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I'd like to call to order this meeting of the Lancaster County Planning Commission on August 18, 2026, with the clerk, please call roll.

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Richard Crandell.

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Lynette Hansen.

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Judy and a Tinkuinberg.

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Sheila Hansen.

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Michelle Richards.

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Francis Wu.

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Thank you.

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With a clerk, please make a note in the record that a quorum of the planning commission is present.

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Public notice of the meeting, including the meeting agenda, has been posed to the required length of time.

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in the lobby of the county administration building and on the county website.

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The news media was notified of the meeting place in time.

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Welcome everyone to the Lancaster County Planning Commission meeting.

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Please make sure that all of your electronic devices are turned off and silenced.

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And please abide by the poster rules of the meeting.

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Please remove any hats.

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No profanity, please be respectful to the other people and don't interrupt them.

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Fine up sheeps were provided at the entrance of the room if you haven't already

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Please add your name to the list of the relevant item agenda, and you will be called up to speak at the appropriate time

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So questions that everyone will please rise for the pledge of allegiance and an opening prayer

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands

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one nation

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under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Dear Heavenly Father, we come to you today asking for your guidance, wisdom and support

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as we begin this meeting. Help us to engage in meaningful discussions that nurture the

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bonds of this community. Fill us with your grace Lord God as we make decisions that affect

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all of the residents of Lancaster County and continue to remind us that all we do here

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day, all that we accomplished is in the pursuit of the glory of your greater life and for

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this and the service of humanity.

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For all these things, we ask in your name, amen.

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So, commissioners, before you have the agenda for tonight's meeting, do I hear a motion?

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I'd like to make a motion to move the UDO draft item to the end of the meeting.

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That's second.

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So we have a motion to accept the meeting agenda,

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except for moving items 6A, which is for the voting on the unified development

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the ordinance draft to the end of the agenda.

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So we have a motion and we have a second.

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Are you seeing all these fine people

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won't want to sit through all of this

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before we get to our other action items?

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I thought it was the polite thing to do is

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hair after.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you very much.

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All right.

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Let's see where Anna, I got too much going on tonight.

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Commissioner, can we have a show of hands and favor of

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She modified agenda as motioned and seconded.

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Yes, Miss Maura, you can ready to say something, I could tell.

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The motion made by you was just to modify the agenda.

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Would you like to add the approval as well?

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Oh, yes, I'm sorry.

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She's correct.

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Yes, so motion to approve the modified agenda order.

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And a second?

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Yes.

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Second, from Wilson, now, commissioners,

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can a please have a show with hands, a favor of the modified agenda?

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The next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes for the July 21, 2021-26 regular meeting.

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Do I have a motion?

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Make a motion to approve.

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Do I have a second?

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I'll second up.

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Do we have any questions or comments?

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All right.

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So we have a motion to accept as written the minutes from the July 21, 2021-26 regular meeting.

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show hands in favor. Motion passes. Was I at that meeting?

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It doesn't matter whether you're there or not. Remember we changed our rules.

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You can't go but still won't. Okay. So in case I'm going to.

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Motion passes five to zero with one abstaining.

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Next item on the agenda is the approval of the minutes from the August 6th,

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2026 workshop. Do I have a motion?

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I have a second.

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Any questions or concerns?

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All right, so can I have a show of hands and favor for accepting the

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minutes of the August 6th, 2026 workshop minutes as presented.

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Motion passes 6 to 0.

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Thank you.

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Next item on the agenda is citizens' comments.

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I wasn't given anything extra and I'm sitting here looking at and it appears that no one has signed up under general citizens comments so we will consider ourselves out of what's today.

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We will consider ourselves out of, oops, citizens' comments, since no one signed up to speak.

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So, next item on the agenda is public hearing items for recommendations to Council.

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We will start with item 6B, CU-2026-1423, McDonald.

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Greetings, commissioners. Before you, you have, see you, 2026, 1423, McDonald.

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Located

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that, 1949 and 1951, great falls. Highway, the applicant is Gary Pagazzi. The

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intention here is to seek a conditional use permit to operate a restaurant,

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bar and grill. It's currently located on a general business zoning district in the future land

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use is growth area and you can see the location of the parcel in the illustration on your

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screen.

