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we're meeting, and I will call
this meeting to order four o'clock.

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and I'm going to ask the city clerk
for a roll call to city council and

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the planning agency members.

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thank you mayor, let
the record show that there is

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a quorum of council and
the planning agency present.

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okay, thank you.

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all right, we're going to
start with public comments.

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this is a time to address the city council
on any matter, not listed on this agenda.

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that is within the subject matter
jurisdiction of the city council.

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public comments are limited to three minutes
per person, as determined by the mayor.

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which means I might let
you finish your thought,

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because we want to
keep it moving along.

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and I see we've got a lot of public
comments that came in electronically.

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so we may have a lot
of action today even

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though the seats
aren't that full out there.

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but we've got a lot of people
believe in these subject matters.

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if you are participating remotely
and wish to speak, dial star nine

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on a telephone now to raise your
hand to indicate you wish to speak.

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you will be identified by the last
four digits of your phone number.

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and when you have been recognized
to speak, dial star six to unmute.

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so I will ask the city clerk if there are
any public comments on non-agendized items.

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I do not have any.

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okay, here I made
this big deal that it

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was not going to be
so quiet in your regard.

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>> all right, so we'll move
on to an actual agenda's item.

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this is the joint meeting of the
planning agency in the city council.

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and the first item is 2.1.

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a reason of our zne-0014-2026.

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general plan amendment gpa,
zoning code, text amendment,

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zta, and zone change
zc for net loss compliance.

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the proposal amendments consist
of a general plan amendment to

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amend the land use element to
comply with the known net loss law.

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the government code section 65863 by
specifying that select housing element sites

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may be developed at residential densities
between 30 and 80 dwellings per acre.

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item b, a zoning text amendment
to implement the amended

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land use element by
renaming the existing housing.

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it prints h overlay zone to
housing 50 to housing 50

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overlay zone and introducing
a new housing 80 overlay zone.

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and c, item c, a zone change to
apply to the housing 50 overlay zone.

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and housing 80 overlay zone to 23 501
and 23 through 23, 561, ridgeroot drive.

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I'm going to read the apm.

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and paseo de valencia, apm 62221-42
and 620-221-624 and 620-21-49.

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and to additional properties are
specified in the proposed ordinance.

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so we're going to conduct a public hearing.

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we're going to find that general plan
amendment zoning text amendment and zone

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change are statutorily exempt from
review under the california environmental

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quality act ceqa pursuant to california
public resources code section 21-080.085

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as project implements the schedule of
actions contained in the city's certified.

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2,000 and 1 through 2,000
and 29 housing element.

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we're also going to adopt a
resolution and look at adopting

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a resolution and title
resolution of the city council.

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the city of laguna hills adopting the
general plan amendment to, and this

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is the repeat of what I said in
general before, but I'll do it again.

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rcne-014-2026 to amend
the laguna hills general

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plan land use element
for the 2021 through 2029

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planning period to
incorporate revisions pursuant to

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the government code
section 65863, no net loss law.

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that, that ensure that development
opportunities remain available throughout the

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housing element planning period, which is
through 2029 to accommodate the jurisdiction

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regional housing need allocation rhna as
community development and to amend the

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laguna hills general plan and land use
element to implement the housing element.

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and introduce, I'm going to
introduce for the first reading and we're

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going to read by title and wave
further reading of the ordinance

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entitled and ordinance of the city
of laguna hills, california adopting

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zoning text amendment and zoning
map amendment number rzne-014-2026.

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one, a text amendment to title nine
zoning and subdivisions of the laguna

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hills municipal code to implement
the general plan housing element by

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amending chapter 9-11 overlay districts
to implement the amended land use

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element by renaming the existing
housing h overlay zone to housing 50.

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an overlay zone and overlay
zone and introducing a new

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housing 80 overlay zone and
a his own change to apply the

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housing 50 overlay zone
and housing 80 overlay zone to

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23 501 through 23 561 ridge
route drive apn 588-331-12.

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and then 25201, an address again through
25241, paseo de valencia apn 620-221-42

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and 620-221-44 and finally 620-221-49
and to additional properties as specified.

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in the proposed ordinance that is a mouthful,
this is a public hearing for the general

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plan amendment zoning code amendment
and zone change for no net less compliance

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welcome

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all and this is public hearing item public
is welcome and and all will be given the

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opportunity to speak on this item, I would
say tonight but it's not quite tonight yet.

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and so I will start by
calling for a staff report

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and receive the staff
presentation and report

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asking that of the community
development director

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jennifer lowe to present
that staff report jennifer.

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good afternoon mayor and members of the
council, I would like to introduce amanda

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tropiano of de novo planning group she
will be giving the presentation, thank you.

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good afternoon, I am excited
to be back in front of you

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this evening and present an
overview of the project you just

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introduced so with that we
will go ahead and start with a

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review of the timeline of events
which has brought this item.

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this item to your attention, first in june
of 2022 the city council adopted it's 2021

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to

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2029 housing element in substantial
compliance with state housing element law in

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september

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of that same year the city received comments
from the california department of housing

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and community development or hcd requesting
revisions to that adopted housing element.

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and in may of 2023 the city
received further comments

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that required additional
modifications in order for the

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department of housing and
community development to find

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that it met the requirements
of the housing element law.

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in march of 2024 the city council re
adopted it's 2021 to 2029 housing element

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you may also hear me referred to that
as the sixth cycle housing element and

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completed the required rezoning program
to make sites available at the appropriate

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densities and intensities for inclusion
in the housing element inventory.

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in may of that year the housing element
was certified by the department of housing

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and community development in substantial
compliance with state housing law.

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so the topic that has really brought
this item to your attention tonight is the

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requirement

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that cities maintain an inventory of
available housing element sites at all income

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levels throughout its eight year housing
element planning period and again for this

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city

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it's through 2021 through 2029 and you may
hear us refer to that as no net loss law.

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this is codified in the california
government code section

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65863 and again that code
states that every jurisdiction has

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the obligation to maintain
adequate sites available at all

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times throughout its planning
period for all income levels.

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and if and when the situation
occurs where a project approval

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so project at the local level
is approved that creates a

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deficiency of those available
sites the jurisdiction has by

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statutory requirement 180 days
to make replacement sites available.

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these six six cycle rhna is one thousand
nine hundred and eighty five units and

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they are broken down by income category,
but the relevant income category for

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tonight's presentation revolves around
the requirement that the city maintain

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adequate sites to accommodate nine
hundred and twenty one lower income units.

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in september of 2025
the city has approved for

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housing developments
for a total of nine hundred

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and twenty two residential
units of which forty

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four are suitable for low
very low income units.

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may of this year so in
may of 2026 a development

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application was submitted
for one hundred residential

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units on sites identified
in the city's certified

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housing element, including
five very low income units.

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collectively these approvals and
the application have reduced the

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city's available realistic capacity
to accommodate its rhna and

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therefore the city is subject to the
requirement to maintain adequate

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sites and the no net loss provisions
codified in the government code.

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the state efficiency for
lower income units was

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two hundred and sixty
one units as of february of

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this year and has increased
to four hundred and

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forty three units based
on that pending application.

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so the city's obligation is to
identify additional sites to include

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in its housing element inventory
to essentially replace the capacity

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that has that is no longer
available at those sites where project

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has been approved or the city
has received a pending application.

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and the city conducted two
public study sessions to obtain input

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from the city council and the
public regarding strategies to

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resolve this no net loss issue
and identify replacement sites

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and both of those study sessions
were held in april of this year.

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the first study session at the
beginning of april we discussed no net

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loss and the implications for
noncompliance so all of the penalties

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that a city would be subject to
should it not comply with the no

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net loss requirements as required
by the california government code.

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this study session we reviewed 14
possible candidate sites and we're

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going to call those a through end as
shown on the attached map and city

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council provided the consultant
team and staff with direction on sites

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including the order of preference for
sites to be included in the inventory.

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the council also identified
other opportunities

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that required additional
research for staff and

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the consultant team
to pursue in addition to

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analyzing those previously
identified 14 sites.

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at our second study
session at the end of april we

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discussed the evaluation
of 11 of those candidate

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rezoning sites so from
the first study session 11

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of the 14 identified sites
warranted further study.

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and the evaluation of those 14
sites was conducted by denovo

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planning group and consultation
with staff and we evaluated the

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requirements of site suitability
as required by the government

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code and those are generally
described in four categories.

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the infrastructure available to support
development of residential uses at the site,

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the site availability, meaning that it can
and will be available for redevelopment as

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residential uses during the planning
period, the size of the site and its zoning

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capacity

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so what is its allowable density
intensity and other zoning restrictions or

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allowances.

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four sites of those 14 previously identified
and presented at the first study session

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were

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ultimately identified as potential
sites for rezoning to facilitate the future

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residential

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development and support compliance with the
city's rhna obligations and those sites

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we

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referred to as sites d e and f which are
taken together as a as a group site and site

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n.

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so d e and f located generally at
alicia parkway and the five freeway is a

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total of 5.5 acres and site n on
ridge route drive as a total of 9.5 acres.

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site d e and f would is proposed
to accommodate a range

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of density between 30 and
80 dwelling units an acre for

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a maximum capacity of
308 units. This is currently

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developed as an office park
with relatively high vacancy.

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a improvement to land
value ratio and a suitable

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property owner interest
so the property owner at this

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location has expressed
interest and availability of

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redevelopment of of the site
during the planning period.

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site n composes several different addresses
along red drop drive but it is one parcel

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at 9.5 acres

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also proposed for a density of 30 to 80 to
use an acre with a capacity of 532 units.

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there is some

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vacancy at this site it has a relatively
low improvement to assess value ratio and

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the property

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owner at this location has also expressed
interest in inclusion in the housing

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elements inventory.

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to facilitate making the
sites available which again

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is one of those characteristics
that we must evaluate

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for site suitability. There
are amendments to both the

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general plan and zoning
code and map that must occur.

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site n must be re designated in its
general plan land use element from freeway

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commercial to

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mixed use and the land use element must
also be updated to include some additional

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language which

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further expands upon the amendments included
as part of the prior re zoning effort

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which

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identifies suitable densities allowed
for sites included in the city's housing

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element inventory.

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amendment to the zoning code and
zoning map is also required the zoning

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code would be amended for section
9-11.030 to establish the housing 50

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overlay zone and the housing 80
overlay zone and identify the properties

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to which each of these designation
applies and those were read earlier.

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section 9-11.060 which
would revise the development

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standards for the housing
80 overlay zone to establish a

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permitted residential range
again of that 30 to 80 dwelling

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units per acre and a maximum
building height of 75 feet.

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the zoning map would rezone site n
from freeway commercial to mixed use to

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establish an underlying zoning
designation that permits residential uses.

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section 9-11, the city's remaining on that
rhna for the 6 cycle right now stands at

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599

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lower income housing units.

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as a result of the proposed
general plan and zoning amendments,

230
00:23:06,779 --> 00:23:10,106
the residential development capacity of
the inventory available to accommodate the

231
00:23:10,106 --> 00:23:10,309
lower

232
00:23:10,309 --> 00:23:13,798
income rhna would increase from an existing
capacity of only 156 units to 1091 units.

233
00:23:16,034 --> 00:23:18,137
this additional residential
capacity would first and

234
00:23:18,137 --> 00:23:20,281
foremost resolve the city's
no net loss issues as you

235
00:23:20,294 --> 00:23:22,442
heard earlier. There are
approximately 400 units that

236
00:23:22,442 --> 00:23:24,753
need to be accommodated
within this no net loss solution.

237
00:23:44,959 --> 00:23:48,362
and results in an increase capacity, we
refer to it as a surplus of 492 lower income

238
00:23:48,362 --> 00:23:51,685
units beyond what would be required to
meet the city's unmet lower income rhna to

239
00:23:51,685 --> 00:23:51,887
allow

240
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:55,370
for subsequent use of that surplus against
future project applications that may in and

241
00:23:55,370 --> 00:23:58,719
of themselves result in a no net loss issue
during this eight year planning period.

242
00:24:05,634 --> 00:24:08,457
an environmental determination has
been made that the proposed general

243
00:24:08,457 --> 00:24:11,482
plan amendment zoning text amendment
and zone change are statutorily exempt

244
00:24:11,494 --> 00:24:14,243
from environmental review under
the california environmental quality

245
00:24:14,243 --> 00:24:17,114
act pursuant to the california public
resources resources code section.

246
00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:37,897
21080.085 and specifically this particular
statutory exemption applies because the

247
00:24:37,897 --> 00:24:38,223
proposed

248
00:24:38,223 --> 00:24:41,643
amendments implement the programs of actions
identified in the city's certified 2021

249
00:24:41,643 --> 00:24:41,928
to 2029

250
00:24:41,940 --> 00:24:45,366
housing element, which included a programmatic
commitment that the city would comply

251
00:24:45,366 --> 00:24:45,529
with

252
00:24:45,529 --> 00:24:48,996
the statutory requirements of the no net
loss provisions of the california government

253
00:24:48,996 --> 00:24:49,200
code.

254
00:24:54,683 --> 00:24:57,948
and that brings us to staff's recommendations
to conduct the public hearing, find

255
00:24:57,948 --> 00:25:01,051
that the proposed general plan amendment
zoning text amendment in zone change

256
00:25:01,064 --> 00:25:04,213
are statutorily exempt from ceqa pursuant
to the sections identified and adopt

257
00:25:04,213 --> 00:25:07,483
the resolution and introduced ordinance
for first reading as previously recorded.

258
00:25:13,509 --> 00:25:15,433
so that concludes my
presentation and myself

259
00:25:15,445 --> 00:25:17,559
and staff are available
to answer any questions.

260
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:36,624
all right. That concludes the report.
Yes. Okay. So now agency members

261
00:25:36,624 --> 00:25:38,747
may now ask questions of staff
about the staff presentation and or staff

262
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:40,917
report. It's not a time for discussions
really all about making sure that

263
00:25:40,917 --> 00:25:43,134
we've got the tenants of the report
down and we understand that from staff.

264
00:25:43,159 --> 00:25:48,559
so I will wind it up and we'll
start with dave wheeler. Thank you.

265
00:25:49,308 --> 00:25:52,559
first question is when do the
public comments come in on this?

266
00:25:52,659 --> 00:25:56,559
sorry. When do the public
comments come in on that I?

267
00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:08,237
we haven't opened the public hearing
yet. This is just questions and answers.

268
00:26:08,249 --> 00:26:11,559
okay. First of all, could
you go to page eight please?

269
00:26:22,659 --> 00:26:24,559
okay.

270
00:26:24,733 --> 00:26:27,041
I didn't realize this going
to be brought up again

271
00:26:27,054 --> 00:26:29,559
because they had to be had
a consensus in the meeting.

272
00:26:30,608 --> 00:26:34,500
I didn't realize till monday that n was
put back in there and we had additional

273
00:26:34,511 --> 00:26:38,559
three more things in the agenda tonight
which also is unaware of until two days ago.

274
00:26:46,308 --> 00:26:48,530
my recollection of that n
was not included in the list

275
00:26:48,530 --> 00:26:50,957
and that we had another
alternative which was I thought the

276
00:26:50,969 --> 00:26:53,358
consensus was to use another
area for the north to complete

277
00:26:53,358 --> 00:26:55,788
a an area which already partially
been approved for housing.

278
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:05,814
also, I'm a revelation we
had some context of increasing

279
00:27:05,826 --> 00:27:09,559
some of the densities
to allow to cover the loss.

280
00:27:11,584 --> 00:27:13,526
council member
wheeler, I thank you for the

281
00:27:13,526 --> 00:27:15,650
comments. So I believe
you are referencing site

282
00:27:15,662 --> 00:27:17,520
c, which was adjacent
to existing housing

283
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,559
element sites in the
north laguna hills area.

284
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:26,095
when de novo conducted
their feasibility analysis,

285
00:27:26,095 --> 00:27:27,838
site c didn't quite
have a favorable score in

286
00:27:27,851 --> 00:27:29,831
terms of meeting the
standards that hcd requires to

287
00:27:29,831 --> 00:27:31,734
determine if the site is
acceptable for rezoning.

288
00:27:31,759 --> 00:27:37,559
we went over to the meeting. We
had favorable scores. We met the deficit.

289
00:27:40,659 --> 00:27:44,669
so why, you know, just because one area is
like, you know, he's not quite, you know,

290
00:27:44,681 --> 00:27:48,559
doesn't mean as many characters or the
others, there's a reason not to choose an.

291
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:49,559
so there were seven.

292
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,559
so we have a list of those
other areas that we talked about.

293
00:27:53,858 --> 00:27:54,559
you can pull up that slide.

294
00:27:54,608 --> 00:27:58,683
the issue with site n being
considered that while sites

295
00:27:58,695 --> 00:28:02,559
d, e and f would satisfy,
you know, d and f were fine.

296
00:28:02,858 --> 00:28:06,670
but the issue comes to making sure
that we have the adequate amount of

297
00:28:06,682 --> 00:28:10,559
surplus so that the city doesn't
enter in a state of no net loss again.

298
00:28:10,608 --> 00:28:14,260
so then this other sites, the
existing housing element sites located

299
00:28:14,272 --> 00:28:17,559
in the rezoned area that have
not been developed for housing.

300
00:28:19,784 --> 00:28:23,801
the density was increased to provide an
additional unit count that could be available

301
00:28:23,814 --> 00:28:27,559
for development and then site n and d, e
and f would help also boost the surplus.

302
00:28:27,584 --> 00:28:32,559
so we would have that adequate number
to avoid a no net loss situation again.

303
00:28:41,733 --> 00:28:44,678
yeah, no, I know. I, but where are
the other ones that we talked about in

304
00:28:44,678 --> 00:28:47,622
the meeting that would meet it
without and so I have pulled up a recap as

305
00:28:47,634 --> 00:28:50,583
presented as part of our second study
session which recorded the feedback

306
00:28:50,583 --> 00:28:53,614
that de novo had received as part
of that first discussion of all 14 sites.

307
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:13,899
and we had confirmed that the, what we had
heard at that first study session was in

308
00:29:13,899 --> 00:29:14,704
order of preference,

309
00:29:14,704 --> 00:29:18,084
the sites for evaluation based on the
feedback that we had received were first sites

310
00:29:18,084 --> 00:29:18,527
d, e and f,

311
00:29:18,538 --> 00:29:22,040
second site n, third sites g through m, and
then finally followed by sites a, b and c,

312
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:22,610
which had been

313
00:29:22,610 --> 00:29:25,948
as we previously noted, considered as part
of the city's prior effort to adopt its

314
00:29:25,948 --> 00:29:26,599
housing element.

315
00:29:38,559 --> 00:29:40,533
however, we did reevaluate them and again,
relatively speaking in evaluation of those

316
00:29:40,533 --> 00:29:40,580
14

317
00:29:40,580 --> 00:29:42,437
sites based on the statutory requirements
sites a, b and c were did not meet the

318
00:29:42,437 --> 00:29:42,692
suitability

319
00:29:42,704 --> 00:29:44,545
characteristics in de novo's professional
recommendation and we identified some

320
00:29:44,545 --> 00:29:44,731
concerns

321
00:29:44,731 --> 00:29:46,502
with their suitability and likelihood
of being accepted for inclusion in the

322
00:29:46,502 --> 00:29:46,734
inventory.

323
00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:49,549
and with sites c being
the most challenging

324
00:29:49,561 --> 00:29:52,559
based on the characteristics
we were aware of.

325
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:09,979
now with that said, we did evaluate all
14 of those sites and ultimately brought

326
00:30:09,979 --> 00:30:12,580
forward the recommendation for sites de and
f and site and to meet the immediate needs

327
00:30:12,593 --> 00:30:14,880
of the no net loss issue and provide
some additional opportunity for future

328
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,321
applications to be able to be considered
with an existing surplus of those lower

329
00:30:17,321 --> 00:30:17,535
income.

330
00:30:17,558 --> 00:30:21,619
okay, well, I guess I have to object to
some of the evaluations that it destroys all

331
00:30:21,632 --> 00:30:25,559
the parts of the city and what we'll leave
after the time being, come back to it.

332
00:30:27,709 --> 00:30:34,559
page nine, please, and presentation.

333
00:30:34,909 --> 00:30:37,696
okay, I was going to confess
that I made a mistake that

334
00:30:37,709 --> 00:30:40,559
I got a chart that I'm going
to show in a minute or two.

335
00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:44,531
so in the presentation
that the mayor just read,

336
00:30:44,544 --> 00:30:48,559
it only listed two, three,
five ridge route addresses.

337
00:30:48,808 --> 00:30:51,195
this presentation and
has two, three, five and two,

338
00:30:51,208 --> 00:30:53,559
three, six, which is what
I evaluated in my chart.

339
00:30:53,659 --> 00:30:55,559
I'm showing a couple minutes.

340
00:30:55,709 --> 00:30:58,559
you said an error somewhere?

341
00:31:00,209 --> 00:31:02,759
is the, you know, there's
a thing supposed to

342
00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:05,559
have, I guess it's a well
sent under section 2.1.

343
00:31:05,659 --> 00:31:09,559
is that supposed to be in
there also the two, three, sixes?

344
00:31:16,559 --> 00:31:24,559
>> [inaudible]

345
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:28,909
>> staff is actively
working on identifying a

346
00:31:28,921 --> 00:31:32,559
answer to that question
if you're just about it.

347
00:31:47,559 --> 00:31:55,559
[blank_audio]

348
00:31:55,709 --> 00:31:59,559
yes, two, three, five, six, one
should be included as well.

349
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,616
okay, so that's an
error in the presentation,

350
00:32:01,628 --> 00:32:03,559
part of it should be
two, three, six also.

351
00:32:05,183 --> 00:32:07,559
okay, that's what I thought I
thought something was missing there.

352
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:12,559
okay, we have to rewrite this,
I guess, then, to some degree.

353
00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:15,559
all right.

354
00:32:15,909 --> 00:32:20,559
page 16, I guess, now,
page 16, I have a comment.

355
00:32:21,108 --> 00:32:22,559
I guess a lot of proof
of questions right now.

356
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,559
I'll hold that, I guess.

357
00:32:24,959 --> 00:32:29,559
that's going to be a little
bit of questions, clear questions.

358
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:30,560
yeah, really, yeah.

359
00:32:30,709 --> 00:32:33,559
yeah, 16 is for, we'll
get to a presentation.

360
00:32:34,409 --> 00:32:37,559
okay, page 16, please.

361
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,559
[blank_audio]

362
00:32:41,858 --> 00:32:43,559
16.

363
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:50,559
[blank_audio]

364
00:32:52,358 --> 00:32:54,559
I think, I'm sorry, my mistake, page 12.

365
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:59,559
[blank_audio]

366
00:33:00,509 --> 00:33:06,559
okay, what I want to clarify is with
the presentation that you've given here.

367
00:33:07,409 --> 00:33:13,559
well, let me ask for, what is our
current obligation to fulfill no net loss?

368
00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:27,559
[blank_audio]

369
00:33:27,759 --> 00:33:33,559
the city's obligation to fulfill
no net loss right now is 443 units,

370
00:33:33,709 --> 00:33:36,817
and that is inclusive of
the pending application

371
00:33:36,828 --> 00:33:39,559
that the city received
several months ago.

372
00:33:39,659 --> 00:33:43,559
that's 443, 443 lower-income units.

373
00:33:43,808 --> 00:33:48,559
okay, and the presentation, including
the def and n, how many is that supply?

374
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:52,559
[blank_audio]

375
00:33:52,559 --> 00:34:00,559
def taken together are 308
units, and on its own is 532 units.

376
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:06,559
[blank_audio]

377
00:34:06,784 --> 00:34:12,559
I'm sorry, 840 units for those four sites.

378
00:34:13,235 --> 00:34:14,559
okay.

379
00:34:15,809 --> 00:34:19,632
so in essence, we have
approximately 400 extras

380
00:34:19,643 --> 00:34:23,559
that we don't need to
meet no net loss, correct?

381
00:34:23,561 --> 00:34:25,559
[blank_audio]

382
00:34:26,059 --> 00:34:29,820
in surplus, so there's the rhna
requirement of the remaining units that are

383
00:34:29,833 --> 00:34:33,559
required to satisfy rhna, and then
the surplus just to provide extra padding.

384
00:34:34,260 --> 00:34:36,559
so I'm trying to find
out what I'm trying to clarify.

385
00:34:36,561 --> 00:34:41,559
we need 443, the presentation
has 840 or 440 over approximately.

386
00:34:41,561 --> 00:34:42,559
correct.

387
00:34:42,561 --> 00:34:43,559
okay.

388
00:34:43,561 --> 00:34:45,559
so 402 minute.

389
00:34:45,610 --> 00:34:47,559
okay, that's all my
questions for right now.

390
00:34:47,561 --> 00:34:48,561
thank you.

391
00:34:57,210 --> 00:34:58,559
[blank_audio]

392
00:34:58,561 --> 00:35:03,559
any other questions?

393
00:35:03,561 --> 00:35:08,559
[blank_audio]

394
00:35:10,909 --> 00:35:13,559
I was read, I was
developing a question of my own.

395
00:35:13,561 --> 00:35:16,559
okay, so we'll now go
to jared mathis' questions.

396
00:35:16,561 --> 00:35:20,625
it seems the sites that
have been identified here,

397
00:35:20,637 --> 00:35:24,559
def, and you state that
there's ownership interest.

398
00:35:24,561 --> 00:35:27,559
can you characterize that interest?

399
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,559
that interest in what form
it came and that it's serious.

400
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:38,477
so over the last
year, staff has actually

401
00:35:38,477 --> 00:35:40,438
been contacted by the
property owners of both

402
00:35:40,451 --> 00:35:42,505
sites to see if the city
would be interested in

403
00:35:42,505 --> 00:35:44,559
considered converting
those sites into housing.

404
00:35:47,684 --> 00:35:49,714
so for example, sites def,
I think the property owner

405
00:35:49,714 --> 00:35:51,590
has been experiencing
low vacancy and looking for

406
00:35:51,603 --> 00:35:53,523
the highest and best use
for the property, so they

407
00:35:53,523 --> 00:35:55,635
contacted city staff about
converting those properties.

408
00:35:55,659 --> 00:35:59,146
at the time, this was not a housing
element site, and then currently in

409
00:35:59,159 --> 00:36:02,559
the nmu zoning district, it would
have to be a mixed use development.

410
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:05,647
and then same with the
property that's located off

411
00:36:05,647 --> 00:36:07,693
of ridge route, that
property owner has contacted

412
00:36:07,704 --> 00:36:09,632
us, and felt that the
highest and best use for

413
00:36:09,632 --> 00:36:11,559
their site would be to
convert to residential.

414
00:36:11,561 --> 00:36:15,155
and so knowing that the city was
going into a state of no net loss,

415
00:36:15,168 --> 00:36:18,559
they did offer up their interest
to be included for the reason.

416
00:36:18,561 --> 00:36:20,559
thank you.

417
00:36:24,860 --> 00:36:25,559
okay, we'll now go to joshua sweeney.

418
00:36:25,561 --> 00:36:26,559
thank you, mayor.

419
00:36:26,561 --> 00:36:28,121
I was just had a question for staff.

420
00:36:30,809 --> 00:36:34,512
I wanted to have staff clearly explained
for the residents the difference between

421
00:36:34,523 --> 00:36:36,657
rezoning property for
the state law compliance

422
00:36:36,657 --> 00:36:38,559
and approving actual
development project.

423
00:36:44,559 --> 00:36:48,362
>> thank you, council member
sweeney. So by the city providing sites for

424
00:36:48,373 --> 00:36:52,559
housing, it does not necessarily require
that number of housing units be built.

425
00:36:52,610 --> 00:36:55,842
the city is just required to provide
opportunities for development

426
00:36:55,855 --> 00:36:58,559
if a developer were interested
in rezoning those sites.

427
00:36:59,110 --> 00:37:02,559
so it does not necessarily
mandate and development to occur.

428
00:37:02,635 --> 00:37:04,675
it's just providing an
opportunity for development.

429
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:14,521
thank you so much. And how confident
is staff in the additional roughly 492

430
00:37:14,534 --> 00:37:18,559
unit cushion that will prevent another
no net loss rezoning in the near future?

431
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:26,572
so that's a hard one. To be honest, I
mean to satisfy the rhna requirements,

432
00:37:26,585 --> 00:37:30,559
the way I described it previously is
that it can be very much an uphill battle.

433
00:37:33,559 --> 00:37:37,498
so it depends on the second item this
afternoon is whether or not the provisions

434
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:41,559
could be in place to encourage additional
affordable housing units to be provided.

435
00:37:45,659 --> 00:37:49,552
it's hard because the way the housing element
is structured is that the city can count

436
00:37:49,563 --> 00:37:51,447
basically 100% of the
units to go towards

437
00:37:51,447 --> 00:37:53,559
lower income to satisfy
the rhna requirement.

438
00:37:58,585 --> 00:38:00,800
the reality is in terms of
development feasibility,

439
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:02,581
it just doesn't pencil
out for developers

440
00:38:02,594 --> 00:38:04,555
unless they are able
to access a special vein

441
00:38:04,555 --> 00:38:06,559
of financing for 100%
affordable developments.

442
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:12,635
so it's hard to say how the market's
going to go, but right now we're

443
00:38:12,648 --> 00:38:16,559
hoping that this 492 surplus gets
us through this planning period.

444
00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:26,932
perfect, thank you.
One more just question

445
00:38:26,932 --> 00:38:28,836
for clarification. If we
fail to act within the

446
00:38:28,849 --> 00:38:30,920
statutory timeline, what
are the specific financial

447
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,909
litigation certification
and local control risks?

448
00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:44,623
the worst case scenario is that if
we do not provide adequate inventory

449
00:38:44,623 --> 00:38:46,547
to satisfy the worst case scenarios
that our housing element could be

450
00:38:46,559 --> 00:38:48,546
decertified, we could be susceptible
to builders remedy projects again,

451
00:38:48,546 --> 00:38:50,559
and then also whether or not we
would be open to litigation in lawsuits.

452
00:38:50,561 --> 00:38:54,559
thank you so much. That's all I have.

453
00:38:57,659 --> 00:39:01,496
okay, I'm going to go back to dave,
but I have a couple questions of my own.

454
00:39:01,507 --> 00:39:05,559
first of all, I can't remember which
slide it was, but it doesn't really matter.

455
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,541
your site c was determined as a
difficult one to actually develop, and I

456
00:39:13,554 --> 00:39:17,559
wanted to get, I know we've been
told before, but I've spent a little while.

457
00:39:17,561 --> 00:39:23,559
I'd like to get a little clarification
as to what was difficult about site c.

458
00:39:25,710 --> 00:39:28,851
site c has very
high occupancy.

459
00:39:28,862 --> 00:39:33,559
it is almost fully utilized
as a occupied facility.

460
00:39:38,735 --> 00:39:40,917
it has a very high improvement
to total assessed value

461
00:39:40,917 --> 00:39:43,222
ratio indicating that there
has been significant building

462
00:39:43,233 --> 00:39:45,786
improvements and upgrades.
There is some significant investment

463
00:39:45,786 --> 00:39:47,974
in the physical structure
that exists on the property.

464
00:39:57,559 --> 00:40:00,625
there has been no responsive property
owner interest. The city has conducted

465
00:40:00,625 --> 00:40:03,327
outreach to property owners to
solicit their interest for inclusion

466
00:40:03,340 --> 00:40:06,008
in the housing element periodically
over the past number of years,

467
00:40:06,008 --> 00:40:09,039
including the preparation of the city's
previously adopted housing element.

468
00:40:11,610 --> 00:40:13,835
again, a site c was previously
considered for inclusion

469
00:40:13,835 --> 00:40:15,737
and ultimately not
included in that adopted and

470
00:40:15,748 --> 00:40:18,060
certified element. For the
same challenges we encountered

471
00:40:18,060 --> 00:40:20,289
in this cycle in reevaluating
the site with fresh eyes.

472
00:40:25,735 --> 00:40:27,958
none of those market factors
have changed substantially

473
00:40:27,958 --> 00:40:30,101
since that time. Nor has
the property owner expressed

474
00:40:30,114 --> 00:40:32,263
any new interest in
redevelopment site, which was not

475
00:40:32,263 --> 00:40:34,614
previously available as part
of that prior element review.

476
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,263
so with those characteristics,
we did not feel that it felt it

477
00:40:46,263 --> 00:40:48,847
met the requirements that the
city had outlined in its inventory

478
00:40:48,860 --> 00:40:51,167
in specific improvement to
land value ratios in occupancy

479
00:40:51,167 --> 00:40:53,880
requirements and particularly with
the support of a property owner.

480
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:58,547
thank you. And I mean, since
we're looking at this in our rhna

481
00:40:58,559 --> 00:41:02,559
cycle, right now it goes all the
way through what 2029 correct.

482
00:41:10,659 --> 00:41:14,644
and if we were to accept these proposals,
half the polls, then we're going to end up

483
00:41:14,657 --> 00:41:18,559
with a residual of something. Did I hear
that right by 432 or something like that?

484
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:30,696
400.400. That, you know,
in other words, the idea

485
00:41:30,696 --> 00:41:32,682
I assume is so that we
don't need to be back here

486
00:41:32,695 --> 00:41:34,729
again that we will cover
our nut and then actually

487
00:41:34,729 --> 00:41:36,559
have a little bit of a
surplus. Is that true?

488
00:41:36,909 --> 00:41:44,559
that is the intent. Okay.
And my last question has to do with site f.

489
00:41:47,809 --> 00:41:51,702
I know the site, well, actually
site d was where the old city hall

490
00:41:51,713 --> 00:41:55,559
was when we used to rent space
and that goes back about 25 years.

491
00:41:56,110 --> 00:42:01,559
but so I know the office buildings that
are concerned and all the rest of that.

492
00:42:08,610 --> 00:42:10,637
I'm a little, I'm a
little concerned so it's

493
00:42:10,637 --> 00:42:12,617
a question though.
Site f actually backs up

494
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:16,559
to residential. And when we're talking about
3280, 80 is a five or six story building.

495
00:42:30,610 --> 00:42:33,352
and I'm, you know, here you
have single family. It looks like single

496
00:42:33,352 --> 00:42:36,217
family residential, hard for me to
read the name of the street from the

497
00:42:36,228 --> 00:42:39,219
exhibit here. But you know what
I'm talking about in site f is, it doesn't

498
00:42:39,219 --> 00:42:42,170
really say you're giving, you know,
the overall acreage for site d and f.

499
00:42:43,710 --> 00:42:47,597
and actually in many respects site d at
e right next to the freeway like that can

500
00:42:47,610 --> 00:42:51,559
handle a building in my opinion. But the
point is that I'm wondering about site f.

501
00:42:59,559 --> 00:43:03,523
so the question is, what's the size of site
f? And what if we were to, even if we were

502
00:43:03,536 --> 00:43:05,501
to rezone it, why,
why, what if we were to

503
00:43:05,501 --> 00:43:07,559
just rezone f to 30
instead of 80, 30 to 80.

504
00:43:07,710 --> 00:43:11,583
so that you don't have a
six story building hanging

505
00:43:11,596 --> 00:43:15,559
over a lot of single family
homes on the other side.

506
00:43:19,610 --> 00:43:23,650
and I don't have a sense of that. I'm
asking a question because I don't, these

507
00:43:23,661 --> 00:43:27,559
are all just, you know, piled together.
So for what a total of five points.

508
00:43:46,159 --> 00:43:48,346
no, I mean, if I have 5.5 acres
in three hundred eight units,

509
00:43:48,346 --> 00:43:50,389
can you give me a little
clarification of what, what are,

510
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,701
what are our choices, but, you
know, what is the range of things

511
00:43:52,701 --> 00:43:54,786
that site f if wasn't incorporated
in all the whole thing.

512
00:43:54,809 --> 00:43:58,510
so site f is approximately
1.3 acres and would

513
00:43:58,523 --> 00:44:02,559
yield about 71 units at
the highest density level.

514
00:44:02,684 --> 00:44:06,523
so the question comes down to,
I mean, obviously it's the council's

515
00:44:06,536 --> 00:44:10,559
discretion if they want to do it at
a lower density for that location.

516
00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:20,023
but site f was brought together
in conjunction from the property

517
00:44:20,023 --> 00:44:21,925
owner was sites dnf, denf from
their assessment of what they consider

518
00:44:21,936 --> 00:44:23,624
they had done some preliminary
assessments about what type of

519
00:44:23,624 --> 00:44:25,559
building size could go in, taking
an account set backs and everything.

520
00:44:25,561 --> 00:44:29,559
so their proposal was to include site f.

521
00:44:43,809 --> 00:44:46,012
so if we would still maintain a
surplus, if this was downgraded to a

522
00:44:46,012 --> 00:44:48,344
lower density, instead of possibly
site to 30 dwelling because paragraph

523
00:44:48,356 --> 00:44:50,629
may be delivered this housing
overlay at h50, just to make consistency

524
00:44:50,629 --> 00:44:52,936
and not have to revise and create a
whole new housing overlay category.

525
00:44:52,960 --> 00:45:00,559
okay. So based on, you said,
did you say 1.3 acres of site f?

526
00:45:00,561 --> 00:45:01,559
okay.

527
00:45:01,561 --> 00:45:02,559
can we bring that slide up?

528
00:45:02,561 --> 00:45:04,559
it would be nice to look at that page.

529
00:45:05,184 --> 00:45:06,559
I think we could find it.

530
00:45:06,934 --> 00:45:10,481
well, yeah, but if
you're talking about 30

531
00:45:10,492 --> 00:45:14,559
units in acre, then
you're really talking about,

532
00:45:14,610 --> 00:45:18,572
we're really talking about
40 or 50 units if we were to

533
00:45:18,585 --> 00:45:22,559
zone it down at a lower
level to like 30 instead of 80.

534
00:45:23,309 --> 00:45:25,943
well, and keep in mind that the
object design standards would

535
00:45:25,956 --> 00:45:28,559
still play into where there
would be a stepping requirement.

536
00:45:28,585 --> 00:45:32,097
so it necessarily would
be built all the way to

537
00:45:32,110 --> 00:45:35,559
the maximum 75 feet
up into the property line.

538
00:45:35,610 --> 00:45:37,882
so the object design
standards does require that

539
00:45:37,893 --> 00:45:40,559
stepping to offset and
mitigate the height of the issue.

540
00:45:50,809 --> 00:45:54,695
okay. Okay. I'm just trying to get my arms
around what the impact would be if to that

541
00:45:54,706 --> 00:45:58,559
400 residual that we have if we didn't take
site f all the way up to 80 potentially.

542
00:45:58,561 --> 00:45:59,559
that's all.

543
00:45:59,561 --> 00:46:02,559
so I think you pretty will
have gotten me in the ballpark.

544
00:46:02,561 --> 00:46:08,559
I think about things in terms of the fabric
of the community and not just numbers.

545
00:46:08,561 --> 00:46:11,559
so, thank you.

546
00:46:11,561 --> 00:46:17,559
and so we are back to dave
if you had some questions.

547
00:46:17,561 --> 00:46:18,559
not anymore.

548
00:46:18,561 --> 00:46:19,561
okay.

549
00:46:20,110 --> 00:46:22,559
you're still, oh, he still
has his line on pencil.

550
00:46:22,561 --> 00:46:23,561
okay.

551
00:46:27,559 --> 00:46:31,833
so with that, we have
exhausted our questions

552
00:46:31,844 --> 00:46:35,559
from the staff from
the agency members.

553
00:46:35,561 --> 00:46:42,559
and so what I'm going to do
right now is open the public hearing.

554
00:46:42,561 --> 00:46:48,559
and announce the
time again for that is 442.

555
00:46:49,010 --> 00:46:54,559
the purpose of this public hearing is
to solicit public testimony and input.

556
00:46:54,561 --> 00:46:57,778
there will be no
discussion, no debate, no

557
00:46:57,791 --> 00:47:01,559
personal opinions of
agency members at this time.

558
00:47:01,860 --> 00:47:04,603
again, if you are
participating remotely and

559
00:47:04,615 --> 00:47:09,559
wish to speak regarding this item on
the phone, dial star 9 on the telephone.

560
00:47:09,860 --> 00:47:13,280
now to raise your hand to
indicate you wish to speak, you will

561
00:47:13,293 --> 00:47:16,559
be identified by the last four
digits of your phone number.

562
00:47:17,210 --> 00:47:23,559
and when you have been recognized
to speak, dial star 6 to unmute.

563
00:47:26,059 --> 00:47:31,559
and so we'll get started with that.

564
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:41,559
and I'm going to move to our city clerk
and ask for public speakers in this order.

565
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:46,559
first in favor of what we're
talking about in the matter.

566
00:47:46,610 --> 00:47:52,559
and then secondly in person
against the matter, third online remote.

567
00:47:52,610 --> 00:47:56,742
and with that, the city clerk
will read the names of comments

568
00:47:56,753 --> 00:48:00,559
that were then submitted
online, which were significant.

569
00:48:00,809 --> 00:48:06,559
so I will now open up to you, joshua.

570
00:48:07,110 --> 00:48:08,559
yes, thank you, mr. Mayor.

571
00:48:11,559 --> 00:48:19,559
the first card we have is
rudy with no last name.

572
00:48:21,559 --> 00:48:25,626
thank you for your continued
work towards addressing

573
00:48:25,637 --> 00:48:29,559
affordability and compliance
with housing element.

574
00:48:29,561 --> 00:48:31,559
my name is rudy barbosa.

575
00:48:31,610 --> 00:48:34,559
I speak on behalf of the
kennedy commission.

576
00:48:36,559 --> 00:48:40,409
for the no net loss overlay, we
are asking that the city look into the

577
00:48:40,422 --> 00:48:44,559
possibility of adding a 20% affordability
requirement in the overlay zones.

578
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:48,469
first a question whether this
site identification would have a

579
00:48:48,481 --> 00:48:52,559
higher confidence in the city
addressing no net loss in the future.

