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Good morning, everyone. I think we've worked out some of the technical difficulties. I would like to call our meeting for the GCC energy.

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King to coal mine class to project 2-012-0089 to order.

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For the record, please note that all three commissioners are Commissioner Lackolt, Commissioner Westendorf and myself Commissioner Blake.

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As preliminary matter, we request that you remove your hats and turn off your cellphones.

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We would also like to request that anyone wishing to speak on any matter on today's agenda.

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Please fill out one of the pink slips.

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They are available usually right back here by the sink.

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And give those to Jeannie here to my right.

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If you would please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance

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and to repout like for which it stands

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One nation under God in the physical with liberty and justice for all

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You'll please bear with me for a minute. I have a few notes that I need to relate to everyone here

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Oh first I need a motion for the agenda. I move the way approved the agenda all in favor

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I. I. I. Thank you.

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This will be the format of the hearing the planning department applicant and neighbors represented by council will each have one hour in which to present their.

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The project or their concerns with the project at the conclusion of those three presentations if time allows the board may have questions.

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We will take one hour for lunch break from noon to 1 o'clock at 1 o'clock and at 6 o'clock tonight we will accept public testimony on the project.

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Public comment will be limited to three minutes per speaker.

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It is our intent to accept public testimony until everyone has been heard.

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At the conclusion of the public testimony the board will likely have questions for select parties or experts.

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At the conclusion of the public comment portion tonight, I will close the public comment period.

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The parties will then be allowed to an opportunity for rebuttal, the county and the represented neighbors will have five minutes each,

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because GCC bears the burden of demonstrating compliance with the code GCC.

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will be allocated 10 minutes for rebuttal. Finally the board will

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deliberate and make a decision. Time keeping the clerk to the board will

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time each party or speaker so you will hear a beep. Go off at the conclusion

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of your time. Please conclude your remarks on or before the beeper. Rules of

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the House speak directly into the microphone if the red light is not

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You are not being recorded because there is a court reporter here today, please be sure that only one person at a time speaks and that you say yes or no as opposed to nodding your head.

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If you would like to speak, please complete the pink slip as I mentioned earlier.

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I will call three speakers at a time, sort of be kind of like being batter up and on deck so that we can hear more public comment in a more timely fashion.

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If your name is called, please move to the front of the room and speak at the podium.

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We value and respect every opinion and ask the audience to do the same by refraining from

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applause or outbursts or disruptions. I would now like to ask the county attorney to describe

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what is to form the record for purposes of this hearing.

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Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

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Cheryl Rogers, the Plata County Attorney. With respect to the formal record for this hearing,

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it will consist of the staff report and the 77 attachments that are listed on pages 47 through 49 of the staff report.

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We will also accept written public comment received through 4 p.m. today.

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There are total of five power points.

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The first is from Laplada County and that will be designated then as attachment and exhibit 78.

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Attachment 79 will be GCC's PowerPoint.

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Exhibit 80 will be the PowerPoint by a Cross Creek Ranch LLC.

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81 is the PowerPoint with the logo of Goldman Robbins and Rogers representing Southwest Colorado advocates.

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And 82 will be a PowerPoint by Southwest Colorado advocates.

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those are the formal documents for the record. Since Friday, I have received six additional

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documents. I want to describe those and then as the parties, if they have any objections

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to the admission of those documents, the first three were submitted by GCC and all relate

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to water supply. One is the January 28th, 2015 letter from Harris Water Engineering to Emily

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of CDPH, regarding a request for information.

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Number two is the February 26 letter from the Colorado Department

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of Natural Resources, the Division of Water Resources

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to Jeff Craig, attorney for GCC, regarding the GCC Energy,

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LLC, Substitute Water Supply Plan.

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And the third one is a document dated November 16, 2015.

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Title GCC, Energy, Mind, Water Supply,

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safe yield analysis drafted by Harris Water Engineering.

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So Mr. Smith does the county consent or agree or have comments or concerns with the

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admission of those?

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Ms. Adams, the Plot of County Attorney's Office, I'm Council for County Staff in these

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proceedings.

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We have no objection.

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We would note that we fully support the three water documents being on the record, however

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I'd like to briefly make a record on one issue relating to one of those water documents.

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We could certainly discuss these matters later, but for now I'd like to just make a record of an issue

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specifically speaking about the

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Harris water engineering letter dated January 28th, directed to CBPAG

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paragraph 8 of that letter request that GCCB allowed to only have one pumping unit instead of redundant systems

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and they're proposing that if the pumping unit

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goes offline that they can simply haul potable water until the equipment is fixed.

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That would likely contradict with least-staffs proposed condition number six, which prohibits

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water hauling after September 30th, 2016.

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Then that issue, at least with the three water documents, we support them going on the record.

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We have no objections to the other documents, but frankly, we don't see the relevance

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of all the documents that today is hearing.

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Danielson and Robbins, the three water documents, can you come to the mic please?

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I'm sorry, sorry.

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I knew Danielson, a attorney representing Cross Creek ring.

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We haven't even read all of the documents that came in over the weekend.

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Our initial conclusion is they're very incomplete to make a complete picture on these.

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We would then have to come back and give

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counter-doctoral documents, so we do object to the last minute receipt of these documents.

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That's why.

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Mr. Chairman, County Attorney, Carolyn White, Council for the applicant.

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I would just note that these are documents that have already been in the record for a very long time, more than a year on some cases.

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And the only reason for us submitting them at this time was that they were not listed by staff as being attachments to the staff report

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and in the event that issues addressed in those documents were arose at the time of this hearing today we wanted them to be handy and easily available.

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But as a practical matter all of the documents which have been submitted to the county over the many years of this application process are technically part of the record.

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These documents are not new and counsel for the opponents certainly would have had the opportunity to review them in the record had they so chosen over the last several years.

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So we would urge you to accept them for today, but even if they aren't part of today's record,

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they are still part of the record for the application.

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Mr. Chair, what I would recommend is that the board discuss and decide on these three documents,

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and then we can talk about the other three.

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Did Mr. Albans have any comment?

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Yes, for Albans for the record, and I integrate with Mr. Danielson's comments.

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Discussion?

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I have a question as it relates to these documents, is what you indicated that these were already

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part of the file, but that they hadn't been included with the staff report, are they among

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the exhibits that were in the, you know, is it, is there a currently labeled exhibit that,

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that there were, there were 77 initial exhibits. Are you saying these were among those 77

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original exhibits? Herman, Commissioner Carolyn White again, no, they were not among the 77 exhibits,

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And that was why we thought it appropriate to have them convenient for you.

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There are hundreds of documents which are not among the 77 exhibits because this application is voluminous and complex and has been going on for some time.

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And staff understandably had to select those documents which they felt most relevant for your review to attach today or else the record would have been too long for you to review today.

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So, all we were doing was just bringing them forward from where they were in the record to have him handy and convenient for today's hearing.

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To chair for me? Yes.

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Adam Smith County Attorney's Office.

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We would like to clarify that some of these documents were certainly in the planning file,

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but it is not our position that they were ever made part of the record.

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I e presented to the Board of County Commissioners for your review as part of hearing this latest application this morning.

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Mr. Chair, I would like the GCC Attorney to state for the record the relevance of

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these materials to this hearing.

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Chairman, Commissioner Carolyn White again.

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Given our understanding that the opponent is intended to raise some questions specifically

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related to water quality and availability to serve the project and that these documents

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contain some facts relevant to that point. We felt it appropriate to include them today so

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that we could refer to them and answering those questions if they arise.

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Thank you.

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So, commissioners, one option that you have given Ms. White's responses to not necessarily

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add them to the record now, but wait and see if, in fact, the other parties do discuss

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these topics and then at that point in time is why could indicate their relevance and then you could accept them.

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I'm not inclined to accept these documents onto the record.

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What was contained and what would be contained in this record, though 77, I believe it was 77 exhibits, has been available for a long time to get these supplemental documents.

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literally the day before the hearing, I think, is not timely, and I think that the applicant

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had a lot of time to review those to figure out how the important documents been included.

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The arguments raised by the opponents of the project.

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I think have been clear for a number of years, and I think for purposes of rebuttal, which is kind

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But Ms. Rogers was just talking about, they may be relevant at that time, but at this

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point I think they were not timely filed, and I would not support having them included

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in the record.

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Mr. Chair, question for the county attorney, how much time did the applicant have?

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The staff report for this hearing was released to the public two weeks ago, so that is

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And we were very formal with the number of attachments.

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I think it's substantially similar to what was at the PC level.

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But what was the exact date, Daniel?

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18th of November, thank you.

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If I may, the opponents have not had a reasonable period of time

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to review the documents, just to fortify the justification for my position.

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Thank you.

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In reviewing the documents which I had the opportunity to review,

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they all were older and time period.

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Therefore, I am inclined to accept them on the record today,

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but I guess I will entertain a motion and see where we go with it.

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I have a motion for the...

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I guess we don't have a motion to admit them.

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Which case they will not be admitted.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Back up a motion. Correct. That this juncture. Again, if for bubble purposes, they become relevant, then that's a different question.

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Okay. So, Mr. Chair, the fourth letter is dated May 27, 2016. It's from Gina Nance, GCC Vice President, Environment and Energy to Daniel Murray,

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of a Platte County senior planner regarding wild earth guardian citizens complain submitted

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to the office of surface mining reclamation and enforcement dated May 19, 2016.

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I would like to note that the complaint filed by wild earth guardian citizens is not part

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of the record and so if you agree to add item four, it will probably be necessary to also

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So add that document, which I believe is about 80 pages or so with exhibits.

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So Mr. Smith, do you have a position on this one?

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Mr. Aft is not a jack to we question the relevance of the document though.

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Danielson and Robbins?

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Yes, I just say we don't think this is relevant and we therefore would suggest not putting

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it in the record because we have to put all this other material in the record.

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We aren't going to say anything about it during the hearing.

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That's right.

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Mr. Chairman County Attorney Carolyn White again.

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Our reason for considering it necessary was our understanding that it was the intention of the council for the opponents to introduce that information.

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So if, in fact, they don't, then we would agree that it's not relevant and it's not necessary.

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If the wilder's guardian's complaint is referenced as part of the opposition to the application, then we would...

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reserve and request the opportunity to reiterate our suggestion that this document ought to be included in the record.

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Mr. Chair, if you may hear from Council Robbins.

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It's a case deferring to Mr. Danielson. You'll let me know if you're not.

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Mr. Chair, again, for the record and for the listening public, can you state the subject matter of the wilder guardians?

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It relates to its citizens' complaint that relates to the Office of Service Mining Reclamation

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and Enforcement, the federal process related to BLM, least with GCC.

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That's not overly elaborate, but if I may follow it, Mr. Chair,

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does it in any way relate

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to the use of the county road?

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I'm trying to remember. It does reference the

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Plata County in a few sections.

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Adam, do you recall?

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Does the wilder citizens complain

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reference the county road?

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Yes, it does.

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Yeah.

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Mr. Chairman, if I may.

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My, I believe it's appropriate to not accept this exhibit onto the record either.

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Wilder with Guardians, if they have a complaint, can be here today and make public comment

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or otherwise submit public comment and I've heard no party saying they support introduction

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over to this time as long as there's an opportunity to bring it up as what I'm going to call

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a bottle of evidence again. Is that correct? Fair characterization is white? Yes.

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Okay, so that would be my view on this is not to admit this into the record at this time.

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Thank you.

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Mr. Chair, I would support Commissioner Wessondorf's suggestion.

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Thank you.

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Hey, last round. There is a May 27, 2016 letter from Trump Peterson.

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Vice President, GCC Energy, the Daniel Murray, LePlatta County, Senior Planner,

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regarding GCC information on King 1.

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Once that letter was distributed, I did receive a response

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for a Mr. Danielson dated May 30th, 2016,

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regarding GCC King 1 discussing Mr. Peterson's letter

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of May 27 on King 1.

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If I may, if the board allows the letter for Mr. Peterson

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to become part of the record, then the letter for Mr. Danielson

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should be admitted as well.

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So, Mr. Smith, do you have a position on these?

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Mr. Smith, does object to the inclusion of these documents

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because they specifically contradict

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a proposed finding that would be funding number seven,

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which knows that this class delay needs permit

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for the King II coal mines specifically does not consider

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or include any land uses associated with King I coal mine?

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I believe both documents are in their entirety

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dealing with separate land use from county staff's position.

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Dr. Danielson's in Robins?

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Yes, we received Mr. Peterson's letter Friday evening after working hours.

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We don't object to it being part of the record as long as my reply of yesterday is also

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part of the record.

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Why?

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We agree with county staff that these are documents which are not relevant because it's for

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a separate land use.

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However, if that is an issue in the hearing today, which we understand that the opponents

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and time to make it, then we feel that both documents ought to be included.

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Brad, the rebuttal issue yet again.

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That's how it looks to me.

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Thank you.

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We'll wait for that time then.

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Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we're done.

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Thank you, Mr. Danjeson.

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I mean, sorry.

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Thank you.

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Please proceed.

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Thank you.

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Daniel Murray County Planning Department all introduced the county staff before I begin.

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June Davis is the Public Works Director, Damian Pruduto, is the Planning Department, Community

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Development Services Director, Adam Smith is the Assistant Accounting Attorney,

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I'll get

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underway.

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Do you mind switching the screens?

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Chairman Blake, very clearly outlined a format for today.

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I'll give you a quick overview of my presentation.

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I'll speak to background.

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are analysis areas of concern and as with most projects or all projects I will provide a recommendation.

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Our discussion today, our presentation will be both big picture as well as very detailed at times.

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So we're going to be transitioning between those lines of thinking.

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And I'm going to be doing all the presenting for the county so you get to hear me for the next hour or so.

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But I am assured that during Q&A you will hear from all of staff at some point.

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Just to give us some context, King II is in the western portion of the county.

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Zooming in further, it is in an area west of State Highway 140.

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It's behind Hespers Mountain.

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And I think one of the values of this slide, which we can return to, is the network of county roads.

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You see county road north 120 in green.

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You see county road 120 south, which cuts roughly halfway in this image.

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and then county road 1119, which travels all the way to county with 140 at the

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township of Klein.

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So this is an image of the king to site. It's in a drainage to

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hay gulch. It's roughly 26 acres, and there are 416 acres of below ground mining activity.

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And I'm going to elaborate on the below ground just a moment, but this is the aerial of the site.

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So, some brief history on this project. In 2006, the county determined that we did not have jurisdiction over the mine, given its location on state land board land.

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In 2010, that determination was reversed, and GCC was notified of the need for a Class II land use permit. In 2012, GCC submitted their application, and that has been the subject to review today.

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It's been referenced at previous meetings that there are roughly 43 technical studies.

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That number has only grown since the Planning Commission.

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These studies touch upon all aspects of the project.

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There have been six neighborhood meetings.

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There has been formation of various citizen groups.

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A abundant public notice and engagement with landowners.

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And seven Planning Commission meetings since the fall of 2014, and including one up until

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just a month ago.

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A pivotal moment in this process occurred at the March 3rd Planning Commission hearing, where

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the Planning Department's recommendation was for denial.

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This was based upon disagreement on several areas.

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One was the maximum number of trucks.

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At which time the phase road improvements would be completed.

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We can refer to that as the 80 versus 100.

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I think the conversation is now shifted to the 80 versus 55, but nevertheless the number

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of trucks was an outstanding item between the county and the applicant and that was the basis

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for our recommendation two months ago. Second was the absence of date specifics for road improvements.

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The applicant wanted the road improvements to be contingent upon actions of other agencies,

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specifically the BLM. Our recommendation was for those phases to be date specific and we have

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achieve that outcome.

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There are other items that we're outstanding at the time,

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such as word languages in terms of the RIA,

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which have all been addressed.

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Ultimately, the Planning Commission provided direction

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to staff and GCC to go and resolve these issues.

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The parties were a lot of two weeks for that discussion

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and to return to the Planning Commission on April 14th.

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We did successfully come to terms on the road improvement

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agreement, the RIA, at the April 14th hearing staff was able to report GCC's agreement

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to the 80 trucks, as well as those dates specific improvements.

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This does not altogether satisfy the public concerns which were heard in April and they

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will be heard again today.

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So the board, you're very familiar with the Class 2 Land Use Permit.

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I'm going to take a moment and explain what the road improvement agreement does, the RIA, and

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why we're utilizing that mechanism.

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GCC is an existing use, and therefore it's necessary to bring GCC into compliance with the

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land use code through a series of phases. These phases require road improvements with corresponding

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truck limits. Unlike other proposals where the development is only on paper when we approve

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it or act on it, GCC exists today and it is an operation today, and therefore the RIA is the

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Although the RI is a flexible tool when it comes to timing, we are upholding the standards

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of the land use code, specifically the road standards, those standards are being met.

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The only variation here, the only variable we have to work with is timing, because they

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are in fact in existing use, the timing, in this case, is not the norm.

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Distant with a typical project, I'm going to touch upon water sewer access and other elements

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On the left side of the screen, if going through my presentation on the right side, these are topics you would like to be addressed, we're happy to do so, but they are not slides specifically, waste water parking, hydrogeology, subsidence, as well as the 12 cents maintenance fee of the RIA, but I'm happy to elaborate on those and any other items that you have.

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So I'm using this slide again to actually orient us.

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This is the red square surrounding the state land board land.

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It's the 26 acres.

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It's much bigger, but 26 acres is what GCC occupies.

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So keep that image in mind.

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And I've intentionally put a very busy slide up in front of you

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to demonstrate that this is an example of the different jurisdictions

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at play. In red, you see the Colorado Division of Reclamation and Mining Safety, as it relates

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to King 1, on the southern portion of the road, and on the northern portion of 120, we see

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this is that same red square that's King 2. In blue, you see GCCs existing mining area, and that is

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the Office of Service Mining Reclamation and Enforcement is the blue outline, and then green

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is the Bureau of Land Management Area, which GCC is currently exploring lease modification.

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What's not shown here up to the north would be the 24 locations at which GCC is also doing

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exploratory boring. They are drilling to analyze the composition of the ground in any available

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call. If that exploration is successful, GCC will have to go through what's known as a

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least by application, which is a whole new need for process. The purpose of this slide

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is to focus us in terms of what we are discussing and what we're not discussing. Although the

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county does have cooperating agency status with the BLM relative to their lease modification,

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the areas in green, that is not the subject of today's review. We are not here to talk about

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or the need of a process.

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We are focused almost entirely on the surface impacts as it relates to this mind and the

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road.

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Areas where we have some overlapping review for below ground have to do with groundwater

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and vibration.

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Moving on to proof of water, as with all projects, the demand has been estimated by GCC to be roughly

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two and a half acre feet for domestic use, that's for employees, and dust suppression within

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the mine accounts for roughly 28 acre feet. So the total is 40 acre feet is what's been proposed

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as GCC water demand. Their supply comes from three sources. First being the Plata River

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diversion, that is not a water use that's being put to use by GCC. They do have that option,

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but it is a very junior right and it's not our understanding that they're actually such a...

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Ground water wells are also part of their – we're part of the proposal, however, they have not been constructed and therefore they have not been analyzed as part of the proof of water.

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The proof of water is coming from the Huntington Aglant Dryup.

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It is comprised of two different water rights.

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One is 11 acre feet in a 2007 water right and there is a additional 40 acre feet in

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a 2015 water right case which is pending water court.

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The total 44 acres of agland dry up and the substitute water supply plan because but GCC currently has secured to allow them to utilize these two water rights.

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Specifically, the 44 acre feet is the subject of the substitute water supply plan just this last February was approved.

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So the total water supply is 51 acres and those are of acre feet and those are the only approved water sources for this use.

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Delivery in storage is via the hay-gold ditch and the Huntington lateral.

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GCCC is currently constructing a new reservoir for roughly 40 acre feet of water.

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This is three and a half acres of surface area, 10 to 15 feet deep.

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It's a gravity fed system through a six inch pipe from the mesa down to King 2.

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This is probably as a good time as any to speak to Ag Dry Up,

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and concerns that may be associated with that.

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One document that we have is the Fort Lewis Mesa Planning Group,

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speaks to concerns with Ag Dry Up.

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And in that sense, I would also offer the alternatives.

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If they're not going to do Ag Drive, it would either be water hauling, which is not

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an accepted long-term option for the land use code or well-water.

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Well, water, GCC has chosen not to pursue because it was their understanding, I can't speak

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for GCC, but it was commented during the last year and a half that there was a lot of public

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and siren with drying down that much water from wells.

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So they elect to not choose to go that route

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and is utilizing the irrigation water.

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This is least water, so there's the potential

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that it could ultimately return back to.

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Ag irrigation use in the future.

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The currently use machine is drying upon that 51 acre feet

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as their proof of water.

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It is a water, it will be a water decreed water

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right through water court.

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Moving on to roads.

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This is an image that shows the current road.

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It's known to be a farm to market road.

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There is no mistaking that it is a substandard road

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for the 66.4-mile segment of County Road 120 North.

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As it exists today, it serves the general public,

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as well as GCC.

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Given GCC's impacts, they are required

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to improve the road to county standards.

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In 2014, GCC traffic accounted for approximately 99% of the loading on the road by weight and about 67% of the volume of the road.

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To mitigate these impacts, GCC has interim measures in place which all elaborate on until they fulfill their responsibility to improve the road to county standards.

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This includes watering of the road to suppress dust, as evident in this photo, as well as reduce speeds, shown on the right-hand side of the photo.

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Background traffic, 35, truck traffic, 25.

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Road standard, which the road will be improved, is typical for projects of this traffic

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count.

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That includes two 12-foot travel lanes, so a 24-foot wide road chaved, three-foot shoulders

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on either side.

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They can be gravel.

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This image here shows paved shoulders.

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It would be a 60-foot ride of way and the horizontal and vertical alignment would meet county

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road standards.

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that is essentially the tightness of the turns in your village down the road.

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Most of the road, it's an example of a road built to county standard and also in challenging

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terrain.

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I'm making a good time, so I might have been on a little, or we're going to spend the

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oak of our conversation today.

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This is a table that we created.

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It is the road improvement agreement schedule and the truck limits.

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I'm going to go line by line.

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What I've done is take, take in that same schedule and we've tried to do some color coordination here and show what the proposed

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Road improvement schedule looks like.

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Phase one would be temporary pavement adjacent to two residences on counter road 120.

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This is approximately one mile, it's shown in pink.

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It's just the line of pink.

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During this time, the truck limit would be 80 trucks, so that's 160 trips.

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We are, for the most part, we will refer to a number of trucks, but that number is

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electronically doubled when the truck goes in and leaves.

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There are two key aspects to phase one. First is dust mitigation.

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Our focus is on controlling dust.

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Contrary to what's been stated, the county is not avoiding dust monitoring due to its complexities.

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The fact of the matter is, it is a very complex matter, which is why there are

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dualing professional recommendations surrounding air quality modeling.

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But we believe in focusing on treating the dust, not monitoring the dust.

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Treatment includes paving the one-mile stretch to significantly reduce dust as the first

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road improvement.

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This is scheduled to occur in 2016, and it's been communicated to me that could occur

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as soon as June 1st.

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Another way of stating this is by the time that the modeling equipment is in place the

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road will be paved.

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The specifications for the road paving include geotechnical boring and grading, application of a 3-inch hot mix pavement, 24 feet wide, in the existing road alignment, you'll be striped as well, for the remaining 3-mile portion, so from the pink line to king 2.

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The road will remain gravel, however there are no residences on that portion of the road, and there will be continued application of water, as well as MagCloride as needed to manage dust.

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Visual monitoring and the application of water and items as MagCloride is an accepted practice of CDPHG air quality control commission.

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This application of the temporary paving is entirely different than the application in this

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past fall.

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That was known as recycled asphalt.

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It did not perform as intended due to the time of year, possibly even due to the application.

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But this treatment is a three inch layer of asphalt.

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It's my understanding that that can, as being designed to last up to a three-year period,

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although that's not its intended.

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life time. So it is a much higher standard than what was applied in the last fall.

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The second aspect of this first phase is the availability of buffering to two residences

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along the road. The wave engineering report documents the ability for a four to seven

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decibel reduction of noise after the introduction of a buffering wall. These buffering walls,

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the two of them would be located on private property and should a landowner wish to have that

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buffering wall constructed sooner. That is available to them. It can also be constructed to coincide

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with phase two, which I'll get to next.

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November 2017 is the conclusion of phase two. That is

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to permanently reconstruct the two-mile section here shown in blue. The temporary asphalt comes

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up, and the road will be reconstructed to county standards.

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That is a two-mile stretch from the bottom of the hill all the way to King 1.

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This improves the road adjacent to three residences.

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The potential for better alignment of Roberts Ridge Road, which serves additional properties

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up on higher points, improved line of sight, and turning movements

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at constrained corners such as Wilsey's corner.

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Phase 2 also includes the widening down here.

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This is a small section of blue.

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This area is known as the Narrows.

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We've targeted these areas as areas that specifically need improvements at a high priority.

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Phase 3, also 2017, next year, includes the reconstruction of the 90 degree corner.

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This would be for improved alignment and turning movements.

444
00:39:01,350 --> 00:39:03,370
It's about a two-tenths of a mile section of road.

445
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:10,770
So, once phases two and three are completed to full county standards, these are not temporary or interim,

446
00:39:11,310 --> 00:39:16,310
with the completion of those improvements, seven out of eight constrained areas on this road

447
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:18,850
will have been improved to county standards.

448
00:39:20,030 --> 00:39:24,450
At that time, the GCC would be allowed to increase up to 100 trucks per day.

449
00:39:30,030 --> 00:39:36,070
The question has been raised, why not limit any increase in trucks until all the improvements are made?

450
00:39:36,970 --> 00:39:40,110
And the RRA is a significant commitment for GCC.

451
00:39:41,050 --> 00:39:43,690
This schedule demonstrates compliance with the land use code.

452
00:39:44,370 --> 00:39:48,350
It's reasonable to allow an increase of trucks proportional to the road improvements.

453
00:39:49,350 --> 00:39:51,170
Furthermore, it's an incentive-based schedule.

454
00:39:51,450 --> 00:39:56,730
If GCC wants to achieve the higher number of trucks, the 120, they can expedite this schedule to do that.

455
00:39:58,250 --> 00:40:01,590
The question has also been raised, why is there a gap in 2018?

456
00:40:02,330 --> 00:40:08,210
Why not require all the improvements be done sooner even as soon as 2020? Could it technically

457
00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:13,110
be done faster possibly? However, the county believes this is a reasonable time frame

458
00:40:13,110 --> 00:40:19,630
to bring an existing use into compliance. I'll also note what is perceived to be a gap in

459
00:40:19,630 --> 00:40:26,090
2018 is actually an accomplishment because if you recall there was significant impacts between

460
00:40:26,090 --> 00:40:33,790
the county in GCC. And what was offered by GCC was to move phase 3 up to 2017. That was

461
00:40:33,790 --> 00:40:41,610
originally parked in 2018. But in order to achieve this agreement, they offered to move

462
00:40:41,610 --> 00:40:46,550
that phase up. And as I state, that is a highly constrained corner and a high priority

463
00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:47,210
for improvement.

464
00:40:51,690 --> 00:40:58,010
Phase 4. By the end of 2020, this includes full reconstruction, full depth

465
00:40:58,010 --> 00:41:04,390
reconstruction as is known for the first 2.3 miles, and that's this area here, a shade

466
00:41:04,390 --> 00:41:12,490
of red, depending on what's mean. This would be the full length of the road that is paved

467
00:41:12,490 --> 00:41:16,070
today minus the 90 degree corner because that would have already been improved the year before

468
00:41:16,070 --> 00:41:20,550
two years before, and the truck limit during this time would be 100 trucks.

469
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:25,140
Final phase to be

470
00:41:25,140 --> 00:41:29,880
completed by 2022, results in the widening and regrating and paving of the last two miles

471
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:30,900
shown in green.

472
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,520
Upon completion, the mind can achieve an average of 120 trucks,

473
00:41:34,980 --> 00:41:36,620
that's 240 ADT.

474
00:41:37,980 --> 00:41:40,640
Truck limits are monthly averages, and with all stages,

475
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,060
there's a 20% allowance to increase trucks to account for weather.

476
00:41:44,460 --> 00:41:46,400
So there will be higher days, there'll be lower days,

477
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:49,860
on average they have to equal either the 80 to the 100 or the 120.

478
00:41:51,540 --> 00:41:54,000
It's also based on a six-day week, no hauling on Sundays.

479
00:41:58,330 --> 00:42:01,450
I'm going to move on, but I'm happy to return to this slide

480
00:42:01,450 --> 00:42:03,690
in any of these if you have questions about the phasing.

481
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,860
So with respect to compatibility, there are six criteria in which we evaluate four of which

482
00:42:10,860 --> 00:42:15,220
applies specifically to the importance of these date specifics for the road improvements.

483
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:21,800
Traffic will not create a safety hazard criterion A. The road is substandard with respect to

484
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,920
with and surface in alignment that's been explained even and shown visually with the slides.

485
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,060
These road standards are very prescriptive. They are intended to achieve safety.

486
00:42:32,060 --> 00:42:37,380
This is also a compatibility criteria, with dates specific road improvements and corresponding

487
00:42:37,380 --> 00:42:42,880
truck limits, the project now satisfies not only the road standards, but our compatibility

488
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:44,120
standard for safety.

489
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:50,040
Criterion B, the development will not have a negative impact on neighbors.

490
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:58,120
Similarly, having put forth known dates, the satisfies two areas, because back to the ability

491
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:06,220
to mitigate dust in a very timely manner on the 3.9-mile section of gravel, as I mentioned

492
00:43:06,220 --> 00:43:08,140
the best remedy for dust is to pave it.

493
00:43:09,180 --> 00:43:13,820
We now have certainty as to when those improvements will occur, including the summer and

494
00:43:13,820 --> 00:43:14,700
the subsequent phases.

495
00:43:15,420 --> 00:43:16,680
Secondly, noise.

496
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,480
The paved road cuts down on noise that's evident in the consultant reports.

497
00:43:21,240 --> 00:43:25,880
This is a primary quality of life issue and can occur on a timely and now predictable basis.

498
00:43:27,060 --> 00:43:33,040
There is a condition that road noise will not exceed 86 decibels as measured 50 feet from the edge of the road.

499
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:42,000
And that is in reference to what we have been able to draw from state statutes as a noise level.

500
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:49,620
Criterion C and F, I'll speak together and that's to protect views as well as privacy.

501
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:56,020
The road improvement schedule that I just walk through, it does include the ability for noise

502
00:43:56,020 --> 00:43:58,720
and visual buffering to be introduced at two residences.

503
00:43:59,540 --> 00:44:04,360
This is a key component of compatibility and what's changed since March is that we now

504
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:10,100
know the exact date at which those improvements will begin and they're going to be available

505
00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:12,180
up until and through phase five.

506
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:17,440
So a landowner can elect to have that buffering wall introduced sooner or later.

507
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:23,560
Criterion E, with respect to character of the neighborhood, mining has existed in the

508
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:28,320
haygulch since 1941, clearly in established use and part of the area.

509
00:44:29,140 --> 00:44:33,800
At the same time, the current use is at a scale not seen before, and the objective of this

510
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,880
land use permit is to mitigate those impacts.

511
00:44:37,260 --> 00:44:39,720
These mitigation measures are intended to achieve compatibility.

512
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:45,840
These include the reduction of speed, as I've mentioned, for safety, that the trucks will

513
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:52,080
Monday through Saturday, the 80% of trucking will occur between daylight hours, 6 am to 10 pm

514
00:44:52,660 --> 00:44:56,140
to allow our reprieve at night and they'll be no hauling on Sundays.

515
00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,040
We now achieved an agreement.

516
00:45:00,110 --> 00:45:04,990
Upon the schedule of road improvements and the mitigation measures which enable the determination of compatibility.

517
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:18,640
One criteria I didn't get to was D and that was protection of groundwater. This will be a requirement. It is also a requirement of CDR on S.

518
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:29,280
And given this overlap between county and the state, the county is referring to state regulations and the monitoring of groundwater impacts through what's known as technical revision 26.

519
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:39,220
That is, a document that the state is currently reviewing and speaks to the water quality or groundwater monitoring plan.

520
00:45:40,340 --> 00:45:46,180
A summary of this monitoring plan includes four groundwater monitoring locations and there's three wells at each location.

521
00:45:47,140 --> 00:45:57,220
The well clusters consist of one well drilled in the manifold formation, above the coal seam, one well drilled into the coal seam and one drilled below the coal seam.

522
00:45:57,220 --> 00:46:04,460
The monitoring will collect data for a full set of analysts, both upstream and downstream of the mind.

523
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:12,040
Today, the hydrologic studies have concluded that there are no linkages between the mining activity and groundwater pollution.

524
00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:16,820
Nevertheless, monitoring will continue as regulated by CDRMS.

525
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:23,840
Should the board have additional concerns on groundwater monitoring, or the hydrologic conditions,

526
00:46:24,820 --> 00:46:30,760
The consultants are here to speak to that matter in more detail.

527
00:46:35,070 --> 00:46:40,770
Arguably the most debated portion of the project, and that is the truck limits on the road.

528
00:46:42,190 --> 00:46:44,810
So a couple of clarifications before I get into this.

529
00:46:45,010 --> 00:46:48,370
This is GCC's chosen route to use the Northern 120.

530
00:46:48,970 --> 00:46:55,570
Should GCC have or decide in the future to put forth an alternative road, such as a hall road, or even a loop route,

531
00:46:55,570 --> 00:47:00,990
we would revisit these numbers, that would be a major amendment to the project.

532
00:47:02,090 --> 00:47:06,230
But we are basing our analysis based on what GCC has chosen as their route.

533
00:47:07,170 --> 00:47:14,530
Second, these are trucks, as I mentioned, and they are based on a monthly average with a 20% maximum.

534
00:47:15,530 --> 00:47:17,450
So I'm going to begin by looking at the 120.

535
00:47:17,810 --> 00:47:21,930
That's the upper limit. Once all road improvements are completed and worked down to the 180.

536
00:47:21,930 --> 00:47:22,790
in the 80.

537
00:47:24,070 --> 00:47:26,730
I'm going to lay out the factors that we use to arrive with these numbers.

538
00:47:27,890 --> 00:47:29,270
Why we support the 120.

539
00:47:29,790 --> 00:47:31,550
Here you see data points on the left.

540
00:47:32,310 --> 00:47:39,930
2006, GCC was at 55 trucks, 2010-59 and so on, that number increased up until 2014-15

541
00:47:39,930 --> 00:47:41,690
around 94 trucks, average.

542
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:48,520
These proposal, originally on the right side of your screen, was for 156.

543
00:47:48,900 --> 00:47:51,280
So now we see our spectrum being framed out for us.

544
00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:54,400
Fortunately, the 156 is actually off the table.

545
00:47:54,840 --> 00:48:00,700
That is not GCC's proposal, although it was what we use to arrive at our conclusion, our recommendation.

546
00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:05,060
The next data point I'll introduce would be the 100.

547
00:48:05,820 --> 00:48:12,120
This is the number that's been recommended by the North 120 group as the long-term level.

548
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:20,320
The hay gulch, citizen advisory panel, cap, as it's known, recommends 144 as the long-term

549
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:20,700
max.

550
00:48:22,460 --> 00:48:28,480
GCC's 2012 proposal, as we received it originally, was for 120.

551
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:33,500
This was the original number, and this is the number that we remain at in terms of what

552
00:48:33,500 --> 00:48:36,620
is an appropriate long-term level of trucks.

553
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,880
We remain consistent with that number from throughout the entire process.

554
00:48:44,260 --> 00:48:49,940
The road, once improved, can accommodate this volume of truck safely with respect to the road standards.

555
00:48:50,620 --> 00:48:55,660
To say that differently is, is the road will be engineered to accommodate the road,

556
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:57,560
this number of trucks, and the answer is yes.

557
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,120
The number keeps a balance of an industrial use in a rural setting.

558
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,660
Both uses have existed historically.

559
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,720
Two last points with respect to the 120.

560
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:11,200
This is allowed once all road improvements are in place.

561
00:49:11,660 --> 00:49:16,840
So that means issues of dust, the 90 degree corner, the narrow lines of sight have all been resolved.

562
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,260
And the 120 must be considered in the context of all mitigation measures.

563
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:24,180
I've touched upon them before, but I'll just recap.

564
00:49:24,660 --> 00:49:30,240
No hauling on Sundays, 20% daily limit, 8% of the trucks during 6am to 10pm.

565
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:38,440
The noise limitation of 86 decibels speed limit of 25 and 35 on the respective surface of gravel and pavement

566
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,400
10 mile an hour at residences where there is currently gravel

567
00:49:43,180 --> 00:49:49,400
Engine mufflering on all vehicles a direct dial phone number for unsafe driving. It's posted on the back of

568
00:49:50,380 --> 00:49:54,320
All vehicle numbers are posted on the back so to allow there to be easy reporting

569
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,140
There is continued dust suppression

570
00:49:58,020 --> 00:50:03,960
And there are other improvements that will be made through the course of the phase road improvements.

571
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:12,910
As I mentioned, no stopping along the roadway to ensure conflict between.

572
00:50:14,530 --> 00:50:20,430
Given the compatibility standards, this is what the planning staff determines to be an appropriate maximum level of trucks.

573
00:50:22,030 --> 00:50:25,710
So now, why is 80 so important?

574
00:50:26,590 --> 00:50:27,850
This is the lower number.

575
00:50:28,570 --> 00:50:33,110
This number is lower than both the 2015 and GCC's 2016 levels.

576
00:50:33,830 --> 00:50:36,390
So it does represent a scaling back of existing operations.

577
00:50:37,550 --> 00:50:40,870
Keep in mind, even as of March, early March,

578
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:43,730
GCC was adamant that the numbers should be 100.

579
00:50:44,610 --> 00:50:48,190
The county did not agree and that was the basis of our denial of time.

580
00:50:49,050 --> 00:50:56,010
Holding at 80 until phases one, two and three are complete as I said addresses seven out of eight constrained areas on the road.

581
00:50:56,510 --> 00:51:00,070
That is the 90-degree corner, that's pavement at three residences,

582
00:51:00,590 --> 00:51:03,370
Wilty's barn and the Narrows, two blind corners.

583
00:51:04,470 --> 00:51:09,330
All of this combined with metamate is combined with mitigation measures I just mentioned.

584
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:15,110
The county arrived at 80 trucks as a baseline from 2013.

585
00:51:15,770 --> 00:51:22,130
This is the point that we recommend the project returned to until the phases 1, 2, and 3 are complete.

586
00:51:23,350 --> 00:51:26,310
This is derived at based upon the planning process itself.

587
00:51:27,110 --> 00:51:30,250
In 2014, the planning process changed significantly.

588
00:51:31,490 --> 00:51:34,690
This is evident by the level of public engagement which ensued.

589
00:51:36,890 --> 00:51:41,350
During the course of dialogue, it was expressed that a year ago was tolerable.

590
00:51:41,350 --> 00:51:52,310
Therefore, the logical baseline is the period before 2014 to return to 2013 where there are approximately 80 trucks and use that is the baseline.

591
00:51:53,730 --> 00:51:58,410
Looking at this a different way, let's compare 80 to 55 as proposed by others.

592
00:51:59,310 --> 00:52:02,550
I would like to offer that 55 also correlates to a point in time.

593
00:52:02,770 --> 00:52:05,050
It's no different than our identification of a point in time.

594
00:52:05,050 --> 00:52:10,850
We've identified 80, which is 2013, based on what the record shows occurred in 2014.

595
00:52:11,930 --> 00:52:15,950
This is very clearly in 2014, a change in the planning process.

596
00:52:16,650 --> 00:52:20,270
It's arguably where the scales of compatibility tipped.

597
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:24,470
The county recommends going back to the level before that change occurred.

598
00:52:26,730 --> 00:52:28,590
This has been a four year planning process.

599
00:52:29,490 --> 00:52:32,570
The past two years are quite different than the first two years.

600
00:52:32,570 --> 00:52:41,910
That distinction, that change that occurred in 2014 has informed our recommendation, and that is why we recommend the baseline of 2013.

601
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:48,720
The second component of the 80 is analysis of safety.

602
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:54,400
The public works director has concluded the road is safe at this level, with the mitigation measures in place.

603
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,660
This is a memo 50 attachment number 58 in your packet.

604
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:05,120
The county and the public via their consultant are also evaluating the same data we are.

605
00:53:05,420 --> 00:53:10,500
We're looking at the same substandard road analyzing the same accident data.

606
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:13,760
The result is two different interpretations of that data.

607
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:17,800
The same factual basis exists for 80 as it does 55.

608
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:26,860
Once we've established the 120 in the 80, it's actually just a very logical middle point for the 100.

609
00:53:26,860 --> 00:53:29,780
There's actually not much more science to the 100 than that.

610
00:53:30,020 --> 00:53:37,160
It is the point in between the phases and it's a point in which GCC can increase trucks

611
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:38,760
proportionate to road improvements.

612
00:53:41,020 --> 00:53:44,820
So keep in mind, GCC does control the timing of these road improvements and if they want

613
00:53:44,820 --> 00:53:48,960
to advance a phase, they can achieve that through expediting road improvements.

614
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:56,220
In conclusion, the road improvement agreement now includes GCC's agreement to these limits

615
00:53:56,220 --> 00:53:59,000
that correspond with phased road improvements.

616
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,260
The project is considered to meet the standards for compatibility,

617
00:54:04,970 --> 00:54:06,230
not concluding.

618
00:54:08,410 --> 00:54:11,490
Getting close though, so what I'm going to do actually is wrap up

619
00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:15,450
in the last two slides, talking about areas of concern.

620
00:54:15,650 --> 00:54:18,830
These are areas I suspect that we're going to revisit during the course of this hearing.

621
00:54:19,650 --> 00:54:21,890
The first one being final road design.

622
00:54:22,630 --> 00:54:27,010
What we have in the file in your packet is a conceptual level of plans.

623
00:54:27,010 --> 00:54:32,130
The county engineer has determined that the road is feasible, and that is that it can be built.

624
00:54:33,290 --> 00:54:38,690
The county does not recommend waiting six months or more to develop preliminary plans,

625
00:54:38,930 --> 00:54:42,790
or go out and secure right away for the entire 6.4 mile length of road.

626
00:54:44,190 --> 00:54:46,730
Our recommendation is due to the fact that the mind is existing.

627
00:54:47,850 --> 00:54:52,930
The county, the public, and GCC are all better served if there is a land use permit in place,

628
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:54,770
in which we can regulate this use.

629
00:54:54,770 --> 00:54:57,470
That is what we are missing at this time.

630
00:54:57,830 --> 00:55:01,190
It creates clarity, creates predictability,

631
00:55:03,430 --> 00:55:04,690
except in this case,

632
00:55:09,220 --> 00:55:10,280
a second area of concern

633
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,500
would be the use of condemnation for right-of-way.

634
00:55:13,420 --> 00:55:14,780
There are several points to make.

635
00:55:15,500 --> 00:55:17,380
First is that this is the last option.

636
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,220
Once good-faith negotiations are unsuccessful,

637
00:55:21,940 --> 00:55:24,540
then right-of-way condemnation for some supply.

638
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:37,860
Second, the RIA captures compliance with the Uniform Act.

639
00:55:37,860 --> 00:55:42,460
requires compliance with the Uniform Act, which is above and beyond the county's code.

640
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:47,340
This will be substantial. There will be substantial discussions with the property owners,

641
00:55:47,940 --> 00:55:54,040
and we are providing the highest level of support for property owners through the application of the Uniform Act.

642
00:55:55,020 --> 00:55:58,820
The Uniform Act ensures that due process rights are protected.

643
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:06,540
Third, we, the county, planning, staff, do not earn public works, do not take condemnation lightly.

644
00:56:06,540 --> 00:56:19,280
The county has only used condemnation once in the last 20 years, but when you have a project that must make road improvements in order to satisfy the code, you have to ensure there is a mechanism to achieve the necessary right of way.

645
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:28,980
To put it differently, without the option for condemnation, there is no way to guarantee the road can be built to county standards, and therefore they would not be in compliance with their land use.

646
00:56:30,970 --> 00:56:43,150
Moving on, the buffering design, as I mentioned, the engineering reports documents the merit of buffering along the road, this is available to landowners immediately.

647
00:56:44,590 --> 00:56:52,070
Provided there is a land use permit GCC is prepared to work with landowners with their consent to introduce these buffering improvements.

648
00:56:52,730 --> 00:56:56,930
The design will be based upon professional engineering as well as landscape architect recommendations.

649
00:56:57,450 --> 00:57:02,110
We're not trying to shift the burden to the landowner in terms of what the final design should be.

650
00:57:02,930 --> 00:57:07,530
Determing the adequacy of mitigation measures is a key function of the planning department.

651
00:57:08,510 --> 00:57:13,350
And since the planning commission in April, we've actually introduced a new condition,

652
00:57:14,510 --> 00:57:21,210
number 22, that allows the county to retain a third party, so not GCC and not the county,

653
00:57:21,210 --> 00:57:25,430
but a third party to comment on the adequacy

654
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:29,130
and efficacy of the buffering plan that would be at GCC's expense.

655
00:57:32,220 --> 00:57:34,400
Second, or fourth, how should I say?

656
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,260
Looking at routing traffic to the south.

657
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:42,600
This has been analyzed both in a short and long-term perspective.

658
00:57:43,660 --> 00:57:46,720
GCC is going to speak to the analysis of all the options

659
00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:50,000
of which the southern roads were analyzed.

660
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:52,320
The county has also analyzed that option.

661
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:57,760
And we've concluded that the southern route is not the preferred long-term or even short-term option.

662
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,320
This is due to the density of affected residences.

663
00:58:02,020 --> 00:58:05,600
There are roughly 20 driveways along the northern route,

664
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:07,900
70 driveways along the southern route.

665
00:58:08,540 --> 00:58:11,940
If you were to choose a loop route now you're impacting 90 driveways.

666
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,920
There are also five intersections along the southern road.

667
00:58:16,140 --> 00:58:18,480
There are no intersections on Canada Road 120 North.

668
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:24,680
There's an even steeper grade than the hill at which has already been granted variants.

669
00:58:25,380 --> 00:58:30,980
And the Southern Route is a school bus route. Combined with fire department comments, our recommendation

670
00:58:31,660 --> 00:58:37,640
and conclusion is that the Southern Route is not advantageous and the Northern Route is preferred.

671
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:44,720
If there's consideration to do this in a short term, we've also analyzed it and come to the same conclusion.

672
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:51,660
it's not desired for whole, whole trucks, but we have introduced a new condition since the planning

673
00:58:51,660 --> 00:58:57,220
commission that would require employees to be routed to the South during construction. So

674
00:58:57,220 --> 00:59:04,540
it does remove some of the traffic loading on the road during the construction phases. There's

675
00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:09,140
a certain fairness to sending trucks to the South that is acknowledged, but the concept

676
00:59:09,140 --> 00:59:14,300
of concentrating impacts is an established planning principle. One that's also embedded in

677
00:59:14,300 --> 00:59:22,020
land you go to international gas regulations. For example, when drilling, it is required to concentrate

678
00:59:22,020 --> 00:59:27,300
up to four wells per section, rather than disperse them and build different roads and disperse

679
00:59:27,300 --> 00:59:32,440
the impacts. The rationale of being when you concentrate impacts, you can also have concentrated

680
00:59:32,440 --> 00:59:33,100
improvements.

681
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:42,460
Moving on, instruction impacts. There will be impacts during construction. It is

682
00:59:42,460 --> 00:59:47,500
that there will be coal hauling as well as road construction occurring at the same time.

683
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:49,020
This has to be managed.

684
00:59:50,060 --> 00:59:54,420
We're open to ideas on how to do that, such as riding employees to the south.

685
00:59:55,300 --> 00:59:59,960
There will be, and there is a condition for the construction traffic control.

686
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,160
Full plans to be approved by the public works director to ensure that the most is being done.

687
01:00:06,380 --> 01:00:11,780
Second to last item is discussion of King 1, and it's disposal of rock from King 2.

688
01:00:12,540 --> 01:00:14,940
The question is, why are we not considering King 1?

689
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:23,860
The land use code permits are specific to a location, it is very clear. King 1 is a separate land use permit regardless.

690
01:00:24,700 --> 01:00:30,320
This permitting process for King 2 is not intended to address waste material on another piece of property.

691
01:00:31,260 --> 01:00:35,120
Doing so would be inconsistent with the land use code and is beyond our current scope.

692
01:00:36,140 --> 01:00:43,500
That said, we put forth a finding that clearly clarifies that King 1 is not part of King 2, this land use permit.

693
01:00:44,180 --> 01:00:52,420
There's also a proposed condition that requires DCC to report the nature of what is occurring at the King 1 site.

694
01:00:52,420 --> 01:00:54,360
I'm sorry, yes, keen to say.

695
01:00:55,600 --> 01:01:01,960
The ability for a cease and cease disorder or establishment of a deadline to submit this forthcoming

696
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,220
class two lanes permit for King one, it all exists.

697
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:07,040
We do not need to condition that.

698
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:08,660
That is a code enforcement action.

699
01:01:08,940 --> 01:01:13,960
We have all the ability to address that concern through a separate lane use permit.

700
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:19,640
The concerns about toxicity and water quality monitoring, we're not minimizing any of that,

701
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:25,680
But we are recognizing that needs to be addressed in a different land use permit with a corresponding public process.

702
01:01:27,460 --> 01:01:32,600
And lastly, the emergency response plan, I would actually offer to you that since the Planning Commission,

703
01:01:32,820 --> 01:01:38,760
and since the publication of the staff report, we have a new condition and additional condition number 29,

704
01:01:39,660 --> 01:01:45,640
in which the parties, GCC, the county and our EMS entities, as well as the public,

705
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:49,460
convene meeting to discuss the emergency response plan.

706
01:01:50,100 --> 01:01:56,400
This was one of the seven items that has been revised since the planning commission, however,

707
01:01:56,580 --> 01:01:57,940
not to the satisfaction of the public.

708
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:03,860
And so we have introduced, if the Board so chooses, we can put forth a new mission that

709
01:02:03,860 --> 01:02:07,860
requires the parties to convene a meeting and continue to refine the emergency response plan.

710
01:02:15,090 --> 01:02:16,290
So now I look at good.

711
01:02:18,140 --> 01:02:21,120
Compliance with the land use code is both quantitative and qualitative.

712
01:02:21,120 --> 01:02:26,060
And one hand, you have prescribed standards, for example, the road.

713
01:02:27,060 --> 01:02:28,520
XADT equals x standards.

714
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:31,280
And this proposal meets those specifications.

715
01:02:32,720 --> 01:02:37,360
We also have qualitative standards in evaluating if a use is considered to be compatible.

716
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,460
In this case, the main question is, what is an appropriate number of trucks?

717
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:44,160
This is not prescribed.

718
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:47,440
If it were easy enough for an engineer to look at our code and say,

719
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:52,400
This number of trucks, this is what you should do, and that's not how it works.

720
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,220
We know what standard to build the road.

721
01:02:54,660 --> 01:03:00,620
However, the planning process has vetted what we feel is the appropriate number of trucks.

722
01:03:01,340 --> 01:03:05,200
This process has unfolded over the last four years, inclusive of today.

723
01:03:06,540 --> 01:03:10,380
In March of this year, there was no agreement on the terms of the RRA,

724
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:14,560
due to differences on those truck limits and the absence of day specific road improvements.

725
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:17,620
at that time, the county was compelled to recommend denial.

726
01:03:18,420 --> 01:03:21,020
Now, having achieved agreement on base-specific road improvements,

727
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,640
the corresponding truck limits, and the host of mitigation measures,

728
01:03:25,140 --> 01:03:27,700
the project has been determined to be a complaint with the county code.

729
01:03:28,980 --> 01:03:32,420
That was the basis of the planning commission's recommendations for approval.

730
01:03:34,220 --> 01:03:37,180
Similarly, that was the basis of the planning commission's recommendation for approval.

731
01:03:37,820 --> 01:03:43,380
And similarly, we recommend the board also approve of the project based on the findings and commissions in the staff report.

732
01:03:46,730 --> 01:03:47,250
Can

733
01:03:49,970 --> 01:03:50,250
I

734
01:03:53,030 --> 01:04:02,150
have a question for you, Mr. Murray, with a staff like the, we've established the record,

735
01:04:02,650 --> 01:04:08,370
but we typically have a, you typically request that, how we adequately established a record of your

736
01:04:08,370 --> 01:04:09,850
for your findings and conditions?

737
01:04:11,350 --> 01:04:13,150
Probably feel the need.

738
01:04:13,510 --> 01:04:14,270
Bring materials on.

739
01:04:15,250 --> 01:04:16,930
Well, I believe we did that at the beginning.

740
01:04:17,710 --> 01:04:18,130
I

741
01:04:21,780 --> 01:04:23,420
expect a lot of these questions,

742
01:04:30,380 --> 01:04:34,720
and I can scroll through any of these slides if it helps.

743
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:37,360
Thank you, Mr. Murray.

744
01:04:40,420 --> 01:04:42,300
Questions for staff?

745
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:49,400
I'll jump in there.

746
01:04:51,900 --> 01:04:52,980
I've got a lot of questions.

747
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,520
Some are clarification, some you've answered,

748
01:05:00,140 --> 01:05:03,840
but some of these will be pretty focused.

749
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:12,000
But on your staff report talks about GCC agreement to monitor subsidence, though that's not required.

750
01:05:12,780 --> 01:05:14,180
Is that true?

751
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:16,480
It's correct.

752
01:05:17,220 --> 01:05:18,100
The annual rate for the record.

753
01:05:18,460 --> 01:05:21,960
It's being addressed in two ways when it comes to monitoring.

754
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:29,540
And that is through the ground water levels, which was a recommendation of one of our consultants.

755
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:33,040
So ground water levels that the TR26 I mentioned will be reported.

756
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:43,600
And it also be a compliance with the CDRMS regulations for surveyed monuments.

757
01:05:44,580 --> 01:05:51,000
What is included is essentially a blanket condition in which GCC needs to comply with CDRMS

758
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:57,440
regulations at a greater distance to ensure that subsidence doesn't occur as it do to

759
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:07,680
of the mining. And so the GCC is not required to do it under DRMS requirements, but for

760
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:16,380
purposes of compatibility and mitigating impacts, that's what the thousand feet was introduced

761
01:06:16,380 --> 01:06:24,400
by the Vista de Oral subdivision. CDR MS requires only a 300 foot distance and GCC can speak

762
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:26,720
to the subtleties of this.

763
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:32,540
That's measured horizontally when mining activity occurs below ground.

764
01:06:32,760 --> 01:06:34,640
Ultimately, it often resulted

765
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:38,600
at 600 foot distance because it occurs horizontally diagonally.

766
01:06:39,460 --> 01:06:42,340
So 600 feet would have been one initial threshold.

767
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:46,400
GCC has agreed to honor the same 1000 foot recommendation

768
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,240
of the Vistador group to apply CDRMS standards

769
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:52,500
to that much higher of a setback distance.

770
01:06:53,020 --> 01:07:10,980
Okay, then I guess I don't ask the county attorney to help me make this record correct, but I want to make sure that it's clear that thousand feet is tied to compatibility and it's not voluntarily being done by GCC.

771
01:07:11,700 --> 01:07:17,220
I'm a Smith County attorney's office, that is correct, because of compatibility concerns

772
01:07:17,220 --> 01:07:23,720
where basically piggybacking CDRMS regulations, applying those regulations to dwell in

773
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,960
units all the way out to a thousand feet instead of CDRMS's lower standard.

774
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:29,710
Thank you.

775
01:07:30,420 --> 01:07:36,160
I want to talk about noise a little bit, that we got certainly got different types of noise

776
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:40,180
information in the reports and different recommended standards.

777
01:07:40,760 --> 01:07:46,280
It sounds like from the county's perspective, 86 decibels, 50 feet from the road is the

778
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:48,300
one we're operating off of.

779
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:49,100
Is that correct?

780
01:07:49,620 --> 01:07:52,120
That is the condition in the recommended condition.

781
01:07:52,620 --> 01:07:58,060
So from a compatibility standpoint, 86 decibels, my understanding is when you're not being

782
01:07:58,060 --> 01:07:59,440
injured by the sound.

783
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:04,920
Is that, is there a sound person I should hold off on this question with?

784
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:11,460
Certainly is and so what we go ahead. I'll go ahead and get it. I'll tell you what my concern is

785
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:21,640
If 86 decibels is the measure from when damage occurs. I don't think that's the right measure for someone's home

786
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:22,920
so

787
01:08:23,780 --> 01:08:29,260
There are other things the HUD standard of 50 decibels and they're a company and things about average

788
01:08:29,860 --> 01:08:33,260
Daytime averages and all these things that are way outside of my league

789
01:08:33,260 --> 01:08:43,460
But just from my own observations and kind of looking at comparative scales of noise and so on,

790
01:08:44,180 --> 01:08:47,660
I can't imagine that 86 is the definition of compatible.

791
01:08:49,320 --> 01:09:01,200
So I'm interested down the line of hearing from people about that issue as what level of decibels is a compatible, is compatible for residential exposure.

792
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:07,620
Similarly, on the buffering plan, this is a more general question, but both the buffering

793
01:09:07,620 --> 01:09:11,600
and the dust and maybe other things had to do with modeling.

794
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,700
What happens at the modeling wasn't right.

795
01:09:16,260 --> 01:09:22,780
We put in place conditions that say, hey, if you do this type of buffering, you have

796
01:09:22,780 --> 01:09:27,720
implied, but in the end, it seemed to me reading the different reports that buffering,

797
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:42,420
there's some variation or some range of error, so to speak, in predicting what the buffering

798
01:09:42,420 --> 01:09:48,980
would do, or what the error quality, or what the dust mitigation, how it would occur.

799
01:09:48,980 --> 01:09:54,780
So what happens if we miss and it turns out that gosh, we thought this would work, but it

800
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:56,640
didn't.

801
01:09:56,980 --> 01:10:02,580
Commissioner Damien Paduto, I just wanted to reference that number one, the applicants

802
01:10:02,580 --> 01:10:10,020
professional wave engineering which performed a thorough analysis on this will be communicating

803
01:10:10,020 --> 01:10:15,980
I'm presuming for the applicant, but the county also hired a professional to evaluate that study

804
01:10:15,980 --> 01:10:26,040
and those models, a moaning martin was the county's professional who we hired specialist and that

805
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:30,560
report is also connected and they concurred with the wave engineering report analysis.

806
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:37,240
And I hope I know that doesn't directly answer all the details of your question, but it should

807
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,140
address the modeling concern.

808
01:11:13,310 --> 01:11:14,510
Thank you.

809
01:11:18,420 --> 01:11:22,840
And has everything been done with respect to the, there were some outstanding issues that

810
01:11:22,840 --> 01:11:29,820
GCC was required to do between the BOC, the planning commission meeting and our meeting

811
01:11:29,820 --> 01:11:31,920
today have all of those been done.

812
01:11:34,250 --> 01:11:35,010
Mike is working.

813
01:11:35,950 --> 01:11:40,670
So there were seven conditions that the applicant needed to satisfy before the board today.

814
01:11:40,670 --> 01:11:44,790
And yes, those items have been reviewed and determined to be compliant.

815
01:11:45,630 --> 01:11:51,190
Nevertheless, three items, which I'll explain, still carry over as conditions.

816
01:11:52,030 --> 01:11:56,890
For example, we introduced the third party consultant option for the buffering wall.

817
01:11:57,250 --> 01:12:02,030
That was a new development from one of those prior to BOSCCs.

818
01:12:02,030 --> 01:12:06,550
The emergency response plan, I mentioned we there's a new condition there.

819
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:15,190
So, although we received information on the emergency response plan, it didn't satisfy entirely the public concerns, and so that one carried over.

820
01:12:15,930 --> 01:12:18,550
And then another example is San Juan Basin Health.

821
01:12:19,310 --> 01:12:24,130
They have provided an update as to the status of how they're improving their wastewater treatment,

822
01:12:25,110 --> 01:12:30,030
but there's also a condition that carries over that they need to continue to be in compliance with San Juan Basin Health Standards.

823
01:12:31,980 --> 01:12:44,640
Is there a general condition that might have been stuck in different places but they be compliant with all their permits whether it's DRMS or with BLM or other regulatory bodies?

824
01:12:47,380 --> 01:12:48,800
I'm Smith County Attorney's Office.

825
01:12:49,760 --> 01:12:59,920
No, there is not a condition that is requiring compliance with the hierarchy, the other layers of permits that the GCC is required to obtain.

826
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:07,180
We are trusting those other agencies to enforce and determine when GCC may or may not be in compliance with their own permits.

827
01:13:09,180 --> 01:13:09,320
Okay.

828
01:13:10,540 --> 01:13:12,680
That might be a point of discussion later.

829
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:19,080
There are other situations where we make a condition of compliance in our permit, one of compliance with other jurisdictions.

830
01:13:19,900 --> 01:13:22,080
We do it right now with San Juan Basin Health.

831
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:37,120
As Daniel just said, we also require with respect to marijuana because we don't we know the other agencies may not take action as quickly as as we would like so just a heads up that that's something that I

832
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:41,280
assumed we had in there and be prepared to address that

833
01:13:43,220 --> 01:13:45,540
That coming back again

834
01:13:52,580 --> 01:14:01,840
Are we going to hear from the Fort Lewis-Mesa Fire District, or how is that going to...

835
01:14:02,220 --> 01:14:07,980
You indicated that there was not agreement on the emergency response plan, and I'm trying to figure out

836
01:14:07,980 --> 01:14:15,020
is there agreement between the Fire Districts and GCC and the county on the emergency response plan?

837
01:14:16,100 --> 01:14:20,160
There will be an opportunity for the Fire Department to speak through in public comment.

838
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:28,080
Okay. And that can be addressed. So my understanding is, yes, GCC consulted with, at the

839
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:34,920
Direction of the Planning Commission, DFRA, Fort Lewis Fire, as well as the county emergency

840
01:14:36,420 --> 01:14:44,960
butch, essentially. And all those parties were found to be their concern satisfied. Nevertheless,

841
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:50,140
the public did not feel that revised document was satisfactory. So that is the nature

842
01:14:50,140 --> 01:14:55,720
of the additional condition to convene a meeting and include the public in the discussion

843
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:57,160
to resolve the matter.

844
01:15:01,390 --> 01:15:02,850
From our perspective,

845
01:15:04,890 --> 01:15:18,170
one of the conditions is that GCC will have a website with traffic numbers, logs, etc on it. Are we anticipating actively monitoring that or how is that anticipated being used?

846
01:15:20,170 --> 01:15:21,910
A breaks into two different categories.

847
01:15:23,230 --> 01:15:28,010
Speed and traffic will be posted on the website as required in the condition and we will

848
01:15:28,010 --> 01:15:29,090
monitor those as needed.

849
01:15:29,650 --> 01:15:36,470
If we don't feel the need for additional counts, the county has all the ability to go and

850
01:15:36,470 --> 01:15:38,090
lay counters and count traffic.

851
01:15:38,670 --> 01:15:42,930
So we'll always have the option to do double checking of what they're posting with respect

852
01:15:42,930 --> 01:15:43,810
to counts.

853
01:15:44,470 --> 01:15:48,090
What our quality, as I mentioned, will be also posted on the website.

854
01:15:48,950 --> 01:15:51,230
So we will be monitoring, with respect to those three topics.

855
01:15:52,210 --> 01:15:57,230
Dust is one that's not required to be formally monitored, as I mentioned,

856
01:15:57,490 --> 01:16:02,850
it's one that is best just mitigated from the onset through paving.

857
01:16:03,770 --> 01:16:09,150
But that is a condition that allows there to be some enforceability of dust is too high,

858
01:16:09,190 --> 01:16:11,170
and that's based off a visual test.

859
01:16:11,170 --> 01:16:15,030
It might seem low-tech, but sometimes those are the best solutions.

860
01:16:16,030 --> 01:16:23,130
The photographing and observation of dust higher than wheel well constitutes violation of the

861
01:16:23,130 --> 01:16:23,550
condition.

862
01:16:23,930 --> 01:16:28,030
It will be something that GCC would need to remedy in order to remain in compliance with

863
01:16:28,030 --> 01:16:30,350
the code and their land use permit.

864
01:16:31,090 --> 01:16:32,130
And the other one is noise.

865
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:37,210
There's not currently a requirement for monitoring or posting results for noise.

866
01:16:37,210 --> 01:16:39,310
that could be something that we return to.

867
01:16:39,430 --> 01:16:43,170
It sounds like a topic of discussion once we've heard from all the parties.

868
01:16:46,470 --> 01:16:48,130
Okay, I have a couple of questions for Mr. Davis.

869
01:16:48,430 --> 01:16:53,950
If I could, Jim, excuse me, Mr. Davis, there's going to be,

870
01:16:54,090 --> 01:16:56,110
there's going to be at least, I think,

871
01:16:56,350 --> 01:16:59,990
by the Hansager property under the proposed temporary paving.

872
01:17:01,530 --> 01:17:05,710
There will be some point where traffic will be moving from gravel

873
01:17:05,710 --> 01:17:15,790
on to pavement and the track on of mud that creates dust and so on, will that be added?

874
01:17:15,910 --> 01:17:23,750
Will the pavement occur far enough west that track on of mud won't be an issue for that

875
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:24,670
particular residents?

876
01:17:28,650 --> 01:17:29,790
That's a reasonable question.

877
01:17:29,790 --> 01:17:33,930
I think for the most part, the end of the pavement will be far enough to where it will

878
01:17:33,930 --> 01:17:38,110
mitigate most of that, but I mean, it's inevitable that you do get from side driveways

879
01:17:38,110 --> 01:17:45,950
all on all of our paper roads you do on occasion get some tracking of dirt on vehicle wheels

880
01:17:45,950 --> 01:17:52,570
from side roads so excuse me to think you're going to eliminate 100% of the dust paving any

881
01:17:52,570 --> 01:18:01,030
road is not realistic. But we will consider an adequate section beyond the home to ensure that

882
01:18:01,030 --> 01:18:07,890
track on mud will be minimized. That is correct. I hope to minimize that to the extent

883
01:18:07,890 --> 01:18:15,350
And how do we come up with 12 cents per ton on the maintenance fee?

884
01:18:16,070 --> 01:18:22,830
It was based on the current cost and the long-term cost of maintenance, future chip seals, future overlays.