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The surrounding transitional districts are GB, MH and MDR and to the left there you see a

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photo of the parcel itself, the application procedures per chapter 5 have been met and additional

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UDO provisions. The chapter 9 have been communicated and will be reviewed if the applicant

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continues through the development process. Both of these reports should be in your packets.

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The TRC has vetted, this particular case, in during initial site assessments, with approval

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contingent upon this PC meeting, as well as all other applicant, UDO conformities being

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that Lexi County Ward in sewer district had no review comments due to all the utilities

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already being in place and to that end staff recommends approval of this application.

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Do you have any questions and I do have the applicant here if you have any further questions

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that you would like to ask a

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question?

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Yes ma'am.

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I was noticing that this is directly across the Great Falls Highway from the new Jehovah's

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Witness Kingdom Hall.

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Does it meet the distance requirement?

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I mean, I don't, is there a special requirement if they're going to put in?

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If they're going to have a bar and they're restaurant, it has to be a certain distance

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from a place of worship.

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I tried to see if that was in the UDA.

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I couldn't find it.

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Oh, it's this now.

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Okay.

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I just, I wasn't sure so I was just asking, yes, ma'am.

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Okay.

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All right.

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Thank you.

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I guess that was the only thing that was the only question that I had, is anyone else having

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any other questions?

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For Cory, if we asked to speak to the applicant.

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So if thank you, Cory.

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We welcome to you.

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If the applicant was here, if you would like to get up and speak please, state your name and address

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for the record, please.

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You're an active state, 1-1-1-2 Highway 9 by Southwest.

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In regards to your question about that, I've actually already obtained the

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the ABC license and some contingency for a nine month holdover, that was one of our major questions

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also.

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So, and that's, and the building will be a complete remodel that we're still working with

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the county building department.

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So, which one do you want into the long one?

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It used to be, it's up to a hundred-partish opt-a-lifed one, yeah, we're going to raise it.

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I've lived here 30 years, so I'm into the building.

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Exactly.

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We're going to raise the roof and do everything.

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Okay.

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Bring it up.

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Like raise the roof and have a party, or no, I'm not going to joke.

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Are you going to have any outdoor seating?

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No, ma'am, not at this time, space is kind of limiting us what we can do.

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Yeah, that was one of the concerns with having residential right behind.

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Even though you do have a nice easement there, there were some trees and stuff.

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You do have some houses right behind there.

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So if you had outdoor seating, I know how I am if I'm on the outdoor seating volume control.

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is not as good as it is on the inside of the restaurant.

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Anyway, any other questions for the applicant?

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I do.

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Yes, sir.

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What will the operating hours be?

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A lot will that depend upon the tenant, man, and meeting county restrictions.

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Where are the owner of the property and just will lease it to a restaurant to operate?

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OK, I have a concern with that with a neighborhood being across the street and all MDR behind them.

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I would have a real concern as to what the operating hours would be.

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Would that not be governed by the business license?

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I think it could also be governed by us as to conditions.

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Yes, yes.

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If this is hours of operation and issuing a conditional use permit for the site, the planning commission shall consider the surroundings and restrict the hours operation of the business if they deemed as warranted.

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I can tell you, I just know that I know the area, the MDR on the other side, is if the noise gets from here to over there,

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yeah, you know, it's really really far away and then the MDR behind it, there aren't any houses real close to it.

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I pulled this up on the GIS and looked at it just because of concerns like that.

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Are there houses in this blue shade of area already?

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What's the blue shade of area? Sorry, I'm looking at the difference.

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Of course, it's MDR right behind the.

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Yeah, um, actually a lot of that directly behind it is just vacant with a whole bunch of cars parked in it and then there's used to be a junkyard.

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Yeah, and then you've got to go to those ones that look at the three lots that are that go up to the other street.

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Right. Yeah, there's like one house on each of those.

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You can see that's a pretty good distance and you've got that stance of woods in between it.

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There's already a pretty good natural buffered buffered buffered there.

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Okay.

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Two of those houses are actually gone.

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Okay.

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So, yeah, there's no, there's not a whole lot of houses really close to it.

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And then of course, it almost looks like the golf course, but it can't be the golf course.

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Yeah, because I'm back.