580
00:48:57,659 --> 00:48:59,505
I think if the support
ability requirement is

581
00:48:59,505 --> 00:49:01,679
introduced into the overlays
and the confidence would

582
00:49:01,690 --> 00:49:03,378
go up because you
would be addressing the

583
00:49:03,378 --> 00:49:05,559
affordability at the lower
rhna and come categories.

584
00:49:07,559 --> 00:49:15,559
I also had a question in regards
to the legality of having overlays.

585
00:49:17,559 --> 00:49:21,605
the use of overlays was found out
of compliance if the base zoning did

586
00:49:21,617 --> 00:49:25,559
not allow for the density and the
residential use of those overlays.

587
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:35,126
we also had a question in the
site identified adfn for the resulting

588
00:49:35,137 --> 00:49:39,559
classification, especially site and it said
it would be classified as mxu mixed use.

589
00:49:45,559 --> 00:49:49,699
but we are wondering if that should
be labeled as neighborhood mixed

590
00:49:49,711 --> 00:49:53,559
use in the general plan draft
july 23, 2026 general plan draft.

591
00:49:53,561 --> 00:49:56,516
it says that mxu does
not allow for residential

592
00:49:56,527 --> 00:49:59,559
development whereas
neighborhood mixed use does.

593
00:49:59,561 --> 00:50:03,664
so we are wondering if
the city can add clarification

594
00:50:03,675 --> 00:50:07,559
on to those land use
designations under table ou1.

595
00:50:07,561 --> 00:50:12,559
we also ask that the city has
more transparency in its website use.

596
00:50:19,559 --> 00:50:21,623
I believe there was mailer
sent out with these maps

597
00:50:21,623 --> 00:50:23,847
and information for residents
to look at however the no

598
00:50:23,860 --> 00:50:26,050
net loss site on the city
website has not been updated

599
00:50:26,050 --> 00:50:28,119
with the presentations,
maps and other information.

600
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,748
and I think the use of
this web page could be

601
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,559
better if it is uploaded
on to that one site.

602
00:50:43,561 --> 00:50:46,559
thank you.

603
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:54,596
and I'm going to turn to
jennifer and because a number

604
00:50:54,596 --> 00:50:56,518
of things were said here and
if you have no comment and

605
00:50:56,530 --> 00:50:58,422
we'll just take it as a public
comment, but if there's

606
00:50:58,422 --> 00:51:00,559
something that you want to
respond to, then please feel free.

607
00:51:00,561 --> 00:51:03,559
well, if you would like me to
address some of the comments.

608
00:51:03,561 --> 00:51:07,581
so with the no net loss website,
my principal planner has just

609
00:51:07,592 --> 00:51:11,559
pulled it up and the staff
report and everything is on there.

610
00:51:15,860 --> 00:51:19,675
so I'm not sure what items they were necessarily
looking for but the ordinance and the

611
00:51:19,686 --> 00:51:21,713
maps and the changes
to the general plan land

612
00:51:21,713 --> 00:51:23,559
use element are
uploaded on that website.

613
00:51:23,561 --> 00:51:26,447
in terms of the legality
of the overlay, so

614
00:51:26,458 --> 00:51:29,559
the mx use owning
district does allow housing.

615
00:51:29,561 --> 00:51:32,713
the nmu is actually
more restricted to the point

616
00:51:32,724 --> 00:51:35,559
where it has to be a
mixed use development.

617
00:51:35,561 --> 00:51:38,521
we have changed that in
the code to allow the sites that

618
00:51:38,532 --> 00:51:41,559
qualify under the housing
overlay to be 100% residential.

619
00:51:42,835 --> 00:51:46,576
but the mxu does allow residential
at 20 dwelling units per acre, but

620
00:51:46,588 --> 00:51:50,559
with the overlay, it is allowed to
go up to the specific identities here.

621
00:51:55,559 --> 00:51:57,611
as well as for the affordable
housing of 20% on these

622
00:51:57,611 --> 00:51:59,585
overlay sites, anything
over 15% generally requires

623
00:51:59,597 --> 00:52:01,540
a more in depth feasibility
analysis of whether or

624
00:52:01,540 --> 00:52:03,559
not 20% would actually
have an access to be applied.

625
00:52:03,561 --> 00:52:06,559
so that would require some further study.

626
00:52:06,561 --> 00:52:07,561
>> thank you.

627
00:52:07,710 --> 00:52:09,559
>> thank you for that clarification.

628
00:52:09,610 --> 00:52:13,559
next speaker.

629
00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:22,559
>> we have rona henry.

630
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:30,686
I'm rona henry, chair of welcoming
neighbors home, our volunteer advocates

631
00:52:30,699 --> 00:52:34,559
advocate for affordable housing,
and we have members in laguna hills.

632
00:52:36,559 --> 00:52:40,405
I always find zoning to be somewhat of
a technical issue, so I was glad when I was

633
00:52:40,418 --> 00:52:42,465
copied on a public
comment that the kennedy

634
00:52:42,465 --> 00:52:44,559
commission sent to
you regarding this issue.

635
00:52:44,561 --> 00:52:47,876
and I think they raised some
important concerns, including

636
00:52:47,887 --> 00:52:51,559
legal questions, and I urge you
to look at those very carefully.

637
00:53:00,635 --> 00:53:02,698
my main concern is that the city is
proposing to allow high density housing,

638
00:53:02,698 --> 00:53:04,543
which would be by right, and thus
increase the value of the proposed

639
00:53:04,556 --> 00:53:06,626
sites without having any really strong
program to ensure that the affordable

640
00:53:06,626 --> 00:53:08,559
housing for lower income households
is included in the new development.

641
00:53:08,561 --> 00:53:11,307
we're concerned that
the city may be giving up

642
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,559
leverage to require affordable
housing at these sites.

643
00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:24,719
in addition, I was also a little bit unclear
about whether or not what the additional

644
00:53:24,731 --> 00:53:28,559
housing capacity would be, because
you seem to be putting a range of 30 to 80.

645
00:53:28,659 --> 00:53:33,559
and I wasn't sure how
realistic the capacity really was.

646
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:41,668
finally, we do request the city rezone more
suitable sites for housing in the context

647
00:53:41,681 --> 00:53:45,559
of we question how healthy it is to locate
housing right next to a busy freeway.

648
00:53:45,561 --> 00:53:47,992
ideally, the housing
sites should be located

649
00:53:48,003 --> 00:53:50,559
in your shopping,
schools, services, and jobs.

650
00:53:50,561 --> 00:53:53,021
bottom line, I think
we need a little bit more

651
00:53:53,032 --> 00:53:55,559
consideration on this.
Thank you for your time.

652
00:53:57,860 --> 00:54:03,559
you have a question for you.

653
00:54:04,409 --> 00:54:06,559
councilman wheeler is going to.

654
00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:08,849
a clarification question on
some of the things you said.

655
00:54:09,059 --> 00:54:11,559
hello, you've been here many times.

656
00:54:11,561 --> 00:54:16,559
okay, you said you should
have more appropriate places.

657
00:54:16,561 --> 00:54:18,559
where would you put it?

658
00:54:22,559 --> 00:54:26,295
well, I recall that the owner
of the molten shopping

659
00:54:26,306 --> 00:54:30,559
center wanted to have his
site on the housing element site.

660
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:32,876
and so that would have
been a great place because

661
00:54:32,876 --> 00:54:34,690
it's right near shopping
and it would have

662
00:54:34,702 --> 00:54:36,739
been, I think they wanted
mixed use and I think

663
00:54:36,739 --> 00:54:38,559
that could have been
mutually reinforcing.

664
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:44,695
another site I'm blanking on the
one. It's across where it's in laguna

665
00:54:44,708 --> 00:54:48,559
hills, but it's across from where
bed bath and beyond used to be.

666
00:54:48,659 --> 00:54:54,559
where it costs plus importers.
What's that big road? Soft of la paz.

667
00:54:57,559 --> 00:54:59,600
there's office buildings
there. Yeah, so it

668
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,735
was pointed out there's
some office buildings

669
00:55:01,748 --> 00:55:05,559
there and that is a little close to the
freeway, so that's not my favorite place.

670
00:55:05,710 --> 00:55:08,559
but the really great place would
have been the molten shopping center.

671
00:55:08,909 --> 00:55:12,030
yeah, the last thing you might just
write next three way, the same as the eea.

672
00:55:12,610 --> 00:55:16,559
okay. Yeah, that's not my most favorite.
My most favorite is the molten.

673
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,186
I'm not sure where you're talking about.
Where the dmv used to be?

674
00:55:21,210 --> 00:55:22,623
there's a chinese
restaurant there.

675
00:55:22,635 --> 00:55:24,769
okay, no, I know what
you're talking about now, then.

676
00:55:25,110 --> 00:55:30,559
yeah, beautiful site. Thank you.
Okay, any other questions? No, thank you.

677
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:42,559
next speaker. Yes, we have anna gromis.

678
00:55:44,260 --> 00:55:45,994
welcome anna. Hi, thank
you so much for having me.

679
00:55:46,007 --> 00:55:47,686
just a couple of comments
that I wanted to make.

680
00:55:47,710 --> 00:55:51,650
I understand that you guys assess
these sites and came to the conclusion

681
00:55:51,661 --> 00:55:55,559
that 30 to 80 dwelling units to the
acre would be the most appropriate.

682
00:55:55,561 --> 00:55:59,516
but if you really want to do
any kind of for sale product, 30 to

683
00:55:59,528 --> 00:56:03,559
the acre unfortunately does not
pencil for any of our developers.

684
00:56:03,610 --> 00:56:07,072
we're looking more closer
to 20 to the acre for single

685
00:56:07,085 --> 00:56:10,559
family town homes or any
kind of for sale residential.

686
00:56:10,659 --> 00:56:14,559
if that's something that you're
interested in, happy to discuss it further.

687
00:56:14,561 --> 00:56:18,614
but as we've stated previously
to the city and to staff, when

688
00:56:18,626 --> 00:56:22,559
you get down to 30 to the
acre, there's just no open space.

689
00:56:22,561 --> 00:56:25,351
there's parking restrictions.
You basically have a

690
00:56:25,364 --> 00:56:28,559
product that is difficult
to build and difficult to sell.

691
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:36,811
so our recommendation and our
ask would be that you amend the

692
00:56:36,822 --> 00:56:40,559
span to be 20 to 80 or more
to the acre, please. Thank you.

693
00:56:40,561 --> 00:56:44,559
questions? Thank you very much. Next.

694
00:56:45,559 --> 00:56:53,559
we have caesar covarubius.

695
00:56:54,010 --> 00:56:55,559
welcome. Thank you.

696
00:56:56,260 --> 00:56:58,559
good evening, mayor council members.

697
00:56:58,809 --> 00:57:01,610
sessercovarubius, I'm the executive
director of the county commission.

698
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:08,478
just wanted to provide a few
additional comments based on

699
00:57:08,490 --> 00:57:12,559
the presentation of my partners
and some of our colleagues.

700
00:57:18,559 --> 00:57:20,734
I think the main distinction
here that we're trying to draw

701
00:57:20,734 --> 00:57:22,981
is that we're here today because
you have an approved housing

702
00:57:22,994 --> 00:57:25,247
element and that now has to be
redone because we don't have a

703
00:57:25,247 --> 00:57:27,686
policy or program that it's going
to encourage affordable housing.

704
00:57:27,710 --> 00:57:31,590
so if we do this development,
the way that developments were

705
00:57:31,601 --> 00:57:35,559
done in the past, we will get
the same result on these sites.

706
00:57:41,559 --> 00:57:43,415
we get market rate
development that's not going to

707
00:57:43,415 --> 00:57:45,382
have been the affordable.
And I think there's a clear

708
00:57:45,393 --> 00:57:47,291
distinction here where
in the statute that is being

709
00:57:47,291 --> 00:57:49,559
referenced to be able to create
these sites to have capacity.

710
00:57:49,561 --> 00:57:53,153
you do have the ability
to provide 20% of the units

711
00:57:53,166 --> 00:57:56,559
to be affordable if you
have a by right process.

712
00:58:01,710 --> 00:58:03,988
particular proposal doesn't
distinguish a by right process

713
00:58:03,988 --> 00:58:06,030
that will create 20%
affordable versus a traditional

714
00:58:06,043 --> 00:58:07,935
market rate approach
that is just going to be by

715
00:58:07,935 --> 00:58:09,985
right where you're giving
away all these incentives.

716
00:58:10,010 --> 00:58:13,213
so the main point here is
we're missing the opportunity

717
00:58:13,226 --> 00:58:16,559
to capture what we're giving
to a developer in this case.

718
00:58:20,559 --> 00:58:22,784
we're asking a developer,
"what do you want to do?" you

719
00:58:22,784 --> 00:58:24,887
have a developer who just
came up and said, "hey, if

720
00:58:24,898 --> 00:58:27,129
you give us 20% of the
county, 20 units to the acre, we

721
00:58:27,129 --> 00:58:29,320
can build market rate housing
that is home ownership."

722
00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:37,748
but none of it will be
affordable, right? At 80 units of

723
00:58:37,748 --> 00:58:39,938
acre, 50 units to the acre,
you're going to get the same

724
00:58:39,949 --> 00:58:42,301
result with market rate developers
who are going to give you

725
00:58:42,301 --> 00:58:44,536
the higher density developments
but all that market rate.

726
00:58:44,559 --> 00:58:48,452
and you'll be back here in a
couple of years asking your staff

727
00:58:48,465 --> 00:58:52,559
to reassign sites and find sites
to be able to accommodate those.

728
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:06,739
so I think there is an opportunity to look
at this clearly and be able to distinguish

729
00:59:06,739 --> 00:59:06,816
how

730
00:59:06,816 --> 00:59:08,919
do we comply with the law, how do we make
sure that we also are providing the best

731
00:59:08,919 --> 00:59:09,099
benefit

732
00:59:09,110 --> 00:59:11,208
for your community where you're identifying
sites and you're getting something and

733
00:59:11,208 --> 00:59:11,361
return

734
00:59:11,361 --> 00:59:13,536
and that being in the affordability for the
residents that live and work in the city.

735
00:59:13,559 --> 00:59:14,559
okay, thank you.

736
00:59:14,561 --> 00:59:15,559
any questions?

737
00:59:15,561 --> 00:59:18,559
dave, you have your light on?

738
00:59:18,561 --> 00:59:20,559
I have a question?

739
00:59:20,561 --> 00:59:21,559
I'm thinking.

740
00:59:21,561 --> 00:59:23,559
I'm not sure.

741
00:59:23,561 --> 00:59:24,559
no.

742
00:59:24,561 --> 00:59:25,561
okay.

743
00:59:25,710 --> 00:59:27,559
next speaker.

744
00:59:28,510 --> 00:59:29,559
thank you for your comments.

745
00:59:29,561 --> 00:59:32,559
that is all the speaker
comments cards I have.

746
00:59:32,561 --> 00:59:33,561
all of them.

747
00:59:33,659 --> 00:59:34,559
for this item.

748
00:59:34,561 --> 00:59:35,559
yes.

749
00:59:35,561 --> 00:59:36,561
okay.

750
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:38,559
and then we can go the other direction.

751
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,559
here you have any -- I'm sorry?

752
00:59:43,159 --> 00:59:45,559
we're on still 2.1.

753
00:59:52,260 --> 00:59:53,559
that is all I have for 2.1.

754
00:59:53,561 --> 01:00:00,559
okay.

755
01:00:01,110 --> 01:00:07,559
and do we have any that
are online or by telephone?

756
01:00:07,561 --> 01:00:09,559
can you go ahead and announce for a minute?

757
01:00:09,561 --> 01:00:10,561
yes.

758
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:18,559
mr. Mayor, can I make a brief announcement?

759
01:00:18,561 --> 01:00:19,559
yes.

760
01:00:19,561 --> 01:00:20,559
may.

761
01:00:20,561 --> 01:00:22,208
council member
peehold, peehold has asked

762
01:00:22,219 --> 01:00:24,001
to join the meeting
remotely for just cause.

763
01:00:24,610 --> 01:00:26,559
she is a child caregiving issue.

764
01:00:27,059 --> 01:00:31,559
so we have been able to have council
member peehold on through audio and video.

765
01:00:31,561 --> 01:00:35,016
council member peehold, is
there anyone with you in the

766
01:00:35,027 --> 01:00:42,559
room over 18 and if so, can you please state
the general nature of your relationship?

767
01:00:42,610 --> 01:00:44,559
no one over 18.

768
01:00:44,860 --> 01:00:47,559
no one is here.

769
01:00:47,561 --> 01:00:48,559
thank you.

770
01:00:48,561 --> 01:00:52,559
except for me.

771
01:00:52,561 --> 01:00:54,559
I have no one online wishing to speak.

772
01:00:54,561 --> 01:00:55,559
okay.

773
01:00:55,561 --> 01:00:56,559
and no one.

774
01:00:56,561 --> 01:00:57,559
okay.

775
01:00:57,561 --> 01:00:58,760
so we're done public speakers.

776
01:00:58,909 --> 01:01:01,559
okay.

777
01:01:01,610 --> 01:01:02,559
okay.

778
01:01:02,561 --> 01:01:03,559
further time being yes.

779
01:01:03,561 --> 01:01:04,559
all right.

780
01:01:04,561 --> 01:01:05,559
so.

781
01:01:05,561 --> 01:01:06,559
I will call.

782
01:01:06,561 --> 01:01:07,561
I'm sorry.

783
01:01:07,610 --> 01:01:09,559
I'll be read the names
that were submitted for this.

784
01:01:09,561 --> 01:01:10,561
go ahead.

785
01:01:11,059 --> 01:01:12,559
I'm in favor.

786
01:01:12,561 --> 01:01:14,559
I have heidi prescott.

787
01:01:14,561 --> 01:01:15,561
oppose.

788
01:01:15,610 --> 01:01:16,610
marcelo lawson.

789
01:01:16,909 --> 01:01:18,559
and the neutral is caesar.

790
01:01:18,659 --> 01:01:19,559
coperubius.

791
01:01:19,610 --> 01:01:20,559
ed.

792
01:01:20,561 --> 01:01:21,559
and renee oaks.

793
01:01:21,561 --> 01:01:22,559
and run a henry.

794
01:01:22,561 --> 01:01:23,559
okay.

795
01:01:23,561 --> 01:01:24,559
thank you.

796
01:01:24,561 --> 01:01:25,561
all right.

797
01:01:26,559 --> 01:01:30,009
so we have any other
final questions of staff

798
01:01:30,021 --> 01:01:34,610
or any other members of the
public from agency members.

799
01:01:35,434 --> 01:01:36,559
don't see that.

800
01:01:37,110 --> 01:01:40,429
and so with that, I'm
going to close the public

801
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:45,559
hearing and announce that
the public hearing is closed now.

802
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:50,784
so we're going to move
into the city council

803
01:01:50,797 --> 01:01:55,561
planning agency and
deliberations of this particular item.

804
01:01:56,710 --> 01:02:00,559
and I will start with -- well, I don't --
colin, did you want to speak to this?

805
01:02:02,210 --> 01:02:03,559
or did you -- you have your light on?

806
01:02:03,561 --> 01:02:04,559
oh, my apologies.

807
01:02:04,561 --> 01:02:05,559
okay.

808
01:02:05,561 --> 01:02:06,559
all right.

809
01:02:06,561 --> 01:02:07,559
dave.

810
01:02:07,561 --> 01:02:08,559
okay.

811
01:02:08,561 --> 01:02:15,559
robert, would you bring up the
first part of the usb drive I gave you?

812
01:02:15,561 --> 01:02:17,559
I have a few comments.

813
01:02:17,561 --> 01:02:21,559
I'll start with the -- should you
go to -- in the next page, please?

814
01:02:21,561 --> 01:02:22,559
okay.

815
01:02:22,561 --> 01:02:23,561
hold there.

816
01:02:24,059 --> 01:02:27,052
I did a considerable
amount of work on studying

817
01:02:27,065 --> 01:02:29,559
this issue to try to
present some basic

818
01:02:29,561 --> 01:02:32,559
facts and thanks for
the council to consider.

819
01:02:32,561 --> 01:02:33,559
no.

820
01:02:33,561 --> 01:02:35,559
please keep it on.

821
01:02:35,561 --> 01:02:36,559
okay.

822
01:02:36,561 --> 01:02:41,559
would you go to robert?

823
01:02:41,561 --> 01:02:42,559
okay.

824
01:02:42,561 --> 01:02:45,559
next page, please.

825
01:02:48,659 --> 01:02:49,559
okay.

826
01:02:49,561 --> 01:02:53,559
I just wanted to relate to
everybody, the council especially.

827
01:02:53,561 --> 01:02:55,559
what the current situation is.

828
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,027
I spent considerable
time going over every

829
01:02:59,039 --> 01:03:02,559
parcel in the city that is
now zoned commercial.

830
01:03:02,659 --> 01:03:04,559
the whole city has
just sort of two million.

831
01:03:04,561 --> 01:03:07,559
I'm sorry, these are --
the figures are not easy.

832
01:03:08,110 --> 01:03:10,559
they're not in the square
miles or square feet.

833
01:03:10,561 --> 01:03:12,559
the program I had was meters, though.

834
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:15,559
it's the relative number I think
of the most important thing.

835
01:03:15,561 --> 01:03:19,559
the -- I mean, it's almost two
million square meters of commercial.

836
01:03:19,635 --> 01:03:22,559
of that, the north has about a million.

837
01:03:23,010 --> 01:03:25,559
el toro area, 400,000.

838
01:03:25,735 --> 01:03:27,559
alicia area, 142.

839
01:03:27,809 --> 01:03:29,559
la paz, about 200.

840
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:31,565
and when I call strip
malls, little areas of

841
01:03:31,577 --> 01:03:33,559
the city is about five of
them that have things.

842
01:03:33,561 --> 01:03:40,559
it's like the ralph shopping center
where the pancake house is another one.

843
01:03:40,809 --> 01:03:45,559
we're smart finals is
another one of those areas.

844
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:50,559
and I want to point the -- the
approved for rina or hed or hcd or hdl.

845
01:03:50,561 --> 01:03:52,559
I combined the data.

846
01:03:59,635 --> 01:04:03,405
the whole city has already
approved 400,000 square meters to be

847
01:04:03,416 --> 01:04:07,559
converted basically from commercial
or retail over two allow housing.

848
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:12,559
the north, 116, that's
basically the milk creek project.

849
01:04:12,561 --> 01:04:15,818
el toro, that's the mall
plus little triangle area

850
01:04:15,831 --> 01:04:19,559
that's over across the street
from mall near the freeway.

851
01:04:19,561 --> 01:04:20,561
nothing on alicia.

852
01:04:21,059 --> 01:04:26,559
la paz is the -- is the la
paz village there, 17,000.

853
01:04:29,210 --> 01:04:32,798
for the entire city, if
you look, already we have

854
01:04:32,811 --> 01:04:36,559
lost 27 -- I'm sorry, 20.7%
of our commercial area.

855
01:04:37,110 --> 01:04:39,559
that's retail or off-spoting,
that type of thing.

856
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,559
in the north, that's the real creek.

857
01:04:41,561 --> 01:04:43,559
they took 10% of that area.

858
01:04:44,159 --> 01:04:46,583
the el toro, where the
mall is, it's taken 67%

859
01:04:46,594 --> 01:04:49,559
two-thirds of that entire
area, which I want to comment.

860
01:04:49,561 --> 01:04:53,559
that is the most valuable area
in the whole city for commercial.

861
01:04:53,561 --> 01:04:57,559
and we've given away
already two-thirds of it.

862
01:04:57,710 --> 01:05:01,559
la paz is around, you
know, little, it's 10%.

863
01:05:01,809 --> 01:05:04,103
I just want to caution
me, the last gentleman that

864
01:05:04,114 --> 01:05:06,559
spoke with the kennedy
commission is kind of correct.

865
01:05:06,835 --> 01:05:09,559
we're going to keep getting the same
results, but keep doing the same thing.

866
01:05:09,561 --> 01:05:12,280
we keep, you know,
sacrificing these properties

867
01:05:12,293 --> 01:05:14,559
and reducing our
retail and commercial.

868
01:05:15,059 --> 01:05:17,559
and we're getting, you
know, we're not meeting rhna.

869
01:05:17,561 --> 01:05:19,429
all we're doing is
just getting more and

870
01:05:19,442 --> 01:05:21,559
more, you know, market
rate housing in there.

871
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,559
I'm told that the market rate housing
is almost getting saturated now.

872
01:05:24,561 --> 01:05:26,559
I'm not sure if that's true or not.

873
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:31,559
but look, we've already
lost 20% of what we had.

874
01:05:32,010 --> 01:05:34,559
we haven't got that much
left if we can't go at this rate.

875
01:05:34,610 --> 01:05:36,559
we're not gaining anything.

876
01:05:36,561 --> 01:05:40,559
okay, now let's specifically
come with respect to property n.

877
01:05:40,760 --> 01:05:42,559
we're up next page, please.

878
01:05:43,585 --> 01:05:47,664
I thought I made a mistake
when I saw the presentation that

879
01:05:47,675 --> 01:05:51,559
mayor read about two, three,
five ridge route addresses.

880
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:53,559
I'd done two, three,
five, and two, three, six.

881
01:05:53,561 --> 01:05:55,570
I was glad to see that
it was an error and the

882
01:05:55,581 --> 01:05:57,559
thing that I didn't
include the correct ones.

883
01:05:57,561 --> 01:06:01,559
this area, as you can
see, this is a 25, it's 24.

884
01:06:01,561 --> 01:06:03,559
it's actually 25, that's new data.

885
01:06:03,860 --> 01:06:06,559
this is a 25-year period
of how that area is done.

886
01:06:07,309 --> 01:06:10,559
and, you know, contrary to
privately, it is actually doing well.

887
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,079
I mean, it's not a, you
know, a behemoth as far

888
01:06:13,081 --> 01:06:15,559
as money, but everything
is improving in there.

889
01:06:15,561 --> 01:06:16,561
it's got the trend up.

890
01:06:17,210 --> 01:06:20,559
if you look around 2020, they even
had their downside there with covid,

891
01:06:20,561 --> 01:06:23,559
but they recovered,
and they're still going up.

892
01:06:23,860 --> 01:06:25,559
I would hate to sacrifice this area.

893
01:06:25,809 --> 01:06:29,559
this area is the only parcel
that we've talked about.

894
01:06:29,561 --> 01:06:30,686
this is being totally rezoned.

895
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:33,559
right now it's only zoned for commercial.

896
01:06:34,010 --> 01:06:36,188
what's being proposed that
we changed that from commercial

897
01:06:36,213 --> 01:06:38,559
to mixed use, which basically
may open it up to housing.

898
01:06:38,561 --> 01:06:42,559
so, we, you know, we take this
thing off out of the, you know,

899
01:06:42,835 --> 01:06:47,559
realm of building our retail and
just sacrifice them more housing.

900
01:06:48,510 --> 01:06:50,559
and they're approximately, and I count it.

901
01:06:51,010 --> 01:06:53,559
there's 18 currently active businesses.

902
01:06:53,659 --> 01:06:56,559
that's for the hdl data in that area in n.

903
01:06:57,159 --> 01:06:58,800
so, what are we saying to our businesses?

904
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:00,559
oh, okay, this 18 business is okay.

905
01:07:00,561 --> 01:07:02,559
we decide to turn you into houses.

906
01:07:03,159 --> 01:07:05,559
so, you know, sorry, but,
you know, you have to move

907
01:07:05,561 --> 01:07:08,559
or close that shop or move
somewhere else or do something.

908
01:07:08,561 --> 01:07:09,561
I think that's terrible.

909
01:07:09,710 --> 01:07:11,559
we do that kind of thing.

910
01:07:11,561 --> 01:07:12,559
we need this problem.

911
01:07:12,561 --> 01:07:15,559
we did keep as much commercial as we can.

912
01:07:15,710 --> 01:07:21,559
one to comment on the end.

913
01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:26,559
again, I would like to bring
up the a, b and c properties.

914
01:07:26,610 --> 01:07:29,559
I know that the criteria
didn't go for that,

915
01:07:29,635 --> 01:07:34,559
but couldn't we increase the,
increase the density of the, you know,

916
01:07:35,260 --> 01:07:37,559
of the height or something
to allow me we've got.

917
01:07:37,710 --> 01:07:40,559
we only need 443, okay.

918
01:07:40,561 --> 01:07:42,559
and we're, it was the 840.

919
01:07:43,210 --> 01:07:46,559
I mean, why should we give twice as
much of our property way as we need to?

920
01:07:46,561 --> 01:07:47,559
that's the surface of it.

921
01:07:47,561 --> 01:07:50,559
we're giving a double of
what we, what we have to do.

922
01:07:51,159 --> 01:07:53,559
now, I don't know, I, again, I prefer
the kennedy commission comment.

923
01:07:53,561 --> 01:07:56,201
we're just going to do the same
thing over and over again, though.

924
01:07:56,309 --> 01:07:57,559
if we keep doing this, we
just keep giving away property.

925
01:07:57,561 --> 01:07:59,559
we're getting out of the element.

926
01:07:59,809 --> 01:08:01,559
what we're going to degrade to,
if you look at the previous chart,

927
01:08:01,561 --> 01:08:05,559
that 20%, we're going to degrade
into a residential community only.

928
01:08:05,710 --> 01:08:07,693
and then they're going to
start taking parts in l.a.g.o.

929
01:08:07,717 --> 01:08:09,851
, and other places to
convert this big, the

930
01:08:09,853 --> 01:08:12,559
big mansions into,
into part we're building.

931
01:08:12,561 --> 01:08:13,559
so we've got nothing left.

932
01:08:13,561 --> 01:08:14,561
we have to rethink this.

933
01:08:14,735 --> 01:08:18,560
I'm very upset with the
state of california sacramento.

934
01:08:18,659 --> 01:08:21,560
they come in there and they,
they do these things to sit.

935
01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:24,076
if they would go back
out and look out, the

936
01:08:24,077 --> 01:08:26,560
eastern part of the
county has land out there.

937
01:08:26,810 --> 01:08:28,560
there is absolutely nothing on.

938
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:29,560
there's no cities out there.

939
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:31,560
there's nothing to be, you know, destroyed.

940
01:08:32,109 --> 01:08:34,560
that's what the society's done forever.

941
01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,560
in new york city, when they grew, they
went out the long, out the long island.

942
01:08:37,710 --> 01:08:39,560
he started building house
out there in california.

943
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:43,560
when la got too filled up, they came
to orange county, started building places.

944
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:44,560
they knew what's a riverside, aren't you?

945
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:45,841
they weren't as correct on that.

946
01:08:46,210 --> 01:08:48,560
but they go out and build in
places that aren't populated.

947
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,560
they don't go in and try to destroy cities.

948
01:08:52,060 --> 01:08:53,899
so the, the, the, the,
they need this to stop.

949
01:08:54,210 --> 01:08:56,560
and I wish the kennedy commission
and, and around this group,

950
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,560
I wish you would, would stop,
you know, coming to city meetings

951
01:08:59,560 --> 01:09:03,760
and go to the state and do the
people that really cause the problems.

952
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:05,560
we could build lots of affordable housing.

953
01:09:05,585 --> 01:09:07,560
we'd build an out, out
beyond right to start a,

954
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:10,560
santa margarita and an
out beyond mission viejo.

955
01:09:10,560 --> 01:09:11,586
there's nothing out there.

956
01:09:11,609 --> 01:09:12,609
absolutely nothing.

957
01:09:12,710 --> 01:09:14,311
if you'll believe me,
after meeting throughout

958
01:09:14,313 --> 01:09:15,786
there, drive out
there and take a look.

959
01:09:15,810 --> 01:09:17,560
you won't see a single house.

960
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:20,560
that's something common for right now.

961
01:09:20,560 --> 01:09:21,560
okay.

962
01:09:22,710 --> 01:09:26,560
well, I, I have a couple of questions.

963
01:09:26,685 --> 01:09:28,560
could you put that chart back up there?

964
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:29,560
do you mind if I ask you a question?

965
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:30,560
absolutely.

966
01:09:34,260 --> 01:09:36,560
uh, you, you're going to get
that, uh, back up there again?

967
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:37,560
oh, not back back.

968
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:38,560
no, no, there you go.

969
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:39,560
that one?

970
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:40,560
yes.

971
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:41,560
yeah.

972
01:09:41,560 --> 01:09:42,586
I just want to make
sure I'm understanding it.

973
01:09:42,609 --> 01:09:43,560
yes.

974
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,560
so basically, uh, this is a per quarter.

975
01:09:46,810 --> 01:09:50,560
is this for the, I want to
understand the matrix itself.

976
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:51,560
okay.

977
01:09:52,310 --> 01:09:54,560
uh, is this what we lost it again?

978
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:55,560
okay.

979
01:09:56,159 --> 01:09:59,560
so is this, is this for all
businesses within the city?

980
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:00,560
no, no.

981
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:01,560
we're just, this is in.

982
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:02,560
this is in.

983
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:03,560
that's what I'm saying.

984
01:10:03,635 --> 01:10:08,560
this is specifically the two three five
and two three six rid through addresses.

985
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:09,560
only.

986
01:10:10,109 --> 01:10:12,560
so there is, and there is essentially.

987
01:10:12,609 --> 01:10:15,560
these are the ones that are a
little more than six million dollars.

988
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:16,560
no, no.

989
01:10:16,560 --> 01:10:17,560
that's 6,000.

990
01:10:17,560 --> 01:10:18,560
6,000.

991
01:10:18,710 --> 01:10:19,560
oh, six thousand.

992
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:20,560
yeah, I said it's not a behemoth.

993
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:21,560
okay.

994
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,560
six thousand dollars
in taxes for the quarter.

995
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:24,560
but there's another.

996
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:25,560
yeah, per quarter.

997
01:10:25,609 --> 01:10:26,560
I just want to understand.

998
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,560
yeah, so four, four dots that
make up the curve is a year.

999
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:31,560
but these are by quarter.

1000
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:32,560
okay.

1001
01:10:32,710 --> 01:10:33,560
okay.

1002
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:34,560
yeah, I understand.

1003
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:35,560
so you're multiply by four.

1004
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:36,560
I can do that.

1005
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:37,610
so basically I didn't have all this tribe.

1006
01:10:37,635 --> 01:10:40,560
but basically you're
looking at about 35,000.

1007
01:10:40,710 --> 01:10:41,560
okay.

1008
01:10:41,560 --> 01:10:42,560
for a year.

1009
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:43,560
yeah.

1010
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:49,560
I mean, the overall nature of what you're,
what you're putting on here is I, you know,

1011
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,560
I applaud that you did that work
and you're pointing it out to us.

1012
01:10:53,859 --> 01:10:58,560
I mean, economic development in our city
is probably the most important thing that

1013
01:10:58,784 --> 01:11:00,560
we need to do.

1014
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:06,560
we can't continue to be a bedroom community
community forever and ever and ever.

1015
01:11:06,710 --> 01:11:08,560
it would be out of business completely.

1016
01:11:09,609 --> 01:11:13,796
and, you know, we put
too much, you know, stock

1017
01:11:13,807 --> 01:11:18,560
on the fact that nothing
in the world ever changes.

1018
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:26,560
and we let them all of 50 years, you know,
basically wash away, not overnight, but

1019
01:11:26,560 --> 01:11:31,560
over probably 10 or 15 years
and we didn't do anything about it.

1020
01:11:32,010 --> 01:11:36,560
we just thought, oh, well, we've got all
of the sales tax and we'll have it forever.

1021
01:11:36,659 --> 01:11:43,560
while our surrounding communities have
double cost goes and car dealerships and

1022
01:11:43,734 --> 01:11:46,560
all kinds of stuff and
they're floating in cash.

1023
01:11:47,060 --> 01:11:52,560
so it is a, you know, the rhna stuff is a
big problem for us because it is robbing

1024
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:58,560
us in many respects of our,
what's left of our commercial areas.

1025
01:11:58,710 --> 01:12:03,560
and that respect I do agree
with councilman weeder.

1026
01:12:03,710 --> 01:12:08,560
I mean, architect in a planner and
I'm looking at this in other ways too.

1027
01:12:08,659 --> 01:12:12,560
the problem is we have state law.

1028
01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:17,560
I didn't say that I like the state law,
but the state law requires that we had

1029
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:21,939
1985, you know,
available rhna units that

1030
01:12:21,940 --> 01:12:26,560
could be developed at
least from our standpoint.

1031
01:12:27,010 --> 01:12:32,560
we're not developing them
that we're making it possible.

1032
01:12:32,685 --> 01:12:38,560
between, you know, within this
rhna timeframe, which is in 2029.

1033
01:12:39,210 --> 01:12:40,560
and so that's law.

1034
01:12:41,609 --> 01:12:44,560
we didn't, you know, that's
something that we totally control.

1035
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,560
whether we like it or not.

1036
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,560
and I do think we're making some progress.

1037
01:12:50,560 --> 01:12:55,560
I do think that we have another subject
matter of its is on the calendar today,

1038
01:12:55,810 --> 01:13:01,560
which is on the agenda today, which is
inclusionary zoning, which would certainly

1039
01:13:02,109 --> 01:13:04,560
help on the affordability side.

1040
01:13:05,034 --> 01:13:10,560
and I've now been on the council for
almost five years and I've looked at all of

1041
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:18,560
this and as a planner, I can see how this
is playing out in the development world.

1042
01:13:18,659 --> 01:13:22,560
and so we got to balance all of that.

1043
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:34,560
and, you know, in such a way that a
developer, they're in business to make money.

1044
01:13:34,659 --> 01:13:35,659
okay.

1045
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,073
so they're not going to
come in and say, oh, we

1046
01:13:38,085 --> 01:13:41,560
want, we're going to do a whole
thing, affordable, whole thing.

1047
01:13:41,859 --> 01:13:46,560
I mean, actually, if we would
present that to hcd, they'd laugh at us.

1048
01:13:46,909 --> 01:13:49,560
because we'd say, oh, we have
to zone it and solve it affordable.

1049
01:13:50,210 --> 01:13:51,560
and then nobody would ever do it.

1050
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,560
and, you know, it wouldn't pencil.

1051
01:13:55,359 --> 01:14:00,560
and so that would be just kicked
back in our face, in my opinion.

1052
01:14:00,859 --> 01:14:05,560
so, you know, so we're going to deal
with each one of these, one at a time.

1053
01:14:05,560 --> 01:14:09,560
the one that I have a little
bit of a problem with here.

1054
01:14:09,859 --> 01:14:11,027
because I don't mind
having a, you know, so that we

1055
01:14:11,028 --> 01:14:20,560
don't have to come back
here again before 1929, 1929.

1056
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:27,560
but the one I do have a problem
with is zoning site f to 30 to 80.

1057
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:33,560
I do not want to see six story buildings
right up against the backyards of those,

1058
01:14:33,710 --> 01:14:35,560
it looked like about five or six homes.

1059
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:37,560
that would be ridiculous.

1060
01:14:38,159 --> 01:14:41,761
and so, I mean, I think
you'd do something

1061
01:14:41,773 --> 01:14:48,247
pretty nice in site d and e if the developer
were to buy site f and make that the

1062
01:14:48,260 --> 01:14:51,560
swimming pool and
all the rest of the stuff.

1063
01:14:51,635 --> 01:14:54,560
because it would be on the
south side to get plenty of sun.

1064
01:14:54,609 --> 01:15:01,560
and it would be much less of an
issue if you're talking about, okay, now,

1065
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:04,560
it's not just numbers,
it's not just acreages.

1066
01:15:04,935 --> 01:15:07,560
it's about what are we doing here.

1067
01:15:07,909 --> 01:15:14,560
and so, if I were to make a change
to, or not change, but a proposal,

1068
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:20,560
an amendment to the
proposition of doing this,

1069
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:26,560
and we don't even have that on
the table quite yet, that would be it.

1070
01:15:26,859 --> 01:15:29,560
and that's my comments for right now.

1071
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:32,560
thank you, if anyone else has any comments.

1072
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:33,560
dave, go ahead.

1073
01:15:33,710 --> 01:15:37,560
yeah, but yeah, we've got
to figure out something.

1074
01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:39,560
I want to make three comments.

1075
01:15:40,460 --> 01:15:44,560
first of all, there's this comment that
keeps coming up and up over and over.

1076
01:15:44,909 --> 01:15:48,560
it's like, well, we can't do anything that
would inhibit businesses from building.

1077
01:15:49,359 --> 01:15:52,560
I'm like, well, okay, that
is one way to look at.

1078
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:58,560
but the other thing, why is that more
important than a city's ability to exist?

1079
01:15:59,710 --> 01:16:04,560
I mean, if we just keep
letting building go rampant,

1080
01:16:04,760 --> 01:16:07,560
then we will collapse
into an all residential city.

1081
01:16:08,109 --> 01:16:10,560
our sales tax revenue, we've got a zero.

1082
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:12,560
it's about six million each now.

1083
01:16:12,960 --> 01:16:14,560
our total budget is about 25, 26.

1084
01:16:14,609 --> 01:16:15,560
so we lose all that.

1085
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:17,560
the property is not
going to make up for it.

1086
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:19,560
and we basically have a downward spiral.

1087
01:16:19,659 --> 01:16:23,662
we can't, even now, we
cannot do the annual refresh

1088
01:16:23,738 --> 01:16:26,560
of our roads because
we haven't got the money.

1089
01:16:27,359 --> 01:16:29,560
because we're losing, we lost them all.

1090
01:16:29,560 --> 01:16:31,786
we lost approximately two
million dollars a year on that.

1091
01:16:31,810 --> 01:16:33,560
and we keep losing to that.

1092
01:16:33,859 --> 01:16:37,560
I don't see why it's any, it's
more important to let businesses,

1093
01:16:37,960 --> 01:16:40,560
I'm sorry, builders, you know,
succeed and have a big profits.

1094
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:42,560
that's the expensive cities.

1095
01:16:42,810 --> 01:16:44,560
you got to lose their cities.

1096
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,560
I think these are more
important myself for right now.

1097
01:16:47,560 --> 01:16:50,560
there's plenty of places
to build out the east.

