.

5450
10:11:21,480 --> 10:11:27,120
But, you know, all I can say is we'll work with them as we do any other project and most

5451
10:11:27,120 --> 10:11:29,680
of our own county road projects.

5452
10:11:29,920 --> 10:11:31,920
This is an issue we deal with as well.

5453
10:11:33,320 --> 10:11:33,980
Thank you.

5454
10:11:37,910 --> 10:11:42,430
Another question for Mr. Davis, if you want to take a break in your multiple pages.

5455
10:11:45,050 --> 10:11:52,050
The question was raised earlier, Mr. Davis, about why has the county not applied May

5456
10:11:52,050 --> 10:11:53,530
Core ID this year?

5457
10:11:53,530 --> 10:11:57,390
Can you verify if that is the case, and if so, why not?

5458
10:11:58,170 --> 10:12:00,110
Quite honestly, I don't know offhand.

5459
10:12:00,270 --> 10:12:03,670
I can suspect our guys, our road and bridge priests, are aware.

5460
10:12:04,350 --> 10:12:05,130
This is ongoing.

5461
10:12:05,390 --> 10:12:07,230
We have mentioned to them over the fact

5462
10:12:07,230 --> 10:12:09,190
that if this permit gets approved,

5463
10:12:09,890 --> 10:12:12,710
there'll be a mile of section out there that would be paved.

5464
10:12:12,890 --> 10:12:15,190
So my thought is that they may be holding back

5465
10:12:15,190 --> 10:12:16,870
pending the outcome of this permit.

5466
10:12:17,450 --> 10:12:20,970
It might be wasted dollars if they did go apply the MAG

5467
10:12:20,970 --> 10:12:27,430
and GCC is out there reconstructing a mile of Grapple Road in a couple of weeks, so we

5468
10:12:27,430 --> 10:12:28,650
could be in a holding pattern.

5469
10:12:30,290 --> 10:12:30,910
Thank you.

5470
10:12:44,820 --> 10:12:50,280
As far as I know, I've got to quit asking questions at some point, but my big ones have

5471
10:12:50,280 --> 10:12:50,600
been answered.

5472
10:12:50,880 --> 10:12:50,960
Thanks.

5473
10:12:51,700 --> 10:12:52,460
Thank you, Laura.

5474
10:12:52,920 --> 10:12:56,720
So we're going to move to Rebato, and then should we explain the process?

5475
10:12:57,140 --> 10:13:02,520
Well, my suggestion on process would be to formally close all public comment.

5476
10:13:02,520 --> 10:13:06,660
that we can have the executive session tomorrow morning,

5477
10:13:07,080 --> 10:13:11,260
but to allow each party no more than 10 minutes

5478
10:13:11,840 --> 10:13:15,520
to talk about Mr. Robin's changes

5479
10:13:15,520 --> 10:13:17,240
to the road improvement agreement

5480
10:13:17,600 --> 10:13:19,240
and the conditions of approval

5481
10:13:19,520 --> 10:13:23,100
and then do re-battle after that tomorrow.

5482
10:13:23,760 --> 10:13:25,180
That's my suggestion.

5483
10:13:25,360 --> 10:13:26,440
I just think there's some things

5484
10:13:26,440 --> 10:13:29,160
that might come out of the debate

5485
10:13:29,160 --> 10:13:30,940
about the suggested amendments

5486
10:13:32,080 --> 10:13:39,820
that Mr. Robbins advanced that you might want to allow the parties to cover that in their rebuttal if necessary.

5487
10:13:41,620 --> 10:13:48,160
Mr. Jariff, I may. Commissioner Lacal asked staff to analyze truck traffic going south

5488
10:13:48,160 --> 10:13:51,120
and to come back this evening and be prepared with an answer.

5489
10:13:51,620 --> 10:13:54,680
We spent most of our dinner hour working through those iterations.

5490
10:13:54,940 --> 10:13:56,440
We can certainly speak to that now if it's helpful.

5491
10:13:59,060 --> 10:14:07,200
Well, for starters, we tried to constrain the problem, and we analyzed specifically can

5492
10:14:07,200 --> 10:14:14,260
25 trucks go on the southern route while North County Road 120 is being addressed, while

5493
10:14:14,260 --> 10:14:19,040
road improvements are being addressed through the phase project plan that you've heard

5494
10:14:19,040 --> 10:14:19,560
a lot about.

5495
10:14:19,560 --> 10:14:26,420
And for reasons I'll explain in a minute, staff is compelled to note that that option

5496
10:14:26,420 --> 10:14:29,720
would likely not comply with the code, and thereby we can't support it.

