Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Committee of the Whole for June.
I'd like to ask any member to declare a pecuniary interest now or where it may
arise anytime during the meeting. Councilor Lusby, please.
» Thank you, Warden Merritt. I'd like to declare conflict of interest on 4A AEMS
Master Plan and the closed meeting A B E M S Master
Plan. And I've completed the necessary paperwork. Thank you.
» Okay. Thank you.
Seeing no others. Item number three, infrastructure and
development management services division.
We have two information reports to consider this morning unless there's
questions. I'll look for a motion to receive and file. Councilor Miller
moves, Councilor Kay seconds. All in favor. A question by Councilor Atkinson.
» Thank you, Warden. Relating to item three
B number A of B, the feasibility report
study. I was just wondering down the road, are other municipalities going to
be allowed to be considered taking part of this once it's uh
the report comes back? >> Okay, I'll ask Mr. Cole to respond,
please.
» Thank you through you, Mr. Warden. I I think that's in the under the reports
requiring a motion, the fire um
uh the fire services report. Uh correct. Right. Thank you. Um and I
the the goal out of this is is to uh look and to whether or not we
council wishes us to proceed in considering options. So, if that's an
option that um uh is of concern whether or not other
municipalities could participate in the future, we could include that in the
reporting back to council.
» Motion to receive and file the two information reports. All in favor.
Opposed, that's carried. And 3B reports requiring a motion. The first one
is a report regarding the fire prevention feasibility review.
Look for a motion to approve the two recommendations. Councillor Ferguson and
Councillor Bushy. All in favor?
That's carried. And 3BB
report regarding Sarnia organic waste collection.
Councillor White moves the recommendation. Councillor
Sageman seconds. All in favor?
Opposed if any? That's carried.
Item number four, public health services division and the EMS department. We have
uh one information report regarding the
Lambton EMS master plan update. I'll look for a motion If there's no
discussion, I'll look for a motion to receive and file. Councillor White
and Councillor Ferguson. You have a question, Councillor Ferguson.
» Yes, thank you, Warden. Looking through there, there was talk at the time of
putting a station in the Westbrook area, Inwood. Is that still
in the books somewhere? >> Okay, Mr. Churchill, please.
» Thank you for the question through you, Warden. Um
our Chief Stephen Turner is here, so I'll ask him to respond to that
question. Thank you. >> Good morning, and through you, Mr.
Warden. Um so, in master plan, the master plan identified that the last
stage of uh fleet movements and and allocations would be to take a look at
the Thedford or Thedford decoupling, placing 12 hours of service from
Thedford in Forest, and the other 12 hours we would take a peek at where the
best and most appropriate seating was for the that location. One of the three
options that was identified in the master plan was one putting in Sarnia as
a day car. The second creating a 24-hour vehicle in Sarnia if
the need was required overnight and the third was taking a look at the Ennwood
Alvinston area as a possibility. So those three
are the last stage options of the of the master plan and at that point we
would take a look at where the need was greatest and place those 12 hours of
service at that point. >> Okay and counselor White.
» Uh thank you Ward Marriott. Just want to have a comment really to
Mr. Turner and and and and Mr. Churchill and and the whole team.
This is a master class on how to implement a
master plan. The progress made in this very very very detailed and logistically
complicated EMS master plan is incredible and the progress with which
you're moving forward is absolutely commendable. So I just want to say you
know thank you for the incredible work that you're doing and
and it really should be recognized as something to to be very proud of for
everyone here at the county. Thank >> Thank you counselor White and thank you
Mr. Turner and Mr. Churchill. Question by counselor McRoberts.
» Thank you through the chair. I'm just curious on page two of the summary of
the progress number eight reduce unnecessary code eight standbys. Can you
please tell us what that was why it existed in the first place and then what
deemed it to be unnecessary?