1098
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,560
now let me go back to
something that's for the kennedy,

1099
01:16:54,060 --> 01:16:58,560
kennedy commission people here in the,
I guess it's welcoming neighbors group.

1100
01:16:58,710 --> 01:17:01,560
okay. Let me challenge both of you.

1101
01:17:02,159 --> 01:17:05,560
I've spoken to, I think the cs
are still the president of kennedy.

1102
01:17:06,659 --> 01:17:07,659
okay.

1103
01:17:08,010 --> 01:17:12,560
yeah, I've spoken to both the groups
privately in the back room, back everything.

1104
01:17:12,810 --> 01:17:16,560
and you guys are not
treating the whole problem.

1105
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,560
my challenge to you is, yes, you
can get somebody at place to live

1106
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:22,560
by forcing the portal
house in cities maybe.

1107
01:17:22,909 --> 01:17:25,560
but that's only 30% of a
person's, you know, income.

1108
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:28,185
that's the theoretical number
you're supposed to build out.

1109
01:17:28,210 --> 01:17:30,560
you're still at the other 70%
was take care of your insurance,

1110
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:34,560
your family, your food, your
transportation, all the other things.

1111
01:17:35,210 --> 01:17:39,560
when you put affordable in the middle of
a place where they really can't afford it,

1112
01:17:40,109 --> 01:17:42,560
you're putting them in a
very untenable position.

1113
01:17:42,710 --> 01:17:45,122
because 70% of their
income that they're going

1114
01:17:45,135 --> 01:17:47,560
to need to exist and
drive there is not there.

1115
01:17:49,260 --> 01:17:52,560
you need to work on a whole
solution, not just a 30% solution.

1116
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:53,560
anyway.

1117
01:17:54,060 --> 01:17:57,143
last thing, this sort
of just to comment

1118
01:17:57,154 --> 01:18:00,560
what don said about
the six story buildings.

1119
01:18:00,560 --> 01:18:04,560
I think we approved a six story
already on the pause village.

1120
01:18:05,310 --> 01:18:06,560
it was five or six.

1121
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:08,560
and that's over top of
at least several houses.

1122
01:18:09,409 --> 01:18:10,560
so we've already done that.

1123
01:18:11,310 --> 01:18:13,560
I mean, I didn't like it, but
we've already done that.

1124
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:21,560
so I mean, to get out of
having to sacrifice other retail.

1125
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:24,560
I don't know what you do.

1126
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:25,560
thank you.

1127
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:26,560
ok.

1128
01:18:26,909 --> 01:18:30,560
I'm going to move to mayor
pro tem, a juror at memphis.

1129
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:31,560
thank you, mr. Mayor.

1130
01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:35,815
listen, nobody likes to be in
this position where you have to

1131
01:18:35,817 --> 01:18:40,560
give away local control, essentially,
under the threat of penalty.

1132
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:44,560
it's not how good decisions get
made necessarily, not the best.

1133
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:47,158
and I agree with everything,
my colleagues have

1134
01:18:47,171 --> 01:18:49,560
said, and from a
philosophical perspective,

1135
01:18:50,010 --> 01:18:52,649
unfortunately, we're not in a
position to be able to rest on that.

1136
01:18:53,034 --> 01:18:56,560
because the project that was just
mentioned about la paz village,

1137
01:18:56,560 --> 01:19:00,560
that was a builder's remedy project because
we got outside of our housing element.

1138
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:05,828
and to not move forward here
tonight on a number of different

1139
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:09,560
things and risk being outside
of our housing element.

1140
01:19:09,560 --> 01:19:16,560
and then hertz are residents
without any level of control.

1141
01:19:16,560 --> 01:19:18,560
so that concerns me, right?

1142
01:19:18,609 --> 01:19:21,675
and so I appreciate the
work that's been done

1143
01:19:21,686 --> 01:19:24,560
in putting together
these different sites.

1144
01:19:24,710 --> 01:19:31,560
and I appreciate the work dave has done
in kind of outlining what those values are.

1145
01:19:31,710 --> 01:19:36,560
you know, just $30,000 a year
is that the tail wagging the dog.

1146
01:19:37,010 --> 01:19:40,119
I understand the
sentimentality of it and

1147
01:19:40,131 --> 01:19:43,560
the logic of protecting
our commercial zones.

1148
01:19:43,659 --> 01:19:45,560
but we have to comply.

1149
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,587
and we need to make sure
that we've got a surplus so

1150
01:19:49,599 --> 01:19:53,560
that we can further protect
the city going forward.

1151
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:59,512
as the sites, just a pure
evaluation of the sites, I think

1152
01:19:59,524 --> 01:20:03,560
the de and f and n are completely
adequate and appropriate.

1153
01:20:04,210 --> 01:20:07,385
and while I appreciate
the commentary about

1154
01:20:07,385 --> 01:20:10,560
placing high density
housing near freeways,

1155
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:13,560
there's also a reason
that it's affordable as well.

1156
01:20:13,635 --> 01:20:18,560
so that's just a balance
that we have to strike.

1157
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,560
and I think de and do that.

1158
01:20:22,960 --> 01:20:29,560
I also look at the idea of creating
community off of that ridge route location.

1159
01:20:29,810 --> 01:20:33,560
it's a nice big site. It's one big parcel.

1160
01:20:41,659 --> 01:20:45,435
and it's also got a bunch of commercial
next to it to really help create a dynamic

1161
01:20:45,448 --> 01:20:47,503
situation for that
commercial that is up and

1162
01:20:47,503 --> 01:20:49,560
down that furniture
road that is struggling.

1163
01:20:52,609 --> 01:21:00,560
those businesses are struggling. There's
a number of different vacancies there.

1164
01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:03,528
so I think if the owner actually
decided to develop and I think that would

1165
01:21:03,539 --> 01:21:06,640
benefit that area from a mix perspective
and create an interesting community.

1166
01:21:07,659 --> 01:21:11,708
de and f office buildings that have
a higher and better use at this point

1167
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:15,560
given that office buildings aren't
what they used to be in our world.

1168
01:21:20,560 --> 01:21:24,587
and the proximity to the
freeway and is actually I

1169
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:28,560
think attractive for people
that need to commute.

1170
01:21:31,710 --> 01:21:35,815
so for all of those reasons and
there's more, I would absolutely

1171
01:21:35,828 --> 01:21:39,560
endorse the work that staff
and our consultants have done.

1172
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:51,493
and I would say that I could agree to
that amendment that don mentioned to

1173
01:21:51,506 --> 01:21:55,560
take section f down to 50 dwellings
dwelling units per acre for that reason.

1174
01:22:01,260 --> 01:22:03,107
and I also understand
that that probably can be

1175
01:22:03,107 --> 01:22:05,072
handled through the
approval process with director

1176
01:22:05,083 --> 01:22:06,820
lowe. But I mean
essentially that would take

1177
01:22:06,820 --> 01:22:08,636
us down roughly 40
total units in our surplus.

1178
01:22:08,659 --> 01:22:12,560
I don't think that breaks the
bank one way or the other.

1179
01:22:12,710 --> 01:22:20,560
but if it helps protect those residents,
I would be for them. Thank you.

1180
01:22:21,159 --> 01:22:27,560
right, joshua, josh, I'm leaving.

1181
01:22:27,810 --> 01:22:30,560
was that a motion?

1182
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:32,560
I did not make a motion.

1183
01:22:32,560 --> 01:22:33,560
no worries, no worries.

1184
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:35,560
sorry to skip over your bed.

1185
01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:37,560
hasn't had a relationship.

1186
01:22:37,560 --> 01:22:41,560
it's at this point in what
he does, mr. Masters.

1187
01:22:42,109 --> 01:22:43,560
go ahead.

1188
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,560
just to comment on eyes
of the throughout there.

1189
01:22:46,609 --> 01:22:53,560
I would propose, okay, we can juggle,
I guess it's f to make it a little lower.

1190
01:22:53,909 --> 01:22:57,560
maybe build up d and e.
I'm sorry, that right, def, yeah.

1191
01:22:58,109 --> 01:23:00,912
we're only a few percentage
or a few hours away

1192
01:23:00,923 --> 01:23:03,560
from making d and f
solve the whole problem.

1193
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:06,560
so I suppose we increase the density there.

1194
01:23:06,609 --> 01:23:11,560
maybe it's just a d and e to
make it meet what we have to do.

1195
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,047
so we get through this
and then throw in maybe

1196
01:23:14,060 --> 01:23:16,560
c. I know it's a, they
say it's not a problem.

1197
01:23:16,710 --> 01:23:20,560
but even if acd looks at it,
okay, we already met your number.

1198
01:23:20,810 --> 01:23:26,560
throwing in the c is just, as the
buffer if you have to have one.

1199
01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:29,560
but again, I'm still trying
to protect the businesses.

1200
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:30,560
thank you.

1201
01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:31,560
okay.

1202
01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:32,560
thank you for yielding.

1203
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:34,560
erica, you don't have a button to push.

1204
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:38,560
so I'm going to just ask you, did
you have any comments or -- yes.

1205
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:44,560
yes. I, my comments
are basically that this is --

1206
01:23:48,210 --> 01:23:51,957
I don't think that this
is adequate in terms

1207
01:23:51,970 --> 01:23:55,560
of where the housing
and zoning should be.

1208
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:01,024
if we look at other
cities, which unfortunately

1209
01:24:01,036 --> 01:24:04,560
that is missing in
this presentation,

1210
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:08,560
if you look at what our
neighboring cities have done.

1211
01:24:08,609 --> 01:24:12,560
and cabbage, that is zoned for rhna.

1212
01:24:12,760 --> 01:24:16,560
however, there's all of these
independent homeowner, or excuse me,

1213
01:24:16,560 --> 01:24:19,560
business owners that
have no intention of selling.

1214
01:24:19,560 --> 01:24:22,560
and yet that's zoned for rhna.

1215
01:24:23,109 --> 01:24:26,560
and the same thing
happens in many other areas.

1216
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:29,560
we're talking mission b.a.l. Lake forest.

1217
01:24:29,810 --> 01:24:33,136
and the other cities
have essentially zoned all

1218
01:24:33,149 --> 01:24:36,560
around without the
intention of pushing forward.

1219
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:50,560
so I'm not sure why we as a city
cannot find other areas in the city.

1220
01:24:52,435 --> 01:24:55,560
I think that -- and
is -- it would be

1221
01:24:55,573 --> 01:24:59,560
devastating to see the
area I want to remember.

1222
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:06,503
but a group came in, a
dance group came in and

1223
01:25:06,515 --> 01:25:10,560
mentioned how many
people drive down to rich --

1224
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:14,560
a ridge route, and how many
dance studios are around there.

1225
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:16,560
it's kind of like a dance lane.

1226
01:25:16,760 --> 01:25:21,560
it makes it interesting is
that they shop in that area.

1227
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:26,560
so usually when you take your child to a
game or you take your child somewhere,

1228
01:25:26,659 --> 01:25:30,560
we don't have club soccer in our city.

1229
01:25:30,560 --> 01:25:34,560
we don't have any
high sophisticated sports.

1230
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:35,560
we haven't developed that.

1231
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:36,640
I've been trying for years.

1232
01:25:36,935 --> 01:25:38,560
but we don't have attractions.

1233
01:25:38,609 --> 01:25:45,560
but this is developing organically as an
area that is bringing visitors to the city,

1234
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:48,971
which actually feeds,
which is why one of the

1235
01:25:48,984 --> 01:25:52,560
reasons perhaps that
that area is doing better,

1236
01:25:53,210 --> 01:25:55,560
and which is what dave is trying to say.

1237
01:25:56,560 --> 01:26:04,560
I don't know what city fights the foot that
feeds or bites they and that feeds them.

1238
01:26:06,609 --> 01:26:10,796
but that's what exactly
happening is that we're

1239
01:26:10,807 --> 01:26:14,560
taking something
that is creating the jobs

1240
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:17,560
in the building that you're in right now.

1241
01:26:17,859 --> 01:26:21,560
the money comes from the tax revenue.

1242
01:26:21,810 --> 01:26:25,560
if it wasn't for these
businesses that feed,

1243
01:26:25,560 --> 01:26:30,560
we won't have the
employee's in the city.

1244
01:26:30,609 --> 01:26:32,560
we won't have a city.

1245
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:40,560
we need to be very strategic about what we
are doing to cut our hands off essentially.

1246
01:26:40,710 --> 01:26:44,199
and so I am not
supportive of n because it is

1247
01:26:44,212 --> 01:26:47,560
not a sound business
decision for the city.

1248
01:26:47,609 --> 01:26:54,560
it's sound for a developer, but
it's not sound for us as a city.

1249
01:26:54,760 --> 01:26:57,560
so I'm not supportive, unfortunately.

1250
01:26:57,560 --> 01:27:01,932
and I think that we need to
be more strategic financially

1251
01:27:01,944 --> 01:27:05,560
about what makes sense
for a win, win solution.

1252
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:08,560
and this unfortunately
doesn't hit the marker.

1253
01:27:09,984 --> 01:27:13,648
no, if you notice, most
cities don't just pick an

1254
01:27:13,659 --> 01:27:17,560
area where they have
retail that's starting to boom.

1255
01:27:17,710 --> 01:27:19,560
it's just, they don't.

1256
01:27:19,885 --> 01:27:22,560
so with that, you have my concerns.

1257
01:27:22,560 --> 01:27:24,560
okay, thank you, josh.

1258
01:27:24,859 --> 01:27:27,560
if I'm going to get back to you.

1259
01:27:29,609 --> 01:27:30,609
thank you, mayor.

1260
01:27:33,909 --> 01:27:35,659
for me, it's just really, you
know, wanting residents to

1261
01:27:35,671 --> 01:27:37,560
understand that tonight's
decision isn't an overall approval

1262
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:40,560
for 80 drawing units per
acre, anything like that.

1263
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:44,511
but it's just really about
state law compliance and our

1264
01:27:44,524 --> 01:27:48,560
intent to preserve the city's
certified housing element.

1265
01:27:52,109 --> 01:27:54,949
and as much as local decision
making authority as the law still allows.

1266
01:27:57,710 --> 01:28:00,051
so state mandate should
never be an excuse to stop

1267
01:28:00,064 --> 01:28:02,560
listening locally because
when projects come forward,

1268
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:07,501
we still have to understand what they're
going to do and pay serious attention to the

1269
01:28:07,512 --> 01:28:09,583
traffic and the parking
and emergency access

1270
01:28:09,583 --> 01:28:11,560
and everything that
comes along with that.

1271
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:17,560
so those are just my
thoughts and comments on it.

1272
01:28:18,359 --> 01:28:22,560
okay, well, I'll kind of wrap it up here.

1273
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:29,560
I'll actually make a motion that we
accept a staff report with one amendment.

1274
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:35,560
and that I believe,
and I'll explain, is site f.

1275
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:41,560
I do see if it's taken by a developer,
they'll probably take de and f, by the way.

1276
01:28:41,659 --> 01:28:46,560
but I think f should have the
restriction of between 20 and 30.

1277
01:28:49,635 --> 01:28:53,557
because that's town homes, or
something is two to three stories, which I

1278
01:28:53,569 --> 01:28:57,560
don't have a whole problem with
next to a single family residential area.

1279
01:28:58,109 --> 01:29:00,560
but I do have a problem
with six story buildings.

1280
01:29:01,159 --> 01:29:03,560
50 is still a four story building.

1281
01:29:04,010 --> 01:29:06,560
okay, so it's going to
have the same effect.

1282
01:29:06,609 --> 01:29:09,560
we're talking about a little
more than a naker there.

1283
01:29:10,060 --> 01:29:13,372
and so, yeah, it'll have
an effect and maybe

1284
01:29:13,385 --> 01:29:16,560
instead of having a
residual of 400 units,

1285
01:29:16,685 --> 01:29:21,560
we may end up with
something more like 350 or 360.

1286
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:26,323
but that would be the only
amendment, if that's even, we're

1287
01:29:26,336 --> 01:29:30,560
actually have to ask staff, if
that's even a doable kind of thing,

1288
01:29:30,710 --> 01:29:34,560
or am I throwing a monkey
wrench in the hole of our deal.

1289
01:29:34,810 --> 01:29:39,560
so to qualify as a housing site, you
need a minimum of 30 to all units per acre.

1290
01:29:39,560 --> 01:29:41,560
a minimum of 30.

1291
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:42,560
30.

1292
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:43,560
that's 30?

1293
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:44,560
30, yeah.

1294
01:29:44,810 --> 01:29:48,560
okay, but if we were to do that,

1295
01:29:49,159 --> 01:29:52,560
I mean, I still see, I look at that.

1296
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:55,560
in fact, I'm not, I'm looking
at the size of the site.

1297
01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:57,560
I'm actually imagining
a building there, right?

1298
01:30:00,460 --> 01:30:03,918
and so, you know,
it's, it's not the world's

1299
01:30:03,930 --> 01:30:07,560
largest site for, you
know, 80 units per acre.

1300
01:30:07,560 --> 01:30:10,514
I'm not sure if that's
really doable even if

1301
01:30:10,525 --> 01:30:13,560
we, if we, but our
planners have looked at it

1302
01:30:13,984 --> 01:30:18,560
and these, you feel like that
it's developable at that rate.

1303
01:30:18,635 --> 01:30:22,118
and I'm going to assume,
when you think of that sites

1304
01:30:22,130 --> 01:30:25,560
where we have that kind
of development like re-auto,

1305
01:30:25,784 --> 01:30:28,286
they're, they're relatively
narrow and they might,

1306
01:30:28,297 --> 01:30:30,560
something like that
could fit into that site.

1307
01:30:30,810 --> 01:30:33,766
but I really don't want
it to go down and tower

1308
01:30:33,779 --> 01:30:36,560
over all those residential
homes at the end.

1309
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:48,560
so, I would like to see that one basically
be fb and no more than 30 density.

1310
01:30:49,510 --> 01:30:52,070
and, and if somebody takes
down the whole thing, then

1311
01:30:52,082 --> 01:30:54,560
they'll just learn how to
rearrange the deck chairs

1312
01:30:54,810 --> 01:30:57,560
so they get the maximum
use out of the whole site.

1313
01:30:57,909 --> 01:31:02,560
and they'll probably end up with
like 65 as a total across de and f.

1314
01:31:03,659 --> 01:31:07,560
so that just be speaking
from the professional side.

1315
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:10,560
so that would be my
motion without amendment.

1316
01:31:10,560 --> 01:31:13,560
and do we have a second?

1317
01:31:14,510 --> 01:31:15,560
I'll second that.

1318
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:18,560
okay. Do we have any other
amendments to the amendment?

1319
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:20,560
possibly. I'm going to make
a comment on the first one.

1320
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:21,560
okay, go ahead.

1321
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:22,560
I just brought a picture.

1322
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:26,560
I wish I could throw it up on the screen.

1323
01:31:27,109 --> 01:31:33,560
the buildings that would be next
to the housing, let me pull up talking.

1324
01:31:36,159 --> 01:31:37,560
right there.

1325
01:31:37,560 --> 01:31:39,560
right there.

1326
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:40,560
right there.

1327
01:31:40,560 --> 01:31:42,560
that would be site.

1328
01:31:42,609 --> 01:31:44,560
site f.

1329
01:31:45,109 --> 01:31:48,234
what I'm sure on the mayor
is that the buildings next

1330
01:31:48,246 --> 01:31:51,560
to the housing, I should
have the physical layout of it.

1331
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:53,599
what if we just had, I
mean, they get, they're

1332
01:31:53,610 --> 01:31:55,206
probably a bit of park
because there's nothing

1333
01:31:55,229 --> 01:31:57,560
in there for the kids
to play on, and a pool.

1334
01:31:58,010 --> 01:32:01,560
what if they just, the pool and
the amenities be on that site?

1335
01:32:01,560 --> 01:32:03,560
next to the houses.

1336
01:32:03,710 --> 01:32:04,560
then you can have the building.

1337
01:32:04,609 --> 01:32:07,560
you'll be a setback of at
least twice this room maybe.

1338
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:08,560
or they're a bath.

1339
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:10,560
and then build, we can make it.

1340
01:32:10,710 --> 01:32:14,560
I think that's exactly
what somebody would do.

1341
01:32:15,010 --> 01:32:17,560
but we're talking about with plan numbers.

1342
01:32:18,409 --> 01:32:19,560
I know, but you know what we need to are.

1343
01:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,560
they still have to bring it to us to
approve it and all the rest of that.

1344
01:32:23,234 --> 01:32:27,560
so, but then we can meet our numbers
without, without lowering the densities.

1345
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,560
and hopefully not
sacrifice and is my objective.

1346
01:32:30,859 --> 01:32:35,560
so you're saying you would,
you would rather have it be 80?

1347
01:32:35,685 --> 01:32:42,560
I don't have to be 80 and sacrifice and all
across if that's what it gives the number.

1348
01:32:42,560 --> 01:32:43,560
the minimum to give is the number.

1349
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:44,560
I don't know what that would be.

1350
01:32:44,560 --> 01:32:45,560
maybe I have to.

1351
01:32:45,560 --> 01:32:46,560
that's the question.

1352
01:32:46,635 --> 01:32:50,585
to pull back, that means
we've got to negotiate with the

1353
01:32:50,596 --> 01:32:54,560
developer who might want
to do it 80 all the way across.

1354
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:55,560
yeah.

1355
01:32:55,710 --> 01:32:58,560
and I'd have to yield to the.

1356
01:32:58,560 --> 01:32:59,560
I'm afraid to see it.

1357
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:04,560
see if the 80 piece of
numbers share it right now.

1358
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:06,560
you would be really for that one.

1359
01:33:06,859 --> 01:33:08,560
so, okay.

1360
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:12,560
so, what do you want to do with that?

1361
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:13,586
I mean, you made a comment.

1362
01:33:13,609 --> 01:33:17,560
well, all right, I'd like to
make a substitute motion.

1363
01:33:17,659 --> 01:33:22,488
and then that we, we make
the density sufficient f to

1364
01:33:22,488 --> 01:33:28,560
meet our reener requirement
or no net loss requirement.

1365
01:33:28,810 --> 01:33:32,711
but, you know, add the
vision of that the amenities

1366
01:33:32,722 --> 01:33:36,560
will be built on the
housing side of the of the f.

1367
01:33:36,710 --> 01:33:39,560
such that they have a
separation of the housing.

1368
01:33:39,560 --> 01:33:41,560
okay, I'm not sure how that.

1369
01:33:41,810 --> 01:33:43,560
no, that's a bit complicated.

1370
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:44,560
I'm sorry.

1371
01:33:44,659 --> 01:33:52,560
yeah, I'm not sure how that would play out
in terms of how you write up this proposal.

1372
01:33:52,585 --> 01:33:55,560
is there a comment from staff on that?

1373
01:33:56,010 --> 01:33:58,560
so, seeking some clarification.

1374
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:04,560
for site f, you're proposing a
flat 30 dwelling units per acre.

1375
01:34:04,583 --> 01:34:09,620
and then for site n, you would
like to council member wheeler would

1376
01:34:09,645 --> 01:34:13,560
like to drop site n and then
increase the densities for site d and e.

1377
01:34:14,260 --> 01:34:15,560
no, I'm sorry.

1378
01:34:15,734 --> 01:34:17,560
d and f, okay.

1379
01:34:17,685 --> 01:34:22,560
we increase the density to
meet our no net loss requirement.

1380
01:34:23,310 --> 01:34:26,322
but for site n, we
restrict the, I guess, the

1381
01:34:26,333 --> 01:34:29,560
sort of the eastern part
of it to the amenities.

1382
01:34:30,210 --> 01:34:33,399
so, that there would be a
setback, basically, where a pool

1383
01:34:33,412 --> 01:34:36,560
or their playground would
be for that particular project.

1384
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:38,560
so, absolutely separate.

1385
01:34:38,560 --> 01:34:42,560
so, if we then have a high rise, it
would be separated from the houses.

1386
01:34:42,560 --> 01:34:43,560
would I agree with don?

1387
01:34:43,560 --> 01:34:44,560
it's not.

1388
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:47,560
I used to have, you know, a
six-story looking down your backyard.

1389
01:34:48,359 --> 01:34:50,019
and then that would
preserve, it would preserve

1390
01:34:50,030 --> 01:34:51,560
our businesses and
then and eliminate them.

1391
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:55,560
all right, I have a comment on that one.

1392
01:34:56,409 --> 01:35:01,560
sure. If I'm reading this right and I'm
looking at the potential capacities here.

1393
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:04,537
d and f has a capacity
of three hundred and

1394
01:35:04,548 --> 01:35:07,560
eight, which doesn't
really even get us our rhna.

1395
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:15,560
so, you're saying next, next n, and only do
d and f, and that will not meet our rhna.

1396
01:35:18,460 --> 01:35:20,560
what do you, we got it up to three.

1397
01:35:20,560 --> 01:35:25,560
it's 380, our requirement is only 430.

1398
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:26,560
yeah, 440.

1399
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:27,560
it's pretty close.

1400
01:35:27,560 --> 01:35:28,560
okay.

1401
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:29,560
clarify for me.

1402
01:35:29,560 --> 01:35:30,560
it's only d.

1403
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:36,560
it's 300 and f will meet the
rhna that known that loss.

1404
01:35:36,560 --> 01:35:43,560
you would need a minimum of a
hundred and twenty dwelling units per acre.

1405
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:44,560
all right.

1406
01:35:44,560 --> 01:35:48,560
I'm going to now, I'm
going to get off the mic.

1407
01:35:49,234 --> 01:35:53,560
and ask mayor pro tem jared mathis he had comments.

1408
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:57,560
well, there's a substitute
motion, I think, on the floor.

1409
01:35:58,196 --> 01:36:09,526
but my question for staff is if
mayor casky wanted to do 30 units

1410
01:36:09,550 --> 01:36:15,527
per acre and no more on f is
that even possible in this scenario?

1411
01:36:16,560 --> 01:36:18,560
with the dropping of site n?

1412
01:36:18,560 --> 01:36:23,560
no, no, no, just taking f down to 30 flat.

1413
01:36:24,720 --> 01:36:30,158
or and then the back up to that question
is, are the things that we're being

1414
01:36:30,182 --> 01:36:34,584
discussed here in terms of amenities
and how the development it shapes out?

1415
01:36:34,609 --> 01:36:37,622
are all those things possible
to control through the approval

1416
01:36:37,646 --> 01:36:41,505
process and we don't need
to address the density number?

1417
01:36:41,529 --> 01:36:44,904
I would say no, not through
just if a planning application

1418
01:36:44,928 --> 01:36:47,520
were to come in without anything
development standard being

1419
01:36:47,544 --> 01:36:52,607
adopted, I'm trying to play out
what that development standard

1420
01:36:52,631 --> 01:36:58,345
would look like on the
southern property line for site f.

1421
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:03,581
it would need to have its own
carve out specifically for that

1422
01:37:03,592 --> 01:37:07,560
property in terms of setback
of where you could put housing.

1423
01:37:07,583 --> 01:37:09,127
because these are
three separate parcels,

1424
01:37:09,151 --> 01:37:12,042
right? So the possibility
exists that the owner

1425
01:37:12,066 --> 01:37:14,940
that's singular now
could sell off each of these

1426
01:37:14,964 --> 01:37:19,301
parcels with these new
capacity numbers, right?

1427
01:37:19,325 --> 01:37:25,875
so the idea that it's one
big project could be a fantasy.

1428
01:37:27,119 --> 01:37:31,665
it could be. I think from the property I
understand point, that's how they envisioned

1429
01:37:31,689 --> 01:37:37,023
all three parcels to be the highest invest
use for coming up with the residential.

1430
01:37:37,048 --> 01:37:40,613
we have seen some preliminary
schematic designs, but nothing

1431
01:37:40,625 --> 01:37:44,560
that actually went into more
details of setbacks or whatever.

1432
01:37:44,583 --> 01:37:47,655
I'm trying to think of how
we would outline development

1433
01:37:47,679 --> 01:37:52,761
standards to ensure that there
was amenities located on site f.

1434
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:58,721
I'm actually looking to the city
attorney because I don't know short of a

1435
01:37:58,734 --> 01:38:02,560
potential negotiation through a
development agreement, I'm not quite sure.

1436
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:04,674
we would have to go through
development agreement because

1437
01:38:04,674 --> 01:38:06,565
if we put in setback
requirements then they can ask

1438
01:38:06,578 --> 01:38:08,662
for a waiver or concession
of those. It could physically

1439
01:38:08,662 --> 01:38:10,560
preclude or if there's
something else that happens.

1440
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:16,560
so it's not impossible.
It would just be difficult to administer.

1441
01:38:16,585 --> 01:38:21,392
yeah. No, I understand. I'm just
trying to thread a needle in a way.

1442
01:38:21,416 --> 01:38:24,674
so then for giving all
those realities from the

1443
01:38:24,698 --> 01:38:28,052
staff perspective, what is
the best way to accomplish

1444
01:38:28,076 --> 01:38:31,069
the goal of minimizing
impact on the current

1445
01:38:31,094 --> 01:38:35,294
residents that are going
to be next to zone f?

1446
01:38:35,319 --> 01:38:40,618
is it a reduction in the proposed
density or handled through

1447
01:38:40,643 --> 01:38:43,183
a development agreement
and keep the density where it is?

1448
01:38:43,207 --> 01:38:48,462
it's a development agreement. So
when initially it was proposed to drop the

1449
01:38:48,486 --> 01:38:53,133
density to 50, but it was going to
be a loss of 26 units dropping it to 30.

1450
01:38:53,157 --> 01:38:54,718
I don't actually know
what that decrease in

1451
01:38:54,743 --> 01:38:57,889
units for the surplus,
but I think a development

1452
01:38:57,913 --> 01:39:01,659
agreement is the only way to necessarily
negotiate how they outline the property.

1453
01:39:02,688 --> 01:39:05,661
all right, but then I will
remove my proposed

1454
01:39:05,686 --> 01:39:11,055
amendment from the
motion and we'll go back to

1455
01:39:11,079 --> 01:39:14,927
my motion. I'll go back
and say my motion is

1456
01:39:14,952 --> 01:39:19,560
basically to go with
staff's recommendations.

1457
01:39:19,585 --> 01:39:32,560
and then do we have second to that? I'll second. We can go from there.

1458
01:39:32,951 --> 01:39:36,952
well, okay. We're going
to vote on your motion too.

1459
01:39:36,977 --> 01:39:41,249
I'm going to take it
all the way back to it.

1460
01:39:41,274 --> 01:39:53,560
we didn't have a second on yours yet.
We have a second on from anyone? Erica?

1461
01:39:53,585 --> 01:39:59,610
so that amendment dies.
We're back to my original motion,

1462
01:39:59,635 --> 01:40:04,463
which is basically staff's
recommendation and I will fall

1463
01:40:04,488 --> 01:40:08,267
back on the fact that we
hopefully can develop development

1464
01:40:08,292 --> 01:40:11,760
agreements with whoever might be doing something there at a later date

1465
01:40:11,784 --> 01:40:17,767
to lessen the impact on people
immediately adjacent to f.

1466
01:40:20,556 --> 01:40:24,329
and we have it already.
You accept the second? Yes.

1467
01:40:24,354 --> 01:40:31,560
or the motion for the second.
Okay. Any other comments? Yes, dave.

1468
01:40:31,585 --> 01:40:33,982
okay. Is to clarify, first
of all, so you're saying that

1469
01:40:34,006 --> 01:40:40,196
d e f and m, even that's
going to double what we need.

1470
01:40:42,310 --> 01:40:44,560
that correct? Yeah, it's all of it.

1471
01:40:44,583 --> 01:40:48,491
motion is for everything.
Okay. I guess I'll

1472
01:40:48,516 --> 01:40:53,474
throw it out there. That's
probably deaf ears, I

1473
01:40:53,485 --> 01:40:55,439
guess now, but I do
not think it's wise that we

1474
01:40:55,439 --> 01:40:57,560
take a place that is only
zoned for commercial now.

1475
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:03,420
and now we've converted over to mixed
use to change the housing. We've never

1476
01:41:03,431 --> 01:41:07,560
done that before. We've taken mixed use
and put it in basically the rhna bucket.

1477
01:41:12,659 --> 01:41:14,674
that's the first time
we've done that. It's

1478
01:41:14,674 --> 01:41:16,783
a bad precedent. We're
talking 18 businesses.

1479
01:41:16,795 --> 01:41:20,560
hey, sianara, I just can't express how
bad I think it is. It makes our city look.

1480
01:41:22,659 --> 01:41:26,640
so, I cannot support
the item. I cannot support

1481
01:41:26,652 --> 01:41:30,560
m. Okay. Any josh, did
you have a comment? No.

1482
01:41:33,010 --> 01:41:36,622
no, I was. And I'll go again.
I'll curse you back to erica.

1483
01:41:36,635 --> 01:41:40,560
did you have any other comments?
Because you don't like to push.

1484
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:45,560
I don't have any comments. Okay. All right.

1485
01:41:51,260 --> 01:41:53,728
so we are now to, at
that point, the motion,

1486
01:41:53,739 --> 01:41:56,560
there is a motion and a
second to prove this item.

1487
01:41:58,810 --> 01:42:02,248
and I'm going to turn to
joshua to do the vote. Yes.

1488
01:42:02,261 --> 01:42:06,560
thank you, mr. Mayor. Council
member pezled. How do you vote? No.

1489
01:42:07,010 --> 01:42:09,560
council member sweeney. Aye.

1490
01:42:10,510 --> 01:42:16,560
council member wheeler. Mayor caskey.
Aye. And mayor per time, mathis. Aye.

1491
01:42:21,960 --> 01:42:26,493
yeah, I just have it. Okay. All
right. So, we're to the next item.

1492
01:42:26,505 --> 01:42:29,559
do we really need to
call a roll call again?

1493
01:42:41,909 --> 01:42:45,489
we're seeing here. Or
is that just a duplicate?

1494
01:42:45,502 --> 01:42:48,560
we're going to move
on to item 2.2. Yes.

1495
01:42:54,859 --> 01:42:58,615
actually, we're going to move on
to 2.2. But I want to tell everybody

1496
01:42:58,627 --> 01:43:02,560
in the room, which 2.2 is, you know,
the 70 matters inclusionary zoning.

1497
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:11,581
staff has done a ton
of work on this. And

1498
01:43:11,581 --> 01:43:13,581
with also outside
consultants that, you know,

1499
01:43:13,592 --> 01:43:15,554
use some of the, you
know, the really dug in

1500
01:43:15,554 --> 01:43:17,560
because one of the
things that we need to do.

1501
01:43:19,310 --> 01:43:22,689
we need to do is to make
sure it isn't that we just

1502
01:43:22,702 --> 01:43:26,560
passed something. It's going
to go back to hcd for review.

1503
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:30,899
and it's got to be
realistic on their part.

1504
01:43:30,912 --> 01:43:35,560
and I'm not going to make
an editorial out of that. I could.

1505
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:40,224
but the point is, is that it
is like threading a needle.

1506
01:43:40,235 --> 01:43:44,560
and so we, I do, I want to really
commend staff for all that work.

1507
01:43:47,560 --> 01:43:49,543
and what they're really
trying to do is make sure

1508
01:43:49,543 --> 01:43:51,527
that we land on a finish
line, that we don't get,

1509
01:43:51,538 --> 01:43:53,447
you know, somebody
coming back and saying, even

1510
01:43:53,447 --> 01:43:55,560
though we passed something,
that they don't like it.

1511
01:44:00,659 --> 01:44:04,568
and now here we go again. So I
really commend staff and everybody's

1512
01:44:04,579 --> 01:44:08,560
worked so diligently on this, you
know, whether you voted yes or no.

1513
01:44:09,859 --> 01:44:13,538
and, and I really thank
them for that effort.

1514
01:44:13,551 --> 01:44:17,560
so with that, we're going
to move on to item 2.2.

1515
01:44:35,060 --> 01:44:37,603
rz and e dash 0, 0, 1, 5 dash
2, 0, 2, 6, an amendment to title

1516
01:44:37,603 --> 01:44:40,186
ix and the laguna hills municipal
code to establish inclusionary

1517
01:44:40,198 --> 01:44:42,990
housing requirements as identified
in implementation programs, h dash

1518
01:44:42,990 --> 01:44:45,659
6, h dash 7 of the laguna hills
2021 through 2029 housing element.

1519
01:44:51,560 --> 01:44:53,984
the project includes and
ordinance establishing inclusionary

1520
01:44:53,984 --> 01:44:56,287
housing requirements for
residential development projects

1521
01:44:56,298 --> 01:44:58,770
in accordance with state law
and establishing an inclusionary

1522
01:44:58,770 --> 01:45:01,119
housing fund into which in
lieu of fees will be deposited.

1523
01:45:05,609 --> 01:45:09,676
and a resolution establishing a schedule
of in lieu of affordable housing fees

1524
01:45:09,689 --> 01:45:13,560
and administration fees associated
with inclusionary housing requirements.

1525
01:45:25,710 --> 01:45:28,292
and the recommendation of the
city to the city clant council and

1526
01:45:28,292 --> 01:45:30,997
we will conduct a public hearing.
That's what we'll be doing first.

1527
01:45:31,009 --> 01:45:33,517
and we do find the ordinance
and resolution are not subject to

1528
01:45:33,517 --> 01:45:36,470
environmental review under the
california environmental quality act ceqa.

1529
01:45:47,609 --> 01:45:49,832
to sequel guidelines sections
15, 0, 6, 0, parentheses,

1530
01:45:49,832 --> 01:45:52,256
print to and section 15, 378
as the ordinance and resolution

1531
01:45:52,269 --> 01:45:54,781
have no potential to result in
direct or reasonable reasonably

1532
01:45:54,781 --> 01:45:57,050
foreseeable indirect physical
change to the environment.

1533
01:45:57,560 --> 01:46:01,547
number 3, introduce for
first reading and the title

1534
01:46:01,560 --> 01:46:05,560
being an ordinance of
the city of the laguna hills.

1535
01:46:15,609 --> 01:46:19,317
and california adopting our in our z
any dash 0, 0, 1, 5 dash 2, 0, 2, 6 for the

1536
01:46:19,328 --> 01:46:21,491
inclusionary housing
program by adding chapter

1537
01:46:21,491 --> 01:46:23,560
9 dash through 73 dash
inclusionary housing.

1538
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:43,622
of title ix, zoning code of laguna
hills municipal code to establish an

1539
01:46:43,622 --> 01:46:46,686
inclusionary housing program required
the provision of affordable housing in

1540
01:46:46,698 --> 01:46:49,728
certain residential developments
establish an inclusionary housing fund and

1541
01:46:49,728 --> 01:46:52,880
provide alternative methods of compliance
and make findings related there too.

1542
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:11,921
and number 4, adopt the resolution entitled
a resolution of the city council of the

1543
01:47:11,921 --> 01:47:12,084
city

1544
01:47:12,084 --> 01:47:15,527
of laguna hills california establishing an
inclusionary housing in lieu of affordable

1545
01:47:15,538 --> 01:47:18,967
housing housing fee as an alternative to
providing affordable housing units required

1546
01:47:18,967 --> 01:47:19,049
by

1547
01:47:19,049 --> 01:47:22,355
chapter 9 dash 73 9 through 73 inclusionary
housing of the laguna hills municipal

1548
01:47:22,355 --> 01:47:22,560
code.

1549
01:47:27,460 --> 01:47:29,243
so this is a public
hearing for an amendment

1550
01:47:29,243 --> 01:47:30,987
to the laguna hills
code and we welcome all

1551
01:47:30,998 --> 01:47:32,870
as we did before you
all have a chance to have

1552
01:47:32,870 --> 01:47:34,579
input and I call for
the staff report now.

1553
01:47:35,010 --> 01:47:38,560
go ahead, director lowe.

1554
01:47:41,710 --> 01:47:45,599
good evening, mayor and members of the
council, so this is a proposed inclusionary

1555
01:47:45,610 --> 01:47:49,560
housing ordinance and in lieu fee that is
being presented to you for consideration.

1556
01:47:49,859 --> 01:47:52,560
so why an inclusionary housing program.

1557
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:57,303
so the housing
program, the inclusionary

1558
01:47:57,303 --> 01:47:59,395
housing program is intended
to implement housing

1559
01:47:59,408 --> 01:48:01,331
element programs h6
and h7 which call for an

1560
01:48:01,331 --> 01:48:03,560
inclusionary housing and
corresponding in lieu fee.

1561
01:48:06,760 --> 01:48:08,803
the intent also for
inclusionary housing is to

1562
01:48:08,803 --> 01:48:10,801
create a predictable
mechanism for developers

1563
01:48:10,814 --> 01:48:14,560
of generating de restricted affordable
housing as new residential development occurs.

1564
01:48:14,560 --> 01:48:17,886
recent residential approvals
have produced substantially fewer

1565
01:48:17,898 --> 01:48:21,560
affordable units than assumed in
the housing element plan framework.

1566
01:48:32,760 --> 01:48:35,520
the previous item in february
24th of 2026 the city officially entered

1567
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:38,320
into a state of no net loss and then
an inclusionary program would help

1568
01:48:38,332 --> 01:48:40,981
support the city's long term
affordable housing objectives reducing

1569
01:48:40,981 --> 01:48:43,985
reliance on future corrective actions
under the state's no net loss program.

1570
01:48:44,010 --> 01:48:47,661
the proposed program would apply to
residential developments of 10 dwelling units,

1571
01:48:47,672 --> 01:48:49,480
subject to specified
exemptions it would

1572
01:48:49,480 --> 01:48:51,560
require 15% of the new
units to be affordable.

1573
01:48:51,810 --> 01:48:55,672
affordable units must be
integrated within the market rate units

1574
01:48:55,685 --> 01:48:59,560
and comparable in quality design,
better mix and amenity access.

1575
01:49:03,659 --> 01:49:07,551
the availability restrictions would be for
a minimum of 55 years and developers must

1576
01:49:07,563 --> 01:49:11,560
submit an affordable housing plan and execute
a recorded affordable housing agreement.

