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after fire plan uh 2019 which was
approved by council in 2020. So that

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direction was for five uh four and two
to consolidate obviously station five

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and four consolidated and now this is
the next step in the process uh to

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complete the consolidation as per his
master fire plan. So to assist with the

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uh consolidation of station 4 and two uh
we did hire LUMX to look at different

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options for us. Uh so we have Jerry
Pigatory uh and Chris Berg from uh LUMX

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who are professionals in this field for
looking at consolidation master fire

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plans. So kind of gives you a little
spiel on it but they are subject matter

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experts on this kind of thing. So it's
great to have them as a resource. And

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then we have our CIO uh Suzanne Char
here as well. Um so again, thank you

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guys for coming and we turn it over to
Lumas and they will begin the

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presentation. Thank you very much.
Thanks Chief. I appreciate that. Thank

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you very much and and thank you
everybody for turning out tonight. Uh as

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the chief has indicated um we're a Lumix
company um which specializes in

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strategic planning, fire master plans,
and community risk assessments. And um

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from our perspective uh there were three
of us involved in this. Our our

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colleague Terry Jer who's not with us
tonight, my colleague Jerry Pigtori and

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myself. Just as a little bit of
background collectively, we got well

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over a 100red years of of service within
the fire service and experience as well

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as uh like 15 20 years of doing
consulting work within the fire service.

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We're local. Uh we're not coming in from
a long way away. We're local people,

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which is kind of nice. As I told the
chief, we had some conversations a

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little earlier. Um I had the privilege
of of of doing fire master plans and

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strategic planning for Carl Place,
Drummond, North Elmsley, Tay Valley,

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Perth, McNab, Braayside, um Renfruit,
just among others. So we're certainly

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quite familiar with the region. It's not
like we're just being airlifted in here.

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We understand the concerns and the and
the uh restrictions on a lot of these

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decision making processes. Um from our
perspective, the township was already

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provided with with the community risk
assessment and fire master plan to guide

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the township. And as the chief indicated
earlier, that approval and the

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recommendation contained in the fire
master plan

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» are either completed at this point or in
progress. And this one tonight is one of

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the ones that's in progress and looking
at options which was our role in this

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whole passage looking at the options to
consolidate uh the station two and four

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models and when I do pass it over to my
colleague Jerry's going to we do have

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some maps certainly to come up later.
they're uh long distance away from you,

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but you want to come up later and have
chats with us. That's always uh most

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welcome and some certainly as a a
display board thing. Sometimes people

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see that a little bit more tangible and
and tactile to look at what is exactly

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there. We will be putting it up on the
big screen a little bit later on after

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my introduction to talk about the
process of amalgamating the two stations

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and what the impact is. uh across across
uh the township. So um we'll be looking

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at the data that the chief provided for
us on the creation of of what is called

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our GIS mapping tools to assist us with
this review. And that will be the the

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process that you'll see up on the
screen. uh from our perspective and from

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the most recent data that the chief
provided to us, we're going to be

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looking at data which includes fire
calls, medical calls, car fires and

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using that information uh to ensure that
the decisions are made based on fire

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safety and supporting critical tasks and
firefighter safety required for the

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protection of lives and property. Two
critical elements. We also um heavily

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rely on the the province in terms of the
goals supported by the Ontario Fire

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Marshall and the and their three three
lines of defense or their tenants that

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they they have which is basically
three-fold fire safety information or

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fire prevention and education, fire
enforcement and inspections to make sure

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places are safe. And the third part of
that is emergency response, uh, fire

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suppression, medical calls, car fires.
And so when we put together the maps,

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and we'll go through this in a minute,
you will see the road network that's

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traveled. You will see the the the
coverage area. And what we're trying to

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do is synthesize the maps to show you
exactly how many people are going to be

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showing up for any given location at any
given time. Obviously, there are

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anomalies depending on day of the week,
weekend, evenings, but this is based on

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the data that we've received over the
last number of years to consolidate it

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all and and follow a proper path to make
sure that we're accurate in that

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assessment. Um that information uh will
be projected up there and Jerry will

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take you through it slowly so that
everybody can follow the exact path

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where firefighters are coming from and
how they will populate the area that is

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required. Um
some additional things I'll just add to

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it at this point rather than waiting
till the very end if that's okay. Some

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additional points that that um we also
took into consideration

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uh were things like limitations of the
existing facilities. Well, the building

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down the hall is a night or down the
street is a nice building. There are

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specific limitations that put um
hardfast rules in place in terms of what

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we can do moving forward. Uh things like
suitable storage, uh suitable meeting

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meeting space, a training room, uh
updated washrooms, proper uh storage and

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and holding of uh personal protective
equipment, proper ventilation for

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firefighter safety and and and uh and
cancer prevention, which is which is

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paramount within the province. Health
and safety of the firefighters is key.

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Um, and while the the fireh hall I think
was built in the '9s and probably built

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by a lot of the people in this room, uh,
and have pride in ownership in that

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facility, uh, we have to look at the
longevity of a hall like that and even

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looking one or two years down the road
just in terms of firefighter safety and

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storage and capacity for firefighters,
let alone where we may be going

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eventually with vehicles. Uh trucks
today are extremely expensive and

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they're bigger, much bigger. And to
retrofit an existing building uh to make

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it maybe habitable in that regard um is
not the right answer. The right answer

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is to look at uh moving it to another
location, creating a new facility, maybe

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adding uh some extra benefits in there
like for firefighter safety, things like

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storage facilities, training room, so
that you know every time you go into the

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hall and you want to do some training,
you're not on the apparatus floor

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breathing in all the diesel fumes that
come with most older stations without

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any kind of adequate ventilation or
exhaust system that allow for limiting

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cancer and mitigation that regard. Um,
so the replacement of existing

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apparatus, I'm sure the chief uh has
looked at it and and forecasted for the

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next 5 to 10 years, like any good fire
master plan will tell you, you have to

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forecast into the future to really
determine what the needs of the

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community are. And if the needs can't be
met because the vehicles are bigger, uh,

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the cost of the vehicles, the height of
the vehicles, the size of the vehicles,

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and the facilities within the existing
station aren't suitable.

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you're better off to relocate it and
build a new one that will meet all the

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demands for the next uh 20 30 40 years
for the fire service.

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It also in in a number of uh reviews
that we've done around the province and

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we've done everything from as far away
as Windsor all the way to the border in

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M in uh in Quebec. Um so many chiefs
have told us that you know yes while

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it's an initial blow to close a station
or amalgamate a station. Um the ultimate

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benefit has been it's a new facility and
new people stepped up and decided to

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volunteer because they saw the new
facility. Townships or municipalities

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were also eager to jump on the fact that
they could maybe add a little bit of

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space in the facility to have like this
like a community uh facility that could

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be utilized by the public for for
meetings or for social gatherings. So

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there's a lot of trade-offs that can be
made, but from our perspective, looking

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at the the the three-station model and
and the consolidation of station two and

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four um comes with a lot of benefits um
that that are important and and just

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saying that the facility is fine and it
can last another 10 years really doesn't

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address a lot of the concerns that we
saw initially and are seeing across the

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entire province uh in terms of uh you
know adequate washing facilities. ities

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in terms of adequate ventilation,
adequate training facilities and storage

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facilities. I know you you store your
PPE on on a rescue, but that in itself

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is something that is is frowned upon
across Ontario because of the off gasing

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that occurs from your PPE. So it really
needs to be either in a selected area or

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in a facility that has proper
ventilation to to to mitigate uh

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carcinogens and cancer risks in
firefighters which is quite prevalent in

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Ontario. Um so firefighter health and
safety is key for us as well. Um in

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making the overall decision and how this
went it was it came out of the the fire

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master plan uh that was presented to the
chief. Um, our view of all of this was

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to look at consolidation and see what
the benefits were. Ensuring that we had

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proper coverage within your community,
ensuring that we had uh what we call an

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effective response force to make it out
to the calls and firefighter safety

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again sort of key element. Firefighter
safety on an emergency response. Um,

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it's not about one person driving a pump
to a call. It's about having enough

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people there to protect not only uh the
uh the property owners uh but also to

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protect the firefighters because it's a
dangerous occupation.

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So having said that um we're we're now
looking at three options that we

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reviewed uh and the options were that we
would uh we would consolidate station

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four and two, but we took it down a
notch and and that's partially what

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we'll see up there. So, we'll be happy
to talk to people a little later on in a

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more one-on-one basis if you'd like. Uh,
we have the the four station model at

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the far end, and then we have what we
call uh model 2B and 2C. and Jerry will

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go over those two options to show you
how the coverage for firefighters takes

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place in the road network and and
capacity of the number of individuals

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that show up at any given time uh for
what we call the effective response

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force for protection of firefighter
health and safety.

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So, uh I'll turn it over to my
colleague. So, hopefully you can see it

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up there. And one of the reasons we
brought the hardboard maps with us too

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is because
can't follow it that closely on the

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small screen. We're more than happy to
walk you through any of the scenarios

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that we have up on the boards after
that. So I'll turn it over to Jared.

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Thank you very much.
So um just so we have we understand

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where we're coming from. Um these maps
there every every road in this map is a

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segment and that segment has been
assigned the speed limit that that's the

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posted on those. Now yes fire trucks
have lights and sirens. Everybody thinks

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they go faster than the normal speed
limit but they rarely do. Uh the trucks

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are so big, so heavy. Uh imagine on a
night like tonight, you know, it they're

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you have to slow down and then the
amount of time it takes you to speed up.

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So the actual road speeds, believe it or
not, is pretty close and accurate to

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what these apparatus actually do when
they're driving to an emergency.

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The other thing we have to take into
consideration is time frames.

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» Uh we've broken this up into different
time frames. Um, you know, every one of

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the stations, what we've done is we've
made them drive for 10 minutes, 14

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minutes, and 20 minutes to see where how
far they reach from the fire hall. What

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we do have to do though is not so you
think, oh, in 20 minutes I'll have all

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the these people arrive, is that you we
call it shoot time or assembly time. the

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time it takes for the volunteer
firefighters to from the time of the

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page to get to the fire station and
leave with the fire truck and that's

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called the shoe time and the data that
the chief has provided is is very very

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good. Therefore, our analysis actually
works in the benefit of of that good

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data. What I'm and so every one of these
um the stations have what we call a

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shoot time. This was uh and we only took
uh calls that were a true emergency in

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the sense where it was a structure fire,
it was a car fire, it was a heart

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attack, you know, not a state, not a
call that was a, you know, carbon

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monoxide with no symptoms because that
would skew that assembly time. Okay, so

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I just show you an example
of a station one, Lark station.

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uh how far from their station you see
those lines there. I could blow it up

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here just a little bit.
So in 10 minutes minus their 4 minute

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and 20 second shoot time that's how far
they reach.

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In 14 minutes that's how far they reach.
And in 20 minutes

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that area is all covered. Yes, a lot of
that's out at your border. We didn't

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00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:11,519
want to cut it off at the border. That's
that just shows you that because it goes

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out into those road networks.
So, that's an indication of your uh land

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station and how far they manage to get
in those time frames.

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» Now, what I'm going to show you is

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station two.

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Middle Station.

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Um, second here. Let me turn this off.

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00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,759
That off there. Give me a second.

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Thank you.
that I have myself. See, things go

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really well with that help
station.

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Everybody knows where that is, right?
Are blow it up there just to show you.

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But that's where the existing station
is.

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00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:26,680
Then in 10 minutes,
that's how far they get.

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00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:31,000
in 14 minutes

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00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:39,440
and in 20 minutes.
So pretty pretty good coverage

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00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:46,199
those stations.
Can you just show the toss about now?

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00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,199
» Sure. About 20 minutes.

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00:16:46,399 --> 00:16:55,040
Those times up again the 20 minutes.
>> Yeah. Okay. So, as you can see where

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this station is, it it gets all well
almost where station four actually is. I

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00:16:57,519 --> 00:17:04,559
just wanted to keep you keep that in
mind that it's gets up to that station

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00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:09,199
20 minutes.
Is that okay?

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00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:12,839
It's fine.
I'll show you where

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00:17:21,919 --> 00:17:29,280
in 10 minutes that's how far they get.
They have a shoot time of 4 minutes and

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48 seconds.
So again, 14 minutes, that's how far

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00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:40,000
they get. Just like every other
time frame you we have deducted the

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shoot times and 20 minutes that's where
negative

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00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:46,679
pretty good.

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00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:51,640
Now station four

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00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:59,720
take station four and so they have a
shoot time of 10 minutes and 10 seconds.

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00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:07,840
So, in 14 minutes, they're barely out
the station, right? They're out the

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00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:13,840
station. I didn't have a 10-minute one.
I didn't put a 10-minute one because

208
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:20,520
they wouldn't leave the station by
>> station

209
00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,520
in 20 minutes. That's how far they

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00:18:21,679 --> 00:18:29,679
» Okay.
So now I'm going to show you that if we

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00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:35,760
when we consolidate four and two, we
have two options that we were looking

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00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:41,440
at. One called 2C and the other one
called 2B. 2B for all intents and

213
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:46,320
purposes is the same area as
Middleville.

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00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:51,600
While station 2 is halfway between the
Tat and Middle. So

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00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:57,120
there were some assumptions made here.
When we talk about 2C and we talk about

216
00:18:54,400 --> 00:19:02,400
their shoot time, we took an average of
station 2's shoot time and station

217
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:07,400
four's
and we gave them that that as a shoot

218
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,400
time.

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00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:17,200
Just close this up here.
Go through.

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00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:21,520
So, if we were to place the station in
that area, I'll just blow it up so

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00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:25,520
everybody kind of gets an idea of where.
Not a parcel of land that we're

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00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:30,640
necessarily looking at, but it's it's
the area that we're that we were looked

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00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:35,120
at.
So, with the average shoot time that I

224
00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:41,320
was saying, that comes out to about a 7
minute and 28 second shoot time for this

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00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,320
proposed site.

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00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:52,160
So that's how far they would get in 10
minutes,

227
00:19:49,039 --> 00:19:57,760
14 minutes,
and in 20 minutes.

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00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:01,760
» Did you do any uh mathing with a longer
shoot time?

229
00:19:59,919 --> 00:20:05,760
» No.
No. Because we were satisfied with with

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00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,120
See, here's one of the things I just
want to show you while we're talking

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00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:12,240
about that. also and you know when we
talk about shoot times and you wonder

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00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,240
why
um

233
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:24,799
why things take so long there's where
all the volunteer fire goers live right

234
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:30,559
now I know changes from time to time but
nothing drastically right so you can see

235
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:35,440
that the vast majority are in this area
leaving that area only having a few in

236
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:39,679
there that's why you know it's it's but
if the 2C

237
00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:43,679
was in that area. They still have a
considerable amount of volunteers living

238
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:50,919
at close by. So again, this made that
the assumption that we made the 7 minute

239
00:20:46,159 --> 00:20:50,919
shoot time would would probably be true.

240
00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:02,919
See, that's a 20 minutes.