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Number, what would that be? 15, 16.

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Okay.

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It's many times I've been to the golf course, I've never been to the church.

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Can you come out 10, 11?

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Yep.

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12, 13.

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Good to know.

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Well, any other questions or concerns?

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All right.

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Thank you, sir.

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We will now consider ourselves into public hearing.

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We have, make sure, no, no, no, no, no, no.

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to the back of the list. We have no one signed up to speak, so we will consider ourselves out

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public hearing.

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It's about to say we have people, but it's the wrong one.

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So the missioners, we have before us case number CU-2026-1423 the McDonald track do I hear a motion

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to approve the project, because as it's been presented as it meets all the qualifications for a conditional use permit in this area.

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I said all the right legal things, right?

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I'll make a motion to approve.

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So have a second. Okay. Is there any discussion?

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Starting the buffering, you said there is already relatively a good natural buffer.

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Is there a buffer all the way around, though?

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It's on on all the sides that but up against where there's housing on that side of the road.

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And it's a pretty good wide stance of trees. I mean if you have a good on there and look at, you can see that big stance of trees behind it.

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Okay, that's all I was, that's what we have in our things. I was asking if there was a complete buffer.

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Yes.

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Up against all of the housing ports. Yes.

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All right. So, any other discussions?

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All right, so we have before us, CU2026, 1423, McDonald, with a motion to, with a motion

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to approve.

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I've got them at the magic piece of the paper.

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With a motion to approve, because it does meet the requirements for the conditional use in this zone.

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Can we have a roll call vote please?

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Richard Krandell?

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Or?

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Lynette Henson?

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Or?

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Do you need a tinkling bird?

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Sheila Henson?

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Or?

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Princess Lou?

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Michelle Richardson?

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Or?

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So, this motion passes about four to zero,

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and it will be referred

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at the County Council for final decision and the applicant you will be notified of the time

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in the place.

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I am on the agenda is RZ-2026-14-41-justice tree service.

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Okay, as Commissioner Richards just stated before you have RZ-2026-1441-justice tree

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service at 9546, Olin, Yorburne, Robe, the owners are just in Brandon and Greg

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Group, and they are requesting to reason to allow for the regional business use type

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that's outlined in our UDO use chart.

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It's currently zone low density residential, and they're proposing a regional business in

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future land use designated as growth area in a illustration of the parcel itself as pictured

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on the screen.

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Here are some site photos of the entrance that will be used to access

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the parcel and is an aerial view of the parcel itself.

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The surrounding transitional districts

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are LDR, and it's mainly surrounded by PDD, and the request aligns with the comprehensive

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plan objective PA 1.1, as well as it has met all of the application, UDO provisions,

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detailed and chapter 9, and those are detailed in your staff report.

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staff recommends approval of this application. Do you have any questions?

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Half at the moment.

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Thank you.

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Oh, I'm sorry. The applicant is here as well.

239
00:22:04,020 --> 00:22:07,620
I'll recognize them because they were just here. What two meetings ago?

240
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:08,760
Yes.

241
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,840
All right, so you'd like to come up. Thank you, Corey.

242
00:22:12,380 --> 00:22:12,660
You welcome.

243
00:22:12,860 --> 00:22:14,380
It's state your name and address for the record.

244
00:22:15,940 --> 00:22:17,300
Yeah, when this came up, I was like,

245
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,040
Is it really just do this?

246
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:20,320
Looking familiar, right?

247
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,500
My name is Brandon Rupert,

248
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,640
8821, he's in a Ridge Road,

249
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,540
Charlotte, 28277.

250
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,720
My name is Justin Rupert, address 8821,

251
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,380
Houston Ridge Road, Charlotte,

252
00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:35,620
28277.

253
00:22:37,170 --> 00:22:38,190
Property answer any questions?

254
00:22:38,890 --> 00:22:41,670
Well, I was just like, what do you plan on doing with property?

255
00:22:42,670 --> 00:22:44,630
Same intentions as last property.

256
00:22:44,630 --> 00:22:51,530
Unfortunately, that seller withdrew his application, so that kind of sparked us, we'll over

257
00:22:51,530 --> 00:22:52,210
to this one instead.