» Certainly through you Mr. Chair. The code eight standbys are a movement
of fleet whenever we have a 911 call and we have to move one of our ambulances
and and respond to an emergency. What that
does is it leaves a gap in the coverage and kind of the mesh of the network
and I I like to Uh, liken it to basketball uh, which just happens to be
very timely right now. Uh, instead of man-on-man, it's floating
zone. So, when we move one ambulance, we have to move another ambulance to cover
the gap that's left. Uh, when we took a look at the the outset of
the master plan, we identified that a lot of that fleet movement was
unnecessary and often was detrimental. So, we moved a vehicle, uh, I'll give
you an example, um, from Brea to to uh, to Corona. Uh, so, when the Corona
station went out on a call, we would move the vehicle from Brea to over to
Corona because Brea has a lower call volume. What that left was a gap in the
south end of our county, uh, and the
uh, the split 50% of the time the call would actually be back in Brea.
Uh, rather than in the Corona area and made a big run to get back to the call
that was there. So, we took a really deep analytic view of that and took a
and identified that we could lessen the number of standbys that we did, which
was also a fairly significant component of the workload of our crews. Uh, it
also uh, on top of that, uh, added to wear and tear on our fleet and
significant fuel usage. Uh, as a result, we've actually found
that we've been able to reduce a code eight standbys by about 50%, uh, save
about $80,000 in fuel, a significant reduction in uh, task times on our
crews, uh, and have not have had a negative effect uh, on our response
times. We've continued to meet our response time performance plan.
» Perfect. Thank you. Any other questions?
Seeing none, um,
call of the We We have a motion on the floor. Okay. All in favor of the save
and file, opposed if any. That's carried. Thank you.
Any other business for
Public Health Services and EMS this morning?
» Mr. Warden, if if I may, uh, I'd just like to introduce Carol Moore.
Identified in the master plan was our reorganization. Carol Moore has joined
us as our new deputy chief of community programs and system quality. She started
a couple weeks ago and we're very fortunate to have her on board.
» Great. Welcome, Ms. Moore.
Okay, moving on to number five, cultural services division. We have
First report is regarding the revised circulation policy. Look for a motion to
approve the recommendation. Councilor Sageman.
Seconded by Councilor Atkinson. Discussion.
All in favor. Opposed if any, that's carried.
5AB, report regarding the Bright's Grove
Library expansion project. Look for a motion on the four
recommendations.
Councilor White. Moves. Seconded by
Councilor Atkinson.
Question by Councilor White. >> Uh thank you. Um
I I know it's not clear yet when the work is to begin, but um
is there a plan on notifying notifying the public uh of the impending closure?
Temporary closure of the Bright's Grove Library.
And what would that plan look like? Thanks.
» Mr. Meyer, please. >> Uh through you, Warden, and thank you
for the question. Um certainly the city staff are still
confirming the timeline with the contractor that was just engaged.
Uh there is it is anticipated that perhaps this summer
work will commence. Once we've got that date confirmed with their contractor, um
we'll be reaching out to our card holders
as well as promoting the availability of the other sites as outlined in the
report. So yeah, we're working with city staff
to develop a communications plan regarding the service disruption.
» Follow up, Councillor White. >> Thank you and obviously that's going to
also mean the gallery in the Grove is is
included in that. Is there a temporary plan for relocation of that of any
potential showings and the work that they do or
will it just be on hiatus for a year plus?
» Mr. Mayor, please. >> Through you, Warden.
Similar to our approach, the gallery is planning to close for the duration of
construction just given the the limited access and the work at the site.
However, we as cultural services division will be working with the
gallery to determine if we can accommodate some of
their programs, their exhibitions at other county sites.
Looking to partner with the JNAAG, perhaps certain library
to ensure that some of their the programming can continue.
» Okay, call the question on the motion on the floor. All in favor?
Opposed if any, that's carried. 5 AC report regarding museums, gallery
and archives collection management up to April 2026.
There's no Councillor Case moves recommendation. Councillor Loosley
seconds. All in favor? That's carried.
Is there any other business for cultural services this morning?
Seeing none, move on to six long-term care.
» [clears throat] >> We have one information report to
receive and file.