5497
10:14:29,760 --> 10:14:31,200
We can't recommend it at this time.

5498
10:14:31,640 --> 10:14:33,360
Let me go through our analysis with that.

5499
10:14:35,220 --> 10:14:40,840
One truck to the south would trigger all the same improvements pursuant to 7491,

5500
10:14:41,180 --> 10:14:44,920
as you have heard a lot about on the North County Road 120 option.

5501
10:14:45,320 --> 10:14:48,300
In fact, one truck going to the north triggers all of those improvements.

5502
10:14:48,860 --> 10:14:53,380
As you've heard us talk about and now numerous times, we have never waived those standards.

5503
10:14:53,540 --> 10:14:55,100
We have never deviated from those standards.

5504
10:14:55,400 --> 10:14:59,980
We're doing everything we can to ensure compliance with those standards when it comes to those rodents.

5505
10:15:00,980 --> 10:15:06,180
The one tool, the one point we've been able to work with is the timing of those improvements

5506
10:15:06,180 --> 10:15:10,660
and that has worked itself out in the road improvement agreement in particular.

5507
10:15:11,440 --> 10:15:16,380
But as stated, all those same improvements, all those same requirements would be triggered

5508
10:15:16,380 --> 10:15:19,460
if one truck of those 25 went to the south.

5509
10:15:20,220 --> 10:15:24,240
So differing from what we are currently dealing with on the North County Road 120 option,

5510
10:15:24,760 --> 10:15:29,340
if even one truck went to the south even for a short period of time, the five-year

5511
10:15:29,340 --> 10:15:33,960
period when County Road 120 would be improved, it would require the same level of improvements

5512
10:15:33,960 --> 10:15:37,360
and we are without the same tools that we've been relying on to analyze the North County

5513
10:15:37,360 --> 10:15:39,000
Road 120 option.

5514
10:15:39,620 --> 10:15:45,120
I believe it's highly unlikely that the applicant would agree to the same level of improvements

5515
10:15:45,120 --> 10:15:52,340
for South County Road 120, especially if the ultimate intent is for all of the trucks

5516
10:15:52,340 --> 10:15:53,960
to go on North County Road 120.

5517
10:15:54,380 --> 10:15:58,380
It's unrealistic that they would improve the road and it's certainly a question

5518
10:15:58,380 --> 10:16:01,780
that you can ask them, but it's unrealistic that they will improve the road for an interim

5519
10:16:01,780 --> 10:16:02,500
period of time.

5520
10:16:03,960 --> 10:16:09,360
Analyzing if this became a permanent solution and not an interim solution would quite literally

5521
10:16:09,360 --> 10:16:10,600
be a new application.

5522
10:16:10,880 --> 10:16:15,780
It's a pretty fundamental change from what was proposed to County to begin with.

5523
10:16:16,200 --> 10:16:17,720
So that's kind of the legal code analysis.

5524
10:16:17,960 --> 10:16:21,280
I think there's some deeper levels of issues that my colleagues are going to speak

5525
10:16:21,280 --> 10:16:21,780
to as well.

5526
10:16:21,780 --> 10:16:22,840
Like

5527
10:16:29,240 --> 10:16:35,280
it is in short, the southern route taking County Road 120 south to 116 to 119 to the

5528
10:16:35,280 --> 10:16:37,920
State Highway involves a longer stretch.

5529
10:16:38,100 --> 10:16:43,040
It hasn't been fully evaluated, as Adam just stated, but it's a little over nine miles.

5530
10:16:43,420 --> 10:16:47,280
There's five County Road intersections in addition to the State Highway intersection

5531
10:16:47,280 --> 10:16:53,180
and I think some of those issues were noted earlier today as it relates to the trucks

5532
10:16:53,180 --> 10:16:57,140
entering and leaving the highway at that county road.

5533
10:16:57,140 --> 10:17:02,880
So those are a number of issues that would really have to be fully vetted and looked into

5534
10:17:02,880 --> 10:17:07,380
which staff has not done at this time because that wasn't the proposal.

5535
10:17:12,540 --> 10:17:18,500
I'll add to this one of those technical items that Jim's talking about on Southern Route

5536
10:17:18,500 --> 10:17:19,720
is a very steep slope.

5537
10:17:20,440 --> 10:17:24,520
As you know, the applicant in September went through the variance process through

5538
10:17:24,520 --> 10:17:32,140
the Board of Adjustments and received an eight-tenths of a percent variance of one percent

5539
10:17:32,140 --> 10:17:34,600
variance to the minimum requirement for slope.