258
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:59,130
So the attention to our just going to build a garage and for outdoor storage for our trucks

259
00:22:59,130 --> 00:22:59,810
and equipment.

260
00:23:01,510 --> 00:23:02,810
Missioners, shall I have any questions?

261
00:23:05,650 --> 00:23:05,910
Go ahead.

262
00:23:07,710 --> 00:23:08,150
Okay.

263
00:23:08,410 --> 00:23:09,570
So this is in my district.

264
00:23:09,770 --> 00:23:14,970
I do have a lot of questions, I'm not sure if they're best suited for you or for staff.

265
00:23:16,150 --> 00:23:22,790
So I guess my biggest question is why are we jumping all the way to regional business?

266
00:23:24,950 --> 00:23:27,430
So that was recommended to us.

267
00:23:28,570 --> 00:23:34,390
So I know general business and regional business were kind of tossed around and I think

268
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:40,990
the suggestion wasn't to go with regional business because of that outdoor storage usage for

269
00:23:40,990 --> 00:23:41,650
it.

270
00:23:42,050 --> 00:23:43,410
That was going to be better fit.

271
00:23:43,410 --> 00:23:53,550
Because I think the puzzle piece was the maintenance because if we need to like change the oil on a couple of our trucks, I think that fell under regional business versus general business.

272
00:23:54,290 --> 00:23:57,550
So that was kind of the back and forth on that.

273
00:23:58,950 --> 00:23:59,470
Okay.

274
00:24:00,990 --> 00:24:02,090
I do have great concern.

275
00:24:02,550 --> 00:24:12,350
I know we heard your proposal before and under the previous conditions of the site.

276
00:24:12,350 --> 00:24:14,050
You know, we voted for it.

277
00:24:14,250 --> 00:24:16,310
I'm having great difficulty with this,

278
00:24:16,450 --> 00:24:17,630
because with rezoning's,

279
00:24:17,710 --> 00:24:20,090
we're forever changing the zoning of that property.

280
00:24:20,350 --> 00:24:23,190
So should whatever reason you decide to relocate,

281
00:24:23,310 --> 00:24:24,430
it's forever zone that.

282
00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:27,150
So any of the uses that fall under regional business

283
00:24:27,150 --> 00:24:29,430
would then be by right on this site,

284
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:32,690
which is greatly of great concern,

285
00:24:33,050 --> 00:24:34,970
considering the location of this site,

286
00:24:35,410 --> 00:24:37,330
being completely surrounded by residential.

287
00:24:37,810 --> 00:24:40,110
If you've, as I'm sure you've driven back there,

288
00:24:40,110 --> 00:24:47,130
it's not on a main thoroughfare which per the definition of regional business is a requirement

289
00:24:47,130 --> 00:24:54,050
that it should be and then through what it is it's to attract regional business and I'm just

290
00:24:54,050 --> 00:25:00,950
I'm struggling with the definition of how that's applicable here. I understand that it kind of meets

291
00:25:00,950 --> 00:25:09,150
the needs but it doesn't in my opinion based on the location of of this site so I'm really struggling

292
00:25:09,150 --> 00:25:15,270
with what to do because I love what you all are asking to do but I don't love the location

293
00:25:15,270 --> 00:25:22,810
and the zoning of the site. I don't think that it makes sense. I don't think it goes with

294
00:25:22,810 --> 00:25:30,050
the character of the surrounding the surroundings with it. So I'm struggling with this one in all

295
00:25:30,050 --> 00:25:36,650
in all honesty. Yeah, I know I totally understand it's a quick comment on that part of it.

296
00:25:36,650 --> 00:25:40,070
almost the entire southern part of that parcel.

297
00:25:40,250 --> 00:25:42,610
There's like 25 acres of floodplain,

298
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:46,270
which in my opinion is a pretty natural barrier

299
00:25:47,030 --> 00:25:51,950
from the parcel and LDR on the south side.

300
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:55,110
And we don't have any plans on developing.

301
00:25:55,910 --> 00:25:59,610
I don't think we can, even if we wanted to, on floodplain.

302
00:26:01,470 --> 00:26:04,230
So, I mean, our garage is going to be on the very,

303
00:26:04,230 --> 00:26:05,970
like, top and the other side of it.