For a motion for that, Councillor Hand and Councillor
Let's see, Cook. Sorry. And you have a question, Councillor
Cook? No, okay. So, motion on the floor. All
in favor? Opposed, if any. That's carried.
Any other Any other business
for long-term care?
Okay. Moving on to number seven, Corporate
Services Division. We have one information report here to
receive and file. Councillor Miller.
Seconded by Councillor Atkinson.
Question by Councillor Ferguson.
» Most of this is supposed to be self-funded through the fines, etc., but
it appears not going that way anymore. Any comments from staff
for the future to look for If we got to fund this from the county general
reserves, and if the staff's going to negative number, what really happens?
» Ms. Leger, please.
» Yeah, thank you for the question, Councillor Ferguson, through the Warden.
So, uh what has been happening? So, over the
There's another report in the package today that provides a a holistic view of
the POA program and what's been happening over the last 18 years, I
would say. So, in 12 of those years, the uh department has essentially been
operating at a loss. So, the fine revenue has been insufficient, like you
said, to cover the operating costs of the POA program.
In those instances, it's been funded either uh partially by reserves or
through the general tax levy.
» Any other questions before I call the question? Uh Councillor White.
» My uh question's similar in nature, um and uh
really it just comes down to, you know, this is a mandated service. I get that,
but uh is there ever a discussion with the province about kicking in? I mean,
this is the Provincial Offences Act.
Uh, are they ever,
you know, at the table in discussions with picking up the, uh,
the, uh, the tab? >> Ms. Leger, please.
» Yes, thank you, Councillor White. So, uh, from the department's perspective,
we've taken an approach in that, uh, the goals and objectives of the department,
uh, looks to aim to address these
challenges, the, particularly the budgetary pressures experienced by the
department. So, we're looking internally as well as externally. So, we've really
prioritized advocacy efforts, uh, as it relates to our POA program, uh,
particularly the rising court security costs, and the province provides, uh,
grant funding that partially offsets those costs. So, advocacy efforts to,
uh, work with the province in reviewing those grant funding so that, uh,
currently it partially offsets by about 40%. Perhaps there could be a review
that the grant funding, uh, provides more.
And then also advocacy efforts around the set fine structure and court
administration fees. So, those efforts are underway, uh, both through the
regular county channels, but also in partnership with other municipalities
throughout the province. This isn't only a land and, uh, POA court problem. This
is a challenge faced by many, many POA program programs throughout the
province. So, we partner with municipalities through our Municipal
Court Managers Association, as well as through AMO.
» Any other questions or comments before I call the question?
Motion on the floor, receive and file. All in favor?
That's carried. Thank you. 7B,
a review regarding the policing grant
consultation discussion or motion to approve the recommendation.
Councilor Case. Okay, and do we have a seconder?
Uh Councilor Atkinson, go ahead Councilor Case, please.
» So, I'm curious. I know that consultation was to take place with the
lower tier municipalities. I didn't really notice anything and I
apologize if it's in here and I didn't see it on what the opinion of the lower
tier municipalities on this. I know Warwick did have an opinion on this
and it was to continue with the grant process. I understand the rationale why
staff is asking us not to. But, I guess my question is
did every municipality weigh in on this? I'd be interested to know what the
results of that their opinion were on that particular issue. Thank you.
» Okay, thank you. Ms. Leger, please.
» Yes, thank you. Through the Warden. So, uh the consultation process started the
beginning of May um and all staff from member
municipalities were invited to participate as part of that process. Uh
there were eight staff members through uh the member municipalities that uh
joined the participation, six of which voiced their preference.
Uh all being in favor of eliminating the
policing grant. And well, some said either option. So,
uh I'll back it up a uh little bit. We had prepared uh in preparation for the
consultation, we had suggested, knowing the budgetary pressures of the POA
program, we had suggested a gradual phase out of the policing grant wherein
it would continue for 2027, but then thereafter it would reduce by 100,000.