241
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:11,799
Now if we were to look at

242
00:21:12,159 --> 00:21:15,159
2B

243
00:21:15,679 --> 00:21:26,080
2B would be very close to this station.
What 11 km we're saying about 10 km the

244
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:30,720
site that the town the municipality owns
that site.

245
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:35,679
So I'll blow it up so that everybody
sees where it is and people would know

246
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:40,880
where it is.
That would be 2V.

247
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:46,640
So 2V and that one there we gave the
same shoot time as the existing middle

248
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:51,559
station because again you can see where
all the firefighters live and it

249
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,559
shouldn't be the same.

250
00:21:52,960 --> 00:22:01,799
So yeah, that's a light color but it's
showing up there pretty good. So that

251
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,799
would be in 10 minutes

252
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,440
and 14 minutes

253
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:18,799
in the 20 minutes. So it almost gets up
to the area where they get pretty

254
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:22,280
remote. Still does a pretty good job of
of that area.

255
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:37,120
So, one thing I want to show you at a 20
minute drive for each one of these

256
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:42,120
scenarios, what's what I'm talking about
is, of course, the um

257
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:52,679
the proposed stations 2B and 2C, which
you'll be able to see on the flatard up

258
00:22:49,679 --> 00:22:52,679
here.

259
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:02,120
So this is 2B

260
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,320
10 minutes.

261
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,559
Hold on there. Give me a second.

262
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:21,240
» Open up the wrong box.

263
00:23:21,679 --> 00:23:26,200
First, I'm going to show you what we
have currently.

264
00:23:29,919 --> 00:23:39,880
Show you the 20 minute travel station
one, station two,

265
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,880
station three,

266
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:52,000
station four.
So these are all the stations leaving

267
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:59,520
the same top with you know in those time
frames and they overlap which means they

268
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:06,400
converge
and what's important for us about

269
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:13,360
firefighter safety is is where does it
where do we have enough overlapping that

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00:24:09,919 --> 00:24:18,000
provides our firefighters what we call
Um

271
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:21,919
the uh looking for a word here
>> effective task force

272
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:28,000
» response the effective response
sucks getting old

273
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:33,360
here anyway. So this is the effective
response. Okay, which means how many

274
00:24:31,360 --> 00:24:38,240
fire there's there's a lot of critical
tasks that must be done at any single

275
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:41,279
family home fire. And you know we talk
about the pump operator, we talk about

276
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,279
the two firefighters, you know, with a
hose going in. We talk about two

277
00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:49,840
firefighters outside in case the two
firefighters inside get into trouble. Uh

278
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:54,720
the person in command. Uh you know,
there's all of those things. You know,

279
00:24:51,760 --> 00:25:00,640
water supply know in a lot of the areas
that we have that we have to set up for.

280
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:07,200
It takes a lot of people. So, what
you'll notice is that the convergence of

281
00:25:03,919 --> 00:25:13,200
of what you have now is is is not bad,
but it can be improved. So why not take

282
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,640
you know the advantage of of
consolidating two stations now and

283
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:21,279
looking at some areas that could
actually improve that effective

284
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:28,600
responsiveness.
So we looked at just give me a second

285
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,600
here so I could close all of these.

286
00:25:34,159 --> 00:25:39,880
So first I'm going to do the uh 2C

287
00:25:54,159 --> 00:26:04,600
So there is the three stations
converging

288
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:04,600
similar to what we had only the overlap

289
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:15,679
is still up high here because of course
we've moved that 2C up farther to

290
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:21,520
station where station 4 would have been
but all of the

291
00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:26,640
effective response force is a little bit
high and still in remote areas.

292
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:32,320
Community risk assessments have always
shown where the the the the biggest

293
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:38,000
challenge or the higher risk areas and
of course the village Lannarch village

294
00:26:35,279 --> 00:26:42,960
is very very important and here you have
you know only nine firefighters in 20

295
00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:48,440
minutes in that area that could be very
detrimental for not only the community

296
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:48,440
but for the firefighters.

297
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,840
So if we looked at

298
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:07,960
2B
and I still have to turn some things off

299
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,960
here. Hold on.

300
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:28,080
So, just while Jerry's turning these
things off, just as a reminder, folks,

301
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:34,640
the maps that we have in front of us,
the hardboard ones are scenario 2B and

302
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:37,919
2C. Want to come up later? We can walk
through them because it they're right in

303
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,600
front of you. You can probably see them
a little bit better, but they represent

304
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,200
the same data that we're putting up on
the screen.

305
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:50,480
» Can you just explain to B2C? Are these
stations that are there or you're

306
00:27:47,679 --> 00:27:57,200
planning on building these?
>> Well, we're we're planning on building

307
00:27:53,360 --> 00:28:00,320
one. We're going to combine station 4.
>> Yes.

308
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:03,760
» Station two, middle build into a new
site

309
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:08,480
» where and those options are two.
>> So, the 2B and the 2C was where we were

310
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:12,960
looking. That's why we blew it up on the
map. I could go back to that, but I just

311
00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:18,399
want to show you
>> a convergence of of

312
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:22,240
» the proposed 2B, which is very close to
here. 2B would be built very close to

313
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:27,760
here on the
>> parcel that the municipality owns.

314
00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:33,399
» And 2C
>> 2C, it's just we just showed the area.

315
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,399
We don't

316
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:45,039
» could you show where cat is on that map?
Could you point to where it is

317
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:49,559
» because right now I'm not like I can't
get where we are at

318
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,559
all.
>> Where are we on that map?

319
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,720
» The very top
>> station. But if you could take your

320
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:05,039
cursor and just
>> go to where

321
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:08,880
» right where the cursor is where station
points.

322
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:12,320
» So almost at the f the top like the
furthest away then

323
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,720
» right
>> very remote.

324
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,039
» Right.
>> And there was 2C that we've showed you.

325
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:25,039
That's just a parcel of land right in
this area where I'm showing. And now

326
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:28,799
we're looking at where 2B
>> and there's no coverage of White Lake

327
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:34,399
whatsoever.
>> No. Well, there is Bean, but there have

328
00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:38,080
a mutual aid. Yeah. Go ahead.
>> I answer that. So, the consolidation of

329
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,440
stations two and four do not have a
response implication on the residents of

330
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:45,440
White Lake. We have that through a
mutual aid agreement with the township

331
00:29:44,159 --> 00:29:49,200
of Mississippi Mill.
>> We have no responsibility for White

332
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,799
Lake. Is that what you're saying?
>> I did not say that. No, what I said is

333
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:57,279
the consolidation of station two and
four. It does not have a direct the

334
00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:01,919
where the location of the station is
doesn't impact the residents of White

335
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:05,039
Lake.
>> Okay. And we don't want it to impact

336
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:10,000
them
>> based on the consolidation of stations

337
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:14,919
two and four. The focus right now is on
Middville and the TW residents.

338
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:24,480
We do have
>> we have automatic aid agreements with

339
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:27,279
nside as well and this mill if you have
questions feel free to reach out to me

340
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:32,360
at any time or come into my office and
certainly have a discussion in regards

341
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,360
to the automatic a

342
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:45,360
in progress of being built before we
quote falls like by these maps 20

343
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:49,919
minutes isn't even getting to us.
So

344
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:53,039
» right now we're in better shape as it is
than what you're proposing or what

345
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,760
you're doing.
>> That's a fabulous point. Absolutely. I

346
00:30:54,720 --> 00:31:02,000
appreciate that. Um so when we look at
these, we're basing all this upon

347
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:06,240
long-term planned fiscal responsibility.
And when we look at the fire underwriter

348
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:10,640
survey, um there is deadlines for
frontline apparatus such as your pumpers

349
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:15,919
and your tankers at 20 years. So
currently station 4 apparatus are due to

350
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:21,440
be replaced uh next year. So the
apparatus costs like Chris has alluded

351
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:26,240
to, we be looking upwards of $1.75
million expenditure on taxpayers next

352
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:31,840
year. U if we do not move forward with
the consolidation uh next year as has

353
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:39,039
been indicated. Who would be responsible
for protecting the uh forest the

354
00:31:35,679 --> 00:31:44,159
heartlands the federal
federal lands around the area? Is there

355
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:50,480
particular fire force that covers these
areas as we are you know very right as

356
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:55,760
you say right at the top. So um usually
there's a somebody has an economical

357
00:31:52,960 --> 00:32:00,559
benefit for providing service to cover
these federal lands. Yeah.

358
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:03,600
» Wondering who what is what?
>> Great question.

359
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:07,279
» What's who would be covering that and
what is the cost?

360
00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:10,159
» Yeah. So there will be no change to any
lands like that. We do have an agreement

361
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,880
with the Ministry of Natural Resources
and Forestry um to cover those. So if

362
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:18,880
there's an incident uh such as wildfire
in the location, we would collectively

363
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:23,039
respond the location. We'd be the first
aid department. um our fire apparatus

364
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:26,960
crews and officer in charge would
contact the ministry. Um and then they

365
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:30,159
would be making a decision based on if
they're going to respond to that or not.

366
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:34,799
And if they do, it would be a collective
effort to extinguish that fire. Um they

367
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:38,640
may take over the fire if it's u outside
of Highland scope or they may ask that

368
00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:43,200
we remain on scene uh to assist with
that. So those lands would continue to

369
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,720
be protested um at the same level um in
in coordination with the ministry. Great

370
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:50,559
question. Thank you. It might be a
little bit of death, but going back to

371
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:55,519
what Tracy said, does it not make more
sense to keep a fire at all open until

372
00:32:52,960 --> 00:33:00,559
you get
>> Yeah. Again, I'll go back to um fiscal

373
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:04,880
responsibility. how much it's going to
cost by new apparatus and everything at

374
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:09,039
that point.
But

375
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:14,799
until something is there to replace it,
does it not make more sense to keep it

376
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:18,480
open what the existing is, even if it
isn't correct to the new program that

377
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:23,360
you guys are doing?
>> Again, we're looking at, you know, my

378
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:27,919
job as fire chief is to manage our
resources and the fiscal responsibility

379
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:31,200
for the taxpayers of L Islands. Um and
that is dubbed by long-term planning,

380
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:36,640
asset manure plans, which are ongoing
right now. and the fiscal responsibility

381
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:42,080
of replacing two apparatus um in one
year which we um basically cannot afford

382
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:46,000
at this present day um would put a
substantial burden on the taxpayers of

383
00:33:43,679 --> 00:33:49,440
lantern islands um if we were to just
not close that fire hall now and

384
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:54,159
consolidate it with station two um you'd
be seeing like an upwards of $2 million

385
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:56,640
additional um tax levy uh as soon as
next year on all residents for Atlantic

386
00:33:55,919 --> 00:34:01,120
Islands
>> and and how about the cost of the uh the

387
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,840
new firefalls
>> what what is the cost of the new fire

388
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,399
halls.
>> That's a great question as well. So

389
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:09,280
again, we're in the middle of the asset
management plan and we're going to get

390
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:12,399
into questions like we have lots of time
to go over questions. Um we're in the

391
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:16,079
middle of an asset management plan
that's ongoing right now and these are

392
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:19,599
all decisions that are based on that and
we have another component is a building

393
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:23,280
condition assessment. So as you can
imagine, Atlantic Highlands has

394
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,480
substantial assets in buildings
throughout the Highlands. So what this

395
00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:29,599
plan is going to do is going to lay out
the condition of these buildings, where

396
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:34,159
we'll move going forward, and that
allows Highlands residents to plan for

397
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:39,119
the future and not bear significant
financial costs uh if we're not planning

398
00:34:36,720 --> 00:34:44,879
adequately for the future. Yeah, that
that didn't answer the question though

399
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:55,280
because you must have a at some kind of
idea of the cost of the new firefalls

400
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:59,599
in comparison to the 1.75 million to
refurbish the ones that are there. Yep.

401
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:06,720
that
you know are are serving the you know

402
00:35:02,079 --> 00:35:11,760
serving the the area and to you know if
you don't have the money for that how

403
00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:18,400
can you have the money well you haven't
told me how much you buyer house cost so

404
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:24,720
um there is where that money comes from
and then it sounds like

405
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:28,560
there's no date
or or

406
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:35,599
nobody Nobody seems to know when the
fire halls are going to be built up. So

407
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:39,119
we could be out without any fire hall at
all for what two three four years

408
00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:42,880
period.
>> Yeah. So I'm going to try and answer

409
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:48,480
that to the best of my ability. It was
quite lengthy. Um so in regards to the

410
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:55,280
fire halls as these our consultants have
alluded to our response force is not yes

411
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:58,720
the the fire hall is consolidating but
the response and the effective response

412
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:03,440
that you guys are receiving is still
going to be there. Um and again when it

413
00:36:01,359 --> 00:36:06,160
comes to the cost of the new station
it's not just looking at the cost of

414
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,760
that new station. The existing
infrastructure we have throughout house

415
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,800
from station one through station 4
there's significant health and safety

416
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,880
risks that we have to address. So
there's going to be sign significant

417
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:20,800
costs to remain status quo as well and
as our consultants have alluded to um

418
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,960
there are significant cost that goes
along with retrofit. Um but these will

419
00:36:23,359 --> 00:36:29,359
be discussed through our manner plan
with council um with the incoming

420
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:36,480
council that will be um on board next
October. Um these are um very major

421
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:39,920
milestones and projects for lands as a
whole. Um so these are decisions you

422
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:45,200
don't want to rush and you know build
something just because we feel we need

423
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:49,760
it. um station two consolidation with
Ford will adequately address our

424
00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:54,560
response for now and then we will be
addressing our infrastructure for the

425
00:36:52,000 --> 00:37:01,280
buildings and just just to give you some
comfort um in a volunteer model

426
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:05,680
the location of the building is not the
essential piece to your response the

427
00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:09,680
there is a lot of discussion about shoot
time and turnout time that depends on

428
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:14,640
where your volunteers are coming from
and also the pool of your volunteers So

429
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,920
if you have more people available, like
more people in your pool of responding

430
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:22,240
volunteers, chances are you're going to
have people show up sooner. So actually

431
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:26,960
by taking the two pools of our fire hall
4 and our fire hall 2 and having them

432
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:32,160
respond together, you are likely to get
a very similar if not possibly improved

433
00:37:29,359 --> 00:37:37,040
at times um response to your actual
door. So please keep in mind like the

434
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:42,880
closure of a building is not the closure
of a fire department. We are still um a

435
00:37:40,079 --> 00:37:47,839
volunteer department dedicated to uh to
responding effectively. Um just a little

436
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:51,920
piece on the costing part. Although we
don't have specific numbers on a

437
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:57,839
station, one new I think the concept is
one new station um is expected to cost

438
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:03,440
less. Uh so we'd come down to the point
where we have three

439
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:07,760
uh good condition fire halls instead of
where we began with five fireh halls

440
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:13,359
that all need a substantial amount of
work and five fireh halls that all need

441
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:18,880
a pumper, a tanker, a rescue apparatus
to move individuals around. Being able

442
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:24,560
to do that from three fire stations
allows less capital costs on the

443
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:28,720
facilities as well as fewer apparatus to
purchase and maintain. and that the

444
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:33,760
costs of apparatus have driven up very
very quickly and very aggressively since

445
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:37,839
2020. So that's just to give a a
concept. It's more the scale and the

446
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:41,599
number of of items that we're replacing.
Yes, they are still high ticket costly

447
00:38:39,839 --> 00:38:45,440
items that we have to manage, but at
least there's fewer of them to try to to

448
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:50,800
deal with.
>> But the master fire plan said that the

449
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:54,320
Middle Hall was inadequate to meet
today's standards and all that sort of

450
00:38:52,480 --> 00:39:00,000
thing. And then if you go a little bit
further in the in the that document said

451
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:05,280
that the Tatlock Hall still had 20 years
of life left in it. So have we

452
00:39:02,240 --> 00:39:09,839
considered moving station two to
amalgamate station 4 take advantage of

453
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:16,079
the municipal garage down there for
storage. Has that been looked at? Great

454
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:18,240
question. I appreciate that. So we have
looked at all scenarios. Have you looked

455
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,640
at that one?
>> And I I believe it's going to answer the

456
00:39:19,839 --> 00:39:24,720
question. Thank you.
>> Okay. Um,

457
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:30,720
we've looked at our personnel mapping
um, and where our firefighters reside

458
00:39:27,839 --> 00:39:35,040
and I think, you know, by showing the
shoe time on the station for response

459
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:41,200
right now, um, in the 10 minutes, those
trucks aren't checking out. Um, so it is

460
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:44,480
not beneficial in the long term to
consolidate those two stations at a

461
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,240
location where no trucks are responding
within 10 minutes, where we already have

462
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:53,280
those trucks staffed with personnel that
are ready to make an effective task

463
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:57,440
force upon their arrive from the
combined station two which is going to

464
00:39:55,119 --> 00:40:00,160
have more than 30 firefighters to go to
that one station.