5540
10:17:35,730 --> 10:17:41,220
On the other side, at least on one of the routes out, there's much steeper hills, steeper

5541
10:17:41,220 --> 10:17:50,700
slope would demand either redesign or a different variance and then further processing.

5542
10:17:50,700 --> 10:17:58,680
Similar to what Adam said though, particularly our public process and compatibility analysis

5543
10:17:59,230 --> 10:18:04,500
yielded all our conditions of approval and the RIA that you have before you specifically

5544
10:18:04,500 --> 10:18:09,060
in order to achieve compliance with our code and compatibility.

5545
10:18:09,560 --> 10:18:19,000
And so it would be an entirely new project for analysis and that would take some significant

5546
10:18:19,000 --> 10:18:29,980
second time plus a revised application. Finally, I do want to point out that parochial planning

5547
10:18:29,980 --> 10:18:36,300
principle and growth management is to concentrate impacts and to concentrate improvements, infrastructure

5548
10:18:36,300 --> 10:18:43,680
improvements, reducing at large costs to the county perpetually for spreading all of that

5549
10:18:43,680 --> 10:18:50,300
infrastructure improvement out and having to maintain it, as well as concentrating the

5550
10:18:50,300 --> 10:18:54,340
impact to secure the least impacted area possible.

5551
10:18:54,840 --> 10:18:58,420
And that's just a general planning principle, and we relied on that when we looked at the

5552
10:18:58,420 --> 10:19:02,100
applicant's proposal, and that's incorporated with our presentation.

5553
10:19:02,520 --> 10:19:07,320
I think Daniel did a very good job with concisely putting that forward with his presentation,

5554
10:19:07,440 --> 10:19:09,300
but I just wanted to expand on that as well.

5555
10:19:11,290 --> 10:19:16,030
There's a final comment bringing it back to the proposed changes to the RIA and the findings

5556
10:19:16,030 --> 10:19:16,670
and conditions.

5557
10:19:17,390 --> 10:19:23,110
To the extent that any of those changes are aimed at a two-stage process, 55 trucks,

5558
10:19:23,270 --> 10:19:28,070
all the improvements occur, and then the applicant would be allowed to go to 120.

5559
10:19:28,170 --> 10:19:32,270
Those are certainly something that the county staff will review and be prepared to speak

5560
10:19:32,270 --> 10:19:33,070
more about tomorrow.

5561
10:19:33,690 --> 10:19:38,770
But to the extent that it is that proposal or that idea is predicated on diverting

5562
10:19:38,770 --> 10:19:45,250
25 trucks to the south. We can look more closely at it but our overarching comment is that staff

5563
10:19:45,250 --> 10:19:49,610
doesn't support that approach because it doesn't appear to meet the code and it would likely

5564
10:19:49,610 --> 10:19:51,390
require a new application.

5565
10:19:54,360 --> 10:19:59,440
Thank you for doing that homework over dinner. And for those

5566
10:19:59,440 --> 10:20:07,260
who weren't present earlier, the question was or I guess the proposal was raised

5567
10:20:07,260 --> 10:20:16,020
by one of the neighbors of perhaps splitting the traffic, allowing 55 trucks to the north,

5568
10:20:16,600 --> 10:20:26,980
and perhaps allowing if the applicant's desire is for up to 80 trucks a day, sending 25 to the south

5569
10:20:26,980 --> 10:20:31,480
to minimize impact to folks going north.

5570
10:20:31,480 --> 10:20:32,880
So, thank

5571
10:20:40,340 --> 10:20:40,620
you.

5572
10:20:41,160 --> 10:20:48,040
I failed to publicly close the public meeting.

5573
10:20:49,990 --> 10:20:50,710
I don't know what is it.

5574
10:20:53,020 --> 10:20:54,220
They're haunted today.

5575
10:20:57,140 --> 10:21:02,800
This time I'll publicly close the public comment portion of our meeting

5576
10:21:03,540 --> 10:21:08,500
and ask if there is any further discussion from commissioners.

5577
10:21:09,800 --> 10:21:10,260
Commissioner?

5578
10:21:13,500 --> 10:21:14,760
I have no other questions.

5579
10:21:16,340 --> 10:21:20,860
Liberation we're going to do tomorrow, I believe, and I'm still unclear, is your intent, Mr.

5580
10:21:21,020 --> 10:21:28,540
Chairman, to hear from the parties tonight or regarding Mr. Robbins' proposal?

5581
10:21:29,020 --> 10:21:36,800
Or has there already been some kind of stipulation that we'll have responses in the morning

5582
10:21:36,800 --> 10:21:42,320
as far as closings, and I don't know what, I just need to clear it up.

