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Thank you. It is 6:00 PM,
the town of the Plata Planning Commission

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is called to order.

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Madam Clerk, would you please?

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Perform roll call for form verification
purposes.

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Certainly, ma'am, Commissioner, banks.

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Here here.

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Commissioner hardnell.

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Councilman guttenberg.

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Here here.

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Commissioner Wale.

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Here.

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Commissioner Miller.

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Here.

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Commissioner Ford is absent. Madam Mayor.
Madam Chair, you have the quorum.

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Thank you.

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Commissioner, well,
would you lead us in the Pledge of

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Allegiance, please?

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In the black community.

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Which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible,

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with liberty and justice for all.

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Thank you, ma'am.

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We're gonna move to the approval of the
meeting minutes from our August 5th 2026

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meeting.

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Have all the Commissioners and Councilman
Goodenberg review the minutes from our

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August 5th meeting.

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Yes, yes, yes, thank you.
With the exception of Commissioner Miller.

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Is there a motion to approve the Minutes
as is?

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And or are there any changes or
corrections?

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I'll motion to approve the Minutes from
the August 5th meeting with no

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corrections or additions.

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Is there a second second?

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Councilman Gutenberg, what say you? Yes.

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Right. Sarah hudnall? Yes, Commissioner,
will.

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Yes, I am a yes.

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The Minutes of our August 5th meeting
have been approved in.

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Unanimously.

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It only took the third time.

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Thank you.

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Next on the agenda is the ex parte
disclosure.

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For the purposes of this disclosure,
have any of the Commissioners or

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counseling engaged in any off the record?

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Communications with applicants,
developers, stakeholders, neighbors,

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or other friends regarding any other
projects before the Commission or outside

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of the public hearing process.

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Councilman gutenberg. Was that you?

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No vice chair hudnell,
no commissioner Wale.

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None other than what's listed in the
staff report for the subcommittee.

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Can you elaborate?

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So we met on the subcommittee.

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So that's the only. Yeah,
that's the only conversation that I've

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had. OK, commissioner. No. And now that,
have I we got to pause here to to do the

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public comment.

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Are there any public comments?

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OK.

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There are none, so we will move on.

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Next on the agenda is old business.

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Which is the zoning text amendment
03/20/26.

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The Water Conservation Ordinance director
Dooley let me turn to you on this.

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Thank you, chair banks.

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What I'd like to do is to go through and
do a presentation on the change that have

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been made to the text of the draft
ordinance as it's presented to you

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tonight.

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And then I'll introduce some additional
comments that were provided today by

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Council liaison Gutenberg.

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So if I go to the slides.

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There we go. Next slide please.

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So this is zoning text, Amendment 03,
Dash 2026.

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This is a request to do a couple things.

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1st it's to add Article 11 the water
conservation and Emergency Restrictions

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Ordinance to chapter one,
91191 zoning of Lopel to municipal code

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for the purpose of providing regulatory
provisions for water conservation

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measures and to add emergency
restrictions on water use during a town

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decl.

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Water conservation alert.

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And secondly, it's to amend Chapter 191.

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48 landscaping, a little plate,
a municipal code for the purpose of

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facilitating water conservation.
Measures related to the installation of

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new landscaping for residential and non
residential developments.

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Next slide.

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In September of 2025,
the town council sought to ensure

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adequate public facility infrastructure
for new development apfo standards for

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water, sewer school,
seating capacity and roads were

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subsequently developed and adopted by the
town council earlier this year and are

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now codified. Next slide.

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Because of the Maryland Department of the
Environment will not expand the town's

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groundwater permit without supplemental
water resources.

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The town is in the process of advancing a
three-part water management strategy that

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includes our recently completed.

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Adequate public facilities ordinances,
which includes water negotiating a

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supplemental water agreement with the
county, which is in process,

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and 3rd developing a formal water
developing formal water conservation

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policy.

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Which are proposed under this Sony text
amendment. Next slide please.

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Give you a little bit of background since
we last met on this in June of 2026,

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the draft Water Conservation Ordinance
was introduced to the Commission for

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initial discussion the following month.
On July 7th,

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the Commission agreed that the draft
ordinance is an appropriate tool for.

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Managing water,
the Commission emphasized the draft

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ordinance must be reasonable, logical,
non punitive and aligned with state

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drought policies.

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A Planning Commission subcommittee,
composed of Commissioners,

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whale and banks,
was formed to help direct and refine the

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ordinance originally presented to the
Commission.

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The subcommittee met on July 20 on July
30th and August 13th, 2026.

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For the purposes of again of directing
and refining the ordinance.

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Based on those meetings.

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The subcommittee subsequently.

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Directed staff to make.

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Specific changes to the original draft
ordinance,

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which is now being presented tonight.

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Probably the most significant refinement
to the ordinance was taken to provide

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closer alignment with the state's
mandatory as the state's level 1

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mandatory water use restrictions for
consistency.

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With our work with this proposed
ordinance and state policy.

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Next slide.

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So under zoning text, Amendment 03,
Dash 2026,

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two sets of code amendments are proposed.

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The text amendments would be incorporated
within the following portions of Chapter

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191 of the town's municipal code or
zoning code. In this case,

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it's Chapter 191 zoning section 191.
48 for landscaping and.

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Staff would be proposing Article 11 to
section 191 zoning for water conservation.

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And emergency restrictions. Next slide.

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So beginning with section 19148.

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A&B for landscaping.

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Aside from modifying the provision
requiring 2 to 3 inches of mulch to be

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used for new landscaping,
no changes were made or suggested made by

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the subcommittee subsection 5 or Excuse
me,

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Subsection B5 now states that planning
bed shall include sufficient mulch to

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reduce water to red.

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Evaporation.

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So to provide a little bit more
flexibility in terms of the amount of

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mulch the the subcommittee felt,
it was a little bit too granular to get

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into those levels of details. Next slide.

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So most of the proposed changes are under
article proposed under Article 11 Section

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191.

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And to start with.

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Section 19198 a.

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The purpose, applicability,
and definition section,

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section A3 triple I was modified to
include land use such as data centers,

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hotels,
and motels as additional examples of

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designated large volume users.

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And again,
these were just more to identify.

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By other types of land uses.

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And that.

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Are typically designed large volume users.
Next slide.

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So no changes were proposed by the
subcommittee under the heading of

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declaration and rescission of Water
Conservation Alert next slide.

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Under the section 19198 C mandatory
outdoor water limitations,

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underwater Conservation alert heading the
PC subcommittee recommended the following

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that the town CEO or town manager may
adjust watering hours from the proposed

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standard from 6:00 PM.

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To 10:00 AM during a water conservation
alert for flexibility to the grass,

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watering is prohibited except as allowed
under the state's level 1 criteria.

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And.

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For the Commission's reference,
the the all of the state level 1 criteria

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was part of your package that was
included,

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so you can you can reference that and
then third exceptions have been

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introduced for water and grass in certain
cases.

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Such As for new sod installation,
agriculture when water conservation plan

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is in place and when water shut off
valves and drip irrigation systems are

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used for watering next slide.

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Under the heading prohibition of non
essential water use under a water

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conservation alert,
the following changes were suggestion.

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The section was expanded to prohibit
washing of paved surfaces such as patios,

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decks,
garages except for public health purposes.

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Which aligns with the state level 1
mandatory restrictions.

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It also prohibits mobile vehicle washing,
except for car washes that use recycled

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water or have a water conservation plan
in place and for essential maintenance of

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EMS vehicles like fire trucks,
police cars, whatnot,

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as well as public transportation and
construction equipment so that the the

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people can see.

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Out the vehicles for driving,
among other reasons.

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Next slide.

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Under recreational and decorative water
use under a water conservation alert.

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The use of reflecting pools was added to
recreational water features,

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which are prohibited under the draft
ordinance except when water is

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recirculated and then secondly,
the subcommittee added misting machines

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as a prohibited use of water because
there's no ability to recycle that next

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slide.

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Under the heading of water service to
patrons,

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this was added by the by the subcommittee
and it aligns with state guidelines,

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and it's it's concerning the service of
tap water or drinking water and eating

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established establishments are prohibited
except when requested by patrons,

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which is a fairly common.

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Water. Water.

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Limitation.

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Provision in in other communities.
Next slide.

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Under the heading large volume,
commercial,

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industrial and institutional users
underwater conservation alert.

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For large.

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For large volume users,
a minimum 10% water reduction goal was

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added to the draft ordinance as an
objective goal during water conservation

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alert. If required by the town manager.

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This is again consistent with state
guidelines.

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The Water Conservation Plan would
demonstrate.

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How reduced water?

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Our usage would be achieved in contrast
to comparable periods of the of this

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during the same year for prior years.

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00:13:03,257 --> 00:13:03,817
Next line.

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There were no recommended changes under
emergency and health safety exemptions.

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In the draft ordinance, next slide.

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There are also no recommended changes
under the heading of relationship with

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alternative systems.

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Next slide.

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Water systems repairs was added to the
draft ordinance,

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and this provision specifies that
property owners of that property owners

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address any known water leaks on their
property as soon as practicable.

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To give them time to organize and collect
resources,

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they need to make necessary repairs.
So if there's ongoing water leaks on the

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property, they're known,
we'd like for the the community to or

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property owners to fix those as soon as
possible.

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00:13:58,897 --> 00:13:59,617
Next slide.

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00:14:01,467 --> 00:14:06,468
Under enforcement and penalties,
an advisory position provision was added

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00:14:06,468 --> 00:14:11,673
to the draft ordinance to state that a
common sense approach shall be taken.

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00:14:11,673 --> 00:14:16,472
Reasonable enforcement of the water
conservation provisions under this

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00:14:16,472 --> 00:14:19,987
article and the the idea behind that was
really to.

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00:14:22,307 --> 00:14:28,601
Provide or to set a tone for the spirit
of the necessary of any necessary

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00:14:28,601 --> 00:14:30,387
enforcement activity.

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00:14:30,777 --> 00:14:36,057
It's it's not to to go out and and harass
proper owners at all.

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It's just meant to say, look, you know,
if somebody worked with the property

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owner, there's a known problem out there.

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But not, you know, not over overly.

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Not overly be demanding.

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Let's work with the property owner.

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That's that's really at the heart of what
the intent is here.

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Next slide.

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00:14:58,347 --> 00:15:00,827
No changes were proposed under
Severability.

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00:15:02,377 --> 00:15:05,616
The next slide,
underwater exemption or excuse me

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00:15:05,616 --> 00:15:08,337
underwater hardship exemption application.

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00:15:08,457 --> 00:15:13,995
The PC Subcommittee Committee provided
provisions to create a more structured

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00:15:13,995 --> 00:15:19,605
process that gives the Chief executive
Officer Town manager guidance on how to

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00:15:19,605 --> 00:15:25,285
evaluate a request for exemptions to one
or more of the provisions of the draft

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water ordinance,
and then the ability to appeal the town

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00:15:29,333 --> 00:15:29,617
man.

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00:15:29,697 --> 00:15:31,697
'S decision to the Board of Appeals.

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00:15:31,817 --> 00:15:35,596
If he or she denies a water hardship
exemption application,

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and again this the process is to give
appellants greater due process than the

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00:15:40,509 --> 00:15:45,358
prior draft ordinance did to promote
fairness in in reasonable consideration

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00:15:45,358 --> 00:15:48,697
of water usage concerns by any member of
the public.

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00:15:50,467 --> 00:15:51,587
And next slide.

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And as I mentioned earlier,
the Commissioner liaison, Gutenberg,

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did provide some additional comments or
his comments today, which were.

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00:16:05,227 --> 00:16:10,307
Before you as a hard copy and also added
to the town's website.

244
00:16:12,027 --> 00:16:14,938
Staff has not received any other
Commissioner comments on on this

245
00:16:14,938 --> 00:16:16,747
particular zoning ordinance at this time.

246
00:16:18,587 --> 00:16:22,307
These comments have been should be excuse
me.

247
00:16:22,657 --> 00:16:26,390
The Commission should consider these
comments in addition, to course,

248
00:16:26,390 --> 00:16:30,497
any feedback received tonight by other
members of the Commission next slide.

249
00:16:33,117 --> 00:16:37,702
SAS recommendation is subject to the
Commission's feedback and the revisions

250
00:16:37,702 --> 00:16:41,930
on the current draft and the revisions on
the current draft ordinance.

251
00:16:41,930 --> 00:16:46,694
The Commission should direct staff on
whether or not the Commission is ready to

252
00:16:46,694 --> 00:16:50,387
proceed with a public hearing on zoning
text Amendment 03/20.

253
00:16:50,387 --> 00:16:54,745
26 for the October 6, 2026,
Planning Commission meeting,

254
00:16:54,745 --> 00:16:57,957
which is your next meeting following this.

255
00:16:58,667 --> 00:16:59,227
So with that.

256
00:17:00,987 --> 00:17:01,307
You have.

257
00:17:03,147 --> 00:17:03,867
Commissioner.

258
00:17:04,177 --> 00:17:07,297
Commission liaison Gutenberg's comments.

259
00:17:08,827 --> 00:17:12,133
If you have any questions,
happy to answer them at this time.

260
00:17:12,133 --> 00:17:12,667
Thank you.

261
00:17:14,417 --> 00:17:19,604
Before I turn to my colleagues here,
I just want to make one correction.

262
00:17:19,604 --> 00:17:23,228
For the record.
You said that the subcommittee was

263
00:17:23,228 --> 00:17:27,137
comprised of Commissioner well and
Commissioner banks.

264
00:17:27,137 --> 00:17:30,097
It's actually, Commissioner,
will and Commissioner Ford.

265
00:17:31,907 --> 00:17:32,747
I'm I apologize.

266
00:17:32,747 --> 00:17:35,027
Yes, Commissioner, I was looking.

267
00:17:35,027 --> 00:17:36,227
I think I was looking at you.

268
00:17:37,867 --> 00:17:38,507
Yes, it's commissioner.

269
00:17:38,857 --> 00:17:41,311
Commissioner Ford and Commissioner whale
well,

270
00:17:41,311 --> 00:17:44,497
actually it was written in the in your
presentation. Oh, OK.

271
00:17:44,977 --> 00:17:47,497
So Mark, my apologies.

272
00:17:47,777 --> 00:17:49,657
No worries, I'll take credit.

273
00:17:51,787 --> 00:17:54,987
So let me turn to again my colleagues
here.

274
00:17:55,027 --> 00:17:58,107
Commissioner Miller, any thoughts?
Any comments?

275
00:18:02,347 --> 00:18:04,067
Yeah. Good evening.

276
00:18:04,147 --> 00:18:04,747
Good to see you.

277
00:18:04,747 --> 00:18:08,427
I was here not here last week or last
month.

278
00:18:09,947 --> 00:18:14,873
I do think that the Subcommittee and the
staff did a a good job addressing a lot

279
00:18:14,873 --> 00:18:15,907
of consideration.

280
00:18:15,907 --> 00:18:19,467
I think most of my initial comments from
the June meeting.

281
00:18:21,107 --> 00:18:24,618
Were addressed.
So if I repeat anything that we talked

282
00:18:24,618 --> 00:18:27,747
about,
I apologize from from the August meeting.

283
00:18:30,667 --> 00:18:31,267
For.

284
00:18:33,507 --> 00:18:39,676
Did did we discuss a sunset clause like
for to like a 60 day sunset clause,

285
00:18:39,676 --> 00:18:41,787
or is it still indefinite?

286
00:18:42,137 --> 00:18:45,337
Or was there any discussion or reason why?

287
00:18:45,337 --> 00:18:49,457
Well, the well, the sunset,
there is no specific sunset clause.

288
00:18:49,457 --> 00:18:53,577
The the the water Conservation Alert
would be.

289
00:18:55,107 --> 00:18:55,467
Would be.

290
00:18:57,507 --> 00:18:58,507
There be a subsequent.

291
00:18:58,507 --> 00:19:01,809
Ultimately,
there'd be a subsequent announcement when

292
00:19:01,809 --> 00:19:05,907
it would no longer be in effect if that's,
but I'm not quite sure.

293
00:19:05,907 --> 00:19:07,987
Otherwise, it could be just indefinite.

294
00:19:08,887 --> 00:19:10,447
Alert the well.

295
00:19:10,447 --> 00:19:15,101
The alert would be rescinded at at some
point when there was no longer the need

296
00:19:15,101 --> 00:19:19,232
for the water conservation alert,
and that would that would be largely

297
00:19:19,232 --> 00:19:21,327
based on following the state's path.

298
00:19:24,587 --> 00:19:27,495
And did we discuss any metrics of how we
wanna,

299
00:19:27,495 --> 00:19:30,707
how we can measure the effectiveness of
the program?