465
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:07,040
» So I do understand that but maybe back
to this other person's question about um

466
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:12,720
finding why are we amalgamating now we
don't have all been and the middle build

467
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:18,160
um firewalls to my understanding has
like got 25 different efficiencies that

468
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:22,400
need to be brought up to code. Um, so
why are we doing that now?

469
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:27,760
» Great question as well. I think if you
look through that, there's numerous

470
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:33,920
deficiencies at every station.
>> Um, and a significant risk for the fire

471
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:37,119
service. Um, and I think that allowed us
with our priorities on moving forward

472
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,800
how we're going to manage these
infrastructure uh, decisions. And again,

473
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:44,079
we're at a great point right now where
we're doing building condition

474
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:49,760
assessment. And since the master
pipeline, we made great strides on some

475
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:54,320
of our firefighter um contamination
decontamination policies um in station

476
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:57,760
what we're doing to cleanse those. So I
think you know there is deficiencies and

477
00:40:56,079 --> 00:41:02,960
you do know we're going to outroll that
station. Um but again it comes back to

478
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:06,880
our fleet uh costing and that's an
immediate uh tomorrow expense if we do

479
00:41:05,599 --> 00:41:11,760
not move forward with the recommendation
of the master fire plan which was

480
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:20,480
endorsed by council in 21.
>> Yeah. But in combining station two and

481
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:26,400
station 4, if their fleet is up to date
more than station two's fleet, would it

482
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:33,839
or station 4's fleet, would it not make
sense to combine them into station 4

483
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:37,440
than station two when station 4 is at
higher

484
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:42,079
» patterns than station two?
>> If we could layer those. So the the

485
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:47,359
driver on timing is the fleet and the
the fleet changes. The driver on

486
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:51,280
geography are our volunteers and their
historic response times. How fast they

487
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:54,800
are able to get to the station, who's
turning out, who's showing up, who's

488
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:59,119
available for daytime calls, uh the
numbers of volunteers we're getting.

489
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:03,440
Those numbers are higher in the station
2 area than we've been able to achieve

490
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:05,680
in the station 4 area. So that's if we
can think about those in in two

491
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,200
different pieces. If
>> I could just finish the the last

492
00:42:07,359 --> 00:42:15,280
scenario that we're talking about when
we're proposing about having that

493
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:21,040
station built to be very close to here.
U you could see the effect overall on

494
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:26,880
the protection of not only the citizens,
not only the high-risisk areas, but also

495
00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:31,280
the firefighters. It it's got the best
effective response force numbers. And

496
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:35,440
again, those numbers were all based on
what's the average number of

497
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:39,599
firefighters that show up to a call.
Okay? So, you take those from all the

498
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:43,680
stations and you converge them. Station
4, for instance, that you talk about,

499
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:48,640
there's not sufficient number of
volunteers that live there. So, moving a

500
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:53,520
station up there would take 10 minutes
or 20 minutes to get to the station and

501
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:59,119
then back to where those firefighters
come from. So, and also there's nothing

502
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:03,839
worse in the fire service. one or two
firefighters arriving at a fire all by

503
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:08,640
themselves, not prepared, ready to go
because they haven't got the ability to

504
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:12,640
to to dawn and their protective
equipment as they're driving to the

505
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:17,599
call. So those things have to be taken
into consideration because you don't

506
00:43:14,079 --> 00:43:22,800
want to put them in harm or uh you know
for these for those types of calls. You

507
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:27,839
need to be able to have sufficient
resources fighting the fire together or

508
00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:32,560
even
in in a timely air factor where the it's

509
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:36,319
just as those first firefighters are
getting exhausted, the second

510
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:40,560
firefighters are showing up to relieve
them so that we can, you know, you can

511
00:43:38,079 --> 00:43:47,200
get to a place where you could be more
strategic and less reactive. So these

512
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:50,880
that this model and we had to we put
them in boards because it's kind of hard

513
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,640
to be jumping from one to another to
another, you know, but you can come up

514
00:43:53,280 --> 00:44:00,240
and see these boards.
>> Sure. and uh and and take a look at them

515
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:07,200
a little closer. But now you understand
hopefully that the areas where they

516
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:12,560
overlap is the areas that best protected
not only for the citizens but for the

517
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:16,400
firefighters themselves.
So um

518
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:22,640
take please take that into consideration
when you're looking at the maps.

519
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:28,160
» But we are no longer volunteers.
Everybody has to now apply

520
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:35,839
to the township to become a firefighter
and then they place them where they feel

521
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:44,000
is needed. So because they're planning
on closing station 4, they don't place

522
00:44:39,599 --> 00:44:47,319
them in station 4. So there again, it's
not a volunteer.

523
00:44:47,839 --> 00:44:53,119
They have to apply. They have to pass
tests.

524
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:56,640
not volunteer anymore.
>> Thanks, Tracy. And that's exactly why

525
00:44:54,880 --> 00:45:01,040
this slates campaign we did, we did
campaign.

526
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:04,800
» The numbers are not accurate at all.
>> And that's why when we did our previous

527
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:08,079
hire for this year, it's a great point.
I mean, they're not volunteers. These

528
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:13,520
are paid part-time firefighters. And
that's what we did advertise as um and

529
00:45:11,119 --> 00:45:14,560
placed everywhere we were planning on
posing.

530
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:20,880
» Yeah.
>> So, yeah. their volunteers. I want to

531
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:25,800
give you accurate numbers because
they're not volunteers. They're being

532
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,800
placed where

533
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:32,160
» how many were placed in town.
>> I'm just wondering where you bought that

534
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:37,520
information. As a fire chief, um I do
receive the applications. Um I take your

535
00:45:35,839 --> 00:45:42,160
address where you reside. I enter it
into Google Maps. I populate it to the

536
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:46,319
two closest fire stations and you were
placed at the fire station that is

537
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:49,119
closest to you. Um I I haven't found a
system that works better than that yet.

538
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:52,640
I mean I am very open if there's a
better way to do that. Um in the past I

539
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:56,160
can't answer what the previous fire
chiefs have done to be completely honest

540
00:45:54,079 --> 00:46:00,160
in my two years as chief that is
consistent with how my hiring has been

541
00:45:57,839 --> 00:46:04,319
occurring. Um we complete campaigns. We
do it as one on boarding a and there's

542
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,599
significant risk that goes along with
hiring. We have to make sure certain

543
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:12,079
clearances are met, physical conditions
are met, medicals are completed. There's

544
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,440
substantial paperwork that has to be
checked. It's not just unfortunately in

545
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:19,839
the old days when we started with these
fire stations of signing a piece of

546
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:24,560
paper and jumping on board. There's many
more hoops go through and Lannard

547
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:29,040
Highlands is probably more lax than a
lot of part-time fire departments are to

548
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:33,520
be completely on on our on boarding
because we do have such an issue with

549
00:46:31,119 --> 00:46:36,960
recruitment or retention. Um so I can
assure you that I'm not placing

550
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:40,319
firefighters at you know from Catwalk
and Lar Village. That's not occurring.

551
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,839
uh it's based on where you reside and
what fire station you're closest to.

552
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:48,960
» But you're you're right, the the term
volunteer is a historic term that goes

553
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:53,200
back way in time when people truly were
volunteers and nowadays they are paid

554
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,079
employees. It's it's not a lot of money,
especially not for the amount of

555
00:46:54,400 --> 00:47:00,079
training and work that it takes. There
is still a large commitment to that that

556
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:06,480
is people's heart and soul that are
going into it. Um but in Ontario and in

557
00:47:03,599 --> 00:47:11,680
the industry, the way that the very
strong professional firefighters union

558
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:17,200
works, um our term for them needs to be
volunteer firefighters. It can't be

559
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:22,079
part-time uh firefighters. It's just the
that's the terminology in the industry.

560
00:47:20,079 --> 00:47:29,200
» Let me let me see if I've got this
straight. You're giving it you're giving

561
00:47:24,240 --> 00:47:35,839
us uh two B and 2C scenarios of fire
stations that are going to be built long

562
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:40,800
after I'm dead. And
so you're moving,

563
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:45,599
you're closing station four or
amalgamating station four with station

564
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:51,680
two because you can't afford to buy a
new pumper and a new tank.

565
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:58,560
And what we're going to end up with is
is the firefighters

566
00:47:54,160 --> 00:48:04,359
working out of station two with one less
pumper and one less tanker than we have

567
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,359
now. Is that correct?

568
00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:14,640
» Yeah. No. So, so the scope of the work
that we did was to ensure that we would

569
00:48:11,359 --> 00:48:19,200
have enough firefighters within the area
that we've shown on the maps. The

570
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:24,800
closure of station four, the
amalgamation

571
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:31,280
of station two was to ensure two things.
One, um the municipality or the township

572
00:48:28,319 --> 00:48:35,920
is is is got a big package over its head
in terms of building conditions for all

573
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:40,559
their fire halls.
They've been uh recommended in the

574
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:45,920
previous fire master plan to go to a
three-station model which will be more

575
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:48,920
effective by being able to strategically
basically

576
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,520
stay with me because I'm I'm getting to
the point here

577
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:56,559
» strategically locate them in the right
area.

578
00:48:54,319 --> 00:49:01,440
» So, a couple things will evolve out of
that. Number one, um there will be a

579
00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:07,760
reassessment of the type of vehicles
that have to be purchased. There is of

580
00:49:05,359 --> 00:49:12,319
um insurance coverage and fire
underwriter surveys that have to be

581
00:49:09,359 --> 00:49:17,680
addressed to ensure that the chief has
the resources to keep trucks running.

582
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:21,839
And under the legislation, you can only
run them for so long. And so new trucks

583
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:25,440
come along. Yes, we talked about higher
costs. That's a given for any fire

584
00:49:23,599 --> 00:49:29,359
department across Ontario. They're
astronomical. More importantly, as I

585
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:34,079
said at the very beginning, they're
larger, they're taller, they're wider,

586
00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:39,359
they are difficult to put into a lot of
existing facilities. So, the option to

587
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:45,680
be able to create a new station to
attract uh maybe more volunteers to a

588
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:51,200
new area in a new facility to house
specific tankers or pumpers in that

589
00:49:47,839 --> 00:49:57,280
facility of a larger size so that the
trucks that get out on the road can

590
00:49:53,599 --> 00:50:01,760
perform higher duties, more work than
the current status. So, we'll have more

591
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:06,400
more pump tanks or more tankers that
would be out on the road, which would

592
00:50:03,359 --> 00:50:14,160
allow the chief to be able to utilize
that factor to get trucks to a location

593
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:19,040
with more volume. And the the byproduct
of all of that, and I'm talking down the

594
00:50:16,319 --> 00:50:23,760
road, hopefully not too far down the
road because I'd like you to see it. The

595
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:28,800
fact of the matter is is that having a
larger truck doesn't just mitigate the

596
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:32,400
fact that it can't fit in a fire hole.
The truck is actually serving a higher

597
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:37,280
purpose and that is it's being able to
bring more water to the site for

598
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:42,079
firefighter safety and for protection of
the residents. But more importantly, it

599
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:46,400
allows the chief in the coming years to
look at what's called a fire underwriter

600
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:52,000
survey and a superior tanker shuttle
survey to say to the residents of

601
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:56,319
Atlanta Highlands, we have an
accreditation or we're working toward an

602
00:50:54,400 --> 00:51:01,760
accreditation because we've now
increased the number of trucks that we

603
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:06,079
have uh that are more useful within the
scope of this plan.

604
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:11,440
that maybe the rates for insurance
purposes and maybe the rates for higher

605
00:51:08,559 --> 00:51:18,559
underwriters survey can be recognized by
giving a designation to the to land

606
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:22,559
islands for um superior tanker shuttle
service and fire underwriters. These are

607
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:26,960
both things that the chief has to be
well aware of because if you don't have

608
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:31,839
some kind of coverage under your
insurance portfolio uh and you end up

609
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:38,240
running vehicles that that don't have
insurance, it exposes the municipality

610
00:51:34,720 --> 00:51:42,640
massive liabilities. So going forward in
the plan, our role was to look at

611
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:47,760
ensuring that we could get same number
or relative number of firefighters to a

612
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:51,520
fire scene to protect the fire scene to
protect the firefighters. But more

613
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:56,559
importantly, consolidating some of the
vehicles, make them larger vehicles to

614
00:51:54,800 --> 00:52:00,160
improve the service down the road. It's
not going to happen next week. It's not

615
00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:05,359
going to happen next year. This is a
multi-year plan. When the first fire

616
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:09,680
master plan came out, like typically the
fire master plans that we've done for so

617
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:15,760
many municipalities are basically a 5 to
10 year window in order to provide the

618
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:21,440
fire chief with a vision to allow the
CEO to budget accordingly over the next

619
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:25,920
5 to 10 years uh the type of resources
that they're going to require whether

620
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:31,920
that be new tankers, new pumper tankers,
new PPE, uh whatever it may be their

621
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:37,359
forecasting model has to be somewhat
accurate. And so in order to get to that

622
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:42,880
point, it's important that they look at
a consolidation model,

623
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:47,839
still have the same coverage.
A relocated station allows you to still

624
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:52,480
provide that coverage as Jerry put on
the maps up on the board, but at a

625
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:56,240
better cost and better service to the to
the community.

