[0:21] good evening everyone and Welcome to our
[0:24] last meeting in 2024 December 17 2024
[0:30] uh director Fitz could you please do a
[0:33] roll call Mayor James here councilman
[0:37] Winkler here councilman trolinger presid
[0:42] councilwoman Bryant Ward pres councilman
[0:44] Jenkins pres Adam Mary you have a quorum
[0:48] thank you very much if you all could
[0:51] stand and join us in the Pledge of
[0:52] Allegiance
[0:55] please I PL allegiance to the flag from
[0:58] the United States of America
[1:00] and to
[1:10] thece thank you Council if you've had a
[1:13] moment to uh look over the agenda I will
[1:16] entertain a
[1:18] motion Madame mayor yes I move that we
[1:21] accept the December 17 2024 meeting
[1:24] agenda as presented thank you very much
[1:27] do I have a
[1:28] second second
[1:30] thank you any uh
[1:33] discussion all in favor please indicate
[1:35] by saying I I motion
[1:40] carries
[1:43] next we have answer that see needs to be
[1:49] no she okay next on the agenda is the uh
[1:54] approval of the minutes from the regular
[1:55] meeting I'm going to separate these out
[1:58] uh as two motions
[2:00] uh for the regular meeting of December
[2:02] 10th 2024 do I have a motion to accept
[2:05] the uh to approve the minutes from the
[2:07] regular meeting of December 10th 2024
[2:10] Madame mayor yes I move that we approve
[2:13] the meeting the regular meeting minutes
[2:15] of December 10th for 2024 as presented
[2:18] thank you very much do I have a second any
[2:22] discussion all in favor please indicate
[2:24] by saying I I I motion carries and if
[2:29] you've had a opportunity to look at the
[2:30] closed session uh minutes I will
[2:33] entertain a motion as well Madame mayor
[2:35] yes the December 10th Clos session
[2:39] meeting minutes need to be amended to
[2:41] remove Jay Gullo um as being in
[2:44] attendance he wasn't ask to attend and
[2:47] with that I I make a motion that we
[2:49] accept it with the corrections thank you
[2:51] very much do I have a mo uh second to
[2:55] accept the amended closed session
[2:57] minutes Madam mayor I second the motion
[3:00] to accept the amended minutes for the
[3:04] Clos session all right thank you uh any
[3:08] discussion all in favor please indicate
[3:10] by saying I I any opposed motion carries
[3:14] all right that brings us to our uh
[3:17] public comment if anybody would like to
[3:19] speak I ask that you state your name
[3:22] whether you live within the Incorporated
[3:24] Town limits and if you could limit your
[3:27] um talking points to 3 minutes that
[3:29] would be greatly appreciated any
[3:32] takers all right we'll go into our
[3:36] monthly reports first up is the finance
[3:40] uh Department M uh Miss
[3:47] Larson good evening Council any
[3:49] questions regarding the um monthly
[3:51] Treasures report all right I'll open the
[3:53] floor Council any questions go ahead
[3:57] thank you thank you Miss Lon um
[4:00] a couple questions
[4:02] um there's a um I'm not sure what page
[4:06] is but it's a there's a 25% variance in
[4:10] Year date with the sewer Enterprise fund
[4:12] I think it's uh the pie chart
[4:15] on page 20 one of
[4:20] 41 it's actually the spreadsheet in the
[4:23] pie chart the sewer are you referring to
[4:25] the capital
[4:27] outlay well the total expenditures yeah
[4:30] that that so it's the capital it's the
[4:32] projects we have two projects that are
[4:35] near completion we still have a few more
[4:37] items on the Southwest quadrant okay and
[4:39] um mod one those are coming to an end
[4:42] and that's why the decrease is
[4:44] there and then there another variance
[4:46] for stor Water Management of
[4:48] 88.6% and that's probably again the ms4
[4:52] on those projects
[4:55] okay all right any other questions for U
[4:59] Miss l
[5:02] thank you very much all right next up is
[5:06] Human Resources Director Kennedy any uh
[5:09] questions for director Kennedy's
[5:12] report mam mayor yes thank you director
[5:15] Kennedy has the RFP been put out for the
[5:19] town
[5:20] manager that was being um managed by the
[5:23] assistant Town manager and yes they are
[5:25] uh we are actively recruiting and taking
[5:27] first applications on January 20th
[5:30] okay are doing the first review I'm
[5:31] sorry the first review of applications
[5:33] on the 20th and we've received
[5:35] applications the search firm has yes
[5:38] okay thank
[5:41] you I'm G to do that question I'll just
[5:43] follow over the planning director any
[5:45] applications yet for the plan director
[5:47] position um I have not heard but it has
[5:51] gone out okay and then back to the town
[5:54] man how many applications have you
[5:57] receed have they received is there a
[5:58] number
[6:00] last week 24 24 okay thank
[6:05] you right any other questions answer
[6:09] mine thank you very
[6:11] much all
[6:14] right director Mossy on
[6:21] up any questions for uh
[6:27] inspections thank you for the thanks
[6:30] again and I know you're
[6:31] busy um several years ago there was a
[6:35] request to look at enhancing our code
[6:38] with a our our code Zone enforcement
[6:41] talking about a livability code and I
[6:43] know it's kind of Fallen because of
[6:46] different reasons is there any potential
[6:47] that we maybe we could revive that
[6:49] because I know I provided an example
[6:50] from Westminster Maryland not that
[6:53] that's the end all be all but maybe that
[6:55] can be a template for future
[6:56] consideration and I asked the question
[6:58] because uh there's
[7:00] another
[7:02] recurring let's to say trouble spot uh
[7:05] in in our neighborhood and this uh I I
[7:10] my idea would be perhaps if we beef up
[7:13] our enforcement actions we get greater
[7:15] compliance and perhaps have greater
[7:17] credibility with with the state's
[7:19] attorney and circuit court so I would
[7:21] just throw that out there absolutely
[7:23] it's my hope with the new planning
[7:25] director we have a fresh start a clean
[7:26] slate we can work on that livability
[7:29] code code and then the other couple
[7:31] issues that I noted on the monthly
[7:33] report okay um dealing with very minor
[7:35] issues um so we'll jump right in with
[7:39] the new director and get to work on the
[7:41] code thank you you're very welcome any
[7:44] other
[7:46] questions uh yes um I know we had a
[7:50] resident last week that came and you
[7:52] probably know about this because there
[7:54] was some further communication about it
[7:55] via email that expressed some concerns
[7:58] with
[8:00] um you know the development of Pine
[8:02] Grove and the effects thereof as far as
[8:05] sediment erosion and how the this
[8:09] particular developer has gotten in
[8:10] trouble in a different area of Maryland
[8:12] I'll be it um and I know um met a mayor
[8:17] I'm not sure if that was through
[8:19] capacity as um acting Town manager or
[8:24] not but regardless address those issues
[8:27] as far as it related to mde
[8:30] um compliance but I it it's come up a
[8:33] couple times where either councilman
[8:36] Jenkins because his Ward is
[8:38] affected or myself because of
[8:41] agricopia um have asked in the past of
[8:46] director Harrington or director stall
[8:48] when they were here do we have
[8:53] enough
[8:54] manpower on the town side to ensure that developments that are going up in
[9:02] our community are being watched and I
[9:07] know we can't uncover every rock or
[9:11] watch every nail being hammered in um
[9:14] but the response that councilman Jenkins
[9:16] and I had gotten in the past was look we
[9:19] use vendors everything's going fine I'll go drive over there and take a look
[9:25] kind of a thing um what can we do or
[9:30] what are we already doing to know that
[9:33] this is being taken care of or or does
[9:36] the town need more help in that aspect
[9:40] I'd like to know what your thoughts are
[9:41] yeah absolutely your Forte basically
[9:44] absolutely uh I know my personally
[9:46] myself and inspector clagett we're over
[9:48] there a whole lot uh we do our routine
[9:50] patrols through the neighborhoods
[9:52] keeping an eye on the construction I
[9:54] will say that uh when issues have come
[9:56] up over there um Dr Horton's very
[9:59] responsive uh and we've had us there's
[10:02] always going to be growing pains uh with
[10:04] any development anywhere um but they're
[10:07] very responsive uh they're very quick to
[10:10] address any
[10:11] issues um and it it it from my
[10:14] standpoint being over there every day um
[10:18] it's going pretty smooth like I said
[10:20] there's always going to be
