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it's 6:03, and I hope you all had a nice break.

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and we're going to continue where we left off.

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apparently, there are not a ton more questions.

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so for those of you who are wondering when
are we going to get to the real stuff, not

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that this isn't.

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you know, the speakers are not going to go on until 10 o'clock tonight.

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so, and then we will move into the meat
and potatoes of this and questions and

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answers of both
staff and the applicant.

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and then after that, we will go into council/agency deliberations.

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and we have a whole city council meeting agenda thereafter, no matter what happens.

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so we'll be around.

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so with that, I'm going to continue the
meeting and go back to joshua and ask who our

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next speaker is.

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thank you, mr.

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mayor.

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the next speaker is marcella lawson, and the one after that is cynthia marquez.

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thank you very much.

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my name is marcella lawson, and I'm a homeowner in laguna hills.

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I'm strongly in favor of the revised
development agreement for the village at laguna

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hills, and I urge the
council to vote yes today.

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like others who've spoken today, I'm glad
to see the 200-unit standalone building

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that will provide
affordable housing.

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the revised agreement places the building
in a favorable location next to the transit

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hub, and most importantly,

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that it will be built in the first phase of the project.

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these are all positives.

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thank you for that.

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I am, however, disappointed that the current
plan is for all of the 200 units to be

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for seniors.

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I volunteer every week at the food pantry at families forward,

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and I see both seniors and families who
are housing insecure and struggle to afford

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basic needs like food,

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clothing, and school supplies. In addition
to seniors, there's a high need for

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affordable housing for our families,
and I encourage the council to locate

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more options as soon as possible for these
families who need secure and affordable

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housing.

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but most importantly, at this moment, I
encourage you to move forward on this project

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immediately so that the
developer will be in a position

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to acquire the necessary financing for
the affordable housing building in this

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project.

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and like many other residents who said, we
want to get that empty space gone and get

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this beautiful project
moving forward.

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so thank you for your work, and no more delays.

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any questions?

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all right.

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I'm going to add a clarification just for you, and

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that is, hopefully, workforce housing and
other larger projects in terms of size of

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family will be in the future.

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and I just wanted to kind of comment back to you.

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we're not really supposed to do that, but
since there's a number of you here, your

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voice is not lost on that.

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thank you.

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thank you.

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thank you.

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okay, next.

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cynthia marquez, and next will be heidi prescott.

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hello.

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okay, cool.

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hello, good evening.

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my name is cynthia m., and I am staff at the kennedy commission,

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a broad-based coalition of community
members advocating to create strong housing

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policies that increase opportunities for
housing stability for those who call orange

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county

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their home.

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the redevelopment of the old laguna hills
mall into the village at laguna hills is an

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incredible and rare opportunity
to transform an underused

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site into a mixed-use development that
will bring in a new sense of community, the

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type of community that
laguna hills is known for.

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as housing costs continue to rise with no predictable end in sight,

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this project will allow the city to meet
the moment by expanding housing options

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while fostering economic
and community growth.

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that is why the commission urges the
council to vote yes and approve the revised

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development agreement for
the village at laguna hills.

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everybody's favorite topic, rhna: according
to the city's regional housing needs

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allocation,

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laguna hills must accommodate 568 very low-income units and 353 low-income units.

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to date, the city has permitted only 12
very low-income units and two low-income

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units,

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leaving a housing gap of 556 very
low-income units and a housing gap of 351

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low-income units.

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in total, that is a combined deficit of 907 low- and very low-income units.

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with approving this project, that's a big chunk, as another commenter has mentioned.

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given the substantial unmet need, this new
revised proposal to provide 200 affordable

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homes

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for households is a more meaningful response
to the city's housing obligations than

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the original proposal.

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the city's greatest unmet need is clearly among this income category.

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for these reasons, the new revised
affordability proposal is more closely aligned

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with the city's documented housing needs and
represents a stronger contribution toward

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addressing laguna hills' existing shortage of affordable housing.

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I understand there was a comment in the previous

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comment, so I still want to highlight that,
lastly, while the commission recognizes

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the importance of senior housing,
we urge the city to prioritize

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future projects for affordable workforce
housing because a thriving city also depends

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on diverse housing options for working
individuals and families, as a community

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with hotels, medical facilities, schools,
public safety services, laguna hills relies

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on a diverse
workforce every day.

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this site could have been an opportunity for
the residents who belong in laguna hills,

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where they don't need to
commute from other cities

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and can instead live in the community that they help sustain every day.

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but I do want to echo that no more

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no more changes.

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this is a great project on its own, already what has been done so far.

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so the commission urges the council to vote yes on this rare and great opportunity.

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thank you.

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any questions?

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thank you very much.

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okay.

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heidi prescott, and next will be william derentz.

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welcome.

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hello, council.

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to my laguna hills neighbors, you're all my neighbors.

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I've lived in laguna hills for 30 years.

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so I'm just going to quickly, because
you already did this in your presentation,

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council member mathis,

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but 13 years, so the timeline, by the way, you all

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know I'm in favor of this project already because I've spoken about this before.

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but 2009, we had a general plan put together with a land use element.

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it was presented and approved.

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2013, merlone geier bought the property.

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and at that time, our tax base was decreasing significantly.

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right, because of retail.

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2014, the sears store closed.

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2016, we had the five lagunas development plan that was approved.

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we actually had a ceremony with shovels in the ground.

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it's probably on the internet somewhere.

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I didn't actually look for that today when I was doing all my history here.

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three years later, in 2019, we had a revised plan, but the retail environment changed.

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so then we went to 2020, and we had a pandemic.

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so in 2022, we had another revised plan.

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it went from the five lagunas to the village at laguna hills.

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the council approved it.

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three years later, in 2025, we had a revised plan presented to the public.

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nine months after that, here we are.

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so for 13 years, this is what we've been going through as a community.

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so they have revised their plan with great
input from the community and all of the

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council.

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I've been to some of those meetings and the presentations by the developer.

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I love this plan at the end of the day.

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so the last thing I would like to say is we've got affordable.

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they listened.

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thank you for listening.

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uh...

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that isn't always the case, uh...

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we, uh...

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it appears that they have the affordable housing, uh...

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builder who's going to need financing, so
let's do it, let's vote on it, and so they

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can move, uh...

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forward with their plan, uh...

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regarding the ad hoc committee on an
ongoing basis that was brought up tonight, I

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would just encourage you
to think about adding a third

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member because we have a council, uh...

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uh...

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election coming up, right, so three of you
are going to be done with your terms, so I

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know the two of you

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aren't, and you're the ad hoc council.
But I think a third person added to that ad

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hoc council who's there,
who's learning and involved

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might be a good idea, and then I just
want to say to all the other city council

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members over the years that

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a big thank you because a lot of people worked on this.

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we've had four voting cycles in 13 years.

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and the last thing I'd like to say is thank
you to the developer again for listening

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to community input,

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to the concerns of the council.

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thank you to the council members for all of your hard work and efforts.

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and thank you to the city staff.

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this has been a long time coming, so I'll wait for the vote and pop the champagne.

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any questions for heidi?

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dave?

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I was going to give you the opportunity.

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there cannot be a third member because
you can't have any committee that has a

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majority of the council.

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it's against the law.

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yeah, yeah, yeah.

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okay.

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all right.

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so it was a great idea, but it's not going to apply.

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actually, I was going to do the same thing dave did.

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I was going to clarify that for you.

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well, I appreciate it.

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the only way you could do that would be
to have somebody from the public as a third

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member.

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but the brown act will not allow three members of the council to be part of that.

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thank you.

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and I would just add that this is a process of learning, right, for all of us.

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we don't know all the laws and the rules.

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and just being involved in this project has helped me get there.

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but since you brought it up, mayor caskey,
I think there are some opportunities in the

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city

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for volunteers.

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absolutely.

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I intend to write about that very soon.

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you could have a third member as a community member.

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oh, absolutely.

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thank you.

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thank you for that.

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next.

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william derentz, and next will be kendall carter.

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welcome.

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well, thank you.

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good morning.

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good evening, mr.

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mayor and city council members.

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my name is william derentz.

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I'm the founder and president of pumpkin city's pumpkin farm and christmas trees.

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pumpkin city's pumpkin farm was founded
in 1978, and this coming october will be 48

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years in the business.

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of those 48 years, 38 years have been at the laguna hills mall.

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the point being made is the fact that
pumpkin city has a long-term connection with

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the residents of laguna hills.

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our goal at pumpkin city has always been
to provide the families of laguna hills and

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surrounding cities of saddleback
valley with wholesome family

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entertainment.

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our motto is making memories one season at a time.

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for the past 13 years, we've had the privilege
of working with merlone geier property

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management.

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they are a first-class organization.

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they say what they'll do, and they do what they say.

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I'm excited to see the property reimagined for generations to come.

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the laguna hills mall used to be the main
hub of shopping, dining, and entertainment

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for families from
san clemente to irvine,

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from laguna beach to rancho santa margarita, composing

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encompassing all of saddleback valley and more.

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the time has come to revitalize the city of laguna hills.

259
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,978
the time is now to bring the same vibrancy
that it once had in the past to the

260
00:19:44,978 --> 00:19:46,000
community today.

261
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:52,363
I encourage the city to move forward and
approve the redesigned property proposal to

262
00:19:52,363 --> 00:19:56,000
meet the needs of the
community of laguna hills.

263
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:58,000
thank you very much.

264
00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:58,000
any questions?

265
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,000
hearing none, thank you so much.

266
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,000
and we value pumpkin city and all that you've done.

267
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,000
we have kendall carter, and next will be rose casey.

268
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,000
good evening, mayor caskey and members of the laguna hills city council.

269
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,563
my name is kendall carter, and I'm speaking
tonight on behalf of the south orange

270
00:20:25,563 --> 00:20:29,000
county economic coalition in
support of the village at laguna

271
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:29,000
hills project.

272
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:34,000
first, I want to thank the mayor, city council, and city staff,

273
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,000
and everyone who's played a role in advancing this project over the years.

274
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,300
redeveloping a site of this size and
importance takes vision, collaboration, and

275
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:43,000
perseverance.

276
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,169
we appreciate the council's past approvals
and your continued commitment to moving

277
00:20:47,169 --> 00:20:49,000
this transformative
project forward.

278
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,868
socec has proudly supported the redevelopment
of the laguna hills mall site for many

279
00:20:54,868 --> 00:20:58,000
years because we believe it
represents one of the most

280
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,000
significant economic development opportunities in south orange county.

281
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,627
for too long, this property has remained
underutilized in one of the region's most

282
00:21:05,627 --> 00:21:07,000
prominent commercial corridors.

283
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,307
tonight represents an exciting milestone
as we move closer to transforming it into a

284
00:21:11,307 --> 00:21:15,000
vibrant mixed-use destination that
reflects the way people want to live,

285
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,000
work, shop, dine, and gather today.

286
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,099
the village at laguna hills will create
new jobs, generate long-term economic

287
00:21:23,099 --> 00:21:27,626
activity and tax revenue, provide much-needed
housing, and introduce new restaurants,

288
00:21:27,626 --> 00:21:28,000
retail,

289
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,615
entertainment, you name it, public spaces
that will benefit residents throughout the

290
00:21:32,615 --> 00:21:33,000
region.

291
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,150
just as importantly, it breathes new life
into a landmark property that has been an

292
00:21:38,150 --> 00:21:41,000
important part of the laguna
hills community for decades.

293
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,413
we also appreciate merlone geier partners
for their continued investment in this

294
00:21:45,413 --> 00:21:49,000
vision and their willingness to refine the
project throughout the planning process.

295
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:50,000
it's been a long one.

296
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,290
their commitment, together with the city's
leadership, has helped shape a project

297
00:21:55,290 --> 00:21:59,000
that balances economic opportunity
with thoughtful community planning.

298
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,515
on behalf of the south orange county
economic coalition, thank you for your

299
00:22:03,515 --> 00:22:06,000
leadership, your partnership
throughout this process,

300
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,000
and your continued support of this important investment in laguna hills.

301
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,000
we respectfully encourage your approval tonight.

302
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:13,000
thank you.

303
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,000
thank you.

304
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000
do you have any questions?

305
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,000
erica, go ahead.

306
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,000
yes.

307
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:19,000
thank you, ms.

308
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,000
carter, for being present at this meeting.

309
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,400
south orange county economic coalition
was very active in the last meeting with a

310
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,000
number of your group who provided
wholehearted support to the project

311
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:35,000
prior.

312
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:43,000
so just out of curiosity, what makes this project better?

313
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:49,390
because as I recall, a number of people were
extremely invigorated and provided a lot

314
00:22:49,390 --> 00:22:53,000
of positive feedback
regarding the last project.

315
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,000
yeah, we've been working on this since its inception.

316
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,000
I believe it was 2013.

317
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,000
it's been a long time.

318
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,000
we've been in support throughout the entire process.

319
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,000
it just keeps getting better, to be honest.

320
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,000
we've been seeing more community

321
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,980
community input, your guys' input, the ad
hoc committee. We truly believe it's just

322
00:23:12,980 --> 00:23:17,000
been getting better, and we've
been supportive regardless. We think

323
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:21,684
it's time, it's been time to do something
with this property, and we really like what

324
00:23:21,684 --> 00:23:24,000
we're seeing. We've
been liking what we're

325
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,000
seeing. So is there a situation where you wouldn't?

326
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,000
where you would oppose this project, your group?

327
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,000
there's probably many situations.

328
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,000
we're just not in one of those.

329
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,000
okay.

330
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,000
thank you.

331
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:38,000
thank you.

332
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,000
any other questions?

333
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:42,000
okay.

334
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,000
thank you very much.

335
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,000
thank you.

336
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:45,000
next.

337
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,000
we have rose casey, and the next will be griffin joseph.

338
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,000
welcome.

339
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:51,000
welcome.

340
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
good evening, mayor caskey, mayor pro tem mathis, and council members.

341
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,414
I'm rose casey, executive director of
planning, and here to speak on behalf of the

342
00:23:59,414 --> 00:24:02,000
orange county transportation
authority, or octa,

343
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,647
regarding the village at laguna hills
development and the critical continued

344
00:24:05,647 --> 00:24:08,000
coordination needed
with the I-5 el toro project.

345
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,903
this was also communicated via letter from
the octa board chairman federico to the

346
00:24:12,903 --> 00:24:14,000
city council yesterday.

347
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,502
the I-5 el toro road interchange project is
a committed measure m2 freeway project in

348
00:24:19,502 --> 00:24:23,000
the transportation investment
plan that was approved by the voters

349
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,019
and was identified as one of the highest
priorities for the three cities of laguna

350
00:24:28,019 --> 00:24:29,000
hills, laguna woods,

351
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,000
and lake forest during the development of
measure m2, and that shared commitment has

352
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,000
guided this effort
for well over a decade.

353
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,555
octa has worked collaboratively with the
three cities and caltrans to advance this

354
00:24:39,555 --> 00:24:40,000
project.

355
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:41,000
in march of 2022,

356
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,863
two build alternatives received unanimous
support from the staff of all three cities,

357
00:24:46,863 --> 00:24:50,000
including laguna hills, to move
forward to the environmental process,

358
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,000
which restarted in january of 2023.

359
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,642
since that time, octa has facilitated
productive discussions among all partner

360
00:24:57,642 --> 00:25:02,583
agencies to achieve consensus on this
project that will bring congestion relief and

361
00:25:02,583 --> 00:25:03,000
improve

362
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,000
traffic circulation to the area.

363
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,191
we are working to keep the project on track
for a preferred alternative decision by

364
00:25:10,191 --> 00:25:11,000
the end of 2026,

365
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,000
and completion of the environmental document in early 2027.

366
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:20,333
the coordinated planning of projects
between the city and octa has aimed for the

367
00:25:20,333 --> 00:25:25,000
greatest public benefit and good
stewardship of taxpayer dollars while

368
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,000
minimizing impacts on private parties.

369
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,210
we ask that any development agreement
approved by the city protect the zoning of

370
00:25:32,210 --> 00:25:35,000
areas that have been the
subject of years of planning

371
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000
between octa and the city for the I-5 el toro project.

372
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:44,067
anything short of this protection could
result in significant and costly impacts to

373
00:25:44,067 --> 00:25:47,000
taxpayers and/or further
congestion in the area.

374
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,333
octa is aware of the importance of the
village at laguna hills project to the city

375
00:25:52,333 --> 00:25:55,000
and believes that
the I-5 el toro project

376
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,000
supports the development by improving traffic circulation in the immediate area.

377
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,324
to support both of these important
priorities and ensure the greatest benefit to

378
00:26:03,324 --> 00:26:05,000
taxpayers and all stakeholders,

379
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,451
octa requests that the updated site plan
include surface parking and/or landscaping

380
00:26:11,451 --> 00:26:15,000
along avenida de la carlota
in the vicinity of the I-5

381
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,000
el toro project, along with adequate setbacks.

382
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,551
in addition, octa requests that the
development agreement include provisions that

383
00:26:21,551 --> 00:26:23,000
commit the developer
accordingly,

384
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,000
including within section 12.4 of the proposed development agreement.

385
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,731
so in summary, octa respectfully requests
that the city council direct city staff to

386
00:26:31,731 --> 00:26:35,000
work with octa on an expeditious
resolution that meets all

387
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,741
parties' goals, supports both projects to
move forward successfully, and that these

388
00:26:39,741 --> 00:26:43,000
are reflected in the village
at laguna hills entitlement.

389
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,000
so thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

390
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:46,000
hang on.

391
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000
dave, you had a question?

392
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,000
yes, I have quite a few questions, actually.

393
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:56,000
are you going to be able to stick around for the rest of the meeting?

394
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,000
I can be available, yes.

395
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,000
okay, I think it's probably a good idea.

396
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,000
you said that all cities approve this design.

397
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:07,000
that's not true.

398
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,410
I've been opposed to this design that
they've dumped in for years, and we haven't

399
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:12,000
approved that.

400
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,279
and I've talked with people in lake forest,
and there's some over there that don't

401
00:27:15,279 --> 00:27:16,000
approve it either.

402
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,000
so I don't know where you got the idea that all the cities approve this.

403
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,943
councilmember wheeler, octa has been
working with caltrans and the staff from the

404
00:27:25,943 --> 00:27:28,000
three cities for many years.

405
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,000
we've looked at a total of 22 alternatives.

406
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,000
finally, in 2023 or 2022, we came to an agreement with staff

407
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,000
from the cities on two alternatives.

408
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,107
so one was a flyover design that went into
lake forest, and the other one is on the

409
00:27:44,107 --> 00:27:45,000
laguna hills side.

410
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,000
okay, yes.

411
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,000
and so where we are now with the project is that it's in the environmental phase.

412
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,000
we have a preliminary design that's been developed by caltrans,

413
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:00,592
and they are working to minimize impacts
from that alternative on the laguna hills

414
00:28:00,592 --> 00:28:03,000
side and bring it in
closer to the freeway.

415
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000
this particular design that you say has been approved, which I contend it has not,

416
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,000
it destroys one of our major—well, I'm saying major—one of our little shopping areas.

417
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,000
it cuts into the hotel that merlone geier is trying to get built.

418
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:19,000
it would destroy it.

419
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,000
so how are these things going to impact each other?

420
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,000
I mean, I can't see these two meshing.

421
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:31,311
councilmember, we are working with city
staff to minimize the impacts of the I-5 el

422
00:28:31,311 --> 00:28:34,000
toro project design,
but at the same time,

423
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,000
it will provide traffic benefits to the area.

424
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:44,000
so there is that coordinated effort to have both projects move forward successfully.

425
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,000
well, our chief director has opposed this design.

426
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,000
he's presented to you guys with a design that would be much simpler.

427
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,000
it would save the county millions of dollars.

428
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,000
it meets it all with a few simple fixes in laguna hills,

429
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:04,146
but you guys haven't even considered that.
Councilmember wheeler, we have looked at

430
00:29:04,146 --> 00:29:07,000
that. We would look
at the signage that's been

431
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:11,000
proposed. We have tsm, or transportation system management,

432
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,849
transportation demand management, sort
of lower-cost improvements that could be

433
00:29:15,849 --> 00:29:18,000
folded in with a
build alternative.

434
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,000
but after years of doing traffic analysis,
and we've had consultants retained by

435
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,000
caltrans to look at all of this,

436
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,285
there is traffic benefit that could be
provided to the area if the build alternative

437
00:29:31,285 --> 00:29:32,000
moves forward.

438
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:33,000
okay.

439
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,000
we'll have to talk a lot about this.

440
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,000
I don't think there's any benefits to it at all.

441
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:43,000
if caltrans did get authority to build this, when would you start?

442
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:50,058
councilmember wheeler, this project
is in octa's next 10 delivery plan for

443
00:29:50,058 --> 00:29:53,000
environmental work
to be completed by 2030.

444
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,009
if we are able to reach a preferred
alternative that all cities support, and that

445
00:29:58,009 --> 00:29:59,000
really is important,

446
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000
we would then be able to move forward into design and then construction.

447
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000
so design might take a few years.

448
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,000
construction could then take maybe three to four years.

449
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:15,903
so post the environmental document being
approved, and right now the target is early

450
00:30:15,903 --> 00:30:21,000
2027, we could reach construction
within seven to eight years.

451
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000
seven to eight years from now.

452
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:23,000
I'm sorry.

453
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:25,000
let me correct myself.

454
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,000
we could complete construction in seven to eight years.

455
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,705
so you're saying we need to wait eight
years to decide whether you can actually get

456
00:30:31,705 --> 00:30:32,000
it built,

457
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,000
and it's going to take two or three years to design it.

458
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,672
well, my understanding is that merlone geier
is trying to complete this hotel before

459
00:30:37,672 --> 00:30:39,000
the olympics, which is in '28.

460
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:45,000
so how can the—if I was a hotel buyer, I'd say, hey, what are you going to do?

461
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000
I'm going to build my hotel, and you're going to run a freeway through it?

462
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,000
those don't seem to coordinate.

463
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:51,000
so may we please stick around?

464
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000
I'm sure there will be more discussions on this.

465
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:54,000
thank you.

466
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:54,000
okay, thank you.

467
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:56,000
erica.

468
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,000
yes, thank you for attending.

469
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:09,369
so from what I understand, the octa future
plan cuts into the hotel that's in this

470
00:31:09,369 --> 00:31:10,000
design.

471
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:12,000
that is correct.

472
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:12,000
okay.

473
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:19,891
have you worked with the applicant regarding
this plan, and have you advised the city

474
00:31:19,891 --> 00:31:21,000
about this plan?

475
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,142
councilmember, the city staff has been
advised of the plan. We have been working

476
00:31:27,142 --> 00:31:31,000
through city staff, who has
been working with the developer.

477
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:37,692
okay, so the developer is aware, and so
the developer was aware of this plan; city

478
00:31:37,692 --> 00:31:39,000
staff are aware.

479
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:49,173
I'm sure the ad hoc committee was perhaps
aware of this. Okay, that's above my

480
00:31:49,173 --> 00:31:51,000
apologies, and

481
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:53,000
okay.

482
00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:03,000
so can you let me know approximately how long this plan has been in play?

483
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000
so the current environmental phase of the project began in january of 2023.

484
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:11,000
january 2023?

485
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:12,000
correct.

486
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,000
okay.

487
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:17,285
that's when the environmental phase work
began, which means that preliminary designs

488
00:32:17,285 --> 00:32:18,000
are developed,

489
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,655
environmental technical studies are
performed with respect to noise and visual

490
00:32:23,655 --> 00:32:27,000
impacts and so forth, and
traffic impacts in particular.

491
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,000
and so that work has been going on.

492
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,178
at this point, the project team is
preparing to release a draft environmental

493
00:32:34,178 --> 00:32:37,000
document for public review
at the end of this month.

494
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:44,000
and then to proceed with achieving a project decision by the end of the year. Okay,

495
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:54,000
so you've known about this plan since 2023. Thank you. Okay,

496
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:01,073
I have a couple questions, clarifications.
Because I read the letter that you sent,

497
00:33:01,073 --> 00:33:04,000
and just what you
said in front of us, I

498
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,000
I have been on this council for five years, and

499
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:14,555
I was appointed five years ago as a
councilperson, taking the spot of someone who had

500
00:33:14,555 --> 00:33:15,000
left.

501
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,611
and one of the first things, as an architect
and a planner, one of the first things

502
00:33:20,611 --> 00:33:22,000
that I was curious about,

503
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:31,000
having worked for octa with my firm probably 20 years ago on projects, was, okay,

504
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,000
what's happening out there at the freeway at this junction?

505
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:41,279
so I reached out to octa as a newly appointed
councilperson and asked for a meeting,

506
00:33:41,279 --> 00:33:43,000
which was very cordial.

507
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,000
it was wonderful.

508
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:50,169
I had a meeting, and actually I was shown
at that meeting, this was probably four and

509
00:33:50,169 --> 00:33:53,000
a half years ago,
four different plans.

510
00:33:54,000 --> 00:34:01,000
one was a flyover to the lake forest side, along with a traffic circle and all that.

511
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,268
one was something similar to what I've
seen just recently, and a couple of others

512
00:34:07,268 --> 00:34:10,000
where they were
threaded, and you name it.

513
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,000
so I asked people to keep me informed.

514
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,000
you know how many meetings or phone calls or anything I've gotten since then?

515
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,000
zero from octa.

516
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,000
zero.

517
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:30,000
and I reached out to you and asked to be updated and all the rest of that.

518
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:36,351
so it bothers me a little bit that in
your letter you're saying, oh, we've all

519
00:34:36,351 --> 00:34:38,000
concurred and, you know,

520
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,000
all that kind of stuff.

521
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,797
so I'm also here to tell you, as a member
of the ad hoc committee, that the ad hoc

522
00:34:44,797 --> 00:34:46,000
committee itself,

523
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:53,608
working on a $700 million project for three
years, okay, and that's just officially

524
00:34:53,608 --> 00:34:57,000
for, you know, for
a year and a half.

525
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,000
I've been working on it for three years.

526
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:08,112
we haven't received anything until maybe
we got a little bit of a hint of this about

527
00:35:08,112 --> 00:35:10,000
two, two and a half months ago,

528
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:19,150
that you'd abandoned the idea that you had
so strongly proposed that was all on the

529
00:35:19,150 --> 00:35:22,000
lake forest side, and now you

530
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,039
wanted to go with this. Then I looked, as
somebody who's been in the design business

531
00:35:27,039 --> 00:35:28,000
for a long time.

532
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,000
I looked at the schedule, and

533
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,000
that came along with that.

534
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,000
it was your powerpoint.

535
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,289
and it talked about, oh, we're going to
take this to the public to explain what we

536
00:35:39,289 --> 00:35:40,000
want to do.

537
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,887
and in the meantime, we're going to start
a ceqa process, which takes, for something

538
00:35:44,887 --> 00:35:46,000
like that, about a year.

539
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:52,000
and so I've been in that, and I've done all of that.

540
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:58,905
and I'm hearing right now, we're talking
about that we're supposed to hold up our

541
00:35:58,905 --> 00:36:03,000
project in some way for
potentially seven years,

542
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,311
when one of the key components of that was
meant to be a hotel that was going to open

543
00:36:09,311 --> 00:36:11,000
up before the '28 olympics.

544
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,000
so I just want to make sure I'm asking questions.

545
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:23,000
am I getting all this straight, that you've collaborated with staff?

546
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:25,000
who on the staff?

547
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,000
and in what level of collaboration?

548
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:35,929
so, mayor caskey, if I may, this project
has spanned years, and the reason it spanned

549
00:36:35,929 --> 00:36:39,000
years is because this
is a local interchange

550
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,000
traffic improvement project.

551
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,000
so it's not adding lanes to a freeway.

552
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,000
it's not all the other projects that octa has proceeded with.

553
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:54,000
it's a project that the local cities and the communities need to support.

554
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,000
we have taken the time to develop many different alternatives,

555
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:03,059
and the two that you mentioned are the
ones that have been considered for the past

556
00:37:03,059 --> 00:37:04,000
two to three years,

557
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,000
so the flyover and then the current alternative on the laguna hills side.

558
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,695
so reaching way back in time, there was
coordination with ken rosenfield, who was

559
00:37:13,695 --> 00:37:17,000
with the city for many years,
and then after that, it was

560
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,000
also with mr.

561
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,000
ames and mr.

562
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,000
hildenbrand, and then more recently with

563
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:25,000
mr.

564
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,000
wingenroth, and also with mr.

565
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:31,731
ames. All right, that was after the latest
decision was made with wingenroth. Had he

566
00:37:31,731 --> 00:37:35,000
heard anything? Of course,
it wasn't years and years since

567
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:42,179
he hasn't been here a year yet, so okay, so
that answers my questions. You did know

568
00:37:42,179 --> 00:37:43,000
some of the

569
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,000
some of the names.

570
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:50,000
we will definitely dig in with staff and see what level of collaboration there was,

571
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:55,177
because I would think the same staff that
was working with the ad hoc committee on

572
00:37:55,177 --> 00:37:56,000
this, I mean,

573
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,000
a year ago would have been telling us, oh my gosh, we've got this.

574
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,000
and as a member of that ad hoc committee working very hard, I hadn't heard anything.

575
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:13,000
so I appreciate your presentation and candor in answering our questions.

576
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,601
mayor caskey, if I could add just very
briefly, the cities have been at different

577
00:38:18,601 --> 00:38:19,000
levels.

578
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,000
so we have what's called a project team meeting.

579
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,000
that's maybe public works-type staff at those meetings.

580
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,947
we've had executive-level meetings, and
actually since february of last year, we've

581
00:38:30,947 --> 00:38:35,000
had 14 executive-level meetings,
including our ceo, darrell johnson.

582
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,000
with laguna hills?

583
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,000
correct, and with the two other cities.

584
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,000
with laguna, you have 14 meetings.

585
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,000
yes.

586
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,000
and just if I could just clarify on the schedule,

587
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:47,335
because I think it needs some clarification
maybe with the way that I tried to answer

588
00:38:47,335 --> 00:38:48,000
the question.

589
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,000
so right now we're in the environmental phase.

590
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,000
we hope to reach the end of that phase early next year.

591
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:01,208
at that point in time, then would be the
decision on whether to proceed with design,

592
00:39:01,208 --> 00:39:04,000
which also includes
right-of-way acquisition,

593
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:05,000
and then into construction.

594
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:09,760
so when I mentioned the seven to eight years
earlier, that was with the completion of

595
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,000
construction and
opening of the project.

596
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,000
yeah, no, I understand that.

597
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,000
yeah, so we will check it out on this side.

598
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:18,000
uh...

599
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:19,000
and, uh...

600
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:26,527
and I just want you to realize, as you
know, this kind of goes back, that this will

601
00:39:26,527 --> 00:39:27,000
be one

602
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,000
time, basically, up here at the podium, that we will do that, and, uh...

603
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:38,422
but what the letter actually asks is
that we cooperate together and try to find

604
00:39:38,422 --> 00:39:42,000
solutions that work
for both. We have a six,

605
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,000
seven hundred million dollar project on this side

606
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:52,554
that has been in the works for quite a while,
as we all know, and you have a, what is

607
00:39:52,554 --> 00:39:53,000
it, a

608
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:58,000
$200 or $300 million off-ramp and on-ramp project that you would like to float,

609
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,000
and hopefully we can find a solution that works for us both.

610
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,000
so any other questions?

611
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,000
yes, erica.

612
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,000
so a question that I have is: the plan is already determined and decided.

613
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,000
if the land would...

614
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000
it would go under eminent domain, is that correct?

615
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:27,543
councilmember, if there is an alternative
that is approved by all parties, and that's

616
00:40:27,543 --> 00:40:31,000
what's reflected in the final
environmental document,

617
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,920
that would then be designed, and then based
upon that final design, there would be

618
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:40,000
properties identified for acquisition,
whether it's partial or full.

619
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:41,000
this is in general.

620
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:48,440
I think in all cases, we would seek to
reach an agreement, an arm's-length

621
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:53,000
transaction, and avoid condemnation
or eminent domain actions.

622
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,000
that's really our goal in some cases.

623
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:02,000
in order to maintain project schedule, we do need to look at eminent domain.

624
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:09,545
in the event that eminent domain is required,
would a property such as a hotel have

625
00:41:09,545 --> 00:41:12,000
higher land value versus...

626
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,000
another commercial property?

627
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:24,663
I am not a real estate expert, but what we
provided in the letter as far as potential

628
00:41:24,663 --> 00:41:28,000
alternate uses of
the particular area

629
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,000
along carlota, as far as landscaping or surface parking,

630
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:38,891
I would imagine that that would be less cost
than a hotel structure or other types of

631
00:41:38,891 --> 00:41:41,000
buildings on the property.

632
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,000
okay, thank you.

633
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:51,000
dave, you mentioned something that said if all parties agree.

634
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,000
well, I don't know that laguna hills would agree to that.

635
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,000
so if we do not agree, what happens?

636
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,000
then you have an eminent domain over top of us?

637
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,846
no, so councilmember wheeler, we would
not proceed forward unless there is a

638
00:42:05,846 --> 00:42:11,000
consensus among the cities. At
such time that there's that decision

639
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:17,054
to be made, which will be by the end of the
year, on a build alternative, octa would

640
00:42:17,054 --> 00:42:19,000
have to decide at that time

641
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,199
if we move forward with
the project or we don't.

642
00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:27,000
it's a local traffic improvement, a
local benefit. We would want to make

643
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,000
sure that that is supported, and

644
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:32,000
that's a little bit out of the scope.

645
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,353
we may want to add to our thinking tonight
about denying this project so we can be

646
00:42:36,353 --> 00:42:38,000
done with it and go on with our

647
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:38,000
project.

648
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,000
thank you for your comments.

649
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,000
I don't see any other questions.

650
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:47,000
thank you.

651
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:48,000
yeah.

652
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,000
all right.

653
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,000
next.

654
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,000
we have griffin joseph, and then next will be cathy udovch.

655
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:00,000
welcome.

656
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,000
good evening, mayor and honorable council members.

657
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,000
my name is griffin joseph, and I'm here on behalf of unite here local 11, a

658
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,105
union representing over 25,000 hospitality
workers across southern california,

659
00:43:12,105 --> 00:43:14,000
including residents
of laguna hills.

660
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,280
as we stated in april of last year, we are
concerned that the reduction in housing

661
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,000
units may not align
with the city's housing

662
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:21,000
goals.

663
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,634
the city's own findings show total residential
units dropping from the maximum of 1,

664
00:43:26,634 --> 00:43:30,000
500 in the original project to
as low as 1,457 in the amended

665
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:30,000
project.

666
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,000
that reduction masks a more significant shift.

667
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,862
the amended project would remove hundreds
of market-rate rental units, replacing much

668
00:43:37,862 --> 00:43:40,000
of that rental housing
with 356 for-sale units.

669
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,000
critically, none of these replacement ownership units are affordable.

670
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,820
in short, fewer units overall, no affordable
ownership opportunities, and a shift

671
00:43:47,820 --> 00:43:49,000
away from rental housing.

672
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,778
additionally, the post-segregation of
the 200 affordable housing units into a

673
00:43:52,778 --> 00:43:56,704
standalone site raises questions about
whether this may be inconsistent with the

674
00:43:56,704 --> 00:43:57,000
city's

675
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,000
policies promoting mixed-income housing.

676
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,050
the original plan had these units spread
across the development, fostering a more

677
00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:04,000
integral community.

678
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,000
relatedly, while we strongly support senior housing and want to see more of it, the

679
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,849
city is missing an opportunity by
restricting all the affordable units in the

680
00:44:11,849 --> 00:44:13,000
development to seniors.

681
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,000
this restriction is unnecessary even on its own terms.

682
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,000
because these units are already income-restricted,

683
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,434
low-income seniors, including retirees
living on social security, would already

684
00:44:22,434 --> 00:44:26,000
qualify for and have access to this housing
without an additional age restriction.

685
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,000
layering the age restriction

686
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:32,000
on top of income restriction does not add protection for seniors.

687
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,000
it simply excludes working-age people who are equally in need.

688
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,000
people of all ages are in desperate need of affordable housing.

689
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,000
finally, we question the need for a second hotel.

690
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,000
that land could be used for additional housing.

691
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,806
additionally, the previous development
agreement only allowed for a single one-year

692
00:44:46,806 --> 00:44:48,000
delay for the first hotel.

693
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,416
it did not allow the first hotel to be
delayed indefinitely through the successive

694
00:44:51,416 --> 00:44:53,000
18-month feasibility
study extensions.

695
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,000
why should we believe a second hotel will ever actually be built?

696
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,097
taken together, there are fewer units, no
new affordability, segregated rather than

697
00:45:01,097 --> 00:45:05,000
integrated affordable housing, and a
hotel addition that may never materialize.

698
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,000
this project moves the city further from its housing goals, not closer to them.

699
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,000
we respectfully urge you to vote no on this project.

700
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:13,000
thank you.

701
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:13,000
thank you.

702
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,000
any questions?

703
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,000
thank you very much.

704
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,000
thank you very much.

705
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,574
next is cathy udovch, and then that will be
the end of in-person speakers that I have

706
00:45:24,574 --> 00:45:25,000
currently.

707
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:25,000
all right.

708
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,000
last person.

709
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:28,000
in the audience.

710
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:29,000
in the audience.

711
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,000
we have one online.

712
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:30,000
okay.

713
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:32,000
welcome.

714
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,000
of course.

715
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,000
just tell people to ignore the invisible, or the visible, v in my name.

716
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:43,000
hi, I'm cathy.

717
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,000
thank you for hearing this.

718
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,000
it sounds like you guys have been sitting here for a long time.

719
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,000
took a little break.

720
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:58,000
I'm here to talk about the housing project, and I do just want to encourage you and...

721
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,936
the developers to continue to keep in
mind low- and very low-income housing for

722
00:46:06,936 --> 00:46:08,000
families as well,

723
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:16,000
keeping in mind that not just rentals, but for purchase would be really nice.

724
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:21,000
and it's more or less just giving people the chance to live near where they work.

725
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,730
and I'm just going to say that I am now an
example of someone who now works in the

726
00:46:25,730 --> 00:46:27,000
city I live in because

727
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,000
I just transferred from an office in san clemente

728
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:35,000
to the laguna hills office, and I get a surface-street commute, and it's awesome.

729
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:41,405
and it's just, you know, when it comes to
affordability, less gas, less pollution in

730
00:46:41,405 --> 00:46:44,000
the air, better
life-home balance.

731
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,000
and so just want to, you know, keep that in mind.

732
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,585
and, you know, people want to be near
their kids, near their families, near their

733
00:46:52,585 --> 00:46:55,000
friends, and where
they're working.

734
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:58,000
so just keep that in mind as the project unfolds.

735
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,373
progresses and goes from stage to stage,
because it sounds like it's going to be

736
00:47:03,373 --> 00:47:07,000
segments over time, that
we're not locked into any one

737
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:15,719
mindset now, that we can adapt to what the
needs are in the community. Okay, that's

738
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:16,000
it.

739
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,000
all right, any questions? Seeing none.

740
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,000
thank you so much. Okay.

741
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,000
and now we'll turn to what, online?

742
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,000
or on phone?

743
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,000
on phone, yes.

744
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,000
by the last four digits, we have 3034.

745
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,000
you'll be asked to unmute.

746
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,000
hello, can I speak?

747
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,000
yes, you can speak.

748
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,000
you have three minutes.

749
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:46,000
hello?

750
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,000
hello?

751
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:49,000
yes, can you hear us?

752
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,000
welcome.

753
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:03,000
hello.

754
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,000
are you able to hear us?

755
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,000
yes, I can hear you now.

756
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,000
thank you very much.

757
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,000
yes, you have three minutes.

758
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:09,000
hello.

759
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:10,000
good evening.

760
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:11,000
thank you.

761
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,000
thank you so much.

762
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,000
good evening, mayor and honorable council members.

763
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:18,496
this is charlie carno, and I'm here on
behalf of unite here local 11, a union

764
00:48:18,496 --> 00:48:22,000
representing over 25,000 workers
across southern california,

765
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,000
including residents of laguna hills.

766
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,000
to speak plainly, we urge a no vote on this project.

767
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,000
these changes mean fewer overall units,

768
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,306
no new affordable units, segregated rather
than integrated affordable housing, and a

769
00:48:34,306 --> 00:48:38,000
hotel addition that may never
materialize. We believe this project moves

770
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:43,041
the city further from its housing goals than
the previous project, rather than closer

771
00:48:43,041 --> 00:48:45,000
to them. As we
said, as I think I

772
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:52,000
said in 2022 when I spoke on the original, on the previous proposal of this project,

773
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:56,719
we believe this project could be a model
for the region: environmentally friendly,

774
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,000
walkable, equitable, bikeable,
and a comfortable village.

775
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,684
however, that's why I'm very disappointed
that some of the comments we made all the

776
00:49:04,684 --> 00:49:07,000
way back then were
apparently not heeded.

777
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:13,000
we said that we thought that there could be more dedicated bike lanes on the site.

778
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,148
but from what I can tell with the staff
report, and please correct this, I would love

779
00:49:17,148 --> 00:49:18,000
to be wrong about this,

780
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,000
but what we still have are class iii bike lanes

781
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,000
which could be as little as painted arrows on the ground.

782
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,646
additionally, in terms of landscaping, I
see references to drought-resistant or

783
00:49:29,646 --> 00:49:34,000
water-efficient landscaping, but I
think that we should use native plants.

784
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,967
I would also say that we have a great
resource in orange county, which is the orange

785
00:49:37,967 --> 00:49:40,000
county chapter of
the native plant society,

786
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:46,000
which can really help with advising us on what native plants to use on the site.

787
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,000
and just to echo what cathy said,

788
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:50,000
and what my colleagues said.

789
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:57,141
we're concerned both about the reduction in
housing and the move to ownership housing,

790
00:49:57,141 --> 00:49:59,000
which can be inaccessible.

791
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:04,019
it would be great if we actually had
affordable ownership opportunities that could

792
00:50:04,019 --> 00:50:08,000
allow working people to do, and
I really congratulate you, cathy,

793
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:15,000
own something and both work and live in the same community.

794
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,409
secondly, as my colleague said, people
of all ages are in desperate need of

795
00:50:19,409 --> 00:50:21,000
affordable housing
in laguna hills,

796
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,047
and one of the great benefits of affordable
housing is that you can allow people to

797
00:50:25,047 --> 00:50:27,000
live closer to where
they work and spend

798
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,000
more time with their families.

799
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,793
by restricting the development to seniors,
the city is excluding some working people

800
00:50:32,793 --> 00:50:36,000
who often must commute long
distances because they can't afford to live

801
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,887
in south orange county because of their age,
even though the income restriction alone

802
00:50:40,887 --> 00:50:44,000
would already ensure the housing
serves low-income residents or very

803
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:44,000
low-income residents.

804
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,000
seniors included.

805
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:47,000
this is the wrong approach.

806
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:52,510
another major concern is the reduction in
retail space, which could harm the city's

807
00:50:52,510 --> 00:50:53,000
tax base.

808
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,684
and finally, while I understand that there
has been some sort of letter submitted

809
00:50:59,684 --> 00:51:02,000
about who may
be doing the hotel,

810
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,000
I looked and I was unable to find public comment on this.

811
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:08,000
I really did try to look before the meeting.

812
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,463
I would just note that the previous
development agreement only allowed a single

813
00:51:12,463 --> 00:51:14,000
one-year delay
for the first hotel.

814
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:16,000
speaker, that is your time.

815
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:17,000
oh, thank you.

816
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,000
thank you very much.

817
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:19,000
bye.

818
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:21,000
okay.

819
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,000
thank you very much for your comments.

820
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,000
do we have any other on-phone ones?

821
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:29,000
we have no more online.

822
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,000
okay.