626
00:52:53,520 --> 00:53:01,280
» That's that's all very fine. That's all
that's all very fine and good,

627
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:04,559
» but that's all in the future and and and
you know, it'll be years and years and

628
00:53:03,119 --> 00:53:09,040
years in the future. We're building a
new fire station in McDonald's corners

629
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:14,720
and and that's been an ongoing thing for
years. What we're here tonight to talk

630
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:19,680
about is is annoying station two with
station 4. And what you've been saying,

631
00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:25,359
what you've just said has nothing to do
with that. uh because uh and from what I

632
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:31,440
can see, the only reason that we're
closing fire station 4 and and putting

633
00:53:29,119 --> 00:53:35,440
the pumps in fire station two is because
they can't afford to buy a new pump, new

634
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:45,040
pumper and a new tanker. They can't
report afford to replace equip. Now, is

635
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:51,280
is does station two uh have a better uh
air quality and and and any other stuff

636
00:53:48,640 --> 00:53:56,480
that you were talking about earlier in
the evening or is it as as bad as

637
00:53:53,599 --> 00:54:02,079
station four?
>> So, to to answer and elaborate um on

638
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:06,079
Chris's point there. So, we have taken
boards of council. I mean, fleet is only

639
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:11,680
one one component of this. Um the most
important metric that matters to myself

640
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:16,880
the consultants CEO and council is the
firefighters health and safety and

641
00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:19,440
wellbeing. Um and when you look at
>> the public

642
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:22,800
» if you look pardon
>> the public

643
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:25,280
» and the coverage
>> for sure and that's that's what we have

644
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:29,680
done there.
>> Jerry is it possible to show the

645
00:54:27,359 --> 00:54:34,880
existing stations and their coverage and
do you have the ability to turn on and

646
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:39,599
off stations? I just wondered if but to
my point the fleet replacement plan that

647
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:43,839
we have so on consolidation we are
reducing our fleet capital cost by three

648
00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:48,319
apparatus and we're increasing our water
carrying capability by 33%. So if you

649
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:52,160
look at that that is a huge improvement
for taxpayers landed highlands with less

650
00:54:50,319 --> 00:54:55,839
cost but an increase where we're
actually going to be able to have our

651
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:59,119
tank accreditation
>> going to go up

652
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:06,079
» which is going to be have huge benefits
on the tax on the insurance rate for

653
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:11,359
individuals. I understand this you know
>> cost that at this time like the earlier

654
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:20,640
gentleman said is really not necessary.
I mean what's the cost to hire your

655
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:25,520
consulting fee the uh CEO's time I mean
how is it what's the cost benefit factor

656
00:55:23,839 --> 00:55:28,319
here for us
>> and again back to

657
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:34,319
» the tax legislation
>> that it seems to me that you're driving

658
00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:40,000
people away from enjoying their summers
from u coming up into an area that is

659
00:55:37,839 --> 00:55:45,200
full of tourists. There's a higher risk
of fires across Canada and the forests

660
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:50,799
around here are quite literally capable
of catching fire at any time.

661
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:55,200
» So I don't see the the benefit of
changing anything at this particular

662
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:59,839
moment. There's pressure on the people's
dollar. There's high there's high

663
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:06,720
unemployment and you're you're putting
taxes increasing

664
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:11,280
our debt vote when when this country is
already struggling.

665
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:15,359
I I was just to respond to that, you
know, and your points are quite valid

666
00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:17,920
about increasing candidates debt.
>> I mean,

667
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:22,960
» but if you don't take any if you don't
take any provision like the chief and

668
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:27,040
the CEO is are working on if you don't
make that move,

669
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:32,000
» you're going to be strapped with
excessive costs based on what you have

670
00:56:29,839 --> 00:56:33,520
right now. And so the plan moving
forward,

671
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:38,880
» have we done the broad
>> the plan? The plan, the plan moving

672
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:44,000
forward is to look strategically at what
is the best option for the municipality

673
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:49,280
to ensure that they don't skyrocket
taxes and they still protect the

674
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:53,200
citizens and by looking at the the maps
that that

675
00:56:50,319 --> 00:56:58,400
» I would ask another question is like
>> I would I would ask respectfully sir I

676
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:02,480
would ask that you let me finish okay
>> before you move into another question

677
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:07,200
but we had a we had a question about
putting up a fresh that. But one of the

678
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:10,960
concerns that you would have is, and you
may not see this because you're not the

679
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:17,200
fire chief, but one of the concerns that
you have is, yes, new trucks are

680
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:20,559
expensive, but B, the new trucks might
not even fit in your existing fires,

681
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:25,680
right?
>> And your building condition assessment

682
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:31,359
in all your fire halls is is going to be
a large cost as well. And so having a

683
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:35,680
vision to look ahead by consolidating a
couple of stations while still providing

684
00:57:33,119 --> 00:57:43,319
the protection allows the municipality
to keep their cost under control.

685
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:43,319
I would ask additionally

686
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:56,240
council has done or and your consulting
company have done a broad scan

687
00:57:53,119 --> 00:58:02,400
of the strategic partners in the
coverage areas. the the cause and

688
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:08,160
effect. For example, how would this
impact the time to get a person to a

689
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:13,760
hospital and
you know life's being at at stake in

690
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:18,720
essence? I mean, we've had we have a
great fire chief. He served this area

691
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:25,440
very well under the harshest of
conditions and I applaud him if he's

692
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:31,599
present here tonight. Um I don't see a
costbenefit ratio. I just don't

693
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:34,160
» and I guess that's what the purpose of
tonight is to try to relay everybody in

694
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:38,960
this room
>> that this is the the cost effective

695
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:43,040
model and that it is complicated uh and
there are a lot of moving parts

696
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:47,040
» is not complex
>> but I think even there's more than

697
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:51,200
financial. So we've taken and numerous
consultants have taken um whether it's

698
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:54,559
five patient, seventh patient models.
We're not just looking at cost. We're

699
00:58:52,400 --> 00:59:00,240
also looking at call volume um
demographics of where our calls are and

700
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:04,720
we have substantial data showing where
our calls are populated over the past

701
00:59:01,839 --> 00:59:09,920
10, 15, 20 years and they are consistent
in you know the other three stations the

702
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:13,440
call volume is substantial. Um station
four members have done a tremendous job

703
00:59:11,599 --> 00:59:17,440
and they are amazing firefighters don't
get me wrong. the call volume is

704
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:21,280
certainly less there and there's a
higher medical side and that as chief

705
00:59:19,680 --> 00:59:25,839
that's why I'm having meetings with the
paramedic service and Ler County trying

706
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:30,880
to address the medical side because
that's what an issue is in in this

707
00:59:28,079 --> 00:59:35,119
really remote area is medical that's a
major concern of mine and I'm sure it is

708
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:38,559
of many taxpayers that are sitting in
this room

709
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:42,079
» and that is why I am working with county
paramedics to make sure we get a better

710
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:45,839
service for you guys than what you're
currently getting

711
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:49,920
» lens fire. We're on a tiered program.
So, I'm sitting here tonight, I could

712
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:55,280
fall down from a heart attack and every
single volunteer firefighter here. We

713
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:59,440
may never know and get a call for that.
Okay? It's all tiered based on time. We

714
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:04,000
have no control. So, if you're you live
beside Tal Fire Station and you go down,

715
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:08,400
the fire trucks and firefighters will
never know potentially the word. It's

716
01:00:06,319 --> 01:00:13,440
all based on a system. It's not
automatic tier. So, there's conditions

717
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:16,240
of greater 20 minutes. And so that's
just a misconception I think that's out

718
01:00:14,799 --> 01:00:19,440
there. And that's why I want to improve
it and make it so that there's programs

719
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:24,000
in place such as neighbors saving
neighbors that would be very beneficial

720
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:28,559
for rarely remote areas such as Tatwa
and Clyde Horse where you could have

721
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:32,400
members on scene in minutes to save you
with that a provided by Leonard County.

722
01:00:30,480 --> 01:00:36,079
That's not out of ler islands taxpayers
money. So those are things that we're

723
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:40,079
looking at with Ler County and we fully
support. So there's a lot of things that

724
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:43,359
we're trying to do and medical is a very
valid thing. That is station four's

725
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:46,880
highest call volume and that's why I'm
doing it myself to make sure we're

726
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:50,079
looking at what's going to work best for
the residents of Tablock to make sure

727
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:55,920
they're probably invalidation.
>> And and where you live and where you

728
01:00:52,079 --> 01:01:01,040
sleep is where you personally are at the
greatest fire risk. Okay. Yes, the

729
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:05,920
forest area could have a forest fire,
but there typically that isn't going to

730
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:10,720
impact the individuals in this room, at
least not immediately. But being in your

731
01:01:08,799 --> 01:01:14,880
own house and in your own bed when
you're sleeping, is when you're most at

732
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:19,760
risk for fire. And your best defense is
to have a working smoke alarm on every

733
01:01:16,799 --> 01:01:23,040
level of your home and to be able to
find your way out of your home

734
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:26,960
efficiently and fast. That's having a
home escape plan, knowing where you're

735
01:01:24,559 --> 01:01:32,000
going, um, and getting yourself out. And
that counts for um a homeowner in

736
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:37,040
downtown Toronto with a full-time fire
service built to the nines that costs

737
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:40,960
millions and millions of dollars. Same
thing. That individual will be uh

738
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:44,319
protecting their own safety with a
working smoke alarm and a home escape

739
01:01:42,559 --> 01:01:49,119
plan. So, if I can kind of preach
anything with this, it's please, please,

740
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:52,240
please make sure that those pieces, and
I would say this to any Lannarch

741
01:01:50,559 --> 01:01:57,760
Highlands resident, no matter where our
fire station is or where our volunteers

742
01:01:54,480 --> 01:02:01,359
are, please have working smoke alarms
and review and practice a home escape

743
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:06,160
plan. And that is what is going to save
your lives at the end of the day.

744
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:09,680
» Get off that soap box, but that's very,
very important to me because I know that

745
01:02:07,599 --> 01:02:13,359
will make an impact
by building that hall as a community.

746
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:17,040
That hall will not save your life. A
working smoke alarm will.

747
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:20,960
» That hall has saved many lives.
>> That hall is a building.

748
01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:26,559
» That hall is a building. The individuals
who are our our fire response are the

749
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:28,799
ones that are able to help you put out
the fire, maintain the fire of your

750
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:31,520
structure.
>> Yes.

751
01:02:29,359 --> 01:02:36,799
» And your home and your house.
>> But um we just we can't get you can't

752
01:02:34,799 --> 01:02:41,760
get to a person in a minute or less. And
that's when you're you could possibly

753
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:45,599
perish in a fire in in less than four
minutes. And there is no volunteer

754
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:48,240
service in Ontario that is going to be
able to get to your house in less than

755
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,720
four minutes or anyone's house in less
than four minutes.

756
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:52,319
» Can I speak to that? Can I speak to
that?

757
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:59,520
» Please do. Yeah.
>> You guys all talked about shoe times

758
01:02:55,119 --> 01:03:06,640
from off 10 or 12 minutes. I had a fire
myself

759
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:12,079
» right around the corner and was Michelle
the wife from the shooting and another

760
01:03:09,119 --> 01:03:16,960
guy came within minutes
>> and saved my place thank Michelle

761
01:03:14,079 --> 01:03:19,839
» that is excellent do you know how
>> so I don't believe in the credibility of

762
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,839
your study at all
>> how long it took

763
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:27,760
our fire department has a full
compliment you have to speak to that

764
01:03:25,839 --> 01:03:31,200
date
And they've done an excellent job for

765
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:35,440
years and years and years.
>> I think to give Michelle's credit, she

766
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:38,079
certainly did a fabulous job. I I was I
was in the second in apparatus from my

767
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:40,480
village for that fire.
>> Sure.

768
01:03:38,559 --> 01:03:43,839
» I was in the second in apparatus from
village um the day the fire and

769
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:47,520
» Michelle certainly did a great job.
Unfortunately, she was by herself. Um

770
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:53,440
which is a substantial risk to
Michelle's safety and the liability for

771
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:57,440
Atlantic Highlands as a whole. Um what
these gentlemen have talked about is an

772
01:03:55,119 --> 01:04:01,280
effective response force. Well, she was
with another guy and then within minutes

773
01:03:59,599 --> 01:04:05,839
other people showed up to us but I don't
know how many people were there after

774
01:04:02,559 --> 01:04:10,079
because I had that kind of bleeding.
>> I'm pleased that you thought that was it

775
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:13,839
was standing response because it was and
I'm pleased that that second end

776
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:17,039
apparatus from Lance Village was one of
those ones you thought was coming from

777
01:04:15,280 --> 01:04:19,839
Tadwalk which is amazing and that's what
we're getting to with this whole thing.

778
01:04:18,319 --> 01:04:24,240
So the system that we're putting in
place that is telling me that works that

779
01:04:22,319 --> 01:04:27,839
that's exactly what your story
>> I'm just saying myself

780
01:04:25,359 --> 01:04:32,720
» Michelle saved my life
not you guys Michelle right here and the

781
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:37,480
other guys showed up
>> stand up stand up

782
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:49,599
but this
we are we do bases on average, right?

783
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:53,359
So, you're going to have the lower ones,
you're going to have the higher ones,

784
01:04:51,119 --> 01:05:00,240
and it comes to an average up. So, the
the data we had was was very good, and I

785
01:04:56,799 --> 01:05:06,559
I stand behind those numbers because and
then, of course, the the analytics in

786
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:12,480
this program basics on them. So there's
a

787
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:17,760
an example of 2B, the the station two.
That's there's property owned by the

788
01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:23,200
municipality. That would be 2B. And
that's the that's how much

789
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:26,760
» in in 20 minutes.
>> And where is Tatlo?

790
01:05:28,319 --> 01:05:34,640
» Is it in the green area at all?
>> Right there.

791
01:05:32,559 --> 01:05:38,240
» All of Tatlock's in that green area.
>> No. No, exactly.

792
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,599
» Not all the cat stations.
>> So the ones that are out of it, forget

793
01:05:40,319 --> 01:05:46,319
it.
>> So again, back to um the the great map

794
01:05:44,799 --> 01:05:50,880
that these gentlemen are showing about
effective task force response that we

795
01:05:48,319 --> 01:05:55,680
keep going back to in that area. You
guys u are averaging three firefighters.

796
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:58,480
So essentially we cannot make an entry
with three firefighters. It is

797
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:02,880
impossible to make an entry with three
firefighters. The safety. So with the

798
01:06:01,119 --> 01:06:06,720
map that they were showing what could be
you guys are up to the 12 firefighters

799
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:10,720
in that response area. We can do an
effective fast attack and knock down a

800
01:06:08,799 --> 01:06:15,440
fire with 12 firefighters. We cannot do
that with less than three parts safely.

801
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:20,319
» Maybe you should place more firefighters
up here

802
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:23,119
» because it's not volunteer
anymore.

803
01:06:21,119 --> 01:06:26,559
» I I will say this publicly. I am going
to be recruiting if anybody wants to

804
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:31,680
join the fire service. I'm more than
happy. Currently, we're not

805
01:06:29,119 --> 01:06:33,920
» want to join a fire service that their
station is closing.

