[0:03] Thank you. It is 6:00 PM,
the town of the Plata Planning Commission
[0:07] is called to order.
[0:08] Madam Clerk, would you please?
[0:11] Perform roll call for form verification
purposes.
[0:15] Certainly, ma'am, Commissioner, banks.
[0:18] Here here.
[0:19] Commissioner hardnell.
[0:22] Councilman guttenberg.
[0:23] Here here.
[0:24] Commissioner Wale.
[0:25] Here.
[0:27] Commissioner Miller.
[0:27] Here.
[0:29] Commissioner Ford is absent. Madam Mayor.
Madam Chair, you have the quorum.
[0:34] Thank you.
[0:37] Commissioner, well,
would you lead us in the Pledge of
[0:39] Allegiance, please?
[0:45] In the black community.
[0:49] Which it stands, one nation under God,
indivisible,
[0:54] with liberty and justice for all.
[1:02] Thank you, ma'am.
[1:06] We're gonna move to the approval of the
meeting minutes from our August 5th 2026
[1:11] meeting.
[1:11] Have all the Commissioners and Councilman
Goodenberg review the minutes from our
[1:16] August 5th meeting.
[1:19] Yes, yes, yes, thank you.
With the exception of Commissioner Miller.
[1:27] Is there a motion to approve the Minutes
as is?
[1:31] And or are there any changes or
corrections?
[1:36] I'll motion to approve the Minutes from
the August 5th meeting with no
[1:41] corrections or additions.
[1:43] Is there a second second?
[1:48] Councilman Gutenberg, what say you? Yes.
[1:53] Right. Sarah hudnall? Yes, Commissioner,
will.
[1:57] Yes, I am a yes.
[2:00] The Minutes of our August 5th meeting
have been approved in.
[2:06] Unanimously.
[2:08] It only took the third time.
[2:10] Thank you.
[2:12] Next on the agenda is the ex parte
disclosure.
[2:15] For the purposes of this disclosure,
have any of the Commissioners or
[2:19] counseling engaged in any off the record?
[2:23] Communications with applicants,
developers, stakeholders, neighbors,
[2:27] or other friends regarding any other
projects before the Commission or outside
[2:32] of the public hearing process.
[2:35] Councilman gutenberg. Was that you?
[2:36] No vice chair hudnell,
no commissioner Wale.
[2:41] None other than what's listed in the
staff report for the subcommittee.
[2:47] Can you elaborate?
[2:49] So we met on the subcommittee.
[2:50] So that's the only. Yeah,
that's the only conversation that I've
[2:55] had. OK, commissioner. No. And now that,
have I we got to pause here to to do the
[3:02] public comment.
[3:04] Are there any public comments?
[3:08] OK.
[3:09] There are none, so we will move on.
[3:12] Next on the agenda is old business.
[3:17] Which is the zoning text amendment
03/20/26.
[3:20] The Water Conservation Ordinance director
Dooley let me turn to you on this.
[3:29] Thank you, chair banks.
[3:32] What I'd like to do is to go through and
do a presentation on the change that have
[3:38] been made to the text of the draft
ordinance as it's presented to you
[3:42] tonight.
[3:44] And then I'll introduce some additional
comments that were provided today by
[3:51] Council liaison Gutenberg.
[3:54] So if I go to the slides.
[4:00] There we go. Next slide please.
[4:04] So this is zoning text, Amendment 03,
Dash 2026.
[4:08] This is a request to do a couple things.
[4:11] 1st it's to add Article 11 the water
conservation and Emergency Restrictions
[4:16] Ordinance to chapter one,
91191 zoning of Lopel to municipal code
[4:21] for the purpose of providing regulatory
provisions for water conservation
[4:25] measures and to add emergency
restrictions on water use during a town
[4:30] decl.
[4:30] Water conservation alert.
[4:32] And secondly, it's to amend Chapter 191.
[4:35] 48 landscaping, a little plate,
a municipal code for the purpose of
[4:39] facilitating water conservation.
Measures related to the installation of
[4:43] new landscaping for residential and non
residential developments.
[4:47] Next slide.
[4:52] In September of 2025,
the town council sought to ensure
[4:56] adequate public facility infrastructure
for new development apfo standards for
[5:01] water, sewer school,
seating capacity and roads were
[5:05] subsequently developed and adopted by the
town council earlier this year and are
[5:10] now codified. Next slide.
[5:14] Because of the Maryland Department of the
Environment will not expand the town's
[5:19] groundwater permit without supplemental
water resources.
[5:22] The town is in the process of advancing a
three-part water management strategy that
[5:28] includes our recently completed.
[5:31] Adequate public facilities ordinances,
which includes water negotiating a
[5:36] supplemental water agreement with the
county, which is in process,
[5:40] and 3rd developing a formal water
developing formal water conservation
[5:44] policy.
[5:45] Which are proposed under this Sony text
amendment. Next slide please.
[5:50] Give you a little bit of background since
we last met on this in June of 2026,
[5:55] the draft Water Conservation Ordinance
was introduced to the Commission for
[5:59] initial discussion the following month.
On July 7th,
[6:02] the Commission agreed that the draft
ordinance is an appropriate tool for.
[6:07] Managing water,
the Commission emphasized the draft
[6:09] ordinance must be reasonable, logical,
non punitive and aligned with state
[6:14] drought policies.
[6:15] A Planning Commission subcommittee,
composed of Commissioners,
[6:19] whale and banks,
was formed to help direct and refine the
[6:22] ordinance originally presented to the
Commission.
[6:25] The subcommittee met on July 20 on July
30th and August 13th, 2026.
[6:31] For the purposes of again of directing
and refining the ordinance.
[6:37] Based on those meetings.
[6:39] The subcommittee subsequently.
[6:43] Directed staff to make.
[6:45] Specific changes to the original draft
ordinance,
[6:48] which is now being presented tonight.
[6:51] Probably the most significant refinement
to the ordinance was taken to provide
[6:57] closer alignment with the state's
mandatory as the state's level 1
[7:01] mandatory water use restrictions for
consistency.
[7:06] With our work with this proposed
ordinance and state policy.
[7:09] Next slide.
[7:13] So under zoning text, Amendment 03,
Dash 2026,
[7:17] two sets of code amendments are proposed.
[7:20] The text amendments would be incorporated
within the following portions of Chapter
[7:27] 191 of the town's municipal code or
zoning code. In this case,
[7:32] it's Chapter 191 zoning section 191.
48 for landscaping and.
[7:38] Staff would be proposing Article 11 to
section 191 zoning for water conservation.
[7:43] And emergency restrictions. Next slide.
[7:49] So beginning with section 19148.
[7:55] A&B for landscaping.
[7:59] Aside from modifying the provision
requiring 2 to 3 inches of mulch to be
[8:04] used for new landscaping,
no changes were made or suggested made by
[8:09] the subcommittee subsection 5 or Excuse
me,
[8:12] Subsection B5 now states that planning
bed shall include sufficient mulch to
[8:17] reduce water to red.
[8:19] Evaporation.
[8:21] So to provide a little bit more
flexibility in terms of the amount of
[8:25] mulch the the subcommittee felt,
it was a little bit too granular to get
[8:29] into those levels of details. Next slide.
[8:34] So most of the proposed changes are under
article proposed under Article 11 Section
[8:41] 191.
[8:42] And to start with.
[8:44] Section 19198 a.
[8:46] The purpose, applicability,
and definition section,
[8:50] section A3 triple I was modified to
include land use such as data centers,
[8:56] hotels,
and motels as additional examples of
[8:59] designated large volume users.
[9:02] And again,
these were just more to identify.
[9:04] By other types of land uses.
[9:09] And that.
[9:11] Are typically designed large volume users.
Next slide.
[9:17] So no changes were proposed by the
subcommittee under the heading of
[9:21] declaration and rescission of Water
Conservation Alert next slide.
[9:28] Under the section 19198 C mandatory
outdoor water limitations,
[9:32] underwater Conservation alert heading the
PC subcommittee recommended the following
[9:38] that the town CEO or town manager may
adjust watering hours from the proposed
[9:44] standard from 6:00 PM.
[9:46] To 10:00 AM during a water conservation
alert for flexibility to the grass,
[9:52] watering is prohibited except as allowed
under the state's level 1 criteria.
[9:59] And.
[10:01] For the Commission's reference,
the the all of the state level 1 criteria
[10:05] was part of your package that was
included,
[10:08] so you can you can reference that and
then third exceptions have been
[10:12] introduced for water and grass in certain
cases.
[10:15] Such As for new sod installation,
agriculture when water conservation plan
[10:21] is in place and when water shut off
valves and drip irrigation systems are
[10:26] used for watering next slide.
[10:29] Under the heading prohibition of non
essential water use under a water
[10:34] conservation alert,
the following changes were suggestion.
[10:38] The section was expanded to prohibit
washing of paved surfaces such as patios,
[10:43] decks,
garages except for public health purposes.
[10:47] Which aligns with the state level 1
mandatory restrictions.
[10:51] It also prohibits mobile vehicle washing,
except for car washes that use recycled
[10:57] water or have a water conservation plan
in place and for essential maintenance of
[11:03] EMS vehicles like fire trucks,
police cars, whatnot,
[11:06] as well as public transportation and
construction equipment so that the the
[11:11] people can see.
[11:13] Out the vehicles for driving,
among other reasons.
[11:16] Next slide.
[11:19] Under recreational and decorative water
use under a water conservation alert.
[11:26] The use of reflecting pools was added to
recreational water features,
[11:31] which are prohibited under the draft
ordinance except when water is
[11:36] recirculated and then secondly,
the subcommittee added misting machines
[11:41] as a prohibited use of water because
there's no ability to recycle that next
[11:46] slide.
[11:51] Under the heading of water service to
patrons,
[11:54] this was added by the by the subcommittee
and it aligns with state guidelines,
[11:59] and it's it's concerning the service of
tap water or drinking water and eating
[12:04] established establishments are prohibited
except when requested by patrons,
[12:09] which is a fairly common.
[12:11] Water. Water.
[12:14] Limitation.
[12:16] Provision in in other communities.
Next slide.
[12:23] Under the heading large volume,
commercial,
[12:25] industrial and institutional users
underwater conservation alert.
[12:31] For large.
[12:32] For large volume users,
a minimum 10% water reduction goal was
[12:36] added to the draft ordinance as an
objective goal during water conservation
[12:41] alert. If required by the town manager.
[12:44] This is again consistent with state
guidelines.
[12:46] The Water Conservation Plan would
demonstrate.
[12:51] How reduced water?
[12:52] Our usage would be achieved in contrast
to comparable periods of the of this
[12:58] during the same year for prior years.