885
01:18:23,750 --> 01:18:25,390
The road will initially be designed.

886
01:18:25,650 --> 01:18:30,890
The pavement life will be a 20-year life that typically maintain that.

887
01:18:30,890 --> 01:18:34,310
You come in and do interim maintenance on any paved roads,

888
01:18:34,310 --> 01:18:37,570
So that was the basis for that fee.

889
01:18:39,010 --> 01:18:41,530
And my understanding is reading the road.

890
01:18:42,170 --> 01:18:45,250
Agreement is that there is an escalator built into that

891
01:18:45,250 --> 01:18:49,630
to address inflation type things.

892
01:18:49,750 --> 01:18:50,470
That is correct.

893
01:18:52,780 --> 01:18:52,940
All right.

894
01:18:53,080 --> 01:18:56,240
And then lastly, with respect to the right of way

895
01:18:56,240 --> 01:18:58,960
acquisition and actually the route of the road,

896
01:18:59,240 --> 01:19:03,800
we have some conceptual plans of where the road will go.

897
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:04,680
Is that correct?

898
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:05,420
That is correct.

899
01:19:05,420 --> 01:19:12,620
And then, you know, I think I'll ask, is there going to be a road person testifying later?

900
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:14,760
I'll say it's another question for the road person.

901
01:19:15,420 --> 01:19:15,920
Thank you.

902
01:19:16,140 --> 01:19:17,260
I've been wrapped up.

903
01:19:23,130 --> 01:19:25,090
Mr. Chair, I have a few questions.

904
01:19:25,550 --> 01:19:28,770
Thank you, Mr. Marie, for your presentation.

905
01:19:30,810 --> 01:19:34,990
I question, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the number of trucks.

906
01:19:34,990 --> 01:19:45,290
I'd like to talk a bit about the timing of the truck traffic in the negotiations with GCC.

907
01:19:46,250 --> 01:19:57,990
Was there discussion about further limiting the hauling hours from 6 to 10 and is it currently 24 hours a day hauling?

908
01:20:01,530 --> 01:20:08,430
There is a graphic that shows the breakdown of a day, so that will be presented if you'd

909
01:20:08,430 --> 01:20:14,970
like by the GCC and the 6 to 10 was a recommendation that came from the citizen advisory

910
01:20:14,970 --> 01:20:15,690
panel.

911
01:20:16,050 --> 01:20:20,350
So that's where we incorporated that compatibility mitigation measure.

912
01:20:20,350 --> 01:20:28,310
Was there discussion about avoiding school bus hours in the morning or afternoon?

913
01:20:31,380 --> 01:20:37,080
Generally, and there is a school bus stop at North 120 and 140.

914
01:20:37,580 --> 01:20:39,120
It's not a bus route.

915
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:52,120
And that specific item I can't recollect if it came up, it could be something that when we look at the breakdown of how trucks typically

916
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:59,800
We run during the day, may naturally address the concern, but let's return to that if

917
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:06,420
there's the need to adjust or create some specificity on avoiding school drop-off times.

918
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:08,320
Thank you.

919
01:21:10,930 --> 01:21:15,390
I'm just going to look through my notes and lots of questions

920
01:21:18,240 --> 01:21:20,860
regarding Commissioner West

921
01:21:20,860 --> 01:21:30,020
doors, line of questioning on subsidence, have there been any documented incidents of subsidence

922
01:21:30,020 --> 01:21:32,060
occurring in this area?

923
01:21:32,860 --> 01:21:35,500
I'd like to defer to GCC on that, I don't want to miss speak.

924
01:21:36,620 --> 01:21:43,580
Do we know if there is any, are there any coal mine operations under private service?

925
01:21:46,220 --> 01:21:46,620
Presently.

926
01:21:46,620 --> 01:21:53,420
It's all BLM lease area, but again, let's defer to GCC on the specifics.

927
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:03,660
There are tribal lands, let's let GCC clarify the composition of coal.

928
01:22:04,780 --> 01:22:05,760
Thank you.

929
01:22:10,750 --> 01:22:16,390
Regarding your statement about condemnation necessary for

930
01:22:19,180 --> 01:22:21,200
building the road, ultimately,

931
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:22,640
to county standards.

932
01:22:26,770 --> 01:22:32,090
Can you give specific examples of what condemnation proceedings would be necessary?

933
01:22:38,170 --> 01:22:44,190
I believe Jim Davis director of public works. So that goes to the Uniform Act, which is a federal

934
01:22:44,190 --> 01:22:51,970
guidelines for the acquisition of public property for public projects. You know, above and beyond

935
01:22:51,970 --> 01:22:57,970
that the county public works on any road project we typically reach out to the adjacent property owners

936
01:22:57,970 --> 01:23:01,490
that are impacted with any construction project like this.

937
01:23:02,210 --> 01:23:06,250
So I guess to minimize the potential that we get into that position, we start

938
01:23:06,250 --> 01:23:10,650
early on in the process within a reason to see what we can do to mitigate those impacts.

939
01:23:11,450 --> 01:23:17,250
As it relates to the alignment of the road, the acquisition of the land, all of those issues.

940
01:23:18,610 --> 01:23:23,970
And then through the uniform act, there is an initial value finding a...

941
01:23:24,890 --> 01:23:29,930
potentially a dual appraisal process and then negotiations from there, you can look at damages

942
01:23:29,930 --> 01:23:35,490
and some cases if that comes into the situation as well, but it's a fairly extensive process

943
01:23:35,490 --> 01:23:40,530
and is pointed out I've been with the county since 2001 and as long as I've been here we've

944
01:23:40,530 --> 01:23:45,930
never had to use condemnation of an eminent domain. I think it might have been back in the late 90s

945
01:23:45,930 --> 01:23:52,010
on a project on a floreater road, but I think a lot of it goes to the process and we do our best

946
01:23:52,010 --> 01:23:54,870
to the extent possible to work with the adjacent property owners.

947
01:23:56,030 --> 01:23:59,570
OK, so for the record, we don't have specific examples today.

948
01:24:00,430 --> 01:24:04,110
Well, I would almost refer to the county attorney to Cheryl

949
01:24:04,110 --> 01:24:07,350
as to that one instant that was 20 years ago.

950
01:24:07,590 --> 01:24:10,970
How much you're looking for is one for this project?

951
01:24:12,150 --> 01:24:14,770
Examples of condemnation for this project.

952
01:24:16,430 --> 01:24:19,610
Are you asking how many parcels are would potentially

953
01:24:19,610 --> 01:24:23,790
be condemned, okay, for road improvements.

954
01:24:24,770 --> 01:24:29,670
I can't recall that number, Jim. We have an estimate. Don't we? It kind of, that the alignment

955
01:24:33,010 --> 01:24:36,410
isn't completely determined, but what's the estimate?

956
01:24:36,990 --> 01:24:40,390
I don't know, real bad, I'm sorry.

957
01:24:41,290 --> 01:24:47,530
If you use the number of driveway driveways as an approximation, there's roughly 20 parcels

958
01:24:47,530 --> 01:24:49,010
on that corridor?

959
01:24:51,150 --> 01:24:52,530
That could potentially be

960
01:24:52,530 --> 01:24:54,870
condemned for the road.

961
01:25:02,070 --> 01:25:03,150
Missioners, I also,

962
01:25:04,130 --> 01:25:08,370
it's important to staff that we also

963
01:25:08,370 --> 01:25:11,990
make it clear to the board that

964
01:25:11,990 --> 01:25:14,370
in addition to the private

965
01:25:14,370 --> 01:25:16,570
property owners when it comes to condemnation.

966
01:25:16,690 --> 01:25:20,710
There is also a ditch that may well be impacted

967
01:25:20,710 --> 01:25:23,030
and that some of the property

968
01:25:23,030 --> 01:25:30,150
involved with the expansion of the width of the road is also owned by the

969
01:25:30,150 --> 01:25:37,230
youth Mountain Newt, and it is not owned in trust. It is a special type of

970
01:25:37,230 --> 01:25:48,740
ownership, which is, we would still, it's like a stewardship parcel, and our

971
01:25:48,740 --> 01:25:57,480
Our condemnation authority is likely limited when it comes to both the ditch company and

972
01:25:57,480 --> 01:25:59,780
the youth mountain youth parcel.

973
01:26:00,780 --> 01:26:00,880
Okay.

974
01:26:02,260 --> 01:26:03,240
Thank you.

975
01:26:03,340 --> 01:26:03,560
Andrew.

976
01:26:04,320 --> 01:26:04,520
Andrew.

977
01:26:04,520 --> 01:26:04,540
Andrew.

978
01:26:06,460 --> 01:26:07,100
Andrew.

979
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:10,680
Andrew.

980
01:26:14,860 --> 01:26:15,180
Andrew.

981
01:26:15,180 --> 01:26:19,920
For this project, the county is not required to follow the uniform act we are doing so to

982
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:23,520
go above and beyond to protect the neighbor's interests.

983
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:31,160
It is a process driven requirement and ensuring that we're following the uniform act as

984
01:26:31,160 --> 01:26:36,600
a state that goes above and beyond and being respectful of the issues related to the road

985
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:37,880
and the neighbor's property rights.

986
01:26:38,660 --> 01:26:44,040
Second, in terms of if we're able to state how many properties may or may not be condemned

987
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:47,080
at this time are intent as to avoid condemnation.

988
01:26:48,500 --> 01:26:50,960
And at this point, we only have conceptual level

989
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:54,000
drawings for the road, and that is specifically

990
01:26:54,000 --> 01:26:55,520
because of the right-away issues.

991
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:57,840
This is an iterative process.

992
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:00,260
And if our intent is to avoid condemnation

993
01:27:00,260 --> 01:27:02,660
to negotiate right-away to use every other mechanism

994
01:27:03,240 --> 01:27:05,140
other than condemnation, then that certainly

995
01:27:05,140 --> 01:27:09,520
will have an impact on where the final roadmap may go.

996
01:27:10,680 --> 01:27:12,980
As stated, it's iterative, it's a bit of a feedback loop.

997
01:27:12,980 --> 01:27:19,660
Once we, once GCC with the county's final approval goes through the right away acquisition process,

998
01:27:20,140 --> 01:27:26,220
if it is not feasible to obtain right away on one side of the road, for example, and that would force

999
01:27:26,220 --> 01:27:26,960
condensation.

1000
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:31,920
That's certainly would be an opportunity to shift the road to avoid condensation.

1001
01:27:32,140 --> 01:27:38,060
So that's why we can say with certainty how many parcels will be condemned at this time.

1002
01:27:38,100 --> 01:27:39,200
It's impossible to say.

1003
01:27:41,150 --> 01:27:44,330
Thank you, and Mr. Chair, one final question.

1004
01:27:45,290 --> 01:27:50,970
This is relating to enforcement and enforcing this permit.

1005
01:27:52,230 --> 01:28:01,290
Can staff speak to how we will ensure that this permit is enforced and complied with?

1006
01:28:01,610 --> 01:28:03,230
I'm Smith County Attorney's Office.

1007
01:28:04,530 --> 01:28:08,470
Well, code enforcement is a complaint driven process,

1008
01:28:08,470 --> 01:28:13,670
and I'd actually like to circle back to the earlier question about county staff monitoring

1009
01:28:13,670 --> 01:28:19,250
the website, part of the, or part of the reason, the primary reason for ensuring that

1010
01:28:19,870 --> 01:28:25,790
that information is public is because code enforcement is complaint driven. So we certainly

1011
01:28:25,790 --> 01:28:29,590
will be monitoring that website, but the reason is being made public is because we anticipate

1012
01:28:29,590 --> 01:28:36,050
very much that the public will be monitoring that website as well. So this, Laney's permit

1013
01:28:36,050 --> 01:28:49,090
If approved will be handled just any other and that it's a complaint driven process and we will have the same tools that we have within the other land use permit if the conditions are not complied with.

1014
01:28:49,570 --> 01:29:03,050
I would note that the conditions are numerous as you can see and they've been drafted in a very particular manner to try and provide clarity both for the applicant for the county and for

1015
01:29:03,050 --> 01:29:09,330
citizens to aid enforcement and hopefully to avoid enforcement actions going forward.

1016
01:29:10,270 --> 01:29:14,510
So I think a significant feature that should be noted differing from a lot of their

1017
01:29:14,510 --> 01:29:17,950
land use permits are the number and style of those conditions.

1018
01:29:18,750 --> 01:29:24,870
Last, it is I think well-known at this point between the applicant and the county that it

1019
01:29:24,870 --> 01:29:29,490
is the county's intent if the terms and conditions of the road improvement agreement and

1020
01:29:29,490 --> 01:29:35,230
specifically or not comply with that the county will consider could consider bringing a contract

1021
01:29:35,230 --> 01:29:41,690
enforcement action. That is a unique feature that we rarely have with Lainew's permits that

1022
01:29:42,810 --> 01:29:48,330
violation of the key elements of the Lainew's permit are also a violation of a contract.

1023
01:29:50,580 --> 01:29:52,580
Thank you. No further questions.

1024
01:29:54,960 --> 01:29:55,560
Thank you.

1025
01:29:57,340 --> 01:29:59,980
Thank you, Mr. Murray. Can you speak to

1026
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:12,220
The water monitoring wells, the number, the number proposed general information about the water monitoring wells.

1027
01:30:15,120 --> 01:30:27,540
I can't. It's captured in TR26, but if I also may allow GCC to speak to that report, because they essentially put forth that plan to the state.

1028
01:30:27,540 --> 01:30:40,860
in the state approves that plan. It's well beyond my expertise. So I'll just, if you're willing to let me defer to their consultant and if we still have questions we can revisit the matter.

1029
01:30:42,160 --> 01:30:48,280
I will ask them the question then. Thank you. That concludes my questions.

1030
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:59,320
Mr. Chair, if I could, just for a minute, go back to Commissioner Weston Gervs questions about noise and just provide an explanation about the statutes.

1031
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:04,020
There are two separate statutes on noise one would pertain to the site itself.

1032
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:08,140
And there are industrial and residential standards with that.

1033
01:31:08,140 --> 01:31:18,260
And then there is a statute which is 20 CRS 2512106, which actually speaks to the amount of noise.

1034
01:31:18,260 --> 01:31:21,580
that vehicles can create on a road.

1035
01:31:24,220 --> 01:31:27,540
And it a subsequent statute allows a county to adopt

1036
01:31:27,540 --> 01:31:33,860
a resolution limiting the decibels on the road and what you see in your report are the

1037
01:31:33,860 --> 01:31:40,920
decibels that are established by that section. If that helps you when you're listening to

1038
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:51,780
subsequent reports it is it depends on the year and make well the year of the vehicle in the speed limit

1039
01:31:51,780 --> 01:31:57,780
but for a speed limit of 35 miles per hour less it's for vehicles before January

1040
01:31:57,780 --> 01:32:06,620
1773 it's 88 decibels and on or after January 1773 it's 86 that applies to the vehicle itself

1041
01:32:06,620 --> 01:32:14,230
but doesn't apply to, it, the section applies to the total noise from a vehicle or a combination

1042
01:32:14,230 --> 01:32:15,550
of vehicles on a road.

1043
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:24,920
If I may, this Adam Smith County Attorney's Office, that statute is informing staffs

1044
01:32:24,920 --> 01:32:31,020
recommendation, the authority for the county to impose that limit is derived from compatibility.

1045
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:36,700
So, the statute is providing us a data point to consider, but the authority to getting

1046
01:32:36,700 --> 01:32:42,120
there is our compatibility in the 80, chapter 82 of the land use code.

1047
01:32:44,170 --> 01:32:46,070
You don't have to accept the 86.

1048
01:32:51,300 --> 01:32:52,000
Thank you.

1049
01:32:54,570 --> 01:32:56,650
How much time does the county have left?

1050
01:32:57,250 --> 01:33:01,330
Does the county actually have 18 minutes and one second left?

1051
01:33:02,350 --> 01:33:09,410
Before questions started, would this be a time for Chief Anderson to report on the emergency response?

1052
01:33:10,610 --> 01:33:13,930
Chief, would you have anything that you'd like to add in regards to that?

1053
01:33:21,320 --> 01:33:27,000
If Chris Anderson for the list makes a fire protection district, I did consult with the

1054
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:34,200
mine at their request on their emergency response plan for an event on the road, make some

1055
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:37,280
recommendations and they incorporate it in their plan.

1056
01:33:41,490 --> 01:33:42,230
Thank you.

1057
01:33:47,290 --> 01:33:48,910
You're efficient with your time.

1058
01:33:51,270 --> 01:33:51,630
All right.

1059
01:33:51,970 --> 01:33:55,090
We are past our 1030 break time.

1060
01:33:55,090 --> 01:34:03,170
And do we want to have a break at this point in, uh, well, 1035, huh, we're right over here.

1061
01:34:03,230 --> 01:34:07,890
We're going to take it after GCC, see, made their presentation, but our technical difficulties.

1062
01:34:09,650 --> 01:34:13,490
My question is, do we want to take a break before GCC?

1063
01:34:14,690 --> 01:34:16,310
We will have a five minute break.

1064
01:34:16,690 --> 01:34:17,490
Thank you.

1065
01:34:32,820 --> 01:34:33,780
Thank you.

1066
01:43:17,990 --> 01:43:18,730
Thank you.

1067
01:43:22,830 --> 01:43:29,330
Thank you for coming to order. We'd like to go ahead and continue on with our

1068
01:43:34,610 --> 01:43:35,230
agenda.

1069
01:43:35,810 --> 01:43:36,910
It's a little out of whack right?

1070
01:43:42,400 --> 01:43:44,080
Presentation by GCC.

1071
01:43:50,750 --> 01:43:51,650
Thank you.

1072
01:44:20,580 --> 01:44:21,720
Testing them out.

1073
01:44:45,290 --> 01:44:49,790
Thank you, Mr. Paraman and Commissioners. Members of County staff, members of the

1074
01:44:49,790 --> 01:44:52,770
public. My name is Carolyn White. I'm Landy's Council for the applicant.

1075
01:44:55,440 --> 01:44:56,120
As we have numerous

1076
01:44:56,120 --> 01:44:59,960
folks to present to you if you don't mind, we'll stay seated here at this table.

1077
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:02,700
Well, and rather than popping up and down to the podium.

1078
01:45:05,930 --> 01:45:20,590
As you know, mining has been an integral part of the culture, economy, and lifeblood of Laplad Accounting for decades. Since the 1940s, GCCN, its predecessors, have employed generations of families throughout the county.

1079
01:45:21,910 --> 01:45:27,310
Here before you, we were here before you today seeking this class two landies permit for the existing mine.

1080
01:45:27,310 --> 01:45:42,870
While this permitting process is obviously taken longer than anyone wanted or would have desired or probably would have predicted when the initial application was filed, this extensive process occurred because of both GCC and the county's desire to get it right.

1081
01:45:43,490 --> 01:45:51,110
And every time that a new issue or concern was raised, the additional time was taken to study and analyze and understand that concern.

1082
01:45:51,110 --> 01:45:56,110
And in response, either proposed mitigation measures, conditions of approval or in some cases,

1083
01:45:56,610 --> 01:46:01,710
change the very activity of, in terms of what would actually be permitted if the pending

1084
01:46:01,710 --> 01:46:03,250
permit application were approved.

1085
01:46:04,450 --> 01:46:09,190
Additionally, as has been referenced, there's always been this added layer of other state

1086
01:46:09,190 --> 01:46:14,070
federal and local permitting that controls what happens in and at the mind.

1087
01:46:15,730 --> 01:46:20,710
This process, you should know, has forced DCC to make some very difficult decisions about

1088
01:46:20,710 --> 01:46:22,550
the very operation of the mine itself.

1089
01:46:23,010 --> 01:46:27,190
How they conduct their business, what type of business to conduct, and what their production

1090
01:46:27,190 --> 01:46:29,950
levels will be, and what their business will look like going forward.

1091
01:46:30,330 --> 01:46:34,070
And you'll have a little more information about that as this presentation progresses.

1092
01:46:35,550 --> 01:46:40,270
The application before you, as presented with the conditions of approval, with the mitigations

1093
01:46:40,270 --> 01:46:44,350
that are already taking place, with the mitigations that are proposed, and with the ongoing

1094
01:46:44,350 --> 01:46:50,530
monitoring is a successful compromise for a compatible operation.

1095
01:46:51,310 --> 01:46:54,930
This will result in a $10 million brand new county road.

1096
01:46:55,610 --> 01:46:59,890
A long-term maintenance fee for the county's benefit for the continued upkeep of that road

1097
01:46:59,890 --> 01:47:04,330
as long as the life of the mine is for the entire life of the mine.

1098
01:47:04,870 --> 01:47:10,750
Both short and long-term reductions in truck numbers from what is there today and from what

1099
01:47:10,750 --> 01:47:14,130
CDC would otherwise be allowed to do under its state and federal permits.

1100
01:47:15,850 --> 01:47:19,170
While there are obviously still residents who have concerns, and I'm sure you'll have

1101
01:47:19,170 --> 01:47:22,310
the opportunity here from them today what their concerns are,

1102
01:47:23,690 --> 01:47:28,110
GCC has achieved significant consensus with the county staff recommendations in the

1103
01:47:28,110 --> 01:47:32,630
larger community by making a variety of concessions and agreeing to a number of conditions

1104
01:47:32,630 --> 01:47:36,050
of approval restricting the way that they operate this mind going forward.

1105
01:47:37,550 --> 01:47:46,610
I'd like to now introduce the rest of the team who will be presenting to you today and other members of the team who are available for your questions even though they may not be part of our formal presentation.

1106
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:55,780
I have with me Gina Nance, Vice President of Energy and Environment.

1107
01:47:57,240 --> 01:47:59,820
Trent Peterson, Vice President of GCC Energy.

1108
01:47:59,820 --> 01:48:03,340
Wait, why more GCC plant super-intended?

1109
01:48:04,400 --> 01:48:09,320
We also have all of our experts who provide a report to you here that includes road engineering

1110
01:48:09,320 --> 01:48:12,060
traffic, water, air quality, noise, and vibration.

1111
01:48:12,880 --> 01:48:18,260
Mike Olson seated to my far right, PE, a road runner engineering who addressed road design,

1112
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:23,160
cost, traffic, and pac assessment and evaluated the alternative routes for the hall road.

1113
01:48:23,160 --> 01:48:26,340
Seed Harris, PE of Harris Water Engineering,

1114
01:48:28,690 --> 01:48:32,730
who's behind me, land and back, resource hydrogeologic

1115
01:48:32,730 --> 01:48:37,750
services who address the groundwater issues, the neat Masuraha of Trinity consultants,

1116
01:48:38,170 --> 01:48:40,750
addressing air quality, which includes specifically dust.

1117
01:48:41,670 --> 01:48:45,230
Jeff Qualkowski, with the way of engineering, who can answer your questions about noise

1118
01:48:45,230 --> 01:48:46,010
and vibration.

1119
01:48:46,990 --> 01:48:51,610
Rob Johnston, with Johnston Land Company, he is the rightaway agent that was hired by GCC

1120
01:48:51,610 --> 01:48:53,190
to handle the rightaway acquisition.

1121
01:48:53,190 --> 01:48:57,550
and Joe Bowden PhD with CDS Environmental Services LLC.

1122
01:48:58,070 --> 01:49:00,090
All of these folks will be available to answer your questions

1123
01:49:00,090 --> 01:49:02,330
at your convenience following our formal presentation.

1124
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:10,760
The brief summary of our, of our, how we're going to conduct our presentation today.

1125
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:15,240
We'll have some generic information about the background of GCC in this particular operation.

1126
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:20,260
We will add to what staff is presented to you already regarding the road improvement agreement,

1127
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:23,820
which is a condition of approval of this application if it's approved,

1128
01:49:23,820 --> 01:49:27,660
And which DCC has already executed, so if it is approved,

1129
01:49:28,180 --> 01:49:30,520
the board would simply sign it for it to become effective.

1130
01:49:31,240 --> 01:49:34,620
We'll also address our concurrence with the staff report,

1131
01:49:34,860 --> 01:49:36,080
which does recommend approval,

1132
01:49:36,580 --> 01:49:39,620
finding that the proposal with mitigation and conditions is

1133
01:49:39,620 --> 01:49:44,120
compliant, compatible, and consistent with the code and the long range plans.

1134
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:48,280
And we will also go through all of the criteria in the code

1135
01:49:48,280 --> 01:49:52,260
that you are required to consider in class 2 land use application

1136
01:49:52,260 --> 01:49:54,920
and explain why it meets all of those criteria.

1137
01:49:56,480 --> 01:50:00,720
To begin this, I'd like to introduce Trent Peterson to my right, who's going to give

1138
01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:04,040
you the brief, excuse me, the brief history of this process on the mind.

1139
01:50:15,980 --> 01:50:17,040
Thank you.

1140
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:19,200
Peterson, Vice President,

1141
01:50:22,260 --> 01:50:25,440
would like to begin by thanking the planning staff for input and

1142
01:50:25,440 --> 01:50:30,920
expertise as we respond to the inquiries and develop this application throughout this process,

1143
01:50:30,960 --> 01:50:33,580
the application that's now presented for your consideration.

1144
01:50:33,580 --> 01:50:39,840
I would like to thank the county administration and county attorney as we work diligently

1145
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:44,020
through the road improvement agreement over the last few months.

1146
01:50:45,100 --> 01:50:49,800
And special thanks to the county's public works for maintaining the county roadways that

1147
01:50:49,800 --> 01:50:56,960
are really the infrastructure that make possible and, finally, I want to thank and acknowledge

1148
01:50:56,960 --> 01:51:01,840
the members of the community for their involvement and feedback through this process.

1149
01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:08,080
And a number of people in the audience here I recognize have been engaged since the very beginning.

1150
01:51:09,520 --> 01:51:16,140
A lot of tough conversations over the last few years, but as a result, we have reached a better conclusion.

1151
01:51:17,260 --> 01:51:22,280
And in the true nature of compromise, this is something that hasn't satisfied all parties,

1152
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:27,160
but we were able to achieve a consensus with a broad spectrum of the community.

1153
01:51:27,700 --> 01:51:31,920
answer a number of questions that have come up over the last few years.

1154
01:51:35,560 --> 01:51:38,420
I want to thank you for taking the time to visit the mine a couple of weeks ago.

1155
01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:43,420
I'm sorry I was able to be there with an unification which had planned a long time before.

1156
01:51:46,540 --> 01:51:51,500
You've seen this already, but just to point out where some of the things are for members of the public

1157
01:51:51,500 --> 01:51:53,480
that may not be familiar with it.

1158
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:59,600
Towards the left-hand side of the picture is a stock pile with a conveyor stacker.

1159
01:51:59,600 --> 01:52:02,960
That's the conveyor that comes out of the out of the mind.

1160
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:06,720
We're looking essentially do north from the county road.

1161
01:52:06,980 --> 01:52:10,520
That conveyor extends approximately a mile into the mind.

1162
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:17,520
That stockpile there holds about 10,000 tons of coal and live storage up to about 20,000 of necessary.

1163
01:52:19,480 --> 01:52:23,740
Off to the right side of the picture.

1164
01:52:24,540 --> 01:52:31,840
question and screen operation, where coal is sized for distribution to customers, and then

1165
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:37,260
behind that in the background is another stock pile of finished coal that would be for distribution.

1166
01:52:38,140 --> 01:52:45,460
Approximately in the center of the photo are two truck bins where trucks are loaded live, as

1167
01:52:45,460 --> 01:52:49,860
you may have seen during the visit, tip of the loading time on a truck is about five minutes.

1168
01:52:51,840 --> 01:53:00,180
Something that is worth pointing out here is that what you see in this picture is essentially what you will always see.

1169
01:53:00,860 --> 01:53:07,160
The operations here that are visible are the operations that are on the surface essentially everything else is underground.

1170
01:53:08,580 --> 01:53:19,000
The operation is no mountain top removal, no steep slope mining, no disturbance of prime hay gulch farmland, there are no blasting operations associated with this.

1171
01:53:20,410 --> 01:53:22,970
Finally, it's a dry mine.

1172
01:53:23,710 --> 01:53:25,510
The water table is below the coal scene.

1173
01:53:26,370 --> 01:53:31,690
No water is encountered in the mining operation and something that makes this just about

1174
01:53:31,690 --> 01:53:34,770
a perfect spot for a coal miner as there's no methane either.

1175
01:53:36,110 --> 01:53:38,190
Right now we have about 120 employees,

1176
01:53:48,420 --> 01:53:51,040
both use almost strictly for cement production.

1177
01:53:51,980 --> 01:53:56,220
We also serve the Durango and Silverton railroads and several other historic railroads

1178
01:53:56,220 --> 01:54:02,600
around the Western United States, and then during use for home heating coal, serving about

1179
01:54:02,600 --> 01:54:05,020
1,500 households across the four corners.

1180
01:54:07,480 --> 01:54:09,820
The coal from the King II mine is almost ideally

1181
01:54:09,820 --> 01:54:19,660
suited for cement production. I won't go over the years. The cement industry is recognized

1182
01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:27,940
the low ash content, low sulfur content, low chlorine and mercury content, and seen that this

1183
01:54:27,940 --> 01:54:31,980
coal provides an almost perfect fuel for a cement plant.

1184
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:38,120
All cement plants use coal as a primary fuel source. This coal is not used to serve the electric

1185
01:54:38,120 --> 01:54:39,060
power industry.

1186
01:54:45,570 --> 01:54:49,490
In a spite of not having obtained a county land use permit yet, it's not as

1187
01:54:49,490 --> 01:54:54,590
if the mine isn't regulated. The mine is regulated by a number of different state and federal

1188
01:54:54,590 --> 01:55:02,110
agencies. And it looked proud of its compliance and safety record. Right now, as of today,

1189
01:55:02,250 --> 01:55:07,730
the mine is operated for 592 days without an injury, and recently learned that we were

1190
01:55:07,730 --> 01:55:11,670
again selected to receive a safety award from Rocky Mountain coal mining institute.

1191
01:55:19,810 --> 01:55:24,750
I've been asked many times by G.C. didn't get a class to land use permit before

1192
01:55:24,750 --> 01:55:31,590
king to open. I think it's been stated plenty of times that there was a determination

1193
01:55:31,590 --> 01:55:38,070
that the county didn't have jurisdiction in 2007, so GCC obtained all the necessary state

1194
01:55:38,070 --> 01:55:41,510
and federal permits to begin operations at that time.

1195
01:55:41,910 --> 01:55:49,190
It subsequently, when the county did determine jurisdiction, GCC did submit the application

1196
01:55:49,190 --> 01:55:50,150
for a permit.

1197
01:55:55,600 --> 01:56:01,880
The question also is why this application has taken so long, and lots of times I wake up

1198
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:04,740
morning and wondered the same thing myself.

1199
01:56:07,680 --> 01:56:11,500
But this timeline here points out what some of the

1200
01:56:11,500 --> 01:56:18,660
major milestones in here have been beginning in August 2010 when the county submitted a letter

1201
01:56:18,660 --> 01:56:25,060
of GCC saying the company was out of compliance with its land use code. So, over the next

1202
01:56:25,060 --> 01:56:30,340
several months there was ongoing deliberation in the county of that statement and the context

1203
01:56:30,340 --> 01:56:36,760
of its earlier determinations of no jurisdiction, and then in 2011, a definitive determination

1204
01:56:36,760 --> 01:56:43,540
that, indeed, the county did have jurisdiction, which is a determination that she had

1205
01:56:43,540 --> 01:56:44,240
no disagree.

1206
01:56:46,660 --> 01:56:56,600
The next several months, GCCC started working on assembling the required documentation for

1207
01:56:59,340 --> 01:57:03,820
And as we'll further illustrate, it's not a simple application.

1208
01:57:04,480 --> 01:57:06,680
It took a lot of time to conduct the required studies,

1209
01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:12,080
develop the background information and assemble the package into what was at that time,

1210
01:57:12,340 --> 01:57:13,860
thought to be a complete application.

1211
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:18,800
After that, there were several neighborhood compatibility meetings held,

1212
01:57:19,500 --> 01:57:22,700
and as a result of those meetings and the questions that came up,

1213
01:57:23,460 --> 01:57:32,380
There were a number of additional studies that GCC conducted to address groundwater, noise, and vibration.

1214
01:57:34,260 --> 01:57:37,500
And as I mentioned earlier, a lot of this is not simple.

1215
01:57:38,480 --> 01:57:40,160
Some of these are very complex studies.

1216
01:57:40,440 --> 01:57:48,020
For example, the groundwater study was one that the scope was determined and vetted by a combination of GCC,

1217
01:57:48,020 --> 01:57:52,620
We'll plot a county, Bureau of Land Management, Colorado Division of Reclamation,

1218
01:57:52,880 --> 01:57:56,440
Mining and Safety, and Office of Service, Mining, and Reclamation.

1219
01:57:57,480 --> 01:58:03,160
Really, a multi-agency cooperation to determine what kind of study needed to be done.

1220
01:58:03,500 --> 01:58:08,460
Many of the studies that have been conducted have not been any kind of off-the-shelf studies.

1221
01:58:09,700 --> 01:58:15,240
But in that one, for example, even after the scope of the study was determined it wasn't one

1222
01:58:15,240 --> 01:58:21,740
could be completed in days or even weeks, and took literally months, finally conclude.

1223
01:58:24,730 --> 01:58:29,850
Sober of 2014, December of 2014,

1224
01:58:32,010 --> 01:58:34,850
we intended to go to a planning commission hearing

1225
01:58:34,850 --> 01:58:41,950
with a recommendation for approval. Shortly before that time, there was a new

1226
01:58:41,950 --> 01:58:48,710
great deal of public input primarily around traffic at that point and it was the county and GCC

1227
01:58:48,710 --> 01:58:57,210
determined then to to continue that hearing until we could hear more public input and further study the

1228
01:58:57,210 --> 01:59:06,040
concerns that were being brought up. Spring and summer of 2015 we convened the Hague-Alchid

1229
01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:14,900
advisory panel. It was made up of three primary constituent groups, one residents along the north

1230
01:59:14,900 --> 01:59:20,760
part of County Road 120, another from Vista de Loro subdivision off to the west of the

1231
01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:29,730
mine and another from County Road 120, 116 and 119 south of the mine. By the middle of the

1232
01:59:29,730 --> 01:59:36,890
summer, the Hague Elch Citizens Advisory Panel had issued 21 recommendations at this point

1233
01:59:36,890 --> 01:59:43,210
over half of those either have been adopted by GCC or will be adopted.

1234
01:59:44,310 --> 01:59:47,090
A number of others were outside of the scope of this application.

1235
01:59:49,430 --> 01:59:56,090
July of last year, July 31, GCC submitted supplemental information to the application

1236
01:59:56,090 --> 01:59:59,970
and updated studies at this point studies that number.

1237
02:00:00,180 --> 02:00:02,460
43 in total.

1238
02:00:04,540 --> 02:00:14,760
And on September 2nd of 2015, got a board of adjustment approval for an increase from the standard 8.8% grade to 8.8%

1239
02:00:15,340 --> 02:00:21,800
Over a limited distance on the steep hill at approximately mile 2.2 on county road 120.

1240
02:00:23,150 --> 02:00:40,130
October 8 of 2015, there was a request for continuance for two reasons, one, provided additional information requested by the county and two, resolved and unexpected necessary change to the water plan.

1241
02:00:42,050 --> 02:01:10,870
I think it's worth bringing up there that the change of the water plan resulted from changes in enforcement patterns and regulation from the mind safety and health administration when the first irrigation water was obtained in 2006 the estimated long-term usage for water at the mind was less than five gallons per every ton of coal mined.

1242
02:01:11,570 --> 02:01:16,930
changes in federal enforcement patterns have now put that number and closer to 11 gallons

1243
02:01:16,930 --> 02:01:20,250
per toned mind. So nearly double the required water.

1244
02:01:24,880 --> 02:01:30,860
Our second and third, at April 14th of 2016, additional planning commission hearings

1245
02:01:30,860 --> 02:01:34,420
and finally a recommendation of approval by a 4-1 vote.

1246
02:01:35,880 --> 02:01:40,080
The bottom line of that is that the community process has taken time.

1247
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:47,540
We received feedback, a lot of questions, and engaged number of experts to study the issues

1248
02:01:47,540 --> 02:01:49,740
that have been brought up.

1249
02:01:50,080 --> 02:01:56,360
And as I said before, over the course of this, engaged 43 separate studies to better answer

1250
02:01:56,360 --> 02:01:57,200
those questions.

1251
02:01:57,920 --> 02:02:02,140
A lot of tough conversations in the last few years, but ultimately we've reached a better

1252
02:02:02,140 --> 02:02:02,660
result.

1253
02:02:03,920 --> 02:02:05,260
I'd like to turn this back over to Carolyn.

1254
02:02:05,260 --> 02:02:06,180
Thank

1255
02:02:15,010 --> 02:02:17,630
you again, Carolyn Whitelandy's Council for the applicant.

1256
02:02:19,210 --> 02:02:24,670
As has been discussed, it's worth noting that if this permit is approved, it will not allow

1257
02:02:24,670 --> 02:02:30,870
GCC to engage in any new activity or operations, but rather only allow them to continue their

1258
02:02:30,870 --> 02:02:32,430
existing activity and operations.

1259
02:02:32,750 --> 02:02:39,190
In fact, it will also require them to reduce their existing activity and operations down to that

1260
02:02:39,190 --> 02:02:41,070
80 truck level that was discussed earlier.

1261
02:02:41,070 --> 02:02:44,150
and we'll talk in more detail in a moment about the varying truck levels.

1262
02:02:44,570 --> 02:02:50,250
But that's an important factor, and it is the reason why a staff has noted that we're discussing

1263
02:02:50,250 --> 02:02:55,490
a phased construction of road improvements rather than the typical requirement you might see

1264
02:02:55,490 --> 02:03:00,270
for new undertaking in the county for the entirety of the road improvements required to be conducted

1265
02:03:00,270 --> 02:03:01,910
before the operation commences.

1266
02:03:03,090 --> 02:03:08,310
If the permit is approved, GCC will be improving county road on 20 north.

1267
02:03:08,310 --> 02:03:19,090
They will be constructing approximately $10 million worth of total road improvements for the benefit of the community in county road 120 North, although not all of the improvements are physically on 120 North.

1268
02:03:19,650 --> 02:03:29,790
Additionally, some of the most urgent and most important road improvements will be conducted first, very soon in fact this summer, and will go in a more detail on the phasing and a moment with Mike Olson.

1269
02:03:29,790 --> 02:03:35,210
This also includes the maintenance fee of 12 cents per ton with escalation as has already been discussed.

1270
02:03:35,670 --> 02:03:44,650
Noise buffer walls, if the neighbors choose to have those implemented, they can have that option without the entire life of the five year phasing.

1271
02:03:45,210 --> 02:03:55,130
There will also be short-term and long-term limits on truck numbers as well as a host of other mitigation measures that have already been undertaken despite the fact that no permit has yet been granted.

1272
02:03:55,130 --> 02:04:00,970
GCC has undertaken those voluntarily on faith and in the hopes that eventually this permit

1273
02:04:00,970 --> 02:04:03,570
will be granted and will be allowed to continue operations.

1274
02:04:04,750 --> 02:04:09,110
As noted, this required some very difficult conversations and fundamental restructuring

1275
02:04:09,110 --> 02:04:11,110
of the business conducted here at this mine.

1276
02:04:11,630 --> 02:04:19,270
And what I mean by that is, GCC had to decide to produce less coal here than what their

1277
02:04:19,270 --> 02:04:22,230
otherwise allowed to do in order to meet those reduced truck numbers.

1278
02:04:22,230 --> 02:04:28,190
And that requires a awful lot of internal evaluation at the highest levels of the corporate structure.

1279
02:04:29,210 --> 02:04:32,110
Approval of this permit would allow this longstanding issue to be resolved,

1280
02:04:32,770 --> 02:04:36,550
and put the both GCCN and the neighbors in a better position than they are today.

1281
02:04:37,670 --> 02:04:41,730
I'd like to briefly summarize the road improvement agreement and some of the key provisions of it.

1282
02:04:41,750 --> 02:04:44,830
I'll try not to be duplicative of what Mr. Murray presented earlier,

1283
02:04:45,250 --> 02:04:51,690
but some of the points that we want to emphasize is that the most important thing is the initial reduction

1284
02:04:51,690 --> 02:04:56,990
down to 80 trucks per day on average, and that will be in place that will be the limit in

1285
02:04:56,990 --> 02:05:02,690
place for phases 1, 2, and 3. All of that construction. No additional trucks above the

1286
02:05:02,690 --> 02:05:07,630
80 with the 20% allowance in the average calculation that was mentioned can occur until the

1287
02:05:07,630 --> 02:05:14,170
completion of phases 1, 2, and 3. And the phases 1, 2, and 3 address the most urgent needs

1288
02:05:14,170 --> 02:05:19,110
in those which have generated the most concerned comments and questions from the neighbors.

1289
02:05:19,110 --> 02:05:35,650
So, at the conclusion of phase three, the entirety of county road 120 North will be paved from the intersection with 140, all the way to the end of the blue line, which is approximately 500 yards past the last private residence on that road.

1290
02:05:35,990 --> 02:05:46,070
So, the question was asked earlier about the tracking and there is a little bit of a distance allowed there. I'm told it's about 500 feet, but if we want to get precise, we can ask our traffic expert on that a little bit later.

1291
02:05:46,070 --> 02:05:51,430
So, until all of those improvements are complete, no increase over the 80 trucks will be allowed.

1292
02:05:51,910 --> 02:05:58,910
And the reason for that in our understanding and discussions with county staff and based on our experts analysis is that,

1293
02:05:59,050 --> 02:06:01,690
once those phases 1, 2 and 3 are complete,

1294
02:06:04,270 --> 02:06:14,270
it is certain that the road will be able to safely and comparatively accommodate the next proposed increase in trucks from 80 to 100 trucks per day on average.

1295
02:06:14,270 --> 02:06:19,270
The other point I want to mention, and we can address this in more detail later, as well, is that when

1296
02:06:19,270 --> 02:06:23,570
staff showed you that historic graph of the calculation of truck numbers, the average

1297
02:06:23,570 --> 02:06:29,870
truck numbers, 55, 90, and so on, increasing per day, those were based on seven-day averages.

1298
02:06:30,430 --> 02:06:33,970
The numbers that are being committed to as part of the road improvement agreement and this

1299
02:06:33,970 --> 02:06:39,430
permit, if it's approved, are based on six-day averages due to GCC's agreement to

1300
02:06:39,430 --> 02:06:43,670
to see falling on site. That means it is not only reducing the total

1301
02:06:43,670 --> 02:06:47,410
trucks, but distributing them over a shorter period of time, which further

1302
02:06:47,410 --> 02:06:50,490
reduces the total number of trucks that will be allowed to use this

1303
02:06:50,490 --> 02:06:50,870
road.

1304
02:06:55,090 --> 02:06:57,910
A little other key points about the Road Improvement Agreement that I'd like to

1305
02:06:57,910 --> 02:07:01,430
mention that weren't previously highlighted. Questions were asked about how

1306
02:07:01,430 --> 02:07:04,490
the county will enforce the requirement that GCC construct these

1307
02:07:04,490 --> 02:07:08,670
improvements. The Road Improvement Agreement contains a provision requiring that

1308
02:07:08,670 --> 02:07:12,750
financial security be posted with the county in the amount of 120

1309
02:07:12,750 --> 02:07:15,410
percent of the estimated cost of the road improvements.

1310
02:07:15,890 --> 02:07:20,070
That cost estimate has to be submitted by GCC and approved by county staff.

1311
02:07:20,530 --> 02:07:24,430
And the county will have the ability to draw on those funds in the event that GCC fails

1312
02:07:24,430 --> 02:07:27,730
to complete the road improvements within the specified time.

1313
02:07:27,990 --> 02:07:30,010
So the county has that enforcement mechanism.

1314
02:07:30,250 --> 02:07:34,790
The county also has the additional enforcement mechanism through the contract to the

1315
02:07:34,790 --> 02:07:38,830
road improvement agreement and addition to the condition of approval, which was mentioned

1316
02:07:38,830 --> 02:07:45,490
by Mr. Smith earlier, and as a land use attorney who specializes in this, I can tell you that it is

1317
02:07:45,490 --> 02:07:50,210
exceedingly rare for any of my applicant clients to voluntarily agree to that additional

1318
02:07:50,210 --> 02:07:54,730
enforcement mechanism by contract as well as through the county code enforcement powers,

1319
02:07:54,910 --> 02:08:00,370
and so that is a unique feature of this and its additional belt and suspenders that the county has

1320
02:08:00,370 --> 02:08:03,050
to enforce the provisions of the road improvement agreement.

1321
02:08:07,170 --> 02:08:09,790
As a result of this analysis, discussion,

1322
02:08:09,790 --> 02:08:15,630
conditions of approval, ongoing mitigation measures, and future planned mitigation measures

1323
02:08:15,630 --> 02:08:21,970
if the permit is approved, this application meets all of the required criteria in the county

1324
02:08:21,970 --> 02:08:27,990
code for approval of a Class II land use permit. We'll go through each of these in a little bit

1325
02:08:27,990 --> 02:08:33,290
greater detail. I'll bring the appropriate expert where we plan that and we're also happy to

1326
02:08:33,290 --> 02:08:37,150
bring them up later if we didn't address your questions and as much detail as you would like.

1327
02:08:40,000 --> 02:08:54,480
The other point we'd like to make here is that when we're talking about compatibility, which as noted by staff is a qualitative standard, not a quantitative standard, there certainly can be differences opinion of opinion about whether or not compatibility is achieved in a given circumstance.

1328
02:08:55,180 --> 02:09:04,060
But what we're not trying to do here and what compatibility doesn't mean is to try to make this operation exactly the same as everything around it.

1329
02:09:04,060 --> 02:09:06,540
that's not compatibility, that's uniformity.

1330
02:09:07,020 --> 02:09:10,740
Well, we're talking about here is the process by which things which may be different

1331
02:09:10,740 --> 02:09:13,960
can be nonetheless rendered compatible with each other,

1332
02:09:14,200 --> 02:09:19,400
able to exist together without trouble or conflict by virtue of the various mitigation measures

1333
02:09:19,400 --> 02:09:24,500
that will be undertaken in order to address any impacts that might be created by one of the activities.

1334
02:09:26,780 --> 02:09:31,840
In order to understand what that might look like for the purposes of this application,

1335
02:09:31,840 --> 02:09:36,360
We did, as was noted, engage all these different experts and conduct all these various studies.

1336
02:09:37,020 --> 02:09:41,060
We have them sitting there and binders on the end of the table in case we need to refer to them.

1337
02:09:41,320 --> 02:09:48,820
And this might be a good opportunity for me to mention that not all of those studies are in the 77 attachments to your packet.

1338
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:52,140
Nor is every single document that is in the planning file.

1339
02:09:52,420 --> 02:09:57,620
That would as a result be, you know, way too voluminous for you to reasonably review and a preparation for this hearing.

1340
02:09:57,620 --> 02:10:06,520
If litigation were to commence, as I understand is being referenced by the opponents and their presentation later today,

1341
02:10:07,340 --> 02:10:10,840
and there were to be a discussion with the court over what constitutes the record.

1342
02:10:11,200 --> 02:10:17,800
That would be defined by a colorless civil procedure 106A4, and we can engage in a debate about that at the appropriate time,

1343
02:10:18,460 --> 02:10:26,260
point being that all of these studies are part of the record, even though they may not have been attached to your packet today as one of the 77,

1344
02:10:26,260 --> 02:10:31,960
And if you'd like us to refer to them, we're happy to do so, and we have all the experts here to answer any questions about them.

1345
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:40,760
Finally, we'd like to note that after lengthy discussion and conversation, we are in alignment with county staff.

1346
02:10:40,940 --> 02:10:46,940
We concur with the county staff report with their finding of a recommendation of approval of consistency and compatibility.

1347
02:10:47,660 --> 02:10:54,220
And we're also in alignment with all of the conditions of approval that were recommended by county staff in the staff report,

1348
02:10:54,220 --> 02:10:59,940
which I will also tell you in my experience with this many conditions of approval is not very common.

1349
02:11:01,060 --> 02:11:06,840
So with that I'd like to turn it over to our traffic expert to discuss the first criterion related to traffic.

1350
02:11:25,060 --> 02:11:27,820
All right, my name is Mike Olson.

1351
02:11:28,400 --> 02:11:30,000
I'm with Rotterdam Engineering.

1352
02:11:30,840 --> 02:11:32,380
My address is 1315.

1353
02:11:33,220 --> 02:11:36,880
I mean Avenue on Durango Suite 221.

1354
02:11:38,380 --> 02:11:42,960
been working with GCC for a number of years now on addressing traffic issues.

1355
02:11:44,560 --> 02:11:50,300
In this particular, for the presentation, I want to focus on this particular first slide

1356
02:11:50,300 --> 02:11:57,380
here, which talks about the county's code requirement and section 82-193-C2A.

1357
02:11:57,800 --> 02:12:02,460
And that's really the traffic generated by development will not create safety hazards,

1358
02:12:02,880 --> 02:12:07,340
create traffic which is beyond the capacity of the effective roads or results in substantial

1359
02:12:07,340 --> 02:12:10,620
increases over existing traffic visors.

1360
02:12:11,900 --> 02:12:14,200
The first thing I'd like to address is safety.

1361
02:12:16,300 --> 02:12:21,680
And when I work, I work with policies and guidelines that are

1362
02:12:21,680 --> 02:12:25,740
accepted by the engineering field along with raw data.

1363
02:12:26,240 --> 02:12:28,820
And raw data is reflected here on this particular site.

1364
02:12:28,820 --> 02:12:34,900
slide. The this particular graph or the this this this comms here give a

1365
02:12:34,900 --> 02:12:42,480
detail by year on the average average trucks loaded trucks per day. And as

1366
02:12:42,480 --> 02:12:49,580
you can see from 2011 you had 69 trucks and they've increased by year to

1367
02:12:49,580 --> 02:12:58,340
72, 2013 as 84, 2014 had average of 110 trucks and this past year had an average

1368
02:12:58,340 --> 02:13:03,500
of 93 trucks. What is of interest is the accidents on

1369
02:13:03,500 --> 02:13:09,260
Canada at 1.20 North. As you, the corresponding levels go from three

1370
02:13:09,260 --> 02:13:13,140
accidents involving the or three accidents on 1.20 North,

1371
02:13:13,600 --> 02:13:19,480
action involving GCC is zero and they increase and as they increase,

1372
02:13:20,680 --> 02:13:25,520
GCC started putting in interim measures to address traffic impacts.

1373
02:13:26,940 --> 02:13:34,420
In 2014, we had 110 trucks per day, accidents on 1,20 North, there are 4.

1374
02:13:36,220 --> 02:13:38,820
Axe and Volum GCC was 1.

1375
02:13:40,360 --> 02:13:46,460
Most of the existing interim measures were in place now as reflected here in 2015.

1376
02:13:46,460 --> 02:13:57,120
there are 93 trucks a day. Axis on 22 north zero. Axis and Bobby GCC zero. That's a significant

1377
02:13:57,120 --> 02:14:03,280
improvement there and then actually reflects directly on the involvement and GCC has been

1378
02:14:03,280 --> 02:14:12,840
with the trucking. Most of the information that I evaluated is combining our report for traffic

1379
02:14:12,840 --> 02:14:16,580
impact assessment they didn't November 18, 2015.

1380
02:14:18,520 --> 02:14:24,940
With that, it identifies the improvements and identifies impacts of the mind and the corresponding

1381
02:14:24,940 --> 02:14:25,660
improvements.

1382
02:14:26,780 --> 02:14:32,620
What GCSE's committed to is approximately $10 million in road improvements, this includes

1383
02:14:32,620 --> 02:14:38,940
the highway at one intersection at the state intersection 140 and counter at 120.

1384
02:14:40,200 --> 02:14:47,560
It also reflects the agreed to reduction of haul truckloads to 80 trucks per day, and that's

1385
02:14:47,560 --> 02:14:55,520
considered based on the RA and that RA was a agreement that was worked through between

1386
02:14:55,520 --> 02:14:59,980
the county and GCC, and then also includes the maintenance phase.

1387
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:06,900
We have 12 sets of time with escalation, and correctly noted by Jim Davis of that reflects maintenance

1388
02:15:06,900 --> 02:15:16,440
levels. Also, the includes ship ceiling of the asphalt roadways. It does not – this

1389
02:15:16,440 --> 02:15:20,440
separate 10 million actually addresses the actual roadway improvements.

1390
02:15:27,180 --> 02:15:28,320
So we've talked

1391
02:15:28,320 --> 02:15:34,840
It's just briefly the stark use of 120 that's, we've been on using the trans, it's been

1392
02:15:34,840 --> 02:15:40,500
used for transporting coal in and out, and at periodic times they've tried using the southern

1393
02:15:40,500 --> 02:15:48,920
approach, which is 119, 116 up to 12 south, pass a mine, and then out on 12 north.

1394
02:15:49,580 --> 02:15:53,880
Also been looked at as using just strictly 120, the north and south.

1395
02:15:54,780 --> 02:16:03,520
Each, they try twice, and each time based on internal policies and also discussions with

1396
02:16:03,520 --> 02:16:09,880
local representation representatives of agencies such as Dranglefin Rescue, they have

1397
02:16:09,880 --> 02:16:15,400
concluded that using the Southern approaches is, they have multiple incidents, and that

1398
02:16:15,400 --> 02:16:19,760
was part of the decision was made to use the 120 North solely.

1399
02:16:26,860 --> 02:16:34,680
And I just want to make a note here, 120 south and 119 specifically going into the intersection

1400
02:16:34,680 --> 02:16:43,980
of 120, excuse the 119 and state highway 140, if you use it, that but to go into intersection.

1401
02:16:44,200 --> 02:16:51,760
It said a skew and actually got deposited into adjacent to the Fortless Mason School.

1402
02:16:51,760 --> 02:16:58,620
That's one of the areas that was addressed, and it was, you try not to have a particular

1403
02:16:58,620 --> 02:17:03,740
situation where you create a safety concern at a school district along with other places,

1404
02:17:04,420 --> 02:17:09,940
but this was one of the reasons that we, there was made to move trucks to the north that

1405
02:17:09,940 --> 02:17:14,620
would eliminate some of the safety concerns that would exist at the school.

1406
02:17:15,970 --> 02:17:18,410
So we looked at six different options.

1407
02:17:20,370 --> 02:17:23,610
The option is being staying on 120 north.

1408
02:17:24,230 --> 02:17:29,430
Second option was making a loop system where you'd use 120 south to 120 north.

1409
02:17:30,430 --> 02:17:34,530
The second loop system was evaluated based on using 120 north.

1410
02:17:34,870 --> 02:17:37,750
116, 119 loop.

1411
02:17:39,370 --> 02:17:44,250
The third, I mean, a fourth option would be a data located hall route that would actually go

1412
02:17:44,250 --> 02:17:49,510
that would run a classical across the state landboard lands and then deposit approximately

1413
02:17:49,510 --> 02:17:56,830
the location of the King one site and then proceed onto the section of the county road

1414
02:17:56,830 --> 02:18:05,010
one twenty north that's west of the existing residences. The fifth was putting in a

1415
02:18:05,010 --> 02:18:11,110
dedicated hall route which matches the across the state landboard across private lands and

1416
02:18:11,110 --> 02:18:16,610
Then it would actually be to a conveyor point, which would take the product and move it from

1417
02:18:16,610 --> 02:18:22,470
the facility up to the top of the ridge and then it would actually be brought on to

1418
02:18:22,470 --> 02:18:25,350
co-trucks at that time and co-trucks and move out.

1419
02:18:25,570 --> 02:18:31,510
And the last option would be using a conveyor from the mine site to approximately intersection

1420
02:18:31,510 --> 02:18:41,190
of kind of a 120 state highway 140 at that point, it would actually be loaded on to trucks

1421
02:18:41,190 --> 02:18:43,290
and distributed on the public ways.

1422
02:18:49,910 --> 02:18:58,750
Right here, that we focused on were population road geometry, accident records, and time.

1423
02:19:01,230 --> 02:19:06,050
The cost was also played on the role, but that was not the governing factor.

1424
02:19:06,050 --> 02:19:10,190
It was these four factors that were evaluated as part of this.

1425
02:19:12,560 --> 02:19:13,320
So population.

1426
02:19:18,220 --> 02:19:24,880
This map is a great representation of where the population exists out in this 120 area.

1427
02:19:25,020 --> 02:19:31,320
As you can see by the, there's a sort of a beige, yellowish tinge square.

1428
02:19:31,760 --> 02:19:34,640
And that's the location of the mind itself.

1429
02:19:38,080 --> 02:19:44,660
South of the mind is approximately three times as many residents as north and west of the mind.

1430
02:19:52,340 --> 02:20:05,360
But the road geometry, and this is simplified, but with it, it reflects, we've identified places that, with dots, and those dot representations are intersections with county roads.

1431
02:20:06,400 --> 02:20:11,160
corners of the excess of 8%, 90-degree corners.

1432
02:20:12,300 --> 02:20:17,400
The reason those particular points from noted is as there are typically areas that you

1433
02:20:17,400 --> 02:20:19,260
have concerns with safety.

1434
02:20:21,000 --> 02:20:28,320
On this, with this evaluation, as you can see, the Robe Geometry 120 North in Simplified

1435
02:20:28,320 --> 02:20:37,660
Again, as seven dots, one twenty-south has eleven dots, one nineteen one sixty-one twenty-south has eleven dots.

1436
02:20:38,440 --> 02:20:46,040
So in effect, with this rotary joul adjustment, you have a safer road going to the north.

1437
02:20:53,920 --> 02:21:01,200
Looked at exit records, identified some locations that were then needed to be addressed as part of any

1438
02:21:01,200 --> 02:21:10,280
profits, with that, through the summary criteria, is that I'm going to go back to

1439
02:21:10,280 --> 02:21:16,540
a bit, the action records showed locations of high action rates.

1440
02:21:16,880 --> 02:21:20,560
I'm going to ignore that's two locations of 90-degree corner, and that's what it's

1441
02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:20,800
far.

1442
02:21:21,640 --> 02:21:26,760
I'm going to tell you, South, you've got two locations there at that are 90-degree

1443
02:21:26,760 --> 02:21:34,600
I think that as part of your tour of the site out there on the county road system that may have been

1444
02:21:34,600 --> 02:21:45,920
identified with Jim Davis noting either excessive grade or 90 quarters or places where you've got intersections with existing kind of roads.

1445
02:21:47,940 --> 02:21:50,600
One thing I didn't mention was the permitting time.

1446
02:21:51,420 --> 02:21:55,900
By having a dedicated hall route, you're looking at the environmental requirements,

1447
02:21:55,900 --> 02:22:04,280
the archeological requirements, the assessments on what, in fact, that in establishing a roadway,

1448
02:22:05,020 --> 02:22:10,440
and that takes time, it takes a significant amount of time, and that, and using a

1449
02:22:10,440 --> 02:22:16,720
hollowed across the state landboard lands, though they agreed to allow us to, by the way,

1450
02:22:17,120 --> 02:22:21,680
just briefly as part of our option assessment, they are not supportive of it.

1451
02:22:22,780 --> 02:22:29,940
So with that, you're looking just to get in place in any type of a whole route, you know,

1452
02:22:29,940 --> 02:22:35,840
we've noted here, greater than five years. That's probably right. And so that you're,

1453
02:22:35,980 --> 02:22:41,620
we're looking to try to make an immediate, medium impact, immediate improvements to address

1454
02:22:41,620 --> 02:22:50,820
the king to trucking. So on this also, this particular slide, we've made a note here

1455
02:22:50,820 --> 02:22:58,940
that as part of the Fort Lewis Mace of Fire District letter data 1-15 or January 15, 2016,

1456
02:22:59,460 --> 02:23:06,200
an alternate route of Canterbury, 12 South, North Loop, and 121-161-19 Loop,

1457
02:23:06,420 --> 02:23:11,780
are less safe, that's due to lower visibility, more intersections, hills, greater populations,

1458
02:23:11,780 --> 02:23:19,200
actions schools, their assessment is consistent with my assessment that that is less

1459
02:23:19,200 --> 02:23:21,540
desirable than using a 120-north.

1460
02:23:25,550 --> 02:23:33,390
So, so this is, again, the road improvement of the

1461
02:23:33,390 --> 02:23:40,710
truck limits that Daniel provided to us and that does a great job on actor and

1462
02:23:40,710 --> 02:23:48,570
electing what in fact is going to happen based on the timing. One question was, this inter-paving,

1463
02:23:49,250 --> 02:23:54,410
that's extending the paving from the end of the existing paving, which is approximately

1464
02:23:54,410 --> 02:24:02,430
miles opposed to 2.5, to approximately 5,000 feet close to a mile west. Where does that

1465
02:24:02,430 --> 02:24:09,810
actually, where does that stop? It's intended to stop west of the Huntsinger Park, partial.

1466
02:24:09,810 --> 02:24:16,550
Well, the reason for that is that there is a corner in the corner in the existing alignment

1467
02:24:16,550 --> 02:24:25,750
of the road is the wind runs from west to east and we want to capture, we want to

1468
02:24:25,750 --> 02:24:32,050
pave beyond that corner so that you don't generate dust as trucks go around that corner

1469
02:24:32,050 --> 02:24:39,730
and actually proceeds down the big gulps, and that's where the existing dust problems occur.

1470
02:24:40,330 --> 02:24:47,830
So by paving around the corner, that should address the dust that is airborne, that

1471
02:24:47,830 --> 02:24:51,370
actually is captured and proceeds each bound.

1472
02:24:54,750 --> 02:25:01,950
The phasing has been addressed with the also, I'm going to miss that back.

1473
02:25:02,270 --> 02:25:03,210
So that's the inter-paving.

1474
02:25:03,570 --> 02:25:04,470
It's a three-inch mat.

1475
02:25:04,810 --> 02:25:07,870
That's when I say mat, that's a, on the thickness of the asphalt.

1476
02:25:08,490 --> 02:25:10,430
It's supposed to be 24-foot wide.

1477
02:25:10,870 --> 02:25:14,730
It's intended to be wide in some places where they currently have some tight corners, and

1478
02:25:14,730 --> 02:25:20,170
also be tight and wide, so that it allows for some parking air at the hunting or

1479
02:25:21,310 --> 02:25:22,930
I will address drainage.

1480
02:25:24,950 --> 02:25:28,150
There was a recommendation from LSC.

1481
02:25:28,390 --> 02:25:33,590
I was a traffic soldier that put signing flashing signs there at the

1482
02:25:33,590 --> 02:25:37,770
Narrows and also at the ulti-smart as an interim measure.

1483
02:25:38,810 --> 02:25:39,470
That is great.

1484
02:25:40,170 --> 02:25:41,570
So that's part of the interim measure.

1485
02:25:41,810 --> 02:25:46,810
The things one is to put in flashing signs that will allow for people

1486
02:25:46,810 --> 02:25:52,890
traveling on one choice, that will note that if there's another vehicle within that section

1487
02:25:52,890 --> 02:25:56,890
and road section, so it's because of sight distances as are limited.

1488
02:25:57,910 --> 02:26:01,830
And so at the WillTee's part, I'm going to use the term WillTee's part because that's generally

1489
02:26:01,830 --> 02:26:02,690
what it's discussed.

1490
02:26:03,490 --> 02:26:09,170
But that area, along with the narrowes, will be installing flashing warning signs for approaching

1491
02:26:09,170 --> 02:26:09,810
vehicles.

1492
02:26:15,400 --> 02:26:17,400
That term, I'd like to turn back over to Carolyn.

1493
02:26:17,400 --> 02:26:17,980
The

1494
02:26:27,190 --> 02:26:35,330
next portion of our presentation, we'd like to briefly give you a high level overview of each of the criteria and how the studies demonstrate that these criteria are met.

1495
02:26:35,850 --> 02:26:40,690
Now, necessarily, there's a lot of detail and we're not going to be able to cover all of it within the time allotted.

1496
02:26:41,050 --> 02:26:45,230
These slides are admittedly full of a lot of text and a little crowded.

1497
02:26:45,570 --> 02:26:53,690
I'm going to give you just a quick summary and then we can come back to this and engage in as much detail as you'd care to during the question and answer period.

1498
02:26:53,690 --> 02:27:00,070
The next criteria we're addressing is the one referenced by staff in their table and that is that

1499
02:27:00,070 --> 02:27:05,070
any one of the following will not disturb the neighbor's noise, odor smoke, dust vibration, et cetera.

1500
02:27:06,690 --> 02:27:13,630
The ones that have been focused on the most in this criterion are noise dust and vibration and that's where we'll spend the most time, obviously.

1501
02:27:13,630 --> 02:27:20,950
The first four bullets on this slide, all reference studies which relate to noise and vibration

1502
02:27:21,630 --> 02:27:27,590
at the mind. So these are on the site of the mind, not along the roadway. And all of these

1503
02:27:27,590 --> 02:27:33,770
studies concluded that there was no measurable noise or vibration exceeding appropriate standards

1504
02:27:33,770 --> 02:27:43,610
at the mind itself. Really, the majority of the conversation is focused on the roadway, and that's where

1505
02:27:43,610 --> 02:27:47,470
related to noise and vibration at the mine our attachment 12 in your packet.

1506
02:27:48,550 --> 02:27:52,290
The other studies that were conducted and that are summarized on this slide address really

1507
02:27:52,290 --> 02:27:56,650
the issue of truck traffic, the noise dust and vibration emanating from trucks traveling

1508
02:27:56,650 --> 02:27:58,790
along county road 12 north.

1509
02:28:00,490 --> 02:28:05,450
In addition to the study performed by GCC's consultant wave engineering, the county then retained

1510
02:28:05,450 --> 02:28:11,530
Dr. A. Minimarton to perform a third party analysis of GCC's noise study, that analysis

1511
02:28:11,530 --> 02:28:14,210
This is an attachment 15 to the staff report.

1512
02:28:15,210 --> 02:28:19,790
And although Dr. Martin did recommend certain additional measures and certain additional

1513
02:28:19,790 --> 02:28:24,910
studies we conducted, they did not fundamentally disagree with certain other conclusions

1514
02:28:24,910 --> 02:28:30,630
in GCC's study for example, the 86DBA that was discussed earlier, being used as the appropriate

1515
02:28:30,630 --> 02:28:35,870
standard to measure the noise emanating from truck traffic along county road 12 north.