So, by 2033 the policing grant would be eliminated. Uh so, that was what was on
the table uh in terms of the consultation process, but after going
through the background information and explaining the position of the POA
program, staff from member municipalities had voiced that they were
in favor of eliminating the POA grant effective 2027. While some had said were
were comfortable with either option, either
gradually phasing it out or eliminating it effective 2027. Uh there was no
member municipality that had said they wanted the grant to continue
indefinitely though.
» Councillor Loosley.
Thank you, Warden Merritt, and I do understand there were discussions. Um I
have a concern cuz I still think policing costs that are going up. An
example, this year 11%. Petroleum received $17,000.
I cannot support cutting that out. I think we need to continue to keep that
going. And I will not support this. Thank you.
Councillor Ferguson. May I like to ask her how much of the
money is money we would pay into the county and then get it back, money in,
money out?
Yeah, not sure. Ms. Lejeune, you want to tackle that one?
In in terms of the levy or can I ask clarification in terms of the levy? Is
that what you're referring to? So a grant coming back
from the county. How much has we paid into that to start with?
Is it just money that we pay in that that is coming back to us?
And we eliminate it because it's really in the end of the day it's
it's a zero in our books. Ms. Lejeune, please.
Yeah, so that was uh at least as I understood it, that was
one of the um alarming pieces from the staff of the member municipalities in
that when we provide the policing grant out to member municipalities,
but if we're budgeting a deficit for the department, then we're essentially
redistributing the funds back to the county through the general tax levy
process. So, it's like you had said,
somewhat of a wash or an exercise rather.
» Councilor Case. >> So, we also had those discussions as I
referenced earlier. And the our discussions were not to to
continue on with the grant, actually to continue on with the grant. So, I don't
know where the communication went wrong from our standpoint because we were very
much on the record saying that we wanted this grant to continue. We look at it as
we're paying in and we're getting out. That's the same for everybody to a
certain point. So, anyways, I'm not going to support the recommendation of
staff on this one. I do understand with all due respect why they're trying to
find the money. By the same time, I think we should
continue on with this grant as well as Mayor Lusby has said. I agree with that.
» Thank you, Councilor Case. Any other questions, comments before I call
Councilor Bradley.
» Yes, Mr. Warden and County Council. The city doesn't have any involvement in
this obviously with their own police service.
Would it be wise to table this for a year and continue the program into next
year and allow the new council to deal with
what they are facing on a number of financial fronts?
And if there is support for doing that, I would move to table it with the grant
continuing at least through 2027. >> Okay, is there a seconder for that
motion to table? Councilor White seconds.
Councilor Hand, do you have a comment or you're seconding it?
» I was just putting my hand up to second it. Thank you.
» Okay, so I'll call the question on tabling. All in favor to table?
Opposed?
I declare that uh the motion is defeated.
» I I'm sorry, it's a bit late, but can I
ask for a recorded vote? >> Okay.
Oh, it's committee of the whole, yes. Sorry.
» Okay. All right. So, we'll save that for the next
meeting. >> Okay, Counselor Case.
» I will make the motion that we continue with the funding in the grant process as
we have for many years. I'll make that motion that we continue on with the
grant process. >> Okay. Do we have a seconder by Counselor
Loosely seconds. Uh we had one motion on the floor though
already.
So
Yeah, we did. Yeah, two.
Yeah, that was your your motion, Counselor Case, so if you want to
withdraw the first one. >> I made the motion that we put it on the
floor for this session. I will withdraw that motion.
» Okay. And now you're making a motion to
keep it.
Any discussion?
So, call the question. All in favor of the motion.
Opposed, if any.
The motion carries.
Okay, 7 BB regarding report regarding the municipal election restricted acts.
Look for a motion to uh approve the recommendation on this.
Counselor Ferguson. Counselor Loosely.
Seconds. Any discussion?
All in favor. Opposed, if any. That's carried.
Any other business for corporate services division this morning.
Seeing none, moving on to number eight, find finance facilities and
acquisitions. We have no agenda items. So, look for open it up for other
business.