1577
01:49:20,560 --> 01:49:22,842
so the proposed affordability levels,
the overall requirement for both rental

1578
01:49:22,842 --> 01:49:25,036
and ownership would be 15% for rental
would be divided between seven and a

1579
01:49:25,047 --> 01:49:27,366
half percent very low and seven and a
half percent lower meaning the developer

1580
01:49:27,366 --> 01:49:29,536
could satisfy the remaining seven
and a half with either low or very low.

1581
01:49:29,560 --> 01:49:37,560
and then for ownership housing 15%
with 5% lower income and 10% moderate.

1582
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:41,587
so the relationship to
rhna with no net loss

1583
01:49:41,587 --> 01:49:43,614
inclusionary housing
is a production tool but

1584
01:49:43,627 --> 01:49:45,570
not necessarily a
substitute for the city's

1585
01:49:45,570 --> 01:49:47,560
housing element and
no net loss obligations.

1586
01:49:48,284 --> 01:49:52,005
just to break down, the rhna
is basically to establish the

1587
01:49:52,016 --> 01:49:55,560
housing units the city must
plan for by income category.

1588
01:49:55,635 --> 01:49:59,704
no net loss would occur if the
city's site inventory decreased below

1589
01:49:59,716 --> 01:50:03,560
the threshold to be able to
satisfy it with future developments.

1590
01:50:03,585 --> 01:50:06,085
and then the role for
inclusionary housing would be

1591
01:50:06,096 --> 01:50:08,560
to create actual deed
restricted affordable units.

1592
01:50:08,635 --> 01:50:12,085
it would reduce future lower income
production deficits and reliance on

1593
01:50:12,096 --> 01:50:15,560
additional rezoning or corrective
actions like we did with no net loss.

1594
01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:25,854
but it is not intended to
replace the requirement

1595
01:50:25,867 --> 01:50:29,560
to maintain housing
element site capacity.

1596
01:50:37,560 --> 01:50:41,670
sorry. So how developers can satisfy the
inclusionary requirement the baseline would

1597
01:50:41,681 --> 01:50:45,560
be to construct the required inclusionary
units within the residential project.

1598
01:50:45,560 --> 01:50:48,622
there are methods for alternative
compliance the applicant can

1599
01:50:48,634 --> 01:50:51,560
propose alternative methods
for city council consideration.

1600
01:50:53,560 --> 01:50:57,328
those examples could be limited to
offsite affordable housing, land dedication

1601
01:50:57,341 --> 01:50:59,548
acquisition or generally
any method providing

1602
01:50:59,548 --> 01:51:01,560
an equivalent public
benefit to the city.

1603
01:51:02,710 --> 01:51:06,505
the other option is to pay the in lieu
fee so would be available to all ownership

1604
01:51:06,516 --> 01:51:10,560
units subject to the ordinance and to rental
units containing between 10 and 20 units.

1605
01:51:21,560 --> 01:51:23,638
but that being said rental
developments with more

1606
01:51:23,638 --> 01:51:25,673
than 20 units have to
provide affordable housing

1607
01:51:25,685 --> 01:51:27,644
on site unless they are
able to just show that

1608
01:51:27,644 --> 01:51:29,560
there is a case of extreme
economic hardship.

1609
01:51:32,560 --> 01:51:36,547
so what's going to support the in lieu
fee the city engaged keyser marston and

1610
01:51:36,560 --> 01:51:40,560
associates to economically study and
what could be supported for in lieu fees.

1611
01:51:41,010 --> 01:51:44,273
the study was based on
the proposed income levels

1612
01:51:44,284 --> 01:51:47,560
evaluating the fee using
affordability standards.

1613
01:51:47,560 --> 01:51:51,547
the affordability gap which would
be the economic difference between a

1614
01:51:51,560 --> 01:51:55,560
market rate unit and an affordable
unit regarding rent or sales price.

1615
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:03,600
in local market prototypes the city
used representative rental and ownership

1616
01:52:03,613 --> 01:52:07,560
prototypes based on the housing
element sites rezoning and market surveys.

1617
01:52:13,659 --> 01:52:15,683
so the study concluded
for base in lieu fees a per

1618
01:52:15,683 --> 01:52:17,667
square foot for rental at
the highest which would

1619
01:52:17,679 --> 01:52:19,709
be the 20 units at $41
and $0.21 a square foot and

1620
01:52:19,709 --> 01:52:21,739
$61 and $0.40 a square
foot for ownership housing.

1621
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:27,642
keyser marston concluded
that unit size affects

1622
01:52:27,642 --> 01:52:29,547
the affordability gap
so then an area based

1623
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:31,648
fee better correlates
the fee with the economic

1624
01:52:31,648 --> 01:52:33,560
value of the affordable
housing obligation.

1625
01:52:43,585 --> 01:52:46,288
it is a sliding scale so smaller
developments the in lieu fee would

1626
01:52:46,288 --> 01:52:49,033
be less the lower amount is basically
because inclusion requirements

1627
01:52:49,045 --> 01:52:51,635
tend to have a proportionally
greater impact on smaller projects

1628
01:52:51,635 --> 01:52:54,104
because fewer market rate
units are able to offset that cost.

1629
01:52:56,960 --> 01:53:00,588
but the full fee at 20 units
would be stated $41 and $0.

1630
01:53:00,600 --> 01:53:04,560
21 for rental and $0.61 and
$0.40 a square foot for ownership.

1631
01:53:07,560 --> 01:53:11,502
some policy considerations so this ordinance
is intended to balance affordable housing

1632
01:53:11,514 --> 01:53:13,467
production with the
need to avoid creating

1633
01:53:13,467 --> 01:53:15,560
unnecessary barriers
to new for sale housing.

1634
01:53:15,560 --> 01:53:20,560
the proposed ownership mix is
15% with 5% lower and 10% moderate.

1635
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:24,425
we did not necessarily go
deeper in terms of affordability just

1636
01:53:24,436 --> 01:53:28,560
because it would further the
economic burden for for sale projects.

1637
01:53:28,810 --> 01:53:32,307
the higher project costs can
affect project feasibility financing

1638
01:53:32,319 --> 01:53:35,560
and the ability to actually
bring new housing to the market.

1639
01:53:36,010 --> 01:53:40,070
this proposed mix is intended to
produce affordable ownership opportunities

1640
01:53:40,082 --> 01:53:43,560
without discouraging new housing
productions for the developers.

1641
01:53:45,560 --> 01:53:49,635
overall the ordinance has proposed
was to provide that balance between

1642
01:53:49,646 --> 01:53:53,560
ownership opportunities while
still maintaining housing production.

1643
01:53:53,560 --> 01:53:57,560
so the rental versus the
ownership in lieu fees rental housing.

1644
01:53:58,909 --> 01:54:02,752
the market rents were studied
for affordable rents for very low

1645
01:54:02,765 --> 01:54:06,560
and low income which led to
the $41 and $0.20 per square foot.

1646
01:54:13,659 --> 01:54:15,844
ownership the market sales
price with affordable units

1647
01:54:15,844 --> 01:54:18,029
were compared and then
this is where the affordability

1648
01:54:18,041 --> 01:54:19,990
gap was substantially
larger on a per unit basis

1649
01:54:19,990 --> 01:54:21,899
which is equivalent to
the $61 and $0.40 worth.

1650
01:54:25,010 --> 01:54:28,703
the fee was generated based
on the supportability gap

1651
01:54:28,715 --> 01:54:32,560
not necessarily just the 15%
inclusion and requirement.

1652
01:54:33,210 --> 01:54:34,814
so this fee is tied
to the affordability

1653
01:54:34,827 --> 01:54:36,810
obligation established by
the proposed ordinance.

1654
01:54:37,260 --> 01:54:39,560
it is not a generic development fee.

1655
01:54:40,010 --> 01:54:43,060
a rental and ownership fees
reflects the different affordability

1656
01:54:43,072 --> 01:54:45,560
gaps through separate
market and financial analyses.

1657
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:50,627
this methodology used representative
prototypes rather than a single project

1658
01:54:50,640 --> 01:54:54,560
to ensure that the range of housing
was accurately reflected in the fees.

1659
01:54:54,909 --> 01:54:58,134
and then the 10 to 20 unit
sliding sales to address the

1660
01:54:58,145 --> 01:55:01,560
disproportionate financial
impact on smaller developments.

1661
01:55:06,409 --> 01:55:09,917
keyser marston recommends an
annual index based adjustment and a

1662
01:55:09,930 --> 01:55:13,560
comprehensive reevaluation
every five years to reflect the market.

1663
01:55:13,609 --> 01:55:15,923
so all in lieu fees and
monitoring fees will be

1664
01:55:15,935 --> 01:55:18,560
deposited into a dedicated
inclusionary housing fund.

1665
01:55:24,409 --> 01:55:26,392
funds may be used for
affordable housing purposes

1666
01:55:26,392 --> 01:55:28,496
including acquisition,
construction, rehabilitation,

1667
01:55:28,507 --> 01:55:30,859
development assistance,
rental assistance, first time home

1668
01:55:30,859 --> 01:55:33,090
buyer assistance and program
administration monitoring.

1669
01:55:34,560 --> 01:55:36,694
the reported affordable housing
agreement would establish

1670
01:55:36,694 --> 01:55:38,641
affordability restrictions
and monitoring the resale

1671
01:55:38,654 --> 01:55:40,795
and occupancy patrols as well
as the long term compliance

1672
01:55:40,795 --> 01:55:42,786
of the obligations over the
period of the agreements.

1673
01:55:42,810 --> 01:55:45,275
and the fee schedule may
be updated periodically

1674
01:55:45,287 --> 01:55:47,560
to reflect those changing
market conditions.

1675
01:55:49,310 --> 01:55:51,560
so that gets to staff's recommendation.

1676
01:55:51,685 --> 01:55:55,560
staff is recommending that the
city council conduct a public hearing.

1677
01:55:55,560 --> 01:55:59,618
find the ordinance and
resolution are not subject to ceqa

1678
01:55:59,631 --> 01:56:03,560
under guidelines section
1-5-0-6-0-0-6-2 and 1-5-3-7-8.

1679
01:56:03,560 --> 01:56:06,573
introduce the inclusionary
housing ordinance as proposed for

1680
01:56:06,585 --> 01:56:09,560
first reading, read by title
only and wait for the reading.

1681
01:56:09,710 --> 01:56:13,560
and adopt the resolution establishing
the inclusionary housing in the fee.

1682
01:56:13,710 --> 01:56:16,510
and I am available for
questions as well as I have

1683
01:56:16,521 --> 01:56:19,560
kathy head from keyser marston is available too.

1684
01:56:20,310 --> 01:56:21,560
thank you.

1685
01:56:21,560 --> 01:56:23,560
okay. Thank you.

1686
01:56:23,560 --> 01:56:27,117
do we have agency that
is not trying to believe that

1687
01:56:27,128 --> 01:56:30,560
you can see members
that's questions of the staff?

1688
01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:37,560
presentation and I will
go first to jared mathis.

1689
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:47,510
thank you, mr. Mayor.
The concern that I have

1690
01:56:47,510 --> 01:56:49,503
is whether or not this
will create a situation

1691
01:56:49,515 --> 01:56:51,516
where we don't have
any further development in

1692
01:56:51,516 --> 01:56:53,560
the city because of
fees or anything like that.

1693
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:06,983
but let's just say that
that is the impact, right?

1694
01:57:06,983 --> 01:57:09,087
the development or building
of projects goes to zero

1695
01:57:09,100 --> 01:57:11,048
and the recommended
review period is five, every

1696
01:57:11,048 --> 01:57:13,159
five years take a look and
see what this looks like.

1697
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:22,412
if we wanted to, we could
take another look at it in five

1698
01:57:22,423 --> 01:57:26,560
years and make adjustments
based on market activity, correct?

1699
01:57:36,560 --> 01:57:40,524
I'm wrong. Other than the different iterations
of the mall that up until the last two

1700
01:57:40,536 --> 01:57:44,560
years, 25, 26, zero developments were approved
in the city of laguna hills since 2012.

1701
01:57:51,159 --> 01:57:54,347
yes, the last development
with residential and

1702
01:57:54,359 --> 01:57:57,560
a commercial was in
2012 for oakbrook village.

1703
01:57:57,560 --> 01:57:59,023
so the current five projects
are the first projects approved

1704
01:57:59,034 --> 01:58:00,560
since 2012, not counting the
different iterations of the mall.

1705
01:58:00,560 --> 01:58:01,560
yes.

1706
01:58:02,010 --> 01:58:04,560
okay. Thank you.

1707
01:58:05,260 --> 01:58:10,560
okay.
I will move now to councilman wheeler.

1708
01:58:10,560 --> 01:58:13,448
thank you. Well, let
me start with that last

1709
01:58:13,461 --> 01:58:16,560
question that the mayor
for two math was asked.

1710
01:58:17,859 --> 01:58:21,560
he said nothing has been approved
since 2012. What about rihanna?

1711
01:58:22,859 --> 01:58:25,560
2012 was rihanna oakbrook village.

1712
01:58:25,710 --> 01:58:29,560
rihanna was that far back. They
just didn't build it to an effort. Okay.

1713
01:58:30,560 --> 01:58:35,560
that was much more recent than that. Okay.

1714
01:58:35,710 --> 01:58:39,190
somebody else mentioned
acd review. I was under the

1715
01:58:39,203 --> 01:58:42,560
understanding that acd
did not have to review it.

1716
01:58:43,109 --> 01:58:48,560
that we were just, you know, obliged
to meet it, but they didn't check on it.

1717
01:58:48,659 --> 01:58:54,560
so hcd does have several opportunities
to basically check on the city status.

1718
01:58:54,760 --> 01:58:57,556
so with the adopted housing
element, one of the items that was

1719
01:58:57,569 --> 01:59:00,560
called out as an implementation
item was the inclusionary housing.

1720
01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:03,443
so every year the city has
to submit an annual progress

1721
01:59:03,454 --> 01:59:06,560
report of how it's meeting its
implementation requirements.

1722
01:59:06,909 --> 01:59:10,596
there's a table that the
state releases that actually lists

1723
01:59:10,609 --> 01:59:14,560
all the city's implementation
measures and then it is reviewed.

1724
01:59:14,710 --> 01:59:18,269
the city has to provide an update of
where we are on those implementation

1725
01:59:18,280 --> 01:59:21,560
measures that we had promised to
do as part of the housing element.

1726
01:59:23,560 --> 01:59:27,604
so every year that we've turned in
an apr, we have stated that we have

1727
01:59:27,617 --> 01:59:31,560
not moved forward and continue
to look into an inclusionary housing.

1728
01:59:31,560 --> 01:59:33,569
at some point, hcd can
request that we honor what

1729
01:59:33,581 --> 01:59:35,560
we had said we would
do as part of the elements.

1730
01:59:35,760 --> 01:59:38,679
also with, I mean, hcd
is constantly reviewing

1731
01:59:38,690 --> 01:59:41,560
and checking cities for
status on compliance.

1732
01:59:41,859 --> 01:59:45,198
I mean, sharing that any policies or
organs we adopt are in conformance with

1733
01:59:45,210 --> 01:59:48,560
the housing accountability act as well
as whatever we stated in the element.

1734
01:59:49,260 --> 01:59:51,948
so this is not officially
submitted, but that doesn't

1735
01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:54,560
mean hcd would not be
aware that we are doing this.

1736
01:59:55,560 --> 01:59:59,448
then what I heard was that I'm correct,
we do not have some, we do have to do a

1737
01:59:59,461 --> 02:00:03,560
report which just says, okay, of the areas
we've designated, here's how it's going.

1738
02:00:04,234 --> 02:00:06,560
if they want to look deeper, they can.

1739
02:00:07,409 --> 02:00:09,560
okay, so we do not have to report here.

1740
02:00:11,710 --> 02:00:18,560
okay, page four please.

1741
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:26,560
the presentation of the presentation.

1742
02:00:26,960 --> 02:00:29,560
okay, I need some clarification.

1743
02:00:29,659 --> 02:00:33,597
excuse me, under the
rental housing it says very low

1744
02:00:33,609 --> 02:00:37,560
and lower under the
ownership, it says lower income.

1745
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:42,628
okay, there's four
categories that I think we have

1746
02:00:42,640 --> 02:00:46,560
to meet is extremely low,
very low and moderate.

1747
02:00:46,909 --> 02:00:50,560
first of all, that's correct.

1748
02:00:53,560 --> 02:00:57,439
extremely low, very low,
low and moderate is that yes,

1749
02:00:57,451 --> 02:01:01,560
but generally extremely low
falls under the lower income.

1750
02:01:02,109 --> 02:01:05,560
sorry, so you're saying
it's on the very low and low.

1751
02:01:06,060 --> 02:01:07,560
I wasn't clear on that.

1752
02:01:07,560 --> 02:01:08,560
fair the influence.

1753
02:01:08,560 --> 02:01:11,560
hcd focuses on very low and low.

1754
02:01:12,060 --> 02:01:14,560
okay, very low and low.

1755
02:01:14,560 --> 02:01:18,560
okay, is extremely low required or not?

1756
02:01:18,659 --> 02:01:21,560
it is listed as a report.

1757
02:01:21,609 --> 02:01:26,560
the calculations in terms of rina
fall under the lower, which is very low.

1758
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:30,560
so, if we built no extremely
low, we would still meet rina.

1759
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:31,560
correct.

1760
02:01:32,060 --> 02:01:34,560
okay, why do we even include it then?

1761
02:01:34,909 --> 02:01:37,560
we should eliminate that from our lexicon.

1762
02:01:37,659 --> 02:01:41,560
I mean, I can't predict what's going to
be required as part of the seventh cycle.

1763
02:01:41,659 --> 02:01:42,659
okay.

1764
02:01:43,260 --> 02:01:47,560
okay, then clarify, okay, we've
got very low on this table and lower.

1765
02:01:47,609 --> 02:01:50,560
so, I'm assuming that lower means low.

1766
02:01:51,109 --> 02:01:53,560
low and very low.

1767
02:01:54,159 --> 02:01:57,560
yeah, I know, but the word should
not be lower, it should be low.

1768
02:01:57,659 --> 02:02:00,560
it would be very low and low in the rental.

1769
02:02:00,609 --> 02:02:03,600
so, it could be satisfied,
the 15% was seven and a half

1770
02:02:03,612 --> 02:02:06,560
percent of the units have
to be dedicated to very low.

1771
02:02:06,859 --> 02:02:08,974
and then the
developer can satisfy the

1772
02:02:08,985 --> 02:02:11,560
remaining seven and a
half percent with lower,

1773
02:02:11,560 --> 02:02:13,479
which means they
could either provide very

1774
02:02:13,490 --> 02:02:15,560
low or low to meet that
remaining percentage.

1775
02:02:16,060 --> 02:02:18,318
okay, we're probably need
to ask for them because these,

1776
02:02:18,329 --> 02:02:20,560
so this match of the actual
categories we have to meet.

1777
02:02:20,560 --> 02:02:24,560
okay, so lower, asterisk
means low or very low.

1778
02:02:24,659 --> 02:02:30,560
okay. In the ownership, lower
income, is that again the same thing?

1779
02:02:30,659 --> 02:02:32,560
only another different word usage?

1780
02:02:33,310 --> 02:02:36,560
but also, lower income
meaning very low and low.

1781
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:37,801
okay, so that's the same thing.

1782
02:02:37,960 --> 02:02:40,560
I probably should be made more explicit.

1783
02:02:40,560 --> 02:02:41,560
okay, thank you.

1784
02:02:42,409 --> 02:02:49,560
page eight, please.

1785
02:02:49,859 --> 02:02:53,560
okay, this is a confusion
on mathematics here.

1786
02:02:53,609 --> 02:03:00,560
$41.20 per square foot, square
foot versus 61.40 per square foot.

1787
02:03:01,260 --> 02:03:06,560
if you see the two numbers above
that, those are not, those don't match.

1788
02:03:06,909 --> 02:03:11,560
the 647 is more than twice, the 269.

1789
02:03:11,560 --> 02:03:14,560
but be a mapper square foot is not double.

1790
02:03:14,659 --> 02:03:19,560
so, I don't understand
how those even came about.

1791
02:03:19,810 --> 02:03:22,560
hi, I'm kathy head from keyser marston.

1792
02:03:22,609 --> 02:03:24,560
there are two, thanks for you.

1793
02:03:24,909 --> 02:03:26,670
there are two completely
different measures.

1794
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:31,677
so the square footages of the
units and the ownership prototypes

1795
02:03:31,689 --> 02:03:35,560
are significantly larger than
the units in the apartment units.

1796
02:03:36,010 --> 02:03:38,132
and so when you're
measuring, so that's why we

1797
02:03:38,145 --> 02:03:40,560
showed it two ways for
illustrative purposes to say,

1798
02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:43,560
here's the affordability
gap, looking at the per unit.

1799
02:03:44,260 --> 02:03:47,875
so, the difference between what the,
it's easier to explain with ownership than

1800
02:03:47,886 --> 02:03:51,560
rental is the difference between the
market rate price and the affordable price.

1801
02:03:51,609 --> 02:03:54,560
this affordable price
is the affordability gap.

1802
02:03:54,810 --> 02:04:01,560
for each moderate income, or in
this case the mix of low and moderate,

1803
02:04:03,784 --> 02:04:07,884
then the weighted average
affordability gap is $647,000

1804
02:04:07,895 --> 02:04:11,560
per affordable unit you'd
be required to provide.

1805
02:04:12,159 --> 02:04:17,560
then the way the per square foot
measure works is taking the entire project.

1806
02:04:17,909 --> 02:04:20,560
because then the notion is
there are no affordable units.

1807
02:04:21,159 --> 02:04:26,560
and so you're just spreading that
647 over the entire mix of the project.

1808
02:04:26,734 --> 02:04:32,560
it would generate exactly the same
fee if you just use that one project.

1809
02:04:35,859 --> 02:04:39,721
but our suggestion to use per square
foot is because typically the affordability

1810
02:04:39,734 --> 02:04:43,560
gap for smaller units will be less than
the affordability gap for larger units.

1811
02:04:43,935 --> 02:04:48,560
and so it's more fair to allocate
per square foot than it is per unit.

1812
02:04:49,210 --> 02:04:51,560
okay, I'm sorry, but that
didn't make sense at all to me.

1813
02:04:51,560 --> 02:04:53,560
okay, okay, let me make a sense.

1814
02:04:53,560 --> 02:04:54,560
I could try it a different way.

1815
02:04:54,560 --> 02:04:56,560
okay, there's, you have a housing unit.

1816
02:04:56,560 --> 02:04:58,560
it has semi-square feet in it.

1817
02:04:58,560 --> 02:04:59,560
same thing.

1818
02:04:59,560 --> 02:05:01,636
if you multiply that time to
61, okay, you get a number.

1819
02:05:01,659 --> 02:05:02,560
yeah.

1820
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:06,560
if you have a rental unit, it has
square foot, square feet, it's fine to it.

1821
02:05:06,960 --> 02:05:10,560
and if it's, let's just say for sake your
environment, they're both the same size.

1822
02:05:11,109 --> 02:05:12,560
those numbers aren't right.

1823
02:05:12,760 --> 02:05:14,560
but they're not the same size.

1824
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:16,560
okay, well, you're telling me the
square foot is different between the two?

1825
02:05:16,560 --> 02:05:17,560
yes.

1826
02:05:17,659 --> 02:05:20,560
okay, well, square foot
is only the square foot.

1827
02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:24,560
well, no, but as a per unit, it's tend
to be smaller than ownership units.

1828
02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:25,560
that's still nothing.

1829
02:05:26,010 --> 02:05:27,560
well, no, so we have prototype.

1830
02:05:27,560 --> 02:05:29,560
a square foot is still a square foot.

1831
02:05:30,609 --> 02:05:31,560
it's a square foot of the total area.

1832
02:05:31,585 --> 02:05:35,436
so you have to take the square
foot times the total area of the

1833
02:05:35,448 --> 02:05:39,560
project and then figure out what
the affordability gap is for that.

1834
02:05:40,359 --> 02:05:41,560
so it's completely different.

1835
02:05:41,659 --> 02:05:44,077
if you look at the report, I
mean, I'm happy to go through

1836
02:05:44,088 --> 02:05:46,560
some examples from the report
where we show the prototypes.

1837
02:05:46,560 --> 02:05:52,560
and then what that difference is on a
per unit basis and a per square foot basis.

1838
02:05:53,359 --> 02:05:54,560
I have the report.

1839
02:05:54,560 --> 02:05:55,560
we can go through it.

1840
02:05:56,659 --> 02:05:57,659
okay, that's right.

1841
02:05:58,109 --> 02:05:59,560
there's no more doing that.

1842
02:05:59,760 --> 02:06:01,560
it's not apples to apples, dave.

1843
02:06:01,560 --> 02:06:02,560
it's two different size.

1844
02:06:02,560 --> 02:06:08,560
a four-sale home is bigger than,
or unit is bigger than the four-room.

1845
02:06:09,060 --> 02:06:10,560
it's not only that, but it's different.

1846
02:06:10,560 --> 02:06:17,560
it's different.

1847
02:06:17,560 --> 02:06:19,560
you're basically on a different size.

1848
02:06:19,560 --> 02:06:23,560
yeah, my only question is, it's a
multi-variable question actually too.

1849
02:06:27,560 --> 02:06:31,547
because the cost per square foot
of building a multi-story apartment

1850
02:06:31,560 --> 02:06:35,560
building is much higher per square
foot than a typical housing unit.

1851
02:06:35,560 --> 02:06:37,560
so you've got square footages.

1852
02:06:37,560 --> 02:06:39,560
you've got cost per square foot.

1853
02:06:39,960 --> 02:06:43,560
so I don't know that that's where
the apples and apples things come in.

1854
02:06:44,010 --> 02:06:47,894
it's not, you're not looking at
something that just crosses over

1855
02:06:47,905 --> 02:06:51,560
and it's exactly something
you can calculate quite that way.

1856
02:06:51,560 --> 02:06:52,560
you've got elevators.

1857
02:06:52,560 --> 02:06:55,645
you've got a different
level of fire protection,

1858
02:06:55,657 --> 02:06:58,560
all kinds of things in
an apartment building.

1859
02:06:58,560 --> 02:07:00,560
a large one especially.

1860
02:07:01,109 --> 02:07:05,560
then you do single-family home
or town homes or things like that.

1861
02:07:05,560 --> 02:07:06,560
that's it.

1862
02:07:07,060 --> 02:07:10,560
thank you. I don't know my math
professor was avoiding oil for that.

1863
02:07:10,560 --> 02:07:11,560
anyway.

1864
02:07:11,659 --> 02:07:16,560
okay.

1865
02:07:17,109 --> 02:07:21,560
for sake environment, can we say in
five years, everything is different now.

1866
02:07:21,560 --> 02:07:28,560
can we go from 15% to 20% or
are we restricted, never to go up?

1867
02:07:29,510 --> 02:07:31,560
which I've heard has happened in the past.

1868
02:07:32,060 --> 02:07:34,586
well, we can always go
up. It would just require

1869
02:07:34,597 --> 02:07:37,560
additional feasibility
studies to justify that increase.

1870
02:07:38,310 --> 02:07:42,560
so we would have to have a feasibility
study to justify anything over 15%.

1871
02:07:43,159 --> 02:07:45,560
what do you mean by feasibility study?

1872
02:07:46,560 --> 02:07:48,918
are you saying that now
the doers are going to

1873
02:07:48,930 --> 02:07:51,560
afford more so we're going
to get more out of them?

1874
02:07:52,810 --> 02:07:56,649
what you do with the feasibility study is
you would look at the courts of determined

1875
02:07:56,662 --> 02:08:00,560
that there can be an economic impact of
creating an inclusionary housing requirement.

1876
02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:04,560
they've found that it's a planning
tool rather than an extraction so far.

1877
02:08:05,060 --> 02:08:06,560
this remains an outstanding issue.

1878
02:08:06,710 --> 02:08:09,560
there are court cases as we sit right now.

1879
02:08:09,810 --> 02:08:14,560
and so, as jen just said, anything
could change in the number of years.

1880
02:08:16,909 --> 02:08:20,756
but right now, what hcd is
basically said is if you have

1881
02:08:20,769 --> 02:08:24,560
a 15% requirement, they're
kind of deeming it feasible.

1882
02:08:24,760 --> 02:08:26,560
so that's where that notion comes from.

1883
02:08:28,609 --> 02:08:32,600
so if you go above the 15%, then you
would be in a position where you had

1884
02:08:32,612 --> 02:08:36,560
to evaluate what the economic impact
was of imposing this planning tool.

1885
02:08:36,760 --> 02:08:40,234
so clearly, there is one because
the developers getting less

1886
02:08:40,247 --> 02:08:43,560
money than they would if it
was 100% market rate project.

1887
02:08:44,010 --> 02:08:47,560
the courts didn't tell us how
much that economic impact could be.

1888
02:08:48,310 --> 02:08:51,398
they merely said it can't be
confiscatory and it can't deprive

1889
02:08:51,409 --> 02:08:54,560
a property owner of a fair and
reasonable return on investment.

1890
02:08:55,010 --> 02:08:59,560
then they left that to the jurisdictions to
determine what they were comfortable with.

1891
02:09:02,560 --> 02:09:04,374
and so, in the case
of laguna hills, if you

1892
02:09:04,374 --> 02:09:06,527
approve the ordinance, you
have determined that you

1893
02:09:06,538 --> 02:09:08,359
are comfortable with
the affordable housing

1894
02:09:08,359 --> 02:09:10,560
requirements that you're
recommending at the moment.

1895
02:09:21,609 --> 02:09:29,560
okay, long answer to say yes, okay.

1896
02:09:30,609 --> 02:09:32,122
okay, question of why is
it that the state is requiring

1897
02:09:32,134 --> 02:09:33,685
us to build 65% of our units
as some type of affordable.

1898
02:09:33,710 --> 02:09:36,560
why should we be happy with 15?

1899
02:09:36,560 --> 02:09:40,015
they are directly connected,
but the rhna and then how

1900
02:09:40,028 --> 02:09:43,560
you get credit for the number
of units on your rezoning.

1901
02:09:43,560 --> 02:09:47,547
they've assigned basically to
allow you to count potentially up

1902
02:09:47,560 --> 02:09:51,560
to 100% of your rhna towards
low income with that feasibility.

1903
02:09:51,909 --> 02:09:56,560
but they see the inclusionary
is not to fully satisfy your rhna.

1904
02:09:56,960 --> 02:10:01,560
it's just meant as a planning tool to
help encourage additional affordable.

1905
02:10:01,859 --> 02:10:03,673
so, they should
be related though.

1906
02:10:03,685 --> 02:10:06,560
I mean, could grief they
tell us to build 1985 places,

1907
02:10:07,185 --> 02:10:09,585
but then you're only allowed
to make 15 of them affordable,

1908
02:10:09,596 --> 02:10:11,560
which I'll get to a child
in my present amenity.

1909
02:10:11,560 --> 02:10:15,560
it's more homework on this one.
That's absolutely absurd.

1910
02:10:15,560 --> 02:10:19,560
we have to build 65, but
we're only allowed to charge 15.

1911
02:10:20,560 --> 02:10:26,560
let's see if I have another
question as opposed to comment.

1912
02:10:26,960 --> 02:10:30,136
one more comment.
State law seems to try to

1913
02:10:30,148 --> 02:10:33,560
override everything
that the city tries to do.

1914
02:10:34,260 --> 02:10:38,560
the other question is one of the questions.

1915
02:10:39,810 --> 02:10:45,560
what the question is that even if
we did approve this inclusionary,

1916
02:10:45,909 --> 02:10:48,751
I mean, I talked to you
on monday and there's like

1917
02:10:48,762 --> 02:10:51,560
four things you mentioned
to me that can be done.

1918
02:10:51,810 --> 02:10:56,560
are there any state laws that
would override this, basically?

1919
02:10:56,659 --> 02:10:58,560
my understanding is no.

1920
02:10:59,159 --> 02:11:02,880
so, even though there's state
density bonus that generally

1921
02:11:02,891 --> 02:11:06,560
sets the standard for certain
densities to come in at 5%.

1922
02:11:06,659 --> 02:11:10,560
the inclusionary housing,
if you adopt it, would apply.

1923
02:11:10,810 --> 02:11:13,462
the issue comes down to if
you do not have inclusionary

1924
02:11:13,475 --> 02:11:15,560
and then an sb330
application is submitted,

1925
02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:18,560
then you're locked into whatever
provisions are currently in place.

1926
02:11:18,659 --> 02:11:21,560
if we adopt afterwards,
would not be applicable.

1927
02:11:21,609 --> 02:11:24,692
okay, I like your order answer,
but okay, basically you're saying

1928
02:11:24,703 --> 02:11:27,560
that right now, state law
cannot override this inclusionary.

1929
02:11:27,760 --> 02:11:31,238
I'm looking to the city
attorney, but I'm confirming that

1930
02:11:31,251 --> 02:11:34,560
density bonus cannot
override an inclusionary housing.

1931
02:11:34,560 --> 02:11:38,560
actually, maybe this is a column question.

1932
02:11:38,984 --> 02:11:40,891
that's correct. I mean,
state laws will still apply

1933
02:11:40,904 --> 02:11:42,636
for the waiver's
concessions and those things,

1934
02:11:42,659 --> 02:11:45,154
but the inclusionary housing will
be something that we can require

1935
02:11:45,166 --> 02:11:47,560
from developers and even
developers to request density bonuses.

1936
02:11:47,560 --> 02:11:50,560
okay, well, you said
something that bothers me.

1937
02:11:50,859 --> 02:11:53,560
you said that they could still
use other things to override this?

1938
02:11:53,560 --> 02:11:56,560
not to override this, we
can still require that 15%.

1939
02:11:57,010 --> 02:11:58,560
this, no, not to override this.

1940
02:11:58,560 --> 02:12:01,560
we can still require the
inclusionary housing number.

1941
02:12:02,185 --> 02:12:04,560
okay, so no state laws that
can override this as of today.

1942
02:12:04,859 --> 02:12:06,735
as of today that I'm
aware of, no, that's correct.

1943
02:12:06,760 --> 02:12:08,560
okay, no tell them what to do
tomorrow, but okay, thank you.

1944
02:12:08,560 --> 02:12:11,560
I thought my question's correct.

1945
02:12:11,560 --> 02:12:13,560
councillor, I'm just waiting.

1946
02:12:14,260 --> 02:12:15,560
thank you, mayor.

1947
02:12:15,560 --> 02:12:18,801
thank you, mayor. My
question is, how do the proposed

1948
02:12:18,814 --> 02:12:22,560
requirements compare specifically
with our neighboring cities

1949
02:12:23,060 --> 02:12:26,560
when we're competing for
the same development capital?

1950
02:12:28,659 --> 02:12:31,097
so I can say that when
we drafted this ordinance,

1951
02:12:31,109 --> 02:12:33,560
it's very comparable to
some of the other cities.

1952
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:37,105
it's modeled very closely
after the city of mission vehicles,

1953
02:12:37,118 --> 02:12:40,560
which was recently tested
with their vista dellogo project.

1954
02:12:40,609 --> 02:12:44,073
so the whole point was to not
necessarily create an ordinance that

1955
02:12:44,085 --> 02:12:47,560
wouldn't be consistent with the
framework from surrounding cities.

1956
02:12:47,560 --> 02:12:48,560
okay, thank you.

1957
02:12:51,609 --> 02:12:55,632
and do we know the estimated
annual administrative cost to the city

1958
02:12:55,645 --> 02:13:00,560
for compliance monitoring, income
certification, resale controls, all that stuff?

1959
02:13:00,859 --> 02:13:04,560
like, what is the cost of the city
having to take on this burden?

1960
02:13:05,560 --> 02:13:09,574
so that would be the next step is to
go through and conduct an rfp for an

1961
02:13:09,587 --> 02:13:13,560
affordable housing consultant to
better assess what that value would be.

1962
02:13:13,760 --> 02:13:15,560
so at this time, I do not know.

1963
02:13:15,859 --> 02:13:18,744
other than potentially checking
with other cities to find out

1964
02:13:18,756 --> 02:13:21,560
what their affordable housing
consultant has been charging.

1965
02:13:21,560 --> 02:13:22,560
gotcha.

1966
02:13:25,510 --> 02:13:29,257
last question is, why is a five-year
comprehensive fee review sufficient

1967
02:13:29,270 --> 02:13:32,560
in a market that can change
significantly within a year or two?

1968
02:13:38,560 --> 02:13:42,547
what I've recommended is that you use
an annual index to increase or decrease the

1969
02:13:42,560 --> 02:13:46,560
fee based on the changes in values and
then to do a full review every five years.

1970
02:13:46,784 --> 02:13:52,560
the only reason for that is cities tend not
to do any adjustments after they make one.

1971
02:13:52,560 --> 02:13:56,220
and so having that automatic
annual, either increase or decrease

1972
02:13:56,231 --> 02:13:59,560
based on market on a very
simple measure, tends to happen.

1973
02:13:59,659 --> 02:14:03,560
but then I suggest that it does need
to periodically in five years isn't magic.

1974
02:14:04,109 --> 02:14:07,100
you could do it in seven years or
ten years or I've had jurisdictions,

1975
02:14:07,113 --> 02:14:09,560
especially when they're just
adopting for the first time.

1976
02:14:09,909 --> 02:14:13,047
to say we're going to look at it
in three years and see whether

1977
02:14:13,060 --> 02:14:16,560
development is stopped entirely or
whether development is going crazy.

1978
02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:18,560
and then we'll readjust then.

1979
02:14:18,560 --> 02:14:22,560
so you're not found by it.
These are just recommended parameters.

1980
02:14:23,635 --> 02:14:24,560
gotcha. Okay. Thank you.

1981
02:14:24,560 --> 02:14:25,560
you're welcome.

1982
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:29,483
all right. I'm going to turn to
council member pazold in case

1983
02:14:29,494 --> 02:14:33,560
you had any questions for
clarification as you wanted to staff.

1984
02:14:33,960 --> 02:14:38,560
yeah. So the item.

1985
02:14:46,560 --> 02:14:50,524
so basically this item is requesting
essentially that if they can't satisfy or that

1986
02:14:50,536 --> 02:14:54,560
they can pay into a way to reduce the amount
of low income housing. Is that correct?

1987
02:15:01,810 --> 02:15:03,860
so the intent of the in lieu
fee is that instead of providing

1988
02:15:03,860 --> 02:15:05,944
the affordable units, they
could pay that in lieu fee instead,

1989
02:15:05,956 --> 02:15:07,978
whether it's for the full amount
of affordable units or they

1990
02:15:07,978 --> 02:15:10,136
can do potentially a partial and
then have to pay the remaining.

1991
02:15:10,159 --> 02:15:12,560
for whatever units that
they're missing based on that.

1992
02:15:19,560 --> 02:15:23,547
so my question is, how does it well,
basically if a developer if you have a very

1993
02:15:23,560 --> 02:15:27,560
wealthy developer, they could essentially
pay the cost versus another developer.

1994
02:15:29,560 --> 02:15:33,622
and so how does this help
when you have developers with

1995
02:15:33,634 --> 02:15:37,560
deeper pockets that can
just pay their way out of it?

1996
02:15:38,560 --> 02:15:42,297
the notion is the way the
requirement is set up is that it's

1997
02:15:42,310 --> 02:15:46,560
equivalent to either pay the fee
or to produce the affordable units.

1998
02:15:50,560 --> 02:15:52,510
and so the notion would
be a developer would

1999
02:15:52,510 --> 02:15:54,372
likely choose to pay
the fee when they can

2000
02:15:54,384 --> 02:15:56,516
because it provides them
certainty and then they

2001
02:15:56,516 --> 02:15:58,560
get all the upside
potential on all the units.

2002
02:16:03,010 --> 02:16:05,122
but the math is it should
be equivalent and that's

2003
02:16:05,122 --> 02:16:06,981
the notion is that's
the whole affordability

2004
02:16:06,993 --> 02:16:10,560
gap of providing the affordable units required
by the inclusionary housing ordinance.

2005
02:16:21,260 --> 02:16:24,876
so it should not make a difference. But what
I will say is there are options that make

2006
02:16:24,887 --> 02:16:26,638
it more appealing to
develop and the most

2007
02:16:26,638 --> 02:16:28,560
notable one would be
the state density bonds.

2008
02:16:34,558 --> 02:16:42,558
and then I'll be able to build what I
want because I can essentially ignore that.

2009
02:16:52,859 --> 02:16:55,683
so the in lieu fees did not take
into the developers, I think we could

2010
02:16:55,683 --> 02:16:58,468
say budget or whether or not
they're a wealthy developer or not. This

2011
02:16:58,479 --> 02:17:01,229
in lieu fee was established to
create a little more of a predictable

2012
02:17:01,229 --> 02:17:03,978
and level playing field regardless
of the capacity of the developer.

2013
02:17:07,558 --> 02:17:10,223
so the intent with the affordability
gap is that this would be the

2014
02:17:10,223 --> 02:17:12,846
true cost of whether or not they
provide that unit. So if they do

2015
02:17:12,859 --> 02:17:15,569
not decide to include the
inclusionary unit into their development,

2016
02:17:15,569 --> 02:17:18,199
they would pay the equivalent
for what that cost was to the city.

2017
02:17:21,558 --> 02:17:23,451
so there necessarily
isn't an advantage to

2018
02:17:23,451 --> 02:17:25,524
whether they build it
or pay the fee. Yes, but

2019
02:17:25,537 --> 02:17:27,435
the objective of this,
the objective is to

2020
02:17:27,435 --> 02:17:29,558
make sure that the low
income housing is built.

2021
02:17:36,609 --> 02:17:39,234
so this is a way for to have an
inclusionary ordinance. It's just

2022
02:17:39,234 --> 02:17:41,698
a way to get more money if
somebody wants to just override it

2023
02:17:41,709 --> 02:17:44,219
and then we're back to square
one, which is we have to rezone,

2024
02:17:44,219 --> 02:17:46,728
but we have more money in our
pocket, the city has more money.