[13:03] Next line.
[13:06] There were no recommended changes under
emergency and health safety exemptions.
[13:12] In the draft ordinance, next slide.
[13:16] There are also no recommended changes
under the heading of relationship with
[13:20] alternative systems.
[13:23] Next slide.
[13:26] Water systems repairs was added to the
draft ordinance,
[13:30] and this provision specifies that
property owners of that property owners
[13:35] address any known water leaks on their
property as soon as practicable.
[13:41] To give them time to organize and collect
resources,
[13:45] they need to make necessary repairs.
So if there's ongoing water leaks on the
[13:50] property, they're known,
we'd like for the the community to or
[13:54] property owners to fix those as soon as
possible.
[13:58] Next slide.
[14:01] Under enforcement and penalties,
an advisory position provision was added
[14:06] to the draft ordinance to state that a
common sense approach shall be taken.
[14:11] Reasonable enforcement of the water
conservation provisions under this
[14:16] article and the the idea behind that was
really to.
[14:22] Provide or to set a tone for the spirit
of the necessary of any necessary
[14:28] enforcement activity.
[14:30] It's it's not to to go out and and harass
proper owners at all.
[14:36] It's just meant to say, look, you know,
if somebody worked with the property
[14:40] owner, there's a known problem out there.
[14:43] But not, you know, not over overly.
[14:47] Not overly be demanding.
[14:49] Let's work with the property owner.
[14:51] That's that's really at the heart of what
the intent is here.
[14:55] Next slide.
[14:58] No changes were proposed under
Severability.
[15:02] The next slide,
underwater exemption or excuse me
[15:05] underwater hardship exemption application.
[15:08] The PC Subcommittee Committee provided
provisions to create a more structured
[15:13] process that gives the Chief executive
Officer Town manager guidance on how to
[15:19] evaluate a request for exemptions to one
or more of the provisions of the draft
[15:25] water ordinance,
and then the ability to appeal the town
[15:29] man.
[15:29] 'S decision to the Board of Appeals.
[15:31] If he or she denies a water hardship
exemption application,
[15:35] and again this the process is to give
appellants greater due process than the
[15:40] prior draft ordinance did to promote
fairness in in reasonable consideration
[15:45] of water usage concerns by any member of
the public.
[15:50] And next slide.
[15:53] And as I mentioned earlier,
the Commissioner liaison, Gutenberg,
[15:57] did provide some additional comments or
his comments today, which were.
[16:05] Before you as a hard copy and also added
to the town's website.
[16:12] Staff has not received any other
Commissioner comments on on this
[16:14] particular zoning ordinance at this time.
[16:18] These comments have been should be excuse
me.
[16:22] The Commission should consider these
comments in addition, to course,
[16:26] any feedback received tonight by other
members of the Commission next slide.
[16:33] SAS recommendation is subject to the
Commission's feedback and the revisions
[16:37] on the current draft and the revisions on
the current draft ordinance.
[16:41] The Commission should direct staff on
whether or not the Commission is ready to
[16:46] proceed with a public hearing on zoning
text Amendment 03/20.
[16:50] 26 for the October 6, 2026,
Planning Commission meeting,
[16:54] which is your next meeting following this.
[16:58] So with that.
[17:00] You have.
[17:03] Commissioner.
[17:04] Commission liaison Gutenberg's comments.
[17:08] If you have any questions,
happy to answer them at this time.
[17:12] Thank you.
[17:14] Before I turn to my colleagues here,
I just want to make one correction.
[17:19] For the record.
You said that the subcommittee was
[17:23] comprised of Commissioner well and
Commissioner banks.
[17:27] It's actually, Commissioner,
will and Commissioner Ford.
[17:31] I'm I apologize.
[17:32] Yes, Commissioner, I was looking.
[17:35] I think I was looking at you.
[17:37] Yes, it's commissioner.
[17:38] Commissioner Ford and Commissioner whale
well,
[17:41] actually it was written in the in your
presentation. Oh, OK.
[17:44] So Mark, my apologies.
[17:47] No worries, I'll take credit.
[17:51] So let me turn to again my colleagues
here.
[17:55] Commissioner Miller, any thoughts?
Any comments?
[18:02] Yeah. Good evening.
[18:04] Good to see you.
[18:04] I was here not here last week or last
month.
[18:09] I do think that the Subcommittee and the
staff did a a good job addressing a lot
[18:14] of consideration.
[18:15] I think most of my initial comments from
the June meeting.
[18:21] Were addressed.
So if I repeat anything that we talked
[18:24] about,
I apologize from from the August meeting.
[18:30] For.
[18:33] Did did we discuss a sunset clause like
for to like a 60 day sunset clause,
[18:39] or is it still indefinite?
[18:42] Or was there any discussion or reason why?
[18:45] Well, the well, the sunset,
there is no specific sunset clause.
[18:49] The the the water Conservation Alert
would be.
[18:55] Would be.
[18:57] There be a subsequent.
[18:58] Ultimately,
there'd be a subsequent announcement when
[19:01] it would no longer be in effect if that's,
but I'm not quite sure.
[19:05] Otherwise, it could be just indefinite.
[19:08] Alert the well.
[19:10] The alert would be rescinded at at some
point when there was no longer the need
[19:15] for the water conservation alert,
and that would that would be largely
[19:19] based on following the state's path.
[19:24] And did we discuss any metrics of how we
wanna,
[19:27] how we can measure the effectiveness of
the program?
[19:32] Like we expect it to reduce consumption
by 10% and then we could show that, hey,
[19:39] this plan is actually successful and the
following ways.
[19:46] To answer your your question straight up,
no,
[19:49] there's there's no specific analysis for
that.
[19:52] It's sort of a little bit difficult a
little bit.
[19:57] Challenging to to make certain
assumptions and how we would actually go
[20:00] out and force and measure that.
[20:02] We do know that that we can measure water
use by by by building cycle and actually
[20:09] reading the meters.
But the only fundamental water reduction
[20:14] that we could measure is if we wanted to
have a water conservation reduction.
[20:21] Of 10% to for like large users or for car
washes that don't have recycled water for
[20:28] example.
[20:28] Because we can.
[20:29] We can identify what their usage was at
the same time during the prior year and
[20:35] what measures that they would use in
order to reduce that water down by 10%.
[20:41] But aside from the overall overarching
ordinance to actually say this is going
[20:47] to reduce water by a.
[20:48] Certain percentage now.
[20:49] And and that would be.
[20:50] A bit challenging perhaps to do so.
I'm not sure what that metric would
[20:54] really look like.
[20:55] I saw that it was mostly like meter
readings is.
[21:01] Like the primary way,
but there would be no way to make a
[21:05] distinction of this individual or entity
violated.
[21:08] The they weren't in compliance versus
maybe they just had extra family members
[21:14] in for that week or whatever.
[21:15] There would be no.
[21:16] I mean,
I like how we added the common sense
[21:18] approach.
[21:22] Yeah,
there would just be no way to make a
[21:24] distinction from meter reading.
[21:26] That's not all we can do. I mean,
you know,
[21:29] part of the part of the ordinance is is
intended to be.
[21:35] It for it's it's certainly it's the
ordinances tend to be enforceable but
[21:40] it's it's also meant to to collaborate
with the community and and part of that
[21:45] collaboration means education providing
you know some.
[21:50] At least if there is a.
[21:52] A water issue to work with the property
owner to help them understand what the
[21:57] ordinance is and what the the public
policy is intended to achieve.
[22:03] To to get their sort of get their
attention and cooperation understanding.
[22:09] And so it's it's not meant to, you know,
immediately try to, you know enact,
[22:14] you know,
draconian efforts to get them to reduce
[22:18] the water.
[22:20] So it's it's there, it's.
[22:22] That you would be there to to use as a as
the legislative backup to deal with,
[22:27] but it's fundamentally it's.
I think there's a lot of personal
[22:31] relationships that need to be developed
to help facilitate and successful
[22:35] implementation. If there were problems.
[22:39] Yeah, I appreciate that.
[22:40] That part of it.
[22:41] Is there a my last question for now would
be the conservation plan that an entity
[22:49] or the.
[22:51] Would.
[22:52] Possibly submit?
Would there be any template or?
[22:58] Any way to say this is what you need to
have outlined?
[23:03] For a conservation plan to be accepted,
or that's something we have not done at
[23:08] this point,
if the ordinance is ultimately adopted,
[23:11] we'll have to develop some administrative.
[23:15] Policies for how we would achieve that.
[23:18] And I think that's more of a minor,
a minor that makes sense.
[23:23] Policy development.
This might be out of scope,
[23:27] but do we have any?
[23:30] Kind of sense of an additional
administrative burden this might put on
[23:36] the.
[23:37] On the department.
[23:39] Well, it's.
[23:43] At this point, I would. I would.
[23:47] I can't for the planning department.
[23:49] No, it will really has no additional.
[23:52] Significant impact where it's really
going to impact potentially its Co
[23:55] enforcement,
which is in a different different
[23:57] department than planning, but.
[24:01] The Water Conservation Ordinance,
I wouldn't expect to have any,
[24:05] any significant impact on either
department.
[24:07] Ultimately,
I don't really expect you know that to
[24:11] have a recurring issue.
[24:13] User alerts on a normal basis. I mean,
we're going to have them from time to
[24:18] time if there's if there's code
enforcements made aware of it,
[24:22] as we always do,
we always pretty collaborate pretty well
[24:25] together.
And and I just don't see any significant
[24:28] impact on staff on.
[24:29] This one OK.
[24:30] I appreciate that.
[24:32] I think most of most of my initial
comments were addressed in in some form,
[24:36] so I don't have any additional.
[24:39] Comments any further.
[24:42] Thank you, Commissioner wheel.
I do not have any additional comments.
[24:48] Thank you.
[24:49] I have a couple.
[24:52] Questions.
[24:55] As part of the staff report in the
background, we,
[24:58] the very last sentence talks about.
[25:02] Why we believe that or why staff believes
it's appropriate to consider developing
[25:08] this ordinance and it says at the end
particularly.
[25:12] In a state declared drought,
would there be an other reason we would
[25:19] use this?
[25:22] For this ordinance, no.
[25:24] OK.
[25:24] It's it's.
It's really intended to align with again
[25:27] with state policy.
[25:30] When there's a water conservation alert,
we also want to be able to have
[25:34] enforcement abilities,
but align also with the with state
[25:37] requirements as well.
[25:41] Maybe I'm being pedantic.
When I when I see,
[25:44] particularly in a state declared drought.
[25:51] Why?
Why would we use the word particularly
[25:54] just?
[25:54] It was just a choice of words, OK?
[25:56] There's no,
there's no intended or implied.