[10:21] hiccups um but I couldn't ask for a
[10:23] better crew over there to deal with any
[10:25] issues that come up so I have to give
[10:28] them credit where it's due
[10:30] um and as far as the coverage goes we
[10:32] are keeping a close eye on it uh plan
[10:35] check does an excellent job for us they
[10:37] report any issues that they see when
[10:38] they're in the field um so I'm very
[10:41] confident that um things will happen
[10:44] that we're not on site but we're quick
[10:46] to respond to it and um I don't see the
[10:49] need that we need any additional
[10:50] Personnel over there
[10:53] um it's it's actually running pretty
[10:56] good I know there's a lot of growth and
[11:00] I know even beside that you guys have
[11:03] lots of responsibilities on just
[11:05] existing structures existing um codes
[11:09] and so if there is a need um just let
[11:13] Council know because we don't obviously
[11:16] the the fix later on is going to be even
[11:19] more painful than the growing pains um
[11:23] and I guess maybe if there's any
[11:25] opportunity to see where we may be
[11:28] vulnerable mhm um that would be helpful
[11:31] I know um just growing up in Damascus
[11:36] seeing Clarksburg the way they developed
[11:40] too fast and they had
[11:42] inspectors but essentially they they
[11:45] just did whatever they wanted and then
[11:46] later on there were fines but at that
[11:49] point the whole character and community
[11:51] that was supposed to be put in place it was it was too late absolutely and
[11:57] I'm not saying we're at that point but
[11:59] it's something to just keep in mind you
[12:02] know as Council like we we want we want
[12:04] you to have what you need I appreciate
[12:07] that do you know what I mean absolutely
[12:08] thank
[12:11] you um you mentioned plan check do does
[12:13] plan check do site
[12:15] visits they or do they just do a rud I
[12:18] mean to cut off but or do they just do a
[12:20] preliminary like a plat approval you
[12:23] know um initially and
[12:26] then um do they do they do ongoing site
[12:29] throughout the sure they do have
[12:32] specific uh inspections that they go out
[12:34] to um but the inspectors at plan check
[12:37] have they we work great with them and if
[12:39] they see something in their travels uh
[12:42] they'll report it to me so essentially
[12:43] they're an extra set of OD absolutely
[12:47] okay I just have one F question that
[12:50] councilman TR brought up I just I just reminded that the previous plan
[12:55] director there she indicated they had
[12:57] monthly meetings with pine grve
[12:59] I believe that was the case so I don't
[13:00] know whether because of the turb I know
[13:02] that's still happening no I have not had
[13:05] any direct contact with but to your best
[13:08] recollection during those particular
[13:10] monthly meeting were there any red flags
[13:13] or issues or concerns that were raised
[13:15] not at all not at all um I again I have
[13:17] to give them credit uh deal with all all
[13:20] sorts of developers um but they run a
[13:22] pretty tight ship over there and um
[13:25] they've not given us any issues or any
[13:27] concerns they seem to be on top of
[13:29] things councilman Jenkins I'll address
[13:32] that we do still meet monthly um aon's
[13:37] not part of those meetings but the town
[13:39] manager is uh Kirk is on those meetings
[13:42] as well as far and the engineers are on
[13:46] there um there's several people on those
[13:49] meetings and we are meeting monthly so
[13:52] you don't I mean so I'll ask it again I
[13:55] mean there so there's no red flags or
[13:56] issues or indic
[13:59] or we had some back and forth things
[14:02] have gotten
[14:03] resolved okay thank
[14:06] you and I would just like to um end with
[14:09] you know it was great that Miss pinkis
[14:11] brought this concern to council because
[14:15] it gave not only us uh awareness of that
[14:20] others are watching what's going on in
[14:22] town but um our team was able to all get
[14:26] together and we spoke with mde and our soil and conservation Specialists uh
[14:32] storm water management the assits and
[14:34] town manager our our attorney and the
[14:37] developers attorney and the developer
[14:40] and I learned so much about the process
[14:43] and um Carrie was very responsive with
[14:45] mde she said nope this happens all the
[14:49] time and it's not unique to Pine grve
[14:52] and gave examples of other developments
[14:54] within our Incorporated Town limits that
[14:58] they may get some something that they're
[14:59] pinged on and immediately they fix it
[15:02] it's kind of like and she told me it's
[15:04] like a um punch list when you buy a new
[15:07] house you identified 10 things that may
[15:11] not be up to your standards and they're
[15:14] immediately addressed that doesn't mean
[15:16] that that has gone that's a black mark
[15:19] against them so it was a very
[15:21] educational thing for me as well and and
[15:24] appreciate all that you're doing big
[15:25] project with a lot of moving parts and uh the the important thing to me in
[15:30] inspections is if there's a problem how
[15:33] quickly do they address it and um and
[15:37] they they've been pretty successful at
[15:38] that with no push back so that's all I
[15:40] can ask right thank you and thank you
[15:43] very much for your hard work too all
[15:45] right
[15:52] Chief good evening mayor and councel uh
[15:54] any questions from the police report
[15:57] well first of all I don't like that
[15:58] you're in front of Kings Grant right now
[15:59] for the reason that you're in front of
[16:01] Kings Grant so prayers to everyone
[16:02] involved in that accident but thank you
[16:04] uh I understand on good authority that
[16:06] the traffic is moving through and uh you
[16:09] all are instrumental in that I'll open
[16:11] up the floor for uh comments thank you
[16:14] Madame mayor Chief in the um 21 22 23 we
[16:19] were having problems with retention and
[16:21] recruitment how are we doing with
[16:24] retention well we we have done fairly
[16:27] well with retention uh I I did get
[16:29] notice that one offer is going to be
[16:31] leaving this week but uh comparative to
[16:36] some of our other uh jurisdictions we
[16:39] haven't done too bad okay we we'd love
[16:42] to keep it that way okay uh any other questions uh yes it's
[16:49] just a comment uh Chief thanks for your
[16:51] report um I did want to thank you for
[16:54] the continued uh Community work uh with
[16:57] your officers and toys for to program
[17:00] and with the Maryland State Police um it
[17:03] really uh was touching to see the
[17:05] Departments locally get together um and
[17:08] affect the community the way that you
[17:10] did I know sometimes um even though
[17:13] everybody's trying to do the right thing
[17:15] it's hard to get everybody on the same
[17:16] page and um it was great to see that so
[17:20] thank you for your work in that um 21
[17:23] tons of food is a is a lot to pick up
[17:26] and there it's a lot of cans you better
[17:28] have some friends to help you along the
[17:31] way right um I did want to ask you as
[17:35] far as
[17:37] in this time of year typically we see
[17:41] kind of a decrease in a number of
[17:43] certain incidents and an increase of of
[17:46] incidents at the big box stores is that
[17:49] what we're seeing typically right now is custom for this time of year we're
[17:53] not seeing as being as busy as the big
[17:56] box stores and I think that has a lot to
[17:58] do with uh loss prevention rules that
[18:02] the box stores have placed on their
[18:04] folks who do their security uh we do
[18:07] find that when we do have things uh some
[18:10] places the officer will get there and
[18:12] they've already documented for this
[18:14] particular individual of interest that
[18:16] they've already had five 10 20 cases so
[18:20] when the officer does go they're there
[18:22] for the whole day writing a report or
[18:24] whatever but uh uh as the council knows
[18:28] a uh they helped us purchase a couple of
[18:30] the trailers that have cameras on them
[18:33] uh I know one's immobilized and the
[18:35] other one's going out and I think those
[18:38] uh help deter crime at our big box
[18:42] stores uh but you also have this time of
[18:44] year where domestics and mental health
[18:46] calls go up and there's it there's been
[18:49] no uh no slowing down in those sorts of
[18:51] calls for
[18:53] service um the other question was and
[18:56] Madam mayor mentioned it as actually the
[18:59] second time in what two two meetings
[19:02] where we've had a very serious Collision