5583
10:21:42,320 --> 10:21:44,380
Are we going to do closings tonight or wait till tomorrow morning?

5584
10:21:45,340 --> 10:21:48,320
I believe that we're going to do closings tomorrow.

5585
10:21:48,980 --> 10:21:50,200
That's what I would suggest.

5586
10:21:51,280 --> 10:21:55,400
And I agree with that.

5587
10:21:56,380 --> 10:22:09,780
So our plan is to have an executive session set for 10.15 a.m. tomorrow morning and shortly thereafter, which I'm not sure of the time yet.

5588
10:22:11,140 --> 10:22:16,760
1230 so what I would suggest at this stage is that actually two separate

5589
10:22:16,760 --> 10:22:22,240
motions one would be to go into an executive session at 1015 tomorrow and

5590
10:22:22,240 --> 10:22:26,500
I can read the form of the motion for you on that and then the final motion of

5591
10:22:26,500 --> 10:22:32,860
the evening would be to continue this hearing until 1230 tomorrow and for the

5592
10:22:32,860 --> 10:22:36,640
public's benefit can you explain why the Commission desires to go into

5593
10:22:36,640 --> 10:22:41,860
Executive Session, I have a statutory I'm required to and I'm about to announce that if I'm going to be okay.

5594
10:22:43,540 --> 10:22:51,300
One other thing we talked about a little bit earlier is I do think we need to at some point say, okay, no more testimony.

5595
10:22:52,760 --> 10:22:58,480
Is that tonight? Because everything tomorrow is going to be legal, right?

5596
10:22:58,480 --> 10:22:58,600
Great.

5597
10:22:59,760 --> 10:23:05,020
Well, with respect to Mr. Robbins' proposal, are you guys expecting to have testimony

5598
10:23:07,100 --> 10:23:09,660
for – or yes, ma'am?

5599
10:23:10,540 --> 10:23:18,360
Mr. Chairman, Carolyn White, my understanding was that we were to have two 10-minute closing

5600
10:23:18,360 --> 10:23:22,800
comment periods, the first focused solely on the proposed RIA red lines and conditions

5601
10:23:22,800 --> 10:23:28,100
of approval red lines proposed by Mr. Robbins, the second of which would be the final

5602
10:23:28,100 --> 10:23:33,540
final rebuttal, and I also understood you to say that both the opponent-neighbors collectively

5603
10:23:33,540 --> 10:23:38,660
as a group would have that opportunity, as would staff, as would the applicant, and so

5604
10:23:38,660 --> 10:23:47,220
I think that's three times ten times two total that you've offered to all of us for closing

5605
10:23:47,220 --> 10:23:47,600
remarks.

5606
10:23:47,700 --> 10:23:48,900
That's my understanding of it.

5607
10:23:48,960 --> 10:23:52,140
Is that consistent with other council's understanding of it?

5608
10:23:55,760 --> 10:23:57,200
So what it will be is-

5609
10:23:57,200 --> 10:23:57,980
As long as we go last.

5610
10:23:59,140 --> 10:24:04,000
Each party will have 10 minutes to address Mr. Robbins' proposed amendments.

5611
10:24:04,960 --> 10:24:12,360
GCC, well, then the neighbors will have 5 minutes for closing and rebuttal.

5612
10:24:12,500 --> 10:24:15,820
The planning will have 5 minutes for closing and rebuttal, and then you will have 10.

5613
10:24:18,520 --> 10:24:20,900
That is agreeable and understood by GCC.

5614
10:24:22,120 --> 10:24:23,300
For a final, final.

5615
10:24:23,300 --> 10:24:23,400
No.

5616
10:24:23,980 --> 10:24:30,580
And the parties don't expect to need testimony tomorrow with respect to Mr. Robbins' redline?

5617
10:24:31,240 --> 10:24:33,860
We intend to deliver argument, not testimony.

5618
10:24:36,720 --> 10:24:39,500
County staff is the same.

5619
10:24:39,780 --> 10:24:41,320
We will do five minutes of closing.

5620
10:24:41,480 --> 10:24:44,620
I'm not sure we have much testimony regarding the proposed redlines.

5621
10:24:45,240 --> 10:24:45,940
We're the same.

5622
10:24:46,420 --> 10:24:46,780
Okay.

5623
10:24:46,780 --> 10:24:56,480
Then I would move that we close evidence if you guys are done looking and we have received

5624
10:24:56,480 --> 10:25:02,980
the public comments that were written, but I don't believe they're related to the evidence

5625
10:25:02,980 --> 10:25:03,820
that we're taking now.