300
00:19:32,977 --> 00:19:39,926
Like we expect it to reduce consumption
by 10% and then we could show that, hey,

301
00:19:39,926 --> 00:19:44,817
this plan is actually successful and the
following ways.

302
00:19:46,867 --> 00:19:49,538
To answer your your question straight up,
no,

303
00:19:49,538 --> 00:19:52,267
there's there's no specific analysis for
that.

304
00:19:52,467 --> 00:19:55,467
It's sort of a little bit difficult a
little bit.

305
00:19:57,227 --> 00:20:00,750
Challenging to to make certain
assumptions and how we would actually go

306
00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:02,267
out and force and measure that.

307
00:20:02,817 --> 00:20:09,502
We do know that that we can measure water
use by by by building cycle and actually

308
00:20:09,502 --> 00:20:14,415
reading the meters.
But the only fundamental water reduction

309
00:20:14,415 --> 00:20:20,697
that we could measure is if we wanted to
have a water conservation reduction.

310
00:20:21,827 --> 00:20:28,181
Of 10% to for like large users or for car
washes that don't have recycled water for

311
00:20:28,181 --> 00:20:28,787
example.

312
00:20:28,787 --> 00:20:29,627
Because we can.

313
00:20:29,667 --> 00:20:35,603
We can identify what their usage was at
the same time during the prior year and

314
00:20:35,603 --> 00:20:41,316
what measures that they would use in
order to reduce that water down by 10%.

315
00:20:41,316 --> 00:20:47,178
But aside from the overall overarching
ordinance to actually say this is going

316
00:20:47,178 --> 00:20:48,737
to reduce water by a.

317
00:20:48,737 --> 00:20:49,307
Certain percentage now.

318
00:20:49,977 --> 00:20:50,297
And and that would be.

319
00:20:50,807 --> 00:20:54,657
A bit challenging perhaps to do so.
I'm not sure what that metric would

320
00:20:54,657 --> 00:20:55,567
really look like.

321
00:20:55,887 --> 00:21:00,007
I saw that it was mostly like meter
readings is.

322
00:21:01,457 --> 00:21:05,338
Like the primary way,
but there would be no way to make a

323
00:21:05,338 --> 00:21:08,750
distinction of this individual or entity
violated.

324
00:21:08,750 --> 00:21:14,036
The they weren't in compliance versus
maybe they just had extra family members

325
00:21:14,036 --> 00:21:15,977
in for that week or whatever.

326
00:21:15,977 --> 00:21:16,897
There would be no.

327
00:21:16,897 --> 00:21:18,930
I mean,
I like how we added the common sense

328
00:21:18,930 --> 00:21:19,337
approach.

329
00:21:22,427 --> 00:21:24,100
Yeah,
there would just be no way to make a

330
00:21:24,100 --> 00:21:25,307
distinction from meter reading.

331
00:21:26,817 --> 00:21:29,809
That's not all we can do. I mean,
you know,

332
00:21:29,809 --> 00:21:33,617
part of the part of the ordinance is is
intended to be.

333
00:21:35,897 --> 00:21:40,422
It for it's it's certainly it's the
ordinances tend to be enforceable but

334
00:21:40,422 --> 00:21:45,253
it's it's also meant to to collaborate
with the community and and part of that

335
00:21:45,253 --> 00:21:48,617
collaboration means education providing
you know some.

336
00:21:50,177 --> 00:21:51,697
At least if there is a.

337
00:21:52,707 --> 00:21:57,823
A water issue to work with the property
owner to help them understand what the

338
00:21:57,823 --> 00:22:02,227
ordinance is and what the the public
policy is intended to achieve.

339
00:22:03,657 --> 00:22:07,417
To to get their sort of get their
attention and cooperation understanding.

340
00:22:09,017 --> 00:22:14,839
And so it's it's not meant to, you know,
immediately try to, you know enact,

341
00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:18,620
you know,
draconian efforts to get them to reduce

342
00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:19,377
the water.

343
00:22:20,097 --> 00:22:22,057
So it's it's there, it's.

344
00:22:22,487 --> 00:22:27,320
That you would be there to to use as a as
the legislative backup to deal with,

345
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,174
but it's fundamentally it's.
I think there's a lot of personal

346
00:22:31,174 --> 00:22:35,701
relationships that need to be developed
to help facilitate and successful

347
00:22:35,701 --> 00:22:38,087
implementation. If there were problems.

348
00:22:39,537 --> 00:22:40,817
Yeah, I appreciate that.

349
00:22:40,817 --> 00:22:41,697
That part of it.

350
00:22:41,817 --> 00:22:49,372
Is there a my last question for now would
be the conservation plan that an entity

351
00:22:49,372 --> 00:22:50,017
or the.

352
00:22:51,737 --> 00:22:51,977
Would.

353
00:22:52,607 --> 00:22:57,007
Possibly submit?
Would there be any template or?

354
00:22:58,577 --> 00:23:02,297
Any way to say this is what you need to
have outlined?

355
00:23:03,937 --> 00:23:08,608
For a conservation plan to be accepted,
or that's something we have not done at

356
00:23:08,608 --> 00:23:11,644
this point,
if the ordinance is ultimately adopted,

357
00:23:11,644 --> 00:23:14,097
we'll have to develop some administrative.

358
00:23:15,857 --> 00:23:17,897
Policies for how we would achieve that.

359
00:23:18,407 --> 00:23:23,447
And I think that's more of a minor,
a minor that makes sense.

360
00:23:23,447 --> 00:23:27,143
Policy development.
This might be out of scope,

361
00:23:27,143 --> 00:23:28,607
but do we have any?

362
00:23:30,687 --> 00:23:36,064
Kind of sense of an additional
administrative burden this might put on

363
00:23:36,064 --> 00:23:36,367
the.

364
00:23:37,847 --> 00:23:38,447
On the department.

365
00:23:39,937 --> 00:23:40,337
Well, it's.

366
00:23:43,937 --> 00:23:46,377
At this point, I would. I would.

367
00:23:47,297 --> 00:23:49,137
I can't for the planning department.

368
00:23:49,177 --> 00:23:51,217
No, it will really has no additional.

369
00:23:52,697 --> 00:23:55,770
Significant impact where it's really
going to impact potentially its Co

370
00:23:55,770 --> 00:23:57,776
enforcement,
which is in a different different

371
00:23:57,776 --> 00:23:59,057
department than planning, but.

372
00:24:01,377 --> 00:24:05,135
The Water Conservation Ordinance,
I wouldn't expect to have any,

373
00:24:05,135 --> 00:24:07,737
any significant impact on either
department.

374
00:24:07,817 --> 00:24:11,649
Ultimately,
I don't really expect you know that to

375
00:24:11,649 --> 00:24:13,377
have a recurring issue.

376
00:24:13,807 --> 00:24:18,418
User alerts on a normal basis. I mean,
we're going to have them from time to

377
00:24:18,418 --> 00:24:22,191
time if there's if there's code
enforcements made aware of it,

378
00:24:22,191 --> 00:24:25,665
as we always do,
we always pretty collaborate pretty well

379
00:24:25,665 --> 00:24:28,719
together.
And and I just don't see any significant

380
00:24:28,719 --> 00:24:29,857
impact on staff on.

381
00:24:29,857 --> 00:24:30,727
This one OK.

382
00:24:30,727 --> 00:24:32,527
I appreciate that.

383
00:24:32,527 --> 00:24:36,902
I think most of most of my initial
comments were addressed in in some form,

384
00:24:36,902 --> 00:24:38,687
so I don't have any additional.

385
00:24:39,377 --> 00:24:40,017
Comments any further.

386
00:24:42,527 --> 00:24:48,582
Thank you, Commissioner wheel.
I do not have any additional comments.

387
00:24:48,582 --> 00:24:49,447
Thank you.

388
00:24:49,607 --> 00:24:50,567
I have a couple.

389
00:24:52,777 --> 00:24:53,457
Questions.

390
00:24:55,137 --> 00:24:58,126
As part of the staff report in the
background, we,

391
00:24:58,126 --> 00:25:00,177
the very last sentence talks about.

392
00:25:02,617 --> 00:25:08,614
Why we believe that or why staff believes
it's appropriate to consider developing

393
00:25:08,614 --> 00:25:12,417
this ordinance and it says at the end
particularly.

394
00:25:12,727 --> 00:25:19,733
In a state declared drought,
would there be an other reason we would

395
00:25:19,733 --> 00:25:20,647
use this?

396
00:25:22,137 --> 00:25:22,777
For this ordinance, no.

397
00:25:24,537 --> 00:25:24,697
OK.

398
00:25:24,697 --> 00:25:27,757
It's it's.
It's really intended to align with again

399
00:25:27,757 --> 00:25:28,817
with state policy.

400
00:25:30,337 --> 00:25:34,601
When there's a water conservation alert,
we also want to be able to have

401
00:25:34,601 --> 00:25:37,990
enforcement abilities,
but align also with the with state

402
00:25:37,990 --> 00:25:39,217
requirements as well.

403
00:25:41,047 --> 00:25:44,647
Maybe I'm being pedantic.
When I when I see,

404
00:25:44,647 --> 00:25:47,927
particularly in a state declared drought.

405
00:25:51,047 --> 00:25:54,172
Why?
Why would we use the word particularly

406
00:25:54,172 --> 00:25:54,527
just?

407
00:25:54,527 --> 00:25:56,687
It was just a choice of words, OK?

408
00:25:56,967 --> 00:26:00,367
There's no,
there's no intended or implied.

409
00:26:02,657 --> 00:26:06,657
Heightened sense of of urgency.
Using that word I could have.

410
00:26:06,657 --> 00:26:09,297
I could have simply used the word in
addition to.

411
00:26:11,017 --> 00:26:17,851
Or when or when in estate. OK, declare a.
My other question is kind of goes to what,

412
00:26:17,851 --> 00:26:18,897
Commissioner?

413
00:26:19,247 --> 00:26:21,127
Will saying under the.

414
00:26:23,097 --> 00:26:30,022
The water system repairs where we talk
about homeowners or development leaks and

415
00:26:30,022 --> 00:26:36,948
are we looking for self reporting or are
we back to looking at meter usage if we

416
00:26:36,948 --> 00:26:43,874
see if somebody in public works sees hey,
they used this amount of water and now

417
00:26:43,874 --> 00:26:46,097
they're tripling it there.

418
00:26:46,097 --> 00:26:46,737
Must be a leak somewhere.

419
00:26:48,007 --> 00:26:50,875
That it it could be in in that particular
case,

420
00:26:50,875 --> 00:26:54,879
if somebody is Bill is is escalating and
we're become aware of it,

421
00:26:54,879 --> 00:26:59,301
that might be a reason for code
enforcement or public Works department to

422
00:26:59,301 --> 00:27:02,887
go out and look to see if there was,
if there's a water le.

423
00:27:02,887 --> 00:27:07,207
That's either that that's associated with
a particular property.

424
00:27:08,697 --> 00:27:09,897
Does that happen routinely?

425
00:27:11,047 --> 00:27:15,566
I can't answer to tell you I can't answer
how routinely that OK may or may not

426
00:27:15,566 --> 00:27:15,967
happen.

427
00:27:16,647 --> 00:27:21,939
I know that in often times you have
property owners that have sprinkles

428
00:27:21,939 --> 00:27:25,247
sprinklers the the sprinkler head is
broken.

429
00:27:26,657 --> 00:27:29,136
And and so you'll see a trail of water,
you know,

430
00:27:29,136 --> 00:27:32,657
leading down the sidewalk or onto
somebody onto the grass or whatever.

431
00:27:34,417 --> 00:27:38,630
And it's just basically to say, hey,
if you have a water leak or we identify a

432
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:39,217
water leak.

433
00:27:39,727 --> 00:27:43,884
We want you to try to fix it as soon as
you can, but we're not gonna be overly,

434
00:27:43,884 --> 00:27:45,287
overly aggressive about it.

435
00:27:48,197 --> 00:27:48,597
OK.

436
00:27:48,677 --> 00:27:49,517
I'll stop right there.

437
00:27:49,517 --> 00:27:52,117
Let me turn to you right. Sure. Hold on.

438
00:27:54,057 --> 00:27:59,049
I just have one question and I believe
one of my questions kind of piggybacks on

439
00:27:59,049 --> 00:28:02,377
yours, Commissioner Gutenberg.
Councilman guttenberg.

440
00:28:02,377 --> 00:28:04,657
But so I'm going to stay away from that
one.

441
00:28:04,657 --> 00:28:07,466
I'm going to let you have it.
The one that I have though,

442
00:28:07,466 --> 00:28:11,388
and you guys could have mentioned this
before and I'm sorry if I've I've blanked

443
00:28:11,388 --> 00:28:15,166
because we've been talking about this for
a very long time, not just tonight,

444
00:28:15,166 --> 00:28:16,377
but another meetings but.

445
00:28:18,057 --> 00:28:21,303
Um,
relative to the 80% that I hear this

446
00:28:21,303 --> 00:28:21,937
trigger?

447
00:28:23,417 --> 00:28:24,577
Where are we right now?

448
00:28:24,577 --> 00:28:26,217
Close to that.

449
00:28:27,897 --> 00:28:30,857
I don't have the exact number,
OK in my head.

450
00:28:30,857 --> 00:28:34,015
I can tell you that that we're we're just
under 80%,

451
00:28:34,015 --> 00:28:36,817
but I don't have that exact statistic for
you.

452
00:28:36,817 --> 00:28:37,297
I can.

453
00:28:37,497 --> 00:28:42,065
I can certainly provide it to you, OK.
And then also just one more kind of

454
00:28:42,065 --> 00:28:44,137
piggybacks on that one, not yours.

455
00:28:45,857 --> 00:28:47,057
In the last five years.

456
00:28:48,047 --> 00:28:52,687
How close have we gotten to that 80% that
I I can't.

457
00:28:52,887 --> 00:28:54,567
I do not have the answer to that.

458
00:28:54,647 --> 00:28:56,527
That was on how to investigate that.

459
00:28:58,057 --> 00:29:04,467
You know that that 80% of what I can tell
you is that that 80% CAP is really there

460
00:29:04,467 --> 00:29:08,097
to you know, we still have another 20%,
right.

461
00:29:08,297 --> 00:29:14,444
But we also have spikes during the summer
periods and so that that's is to allow

462
00:29:14,444 --> 00:29:17,177
for a sufficient room extra reserve.

463
00:29:17,447 --> 00:29:24,066
If you will so that we don't go over our
our state permit requirement which is 1.

464
00:29:24,066 --> 00:29:26,327
234 million gallons per day.

465
00:29:27,817 --> 00:29:33,295
It's but every but that getting closer
and closer to 80% just reduces that that

466
00:29:33,295 --> 00:29:36,377
potential of us going over our state
permit.

467
00:29:36,497 --> 00:29:38,377
Because what?

468
00:29:38,377 --> 00:29:44,482
I know Councilman Gutenberg is about to
also talk about is that 10% for a large

469
00:29:44,482 --> 00:29:45,017
volume?

470
00:29:46,617 --> 00:29:46,817
Commercial.

471
00:29:47,447 --> 00:29:50,964
Facilities.
And so I know he's about to talk about

472
00:29:50,964 --> 00:29:55,447
about kind of segue just a little bit
when your usage increases.

473
00:29:56,857 --> 00:29:59,977
Is that percentage for them also going to
go down?

474
00:30:01,697 --> 00:30:07,497
So will they stay at 10% even though the
80% has gotten higher?

475
00:30:07,497 --> 00:30:08,657
Because I guess that's what I think.

476
00:30:11,657 --> 00:30:16,393
So as the 80% goes up, will there?
Will they remain at the 10% or will their

477
00:30:16,393 --> 00:30:17,377
percentage drop?

478
00:30:17,687 --> 00:30:19,647
To try to, you know, level.

479
00:30:22,097 --> 00:30:23,977
They're they're still gonna have.

480
00:30:24,047 --> 00:30:24,487
Now I'm going.

481
00:30:24,487 --> 00:30:28,094
Ultimately,
they would be for large volume user.

482
00:30:28,094 --> 00:30:32,807
We're still it would be 10% below
whatever it was that they're.

483
00:30:34,257 --> 00:30:38,885
They're level.
They suspected that 10% would be below

484
00:30:38,885 --> 00:30:43,257
what that level was and in the in the
prior years.

485
00:30:43,257 --> 00:30:49,257
At the same time period that the water is
being consumed now. OK, OK.

486
00:30:49,577 --> 00:30:51,137
Those are the only questions I had.

487
00:30:52,397 --> 00:30:56,317
I I if I I'll, I'll, I'll,
I'll take a stab at that.