304
00:26:06,930 --> 00:26:15,190
So, and in the parcel above it is owned by Duke Power, so, yeah, just a couple, you know,

305
00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:16,790
thought someone had threw off there.

306
00:26:18,810 --> 00:26:23,650
And we also don't plan on, you know, selling anytime soon, like this, you know, is intended

307
00:26:23,650 --> 00:26:26,470
to be in our family forever, if again.

308
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:32,840
Okay.

309
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:34,860
I had a quick question.

310
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,500
You can see that the entrance road is very small.

311
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,640
You're going to have to make some improvements to that to get in and out, because that looks

312
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:47,200
like a trail that I rode. Yeah, yeah, we spoke with the public works briefly about that little

313
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:52,080
because like it's paid all the way to like, you know, 10 feet and then it cuts out the gravel.

314
00:26:53,660 --> 00:26:54,540
So yeah.

315
00:26:54,540 --> 00:26:59,480
I meant, but I'm going to have to improve it like on to your property aren't you more than likely. Yeah.

316
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,140
Yeah, look like there were two small ponds and there's a some existing building down in there.

317
00:27:04,260 --> 00:27:09,880
Yeah, there's like a old residential house on there that is not usable. So I would have to be

318
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:33,480
off down obviously. I'm just asking general question. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I did see that a vast majority of it is in in that can you even get to that little arm over there to the side, because it looks like you just got a little teeny tiny strip that you can go around a little piece. Yeah, and there's a huge cliff. So like it's we can't even access that if you wanted to either way.

319
00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:40,170
So it's really the only usable part is kind of at the top like the 20 acres or so at the top.

320
00:27:40,170 --> 00:27:40,410
Yeah.

321
00:27:41,130 --> 00:27:42,510
Is that little spot up there?

322
00:27:44,010 --> 00:27:44,890
Any other questions?

323
00:27:45,450 --> 00:27:45,950
Any other questions?

324
00:27:47,070 --> 00:27:47,830
Everybody's not so quiet.

325
00:27:47,930 --> 00:27:54,090
I don't know if it's a question or more than an observation that I understand that

326
00:27:54,090 --> 00:27:59,370
you hope to have this in your family or your plan is to have it in your family, but plans.

327
00:27:59,370 --> 00:27:59,830
Change.

328
00:27:59,830 --> 00:28:00,730
And always change.

329
00:28:02,330 --> 00:28:10,130
And especially the panhandle part of the county is suffering from decisions that were

330
00:28:10,130 --> 00:28:17,030
twenty years ago, it seemed like a good idea at the time. If something were to happen that

331
00:28:17,030 --> 00:28:24,270
you had to sell this, like as Commissioner Tinkler said, the regional business stays, and

332
00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:26,730
someone could put in

333
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:35,320
some undesirable business around all this LDR, and I understand that some

334
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,060
of it's not usable and there's the buffer in all this, but just on all the other sides,

335
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:42,220
it

336
00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:49,240
is may seem very whimsical, but you're reading field daisy and metal ridge and twin leaf

337
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:57,660
and all this very home-style, even names and so forth and then smack dab in the middle

338
00:28:57,660 --> 00:29:03,140
regional business and as long as I've been on the planning commission, we're always told

339
00:29:03,140 --> 00:29:10,800
to look around what's around an area and I'm struggling too with going all the way to regional

340
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:16,540
business. And I'll be honest, I would have a problem with general business too, surrounded

341
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:26,600
by LDR. And I think that it's time for us to really take people into account who have to

342
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:32,220
live with our decisions. That I think what you're wanting to do is a great thing. But I also

343
00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:37,040
feel for all the people who purchases and never thought they'd have to deal with something

344
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,240
like that, or what it could be.

345
00:29:39,420 --> 00:29:42,400
And so much what you're doing, but what it could be,

346
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,620
they never thought that there was going to be a business

347
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:48,380
among their homes.

348
00:29:51,230 --> 00:29:53,930
So that's where my struggle is also.

349
00:29:55,070 --> 00:29:58,590
It makes us ask the question of if spot zoning applies,

350
00:29:58,670 --> 00:29:59,770
because it's not just,

351
00:29:59,770 --> 00:29:59,970
.