1516
02:28:36,670 --> 02:28:43,990
Way of engineering then performed a follow-up study in January 2016 to address the additional areas of study recommended by Dr.

1517
02:28:44,070 --> 02:28:52,090
A. Minimarten. That study is attachment 13 to the staff report and all of these studies concluded that the trucks along

1518
02:28:52,090 --> 02:28:57,730
120 North will meet the state standard of 86 DBA measured at 50 feet from the center line at the highway.

1519
02:28:57,730 --> 02:29:06,290
So when we talk about the proposal that additional buffering be installed in certain locations to protect individual private residences,

1520
02:29:06,850 --> 02:29:20,790
these are additional measures being recommended by the county and agreed to by GCC in order to further reduce the noise experience at those properties below the 86 which it already will meet even without the buffering.

1521
02:29:21,310 --> 02:29:27,450
So I want to be real clear on that. The buffering is proposed to further reduce the noise experience below the standard,

1522
02:29:27,450 --> 02:29:30,170
which is already met without the buffering measures.

1523
02:29:30,690 --> 02:29:32,750
The modeling indicates that that would be somewhere

1524
02:29:32,750 --> 02:29:35,290
as was mentioned in the neighborhood of 4 to 9 DBA,

1525
02:29:35,310 --> 02:29:37,270
depending on the situation.

1526
02:29:37,890 --> 02:29:40,270
The question was asked commissioner about what would happen

1527
02:29:40,270 --> 02:29:43,150
if actual situation on the ground

1528
02:29:43,150 --> 02:29:45,890
turned not to be the case if the buffering war installed

1529
02:29:45,890 --> 02:29:47,110
and it didn't further mitigate.

1530
02:29:47,670 --> 02:29:50,150
That obviously would be a situation where

1531
02:29:50,150 --> 02:29:51,770
pursuant to your normal code enforcement

1532
02:29:51,770 --> 02:29:54,610
you would have the ability to that property owner

1533
02:29:54,610 --> 02:29:57,310
would notify the county that they were experiencing

1534
02:29:57,310 --> 02:29:59,970
noise levels, which they felt succeeded the standard, the cap...

1535
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:04,280
And they would probably send someone out to take a measurement. And if it did exceed the standard, then you

1536
02:30:04,280 --> 02:30:04,600
could,

1537
02:30:08,300 --> 02:30:12,200
through your normal code enforcement. Process.

1538
02:30:15,990 --> 02:30:17,370
I'd like to move on to dust.

1539
02:30:19,850 --> 02:30:20,710
All of the studies

1540
02:30:20,710 --> 02:30:25,550
concluded that the dust that is generated both at the mine site and along County Road 120 North

1541
02:30:25,550 --> 02:30:30,790
does not exceed the applicable standards. We understand that the neighbors have submitted a study

1542
02:30:30,790 --> 02:30:36,670
which modeled that those standards would, in fact, be exceeded, our expert disagrees with

1543
02:30:36,670 --> 02:30:40,510
some of the methodologies used by their expert, and we can get into that detail if you

1544
02:30:40,510 --> 02:30:40,990
would like.

1545
02:30:41,690 --> 02:30:46,250
But one of the key and most important factors here is that the principle reason for dust to

1546
02:30:46,250 --> 02:30:50,290
be experienced along County Road 12 North is, of course, the fact that that road is not

1547
02:30:50,290 --> 02:30:51,170
paved at present.

1548
02:30:51,690 --> 02:30:57,030
And if this permanent is approved, the immediate obligation on GCC is to pave that stretch

1549
02:30:57,030 --> 02:31:02,210
road that was highlighted in blue on the prior slide, and that paving will virtually eliminate

1550
02:31:02,210 --> 02:31:07,750
the dust situation in that stretch. And so, yes, it is true that the situation can

1551
02:31:07,750 --> 02:31:12,570
be continued to be monitored, and if additional dust which violates the standard is noticed,

1552
02:31:13,730 --> 02:31:17,910
and demonstrated by the county, then additional enforcement can be taken. But the reason

1553
02:31:17,910 --> 02:31:23,470
that situation exists today is because of the fact that this road is not paved, and GCCC is already

1554
02:31:23,470 --> 02:31:29,370
engaging in significant interim mitigation measures to address that and they will continue

1555
02:31:29,370 --> 02:31:33,850
to engage in those interim mitigation measures up to and through the date when the

1556
02:31:33,850 --> 02:31:38,750
paving is complete and those mitigation measures include watering up to four times a day

1557
02:31:38,750 --> 02:31:45,110
when it's necessary based on weather conditions. Right now that paving is scheduled to start

1558
02:31:45,110 --> 02:31:46,850
in June if this permit is approved.

1559
02:31:49,890 --> 02:31:53,010
I'd like to briefly also address the buffering options.

1560
02:31:53,690 --> 02:32:04,450
It was suggested in the one of the various studies that, for the noise reduction, could be achieved by the installation of buffering visual and noise buffering along certain of the affected properties.

1561
02:32:04,990 --> 02:32:08,030
GCC has agreed as a condition of approval to make that available.

1562
02:32:08,530 --> 02:32:17,370
I want to be clear that this is solely at the election of the affected property owners if they choose not to have buffers installed along their property, then no buffers will be installed.

1563
02:32:17,370 --> 02:32:23,870
it is purely optional for them, if they like to have the buffers installed, GCC will do so at their own expense,

1564
02:32:26,530 --> 02:32:34,530
and the window during which they have to elect that is from the approval of the permit up through and concluding the completion of the very last phase of construction.

1565
02:32:35,030 --> 02:32:45,450
In other words, they have the ability to change their mind later in the process if they would prefer not to have the buffering installed today, but want to wait and see whether they're paving in the other measures.

1566
02:32:46,250 --> 02:32:51,450
suitably address their concerns or whether they would like to then add the buffering later on in the process.

1567
02:32:56,260 --> 02:33:01,600
In addition, I'll just mention this new condition of approval that was added since the planning commission to which GCC has agreed,

1568
02:33:02,100 --> 02:33:14,200
which is that if the county determines its necessary and appropriate, it may retain an additional expert at GCC's expense to assist the county in evaluating the efficacy of the various buffering options being considered.

1569
02:33:16,000 --> 02:33:21,520
Here's a sample of some of the potential types of buffering which are available, and these

1570
02:33:21,520 --> 02:33:26,720
are attachment 61 in your staff report if you'd like to look at them in further detail.

1571
02:33:32,500 --> 02:33:38,020
The last one on that list about none of the following shall effect the neighbors was hours

1572
02:33:38,020 --> 02:33:38,680
of operation.

1573
02:33:39,340 --> 02:33:43,980
This slide briefly summarizes the reductions in hours of operation that GCC has agreed

1574
02:33:43,980 --> 02:33:45,340
to as conditions of approval.

1575
02:33:45,340 --> 02:33:53,400
This affects, principally, the use of county road 12 north and no truck traffic on Sundays and

1576
02:33:53,400 --> 02:34:00,980
clustering of truck traffic, 80% of the truck traffic, traffic during daylight hours with only 20% distributed through the evening hours.

1577
02:34:01,580 --> 02:34:08,360
And those are the proposed mitigations in order to ensure that the hours of operation of this facility will not disturb the neighbors.

1578
02:34:08,360 --> 02:34:09,200
Next

1579
02:34:13,420 --> 02:34:16,400
criteria and addresses adverse and unsightly views.

1580
02:34:16,540 --> 02:34:20,780
The mine operation itself, you saw a photograph of it earlier, and you saw it in your site

1581
02:34:20,780 --> 02:34:21,380
visit as well.

1582
02:34:21,580 --> 02:34:22,680
It's located up a drainage.

1583
02:34:23,140 --> 02:34:28,180
It's really not visible, certainly from any private residences and barely visible from

1584
02:34:28,180 --> 02:34:29,380
county road 120 north.

1585
02:34:29,820 --> 02:34:33,480
We're really mostly, as with the rest of this application, talking about the truck traffic

1586
02:34:33,480 --> 02:34:37,020
on county road 120 north, not the mine operation itself.

1587
02:34:37,020 --> 02:34:43,220
If the individual affected neighbors who may have some visual impacts from truck traffic so

1588
02:34:43,220 --> 02:34:47,860
it lacked, they could have a buffering as an additional option to mitigate this impact.

1589
02:34:51,950 --> 02:34:56,990
Another criterion is that the development will not cause pollution of ground or surface waters.

1590
02:34:59,170 --> 02:35:03,610
As was noted by Mr. Peterson at the beginning of our presentation, unlike many coal mines,

1591
02:35:04,030 --> 02:35:09,950
the water table in this case is below the coal seam and therefore no water is encountered in the process of mining.

1592
02:35:09,950 --> 02:35:16,410
This greatly reduces the potential for there to be ground water contamination just in the first place as a practical matter.

1593
02:35:17,010 --> 02:35:23,230
But additionally, this slide summarizes many of these studies that were conducted, which also reads the same conclusion,

1594
02:35:23,570 --> 02:35:28,010
namely that there is no negative impact on groundwater as a result of the mining operation.

1595
02:35:28,810 --> 02:35:33,170
Further, as was explained by staff, as part of the other permit requirements,

1596
02:35:33,170 --> 02:35:39,490
GCCC will be engaging in ongoing groundwater monitoring through the drilling of a number of ground

1597
02:35:39,490 --> 02:35:45,350
monitor groundwater monitoring wells, and if you'd like to ask some more questions or

1598
02:35:45,350 --> 02:35:51,370
have more detail about exactly how that ongoing groundwater monitoring will work, we have the

1599
02:35:51,370 --> 02:35:58,070
appropriate person here to answer those questions. But the data that has been collected so far

1600
02:35:58,070 --> 02:36:03,150
demonstrates that there is no negative operation on groundwater quality today as a result of

1601
02:36:03,150 --> 02:36:08,410
operations and that report is attachment 22 to the staff report.

1602
02:36:11,020 --> 02:36:16,100
The next criterion is that the development will not adversely change the character of the

1603
02:36:16,100 --> 02:36:16,660
neighborhood.

1604
02:36:18,740 --> 02:36:23,740
This is something which obviously is a more qualitative type of standard for you to review,

1605
02:36:24,260 --> 02:36:28,800
but it should be noted that resource distraction is inherently compatible with the rural character

1606
02:36:28,800 --> 02:36:33,020
of the area and so far as it's been occurring in this location, depending on who you ask

1607
02:36:33,020 --> 02:36:40,680
at least 41, if not 1939, it's been here for a very, very long time.

1608
02:36:41,160 --> 02:36:47,080
It's been compatible with ranching since the late 1800s when both of these uses were existing

1609
02:36:47,080 --> 02:36:51,040
compatible together in this location and have been ever since then.

1610
02:36:51,260 --> 02:36:56,000
If there is a recent change, it's really that this area has become slightly more residential

1611
02:36:56,000 --> 02:37:02,040
with additional folks choosing to make this area their home as well as an area for ranching and mining.

1612
02:37:02,040 --> 02:37:04,560
and other similar resource extraction operations.

1613
02:37:08,630 --> 02:37:10,110
The next criteria is privacy.

1614
02:37:10,450 --> 02:37:14,750
This is a similar analysis to views, and I won't repeat what we've already said,

1615
02:37:15,050 --> 02:37:19,350
other than to note that the mine operation itself has virtually no impact on the privacy

1616
02:37:19,350 --> 02:37:21,230
of any individual property owners.

1617
02:37:21,370 --> 02:37:22,730
It's not visible from their property.

1618
02:37:22,930 --> 02:37:24,870
They can't see if they can't hear it.

1619
02:37:25,050 --> 02:37:29,370
And we've already talked about the mitigation measures that are proposed to address any

1620
02:37:29,370 --> 02:37:33,590
concerns about privacy resulting from the use of county road 120 North as the

1621
02:37:33,590 --> 02:37:35,630
possible hall road for the truck traffic.

1622
02:37:38,580 --> 02:37:40,800
In conclusion, we believe that we have demonstrated

1623
02:37:40,800 --> 02:37:46,300
and the expert reports conclusively demonstrate that all of these criteria are met and that

1624
02:37:46,300 --> 02:37:53,680
the application meets the requirements for a class 2 land use permit. In addition, mitigation

1625
02:37:53,680 --> 02:37:58,220
is an appropriate measure for furthering compatibility and for determining whether or not

1626
02:37:58,220 --> 02:38:02,540
these criteria are met and we'd like to spend some time highlighting some of the mitigation

1627
02:38:02,540 --> 02:38:08,040
measures that have already been undertaken and are currently ongoing by GCC, as well as the

1628
02:38:08,040 --> 02:38:12,860
additional mitigation that will be engaged in as conditions of approval if this permit

1629
02:38:12,860 --> 02:38:13,560
is approved.

1630
02:38:14,040 --> 02:38:17,060
And to do that, I will hand the microphone back over to Trent Peterson.

1631
02:38:35,230 --> 02:38:36,050
Thank you.

1632
02:38:40,700 --> 02:38:46,160
Over the last several years, and a number of them just in the last year or two, there have been

1633
02:38:46,160 --> 02:38:52,020
a number of mitigation measures already completed at the responsive, also the community.

1634
02:38:54,100 --> 02:38:59,320
We've committed not to develop groundwater wells as it was stated earlier in response to a

1635
02:38:59,320 --> 02:39:02,040
concern about potential groundwater depletion.

1636
02:39:02,820 --> 02:39:08,020
Reduce truck speeds to 10 miles per hour in front of key residences on unpaid sections

1637
02:39:08,020 --> 02:39:09,660
of the road to further mitigate.

1638
02:39:20,790 --> 02:39:25,710
That's a limitation which we intend to keep in place over the long term.

1639
02:39:26,190 --> 02:39:30,390
Several years ago prohibited the use of Jake Briggs on County Road 120.

1640
02:39:30,390 --> 02:39:35,510
Just over a year ago stopped all coal-holing on Sunday, so I think it's important to

1641
02:39:35,510 --> 02:39:42,290
point out there that the average daily truck trips or truck loads that Daniel Murray presented

1642
02:39:42,290 --> 02:39:45,250
earlier were based on seven day hauling.

1643
02:39:46,110 --> 02:39:55,730
So, in terms of scale, the largest volume in 2014 is comparable to the 120 day truck,

1644
02:39:55,730 --> 02:40:00,670
or 120 truck per day average that we're contemplating in the long term.

1645
02:40:03,680 --> 02:40:09,600
A doctor written policies on trucks being used to the road, conduct speed monitoring and management,

1646
02:40:10,340 --> 02:40:16,520
conduct in-person training, required numbers on trucks for rapid identification,

1647
02:40:18,840 --> 02:40:22,120
installed the direct dial hotline for people to report concerns.

1648
02:40:22,120 --> 02:40:34,120
Since it was installed there have been 25 calls received 7 of those from residents, 18 from GCC employees or from other truck drivers, all of those calls were followed up on.

1649
02:40:37,110 --> 02:40:42,070
Install trucks entering highway signs and county road 1 are in highway 140.

1650
02:40:43,470 --> 02:40:45,490
Reduced posted speed limits.

1651
02:40:46,850 --> 02:40:54,410
Installed a fan silencing device on the ventilation fan at the mine and I understand you were able to see that during the tour from the mezzanine on the east side.

1652
02:40:54,410 --> 02:40:57,330
of the main building, second floor,

1653
02:41:00,300 --> 02:41:02,020
completed the extension of the big stick ditch

1654
02:41:02,020 --> 02:41:09,640
culvert, last year, widen the pavement at the 90 degree corner going in. This was on

1655
02:41:09,640 --> 02:41:14,380
the first stop of your tour two weeks ago. The cars that vary where you're parked would

1656
02:41:14,380 --> 02:41:19,340
have actually been the truck lane for the incoming trucks.

1657
02:41:22,840 --> 02:41:24,160
I agreed not to stage trucks

1658
02:41:24,160 --> 02:41:30,240
at the 1-21-40 intersection, expanded the holding area at the mine, adopted a section

1659
02:41:30,240 --> 02:41:33,800
of County Road 120, and suspended trucking during snow events.

1660
02:41:36,200 --> 02:41:43,320
We've been watering the road up to four times a day to suppress dust, trim foliage to improve

1661
02:41:43,320 --> 02:41:50,180
site distance, and several of other mitigation measures here since 2015.

1662
02:41:56,620 --> 02:42:03,500
Beginning now, this summer there will be new flashing warning signs installed, no increase

1663
02:42:03,500 --> 02:42:10,260
in the 80 truck limit until the road is paved and several ongoing mitigation measures.

1664
02:42:18,350 --> 02:42:22,850
What I emphasize that GCCC is a responsible part of the community.

1665
02:42:24,110 --> 02:42:28,230
It's our mission to operate at the highest levels of safety and integrity, provide jobs

1666
02:42:28,230 --> 02:42:33,930
employees and economic benefits to the county. So I mentioned earlier, we have an excellent

1667
02:42:33,930 --> 02:42:39,930
safety record. We've worked cooperatively with the county and the neighbors and paid experts to

1668
02:42:39,930 --> 02:42:46,130
analyze a number of areas of concern and put a number of mitigation measures in place already.

1669
02:42:52,470 --> 02:42:59,710
Since statistics, in addition to approximately $390,000 in county taxes paid in 2014,

1670
02:43:00,450 --> 02:43:05,830
about half of the $3.5 million in cool royalties has come back to the state of Colorado.

1671
02:43:06,630 --> 02:43:10,210
The bulk of that goes to the public schools of portion of it will go to the county.

1672
02:43:16,190 --> 02:43:21,590
In addition, we spend about $20 million dollars a year on transportation services locally

1673
02:43:21,590 --> 02:43:25,070
and about a million dollars a year to pay the low plot of electric.

1674
02:43:26,690 --> 02:43:29,250
We focused on truck traffic so far in truck counts,

1675
02:43:30,050 --> 02:43:33,370
but I think those are really important nexus to point out here that

1676
02:43:33,370 --> 02:43:38,070
We're not just talking about trucks, we're talking about jobs, and if there's a pretty clear

1677
02:43:38,070 --> 02:43:41,530
equivalence, see that one truck per day equals about three jobs.

1678
02:43:42,130 --> 02:43:50,210
One employee, one truck driver, one indirect community jobs, that basic number of 80 trucks per

1679
02:43:50,910 --> 02:43:55,790
day is what's required to pay for road improvements and continue to operate the mine.

1680
02:44:17,780 --> 02:44:23,400
In conclusion, we would just like to note that this application does meet all of the county

1681
02:44:23,400 --> 02:44:25,400
requirements for a class 2 land use permit.

1682
02:44:25,840 --> 02:44:32,160
If this application is approved, all of these bulleted items on this slide will occur.

1683
02:44:32,420 --> 02:44:37,500
$10 million a new road improvements on going maintenance fee permanent cap on the truck

1684
02:44:37,500 --> 02:44:38,020
numbers.

1685
02:44:38,700 --> 02:44:42,740
We believe we have demonstrated that all of the criteria are met and we ask for your favorable

1686
02:44:42,740 --> 02:44:45,420
approval of the class 2 land use permit.

1687
02:44:45,860 --> 02:44:51,640
As a matter of just process, I would also like to request that if the Board of County Commissioners

1688
02:44:51,640 --> 02:44:59,980
considers imposing additional conditions of approval beyond those which were addressed in the staff report we request the opportunity to address them later at that time

1689
02:45:00,460 --> 02:45:02,800
Thank you for your time and attention today.

1690
02:45:10,030 --> 02:45:14,490
Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. Commissioners, questions?

1691
02:45:25,730 --> 02:45:32,630
Thank you. I have a couple of questions. One is related to some.

1692
02:45:32,990 --> 02:45:36,030
There were a couple of things that were supposed to have happened by today.

1693
02:45:36,490 --> 02:45:42,290
And I was doing a check-in to see if they happened. One, I believe, had to do with design

1694
02:45:43,550 --> 02:45:51,250
designs being given to Seedot, and I think that's related to the 140 kind of room 120 intersection.

1695
02:45:51,590 --> 02:45:53,730
Can anybody have talk about that?

1696
02:45:53,910 --> 02:45:59,490
Commissioner Mr. Chairman, if I may, what we'll do is I'll just try to field them and get the right person to answer your question.

1697
02:46:00,210 --> 02:46:04,490
The short answer to that is yes, all of the things that we're required to have happened by today have happened.

1698
02:46:05,150 --> 02:46:10,430
Specifically as to the Seedot permit question, I would like to ask Mr. Olson to answer that.

1699
02:46:12,900 --> 02:46:20,060
I go Mike also with voter engineering, we're currently, they have not the final plans for review.

1700
02:46:20,340 --> 02:46:25,560
We're working with CDOT right now. We're addressing environmental to make sure that there's some in compliance.

1701
02:46:27,440 --> 02:46:31,220
This is part of interim process when they go through it.

1702
02:46:31,360 --> 02:46:34,380
We're working through the month of June to make that happen.

1703
02:46:35,200 --> 02:46:42,120
We had a day of June first to have everything in there, but we're working with CDOT right now.

1704
02:46:42,120 --> 02:46:52,240
And with the access permit, it has a termination date of July 4th, I think, and that was part

1705
02:46:52,240 --> 02:46:56,040
of working with C-DOT as they can comply with everything that they were requesting.

1706
02:46:57,660 --> 02:46:58,800
So it's not a black and white.

1707
02:46:58,840 --> 02:47:00,700
When you work with C-DOT, it's not black and white.

1708
02:47:00,960 --> 02:47:10,760
So you go through and you give information and they come back and so we are on task for meeting the requirements of the access permit.

1709
02:47:16,240 --> 02:47:30,220
I'll ask you, Mr. Olsen, you might be the best person to answer, with respect to where the conceptual plans are for the roadway, road improvements, why it's going to require.

1710
02:47:31,020 --> 02:47:42,420
We talked a little bit earlier about what a condemnation procedure would look like, but I think from my perspective, it's really right of way.

1711
02:47:42,420 --> 02:47:49,460
position is the first step and we would be looking at right away acquisition because the road

1712
02:47:49,460 --> 02:47:57,060
would be widened pretty much its entire length and in some places extra widened so to speak

1713
02:47:57,060 --> 02:48:03,100
I think to accommodate curves and other considerations. Is that a fair statement what I just said?

1714
02:48:04,140 --> 02:48:10,840
being clarified what you're currently the county is set up for a 60-foot right away.

1715
02:48:12,580 --> 02:48:19,440
And the way that the canner at 120 north is set up is that it's prescriptive views,

1716
02:48:19,960 --> 02:48:25,180
which means that there is not necessarily a document that says this is the right

1717
02:48:25,180 --> 02:48:33,800
way of the road, but it is, in effect, it's, from femsline to femsline. And a significant portion

1718
02:48:33,800 --> 02:48:40,240
of the existing road has 60 feet. And it's the intent that we would try to keep the alignment

1719
02:48:40,900 --> 02:48:46,800
on the final alignment as close to the existing alignment as we can. There will be areas of

1720
02:48:48,660 --> 02:48:56,120
that the alignment required, the desire required, some acquisition of additional width.

1721
02:48:57,120 --> 02:49:01,500
That being said, it's not intended that a full parcel, unless it's deemed that the parcel

1722
02:49:01,500 --> 02:49:05,840
is no longer usable, but it's intended that slivers will be acquired.

1723
02:49:07,060 --> 02:49:14,060
As with that, GCC, you know, for the, just being sort of simplified, GCC is going to pay

1724
02:49:14,060 --> 02:49:18,360
the bill, the county is going to go ahead on any type of right away this acquired or any

1725
02:49:18,360 --> 02:49:19,080
of a documentation.

1726
02:49:19,740 --> 02:49:21,220
It will be, in effect, for the county.

1727
02:49:21,380 --> 02:49:24,780
It will be a GCC will be, in effect, working for as an agent for the county.

1728
02:49:25,700 --> 02:49:30,880
So the intent being is, when we finally get this done, is that what currently have maybe

1729
02:49:30,880 --> 02:49:34,380
seven hundred feet of right away actually doesn't need right away out there for six

1730
02:49:34,380 --> 02:49:40,900
half miles, is intended that the county will have documentation that supports the right

1731
02:49:40,900 --> 02:49:47,880
whether it be permanent easement or or an actual right away fee deed for that full six and

1732
02:49:47,880 --> 02:49:51,640
half miles. Does that answer your question there?

1733
02:49:52,380 --> 02:50:03,780
Yeah, I mean that's I think you clarified the topic. What is is there any room and you might

1734
02:50:03,780 --> 02:50:10,480
not be right at the right person for this answer, but certainly at least the two of the

1735
02:50:10,480 --> 02:50:15,120
specific to the residences along the road that would be affected by this.

1736
02:50:15,660 --> 02:50:18,860
The proximity of the road exes it exists now.

1737
02:50:19,680 --> 02:50:23,220
To those residents certainly complicates things,

1738
02:50:23,440 --> 02:50:26,840
aggravates exacerbates negative impacts,

1739
02:50:26,860 --> 02:50:28,220
whether it's the dust or the noise.

1740
02:50:29,700 --> 02:50:31,020
Based on what you've done,

1741
02:50:31,800 --> 02:50:37,900
is there anything that makes you think that it would be possible to

1742
02:50:37,900 --> 02:50:42,080
have the new alignment even 20 feet further away from those

1743
02:50:42,080 --> 02:50:42,960
resonances.

1744
02:50:45,040 --> 02:50:46,100
The mic also again.

1745
02:50:46,840 --> 02:50:51,440
And what I can say now that the alignment will be in

1746
02:50:51,440 --> 02:50:54,000
closer that currently exists.

1747
02:50:55,720 --> 02:50:59,080
There is part of the next phase of analysis,

1748
02:50:59,900 --> 02:51:03,520
specifically at the end of the asphalt, starting at the

1749
02:51:03,520 --> 02:51:06,760
aggregate section of the roadway, it's intended to evaluate

1750
02:51:06,760 --> 02:51:12,440
an alternate alignment in that vicinity to improve the distance,

1751
02:51:15,140 --> 02:51:16,480
the separation between the

1752
02:51:16,480 --> 02:51:21,420
partial owner along with improve the geometry or the alignment of the vertical alignment

1753
02:51:21,420 --> 02:51:27,640
of the road going up to Robert's ridge. That will be part of the evaluation that's creating

1754
02:51:27,640 --> 02:51:34,980
a set of preliminary plans. The other resonance that's west of that location is difficult

1755
02:51:34,980 --> 02:51:42,660
because you've got a total slope that's right there adjacent, so it's anticipated that the actual

1756
02:51:42,660 --> 02:51:50,440
alignment will be no closer than it currently is, but to incorporate, it's probably going

1757
02:51:50,440 --> 02:51:55,300
to get into the hillside just a little bit there. And then with respect to the Roberts Ridge

1758
02:51:55,300 --> 02:52:02,360
vertical alignment, I don't know what that means. I'm sorry. What it means is they have a steep driveway.

1759
02:52:02,360 --> 02:52:03,100
I notice.

1760
02:52:04,940 --> 02:52:12,540
And they have very limited landing room when you come down the out the hill and so by evaluating

1761
02:52:12,540 --> 02:52:19,120
an alternate where you move the alignment of the county road to the south, that might

1762
02:52:19,120 --> 02:52:23,300
provide for additional landing zone for them to come down off the hill.

1763
02:52:23,760 --> 02:52:24,380
I thank you.

1764
02:52:24,420 --> 02:52:29,200
That was another aspect of my question you got to before I did.

1765
02:52:29,200 --> 02:52:33,100
I think that's it for my questions for you.

1766
02:52:33,140 --> 02:52:35,080
I did have a question for your sound person.

1767
02:52:36,740 --> 02:52:38,900
And this is a technical question.

1768
02:52:39,140 --> 02:52:40,820
I don't remember who the sound person was.

1769
02:52:41,100 --> 02:52:42,420
Okay, you're going to have to come up to my question.

1770
02:52:42,420 --> 02:52:43,540
I'm going to ask you, Wave Engineering.

1771
02:52:43,840 --> 02:52:44,820
We'll bring him up.

1772
02:52:45,020 --> 02:52:45,420
Thank you.

1773
02:52:47,380 --> 02:52:47,840
Yeah, sure.

1774
02:52:53,570 --> 02:52:56,670
You were my question earlier about the appropriate standard

1775
02:52:56,670 --> 02:52:58,090
for deciding compatibility.

1776
02:52:59,350 --> 02:53:00,510
And I'd need clarification.

1777
02:53:00,510 --> 02:53:12,270
the 86 decibels that are contemplated in this tap report versus the 50 that is the

1778
02:53:12,270 --> 02:53:21,810
HUD standard. Is the 86 an instant? Sound measurement or is it the average? It appeared to

1779
02:53:21,810 --> 02:53:27,850
mean reading the information that the HUD standard is an average over, I believe, daylight

1780
02:53:27,850 --> 02:53:35,270
or possibly over a period of hours, and is the 86 also an average of or a period of hours?

1781
02:53:37,970 --> 02:53:44,710
Commissioner Garmin, Jeff Kolkowski, Wave Engineering, 1100 West Littleton,

1782
02:53:44,730 --> 02:53:48,570
Boulevard, number 420, Littleton, Colorado, 8012.

1783
02:53:51,230 --> 02:53:54,970
The 86 of the B.A. standard that is in the

1784
02:53:54,970 --> 02:54:01,430
statute is essentially an instantaneous value that would be measured 50 feet from the

1785
02:54:01,430 --> 02:54:06,910
center line of the road as the vehicle passes by. So it's a very short duration

1786
02:54:07,490 --> 02:54:17,230
standard. You alluded to some research where you had seen that that was roughly about

1787
02:54:17,230 --> 02:54:24,150
the same as where you might get hearing damage or something. And that comes from OSHA,

1788
02:54:24,150 --> 02:54:31,070
the occupational safety and health administration has regulations on occupational noise and

1789
02:54:31,070 --> 02:54:39,270
there are threshold of 85 deaths, DBA or decibels, but that is an eight-hour time-weighted

1790
02:54:39,270 --> 02:54:39,590
average.

1791
02:54:39,750 --> 02:54:46,150
So that's the noise exposure of an employee over an eight-hour shift and that is just the

1792
02:54:46,150 --> 02:54:50,650
point at which they begin to look at mitigation or hearing conservation program or things

1793
02:54:50,650 --> 02:54:54,970
like that, that's not necessarily where hearing damage automatically occurs.

1794
02:54:56,530 --> 02:55:00,130
So the 86 DBA level is a very short term level.

1795
02:55:00,390 --> 02:55:03,190
So it's far from any kind of hearing damage threshold.

1796
02:55:03,890 --> 02:55:07,910
And just to let you know, we've measured during our study,

1797
02:55:08,850 --> 02:55:11,650
quite a few truck pass-bys along the road

1798
02:55:11,650 --> 02:55:14,110
at distances of 50 feet from the center line.

1799
02:55:15,170 --> 02:55:19,330
We did not measure any trucks that were over 80 DBA.

1800
02:55:19,330 --> 02:55:28,430
So, that is the state statute limit, the majority of the trucks are already well below that.

1801
02:55:45,160 --> 02:55:46,900
You want my trustee, Mike?

1802
02:55:49,920 --> 02:55:54,000
What speed were those trucks moving at approximately?

1803
02:55:54,000 --> 02:56:01,400
Was it before the rule to slow down really a lot in front of those houses?

1804
02:56:01,640 --> 02:56:03,520
Or was it when they were maintaining regular speeds?

1805
02:56:03,520 --> 02:56:07,660
Well, we measured under a variety of conditions.

1806
02:56:07,840 --> 02:56:11,580
So we measured on, along both the paved and the gravel portions of the road.

1807
02:56:12,560 --> 02:56:21,060
We measured on the paved road where the trucks were going at the post of speed limit,

1808
02:56:21,060 --> 02:56:26,120
which was already less than the same limit for cars on the same road.

1809
02:56:26,460 --> 02:56:31,120
So it was at the limits as they are now and as they would be going forward.

1810
02:56:31,120 --> 02:56:37,480
On the gravel road, we measured both near homes where the trucks were under the voluntary

1811
02:56:37,480 --> 02:56:43,820
limit of GCC's voluntary limit of 10 miles an hour near the homes, but we also measured

1812
02:56:43,820 --> 02:56:50,840
at other portions of the gravel road away from the homes where the truck limit was 25 miles

1813
02:56:50,840 --> 02:56:51,300
an hour.

1814
02:56:51,500 --> 02:56:53,260
So we measured under variety of conditions.

1815
02:56:53,260 --> 02:56:54,440
And

1816
02:56:57,200 --> 02:57:01,020
do you measure any non-coltruck traffic?

1817
02:57:01,380 --> 02:57:01,920
Yes.

1818
02:57:02,460 --> 02:57:04,700
And what did you find with that?

1819
02:57:05,000 --> 02:57:14,980
We found that many times the non-coltruck traffic, which might be an individual's passenger vehicle.

1820
02:57:15,120 --> 02:57:21,220
It might be a pickup truck, a private pickup truck or a commercial pickup truck or things.

1821
02:57:21,860 --> 02:57:28,660
So many times those sound levels are the same as or louder than the trucks just because they're going at much higher speeds.

1822
02:57:29,280 --> 02:57:40,980
So on the 35 mow an hour, or on the paved road, you know, they might be going 45 or 50 mow an hour, whereas the trucks are maintaining the 30 or 35 mow an hour limit.

1823
02:57:41,460 --> 02:57:47,220
Okay, thank you. I have one other question I think for this witness, but I...

1824
02:57:47,220 --> 02:57:52,220
Can you just, I think it was, no, it wasn't you, is the air quality person. You're okay.

1825
02:58:04,940 --> 02:58:07,700
And then you have an air quality person, is that correct?

1826
02:58:07,960 --> 02:58:09,440
Yes, let me ask him to come to the table.

1827
02:58:19,020 --> 02:58:20,820
Thank you, Mr. My name is Vinit Masura.

1828
02:58:20,820 --> 02:58:20,960
Yeah,

1829
02:58:24,350 --> 02:58:32,690
it's V-I-N-W-E-T, and last name is M-A-S-U-R-A-H-A, and I help on the air quality side, and

1830
02:58:32,690 --> 02:58:38,930
I live in Irvine, California, 33-06, Crescent Way.

1831
02:58:41,010 --> 02:58:41,190
Okay.

1832
02:58:41,190 --> 02:58:41,830
Thank you.

1833
02:58:42,230 --> 02:58:50,630
We did the Air Quality Monitoring, I think, report for GCC, and there was a different

1834
02:58:50,630 --> 02:58:53,570
air quality outcome or evaluation,

1835
02:58:55,670 --> 02:58:57,890
and I don't recall the name of the person who did that.

1836
02:58:57,970 --> 02:59:01,130
Ethan Mayer, I think it was from November of 2015, perhaps.

1837
02:59:01,510 --> 02:59:07,630
Do you familiar with kind of a review of your report and that came to different conclusions

1838
02:59:07,630 --> 02:59:08,990
and could you talk about that?

1839
02:59:09,430 --> 02:59:18,090
Yeah, I reviewed all three reports put together by the MMA, which also studied the air quality

1840
02:59:18,090 --> 02:59:48,070
And just to clarify, it's not air quality monitoring, it's air quality modeling, which is used using US EPA establish method, and both, I guess experts have used similar methods, it's just the inputs, which will be a little bit different, and that led to in my review, which I have identified on May 13, why I believe they are review, simply overestimate a lot of

1841
02:59:48,730 --> 02:59:56,890
PM-10 a mission which I guess model for 24 hour averaging period in my report as well as in their report too.

1842
03:00:01,900 --> 03:00:08,900
You can read different conclusions. Can you explain why your conclusions were different from theirs or?

1843
03:00:09,300 --> 03:00:15,960
Yeah, definitely. I'm not sure if my May 13 report is part of your binder or not.

1844
03:00:17,000 --> 03:00:18,760
It is an I'll tell you the number in just a second.

1845
03:00:19,400 --> 03:00:31,070
Okay, but I kind of actually answered the question there, but the big thing is in any of EPA method, there are a lot of, there's one method which is kind of a,

1846
03:00:31,890 --> 03:01:01,050
method used by everybody, but it's known as AP42, and AP42 uses many variables, so one of the key variable there is, you know, the silt content, how much is the silt in the unpaid road, which can get knocked around by the dust moving on the road, and you know, higher the silt content definitely the higher the PM10 emission would be, and it happens to be, as I identified in my method in report, the emissions are so high, if you just look at the

1847
03:01:01,050 --> 03:01:06,050
quantification what they have done, the other expert have done, it comes out to be around 600

1848
03:01:06,050 --> 03:01:12,130
tons per year of PM 10 emission. And I work with a lot of industrial facility, I have done work

1849
03:01:12,130 --> 03:01:17,430
with close to 20 years of building power, plant, cement plant, coal mining and all sort of mining.

1850
03:01:18,030 --> 03:01:31,030
I have never seen a four-mile stretch of which is kind of naturally unpaid road, it is actually

1851
03:01:31,030 --> 03:01:36,710
this would have been true, this would have been a very large source of, you know, PM-10

1852
03:01:36,710 --> 03:01:41,510
emission and CDPHE would have been very, very worried about all this, this would have been

1853
03:01:41,510 --> 03:01:47,270
a major source, this mine is not a major source, this is a minor source and 600 tons of

1854
03:01:47,270 --> 03:01:53,850
emission if you just put that in contest that would have required approximately 1 to 2 trucks

1855
03:01:53,850 --> 03:01:59,750
you would have to haul every month if you assume all that dust can be captured and then

1856
03:01:59,750 --> 03:02:04,910
put it in a truck, you would be hauling close to two trucks a month to haul that dust which

1857
03:02:04,910 --> 03:02:09,550
has been overestimated by the other other expert. And this road probably by this time would

1858
03:02:09,550 --> 03:02:15,510
have not even existed if that those numbers are true. And remember you see also puts a lot of

1859
03:02:15,510 --> 03:02:23,470
water here that water usually doubles the moisture content as I put in my report as well. If you put

1860
03:02:23,470 --> 03:02:31,010
approximately, you know, they are putting around 0.3 gallon per square yard, much of water

1861
03:02:31,010 --> 03:02:35,730
there. If you apply that much water, that basically doubles the moisture content. If you double

1862
03:02:35,730 --> 03:02:42,450
the moisture content, that approximately quits to 75 to 80 percent control. And remember,

1863
03:02:42,450 --> 03:02:48,590
paving, if you pay the road, that's approximately 95 to 99 percent control. That's why I believe

1864
03:02:48,590 --> 03:02:55,970
the other expert has over estimated the emission and also I want to point out the form I work

1865
03:02:55,970 --> 03:03:00,790
with Trinity Consultants we actually developed the model for EPA back and 40 years back.

1866
03:03:01,370 --> 03:03:06,690
So I am very familiar with how EPA has developed the model as well as not only in Colorado

1867
03:03:06,690 --> 03:03:12,650
we work all around the country with all the different minds as I said simply based on my review

1868
03:03:12,650 --> 03:03:18,410
of all the expert report put together by the MMA. It's way, way, way over-estimate all the PM-10

1869
03:03:18,410 --> 03:03:19,930
emission and therefore the impacts.

1870
03:03:21,350 --> 03:03:23,810
And the May 13 report that Mr. Mosser,

1871
03:03:28,950 --> 03:03:31,710
that's exhibit number 69 in your packet is the

1872
03:03:31,710 --> 03:03:35,730
May 13 2016 Supplemental Expert report from Mr. Mosser, Ahah.

1873
03:03:37,230 --> 03:03:44,270
And one more thing I'd like to point out when I hear the dust and in a couple of last hearing

1874
03:03:44,270 --> 03:03:48,690
have seen people bringing the pictures of the dust, you know, knocked by the trucks.

1875
03:03:49,430 --> 03:03:54,570
I just want to point out, the PM-10 standard, what EPA has established for PM-10, it's

1876
03:03:54,570 --> 03:03:56,370
a 24 hour average standard.

1877
03:03:57,310 --> 03:04:02,610
So you could see a dust right away, but that necessarily doesn't mean that it will cause

1878
03:04:02,610 --> 03:04:05,010
the violation of the EPA standard.

1879
03:04:05,010 --> 03:04:11,230
It has to be similar level of dust has to exist for 24 hour in order for somebody to

1880
03:04:11,230 --> 03:04:14,950
field some sort of primary secondary health related impact.

1881
03:04:15,550 --> 03:04:19,510
And there are region YEBA has established that 24-hour averaging period.

1882
03:04:19,910 --> 03:04:26,510
And I kind of little bit outline the history of YEBA has never changed the 24-hour averaging

1883
03:04:26,510 --> 03:04:27,090
period.

1884
03:04:27,690 --> 03:04:32,310
There are several pollutants for which EBA has established the sort of averaging period such

1885
03:04:32,310 --> 03:04:33,630
as one hour and three hour.

1886
03:04:33,870 --> 03:04:40,910
But for PM 10, after close to 60 years worth of history and the research EBA still uses

1887
03:04:40,910 --> 03:04:44,850
24 hours every evening period for PMT.

1888
03:04:45,290 --> 03:04:45,930
Thank you.

1889
03:04:51,400 --> 03:04:53,700
Mr. Chair, I do have a number of questions.

1890
03:04:54,040 --> 03:04:56,780
I want to know for the record it is a little afternoon.

1891
03:04:57,100 --> 03:05:02,020
I'm not sure if we want to take our break now and resume questions after the public comment

1892
03:05:02,020 --> 03:05:05,980
period or how what is the pleasure of the board.

1893
03:05:17,600 --> 03:05:18,160
Okay.

1894
03:05:20,160 --> 03:05:22,860
Thank you very much for your presentation.

1895
03:05:22,860 --> 03:05:30,940
I don't believe we establish for the record the address of GCCC in where GCCC is based

1896
03:05:30,940 --> 03:05:32,380
and what GCC stands for.

1897
03:05:34,600 --> 03:05:38,140
I'm going to ask Trent to do that as it relates to GCCC.

1898
03:05:43,290 --> 03:05:47,030
GCCC is an acronym for a group of cementals that you allow.

1899
03:05:47,710 --> 03:05:51,950
Group of cementals that you allow was founded in Chihuahua, Mexico in 1941.

1900
03:05:51,950 --> 03:05:59,210
on first-it-business in the United States in 1994, currently the U.S. division covers

1901
03:05:59,210 --> 03:06:07,650
a number of states, central rocky states, as well as mid-Western states. The U.S. division

1902
03:06:07,650 --> 03:06:17,230
headquarters for GCC of America is a 600-South Cherry Street Glendale, Colorado, 802-46,

1903
03:06:17,230 --> 03:06:31,410
I believe. Locally, GCCC Energy was formed in 2004 when GCCC bought the assets of the National King

1904
03:06:31,410 --> 03:06:40,830
coal mine. GCCC's local address is 6473 County Road 120, Hesperis, Colorado 81326.

1905
03:06:42,070 --> 03:06:48,470
Thank you very much, and I guess I'll follow on to that regarding the enforcement question

1906
03:06:48,470 --> 03:06:56,030
and our concern about enforcement and the fact that GCC is based in Mexico do the

1907
03:06:56,030 --> 03:07:01,730
local officials of the company have the authority to act on the company's behalf or is

1908
03:07:01,730 --> 03:07:07,850
this a chain of command that would take some time because we'd have to get a response from

1909
03:07:07,850 --> 03:07:11,870
to go to Denver to Hesperis.

1910
03:07:12,330 --> 03:07:16,030
Local officials have the authority to act on GCC's behalf.

1911
03:07:16,390 --> 03:07:17,590
Thank you very much.

1912
03:07:17,850 --> 03:07:22,570
And the U.S. division is a U.S. company license to do business in the United States.

1913
03:07:23,070 --> 03:07:24,350
Okay, thank you.

1914
03:07:33,890 --> 03:07:44,790
Regarding the truck drivers, are the truck drivers, GCC employees or is the company a subcontractor to GCC?

1915
03:07:44,790 --> 03:07:48,050
is that a separate entity altogether?

1916
03:07:49,650 --> 03:07:55,810
The Strat Peterson is not employ any truck drivers of its own.

1917
03:07:56,010 --> 03:08:00,930
All truck driving is contracted out either by us or by our customers.

1918
03:08:03,930 --> 03:08:12,370
And because some of the truck traffic is one of our major issues with GCC,

1919
03:08:13,270 --> 03:08:21,070
describe the nature of your contract and the ability for you to be able to enforce the provisions

1920
03:08:21,070 --> 03:08:25,110
of this permit with here subcontractor.

1921
03:08:26,500 --> 03:08:33,000
Rable to enforce the provisions of this permit by establishing local policy policies that

1922
03:08:33,000 --> 03:08:38,780
govern the operation of trucks on our property or on the highways similar to similar

1923
03:08:38,780 --> 03:08:41,580
to the way we would enforce policy on our own employees.

1924
03:08:41,580 --> 03:08:42,460
And

1925
03:08:45,440 --> 03:09:07,280
I would add to that that you can see that already occurring because many of the existing mitigation measures involve the operation of the trucks such as reduced speed limits and you know the 1-800 number and so on and all of those have been policies adopted by GCC with which the truck companies are required to comply and they have done so.

1926
03:09:07,280 --> 03:09:09,280
Okay. Thank you.

1927
03:09:10,640 --> 03:09:18,640
In my event that there is an accident on county road 120 north and the road is closed for

1928
03:09:18,640 --> 03:09:24,540
an accident or some other purpose. Even construction, you stated that you hoped to

1929
03:09:24,540 --> 03:09:34,540
begin phase one as early as is the first of June. Would you re route traffic in that event

1930
03:09:34,540 --> 03:09:41,480
or would you cease, truck, hauling, and tell the road was reopened, and would you have to

1931
03:09:41,480 --> 03:09:43,320
seek an exception to the permit?

1932
03:09:47,750 --> 03:09:52,350
Yeah, there is currently a condition of approval that says that any routing of truck

1933
03:09:52,350 --> 03:09:56,930
traffic on anything other than county or road going to any north would require the approval

1934
03:09:56,930 --> 03:09:59,610
of county public works.

1935
03:10:00,310 --> 03:10:02,890
And, actually, I'm going to happen.

1936
03:10:06,090 --> 03:10:10,630
I think also a related partial answer to your question is you're really referencing the

1937
03:10:10,630 --> 03:10:17,370
emergency response plan that was an additional condition of approval in between planning commission

1938
03:10:17,370 --> 03:10:22,370
and border county commissioners and there is a draft emergency response plan. I was just

1939
03:10:22,370 --> 03:10:26,550
trying to look it up to see where in your packet it is and I can tie that in a minute. A draft

1940
03:10:26,550 --> 03:10:32,550
plan has been prepared by GCC and with the recommendations of the various agencies incorporated

1941
03:10:32,550 --> 03:10:37,090
into that and as I understand it there's now discussion of a further condition of approval

1942
03:10:37,090 --> 03:10:41,390
that further meetings be held involving members of the public who have additional questions

1943
03:10:41,390 --> 03:10:46,490
and concerns about that, but the response plan would dictate whether alternative routing

1944
03:10:46,490 --> 03:10:51,090
is to be requested from the county, but Mr. Peterson's right that the county would still

1945
03:10:51,090 --> 03:10:52,830
have to approve any alternative routing.

1946
03:10:54,430 --> 03:10:55,330
Thank you.

1947
03:10:58,260 --> 03:11:03,840
Does GCC operate any other coal-mine operation similar to the one in Hesperis?

1948
03:11:08,280 --> 03:11:34,780
Okay, given that I'm not sure you're prepared to answer this next question, but are you aware of any other counties in Colorado, for example, that do have coal mine operations similar to yours, and are you aware of any other, you know, what are those counties charging per ton for hauling et cetera?

1949
03:11:34,780 --> 03:11:39,640
Are there best practices you've been able to borrow from other counties?

1950
03:11:43,450 --> 03:11:45,330
I can't speak to that level of detail.

1951
03:11:46,630 --> 03:11:50,230
I do know that in the North Fork Valley around Paleon,

1952
03:11:50,230 --> 03:11:57,130
there's been significant conversation between the coal operations and local jurisdictions about mine impacts.

1953
03:11:57,130 --> 03:12:01,950
I don't know what extent there are impact fees levied.

1954
03:12:03,450 --> 03:12:13,170
Okay, I do believe our county did have discussions with perhaps Rout County about it's operations with Peabody

1955
03:12:14,290 --> 03:12:15,010
Okay

1956
03:12:15,010 --> 03:12:16,830
It's correct Daniel Murphy

1957
03:12:16,830 --> 03:12:21,210
Plain department. We did have a conference called Rout County and the Peabody mine

1958
03:12:22,190 --> 03:12:25,810
Can you tell me what they charge per ton for

1959
03:12:27,570 --> 03:12:29,610
Impacts to the roads I

1960
03:12:34,640 --> 03:12:36,360
remember off the top of my head and in fact

1961
03:12:36,360 --> 03:12:43,860
they had their whole program entirely differently structured example they issue a permit for the

1962
03:12:43,860 --> 03:12:48,760
mind they issue a permit for the road so they approach it in a different way and they also

1963
03:12:48,760 --> 03:12:56,320
have rail transport so that it's not necessarily a identical comparison because we don't

1964
03:12:56,320 --> 03:13:04,990
have that option okay do we have an amount per ton, does any staff remember what they charge

1965
03:13:04,990 --> 03:13:05,810
for time?

1966
03:13:06,330 --> 03:13:13,050
Well, in the else correct, we had those discussions some time ago, without counting, but I

1967
03:13:13,050 --> 03:13:16,970
don't recall either, and I'm looking around table to see if anybody recalls the rate

1968
03:13:16,970 --> 03:13:19,590
that they mentioned to us.

1969
03:13:23,090 --> 03:13:24,210
Do you need the trust team?

1970
03:13:24,390 --> 03:13:25,030
I don't.

1971
03:13:25,090 --> 03:13:26,370
Commissioner, I can't do it.

1972
03:13:26,530 --> 03:13:28,410
You need staff to pursue that information.

1973
03:13:28,650 --> 03:13:29,930
We can certainly do that.

1974
03:13:32,080 --> 03:13:32,180
Okay.

1975
03:13:32,220 --> 03:13:37,880
I think it would be helpful to have a comparison just until we understand if we're in the ballpark

1976
03:13:37,880 --> 03:13:40,460
with similar county, similar operations

1977
03:13:40,460 --> 03:13:43,320
if we're charging too much, too little.

1978
03:13:44,200 --> 03:13:45,840
Just come Paris and.

1979
03:13:45,960 --> 03:13:48,040
Mr. Chair, if I may just to go back to your power question,

1980
03:13:48,240 --> 03:13:50,100
we've identified the emergency response plan

1981
03:13:50,100 --> 03:13:53,420
as being item 50, 50 in your packet.

1982
03:13:53,600 --> 03:13:54,200
Thank you.

1983
03:13:59,130 --> 03:14:01,310
Okay, Mr. Chair, I think that concludes majority

1984
03:14:01,310 --> 03:14:02,610
of my questions for the moment.

1985
03:14:04,110 --> 03:14:04,970
Thank you.

1986
03:14:04,970 --> 03:14:07,470
I am back to my monitoring wells question

1987
03:14:08,510 --> 03:14:12,470
and would like to just ask a couple of questions.

1988
03:14:12,490 --> 03:14:13,490
on that.

1989
03:14:16,400 --> 03:14:21,260
If you could identify yourself and your address, please.

1990
03:14:21,700 --> 03:14:26,380
Mr. Landon Beck, resource hydrogeologic services field, about 2-8-36 during

1991
03:14:26,380 --> 03:14:33,400
the Colorado 8-1-301. Can you spell your first name, L-A-N-D-O-N?

1992
03:14:36,070 --> 03:14:38,150
Thank you. Can you

1993
03:14:38,150 --> 03:14:43,990
speak to the nature and the number of monitoring wells in the location, generally, you

1994
03:14:43,990 --> 03:14:47,010
don't have to pinpoint them, but maybe generally.

1995
03:14:47,830 --> 03:14:51,090
Are we talking about the proposed wells that we're proposed wells?

1996
03:14:51,090 --> 03:14:53,590
Yes, water monitoring well, right?

1997
03:14:54,430 --> 03:14:58,950
OK, so currently proposed are for what we call clusters.

1998
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:15,900
As their monitor wells close together. Four clusters of three wells each and each of those wells will be completed in a discrete interval to monitor both water levels and water quality if water is even present.

1999
03:15:16,960 --> 03:15:28,320
The locations of those, which were, you know, subject to TR-26 on going technical revision with the state of the RMS.

2000
03:15:28,920 --> 03:15:34,540
What we've done is we've placed one cluster to the north of the mind, which is considered upgradient.

2001
03:15:34,940 --> 03:15:37,500
That will provide baseline data.

2002
03:15:38,200 --> 03:15:44,640
In other words, data that will be collected in order to show background.

2003
03:15:46,260 --> 03:15:51,840
natural conditions can't possibly be affected by any mining, by GCC.

2004
03:15:52,880 --> 03:15:56,540
And then what we do is we look at downgrading locations.

2005
03:15:57,420 --> 03:16:03,240
So in this case, there's two locations, cluster locations that are to the south of the

2006
03:16:03,240 --> 03:16:04,000
project area.

2007
03:16:04,820 --> 03:16:11,600
And then in addition to that, we have another location that is what we would call crossgrading.

2008
03:16:11,600 --> 03:16:20,180
And that's just mostly due to the location of that del Vista del Oro subdivision, immediately

2009
03:16:20,180 --> 03:16:23,200
to the west southwest of the King II mine.

2010
03:16:29,360 --> 03:16:34,100
Are there any other monitoring plans for existing wells in the area?

2011
03:16:36,040 --> 03:16:43,400
So currently, GCC monitors three existing groundwater wells, and those are in the hate

2012
03:16:43,400 --> 03:16:50,820
area. And those are all completed in the Hague ultraluvium, so just un-consolidated

2013
03:16:50,820 --> 03:16:57,460
sediments. And the location, well, I should say, those are considered compliance wells

2014
03:16:57,460 --> 03:17:07,600
by DRMS. And those wells are sampled for water quality and also water level, depth

2015
03:17:07,600 --> 03:17:09,820
water measurements quarterly.

2016
03:17:11,840 --> 03:17:16,980
And those records go back a substantial period of time. So, for

2017
03:17:16,980 --> 03:17:23,660
example, with the king one mind, those records go back to 1982, and then the other two wells

2018
03:17:23,660 --> 03:17:29,300
were brought online more for the king two operations ahead of the king two operations.

2019
03:17:31,840 --> 03:17:32,480
Those,

2020
03:17:32,480 --> 03:17:38,580
Because those wells, like I say, are monitored quarterly, were actually in a phase now where

2021
03:17:38,580 --> 03:17:41,300
we're monitoring the actual field parameters.

2022
03:17:42,600 --> 03:17:50,260
So that is to say, parameters such as pH temperature, conductivity, et cetera, on a monthly

2023
03:17:50,260 --> 03:17:57,900
basis, and then the laboratory sample collection is still on a quarterly basis.

2024
03:17:57,900 --> 03:18:02,240
Thank you. And generally, what depth are those wells?

2025
03:18:02,860 --> 03:18:09,840
Existing wells are because there's our shallow, alluvial wells, we're on the order of 20 to 30 feet.

2026
03:18:10,100 --> 03:18:12,460
One of them is 65 feet, actually.

2027
03:18:12,960 --> 03:18:16,440
But yes, so those are more on the shallow side.

2028
03:18:16,540 --> 03:18:21,400
We consider the proposed monitor well clusters.

2029
03:18:21,700 --> 03:18:23,540
Now those are bedrock wells, okay?

2030
03:18:23,540 --> 03:18:26,560
So those are going to be on the order of say 300 feet.

2031
03:18:32,770 --> 03:18:37,570
Mr. Chairman, Carolyn Whiteigan, for the record, if I may, I would just note that your

2032
03:18:37,570 --> 03:18:43,610
condition 17 proposed by staff is the one which requires that the data from these monitoring

2033
03:18:43,610 --> 03:18:47,970
wells be posted on a website and made public on a going forward basis.

2034
03:18:48,750 --> 03:18:49,630
Thank you.

2035
03:18:49,710 --> 03:18:52,110
Thank you for your time.

2036
03:18:53,470 --> 03:18:54,590
Any further questions?

2037
03:18:56,510 --> 03:18:57,770
commissioners council.

2038
03:19:00,440 --> 03:19:08,220
With that I guess we will adjourn for lunch and come back after lunch.

2039
03:19:08,700 --> 03:19:15,120
We need one hour one hour and at that time we'll hear from

2040
03:19:17,580 --> 03:19:18,820
the mayor's council.

2041
03:19:21,870 --> 03:19:27,670
All right we'll adjourn until 120. Thank you.

2042
03:19:27,670 --> 03:19:28,910
Let's go.

2043
04:21:57,620 --> 04:22:07,740
Testing. Thank you. We are going to call our meeting to order. Thank you for coming. And we would like to

2044
04:22:07,740 --> 04:22:15,600
mention that because we are running late, public comment was due to start at one, we will be

2045
04:22:15,600 --> 04:22:22,960
hearing from the neighbors and legal counsel for the neighbors. If you would like to make public comment

2046
04:22:22,960 --> 04:22:24,800
and you're on a very short timeline,

2047
04:22:25,480 --> 04:22:28,440
we would welcome you to come and give public comment

2048
04:22:28,440 --> 04:22:31,980
at this time, but we realize that it would be good

2049
04:22:31,980 --> 04:22:34,900
to hear from the neighbors in their presentation.

2050
04:22:35,920 --> 04:22:38,580
Is there any one that needs to make public comment?

2051
04:22:40,820 --> 04:22:42,300
No, you'll need to come up, Brian.

2052
04:22:42,500 --> 04:22:43,840
Have you filled out a,

2053
04:23:00,000 --> 04:23:01,400
right up here at the podium?

2054
04:23:01,500 --> 04:23:03,780
And have you filled out one of these pink slips?

2055
04:23:04,080 --> 04:23:05,260
And what was your name, sir?

2056
04:23:05,260 --> 04:23:05,940
On Wilson.

2057
04:23:06,480 --> 04:23:08,840
Can you speak right into that mic and give your name

2058
04:23:08,840 --> 04:23:10,420
your address for the record.

2059
04:23:11,040 --> 04:23:16,920
John Wilson, 898, Tucker Lane, Bayfield, Colorado, 8122.

2060
04:23:17,440 --> 04:23:17,800
Thank you.

2061
04:23:17,880 --> 04:23:18,380
You're welcome.

2062
04:23:21,220 --> 04:23:21,640
Go ahead.

2063
04:23:21,880 --> 04:23:22,160
You ready?

2064
04:23:22,360 --> 04:23:22,760
You're ready.

2065
04:23:23,040 --> 04:23:23,380
Okay.

2066
04:23:23,820 --> 04:23:26,860
I'm a retired officer at the United States Air Force.

2067
04:23:27,400 --> 04:23:28,900
28 years.

2068
04:23:30,240 --> 04:23:30,580
Service.

2069
04:23:32,690 --> 04:23:33,430
I swore.

2070
04:23:34,510 --> 04:23:34,870
To.

2071
04:23:35,730 --> 04:23:36,090
Protect.

2072
04:23:36,770 --> 04:23:37,490
By oath.

2073
04:23:38,490 --> 04:23:39,190
This country.

2074
04:23:40,190 --> 04:23:45,330
From all aggressors, foreign and domestic.

2075
04:23:46,390 --> 04:23:48,370
And that's what I feel like I'm doing today.

2076
04:23:49,750 --> 04:23:55,230
Somebody wanted to close down a perfectly good company

2077
04:23:55,230 --> 04:24:00,170
that supports people up to 300 as I understand it.

2078
04:24:00,430 --> 04:24:04,490
Working 550 for the mind in 150 and supporting jobs.

2079
04:24:06,050 --> 04:24:16,110
Those people have families and to support the political agenda of the federal government.

2080
04:24:16,810 --> 04:24:19,170
I find to be a crime in this case.

2081
04:24:19,470 --> 04:24:23,150
That mine has got some of the best cold that there is.

2082
04:24:25,210 --> 04:24:30,470
They have not been tagged for any pollution problems that I know of, but the federal government

2083
04:24:30,470 --> 04:24:31,190
has.

2084
04:24:31,190 --> 04:24:33,230
I mean, they dropped all the stuff in the river.

2085
04:24:33,230 --> 04:24:37,370
So, they're far better off than this company is.

2086
04:24:38,070 --> 04:24:42,610
These people, like you said behind me, I don't know one of them, other than I introduce myself

2087
04:24:42,610 --> 04:24:43,670
to two back there.

2088
04:24:44,250 --> 04:24:52,430
So my agenda is to support these people and their jobs, and I strongly, strongly recommend

2089
04:24:52,430 --> 04:24:58,910
that you people who are here to support the people of this county do so.

2090
04:24:59,290 --> 04:25:00,250
Thank you.

2091
04:25:00,670 --> 04:25:01,870
Thank you, Mr. Wilson.

2092
04:25:01,870 --> 04:25:03,070
Is

2093
04:25:08,640 --> 04:25:11,900
there anyone else that needs to make

2094
04:25:22,420 --> 04:25:24,620
the niece, Denise Baca?

2095
04:25:29,300 --> 04:25:30,540
She must have had to leave.

2096
04:25:42,340 --> 04:25:47,060
I will go ahead and briefly read Denise's comment on her pink slip.

2097
04:25:47,280 --> 04:25:52,880
It says, I will be presenting property value data along County Road 120 North, the effects

2098
04:25:52,880 --> 04:25:55,860
of trucking on residents, house values.

2099
04:25:56,860 --> 04:25:59,080
So I imagine she wanted to talk about that.

2100
04:26:01,100 --> 04:26:07,440
For those of you who weren't here earlier, we do have,

2101
04:26:12,270 --> 04:26:19,750
let's see, we do have some ground rules for speaking for the public during their public comment.

2102
04:26:20,430 --> 04:26:28,390
If you'd like to speak, please complete a pink sheet and provide it to Jan or to Jeannie up here.

2103
04:26:28,390 --> 04:26:37,030
And I will call off the names of three speakers at a time if your name is called, please move to the front of the room and speak at the podium.

2104
04:26:38,130 --> 04:26:46,390
We value and respect every opinion and ask that the audience to do the same by refraining from applause and outbursts.

2105
04:26:47,670 --> 04:26:51,450
Each public speaker will be given three minutes for their public comment.

2106
04:26:52,810 --> 04:26:53,910
Thank you.

2107
04:26:54,770 --> 04:27:05,890
All right, now we can go ahead and switch gears again to hear the presentation by neighbors

2108
04:27:05,890 --> 04:27:08,410
with legal counsel and boards and initial questions.

2109
04:27:20,230 --> 04:27:21,410
Thank you very much.

2110
04:27:22,110 --> 04:27:24,950
Members of the Commission, Mr. Chair.

2111
04:27:25,710 --> 04:27:29,710
Thank you all for allowing us to make this presentation.

2112
04:27:29,710 --> 04:27:42,530
My name is Luke Danielson. I'm a lawyer in Gunnison, Colorado. I wanted to come down to the big city here to make this presentation. I represent the Cross Creek Range.

2113
04:27:44,690 --> 04:27:53,790
And let me just tell you a little bit about my client. They're a landowner on County Road 120 North. It's owned by the Fountains family.

2114
04:27:53,790 --> 04:28:09,670
The folks family have been active in this area since 1901, lived in the Fort Corners area much longer than that, but I've just wanted to say we are not here because we oppose mining.

2115
04:28:10,370 --> 04:28:19,630
We're not here for anything other than to try to help balance the interests of the neighbors with the interests of the mining company.

2116
04:28:19,630 --> 04:28:29,010
Okay, I don't want ever, I spent my whole career trying to get us beyond the thing, I like the mine, I don't like the mine.

2117
04:28:29,270 --> 04:28:34,590
You know, things are much more complicated and nuanced than that, and I hope that's where we're going to go.

2118
04:28:35,170 --> 04:28:36,590
I just wanted to,

2119
04:28:40,150 --> 04:28:44,870
for some reason, then that these buttons seem to advance me.

2120
04:28:45,590 --> 04:28:51,870
I guess I need to use this. Next, this is just my personal note. This is where I live when I was a little boy.

2121
04:28:51,870 --> 04:28:57,910
my parents taught it for Lewis while I was still out at the fort before the Durango campus.

2122
04:28:59,870 --> 04:29:04,730
And I wanted to get to do a little history. This is where we were not so long ago.

2123
04:29:05,130 --> 04:29:07,750
I'm sure some of you remember Violet Smith.

2124
04:29:08,370 --> 04:29:11,930
I do because I was a member of our statewide land reclamation board.

2125
04:29:12,350 --> 04:29:17,870
And I remember what our inspectors used to say when we told them they had to go out and inspect this mine.

2126
04:29:18,550 --> 04:29:20,210
They were always happy about it.

2127
04:29:21,430 --> 04:29:25,630
But, you know, basically, we had a mom-and-pop operation.

2128
04:29:26,150 --> 04:29:27,370
That's really what it was.

2129
04:29:28,030 --> 04:29:30,010
In 2001, the Bureau of Labor Management

2130
04:29:30,010 --> 04:29:31,670
didn't environmental assessment.

2131
04:29:33,270 --> 04:29:36,470
And they found that at that time,

2132
04:29:36,570 --> 04:29:40,490
it was an estimated 18 to 28 cul-trucks at that.

2133
04:29:40,950 --> 04:29:45,010
That's what was going on out there at that time, right?

2134
04:29:46,430 --> 04:29:54,270
And they anticipated that that would continue to be the production rate 300,000 tons a year.

2135
04:29:54,750 --> 04:29:54,990
Okay?

2136
04:29:55,390 --> 04:29:59,850
We now have the company having successfully made an application to the state.

2137
04:30:00,000 --> 04:30:08,900
The raise their production rate to 1,300,000 times. So from this time to date, we've had a quadrupling of the production.

2138
04:30:09,980 --> 04:30:17,560
It is no longer a mom and pop operation, and if we ever wanted to treat it like one, it's not time to do it anymore.

2139
04:30:17,560 --> 04:30:24,200
impacts are, we have grown dramatically, and it's operated by a major multinational company.