823
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:37,000
so that brings us to—you're going to read the list of—

824
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:46,190
comments that we have received digitally,
so we don't have to listen to 40 or 50

825
00:51:46,190 --> 00:51:47,000
comments.

826
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,000
we're just reading the names because we have to. Yes.

827
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:57,295
for the ones that are in support, we have
amir baum, ann beltran, ann kolar, bruce

828
00:51:57,295 --> 00:52:02,000
johnson, cesar covarrubias,
christine morinello, cindy ashley,

829
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:09,266
denise letgers, elizabeth hansburg, erin
simmons-schwartz, frieda gorelick, hugh and

830
00:52:09,266 --> 00:52:15,302
nancy winter, jay with the last initial
c, jill martinez, joel goldstein, judy

831
00:52:15,302 --> 00:52:16,000
northrop,

832
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,000
kathy esfahani, keith tuominen,

833
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:28,123
marcella lawson, margaret struve, marilyn
schroeder, mark allshouse, michelle antenesse,

834
00:52:28,123 --> 00:52:35,000
micki nozaki, reverend celia young, reverend
rayna hamre, ron, no last name given,

835
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:41,827
rona henry, rosemarie jensen, sayre
weaver, sheryl sterry, stan goldberg, susan

836
00:52:41,827 --> 00:52:45,000
dearing, vicki hines,
and wendy washington.

837
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:52,000
two letters that were neutral: one from octa and one from the city of lake forest.

838
00:52:54,000 --> 00:53:01,134
in the opposed, we have angelica ramirez,
daisy pascua, fiegan fazilat, geoff

839
00:53:01,134 --> 00:53:09,000
leavell, giselle hernandez, incia haider,
james blacken, james grierson, lorene mann,

840
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,000
lucila soria, ramades flores, stacey demore, and wes chavez.

841
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,000
and those are the comments that we received by the cutoff at 4 p.m.

842
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:21,000
all right.

843
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:27,000
I'm going to, since people come and go and all the rest of that, I'm going to ask, is

844
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:34,280
there any other public comment that we
missed before we gavel close of the public

845
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:35,000
hearing?

846
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:40,128
it doesn't mean we can't reopen it, but I'm
going to gavel that close so we can move

847
00:53:40,128 --> 00:53:43,000
on to questions about
presentations themselves.

848
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:45,000
any other comments?

849
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:54,000
okay, seeing none, I'm going to gavel the close of the public hearing,

850
00:53:54,000 --> 00:54:01,000
and we are going to now move on to questions of the planning.

851
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:07,594
these will be planning agency questions
of staff, and the developer will start with

852
00:54:07,594 --> 00:54:08,000
staff.

853
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:15,000
okay, dave?

854
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,000
okay, a number of questions.

855
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,000
mr.

856
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,000
oros, could you bring up the presentation, staff presentation?

857
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,000
could you bring up the staff presentation online so that people can see it?

858
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:31,000
first, I want to preface my questions.

859
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,000
I think it's totally inappropriate that we even are taking a vote tonight.

860
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:42,000
I received this package yesterday, the final package on this project.

861
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,000
not being on the ad hoc, we didn't get any access to it.

862
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,641
and essentially also the front section of
it was wrong, and I had to get a new one

863
00:54:50,641 --> 00:54:52,000
today, which is correct.

864
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,000
I haven't had a chance to review that in any reasonable detail.

865
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:02,000
so I think to present everything tonight is great, but we shouldn't be voting on it.

866
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:03,000
we should be talking about it and discussing it.

867
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:05,000
okay, questions with the package.

868
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,000
I don't know what page it is.

869
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,000
I received the economic evaluation on friday.

870
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:22,164
and the laguna hills chief financial
director, we went over that yesterday and put

871
00:55:22,164 --> 00:55:25,000
some numbers in it, and
I compared the value.

872
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:30,000
and the version that I got on friday does not match what was presented tonight.

873
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,000
I'll get into that in the merlone geier section.

874
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,000
and it's very, very optimistic.

875
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,853
when I did my first quick calculations,
instead of being, I think it was a

876
00:55:38,853 --> 00:55:40,000
$1.3 million positive,

877
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,000
I came up with roughly a half-million-dollar negative.

878
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,000
I did this evaluation four years ago.

879
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,000
I was on the original ad hoc committee.

880
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:53,000
and we had some discussions back then, too, about these very, very optimistic things.

881
00:55:57,000 --> 00:55:57,000
questions?

882
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,000
somebody said in the presentation, why now?

883
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:01,000
after 13 years?

884
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,000
I wish the ad hoc committee had gone back a little further in history.

885
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,000
we've been doing this, as one of the people that talked about mentioned.

886
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:10,000
we've had I don't know how many versions of this.

887
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:16,099
we're now supposed to evaluate this, given
the information, and only available for

888
00:56:16,099 --> 00:56:17,000
one to three days.

889
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,000
ridiculous.

890
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,000
it said one of the cases is almost no new.

891
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,000
most of this whole thing is brand new.

892
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:30,000
the whole thing is different.

893
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:40,000
it said in the presentation that there's now less than 210,000 square feet.

894
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:42,000
I think the presentation said somewhere.

895
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:44,000
I don't know if you can find that page now.

896
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:49,000
let's see if we can find that one.

897
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:53,000
keep going.

898
00:56:56,000 --> 00:56:56,000
there it is.

899
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:57,000
page five.

900
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,000
less than 210,000 square feet of retail.

901
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,000
well, that's extremely optimistic, and that's not what's in the da.

902
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,000
the da says 163,000, so why is this even in this page?

903
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:08,000
okay.

904
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,000
thank you, councilmember wheeler, for the question.

905
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:23,847
so this was a provision that was written
into the 2022 da of what qualified as a

906
00:57:23,847 --> 00:57:25,000
major modification.

907
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:29,000
so a major modification on having to go back to city council for review and approval.

908
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,824
so if the project had more than five
residential buildings or less than 210,000

909
00:57:33,824 --> 00:57:37,000
square feet, that qualified
as a major modification.

910
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,000
and so that's how the project was applied under.

911
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,000
a retail total is about 160,000 square feet.

912
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,000
so that's 160,000, not 210,000?

913
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:45,000
correct.

914
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,000
okay.

915
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:46,000
mr.

916
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:50,000
oros, will you turn to page six, please?

917
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:55,000
okay.

918
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,000
I want to call note to the losses.

919
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:04,000
we've lost 86,000, 87,000 square feet of retail.

920
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,000
we lost our entire office space.

921
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:12,000
the hotel, we've gained 89 rooms.

922
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,000
residential, lost 43.

923
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,000
parking lost 2,000.

924
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:23,000
how are all these losses considered good, and you'd recommend that we pass this?

925
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:28,000
we're losing everything but residences.

926
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,000
that's a question for staff, because you recommend that we pass this.

927
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:37,000
so why are these losses acceptable?

928
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:42,469
so staff is recommending based on the
project: although there is a loss of over

929
00:58:42,469 --> 00:58:45,000
86,000 square feet, we are
gaining a second hotel.

930
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,230
so based on the fiscal impact study that
was provided by the applicant and then also

931
00:58:49,230 --> 00:58:52,000
peer-reviewed independently
at the request of the city,

932
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:58,458
the increase of a second hotel with 89
additional rooms generated a higher tot amount

933
00:58:58,458 --> 00:59:00,000
of revenue for the city.

934
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:05,000
and so the staff recommends that this does seem as a fiscal benefit to the city.

935
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:08,000
I do agree with the economic study.

936
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,000
the tot was the one thing that did go up.

937
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:12,000
okay.

938
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:14,000
page 9.

939
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:28,000
it says the annual general fund revenues of $2.26 million.

940
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,000
well, that economic study that I received on friday, I put it on the computer.

941
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,836
even the version that I got that was given
to me, supposedly, I thought that was from

942
00:59:40,836 --> 00:59:43,000
merlone geier or
your representatives,

943
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,000
it said there would be a $1.4 million increase.

944
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:48,000
why does it say $2.26?

945
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:50,000
I have no idea where that came from.

946
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:54,000
so, two different tables.

947
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:57,000
so eps conducted their own independent review.

948
00:59:58,000 --> 00:59:59,000
generally, different assumptions are made.

949
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,000
eps concluded with the revenue of, looks like...

950
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,000
sorry, I'm on the wrong table here.

951
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:14,380
so for dpfg, submitted by the applicant,
their assumptions concluded to the 2.

952
01:00:14,380 --> 01:00:17,000
26, general fund fiscal surplus.

953
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:21,108
okay, then that was part of the big stack
that I got yesterday that I haven't had a

954
01:00:21,108 --> 01:00:22,000
chance to look at.

955
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,000
so I saw the—let me get the—correct me if I got this wrong.

956
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:29,000
so merlone geier had one estimate, was 2.26 million.

957
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:31,000
he had it checked by another organization.

958
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,000
they came out with 1.3 million, which is—

959
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:37,000
about half of that, not quite.

960
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:41,862
I mean, even their own check said it was
like half of what they said it was going to

961
01:00:41,862 --> 01:00:42,000
be.

962
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:46,000
and my rough essential end was minus $500,000.

963
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:48,000
I think that needs a lot of work.

964
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:52,920
I mean, even the two official evaluations
that are so far apart, they're about a

965
01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:54,000
million dollars apart.

966
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:57,000
okay, page 11, please.

967
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,293
I don't know if it's explicitly on this
page or not, but I heard that the project's

968
01:01:08,293 --> 01:01:10,000
going to start
within four years,

969
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:11,000
or be finished within four years.

970
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,722
but my understanding of the way that the
da, the new da, is written is that because

971
01:01:17,722 --> 01:01:20,000
merlone geier owns
the property, I mean,

972
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,000
it's theirs, they can, you know, not exactly do everything they want with it, but if

973
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:28,858
they don't want to start the project for
another three years, they don't have to, so

974
01:01:28,858 --> 01:01:31,000
another clock
starts until that date.

975
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:31,000
is that true?

976
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:37,000
hi, tom.

977
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:40,000
sorry, what date?

978
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:46,000
no, I was just saying, they do not have to start the project if they don't want to.

979
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,000
so all these clocks don't start until that date, correct?

980
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,000
the clocks all start on the date of the development agreement.

981
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:55,000
including the four-year, they have to have it built?

982
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,000
they have to have it built in four years.

983
01:01:59,000 --> 01:01:59,000
so they have to have it built.

984
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:01,000
or they lose the benefits of it.

985
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,000
but they don't have to do anything.

986
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:04,000
okay, that's what I want clarified.

987
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:05,000
they don't have to do it.

988
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:06,000
all right.

989
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:07,000
I just want to clarify.

990
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:11,000
so that's, you know, in lieu of what's happened in the last 13 years,

991
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,000
we've been having several starts and stops, and nothing's ever happened.

992
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:25,000
excuse me, I've got to read my notes here.

993
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:33,000
go ahead and you take a few, and I'll come back to mine.

994
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:34,000
okay.

995
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:35,000
I have some questions.

996
01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:37,000
go ahead.

997
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:37,000
okay.

998
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:52,000
in the development agreement, page 4 and y, in the area y, the

999
01:02:53,000 --> 01:03:02,378
staff and the developer are indicating
that this project is a modification, minor

1000
01:03:02,378 --> 01:03:04,000
modifications.

1001
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:15,000
however, it says that it would replace the original agreement entirely.

1002
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:23,000
so there's an entire replacement that's happening versus a modification.

1003
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,000
two documents.

1004
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:41,775
some of the same provisions continue, but
the new ones were restated, so it's both

1005
01:03:41,775 --> 01:03:43,000
modified and amended.

1006
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,375
but it says, upon effective date of authorizing
ordinance, this development agreement

1007
01:03:48,375 --> 01:03:51,000
shall supersede and replace
the original agreement.

1008
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:52,000
correct.

1009
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:53,000
we don't want the original agreement in place.

1010
01:03:54,000 --> 01:04:00,494
when we have an entirely new agreement that
restates in part the 2022 agreement and

1011
01:04:00,494 --> 01:04:03,000
states anew the 2026 provisions.

1012
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:09,427
so the developer is coming because
they want modifications to their original

1013
01:04:09,427 --> 01:04:11,000
development agreement,

1014
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,000
but this is saying that it replaces the original development agreement.

1015
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:17,000
this is a replacement.

1016
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,000
yeah, that's semantics, but yes.

1017
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,000
so perhaps, but the...

1018
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:23,000
no, no, it is.

1019
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:32,000
perhaps, because the replacement of it means that it starts new.

1020
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:41,494
it's a new start, in which essentially
provisions and things could have been shifted

1021
01:04:41,494 --> 01:04:45,000
on our end to support the city.

1022
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:49,000
we had two choices in approaching this thing.

1023
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,000
we could have left the original agreement in place.

1024
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:56,000
and simply amended it in the parts we wanted amended.

1025
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:01,000
but in order to make it more readable for the public and for the council,

1026
01:05:01,000 --> 01:05:05,610
we amended and restated it so that you'd
have a single document that has the entire

1027
01:05:05,610 --> 01:05:07,000
agreement of the parties.

1028
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:09,000
it's a new agreement.

1029
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,000
it's a new agreement, yes.

1030
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,000
it's an amended and restated agreement.

1031
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,000
it's a new agreement.

1032
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:19,000
yes.

1033
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:21,000
okay.

1034
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,000
so in this, on v, in the same section,

1035
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:42,713
it says the city council hereby finds and
determines that this development agreement

1036
01:05:42,713 --> 01:05:47,000
is consistent with the objectives,
policies, general land uses,

1037
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:51,000
and programs contained in the city's general plan,

1038
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:57,333
and specific plan, as amended concurrently
herewith, is compatible with the uses

1039
01:05:57,333 --> 01:06:01,000
authorized in the village
commercial land use district,

1040
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:06,842
provides for the orderly development of the
property, and is entered into pursuant to

1041
01:06:06,842 --> 01:06:12,000
and in compliance with the requirements
of section 65867 of the development

1042
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:13,000
agreement statute.

1043
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:14,000
so this...

1044
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:26,181
verbiage is saying that the council
finds and determines that this agreement is

1045
01:06:26,181 --> 01:06:28,000
consistent, correct?

1046
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:30,000
yes.

1047
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,000
so the council finds this.

1048
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:39,000
does anywhere in this development agreement say that the staff finds it?

1049
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:40,000
no.

1050
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,585
does anywhere in this development agreement
say that merlone geier makes these

1051
01:06:45,585 --> 01:06:46,000
findings?

1052
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:47,000
no.

1053
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:53,000
this is asking for the city council.

1054
01:06:53,000 --> 01:07:00,000
so another question I have: merlone geier x partners is an llc.

1055
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,000
so we're in an agreement with an llc.

1056
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,000
and llcs, can they abandon?

1057
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:12,000
can llcs abandon?

1058
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:14,000
abandon what?

1059
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:15,000
can they abandon?

1060
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:17,000
can a group abandon an llc?

1061
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:25,000
I'm not sure I'm following your question.

1062
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:35,000
so we would be in an agreement with a group that can abandon an llc.

1063
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:36,000
so we're left with this.

1064
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:37,000
the council is left with this.

1065
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:40,000
when you say abandon, what do you mean, abandon?

1066
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,000
a group could abandon the llc.

1067
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,000
a group can dismantle an llc.

1068
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:48,000
they can close it down.

1069
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,000
just like you could a corporation or a partnership?

1070
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:55,000
any entity can terminate itself, yes.

1071
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:56,000
entity, yes.

1072
01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,000
any entity can terminate itself.

1073
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:10,000
are there provisions if they decide to terminate at any time where we are not left...?

1074
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:13,000
well, the...

1075
01:08:13,000 --> 01:08:13,000
with...

1076
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:20,336
the way it's structured, if they were
to, they could at any point terminate this

1077
01:08:20,336 --> 01:08:22,000
agreement, in effect.

1078
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:26,000
they don't have to perform to start this agreement.

1079
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:27,000
they don't have to build anything.

1080
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:31,408
but it's structured so that they can't
build the next step until they've built the

1081
01:08:31,408 --> 01:08:32,000
prior step.

1082
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:33,000
okay.

1083
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:41,019
so if the council, so if we're sued, the
city of laguna hills is sued, and in the

1084
01:08:41,019 --> 01:08:43,000
provisions it states

1085
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:50,106
that merlone geier is accepting liability,
what if merlone geier decides to abandon

1086
01:08:50,106 --> 01:08:53,000
that and they abandon
all of their obligations?

1087
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:53,000
what are we left with?

1088
01:08:54,000 --> 01:09:00,000
a lawsuit against an entity and all of its assets, including this property.

1089
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:15,000
so who, if they abandon, if they...

1090
01:09:15,000 --> 01:09:18,000
there's no such term as abandonment.

1091
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:21,000
or if they decide to close it down.

1092
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:26,000
who, if they decide to say stop...

1093
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:30,555
by terminating the entity, if that's what
you're talking about, they don't relieve

1094
01:09:30,555 --> 01:09:32,000
themselves of liabilities.

1095
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:34,000
they're still going to be responsible.

1096
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:36,000
their property is going to be responsible.

1097
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:41,014
for their liabilities, and the individual
members are going to be—the managing

1098
01:09:41,014 --> 01:09:44,000
general partner will be
responsible for their liabilities.

1099
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:45,000
what if they declare bankruptcy?

1100
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:52,000
then in what context, if they declare bankruptcy?

1101
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:59,800
I'm just saying, if they declare bankruptcy,
who handles whatever lawsuits, potential

1102
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:03,000
lawsuits, that this
project could bring?

1103
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,000
that the city...

1104
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:10,000
can you give me a factual context for this?

1105
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:12,000
give me an example of what you're talking about.

1106
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:16,000
okay, let's just say we're sued because the general plan...

1107
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:17,000
the city is sued.

1108
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:22,141
let's just say the city is sued; say we're
sued because it's not consistent with the

1109
01:10:22,141 --> 01:10:23,000
specific plan.

1110
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:27,592
say some sort of organization comes
to the city and says, I see that it doesn't

1111
01:10:27,592 --> 01:10:28,000
follow,

1112
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:32,000
and here are all of the reasons why it doesn't follow the specific plan.

1113
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,000
and I want to sue the city for not following their specific plan.

1114
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:42,823
and merlone geier's managing partner says,
okay, we are going to cover this lawsuit

1115
01:10:42,823 --> 01:10:45,000
because that's what we've done.

1116
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:50,000
what if they go bankrupt?

1117
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:53,000
then we don't defend the lawsuit.

1118
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:53,000
we concede.

1119
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:56,000
and the development agreement goes away.

1120
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:58,000
there is no development agreement.

1121
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:01,000
so the city is liable.

1122
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,000
no, the city is not liable.

1123
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,000
the example you posited doesn't have any economic damages.

1124
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:13,376
you're just asking for relief because there
was an alleged inconsistency between the

1125
01:11:13,376 --> 01:11:16,000
entitlements and,
say, the specific plan.

1126
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:16,000
yes.

1127
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:21,550
so the court determines that, yes, there
were inconsistencies because nobody's

1128
01:11:21,550 --> 01:11:24,000
defending that lawsuit
under your example.

1129
01:11:26,000 --> 01:11:29,000
well, the city, essentially.

1130
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,000
if they're gone, the city would have to...

1131
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:35,000
no, the city doesn't care about whether it's consistent.

1132
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:39,742
if they're gone and there's no more
development agreement, the city no longer cares

1133
01:11:39,742 --> 01:11:43,000
to defend its own entitlements
and development agreement.

1134
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:49,203
but if somebody decides to sue the city
over our actions and the developer isn't

1135
01:11:49,203 --> 01:11:52,000
there to absorb that,
absorb the lawsuit...

1136
01:11:55,000 --> 01:12:00,859
the lawsuit is about whether or not the
actions were valid, whether the entitlements

1137
01:12:00,859 --> 01:12:04,000
in the development
agreement were consistent,

1138
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,000
under the example you gave, were consistent with the specific plan.

1139
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:14,456
if there is no merlone geier, no one cares
because the development agreement goes

1140
01:12:14,456 --> 01:12:19,000
away, the lawsuit goes away,
so there's nothing to chase.

1141
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:24,529
if it's built or if the decisions are,
if they start building it and it's not

1142
01:12:24,529 --> 01:12:27,000
consistent, I'm just
saying, if they serve

1143
01:12:27,000 --> 01:12:32,452
if they're in the process of building it
and it's not consistent in their property,

1144
01:12:32,452 --> 01:12:36,000
if somebody is successful
in stopping the development,

1145
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:40,179
they have to stop the development, whether
they're in bankruptcy or not. But the

1146
01:12:40,179 --> 01:12:43,000
city—you could see the city
doesn't have any exposure.

1147
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:49,570
how does the city not have any exposure?
The city is an entitling agency. You've

1148
01:12:49,570 --> 01:12:53,000
granted—presuming after
tonight, assume that you grant these

1149
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:55,000
entitlements and the development agreement.

1150
01:12:55,000 --> 01:13:02,162
that's all you've done. If somebody along
the way attacks the project and they can't

1151
01:13:02,162 --> 01:13:06,000
build, then they can't
build. The city hasn't

1152
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:12,363
lost anything other than—well, nothing
in this case, because I would like to ask

1153
01:13:12,363 --> 01:13:13,000
counsel:

1154
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:19,000
can somebody hypothetically sue the city over this project?

1155
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:25,131
so the suit against the city, typically the
way a challenge is made for consistency,

1156
01:13:25,131 --> 01:13:29,000
this project included, is
somebody would seek a writ.

1157
01:13:29,000 --> 01:13:33,539
a writ is a request to a judge to reverse
a decision of, in this case, the city

1158
01:13:33,539 --> 01:13:34,000
council.

1159
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,000
they would go and they would ask for a writ if a court found an inconsistency.

1160
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,000
the court could issue a judgment that says, yes, I reverse the decision.

1161
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,000
but I agree with mr.

1162
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:43,000
clark.

1163
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,000
it wouldn't be a monetary case against the city.

1164
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,000
it would be a writ to try to get the decision reversed.

1165
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:50,000
okay.

1166
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,000
and then who is the responsible party?

1167
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:56,921
so when they say, who made the decisions
to say it's consistent, who do they say

1168
01:13:56,921 --> 01:13:58,000
makes those decisions?

1169
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:01,000
well, it's the city, but the city acts through the city council.

1170
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:02,000
yes, yes.

1171
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:03,000
okay.

1172
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:05,000
thank you.

1173
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:07,000
okay, dave, back to you.

1174
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:10,264
yeah, I was reading through two of the
questions I'd sort of already asked, so I

1175
01:14:10,264 --> 01:14:11,000
won't go with one of them.

1176
01:14:12,000 --> 01:14:15,000
could you turn to page 25, please?

1177
01:14:18,000 --> 01:14:19,000
okay.

1178
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:25,000
okay, this page says that, you know, uvsp development standards consistency.

1179
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:29,229
I contend, and I've contended this for six
years, as long as I've been on the council,

1180
01:14:29,229 --> 01:14:31,000
this project has
never met the uvsp,

1181
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,000
the uvsp.

1182
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:39,298
because the uvsp demands that most of
the property be retail or business and only

1183
01:14:39,298 --> 01:14:41,000
part of it be residential.

1184
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:42,000
and that is absolutely not the case.

1185
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:47,000
and everybody seems to bypass that and forget it doesn't meet the uvsp at all.

1186
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:54,529
and the uvsp also said the changes from
one revision to another can only add 200

1187
01:14:54,529 --> 01:14:56,000
units for housing.

1188
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:57,000
and this is adding 1,500.

1189
01:14:57,000 --> 01:15:00,000
I just wanted to point that out again.

1190
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,706
it's probably falling on deaf ears because,
like it has in the past, it's never met

1191
01:15:02,706 --> 01:15:03,000
the uvsp.

1192
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,000
the rest of my questions are a presentation.

1193
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,000
if you want to.

1194
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:08,000
yes.

1195
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:11,000
the 160,000 square feet of retail, does that include the retail that already exists?

1196
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:12,000
so does that include the nordstrom rack?

1197
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:38,000
yes.

1198
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:44,722
it's 140,000 of new retail, 163,000 of
which 140,000 is new, which includes the

1199
01:15:44,722 --> 01:15:46,000
nordstrom rack.

1200
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,000
so 140,000 includes the nordstrom rack.

1201
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:49,000
so it's not new retail.

1202
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,000
may I clarify?

1203
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:57,387
so the 140,000 of new retail includes the
new nordstrom rack building, not including

1204
01:15:57,387 --> 01:16:00,000
the demolition of the old
nordstrom rack building.

1205
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:01,000
okay.

1206
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:03,000
so what is the total of the nordstrom rack?

1207
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:09,000
with the nordstrom, so the total retail—can you pull up a slide that shows this?

1208
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:18,000
right there.

1209
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:23,000
so total square footage, existing and new, would be 163,215 square feet.

1210
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:25,000
and then, let me see, the new, I'm not sure which slide; let's see.

1211
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:35,000
please be patient.

1212
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:38,000
what did you say?

1213
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,000
I want to give the exact number.

1214
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:46,000
I apologize.

1215
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:48,000
there are quite a bit of slides.

1216
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:51,000
the nordstrom rack.

1217
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:55,800
you want the exact square footage of the
nordstrom rack building, or are you looking

1218
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:57,000
for total new retail?

1219
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,000
I'm asking the nordstrom rack, what amount

1220
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:03,000
andy, is that anchor 1 or anchor 2?

1221
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,000
anchor 2.

1222
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:17,000
the new building would be 35,000 square feet.

1223
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:18,000
it's 35,000 square feet.

1224
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:34,000
and is that, so you're saying that's part of the new, or is it considered new?

1225
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:37,000
oh, so they're anchor 1?

1226
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,000
okay, so I'm sorry, 25,000 square feet.

1227
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:45,760
okay, so 25,000 square feet of that is
considered new, even though it's not new,

1228
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:49,000
because nordstrom rack
has always been there.

1229
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:56,000
so would that be considered in the new income that's coming in, or...

1230
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:58,000
I'm a little confused.

1231
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:04,105
if the nordstrom rack is being considered
in this, wouldn't it be a subtraction of

1232
01:18:04,105 --> 01:18:05,000
the amounts?

1233
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:09,000
wouldn't there be some sort of subtraction versus...?

1234
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:10,000
we can give you the net.

1235
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,000
so we can find out the existing, if you want the exact number,

1236
01:18:14,000 --> 01:18:18,000
we can find the retail square footage for the existing nordstrom rack,

1237
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:22,000
and we can deduct it from the 140,000 if you want that number.

1238
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:24,000
I would just have to look that up.

1239
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:25,000
yes.

1240
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:30,000
perhaps, possibly the applicant may also have that information.

1241
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,809
so according to my wonderful principal
planner with institutional knowledge, the

1242
01:18:45,809 --> 01:18:48,000
existing nordstrom
rack is 35,000 square feet.

1243
01:18:48,000 --> 01:18:49,000
that's correct.

1244
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,577
35,000 square feet, and the new one will
be 25,000 square—28,000 square feet. Okay,

1245
01:18:54,577 --> 01:18:56,000
so how much is
really new retail?

1246
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:57,000
132 is the delta.

1247
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:23,000
according to my finance director, who is good at math.

1248
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:29,000
approximately 135,000 square feet.

1249
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,000
okay.

1250
01:19:55,000 --> 01:20:13,000
okay, on page 39, it says if there are any changes.

1251
01:20:13,000 --> 01:20:17,009
can you please just kind of go over, in
the development agreement on page 39, the

1252
01:20:17,009 --> 01:20:18,000
operating agreement?

1253
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:24,000
can I get an understanding of that?

1254
01:20:24,000 --> 01:20:25,000
what section is that?

1255
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:26,000
it's on page 39.

1256
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:26,000
it's 13.5.

1257
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:02,000
yeah, I'm looking through it right now.

1258
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:22,500
it's simply asking that whenever there are
ministerial clarifications to be requested

1259
01:21:22,500 --> 01:21:29,000
under the development agreement, that it go
through this operating memoranda process.

1260
01:21:33,000 --> 01:21:35,000
they're non-substantive procedural issues.

1261
01:21:36,000 --> 01:21:41,000
okay, so shouldn't certain things be brought in front of the council?

1262
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:48,838
well, the council, by virtue of this language,
would be delegating that authority for

1263
01:21:48,838 --> 01:21:52,000
things like material
changes in fees or costs,

1264
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:57,000
increase in density or intensity, or things that don't count.

1265
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,000
it's just inconsequential processing.

1266
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:04,000
and you're delegating staff to deal with those.

1267
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:09,430
so certain things—it could technically,
says the city attorney shall be authorized

1268
01:22:09,430 --> 01:22:14,000
upon consultation with the approval
of the owner to determine whether

1269
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:18,000
a requested clarification may be effectuated pursuant to this section,

1270
01:22:18,000 --> 01:22:23,586
whether the requested clarification is
of such a character to constitute either a

1271
01:22:23,586 --> 01:22:28,000
substantive change or an amendment
to the development agreement,

1272
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,000
which requires compliance with the provisions

1273
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:30,689
of section

1274
01:22:30,689 --> 01:22:36,000
13.2 of the development agreement, so
can you just clarify this for everyone?

1275
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:44,219
that the city attorney is authorized to
determine whether the requested clarification

1276
01:22:44,219 --> 01:22:50,000
is eligible for a minor procedural
clarification under this section, or whether

1277
01:22:50,000 --> 01:22:53,813
it needs to go back to the council, so
the city attorney makes that determination,

1278
01:22:53,813 --> 01:22:54,000
yes.

1279
01:22:55,000 --> 01:23:00,572
so what if our city attorney determines
that something isn't, and it never goes in

1280
01:23:00,572 --> 01:23:02,000
front of the council?

1281
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:04,000
then it doesn't.

1282
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:05,000
then it doesn't.

1283
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:06,000
then it doesn't.

1284
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:07,000
then it doesn't.

1285
01:23:07,000 --> 01:23:12,000
okay.

1286
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:14,000
okay.

1287
01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:33,000
let's see.

1288
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:40,000
can you go through section 15 and what section 15 states?

1289
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:01,000
you want an explanation of what 15 describes?

1290
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,000
yeah.

1291
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:10,000
it's a mutual assurance kind of provision that says that the city and the owner,

1292
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,000
that the agreement is for the benefit of the city and the owner,

1293
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:19,569
and the city won't take any actions that
are intended to circumvent the development

1294
01:24:19,569 --> 01:24:20,000
agreement.

1295
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:30,582
so the city, what happens if after this
development agreement we find some huge

1296
01:24:30,582 --> 01:24:32,000
issues with this?

1297
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:33,000
as in?

1298
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:35,000
I don't know.

1299
01:24:35,000 --> 01:24:45,832
just hypothetically, what happens if the
owner decides to, I don't know, if something

1300
01:24:45,832 --> 01:24:48,000
negative happens,

1301
01:24:49,000 --> 01:24:51,000
what assurances do we have if something?

1302
01:24:51,000 --> 01:24:56,832
well, if it's a breach or a violation of
the agreement, there are separate provisions

1303
01:24:56,832 --> 01:24:58,000
to enforce those.

1304
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:04,068
if you're talking about the developer, the
owner just saying, I'm not interested in

1305
01:25:04,068 --> 01:25:05,000
doing this anymore,

1306
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:12,000
they essentially have that ability to do it.

1307
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:14,000
okay.

1308
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:14,000
okay.

1309
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:24,694
what about, I mean, some things that we've
encountered in the past, which was the

1310
01:25:24,694 --> 01:25:28,000
mall property looked
like a blight for a number

1311
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:40,475
of years. We had issues with homeless; we
had a lot of issues on that property site.

1312
01:25:40,475 --> 01:25:43,000
what can the city

1313
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:47,000
do? We've tried in the past to bring this up, and

1314
01:25:48,000 --> 01:25:53,000
I defer to the city attorney on city enforcement efforts.

1315
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:56,000
so that's not part of the development agreement?

1316
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:58,000
no.

1317
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:00,000
it's not an operating agreement.

1318
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:01,000
it's a development agreement.

1319
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:08,925
I understood the last development agreement
had provisions that ensured that the

1320
01:26:08,925 --> 01:26:11,000
property always looked nice.

1321
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,000
well, if it did, it didn't come out of this one, and I don't recall...

1322
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:21,000
such a provision.

1323
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,000
I guess, do you want to respond?

1324
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:42,110
well, the development agreement statutes,
I'm not aware of anything that operates as

1325
01:26:42,110 --> 01:26:45,000
a, that functions as an
operating agreement in this either.

1326
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:48,000
there are remedies if property falls below a certain standard.

1327
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,000
that's public nuisance and those basic remedies.

1328
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:56,000
and there's also the site plan and all the entitlement documents that we can enforce.

1329
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:59,288
as far as the development agreement,
the development agreement really is an

1330
01:26:59,288 --> 01:27:01,000
implementation of
the project document.

1331
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:06,000
and enforcement of the development agreement can happen by breach.

1332
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:08,000
we can do a periodic review.

1333
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,729
so there are ways to enforce a development
agreement itself, although I don't see

1334
01:27:11,729 --> 01:27:15,000
this development agreement as
operating more as an operating agreement.

1335
01:27:15,000 --> 01:27:20,000
it's more of how does the project get built, constructed, and to the finish line.

1336
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:23,000
okay.

1337
01:27:23,000 --> 01:27:28,832
another question that I have is that this
owner has the right to sell, mortgage, and

1338
01:27:28,832 --> 01:27:33,000
assign or transfer the development
agreement to any and all.

1339
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:37,000
how do we make sure that...

1340
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:46,000
that whoever they decide, whatever developer they decide to build this,

1341
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:53,000
that it's going to be built and it's going to be a good property owner.

1342
01:27:53,000 --> 01:27:55,000
I mean, here's an example.

1343
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:01,000
laguna niguel has 5,000 units, and the buildings are falling apart.

1344
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:07,000
and pieces of land were sold off to different entities.

1345
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:13,000
and there's a lot of problems afterwards, but there's bad actors everywhere.

1346
01:28:13,000 --> 01:28:18,154
how do you deal with that when it says
that they can sell to whoever and we don't

1347
01:28:18,154 --> 01:28:20,000
know what we're dealing with?

1348
01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:25,073
well, the benefits and the burdens of the
development agreement run with the land, so

1349
01:28:25,073 --> 01:28:28,000
any subsequent owner
would also be subject to it.

1350
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:30,000
okay.

1351
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:30,000
okay.

1352
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:45,000
I have a question for staff.

1353
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:55,000
so one of the first pages of the uvsp, I believe it's six,

1354
01:28:56,000 --> 01:29:00,000
says the primary goals of the urban village specific plan are quoted twice and

1355
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:02,000
well, this doesn't say it.

1356
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:03,000
it's actually quoted twice.

1357
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:08,615
this verbiage is quoted twice, emphasizing
the importance of this material for

1358
01:29:08,615 --> 01:29:12,000
elected officials and
city employees to follow.

1359
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:18,471
so it says, and it says the primary goals
of the urban village specific plan are as

1360
01:29:18,471 --> 01:29:19,000
follows:

1361
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:23,811
to encourage and facilitate new uses in
the area, to create new pathways to open

1362
01:29:23,811 --> 01:29:27,000
spaces, and to add landscaping
to existing sidewalks,

1363
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,000
to foster a pedestrian-friendly environment, to create

1364
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:38,000
an identity for the area through the use of entry features and wayfinding signs,

1365
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:44,926
consistent landscaping and street furniture;
to facilitate private investment and

1366
01:29:44,926 --> 01:29:51,000
development of desirable planned activity
nodes; to take full commercial and market

1367
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:57,000
advantage of the urban village's central location in the saddleback valley.

1368
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:03,765
to increase the employment opportunities,
tax revenues, and ensure the long-term

1369
01:30:03,765 --> 01:30:06,000
viability of the urban village.

1370
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:12,113
and also says to provide the framework for
a public-private partnership to implement

1371
01:30:12,113 --> 01:30:14,000
the goals of the specific plan.

1372
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:23,000
so it says there's three, number five and number six.

1373
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,000
how does five and six

1374
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:28,000
apply to this project?

1375
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:39,283
so, to take full commercial and market
advantage of the urban village's central

1376
01:30:39,283 --> 01:30:40,000
location.

1377
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:48,324
and to increase employment opportunities,
tax revenues, and to ensure long-term

1378
01:30:48,324 --> 01:30:49,000
viability.

1379
01:31:01,000 --> 01:31:02,000
I apologize, councilmember.

1380
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:04,000
can you confirm those pages again?

1381
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:26,000
it's in the executive summary.

1382
01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:30,000
mm-hmm.

1383
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:37,000
and which items were you asking for clarification?

1384
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:45,000
how does this project reflect numbers five and six?

1385
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:50,494
so, to take full commercial and market
advantage of the urban village's central

1386
01:31:50,494 --> 01:31:52,000
location in the
saddleback valley.

1387
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:56,000
so this project was developed with market conditions in mind.

1388
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:01,587
so most definitely a developer would
not develop a property without conducting

1389
01:32:01,587 --> 01:32:03,000
appropriate feasibility.

1390
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:04,000
so as to...

1391
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:11,146
the central location—I mean, I think having
the 68 acres of vacant land hasn't been

1392
01:32:11,146 --> 01:32:14,000
serving the saddleback
valley for the last few

1393
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:17,925
years, and having a new development with
new retail, new residential, especially in

1394
01:32:17,925 --> 01:32:21,000
this housing market right now
where there's a housing deficiency,

1395
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:25,207
would be serving the full commercial and
market advantage based on the current market

1396
01:32:25,207 --> 01:32:26,000
conditions right now.

1397
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:29,000
so how does that follow?

1398
01:32:29,000 --> 01:32:32,000
so what you're saying, so I'm asking how it follows.

1399
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:33,000
what you're saying is

1400
01:32:34,000 --> 01:32:42,000
does it say anywhere in this document, the uvsp,

1401
01:32:45,000 --> 01:32:51,693
that market conditions can alter and dictate
and allow for movement and bending of

1402
01:32:51,693 --> 01:32:53,000
these documents?

1403
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:57,000
no, it wouldn't say that.

1404
01:32:57,000 --> 01:32:57,000
okay.

1405
01:32:58,000 --> 01:32:59,000
all right.

1406
01:32:59,000 --> 01:32:59,000
thank you.

1407
01:32:59,000 --> 01:33:02,000
another question I have is,

1408
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:11,442
it states in here that the land use concept
plan provides a conceptual basis for

1409
01:33:11,442 --> 01:33:17,000
locations where new development
might occur within the urban village.

1410
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:24,667
it includes the following anticipated
new land uses: 183,000 square feet of new

1411
01:33:24,667 --> 01:33:31,000
retail development oriented around
the new main street pedestrian promenade

1412
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:41,494
a new 250-room hotel oriented to the 5
freeway, mixed-use development that could

1413
01:33:41,494 --> 01:33:45,000
include up to 200
dwelling units.

1414
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:57,010
how does this plan follow the executive
summary, which is the primary goal of this

1415
01:33:57,010 --> 01:33:58,000
document?

1416
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:02,000
which is highlighted twice.

1417
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:04,000
can you go back to that document, please?

1418
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:12,222
so that paragraph you were reading, which
says the land use concept plan provides a

1419
01:34:12,222 --> 01:34:16,000
conceptual basis for the locations
where new development may

1420
01:34:16,000 --> 01:34:19,000
occur, and then it gives a sample of what type of development could occur.

1421
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:22,000
and then I believe, as part of the 2022 entitlement,

1422
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:27,439
there was a review conducted independently
to discuss whether or not these provisions

1423
01:34:27,439 --> 01:34:30,000
here were considered
a land use control,

1424
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:35,000
and it was determined that these were not, that these were considered potential for

1425
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:39,652
a future development scenario within the
uvsp, but did not describe that development

1426
01:34:39,652 --> 01:34:41,000
capacity as a land use control.

1427
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:46,014
so this is an example given for studying
purposes of the uvsp, but not exactly

1428
01:34:46,014 --> 01:34:49,000
determined to be a regulatory
requirement for the project.

1429
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:51,000
okay.

1430
01:34:51,000 --> 01:35:00,000
so in our general plan, let's see.

1431
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:21,737
on lu-28, it says urban village specific
plan, and it says development potential

1432
01:35:21,737 --> 01:35:25,000
total of 200 units.

1433
01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:32,000
so it seems like those two, so just out of curiosity, how do you

1434
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:36,750
so in the context of the general plan and
of the land use element, this is a section

1435
01:35:36,750 --> 01:35:38,000
entitled future study areas,

1436
01:35:39,000 --> 01:35:44,000
which provides the context that this is considered a potential opportunity for this,

1437
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:47,353
and it was a sample of what could be
developed but not, again, considered a maximum

1438
01:35:47,353 --> 01:35:48,000
for development.

1439
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:57,207
just out of curiosity, who makes the
decisions on whether something is followed in

1440
01:35:57,207 --> 01:35:58,000
the city?

1441
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:03,069
so I would consider that the city council
approving the riata project in 2012 at

1442
01:36:03,069 --> 01:36:07,000
oakbrook village, as well as
the 2022 entitlement for the mall

1443
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:11,000
granting up to 1,500 units, the sixth-cycle housing element establishing the site.

1444
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:17,368
as having 1,163 units in oakbrook plaza,
subsequently at the beginning of the year at

1445
01:36:17,368 --> 01:36:18,000
250 units.

1446
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:20,000
so the council did approve that this was consistent.

1447
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,000
so this is the council's approval.

1448
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:25,000
it's the council that makes that decision.

1449
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:26,000
correct.

1450
01:36:26,000 --> 01:36:27,000
it's the council.

1451
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:27,000
yes.

1452
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:34,405
so all of those suggestions, as you mentioned,
it's really up to the council elected

1453
01:36:34,405 --> 01:36:37,000
body to make those
determinations.

1454
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:37,000
all right.

1455
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:38,000
thank you.

1456
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:39,000
dave?

1457
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:45,000
I take a lot of exception to that last commentary.

1458
01:36:45,000 --> 01:36:48,000
we have a document that says the limit is 200.

1459
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:51,000
we're hand-waving, "oh, no, it doesn't really mean 200."

1460
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:52,000
it's just an example.

1461
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:56,724
what the heck do we have these documents
for, then, if we can make it up as we go

1462
01:36:56,724 --> 01:36:57,000
along?

1463
01:36:57,000 --> 01:37:01,000
if you get a requirements document, the requirements document is requirements.

1464
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:02,000
I think we're debating now.

1465
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:03,000
are we asking questions?

1466
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:05,000
yeah, I'm asking questions.

1467
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:08,000
why do they keep saying it meets the uvsp, and it doesn't?

1468
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:11,000
I just point out, what was it, page number 25?

1469
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:13,000
25, robert, if you would, please.

1470
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:25,800
I'm objecting that the recommendation is
that we, you know, approve this thing based

1471
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:27,000
on it meets the uvsp.

1472
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:28,000
it does not.

1473
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:29,000
it never has.

1474
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:33,000
and to say that these numbers in the uvsp, which are written in black and white,

1475
01:37:34,000 --> 01:37:37,287
councilman pezold just read it off to you
in two different places at least, it says

1476
01:37:37,287 --> 01:37:38,000
this is the limit.

1477
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:40,000
but, oh, no, we're hand-waving.

1478
01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:41,000
it doesn't really count.

1479
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:42,000
we can do whatever we want, you know.

1480
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:43,000
it's ridiculous.

1481
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:44,000
why even have documents?

1482
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,000
just throw it up in the air, and every time we come in, we'll decide on it.

1483
01:37:49,000 --> 01:37:51,000
why do we approve the uvsp

1484
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:51,000
when it doesn't?

1485
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:52,000
that's the question.

1486
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:52,000
thank you.

1487
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:53,000
I apologize, councilman.

1488
01:37:54,000 --> 01:37:54,000
can you repeat your question?