[19:06] out near bath on
[19:08] 488 and you know that road is of course
[19:12] where some of council resides like we're
[19:14] off that road and it's a major thorough
[19:16] away and we have talked
[19:19] to um our Traffic Engineers along the
[19:23] way the last couple years about what do
[19:25] we need to do to get the attention of
[19:29] the state with regards to traffic coming
[19:32] in that area is there a report you guys
[19:35] can run as far as number of incidents
[19:38] that we can be looking at comparison
[19:42] wise for the data between current and
[19:45] maybe five years ago where we can
[19:47] present and packets at that that's
[19:49] actually pretty easy for us to generate
[19:51] through the uh Maryland State Police
[19:53] Collision uh system and uh they're
[19:57] really good about
[19:59] it all goes by coordinates now but uh we can do that I can tell you that I
[20:04] personally have walked from the area
[20:08] there where the traffic light is now all
[20:10] the way up to the entrance of Kings
[20:12] Grant with people from Sha citing the
[20:15] challenges that we have and uh I I know
[20:18] they have lots of projects and lots of
[20:19] other things but um when we have
[20:22] collisions there they're usually serious
[20:24] collisions I I don't know how bad the
[20:27] rollover was but tonight's in the roll
[20:29] over um thank you yeah just let us know
[20:32] when you get that together and you know
[20:35] Chief even something as simple as a
[20:37] putting um a reflective mirror up there
[20:40] is so they can see because
[20:43] usually uh the the accidents are because
[20:46] someone is turning and someone is going
[20:48] straight and that person coming out of
[20:50] the entrance is not they can't see that
[20:53] other car and that's usually what
[20:54] happens and I've been asking for that I
[20:57] didn't think that would be so difficult
[20:59] to provide I I remember that
[21:02] conversation in the Sha telling us that
[21:04] the mirrors were not something that they
[21:07] use as a a traffic cing device but uh I
[21:10] think as the council can see we had uh three fatal collisions in four days
[21:17] and our collisions I think it was last
[21:19] month we we really exceeded the number
[21:22] of collisions that we had year to date
[21:24] so uh uh it's things that we keep an eye
[21:26] on and we we do try to do traffic
[21:28] enforcement in those areas but the calls
[21:31] for service this time of year tend to
[21:33] keep our folks
[21:35] busy anything else but go ahead thank
[21:38] you Madame Chief is there anything we
[21:40] can do on Ken Avenue we've got a lot of
[21:42] kids that walk up and down there and I'm
[21:44] telling you folk are going at least 40
[21:47] miles an hour on Kent Avenue this one
[21:50] car came around yesterday and it was
[21:53] going so fast it bearded into the other
[21:54] lane something has got to happen because
[21:57] they are not observing that 25 miles an
[22:00] hour we can uh we can do two things we
[22:02] can do enforcement we can also put the
[22:04] speed trailer out to give us some sort
[22:05] of idea about car counts it and I know
[22:09] when they see the speed trailer the
[22:11] natural tendency is for people to slow
[22:12] down but it helps us pick up on the most
[22:15] active times of the day for that roadway
[22:18] because it gives us car counts and
[22:19] that's helpful for enforcement
[22:22] okay thank you just to concur with
[22:25] councilwoman Bryant Ward and councilman
[22:27] trer I mean we've talked about it and
[22:29] it's again happening in Clark's run I
[22:32] mean this morning this young lady I know
[22:35] where she lives must have gone 50 miles
[22:37] an hour down east pin and I'm walking in
[22:40] the street with two dogs and two other
[22:42] people anyway um so uh so I certainly
[22:46] concur that you guys are stretched
[22:49] because of the calls and enforcement is
[22:51] not it's one element of it so uh Ive
[22:55] I've still attempted to get the clock
[22:57] run citizens Association meet with you
[22:59] guys and I can't get them a date yet
[23:02] they haven't given me a date I'll reach
[23:03] out to them again because they're
[23:06] interested in doing that so and then
[23:08] we're happy to do so I know you are and
[23:10] I tell them that but I I can't drag the
[23:13] horse to water if they don't want to do
[23:14] it but I'll keep trying and then I know
[23:16] I forwarded to you and maybe the council
[23:19] different techniques for traffic
[23:20] neighborhood traffic coming that I
[23:23] believe as a council we should try to
[23:25] look at those as
[23:27] policies as part of either complete
[23:29] Street or or zero you know traffic zero
[23:34] because the state's now doing it and and
[23:35] so the other jurisdiction and I would
[23:37] just throw that out there for further
[23:39] discussion thank you we're happy to be
[23:41] part of that discussion thank you thank
[23:43] you Chief keep for great Work Director
[23:52] fips all right I will open the floor for
[23:55] any questions for director fips
[24:03] thank you keep up the great work and the
[24:05] great report all right um the planning
[24:11] do you want to take any questions uh
[24:14] since uh Celia might not be on but any
[24:17] questions for planning I will try okay
[24:22] go ahead I have thank you I have a
[24:23] couple questions uh in her report talks
[24:26] about reviewed rosewick scoping proposal
[24:29] I don't know what that is I don't that
[24:32] was the one that was the one I don't
[24:34] have any answer okay I'm sorry about
[24:36] that and then
[24:38] um what else I had something else I
[24:40] can't remember what it was oh um so and the there's a bullet about
[24:44] annexation oh the last one reviewed
[24:46] annexation restrictions draft Ordinance
[24:49] do you have any information about what
[24:50] that is um there's a rule now that when
[24:53] the zoning changes when and property is
[24:56] beinged from the county and the zoning
[24:58] there's a 5e wait right putting that in
[25:02] ordinance form we do not have that in
[25:04] ordinance oh you just going to
[25:05] institutionalize it in the order clean
[25:07] it up to the state law yes thank
[25:10] you any other
[25:12] questions go ahead thank you Madame
[25:14] mayor um so with all of the growth right
[25:19] how do we prepare as a town to increase
[25:23] our capacity to service all of the
[25:26] growth that we're experiencing is that
[25:28] something planning looks at you know I
[25:30] can't imagine that we could continue to
[25:32] maintain the town on the existing
[25:34] Staffing levels that we have additional
[25:37] homes you know additional trash how do
[25:40] we main how do we prepare for that type
[25:42] of growth well they do maintain all
[25:46] those figures they have to report those
[25:48] to the state department of planning each
[25:50] year the population growth they keep
[25:54] track of that the building permits and
[25:56] all of that
[25:59] that's something I would think we would
[26:01] talk about during the budget season and
[26:03] when we're doing our strategic
[26:06] planning and also if I can add on to
[26:09] that with the developers they are
[26:10] required to do traffic um reports they
[26:14] uh to they do impact reports as well to
[26:17] impact uh on the schools on the roads
[26:20] all of that that is all part of their
[26:22] package that they have to submit and you
[26:25] probably know better than I do because
[26:26] it comes to the Planning Commission uh
[26:28] and now we've got uh apfo that should be
[26:33] coming out in January that has been
[26:35] reviewed and written and U being
[26:38] reviewed so th that's how they do that
[26:40] they are required to do studies upon
[26:43] studies but that's not the question the
[26:45] question is for us as a town as a
[26:49] municipality infrastructure do we have
[26:52] the Staffing that's adequate to cover
[26:55] the services that we have you know we
[26:57] could cover you know know the smaller
[26:59] developments that most of the
[27:00] developments that we have are not really
[27:02] big I just noticed Pine grve has town
[27:05] homes on um rosewick and St Charles so
[27:10] how do we prepare when when we are
[27:12] looking at picking up trash with the
[27:14] number of um you know staff members that
[27:17] we have are we adequately going to be
[27:20] able to do that without over tasking
[27:23] them you know are they going to be
[27:24] picking up trash from sun up to sun down
[27:27] you know well that that it's going to be
[27:29] something we need to talk with each