352
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:13,860
Is there the same adjacent zoning? It's are we making a decision to the benefit of one to the detriment of those around it? That's the second part of spot zoning and I can't answer yes to that.

353
00:30:17,710 --> 00:30:28,710
And I'm sitting here looking at the use charts. If you do, if you were to go on the general business, it does limit some of the uses.

354
00:30:29,530 --> 00:30:51,210
It has more limit on the uses than the regional business does, and it says you can do the vehicle services you would just have to get a conditional use requirements that if it were general business instead of regional business, you get the conditional use, then if anybody wanted to use it for anything else, they would have to come back.

355
00:30:51,210 --> 00:30:58,070
for a lot of these more questionable next to residential stuff, there's less of them are

356
00:30:58,630 --> 00:31:03,210
permitted by right and there's more conditional uses in there. I just kind of

357
00:31:03,210 --> 00:31:07,450
stroll in through the thing really, really quickly. It's one of those things.

358
00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:12,550
I said, I'm in complete agreement with them. I really like what you want to do here.

359
00:31:13,170 --> 00:31:18,230
I think the concept, I think, is a good piece of property. I'm still having a hard time

360
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:25,210
on the regional business, that is just such a big jump, but I did, I look through and I'm like,

361
00:31:25,230 --> 00:31:32,850
you, you're kind of limited on what you can do to do what you want to do on that piece of property.

362
00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:36,650
You either have to go general business or regional business to do that.

363
00:31:37,550 --> 00:31:42,970
I will throw out there, though, that, that's the name of that road.

364
00:31:43,410 --> 00:31:46,350
Was it you, something, there's a name in front of it.

365
00:31:47,670 --> 00:32:08,310
That is such a small road for them for anybody to develop that much of anything else, that whole road would have to be redeveloped, and that's probably part of your borrower road above it to get in there, so that's going to be a deterrent for a lot of other types of uses for this property in the future.

366
00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:10,810
It just depends how much money someone has.

367
00:32:13,460 --> 00:32:15,320
Well, I mean, most of it's a public road,

368
00:32:15,580 --> 00:32:18,260
so it's correct, except for my little bit.

369
00:32:18,660 --> 00:32:18,740
Yes.

370
00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:20,800
This may be better as for staff, but why did we go

371
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:23,060
from general business to regional business?

372
00:32:31,460 --> 00:32:34,940
Well, it was suggested because general business

373
00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:39,640
is mainly suited in our opinion for corridors.

374
00:32:40,520 --> 00:33:04,280
So, this scene fitting and to add to that point while I was out there, placing signs, I had the liberty of speaking with the owners of this land because a lot of its family land and they didn't seem to have a problem with it at all and to your point about selling in the future.

375
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:14,000
They stressed to me that it was very, very important about that property being sentimental,

376
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:19,580
and they wanted to keep it in the family for generations to come.

377
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,320
So if that means anything, I want to throw that out there.

378
00:33:27,550 --> 00:33:32,270
I'm looking at it as the economic development partial of it across from there.

379
00:33:32,270 --> 00:33:40,490
So there's obviously room for the growth, but there, again, the big jump.

380
00:33:41,950 --> 00:33:47,630
But also, thank you for sharing the floodplain and all that, because having to deal with

381
00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:52,970
that before personally, that limits a lot that you can do with that kind of land.

382
00:33:52,970 --> 00:33:59,150
So you can't come in from the backside of which would detour a lot of bigger companies trying

383
00:33:59,150 --> 00:34:03,630
coming in, even if it were about right coming in, and that's my opinion on that.

384
00:34:05,910 --> 00:34:14,190
The road like that was brought up by Commissioner Tanklumberg is a concern, but if

385
00:34:14,190 --> 00:34:22,210
all you're doing at this time is for your land, for your land business, and I'll see it

386
00:34:22,210 --> 00:34:33,550
actually been far off the road and it's kind of friendlier for the, I guess the neighbors

387
00:34:33,550 --> 00:34:39,810
for it's not like right on the road from it, because I've seen that too,

388
00:34:42,950 --> 00:34:43,850
but I don't

389
00:34:43,850 --> 00:34:53,330
know, I see it kind of in the right place, but then also, you know, the spot, the spot

390
00:34:53,330 --> 00:34:53,770
I don't need.