806
01:06:33,359 --> 01:06:37,920
» Exactly.
>> You just don't understand that. Same

807
01:06:35,839 --> 01:06:43,839
thing happened in White Lake. It went
down to little to none firefighters

808
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:46,960
because nobody's going to join a fire
station that is closing.

809
01:06:45,359 --> 01:06:49,440
» And I think to your point, one of the
benefits we have

810
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:53,520
» all the training
>> is the recruitment. The amount of

811
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:56,880
recruitment that a new fire station will
bring to the township will be

812
01:06:54,880 --> 01:07:01,440
substantial. I I will put my word on it.
If we do have a new fire station, that

813
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:04,559
is going to draw recruitment. Most
certainly.

814
01:07:01,920 --> 01:07:09,599
» Maybe we should get that first though.
It's the whole issue.

815
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:13,920
Let's close it down and have no
protection for what, five to 10 years.

816
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:18,400
That's a lot of years. I
>> I appreciate your point, Tracy. I think

817
01:07:16,079 --> 01:07:23,599
we've went over this quite a few times.
Uh and we haven't even finished our

818
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:26,640
presentation to be quite honest. Um, but
I mean we're trying to demonstrate that

819
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:30,799
the response is still there for the
residents of Tawa. That that is the key

820
01:07:29,039 --> 01:07:36,559
message of this whole thing and when
we're looking at this and and the data

821
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:41,920
that's in the GIS that we're working
with that is reassuring that this is a

822
01:07:39,839 --> 01:07:47,440
good decision for the long-term
stability for townships and staff

823
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:54,799
service. Could you show me the map where
station four's coverage from say Midal

824
01:07:51,520 --> 01:08:02,319
and Lannarch's response to stations two
coverage from say station four and

825
01:07:58,559 --> 01:08:05,520
Lannarch's response? And let's see the
difference.

826
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:08,880
» I'm not sure what you're asking. This
one here

827
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:14,240
» wants to know how the response times are
to cover the areas of station middle

828
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:21,679
station
compared to the average of covering

829
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:27,199
Tatlock station by the surrounding
because you've got three stations

830
01:08:23,759 --> 01:08:32,719
remaining open in the south part of the
township leaving the northern part of

831
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:38,319
the township with none. One of the very
important aspects of that, if we're

832
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:42,000
looking at a 20 minute um response,
um if we're looking at 20-minute

833
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:45,359
response, your three stations, two
stations are on main corridors. If you

834
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:49,359
look at station two and station one,
they're on main corridors that are

835
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:53,759
county um roads, which give them a
tremendous response advantage. Um, when

836
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:57,600
we're looking at 20 minutes, that lock
station is at about 9 and a half minutes

837
01:08:55,679 --> 01:09:02,480
out of the station 20 minutes, whereas
your other stations are in the ballpark

838
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:06,560
at 16 minutes on the road at that point.
So, those are staggering, very important

839
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:10,560
numbers that again help drive this
decision. So, I think I kind of

840
01:09:08,480 --> 01:09:14,719
understand what you're saying, but the
other stations right now with their

841
01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:21,759
shoot times, they're they're on the road
for long times ahead. And then Donalders

842
01:09:18,719 --> 01:09:27,440
and Lard are five 10 minutes away from
each other

843
01:09:23,440 --> 01:09:29,920
and their coverage for Tatlock would be
what 30 minutes.

844
01:09:28,719 --> 01:09:34,560
» Not at all.
>> Be pretty close by the time firefighters

845
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:38,960
get pa get to the hall and get to
Tatlock is where the fire is.

846
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:42,080
» I I would applaud this because I think
that goes hand in hand with the

847
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:46,080
gentleman and kudos to Michelle or great
work there. Um, but again what I what I

848
01:09:44,239 --> 01:09:51,440
just stated is I responded from Planner
Village to this gentleman's house which

849
01:09:47,920 --> 01:09:54,880
is just behind us here and I was there
as they were putting agent applied. So

850
01:09:53,440 --> 01:10:00,719
that's telling me that that's a terrific
response time. Um, so it's not 30

851
01:09:57,440 --> 01:10:04,560
minutes. You're 15 minutes um is what
your response is. And I mean that's

852
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,920
» on a night like tonight it would be 15
minutes guaranteed. I

853
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:11,760
» mean you could put all sorts of in
there. You could do it on a holiday

854
01:10:09,679 --> 01:10:16,239
week. You can do it on a holiday weekend
in July where volunteer firefighters may

855
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:20,640
be away somewhere vacationing with their
families. There are multiple multiple

856
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:25,760
scenarios you could throw out today. But
what we're trying to get across is the

857
01:10:22,719 --> 01:10:30,080
numbers that we crunched show that there
is an effective response force being

858
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:34,400
able to populate the area. And there's
always the one-offs. You know, uh

859
01:10:32,719 --> 01:10:38,239
Michelle, I don't know you, but I mean
maybe you were busy that night and were

860
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:42,719
out. What would have happened? Well, the
Chief would have been the first vehicle

861
01:10:40,080 --> 01:10:46,800
there from Lannard Village. So, we don't
want to get into the whatifs or the

862
01:10:44,159 --> 01:10:52,800
one-offs in terms of the exercise here.
The exercise for us was to look at the

863
01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:57,360
mapping and show what kind of people can
what kind of vehicles and people can we

864
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:59,920
get to the region effectively from the
station models that we have in front of

865
01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:04,560
us.
from what was put up earlier and are

866
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:08,640
still on the maps in front of us up here
on the cardboard maps show that there is

867
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:14,159
an effective response force that can
apply. Um I I can't deal in oneoffs

868
01:11:11,679 --> 01:11:18,480
because it it's just uh it's not
practical. The practical thing is to go

869
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:23,679
with the historic data that the chief
provided to us to say here's what has

870
01:11:21,199 --> 01:11:28,239
historically happened. And yes, there's
always going to be a one-off. I mean,

871
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:33,199
I've been a a volunteer firefighter for
25 years, and there were nights where

872
01:11:31,760 --> 01:11:37,520
five people showed up and there were
nights where nobody showed up. But we

873
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:41,040
don't dwell on the fact that there's the
nights for nobody show up. We dwell on

874
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:45,679
the fact is what's our average response
like and what what what protection are

875
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:51,120
we providing? And based on the maps that
that Jerry put up earlier and the ones

876
01:11:49,040 --> 01:11:54,480
that are up front here show that there
is still an effective response force

877
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:58,560
available for the community.
>> So so this map itself my my

878
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:02,719
understanding correct me if I get any of
this wrong. Um I did do this kind of

879
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:07,920
work for about 18 years prior to being
the CEO. So I know a little bit about uh

880
01:12:05,679 --> 01:12:12,000
but this is a 20 minute response time
map. The green areas are from your

881
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:14,159
existing station too. No, that's the
proposed

882
01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:17,760
» or very close to it.
>> Very close.

883
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:21,920
» So I would consider that to be a good
representation of where what we're

884
01:12:19,840 --> 01:12:26,960
seeing today from station two
>> and at the same time frame station 4

885
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:30,640
would cover those that other area which
very very small

886
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:35,920
» that is the 20 minute response coverage
that we're able to achieve today based

887
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:41,440
on uh numerous years of of our emergency
call data with station 4. So, what we're

888
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:47,440
talking about is between today or
between the closure of station 4 to when

889
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:52,400
the station 2C location could be built.
This is the coverage we're able to

890
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:58,640
achieve. Um, so I hope you can recognize
that we're talking about a a fairly

891
01:12:54,960 --> 01:13:02,880
small area change if you remove the pink
area that we're still covering within

892
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:06,640
the green area in that 20 minutes.
>> Where do you live? You live in a pink

893
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:11,040
area. I was going to say how would you
like living in that pink area? I would I

894
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:15,280
would be completely comfortable living
in that pink area with working smoke

895
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:21,480
alarms
in that pink area

896
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,480
» and you pink area

897
01:13:22,880 --> 01:13:28,000
would you be okay with this
>> cuz you are sitting there snickering

898
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:31,400
through the whole thing
>> out of your face

899
01:13:34,719 --> 01:13:43,840
is not accurate and that I know we got
an email, not a page, an email for

900
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:48,239
firefighters to go help fight a force
fight. So that did not go through

901
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:53,120
dispatch, did it?
>> So obviously the numbers

902
01:13:51,280 --> 01:13:58,480
» dispatch. This isn't dispatch is a
different discussion. That is not that

903
01:13:56,000 --> 01:14:02,159
» disatch that email came from.
>> It doesn't matter. So you pay close

904
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:06,880
attention to or the same. I'm just
saying look at the gain and what you're

905
01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:12,560
that little pink triangle we're talking.
I know but that's where we live son

906
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:17,040
step in and rebut like
>> and

907
01:14:14,239 --> 01:14:22,640
being saved as soon as this hall close
I'm going to impact and I'm getting my

908
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:28,000
taxes reduced because of it
>> so

909
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:32,000
they have closed everything up here
>> we have no services

910
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:36,960
» I think so this here represents the
current station two and four the

911
01:14:35,040 --> 01:14:39,960
coverage that they have in
Yes,

912
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:48,480
» I just I I'm not so sandy, but I just
don't agree with the 20 minute coverage.

913
01:14:46,159 --> 01:14:51,760
» Years and years to drive 20 minutes gets
us up almost the border.

914
01:14:50,239 --> 01:14:56,199
» It's not a 20-minute travel time. Sorry
to just

915
01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:56,199
» I'ming

916
01:14:56,480 --> 01:15:03,280
my family are not allowed to say
anything. The township does not allow

917
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:08,000
them to say
>> and it's about time everybody Excuse me.

918
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:11,280
Tracy, did you allow one of your
employees to go on Facebook and say

919
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:12,880
stuff about your business?
>> They have.

920
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:18,560
» Well,
>> that's out of my control. So,

921
01:15:16,480 --> 01:15:22,640
» you know what? They're classified as
volunteers,

922
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:27,679
not employees. The minute you guys
become full-time employees, then I'll

923
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:31,120
understand. But they're volunteers.
>> For a health and safety perspective,

924
01:15:29,120 --> 01:15:34,080
they certainly are volunteers. We are
responsible for them. We have insurance

925
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:37,600
for them.
>> And yet, they're not allowed to not

926
01:15:35,679 --> 01:15:43,360
uncommon to have a code of conduct for
for vol for volunteers or for your

927
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:47,760
employees to expect a certain um level
of respect that would come from them on

928
01:15:45,679 --> 01:15:51,840
a social media platform. Again, I
believe we're getting very far off topic

929
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:56,880
here. One thing I have like to respond
to your it was valid question but we'd

930
01:15:54,080 --> 01:16:00,640
like to explain
>> I respect the fact that you said you'd

931
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:03,840
be all the way up a certain amount of
time

932
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:07,840
» but there the border but there are
parameters that we had to use based on

933
01:16:06,239 --> 01:16:13,199
historical data
>> people is just so

934
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:16,719
» but but I could say too that this you
know because we go on the road speeds

935
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:20,960
the posted road speeds
>> some of the county roads are long and

936
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:25,679
you how we get up above the speed or
whatever. So if anything uh this this

937
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:30,239
we're airing on the side of safety which
means the performance is probably better

938
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:34,320
than what we're showing
>> be conservative works. Yeah, but that

939
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:39,120
that is what you're showing though. I
always I don't want to get regular. I

940
01:16:36,800 --> 01:16:42,640
just I just I disagree the 10 minute
shoot time. Like I know there are times

941
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:47,520
10 minutes. Yeah, absolutely. But I
would say overall I just find it hard

942
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:50,159
six seven minutes I could agree with but
10 I just but that's that's just my

943
01:16:49,679 --> 01:16:53,280
opinion.
>> Sure.

944
01:16:51,280 --> 01:16:57,120
» Sure. And that's talking about one, you
know, that's a collective data of all

945
01:16:55,199 --> 01:17:00,880
response states. I appreciate your input
but that's that's all call data that

946
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:04,000
we've had last 10 years. That's all
collective. I mean the data I provided

947
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:07,840
that the data that went with the master
fire plan it is consistent data. Uh if

948
01:17:06,239 --> 01:17:11,600
you look at the times and in both those
reports my report to council in the

949
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,800
summer everything is consistent with
with what we provided the consultants

950
01:17:13,440 --> 01:17:19,080
and what's showing is around the 10
minutes for the past 12 years.

951
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:28,480
Is there any effort to u
strive to provide the same level of

952
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:32,880
service to all residents
>> where it cannot be done?

953
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:36,440
» I think it can be done at Christ.
>> It can't be done.

954
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:49,280
» Every municipality has difficulty
serving the remote areas.

955
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:52,320
It's impossible to put a fire station on
The thing is you're concentrating the

956
01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:55,840
service in the south.
>> Yes.

957
01:17:53,440 --> 01:18:00,159
» You're you're providing service to that
cliff and valley

958
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:04,320
» with the overlap.
>> Well, when you're providing response to

959
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:07,520
those areas, which if you moved it up,
it it would push them further north.

960
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:11,040
» Yeah. But that's not what we're looking
at. We're looking we wouldn't

961
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:14,719
necessarily respond. I could have not
shown those lines below the boundary.

962
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:19,840
Those would be on mutual aid if they
need us or or anything like that.

963
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:23,440
However, what I'm showing with the line
moving up and down. It's the number of

964
01:18:21,600 --> 01:18:29,840
firefighters that we need to be able to
put out a fire safely for everybody. So,

965
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:38,080
the residents and so where is a more
single home on the country road versus

966
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:40,960
the LCBO in the in in the village? Which
one is going to be harder to put out and

967
01:18:39,679 --> 01:18:44,239
which one is going to hit per the
community the most? And I'm not being

968
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:48,400
tried to be funded by the LCBO, but
that's a prime example. This community,

969
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:52,640
the the
all along that.

970
01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:58,560
» Yeah, you suggest you suggest village
art village is really important because

971
01:18:54,880 --> 01:19:01,840
it's got 384 dwellings. Well, White Lake
have 375.

972
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:07,120
» No, it's it's not that. It's in White
Lake. And if I know these sound just

973
01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:12,640
like when they're saying smoke detectors
say, it's not firefighters.

974
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:16,239
A single family a single family home in
White Plate is going to burn and that's

975
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:20,320
all it's going to burn. maybe the woods
around it. By the time everybody gets

976
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:24,400
there and puts out the fire, uh, a
building on the main street going

977
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:28,480
through the village will catch on to the
next building, goes catch on to the next

978
01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:32,880
building. The density of population is
is much tighter and therefore higher

979
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:37,199
risk.
>> So, the province of Ontario in 2018

980
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:40,880
rolled out the community risk
assessments and now every municipality

981
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:44,960
needs to have a risk assessment and that
risk assessment takes into account a

982
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:50,719
number of things. your demographics, um
the geography, uh building stock, how

983
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:58,000
closely they're placed, um even
emergency and and hazards, um economics,

984
01:19:55,280 --> 01:20:04,880
it takes into account nine different
very uh broad profiles and from that the

985
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:09,920
fire department is and the municipality
use it as a tool to determine how to

986
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:13,760
deliver fire protection services. uh the
most important thing and the the thing

987
01:20:11,440 --> 01:20:19,280
that is mandatory from the province is
to provide public education that that is

988
01:20:16,719 --> 01:20:23,840
the management piece. The providing
suppression

989
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:29,360
is very open as far as the legislation
goes. Um but now we do have this tool.