[27:31] director about um Pine grve that example
[27:34] was one that um previous director um
[27:37] Garner was looking into yeah um those
[27:41] are things we're going to need to
[27:43] discuss yes the schools I'm not
[27:45] concerned about because I know that's
[27:46] going to happen but as a municipality
[27:49] we're confined by Resources by space by
[27:53] you know building capacity to sta staff
[27:56] and house them we only have so many
[27:58] garbage trucks so many people to work
[28:01] the garbage trucks and with time off and
[28:04] everything now just making sure that we
[28:06] are adequate to take care of those needs
[28:09] um one of the things we've always said
[28:11] we want to be able to provide the same
[28:12] level of service great service that we
[28:15] provided in the past and how do we make
[28:17] sure that we do that keep doing
[28:20] that go ahead ask I just want to add a
[28:22] comment g go
[28:25] ahead uh I had a question as to um so
[28:30] mayor James mentioned that the
[28:32] developers are required to of course
[28:34] provide impact studies whether it's
[28:37] traffic or environment or whatever
[28:41] um in our growth as I think a more
[28:47] mature municipality in getting a an
[28:51] engineer um that we begin to work with
[28:55] um is is there an opportunity for us to
[28:59] also have um maybe look at an
[29:03] independent entity that can
[29:06] evaluate traffic studies
[29:08] because um when someone is coming for an
[29:11] application and we've seen this multiple
[29:13] times for their own
[29:16] development it is not comprehensive as
[29:18] it relates to the other developments
[29:20] that are going up either simultaneously
[29:23] or close in time and unfortunately
[29:27] that's not how we live
[29:28] right so development on one side of town
[29:31] is certainly going to affect the traffic
[29:33] flow on the other and I've noticed that
[29:36] they all come back pretty clean and
[29:39] pretty non-disruptive and unfortunately
[29:42] six is not that way right and
[29:45] so uh just in what I do for a profession
[29:49] there are experts on multiple sides and
[29:53] unfortunately sometimes um they're paid in a way that supports
[29:57] their position position before it's
[29:59] written and I don't want to say that is
[30:01] what what happens but it's ripe for for
[30:04] that and so I would say like maybe as we
[30:08] work on kind of growing out and securing
[30:12] our infrastructure as councilwoman
[30:14] Bryant Ward discusses like making sure
[30:17] we can produce the services our
[30:19] residents need that we look at perhaps
[30:22] an
[30:23] independent traffic engineer at the same
[30:26] time um because that's they're going to
[30:29] have the town's best interest in mind as
[30:33] we evaluate and they can look for any
[30:36] vulnerabilities as to something produced
[30:38] by the developer not not to say ill
[30:41] intent but could happen no
[30:45] but any other questions go ahead thank
[30:48] you I I would concur with the previous
[30:50] comments by counciler and Council Bryant
[30:53] Ward
[30:55] um the other related issue I remember I thought in early in our term
[30:59] didn't we we did a sta a staffing
[31:02] analysis and study um so I'm going to
[31:06] make a big assumption that perhaps
[31:08] that's still somewhat valid and perhaps
[31:10] that can provide some guidance as we go
[31:12] into the budget season of what staffing
[31:15] needs we may or may not need in the
[31:17] future and then I would again throw out
[31:20] um which was proposed in last year's
[31:23] budget then it was
[31:25] removed uh uh an analys that's because
[31:29] land use patterns have a significant
[31:32] physcal impact on us
[31:35] infrastructure and and I know there was
[31:37] a budget item that was in the budget in
[31:40] FY 24 but for some reason it was removed
[31:43] in the current budget a $90,000 study to
[31:46] do a land use analysis of the impact of
[31:49] different land uses on our fiscal
[31:52] sustainability and I would again argue
[31:54] for that as well thank you all right
[31:59] last but not
[32:01] least acting
[32:04] director
[32:06] wood any questions for public
[32:10] works thank you you came prepared
[32:13] tonight with two little iPad
[32:15] huh he stepped up there looking like a
[32:17] director um question SMI um who monitors
[32:23] the lights for smco we have all around
[32:26] that our town the lights are out once
[32:29] before the light there was a a light out
[32:31] at the parking rod and um I work with
[32:35] Brent to get that light turned back on
[32:38] or bul replaced or whatever but we've
[32:40] got it all across you know the town
[32:43] where they're out and the base of some
[32:47] of the light poles are eroding and I'm
[32:49] afraid that they're going to topple over
[32:51] so who takes us who does that who looks
[32:53] at that um I'm not 100% sure if
[32:58] uh if we do that or if Smo is
[33:01] responsible
[33:03] for I don't believe Smo riding around
[33:05] looking to
[33:07] see I'll address that for you okay um
[33:11] smco is responsible for them but they do
[33:14] not they do not we have to report them
[33:17] we have to physically go out there and
[33:18] get the the there's a number on the
[33:21] light pole and report that to get it
[33:23] changed so I got to walk around steeple
[33:26] just and get the number
[33:28] we do that in King's grand for sure
[33:31] taking Brooklyn yes but we we report
[33:35] that just make out okay so the next
[33:39] question I can't remember who did it or
[33:42] why but they came through and that's
[33:44] when they were shaving the sidewalks
[33:47] down because the trees were uprooting
[33:50] them and making them an Mak them a trip
[33:52] Hazard so it must have stopped because
[33:56] we have all of these marking on the
[33:58] sidewalk and nothing's been done in over
[34:00] a year with those
[34:02] markings yes so we
[34:04] have a list of all the sidewalks in the
[34:08] town that uh need to be repaired or
[34:10] replaced and we're uh trying to come up
[34:12] with a contract to uh get all that taken
[34:16] care of
[34:17] okay so uh I was working with Kristen
[34:21] and uh we're going to put more detail
[34:25] into it so like if we have a contractor
[34:28] come out to uh look at it they're more
[34:31] aware what they're going to have to work
[34:34] with Okay and last question how are we
[34:37] on the meters are we at 100% yet because
[34:39] we were supposed to be 100% first year
[34:42] in we're in the high 90s I think it's
[34:46] like 97% so we probably never gonna hit
[34:49] 100% might as well just live with that
[34:51] 97% okay thank you so much all right any
[34:55] other questions just just a thank you
[34:57] cuz I
[34:58] know between leaf removal and water man
[35:02] breaks you'll probably be sick of me
[35:04] talking to you so I want I want to
[35:05] publicly say thank you for you guys
[35:07] going the asra exra effort and I as we
[35:11] talked earlier I tried to tell the
[35:13] community that there at times there are
[35:15] things that are beyond the control of
[35:16] the pl and Public Works namely the
[35:19] weather and the water main breaks and
[35:21] then sometimes priorities change like
[35:23] water system versus leaf leaf pickup so
[35:27] I appre appreciate you you and your
[35:28] staff doing that job thank you very much
[35:30] thank you all right good thank you very
[35:34] much all right so matters of council
[35:37] discussion pension Pension Plan update
[35:40] director
[35:44] Kennedy thank you mayor and councel um
[35:48] as requested I am putting together a
[35:50] separate uh memo here
[35:53] for uh where we are with the pension uh
[35:56] last month when I was here the the
[35:57] council had asked for some documentation
[36:00] and further information about where did
[36:02] some of the numbers come from that I had
[36:03] presented last month so I was able to go
[36:05] back to the vendors have them create um
[36:08] something like a statement of work that
[36:10] would better explain where the data is
[36:12] coming from and why the projected costs
[36:15] are so much more than we initially
[36:16] planned for and what we had budgeted for
[36:18] so I've included them um the USI summary
[36:21] was there um when we went to publication
[36:23] and then today I was able to get the
[36:25] final answers and information from amret
[36:27] so those were included to in a separate
[36:29] email um neither of those organizations
[36:33] were able to meet with the council as
[36:34] requested um before the end of the year