[26:02] Heightened sense of of urgency.
Using that word I could have.
[26:06] I could have simply used the word in
addition to.
[26:11] Or when or when in estate. OK, declare a.
My other question is kind of goes to what,
[26:17] Commissioner?
[26:19] Will saying under the.
[26:23] The water system repairs where we talk
about homeowners or development leaks and
[26:30] are we looking for self reporting or are
we back to looking at meter usage if we
[26:36] see if somebody in public works sees hey,
they used this amount of water and now
[26:43] they're tripling it there.
[26:46] Must be a leak somewhere.
[26:48] That it it could be in in that particular
case,
[26:50] if somebody is Bill is is escalating and
we're become aware of it,
[26:54] that might be a reason for code
enforcement or public Works department to
[26:59] go out and look to see if there was,
if there's a water le.
[27:02] That's either that that's associated with
a particular property.
[27:08] Does that happen routinely?
[27:11] I can't answer to tell you I can't answer
how routinely that OK may or may not
[27:15] happen.
[27:16] I know that in often times you have
property owners that have sprinkles
[27:21] sprinklers the the sprinkler head is
broken.
[27:26] And and so you'll see a trail of water,
you know,
[27:29] leading down the sidewalk or onto
somebody onto the grass or whatever.
[27:34] And it's just basically to say, hey,
if you have a water leak or we identify a
[27:38] water leak.
[27:39] We want you to try to fix it as soon as
you can, but we're not gonna be overly,
[27:43] overly aggressive about it.
[27:48] OK.
[27:48] I'll stop right there.
[27:49] Let me turn to you right. Sure. Hold on.
[27:54] I just have one question and I believe
one of my questions kind of piggybacks on
[27:59] yours, Commissioner Gutenberg.
Councilman guttenberg.
[28:02] But so I'm going to stay away from that
one.
[28:04] I'm going to let you have it.
The one that I have though,
[28:07] and you guys could have mentioned this
before and I'm sorry if I've I've blanked
[28:11] because we've been talking about this for
a very long time, not just tonight,
[28:15] but another meetings but.
[28:18] Um,
relative to the 80% that I hear this
[28:21] trigger?
[28:23] Where are we right now?
[28:24] Close to that.
[28:27] I don't have the exact number,
OK in my head.
[28:30] I can tell you that that we're we're just
under 80%,
[28:34] but I don't have that exact statistic for
you.
[28:36] I can.
[28:37] I can certainly provide it to you, OK.
And then also just one more kind of
[28:42] piggybacks on that one, not yours.
[28:45] In the last five years.
[28:48] How close have we gotten to that 80% that
I I can't.
[28:52] I do not have the answer to that.
[28:54] That was on how to investigate that.
[28:58] You know that that 80% of what I can tell
you is that that 80% CAP is really there
[29:04] to you know, we still have another 20%,
right.
[29:08] But we also have spikes during the summer
periods and so that that's is to allow
[29:14] for a sufficient room extra reserve.
[29:17] If you will so that we don't go over our
our state permit requirement which is 1.
[29:24] 234 million gallons per day.
[29:27] It's but every but that getting closer
and closer to 80% just reduces that that
[29:33] potential of us going over our state
permit.
[29:36] Because what?
[29:38] I know Councilman Gutenberg is about to
also talk about is that 10% for a large
[29:44] volume?
[29:46] Commercial.
[29:47] Facilities.
And so I know he's about to talk about
[29:50] about kind of segue just a little bit
when your usage increases.
[29:56] Is that percentage for them also going to
go down?
[30:01] So will they stay at 10% even though the
80% has gotten higher?
[30:07] Because I guess that's what I think.
[30:11] So as the 80% goes up, will there?
Will they remain at the 10% or will their
[30:16] percentage drop?
[30:17] To try to, you know, level.
[30:22] They're they're still gonna have.
[30:24] Now I'm going.
[30:24] Ultimately,
they would be for large volume user.
[30:28] We're still it would be 10% below
whatever it was that they're.
[30:34] They're level.
They suspected that 10% would be below
[30:38] what that level was and in the in the
prior years.
[30:43] At the same time period that the water is
being consumed now. OK, OK.
[30:49] Those are the only questions I had.
[30:52] I I if I I'll, I'll, I'll,
I'll take a stab at that.
[30:56] Yeah,
I think the distinction you're making is
[30:59] that.
[31:00] In a water conservation plan by a large
volume user,
[31:05] the goal is to have them have a plan that
reduces their typical bill over a period
[31:11] of time or or meter by 10%.
[31:15] But there's also a portion,
I think that says.
[31:19] The town's goal is to reduce overall by
10%.
[31:22] Percent,
which is of that permit number and that's.
[31:26] Yeah.
I think there's two places where it kind
[31:29] of addresses that.
[31:30] Yeah, yeah,
I was speaking to the to what you,
[31:33] the the former.
[31:35] Yeah. In terms of the the business use,
yeah.
[31:39] Good, good point. Yeah.
[31:42] All right.
[31:43] Yeah. So I what I'd like to do is.
[31:49] Boy, I've spent a lot of hours with this,
so I'd let I'd let I'm.
[31:52] I've been itching to get all this off my
chest so.
[31:56] What I'd like to do is so first I'll say
you know that I do appreciate the work
[32:00] that was done on this.
The amount of work that was done between
[32:04] the the couple of versions.
I think it was really worth it.
[32:07] And and there's a lot of good.
[32:08] Features in here.
[32:11] But but there there's one thing in here
that really concerns me.
[32:14] And then there's some other things that I
just think we just would be benefited by
[32:18] talking about.
[32:19] So let me hit the one that.
[32:22] Really concerns me first.
[32:25] And this is the addition of.
[32:30] Terms and specifically the term data
centers, drew my eye for what?
[32:35] For many people I'm sure will be obvious
reasons and I think we need to.
[32:39] We need to kind of have a conversation
real quick about.
[32:44] How laplata's land use ordinance works
and its relation to state code?
[32:51] So in in in section A3 of this draft.
[32:59] It lists, among other things,
it has a bullet size list that includes
[33:04] descriptions of what could be large
volume users,
[33:08] and one of them is data centers and and.
[33:13] However.
[33:15] In Maryland,
land use Article Division One, Title 4,
[33:19] which is that is the Maryland State law
that gives laplata as a municipality its
[33:25] authority to govern zoning within the
incorporated limits of the town.
[33:33] What is permitted in an industrial light
or heavy zone is specifically governed by
[33:41] a.
[33:42] Table it's the permissive zoning table.
[33:46] It's 191-8,
and if you're worried about data centers
[33:50] in La Plata,
that's the table to look at because it
[33:54] does not in any shape or form.
[33:58] List.
[34:00] Either permitted conditional or as a
special exception anywhere in that table.
[34:05] Does it say that you could do that
anywhere in the town?
[34:08] So my concern is,
is that including a reference.
[34:12] That identifies data centers as a type of
large volume user in laplata or anything
[34:18] else in that list, frankly.
[34:20] And I didn't. Yeah.
[34:23] That that it risks creating an implied
land use and that and also it it could be
[34:29] used by an applicant that comes in here
and says well this table over here says
[34:34] this. But over here it says this.
[34:37] So you know,
where can we meet in the middle?
[34:39] Can I do a small data center?
[34:40] Right, this is.
[34:42] Not the way this works at all,
and I think that that we we introduce
[34:47] problems by flirting with that kind of
language,
[34:50] that that gets outside of that very
specific 191-8.
[34:55] So what?
[34:56] What I'm gonna say is like,
as soon as you get to the end of that
[35:00] that section, Section 3,
I think it just ends and you just delete
[35:04] that entire list because any large volume
user first of all,
[35:07] the town already knows who they are
because the town.
[35:10] Sees them,
the metered all of the meter values.
[35:14] The town manager has, I think,
at Council sessions has talked to us
[35:18] about some of them.
[35:18] I mean,
he he has the list of them so and the
[35:21] permitted uses are identified elsewhere.
[35:25] So we don't have to.
[35:26] You know, cross that up.
[35:29] So you know that that's my recommendation
there.
[35:32] My strong recommendation, I think.
[35:36] For and and Councilman Goodenberg the the
the intent was was really just to
[35:40] completely understand where you're coming
from.
[35:42] That makes complete sense, I think,
when when the subcommittee met, we were,
[35:47] we were trying to create an image so that
somebody would understand.
[35:50] You know what our typical large volume
users and.
[35:56] I don't think we we considered the fact
that. And you're right, we should.
[36:00] We should really align it to those those
uses that are in our code.
[36:03] And it was unintentional.
[36:04] But yes, we don't.
[36:06] We staff certainly doesn't win.
I don't think that the subcommittee is
[36:10] ever wants to suggest that data centers
are permitted to use the talent.
[36:13] Yeah. So I I agree.
[36:15] I I absolutely agree with what you're
saying.
[36:17] What you're saying it's a really good
idea, but also one thing.
[36:20] What if you wanted to just go one step
further and just put the amount of water
[36:25] used by large volume user and say for
instance if you know if you're using this
[36:29] much water blah blah blah blah,
this is what you would be identified As
[36:33] for a large.
[36:34] Volume user.
[36:35] I think that that is a yeah,
that is a good question. I I.
[36:41] Considered a large volume.
[36:47] From memory I believe,
and this might be putting you on the spot
[36:52] down,
but I believe from the water report days
[36:55] right back many, many months ago when.
[36:59] Mr.
Stevens had these discussions with us on
[37:02] water I.
[37:03] I.
[37:03] I believe he has a number that.
[37:05] Defines that already.
[37:06] I don't know if it's in code or if it's
in policy,
[37:10] but there was a number I haven't.
[37:12] I can't remember the number off the top
of my head,
[37:15] but I remember there was a threshold
discuss.
[37:18] That's like your large volume user and
it's not a number that it,
[37:22] I mean it sticks out like a sore thumb.
[37:24] It it's not a grey zone kind of thing.
[37:26] It's really clear.
[37:28] Yeah,
I think that'd be best if you took out
[37:30] the list and just put that.
[37:33] Clear identifier there.
Then any business would know or person
[37:35] would know.
[37:36] Hey, if I'm hitting this market.
[37:37] Mark, I'm a professional user.
[37:39] It might.
[37:40] It might have been that it was a number,
like if you're in the top 1% or top,
[37:44] what there was some percentage of I I
feel like to whatever it was, yeah.
[37:50] And to.
[37:53] To respond to that,
what we might do is just is just
[37:57] completely delete triple I out of there.
[38:01] Yeah,
because we've identified in the
[38:03] definitions a large volume user means any
nonresidential or mixed-use development
[38:08] that either one consumes an average of 10,
000 gallons per day or more based on the
[38:14] most recent three consecutive building
cycles or uses 300,000 gallons or more.