990
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:33,440
So in the case of Lannarch Village, it
is a bright red spot on our community

991
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:38,640
risk assessment for a number of those
different conditions. And then um any of

992
01:20:36,239 --> 01:20:43,840
our hamlets and builtup areas certainly
certainly raise those um conditions. But

993
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:48,239
that's what we're trying to do here is
is really match what's the community

994
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:55,679
risk to what can we provide effectively,
efficiently um and within the means of

995
01:20:51,040 --> 01:21:01,199
the township financially. Um but it we
will like there's a trade-off. So, as we

996
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:06,719
um manage and make choices about our
three-station model, we also have the

997
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:10,960
opportunity to uh have a dedicated fire
prevention officer or an individual that

998
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:15,360
can put that focus into meeting with
people, helping people be safe in their

999
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:18,800
own homes. So, that first line that
first line of defense, um when we said

1000
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,920
that first three lines, like the three
lines of defense model, that's where

1001
01:21:20,719 --> 01:21:26,640
we're going to put the effort in. It's
it's not, you know, trying to find a a

1002
01:21:25,199 --> 01:21:29,440
fire truck to put on every corner of the
municipality because that's just not

1003
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:33,600
reasonable, not affordable, and it's not
going to be the thing that makes the

1004
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:37,199
important difference saving wise.
>> Sure.

1005
01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:42,719
» Speak to the to the
>> risk assessment

1006
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:49,679
to your question later that shows
critical infrastructure. So all of these

1007
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:54,480
stars represent a critical look at the
cluster down here. What does that

1008
01:21:51,679 --> 01:21:59,679
represent? Like that 384 dwellings.
>> No, it's it's again it's the let's just

1009
01:21:56,639 --> 01:22:01,040
see put on that. That's the public
school.

1010
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:05,760
» Okay.
>> Okay. So, there's a public school.

1011
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:08,239
There's no public school in Lake Health
Center.

1012
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:11,520
» Two schools. Health center. Center.
>> Public. Yeah. So, all of these

1013
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:15,520
represent. So, if you just look at the
map again just to kind of show you

1014
01:22:14,080 --> 01:22:19,880
because we're, you know, you were asking
how come we're paying attention to

1015
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:26,679
service station

1016
01:22:29,360 --> 01:22:35,080
» anyway just look at the map there and
get out of the way

1017
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:43,600
» if our if our services are going to
decrease though does that

1018
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:47,520
» that shows you all the critical
>> any decrease in our taxes

1019
01:22:46,080 --> 01:22:51,440
» well what's the budget increase
>> you know like if we're not going to have

1020
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:55,760
this service. Do we get a few but you
still have the service?

1021
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:59,520
» Go to Empost
everything in Tampa. So go to EMPAT and

1022
01:22:58,480 --> 01:23:04,400
get them to fight your
>> you still have a volunteer fire service.

1023
01:23:01,679 --> 01:23:08,239
You still you still call 911 and have a
response. Uh you still have public

1024
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:11,520
education.
>> Our our insurance expenses will be going

1025
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:18,000
up.
>> Uh insurance is a complicated process

1026
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:22,239
touched on it. So it's proprietary. it's
done differently by all companies. Um,

1027
01:23:20,480 --> 01:23:26,719
insurance may also be going up because
we have ice storms and been more

1028
01:23:24,639 --> 01:23:30,080
snowtorms and colder temperatures
earlier that are breaking pipes in

1029
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:34,239
December instead of January. There's a
number of reasons that insurance may

1030
01:23:32,639 --> 01:23:37,199
people invite late that couldn't get
insurance because you're supposed to

1031
01:23:35,760 --> 01:23:42,159
fire at home.
>> So, what happens then? Because I know

1032
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:47,360
mortgages on houses now require
insurance. So, if you can't get the

1033
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:52,880
insurance because of no fire coverage,
>> that's typically not the case. The the

1034
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:59,360
issue there and I live in a community uh
where I live on the Ottawa River and my

1035
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:06,560
insurance rate skyrocketed because in
2017 and 2019 the facilities in the area

1036
01:24:03,040 --> 01:24:11,440
flooded. I was fine, right? I was up
high enough, built up high enough.

1037
01:24:08,480 --> 01:24:16,320
However, I still had to argue with the
insurance carrier to say that this

1038
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:20,880
doesn't apply to me. Insurance companies
typically do a blanket a blanket

1039
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:25,360
assessment and unless you speak up for
yourself to say this doesn't apply to

1040
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:29,600
me, there's a good chance that you're
going to be affected by the insurance

1041
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:34,880
rates. Um Suzanne said things like
wildland fires and ice storms and

1042
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:39,440
floods, all these things uh will affect
your insurance rates. You have to

1043
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:44,239
monitor it yourself and make sure in
terms of this process where we talk

1044
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:49,440
about u consolidating the two stations
and the future availability. So bear

1045
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:55,360
with me. in future availability of
securing maybe larger pump tanks, more

1046
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:59,920
capacity will allow the fire chief down
the road to say to the fire underwriters

1047
01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:05,440
survey, the people that look after
insurance carriers across Canada, um, we

1048
01:25:03,440 --> 01:25:10,719
want to attempt to get a fire
underwriters certification and a

1049
01:25:08,639 --> 01:25:15,360
superior tanker shuttle accreditation
where insurance carriers come up, they

1050
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:19,199
go with the volunteer firefighters, they
assess how many gallons per minute you

1051
01:25:17,199 --> 01:25:23,840
can run over a certain period of time.
And if you meet that threshold, the

1052
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:27,920
community residents benefit because of
lower insurance rates because they know

1053
01:25:26,159 --> 01:25:32,080
your effective response force is going
to be there in time. Your water supply

1054
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:37,600
is large enough so that you can apply
for uh a a reduction in your rates. And

1055
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:43,600
most locations, at least in my
experience doing this across Ontario,

1056
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:50,000
most fire chiefs once they assume that
status of of a superior tanker shuttle

1057
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:54,960
are more than pleased to print up a
letter to say, "Here's a copy of our

1058
01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:58,560
Superior Tanker Shuttle accreditation.
Give that to your insurance carrier and

1059
01:25:56,880 --> 01:26:03,360
you should get a reduction in your home
insurance." So there's, as Suzanne said

1060
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:06,719
earlier, that's only one factor. There
are hundreds of mitigating factors and

1061
01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:11,120
we all know what it's like to deal with
insurance carriers, but certainly moving

1062
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:16,239
in this direction, try to consolidate
this information uh this uh structure

1063
01:26:14,239 --> 01:26:20,560
and looking down the road to be able to
supply larger vehicles to be able to get

1064
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:26,960
the same number of firefighters to a
location to ensure that you can accredit

1065
01:26:23,520 --> 01:26:33,280
yourself for a superior tanker show down
the road is definitely a benefit.

1066
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:37,679
So they look at those the data that the
chief has like for shootons and arrival

1067
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:42,080
time did the insurance companies have
access to that is that part of their

1068
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:45,920
rate setting.
So once you

1069
01:26:43,199 --> 01:26:49,040
» companies go to five years down roads 10
years

1070
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:54,960
» who just finished the one
>> so once once you apply to speak to an

1071
01:26:52,400 --> 01:27:00,239
insurance car like the fire underwriters
survey association and and superior once

1072
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:06,880
you walk into that what they're
interested in is your your times to get

1073
01:27:03,679 --> 01:27:12,239
your vehicles to a fire and they create
a scenario and sometimes they will say

1074
01:27:09,920 --> 01:27:17,679
uh you know on a map here Let's find a
place that is quite a distance away and

1075
01:27:15,760 --> 01:27:24,560
can you get two vehicles there within an
x amount of time and can you flow un an

1076
01:27:20,800 --> 01:27:30,960
uninrupted flow of water 200 gallons per
minute for for two hours.

1077
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:36,320
» Um then they're happy because you've
achieved that rate, right? So they they

1078
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:41,520
already know when you're asking them,
they already know that we're going to

1079
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:46,159
pick a location to test this out and
they typically look for

1080
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:49,600
locations that are tough to get to
within the prescribed time frame. So

1081
01:27:48,159 --> 01:27:54,960
they they they are aware of that
information. It's incumbent upon the

1082
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:59,440
fire chief and the fire department uh to
all organize, get together and and and

1083
01:27:57,360 --> 01:28:03,760
do that test run with 200 gallons a
minute for for two hours straight. and

1084
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:09,040
they'll put a flow meter on on the the
the hose and tell you exactly whether

1085
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:12,480
you achieved it or didn't.
>> And to your point, Dave, they could

1086
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:15,520
definitely ask for that information and
they can see the shoot times for each

1087
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:18,960
station and make an appropriate decision
based on that shoot time. And I think

1088
01:28:17,520 --> 01:28:23,520
that's kind of
>> well in theory is that if you if you

1089
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:25,760
improve the response time, then the
possibility exists you could reduce the

1090
01:28:25,120 --> 01:28:28,400
insurance
>> possibility. Yeah. Mark for sure.

1091
01:28:27,679 --> 01:28:32,320
» Yeah.
>> My question is if

1092
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:36,080
Sorry, but I've noticed that you've
taken out shoot times, you know, from

1093
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:41,360
one station to another with regards to
when you're illustrating uh travel time.

1094
01:28:39,199 --> 01:28:46,639
Um, and I understand why. I think you
take the the day factor out of it. So,

1095
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:51,040
you know, but I'm not sure that a better
look is to include shoot times and

1096
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:56,800
travel times and average response to get
to a building. Uh, let's say in this

1097
01:28:53,760 --> 01:29:02,000
area. I I don't know.
I I guess what I'm trying to ask you is

1098
01:28:58,719 --> 01:29:08,080
is is can we can we use shoot times in
the data to tell people who live in this

1099
01:29:04,880 --> 01:29:13,320
area how fast you know we get on scene
with my fire. Is it possible to do that?

1100
01:29:14,320 --> 01:29:19,520
» We can do that but
>> there's a big I guess there's a big uh

1101
01:29:17,679 --> 01:29:21,840
big difference between shoot station two
for example and station four.

1102
01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:28,239
» Yes.
>> That's right. have I mean it does that's

1103
01:29:26,239 --> 01:29:32,719
why I tell you how to make decisions I
think over long term but it does tell

1104
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:37,679
you what the situation is like today
versus what it would be like if it just

1105
01:29:35,199 --> 01:29:41,199
shoots adjustment rotation too does that
make sense what I'm saying

1106
01:29:38,639 --> 01:29:46,159
» I think it does and to expand on that I
think again this is all file data from

1107
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:50,560
previous studies with consistent data
>> right and that's what we do is build

1108
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:55,600
upon data from the past and plan for the
future and to your point of these uh

1109
01:29:53,679 --> 01:30:01,360
matrix are moving at all like they are
very status quo very consistent when we

1110
01:29:58,159 --> 01:30:04,560
look at past uh reports to current
today's reports they're they're very

1111
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:09,520
insistent
>> I guess what I mean to say is um shoot

1112
01:30:07,199 --> 01:30:15,840
time to the average resident shoot time
is a big deal because that absolutely

1113
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:21,000
does affect how quickly uh an effective
virus mask can get to an individual's

1114
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:21,000
home

1115
01:30:21,360 --> 01:30:27,120
» absolutely
>> I effective is keyword there at a very

1116
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:31,760
so on that
>> and a response of one member is awesome

1117
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:35,520
to see that familiar face but
unfortunately what can be done on a fire

1118
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:40,239
scene like we've discussed in the class
is not other than being a friendly face

1119
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:46,800
for them to be a shoulder on that's
essentially safely and by legislation

1120
01:30:44,320 --> 01:30:52,239
that's
>> there are certain standards across the

1121
01:30:49,199 --> 01:30:58,320
province and uh and it's hard to I
thought it might right so we kind of

1122
01:30:54,560 --> 01:31:04,239
measured this one against a BA 1720
which is a volunteer or housing that's

1123
01:31:00,960 --> 01:31:09,840
where the numbers come from and you know
ending number 14 the 20 is what they

1124
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:15,280
call area having jurisdiction in other
words that's what they the council has

1125
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:21,440
decided is going to be the service
delivery in your municipal then it's

1126
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:25,520
acceptable so that's why we we have the
time deducted off of the drive time so

1127
01:31:23,440 --> 01:31:29,440
that we don't kind of give you a false
sense of security that in 10 minutes

1128
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:34,480
this is where where your firefighters
are going to be. It's 10 minutes but you

1129
01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:39,760
have to deduct their tube time. So that
>> absolutely deduct shoot time takes out

1130
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:43,760
um the influence of how close
firefighters live to a hall

1131
01:31:41,840 --> 01:31:49,600
» right
and and can there be uh advances uh or

1132
01:31:47,199 --> 01:31:53,199
you know improvements?
That's where technology comes in most of

1133
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:56,880
the time, right? The I am responding,
all of those types of things because the

1134
01:31:54,719 --> 01:32:01,440
hardest thing for a volunteer, right?
Sitting in the hall, sitting in the fire

1135
01:31:58,159 --> 01:32:06,560
truck is do I wait or do I go see is the
hardest decision that you have to make.

1136
01:32:03,679 --> 01:32:10,480
But things like uh you know, are you
responding help you determine that,

1137
01:32:08,639 --> 01:32:15,040
right? And that makes it and not only
that, then people are geared up and

1138
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:19,120
ready to go, which how many minutes does
that save on the scene, right? If you

1139
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:22,719
look at any firefighter right now
tonight, if they were fighting fire and

1140
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:28,080
they went direct in their vehicle and or
they waited to put on bunker gear and on

1141
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:32,639
a ditch, you know, down a down some lane
one morning on the night like tonight,

1142
01:32:30,639 --> 01:32:37,199
how how much time does that increase,
right? But it's better that take a

1143
01:32:35,600 --> 01:32:42,960
little bit of time. Firefighters arrive
at fire halls, you get all geared up and

1144
01:32:40,239 --> 01:32:46,960
you're going, so you arrive just you
just save 10 minutes there and probably

1145
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:51,040
injury.
So anyways, thanks for bringing that up

1146
01:32:48,719 --> 01:32:55,400
because that's a valid point. We
certainly consider that.