1489
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:15,000
why does staff say that it meets the uvsp when it does not, as

1490
01:38:15,000 --> 01:38:18,000
pointed out in two examples that councilman pezold just read?

1491
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:22,810
so I would largely say that the way the
uvsp is written is also written very much

1492
01:38:22,810 --> 01:38:24,000
more as a guideline,

1493
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:28,110
where it provides guidelines for development
but not as much regulatory control that

1494
01:38:28,110 --> 01:38:31,000
you would see in potentially
other types of specific plans.

1495
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:35,292
so the uvsp was written to provide maximum
flexibility of uses and development within

1496
01:38:35,292 --> 01:38:36,000
the plan area.

1497
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:39,000
I'm sorry, but that's absurd.

1498
01:38:39,000 --> 01:38:43,525
I've written requirements for missiles and
spacecraft, and you put down a requirement,

1499
01:38:43,525 --> 01:38:46,000
and it had better darn
well be met, and not you

1500
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:49,000
wishy-washy would have rockets running into each other.

1501
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:51,000
all right, I have one simple question, hopefully.

1502
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:53,000
I know it's a repeat a bit.

1503
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:55,000
I want one simple answer.

1504
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:59,000
when the whole thing is finished, how much retail is there in square feet?

1505
01:39:01,000 --> 01:39:02,000
I don't want to know new.

1506
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:02,000
I don't want to know old.

1507
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:04,000
I want to know, when it's finished, what's the total?

1508
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:06,000
163,000.

1509
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:06,000
thank you.

1510
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:07,000
so we only have 163.

1511
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:08,000
thank you.

1512
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:09,000
so I see in a2.

1513
01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:14,000
I guess it goes into more specific technical studies.

1514
01:39:29,000 --> 01:39:35,710
so, fiscal analysis: the proposed urban
village specific plan defines the development

1515
01:39:35,710 --> 01:39:41,000
capacity of the planning area
based primarily on land availability,

1516
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:43,000
traffic, and parking limitations.

1517
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:47,810
the development capacity represents the
additional development intensity that could

1518
01:39:47,810 --> 01:39:51,000
be added to the existing
base within the urban village.

1519
01:39:51,000 --> 01:39:57,000
the plan defines the future development capacity by land-use category.

1520
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:04,942
the following limitations are established
in the plan for incremental development

1521
01:40:04,942 --> 01:40:07,000
above the existing base.

1522
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:08,000
retail: 183,000 square feet.

1523
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:09,000
hotel: 250 rooms.

1524
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:09,000
residential: 200 units.

1525
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:11,000
medical office: 138,000 square feet.

1526
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:12,000
general office: 380,000 square feet.

1527
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:35,189
it states that additional residential
population resulting from the development of

1528
01:40:35,189 --> 01:40:39,000
approximately 200
ownership units.

1529
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:51,000
I'm just, I mean, I'm just wondering, when you read that analysis,

1530
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:58,000
are your thoughts still that it's something that can be moved and fluid?

1531
01:41:00,000 --> 01:41:01,000
I apologize, councilmember.

1532
01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:02,000
I don't know what document you're in.

1533
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:07,000
what section? Because I see a2, but it's not a2 in the uvsp.

1534
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:15,000
so which document are we looking at?

1535
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:17,000
appendix a, technical studies.

1536
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:27,000
to the ceqa memo?

1537
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:47,000
I will look for...

1538
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:07,000
I believe that's in the uvsp.

1539
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:11,000
I will get back to you.

1540
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:18,000
any other questions of staff?

1541
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:20,000
okay.

1542
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:26,650
I'm sure that, you know, let me just add
right now that if there are questions of

1543
01:42:26,650 --> 01:42:30,000
staff during deliberations,
we normally do that.

1544
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:34,000
so we don't have to exhaust every little thing right now.

1545
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:39,000
well, I will ask one.

1546
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:41,000
oh, I'm sorry.

1547
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:41,000
you're okay.

1548
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:42,000
go ahead.

1549
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:42,000
no.

1550
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:43,000
josh, go ahead.

1551
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:44,000
no.

1552
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:45,000
thank you, chair.

1553
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:47,000
all right.

1554
01:42:47,000 --> 01:42:50,000
I just had a few questions for staff.

1555
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:54,596
I just wanted to get some clarifications
just from my own knowledge around a few

1556
01:42:54,596 --> 01:42:55,000
things.

1557
01:42:57,000 --> 01:43:05,000
the july 10 eps analysis projects approximately $3.83 million in general fund revenue.

1558
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:11,493
$2.43 million in annual expenditures, and
approximately $1.4 million in annual net

1559
01:43:11,493 --> 01:43:15,000
surplus. I just want to ask staff
if they can confirm that these

1560
01:43:15,000 --> 01:43:20,962
are now the controlling fiscal figures
for our consideration tonight. Thank you,

1561
01:43:20,962 --> 01:43:27,000
councilmember sweeney. Are you referring
to what's listed in table 1 with the eps

1562
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:28,000
document?

1563
01:43:28,000 --> 01:43:37,000
so I wouldn't say that either one is more correct than the other.

1564
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:40,617
so when you put together these fiscal impact
studies, the assumptions and methodology

1565
01:43:40,617 --> 01:43:41,000
can vary.

1566
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:47,000
but I would say, from the city, from a
conservative standpoint, this would be the eps

1567
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:50,000
study where we would find
the conservative numbers.

1568
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:51,000
okay.

1569
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:51,000
all right.

1570
01:43:52,000 --> 01:43:52,000
thank you.

1571
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:56,000
the next couple questions I have just revolve around public safety.

1572
01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:03,842
because the analysis with eps assigns
approximately $1.36 million to public safety as

1573
01:44:03,842 --> 01:44:09,000
an annual expenditure. But have we
consulted with the sheriff's department,

1574
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:16,064
because how they got that number was just
using a per-person number and just kind of

1575
01:44:16,064 --> 01:44:18,000
extracted it out, so...

1576
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:23,439
have we consulted with the orange county
sheriff as to how much more resources it

1577
01:44:23,439 --> 01:44:27,000
would take over there,
and if that $1.3 million would

1578
01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:29,000
cover the additional resources?

1579
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:39,231
sir, if you're asking if we would need
more deputies because the population will

1580
01:44:39,231 --> 01:44:40,000
increase over time.

1581
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:41,000
yeah.

1582
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:45,000
population, it looks like, will increase slightly over many years.

1583
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:51,000
and we base our staffing on a workload analysis.

1584
01:44:51,000 --> 01:44:55,000
so initially, we wouldn't need any.

1585
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:59,800
but in years to come, we would have to
analyze our workload and then potentially add

1586
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:01,000
a couple of deputies.

1587
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:03,000
years and years to come.

1588
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:05,000
potentially over time, then that's

1589
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:10,610
that number should be sufficient to cover
the number of deputies that would need to

1590
01:45:10,610 --> 01:45:12,000
be additional over there.

1591
01:45:12,000 --> 01:45:14,000
based on how many more calls for service we get.

1592
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:14,000
yeah.

1593
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:15,000
okay.

1594
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:15,000
things like that.

1595
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:16,000
all right.

1596
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:17,000
very good.

1597
01:45:20,000 --> 01:45:25,000
for transparency, I serve as the chair for the orange county fire authority board,

1598
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:29,555
but I'm asking this in my role tonight as
a member of the planning agency and city

1599
01:45:29,555 --> 01:45:30,000
council.

1600
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:37,136
has ocfa conducted a project-specific
deployment and emergency call analysis for the

1601
01:45:37,136 --> 01:45:43,000
full project, including the 1,457
residential units, 239 hotel rooms,

1602
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:47,590
the commercial uses, the village park
events, and the affordable senior housing

1603
01:45:47,590 --> 01:45:48,000
building?

1604
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:53,000
so this project was routed to ocfa for review.

1605
01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:57,511
so their review as part of this level is
very much a preliminary conceptual review to

1606
01:45:57,511 --> 01:45:59,000
come up with
conditions of approval.

1607
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:04,283
a more in-depth review does happen after
entitlement, where they are required to go

1608
01:46:04,283 --> 01:46:08,000
through, and the applicant will submit
the proper documentation for them

1609
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:09,000
to finish those analyses.

1610
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:10,000
okay.

1611
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:11,000
all right.

1612
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:12,000
thank you.

1613
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:18,000
my next question is, I have to go back to octa and hotel one.

1614
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:25,382
octa's july 13 letter requests that the
avenida de carlota frontage remain surface

1615
01:46:25,382 --> 01:46:32,000
parking or landscaping with adequate setbacks,
and they had mentioned that in section

1616
01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:38,765
12.4 that it be revised before entitlements
are approved, so does staff believe that

1617
01:46:38,765 --> 01:46:44,000
the proposed location of hotel
one or pad 4 conflicts with either

1618
01:46:44,000 --> 01:46:48,000
of the interchange alternatives currently under consideration?

1619
01:46:49,000 --> 01:46:54,000
so the current site plan conflicts with the alternative that octa is moving,

1620
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:58,000
has informed the city that that's the one they would like to move forward with.

1621
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,000
but I would look to joe to provide more context.

1622
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:02,000
thank you.

1623
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:04,000
I'm happy to provide more context.

1624
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:14,000
so in april, two and a half months ago, the city was notified in a meeting that

1625
01:47:15,000 --> 01:47:20,963
no longer were two alternatives being
considered for the el toro road and I-5

1626
01:47:20,963 --> 01:47:26,000
interchange project. Up until
then, the meetings that we had been

1627
01:47:26,000 --> 01:47:31,162
having with octa were evaluating two
construction alternatives, one which was a

1628
01:47:31,162 --> 01:47:36,000
braided bridge concept that connects
with plaza lane at carlota, the other

1629
01:47:37,000 --> 01:47:37,000
one of which was

1630
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:43,851
a flyover bridge that would connect from
the el toro road off-ramp into lake forest

1631
01:47:43,851 --> 01:47:49,000
at rockfield boulevard, by lucille's
barbecue restaurant and the goodwill

1632
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:49,000
store.

1633
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:55,000
and for months, and even, and this is nothing new, the

1634
01:47:55,000 --> 01:48:02,000
city council was given a presentation in 2023 by octa of those two alternatives.

1635
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:07,000
and so the conversation has been, while the environmental process has been

1636
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:14,171
moving along, a discussion of if either
one of those alternatives provides any

1637
01:48:14,171 --> 01:48:19,000
traffic relief to the motorists
looking to get off at el toro

1638
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:21,000
road and enter into lake forest.

1639
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:27,521
so in april, we were informed by octa
that the flyover alternative that was being

1640
01:48:27,521 --> 01:48:31,000
considered as part of a
public environmental review

1641
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:36,000
process that is still ongoing, where no decisions have been made, was off the table.

1642
01:48:37,000 --> 01:48:44,904
and it was portrayed to us that there was
now an urgency to focus on alternative 1,

1643
01:48:44,904 --> 01:48:47,000
which is the off-ramp,

1644
01:48:48,000 --> 01:48:52,000
braided off-ramp concept that connects plaza lane and carlota.

1645
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:59,000
that alternative does conflict with hotel one.

1646
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:05,631
however, in recognition of that, city staff
has been working diligently with merlone

1647
01:49:05,631 --> 01:49:11,000
geier partners and the ad hoc
committee to craft language in section

1648
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:16,000
12.4 of the development agreement that contemplates removing the hotel out of the way

1649
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:22,000
if, in fact, octa settles on an alternative that conflicts with the hotel.

1650
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:25,000
so that, in my opinion, is where we're at.

1651
01:49:26,000 --> 01:49:26,000
okay.

1652
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:33,351
and hotel one was the one that was supposed
to be where it was going to try to be

1653
01:49:33,351 --> 01:49:35,000
completed by the 2028

1654
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:36,000
olympics, correct?

1655
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:43,150
that's what we've been informed by merlone
geier partners, with their potential hotel

1656
01:49:43,150 --> 01:49:44,000
operator, yes.

1657
01:49:45,000 --> 01:49:51,885
and with octa, would that then delay hotel
one so then there would be no opportunity

1658
01:49:51,885 --> 01:49:55,000
to have it completed
for the olympics?

1659
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:57,000
my understanding is that

1660
01:49:59,000 --> 01:50:02,000
we would work with octa.

1661
01:50:03,000 --> 01:50:07,000
and my understanding is, if you were to approve this project tonight,

1662
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:11,666
there would be a meeting of the minds to
figure out how to work with and around that

1663
01:50:11,666 --> 01:50:12,000
issue.

1664
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:13,000
okay.

1665
01:50:13,000 --> 01:50:15,000
and so I haven't had that.

1666
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:18,000
I'm not privy to exactly how that will work out, but I

1667
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:22,670
know there's language in the da that
contemplates that, and that would likely need to

1668
01:50:22,670 --> 01:50:23,000
occur.

1669
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:23,000
okay.

1670
01:50:26,000 --> 01:50:26,000
all right.

1671
01:50:29,000 --> 01:50:31,000
josh, I've got the drawing here.

1672
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:35,000
if you'd like to look at it, I can bring it over and show you.

1673
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,000
we actually, do you need to see it?

1674
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:43,000
no, I don't need to see it because I know where it is.

1675
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:48,000
may I ask a question about this?

1676
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:48,000
wait a minute.

1677
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:51,000
he's still, I have questions going on here.

1678
01:50:52,000 --> 01:50:59,402
yeah, a few more questions just quickly
about the hotel, because the eps assumes a

1679
01:50:59,402 --> 01:51:05,000
119-room residence inn at a
$178 average daily rate and a 120-

1680
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:12,240
room ac marriott at a $260 average daily
rate, both at 80% occupancy, producing

1681
01:51:12,240 --> 01:51:16,000
approximately $1.5
million in annual tot.

1682
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:20,000
are both of those hotel brands contractually committed,

1683
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:23,000
or are they just modeling assumptions at this point?

1684
01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:25,000
do we know?

1685
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:29,000
I think that would be a question for the developer.

1686
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:29,000
for mgp?

1687
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:30,000
yes.

1688
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:31,000
that's out of my depth here.

1689
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:32,000
I'll have to refer to someone else.

1690
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,000
I'm not sure who exactly, but someone else.

1691
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:37,000
the questions for the developer are coming up next.

1692
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:38,000
okay, yeah.

1693
01:51:38,000 --> 01:51:38,000
I'll save that one.

1694
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:40,000
for staff, though, can you tell me...

1695
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:55,823
what residential construction or occupancy
can the city stop if a required hotel or

1696
01:51:55,823 --> 01:51:58,000
commercial milestone is missed?

1697
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:03,000
you want me to respond to that?

1698
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:13,225
the way the agreement is structured, they
can't start what is referred to as phase 1

1699
01:52:13,225 --> 01:52:14,000
elective,

1700
01:52:14,000 --> 01:52:23,304
which is all the residential north of
health center drive, until they have started

1701
01:52:23,304 --> 01:52:30,000
construction of anchor 1,
anchor 2, shop a, the affordable,

1702
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:31,000
and hotel 1.

1703
01:52:31,000 --> 01:52:34,000
and there's an exception for hotel 1 regarding

1704
01:52:35,000 --> 01:52:37,000
feasibility that somebody earlier referenced.

1705
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:41,000
once they've started it, there's nothing you can do to stop it.

1706
01:52:41,000 --> 01:52:50,000
they just can't start hotel 2—oh, excuse me, residential elective 2, a

1707
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:57,000
phase 2 elective—until all of those projects are completed and hotel 2 is started.

1708
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:00,000
okay.

1709
01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:00,000
all right.

1710
01:53:03,000 --> 01:53:04,000
okay, that's interesting.

1711
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:11,427
all right, and one last question on the
senior housing: has meta housing formally

1712
01:53:11,427 --> 01:53:15,000
been selected, or who
selected it? And again,

1713
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:16,000
that's a question for the developer.

1714
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:18,000
okay, so staff doesn't know that one.

1715
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:18,000
okay.

1716
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:18,000
all right.

1717
01:53:19,000 --> 01:53:20,000
these are all for staff.

1718
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:21,000
perfect.

1719
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:23,000
thank you, guys. Okay.

1720
01:53:23,000 --> 01:53:24,000
thank you, josh.

1721
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:27,000
there's one more, I guess, another question by erica.

1722
01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:30,000
yes. Okay, ceqa?

1723
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:32,000
what is a ceqa addendum?

1724
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:32,000
I...

1725
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:36,000
what is an addendum?

1726
01:53:38,000 --> 01:53:43,000
so an addendum is basically when the environmental...

1727
01:53:44,000 --> 01:53:46,000
I'm not the expert on that question.

1728
01:53:46,000 --> 01:53:48,000
I would like to...

1729
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:50,000
colin, could you probably provide more?

1730
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:58,000
so pursuant to ceqa, a developer is only required to do one ceqa analysis.

1731
01:53:59,000 --> 01:54:03,234
after that, if the project changes and the
changes reach a certain level, a certain

1732
01:54:03,234 --> 01:54:04,000
threshold of...

1733
01:54:05,000 --> 01:54:10,219
potential environmental impacts, then the
developer either has to do another ceqa, or

1734
01:54:10,219 --> 01:54:12,000
supplemental, or an addendum.

1735
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:16,936
an addendum is the lowest level in the
chain of extra documentation that has to

1736
01:54:16,936 --> 01:54:19,000
happen when a
project is amended.

1737
01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:24,876
so in this case, an addendum was chosen
because the analysis concluded that the

1738
01:54:24,876 --> 01:54:28,000
project was going
to reduce vehicle trips.

1739
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:35,564
for a few other reasons, the consultants,
dudek and the city's consultant, decided to

1740
01:54:35,564 --> 01:54:41,000
go with an addendum versus a supplemental
document amendment or another eir. So who

1741
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:47,000
paid for dudek? My understanding is mgp did, but that's an assumption.

1742
01:54:47,000 --> 01:54:49,000
okay.

1743
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:51,000
so there have been seven addendums.

1744
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:54,000
so the original ceqa was

1745
01:54:56,000 --> 01:55:01,000
performed with the mall prior?

1746
01:55:01,000 --> 01:55:03,000
was it with the uvsp?

1747
01:55:03,000 --> 01:55:07,000
when was the original eir done?

1748
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:12,000
I believe it was done in 2009, but I'd have to ask the community development director.

1749
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:16,000
so the original eir was adopted with the general plan eir in 2009.

1750
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:17,000
okay.

1751
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:18,000
so in 2009, did the mall exist?

1752
01:55:19,000 --> 01:55:19,000
yes.

1753
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:33,000
in 2009, did oakbrook village plaza exist?

1754
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:38,000
I believe oakbrook plaza?

1755
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:41,000
no, oakbrook plaza, the office building.

1756
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:42,000
the village, sorry.

1757
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:46,000
the oakbrook village, I believe, was approved in 2018?

1758
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:47,000
no, 2012.

1759
01:55:51,000 --> 01:55:54,452
so it existed in 2009, and then there was a
development agreement that was adopted

1760
01:55:54,452 --> 01:55:55,000
subsequently.

1761
01:55:57,000 --> 01:56:07,000
so their whole project was there in 2009.

1762
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:20,000
these are questions for staff.

1763
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:22,000
the public hearing is closed.

1764
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:26,000
unless staff wants to open it up again.

1765
01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:33,000
the redevelopment of oakbrook village was done in 2012 with the apartment units.

1766
01:56:33,000 --> 01:56:33,000
okay.

1767
01:56:35,000 --> 01:56:41,000
so in 2009, basically, I'm painting a picture, right?

1768
01:56:41,000 --> 01:56:45,000
2009, when this eir existed or when it started.

1769
01:56:48,000 --> 01:56:54,881
and it says a ceqa addendum is a document
used under the california environmental

1770
01:56:54,881 --> 01:57:01,000
quality act to make a minor technical
change or addition to a previously

1771
01:57:01,000 --> 01:57:03,000
approved environmental impact report.

1772
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:06,000
would you say the destruction of a mall is a minor change?

1773
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:16,000
in 2009?

1774
01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:21,000
well, I mean, the addendum, there's been so many different addendums,

1775
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:31,000
but at what point do you say that's probably a really big change to the environment,

1776
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:39,000
which could include the development of a number of apartment units in oakbrook?

1777
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:40,000
so in 2022?

1778
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:47,979
so in 2022, when the mall was, the 2022
plan was done, a fifth addendum was done to

1779
01:57:47,979 --> 01:57:49,000
the general plan.

1780
01:57:50,000 --> 01:57:54,801
the fifth addendum was done to show that
the project was less intense than when the

1781
01:57:54,801 --> 01:57:57,000
full mall was at
its full development.

1782
01:57:57,000 --> 01:58:01,729
so the total square footage of the mall
with all the ancillary buildings, the new

1783
01:58:01,729 --> 01:58:05,000
development was considered
consistent with the 2009 eir.

1784
01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:12,168
so with that, no new mitigation measures
would be required or anything; the project,

1785
01:58:12,168 --> 01:58:15,000
environmentally
impact-wise, would be similar.

1786
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:22,000
well, so that decision, again, so a minor technical change.

1787
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:29,212
and technical, it just depends on who
makes the decision on what is a minor or a

1788
01:58:29,212 --> 01:58:33,000
large change, which
is the governing body.

1789
01:58:33,000 --> 01:58:36,652
the addendum would still require technical
study and review and supporting documents

1790
01:58:36,652 --> 01:58:38,000
that an addendum is applicable.

1791
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:43,000
you cannot apply an addendum without the proper evidence and background.

1792
01:58:43,000 --> 01:58:44,000
correct.

1793
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:48,000
but you can always hire a company to provide a result.

1794
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:50,000
correct.

1795
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:55,000
so with this ceqa, to ensure that this was appropriate,

1796
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:58,962
the city pulled from its environmental
bench and hired lsa to peer review the

1797
01:58:58,962 --> 01:59:02,000
document to determine and
confirm whether the memo that was

1798
01:59:02,000 --> 01:59:04,000
provided by dudek is consistent.

1799
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:09,240
so just to ensure that we were looking
at it from the ceqa standpoint, and we were

1800
01:59:09,240 --> 01:59:11,000
going to be making
sure that there

1801
01:59:11,000 --> 01:59:14,000
were no additional mitigation measures or anything required for this.

1802
01:59:14,000 --> 01:59:18,000
so it's essentially a group that's checking what the applicant...

1803
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:22,000
with the technical studies and everything, correct.

1804
01:59:22,000 --> 01:59:28,212
and the deciding body is the council to
decide whether an addendum is a large or

1805
01:59:28,212 --> 01:59:30,000
minor technical change?

1806
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:31,000
correct.

1807
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:32,000
okay, thank you.

1808
01:59:34,000 --> 01:59:38,000
well, to clarify, to determine that the addendum is appropriate.

1809
01:59:43,000 --> 01:59:51,567
okay, I see no more questions in regard
to staff. We will now turn to questions in

1810
01:59:51,567 --> 01:59:57,000
regard to the developer's
presentation. So actually,

1811
01:59:57,000 --> 02:00:02,859
I would invite you to re-approach the podium
because the questions will be, and then

1812
02:00:02,859 --> 02:00:06,000
you can redirect them
to members of your team

1813
02:00:06,000 --> 02:00:10,000
if you feel appropriate. Start with...

1814
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:18,000
I'm glad you stuck around a little bit.

1815
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:21,000
I'll try to keep putting your stuff up front here.

1816
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:27,494
the new design, which I just shared with
councilman sweeney and I'll share with

1817
02:00:27,494 --> 02:00:29,000
anybody else that
wants to see it,

1818
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:33,000
basically, it goes through the corner of pad 4, and it

1819
02:00:34,000 --> 02:00:36,000
almost goes to the middle of the hotel.

1820
02:00:37,000 --> 02:00:41,685
in section 12, which councilman pezold
mentioned, it does talk about—I think it's

1821
02:00:41,685 --> 02:00:44,000
12—it talks about, if
that would happen,

1822
02:00:45,000 --> 02:00:47,000
you're prepared to move pad 4 and the hotel.

1823
02:00:48,000 --> 02:00:49,000
where would you move it to?

1824
02:00:52,000 --> 02:00:53,000
you said new design.

1825
02:00:54,000 --> 02:00:55,000
I think it's important to clarify.

1826
02:00:55,000 --> 02:00:58,000
this is a proposal; it's not set in stone, right?

1827
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:00,000
I think we heard from octa.

1828
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:03,000
they still have quite a bit of environmental analysis to do.

1829
02:01:03,000 --> 02:01:03,000
we'll weigh in.

1830
02:01:03,000 --> 02:01:04,000
you'll weigh in.

1831
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:09,552
so in terms of where it gets moved, it will
have to move to a place that's acceptable

1832
02:01:09,552 --> 02:01:11,000
to both the hotel operator,

1833
02:01:11,000 --> 02:01:13,000
the hotel developer, ourselves, and the city.

1834
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:16,000
there are a number of locations on the site where it could get relocated.

1835
02:01:16,000 --> 02:01:17,000
what are they?

1836
02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:26,172
we have a number of ideas, but until I vet
those with the hotel operator, it would be

1837
02:01:26,172 --> 02:01:28,000
speculation, right?

1838
02:01:28,000 --> 02:01:29,000
okay.

1839
02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:33,158
well, I guess I'm looking for a more
definitive answer, because if we've gone to the

1840
02:01:33,158 --> 02:01:34,000
trouble, both you

1841
02:01:36,000 --> 02:01:40,779
and the staff, to put that in the da as
specific paragraphs, I would assume that you

1842
02:01:40,779 --> 02:01:43,000
would have thought
it through and said,

1843
02:01:43,000 --> 02:01:47,592
okay, we're going to move it over to
this location or that location, at least a

1844
02:01:47,592 --> 02:01:48,000
couple.

1845
02:01:48,000 --> 02:01:51,000
yeah, I'm not saying that we don't have ideas.

1846
02:01:51,000 --> 02:01:54,000
I'm just saying it would be speculative to tell you definitively.

1847
02:01:54,000 --> 02:01:56,000
then you're not willing to share those ideas.

1848
02:01:58,000 --> 02:02:02,500
I want to vet those with the hotel operator
to make sure that that's a location that

1849
02:02:02,500 --> 02:02:04,000
they could move to, and then

1850
02:02:04,000 --> 02:02:05,000
we will come back and provide that.

1851
02:02:05,000 --> 02:02:06,000
I'll take that as a no.

1852
02:02:07,000 --> 02:02:08,000
I wouldn't take it as a no.

1853
02:02:09,000 --> 02:02:09,000
then share it.

1854
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:16,024
like I said, there's numerous locations
where it could be relocated, but we've also

1855
02:02:16,024 --> 02:02:19,000
seen octa doesn't
have a definitive take.

1856
02:02:19,000 --> 02:02:19,000
okay.

1857
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:25,000
my specific concern is, would there be the possibility of this being moved to

1858
02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:27,000
the retail areas?

1859
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:31,000
in what regard?

1860
02:02:31,000 --> 02:02:33,000
like that it would result in a loss of retail?

1861
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:37,000
I think phase 1r is the required, which contains most of the retail.

1862
02:02:38,000 --> 02:02:43,856
and if, let's say, hotel 1 is displaced
and pad 4 is displaced, would that go into

1863
02:02:43,856 --> 02:02:46,000
wiping out some of the retail?

1864
02:02:46,000 --> 02:02:49,000
in other words, reducing our total retail from 163,000 down even lower.

1865
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:58,596
it would not result in any impacting of
retail outside of what's mentioned in that

1866
02:02:58,596 --> 02:02:59,000
12.4,

1867
02:02:59,000 --> 02:03:01,000
which is hotel 1 and pad 4.

1868
02:03:02,000 --> 02:03:06,000
okay, then I can say then, no matter where it's moved to, it won't reduce retail?

1869
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:08,000
not necessarily.

1870
02:03:08,000 --> 02:03:10,000
there may be some reduction in retail.

1871
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:15,000
we haven't seen the amount of what could hypothetically be the taking yet.

1872
02:03:16,000 --> 02:03:19,000
so you're saying it could impact retail and reduce the retail, then?

1873
02:03:21,000 --> 02:03:23,000
there may be some small reduction in retail.

1874
02:03:23,000 --> 02:03:24,000
we don't know about pad 4.

1875
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:30,000
we need to find out where the take will be and then a relocation option for it.

1876
02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:31,000
okay, I'll be honest with you.

1877
02:03:31,000 --> 02:03:35,322
my worry is that it gets displaced and we
lose even more retail, which is one of my

1878
02:03:35,322 --> 02:03:36,000
big problems.

1879
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:44,445
with respect to the octa off-ramp there,
we did some studies back in '22 and before

1880
02:03:44,445 --> 02:03:46,000
that on the traffic.

1881
02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:54,384
if the octa thing would go in there and
displace the hotel, that would increase the

1882
02:03:54,384 --> 02:03:56,000
traffic tremendously.

1883
02:03:57,000 --> 02:04:03,631
all the traffic coming off the freeway then
would go through the corner of the mall,

1884
02:04:03,631 --> 02:04:06,000
the corner of your area there,

1885
02:04:06,000 --> 02:04:12,000
and really add to the traffic in addition to the new apartment buildings and hotels.

1886
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:16,000
townhouses and homes.

1887
02:04:17,000 --> 02:04:18,000
has that been discussed or thought about?

1888
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:24,000
we don't have any data from octa to weigh in on yet, so that will

1889
02:04:24,000 --> 02:04:28,131
absolutely be part of the process that they
conduct for environmental review so that

1890
02:04:28,131 --> 02:04:30,000
we can provide them
with our feedback.

1891
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:35,126
I kind of want to ask octa if they've even
thought about it, but I guess we shouldn't

1892
02:04:35,126 --> 02:04:36,000
reopen the public.

1893
02:04:37,000 --> 02:04:37,000
all right.

1894
02:04:39,000 --> 02:04:40,000
okay.

1895
02:04:41,000 --> 02:04:41,000
mr.

1896
02:04:41,000 --> 02:04:44,000
oros, could you bring up the merlone geier presentation?

1897
02:04:45,000 --> 02:04:48,000
and I'd like to talk about page 14 to begin with.

1898
02:04:59,000 --> 02:05:00,000
okay.

1899
02:05:05,000 --> 02:05:06,000
okay.

1900
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:07,000
mr.

1901
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:08,000
clark and I went over

1902
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:13,000
the drawing of the project on friday,

1903
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:16,761
and we mapped out a little picture—got my
crayons, you know—to find out where things

1904
02:05:16,761 --> 02:05:19,000
really were. I was hoping
presentations tonight...

1905
02:05:21,000 --> 02:05:26,000
and he guided me through that, and I'm looking at this picture on 14, and it

1906
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:35,609
does not seem to match, in particular the
phase 1r, which is sort of the light blue

1907
02:05:35,609 --> 02:05:37,000
at the left.

1908
02:05:40,000 --> 02:05:43,000
that, let's see, what's the difference in that?

1909
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:45,000
that one is...

1910
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:45,000
okay.

1911
02:06:06,000 --> 02:06:06,000
nope.

1912
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:11,000
I think right here it's shown in green, which is phase 2 required.

1913
02:06:11,000 --> 02:06:12,000
yes, phase 2 required.

1914
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:14,000
right, which is correct.

1915
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:18,000
okay, so you're saying that this 14 is correct?

1916
02:06:19,000 --> 02:06:19,000
correct.

1917
02:06:19,000 --> 02:06:22,000
did you say, oh, page 14?

1918
02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:24,000
yeah, this is correct.

1919
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:30,085
yeah, we're required at the same time that
we move forward with the village green; we

1920
02:06:30,085 --> 02:06:32,000
have to move forward with the...

1921
02:06:32,000 --> 02:06:34,000
I guess I'll have to get a clarification because...

1922
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:35,000
mr.

1923
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:39,000
clark, who helped write the da, says differently.

1924
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:40,000
so which is it?

1925
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:41,000
I don't know.

1926
02:06:41,000 --> 02:06:42,000
how is it in the da?

1927
02:06:43,000 --> 02:06:43,000
I guess that...

1928
02:06:43,000 --> 02:06:43,000
so...

1929
02:07:03,000 --> 02:07:08,354
the phase 2 required component of what's
shown there in lots 9 and 10 is the retail

1930
02:07:08,354 --> 02:07:11,000
component that's
facing the village park.

1931
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:16,000
so we're obligated to bring that online the same time that we finish the village park,

1932
02:07:16,000 --> 02:07:21,502
which suggests that we need to make a decision
and move forward concurrently with the

1933
02:07:21,502 --> 02:07:25,000
rest of the residential
that's there on lots 9 and 10,

1934
02:07:25,000 --> 02:07:28,000
which shows multifamily north or townhome north.

1935
02:07:28,000 --> 02:07:29,000
okay.

1936
02:07:29,000 --> 02:07:30,000
I'm sorry, but I'm so confused.

1937
02:07:30,000 --> 02:07:32,000
the part there that has

1938
02:07:33,000 --> 02:07:34,000
lot 9.

1939
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:36,000
I'm sorry.

1940
02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:41,000
I don't know how to even describe it.

1941
02:07:42,000 --> 02:07:53,000
I guess it's lot 9, 6.1d, north residential, the part up there in the...

1942
02:07:54,000 --> 02:07:56,000
dark green protrudes up?

1943
02:07:56,000 --> 02:07:58,000
yeah, it says multifamily north or townhome north.

1944
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:00,000
that's lots 9 and 10.

1945
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:00,000
okay.

1946
02:08:01,000 --> 02:08:03,000
is that part of, that's really part of phase 2 required?

1947
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:09,000
so the shops that are associated with that are part of the phase 2 required.

1948
02:08:09,000 --> 02:08:14,000
and then, by virtue of making the decision of what we're doing on those shops,

1949
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:20,000
we anticipate making the decision to move forward on that residential component.

1950
02:08:21,000 --> 02:08:21,000
okay.

1951
02:08:25,000 --> 02:08:31,588
okay, so I guess to clarify that, in our
exhibit, we could have shown the green as

1952
02:08:31,588 --> 02:08:34,000
just being those retail shops.

1953
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:36,000
that would be correct and in line.

1954
02:08:36,000 --> 02:08:38,000
this is not an exhibit to the da.

1955
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:43,000
this was created based on a request for a phasing plan.

1956
02:08:43,000 --> 02:08:47,090
just to clarify, then, the top part of the
dark green that protrudes up should be

1957
02:08:47,090 --> 02:08:48,000
with the tan area.

1958
02:08:50,000 --> 02:08:55,000
yes, it would be with the tan area; it would be phase 1 elective.

1959
02:08:55,000 --> 02:08:58,000
actually, it would be phase 2 elective, yeah.

1960
02:08:58,000 --> 02:09:00,000
no, it would be phase 1 elective as long as we

1961
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:03,000
no, it would be phase 2 elective because we have to do, it

1962
02:09:03,000 --> 02:09:08,000
would have to be tied to that retail that's part of the phase 2 requirement.

1963
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:11,000
it's not really 2r; it's 1e.

1964
02:09:11,000 --> 02:09:12,000
you're correct.

1965
02:09:12,000 --> 02:09:16,871
so we could, yeah, for tracking purposes,
update this exhibit so that it clarifies

1966
02:09:16,871 --> 02:09:18,000
and ties to the da.

1967
02:09:19,000 --> 02:09:21,000
but this is, again, not an exhibit to the da.

1968
02:09:21,000 --> 02:09:22,000
the da controls.

1969
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:24,000
well, that's been my problem.

1970
02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:27,000
I haven't had time to go through the da, just getting it in the last couple of days,

1971
02:09:27,000 --> 02:09:30,000
and what you present tonight is not even accurate.

1972
02:09:31,000 --> 02:09:33,000
so I'm not saying it's a big thing.

1973
02:09:33,000 --> 02:09:35,000
I don't want to blame you for that.

1974
02:09:35,000 --> 02:09:38,000
but I mean, we need more time to dissect things.

1975
02:09:38,000 --> 02:09:41,000
that's a major part of the whole thing, right in the center.

1976
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:43,000
and we don't even have it right on the presentation stuff.

1977
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:44,000
we've got to get it coordinated.

1978
02:09:44,000 --> 02:09:46,000
so we really need more.

1979
02:09:46,000 --> 02:09:48,000
we need some more discussion.

1980
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:48,000
okay.

1981
02:09:50,000 --> 02:09:51,000
okay.

1982
02:09:51,000 --> 02:09:54,000
let's see.

1983
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:55,000
page.

1984
02:09:57,000 --> 02:09:58,000
why does this not match?

1985
02:09:58,000 --> 02:09:58,000
page 4, please.

1986
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:06,845
okay, this diagram's kind of confusing to
me because it looks like everything's sort

1987
02:10:06,845 --> 02:10:08,000
of finished in 2031,

1988
02:10:09,000 --> 02:10:13,000
but yet the project's supposed to last 15 years, and 2026 and 15 is not 2031.

1989
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:16,000
again, we could update this.

1990
02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:20,949
this is just to depict where we are,
where we think we'll be able to finish the

1991
02:10:20,949 --> 02:10:23,000
majority of the phases
that we're working

1992
02:10:23,000 --> 02:10:23,000
on.

1993
02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:25,000
so this is not complete.

1994
02:10:25,000 --> 02:10:26,000
it should have more years out there.

1995
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:27,000
we could put a plus sign after 2031.

1996
02:10:27,000 --> 02:10:28,000
okay.

1997
02:10:35,000 --> 02:10:36,000
okay, so it's not finished.

1998
02:10:37,000 --> 02:10:39,000
page number 6, mr.

1999
02:10:39,000 --> 02:10:40,000
oros, please.

2000
02:10:47,000 --> 02:10:52,795
okay, I think I wrote down the wrong
number on that, but let me deal with the

2001
02:10:52,795 --> 02:10:54,000
question anyway.

2002
02:10:56,000 --> 02:10:57,000
I'm glad that mr.

2003
02:10:57,000 --> 02:11:01,000
sweeney clarified that eps is sort of the financial model we're going by.

2004
02:11:03,000 --> 02:11:04,000
a number of things.

2005
02:11:05,000 --> 02:11:12,726
I compared it with the 2022 that was done
by kosmont, just to get an idea of where we

2006
02:11:12,726 --> 02:11:14,000
were going to.

2007
02:11:15,000 --> 02:11:22,362
and some of the things in there, there were
four categories that were added that were

2008
02:11:22,362 --> 02:11:26,000
not in the 2022 study
that were put in the

2009
02:11:27,000 --> 02:11:28,000
revenue category.

2010
02:11:29,000 --> 02:11:36,000
one was basically an additional $40,000-plus for taxes.

2011
02:11:37,000 --> 02:11:43,925
and I was going with our financial director
that that was proposed $40,000 for, like,

2012
02:11:43,925 --> 02:11:48,000
speeding tickets and
parking tickets and the like.

2013
02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:53,000
I think that's kind of an interesting category to add to our revenue.

2014
02:11:54,000 --> 02:11:55,000
I'm not sure that's a good thing to put in there.

2015
02:11:56,000 --> 02:11:57,000
it wasn't done the last time.

2016
02:11:58,000 --> 02:12:00,000
did I get the interpretation of that wrong?

2017
02:12:00,000 --> 02:12:04,332
it was a different group that did this
study, a group that the city's actually

2018
02:12:04,332 --> 02:12:06,000
commissioned work from before,

2019
02:12:06,000 --> 02:12:11,051
and they said that this is a line item
that's typically included in other fiscal

2020
02:12:11,051 --> 02:12:12,000
impact studies.

2021
02:12:12,000 --> 02:12:14,000
so that's all we had to work off of.

2022
02:12:14,000 --> 02:12:17,000
okay, it wasn't in the impact study four years ago when we did it.

2023
02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:18,000
so I found that kind of strange.

2024
02:12:19,000 --> 02:12:24,807
the other one was, it just said other
taxes, another almost $60,000, kind of a

2025
02:12:24,807 --> 02:12:26,000
nebulous number.

2026
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:26,000
what was that?

2027
02:12:27,000 --> 02:12:31,539
it's probably a footnote tied to it, but if
there wasn't and we need to provide more

2028
02:12:31,539 --> 02:12:33,000
clarity, we have dpfg here.

2029
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:36,000
they can respond to that if it's a big concern.

2030
02:12:37,000 --> 02:12:38,000
another one just said charges and fees.

2031
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:41,000
another $200,000 income.

2032
02:12:42,000 --> 02:12:45,000
again, another nebulous title that was not in the 2022 study.

2033
02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:50,000
again, there are footnotes for every single one of those line items, so...

2034
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:52,000
okay.

2035
02:12:52,000 --> 02:12:56,886
I guess my objection and concern is to
get at least three or four line items that

2036
02:12:56,886 --> 02:12:59,000
weren't in the
2022 study, and they

2037
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:02,625
add up to several hundred thousand dollars
as potential revenue for the study, which

2038
02:13:02,625 --> 02:13:05,000
seems kind of strange
because we went over it in detail

2039
02:13:06,000 --> 02:13:08,000
last time, and now they're brand-new ones.

2040
02:13:15,000 --> 02:13:17,000
oh, I know, because there was a big discussion.

2041
02:13:17,000 --> 02:13:21,079
I objected to the kosmont study vehemently,
and we redid it, and we got a number that

2042
02:13:21,079 --> 02:13:23,000
was much more
reasonable, like you said,

2043
02:13:23,000 --> 02:13:24,000
the keyser.

2044
02:13:24,000 --> 02:13:25,000
I would just compare it.

2045
02:13:25,000 --> 02:13:29,000
I would just compare it, yeah.

2046
02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:31,000
no, I have the kosmont.

2047
02:13:31,000 --> 02:13:37,171
the kosmont is the one I'm comparing it
to, but keyser marston is the one we did,

2048
02:13:37,171 --> 02:13:39,000
which is much different.

2049
02:13:39,000 --> 02:13:40,000
right, I know, I remember.

2050
02:13:41,000 --> 02:13:42,000
but the line I have is still the same.

2051
02:13:45,000 --> 02:13:49,000
one additional thing, too, on this financial page: sales tax.

2052
02:13:51,000 --> 02:13:55,000
you have, from the eps study, $883,000.

2053
02:13:56,000 --> 02:14:02,036
well, I just did a study of the current
situation for the mall area, and we're only

2054
02:14:02,036 --> 02:14:04,000
bringing in maybe $450,000,

2055
02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:09,595
and those are pretty viable, good businesses
there, and the only thing that we'd be

2056
02:14:09,595 --> 02:14:10,000
adding

2057
02:14:11,000 --> 02:14:15,000
revenue would be a whole foods, as I understand, and several little pads.

2058
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:21,000
and I added some to that, and I estimated about $600,000, maybe a little less.

2059
02:14:22,000 --> 02:14:26,199
I don't see how you double some major
businesses by a couple little pads and a whole

2060
02:14:26,199 --> 02:14:27,000
foods, you know,

2061
02:14:27,000 --> 02:14:30,608
a lot of people love whole foods, but as
far as the city getting tax money from it,

2062
02:14:30,608 --> 02:14:32,000
food is not taxed in california.

2063
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:33,000
so there's not a whole lot of revenue there.

2064
02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:37,000
so I don't know how you come up with the double of what we're getting now.

2065
02:14:39,000 --> 02:14:41,000
so those are numbers you're quoting from eps, right?

2066
02:14:43,000 --> 02:14:45,000
I'd have to—I mean, that's your consultant that the city hired,

2067
02:14:46,000 --> 02:14:50,000
so I can't speak to the assumptions they included in their analysis.

2068
02:14:50,000 --> 02:14:52,000
yeah, that's why my estimates came out.

2069
02:14:52,000 --> 02:14:55,470
several hundred thousand dollars different
because there's additional things that

2070
02:14:55,470 --> 02:14:58,000
weren't there before and a
discrepancy, I would say, in the

2071
02:14:59,000 --> 02:15:00,000
prediction of the sales tax.