[36:36] because of the holidays and their staff
[36:38] taking vacations they have um USI is
[36:42] committed to being here late um next
[36:44] month for the January 28th meeting and
[36:47] Amrit is I believe waiting um for final
[36:51] information from their team about when
[36:52] their availability is either for January
[36:55] 14th or for one of the February dates
[36:58] um so what we wanted to do in the
[36:59] meantime is make sure you had something
[37:00] in front of you that showed kind of what
[37:03] the costs are where our hurdles are
[37:05] going to be where some of the expenses
[37:06] are how many moving pieces are part of
[37:08] this Pension Plan creation um and then
[37:12] um what we've what we thought would be
[37:14] the best plan to do is have you guys
[37:16] have these in front of you read them and if you have any further or continued
[37:22] questions to give them and send them to
[37:24] me by the 10th that way we can give them
[37:26] and pass them along to the vendors so
[37:29] that they have time to prepare answers
[37:31] and have all the information ready for
[37:32] you when they do come and
[37:35] present right do I have I'll open the
[37:38] floor any questions for director Kennedy
[37:40] on
[37:42] this go ahead thanks again for the work
[37:45] and the effort i i u is it possible
[37:48] to have a a sheet or whatever where you
[37:52] where all the pl are compared on one
[37:54] piece of paper or you know column A is
[37:56] this I mean is it this to me right now
[37:59] for me this is a little disjointed so
[38:00] I'm having a hard time P together we're
[38:03] not anywhere near a comparison plan yet
[38:06] right now we're looking at just these
[38:08] are the con these are the Consultants
[38:10] that are getting all those pieces
[38:12] together and that the administrative
[38:13] costs are already exceeding um what
[38:17] we've budgeted by two to three times and
[38:19] also one of the plans doubles the amount
[38:22] that we budgeted for even like the
[38:24] initial payment to start the fund um so
[38:28] we're not even at the pen to paper stage
[38:31] yet and that's what I was trying to
[38:32] explain last month is that because these
[38:35] costs are already escalating so much
[38:36] more than what we were that this is
[38:38] still the intent to keep going because
[38:40] we will have to have a budget amendment
[38:42] once we get to get into these contracts
[38:44] to continue working on this plan because
[38:46] it is more than what we
[38:48] anticipated so that's why we've got this
[38:51] in front of you is to have those further
[38:53] questions about um where we go from here
[38:56] well we get more information um in
[39:00] January when they when uh USI comes here
[39:05] will they be able to say here's exactly
[39:08] what we can do for you is that the
[39:10] intent for January or and um AMR this is
[39:15] what we can and cannot do in that way we
[39:17] can
[39:18] have a conversation with them saying
[39:21] okay we kind of understand and this is
[39:24] quite admittedly above my head on this
[39:27] but what they're trying to put together
[39:29] is that the kind of conversation you
[39:31] envision on um in January I I I believe
[39:35] the conversation is going to be just to better help answer the counil
[39:39] questions about the challenges um with
[39:41] the plan that we are trying to create
[39:43] okay thank you go ahead thank you Madame
[39:45] mayor is it possible for us to see the
[39:48] ask what is the scope of the work that
[39:51] we're asking these actuarials to do I I
[39:54] gave um I gave them the 12 bullet points
[39:57] that the council selected out of the
[39:59] Bolton plan and I said we would like to
[40:00] make a plan based on these 12 bullet
[40:02] points so if I go so you're telling me
[40:04] to go back where to look at that the
[40:07] December 19th meeting when Bolton
[40:08] presented their um their their summary
[40:12] of the different plan options that the
[40:13] council got to look at and choose
[40:15] December 19th 2023 yep and it should be
[40:18] also in the approved budget um for
[40:21] fiscal year 25 because we also included
[40:23] a copy of that in there I believe
[40:29] all right any other
[40:31] questions go
[40:35] ahead is there
[40:37] any I don't know how to how to I guess
[40:41] what I'm kind of still hung up on is Bolton was hired and and obviously I
[40:47] came into this this late to the to the
[40:49] table so to speak and it had already
[40:50] been discussed but Bolton came with a
[40:53] selection of
[40:55] ideas but nobody ever asked whether they
[40:58] were feasible or whether they were even
[41:01] practical I guess is what I'm so is
[41:04] there is there any response from this
[41:07] USI or amret as
[41:09] to what Bolton has suggested if that
[41:13] could be
[41:14] tweaked to be more accommodating or to
[41:17] be
[41:19] more I guess um match what's already
[41:23] existing in the marketplace that was
[41:24] actually their first response when I
[41:26] handed the the B bullet points to them
[41:29] their first response was we should maybe
[41:32] tweak and try something different
[41:34] yeah they um to do it exactly as written
[41:37] they said would be very challenging so I
[41:39] guess I mean if if Bolton had suggested
[41:42] that we build a spaceship to Mars
[41:44] whether that's practical or not I mean
[41:47] that's what we're trying to do correct
[41:49] yeah what what Bolton provided us was
[41:51] some very very high level Concepts and
[41:53] made a lot of assumptions a lot of
[41:54] vagaries okay I think that that's we can
[41:58] spin our wheels and try to create
[42:00] something that's
[42:02] non-existent or we can go and find
[42:04] something that's already in place that
[42:06] matches what the police
[42:08] officers are are entitled to and what
[42:11] they're asking for and just find
[42:13] something that more is in line with
[42:16] where the work's already been done
[42:18] because I I I if I hear you correctly
[42:20] you're saying this isn't just to run the
[42:23] plan this is just to get it up and
[42:24] running is already exceeded and and some
[42:26] estimate of the annual um annual
[42:29] Administration once it is in planned um
[42:32] so these numbers also include the legal
[42:34] plan document which is will be that
[42:36] probably just that one time cost unless
[42:39] the plan changes in the future because
[42:41] um the idea was that this wraps around
[42:43] Maryland so if Maryland changes then we
[42:45] have to go through the legal process
[42:46] again um so the legal part would be a
[42:48] one-time cost and then the
[42:50] administrative fees are are significant
[42:52] year-over-year and then we already know
[42:54] one of them said the Actuarial F go up
[42:55] at least 3% every year
[42:58] okay and this includes public works as
[43:00] well yes thank you Madame mayor yes um
[43:03] councilman Winkler just a correction
[43:06] when Bolton sat here this was based upon
[43:10] we received a list of other
[43:12] municipalities who had this outside of
[43:16] um the big thing at that time was um
[43:19] what was the plan leops and we said we
[43:22] were not doing leops corre find other
[43:24] municipalities of similar size and scope
[43:27] and what are they doing and they did
[43:29] have plans for their Police Department
[43:32] that's what Bolton brought to us the
[43:34] recommendations we had multiple
[43:37] conversations and at the the last
[43:39] conversation ended with Miss Larson
[43:42] saying that one is doable that's why we
[43:46] moved forward we we didn't have one
[43:48] conversation we had several
[43:50] conversations looking at the carve out
[43:52] and what could and couldn't be done we
[43:54] moved forward because when we got
[43:57] different conversations we saidwell that
[44:00] won't work if we do that this is going
[44:01] to be that the in the last conversation
[44:05] that made this Council move forward with
[44:07] the plan and we all moved forward was
[44:11] because we were told this was
[44:14] doable disagree with that statement
[44:16] because you weren't pres it was never
[44:18] said it was doable yes it I would I
[44:20] suggest that you go back and look at the
[44:23] umil meeting counc Brian word I'm not
[44:25] trying to be argumentative but the
[44:26] evidence is such this plan does not
[44:29] exist in the United States if I can
[44:31] interrupt for a second the the its
[44:34] doable plan was based on much lower
[44:37] administrative costs and a much lower
[44:39] buyin and now that we're discovering
[44:41] that that is not the case then miss