5626
10:25:04,620 --> 10:25:09,340
Can I ask if you're ready to do that, if you are also ready to talk about the exhibits

5627
10:25:09,340 --> 10:25:10,500
that will form the record?

5628
10:25:11,640 --> 10:25:15,900
Before we do that, I just want to make a change for the board that I keep in mind

5629
10:25:15,900 --> 10:25:21,600
And tomorrow we have a joint governing body meeting with the city of Durango in this room

5630
10:25:21,600 --> 10:25:28,020
scheduled for four o'clock, so just reminding the board that we do have a hard stop at that

5631
10:25:28,020 --> 10:25:28,340
time.

5632
10:25:28,680 --> 10:25:29,080
So

5633
10:25:31,200 --> 10:25:37,640
what I'm handing out to the board is a list of the documents that are based on

5634
10:25:37,640 --> 10:25:40,580
the board's express sentiment so far, part of the record.

5635
10:25:41,120 --> 10:25:46,160
It's with the 77 attachments to the staff report, then there are seven additional

5636
10:25:46,160 --> 10:25:46,740
documents.

5637
10:25:46,740 --> 10:25:59,580
The documents over which we are still waiting for determination, there's nine of them listed, and I think that's it. I don't know. I don't think you want me to read it.

5638
10:26:01,930 --> 10:26:11,710
The one through six we discussed in detail this morning. Number seven is the written statement of Carl Mount produced by Cross Creek Ranch.

5639
10:26:12,670 --> 10:26:18,990
eight or Mr. Robbins red lines and to the RIA and nine are the revised

5640
10:26:18,990 --> 10:26:21,750
conditions of approval those we might have to hold out on.

5641
10:26:25,290 --> 10:26:29,150
And just one edit to

5642
10:26:29,150 --> 10:26:32,630
the title of this hearing dated 531.

5643
10:26:35,600 --> 10:26:36,280
We

5644
10:26:40,560 --> 10:26:47,240
talked about some we kind of put some

5645
10:26:47,240 --> 10:26:53,260
things to the side this morning. And as far as I know, none of them became relevant. So

5646
10:26:54,940 --> 10:26:59,100
I would, and we had no motions from anybody to bring them back in because they were kind

5647
10:26:59,100 --> 10:27:07,180
of off to the side unless they were relevant. So my position is that we not actually even

5648
10:27:07,180 --> 10:27:11,420
the number seven that came in from Mr. Mount, we made a similar determination. I believe

5649
10:27:11,420 --> 10:27:20,860
that was related to waste rock and that so I still I guess my thought is that

5650
10:27:20,860 --> 10:27:26,400
1 through 7 still don't still aren't relevant to our consideration and would

5651
10:27:26,400 --> 10:27:29,120
not be appropriate as exhibits as

5652
10:27:34,660 --> 10:27:39,120
to as to the issue of waste disposal I think

5653
10:27:39,120 --> 10:27:43,880
it is something that this Commission has to take on because I think your

5654
10:27:43,880 --> 10:27:50,720
county land use code requires it. As to Mr. Mount I guess all I'd say is I saw

5655
10:27:50,720 --> 10:27:56,560
all kinds of people today disappear and when they were gone they left behind a

5656
10:27:56,560 --> 10:28:01,720
note we read it in and nobody said well that one's relevant that one's not

5657
10:28:01,720 --> 10:28:08,700
relevant. Mr. Mount was here all morning with us ready to talk on the

5658
10:28:08,700 --> 10:28:13,260
phone but because our we were postponed to this afternoon is the only

5659
10:28:13,260 --> 10:28:17,220
reason it's in writing. If he had testified in person, I don't think you would have stricken

5660
10:28:17,220 --> 10:28:23,900
him down. So I think he's in a little different category because the board has been very open

5661
10:28:23,900 --> 10:28:29,940
to hearing from people who weren't able to be here and taking things on pink sheets that

5662
10:28:29,940 --> 10:28:34,060
people wrote down. Is it correct that he's your consultant, though? He's not a member

5663
10:28:34,060 --> 10:28:39,420
of the public and neighbor? He's not a member, but you know, I suppose he has a constitutional

5664
10:28:39,420 --> 10:28:44,100
right to address this board and we have a constitutional right to bring him here.

5665
10:28:45,660 --> 10:28:50,460
That's my point. I've made my point and I don't want to take any more of your time unless you have a question.

5666
10:28:50,640 --> 10:28:54,740
There were things in the file already related to Mr. Mount.