[38:20] In a single building cycle,
and I think that defines it.
[38:23] And then we eliminate all the uses on
there,
[38:26] and we think that gets us to a happy
place. Great. Yep.
[38:32] Yeah, I agree.
[38:34] Yeah, that takes care of it then.
[38:41] All right, you know,
so I'll keep walking through these.
[38:44] But you know at the end, maybe, Mr.
Dooley. You know, I don't know.
[38:49] I don't want to kind of like stop and
kind of take a vote on every single one
[38:53] of these,
because there's about 10 of them to go
[38:56] through.
[38:57] Not not that I think many were going to
take that long.
[39:01] Did did you have a suggestion or?
[39:05] Here's what I can tell the Commission as
a whole is staff has reviewed these the
[39:09] suggestions.
[39:10] I think they align well with the intent
of the ordinance.
[39:15] I think they're they're very well thought
out and I think they can be easily.
[39:21] Incorporated or modified ordinance
incorporated and staff has no objections
[39:26] to any of the suggestions.
[39:30] And I'm happy to kind of just overview
him.
[39:33] I can.
[39:34] Kind of go through them quick and and
maybe if we need to talk about any of
[39:37] them, I'm happy to do that.
If if if there needs to be more
[39:40] discussion.
[39:42] That's what staff sent those out earlier
today to to infants, to you,
[39:46] and provided the hard copy.
[39:47] So we could talk about it effectively.
[39:51] So before you before you do that,
Councilman Gutenberg,
[39:55] let me let me turn to the Commissioners
and 1st ask,
[39:58] did everyone have an opportunity to
review.
[40:03] Councilman guttenberg's. Yes, yes.
[40:08] Are there any specific questions or
concerns?
[40:13] With Councilman Gutenberg's suggestions.
[40:18] Commissioner Miller,
just out of curiosity,
[40:21] where did the three days comes from for
the three six consecutive days for the
[40:26] 90%?
[40:27] Yeah. So actually,
so there's there's probably two or three
[40:31] of them anyway that I'd like to talk
about probably with with staff because
[40:35] you know that they are my view of a way
of a solution.
[40:38] But you know I'm not.
[40:40] I'm not opposed to other solutions.
[40:44] You know those kinds of things so.
[40:46] That one is if we want to just go right
to that one, that was the.
[40:52] Which one was that?
[40:54] Commissioner Miller.
[40:56] Four. Yeah, so OK.
[40:59] So yeah, and this actually really.
[41:03] Commissioner Hudnell as well was was
talking about this in her question.
[41:06] So the the thing that that I was
concerned about is exactly what
[41:12] Commissioner Hudnell said,
which is how close are we and the way the
[41:18] wording in the draft.
[41:22] Zoning.
[41:23] Text is that.
[41:27] The the concern is,
is that we would be potentially.
[41:31] Close to being in a perpetual state of
this.
[41:36] Because of a lack of a water agreement
and the amount of development that we've
[41:41] had in the town.
[41:44] And and we're going to have to reconcile
that and so.
[41:50] I don't know what staff's view of that is.
[41:53] But it really goes to the question of,
you know, in forecasting by by staff,
[41:58] you know, are we,
do we need to accommodate the reality
[42:02] that we're going to be in for some
unknown period of time?
[42:09] You know, I I guess that's yeah,
that's that's the totality of that
[42:12] question.
[42:15] And as part of our our regular,
if you'll recall from the Apfo for water
[42:19] that we did in sewer,
we have that we we do a a a BI yearly.
[42:24] Update on our water and on our water and
sewer capacity.
[42:28] And I think that we just have to we have
to use those numbers.
[42:34] And I think that it's hard to say at this
point, but because we don't have water,
[42:38] we don't have a water agreement.
We don't have much water.
[42:41] Ultimately we'll get.
[42:44] And I think Councilman Guttenberg's
points well taken is that it's hard to.
[42:48] It's hard to know how long this will be.
[42:50] I think that well, I think you know,
sitting here a year from now, I think.
[42:54] Maybe have a better idea because we
should have a,
[42:57] hopefully a water agreement in place,
but we we we should assume the worst case
[43:02] scenario because that's the the most
sound because we don't have anything in
[43:07] place that tells us that we're going to
have adequate water.
[43:12] Anytime soon.
[43:15] So yes,
I think we are going to make that basic
[43:18] assumption that we're this is going to be
a perpetual state.
[43:23] And the.
[43:25] We're trying to dig ourselves out of it.
[43:28] So so maybe with this one it is the the
the question is really you know this is
[43:35] the suggested language however.
[43:38] Staff should look at the 90% that's there
and and the number of consecutive days.
[43:45] And give us that back when we come back
next month as like a formal
[43:50] recommendation based on some assessment
of of where we are, what what,
[43:55] what makes sense there.
[43:57] Leave it at 80% consecutive days is
different or you know because I know
[44:03] there's there's complexity in the
interplay with the with the permit,
[44:08] because there's there's a overall limit
in monthly draw,
[44:13] but there's also peak day limits, I think.
And I think that is a complex.
[44:18] That is hard for us to appreciate and
figure out how to probably get in into
[44:23] code in a way that makes sense.
[44:26] Without staff input.
[44:28] Yeah, that that's something we can.
[44:30] We can talk to public works about and see
what they would recommend. Yeah,
[44:34] thank you.
[44:35] Yeah. OK.
[44:38] Umm.
[44:40] Another one that I thought would be good
to to have a conversation about is.
[44:51] #10 actually.
[44:55] So with standards for commercial car
washes with high efficiency recycling
[45:01] systems,
so we have we have at least one
[45:04] potentially more but but the the one
that's easy to think about it is the the
[45:10] newest one that that was built.
[45:14] Right, right on 301. The Eco wash, right.
[45:17] I think is what it's called.
[45:19] Or splash. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[45:21] Umm.
[45:23] That that is and you can look stuff up
online about that that is using all of
[45:26] the you know the the most high efficiency
kind of systems they have today.
[45:30] They're available and things like that,
and,
[45:33] but in in a water emergency where we have
eliminated vehicle washing at residences
[45:38] in in driveways and things like that.
[45:42] The high efficiency car wash having to do
a 10% reduction plan when we are there
[45:47] actually it in my view part of the
solution because you're you're having
[45:51] people go away from.
[45:54] Home washing and now they're doing it in
a way that consumes, you know,
[45:59] 7080% less water potentially,
but we need them to limit themselves
[46:04] again as a high volume user with a plan
to reduce by 10%.
[46:09] And I wonder if we what I really believe
is that, that,
[46:13] that technology and that service is
really offsetting more water than the
[46:18] individual reduction plan would indicate
and very likely they could see.
[46:23] A surge in water consumption as an
individual entity.
[46:30] But that but that shouldn't be likely
viewed as a bad thing because of what its
[46:35] offsetting potentially.
[46:39] And so that that's that's what my intent
there is is to recommend language that
[46:44] would allow for that.
And so so this would be an area where you
[46:48] know it may be a thing you know if you
look at it from that context.
[46:54] And and the draft language if it needed
to be modified further,
[46:57] even based on that I'm I'm definitely
open to it based on staff input.
[47:01] Yeah, that that makes great sense to me.
I think making a recognition in a high
[47:07] efficiencies car wash is not is.
[47:10] Is to make it clear that it doesn't
require the 10% or doesn't require a plan.
[47:17] Fundamentally that we can work that we
can.
[47:23] We can massage it accordingly to reflect
that.
[47:26] Great. Thank you.
[47:27] And then another area that I thought
would be really good to talk about with
[47:34] you is the.
[47:36] The Zoning Board of Appeals and.
[47:40] How that interplay is with what they do.
Their charter essentially based in code,
[47:48] is to handle zoning.
[47:53] Arbitration isn't the right word,
but but to consider zoning.
[47:58] Rule approvals and so this is.
[48:00] This is different in that we're not
asking them to review the zoning code in
[48:06] context of what's happening with a a
hardship request.
[48:10] We're asking them to look at the
administrative procedures that the town
[48:15] manager used in his determination that
they're asking for relief from.
[48:22] And is this written in a way,
or is their companions documentation that
[48:27] might be needed in order for them to
perform in that function?
[48:35] What Staffs and what staff's intent was
was that they would look at?
[48:39] They would look at the entire
administrative record based on what the
[48:43] the town manager's decision was,
but they're fundamentally going bad to.
[48:49] The standards that the town manager is is
looking at,
[48:53] so those are identified in section.
[48:57] M2B I, I-12 and three.
[49:02] Those are fundamentally the findings that
are being made.
[49:05] OK,
that was for the the board to just look
[49:08] at that there,
they shouldn't be looking at other stuff
[49:11] for a variance, it's not.
[49:12] I agree with it.
[49:13] Not applicable.
[49:14] And that was really the intent, OK,
of of what we wrote or we I wrote.
[49:19] I will tell you that I I remembered and I
have section L2.
[49:23] It should be M2, right? OK, that one. OK.
And then and then the the other thing
[49:28] related to that is you provided that
companion document about state water
[49:33] emergencies.
[49:34] And that that made me go, OK, so.
[49:38] The the our Zoning Board of Appeals and
and a water hardship is only an exception
[49:44] if it was granted to the town's ordinance
on water restrictions.
[49:49] It and it would have no ability to
supersede what what state mandates were
[49:55] put in place.
[49:56] And we should be really clear about that.
[49:57] That's correct. Yes. OK.
[49:59] Yes, that's correct.
[50:01] All right.
[50:04] The the other one that probably you know,
again I don't go through every single one
[50:09] of them,
but the other one I thought would be good
[50:12] to talk about though is.
[50:15] The term common sense.
[50:17] And so when I looked at that and and I
read it,
[50:19] I kept reading it over and over again,
and I'm going, OK.
[50:21] Where's the common sense part of this?
If thinking like I'm an applicant or
[50:25] somebody wanting to navigate this?
[50:28] And I like the wording and I,
and I think I understand the intent,
[50:33] but it it went from it's a common sense
approach right into here's the the fees
[50:39] and things that are happening that if you
don't comply, this is what it is.
[50:44] And so I think we.
[50:47] I believe the intent of the term common
sense I I I often use the term like like
[50:53] I I don't.
My personal view is I would like to not
[50:56] see the town be heavy-handed in in
anything.
[50:59] It's enforcing right where it's just my
way or the highway, right?
[51:04] Or I shouldn't say it that way it it?
[51:06] It shouldn't be.
[51:07] It shouldn't be like really.
[51:09] Yeah, it should. Yeah, it shouldn't.
[51:11] It shouldn't be like on first contact.