2072
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:02,000
okay.

2073
02:15:05,000 --> 02:15:06,000
next question.

2074
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:09,000
okay, I talked about the drawing not matching.

2075
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:13,000
page number 19, mr. Oros, please.

2076
02:15:24,000 --> 02:15:26,000
yeah, this one doesn't show it as well as I would like to.

2077
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:32,000
can we go back to just the general picture of the overview of the property?

2078
02:15:38,000 --> 02:15:44,000
the site plan? Yeah, a map would be better. There we go.

2079
02:15:44,000 --> 02:15:50,775
that's good. Now I have a question about
parking and the park. The park is over on

2080
02:15:50,775 --> 02:15:54,000
the bottom there,
about where the white

2081
02:15:54,000 --> 02:15:57,000
circle is, the vp plus ret?

2082
02:15:58,000 --> 02:16:03,000
but the parking is considerably far from that. That seems rather

2083
02:16:05,000 --> 02:16:07,000
inconvenient for people taking their kids to the park.

2084
02:16:07,000 --> 02:16:10,000
they have to walk through stores or other ways to get there.

2085
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:14,000
I'm just wondering why it was not put with some parking.

2086
02:16:14,000 --> 02:16:15,000
I didn't see any parking for the park.

2087
02:16:17,000 --> 02:16:18,000
where was the parking for the park?

2088
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:23,000
the parking is based on the retail in addition to the park usage.

2089
02:16:23,000 --> 02:16:31,337
so the parking's been evaluated, and we
definitely don't want to have a gap in the

2090
02:16:31,337 --> 02:16:35,000
need for parking
to be able to lease

2091
02:16:35,000 --> 02:16:35,000
the retail.

2092
02:16:35,000 --> 02:16:39,000
so you saw the parking numbers.

2093
02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:43,000
there's a surplus in terms of parking for the commercial parking.

2094
02:16:44,000 --> 02:16:45,000
we think it's efficient.

2095
02:16:46,000 --> 02:16:48,000
was there consideration given for parking for the park?

2096
02:16:50,000 --> 02:16:52,000
it was part of the considerations for the nature.

2097
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:53,000
it looks like it's isolated.

2098
02:16:54,000 --> 02:16:57,000
there's no parking, not any quantity of parking that's near the park.

2099
02:16:59,000 --> 02:17:01,000
there's quite a bit of parking near the park.

2100
02:17:04,000 --> 02:17:08,677
along the village drive, along calle luisa,
there's a large parking lot just south of

2101
02:17:08,677 --> 02:17:10,000
pad 3 adjacent to pad 1.

2102
02:17:11,000 --> 02:17:13,000
there's parking along magdalena.

2103
02:17:13,000 --> 02:17:16,414
yeah, there's a whole bunch of parking there
where bj's is now, that one big section

2104
02:17:16,414 --> 02:17:18,000
there, but then you
have to go through,

2105
02:17:19,000 --> 02:17:23,698
you know, you have to go across the road
and through a couple pads there before you

2106
02:17:23,698 --> 02:17:25,000
get to the park, which,

2107
02:17:25,000 --> 02:17:27,000
like I said, if I'm taking my granddaughter to the park, you know,

2108
02:17:28,000 --> 02:17:31,617
I want to minimize her walking across roads
and the distance she has to travel to go,

2109
02:17:31,617 --> 02:17:32,000
you know,

2110
02:17:32,000 --> 02:17:33,000
swing on the swings or whatever.

2111
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:37,000
okay, that seemed like a discrepancy.

2112
02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:40,000
okay.

2113
02:17:41,000 --> 02:17:46,000
page number 24, affordable housing.

2114
02:17:51,000 --> 02:17:58,613
I want to ask, first of all, the area or
the, I guess, apartments in the affordable

2115
02:17:58,613 --> 02:18:01,000
is allocated very low, the

2116
02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:04,000
very lowest thing, which I guess is the...

2117
02:18:06,000 --> 02:18:07,000
10% of the units will be at 30% ami.

2118
02:18:07,000 --> 02:18:09,000
yeah, there's a really low income.

2119
02:18:09,000 --> 02:18:09,000
I forget.

2120
02:18:09,000 --> 02:18:11,000
they keep changing categories on me.

2121
02:18:12,000 --> 02:18:17,538
how many of those are not a studio, but a
one- or two-bedroom or three-bedroom for a

2122
02:18:17,538 --> 02:18:18,000
family?

2123
02:18:18,000 --> 02:18:20,000
so this is not family housing.

2124
02:18:20,000 --> 02:18:21,000
this is senior housing.

2125
02:18:21,000 --> 02:18:24,000
there'll be studios, ones, and two-bedroom units.

2126
02:18:24,000 --> 02:18:27,000
there'll be a mix of those based on demand.

2127
02:18:27,000 --> 02:18:32,000
and the income levels will be spread across the different unit types.

2128
02:18:32,000 --> 02:18:37,943
so what is agreed to here provides the most
flexibility to increase the likelihood of

2129
02:18:37,943 --> 02:18:42,000
success in procuring the
needed financing for the project.

2130
02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:50,155
so what we've agreed to is that the ami
levels will be between 30 and 70%, averaging

2131
02:18:50,155 --> 02:18:52,000
around 60% or less,

2132
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:59,000
and that at least 10% of the units will be 30% ami or less, which is very low income.

2133
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:01,000
well, okay, let me get an idea, then.

2134
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:02,000
what kind of units are there?

2135
02:19:02,000 --> 02:19:03,000
are they all...

2136
02:19:03,000 --> 02:19:04,000
studios, ones, and twos.

2137
02:19:04,000 --> 02:19:05,000
studio, one, and two?

2138
02:19:05,000 --> 02:19:05,000
yeah.

2139
02:19:06,000 --> 02:19:06,000
okay.

2140
02:19:07,000 --> 02:19:09,000
how many twos are allocated to the lowest level?

2141
02:19:10,000 --> 02:19:14,000
there won't just be an allocation.

2142
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:21,000
it depends on the overall mix of ami levels
that the financing will require, if that

2143
02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:22,000
makes sense.

2144
02:19:22,000 --> 02:19:25,000
but it's not going to be like the 30%s only get the studios.

2145
02:19:25,000 --> 02:19:26,000
that's not how it works.

2146
02:19:26,000 --> 02:19:28,000
okay, then the lowest group...

2147
02:19:29,000 --> 02:19:32,000
can get the, and I should say will get, some of the two-bedrooms.

2148
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:32,000
sure.

2149
02:19:33,000 --> 02:19:34,000
okay, that's good.

2150
02:19:38,000 --> 02:19:40,000
right, casey?

2151
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:41,000
let me stick to that line of questioning right now.

2152
02:19:43,000 --> 02:19:47,647
leaving out the affordable housing units
and talking about the townhouses, the homes,

2153
02:19:47,647 --> 02:19:50,000
I guess those are the
ones for sale, right?

2154
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:51,000
yes.

2155
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:53,000
okay, what is the price range on those starting now?

2156
02:19:54,000 --> 02:19:58,406
like I said in my presentation, until
they're built, and there will be a builder—we

2157
02:19:58,406 --> 02:20:00,000
don't build for-sale products,

2158
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:03,570
so there will be a builder who will build
those, and they will sell them based on the

2159
02:20:03,570 --> 02:20:05,000
cost to deliver
that unit and what

2160
02:20:05,000 --> 02:20:08,000
the return needs to be to justify that cost.

2161
02:20:08,000 --> 02:20:15,000
so I'd say it will be comparable to a new market-rate unit at the time that it comes

2162
02:20:16,000 --> 02:20:17,000
to market.

2163
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:22,736
the benefit of the unit mix that we
have is that it will hit the different

2164
02:20:22,736 --> 02:20:27,000
stratifications of the price
point levels because we'll

2165
02:20:27,000 --> 02:20:31,000
have two-bedroom, for-sale units, which you can't find in a new

2166
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:36,625
project, or you can't find an existing
project with a two-bedroom unit unless it's in

2167
02:20:36,625 --> 02:20:40,000
a condominium, which we
aren't—we're not building condominiums

2168
02:20:40,000 --> 02:20:41,000
anymore that are just flats, right?

2169
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:46,424
so that's the only gap, and then I'll go
all the way up to four-bedroom, three-story,

2170
02:20:46,424 --> 02:20:50,000
single-family detached, so
that's the spectrum that will

2171
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:53,825
be covered on the for-sale product. Okay,
one of the things that's been mentioned

2172
02:20:53,825 --> 02:20:56,000
tonight by a number of
people and they're kind

2173
02:20:56,000 --> 02:21:00,711
of concerned is, yeah, we want a place
where there's more housing and so that, you

2174
02:21:00,711 --> 02:21:01,000
know,

2175
02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:06,647
you know, nurses and doctors and whoever,
all of them down the spectrum, can afford

2176
02:21:06,647 --> 02:21:09,000
to live there. But I'm
trying to ascertain

2177
02:21:09,000 --> 02:21:13,950
if they really can afford it. We just had a
project in another part of the city where

2178
02:21:13,950 --> 02:21:15,000
they were building

2179
02:21:15,000 --> 02:21:19,665
units of different kinds, and the starting
price was $1.5 million. I don't know many

2180
02:21:19,665 --> 02:21:22,000
people that's a
starting price for, so I'm

2181
02:21:22,000 --> 02:21:24,000
trying to get what is the lowest, you know, what's the lowest?

2182
02:21:25,000 --> 02:21:28,000
smallest townhouse, what's it going to cost? Is it going to be at least

2183
02:21:28,000 --> 02:21:34,355
$700,000? I don't know what it's going
to cost to build because we don't have a

2184
02:21:34,355 --> 02:21:35,000
builder.

2185
02:21:35,000 --> 02:21:36,000
we haven't priced that out yet.

2186
02:21:36,000 --> 02:21:42,538
but, I mean, there will be varying price
points, and there will be varying unit types

2187
02:21:42,538 --> 02:21:45,000
that people will be able to buy.

2188
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:47,000
okay, I guess I'm not finding out.

2189
02:21:47,000 --> 02:21:48,000
I'm not sure that that's...

2190
02:21:48,000 --> 02:21:49,000
there are going to be, you know...

2191
02:21:50,000 --> 02:21:54,834
starter families living there after all.
Well, I'll just interrupt only in the sense

2192
02:21:54,834 --> 02:21:58,000
that the question that
you're asking really needs to be

2193
02:21:59,000 --> 02:22:04,000
looked at in terms of time, so by the time they get around to building these, it

2194
02:22:04,000 --> 02:22:06,000
could be five years from now.

2195
02:22:06,000 --> 02:22:09,000
so you're not going to have the same kind of price points.

2196
02:22:10,000 --> 02:22:12,000
in fact, the economy could go the other way, for all I know.

2197
02:22:13,000 --> 02:22:14,000
but the point is...

2198
02:22:14,000 --> 02:22:16,000
only if I buy houses, and then that'll go down.

2199
02:22:16,000 --> 02:22:20,278
and all I'm saying, dave, is that if you're
asking the question, it really needs to

2200
02:22:20,278 --> 02:22:21,000
be in terms of

2201
02:22:22,000 --> 02:22:26,000
today's dollars, if those units hit the street today, what might they be?

2202
02:22:27,000 --> 02:22:28,000
I'm not sure they'll know.

2203
02:22:28,000 --> 02:22:32,000
because you can't predict what's going to be five years from now.

2204
02:22:32,000 --> 02:22:33,000
you're correct, but I was trying to get an idea.

2205
02:22:34,000 --> 02:22:36,709
as of now, just to get it in context of
what we're doing now, the salaries are going

2206
02:22:36,709 --> 02:22:37,000
to go up,

2207
02:22:37,000 --> 02:22:38,000
everything's going to go up, probably.

2208
02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:40,000
I understood your question.

2209
02:22:40,000 --> 02:22:45,363
just trying to get an idea if it's really
housing that anybody can afford as a new

2210
02:22:45,363 --> 02:22:47,000
family or starter family.

2211
02:22:48,000 --> 02:22:49,000
and I really don't hear that.

2212
02:22:49,000 --> 02:22:50,000
okay.

2213
02:22:52,000 --> 02:22:54,000
another question, page 28.

2214
02:22:54,000 --> 02:23:02,000
I guess I'm sure the hotel was in there.

2215
02:23:02,000 --> 02:23:03,000
I mentioned that last time.

2216
02:23:03,000 --> 02:23:04,000
that was one of my sticking points.

2217
02:23:04,000 --> 02:23:08,000
we didn't have enough hotel rooms to make the revenue positive.

2218
02:23:08,000 --> 02:23:09,000
I'm glad to see you added the hotel.

2219
02:23:09,000 --> 02:23:12,000
but why don't we have both hotels ready for the olympics?

2220
02:23:13,000 --> 02:23:17,000
because the second hotel requires the relocation of the nordstrom rack.

2221
02:23:21,000 --> 02:23:21,000
bummer.

2222
02:23:24,000 --> 02:23:31,000
this hotel in particular has been ready to go since 2023, so they are ready to go, but

2223
02:23:32,000 --> 02:23:34,000
unfortunately... Good answer, unfortunately. Okay.

2224
02:23:37,000 --> 02:23:41,000
I noticed, this goes back to the study again, and forgive me, mr.

2225
02:23:41,000 --> 02:23:44,147
clark, I'm going to refer to the kosmont
study again, but it was pretty consistent, I

2226
02:23:44,147 --> 02:23:45,000
think, with the keyser.

2227
02:23:47,000 --> 02:23:54,485
the valuation, property tax-wise, was about
$700,000 back in '22, and now it's moved

2228
02:23:54,485 --> 02:23:56,000
down to $536,000,

2229
02:23:58,000 --> 02:24:01,000
which tells me that the overall value of the property has gone down.

2230
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:02,000
is that the case?

2231
02:24:05,000 --> 02:24:06,000
what are you referring to?

2232
02:24:06,000 --> 02:24:13,808
when we calculated how much tax the city
would get based on property tax, in 2022,

2233
02:24:13,808 --> 02:24:18,000
the number was
$700,000, which I said, okay,

2234
02:24:19,000 --> 02:24:19,000
I'll buy that.

2235
02:24:19,000 --> 02:24:21,000
I don't know what it's going to be worth when it's all finished.

2236
02:24:21,000 --> 02:24:25,126
but now it's been revised down to $536,000,
which is about $160,000 less, which tells

2237
02:24:25,126 --> 02:24:26,000
me that the value,

2238
02:24:26,000 --> 02:24:27,000
when you do the numbers back up,

2239
02:24:33,000 --> 02:24:35,000
that the value of the whole property has gone down.

2240
02:24:35,000 --> 02:24:36,000
is that the case?

2241
02:24:36,000 --> 02:24:39,727
I think it's more a function of the reduction
in square footage, which ties to the

2242
02:24:39,727 --> 02:24:42,000
reduction in parking and
the reduction in traffic.

2243
02:24:43,000 --> 02:24:47,429
okay, I'm guessing that because a bunch
of townhouses are worth less than a big

2244
02:24:47,429 --> 02:24:49,000
six-story apartment complex.

2245
02:24:49,000 --> 02:24:54,349
well, a five-story townhome is less square
footage than 460,000 square feet of office

2246
02:24:54,349 --> 02:24:58,000
plus a movie theater and five
large multifamily buildings.

2247
02:24:58,000 --> 02:24:59,000
it's less square footage.

2248
02:25:00,000 --> 02:25:04,000
okay, so I just wanted to understand if we're revising our income from that data.

2249
02:25:04,000 --> 02:25:07,000
I would argue that's, yeah, I would assume that's where the delta comes from.

2250
02:25:07,000 --> 02:25:08,000
okay, thank you.

2251
02:25:11,000 --> 02:25:13,000
there was one last, it's sort of a question,

2252
02:25:13,000 --> 02:25:17,818
but there were penalties built into the
last iteration. The other ad hoc member that

2253
02:25:17,818 --> 02:25:20,000
was with me on
this is in the audience

2254
02:25:20,000 --> 02:25:20,000
right now.

2255
02:25:21,000 --> 02:25:25,472
there were a lot of penalties if things
weren't done on time and, you know, sequenced

2256
02:25:25,472 --> 02:25:26,000
correctly.

2257
02:25:27,000 --> 02:25:31,000
I haven't had a chance to look at it and see if they're in there, but are those, mr.

2258
02:25:31,000 --> 02:25:35,250
clark, I guess the question would be sort
of in general with merlone geier, are those

2259
02:25:35,250 --> 02:25:36,000
still in there?

2260
02:25:36,000 --> 02:25:41,845
everything that was in the original
agreement is in this one with respect to

2261
02:25:41,845 --> 02:25:43,000
penalties paid,

2262
02:25:43,000 --> 02:25:49,893
plus the hotel penalties that just applied
to the one hotel last night applied to

2263
02:25:49,893 --> 02:25:51,000
both of them.

2264
02:25:53,000 --> 02:25:53,000
okay.

2265
02:25:54,000 --> 02:25:54,000
okay.

2266
02:25:55,000 --> 02:26:01,000
and last thing I can tell you for right now, I'll even ask this one.

2267
02:26:08,000 --> 02:26:09,000
let me save that.

2268
02:26:10,000 --> 02:26:11,000
that's all I have for this moment.

2269
02:26:11,000 --> 02:26:12,000
okay.

2270
02:26:12,000 --> 02:26:12,000
thank you.

2271
02:26:12,000 --> 02:26:14,000
erica.

2272
02:26:14,000 --> 02:26:14,000
erica.

2273
02:26:17,000 --> 02:26:22,000
okay, do entitlements increase land values?

2274
02:26:24,000 --> 02:26:26,000
do entitlements increase land values?

2275
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:33,000
a land value is determined on the use that's approved and ultimately built, so yeah.

2276
02:26:34,000 --> 02:26:43,738
okay, so if entitlements increase land
values, would, say, a hotel, if an entitlement

2277
02:26:43,738 --> 02:26:45,000
for a hotel

2278
02:26:46,000 --> 02:26:49,000
increase the land value of that property?

2279
02:26:50,000 --> 02:26:55,000
you'd have to compare to the alternative land use.

2280
02:26:56,000 --> 02:26:56,000
okay.

2281
02:26:57,000 --> 02:27:05,000
so basically, and you knew in 2023 that octa was looking into this

2282
02:27:13,000 --> 02:27:14,000
sort of plan, 2023?

2283
02:27:15,000 --> 02:27:18,000
so three years ago?

2284
02:27:18,000 --> 02:27:26,790
so octa, this has been ongoing for 10-plus
years, right, with numerous plans and

2285
02:27:26,790 --> 02:27:28,000
iterations.

2286
02:27:30,000 --> 02:27:34,000
do you have a seat at the, do you go to their meetings?

2287
02:27:34,000 --> 02:27:34,000
no.

2288
02:27:36,000 --> 02:27:37,000
we're a private property owner.

2289
02:27:37,000 --> 02:27:40,278
I don't think in any of the comments
from octa they said that they were inviting

2290
02:27:40,278 --> 02:27:42,000
private property
owners to those meetings.

2291
02:27:42,000 --> 02:27:43,000
I think it was just cities.

2292
02:27:43,000 --> 02:27:45,000
okay.

2293
02:27:46,000 --> 02:27:50,000
so if you knew about this maybe in 2023.

2294
02:27:50,000 --> 02:27:54,000
we've known about all of the iterations they've been looking at for 10 years.

2295
02:27:55,000 --> 02:27:55,000
okay.

2296
02:27:56,000 --> 02:27:58,000
but this one has been in the process since 2023.

2297
02:27:58,000 --> 02:27:59,000
along with several other alternatives.

2298
02:28:06,000 --> 02:28:09,000
okay, along with several alternatives.

2299
02:28:09,000 --> 02:28:13,000
including what joe said of the flyover that would land in lake forest.

2300
02:28:16,000 --> 02:28:22,845
we heard of multiple, but I don't know
if I recall the environmental impacts

2301
02:28:22,845 --> 02:28:26,000
happening for a
particular project.

2302
02:28:26,000 --> 02:28:30,000
yeah, they haven't done the environmental study yet is what they said.

2303
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:36,000
I think I heard that they started the environmental.

2304
02:28:38,000 --> 02:28:40,000
but I could be wrong.

2305
02:28:41,000 --> 02:28:52,254
so 2023, so basically you knew about the
possibility of this land, that it could be

2306
02:28:52,254 --> 02:28:57,000
in jeopardy through
eminent domain.

2307
02:29:01,000 --> 02:29:09,021
why wouldn't you just design something
that could make this plan work, make octa's

2308
02:29:09,021 --> 02:29:10,000
plan work?

2309
02:29:11,000 --> 02:29:13,000
we found out, like joe mentioned,

2310
02:29:14,000 --> 02:29:20,246
early june is when we found out that this
was something that they had emphasized was

2311
02:29:20,246 --> 02:29:23,000
what octa was
advocating to caltrans.

2312
02:29:23,000 --> 02:29:26,000
ultimately, caltrans is the decision maker.

2313
02:29:26,000 --> 02:29:28,000
this is a caltrans project.

2314
02:29:28,000 --> 02:29:34,000
octa is providing the funding and interfacing to gather this support, right?

2315
02:29:35,000 --> 02:29:40,784
the ultimate decision will be made by
caltrans following all of the analysis that

2316
02:29:40,784 --> 02:29:42,000
needs to be done.

2317
02:29:43,000 --> 02:29:47,000
we have current entitlement for an office building that sits right there,

2318
02:29:47,000 --> 02:29:54,000
and we laid out our site plan without the expectation that they were going to

2319
02:29:56,000 --> 02:30:01,096
receive the approvals for the alternative
that would impact carlota the way that

2320
02:30:01,096 --> 02:30:05,000
they're now saying they're
advocating for. But because they're

2321
02:30:05,000 --> 02:30:12,817
advocating for it doesn't mean it's going
to happen. Okay, so what we agreed to, as

2322
02:30:12,817 --> 02:30:18,000
was mentioned in the da,
recognizing that in an eminent

2323
02:30:18,000 --> 02:30:24,000
domain proceeding, the city wouldn't receive the tot that we're committing to.

2324
02:30:24,000 --> 02:30:29,843
and that the city in good faith is agreeing
to this change based on that change, and

2325
02:30:29,843 --> 02:30:32,000
so we agreed that we would come

2326
02:30:32,000 --> 02:30:37,031
back with a site plan within six months
that would move the hotel outside of a

2327
02:30:37,031 --> 02:30:40,000
potential take area, and
that's what we intend

2328
02:30:40,000 --> 02:30:46,130
to do. So if you receive the entitlements,
the land value increases in that process?

2329
02:30:46,130 --> 02:30:50,000
not necessarily. But it
would increase, so that would

2330
02:30:50,000 --> 02:30:53,000
cost the taxpayers more money that would

2331
02:30:54,000 --> 02:31:03,000
that may potentially not go to our roads or the city for the residents.

2332
02:31:05,000 --> 02:31:06,000
not necessarily.

2333
02:31:06,000 --> 02:31:08,000
I think that's...

2334
02:31:09,000 --> 02:31:13,000
jumping several steps ahead of this process.

2335
02:31:13,000 --> 02:31:19,793
and I think while it's interesting, we could
have a more detailed legal conversation

2336
02:31:19,793 --> 02:31:24,000
about it if we need to clarify
what the condemnation

2337
02:31:25,000 --> 02:31:26,000
law says related to that.

2338
02:31:28,000 --> 02:31:33,532
I'm just wondering, because you're asking
for an entitlement that potentially won't

2339
02:31:33,532 --> 02:31:37,000
happen, but that entitlement
could add value to you.

2340
02:31:38,000 --> 02:31:38,000
your company.

2341
02:31:39,000 --> 02:31:43,000
but we have to come back within six months with a revised site plan, right?

2342
02:31:44,000 --> 02:31:44,000
correct.

2343
02:31:45,000 --> 02:31:45,000
correct.

2344
02:31:45,000 --> 02:31:50,000
but instead of providing a plan that has the alternative site there,

2345
02:31:50,000 --> 02:31:58,018
and this hotel seems to be a huge linchpin
in this project because the funding

2346
02:31:58,018 --> 02:32:01,000
surrounds that substantially.

2347
02:32:01,000 --> 02:32:04,000
it changes the funding.

2348
02:32:04,000 --> 02:32:09,000
our city is in jeopardy without it, but yet it's on a site that could be gone.

2349
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:11,000
right.

2350
02:32:11,000 --> 02:32:15,650
and if we continue to delay, it just
continues to put the city in more jeopardy,

2351
02:32:15,650 --> 02:32:16,000
right?

2352
02:32:16,000 --> 02:32:21,727
it doesn't help landing a hotel if we don't
approve this and we continue to delay to

2353
02:32:21,727 --> 02:32:25,000
study numerous alternatives
and try to entertain

2354
02:32:25,000 --> 02:32:27,000
octa's demands.

2355
02:32:30,000 --> 02:32:34,611
there's no guarantee that a hotel, like
the flag that is talking about coming here,

2356
02:32:34,611 --> 02:32:37,000
could easily go to
another location, right?

2357
02:32:37,000 --> 02:32:39,000
yeah, they could go and do it.

2358
02:32:39,000 --> 02:32:40,000
but right now they're not.

2359
02:32:40,000 --> 02:32:41,000
now they want to open here.

2360
02:32:42,000 --> 02:32:42,000
they want to do this.

2361
02:32:42,000 --> 02:32:49,338
so we created language that would, in the
best interest of the city and of us, allow

2362
02:32:49,338 --> 02:32:51,000
it to move forward.

2363
02:32:51,000 --> 02:32:56,600
so if past behavior is an indication of
future behavior, we don't know if it will at

2364
02:32:56,600 --> 02:32:57,000
all...

2365
02:32:57,000 --> 02:33:03,406
move forward? The project won't ever move
forward based off of the patterns of the

2366
02:33:03,406 --> 02:33:07,000
last projects. I don't
know how you want me to

2367
02:33:07,000 --> 02:33:08,000
respond to that.

2368
02:33:08,000 --> 02:33:14,915
I think that's just saying. So you have
the bus station where you have a project of

2369
02:33:14,915 --> 02:33:16,000
200 homes and

2370
02:33:25,000 --> 02:33:28,000
spread across from the station. Have you...

2371
02:33:29,000 --> 02:33:36,602
done any studies about what's around the
bus station at night? In what regard? Have you been

2372
02:33:36,602 --> 02:33:41,000
around and driven around
the bus station? Do you

2373
02:33:41,000 --> 02:33:48,668
understand what's around the bus station?
In what context? What is the point of

2374
02:33:48,668 --> 02:33:51,000
the—is there a question?

2375
02:33:51,000 --> 02:34:03,564
so the bus station, it's one station that
is a connection for people to try to get

2376
02:34:03,564 --> 02:34:10,000
into the homeless
shelter in laguna beach.

2377
02:34:11,000 --> 02:34:11,000
great.

2378
02:34:12,000 --> 02:34:18,000
so there's a strong transient population that crosses over into this area.

2379
02:34:20,000 --> 02:34:23,000
and I'm just wondering...

2380
02:34:24,000 --> 02:34:34,259
why the low-income housing would be
placed specifically there and the potential

2381
02:34:34,259 --> 02:34:44,000
issues that could happen with this
area by placing low-income housing right

2382
02:34:45,000 --> 02:34:46,000
right next to this.

2383
02:34:50,000 --> 02:34:55,683
I kind of gather what you're insinuating,
but we've relocated the senior housing to

2384
02:34:55,683 --> 02:35:00,000
that corner based on the
collaborative feedback of the housing,

2385
02:35:00,000 --> 02:35:02,000
affordable housing developer, the ad hoc committee.

2386
02:35:02,000 --> 02:35:08,719
there are a lot of housing projects adjacent
to transit centers that accommodate all

2387
02:35:08,719 --> 02:35:10,000
kinds of people,

2388
02:35:10,000 --> 02:35:12,000
including transients that are trying to get to homeless shelters.

2389
02:35:12,000 --> 02:35:17,009
I don't think that's a concern for the
affordable housing developer or for the

2390
02:35:17,009 --> 02:35:19,000
residents who would live there.

2391
02:35:19,000 --> 02:35:24,000
well, do you know where the homeless shelters are in the county?

2392
02:35:24,000 --> 02:35:31,000
I don't know how that's a relevant question either, but...

2393
02:35:32,000 --> 02:35:34,000
I'm just wondering if you know where the homeless shelters are because...

2394
02:35:35,000 --> 02:35:37,000
I don't personally, but I could find them, I'm sure.

2395
02:35:37,000 --> 02:35:39,000
how far is the next one?

2396
02:35:39,000 --> 02:35:43,445
I mean, laguna beach tends, because there
is a homeless shelter, tends to be a very

2397
02:35:43,445 --> 02:35:45,000
busy homeless shelter with...

2398
02:35:46,000 --> 02:35:50,742
women, children, men, everyone trying to
get into that shelter all of the time, all

2399
02:35:50,742 --> 02:35:52,000
over this entire area.

2400
02:35:52,000 --> 02:35:54,000
okay, I've got to interrupt.

2401
02:35:54,000 --> 02:36:00,327
are there specific questions about this
development, or are we just pontificating

2402
02:36:00,327 --> 02:36:04,000
about, you know,
homelessness in orange county?

2403
02:36:06,000 --> 02:36:12,000
it's the bus shelter and the location of the low-income housing, the location.

2404
02:36:13,000 --> 02:36:13,000
all right.

2405
02:36:14,000 --> 02:36:17,000
because I'm the chair of this, I'm not going to answer that, but I could.

2406
02:36:19,000 --> 02:36:27,434
and I just would like us to focus on questions
that specifically involve this project

2407
02:36:27,434 --> 02:36:32,000
and what the developer
is doing and not what's

2408
02:36:32,000 --> 02:36:35,000
in his mindset and all that other kind of stuff.

2409
02:36:35,000 --> 02:36:39,000
and how much other research has he done about things in the united states?

2410
02:36:40,000 --> 02:36:43,000
you know, I mean, at some point...

2411
02:36:44,000 --> 02:36:47,000
just bear with me.

2412
02:36:47,000 --> 02:36:52,040
you're not hearing much from the ad hoc
committee because we've worked on this for a

2413
02:36:52,040 --> 02:36:53,000
year and a half.

2414
02:36:53,000 --> 02:36:55,000
we can probably answer all of these questions.

2415
02:36:55,000 --> 02:36:56,000
well, not all.

2416
02:36:57,000 --> 02:37:05,000
but these are questions to the developer that you have about his presentation.

2417
02:37:05,000 --> 02:37:06,000
that's really what it was.

2418
02:37:06,000 --> 02:37:09,000
and now we're off into homelessness.

2419
02:37:09,000 --> 02:37:12,000
and I can give you a lecture about scag and homelessness.

2420
02:37:13,000 --> 02:37:18,879
yet, that's not appropriate for me to do,
so I'm not going to do that. But go ahead.

2421
02:37:18,879 --> 02:37:20,000
keep on rolling.

2422
02:37:21,000 --> 02:37:28,093
okay, I am wondering, I will move from the
location of the bus stop and some of the

2423
02:37:28,093 --> 02:37:31,000
issues that are
there in the city.

2424
02:37:34,000 --> 02:37:39,000
what about, so I noticed in this plan that you have

2425
02:37:40,000 --> 02:37:45,134
strategically placed the park right across
the street from the hospital, which is a

2426
02:37:45,134 --> 02:37:46,000
nice location.

2427
02:37:47,000 --> 02:37:53,531
however, if you are a new homebuyer, what
is the incentive to purchase in an area

2428
02:37:53,531 --> 02:37:57,000
when there's only a
dog park and the homes,

2429
02:37:57,000 --> 02:38:03,000
I am assuming they're more than one bedroom, and people may want to bring children.

2430
02:38:03,000 --> 02:38:06,000
where are the tot lots associated?

2431
02:38:07,000 --> 02:38:10,000
where are things, I mean, is it,

2432
02:38:11,000 --> 02:38:19,000
where are parks and where are things to help the kids in the neighborhood?

2433
02:38:21,000 --> 02:38:25,329
can we pull up the site? There's also a
community, there's a rec center with a pool

2434
02:38:25,329 --> 02:38:27,000
and a community center that will

2435
02:38:27,000 --> 02:38:32,129
be part of the project. What we find is the
home builder, when they come in for their

2436
02:38:32,129 --> 02:38:34,000
building permits, they may want

2437
02:38:34,000 --> 02:38:39,503
to make some modifications that would have
to go through a conformance review process

2438
02:38:39,503 --> 02:38:43,000
to probably add a lot within
that community rec center

2439
02:38:43,000 --> 02:38:46,000
area. The dog park is a major amenity.

2440
02:38:47,000 --> 02:38:50,000
and in addition to that, there's walking trails throughout the site.

2441
02:38:51,000 --> 02:38:55,000
and the village park is directly adjacent to those homes.

2442
02:38:55,000 --> 02:38:59,000
so we think it's well served.

2443
02:38:59,000 --> 02:39:04,056
so if you're a mom and you have, like, a
nine-year-old, and that you don't want

2444
02:39:04,056 --> 02:39:07,000
playing video games, you
don't want, you know,

2445
02:39:07,000 --> 02:39:10,000
you have to then say, go to a rec center.

2446
02:39:10,000 --> 02:39:13,000
but, I mean, there's just, there aren't any local

2447
02:39:14,000 --> 02:39:18,670
there isn't anything local where you can
send your children so that they can burn off

2448
02:39:18,670 --> 02:39:19,000
steam.

2449
02:39:19,000 --> 02:39:23,000
no, there's a pool and a rec center within the project.

2450
02:39:25,000 --> 02:39:28,000
but I'm just saying, for, I mean, one, for free.

2451
02:39:29,000 --> 02:39:30,000
how do you go for free?

2452
02:39:30,000 --> 02:39:31,000
yeah, it would be part of the hoa.

2453
02:39:31,000 --> 02:39:33,000
it would be owned and controlled and managed by the hoa.

2454
02:39:33,000 --> 02:39:36,000
so it would be part of their hoa dues.

2455
02:39:36,000 --> 02:39:38,000
I think homebuyers would...

2456
02:39:39,000 --> 02:39:43,000
they'd see that as an amenity, I think, having a dedicated pool area, amenity area.

2457
02:39:44,000 --> 02:39:46,000
pools are attractive.

2458
02:39:46,000 --> 02:39:47,000
pools are attractive.

2459
02:39:48,000 --> 02:39:50,000
but I'm talking about parks.

2460
02:39:50,000 --> 02:39:55,031
I'm talking about for children to burn
off energy where they don't have to get

2461
02:39:55,031 --> 02:39:56,000
prepared to go.

2462
02:39:56,000 --> 02:39:57,000
they can just walk.

2463
02:39:57,000 --> 02:39:58,000
I've got a four-and-a-half-year-old.

2464
02:39:58,000 --> 02:40:00,000
I know what that energy is all about.

2465
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:00,000
yep.

2466
02:40:03,000 --> 02:40:04,000
that's a lot.

2467
02:40:04,000 --> 02:40:04,000
okay.

2468
02:40:05,000 --> 02:40:05,000
all right.

2469
02:40:06,000 --> 02:40:06,000
thank you.

2470
02:40:06,000 --> 02:40:07,000
those are my questions.

2471
02:40:08,000 --> 02:40:08,000
okay.

2472
02:40:12,000 --> 02:40:13,000
steve?

2473
02:40:13,000 --> 02:40:13,000
josh is probably first.

2474
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:14,000
oh, I'm sorry.

2475
02:40:14,000 --> 02:40:15,000
that's okay.

2476
02:40:15,000 --> 02:40:16,000
go ahead.

2477
02:40:16,000 --> 02:40:17,000
I should be totally off.

2478
02:40:17,000 --> 02:40:18,000
okay.

2479
02:40:18,000 --> 02:40:18,000
just one question.

2480
02:40:19,000 --> 02:40:21,000
sorry, josh.

2481
02:40:21,000 --> 02:40:21,000
it's okay.

2482
02:40:21,000 --> 02:40:22,000
yeah.

2483
02:40:22,000 --> 02:40:22,000
okay.

2484
02:40:23,000 --> 02:40:23,000
all right.

2485
02:40:24,000 --> 02:40:25,000
with respect to the four different phases?

2486
02:40:26,000 --> 02:40:26,000
yeah.

2487
02:40:26,000 --> 02:40:27,000
okay.

2488
02:40:27,000 --> 02:40:30,000
the 1r and the 2r, I basically understand those, I guess.

2489
02:40:30,000 --> 02:40:35,000
the 1e and the 2e, those are sort of optional.

2490
02:40:36,000 --> 02:40:38,000
can you tell me the

2491
02:40:40,000 --> 02:40:43,000
what could be different than is shown on the drawing?

2492
02:40:43,000 --> 02:40:47,000
I mean, there's townhomes and there's individual houses.

2493
02:40:47,000 --> 02:40:49,000
on those sections, what could that change to?

2494
02:40:51,000 --> 02:40:55,000
it's not optional in regard to, like, land use, right?

2495
02:40:56,000 --> 02:41:00,000
the project, as you're seeing in front of you, is intended to be built.

2496
02:41:01,000 --> 02:41:05,762
what's optional is the phasing of when and
how many of those for-sale components of

2497
02:41:05,762 --> 02:41:08,000
the project, for
example, move forward.

2498
02:41:09,000 --> 02:41:12,772
it may be that that comes forward at a time
in the market when a home builder wants

2499
02:41:12,772 --> 02:41:14,000
to come in and build all of

2500
02:41:14,000 --> 02:41:15,000
those at once.

2501
02:41:15,000 --> 02:41:22,000
it may be that they only build a couple of those tracts of for-sale product at once.

2502
02:41:22,000 --> 02:41:27,443
it may be that the for-sale product
moves forward, but one of the multifamily

2503
02:41:27,443 --> 02:41:29,000
buildings comes later.

2504
02:41:29,000 --> 02:41:31,000
so that's what the intent is.

2505
02:41:31,000 --> 02:41:33,000
and the conversation was really

2506
02:41:35,000 --> 02:41:40,000
kind of, once we, the city, those who were
negotiating on behalf of the city, once we

2507
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:41,000
get what we want,

2508
02:41:42,000 --> 02:41:45,037
we don't really care how quickly you build
out your townhomes and your residential

2509
02:41:45,037 --> 02:41:46,000
components of the project.

2510
02:41:46,000 --> 02:41:51,000
so that's why they're elective improvements, is what it's characterized as.

2511
02:41:51,000 --> 02:41:52,000
okay, thanks.

2512
02:41:52,000 --> 02:41:54,000
let me repeat back to you what I think you just said, then.

2513
02:41:54,000 --> 02:41:59,000
the things that are designated there, whether it's apartments, townhomes, or houses,

2514
02:41:59,000 --> 02:42:00,000
that's what's going to be built there.

2515
02:42:00,000 --> 02:42:05,516
it's just they may not be built, you
know, they may be built in a different time

2516
02:42:05,516 --> 02:42:06,000
period.

2517
02:42:06,000 --> 02:42:12,000
yeah, it'll be in response to the market at the time that we're able to, once

2518
02:42:12,000 --> 02:42:16,415
we've met the required components of those
phases, it'll depend on what the market

2519
02:42:16,415 --> 02:42:19,000
looks like at that point
in time on the elective

2520
02:42:19,000 --> 02:42:20,000
improvements.

2521
02:42:20,000 --> 02:42:21,000
I guess that begs another question, then.

2522
02:42:22,000 --> 02:42:24,000
what is the maximum that they could delay, then?

2523
02:42:25,000 --> 02:42:25,000
the maximum, sorry?

2524
02:42:25,000 --> 02:42:27,000
what is the maximum that they could delay that?

2525
02:42:28,000 --> 02:42:29,000
that they could delay that?

2526
02:42:29,000 --> 02:42:33,665
the whole area is supposed to be done in
15 years with an option for five additional

2527
02:42:33,665 --> 02:42:34,000
years.

2528
02:42:34,000 --> 02:42:36,000
I mean, the risk is really on us, right?

2529
02:42:36,000 --> 02:42:41,727
I have no incentive to wait indefinitely,
especially if I'm required to put millions

2530
02:42:41,727 --> 02:42:45,000
of dollars to work in
the required improvements.

2531
02:42:46,000 --> 02:42:53,000
I don't benefit from investing all those dollars and waiting to recoup on the revenue.

2532
02:42:53,000 --> 02:42:56,000
so we're fully incentivized to accelerate that as quickly as possible.

2533
02:42:57,000 --> 02:43:00,000
okay, unfortunately, I have not been able to read the whole da.

2534
02:43:00,000 --> 02:43:00,000
that's fine.

2535
02:43:01,000 --> 02:43:06,594
I guess my intent is, will the whole thing
be finished in 20 years, no more than 20

2536
02:43:06,594 --> 02:43:07,000
years?

2537
02:43:08,000 --> 02:43:10,000
I hope it's well before 20 years.

2538
02:43:11,000 --> 02:43:14,000
is there a mandate to be finished in 20 years?

2539
02:43:14,000 --> 02:43:19,000
no, you can't mandate that they build a certain number of residential units.

2540
02:43:19,000 --> 02:43:19,000
I think that's the point.

2541
02:43:19,000 --> 02:43:23,000
that's what we felt was the fair part of this.

2542
02:43:25,000 --> 02:43:30,939
we're front-loading now all of the
tax-revenue-generating components of the project,

2543
02:43:30,939 --> 02:43:32,000
the affordable,

2544
02:43:32,000 --> 02:43:37,000
all of that is coming in the first two phases as required improvements.

2545
02:43:37,000 --> 02:43:45,847
and so we then are able to build out
the elective improvements when it's market

2546
02:43:45,847 --> 02:43:51,000
feasible, and when we
can do that is dependent

2547
02:43:51,000 --> 02:43:51,000
on the market.

2548
02:43:52,000 --> 02:43:55,234
okay, forgive me, I'm a little bit
gun-shy about this, but we've had so many

2549
02:43:55,234 --> 02:43:56,000
proposals come by.

2550
02:43:56,000 --> 02:43:57,000
first, we got rid of retail.

2551
02:43:58,000 --> 02:44:03,890
now we've gotten rid of all the businesses,
all the office complexes, and things have

2552
02:44:03,890 --> 02:44:05,000
not gotten done.

2553
02:44:05,000 --> 02:44:09,226
so I'm a little, like I said, gun-shy that
this stuff will drag on and on and on,

2554
02:44:09,226 --> 02:44:11,000
because we've
already had 13 years

2555
02:44:11,000 --> 02:44:13,000
of it, and then another 20 on top of that.

2556
02:44:13,000 --> 02:44:15,000
and if it can even go farther than that, it kind of bothers me.

2557
02:44:17,000 --> 02:44:19,000
I appreciate you bringing that up again, because I think it's important.

2558
02:44:19,000 --> 02:44:21,000
the market has spoken.

2559
02:44:22,000 --> 02:44:24,000
there's no demand for a mall here.

2560
02:44:24,000 --> 02:44:27,000
there's no demand for 700,000 square feet of retail.

2561
02:44:27,000 --> 02:44:29,000
there's no demand for office, right?

2562
02:44:29,000 --> 02:44:31,000
there's demand for a hotel.

2563
02:44:31,000 --> 02:44:33,000
I have two hotels that are ready to go.

2564
02:44:33,000 --> 02:44:36,000
I have a lease signed with whole foods, and I have for-sale

2565
02:44:38,000 --> 02:44:41,000
product that's being built in orange county and being acquired.

2566
02:44:42,000 --> 02:44:45,000
so there's an actionable plan that's in front of you today.

2567
02:44:45,000 --> 02:44:48,000
I can't go back in time and change the mall.

2568
02:44:49,000 --> 02:44:50,000
I don't think any of us can, right?