488
00:30:56,317 --> 00:30:59,173
Yeah,
I think the distinction you're making is

489
00:30:59,173 --> 00:30:59,477
that.

490
00:31:00,977 --> 00:31:05,191
In a water conservation plan by a large
volume user,

491
00:31:05,191 --> 00:31:11,790
the goal is to have them have a plan that
reduces their typical bill over a period

492
00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:13,937
of time or or meter by 10%.

493
00:31:15,697 --> 00:31:18,177
But there's also a portion,
I think that says.

494
00:31:19,817 --> 00:31:22,297
The town's goal is to reduce overall by
10%.

495
00:31:22,647 --> 00:31:26,042
Percent,
which is of that permit number and that's.

496
00:31:26,042 --> 00:31:29,111
Yeah.
I think there's two places where it kind

497
00:31:29,111 --> 00:31:30,287
of addresses that.

498
00:31:30,287 --> 00:31:33,865
Yeah, yeah,
I was speaking to the to what you,

499
00:31:33,865 --> 00:31:35,007
the the former.

500
00:31:35,007 --> 00:31:37,567
Yeah. In terms of the the business use,
yeah.

501
00:31:39,017 --> 00:31:40,537
Good, good point. Yeah.

502
00:31:42,817 --> 00:31:43,577
All right.

503
00:31:43,897 --> 00:31:46,977
Yeah. So I what I'd like to do is.

504
00:31:49,097 --> 00:31:52,137
Boy, I've spent a lot of hours with this,
so I'd let I'd let I'm.

505
00:31:52,407 --> 00:31:54,807
I've been itching to get all this off my
chest so.

506
00:31:56,337 --> 00:32:00,658
What I'd like to do is so first I'll say
you know that I do appreciate the work

507
00:32:00,658 --> 00:32:04,115
that was done on this.
The amount of work that was done between

508
00:32:04,115 --> 00:32:07,356
the the couple of versions.
I think it was really worth it.

509
00:32:07,356 --> 00:32:08,977
And and there's a lot of good.

510
00:32:08,977 --> 00:32:09,697
Features in here.

511
00:32:11,617 --> 00:32:14,634
But but there there's one thing in here
that really concerns me.

512
00:32:14,634 --> 00:32:18,487
And then there's some other things that I
just think we just would be benefited by

513
00:32:18,487 --> 00:32:19,137
talking about.

514
00:32:19,137 --> 00:32:21,617
So let me hit the one that.

515
00:32:22,247 --> 00:32:24,127
Really concerns me first.

516
00:32:25,617 --> 00:32:28,577
And this is the addition of.

517
00:32:30,817 --> 00:32:35,577
Terms and specifically the term data
centers, drew my eye for what?

518
00:32:35,577 --> 00:32:39,537
For many people I'm sure will be obvious
reasons and I think we need to.

519
00:32:39,537 --> 00:32:42,137
We need to kind of have a conversation
real quick about.

520
00:32:44,537 --> 00:32:51,457
How laplata's land use ordinance works
and its relation to state code?

521
00:32:51,767 --> 00:32:58,087
So in in in section A3 of this draft.

522
00:32:59,617 --> 00:33:04,709
It lists, among other things,
it has a bullet size list that includes

523
00:33:04,709 --> 00:33:08,347
descriptions of what could be large
volume users,

524
00:33:08,347 --> 00:33:11,257
and one of them is data centers and and.

525
00:33:13,047 --> 00:33:13,647
However.

526
00:33:15,137 --> 00:33:19,408
In Maryland,
land use Article Division One, Title 4,

527
00:33:19,408 --> 00:33:25,935
which is that is the Maryland State law
that gives laplata as a municipality its

528
00:33:25,935 --> 00:33:31,657
authority to govern zoning within the
incorporated limits of the town.

529
00:33:33,377 --> 00:33:41,774
What is permitted in an industrial light
or heavy zone is specifically governed by

530
00:33:41,774 --> 00:33:41,977
a.

531
00:33:42,767 --> 00:33:46,087
Table it's the permissive zoning table.

532
00:33:46,087 --> 00:33:50,327
It's 191-8,
and if you're worried about data centers

533
00:33:50,327 --> 00:33:54,487
in La Plata,
that's the table to look at because it

534
00:33:54,487 --> 00:33:56,887
does not in any shape or form.

535
00:33:58,337 --> 00:33:58,497
List.

536
00:34:00,137 --> 00:34:05,817
Either permitted conditional or as a
special exception anywhere in that table.

537
00:34:05,857 --> 00:34:08,377
Does it say that you could do that
anywhere in the town?

538
00:34:08,977 --> 00:34:12,217
So my concern is,
is that including a reference.

539
00:34:12,367 --> 00:34:18,705
That identifies data centers as a type of
large volume user in laplata or anything

540
00:34:18,705 --> 00:34:20,767
else in that list, frankly.

541
00:34:20,767 --> 00:34:21,967
And I didn't. Yeah.

542
00:34:23,577 --> 00:34:29,255
That that it risks creating an implied
land use and that and also it it could be

543
00:34:29,255 --> 00:34:34,863
used by an applicant that comes in here
and says well this table over here says

544
00:34:34,863 --> 00:34:37,177
this. But over here it says this.

545
00:34:37,177 --> 00:34:39,377
So you know,
where can we meet in the middle?

546
00:34:39,377 --> 00:34:40,737
Can I do a small data center?

547
00:34:40,737 --> 00:34:41,417
Right, this is.

548
00:34:42,047 --> 00:34:47,226
Not the way this works at all,
and I think that that we we introduce

549
00:34:47,226 --> 00:34:50,904
problems by flirting with that kind of
language,

550
00:34:50,904 --> 00:34:54,807
that that gets outside of that very
specific 191-8.

551
00:34:55,247 --> 00:34:56,847
So what?

552
00:34:56,917 --> 00:35:00,647
What I'm gonna say is like,
as soon as you get to the end of that

553
00:35:00,647 --> 00:35:04,377
that section, Section 3,
I think it just ends and you just delete

554
00:35:04,377 --> 00:35:07,825
that entire list because any large volume
user first of all,

555
00:35:07,825 --> 00:35:10,877
the town already knows who they are
because the town.

556
00:35:10,877 --> 00:35:14,597
Sees them,
the metered all of the meter values.

557
00:35:14,797 --> 00:35:18,017
The town manager has, I think,
at Council sessions has talked to us

558
00:35:18,017 --> 00:35:18,917
about some of them.

559
00:35:18,917 --> 00:35:21,998
I mean,
he he has the list of them so and the

560
00:35:21,998 --> 00:35:24,677
permitted uses are identified elsewhere.

561
00:35:25,407 --> 00:35:26,047
So we don't have to.

562
00:35:26,517 --> 00:35:28,317
You know, cross that up.

563
00:35:29,847 --> 00:35:32,287
So you know that that's my recommendation
there.

564
00:35:32,367 --> 00:35:33,927
My strong recommendation, I think.

565
00:35:36,607 --> 00:35:40,456
For and and Councilman Goodenberg the the
the intent was was really just to

566
00:35:40,456 --> 00:35:42,887
completely understand where you're coming
from.

567
00:35:42,887 --> 00:35:47,064
That makes complete sense, I think,
when when the subcommittee met, we were,

568
00:35:47,064 --> 00:35:50,807
we were trying to create an image so that
somebody would understand.

569
00:35:50,807 --> 00:35:55,647
You know what our typical large volume
users and.

570
00:35:56,117 --> 00:36:00,040
I don't think we we considered the fact
that. And you're right, we should.

571
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,597
We should really align it to those those
uses that are in our code.

572
00:36:03,597 --> 00:36:04,917
And it was unintentional.

573
00:36:04,917 --> 00:36:06,157
But yes, we don't.

574
00:36:06,197 --> 00:36:10,043
We staff certainly doesn't win.
I don't think that the subcommittee is

575
00:36:10,043 --> 00:36:13,997
ever wants to suggest that data centers
are permitted to use the talent.

576
00:36:13,997 --> 00:36:15,157
Yeah. So I I agree.

577
00:36:15,757 --> 00:36:17,597
I I absolutely agree with what you're
saying.

578
00:36:17,597 --> 00:36:20,397
What you're saying it's a really good
idea, but also one thing.

579
00:36:20,397 --> 00:36:25,029
What if you wanted to just go one step
further and just put the amount of water

580
00:36:25,029 --> 00:36:29,662
used by large volume user and say for
instance if you know if you're using this

581
00:36:29,662 --> 00:36:33,832
much water blah blah blah blah,
this is what you would be identified As

582
00:36:33,832 --> 00:36:34,527
for a large.

583
00:36:34,527 --> 00:36:35,277
Volume user.

584
00:36:35,757 --> 00:36:39,997
I think that that is a yeah,
that is a good question. I I.

585
00:36:41,567 --> 00:36:46,207
Considered a large volume.

586
00:36:47,807 --> 00:36:52,209
From memory I believe,
and this might be putting you on the spot

587
00:36:52,209 --> 00:36:55,393
down,
but I believe from the water report days

588
00:36:55,393 --> 00:36:57,967
right back many, many months ago when.

589
00:36:59,527 --> 00:37:02,617
Mr.
Stevens had these discussions with us on

590
00:37:02,617 --> 00:37:03,167
water I.

591
00:37:03,167 --> 00:37:03,207
I.

592
00:37:03,247 --> 00:37:05,207
I believe he has a number that.

593
00:37:05,597 --> 00:37:06,917
Defines that already.

594
00:37:06,917 --> 00:37:10,560
I don't know if it's in code or if it's
in policy,

595
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,917
but there was a number I haven't.

596
00:37:12,917 --> 00:37:15,857
I can't remember the number off the top
of my head,

597
00:37:15,857 --> 00:37:18,459
but I remember there was a threshold
discuss.

598
00:37:18,459 --> 00:37:22,191
That's like your large volume user and
it's not a number that it,

599
00:37:22,191 --> 00:37:24,397
I mean it sticks out like a sore thumb.

600
00:37:24,397 --> 00:37:26,917
It it's not a grey zone kind of thing.

601
00:37:26,917 --> 00:37:28,077
It's really clear.

602
00:37:28,117 --> 00:37:30,717
Yeah,
I think that'd be best if you took out

603
00:37:30,717 --> 00:37:32,277
the list and just put that.

604
00:37:33,047 --> 00:37:35,703
Clear identifier there.
Then any business would know or person

605
00:37:35,703 --> 00:37:36,167
would know.

606
00:37:36,167 --> 00:37:37,167
Hey, if I'm hitting this market.

607
00:37:37,517 --> 00:37:39,677
Mark, I'm a professional user.

608
00:37:39,757 --> 00:37:40,397
It might.

609
00:37:40,397 --> 00:37:44,933
It might have been that it was a number,
like if you're in the top 1% or top,

610
00:37:44,933 --> 00:37:49,237
what there was some percentage of I I
feel like to whatever it was, yeah.

611
00:37:50,727 --> 00:37:51,047
And to.

612
00:37:53,637 --> 00:37:57,922
To respond to that,
what we might do is just is just

613
00:37:57,922 --> 00:38:01,157
completely delete triple I out of there.

614
00:38:01,197 --> 00:38:03,614
Yeah,
because we've identified in the

615
00:38:03,614 --> 00:38:08,829
definitions a large volume user means any
nonresidential or mixed-use development

616
00:38:08,829 --> 00:38:14,172
that either one consumes an average of 10,
000 gallons per day or more based on the

617
00:38:14,172 --> 00:38:19,197
most recent three consecutive building
cycles or uses 300,000 gallons or more.

618
00:38:20,047 --> 00:38:22,767
In a single building cycle,
and I think that defines it.

619
00:38:23,117 --> 00:38:26,307
And then we eliminate all the uses on
there,

620
00:38:26,307 --> 00:38:30,277
and we think that gets us to a happy
place. Great. Yep.

621
00:38:32,197 --> 00:38:34,197
Yeah, I agree.

622
00:38:34,197 --> 00:38:35,597
Yeah, that takes care of it then.

623
00:38:41,207 --> 00:38:44,007
All right, you know,
so I'll keep walking through these.

624
00:38:44,007 --> 00:38:48,047
But you know at the end, maybe, Mr.
Dooley. You know, I don't know.

625
00:38:49,727 --> 00:38:53,956
I don't want to kind of like stop and
kind of take a vote on every single one

626
00:38:53,956 --> 00:38:56,613
of these,
because there's about 10 of them to go

627
00:38:56,613 --> 00:38:57,047
through.

628
00:38:57,087 --> 00:38:59,487
Not not that I think many were going to
take that long.

629
00:39:01,847 --> 00:39:03,407
Did did you have a suggestion or?

630
00:39:05,167 --> 00:39:09,835
Here's what I can tell the Commission as
a whole is staff has reviewed these the

631
00:39:09,835 --> 00:39:10,527
suggestions.

632
00:39:10,997 --> 00:39:15,317
I think they align well with the intent
of the ordinance.

633
00:39:15,877 --> 00:39:19,997
I think they're they're very well thought
out and I think they can be easily.

634
00:39:21,407 --> 00:39:26,771
Incorporated or modified ordinance
incorporated and staff has no objections

635
00:39:26,771 --> 00:39:28,607
to any of the suggestions.

636
00:39:30,787 --> 00:39:33,747
And I'm happy to kind of just overview
him.

637
00:39:33,907 --> 00:39:34,107
I can.

638
00:39:34,107 --> 00:39:37,653
Kind of go through them quick and and
maybe if we need to talk about any of

639
00:39:37,653 --> 00:39:40,453
them, I'm happy to do that.
If if if there needs to be more

640
00:39:40,453 --> 00:39:40,967
discussion.

641
00:39:42,487 --> 00:39:46,441
That's what staff sent those out earlier
today to to infants, to you,

642
00:39:46,441 --> 00:39:47,967
and provided the hard copy.

643
00:39:47,967 --> 00:39:50,167
So we could talk about it effectively.

644
00:39:51,647 --> 00:39:55,014
So before you before you do that,
Councilman Gutenberg,

645
00:39:55,014 --> 00:39:58,201
let me let me turn to the Commissioners
and 1st ask,

646
00:39:58,201 --> 00:40:00,847
did everyone have an opportunity to
review.

647
00:40:03,607 --> 00:40:07,447
Councilman guttenberg's. Yes, yes.

648
00:40:08,237 --> 00:40:11,637
Are there any specific questions or
concerns?

649
00:40:13,167 --> 00:40:16,527
With Councilman Gutenberg's suggestions.

650
00:40:18,557 --> 00:40:21,301
Commissioner Miller,
just out of curiosity,

651
00:40:21,301 --> 00:40:26,227
where did the three days comes from for
the three six consecutive days for the

652
00:40:26,227 --> 00:40:26,477
90%?

653
00:40:27,697 --> 00:40:31,228
Yeah. So actually,
so there's there's probably two or three

654
00:40:31,228 --> 00:40:35,700
of them anyway that I'd like to talk
about probably with with staff because

655
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:38,937
you know that they are my view of a way
of a solution.

656
00:40:38,937 --> 00:40:40,697
But you know I'm not.

657
00:40:40,737 --> 00:40:44,057
I'm not opposed to other solutions.

658
00:40:44,057 --> 00:40:45,577
You know those kinds of things so.

659
00:40:46,997 --> 00:40:50,437
That one is if we want to just go right
to that one, that was the.

660
00:40:52,227 --> 00:40:52,947
Which one was that?

661
00:40:54,437 --> 00:40:55,077
Commissioner Miller.

662
00:40:56,797 --> 00:40:59,317
Four. Yeah, so OK.

663
00:40:59,317 --> 00:41:01,357
So yeah, and this actually really.

664
00:41:03,277 --> 00:41:06,637
Commissioner Hudnell as well was was
talking about this in her question.

665
00:41:06,757 --> 00:41:12,242
So the the thing that that I was
concerned about is exactly what

666
00:41:12,242 --> 00:41:18,065
Commissioner Hudnell said,
which is how close are we and the way the

667
00:41:18,065 --> 00:41:19,837
wording in the draft.

668
00:41:22,357 --> 00:41:22,837
Zoning.

669
00:41:23,147 --> 00:41:24,387
Text is that.

670
00:41:27,077 --> 00:41:30,117
The the concern is,
is that we would be potentially.

671
00:41:31,797 --> 00:41:34,917
Close to being in a perpetual state of
this.

672
00:41:36,717 --> 00:41:41,983
Because of a lack of a water agreement
and the amount of development that we've

673
00:41:41,983 --> 00:41:43,037
had in the town.

674
00:41:44,837 --> 00:41:48,157
And and we're going to have to reconcile
that and so.