[51:13] It's like, wow.
[51:14] I got the you know,
the full force of this ordinance.
[51:18] So I think that.
[51:21] The language that I proposed in here
basically gives a a first notice.
[51:29] With 48 hours to resolve that notice with
no fine.
[51:33] And so to me,
that is the linkage to this is common
[51:36] sense or not being heavy-handed.
[51:38] This is this is, you know,
the town understanding that not every
[51:41] resident is gonna have having read every
new posted ordinance.
[51:46] You know that that comes out and and so
this is a way you know for, you know,
[51:51] attention to be brought to it and and
people can comply in a relatively easy
[51:56] way.
[51:56] But it's still timely,
so it accommodates the need.
[52:00] Just one quick suggestion where you have
suggested for the amendment I I would
[52:04] suggest taking out that first sentence
where it just says a common sense
[52:09] education first approach.
[52:11] Shall be taken to the enforcement of this
article.
[52:13] I would just take that out and just.
[52:15] Run into it and say for a first
observation, observe violation.
[52:20] The town challenges run into it.
[52:22] Just take common sense straight out of it,
because somebody could say, well,
[52:27] this doesn't sound like common sense to
me.
[52:29] It could be somebody else.
[52:31] Your common sense could be different from
mine, yeah.
[52:33] So I think taking that whole sentence out
and just running into what the violation
[52:38] triggers would be.
[52:40] And their infractions what they involve.
[52:43] Yeah, I agree with that.
[52:50] Because that that still retains the
element of. It's not.
[52:54] It doesn't hit you right away.
[52:56] It it it, it kind of eases you into it?
Yeah.
[53:00] I should huddle.
[53:01] Can you repeat what you your suggestion?
[53:04] My suggestion for the ZTE amended
language would be to delete the first
[53:09] sentence where it says a common sense
education first approach shall be taken
[53:14] in the enforcement of this article.
To delete that,
[53:18] just start the overall amendment with
first or a first observed violation and
[53:24] then Contin.
[53:32] And and then the.
I'll let you finish writing.
[53:35] I'm sorry, Mr. Dooley.
[53:38] This last one, I promise.
[53:39] So the last one just to say it out loud,
right is the.
[53:44] The plan for.
[53:50] The timeline for commercial corrective
plans,
[53:53] so it wasn't clear in the draft the
commercial,
[53:56] the the corrective plans for the large
volume users.
[53:59] I'm sorry. Yeah. So it it talks about.
[54:04] The in the draft,
it talks about the amount of hang on.
[54:08] I'll go right to it and read it.
[54:12] It doesn't have a clear deadline for when
that that reduction plan submission.
[54:18] Flows.
I took this one right out of the out of
[54:21] the state language.
[54:22] Yeah, but yeah, I.
But it's certainly fine to to.
[54:28] Provide some boundaries around that, sure.
[54:34] That Commission's direction.
[54:38] Somebody wants to submit a except for
water conservation plan. You know,
[54:43] within within,
I think within 30 days it's very
[54:45] reasonable.
[54:46] Yeah. OK.
[54:52] One little suggestion to that amendment,
if you don't mind, is replacing it.
[54:57] Sounds trivial, but yeah,
I used to be a journalist.
[55:01] Sorry,
taking if and removing if and putting
[55:05] when.
[55:07] When a designated large volume user fails
to meet their required water.
[55:19] Journalism.
[55:33] So I think.
[55:36] You know my, my, my personal view is,
is that I'm satisfied, Mr. Dooley,
[55:41] that if if we want to say or if if you
need a motion,
[55:45] let us know that that we would use these
recommendations as provided with the
[55:51] notes that we know you took here and.
[55:54] You have this meeting to review and so
that to me I think would allow us to stay
[55:59] on track with the timeline that you gave
us.
[56:02] Which I think is great because if we if
we have a open, excuse me,
[56:06] if we have a public meeting on this
amendment in October that would still
[56:12] allow it to go to the Council.
I I assume the the idea is,
[56:16] is to probably get this in place.
[56:18] By the end of the year. Oh, absolutely.
[56:22] I would.
[56:23] I'd want to communicate with the town
manager.
[56:26] I think it would be his intent to bring
it to the Council as soon as possible.
[56:30] Possibly.
[56:31] Later on October. Great. OK.
[56:36] We we I think we we're on the same page.
We wanna bring this forward and yeah and
[56:40] really kind of finish finish this good
work that we've been doing great.
[56:48] Thank you, Councilman Bloomberg.
[56:50] Are there any additional thoughts,
comments, questions, Commissioner Miller?
[56:55] As yeah, well, first,
I'm not sure if it was mentioned.
[57:01] So we're very sort of specified on
prescription.
[57:09] Oh,
I'm trying to kind of reconcile the the
[57:11] common sense and the partnership.
I know we just removed that word,
[57:16] but what would an example of cure?
[57:18] Be for the 4048 hours for like an
individual or an entity.
[57:25] Umm.
[57:26] What might might occur or response,
or a sure mitigation?
[57:31] Yeah. So,
so the way I read it is if code
[57:34] enforcement was going through a
neighborhood that where an odd number was
[57:39] watering on an even number at a
residential house,
[57:43] the code enforcement officer could stop
and leave a notice.
[57:47] A first notice that they have 48 hours to.
[57:52] Reconcile setting up their sprinkler.
[57:53] So it's not going on the odd days or the
off days?
[57:57] From from where it's supposed to be that
then that notice would have been served
[58:02] if the if now three days later code
enforcement goes by the same house to
[58:06] check the sprinklers are going off on the
incorrect day, then there's your there.
[58:12] That that's where the the next.
[58:14] Notice starts the fines.
[58:15] That's the the cure period is fixing it
before you comes back.
[58:19] Yeah, that makes sense.
[58:21] I was trying to think like you're not
going to be.
[58:24] That you're going to stop washing your
car.
[58:27] And you won't be washing your car, but.
[58:30] You would cure by not washing the car,
but potentially three days a later.
[58:33] You're washing it again.
[58:34] But that first violation, you got things?
[58:36] So yeah,
I I think in that example the first time
[58:39] during a single event, water emergency,
whatever the duration of time is if that
[58:44] if that water alert is declared and and
you and at the beginning of it you get a
[58:49] notice because code enforcement went by
and.
[58:52] Saw you washing your car in your driveway.
You get the notice.
[58:54] If two months later,
we're still in that declared water
[58:58] emergency code enforcement goes by and
you're washing your car again,
[59:02] that's not another first notice.
[59:04] You're still in the same declared
emergency. I would assume that that would,
[59:08] that would incur the fine.
[59:11] Yeah.
How might the common sense partnership
[59:14] relationship?
[59:17] Come into factor.
[59:17] If that's the case, we're like, yeah,
I I interpret common sense to mean not be
[59:23] heavy-handed.
And I think with with what Commissioner
[59:27] Hudnall suggested is remove that,
but keep the feature of not being
[59:32] heavy-handed,
heavy hand heavy-handed in in my
[59:35] terminology means you're getting.
[59:37] Warnings, right?
[59:38] Like there's a lot of code that doesn't
do that in other places, so.
[59:43] That that is.
I assume what what I I took it to mean
[59:47] from from what the the subcommittee did
and I agree with it too frankly.
[59:51] Yeah, I think that that,
Commissioner Miller that.
[59:57] By removing that first line it it
provides more certainty and consistency
[1:00:03] in terms of what that intent was in terms
of common sense.
[1:00:07] So I think that sets us up for a much
more.
[1:00:12] Usable.
[1:00:13] Ordinance for this for this section,
because we have we we know what the
[1:00:18] standards are gonna be and what to expect
or what the an owner might expect.
[1:00:23] If there's a code enforcement violation,
OK, it's laid out very, very simply.
[1:00:28] Yeah,
I think the potential surge of the car
[1:00:32] wash, that was a point that I didn't.
[1:00:37] Think of and.
I think that's a a great point.
[1:00:39] Like they would have more customers and
what would they like?
[1:00:42] I'm trying to run through that scenario.
[1:00:43] Would they like if it's automated?
[1:00:46] Completely hands off. Are they stopping?
[1:00:49] And are they stopping cars from going
through and say we are cutting off?
[1:00:52] We're like, you know,
10 cars an hour or something.
[1:00:54] They would have to.
[1:00:55] It's on them to figure it out.
[1:00:57] That that's what I assumed.
[1:00:58] I assumed if if I have if I'm have have a
a a code that tells me I or you know a
[1:01:03] local ordinance that tells me I have to
lower by 10%.
[1:01:06] I'm I'm gonna have to have 10% fewer cars
go through than I did the.
[1:01:10] Last month,
with anything else that you need to be
[1:01:13] compliant with, yeah. Fundamentally,
it's fundamentally if if if I was trying
[1:01:17] to enforce this,
I would look to the to the owner to
[1:01:20] identify how they want to mitigate it.
[1:01:23] I don't think staff really cares as long
as we're getting the.
[1:01:26] 10% reduction plan.
[1:01:28] Yeah,
and they can decide where how to run
[1:01:31] their business rather than trying to
dictate something that I have no idea
[1:01:36] what I'm talking about.
[1:01:37] And we've left the discretion out.
[1:01:40] I mean,
there's there's pathways to for that.
[1:01:43] Common sense, yeah.
[1:01:44] Well, yeah. So to me though,
if if they have right now if that
[1:01:48] business has 100 cars a day that come
through.
[1:01:51] When you tell a town with 11,
000 residents,
[1:01:54] you can't wash your car in your driveway.
[1:01:57] They could triple or quadruple their
business, right?
[1:02:01] And so there's no way they're going to
reduce by 10% the volume of use in the
[1:02:06] totality of their bill.
[1:02:09] So I I don't know how we but but the
offset in that number of people if they
[1:02:14] were gonna wash their car in their
driveway.
[1:02:17] But now they're gonna do it here with 80%
less water.
[1:02:22] The the overall offset benefit to the
town is achieved by way more than 10%.
[1:02:29] So it it that that's why I think we have
to accommodate that in this in this
[1:02:34] because all we're doing is basically
hurting a local business and telling them
[1:02:39] to go wash their car just outside the
town.
[1:02:42] And I don't think that's.
[1:02:43] I mean, that's not what we want to do.
[1:02:45] You know if if if it were I I think it's
just sort of the easiest thing to do
[1:02:50] would just go.
[1:02:51] They're part of the solution.
[1:02:53] There that is not part of the problem.
[1:02:56] And and we're actually making the problem
worse,
[1:02:59] or other problems worse by by not
acknowledging that if we still wanted to
[1:03:04] see a 10% reduction in water use,
maybe that's an example of a single use
[1:03:09] case,
large volume user where you say your per
[1:03:12] vehicle water plan.