2140
04:30:25,120 --> 04:30:31,080
Okay, group of the cementers that you are, is a very successful cement manufacturer,

2141
04:30:31,300 --> 04:30:39,240
a $14 billion company. It just bought this month a bunch of major assets,

2142
04:30:39,380 --> 04:30:46,760
mostly in the front range for $400 million. Okay, so this is not a company without assets

2143
04:30:49,360 --> 04:30:55,720
this operation has been in non-compliance with the land use code for years.

2144
04:30:56,620 --> 04:31:03,200
Okay, here is the August 5, 2010 letter from the county attorney that we've talked about before.

2145
04:31:03,620 --> 04:31:13,800
This is a violation of the Laplaza County land use code directing the company to get in compliance in August of 2010.

2146
04:31:13,800 --> 04:31:22,400
Okay, here we are almost six years later, and we're going to see what's been, here is

2147
04:31:22,400 --> 04:31:28,300
prior to the county's letter, if you'll see, these are production figures, incidentally,

2148
04:31:29,480 --> 04:31:40,980
if you're interested in these production figures, look at our Karl Mount's exhibit 35 or

2149
04:31:40,980 --> 04:31:48,800
35, which has all the data about past production and that he compiled, but you see that at

2150
04:31:48,800 --> 04:31:54,520
no point did we ever get to 500,000 times a year prior to the county letter. Here's what

2151
04:31:54,520 --> 04:32:03,020
happened after. Okay, here's the county letter. Suddenly we're up to 600, 800, 900, and an

2152
04:32:03,020 --> 04:32:10,540
application to go to 1.3 million. Okay, so this is after being told that they're not in compliance

2153
04:32:10,540 --> 04:32:17,440
with the county land use code, we see this dramatic ramping up a production during which period

2154
04:32:17,440 --> 04:32:25,080
we never actually quite get a permit, right? Here are the, here's how that production

2155
04:32:25,080 --> 04:32:30,780
translates to co truck trips. As you see, there's a little bit of hatching there that

2156
04:32:30,780 --> 04:32:38,340
represents these differences that Mr. Olson talked about earlier between seven day operation,

2157
04:32:38,340 --> 04:32:46,520
in six-day operation or five-day operation but what we're seeing here is by our calculation

2158
04:32:46,520 --> 04:32:54,360
and all of our numbers are there in the record in Mr. Mount's report. 46 Coltrux per

2159
04:32:54,360 --> 04:33:02,640
day that's actually double that number, 92 if you count the coming and the going. But what

2160
04:33:02,640 --> 04:33:12,980
What we see is growing coltruck traffic on that road up to where we could have reached

2161
04:33:12,980 --> 04:33:18,100
171 trucks, 342 trucks total a day.

2162
04:33:20,480 --> 04:33:30,360
That's just part of the story, though, because what I'm trying to convey is that at approximately

2163
04:33:30,360 --> 04:33:38,220
that same time. GCC for reasons that have never really been made completely clear to us adopted

2164
04:33:38,220 --> 04:33:44,180
an internal policy. Prior to that time, the truck drivers had apparently been allowed to

2165
04:33:44,180 --> 04:33:49,520
select their own routes. Some of them went on one-nineteen, some of them went on one-nineteen,

2166
04:33:49,520 --> 04:33:54,260
some of them went on one-nineteen, some of them went on one-nineteen, but starting in 2011, all of them,

2167
04:33:54,260 --> 04:34:01,600
percent of them were directed by the company on to 14 North. Okay, so it isn't just the total

2168
04:34:01,600 --> 04:34:09,340
number of trucks ramping up, but now they're all concentrated on one road segment. Okay, so that's

2169
04:34:09,340 --> 04:34:16,300
why we start seeing some of the concerns. This is not Violet Smith and her 18 trucks a day.

2170
04:34:16,300 --> 04:34:26,220
Okay? What is this meant? This is from Mr. Olsen's report. And this is, what is this meant for truck traffic?

2171
04:34:26,400 --> 04:34:36,140
Well, we've gone from the 2001 level to a proposed level of 312 trips.

2172
04:34:37,140 --> 04:34:43,020
And if you add the other trucks, the water trucks, the supply trucks, the equipment trucks,

2173
04:34:43,020 --> 04:34:46,460
bringing stuff up to the mind, and all the employee vehicles

2174
04:34:46,460 --> 04:34:50,960
were talking about 660 trips a day.

2175
04:34:51,360 --> 04:34:55,380
OK, 312 per day of these large heavy trucks.

2176
04:34:56,400 --> 04:34:58,720
We're going to talk about these five subjects.

2177
04:34:59,880 --> 04:35:04,320
OK, and let me start into road safety.

2178
04:35:04,760 --> 04:35:06,000
Just say this.

2179
04:35:06,540 --> 04:35:09,100
There's all kind of talk about, oh, well,

2180
04:35:09,100 --> 04:35:11,160
they're all these different layers of regulation.

2181
04:35:11,160 --> 04:35:16,640
This is an area where the county is clearly in the driver's seat, okay?

2182
04:35:17,120 --> 04:35:22,980
The county has the responsibility for regulating activity on county roads.

2183
04:35:23,480 --> 04:35:27,980
It's not the Bureau of Land Management or some agency in Washington, D.C.

2184
04:35:27,980 --> 04:35:30,040
This is the county's job, okay?

2185
04:35:32,420 --> 04:35:40,520
And the code requires an analysis of safety as part of the application process.

2186
04:35:40,520 --> 04:35:47,160
And we believe that the current levels of truck traffic on the current roadway just simply aren't safe.

2187
04:35:48,000 --> 04:35:50,820
The public is exposed unreasonable dangers.

2188
04:35:52,340 --> 04:35:57,800
LSC transportation consultants is a highly regarded traffic engineering firm.

2189
04:35:58,720 --> 04:36:05,520
It came out that traffic counts measured the curves, measured the width, did all kinds of analysis of the roadway.

2190
04:36:06,640 --> 04:36:08,660
And this is their conclusion.

2191
04:36:09,360 --> 04:36:18,180
at a level of 80-loaded cult trucks a day that we are not adequately ensuring a reasonable degree of public safety on the road.

2192
04:36:19,000 --> 04:36:27,520
I've brought Jeff Hodgson, a traffic engineer with LSC here with me, and Jeff is going to explain his conclusions.

2193
04:36:30,000 --> 04:36:31,260
Thank you, Mr. Danielson.

2194
04:36:31,260 --> 04:36:38,680
Again, not Jeff Hodgston with LSC Transportation Consultants, 545 East Pikes Peak, Sweet

2195
04:36:38,680 --> 04:36:41,840
210 Colorado Springs, 80903.

2196
04:36:43,460 --> 04:36:49,880
We're a Colorado-based traffic engineering and transportation planning sort of specialty

2197
04:36:49,880 --> 04:36:50,360
firm.

2198
04:36:50,700 --> 04:36:55,760
We have offices in Denver and Colorado Springs and Tahoe City, California.

2199
04:36:56,680 --> 04:37:04,600
Speaking for myself, I have 23 years of experience in these fields, conducting traffic impact

2200
04:37:04,600 --> 04:37:11,440
assessment reports, traffic operations analysis, roadway geometry analysis.

2201
04:37:12,680 --> 04:37:18,180
In addition to the reports we've submitted, I've read the reports and the staff recommendations.

2202
04:37:18,980 --> 04:37:25,500
I've directed and supervised our personnel in the field taking measurements and doing traffic

2203
04:37:25,500 --> 04:37:32,180
counts and I've examined the route in detail myself on a couple of visits.

2204
04:37:34,110 --> 04:37:34,790
Okay,

2205
04:37:39,030 --> 04:37:39,730
there we go.

2206
04:37:40,810 --> 04:37:43,950
I look at the screen instead of my paper, it would be better off anyway.

2207
04:37:45,510 --> 04:37:52,570
So when we prepared our reports in our evaluation, we considered the factors that are shown

2208
04:37:52,570 --> 04:37:55,450
on the slide, specifically calling attention

2209
04:37:55,450 --> 04:37:59,710
to horizontal alignment and roadway width,

2210
04:37:59,810 --> 04:38:02,290
the lane width, as well as sight distance.

2211
04:38:03,410 --> 04:38:05,990
And the traffic volumes on the roadway

2212
04:38:05,990 --> 04:38:07,910
and the mix of vehicles.

2213
04:38:08,630 --> 04:38:10,830
And it's important to note about the mix of vehicles.

2214
04:38:11,450 --> 04:38:13,030
You know, when you talk about a local roadway

2215
04:38:13,030 --> 04:38:16,190
and criteria, often you refer to a local roadway

2216
04:38:16,190 --> 04:38:19,990
with a typical mix of resident, mostly residential traffic

2217
04:38:19,990 --> 04:38:22,150
and perhaps some other uses as well.

2218
04:38:22,150 --> 04:38:27,490
Well, this road is highly dominated by large commercial truck traffic.

2219
04:38:28,470 --> 04:38:33,750
It's a dominant mix of the vehicle mix on that roadway.

2220
04:38:33,910 --> 04:38:36,250
So that's a certain we have very important consideration,

2221
04:38:37,130 --> 04:38:40,630
just this sheer size and the number of the traffic in the percentage.

2222
04:38:42,010 --> 04:38:45,570
We looked at, and we, of course, looked at the crash history as well.

2223
04:38:45,570 --> 04:38:56,910
So, based on these factors, we evaluated it along with field observations and looking at

2224
04:38:56,910 --> 04:39:02,650
county criteria first and foremost, but also looking at drawing on other criteria for

2225
04:39:02,650 --> 04:39:11,450
some additional detail, such as Ashdo, which is the roadway design handbook, geometric design,

2226
04:39:11,990 --> 04:39:18,470
Institute of Transportation Engineers, Resources, and other jurisdictions, other county criteria

2227
04:39:18,470 --> 04:39:20,290
for roadways in Colorado.

2228
04:39:22,410 --> 04:39:29,130
And what we found is that when we did the analysis, we found a lot of, as has been mentioned

2229
04:39:29,130 --> 04:39:30,690
before, the roadway is deficient.

2230
04:39:31,250 --> 04:39:37,930
So we found a lot of deficiencies up and down county road 120 North, and a lot of those deficiencies

2231
04:39:37,930 --> 04:39:45,790
kind of their combined deficiencies, such as a narrow width with a substandard curve and poor

2232
04:39:45,790 --> 04:39:46,450
sight distance.

2233
04:39:47,270 --> 04:39:54,110
And those factors kind of exacerbate any one of the deficiencies alone.

2234
04:39:55,970 --> 04:40:03,230
So, our conclusion has been that the roadways not adequate to run 80 load a call trucks

2235
04:40:03,230 --> 04:40:09,970
day and still have or ensure a reasonable degree of public safety and efficiency for the

2236
04:40:09,970 --> 04:40:15,970
traveling public in its current condition or in a partially or phased condition.

2237
04:40:19,670 --> 04:40:27,090
So basically our judgment is until all the road improvements have been completed, the 55 trucks

2238
04:40:27,090 --> 04:40:33,470
a day would be a reasonable upper limit of the trucks of the cold transport trucks.

2239
04:40:33,470 --> 04:40:42,330
And I made this recommendation a little bit of reservation given the deficiency we're seeing out there.

2240
04:40:43,050 --> 04:40:50,910
However, it's a reasonable compromise towards that end to keep things operating.

2241
04:40:52,570 --> 04:41:00,790
The 55 was basically, it's an adjusted number from the 7-day traffic to the 6-day.

2242
04:41:00,790 --> 04:41:06,890
That represents the historical level at the time the county letter was sent to GCC.

2243
04:41:08,010 --> 04:41:09,630
That 2010 letter at that point.

2244
04:41:10,090 --> 04:41:13,270
That was like 46 or something like that.

2245
04:41:13,350 --> 04:41:17,090
We adjusted it up to 55 to account for the six-day traffic.

2246
04:41:18,690 --> 04:41:25,570
Also, that number is consistent with the Haygulch citizens advisory panel recommendation.

2247
04:41:25,570 --> 04:41:29,470
So, you know, the main basis for the 55.

2248
04:41:31,630 --> 04:41:34,070
So, when all road improvements are completed,

2249
04:41:35,530 --> 04:41:39,970
the increase truck loading on 120 North could be accommodated.

2250
04:41:41,130 --> 04:41:43,830
And traffic also needs to be limited during construction,

2251
04:41:43,950 --> 04:41:46,870
and it's 55 will help with that as well.

2252
04:41:50,220 --> 04:41:55,740
So, when we talk about limiting 55 trucks a day,

2253
04:41:55,740 --> 04:42:02,340
loaded trucks on 12 North, we still look at, there's still the option at 12 South and

2254
04:42:02,340 --> 04:42:09,000
119, and I'm talking about, not 12 South all the way to Highway 140, I'm talking about

2255
04:42:09,000 --> 04:42:17,680
12 South, 116 to 119, what I'm referring to. So none of the roads in this area are ideal

2256
04:42:17,680 --> 04:42:20,360
to carry this volume and type of traffic.

2257
04:42:22,800 --> 04:42:25,300
I mean, that's pretty well known. I've observed

2258
04:42:25,300 --> 04:42:28,040
and completed some analysis of that Southern route.

2259
04:42:29,280 --> 04:42:31,440
And from what I can see, there

2260
04:42:31,440 --> 04:42:35,140
doesn't appear to be any engineering basis for saying

2261
04:42:35,140 --> 04:42:37,040
that trucks cannot use that route.

2262
04:42:37,880 --> 04:42:40,500
And what I mean by that is, there's been

2263
04:42:40,500 --> 04:42:44,220
discussions of crashes and incidents and that sort of thing.

2264
04:42:45,060 --> 04:42:47,920
And again, the route is not ideal.

2265
04:42:48,580 --> 04:42:51,620
However, I didn't see any evidence that would suggest

2266
04:42:51,620 --> 04:42:53,380
this route should be just tossed.

2267
04:42:53,380 --> 04:43:04,480
I think it's worthy of looking at maybe doing some improvements because some improvements would likely be needed some not significant improvements, but I think some minor improvements would be needed.

2268
04:43:06,460 --> 04:43:20,060
And perhaps some of the techniques that have been used on 120 with some of the slowing, the change of the speed limits could be applied on 120 whereas before maybe it even tries some of those approaches when they failed before.

2269
04:43:22,500 --> 04:43:27,900
So bottom line is one way truck traffic, you know, where they arrive one way and depart another.

2270
04:43:29,440 --> 04:43:37,400
Maybe the best solution to allow GCC to have more trucks yet still stay below that 55 trucks a day.

2271
04:43:37,880 --> 04:43:44,920
So they can expand and use the other route to get to allow more trucks by splitting the ends and the outs.

2272
04:43:47,740 --> 04:43:52,960
So, this is just a quick excerpt of what I was, I'm just going to briefly go over this.

2273
04:43:53,520 --> 04:43:57,460
This is what I talk about sort of a couple of the deficiencies that we see.

2274
04:43:58,180 --> 04:44:02,760
And this is, there's a couple of several locations along 120 north that you see this.

2275
04:44:03,040 --> 04:44:09,920
The roadway is narrow, in some cases, 20 to 22 feet, for the traveled way, for the vehicles.

2276
04:44:10,680 --> 04:44:13,820
And it's on a substandard tight horizontal curve.

2277
04:44:13,820 --> 04:44:20,980
But the way trucks operate, they need to swing wide, and they need extra width to be able

2278
04:44:20,980 --> 04:44:26,180
to make the corner without having the rear wheels go into the ditch, so they need to use

2279
04:44:26,180 --> 04:44:27,060
up more of the roadway.

2280
04:44:27,200 --> 04:44:32,860
So what you see here is that basically the opposite direction paths basically overlap, they

2281
04:44:32,860 --> 04:44:33,300
conflict.

2282
04:44:34,540 --> 04:44:39,280
So that's a problem and that's why the road needs to be upgraded to a current standard.

2283
04:44:39,280 --> 04:44:51,000
And part of my recommendation for the upgraded road is to, if there's places where they have curves that need to be still tight,

2284
04:44:51,820 --> 04:44:57,240
widen those way out according to Ashdale standards so that those truck paths don't conflict.

2285
04:44:58,500 --> 04:44:59,820
That's all I have for now.

2286
04:45:01,520 --> 04:45:05,140
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

2287
04:45:08,340 --> 04:45:08,340
So,

2288
04:45:10,380 --> 04:45:28,920
this is the staff report. Every one agrees that we're talking about a traffic volume that's beyond the capacity of the existing road that it's not up to minimum county standards, and it would only be compatible on completion of all required improvements.

2289
04:45:28,920 --> 04:45:37,420
Okay, you know, incidentally I would just say that's one thing I think we all agree on is if all these improvements are done

2290
04:45:37,420 --> 04:45:46,120
I've my clients don't have any problem with the 120 truck a day limit but we want the improvements to be done before we reach that limit.

2291
04:45:46,900 --> 04:45:56,920
Okay, how did we, how can the county get to this 80 trucks a day? Well you heard this thing of well someone told us someone whose name has never been divulged

2292
04:45:56,920 --> 04:46:01,880
told us in 2014 that things were okay in 2013.

2293
04:46:04,100 --> 04:46:07,140
You know, we submitted to the Planning Commission.

2294
04:46:08,620 --> 04:46:09,560
And they're in the file.

2295
04:46:10,020 --> 04:46:11,880
And I'd like them to be part of the record.

2296
04:46:11,960 --> 04:46:15,780
Letters from a majority, the residents on 120 North saying,

2297
04:46:16,540 --> 04:46:19,580
I never told anybody that it was okay in 2013.

2298
04:46:19,980 --> 04:46:23,740
I never heard anyone say that it was okay in 2013.

2299
04:46:23,740 --> 04:46:26,740
and I don't think it was okay in 2013.

2300
04:46:27,980 --> 04:46:34,560
We put in a open record record request to the county for any documents that would support

2301
04:46:34,560 --> 04:46:40,560
or contain that statement and last Friday we told we don't believe any such documents exist.

2302
04:46:41,880 --> 04:46:51,460
So the basis is somebody said supposedly in 2014 that everything was okay in 2013 who said

2303
04:46:51,460 --> 04:46:58,460
who knows. We haven't been able to find them and we've been looking. The county has no engineering

2304
04:46:58,460 --> 04:47:07,420
study that supports 80. Let me turn to air pollution before I go too far. I'm going to cut

2305
04:47:07,420 --> 04:47:17,420
the short in light of Commissioner West Endorf's questions. But basically, we know about the PM10 standard.

2306
04:47:18,560 --> 04:47:25,520
And what we know is let me just get right to this, the standard is 150, and the modeling

2307
04:47:25,520 --> 04:47:31,440
that's been done shows what, at the McQ residents, it's double the standard, at the

2308
04:47:31,440 --> 04:47:37,600
Hunsaker residents, it's triple the standard, and I would be delighted if the commission

2309
04:47:37,600 --> 04:47:43,860
wants to pursue this line of questioning why is our study different from the applicant study.

2310
04:47:43,860 --> 04:47:51,060
But we do all agree, I think, that long-term exposure, like living for six years in

2311
04:47:51,060 --> 04:47:59,180
a cloud of dust, while we creek our way through the permitting process, is in the

2312
04:47:59,180 --> 04:48:01,680
deleterious to health, okay?

2313
04:48:03,200 --> 04:48:04,260
It's interesting.

2314
04:48:04,420 --> 04:48:06,340
It is a function of traffic levels.

2315
04:48:06,340 --> 04:48:19,140
One of the studies that we've submitted to you, number 37, shows if you reduce this to 2010 traffic levels, you're within the standard.

2316
04:48:19,740 --> 04:48:22,460
Okay, it's a function of the traffic level.

2317
04:48:23,580 --> 04:48:28,760
So this study was done on a conservative basis.

2318
04:48:29,580 --> 04:48:36,400
The authors, one of the most respected firms in Colorado say that the underestimates impacts.

2319
04:48:36,400 --> 04:48:50,180
Okay. Solid waste. Here's what the county land use code requires. All developments are required to demonstrate adequate solid waste collection and solid waste disposal sites.

2320
04:48:52,700 --> 04:49:02,400
So, here's what the staff report says. Well, we take all the waste from King 2 and we move it over to King 1 and that's where it's disposed of.

2321
04:49:03,160 --> 04:49:12,820
But the staff also says the class two land use permit does not include this waste disposal site.

2322
04:49:13,780 --> 04:49:16,240
It's our waste, but we're not going to include it.

2323
04:49:16,580 --> 04:49:21,700
And the staff proposal is apparently that yes this does need a land use permit.

2324
04:49:22,460 --> 04:49:27,500
But at some point in the future, the company needs to come and apply for one.

2325
04:49:27,500 --> 04:49:38,700
maybe we can do another permitting process just like this one, so just what we want to do, but the staff position, apparently, is let's put all that off.

2326
04:49:38,900 --> 04:49:43,260
We will let the company just keep dumping theirs until this happens.

2327
04:49:44,440 --> 04:49:53,160
And while there is a condition, condition number two, the talks about this, there's no condition that says that this has to be done by any particular time.

2328
04:49:53,160 --> 04:49:55,040
there's no deadline for doing anything.

2329
04:49:55,360 --> 04:49:58,580
This is a picture of the waste disposal site.

2330
04:49:59,860 --> 04:50:00,940
Here's the condition.

2331
04:50:01,860 --> 04:50:05,780
Apparently the proposal is this after this hearing,

2332
04:50:06,660 --> 04:50:08,320
but before the permanent issues,

2333
04:50:09,300 --> 04:50:12,200
the company is going to write a report and come in

2334
04:50:12,200 --> 04:50:17,320
and give us the report, which after any opportunity

2335
04:50:17,320 --> 04:50:22,640
for public comment, that is going to deal

2336
04:50:22,640 --> 04:50:25,840
with the question of what's happening with the wastes.

2337
04:50:26,680 --> 04:50:30,580
OK, so here's the deal.

2338
04:50:32,160 --> 04:50:34,980
The county saying, well, let's rely on the state.

2339
04:50:35,920 --> 04:50:39,240
But four years after GCC was found in violation

2340
04:50:39,240 --> 04:50:42,440
by the state for disposing of things here,

2341
04:50:43,280 --> 04:50:46,260
there's still no resolution of this application.

2342
04:50:47,220 --> 04:50:58,120
Indeed, I can bring you news today was the deadline by which the state was supposed to receive everything needed and act on TR20.

2343
04:50:58,780 --> 04:51:05,140
Oh, guess what? Today the state acted to extend the deadline again, apparently at the request of GCC.

2344
04:51:05,140 --> 04:51:10,020
So we have no decision on what monitoring is going to be done.

2345
04:51:10,800 --> 04:51:13,480
No decision on which parameters will be modeled.

2346
04:51:14,140 --> 04:51:16,980
No decision on whether the activity meets standards

2347
04:51:16,980 --> 04:51:20,840
and no effective deadline for any decision.

2348
04:51:21,740 --> 04:51:24,000
And our point is, look at the bottom,

2349
04:51:24,280 --> 04:51:26,720
all developments are required to demonstrate

2350
04:51:26,720 --> 04:51:30,000
adequate solid waste collection and disposal.

2351
04:51:30,920 --> 04:51:32,840
Okay? That's our concern.

2352
04:51:33,720 --> 04:51:37,080
Water, ground and surface water.

2353
04:51:40,540 --> 04:51:45,940
This is what our expert Randy Fisher says. The potential

2354
04:51:45,940 --> 04:51:51,640
water quality impacts may result in possible human and should be taken into consideration

2355
04:51:51,640 --> 04:51:59,520
by Laplata County. The county's position is let the state take care of this. I don't

2356
04:51:59,520 --> 04:52:04,380
know how you comply with the county land use code based on the hope that at some future

2357
04:52:04,380 --> 04:52:13,440
date the state will do something. At this point, I'm now told that the state has received

2358
04:52:13,440 --> 04:52:19,040
some kind of advice from GCC, that some of these locations for these well clusters

2359
04:52:19,430 --> 04:52:24,660
are going to have to be changed because they're having trouble getting access to them.

2360
04:52:24,960 --> 04:52:31,840
And so they're going to have to reanalyze this and start all over again. So we're talking

2361
04:52:31,840 --> 04:52:35,320
about monitoring that can't even occur till the wells are installed.

2362
04:52:36,540 --> 04:52:41,140
We are continuously postponing this process.

2363
04:52:41,560 --> 04:52:47,400
How can the county find compatibility for water based on the possibility that the state

2364
04:52:47,400 --> 04:52:49,980
may at some future point take action?

2365
04:52:52,780 --> 04:52:56,060
GCC has not come into agreement with the state.

2366
04:52:57,020 --> 04:53:11,000
Noise. I'm just going to make these points. Mr. Dr. Braslow's report is 73. First of all, the

2367
04:53:11,000 --> 04:53:16,800
HUD Noise Guidelines used in the Wave Engineering Report are designed for like downtown Chicago,

2368
04:53:17,680 --> 04:53:24,100
or some kind of serious urban area. They're not appropriate for evaluation of rural noise.

2369
04:53:26,100 --> 04:53:35,040
And he says analyzing the data, there's a severe noise impact that these three monitoring sites,

2370
04:53:35,100 --> 04:53:42,020
which I think should be M1M2M3, and that if this were a federally funded project,

2371
04:53:42,420 --> 04:53:45,120
federal rules would require mitigation.

2372
04:53:45,940 --> 04:53:48,640
So this is my last slide.

2373
04:53:48,640 --> 04:53:54,780
And again, we're really what this is supposed to say if you look at the right-hand side

2374
04:53:54,780 --> 04:54:01,400
is 55, but it has, we haven't adjusted it to the appropriate number of days in the week.

2375
04:54:02,320 --> 04:54:07,800
But if you look at this, what you'll see is there are three reasons why this is appropriate.

2376
04:54:08,320 --> 04:54:15,040
Left-hand bar, that's the level we had in 2010 when the county sent the letter saying you're not in compliance.

2377
04:54:15,040 --> 04:54:25,920
That's the letter Mr. Hodson has recommended as being tolerable in the short-room term as a compromise while we wait.

2378
04:54:26,660 --> 04:54:30,100
It also gets us to air quality compliance.

2379
04:54:31,300 --> 04:54:38,120
And it's also recommendation number one of the hate gulch citizen advisory panel.

2380
04:54:38,560 --> 04:54:43,080
Recommendation number one was returned to the 2010 levels immediately.

2381
04:54:43,760 --> 04:54:46,780
So, that's my presentation.

2382
04:54:47,560 --> 04:54:54,280
I look forward to any questions, particularly about the air pollution, but let me turn this

2383
04:54:54,280 --> 04:54:55,220
over to my colleagues.

2384
04:55:21,630 --> 04:55:22,230
Good afternoon.

2385
04:55:22,590 --> 04:55:26,890
My name is Paula Mathias, and I have lived at 788 Cougar Way for 13 years.

2386
04:55:27,250 --> 04:55:32,030
Thank you for the opportunity to share a few of my personal stories of life along CR-12 North,

2387
04:55:32,410 --> 04:55:33,890
since King Colt II began operating.

2388
04:55:33,890 --> 04:55:41,290
As you witnessed on your May 18 site visit, traffic counts do not include delivery vehicles, water trucks or employees.

2389
04:55:42,110 --> 04:55:48,230
Therefore, daily traffic related to the mine has resulted in substantial increases over the existing traffic volumes.

2390
04:55:48,770 --> 04:55:54,170
It exceeds 600 additional vehicles utilizing our narrow rural county road.

2391
04:55:55,270 --> 04:56:00,170
I live on Cougar Mesa. It's a subdivision located directly above where the pavement ends.

2392
04:56:00,170 --> 04:56:06,410
Our location, coupled with the topography, along the top of the nearly 9% variance hill, means

2393
04:56:06,410 --> 04:56:11,570
that each loaded coal truck, climbing the hill, 24 hours per day, creates noise pollution.

2394
04:56:12,330 --> 04:56:15,870
Noise that is beyond the Colorado Noise Statue of 86 decibels.

2395
04:56:16,730 --> 04:56:18,830
Noise that interrupts our quality of sleep.

2396
04:56:19,590 --> 04:56:22,910
Noise that is occurring, even though this hill is paved.

2397
04:56:23,690 --> 04:56:28,010
Noise that has never been monitored at the loudest point identified by residents.

2398
04:56:28,010 --> 04:56:34,170
Our days have been joined a cup of coffee on the patio, admiring our rural solitude, or long gone.

2399
04:56:34,870 --> 04:56:40,210
During your visit, noise along variance hill was one of the highlights, but as you are aware,

2400
04:56:40,390 --> 04:56:44,790
we did not exit our vehicles to experience the noise created by a culturek.

2401
04:56:45,030 --> 04:56:50,250
This is unfortunate, as I know you would have agreed that the decibels reached would not have qualified

2402
04:56:50,250 --> 04:56:51,890
for Laplace County compatibility.

2403
04:56:52,690 --> 04:56:57,190
Another compatibility issue that was not visible during your site visit due to our lovely

2404
04:56:57,190 --> 04:57:03,230
rainy-muddy conditions was dust. We have endured dust for way too long. My asthma has

2405
04:57:03,230 --> 04:57:07,670
definitely worsened over the past three years as I now take two medications. Currently,

2406
04:57:08,030 --> 04:57:13,810
the amount of water added to the dirt section of CR120 to suppress dust creates track on onto the

2407
04:57:13,810 --> 04:57:19,250
pavement and the dust generated by the coal trucks easily stins beyond the height of their wheels

2408
04:57:19,250 --> 04:57:20,750
and permeates the canyon.

2409
04:57:22,210 --> 04:57:25,890
Our biggest concern living around the CIR-12 North is safety.

2410
04:57:26,610 --> 04:57:31,250
We have repeatedly heard there have been very few reported accidents on 12 North, if

2411
04:57:31,250 --> 04:57:31,550
any.

2412
04:57:32,250 --> 04:57:32,990
This is incorrect.

2413
04:57:33,770 --> 04:57:39,310
On Saturday, October 18, 2014, a cold truck driver suffered a fatal heart attack near

2414
04:57:39,310 --> 04:57:41,910
mile 1.4 in route to the mine.

2415
04:57:42,790 --> 04:57:47,770
During the winter, truck safety hazards on 12 North, particularly attempting to climb the

2416
04:57:47,770 --> 04:57:53,930
and so. While these incidents are not reported, they occur often and put residents' lives in danger.

2417
04:57:55,990 --> 04:58:01,790
Let me clarify that everyone seated here today behind me has lived on CR-12 North before

2418
04:58:01,790 --> 04:58:10,510
GCC purchased King Cole-1. We were residents before GCC introduced the semi-truck 288 daily.

2419
04:58:10,510 --> 04:58:17,210
Each of us does not represent a job. We represent a family, a subdivision, a neighbor.

2420
04:58:18,030 --> 04:58:25,250
While concessions have been reached with the county and other community members, our concerns largely have been ignored.

2421
04:58:26,450 --> 04:58:31,430
Had a man used permit been granted in 2010, the truck levels would have been livable and

2422
04:58:31,430 --> 04:58:32,870
compatible at 55.

2423
04:58:33,750 --> 04:58:37,410
Truck numbers beyond the 2010 levels were not tolerable.

2424
04:58:37,910 --> 04:58:43,010
We are asking you to retain the character of Hey Gulch to preserve the quality of our lives,

2425
04:58:43,370 --> 04:58:47,630
to ensure our safety and to enforce your compatibility standards.

2426
04:58:48,110 --> 04:58:53,650
Demonstrate to us, your county residents, that our lives do matter as much, if not more than

2427
04:58:53,650 --> 04:58:55,530
and international company's profits.

2428
04:58:55,970 --> 04:58:58,690
Grant G.C. at Class 2 permit with a truck limit

2429
04:58:58,690 --> 04:59:01,410
on CR-120 North of 55 trucks,

2430
04:59:01,670 --> 04:59:03,670
which equals 110 per day.

2431
04:59:04,350 --> 04:59:05,170
Thank you.

2432
04:59:10,180 --> 04:59:14,680
I'm Julie McEugh, I live at 2541 County Road 120.

2433
04:59:15,300 --> 04:59:18,940
My husband, Frank and I have lived here for over 32 years.

2434
04:59:18,980 --> 04:59:21,120
That's where we raise our three children.

2435
04:59:21,740 --> 04:59:24,720
To begin, I cannot help a shake my head and wonder

2436
04:59:24,720 --> 04:59:27,540
how a billion dollar multinational corporation

2437
04:59:27,540 --> 04:59:31,440
has managed to divide a beautiful, small rural community.

2438
04:59:32,040 --> 04:59:34,620
I want to thank you all for coming out to our area

2439
04:59:34,620 --> 04:59:38,240
to try to get a better sense of what we are living with.

2440
04:59:38,720 --> 04:59:40,860
Unfortunately, on the day of the site visit,

2441
04:59:41,400 --> 04:59:43,560
it rained all morning hence no dust.

2442
04:59:44,320 --> 04:59:47,920
Also, how ironic that for the 25 minutes you stood in our front yard,

2443
04:59:48,380 --> 04:59:51,140
a total of three trucks passed, two coal trucks,

2444
04:59:51,500 --> 04:59:53,040
and one speeding delivery truck.

2445
04:59:53,620 --> 04:59:56,640
That indeed was nowhere even remotely close

2446
04:59:56,640 --> 04:59:59,240
to a true representation of our daily life.

2447
04:59:59,600 --> 04:59:59,960
Dealing with that.

2448
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:29,980
High volume of cold trucks deliver trucks in mine employees. Since 2010, when GCC was notified that they needed a class to permit trucks rumbling past our house has tripled. This is just one aspect we struggle with. How can they continue to operate and run and outrageous number of trucks daily when they are in non-compliance to county codes. Also, I find it incredibly insulting to think that the experts hired by GCC have stated that the quality of air in

2449
05:00:29,980 --> 05:00:36,660
front of our home and our neighbors is within normal ranges. Over the past six years we have

2450
05:00:36,660 --> 05:00:42,000
been forced into our house because the air was so thick with dust we couldn't breathe. Yes,

2451
05:00:42,360 --> 05:00:46,920
over the past few months they've watered the road, but due to the high volume of trucks,

2452
05:00:47,280 --> 05:00:52,040
it only lasts for a short period of time at best. Over the past three to four years,

2453
05:00:52,360 --> 05:00:56,680
my family has experienced the damaging effects of road dust in our respiratory health.

2454
05:00:56,680 --> 05:00:59,160
So how are we going to be compensated for that?

2455
05:00:59,760 --> 05:01:02,040
We are the people who live in Brie them this road.

2456
05:01:02,440 --> 05:01:04,980
GCC and the planning departments seem to think

2457
05:01:04,980 --> 05:01:08,380
that by installing the temporary paving or barrier walls,

2458
05:01:08,820 --> 05:01:12,160
they will improve the experiences of the residents along the road.

2459
05:01:12,440 --> 05:01:14,280
And nothing is far from the truth.

2460
05:01:15,720 --> 05:01:20,740
We have met with them, the planning department and GCC

2461
05:01:20,740 --> 05:01:23,260
to discuss their situation on numerous occasions.

2462
05:01:23,680 --> 05:01:26,080
We told them at the idea of living behind a wall,

2463
05:01:26,080 --> 05:01:31,480
living through construction and living with the 200-plus coal trucks daily was not acceptable.

2464
05:01:32,320 --> 05:01:36,620
The impacts to our property value and lives are putting us between a rock and a hard place.

2465
05:01:36,880 --> 05:01:44,280
And quite frankly, one we are really struggling with, to continue to live in a home that we peeled the logs and then built with their own hands

2466
05:01:44,280 --> 05:01:47,760
and our circumstances that are intolerable is heartbreaking.

2467
05:01:48,840 --> 05:01:54,500
Our reality is that we can't sell our property for who in their right mind would want to live in a coal hall road.

2468
05:01:54,500 --> 05:01:58,000
with trucks rumbling by every five minutes.

2469
05:01:58,580 --> 05:02:01,680
We asked JCCC plain blank to purchase our property,

2470
05:02:02,520 --> 05:02:04,920
and they even admitted that they don't want it.

2471
05:02:05,140 --> 05:02:07,180
So tell me, what are we to do?

2472
05:02:08,200 --> 05:02:12,200
Until the road is improved, the whole way from intersection highway 140 to the mine.

2473
05:02:12,480 --> 05:02:15,140
JCCC should only be allowed to run those 55 trucks.

2474
05:02:15,700 --> 05:02:18,960
In the past, coal trucks used both the north and south routes to the mine.

2475
05:02:19,740 --> 05:02:22,360
JCCC water trucks still uses 120 south.

2476
05:02:22,360 --> 05:02:28,060
It seems to work for everybody, and no one group had to suffer the whole burden, that's equitable.

2477
05:02:28,940 --> 05:02:34,200
In conclusion, as we have stated from the very beginning, we do not want to shut the mind down.

2478
05:02:34,340 --> 05:02:36,220
We just want our quality of life back.

2479
05:02:36,720 --> 05:02:48,640
I'm asking, as a resident of Laplada County, who has lived on County Road 120 since 1984, for you are elected officials to help us.

2480
05:02:48,640 --> 05:02:54,060
send a message that you care for your residents and are looking out for our welfare and safety.

2481
05:02:54,660 --> 05:02:56,540
Commerce is only one aspect of lives.

2482
05:02:57,160 --> 05:03:00,400
We would like to think that our quality of life does indeed matter.

2483
05:03:00,800 --> 05:03:03,940
You are voted into your position to represent your constituents.

2484
05:03:04,800 --> 05:03:06,700
So please protect us.

2485
05:03:07,140 --> 05:03:14,660
Approving a class 2 permit that limits trucks to 55 on county road 12 north until all road improvements are completed.

2486
05:03:14,660 --> 05:03:22,620
allowing GCC to use other routes and encourage GCC to operate that mind long-term and

2487
05:03:22,620 --> 05:03:27,420
suing and ensuring those employees jobs for a longer period of time.

2488
05:03:28,180 --> 05:03:28,720
Thank you.

2489
05:03:35,570 --> 05:03:36,530
I am Karen Hunger.

2490
05:03:37,050 --> 05:03:39,830
I love at 32, 30 county road 120.

2491
05:03:41,230 --> 05:03:46,230
A late friend of mine, Eleanor Fraser, and our fathers and I purchased the old humpplace

2492
05:03:46,230 --> 05:03:49,750
at 32, 30 county road 120 and 1989.

2493
05:03:49,750 --> 05:03:57,150
And I'll try to back and forth from Shibraq, New Metz code to care for the farm and the ranch,

2494
05:03:57,670 --> 05:04:09,510
and tell 2005 when I moved to the ranch full-time. During this time, you never viewed more than two or three trucks a day in haygalt and in front of my house.

2495
05:04:10,070 --> 05:04:19,410
You could run walk your dogs, ride your horses, up and down county road 120, without the screaming, whining, pounding of these cold trucks.

2496
05:04:19,750 --> 05:04:34,430
Most of the cold trucks at this time, and until 2011, 2012, were traveling southbound on CR-19 to 140 intersection by Fort Lewis Elementary School.

2497
05:04:35,330 --> 05:04:46,070
The trucks passed by Bruce Gualsky's house, he did not like these trucks, and he kept the trucks from going by his house and the route was changed.

2498
05:04:46,070 --> 05:04:53,330
When the trucks solely traveled on 20 north, the dust wall of the 1930s came back.

2499
05:04:53,810 --> 05:04:57,310
Sometimes the dust is so bad, I can't see.

2500
05:04:58,350 --> 05:05:05,710
Truffs now are increasing and have tripled in volume passing by my house.

2501
05:05:06,310 --> 05:05:07,950
Where is the permit?

2502
05:05:08,630 --> 05:05:09,530
No permit.

2503
05:05:10,490 --> 05:05:25,650
This now is very scary situation when I walk up my steps from my home to see our 120 and have a truck at my shoulders as I am getting in and out of my truck or car.

2504
05:05:25,650 --> 05:05:34,390
I met with Mike Olson and Wade with more in January and told him I did not want a barrier in front of my property.

2505
05:05:35,090 --> 05:05:44,930
I do not understand where the wall would go or a new road would fit between my house and the small portion of the road.

2506
05:05:45,570 --> 05:05:51,390
Be real, truck limits 55 a day and let the mines stay open, they don't need to close.

2507
05:05:59,040 --> 05:06:10,500
My name is Gary Gratham. I live at 1124 County, World War 20 in Hespers. I bought the property in 1996 and have lived there continuously since 1998.

2508
05:06:11,860 --> 05:06:20,460
I have three issues I want to talk to you about equal protection under the law, mitigation, compatibility, and conditional approval.

2509
05:06:20,460 --> 05:06:26,700
The third equal protection, the Plotic County current approach to this class 2 land use permit application,

2510
05:06:27,540 --> 05:06:33,600
creates serious concerns about equal protection under the law for the residents and property owners along the CR120 North,

2511
05:06:34,180 --> 05:06:35,840
as well as for GCC energy.

2512
05:06:36,740 --> 05:06:43,640
GCC energy invested in a business in good faith reliance upon your assurance that they did not need a class 2 land use permit.

2513
05:06:44,400 --> 05:06:48,000
So we're all here because you need to put the gene back in the bottle.

2514
05:06:48,960 --> 05:06:54,720
Throughout this process, a great deal of testimony has been heard about the benefits of GCC energy

2515
05:06:54,720 --> 05:06:58,040
presence, and I dare say you're going to hear a good bit more.

2516
05:06:58,920 --> 05:07:04,700
These benefits are real, and they accrue broadly across many economic sectors in this region.

2517
05:07:05,540 --> 05:07:11,480
However, they come with significant costs, and the exit application imposes the majority

2518
05:07:11,480 --> 05:07:16,220
of those costs on a small number of property owners and residents on CR-12 North.

2519
05:07:17,240 --> 05:07:24,820
GCC's energy preference for CR-120 North is based solely on cost, and I would suggest

2520
05:07:24,820 --> 05:07:29,800
to the commissioners that compromising the safety, health, quality of life, and property

2521
05:07:29,800 --> 05:07:35,300
values for a select group of citizens in order to minimize project costs for corporate

2522
05:07:35,300 --> 05:07:41,160
applicant, and because it is politically expedient, does not constitute equal protection

2523
05:07:41,160 --> 05:07:41,940
under the law.

2524
05:07:42,720 --> 05:07:49,760
That's a last planning commission hearing the commissioners just commented that quote C.R. 120 North is getting the short end of the stick.

2525
05:07:50,160 --> 05:07:58,300
Unquote. Why is that acceptable? Why should the health safety quality of life and property values of one group of property owners?

2526
05:07:59,140 --> 05:08:00,300
Trump, those of another.

2527
05:08:01,760 --> 05:08:07,020
We have been told by the planning department Fort Lewis Mesa Fire Protection District.

2528
05:08:07,020 --> 05:08:13,000
GCC Energy's road consultant that has better to focus all the negative impacts on the smallist

2529
05:08:13,000 --> 05:08:14,220
group. Our

2530
05:08:14,220 --> 05:08:18,420
neighbors on alternate routes tell us it's because there aren't many of us, we're older,

2531
05:08:18,840 --> 05:08:21,300
and we don't have children. None of

2532
05:08:21,300 --> 05:08:25,480
those arguments would be acceptable if the word black was substituted as the descriptor.

2533
05:08:26,300 --> 05:08:28,060
So hashtag CR120

2534
05:08:28,060 --> 05:08:31,800
North Lives Matter. It's the county's

2535
05:08:31,800 --> 05:08:36,660
duty to provide equally for the safety of all its residents, a six-fold

2536
05:08:36,660 --> 05:08:40,540
increase in traffic results in an exponentially higher probability of an accident.

2537
05:08:41,340 --> 05:08:45,420
When that increase is predominantly due to heavy trucks and the probable severity of the

2538
05:08:45,420 --> 05:08:47,500
accident has a multiplier of at least 20.

2539
05:08:48,560 --> 05:08:53,320
There are no detailed plans to address the numerous limited visibility issues, driveways,

2540
05:08:53,500 --> 05:08:57,920
no-one-out-croppings, which also increase the probability of an accident and its probable

2541
05:08:57,920 --> 05:08:58,460
severity.

2542
05:08:59,120 --> 05:09:02,920
In fact, as you've heard today, there are no detailed plans for the road period.

2543
05:09:04,580 --> 05:09:10,160
Emergency response times, EMS, fire police, or any group should not be highly veritable.

2544
05:09:11,300 --> 05:09:15,740
Routing all the whole traffic on CR-12 North makes it likely that a 20-minute response

2545
05:09:15,740 --> 05:09:21,280
time could increase to 60-plus minutes, depending upon truck activity, time of day, and

2546
05:09:21,280 --> 05:09:23,040
what kind of construction is going on.

2547
05:09:23,520 --> 05:09:27,820
It's clearly a reduction in current service levels for the CR-12 North residents.

2548
05:09:28,820 --> 05:09:37,460
These examples, and there are many others, reflective views that it's permeated this entire process for the last three years,

2549
05:09:38,180 --> 05:09:46,760
that the safety, health, quality of life, and property values of CR120 North residents are expendable for the greater good of our neighbors,

2550
05:09:47,280 --> 05:09:52,740
GCC energy, and the county. And we just simply don't subscribe to that view.

2551
05:09:53,540 --> 05:09:56,100
Now, to move to no mitigation, no compatibility.

2552
05:09:57,600 --> 05:10:00,340
Many of the mitigation measures proposed in this application,

2553
05:10:00,740 --> 05:10:03,460
simply substitute one amp for impact for another.

2554
05:10:04,200 --> 05:10:07,600
For example, five trucks and owes to tail 20 minutes apart

2555
05:10:07,600 --> 05:10:10,800
or five trucks for minute support, your choice.

2556
05:10:12,420 --> 05:10:15,440
Fathered by the noise or the view, we'll put up an eight foot wall,

2557
05:10:15,560 --> 05:10:17,100
and you can look at the back of that.

2558
05:10:17,720 --> 05:10:23,620
And even more, Greece, as example, is the major mitigation proposed, a local 10-plus units

2559
05:10:23,620 --> 05:10:28,540
paved highway with 12-foot lanes, three-foot shoulders, and a 60-foot right away.

2560
05:10:29,300 --> 05:10:34,720
This highway is completed, would be totally beyond comparison to any other county road in

2561
05:10:34,720 --> 05:10:35,120
the area.

2562
05:10:35,860 --> 05:10:43,680
In our view, such a local 10-plus units highway would, in and of itself, adversely and irrevocably

2563
05:10:43,680 --> 05:10:50,240
altered the character of the upper-hagolts neighborhood. Nothing even remotely mitigates

2564
05:10:50,240 --> 05:10:55,760
the adverse impact of this 60-foot wide stab through the heart of our neighborhood has been

2565
05:10:55,760 --> 05:11:02,100
offered by GCC or proposed by the planning department. Rather than making GCC energies

2566
05:11:02,100 --> 05:11:07,500
industrial presence compatible with the neighborhood, what this highway would do is completely

2567
05:11:07,500 --> 05:11:11,700
transform the neighborhood to make it compatible with GCC energy.

2568
05:11:13,910 --> 05:11:14,790
Now, to turn the conditional

2569
05:11:14,790 --> 05:11:19,930
approval, we recognize that the concept of mitigation to achieve compatibility and

2570
05:11:19,930 --> 05:11:25,590
body in the Laplata County Land Use Code is highly subjective and largely a matter of

2571
05:11:25,590 --> 05:11:30,930
perception. If you choose to accept the local 10 plus units highway is mitigation that

2572
05:11:30,930 --> 05:11:35,890
achieves compatibility, we urge you to reject the proposed road improvement agreement.

2573
05:11:35,890 --> 05:11:41,770
Limit the number of crux to 2010 levels until the entire hall road is completed, and

2574
05:11:41,770 --> 05:11:45,150
cap the number of crux on the completed hall road at 120.

2575
05:11:46,350 --> 05:11:51,610
We would remind the commissioners that alternate routes exist, and that limited temporary

2576
05:11:51,610 --> 05:11:58,130
use of them as a condition of approval would lessen the business impact on GCC energy, and

2577
05:11:58,130 --> 05:12:01,810
facilitate timely completion of GCC's hall road.

2578
05:12:02,590 --> 05:12:05,650
Mitigation delayed is mitigation denied.

2579
05:12:06,950 --> 05:12:07,970
Thank you for your attention.

2580
05:12:37,580 --> 05:12:39,800
Mistress, what she's opening that up, I'll go ahead and introduce myself.

2581
05:12:40,200 --> 05:12:44,340
My name is Jeff Robbins, six of a 90 second avenue here in Durango, Colorado.

2582
05:12:44,680 --> 05:12:46,040
I represent all of these folks.

2583
05:12:46,460 --> 05:12:50,080
There are members of Southwest Colorado advocates, which is a non-profit.

2584
05:12:50,520 --> 05:12:55,780
Its members are owners of property, along the county road, 120 and 120 north.

2585
05:12:57,300 --> 05:13:04,580
So we wanted you to hear from them, they are the impact folks involved in all of this.

2586
05:13:04,680 --> 05:13:08,860
I'm going to sum it up with a little bit of a presentation now.

2587
05:13:11,180 --> 05:13:17,740
They all, to a T, don't want this road, and it's improved state.

2588
05:13:18,720 --> 05:13:22,480
As Mr. Grantham just said, that will change the neighborhood.

2589
05:13:22,480 --> 05:13:29,800
It will turn it from the rural neighborhood that it is now to a different neighborhood because of the road.

2590
05:13:30,300 --> 05:13:37,180
Now having said that though, they're all willing to allow it to happen and willing to allow all of the improvements to take place.

2591
05:13:37,440 --> 05:13:42,720
And willing to allow GCC to have the ultimate number of trucks that they desire, which is 120.

2592
05:13:43,640 --> 05:13:50,540
Between now and then though, they ask you to put a hard number on the number of trucks at 55.

2593
05:13:52,140 --> 05:13:54,540
And here's how we get there.

2594
05:13:54,980 --> 05:14:02,820
We submit that GCC is asking you to wave and not apply a current county design standards for the first five years of this project.

2595
05:14:03,580 --> 05:14:05,280
This you cannot and should not do.

2596
05:14:05,780 --> 05:14:10,360
You cannot ignore and fail to apply county code provisions applicable to this project.

2597
05:14:10,740 --> 05:14:12,860
And you should not because it's fundamentally unfair.

2598
05:14:13,840 --> 05:14:16,820
If having identified that as a problem, we will propose a solution.

2599
05:14:18,940 --> 05:14:29,880
All right, so here are some of the standards, development-generating traffic, which is above the current surface level capacities of the roads, is prohibited unless improved to meet service level needs.

2600
05:14:31,240 --> 05:14:33,880
GCC's proposed truck level,

2601
05:14:36,620 --> 05:14:44,740
GCC's proposed truck level is beyond what is allowable on the county road 120 right now.

2602
05:14:45,200 --> 05:14:49,380
I think we've heard from pretty much everybody that there's agreement on that.

2603
05:14:49,680 --> 05:14:56,140
The road here, the road design standards, the project produces a large volume, load of traffic that is beyond the capacity of the current road.

2604
05:14:58,750 --> 05:14:59,970
This is the design standard.

2605
05:15:00,000 --> 05:15:16,160
That is applicable. Jim Davis spoke to it. The applicant spoke to it. Our engineer spoke to it. There are five things that are needed. A surface with the 24 feet plus three shoulders, 60 feet of right away. It must be paved and it must meet sight distance and horizontal alignment.

2606
05:15:19,020 --> 05:15:31,840
Everyone agrees. The standard applies. Staff. GCC. Mr. Hodgston. It's a shell. Guys, it's not a may. New developments shall be required to construct

2607
05:15:31,840 --> 05:15:36,660
improvements to existing roads on-site and off-site and accordance with their projected impact

2608
05:15:36,660 --> 05:15:37,440
on these roads.

2609
05:15:39,820 --> 05:15:43,080
This is a required standard that you can only approve this.

2610
05:15:43,320 --> 05:15:47,440
If the application meets all required standards and you determine it to be compatible,

2611
05:15:47,740 --> 05:15:48,860
which we'll talk about,

2612
05:15:51,930 --> 05:15:55,110
the compliance with the standard is required upfront and phasing is

2613
05:15:55,110 --> 05:15:55,690
not allowed.

2614
05:15:57,210 --> 05:16:02,530
With regard to commercial projects in this community, oftentimes off-site improvements

2615
05:16:02,530 --> 05:16:04,270
need to be engaged in.

2616
05:16:04,270 --> 05:16:11,310
Those need to take place before the new development uses those roads.

2617
05:16:12,310 --> 05:16:16,050
The Plan of County Code does not allow the standard to be met via phasing the improvements.

2618
05:16:17,250 --> 05:16:23,610
However, GCC is asking the applicant proposes to achieve these minimum requirements via an executed RAA,

2619
05:16:23,730 --> 05:16:27,170
capturing the improvements within a phased development schedule.

2620
05:16:28,030 --> 05:16:31,510
We don't believe GCC can ask you to do that.

2621
05:16:31,510 --> 05:16:32,330
and what that was.

2622
05:16:33,450 --> 05:16:35,230
Jim is putting a tough spot.

2623
05:16:35,970 --> 05:16:38,910
He's gone on record saying that he's okay with this.

2624
05:16:39,250 --> 05:16:42,970
We will allow them to continue to transport the call prior to completing the reconstruction

2625
05:16:43,430 --> 05:16:47,470
of the North 6.4 miles of county road 120 to current standards.

2626
05:16:49,810 --> 05:16:52,130
County staff is in a tough spot too.

2627
05:16:52,430 --> 05:16:54,510
And they admit this is not the typical approach.

2628
05:16:55,210 --> 05:16:59,270
Projects compliant with the county code typically complete all public improvements prior

2629
05:16:59,270 --> 05:17:00,830
to commencement of the permitted years.

2630
05:17:00,830 --> 05:17:07,650
I would suggest that county projects are always required to construct necessary improvements before the commercial use starts up.

2631
05:17:11,210 --> 05:17:17,050
Here's staff's justification, in page 11 of the staff report, with this existing use and outstanding land use permit,

2632
05:17:17,510 --> 05:17:20,950
additional tools are sometimes needed to bring the project into compliance.

2633
05:17:23,060 --> 05:17:29,360
We are sympathetic to staff as we mentioned. It's been put in a tough spot, but it cannot create additional tools out of thin air.

2634
05:17:30,140 --> 05:17:34,300
The tools that are available to you are the ones contained in your land use code.

2635
05:17:34,300 --> 05:17:39,240
GCC cannot simply suggest that the county way of application of the standard for the first

2636
05:17:39,240 --> 05:17:44,420
five years and allow the coal mine to access over and admitted non-code compliant road

2637
05:17:44,420 --> 05:17:45,620
during that timeframe.

2638
05:17:45,980 --> 05:17:50,440
Nor can the county develop a non-code-based mitigation measures, no matter how nice they may

2639
05:17:50,440 --> 05:17:55,300
be, and substitute them for the objective road design standards contained within the code.

2640
05:17:57,720 --> 05:18:03,200
GCC proposes mitigation, staff admits the compliance occurs once all the road improvements are accomplished.

2641
05:18:05,100 --> 05:18:13,840
Here's why I suggest that you can't not apply Title 74, Chapter 91 up front and require all the improvements.

2642
05:18:14,380 --> 05:18:16,060
And it's because that is the code.

2643
05:18:16,180 --> 05:18:23,460
And the intent of your road design section is to provide the design engineer with standards that will ensure the design and construction of roadways,

2644
05:18:23,960 --> 05:18:30,840
which will incorporate high quality engineering quality, high engineering qualities and provide the public a safe and durable roadway.

2645
05:18:30,840 --> 05:18:36,760
You have standards in your book for a reason, you don't create standards by pulling mitigation

2646
05:18:36,760 --> 05:18:40,700
tools out of the air for the first three or four years while the road is not compliant.

2647
05:18:42,880 --> 05:18:50,200
We submit that if you wave application of 7491 at the outset and allow the applicant to use

2648
05:18:50,200 --> 05:18:55,740
the county road before undertaking the required necessary improvements that this would likely

2649
05:18:55,740 --> 05:19:00,220
be an arbitrary and capricious decision and it would be a decision that certainly contradicts

2650
05:19:00,220 --> 05:19:03,020
black and white objective county road design standards.

2651
05:19:05,200 --> 05:19:06,460
So where does that leave us?

2652
05:19:06,980 --> 05:19:11,880
GCC is requesting you approve the application as is with a face set of road improvements.

2653
05:19:13,140 --> 05:19:15,340
We are concerned for you to approve it that way.

2654
05:19:15,640 --> 05:19:20,240
We were concerned that that would force us to ask a judge whether that action is indeed arbitrary

2655
05:19:20,240 --> 05:19:22,940
or capricious and contrary to county road standards.

2656
05:19:23,500 --> 05:19:29,240
I think we've made the case that it would be that you've got to apply 7491 upfront, and

2657
05:19:29,240 --> 05:19:37,980
they can only use the road once it is in a completed application, and once the duck, so here's

2658
05:19:37,980 --> 05:19:41,520
the no-law suit option, and you've heard it from all the neighbors, you've heard it from

2659
05:19:41,520 --> 05:19:47,240
Mr. Hodgson, phase it, but reduced the trucks to 55 in the interim. As you heard from

2660
05:19:47,240 --> 05:19:52,680
Mr. Hodgson, the 55 number, he's not very comfortable with it. He would rather it be a

2661
05:19:52,680 --> 05:19:58,460
number less than that. But in talking with him, he believes that you can get a reasonable

2662
05:19:58,460 --> 05:20:06,200
compromise for interim truck numbers, assuring a reasonable degree of safety, as 50-5, 50-5-80-t or 110-round-ship trucks.

2663
05:20:06,760 --> 05:20:11,100
The neighbors have agreed. They're not happy with it either, but they've agreed to 55.

2664
05:20:11,840 --> 05:20:17,240
This number also correlates with the 2010 truck levels. Therefore, it correlates with any grandfathered

2665
05:20:17,240 --> 05:20:22,620
argument, GCC may have to run trucks. The grandfathered argument is they argument that they were told earlier

2666
05:20:22,620 --> 05:20:26,860
and they didn't need a permit, and then in 2010 they were told they needed a permit.

2667
05:20:26,860 --> 05:20:34,680
So, it's at that 2010 level, the number of trucks that are running there, that's the number of trucks that they could argue somehow, and they could run without any permit.

2668
05:20:35,360 --> 05:20:42,960
So, the 55 works from a safety perspective, the neighbors are willing to choke it down, and it correlates with the 2010 levels.

2669
05:20:43,500 --> 05:20:46,880
It's also consistent with the haygulch folks.

2670
05:20:48,180 --> 05:20:55,160
The GCC needs to run more trucks. I would submit that's irrelevant. I would ask you to Google your lane use code for the word economic.

2671
05:20:55,160 --> 05:21:00,080
and it won't find it. It's not part of your lane use code criteria. But if they need more

2672
05:21:00,080 --> 05:21:04,340
trucks in the interim between now and the time all the improvements are done, they can

2673
05:21:04,340 --> 05:21:08,480
always run them south, like they used to. When we heard from Mr. Hogston that that may take

2674
05:21:08,480 --> 05:21:10,920
some work, but it is a viable alternative.

2675
05:21:13,300 --> 05:21:15,580
Finally, under this option, GCC controls the pace

2676
05:21:15,580 --> 05:21:21,560
of development. They could do all the improvements this year, and then they'd get 120 trucks.

2677
05:21:22,340 --> 05:21:29,140
They could, we suggest you remove phasing from the RA altogether, that it's 55, and then once

2678
05:21:29,140 --> 05:21:33,760
all the improvements are done, it jumps to what they had asked for, which is 120.

2679
05:21:34,420 --> 05:21:39,640
The only interim measure is the 5580T on 120 North, and again, that doesn't preclude them

2680
05:21:39,640 --> 05:21:41,460
from running additional trucks south.

2681
05:21:42,700 --> 05:21:51,080
So I've gotten for you revised findings and conditions, and I've got for you a revised

2682
05:21:51,080 --> 05:21:55,100
road improvements agreement, having identified a problem we wanted to provide you with

2683
05:21:55,100 --> 05:21:55,640
a solution.

2684
05:21:59,430 --> 05:22:04,950
What the revised findings do in red line is remove the phasing out of it, and it removes the

2685
05:22:04,950 --> 05:22:10,770
80 and the 100 and the substitutes in the 55, that's essentially the changes, and I've got

2686
05:22:10,770 --> 05:22:12,070
copies for you here along as well.

2687
05:22:12,070 --> 05:22:17,450
So for the reasons articulated by my clients and co-counsel Mr. Danielson, we submit this

2688
05:22:17,450 --> 05:22:23,690
project is not compatible. Air, water, noise, dust, traffic. We submit they've not met

2689
05:22:23,690 --> 05:22:30,210
their requirement to establish compatibility. But we understand that the county is looking

2690
05:22:30,210 --> 05:22:35,210
hard for a win-win. We understand and we appreciate the amount of time and effort the county

2691
05:22:35,210 --> 05:22:39,890
and GCC for that matter have put into this application. It has been a monumental task.

2692
05:22:40,810 --> 05:22:51,170
But we think that you can only find a win-win if in the interim a safe number of trucks is traveling on that road before all the improvements are done.

2693
05:22:51,810 --> 05:23:04,890
Therefore, we request you amend the findings, conditions, and the RIA consistent with our revisions to allow at most 55 ADTs during the interim and prior to the code required improvements to county road 12 north.

2694
05:23:04,890 --> 05:23:13,830
Remove all other phases and let the applicant control its own destiny to achieve the ultimate 120 ADTs that it desires after the improvements are completed.

2695
05:23:16,340 --> 05:23:17,720
Thank you.

2696
05:23:17,980 --> 05:23:22,500
Any of our clients or here are experts here if you have any questions for us?

2697
05:23:25,980 --> 05:23:31,320
but also state Cynthia R.O. backs up as advocates to 3rd.

2698
05:23:31,320 --> 05:23:36,200
Cynthia R.O. backs up as advocates to 13 West 26th Street.

2699
05:23:36,880 --> 05:23:40,360
We had one resident who didn't have time to speak,

2700
05:23:40,500 --> 05:23:44,700
and if it's okay with you, he's going to get a pink slip

2701
05:23:44,700 --> 05:23:46,420
and speak during the public.

2702
05:23:46,600 --> 05:23:48,800
You have five minutes and 20 seconds.

2703
05:23:53,990 --> 05:23:59,070
I'm Dr. Tom Williams, 1644 County Road, 120 Hespers,

2704
05:23:59,070 --> 05:24:03,450
in a landowner in county road 120 for 20 years, and I oppose this class to permit.

2705
05:24:04,070 --> 05:24:08,990
I'm a board certified fellowship trained otoleterangologist and I treat disease of the upper

2706
05:24:08,990 --> 05:24:10,990
airway impaired nasal sinuses.

2707
05:24:12,290 --> 05:24:16,750
Estonishingly, GCCC has increased their call production by 300% since moving to their new

2708
05:24:16,750 --> 05:24:18,470
location with no permit.

2709
05:24:18,890 --> 05:24:23,830
With this higher production, TREC traffic is correspondingly increased to a dangerous level.

2710
05:24:23,970 --> 05:24:28,030
It's demonstrated by the January material report.

2711
05:24:28,030 --> 05:24:36,570
This report indicates that increased traffic on the unpaid portions of the road produces dust that exceeds the EPA air quality standards.

2712
05:24:37,030 --> 05:24:44,010
As a physician, I have personally have personal experience treating adverse effects of the toxic levels that road dust.

2713
05:24:44,330 --> 05:24:48,910
The road dust has been shown to exacerbate asthma, sinus disease, and pulmonary disease.

2714
05:24:49,370 --> 05:24:56,330
Of course, particles from the road dust will lodge in the upper airway system and will cause severe irritation.

2715
05:24:56,330 --> 05:25:04,470
effects are more pronounced in the infants and the elderly and those with asthma shown by

2716
05:25:04,470 --> 05:25:09,450
our residents. These particles are also linked to respiratory cancers. We've been told by

2717
05:25:09,450 --> 05:25:16,990
GCC that their medication will reduce dust to the level of tract tires. That height.

2718
05:25:17,550 --> 05:25:22,250
I personally have witnessed dust clouds and hay gults residents have video and picture evidence

2719
05:25:22,250 --> 05:25:27,570
of disciplines, billowing above the trucks, coating surrounding trees and rooftops, contrary

2720
05:25:27,570 --> 05:25:30,390
to the conclusion of GCC's Trinity consultants.

2721
05:25:30,930 --> 05:25:38,010
At present level of truck traffic, the dust concentrations on CR120 extend, far past the

2722
05:25:38,010 --> 05:25:41,090
roadway, as demonstrated by the McVill report.

2723
05:25:41,650 --> 05:25:47,690
This is also demonstrated in the literature, a CSU paper, shows that for every vehicle

2724
05:25:47,690 --> 05:25:55,090
traveling on a unpaid road, one mile for one day per year, one test, one ton of dust is deposited

2725
05:25:55,090 --> 05:26:02,950
along the corridor by extending 500 feet out from the medium. That's for passenger cars,

2726
05:26:03,090 --> 05:26:09,290
for cold trucks at present levels. We calculated it to be 50,000 tons in six months. Also,

2727
05:26:09,530 --> 05:26:14,570
dust from 120 is a particular concern due to the coal in the dust that drops from the trucks.

2728
05:26:14,570 --> 05:26:18,950
This has not been studied, but called thus contains heavy metals, and it's a cardcinogen.

2729
05:26:19,490 --> 05:26:26,030
The amount in our road dust is unknown, and since the PM 2.5 is linked with premature mortality

2730
05:26:26,030 --> 05:26:29,810
in cardiovascular disease and respiratory illness, this is a danger.

2731
05:26:30,530 --> 05:26:34,210
The second health concern is noise pollution from the high volume of trucks.

2732
05:26:36,170 --> 05:26:41,570
The high decibel episodic intermittent noise production is one of the worst forms of noise

2733
05:26:41,570 --> 05:26:47,170
and is related to cardiovascular disease, heart attacks, hypertension, and behavioral changes.

2734
05:26:47,830 --> 05:26:54,990
These include fatigue, decrease working capacity, and disturbed family relationships and high stress.