675
00:41:50,077 --> 00:41:52,957
I don't know what staff's view of that is.

676
00:41:53,227 --> 00:41:58,585
But it really goes to the question of,
you know, in forecasting by by staff,

677
00:41:58,585 --> 00:42:02,481
you know, are we,
do we need to accommodate the reality

678
00:42:02,481 --> 00:42:06,587
that we're going to be in for some
unknown period of time?

679
00:42:09,317 --> 00:42:12,955
You know, I I guess that's yeah,
that's that's the totality of that

680
00:42:12,955 --> 00:42:13,437
question.

681
00:42:15,117 --> 00:42:19,606
And as part of our our regular,
if you'll recall from the Apfo for water

682
00:42:19,606 --> 00:42:23,357
that we did in sewer,
we have that we we do a a a BI yearly.

683
00:42:24,027 --> 00:42:28,245
Update on our water and on our water and
sewer capacity.

684
00:42:28,245 --> 00:42:32,907
And I think that we just have to we have
to use those numbers.

685
00:42:34,277 --> 00:42:38,448
And I think that it's hard to say at this
point, but because we don't have water,

686
00:42:38,448 --> 00:42:41,449
we don't have a water agreement.
We don't have much water.

687
00:42:41,449 --> 00:42:42,517
Ultimately we'll get.

688
00:42:44,077 --> 00:42:48,197
And I think Councilman Guttenberg's
points well taken is that it's hard to.

689
00:42:48,237 --> 00:42:50,757
It's hard to know how long this will be.

690
00:42:50,757 --> 00:42:54,237
I think that well, I think you know,
sitting here a year from now, I think.

691
00:42:54,667 --> 00:42:57,852
Maybe have a better idea because we
should have a,

692
00:42:57,852 --> 00:43:02,848
hopefully a water agreement in place,
but we we we should assume the worst case

693
00:43:02,848 --> 00:43:07,657
scenario because that's the the most
sound because we don't have anything in

694
00:43:07,657 --> 00:43:11,467
place that tells us that we're going to
have adequate water.

695
00:43:12,957 --> 00:43:13,517
Anytime soon.

696
00:43:15,237 --> 00:43:18,302
So yes,
I think we are going to make that basic

697
00:43:18,302 --> 00:43:22,197
assumption that we're this is going to be
a perpetual state.

698
00:43:23,837 --> 00:43:24,237
And the.

699
00:43:25,627 --> 00:43:27,197
We're trying to dig ourselves out of it.

700
00:43:28,647 --> 00:43:35,076
So so maybe with this one it is the the
the question is really you know this is

701
00:43:35,076 --> 00:43:37,567
the suggested language however.

702
00:43:38,957 --> 00:43:43,997
Staff should look at the 90% that's there
and and the number of consecutive days.

703
00:43:45,677 --> 00:43:50,613
And give us that back when we come back
next month as like a formal

704
00:43:50,613 --> 00:43:55,767
recommendation based on some assessment
of of where we are, what what,

705
00:43:55,767 --> 00:43:57,437
what makes sense there.

706
00:43:57,947 --> 00:44:03,478
Leave it at 80% consecutive days is
different or you know because I know

707
00:44:03,478 --> 00:44:08,781
there's there's complexity in the
interplay with the with the permit,

708
00:44:08,781 --> 00:44:13,100
because there's there's a overall limit
in monthly draw,

709
00:44:13,100 --> 00:44:18,707
but there's also peak day limits, I think.
And I think that is a complex.

710
00:44:18,907 --> 00:44:23,669
That is hard for us to appreciate and
figure out how to probably get in into

711
00:44:23,669 --> 00:44:25,587
code in a way that makes sense.

712
00:44:26,757 --> 00:44:27,837
Without staff input.

713
00:44:28,667 --> 00:44:30,147
Yeah, that that's something we can.

714
00:44:30,187 --> 00:44:34,457
We can talk to public works about and see
what they would recommend. Yeah,

715
00:44:34,457 --> 00:44:35,027
thank you.

716
00:44:35,027 --> 00:44:35,867
Yeah. OK.

717
00:44:38,467 --> 00:44:38,587
Umm.

718
00:44:40,247 --> 00:44:46,687
Another one that I thought would be good
to to have a conversation about is.

719
00:44:51,807 --> 00:44:53,687
#10 actually.

720
00:44:55,997 --> 00:45:01,557
So with standards for commercial car
washes with high efficiency recycling

721
00:45:01,557 --> 00:45:04,596
systems,
so we have we have at least one

722
00:45:04,596 --> 00:45:10,379
potentially more but but the the one
that's easy to think about it is the the

723
00:45:10,379 --> 00:45:12,677
newest one that that was built.

724
00:45:14,477 --> 00:45:17,717
Right, right on 301. The Eco wash, right.

725
00:45:17,797 --> 00:45:18,997
I think is what it's called.

726
00:45:19,477 --> 00:45:20,677
Or splash. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

727
00:45:21,147 --> 00:45:21,267
Umm.

728
00:45:23,107 --> 00:45:26,859
That that is and you can look stuff up
online about that that is using all of

729
00:45:26,859 --> 00:45:30,467
the you know the the most high efficiency
kind of systems they have today.

730
00:45:30,467 --> 00:45:33,205
They're available and things like that,
and,

731
00:45:33,205 --> 00:45:38,255
but in in a water emergency where we have
eliminated vehicle washing at residences

732
00:45:38,255 --> 00:45:40,507
in in driveways and things like that.

733
00:45:42,157 --> 00:45:47,128
The high efficiency car wash having to do
a 10% reduction plan when we are there

734
00:45:47,128 --> 00:45:51,609
actually it in my view part of the
solution because you're you're having

735
00:45:51,609 --> 00:45:52,837
people go away from.

736
00:45:54,377 --> 00:45:59,581
Home washing and now they're doing it in
a way that consumes, you know,

737
00:45:59,581 --> 00:46:04,424
7080% less water potentially,
but we need them to limit themselves

738
00:46:04,424 --> 00:46:08,617
again as a high volume user with a plan
to reduce by 10%.

739
00:46:09,417 --> 00:46:13,284
And I wonder if we what I really believe
is that, that,

740
00:46:13,284 --> 00:46:18,395
that technology and that service is
really offsetting more water than the

741
00:46:18,395 --> 00:46:23,437
individual reduction plan would indicate
and very likely they could see.

742
00:46:23,627 --> 00:46:28,627
A surge in water consumption as an
individual entity.

743
00:46:30,117 --> 00:46:35,150
But that but that shouldn't be likely
viewed as a bad thing because of what its

744
00:46:35,150 --> 00:46:36,597
offsetting potentially.

745
00:46:39,637 --> 00:46:44,820
And so that that's that's what my intent
there is is to recommend language that

746
00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:48,966
would allow for that.
And so so this would be an area where you

747
00:46:48,966 --> 00:46:53,437
know it may be a thing you know if you
look at it from that context.

748
00:46:54,837 --> 00:46:57,757
And and the draft language if it needed
to be modified further,

749
00:46:57,757 --> 00:47:00,997
even based on that I'm I'm definitely
open to it based on staff input.

750
00:47:01,517 --> 00:47:07,431
Yeah, that that makes great sense to me.
I think making a recognition in a high

751
00:47:07,431 --> 00:47:09,797
efficiencies car wash is not is.

752
00:47:10,467 --> 00:47:17,789
Is to make it clear that it doesn't
require the 10% or doesn't require a plan.

753
00:47:17,789 --> 00:47:21,867
Fundamentally that we can work that we
can.

754
00:47:23,917 --> 00:47:26,077
We can massage it accordingly to reflect
that.

755
00:47:26,157 --> 00:47:27,597
Great. Thank you.

756
00:47:27,837 --> 00:47:34,137
And then another area that I thought
would be really good to talk about with

757
00:47:34,137 --> 00:47:35,037
you is the.

758
00:47:36,517 --> 00:47:38,957
The Zoning Board of Appeals and.

759
00:47:40,897 --> 00:47:48,325
How that interplay is with what they do.
Their charter essentially based in code,

760
00:47:48,325 --> 00:47:50,137
is to handle zoning.

761
00:47:53,427 --> 00:47:56,587
Arbitration isn't the right word,
but but to consider zoning.

762
00:47:58,477 --> 00:48:00,917
Rule approvals and so this is.

763
00:48:00,917 --> 00:48:06,530
This is different in that we're not
asking them to review the zoning code in

764
00:48:06,530 --> 00:48:10,539
context of what's happening with a a
hardship request.

765
00:48:10,539 --> 00:48:15,861
We're asking them to look at the
administrative procedures that the town

766
00:48:15,861 --> 00:48:21,037
manager used in his determination that
they're asking for relief from.

767
00:48:22,037 --> 00:48:27,775
And is this written in a way,
or is their companions documentation that

768
00:48:27,775 --> 00:48:32,797
might be needed in order for them to
perform in that function?

769
00:48:35,137 --> 00:48:39,394
What Staffs and what staff's intent was
was that they would look at?

770
00:48:39,394 --> 00:48:43,713
They would look at the entire
administrative record based on what the

771
00:48:43,713 --> 00:48:48,217
the town manager's decision was,
but they're fundamentally going bad to.

772
00:48:49,677 --> 00:48:53,560
The standards that the town manager is is
looking at,

773
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,077
so those are identified in section.

774
00:48:57,957 --> 00:49:01,837
M2B I, I-12 and three.

775
00:49:02,437 --> 00:49:04,917
Those are fundamentally the findings that
are being made.

776
00:49:05,587 --> 00:49:08,093
OK,
that was for the the board to just look

777
00:49:08,093 --> 00:49:11,283
at that there,
they shouldn't be looking at other stuff

778
00:49:11,283 --> 00:49:12,707
for a variance, it's not.

779
00:49:12,707 --> 00:49:13,427
I agree with it.

780
00:49:13,427 --> 00:49:14,507
Not applicable.

781
00:49:14,547 --> 00:49:19,107
And that was really the intent, OK,
of of what we wrote or we I wrote.

782
00:49:19,267 --> 00:49:23,227
I will tell you that I I remembered and I
have section L2.

783
00:49:23,227 --> 00:49:28,798
It should be M2, right? OK, that one. OK.
And then and then the the other thing

784
00:49:28,798 --> 00:49:33,951
related to that is you provided that
companion document about state water

785
00:49:33,951 --> 00:49:34,787
emergencies.

786
00:49:34,907 --> 00:49:36,947
And that that made me go, OK, so.

787
00:49:38,757 --> 00:49:44,856
The the our Zoning Board of Appeals and
and a water hardship is only an exception

788
00:49:44,856 --> 00:49:49,691
if it was granted to the town's ordinance
on water restrictions.

789
00:49:49,691 --> 00:49:55,270
It and it would have no ability to
supersede what what state mandates were

790
00:49:55,270 --> 00:49:56,237
put in place.

791
00:49:56,237 --> 00:49:57,837
And we should be really clear about that.

792
00:49:57,947 --> 00:49:59,547
That's correct. Yes. OK.

793
00:49:59,827 --> 00:50:00,827
Yes, that's correct.

794
00:50:01,747 --> 00:50:02,347
All right.

795
00:50:04,877 --> 00:50:09,674
The the other one that probably you know,
again I don't go through every single one

796
00:50:09,674 --> 00:50:12,586
of them,
but the other one I thought would be good

797
00:50:12,586 --> 00:50:13,957
to talk about though is.

798
00:50:15,757 --> 00:50:17,517
The term common sense.

799
00:50:17,557 --> 00:50:19,531
And so when I looked at that and and I
read it,

800
00:50:19,531 --> 00:50:21,917
I kept reading it over and over again,
and I'm going, OK.

801
00:50:21,917 --> 00:50:25,924
Where's the common sense part of this?
If thinking like I'm an applicant or

802
00:50:25,924 --> 00:50:27,717
somebody wanting to navigate this?

803
00:50:28,667 --> 00:50:33,498
And I like the wording and I,
and I think I understand the intent,

804
00:50:33,498 --> 00:50:39,267
but it it went from it's a common sense
approach right into here's the the fees

805
00:50:39,267 --> 00:50:44,747
and things that are happening that if you
don't comply, this is what it is.

806
00:50:44,857 --> 00:50:46,977
And so I think we.

807
00:50:47,657 --> 00:50:53,258
I believe the intent of the term common
sense I I I often use the term like like

808
00:50:53,258 --> 00:50:56,785
I I don't.
My personal view is I would like to not

809
00:50:56,785 --> 00:50:59,897
see the town be heavy-handed in in
anything.

810
00:50:59,897 --> 00:51:03,657
It's enforcing right where it's just my
way or the highway, right?

811
00:51:04,217 --> 00:51:06,337
Or I shouldn't say it that way it it?

812
00:51:06,737 --> 00:51:07,497
It shouldn't be.

813
00:51:07,497 --> 00:51:09,057
It shouldn't be like really.

814
00:51:09,867 --> 00:51:11,267
Yeah, it should. Yeah, it shouldn't.

815
00:51:11,267 --> 00:51:13,147
It shouldn't be like on first contact.

816
00:51:13,147 --> 00:51:14,267
It's like, wow.

817
00:51:14,697 --> 00:51:18,677
I got the you know,
the full force of this ordinance.

818
00:51:18,677 --> 00:51:19,857
So I think that.

819
00:51:21,707 --> 00:51:27,707
The language that I proposed in here
basically gives a a first notice.

820
00:51:29,107 --> 00:51:33,787
With 48 hours to resolve that notice with
no fine.

821
00:51:33,867 --> 00:51:36,566
And so to me,
that is the linkage to this is common

822
00:51:36,566 --> 00:51:38,227
sense or not being heavy-handed.

823
00:51:38,227 --> 00:51:41,842
This is this is, you know,
the town understanding that not every

824
00:51:41,842 --> 00:51:45,347
resident is gonna have having read every
new posted ordinance.

825
00:51:46,457 --> 00:51:51,402
You know that that comes out and and so
this is a way you know for, you know,

826
00:51:51,402 --> 00:51:56,283
attention to be brought to it and and
people can comply in a relatively easy

827
00:51:56,283 --> 00:51:56,537
way.

828
00:51:56,537 --> 00:51:59,817
But it's still timely,
so it accommodates the need.

829
00:52:00,017 --> 00:52:04,766
Just one quick suggestion where you have
suggested for the amendment I I would

830
00:52:04,766 --> 00:52:09,154
suggest taking out that first sentence
where it just says a common sense

831
00:52:09,154 --> 00:52:10,657
education first approach.

832
00:52:11,387 --> 00:52:13,067
Shall be taken to the enforcement of this
article.

833
00:52:13,067 --> 00:52:14,867
I would just take that out and just.

834
00:52:15,377 --> 00:52:20,390
Run into it and say for a first
observation, observe violation.

835
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:22,897
The town challenges run into it.

836
00:52:22,937 --> 00:52:27,137
Just take common sense straight out of it,
because somebody could say, well,

837
00:52:27,137 --> 00:52:29,537
this doesn't sound like common sense to
me.

838
00:52:29,857 --> 00:52:31,057
It could be somebody else.

839
00:52:31,057 --> 00:52:33,617
Your common sense could be different from
mine, yeah.

840
00:52:33,617 --> 00:52:38,712
So I think taking that whole sentence out
and just running into what the violation

841
00:52:38,712 --> 00:52:39,817
triggers would be.

842
00:52:40,547 --> 00:52:41,827
And their infractions what they involve.

843
00:52:43,207 --> 00:52:44,367
Yeah, I agree with that.

844
00:52:50,937 --> 00:52:54,337
Because that that still retains the
element of. It's not.

845
00:52:54,337 --> 00:52:56,057
It doesn't hit you right away.

846
00:52:56,057 --> 00:52:59,217
It it it, it kind of eases you into it?
Yeah.

847
00:53:00,977 --> 00:53:01,537
I should huddle.

848
00:53:01,537 --> 00:53:03,977
Can you repeat what you your suggestion?

849
00:53:04,097 --> 00:53:09,327
My suggestion for the ZTE amended
language would be to delete the first

850
00:53:09,327 --> 00:53:14,992
sentence where it says a common sense
education first approach shall be taken

851
00:53:14,992 --> 00:53:18,769
in the enforcement of this article.
To delete that,

852
00:53:18,769 --> 00:53:24,435
just start the overall amendment with
first or a first observed violation and

853
00:53:24,435 --> 00:53:25,307
then Contin.

854
00:53:32,767 --> 00:53:35,407
And and then the.
I'll let you finish writing.

855
00:53:35,407 --> 00:53:36,907
I'm sorry, Mr. Dooley.

856
00:53:38,447 --> 00:53:39,607
This last one, I promise.