Seeing none, moving on to number nine, Social Services Division.
» [clears throat] >> One report regarding the child care
facility development update. Look for a motion to receive and
file this.
Councillor Bushy. Seconded by Councillor Atkinson.
All in favor. That's carried.
And nine
AB, information report regarding the affordable housing update.
I guess this we could have included that with
uh Councillor McRoberts, please.
» Thank you, through the chair. I do have a question that uh came up in Sarnia
Council. Can we please get a definition
of affordable housing, also a definition for supportive
housing, and if we could, is the George Street
build going to be within dwell, going to be supportive housing or affordable
housing? Thank you.
» Ms. Fitzpatrick, would you be able to address that, please?
» Thank you for the question and through you, Warden. So, as far as the
definitions, affordable housing, we can consider
affordable or deeply affordable or rent geared to income. So, with affordable
housing, it's considered 80% of the average market rent as set by CMHC.
Deeply affordable is rent geared to income. so it's assessed based on the
individual's income. Supportive housing is generally rent
geared to income with intensive supports.
So, it's it's not only the financial supplement that makes the um
housing sustainable, it's also the case management supports that allows the
person to remain successfully housed. In terms of the George Street project, it
is the intention that it will be supportive housing with uh deeply
affordable rents.
» Any other uh Counselor White? >> Again, just two things uh I'd like to
highlight in this report because and we know that the negative likes to
stick uh in the public narrative, but here we
are with two uh very good good news stories here, both with the uh
the uh Aboriginal housing
uh operation that uh that is open
on Confederation Street along with the 10 uh rent supplements that the county
is providing to make some of those affordable units even more deeply
affordable for those uh who otherwise wouldn't be able to
handle that uh in their budgets. And of course, the on time uh and on budget uh
construction at Kathleen Avenue is a very good news story
uh as we're expecting that to be online later this year.
Uh again, I just want to highlight the the positive here. Great great work
to staff um and uh and thank you for your ongoing commitment to making sure
that these priorities are met. >> Thank you.
Look for a motion to receive and file this report.
Counselor Sageman, Counselor Ferguson, all in favor.
Let's carry. Thank you.
And 9B, report regarding closure of emergency
overflow shelter and expansion at Inn of the Good Shepherd.
There is uh There is four recommendations
here. Councillor Bradley
moves. >> Yeah. Well, I wouldn't move it forward,
but the one one that's missing ingredient, I'll ask
this question to staff, is that there's um
no public engagement. Are you going to uh have what you did
elsewhere uh on George and elsewhere, this type of
open house where these people can come in and deal with the facts and not what
they're hearing through other sources? Is that part of the plan cuz it's not in
the uh report or the recommendations? >> Okay, I'll look for a seconder first.
Councillor White seconds. Um and I'd ask uh Ms. Fitzpatrick to
respond, please.
» Through you, Warden, to Councillor Bradley. So, with the expansion of the
Good Shepherd's Lodge as proposed, I mean, public input is certainly
important in many planning decisions. However, with an expansion, the zoning
is already in place, and as part of municipal municipal planning, municipal
consultation is not a requirement. So, in the essence of time and moving
this project forward in a timely fashion, we wanted to get it in front of
council as soon as possible, which uh the details are in the report today.
Certainly, as we proceed through this project with pre-development um
minor variances, we could engage with the public to inform them of the plan,
but in the interest of time and moving the project forward and ensuring a
timely solution to permanent shelter beds and being able to wind down the
overflow operation, we did not preemptively um
initiate public consultation, so to speak. But, certainly, we would be happy
to share the plan if approved by this council with the public moving forward.
» Follow up, Councillor Bradley. >> Well, I understand that and I understand
that from our meeting last week that uh that there's not a need for a rezoning
which would start a whole public process. However, I do think
watching all the stuff on social media and the first casualty is usually the
truth. I think it's really important to bring
this forward as soon as possible just to inform that neighborhood. And also, I
know you have regular meetings for the Melrose neighborhood and as part of our
discussion last week, I personally would prefer that that exit is much shorter
than what's predicted. But can you say on the record here now
what is happening at Melrose Place on Melrose Street, the actual number of
people using it has decreased significantly and I think that's
important for people to know. >> Ms. Fitzpatrick, please.