2735
05:26:55,350 --> 05:27:01,410
The effects are worsened when sleep is disturbed, and this can cause irreversible medical complications,

2736
05:27:02,590 --> 05:27:06,730
including decreased alertness that leads to accidents, injuries, and death.

2737
05:27:06,730 --> 05:27:14,970
The mitigation effects are efforts by GCC to control the dust and noise are ineffectual due

2738
05:27:14,970 --> 05:27:16,850
to the share volume of trucks.

2739
05:27:17,410 --> 05:27:23,810
The McFeedle report concluded that decreasing the truck numbers to 2010 levels of 55

2740
05:27:23,810 --> 05:27:29,570
per day significantly reduces dust production enough to mitigate the damaging effects.

2741
05:27:30,050 --> 05:27:36,710
I agree with that conclusion, and I urge the commissioners to protect the health of the

2742
05:27:36,710 --> 05:27:43,810
see truck traffic to 2010 levels until the road is paved for its entire length.

2743
05:27:44,150 --> 05:27:45,410
Thank you very much.

2744
05:27:47,400 --> 05:27:48,180
Thank you.

2745
05:27:53,130 --> 05:27:53,570
All right.

2746
05:27:53,830 --> 05:28:01,150
Thank you for your testimony and questions from commissioners.

2747
05:28:06,740 --> 05:28:06,960
Okay.

2748
05:28:07,800 --> 05:28:08,740
We'll be happy to start.

2749
05:28:09,120 --> 05:28:09,920
It's time around.

2750
05:28:10,340 --> 05:28:12,660
Thank you very much for your presentation.

2751
05:28:13,580 --> 05:28:16,500
A lot of thought went into all of your comments.

2752
05:28:17,160 --> 05:28:23,500
I guess, Mr. Hudson, I'd like to start with some questions for you regarding your study.

2753
05:28:27,240 --> 05:28:36,460
I guess to make it simple, why 55, why not 60, why not 65, 70, can you explain your rationale?

2754
05:28:37,280 --> 05:28:47,560
Sure, we looked at the 55, that's essentially the number, it's the adjusted number to six days a week.

2755
05:28:48,540 --> 05:28:56,260
It's those 2010 levels at the time the letter was sent to GCC telling they needed to get a permit.

2756
05:28:57,000 --> 05:29:09,140
So essentially anything, the way I think of it, anything above that level, if you increase traffic generation or loading, is new traffic, it's new development traffic.

2757
05:29:09,720 --> 05:29:17,000
So that's the way I see it, is anything above that level should be considered new traffic and

2758
05:29:17,000 --> 05:29:19,300
And so that's the main point there.

2759
05:29:19,340 --> 05:29:24,300
And again, the hay gulch advisory committee also recommended that.

2760
05:29:25,360 --> 05:29:29,280
So some of the other reasons, the 55,

2761
05:29:31,440 --> 05:29:32,140
it's mentioned.

2762
05:29:33,740 --> 05:29:38,360
If you have 80, it's basically a high every 5.8 minutes,

2763
05:29:38,500 --> 05:29:41,400
I think, is very peak times, essentially the truck volumes.

2764
05:29:43,780 --> 05:29:52,060
There's a built-in 20% variation to that, so the 55 is actually the monthly average and

2765
05:29:52,060 --> 05:29:59,600
they're allowed to deviate up to 20% on any given day, above that 55 number.

2766
05:30:00,000 --> 05:30:10,200
So for a good chunk of the days and looking at their past truck data, there is quite a bit of

2767
05:30:10,200 --> 05:30:17,600
variation there, taking advantage of that. And that 20%, that 55 considers that. You know, that many

2768
05:30:17,600 --> 05:30:23,180
a day, they're going to have quite a bit more than that, 55, and then some days they'll have less

2769
05:30:23,180 --> 05:30:29,820
than that. But it's those days, and it's a significant number of days, when you have 20% over

2770
05:30:29,820 --> 05:30:37,240
that, you know, you've got that much more exposure to that much more volume of trucks on the roadway.

2771
05:30:37,880 --> 05:30:39,400
So that's the other part of that.

2772
05:30:46,680 --> 05:30:52,480
You know, and then again, to consider the roadway standards, and this is common of a lot of counties,

2773
05:30:53,100 --> 05:30:57,640
you know, a local roadway talks about in terms of number of single family dwellings units.

2774
05:30:59,400 --> 05:31:04,660
It's equivalent to 380 t is equivalent to 30 single family homes.

2775
05:31:04,660 --> 05:31:11,820
And it's a general mix of traffic is mostly residential with maybe some businesses thrown in.

2776
05:31:12,000 --> 05:31:21,520
But in this case, we're talking about a much greater, it's a commercial, it's dominated by a large commercial trucks.

2777
05:31:21,700 --> 05:31:24,000
It's not your typical local roadway.

2778
05:31:24,440 --> 05:31:31,100
So that's another reason I looked at that as well as because it's not your typical local roadway traffic mix.

2779
05:31:32,060 --> 05:31:49,040
And for the record, you mentioned the company could split its route and take some of the trucks south, that would be if it wanted an increase over the 55 on county road, 120 north,

2780
05:31:49,040 --> 05:31:55,820
If it needed more trucks per day to meet its obligations, it could send that traffic south.

2781
05:31:56,700 --> 05:32:00,220
The 55 is basically your trip loaded truck.

2782
05:32:00,300 --> 05:32:01,460
That's your trip generation.

2783
05:32:01,840 --> 05:32:04,340
That's what the mind generates in terms of traffic.

2784
05:32:05,000 --> 05:32:14,020
You can choose to load it all onto 120 north and keep that 55 on that road and not do anything and not load itself.

2785
05:32:14,020 --> 05:32:22,200
Or you could take a look at ways that you could, and as I said, 120 South and 119 are perfect

2786
05:32:22,200 --> 05:32:22,700
either.

2787
05:32:24,160 --> 05:32:31,120
But it's a way that I think with some relatively minor improvements, and some splitting

2788
05:32:31,120 --> 05:32:37,360
of the traffic, you could get more tripped generation, truck tripped generation, and

2789
05:32:37,360 --> 05:32:42,380
more coal production by splitting that up and taking advantage of that.

2790
05:32:42,380 --> 05:32:49,580
Did you analyze and report what exact improvements would need to be made to the road going

2791
05:32:49,580 --> 05:32:50,220
to the south?

2792
05:32:50,740 --> 05:32:58,720
Well, to start with, I looked at in my letter of April 7, I show a potential improvement

2793
05:32:58,720 --> 05:33:00,440
down at Highway 140.

2794
05:33:01,500 --> 05:33:07,820
I think part of the reason there was a problem before is that trucks couldn't make, can I bring

2795
05:33:07,820 --> 05:33:08,440
this up in short?

2796
05:33:08,440 --> 05:33:26,140
So here, a seven in our attachment is it, do you have an attachment number, it's figure a seven is the last, it's the last page of the letter.

2797
05:33:26,140 --> 05:33:29,040
I've got 76 other letters.

2798
05:33:30,780 --> 05:33:38,590
I don't have the, it's our April 7 supplemental letter.

2799
05:33:49,970 --> 05:33:59,670
Anyway, it basically shows a radius improvement on the, it's basically on the southwest corner

2800
05:33:59,670 --> 05:34:02,990
of County Road 119 and Highway 140.

2801
05:34:04,050 --> 05:34:05,390
The statute is 72.

2802
05:34:07,090 --> 05:34:08,890
Because of the skew of the intersection,

2803
05:34:10,190 --> 05:34:11,910
I can understand why they couldn't

2804
05:34:11,910 --> 05:34:13,510
without an improvement.

2805
05:34:13,950 --> 05:34:15,850
Like trying to use it as it exists today.

2806
05:34:16,610 --> 05:34:18,990
You can't make the turn because the truck would swing

2807
05:34:18,990 --> 05:34:20,110
into the oncoming traffic.

2808
05:34:20,350 --> 05:34:22,410
So what they did was they believed that

2809
05:34:22,410 --> 05:34:23,930
what they did was running straight across

2810
05:34:23,930 --> 05:34:26,270
and that's created some problems with the school

2811
05:34:26,270 --> 05:34:28,170
and the parent pick up.

2812
05:34:28,210 --> 05:34:30,890
But if this radius were improved,

2813
05:34:31,410 --> 05:34:35,430
And for what I could tell them, there may be the right way to do it.

2814
05:34:36,130 --> 05:34:41,790
If you improve that rate, this truck can make that turn and enter that self-bound lane

2815
05:34:41,790 --> 05:34:43,510
without encroaching in the northbound lane.

2816
05:34:43,890 --> 05:34:49,290
So that's just one possibility that they could look at for an improvement that could help.

2817
05:34:50,030 --> 05:34:57,430
And there's some other radius improvements that they could do along 11119 and that 11116 route.

2818
05:34:57,430 --> 05:35:02,990
that they could look into, and then again, applying some of those things that they've done

2819
05:35:02,990 --> 05:35:07,390
on 120 north of the speeds to maybe make that a viable route.

2820
05:35:07,510 --> 05:35:13,350
And again, it's only for a short period of time until they get the road finished on 120 north.

2821
05:35:13,970 --> 05:35:19,010
So, it's not being used in perpetuity is just for a short period of time.

2822
05:35:19,010 --> 05:35:19,330
Okay.

2823
05:35:22,290 --> 05:35:23,230
Thank you.

2824
05:35:25,200 --> 05:35:28,480
Hi. Next question is for staff.

2825
05:35:31,300 --> 05:35:32,600
Good afternoon, Mr.

2826
05:35:32,900 --> 05:35:35,820
Mr. Hudson's up on the Mr. Hudson.

2827
05:35:36,080 --> 05:35:37,260
Continue this line of questioning.

2828
05:35:37,960 --> 05:35:38,780
Thank you.

2829
05:35:39,120 --> 05:35:42,000
Commissioner Lackle asked a question that I have had intended asked.

2830
05:35:42,120 --> 05:35:47,180
But I have a follow-up and that is you talked about a truck exiting off of

2831
05:35:47,180 --> 05:35:55,080
on 19 on to Highway 140, what issues are related to that intersection for, and enter only,

2832
05:35:55,560 --> 05:35:56,300
let's say.

2833
05:35:57,700 --> 05:36:05,960
For enter only, it's probably more costly and hired, because if you enter traffic that way,

2834
05:36:06,200 --> 05:36:17,160
you're probably looking at a left turn improvement on the state highway, which is, it can

2835
05:36:17,160 --> 05:36:20,140
to do a left turn when you have typically wide and both sides.

2836
05:36:20,280 --> 05:36:21,520
You have to widen on the north side.

2837
05:36:22,380 --> 05:36:26,840
So the entering component is probably more extensive

2838
05:36:26,840 --> 05:36:27,800
in terms of improvements.

2839
05:36:28,520 --> 05:36:35,520
If you exit the trips that way, and if they're exiting south,

2840
05:36:36,520 --> 05:36:40,640
you probably don't have enough traffic from what I could tell

2841
05:36:40,640 --> 05:36:43,820
to justify the need to build an acceleration line.

2842
05:36:44,140 --> 05:36:46,980
Now, that's up to C got to make that determination.

2843
05:36:46,980 --> 05:36:53,580
But based looking at the numbers, it didn't look like it necessarily required an acceleration

2844
05:36:53,580 --> 05:36:54,920
way in going south.

2845
05:36:55,640 --> 05:37:02,420
So all that perhaps could be needed is the radius improvement, so the truck could make

2846
05:37:02,420 --> 05:37:03,040
that turn.

2847
05:37:04,280 --> 05:37:12,280
My understanding was that the loaded trucks were more post-higher risk than unloaded trucks.

2848
05:37:12,280 --> 05:37:18,600
And so if that was the exit route, if Iran from the north end to the south end, those would

2849
05:37:18,600 --> 05:37:24,360
be loaded trucks dealing with the five county road intersections and more hills and so on

2850
05:37:24,360 --> 05:37:31,820
that made that less desirable as an exit route for loaded trucks.

2851
05:37:31,920 --> 05:37:33,680
That's something to consider, sure.

2852
05:37:34,480 --> 05:37:42,260
But looking at that section to the south, it's much less sort of mountainous terrain than

2853
05:37:42,260 --> 05:37:48,700
you have further on to County Red 1, 20 North, that the grades are more rolling. They're

2854
05:37:48,700 --> 05:37:51,860
not as severe in terms of the grades.

2855
05:37:54,890 --> 05:37:55,610
Thank you.

2856
05:38:01,350 --> 05:38:02,170
I have no questions.

2857
05:38:02,510 --> 05:38:02,750
Thank you.

2858
05:38:02,750 --> 05:38:04,450
Can I ask one of you there?

2859
05:38:07,910 --> 05:38:12,750
When you say that improvements can be done to one on the south or minor improvements, do

2860
05:38:12,750 --> 05:38:20,250
also have an opinion as to how many trucks can go that route safely or vehicles just in general.

2861
05:38:20,250 --> 05:38:23,270
given the improvements that you have contemplated?

2862
05:38:27,420 --> 05:38:30,020
Yeah, I wouldn't probably, I mean, I think you could probably

2863
05:38:30,020 --> 05:38:35,340
do half the trucks, the exiting vehicles that perhaps

2864
05:38:35,340 --> 05:38:38,520
want to go to the south to the Mexico, which is probably

2865
05:38:38,520 --> 05:38:40,980
three quarters of them.

2866
05:38:41,880 --> 05:38:44,060
I mean, I would want to take a look at a little more

2867
05:38:44,060 --> 05:38:47,820
more detail before I make a determination as to the number.

2868
05:38:49,340 --> 05:38:50,380
But I think it's worthy.

2869
05:38:50,380 --> 05:38:54,140
of late 20, between 25 to 30, is that what you're saying?

2870
05:38:56,660 --> 05:39:00,540
That's 55 times three quarters of that, so.

2871
05:39:00,540 --> 05:39:01,020
Three quarters.

2872
05:39:02,580 --> 05:39:07,520
But I would, you know, I'd want to look at, in more detail before I make an assessment,

2873
05:39:08,200 --> 05:39:10,820
you know, put a definite number and put my name on it and all that.

2874
05:39:10,920 --> 05:39:15,500
But I, one of my point is I think it's worth looking at that route as an option

2875
05:39:16,040 --> 05:39:18,560
to give an opportunity for more trucks.

2876
05:39:18,560 --> 05:39:24,500
then just using 120 North and do in the 55.

2877
05:39:28,070 --> 05:39:37,250
Thank you. Mr. Davis, a question Mr. Danielson stated that the, I believe it was

2878
05:39:37,250 --> 05:39:43,310
Mr. Danielson stated that the county has no study supporting the 80 truck trips per day.

2879
05:39:43,510 --> 05:39:45,210
Would you agree with that statement?

2880
05:39:45,210 --> 05:39:51,850
The county does not typically, excuse me, the county does not typically prepare a traffic

2881
05:39:51,850 --> 05:39:56,650
study for development that's typically done by the developers consultant. In this case

2882
05:39:56,650 --> 05:40:02,590
here, GCC had Michaels and the roadrunner engineering provided traffic study. We evaluate

2883
05:40:02,590 --> 05:40:11,150
that, we comment on that. That's typically how we approach most development proposals. Other

2884
05:40:11,150 --> 05:40:13,750
than our local knowledge and our review of that report,

2885
05:40:13,990 --> 05:40:16,150
we did not complete a traffic impact study

2886
05:40:16,150 --> 05:40:19,250
independently from the one that the GCC did.

2887
05:40:21,680 --> 05:40:22,700
Thank you.

2888
05:40:22,720 --> 05:40:25,140
And then a question from his white,

2889
05:40:28,590 --> 05:40:30,510
I believe I heard earlier

2890
05:40:30,510 --> 05:40:37,570
that the company, if paving adequately mitigates

2891
05:40:37,570 --> 05:40:41,090
the dust and noise impacts that you do not plan

2892
05:40:41,090 --> 05:40:45,670
who installed the barriers that you have in your report.

2893
05:40:46,590 --> 05:40:49,090
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, again,

2894
05:40:49,090 --> 05:40:52,910
I'm quite a Carolyn White for the record on behalf of the applicant.

2895
05:40:53,030 --> 05:40:54,230
No, that is not the case.

2896
05:40:55,870 --> 05:41:00,530
The condition of approval for the buffers is available, regardless.

2897
05:41:00,730 --> 05:41:06,870
What I said was that our study, the modeling predicts that whether the barriers are installed

2898
05:41:06,870 --> 05:41:10,950
or not, the noise levels will be below the state limits.

2899
05:41:11,730 --> 05:41:16,850
If the private entities along the road elect to have the barriers installed, that will further

2900
05:41:16,850 --> 05:41:21,130
reduce the noise limits, but it's not that if the company pays it that they're not available.

2901
05:41:21,850 --> 05:41:23,330
They're both conditions of approval.

2902
05:41:25,290 --> 05:41:25,910
Thank you.

2903
05:41:25,970 --> 05:41:38,100
And then one final line of questioning for Mr. Danielson regarding air quality you mentioned

2904
05:41:38,100 --> 05:41:45,920
in closing that you wish that you hoped that the commissioners would ask you some questions,

2905
05:41:46,140 --> 05:41:50,480
more questions regarding air quality. Can you discuss?

2906
05:41:51,660 --> 05:41:57,120
I can definitely address the question of why our study is different from their study.

2907
05:41:57,140 --> 05:41:59,080
Okay. Thank you. I will appreciate that.

2908
05:41:59,200 --> 05:42:02,540
Our expert has already done that in what's attachment 52.

2909
05:42:02,540 --> 05:42:03,340
Look,

2910
05:42:05,420 --> 05:42:10,620
none of the differences between the two studies amount to a hill of beans except for

2911
05:42:10,620 --> 05:42:11,200
two.

2912
05:42:11,980 --> 05:42:16,360
Okay, I mean there's a long discussion of something that in the end would mean a difference

2913
05:42:16,360 --> 05:42:18,820
of 0.04%.

2914
05:42:18,820 --> 05:42:20,000
I'm leaving that out.

2915
05:42:20,300 --> 05:42:21,860
There are two issues, right?

2916
05:42:22,340 --> 05:42:30,760
One issue is we know that if you put make chloride and water on a dust road, there's less dust,

2917
05:42:30,760 --> 05:42:42,880
Right? And our expert says based on a bunch of studies that he sites that that reduces the dust by 50%.

2918
05:42:42,880 --> 05:42:49,760
Their expert says it reduces dust by 84%.

2919
05:42:50,760 --> 05:42:58,880
Okay, so if you assume 84% dust controlled by the water in my chloride as opposed to 50% you get a lot of reduction.

2920
05:42:58,880 --> 05:43:13,960
I will say that the Trinity expert, Mr. Masuda, he says that he cites a reference for the 84% figure,

2921
05:43:14,540 --> 05:43:25,920
but the reference refers to control by a product called soil cement, which is a bonding kind of synthetic material that creates kind of a surface on there

2922
05:43:25,920 --> 05:43:31,720
make chloride is certainly a much less effective, but that's where he get the 84 percent.

2923
05:43:31,740 --> 05:43:36,140
That's why we disagree. We don't think soil cement and make chloride or equivalent.

2924
05:43:36,820 --> 05:43:44,060
The second issue is he referenced this what percentage of the material in the road is

2925
05:43:44,060 --> 05:43:55,900
silt. I will say, if you look at our report, we tried to hire Dave Troutner to go out and

2926
05:43:55,900 --> 05:44:07,980
So, our experts as 8.4 percent is silt, fine particles, Mr. Masura says that it's 1.5 percent.

2927
05:44:09,180 --> 05:44:11,680
Here's where we got the 8.4 percent.

2928
05:44:11,900 --> 05:44:19,780
Is when GCC submitted their permit application to the State Air Quality Control Commission

2929
05:44:19,780 --> 05:44:24,920
for the road that's on their site that goes from their point out to the 120.

2930
05:44:24,920 --> 05:44:33,620
what figure did they use in there for the silt content, 8.4 percent. So we use their own figure.

2931
05:44:34,220 --> 05:44:40,380
Now they're telling us they need to reduce their own figure by 80 percent.

2932
05:44:41,080 --> 05:44:44,560
And so that's where the two differences are.

2933
05:44:46,260 --> 05:44:47,060
Thank you.

2934
05:44:49,660 --> 05:44:51,260
There's any questions for now, Mr. Chair?

2935
05:44:52,100 --> 05:44:53,320
Thank you. Questions?

2936
05:44:55,460 --> 05:44:59,980
I would just ask for clarification that every-

2937
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:08,140
Moons opposed to batching, is that true? Okay, that's what I understood, but I wanted to get something

2938
05:45:08,140 --> 05:45:15,840
formal from you guys. And I think that's it for me, thanks.

2939
05:45:18,800 --> 05:45:20,960
I don't have any questions at this time.

2940
05:45:23,540 --> 05:45:26,240
Mr. Chairman, I don't have anything of the neighbors,

2941
05:45:26,460 --> 05:45:31,180
but can I ask a question to staff regarding something that came up during the presentation

2942
05:45:31,180 --> 05:45:43,140
for the neighbors? Yes. And that is the Ms. Matthias made reference to the noise caused by the

2943
05:45:43,140 --> 05:45:48,480
steep grade on that hill, though, where the variance was issued and I was wondering, is it true?

2944
05:45:48,680 --> 05:45:56,460
What have we looked at the sound impacts of that grade? I know it was raised a long time ago,

2945
05:45:56,800 --> 05:45:57,900
so it's not a new issue.

2946
05:46:02,900 --> 05:46:05,200
You know, we're at the planning department. My understanding of the

2947
05:46:05,200 --> 05:46:10,020
of engineering report and I certainly think there's an opportunity for that gentleman to speak

2948
05:46:10,020 --> 05:46:17,680
to the report but the Hill itself was not monitored precisely because there were no residences

2949
05:46:17,680 --> 05:46:23,000
along the Hill so the residences are where the data was collected. The Hill has been modeled

2950
05:46:23,000 --> 05:46:32,200
and there are those results in the latest report so there is that factor that it was not

2951
05:46:32,200 --> 05:46:34,140
specific data collection point.

2952
05:46:34,700 --> 05:46:41,080
And also there was mixed determinations as to whether or not there's value in putting buffering

2953
05:46:41,080 --> 05:46:42,020
along the hill.

2954
05:46:42,540 --> 05:46:46,420
It could, yes, potentially knock down noise, but it could also redirect noise.

2955
05:46:47,200 --> 05:46:51,880
And it's also a concern as to where would that improvement go, typically you make those

2956
05:46:51,880 --> 05:46:53,860
improvements outside the right of way.

2957
05:46:54,460 --> 05:46:57,420
So it just created more questions and answers.

2958
05:46:57,420 --> 05:47:04,440
And that's why there was not a formal recommendation for there to be buffering on the portion of the health.

2959
05:47:09,580 --> 05:47:10,540
Thank you.

2960
05:47:12,600 --> 05:47:13,560
Any further questions?

2961
05:47:17,320 --> 05:47:19,820
Any further comment, Mr. Danielson?

2962
05:47:21,780 --> 05:47:26,080
I had an old morning hanging in the line waiting for his turn.

2963
05:47:26,540 --> 05:47:31,080
Our expert Dr. Carl Mouth, who is going to make a brief statement, he's not available

2964
05:47:31,080 --> 05:47:31,840
the afternoon.

2965
05:47:32,760 --> 05:47:40,840
So, he just sent me his statement, and I'm going to just distribute this for the record.

2966
05:47:41,920 --> 05:47:43,800
Can you speak into the microphone?

2967
05:47:44,020 --> 05:47:44,700
Thank you.

2968
05:47:46,300 --> 05:47:51,520
Mr. Mouth was on the phone or on the streaming all morning and was ready to call in on the

2969
05:47:51,520 --> 05:47:54,900
and he was available all morning, but he just can't do it this afternoon.

2970
05:47:55,600 --> 05:48:00,080
So he wrote a one page statement and I'd just like to submit it.

2971
05:48:00,200 --> 05:48:01,420
Thank you.

2972
05:48:01,560 --> 05:48:02,880
Why do you have any objections?

2973
05:48:04,720 --> 05:48:05,900
We do not have an objection.

2974
05:48:06,780 --> 05:48:07,500
Mr. Smith.

2975
05:48:08,800 --> 05:48:09,400
All right, what was the question?

2976
05:48:09,400 --> 05:48:11,980
The objections to the admission of this statement.

2977
05:48:15,240 --> 05:48:16,240
It would be a testimony.

2978
05:48:17,560 --> 05:48:18,040
Objection.

2979
05:48:18,040 --> 05:48:25,820
Mr. Chair, could Mr. Danielson just summarize the nature of this statement for our listening

2980
05:48:25,820 --> 05:48:29,200
public and those in the audience at Arnkno see our copy?

2981
05:48:30,520 --> 05:48:37,780
It relates to the waste pile at the King Co. one site and the monitoring program for

2982
05:48:37,780 --> 05:48:39,060
that waste pile.

2983
05:48:39,500 --> 05:48:39,520
Okay.

2984
05:48:39,940 --> 05:48:40,840
Thank you.

2985
05:48:41,380 --> 05:48:46,080
I suspect GCC has a rebuttal to make in that event.

2986
05:48:46,080 --> 05:48:48,580
I'd like to retract my statement that we have no objection.

2987
05:48:48,840 --> 05:48:52,260
I would say rather that this falls into the same category as all the evidence introduced

2988
05:48:52,260 --> 05:48:54,180
today related to the King one pile.

2989
05:48:54,660 --> 05:48:59,840
We believe that staff is finding that it's not related to this application is correct.

2990
05:49:00,400 --> 05:49:02,800
Should the Commission find otherwise and you wish to address that issue?

2991
05:49:03,080 --> 05:49:07,040
Then we agree that this and our information as well ought to be included in the record.

2992
05:49:07,400 --> 05:49:10,860
But if you agree with that conclusion, then we would suggest that none of that information

2993
05:49:10,860 --> 05:49:12,140
should be included in the record.

2994
05:49:14,710 --> 05:49:15,230
discussion.

2995
05:49:16,250 --> 05:49:16,770
Yes.

2996
05:49:17,170 --> 05:49:18,610
Let me ask, position is the same.

2997
05:49:19,090 --> 05:49:21,650
Although we prefer the option we're not about is included in the record.

2998
05:49:22,630 --> 05:49:24,350
Can you speak up?

2999
05:49:24,610 --> 05:49:25,130
Yes, I'm sorry.

3000
05:49:25,330 --> 05:49:27,390
This is Adam Smith with the County Attorney's Office.

3001
05:49:27,510 --> 05:49:31,090
We agree with the GCC's Council's assessment of the situation.

3002
05:49:31,930 --> 05:49:36,510
Although we would prefer that none of this information be included in the record.

3003
05:49:36,570 --> 05:49:40,970
It's irrelevant to the land use that is being considered today.

3004
05:49:43,300 --> 05:49:55,820
So, with respect to discussion, I think it's appropriate for this to sit to the side, but I don't believe we'd decide to meet a determination as to the role of how the King won.

3005
05:49:56,180 --> 05:50:06,900
Wait, I mean, we call it King won. How I want to call it the solid waste disposal as it relates to this land use is handled. So, for now, probably set it aside, but have it at the ready.

3006
05:50:06,900 --> 05:50:06,900
Mr.

3007
05:50:17,920 --> 05:50:33,240
Chair, if I may, since Adam Smith with the county attorney's office, first I just wanted to note for the record that we county staff has not received the documents that Mr. Robinson handed out and we would like an opportunity to review those.

3008
05:50:34,580 --> 05:50:38,560
I believe all the copies were handed up there if there was a way to get one that would be helpful.

3009
05:50:39,240 --> 05:50:45,340
And also, although it was not necessarily contemplated, I believe at the end of a staffs of original presentation,

3010
05:50:45,620 --> 05:50:48,860
it was noted that we had 18 minutes and one second remaining on the clock.

3011
05:50:49,720 --> 05:50:53,420
If possible, I would like five minutes of that time to respond to an issue that was raised.

3012
05:51:00,590 --> 05:51:03,770
Wait, before we get off on that, we need to decide what we're going to do with that last exhibit.

3013
05:51:04,110 --> 05:51:06,190
So is it on the side or is it in?

3014
05:51:06,270 --> 05:51:07,350
Set it aside.

3015
05:51:08,490 --> 05:51:12,170
I'm talking about Mr. Blun's testimony.

3016
05:51:14,050 --> 05:51:15,350
It's on the side.

3017
05:51:17,320 --> 05:51:25,320
Well, my question is how it relates to truck trips in this permit and whether, I mean,

3018
05:51:28,270 --> 05:51:30,730
does our council leave its related or not?

3019
05:51:30,730 --> 05:51:32,550
I think she needs a minute to review it.

3020
05:51:53,510 --> 05:51:58,710
It appears as if it deals entirely with the waste issue.

3021
05:52:02,330 --> 05:52:05,490
I would support it being on the site.

3022
05:52:06,430 --> 05:52:09,630
We will place that document on the site for now.

3023
05:52:13,870 --> 05:52:19,390
Adam, could you restate your request for time?

3024
05:52:20,050 --> 05:52:26,670
I believe we had 18 minutes left over at the end of our presentation, although it was not necessarily contemplated.

3025
05:52:26,670 --> 05:52:34,530
that we reserved any of that time with the chair's description we would certainly like to use about five minutes of that to clarify an issue that was raised

3026
05:52:36,650 --> 05:52:37,210
discussion

3027
05:52:37,210 --> 05:52:41,410
I was keeping time with it for 18 minutes

3028
05:52:41,410 --> 05:52:44,670
Well the fire chief use a 10 second

3029
05:52:46,890 --> 05:52:48,690
And the clock's the ticket.

3030
05:52:50,850 --> 05:52:59,610
The other question Mr. Smith raised was the proposed amendments to the RIA and the conditions

3031
05:52:59,610 --> 05:53:02,490
which I think we can put those on the site for right now too.

3032
05:53:02,850 --> 05:53:05,410
We'll see where the discussion leaves us.

3033
05:53:05,790 --> 05:53:05,910
Right.

3034
05:53:06,270 --> 05:53:08,750
We will grant you five minutes.

3035
05:53:09,690 --> 05:53:13,250
Thank you, and this relates back to the question that was asked to Jim Davis earlier.

3036
05:53:14,290 --> 05:53:20,550
But it's important for county staff for us to clarify, which aspects of the code are informing

3037
05:53:20,550 --> 05:53:24,070
different parts of the recommendation, so that's the initial comment.

3038
05:53:25,890 --> 05:53:34,170
It was noted by the neighbors, I will refer to them just for ease of reference that county

3039
05:53:34,170 --> 05:53:39,610
staff's profit option, the 80 trucks at the initial phases doesn't meet the code specifically

3040
05:53:41,210 --> 05:53:46,550
7491, the 7491 would be referencing our road standards.

3041
05:53:48,590 --> 05:53:54,270
I would offer that based on their argument, the way they're analyzing our code, their

3042
05:53:54,270 --> 05:54:00,190
offered solution, the 55 trucks equally doesn't meet the code 7491.

3043
05:54:01,030 --> 05:54:05,630
Instead, county staff's position is that both options technically meet the code.

3044
05:54:05,630 --> 05:54:13,590
The only variables county staff is ever negotiated with GCC is the timing of when the road will come into compliance.

3045
05:54:13,870 --> 05:54:17,990
Not if the road will come into compliance, not what the coast standards are when it comes into compliance.

3046
05:54:19,590 --> 05:54:30,010
Because the only variable we've ever negotiated is the timing, both options 80 and 55 meet chapter 7491 based on our analysis.

3047
05:54:30,730 --> 05:54:38,570
Thereby one informs 80 versus 55 is not 7491, it's compatibility, and I would note that the

3048
05:54:38,570 --> 05:54:44,690
neighbors on traffic engineer rely on compatibility metrics measures to justify the 55.

3049
05:54:45,770 --> 05:54:50,170
That's an important distinction, because that is not being driven by 7491.

3050
05:54:50,430 --> 05:54:53,830
It's being driven by the compatibility standards, which dictates the number of trucks

3051
05:54:53,830 --> 05:54:54,730
without first phase.

3052
05:54:59,460 --> 05:55:01,560
Thank you, questions for staff.

3053
05:55:03,000 --> 05:55:06,060
I don't have any questions for staff.

3054
05:55:08,370 --> 05:55:08,770
No questions.

3055
05:55:10,250 --> 05:55:10,630
Thank you.

3056
05:55:11,430 --> 05:55:17,890
Mr. Chairman, I do have kind of like the, I'd like to have the input again.

3057
05:55:18,390 --> 05:55:26,450
We didn't hear from the chief Fort Lewis Mesa fire district before, but he spoke only about

3058
05:55:26,450 --> 05:55:34,610
his recommendations as a related to the emergency response plan, but since the issue of the

3059
05:55:35,170 --> 05:55:41,490
He does have an opinion as relates to the appropriateness of a loop route, and Mr. Anderson

3060
05:55:41,490 --> 05:55:45,730
are you available to comment on that and may he come forward? Mr. Chairman.

3061
05:55:46,270 --> 05:55:47,070
Yes, please.

3062
05:55:51,500 --> 05:55:54,340
Mr. Anderson, thank you for those of our production district.

3063
05:55:54,900 --> 05:56:00,620
I did submit agency comments that they're included in your packet about concerns about the Southern

3064
05:56:00,620 --> 05:56:07,020
routes, and that there seem to be more traffic challenges on those southern routes in the northern

3065
05:56:07,020 --> 05:56:12,300
route, and I can answer any questions concerning that, if you'd like.

3066
05:56:13,620 --> 05:56:21,460
Yes, I remember I believe that you specifically referred to access in an event of an emergency,

3067
05:56:21,460 --> 05:56:30,560
see their being a challenge or a problem if both routes were closed due to accidents.

3068
05:56:30,840 --> 05:56:33,200
I don't know if you could just elaborate on what that was.

3069
05:56:34,060 --> 05:56:41,760
I don't think I was going to brought up that but it has been discussed throughout the interaction

3070
05:56:41,760 --> 05:56:49,460
between GCC and the community about if there is using a loop route, if we had an accident

3071
05:56:49,460 --> 05:56:59,640
one area that it may cause inaccessibility issues. But, specifically, I really don't see

3072
05:56:59,640 --> 05:57:01,560
it as a major concern.

3073
05:57:02,480 --> 05:57:03,480
Okay, thank you.

3074
05:57:06,180 --> 05:57:06,740
Anything further?

3075
05:57:07,540 --> 05:57:10,020
I have no questions, Commissioner.

3076
05:57:10,600 --> 05:57:11,740
Thank you.

3077
05:57:20,060 --> 05:57:21,780
We are running.

3078
05:57:22,380 --> 05:57:23,060
Well, let's see.

3079
05:57:23,280 --> 05:57:24,180
It's about three o'clock.

3080
05:57:24,420 --> 05:57:27,400
We're scheduled for a break at three, but.

3081
05:57:27,400 --> 05:57:32,000
We do have public comment, do you commissioners,

3082
05:57:32,500 --> 05:57:33,820
rather keep going?

3083
05:57:34,660 --> 05:57:36,760
Okay, we'll move into public comment.

3084
05:57:41,360 --> 05:57:46,300
I have public comment for William Thomas Williamson.

3085
05:57:46,300 --> 05:57:47,860
I spoke to you.

3086
05:57:48,580 --> 05:57:50,100
Thank you.

3087
05:57:55,570 --> 05:57:57,350
Yeah, I have heard.

3088
05:57:57,530 --> 05:57:58,570
I have heard card.

3089
05:57:58,590 --> 05:58:00,250
Did you fill out a piece of...

3090
05:58:13,960 --> 05:58:18,560
You'll probably have to take your comment after these words.

3091
05:58:18,560 --> 05:58:28,280
We received these, so we'll move to, do you have a deadline, or do you

3092
05:58:34,780 --> 05:58:35,260
have, we read

3093
05:58:35,260 --> 05:58:36,160
her comment,

3094
05:58:59,620 --> 05:59:04,360
we will probably go ahead and go in the order that we have, the Pink Slips.

3095
05:59:06,000 --> 05:59:07,100
Matt Watson.

3096
05:59:07,100 --> 05:59:08,020
Donna

3097
05:59:15,020 --> 05:59:15,700
Nizario?

3098
05:59:17,750 --> 05:59:19,950
Matt, come up.

3099
05:59:20,270 --> 05:59:21,090
Randy Lynn Scott.

3100
05:59:22,490 --> 05:59:23,770
And Ann Markord.

3101
05:59:27,440 --> 05:59:27,540
Hi.

3102
05:59:27,660 --> 05:59:28,020
Good afternoon.

3103
05:59:28,160 --> 05:59:29,320
My name is Matt Watson.

3104
05:59:29,800 --> 05:59:30,900
I live at 156.

3105
05:59:30,900 --> 05:59:32,680
Timber Drive, Drango Colorado.

3106
05:59:33,720 --> 05:59:35,480
That's a Drango West one subdivision.

3107
05:59:36,240 --> 05:59:38,780
I am the Human Resources Coordinator for GCC Energy.

3108
05:59:39,500 --> 05:59:42,340
I've been with the company for five years this December.

3109
05:59:42,960 --> 05:59:46,500
Before I talk a little bit about GCC, I'd like to share my personal story.

3110
05:59:46,500 --> 05:59:48,560
and I would as an impact as a plot of county.

3111
05:59:49,400 --> 05:59:50,900
I worked in the building to turn it on industry.

3112
05:59:51,780 --> 05:59:55,260
In just few, nearly 20 years and was there when the housing bubble burst and Phoenix.

3113
05:59:56,100 --> 05:59:59,980
So, you know, I know firsthand how employees and families are affected with business flows and companies.

3114
06:00:00,000 --> 06:00:05,020
These are forced to close their doors. Personally, I lost it's about everything that I'm moving to

3115
06:00:05,020 --> 06:00:13,140
Durango, work temporarily for my brother's construction company. I was fortunate to get the GCC and I think it's a great company.

3116
06:00:13,220 --> 06:00:27,020
I think probably 100 people apply for this position. I rented rooms for a couple years to share around Durango, saved up money, sold my house in Phoenix, bought a small lot in Durango, west one, hired a contractor, had a house bill.

3117
06:00:27,020 --> 06:00:29,840
Well, now my 19-year-old daughter lives with me.

3118
06:00:29,860 --> 06:00:32,120
She goes to Southwest Community College.

3119
06:00:32,980 --> 06:00:34,920
She works part-time at bed, bath, and beyond.

3120
06:00:36,340 --> 06:00:40,980
So you can see just on my own, like what an impact, a good job can have on the local economy.

3121
06:00:42,040 --> 06:00:43,980
Just a little bit on GCC and its employees.

3122
06:00:44,640 --> 06:00:48,400
I have a degree in business and I've worked for several large, reputable companies in my career.

3123
06:00:48,980 --> 06:00:52,800
I can tell you without a doubt, GCC is the best company if I've been had the opportunity

3124
06:00:52,800 --> 06:00:56,020
to work for company truly cares about their employees.

3125
06:00:56,020 --> 06:00:59,700
the environment and the communities in which we operate.

3126
06:01:01,120 --> 06:01:04,520
As of today, we have 115 employees working at the mine.

3127
06:01:04,920 --> 06:01:08,780
In addition to that, approximately 200 truckers and countless other vendors

3128
06:01:08,780 --> 06:01:10,980
business suppliers that support our operation.

3129
06:01:11,820 --> 06:01:14,420
In fact, during the families of those involved in the mine,

3130
06:01:14,460 --> 06:01:17,720
and I'm sure in excess of 1,000 people would be affected

3131
06:01:17,720 --> 06:01:20,220
should our ability to operate be compromised.

3132
06:01:21,260 --> 06:01:24,080
Our average rate of pay for our salary to end hourly employees

3133
06:01:24,080 --> 06:01:26,620
combined is 31,69 an hour.

3134
06:01:26,900 --> 06:01:29,100
In addition to that, our employees have competitive,

3135
06:01:29,580 --> 06:01:30,900
full benefit package.

3136
06:01:31,700 --> 06:01:33,720
These are all really good jobs that are,

3137
06:01:33,740 --> 06:01:34,720
you know, bail to our economy.

3138
06:01:36,000 --> 06:01:37,240
I know all our guys personally,

3139
06:01:37,440 --> 06:01:38,420
and through benefit and enrollment,

3140
06:01:38,560 --> 06:01:39,520
and questions from spouses,

3141
06:01:39,640 --> 06:01:40,980
I know a lot of their family members

3142
06:01:40,980 --> 06:01:42,960
and have met their kids.

3143
06:01:43,340 --> 06:01:46,560
They have a great group of hardworking men and women.

3144
06:01:47,020 --> 06:01:48,520
The work for GCC is support

3145
06:01:48,520 --> 06:01:49,600
the surrounding communities.

3146
06:01:51,260 --> 06:01:52,600
You know, we even had an example

3147
06:01:52,600 --> 06:01:56,400
where we did the degree to what we care about the neighbors and safety, we had two employees

3148
06:01:56,400 --> 06:02:01,140
that we actually had to terminate because they were speeding on the road and we warned them,

3149
06:02:01,200 --> 06:02:04,180
they didn't heed the warnings, we actually terminated their employment just for that.

3150
06:02:04,900 --> 06:02:06,560
They were good employees other than that.

3151
06:02:07,820 --> 06:02:11,840
So personally, I'm very proud to work for GCCC, as I know all my co-workers are as well.

3152
06:02:11,940 --> 06:02:16,760
I hope the plot of County is proud as well to have a world-class company like GCCC in its community.

3153
06:02:17,860 --> 06:02:19,120
Thank you for your time and consideration.

3154
06:02:19,120 --> 06:02:25,300
Thank you. Randy. Randy Lenscott.

3155
06:02:29,320 --> 06:02:35,840
Randy Lenscott lives on County Road 120-22 years. I am

3156
06:02:35,840 --> 06:02:41,940
located where both the 90 turns are on South 120 intersection.

3157
06:02:43,980 --> 06:02:45,580
In the wintertime, many

3158
06:02:45,580 --> 06:02:52,340
cars go off and go off the turn on slick pavement and go into ditch and knock down

3159
06:02:52,340 --> 06:03:05,580
This year, I myself was aware of two such occurrences on the front of my house, but I'm sure I'm sure there were probably more.

3160
06:03:09,150 --> 06:03:09,930
One twenty south.

3161
06:03:11,330 --> 06:03:12,410
And Mark Clark,

3162
06:03:15,180 --> 06:03:15,180
and

3163
06:03:19,500 --> 06:03:26,700
hers says parallels with this case and others negligent county planning decisions.

3164
06:03:28,870 --> 06:03:31,830
John Lee, he could come up.

3165
06:03:32,790 --> 06:03:39,230
Dan Huntington, you're on deck, and Derek Schneider as well.

3166
06:03:40,250 --> 06:03:40,370
John?

3167
06:03:41,350 --> 06:03:45,010
I, John Lee, 1-1-4-4-2,

3168
06:03:45,050 --> 06:03:47,310
Kenny Road, 1-20, Pespers, Colorado,

3169
06:03:48,170 --> 06:03:50,110
owner, operator, Silver River Ranch.

3170
06:03:50,470 --> 06:03:51,550
I make my living there.

3171
06:03:51,830 --> 06:03:52,710
Raise my children there.

3172
06:03:52,710 --> 06:03:58,510
I have a working area of that kind of road 120 that

3173
06:03:58,510 --> 06:04:04,450
fronts for about a half mile and you know the traffic item you know

3174
06:04:04,450 --> 06:04:08,030
it's very compelling to hear all of this this morning and into this afternoon

3175
06:04:08,030 --> 06:04:14,230
and I don't understand the ideas of sending it somewhere else and that's

3176
06:04:14,230 --> 06:04:19,570
going to solve the problem so as it keeps being made note of run it a loop

3177
06:04:19,570 --> 06:04:21,370
on it further, run it somewhere else.

3178
06:04:21,370 --> 06:04:22,810
Let's increase exposure.

3179
06:04:23,930 --> 06:04:27,630
If the statements are true about silt, noise, health,

3180
06:04:28,330 --> 06:04:31,190
that it's affecting somebody's way of life,

3181
06:04:32,030 --> 06:04:34,690
property value, safety, and traffic,

3182
06:04:36,930 --> 06:04:38,910
then we should just spread that around to everyone.

3183
06:04:39,150 --> 06:04:42,090
And affect even more roads and more ways of life

3184
06:04:42,090 --> 06:04:44,930
that haven't had to deal with that in the past.

3185
06:04:45,470 --> 06:04:49,190
That didn't buy anywhere near that location.

3186
06:04:49,190 --> 06:04:56,210
20 years ago, when I went to look at the purchase, I looked on one 20 north in the Cougar

3187
06:04:56,210 --> 06:05:02,450
area and didn't buy, in part because of traffic and mines and things like that and other

3188
06:05:02,450 --> 06:05:03,030
opportunities.

3189
06:05:04,470 --> 06:05:12,310
But now to say, well, we need to share this pain with other people because the pain has gotten

3190
06:05:12,310 --> 06:05:17,070
to great and then cite all of these problems and say what we like to do is pass these problems

3191
06:05:17,070 --> 06:05:21,630
on to other people. I think it's very misplaced. Thank you.

3192
06:05:21,850 --> 06:05:22,310
Thank you.

3193
06:05:24,710 --> 06:05:24,950
Dan.

3194
06:05:35,270 --> 06:05:44,470
And Huntington, 78, county road 120, quarter mile, 5,000 feet south of the entrance

3195
06:05:44,470 --> 06:05:47,070
to King II.

3196
06:05:48,190 --> 06:05:54,730
I have no problems with the mind. Being that close, I very rarely hear any

3197
06:05:54,730 --> 06:05:59,670
truck traffic, except in the early morning when the air is still.

3198
06:06:00,130 --> 06:06:10,190
But anyway, fourth generation resident, a grandparents, bought and put together 2,500 acres

3199
06:06:10,190 --> 06:06:10,850
there.

3200
06:06:11,370 --> 06:06:24,980
We did have up to 4,000 acres, and when the government raised the interest rates, they

3201
06:06:24,980 --> 06:06:32,500
to maintain our homeplaces and, I guess, it's our fault that these people are here, complain

3202
06:06:32,500 --> 06:06:36,700
and about the truck traffic, because that was all our property at one time.

3203
06:06:38,960 --> 06:06:43,260
But anyway, they talked about changing the character.

3204
06:06:43,640 --> 06:06:48,020
They moved in here, changed the character of Hague Oates, there wasn't a residence up there.

3205
06:06:49,220 --> 06:06:54,440
besides the accused down there in the bottom and a couple of residents up on the North

3206
06:06:54,440 --> 06:06:55,360
End.

3207
06:06:58,720 --> 06:07:05,720
Another thing I just want to comment on the length of time that it's taken to do to get

3208
06:07:05,720 --> 06:07:14,420
this process going every time to get something agreed upon something else comes up.

3209
06:07:14,420 --> 06:07:20,600
I've just been a snowball and I appreciate coming to a conclusion.

3210
06:07:23,560 --> 06:07:25,000
Truck traffic to the south.

3211
06:07:25,420 --> 06:07:28,560
Truck traffic to the south was never willy-nilly.

3212
06:07:29,760 --> 06:07:35,660
The only time they run that traffic to the south was in income, weather, or somebody lived

3213
06:07:35,660 --> 06:07:38,440
down on the south's south end.

3214
06:07:39,460 --> 06:07:49,040
Accidents on the South and there's been numerous, numerous trucks rollovers on the 90-degree

3215
06:07:49,040 --> 06:07:49,420
corners.

3216
06:07:49,600 --> 06:07:51,660
There's one corner down by 117.

3217
06:07:52,360 --> 06:07:57,780
There's been five cars off of that corner this winter, often the ditch.

3218
06:08:00,700 --> 06:08:04,240
And I want to state that I'm not represented by the Southwest advocates.

3219
06:08:05,780 --> 06:08:06,200
Thank you.

3220
06:08:06,300 --> 06:08:06,720
Thank you.

3221
06:08:06,720 --> 06:08:09,180
Thank you.

3222
06:08:09,600 --> 06:08:10,840
Derek Schneider.

3223
06:08:12,600 --> 06:08:13,960
Derek Schneider.

3224
06:08:16,050 --> 06:08:21,250
Derek Schneider says I live on county 1-20 North and run that road every day.

3225
06:08:21,750 --> 06:08:27,410
The change star community since 2010 when King II ramped up has been tremendous.

3226
06:08:28,010 --> 06:08:30,890
The road is devoid of human traffic.

3227
06:08:31,450 --> 06:08:36,790
When trucks were running at 50 plus a day, we hardly noticed.

3228
06:08:36,790 --> 06:08:43,130
Please constrain traffic to that level during the construction period.

3229
06:08:46,000 --> 06:08:46,160
Donna,

3230
06:08:48,460 --> 06:08:50,140
your number 10.

3231
06:08:52,040 --> 06:08:54,480
Jack, Luellen, you're up on deck.

3232
06:08:57,810 --> 06:08:59,190
Thank you for letting me speak.

3233
06:08:59,410 --> 06:09:00,230
I'm Donna Nizario.

3234
06:09:00,450 --> 06:09:03,230
I live at 689 Cougar Way, has first.

3235
06:09:04,370 --> 06:09:06,470
And I'm going to speak on a couple things.

3236
06:09:06,750 --> 06:09:11,510
Maylam to speak for Denise Baca, who is a real estate agent for your

3237
06:09:12,530 --> 06:09:28,210
and has compiled in request of the neighbors, we, she compiled a report for everyone talking about real estate sales and how it compares to the seller real estate in our area that is impacted by the mind.

3238
06:09:29,150 --> 06:09:32,790
So on the first page, and I'm going to run through this as quick as I can bear with me.

3239
06:09:33,010 --> 06:09:33,390
It's a lot of time.

3240
06:09:33,390 --> 06:09:37,090
I'm just to give you the heads up public comment is limited to three minutes.

3241
06:09:37,490 --> 06:09:44,630
So, right now the average price price of a property is between 384 and 415.

3242
06:09:44,690 --> 06:09:47,310
This is for residential rule, okay?

3243
06:09:47,890 --> 06:09:52,250
And this is all dates from January 2015.

3244
06:09:53,190 --> 06:09:57,670
Right now, days on the market is 1.64 between 1.15 and 1.64.

3245
06:09:57,870 --> 06:09:59,610
It's getting a little faster now.

3246
06:09:59,870 --> 06:10:02,410
The property cells are moving faster.

3247
06:10:03,570 --> 06:10:07,350
And so moving along since it only a much time, we're going to jump right into the

3248
06:10:07,350 --> 06:10:17,830
that January 2015 active listings you'll see are five right now only two of sold in the last year and

3249
06:10:17,830 --> 06:10:25,170
half out in this area. We're talking you know 120 and we'll go through the subdivisions. You will see

3250
06:10:25,170 --> 06:10:31,430
down further there's a lot of expired properties that did not sell and there's a lot of withdrawn

3251
06:10:31,430 --> 06:10:32,270
properties.

3252
06:10:34,570 --> 06:10:39,910
You know, one of the things that Denise said, she was showing property out there

3253
06:10:39,910 --> 06:10:44,910
and several people comment on, well, we really, we really don't even look at that area

3254
06:10:44,910 --> 06:10:49,690
because of what we've seen in this paper and the articles about the impact in that area.

3255
06:10:50,150 --> 06:11:00,130
So I'm speaking as a homeowner also, but the bottom line is, some of us are lifetime investment

3256
06:11:00,130 --> 06:11:04,190
is in our homes and our homes are dramatically dropped.

3257
06:11:04,990 --> 06:11:14,070
I recently sold my home on Cooper, Mesa, if you skip to the letter, you'll see the reports

3258
06:11:14,070 --> 06:11:19,690
here on the sales price and I'm a little stressed because I'm not having enough time.

3259
06:11:20,330 --> 06:11:27,510
Wells Fargo, I went through the process of selling because it could not sell, so I went

3260
06:11:27,510 --> 06:11:28,270
to foreclosure.

3261
06:11:30,230 --> 06:11:32,790
And Wells Fargo did a study also on my home.

3262
06:11:32,850 --> 06:11:34,090
The value was at 410.

3263
06:11:34,470 --> 06:11:37,090
They needed to net 383 for this to sell.

3264
06:11:37,190 --> 06:11:39,350
Only got 268 for my house.

3265
06:11:39,890 --> 06:11:41,310
It's a big loss for me.

3266
06:11:41,690 --> 06:11:44,270
And I know it's the same thing for a lot of folks

3267
06:11:44,270 --> 06:11:45,030
out in that area.

3268
06:11:45,330 --> 06:11:46,650
It's a big deal.

3269
06:11:46,850 --> 06:11:48,730
And this issue is fallen through the cracks.

3270
06:11:49,390 --> 06:11:50,930
And it really needs to be addressed,

3271
06:11:50,990 --> 06:11:54,210
because it is impacting more than just noise,

3272
06:11:54,210 --> 06:12:01,450
health, beauty, wildlife, and you will actually see my closing dock in there because I really

3273
06:12:01,450 --> 06:12:06,590
want to get clear that this is a real deal. This really happened and you'll see all the other

3274
06:12:06,590 --> 06:12:12,410
properties in that area that are set on the market for years way longer than a lot of time

3275
06:12:12,410 --> 06:12:19,110
of 150 days. So it's a big deal. It's a big deal to us as neighbors and it's something that's

3276
06:12:19,110 --> 06:12:22,870
along through the cracks that I think should be on the top of the list.

3277
06:12:23,510 --> 06:12:23,830
Thank you, Scott.

3278
06:12:23,970 --> 06:12:30,550
Ms. Nizario, if I may ask you a couple of questions, first of all, I appreciate all

3279
06:12:30,550 --> 06:12:33,370
of the material that has been put together.

3280
06:12:33,590 --> 06:12:44,590
Can you just talk a little bit more about, did the re-letcher actually, without having to go

3281
06:12:44,590 --> 06:12:48,550
through every page here, actually go through and compare,

3282
06:12:48,550 --> 06:12:59,850
housing prices in Durango versus housing prices in Hacolch, and we saw large property

3283
06:12:59,850 --> 06:13:05,170
increases within the city limits of Durango two years ago when the assessor did the

3284
06:13:05,170 --> 06:13:12,990
last assessment. Did we see similar increases in Hacolch or did it decline in why it

3285
06:13:12,990 --> 06:13:15,230
That's more of an analysis there.

3286
06:13:15,730 --> 06:13:16,270
Excuse me.

3287
06:13:16,670 --> 06:13:19,070
Yes, it absolutely, absolutely declined.

3288
06:13:19,310 --> 06:13:25,110
As you will see in some of these, some of these numbers here

3289
06:13:25,110 --> 06:13:29,170
and I apologize because the numbers that you are going to have a hard

3290
06:13:29,170 --> 06:13:31,990
time reading the prices on those are the numbers in red and in

3291
06:13:31,990 --> 06:13:34,470
yours are in black and white and I apologize for that.

3292
06:13:34,670 --> 06:13:37,870
But that shows that these properties sold for a negative.

3293
06:13:37,930 --> 06:13:40,190
They sold for less than what their value was.

3294
06:13:40,190 --> 06:13:43,770
And most of these properties, that is the case.

3295
06:13:45,230 --> 06:13:48,710
We mainly targeted hidden ridge, Cougar Mesa,

3296
06:13:51,910 --> 06:13:52,970
and Vista de Ora.

3297
06:13:53,750 --> 06:13:55,930
And all those properties are either expired.

3298
06:13:56,070 --> 06:13:58,190
There's only two that have sold, I believe,

3299
06:13:58,690 --> 06:14:00,790
and they sold below market value.

3300
06:14:02,130 --> 06:14:05,970
And so it's really showing a trend that everything out in that area

3301
06:14:05,970 --> 06:14:08,690
is not selling, and it's sitting on the market

3302
06:14:08,690 --> 06:14:14,170
for over three years, some of them, and it's just, you know, it's really, you know, too bad

3303
06:14:14,170 --> 06:14:19,790
of the scenario. And so, yes, answer to your question, when everything else is going

3304
06:14:19,790 --> 06:14:26,730
up and value, you know, in our area it's going dramatically down. And so, you know, it's a real

3305
06:14:26,730 --> 06:14:32,690
problem. And I think it's, you know, a main impact is because people do see, and it's in

3306
06:14:32,690 --> 06:14:38,170
the newspaper a lot, and people are getting educated now, what's really going on. And, you

3307
06:14:38,170 --> 06:14:43,390
or residents are taking notice, ones that want to move out in the country, they're seeing

3308
06:14:43,390 --> 06:14:46,690
that, you know, yeah, let's look at property out in the rule, but not in that area.

3309
06:14:47,370 --> 06:14:53,330
So, you know, it hurts when you want it, it really hurt me, you know, when I had to drop over

3310
06:14:53,330 --> 06:14:55,130
$100,000 to get my household.

3311
06:14:56,630 --> 06:14:59,970
Mr. Chair, if I made it, is the assessor stated.

3312
06:15:00,000 --> 06:15:09,200
Specifically, why he has seen a decline in value from, you know, I don't, from other areas in the county.

3313
06:15:10,120 --> 06:15:16,740
I don't know if the assessor wants to take a stand on, you know, it's GCC and it's what's going on.

3314
06:15:17,740 --> 06:15:26,480
But, you know, it makes you wonder when you do the numbers, and these are all, these year to date comparisons, or all real, they're from the assessor's office.

3315
06:15:26,480 --> 06:15:31,520
and they're compiled by the Welles Group actually and they do this every year.

3316
06:15:31,760 --> 06:15:34,600
Excuse me, I don't think we're looking at came from the assessors office.

3317
06:15:34,800 --> 06:15:38,200
It came from the real estate association.

3318
06:15:38,600 --> 06:15:40,560
I know the assessors are pulled in numbers.

3319
06:15:42,740 --> 06:15:45,740
Well, they're based, they're actually not based on the assessors office.

3320
06:15:45,900 --> 06:15:48,280
They're based on what real estate brokers report.

3321
06:15:49,580 --> 06:15:51,660
So the assessor based on this information.

3322
06:15:52,180 --> 06:15:54,300
I'm really not my experience as a real estate broker.

3323
06:15:54,300 --> 06:16:02,560
That this is, I don't see anything in here except the things that say property taxes and so on that reflects

3324
06:16:03,140 --> 06:16:05,220
Anything prepared by this session's office.

3325
06:16:06,140 --> 06:16:10,380
I guess what I meant was, is the souls do come up in public record.

3326
06:16:11,020 --> 06:16:16,300
So, you know, that's really where it's pulled off is from the souls and the mouths that they actually close for.

3327
06:16:17,880 --> 06:16:18,460
Thank you very much.

3328
06:16:18,960 --> 06:16:19,340
Thank you.

3329
06:16:19,600 --> 06:16:20,500
Thanks for your time.

3330
06:16:20,500 --> 06:16:24,580
Jack Cluellen, Roger, you're on deck.

3331
06:16:29,510 --> 06:16:38,510
Jack Cluellen, 479 Ways Monroe, Durango, Colorado, 81303, on the Executive Director of the Chamber of Commerce and we have 825 members.

3332
06:16:39,610 --> 06:16:46,150
We talked about earlier, we heard about quality of life and economic development terms, a lot of times they talk about the quality of jobs.

3333
06:16:46,150 --> 06:16:50,750
Because without jobs, you don't have the community, and the community cannot thrive.

3334
06:16:51,370 --> 06:17:02,070
There are 120 jobs that we've heard about from GCC Energy, all of which have about a $90,000 annual income with benefits.

3335
06:17:02,490 --> 06:17:05,050
They're higher than the average here in the Plot of County.

3336
06:17:05,770 --> 06:17:07,290
Also, it has been talked about.

3337
06:17:07,290 --> 06:17:13,590
There's 1,500 families all over the region that heat their homes from GCCC coal that they get from the coal mine.

3338
06:17:13,590 --> 06:17:19,550
There's nothing in the code to protect these families, conditions that are being proposed

3339
06:17:19,550 --> 06:17:24,170
today could possibly, I say, possibly shut down the mind, it's about the economics.

3340
06:17:25,010 --> 06:17:29,570
We've heard that since 2010 the process has been taking place demonstrating due diligence

3341
06:17:29,570 --> 06:17:30,490
to me.

3342
06:17:30,770 --> 06:17:37,070
Staff has worked diligently with the neighbors, DCC energies of selves, and others, there are

3343
06:17:37,070 --> 06:17:42,630
four different stages of change, denial, resistance, exploration, and commitment.

3344
06:17:42,630 --> 06:17:46,950
I recommend you commit to the recommendation to approve this.

3345
06:17:47,070 --> 06:17:50,690
Business and the predictability in order to continue to operate.

3346
06:17:51,110 --> 06:17:58,990
This approval will hold GCC accountable to their commitments and allow them to properly prepare for their own future and the future of their employees.

3347
06:17:59,910 --> 06:18:01,090
Thank you.

3348
06:18:01,390 --> 06:18:02,030
Thank you.

3349
06:18:04,440 --> 06:18:04,760
Roger.

3350
06:18:09,510 --> 06:18:16,210
The machine is good afternoon and I'm right here on artists, I'm the director of the Economic Development Alliance, I live at 420 when to Lake Trail during Colorado.

3351
06:18:16,830 --> 06:18:24,210
So I want to make a couple of comments today. First of all, I want to thank the staff and GCC for all the time they've put into this project.

3352
06:18:24,290 --> 06:18:30,350
I've heard from both of them because I try to work a middle man ground in my job and I know it's been times it's been really frustrating for both sides.

3353
06:18:30,350 --> 06:18:36,670
I've heard from both of them about that and I know it's been times when it's been really good for both sides and I've heard from them when that's happened as well.

3354
06:18:36,670 --> 06:18:41,430
So this has been a very hard process for everybody involved in the fact that we've gotten to an agreement.

3355
06:18:41,770 --> 06:18:45,470
Like we have, is a testimony to both sides commitment to our community.

3356
06:18:45,790 --> 06:18:48,570
So thank you all for your efforts and what you've done.

3357
06:18:49,150 --> 06:18:52,610
Now, I also wanted to thank GCC for investing in the Plotic County.

3358
06:18:53,210 --> 06:18:56,410
Since they bought that mine, they've put tens of millions of dollars in to our community.

3359
06:18:56,490 --> 06:19:00,130
They've hired over 50 or 60 different people just at the mine alone,

3360
06:19:00,170 --> 06:19:01,910
plus the contracting work they've done here.

3361
06:19:02,230 --> 06:19:05,970
That's a significant investment, and that is not something we have any entitlement to

3362
06:19:05,970 --> 06:19:10,930
as a local area. That is something that comes about from a company's profits, companies, desires,

3363
06:19:11,190 --> 06:19:15,670
and strategies, and communities willingness to accept that investment from a company.

3364
06:19:16,450 --> 06:19:21,250
So thank you all for what you've done for our community as well. I'm a data geek, and there's

3365
06:19:21,250 --> 06:19:27,590
something I want to get on the public record, which is regarding GCC's financials. GCC is a company

3366
06:19:27,590 --> 06:19:31,530
here in the United States that's owned by the Mexican company. That's been pointed out repeatedly

3367
06:19:31,530 --> 06:19:35,550
in testimony in the paper and elsewhere that there are Mexican company.

3368
06:19:36,190 --> 06:19:41,530
Mexican companies report their earnings and their valuation in pesos, not in dollars, and

3369
06:19:41,530 --> 06:19:42,810
it's called the Peso and not the dollar.

3370
06:19:43,010 --> 06:19:48,950
So we don't have a $15 billion value company here, we have a $15 billion peso company.

3371
06:19:49,370 --> 06:19:52,830
We don't have a billion dollars of profits, we have a billion pesos of profits.

3372
06:19:53,510 --> 06:19:59,430
At the conversion rate, it's the US dollar, that's about $800 million of valuation, that

3373
06:19:59,430 --> 06:20:04,590
There's one half the size of mercury when it was bought two years ago by Vantiff, and by

3374
06:20:04,590 --> 06:20:08,910
the way Mercury had a neighbor that said, we want you to be here, we just don't want the traffic.

3375
06:20:09,810 --> 06:20:13,070
So we had the same situation with mercury two, three years ago when they were trying to expand

3376
06:20:13,070 --> 06:20:13,830
as well.

3377
06:20:14,730 --> 06:20:15,910
But why does that matter?

3378
06:20:16,210 --> 06:20:19,170
Even though economics is not addressed in the code, it is fundamental.

3379
06:20:20,410 --> 06:20:23,190
And we can all say we don't want the mind to close, because none of us do.

3380
06:20:23,610 --> 06:20:27,690
But you can impose conditions that make it impossible for the mind or any other business

3381
06:20:27,690 --> 06:20:28,290
to operate.

3382
06:20:28,290 --> 06:20:34,370
And one thing I haven't heard is what are those conditions in which the mind can operate and what are the conditions that they cannot.

3383
06:20:35,050 --> 06:20:39,350
And the simple fact is that they can't operate with 55 trucks a day, the mind closes.

3384
06:20:40,150 --> 06:20:46,630
120 people lose their jobs, 1500 people lose their heating, and 400,000 dollars of taxes go out the window.

3385
06:20:47,310 --> 06:20:53,770
We shouldn't be trying to race to the bottom to figure out where that threshold is, but there is a threshold at which point a business will no longer operate.

3386
06:20:53,770 --> 06:20:56,850
And that is important when you're considering whether grant a permit or not,

3387
06:20:56,970 --> 06:21:00,030
so whether you're going to have a business or not to grant a permit to.

3388
06:21:00,470 --> 06:21:01,930
So thank you.

3389
06:21:02,010 --> 06:21:02,830
Thank you.

3390
06:21:05,720 --> 06:21:07,000
Guy Stees.

3391
06:21:18,500 --> 06:21:19,600
My name is Guy Stees.

3392
06:21:19,640 --> 06:21:22,840
I live on County Road 120 South.

3393
06:21:25,440 --> 06:21:31,540
And I really want to thank Popeye County Planning staff for all the work they have done on this.

3394
06:21:31,600 --> 06:21:32,620
They work for all hard.

3395
06:21:32,620 --> 06:21:42,500
I was on the original Hague Alt Citizens Committee, so I had to deal with this for quite a while.

3396
06:21:43,120 --> 06:21:52,460
And GCC worked hard to alleviate a lot of the problems that the north side was coming up with.