[44:43] Larson's comment about it's doable is no
[44:45] longer valid because but at that time
[44:47] and that's why we moved forward when
[44:50] what we're saying now is that this is no
[44:52] longer the case I understand but we
[44:54] moved forward because we were told it
[44:57] was
[44:58] doable we also were making a lot of
[45:00] assumptions about what the plan would
[45:02] include and and how how it would be
[45:04] execut if what it looks like financially
[45:06] and what it looks like to create
[45:08] understand all that I understand the
[45:09] reality versus Theory I'm clear right we
[45:11] made a decision based on Theory okay but
[45:14] we made the decision based upon the
[45:16] advice and the information that was
[45:17] given to us so I asking that
[45:22] we we're putting up a lot of barriers to
[45:25] this thing and I I just feel that it's
[45:28] barriers and a a lack of desire to see
[45:31] it move forward that's causing all of
[45:34] this anxiety if this is not the plan we
[45:38] they only wanted certain things then we
[45:42] find the plan that would get to the the
[45:45] retirement age that they were asking
[45:48] that matches what we approved and agreed
[45:50] to instead of making it something bigger
[45:53] than what we started out with so I'm
[45:56] asking so if you're telling me that the
[45:59] ask in the plan that we had from Bolton
[46:03] is the thing that saying we can't do
[46:06] this we can't do that I don't believe
[46:08] that there's anything on this Earth
[46:10] that's totally impossible I I can't
[46:13] imagine that this has never been done
[46:16] when we saw multiple municipalities that
[46:20] had retirement plans for the police
[46:22] officers that matched what they were
[46:24] asking why did we deviate also asking
[46:27] for public works as well if this was
[46:29] just as simple as a police plan this
[46:32] would be a completely different approach
[46:33] but even Bolton Said Public Works is not
[46:36] a thing including them is that what's
[46:38] causing the
[46:39] problem well no it's still overall it's
[46:41] still going to be overall costs well I
[46:43] mean I'm looking at this not just from
[46:45] you know from this perspective but from
[46:47] a financial responsibility and this is
[46:50] you know much much more than than where
[46:52] we think we're going to be and and I
[46:54] just want to make sure that we
[46:56] understand understand before we put in
[46:58] time and effort that this is almost
[47:01] double just administratively from the
[47:05] ground and I don't think it is feasible
[47:07] and I don't think it
[47:09] is you know I mean we could we could
[47:11] make a plan all day but I don't know
[47:14] that that's in the best interest for
[47:16] fiscal responsibility for the town I
[47:18] think there's other solutions that I
[47:20] mean and Karan and I have said this in
[47:22] multiple meetings there are other there
[47:24] are other options that are more fiscally
[47:26] responsible to the town and more
[47:27] sustainable to the town that will still
[47:29] accomplish the same
[47:31] thing that is not going to take all
[47:33] these steps and create something from
[47:35] scratch we can use our existing options
[47:38] to do
[47:40] this and and we've the treasurer and I
[47:43] have been saying that since the
[47:44] beginning we can we can do the same
[47:47] thing for less without the complications
[47:50] of paying thousands tens of thousands of
[47:52] dollars to another consultant to another
[47:55] agency to for legal fees and for all
[47:58] actuarials and trust funds and finance
[48:01] commit you know all that we wouldn't
[48:03] have those extra expenses and it's it's
[48:08] educating and getting people better of
[48:10] managing the funds and the money and
[48:11] matching we can still do an employer
[48:14] contribution maybe get the employee to
[48:16] put some skin in the game and and get
[48:18] them enough money that they can retire
[48:20] at age 50 or 55 or wherever it wants to
[48:24] be and I think part of the hangup here
[48:28] is we're looking for a plan that has it
[48:30] in writing that says you can leave at 55
[48:32] and I think if we do it the right way
[48:35] with like the other plans that we have
[48:36] that exist that we already are part of
[48:38] through Mission Square then once you
[48:41] have that Financial goal then go right
[48:44] like we don't have it could be at 45 if
[48:46] that's what they wanted to retire
[48:49] at I just think there's it's just it's a lot of money to to to go down a
[48:55] path to to create something
[48:58] that like to cman Winkler's Point other
[49:01] organizations already have existing
[49:02] plans that we could mirror better or
[49:06] again include people we're including
[49:08] people that are not typical and Bolton
[49:10] Said that too and a matter of fact in
[49:12] Plan Three which is what the council
[49:14] wanted Bolton very specifically said
[49:16] that this was probably a decrease in
[49:17] benefits to the public works team I
[49:19] don't remember him saying it's actually
[49:21] in it's actually in the report
[49:23] underneath Plan Three it says in writing
[49:26] this is probably decrease in
[49:28] benefits and that's the one that the
[49:30] council picked
[49:35] anyway any other comment yes absolutely
[49:39] um thank you for
[49:43] your um contextual analysis from what I
[49:47] hear you are saying today that you and I
[49:54] don't think Council found Bolton to do
[49:56] the analysis right you guys presented
[50:00] Bolton to give us the analysis right who found
[50:06] Bolton how did Bolton end up Captain
[50:09] Norris what's that Captain
[50:12] norrison all right so
[50:15] Bolton they have no idea what they're
[50:17] talking about essentially is what I'm no that's not what I'm saying Bolton gave us what we asked
[50:22] for which was very high level concepts
[50:25] of things that we might be able to do in
[50:26] some world but you're you're telling us
[50:29] today that that you can come up with a
[50:33] plan that gives us everything we're
[50:36] looking for and more at a fraction of a
[50:39] cost that isn't going to require any
[50:42] thirdparty vendors it's not going to
[50:45] require any legal oversight it's not
[50:48] going to require you know maintenance
[50:51] cost to anything that we're looking at
[50:53] from amret which we got today and from
[50:56] USI
[50:57] um is that that's what you're telling us
[50:59] that you've got something in mind that's
[51:02] going to
[51:03] eliminate any need for increase of taxes
[51:06] to provide benefits for the police
[51:08] department as well as Public Works yes
[51:11] and I believe Treasurer tried to present
[51:13] that as part of the budget process this
[51:15] year okay and that's of
[51:17] equal detail and insight as what what
[51:21] Bolton gave us is that fair I just want
[51:23] to make sure that we we understand
[51:26] because you're trying to tell us you've
[51:28] got it all figured out we're not paying
[51:30] attention what as to the needs of our
[51:33] Police Department what we're trying to
[51:34] tell you is there's other options but it
[51:36] requires the employees to have some
[51:40] fiscal responsibility meaning see a
[51:43] financial advisor every year to make
[51:45] sure they're on track by doing a
[51:47] contribution or a matching
[51:49] contribution um I'll just throw out
[51:51] numbers say the town says okay we're
[51:53] going to do 5% matching the employee
[51:55] does 5% that would be 10% going into a
[51:59] um contribution plan that the employee
[52:01] would build up over 25 years and if you
[52:05] look at rate of returns and how much
[52:07] risk the employee wants to take but they
[52:09] have to take some responsibility and
[52:11] monitor this so it's the town will be
[52:14] and then they also have more varieties
[52:16] on choices they can use the funds how
[52:18] they want when they want if they want to
[52:19] work longer if they want to take
[52:21] everything it gives them more options
[52:23] instead of having a defined plan
[52:27] they'd have a contribution plan aren't
[52:29] you
[52:31] assuming in making that analysis that is better for them than what the
[52:36] employee actually wants so for example
[52:39] when we look at other police departments
[52:41] throughout the state and locally that's
[52:44] not a comparable plan I'm not assuming
[52:47] anything but they already have a pension
[52:49] plan what it would do is give them
[52:51] another Avenue another another bucket to
[52:53] choose from instead of um saying well
[52:56] this is what you get this is all you get