1147
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:08,880
» Yeah. So I I mean at this point in time,
you might have a question yet sir. I can

1148
01:33:06,000 --> 01:33:13,600
get to you momentarily. Um but our game
plan was to stay in the room here. You

1149
01:33:12,159 --> 01:33:17,199
want to come up and look at the maps and
speak to us individually. We can

1150
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:21,440
certainly share some of the thoughts we
have, share your own thoughts, but

1151
01:33:19,760 --> 01:33:26,239
that's the presentation that we put
forward tonight just to ensure that we

1152
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:34,040
were showing what the effective response
force was for the for the township and

1153
01:33:29,120 --> 01:33:34,040
how it related to changes that are for

1154
01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:41,440
a couple of comments.
Well, you have your shoot time whatever

1155
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:47,520
length you want. But if you have a fire
hole closer, two firefighters with

1156
01:33:44,400 --> 01:33:51,760
smaller truck go into a fire closer, you
don't need as much water for a smaller

1157
01:33:49,360 --> 01:33:55,679
party, right?
Well, a small fire becomes big fire in a

1158
01:33:54,239 --> 01:33:59,520
very short time.
>> For sure.

1159
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:05,920
» But it doesn't mean that the small water
supply is enough for the fire. Well, I

1160
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:10,000
mean in terms and secondly, you keep
talking about bigger trucks.

1161
01:34:08,239 --> 01:34:16,400
How do these roads handle these bigger
trucks? They don't. So township fixes

1162
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:20,320
roads
trucks.

1163
01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:27,280
» No, fire trucks are heavier. Spring
spring, don't tell me that.

1164
01:34:24,560 --> 01:34:33,760
Spring girls are soft. Shoulders are
soft. Fire trucks have been lucky

1165
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:36,960
in my opinion down most of these roads
up there.

1166
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:40,159
» Yeah. I mean the message here is that we
would supply more water with larger

1167
01:34:39,679 --> 01:34:44,080
trucks.
>> Yeah. Larger truck

1168
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:48,320
» to ensure Peter's point earlier sending
two people into a fire with a small D

1169
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:51,920
and 100 gallons of water is just not
viable.

1170
01:34:50,159 --> 01:34:56,320
» You're putting Well, you did say earlier
that smaller trucks.

1171
01:34:53,440 --> 01:34:59,760
» Yeah. It it puts people at risk and for
the municipality and for the residents,

1172
01:34:58,480 --> 01:35:02,960
they don't want to go down that problem
there

1173
01:35:00,719 --> 01:35:07,360
» for sure. But I'm telling you, you fix
the roads up here. You can't get a

1174
01:35:05,280 --> 01:35:12,159
bigger truck down. You keep talking
about bigger trucks, more water.

1175
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:18,800
You can't get a bigger truck than what
we have already up. Yeah, I got chief

1176
01:35:16,320 --> 01:35:22,080
question. Have we ever had a time where
we couldn't get a fire truck up a road

1177
01:35:20,719 --> 01:35:26,880
upove road?
>> Maintain a great point there, Dave. You

1178
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:30,639
know, some of these private um roadways
um seasonal roadways, those are

1179
01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:37,120
definitely certain circumstances, right?
Um there's compil road circumstances

1180
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:41,280
that uh w how wide road and and
clearance should be. So, I think to

1181
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:45,199
point 100% data anywhere we've been with
our tanker 431, which would be our

1182
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:47,920
heaviest truck, um it's had no problems
getting into those things. Anthony, do

1183
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:50,400
you know the weight on that truck by
chance?

1184
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:53,840
» Off the top of my head.
>> 2500 US. So it'll be north of 3500 lb.

1185
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:58,960
» Yeah.
>> Yes, for sure.

1186
01:35:56,320 --> 01:36:01,960
» Similar chassis as a cloud truck, which
is

1187
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:09,360
» okay. So we're we're Suzan, thank you
for that. The only other thing I will

1188
01:36:07,760 --> 01:36:14,960
add just to the end because Suzanne said
it earlier and I certainly think in

1189
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:20,239
terms of the fire marshall of Ontario
and their three lines of defense. Just a

1190
01:36:18,480 --> 01:36:24,800
a reminder to everybody in terms of a
public education

1191
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:29,120
uh again I can share with everybody. So
the legislation is changing in January

1192
01:36:26,719 --> 01:36:35,440
of 2026 to ensure that people have
working smoke alarms and carbon monoxide

1193
01:36:32,480 --> 01:36:42,080
alarms on every level of their house.
So, just be aware of that moving into

1194
01:36:37,440 --> 01:36:46,800
2026. It's new Ontario regulations.
It's important. Carbon monoxide's a

1195
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:51,840
silent killer. I'm sure lots of people
here have appliances in in their homes

1196
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:56,159
and burn firewood and things like that.
Uh that's not the only source, but you

1197
01:36:53,760 --> 01:37:00,400
know it I just want to put a sort of a a
public message out to everybody after

1198
01:36:58,639 --> 01:37:06,080
reading the most recent bulletin from
the fire marshal about changes to the

1199
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:10,960
code in 2026 January that you have to
have a working carbon monoxide alarm on

1200
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:16,000
every level of your home. So hopefully I
can share that safety tip with you

1201
01:37:12,560 --> 01:37:19,360
moving into 2026. And as I said, we'll
we'll be up here if you want to come up

1202
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:25,119
and have a chat with us individually and
and thank you for your time and and

1203
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:28,159
passion about our discussion tonight.
>> What's going to happen with the fireh

1204
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:35,320
hall then?
>> Like once we made it a council decision,

1205
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:35,320
» what's going to happen?

1206
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:48,040
» Sorry, Tracy. It'll sit empty like our
garage has that we still get heat in and

1207
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:48,040
electricity.

1208
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:55,360
» The reason I have
all of the

1209
01:37:53,600 --> 01:37:59,440
» sure that's a consideration
consideration that we will consider sir

1210
01:37:57,360 --> 01:38:05,280
for sure. Absolutely.
>> Rachel

1211
01:38:02,320 --> 01:38:09,040
rapid fire in just more informative
questions that I was curious but I'll be

1212
01:38:06,719 --> 01:38:13,600
quick and brief here. Um just so that we
know for the mutual aid coverage up in

1213
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:17,440
White Lake. Do we know how far down that
extends?

1214
01:38:14,960 --> 01:38:21,920
» The automatic aid. So the sorry nuance,
but automatic aid is they are the first

1215
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:25,679
responder in mutual aid means all of our
friends and neighbors are coming to help

1216
01:38:23,199 --> 01:38:29,280
us out. So we have mutual aid across the
entire township whenever we need it and

1217
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:32,560
we exhaust our resources and they come
and help us.

1218
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:37,040
» It covers everything north of the
platform.

1219
01:38:34,239 --> 01:38:43,119
Just know I didn't know. Um just
wondering if there's been any lobbying

1220
01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:49,199
efforts with province or local MPP.
Um just regarding you know this issue at

1221
01:38:46,639 --> 01:38:51,520
all um whether it's long-term
sustainability and financial

1222
01:38:50,400 --> 01:38:53,679
responsibility. just wondering if
anybody

1223
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:58,239
» the Association of Municipalities of
Ontario or AMO as it gets called it has

1224
01:38:56,159 --> 01:39:03,040
a very large initiative about the cost
of delivering fire services, the cost of

1225
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:09,280
apparatus uh and they are continually
lobby lobbying on that. Um and certainly

1226
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:13,679
our our counselors and our uh MPP are
are

1227
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:16,880
uh always trying to uh put pressure on
the government about our cost of

1228
01:39:14,880 --> 01:39:21,199
infrastructure and um the cost of
replacing our aging infrastructure which

1229
01:39:18,800 --> 01:39:26,400
is one of the key drivers in this
situation. So through those means yes

1230
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:31,119
» appreciate that. I feel like we need to
just make more of a fuss for us

1231
01:39:28,639 --> 01:39:35,760
individually as a township versus you
know they can get lost in that thought.

1232
01:39:33,679 --> 01:39:39,520
Sorry, I'll keep going here. Um, does
because of the uh um important

1233
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:46,080
infrastructure that there is in the
village, is there any um automatic aid

1234
01:39:42,719 --> 01:39:50,400
agreements below the boundary of our
township? I'm just thinking I'm just

1235
01:39:48,159 --> 01:39:53,400
curious.
>> Okay,

1236
01:39:54,400 --> 01:40:00,480
» just just like I said, a lot of these
are informative. Um and then I was

1237
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:06,480
curious too because it was a really good
year for um volunteers.

1238
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:10,080
um uh that had applied. Uh was just
wondering why was there a limit to being

1239
01:40:08,320 --> 01:40:12,719
able to hire more because it is an issue
that we don't have enough of here

1240
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:17,199
apparently. So
>> yeah, absolutely. That's a great point.

1241
01:40:14,320 --> 01:40:22,960
Uh so we did a extensive hiring
campaign. Um we went through um and

1242
01:40:20,639 --> 01:40:27,199
station 4 did receive the greatest
number of applicants, but again one area

1243
01:40:25,360 --> 01:40:33,280
doesn't take away from every other area
requiring additional uh firefighters as

1244
01:40:30,400 --> 01:40:37,920
well. Um so we we were uh with eight
that is substantial. I think you look at

1245
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:42,560
you know 10 to 15,000 investment you're
over $100,000 for those eight um

1246
01:40:40,480 --> 01:40:45,520
members. So again back to the fiscal
responsibility there there is a limit of

1247
01:40:44,239 --> 01:40:49,199
how many we can take. If we could take
on 100 firefighters at once I would love

1248
01:40:47,360 --> 01:40:51,280
it but the taxpayers would not like to
bear that cost.

1249
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:54,480
» The cost of training is really really
high right now. There's again

1250
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:58,080
provinially mandated uh training
requirements that set the bar very very

1251
01:40:56,480 --> 01:41:02,320
high way higher than our traditional
volunteer models would have been. Um so

1252
01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:05,360
there is an extensive cost related to
that for

1253
01:41:03,280 --> 01:41:08,960
» according to the career models we did
continue with a list um and anybody that

1254
01:41:07,440 --> 01:41:13,679
was unsuccessful if there was an opening
that was made they were then offered a

1255
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:18,560
position as well.
>> Um

1256
01:41:15,440 --> 01:41:23,840
the GIS we know too is that based on
from the fire master plan or like recent

1257
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:28,320
like this past year's this past year
>> post current that you know um and then I

1258
01:41:26,639 --> 01:41:33,360
guess a question for the consultants
since they've across Ontario. Um what

1259
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:37,199
are the rural and remote municipalities
um or have are the situations that are

1260
01:41:35,600 --> 01:41:42,719
comparable? What have they done? Is
there any persons that we can look at be

1261
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:48,080
reassured you will be okay?
>> Good question.

1262
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:52,000
But there are
right off the top of my head I I I can't

1263
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:55,840
answer you, but I can certainly get
information to the chief and he can get

1264
01:41:53,679 --> 01:42:00,000
back to you uh from any of the fire
master plans or from any risk

1265
01:41:57,280 --> 01:42:04,960
assessments. We've across Ontario where
we've encountered like there has been

1266
01:42:02,639 --> 01:42:08,159
consolidation in other municipalities. I
off the top of my head, I'm sorry I

1267
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:12,560
can't just pull it out of my hat right
now, but we can get that answer for you.

1268
01:42:10,159 --> 01:42:17,199
» And to that point, um if you do a quick
Google search on this, it's a scary uh

1269
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:21,199
amount of volunteer firearms that are
going through this situation and it's

1270
01:42:19,199 --> 01:42:26,639
consolidation and closure are all
throughout Ontario, Canada, um United

1271
01:42:23,679 --> 01:42:30,080
States. It it is a big issue and all the
reasons that we've alluded to earlier.

1272
01:42:28,719 --> 01:42:33,520
It's not just a land pilot issue, but
it's a province

1273
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:37,760
» and a lot of it stems from leftover um
differences with amalgamation, right?

1274
01:42:35,119 --> 01:42:44,800
That we had more facilities um from
amalgamation than um can be managed by

1275
01:42:41,679 --> 01:42:48,159
the now greater u municipality. And
there needs to be a difference a change

1276
01:42:46,239 --> 01:42:52,400
in in business model and a change in how
you deliver services. And that's what

1277
01:42:50,000 --> 01:42:58,000
we're trying to implement in this is
that that broader countable landark

1278
01:42:55,119 --> 01:43:01,760
highlands um three-station model, but it
it changes from what it looked like

1279
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:07,040
pre-imalgamation.
>> I ask how many halls have been closed in

1280
01:43:04,719 --> 01:43:10,320
Manor County and how many of them have
been in the items.

1281
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:14,560
» I don't have that information. Again,
it's something we could try to find out,

1282
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:18,719
but um we don't have jurisdiction over
those other municipalities, so I'm not

1283
01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:21,520
sure how that's how they fair. And
certainly their geography is much

1284
01:43:20,320 --> 01:43:25,360
different, their risks are much
different, their taxes are different. Uh

1285
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:30,159
so a difficult thing to do comparison,
and it's one of the reasons that the um

1286
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:35,040
province is so focused on each community
having their own risk assessment is

1287
01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:39,280
because it's it's not uh apples to
apples everywhere you go. is very unique

1288
01:43:36,960 --> 01:43:44,560
to your own uh situations within your
own municipality.

1289
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:48,400
» Rachel, um just sorry to come back to
you. Thank you for those questions

1290
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:52,320
there, Robert. One of the other drivers
that that really wasn't discussed at at

1291
01:43:50,639 --> 01:43:55,679
length here, one of the other drivers
both in terms of consolidation

1292
01:43:54,000 --> 01:44:02,080
amalgamation
um is the fact that the largest uh

1293
01:43:59,760 --> 01:44:06,719
impediment to the fire service in
province of Ontario right now is

1294
01:44:04,719 --> 01:44:12,800
recruitment and retention for volunteer
firefighters. They're going through, as

1295
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:18,159
the chief said earlier, the the steps
that you have to achieve and the time

1296
01:44:15,840 --> 01:44:23,040
commitment that you have to give in
order to be certified as a volunteer

1297
01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:29,040
firefighter or a career firefighter in
the province of Ontario has now reached

1298
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:34,719
the standard that as of July 1st, 2026,
everybody has to meet. And consequently

1299
01:44:32,239 --> 01:44:39,840
um not only that but the sort of the
social demographics of our society has

1300
01:44:37,679 --> 01:44:44,960
been such that
uh volunteers are not coming forward the

1301
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:49,520
way they were in previous generations.
It's it's a you know what do I want to

1302
01:44:47,199 --> 01:44:55,040
do for me type of thing as opposed to
what can I do to serve my community. So

1303
01:44:51,679 --> 01:44:58,239
the biggest challenge for u and I'm
getting around to the the question you

1304
01:44:56,480 --> 01:45:01,760
asked earlier. The biggest challenge for
departments across the entire province

1305
01:45:00,480 --> 01:45:07,280
where they may have to look at
consolidation or amalgamation is the

1306
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:12,719
fact that they have difficulty
attracting and retaining volunteer

1307
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:18,000
firefighters general just because of the
standards that have to be met now under

1308
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:24,639
the provincial regulation which and FBA
regulations for July 1, 2026. So

1309
01:45:21,679 --> 01:45:30,080
» talk to someone did apply
like I totally understand but And but

1310
01:45:27,119 --> 01:45:34,320
it's just really hard that it seems like
um I'm I'm just very much a problem

1311
01:45:31,840 --> 01:45:38,880
solver who want to find issues and I
understand that is is is quite um

1312
01:45:36,800 --> 01:45:45,360
complicated and it seems like money just
seems to be a problem. Um and it just

1313
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:52,320
that is just not a good enough um
response good enough excuse for me the

1314
01:45:48,480 --> 01:45:55,840
grand scheme of things here um when
money is getting spent on all levels of

1315
01:45:53,760 --> 01:45:59,840
government. Exactly. And I'll revert
back to what the chief said earlier. The

1316
01:45:57,440 --> 01:46:06,239
third factor there, well, we may get a
population that's willing to step up.