2569
02:44:51,000 --> 02:44:57,000
but there's also a difference between placemaking, which is not equivalent.

2570
02:44:57,000 --> 02:45:00,000
building more retail doesn't make it a better place to hang out.

2571
02:45:01,000 --> 02:45:05,000
in fact, it creates more of a liability for the city in terms of having vacancy.

2572
02:45:05,000 --> 02:45:07,000
and the liability for the developer.

2573
02:45:07,000 --> 02:45:12,000
you can't require more retail to be built than the market can demand.

2574
02:45:12,000 --> 02:45:17,532
and conversely, why we added the second
hotel is because it's a much more efficient

2575
02:45:17,532 --> 02:45:21,000
land use to generate as
much tax revenue as possible

2576
02:45:21,000 --> 02:45:25,000
without overburdening the project with more parking.

2577
02:45:25,000 --> 02:45:28,000
a 100-key hotel is the equivalent of about 200,000 square feet of retail.

2578
02:45:31,000 --> 02:45:33,000
depending on the sales tax revenue.

2579
02:45:33,000 --> 02:45:36,000
and you would have to park 200,000 square feet.

2580
02:45:36,000 --> 02:45:41,665
that would take up all of the valuable land
that we're using for placemaking that the

2581
02:45:41,665 --> 02:45:45,000
community has said that
they want, and the housing

2582
02:45:45,000 --> 02:45:47,000
diversification that the community has said that they want.

2583
02:45:48,000 --> 02:45:49,000
we've done all of that.

2584
02:45:49,000 --> 02:45:52,365
we've taken all of those things into
consideration, and that's the plan that you have

2585
02:45:52,365 --> 02:45:53,000
in front of you.

2586
02:45:54,000 --> 02:46:00,000
and it results in, I don't know how people are saying, $1.5 million in net impact.

2587
02:46:00,000 --> 02:46:03,000
net benefit is $2.3 million.

2588
02:46:03,000 --> 02:46:06,000
both eps and our consultants said the same thing.

2589
02:46:06,000 --> 02:46:09,000
it is a significantly better outcome than what was approved in 2022.

2590
02:46:11,000 --> 02:46:13,000
tot is a much better revenue.

2591
02:46:13,000 --> 02:46:13,000
100%.

2592
02:46:15,000 --> 02:46:17,000
we agree.

2593
02:46:18,000 --> 02:46:19,000
and we have the hotels.

2594
02:46:19,000 --> 02:46:20,000
we're ready to go.

2595
02:46:20,000 --> 02:46:23,000
we have an affordable housing developer ready to go.

2596
02:46:24,000 --> 02:46:29,000
we have retailers that we've been holding off on leasing retail until this

2597
02:46:30,000 --> 02:46:33,000
council approves this project, but they're ready to go.

2598
02:46:33,000 --> 02:46:34,000
they know that whole foods is coming in.

2599
02:46:34,000 --> 02:46:36,000
they know nordstrom rack is getting relocated.

2600
02:46:36,000 --> 02:46:40,000
nordstrom rack could have left a long time ago, and they've stuck this out.

2601
02:46:40,000 --> 02:46:41,000
they've been a good partner of ours.

2602
02:46:41,000 --> 02:46:47,000
so we have a lot of plates that are spinning, and we're ready to go.

2603
02:46:47,000 --> 02:46:52,000
this is, I mean, council member mathis made a really good point.

2604
02:46:52,000 --> 02:46:57,000
paralysis by analysis can kill this project, and we're trying to avoid that.

2605
02:46:59,000 --> 02:47:03,711
hopefully, some of these answers to these
questions can help us get closer to that

2606
02:47:03,711 --> 02:47:04,000
goal.

2607
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:05,000
let me ask another question.

2608
02:47:06,000 --> 02:47:11,000
I'm not in the business, but I've heard rumors that now apartments are going down.

2609
02:47:11,000 --> 02:47:13,000
is that true or not true?

2610
02:47:13,000 --> 02:47:15,000
you probably have your finger on the pulse more than I do.

2611
02:47:16,000 --> 02:47:21,168
it's true that right now, the cost of
construction for multifamily is very high, and

2612
02:47:21,168 --> 02:47:24,000
there's a ceiling on
rents that you can charge

2613
02:47:24,000 --> 02:47:25,000
for market-rate apartments.

2614
02:47:25,000 --> 02:47:29,263
and so in the current environment, where
you have elevated interest rates and you

2615
02:47:29,263 --> 02:47:31,000
have elevated
construction costs,

2616
02:47:32,000 --> 02:47:36,709
there's a reason why you have a lot of
multifamily projects that are currently on

2617
02:47:36,709 --> 02:47:37,000
hold.

2618
02:47:38,000 --> 02:47:43,030
but the for-sale product, you're able to
build at a much lower cost per square foot

2619
02:47:43,030 --> 02:47:46,000
because it's three-story
wood-frame construction.

2620
02:47:46,000 --> 02:47:50,000
it's different when you're building a concrete parking garage.

2621
02:47:51,000 --> 02:47:53,000
it just elevates those costs significantly.

2622
02:47:53,000 --> 02:47:58,000
so yes, today, moving forward with an apartment building is challenging.

2623
02:47:59,000 --> 02:48:01,000
but moving forward with the rest of the project is not.

2624
02:48:02,000 --> 02:48:04,000
I didn't think it was that definitive.

2625
02:48:04,000 --> 02:48:05,000
thank you for sharing that.

2626
02:48:05,000 --> 02:48:08,856
it makes me worry that we might come back
in another three years and say we can't

2627
02:48:08,856 --> 02:48:10,000
build apartments either.

2628
02:48:10,000 --> 02:48:11,000
I'm not sure where we go from that.

2629
02:48:12,000 --> 02:48:12,000
anyway, thank you.

2630
02:48:16,000 --> 02:48:17,000
erica, did you have another question?

2631
02:48:18,000 --> 02:48:19,000
oh, I'm sorry, josh.

2632
02:48:20,000 --> 02:48:21,000
excuse me.

2633
02:48:21,000 --> 02:48:22,000
thank you, chair.

2634
02:48:22,000 --> 02:48:27,000
before I ask my questions, james, do you need a drink?

2635
02:48:27,000 --> 02:48:29,000
no, I'm good.

2636
02:48:29,000 --> 02:48:30,000
I'm going to come over here so I'm facing you.

2637
02:48:32,000 --> 02:48:33,000
all right.

2638
02:48:33,000 --> 02:48:37,049
so I just want to give a little context
to my questions, because obviously I care

2639
02:48:37,049 --> 02:48:39,000
deeply about this
city, and we all know

2640
02:48:39,000 --> 02:48:43,000
how important these 68 acres are for the future of our city.

2641
02:48:44,000 --> 02:48:48,000
and my questions are really just focused on how we can deliver the public benefit

2642
02:48:48,000 --> 02:48:53,120
of this project as soon as possible, and
how we get the revenue-producing pieces

2643
02:48:53,120 --> 02:48:56,000
online, and how we can
create a place for our

2644
02:48:56,000 --> 02:49:01,172
residents to actually enjoy and make
sure the project benefits the city for

2645
02:49:01,172 --> 02:49:02,000
generations.

2646
02:49:02,000 --> 02:49:03,000
all great goals.

2647
02:49:03,000 --> 02:49:05,000
yeah, right?

2648
02:49:05,000 --> 02:49:10,045
with the 2028 olympics coming, that's
top of mind, and I see an opportunity with

2649
02:49:10,045 --> 02:49:12,000
hotel one and the village park.

2650
02:49:13,000 --> 02:49:18,753
so I want to just better understand the
timeline and what we can do to realistically

2651
02:49:18,753 --> 02:49:23,000
get those pieces completed and
generating activity and revenue

2652
02:49:24,000 --> 02:49:25,000
for the city as soon as possible.

2653
02:49:25,000 --> 02:49:31,000
so are residence inn and ac marriott already committed contractually?

2654
02:49:32,000 --> 02:49:36,634
so the obligation in the development
agreement is that we have an upscale

2655
02:49:36,634 --> 02:49:40,000
extended-stay hotel on
hotel 1 and we have an upscale

2656
02:49:40,000 --> 02:49:42,000
hotel on hotel 2.

2657
02:49:42,000 --> 02:49:42,000
okay.

2658
02:49:43,000 --> 02:49:49,274
we are also obligated to provide a memorandum
of the purchase and sale agreement that

2659
02:49:49,274 --> 02:49:54,000
identifies that a franchise
agreement has been signed for a flag

2660
02:49:54,000 --> 02:49:55,000
that meets those requirements.

2661
02:49:55,000 --> 02:49:56,000
okay.

2662
02:49:56,000 --> 02:49:56,000
okay?

2663
02:49:58,000 --> 02:50:01,000
I am not in a position to state the names.

2664
02:50:01,000 --> 02:50:06,000
both of those hotels, by the way, meet those classifications, which is fine, right?

2665
02:50:06,000 --> 02:50:07,000
sure.

2666
02:50:09,000 --> 02:50:12,000
so that's the process that's been set up in the development agreement.

2667
02:50:12,000 --> 02:50:13,000
so we'll have to come back

2668
02:50:14,000 --> 02:50:17,000
and provide a memorandum of purchase and sale that gets recorded.

2669
02:50:19,000 --> 02:50:22,582
because in most contracts, as you know,
leases and purchase and sale agreements,

2670
02:50:22,582 --> 02:50:25,000
there's confidential
information that's shared, right?

2671
02:50:25,000 --> 02:50:28,000
so we agreed to provide a memorandum that gets recorded.

2672
02:50:29,000 --> 02:50:33,000
and we added that it would be after a franchise agreement is signed.

2673
02:50:33,000 --> 02:50:36,000
the franchise agreement is really the key.

2674
02:50:37,000 --> 02:50:44,727
that is validation that the hotel flag has
done their analysis, and they've committed

2675
02:50:44,727 --> 02:50:48,000
to the site and the
hotel developer,

2676
02:50:49,000 --> 02:50:50,000
I talk with my hands.

2677
02:50:51,000 --> 02:50:52,000
my wife gets after me for that.

2678
02:50:55,000 --> 02:51:01,000
has to sign personal guarantees that they will deliver that hotel.

2679
02:51:01,000 --> 02:51:03,000
that's what a franchise agreement means, okay?

2680
02:51:03,000 --> 02:51:08,506
and so for us, like, in terms of giving
assurances to the city that we're going to

2681
02:51:08,506 --> 02:51:12,000
meet the upscale extended-stay,
upscale requirement,

2682
02:51:13,000 --> 02:51:18,000
and that will result in the amount of tot, right, by hitting those,

2683
02:51:20,000 --> 02:51:23,000
that's the assurance that will be provided.

2684
02:51:24,000 --> 02:51:30,021
and that process will have to occur as
part of the phase I and phase ii required

2685
02:51:30,021 --> 02:51:31,000
improvements.

2686
02:51:31,000 --> 02:51:35,000
so before I can move forward to phase I elective improvements,

2687
02:51:36,000 --> 02:51:39,000
or phase ii elective improvements, we have to secure those.

2688
02:51:39,000 --> 02:51:45,456
we do have, and you received a letter from
blackridge, who is the hotel developer,

2689
02:51:45,456 --> 02:51:49,000
who is very well-versed
in hotel development,

2690
02:51:49,000 --> 02:51:56,311
and they actually secured the ac marriott
hotel brand and flag after the first

2691
02:51:56,311 --> 02:51:58,000
entitlement, okay?

2692
02:51:59,000 --> 02:52:00,000
they got ac marriott to commit.

2693
02:52:02,000 --> 02:52:07,041
they're the ones who are now working to
secure and make sure that those upscale flags

2694
02:52:07,041 --> 02:52:09,000
are secured for
these two hotels.

2695
02:52:09,000 --> 02:52:10,000
okay.

2696
02:52:10,000 --> 02:52:10,000
yeah.

2697
02:52:11,000 --> 02:52:12,000
hopefully, that makes sense.

2698
02:52:12,000 --> 02:52:18,147
and they have emphasized their desire for
the first hotel to move forward and to be

2699
02:52:18,147 --> 02:52:22,000
open before the olympics,
so much so that blackridge

2700
02:52:23,000 --> 02:52:28,000
is advancing really on a speculative basis at this point, their plans, as are we.

2701
02:52:29,000 --> 02:52:33,000
we submitted demo plans for the firestone building that were approved.

2702
02:52:34,000 --> 02:52:36,000
we plan on undertaking that work in the next few weeks.

2703
02:52:37,000 --> 02:52:39,000
to make sure that there's nothing that gets in the way.

2704
02:52:39,000 --> 02:52:43,727
so really, I think for blackridge and
ultimately for the hotel flag, it's the

2705
02:52:43,727 --> 02:52:46,000
decision that gets
made here tonight.

2706
02:52:46,000 --> 02:52:50,572
and if there's any indication that there's
going to be further delay, that's what

2707
02:52:50,572 --> 02:52:53,000
kind of would put the
olympics in jeopardy.

2708
02:52:53,000 --> 02:52:53,000
yeah.

2709
02:52:54,000 --> 02:52:58,893
and that brings me to the next thing, because
that exact thing with octa is going to

2710
02:52:58,893 --> 02:53:00,000
put it in jeopardy.

2711
02:53:00,000 --> 02:53:01,000
potentially.

2712
02:53:01,000 --> 02:53:01,000
potentially.

2713
02:53:01,000 --> 02:53:03,000
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, because I think...

2714
02:53:05,000 --> 02:53:10,000
look, if it gets moved slightly on the site, they need to be freeway-adjacent.

2715
02:53:10,000 --> 02:53:11,000
they need to be next to commercial.

2716
02:53:12,000 --> 02:53:15,000
they want to keep the footprint of the building that you've seen here, the design.

2717
02:53:15,000 --> 02:53:18,584
they don't want to redesign the building
that they've already come out of pocket,

2718
02:53:18,584 --> 02:53:20,000
speculatively, to design, right?

2719
02:53:22,000 --> 02:53:27,132
we're fully incentivized to work within
that box, and there aren't many other

2720
02:53:27,132 --> 02:53:31,000
freeway-adjacent sites for a
hotel in south orange county.

2721
02:53:31,000 --> 02:53:34,458
so we think that there's a very high
probability we'll be able to come to a meeting

2722
02:53:34,458 --> 02:53:35,000
of the minds.

2723
02:53:35,000 --> 02:53:40,836
it's just we need to get through this,
and then we can go do that, and we'll come

2724
02:53:40,836 --> 02:53:43,000
back and get it all documented

2725
02:53:43,000 --> 02:53:46,000
so that they continue and not lose time, right?

2726
02:53:47,000 --> 02:53:48,000
and have they already been

2727
02:53:50,000 --> 02:53:53,000
alerted about the octa project?

2728
02:53:53,000 --> 02:53:55,000
yeah, the hotel developer has, absolutely, yeah.

2729
02:53:56,000 --> 02:53:56,000
okay.

2730
02:53:57,000 --> 02:53:58,000
and so they're still willing to work?

2731
02:53:58,000 --> 02:54:00,000
yeah, we've kicked around ideas.

2732
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:03,000
that's why I didn't have a direct answer for council member wheeler.

2733
02:54:03,000 --> 02:54:07,000
we're kicking around ideas, but where it ultimately lands is to be determined.

2734
02:54:07,000 --> 02:54:09,000
okay, yeah, that makes sense.

2735
02:54:11,000 --> 02:54:14,000
and you had said that whole foods has already signed an agreement.

2736
02:54:15,000 --> 02:54:18,000
does nordstrom rack already have this agreement with you?

2737
02:54:18,000 --> 02:54:20,000
yeah, we have with nordstrom rack as well.

2738
02:54:20,000 --> 02:54:21,000
okay, yeah, all right.

2739
02:54:22,000 --> 02:54:26,000
it's just they could have left, but we're signing a new lease with them.

2740
02:54:27,000 --> 02:54:30,000
for various reasons, just to clean up the site plan and everything.

2741
02:54:30,000 --> 02:54:30,000
okay.

2742
02:54:31,000 --> 02:54:31,000
that makes sense.

2743
02:54:32,000 --> 02:54:33,000
all right.

2744
02:54:34,000 --> 02:54:37,000
coming back to my public safety comments,

2745
02:54:41,000 --> 02:54:45,431
will mgp cooperate with the city,
the sheriff's department, ocfa, and

2746
02:54:45,431 --> 02:54:48,000
project-specific
service demand studies?

2747
02:54:48,000 --> 02:54:49,000
absolutely.

2748
02:54:49,000 --> 02:54:49,000
okay.

2749
02:54:49,000 --> 02:54:53,000
anything that's required by code, which the code handles.

2750
02:54:53,000 --> 02:54:56,375
I mean, the building permit approval
process is very lengthy to go through all of

2751
02:54:56,375 --> 02:54:57,000
those channels.

2752
02:54:58,000 --> 02:54:58,000
yeah.

2753
02:54:58,000 --> 02:54:58,000
yeah.

2754
02:54:59,000 --> 02:55:04,340
and let's say ocfa analysis demonstrates
a need for additional emergency response

2755
02:55:04,340 --> 02:55:05,000
resources,

2756
02:55:05,000 --> 02:55:10,372
would mgp participate in discussions
regarding land or facilities or another

2757
02:55:10,372 --> 02:55:12,000
appropriate mitigation?

2758
02:55:12,000 --> 02:55:18,246
I think they usually flag those, and the
fees that we pay usually are the first kind

2759
02:55:18,246 --> 02:55:21,000
of resolution for
any gap in service,

2760
02:55:22,000 --> 02:55:24,000
but we'd have those conversations with them.

2761
02:55:24,000 --> 02:55:25,000
okay.

2762
02:55:25,000 --> 02:55:25,000
yeah.

2763
02:55:26,000 --> 02:55:30,100
I wouldn't foresee that being an issue,
because it hasn't come up to date, even on

2764
02:55:30,100 --> 02:55:31,000
the prior project.

2765
02:55:31,000 --> 02:55:31,000
so, okay.

2766
02:55:35,000 --> 02:55:39,407
I'm going to go back to the senior housing
for a second that I did have a question

2767
02:55:39,407 --> 02:55:40,000
earlier on.

2768
02:55:40,000 --> 02:55:45,360
but has meta housing, so that's been
formally selected, but who selected it, and,

2769
02:55:45,360 --> 02:55:49,000
like, is there currently a
binding agreement with them?

2770
02:55:49,000 --> 02:55:53,000
not a binding agreement currently, but we're working with them toward that end.

2771
02:55:53,000 --> 02:55:55,000
so meta housing, they're here as well.

2772
02:55:55,000 --> 02:55:56,000
they could answer questions.

2773
02:55:56,000 --> 02:56:01,333
but they are an orange county-based
affordable housing developer, been around 30

2774
02:56:01,333 --> 02:56:03,000
years, over 10,000 units.

2775
02:56:06,000 --> 02:56:12,000
very well-versed in navigating the approval process for the subsidy financing.

2776
02:56:12,000 --> 02:56:18,126
and they met with the ad hoc committee
and with staff and with city attorney, and

2777
02:56:18,126 --> 02:56:21,000
that allowed us to
continue with them.

2778
02:56:21,000 --> 02:56:25,000
there is a provision in the da that if, for some reason,

2779
02:56:26,000 --> 02:56:29,655
the deal doesn't move forward with meta,
and there are some parameters that they have

2780
02:56:29,655 --> 02:56:30,000
to meet.

2781
02:56:31,000 --> 02:56:35,559
there's timelines and things like that, that
an alternative developer could come back,

2782
02:56:35,559 --> 02:56:38,000
and they'd have to be
approved by the council.

2783
02:56:38,000 --> 02:56:38,000
perfect.

2784
02:56:38,000 --> 02:56:40,000
that was my second question.

2785
02:56:40,000 --> 02:56:42,000
all right.

2786
02:56:42,000 --> 02:56:43,000
that answers all of that.

2787
02:56:45,000 --> 02:56:46,000
last question for you.

2788
02:56:46,000 --> 02:56:52,630
so from your perspective, what can the city
do without compromising our standards or

2789
02:56:52,630 --> 02:56:55,000
protections to help accelerate

2790
02:56:55,000 --> 02:57:01,681
the hotel, the park, and the revenue-producing
components of this project? Because

2791
02:57:01,681 --> 02:57:06,000
even the park, I know, is
scheduled for phase ii, but

2792
02:57:06,000 --> 02:57:10,740
with it having the nice screen and the watch
area, something like that would also be

2793
02:57:10,740 --> 02:57:13,000
really cool to have
before the olympics,

2794
02:57:14,000 --> 02:57:18,000
but since it's set in phase ii, the likelihood of that happening...

2795
02:57:18,000 --> 02:57:22,322
but is there a possibility of being able to
shift things around a little bit to maybe

2796
02:57:22,322 --> 02:57:24,000
move that up so
that, you know...

2797
02:57:25,000 --> 02:57:31,013
I think it all comes down to permit review
processing timeframes, and there's just

2798
02:57:31,013 --> 02:57:36,000
natural constraints on the turn
of those documents, including review

2799
02:57:36,000 --> 02:57:41,000
by ocfa and other agencies that are outside of the city's purview.

2800
02:57:41,000 --> 02:57:46,472
so I think the best we could do mutually
is just agree to turn those documents

2801
02:57:46,472 --> 02:57:49,000
quickly, and to
the extent that they

2802
02:57:51,000 --> 02:57:57,915
tie out to the plan that's been submitted,
and we had a 300-page submittal document

2803
02:57:57,915 --> 02:57:59,000
that includes

2804
02:58:00,000 --> 02:58:05,913
a lot of detail of what this project will
look like, all the way down to the lighting

2805
02:58:05,913 --> 02:58:08,000
fixtures and things like that.

2806
02:58:08,000 --> 02:58:15,022
as long as we stay within that box, I think
the highest likelihood of ensuring that

2807
02:58:15,022 --> 02:58:19,000
those things happen
sooner rather than later is

2808
02:58:20,000 --> 02:58:24,085
just working together to turn around those
reviews to grant those permits so they can

2809
02:58:24,085 --> 02:58:25,000
start construction.

2810
02:58:26,000 --> 02:58:26,000
right.

2811
02:58:26,000 --> 02:58:26,000
yeah.

2812
02:58:26,000 --> 02:58:27,000
and I get it.

2813
02:58:27,000 --> 02:58:30,000
and there's a lot of it that's out of your control that, you know.

2814
02:58:30,000 --> 02:58:31,000
but we'll do our very best.

2815
02:58:31,000 --> 02:58:36,000
and I think, you know, we've tried to be very responsive throughout this process.

2816
02:58:36,000 --> 02:58:42,538
and as questions and comments and changes
came up, we didn't want to lose time during

2817
02:58:42,538 --> 02:58:44,000
the process either.

2818
02:58:44,000 --> 02:58:46,000
and so, I mean, the team here is phenomenal.

2819
02:58:46,000 --> 02:58:49,000
these are world-class architects and engineers.

2820
02:58:49,000 --> 02:58:52,000
and our team has worked on a lot of these types of projects.

2821
02:58:52,000 --> 02:58:57,000
and the same goes for meta and goes for the hotel developer.

2822
02:58:57,000 --> 02:59:01,847
and everyone's very motivated to move
things forward as quickly as we can and to

2823
02:59:01,847 --> 02:59:05,000
comply with the requirements
of the submittals, too.

2824
02:59:05,000 --> 02:59:10,000
yeah, no, I can definitely tell from what you're doing and how you're going about it.

2825
02:59:10,000 --> 02:59:15,000
and then, obviously, you're working as hard as you can to try to get the hotels.

2826
02:59:15,000 --> 02:59:19,000
so we'll have to work with octa and the whole thing to try to get that done.

2827
02:59:20,000 --> 02:59:28,778
would you be willing to maybe somehow
possibly move the park to phase I somehow, or

2828
02:59:28,778 --> 02:59:31,000
is that not possible?

2829
02:59:31,000 --> 02:59:31,000
I don't know.

2830
02:59:31,000 --> 02:59:36,000
I'm just trying to think, again, you know,
how we can try to speed things up if there

2831
02:59:36,000 --> 02:59:37,000
is a possibility.

2832
02:59:37,000 --> 02:59:43,665
I mean, we can't change the natural
constraints of how quickly we could move

2833
02:59:43,665 --> 02:59:47,000
nordstrom rack and
demo that building.

2834
02:59:47,000 --> 02:59:48,000
okay.

2835
02:59:48,000 --> 02:59:54,367
what I could envision would be, depending
on when that happens relative to the

2836
02:59:54,367 --> 03:00:00,000
olympics, some other type of
temporary installation, gathering place.

2837
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:01,000
I've seen that before.

2838
03:00:01,000 --> 03:00:06,000
just working with the complexities of the construction on site and making sure that...

2839
03:00:07,000 --> 03:00:11,549
you're out of the way, it becomes challenging,
but, I mean, it's something we can

2840
03:00:11,549 --> 03:00:12,000
look at.

2841
03:00:12,000 --> 03:00:16,315
you've seen we get pretty creative from a
temporary occupancy perspective with all

2842
03:00:16,315 --> 03:00:20,000
the circuses and stuff, so we could
probably figure something out, you

2843
03:00:20,000 --> 03:00:20,000
know?

2844
03:00:20,000 --> 03:00:20,000
yeah.

2845
03:00:20,000 --> 03:00:23,000
I think that's a great opportunity, though, to take advantage of.

2846
03:00:23,000 --> 03:00:24,000
yeah, it's a huge opportunity.

2847
03:00:24,000 --> 03:00:27,000
so, yeah, I appreciate that.

2848
03:00:27,000 --> 03:00:28,000
that's all the questions I got.

2849
03:00:29,000 --> 03:00:29,000
I appreciate it.

2850
03:00:29,000 --> 03:00:30,000
thank you.

2851
03:00:30,000 --> 03:00:34,574
I'm going to move to josh, because the side
of the dais has not had its due quite yet,

2852
03:00:34,574 --> 03:00:35,000
and then

2853
03:00:35,000 --> 03:00:36,000
we'll come back to erica.

2854
03:00:37,000 --> 03:00:37,000
okay.

2855
03:00:38,000 --> 03:00:38,000
thank you, mr.

2856
03:00:38,000 --> 03:00:38,000
mayor.

2857
03:00:40,000 --> 03:00:44,000
quickly, two minutes or less, either from you or from meta.

2858
03:00:45,000 --> 03:00:49,989
it's been referenced a bunch about the
portal, the time window, the queue to be able

2859
03:00:49,989 --> 03:00:51,000
to get financing.

2860
03:00:52,000 --> 03:00:57,000
can you just speak to the kind of the urgency of that or the process of that, and then

2861
03:00:57,000 --> 03:01:01,549
also just reflect on your level of confidence
based on the characteristics of the

2862
03:01:01,549 --> 03:01:02,000
project?

2863
03:01:02,000 --> 03:01:03,000
yeah.

2864
03:01:03,000 --> 03:01:04,000
I like casey.

2865
03:01:04,000 --> 03:01:05,000
casey burke with meta housing.

2866
03:01:06,000 --> 03:01:06,000
yeah.

2867
03:01:06,000 --> 03:01:07,000
excuse me.

2868
03:01:07,000 --> 03:01:07,000
thank you, mr.

2869
03:01:07,000 --> 03:01:08,000
mayor.

2870
03:01:08,000 --> 03:01:09,000
I'm going to sit down for a second.

2871
03:01:09,000 --> 03:01:09,000
yeah.

2872
03:01:09,000 --> 03:01:10,000
go ahead.

2873
03:01:10,000 --> 03:01:10,000
take a break.

2874
03:01:10,000 --> 03:01:11,000
you're doing a good job.

2875
03:01:12,000 --> 03:01:12,000
mr.

2876
03:01:12,000 --> 03:01:13,000
mayor, mr.

2877
03:01:13,000 --> 03:01:15,000
mayor pro tem, and council, thank you.

2878
03:01:15,000 --> 03:01:16,000
my name is casey burke.

2879
03:01:16,000 --> 03:01:17,000
I'm president of meta housing.

2880
03:01:18,000 --> 03:01:19,000
we're an affordable housing developer.

2881
03:01:19,000 --> 03:01:21,000
been around for over 30 years.

2882
03:01:22,000 --> 03:01:28,000
and we've built over 100 communities in california and about 12,000 units.

2883
03:01:28,000 --> 03:01:32,885
so with regards to the timing of this,
the way that affordable housing deals get

2884
03:01:32,885 --> 03:01:36,000
financed is really with an
allocation of tax-exempt

2885
03:01:36,000 --> 03:01:38,000
bonds and an allocation of tax credits, both coming

2886
03:01:39,000 --> 03:01:42,000
really federally and then allocated by the state.

2887
03:01:43,000 --> 03:01:46,000
they have three funding rounds typically in a given year.

2888
03:01:46,000 --> 03:01:48,000
the first two have already passed.

2889
03:01:48,000 --> 03:01:49,000
the next one is in september.

2890
03:01:49,000 --> 03:01:53,000
so in order to submit, you have to have certain threshold criteria in place.

2891
03:01:54,000 --> 03:01:55,000
you have to have site control.

2892
03:01:55,000 --> 03:01:57,000
you have to have an entitled project.

2893
03:01:58,000 --> 03:01:59,000
you have to have plans.

2894
03:02:00,000 --> 03:02:05,000
and so your units laid out, your number of units, your bedroom count,

2895
03:02:06,000 --> 03:02:08,000
your parking, everything has to be ready to go and submitted.

2896
03:02:08,000 --> 03:02:10,000
so that's in september.

2897
03:02:12,000 --> 03:02:16,948
if we miss september, you now trickle
into next year, which is a whole different

2898
03:02:16,948 --> 03:02:18,000
regulatory cycle.

2899
03:02:18,000 --> 03:02:21,000
the budget changes, the regulations change,

2900
03:02:21,000 --> 03:02:24,000
there are certain designations with this site that could change.

2901
03:02:24,000 --> 03:02:31,000
it's currently located in a dda, which gets you a 30% boost on your tax credits.

2902
03:02:31,000 --> 03:02:32,000
it changes annually.

2903
03:02:32,000 --> 03:02:34,000
you just don't know what's going to happen there.

2904
03:02:35,000 --> 03:02:37,000
our confidence level, to speak to that,

2905
03:02:38,000 --> 03:02:40,000
I would say we're very optimistic.

2906
03:02:40,000 --> 03:02:44,799
we wouldn't be this focused and this energized
and excited about this partnership if

2907
03:02:44,799 --> 03:02:48,000
we weren't optimistic that
in this third round, we think

2908
03:02:48,000 --> 03:02:52,590
we can secure for this development and
for the city an allocation of credits and

2909
03:02:52,590 --> 03:02:55,000
bonds that would allow
us to move forward.

2910
03:02:56,000 --> 03:02:58,000
the application is in september.

2911
03:02:59,000 --> 03:03:03,352
the awards would be made in december, and
then we would start construction roughly

2912
03:03:03,352 --> 03:03:05,000
six to seven months after that.

2913
03:03:05,000 --> 03:03:10,120
so if successful, we'd be under construction
about this time next year with the

2914
03:03:10,120 --> 03:03:12,000
affordable component of that.

2915
03:03:12,000 --> 03:03:12,000
that's helpful.

2916
03:03:13,000 --> 03:03:20,040
and if we miss september, or what is
the likelihood of missing september if this

2917
03:03:20,040 --> 03:03:24,000
decision gets pushed
off to august or beyond?

2918
03:03:28,000 --> 03:03:30,000
if the decision tonight were to get pushed off to august,

2919
03:03:31,000 --> 03:03:36,000
I don't know all of the technical elements of appeals and things like that.

2920
03:03:36,000 --> 03:03:41,000
we have to be entitled with the expiration of any appeal period by september 8th.

2921
03:03:42,000 --> 03:03:44,000
that's the application deadline for us.

2922
03:03:45,000 --> 03:03:50,650
and then if we miss that, the next one
would be roughly february or march of next

2923
03:03:50,650 --> 03:03:51,000
year.

2924
03:03:51,000 --> 03:03:56,000
but I don't want to get too technical on you and, like, spin your heads,

2925
03:03:56,000 --> 03:03:59,000
but it has to do with the tax credits and the bonds that are available in each round.

2926
03:03:59,000 --> 03:04:03,000
and round one of next year will look very different than round three of this year.

2927
03:04:04,000 --> 03:04:07,856
and this project's ability to compete, I'm
much more optimistic about round three

2928
03:04:07,856 --> 03:04:09,000
than I would be about...

2929
03:04:09,000 --> 03:04:12,000
we know the variables going into this next round.

2930
03:04:12,000 --> 03:04:14,000
we don't know the variables going into next year.

2931
03:04:14,000 --> 03:04:15,000
that's right.

2932
03:04:15,000 --> 03:04:15,000
okay.

2933
03:04:15,000 --> 03:04:19,317
well, we actually do know some of the
variables, and they would decrease our

2934
03:04:19,317 --> 03:04:20,000
probability.

2935
03:04:20,000 --> 03:04:20,000
got it.

2936
03:04:20,000 --> 03:04:21,000
so...

2937
03:04:21,000 --> 03:04:21,000
okay.

2938
03:04:22,000 --> 03:04:23,000
all my questions, thank you.

2939
03:04:25,000 --> 03:04:27,000
I'll just add one since we're on this subject.

2940
03:04:27,000 --> 03:04:33,836
so one of the major things that makes it
possible for you to do, as I understand it,

2941
03:04:33,836 --> 03:04:34,000
is

2942
03:04:34,000 --> 03:04:39,168
that the applicant would be actually changing
the ownership of that piece of land to

2943
03:04:39,168 --> 03:04:42,000
you as a developer, and
that's one of the main

2944
03:04:43,000 --> 03:04:46,000
incentives that makes it work for you financially, correct?

2945
03:04:47,000 --> 03:04:49,000
or am I making that too simple?

2946
03:04:50,000 --> 03:04:51,000
no, that's correct.

2947
03:04:51,000 --> 03:04:53,000
we would ultimately have to be the owner of the property.

2948
03:04:54,000 --> 03:04:58,000
so we would enter into a purchase and sale agreement for the land with merlone geier.

2949
03:04:58,000 --> 03:05:02,000
they would, upon us receiving an award and moving towards a construction loan closing,

2950
03:05:03,000 --> 03:05:07,000
they would have to transfer title to us and to our partnership that would build that.

2951
03:05:07,000 --> 03:05:10,000
and ultimately, we'd bring in our tax credit investor.

2952
03:05:10,000 --> 03:05:10,000
we would bring in our

2953
03:05:11,000 --> 03:05:14,000
social service partner, you know, and together.

2954
03:05:14,000 --> 03:05:24,084
we're all going to operate the development,
but we have to own it. Thank you. Back to

2955
03:05:24,084 --> 03:05:28,000
erica next. All
right, well, it's

2956
03:05:29,000 --> 03:05:35,000
good that you're up because I have a couple
of questions. So how many buildings have

2957
03:05:35,000 --> 03:05:38,000
you built that are all
low-income housing?

2958
03:05:41,000 --> 03:05:41,000
over 100.

2959
03:05:41,000 --> 03:05:41,000
okay.

2960
03:05:43,000 --> 03:05:45,000
how old are the buildings now?

2961
03:05:46,000 --> 03:05:50,000
I mean, well, they range in everything.

2962
03:05:50,000 --> 03:05:52,000
so we're an active builder right now.

2963
03:05:52,000 --> 03:05:55,817
so we have about 10 communities under
construction, probably about 1,800 units right

2964
03:05:55,817 --> 03:05:56,000
now.

2965
03:05:57,000 --> 03:05:59,000
we built about 1,000 units last year.

2966
03:05:59,000 --> 03:06:01,000
we probably built about 600 units the year before that.

2967
03:06:02,000 --> 03:06:03,000
we've built over 12,000 units.

2968
03:06:05,000 --> 03:06:05,000
that's all we do.

2969
03:06:06,000 --> 03:06:06,000
we are a niche organization.

2970
03:06:07,000 --> 03:06:09,000
so we partner with folks like merlone geier.

2971
03:06:09,000 --> 03:06:10,000
we've partnered with lennar.

2972
03:06:10,000 --> 03:06:12,000
we've partnered with shea homes.

2973
03:06:12,000 --> 03:06:18,194
we've partnered with homefed in san
diego, with mckinley partners up north in

2974
03:06:18,194 --> 03:06:19,000
fairfield.

2975
03:06:19,000 --> 03:06:23,823
we've also gone with not with an inclusionary
housing ms, just infill sites on our

2976
03:06:23,823 --> 03:06:26,000
own out there,
and this is all we do.

2977
03:06:26,000 --> 03:06:28,000
we only do 100% affordable housing.

2978
03:06:29,000 --> 03:06:30,000
we do family.

2979
03:06:30,000 --> 03:06:31,000
we do senior.

2980
03:06:31,000 --> 03:06:32,000
we do homeless housing.

2981
03:06:32,000 --> 03:06:34,000
we do an array of tenant populations.

2982
03:06:35,000 --> 03:06:37,000
okay, who manages the property?

2983
03:06:37,000 --> 03:06:38,000
do you manage the property afterwards?

2984
03:06:39,000 --> 03:06:41,000
we contract with third-party property managers.

2985
03:06:41,000 --> 03:06:44,000
we currently are working with five different property managers.

2986
03:06:44,000 --> 03:06:45,000
it depends on location.

2987
03:06:45,000 --> 03:06:47,000
it depends on tenant population.

2988
03:06:48,000 --> 03:06:52,000
we really work to find the right property manager.

2989
03:06:52,000 --> 03:06:57,000
all the ones we've worked with, we've worked with for many, many years.

2990
03:06:58,000 --> 03:06:58,000
okay.

2991
03:07:05,000 --> 03:07:10,724
so you work with the property management
individuals, and how is the maintenance on

2992
03:07:10,724 --> 03:07:15,000
these properties, like if you're
not receiving as much income?

2993
03:07:16,000 --> 03:07:18,000
how are you able to maintain these properties?

2994
03:07:18,000 --> 03:07:23,581
well, we really underwrite these from
day one the same way a market-rate builder

2995
03:07:23,581 --> 03:07:24,000
would.

2996
03:07:25,000 --> 03:07:29,000
so our operating expenses are really no less than a market-rate building.

2997
03:07:29,000 --> 03:07:35,415
we're putting the same level of investment
annually back into these, into the

2998
03:07:35,415 --> 03:07:38,000
communities and the apartments.

2999
03:07:38,000 --> 03:07:41,000
the revenue side is a little lower, which ultimately hits the bottom line,

3000
03:07:41,000 --> 03:07:43,000
which is why you need the tax credits and the tax-exempt bonds.

3001
03:07:44,000 --> 03:07:46,000
so the subsidies really come in on the front end, not on the back end.

3002
03:07:48,000 --> 03:07:49,000
you guys won't be able to tell a difference.

3003
03:07:49,000 --> 03:07:53,000
you won't be able to drive by this building and think, there's the affordable one.

3004
03:07:53,000 --> 03:07:56,207
it's going to be designed with the same
architectural standards that the market rates

3005
03:07:56,207 --> 03:07:57,000
are being built with.

3006
03:07:58,000 --> 03:07:59,000
it's going to be designed by this team.

3007
03:07:59,000 --> 03:08:01,000
these guys are all going to care what this looks like.

3008
03:08:01,000 --> 03:08:03,000
it's going to be integrated within the community.

3009
03:08:04,000 --> 03:08:05,000
you won't even know

3010
03:08:06,000 --> 03:08:08,000
that it's affordable versus the market rate.

3011
03:08:08,000 --> 03:08:14,000
in addition, senior developments, senior communities, wear much less than family.

3012
03:08:14,000 --> 03:08:15,000
they just do.

3013
03:08:16,000 --> 03:08:18,620
to your point about nine-year-olds
with a lot of energy, I have four kids, I

3014
03:08:18,620 --> 03:08:19,000
understand.

3015
03:08:20,000 --> 03:08:22,000
they tend to beat up the buildings a little more.

3016
03:08:22,000 --> 03:08:24,000
you have to design them a little bit differently.

3017
03:08:25,000 --> 03:08:28,684
you have to make sure that they have the
appropriate outdoor space to release that

3018
03:08:28,684 --> 03:08:29,000
energy.

3019
03:08:29,000 --> 03:08:31,000
we're talking about a senior community here.

3020
03:08:31,000 --> 03:08:35,941
the turnover is very low in senior communities,
and the maintenance and the wear and

3021
03:08:35,941 --> 03:08:37,000
tear are very low.

3022
03:08:38,000 --> 03:08:40,000
and we build an appropriate amount

3023
03:08:41,000 --> 03:08:42,000
of community space into these.

3024
03:08:42,000 --> 03:08:47,477
we offer on-site social services for the
residents: health and wellness classes, art

3025
03:08:47,477 --> 03:08:48,000
classes.

3026
03:08:49,000 --> 03:08:54,000
so it's a community that they ultimately are proud of, that they want to take care of.

3027
03:08:54,000 --> 03:08:55,000
they don't want to leave.

3028
03:08:56,000 --> 03:08:58,000
it'll be beautiful for a very long time.

3029
03:08:59,000 --> 03:09:02,000
so I'm going to go back to the other question that I have.

3030
03:09:04,000 --> 03:09:15,200
are you concerned about being next to a bus
station where maybe the noise levels are

3031
03:09:15,200 --> 03:09:20,000
louder, the
individuals are, I mean,

3032
03:09:20,000 --> 03:09:26,427
homeless, who suffer from mental illness?
You just don't know. What other protections

3033
03:09:26,427 --> 03:09:29,000
for these residents?
What happens?

3034
03:09:29,000 --> 03:09:32,000
yeah, so the short answer is no.

3035
03:09:32,000 --> 03:09:32,000
I'm not concerned.

3036
03:09:33,000 --> 03:09:34,000
I think this is an incredible site.

3037
03:09:35,000 --> 03:09:36,000
I think this is an incredible community.

3038
03:09:36,000 --> 03:09:38,000
I think that the design is beautiful.

3039
03:09:38,000 --> 03:09:43,612
I think the level of amenities that are
going to be available to the residents of

3040
03:09:43,612 --> 03:09:45,000
this is outstanding,

3041
03:09:45,000 --> 03:09:49,284
probably better than you would find in most
affordable housing communities, wherever

3042
03:09:49,284 --> 03:09:50,000
they're built.

3043
03:09:51,000 --> 03:09:54,000
we've built over 1,200 homeless units, psh housing.

3044
03:09:54,000 --> 03:09:55,000
so we've built for veterans.

3045
03:09:55,000 --> 03:09:58,000
we've built for at risk of homelessness, homelessness.

3046
03:09:59,000 --> 03:10:03,000
we kind of understand the tenant population and what that requires.

3047
03:10:03,000 --> 03:10:08,314
we've built, I mean, right in the heart of
skid row and have been able to keep our

3048
03:10:08,314 --> 03:10:10,000
residents safe and secure.

3049
03:10:11,000 --> 03:10:16,000
we will, as we get into the design of this with the architects and the engineers,

3050
03:10:16,000 --> 03:10:21,845
we'll look at the transit center there
and make sure that we've got whatever

3051
03:10:21,845 --> 03:10:25,000
appropriate security
measures are needed,

3052
03:10:25,000 --> 03:10:27,000
whatever needs to be integrated with the management company.

3053
03:10:27,000 --> 03:10:30,636
I actually see that as an amenity, having
that transit center available to them,

3054
03:10:30,636 --> 03:10:32,000
having the hospital available,

3055
03:10:32,000 --> 03:10:34,000
all the shopping that's going to be there.

3056
03:10:35,000 --> 03:10:37,000
I'm really not concerned about that.

3057
03:10:37,000 --> 03:10:42,000
I do think we need to be aware of it and be mindful, and we will be in the design.