3397
06:21:54,780 --> 06:22:19,820
I do represent a lot of the people in the south end of the road there, and some of the things that I want to bring up, there's three times as many people there, there's five county road intersections that if they go south, a lot of those county intersections are blind, really hard to see on.

3398
06:22:21,020 --> 06:22:27,560
And there's almost twice as many drivers that he'd go when 19 or when 20.

3399
06:22:28,520 --> 06:22:31,480
Many of those houses are really close to them.

3400
06:22:32,520 --> 06:22:35,760
He's the one of those roads, so there'd be a lot more people

3401
06:22:35,760 --> 06:22:39,460
that would be complaining about the noise because they're right on the road.

3402
06:22:42,300 --> 06:22:48,020
And both 19 and 19 and 20 South are a bus route for schools.

3403
06:22:49,180 --> 06:22:53,120
So that is a big thing to think about.

3404
06:22:54,100 --> 06:23:02,160
And during one of the Hague Alt Citizens meetings, we had both the county and the C-dot

3405
06:23:02,160 --> 06:23:03,820
come and talk to us.

3406
06:23:03,820 --> 06:23:10,140
At that time, CDOT said they would only fix, or there would only be one intersection that was fixed.

3407
06:23:11,440 --> 06:23:19,780
So, that kind of makes it where there wouldn't be two intersections they couldn't afford it.

3408
06:23:19,940 --> 06:23:21,280
Thank you.

3409
06:23:21,620 --> 06:23:22,360
Thank you.

3410
06:23:23,720 --> 06:23:27,340
Is there anyone else that would wish to make public comment today?

3411
06:23:30,900 --> 06:23:33,920
Six o'clock this evening, we will have another public comment.

3412
06:23:33,920 --> 06:23:37,940
If you'd like to wait till then, you're more than welcome or you can do it today.

3413
06:23:45,260 --> 06:23:49,400
My name is Connor McQ, 25, 41 county road, 120.

3414
06:23:50,680 --> 06:23:53,420
So first I'd like to thank you guys and staff,

3415
06:23:53,900 --> 06:23:56,700
of GCC for being here.

3416
06:23:58,020 --> 06:24:01,060
I also want them to thank them for disrupting our community

3417
06:24:01,780 --> 06:24:05,600
and disturbing another lovely day, because I'm sure we would have nothing else to do.

3418
06:24:06,360 --> 06:24:09,120
But it's pretty amazing how they've managed to warm themselves

3419
06:24:09,120 --> 06:24:16,140
and just access through the layers and layers of legal BS that this whole process is entailed.

3420
06:24:17,380 --> 06:24:22,760
They want to be commended for apparently offering up all these millions of dollars to improve the road

3421
06:24:22,760 --> 06:24:25,540
for them to solely operate on.

3422
06:24:26,000 --> 06:24:28,920
And it kind of seems like it'd be if they would buy a big building.

3423
06:24:29,500 --> 06:24:34,120
These are the renovations they have to do to be able to basically run their business.

3424
06:24:34,120 --> 06:24:40,460
So, the fact that they're doing their job is kind of a slap to the face for all the ways

3425
06:24:40,460 --> 06:24:42,880
it's going to improve our lives, so to speak.

3426
06:24:45,820 --> 06:24:50,200
So that's kind of another thing that I'd like to commend them on is just how they're able

3427
06:24:50,200 --> 06:24:52,460
to run on an outdated permit.

3428
06:24:53,260 --> 06:24:58,300
I know if I was trying to grow copious amounts of marijuana and I started a little bit before

3429
06:24:58,300 --> 06:25:03,080
I started the paperwork and got the proper permits in, I would probably be in jail.

3430
06:25:03,740 --> 06:25:07,560
I wouldn't be able to say why I didn't understand the questions or I'm sorry I didn't

3431
06:25:07,560 --> 06:25:09,740
turn my paperwork in time.

3432
06:25:10,280 --> 06:25:13,260
I wouldn't be able to drag my feet on this.

3433
06:25:13,880 --> 06:25:20,480
So I guess I just basically want to commend them for showing a young student how to operate

3434
06:25:20,480 --> 06:25:22,700
businesses and how to succeed.

3435
06:25:23,820 --> 06:25:27,860
And it's a really interesting, eye-opening experience and I would like to thank them again.

3436
06:25:28,740 --> 06:25:30,620
So all of you guys have a good day.

3437
06:25:33,020 --> 06:25:36,180
Can you feel a lot of pink slip for Jeanne over there?

3438
06:25:37,060 --> 06:25:37,180
Thanks.

3439
06:25:40,400 --> 06:25:41,400
Come on up.

3440
06:25:52,290 --> 06:25:54,430
After noon, I have a pair of speech.

3441
06:25:54,990 --> 06:25:57,950
I didn't come with a high-priced lawyer.

3442
06:25:58,170 --> 06:25:59,230
My name is Mike Crawford.

3443
06:25:59,410 --> 06:26:02,590
I live at the Bond County Road 121,

3444
06:26:03,430 --> 06:26:04,670
which I've lived there.

3445
06:26:04,850 --> 06:26:06,470
My entire life, fortune, race,

3446
06:26:06,610 --> 06:26:09,910
and ratcher for over 125 years on that piece of property.

3447
06:26:11,330 --> 06:26:14,490
The mind has mind under our property before.

3448
06:26:16,010 --> 06:26:21,130
We did not own the royalties, so we didn't receive a penny out of it.

3449
06:26:21,690 --> 06:26:27,890
We will have them access to cordial, subsides, cracks, different things.

3450
06:26:28,450 --> 06:26:30,110
They have been great to work with.

3451
06:26:30,510 --> 06:26:31,350
Absolutely great.

3452
06:26:32,470 --> 06:26:36,550
After 11 in this community, my entire life, my family, my entire life,

3453
06:26:36,550 --> 06:26:41,270
My great-grandfather is how Hague Galtz got his name, what's named after?

3454
06:26:45,340 --> 06:26:45,780
I don't know.

3455
06:26:45,920 --> 06:26:49,960
I hate to see people come in here, move in here, be here two years.

3456
06:26:50,320 --> 06:26:53,920
I bring in a high-priced lawyer, gather up handful of people,

3457
06:26:54,220 --> 06:26:55,780
and start changing our way alive.

3458
06:26:56,720 --> 06:27:01,980
I am greatly inspired the mind, what they've done for our community,

3459
06:27:02,940 --> 06:27:06,280
and the amount of people that have lived and worked with the mind,

3460
06:27:06,280 --> 06:27:11,040
answers and minors throughout the last hundred years. I support DCC energy.

3461
06:27:13,990 --> 06:27:14,610
Thank you.

3462
06:27:18,270 --> 06:27:21,950
Anyone else wish to make public comment at this time?

3463
06:27:30,550 --> 06:27:30,710
Sure.

3464
06:27:34,010 --> 06:27:41,050
I'm William T. Williams. I live in County Road, 1120, 1644, County Road, 1120. There's been a lot of discussion

3465
06:27:41,050 --> 06:27:48,190
about the population density along the routes. Somebody that's been our population segment that has been

3466
06:27:48,190 --> 06:27:52,750
Clearly ignored are the residents along Highway 140.

3467
06:27:52,990 --> 06:27:59,450
Now I understand that the county has no direct authority over the route on a Colorado

3468
06:27:59,450 --> 06:28:00,070
Highway.

3469
06:28:00,290 --> 06:28:05,790
However, those are Laplaza County residents, and those are trucks running through Laplaza

3470
06:28:05,790 --> 06:28:06,290
County.

3471
06:28:07,050 --> 06:28:14,320
On that road, there are six major intersections, and there are over 35 residences that are

3472
06:28:14,320 --> 06:28:23,360
connection to Highway 140. So in addition to the number of intersections along county road

3473
06:28:23,360 --> 06:28:30,680
of 120 north, it really is incumbent upon the commissioners to consider those residents

3474
06:28:30,680 --> 06:28:39,040
that live on Highway 140. They are directly impacted on the number of increased tracks up

3475
06:28:39,040 --> 06:28:43,400
to 288 extra trucks running up and down that highway.

3476
06:28:43,820 --> 06:28:46,560
So I would hope that you would take those residents

3477
06:28:46,560 --> 06:28:49,020
in the consideration on your deliberations.

3478
06:28:49,120 --> 06:28:49,980
Thank you.

3479
06:28:50,200 --> 06:28:50,800
Thank you.

3480
06:28:54,250 --> 06:28:56,470
Anyone else wish to make public comment?

3481
06:29:00,380 --> 06:29:02,900
Seeing none, we will close our public comment,

3482
06:29:03,540 --> 06:29:04,540
portion of the meeting,

3483
06:29:07,950 --> 06:29:09,670
and for the afternoon,

3484
06:29:10,550 --> 06:29:12,310
until this evening at 6 o'clock.

3485
06:29:13,830 --> 06:29:19,130
And have board question and answer session.

3486
06:29:22,870 --> 06:29:23,030
Sure.

3487
06:29:23,470 --> 06:29:23,930
Do you want to?

3488
06:29:25,030 --> 06:29:25,570
Do you have anything?

3489
06:29:25,590 --> 06:29:25,890
I don't.

3490
06:29:26,070 --> 06:29:29,490
We just before we break if that's where we're headed.

3491
06:29:30,350 --> 06:29:37,710
I'm going to update a list of the documents that are part of the record and those that are still to be determined.

3492
06:29:38,130 --> 06:29:44,790
I assume that all of the handout submitted by the public you want to be part of the record.

3493
06:29:44,790 --> 06:29:50,610
we would typically do that. So I will add that to the list and provide a copy to everyone. So we're

3494
06:29:50,610 --> 06:29:58,790
all talking up the same page tonight. I believe we've also been receiving some email comments

3495
06:30:11,600 --> 06:30:25,140
We are not going to read all of that into the record, but I provided to everyone the link that you can check in order to review all the public comments that are received.

3496
06:30:26,770 --> 06:30:32,430
For the record, Mr. Chair, can we at least state the number of comments we've received

3497
06:30:33,430 --> 06:30:35,170
on line today?

3498
06:30:38,920 --> 06:30:39,540
I think it was.

3499
06:30:40,520 --> 06:30:44,160
You know, I can click on now and see what the updated number is.

3500
06:30:44,660 --> 06:30:45,360
Wait a second.

3501
06:31:37,740 --> 06:31:38,080
Okay.

3502
06:31:38,080 --> 06:31:43,220
Five were tests and then it says there's 28 responses, so I think there's actually perhaps

3503
06:31:43,220 --> 06:31:43,800
23.

3504
06:31:46,050 --> 06:31:46,890
Thank you.

3505
06:31:51,540 --> 06:31:51,920
Yes.

3506
06:31:52,980 --> 06:31:53,500
28.

3507
06:31:53,500 --> 06:31:56,320
Does that include the five test?

3508
06:31:57,720 --> 06:31:58,940
Okay, so 23.

3509
06:31:59,660 --> 06:32:01,500
Okay, thank you.

3510
06:32:02,260 --> 06:32:02,980
Thank you.

3511
06:32:03,400 --> 06:32:04,860
So Mr. Chairman for clarification.

3512
06:32:05,720 --> 06:32:12,660
Our agenda indicates that right now we had anticipated, I think, kind of,

3513
06:32:12,740 --> 06:32:15,020
the follow-up questions by the board.

3514
06:32:15,720 --> 06:32:20,720
And then Robuddo comments, I think, by the parties and so on.

3515
06:32:20,800 --> 06:32:22,620
Do we still want to do that now?

3516
06:32:22,620 --> 06:32:27,520
or do we want to wait to all the public commoners concluded before we hear from the parties

3517
06:32:27,520 --> 06:32:30,800
in terms of concluding statements?

3518
06:32:32,580 --> 06:32:36,640
It would be re-battle at the end of the public comment.

3519
06:32:36,980 --> 06:32:41,620
One, I think the parties probably would appreciate the break in order to perhaps form their

3520
06:32:41,620 --> 06:32:46,440
thoughts, but when we get public comment tonight there may be things that they would like

3521
06:32:46,440 --> 06:32:47,040
to address.

3522
06:32:48,040 --> 06:32:57,080
I think it makes sense to just let them be able to respond to everything that we've heard rather than try to have them respond in the middle.

3523
06:32:57,600 --> 06:33:05,040
But if there are outstanding questions, I think I would certainly be supportive of finishing up our questions.

3524
06:33:07,980 --> 06:33:14,980
So Commissioner, you would support asking questions. Now is that what you're saying asking questions now?

3525
06:33:14,980 --> 06:33:20,360
We can we've got the time of the kind of what I was thinking sure. I'm in favor of that.

3526
06:33:32,010 --> 06:33:33,170
I have a question

3527
06:33:33,710 --> 06:33:35,670
Who wants to go first

3528
06:33:38,970 --> 06:33:39,490
If

3529
06:33:41,670 --> 06:33:45,070
somebody has one of the ready go for it. Okay

3530
06:33:45,990 --> 06:33:50,110
I think I'll start with a few outstanding questions for the applicant

3531
06:33:52,610 --> 06:33:58,570
Is I believe the Huntington reservoir was supposed to construction was supposed to be completed today did that happen?

3532
06:34:02,120 --> 06:34:10,640
The reservoir is not not to be complete today. It was supposed to be under way today. Water hauling scheduled to stop by twice of timber 30th.

3533
06:34:10,800 --> 06:34:12,560
The reservoir is under construction.

3534
06:34:13,780 --> 06:34:17,180
We do expect to have it wrapped up before the end of this month.

3535
06:34:18,120 --> 06:34:20,000
And water hauling has stopped.

3536
06:34:22,570 --> 06:34:24,430
Are you getting your water if you're not hauling?

3537
06:34:24,670 --> 06:34:25,990
We're getting it from irrigation, right?

3538
06:34:26,170 --> 06:34:27,990
Oh, stay and take it straight from the ditch.

3539
06:34:28,490 --> 06:34:29,230
Okay, getcha.

3540
06:34:30,130 --> 06:34:30,430
Thanks.

3541
06:34:52,250 --> 06:34:55,610
You know, I just didn't want to get all together.

3542
06:34:57,630 --> 06:35:02,190
These may not be an order or organized for GCC, they just have your name next to them.

3543
06:35:03,070 --> 06:35:04,630
So Mr. Olson, are you still here?

3544
06:35:05,150 --> 06:35:09,470
There are some questions raised in some of the reports that you had underestimated the actual

3545
06:35:09,470 --> 06:35:15,330
costs of construction or of the improvements rather for the county road.

3546
06:35:16,470 --> 06:35:19,070
It's 120 north improvements.

3547
06:35:20,350 --> 06:35:25,250
Are you confident in those numbers or what do we stand with respect to their accuracy?

3548
06:35:27,980 --> 06:35:34,800
As Mike Olson wrote her entry, I am confident for this stage of analysis that those numbers

3549
06:35:34,800 --> 06:35:38,140
are generally in the magnitude of why they are good.

3550
06:35:38,140 --> 06:35:49,520
I utilize CDOT averages for their in assessing road construction costs and so based on what

3551
06:35:49,520 --> 06:35:55,040
we anticipate doing on each particular part of the process of improving the program,

3552
06:35:55,920 --> 06:36:01,740
those costs are reflective of based on CDOT averages.

3553
06:36:01,740 --> 06:36:17,880
Thank you, and with respect you, I believe in one of the exhibits is diagrams of conceptual plans for the improvements to county root 120 north is that correct.

3554
06:36:18,020 --> 06:36:18,500
Correct.

3555
06:36:19,180 --> 06:36:20,420
Can we take a look at him?

3556
06:36:20,540 --> 06:36:21,080
I have a question.

3557
06:36:21,880 --> 06:36:23,220
I did not bring that with me.

3558
06:36:24,260 --> 06:36:26,100
I'm sure someone else in the room has them.

3559
06:36:27,000 --> 06:36:28,640
So, I'll probably tell you, if you,

3560
06:36:28,640 --> 06:36:44,800
It's a picture and it wasn't clear to me what segments necessarily were represented in the photographs and so that's it actually has to do with a 90 degree turn. I believe for first one and

3561
06:36:46,400 --> 06:36:53,300
Does that conceptual plan right now the curve goes to the north of a residence?

3562
06:36:54,220 --> 06:37:00,220
Does your plan anticipate the road being rerouted, re-aligned to go to the south of that residence?

3563
06:37:00,960 --> 06:37:04,600
Putting in in what would look like a really weird place?

3564
06:37:05,180 --> 06:37:12,480
That particular work you're talking about is Maopo's point three, and that is the first 90-degree corner on Canada at 120.

3565
06:37:12,480 --> 06:37:18,640
There are constrained areas right there because they're used with the old highway and they're

3566
06:37:18,640 --> 06:37:26,020
so all the transmission lines, both local service and transmission going along the existing

3567
06:37:26,020 --> 06:37:26,860
kind of road.

3568
06:37:28,690 --> 06:37:29,330
Thank you.

3569
06:37:29,490 --> 06:37:30,530
And we're looking at which exhibit?

3570
06:37:30,930 --> 06:37:37,910
This is attachment 5 in your packet, but with that, I'm not sure which sheet, but one of the

3571
06:37:37,910 --> 06:37:39,710
elements are also telling you which sheet it is.

3572
06:37:50,230 --> 06:37:53,870
We could pull it up on the screen for you real fast as well.

3573
06:37:53,870 --> 06:37:54,830
That would be great.

3574
06:37:55,210 --> 06:37:57,890
Thank you.

3575
06:37:58,530 --> 06:38:01,270
Mr. Chairman, if I may, while we're looking for that.

3576
06:38:02,350 --> 06:38:05,430
I would also just note for the record relative to the question about cost.

3577
06:38:05,970 --> 06:38:09,250
That under the road improvement agreement, there is no cap on the dollar amount.

3578
06:38:09,430 --> 06:38:11,030
That GCC is required to expand.

3579
06:38:11,210 --> 06:38:13,010
They're just required to construct the improvements.

3580
06:38:13,750 --> 06:38:16,870
So the risk of increased cost is on GCC.

3581
06:39:30,980 --> 06:39:34,940
We can address that later, but I just wanted to request a copy of the Realtive Report.

3582
06:39:35,180 --> 06:39:36,520
That's the only document we don't have.

3583
06:39:36,800 --> 06:39:36,800
Thank

3584
06:39:39,170 --> 06:39:40,350
you.

3585
06:39:41,250 --> 06:39:44,670
Commissioner Westeriff, is this a particular looking at the...

3586
06:39:44,670 --> 06:39:45,490
That is it.

3587
06:39:46,710 --> 06:39:51,650
First, if you look in the upper right hand, you'll see a North Arrow.

3588
06:39:53,030 --> 06:39:57,210
That gives you relative directional what's going on right there.

3589
06:39:57,850 --> 06:39:59,150
This is conceptual plan.

3590
06:39:59,150 --> 06:40:17,930
There are in the existing alignment, there are power poles on both sides of the roadway, and in fact actually at the 90-degree corner that used to run 90 degrees and go directly east across a bridge that's since been abandoned.

3591
06:40:21,490 --> 06:40:25,130
So that's probably why the juncture that particular 90-degree corner.

3592
06:40:26,550 --> 06:40:31,350
This is conceptual plan and the next stage is going to discuss with the right away.

3593
06:40:32,390 --> 06:40:38,350
The issues that we have, there is a, a acceptable curve in the existing alignment.

3594
06:40:39,610 --> 06:40:44,470
And because it's constrained, the option of being, as you go ahead and align it, something

3595
06:40:44,470 --> 06:40:51,790
like it's shown, or you align it where that you take out quite a bit of the, or re-direct

3596
06:40:51,790 --> 06:40:53,830
the existing parallites.

3597
06:40:53,830 --> 06:40:55,870
This is one option.

3598
06:40:56,110 --> 06:41:01,850
This is what we'll do additional assessment of and that's regards to what we're looking

3599
06:41:01,850 --> 06:41:07,270
at both what makes the most sense and that includes Radaway and that includes direction

3600
06:41:07,270 --> 06:41:10,750
and conversations with that particular property owner.

3601
06:41:11,230 --> 06:41:16,910
And this, just so you know, this particular instance, that's probably acquiring the full

3602
06:41:16,910 --> 06:41:17,410
parcel.

3603
06:41:19,010 --> 06:41:26,770
This case here is, I would say, the exception to the amount of right away that's currently

3604
06:41:26,770 --> 06:41:31,970
or the road to line within the existing alignment.

3605
06:41:35,150 --> 06:41:42,310
And I guess, in my, if this were my house, and I saw this, I would be a little bit upset

3606
06:41:42,310 --> 06:41:42,790
right now.

3607
06:41:42,810 --> 06:41:47,590
So I'm wondering, did you talk to these people that they know, or is this, if they look at

3608
06:41:47,590 --> 06:41:54,330
So are they going to just kind of freak out and, you know, to what extent, you know, is this

3609
06:41:54,330 --> 06:41:54,530
particular?

3610
06:41:55,110 --> 06:41:57,430
So you first go out and say, what actually is doable?

3611
06:41:57,610 --> 06:42:00,410
Then you go out as part of the preliminary plan phase.

3612
06:42:00,690 --> 06:42:02,470
You should go ahead and say, this is what you have.

3613
06:42:03,170 --> 06:42:08,530
And here, if it's to a point that doesn't make any sense and the property owner is not supportive,

3614
06:42:08,990 --> 06:42:10,290
then you try something else.

3615
06:42:10,930 --> 06:42:12,170
And, but you're going to start someplace.

3616
06:42:12,570 --> 06:42:12,890
Okay.

3617
06:42:13,590 --> 06:42:14,190
So, this is-

3618
06:42:14,190 --> 06:42:14,930
So your questions-

3619
06:42:14,930 --> 06:42:16,610
So your questions-

3620
06:42:19,470 --> 06:42:21,410
And then, uh-

3621
06:42:21,410 --> 06:42:23,170
Not since we're looking at this thing.

3622
06:42:24,330 --> 06:42:27,990
I don't know what it'd be helpful to-

3623
06:42:27,990 --> 06:42:30,950
I guess what I'd just really like to know is we've heard from,

3624
06:42:31,110 --> 06:42:32,670
uh, we've got a proper donor,

3625
06:42:33,210 --> 06:42:33,530
Um,

3626
06:42:34,130 --> 06:42:37,970
Ms Honsegary, who has concerns about what-

3627
06:42:37,970 --> 06:42:39,970
Um, if I say it wrong, stop me,

3628
06:42:40,050 --> 06:42:42,370
but my belief is you have concerns about the way

3629
06:42:42,370 --> 06:42:47,210
the realignment. I heard her say she had concerns about the way the realignment might affect

3630
06:42:47,210 --> 06:42:57,290
her property. What what voice will she have in that in the consideration of a realignment

3631
06:42:57,290 --> 06:42:58,070
near her?

3632
06:42:58,150 --> 06:43:05,970
She definitely have a voice and with that as it right now there's no plans to move the

3633
06:43:05,970 --> 06:43:11,430
center line and that's typically how you set up a road design project. You establish a

3634
06:43:11,430 --> 06:43:18,470
line, and where the assume center line is, there's no, at this point, is to, we intend

3635
06:43:18,470 --> 06:43:23,970
to push the center line and move it all towards the north, which, I mean, away from Ms.

3636
06:43:24,150 --> 06:43:25,230
Sonsinger's house.

3637
06:43:25,990 --> 06:43:29,010
There is an issue because she is right on the road.

3638
06:43:29,810 --> 06:43:32,430
Her pipe fence is right on the road.

3639
06:43:33,510 --> 06:43:38,350
And with that, there's parking that's currently being supported that is right on the road.

3640
06:43:38,350 --> 06:43:43,890
And so we have to address any type of clear zone issues and make sure the drainage works.

3641
06:43:44,410 --> 06:43:50,790
And all those components go into the final road design, but Ms. Um, Ms. Um, would be a part of that.

3642
06:43:53,600 --> 06:43:54,340
Thank you.

3643
06:43:54,900 --> 06:43:55,220
Also,

3644
06:43:59,950 --> 06:44:07,350
um, there's an opportunity to address this too, but there is a, I believe one of the, there's been

3645
06:44:07,350 --> 06:44:14,750
comment raised that there might have been an under-reporting of accidents and I had a similar concern

3646
06:44:14,750 --> 06:44:22,270
as I was reading through the documents because I don't know where those the accident reports

3647
06:44:22,270 --> 06:44:27,670
came from whether they were things that were reported to the sheriff's office or the highway patrol.

3648
06:44:28,130 --> 06:44:31,250
Those are things that went through central dispatch if those were things that were reported to

3649
06:44:31,250 --> 06:44:38,370
We've heard a couple of different anecdotal comments here about people in ditches that didn't

3650
06:44:38,370 --> 06:44:39,130
get reported.

3651
06:44:39,650 --> 06:44:46,270
Truck sideways in the road that aren't considered accidents, so they don't get recounted.

3652
06:44:47,030 --> 06:44:52,750
And even in GCC's Accounting, I can't remember what document it was, but there was one

3653
06:44:52,750 --> 06:44:58,710
that record, I think it was in the maybe emergency procedures and how accidents will be handled

3654
06:44:58,710 --> 06:44:59,970
it's different than truck.

3655
06:45:00,000 --> 06:45:08,280
Such it stuck in a ditch and truck stuck in a ditch may not be actually an accident for one definition, but it certainly

3656
06:45:08,280 --> 06:45:16,380
sounds to be a traffic problem. And I'm just wondering how was that collection of data still

3657
06:45:16,380 --> 06:45:23,860
relevant to you? Was it under reporting change your analyses of the adequacy or changes that

3658
06:45:23,860 --> 06:45:25,260
do you meet to the road?

3659
06:45:26,680 --> 06:45:30,200
So my analysis is based on recorded data.

3660
06:45:31,500 --> 06:45:34,800
And this typically the way it's done is it's a car

3661
06:45:34,800 --> 06:45:37,440
of state patrol holds main database.

3662
06:45:38,860 --> 06:45:42,780
And through the action reporting that I have reflect

3663
06:45:42,780 --> 06:45:49,280
that representative in my reports or based on the data

3664
06:45:49,280 --> 06:45:50,700
supplied by the county.

3665
06:45:50,700 --> 06:45:58,340
Now, that being said, that's only recorded data, that does not include a particular incident

3666
06:45:58,340 --> 06:46:03,340
where both people say, hey, you shouldn't have done that and gotten charged space and

3667
06:46:03,340 --> 06:46:04,280
walked away.

3668
06:46:04,960 --> 06:46:12,300
So there are times where you have incidents that are recorded, that do occur, and whether

3669
06:46:12,300 --> 06:46:20,840
of being from some truck that's been too wide in a road or somebody who's traveled too fast

3670
06:46:20,840 --> 06:46:25,860
or whatever, but there may be a particular instances that, and in it, from residents

3671
06:46:25,860 --> 06:46:31,580
who live there, they say just so that there are, there are accidents that are not recorded

3672
06:46:32,120 --> 06:46:33,980
or there are incidents that are happening out of court.

3673
06:46:34,600 --> 06:46:39,540
And the way that the Karostate Patrol looks at is, you have three types, you have a property

3674
06:46:39,540 --> 06:46:44,100
down at Joan only, you have injury or you have fatality.

3675
06:46:45,160 --> 06:46:47,240
And so that's how they record their actions.

3676
06:46:47,900 --> 06:46:52,340
Just case and point in one, twenty-self in the last few years.

3677
06:46:52,600 --> 06:46:53,340
There were two fatalities.

3678
06:46:54,340 --> 06:46:59,000
And that happened to be one with a motorcycle, a hidden animal.

3679
06:46:59,380 --> 06:47:04,400
Another one was a person who didn't negotiate a 90-degree curve,

3680
06:47:04,960 --> 06:47:06,440
and was excessive speed.

3681
06:47:06,440 --> 06:47:12,540
those things, you know, those are in the actual records, but going back to question, does

3682
06:47:12,540 --> 06:47:21,960
everything get reported? No. And as they get handled, they get handled by the residents

3683
06:47:21,960 --> 06:47:28,060
there on site, and they don't get reported to the accident. You know, I'm going to say that.

3684
06:47:31,040 --> 06:47:32,960
How does that affect your analysis?

3685
06:47:33,640 --> 06:47:36,720
If there's an entry, I mean, you're going to get that.

3686
06:47:36,860 --> 06:47:39,260
If there's a property damage, you're going to get that because that's the only way

3687
06:47:39,260 --> 06:47:39,920
you can make a claim.

3688
06:47:40,980 --> 06:47:46,100
And so I would say that for the most part, it's accurate and reflective on the operations

3689
06:47:46,100 --> 06:47:47,380
of the road.

3690
06:47:48,720 --> 06:47:52,860
But I would say that, I mean, that's the only thing I can go by right there.

3691
06:47:54,180 --> 06:47:58,560
Mr. Chairman, if I could add one thing, Terrell and White again for the record, while

3692
06:47:58,560 --> 06:48:02,640
it may be true that individual private drivers on that road might have the option to

3693
06:48:02,640 --> 06:48:04,940
whether or not they wish to report an incident.

3694
06:48:06,020 --> 06:48:09,460
The truck drivers under contract to GCC do not have that option.

3695
06:48:09,620 --> 06:48:15,300
It is GCC's policy that any incident, whether it's a single car, a truck in a ditch

3696
06:48:15,300 --> 06:48:18,880
or under their policy, all of them need to be reported.

3697
06:48:20,480 --> 06:48:25,160
So we, I would say, could infer from that a relatively high degree of confidence in the data

3698
06:48:25,160 --> 06:48:27,540
as it relates to GCC vehicles.

3699
06:48:27,640 --> 06:48:30,900
It may be true that other accidents are under-reported.

3700
06:48:32,530 --> 06:48:39,630
Thank you and I think you're right of way agent is here

3701
06:48:41,130 --> 06:48:46,310
He spoke of the planning commission meeting correct. Would you like to add questions up there anyway?

3702
06:48:46,550 --> 06:48:47,290
I could

3703
06:49:01,660 --> 06:49:05,300
my name is Rob Johnston and with Johnston land company

3704
06:49:05,300 --> 06:49:08,120
Address at 1315 main Avenue

3705
06:49:08,800 --> 06:49:10,560
Sweet 2 2 2 2

3706
06:49:10,560 --> 06:49:11,440
Durango Colorado

3707
06:49:11,440 --> 06:49:16,040
Thank you, Mr. Johnston Johnston. Yes, thank you

3708
06:49:16,040 --> 06:49:26,820
You have my right of way question to Mr. Olson and did you have anything to add to that or clarify?

3709
06:49:28,480 --> 06:49:30,200
I'm sure I could try it again.

3710
06:49:30,900 --> 06:49:38,460
So my first concern was just as it related to this, this property that's on the screen now,

3711
06:49:38,560 --> 06:49:40,060
and it sounds like for Mr. Olson.

3712
06:49:40,280 --> 06:49:44,640
If this doesn't work out, then other options would be considered.

3713
06:49:44,640 --> 06:49:51,680
The other one had the question had to do with Ms. Hunsaker and implications for her of some kind of

3714
06:49:51,680 --> 06:49:56,160
re-alignment and what would be the involvement of property owners in that process.

3715
06:49:56,460 --> 06:50:00,500
And as the right away, H&I assume you'd be involved there.

3716
06:50:01,560 --> 06:50:01,800
Yes.

3717
06:50:03,440 --> 06:50:10,120
First of all, the guidelines and process and procedures would be following the Uniform Act.

3718
06:50:10,120 --> 06:50:21,700
And in general, what that does is it provides that property owner with the policies and procedures that are going to be followed for that potential right away acquisition.

3719
06:50:23,540 --> 06:50:39,020
And what's set up as the right away agent to deliver information about the project to the land owner and have integrated negotiations with that land owner and having that land owner be able to provide comment or concerns.

3720
06:50:39,020 --> 06:50:51,080
And the two parties would enter into problem senses, identifying problems, and trying to come up with some problem resolutions.

3721
06:50:52,360 --> 06:51:00,320
So, when I look at this first picture here at the 90 degree corner, there could be a couple of different options.

3722
06:51:00,320 --> 06:51:07,920
and until something is presented, and discussions are started between the right-of-way

3723
06:51:07,920 --> 06:51:12,740
agent in the landowner, that's just the first step.

3724
06:51:13,340 --> 06:51:19,340
But the landowner is encouraged to participate and provide comment back about their concerns

3725
06:51:19,340 --> 06:51:20,920
or issues.

3726
06:51:21,040 --> 06:51:26,680
And then we work to try to resolve those through problem senses and reach some voluntary

3727
06:51:26,680 --> 06:51:27,380
consent.

3728
06:51:30,780 --> 06:51:37,040
Mr. Johnson, just a quick question. Have you done land acquisition in this area before?

3729
06:51:38,280 --> 06:51:43,060
I've worked in the land and ride-away business here in the Plata County for 26 years.

3730
06:51:44,000 --> 06:51:55,720
Primarily in the oil and gas industry, but also for public utility companies, with both pipelines, compressors, compressors, stations, and transmission lines.

3731
06:51:55,720 --> 06:51:57,600
in this area?

3732
06:51:57,600 --> 06:51:59,300
26 years in Leopard Academy.

3733
06:51:59,480 --> 06:52:00,300
Sorry, sorry.

3734
06:52:00,880 --> 06:52:02,340
In the hate gulch area.

3735
06:52:04,700 --> 06:52:07,720
My only involvement actually in the hate gulch area was

3736
06:52:07,720 --> 06:52:10,920
acquiring at least a lease in favor of GCC

3737
06:52:10,920 --> 06:52:12,800
from the U-Mount News.

3738
06:52:14,000 --> 06:52:14,820
Thank you.

3739
06:52:20,870 --> 06:52:21,090
Commissioner.

3740
06:52:22,290 --> 06:52:24,510
You just asking general questions or just for GCC?

3741
06:52:25,450 --> 06:52:26,930
I don't think we're doing it either.

3742
06:52:27,370 --> 06:52:27,690
Okay.

3743
06:52:30,490 --> 06:52:31,970
All right, I'll pick some for GCC.

3744
06:52:32,930 --> 06:52:39,210
I'm not sure, I don't think I need to anymore, but who knows?

3745
06:52:41,190 --> 06:52:50,830
I'm a tour that the commissioners were able to take with staff and members of GCC personnel.

3746
06:52:51,690 --> 06:53:00,470
We noticed that a large pullout outside of the north of the mine on Cairo 120.

3747
06:53:02,210 --> 06:53:07,750
And we had a quick answer question about what the trucks were doing, whether they were actually

3748
06:53:07,750 --> 06:53:16,410
covering their loads, when they pulled out into the pullout or exactly it was more of a safety

3749
06:53:16,410 --> 06:53:16,970
check.

3750
06:53:24,860 --> 06:53:28,860
Mr. Peterson is probably the most knowledgeable, but he wasn't on the tour, so just to make

3751
06:53:28,860 --> 06:53:32,840
absolutely sure we were referring to the exact right place that you're referencing.

3752
06:53:33,480 --> 06:53:36,720
I just would like to see if there's another GCC person who's better suited to answer

3753
06:53:36,720 --> 06:53:37,280
that question.

3754
06:53:37,280 --> 06:53:41,120
Can he keep coming up right now and there would be the person I was thinking of?

3755
06:53:43,600 --> 06:53:51,300
Working, my name is Wade one more, I reside at 918 East Oak Drive, Bayfield, Colorado.

3756
06:53:52,120 --> 06:53:53,960
We're for juicy see for 22 years.

3757
06:53:54,440 --> 06:53:58,860
When we were on the tour of the area that you were talking about, it's considered what we call the truckers.

3758
06:53:59,640 --> 06:54:02,660
Call the U-curals, it's state ground.

3759
06:54:02,920 --> 06:54:06,920
It's an extra wide spot right next to the loading shoots.

3760
06:54:07,280 --> 06:54:12,720
And that's where they were pulling off out of the lane of traffic on County Road 120.

3761
06:54:15,370 --> 06:54:18,610
This turnout actually isn't near a loading shoot.

3762
06:54:19,310 --> 06:54:20,490
Loading shoot is a cattle.

3763
06:54:21,330 --> 06:54:21,690
It's a cattle.

3764
06:54:22,230 --> 06:54:22,790
Okay.

3765
06:54:25,630 --> 06:54:27,210
Not a cold shoot.

3766
06:54:27,870 --> 06:54:27,930
Okay.

3767
06:54:28,670 --> 06:54:32,510
So what activities are they performing when they pull off?

3768
06:54:32,510 --> 06:54:38,970
They're required by GCC policy to be charted or un-tarp at that location because there's no

3769
06:54:38,970 --> 06:54:41,210
residents in between there and the mine site.

3770
06:54:42,170 --> 06:54:44,870
If they need to pull off prior to getting to the mine site.

3771
06:54:46,530 --> 06:54:50,310
And when they're leaving the mine site, what activity are they pursuing?

3772
06:54:50,570 --> 06:54:50,850
Because same.

3773
06:54:51,070 --> 06:54:55,270
If they do not tarp on the mine site, they will tarp their out-of-the-lane at traffic.

3774
06:54:59,950 --> 06:55:07,110
Is there a representative of the trucking company present in the audience today?

3775
06:55:08,210 --> 06:55:12,410
We did not call or invite them as our witnesses, but I suspect you might have a good

3776
06:55:12,410 --> 06:55:15,290
representative in the audience if you ask that question generally.

3777
06:55:15,290 --> 06:55:25,950
Okay. I had a question as to the number of hours that truckers are on the job per day.

3778
06:55:26,410 --> 06:55:33,270
And I have noticed the majority of the trucks that I've witnessed and certainly on the tour have

3779
06:55:33,270 --> 06:55:38,370
New Mexico plates, I'm wondering, do the majority of the folks drive in trucks,

3780
06:55:38,370 --> 06:55:45,750
Reside a new Mexico and base on number of hours a day or they are picking up one load and

3781
06:55:45,750 --> 06:55:50,490
go and south the Gallup and staying or coming back a number of times a day.

3782
06:55:50,750 --> 06:55:52,530
Mr. Y. More might be able to answer that question.

3783
06:55:54,010 --> 06:55:59,710
I can answer on the hours that they run. Now there is trucks that run down and you might

3784
06:55:59,710 --> 06:56:05,010
see the same truck in one day but they have different drivers during the shift. May run down

3785
06:56:05,010 --> 06:56:08,830
If they're going to the gallop location, they'll run down the gallop, return back to their

3786
06:56:08,830 --> 06:56:13,470
yard in Kirtland area and a different jock you'll get in the cab and take over.

3787
06:56:14,710 --> 06:56:15,970
So, Kirtland is one of there.

3788
06:56:16,170 --> 06:56:17,210
Is there a main?

3789
06:56:17,250 --> 06:56:20,810
There's a couple of different trucking companies, one of the facilities is in Kirtland.

3790
06:56:21,410 --> 06:56:24,230
The other trucking companies, other facilities in Farmington.

3791
06:56:24,770 --> 06:56:24,930
OK.

3792
06:56:30,200 --> 06:56:35,200
Commissioner, you might ask that question again after 6 p.m. when the folks that are working

3793
06:56:35,200 --> 06:56:37,800
during the day come for the second round of public comment.

3794
06:56:37,800 --> 06:56:41,580
Okay, I think we'll have some more witnesses available at that time.

3795
06:56:41,820 --> 06:56:42,820
Okay, great.

3796
06:56:42,980 --> 06:56:43,380
Thanks.

3797
06:56:43,740 --> 06:56:46,400
We may have somebody right now wanting to answer that question.

3798
06:56:53,910 --> 06:56:54,770
I am Brandon Wendell.

3799
06:56:54,890 --> 06:56:57,870
I am well on wheels, water hauling here in the public county.

3800
06:56:58,890 --> 06:57:04,550
Truckers by National DOT requirements are not allowed to drive anything more than 11 hours

3801
06:57:04,550 --> 06:57:05,330
a day.

3802
06:57:05,570 --> 06:57:09,250
They are allowed to be on shift trip 14 hours, but only behind the wheel for 11.

3803
06:57:09,910 --> 06:57:14,750
They have to document all of their in and out time at the seat and document what they're

3804
06:57:14,750 --> 06:57:20,930
when they're not driving. So I thought that might help answer that question. Thank you.

3805
06:57:20,990 --> 06:57:21,450
You're welcome.

3806
06:57:32,590 --> 06:57:33,450
Okay.

3807
06:57:36,860 --> 06:57:38,180
I guess

3808
06:57:45,020 --> 06:57:49,760
other questions for GCCC.

3809
06:57:53,520 --> 06:58:00,380
I guess is a follow-up to the council for

3810
06:58:00,380 --> 06:58:13,600
for the neighbors and cross creek, the request, repeated request for 55 trucks, a limit

3811
06:58:13,600 --> 06:58:15,940
on 55 trucks per day going north.

3812
06:58:17,020 --> 06:58:23,340
Have you analyzed a split of 55 trucks going north, 25, 25, using this other route?

3813
06:58:23,920 --> 06:58:29,680
And I was noting one of the comments earlier from a member of the public setting when

3814
06:58:29,680 --> 06:58:37,020
The traffic was at 50 trucks per day. It was hardly noticeable when you were a resident near the road.

3815
06:58:37,980 --> 06:58:44,360
Anyway, I just wanted to put that out there on the record, but have you analyzed that split?

3816
06:58:48,300 --> 06:58:50,640
So, I really hear that as maybe two questions.

3817
06:58:50,900 --> 06:58:55,000
One is the question of, could GCC reduce operations to 55 trucks period.

3818
06:58:55,000 --> 06:59:02,260
The second is, has GCC analyzed 55 trucks on county road 12 north, plus 25 trucks or some other

3819
06:59:02,260 --> 06:59:04,060
number on county road 125.

3820
06:59:04,440 --> 06:59:06,520
Well, I believe 55 was the neighbor's question.

3821
06:59:06,540 --> 06:59:12,400
My question is, have you analyzed 55 trucks going north and 25 going south?

3822
06:59:12,520 --> 06:59:13,420
Plus 25 going south.

3823
06:59:13,760 --> 06:59:13,800
Okay.

3824
06:59:13,920 --> 06:59:15,500
We'll address that question now then.

3825
06:59:15,500 --> 06:59:15,720
Okay.

3826
06:59:15,840 --> 06:59:16,820
Thank you.

3827
06:59:21,540 --> 06:59:23,280
We've worked closely analyzed.

3828
06:59:23,280 --> 06:59:29,040
It's one twenty-south, it's entirety, and for a number of reasons, which by Colson's

3829
06:59:29,040 --> 06:59:34,120
stated earlier, it's not a favored route because of the number of constraints that are built

3830
06:59:34,120 --> 06:59:38,080
into the road, the number of netty degree corners, the number of county road intersections,

3831
06:59:39,040 --> 06:59:44,040
and the nature of the state highway intersections at any traffic volume.

3832
06:59:45,700 --> 06:59:51,880
I will further comment that there were times in years past that one twenty-south was used

3833
06:59:51,880 --> 06:59:56,040
is an alternate route. Sometimes during snow events,

3834
06:59:58,740 --> 06:59:59,980
it was any time that

3835
07:00:00,000 --> 07:00:08,840
Out was used, it was found to be problematic. In 1996, GCC opened its own truck, GCC's predecessor,

3836
07:00:09,060 --> 07:00:16,640
National King Cole opened its own trucking company at RAN its own trucks until 2004, I believe.

3837
07:00:18,000 --> 07:00:26,420
I was in charge of the trucking company for a while. At the beginning of that point, there was the occasional practice of running trucks to the south.

3838
07:00:26,420 --> 07:00:33,080
It became problematic enough with the number of trucks stuck in the ditch and spilled loads

3839
07:00:33,080 --> 07:00:38,840
that we absolutely abandoned the practice of driving to the south.

3840
07:00:40,160 --> 07:00:45,440
After we sold the trucking company in 2004, there was again a short time when trucks were

3841
07:00:45,440 --> 07:00:50,480
occasionally routed to the south for one convenience or another, but finally that was abandoned

3842
07:00:50,480 --> 07:00:52,940
because it's a problematic nature of the route.

3843
07:00:53,760 --> 07:01:04,360
If I may ask staff, Mr. Murray, would you mind finding the slide of the roads to the various routes?

3844
07:01:05,340 --> 07:01:07,560
The 120 going north, 120 going south.

3845
07:01:07,580 --> 07:01:14,060
I heard Mr. Dodson say during his testimony that he was not recommending the full southern route,

3846
07:01:14,060 --> 07:01:17,260
but using the combination of 119, 116.

3847
07:01:18,600 --> 07:01:22,220
I would just like to see the visual on that.

3848
07:01:36,680 --> 07:01:48,600
Yeah, Ms. Marie, could you show where the route that the commissioners were driven on going to the south versus the route that Mr. Dodson is recommending, or recommended?

3849
07:01:49,560 --> 07:01:50,640
Any emergency planning department?

3850
07:01:50,640 --> 07:01:59,720
The Green Line shows North 120, the red squares, the mine, then we traveled south to this intersection.

3851
07:01:59,720 --> 07:02:09,340
right here we went left and traveled up this hill and right around here the road becomes paved so then

3852
07:02:09,340 --> 07:02:15,300
you may remember that right yes portion of it and it actually goes up and down probably to

3853
07:02:15,300 --> 07:02:23,580
with these advantages so then there's a hard right where the ditches these two 90 degrees and then

3854
07:02:23,580 --> 07:02:24,840
We popped out here at 140.

3855
07:02:25,660 --> 07:02:30,260
We traveled south down to Klein, where the school is.

3856
07:02:30,260 --> 07:02:31,680
Schools actually down here.

3857
07:02:32,600 --> 07:02:36,860
And then hung this right and went back in on 119.

3858
07:02:37,520 --> 07:02:38,280
And traveled around.

3859
07:02:40,570 --> 07:02:40,810
Okay.

3860
07:02:41,070 --> 07:02:42,110
Thank you.

3861
07:03:04,940 --> 07:03:11,280
I guess perhaps one last question for the applicants.

3862
07:03:14,740 --> 07:03:26,740
If you were to begin, if you were to do all four phases as one phase, how long do you

3863
07:03:26,740 --> 07:03:28,380
believe it would take you?

3864
07:03:28,780 --> 07:03:38,100
And is it, is it even feasible in the amount of time there is between now and winter?

3865
07:03:40,780 --> 07:03:45,380
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Carolyn White, again, I'd like to give you an overview answer

3866
07:03:45,380 --> 07:03:48,500
and then ask Mr. Peterson or Mr. Olson to answer in more detail.

3867
07:03:50,000 --> 07:03:53,260
But I want to highlight for the commission that some of the obstacles here.

3868
07:03:54,000 --> 07:04:01,060
This is not a question of GCC being unwilling to spend money faster or to engage in activities

3869
07:04:01,060 --> 07:04:01,780
faster.

3870
07:04:02,200 --> 07:04:07,100
This is a question of certain steps which have to occur sequentially and the amount of time required

3871
07:04:07,100 --> 07:04:08,600
to complete each of those steps.

3872
07:04:09,060 --> 07:04:13,480
So as to this specific amount of time that you could get it done and if you compressed it,

3873
07:04:13,480 --> 07:04:21,840
I'll let Mr. Olson apply on that if he has an opinion, but the point I'm making is that we are at a phase of conceptual design.

3874
07:04:22,440 --> 07:04:30,680
Subsequent to approval of this permit, if it is approved, we will engage in preliminary design with the approval and coordination with county staff.

3875
07:04:31,120 --> 07:04:37,680
When preliminary design is finalized, then they will engage in the right away analysis that's already been discussed extensively.

3876
07:04:37,680 --> 07:04:45,380
And that will include a process of identifying what right away is needed to complete the roadway as it has been designed as well as

3877
07:04:45,380 --> 07:04:49,840
Alternatives where it appears that it may be problematic to acquire that right away, right?

3878
07:04:49,840 --> 07:04:55,980
Like the corner we were just looking at and all of these things cannot occur concurrently.

3879
07:04:56,660 --> 07:05:04,340
So the parts that can be done quickly are already proposed to be done as soon as possible namely in 2016

3880
07:05:04,340 --> 07:05:11,120
And those are also the parts that have the most urgent need, like the immediate paving in front of the residents of the portion that's on pay.

3881
07:05:11,700 --> 07:05:17,300
But significant portions of this can't be really engaged in until certain other portions are completed.

3882
07:05:17,680 --> 07:05:21,880
And that's really the constraint that's driving some of the proposal for phasing.

3883
07:05:22,440 --> 07:05:27,200
There has also been concern expressed by the residents about how the construction will be staged.

3884
07:05:27,840 --> 07:05:32,260
And that's an issue that will work very closely with county staff.

3885
07:05:32,260 --> 07:05:42,340
But if all of the work were to be expedited and completed all at once, there would be significant impacts likely on both the mind and the residents ability to use the road in the interim,

3886
07:05:42,820 --> 07:05:45,560
phasing it allows it to continue to be used by all parties.

3887
07:05:46,280 --> 07:05:54,040
So that's the sort of big picture overview answer, but I'll let Mr. Peterson and Mr. Olson add any more detail that they think is appropriate.

3888
07:05:59,320 --> 07:06:06,960
Mike Olson wrote an engineering there from the conceptual into the preliminary is a significant

3889
07:06:06,960 --> 07:06:12,840
matter work and the scheduling allows time to complete that work and this just doesn't happen

3890
07:06:12,840 --> 07:06:19,280
overnight and there was and a lot of that it doesn't address the right away requirements

3891
07:06:19,280 --> 07:06:25,820
and if there is any modification to the alignment and so that allows a little bit of time for

3892
07:06:25,820 --> 07:06:32,960
It doesn't allow a lot, and so this isn't aggressive schedule, but you don't want to

3893
07:06:33,520 --> 07:06:37,300
also, you want to put together a schedule that's fairly realistic.

3894
07:06:38,900 --> 07:06:44,760
I think there may be some opportunities to move some tasks forward, but that really depends

3895
07:06:44,760 --> 07:06:49,100
on right away, and if consensus and agreement can reach.

3896
07:06:49,100 --> 07:06:56,860
So, this is a realistic schedule and there's no, there's not in ten to show any type of delay.

3897
07:06:58,720 --> 07:07:02,400
Thank you. Mr. Chair, I actually do have another question for staff.

3898
07:07:03,120 --> 07:07:05,420
Put staff on the hook over here.

3899
07:07:07,200 --> 07:07:17,100
We received a recommendation from Mr. Robbins of changes to the road improvements agreement and

3900
07:07:18,440 --> 07:07:23,720
changes to findings and conditions. I know you probably haven't. I'm not sure if you've

3901
07:07:23,720 --> 07:07:30,420
had a chance to review these in detail, but do you believe it might be possible to give

3902
07:07:30,420 --> 07:07:37,980
the commissioners your opinion of these as it relates to the staff findings and conclusions

3903
07:07:37,980 --> 07:07:44,240
by the after the public comment period this evening?

3904
07:07:46,760 --> 07:07:54,120
At this point, we have certainly not reviewed those proposed amendments extensively.

3905
07:07:54,840 --> 07:07:57,900
We very quickly reviewed them.

3906
07:07:58,440 --> 07:08:05,020
We can certainly try and be prepared to speak more particularly to those amendments this evening.

3907
07:08:05,020 --> 07:08:20,100
However, most of the amendments are being proposed or being driven by the idea of 55 trucks going north which then would be some fairly significant changes to the project as it's been presented by the applicant.

3908
07:08:22,280 --> 07:08:31,100
So we will try and be more prepared this evening, but I'm not sure it's possible at all to do a complete analysis of the implications of change of that magnitude.

3909
07:08:33,360 --> 07:08:34,320
Thank you.

3910
07:08:34,420 --> 07:08:36,880
That's certainly by tomorrow afternoon, right?

3911
07:08:41,910 --> 07:08:47,550
Speaking for my colleagues on this point, but complete analysis of, I mean, if there's

3912
07:08:47,550 --> 07:08:53,670
a limit from 80 to 55, if staff is of the opinion that 80 trucks can go north, kind of

3913
07:08:53,670 --> 07:08:57,950
around 120, then I don't think the issue is 55 trucks can go north, kind of around 120.

3914
07:08:58,490 --> 07:09:03,450
If the issue is trying to divert that access traffic, different direction, and I don't think

3915
07:09:03,450 --> 07:09:09,790
is something that we will be prepared to speak to tomorrow afternoon. That would require an analysis,

3916
07:09:10,410 --> 07:09:17,370
both on public works, perspectives with regard to the road conditions and an analysis from

3917
07:09:17,370 --> 07:09:18,610
planning regarding compatibility.

3918
07:09:21,090 --> 07:09:21,730
Thank you.

3919
07:09:27,740 --> 07:09:31,460
I think only have a couple of questions for Mr. Robbins.

3920
07:09:32,980 --> 07:09:40,220
On the road, you had mentioned that the road will change the neighborhood if the road is

3921
07:09:40,220 --> 07:09:42,020
change, did it would change the neighborhood?

3922
07:09:42,320 --> 07:09:44,500
Can you speak to that a little bit more?

3923
07:09:50,400 --> 07:09:51,620
This is Jeff Ophens for the record.

3924
07:09:52,400 --> 07:09:59,160
And I was paraphrasing, I think, the testimony in particular from Gary Granpo, who spoke

3925
07:09:59,160 --> 07:10:00,340
and is one of the neighbors.

3926
07:10:01,200 --> 07:10:04,720
His point being is that it's a farm-demarket road now.

3927
07:10:05,140 --> 07:10:09,620
In discussions I've had with the neighbors and getting prepared for this hearing and let them

3928
07:10:09,620 --> 07:10:14,740
pipe up if I'm saying this wrong, they don't want a new paved road.

3929
07:10:14,740 --> 07:10:22,080
road. They like the road as it is right now. But they are cognizant of the fact that everyone in

3930
07:10:22,080 --> 07:10:28,060
the room is struggling with having to figure out a way to get a win-win win here. And if GCC

3931
07:10:28,060 --> 07:10:35,460
needs 120-80 T's at the end of the day, they'll bite the bullet and take the road. But Mr. Grant's

3932
07:10:35,460 --> 07:10:42,200
point was that will fundamentally change the neighborhood and that we now will have a road similar

3933
07:10:42,200 --> 07:10:45,840
to the proposed road next to the proposed class.

3934
07:10:45,960 --> 07:10:47,780
I think that's the one that we looked at.

3935
07:10:47,820 --> 07:10:50,960
And I recall the proposed road before and after

3936
07:10:50,960 --> 07:10:54,200
the improvements, and it's a pretty different road.

3937
07:10:55,420 --> 07:10:57,700
And a road of that magnitude

3938
07:10:58,880 --> 07:11:03,060
could likely support additional development down that way.

3939
07:11:03,140 --> 07:11:06,020
I mean, if you just sort of think logically through what

3940
07:11:06,020 --> 07:11:06,920
that could open up.

3941
07:11:06,920 --> 07:11:09,020
And I think that was Mr. Grant's point.

3942
07:11:09,300 --> 07:11:10,500
And I think the other point from the neighbors

3943
07:11:10,500 --> 07:11:16,320
is they like their small farm-to-market road that's there now, but they're trying to come

3944
07:11:16,320 --> 07:11:20,300
to some solution-based orientation for you.

3945
07:11:20,820 --> 07:11:22,120
So I think that was the point.

3946
07:11:23,220 --> 07:11:24,060
Thank you.

3947
07:11:31,090 --> 07:11:37,570
I think that's all the questions I had and appreciate you following up on that.

3948
07:11:42,570 --> 07:11:43,450
Any other questions?

3949
07:11:45,070 --> 07:11:50,030
I do, but I don't want to, I mean, I don't know, I do have questions, but for staff,

3950
07:11:50,030 --> 07:11:53,730
but I don't know if you want to start at 12 minutes after four or not.

3951
07:11:56,880 --> 07:11:57,820
Yes, Mr. Huntington.

3952
07:11:57,960 --> 07:11:58,300
I'm going to

3953
07:12:09,410 --> 07:12:12,350
go and throw up some water and clean the afternoon.

3954
07:12:12,850 --> 07:12:14,250
Mr. Huntington, can you wait a minute?

3955
07:12:14,350 --> 07:12:18,170
If you're going to, first of all, we need to decide if you're allowed to talk again

3956
07:12:18,170 --> 07:12:21,790
since we close public testimony and if you are, you'll need to come up to the mic.

3957
07:12:22,310 --> 07:12:23,590
So if you wait just a second.

3958
07:12:25,150 --> 07:12:30,750
If you open it up, then you have to open it up too, whoever else wants to come in.

3959
07:12:30,750 --> 07:12:32,270
or he can wait till tonight.

3960
07:12:38,720 --> 07:12:42,200
If Mr. Huntington's going to talk about where there have been accidents on the south

3961
07:12:42,200 --> 07:12:46,760
route, I think I have what I need to know already as it relates to that.

3962
07:12:47,180 --> 07:12:52,240
I think I do as well, but you would be more than welcome to come in again this evening

3963
07:12:52,240 --> 07:12:54,240
if you can make it back to that meeting.

3964
07:13:00,160 --> 07:13:00,740
Ask questions.

3965
07:13:00,960 --> 07:13:02,000
They're just told off to later.

3966
07:13:02,800 --> 07:13:08,540
Are these questions you want on the record or is this a staff question?

3967
07:13:08,540 --> 07:13:11,200
These are staff questions I would have to ask on the record.

3968
07:13:11,760 --> 07:13:15,020
I would be in favor of continuing.

3969
07:13:16,100 --> 07:13:16,120
Okay.

3970
07:13:16,560 --> 07:13:19,500
I'm looking at specific questions as it relates to the staff report.

3971
07:13:20,080 --> 07:13:21,880
So please have that handy, Mr. Murray.

3972
07:13:24,500 --> 07:13:27,680
Page 47, item number 26.

3973
07:13:28,120 --> 07:13:36,100
It talks about if truck traffic increases, there would be a need for new permit.

3974
07:13:36,100 --> 07:13:41,180
And I'm wondering, what's the definition of, how do we know if truck traffic is increasing?

3975
07:13:42,520 --> 07:13:44,220
Is what's the trigger for that?

3976
07:13:48,410 --> 07:13:51,990
So Daniel Murray, I'll take the first crack of this and Adam may add on to it.

3977
07:13:51,990 --> 07:13:54,070
We're talking about condition number 26.

3978
07:13:54,710 --> 07:14:00,930
And this was just an absolute explicit reference that any increase in trucks warrants a major amendment.

3979
07:14:01,210 --> 07:14:05,190
That was a recommendation from the cap, citizen advisory panel.

3980
07:14:05,190 --> 07:14:10,490
There are 14 instances where these conditions are directly traceable to be at the

3981
07:14:10,490 --> 07:14:16,210
cap or north one twenty neighbors. So that is one where we are just reiterating

3982
07:14:16,210 --> 07:14:21,430
a recommendation from the public that would be very clear. These truck numbers are absolute

3983
07:14:21,430 --> 07:14:25,090
and that an increase of one warrants a major amendment.

3984
07:14:25,730 --> 07:14:32,910
So that's to say if the full improvements were implemented and the one twenty trucks per day

3985
07:14:32,910 --> 07:14:39,330
we're the number. If it went to 121, well, we'll take the average. But if the average became

3986
07:14:39,970 --> 07:14:45,450
121, that that would be made require a new amendment, it would be a major amendment.

3987
07:14:45,850 --> 07:14:47,250
That's the intent of the condition.

3988
07:14:49,110 --> 07:14:50,290
So would GCC understand?

3989
07:14:54,180 --> 07:14:57,400
Mr. Chairman, Commissioner, yes, that is GCC's understanding and I would

3990
07:14:57,400 --> 07:14:59,960
Additionally, know that the way you will know what they're talking about.

3991
07:15:00,000 --> 07:15:09,000
Members are that GCC is required to do actual reporting and to provide that information not only to the county, but to the public through the website that I mentioned previously.

3992
07:15:11,840 --> 07:15:25,840
So it's whether GCC affirmatively wanted to request the opportunity to add additional trucks or whether it became evident through actual reporting data that they had increased the number of trucks, whether inadvertently or not, that a major amendment would be required.

3993
07:15:27,480 --> 07:15:28,620
Okay, thank you.

3994
07:15:29,480 --> 07:15:32,900
I'd like to spend some time looking at the road improvement agreement.

3995
07:15:33,060 --> 07:15:39,320
That is a crux of what we're looking at today, and that will require me to get it.

3996
07:15:39,320 --> 07:15:45,220
Before we move off of this, I think the example that Ms. Murray offered was an increase to the

3997
07:15:45,220 --> 07:15:50,300
129 acts, but I believe it would be any increase to the truck numbers as referenced in

3998
07:15:50,300 --> 07:15:54,520
condition 15A. That is the chart that dictates all the different truck numbers for the

3999
07:15:54,520 --> 07:16:01,760
phases, and if it would make the condition more clear, we can certainly add a reference to

4000
07:16:01,760 --> 07:16:06,560
the truck numbers as shown on the chart in condition 15A.

4001
07:16:08,220 --> 07:16:10,720
I just want to make sure everybody is on the same page,

4002
07:16:13,000 --> 07:16:14,820
and it sounds like everyone is

4003
07:16:14,820 --> 07:16:16,720
part of that condition is concerned.

4004
07:16:19,820 --> 07:16:22,200
So with respect to the road improvement agreement,

4005
07:16:30,730 --> 07:16:33,890
first, under 1.4 talks about grants, and

4006
07:16:33,890 --> 07:16:41,830
I just want to get a recognition from GCC that we are, we absolutely believe that our grant

4007
07:16:41,830 --> 07:16:47,070
opportunities for projects that would apply to this will be going down.

4008
07:16:47,070 --> 07:16:53,390
every indicator is that the State of Colorado has less and less money to even from energy

4009
07:16:53,390 --> 07:16:59,370
impact grants due to a recent Supreme Court decision that we are now in a high 80s

4010
07:16:59,370 --> 07:17:02,970
for the next two rounds of even getting money of any kind.

4011
07:17:03,690 --> 07:17:10,750
So I want GCC to understand when we had the first conversation when the first discussed possible

4012
07:17:10,750 --> 07:17:14,110
energy impact monies, that's we're not in the same world anymore.

4013
07:17:15,610 --> 07:17:19,110
Mr. Chairman, the comment is certainly acknowledged.

4014
07:17:19,330 --> 07:17:23,190
We are actively involved in those discussions with the Joint Budget Committee and well aware

4015
07:17:23,190 --> 07:17:26,470
of the Supreme Court decision that you're referencing in.

4016
07:17:26,470 --> 07:17:30,990
Hope to work closely with the county to do our best to maximize the Lafata county's opportunity

4017
07:17:30,990 --> 07:17:32,650
to get whatever money is available.

4018
07:17:35,190 --> 07:17:35,830
All right, thanks.

4019
07:17:39,630 --> 07:17:42,530
I kind of hesitate to get into this conversation, but we got to get into it sometime.

4020
07:17:42,530 --> 07:17:53,310
And that is, I think, high on all of the people in this room, at least in the front row's mind as well as in my own mind is how do we enforce compliance?

4021
07:17:54,490 --> 07:18:09,690
There have been times when we understood that there would be actions taken on GCC's part that would improve situations that either didn't happen in the time frame that we hope they would or they were the temporary row that decayed very quickly all that kind of stuff.

4022
07:18:09,690 --> 07:18:16,450
So this is, you know, I think for staff, more than anybody, but how are we safe?

4023
07:18:16,450 --> 07:18:25,550
How do we know that we, that if, if, you know, end of June 2016 turns out to middle of August,

4024
07:18:26,070 --> 07:18:30,590
2016, how, where is enforceability in this and how are we protected?

4025
07:18:31,950 --> 07:18:34,830
So, care to take that one, Ms. Rogers?

4026
07:18:35,670 --> 07:18:44,370
Yes, as previously discussed, we have the standard code enforcement process, but I think

4027
07:18:44,370 --> 07:18:51,910
as the board is aware from some of our other instances, it is somewhat of a blunt sort,

4028
07:18:52,870 --> 07:18:58,610
not quite as responsive time-wise as we would like.

4029
07:18:58,610 --> 07:19:09,850
So we do have this contract and we did pay particular attention to the enforcement provisions that are in the document.

4030
07:19:10,790 --> 07:19:23,510
So after we have gone through it, there is an opportunity where we would give GCC notice and they have opportunities to cure.

4031
07:19:23,510 --> 07:19:34,150
but we believe that contractually it is an effective mechanism, however, even that takes time.

4032
07:19:35,050 --> 07:19:53,490
One of the things that is available on occasion for counties as well is to try to seek

4033
07:19:53,490 --> 07:19:59,750
to get the activity to actually cease until the applicant can come into compliance.

4034
07:20:00,970 --> 07:20:08,270
We have not gone so far as to include that sort of language in the RIA.

4035
07:20:08,750 --> 07:20:12,730
It is something that what otherwise have to be demonstrated in court.

4036
07:20:14,010 --> 07:20:19,110
There are a number of elements that would have to be demonstrated by the county in order

4037
07:20:19,110 --> 07:20:26,730
for an injunctive relief to be given, and I can cover those if the Board would like, but

4038
07:20:26,730 --> 07:20:33,490
short of the use of that, or not using that single tool, we do believe we have brought

4039
07:20:33,490 --> 07:20:36,710
everything else to the table that we can from a legal perspective.

4040
07:20:41,150 --> 07:20:42,370
I guess I could.

4041
07:20:43,250 --> 07:20:45,550
Mr. Chair, along that line of questioning,

4042
07:20:47,970 --> 07:20:51,270
when I asked an enforcement question earlier today,

4043
07:20:51,270 --> 07:20:59,050
Council for GCC stated that we also are committing to put up a financial assurance, can you describe that?

4044
07:20:59,050 --> 07:21:03,670
Yeah, the financial assurance will relate to each phase of the improvement.

4045
07:21:04,630 --> 07:21:11,750
So, if they begin to undertake improvements, we would have a 120% security.

4046
07:21:12,510 --> 07:21:20,610
At that point, we would have to get the surety, the company that actually provided the bond to perform.

4047
07:21:21,370 --> 07:21:26,610
I've done that before, it's not, it's another task that's not that easy to accomplish.

4048
07:21:27,570 --> 07:21:33,130
However, while it provides a county some protection to whatever phase we happen to be in,

4049
07:21:33,470 --> 07:21:38,290
it's not a overarching sort of process.