857
00:53:39,607 --> 00:53:43,047
So the last one just to say it out loud,
right is the.

858
00:53:44,547 --> 00:53:47,027
The plan for.

859
00:53:50,237 --> 00:53:53,153
The timeline for commercial corrective
plans,

860
00:53:53,153 --> 00:53:56,196
so it wasn't clear in the draft the
commercial,

861
00:53:56,196 --> 00:53:59,557
the the corrective plans for the large
volume users.

862
00:53:59,557 --> 00:54:02,757
I'm sorry. Yeah. So it it talks about.

863
00:54:04,267 --> 00:54:08,365
The in the draft,
it talks about the amount of hang on.

864
00:54:08,365 --> 00:54:10,707
I'll go right to it and read it.

865
00:54:12,867 --> 00:54:17,427
It doesn't have a clear deadline for when
that that reduction plan submission.

866
00:54:18,947 --> 00:54:21,482
Flows.
I took this one right out of the out of

867
00:54:21,482 --> 00:54:22,507
the state language.

868
00:54:22,787 --> 00:54:26,267
Yeah, but yeah, I.
But it's certainly fine to to.

869
00:54:28,827 --> 00:54:32,307
Provide some boundaries around that, sure.

870
00:54:34,207 --> 00:54:36,807
That Commission's direction.

871
00:54:38,857 --> 00:54:43,148
Somebody wants to submit a except for
water conservation plan. You know,

872
00:54:43,148 --> 00:54:45,970
within within,
I think within 30 days it's very

873
00:54:45,970 --> 00:54:46,617
reasonable.

874
00:54:46,697 --> 00:54:48,017
Yeah. OK.

875
00:54:52,097 --> 00:54:57,297
One little suggestion to that amendment,
if you don't mind, is replacing it.

876
00:54:57,297 --> 00:54:59,937
Sounds trivial, but yeah,
I used to be a journalist.

877
00:55:01,297 --> 00:55:05,401
Sorry,
taking if and removing if and putting

878
00:55:05,401 --> 00:55:05,857
when.

879
00:55:07,267 --> 00:55:11,427
When a designated large volume user fails
to meet their required water.

880
00:55:19,317 --> 00:55:19,917
Journalism.

881
00:55:33,397 --> 00:55:34,837
So I think.

882
00:55:36,427 --> 00:55:41,820
You know my, my, my personal view is,
is that I'm satisfied, Mr. Dooley,

883
00:55:41,820 --> 00:55:45,810
that if if we want to say or if if you
need a motion,

884
00:55:45,810 --> 00:55:51,573
let us know that that we would use these
recommendations as provided with the

885
00:55:51,573 --> 00:55:54,307
notes that we know you took here and.

886
00:55:54,307 --> 00:55:59,192
You have this meeting to review and so
that to me I think would allow us to stay

887
00:55:59,192 --> 00:56:01,907
on track with the timeline that you gave
us.

888
00:56:02,097 --> 00:56:06,953
Which I think is great because if we if
we have a open, excuse me,

889
00:56:06,953 --> 00:56:12,318
if we have a public meeting on this
amendment in October that would still

890
00:56:12,318 --> 00:56:16,595
allow it to go to the Council.
I I assume the the idea is,

891
00:56:16,595 --> 00:56:18,987
is to probably get this in place.

892
00:56:18,987 --> 00:56:20,777
By the end of the year. Oh, absolutely.

893
00:56:22,387 --> 00:56:22,627
I would.

894
00:56:23,707 --> 00:56:26,172
I'd want to communicate with the town
manager.

895
00:56:26,172 --> 00:56:30,315
I think it would be his intent to bring
it to the Council as soon as possible.

896
00:56:30,315 --> 00:56:30,787
Possibly.

897
00:56:31,497 --> 00:56:34,497
Later on October. Great. OK.

898
00:56:36,107 --> 00:56:40,572
We we I think we we're on the same page.
We wanna bring this forward and yeah and

899
00:56:40,572 --> 00:56:44,547
really kind of finish finish this good
work that we've been doing great.

900
00:56:48,547 --> 00:56:50,147
Thank you, Councilman Bloomberg.

901
00:56:50,147 --> 00:56:53,707
Are there any additional thoughts,
comments, questions, Commissioner Miller?

902
00:56:55,747 --> 00:57:01,107
As yeah, well, first,
I'm not sure if it was mentioned.

903
00:57:01,467 --> 00:57:06,867
So we're very sort of specified on
prescription.

904
00:57:09,027 --> 00:57:11,835
Oh,
I'm trying to kind of reconcile the the

905
00:57:11,835 --> 00:57:16,176
common sense and the partnership.
I know we just removed that word,

906
00:57:16,176 --> 00:57:18,347
but what would an example of cure?

907
00:57:18,777 --> 00:57:23,497
Be for the 4048 hours for like an
individual or an entity.

908
00:57:25,307 --> 00:57:25,427
Umm.

909
00:57:26,537 --> 00:57:31,457
What might might occur or response,
or a sure mitigation?

910
00:57:31,457 --> 00:57:34,417
Yeah. So,
so the way I read it is if code

911
00:57:34,417 --> 00:57:39,633
enforcement was going through a
neighborhood that where an odd number was

912
00:57:39,633 --> 00:57:43,228
watering on an even number at a
residential house,

913
00:57:43,228 --> 00:57:47,457
the code enforcement officer could stop
and leave a notice.

914
00:57:47,457 --> 00:57:51,257
A first notice that they have 48 hours to.

915
00:57:52,027 --> 00:57:53,387
Reconcile setting up their sprinkler.

916
00:57:53,387 --> 00:57:56,747
So it's not going on the odd days or the
off days?

917
00:57:57,097 --> 00:58:02,238
From from where it's supposed to be that
then that notice would have been served

918
00:58:02,238 --> 00:58:06,935
if the if now three days later code
enforcement goes by the same house to

919
00:58:06,935 --> 00:58:12,139
check the sprinklers are going off on the
incorrect day, then there's your there.

920
00:58:12,139 --> 00:58:14,107
That that's where the the next.

921
00:58:14,107 --> 00:58:15,017
Notice starts the fines.

922
00:58:15,017 --> 00:58:19,617
That's the the cure period is fixing it
before you comes back.

923
00:58:19,777 --> 00:58:21,297
Yeah, that makes sense.

924
00:58:21,297 --> 00:58:22,937
I was trying to think like you're not
going to be.

925
00:58:24,907 --> 00:58:26,787
That you're going to stop washing your
car.

926
00:58:27,577 --> 00:58:29,257
And you won't be washing your car, but.

927
00:58:30,097 --> 00:58:33,218
You would cure by not washing the car,
but potentially three days a later.

928
00:58:33,218 --> 00:58:34,217
You're washing it again.

929
00:58:34,217 --> 00:58:36,257
But that first violation, you got things?

930
00:58:36,257 --> 00:58:39,356
So yeah,
I I think in that example the first time

931
00:58:39,356 --> 00:58:44,377
during a single event, water emergency,
whatever the duration of time is if that

932
00:58:44,377 --> 00:58:49,397
if that water alert is declared and and
you and at the beginning of it you get a

933
00:58:49,397 --> 00:58:52,187
notice because code enforcement went by
and.

934
00:58:52,187 --> 00:58:54,657
Saw you washing your car in your driveway.
You get the notice.

935
00:58:54,977 --> 00:58:58,464
If two months later,
we're still in that declared water

936
00:58:58,464 --> 00:59:02,824
emergency code enforcement goes by and
you're washing your car again,

937
00:59:02,824 --> 00:59:04,817
that's not another first notice.

938
00:59:04,977 --> 00:59:08,535
You're still in the same declared
emergency. I would assume that that would,

939
00:59:08,535 --> 00:59:09,737
that would incur the fine.

940
00:59:11,227 --> 00:59:14,423
Yeah.
How might the common sense partnership

941
00:59:14,423 --> 00:59:15,347
relationship?

942
00:59:17,017 --> 00:59:17,897
Come into factor.

943
00:59:17,897 --> 00:59:23,491
If that's the case, we're like, yeah,
I I interpret common sense to mean not be

944
00:59:23,491 --> 00:59:27,267
heavy-handed.
And I think with with what Commissioner

945
00:59:27,267 --> 00:59:32,022
Hudnall suggested is remove that,
but keep the feature of not being

946
00:59:32,022 --> 00:59:35,309
heavy-handed,
heavy hand heavy-handed in in my

947
00:59:35,309 --> 00:59:37,617
terminology means you're getting.

948
00:59:37,617 --> 00:59:38,417
Warnings, right?

949
00:59:38,417 --> 00:59:42,097
Like there's a lot of code that doesn't
do that in other places, so.

950
00:59:43,747 --> 00:59:47,162
That that is.
I assume what what I I took it to mean

951
00:59:47,162 --> 00:59:51,867
from from what the the subcommittee did
and I agree with it too frankly.

952
00:59:51,907 --> 00:59:56,027
Yeah, I think that that,
Commissioner Miller that.

953
00:59:57,547 --> 01:00:03,266
By removing that first line it it
provides more certainty and consistency

954
01:00:03,266 --> 01:00:07,827
in terms of what that intent was in terms
of common sense.

955
01:00:07,867 --> 01:00:10,907
So I think that sets us up for a much
more.

956
01:00:12,547 --> 01:00:12,787
Usable.

957
01:00:13,477 --> 01:00:18,138
Ordinance for this for this section,
because we have we we know what the

958
01:00:18,138 --> 01:00:23,056
standards are gonna be and what to expect
or what the an owner might expect.

959
01:00:23,056 --> 01:00:28,037
If there's a code enforcement violation,
OK, it's laid out very, very simply.

960
01:00:28,957 --> 01:00:32,535
Yeah,
I think the potential surge of the car

961
01:00:32,535 --> 01:00:35,477
wash, that was a point that I didn't.

962
01:00:37,467 --> 01:00:39,067
Think of and.
I think that's a a great point.

963
01:00:39,067 --> 01:00:42,467
Like they would have more customers and
what would they like?

964
01:00:42,467 --> 01:00:43,667
I'm trying to run through that scenario.

965
01:00:43,667 --> 01:00:46,387
Would they like if it's automated?

966
01:00:46,857 --> 01:00:49,257
Completely hands off. Are they stopping?

967
01:00:49,327 --> 01:00:52,654
And are they stopping cars from going
through and say we are cutting off?

968
01:00:52,654 --> 01:00:54,992
We're like, you know,
10 cars an hour or something.

969
01:00:54,992 --> 01:00:55,847
They would have to.

970
01:00:55,887 --> 01:00:56,927
It's on them to figure it out.

971
01:00:57,127 --> 01:00:58,327
That that's what I assumed.

972
01:00:58,327 --> 01:01:03,123
I assumed if if I have if I'm have have a
a a code that tells me I or you know a

973
01:01:03,123 --> 01:01:06,321
local ordinance that tells me I have to
lower by 10%.

974
01:01:06,321 --> 01:01:10,407
I'm I'm gonna have to have 10% fewer cars
go through than I did the.

975
01:01:10,407 --> 01:01:13,346
Last month,
with anything else that you need to be

976
01:01:13,346 --> 01:01:17,842
compliant with, yeah. Fundamentally,
it's fundamentally if if if I was trying

977
01:01:17,842 --> 01:01:20,897
to enforce this,
I would look to the to the owner to

978
01:01:20,897 --> 01:01:23,087
identify how they want to mitigate it.

979
01:01:23,167 --> 01:01:26,167
I don't think staff really cares as long
as we're getting the.

980
01:01:26,567 --> 01:01:28,127
10% reduction plan.

981
01:01:28,167 --> 01:01:31,143
Yeah,
and they can decide where how to run

982
01:01:31,143 --> 01:01:36,335
their business rather than trying to
dictate something that I have no idea

983
01:01:36,335 --> 01:01:37,927
what I'm talking about.

984
01:01:37,967 --> 01:01:39,727
And we've left the discretion out.

985
01:01:40,167 --> 01:01:43,287
I mean,
there's there's pathways to for that.

986
01:01:43,287 --> 01:01:44,287
Common sense, yeah.

987
01:01:44,287 --> 01:01:48,227
Well, yeah. So to me though,
if if they have right now if that

988
01:01:48,227 --> 01:01:51,167
business has 100 cars a day that come
through.

989
01:01:51,937 --> 01:01:54,406
When you tell a town with 11,
000 residents,

990
01:01:54,406 --> 01:01:56,657
you can't wash your car in your driveway.

991
01:01:57,707 --> 01:02:01,667
They could triple or quadruple their
business, right?

992
01:02:01,667 --> 01:02:06,547
And so there's no way they're going to
reduce by 10% the volume of use in the

993
01:02:06,547 --> 01:02:07,987
totality of their bill.

994
01:02:09,497 --> 01:02:14,672
So I I don't know how we but but the
offset in that number of people if they

995
01:02:14,672 --> 01:02:17,697
were gonna wash their car in their
driveway.

996
01:02:17,697 --> 01:02:20,857
But now they're gonna do it here with 80%
less water.

997
01:02:22,617 --> 01:02:28,297
The the overall offset benefit to the
town is achieved by way more than 10%.

998
01:02:29,687 --> 01:02:34,399
So it it that that's why I think we have
to accommodate that in this in this

999
01:02:34,399 --> 01:02:39,234
because all we're doing is basically
hurting a local business and telling them

1000
01:02:39,234 --> 01:02:41,927
to go wash their car just outside the
town.

1001
01:02:42,127 --> 01:02:43,567
And I don't think that's.

1002
01:02:43,567 --> 01:02:45,327
I mean, that's not what we want to do.

1003
01:02:45,327 --> 01:02:50,821
You know if if if it were I I think it's
just sort of the easiest thing to do

1004
01:02:50,821 --> 01:02:51,807
would just go.

1005
01:02:51,807 --> 01:02:53,167
They're part of the solution.

1006
01:02:53,857 --> 01:02:55,137
There that is not part of the problem.

1007
01:02:56,297 --> 01:02:59,615
And and we're actually making the problem
worse,

1008
01:02:59,615 --> 01:03:04,695
or other problems worse by by not
acknowledging that if we still wanted to

1009
01:03:04,695 --> 01:03:09,707
see a 10% reduction in water use,
maybe that's an example of a single use

1010
01:03:09,707 --> 01:03:12,890
case,
large volume user where you say your per

1011
01:03:12,890 --> 01:03:14,177
vehicle water plan.

1012
01:03:14,257 --> 01:03:16,497
Needs to lower by 10%.

1013
01:03:17,977 --> 01:03:22,137
I don't know the technology well enough
to know if they can tune it that way.

1014
01:03:22,577 --> 01:03:24,937
Maybe they can, but.

1015
01:03:25,717 --> 01:03:31,164
And that's why I think it's beneficial to
let down the in terms of how they want to

1016
01:03:31,164 --> 01:03:36,612
achieve that. But it's but but right now.
But but if you're going to do it at at at

1017
01:03:36,612 --> 01:03:40,957
10% of their total volume,
I say it's unachievable. We would have.

1018
01:03:40,957 --> 01:03:46,286
To we would have to say in code that
there's a special exception for that type

1019
01:03:46,286 --> 01:03:49,997
of business where it's per unit water
volume, not per.

1020
01:03:50,657 --> 01:03:51,297
Business entity.

1021
01:03:51,927 --> 01:03:52,887
You see what I'm saying?

1022
01:03:52,887 --> 01:03:54,007
Yeah, right. Right.

1023
01:03:55,687 --> 01:03:58,776
Yeah.
And I I don't know anything about car

1024
01:03:58,776 --> 01:04:04,464
wash to know what that what that volume
could be reduced to and still be able to

1025
01:04:04,464 --> 01:04:05,167
link cars.

1026
01:04:05,207 --> 01:04:07,286
Yeah.
So my my assumption is and I I did a

1027
01:04:07,286 --> 01:04:09,607
little a little bit of reading on the
Internet.

1028
01:04:09,887 --> 01:04:14,367
So you know I'm no,
I'm no car wash engineer, but the the.

1029
01:04:16,177 --> 01:04:17,057
Not since I was a teenager.

1030
01:04:17,057 --> 01:04:19,257
But the the what?

1031
01:04:19,257 --> 01:04:24,139
What I understand is like those things I
believe are optimized for the lowest

1032
01:04:24,139 --> 01:04:26,017
possible water usage they can.

1033
01:04:26,167 --> 01:04:30,464
Have and and achieve a result that that
that that cleans the vehicle that does

1034
01:04:30,464 --> 01:04:35,087
the things that they say they're gonna do
when you when you buy a car wash for them.

1035
01:04:35,087 --> 01:04:36,127
Yes, yes.