3058
03:10:42,000 --> 03:10:47,950
but long term, if you could see where a lot
of affordable housing is built, this is a

3059
03:10:47,950 --> 03:10:49,000
beautiful site.

3060
03:10:50,000 --> 03:10:51,000
I understand.

3061
03:10:52,000 --> 03:10:56,000
at the same time, you have the hospital that's also in walking distance.

3062
03:10:56,000 --> 03:11:00,000
and I don't know if you've been in the er at certain hours.

3063
03:11:01,000 --> 03:11:08,686
it can be, because the homeless challenges
are extremely difficult in the state of

3064
03:11:08,686 --> 03:11:13,000
california with a lack
of mental institutions.

3065
03:11:13,000 --> 03:11:21,000
we have the increase with the hospital and with the homeless shelter in laguna beach.

3066
03:11:22,000 --> 03:11:26,000
and so we sort of get a double whammy in that one location.

3067
03:11:27,000 --> 03:11:31,000
so with individuals needing that go to the hospital.

3068
03:11:32,000 --> 03:11:33,000
okay.

3069
03:11:33,000 --> 03:11:34,000
all right.

3070
03:11:35,000 --> 03:11:36,000
thank you.

3071
03:11:36,000 --> 03:11:36,000
thank you.

3072
03:11:36,000 --> 03:11:41,000
I do have some more questions for the developer.

3073
03:11:41,000 --> 03:11:42,000
okay.

3074
03:11:42,000 --> 03:11:43,000
thank you very much.

3075
03:11:43,000 --> 03:11:46,000
thank you.

3076
03:11:46,000 --> 03:11:47,000
okay.

3077
03:11:47,000 --> 03:11:50,000
so the last time...

3078
03:11:51,000 --> 03:11:58,000
one of the many times that you've approached the city asking for entitlements.

3079
03:12:00,000 --> 03:12:01,000
I felt that jab there.

3080
03:12:01,000 --> 03:12:02,000
what's that?

3081
03:12:02,000 --> 03:12:03,000
I felt that jab there.

3082
03:12:03,000 --> 03:12:06,000
did that feel good?

3083
03:12:06,000 --> 03:12:08,000
hey facts are facts.

3084
03:12:09,000 --> 03:12:10,000
not all our doing.

3085
03:12:13,000 --> 03:12:14,000
I just...

3086
03:12:14,000 --> 03:12:14,000
so...

3087
03:12:17,000 --> 03:12:19,000
you had mentioned that there was a hotel.

3088
03:12:19,000 --> 03:12:22,000
is it the same hotel, or is this different?

3089
03:12:24,000 --> 03:12:29,134
I think I answered the question as well
as I could, given the restrictions that I'm

3090
03:12:29,134 --> 03:12:30,000
working under.

3091
03:12:30,000 --> 03:12:30,000
okay.

3092
03:12:31,000 --> 03:12:31,000
so, okay.

3093
03:12:31,000 --> 03:12:32,000
so, all right.

3094
03:12:33,000 --> 03:12:35,000
it will be an upscale hotel that you will love.

3095
03:12:37,000 --> 03:12:38,000
and the shops that...

3096
03:12:39,000 --> 03:12:44,290
you mentioned that you had a number of—well,
it wasn't you, actually, that came, I

3097
03:12:44,290 --> 03:12:45,000
must admit.

3098
03:12:45,000 --> 03:12:46,000
it wasn't me.

3099
03:12:46,000 --> 03:12:46,000
somebody else?

3100
03:12:47,000 --> 03:12:48,000
it was not me.

3101
03:12:49,000 --> 03:12:55,000
there were a number of shops, and those shops seemed to be gone.

3102
03:12:55,000 --> 03:12:59,000
what sort of assurances do we have that—

3103
03:13:02,000 --> 03:13:07,702
hopefully whole foods will actually
be there? What assurances do we have?

3104
03:13:07,702 --> 03:13:12,000
so, as part of the da, we
agreed to record a memorandum

3105
03:13:12,000 --> 03:13:19,567
of that lease that will be provided to meet
the required phase 1 improvements, so you

3106
03:13:19,567 --> 03:13:25,000
will have a memorandum recorded
demonstrating that that lease

3107
03:13:25,000 --> 03:13:28,000
with whole foods exists. We've shown the lease to

3108
03:13:29,000 --> 03:13:31,534
your legal team.
They've seen the lease.

3109
03:13:31,534 --> 03:13:36,604
it's been signed, and we've already
submitted our plans for that building shell.

3110
03:13:36,604 --> 03:13:38,000
actually, it's in plan

3111
03:13:38,000 --> 03:13:45,200
review right now, so we would not spend
that money or agree to those things as

3112
03:13:45,200 --> 03:13:50,000
conditions that we have
to meet to be able to unlock

3113
03:13:50,000 --> 03:13:55,000
the phase 1 elective improvements if we didn't have that lease.

3114
03:13:56,000 --> 03:13:58,000
and the same goes for the retail leasing around that.

3115
03:13:59,000 --> 03:14:00,000
we have...

3116
03:14:02,000 --> 03:14:08,218
lists of tenants who've been interested in
this project, and the feedback we've given

3117
03:14:08,218 --> 03:14:11,000
them, and that a
lot of them have said

3118
03:14:11,000 --> 03:14:16,906
to us is, once you have your entitlements
and we know there's a path moving forward,

3119
03:14:16,906 --> 03:14:20,000
then let's reengage.
So we're very confident

3120
03:14:20,000 --> 03:14:25,129
leasing around whole foods and nordstrom
rack is a good problem to have. They're very

3121
03:14:25,129 --> 03:14:27,000
quality anchors for the retail.

3122
03:14:28,000 --> 03:14:30,000
okay, so a couple of questions that I have.

3123
03:14:30,000 --> 03:14:36,665
so the economic vitality, this uvsp, it
is defined, it's been studied that this is

3124
03:14:36,665 --> 03:14:40,000
the economic vitality
of the entire city.

3125
03:14:41,000 --> 03:14:43,000
essentially, it's supposed to be the feeder of the city.

3126
03:14:44,000 --> 03:14:46,000
so it's supposed to be a feeder of funds to the city.

3127
03:14:47,000 --> 03:14:50,000
it's supposed to enhance the quality of life for residents.

3128
03:14:53,000 --> 03:14:55,000
and given this project, it

3129
03:14:56,000 --> 03:15:02,545
there is an increase, a substantial
increase, of residents without the increased

3130
03:15:02,545 --> 03:15:05,000
appropriate numbers of retail.

3131
03:15:06,000 --> 03:15:09,000
what happens if the quality of life decreases?

3132
03:15:09,000 --> 03:15:16,000
we can't afford officers, and your shopping center becomes an attraction for

3133
03:15:20,000 --> 03:15:25,486
what happens if we are unable to take care
of that shopping center because we don't

3134
03:15:25,486 --> 03:15:28,000
have funds to take
care of the center?

3135
03:15:29,000 --> 03:15:36,871
so you're—I don't know if you're trying to
make a connection between the number of

3136
03:15:36,871 --> 03:15:41,000
households and the
viability of the retail.

3137
03:15:41,000 --> 03:15:42,000
is that what you're—

3138
03:15:43,000 --> 03:15:47,684
the commercial brings in a higher percentage
of funding to the city, so commercial

3139
03:15:47,684 --> 03:15:51,000
brings in a higher amount of
funding. We had a significant

3140
03:15:51,000 --> 03:15:58,545
amount, and one thing that isn't mentioned
is what the funding would be today, with

3141
03:15:58,545 --> 03:16:03,000
inflation, from the mall
revenue. And so the past

3142
03:16:03,000 --> 03:16:09,479
mall revenue and the sales tax brought
in a huge amount of revenue, and we didn't

3143
03:16:09,479 --> 03:16:15,000
have an extra population to pay
for the infrastructure, the services.

3144
03:16:16,000 --> 03:16:24,576
so we didn't have that prior, and now this
plan introduces a population increase with

3145
03:16:24,576 --> 03:16:27,000
a huge revenue decrease.

3146
03:16:28,000 --> 03:16:34,000
what happens to your center if we cannot pay for, I mean,

3147
03:16:34,000 --> 03:16:40,000
we're already struggling as it is with $2 million of revenue loss over the years,

3148
03:16:41,000 --> 03:16:46,049
and I know that you have provided funding
through the development agreement, but that

3149
03:16:46,049 --> 03:16:47,000
funding has gone

3150
03:16:47,000 --> 03:16:50,000
quickly because we've needed the revenue.

3151
03:16:50,000 --> 03:16:54,375
and we don't have—I see in the development
agreement, you're not willing to pay more

3152
03:16:54,375 --> 03:16:55,000
to the city.

3153
03:16:55,000 --> 03:16:57,000
so you're not willing to pay more for that.

3154
03:16:57,000 --> 03:17:01,000
there will be $2.9 million more of fees in this project.

3155
03:17:03,000 --> 03:17:04,000
it's 2.9.

3156
03:17:04,000 --> 03:17:07,000
and a reset of the clock, essentially.

3157
03:17:09,000 --> 03:17:10,000
to a certain extent.

3158
03:17:12,000 --> 03:17:12,000
yeah.

3159
03:17:12,000 --> 03:17:16,000
a new development agreement, brand-new, brand-new in

3160
03:17:17,000 --> 03:17:19,000
it seems brand-new entitlements.

3161
03:17:20,000 --> 03:17:24,445
I'm just wondering, if we can't afford to
take care of the center, why would you be

3162
03:17:24,445 --> 03:17:26,000
entitled to more safety if we

3163
03:17:26,000 --> 03:17:30,000
don't have the money, and how, if it's taking away?

3164
03:17:30,000 --> 03:17:34,000
if this area takes away from the existing residents, and

3165
03:17:35,000 --> 03:17:36,000
what's your question?

3166
03:17:36,000 --> 03:17:41,000
is it related to the fiscal impact analysis?

3167
03:17:41,000 --> 03:17:42,000
yes, I'm just wondering.

3168
03:17:42,000 --> 03:17:50,109
I mean, you, as a commercial developer,
you want to be in cities that are safe, my

3169
03:17:50,109 --> 03:17:51,000
guess is.

3170
03:17:51,000 --> 03:17:56,000
you want to have your commercial properties in areas that are—

3171
03:18:00,000 --> 03:18:06,984
so I don't see anything in the analysis
that's been done that suggests that this

3172
03:18:06,984 --> 03:18:11,000
won't be a safe project
or that the households

3173
03:18:11,000 --> 03:18:17,338
who are going to have the incomes that they
will need to afford to buy the new homes

3174
03:18:17,338 --> 03:18:19,000
or to rent the market-

3175
03:18:19,000 --> 03:18:24,000
rate apartments, that they're in some way going to be a drain on

3176
03:18:25,000 --> 03:18:26,000
the community.

3177
03:18:27,000 --> 03:18:31,378
there's been nothing that we've seen in
any of the analysis or any of the studies

3178
03:18:31,378 --> 03:18:33,000
that suggests that's the case.

3179
03:18:33,000 --> 03:18:37,000
so what you're projecting could occur.

3180
03:18:37,000 --> 03:18:42,000
I don't know how to respond to that question.

3181
03:18:42,000 --> 03:18:45,000
I don't see a connection.

3182
03:18:45,000 --> 03:18:49,000
what I do know is that you have a lot of really smart people that the city

3183
03:18:50,000 --> 03:18:54,484
has on staff or as consultants that have
looked at this project every which way to

3184
03:18:54,484 --> 03:18:57,000
sunday, and they are
confident that it's going

3185
03:18:57,000 --> 03:19:02,554
to be a good thing for the city. And as
a developer, we're comfortable with the

3186
03:19:02,554 --> 03:19:06,000
development agreement
and the rules of engagement

3187
03:19:06,000 --> 03:19:10,826
that it establishes, that it will be a
financeable project that can be executed.

3188
03:19:10,826 --> 03:19:13,000
that's all that I
know. I don't know

3189
03:19:14,000 --> 03:19:17,000
these, you know, scenarios that could potentially play out.

3190
03:19:17,000 --> 03:19:22,371
there's always a scenario that could
potentially play out, but it hasn't been

3191
03:19:22,371 --> 03:19:23,000
analyzed,

3192
03:19:23,000 --> 03:19:28,000
and I don't think it's the basis for our decisions moving forward,

3193
03:19:28,000 --> 03:19:33,061
and I don't think it's the recommendation
of staff or of the consultants that you

3194
03:19:33,061 --> 03:19:37,000
guys have hired that those
should be overriding considerations.

3195
03:19:39,000 --> 03:19:39,000
I understand.

3196
03:19:39,000 --> 03:19:42,000
it's just the reality of where we're at.

3197
03:19:43,000 --> 03:19:44,000
well, I don't know about a reality.

3198
03:19:44,000 --> 03:19:48,000
I don't hear anything you just said that sounds like reality necessarily.

3199
03:19:48,000 --> 03:19:51,000
I need to, I need to—okay.

3200
03:19:52,000 --> 03:19:55,000
as chair of this, I'm going to interrupt a little bit, gently.

3201
03:19:57,000 --> 03:20:00,000
I feel like I'm watching jeopardy on tv.

3202
03:20:01,000 --> 03:20:07,521
and I feel like all you have to do in
making an accusation is to frame your

3203
03:20:07,521 --> 03:20:11,000
accusation as a
question, like the show.

3204
03:20:12,000 --> 03:20:18,909
and I don't know that a lot of these questions,
from my viewpoint, are really focused

3205
03:20:18,909 --> 03:20:22,000
on the development,
your presentation,

3206
03:20:22,000 --> 03:20:23,000
and what you're doing.

3207
03:20:24,000 --> 03:20:25,000
a lot of what-ifs.

3208
03:20:25,000 --> 03:20:26,000
what if the world stops?

3209
03:20:27,000 --> 03:20:30,000
what if we're hit by a meteor next year?

3210
03:20:30,000 --> 03:20:39,000
and so I would just ask the council to refocus as much as possible on this project.

3211
03:20:40,000 --> 03:20:42,000
and let's try to move forward.

3212
03:20:43,000 --> 03:20:48,000
and this was just questions of staff and questions of the presenter.

3213
03:20:49,000 --> 03:20:51,000
and I'd like to be courteous to both.

3214
03:20:53,000 --> 03:21:01,494
and so I'm gently asking council members
in general just to, you know, be mindful of

3215
03:21:01,494 --> 03:21:02,000
that.

3216
03:21:03,000 --> 03:21:09,614
I feel like we're taking this into
deliberations and all kinds of debate when these

3217
03:21:09,614 --> 03:21:14,000
are supposed to be simple
clarifications and questions.

3218
03:21:15,000 --> 03:21:18,000
the concerns of fiscal impact of the city and how that's on our heads.

3219
03:21:18,000 --> 03:21:19,000
you know what, I've already said.

3220
03:21:21,000 --> 03:21:24,000
erica, I've already said what I'm going to say, and

3221
03:21:24,000 --> 03:21:31,431
I'm counting on your common sense and
good sense to not go off the deep end about

3222
03:21:31,431 --> 03:21:34,000
everything from homelessness

3223
03:21:35,000 --> 03:21:39,000
in newport beach or in laguna beach to whatever.

3224
03:21:39,000 --> 03:21:42,000
I mean, we could go on and on.

3225
03:21:43,000 --> 03:21:48,000
and maybe that's filibuster is what we're talking about here.

3226
03:21:49,000 --> 03:21:54,443
but I hate to do that to the audience who
is still here, although I do know a number

3227
03:21:54,443 --> 03:21:56,000
of them are consultants.

3228
03:21:57,000 --> 03:22:00,000
so they're here for reasons of support.

3229
03:22:00,000 --> 03:22:02,000
but anyway.

3230
03:22:03,000 --> 03:22:05,000
it's a general request, okay?

3231
03:22:07,000 --> 03:22:08,000
you may continue your questions.

3232
03:22:09,000 --> 03:22:09,000
all right.

3233
03:22:10,000 --> 03:22:12,000
I yield my comment, my questions.

3234
03:22:12,000 --> 03:22:16,000
okay.

3235
03:22:17,000 --> 03:22:18,000
hi.

3236
03:22:18,000 --> 03:22:18,000
mr.

3237
03:22:21,000 --> 03:22:26,421
mathis, to ask the question I'd
written down, it must be telepathy.

3238
03:22:26,421 --> 03:22:32,000
as I understand, there are two
urgencies: hotel one and the affordable,

3239
03:22:32,000 --> 03:22:32,000
is that correct?

3240
03:22:34,000 --> 03:22:36,000
and the whole foods.

3241
03:22:36,000 --> 03:22:40,000
we have a timeline for delivery of that building for whole foods.

3242
03:22:41,000 --> 03:22:41,000
okay.

3243
03:22:41,000 --> 03:22:45,263
I understand now, from the other gentleman
speaking, that the affordable, the key

3244
03:22:45,263 --> 03:22:47,000
dates are september
and february.

3245
03:22:47,000 --> 03:22:50,000
what are whole foods' drop-dead or key dates?

3246
03:22:50,000 --> 03:22:54,000
we just have to deliver space in mid-2028 to them.

3247
03:22:55,000 --> 03:22:59,368
we have to deliver the building shell in
the condition we've agreed to in the lease

3248
03:22:59,368 --> 03:23:00,000
in mid-2028.

3249
03:23:01,000 --> 03:23:02,000
by what time again, mike?

3250
03:23:03,000 --> 03:23:03,000
mid-2028.

3251
03:23:03,000 --> 03:23:06,000
there's a date in the lease.

3252
03:23:06,000 --> 03:23:09,000
okay, so that's not quite as tight as the other.

3253
03:23:09,000 --> 03:23:10,000
but that's after building.

3254
03:23:10,000 --> 03:23:11,000
we have to build the building.

3255
03:23:12,000 --> 03:23:12,000
okay, I understand.

3256
03:23:12,000 --> 03:23:15,000
so there's a pretty tight timeline.

3257
03:23:15,000 --> 03:23:16,000
we're already right up against that.

3258
03:23:17,000 --> 03:23:18,000
okay.

3259
03:23:19,000 --> 03:23:21,000
what are the drop-dead dates, the important dates for hotel one?

3260
03:23:22,000 --> 03:23:23,000
yesterday.

3261
03:23:24,000 --> 03:23:24,000
yesterday.

3262
03:23:25,000 --> 03:23:34,317
no, the reality is, I'd say they need to,
because it really comes down to the risk

3263
03:23:34,317 --> 03:23:35,000
level.

3264
03:23:37,000 --> 03:23:43,762
they've been willing to go at risk up to
this point, knowing that this meeting was

3265
03:23:43,762 --> 03:23:45,000
going to occur.

3266
03:23:48,000 --> 03:23:54,000
by them going at risk, they're on track,
even with the conversations we've had about

3267
03:23:54,000 --> 03:23:55,000
12.4 and octa,

3268
03:23:56,000 --> 03:24:00,000
they're on track to be able to begin their work in january.

3269
03:24:01,000 --> 03:24:02,000
so they need to begin in january, so it...

3270
03:24:04,000 --> 03:24:08,000
it could, they have, like any construction
schedule, there's a little bit of

3271
03:24:08,000 --> 03:24:09,000
contingency, right?

3272
03:24:09,000 --> 03:24:13,000
but they want to be in the ground in january.

3273
03:24:13,000 --> 03:24:16,000
okay, so let me rephrase that and see if I'm correct.

3274
03:24:16,000 --> 03:24:18,000
so they can start shoveling in january?

3275
03:24:20,000 --> 03:24:20,000
ideally, yes.

3276
03:24:21,000 --> 03:24:24,000
and that, obviously, there's grading permits and then there's building permits.

3277
03:24:24,000 --> 03:24:27,000
so there's phasing to that construction schedule.

3278
03:24:27,000 --> 03:24:29,000
that's a little bit of time, then.

3279
03:24:29,000 --> 03:24:29,000
okay.

3280
03:24:30,000 --> 03:24:31,000
but there's no time.

3281
03:24:31,000 --> 03:24:33,000
no, there's really not.

3282
03:24:33,000 --> 03:24:37,255
because there's also the—they still have
to secure the franchise agreement, like we

3283
03:24:37,255 --> 03:24:39,000
talked about,
with the hotel flag.

3284
03:24:40,000 --> 03:24:41,000
what's that setback?

3285
03:24:42,000 --> 03:24:43,000
it's not set back.

3286
03:24:43,000 --> 03:24:45,000
right now, we're on schedule for it.

3287
03:24:45,000 --> 03:24:48,000
but if it gets delayed, if this gets delayed,

3288
03:24:48,000 --> 03:24:52,665
then that—I don't know when the next real
estate committee meeting is for that hotel

3289
03:24:52,665 --> 03:24:53,000
brand.

3290
03:24:53,000 --> 03:24:56,000
but right now, the meeting is lined up.

3291
03:24:56,000 --> 03:24:57,000
you realize it's just the first reading tonight.

3292
03:24:57,000 --> 03:24:58,000
it can't be passed tonight.

3293
03:24:59,000 --> 03:25:00,000
sure it could.

3294
03:25:01,000 --> 03:25:04,000
so there's still going to be a delay to the second reading, at least?

3295
03:25:04,000 --> 03:25:05,000
well, yeah, of course the second reading.

3296
03:25:05,000 --> 03:25:06,000
okay.

3297
03:25:06,000 --> 03:25:12,384
and they've taken the second reading and
the appeal periods, those things, all into

3298
03:25:12,384 --> 03:25:13,000
account.

3299
03:25:14,000 --> 03:25:16,000
I think I know the answer, but I want to clarify and make sure.

3300
03:25:16,000 --> 03:25:22,000
so right now, hotel two partially sits on where nordstrom is right now, right?

3301
03:25:23,000 --> 03:25:27,000
yeah, it's like, yeah, it's directly adjacent to it.

3302
03:25:29,000 --> 03:25:34,311
they don't want to be built unless the
magdalena is built out, and it all kind of has

3303
03:25:34,311 --> 03:25:36,000
to happen at the same time.

3304
03:25:36,000 --> 03:25:42,460
now, they could, if they elected to, if
they get into the mechanics of building that

3305
03:25:42,460 --> 03:25:46,000
building and how it
incorporates into the site

3306
03:25:46,000 --> 03:25:50,822
plan, the phasing of when they would complete
hotel one, because they want to use the

3307
03:25:50,822 --> 03:25:54,000
same construction crew,
move straight over to hotel two.

3308
03:25:55,000 --> 03:25:59,000
if it syncs up and they're willing to go at risk on any component of their project,

3309
03:26:00,000 --> 03:26:05,000
concurrent with or in advance of the nordstrom rack moving, they could do that.

3310
03:26:06,000 --> 03:26:09,000
it's just that's not what they're anticipating right now.

3311
03:26:09,000 --> 03:26:09,000
okay.

3312
03:26:10,000 --> 03:26:12,000
so there is maybe a little potential to...

3313
03:26:12,000 --> 03:26:13,000
hopefully.

3314
03:26:15,000 --> 03:26:15,000
I don't—no, not by 2028.

3315
03:26:15,000 --> 03:26:16,000
okay.

3316
03:26:16,000 --> 03:26:18,000
yeah, because the—that's the key.

3317
03:26:18,000 --> 03:26:19,000
okay.

3318
03:26:19,000 --> 03:26:22,000
because the relocation of the nordstrom rack can't happen.

3319
03:26:22,000 --> 03:26:26,000
it's a turnkey build, meaning they'll close the existing location

3320
03:26:28,000 --> 03:26:34,938
one night, and they'll open in a fully
operating store the next day, and then they'll

3321
03:26:34,938 --> 03:26:36,000
decommission.

3322
03:26:36,000 --> 03:26:40,126
I thought they used to literally take the
clothes off the racks in one store and move

3323
03:26:40,126 --> 03:26:41,000
them to the other.

3324
03:26:42,000 --> 03:26:42,000
now they don't.

3325
03:26:43,000 --> 03:26:48,100
they fully stock the new store, and then
they move all the inventory in the old store

3326
03:26:48,100 --> 03:26:49,000
someplace else.

3327
03:26:49,000 --> 03:26:50,000
I know.

3328
03:26:50,000 --> 03:26:53,000
that's what I thought, but I learned something new as well.

3329
03:26:53,000 --> 03:26:53,000
thank you.

3330
03:26:54,000 --> 03:26:54,000
of course.

3331
03:26:57,000 --> 03:26:59,000
whoa.

3332
03:27:00,000 --> 03:27:01,000
actually, those were great.

3333
03:27:02,000 --> 03:27:03,000
they were great questions.

3334
03:27:03,000 --> 03:27:05,000
I strayed a little bit here and there.

3335
03:27:06,000 --> 03:27:07,000
in my opinion, but...

3336
03:27:07,000 --> 03:27:08,000
uh...

3337
03:27:08,000 --> 03:27:14,000
we needed to do that, and so I appreciate your time to get up here and do what

3338
03:27:14,000 --> 03:27:19,379
both steve and staff have done in answering
questions and clarifying things as much

3339
03:27:19,379 --> 03:27:21,000
as you can. So with that,

3340
03:27:21,000 --> 03:27:22,000
we're going to bring

3341
03:27:23,000 --> 03:27:24,000
of the

3342
03:27:25,000 --> 03:27:30,000
planning agency of the joint session of the council and planning agency together

3343
03:27:30,000 --> 03:27:32,000
for deliberation, and

3344
03:27:33,000 --> 03:27:37,899
I don't know whether we want to start with
a motion or we'll want to just open it up

3345
03:27:37,899 --> 03:27:40,000
for whatever the
will of the council

3346
03:27:40,000 --> 03:27:40,000
is.

3347
03:27:42,000 --> 03:27:48,000
but in any case, we will definitely go around the horn more than a number of times.

3348
03:27:48,000 --> 03:27:49,000
I like things to be thorough.

3349
03:27:50,000 --> 03:27:57,000
and then hopefully we can take stock of this and move one way or the other.

3350
03:27:57,000 --> 03:28:01,000
so with that, anyone want to start?

3351
03:28:02,000 --> 03:28:04,000
mayor pro tem, you haven't said much.

3352
03:28:05,000 --> 03:28:06,000
yeah, you know, thank you, mr.

3353
03:28:06,000 --> 03:28:07,000
mayor.

3354
03:28:08,000 --> 03:28:15,274
I'll also go ahead and start with a motion
to approve the recommendation as proposed

3355
03:28:15,274 --> 03:28:19,000
by staff to move this
project forward to be

3356
03:28:19,000 --> 03:28:21,000
coming back for a second reading.

3357
03:28:22,000 --> 03:28:23,000
do we have a second on that motion?

3358
03:28:23,000 --> 03:28:24,000
I'll second that.

3359
03:28:24,000 --> 03:28:26,000
okay, we have a second.

3360
03:28:26,000 --> 03:28:37,022
now we'll open it up to deliberations, and
we'll start with dave. Okay, like I—hold

3361
03:28:37,022 --> 03:28:43,000
up. Before, I got this
huge document, and I'd

3362
03:28:43,000 --> 03:28:47,845
like to ask anybody on the council: read it
through? Is there anybody on the council

3363
03:28:47,845 --> 03:28:49,000
who read this thing?

3364
03:28:50,000 --> 03:28:51,000
I've read a lot of it.

3365
03:28:51,000 --> 03:28:53,000
yeah, I don't know what you're holding up.

3366
03:28:53,000 --> 03:28:56,000
well, this is the thing that the staff produced.

3367
03:28:56,000 --> 03:28:59,000
it's got the da in the middle, and it's got all the other pertinent parts.

3368
03:29:00,000 --> 03:29:00,000
yeah.

3369
03:29:01,000 --> 03:29:02,000
okay, I have not.

3370
03:29:02,000 --> 03:29:04,000
and only the ad hoc could have a chance.

3371
03:29:04,000 --> 03:29:07,000
I think it's premature to vote on this tonight.

3372
03:29:08,000 --> 03:29:09,000
maybe the discussion was great.

3373
03:29:10,000 --> 03:29:11,000
we need to go over this.

3374
03:29:11,000 --> 03:29:12,000
I need to go over this document.

3375
03:29:13,000 --> 03:29:17,691
I'm particularly concerned about the
economics, even done by the two different

3376
03:29:17,691 --> 03:29:21,000
organizations that I think
were hired by merlone geier.

3377
03:29:22,000 --> 03:29:27,724
their difference in the economic outcome
was almost a million dollars, around

3378
03:29:27,724 --> 03:29:28,000
$900,000.

3379
03:29:29,000 --> 03:29:31,738
that's a significant figure when you talk
about numbers in the range of two to three

3380
03:29:31,738 --> 03:29:32,000
million.

3381
03:29:33,000 --> 03:29:35,000
so I don't think we're ready.

3382
03:29:35,000 --> 03:29:40,000
I was trying to take into account the urgencies, and it's tight.

3383
03:29:42,000 --> 03:29:44,000
maybe we have to slip the affordable to february,

3384
03:29:44,000 --> 03:29:49,041
but the other one is doable, I guess.
But I think we need to wait till the next

3385
03:29:49,041 --> 03:29:50,000
meeting to have

3386
03:29:50,000 --> 03:29:51,680
a first reading for this.

3387
03:29:51,680 --> 03:29:57,058
it's just too different, and there's not
enough time to really see what's really

3388
03:29:57,058 --> 03:29:58,000
there. I don't

3389
03:29:58,000 --> 03:30:01,317
want—I don't want to vote on something
that I have no idea what's in there.

3390
03:30:01,317 --> 03:30:03,000
I've managed to maybe
get what took me

3391
03:30:03,000 --> 03:30:07,000
literally—I got this package yesterday. It literally took me two hours

3392
03:30:07,000 --> 03:30:09,000
to decipher because it didn't have page numbers.

3393
03:30:10,000 --> 03:30:13,000
it didn't have clean demarcations between the sections.

3394
03:30:14,000 --> 03:30:18,000
and as a result, I've only gone through maybe 25 pages or so, and there's hundreds.

3395
03:30:19,000 --> 03:30:20,000
it's just premature.

3396
03:30:20,000 --> 03:30:22,000
I'm voting for something.

3397
03:30:22,000 --> 03:30:23,000
I have no idea what it is.

3398
03:30:25,000 --> 03:30:26,000
okay.

3399
03:30:26,000 --> 03:30:30,000
I'm going to move on to josh.

3400
03:30:30,000 --> 03:30:30,000
you're next.

3401
03:30:30,000 --> 03:30:31,000
oh, thank you.

3402
03:30:32,000 --> 03:30:35,000
I just want to say thank you to not only the...

3403
03:30:38,000 --> 03:30:41,709
developer, but also our staff for all
the time and effort, as well as all of your

3404
03:30:41,709 --> 03:30:44,000
consultants that are
still here, our constituents,

3405
03:30:45,000 --> 03:30:47,000
everybody in the audience, thank you for your participation.

3406
03:30:47,000 --> 03:30:50,000
thank you for being here tonight and going through all this.

3407
03:30:50,000 --> 03:30:55,000
it's because of you that's why this project is where it is now.

3408
03:30:55,000 --> 03:30:59,000
so I know everybody has put a tremendous amount of time and effort into this.

3409
03:30:59,000 --> 03:31:01,000
it's truly appreciated.

3410
03:31:01,000 --> 03:31:04,000
it's nice to sit up here and see all of this come to fruition.

3411
03:31:04,000 --> 03:31:07,000
so I'm excited to get this going.

3412
03:31:08,000 --> 03:31:08,000
that's it.

3413
03:31:10,000 --> 03:31:10,000
okay.

3414
03:31:11,000 --> 03:31:13,000
you took off your light.

3415
03:31:13,000 --> 03:31:13,000
erica.

3416
03:31:14,000 --> 03:31:14,000
okay.

3417
03:31:15,000 --> 03:31:20,000
I have a lot of concerns, a lot of concerns for the future of the city.

3418
03:31:23,000 --> 03:31:26,000
I, too, and my stack is...

3419
03:31:29,000 --> 03:31:30,000
huge as well.

3420
03:31:30,000 --> 03:31:32,000
we have to go through all these papers.

3421
03:31:34,000 --> 03:31:40,416
and if you do it right, and you're making
a decision, you have to weigh everything

3422
03:31:40,416 --> 03:31:43,000
when you make
a decision up here.

3423
03:31:43,000 --> 03:31:50,280
because you're looking at the interests of
the 30-something thousand residents that

3424
03:31:50,280 --> 03:31:53,000
aren't present in this meeting.

3425
03:31:54,000 --> 03:31:58,468
and just because their voices aren't here
doesn't mean that they haven't spoken over

3426
03:31:58,468 --> 03:31:59,000
the years.

3427
03:32:00,000 --> 03:32:05,563
and just because this meeting happened
kind of quickly on a summer evening when

3428
03:32:05,563 --> 03:32:10,000
everyone is busy doesn't mean
that their weight doesn't matter,

3429
03:32:10,000 --> 03:32:11,000
because it matters.

3430
03:32:12,000 --> 03:32:13,000
I'm concerned.

3431
03:32:13,000 --> 03:32:18,000
there are so many concerns.

3432
03:32:18,000 --> 03:32:22,000
I'm not sure if oakbrook is here.

3433
03:32:22,000 --> 03:32:25,000
I think they left.

3434
03:32:26,000 --> 03:32:27,000
I'm not sure.

3435
03:32:27,000 --> 03:32:35,717
but if you just look at the square footage
of retail oakbrook provides and the number

3436
03:32:35,717 --> 03:32:39,000
of units that oakbrook provides,

3437
03:32:39,000 --> 03:32:45,290
so 270 units, and they have, it was 130,000,
I think, square feet of retail, that

3438
03:32:45,290 --> 03:32:47,000
makes financial sense.

3439
03:32:58,000 --> 03:33:07,000
we have substantially more units, about 1,500, and then 1,500 units with this project.

3440
03:33:08,000 --> 03:33:16,000
and we have a decrease in retail, and there's a hotel that's supposed to be built.

3441
03:33:16,000 --> 03:33:22,435
however, the hotel isn't guaranteed because
there's a chance eminent domain will

3442
03:33:22,435 --> 03:33:23,000
happen.

3443
03:33:24,000 --> 03:33:26,000
not just a chance, since 2023.

3444
03:33:28,000 --> 03:33:33,000
so that means that there could be a high probability the hotel won't be built.

3445
03:33:34,000 --> 03:33:37,000
so the finances put us in a really bad financial position.

3446
03:33:39,000 --> 03:33:44,600
just to even afford one officer, I think,
with the police, I think we're at $600,000

3447
03:33:44,600 --> 03:33:46,000
per year per officer.

3448
03:33:46,000 --> 03:33:47,000
maybe the amount shifts, but it's...

3449
03:33:56,000 --> 03:34:04,656
$300,000 per, or 24 hours? 24 hours. Okay,
so you have to think about how we're going

3450
03:34:04,656 --> 03:34:07,000
to be able to keep this

3451
03:34:07,000 --> 03:34:14,875
area safe, period. That's, I mean, just to
handle the safety alone, it doesn't cover

3452
03:34:14,875 --> 03:34:19,000
the costs to have to
handle the safety. I do

3453
03:34:19,000 --> 03:34:23,000
like homeownership opportunities. I think having homeownership

3454
03:34:24,000 --> 03:34:31,886
is excellent, but I also need to be reminded,
you also have to be reminded that years

3455
03:34:31,886 --> 03:34:33,000
ago, and one

3456
03:34:33,000 --> 03:34:37,000
thing that dave and I have is a lot of history on this council, years ago, and

3457
03:34:40,000 --> 03:34:45,125
approached us, saying we had two rhna units
and they were thinking about expanding

3458
03:34:45,125 --> 03:34:48,000
the rhna, and they
expanded the rhna to 1,950.

3459
03:34:52,000 --> 03:34:55,000
and merlone geier came and said, hey, we will take all of your rhna.

3460
03:34:55,000 --> 03:34:56,000
we want to take all of it.

3461
03:34:58,000 --> 03:35:00,000
and they wanted all of it.

3462
03:35:00,000 --> 03:35:06,486
so it seemed like, okay, well, we have a
win-win situation until the changes and

3463
03:35:06,486 --> 03:35:09,000
shifts on what was deemed okay.

3464
03:35:09,000 --> 03:35:11,000
so there was like this spectrum.

3465
03:35:11,000 --> 03:35:14,000
well, that spectrum didn't happen.

3466
03:35:14,000 --> 03:35:19,000
and we focused all of our time and energy to prepare for that meeting in 2021.

3467
03:35:22,000 --> 03:35:27,000
and after that meeting in 2021, we put everything aside with the staff.

3468
03:35:27,000 --> 03:35:29,000
we were very limited on staff.

3469
03:35:29,000 --> 03:35:36,296
so we put everything towards merlone geier
because the same excuses—I don't want to

3470
03:35:36,296 --> 03:35:37,000
be rude,

3471
03:35:37,000 --> 03:35:40,000
but the same reasons were popping up why we need to do it now.

3472
03:35:40,000 --> 03:35:41,000
you even had a lawsuit.

3473
03:35:41,000 --> 03:35:47,315
I think you guys were threatening a lawsuit
against us to pressure us into making a

3474
03:35:47,315 --> 03:35:48,000
decision.

3475
03:35:48,000 --> 03:35:53,843
to pressure us to make a decision, that
pressure on city staff, that pressure on our

3476
03:35:53,843 --> 03:35:56,000
city caused for rhna to be, our

3477
03:35:56,000 --> 03:35:59,000
rhna allocation to be held up.

3478
03:36:00,000 --> 03:36:02,000
our staff couldn't make it.

3479
03:36:02,000 --> 03:36:04,000
so then we're now in a builder's remedy.

3480
03:36:04,000 --> 03:36:06,000
we wound up with builder's remedy issues.

3481
03:36:07,000 --> 03:36:12,000
and then we had to increase the numbers of our units.

3482
03:36:14,000 --> 03:36:19,833
houses and units everywhere throughout the
city, an explosion of population, because

3483
03:36:19,833 --> 03:36:24,000
we focused on a project that
didn't come to fruition. And we

3484
03:36:24,000 --> 03:36:28,255
really should have been focused on rhna,
and in all fairness, your company came and

3485
03:36:28,255 --> 03:36:30,000
said we will take
all of the rhna.

3486
03:36:31,000 --> 03:36:38,000
it just, and the pressure that we're under right now is extremely high because

3487
03:36:39,000 --> 03:36:41,000
the consequences aren't on any of the staff.

3488
03:36:41,000 --> 03:36:44,000
the consequences aren't on the city attorney.

3489
03:36:44,000 --> 03:36:48,000
the consequences aren't on the negotiator.

3490
03:36:48,000 --> 03:36:49,000
the consequences aren't on the developer.

3491
03:36:50,000 --> 03:36:53,000
guess who deals with the consequences?

3492
03:36:53,000 --> 03:36:54,000
we do.

3493
03:36:55,000 --> 03:36:58,000
that's a decision that it comes back and hits us in our faces.

3494
03:36:59,000 --> 03:37:01,000
and the weight is on us as council members.

3495
03:37:02,000 --> 03:37:04,000
so we take that.

3496
03:37:04,000 --> 03:37:05,000
we have to take the hits.

3497
03:37:05,000 --> 03:37:07,000
we take the public hits.

3498
03:37:07,000 --> 03:37:09,000
we take all of the hits when we do it wrong.

3499
03:37:10,000 --> 03:37:14,114
and we're being pressured here to not read
through the documents, to push through a

3500
03:37:14,114 --> 03:37:16,000
decision that's
already been pre-made.

3501
03:37:17,000 --> 03:37:22,413
we can't go through these and try to go
through and sift through like we should,

3502
03:37:22,413 --> 03:37:26,000
because everything is going
to be determined tonight.

3503
03:37:26,000 --> 03:37:30,000
but I cannot support something that doesn't make sense.

3504
03:37:31,000 --> 03:37:36,605
because the uvsp says things like, in the
uvsp, it is supposed to be the area that

3505
03:37:36,605 --> 03:37:39,000
brings revenue
throughout the city.

3506
03:37:39,000 --> 03:37:41,000
our city suffers greatly.

3507
03:37:41,000 --> 03:37:43,000
we don't even pave our roads.

3508
03:37:44,000 --> 03:37:50,263
the decision was just made a couple of weeks
ago to double the amount of time to pave

3509
03:37:50,263 --> 03:37:51,000
our roads.

3510
03:37:51,000 --> 03:37:52,000
that's quality of life.

3511
03:37:53,000 --> 03:37:54,000
that's quality of life.

3512
03:37:54,000 --> 03:38:00,390
we can't pave our roads on time, but we
want to be saying yes to projects because of

3513
03:38:00,390 --> 03:38:01,000
a hotel,

3514
03:38:01,000 --> 03:38:04,000
because we want to help a developer out.

3515
03:38:04,000 --> 03:38:06,000
we want to say that, but we can't pave our roads.

3516
03:38:06,000 --> 03:38:07,000
we're not even thinking straight.

3517
03:38:07,000 --> 03:38:08,000
we can't pave our roads.

3518
03:38:09,000 --> 03:38:10,000
we keep decreasing police.

3519
03:38:10,000 --> 03:38:12,000
we don't have enough police in our city.

3520
03:38:12,000 --> 03:38:13,000
we don't.

3521
03:38:13,000 --> 03:38:15,000
we need support.

3522
03:38:15,000 --> 03:38:19,856
we also have a group that's talking about
trying to remove license plate readers that

3523
03:38:19,856 --> 03:38:21,000
help us in the city.

3524
03:38:22,000 --> 03:38:25,989
we have groups that are coming that are
trying to eliminate tools that we have that

3525
03:38:25,989 --> 03:38:27,000
help at a lower cost,

3526
03:38:27,000 --> 03:38:28,000
but we don't have enough police.

3527
03:38:29,000 --> 03:38:30,000
it's crazy.

3528
03:38:31,000 --> 03:38:34,272
anyway, these are problems you don't have
to deal with, but these are problems we

3529
03:38:34,272 --> 03:38:35,000
have to deal with.

3530
03:38:36,000 --> 03:38:41,760
reduction: we can't fix our community
center. We fight over trying to get carpet

3531
03:38:41,760 --> 03:38:45,000
completed at our
community center. We've been

3532
03:38:45,000 --> 03:38:47,977
planting plants with
residents throughout the city.

3533
03:38:47,977 --> 03:38:52,882
we've been trying to find cheaper ways to
do everything in the city because our mall

3534
03:38:52,882 --> 03:38:53,000
is

3535
03:38:53,000 --> 03:38:59,000
gone, and it wasn't just a mall that was dead.

3536
03:39:00,000 --> 03:39:01,000
it was a mall that was thriving.

3537
03:39:01,000 --> 03:39:02,000
why was it thriving?

3538
03:39:02,000 --> 03:39:10,645
because we had, and it says it in the uvsp,
we had residents from lake forest, from

3539
03:39:10,645 --> 03:39:12,000
laguna woods,

3540
03:39:12,000 --> 03:39:18,000
from laguna hills, shopping at this mall because it fit a need in the area.

3541
03:39:19,000 --> 03:39:19,000
it fit.

3542
03:39:19,000 --> 03:39:26,000
we were receiving $2 million in sales tax revenue annually, over $2 million.

3543
03:39:27,000 --> 03:39:34,027
and it's not necessarily; it was a
decision that was made, but the people that

3544
03:39:34,027 --> 03:39:37,000
suffered the most
were the staff.

3545
03:39:37,000 --> 03:39:40,000
and then the consequences are on the council.

3546
03:39:41,000 --> 03:39:45,338
so, I mean, with that, I'll allow my
colleagues to speak because I feel like I've

3547
03:39:45,338 --> 03:39:47,000
absorbed too much time already,

3548
03:39:47,000 --> 03:39:49,000
but those are some of my thoughts for now.

3549
03:39:50,000 --> 03:39:50,000
all right.