[1:03:14] Needs to lower by 10%.
[1:03:17] I don't know the technology well enough
to know if they can tune it that way.
[1:03:22] Maybe they can, but.
[1:03:25] And that's why I think it's beneficial to
let down the in terms of how they want to
[1:03:31] achieve that. But it's but but right now.
But but if you're going to do it at at at
[1:03:36] 10% of their total volume,
I say it's unachievable. We would have.
[1:03:40] To we would have to say in code that
there's a special exception for that type
[1:03:46] of business where it's per unit water
volume, not per.
[1:03:50] Business entity.
[1:03:51] You see what I'm saying?
[1:03:52] Yeah, right. Right.
[1:03:55] Yeah.
And I I don't know anything about car
[1:03:58] wash to know what that what that volume
could be reduced to and still be able to
[1:04:04] link cars.
[1:04:05] Yeah.
So my my assumption is and I I did a
[1:04:07] little a little bit of reading on the
Internet.
[1:04:09] So you know I'm no,
I'm no car wash engineer, but the the.
[1:04:16] Not since I was a teenager.
[1:04:17] But the the what?
[1:04:19] What I understand is like those things I
believe are optimized for the lowest
[1:04:24] possible water usage they can.
[1:04:26] Have and and achieve a result that that
that that cleans the vehicle that does
[1:04:30] the things that they say they're gonna do
when you when you buy a car wash for them.
[1:04:35] Yes, yes.
[1:04:36] And so when in in that example,
I think probably the opportunities for
[1:04:40] them to optimize further,
they're already doing that to to to
[1:04:44] maximize their their their business
opportunities.
[1:04:48] So because they're buying municipal water,
just like we are.
[1:04:52] At our homes, right and so.
[1:04:55] I'm of the mind that they.
[1:04:57] There's probably just should just be an
exception for that business type in some
[1:05:03] way,
and that's what I have on my notes is OK
[1:05:06] is to.
[1:05:08] That if it's if it's a.
[1:05:11] If it's a high volume, excuse me.
It's a high efficiency.
[1:05:15] High efficiency. Yeah. Thank you.
[1:05:17] Car wash they can demonstrate document
that it is that they're exempt from from
[1:05:23] that provision.
[1:05:24] Yeah,
so that separates them out because I
[1:05:25] agree that makes that makes all the sense
in the world.
[1:05:28] And I agree that just from a purely from
a, from an economic standpoint,
[1:05:33] they're probably not going to want to use
more water than they have to. Yeah, yeah.
[1:05:41] So I have a couple of concerns.
[1:05:46] Maybe not.
Maybe not so much concerns with thoughts.
[1:05:49] The the first thought I have as with the
apfoi think.
[1:05:54] This part,
and because it is a part of the APFO,
[1:05:58] needs to be dynamic. We're we're kind of.
[1:06:04] Doing this.
[1:06:07] Blindly, I think we, you know,
there's a lot of effort and expertise
[1:06:11] that's gone into this, but I think.
[1:06:15] There's also a lot of ambiguity in some
of the language.
[1:06:20] I'm concerned about the whole
self-compliance thing,
[1:06:23] and maybe that's not what we're setting
up, but I think pretty much we are.
[1:06:28] And I'm also concerned about potentially
creating a monopoly for the car wash we
[1:06:34] have.
[1:06:36] One new car wash in the town that could
that could probably take on this.
[1:06:44] Recycling and all of that I'm concerned
about creating monopoly, or,
[1:06:49] as Councilman Guttenberg alluded to,
we don't want people to go outside of the
[1:06:54] town.
But certainly if the if the wait is long.
[1:06:59] I'm not gonna sit in that line.
[1:07:00] Gas prices are high,
so I'm gonna go somewhere else where
[1:07:04] there isn't this.
[1:07:05] So I'm concerned there are several things
that I'm concerned about,
[1:07:10] not to the degree where I say don't let's
move forward,
[1:07:13] but I think there's still a lot of things
that need to be flushed out.
[1:07:18] Can they be flushed out by October 6?
[1:07:21] Maybe, maybe not. But I think also having.
[1:07:24] A public hearing.
[1:07:27] May help flush some of these things out.
[1:07:30] So that's just my two cents and and I'll
pause right there.
[1:07:35] And I ask about the self compliance.
[1:07:37] What part is that?
I'd like to talk about that.
[1:07:40] Well, even homeowners, if if residential,
residential or business,
[1:07:44] I mean code enforcement can only be so
many places.
[1:07:49] At a.
[1:07:50] At a time and that will put a strain on
our resources.
[1:07:51] So we're assuming a lot the car wash is
going to do the right thing.
[1:07:56] We're assuming everybody's going to do
the right thing.
[1:07:59] And some will and some won't.
[1:08:03] How you know that?
[1:08:04] There's no we don't have the.
When I say we the town does not have the
[1:08:09] bandwidth to police it all.
[1:08:11] I'm not.
[1:08:11] And I'm not sure that's a a good use of
resources either.
[1:08:17] So that's so then you're expecting people
to do the right thing?
[1:08:23] My my my thought is is on the on the on
the commercial entities.
[1:08:29] They if they're classified as a a large
volume user,
[1:08:33] they they they are known to the town and
the town manager believes that there's
[1:08:39] not that many of them,
that there are a number of them.
[1:08:43] But if if staff could not handle
interacting with the number of.
[1:08:51] Plans that they would have to receive.
[1:08:53] Then I don't think they would have
suggested, isn't that?
[1:08:55] Is that right?
[1:08:56] I think that's probably fair statement.
OK.
[1:08:59] I mean, you know,
it's any any new ordinance that we've had
[1:09:02] this similar discussions before?
[1:09:05] Ordinances are living,
breathing documents,
[1:09:08] and if something's not working or it's
problematic,
[1:09:11] we're going to bring it back to you and
and ultimately to the Council to amend it
[1:09:16] so that it it is so it doesn't work the
way we want it to.
[1:09:22] It's it's difficult.
[1:09:24] It it's really,
really difficult to write an ordinance.
[1:09:28] You you to capture 100% of everything you
want it to be.
[1:09:32] You generally the kind of the rule of
thumb is you try to capture.
[1:09:38] 80 to 8080 percent,
85% of what you expect will happen,
[1:09:42] and to have some reasonable suggestions
in the ordinance and how you sort of deal
[1:09:48] with some of the Gray area in there but
you.
[1:09:52] You try to create an ordinance that
effectively through collective reasoning.
[1:09:59] You think has will work,
and if there's adjustments to it,
[1:10:03] no harm no foul.
[1:10:04] We just address it and we address it on a
timely matter.
[1:10:10] Can I ask?
Did did the subcommittee or or in your
[1:10:14] experience, Commissioner? Well did,
did you discuss residential?
[1:10:20] Issues related to.
[1:10:22] To you know,
self compliance and that kind of stuff
[1:10:24] was that part of the discussion?
[1:10:26] I believe we did touch on that and the
one thing that I think we kind of talked
[1:10:32] about relating to that was I think for a
lot of ordinances we kind of rely on
[1:10:38] self-compliance, right?
[1:10:40] We kind of rely on people to do the right
thing and if it becomes an issue then.
[1:10:47] Code enforcement gets involved or you
know, so I think.
[1:10:50] The intention behind that I don't.
[1:10:53] I don't know how to phrase this other
than kind of say it's it's understood
[1:10:58] that it's not going to be enforceable to
every single infraction. You know,
[1:11:04] it's just it's not possible.
[1:11:06] It's not possible for code enforcement to
get to literally all of you know it.
[1:11:11] So I I think it just kind of goes hand in
hand with the nature of.
[1:11:15] Of what it is, if that makes sense.
[1:11:18] It does.
[1:11:19] It does to me in in the following way.
I the what what I imagine the way this
[1:11:24] would work and and I I don't want to
speak for the town manager right,
[1:11:29] but just my own imagination of how this
this plays out is and and and and I.
[1:11:34] Base this on the way this is written
right?
[1:11:37] So the town manager is overseeing like
how we get things. Keep keep it under.
[1:11:43] The maximum,
and so he's largely going towards the
[1:11:46] high volume users.
[1:11:49] First,
because that's where if you're going to
[1:11:52] expend staff hours,
that's where you're going to get the most
[1:11:55] result for the effort that you put into
it.
[1:11:59] Now if that doesn't achieve the full
result and there's still concern the town
[1:12:04] manager has the ability operationally,
just like he can have discussions with
[1:12:09] the Police Department based on crime
reports,
[1:12:12] he can have discussions with code
enforcement and say, look,
[1:12:17] if you were going to spend your, your.
[1:12:19] Day today on business signage issues.
[1:12:21] Forget about it for the next month.
I want you to focus on water.
[1:12:26] Outdoor water usage with with sprinklers
and so and I think in that way it's not a
[1:12:31] because I think the thing people worry
about when we talk about residential
[1:12:35] compliance is that we're like asking
people to call in their neighbors and
[1:12:39] have that kind of stuff. And I.
[1:12:41] Think that's back to the common sense
kind of piece of this or that not being
[1:12:45] heavy-handed is that is that?
[1:12:48] The town.
[1:12:49] Will operationally manage this and focus
the resources that they have in a way
[1:12:54] that makes sense for the whatever state
we're in.
[1:12:57] I also do think that.
[1:13:02] People,
when you're in in a water emergency and
[1:13:06] when those things are noticed,
people want to help out with that.
[1:13:10] You know where where we are all in this
together.
[1:13:13] And I know you know when we get when we
get notices.
[1:13:15] I've lived other places where where you
you do see this happen sometimes.
[1:13:19] And and I and I think people realize it
and they don't.
[1:13:22] They don't just go well,
what are they going to do?
[1:13:24] I'm just going to go wash my car anyway.
[1:13:26] I mean,
I think mostly people are are trying to
[1:13:28] like work together on these kinds of
things.
[1:13:30] And and they're certainly they agree with
that and there's certainly an educational
[1:13:34] component too.
[1:13:35] So that if we if we have these alerts,
there's a ways of of getting the word out
[1:13:41] through you know,
through our town newsletter website.
[1:13:46] Educational announcements,
that sort of thing.
[1:13:50] Yeah, go ahead.
[1:13:53] Again, we're we're trying to write this.
[1:13:55] We're we're writing this to sort of as
much as possible,
[1:13:59] align ourselves with with the state's
temperament in terms of the.
[1:14:04] In terms of of what the what they have
for water conservation work and so you'll
[1:14:10] read that the state language is not it's
it's not really.
[1:14:17] I don't think it's very handed.