4050
07:21:38,830 --> 07:21:43,270
You know, if it happens in phase five, that'll be much simpler because we have the bond

4051
07:21:43,270 --> 07:21:44,690
and then everything will be complete.

4052
07:21:44,970 --> 07:21:49,350
If it happens in phase one, all we have is the money to complete phase one

4053
07:21:49,350 --> 07:21:52,630
and we have problems with respect to the future phases.

4054
07:21:57,180 --> 07:21:58,060
Thank you.

4055
07:21:59,860 --> 07:22:02,960
Mr. Chairman, if you'd care to hear the answer from GCC

4056
07:22:02,960 --> 07:22:05,640
in terms of our interpretation of your question

4057
07:22:05,640 --> 07:22:07,940
of what enforcement mechanisms the county have,

4058
07:22:08,160 --> 07:22:10,680
I'd be glad to provide that as well at this time.

4059
07:22:12,870 --> 07:22:14,430
Thank you.

4060
07:22:15,730 --> 07:22:18,870
As noted before, there's the two alternative legal mechanisms

4061
07:22:18,870 --> 07:22:21,430
and that is either enforcement under the contract,

4062
07:22:21,530 --> 07:22:23,130
which is the section that the county attorney

4063
07:22:23,130 --> 07:22:24,030
was just referencing.

4064
07:22:24,030 --> 07:22:38,850
And then there's also your code enforcement mechanism and under the contract you have two mechanisms of enforcement one is by calling on the performance bond, which is by phases, but you also have the opportunity to proceed with a breach of contract or other type of action.

4065
07:22:39,430 --> 07:22:46,250
And I would turn your attention to section 6.2, which is all the remedies available to the county, which does include injunctive relief.

4066
07:22:47,030 --> 07:22:51,490
As as the county attorney noted, you start to prove the elements of injunctive relief to a court in order to get that.

4067
07:22:51,490 --> 07:23:05,690
But my point I think is that this draft of the RIA and I'm referencing the one that's in your packet not the alternative red line draft proposed by the opponents this afternoon, which we have not yet had a chance to review and which we have not approved and not executed.

4068
07:23:06,530 --> 07:23:16,530
But the draft that's in your packet is one that GCC agreed to and signed and all of the language in the remedy section is the complete and original language proposed by the county.

4069
07:23:16,530 --> 07:23:24,590
I mean by that is, although we discussed at different times and attempted to negotiate the provisions

4070
07:23:24,590 --> 07:23:28,590
which would reduce the impact of that, and we can the ability of the county to a force

4071
07:23:28,590 --> 07:23:33,910
that agreement, none of those discussions made it into the final version, and the final version

4072
07:23:33,910 --> 07:23:39,270
is the strongest possible original language that GCC has in fact agreed to.

4073
07:23:39,670 --> 07:23:45,130
So I would say you have really three or four alternative legal mechanisms, code enforcement,

4074
07:23:45,130 --> 07:23:49,190
enforcement under the contract, which includes the alternatives and jumped to relief breach

4075
07:23:49,190 --> 07:23:52,510
of contract as well as the 120 percent bond requirement.

4076
07:23:53,110 --> 07:23:58,490
In addition, I would add that there's an additional level of enforcement and that is

4077
07:23:58,490 --> 07:24:03,810
GCC's commitment as it relates to this issue and I recognize that there are obviously some

4078
07:24:03,810 --> 07:24:07,770
of the room who question that commitment, but what I would notice is that all of the conversations

4079
07:24:07,770 --> 07:24:13,230
that have occurred to date about things that the county would request that GCC undertake

4080
07:24:13,230 --> 07:24:18,810
have occurred in the absence of GCC having any assurances that it would receive a permit and be able to

4081
07:24:18,810 --> 07:24:25,230
continue its operations. If this permit is granted, it is granted with conditions, and it very well understands

4082
07:24:25,230 --> 07:24:31,170
that in order to continue operation, it will need to comply with those conditions. So I wanted to

4083
07:24:31,170 --> 07:24:36,310
take the opportunity to emphasize that issue for you, because it was very difficult for both the

4084
07:24:36,310 --> 07:24:41,710
county and GCC to have conversations about what mitigation measures it might undertake in the absence

4085
07:24:41,710 --> 07:24:44,790
of any certainty about whether or not a permit would actually be granted.

4086
07:24:49,790 --> 07:24:50,490
Thank you for that.

4087
07:24:50,630 --> 07:24:57,770
Thank you for that explanation or clarification and commitment, I believe, was your words.

4088
07:25:01,280 --> 07:25:08,540
Is there any, Mr. Davis, is there any concern or requirement as it relates to the condition

4089
07:25:08,540 --> 07:25:14,400
of the temporary pavement that's proposed under the RIA?

4090
07:25:15,020 --> 07:25:28,800
We had a less than favorable experience with a temporary solution over the winter and just want to know what assurances do we have that we'll have a better experience this way this time.

4091
07:25:29,640 --> 07:25:33,640
We have all the confidence that it will be done correctly. It will be permitted by the county.

4092
07:25:33,640 --> 07:25:35,960
a check report will be required.

4093
07:25:36,660 --> 07:25:39,300
It's a professional application of hot matte asphalt.

4094
07:25:40,180 --> 07:25:44,760
It was a crew to attempt to try to mitigate the dust, the application of the recycled

4095
07:25:44,760 --> 07:25:47,260
asphalt pavement known as rap.

4096
07:25:47,600 --> 07:25:49,780
That was basically a loose mixture.

4097
07:25:50,020 --> 07:25:54,420
They tried to put that down possibly with some binder, but they got caught late in the season.

4098
07:25:54,660 --> 07:25:55,900
I think it was mid to late November.

4099
07:25:56,680 --> 07:26:00,260
It was a cold, a cold wet weather was coming in, so it didn't take it all.

4100
07:26:00,260 --> 07:26:06,160
I would have been a lot less of a permanent solution than what's being proposed at this time.

4101
07:26:06,400 --> 07:26:10,040
In the lifespan of this temporary pavement is expected to be three years.

4102
07:26:10,700 --> 07:26:13,760
That's what I heard today at a minimum it would be three years.

4103
07:26:13,880 --> 07:26:15,920
You can base the design of that pavement.

4104
07:26:15,940 --> 07:26:24,120
Based on the anticipated axle loading so based on the vehicles that the pavement will have to support over the life of the pavement.

4105
07:26:24,120 --> 07:26:32,800
You can design that pass fault for whatever duration within reason on a new road typically that's 20 years, but

4106
07:26:32,800 --> 07:26:38,040
Three years would be acceptable and I think we have a fairly good base out there. There's a fair amount of gravel.

4107
07:26:38,420 --> 07:26:43,320
It's been driven on by heavy trucks for a number of years now. So I

4108
07:26:43,920 --> 07:26:50,480
Would expect we should have a high level of success with this interim asphalt map

4109
07:26:51,880 --> 07:26:57,520
And then on that, on the road improvement schedule, which I seem not to be able to put my hands on.

4110
07:26:58,660 --> 07:27:05,600
Is that section of the road to be finished by 2019?

4111
07:27:08,400 --> 07:27:12,680
There's three years, I've just tried to figure out three years long enough for what's anticipated.

4112
07:27:12,680 --> 07:27:18,620
I believe the road is anticipated to be completed in 2017 if I'm not mistaken.

4113
07:27:19,660 --> 07:27:22,680
So it basically would be recycled with following year.

4114
07:27:23,640 --> 07:27:26,100
Okay, thanks.

4115
07:27:34,340 --> 07:27:40,240
Then yeah, that's it for me on the road improvement agreement.

4116
07:27:40,320 --> 07:27:40,900
Thank you.

4117
07:28:02,270 --> 07:28:03,490
Commissioner, any further questions?

4118
07:28:04,740 --> 07:28:15,260
A request of Mr. Robbins for this evening's rebuttal if you could be prepared to discuss

4119
07:28:15,260 --> 07:28:21,740
how your findings in conditions vary from the counties, as well as the road improvements

4120
07:28:21,740 --> 07:28:22,120
agreement.

4121
07:28:22,620 --> 07:28:28,740
My initial look through this doesn't seem like you had too many changes to the road improvements

4122
07:28:28,740 --> 07:28:29,260
agreement.

4123
07:28:30,180 --> 07:28:31,620
Thank you.

4124
07:28:35,230 --> 07:28:39,370
I wonder if we need some time outside of rebuttal to talk about that.

4125
07:28:39,830 --> 07:28:44,790
I can see it taking each party wanting to make some comments on it.

4126
07:28:44,950 --> 07:28:47,510
Maybe we could just give 10 minutes each.

4127
07:28:47,810 --> 07:28:49,130
I don't know, it's up to you, guys.

4128
07:28:50,410 --> 07:28:51,230
That would be fine.

4129
07:28:53,070 --> 07:28:54,410
That would be in the evenings.

4130
07:28:55,270 --> 07:28:58,450
Yeah, maybe after public comment before rebuttal.

4131
07:29:00,250 --> 07:29:01,910
Thank you.

4132
07:29:02,030 --> 07:29:02,490
Mr. Murray.

4133
07:29:03,410 --> 07:29:06,330
If I'm understanding where you guys might be headed right now,

4134
07:29:06,330 --> 07:29:12,830
I'd like some direction before we go into a break from you in terms of what conditions we should be working on.

4135
07:29:13,090 --> 07:29:19,250
For example, you've heard us offer a 29th condition regarding a emergency response plan.

4136
07:29:19,630 --> 07:29:21,530
If that's agreeable, we'll come back with that.

4137
07:29:22,250 --> 07:29:28,520
I've also heard discussion around noise levels and I'm looking for direction if that's something we should come back with.

4138
07:29:29,370 --> 07:29:30,770
Compliance with other agencies.

4139
07:29:31,550 --> 07:29:33,290
That was another one.

4140
07:29:33,290 --> 07:29:39,330
Those are the three that stick out in my mind if there's others, that's what I'm asking.

4141
07:29:41,750 --> 07:29:50,030
I'm sure if I may, the request I made earlier Mr. Smith responded that probably not adequate time,

4142
07:29:50,910 --> 07:29:59,190
but to have some discussion of the suggestion of splitting the 80 trucks per day, 25 going south, 55 going north.

4143
07:29:59,190 --> 07:29:59,270
I really like it.

4144
07:30:00,740 --> 07:30:07,480
That's a really short time period, but that is a specific request that we've heard today repeatedly.

4145
07:30:10,340 --> 07:30:15,210
That's an additional issue that the commissioners would like to see further study on.

4146
07:30:15,680 --> 07:30:19,800
There's a mechanism in the code for requesting that that study occur.

4147
07:30:20,600 --> 07:30:26,540
It's something that should be directed at the applicant and then staff would, of course, review any additional study that came in.

4148
07:30:26,540 --> 07:30:31,380
But absent a study, absent more work on what 25 trucks

4149
07:30:31,380 --> 07:30:33,040
looks like going south.

4150
07:30:33,380 --> 07:30:35,580
I'm not sure staff is in a position to a pine

4151
07:30:35,580 --> 07:30:38,220
on the appropriateness of that either from compliance

4152
07:30:38,220 --> 07:30:39,760
and chapters 74 compatibility.

4153
07:30:40,700 --> 07:30:43,200
I mean, we certainly don't want to rush into any determinations.

4154
07:30:43,640 --> 07:30:46,020
In the additional 25 trucks going south on a road

4155
07:30:46,020 --> 07:30:49,420
that is not an analyze from that perspective would be,

4156
07:30:49,420 --> 07:30:51,340
well, it would be difficult to come up with that

4157
07:30:51,340 --> 07:30:54,200
in a couple of hours time.

4158
07:30:54,920 --> 07:30:55,560
So

4159
07:31:00,900 --> 07:31:04,580
then I guess I would, I would Mr. Chair, I would direct that question to GCC,

4160
07:31:04,700 --> 07:31:13,240
as Mr. Smith suggested, and any analysis or to Cross Creek.

4161
07:31:13,240 --> 07:31:13,980
I'm sorry.

4162
07:31:14,260 --> 07:31:16,340
Is it Cross Creek, Rancho?

4163
07:31:18,560 --> 07:31:24,360
Of any analysis, additional analysis that you can provide tonight.

4164
07:31:28,980 --> 07:31:33,660
There are a couple of things including, particularly, the condition that Daniel mentioned

4165
07:31:33,660 --> 07:31:42,800
that I brought up earlier related to compliance with other permits issued by other agencies.

4166
07:31:43,400 --> 07:31:50,820
I think that's a great idea, but I'm concerned by the difficulty that an hour playing a role

4167
07:31:50,820 --> 07:31:58,480
of forcing that may be and I would like an opportunity to seek legal counsel from our own

4168
07:31:58,480 --> 07:32:04,320
attorney and executive session before kind of I don't know.

4169
07:32:04,800 --> 07:32:10,620
I think when enough legal issues have come up that there's a note I'd like to get legal

4170
07:32:10,620 --> 07:32:17,040
counsel on an executive session and I don't know if you guys have the same sentiment and

4171
07:32:17,040 --> 07:32:26,460
If you do, I kind of feel like that's a kind of conversation that should happen after we've

4172
07:32:26,460 --> 07:32:31,260
heard all of the evidence as opposed to in the middle of, kind of I feel like we're still

4173
07:32:31,260 --> 07:32:36,840
in the middle and I'd rather do the legal counsel after we've heard everything, but what's

4174
07:32:36,840 --> 07:32:37,320
your thoughts?

4175
07:32:38,220 --> 07:32:46,320
Well, Mr. Chair, I would, if I'm hearing you correctly, you're saying to get legal counsel

4176
07:32:46,320 --> 07:32:53,060
on the federal and state permits that have been issued and how it relates to the county

4177
07:32:53,060 --> 07:32:53,720
process?

4178
07:32:55,200 --> 07:33:02,800
No, it's, that I don't think is legal advice, it really has to do with the legal implications

4179
07:33:02,800 --> 07:33:11,040
of us taking on basically if there were violation of say a permit with the state, it would

4180
07:33:11,040 --> 07:33:15,920
be in the state's choosing not to act, then we would have to take actions to determine

4181
07:33:15,920 --> 07:33:18,560
is that a violation and how does that affect the permit?

4182
07:33:19,080 --> 07:33:26,220
And that sounds like there could be challenges with our, you know,

4183
07:33:26,340 --> 07:33:28,140
that just sounds like there could be challenges with it.

4184
07:33:28,140 --> 07:33:29,860
I think it's theoretically a good idea.

4185
07:33:30,020 --> 07:33:31,760
In practice it could be a poor idea and I'd like the

4186
07:33:31,760 --> 07:33:34,740
legal advice on that particular matter.

4187
07:33:36,400 --> 07:33:36,920
Go on forward.

4188
07:33:37,820 --> 07:33:40,920
I wouldn't mind the opportunity to talk with you as well about the

4189
07:33:40,920 --> 07:33:47,400
improvement agreement, particularly I haven't looked at the modifications by given the nature

4190
07:33:47,400 --> 07:33:48,840
of some of your questions.

4191
07:33:49,760 --> 07:33:54,000
I think it would be beneficial to discuss that as well.

4192
07:33:58,120 --> 07:34:02,860
So are you guys having a meeting with our council would be an idea?

4193
07:34:04,500 --> 07:34:07,100
Because if we get a nap first.

4194
07:34:08,960 --> 07:34:14,300
And your recommendation is either following tonight's meeting or

4195
07:34:17,150 --> 07:34:23,170
that's my, that is what I was saying is not doing it right now because we're in midstream.

4196
07:34:25,390 --> 07:34:31,530
You know, I think we just have to take a hard look at calendars and when can when it's realistic to have it.

4197
07:34:31,670 --> 07:34:38,570
We have a board discussion time schedule tomorrow. I don't know is there anything on that that couldn't be reprioritized Joe.

4198
07:34:38,570 --> 07:34:43,750
A question as I'm aware of that agenda for tomorrow morning, and I think you would be able to

4199
07:34:43,750 --> 07:34:49,710
further that if necessary, we also have identified a time in the afternoon that you could also

4200
07:34:49,710 --> 07:34:52,470
continue the meeting to as well.

4201
07:34:52,470 --> 07:34:54,660
Yeah, I thought we had from 12.30 to three.

4202
07:34:55,830 --> 07:34:58,370
We've done only, have that blocked out in case the Board needs it.

4203
07:34:58,430 --> 07:35:01,730
But we could also meet in the morning if necessary.

4204
07:35:03,070 --> 07:35:05,890
We have a special business meeting in April 15,

4205
07:35:05,890 --> 07:35:14,090
And otherwise, as long schedule, I will be gone from 9 to 10 tomorrow.

4206
07:35:14,950 --> 07:35:20,370
OK, so I guess in all of my preferences,

4207
07:35:20,690 --> 07:35:25,010
to do it at 10 o'clock or 10, 15, whenever you would get back

4208
07:35:25,010 --> 07:35:28,350
and scratch the BDT if we get the board discussion time.

4209
07:35:28,670 --> 07:35:33,090
This is our highest priority, and I don't want to just change it

4210
07:35:33,090 --> 07:35:37,950
because we've got other regular business going on.

4211
07:35:38,310 --> 07:35:39,810
So I would support that.

4212
07:35:40,470 --> 07:35:44,690
So in all likelihood, then each party's rebuttal

4213
07:35:44,690 --> 07:35:46,510
would be occurring tomorrow.

4214
07:35:47,190 --> 07:35:48,950
Or do you want to hear the rebuttal tonight?

4215
07:35:52,890 --> 07:35:53,570
I guess, think.

4216
07:35:56,080 --> 07:35:59,460
Probably tonight, because then we would

4217
07:35:59,460 --> 07:36:02,320
have it for our executive session tomorrow.

4218
07:36:02,720 --> 07:36:05,080
And it sounds like our earliest available time

4219
07:36:05,080 --> 07:36:06,440
is going to be 10.50.

4220
07:36:06,440 --> 07:36:22,820
And what I'm envisioning is 10, 15 for the executive session, and then any, I guess, the

4221
07:36:22,820 --> 07:36:26,840
deliberation, the public deliberation, part of whatever, in the afternoon, as scheduled.

4222
07:36:29,440 --> 07:36:30,200
Is that all right with you, bud?

4223
07:36:30,820 --> 07:36:31,340
Yes.

4224
07:36:32,300 --> 07:36:37,300
And then tonight, before we close public comment, or before we close the hearing, we'll move

4225
07:36:37,300 --> 07:36:41,320
to go into executive session at 10 a.m., I think we have to 10, 15.

4226
07:36:41,320 --> 07:36:42,520
Yes, okay,

4227
07:36:44,630 --> 07:36:48,370
do we need a motion on that not right now?

4228
07:36:48,490 --> 07:36:49,230
No, I do it tonight.

4229
07:36:49,630 --> 07:36:51,380
All right.

4230
07:36:51,560 --> 07:36:52,460
Do that later.

4231
07:36:55,200 --> 07:36:56,900
Any further questions?

4232
07:37:01,940 --> 07:37:03,040
Seeing none?

4233
07:37:04,040 --> 07:37:04,460
Do we?

4234
07:37:05,180 --> 07:37:09,080
Can you are meeting and tell six o'clock to see me?

4235
07:37:12,980 --> 07:37:13,040
Yes.

4236
07:37:13,680 --> 07:37:16,340
We have the expert with the spirit.

4237
07:37:16,700 --> 07:37:17,940
Can you speak into the microphone?

4238
07:37:17,940 --> 07:37:18,940
Oh, I'm so sorry.

4239
07:37:19,740 --> 07:37:19,940
Yeah.

4240
07:37:20,580 --> 07:37:22,220
Danielson for cross creek ranch.

4241
07:37:22,220 --> 07:37:27,260
I'm just wondering, is there a chance the board would want to talk to or question Mr.

4242
07:37:27,380 --> 07:37:32,880
Hodgson and Altamaro, or should we let him go back to car at his springs?

4243
07:37:33,720 --> 07:37:34,700
That's the question.

4244
07:37:36,380 --> 07:37:38,740
And he make himself available by telephone if it is.

4245
07:37:38,740 --> 07:37:41,720
As long as we're asking that question, we have several experts here as well.

4246
07:37:41,880 --> 07:37:46,900
It does sound like you are heading towards planning on using the time you've set aside tomorrow

4247
07:37:46,900 --> 07:37:49,240
and not completing the hearing tonight.

4248
07:37:49,240 --> 07:37:53,280
So could you give us a ruling on that so we can make travel arrangements?

4249
07:37:58,300 --> 07:38:02,960
I guess I think you can expect to be here tomorrow afternoon.

4250
07:38:04,700 --> 07:38:17,480
Honestly, I'm not personally anticipating additional questions in terms of testimony but I don't want to say that's out of the question either because stuff comes up.

4251
07:38:17,480 --> 07:38:20,840
So I think I did inform you guys of the possibility

4252
07:38:20,840 --> 07:38:24,160
of a continuation till tomorrow about a week ago.

4253
07:38:24,160 --> 07:38:29,160
I'm sure we're looking for the best guidance we can get.

4254
07:38:31,760 --> 07:38:34,300
So you suggested if he was available by phone,

4255
07:38:34,460 --> 07:38:35,200
that's to you guys.

4256
07:38:35,600 --> 07:38:36,940
It sounds like that might be an issue.

4257
07:38:36,980 --> 07:38:37,880
That was from him.

4258
07:38:38,560 --> 07:38:40,000
Well, yeah, I don't know.

4259
07:38:40,120 --> 07:38:42,100
Maybe we can make the call this evening

4260
07:38:42,100 --> 07:38:45,880
after they finish their statements.

4261
07:38:46,160 --> 07:38:47,820
Because I kind of feel like, at some point,

4262
07:38:47,900 --> 07:38:48,720
you have to close evidence.

4263
07:38:48,720 --> 07:38:59,900
And my sense is that we would close evidence tonight, and tomorrow would be delivering deliberation which wouldn't require additional information.

4264
07:39:06,590 --> 07:39:08,570
I guess we'll.

4265
07:39:08,570 --> 07:39:17,690
I guess we'll no more after our meeting tonight on the final verdict of whether you can go back to Colorado Springs or not.

4266
07:39:17,690 --> 07:39:19,650
But it sounds more likely than not.

4267
07:39:20,510 --> 07:39:24,250
Related to that point, if I may, I would just note that

4268
07:39:24,250 --> 07:39:26,590
rebuttal by definition is the last thing

4269
07:39:26,590 --> 07:39:28,430
at the conclusion of all public testimony.

4270
07:39:28,810 --> 07:39:31,390
So if there would be additional public testimony,

4271
07:39:31,930 --> 07:39:34,330
I would anticipate we would request that we delay our rebuttal

4272
07:39:34,330 --> 07:39:37,010
opportunity until all public testimony is concluded.

4273
07:39:37,450 --> 07:39:38,690
Experts and public.

4274
07:39:43,580 --> 07:39:44,700
Thank you.

4275
07:39:45,720 --> 07:39:47,780
That'll be fine.

4276
07:39:48,840 --> 07:39:49,120
All right.

4277
07:39:49,120 --> 07:39:55,760
We will, again, continue our meeting until 6 p.m. this evening. Thank you.

4278
09:05:07,060 --> 09:05:08,460
Thank you.

4279
09:05:11,460 --> 09:05:12,100
Thank you.

4280
09:05:16,410 --> 09:05:17,110
Thank you.

4281
09:05:34,420 --> 09:05:40,960
Thank you. Thank you for coming. We're going to reconvene our meeting and take public comment

4282
09:05:40,960 --> 09:05:52,020
again this evening. If you work here earlier and you would like to make public comment, please pick up a pink slip from Jan.

4283
09:05:53,800 --> 09:05:56,900
And sometimes they're over by the sink in the back.

4284
09:05:57,000 --> 09:06:01,080
You can also fill out a public or a pink slip for public comment.

4285
09:06:01,660 --> 09:06:05,180
We will be limiting public comment to three minutes.

4286
09:06:06,260 --> 09:06:08,860
So please, please take the opportunity.

4287
09:06:11,210 --> 09:06:19,000
Do we have any public comment slips available now, Jim?

4288
09:06:32,760 --> 09:06:47,300
I'll try to look ahead a little bit on who is coming up and then who will be followed, so we can kind of get three people ready all at once.

4289
09:06:51,910 --> 09:06:57,350
First, probably comment this evening. We'll be Brandon Wattel, Wadell.

4290
09:06:58,830 --> 09:07:06,830
On deck, we'll be Dave Peters, and then Caleb Patterson.

4291
09:07:10,570 --> 09:07:13,890
Hi, I'm Brandon Wadell. I live at 9.588, kind of road 141,

4292
09:07:15,270 --> 09:07:19,370
Pestbriss 81326, you know, and our Wadell and wheels water hauling.

4293
09:07:19,370 --> 09:07:24,350
the county. I do a little water on 90% of the kind of roads here in the

4294
09:07:24,350 --> 09:07:28,550
Potter County. I'm going to show you that I'm a great monitor of the

4295
09:07:28,550 --> 09:07:34,110
conditions of our county roads with the new truck speed limits in place on

4296
09:07:34,110 --> 09:07:40,310
Canada 120. I believe it's as safe or safer than most county roads in the

4297
09:07:40,310 --> 09:07:45,230
Potter County despite the tight turns or narrow lanes. Nonetheless, I like to see

4298
09:07:45,230 --> 09:07:47,910
GCCC do what they're going to do, I think it's the right idea.

4299
09:07:49,370 --> 09:07:51,210
I feel that this, especially dangerous for residents,

4300
09:07:51,410 --> 09:07:53,810
county of the ones, they're straight and wide,

4301
09:07:54,250 --> 09:07:57,610
because people just motor down them with no regard to speed limits.

4302
09:07:59,270 --> 09:08:01,530
Why hasn't the county laid MagCloride this year?

4303
09:08:01,650 --> 09:08:03,770
On county of the 120s a question that I have.

4304
09:08:08,010 --> 09:08:10,290
When road and bridge work, county of the 120s MagCloride,

4305
09:08:10,430 --> 09:08:14,650
and we used water as well to mitigate the 15 to 50% of left over dust.

4306
09:08:15,370 --> 09:08:17,470
I can guarantee it was much closer to non-existent

4307
09:08:17,470 --> 09:08:19,330
when both resources were used.

4308
09:08:20,150 --> 09:08:22,830
I asked its kind of commissioners to put in place

4309
09:08:22,830 --> 09:08:24,810
a more aggressive MagCloride Schedule on

4310
09:08:24,810 --> 09:08:27,570
Canada at 120 until GCC completes the road construction.

4311
09:08:30,210 --> 09:08:33,610
I'm using Canada at 120 South, and my opinion is a viable route.

4312
09:08:34,510 --> 09:08:36,910
I travel it weekly multiple times a week,

4313
09:08:37,170 --> 09:08:39,870
year round with a 18-wheeler, like the 30-ton

4314
09:08:39,870 --> 09:08:41,010
coal hauler trucks.

4315
09:08:41,970 --> 09:08:44,710
I think if you're unaware, professional courteous

4316
09:08:44,710 --> 09:08:47,010
and law-abiding driver, then there's nothing wrong

4317
09:08:47,010 --> 09:08:50,730
with that road or intersection is exiting out on South Canada at 120.

4318
09:08:51,970 --> 09:08:54,970
The exit of 120 out of the highway has a long distance of

4319
09:08:54,970 --> 09:08:56,950
sideline and I think can be used.

4320
09:08:57,850 --> 09:09:01,550
Remember this is only a temporary solution if used as an option.

4321
09:09:03,750 --> 09:09:07,110
I think this is one box to check off in this when when one situation of

4322
09:09:07,110 --> 09:09:09,590
lying, you can see there are any truck minimum to sustain a

4323
09:09:09,590 --> 09:09:12,670
profit business margin while they continue to pay their taxes.

4324
09:09:12,670 --> 09:09:16,890
They're 12-cent per toned edition plus doing a 10 million road improvement.

4325
09:09:17,330 --> 09:09:22,130
I support the permit and encourage you all to find a way to make this work for everyone involved.

4326
09:09:22,890 --> 09:09:25,130
I can't stress enough the value of the word everyone.

4327
09:09:25,790 --> 09:09:26,590
Thank you.

4328
09:09:26,610 --> 09:09:28,790
Thank you.

4329
09:09:29,610 --> 09:09:31,710
Next is Dave Peters.

4330
09:09:39,380 --> 09:09:40,500
My name is Dave Peters.

4331
09:09:40,520 --> 09:09:41,680
I live in Durango.

4332
09:09:41,960 --> 09:09:46,260
I'm retired and previously was an executive for a major energy company.

4333
09:09:46,260 --> 09:09:51,200
My background is an engineering litigation and government affairs.

4334
09:09:51,940 --> 09:09:54,180
I'm here in support of issuing the permit.

4335
09:09:54,920 --> 09:09:57,480
If I were a commissioner, I'd be looking for the following.

4336
09:09:58,280 --> 09:10:00,660
Have the regulatory requirements been met.

4337
09:10:01,480 --> 09:10:04,520
The Planning Department recommends approval, so yes.

4338
09:10:05,180 --> 09:10:07,940
Will the permit add financial burden to the county?

4339
09:10:08,860 --> 09:10:14,540
GCC is generously funding road construction and maintenance far beyond what's reasonable.

4340
09:10:15,520 --> 09:10:20,220
Conversely, permit denial will cost the county tens of millions of dollars a year in

4341
09:10:20,220 --> 09:10:20,940
loss revenue.

4342
09:10:22,140 --> 09:10:24,280
Will citizens be adversely affected?

4343
09:10:25,340 --> 09:10:30,300
The majority of people strongly report or support retaining jobs in the county and ensuring

4344
09:10:30,300 --> 09:10:31,780
economic growth.

4345
09:10:32,580 --> 09:10:38,060
People living near the mind are impacted by many meetings with MNGCC.

4346
09:10:38,760 --> 09:10:42,520
The majority are satisfied with this current plan.

4347
09:10:42,520 --> 09:10:45,240
Is there an environmental impact?

4348
09:10:46,280 --> 09:10:49,540
Puts create dust in the past and will continue to do so.

4349
09:10:50,080 --> 09:10:53,160
However, there are desk mitigation measures in the permit.

4350
09:10:53,880 --> 09:10:56,500
The impact is definitely not overly significant.

4351
09:10:57,740 --> 09:11:01,480
I've done significant permitting in Colorado, Utah, and Wyoming.

4352
09:11:02,240 --> 09:11:05,260
Leplotic counties permit processes by far.

4353
09:11:05,520 --> 09:11:08,860
The most restrictive cumbersome and lengthy I have seen.

4354
09:11:08,860 --> 09:11:15,300
One other major measure that there is a problem is the fact that there are more by now more than

4355
09:11:15,300 --> 09:11:19,700
3,000, 300 pages of documents with this permit.

4356
09:11:20,300 --> 09:11:24,660
The initial EIA for the Keystone Pipeline was just over 3,000 pages.

4357
09:11:25,420 --> 09:11:30,880
The planning department needs help to refine the system and are taken independent party to help.

4358
09:11:31,480 --> 09:11:34,800
There are resources available at the state level.

4359
09:11:35,960 --> 09:11:52,140
If this permit is not approved, there will be several things that will be uncertain, but here are a few things that are certain, commissioners who vote against the permit will not be in office much longer, the citizens will see to that.

4360
09:11:53,080 --> 09:12:03,180
There will be a request to have the State Attorney General's office investigate the commissioners in the planning department. There are several irregularities and clear conflicts of interest.

4361
09:12:03,180 --> 09:12:09,820
A group of citizens will file lawsuits against the county and individual commissioners.

4362
09:12:10,100 --> 09:12:12,720
I would just love to sit in on the depositions.

4363
09:12:13,640 --> 09:12:16,700
So do the right thing and approve the permit.

4364
09:12:16,940 --> 09:12:18,560
We really don't want a big fight.

4365
09:12:19,120 --> 09:12:20,000
Thank you for your time.

4366
09:12:24,560 --> 09:12:24,600
Thank you.

4367
09:12:24,820 --> 09:12:30,660
Adderson and then Wade Ymore and Milo Gonzalez after that.

4368
09:12:34,120 --> 09:12:39,120
Kayla Patterson, 43 book side trail, they filled Colorado, 8-1-1-2-2.

4369
09:12:40,040 --> 09:12:45,620
First, I would like to thank the county staff, Planning Commission, GCC, and everybody else who had a part including this together.

4370
09:12:46,760 --> 09:12:54,940
Showing that local government and private industries can be effective and working together to resolve concerns and issues while still maintaining the core of our planning codes.

4371
09:12:56,360 --> 09:13:01,700
I would also like to point out that it has only been mentioned a few times that 1500 families

4372
09:13:01,700 --> 09:13:07,700
heat their home with coal from GCC King 2. As a kid, I was dependent on coal from King

4373
09:13:07,700 --> 09:13:13,940
coal 1 to heat my family's home. This is important to me and our community because coal is

4374
09:13:13,940 --> 09:13:18,420
an effective, affordable, and maintainable way to provide heat during our long winter months.

4375
09:13:19,540 --> 09:13:24,040
I would like to reiterate that there should be a simple decision based on the strong work done

4376
09:13:24,040 --> 09:13:29,680
by GCC and the county staff who have recommended approval to the requested land use permit.

4377
09:13:30,300 --> 09:13:34,780
It is apparent that the approval of the class to permit will benefit the neighbors, the

4378
09:13:34,780 --> 09:13:41,240
county, and GCC because it also gives everyone involved an opportunity to make sure that

4379
09:13:41,240 --> 09:13:48,080
the mitigations that have been mentioned multiple times need to happen and that the concerns

4380
09:13:48,080 --> 09:13:49,180
will be dealt with.

4381
09:13:50,020 --> 09:13:55,260
If I was your county commissioner, I would feel confident in approving the clause to land use permit.

4382
09:13:56,500 --> 09:14:03,720
To not approve this permit, this development is a vote of no confidence in the county planning commission and the county planning department.

4383
09:14:04,380 --> 09:14:07,360
And that the mitigations of GCC is more than willing to comply with.

4384
09:14:08,600 --> 09:14:16,760
The commissioner should vote to accept the county recommendations to approve the clause to land use permit and let the work on the road begin. Thank you.

4385
09:14:18,550 --> 09:14:19,550
Thank you.

4386
09:14:24,890 --> 09:14:29,290
My name is Wade Weinmore, 918, East Old Drive, Bayfield, Colorado.

4387
09:14:30,530 --> 09:14:32,950
I want to stay up front, this is my personal opinions.

4388
09:14:33,250 --> 09:14:35,910
I'm not the views of GCC, but I want to speak up here in front.

4389
09:14:37,350 --> 09:14:42,970
One comment I want to make, and every time I hear it from the opposition on foreign company

4390
09:14:42,970 --> 09:14:45,310
comments, it's a stick in my side.

4391
09:14:45,710 --> 09:14:49,410
I'm sure if we were to take a pole of hands right now, and there's a bunch of people here

4392
09:14:49,410 --> 09:14:56,170
drove Subaru's and towed us to this outfit, foreign companies, employing U.S. citizens on

4393
09:14:56,170 --> 09:14:59,150
this soil, just as GCC is doing.

4394
09:15:00,000 --> 09:15:06,200
That's for the character of the county. I'm a history buff, and if I'm not mistaken,

4395
09:15:08,220 --> 09:15:23,820
the wrangle come about in 1880, be a cold train company, supporting the mines in Silverton, and I feel that my job is not to change the character of the county, but to sustain and retain the character of the county.

4396
09:15:24,960 --> 09:15:32,840
As for comments on property values, I don't know about in the towns in the city limits of Durango.

4397
09:15:33,560 --> 09:15:38,700
I purchased a home seven years ago, estimated by a little over three.

4398
09:15:39,000 --> 09:15:42,840
I can guarantee you right now I can't sell it for maybe two ninety.

4399
09:15:43,600 --> 09:15:46,320
Because of gas and oil and industry leaving the county.

4400
09:15:47,160 --> 09:15:52,900
And I don't think it's going to benefit the property values if we cut out another industry.

4401
09:15:54,880 --> 09:16:00,720
Personally, like I said, I live in Bayfield, a little less than half mile north of 160

4402
09:16:00,720 --> 09:16:06,240
where the speed limits are 45 and 55 with rumble strips.

4403
09:16:07,580 --> 09:16:11,580
I can listen to those trucks, I do have a little sound barrier, I have a little hill between

4404
09:16:11,580 --> 09:16:16,740
me and that road and the only difference is it's not a gravel road.

4405
09:16:17,200 --> 09:16:25,360
So, if GCC is given the opportunity and this passes, but the asphalt in, these trucks are going to maintain the speed limit of 10.

4406
09:16:25,720 --> 09:16:26,780
Thank you.

4407
09:16:27,380 --> 09:16:30,900
You can already, I mean, you hit a school zone and you're doing 15, you know how slow that is.

4408
09:16:30,960 --> 09:16:33,520
These trucks are doing slower than the school zone.

4409
09:16:36,340 --> 09:16:37,660
That's about it.

4410
09:16:37,840 --> 09:16:41,840
I appreciate your time. I can guarantee you the county staff is not paid enough.

4411
09:16:44,310 --> 09:16:45,190
Thank you.

4412
09:16:46,810 --> 09:16:53,450
Milo and then Chris Dorne Camp and then Alan Crawford.

4413
09:17:00,320 --> 09:17:07,420
My name is Milo and I work for GCC and I can speak to my experience from other

4414
09:17:07,960 --> 09:17:08,320
minds.

4415
09:17:08,660 --> 09:17:09,420
I can tell you, I love you.

4416
09:17:09,480 --> 09:17:11,480
We are going to have a company of this caliber here.

4417
09:17:11,580 --> 09:17:14,460
One that cares for its employees, the community, the neighbors, and its stakeholders.

4418
09:17:15,580 --> 09:17:17,440
The first I would thank you for being here today.

4419
09:17:17,440 --> 09:17:19,860
I would take the county staff for all their hard work.

4420
09:17:20,140 --> 09:17:23,860
I think the planning commission, I think GCC, for an enormous amount of

4421
09:17:23,860 --> 09:17:26,920
concession is they are agreeing to in order to earn the recommended

4422
09:17:26,920 --> 09:17:29,740
approval of permanent from those previously mentioned.

4423
09:17:30,580 --> 09:17:33,580
I live here, I live here with my wife and children, many of the hard work

4424
09:17:33,580 --> 09:17:36,240
and people I work with also live here with their families.

4425
09:17:37,260 --> 09:17:39,800
That road is better than when I first started working thanks to the

4426
09:17:39,800 --> 09:17:40,500
minds' efforts.

4427
09:17:41,440 --> 09:17:43,500
Your staff has worked hard and so has the mind.

4428
09:17:43,780 --> 09:17:46,460
I think they both have done a good job of putting together a plan that tries to

4429
09:17:46,460 --> 09:17:48,780
make a challenge in situations as best as possible.

4430
09:17:49,880 --> 09:17:53,780
You have a recommendation to approve this permit for me to plan a staff and from the plan

4431
09:17:53,780 --> 09:17:58,840
of commission and now with my testimony as a family man trying to provide for us family

4432
09:17:58,840 --> 09:18:02,940
and speaking for a hundred other miners who can be here not because of work and are just

4433
09:18:02,940 --> 09:18:04,740
don't feel comfortable speaking.

4434
09:18:06,060 --> 09:18:08,400
We also would recommend you approve the Class II permit.

4435
09:18:09,280 --> 09:18:09,300
Thanks.

4436
09:18:12,290 --> 09:18:13,170
Thank you.

4437
09:18:13,670 --> 09:18:14,070
Chris?

4438
09:18:14,070 --> 09:18:14,830
Well,

4439
09:18:44,020 --> 09:18:45,320
my name is Chris Dorne Camp.

4440
09:18:45,400 --> 09:18:47,240
I live at 2, 2, 3, 4, 3.

4441
09:18:47,300 --> 09:18:49,500
County Road, D, 0.6 in Cortez, Colorado.

4442
09:18:50,520 --> 09:18:51,700
I was born and raised in Colorado.

4443
09:18:52,200 --> 09:18:54,960
I'm the undergarment of my superintendent, King 2.

4444
09:18:55,140 --> 09:18:57,960
I mean, so here in support of GCC energy

4445
09:18:57,960 --> 09:19:00,720
and their application for a class 2 permit.

4446
09:19:02,900 --> 09:19:03,400
Excuse me.

4447
09:19:03,880 --> 09:19:05,880
Obviously, the noise and dust are two of the major

4448
09:19:05,880 --> 09:19:06,820
sticking points.

4449
09:19:07,700 --> 09:19:09,660
I'd like to again point out that the best solution

4450
09:19:09,660 --> 09:19:12,080
is to move forward with the road and permanent agreement

4451
09:19:12,080 --> 09:19:15,360
and pave in front of the two most impacted neighbors.

4452
09:19:16,940 --> 09:19:19,200
There's been mention of GCC safety program,

4453
09:19:19,340 --> 09:19:21,380
one of the core philosophies of this program

4454
09:19:21,380 --> 09:19:22,740
is behavioral safety.

4455
09:19:23,520 --> 09:19:26,900
This by nature extends to all the facets of our life,

4456
09:19:27,180 --> 09:19:28,840
including our travels in and out of the canyon.

4457
09:19:30,800 --> 09:19:33,440
Another point to bring up is employed at the mine

4458
09:19:33,440 --> 09:19:35,240
or 19 first responders,

4459
09:19:35,800 --> 09:19:38,580
learning MT and one experimentic.

4460
09:19:39,500 --> 09:19:41,960
All of our forums have a mandatory 10 hours

4461
09:19:41,960 --> 09:19:47,100
first day training and all of our employees undergo weekly safety training.

4462
09:19:47,900 --> 09:19:53,240
We even recently responded to a car wreck on county road 1-20 that they had not

4463
09:19:53,240 --> 09:19:56,240
involved the mine. We were the first on scene.

4464
09:19:59,510 --> 09:20:00,770
And short, if you're going to have traffic

4465
09:20:00,770 --> 09:20:05,390
go by, we are probably the ones that you want. There are roughly a hundred more people that

4466
09:20:05,390 --> 09:20:09,130
would be happy to say the same thing if necessary. Thank you all.

4467
09:20:10,540 --> 09:20:12,360
Thank you.

4468
09:20:14,970 --> 09:20:20,590
Alan Crawford, and then Alan Hartford is on deck.

4469
09:20:23,630 --> 09:20:30,950
My name is Alan Crawford. I live in 1881, County Road 121 in Hespers. I have been

4470
09:20:30,950 --> 09:20:32,890
a permanent resident all my life.

4471
09:20:34,960 --> 09:20:38,440
Hey, Ghosts has always had coal mines in it. It was a coal

4472
09:20:38,440 --> 09:20:47,540
in country and if people moved in here, what not one coal mines, I don't see why they came

4473
09:20:47,540 --> 09:20:52,560
to this area. And with GCC energy being the last coal mine in the area, it's important

4474
09:20:52,560 --> 09:21:01,040
coal for the local people and several residents to heat their houses and stuff, supply

4475
09:21:01,040 --> 09:21:07,480
coal for the train for Al Harper. I think that if you shut this mine down, you're putting

4476
09:21:07,480 --> 09:21:15,000
several hundred people out of work in an area that has no other means of support and I don't

4477
09:21:15,000 --> 09:21:24,560
know why it would be beneficial to this county or any part of it to shut this mind down.

4478
09:21:27,150 --> 09:21:33,210
I have a small construction company, GCC has gave me quite a bit of work, helped me out quite

4479
09:21:33,210 --> 09:21:39,590
bit and for that I'm appreciative and I believe that GCC Energy has been over backwards to

4480
09:21:39,590 --> 09:21:45,150
do more than they're fair share to try to keep and maintain the roads and help the public

4481
09:21:45,150 --> 09:21:50,550
up there. That's about all I've got to say. Thank you. Thank you.

4482
09:21:55,560 --> 09:22:01,340
Alan Harper and

4483
09:22:04,790 --> 09:22:06,670
the Travis

4484
09:22:06,670 --> 09:22:12,930
county road 204 as everybody knows I'm the railroad guy.

4485
09:22:15,070 --> 09:22:15,890
I think we all should

4486
09:22:15,890 --> 09:22:20,630
about stock and energy drinks with all the vetting that's been going on for

4487
09:22:20,630 --> 09:22:24,950
the last two months on this issue. I couldn't be proud of how government

4488
09:22:24,950 --> 09:22:29,670
works, how the staff has worked, the negotiations to give and take is really

4489
09:22:29,670 --> 09:22:30,550
been important.

4490
09:22:33,150 --> 09:22:38,490
Our company has 240 full and part-time employees. I've given this facts

4491
09:22:38,490 --> 09:22:44,470
before. If we didn't have the coal here, we'd have to go out of state. It's estimated

4492
09:22:44,470 --> 09:22:50,970
we cost between $3,500,000 for us to do that. The only way we could do that is raise tickets.

4493
09:22:51,490 --> 09:22:57,490
If we raise the price of tickets, it's estimated it cost us as much as 10% ridership. Because

4494
09:22:57,490 --> 09:23:00,690
we're already the most expensive tourist route,

4495
09:23:01,030 --> 09:23:03,010
due to the fact of the nature of our lines

4496
09:23:03,010 --> 09:23:03,750
through the wilderness.

4497
09:23:05,290 --> 09:23:07,550
10% ridership would cost this community

4498
09:23:07,550 --> 09:23:11,350
about $17 million of economic impact.

4499
09:23:11,910 --> 09:23:13,990
So it's critical that we have this call.

4500
09:23:14,170 --> 09:23:17,430
It's a good call, low sulfur call, local source.

4501
09:23:18,150 --> 09:23:20,370
So from the railroads perspective, it's very important.

4502
09:23:21,430 --> 09:23:24,790
From a community in perspective, there's another 300 jobs

4503
09:23:24,790 --> 09:23:26,170
from what I hear from testimony.

4504
09:23:26,170 --> 09:23:30,110
there would be directly impacted plus many more indirectly.

4505
09:23:31,710 --> 09:23:34,850
Hard to believe it's my 19th season with the railroad.

4506
09:23:35,710 --> 09:23:39,170
I don't know where at the time go. I was just a young kid when I bought it.

4507
09:23:40,330 --> 09:23:43,310
But one thing I found out about Draingo was we're all family.

4508
09:23:44,210 --> 09:23:47,570
This is a community of family. We're all dependent on each other.

4509
09:23:48,390 --> 09:23:51,170
In fact, I really look at these communities. We're all railroaders.

4510
09:23:51,170 --> 09:23:57,210
We're all realtors, we're all lawyers, we're all farmers and ranchers, and we're all minors.

4511
09:23:58,110 --> 09:24:01,310
It's important when it affects one, it affects us all.

4512
09:24:02,150 --> 09:24:11,330
And it's so critical that we keep this mind going and operating, and that we do what we can for those

4513
09:24:11,330 --> 09:24:15,410
people who are negatively affected, and I think the county has made that effort.

4514
09:24:15,410 --> 09:24:24,710
So I appreciate the effort, I appreciate the staff, the negotiation, and the railroad is a hundred percent in support of keeping this mine operating.

4515
09:24:25,510 --> 09:24:27,090
Thank you.

4516
09:24:27,150 --> 09:24:27,950
Thank you.

4517
09:24:28,430 --> 09:24:29,470
Travis, all of you?

4518
09:24:31,600 --> 09:24:34,440
And then in that junior chair.

4519
09:24:37,460 --> 09:24:41,700
Travis, all of you are 620 Sandwich Court, Hespers, Colorado.

4520
09:24:44,320 --> 09:24:47,200
My house is the closest house to the mine.

4521
09:24:47,200 --> 09:24:56,760
I have been to more of these meetings than I can remember, but as I've watched things develop,

4522
09:24:57,180 --> 09:25:04,280
it reminds me of when my neighbors went to GCC with complaints and problems.

4523
09:25:05,060 --> 09:25:11,840
They had trucks that would, as they back up, the horns would go off and you could hear those at night,

4524
09:25:12,300 --> 09:25:16,940
and we went to them and we said, can you please do something about this?

4525
09:25:16,940 --> 09:25:21,640
They changed to a light system instead of horns and the problem went away.

4526
09:25:22,580 --> 09:25:31,960
They had a big exhaust fan that was in the dead of the night when things were really quiet and it's quiet out there.

4527
09:25:32,400 --> 09:25:33,860
You could hear the exhaust fan.

4528
09:25:34,440 --> 09:25:37,440
So we went to them and we asked them about it.

4529
09:25:37,520 --> 09:25:42,680
And I don't know what it cost them, but they put a muffler on it and the problem went away.

4530
09:25:42,680 --> 09:25:58,620
And as I watch these meetings and the give and the take, you know that it reminds me of those meetings that we had in our homes, where they were more than happy to go along.

4531
09:25:59,120 --> 09:26:08,700
And I believe that they have met everything that has been put in front of them in front of them by staff.

4532
09:26:08,700 --> 09:26:13,500
I think staff is done a good job, and I'm here in support of the mine.

4533
09:26:13,720 --> 09:26:14,920
Thank you.

4534
09:26:16,240 --> 09:26:17,320
Thank you.

4535
09:26:18,360 --> 09:26:19,380
Meet Chambers.

4536
09:26:24,980 --> 09:26:25,080
Okay.

4537
09:26:25,200 --> 09:26:28,460
Ginny Chambers, 49, Oford Drive, Draingo, Colorado.

4538
09:26:29,560 --> 09:26:32,880
I gave a long testimony back to the last time we did this.

4539
09:26:33,260 --> 09:26:41,080
And my big, my big support that GCC is all the tourism industry that's going to be affected.

4540
09:26:41,240 --> 09:26:42,360
It's not just the railroad.

4541
09:26:42,960 --> 09:26:49,260
It's the restaurant, it's the galleries, it's the hotel, so it was the marketing director for a local hotel downtown for five years

4542
09:26:49,260 --> 09:26:52,060
And I can tell you right now that all of our business came from the railroad

4543
09:26:53,100 --> 09:26:57,940
So when you're thinking about if you are not going to vote for this mind think about all these kids

4544
09:26:57,940 --> 09:27:01,800
These high school kids these college kids all of these people that work in tourism

4545
09:27:01,800 --> 09:27:04,340
I mean it is so much more than just the mind in the train

4546
09:27:04,880 --> 09:27:11,280
There's thousands and thousands of people that are going to be affected very seriously and their families and housing prices

4547
09:27:11,280 --> 09:27:15,520
are already so high here, to put more people out of work, where do you think they're going to live?

4548
09:27:15,600 --> 09:27:19,360
We're going to have more pan-handlers than homeless people on the street, and I mean that.

4549
09:27:20,840 --> 09:27:25,560
And another thing I just came from the grocery store before this hearing, and I can't tell you

4550
09:27:25,560 --> 09:27:30,160
how many people inside City Market that work there that use coal to keep their house warm,

4551
09:27:30,440 --> 09:27:35,920
and they're very concerned. So there you know, there you go, there's another industry city market,

4552
09:27:35,920 --> 09:27:42,880
the grocery stores so in my personal opinion if you do not vote in favor of this permit then you

4553
09:27:42,880 --> 09:27:47,500
might as well hang a signed at every entrance to La Plata County every road that says

4554
09:27:47,500 --> 09:27:52,800
La Plata County is closed for business and this will hit nationwide and international news

4555
09:27:52,800 --> 09:27:57,090
and it will affect this entire southwest region of Colorado. Thank you.

4556
09:27:58,980 --> 09:28:04,570
Thank you. Do we have any other public comment?

4557
09:28:07,320 --> 09:28:08,620
Thank you.

4558
09:28:08,820 --> 09:28:09,620
Come on up.

4559
09:28:17,650 --> 09:28:18,030
There's a commission.

4560
09:28:18,150 --> 09:28:19,110
My name is Tim Gallagher.

4561
09:28:19,170 --> 09:28:21,450
I live at 500 Sandrich Court.

4562
09:28:22,070 --> 09:28:27,130
A couple years ago, I drew the short strad our POA meeting and they elected me the President.

4563
09:28:28,610 --> 09:28:32,970
With the mission to find out what's going on with this mind, get involved, see how it

4564
09:28:32,970 --> 09:28:34,630
affects the property owners out there.

4565
09:28:35,210 --> 09:28:41,970
I was asked to serve on the citizens' visor repam, as a matter of duty to the citizens

4566
09:28:41,970 --> 09:28:45,030
and the people I represent I got on that committee.

4567
09:28:45,030 --> 09:28:50,050
Shortly thereafter, I was asked to be the chairman of that, and I was given the responsibility

4568
09:28:50,050 --> 09:28:53,070
to bring reasonable recommendations to the county.

4569
09:28:53,750 --> 09:28:58,710
In that process, our mission was to gather as much information as we possibly could about

4570
09:28:58,710 --> 09:29:04,490
every single aspect of this, including subside, with vibration, noise, traffic, and all

4571
09:29:04,490 --> 09:29:05,330
the other issues.

4572
09:29:06,010 --> 09:29:11,250
With the resources we had, we feel we did an excellent job of bringing forth reasonable

4573
09:29:12,010 --> 09:29:13,690
recommendations to the county.

4574
09:29:13,690 --> 09:29:18,790
It was never our intention to get involved with the details of the negotiations.

4575
09:29:19,850 --> 09:29:25,770
On exactly how many trucks per day or the decibel level or any of those sorts of things,

4576
09:29:25,870 --> 09:29:32,270
even the specific route, we left those details of negotiations to county staff in GCC.

4577
09:29:32,990 --> 09:29:38,270
And as I sat back and watched that go on, I was very impressed with, like was mentioned earlier,

4578
09:29:38,270 --> 09:29:44,810
the given take on both sides to get to a reasonable point that both sides could agree and

4579
09:29:44,810 --> 09:29:50,970
we bring this forward. This then after we brought all this out, we took it to the citizens

4580
09:29:50,970 --> 09:29:56,770
of the area for their final comments. Is this what you want in our recommendations? Yes,

4581
09:29:56,770 --> 09:29:59,670
and those were the recommendations that were presented to you.

4582
09:30:00,000 --> 09:30:16,560
Respectfully request that you not disregard those recommendations. It is, however, a little disconcerting to several of us that our newest neighbor has brought a big legal team in to try to change the will of the people.

4583
09:30:16,560 --> 09:30:25,220
And with a veiled threat of litigation, if they don't get their way, I submit to you, that there will be greater challenges.

4584
09:30:25,800 --> 09:30:31,500
If the will of the people, the majority of the people in haygulch is disregarded, yes ma'am,

4585
09:30:31,720 --> 09:30:40,800
if the will of the people is disregarded, and then the recommendations from staff and the planning commission are not accepted.

4586
09:30:40,800 --> 09:30:53,260
So, respectfully request that you accept the recommendations of the county staff, the county planning commission, approve this class two land use permit so we can all get back to work.

4587
09:30:53,660 --> 09:30:54,800
Thank you very much.

4588
09:30:56,320 --> 09:30:56,880
Thank you.

4589
09:30:56,960 --> 09:30:57,820
Excuse me.

4590
09:30:58,200 --> 09:30:59,920
Can I ask Mr. Gallagher a question?

4591
09:31:01,460 --> 09:31:04,780
Just, there's some ambiguity in your statement.

4592
09:31:05,360 --> 09:31:08,220
Our biggest, our newest, big neighbor or something along the line.

4593
09:31:08,300 --> 09:31:09,860
Are you referring to GCC or?

4594
09:31:09,860 --> 09:31:12,860
Okay, thank you.

4595
09:31:15,930 --> 09:31:17,730
Charles Page.

4596
09:31:26,040 --> 09:31:26,760
171.

4597
09:31:27,140 --> 09:31:27,820
Dlandling.

4598
09:31:28,400 --> 09:31:29,140
Draingo Colorado.

4599
09:31:29,600 --> 09:31:30,380
181.

4600
09:31:31,750 --> 09:31:32,670
Excuse me.

4601
09:31:42,840 --> 09:31:44,440
You're not the first.

4602
09:31:46,560 --> 09:31:48,020
Usually, you have two loud.

4603
09:31:53,700 --> 09:31:54,180
181.

4604
09:31:57,000 --> 09:31:58,220
Charles Page.

4605
09:31:58,440 --> 09:31:59,160
171.

4606
09:31:59,280 --> 09:32:00,220
Glenn Lane.

4607
09:32:00,800 --> 09:32:01,640
Draingo Colorado.

4608
09:32:01,980 --> 09:32:02,400
181.

4609
09:32:04,660 --> 09:32:05,800
I use my black.

4610
09:32:06,280 --> 09:32:07,740
So, usually it's 302.

4611
09:32:08,720 --> 09:32:34,980
One thing that I wanted to bring up that I haven't heard yet was one of the arguments about the mine that has been brought up before is that a lot of the drivers and a lot of the workers at the mine do not live in La Plata County, they live in New Mexico.

4612
09:32:34,980 --> 09:32:45,740
up. But as far as I'm concerned, they are our neighbors too, and the whole region here

4613
09:32:45,740 --> 09:32:56,540
is important. And we need to support this mind to support farming to ship rock, has for

4614
09:32:56,540 --> 09:33:02,960
us the whole region. And I think that's important, not to forget. Thank you.

4615
09:33:05,200 --> 09:33:06,400
Thank you.

4616
09:33:07,840 --> 09:33:11,320
Is there anyone else that would wish to make public comment this evening?

4617
09:33:13,100 --> 09:33:13,320
Yes.

4618
09:33:15,000 --> 09:33:18,320
You can speak and then fill it out afterward.

4619
09:33:19,900 --> 09:33:24,320
Kathleen Adams, 603 East, 9th Street, here in Durango.

4620
09:33:25,940 --> 09:33:30,900
I don't think there's anything I can say that you haven't already heard as far as the details,

4621
09:33:30,900 --> 09:33:32,680
the decisions,

4622
09:33:35,540 --> 09:33:42,340
who's asking for what, I have been involved with this as a friend of

4623
09:33:42,340 --> 09:33:50,000
the Maccus and the Mathias family, and the whole thing was theoretical to me until I

4624
09:33:50,000 --> 09:33:58,560
went out and sat on the Maccus port for about an hour and became speechless about the effect

4625
09:33:58,560 --> 09:34:07,820
of the well-being for these families that I've visited based on the amount of traffic and the

4626
09:34:07,820 --> 09:34:09,860
non-compliance that I've heard about.

4627
09:34:10,460 --> 09:34:18,400
I have not been able to keep up with the details of the day, and my understanding is that

4628
09:34:18,400 --> 09:34:25,320
no one is asking that the mind be shut down, but I feel like the compliance issue is extremely

4629
09:34:25,320 --> 09:34:31,780
important and that's followed to the T. I understand that's been a problem over the last few

4630
09:34:31,780 --> 09:34:38,180
years and I don't think that shutting the mind down is what anybody is asking for. I believe

4631
09:34:38,180 --> 09:34:49,700
that's right. So compliance is enormous and empathy also enormous. Thank you.

4632
09:34:49,700 --> 09:34:51,340
Thank you.

4633
09:35:05,400 --> 09:35:09,360
Huck Morris, 3402, Monterey Circle, Farmington, and Mexico.

4634
09:35:10,860 --> 09:35:15,860
I'm here in support of the permit for GCC Energy.

4635
09:35:17,020 --> 09:35:23,980
I am the terminal manager for U.S. transport, one of the trucking companies that all

4636
09:35:23,980 --> 09:35:26,640
out of King Cole 2,

4637
09:35:28,890 --> 09:35:35,730
GCC and the trucking companies have made every effort to abide by the rules

4638
09:35:35,730 --> 09:35:48,830
that have been laid down on County Road 1, 1, 20. U.S. transport has made an effort to update our

4639
09:35:48,830 --> 09:35:57,710
lead, bring in newer trucks, quieter trucks, quieter trailers, and where that is an ongoing

4640
09:36:00,400 --> 09:36:03,120
thing that we're doing right now.

4641
09:36:05,460 --> 09:36:10,120
GCC is in contact with the trekking companies on a daily basis.

4642
09:36:11,160 --> 09:36:15,040
Making sure that our drivers are doing what they're supposed to, making sure our trucks

4643
09:36:15,040 --> 09:36:20,860
to do and write, the traders are okay, if there's a problem, they will call us and we take

4644
09:36:20,860 --> 09:36:21,700
care of it.

4645
09:36:22,060 --> 09:36:26,380
We want to abide by everything that GCC wants and the county.

4646
09:36:29,070 --> 09:36:35,570
U.S. transport employee employees, 58 drivers, and farm farm eaten, not all of them do

4647
09:36:35,570 --> 09:36:44,670
coal, but I would say 80 percent of them haul coal out, and then we have 13 support staff

4648
09:36:44,670 --> 09:36:47,310
In Farmington in the office, the shop,

4649
09:36:50,800 --> 09:36:56,720
the DCC doesn't receive this permit and we have to cut back on everything.

4650
09:36:56,860 --> 09:36:58,500
We're going to start laying people off.

4651
09:36:58,920 --> 09:37:09,580
That not only affects the drivers, but also their families, the economy and Farmington, the economy and in Durango,

4652
09:37:16,430 --> 09:37:22,250
especially with the oil and gas, the way it is, unemployment is so high in this area.

4653
09:37:22,970 --> 09:37:26,490
If we have to lay people off, I don't know what we're going to do.

4654
09:37:27,730 --> 09:37:32,410
So I would recommend to the commissioners, please approve this permit.

4655
09:37:33,330 --> 09:37:34,650
Thank you.

4656
09:37:34,990 --> 09:37:37,270
Mr. Mayor, may I have a couple of questions, Mr. Chair?

4657
09:37:37,470 --> 09:37:38,050
May I?

4658
09:37:39,230 --> 09:37:45,730
I did ask a question earlier about the truck drivers and how many hours a day they're on shift.

4659
09:37:46,010 --> 09:37:51,330
And if you could fill a cylinder, the drivers are allowed to work 14 hours.

4660
09:37:51,330 --> 09:37:58,610
drive 11 hours and three hours on duty that it, the on duty status is considered loading

4661
09:37:58,610 --> 09:38:07,230
and unloading. So once there, and all of our trucks have electronic logs plus they have

4662
09:38:07,230 --> 09:38:16,710
cameras in the trucks. One facing out, one facing the driver so that we can try to change

4663
09:38:16,710 --> 09:38:22,890
are behavior. If there's something wrong, we can pull them in and say, look, this video, this

4664
09:38:22,890 --> 09:38:31,210
is what you did wrong. You need to watch that speeding, you know, using your phone, anything

4665
09:38:31,210 --> 09:38:32,670
like that.

4666
09:38:33,530 --> 09:38:39,350
Thanks, that's very helpful. You also mentioned quieter trucks and quieter trailers. Can

4667
09:38:39,350 --> 09:38:46,490
you give some examples of, we've purchased, just this last year, we've purchased close

4668
09:38:46,490 --> 09:38:51,750
30 brand new trucks. I don't know if you've seen them when you were up there on

4669
09:38:51,750 --> 09:38:54,050
kind road 120, they're the silver trucks.

4670
09:38:56,310 --> 09:39:01,310
Yeah, they're very nice. And we are updating our

4671
09:39:01,310 --> 09:39:08,170
fleet. Again, this coming year, we have some 2013's that we're going to get rid of and

4672
09:39:08,170 --> 09:39:15,000
purchase new ones also. And the trailers, we just purchased 10 brand new trailers just to

4673
09:39:15,000 --> 09:39:21,780
get rid of the older trailers. The ones that are about to go out the door.

4674
09:39:24,120 --> 09:39:25,020
They bounce too much.

4675
09:39:25,800 --> 09:39:25,800
Yeah.

4676
09:39:27,960 --> 09:39:28,940
Thank you.

4677
09:39:35,360 --> 09:39:39,040
Anyone else? Anyone else?

4678
09:39:39,040 --> 09:39:42,120
like to make public come in.

4679
09:39:51,300 --> 09:39:52,700
And we thought we'd be here all night.

4680
09:39:52,800 --> 09:39:53,820
Last call.

4681
09:39:58,010 --> 09:39:59,650
Mr. Chair for the record.

4682
09:40:01,770 --> 09:40:07,650
Prior to our break, I mentioned that there were 23 comments received on the county's website.

4683
09:40:09,470 --> 09:40:12,470
And our public affairs officer has looked at that.

4684
09:40:12,590 --> 09:40:13,950
I believe that one is duplicative.

4685
09:40:14,810 --> 09:40:18,790
And so there are actually 22 comments that will be made part of the record.

4686
09:40:18,790 --> 09:40:26,030
and again can be viewed online, if people desire, otherwise they will be printed out and

4687
09:40:26,030 --> 09:40:26,930
make part of the exhibits.

4688
09:40:33,030 --> 09:40:33,910
Thank you.

4689
09:40:37,030 --> 09:40:41,610
Is there any further business that we need to take care of at this time?

4690
09:40:47,610 --> 09:40:54,710
Guys, don't don't be mad at me, during our break I have more questions, but I really think

4691
09:40:54,710 --> 09:40:55,310
multiple people.

4692
09:40:55,590 --> 09:41:00,670
I think I think the thing is, we only get one bite at this apple, and I want to make

4693
09:41:00,670 --> 09:41:09,430
that we don't make guesses at information or not kind of thing and during dinner I was able to

4694
09:41:09,430 --> 09:41:14,550
kind of look back on my notes throughout the day and realize there were a few things that

4695
09:41:14,550 --> 09:41:23,230
were hanging that I hadn't been able to wrap up. So early on one of the first things we talked

4696
09:41:23,230 --> 09:41:27,670
about was the appropriate sound level

4697
09:41:28,290 --> 09:41:30,010
and trying to figure that out.

4698
09:41:30,170 --> 09:41:31,730
And Mike, I'd expressed concerns

4699
09:41:31,730 --> 09:41:41,920
that that 86 decibel criterion seemed a little uncontrolled

4700
09:41:41,920 --> 09:41:45,720
than I found out from the GCC sound guy

4701
09:41:47,760 --> 09:41:50,700
that that's an instantaneous measure of sound.