1036
01:04:36,127 --> 01:04:40,773
And so when in in that example,
I think probably the opportunities for

1037
01:04:40,773 --> 01:04:44,830
them to optimize further,
they're already doing that to to to

1038
01:04:44,830 --> 01:04:48,167
maximize their their their business
opportunities.

1039
01:04:48,167 --> 01:04:52,007
So because they're buying municipal water,
just like we are.

1040
01:04:52,697 --> 01:04:53,657
At our homes, right and so.

1041
01:04:55,537 --> 01:04:56,897
I'm of the mind that they.

1042
01:04:57,527 --> 01:05:03,154
There's probably just should just be an
exception for that business type in some

1043
01:05:03,154 --> 01:05:06,350
way,
and that's what I have on my notes is OK

1044
01:05:06,350 --> 01:05:06,767
is to.

1045
01:05:08,297 --> 01:05:09,537
That if it's if it's a.

1046
01:05:11,697 --> 01:05:15,097
If it's a high volume, excuse me.
It's a high efficiency.

1047
01:05:15,097 --> 01:05:16,617
High efficiency. Yeah. Thank you.

1048
01:05:17,537 --> 01:05:23,061
Car wash they can demonstrate document
that it is that they're exempt from from

1049
01:05:23,061 --> 01:05:24,097
that provision.

1050
01:05:24,137 --> 01:05:25,787
Yeah,
so that separates them out because I

1051
01:05:25,787 --> 01:05:27,937
agree that makes that makes all the sense
in the world.

1052
01:05:28,847 --> 01:05:33,775
And I agree that just from a purely from
a, from an economic standpoint,

1053
01:05:33,775 --> 01:05:39,447
they're probably not going to want to use
more water than they have to. Yeah, yeah.

1054
01:05:41,457 --> 01:05:43,537
So I have a couple of concerns.

1055
01:05:46,207 --> 01:05:48,927
Maybe not.
Maybe not so much concerns with thoughts.

1056
01:05:49,687 --> 01:05:53,487
The the first thought I have as with the
apfoi think.

1057
01:05:54,977 --> 01:05:58,243
This part,
and because it is a part of the APFO,

1058
01:05:58,243 --> 01:06:00,977
needs to be dynamic. We're we're kind of.

1059
01:06:04,287 --> 01:06:05,247
Doing this.

1060
01:06:07,217 --> 01:06:11,357
Blindly, I think we, you know,
there's a lot of effort and expertise

1061
01:06:11,357 --> 01:06:13,457
that's gone into this, but I think.

1062
01:06:15,027 --> 01:06:19,787
There's also a lot of ambiguity in some
of the language.

1063
01:06:20,267 --> 01:06:23,323
I'm concerned about the whole
self-compliance thing,

1064
01:06:23,323 --> 01:06:27,707
and maybe that's not what we're setting
up, but I think pretty much we are.

1065
01:06:28,147 --> 01:06:34,966
And I'm also concerned about potentially
creating a monopoly for the car wash we

1066
01:06:34,966 --> 01:06:35,387
have.

1067
01:06:36,937 --> 01:06:43,817
One new car wash in the town that could
that could probably take on this.

1068
01:06:44,887 --> 01:06:49,520
Recycling and all of that I'm concerned
about creating monopoly, or,

1069
01:06:49,520 --> 01:06:54,824
as Councilman Guttenberg alluded to,
we don't want people to go outside of the

1070
01:06:54,824 --> 01:06:58,047
town.
But certainly if the if the wait is long.

1071
01:06:59,247 --> 01:07:00,847
I'm not gonna sit in that line.

1072
01:07:00,847 --> 01:07:04,559
Gas prices are high,
so I'm gonna go somewhere else where

1073
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:05,647
there isn't this.

1074
01:07:05,647 --> 01:07:10,124
So I'm concerned there are several things
that I'm concerned about,

1075
01:07:10,124 --> 01:07:13,812
not to the degree where I say don't let's
move forward,

1076
01:07:13,812 --> 01:07:18,487
but I think there's still a lot of things
that need to be flushed out.

1077
01:07:18,487 --> 01:07:20,807
Can they be flushed out by October 6?

1078
01:07:21,287 --> 01:07:23,727
Maybe, maybe not. But I think also having.

1079
01:07:24,657 --> 01:07:25,657
A public hearing.

1080
01:07:27,377 --> 01:07:28,657
May help flush some of these things out.

1081
01:07:30,687 --> 01:07:34,327
So that's just my two cents and and I'll
pause right there.

1082
01:07:35,857 --> 01:07:37,737
And I ask about the self compliance.

1083
01:07:37,937 --> 01:07:40,617
What part is that?
I'd like to talk about that.

1084
01:07:40,657 --> 01:07:44,756
Well, even homeowners, if if residential,
residential or business,

1085
01:07:44,756 --> 01:07:47,937
I mean code enforcement can only be so
many places.

1086
01:07:49,697 --> 01:07:50,017
At a.

1087
01:07:50,017 --> 01:07:51,977
At a time and that will put a strain on
our resources.

1088
01:07:51,977 --> 01:07:56,177
So we're assuming a lot the car wash is
going to do the right thing.

1089
01:07:56,177 --> 01:07:58,777
We're assuming everybody's going to do
the right thing.

1090
01:07:59,767 --> 01:08:01,527
And some will and some won't.

1091
01:08:03,057 --> 01:08:04,057
How you know that?

1092
01:08:04,057 --> 01:08:09,012
There's no we don't have the.
When I say we the town does not have the

1093
01:08:09,012 --> 01:08:10,897
bandwidth to police it all.

1094
01:08:11,497 --> 01:08:11,897
I'm not.

1095
01:08:11,897 --> 01:08:15,137
And I'm not sure that's a a good use of
resources either.

1096
01:08:17,097 --> 01:08:21,257
So that's so then you're expecting people
to do the right thing?

1097
01:08:23,137 --> 01:08:27,857
My my my thought is is on the on the on
the commercial entities.

1098
01:08:29,167 --> 01:08:33,171
They if they're classified as a a large
volume user,

1099
01:08:33,171 --> 01:08:39,216
they they they are known to the town and
the town manager believes that there's

1100
01:08:39,216 --> 01:08:43,447
not that many of them,
that there are a number of them.

1101
01:08:43,487 --> 01:08:48,887
But if if staff could not handle
interacting with the number of.

1102
01:08:51,217 --> 01:08:52,497
Plans that they would have to receive.

1103
01:08:53,937 --> 01:08:55,777
Then I don't think they would have
suggested, isn't that?

1104
01:08:55,897 --> 01:08:56,497
Is that right?

1105
01:08:56,927 --> 01:08:58,847
I think that's probably fair statement.
OK.

1106
01:08:59,247 --> 01:09:02,873
I mean, you know,
it's any any new ordinance that we've had

1107
01:09:02,873 --> 01:09:04,807
this similar discussions before?

1108
01:09:05,487 --> 01:09:08,130
Ordinances are living,
breathing documents,

1109
01:09:08,130 --> 01:09:11,255
and if something's not working or it's
problematic,

1110
01:09:11,255 --> 01:09:16,182
we're going to bring it back to you and
and ultimately to the Council to amend it

1111
01:09:16,182 --> 01:09:19,727
so that it it is so it doesn't work the
way we want it to.

1112
01:09:22,797 --> 01:09:24,477
It's it's difficult.

1113
01:09:24,477 --> 01:09:28,434
It it's really,
really difficult to write an ordinance.

1114
01:09:28,434 --> 01:09:32,462
You you to capture 100% of everything you
want it to be.

1115
01:09:32,462 --> 01:09:37,197
You generally the kind of the rule of
thumb is you try to capture.

1116
01:09:38,737 --> 01:09:42,690
80 to 8080 percent,
85% of what you expect will happen,

1117
01:09:42,690 --> 01:09:48,480
and to have some reasonable suggestions
in the ordinance and how you sort of deal

1118
01:09:48,480 --> 01:09:51,657
with some of the Gray area in there but
you.

1119
01:09:52,007 --> 01:09:57,687
You try to create an ordinance that
effectively through collective reasoning.

1120
01:09:59,577 --> 01:10:03,321
You think has will work,
and if there's adjustments to it,

1121
01:10:03,321 --> 01:10:04,337
no harm no foul.

1122
01:10:04,337 --> 01:10:07,777
We just address it and we address it on a
timely matter.

1123
01:10:10,897 --> 01:10:14,531
Can I ask?
Did did the subcommittee or or in your

1124
01:10:14,531 --> 01:10:19,257
experience, Commissioner? Well did,
did you discuss residential?

1125
01:10:20,897 --> 01:10:21,977
Issues related to.

1126
01:10:22,287 --> 01:10:24,911
To you know,
self compliance and that kind of stuff

1127
01:10:24,911 --> 01:10:26,527
was that part of the discussion?

1128
01:10:26,687 --> 01:10:32,698
I believe we did touch on that and the
one thing that I think we kind of talked

1129
01:10:32,698 --> 01:10:38,559
about relating to that was I think for a
lot of ordinances we kind of rely on

1130
01:10:38,559 --> 01:10:40,287
self-compliance, right?

1131
01:10:40,287 --> 01:10:45,727
We kind of rely on people to do the right
thing and if it becomes an issue then.

1132
01:10:47,177 --> 01:10:49,737
Code enforcement gets involved or you
know, so I think.

1133
01:10:50,707 --> 01:10:53,347
The intention behind that I don't.

1134
01:10:53,347 --> 01:10:58,751
I don't know how to phrase this other
than kind of say it's it's understood

1135
01:10:58,751 --> 01:11:04,156
that it's not going to be enforceable to
every single infraction. You know,

1136
01:11:04,156 --> 01:11:06,147
it's just it's not possible.

1137
01:11:06,147 --> 01:11:11,267
It's not possible for code enforcement to
get to literally all of you know it.

1138
01:11:11,307 --> 01:11:14,907
So I I think it just kind of goes hand in
hand with the nature of.

1139
01:11:15,657 --> 01:11:17,817
Of what it is, if that makes sense.

1140
01:11:18,247 --> 01:11:19,647
It does.

1141
01:11:19,647 --> 01:11:24,762
It does to me in in the following way.
I the what what I imagine the way this

1142
01:11:24,762 --> 01:11:29,417
would work and and I I don't want to
speak for the town manager right,

1143
01:11:29,417 --> 01:11:34,467
but just my own imagination of how this
this plays out is and and and and I.

1144
01:11:34,457 --> 01:11:37,410
Base this on the way this is written
right?

1145
01:11:37,410 --> 01:11:42,647
So the town manager is overseeing like
how we get things. Keep keep it under.

1146
01:11:43,417 --> 01:11:46,876
The maximum,
and so he's largely going towards the

1147
01:11:46,876 --> 01:11:48,097
high volume users.

1148
01:11:49,087 --> 01:11:52,023
First,
because that's where if you're going to

1149
01:11:52,023 --> 01:11:55,897
expend staff hours,
that's where you're going to get the most

1150
01:11:55,897 --> 01:11:58,647
result for the effort that you put into
it.

1151
01:11:59,127 --> 01:12:04,487
Now if that doesn't achieve the full
result and there's still concern the town

1152
01:12:04,487 --> 01:12:09,779
manager has the ability operationally,
just like he can have discussions with

1153
01:12:09,779 --> 01:12:12,900
the Police Department based on crime
reports,

1154
01:12:12,900 --> 01:12:17,038
he can have discussions with code
enforcement and say, look,

1155
01:12:17,038 --> 01:12:19,617
if you were going to spend your, your.

1156
01:12:19,617 --> 01:12:21,287
Day today on business signage issues.

1157
01:12:21,287 --> 01:12:26,247
Forget about it for the next month.
I want you to focus on water.

1158
01:12:26,247 --> 01:12:31,011
Outdoor water usage with with sprinklers
and so and I think in that way it's not a

1159
01:12:31,011 --> 01:12:35,373
because I think the thing people worry
about when we talk about residential

1160
01:12:35,373 --> 01:12:39,677
compliance is that we're like asking
people to call in their neighbors and

1161
01:12:39,677 --> 01:12:41,457
have that kind of stuff. And I.

1162
01:12:41,457 --> 01:12:45,736
Think that's back to the common sense
kind of piece of this or that not being

1163
01:12:45,736 --> 01:12:47,327
heavy-handed is that is that?

1164
01:12:48,057 --> 01:12:48,377
The town.

1165
01:12:49,767 --> 01:12:54,543
Will operationally manage this and focus
the resources that they have in a way

1166
01:12:54,543 --> 01:12:57,567
that makes sense for the whatever state
we're in.

1167
01:12:57,567 --> 01:12:59,567
I also do think that.

1168
01:13:02,847 --> 01:13:06,097
People,
when you're in in a water emergency and

1169
01:13:06,097 --> 01:13:10,567
when those things are noticed,
people want to help out with that.

1170
01:13:10,647 --> 01:13:13,132
You know where where we are all in this
together.

1171
01:13:13,132 --> 01:13:15,767
And I know you know when we get when we
get notices.

1172
01:13:15,767 --> 01:13:19,706
I've lived other places where where you
you do see this happen sometimes.

1173
01:13:19,706 --> 01:13:22,687
And and I and I think people realize it
and they don't.

1174
01:13:22,687 --> 01:13:24,527
They don't just go well,
what are they going to do?

1175
01:13:24,567 --> 01:13:26,007
I'm just going to go wash my car anyway.

1176
01:13:26,007 --> 01:13:28,216
I mean,
I think mostly people are are trying to

1177
01:13:28,216 --> 01:13:30,287
like work together on these kinds of
things.

1178
01:13:30,987 --> 01:13:34,201
And and they're certainly they agree with
that and there's certainly an educational

1179
01:13:34,201 --> 01:13:34,737
component too.

1180
01:13:35,637 --> 01:13:41,331
So that if we if we have these alerts,
there's a ways of of getting the word out

1181
01:13:41,331 --> 01:13:45,197
through you know,
through our town newsletter website.

1182
01:13:46,577 --> 01:13:48,737
Educational announcements,
that sort of thing.

1183
01:13:50,577 --> 01:13:51,697
Yeah, go ahead.

1184
01:13:53,537 --> 01:13:55,537
Again, we're we're trying to write this.

1185
01:13:55,537 --> 01:13:59,637
We're we're writing this to sort of as
much as possible,

1186
01:13:59,637 --> 01:14:04,457
align ourselves with with the state's
temperament in terms of the.

1187
01:14:04,847 --> 01:14:10,954
In terms of of what the what they have
for water conservation work and so you'll

1188
01:14:10,954 --> 01:14:15,327
read that the state language is not it's
it's not really.

1189
01:14:17,297 --> 01:14:19,257
I don't think it's very handed.

1190
01:14:19,657 --> 01:14:23,512
It doesn't say that we're going to come
get you and we're, you know,

1191
01:14:23,512 --> 01:14:27,981
we're going to put cameras on everyone's
property to make sure that they're not

1192
01:14:27,981 --> 01:14:29,937
using more water than they have to.

1193
01:14:30,337 --> 01:14:34,334
There's there's a certain amount of,
you know, as Councilman Guttenberg said,

1194
01:14:34,334 --> 01:14:35,257
there's there's a.

1195
01:14:36,287 --> 01:14:38,367
You know, it's a common.

1196
01:14:38,847 --> 01:14:44,322
It's a common community effort to
preserve resources and I think education

1197
01:14:44,322 --> 01:14:46,367
becomes a huge part of that.

1198
01:14:48,137 --> 01:14:50,457
When you have a,
when you have a draught alert.

1199
01:14:50,817 --> 01:14:51,777
I've lived in.

1200
01:14:54,097 --> 01:14:57,657
Where I used to live,
droughts were very common and there is a

1201
01:14:57,657 --> 01:15:01,386
result we were all I was always getting
education material to do,

1202
01:15:01,386 --> 01:15:04,777
simple little things that could be done
to help save water.

1203
01:15:05,127 --> 01:15:09,194
Because it's important for people to know
that they save a little bit of water just

1204
01:15:09,194 --> 01:15:09,727
themselves.

1205
01:15:09,727 --> 01:15:13,904
It's probably insignificant,
but when you start adding that up or the

1206
01:15:13,904 --> 01:15:16,410
course,
the entire community makes a huge

1207
01:15:16,410 --> 01:15:19,393
difference.
And I think that's really kind of the

1208
01:15:19,393 --> 01:15:23,868
message that that this ordinance is
intending to try to address is do your

1209
01:15:23,868 --> 01:15:24,167
part.

1210
01:15:26,247 --> 01:15:26,807
I don't think.

1211
01:15:27,487 --> 01:15:31,487
I don't think that we'd be able to excuse
me, police, everyone.