[1:14:19] It doesn't say that we're going to come
get you and we're, you know,
[1:14:23] we're going to put cameras on everyone's
property to make sure that they're not
[1:14:27] using more water than they have to.
[1:14:30] There's there's a certain amount of,
you know, as Councilman Guttenberg said,
[1:14:34] there's there's a.
[1:14:36] You know, it's a common.
[1:14:38] It's a common community effort to
preserve resources and I think education
[1:14:44] becomes a huge part of that.
[1:14:48] When you have a,
when you have a draught alert.
[1:14:50] I've lived in.
[1:14:54] Where I used to live,
droughts were very common and there is a
[1:14:57] result we were all I was always getting
education material to do,
[1:15:01] simple little things that could be done
to help save water.
[1:15:05] Because it's important for people to know
that they save a little bit of water just
[1:15:09] themselves.
[1:15:09] It's probably insignificant,
but when you start adding that up or the
[1:15:13] course,
the entire community makes a huge
[1:15:16] difference.
And I think that's really kind of the
[1:15:19] message that that this ordinance is
intending to try to address is do your
[1:15:23] part.
[1:15:26] I don't think.
[1:15:27] I don't think that we'd be able to excuse
me, police, everyone.
[1:15:31] I think that you know self compliance,
it is going to be a hard thing to do.
[1:15:36] I know the last time we had a meeting,
Commissioner Ford,
[1:15:39] I think it was like 2 meetings ago.
Commissioner Ford mentioned something
[1:15:43] about having like a little dial or
something on the website that denoted
[1:15:48] kind of where we were with regards to our
water.
[1:15:50] Do you remember that?
[1:15:52] Not off the top of my head.
[1:15:54] But I believe he said. He said that.
[1:15:55] Yeah, he.
[1:15:56] I know, he said.
[1:15:57] I remember him saying that and my point
for saying that is because.
[1:16:03] It gets more real when someone has
something in front of them that's
[1:16:07] tangible.
You know something that they can see it
[1:16:10] it right now, you know,
everything is very abstract, you know.
[1:16:14] And so it's going to take time.
Everything that we're trying to put in
[1:16:19] place, these are.
[1:16:20] You know things that is not just our town,
but also state level.
[1:16:23] So we're trying to get these put into
place,
[1:16:26] but self-compliance is going to be an
issue and you know,
[1:16:29] I'm pretty sure we're all aware, yeah.
[1:16:32] This this meeting was super helpful for
me, missing the last one.
[1:16:37] We're putting up.
[1:16:38] I mean,
correct me if the analogy is wrong,
[1:16:40] but it's a speed limit sign, right?
[1:16:42] Not everyone's going to.
[1:16:43] Some people are going to speed,
but just having the sign is going to
[1:16:46] reduce it.
[1:16:46] Not everyone's going to get caught,
but that's just how I see it,
[1:16:50] and it's a is that.
[1:16:52] A great way to characterize it or not.
[1:16:55] Well, I think it's, yeah,
it's it becomes like I was saying earlier,
[1:17:00] it's it's an educational thing, OK,
to make people aware and what you're
[1:17:04] describing that the the Commissioner for
had had said it makes sense to me and I
[1:17:09] think that's, you know,
there's there's lots of.
[1:17:12] Different ways to educate the community
and I think that becomes another another
[1:17:18] option to add to collective.
[1:17:21] Educating the community where we're at.
[1:17:25] Don't forget those speed cameras,
Commissioner. Golf.
[1:17:30] Yeah. Commissioner Miller, Mr.
Dooley wouldn't give you give you,
[1:17:33] give you the the naked compliment,
but I'll say it was a great analogy
[1:17:37] because that's the only way it makes
sense.
[1:17:40] I like it.
[1:17:40] Yeah, that was a great one.
[1:17:40] Specific, but we're.
[1:17:45] So my we're supporting the partnership of
the community.
[1:17:50] I I didn't have any other comments except
for if we're kind of finished with the
[1:17:55] specifics you mentioned.
[1:17:57] So the plan could potentially be have a
public hearing on October 6th and then
[1:18:04] you were looking to push sometime late in
October.
[1:18:08] Was there an intermediate point where the
Commission?
[1:18:14] Whether or not there is significant
public comments or adjustments,
[1:18:19] would we then need to revisit or is it
possible to have just a public comment
[1:18:24] and then?
[1:18:26] Push. There's a number six.
[1:18:28] Yep,
using the word push is probably more than
[1:18:31] I'm trying to describe.
[1:18:33] Sure. We're just trying.
[1:18:34] Just trying to efficiently process it
through the town.
[1:18:37] The Commission can hold this as long as
it wants to,
[1:18:40] and we can have a public hearing if we
see that there's.
[1:18:44] We get a lot of comments on it or
suggestions.
[1:18:46] Hey, maybe we wanna hold back on it.
[1:18:48] Maybe we wanna continue the public
hearing, do some more refinement.
[1:18:52] We wanna, you know,
staff and the Commission wants to make
[1:18:55] sure that we have an ordinance that's
right for that's a good fit for the
[1:18:59] community.
[1:19:00] So there's no we don't have to rush
anything.
[1:19:02] I'm just simply suggesting that if we
feel that we've, we've the Commission,
[1:19:08] feels that that.
[1:19:10] The draft ordinance has a eventually.
[1:19:14] Becomes adopted. Is is adequate?
[1:19:17] There's we can move it forward.
Here's a path.
[1:19:20] Do that,
but it doesn't by any stretch of
[1:19:23] imagination means that you have to hold a
public hearing on October six,
[1:19:27] and you have to make a decision at that
time.
[1:19:29] Let's see what happens.
[1:19:31] I'm going to get comments back and we
feel that we can't.
[1:19:36] If there's more work to be done,
then that's kind of an over process.
[1:19:45] Are there any additional?
[1:19:48] Comments. I have some.
[1:19:51] I feel like I'm going to be on the island
by myself.
[1:19:54] I I think in light of what everybody said
and I respect what everybody said and I
[1:19:59] think there were some valid points.
[1:20:02] I just.
[1:20:03] I am grappling with this whole notion of,
oh, this is educational.
[1:20:08] Well, let's do apsa.
[1:20:09] I mean, we don't need an ordinance.
[1:20:11] For education, if it's intended to be.
[1:20:16] A.
[1:20:17] A code that we will ensure enforce.
Then I think we need to make sure that
[1:20:22] that is what it is.
[1:20:26] This language around.
[1:20:29] Common sense and.
[1:20:32] And things like that.
[1:20:34] That is so ambiguous and and I think we
all agree with that.
[1:20:39] I'm just concerned about how we're.
[1:20:46] How we're framing this?
[1:20:50] Educating folks about this ordinance is
important.
[1:20:56] I think that happens from my perspective.
Once you have the ordinance before it
[1:21:02] goes into effect,
you do start to educate the community.
[1:21:06] This is coming on board.
[1:21:07] This is what the expectation is.
[1:21:09] Here's how you play a role in ensuring
that this water conservation ordinance is.
[1:21:20] Appropriately applied.
[1:21:23] That is where I see the education at.
[1:21:25] Once the ordinance goes into effect,
it ceases to be education.
[1:21:29] It goes to enforcement,
and it's about ensuring that the
[1:21:33] ordinance is doing what it's intended to
do.
[1:21:37] That that's the the background I come
from.
[1:21:39] That's the perspective that I've I've I
have.
[1:21:46] Just leave it at that.
[1:21:48] I.
[1:21:48] I actually really agree with what you
just said.
[1:21:51] I.
[1:21:51] I mean the, the, the,
the thing that I think will happen it
[1:21:56] like I think our scope on the Planning
Commission is focused on the the zoning
[1:22:02] text amendment right and that is not a
place where you build a program for
[1:22:07] education and do the things that you.
[1:22:10] Talking about and and I think is that.
[1:22:14] Like, where can we scratch that?
[1:22:16] Part of this itch messed their Dooley
like is is that.
[1:22:19] Is that something that staff can bring
along with this to the Council?
[1:22:23] Because I can.
[1:22:24] I I already know that there are members
of the Community who who feel that that
[1:22:30] the, the, the level of of.
[1:22:34] Water conservation that is contained in
this is not even close to what they think
[1:22:39] we should be doing as a town.
I think that's what Commissioner Banks is
[1:22:44] saying.
[1:22:45] Is that OK?
[1:22:46] So what are we doing in the meantime to
educate and and and and get get folks
[1:22:52] socialized with a new way of thinking
about our water just in general?
[1:22:58] Mr. Dooley, thank you. And and. Oh,
I'm sorry. And and just to add to that.
[1:23:03] Thank you, Councilman Gutenberg,
for to add to that and I think I
[1:23:07] mentioned this a meeting so ago.
[1:23:10] This almost may seem punitive to people.
People are aware.
[1:23:15] Of the town's water situation,
and now we're putting a lot of onus on on
[1:23:22] residents, on taxpayers.
[1:23:25] You know, how do we?
[1:23:27] How do we try to offset that impression?
[1:23:30] Because I'm a taxpayer,
I'm a resident and it does feel punitive.
[1:23:34] You.
You're telling me when I can wash my car?
[1:23:37] You're telling me when I can water my
lawn?
[1:23:41] Is this because the town didn't manage it
water properly?
[1:23:44] I think that's going to be the question a
lot of people have.
[1:23:48] So I think we do need to do.
[1:23:51] Some advanced separate and apart from the
public hearing.
[1:23:55] Because we don't get a lot of people at
the public hearing,
[1:23:58] so there needs to be some education,
serious education.
[1:24:03] Communication.
[1:24:05] With the residents prior to this going
into effect,
[1:24:08] it would be my recommendation would be my
suggestion.
[1:24:12] Because this one in particular hits
individuals directly,
[1:24:17] I'd like to say one thing before you
respond. I I I know I can feel it.
[1:24:24] We are about to get into the cooler
months.
[1:24:28] October.
We're supposed to have a public hearing
[1:24:32] and we probably won't be really
solidifying this maybe until November ish.
[1:24:39] So are the water usage of the town will
be down OK?
[1:24:47] Nobody's gonna be out watering their
lawns.
[1:24:49] Nobody will be washing their cars,
so the educational aspect for this seems
[1:24:53] to me like you'd be able to get it
through for the winter time just in time
[1:24:57] for the spring.
[1:25:00] Does that sound kind of.
[1:25:04] Like an outlook?
[1:25:07] I guess or an educational pathway.
[1:25:14] I'm thinking about in terms of how to
communicate with the public beyond the
[1:25:19] public hearing process.
[1:25:23] Probably the best suggestion that I have,
at least as I'm standing here or thinking
[1:25:28] about at this moment,
is that we have an opportunity to to use
[1:25:32] our our Community newsletter that goes
out quarterly that could be used.