2025
02:17:53,558 --> 02:17:57,582
and so that's what I am very
concerned about is that we're

2026
02:17:57,593 --> 02:18:01,558
just essentially charging a
fee and we are no better off.

2027
02:18:12,808 --> 02:18:15,513
sorry. And terms rhna. I mean,
so if our objective is to make sure

2028
02:18:15,513 --> 02:18:18,137
that each city and we don't
continuously have these rhna numbers

2029
02:18:18,148 --> 02:18:20,778
pop up and that we have to keep
bringing low income housing and a

2030
02:18:20,778 --> 02:18:23,488
developer comes in with deeper
pockets, they can just pay that off.

2031
02:18:39,584 --> 02:18:42,088
so I'm concerned that we are
no better if you have a wealthier

2032
02:18:42,088 --> 02:18:44,552
developer and then another
question that I have is basically,

2033
02:18:44,565 --> 02:18:47,075
what about the past projects
that have already been zoned will

2034
02:18:47,075 --> 02:18:49,463
this retro active and also,
okay, if it's not retro active,

2035
02:18:58,558 --> 02:19:00,823
what if a developer comes
in that has already been given

2036
02:19:00,823 --> 02:19:03,047
entitlements with this trigger
if they come in for more

2037
02:19:03,058 --> 02:19:05,448
entitlements, they change
their plans with this trigger and

2038
02:19:05,448 --> 02:19:07,959
make it so they have to be
follow this inclusionary ordinance.

2039
02:19:11,558 --> 02:19:19,558
so with the first question, the first
question with the approved projects.

2040
02:19:19,559 --> 02:19:23,015
so one, I guess the one
that I can answer is that this

2041
02:19:23,028 --> 02:19:26,558
would not apply retroactively
to any approved projects.

2042
02:19:26,559 --> 02:19:30,180
however, if a major modification
were to come forward and they submit

2043
02:19:30,191 --> 02:19:33,558
a new application, the inclusionary
housing program would apply.

2044
02:19:35,584 --> 02:19:39,355
with inclusionary housing as just
developers paint out the fee, affordable

2045
02:19:39,368 --> 02:19:43,558
housing and inclusionary housing isn't
necessarily intended just to satisfy rhna.

2046
02:19:44,984 --> 02:19:48,786
it is to provide a revenue stream
if in if in luffy's are paid where the

2047
02:19:48,798 --> 02:19:52,559
city can further perpetuate affordable
housing programs or obligations.

2048
02:20:03,658 --> 02:20:06,163
for example, if one community there
55 year sunset was coming up and the

2049
02:20:06,163 --> 02:20:09,015
affordable agreement would be no longer
applicable, the city could potentially use

2050
02:20:09,028 --> 02:20:11,747
those funds to encourage the property
owner to maintain affordable housing for

2051
02:20:11,747 --> 02:20:14,536
even a longer period of time, so necessarily
would it become a market rate unit.

2052
02:20:14,559 --> 02:20:18,476
there's other things that could also provide
assistance on affordable housing like

2053
02:20:18,487 --> 02:20:22,559
first time home buyer loans, other incentives
or rebates to encourage home ownership.

2054
02:20:24,709 --> 02:20:28,550
okay, so this really is only
for developers that don't

2055
02:20:28,563 --> 02:20:32,559
have a deep enough pockets
to pay their way out of this.

2056
02:20:38,559 --> 02:20:42,548
it doesn't assist entirely with
affordability and low income if that is our

2057
02:20:42,559 --> 02:20:46,559
goal and objective is to make sure
that we can not continuously have rhna.

2058
02:20:46,959 --> 02:20:49,559
so, okay, thank you.

2059
02:20:52,609 --> 02:20:56,509
I don't really have any other
questions or clarification, so I

2060
02:20:56,521 --> 02:21:00,559
do want to point out that and
staff can correct me if I'm wrong.

2061
02:21:12,308 --> 02:21:14,733
these in lieu of fees, if
that's the direction it goes, it's

2062
02:21:14,733 --> 02:21:17,237
not going into the city general
fund, is going into a specific

2063
02:21:17,250 --> 02:21:19,599
account that is really meant
to make the ability to create

2064
02:21:19,599 --> 02:21:21,988
the units that the developer
doesn't want to put in happen.

2065
02:21:22,559 --> 02:21:24,627
okay, and we're going
to give you all the details

2066
02:21:24,627 --> 02:21:26,527
and all the rest of
that, but it isn't just a

2067
02:21:26,539 --> 02:21:28,528
simple buy your way out
and the city, you know,

2068
02:21:28,528 --> 02:21:30,559
it goes and uses it on
cross rocks or something.

2069
02:21:31,908 --> 02:21:35,721
it's meant, it is meant
and set aside for affordable

2070
02:21:35,734 --> 02:21:39,559
housing, so that's my
clarification, not a question.

2071
02:21:39,609 --> 02:21:42,559
I need you to clarify that
because I don't understand that.

2072
02:21:47,859 --> 02:21:50,244
if we have to speak to it.
Okay, yeah, if we get the money,

2073
02:21:50,244 --> 02:21:52,507
so it was to buy their way
out, and we get, you know, to

2074
02:21:52,520 --> 02:21:54,789
take five and a half million
dollars, what do we do with

2075
02:21:54,789 --> 02:21:57,099
that, doesn't it go to our
general fund, what does it go?

2076
02:22:05,559 --> 02:22:07,642
by going into an inclusionary
housing fund, it would be earmarked for

2077
02:22:07,642 --> 02:22:09,754
the city to use to further affordable
housing in the city. The in lieu

2078
02:22:09,766 --> 02:22:11,855
fee would not be necessarily used
to improve a park. So it would have

2079
02:22:11,855 --> 02:22:14,034
to be, there had to be a nexus on
what the city would use the money for.

2080
02:22:14,058 --> 02:22:17,559
and the ultimate goal furthering
affordable housing within the city.

2081
02:22:18,959 --> 02:22:20,633
okay, I still don't
hear my answer to my

2082
02:22:20,633 --> 02:22:22,684
question, what does the
money be used for? Do you

2083
02:22:22,697 --> 02:22:24,544
give it out to people
that buy the house and

2084
02:22:24,544 --> 02:22:26,559
they can't afford it or
where's the money go to?

2085
02:22:27,559 --> 02:22:31,402
we would develop a program
system that would dedicate, I guess the

2086
02:22:31,414 --> 02:22:35,559
city council could decide necessarily
what would constitute acceptable.

2087
02:22:35,609 --> 02:22:39,115
so some of the things that the inclusionary
housing fund could be used for would

2088
02:22:39,128 --> 02:22:42,559
be the acquisition of property to assist
with an affordable housing developer.

2089
02:22:49,634 --> 02:22:51,786
we could assist with the cost of
construction of affordable housing,

2090
02:22:51,786 --> 02:22:53,844
affordable housing rehabilitation,
development assistance, rental

2091
02:22:53,856 --> 02:22:55,921
assistance programs, first time
home buyer assistance, as well as

2092
02:22:55,921 --> 02:22:57,985
the administration and monitoring
of affordable housing programs.

2093
02:22:58,009 --> 02:23:02,559
but right now the way this is written, we
just collect the money and we have no plan.

2094
02:23:03,559 --> 02:23:07,397
so the staff report calls out, so
there would have to be a clear

2095
02:23:07,408 --> 02:23:11,559
nexus of what the city could use
those inclusionary in lieu fees for.

2096
02:23:11,609 --> 02:23:14,511
so it would be limited to furthering
affordable housing, which includes

2097
02:23:14,522 --> 02:23:17,559
programs that we could develop
similar to the ones that I just referenced.

2098
02:23:17,560 --> 02:23:19,559
when does that plan develop?

2099
02:23:23,559 --> 02:23:27,600
well, if the inclusionary housing program
is adopted, we can begin looking at

2100
02:23:27,611 --> 02:23:31,559
potential programs until we actually
have a development that provides fees.

2101
02:23:35,559 --> 02:23:39,507
it's difficult to necessarily
assess and develop a

2102
02:23:39,520 --> 02:23:43,559
program yet until we know
how much money we can do.

2103
02:23:57,209 --> 02:24:04,559
all right, with that, it is 620 and
I'm going to open a public hearing.

2104
02:24:10,759 --> 02:24:14,405
and, or you're on the phone with
us, the council members can ask you

2105
02:24:14,416 --> 02:24:18,559
questions or clarifications about your
public opinion that you're expressing.

2106
02:24:19,559 --> 02:24:23,611
I'm going to announce that if
you are participating remotely and

2107
02:24:23,622 --> 02:24:27,559
wish to speak regarding this
item, dial star 9 on a telephone.

2108
02:24:27,908 --> 02:24:33,559
and now race that will to us will raise
your hand to indicate you wish to speak.

2109
02:24:33,560 --> 02:24:37,559
you will be identified by the last
four digits of your phone number.

2110
02:24:37,560 --> 02:24:43,559
when you have been recognized to speak,
dial star 9, star 6, excuse me, to unmute.

2111
02:24:43,709 --> 02:24:47,539
so I'm now going to
look to our city clerk for

2112
02:24:47,550 --> 02:24:51,559
any public speakers for
the public hearing item.

2113
02:24:55,158 --> 02:24:58,875
first in favor of and then against
the matter and then online remote

2114
02:24:58,887 --> 02:25:02,559
and finally read off the names of
those who submitted the computer.

2115
02:25:03,009 --> 02:25:04,559
yes, thank you, mr. Mayor.

2116
02:25:05,559 --> 02:25:13,559
the first name is rona henry.

2117
02:25:17,908 --> 02:25:21,528
I'll come back again. I name is rona
henry with welcoming neighbors home.

2118
02:25:21,540 --> 02:25:25,559
we've seen this inclusionary housing,
housing ordinances worked in nearby cities.

2119
02:25:25,560 --> 02:25:28,548
and we believe it can ensure
more affordable housing that

2120
02:25:28,559 --> 02:25:31,559
will be part of future
developments here in laguna hills.

2121
02:25:32,209 --> 02:25:34,649
the proposed ordinance
is a solid proposal.

2122
02:25:34,662 --> 02:25:38,559
it's not the most strict we've
seen, but it's not the easiest either.

2123
02:25:47,109 --> 02:25:50,277
the requirement that 7.4%, 7.5% below
and 7.5% very low income affordable homes

2124
02:25:50,289 --> 02:25:53,509
be required in any new rental housing
over 10 years is a reasonable requirement.

2125
02:25:54,808 --> 02:25:56,469
likewise, the requirement
for 15% for four

2126
02:25:56,469 --> 02:25:58,327
sale homes be affordable
for lower and moderate

2127
02:25:58,340 --> 02:26:01,635
income households seems appropriate considering
market conditions since I'll go see.

2128
02:26:01,658 --> 02:26:05,542
the in-loop fee scheduled recommended
by keyser marston associate seems

2129
02:26:05,555 --> 02:26:09,559
feasible and we'd like to see it
incorporated into the housing ordinance.

2130
02:26:10,209 --> 02:26:12,595
would I like the
required percentage of

2131
02:26:12,608 --> 02:26:15,559
affordable housing to
be higher? Yes, of course.

2132
02:26:15,709 --> 02:26:19,152
but my research has revealed
that 15% has been found to be

2133
02:26:19,164 --> 02:26:22,559
economically feasible when
no other supports are offered.

2134
02:26:24,559 --> 02:26:28,691
as I understand it, the higher
percentage could be perceived as of being

2135
02:26:28,702 --> 02:26:32,559
a disincentive to housing if it's
more than 15% or about 15 or 20%.

2136
02:26:37,209 --> 02:26:40,577
so until laguna hills, the county, the
state, the federal government or philanthropy

2137
02:26:40,590 --> 02:26:43,849
is ready to offer funding for land or
land to build even more affordable housing.

2138
02:26:44,158 --> 02:26:46,235
this inclusionary housing ordinance
is a step in the right direction.

2139
02:26:46,259 --> 02:26:49,870
for too long, too many cities in
orange county have been case studies

2140
02:26:49,882 --> 02:26:53,559
for missed opportunities when it
comes to building affordable housing.

2141
02:26:54,058 --> 02:26:56,727
too many housing developments
have been permitted without

2142
02:26:56,738 --> 02:26:59,559
requiring a fair share of
affordable housing to be included.

2143
02:27:00,559 --> 02:27:04,786
this ordinance will help laguna hills
meet its regional housing needs assessment

2144
02:27:04,798 --> 02:27:08,559
goals for lower income homes as
similar audiences have in other cities.

2145
02:27:09,058 --> 02:27:12,218
and most importantly, provide
much needed affordable housing

2146
02:27:12,229 --> 02:27:15,559
options for working households
and our cities retire community.

2147
02:27:15,560 --> 02:27:17,559
thank you for your time.

2148
02:27:17,658 --> 02:27:21,559
I have a question from dave wheeler.

2149
02:27:21,908 --> 02:27:25,559
okay, you just said that
these are reasonable numbers.

2150
02:27:25,609 --> 02:27:29,755
if that's so, why aren't you
petitioning and why aren't you marching

2151
02:27:29,768 --> 02:27:33,559
on sacramento to tell them to
make that the requirement on us?

2152
02:27:33,759 --> 02:27:38,559
well, the 15% as I understand
it is what hcd will allow.

2153
02:27:38,560 --> 02:27:40,559
so I think that's already been done.

2154
02:27:40,759 --> 02:27:42,679
no, I'm saying, but
they're requiring 65% on us.

2155
02:27:42,908 --> 02:27:45,559
aren't you petitioning a city
if you think that's reasonable?

2156
02:27:45,560 --> 02:27:46,800
oh, there's a different things.

2157
02:27:46,908 --> 02:27:48,559
and I'm not the best
person to explain it to you.

2158
02:27:48,560 --> 02:27:52,559
I think stays our cooper ruby's can
do it much better job explaining to it.

2159
02:27:53,009 --> 02:27:57,559
but I feel I know it, but not
well enough to explain it to you.

2160
02:27:57,560 --> 02:27:59,559
okay, anything else?

2161
02:27:59,560 --> 02:28:00,560
yeah, that's fine.

2162
02:28:00,908 --> 02:28:02,559
that really wasn't a question.

2163
02:28:03,158 --> 02:28:05,559
yeah, but we took a little over there.

2164
02:28:05,560 --> 02:28:06,560
okay, thank you.

2165
02:28:06,709 --> 02:28:08,559
yes, fair enough.

2166
02:28:08,584 --> 02:28:10,559
all right, our next figure.

2167
02:28:10,609 --> 02:28:12,559
rudy with no last name given?

2168
02:28:21,584 --> 02:28:23,502
well, once again, I want
to commend the city for

2169
02:28:23,502 --> 02:28:25,579
your continued effort to
look in a holistic approach

2170
02:28:25,592 --> 02:28:27,596
as to how to go for the
ability to really identify

2171
02:28:27,596 --> 02:28:29,559
insights where you can
meet your re-nobligations.

2172
02:28:29,560 --> 02:28:34,559
I think the inclusionary ordinance is a
great way to meet these re-nobligations.

2173
02:28:34,683 --> 02:28:42,559
so we're in favor of the proposed ordinance
at the 7.5, 7.5, 15% inclusionary.

2174
02:28:42,609 --> 02:28:47,559
we are in favor of the
kma in luffy schedule.

2175
02:28:49,584 --> 02:28:53,474
I also want to kind of go over one
of the comments council member we

2176
02:28:53,486 --> 02:28:57,559
learned made about housing affordability
only solving 30% of a problem.

2177
02:29:02,559 --> 02:29:06,477
I think what you're referring to is the
definition of what housing affordability is,

2178
02:29:06,488 --> 02:29:08,619
which is that 30% of a
person's income should

2179
02:29:08,619 --> 02:29:10,559
not be spent on housing
or more than 30%.

2180
02:29:14,859 --> 02:29:18,674
the purpose of the standard is really to
prevent housing costs from consuming so much

2181
02:29:18,686 --> 02:29:22,559
income that a person cannot spend on other
issues like utilities, basic needs, health.

2182
02:29:22,834 --> 02:29:25,590
so that's really where this
percentage comes from and it's

2183
02:29:25,602 --> 02:29:28,559
not that we're putting them in
places where they can't afford.

2184
02:29:30,759 --> 02:29:34,793
it's not that we're opening
opportunities for folks to live in places

2185
02:29:34,806 --> 02:29:38,559
where they're open to dignified
and equitable places to live in.

2186
02:29:45,559 --> 02:29:49,490
to recalculate that the area median
income for orange county says that

2187
02:29:49,503 --> 02:29:53,559
low income household for a family
of four is considered to make 148,850.

2188
02:29:58,709 --> 02:30:02,566
30% of somebody that family can
spend up to $3,721 and they're rent so

2189
02:30:02,578 --> 02:30:06,559
we are recognizing that orange
county is a very expensive place to live.

2190
02:30:09,634 --> 02:30:11,698
a lot of families don't
make that and they're still

2191
02:30:11,698 --> 02:30:13,722
categorize low income
so our hope is that policies

2192
02:30:13,735 --> 02:30:15,562
like this can create
better opportunities for

2193
02:30:15,562 --> 02:30:17,674
families in orange county
to meet that housing need.

2194
02:30:22,559 --> 02:30:26,522
the 2025 apr which was released early
spring around march april shows up the city

2195
02:30:26,534 --> 02:30:30,559
of laguna hills has not been producing
much units for the lower income categories.

2196
02:30:38,808 --> 02:30:41,231
I saw in the presentation in
september you all did approve a

2197
02:30:41,231 --> 02:30:43,936
couple more, but we believe that
this ordinance would create a more

2198
02:30:43,949 --> 02:30:46,659
robust solution to housing
affordability here and can prevent maybe

2199
02:30:46,659 --> 02:30:49,289
like you all mentioned sacrificing
properties or commercial area.

2200
02:30:52,209 --> 02:30:54,051
commercial areas in
the future to meet these

2201
02:30:54,051 --> 02:30:55,809
needs and potential
net loss in the future

2202
02:30:55,822 --> 02:30:57,879
by providing a more
appropriate way to addressing

2203
02:30:57,879 --> 02:30:59,559
the lower income
categories in the city.

2204
02:30:59,560 --> 02:31:01,559
thank you.

2205
02:31:01,560 --> 02:31:05,559
any questions there? Dave.

2206
02:31:10,908 --> 02:31:17,559
you have any questions? You don't.
All right, next speaker. Thank you.

2207
02:31:17,560 --> 02:31:19,559
marcelo lawson.

2208
02:31:20,559 --> 02:31:22,598
thank you, mayor and
city council. My name is

2209
02:31:22,598 --> 02:31:24,682
marcelo lawson. I'm a
homeowner here in laguna

2210
02:31:24,693 --> 02:31:28,559
hills and I'm here to urge you to support
the proposed inclusionary housing ordinance.

2211
02:31:29,408 --> 02:31:31,584
I'm very concerned about
ensuring that sufficient

2212
02:31:31,595 --> 02:31:33,559
affordable housing
is available in our city.

2213
02:31:37,559 --> 02:31:39,380
I have two young
children as do many of my

2214
02:31:39,380 --> 02:31:41,548
friends. Sorry, young
adult children as do many of

2215
02:31:41,559 --> 02:31:43,516
my friends and it's
frustrating to sit by and

2216
02:31:43,516 --> 02:31:45,559
watch them struggle to
find affordable housing.

2217
02:31:47,009 --> 02:31:50,846
I also volunteer at several capacities
where I see neighbors who navigate food

2218
02:31:50,859 --> 02:31:54,559
insecurity, housing insecurity,
financial insecurity and health insecurity.

2219
02:31:55,359 --> 02:31:58,918
the high cost of housing in
our area makes it very challenging

2220
02:31:58,931 --> 02:32:02,559
for families to maintain stable
housing and afford basic needs.

2221
02:32:02,658 --> 02:32:05,939
we're all better off when
young people, families and

2222
02:32:05,950 --> 02:32:09,559
seniors in our community
can thrive rather than struggle.

2223
02:32:09,959 --> 02:32:13,166
passing this inclusionary
housing ordinance will help ensure

2224
02:32:13,179 --> 02:32:16,559
that the needed affordable
housing units are actually produced.

2225
02:32:16,658 --> 02:32:20,182
rather than having a disappointing
outcome that we had with the

2226
02:32:20,193 --> 02:32:23,559
theravita project were only
5% of the units were affordable.

2227
02:32:28,209 --> 02:32:30,008
having this ordinance in
place, everyone will know what

2228
02:32:30,008 --> 02:32:31,840
to expect. Developers will
know what's required of them,

2229
02:32:31,852 --> 02:32:33,656
the city can count on meeting
their rent goals, and the

2230
02:32:33,656 --> 02:32:35,559
community will know that
affordable housing is on the way.

2231
02:32:35,560 --> 02:32:37,961
we know that additional
affordable housing

2232
02:32:37,974 --> 02:32:40,559
is needed to meet the
needs in our community.

2233
02:32:43,359 --> 02:32:46,432
let's make sure it's done
efficiently. Irvine and mission b.a.

2234
02:32:46,443 --> 02:32:50,559
ho have done this and it's working there.
Let's do it here in laguna hills as well.

2235
02:32:51,609 --> 02:32:55,671
I urge the council to pass the ordinance
now so that all future housing development

2236
02:32:55,683 --> 02:32:59,559
projects in our city will include an
appropriate portion of affordable housing.

2237
02:33:20,559 --> 02:33:23,409
thank you. Just a clarification.

2238
02:33:23,422 --> 02:33:28,559
you said theravita was 5%?
My understanding was a zero.

2239
02:33:28,808 --> 02:33:31,559
thank you.

2240
02:33:31,908 --> 02:33:37,559
>> cesar koper-rubius.

2241
02:33:45,359 --> 02:33:48,261
>> good evening
mayor, council members.

2242
02:33:48,272 --> 02:33:51,559
we're here to support
the proposal by staff.

2243
02:33:58,259 --> 02:34:01,918
I want to recognize the hard work that's
gone into this. It's a project that started

2244
02:34:01,931 --> 02:34:05,559
with your fifth cycle in looking at what
progress was developed in the fifth cycle.

2245
02:34:05,560 --> 02:34:08,962
and looking at policies and
programs or the lack of progress

2246
02:34:08,975 --> 02:34:12,559
that happened because of those
policies that were not in there.

2247
02:34:18,559 --> 02:34:20,704
and this is a recognition,
I think, from city and the

2248
02:34:20,704 --> 02:34:22,727
staff that there needs to
be policies and programs

2249
02:34:22,739 --> 02:34:24,728
along with land use that
are going to produce the

2250
02:34:24,728 --> 02:34:26,879
incomes, pardon me, the
outcomes that you would want.

2251
02:34:35,559 --> 02:34:38,223
so, in hiring the consultant like
keyser marston, who's doing this

2252
02:34:38,223 --> 02:34:40,887
work statewide and is recognized
as a leader in this area, I think

2253
02:34:40,898 --> 02:34:43,608
you're getting the best advice
that you can get, the best analysis,

2254
02:34:43,608 --> 02:34:46,440
and try to improve the analysis
that's working in other jurisdictions.

2255
02:34:50,709 --> 02:34:52,822
where this is happening,
where this opportunity

2256
02:34:52,822 --> 02:34:54,666
is happening in
sondana, and other cities

2257
02:34:54,679 --> 02:34:56,664
in orange county, and
many across the state.

2258
02:34:56,664 --> 02:34:58,559
so, I do want to urge
you to approve this.

2259
02:34:58,560 --> 02:35:01,779
I would also mention
that. This is also an

2260
02:35:01,790 --> 02:35:05,559
opportunity to address
what we discussed earlier.

2261
02:35:11,459 --> 02:35:13,643
the shortfalls on these
sites will happen if you don't

2262
02:35:13,643 --> 02:35:15,787
have a policy or a program
in place. And I think this

2263
02:35:15,799 --> 02:35:17,907
is a good opportunity to
address that along with the

2264
02:35:17,907 --> 02:35:20,259
commitments that you already
made in the housing elements.

2265
02:35:25,559 --> 02:35:28,088
so, thank you for the opportunity
to be here and thank you also for

2266
02:35:28,088 --> 02:35:30,617
working on this. I know it's not
an easy decision, but I think it's

2267
02:35:30,629 --> 02:35:33,315
the right decision to make at this
point where you have the opportunity

2268
02:35:33,315 --> 02:35:35,584
to create housing for all
income segments, not just a hiring

2269
02:35:35,609 --> 02:35:39,546
community, to redefine what affordable
housing is. We talk about extremely

2270
02:35:39,558 --> 02:35:43,559
low, very longer time about families
making 30,000, all the way to 148,000.

2271
02:35:44,559 --> 02:35:48,548
most are working families in your
community who deserve the opportunity to

2272
02:35:48,559 --> 02:35:52,559
live here and thrive here in your
community. So, thank you for doing that.

2273
02:36:03,158 --> 02:36:06,675
>> thank you, susan. Next, I
don't see anybody questions.

2274
02:36:06,688 --> 02:36:08,559
go ahead. >> kathy, you don't?

2275
02:36:12,384 --> 02:36:16,430
>> I think two tall for me. I'm
going to do with this short one.

2276
02:36:16,441 --> 02:36:19,559
hi, everybody. Mayor,
pro tem, and everyone else.

2277
02:36:21,559 --> 02:36:25,245
I love you guys. You guys
have been rocking it so far.

2278
02:36:25,256 --> 02:36:29,559
I'm here to support the inclusionary
housing product ordinance.

2279
02:36:33,658 --> 02:36:37,574
and one of the things that I heard over
there and I just want clarification on, so

2280
02:36:37,585 --> 02:36:41,559
the previous projects that have been approved
already are not under this ordinance.

2281
02:36:43,808 --> 02:36:47,444
>> I don't believe so.
>> and did we not do this

2282
02:36:47,457 --> 02:36:51,559
ordinance earlier in order
to get them to stay around?

2283
02:36:55,609 --> 02:36:58,989
it just seems to me because
they're much bigger that they have

2284
02:36:59,002 --> 02:37:02,559
the capacity to have helped bring
down the numbers that you need.

2285
02:37:04,709 --> 02:37:08,472
>> I'm just clarifying. >> you're
basically saying something in

2286
02:37:08,485 --> 02:37:12,559
hindsight that we're looking back
and why didn't we do this earlier?

2287
02:37:14,609 --> 02:37:19,391
>> it is basically, yeah. I definitely
think that it's a good idea to do this.

2288
02:37:19,404 --> 02:37:22,559
I'm just, why didn't we
do it a little bit earlier?

2289
02:37:22,783 --> 02:37:26,659
>> I can't really comment
on that other than the fact it

2290
02:37:26,672 --> 02:37:30,559
wasn't to gain favor or do
anything special for anybody.

2291
02:37:34,559 --> 02:37:38,646
>> yeah, and I know that some of the concern
has always been that when you put some

2292
02:37:38,657 --> 02:37:42,559
sort of limitations on people or that
they may or may not choose to build here.

2293
02:37:42,709 --> 02:37:46,289
and yet we know from irvine
and how they got something

2294
02:37:46,300 --> 02:37:49,559
like 4000 low income and
very low income housing.

2295
02:37:49,709 --> 02:37:53,542
now they've been building like crazy
because they've got a lot of extra land.

2296
02:37:53,555 --> 02:37:56,559
so that's one of our problems
is we don't have lots of land.

2297
02:37:58,609 --> 02:38:02,072
so I'm hoping, and I missed the first part
of this so I don't know where some of those

2298
02:38:02,084 --> 02:38:05,559
areas where I know you guys sent out a map
last week when it came out with the things.

2299
02:38:05,609 --> 02:38:09,537
so I know it was like little
small areas because we just

2300
02:38:09,549 --> 02:38:13,559
don't have big spaces of land
anymore, which is a bummer.

2301
02:38:21,209 --> 02:38:27,559
so basically just, yes. Yes. >> hang
on there. >> I've got any questions or?

2302
02:38:27,560 --> 02:38:31,559
>> I will actually comment on
that last little piece. >> what?

2303
02:38:32,058 --> 02:38:33,834
>> I'm going to comment on
that last little piece. >> okay.

2304
02:38:33,859 --> 02:38:38,559
>> so stay tuned. To say that a city doesn't
have any land is not really the truth.

2305
02:38:38,560 --> 02:38:43,559
and I'm just going to give you
an analogy and leave it at that.

2306
02:38:43,959 --> 02:38:48,559
you know, this city is about I think
six square miles or something like that.

2307
02:38:48,560 --> 02:38:54,559
we don't have a lot of fallow land
that is ready to be developed on.

2308
02:38:54,560 --> 02:38:58,559
we have land that already
has developments on it.

2309
02:38:59,209 --> 02:39:02,559
and so does paris and rome and london.

2310
02:39:02,560 --> 02:39:06,083
that doesn't mean that
the city doesn't change and

2311
02:39:06,094 --> 02:39:09,559
morph and do things over
hundreds of years, okay?

2312
02:39:09,560 --> 02:39:12,559
we're 35 years old about.

2313
02:39:12,959 --> 02:39:15,433
so, but I agree it makes
things more expensive.

2314
02:39:15,444 --> 02:39:17,559
now you're going to
tear something down.

2315
02:39:18,658 --> 02:39:19,559
you're going to, you
know, all that kind of thing.

2316
02:39:19,560 --> 02:39:22,104
but do you need to
understand, you know, that

2317
02:39:22,117 --> 02:39:24,559
is an impact if you're
over in lake forest.

2318
02:39:24,759 --> 02:39:28,209
and you've got hillsides
full of land that you could do

2319
02:39:28,221 --> 02:39:31,559
stuff, you know, it's a lot
easier to do these things

2320
02:39:32,009 --> 02:39:35,772
because you're starting with
roger, a much of which, a lot

2321
02:39:35,783 --> 02:39:39,559
of, of which in some cases
was actually owned by the city.

2322
02:39:40,359 --> 02:39:41,559
a little different scenario.

2323
02:39:41,709 --> 02:39:44,561
so I'm just giving you
a little bit of feedback

2324
02:39:44,574 --> 02:39:47,559
that it's not quite as
simple as you might think.

2325
02:39:47,759 --> 02:39:49,559
okay, next speaker.

2326
02:39:49,959 --> 02:39:51,559
anna gromis.

2327
02:40:00,959 --> 02:40:02,731
good evening. I
apologize. I was in a hurry.

2328
02:40:02,744 --> 02:40:05,359
last time I gave public comment
and I failed to introduce myself.

2329
02:40:08,558 --> 02:40:09,523
anna gromis here representing
the building industry association

2330
02:40:09,536 --> 02:40:10,559
of southern california and
specifically the orange county chapter.

2331
02:40:10,560 --> 02:40:12,559
thank you for having me.

2332
02:40:12,609 --> 02:40:15,559
we submitted a letter in
opposition to this ordinance today.

2333
02:40:15,560 --> 02:40:17,559
I hope you had a chance to review it.

2334
02:40:18,308 --> 02:40:21,492
we did it in partnership with a
number of coalitions across different

2335
02:40:21,504 --> 02:40:24,559
industries that also share that
there are concerns regarding this.

2336
02:40:25,959 --> 02:40:29,559
and I just want to highlight just a couple
of things that we have concerns with.

2337
02:40:30,158 --> 02:40:33,920
but the bottom line is we would like
to respectfully request for a continuance

2338
02:40:33,932 --> 02:40:37,559
so that we have time to meet with
staff and to discuss this in more detail.

2339
02:40:37,734 --> 02:40:43,559
I was notified about this on monday, which
is just not adequate time. Yes, me too.

2340
02:40:43,759 --> 02:40:45,602
unfortunately, it's
just not adequate time

2341
02:40:45,614 --> 02:40:47,559
to really be able to
meet with our builders.

2342
02:40:48,609 --> 02:40:52,890
have their team assessed the fees, the
methodologies, the study, the feasibility,

2343
02:40:52,903 --> 02:40:56,559
and so respectfully we would
request more time to be able to do that.

2344
02:40:59,359 --> 02:41:02,885
we mentioned in the letter there's a recent
uci study that goes into detail as to why

2345
02:41:02,897 --> 02:41:04,665
inclusionary zoning is
not working and how

2346
02:41:04,665 --> 02:41:06,559
it actually adds to the
cost of construction.

2347
02:41:11,058 --> 02:41:13,203
and I also want to draw
your attention to the city of

2348
02:41:13,203 --> 02:41:15,388
san francisco just last month
and july voted to reduce

2349
02:41:15,399 --> 02:41:17,468
their inclusionary requirement
from 15% by percent,

2350
02:41:17,468 --> 02:41:19,699
because they realize that no
development was happening.

2351
02:41:20,959 --> 02:41:23,653
the fees were too high and
the burden on construction was

2352
02:41:23,665 --> 02:41:26,559
just too great and so it stopped
all development in the city.

2353
02:41:31,234 --> 02:41:32,663
we actually have a review
process of every three

2354
02:41:32,663 --> 02:41:33,972
years on every five
years. So it was a three

2355
02:41:33,985 --> 02:41:35,419
year review process. They
realize no development

2356
02:41:35,419 --> 02:41:36,735
is happening. We need
to adjust this number.

2357
02:41:36,759 --> 02:41:39,718
so again, city of laguna hills
has always been a great partner

2358
02:41:39,730 --> 02:41:42,559
and very collaborative with
the bia and we appreciate that.

2359
02:41:42,808 --> 02:41:45,146
we just would respectfully
ask for additional

2360
02:41:45,157 --> 02:41:47,559
time to be able to
discuss further. Thank you.

2361
02:41:50,709 --> 02:41:57,559
next speaker, victor cow.

2362
02:42:00,859 --> 02:42:05,559
good evening, mr. Mayor. Members of
the city council, my name is victor cow.

2363
02:42:08,658 --> 02:42:10,883
and with the california
department association, we have

2364
02:42:10,883 --> 02:42:13,067
over 13,000 member companies
who represent over 70,000

2365
02:42:13,079 --> 02:42:15,148
real estate professionals
in industry, who wouldn't

2366
02:42:15,148 --> 02:42:17,299
operate roughly 2 million
market rate and affordable.

2367
02:42:18,609 --> 02:42:22,272
housing units across the state of california,
apologize for my outburst earlier.

2368
02:42:22,284 --> 02:42:25,559
I thought I was late to the meeting.
I had a step out for a little bit.

2369
02:42:27,209 --> 02:42:30,559
but this issue is so important and
you are so important in this discussion.

2370
02:42:31,559 --> 02:42:35,967
I want to cover a few things in
terms of what the city's obligations are.

2371
02:42:35,978 --> 02:42:39,559
and that's been largely covered
in the previous discussion.

2372
02:42:45,308 --> 02:42:47,333
you're required to zone,
not necessarily to build.

2373
02:42:47,333 --> 02:42:49,316
and what has also been
in this discussion is that

2374
02:42:49,328 --> 02:42:51,479
the inclusionary zoning as
purported by staff and the

2375
02:42:51,479 --> 02:42:53,509
many slides is that it's
a planning tool to build.

2376
02:42:54,559 --> 02:42:58,467
the question is, is that an effective
tool, right? The difference between

2377
02:42:58,478 --> 02:43:02,559
irvine and laguna hills is that they
recently proved more than 10,000 units.

2378
02:43:03,559 --> 02:43:07,854
they have had the capacity to do
so. A large part of that inclusionary

2379
02:43:07,867 --> 02:43:11,559
zoning housing that was done
through development agreements.

2380
02:43:17,609 --> 02:43:19,552
the housing that wasn't
done through development

2381
02:43:19,552 --> 02:43:21,656
agreements were done
through inclusionary zoning fee

2382
02:43:21,668 --> 02:43:23,779
of roughly $14,000, which
begs the question in terms

2383
02:43:23,779 --> 02:43:25,808
of transparency as it
relates to what this fee is.

2384
02:43:33,109 --> 02:43:35,572
meeting, strength criteria,
right? The effective rate, right?

2385
02:43:35,572 --> 02:43:38,197
the rate, the number that you
want to see, right? Do you have the

2386
02:43:38,209 --> 02:43:40,838
conviction that the number that's
presented to you? Do you have a

2387
02:43:40,838 --> 02:43:43,549
conviction in the math that's
presented to you? Can you explain it?

2388
02:43:46,808 --> 02:43:48,740
what we've been able
to arrive is that roughly

2389
02:43:48,740 --> 02:43:50,713
a thousand square foot
to bedroom apartment has

2390
02:43:50,726 --> 02:43:52,706
a fee of roughly $41,000,
right? Much different

2391
02:43:52,706 --> 02:43:54,559
than $14,000 to your
neighbors to the north.

2392
02:44:05,509 --> 02:44:08,718
if we're multiplying the square footage
requirement, which is roughly $41 within

2393
02:44:08,729 --> 02:44:11,869
a thousand square foot apartment, it
would result in a fee of roughly $41,000.

2394
02:44:19,683 --> 02:44:21,116
it's still higher or the requirement
to build on site. It puts you in

2395
02:44:21,116 --> 02:44:22,568
that conundrum of forcing the
question of density. Density has some of

2396
02:44:22,581 --> 02:44:24,122
its upper limits because of different
building materials that are required

2397
02:44:24,122 --> 02:44:25,559
and such. But there's also the
floor in terms of the regulatory fees.

2398
02:44:25,560 --> 02:44:29,289
your fee would be one of the
highest based of what we assessed

2399
02:44:29,300 --> 02:44:32,559
of the appendices that kma
has provided in the county.

2400
02:44:33,509 --> 02:44:37,308
again, do you have a conviction
that your fee is reasonable?

2401
02:44:37,319 --> 02:44:40,559
I don't think there's been
any information as such.

2402
02:44:46,109 --> 02:44:49,356
that's why we'd love to have a continued
discussion with staff in terms of what's

2403
02:44:49,369 --> 02:44:52,629
going to help the city meet its production
goals and also its rhna requirements.

2404
02:44:53,959 --> 02:44:57,559
I think we need more time to be
able to hand that discussion. Thank you.

2405
02:45:02,908 --> 02:45:04,559
just a quick question for you.
That is all the comments I have.

2406
02:45:04,560 --> 02:45:11,559
just a quick question, victor. Just a quick
question. Does that mean you oppose this?

2407
02:45:18,209 --> 02:45:22,559
okay. Okay, dave. I didn't see your light
up on the screen until just after the fact.

2408
02:45:22,658 --> 02:45:24,559
do we have another secret?

2409
02:45:24,759 --> 02:45:28,559
I don't have any more cards for in-person.
Okay, and any on the?

2410
02:45:28,859 --> 02:45:34,559
we have none on mine, none on.
Okay, and you want to read the list.

2411
02:45:40,559 --> 02:45:42,695
please bear with me. In
favor, we have maya dune,

2412
02:45:42,695 --> 02:45:44,656
marjorie gully, jeffrey
gautard, anne kohler,

2413
02:45:44,667 --> 02:45:46,679
eileen munzer, or
munzinger, brenda rodriguez,

2414
02:45:46,679 --> 02:45:48,559
catherine van camp,
lisa young, glen cohen,

2415
02:45:58,609 --> 02:46:00,552
marina hamry, vera
martinez, christine moore and

2416
02:46:00,552 --> 02:46:02,537
nello, judy northrop,
mickey nuzaki, joe pinnich,

2417
02:46:02,549 --> 02:46:04,619
sandra rosencans, marilyn
schroeder, laura shapiro,

2418
02:46:04,619 --> 02:46:06,609
barbara siri, roberta
valdez, erin simmons-shorj,

2419
02:46:28,009 --> 02:46:30,872
anna henry, halla magna, john
mendonka, sandra maliga, patty by taitis,

2420
02:46:30,872 --> 02:46:33,936
marie with no last name given, susan
and david deering, robert henry, sheryl

2421
02:46:33,949 --> 02:46:37,060
hagin, kathy temple, bruce johnson,
debbie sahali, david sahali, ann beltran,

2422
02:46:37,060 --> 02:46:39,888
orcella lawson, celia gunn, pat
davis, denise sledger, susan b. Parks,

2423
02:46:50,559 --> 02:46:53,064
richard sanchez, cindy ashley,
iris anderson, carolyn mcveigh,

2424
02:46:53,064 --> 02:46:55,407
alosoto, rhett kooski, freda
gorlick, suzanne motel, cesar

2425
02:46:55,420 --> 02:46:57,810
kova-rubius, kathy es-fahani,
sheryl starry, alice j, wendy

2426
02:46:57,810 --> 02:47:00,120
washington and sarah weaver,
and an opposed, anna gromis.

2427
02:47:11,109 --> 02:47:13,443
okay, so with that, we will
move on to any other questions

2428
02:47:13,456 --> 02:47:15,559
or clarifications of staff
that anybody up here has.

2429
02:47:22,908 --> 02:47:24,813
okay, then we will close
the public hearing and

2430
02:47:24,813 --> 02:47:26,757
we will now bring her
back to council and public

2431
02:47:26,770 --> 02:47:28,598
agents planning agency
for deliberation and I

2432
02:47:28,598 --> 02:47:30,588
will open it up to the
first one to lit up, dave.

2433
02:47:44,559 --> 02:47:46,442
okay, robert, can I
have my, the next part

2434
02:47:46,442 --> 02:47:48,459
of my, okay, yeah, I did
some homework on the

2435
02:47:48,470 --> 02:47:50,627
inclusion areas to give
an overview of, I guess,

2436
02:47:50,627 --> 02:47:52,559
my vision and I think
it's pretty truthful.

2437
02:47:53,209 --> 02:47:58,559
okay, next slide, please.

2438
02:47:58,959 --> 02:48:02,781
okay, how's the unit increase?
Okay, I put extremely low

2439
02:48:02,793 --> 02:48:06,559
on here because it's defined
in the, in the literature.

2440
02:48:06,908 --> 02:48:11,559
you can combine extremely low and very
low if that is the way they want to do it.