5667
10:28:55,080 --> 10:28:58,180
I recall seeing his name and reading it and so on.

5668
10:29:02,240 --> 10:29:09,900
Like other experts have testified here, he wanted to testify but he couldn't testify by phone because we didn't get our turn this morning.

5669
10:29:12,160 --> 10:29:18,180
You guys think I would support admitting it, since he was prepared to testify?

5670
10:29:19,040 --> 10:29:24,520
I'm fine, admitting it, I think that it doesn't relate, but.

5671
10:29:27,840 --> 10:29:41,000
If it is allowed, I think then you're going to also have to allow items 5 and 6 as those

5672
10:29:41,000 --> 10:29:44,240
all also relate to king one was

5673
10:29:46,610 --> 10:29:49,150
the issue king one or is the issue rock if

5674
10:29:49,150 --> 10:29:57,220
solid waste removal from king two same issue mr. chairman if we could be heard

5675
10:29:57,220 --> 10:29:59,900
on this issue we do object to allowing that

5676
10:30:00,500 --> 10:30:04,140
We weren't aware, actually, that telephonic testimony was permitted and Mr.

5677
10:30:04,240 --> 10:30:08,140
Mount was not present in person. He was going to be available by telephone.

5678
10:30:08,780 --> 10:30:12,780
You know, we heard this before from the opponents group that if they had known

5679
10:30:12,780 --> 10:30:15,140
this would have been an issue, they would have brought their experts here.

5680
10:30:15,200 --> 10:30:18,740
They said that at the planning commission. This is an issue that not only they

5681
10:30:18,740 --> 10:30:22,240
knew about, but they planned to raise. And that's why we were forced to bring

5682
10:30:22,240 --> 10:30:25,960
our experts and produce our responses on this topic so we could be prepared

5683
10:30:25,960 --> 10:30:30,740
to address it. So we would object to it being included, but if you decide to include it,

5684
10:30:31,040 --> 10:30:35,220
we certainly feel that all of the other documents we propose to include on that subject ought

5685
10:30:35,220 --> 10:30:37,360
to also be included for the same reason.

5686
10:30:38,440 --> 10:30:44,160
If I may, Mr. Chair, just for the record, we've got a fistful of emails from the staff

5687
10:30:44,160 --> 10:30:49,240
telling us that having telephone testimony is just fine and that we could plan on

5688
10:30:49,240 --> 10:30:51,680
doing it. So this is not the case.

5689
10:30:51,680 --> 10:30:56,400
If you want to get an argument over whether it's telephone, he's allowed to do that.

5690
10:30:57,200 --> 10:31:03,700
It's just the relevancy of the topic of the king one mine waste and whether the board

5691
10:31:03,700 --> 10:31:04,100
wants.

5692
10:31:05,240 --> 10:31:09,700
I don't know that you've heard other testimony on it, so what you would really have is just

5693
10:31:09,700 --> 10:31:10,660
the written testimony.

5694
10:31:12,320 --> 10:31:15,320
And again, it relates which condition is it, Adam?

5695
10:31:20,390 --> 10:31:21,070
So

5696
10:31:23,240 --> 10:31:29,400
I guess what I would encourage the board to do is look at condition 2 and decide whether

5697
10:31:30,260 --> 10:31:38,100
you feel like you need any testimony in order to support that or if you wish to amend it

5698
10:31:38,100 --> 10:31:39,940
because you disagree with the condition.

5699
10:31:40,680 --> 10:31:46,880
I can clarify, condition 2 just requires GCC to provide a report and accounting, if

5700
10:31:46,880 --> 10:31:54,020
will of the waste rock that is exiting King II coal mine.

5701
10:31:54,760 --> 10:31:59,180
More important, I think, to this would be finding number seven, which specifically notes

5702
10:31:59,180 --> 10:32:04,040
and is as proposed by staff that this land use permit doesn't contemplate or include

5703
10:32:04,040 --> 10:32:05,100
King I coal mine.

5704
10:32:05,820 --> 10:32:10,380
It has nothing to do with county staff not believing that what is transpiring at

5705
10:32:10,380 --> 10:32:11,800
King I coal mine is not important.

5706
10:32:11,800 --> 10:32:18,640
We do. We intend to deal with that situation likely as soon as the hearing on King II coal

5707
10:32:18,640 --> 10:32:24,440
mines commence. But we have for quite some time, years, even, analyzed that as a separate

5708
10:32:24,440 --> 10:32:25,360
and distinct land use.

5709
10:32:28,980 --> 10:32:35,740
But it is an activity that is utilizing County Road 120.