1212
01:15:31,607 --> 01:15:36,167
I think that you know self compliance,
it is going to be a hard thing to do.

1213
01:15:36,247 --> 01:15:39,599
I know the last time we had a meeting,
Commissioner Ford,

1214
01:15:39,599 --> 01:15:43,876
I think it was like 2 meetings ago.
Commissioner Ford mentioned something

1215
01:15:43,876 --> 01:15:48,095
about having like a little dial or
something on the website that denoted

1216
01:15:48,095 --> 01:15:50,927
kind of where we were with regards to our
water.

1217
01:15:50,927 --> 01:15:51,767
Do you remember that?

1218
01:15:52,497 --> 01:15:53,457
Not off the top of my head.

1219
01:15:54,367 --> 01:15:55,967
But I believe he said. He said that.

1220
01:15:55,967 --> 01:15:56,607
Yeah, he.

1221
01:15:56,647 --> 01:15:57,247
I know, he said.

1222
01:15:57,287 --> 01:16:01,687
I remember him saying that and my point
for saying that is because.

1223
01:16:03,177 --> 01:16:07,531
It gets more real when someone has
something in front of them that's

1224
01:16:07,531 --> 01:16:10,687
tangible.
You know something that they can see it

1225
01:16:10,687 --> 01:16:14,663
it right now, you know,
everything is very abstract, you know.

1226
01:16:14,663 --> 01:16:19,144
And so it's going to take time.
Everything that we're trying to put in

1227
01:16:19,144 --> 01:16:20,217
place, these are.

1228
01:16:20,217 --> 01:16:23,257
You know things that is not just our town,
but also state level.

1229
01:16:23,847 --> 01:16:26,285
So we're trying to get these put into
place,

1230
01:16:26,285 --> 01:16:29,428
but self-compliance is going to be an
issue and you know,

1231
01:16:29,428 --> 01:16:31,487
I'm pretty sure we're all aware, yeah.

1232
01:16:32,977 --> 01:16:35,777
This this meeting was super helpful for
me, missing the last one.

1233
01:16:37,497 --> 01:16:38,897
We're putting up.

1234
01:16:38,897 --> 01:16:40,634
I mean,
correct me if the analogy is wrong,

1235
01:16:40,634 --> 01:16:42,017
but it's a speed limit sign, right?

1236
01:16:42,017 --> 01:16:43,217
Not everyone's going to.

1237
01:16:43,697 --> 01:16:46,457
Some people are going to speed,
but just having the sign is going to

1238
01:16:46,457 --> 01:16:46,857
reduce it.

1239
01:16:46,857 --> 01:16:50,956
Not everyone's going to get caught,
but that's just how I see it,

1240
01:16:50,956 --> 01:16:52,137
and it's a is that.

1241
01:16:52,877 --> 01:16:54,477
A great way to characterize it or not.

1242
01:16:55,807 --> 01:17:00,079
Well, I think it's, yeah,
it's it becomes like I was saying earlier,

1243
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:04,598
it's it's an educational thing, OK,
to make people aware and what you're

1244
01:17:04,598 --> 01:17:09,613
describing that the the Commissioner for
had had said it makes sense to me and I

1245
01:17:09,613 --> 01:17:12,647
think that's, you know,
there's there's lots of.

1246
01:17:12,647 --> 01:17:18,324
Different ways to educate the community
and I think that becomes another another

1247
01:17:18,324 --> 01:17:20,287
option to add to collective.

1248
01:17:21,017 --> 01:17:22,617
Educating the community where we're at.

1249
01:17:25,527 --> 01:17:27,807
Don't forget those speed cameras,
Commissioner. Golf.

1250
01:17:30,367 --> 01:17:33,896
Yeah. Commissioner Miller, Mr.
Dooley wouldn't give you give you,

1251
01:17:33,896 --> 01:17:37,694
give you the the naked compliment,
but I'll say it was a great analogy

1252
01:17:37,694 --> 01:17:40,047
because that's the only way it makes
sense.

1253
01:17:40,207 --> 01:17:40,487
I like it.

1254
01:17:40,487 --> 01:17:40,927
Yeah, that was a great one.

1255
01:17:40,927 --> 01:17:42,647
Specific, but we're.

1256
01:17:45,257 --> 01:17:48,537
So my we're supporting the partnership of
the community.

1257
01:17:50,337 --> 01:17:55,212
I I didn't have any other comments except
for if we're kind of finished with the

1258
01:17:55,212 --> 01:17:56,657
specifics you mentioned.

1259
01:17:57,337 --> 01:18:04,119
So the plan could potentially be have a
public hearing on October 6th and then

1260
01:18:04,119 --> 01:18:08,497
you were looking to push sometime late in
October.

1261
01:18:08,927 --> 01:18:12,207
Was there an intermediate point where the
Commission?

1262
01:18:14,557 --> 01:18:19,207
Whether or not there is significant
public comments or adjustments,

1263
01:18:19,207 --> 01:18:24,541
would we then need to revisit or is it
possible to have just a public comment

1264
01:18:24,541 --> 01:18:25,157
and then?

1265
01:18:26,617 --> 01:18:28,097
Push. There's a number six.

1266
01:18:28,337 --> 01:18:31,613
Yep,
using the word push is probably more than

1267
01:18:31,613 --> 01:18:33,217
I'm trying to describe.

1268
01:18:33,217 --> 01:18:34,137
Sure. We're just trying.

1269
01:18:34,137 --> 01:18:37,337
Just trying to efficiently process it
through the town.

1270
01:18:37,337 --> 01:18:40,305
The Commission can hold this as long as
it wants to,

1271
01:18:40,305 --> 01:18:43,497
and we can have a public hearing if we
see that there's.

1272
01:18:44,307 --> 01:18:46,707
We get a lot of comments on it or
suggestions.

1273
01:18:46,867 --> 01:18:48,547
Hey, maybe we wanna hold back on it.

1274
01:18:48,547 --> 01:18:52,027
Maybe we wanna continue the public
hearing, do some more refinement.

1275
01:18:52,347 --> 01:18:55,532
We wanna, you know,
staff and the Commission wants to make

1276
01:18:55,532 --> 01:18:59,527
sure that we have an ordinance that's
right for that's a good fit for the

1277
01:18:59,527 --> 01:19:00,067
community.

1278
01:19:00,067 --> 01:19:02,347
So there's no we don't have to rush
anything.

1279
01:19:02,987 --> 01:19:08,948
I'm just simply suggesting that if we
feel that we've, we've the Commission,

1280
01:19:08,948 --> 01:19:10,187
feels that that.

1281
01:19:10,897 --> 01:19:14,017
The draft ordinance has a eventually.

1282
01:19:14,527 --> 01:19:17,007
Becomes adopted. Is is adequate?

1283
01:19:17,007 --> 01:19:20,607
There's we can move it forward.
Here's a path.

1284
01:19:20,607 --> 01:19:23,048
Do that,
but it doesn't by any stretch of

1285
01:19:23,048 --> 01:19:27,292
imagination means that you have to hold a
public hearing on October six,

1286
01:19:27,292 --> 01:19:29,967
and you have to make a decision at that
time.

1287
01:19:29,967 --> 01:19:31,047
Let's see what happens.

1288
01:19:31,047 --> 01:19:34,167
I'm going to get comments back and we
feel that we can't.

1289
01:19:36,217 --> 01:19:39,337
If there's more work to be done,
then that's kind of an over process.

1290
01:19:45,217 --> 01:19:47,137
Are there any additional?

1291
01:19:48,577 --> 01:19:49,497
Comments. I have some.

1292
01:19:51,377 --> 01:19:54,377
I feel like I'm going to be on the island
by myself.

1293
01:19:54,377 --> 01:19:59,114
I I think in light of what everybody said
and I respect what everybody said and I

1294
01:19:59,114 --> 01:20:01,137
think there were some valid points.

1295
01:20:02,017 --> 01:20:02,697
I just.

1296
01:20:03,297 --> 01:20:08,257
I am grappling with this whole notion of,
oh, this is educational.

1297
01:20:08,257 --> 01:20:09,297
Well, let's do apsa.

1298
01:20:09,697 --> 01:20:11,137
I mean, we don't need an ordinance.

1299
01:20:11,567 --> 01:20:14,687
For education, if it's intended to be.

1300
01:20:16,977 --> 01:20:17,017
A.

1301
01:20:17,057 --> 01:20:22,642
A code that we will ensure enforce.
Then I think we need to make sure that

1302
01:20:22,642 --> 01:20:24,057
that is what it is.

1303
01:20:26,137 --> 01:20:27,577
This language around.

1304
01:20:29,497 --> 01:20:31,457
Common sense and.

1305
01:20:32,687 --> 01:20:34,727
And things like that.

1306
01:20:34,727 --> 01:20:38,687
That is so ambiguous and and I think we
all agree with that.

1307
01:20:39,447 --> 01:20:41,207
I'm just concerned about how we're.

1308
01:20:46,657 --> 01:20:48,097
How we're framing this?

1309
01:20:50,857 --> 01:20:55,137
Educating folks about this ordinance is
important.

1310
01:20:56,597 --> 01:21:02,109
I think that happens from my perspective.
Once you have the ordinance before it

1311
01:21:02,109 --> 01:21:06,037
goes into effect,
you do start to educate the community.

1312
01:21:06,037 --> 01:21:07,397
This is coming on board.

1313
01:21:07,397 --> 01:21:09,397
This is what the expectation is.

1314
01:21:09,677 --> 01:21:16,797
Here's how you play a role in ensuring
that this water conservation ordinance is.

1315
01:21:20,257 --> 01:21:21,657
Appropriately applied.

1316
01:21:23,417 --> 01:21:25,257
That is where I see the education at.

1317
01:21:25,967 --> 01:21:29,791
Once the ordinance goes into effect,
it ceases to be education.

1318
01:21:29,791 --> 01:21:33,198
It goes to enforcement,
and it's about ensuring that the

1319
01:21:33,198 --> 01:21:35,887
ordinance is doing what it's intended to
do.

1320
01:21:37,417 --> 01:21:39,097
That that's the the background I come
from.

1321
01:21:39,097 --> 01:21:43,697
That's the perspective that I've I've I
have.

1322
01:21:46,247 --> 01:21:47,127
Just leave it at that.

1323
01:21:48,657 --> 01:21:48,697
I.

1324
01:21:48,697 --> 01:21:51,217
I actually really agree with what you
just said.

1325
01:21:51,857 --> 01:21:51,897
I.

1326
01:21:51,897 --> 01:21:56,381
I mean the, the, the,
the thing that I think will happen it

1327
01:21:56,381 --> 01:22:02,286
like I think our scope on the Planning
Commission is focused on the the zoning

1328
01:22:02,286 --> 01:22:07,891
text amendment right and that is not a
place where you build a program for

1329
01:22:07,891 --> 01:22:10,657
education and do the things that you.

1330
01:22:10,657 --> 01:22:13,217
Talking about and and I think is that.

1331
01:22:14,097 --> 01:22:15,617
Like, where can we scratch that?

1332
01:22:16,047 --> 01:22:19,277
Part of this itch messed their Dooley
like is is that.

1333
01:22:19,277 --> 01:22:23,447
Is that something that staff can bring
along with this to the Council?

1334
01:22:23,447 --> 01:22:24,247
Because I can.

1335
01:22:24,287 --> 01:22:30,234
I I already know that there are members
of the Community who who feel that that

1336
01:22:30,234 --> 01:22:32,167
the, the, the level of of.

1337
01:22:34,017 --> 01:22:39,660
Water conservation that is contained in
this is not even close to what they think

1338
01:22:39,660 --> 01:22:44,615
we should be doing as a town.
I think that's what Commissioner Banks is

1339
01:22:44,615 --> 01:22:45,097
saying.

1340
01:22:45,527 --> 01:22:46,847
Is that OK?

1341
01:22:46,847 --> 01:22:52,794
So what are we doing in the meantime to
educate and and and and get get folks

1342
01:22:52,794 --> 01:22:58,207
socialized with a new way of thinking
about our water just in general?

1343
01:22:58,967 --> 01:23:03,684
Mr. Dooley, thank you. And and. Oh,
I'm sorry. And and just to add to that.

1344
01:23:03,684 --> 01:23:07,780
Thank you, Councilman Gutenberg,
for to add to that and I think I

1345
01:23:07,780 --> 01:23:09,767
mentioned this a meeting so ago.

1346
01:23:10,857 --> 01:23:15,297
This almost may seem punitive to people.
People are aware.

1347
01:23:15,647 --> 01:23:22,089
Of the town's water situation,
and now we're putting a lot of onus on on

1348
01:23:22,089 --> 01:23:24,207
residents, on taxpayers.

1349
01:23:25,977 --> 01:23:26,817
You know, how do we?

1350
01:23:27,137 --> 01:23:30,177
How do we try to offset that impression?

1351
01:23:30,177 --> 01:23:34,337
Because I'm a taxpayer,
I'm a resident and it does feel punitive.

1352
01:23:34,777 --> 01:23:37,417
You.
You're telling me when I can wash my car?

1353
01:23:37,657 --> 01:23:39,937
You're telling me when I can water my
lawn?

1354
01:23:41,657 --> 01:23:44,137
Is this because the town didn't manage it
water properly?

1355
01:23:44,607 --> 01:23:48,127
I think that's going to be the question a
lot of people have.

1356
01:23:48,127 --> 01:23:50,127
So I think we do need to do.

1357
01:23:51,577 --> 01:23:55,057
Some advanced separate and apart from the
public hearing.

1358
01:23:55,057 --> 01:23:58,346
Because we don't get a lot of people at
the public hearing,

1359
01:23:58,346 --> 01:24:01,417
so there needs to be some education,
serious education.

1360
01:24:03,137 --> 01:24:04,017
Communication.

1361
01:24:05,617 --> 01:24:08,697
With the residents prior to this going
into effect,

1362
01:24:08,697 --> 01:24:11,897
it would be my recommendation would be my
suggestion.

1363
01:24:12,807 --> 01:24:17,215
Because this one in particular hits
individuals directly,

1364
01:24:17,215 --> 01:24:22,687
I'd like to say one thing before you
respond. I I I know I can feel it.

1365
01:24:24,457 --> 01:24:27,337
We are about to get into the cooler
months.

1366
01:24:28,937 --> 01:24:32,746
October.
We're supposed to have a public hearing

1367
01:24:32,746 --> 01:24:38,577
and we probably won't be really
solidifying this maybe until November ish.

1368
01:24:39,927 --> 01:24:47,327
So are the water usage of the town will
be down OK?

1369
01:24:47,367 --> 01:24:49,207
Nobody's gonna be out watering their
lawns.

1370
01:24:49,207 --> 01:24:53,539
Nobody will be washing their cars,
so the educational aspect for this seems

1371
01:24:53,539 --> 01:24:57,872
to me like you'd be able to get it
through for the winter time just in time

1372
01:24:57,872 --> 01:24:58,727
for the spring.

1373
01:25:00,467 --> 01:25:02,307
Does that sound kind of.

1374
01:25:04,697 --> 01:25:05,337
Like an outlook?

1375
01:25:07,097 --> 01:25:09,137
I guess or an educational pathway.

1376
01:25:14,757 --> 01:25:19,746
I'm thinking about in terms of how to
communicate with the public beyond the

1377
01:25:19,746 --> 01:25:21,237
public hearing process.

1378
01:25:23,327 --> 01:25:28,626
Probably the best suggestion that I have,
at least as I'm standing here or thinking

1379
01:25:28,626 --> 01:25:32,601
about at this moment,
is that we have an opportunity to to use

1380
01:25:32,601 --> 01:25:37,207
our our Community newsletter that goes
out quarterly that could be used.

1381
01:25:37,207 --> 01:25:41,588
I can trap something up to basically say,
you know that what the what the what the

1382
01:25:41,588 --> 01:25:43,647
Planning Commission, the town is doing.

1383
01:25:45,177 --> 01:25:50,122
Provide provide a reference to to this
ordinance and what we're doing here to

1384
01:25:50,122 --> 01:25:51,137
allow people to.

1385
01:25:52,857 --> 01:25:53,057
Understand.

1386
01:25:53,367 --> 01:25:55,207
What what's being proposed?

1387
01:25:56,697 --> 01:26:01,145
I the the and and I can do that this week
'cause that can cause the it'll time very

1388
01:26:01,145 --> 01:26:04,217
well because the articles are due at the
end of the week.

1389
01:26:04,777 --> 01:26:05,777
I don't know when it gets.

1390
01:26:05,897 --> 01:26:07,977
I can't see her and tell you when it gets
published though.

1391
01:26:08,057 --> 01:26:08,577
I don't.