4702
09:41:50,980 --> 09:41:53,760
And one of the things that I think is important in the impacts

4703
09:41:53,760 --> 09:41:59,460
isn't about the instantaneous sound, but some kind of measure of continuity of sound in the

4704
09:41:59,460 --> 09:42:08,540
reports that we read it talked about background noise in rural settings and the HUD standard

4705
09:42:08,540 --> 09:42:13,720
is 55 at night and 50 during the day or something like that, but it seemed like the HUD standard

4706
09:42:13,720 --> 09:42:21,000
was something that whether someone wants to believe that's an appropriate standard for a rural

4707
09:42:21,000 --> 09:42:28,080
area versus an urban area, I'm certainly willing to hear that, but it at least seems to measure

4708
09:42:28,080 --> 09:42:32,580
the sound, try to capture it overall sound as opposed to instantaneous sound.

4709
09:42:33,460 --> 09:42:41,260
And so that being said, I think, first of all, I don't know if staff ever considered, first

4710
09:42:41,260 --> 09:42:45,760
I'll ask staff, did you ever consider anything other than the 86, and I understand that's

4711
09:42:45,760 --> 09:42:52,840
state rule for a maximum sound emitted say by a vehicle, but what about from the perspective

4712
09:42:52,840 --> 09:43:01,880
of trying to capture not just an instantaneous noise, but a measure of overall sound

4713
09:43:01,880 --> 09:43:03,400
that traffic makes?

4714
09:43:04,260 --> 09:43:07,840
You know, we're planning the department, so you're entirely correct.

4715
09:43:08,240 --> 09:43:12,560
We've drawn upon state statute as a reference point to inform our compatibility standards.

4716
09:43:12,560 --> 09:43:17,380
As I mentioned earlier, these are more qualitative regulations that we work with.

4717
09:43:17,480 --> 09:43:24,200
So we look for data where we can find it and states that she does indicate 86 is the maximum

4718
09:43:24,200 --> 09:43:27,260
emission noise level emission from a vehicle.

4719
09:43:27,720 --> 09:43:29,280
So that's where we have arrived at our number.

4720
09:43:29,940 --> 09:43:32,320
I think it's entirely within the board's discretion.

4721
09:43:32,520 --> 09:43:37,580
If you would like to entertain a different number, and that could be based on an average,

4722
09:43:37,580 --> 09:43:44,460
That is the day-night average that the GCC's wave engineering did model.

4723
09:43:44,580 --> 09:43:50,180
I believe that threshold was closer to 65, and that would be a question that I would

4724
09:43:50,180 --> 09:43:55,420
actually like to hear from wave engineering as to what would be an appropriate number if this

4725
09:43:55,420 --> 09:43:59,720
is something that the board chooses to possibly complement the 86.

4726
09:43:59,900 --> 09:44:02,400
I don't think we need to get rid of that level of number.

4727
09:44:02,620 --> 09:44:06,580
It could be a different number if you want to refine that acute.

4728
09:44:06,580 --> 09:44:13,880
a cute noise generation, but also I would be curious to know what would be an appropriate

4729
09:44:14,700 --> 09:44:16,140
average noise level.

4730
09:44:20,340 --> 09:44:21,940
So, Damien or you say something?

4731
09:44:21,960 --> 09:44:27,480
Yeah, I just want to add one thing, Daniels correct, and the applicant's professional that

4732
09:44:27,480 --> 09:44:33,320
deals with this would probably be able to inform the board more clearly, but at least my limited

4733
09:44:33,320 --> 09:44:40,700
understanding is that the 86's quite strict because it is a moment in time and you're collecting

4734
09:44:40,700 --> 09:44:45,720
the sound directly from the source of the truck versus over a span of time where it's being

4735
09:44:45,720 --> 09:44:53,740
averaged out. So if your concern is both, you might include both an average and that exact point

4736
09:44:53,740 --> 09:44:59,180
source, but that's something that I agree with Daniel. We should probably hear more from the sound

4737
09:44:59,180 --> 09:44:59,800
Specialist.

4738
09:45:02,580 --> 09:45:11,000
Okay. I have forgotten what the wave person's name is, but would you like me to ask Mr.

4739
09:45:11,000 --> 09:45:16,940
Nicole Kalsky to come to the microphone? If you could, please remember to answer those questions. Thank

4740
09:45:26,470 --> 09:45:28,010
you.

4741
09:45:28,450 --> 09:45:33,990
Jeff Kalsky, wave engineering. Would you like me to just address those general comments or do you have a specific question?

4742
09:45:33,990 --> 09:45:40,390
I think what Daniel summarized is kind of where I'm kind of what's in my mind as well

4743
09:45:41,630 --> 09:45:48,010
because 85 constantly might not violate that, but it could be annoying.

4744
09:45:48,490 --> 09:45:52,570
I know we're not talking about 85 decibels with respect to the trucks, but I still would

4745
09:45:52,570 --> 09:45:59,270
like to have a little bit better understanding of how we might measure kind of a cumulative

4746
09:45:59,270 --> 09:46:05,930
of impact of sound as opposed to just measuring discrete instances?

4747
09:46:07,890 --> 09:46:14,210
Yes, the nice thing about the state statute level of 8060 BAA for a single pass by 50 feet

4748
09:46:14,210 --> 09:46:22,250
is that it's easy to enforce. Someone can go out with a relatively simple sound meter, measure 50 feet from the center line of the road,

4749
09:46:22,830 --> 09:46:26,570
and measure how a lot of truck going by is, and do that from multiple trucks.

4750
09:46:26,570 --> 09:46:36,210
But you're right, that is just a single truck going by it, it doesn't give you any idea of the effect of multiple trucks going by over the course of 24 hours.

4751
09:46:36,630 --> 09:46:45,950
And that's why we used the 24 hour average, the day night average sound level to assess the impact on the residents along the road.

4752
09:46:46,710 --> 09:46:56,310
And that day night average, which is used by HUD to assess impact on residents, is exactly that of 24 hour average.

4753
09:46:56,310 --> 09:47:02,350
the average of 24-1 hour measurements with a penalty if you will applied to noise at night.

4754
09:47:02,930 --> 09:47:09,330
So they actually wait the night time noise heavier, recognizing that people generally sleep

4755
09:47:09,330 --> 09:47:16,170
at night and so it will actually raise that, any noise made at night tends to raise that

4756
09:47:16,170 --> 09:47:16,990
average, keep in the higher.

4757
09:47:17,810 --> 09:47:22,290
So that's why we use that and the HUD does not just use that for urban environments.

4758
09:47:22,290 --> 09:47:27,750
they use it, they have active programs and suburban and rural areas as well.

4759
09:47:28,290 --> 09:47:34,570
But that particular number, that day night average level, 65 is somewhat of a threshold

4760
09:47:34,570 --> 09:47:46,430
where they say below 65 is normally acceptable for residential projects and 65 or 65 to 75 falls

4761
09:47:46,430 --> 09:47:54,550
to a normally unacceptable range that is where mitigation can be considered to kind of bring it

4762
09:47:54,550 --> 09:48:00,030
into an acceptable range. So it doesn't mean automatically disqualified. It just means

4763
09:48:00,030 --> 09:48:06,410
mitigation is usually considered for that. The difficulty with using that day-night average level

4764
09:48:06,410 --> 09:48:14,390
as an enforcement mechanism is it's much more difficult to measure. Someone can't go out and

4765
09:48:14,390 --> 09:48:20,030
could go out and stand by the road for 24 hours. But you need to have, if you're going to leave

4766
09:48:20,030 --> 09:48:27,970
a sound meter there for 24 hours, you need to have the knowledge that a tractor didn't park

4767
09:48:27,970 --> 09:48:33,590
near the meter for an hour or something else. A dog wasn't barking next to the meter for an hour.

4768
09:48:34,230 --> 09:48:38,590
And there are ways to do that. You can have someone witnessed the meter or you can, we have more

4769
09:48:38,590 --> 09:48:43,670
sophisticated equipment that can record loud levels and we can tell if it was a dog barking,

4770
09:48:43,670 --> 09:48:50,210
things like that. But the point is it's much more difficult to enforce that kind of thing.

4771
09:48:50,390 --> 09:48:56,170
And then you then you have to back through, if you say your goal is 65 and you measure 66,

4772
09:48:56,610 --> 09:49:00,750
well what causes to be 66? You might have to go back and analyze each hour. See what really

4773
09:49:00,750 --> 09:49:11,310
causes that? Mr. Chair. Yes. Question for the witness. Can you describe the mitigation factors,

4774
09:49:11,310 --> 09:49:15,630
mitigation measures that you could employ to get to 65?

4775
09:49:18,370 --> 09:49:24,010
Yes, I can, a number of the mitigation measures are already in place.

4776
09:49:24,870 --> 09:49:29,250
The things that influence that day-night average are

4777
09:49:29,250 --> 09:49:33,850
number of vehicles, the speed limits, whether the roads paved or not.

4778
09:49:35,010 --> 09:49:36,190
I said the number of vehicles.

4779
09:49:36,190 --> 09:49:46,530
And then you can start to look at other things such as barriers, walls to block the sound, things like that.

4780
09:49:48,480 --> 09:49:49,540
Rob conditions?

4781
09:49:50,600 --> 09:49:52,460
Rob conditions such as?

4782
09:49:52,460 --> 09:49:54,220
Well, would that be a mitigation measure?

4783
09:49:55,720 --> 09:49:57,720
Proving the road to pay it versus gravel?

4784
09:49:58,960 --> 09:49:59,080
Yes.

4785
09:50:03,370 --> 09:50:11,130
And I would just add that while we have that, we realize the 86 DBA level is a truck pass.

4786
09:50:11,130 --> 09:50:19,030
by, the other things that affect the cumulative impact on the residents are, once you

4787
09:50:19,030 --> 09:50:27,470
have the sound of the passing by, how many trucks pass by, so we have limits on those already.

4788
09:50:28,530 --> 09:50:34,570
How fast are the trucks going? We have limits on those. So the other factors can be controlled

4789
09:50:34,570 --> 09:50:41,270
the monitor as well, so if you can control all the easily monitored things, then you are

4790
09:50:41,270 --> 09:50:46,610
essentially pushing towards control in the overall average that you're interested in.

4791
09:50:51,140 --> 09:50:53,920
Do you have a general idea of what the average

4792
09:50:56,000 --> 09:51:00,120
might be on this if it were to be averaged?

4793
09:51:04,200 --> 09:51:11,680
Well, our study shows we've predicted those averages at many locations along the road for many

4794
09:51:11,680 --> 09:51:16,080
different scenarios of number of trucks and all that, the 8100 and 120 trucks.

4795
09:51:17,740 --> 09:51:26,180
So it varies depending on the distance of the home from the road and the number of trucks

4796
09:51:26,180 --> 09:51:31,320
in area that we're in, things like that, so that's a hard question to answer it.

4797
09:51:31,320 --> 09:51:35,600
If you have a specific location, I can look into the report for that.

4798
09:51:35,920 --> 09:51:36,700
Thank you.

4799
09:51:41,430 --> 09:51:45,870
I don't know if it would be worthwhile to have to look at Mr.

4800
09:51:45,910 --> 09:51:47,530
Have Mr. I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

4801
09:51:47,650 --> 09:51:48,230
Last time was.

4802
09:51:48,250 --> 09:51:49,130
Yeah, for Colkowski.

4803
09:51:49,550 --> 09:51:50,070
Colkowski?

4804
09:51:50,170 --> 09:51:50,430
Yeah.

4805
09:51:50,810 --> 09:51:52,070
Have Mr. Colkowski.

4806
09:51:52,750 --> 09:51:55,630
You did collect that or model that data, right?

4807
09:51:56,450 --> 09:51:57,530
For a number of the sites along.

4808
09:51:58,590 --> 09:51:59,630
Yes, we modeled it.

4809
09:52:00,530 --> 09:52:03,350
It virtually every home along the road.

4810
09:52:03,990 --> 09:52:05,870
I think you'd be worth taking a look at that again.

4811
09:52:06,210 --> 09:52:09,670
I read it, but, you know, that wasn't really...

4812
09:52:09,670 --> 09:52:13,690
This is not my training, my non-back ground in this.

4813
09:52:14,310 --> 09:52:16,670
So what exhibit was that for what attachment was it?

4814
09:52:17,610 --> 09:52:18,130
Working on it?

4815
09:52:18,130 --> 09:52:18,270
Working on it?

4816
09:52:18,270 --> 09:52:19,110
Not up right now.

4817
09:52:21,170 --> 09:52:21,330
The.

4818
09:52:23,070 --> 09:52:24,590
Carolyn Whitey in for the record.

4819
09:52:25,190 --> 09:52:30,450
There are a total, I believe, a four different noise study documents in your packet.

4820
09:52:31,850 --> 09:52:35,210
The original way of engineering study.

4821
09:52:35,210 --> 09:52:41,090
A backup. The A-mini Martin study provided by the county is number 12. The way of engineering

4822
09:52:41,090 --> 09:52:47,250
study day to January 4th, 2016 is number 13. There's another A-mini Martin, which is

4823
09:52:47,250 --> 09:52:52,470
number 15. And I think there's one other way of engineering as well, which I'm still looking

4824
09:52:52,470 --> 09:52:53,350
for.

4825
09:53:02,360 --> 09:53:06,600
I may Mr. Chair, I just note that the study we submitted is item 73.

4826
09:53:08,620 --> 09:53:09,320
Thank you.

4827
09:53:09,320 --> 09:53:20,240
And the final wave engineering is 68 so all in your noise studies are 12131573 and 68

4828
09:53:25,800 --> 09:53:31,920
What I would ask then is that we just cut to the chase and

4829
09:53:33,020 --> 09:53:38,700
From your studies your wave studies can just direct us to which report you think would be most

4830
09:53:38,700 --> 09:53:40,260
succinct in explaining

4831
09:53:41,820 --> 09:53:50,200
The noise impacts to the existing residences that you looked at and how might pertain to this average idea.

4832
09:53:51,180 --> 09:53:54,580
The January 4th report is our main reporting.

4833
09:53:55,300 --> 09:53:59,900
We walked through and that was, which one?

4834
09:54:00,440 --> 09:54:03,600
January 4th is number 13.

4835
09:54:05,140 --> 09:54:12,900
So that is really the comprehensive report that explains the methodology, explains the 24 hours.

4836
09:54:13,100 --> 09:54:30,880
The average and at the end has a number of these con, a number of the graphic representations of the model, which it has noted on there that the numbers you see on those, all those pictures are 24 hour average numbers.

4837
09:54:30,880 --> 09:54:44,140
The we are asked after the planning commission approval to do a supplemental report to address

4838
09:54:44,140 --> 09:54:52,340
specifically the truck numbers and the road improvements that were in the RIA.

4839
09:54:53,080 --> 09:54:59,040
So that's what we didn't change anything, but we added to that to make sure that our predictions

4840
09:54:59,040 --> 09:55:05,100
we're consistent with those truck counts and rowed improvements. So perhaps if I walk through one

4841
09:55:05,100 --> 09:55:13,780
of those in the attack the figures on this supplemental report, which are the number 68.

4842
09:55:14,940 --> 09:55:15,680
That's figure,

4843
09:55:18,980 --> 09:55:20,420
figure 1 and 2.

4844
09:55:21,100 --> 09:55:23,000
Yeah, let's look at,

4845
09:55:27,120 --> 09:55:28,740
let's look at figure 2.

4846
09:55:31,640 --> 09:55:37,440
So this is attachment 68, figure 2, that's correct.

4847
09:55:37,440 --> 09:55:40,760
the date on the report is May 13th.

4848
09:55:40,900 --> 09:55:40,920
Right.

4849
09:55:42,160 --> 09:55:42,660
And so attachment.

4850
09:55:42,980 --> 09:55:44,820
Figure 2 is in the back.

4851
09:55:46,180 --> 09:55:49,720
It is a it's an aerial photo.

4852
09:56:02,430 --> 09:56:04,130
Where would we find the number?

4853
09:56:04,350 --> 09:56:07,070
Where would we find the designation as figure 2?

4854
09:56:07,330 --> 09:56:09,230
Is it in the or the corner?

4855
09:56:09,630 --> 09:56:10,730
It is packet.

4856
09:56:11,170 --> 09:56:11,900
Maybe or the white corner.

4857
09:56:13,110 --> 09:56:13,910
149 by.

4858
09:56:14,170 --> 09:56:14,470
All right.

4859
09:56:14,770 --> 09:56:15,650
Thank you.

4860
09:56:23,340 --> 09:56:24,340
So commissioners.

4861
09:56:24,460 --> 09:56:27,660
The ribbon that our software assigns cuts off.

4862
09:56:27,660 --> 09:56:37,400
figure, but it's, this is confusing. Yeah, it's packet page 1490. If you see that on your printed

4863
09:56:37,400 --> 09:56:47,360
set. It is. It's the second of the exhibits scenario five in RIA, in front of the C's East 80

4864
09:56:50,860 --> 09:56:59,400
So you have two ways to display the data on here.

4865
09:56:59,460 --> 09:57:01,160
One of these color contours.

4866
09:57:04,390 --> 09:57:08,590
And the second is if you see these kind of markers

4867
09:57:08,590 --> 09:57:10,930
with the boxes next to them with the numbers,

4868
09:57:11,690 --> 09:57:13,030
that's what we call receiver points.

4869
09:57:13,070 --> 09:57:14,610
So that's where the noise was modeled.

4870
09:57:16,830 --> 09:57:19,830
And so if you, um, this is the number that we call

4871
09:57:19,830 --> 09:57:28,350
The eastern half of the road, the county road, 120 north, to the far left, you'll see

4872
09:57:28,350 --> 09:57:31,490
a box with McU and the number 63.1.

4873
09:57:31,670 --> 09:57:38,170
So that's saying that at that residence, and these points, the individual points were put,

4874
09:57:38,890 --> 09:57:43,410
closest near the closest structure on that particular property.

4875
09:57:43,490 --> 09:57:49,170
Some properties are more than one structure, but if there's a single home, it's at the

4876
09:57:49,170 --> 09:57:51,870
with their multiple structures at the closest one to the road.

4877
09:57:53,090 --> 09:57:56,450
So for this particular scenario, they're 24 hours, is this 63.

4878
09:57:57,290 --> 09:58:01,350
And as you fall the road along, you'll see the numbers,

4879
09:58:01,550 --> 09:58:03,770
some of them, the houses are further way.

4880
09:58:03,850 --> 09:58:05,170
The numbers might be in the high 40s.

4881
09:58:06,130 --> 09:58:07,190
Many of them are in the 50s.

4882
09:58:08,410 --> 09:58:13,850
All of the numbers that are at a house are in this 80 trucks scenario

4883
09:58:13,850 --> 09:58:15,110
or below 65.

4884
09:58:15,110 --> 09:58:16,150
If

4885
09:58:21,780 --> 09:58:28,180
you were to go look at the additional figures, you'll see that everything is below 65

4886
09:58:28,180 --> 09:58:34,300
and the only, and that's true over the west side as well.

4887
09:58:35,180 --> 09:58:43,580
The only thing that gets above 65, just double check this before I speak.

4888
09:58:49,940 --> 09:58:55,760
If you go to, if you were to continue and look at 100 talks, there is one home at the 90 degree

4889
09:58:55,760 --> 09:59:02,620
turn, in fact, it's the home that we looked at earlier with the 90s degree turn going through it.

4890
09:59:02,940 --> 09:59:09,540
Because that home is fairly close to the road. That's, for 100 trucks that gets up to right at 65

4891
09:59:09,540 --> 09:59:14,020
for 120 trucks, it goes just over 65 to

4892
09:59:16,100 --> 09:59:17,820
65.9.

4893
09:59:21,770 --> 09:59:26,250
So that is without, that is what the mitigation such as speed limits and paving the road or not,

4894
09:59:26,770 --> 09:59:30,090
but if that is not with any barriers built or anything like that.

4895
09:59:30,090 --> 09:59:32,710
I was going to be my question. Thank you.

4896
09:59:32,970 --> 09:59:36,230
We looked at that separately and showed the additional mitigation that that would provide.

4897
09:59:43,400 --> 09:59:51,820
So then you're the next page 1491 scenario five with a 12 foot barrier wall.

4898
09:59:52,340 --> 09:59:59,120
How did you determine these numbers? 54.154.6.

4899
10:00:01,360 --> 10:00:30,380
So those, if you look in that figure, we just, we picked a couple of the closest residences we were asked to look at for the, the barrier walls and and and show that. So this is what the 80, 80 trucks and if you see that red line kind of running east west along the road, you see that heavy red line. That's, that's where a barrier might go. This is by far from any kind of final design.

4900
10:00:30,380 --> 10:00:32,920
We placed a 12-foot high wall.

4901
10:00:32,960 --> 10:00:34,800
We left a space for the driveway.

4902
10:00:36,940 --> 10:00:41,200
And we showed the reduction that a barrier might provide.

4903
10:00:42,720 --> 10:00:46,360
So in this particular case, we had the two kind of marker points

4904
10:00:46,360 --> 10:00:50,620
on there, one is 54.1, one is 51.6.

4905
10:00:51,840 --> 10:00:53,460
If we looked back at the earlier figures,

4906
10:00:53,580 --> 10:00:55,540
you could see that those were higher.

4907
10:00:55,540 --> 10:01:02,780
But, and you also see those contours kind of move closer to the road.

4908
10:01:04,440 --> 10:01:10,300
So, it's basically showing that everywhere behind that barrier, well, the sound level drops.

4909
10:01:10,420 --> 10:01:15,280
As you get further away, the barrier isn't as effective.

4910
10:01:15,880 --> 10:01:19,900
So, that's why there was some discussion earlier about the barrier, not being effective on the hill.

4911
10:01:20,840 --> 10:01:26,100
It's because the homes are already back on top of the hill and are already getting some

4912
10:01:26,100 --> 10:01:31,140
benefit of the shielding of the hill, the benefit, the barrier doesn't do much more for

4913
10:01:31,140 --> 10:01:32,000
them.

4914
10:01:32,560 --> 10:01:35,960
It's not because the barrier doesn't block sound, it blocks sound behind the barrier, but

4915
10:01:35,960 --> 10:01:39,480
it doesn't do the further way you get the less effective it is.

4916
10:01:39,560 --> 10:01:44,060
So it helps more for the homes that are closer, where it's most needed, which is good.

4917
10:01:46,210 --> 10:01:52,170
But, you know, if these were to go forward with these, someone decided they wanted this barrier,

4918
10:01:53,450 --> 10:01:59,010
we would go through a more extensive design process to decide exactly where an opening

4919
10:01:59,010 --> 10:02:03,610
for a drive might be, how forward, extend on each end, how high it would be, you know, those kind

4920
10:02:03,610 --> 10:02:04,110
of things.

4921
10:02:18,060 --> 10:02:22,380
That third answer, that question I had, thank you very much, appreciate it.

4922
10:02:32,420 --> 10:02:37,540
Mr. Chairman, if I could ask another question, this would be of staff.

4923
10:02:37,540 --> 10:02:45,500
And this is not mentioned in anything in terms of conditions and so on, but my question is,

4924
10:02:45,580 --> 10:02:53,860
if the permit is approved, what ongoing costs and time will be required of a Plata County

4925
10:02:53,860 --> 10:02:54,360
staff?

4926
10:02:55,040 --> 10:03:01,920
I notice somewhere in GCCP proposed that a Plata County staff would facilitate meetings

4927
10:03:01,920 --> 10:03:08,060
between the residents regarding mitigation, that I don't know whether that was something

4928
10:03:08,060 --> 10:03:14,840
staff envisioned as well, but I guess at what I don't want to unrealistically expect

4929
10:03:14,840 --> 10:03:23,600
is that if we were to issue permit under conditions and what ongoing work will you have

4930
10:03:23,600 --> 10:03:33,860
as staff as it relates to this permit, whether it be monitoring or facilitation as mentioned.

4931
10:03:40,640 --> 10:03:46,960
Commissioner, I believe you're asking as relative to the creation of the barriers for buffering.

4932
10:03:50,440 --> 10:03:58,920
Staff would be involved with meetings and the outcome of the applicant's interactions with the neighbor.

4933
10:04:00,080 --> 10:04:08,940
We also would be involved with determining if and when there would be a necessity for hiring

4934
10:04:08,940 --> 10:04:17,440
an additional professional, depending on how many scenarios there are that could lead to several

4935
10:04:17,440 --> 10:04:26,720
days per scenario of time working with the applicant and the neighbor and possibly the professional.

4936
10:04:31,150 --> 10:04:38,050
any other, I mean I wasn't meaning just on that particular issue, either there's some

4937
10:04:38,050 --> 10:04:42,970
contingent conditions that won't be fulfilled, you're talking about a way, all of the

4938
10:04:42,970 --> 10:04:43,230
conditions.

4939
10:04:43,510 --> 10:04:49,050
Yeah, I mean with respect to the big picture, I've been seeing you guys put, you know,

4940
10:04:49,170 --> 10:04:55,290
many, many hours into this project over the last couple of years, should I expect to

4941
10:04:55,290 --> 10:04:56,130
feed that in the future?

4942
10:04:56,470 --> 10:04:57,190
Yeah, I think so.

4943
10:04:57,190 --> 10:05:05,810
that there's going to be significant staff staff time involved with resolving the conditions and fulfilling

4944
10:05:05,810 --> 10:05:11,470
the conditions and working with the applicant working with neighbors in some scenario.

4945
10:05:12,670 --> 10:05:22,270
Definitely it involves more than just the planning staff and involves public work staff and it will involve

4946
10:05:25,030 --> 10:05:32,510
It's going to involve a significant number of staff parties and looking through the fulfillment

4947
10:05:32,510 --> 10:05:33,510
of these conditions.

4948
10:05:34,010 --> 10:05:35,710
There's no doubt about it.

4949
10:05:36,590 --> 10:05:39,390
I can't come up with a number off the top of my head for you.

4950
10:05:39,390 --> 10:05:48,170
I wish I could, but it's not over when you think it's over, let's just say that.

4951
10:05:49,250 --> 10:05:56,230
I would also like to address your question, and I think in many ways, once so, if the board

4952
10:05:56,230 --> 10:06:01,250
does eventually approve the land use permit, in some ways the journey has just begun,

4953
10:06:01,930 --> 10:06:05,130
because there certainly is monitoring, there certainly is our involvement.

4954
10:06:05,650 --> 10:06:13,350
I, as it relates to reviewing right of way acquisition, as it relates to conceptual design,

4955
10:06:13,350 --> 10:06:19,830
final design and so our staff will continue to be involved long-term, not only in the monitoring

4956
10:06:19,830 --> 10:06:29,190
of the conditions of approval, but as well as the future phases that have to be done to the

4957
10:06:29,190 --> 10:06:31,990
road to honor those conditions of approval.

4958
10:06:39,070 --> 10:06:42,290
One other question, another question that I have,

4959
10:06:44,970 --> 10:06:48,110
I'd like to get feedback on the, we talked about

4960
10:06:48,110 --> 10:06:58,570
early the Ag Dryup and the concern that we have specifically in the the Western part of the

4961
10:06:58,570 --> 10:07:07,590
county plan, but I guess my question is what good does it do to have prevention of Ag Dryup

4962
10:07:07,590 --> 10:07:15,030
as a priority if we just project by project a proof Ag Dryup?

4963
10:07:24,660 --> 10:07:31,400
Just a couple of other, I guess, competing issues that we certainly dealt with with this case.

4964
10:07:32,340 --> 10:07:37,000
As I'm sure the commissioners are aware, a waterite in Colorado is a property right.

4965
10:07:37,660 --> 10:07:44,660
The State Constitution allows an individual to change their waterite, which is often a prerequisite to act dry up.

4966
10:07:45,780 --> 10:07:54,120
Oftentimes, entities are individuals who have waterites, especially agricultural waterites, find it more profitable to

4967
10:07:54,120 --> 10:07:59,200
to sell or lease those water rights to industrial or municipal uses, it's a fairly common

4968
10:07:59,200 --> 10:08:00,360
thing throughout the state.

4969
10:08:02,120 --> 10:08:07,700
In terms of why we have the goal to begin with, certainly need to rely on some of my colleagues,

4970
10:08:09,140 --> 10:08:15,760
but I would like to articulate that the planning documents that we have are guidance for the Board

4971
10:08:15,760 --> 10:08:18,160
of County Commissioners.

4972
10:08:18,600 --> 10:08:23,300
As I'm sure you know, you do not adopt the complaint or the district plans, so they are

4973
10:08:23,300 --> 10:08:30,760
part of our regulatory documents, the formally regulated land use permits that have more applicability

4974
10:08:30,760 --> 10:08:38,220
for the planning commission, which does adopt those plans. I'm going to turn to my colleagues

4975
10:08:38,220 --> 10:08:43,860
if they want to say more on why we have the aspirational statement about preventing out of

4976
10:08:43,860 --> 10:08:49,820
gripes in the first place. One thing I can add that we've discussed in the past with the board,

4977
10:08:50,480 --> 10:08:58,400
If you were interested in making the AgGRIAP prohibition more regulatory, there are counties

4978
10:08:58,400 --> 10:09:00,820
who are doing that through 1041 powers.

4979
10:09:01,460 --> 10:09:03,600
And that's really how it would translate for us.

4980
10:09:06,250 --> 10:09:10,190
Homes off the most associated with agricultural drier, but the impacts of doing it in all

4981
10:09:10,190 --> 10:09:11,390
large-scale basis,

4982
10:09:13,790 --> 10:09:16,510
and as for all the reasons I stated, it's a difficult thing to

4983
10:09:16,510 --> 10:09:21,650
prohibit on its face even when those communities that are using Tim 41, it's about trying

4984
10:09:21,650 --> 10:09:26,650
to address the, uh, sometimes I'm intended, sometimes known impacts of doing such

4985
10:09:26,650 --> 10:09:27,610
an agricultural drive.

4986
10:09:32,200 --> 10:09:32,440
Okay.

4987
10:09:34,000 --> 10:09:34,100
All right.

4988
10:09:34,120 --> 10:09:35,420
Thank you.

4989
10:09:36,920 --> 10:09:39,640
Mr. Davis, you're not getting away.

4990
10:09:40,680 --> 10:09:46,640
The construction, this, this, this proposal says that there will be construction on

4991
10:09:46,640 --> 10:09:55,640
county road 124, presumably a fairly large number of months over the next few years, with

4992
10:09:55,640 --> 10:10:03,660
the truck traffic in addition to regular traffic, how is that going to be managed effectively?

4993
10:10:04,800 --> 10:10:09,820
Well, I would say if you manage like most of our other county road projects, county road

4994
10:10:09,820 --> 10:10:13,260
240, I think was under construction the better part of the 90s.

4995
10:10:13,260 --> 10:10:19,360
been a firm on a time, who was the past decade on 234, and county road 213, in the post

4996
10:10:19,360 --> 10:10:24,120
of road. Most of your construction projects are typically constructed under what we call

4997
10:10:24,120 --> 10:10:28,760
live traffic. You don't just have the luxury, in most cases, of just shutting a road down

4998
10:10:28,760 --> 10:10:33,240
while you reconstruct, you know, in some cases where you may have a short section or road and you

4999
10:10:33,240 --> 10:10:39,880
have alternate options. That's an ideal situation, but usually not a luxury we have. So we have

5000
10:10:39,880 --> 10:10:45,840
manual on uniform traffic control devices, it pretty much governs and dictates traffic control.

5001
10:10:46,080 --> 10:10:52,520
How that's handled, we typically work with the applicant any time they are required to make

5002
10:10:52,520 --> 10:10:57,700
road improvements. They have to submit a traffic control plan. We review it, we take a look at it,

5003
10:10:57,800 --> 10:11:03,960
and we work with them to make adjustments as need be. If there are variations or unanticipated

5004
10:11:04,520 --> 10:11:09,660
complications, I've heard school buses, I don't think that's so much a consideration here,

5005
10:11:09,660 --> 10:11:16,580
we typically work with developers to try and minimize the impacts and the inconvenience to the

5006
10:11:16,580 --> 10:11:24,020
traveling public during the AM and PM peak hours if that's an issue as well but you know all I can say is

5007
10:11:24,020 --> 10:11:30,740
well work with them as we do any any other project and most of our own county road projects this is an

5008
10:11:30,740 --> 10:11:34,760
issue we deal with as well. Thank you.

5009
10:11:38,050 --> 10:11:41,670
Another question from Mr. Davis if you want to take a break in your

5010
10:11:45,050 --> 10:11:52,210
The question was raised earlier, Mr. Davis, about why has the county not applied, made

5011
10:11:52,210 --> 10:11:53,650
core idea this year?

5012
10:11:53,930 --> 10:11:57,670
Can you verify if that is the case and if so, why not?

5013
10:11:58,090 --> 10:12:02,790
I get, quite honestly, I don't know off-hand, I can suspect our guys or our road and

5014
10:12:02,790 --> 10:12:03,950
bridge crews are aware.

5015
10:12:04,510 --> 10:12:05,210
This is ongoing.

5016
10:12:05,410 --> 10:12:10,910
We have mentioned to them over the fact that if this permit gets approved, there will be a

5017
10:12:10,910 --> 10:12:15,390
of section out there that would be paves and my thought is that they may be holding back

5018
10:12:15,390 --> 10:12:20,650
pending the outcome of this permit. It might be wasted dollars if they did go up by the

5019
10:12:20,650 --> 10:12:27,830
mag and she sees out there reconstructing a mile of gravel road in a couple of weeks so we could

5020
10:12:27,830 --> 10:12:29,290
be in a holding pattern.

5021
10:12:30,830 --> 10:12:31,830
Thank you.

5022
10:12:45,180 --> 10:12:47,840
As far as I know, I've got a quick asking questions.

5023
10:12:49,540 --> 10:12:50,640
I'm going to move to the answer.

5024
10:12:51,960 --> 10:12:54,160
I'm going to move to the Board.

5025
10:12:54,980 --> 10:12:56,920
Should we explain the process?

5026
10:12:57,540 --> 10:13:02,800
Well, my suggestion on process would be to formally close all public comment.

5027
10:13:04,160 --> 10:13:07,020
We can have the executive session tomorrow morning,

5028
10:13:07,020 --> 10:13:23,280
But to allow each party no more than 10 minutes to talk about Mr. Robbins' changes to the road improvement agreement and the conditions of approval and then do revital after that tomorrow.

5029
10:13:24,100 --> 10:13:31,220
That's my suggestion. I just think there's some things that might come out of the debate about the suggested amendments.

5030
10:13:32,060 --> 10:13:38,720
that Mr. Robbins advance that you might want to allow the parties to cover that in

5031
10:13:38,720 --> 10:13:40,120
the rebuttal if necessary.

5032
10:13:42,220 --> 10:13:43,420
Mr. Chair, if I may.

5033
10:13:44,080 --> 10:13:50,060
Mr. Lackle, that staff to analyze truck traffic going south, and to come back this evening

5034
10:13:50,060 --> 10:13:51,240
and be prepared with an answer.

5035
10:13:51,740 --> 10:13:54,760
We spent most of our dinner hour working through those iterations.

5036
10:13:54,760 --> 10:13:56,600
We can certainly speak to that now, if it's helpful.

5037
10:13:59,080 --> 10:14:06,200
Well, for starters, we tried to get constrained the problem, and we analyzed specifically

5038
10:14:06,200 --> 10:14:13,940
a can 25 trucks go on this other route while North County Road 120 is being addressed

5039
10:14:13,940 --> 10:14:19,140
while road improvements are being addressed through the phase project plan that you've heard

5040
10:14:19,140 --> 10:14:20,160
a lot about.

5041
10:14:20,160 --> 10:14:31,500
And for reasons I'll explain in a minute, staff is compelled to note that that option would likely not comply with the code, and thereby we can't support it, we can't recommend it at this time.

5042
10:14:31,780 --> 10:14:34,160
Let me go through our analysis with that.

5043
10:14:35,520 --> 10:14:39,320
One truck to the south, which trigger all of the same improvements,

5044
10:14:39,320 --> 10:14:45,100
percent to 74.91 has you have heard a lot about the North County Road 120 option.

5045
10:14:45,500 --> 10:14:48,460
In fact, the one truck going to the North triggers all of those improvements.

5046
10:14:49,320 --> 10:14:53,460
As you've heard us talk about them now numerous times, we have never waved those standards.

5047
10:14:53,640 --> 10:14:55,220
We have never deviated from those standards.

5048
10:14:55,680 --> 10:14:59,980
We're doing everything we can to ensure compliance with those standards when it comes to those road.

5049
10:15:01,000 --> 10:15:11,100
The one tool, the one point we've been able to work with is the timing of those improvements, and that is worked itself out in the road improvement agreement in particular.

5050
10:15:11,860 --> 10:15:19,620
But as stated, all the same improvements, although same requirements would be triggered if one truck of those 25 went to the south.

5051
10:15:19,620 --> 10:15:24,400
So, differing from what we are currently dealing with on the North County Rowland 20 option,

5052
10:15:25,060 --> 10:15:29,780
if even one truck went to the South even for a short period of time, the five-year period

5053
10:15:29,780 --> 10:15:34,000
when County Rowland 20 would be improved, it would require the same level improvements

5054
10:15:34,000 --> 10:15:39,120
and we are without the same tools that we've been relying on to analyze the North County Rowland 20 option.

5055
10:15:40,000 --> 10:15:45,260
I believe it's highly unlikely that the applicant would agree to the same level of improvements

5056
10:15:45,260 --> 10:15:52,440
for South or South County Route 120, especially if the ultimate intent is for all the trucks

5057
10:15:52,440 --> 10:15:54,060
to go on North County Route 120.

5058
10:15:54,440 --> 10:15:58,760
It's unrealistic that they would improve the road and it's certainly a question that you

5059
10:15:58,760 --> 10:16:03,240
can ask them, but it's unrealistic that they would improve the road for an in-term period of time.

5060
10:16:04,440 --> 10:16:08,880
Analyzing if this became a permanent solution and not an in-term solution would

5061
10:16:08,880 --> 10:16:13,680
quite literally be a new application, it's a pretty fundamental change from what was proposed

5062
10:16:13,680 --> 10:16:16,120
to the county to begin with.

5063
10:16:16,320 --> 10:16:17,860
So that's kind of the legal code analysis.

5064
10:16:18,100 --> 10:16:19,920
I think there's some deeper levels of issues

5065
10:16:19,920 --> 10:16:22,480
that my college can speak to as well.

5066
10:16:29,120 --> 10:16:31,820
Like it's in short, the Southern Route taking

5067
10:16:31,820 --> 10:16:35,960
county road 12 south to 16 to 11 19 to the state highway

5068
10:16:35,960 --> 10:16:38,020
involves a longer stretch.

5069
10:16:38,220 --> 10:16:41,540
It hasn't been fully evaluated as Adam just stated.

5070
10:16:41,640 --> 10:16:43,220
But it's a little over nine miles.

5071
10:16:43,440 --> 10:16:45,180
There's five county road conditions

5072
10:16:45,180 --> 10:16:47,460
in addition to the state highway intersection.

5073
10:16:47,800 --> 10:16:49,820
And I think some of those issues were noted

5074
10:16:49,820 --> 10:16:57,280
earlier today as it relates to the trucks entering and leaving the highway at that county road.

5075
10:16:57,660 --> 10:17:03,640
So those are a number of issues that would really have to be fully vetted and looked into which

5076
10:17:03,640 --> 10:17:07,540
staff has not done at this time because that wasn't the proposal.

5077
10:17:12,900 --> 10:17:19,300
Well, at this one of those technical items that Jim's talking about on southern route is a very

5078
10:17:19,960 --> 10:17:24,920
As you know, the applicant in September went through the variance process to the Board of

5079
10:17:24,920 --> 10:17:33,520
Adjustments and received an 8 tenths of a percent variance of 1 percent variance to the minimum

5080
10:17:33,520 --> 10:17:40,480
requirement for slope. On the other side, at least on one of the routes out, there's much steeper

5081
10:17:40,480 --> 10:17:50,800
Heels deeper slope would demand either redesign or different variants and then further processing.

5082
10:17:51,420 --> 10:17:59,160
Similar to what Adam said though, particularly our public process and compatibility analysis,

5083
10:17:59,480 --> 10:18:05,220
yielded all our conditions of approval and the RIA that you have before you specifically in order

5084
10:18:05,220 --> 10:18:09,200
to achieve compliance with our code and compatibility.

5085
10:18:10,680 --> 10:18:14,560
And so it would be an entirely new project for analysis.

5086
10:18:16,640 --> 10:18:19,560
And that would take some significant time

5087
10:18:19,560 --> 10:18:21,920
plus a revised application.

5088
10:18:23,820 --> 10:18:30,680
Finally, I do want to point out that perocule planning principle

5089
10:18:30,680 --> 10:18:33,960
and growth management is to concentrate impacts

5090
10:18:33,960 --> 10:18:40,500
to concentrate improvements, infrastructure improvements, reducing at large costs to the county

5091
10:18:40,500 --> 10:18:46,600
perpetually for spreading all of that infrastructure improvement out and having to maintain

5092
10:18:47,560 --> 10:18:55,320
it as well as concentrating the impact to secure the least impact of area possible. And that's

5093
10:18:55,320 --> 10:18:59,380
just a general planning principle and we relied on that when we looked at the applicants proposal

5094
10:18:59,380 --> 10:19:03,940
and that's incorporated with our presentation. I think Daniel did a very good job.

5095
10:19:03,960 --> 10:19:09,500
with concisely putting that forward with with with his presentation, but I just wanted to expand on that as well.

5096
10:19:11,890 --> 10:19:33,130
So final comment bringing our back to the proposed changes to the RIA and the findings and conditions to the extent any of those changes are aimed at a two stage process, 55 trucks, all the improvements occur, and then the applicant would be allowed to go to 120, those are certainly something that the county staff will review and be prepared to speak more about tomorrow.

5097
10:19:33,130 --> 10:19:38,410
but to the extent that it is that proposal or that idea is predicated on

5098
10:19:38,410 --> 10:19:43,570
diverting 25 trucks of the south. We can look more closely at it, but our

5099
10:19:43,570 --> 10:19:46,930
overarching comment is that staff doesn't support that approach because it

5100
10:19:46,930 --> 10:19:51,510
doesn't appear to meet the code and it would likely require a new application.

5101
10:19:54,640 --> 10:20:00,340
Thank you for doing that homework over dinner. And for those who weren't present

5102
10:20:00,340 --> 10:20:01,100
earlier,

5103
10:20:03,540 --> 10:20:10,320
the question was, or I guess the proposal was raised by one of the neighbors

5104
10:20:10,320 --> 10:20:19,300
of perhaps splitting the traffic allowing 55 trucks to the north and perhaps allowing

5105
10:20:19,300 --> 10:20:32,660
if the applicant's desire is for up to 80 trucks a day sending 25 to the south to minimize impact to folks going north, so.

5106
10:20:40,460 --> 10:20:41,000
Thank you.

5107
10:20:41,400 --> 10:20:47,980
I paid bail to publicly close to close the public meeting.

5108
10:20:49,930 --> 10:20:51,350
I don't know what is up with that.

5109
10:20:53,300 --> 10:20:54,660
are haunted today.

5110
10:20:57,440 --> 10:21:02,440
This time I'll publicly close the, or close the public comment portion of

5111
10:21:02,440 --> 10:21:10,380
our meeting and ask if there is any further discussion from commissioners. Commissioner.

5112
10:21:13,880 --> 10:21:19,040
I have another questions. Liberation, we're going to do tomorrow, I believe, and I'm still

5113
10:21:19,040 --> 10:21:27,080
unclear. Is your intent, Mr. Chairman, to hear from the parties tonight or regarding Mr.

5114
10:21:27,080 --> 10:21:36,280
province proposal or has there already been some kind of stipulation that we'll have responses

5115
10:21:36,280 --> 10:21:42,440
in the morning as far as closings and I don't know what I just need to clear it up.

5116
10:21:42,500 --> 10:21:44,900
Are we going to do closings tonight or wait till tomorrow morning?

5117
10:21:46,000 --> 10:21:48,460
I believe that we're going to do closings tomorrow.

5118
10:21:49,140 --> 10:21:50,420
That's what I would suggest.

5119
10:21:50,420 --> 10:22:00,600
Yeah. And I agree with that. So our plan is to have an executive session set for 10

5120
10:22:00,600 --> 10:22:10,340
15 AM tomorrow morning and shortly thereafter, which I'm not sure of the time yet.

5121
10:22:10,640 --> 10:22:17,400
Well, 30. So what I would suggest at this stage is that actually two separate motions,

5122
10:22:17,400 --> 10:22:24,800
One would be to go into an executive session at 10, 15 tomorrow and I can read the form of the motion for you on that.

5123
10:22:25,280 --> 10:22:31,040
And then the final motion of the evening would be to continue this hearing until 12, 30 tomorrow.

5124
10:22:32,520 --> 10:22:39,640
And for the public's benefit, can you explain why the Commission desires to go into executive session at Statshtarly, I'm required to.

5125
10:22:39,780 --> 10:22:41,100
And I'm about to announce that.

5126
10:22:41,100 --> 10:22:41,440
Okay.

5127
10:22:43,480 --> 10:22:50,160
One of the things we talked about a little bit earlier is I do think we need, at some point

5128
10:22:50,160 --> 10:22:53,960
say, okay, no more testimony, is that tonight?

5129
10:22:56,080 --> 10:22:59,320
Or will we, because everything tomorrow is going to be legal, right?

5130
10:23:00,180 --> 10:23:06,160
Well, with respect to Mr. Robbins proposal, are you guys expecting to have testimony or

5131
10:23:08,280 --> 10:23:10,840
or yes, ma'am.

5132
10:23:10,840 --> 10:23:18,520
Mr. Chairman, Carolyn White, my understanding was that we were to have two ten-minute closing

5133
10:23:18,520 --> 10:23:19,460
comment periods.

5134
10:23:19,580 --> 10:23:24,020
The first focus solely on the proposed RIA red lines and conditions of approval red lines,

5135
10:23:24,380 --> 10:23:29,100
proposed by Mr. Robbins, the second of which would be the final final overbottle.

5136
10:23:29,560 --> 10:23:34,360
And I also understood you to say that both the opponent neighbors collectively as a group would

5137
10:23:34,360 --> 10:23:37,780
have that opportunity as would staff, as would the applicant.

5138
10:23:38,580 --> 10:23:46,840
And so I think that's three times 10 times two total that you've offered to all of us

5139
10:23:46,840 --> 10:23:47,680
for closing remarks.

5140
10:23:47,840 --> 10:23:49,000
That's my understanding of it.

5141
10:23:49,720 --> 10:23:52,900
Is that consistent with other councils understanding of it?

5142
10:23:56,040 --> 10:24:03,180
So what it will basically go last, each party will have 10 minutes to address Mr. Robbins

5143
10:24:03,180 --> 10:24:11,800
proposed amendments, GCC, well, then the neighbors will have five minutes for a closing

5144
10:24:11,800 --> 10:24:12,460
and rebuttal.

5145
10:24:12,680 --> 10:24:16,440
The planning will have five minutes for a closing and rebuttal, and then you will have ten.

5146
10:24:18,780 --> 10:24:21,120
That is agreeable and understood by GCC.

5147
10:24:22,420 --> 10:24:23,780
For a final final.

5148
10:24:24,560 --> 10:24:30,020
In the parties, don't expect to need testimony tomorrow with respect to Mr. Robbins.

5149
10:24:30,300 --> 10:24:30,820
Red Line.

5150
10:24:30,820 --> 10:24:34,020
We intend to deliver argument not testimony.

5151
10:24:36,880 --> 10:24:39,760
So county staff is, county staff is the same.

5152
10:24:40,000 --> 10:24:41,440
We will do five minutes of closing.

5153
10:24:41,560 --> 10:24:44,340
I'm not sure we have much testimony regarding the proposed

5154
10:24:44,340 --> 10:24:45,160
red button.

5155
10:24:45,280 --> 10:24:46,400
We're the same.

5156
10:24:47,780 --> 10:24:51,480
And then I would move that we close evidence.

5157
10:24:52,580 --> 10:24:57,020
If you guys are done looking and we have received the public

5158
10:24:57,020 --> 10:24:58,700
comments that were written.

5159
10:24:59,380 --> 10:25:03,860
But I don't believe they're related to the evidence that we're taking now.

5160
10:25:04,960 --> 10:25:10,760
And I ask if you're ready to do that, if you're also ready to talk about the exhibits that will form the record.

5161
10:25:11,960 --> 10:25:16,460
Before we do that, I just don't know what time for the board to keep in mind tomorrow.

5162
10:25:16,480 --> 10:25:23,800
We have a joint governing body meeting with the city of Durango in this room scheduled for four o'clock.

5163
10:25:23,800 --> 10:25:28,620
So just reminding the board that we do have a hard stop at that time.

5164
10:25:31,160 --> 10:25:40,800
So what I'm handing out to the board is a list of the documents that are based on the board's express sentiment so far part of the record.

5165
10:25:41,360 --> 10:25:46,860
It's with the 77 attachments to the staff report, then there are seven additional documents.

5166
10:25:47,540 --> 10:25:51,400
The documents over which we are still waiting for a determination.

5167
10:25:51,400 --> 10:26:00,440
And there's a nine of them listed and I think that said, I don't know, I don't think you want me to read it.

5168
10:26:02,530 --> 10:26:05,410
The one through six we discussed in detail this morning.

5169
10:26:06,290 --> 10:26:12,910
Number seven is the written statement of Carl Mount produced by Cross Creek Ranch.

5170
10:26:13,350 --> 10:26:20,170
Eight are Mr. Robbins red lines and to the RIA and nine are the revised conditions of approval.

5171
10:26:20,170 --> 10:26:22,750
all those we might have to hold out on.

5172
10:26:27,230 --> 10:26:34,390
And just one edit to the title of this hearing dated 531 or 531.

5173
10:26:36,060 --> 10:26:37,320
I was making it yesterday.

5174
10:26:43,440 --> 10:26:48,760
We talked about some, we kind of put some things to the side this morning.

5175
10:26:49,960 --> 10:26:52,860
And as far as I know, none of them became relevant.

5176
10:26:55,060 --> 10:26:59,120
So I would, and we had no motions from anybody to bring them back in because they were

5177
10:26:59,120 --> 10:27:07,740
off to the side unless they were relevant. So my position is that we not actually even the number

5178
10:27:07,740 --> 10:27:11,760
seven that came in from Mr. Mount, we made the assimilated termination, I believe that was

5179
10:27:11,760 --> 10:27:21,980
related to waste rock and that. So I still I guess my thought is that one through seven still

5180
10:27:21,980 --> 10:27:28,060
still aren't relevant to our consideration and would not be appropriate as exhibits.

5181
10:27:34,740 --> 10:27:42,860
As to the issue of waste disposal, I think it is something that this commission has to take on

5182
10:27:42,860 --> 10:27:46,840
because I think your county land use code requires it.

5183
10:27:47,420 --> 10:27:53,440
As the Mr. Mount, I guess all I'd say is I saw all kinds of people today disappear

5184
10:27:53,440 --> 10:28:00,000
and when they were gone, they left behind a note and we read it in and nobody said,

5185
10:28:00,260 --> 10:28:06,680
well, that one's relevant, that one's not relevant, Mr. Mount was here all morning with us

5186
10:28:07,280 --> 10:28:13,640
ready to talk on the phone, but because we were postponed to this afternoon is the only reason

5187
10:28:13,640 --> 10:28:17,860
that's in writing. If he had testified in person, I don't think you would have stricken him down.

5188
10:28:17,860 --> 10:28:24,700
So I think he's in a little different category because the board has been very open to hearing

5189
10:28:24,700 --> 10:28:30,400
from people who weren't able to be here and taking things on pink sheets that people

5190
10:28:30,400 --> 10:28:30,480
were there.

5191
10:28:30,500 --> 10:28:32,800
Is it correct that he's your consultant though?

5192
10:28:33,000 --> 10:28:35,360
He's not a member of the public and neighbor.

5193
10:28:35,520 --> 10:28:41,320
He's not a member, but you know, I suppose he has a constitutional right to address this

5194
10:28:41,320 --> 10:28:45,220
board and we have a constitutional right to bring him here.

5195
10:28:45,220 --> 10:28:49,660
That's my point. I've made my point and I don't want to take any more of your time.

5196
10:28:49,900 --> 10:28:50,560
I should have a question.

5197
10:28:50,840 --> 10:28:55,100
There was there were things in the file already related to Mr. Mount.

5198
10:28:55,560 --> 10:28:58,780
I recall seeing his name and reading it and so on.

5199
10:29:02,340 --> 10:29:07,360
Like other experts have testified here, he wanted to testify that he couldn't testify

5200
10:29:07,360 --> 10:29:11,680
by phone because we didn't get our turns. That's all.

5201
10:29:11,680 --> 10:29:18,620
I would support admitting it since he was prepared to testify.

5202
10:29:19,040 --> 10:29:20,980
I'm fine admitting it.

5203
10:29:21,320 --> 10:29:25,360
I think that it doesn't really, but.

5204
10:29:30,840 --> 10:29:40,920
If it is allowed, I think then you're going to also have to allow items five and six as

5205
10:29:40,920 --> 10:29:43,860
I was all also relate to King I

5206
10:29:46,230 --> 10:29:51,850
was the issue King I was the issue King I was the issue rock if that solid waste removal from King II

5207
10:29:52,770 --> 10:29:53,870
Same issue

5208
10:29:56,000 --> 10:29:59,980
Chairman if we could be heard on this issue we we do object allowing that up

5209
10:30:00,000 --> 10:30:04,240
But in some of the record, we weren't aware, actually, that telephonic testimony was permitted. And Mr.

5210
10:30:04,280 --> 10:30:10,040
Mount was not President and person. He was going to be available by telephone. You know, we heard this

5211
10:30:10,040 --> 10:30:14,020
before from the opponent's group that if they had known this sort of been an issue, they would

5212
10:30:14,020 --> 10:30:18,400
have brought their experts here. They said that at the Planning Commission. This is an issue that not

5213
10:30:18,400 --> 10:30:23,520
only they knew about, but they planned to raise. And that's why we were forced to bring our experts and

5214
10:30:23,520 --> 10:30:28,520
produce our responses on this topic, so we could be prepared to address it. So we would object to it

5215
10:30:28,520 --> 10:30:32,720
being included, but if you decide to include it, we certainly feel that all of the other

5216
10:30:32,720 --> 10:30:37,160
documents we propose to include on that subject ought to also be included for the same

5217
10:30:37,160 --> 10:30:37,620
reason.

5218
10:30:38,860 --> 10:30:44,280
If I may miscute, Chair, just for the record, we've got a fistful of emails from the staff

5219
10:30:44,280 --> 10:30:49,380
telling us that having tested telephone testimony is just fine and that we could plan on

5220
10:30:49,380 --> 10:30:50,440
doing it.

5221
10:30:50,680 --> 10:30:51,380
So this is not clear.

5222
10:30:51,380 --> 10:30:54,440
I don't think we want to get a rebut argument over what it is.

5223
10:30:54,520 --> 10:30:56,840
All of the phone he is allowed to do that.

5224
10:30:56,840 --> 10:31:11,040
It's just the relevancy of the topic of the King-1 mind-waste and whether the board wants, I don't know that you've heard other testimony on it so you what you would really have is just the written testimony

5225
10:31:12,320 --> 10:31:16,280
and again it relates which condition is it out of

5226
10:31:23,200 --> 10:31:27,200
So I guess what I would encourage the board to do is look at condition 2

5227
10:31:27,200 --> 10:31:37,660
to decide whether you need any testimony in order to support that, or if you wish to

5228
10:31:37,660 --> 10:31:40,080
amend it because you disagree with the condition.

5229
10:31:40,960 --> 10:31:46,200
I can clarify, can this in two just requires GCC to provide reports and accounting

5230
10:31:46,200 --> 10:31:54,280
if you will of the waste rock that is exiting, or King to coal mine?

5231
10:31:54,880 --> 10:31:59,500
More important, I think, to this would be finding number seven, which specifically knows, and

5232
10:31:59,500 --> 10:32:04,480
this is proposed by staff that this land is from a doesn't contemplate or include King

5233
10:32:04,480 --> 10:32:05,260
One coal mine.

5234
10:32:06,260 --> 10:32:10,740
It has nothing to do with county staff and not believing that what is transpiring at King One

5235
10:32:10,740 --> 10:32:11,900
coal mine is not important.

5236
10:32:12,240 --> 10:32:12,720
We do.

5237
10:32:13,180 --> 10:32:19,060
We intend to deal with that situation, likely as soon as hearing on King Two coal mines

5238
10:32:19,060 --> 10:32:24,980
comments, but we have for quite some time years even analyzed that as a separate and distinct

5239
10:32:24,980 --> 10:32:26,080
land use.

5240
10:32:29,520 --> 10:32:37,220
But it is an activity that is utilizing county road 120.

5241
10:32:38,840 --> 10:32:45,980
It is material taken from King 2 coal mine to disposal locations.

5242
10:32:45,980 --> 10:32:52,340
is material taking from King 2 coal mine and being disposed of at King 1 coal mine.

5243
10:32:52,720 --> 10:32:59,380
In the same way that many commercial uses in the Plata County have commercial trash service,

5244
10:32:59,680 --> 10:33:03,120
where somebody comes and picks up their trash and then takes it to another location.

5245
10:33:03,400 --> 10:33:07,460
We do not consider a permit where that trash is going to,

5246
10:33:07,480 --> 10:33:11,820
and ensure that it's a permitted land fill is part of any other commercial operation.

5247
10:33:11,820 --> 10:33:13,940
and it's essentially the same thing here.

5248
10:33:13,960 --> 10:33:16,800
If the waste rock from King II coal mine,

5249
10:33:17,760 --> 10:33:18,840
it's being taken off the side

5250
10:33:18,840 --> 10:33:20,760
and being taken to another location.

5251
10:33:20,900 --> 10:33:23,680
If that other location does not have the requisite land use permit,

5252
10:33:23,900 --> 10:33:26,280
we certainly will deal with it through a code enforcement perspective.

5253
10:33:27,900 --> 10:33:30,380
And that is absolutely our intent.

5254
10:33:30,520 --> 10:33:32,480
We've had these conversations with the applicant.

5255
10:33:32,620 --> 10:33:34,820
I think they're well aware that county staff

5256
10:33:34,820 --> 10:33:36,940
intends to address that situation

5257
10:33:36,940 --> 10:33:39,460
as soon as these proceedings conclude.

5258
10:33:47,870 --> 10:33:48,190
Council?

5259
10:33:53,300 --> 10:33:53,820
discussion.

5260
10:33:58,490 --> 10:34:01,590
Yes, my question is seeking legal counsel on this matter.

5261
10:34:05,090 --> 10:34:07,910
I know this

5262
10:34:07,910 --> 10:34:11,930
might meet with some jurors, but I'm siding with the planning department. I do

5263
10:34:11,930 --> 10:34:18,590
think it's an analogy. I've used myself that with the, you know, the waste we, it

5264
10:34:18,590 --> 10:34:25,010
is a separate issue. As far as they're using kind of red 120, Jim, do you know

5265
10:34:25,010 --> 10:34:30,770
those track counts also included in the, how are we calculating those in the numbers?

5266
10:34:32,010 --> 10:34:37,310
Yes. Mr. Chairman, I'm informed by our traffic engineer that the traffic counts

5267
10:34:37,310 --> 10:34:43,230
related to the transfer of materials from King Tudikin 1 are included in the traffic numbers

5268
10:34:43,230 --> 10:34:48,570
analyzed in our traffic study and included in all of the analysis for the road improvements.

5269
10:34:48,990 --> 10:34:52,050
So, as far as impact on the road, it should be addressed then.

5270
10:34:52,050 --> 10:34:56,890
So to clarify that's part of the 80 truck trips per day.

5271
10:34:57,570 --> 10:35:03,850
The 80 truck trips refers only to the trucks transporting coal for ultimate disposition,

5272
10:35:04,030 --> 10:35:09,050
but the traffic study, which is the complete analysis that recommended the total package of improvements

5273
10:35:09,050 --> 10:35:14,150
that is being required through the RIA, which takes into account all of the traffic generated by the mind,

5274
10:35:14,310 --> 10:35:19,650
including employees, water hauling, deliveries, et cetera, also includes these numbers.

5275
10:35:19,650 --> 10:35:21,990
So it's not in the 80, it's in the total.

5276
10:35:33,700 --> 10:35:38,360
So with GCC, if number seven is in,

5277
10:35:41,200 --> 10:35:44,440
what should those items that you proposed to middle on,

5278
10:35:44,560 --> 10:35:46,860
do you think relates to number seven?

5279
10:35:48,620 --> 10:35:49,680
Five and six?

5280
10:35:52,480 --> 10:35:52,800
Sorry, yes.

5281
10:35:52,860 --> 10:35:54,880
No, I'm sorry, I'm asking GCC.

5282
10:35:56,260 --> 10:35:58,860
Mr. Chairman, first of all, condition number,

5283
10:35:58,860 --> 10:36:05,040
A finding number seven is one with which GCC agrees and concurs and we have no dispute or question.

5284
10:36:07,340 --> 10:36:14,900
If it is the inclination of the board to allow in items six and seven proposed by Mr. Danielson,

5285
10:36:15,220 --> 10:36:20,600
then we would ask that you also allow in items four and five submitted to GCC, which relate to the same issue.

5286
10:36:22,880 --> 10:36:27,480
items 1, 2, and 3 on your list here, we're all related to a different issue.

5287
10:36:28,820 --> 10:36:36,380
So if I may, I'd just say we have no objection to putting in 5, 6, and 7, 4, I'd say,

5288
10:36:36,460 --> 10:36:41,280
is the wild earth guardian's complaint about which we've heard nothing today and we certainly

5289
10:36:41,280 --> 10:36:42,920
aren't going to say anything about it.

5290
10:36:43,120 --> 10:36:47,580
You're right. That's my mistake. That is a different matter. So it's just our item number

5291
10:36:47,580 --> 10:36:53,500
five, just five, then I would just, you know, I think the issue of the waste

5292
10:36:53,500 --> 10:36:57,900
drop has been raised enough for Commissioner ask a question, and it certainly

5293
10:36:57,900 --> 10:37:05,120
was in the documents we got, I would go ahead and change my mind and just move

5294
10:37:05,120 --> 10:37:07,980
that we accept numbers five and seven into evidence.

5295
10:37:11,590 --> 10:37:13,270
Five, six, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven, seven.

5296
10:37:13,270 --> 10:37:14,370
You just said five.

5297
10:37:14,410 --> 10:37:15,790
You said number five only, correct?

5298
10:37:15,790 --> 10:37:19,690
I was, so our documents are four and five.

5299
10:37:20,290 --> 10:37:21,770
Their documents are six and seven.

5300
10:37:22,410 --> 10:37:25,010
If you take six and seven, we want you to all take five.

5301
10:37:25,030 --> 10:37:25,490
Got you.

5302
10:37:26,490 --> 10:37:26,750
All right.

5303
10:37:27,110 --> 10:37:30,270
Then, then let's go with making that five six and seven.

5304
10:37:31,890 --> 10:37:31,970
Okay.

5305
10:37:32,190 --> 10:37:39,590
So based on that, the May 27 letter from Trent Petersen on the King 1 will become

5306
10:37:39,590 --> 10:37:41,590
Exhibit 85.

5307
10:37:52,050 --> 10:38:10,310
The May 27th, the May 27th letter from Peter Sin on King 1 becomes Exhibit 85, the May 30th letter from Duke Luke Daniel Sin is 86 and the written statement from Carl Mount is 87.

5308
10:38:14,980 --> 10:38:15,860
That was my motion.

5309
10:38:17,580 --> 10:38:21,940
And items 1-3-4 are excluded and 8-9 will wait till tomorrow.

5310
10:38:21,940 --> 10:38:25,040
All in favour?

5311
10:38:25,460 --> 10:38:26,100
Aye.

5312
10:38:26,420 --> 10:38:26,840
Aye.

5313
10:38:27,260 --> 10:38:28,500
Thank you.

5314
10:38:31,560 --> 10:38:34,060
Respect to the motion for tomorrow's agenda.

5315
10:38:34,480 --> 10:38:35,700
Can I get a close of evidence?

5316
10:38:36,320 --> 10:38:37,420
That's what we were aiming for.

5317
10:38:37,640 --> 10:38:38,300
Go ahead.

5318
10:38:39,280 --> 10:38:40,640
I'm going to move again.

5319
10:38:40,800 --> 10:38:42,060
That we close evidence.

5320
10:38:43,420 --> 10:38:44,080
All in favour?

5321
10:38:44,520 --> 10:38:45,020
Please say aye.

5322
10:38:46,060 --> 10:38:46,160
Aye.

5323
10:38:46,640 --> 10:38:46,660
Aye.

5324
10:38:48,220 --> 10:38:53,840
The motion for an executive session on June 1, 2016 at 10.15 a.m.

5325
10:38:53,840 --> 10:38:58,940
We'll be for the purposes of the board receiving legal advice on specific legal questions.

5326
10:38:59,720 --> 10:39:06,620
President Colorado revised statute 24602 for B for the purpose of discussing GCC compliance

5327
10:39:06,620 --> 10:39:10,980
with state and federal permits and the La Plata County Code and for determining positions

5328
10:39:10,980 --> 10:39:16,120
relative to matters that may be subject to negotiations, developing strategy for negotiations

5329
10:39:16,120 --> 10:39:22,860
and instructing negotiators for certain to Colorado revised statute 24602 for E regarding

5330
10:39:22,860 --> 10:39:25,260
the road improvement agreement with GCC.

5331
10:39:26,940 --> 10:39:27,480
So moved.

5332
10:39:29,870 --> 10:39:30,530
All in favor?

5333
10:39:30,910 --> 10:39:31,290
Aye.

5334
10:39:31,570 --> 10:39:31,870
Aye.

5335
10:39:32,750 --> 10:39:34,570
Thank you.

5336
10:39:38,380 --> 10:39:44,640
I move that we continue this matter to tomorrow at 12 30 p.m.

5337
10:39:45,300 --> 10:39:46,000
All in favor?

5338
10:39:46,640 --> 10:39:46,880
Aye.

5339
10:39:47,600 --> 10:39:47,860
Aye.

5340
10:39:48,440 --> 10:39:49,200
Thank you.

5341
10:39:49,680 --> 10:39:50,700
Thank you all for coming.

5342
10:39:54,410 --> 10:39:56,550
I'm not sure if we're all those who says not to die.

5343
10:39:56,570 --> 10:39:58,230
I know.

5344
10:39:58,230 --> 10:39:59,370
Thank you very much.