» Through you Warden to Councillor Bradley, I mean yes, you are correct
with the Melrose overflow shelter. The usage is on average for the past couple
of months around 15 people a night. Of course, giving times of the month, it
may be a few more or a few less, but there's 25 beds available, but on
average we've been using 15 of those 25 beds.
Certainly activity is significantly lower than it was this time last year.
We continuously, on a regular basis, every two to three months, we meet with
the Melrose neighborhood. They reported the same to us. They're they're happy
with the changes. Of course, they want to see it um eventually close, which
again, that is also the wish of staff. I I with regard to the timeline of
closing overflow, it is the intention once the lodge expansion project is
complete, it will result in the closure of the overflow. However, closing it
prematurely as as we all can appreciate, there is not enough capacity at the
lodge on its own to meet demand, so we will need to
maintain that for the foreseeable future to meet shelter need. We'll continue to
to monitor monitor though on a monthly basis and wherever possible, look to
minimize the operations at the Lower Lee Church.
» I appreciate that. Now, can I just go back for a second and ask on this idea
at least informing the neighborhood through an open house of exactly
what this is and it is an extension of existing service which is is positive.
I I think there's a need to do that in that commercial area and that
residential area uh that they've informed as soon as
possible the details. And we went through that on George Street. Uh once
that got rolling the um the misinformation was enormous.
And I think we should do everything to bring it down knowing that that's not
always possible. And I'll leave that with you. I'll leave
that with your judgment on your timing and when you would do that.
» Okay. Councillor White. >> Uh thank you, Warden.
Through you to Ms. Fitzpatrick. In the past um there were conversations about
the possibility of expanding services on this particular site and
uh if I if my memory serves me correctly the conclusion was that there just
wasn't enough land uh available to make any sort of real difference in in
expanding that. Uh there's limited parking for staff and and visitors and
and the building itself takes up a fairly large
uh portion of the property. So, what what has changed or what what allowed uh
a creative reconsideration of that option here?
» Ms. Fitzpatrick, please. >> Through you, Warden, to Councillor
White. So, we did engage with Gloss Engineering and Architect.
They they did the feasibility study for us.
So, the expansion of the lodge operation it's it's really one dorm room. So, if
you're if you're facing the lodge from Confederation Street, it would be the
east side of the building uh between that and the Salvation Army.
So, it's it's it's one dorm room on that side, a little bit of office space, and
some interior renovations of existing spaces. So, being able to convert an
existing boardroom into a female dorm. So really using their creativity and
their expertise the the net result is 1,700 square feet
that falls within building code requirements. So it is a it is a viable
project on the existing site.
» Thank you. Any other questions before I call the vote?
Okay, so I have a motion on the floor to approve the four recommendations.
All in favor? Opposed if any?
That's carried. Any other business for social services
this morning?
We have no agenda items for our office of the CAO unless there's other business
to be brought up.
Seeing none. Brings us to item number 11 in camera.
I'll look for a motion to go in camera for the items listed on the agenda.
Councillor Lusby and Councillor Sageman. All in favor?
That's carried.
» Mhm.
>> Okay, before I call for a motion to
adjourn, we have a couple invitations I'd like to note. Uh the first one being
Marshall Goulding Manor has a family barbecue on Saturday, July
25th at 5:00 p.m. And the second one is a Northland and
Lodge family barbecue, Thursday, August 6th at 5:00 p.m.
Look for a motion to adjourn. Councilor Loosely
and Councilor Ferguson, all in favor. Let's carry it, thank you.
Oh, yeah, and the audit committee meets upstairs immediately following
the uh this meeting.
Oh, no, we're doing it in the council chambers, sorry.