391
00:34:56,170 --> 00:34:57,290
I'm done.

392
00:34:58,830 --> 00:35:03,470
I just wanted to also say, and we're sympathetic to what you're trying to do.

393
00:35:03,530 --> 00:35:04,850
It is a great idea.

394
00:35:05,170 --> 00:35:08,490
I want you to find a place for your business.

395
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:13,770
And Cory, we're sympathetic to what you mentioned in the owners wishes.

396
00:35:15,850 --> 00:35:20,750
But again, I have to remind the condition that, you know, our obligation and responsibility

397
00:35:20,750 --> 00:35:27,270
is to follow the UDO. And what it says in there, per the definition of regional business,

398
00:35:28,430 --> 00:35:33,570
it's quoted, the regional business district has generally located on a major thoroughfare

399
00:35:33,570 --> 00:35:39,030
in the community and provides opportunities for the provision of offices services, resale goods

400
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:45,950
to meet the surrounding region. So then it continues, the regulations of this district are intended

401
00:35:45,950 --> 00:36:01,590
to accommodate predominantly auto oriented pattern of existing development until such time that the transportation network is retrofitted to accommodate more urban development patterns, which is why per the definition it needs to be on a major third affair.

402
00:36:04,190 --> 00:36:06,930
regional business doesn't make sense on this property.

403
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:09,710
In my opinion, I disagree with staff's recommendation.

404
00:36:10,210 --> 00:36:15,250
It makes me kind of feel like we need to remind

405
00:36:16,430 --> 00:36:19,090
everyone in this room that we need to look at the UDL

406
00:36:19,090 --> 00:36:21,230
and what it's telling us to do and follow it

407
00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:22,790
because that's what we're called to do.

408
00:36:22,830 --> 00:36:25,090
We don't have to like it, but it's our responsibility

409
00:36:25,090 --> 00:36:27,750
to follow it, unfortunately, in this case.

410
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:32,730
So would general business change anything?

411
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:41,080
Yeah, like

412
00:36:46,740 --> 00:36:50,760
it's for outdoor storage if we want to

413
00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:10,100
have.

414
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,000
The answer to this question from my point of view,

415
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,900
I strongly am against the regional business,

416
00:37:17,140 --> 00:37:19,240
but with now when you frame it,

417
00:37:19,260 --> 00:37:22,120
I just can answer your question not to solve any problems.

418
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,140
I got my answer before when I wasn't trying to solve a problem.

419
00:37:26,140 --> 00:37:40,800
But general business to me still doesn't fit in here, it's not on a main thoroughfare, it's surrounded by LDR.

420
00:37:42,380 --> 00:37:47,220
And that's just how I was trained to look at what this surrounding is.

421
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,760
And it seems like, did anyone sign up to talk about this?

422
00:37:53,860 --> 00:37:55,660
Can I also say something?

423
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:58,880
She's talking to me, I think.

424
00:37:59,060 --> 00:37:59,220
Okay.

425
00:38:00,180 --> 00:38:00,920
All right, I'll leave you.

426
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:01,280
I'm sorry.

427
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:03,920
I was talking to her question.

428
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:04,540
Yeah.

429
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:06,180
Yeah.

430
00:38:06,180 --> 00:38:07,460
I got to know what you did.

431
00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:11,700
I'll about the LDR part of it.

432
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,560
I know.

433
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:13,580
I mean, you're exactly right.

434
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,480
There's a lot of LDR surrounding it at the moment.

435
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:18,560
There is a parcel.

436
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:26,140
like like I can't really describe it but the parcel that kind of goes into the the bigger

437
00:38:26,140 --> 00:38:33,240
parcel that was bought by Remby and there that little building in the pink up there so they'll

438
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:39,880
probably eventually apply for rezoning the other property next to it is professional business

439
00:38:40,540 --> 00:38:47,280
the property on the top side of it is owned by Duke Duke Energy even those LDR now

440
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:54,860
So all that is probably eventually going to be moved over to some sort of a commercial use at some point.

441
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:01,160
The only, I guess, concern is this stuff on the south side, which is pure residential homes.