2441
02:48:23,559 --> 02:48:25,481
you can see the numbers
284, 284, low is 353 is

2442
02:48:25,481 --> 02:48:27,648
required, moderate, 354,
and above moderate or market

2443
02:48:27,661 --> 02:48:29,589
rate, I guess you'd call
it 710, the percentage

2444
02:48:29,589 --> 02:48:31,559
is there of the total,
14, 14, 17, 17, 35, 100%.

2445
02:48:34,859 --> 02:48:38,066
stuff this below market
where you're required to build.

2446
02:48:38,078 --> 02:48:42,559
if you look at 64.2%, so the rhna
that we have to do, it is 64% of the 1980.

2447
02:48:42,709 --> 02:48:50,559
okay, with the 15% inclusionary, new
housing requirements would not be 1985.

2448
02:48:53,709 --> 02:48:56,694
our housing requirements
would be 8,1496.

2449
02:48:56,707 --> 02:49:01,559
the math is on the next line. Take
62 divided by 15 times the 1985.

2450
02:49:06,658 --> 02:49:10,658
straight forward. That's what
we're required. So if we commit and

2451
02:49:10,671 --> 02:49:14,559
by end of this, we just increased
our rhna, please keep it up.

2452
02:49:15,109 --> 02:49:20,559
if we approve this, we have just bought
into our new rhna number of 8,496.

2453
02:49:21,209 --> 02:49:24,761
just to give you
perspective, the entire city of

2454
02:49:24,772 --> 02:49:28,559
laguna hills has approximately
10,500 family units.

2455
02:49:36,759 --> 02:49:40,591
now, if you notice, that is not a
whole lot different than the 84 or

2456
02:49:40,602 --> 02:49:44,559
96. The percent increase in housing
units would be, civil math, 8,984.

2457
02:49:51,683 --> 02:49:55,549
96 divided by 10,500. Basically,
laguna hills has to increase by

2458
02:49:55,560 --> 02:49:59,559
80.91%. That is absurd. We, as I
mentioned, are available of land.

2459
02:50:00,559 --> 02:50:04,447
we basically don't have any
land. All we have is land that

2460
02:50:04,459 --> 02:50:08,559
we can change from what it is
now to meet these requirements.

2461
02:50:11,209 --> 02:50:13,234
I just, you know, I can't
fathom how anybody could

2462
02:50:13,234 --> 02:50:15,097
sit up in sacramento
and profess these numbers

2463
02:50:15,110 --> 02:50:16,858
when they actually sit
down and do the math

2464
02:50:16,858 --> 02:50:18,728
and look what it does
to a small city like us.

2465
02:50:19,834 --> 02:50:23,573
irvine was mentioned a little bit
ago. They have, I understand, big

2466
02:50:23,584 --> 02:50:27,559
financial problems. They're in debt
and don't can't meet their budgets.

2467
02:50:27,859 --> 02:50:30,585
I'm not sure if it's true,
but I'm pretty sure it

2468
02:50:30,597 --> 02:50:33,559
is. We at least still have
a few dollars in the bank.

2469
02:50:36,058 --> 02:50:39,629
and I mentioned this before, but, you know,
builders should follow the same rules and

2470
02:50:39,640 --> 02:50:41,685
percentages of the
city. If we're first to build

2471
02:50:41,685 --> 02:50:43,559
64, then they have to
be forced to build 64.

2472
02:50:48,559 --> 02:50:50,522
there's no reason why we
need to accommodate a private

2473
02:50:50,522 --> 02:50:52,739
industry to make money as
opposed to our citizens who pay tax

2474
02:50:52,752 --> 02:50:54,757
and expect things like roads
and electric lights on the

2475
02:50:54,757 --> 02:50:56,834
street lights and all the kind
of things that we provide.

2476
02:50:56,859 --> 02:51:00,730
it just does not make any sense
to me. There was a comment

2477
02:51:00,743 --> 02:51:04,559
about england, I believe in
london, just there last year.

2478
02:51:04,759 --> 02:51:08,559
and I have to admit, I drove 26
hundred miles around england and wales.

2479
02:51:09,009 --> 02:51:11,772
and the one thing that shocked
me, you know, I got away from the big

2480
02:51:11,783 --> 02:51:14,559
cities, the london's and the
liverpool's and got out in the country.

2481
02:51:15,559 --> 02:51:19,445
once you get outside the big cities, a
country that's been there for ages and

2482
02:51:19,458 --> 02:51:23,559
ages when, you know, we wouldn't, we were,
you know, just rolling hills of trees.

2483
02:51:25,559 --> 02:51:27,586
it's really rural, there's
a lot of places out

2484
02:51:27,586 --> 02:51:29,568
there that once you
get outside of london, or

2485
02:51:29,581 --> 02:51:31,570
outside of liverpool,
you know, there's a lot

2486
02:51:31,570 --> 02:51:33,559
of land there, which
is totally surprised me.

2487
02:51:37,058 --> 02:51:39,163
the same is true as here,
and I mentioned it before,

2488
02:51:39,163 --> 02:51:41,147
we have land outside
of the cities. And just like

2489
02:51:41,158 --> 02:51:43,188
in london, you know,
we're surprised are extremely

2490
02:51:43,188 --> 02:51:45,259
high, you get out further
out, you don't have that.

2491
02:51:49,134 --> 02:51:52,790
but yet, the prevailing sentiment is to
increase increasingly, just lean on cities

2492
02:51:52,801 --> 02:51:56,559
and make them do the brunt of this work
when all they're doing is destroying cities.

2493
02:52:01,609 --> 02:52:03,753
this market as far as
housing, I'm sorry, but I think

2494
02:52:03,753 --> 02:52:05,856
that it should go with the
market. I mean, you know,

2495
02:52:05,869 --> 02:52:07,977
supply and demand is work
for years, and whether you

2496
02:52:07,977 --> 02:52:10,248
like it or not, believe it or
not, it's going to happen.

2497
02:52:10,559 --> 02:52:12,632
and all this is just
social engineering trying

2498
02:52:12,632 --> 02:52:14,479
to do things that
weren't meant to be, it

2499
02:52:14,492 --> 02:52:16,525
was meant to be if it
was a better, if it was

2500
02:52:16,525 --> 02:52:18,559
a better mouse trap, it
would have been done.

2501
02:52:18,658 --> 02:52:22,148
and it just, it just pulls me, this
rhna, although the, if it would

2502
02:52:22,161 --> 02:52:25,559
stop the housing, I would think
it would be a good thing actually.

2503
02:52:27,559 --> 02:52:29,587
then we could have some
rational thought about

2504
02:52:29,587 --> 02:52:31,438
how to really allocate
land and really get

2505
02:52:31,450 --> 02:52:33,394
people to need housing,
cheaper housing, you

2506
02:52:33,394 --> 02:52:35,559
know, a place to live
instead of forcing it down.

2507
02:52:39,908 --> 02:52:41,694
I mean, a lot of people
in laguna house have

2508
02:52:41,694 --> 02:52:43,763
worked hard all their
lives to buy a nice house, to

2509
02:52:43,774 --> 02:52:45,769
build a nice area, and I
heard some comment about

2510
02:52:45,769 --> 02:52:47,559
that people that they
deserve to live there.

2511
02:52:47,609 --> 02:52:50,949
I can't disagree. You kind of
work your way out of the thing.

2512
02:52:50,960 --> 02:52:55,559
I didn't start out making a sound I did
when I retired. You have to build on things.

2513
02:52:55,658 --> 02:52:59,371
I mean, my son and daughter, neither
one live in the state of california.

2514
02:52:59,384 --> 02:53:03,559
when I graduated from college in new york,
I wouldn't have lived in new york city.

2515
02:53:06,109 --> 02:53:07,981
I mean, it's just too
expensive. And then this is,

2516
02:53:07,981 --> 02:53:09,816
you have to work at
things. And you have to build

2517
02:53:09,828 --> 02:53:11,819
something. And to come in
and just, you know, destroy

2518
02:53:11,819 --> 02:53:13,584
everything, you know,
it's just not reasonable.

2519
02:53:13,609 --> 02:53:17,032
it needs to be some,
some planning and some

2520
02:53:17,045 --> 02:53:20,559
doing this though. I
really don't like this.

2521
02:53:29,634 --> 02:53:32,098
I didn't comment about the
ways allocated between residential

2522
02:53:32,098 --> 02:53:34,602
and owner. I'm sorry, between
the apartment and owner. I think

2523
02:53:34,614 --> 02:53:37,125
those percentages, if we're
going to do 15, it should be like,

2524
02:53:37,125 --> 02:53:39,513
you know, 4, 4, 4, 4 and 3
for each of the four categories.

2525
02:53:49,859 --> 02:53:52,322
so that we meet each one of
them to some degree as opposed to

2526
02:53:52,322 --> 02:53:54,826
segregated. I would be my
proposal if it goes through. I guess

2527
02:53:54,838 --> 02:53:57,469
I'm, I'm not, I'm not in favor
of really doing it because it says

2528
02:53:57,469 --> 02:53:59,978
basically a ku bought into to
8,500 new house instead of 1985.

2529
02:54:01,734 --> 02:54:04,077
the in lieu fee to comment
about that. The in lieu fees is

2530
02:54:04,077 --> 02:54:06,582
basically they're buying their
way out of building what we're,

2531
02:54:06,593 --> 02:54:09,064
what we asked them to build.
And it's just another example of

2532
02:54:09,064 --> 02:54:11,533
like I said, not falling the
supply and demand in the market.

2533
02:54:21,559 --> 02:54:23,429
we're putting a cost
of, well, I think it was

2534
02:54:23,429 --> 02:54:25,465
$640,000 on a house. More
government interference

2535
02:54:25,477 --> 02:54:27,476
that raises the price
of a house. It's just, you

2536
02:54:27,476 --> 02:54:29,559
know, in front of apartment,
what was it, 260,000?

2537
02:54:32,709 --> 02:54:36,438
you go back there and buy a house
a pretty nice house for for $260,000.

2538
02:54:36,450 --> 02:54:40,559
anyway, just this whole thing is just
a big, I'm sorry, it's just a big first.

2539
02:54:46,709 --> 02:54:50,429
anyone else on the council? Is erica
still with this? Oh, erica, did you have

2540
02:54:50,441 --> 02:54:54,559
something you wanted? I have something
myself, but I'll let you go first if you want.

2541
02:54:59,058 --> 02:55:02,754
yes, first of all, I
think that I think that

2542
02:55:02,766 --> 02:55:06,559
we should have required
this a long time ago.

2543
02:55:25,559 --> 02:55:28,349
and it's something we've mentioned and
it's something that we as a council we're

2544
02:55:28,349 --> 02:55:31,208
trying to push for. And I think that to
be to make it so that it's fair for all of

2545
02:55:31,219 --> 02:55:33,945
the projects and entitlements to following
if we if, if the state is mandating

2546
02:55:33,945 --> 02:55:36,809
something then everyone united needs to
bear the burden and have their fair share.

2547
02:55:36,834 --> 02:55:38,759
and that's unfortunately
not happening. And

2548
02:55:38,759 --> 02:55:40,684
what's happening is
if you decide, hey, you

2549
02:55:40,697 --> 02:55:42,673
would like to be in it,
you could the way to

2550
02:55:42,673 --> 02:55:44,559
get out of this just
to pay right a check.

2551
02:55:49,559 --> 02:55:53,574
and I don't think that's right because
we as a city haven't shown that we can

2552
02:55:53,585 --> 02:55:57,559
exercise discretion and we can't show
that we can handle the incoming money.

2553
02:55:58,609 --> 02:56:02,504
we don't have anything
structured for that. So to create a

2554
02:56:02,516 --> 02:56:06,559
law without a way to enforce
it is not effective government.

2555
02:56:15,658 --> 02:56:17,787
and so I think that while it's we
should do something, I think that

2556
02:56:17,787 --> 02:56:19,788
this is the mark and doesn't
support the primary goal, which is

2557
02:56:19,799 --> 02:56:21,997
to ensure housing for people
that can't afford if that is the primary

2558
02:56:21,997 --> 02:56:24,034
goal that needs to happen.
This is what the state is asking for.

2559
02:56:24,058 --> 02:56:29,559
so I think we were
going about it incorrectly.

2560
02:56:29,709 --> 02:56:32,559
and so those are my comments.

2561
02:56:33,558 --> 02:56:40,559
okay. Thank you.
So oh, josh, would you like to speak?

2562
02:56:40,560 --> 02:56:41,559
go ahead.

2563
02:56:41,560 --> 02:56:42,560
if you want.

2564
02:56:42,658 --> 02:56:43,559
and I'd injure it.

2565
02:56:43,560 --> 02:56:45,559
which one wants to go first.

2566
02:56:45,560 --> 02:56:46,560
I'll tell you.

2567
02:56:46,609 --> 02:56:48,559
thank you, mr. Mayor.

2568
02:56:53,759 --> 02:56:55,650
the question I have
for staff because there's

2569
02:56:55,650 --> 02:56:57,709
been concern mentioned
about the in luffy and and

2570
02:56:57,721 --> 02:56:59,662
maybe other ways to
satisfy these the standard

2571
02:56:59,662 --> 02:57:01,559
that's being set by
this inclusionary zoning.

2572
02:57:01,560 --> 02:57:08,559
all that has to come to council correct.

2573
02:57:08,658 --> 02:57:11,018
for alternative methods
of compliance. Yes. Yes.

2574
02:57:11,030 --> 02:57:14,559
it is up to the city council to
determine whether or not an alternative.

2575
02:57:14,560 --> 02:57:18,559
so it all comes to us. Yes. Thank you.

2576
02:57:27,759 --> 02:57:31,469
I need a clarification on that. It
only count once we pass it, it's set.

2577
02:57:31,481 --> 02:57:35,559
they don't have to come back. No. That's
not what director load just reiterate.

2578
02:57:35,560 --> 02:57:38,370
the standard that's being set is the 15%
with the parameters for 15%, but there's

2579
02:57:38,382 --> 02:57:41,135
also other ways to satisfy those needs
and those would have to come to council.

2580
02:57:41,158 --> 02:57:44,274
I thought not because
that's why she had the 41 61.

2581
02:57:44,287 --> 02:57:48,559
I mean, go ahead. You can say it
again if you'd like director, though.

2582
02:57:48,933 --> 02:57:53,559
so there are alternative methods
compliance beyond a pain in luffy.

2583
02:57:53,609 --> 02:57:58,559
so the in luffy is one method to comply
with the inclusionary housing ordinance.

2584
02:57:59,559 --> 02:58:01,521
other methods that
could potentially happen is

2585
02:58:01,521 --> 02:58:03,525
the developer could
make a proposal to the city

2586
02:58:03,538 --> 02:58:05,506
council that they think
would be in the better

2587
02:58:05,506 --> 02:58:07,559
interest than providing
the percentage of units.

2588
02:58:09,559 --> 02:58:13,599
so if they decide that they want to
make a proposal to the council, the council

2589
02:58:13,611 --> 02:58:17,559
has the right to consider it and determine
if what the proposal is outweighs.

2590
02:58:18,559 --> 02:58:22,662
if the benefits outweigh
what the inclusionary housing

2591
02:58:22,674 --> 02:58:26,559
ordinance provides, then
the council can accept it.

2592
02:58:29,559 --> 02:58:33,459
I'm sorry, just clarification, but
if a builder comes in and says,

2593
02:58:33,470 --> 02:58:37,559
I'll accept those, then they can
do it. The 41 61, right? If we pass.

2594
02:58:37,859 --> 02:58:39,622
yes. That's what
I was getting that.

2595
02:58:39,635 --> 02:58:42,559
if they say I'll do it, we don't
it doesn't come back to us.

2596
02:58:43,209 --> 02:58:45,559
yeah, I was talking about
the alternative methods. Yeah.

2597
02:58:50,759 --> 02:58:52,548
so other methods
could include if they want

2598
02:58:52,548 --> 02:58:54,461
to dedicate land to
the city, or provide other

2599
02:58:54,474 --> 02:58:56,475
benefits to the city that
the city council would

2600
02:58:56,475 --> 02:58:58,559
value as providing more
benefit than just the 15%.

2601
02:59:11,009 --> 02:59:12,944
thank you, mayor. Before
deciding on this, I had a

2602
02:59:12,944 --> 02:59:14,957
question actually for the
city attorney, if I could,

2603
02:59:14,968 --> 02:59:17,102
please. Can we confirm
whether there's a specific legal

2604
02:59:17,102 --> 02:59:19,235
or housing element deadline
requiring adoption tonight?

2605
02:59:19,259 --> 02:59:21,755
it is part of our
housing element.

2606
02:59:21,768 --> 02:59:25,559
I believe we said that we
would adopt an in the fee.

2607
02:59:25,609 --> 02:59:30,559
it is a housing implementation measure.
Okay, and so it.

2608
02:59:34,009 --> 02:59:36,272
hcd will be will be following
what we do to see if we if

2609
02:59:36,272 --> 02:59:38,537
we implement. I'm not sure
if the deadline runs tonight,

2610
02:59:38,549 --> 02:59:40,859
I might have to ask for help
in the community development

2611
02:59:40,859 --> 02:59:43,088
director. It's my I don't
believe that it runs tonight.

2612
02:59:44,559 --> 02:59:48,478
there is no deadline to adopt the inclusionary
housing. The intent was to take it with

2613
02:59:48,490 --> 02:59:50,433
no net loss, because
once the sites become

2614
02:59:50,433 --> 02:59:52,559
available for development
on the rezone sites.

2615
02:59:55,759 --> 02:59:57,581
if there's not an
inclusionary housing and an

2616
02:59:57,581 --> 02:59:59,688
application is submitted,
it would not be subject to

2617
02:59:59,700 --> 03:00:01,690
the 15% requirement. It
could come in at whatever

2618
03:00:01,690 --> 03:00:03,559
provisions are currently
in place of the time.

2619
03:00:03,808 --> 03:00:08,559
so if we were to continue
this, let's say for 30 or 60 days.

2620
03:00:11,959 --> 03:00:15,575
would that put at risk
the housing element

2621
03:00:15,586 --> 03:00:19,559
and or would it affect
the no net loss action?

2622
03:00:24,559 --> 03:00:26,553
it would affect the housing
element per se, but it

2623
03:00:26,553 --> 03:00:28,507
would affect that the
fact the city would be open

2624
03:00:28,520 --> 03:00:30,479
to getting additional
development at providing no

2625
03:00:30,479 --> 03:00:32,559
affordable or 5% affordable
density bonuses invoked.

2626
03:00:32,560 --> 03:00:35,520
so then we would be getting
below that 15% and we'd be

2627
03:00:35,531 --> 03:00:38,559
getting closer to go into
a state of no net loss again.

2628
03:00:38,560 --> 03:00:40,559
okay, thank you.

2629
03:00:55,559 --> 03:00:58,182
okay, uncharacteristically, I'm
going to say a lot here because I

2630
03:00:58,182 --> 03:01:01,086
usually do that, but I do think time
is of the essence in the sense that

2631
03:01:01,099 --> 03:01:03,969
we've taken care of the no net
loss, but I have to tell you that when I

2632
03:01:03,969 --> 03:01:06,879
looked at some of the things that
we've approved in the last few months.

2633
03:01:11,584 --> 03:01:15,506
one of them was a, you know, a
development that had essentially 500 houses

2634
03:01:15,519 --> 03:01:19,559
and only 25, only 25 of them were
going to be affordable at not a super low.

2635
03:01:28,709 --> 03:01:30,854
and so 25, okay, and then
when I looked at the plans,

2636
03:01:30,854 --> 03:01:32,798
because I like to look
at plans for some reason,

2637
03:01:32,809 --> 03:01:34,881
they were all studios,
practically, so I mean it's,

2638
03:01:34,881 --> 03:01:36,748
in my opinion, the
developers is making a ton.

2639
03:01:36,859 --> 03:01:38,559
okay, it's my opinion.

2640
03:01:39,058 --> 03:01:41,559
I'll even make it my professional opinion.

2641
03:01:42,559 --> 03:01:46,584
and because, you know,
they have the ability to do it,

2642
03:01:46,596 --> 03:01:50,559
why wouldn't they? They're
in business to make money.

2643
03:01:57,808 --> 03:01:59,805
and so, you know, that
saddens me, and so I do

2644
03:01:59,805 --> 03:02:01,759
think kind of time is
of the essence in doing

2645
03:02:01,771 --> 03:02:03,643
something if we're
going to, if we're going

2646
03:02:03,643 --> 03:02:05,559
to do it, then this is
a good time to do it.

2647
03:02:07,783 --> 03:02:11,915
or, you know, looking at this because
the minute somebody hands something

2648
03:02:11,926 --> 03:02:15,559
in, and we haven't done
anything, it's still five, five percent.

2649
03:02:15,658 --> 03:02:17,559
okay, second item.

2650
03:02:17,560 --> 03:02:23,559
I will try to go down this
as kind of an order of things.

2651
03:02:23,959 --> 03:02:27,559
this is a very real crisis.

2652
03:02:32,158 --> 03:02:35,793
and economics plays a big part
of this. I mean, you know, back after

2653
03:02:35,806 --> 03:02:39,559
world war ii, people, young people,
could buy a 6,000 square foot lot.

2654
03:02:41,559 --> 03:02:45,349
okay, coming back from, you
know, the military or wherever, start a

2655
03:02:45,361 --> 03:02:49,559
family of four, and have a three-bedroom
house all over the united states.

2656
03:02:49,634 --> 03:02:53,559
okay, no matter, you know,
commensurate with the prices for that area.

2657
03:02:58,559 --> 03:03:02,621
over the last, you know, 75 years since
then, it keeps getting smaller and smaller

2658
03:03:02,634 --> 03:03:06,559
and smaller because of the economics,
the cost of land on all the rest of that.

2659
03:03:07,209 --> 03:03:11,040
and it's also much more
complicated than that,

2660
03:03:11,051 --> 03:03:14,559
but it's, you know,
essentially that's it.

2661
03:03:15,559 --> 03:03:19,443
it's only so much land and the plants
that vote, certain price, then things

2662
03:03:19,456 --> 03:03:23,559
are going to keep getting smaller and
less affordable and all the rest of that.

2663
03:03:24,308 --> 03:03:25,559
third item.

2664
03:03:26,459 --> 03:03:31,559
and this isn't to toot my horn,
but it's to say, this is very real.

2665
03:03:35,609 --> 03:03:39,362
so, I have very real even for
my own family because we

2666
03:03:39,375 --> 03:03:43,559
adopted a family of five from
families forward 10 years ago.

2667
03:03:47,009 --> 03:03:50,717
and that, and if I adopted, I mean,
we backed them up when families

2668
03:03:50,728 --> 03:03:54,559
forward thought that they were a
round peg in a square hole and said,

2669
03:03:54,859 --> 03:03:59,559
go move to add a lonto
or something like that.

2670
03:03:59,609 --> 03:04:02,559
we couldn't do that.

2671
03:04:04,559 --> 03:04:08,467
and so, you know, we guaranteed
their rent and all the rest of that stuff

2672
03:04:08,478 --> 03:04:12,559
at that time, that family, which was a
single mom and four kids, had income.

2673
03:04:12,658 --> 03:04:17,559
I have to know about $33,000 a year.

2674
03:04:17,808 --> 03:04:22,559
crazy to think she was going to
stay in orange county, but everywhere.

2675
03:04:22,609 --> 03:04:24,559
okay, fast forward.

2676
03:04:25,209 --> 03:04:27,559
this is 10 years later.

2677
03:04:27,560 --> 03:04:32,559
she's gotten much more educated,
been mentored and all the rest of that.

2678
03:04:33,559 --> 03:04:37,341
and her income is probably
close to $100,000 to the two

2679
03:04:37,352 --> 03:04:41,559
girls have moved on through
college and all the rest of that.

2680
03:04:41,560 --> 03:04:44,559
and so, now it's a family of
three with that kind of thing.

2681
03:04:44,609 --> 03:04:46,559
so, it's a success.

2682
03:04:46,808 --> 03:04:49,559
the point of this, though,
isn't about, oh, look at me.

2683
03:04:50,009 --> 03:04:52,559
it's really about, this is real, okay?

2684
03:04:52,560 --> 03:04:59,559
and if you go over to sofi or any one
of these apartment buildings over here,

2685
03:04:59,560 --> 03:05:03,548
you're going to find in two
bedroom places, you know, five

2686
03:05:03,559 --> 03:05:07,559
people living in them because
that's what they can afford.

2687
03:05:07,683 --> 03:05:11,559
and what do they do? Are they derelict?
Are they, what's the deal?

2688
03:05:11,560 --> 03:05:17,559
you know, because they're paying
$3,600 for two bedroom apartment, okay?

2689
03:05:18,109 --> 03:05:20,559
no, they work at saddleback.

2690
03:05:21,609 --> 03:05:25,048
they work, I mean, these are people
with living wages and all the rest

2691
03:05:25,059 --> 03:05:28,559
of that, but they're at the lower
end of the totem pole, unfortunately.

2692
03:05:28,560 --> 03:05:31,559
and so, it is a problem.

2693
03:05:31,709 --> 03:05:33,559
that's all I'm really trying to say here.

2694
03:05:33,808 --> 03:05:37,143
it is lots of times you get
caught up in the numbers, the

2695
03:05:37,155 --> 03:05:40,559
numbers for the developers,
the numbers for this and that.

2696
03:05:40,859 --> 03:05:44,764
and I, you know, I mean, I
used to, you know, speak to the

2697
03:05:44,777 --> 03:05:48,559
bia all the time, you know,
when I was out in riverside.

2698
03:05:49,058 --> 03:05:52,629
but the point is that, you
know, we really do have to

2699
03:05:52,640 --> 03:05:56,559
find as conservative as I am,
we've got to find solutions.

2700
03:06:06,559 --> 03:06:08,623
and the last item, what
a city is actually supposed

2701
03:06:08,623 --> 03:06:10,686
to do is not build these
things, unless we get into

2702
03:06:10,699 --> 03:06:12,768
the game of that affordability
gap and fees in lieu

2703
03:06:12,768 --> 03:06:15,000
of, then I guess we started
getting much more involved.

2704
03:06:28,609 --> 03:06:30,952
but, but the point is, is that
the whole reason for all of

2705
03:06:30,952 --> 03:06:33,297
this up zoning and all the
rest of that is to help make it

2706
03:06:33,308 --> 03:06:35,899
possible for somebody in the
private sector to essentially maybe

2707
03:06:35,899 --> 03:06:38,369
first build more housing, which
we can argue with like crazy.

2708
03:06:44,559 --> 03:06:46,658
and second, you know,
to build, to build a certain

2709
03:06:46,658 --> 03:06:48,630
percentage of it
affordable. I don't think that

2710
03:06:48,643 --> 03:06:50,538
it means because
reena, I sit, I'm on a scag,

2711
03:06:50,538 --> 03:06:52,559
the committee for economic
development for scag.

2712
03:06:52,908 --> 03:06:58,559
okay, for the last five years. Okay,
so I know a little something about this.

2713
03:07:12,734 --> 03:07:15,557
and, and what I'm, what I'm saying
is that, you know, without drinking

2714
03:07:15,557 --> 03:07:18,422
the kool-aid completely, the point
is that it's very real and, and that

2715
03:07:18,433 --> 03:07:21,384
cities are really their jurisdictions
like us, could not, doesn't have to

2716
03:07:21,384 --> 03:07:24,334
be a city, are there to actually
facilitate the ability for it to happen.

2717
03:07:31,759 --> 03:07:34,023
we're not the ones that are
going to make it happen, and

2718
03:07:34,023 --> 03:07:36,246
we can't absolutely, you
know, force it down the throat

2719
03:07:36,259 --> 03:07:38,528
that 60% of it has to be
affordable at the lowest level,

2720
03:07:38,528 --> 03:07:40,918
because that private developer
won't be able to finance it.

2721
03:07:46,209 --> 03:07:47,950
and that's why a
department of the state of

2722
03:07:47,950 --> 03:07:50,176
california, housing community
development, if we handed

2723
03:07:50,189 --> 03:07:52,260
something in like that,
they would say we're crazy.

2724
03:07:52,260 --> 03:07:54,168
and even though I can
argue this, the opposite.

2725
03:08:14,908 --> 03:08:17,138
because we're putting out
something that's not realistic.

2726
03:08:17,138 --> 03:08:18,507
it's what, it's all,
what everybody

2727
03:08:18,507 --> 03:08:21,832
would love to have. And yet the economics
where I started doesn't make it work. Okay.

2728
03:08:21,843 --> 03:08:24,940
so 15% is something that many cities
and jurisdictions have done and has passed

2729
03:08:24,940 --> 03:08:25,214
through

2730
03:08:25,214 --> 03:08:28,584
the sort of, you know, we have, we have a
certified housing development plan with hcd.

2731
03:08:28,609 --> 03:08:30,611
and what we don't want
to do is jeopardize that

2732
03:08:30,611 --> 03:08:32,742
by either willingly or
unknowingly doing something

2733
03:08:32,754 --> 03:08:34,678
that's unrealistic and
having them say, well,

2734
03:08:34,678 --> 03:08:36,559
I don't know if you're
so certified anymore.

2735
03:08:45,559 --> 03:08:47,502
but for the next three,
three, four years, three

2736
03:08:47,502 --> 03:08:49,686
years. So, you know, I have
to support it because it's

2737
03:08:49,699 --> 03:08:51,850
a start. I was saddened by
the fact that we have, you

2738
03:08:51,850 --> 03:08:53,879
know, the 5% thing, but
I understand it. I get it.

2739
03:09:09,559 --> 03:09:12,303
and this, if we can do this and
make a realistic effort of doing it,

2740
03:09:12,303 --> 03:09:14,967
you know, I don't, I don't
necessarily agree, dave, with your idea

2741
03:09:14,978 --> 03:09:17,729
that it creates that we, we have a
contract down with the state that

2742
03:09:17,729 --> 03:09:20,520
the next rhna that we're going to
have to do 8,300, you know, homes.

2743
03:09:22,559 --> 03:09:26,523
so we're in the business of up zoning so
that a developer, if they can make something

2744
03:09:26,536 --> 03:09:30,559
happen that's in the right direction, happen,
but it's not our duty to make it happen.

2745
03:09:35,559 --> 03:09:39,332
last item. And I brought it up. It
was a report from my scag meeting.

2746
03:09:39,343 --> 03:09:43,559
oh, maybe four months ago, you know,
you know, we meet often during the year.

2747
03:09:43,859 --> 03:09:47,697
and it was a fantastic
presentation that they made,

2748
03:09:47,709 --> 03:09:51,558
which is not all that, it
doesn't happen every day.

2749
03:09:51,709 --> 03:09:55,283
but it was about how
counties, you know, scag has six

2750
03:09:55,296 --> 03:09:59,559
counties, I believe, in southern
california, 19 million people.

2751
03:09:59,658 --> 03:10:03,167
and how the counties
and jurisdictions were doing,

2752
03:10:03,180 --> 03:10:06,559
how jobs were doing,
the whole nine yards, okay.

2753
03:10:17,734 --> 03:10:20,318
and, and one of the interesting
things that when they got around

2754
03:10:20,318 --> 03:10:22,903
the housing that I, I took away
from it, which I thought, I have

2755
03:10:22,915 --> 03:10:25,586
to be careful how I remember it
because, you know, I'm not reading

2756
03:10:25,586 --> 03:10:27,974
from a script, but this is
pretty, pretty much what it was.

2757
03:10:37,683 --> 03:10:39,907
I was shaken by the fact
that with the development that

2758
03:10:39,907 --> 03:10:42,252
has occurred, okay, in terms
of apartments and housing and

2759
03:10:42,263 --> 03:10:44,533
stuff, that in terms of market
rate housing, and I think

2760
03:10:44,533 --> 03:10:46,924
this mainly apartments and
things like that, a multifamily,

2761
03:10:58,658 --> 03:11:01,204
that there was actually a surplus
of housing that started about

2762
03:11:01,204 --> 03:11:03,587
a year and a half ago, and
is still growing, they do see it

2763
03:11:03,600 --> 03:11:06,110
coming back to the curve again
and being, you know, back where

2764
03:11:06,110 --> 03:11:08,498
it meets with what this flying
demand would be zero out at.

2765
03:11:20,709 --> 03:11:23,331
and, but I thought it's because
everyone was rushing to get these

2766
03:11:23,331 --> 03:11:26,358
buildings up, there were six stories
high, and there's an awful lot of them

2767
03:11:26,370 --> 03:11:28,957
evidently, based on the report I
got from scag, that where these

2768
03:11:28,957 --> 03:11:31,988
apartments are sitting empty because
they want to rent them at market rate.

2769
03:11:43,683 --> 03:11:46,386
and those units are sitting, this
supply is greater than the demand

2770
03:11:46,386 --> 03:11:49,332
because the demand side of the
curve basically said, no, I'm not going to

2771
03:11:49,343 --> 03:11:52,133
pay $3,600 for that two bedroom
apartment that is only, you know, 14,

2772
03:11:52,133 --> 03:11:55,043
you know, what, not even that, 1,000
square feet or something like that.

2773
03:12:07,559 --> 03:12:10,140
so, I say, I was a long-winded on
this one, but this is something that I've

2774
03:12:10,140 --> 03:12:12,618
really thought about deeply and
from the side of the reality of it, from

2775
03:12:12,629 --> 03:12:15,182
the side of, hey, we've got to make
some kind of a movement here that's in

2776
03:12:15,182 --> 03:12:17,735
the right direction, and I've been in
design and construction all my life.

2777
03:12:17,759 --> 03:12:21,558
so, you're not going to ever
find me really up against the team,

2778
03:12:21,569 --> 03:12:25,559
but we all got to do our part,
and that's where I have to leave it.

2779
03:12:45,808 --> 03:12:49,620
so, I'm going to, I see no more
questions here unless somebody has one or

2780
03:12:49,631 --> 03:12:53,559
deliberations, I'm going to ask for a
motion, one way or the other on this.

2781
03:12:54,308 --> 03:12:57,559
that number of 80, 80, 500 is real.

2782
03:13:00,259 --> 03:13:02,122
I mean, that's the
straight, we're supposed to

2783
03:13:02,122 --> 03:13:04,066
be 64%, if we only make
them do a 15, that's the

2784
03:13:04,078 --> 03:13:06,027
equivalent how much it
takes, so it's not a, how

2785
03:13:06,027 --> 03:13:08,138
much it takes, but it doesn't
mean we have to do it.

2786
03:13:08,584 --> 03:13:12,588
that's true, we don't have to do it,
but presumably, if, you know, hcd

2787
03:13:12,601 --> 03:13:16,559
is, you know, on their toes, they'll
say, hey, you're non-compliance.

2788
03:13:17,559 --> 03:13:21,572
if they could take things away, anyway,
if I'm going to say there's no fuzz on that

2789
03:13:21,584 --> 03:13:25,559
number, that's if we approve it, that's
a real 8,500, or we don't meet if we fail.

2790
03:13:25,908 --> 03:13:27,559
so, I just wanted that.

2791
03:13:27,560 --> 03:13:28,559
there's a whole list.

2792
03:13:28,560 --> 03:13:29,559
there's not fuzzy numbers.

2793
03:13:29,560 --> 03:13:34,559
I see the numbers, but that doesn't necessarily
mean that's how it is going to work.

2794
03:13:37,859 --> 03:13:41,980
the other side of that, I didn't
even get into, it was really interesting

2795
03:13:41,993 --> 03:13:45,559
to see the population decrease
in the, in the, in the sky area.

2796
03:13:49,559 --> 03:13:53,475
and, and they, I had to give a sky credit,
which I don't always, for being pretty

2797
03:13:53,486 --> 03:13:57,559
honest about giving us real numbers that
they really felt this is what was going on.

2798
03:14:07,058 --> 03:14:09,246
which I'm hoping that when
we get to 2029, because there's a

2799
03:14:09,246 --> 03:14:11,543
lot of people who sit on that
committee who aren't necessarily,

2800
03:14:11,556 --> 03:14:13,750
you know, one way or the
other about it, other than, why are

2801
03:14:13,750 --> 03:14:15,834
we asking for millions and
millions of units to be built.

2802
03:14:15,859 --> 03:14:19,395
when california is not growing
anymore, at the moment,

2803
03:14:19,406 --> 03:14:22,559
and that's, and that,
and I'll leave it at that.

2804
03:14:23,009 --> 03:14:27,559
so, that's, but that, we don't,
we'll cross that bridge until 2029.

2805
03:14:29,609 --> 03:14:33,719
that doesn't mean that we're not,
I always have the, the affordability

2806
03:14:33,731 --> 03:14:37,559
gap, which is partly what this
is all about, this particular one.

2807
03:14:38,859 --> 03:14:44,559
and, I'll be, I'll be quiet now,
I even have a motion to make.

2808
03:14:44,560 --> 03:14:51,559
more on me.

2809
03:14:52,558 --> 03:14:56,559
well, I'll move, I didn't necessarily want
to move both of these things, but I will.

2810
03:15:10,908 --> 03:15:14,538
I'll, I'll move, I'll basically to accept
the staff report and, and to move the

2811
03:15:14,549 --> 03:15:16,601
inclusionary zoning
ordinance in, and direct

2812
03:15:16,601 --> 03:15:18,559
relationship to what
the staff report was.

2813
03:15:19,559 --> 03:15:23,254
I'll, I'll, I'll second with a
friendly amendment that we

2814
03:15:23,266 --> 03:15:27,559
increase the formal review process
from five years to three years.

2815
03:15:27,560 --> 03:15:29,559
if, if, if you accept that.

2816
03:15:29,560 --> 03:15:30,559
I do.

2817
03:15:30,560 --> 03:15:32,559
okay.

2818
03:15:32,560 --> 03:15:34,559
okay.

2819
03:15:34,908 --> 03:15:40,559
um, do we have any further
deliberation based on the motion?

2820
03:15:41,658 --> 03:15:44,559
all right, josh.

2821
03:15:45,158 --> 03:15:49,559
mayor caskey.

2822
03:15:49,559 --> 03:15:49,559
aye. Mayor pro tem mathis.

2823
03:15:49,609 --> 03:15:50,559
aye.

2824
03:15:50,609 --> 03:15:51,559
council member sweeney.

2825
03:15:51,560 --> 03:15:52,559
aye.

2826
03:15:52,560 --> 03:15:53,559
council member wheeler.

2827
03:15:53,560 --> 03:15:55,559
no.

2828
03:15:55,560 --> 03:15:56,559
council member pezold.

2829
03:15:56,560 --> 03:15:57,560
no.

2830
03:15:58,009 --> 03:15:59,559
the ayes have it.

2831
03:15:59,959 --> 03:16:02,559
okay.

2832
03:16:02,560 --> 03:16:03,560
okay.

2833
03:16:03,709 --> 03:16:06,559
so.

2834
03:16:06,609 --> 03:16:12,559
with that, I, we're going
to close the public hearing.

2835
03:16:12,808 --> 03:16:15,559
and bring it back to the city council.

2836
03:16:15,560 --> 03:16:17,559
oh, I already did that.

2837
03:16:17,560 --> 03:16:18,559
I'm sorry.

2838
03:16:18,560 --> 03:16:19,559
I'm on the wrong page.

2839
03:16:19,560 --> 03:16:20,559
sure.

2840
03:16:20,560 --> 03:16:24,507
so we're going to now
move on to really back into

2841
03:16:24,520 --> 03:16:28,559
a city council meeting
and administrative reports.

2842
03:16:29,209 --> 03:16:34,559
and I will, well, some people might
be wanting to leave at this point.

2843
03:16:35,609 --> 03:16:39,421
I will again, thank staff, I
thought that the presentation that

2844
03:16:39,433 --> 03:16:43,559
they gave the powerpoint and
explaining all of this was outstanding.

2845
03:16:43,959 --> 03:16:48,559
and I really appreciate all
the effort that went into this.

2846
03:16:49,259 --> 03:16:50,584
it was not any kind of sneak attack.

2847
03:16:50,609 --> 03:16:58,559
it was the fact that we, we were required
by law to deal with the no net loss thing.

2848
03:17:02,308 --> 03:17:05,945
and that's why this is a special meeting
during what is normally dark for our

2849
03:17:05,958 --> 03:17:09,559
city council so that we can meet that
state law in that regard for that one.

2850
03:17:16,259 --> 03:17:19,648
and we, and it was felt that we at least
needed to put in front of the council the

2851
03:17:19,661 --> 03:17:21,631
possibility of an
inclusionary zoning ordinance

2852
03:17:21,631 --> 03:17:23,559
that would sink in with
this in terms of time.

2853
03:17:28,158 --> 03:17:30,927
and that's really what was happening. It
really had nothing to do with, you know,

2854
03:17:30,940 --> 03:17:33,684
letting other guys go before and on
nothing, nothing to do with that whatsoever.

2855
03:17:33,709 --> 03:17:37,555
it was all the part that was
all precipitated by the fact

2856
03:17:37,566 --> 03:17:41,559
that we had a no net loss
something we needed to deal with.

2857
03:17:41,908 --> 03:17:44,559
okay, so administrative reports.

2858
03:17:44,560 --> 03:17:47,605
I mean, the city manager
who I think is going to also

2859
03:17:47,618 --> 03:17:50,559
make one for the assistant
city manager's not here.

2860
03:17:51,158 --> 03:17:54,559
yes, mayor members of the council
know city manager report this evening.

2861
03:18:01,259 --> 03:18:04,547
but I would like with your permission to
pinch head for the assistant city manager

2862
03:18:04,558 --> 03:18:08,019
who could not be here tonight on item 3.2.1,
which deals with crossing guard services.

2863
03:18:10,408 --> 03:18:13,810
and just a little background, I think
you all know that that our city does

2864
03:18:13,823 --> 03:18:17,559
provide crossing guard services for a
number of streets that we have in the city.

2865
03:18:19,808 --> 03:18:23,743
as children move going to
school and leaving school, and

2866
03:18:23,754 --> 03:18:27,559
we hire outside contractors
to do that service for us.

2867
03:18:30,559 --> 03:18:34,465
so actually back in october of 2023
the city council ordered a contract

2868
03:18:34,477 --> 03:18:38,559
for crossing guard services to a firm
called all city management services.