1317
01:46:02,159 --> 01:46:12,400
Um, 15 or $16,000 is was the last
benchmark number we had for bringing a

1318
01:46:09,040 --> 01:46:15,199
new recruit on board per person to
outfit them, to train them to the

1319
01:46:13,920 --> 01:46:19,760
standards, to get them their
certifications and all of those things.

1320
01:46:17,600 --> 01:46:23,199
It also becomes a cost factor and you
you may have people lining up at the

1321
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:27,440
door, but do you have the resources to
put them through the course? Do you have

1322
01:46:24,719 --> 01:46:33,040
the resources to purchase uh 20 new sets
of gear? There's a lot of factors over

1323
01:46:29,840 --> 01:46:37,840
and above that. And as I said earlier,
um, yeah, well, maybe we'll take 10 this

1324
01:46:35,040 --> 01:46:43,440
year and put a list out that we can hold
10 back for next year because budgetary

1325
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:48,639
constraints, training constraints,
availability of individuals to do the

1326
01:46:45,520 --> 01:46:52,800
work, uh, is massive, you know, let
alone let alone, and I respect anybody

1327
01:46:51,199 --> 01:46:59,679
who was a volunteer firefighter in the
room, let alone the huge commitment from

1328
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:04,400
today, from 20 years ago, you know, uh,
it's it's day and night. You're you're

1329
01:47:01,600 --> 01:47:08,880
you're asking people to put in one or
two nights a week or all weekends for

1330
01:47:06,639 --> 01:47:12,800
the next six months. It's a huge
commitment and and kudos to everybody

1331
01:47:10,800 --> 01:47:16,560
who steps up to try to do it, but you
have to respect the fact that fire

1332
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:22,320
departments also have limitations for
bringing people on.

1333
01:47:19,360 --> 01:47:25,320
» Sorry. Do I have any idea about budget
considerations

1334
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:32,560
» to what
increase are we going to have like on an

1335
01:47:30,080 --> 01:47:36,400
annual basis
>> on an annual basis going forward? That

1336
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:40,719
part hasn't been calculated. The the
budget process there will be a separate

1337
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:44,960
meeting on our uh budget that is open to
the public. That's January 30th I

1338
01:47:42,800 --> 01:47:49,199
believe it is. Um that'll be in council
chambers and that's for the 2026 budget.

1339
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:54,400
» Can you give us some ideas now how much
uh these new fire halls will cost. And

1340
01:47:52,960 --> 01:47:58,080
» as the chief mentioned, we haven't
gotten to that point in the study. What

1341
01:47:56,000 --> 01:48:04,880
we're doing tonight is talking to this
community about the service provided and

1342
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:11,960
the service that will continue to be
provided with the consolidation of

1343
01:48:08,159 --> 01:48:11,960
station 4 and two

1344
01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:18,960
» and that that will be addressed
throughout the plan

1345
01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:24,080
» and there'll be there are portions of of
um the plan as far as the fleet

1346
01:48:21,040 --> 01:48:29,040
considerations in the 2026 budget but
yeah as the chief alluded to we We

1347
01:48:25,679 --> 01:48:33,280
currently don't have the uh multi-year
uh capital planning because we are in

1348
01:48:30,960 --> 01:48:36,480
the middle of completing facility review
and asset management plan, but it's

1349
01:48:35,119 --> 01:48:39,840
coming. We will get to the point of
having that. I just I do not have that

1350
01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:42,000
on me tonight and I can't say that
anybody in our building has that for you

1351
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:46,159
today.
>> Nobody has any idea.

1352
01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:49,440
» Asset management planning is open. So as
residents would like to see an increase

1353
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:53,440
in service level, that is your time to
speak to council a

1354
01:48:51,360 --> 01:48:58,080
» and see an increase in service. what
does that cost look like and where is

1355
01:48:55,280 --> 01:49:03,040
Land Island willing to accept um an
increase with any increase comes cost.

1356
01:49:00,880 --> 01:49:06,560
So asset management plan you seem like
you're very invested in this. I think

1357
01:49:04,639 --> 01:49:10,719
you should jump on board and really take
part in asset management planning and

1358
01:49:08,320 --> 01:49:14,560
sit in on council discussions because
it's your time. It's your guys money and

1359
01:49:12,800 --> 01:49:19,600
this is a very important plan for you
guys to be a part of and voice your

1360
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:22,480
concerns. If you want more or better
that's asset management plan is a

1361
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:27,600
perfect opportunity to have that done.
Our shouldn't be too bad because it's

1362
01:49:24,480 --> 01:49:32,719
been quadrupled and now we have the
roads created twice a year. We have

1363
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:34,480
nobody left working up here and now at
all.

1364
01:49:33,119 --> 01:49:38,639
» That's a great point.
>> Everything in our township is completely

1365
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:42,000
gone. Nothing long.
>> And that's a great great point.

1366
01:49:39,679 --> 01:49:44,719
» And our taxes are quadruple of what they
were.

1367
01:49:42,239 --> 01:49:48,880
» Yeah. So raise that concern when you see
an increase in service. Why do you pay

1368
01:49:46,159 --> 01:49:54,000
taxes on something? Sorry.
>> Why do you pay taxes on something that

1369
01:49:51,119 --> 01:49:57,840
you own? unmaintained road like fire
services or anything and they won't go

1370
01:49:55,760 --> 01:50:02,239
down any
>> I mean I think that's a whole another

1371
01:49:59,840 --> 01:50:07,440
discussion that's
province countywide

1372
01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:12,080
that we're not allowed to go down camp
road if there's a fire there now because

1373
01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:17,840
the roads are just screwed now because
they haven't done anything with them

1374
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:22,480
» discussions on seasonally maintained
road

1375
01:50:18,239 --> 01:50:25,520
» put up a 6C sign so they name the music
that's

1376
01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:28,520
» for sure. I I appreciate that. Thank you
very

1377
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:36,239
» I know it's an emotional topic. I I do
really sincerely thank you for coming

1378
01:50:32,960 --> 01:50:39,520
tonight being so engaged. Uh I I realize
that this is important and it's

1379
01:50:37,760 --> 01:50:43,280
important to the township is important
to this community. Uh and the township

1380
01:50:41,760 --> 01:50:48,119
does care about this community. I know
that that might you might scoff at that

1381
01:50:48,159 --> 01:50:55,600
moment. I I say that sincerely and we
will

1382
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:58,800
» so big on the seventh line for like two
or three weeks

1383
01:50:57,679 --> 01:51:04,400
that doesn't take away
>> knew about it until the fire trucks had

1384
01:51:01,199 --> 01:51:08,880
to go around it and then they took no oh
we better close that in.

1385
01:51:06,239 --> 01:51:13,520
» So just so you know there is a continued
and there will be a continued response

1386
01:51:10,960 --> 01:51:17,360
to this community. We are continuing to
have a fire department that provides

1387
01:51:14,960 --> 01:51:22,320
emergency response, that provides public
safety and education. Uh, and I also

1388
01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:28,080
want to recognize that our volunteers
are are they're our most essential asset

1389
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:31,679
in our fire department. And uh, I
recognize that that is true here in

1390
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:36,639
station 4. It's true in all of our
stations. So, thank you to those who are

1391
01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:41,280
volunteers and to everyone who gives
their time and dedication. It it is very

1392
01:51:38,480 --> 01:51:46,880
important to our township. Um and and we
are concerned about being being careful

1393
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:50,480
and responsible with your tax dollars,
which is why we want to come up with an

1394
01:51:48,639 --> 01:51:54,880
effective plan for the future that is
going to make responsible decisions.

1395
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:59,920
That also means hard decisions, which is
which is what we're facing right now,

1396
01:51:57,280 --> 01:52:03,520
but they can be both. I'd like numbers
during this call before all this and the

1397
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:07,679
numbers before
>> the numbers of staff or the numbers of

1398
01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:12,719
» the ones we had before and then they
never they've never even hired a soul

1399
01:52:10,400 --> 01:52:18,239
since the numbers are down. Oh, you
can't say the fire anymore.

1400
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:21,920
So since 2019 when they come up with
this plan they just no

1401
01:52:20,639 --> 01:52:27,599
» I think there's been a lot that changed
in the world since 2019. I I can't

1402
01:52:24,639 --> 01:52:29,840
specifically point to that that is, you
know, what the what the cause directly

1403
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:34,719
of that is.
>> You can't well that many years that they

1404
01:52:32,719 --> 01:52:38,000
could have put one or two in every year
and our numbers would have filled up.

1405
01:52:36,400 --> 01:52:40,960
There was lots of people I know that put
in and they were just throwing in the

1406
01:52:39,599 --> 01:52:46,080
garbage. Nobody never
>> in fairness that was a different fire.

1407
01:52:44,159 --> 01:52:49,199
» I'm not saying it still. I'm saying what
the township

1408
01:52:47,360 --> 01:52:51,040
» I'm saying Dave what the township has
done.

1409
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:54,960
» Okay.
>> That's what I'm saying. I did say it's

1410
01:52:52,560 --> 01:53:00,239
still I said it's the what the tail ship
has done since they started this ship.

1411
01:52:58,480 --> 01:53:04,800
» That's what they've done.
>> The numbers down

1412
01:53:02,560 --> 01:53:06,960
the numbers are now the numbers look
really good.

1413
01:53:05,440 --> 01:53:09,679
» There's a big cultural piece. I'll
recognize that.

1414
01:53:07,760 --> 01:53:13,840
» I think we've heard your concerns. I
appreciate if that happened in the past.

1415
01:53:11,599 --> 01:53:17,119
That is not the way professional conduct
should be done and I can assure you that

1416
01:53:15,520 --> 01:53:19,920
is not being done now with myself as a
fire chief.

1417
01:53:17,599 --> 01:53:22,239
» Well, Jeff, how long have you been in as
fire chief? Please,

1418
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:26,639
» Stephen.
>> So, in the two Yeah. Sorry, I called you

1419
01:53:24,480 --> 01:53:32,480
your dad's name, Stephen. So, in the two
years you've been chief,

1420
01:53:29,599 --> 01:53:37,440
» our numbers didn't drop in two years.
So, maybe you should do a wee bit more

1421
01:53:34,480 --> 01:53:42,960
research because at prime time in this
hall, we had like 20 volunteers every

1422
01:53:40,239 --> 01:53:47,599
single I I've been for those of you who
don't know me, I grew up fire service

1423
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:52,239
highs. I've been around this place for
many, many years and a proud member

1424
01:53:49,679 --> 01:53:55,280
since I was 16 years old. Um, I I have
seen the highs and the lows of every

1425
01:53:53,599 --> 01:53:58,880
single station. Every single station has
went through this. It is a change that

1426
01:53:57,119 --> 01:54:04,320
every station has faced. Station one has
went from high numbers of 35 down to 10.

1427
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:08,320
Station two has done the exact same
thing. Every station has been through

1428
01:54:05,679 --> 01:54:13,199
that. That's not liner. That is a
country provincewide issue that's going

1429
01:54:11,119 --> 01:54:18,719
on. It it's everywhere. The times have
changed and I I respect how upset you

1430
01:54:16,320 --> 01:54:22,560
guys are about this, but I want you to
know that

1431
01:54:20,480 --> 01:54:27,199
» times have changed and that's not what's
occurring and it's a very transparent.

1432
01:54:24,639 --> 01:54:31,199
You can come in and look in my inbox of
who applied last year, how the process

1433
01:54:29,360 --> 01:54:33,840
works. It's all sorted. I I would be
more than happy, Tracy, to sit down for

1434
01:54:32,639 --> 01:54:36,400
an hour in my office and have a
discussion.

1435
01:54:34,239 --> 01:54:39,199
» I'm not saying it was you. I'd say
they've done this since 2019. Our

1436
01:54:38,159 --> 01:54:42,719
numbers went down there. They've never
hired any

1437
01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:45,679
I know there's people
>> ready come on we will sit down and have

1438
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:48,480
a discussion both of you I welcome you
to my office we'll sit down and go

1439
01:54:46,960 --> 01:54:52,480
through
our discussion to go with you in your

1440
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:56,560
office
that

1441
01:54:54,639 --> 01:55:01,679
» he has done nothing but bad this
township right in front of my family

1442
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:06,000
in an ambulance
>> I think that's he bad

1443
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:09,840
» this is in the forum for a personal
issue

1444
01:55:07,520 --> 01:55:12,320
in my office we have the stuff we have
what have you

1445
01:55:13,280 --> 01:55:18,560
What have you done?
>> My my response Tracy is that is HR very

1446
01:55:17,199 --> 01:55:21,840
confidential things. We do not talk to
that open forum. You do not know if

1447
01:55:20,320 --> 01:55:28,320
anything has been addressed or not.
Okay. There's been conversation that

1448
01:55:25,599 --> 01:55:32,080
» I think in the time of place I' ask you
that we end that conversation. Please

1449
01:55:30,800 --> 01:55:34,639
» I have no idea what you're talking
about.

1450
01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:39,040
» Can I just say one thing?
>> Absolutely. when you're talking about

1451
01:55:36,239 --> 01:55:43,960
volunteer firefighters and the change in
their demographics in society and

1452
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:43,960
everything.

1453
01:55:44,159 --> 01:55:51,840
» I applaud every single volunteer
firefighter and every volunteer, but

1454
01:55:48,560 --> 01:56:01,280
it's a social thing. People don't
volunteer the way they did 25 or 30

1455
01:55:56,159 --> 01:56:10,080
years ago. people in their 20s, 30s, 40s
very seldom volunteer for anything. So I

1456
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:16,960
mean whether it's a a social event, you
know, like our country was

1457
01:56:13,920 --> 01:56:25,760
grew on volunteers and people helping
people. the whole society has changed

1458
01:56:21,280 --> 01:56:31,599
and somebody said it it's the me society
and it's you know you're at a distance

1459
01:56:28,639 --> 01:56:36,000
from everybody.
So

1460
01:56:32,480 --> 01:56:44,400
» yeah it's I believe that it's a problem
to to recruit and return and and I w and

1461
01:56:40,639 --> 01:56:47,199
I applaud every single volunteer
>> and thank you very much for that

1462
01:56:45,520 --> 01:56:51,520
comment. That's well received. Thank
you. But uh anyways, thank you very

1463
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:54,800
much.
>> Thank you. I I guess if anybody wants to

1464
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:59,320
come and chat with us, we're here for a
little bit and thank you for your time.