[52:58] because this is what the plan is you
[52:59] have no say in how you're going to
[53:01] manage it how much it's going to make
[53:03] you have no say in it and it also gives
[53:07] the talent say okay we know exactly each
[53:09] year what it's going to cost us to
[53:12] provide this benefit to the employee but
[53:14] again it's it's saying well the employee
[53:17] needs to take some fiscal responsibility
[53:20] and the town will help them with
[53:23] that okay um
[53:28] councilwoman Bryant Ward asked for what
[53:31] the ask was of these companies can you
[53:34] remind me and I know we talked about
[53:36] this the other time how why the net was
[53:39] cast for the vendors to participate and
[53:41] trying to create this bolt-on plan that
[53:43] they said was feasible it's nobody we
[53:46] didn't ask them to create a unicorn we
[53:49] asked them to give us something that we
[53:51] could use but we've got we've got two
[53:54] you did what we asked you to do and we
[53:56] we're scheduling them to talk to us
[53:58] about it how are these the only two that
[54:00] responded out of 10 are these two that
[54:03] responded out of two no there's three
[54:05] other vendors that uh chose not to
[54:09] engage with us okay when I gave them
[54:12] what our ask was and I told them and I
[54:14] showed them the 12 bullet points that we
[54:15] wanted to make a plan out of um they
[54:19] either um stopped communicating or they
[54:21] declined to um
[54:23] participate and so these are the only
[54:25] two that are still
[54:27] left that I have asked that are willing
[54:29] to engage and to try how does this
[54:32] request go out that we send it writing
[54:34] do we make phone calls um so a lot of it
[54:37] was so I started by reaching out to
[54:41] Bolton and asked them for who they
[54:42] worked with I reached out to our Brokers
[54:44] and asked who their people work with I
[54:46] reached out to Mission square and asked
[54:48] who the who they have relationships with
[54:50] and each one provided me multiple
[54:52] sources so Mission Square provided me
[54:55] three options andf P had provided me two
[54:58] options um and then uh Bolton had
[55:02] reached out to some contacts and I never
[55:03] heard back from them so um so these are
[55:07] from existing sources that have
[55:08] relationships with people who do it who
[55:11] have given me those points of contacts
[55:13] okay and then from there you get the
[55:15] points of contact and
[55:17] then and then I reached out to to the
[55:19] points of contacts and I said hey here's
[55:21] what we're looking to do here's where
[55:23] we're starting from are you willing to
[55:26] help us um create this plan do we do
[55:29] that in
[55:30] writing emails I mean most of it was
[55:33] email communication um and then um once
[55:36] I made the initial contact then um a lot
[55:39] of the discussion happened via Zoom
[55:43] calls can I see those emails to the
[55:46] vendors set can we see those are you
[55:51] okay with that that's really going
[55:53] that's operations that's going beyond
[55:55] the scope of what the council is to do
[55:57] is to start going into communication on
[56:00] that and and to you know personally I
[56:03] feel like that's a questioning my
[56:04] Integrity of being able to ask for the
[56:06] right thing if if the council doubts
[56:08] that i' I've gone out and seek five and
[56:10] talked to multiple sources I believe
[56:13] that you did okay then why do we need I
[56:15] mean I don't understand what my emails
[56:17] are going to help I just want to make
[56:20] sure that we're on track what happens
[56:24] appar what appears to happen with this
[56:26] project and it may be the nature of the
[56:29] project itself is that one step leads to
[56:33] three studies which has been happening
[56:36] for the last I don't know six eight
[56:38] years um it seems strange to me and it
[56:43] that we paid Bolton and maybe this is
[56:47] maybe this
[56:48] is who who they are I guess is what
[56:53] we're we're hearing that we paid them
[56:54] all that money and they're not willing
[56:56] to communicate with us back as to what
[56:58] they've recommended so I'm trying to
[57:01] figure
[57:02] out but they they made a re that's all
[57:05] we asked them to do is make
[57:06] recommendations and then they did that
[57:08] so there's nothing more for Bolton to do
[57:10] they were never building a they were
[57:11] never buil having them build a plan was
[57:14] never part of the conversation
[57:15] understood but that's the basis for what
[57:19] we're trying to build and we're saying
[57:21] that that Foundation is not appropriate
[57:25] I have given all these vendors Bolton's
[57:27] plan right so they have seen exactly
[57:29] what Bolton gave us right so okay so
[57:34] typically if you've got one piece of
[57:37] information you give it to a separate
[57:39] expert and they say nah that doesn't
[57:42] work I've seen it where you go back to
[57:45] that first source of information and say
[57:48] hey they say this is a problem do you
[57:50] want to comment on that sounds like you
[57:52] tried to do that but they did not
[57:54] respond back
[57:56] um I talked to Tom last week with an
[57:58] email and his response was you know I
[58:01] said hey just for some clarity of what
[58:03] you did and and he said what they gave
[58:06] us was some highlevel concepts for
[58:09] somebody else to build a plan off of um
[58:12] you know they're I gave them you know I
[58:14] gave the amarant USI the information and like Bolton said they they did a lot
[58:19] of their work based on a lot of
[58:21] assumptions and some rough Actuarial
[58:23] data that is not the same Actuarial data
[58:25] that we will need to use once the plan
[58:27] is created because once we have a clear
[58:30] definition of of what the scope of that
[58:32] is going to be then another Actuarial
[58:36] will give us actual numbers of what the
[58:38] plan will be based off of when we look
[58:41] at these
[58:43] two
[58:44] um statement works that you've given us
[58:48] would you say they're Apples to Apples
[58:52] no
[58:53] um each one has a different approach you
[58:56] I is more of uh an all-in-one um
[59:00] organization so it'll be a one point of
[59:03] contact streamline they will manage all
[59:05] the moving parts for us whereas amaret
[59:08] is more of a u peac mail consultant
[59:12] where they will have they will reach out
[59:14] and have separate pieces um a separate
[59:17] trust a separate legal team a separate
[59:19] everything and communicate individually
[59:21] with each of those rather than under one
[59:24] umbrella because the
[59:26] I mean they're vastly different as to
[59:28] the maintenance and annual um but the
[59:32] request was the same they had all the
[59:34] same information and this is what they
[59:36] came back as their plan of this is how
[59:38] we would develop it based on on their
[59:41] area of expertises but to be clear and I
[59:44] just want to make sure I understand this
[59:47] is not for a this is not for the plan
[59:51] yet this is to develop a
[59:54] plan and this is the um expected cost to
[59:58] not only create the plan but then to
[59:59] maintain it once it is
[1:00:04] created I guess my big
[1:00:07] concern
[1:00:11] is as you've stated it it's Unique to us
[1:00:16] as a
[1:00:17] town it's Unique potentially
[1:00:21] to um the
[1:00:23] vendors and again going back say
[1:00:26] something that we had talked about on
[1:00:28] developers and traffic
[1:00:30] studies um you know is there an
[1:00:34] independent
[1:00:36] Source aside
[1:00:38] from um perhaps aside from the
[1:00:41] Departments and I say that in plural who
[1:00:44] can analyze these issues right I
[1:00:49] mean I mean and I don't know I don't
[1:00:53] know I'm concerned about it but
[1:00:57] have either of these been
[1:01:01] given
[1:01:04] uh the Miss Kennedy and Miss Larsson
[1:01:07] plan no because the council asked us to
[1:01:10] pursue Plan Three and so that's what I
[1:01:12] requested okay those are all questions I have
[1:01:17] thank you right any other questions just
[1:01:20] a quick question thank you uh so uh is
[1:01:23] there any participation by police
[1:01:25] department members or Public Works in
[1:01:27] any conversations you have so you
[1:01:29] understand their needs or their feelings
[1:01:31] we're not at that what this is wouldn't
[1:01:34] be part of that that conversation this
[1:01:36] is just developing a a a plan like
[1:01:41] this the the members of Public Works and
[1:01:43] police are
[1:01:45] not are not trained in the same way that