[1:25:37] I can trap something up to basically say,
you know that what the what the what the
[1:25:41] Planning Commission, the town is doing.
[1:25:45] Provide provide a reference to to this
ordinance and what we're doing here to
[1:25:50] allow people to.
[1:25:52] Understand.
[1:25:53] What what's being proposed?
[1:25:56] I the the and and I can do that this week
'cause that can cause the it'll time very
[1:26:01] well because the articles are due at the
end of the week.
[1:26:04] I don't know when it gets.
[1:26:05] I can't see her and tell you when it gets
published though.
[1:26:08] I don't.
[1:26:08] I don't know that that part of it.
[1:26:11] I don't know if if if it's the advice of
the Commission to continue this until a
[1:26:18] month after the newsletter goes out.
[1:26:22] And then hold your public hearing so
people have the opportunity to digest it
[1:26:27] or look at it.
[1:26:27] Digest it,
and then they're ready for a public
[1:26:30] hearing.
[1:26:32] That might be an option.
[1:26:34] If you're, if you want to pursue that,
like I said,
[1:26:38] there's no specific time that it has to
be in front of the Council.
[1:26:44] And I think the goal of this was really
to make this an ordinance that that the
[1:26:49] Commission feels comfortable with to
promote to the.
[1:26:52] To the town council now,
if we don't get any public comments,
[1:26:56] we get very few.
[1:26:59] Then you know it is what it is,
and but there might be some good comments
[1:27:02] that come back from that.
[1:27:03] So that might be an option that that
addresses your concerns for getting more
[1:27:08] opportunity for public feedback awareness,
because that's going to go out to a whole
[1:27:13] lot more people.
[1:27:16] So that they're aware of it.
[1:27:21] Yeah, it was. No, go ahead.
[1:27:25] Yeah, I was gonna say.
[1:27:26] I think that you know,
you also stated a really important thing
[1:27:31] chair banks about.
[1:27:35] How we got to where we are and I think
this is, you know, when Mr.
[1:27:39] Dooley put up sort of like this series of
three things that are trying to be done
[1:27:45] here.
This is part of a bigger area but but the
[1:27:48] apfo.
[1:27:50] A big.
[1:27:50] Part of the driver of that for me is
exactly the scenario that you described,
[1:27:57] which is.
[1:28:00] That the town has made commitments to
growth through the Planning Commission
[1:28:05] and and and through the Council to
development that has outpaced our ability
[1:28:11] to issue permits and that that is a
problem and and that and and I agree with
[1:28:17] exactly the sentiment you said.
[1:28:19] And I think that I think it's good you
said it out loud like that because you
[1:28:24] know it does have to be acknowledged.
[1:28:26] I think the way we acknowledged it though,
in in in current time is is the APFO is
[1:28:34] intended to make the capacities visible
to the public,
[1:28:39] to staff and to policy makers,
and it introduces A level of
[1:28:44] accountability that as we dig out of this.
[1:28:48] Will keep us on a better path going
forward.
[1:28:51] So I I do think that's there.
[1:28:54] The the other piece I I that I still I'm
still not sure how to do it from the
[1:28:59] Planning Commission.
[1:29:00] I'm wondering if the the education piece
and and the piece the public awareness
[1:29:07] piece, I'm wondering if.
[1:29:10] You know, and I'm.
I'm just thinking out loud here in, in,
[1:29:13] in some ways.
[1:29:13] But like if the if another Commissioner
committee could take that on.
[1:29:18] Like the the upcoming Sustainability
Committee or or or another area of of
[1:29:23] governance oversight is maybe more
appropriate than what?
[1:29:27] What it's hard for us I think here to get
outside of zoning text amendments, right.
[1:29:33] So.
And I think as a matter of policy is what
[1:29:36] we're talking.
[1:29:37] About.
[1:29:39] Related to education and things kind of
gets outside of it.
[1:29:42] Or or maybe I'm assuming that wrong.
Is it appropriate or is it ever done that
[1:29:45] way in code?
[1:29:46] I haven't really looked into that.
[1:29:47] In from from the standpoint of what we're
doing?
[1:29:52] Is there a communications team in the
town of Laplata?
[1:29:57] Is there we do have our our Pio.
[1:30:02] With that could certainly be made aware
of it,
[1:30:05] to again to advertise that the you know
what what we're doing.
[1:30:10] The thing the the only thing I would
suggest is this is a great conversation
[1:30:13] to have because we want being obviously
transparent to the Community.
[1:30:18] The the one thing though,
back your mind to to remember is that
[1:30:24] it's it's.
[1:30:27] It's becomes a very slippery slope that
if we,
[1:30:31] if we do more outreach for for some
ordinances than others,
[1:30:35] that somebody's gonna say is gonna cry
foul because we didn't follow the same
[1:30:41] process that we did before.
[1:30:43] And so that that becomes just something
to to lay in the calculus and your
[1:30:47] thoughts.
[1:30:52] Yeah, yeah, that, that,
that may be a problem.
[1:30:56] But I was thinking that it's easy to
create AQR code.
[1:31:02] You you put Flyers in the library with a
QR code that links to the ordinance.
[1:31:06] People can read it.
[1:31:07] You, you we have a website.
[1:31:09] Yeah, we put it on the website.
[1:31:11] We have a new billing system.
I think that has a capability of of doing
[1:31:15] some.
[1:31:15] Yeah,
you can add the ordinance to a QR code.
[1:31:17] It costs you nothing.
[1:31:18] You can randomly create a QR code.
[1:31:20] People could.
[1:31:21] These are cameras and open it up,
or you put a link or hard link for people
[1:31:26] who are not as.
[1:31:28] IPhone savvy as others to use the camera.
[1:31:31] I mean and and I understand your point
about, you know.
[1:31:36] Being selective.
[1:31:40] Advertising. But I I just think this one.
[1:31:45] May may hit people.
[1:31:48] More than others, but we have.
[1:31:51] We have sufficiently beat that proverbial
horse, so I will.
[1:31:56] I will stand down on that.
[1:31:59] Let me let me go back around one more
time. Any final comments on that?
[1:32:04] Before we move forward.
[1:32:09] OK, chair. If it's,
if I may and not if I can beat the horse
[1:32:12] one more time.
[1:32:14] Before you actually walk away from it.
[1:32:17] So I'll I'll address with the with the
town manager about at least nothing else
[1:32:22] to make the public aware that as part of
the town announcements we're working on
[1:32:28] this on this ordinance.
[1:32:31] So if they have questions or whatever.
[1:32:33] They can engage without specifically
trying to solicit feedback in that forum.
[1:32:40] Yeah, that sounds good.
Until it balances a little bit.
[1:32:43] So that we're not being selectively
advertising certain words is more than
[1:32:48] others. OK, that sounds good.
[1:32:52] So let's move to the recommendation.
[1:32:57] Of the planning staff.
[1:33:01] Is there a motion to?
[1:33:05] Adopt A recommendation that.
[1:33:09] If we're generally satisfied that we hold
the public hearing October 6th.
[1:33:15] Is there a motion on that or is there a
suggestion that?
[1:33:21] We do October 6th with additional
comments and and caveats.
[1:33:29] Madam Chair,
I'll I'll make a motion that we ask town
[1:33:32] staff to use the feedback they've
received tonight,
[1:33:36] both in writing and and orally through
through the content of this meeting,
[1:33:40] to to make to the best of their judgment,
the intended updates that that the
[1:33:45] Commission has given.
[1:33:46] Them and that that we proceed to the the
public meeting the public hearing.
[1:33:54] Next, next month.
[1:33:57] And I'll leave the motion there.
[1:33:59] There.
[1:34:00] Yeah.
[1:34:03] I will and just a just a.
[1:34:06] Pull that string a little bit more the
well, I think though,
[1:34:09] with the motion on the table,
I think we have to like close the motion
[1:34:12] out and then we can do that.
[1:34:15] If there's a second, I will second that.
[1:34:28] Yes.
[1:34:32] Commissioner, will, yes.
[1:34:36] Mr. hudno? Yes.
[1:34:39] Councilman gutenberg? Yes.
[1:34:44] I'm a yes.
[1:34:48] But with the that we retain the ability
to.
[1:34:56] Further discuss and potentially have
another like we we still retain that
[1:35:00] option.
[1:35:00] Yes,
I I think when we October 6 won't be the
[1:35:03] end all the right.
[1:35:04] Yeah, right.
[1:35:05] The the the outcome of that meeting is we
can sit here and say,
[1:35:09] based on the amount of feedback we get,
we wanna keep the public meeting open,
[1:35:13] the public record open right or the the
the. Yeah, the public record.
[1:35:18] The public hearing.
[1:35:19] The public hearing, yes.
[1:35:20] Gotta use the right word so the public
hearings could stay open and we could ask
[1:35:24] it to come back again and again.
[1:35:25] We could do it until we are ready as a as
a group to forward a a final
[1:35:30] recommendation to the Council and I think,
I think what Commissioner Hudnell said is
[1:35:36] right.
[1:35:38] From a weather standpoint,
we're probably not under any specific
[1:35:43] pressure operationally to to do that.
[1:35:46] I think there's other strategy things
that would maybe make this.
[1:35:49] You know better.
[1:35:50] Just in just a, you know,
I'm sure staff wants to, you know,
[1:35:53] the plates getting loaded up.
[1:35:54] I'm sure with with stuff all the time,
so yeah.
[1:35:59] So what?
[1:35:59] I what I failed to include in the as part
of the recommendation is that we adopt
[1:36:06] your comments.
[1:36:08] Councilman goodenburg.
[1:36:09] Yeah,
I I feel like the motion the way it was
[1:36:11] presented and what we voted on was
inclusive of that.
[1:36:14] And I I think staff understands, yeah.
[1:36:17] How's traffic?
[1:36:20] OK, so director Dooley,
is there any new business?
[1:36:26] Not tonight.
[1:36:27] No, thank you.
[1:36:30] Councilman Goodenberg,
do you have anything?
[1:36:35] I I will just for just general awareness,
I think I said this last year around this
[1:36:40] time that the Council this month is later
this month on the 17th,
[1:36:44] that we're gonna be off doing.
[1:36:47] Our our goals retreat our priorities.
[1:36:49] I should say priorities retreat,
which will be a full day session,
[1:36:53] and so if there's anything you know that
that you have in mind that you'd like to,
[1:36:57] you know,
have me carry with me in my mind or in in
[1:37:00] an e-mail, please feel free to send it.
[1:37:02] To me, but if not that,
that is all I have.
[1:37:06] Thank you, Sir.
[1:37:10] That concludes the meeting.
[1:37:13] So the Planning Commission is officially
adjourned.