2869
03:18:39,209 --> 03:18:42,559
it went into effect in november of 2023.

2870
03:18:42,634 --> 03:18:47,559
but the contract expired in
june of 26 a couple months ago.

2871
03:18:48,509 --> 03:18:55,559
all right, I need to tell you we should
have possibly in january gone out to bid.

2872
03:18:55,560 --> 03:18:56,559
but we did not.

2873
03:18:56,560 --> 03:18:57,559
we missed it.

2874
03:18:57,560 --> 03:18:58,560
I missed it.

2875
03:19:00,183 --> 03:19:02,559
and I take forward
responsibility for us missing that.

2876
03:19:09,658 --> 03:19:13,708
but we really need to keep
this service moving forward,

2877
03:19:13,719 --> 03:19:17,559
and that's why we're here
tonight to speak with you.

2878
03:19:24,109 --> 03:19:27,959
is that we would like to propose that we
go back to the all city management services

2879
03:19:27,971 --> 03:19:31,559
and we have had an initial conversation
with them and use their base contract.

2880
03:19:36,609 --> 03:19:40,484
and have a temporary
six month extension and

2881
03:19:40,495 --> 03:19:44,559
to allow us then have
time to do some bidding.

2882
03:19:46,009 --> 03:19:49,962
but allow us also to
continue to provide the service

2883
03:19:49,975 --> 03:19:53,559
to for the kids going
back and forth to school.

2884
03:20:03,609 --> 03:20:05,231
and if that, if that
would work, what we

2885
03:20:05,231 --> 03:20:07,096
would be looking for
the council to do tonight

2886
03:20:07,109 --> 03:20:08,859
is we want to do an
amendment to this prior

2887
03:20:08,859 --> 03:20:10,609
contract where we're
calling amendment one.

2888
03:20:10,658 --> 03:20:13,823
we would ask for you to
approve amendment one of the

2889
03:20:13,834 --> 03:20:17,559
contract services agreement
with all city management service.

2890
03:20:21,609 --> 03:20:23,796
secondly, we would
like to authorize the city

2891
03:20:23,796 --> 03:20:25,789
attorney to make some
minor modifications

2892
03:20:25,800 --> 03:20:29,559
as may be necessary to make sure that
it all works and it holds together well.

2893
03:20:30,584 --> 03:20:36,559
and then finally to authorize
me to sign that amended.

2894
03:20:51,359 --> 03:20:53,502
amendment number one
after our city attorney looks at

2895
03:20:53,502 --> 03:20:55,807
it, so that we can put into
place this contract and still

2896
03:20:55,818 --> 03:20:58,168
continue to work and continue
with the kids going back and

2897
03:20:58,168 --> 03:21:00,519
forth, while we simultaneously
get a bit of process going.

2898
03:21:02,209 --> 03:21:07,559
so I'm available for any questions.

2899
03:21:24,058 --> 03:21:28,559
there is none.

2900
03:21:33,058 --> 03:21:40,559
thank you.

2901
03:21:41,658 --> 03:21:44,559
all right.

2902
03:21:46,558 --> 03:21:47,559
and dave.

2903
03:21:48,959 --> 03:21:51,559
first of all, what is the fiscal impact?

2904
03:21:52,158 --> 03:21:58,559
I have a few comments
on this crossing guard.

2905
03:21:58,560 --> 03:22:01,559
it's been an issue that's been
around for a quarter while.

2906
03:22:03,609 --> 03:22:05,637
I'm certainly in favor
of taking care of the

2907
03:22:05,637 --> 03:22:07,573
kids, although when I
went to kindergarten

2908
03:22:07,584 --> 03:22:09,664
pre-k, I went across
many roads and we didn't

2909
03:22:09,664 --> 03:22:11,559
have crossing guards
and we all survived.

2910
03:22:16,584 --> 03:22:20,320
anyway, I want to deal
with the issue that I've

2911
03:22:20,333 --> 03:22:24,559
talked about before and
I will talk about the future.

2912
03:22:27,259 --> 03:22:30,701
the city gets a, well, there's
a thing called the property tax

2913
03:22:30,713 --> 03:22:34,559
dollar, and I apologize I was going
to give everybody a zero octopus.

2914
03:22:34,859 --> 03:22:36,559
I'll get it to you afterward.

2915
03:22:36,634 --> 03:22:40,717
when I talk about the future
for other reasons, it was a thing

2916
03:22:40,728 --> 03:22:44,559
built and made back before
our city or shortly thereafter.

2917
03:22:44,560 --> 03:22:48,559
it's totally out of date with
realism, what's going on today.

2918
03:22:49,158 --> 03:22:55,559
but I wanted to point out a few things
that are highly questionable in the thing.

2919
03:23:04,308 --> 03:23:07,559
so we're going to go to the next page,
please, and come back to the presentation.

2920
03:23:07,560 --> 03:23:08,559
next slide.

2921
03:23:08,560 --> 03:23:09,559
okay.

2922
03:23:09,560 --> 03:23:12,575
what I want to talk about,
the organization that runs the

2923
03:23:12,586 --> 03:23:15,559
scores is the saddleback
valley unified school district.

2924
03:23:16,009 --> 03:23:19,559
and I want to point out some things
that are on this property tax dollar.

2925
03:23:20,459 --> 03:23:25,559
the saddleback unified school
district is unified, I'm sorry.

2926
03:23:26,209 --> 03:23:31,559
the saddleback valley unified general fund
gets 41.87% of our real estate tax dollar.

2927
03:23:31,959 --> 03:23:37,559
their education review augmentation
gets another 13.99%, 94%.

2928
03:23:37,560 --> 03:23:38,559
okay.

2929
03:23:38,560 --> 03:23:41,559
I'll please the next one that just
for grinn to see what the data is.

2930
03:23:41,709 --> 03:23:44,889
we're also funding right
now the capstone valley

2931
03:23:44,902 --> 03:23:48,559
school district and the
irvine unified school district.

2932
03:23:48,933 --> 03:23:52,486
we have a modest amount,
but still it's, you know,

2933
03:23:52,497 --> 03:23:56,559
irvine's a pretty big city
and capstone is not as either.

2934
03:23:56,959 --> 03:23:58,559
that's our modest numbers.

2935
03:23:59,109 --> 03:24:02,140
if you get out at the
bottom, laguna hills

2936
03:24:02,153 --> 03:24:05,559
general fund out of the
same dollar gets 5.14%.

2937
03:24:08,658 --> 03:24:16,559
we have another three items, the
csa 8 and csa 8a, 4.7 and 0.186.

2938
03:24:16,709 --> 03:24:19,559
and then the city hill, the
laguna hills city lighting fund.

2939
03:24:20,109 --> 03:24:22,109
those are the, all the
things on the bottom there.

2940
03:24:23,759 --> 03:24:27,096
that's all we get of that tax
dollar which corresponds to, I check

2941
03:24:27,109 --> 03:24:30,559
this with eric's afternoon to make
sure I was represented correctly.

2942
03:24:30,560 --> 03:24:34,559
we get about 14.3 million dollars for that.

2943
03:24:34,560 --> 03:24:35,559
okay.

2944
03:24:35,560 --> 03:24:41,559
the saddleback unified school
district gets 75 million, 75.4 million.

2945
03:24:42,158 --> 03:24:44,078
now you look at the
comparison of those numbers.

2946
03:24:44,109 --> 03:24:45,559
they get 75, we get 14.

2947
03:24:45,658 --> 03:24:49,559
they get 75 for taking care
of four schools in our city.

2948
03:24:50,408 --> 03:24:52,559
and that's all they do
with that 75 million dollars.

2949
03:24:52,609 --> 03:24:55,573
this is not a, this number is not
for, that's not the number they receive

2950
03:24:55,584 --> 03:24:58,559
from all different cities that in the
saddleback unified school district.

2951
03:24:58,560 --> 03:25:01,559
this is just us, that's
just our portion of it.

2952
03:25:01,560 --> 03:25:04,559
so that's 75 goods, just our four schools.

2953
03:25:05,209 --> 03:25:07,559
we have to take care of the entire city.

2954
03:25:08,058 --> 03:25:11,559
everything, lights, streets, you name it.

2955
03:25:12,183 --> 03:25:14,559
we take care of
everything for 14.3 million.

2956
03:25:15,509 --> 03:25:18,763
so what, eric's me is
that saddleback valley

2957
03:25:18,774 --> 03:25:22,559
school district should
pay for the crossing guards.

2958
03:25:23,009 --> 03:25:25,872
it's, it's, it's just, they're
just beating us, you know,

2959
03:25:25,885 --> 03:25:28,559
to death for something
that they should take care of.

2960
03:25:28,560 --> 03:25:32,559
they're making a huge truckload of money.

2961
03:25:32,658 --> 03:25:37,559
and, and let me give you the next page to
follow them out on the next page, please.

2962
03:25:38,359 --> 03:25:44,559
recently, sandlocking closed. So they
now, not only don't have four schools.

2963
03:25:45,509 --> 03:25:49,559
they have three schools, but I
would bet, although I'm not privy to it,

2964
03:25:49,959 --> 03:25:52,559
that the new private school that
when there is paying them rent.

2965
03:25:53,259 --> 03:25:55,619
because I can't see them
giving up their building for free.

2966
03:25:56,058 --> 03:25:58,233
so not only do we only
have only three schools now,

2967
03:25:58,245 --> 03:26:00,559
but they, they're probably
getting rent from that one.

2968
03:26:00,609 --> 03:26:04,559
which I want to put them about that,
but I won't propose in the future that we,

2969
03:26:05,459 --> 03:26:09,559
we go back to the county, which,
you know, makes up this dollar,

2970
03:26:10,209 --> 03:26:13,559
and complain and say, we
want, you know, 25% back.

2971
03:26:14,609 --> 03:26:15,559
which, which shouldn't
be charged for us anymore.

2972
03:26:15,560 --> 03:26:17,559
because they've only
got three schools, not four.

2973
03:26:18,609 --> 03:26:20,903
which would actually be
one of the biggest benefits

2974
03:26:20,904 --> 03:26:23,559
of the city, and
probably the city's history.

2975
03:26:24,158 --> 03:26:26,559
we would go from 14 million to 36 million.

2976
03:26:27,209 --> 03:26:29,559
but that's, that's a future
thing beside the point,

2977
03:26:29,808 --> 03:26:31,568
although it's pertinent
as whole discussion.

2978
03:26:32,408 --> 03:26:34,559
so they're making even more money.

2979
03:26:36,009 --> 03:26:39,559
and it's just, you know, I, I'm torn
because I want the kids, you know,

2980
03:26:39,560 --> 03:26:41,851
to have a school guard, I
guess that's the, that's the going

2981
03:26:41,852 --> 03:26:44,559
thing, you know, protect the
kids going across the street.

2982
03:26:44,908 --> 03:26:48,559
but this is, this is obscene that
the school district won't pay for it.

2983
03:26:49,209 --> 03:26:51,371
and I'm not particularly
happy about school district

2984
03:26:51,384 --> 03:26:53,559
because I've done some
research that passed on them.

2985
03:26:53,959 --> 03:26:57,559
I've gone over and we had a
discussion last year about baseball fields.

2986
03:26:57,908 --> 03:27:01,559
when my son played baseball, you know,
he's 40 years old now, so 30 years ago,

2987
03:27:02,459 --> 03:27:04,658
30 plus years ago, there
were three fields of valencia.

2988
03:27:05,259 --> 03:27:07,684
my fields will be, you know, you know,
parents will get out and kept them up.

2989
03:27:07,709 --> 03:27:10,147
one of the fields is just
so badly, been so badly

2990
03:27:10,159 --> 03:27:12,559
maintained that basically
doesn't exist anymore.

2991
03:27:12,658 --> 03:27:14,559
the other one is barely there.

2992
03:27:14,560 --> 03:27:17,559
and the third one is, isn't shambles.

2993
03:27:17,933 --> 03:27:19,559
it's, you know, the fence is coming down.

2994
03:27:19,560 --> 03:27:23,559
the, the infield is like really
not, not their grass or everything.

2995
03:27:23,560 --> 03:27:26,559
they don't even put their money
for the kids on the school ground.

2996
03:27:27,759 --> 03:27:28,559
they're, they're an organization.

2997
03:27:28,560 --> 03:27:30,559
these to, you know, shape up basically.

2998
03:27:30,560 --> 03:27:31,559
that's another issue.

2999
03:27:31,560 --> 03:27:34,559
but I, I just object to this, this thing.

3000
03:27:34,609 --> 03:27:38,559
and if we do pass it, I'm going to add
an amendment that we send them a bill.

3001
03:27:39,109 --> 03:27:41,559
they'll pay it, but I think
we, they deserve to pay it.

3002
03:27:41,560 --> 03:27:43,559
thank you.

3003
03:27:43,560 --> 03:27:44,560
okay.

3004
03:27:45,759 --> 03:27:46,559
councilman sweeney.

3005
03:27:46,560 --> 03:27:47,559
thank you, mayor.

3006
03:27:47,560 --> 03:27:49,559
great point, steve.

3007
03:27:49,560 --> 03:27:53,559
and, you know, yes, we
do have to protect the kids.

3008
03:27:53,609 --> 03:27:56,559
and I want to make
sure that we're doing that.

3009
03:27:57,509 --> 03:28:00,646
the six month proposal
does that include a crossing

3010
03:28:00,657 --> 03:28:07,559
guard over at the old san joaquin site for
the, like, good point charter schools or.

3011
03:28:07,560 --> 03:28:08,560
that's nothing objective.

3012
03:28:08,759 --> 03:28:11,559
we're paying for a private organization.

3013
03:28:11,908 --> 03:28:13,584
and so I don't know the
answer to that question.

3014
03:28:13,609 --> 03:28:14,559
yeah.

3015
03:28:14,560 --> 03:28:15,560
yeah.

3016
03:28:15,959 --> 03:28:17,559
and so the council does.

3017
03:28:17,560 --> 03:28:18,559
okay.

3018
03:28:18,560 --> 03:28:19,560
okay.

3019
03:28:19,959 --> 03:28:23,282
and then, if it's only
through the end of year,

3020
03:28:23,295 --> 03:28:26,559
how are we going to
start the bidding process?

3021
03:28:27,109 --> 03:28:28,559
are you going to start that soon?

3022
03:28:28,560 --> 03:28:29,559
or what does that look like?

3023
03:28:29,560 --> 03:28:30,559
we're going to start it soon.

3024
03:28:30,560 --> 03:28:31,559
okay.

3025
03:28:31,560 --> 03:28:32,559
we're going to start it
in the next few weeks.

3026
03:28:32,560 --> 03:28:33,559
okay.

3027
03:28:33,560 --> 03:28:34,559
perfect.

3028
03:28:34,560 --> 03:28:36,559
so we'll be, we'll be ready to go.

3029
03:28:36,560 --> 03:28:37,559
okay.

3030
03:28:37,560 --> 03:28:38,559
and, um, okay.

3031
03:28:38,560 --> 03:28:39,559
that's it for now.

3032
03:28:39,560 --> 03:28:40,559
thank you.

3033
03:28:40,560 --> 03:28:41,559
thank you.

3034
03:28:41,560 --> 03:28:42,560
okay.

3035
03:28:42,609 --> 03:28:44,559
I have some comments too based on that.

3036
03:28:44,560 --> 03:28:50,559
first of all, I'm
going to come in.

3037
03:28:50,560 --> 03:28:52,635
dave, that's some pretty interesting
numbers that you've got there.

3038
03:28:52,658 --> 03:28:57,559
and it is food for
thought in many respects.

3039
03:28:57,959 --> 03:29:03,559
we have a precedent here in
which the city has done this for,

3040
03:29:04,609 --> 03:29:06,559
I'm assuming, decades.

3041
03:29:06,560 --> 03:29:07,560
okay.

3042
03:29:07,709 --> 03:29:12,918
and what would councilman
wheeler's bringing up

3043
03:29:12,920 --> 03:29:15,559
is that the way to mess
something is a mess here.

3044
03:29:15,560 --> 03:29:18,559
and you can have something
I miss at any point in time.

3045
03:29:19,259 --> 03:29:21,559
and so I think it's worth looking into.

3046
03:29:21,560 --> 03:29:26,559
and I think it's worth talking to the,
you know, the school district about.

3047
03:29:27,109 --> 03:29:28,559
um, it's a little different.

3048
03:29:28,759 --> 03:29:30,559
what their responsibility is.

3049
03:29:30,560 --> 03:29:33,559
that's one of the things
that's not in the numbers.

3050
03:29:33,759 --> 03:29:36,120
um, you know, in terms
of, you know, teaching

3051
03:29:36,132 --> 03:29:38,559
in the classes and all
the rest of that stuff.

3052
03:29:39,459 --> 03:29:46,559
and so I think it really what it does is it
begs the question for having a discussion.

3053
03:29:47,308 --> 03:29:50,559
and, and yet in the meantime,

3054
03:29:51,058 --> 03:29:55,559
I don't want to see kids going
back to school starting tomorrow,

3055
03:29:55,859 --> 03:29:58,559
where the crossing guards aren't there.

3056
03:29:59,009 --> 03:30:03,500
and so I think that for the
next six months we need to

3057
03:30:03,501 --> 03:30:07,559
maintain the, the president
that we started 30 years ago.

3058
03:30:08,058 --> 03:30:12,559
um, I'm looking at to the whole audience,
but I keep looking over it's scott, sorry.

3059
03:30:12,683 --> 03:30:15,559
um, and, uh, cause
you're at, you know, but,

3060
03:30:15,560 --> 03:30:20,559
uh, so I would be in favor of this
from, you know, from that standpoint on,

3061
03:30:21,058 --> 03:30:24,559
uh, you know, alone by itself.

3062
03:30:24,560 --> 03:30:27,926
cause you, we, I don't want
to stop anything abruptly that

3063
03:30:28,027 --> 03:30:32,559
hasn't been looked into, uh,
appropriately, which means both.

3064
03:30:32,560 --> 03:30:37,559
he had a, you have to start a dialogue
with the, with the school district.

3065
03:30:37,560 --> 03:30:42,559
and maybe they'll have a million great
reasons as to why, you know, we're wrong.

3066
03:30:42,560 --> 03:30:44,559
uh, and even looking at it that way.

3067
03:30:44,759 --> 03:30:48,559
but in the meantime, I also think
that we need to look at, uh, you know,

3068
03:30:48,709 --> 03:30:52,559
the possibility that we will
continue and put the thing out to bid.

3069
03:30:52,560 --> 03:30:56,559
the one thing I noticed when
I went through, uh, you know,

3070
03:30:56,658 --> 03:31:00,559
the, the contract as they, as
they've got it was that, you know,

3071
03:31:00,560 --> 03:31:04,559
here in the world that we live in right
now, they wanted to 6% raise every,

3072
03:31:05,209 --> 03:31:09,559
every year and, uh, just, you
know, and so general rule.

3073
03:31:09,560 --> 03:31:11,559
and I thought, wait a minute.

3074
03:31:11,908 --> 03:31:14,559
so that's, I mentioned
that to our city manager.

3075
03:31:14,658 --> 03:31:18,559
and that is part of the reason
why, you know, whatever we do,

3076
03:31:18,560 --> 03:31:21,323
whether we decided it's our
responsibility or somebody

3077
03:31:21,324 --> 03:31:26,559
else's or shared responsibility
that, uh, it'd be bid.

3078
03:31:26,609 --> 03:31:28,290
and so that it isn't something
where we just keep going

3079
03:31:28,291 --> 03:31:33,559
on and on, you know, like
pollyanna and everything's okay.

3080
03:31:33,734 --> 03:31:35,559
so that's my comment.

3081
03:31:35,658 --> 03:31:38,559
and with that, uh, jared mathis.

3082
03:31:38,560 --> 03:31:42,559
yeah, I appreciate all the comments
and the numbers that they've put together.

3083
03:31:42,560 --> 03:31:48,559
I'll stand in unison and in full
throat support of, of lobbying the,

3084
03:31:48,560 --> 03:31:52,559
the unified school district
to take their responsibility.

3085
03:31:52,808 --> 03:31:55,559
I mean, we just approved
a private high school.

3086
03:31:55,560 --> 03:32:00,559
uh, we're not giving them,
uh, crosswalk facilities, right?

3087
03:32:00,783 --> 03:32:03,559
I mean, because it's a
private institution, right?

3088
03:32:03,609 --> 03:32:06,915
so no, no, no, no, no,
the private high school,

3089
03:32:06,916 --> 03:32:10,559
the one that we just,
uh, yeah, yeah, right.

3090
03:32:10,560 --> 03:32:11,559
so we're not doing it there.

3091
03:32:11,560 --> 03:32:12,560
so right.

3092
03:32:13,009 --> 03:32:16,559
the middle school that was
is replacing my keen, we are.

3093
03:32:16,560 --> 03:32:19,559
so it, that doesn't jive, right?

3094
03:32:19,560 --> 03:32:24,559
and so, um, for me, uh, I think that
there's a great argument to make

3095
03:32:24,808 --> 03:32:29,559
their, and I'd be happy to help make that
and really stick up for the unit hills.

3096
03:32:29,560 --> 03:32:31,559
so I think those are good points.

3097
03:32:31,709 --> 03:32:35,559
um, with that, I also agree that we
got to take care of our kids for now.

3098
03:32:35,560 --> 03:32:40,559
and I would move to approve
the six month, uh, contract, um,

3099
03:32:41,658 --> 03:32:44,559
subject to the bidding
happening, you know, right away.

3100
03:32:44,560 --> 03:32:47,559
and, and then we can fight that fight.

3101
03:32:47,560 --> 03:32:48,559
we have a second.

3102
03:32:48,560 --> 03:32:49,559
I'll second that.

3103
03:32:49,560 --> 03:32:50,559
all right.

3104
03:32:50,560 --> 03:32:55,559
I'm going to move to second it.

3105
03:32:55,560 --> 03:32:56,735
I'm going to go back to, uh, david.

3106
03:32:56,759 --> 03:32:57,559
um, yeah.

3107
03:32:57,560 --> 03:32:58,559
okay.

3108
03:32:58,560 --> 03:32:59,559
go ahead.

3109
03:32:59,560 --> 03:33:00,559
okay.

3110
03:33:00,560 --> 03:33:01,559
sorry.

3111
03:33:01,560 --> 03:33:02,559
you don't have a button to push.

3112
03:33:02,560 --> 03:33:03,584
um, I just looked up there.

3113
03:33:03,609 --> 03:33:07,559
I didn't know whether you're really
there because you seem to be in the dark.

3114
03:33:07,560 --> 03:33:10,559
I have a son sort of that is going down.

3115
03:33:10,560 --> 03:33:13,559
um, I haven't left from the seat.

3116
03:33:13,560 --> 03:33:16,559
so, um, so first of all, we have.

3117
03:33:16,560 --> 03:33:19,048
this is something that
has been mentioned on

3118
03:33:19,059 --> 03:33:21,559
a number of occasions
and a number of years.

3119
03:33:21,560 --> 03:33:26,559
and, and dave is his
excuse me counsel member.

3120
03:33:26,759 --> 03:33:33,559
wheeler has brought the
numbers to show exactly, um,

3121
03:33:34,259 --> 03:33:36,559
what the real picture is, which is really.

3122
03:33:37,134 --> 03:33:39,804
it's, it's quite nice
to be able to see and

3123
03:33:39,816 --> 03:33:42,559
understand because
the numbers are not fair.

3124
03:33:43,183 --> 03:33:48,559
and, um, we also pay for
an officer to be at the school.

3125
03:33:48,609 --> 03:33:52,559
that's in addition to the crosscards.

3126
03:33:52,609 --> 03:33:55,559
now I don't want to eliminate an officer.

3127
03:33:55,658 --> 03:33:58,074
that's not the point of
this, but I'm just trying to

3128
03:33:58,085 --> 03:34:00,559
point out that we offer a
lot more than just crossing

3129
03:34:00,560 --> 03:34:04,559
guards to the school and,
um, our resources are limited.

3130
03:34:05,234 --> 03:34:11,559
um, I, my children went to
private schools for various reasons.

3131
03:34:11,560 --> 03:34:14,936
and, um, parents
volunteered in the private in

3132
03:34:14,949 --> 03:34:18,559
the private school setting
to cross the children.

3133
03:34:18,808 --> 03:34:22,555
and, um, that's something
that the, that I, I've

3134
03:34:22,566 --> 03:34:26,559
seen I know that the
schools don't have the budget.

3135
03:34:26,759 --> 03:34:28,709
the private schools don't have
the budget to have crossing guard.

3136
03:34:28,734 --> 03:34:32,559
so it was parent volunteer or organized.

3137
03:34:50,559 --> 03:34:52,883
um, I do agree that we shouldn't
cut this off, but I do know that in the

3138
03:34:52,883 --> 03:34:55,143
past former city managers have
approached the school district and have

3139
03:34:55,155 --> 03:34:57,452
had discussions and we essentially
were denied any discussions and they

3140
03:34:57,452 --> 03:34:59,684
basically said it's because the
children are crossing on our streets.

3141
03:34:59,709 --> 03:35:03,655
so I think that we need to have
a further discussion on where

3142
03:35:03,666 --> 03:35:07,559
children are crossing or how
children are getting to school.

3143
03:35:15,859 --> 03:35:18,122
perhaps they should maybe
we should try to close off the

3144
03:35:18,122 --> 03:35:20,387
street for a little bit of
time so that the children can

3145
03:35:20,398 --> 03:35:22,829
safely get into valencia and
then that might resolve one and

3146
03:35:22,829 --> 03:35:25,138
maybe perhaps find other
solutions for the other schools.

3147
03:35:34,984 --> 03:35:36,847
I think we should have
more discussions, but I

3148
03:35:36,847 --> 03:35:38,872
think we should anticipate
the, um, the past which

3149
03:35:38,885 --> 03:35:40,794
was this, uh, saddleback
as always in the past,

3150
03:35:40,794 --> 03:35:42,744
um, communicated to
the city that they will not.

3151
03:35:47,559 --> 03:35:51,444
uh, pay for the crossing guards and
they have their own justifications as to

3152
03:35:51,457 --> 03:35:55,559
why so I think we should find other
solutions if that is what we're looking for.

3153
03:35:56,459 --> 03:35:57,559
okay, thank you.

3154
03:35:57,658 --> 03:35:59,559
um, where are we at here?

3155
03:35:59,808 --> 03:36:02,559
so we're, looks like a jerk,
did you have something?

3156
03:36:02,560 --> 03:36:03,560
no.

3157
03:36:05,559 --> 03:36:09,520
yeah, I just want to ask you to
entertain a, a, uh, amendment change to

3158
03:36:09,531 --> 03:36:13,559
along with what you said, add a, I
think that we'll send a bill to them.

3159
03:36:13,560 --> 03:36:14,559
bob, they'll pay it.

3160
03:36:14,560 --> 03:36:18,559
we'll send a bill.

3161
03:36:20,559 --> 03:36:28,559
that's, uh, a, uh, amended, uh,
motion to amend any seconds.

3162
03:36:28,560 --> 03:36:29,560
okay.

3163
03:36:30,158 --> 03:36:34,559
okay, we got a second moved in second.

3164
03:36:35,408 --> 03:36:37,559
any further discussion?

3165
03:36:38,959 --> 03:36:44,559
let's vote on the amended motion.

3166
03:36:44,560 --> 03:36:47,559
to send a bill.

3167
03:36:47,959 --> 03:36:51,246
just to clarify this is to approve
staff, staff recommendation

3168
03:36:51,259 --> 03:36:54,559
in addition to sending the
school district they bill for this.

3169
03:36:54,609 --> 03:36:55,609
okay.

3170
03:36:56,259 --> 03:37:00,559
um, council member sweeney.

3171
03:37:00,709 --> 03:37:04,559
uh, aye. Mayor caskey.

3172
03:37:04,859 --> 03:37:06,559
um, seems ridiculous to me.

3173
03:37:07,058 --> 03:37:09,859
no, because I'd rather
have a discussion where

3174
03:37:09,870 --> 03:37:12,559
you're really walking
the door and sit down.

3175
03:37:12,560 --> 03:37:13,559
council member wheeler.

3176
03:37:13,560 --> 03:37:14,560
aye.

3177
03:37:20,709 --> 03:37:28,559
council member, I think
that it will create a discussion.

3178
03:37:32,158 --> 03:37:33,559
that's true.

3179
03:37:34,908 --> 03:37:35,908
okay.

3180
03:37:36,158 --> 03:37:42,559
that leaves us to, uh, item
number 3.3 and turn to our city clerk.

3181
03:37:43,709 --> 03:37:44,559
can you see that?

3182
03:37:44,560 --> 03:37:45,559
is that correct?

3183
03:37:45,560 --> 03:37:46,559
you're going to.

3184
03:37:46,560 --> 03:37:47,559
yes.

3185
03:37:47,560 --> 03:37:48,559
uh, thank you, mayor.

3186
03:37:48,560 --> 03:37:50,559
um, so this item was placed on the agenda.

3187
03:37:50,658 --> 03:37:56,559
um, so the filing period for the november
3, 2026 election ended on august 7th.

3188
03:37:56,560 --> 03:37:57,560
at 5 p.m.

3189
03:37:57,759 --> 03:38:02,559
at that time, there was only one,
uh, qualified candidate for district two.

3190
03:38:03,033 --> 03:38:09,559
under the, uh, california
elections code, uh, 10229.

3191
03:38:09,560 --> 03:38:11,503
and then there's only
one candidate or zero

3192
03:38:11,514 --> 03:38:13,559
candidates that gives
the council the ability

3193
03:38:13,560 --> 03:38:17,048
to either appoint the
one candidate and then

3194
03:38:17,059 --> 03:38:23,559
cancel the election or allow the
election to go on as, uh, called.

3195
03:38:23,560 --> 03:38:26,184
and so this item tonight,
uh, before you tonight

3196
03:38:26,197 --> 03:38:28,559
is giving you that
option of allow the, uh,

3197
03:38:28,783 --> 03:38:31,559
uh, election for
district two specifically

3198
03:38:31,572 --> 03:38:34,559
to go to, um, the ballot
in november with the

3199
03:38:34,584 --> 03:38:37,146
one candidate on it,
or as a council, you can

3200
03:38:37,157 --> 03:38:39,559
appoint the one
qualified candidate, which

3201
03:38:39,609 --> 03:38:41,961
would be joshua
sweeney to district two and

3202
03:38:41,974 --> 03:38:44,559
then cancel the district
to election districts.

3203
03:38:44,560 --> 03:38:47,559
one and four would go on as planned.

3204
03:38:47,808 --> 03:38:49,559
and so it'd just be district
two that would be canceled.

3205
03:38:49,560 --> 03:38:52,559
um, and, uh, mr. Sweeney
would be appointed.

3206
03:38:52,560 --> 03:38:54,683
and then that would
make it to where no writing

3207
03:38:54,695 --> 03:38:57,559
candidates would be
accepted for district two ballots.

3208
03:38:57,560 --> 03:38:58,559
okay.

3209
03:38:58,560 --> 03:38:59,559
I have a quick question.

3210
03:38:59,560 --> 03:39:00,560
yes.

3211
03:39:03,209 --> 03:39:07,559
so that appointment, um,
and I've read all this stuff.

3212
03:39:07,560 --> 03:39:08,560
I understand.

3213
03:39:10,109 --> 03:39:12,709
I mean, there's other cities that
are doing that right around us.

3214
03:39:12,808 --> 03:39:16,559
um, is for four years or
is it till the next election?

3215
03:39:16,759 --> 03:39:20,559
it would be the complete term for that
district, which would be before your term.

3216
03:39:21,158 --> 03:39:23,559
and that's based on california law.

3217
03:39:23,560 --> 03:39:24,559
yes.

3218
03:39:24,560 --> 03:39:25,559
okay.

3219
03:39:25,560 --> 03:39:26,559
thank you.

3220
03:39:26,560 --> 03:39:31,559
so we'll put it up to the next person
on the list, which would be dave.

3221
03:39:32,058 --> 03:39:33,559
now a question for staff.

3222
03:39:33,560 --> 03:39:36,559
uh, this has happened twice in the past.

3223
03:39:36,560 --> 03:39:37,560
what was done that time?

3224
03:39:38,259 --> 03:39:39,559
those times.

3225
03:39:39,959 --> 03:39:41,559
with a cancellation of election?

3226
03:39:42,558 --> 03:39:45,559
there was a, there was at least
two, two times in the past history.

3227
03:39:45,634 --> 03:39:48,033
there was going to hills where
there was only one candidate.

3228
03:39:48,259 --> 03:39:50,658
and we didn't have district,
but it was for the whole thing.

3229
03:39:50,808 --> 03:39:55,559
there were only, you know, they, uh, there
was only number of candidates qualified

3230
03:39:56,009 --> 03:39:57,559
as there were offices.

3231
03:39:57,933 --> 03:39:59,559
so what happened those two times?

3232
03:39:59,709 --> 03:40:02,559
did the election go through or
was it, or was it similar appointment?

3233
03:40:02,908 --> 03:40:04,559
uh, I would not be able to speak to those.

3234
03:40:04,560 --> 03:40:07,559
I would be able to, I would, I
could find that information for you.

3235
03:40:07,759 --> 03:40:11,559
but, um, since it's a district election,
we would be able to cancel this, um,

3236
03:40:11,759 --> 03:40:15,559
at larger a little bit different.

3237
03:40:15,560 --> 03:40:16,560
okay.

3238
03:40:16,859 --> 03:40:21,559
and that, but that would,
uh, also cancel the, you know,

3239
03:40:22,308 --> 03:40:24,559
I guess the, uh, voters right to right in.

3240
03:40:24,560 --> 03:40:25,560
it would.

3241
03:40:26,359 --> 03:40:29,559
is that a, I guess I'll
need a press on that.

3242
03:40:29,560 --> 03:40:31,559
do you have any?

3243
03:40:32,209 --> 03:40:33,559
in the city no.

3244
03:40:33,560 --> 03:40:37,559
um, but that is under state law,
the council has that ability to do that.

3245
03:40:37,560 --> 03:40:38,559
okay.

3246
03:40:38,560 --> 03:40:39,560
thank you.

3247
03:40:40,509 --> 03:40:42,559
um, okay.

3248
03:40:43,959 --> 03:40:45,559
next, uh, chair at memphis.

3249
03:40:45,560 --> 03:40:46,559
thank you, mr. Mayor.

3250
03:40:46,560 --> 03:40:48,559
um, just responding to that question.

3251
03:40:48,560 --> 03:40:52,084
I'm fairly sure, um, the
most recent election in

3252
03:40:52,096 --> 03:40:55,559
laguna niguel after
they switched to districts.

3253
03:40:55,859 --> 03:40:58,559
every single one of the
candidates were unopposed.

3254
03:40:58,759 --> 03:41:00,559
and they canceled the election altogether.

3255
03:41:01,109 --> 03:41:04,618
um, so not laguna
hills example, but laguna

3256
03:41:04,629 --> 03:41:08,559
niguel, um, right next
door handled it that way.

3257
03:41:08,560 --> 03:41:12,559
there's similar thing in
dana point right now too.

3258
03:41:12,609 --> 03:41:13,559
oh, dana.

3259
03:41:13,560 --> 03:41:14,559
okay.

3260
03:41:14,560 --> 03:41:15,559
next on those.

3261
03:41:15,560 --> 03:41:17,559
oh, but, uh, so anyway.

3262
03:41:17,759 --> 03:41:24,559
so, um, from an efficiency standpoint and,
uh, because there's no other candidate.

3263
03:41:24,560 --> 03:41:28,506
and because I believe in
council member sweeney,

3264
03:41:28,519 --> 03:41:35,559
I would move, uh, to, um, appoint
him to district to, uh, council.

3265
03:41:35,560 --> 03:41:36,559
is that a motion?

3266
03:41:36,560 --> 03:41:37,559
that's a motion.

3267
03:41:37,560 --> 03:41:38,559
okay.

3268
03:41:38,560 --> 03:41:39,559
do we have a second?

3269
03:41:39,560 --> 03:41:40,560
I'll second.

3270
03:41:40,609 --> 03:41:44,559
um, josh, you're next on the.

3271
03:41:45,408 --> 03:41:47,559
well, thank you.

3272
03:41:47,560 --> 03:41:50,836
uh, no, that was a great
point by mayor pro tem mathis

3273
03:41:50,887 --> 03:41:53,559
is that, uh, laguna niguel
just did the same thing.

3274
03:41:54,158 --> 03:41:55,559
they had two that were unopposed.

3275
03:41:55,759 --> 03:41:57,559
and so they, they were
appointed last night.

3276
03:41:57,560 --> 03:41:58,560
and that was canceled.

3277
03:41:59,509 --> 03:42:02,559
and then as well as dana point had
somebody that was running unopposed.

3278
03:42:03,009 --> 03:42:04,559
and they canceled that one as well.

3279
03:42:04,834 --> 03:42:07,559
so it's really just more of,
uh, of saving the city money.

3280
03:42:07,560 --> 03:42:11,559
it's a cost savings, not to be put on
the ballot and have, have that on there.

3281
03:42:12,009 --> 03:42:15,559
so it really will save the,
the city some, some money.

3282
03:42:15,808 --> 03:42:19,559
um, and, so yeah, that's,
that's where that's, that's going.

3283
03:42:19,933 --> 03:42:24,559
but, uh, I have a question.

3284
03:42:25,459 --> 03:42:27,559
and then we'll go to you, erica.

3285
03:42:27,709 --> 03:42:31,559
and that has to do with the money thing.

3286
03:42:31,560 --> 03:42:32,560
yeah.

3287
03:42:32,759 --> 03:42:38,559
as I understand it, it would save between
$10 and $12,000 to the city to do this.

3288
03:42:38,560 --> 03:42:40,559
could you explain that a little bit more?

3289
03:42:40,560 --> 03:42:41,560
yes.

3290
03:42:42,009 --> 03:42:45,559
so, um, the estimate from the
county, so they do it by a cost per voter.

3291
03:42:46,009 --> 03:42:48,219
um, so the orange
county registered voters

3292
03:42:48,231 --> 03:42:50,559
estimated that for
the district to election,

3293
03:42:50,560 --> 03:42:58,559
it would be between $10,401 and $12,56 to
run specifically the district to election.

3294
03:42:59,109 --> 03:43:01,559
so that savings, there
would be savings in there.

3295
03:43:01,658 --> 03:43:05,097
um, and additionally, that's
not included in this estimate

3296
03:43:05,110 --> 03:43:08,559
is the city's cost of the
publication of election notices.

3297
03:43:08,908 --> 03:43:10,784
and then that we have
to get those translated

3298
03:43:10,797 --> 03:43:12,559
and then also send
them to the newspapers.

3299
03:43:12,609 --> 03:43:14,559
so those costs are not included.

3300
03:43:15,009 --> 03:43:18,626
uh, just because we would not
be able to get a, um, a complete

3301
03:43:18,638 --> 03:43:22,559
estimate without sending the
draft to all the translation services.

3302
03:43:23,259 --> 03:43:26,559
and into the newspapers to get
that estimate of what that would cost.

3303
03:43:26,609 --> 03:43:29,849
however, that would be,
um, looking at the election

3304
03:43:29,861 --> 03:43:33,559
notices for calling the
election, it was in the thousands.

3305
03:43:34,759 --> 03:43:37,328
okay. So we would be able to
reduce the costs on the translation

3306
03:43:37,341 --> 03:43:39,559
because we would not be
publishing the district to one.

3307
03:43:39,808 --> 03:43:41,559
and then as well as all to the newspapers.

3308
03:43:41,560 --> 03:43:42,559
all right.

3309
03:43:42,560 --> 03:43:43,560
thank you.

3310
03:43:43,759 --> 03:43:45,559
erica, did you have any comments?

3311
03:43:45,560 --> 03:43:46,559
yes.

3312
03:43:46,560 --> 03:43:47,559
I'm sorry.

3313
03:43:47,560 --> 03:43:48,559
hang on, josh.

3314
03:43:48,560 --> 03:43:51,559
I, I forgot to add when I,
when I first spoke, I apologize.

3315
03:43:52,109 --> 03:43:55,731
but before I addressed the item, I just
wanted to clarify with the city attorney

3316
03:43:55,744 --> 03:43:59,559
and city clerk, uh, to confirm for the
record that all requirements under elections,

3317
03:44:00,009 --> 03:44:03,659
code section 10229 have
been satisfied and that I

3318
03:44:03,672 --> 03:44:07,559
may legally participate
in this discussion and vote.

3319
03:44:07,560 --> 03:44:10,559
trying to turn my microphone on.

3320
03:44:11,408 --> 03:44:12,559
I think we have to hang on.

3321
03:44:12,560 --> 03:44:15,559
erica, we have a comment
from, uh, our city attorney.

3322
03:44:15,560 --> 03:44:16,560
so that's correct.

3323
03:44:16,609 --> 03:44:19,750
all, uh, requirements of the
elections code have been complied

3324
03:44:19,762 --> 03:44:22,559
with to take this vote and
you can vote on this matter.

3325
03:44:22,560 --> 03:44:23,559
okay.

3326
03:44:23,560 --> 03:44:24,559
okay.

3327
03:44:24,560 --> 03:44:25,560
erica.

3328
03:44:28,683 --> 03:44:32,673
so, um, I, I understand that we
have two cities that have voted,

3329
03:44:32,684 --> 03:44:36,559
um, on the, or that have made
decisions, which, which is fine.

3330
03:44:37,009 --> 03:44:41,559
um, I have concerns because
we had a couple of times.

3331
03:44:45,759 --> 03:44:49,703
um, we've had individuals where,
for example, uh, mayor caskey decided

3332
03:44:49,716 --> 03:44:53,559
to run because he, um, I mean, he
was essentially, and, and opposed.

3333
03:44:55,559 --> 03:44:59,390
and he did and, and made
the decision that it was

3334
03:44:59,403 --> 03:45:03,559
important to give the
opportunity for people to vote.