5710
10:32:38,140 --> 10:32:42,220
It is material taken from King

5711
10:32:42,220 --> 10:32:45,700
to coal mine to disposal locations?

5712
10:32:46,460 --> 10:32:52,940
Is material taken from King II coal mine and being disposed of at King I coal mine in the

5713
10:32:52,940 --> 10:32:59,560
same way that many commercial uses in La Plata County have commercial trash service where

5714
10:32:59,560 --> 10:33:03,040
somebody comes and picks up their trash and then takes it to another location.

5715
10:33:03,260 --> 10:33:09,500
We do not consider or permit where that trash is going to and ensure that it's a permitted

5716
10:33:09,500 --> 10:33:11,740
landfill as part of any other commercial operation.

5717
10:33:11,740 --> 10:33:13,340
It's essentially the same thing here.

5718
10:33:13,980 --> 10:33:19,740
If the waste rock from King II coal mine, it's being taken off the side and being taken

5719
10:33:19,740 --> 10:33:20,660
to another location.

5720
10:33:20,880 --> 10:33:24,700
If that other location does not have the requisite land use permit, we certainly will deal with

5721
10:33:24,700 --> 10:33:26,160
it through a code enforcement perspective.

5722
10:33:27,540 --> 10:33:30,240
And that is, it's absolutely our intent.

5723
10:33:30,400 --> 10:33:32,320
We've had these conversations with the applicant.

5724
10:33:32,520 --> 10:33:36,800
I think they're well aware that county staff intends to address that situation

5725
10:33:36,800 --> 10:33:39,300
as soon as these proceedings conclude.

5726
10:33:39,300 --> 10:33:40,380
Council?

5727
10:33:51,980 --> 10:33:52,580
Discussion?

5728
10:33:54,000 --> 10:33:54,600
I

5729
10:33:58,470 --> 10:34:01,070
guess my cloud is seeking legal counsel on this matter.

5730
10:34:04,570 --> 10:34:10,310
I know this might meet with some jurors, but I'm siding with the planning department.

5731
10:34:10,890 --> 10:34:14,910
I do think it's an analogy.

5732
10:34:15,110 --> 10:34:20,030
I've used myself that with the waste, it is a separate issue.

5733
10:34:20,750 --> 10:34:24,870
As far as them using County Road 120, Jim, do you know,

5734
10:34:24,870 --> 10:34:30,590
Are those track counts also included in the, how are we calculating those in the numbers?

5735
10:34:31,310 --> 10:34:31,590
Yes.

5736
10:34:32,530 --> 10:34:38,690
Mr. Chairman, I'm informed by our traffic engineer that the traffic counts related to the transfer

5737
10:34:38,690 --> 10:34:44,570
of materials from King 2 to King 1 are included in the traffic numbers analyzed in our traffic study

5738
10:34:44,570 --> 10:34:48,330
and included in all of the analysis for the road improvements.

5739
10:34:48,750 --> 10:34:51,690
As far as impact on the road, it should be addressed then.

5740
10:34:51,690 --> 10:34:56,310
So to clarify, that's part of the 80 truck trips per day.

5741
10:34:56,870 --> 10:35:03,830
The 80 truck trips refers only to the trucks transporting coal for ultimate disposition,

5742
10:35:04,010 --> 10:35:08,950
but the traffic study, which is the complete analysis that recommended the total package of improvements

5743
10:35:08,950 --> 10:35:14,030
that is being required through the RIA, which takes into account all of the traffic generated by the mine,

5744
10:35:14,030 --> 10:35:19,450
including employees, water hauling, deliveries, et cetera, also includes these numbers.

5745
10:35:19,450 --> 10:35:21,890
So it's not in the 80, it's in the total.

5746
10:35:31,600 --> 10:35:46,580
So with GCC, if number seven is in, what of those items that you proposed to middle on do you think relates to number seven?

5747
10:35:48,280 --> 10:35:49,160
Five and six?

5748
10:35:49,640 --> 10:35:49,920
I'm

5749
10:35:52,100 --> 10:35:52,700
sorry, you asked?

5750
10:35:52,780 --> 10:35:54,340
No, I'm sorry, I'm asking GCC.

5751
10:35:55,740 --> 10:36:02,900
Mr. Chairman, first of all, finding number seven is one with which GCC agrees and concurs

5752
10:36:02,900 --> 10:36:04,700
and we have no dispute or question.

5753
10:36:06,940 --> 10:36:14,720
If it is the inclination of the Board to allow in items six and seven proposed by Mr. Daniels

5754
10:36:14,720 --> 10:36:18,980
and then we would ask that you also allow in items four and five submitted to GCC,

5755
10:36:19,080 --> 10:36:20,380
which relate to the same issue.