3550
03:39:51,000 --> 03:39:54,000
next on the list is jared mathis.

3551
03:39:55,000 --> 03:39:56,000
thank you, mayor.

3552
03:39:56,000 --> 03:39:58,000
let's just deal with reality.

3553
03:39:58,000 --> 03:39:59,000
this is a good project.

3554
03:40:00,000 --> 03:40:02,000
every expert here has said so.

3555
03:40:03,000 --> 03:40:05,000
staff has done diligent work.

3556
03:40:05,000 --> 03:40:09,000
it's been a collaborative process with the ad hoc committee and the developer.

3557
03:40:10,000 --> 03:40:14,000
I don't buy the idea that you don't have time to understand what this project is.

3558
03:40:15,000 --> 03:40:16,000
all this has happened on your watch.

3559
03:40:17,000 --> 03:40:19,000
you've been part of this 13-year vacancy.

3560
03:40:19,000 --> 03:40:21,000
eight years of that is under your watch.

3561
03:40:21,000 --> 03:40:22,000
you've been mayor twice, dave.

3562
03:40:22,000 --> 03:40:24,000
you were on the ad hoc committee before.

3563
03:40:24,000 --> 03:40:28,800
you meet with the city manager every week
for hours, and you didn't want to talk to

3564
03:40:28,800 --> 03:40:31,000
him about it over
that period of time.

3565
03:40:31,000 --> 03:40:34,000
we knew this date was coming a long time ago.

3566
03:40:35,000 --> 03:40:37,000
so save that part of it.

3567
03:40:37,000 --> 03:40:42,000
as far as what we have to do as council members, we signed up for this.

3568
03:40:42,000 --> 03:40:43,000
this is what we're here to do.

3569
03:40:44,000 --> 03:40:47,000
and so there's no complaining about that from this side of the dais.

3570
03:40:49,000 --> 03:40:51,000
let's do the job.

3571
03:40:52,000 --> 03:40:53,000
this is a good project.

3572
03:40:53,000 --> 03:40:54,000
it's been vetted.

3573
03:40:55,000 --> 03:40:59,207
and we've got the information that we need
to make a good decision and keep ourselves

3574
03:40:59,207 --> 03:41:00,000
on the timeline.

3575
03:41:02,000 --> 03:41:04,000
next would be dave wheeler.

3576
03:41:06,000 --> 03:41:06,000
mr.

3577
03:41:06,000 --> 03:41:09,000
mathis, what you just said, I'm taking offense to.

3578
03:41:10,000 --> 03:41:13,000
you guys took over the committee.

3579
03:41:14,000 --> 03:41:17,000
you and caskey took over the committee.

3580
03:41:17,000 --> 03:41:19,000
the rest of us have been locked out.

3581
03:41:19,000 --> 03:41:20,000
we had no information.

3582
03:41:21,000 --> 03:41:22,000
you brought new information.

3583
03:41:22,000 --> 03:41:23,000
it was six months.

3584
03:41:23,000 --> 03:41:26,000
it was left out of our monthly evaluation.

3585
03:41:26,000 --> 03:41:27,000
we didn't know what was going on.

3586
03:41:28,000 --> 03:41:31,000
I just got the information package yesterday.

3587
03:41:32,000 --> 03:41:35,894
and to say that I've had plenty of time
to do it when I had no idea what you were

3588
03:41:35,894 --> 03:41:37,000
doing is totally absurd

3589
03:41:37,000 --> 03:41:37,000
and not true.

3590
03:41:39,000 --> 03:41:43,117
and to say that all of a sudden, now we've
been on this for 13 years, and we come up

3591
03:41:43,117 --> 03:41:44,000
here now and we've

3592
03:41:44,000 --> 03:41:48,581
got to make a decision on this
multi-multi-million-dollar project in one day without

3593
03:41:48,581 --> 03:41:50,000
any evaluation, is absurd.

3594
03:41:50,000 --> 03:41:53,000
and anybody who votes for this is not taking the city into account.

3595
03:41:53,000 --> 03:41:54,000
it's absolutely ridiculous.

3596
03:41:55,000 --> 03:41:57,000
and I resent you saying things like that because they're not true.

3597
03:42:05,000 --> 03:42:08,000
I'm actually going to speak up on this one.

3598
03:42:08,000 --> 03:42:14,314
it was before your light went
on, so you may have last lapsed.

3599
03:42:14,314 --> 03:42:19,000
I've worked on this for
about three years, and

3600
03:42:20,000 --> 03:42:25,587
this ad hoc committee was nominated
and elected to the position of the ad hoc

3601
03:42:25,587 --> 03:42:29,000
committee a year and a
half ago by the council.

3602
03:42:30,000 --> 03:42:32,000
no one took over automatically.

3603
03:42:32,000 --> 03:42:39,942
it was elected by the council, and we've
done, I think, a really hard task, and we've

3604
03:42:39,942 --> 03:42:42,000
put a lot into it, and

3605
03:42:42,000 --> 03:42:44,000
there was a lot of experience that we brought to the table.

3606
03:42:46,000 --> 03:42:49,000
I brought more than 40 years of design and construction experience.

3607
03:42:50,000 --> 03:42:58,000
worked with developers and also on projects of this size and magnitude.

3608
03:42:59,000 --> 03:43:03,000
my colleague on the ad hoc committee, mr. Mathis, is a

3609
03:43:04,000 --> 03:43:04,000
uh...

3610
03:43:05,000 --> 03:43:07,000
landlord developer,

3611
03:43:07,000 --> 03:43:08,000
and he had

3612
03:43:08,000 --> 03:43:14,329
a lot of experience over the years in
basically leasing spaces, running businesses,

3613
03:43:14,329 --> 03:43:17,000
all the rest of
that kind of stuff,

3614
03:43:18,000 --> 03:43:20,000
that I have a little bit in, but not like him.

3615
03:43:21,000 --> 03:43:24,000
in fact, I doubt very many people in the room do.

3616
03:43:25,000 --> 03:43:30,030
so you actually had two pretty experienced
persons on this ad hoc committee, and we

3617
03:43:30,030 --> 03:43:33,000
worked very hard, and
the staff worked very hard.

3618
03:43:34,000 --> 03:43:39,817
and I will say, I mean, when somebody
brings in a stack that's more than a ream,

3619
03:43:39,817 --> 03:43:42,000
let's say it's even two reams,

3620
03:43:43,000 --> 03:43:46,000
a thousand pages of hard-copy stuff,

3621
03:43:46,000 --> 03:43:49,000
holds it up and says, "I just got this."

3622
03:43:51,000 --> 03:43:57,370
I can't tell you how many times I've gotten
an agenda, which we receive, which is

3623
03:43:57,370 --> 03:43:58,000
digital,

3624
03:43:58,000 --> 03:44:04,000
that is 1,900 pages three days before the meeting.

3625
03:44:05,000 --> 03:44:06,000
okay?

3626
03:44:06,000 --> 03:44:08,000
it happens a lot.

3627
03:44:08,000 --> 03:44:12,000
it doesn't happen, oh, once every three years.

3628
03:44:12,000 --> 03:44:13,000
it happens a lot.

3629
03:44:14,000 --> 03:44:15,000
now, I could say that

3630
03:44:16,000 --> 03:44:20,665
four or five hundred pages of that is
going to be our financial stuff that we're

3631
03:44:20,665 --> 03:44:23,000
supposed to be going
through diligently,

3632
03:44:24,000 --> 03:44:27,000
and we do, to an extreme.

3633
03:44:27,000 --> 03:44:32,880
I have a tendency to drill down on places:
where are our investments, where were we

3634
03:44:32,880 --> 03:44:36,000
last month, what's
really changed, you know,

3635
03:44:36,000 --> 03:44:37,000
those kinds of things.

3636
03:44:37,000 --> 03:44:45,191
so I will admit that out of some of these
enormous digital agenda packets that we

3637
03:44:45,191 --> 03:44:46,000
receive,

3638
03:44:46,000 --> 03:44:51,000
maybe three or four hundred pages of it is financial or just other kinds of stuff.

3639
03:44:52,000 --> 03:44:58,522
but I will also say that in the four, five
hundred, six hundred pages that is over

3640
03:44:58,522 --> 03:44:59,000
there,

3641
03:45:00,000 --> 03:45:03,000
an awful lot of it is just stuff.

3642
03:45:04,000 --> 03:45:08,000
legal stuff, definitions of words, all kinds of stuff.

3643
03:45:09,000 --> 03:45:15,000
the actual development agreement where you really know what's happening,

3644
03:45:16,000 --> 03:45:21,000
aside from all the appendices and all the rest of that, is 57 pages.

3645
03:45:22,000 --> 03:45:29,000
the development agreement, in its nuts and bolts, is 57 pages and very easy to read.

3646
03:45:29,000 --> 03:45:31,000
okay?

3647
03:45:31,000 --> 03:45:38,102
the 300 sheets of drawings that are, you
know, available to the public and all the

3648
03:45:38,102 --> 03:45:42,000
rest of that, they're
concept drawings, okay?

3649
03:45:42,000 --> 03:45:49,000
they are very accurate in terms of layouts and what you should expect.

3650
03:45:49,000 --> 03:45:55,049
but when you get into things that were
shown to us tonight that were renderings of

3651
03:45:55,049 --> 03:45:58,000
what the buildings
are all going to look

3652
03:45:58,000 --> 03:46:03,000
like and all the rest of that, that's conceptual.

3653
03:46:04,000 --> 03:46:09,459
this developer will sell the property,
because they don't do residential, to a

3654
03:46:09,459 --> 03:46:11,000
residential developer.

3655
03:46:12,000 --> 03:46:19,181
those developers now know from those
concept drawings what we're expecting, but

3656
03:46:19,181 --> 03:46:23,000
they're not going to
hand in exactly that.

3657
03:46:23,000 --> 03:46:27,000
they may want changes, and we will review them, not as a city council,

3658
03:46:28,000 --> 03:46:32,000
but administratively, we will make sure that the concept of those

3659
03:46:33,000 --> 03:46:39,000
what is being put in front of us as a council and what was being put in front of you

3660
03:46:40,000 --> 03:46:46,842
tonight is followed as a concept
and what we're expecting to get.

3661
03:46:46,842 --> 03:46:52,000
I'm not going to talk
about the economics because

3662
03:46:52,000 --> 03:46:55,000
it was, in my mind, pretty twisted

3663
03:46:56,000 --> 03:47:01,000
in terms of how it was portrayed by some of the people on the council.

3664
03:47:02,000 --> 03:47:04,000
but that's my rendition of this.

3665
03:47:05,000 --> 03:47:13,051
the people of this city have been waiting,
and not so patiently lately, for something

3666
03:47:13,051 --> 03:47:14,000
to happen.

3667
03:47:16,000 --> 03:47:20,000
so I came here wanting to listen to all of this,

3668
03:47:23,000 --> 03:47:27,000
and be what they call semi-judicial.

3669
03:47:28,000 --> 03:47:34,000
but I have to say one of the big things that moves me is everywhere I go, I

3670
03:47:36,000 --> 03:47:41,000
feel like this is a song I'm going to break into: people want to know what's going on.

3671
03:47:42,000 --> 03:47:43,000
why don't we have this?

3672
03:47:44,000 --> 03:47:48,000
and all we do is go round and round and round

3673
03:47:48,000 --> 03:47:52,000
and talk about how, what if, you know, what if the sky falls?

3674
03:47:53,000 --> 03:47:58,413
what if homeless people happen to roll
through the, you know, I mean, I'm on the

3675
03:47:58,413 --> 03:48:02,000
southern california
association of governments, scag.

3676
03:48:03,000 --> 03:48:13,000
that location for affordable housing would be their poster child.

3677
03:48:14,000 --> 03:48:17,000
they're happy if it's within a half a mile.

3678
03:48:18,000 --> 03:48:18,000
okay?

3679
03:48:19,000 --> 03:48:24,112
but if we could say, oh, it's across the
street that you can catch a bus to anywhere

3680
03:48:24,112 --> 03:48:26,000
in the county and there beyond,

3681
03:48:27,000 --> 03:48:30,000
I mean, I don't know what you do beyond that.

3682
03:48:31,000 --> 03:48:35,000
I guess you talk about how it's just not going to be secure.

3683
03:48:35,000 --> 03:48:41,746
it can't be secure because there are people
who were waiting in line for a place in

3684
03:48:41,746 --> 03:48:45,000
laguna beach, some
homeless place there.

3685
03:48:45,000 --> 03:48:47,000
and so we can't trust that they won't

3686
03:48:48,000 --> 03:48:49,000
mug somebody in that building.

3687
03:48:51,000 --> 03:48:55,000
I mean, my patience has been really tried.

3688
03:48:55,000 --> 03:49:01,000
so I have to tell you that I'm going to be voting aye if this moves to a vote.

3689
03:49:02,000 --> 03:49:05,000
so let's see, was there somebody else?

3690
03:49:05,000 --> 03:49:07,000
the next person up was josh sweeney.

3691
03:49:08,000 --> 03:49:08,000
thank you, mr.

3692
03:49:08,000 --> 03:49:09,000
mayor.

3693
03:49:09,000 --> 03:49:10,000
I appreciate that.

3694
03:49:11,000 --> 03:49:15,581
and I just need to really respond to
a couple comments because I take my

3695
03:49:15,581 --> 03:49:18,000
responsibility very
seriously up here,

3696
03:49:19,000 --> 03:49:23,000
not only as a planning agency member, but as a city council member.

3697
03:49:24,000 --> 03:49:26,000
and I want to be very clear.

3698
03:49:26,000 --> 03:49:30,000
my decision tonight was definitely not predetermined.

3699
03:49:31,000 --> 03:49:35,521
I spent a considerable amount of time going
over the materials, just like mayor caskey

3700
03:49:35,521 --> 03:49:36,000
had said.

3701
03:49:36,000 --> 03:49:37,000
we all received the materials.

3702
03:49:37,000 --> 03:49:39,000
we all have ample time to review them.

3703
03:49:40,000 --> 03:49:41,000
and it is what it is.

3704
03:49:41,000 --> 03:49:44,000
you put in as much time as you want on that.

3705
03:49:44,000 --> 03:49:48,698
but not only do we have time to review the
materials, we also had an opportunity to

3706
03:49:48,698 --> 03:49:50,000
speak to the applicant.

3707
03:49:50,000 --> 03:49:54,000
we had time to listen to our constituents.

3708
03:49:55,000 --> 03:49:57,000
so there's a lot that went into this.

3709
03:50:00,000 --> 03:50:04,709
I think reasonable people can look
at the same project and reach different

3710
03:50:04,709 --> 03:50:07,000
conclusions, and
I can respect that.

3711
03:50:08,000 --> 03:50:13,333
but I do not think it is fair or appropriate
to suggest that those of us who may

3712
03:50:13,333 --> 03:50:16,000
reach a different
conclusion had already

3713
03:50:16,000 --> 03:50:17,000
made up our minds.

3714
03:50:19,000 --> 03:50:27,000
so, also quickly on public safety, I think I want the record to be accurate because

3715
03:50:27,000 --> 03:50:34,202
the fiscal analysis that was done by eps
shows approximately $1.36 million as a model

3716
03:50:34,202 --> 03:50:37,000
public safety
expense allocation.

3717
03:50:38,000 --> 03:50:43,945
and that was based on a per-person calculation
that was done for how many people are

3718
03:50:43,945 --> 03:50:46,000
in our community and what our

3719
03:50:46,000 --> 03:50:47,000
current budget is.

3720
03:50:48,000 --> 03:50:50,000
and so that's how that was come up with.

3721
03:50:51,000 --> 03:50:53,000
the city's existing public safety budget is

3722
03:50:57,000 --> 03:50:58,022
using that methodology.

3723
03:50:58,022 --> 03:51:01,799
it's not finding that the city needs to hire
a specific number of sheriffs, and I had

3724
03:51:01,799 --> 03:51:03,000
asked the question earlier,

3725
03:51:03,000 --> 03:51:05,000
and the captain had responded on that.

3726
03:51:06,000 --> 03:51:10,000
and definitely, additional deputies do not cost us $600,000.

3727
03:51:10,000 --> 03:51:14,605
but anyways, we can disagree on the project,
but I think at the end of the day, we

3728
03:51:14,605 --> 03:51:15,000
owe our

3729
03:51:15,000 --> 03:51:19,728
residents an accurate discussion of
the facts and respect for each member's

3730
03:51:19,728 --> 03:51:22,000
independent
decision-making process.

3731
03:51:23,000 --> 03:51:23,000
so thank you.

3732
03:51:26,000 --> 03:51:43,000
we'll now move back to erica. Yes, well, I think that it's obvious that there

3733
03:51:43,000 --> 03:51:50,131
is a split. It is obvious. So thank you for
giving me the time to be able to express

3734
03:51:50,131 --> 03:51:52,000
my concerns because my

3735
03:51:52,000 --> 03:51:58,000
concerns are extreme.

3736
03:51:58,000 --> 03:52:03,000
I mean, if you look at the asks from ms.

3737
03:52:03,000 --> 03:52:10,706
lowe's powerpoint, she kind of, it was sort
of spoken briefly, but the asks are that

3738
03:52:10,706 --> 03:52:13,000
we're changing the usage.

3739
03:52:13,000 --> 03:52:22,000
so the uvsp says if there are going to be units in the

3740
03:52:24,000 --> 03:52:32,869
uvsp, new units, residential units, that
they were mixed use, and also states to have

3741
03:52:32,869 --> 03:52:36,000
the mixed use on top of shops.

3742
03:52:36,000 --> 03:52:43,500
well, I don't see that, so it's requesting
a variance from us to say, okay, we're not

3743
03:52:43,500 --> 03:52:45,000
going to provide,

3744
03:52:45,000 --> 03:52:49,903
we're not going to follow our laws, we're
going to sign a doc, and we're going to say

3745
03:52:49,903 --> 03:52:51,000
that we're going to

3746
03:52:52,000 --> 03:52:56,000
create a lot of exceptions for merlone geier.

3747
03:52:57,000 --> 03:53:03,941
this is our one opportunity to be able to
have something and plan for something that

3748
03:53:03,941 --> 03:53:07,000
creates economic
vitality in the city

3749
03:53:07,000 --> 03:53:08,000
for years.

3750
03:53:09,000 --> 03:53:10,000
this is our one shot.

3751
03:53:10,000 --> 03:53:18,371
all of the other developments that we
had to zone for rhna purposes, we couldn't

3752
03:53:18,371 --> 03:53:19,000
obtain

3753
03:53:19,000 --> 03:53:21,000
this sort of economic vitality.

3754
03:53:21,000 --> 03:53:26,950
this was our one shot to do a great job, to
be able to increase retail, to bring some

3755
03:53:26,950 --> 03:53:28,000
sort of, if you

3756
03:53:28,000 --> 03:53:31,000
look right down the street, there's a porsche dealership.

3757
03:53:32,000 --> 03:53:33,000
is it a porsche?

3758
03:53:33,000 --> 03:53:34,000
I think it's a porsche dealership.

3759
03:53:35,000 --> 03:53:37,000
what kind of revenue does that bring into irvine?

3760
03:53:38,000 --> 03:53:43,000
look at the dealerships that are in the other cities right across the street.

3761
03:53:44,000 --> 03:53:46,000
they have copious amounts of retail.

3762
03:53:46,000 --> 03:53:51,000
this area is a retail boomer, and it's meant to be that way.

3763
03:53:51,000 --> 03:53:56,000
the uvsp states it, that it is the economic generator in the city.

3764
03:53:57,000 --> 03:54:01,000
so we're decreasing retail and we're giving all these exceptions,

3765
03:54:01,000 --> 03:54:06,695
but we're getting nothing for it. I mean,
not that much, and the quimby fees, which

3766
03:54:06,695 --> 03:54:08,000
are essentially our

3767
03:54:08,000 --> 03:54:12,923
rules that state you have to give this much
per unit. That's what we're getting for

3768
03:54:12,923 --> 03:54:15,000
it, is what we're
supposed to have.

3769
03:54:16,000 --> 03:54:21,203
I mean, it's just, it doesn't create the
economic vitality, stability that we need in

3770
03:54:21,203 --> 03:54:22,000
the city, and

3771
03:54:22,000 --> 03:54:26,000
this was our one chance to do it, and we failed.

3772
03:54:27,000 --> 03:54:28,000
I mean, this body failed.

3773
03:54:29,000 --> 03:54:33,000
and, you know, as I said, it's our decisions.

3774
03:54:33,000 --> 03:54:39,027
if you read what we're actually signing,
I mean, it's actually pretty scary what

3775
03:54:39,027 --> 03:54:44,000
we're signing, and I can't support
something like that, especially

3776
03:54:44,000 --> 03:54:48,000
because if you're ever asked in court, well, did you know the addendums?

3777
03:54:48,000 --> 03:54:51,306
like, you're going to be asked, if you're
ever in this situation, you're going to

3778
03:54:51,306 --> 03:54:52,000
have to be asked,

3779
03:54:52,000 --> 03:54:55,000
did you know that those addendums were there?

3780
03:54:56,000 --> 03:54:56,000
yes.

3781
03:54:56,000 --> 03:54:59,000
well, that was staff's recommendation.

3782
03:54:59,000 --> 03:55:01,000
that's not what somebody's going to care about.

3783
03:55:01,000 --> 03:55:06,000
what they're going to care about is your responsibility to it, your due diligence.

3784
03:55:06,000 --> 03:55:09,415
they're not going to say, well, that was
a recommendation given to me by staff, by

3785
03:55:09,415 --> 03:55:10,000
somebody else.

3786
03:55:11,000 --> 03:55:11,000
no one cares.

3787
03:55:12,000 --> 03:55:13,000
they're going to say, what did you do?

3788
03:55:13,000 --> 03:55:15,000
well, how did you do your homework on it?

3789
03:55:15,000 --> 03:55:18,000
that's why the homework is important for us.

3790
03:55:19,000 --> 03:55:22,000
because we are the responsible parties.

3791
03:55:22,000 --> 03:55:24,000
we are the responsible body.

3792
03:55:24,000 --> 03:55:30,000
and to minimize the amount of time that we've had to go through this is, I mean,

3793
03:55:30,000 --> 03:55:35,203
I know that we're going back and forth about
being insulted, but it's really, I guess

3794
03:55:35,203 --> 03:55:36,000
I've never...

3795
03:55:37,000 --> 03:55:37,000
I don't know.

3796
03:55:38,000 --> 03:55:42,826
we're in a different situation now where
people are frustrated about people doing

3797
03:55:42,826 --> 03:55:47,000
their homework or doing their due
diligence that we're supposed to do.

3798
03:55:47,000 --> 03:55:48,000
it's our fiduciary duties.

3799
03:55:49,000 --> 03:55:50,000
we have duties to protect the residents.

3800
03:55:51,000 --> 03:55:51,000
we have duties.

3801
03:55:51,000 --> 03:55:55,000
and we're trying to say, hey, we need some more time to negotiate further.

3802
03:55:55,000 --> 03:55:59,000
we need more time to create a stronger economic vitality.

3803
03:55:59,000 --> 03:56:05,495
we've been asking. I mentioned to you at
the last meeting I wanted to know what was

3804
03:56:05,495 --> 03:56:08,000
happening and how I felt that it

3805
03:56:08,000 --> 03:56:09,000
wasn't fair and wasn't right.

3806
03:56:11,000 --> 03:56:12,000
we're being thrown to the side with this.

3807
03:56:13,000 --> 03:56:18,000
so, I mean, and the consequences again are the decision that was made by the council.

3808
03:56:19,000 --> 03:56:22,000
so anyway, I yield my comments.

3809
03:56:25,000 --> 03:56:26,000
any other comments?

3810
03:56:30,000 --> 03:56:35,424
I have to make one last comment, and that
is I have to say that as a professional and

3811
03:56:35,424 --> 03:56:36,000
a person,

3812
03:56:36,000 --> 03:56:43,058
to be accused of not doing my due diligence
on something that I've worked so hard on

3813
03:56:43,058 --> 03:56:46,000
for a year and a
half, negotiating,

3814
03:56:46,000 --> 03:56:51,000
and it wasn't easy, I really resent that.

3815
03:56:52,000 --> 03:56:58,000
and I resent some of the other accusations about the project itself.

3816
03:56:58,000 --> 03:57:00,000
but I'm going to leave it at that for me.

3817
03:57:01,000 --> 03:57:07,000
and seeing no other lights, we have a motion and a second.

3818
03:57:08,000 --> 03:57:11,000
so I'm going to ask the city clerk to call a roll call.

3819
03:57:11,000 --> 03:57:12,000
this should be a roll call vote.

3820
03:57:14,000 --> 03:57:14,000
yes.

3821
03:57:15,000 --> 03:57:16,000
mayor caskey?

3822
03:57:17,000 --> 03:57:17,000
aye.

3823
03:57:18,000 --> 03:57:19,000
mayor pro tem mathis?

3824
03:57:20,000 --> 03:57:20,000
aye.

3825
03:57:20,000 --> 03:57:20,000
aye.

3826
03:57:21,000 --> 03:57:22,000
councilmember wheeler?

3827
03:57:23,000 --> 03:57:23,000
no.

3828
03:57:25,000 --> 03:57:26,000
councilmember sweeney?

3829
03:57:26,000 --> 03:57:26,000
aye.

3830
03:57:28,000 --> 03:57:29,000
councilmember pezold?

3831
03:57:30,000 --> 03:57:30,000
no.

3832
03:57:33,000 --> 03:57:35,000
that is three for yes and then two for no.

3833
03:57:35,000 --> 03:57:36,000
the motion would pass.

3834
03:57:37,000 --> 03:57:37,000
okay.

3835
03:57:40,000 --> 03:57:43,000
thank you all for being so patient out there.

3836
03:57:45,000 --> 03:57:47,000
you're not all consultants; you're citizens.

3837
03:57:48,000 --> 03:57:56,376
so what we're going to do is take a little
five- or ten-minute break to allow those

3838
03:57:56,376 --> 03:57:59,000
of you who want to depart.

3839
03:58:00,000 --> 03:58:05,547
it is now 9:54, and believe it or not, we
have a whole meeting in front of us, which

3840
03:58:05,547 --> 03:58:07,000
I would love to table,

3841
03:58:07,000 --> 03:58:09,000
but I don't know that we can do that.

3842
03:58:10,000 --> 03:58:13,000
so we'll give you first a chance to

3843
03:58:15,000 --> 03:58:17,000
not feel like you're sneaking out.

3844
03:58:20,000 --> 03:58:24,000
if you want to stay, then by all means.

3845
03:58:25,000 --> 03:58:25,000


3846
03:58:51,000 --> 03:58:52,000


3847
03:59:20,000 --> 03:59:21,000


3848
03:59:41,000 --> 03:59:41,000


3849
04:00:15,000 --> 04:00:16,000


3850
04:00:16,000 --> 04:00:19,000


3851
04:00:35,000 --> 04:00:37,000


3852
04:00:37,000 --> 04:00:39,000


3853
04:00:39,000 --> 04:00:41,000


3854
04:00:41,000 --> 04:00:41,000


3855
04:00:42,000 --> 04:00:43,000


3856
04:00:43,000 --> 04:00:43,000


3857
04:00:43,000 --> 04:00:44,000


3858
04:00:44,000 --> 04:00:46,000


3859
04:00:58,000 --> 04:00:59,000


3860
04:00:59,000 --> 04:01:01,000


3861
04:01:01,000 --> 04:01:02,000


3862
04:01:02,000 --> 04:01:03,000


3863
04:01:25,000 --> 04:01:28,000


3864
04:01:54,000 --> 04:01:55,000


3865
04:01:55,000 --> 04:01:55,000


3866
04:02:21,000 --> 04:02:22,000


3867
04:03:00,000 --> 04:03:01,000


3868
04:03:42,000 --> 04:03:43,000


3869
04:04:24,000 --> 04:04:25,000


3870
04:06:04,417 --> 04:06:04,976
all right.

3871
04:06:05,000 --> 04:06:06,004
I'm not going to use the gavel.

3872
04:06:06,030 --> 04:06:09,000
I'm just going to start the meeting up where we left off.

3873
04:06:09,000 --> 04:06:13,000
we're trying to let people leave who might want to leave, and

3874
04:06:13,000 --> 04:06:16,000
it looks like a number of people have taken us up on that.

3875
04:06:19,000 --> 04:06:24,090
so we have no presentations or proclamations,
so we're going to move straight to

3876
04:06:24,090 --> 04:06:26,000
holland gannon, if she's here.

3877
04:06:26,000 --> 04:06:27,000
yeah, she is.

3878
04:06:27,000 --> 04:06:29,000
with a schedule of future events.

3879
04:06:29,000 --> 04:06:30,000
holland.

3880
04:06:30,000 --> 04:06:33,000
mayor, can I ask one question?

3881
04:06:33,000 --> 04:06:35,000
can I get a printed agenda?

3882
04:06:35,000 --> 04:06:36,000
my apologies.

3883
04:06:36,000 --> 04:06:38,000
it's sort of lost in my stack.

3884
04:06:47,000 --> 04:06:48,000
I'm sorry, I didn't catch that.

3885
04:06:52,000 --> 04:06:53,000
oh, it's in the bridge.

3886
04:06:53,000 --> 04:06:54,000
okay.

3887
04:06:55,000 --> 04:06:55,000
thank you.

3888
04:06:56,000 --> 04:06:56,000
are you not going?

3889
04:06:57,000 --> 04:06:57,000
I'm ready.

3890
04:06:58,000 --> 04:06:59,000
go for it.

3891
04:06:59,000 --> 04:07:02,000
good evening, mayor caskey, members of the city council, and members of the public.

3892
04:07:03,000 --> 04:07:06,770
the city council and planning agency will
have its next meeting on tuesday, august

3893
04:07:06,770 --> 04:07:07,000
25th.

3894
04:07:07,000 --> 04:07:09,000
the meeting will begin at 6 p.m.

3895
04:07:09,000 --> 04:07:10,000
here in the council chambers.

3896
04:07:11,000 --> 04:07:15,234
the traffic commission will have their
regular meeting tomorrow, on wednesday, july

3897
04:07:15,234 --> 04:07:16,000
15th, at 6 p.m.

3898
04:07:16,000 --> 04:07:17,000
also here in the council chambers.

3899
04:07:18,000 --> 04:07:22,338
the parks and recreation commission will
have their regular meeting the following

3900
04:07:22,338 --> 04:07:24,000
month, on august 5th at 6 p.m.,

3901
04:07:24,000 --> 04:07:27,000
and that will also take place in the council chambers.

3902
04:07:28,000 --> 04:07:32,207
with the recess coming up, I have a lot of
community activities and events to discuss

3903
04:07:32,207 --> 04:07:33,000
for you tonight.

3904
04:07:34,000 --> 04:07:36,000
community services will have an excursion to l.a.'s

3905
04:07:36,000 --> 04:07:39,000
hollyhock house on friday, july 17th.

3906
04:07:39,000 --> 04:07:41,000
participants will depart from the community center at 11:30 a.m.

3907
04:07:43,000 --> 04:07:46,540
that same evening, we will have our first
concert in our summer concert series on the

3908
04:07:46,540 --> 04:07:48,000
town green of the
community center.

3909
04:07:49,000 --> 04:07:53,000
from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m., we will be listening to a community favorite, the reflex.

3910
04:07:53,000 --> 04:07:57,149
the kids' market will also be at this event,
which is a market entirely run by kids

3911
04:07:57,149 --> 04:07:59,000
selling their own
homemade creations.

3912
04:08:00,000 --> 04:08:04,000
on sunday, july 19th, we have a sold-out excursion to la jolla,

3913
04:08:04,000 --> 04:08:07,656
where participants will start by visiting
the historical society and end with a

3914
04:08:07,656 --> 04:08:09,000
community concert by the sea.

3915
04:08:10,000 --> 04:08:14,406
the global harmony symphony presents playbill
parade, a free community concert in the

3916
04:08:14,406 --> 04:08:17,000
heritage room of the
community center at 6:30 p.m.

3917
04:08:17,000 --> 04:08:18,000
on monday, july 20th.

3918
04:08:20,000 --> 04:08:24,292
on thursday, july 23rd, ocsd will be holding
national night out at the laguna hills

3919
04:08:24,292 --> 04:08:26,000
community center
from 5 to 8 p.m.

3920
04:08:27,000 --> 04:08:30,000
the next day, on july 24th, we have a teen excursion to knott's berry farm.

3921
04:08:31,000 --> 04:08:34,694
we also have our second movie in the park
that evening, where we will be watching the

3922
04:08:34,694 --> 04:08:36,000
movie trolls at san remo park.

3923
04:08:36,000 --> 04:08:39,000
the first 100 attendees will get a funnel cake on us.

3924
04:08:40,000 --> 04:08:43,736
the global harmony symphony will host their
free quarterly moment musicale concert at

3925
04:08:43,736 --> 04:08:44,000
1 p.m.

3926
04:08:44,000 --> 04:08:46,000
in the heritage room on tuesday, july 28th.

3927
04:08:47,000 --> 04:08:51,000
the next friday, we have our next summer concert on july 31st.

3928
04:08:52,000 --> 04:08:55,000
we will be listening to the history of pop on the town green from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m.

3929
04:08:57,000 --> 04:09:00,844
the community services department and
the laguna hills library will have their

3930
04:09:00,844 --> 04:09:04,000
monthly storytime adventures
on thursday, august 6th, at 10 a.m.

3931
04:09:04,000 --> 04:09:06,000
in heritage room a of the community center.

3932
04:09:07,000 --> 04:09:11,000
we have our last teen excursion of the summer on friday, august 7th, to raging waters.

3933
04:09:12,000 --> 04:09:16,090
that same evening, we will be at stockport
park watching madagascar for our third

3934
04:09:16,090 --> 04:09:17,000
movie in the park.

3935
04:09:17,000 --> 04:09:19,000
the event starts at 6:30 p.m.

3936
04:09:19,000 --> 04:09:21,000
and the first 100 attendees will get a free shaved ice on us.

3937
04:09:24,000 --> 04:09:28,000
we will be traveling to the hilbert museum in orange on saturday, august 8th.

3938
04:09:28,000 --> 04:09:34,802
then we have another sold-out excursion
to santa barbara on august 9th, where there

3939
04:09:34,802 --> 04:09:38,000
is an annual old
spanish days festival.

3940
04:09:39,000 --> 04:09:42,627
on monday, august 10th, we will have
an evening excursion to bolsa chica for a

3941
04:09:42,627 --> 04:09:43,000
bonfire.

3942
04:09:44,000 --> 04:09:48,394
the community services department and
the laguna hills library will have their

3943
04:09:48,394 --> 04:09:52,000
monthly let's make workshop
on wednesday, august 12th, at 4 p.m.

3944
04:09:52,000 --> 04:09:54,000
in the classroom of the community center.

3945
04:09:55,000 --> 04:09:59,622
on friday, august 14th, we have an excursion
to a friday-night event at the historic

3946
04:09:59,622 --> 04:10:01,000
gamble house in pasadena.

3947
04:10:01,000 --> 04:10:05,329
and on that day, we also have our last
summer concert, where we will be rocking out

3948
04:10:05,329 --> 04:10:07,000
to acme time machine on the town

3949
04:10:07,000 --> 04:10:08,000
green again from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m.

3950
04:10:10,000 --> 04:10:14,000
that saturday, we have our annual excursion to the lemon festival in chula vista.

3951
04:10:14,000 --> 04:10:19,000
and finally, we have our last movie in the park on friday, august 21st, at 6:30 p.m.

3952
04:10:19,000 --> 04:10:20,000
in clarington park.

3953
04:10:20,000 --> 04:10:25,000
the first hundred attendees will receive a meal from tk burger.

3954
04:10:25,000 --> 04:10:27,000
that concludes my report, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

3955
04:10:28,000 --> 04:10:29,000
thank you very much.

3956
04:10:30,000 --> 04:10:31,000
are there any questions for ms.

3957
04:10:32,000 --> 04:10:32,000
gannon?

3958
04:10:34,000 --> 04:10:35,000
okay.

3959
04:10:36,000 --> 04:10:39,000
I will say, even though it's probably only going to go into the record,

3960
04:10:40,000 --> 04:10:40,000
uh...

3961
04:10:40,000 --> 04:10:45,000
but if anyone's actually still listening, the hollyhock house in

3962
04:10:46,000 --> 04:10:49,000
los angeles, which was designed by frank lloyd wright, and it's one of the events,

3963
04:10:51,000 --> 04:10:54,000
the gamble house, which was towards the end of what you were

3964
04:10:55,000 --> 04:11:02,311
basically letting us know, are both
incredible, incredible places to visit, and I

3965
04:11:02,311 --> 04:11:08,000
recommend them highly to anyone,
not only in this room, but who

3966
04:11:08,000 --> 04:11:11,000
might be watching the video and/or the livestream.

3967
04:11:13,000 --> 04:11:18,790
the next thing on the agenda is the public
comments, non-agendized public comments,

3968
04:11:18,790 --> 04:11:19,000
and

3969
04:11:19,000 --> 04:11:25,833
this is a time to address the city council
on any matter not listed in this agenda

3970
04:11:25,833 --> 04:11:28,000
that is within the subject

3971
04:11:28,000 --> 04:11:33,000
matter jurisdiction of the city council.

3972
04:11:33,000 --> 04:11:38,000
public comments are limited to three minutes, as determined by the mayor.

3973
04:11:39,000 --> 04:11:43,405
if you're participating remotely,
and I'll look over to the city clerk to

3974
04:11:43,405 --> 04:11:46,000
double-check whether
we have anybody there,

3975
04:11:48,000 --> 04:11:54,889
then I'll let him tell you how to do that,
since this is the first time that we've

3976
04:11:54,889 --> 04:11:58,000
tried that system.
And with that, I'm

3977
04:11:58,000 --> 04:12:00,000
going to ask the city clerk.

3978
04:12:00,000 --> 04:12:01,000
do we have

3979
04:12:02,000 --> 04:12:10,423
any members of the audience who wish to make
a public comment? Yes, I have three. The

3980
04:12:10,423 --> 04:12:13,000
first is yi-ning. Welcome.

3981
04:12:14,000 --> 04:12:19,000
and she did hand out the documents in front of you as part of her comments.

3982
04:12:19,000 --> 04:12:20,000
thank you.

3983
04:12:21,000 --> 04:12:23,000
good evening, mayor, and...

3984
04:12:23,000 --> 04:12:26,000
pull the microphone down a little closer to your mouth.

3985
04:12:26,000 --> 04:12:27,000
that'll help.

3986
04:12:27,000 --> 04:12:27,000
there you go.

3987
04:12:27,000 --> 04:12:28,000
thank you.

3988
04:12:28,000 --> 04:12:31,000
good evening, mayor and members of city council.

3989
04:12:32,000 --> 04:12:37,000
my name is yi-ning, and I'm the owner of the delight massage and facial in laguna hills.

3990
04:12:38,000 --> 04:12:41,000
so thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today.

3991
04:12:42,000 --> 04:12:45,858
so I'm here to respectfully ask for
your approval to expand into the

3992
04:12:45,858 --> 04:12:47,000
1,600-square-foot space

3993
04:12:51,000 --> 04:12:52,000
next to our current business.

3994
04:12:53,000 --> 04:12:56,000
first, I want to make one thing very clear.

3995
04:12:57,000 --> 04:13:01,000
this expansion is not for more massage rooms.

3996
04:13:02,000 --> 04:13:06,000
we will keep our nine massage rooms exactly the same.

3997
04:13:07,000 --> 04:13:12,000
and the new space will only be used for facial and skin care service.

3998
04:13:14,000 --> 04:13:20,021
every facial room will have its own sink
to meet california's health and license

3999
04:13:20,021 --> 04:13:21,000
requirements.

4000
04:13:22,000 --> 04:13:26,000
when we opened two years ago, one facial room was enough.

4001
04:13:27,000 --> 04:13:33,808
today, many of our existing customers
ask for facial service, and one room is no

4002
04:13:33,808 --> 04:13:35,000
longer enough.

4003
04:13:38,000 --> 04:13:42,000
this expansion is simply to meet the needs of our current customers.

4004
04:13:43,000 --> 04:13:51,924
today, we have more than 400 online reviews
with 4.9 stars from google and yelp for

4005
04:13:51,924 --> 04:13:53,000
two years.

4006
04:13:55,000 --> 04:14:04,000
we have zero tolerance for anything illegal, and we also follow city and state laws.

4007
04:14:06,000 --> 04:14:10,000
I also served in the united states navy.

4008
04:14:12,000 --> 04:14:16,000
and we are not asking to become a different business.

4009
04:14:17,000 --> 04:14:23,000
we simply want to better serve our existing customers, creating more local jobs

4010
04:14:23,000 --> 04:14:27,000
and continue serving the laguna hills community.

4011
04:14:28,000 --> 04:14:31,000
and we respectfully ask for your support.

4012
04:14:31,000 --> 04:14:35,000
thank you so much for your time and your consideration.

4013
04:14:35,000 --> 04:14:37,000
I'm happy to answer any questions.

4014
04:14:38,000 --> 04:14:40,000
okay, I'll turn to my colleagues first.

4015
04:14:40,000 --> 04:14:41,000
are there any questions?

4016
04:14:43,000 --> 04:14:43,000
yes, erica.

4017
04:14:44,000 --> 04:14:45,000
this is a public comment, correct?

4018
04:14:46,000 --> 04:14:46,000
yes.

4019
04:14:47,000 --> 04:14:53,545
non-agendized public. Correct. Is there a
way that this individual can meet with the

4020
04:14:53,545 --> 04:14:59,000
attorney, meet with staff, to have
conversations versus have questions

4021
04:14:59,000 --> 04:15:07,585
here? Because we're on a moratorium on new
facilities, and I would imagine, I think

4022
04:15:07,585 --> 04:15:11,000
what you might
be concerned about

4023
04:15:11,000 --> 04:15:14,000
is that you sound like you have an ongoing business,

4024
04:15:15,000 --> 04:15:16,000
and congratulations for that.

4025
04:15:17,000 --> 04:15:22,186
and we know that there are a lot of massage
establishments within laguna hills that

4026
04:15:22,186 --> 04:15:25,000
are very reputable and
are doing a great job.

4027
04:15:26,000 --> 04:15:33,000
so if you have questions in regard to potential expansion or any of those things,

4028
04:15:34,000 --> 04:15:40,000
I probably would agree with erica to refer you first to staff and see, you know,

4029
04:15:42,000 --> 04:15:47,000
we're not trying to harm or shut down those legitimate businesses.

4030
04:15:47,000 --> 04:15:54,514
especially those who are willing to come
in and talk to the city council and even

4031
04:15:54,514 --> 04:15:56,000
wait, what, six,

4032
04:15:56,000 --> 04:15:59,000
four hours to be able to do that for a few minutes.

4033
04:16:00,000 --> 04:16:00,000
thank you.

4034
04:16:00,000 --> 04:16:10,000
so we really appreciate you, and if you have particular concerns,

4035
04:16:10,000 --> 04:16:14,218
I would have you work with staff first
if you need to bring it back to one of the

4036
04:16:14,218 --> 04:16:15,000
council people.

4037
04:16:15,000 --> 04:16:20,250
most of us are always open to talk to
constituents, and that includes even if you

4038
04:16:20,250 --> 04:16:22,000
don't live in laguna hills,

4039
04:16:22,000 --> 04:16:27,000
you're a business in laguna hills, and so we care very much about you.

4040
04:16:27,000 --> 04:16:28,000
thank you.

4041
04:16:28,000 --> 04:16:32,000
I want to make it understood that it goes two ways, okay?

4042
04:16:32,000 --> 04:16:35,000
okay, I'm still nervous, but I'm still here.

4043
04:16:35,000 --> 04:16:36,000
all right.