1392
01:26:08,617 --> 01:26:10,537
I don't know that that part of it.

1393
01:26:11,537 --> 01:26:18,709
I don't know if if if it's the advice of
the Commission to continue this until a

1394
01:26:18,709 --> 01:26:21,897
month after the newsletter goes out.

1395
01:26:22,247 --> 01:26:27,062
And then hold your public hearing so
people have the opportunity to digest it

1396
01:26:27,062 --> 01:26:27,927
or look at it.

1397
01:26:27,927 --> 01:26:30,593
Digest it,
and then they're ready for a public

1398
01:26:30,593 --> 01:26:31,047
hearing.

1399
01:26:32,457 --> 01:26:33,097
That might be an option.

1400
01:26:34,777 --> 01:26:38,070
If you're, if you want to pursue that,
like I said,

1401
01:26:38,070 --> 01:26:42,377
there's no specific time that it has to
be in front of the Council.

1402
01:26:44,057 --> 01:26:49,013
And I think the goal of this was really
to make this an ordinance that that the

1403
01:26:49,013 --> 01:26:52,297
Commission feels comfortable with to
promote to the.

1404
01:26:52,647 --> 01:26:56,621
To the town council now,
if we don't get any public comments,

1405
01:26:56,621 --> 01:26:57,647
we get very few.

1406
01:26:59,137 --> 01:27:02,336
Then you know it is what it is,
and but there might be some good comments

1407
01:27:02,336 --> 01:27:03,417
that come back from that.

1408
01:27:03,417 --> 01:27:08,349
So that might be an option that that
addresses your concerns for getting more

1409
01:27:08,349 --> 01:27:13,725
opportunity for public feedback awareness,
because that's going to go out to a whole

1410
01:27:13,725 --> 01:27:14,737
lot more people.

1411
01:27:16,417 --> 01:27:17,377
So that they're aware of it.

1412
01:27:21,987 --> 01:27:24,987
Yeah, it was. No, go ahead.

1413
01:27:25,267 --> 01:27:26,227
Yeah, I was gonna say.

1414
01:27:26,227 --> 01:27:31,378
I think that you know,
you also stated a really important thing

1415
01:27:31,378 --> 01:27:32,827
chair banks about.

1416
01:27:35,177 --> 01:27:39,621
How we got to where we are and I think
this is, you know, when Mr.

1417
01:27:39,621 --> 01:27:45,061
Dooley put up sort of like this series of
three things that are trying to be done

1418
01:27:45,061 --> 01:27:48,245
here.
This is part of a bigger area but but the

1419
01:27:48,245 --> 01:27:48,577
apfo.

1420
01:27:50,337 --> 01:27:50,577
A big.

1421
01:27:50,887 --> 01:27:57,270
Part of the driver of that for me is
exactly the scenario that you described,

1422
01:27:57,270 --> 01:27:58,007
which is.

1423
01:28:00,137 --> 01:28:05,735
That the town has made commitments to
growth through the Planning Commission

1424
01:28:05,735 --> 01:28:11,332
and and and through the Council to
development that has outpaced our ability

1425
01:28:11,332 --> 01:28:17,003
to issue permits and that that is a
problem and and that and and I agree with

1426
01:28:17,003 --> 01:28:19,257
exactly the sentiment you said.

1427
01:28:19,887 --> 01:28:24,526
And I think that I think it's good you
said it out loud like that because you

1428
01:28:24,526 --> 01:28:26,727
know it does have to be acknowledged.

1429
01:28:26,727 --> 01:28:34,224
I think the way we acknowledged it though,
in in in current time is is the APFO is

1430
01:28:34,224 --> 01:28:39,193
intended to make the capacities visible
to the public,

1431
01:28:39,193 --> 01:28:44,613
to staff and to policy makers,
and it introduces A level of

1432
01:28:44,613 --> 01:28:48,407
accountability that as we dig out of this.

1433
01:28:48,727 --> 01:28:51,087
Will keep us on a better path going
forward.

1434
01:28:51,087 --> 01:28:53,127
So I I do think that's there.

1435
01:28:54,897 --> 01:28:59,704
The the other piece I I that I still I'm
still not sure how to do it from the

1436
01:28:59,704 --> 01:29:00,937
Planning Commission.

1437
01:29:00,937 --> 01:29:07,183
I'm wondering if the the education piece
and and the piece the public awareness

1438
01:29:07,183 --> 01:29:09,057
piece, I'm wondering if.

1439
01:29:10,897 --> 01:29:13,257
You know, and I'm.
I'm just thinking out loud here in, in,

1440
01:29:13,257 --> 01:29:13,777
in some ways.

1441
01:29:13,777 --> 01:29:17,977
But like if the if another Commissioner
committee could take that on.

1442
01:29:18,727 --> 01:29:23,776
Like the the upcoming Sustainability
Committee or or or another area of of

1443
01:29:23,776 --> 01:29:27,681
governance oversight is maybe more
appropriate than what?

1444
01:29:27,681 --> 01:29:33,337
What it's hard for us I think here to get
outside of zoning text amendments, right.

1445
01:29:33,337 --> 01:29:36,434
So.
And I think as a matter of policy is what

1446
01:29:36,434 --> 01:29:37,377
we're talking.

1447
01:29:37,487 --> 01:29:37,767
About.

1448
01:29:39,297 --> 01:29:42,142
Related to education and things kind of
gets outside of it.

1449
01:29:42,142 --> 01:29:45,888
Or or maybe I'm assuming that wrong.
Is it appropriate or is it ever done that

1450
01:29:45,888 --> 01:29:46,457
way in code?

1451
01:29:46,457 --> 01:29:47,537
I haven't really looked into that.

1452
01:29:47,887 --> 01:29:50,607
In from from the standpoint of what we're
doing?

1453
01:29:52,417 --> 01:29:57,577
Is there a communications team in the
town of Laplata?

1454
01:29:57,577 --> 01:30:00,697
Is there we do have our our Pio.

1455
01:30:02,577 --> 01:30:05,157
With that could certainly be made aware
of it,

1456
01:30:05,157 --> 01:30:08,617
to again to advertise that the you know
what what we're doing.

1457
01:30:10,337 --> 01:30:13,647
The thing the the only thing I would
suggest is this is a great conversation

1458
01:30:13,647 --> 01:30:16,657
to have because we want being obviously
transparent to the Community.

1459
01:30:18,667 --> 01:30:24,479
The the one thing though,
back your mind to to remember is that

1460
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:25,387
it's it's.

1461
01:30:27,617 --> 01:30:31,057
It's becomes a very slippery slope that
if we,

1462
01:30:31,057 --> 01:30:35,450
if we do more outreach for for some
ordinances than others,

1463
01:30:35,450 --> 01:30:41,160
that somebody's gonna say is gonna cry
foul because we didn't follow the same

1464
01:30:41,160 --> 01:30:43,137
process that we did before.

1465
01:30:43,497 --> 01:30:47,925
And so that that becomes just something
to to lay in the calculus and your

1466
01:30:47,925 --> 01:30:48,457
thoughts.

1467
01:30:52,217 --> 01:30:56,051
Yeah, yeah, that, that,
that may be a problem.

1468
01:30:56,051 --> 01:31:00,457
But I was thinking that it's easy to
create AQR code.

1469
01:31:02,347 --> 01:31:06,827
You you put Flyers in the library with a
QR code that links to the ordinance.

1470
01:31:06,867 --> 01:31:07,867
People can read it.

1471
01:31:07,867 --> 01:31:09,787
You, you we have a website.

1472
01:31:09,987 --> 01:31:11,667
Yeah, we put it on the website.

1473
01:31:11,667 --> 01:31:15,183
We have a new billing system.
I think that has a capability of of doing

1474
01:31:15,183 --> 01:31:15,427
some.

1475
01:31:15,507 --> 01:31:17,787
Yeah,
you can add the ordinance to a QR code.

1476
01:31:17,787 --> 01:31:18,747
It costs you nothing.

1477
01:31:18,787 --> 01:31:20,747
You can randomly create a QR code.

1478
01:31:20,747 --> 01:31:21,347
People could.

1479
01:31:21,697 --> 01:31:26,140
These are cameras and open it up,
or you put a link or hard link for people

1480
01:31:26,140 --> 01:31:27,017
who are not as.

1481
01:31:28,507 --> 01:31:31,787
IPhone savvy as others to use the camera.

1482
01:31:31,787 --> 01:31:34,827
I mean and and I understand your point
about, you know.

1483
01:31:36,547 --> 01:31:38,187
Being selective.

1484
01:31:40,107 --> 01:31:43,387
Advertising. But I I just think this one.

1485
01:31:45,787 --> 01:31:47,307
May may hit people.

1486
01:31:48,987 --> 01:31:50,827
More than others, but we have.

1487
01:31:51,217 --> 01:31:56,240
We have sufficiently beat that proverbial
horse, so I will.

1488
01:31:56,240 --> 01:31:58,417
I will stand down on that.

1489
01:31:59,907 --> 01:32:03,507
Let me let me go back around one more
time. Any final comments on that?

1490
01:32:04,607 --> 01:32:05,847
Before we move forward.

1491
01:32:09,387 --> 01:32:12,315
OK, chair. If it's,
if I may and not if I can beat the horse

1492
01:32:12,315 --> 01:32:12,987
one more time.

1493
01:32:14,667 --> 01:32:16,227
Before you actually walk away from it.

1494
01:32:17,027 --> 01:32:22,644
So I'll I'll address with the with the
town manager about at least nothing else

1495
01:32:22,644 --> 01:32:28,332
to make the public aware that as part of
the town announcements we're working on

1496
01:32:28,332 --> 01:32:29,947
this on this ordinance.

1497
01:32:31,627 --> 01:32:33,147
So if they have questions or whatever.

1498
01:32:33,617 --> 01:32:39,137
They can engage without specifically
trying to solicit feedback in that forum.

1499
01:32:40,627 --> 01:32:43,707
Yeah, that sounds good.
Until it balances a little bit.

1500
01:32:43,707 --> 01:32:48,611
So that we're not being selectively
advertising certain words is more than

1501
01:32:48,611 --> 01:32:50,507
others. OK, that sounds good.

1502
01:32:52,387 --> 01:32:55,427
So let's move to the recommendation.

1503
01:32:57,107 --> 01:32:57,427
Of the planning staff.

1504
01:33:01,227 --> 01:33:02,987
Is there a motion to?

1505
01:33:05,457 --> 01:33:07,457
Adopt A recommendation that.

1506
01:33:09,067 --> 01:33:12,707
If we're generally satisfied that we hold
the public hearing October 6th.

1507
01:33:15,187 --> 01:33:18,627
Is there a motion on that or is there a
suggestion that?

1508
01:33:21,737 --> 01:33:26,817
We do October 6th with additional
comments and and caveats.

1509
01:33:29,637 --> 01:33:32,929
Madam Chair,
I'll I'll make a motion that we ask town

1510
01:33:32,929 --> 01:33:36,099
staff to use the feedback they've
received tonight,

1511
01:33:36,099 --> 01:33:40,732
both in writing and and orally through
through the content of this meeting,

1512
01:33:40,732 --> 01:33:45,426
to to make to the best of their judgment,
the intended updates that that the

1513
01:33:45,426 --> 01:33:46,707
Commission has given.

1514
01:33:46,707 --> 01:33:54,237
Them and that that we proceed to the the
public meeting the public hearing.

1515
01:33:54,947 --> 01:33:56,147
Next, next month.

1516
01:33:57,947 --> 01:33:59,227
And I'll leave the motion there.

1517
01:33:59,577 --> 01:33:59,777
There.

1518
01:34:00,697 --> 01:34:00,977
Yeah.

1519
01:34:03,547 --> 01:34:05,427
I will and just a just a.

1520
01:34:06,697 --> 01:34:09,259
Pull that string a little bit more the
well, I think though,

1521
01:34:09,259 --> 01:34:12,241
with the motion on the table,
I think we have to like close the motion

1522
01:34:12,241 --> 01:34:13,417
out and then we can do that.

1523
01:34:15,527 --> 01:34:17,407
If there's a second, I will second that.

1524
01:34:28,097 --> 01:34:28,817
Yes.

1525
01:34:32,787 --> 01:34:34,667
Commissioner, will, yes.

1526
01:34:36,387 --> 01:34:37,907
Mr. hudno? Yes.

1527
01:34:39,587 --> 01:34:40,547
Councilman gutenberg? Yes.

1528
01:34:44,537 --> 01:34:45,457
I'm a yes.

1529
01:34:48,467 --> 01:34:53,307
But with the that we retain the ability
to.

1530
01:34:56,147 --> 01:35:00,203
Further discuss and potentially have
another like we we still retain that

1531
01:35:00,203 --> 01:35:00,587
option.

1532
01:35:00,867 --> 01:35:03,828
Yes,
I I think when we October 6 won't be the

1533
01:35:03,828 --> 01:35:04,987
end all the right.

1534
01:35:04,987 --> 01:35:05,627
Yeah, right.

1535
01:35:05,627 --> 01:35:09,280
The the the outcome of that meeting is we
can sit here and say,

1536
01:35:09,280 --> 01:35:13,790
based on the amount of feedback we get,
we wanna keep the public meeting open,

1537
01:35:13,790 --> 01:35:17,787
the public record open right or the the
the. Yeah, the public record.

1538
01:35:18,337 --> 01:35:19,137
The public hearing.

1539
01:35:19,177 --> 01:35:20,417
The public hearing, yes.

1540
01:35:20,417 --> 01:35:24,230
Gotta use the right word so the public
hearings could stay open and we could ask

1541
01:35:24,230 --> 01:35:25,737
it to come back again and again.

1542
01:35:25,737 --> 01:35:30,610
We could do it until we are ready as a as
a group to forward a a final

1543
01:35:30,610 --> 01:35:36,445
recommendation to the Council and I think,
I think what Commissioner Hudnell said is

1544
01:35:36,445 --> 01:35:36,857
right.

1545
01:35:38,387 --> 01:35:43,153
From a weather standpoint,
we're probably not under any specific

1546
01:35:43,153 --> 01:35:45,867
pressure operationally to to do that.

1547
01:35:46,027 --> 01:35:48,867
I think there's other strategy things
that would maybe make this.

1548
01:35:49,537 --> 01:35:50,257
You know better.

1549
01:35:50,257 --> 01:35:53,456
Just in just a, you know,
I'm sure staff wants to, you know,

1550
01:35:53,456 --> 01:35:54,977
the plates getting loaded up.

1551
01:35:54,977 --> 01:35:57,057
I'm sure with with stuff all the time,
so yeah.

1552
01:35:59,307 --> 01:35:59,667
So what?

1553
01:35:59,667 --> 01:36:06,181
I what I failed to include in the as part
of the recommendation is that we adopt

1554
01:36:06,181 --> 01:36:07,307
your comments.

1555
01:36:08,067 --> 01:36:09,107
Councilman goodenburg.

1556
01:36:09,107 --> 01:36:11,627
Yeah,
I I feel like the motion the way it was

1557
01:36:11,627 --> 01:36:14,585
presented and what we voted on was
inclusive of that.

1558
01:36:14,585 --> 01:36:16,667
And I I think staff understands, yeah.

1559
01:36:17,137 --> 01:36:18,537
How's traffic?

1560
01:36:20,027 --> 01:36:24,947
OK, so director Dooley,
is there any new business?

1561
01:36:26,827 --> 01:36:27,587
Not tonight.

1562
01:36:27,587 --> 01:36:28,387
No, thank you.

1563
01:36:30,267 --> 01:36:33,707
Councilman Goodenberg,
do you have anything?

1564
01:36:35,387 --> 01:36:40,725
I I will just for just general awareness,
I think I said this last year around this

1565
01:36:40,725 --> 01:36:44,920
time that the Council this month is later
this month on the 17th,

1566
01:36:44,920 --> 01:36:46,827
that we're gonna be off doing.

1567
01:36:47,297 --> 01:36:49,737
Our our goals retreat our priorities.

1568
01:36:49,737 --> 01:36:53,240
I should say priorities retreat,
which will be a full day session,

1569
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:57,579
and so if there's anything you know that
that you have in mind that you'd like to,

1570
01:36:57,579 --> 01:37:00,298
you know,
have me carry with me in my mind or in in

1571
01:37:00,298 --> 01:37:02,337
an e-mail, please feel free to send it.

1572
01:37:02,337 --> 01:37:04,617
To me, but if not that,
that is all I have.

1573
01:37:06,037 --> 01:37:06,717
Thank you, Sir.

1574
01:37:10,017 --> 01:37:13,137
That concludes the meeting.

1575
01:37:13,137 --> 01:37:16,657
So the Planning Commission is officially
adjourned.