5756
10:36:42,380 --> 10:36:47,440
You're right. That's my mistake. That is a different matter. So it's just our item number

5757
10:36:47,440 --> 10:36:48,540
Just five.

5758
10:36:49,280 --> 10:36:53,660
Then I would just, you know, I think the issue of the waste rock

5759
10:36:53,660 --> 10:36:57,020
has been raised enough for the commissioner to ask a question,

5760
10:36:57,180 --> 10:37:00,160
and it certainly was in the documents we got.

5761
10:37:00,680 --> 10:37:05,780
I would go ahead and change my mind and just move that we accept

5762
10:37:05,780 --> 10:37:07,840
numbers five and seven into evidence.

5763
10:37:11,130 --> 10:37:13,210
Not six, but not six.

5764
10:37:13,270 --> 10:37:15,630
You just said five. You said number five only, correct?

5765
10:37:16,990 --> 10:37:21,590
So our documents are four and five, their documents are six and seven.

5766
10:37:22,210 --> 10:37:24,810
If you take six and seven, we want you to also take five.

5767
10:37:25,050 --> 10:37:25,270
Gotcha.

5768
10:37:26,330 --> 10:37:29,950
All right, then let's go with making that five, six and seven.

5769
10:37:31,630 --> 10:37:41,570
So based on that, the May 27 letter from Trent Peterson on the King Line will become exhibit 85.

5770
10:37:52,170 --> 10:38:01,990
The May 28th letter from Trent Peterson on King 1 becomes Exhibit 85.

5771
10:38:02,550 --> 10:38:09,470
The May 30th letter from Luke Danielson is 86 and the written statement from Carl Mount

5772
10:38:09,470 --> 10:38:10,290
is 87.

5773
10:38:14,620 --> 10:38:15,520
That was my motion.

5774
10:38:18,220 --> 10:38:21,800
Items 1-3-4 are excluded and 8-9 will wait till tomorrow.

5775
10:38:21,800 --> 10:38:27,880
all in favor aye aye thank you

5776
10:38:30,880 --> 10:38:34,260
respect to the motion for tomorrow's can I close

5777
10:38:34,260 --> 10:38:39,500
can I get a close of evidence that's what we're aiming for go ahead I'm gonna

5778
10:38:39,500 --> 10:38:48,400
move again that we close evidence all in favor please say aye aye aye aye the

5779
10:38:48,400 --> 10:38:54,300
motion for an executive session on June 1st 2016 at 10 15 a.m. will be for

5780
10:38:54,300 --> 10:38:59,840
For the purposes of the Board receiving legal advice on specific legal questions, pursuant

5781
10:38:59,840 --> 10:39:06,800
to Colorado Revised Statue 2464024B for the purpose of discussing GCC compliance with

5782
10:39:06,800 --> 10:39:10,840
state and federal permits and the La Plata County Code and for determining positions

5783
10:39:10,840 --> 10:39:15,420
relative to matters that may be subject to negotiations, developing strategy for

5784
10:39:15,420 --> 10:39:22,040
negotiations and instructing negotiators, pursuant to Colorado Revised Statue 2464024E

5785
10:39:22,040 --> 10:39:24,800
regarding the Road Improvement Agreement with GCC.

5786
10:39:26,260 --> 10:39:27,120
So moved.

5787
10:39:29,610 --> 10:39:30,270
All in favor?

5788
10:39:30,830 --> 10:39:31,010
Aye.

5789
10:39:31,570 --> 10:39:31,810
Aye.

5790
10:39:32,670 --> 10:39:33,150
Thank you.

5791
10:39:37,860 --> 10:39:43,420
I move that we continue this matter to tomorrow at 12.30 p.m.

5792
10:39:44,860 --> 10:39:45,760
All in favor?

5793
10:39:46,500 --> 10:39:46,780
Aye.

5794
10:39:47,100 --> 10:39:47,280
Aye.

5795
10:39:47,560 --> 10:39:47,860
Aye.

5796
10:39:48,300 --> 10:39:48,920
Thank you.

5797
10:39:49,540 --> 10:39:50,520
Thank you all for coming.

5798
10:39:51,040 --> 10:39:51,200
I'm

5799
10:39:54,430 --> 10:39:57,390
not sure if what all those people said is not as far back in the room.

5800
10:39:57,810 --> 10:39:58,190
I know.

5801
10:39:58,190 --> 10:39:59,030
That was too bad.