4044
04:16:39,000 --> 04:16:40,000
any other questions?

4045
04:16:41,000 --> 04:16:41,000
do you have any questions?

4046
04:16:41,000 --> 04:16:47,254
no, but I think the city manager will give
you his information so that you can reach

4047
04:16:47,254 --> 04:16:48,000
out to us.

4048
04:16:48,000 --> 04:16:49,000
okay.

4049
04:16:50,000 --> 04:16:50,000
yeah.

4050
04:16:51,000 --> 04:16:51,000
all right.

4051
04:16:51,000 --> 04:16:53,000
well, thank you very much.

4052
04:16:54,000 --> 04:16:57,000
do we have any telephone?

4053
04:16:57,000 --> 04:16:59,000
we've got two more in person.

4054
04:16:59,000 --> 04:17:00,000
oh, two more in person?

4055
04:17:00,000 --> 04:17:00,000
yes.

4056
04:17:01,000 --> 04:17:02,000
we have madelyn unholz.

4057
04:17:04,000 --> 04:17:04,000
all right.

4058
04:17:05,000 --> 04:17:05,000
welcome.

4059
04:17:08,000 --> 04:17:09,000
thank you for your patience.

4060
04:17:09,000 --> 04:17:10,000
thank you.

4061
04:17:10,000 --> 04:17:10,000
of course.

4062
04:17:11,000 --> 04:17:12,000
got some studying done back there.

4063
04:17:13,000 --> 04:17:14,000
switching up the agenda a little bit.

4064
04:17:15,000 --> 04:17:16,000
although erica did bring it up already.

4065
04:17:17,000 --> 04:17:18,000
my name is madelyn.

4066
04:17:18,000 --> 04:17:22,000
I've been a resident of this community for over a decade now.

4067
04:17:22,000 --> 04:17:24,000
I grew up here, went to laguna hills high school, and

4068
04:17:26,000 --> 04:17:29,325
I recently, or not recently, a couple years
ago, completed my bachelor of science in

4069
04:17:29,325 --> 04:17:30,000
criminal justice.

4070
04:17:31,000 --> 04:17:35,299
something that has been recently brought
to my attention by concerned community

4071
04:17:35,299 --> 04:17:39,000
members, as well as people in my
family and myself included, are the

4072
04:17:39,000 --> 04:17:41,000
flock safety cameras

4073
04:17:42,000 --> 04:17:43,000
that are around the city.

4074
04:17:43,000 --> 04:17:50,000
we have exactly 61 alpr cameras that are built and monitored by flock safety,

4075
04:17:50,000 --> 04:17:54,291
which is a private security and surveillance
company that we've contracted to operate

4076
04:17:54,291 --> 04:17:55,000
these cameras.

4077
04:17:56,000 --> 04:17:58,000
they continuously record your movement.

4078
04:17:58,000 --> 04:18:01,939
they do this without a warrant, without
probable cause, and without reasonable

4079
04:18:01,939 --> 04:18:03,000
suspicion of a crime.

4080
04:18:03,000 --> 04:18:07,662
every time that you drive by one of these
61 cameras in laguna hills, a snapshot is

4081
04:18:07,662 --> 04:18:08,000
taken.

4082
04:18:09,000 --> 04:18:12,000
that snapshot is then collected and transferred to flock's private corporate database,

4083
04:18:13,000 --> 04:18:16,445
which the orange county sheriff's department
and the city of laguna hills have no

4084
04:18:16,445 --> 04:18:17,000
control over.

4085
04:18:17,000 --> 04:18:21,406
the data is shared with thousands of agencies
nationwide, and flock doesn't need to

4086
04:18:21,406 --> 04:18:23,000
ask our permission to do this.

4087
04:18:24,000 --> 04:18:26,000
so what are they doing with this data?

4088
04:18:26,000 --> 04:18:28,000
honestly, I don't really have any idea.

4089
04:18:29,000 --> 04:18:31,000
and I don't really know if anyone else does either.

4090
04:18:32,000 --> 04:18:37,000
we've paid them $100,000 every year to let them watch our citizens.

4091
04:18:38,000 --> 04:18:39,000
but what do we know about the company?

4092
04:18:40,000 --> 04:18:42,000
we know that they have a history of poor security practices.

4093
04:18:43,000 --> 04:18:47,381
they often experience data breaches
and provide unauthorized access to private

4094
04:18:47,381 --> 04:18:48,000
information

4095
04:18:48,000 --> 04:18:49,000
that they collect.

4096
04:18:50,000 --> 04:18:54,611
in july of 2025, they published a misconfigured
demo website straight to their main

4097
04:18:54,611 --> 04:18:58,000
page that included administrative
login and access to over 50

4098
04:18:58,000 --> 04:18:59,000
private layers of data.

4099
04:19:00,000 --> 04:19:04,584
in november of last year, a security
researcher found flock login information for

4100
04:19:04,584 --> 04:19:06,000
sale on russian websites,

4101
04:19:06,000 --> 04:19:10,136
which launched a full-scale ftc investigation
of this company that's currently

4102
04:19:10,136 --> 04:19:13,000
ongoing, so they still haven't
come to any conclusion.

4103
04:19:13,000 --> 04:19:15,000
flock is a private corporation.

4104
04:19:15,000 --> 04:19:19,431
they have complete control over this
massive centralized database of our daily

4105
04:19:19,431 --> 04:19:20,000
movements.

4106
04:19:20,000 --> 04:19:24,315
there's no public oversight, and there
have been no independent audits of how they

4107
04:19:24,315 --> 04:19:25,000
use our data.

4108
04:19:25,000 --> 04:19:29,000
this is a for-profit tech company, not just our local police department

4109
04:19:30,000 --> 04:19:32,000
reading license plates.

4110
04:19:32,000 --> 04:19:33,000
it's much bigger than that.

4111
04:19:33,000 --> 04:19:38,234
this is a massive database that they have
of our personal data that they can pretty

4112
04:19:38,234 --> 04:19:40,000
much do with as they please.

4113
04:19:41,000 --> 04:19:44,639
a lot of people are willing to give up
freedoms in exchange for security, but flock

4114
04:19:44,639 --> 04:19:46,000
safety can't even give us that.

4115
04:19:47,000 --> 04:19:50,540
there's no independent research proving that
they reduce crime, and the research that

4116
04:19:50,540 --> 04:19:52,000
does exist is
inconclusive at best.

4117
04:19:53,000 --> 04:19:57,047
in conclusion, I would ask that laguna hills
call for an independent audit of how our

4118
04:19:57,047 --> 04:19:59,000
data is being used by
the private company

4119
04:19:59,000 --> 04:20:01,000
that they have contracted to collect it.

4120
04:20:01,000 --> 04:20:05,352
in addition, I would ask that the city
reconsider their ongoing contract with this

4121
04:20:05,352 --> 04:20:07,000
predatory surveillance company.

4122
04:20:07,000 --> 04:20:07,000
thank you.

4123
04:20:09,000 --> 04:20:09,000
okay.

4124
04:20:09,000 --> 04:20:10,000
questions?

4125
04:20:10,000 --> 04:20:11,000
dave.

4126
04:20:12,000 --> 04:20:13,000
thank you for coming in.

4127
04:20:13,000 --> 04:20:15,000
I don't like big brother either.

4128
04:20:16,000 --> 04:20:19,000
my understanding, I'm going to ask chief burk to comment,

4129
04:20:20,000 --> 04:20:23,533
is that the data that we collect on this
flock camera is supposed to be deleted in

4130
04:20:23,533 --> 04:20:25,000
something like
30 days or 60 days.

4131
04:20:26,000 --> 04:20:26,000
first of all, is that true?

4132
04:20:27,000 --> 04:20:31,000
yeah, flock states they don't keep the data over, I believe it's 30 days.

4133
04:20:31,000 --> 04:20:32,000
they do say that.

4134
04:20:32,000 --> 04:20:35,000
I would also like to note, though, as of december 2025,

4135
04:20:35,000 --> 04:20:41,893
flock has stopped providing any independent
audits or login logs to agencies that

4136
04:20:41,893 --> 04:20:43,000
request them.

4137
04:20:43,000 --> 04:20:47,826
they have not been very forthcoming with
the data that they collect and how they use

4138
04:20:47,826 --> 04:20:48,000
it.

4139
04:20:48,000 --> 04:20:49,000
okay, I'm getting that.

4140
04:20:49,000 --> 04:20:50,000
that's my point number two.

4141
04:20:50,000 --> 04:20:53,924
okay, so our contract with them: they're
supposed to delete the data roughly 30 days

4142
04:20:53,924 --> 04:20:55,000
or something like that.

4143
04:20:55,000 --> 04:20:56,000
it's not to be kept.

4144
04:20:56,000 --> 04:21:01,000
it's mainly just to see if we've got a child abduction situation.

4145
04:21:01,000 --> 04:21:02,000
they've got the license number.

4146
04:21:02,000 --> 04:21:03,000
we can find things quickly.

4147
04:21:03,000 --> 04:21:05,000
it's not meant to be kept long term.

4148
04:21:08,000 --> 04:21:13,067
counsel burns, can I ask you to look into
seeing if there are lawsuits against this

4149
04:21:13,067 --> 04:21:16,000
firm and if there are some
things we should know

4150
04:21:16,000 --> 04:21:16,000
about?

4151
04:21:17,000 --> 04:21:17,000
please advise us.

4152
04:21:19,000 --> 04:21:19,000
I can do that, yes.

4153
04:21:21,000 --> 04:21:21,000
okay.

4154
04:21:22,000 --> 04:21:25,000
we'll find out if these guys are no good.

4155
04:21:25,000 --> 04:21:29,510
I know that lapd did recently just end
their contract with them as well for similar

4156
04:21:29,510 --> 04:21:30,000
concerns,

4157
04:21:30,000 --> 04:21:33,000
so that would definitely be something to look into as well.

4158
04:21:33,000 --> 04:21:34,000
okay.

4159
04:21:34,000 --> 04:21:35,000
thank you for your comments.

4160
04:21:35,000 --> 04:21:35,000
mm-hmm.

4161
04:21:37,000 --> 04:21:37,000
thank you.

4162
04:21:38,000 --> 04:21:39,000
any other questions?

4163
04:21:39,000 --> 04:21:40,000
okay.

4164
04:21:40,000 --> 04:21:41,000
thank you again.

4165
04:21:42,000 --> 04:21:44,000
and thank you for bringing that to our attention.

4166
04:21:47,000 --> 04:21:47,000
next one.

4167
04:21:47,000 --> 04:21:50,000
I believe she has already left, but cathy udovch.

4168
04:21:52,000 --> 04:21:53,000
I believe she's already left.

4169
04:21:54,000 --> 04:21:54,000
okay.

4170
04:21:54,000 --> 04:21:56,000
and I have no one online.

4171
04:21:56,000 --> 04:21:58,000
so that is all the comments I have at this time.

4172
04:21:59,000 --> 04:21:59,000
all right.

4173
04:22:01,000 --> 04:22:07,000
so our next item on the agenda is item number five, the consent calendar.

4174
04:22:08,000 --> 04:22:13,263
all matters listed under the consent
calendar are considered routine and will be

4175
04:22:13,263 --> 04:22:18,000
enacted in one motion approving the
recommendation listed on the agenda.

4176
04:22:18,000 --> 04:22:24,774
there will be no separate discussion unless
members of the city council or city staff

4177
04:22:24,774 --> 04:22:29,000
request specific items to be
removed from the consent

4178
04:22:29,000 --> 04:22:29,000
calendar.

4179
04:22:30,000 --> 04:22:35,000
so I will ask for public comments on this.

4180
04:22:35,000 --> 04:22:40,000
consent calendar? Sorry, I have none. There are none, okay?

4181
04:22:42,000 --> 04:22:47,600
all right, and I will ask the council members
or staff: would you like to remove any

4182
04:22:47,600 --> 04:22:48,000
items?

4183
04:22:48,000 --> 04:22:59,000
dave? 5.2. 5.2. Anyone else? I'll move the balance. Second. Second.

4184
04:23:01,000 --> 04:23:05,000
and we have a motion and a second to approve the balance.

4185
04:23:06,000 --> 04:23:10,000
I'll ask the clerk to call the roll.

4186
04:23:11,000 --> 04:23:12,000
mayor pro tem mathis?

4187
04:23:14,000 --> 04:23:14,000
aye.

4188
04:23:15,000 --> 04:23:16,000
council member pezold?

4189
04:23:17,000 --> 04:23:17,000
aye.

4190
04:23:18,000 --> 04:23:19,000
mayor caskey?

4191
04:23:19,000 --> 04:23:19,000
aye.

4192
04:23:20,000 --> 04:23:21,000
council member wheeler?

4193
04:23:21,000 --> 04:23:22,000
aye.

4194
04:23:22,000 --> 04:23:23,000
council member sweeney?

4195
04:23:23,000 --> 04:23:23,000
aye.

4196
04:23:24,000 --> 04:23:25,000
okay.

4197
04:23:26,000 --> 04:23:27,000
so now let's move on to 5.2.

4198
04:23:27,000 --> 04:23:27,000
dave.

4199
04:23:29,000 --> 04:23:32,000
yes, I removed 5.2 just for the sake of it.

4200
04:23:32,000 --> 04:23:34,000
I need to abstain from that since I was not at that meeting.

4201
04:23:36,000 --> 04:23:36,000
that's all.

4202
04:23:39,000 --> 04:23:40,000
I'm sorry, I didn't quite...

4203
04:23:43,000 --> 04:23:45,000
I was not at the meeting, so I need to abstain from that.

4204
04:23:45,000 --> 04:23:46,000
oh, you're not?

4205
04:23:46,000 --> 04:23:46,000
oh, okay.

4206
04:23:46,000 --> 04:23:48,000
and I'll move to vote.

4207
04:23:48,000 --> 04:23:49,000
second.

4208
04:23:49,000 --> 04:23:49,000
okay.

4209
04:23:57,000 --> 04:24:00,000
we have a second, right, with josh, and call the roll.

4210
04:24:00,000 --> 04:24:01,000
I'm sorry.

4211
04:24:01,000 --> 04:24:02,000
who was the motion? Who motioned?

4212
04:24:02,000 --> 04:24:13,333
dave wheeler, okay. All right, we'll call
the roll. Just a point of clarification:

4213
04:24:13,333 --> 04:24:19,000
you abstained? Yes.
Can you push the item

4214
04:24:20,000 --> 04:24:23,000
even though you're abstaining? Who made the original motion to approve?

4215
04:24:24,000 --> 04:24:24,000
that's okay.

4216
04:24:24,000 --> 04:24:25,000
excuse me?

4217
04:24:25,000 --> 04:24:26,000
who made the motion to approve?

4218
04:24:26,000 --> 04:24:27,000
was it council member wheeler?

4219
04:24:27,000 --> 04:24:28,000
yes.

4220
04:24:28,000 --> 04:24:29,000
I've never seen that before.

4221
04:24:29,000 --> 04:24:30,000
that's what I'm saying.

4222
04:24:30,000 --> 04:24:33,000
is there another council member that can make the motion?

4223
04:24:33,000 --> 04:24:34,000
I'll move it.

4224
04:24:34,000 --> 04:24:34,000
yes.

4225
04:24:34,000 --> 04:24:35,000
I'm not sure if he can or if he can't.

4226
04:24:35,000 --> 04:24:36,000
I've just never seen it before.

4227
04:24:36,000 --> 04:24:37,000
I've never seen it.

4228
04:24:37,000 --> 04:24:38,000
so we have a different motion.

4229
04:24:39,000 --> 04:24:40,000
I'll second.

4230
04:24:40,000 --> 04:24:41,000
and we have a second.

4231
04:24:42,000 --> 04:24:44,000
moved and seconded.

4232
04:24:44,000 --> 04:24:46,000
good catch, erica.

4233
04:24:47,000 --> 04:24:48,000
and we'll take a vote.

4234
04:24:48,000 --> 04:24:49,000
yes.

4235
04:24:49,000 --> 04:24:49,000
council member sweeney?

4236
04:24:49,000 --> 04:24:50,000
aye.

4237
04:24:51,000 --> 04:24:51,000
council member wheeler?

4238
04:24:52,000 --> 04:24:52,000
abstain.

4239
04:24:53,000 --> 04:24:54,000
mayor pro tem mathis?

4240
04:24:54,000 --> 04:24:54,000
aye.

4241
04:24:55,000 --> 04:24:56,000
council member pezold?

4242
04:24:56,000 --> 04:24:56,000
aye.

4243
04:24:57,000 --> 04:24:57,000
mayor caskey?

4244
04:24:58,000 --> 04:24:58,000
aye.

4245
04:25:00,000 --> 04:25:00,000
okay.

4246
04:25:00,000 --> 04:25:03,000
I'm going to turn a few pages here.

4247
04:25:06,000 --> 04:25:07,000
catch up on all of that.

4248
04:25:08,000 --> 04:25:08,000
there we go.

4249
04:25:17,000 --> 04:25:19,000
all right, now we move to item 6.1.

4250
04:25:20,000 --> 04:25:27,610
I believe it's confirmation of the 2026
weed abatement cost report, and we have a

4251
04:25:27,610 --> 04:25:34,000
recommendation to city council to
conduct a public hearing regarding

4252
04:25:34,000 --> 04:25:41,566
the weed abatement cost report and adopt
a resolution, and I will be very brief with

4253
04:25:41,566 --> 04:25:44,000
all of those words, and I'm

4254
04:25:44,000 --> 04:25:45,000
going to announce

4255
04:25:46,000 --> 04:25:54,736
that this is a public hearing for the 2026
weed abatement cost report, and I welcome

4256
04:25:54,736 --> 04:25:59,000
all to this public
hearing and this item,

4257
04:26:00,000 --> 04:26:05,659
and the public is welcome to
make a comment if they so wish.

4258
04:26:05,659 --> 04:26:10,000
so I'm going to turn
right away to—well, do we

4259
04:26:10,000 --> 04:26:13,000
have the public comments first, or you, joe?

4260
04:26:15,000 --> 04:26:18,000
presentation? Should I do a presentation, or city clerk?

4261
04:26:20,000 --> 04:26:22,000
yes, I currently have no comments for this at this time.

4262
04:26:23,000 --> 04:26:23,000
okay.

4263
04:26:23,000 --> 04:26:25,000
well then, why don't you just go ahead with your presentation?

4264
04:26:25,000 --> 04:26:32,137
it's a very short presentation. City staff
is asking city council to conduct a public

4265
04:26:32,137 --> 04:26:36,000
hearing regarding the
2026—it's a typo on your

4266
04:26:36,000 --> 04:26:40,000
agenda report—2026 weed abatement cost report and

4267
04:26:40,000 --> 04:26:45,000
to adopt a resolution confirming the 2026 weed abatement cost report.

4268
04:26:46,000 --> 04:26:54,000
essentially, the report indicates that we have cleared one private property of weeds,

4269
04:26:54,000 --> 04:27:01,438
and this is the time and place for the
property owner to object to the levying of

4270
04:27:01,438 --> 04:27:03,000
charges for that.

4271
04:27:03,000 --> 04:27:05,000
that concludes my staff report.

4272
04:27:07,000 --> 04:27:08,000
all right.

4273
04:27:08,000 --> 04:27:10,000
I have a whole list of things we would do.

4274
04:27:10,000 --> 04:27:12,000
we have no public comments.

4275
04:27:13,000 --> 04:27:19,018
and so I'm going to cut to the chase here
and basically ask if the council members

4276
04:27:19,018 --> 04:27:21,000
have any questions for joe.

4277
04:27:23,000 --> 04:27:24,000
oh, david, sorry.

4278
04:27:25,000 --> 04:27:25,000
just one quick question.

4279
04:27:26,000 --> 04:27:30,000
is this the abatement in general, or just one specific person that won't comply?

4280
04:27:31,000 --> 04:27:35,335
this is weed abatement in general, and
everybody complied except for one person, whom

4281
04:27:35,335 --> 04:27:36,000
we contacted.

4282
04:27:36,000 --> 04:27:39,000
and it's the same usual customer, and they keep paying the bill.

4283
04:27:40,000 --> 04:27:42,000
okay.

4284
04:27:42,000 --> 04:27:47,250
have we added to the regular maintenance
the area that we determined last year was a

4285
04:27:47,250 --> 04:27:48,000
fire hazard?

4286
04:27:49,000 --> 04:27:56,155
that's not directly related to this agenda
item, but regarding your question that I

4287
04:27:56,155 --> 04:27:59,000
think we talked
about previously,

4288
04:27:59,000 --> 04:28:05,000
the public works operating budget was previously increased to allow for that to occur.

4289
04:28:05,000 --> 04:28:05,000
okay.

4290
04:28:06,000 --> 04:28:06,000
I'm sorry.

4291
04:28:06,000 --> 04:28:07,000
I thought it was part of this abatement.

4292
04:28:07,000 --> 04:28:07,000
no worries.

4293
04:28:07,000 --> 04:28:09,000
this is for private property parcels.

4294
04:28:09,000 --> 04:28:09,000
okay.

4295
04:28:09,000 --> 04:28:10,000
thank you.

4296
04:28:12,000 --> 04:28:16,015
all right, and because we've already been
told there is nobody in the audience or

4297
04:28:16,015 --> 04:28:18,000
online that wants
to speak to the issue,

4298
04:28:18,000 --> 04:28:23,349
I'm going to close the public hearing I
just opened and bring it back to the city

4299
04:28:23,349 --> 04:28:25,000
council for deliberation.

4300
04:28:25,000 --> 04:28:31,000
do we have any deliberations or comments and/or motions?

4301
04:28:32,000 --> 04:28:33,000
I'll move to adopt the resolution.

4302
04:28:33,000 --> 04:28:34,000
I'll second.

4303
04:28:35,000 --> 04:28:35,000
all right.

4304
04:28:36,000 --> 04:28:38,000
any comments beyond that?

4305
04:28:39,000 --> 04:28:39,000
okay.

4306
04:28:39,000 --> 04:28:44,000
then we're going to call for the vote, and we'll call for the roll call.

4307
04:28:45,000 --> 04:28:45,000
mayor caskey?

4308
04:28:46,000 --> 04:28:46,000
aye.

4309
04:28:46,000 --> 04:28:47,000
council member pezold?

4310
04:28:48,000 --> 04:28:48,000
aye.

4311
04:28:48,000 --> 04:28:49,000
council member wheeler?

4312
04:28:49,000 --> 04:28:49,000
aye.

4313
04:28:50,000 --> 04:28:50,000
council member sweeney?

4314
04:28:51,000 --> 04:28:51,000
aye.

4315
04:28:51,000 --> 04:28:52,000
mayor pro tem mathis?

4316
04:28:52,000 --> 04:28:52,000
aye.

4317
04:28:54,000 --> 04:28:54,000
okay.

4318
04:28:54,000 --> 04:28:56,000
and then the next item on the list, item number seven.

4319
04:28:57,000 --> 04:29:03,000
city manager's report, and I'll ask you, bob, if you have anything to report.

4320
04:29:04,000 --> 04:29:05,000
no reports this evening, mayor.

4321
04:29:05,000 --> 04:29:06,000
okay.

4322
04:29:07,000 --> 04:29:12,441
now we have item number eight, matters
agendized and presented by city council

4323
04:29:12,441 --> 04:29:13,000
members.

4324
04:29:14,000 --> 04:29:20,000
and we have, I believe, three of us tonight, maybe four.

4325
04:29:20,000 --> 04:29:23,000
so we will start with council member wheeler.

4326
04:29:24,000 --> 04:29:24,000
uh...

4327
04:29:25,000 --> 04:29:30,000
orange county older adults advisory commission.

4328
04:29:30,000 --> 04:29:34,000
in the interest of time, I'll make it real quick.

4329
04:29:34,000 --> 04:29:39,418
we had our regular meeting; information was
delivered for the people there. They did

4330
04:29:39,418 --> 04:29:40,000
adopt our

4331
04:29:41,000 --> 04:29:47,000
metrics to take care of the goals for this year, and so that was a good thing.

4332
04:29:49,000 --> 04:29:55,465
guess I'm next with the scag report.
The southern california association of

4333
04:29:55,465 --> 04:29:59,000
governments did have
a meeting last week.

4334
04:29:59,000 --> 04:30:05,745
I attended it, and most of the meeting was
logistical and in regards to meeting dates

4335
04:30:05,745 --> 04:30:09,000
and calendars and
the rest of that. There

4336
04:30:10,000 --> 04:30:12,000
were two reports that were made

4337
04:30:13,000 --> 04:30:18,509
about projects that had been sponsored
by scag, mainly in the interest of

4338
04:30:18,509 --> 04:30:21,000
transportation
and redevelopment.

4339
04:30:21,000 --> 04:30:23,000
one was in fox hills.

4340
04:30:23,000 --> 04:30:26,000
the other one was in san bernardino.

4341
04:30:27,000 --> 04:30:31,863
the one in fox hills was certainly interesting
because you could actually get your

4342
04:30:31,863 --> 04:30:34,000
arms around
something that happened.

4343
04:30:34,000 --> 04:30:36,000
the one in san bernardino,

4344
04:30:36,000 --> 04:30:38,000
it was more of a planning project.

4345
04:30:40,000 --> 04:30:45,824
both were well done, but there's not much
to report on in regards to something that

4346
04:30:45,824 --> 04:30:48,000
our city can take and run with.

4347
04:30:49,000 --> 04:30:54,415
other than the fact that we should always,
in regards to any of these associations

4348
04:30:54,415 --> 04:30:56,000
that we belong to, every

4349
04:30:57,000 --> 04:30:59,000
once in a while the opportunity opens up

4350
04:31:00,000 --> 04:31:07,263
for grants and things like that, that if
they do happen to work and be symbiotic with

4351
04:31:07,263 --> 04:31:10,000
the needs of the city, should be

4352
04:31:10,000 --> 04:31:13,000
something that we look at and maybe take advantage of.

4353
04:31:14,000 --> 04:31:20,509
and occasionally, in the case of scag, I
would have to say some of those things are

4354
04:31:20,509 --> 04:31:22,000
more environmental.

4355
04:31:22,000 --> 04:31:27,665
and some of the cities around south orange
county have taken advantage of that in the

4356
04:31:27,665 --> 04:31:28,000
past.

4357
04:31:28,000 --> 04:31:33,980
and we'll just keep our eye on those things,
and if it's possibly something that we

4358
04:31:33,980 --> 04:31:36,000
can go after, then we might.

4359
04:31:37,000 --> 04:31:43,000
and with that, I will go to council member sweeney for the ocfa report.

4360
04:31:43,000 --> 04:31:44,000
thank you, mayor.

4361
04:31:44,000 --> 04:31:45,000
I appreciate that.

4362
04:31:45,000 --> 04:31:47,000
if I could please pull up my presentation.

4363
04:31:47,000 --> 04:31:49,000
I have a 15-minute presentation I'd like to do.

4364
04:31:50,000 --> 04:31:53,584
very briefly, the orange county fire
authority continues to move forward with its

4365
04:31:53,584 --> 04:31:55,000
budget and strategic priorities.

4366
04:31:55,000 --> 04:31:59,100
at our recent board meeting, we addressed
the upcoming fiscal year budget, federal

4367
04:31:59,100 --> 04:32:02,000
grant updates, and several
operational and policy matters.

4368
04:32:02,000 --> 04:32:06,850
ocfa continues to prepare for fire season
and ensure that we have the resources

4369
04:32:06,850 --> 04:32:09,000
necessary to serve
our communities.

4370
04:32:10,000 --> 04:32:10,000
given the hour,

4371
04:32:11,000 --> 04:32:19,792
that's all I have. Okay, great. And the last
one would be council member pezold with

4372
04:32:19,792 --> 04:32:23,000
the tca report. Yes, and in the

4373
04:32:24,000 --> 04:32:33,608
spirit of the hour, I will also be providing
a short presentation. The transportation

4374
04:32:33,608 --> 04:32:37,000
corridor agencies met july 9th

4375
04:32:38,000 --> 04:32:44,238
and we passed, the board of directors
passed, the open market bond buyback program

4376
04:32:44,238 --> 04:32:45,000
amendment,

4377
04:32:47,000 --> 04:32:54,000
the 241-91 express connector public outreach and marketing services contract.

4378
04:32:56,000 --> 04:33:01,000
we were provided a state and federal legislative update.

4379
04:33:01,000 --> 04:33:07,000
and one interesting item was the changeable message signs.

4380
04:33:08,000 --> 04:33:11,000
so we look forward to seeing those come up.

4381
04:33:12,000 --> 04:33:20,129
and the chief executive officer provided
updates with more awards that the board has

4382
04:33:20,129 --> 04:33:21,000
received.

4383
04:33:21,000 --> 04:33:23,000
so anyway, with that, I conclude my report.

4384
04:33:24,000 --> 04:33:25,000
thank you, erica.

4385
04:33:26,000 --> 04:33:30,000
that leads us to council member comments.

4386
04:33:31,000 --> 04:33:36,483
I believe the city manager has a comment
that he would like to make, too, so I'll let

4387
04:33:36,483 --> 04:33:39,000
him throw that in
there first, and then

4388
04:33:39,000 --> 04:33:42,000
we'll go straight to us. Thank you, mayor and members of the council.

4389
04:33:43,000 --> 04:33:50,132
I just wanted to do a big shout-out to our
new city clerk, joshua, and georgia; they

4390
04:33:50,132 --> 04:33:52,000
managed, for the first

4391
04:33:52,000 --> 04:33:57,000
time ever, our new 707 rules and all the technology, and

4392
04:33:58,000 --> 04:34:02,000
robert, thank you for the great work that you've done on that.

4393
04:34:02,000 --> 04:34:07,669
and so to come out of the box in a big
meeting like this, it just was outstanding

4394
04:34:07,669 --> 04:34:09,000
work for everybody.

4395
04:34:09,000 --> 04:34:09,000
so thank you.

4396
04:34:10,000 --> 04:34:10,000
thank you, mayor.

4397
04:34:11,000 --> 04:34:12,000
okay.

4398
04:34:13,000 --> 04:34:17,000
next up, I'll go right to the order that came up.

4399
04:34:17,000 --> 04:34:18,000
jared mathis.

4400
04:34:19,000 --> 04:34:23,902
first of all, for the record, I just want
to say it's so good to have you back in the

4401
04:34:23,902 --> 04:34:25,000
room. Thank you for

4402
04:34:25,000 --> 04:34:30,129
being here, and also want to give a big
thank you to your wife, susie, because I know

4403
04:34:30,129 --> 04:34:32,000
you can't do this kind of thing

4404
04:34:32,000 --> 04:34:33,000
alone

4405
04:34:33,000 --> 04:34:34,000
to get

4406
04:34:34,000 --> 04:34:36,000
through what you've been facing, so

4407
04:34:37,000 --> 04:34:39,000
we're all better off with you in the room, and

4408
04:34:40,000 --> 04:34:43,776
thank you for making the effort to be here,
and thank you, susie, for helping get him

4409
04:34:43,776 --> 04:34:44,000
here.

4410
04:34:45,000 --> 04:34:48,000
a lot more than just getting me here.

4411
04:34:48,000 --> 04:34:50,000
but I won't get into the details.

4412
04:34:50,000 --> 04:34:52,000
you don't need that.

4413
04:34:52,000 --> 04:34:53,000
next up is dave wheeler.

4414
04:34:55,000 --> 04:34:55,000
thank you.

4415
04:34:56,000 --> 04:35:02,000
basically, I have two commendations for holland gannon.

4416
04:35:04,000 --> 04:35:09,658
I received many, many emails that said
laguna hills' fireworks display was the best

4417
04:35:09,658 --> 04:35:13,000
in the whole area, and
they actually had a couple

4418
04:35:13,000 --> 04:35:17,401
of comments that kind of denigrated a couple
of neighbor cities whose names I won't

4419
04:35:17,401 --> 04:35:20,000
mention, but said theirs
was, you know, not good.

4420
04:35:20,000 --> 04:35:25,794
I'll leave it at that, and ours was great.
And the second thing, another commendation

4421
04:35:25,794 --> 04:35:26,000
and

4422
04:35:26,000 --> 04:35:31,408
good work, was from a city council member
at laguna woods who's seen our new banners,

4423
04:35:31,408 --> 04:35:33,000
said they'd been noticed,

4424
04:35:33,000 --> 04:35:34,000
and said they really liked it.

4425
04:35:34,000 --> 04:35:38,651
and the uniqueness and tying them into
laguna hills was really, you know, a good

4426
04:35:38,651 --> 04:35:39,000
thing.

4427
04:35:39,000 --> 04:35:44,000
and that was passed on from a fellow city council member in another city.

4428
04:35:44,000 --> 04:35:45,000
thank you.

4429
04:35:47,000 --> 04:35:47,000
okay.

4430
04:35:47,000 --> 04:35:51,000
next up would be josh.

4431
04:35:52,000 --> 04:35:52,000
thank you, mr.

4432
04:35:52,000 --> 04:35:53,000
mayor.

4433
04:35:53,000 --> 04:35:54,000
I wanted to echo jared's comments.

4434
04:35:55,000 --> 04:35:56,000
so great to have you back.

4435
04:35:56,000 --> 04:35:58,000
it's good to have you on the dais with us again.

4436
04:35:58,000 --> 04:35:59,000
welcome back.

4437
04:35:59,000 --> 04:36:01,000
and great job running this meeting.

4438
04:36:02,000 --> 04:36:04,000
and thank you, susie, for sticking it out as well.

4439
04:36:05,000 --> 04:36:09,000
and to the chair of our traffic commission, we have mr.

4440
04:36:09,000 --> 04:36:09,000
scott miller.

4441
04:36:10,000 --> 04:36:10,000
thanks for sticking it out.

4442
04:36:11,000 --> 04:36:12,000
and thank you for being here tonight.

4443
04:36:13,000 --> 04:36:15,000
and all of our staff, thank you.

4444
04:36:15,000 --> 04:36:20,000
I know you guys put in a ton of time, a ton of effort, and did a great job.

4445
04:36:21,000 --> 04:36:24,000
and joshua, welcome to your first amazing meeting.

4446
04:36:27,000 --> 04:36:29,000
and last we have erica.

4447
04:36:29,000 --> 04:36:31,000
yes, not least.

4448
04:36:31,000 --> 04:36:40,520
I'll be less. Well, I wanted to also
highlight the 250th fourth of july.

4449
04:36:40,520 --> 04:36:47,000
as I understand it, it was
a wonderful event, and

4450
04:36:48,000 --> 04:36:54,000
unfortunately, I was not around, for good reasons, and I was out of

4451
04:36:56,000 --> 04:37:02,262
but I think that a number of people were
really, from what I understand in talking to

4452
04:37:02,262 --> 04:37:03,000
residents,

4453
04:37:04,000 --> 04:37:08,886
they were really happy with the fireworks
display, and they're hopeful that we can

4454
04:37:08,886 --> 04:37:13,000
continue to have a fireworks
display of that magnitude in the future.

4455
04:37:13,000 --> 04:37:18,029
I don't know if it's possible, but that was
something that was a consistent message

4456
04:37:18,029 --> 04:37:21,000
provided: that they really
enjoyed the fireworks.

4457
04:37:21,000 --> 04:37:24,000
and if they can't have fireworks in the city, they

4458
04:37:25,000 --> 04:37:29,000
appreciate the fireworks show that was provided.

4459
04:37:29,000 --> 04:37:35,000
so I think that it was, from what I understand, everything was done really well.

4460
04:37:35,000 --> 04:37:39,000
and I also want to welcome joshua as well.

4461
04:37:41,000 --> 04:37:43,000
very nice to have you here.

4462
04:37:43,000 --> 04:37:49,000
and your professionalism is very evident.

4463
04:37:49,000 --> 04:37:53,000
so anyway, with that, I yield my comments.

4464
04:37:55,000 --> 04:37:57,000
okay, so I guess I'll go last.

4465
04:37:58,000 --> 04:38:01,000
well, I've got to reiterate the same thing about the 250th celebration.

4466
04:38:02,000 --> 04:38:07,443
not only did I receive emails, but we've
received direct comments from people in the

4467
04:38:07,443 --> 04:38:09,000
audience who said, whoa.

4468
04:38:11,000 --> 04:38:14,377
and I won't say that was the bomb,
because that would be a pun that would be

4469
04:38:14,377 --> 04:38:15,000
inappropriate.

4470
04:38:16,000 --> 04:38:24,000
but it was probably, in my years of looking at the fireworks that we do, the best.

4471
04:38:25,000 --> 04:38:26,000
it is the best that we've ever done.

4472
04:38:27,000 --> 04:38:28,000
and it wasn't by a little bit.

4473
04:38:29,000 --> 04:38:30,000
it was by a lot.

4474
04:38:30,000 --> 04:38:34,000
and we have everybody on this council to thank.

4475
04:38:34,000 --> 04:38:36,000
but thank you, dave, for really pushing the idea.

4476
04:38:37,000 --> 04:38:41,000
and I also want to thank the people who were up on the stage.

4477
04:38:42,000 --> 04:38:43,000
I couldn't be there that night.

4478
04:38:43,000 --> 04:38:46,000
and yet we had plenty of volunteers.

4479
04:38:46,000 --> 04:38:48,000
and dave did a great job.

4480
04:38:48,000 --> 04:38:53,000
mayor pro tem mathis basically

4481
04:38:54,000 --> 04:39:01,386
facilitated the whole thing, plus acted
as a cheerleader at the end, and josh also

4482
04:39:01,386 --> 04:39:04,000
made it, and we did it all in

4483
04:39:04,000 --> 04:39:10,611
about six minutes. I was timing it because
the audience by that time is chanting, you

4484
04:39:10,611 --> 04:39:11,000
know,

4485
04:39:11,000 --> 04:39:15,000
they just wanted to see the fireworks. But they were all really, really good

4486
04:39:15,000 --> 04:39:22,849
presentations by all of you, and then mayor
pro tem kind of beat the drum and got it

4487
04:39:22,849 --> 04:39:25,000
going right at the last

4488
04:39:25,000 --> 04:39:28,651
moment, and that's
really the way it went.

4489
04:39:28,651 --> 04:39:35,000
so I want to thank all of my colleagues
for being involved in that. It is

4490
04:39:35,000 --> 04:39:39,000
really great to be back up here, and

4491
04:39:40,000 --> 04:39:45,376
I'm still in a wheelchair, but I'm going
to get to the point where hopefully I'll be

4492
04:39:45,376 --> 04:39:48,000
totally mobile again
by the next meeting,

4493
04:39:49,000 --> 04:39:51,000
which will be at the end of august.

4494
04:39:51,000 --> 04:39:54,000
and so I'm looking forward to that.

4495
04:39:55,000 --> 04:39:59,770
I haven't skipped a beat on any of the
things we've been doing behind the scenes at

4496
04:39:59,770 --> 04:40:00,000
all.

4497
04:40:01,000 --> 04:40:06,000
and so even though you didn't see me necessarily other than on a zoom thing,

4498
04:40:07,000 --> 04:40:09,000
I was involved in everything.

4499
04:40:10,000 --> 04:40:12,000
and so it really is good to be back.

4500
04:40:12,000 --> 04:40:15,000
and I really appreciate this council.

4501
04:40:15,000 --> 04:40:19,958
I appreciate the fact that we're all here
to serve our city and to make it better

4502
04:40:19,958 --> 04:40:21,000
than we found it.

4503
04:40:22,000 --> 04:40:24,000
and we don't always agree on everything.

4504
04:40:24,000 --> 04:40:27,000
and I don't have a problem with that personally.

4505
04:40:27,000 --> 04:40:28,000
I like that.

4506
04:40:28,000 --> 04:40:29,000
I love debate.

4507
04:40:30,000 --> 04:40:33,000
and so we got some tonight.

4508
04:40:33,000 --> 04:40:35,000
and then a decision was made.

4509
04:40:36,000 --> 04:40:40,000
I'll only make one other comment about a couple of things in that regard.

4510
04:40:41,000 --> 04:40:51,000
the uvsp is—if jen is still here, what was the date of that?

4511
04:40:51,000 --> 04:40:56,000
of when it was originally adopted?

4512
04:40:57,000 --> 04:40:59,000
yeah, the uvsp, the actual.

4513
04:40:59,000 --> 04:40:59,000
2002. 2006.

4514
04:40:59,000 --> 04:40:59,000
two.

4515
04:40:59,000 --> 04:40:59,000
two, 2002.

4516
04:41:05,000 --> 04:41:11,427
twenty-four years ago, the uvsp had the mall
in it as if it was anticipating that all

4517
04:41:11,427 --> 04:41:14,000
these new things
would work around

4518
04:41:14,000 --> 04:41:19,503
a mall. Things change in 24
years. Things change in 10 years.

4519
04:41:19,503 --> 04:41:26,000
as a professional in the business,
most planning documents are worthless

4520
04:41:27,000 --> 04:41:27,000
after 10 years, and

4521
04:41:28,000 --> 04:41:32,000
this is 24 years old, and it was being used a lot tonight,

4522
04:41:32,000 --> 04:41:38,354
but I'm going to go beyond that just to talk
about planning documents in general, you

4523
04:41:38,354 --> 04:41:40,000
know, have a lifetime.

4524
04:41:41,000 --> 04:41:45,000
and just like everything else, you know, the economy, you name it, things change.

4525
04:41:46,000 --> 04:41:51,924
so the only other comment I wanted to
make was the applicant for this particular

4526
04:41:51,924 --> 04:41:54,000
project, which was approved,

4527
04:41:56,000 --> 04:41:58,000
had, going into the room,

4528
04:41:59,000 --> 04:42:08,000
entitlement from 2022 for the mall project as it was entitled at that time.

4529
04:42:09,000 --> 04:42:15,639
it was not the same thing as coming in
having no entitlement and trying to get your

4530
04:42:15,639 --> 04:42:17,000
project approved.

4531
04:42:17,000 --> 04:42:20,000
there were a lot more things than just rearranging the deck chairs.

4532
04:42:20,000 --> 04:42:21,000
I will admit that.

4533
04:42:22,000 --> 04:42:26,640
there was a lot of due diligence done,
and I want to thank the staff who have been

4534
04:42:26,640 --> 04:42:28,000
working their tails off.

4535
04:42:29,000 --> 04:42:31,000
I would use a different word, but it wouldn't be appropriate.

4536
04:42:33,000 --> 04:42:40,263
and they have been really dedicated to doing
a good and fair-minded job. This was no,

4537
04:42:40,263 --> 04:42:43,000
you know, run-it-up-the-flagpole

4538
04:42:43,000 --> 04:42:48,264
kind of a thing at all, and so I really want
to compliment the staff and everyone who

4539
04:42:48,264 --> 04:42:50,000
has been involved, you know,

4540
04:42:51,000 --> 04:42:55,000
in the process, and I want to thank the council, all of you,

4541
04:42:56,000 --> 04:43:00,000
for your comments and your concerns and your questions tonight.

4542
04:43:01,000 --> 04:43:03,000
and we move on from there.

4543
04:43:04,000 --> 04:43:13,000
and I really appreciated the decorum that was demonstrated tonight on the dais.

4544
04:43:13,000 --> 04:43:15,000
so with that, I'll end my comments.

4545
04:43:17,000 --> 04:43:20,000
and with that, we are...

4546
04:43:21,000 --> 04:43:23,000
to adjournment, which

4547
04:43:23,000 --> 04:43:30,775
our next announced regular meeting of the
city council and planning agency will be

4548
04:43:30,775 --> 04:43:34,000
august 26, 2026,
at 6 p.m. For the

4549
04:43:34,000 --> 04:43:49,000
general session. We're adjourned.

4550
04:43:50,000 --> 04:43:52,000


4551
04:43:52,000 --> 04:43:56,000


4552
04:43:56,000 --> 04:43:58,000


4553
04:43:58,000 --> 04:43:59,000