3335
03:45:04,308 --> 03:45:07,559
um, and not take that
right away from the people.

3336
03:45:08,283 --> 03:45:12,559
and that doesn't mean that, you know, the,
you could create a complicated election.

3337
03:45:12,560 --> 03:45:18,559
it just means that, you know, and you saw
the results from mayor caskey's election.

3338
03:45:18,609 --> 03:45:20,412
he did quite well.

3339
03:45:20,436 --> 03:45:25,009
and, and he was still
unopposed, but he did it.

3340
03:45:25,033 --> 03:45:31,503
and I, I respect that because of the
passion that mayor caskey had, which

3341
03:45:31,527 --> 03:45:36,902
was, hey, I want to provide the
residents an opportunity to vote for me.

3342
03:45:36,926 --> 03:45:42,174
so um, I, I do have my
reservations and concerns

3343
03:45:42,174 --> 03:45:46,767
with respect to, um,
with respect to that,

3344
03:45:46,791 --> 03:45:50,711
because I, I just feel
that while other cities

3345
03:45:50,711 --> 03:45:54,802
have made those
decisions, it was all districts.

3346
03:45:54,826 --> 03:45:59,089
and I think we're in a situation
where it's not all districts.

3347
03:45:59,089 --> 03:46:03,353
we have other people running.
And what is that kind of send to

3348
03:46:03,377 --> 03:46:06,923
other areas. Okay. So your
district doesn't. So that means, or

3349
03:46:06,923 --> 03:46:10,584
just because, you know, no
one else is running in your district.

3350
03:46:10,609 --> 03:46:16,559
that means that, um, that the other
districts have to go through those processes.

3351
03:46:16,583 --> 03:46:20,078
so I just, I feel a little
different because it's not

3352
03:46:20,078 --> 03:46:23,638
apples to apples. And if, I
mean, you have a city wide

3353
03:46:23,662 --> 03:46:27,028
situation versus this isn't.
And I don't. I think the

3354
03:46:27,052 --> 03:46:31,869
optics of it doesn't look
good for potential people.

3355
03:46:33,778 --> 03:46:39,061
I think that it's important to
be in a position where we are

3356
03:46:39,107 --> 03:46:45,721
fair, especially for everyone.
And, I mean, it's the work is

3357
03:46:45,745 --> 03:46:48,254
different if you're unopposed
substantially different, but the

3358
03:46:53,978 --> 03:46:56,529
optics of being fair to everyone
who is who has taken the time.

3359
03:47:04,559 --> 03:47:06,476
and I think it's important to
show as a leader, somebody

3360
03:47:06,476 --> 03:47:08,495
who's a leader showing that
they're willing to put the work

3361
03:47:08,507 --> 03:47:10,601
in as such as what caskey and
their caskey did, which was, you

3362
03:47:10,601 --> 03:47:12,559
know, I was running that
very election and, and he didn't.

3363
03:47:12,560 --> 03:47:14,559
mayor caskey didn't have to do it.

3364
03:47:22,559 --> 03:47:25,170
and he knew that he wanted to
show his leadership and show that he

3365
03:47:25,170 --> 03:47:27,700
was a leader and not somebody
that wanted to take these way out.

3366
03:47:27,712 --> 03:47:30,289
so anyway, I just have to say
that because I think it's important

3367
03:47:30,289 --> 03:47:32,985
when you set a precedent in a
standard in the city to not flip flop.

3368
03:47:33,009 --> 03:47:40,559
and, and that's just, I think we, we need
to be cognizant and aware of consistency.

3369
03:47:41,658 --> 03:47:44,559
okay. Mayor, I'm sorry, we do have
one signed up to speak on this item.

3370
03:47:45,109 --> 03:47:46,559
oh, I didn't even know.

3371
03:47:46,560 --> 03:47:48,559
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

3372
03:47:48,560 --> 03:47:49,559
I should have asked.

3373
03:47:49,560 --> 03:47:50,559
I apologize.

3374
03:47:50,560 --> 03:47:54,559
so why don't you go do your public speaker.
I do have one other item.

3375
03:47:54,560 --> 03:47:57,559
I, I would have one I think
I would like to say since.

3376
03:47:57,560 --> 03:47:58,559
okay.

3377
03:47:58,560 --> 03:47:59,559
do you want me to call the speaker?

3378
03:47:59,560 --> 03:48:00,560
yes.

3379
03:48:00,609 --> 03:48:03,559
scott miller.

3380
03:48:03,808 --> 03:48:05,559
I'm looking around.

3381
03:48:05,709 --> 03:48:06,709
I, yeah.

3382
03:48:06,859 --> 03:48:09,559
I was waiting to see
someone rush in the door.

3383
03:48:09,560 --> 03:48:13,018
right. I don't rule mayor city
council. Thank you so much

3384
03:48:13,030 --> 03:48:16,559
for the opportunity to speak
before your presence tonight.

3385
03:48:16,709 --> 03:48:20,197
uh, this is an important
election, not only for

3386
03:48:20,209 --> 03:48:23,559
us here in laguna
hills, but for the country.

3387
03:48:23,609 --> 03:48:30,559
and, you know, I spent the last three years
coming to every single council meeting.

3388
03:48:30,560 --> 03:48:34,081
the two hour meetings, the
four hour meetings, the six

3389
03:48:34,093 --> 03:48:37,559
hour meetings and the
seven point five hour meetings.

3390
03:48:42,559 --> 03:48:46,548
and I think I've learned some things.
Number one, this council is very good at

3391
03:48:46,559 --> 03:48:50,559
understanding that you've been handed
a lot of very tough financial positions.

3392
03:48:50,609 --> 03:48:57,559
and you work very hard to overcome
those positions and save tax dollars.

3393
03:48:59,734 --> 03:49:03,603
so that's the number, that's
one of the reasons why I'm asking

3394
03:49:03,615 --> 03:49:07,559
you to appoint mr. Sweeney as
a second district representative.

3395
03:49:09,509 --> 03:49:12,871
the other is this, the
filing period was open

3396
03:49:12,884 --> 03:49:16,559
and well known to the
entire all three districts.

3397
03:49:16,658 --> 03:49:22,559
we had political parties out
campaigning in all three districts.

3398
03:49:24,559 --> 03:49:28,574
we ended up with a one on one race
in the first district. And now we've ended

3399
03:49:28,585 --> 03:49:32,559
up with a two on two race from two
different parties in the fourth district.

3400
03:49:33,109 --> 03:49:36,641
all because there were
political groups out there

3401
03:49:36,654 --> 03:49:40,559
that were campaigning
months before the filing period.

3402
03:49:46,459 --> 03:49:49,924
so, each district had the opportunity
to give their voice. And the voice

3403
03:49:49,936 --> 03:49:53,559
of the second district had the same
opportunity as all the other districts.

3404
03:49:53,560 --> 03:49:56,537
no rights were taken
away from them.

3405
03:49:56,549 --> 03:50:01,559
nobody was given a short
handed opportunity in this election.

3406
03:50:07,109 --> 03:50:10,968
but their message from the second district
was loud and clear that the incumbent

3407
03:50:10,979 --> 03:50:14,559
and the current leadership is what
they want. It's what they're selecting.

3408
03:50:26,559 --> 03:50:28,743
no one has been given a
disadvantage in this election.

3409
03:50:28,743 --> 03:50:30,846
and I am asking those who
live outside of the second

3410
03:50:30,859 --> 03:50:32,968
district to support the
voice of those voters in the

3411
03:50:32,968 --> 03:50:35,239
second district because
that's why we went to districts.

3412
03:50:37,559 --> 03:50:41,548
to make sure there was no outside
influence from outside of electoral

3413
03:50:41,559 --> 03:50:45,559
districts and the people of those
districts can speak for themselves.

3414
03:50:50,559 --> 03:50:54,575
so, for those reasons, I am asking
the council, I'm encouraging you to

3415
03:50:54,587 --> 03:50:58,559
give you unanimous appointment
to mr. Sweeney in the second district.

3416
03:50:58,908 --> 03:51:00,559
thank you so much.

3417
03:51:02,058 --> 03:51:08,559
thank you, mr. Miller.
Okay, so I have some comments to say.

3418
03:51:16,609 --> 03:51:18,509
but I'm going to actually
preface that with the

3419
03:51:18,509 --> 03:51:20,531
fact that I don't see a
council position in a town

3420
03:51:20,543 --> 03:51:22,572
of our size and even
much larger in fact until you

3421
03:51:22,572 --> 03:51:24,559
get to something really
large as being political.

3422
03:51:24,560 --> 03:51:29,345
we're here to take care of the streets.
We're here to take care of our parks.

3423
03:51:29,358 --> 03:51:32,559
we're here to first and
foremost for public safety.

3424
03:51:36,808 --> 03:51:40,573
and we have tight budgets
and all the things that we just

3425
03:51:40,584 --> 03:51:44,559
mentioned by a public comment.
And, you know, it's our town.

3426
03:51:48,658 --> 03:51:50,414
I mean, this is not
about democrats and

3427
03:51:50,414 --> 03:51:52,664
republicans and dsa
and all the rest of that. This

3428
03:51:52,675 --> 03:51:54,572
is about taking care
of our neighbors. And

3429
03:51:54,572 --> 03:51:56,559
it's small enough to
be our neighbors, okay.

3430
03:52:00,808 --> 03:52:04,645
so, but I do want to clarify a
couple of things about the fact that I

3431
03:52:04,656 --> 03:52:08,559
ran since erica brought it up.
Number one, my situation was different.

3432
03:52:16,609 --> 03:52:20,432
first of all, it was citywide. And I was
appointed when a council member basically

3433
03:52:20,443 --> 03:52:22,572
resigned about six or
eight months into their

3434
03:52:22,572 --> 03:52:24,559
four-year term and
moved to another state.

3435
03:52:36,559 --> 03:52:38,674
and I decided that I
interviewed for the project

3436
03:52:38,674 --> 03:52:40,568
or for the project for
the council position

3437
03:52:40,581 --> 03:52:42,570
and the council made a
decision to appoint me

3438
03:52:42,570 --> 03:52:44,559
from four candidates
and that was that, okay.

3439
03:53:05,859 --> 03:53:09,320
I had my reasons. We're going into all that
stuff. But I was told at that time, I was

3440
03:53:09,320 --> 03:53:09,483
told

3441
03:53:09,483 --> 03:53:12,822
at that time that I would have to run in
the next election because I was appointed

3442
03:53:12,822 --> 03:53:13,066
and it

3443
03:53:13,078 --> 03:53:16,382
was a position that was made vacant from
a council member who had been voted on a

3444
03:53:16,382 --> 03:53:16,627
little

3445
03:53:16,627 --> 03:53:19,971
different than me deciding that I wanted
to run to show my leadership or something

3446
03:53:19,971 --> 03:53:20,379
like that.

3447
03:53:20,609 --> 03:53:22,592
and so, I did it. And it
was citywide. And by the

3448
03:53:22,592 --> 03:53:24,736
way, it was a great experience
for me that having not

3449
03:53:24,748 --> 03:53:26,818
done it ever before in
my life to get out there and

3450
03:53:26,818 --> 03:53:28,968
meet people and know
people and all the rest of that.

3451
03:53:49,559 --> 03:53:52,623
there was nothing to do with the
optics. And yeah, and here's the other side

3452
03:53:52,623 --> 03:53:55,768
of that. Because I was the only one on
the ballot, what did I get? 100% of the

3453
03:53:55,780 --> 03:53:58,809
vote, okay. So, if I could have saved
my city, let's say $10,000, two and a

3454
03:53:58,809 --> 03:54:01,959
half years ago or whatever it was two
years ago to not have to deal with that.

3455
03:54:10,559 --> 03:54:12,863
and when it was obvious, I
mean, if anything, it saved my

3456
03:54:12,863 --> 03:54:15,167
ego that I got 100% of the
vote. But I don't believe that

3457
03:54:15,180 --> 03:54:17,450
there was any right in
campaign or any, all of that just

3458
03:54:17,450 --> 03:54:19,639
is abhorrent to me, especially
with our new districts.

3459
03:54:27,709 --> 03:54:30,053
I really feel that we need to
incubate those in a way that

3460
03:54:30,053 --> 03:54:32,316
they don't become political
in that kind of sense of the

3461
03:54:32,328 --> 03:54:34,799
word or one district is working
in another district to change

3462
03:54:34,799 --> 03:54:37,148
things around and/or political
party or any of that stuff.

3463
03:54:43,559 --> 03:54:45,510
so, dan with the
optics, I'm totally in favor

3464
03:54:45,510 --> 03:54:47,548
of this, and I'm totally
in favor of saving our

3465
03:54:47,559 --> 03:54:49,559
town $12,000 for something
as obvious what the

3466
03:54:49,559 --> 03:54:51,559
outcome is going to be.
So, that's my comment.

3467
03:55:09,609 --> 03:55:12,634
do we have anybody else, jared, do
you want to? Sure, your next step. Yeah,

3468
03:55:12,634 --> 03:55:15,538
thank you, mr. Mayor. I second
everything you just said. And I just want

3469
03:55:15,549 --> 03:55:18,378
to reiterate something that
commissioner miller, I think outlined very

3470
03:55:18,378 --> 03:55:21,328
succinctly and correctly in that the
district two voters have been heard.

3471
03:55:29,559 --> 03:55:33,522
they chose not to run against joshua
sweeney. And that is saying something because

3472
03:55:33,534 --> 03:55:37,559
they want him to serve. And so, they voiced
their vote already by not opposing him.

3473
03:55:53,759 --> 03:55:56,124
and so, I take exception to the idea that
somehow voters are being canceled if we

3474
03:55:56,124 --> 03:55:58,489
vote to appoint him. I don't think that's
the case at all. I think it's quite the

3475
03:55:58,502 --> 03:56:01,019
opposite. And I think that joshua sweeney,
councilman sweeney, should be commended for

3476
03:56:01,019 --> 03:56:03,536
the service that he's given district to vote
in that way to not oppose your candidacy.

3477
03:56:03,559 --> 03:56:07,548
and as far as being willing to serve and
being able to work and being willing to work

3478
03:56:07,559 --> 03:56:11,559
for the office, anybody that puts their name
on the ballot is making that commitment.

3479
03:56:24,559 --> 03:56:26,943
and so, that's not a measure,
running a campaign or not, is

3480
03:56:26,943 --> 03:56:29,407
not a measure of your willingness
to serve. And I think we've

3481
03:56:29,420 --> 03:56:31,769
seen other examples of that.
So, I just want to make those

3482
03:56:31,769 --> 03:56:34,239
points and I wish councilman
sweeney another good four years.

3483
03:56:39,559 --> 03:56:41,944
next up, councilman sweeney.
Thank you, mayor. Because this

3484
03:56:41,944 --> 03:56:44,208
item involves my own council
seat, I wanted to recognize

3485
03:56:44,219 --> 03:56:46,491
the importance of addressing
it openly and transparently

3486
03:56:46,491 --> 03:56:48,600
like we're doing. And the
facts are straightforward.

3487
03:57:00,559 --> 03:57:04,024
the city conducted an open and open candidate
process in which every eligible district

3488
03:57:04,024 --> 03:57:07,448
to resident had the same opportunity to
qualify for the ballot. When filing closed, I

3489
03:57:07,459 --> 03:57:10,930
was the only candidate. Meanwhile, six
candidates qualify for two other council seats,

3490
03:57:10,930 --> 03:57:14,360
two in district one and four in district
four. And those voters have choices to make.

3491
03:57:20,009 --> 03:57:23,193
district two does not have a contested
race. So, I believe in the absence of an

3492
03:57:23,193 --> 03:57:26,458
opponent is a meaningful reflection of
the confidence district two residents have

3493
03:57:26,469 --> 03:57:29,578
placed in my service. And if there have
been significant demand for different

3494
03:57:29,578 --> 03:57:32,808
representation, the opportunity existed
for someone to step forward. No one did.

3495
03:57:40,709 --> 03:57:43,892
I do not take that confidence for granted,
I consider an obligation to continue

3496
03:57:43,892 --> 03:57:47,316
earning it every day. And I have worked to
be accessible, responsible, responsive and

3497
03:57:47,328 --> 03:57:50,799
focused on results, supporting strong public
safety, responsible financial management,

3498
03:57:50,799 --> 03:57:54,189
thoughtful economic development, and an
excellent quality of life for our residents.

3499
03:57:55,559 --> 03:57:57,702
and this decision is also
about fiscal responsibility

3500
03:57:57,702 --> 03:58:00,047
because state law provides a
process for appointing a sole

3501
03:58:00,058 --> 03:58:02,490
qualified candidate because
taxpayers should not be required

3502
03:58:02,490 --> 03:58:04,760
to fund an election where
there is no contest to decide.

3503
03:58:06,539 --> 03:58:10,198
the city budget approximately
$45,000 for the 2026 municipal election

3504
03:58:10,209 --> 03:58:14,040
and districts one and four will still
require elections but removing the

3505
03:58:14,040 --> 03:58:18,144
contested district two race
should avoid unnecessary

3506
03:58:18,156 --> 03:58:21,559
ballot processing and
administrative costs.

3507
03:58:33,158 --> 03:58:36,143
so, spending taxpayer money on an
uncontested race would not give district

3508
03:58:36,143 --> 03:58:39,167
two voters a choice between candidates
that would merely spend public funds

3509
03:58:39,180 --> 03:58:42,129
to confirm the only possible outcome.
And the decision should be based on

3510
03:58:42,129 --> 03:58:44,998
the law, the facts, fiscal responsibility
and respect for district two.

3511
03:58:50,058 --> 03:58:52,442
not personalities or political
disagreements, rejecting the

3512
03:58:52,442 --> 03:58:54,947
appointment without a compelling
legal or public policy reason

3513
03:58:54,959 --> 03:58:57,670
would risk disregarding the result
of district two's open candidate

3514
03:58:57,670 --> 03:59:00,058
process while imposing an
unnecessary expense on taxpayers.

3515
03:59:02,559 --> 03:59:04,377
every district deserves
to have its voice

3516
03:59:04,377 --> 03:59:06,371
respected and I'm
grateful for the confidence

3517
03:59:06,384 --> 03:59:08,294
district two is placed
in me and the public

3518
03:59:08,294 --> 03:59:10,559
service is not an
entitlement, it is an obligation.

3519
03:59:13,908 --> 03:59:17,515
and if I'm appointed, I will continue
serving with humility, accountability and

3520
03:59:17,528 --> 03:59:19,520
determination, and I
will work every day to

3521
03:59:19,520 --> 03:59:21,559
demonstrate that
confidence was well placed.

3522
03:59:25,959 --> 03:59:27,661
I respectfully support
the resolution of

3523
03:59:27,661 --> 03:59:29,704
pointing me to district
two for a full four year

3524
03:59:29,717 --> 03:59:31,595
term that follows
state law, it respects the

3525
03:59:31,595 --> 03:59:33,559
open process and it
protects taxpayer dollars.

3526
03:59:33,560 --> 03:59:35,559
thank you.

3527
03:59:35,658 --> 03:59:37,559
dave, your line is on.

3528
03:59:37,658 --> 03:59:39,559
yeah.

3529
03:59:40,559 --> 03:59:48,559
the law of our land is we have
elections, not just pointing somebody.

3530
03:59:48,709 --> 03:59:52,559
this election is very similar to the
first election I ran in back in 2018.

3531
03:59:52,859 --> 03:59:55,559
there were seven qualified
candidates that put their name in.

3532
03:59:55,908 --> 03:59:59,816
the only reason we're doing this is because
of we don't districts which should never

3533
03:59:59,827 --> 04:00:03,559
have been done in my opinion and basically
I was backed up by the supreme court.

3534
04:00:03,908 --> 04:00:06,450
it's recently when they
booted down changing to

3535
04:00:06,462 --> 04:00:09,559
districts because of ethnicity
and those kind of reasons.

3536
04:00:10,308 --> 04:00:13,559
so it should have never been done.

3537
04:00:13,959 --> 04:00:17,326
no candidates, if you look at
the reason that they changed over,

3538
04:00:17,338 --> 04:00:20,559
they wanted to have more
diversity, quote unquote, elections.

3539
04:00:21,109 --> 04:00:24,092
and looking at all the
seven qualified candidates,

3540
04:00:24,103 --> 04:00:26,559
there is no diversity
of the male female.

3541
04:00:27,759 --> 04:00:30,709
and of course party,
but no he says the party is

3542
04:00:30,720 --> 04:00:33,559
not supposed to, it
can't, at local elections.

3543
04:00:33,808 --> 04:00:36,746
so if we hadn't gone to
districts, we'd have a section with

3544
04:00:36,759 --> 04:00:39,559
seven candidates being going
to be chosen by the people.

3545
04:00:39,759 --> 04:00:43,721
in my opinion, still that the people who
are doing the hills should choose their

3546
04:00:43,734 --> 04:00:47,559
leaders from all doing the hills and
not cut us up in little bitty districts.

3547
04:00:47,759 --> 04:00:51,191
and though the, see election, it was
such a quick decision to go to districts

3548
04:00:51,203 --> 04:00:54,559
and everything, the public didn't
ever have time to get it to adjust to it.

3549
04:00:55,209 --> 04:00:59,559
I knew for a fact there were two candidates
in district, two, they were considering.

3550
04:01:02,859 --> 04:01:10,559
okay. Again, since you don't have a button
to push erica, did you have any other?

3551
04:01:10,609 --> 04:01:13,495
yes. And I read as well online
that people wanted to run

3552
04:01:13,506 --> 04:01:16,559
in district two, and the
process was difficult to navigate.

3553
04:01:21,209 --> 04:01:24,871
now, I know that, you know,
everyone has an opportunity,

3554
04:01:24,884 --> 04:01:28,558
but to express that there's
no interest is disingenuous.

3555
04:01:28,859 --> 04:01:32,445
and it dishonest. And
so to say that no one

3556
04:01:32,458 --> 04:01:36,559
wasn't, that no one was
interested isn't factual.

3557
04:01:42,808 --> 04:01:44,608
so given the fact that
there are people that

3558
04:01:44,608 --> 04:01:46,611
have expressed interest
and, you know, as council

3559
04:01:46,623 --> 04:01:48,550
member wheeler said,
there were two people that

3560
04:01:48,550 --> 04:01:50,559
had, he knows of two
people that were interested.

3561
04:02:05,808 --> 04:02:08,633
I think it's unfair to, to cancel
out that out. And I think that it's,

3562
04:02:08,633 --> 04:02:11,378
it's important to have people with
the democratic process be able to

3563
04:02:11,389 --> 04:02:14,220
vote or not vote, and to say that
the people's voices have been spoken

3564
04:02:14,220 --> 04:02:16,888
when they haven't been given an
opportunity in the voting process.

3565
04:02:17,058 --> 04:02:19,123
I mean, no one really, no
one posted from the city.

3566
04:02:19,123 --> 04:02:21,188
no, I mean, josh, I don't
know if you posted. Well,

3567
04:02:21,200 --> 04:02:23,270
if you don't run against
me, that means that you're

3568
04:02:23,270 --> 04:02:25,218
voting for me and that
you have full confidence.

3569
04:02:26,459 --> 04:02:30,134
that's not, that's not
accurate either. And so to make

3570
04:02:30,146 --> 04:02:33,559
that assumption for the
people, I think, is false.

3571
04:02:40,759 --> 04:02:42,747
I think it's quite insulting
to, to express that that

3572
04:02:42,747 --> 04:02:44,698
is the opinion, their opinions
and mindsets and that

3573
04:02:44,709 --> 04:02:46,741
that's how the people
speak. It's quite insulting for,

3574
04:02:46,741 --> 04:02:48,735
for people because the
people vote through a process.

3575
04:02:48,759 --> 04:02:52,225
and if people were to have
known, okay, this is really the process.

3576
04:02:52,236 --> 04:02:55,559
would that be the outcome,
especially people expressed interest.

3577
04:03:00,559 --> 04:03:04,596
so I just think that we are short changing
the people. I, I don't, I think there's

3578
04:03:04,609 --> 04:03:08,559
a democratic process for a reason. And
I think that we should have that process.

3579
04:03:15,559 --> 04:03:17,663
I know that we have
discussions about $10,000, but I

3580
04:03:17,663 --> 04:03:19,808
think $10,000 and $15,000
to allow people to be given

3581
04:03:19,819 --> 04:03:21,768
the opportunity to vote
is important, especially

3582
04:03:21,768 --> 04:03:23,879
considering it's not a
problem for people to travel.

3583
04:03:32,009 --> 04:03:34,071
and more, more than that,
they spend more than that

3584
04:03:34,071 --> 04:03:36,457
traveling. And I think that
we should really consider what,

3585
04:03:36,468 --> 04:03:38,658
what the, what the dollars
mean, especially when we're

3586
04:03:38,658 --> 04:03:40,929
communicating, taking away
a vocal piece for the people.

3587
04:03:49,634 --> 04:03:52,298
very well could be that the
people all vote for josh, because he's

3588
04:03:52,298 --> 04:03:55,003
there, but he's stripping them of
that opportunity, especially when

3589
04:03:55,014 --> 04:03:57,603
they have other districts and
people don't quite understand this

3590
04:03:57,603 --> 04:04:00,353
process. I think it's important
for us to be able to have a process.

3591
04:04:06,559 --> 04:04:08,824
ultimately, I think that the
decision has been made, but

3592
04:04:08,824 --> 04:04:11,048
I am grateful for the
opportunity to be able to express

3593
04:04:11,059 --> 04:04:13,087
that for the people that
aren't here that do speak

3594
04:04:13,087 --> 04:04:15,440
because I don't speak to a
lot of people in your district.

3595
04:04:20,584 --> 04:04:22,790
and I think that the council
member sweeney and a lot of people

3596
04:04:22,790 --> 04:04:25,135
aren't happy with decisions that
have been made and a lot of people

3597
04:04:25,147 --> 04:04:27,288
do express a lot. And so to
say that it's a blanket statement

3598
04:04:27,288 --> 04:04:29,536
that they haven't said anything
is just, it's just disingenuous.

3599
04:04:29,559 --> 04:04:33,922
so I am grateful for this opportunity,
even though I know you will be appointed.

3600
04:04:33,933 --> 04:04:36,274
and I hope you do keep your
promise and be fiscally responsible.

3601
04:04:38,427 --> 04:04:42,850
I'm going to say something that I'm
going to put it back to, I guess we'll

3602
04:04:42,875 --> 04:04:48,559
get some other people. But I have to
say, I couldn't disagree with you more.

3603
04:04:48,584 --> 04:04:53,558
and actually, I think what's going
on here is borderline slanderous

3604
04:04:53,937 --> 04:04:58,085
to be able to say from outside
of the district, I know people

3605
04:04:58,109 --> 04:05:06,383
who absolutely are unsatisfied.
And, you know, it's as absolutely

3606
04:05:06,407 --> 04:05:13,965
ridiculous. I mean, it angers me
what I'm hearing here, angers me.

3607
04:05:13,989 --> 04:05:19,207
so I'm going to shut up at that because
otherwise I'll go for the next hour.

3608
04:05:19,595 --> 04:05:25,357
I'm going to go to josh sweeney
if you want to say something because you

3609
04:05:25,381 --> 04:05:30,363
thank you, mayor. Yeah, I appreciate
that. There were several statements

3610
04:05:30,387 --> 04:05:36,212
that were false and I want my
denial clearly reflected in the record.

3611
04:05:36,236 --> 04:05:39,892
and I ask council member pezold
to provide verifiable evidence

3612
04:05:39,916 --> 04:05:43,595
or withdraw the allegation.
And for you, mayor caskey,

3613
04:05:43,619 --> 04:05:47,140
I also ask that the, you
know, any further discussion

3614
04:05:47,164 --> 04:05:51,456
remain factual, professional
and germane to the agenda item.

3615
04:05:51,480 --> 04:05:55,915
but there were several statements that
were made that were unfounded and untrue.

3616
04:05:55,939 --> 04:05:59,293
and I want to make sure that
that's reflected in the record.

3617
04:06:00,713 --> 04:06:06,281
all right, and I'm going to call it. It's
been moved and seconded that we

3618
04:06:06,305 --> 04:06:11,905
appoint joshua sweeney to city council
for the next four years based on the

3619
04:06:11,929 --> 04:06:19,119
fact that he has absolutely nobody
running against him, nobody that qualified

3620
04:06:19,143 --> 04:06:25,933
for the ballot or handed anything in.
And so I'm going to move the question.

3621
04:06:25,959 --> 04:06:29,542
I'll second.

3622
04:06:29,566 --> 04:06:33,486
council member sweeney. Aye.
Council member wheeler.

3623
04:06:33,510 --> 04:06:35,442
my vote is against districts, but no.

3624
04:06:37,308 --> 04:06:39,559
council member pezold.

3625
04:06:40,509 --> 04:06:41,559
my vote is no.

3626
04:06:42,804 --> 04:06:50,531
mayor pro tem mathis. Aye. Mayor
caskey. Aye. The ayes have it. All right,

3627
04:06:50,555 --> 04:06:57,171
so that leaves us to council comments.
We don't have any reports to do

3628
04:06:57,195 --> 04:07:01,253
today, because this is a special
meeting, although we managed to make

3629
04:07:01,277 --> 04:07:06,933
it four hours. And I think for, yeah,
we did four hours, 8:03.

3630
04:07:06,959 --> 04:07:09,622
so we'll start with
anyone. Does any of the

3631
04:07:09,635 --> 04:07:12,559
council members have
additional comments, dave?

3632
04:07:13,009 --> 04:07:16,503
yes, two comments. I would
like to put on the agenda

3633
04:07:16,514 --> 04:07:20,559
discussion about the saddleback
valley unified school district.

3634
04:07:21,236 --> 04:07:25,307
and basically to discuss
with them, you know,

3635
04:07:25,331 --> 04:07:27,425
what I think is their
responsibilities as

3636
04:07:27,449 --> 04:07:29,983
far as financial. So
they're supporting not

3637
04:07:30,008 --> 04:07:32,559
only the crossing guards or
maybe some other things.

3638
04:07:32,959 --> 04:07:37,559
if I can get a second on that. I'll second.

3639
04:07:37,584 --> 04:07:41,465
and the second thing I mentioned
for some of my presentations,

3640
04:07:41,489 --> 04:07:47,652
the laguna hills tax dollar
has long been a problem

3641
04:07:47,676 --> 04:07:49,743
as far as I'm concerned.
It was like, is it created

3642
04:07:49,767 --> 04:07:54,845
either before the city was
was made or shortly thereafter.

3643
04:07:54,869 --> 04:07:57,736
because they've probably
been given it before then. I'd like

3644
04:07:57,760 --> 04:08:00,690
to bring that up for discussion
for us to take a serious look

3645
04:08:00,714 --> 04:08:05,404
at the entire dollar. And
basically, I guess, take it to the

3646
04:08:05,429 --> 04:08:08,661
next level, which would probably
be the county to ask them.

3647
04:08:08,685 --> 04:08:11,920
and, you know, whatever
necessary stuff, you have to take

3648
04:08:11,944 --> 04:08:14,288
to get them to change it to
make it a reason we we shouldn't

3649
04:08:14,312 --> 04:08:17,210
be paying for capistrano valley school. We shouldn't be

3650
04:08:17,234 --> 04:08:22,043
paying for, I think it's one in there for
the irvine library. There's I I I withdraw

3651
04:08:22,043 --> 04:08:26,222
that first that second. There's a
lot of things that are kind of strange.

3652
04:08:26,246 --> 04:08:30,448
>> second. >> it should be
redone. >> I'll second it. >> okay.

3653
04:08:32,327 --> 04:08:36,808
that's all. Thank you. >> any
other comments said, jared?

3654
04:08:38,276 --> 04:08:40,968
>> yeah, I just want to
congratulate councilman

3655
04:08:40,992 --> 04:08:45,355
sweeney for another
term. I think it takes,

3656
04:08:45,380 --> 04:08:48,028
you know, great
dedication to be effective

3657
04:08:48,052 --> 04:08:52,354
in this position. I think you've shown that. I think that

3658
04:08:52,379 --> 04:08:54,717
well, I wish that our
council would have been

3659
04:08:54,741 --> 04:08:56,636
unanimous because I
think that would be the

3660
04:08:56,660 --> 04:08:59,867
classy thing to do. We
couldn't do that tonight.

3661
04:08:59,891 --> 04:09:03,321
but let me tell you that
you are appreciated.

3662
04:09:03,658 --> 04:09:10,552
your work is appreciated. Your commitment
to the city is greatly appreciated.

3663
04:09:10,576 --> 04:09:15,882
and I wish you and your family
all the best and congratulations.

3664
04:09:15,906 --> 04:09:19,373
>> thank you so much. >> okay.

3665
04:09:19,849 --> 04:09:22,559
are we done? Josh, did you want to say something?

3666
04:09:22,584 --> 04:09:27,698
>> just real quickly, I wanted
to just put it out there. There

3667
04:09:27,722 --> 04:09:32,680
are big storms coming in
september. I know laguna niguel has

3668
04:09:32,704 --> 04:09:35,867
already started preparation
for those storms by buying extra

3669
04:09:35,891 --> 04:09:39,865
sandbags, gloves, other stuff
in preparation of the storm.

3670
04:09:39,889 --> 04:09:41,730
so, just wanted to
put it on the radar for

3671
04:09:41,754 --> 04:09:43,944
everybody that might be
something we would want to

3672
04:09:43,968 --> 04:09:45,859
start looking into
as a city. It's just get

3673
04:09:45,883 --> 04:09:47,949
ahead of the, it may be
big, it may be nothing.

3674
04:09:48,560 --> 04:09:52,559
but I know that they're already preparing. El nino year.

3675
04:09:53,998 --> 04:10:02,247
>> erica, any final comments from you?
>> I would like to highlight our fire

3676
04:10:02,271 --> 04:10:10,988
authority as well as the police and what fantastic job that they have been doing

3677
04:10:11,012 --> 04:10:17,830
and there's a lot more
that I think that people don't

3678
04:10:17,854 --> 04:10:25,538
understand that they do every
single day. And I think it's just,

3679
04:10:25,562 --> 04:10:32,950
I think perhaps maybe it
would be nice to have the fire

3680
04:10:32,975 --> 04:10:36,104
authority come and speak about
some of the things that they do.

3681
04:10:37,059 --> 04:10:44,162
see, it's a lot, I think
it's trying to create

3682
04:10:44,186 --> 04:10:47,877
awareness for the
community. I also want to

3683
04:10:47,901 --> 04:10:51,418
commend them. There
was a fire recently and

3684
04:10:51,443 --> 04:10:54,717
close to the toll road.
It was taken out quickly.

3685
04:10:55,132 --> 04:11:03,604
there's a lot of concerns with
respect to nellie gail. Nellie gail is

3686
04:11:03,628 --> 04:11:08,208
not doing their job. Although we
have weed abatement, we have trees

3687
04:11:08,232 --> 04:11:14,674
that need trimmed and if it wasn't
for the fire authorities response

3688
04:11:15,148 --> 04:11:18,825
to the fire, they put their quick
response and how they handled it.

3689
04:11:18,849 --> 04:11:23,494
it could have gotten out of hand because
nellie gail is many people are not trimming

3690
04:11:23,519 --> 04:11:28,559
their trees and not taking care of the
landscape and not clearing the trails.

3691
04:11:28,584 --> 04:11:35,569
and that is a huge area
of concern. And I'm hopeful

3692
04:11:35,593 --> 04:11:39,457
that we can continue as
a city to work and sort of

3693
04:11:39,481 --> 04:11:43,931
put pressure onto nellie gail to do their job as an

3694
04:11:43,955 --> 04:11:48,108
hoa to make sure
that these trees are trimmed.

3695
04:11:48,132 --> 04:11:52,053
that the shrubs are trimmed so
that things if there is a fire potential

3696
04:11:52,077 --> 04:11:57,933
fire in the future, that it
doesn't go up and out of control.

3697
04:11:57,959 --> 04:12:02,559
so anyway with that, I yield my comments.

3698
04:12:03,009 --> 04:12:06,559
okay. I have some comments
but dave, did you have something?

3699
04:12:06,560 --> 04:12:09,305
yeah, I apologize. I
do have one more.

3700
04:12:09,316 --> 04:12:13,559
over the past, I don't know,
month ish or maybe two months.

3701
04:12:13,584 --> 04:12:19,818
I've been getting comments about
the flock cameras. I've got a lot of

3702
04:12:19,842 --> 04:12:24,885
several emails and I even asked
mr. Burns to look into a little bit.

3703
04:12:25,381 --> 04:12:28,086
and I don't know, you can correct me if I didn't understand it.

3704
04:12:28,110 --> 04:12:32,015
it seems like that there's been a
lot of lawsuits pending against them.

3705
04:12:32,257 --> 04:12:37,903
and a lot of comments about their
handling of data. I'm not sure how

3706
04:12:37,927 --> 04:12:43,660
much of this founded or unfounded,
but it's reached a national audience.

3707
04:12:43,684 --> 04:12:49,700
so I'd like to put on the agenda to discuss
whether we continue with them, whether

3708
04:12:49,725 --> 04:12:54,289
it's worth it or whether we shift to somebody
else or whatever the alternatives are.

3709
04:12:54,314 --> 04:12:57,313
I think it's worthy of discussion.
It is getting very, very public.

3710
04:12:57,485 --> 04:13:02,166
I'll second that one on the basis that I
think a discussion is appropriate. I'm not

3711
04:13:02,191 --> 04:13:07,247
going to come out and say that there's --
because I have my own opinions about that.

3712
04:13:07,271 --> 04:13:09,200
I think it is very much
of a political thing,

3713
04:13:10,563 --> 04:13:14,262
very much. But it does
have to do -- I mean, the

3714
04:13:14,287 --> 04:13:16,895
whole subject matter
has to do with rights and

3715
04:13:16,920 --> 04:13:19,559
privacy and all the rest of that kind of stuff. But

3716
04:13:19,584 --> 04:13:23,418
you know, we won't
get into the whole nine

3717
04:13:23,442 --> 04:13:26,942
yards of it, but I think
it's worth examining

3718
04:13:27,372 --> 04:13:31,346
and actually asking
for a report in that

3719
04:13:31,370 --> 04:13:36,606
process from chief burk
and, you know, and --

3720
04:13:37,450 --> 04:13:40,251
but there's -- there's
questions about how long data is

3721
04:13:40,275 --> 04:13:43,593
being retained and you
name it, but we already have a

3722
04:13:43,617 --> 04:13:48,145
number of cases in our city
where it really solved crime,

3723
04:13:48,358 --> 04:13:52,621
serious crime, including
a shooting in nellie gail.

3724
04:13:53,131 --> 04:13:56,367
okay, because of the flock
cameras. And it wasn't because

3725
04:13:56,391 --> 04:13:59,456
of data that they had stored
for months and months

3726
04:13:59,480 --> 04:14:02,448
or whatever that. It was
something that they were to

3727
04:14:02,472 --> 04:14:07,559
pick up and follow up and
basically apprehend the person.

3728
04:14:07,584 --> 04:14:10,396
and that's just one
instance. There's many,

3729
04:14:10,407 --> 04:14:13,559
many other instances
where it's worked just fine.

3730
04:14:13,584 --> 04:14:16,724
so I think it's really
more about privacy, in my

3731
04:14:16,748 --> 04:14:22,644
opinion, and about --
it's politics. There are a lot

3732
04:14:22,668 --> 04:14:25,370
of people who like to
defund the police the last

3733
04:14:25,394 --> 04:14:28,905
thing you'd want is a flock
camera out there, okay?

3734
04:14:28,929 --> 04:14:34,486
so, you know, in an apolitical
mode, we don't seem to be

3735
04:14:34,512 --> 04:14:38,559
very apolitical anymore, but
I will second it, though, dave.

3736
04:14:40,346 --> 04:14:43,805
okay, first of all,
I do want to say

3737
04:14:43,829 --> 04:14:49,977
congratulations to josh.
You know, I -- we've served

3738
04:14:50,001 --> 04:14:54,991
together now, and for,
you know, basically almost

3739
04:14:55,016 --> 04:14:59,294
four years together, and
I've seen you as mayor.

3740
04:14:59,318 --> 04:15:05,318
I've seen your decorum. I've seen
your preparation for the meetings.

3741
04:15:05,343 --> 04:15:13,226
I think you are, in my opinion, an
exceptional council person, not just okay.

3742
04:15:14,018 --> 04:15:22,466
and, you know, like I said, I get angry
when I -- when I even smell slander. And so,

3743
04:15:22,491 --> 04:15:27,500
you know, because I've been a victim of
it myself, you know, which is ridiculous.

3744
04:15:27,525 --> 04:15:30,339
and if you don't have
anything else other than

3745
04:15:30,364 --> 04:15:33,126
your integrity, folks, and
we live in a world where

3746
04:15:33,151 --> 04:15:36,299
people attack your
integrity, just because they

3747
04:15:36,324 --> 04:15:39,408
don't like all kinds of
things about you, okay?

3748
04:15:39,747 --> 04:15:47,559
and that's out of bounds, as far as I'm
concerned, 100% out of bounds. And so, I

3749
04:15:47,584 --> 04:15:51,559
will fight that. That's one place where
my decorum kind of goes out the window.

3750
04:15:52,156 --> 04:15:59,256
when I see somebody's integrity being attacked,
and nothing behind it. So, anyway, so,

3751
04:15:59,280 --> 04:16:03,338
congratulations. You've
saved the city, or we've

3752
04:16:03,362 --> 04:16:07,950
saved -- we've saved the
city by our vote, $12,000.

3753
04:16:07,974 --> 04:16:12,338
and I don't think that
people in district 2 are

3754
04:16:12,362 --> 04:16:16,315
upset at all about this,
or the optics are bad, or

3755
04:16:16,339 --> 04:16:19,477
any of that. So, that's my
comments for the night.

3756
04:16:19,501 --> 04:16:23,543
and with that, we're going to adjourn this meeting. It is 8:12

3757
04:16:23,568 --> 04:16:28,575
and our next meeting is on august 25th at 6 p.m.