[1:01:49] HR and finance are in these areas so I
[1:01:52] don't we're not to what are their needs
[1:01:55] because the plan that we picked is clear
[1:01:57] about age
[1:01:59] requirements uh uh contribution
[1:02:02] requirements and those this the stuff
[1:02:04] that we have to to wrinkle out is not a
[1:02:07] decision from the Departments it's a
[1:02:09] decision uh from the operational side
[1:02:11] how much are we going to contribute when
[1:02:12] are we going to contribute to it are the
[1:02:14] employees going to have skin in the game
[1:02:15] are we grandfathering anybody that's
[1:02:18] nothing that involves the
[1:02:20] Departments I guess that just I'm
[1:02:23] disappointed by that because I think
[1:02:26] okay you're you're trying to build the
[1:02:28] plan but it it just seems to me that it
[1:02:30] would be great to have an ongoing
[1:02:32] dialogue with potential participants in any plan whatever it is so I'm really
[1:02:39] disappointed that there's no Outreach uh
[1:02:43] participation there just just a dialogue
[1:02:47] to talk and listen so and I would just
[1:02:49] add that as as another
[1:02:51] concern but again again councilman we're
[1:02:54] not in any state stage where where those
[1:02:58] are needed yet if we get further down
[1:03:01] the road then maybe that would make
[1:03:02] sense but right now well we're not there
[1:03:04] I respectfully disagree because
[1:03:08] again existing and potential future
[1:03:11] employees are going to be engage are
[1:03:13] going to be part of the process and
[1:03:16] they're going to be from my view again
[1:03:17] unless I'm getting it wrong and
[1:03:19] apparently I am they're going to be
[1:03:20] blindsided and they're going to have no
[1:03:22] knowledge no participation no
[1:03:27] they're going to be like blind almost so
[1:03:29] all I'm I agree with you this is maybe
[1:03:31] not the time but I would think as good
[1:03:34] best practices you would have a dialogue
[1:03:37] with the staff that's right but we don't
[1:03:39] do that for we don't do that for any
[1:03:41] other benefit we don't do that for
[1:03:42] health insurance decisions we don't do
[1:03:44] that for I'm not going to argue with you
[1:03:46] I this different I'm just trying to
[1:03:48] express my disappointment and and and my
[1:03:50] ask is that there be a dialogue simple
[1:03:53] very simple thank you okay councilman
[1:03:58] Jenkins way before the plan that was
[1:04:02] decided to move
[1:04:04] forward we had the conversations with
[1:04:06] the police department and what they were
[1:04:08] looking for they were looking for the
[1:04:09] age they were looking
[1:04:11] for not having to work 30 years extra so
[1:04:16] did have those conversations prior to we
[1:04:19] haven't had any sense but we did have
[1:04:22] those conversations I didn't say we
[1:04:25] didn't the say why can't you continue
[1:04:28] well maybe once we get like uh director
[1:04:31] Kennedy said at this point it's more
[1:04:34] operational get the plan going first and
[1:04:37] then
[1:04:39] but well I I still like express my
[1:04:44] disappoint all right well thank you well
[1:04:47] we look forward to um seeing what
[1:04:50] happens in January thank you for a very
[1:04:53] robust conversation appreciate that
[1:04:56] moving on to our next part is a reports
[1:04:58] from the mayor and Town Council
[1:05:02] councilman
[1:05:03] Winkler um historic preservation
[1:05:06] committee um met with a local architect
[1:05:10] regarding some of the updates to uh the
[1:05:13] train station and a feasibility study so
[1:05:17] once we um about kind of finishing off
[1:05:20] that as a as a potential Museum um to
[1:05:23] how some of the historic uh artifact for
[1:05:25] the town um and once we get that
[1:05:29] information back we'll have that to uh
[1:05:32] hopefully in January or February to
[1:05:34] present to council for moving forward
[1:05:36] with it great thank you very much
[1:05:39] councilman
[1:05:40] challinger no nothing thank you
[1:05:42] councilwoman ryant Ward so I'm I
[1:05:45] reported on the Planning Commission last
[1:05:46] week but I wanted to report that the
[1:05:48] chief and I did me to talk about the DCC
[1:05:52] and I completed all of the past due
[1:05:54] annual reports reports that need to be
[1:05:56] submitted I'm going to bring them up for
[1:05:59] um to talk with um assistant Town
[1:06:02] manager Miner um so that we can get
[1:06:05] those filed and then we did discuss
[1:06:07] going forward you know a new board that
[1:06:10] would represent the entire community and
[1:06:12] then looking at having establishing um
[1:06:15] board meetings because we would need to
[1:06:17] do that once we're back in good
[1:06:19] standings based upon the annual filings
[1:06:21] then we'll look to revise the bylaws and
[1:06:25] in the Articles of Incorporation and um
[1:06:28] identify a new resident agent and so
[1:06:31] that we get things moving again well
[1:06:33] thank you and thank you for all your
[1:06:35] hard work that's great councilman
[1:06:38] Jenkins uh thank you and councilman
[1:06:40] Brian W thank you for that effort that's
[1:06:42] really good I appreciate that effort I
[1:06:44] know it takes a lot of work to do that
[1:06:46] um I was not able to attend Wednesday's
[1:06:49] last Wednesday's um Tri County council's
[1:06:52] Bicycle pedestrian infrastructure
[1:06:54] committee meeting unfor I was in transit
[1:06:56] so I could not attend but I will provide
[1:06:59] a uh report out from that meeting at our
[1:07:02] next meeting because this there will as
[1:07:04] we all know there will be a significant
[1:07:06] impact on pedestrian safety projects all
[1:07:09] over the state because of the
[1:07:10] significant uh budget cuts to the
[1:07:13] Maryland Department of transportation's
[1:07:15] budget so I'll give a report in January
[1:07:17] thank you thank you and I had the great
[1:07:21] pleasure and honor of attending
[1:07:23] Washington squares holiday event over
[1:07:25] the weekend which boy those people can
[1:07:28] cook and uh it was really nice and they
[1:07:30] are just always so grateful for the town
[1:07:35] um when they apply for Grants to that
[1:07:38] they are recipients of those at least
[1:07:40] they have been for the last couple years
[1:07:42] so they wanted me to thank you all and
[1:07:45] so I just have um this is our last
[1:07:48] meeting of 2024 so as we conclude this I
[1:07:52] wanted to take a moment to acknowledge
[1:07:55] the hard work and dedication of our town
[1:07:58] staff you all have been absolutely
[1:08:02] amazing this year we weathered some
[1:08:04] storms didn't we we said goodbye to our
[1:08:07] dear friend and colleague Jeff Garner we
[1:08:10] also saw several key team members move
[1:08:13] on to advance their careers a bitter
[1:08:16] bittersweet Part of growth and success
[1:08:19] and we continue to address important
[1:08:21] issues such as water allocation
[1:08:23] development within our Incorporated Town
[1:08:26] limits in infrastructure that tends to
[1:08:30] fail at the most inopportune times and
[1:08:34] Personnel changes but together we made
[1:08:36] it through this year and you know what
[1:08:38] maybe next year's going to be a little
[1:08:41] less hectic so I would also like to
[1:08:44] recognize Carolyn Johnson who is
[1:08:47] retiring after almost 24 years of
[1:08:51] dedicated service to the town of L pla
[1:08:55] her retirement is well well deserved and
[1:08:57] we wish her nothing but the best in her
[1:09:01] next chapter of her life um she will
[1:09:03] leave a mark here on Town um she was
[1:09:07] quite uh she is quite the presence here
[1:09:10] and she will be greatly missed looking
[1:09:12] ahead to 2025 holds exciting
[1:09:16] opportunities for our town we will
[1:09:17] continue collaborating with the county
[1:09:19] on the library and water
[1:09:21] allocations make strides towards
[1:09:24] creating a more walk downtown expand the
[1:09:27] bike trail that is going down um on
[1:09:30] Radio Station Road and work to make
[1:09:32] bring a greater presence of the Arts
[1:09:35] into the home into our hometown which
[1:09:37] should we should see something visible
[1:09:40] in the first quarter so I personally
[1:09:43] want to wish you all and your families
[1:09:46] the very best may you enjoy a joyous
[1:09:50] holiday season and a prosperous healthy
[1:09:53] new year thank you and
[1:09:56] um again thank you for uh all that you
[1:09:59] do for the town and with that I call
[1:10:02] this meeting adjourned at
[1:10:05] 7:09 have a good night