442
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:07,740
But there's, you know, 20 something acres on the south side that's essentially can't even touch.

443
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,020
So that's where that changes anything.

444
00:39:10,020 --> 00:39:10,600
I

445
00:39:18,250 --> 00:39:29,570
see this as a domino effect that once we grant one thing, how can we not grant the next person who wants regional business and the next person?

446
00:39:29,570 --> 00:39:33,250
to me it's like opening Pandora's box that's not going to be well now

447
00:39:34,110 --> 00:39:40,070
it's surrounded by LDR now it's regional business and now the next person wants regional business

448
00:39:40,070 --> 00:39:49,190
and then the next one and like said the UDO adds this for LDR and I see it is just a stepping stone

449
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:55,750
that and I don't see how we grant one and not grant the next and the next although that's not what we're

450
00:39:56,810 --> 00:39:58,450
It's just this property.

451
00:39:59,310 --> 00:40:00,930
And that goes back to why we have to follow

452
00:40:00,930 --> 00:40:03,750
what the UDO states, because we would be setting a precedent

453
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:06,490
of what we would be willing to change it in the future.

454
00:40:07,150 --> 00:40:09,890
And also why there's those precautions of what

455
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:11,110
spot-selling is.

456
00:40:14,620 --> 00:40:17,160
Any other comments or questions for the applicant?

457
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,180
Thank you.

458
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:20,980
Well, I was looking at your application.

459
00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:21,480
I'm sorry.

460
00:40:22,460 --> 00:40:24,980
What were the uses that were inconsistent with general business?

461
00:40:24,980 --> 00:40:28,700
Because storage we think you can do accessory use we think you can do

462
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:34,380
What is it? Which is your maintenance repair stuff? I think it was a maintenance repair thing that was to

463
00:40:34,380 --> 00:40:39,080
the issue like if we were in a change oil that that's like minor maintenance

464
00:40:39,720 --> 00:40:42,700
Because I like there's minor maintenance and then major maintenance

465
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:47,620
It's not gonna look into do that under commercial services. You're doing that for within the operation. Oh, yeah, yeah

466
00:40:47,620 --> 00:40:51,400
Yeah, that's just to you know maintain our trucks when they get fixed kind of thing

467
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,620
I think that has conditional use under general business

468
00:40:53,620 --> 00:40:54,480
That's what I was looking for.

469
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:57,660
We're struggling really hard because we all want this.

470
00:40:58,060 --> 00:40:59,360
Like I said, you've been here before.

471
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,120
We really want this to go through.

472
00:41:01,580 --> 00:41:04,200
It's just in a really precarious spot

473
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,380
for a few different reasons, spot zoning,

474
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,060
or the use is of what regional business.

475
00:41:09,060 --> 00:41:11,000
Regional business is, like you've heard a couple times,

476
00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:12,680
specific attached to a major thoroughfare.

477
00:41:12,860 --> 00:41:14,280
There is no major thoroughfare.

478
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,880
It's not a requirement, but it is strongly encouraged.

479
00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:20,560
That's where we're really struggling with those pieces.

480
00:41:22,380 --> 00:41:28,320
For the other parcel that we did, I think a few months ago, wasn't that also regional business?

481
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:31,260
Do you know?

482
00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:33,000
I think it was.

483
00:41:33,020 --> 00:41:34,360
I don't know what the last one was.

484
00:41:34,580 --> 00:41:34,860
It was.

485
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:36,620
Yeah.

486
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,660
I mean, that was a really quick approval.

487
00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:41,620
It was where it was.

488
00:41:42,020 --> 00:41:46,000
It's the location of this and being on where it is that it's while we're having the

489
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:46,260
hesitate.

490
00:41:46,420 --> 00:41:49,260
That one, you were like right off of 160, weren't you?

491
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:55,360
It was Bill St. Clair's property, it literally borders this parcel.

492
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,020
I can tell we're rock.

493
00:41:57,500 --> 00:41:59,320
How is 6.8?

494
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,400
I think that's another concern.

495
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:02,940
The 6.8,

496
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:07,740
50 usable or 25.

497
00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:11,660
I think that's what alarmed me when I first opened the pack.

498
00:42:15,710 --> 00:42:17,790
Right in the center of LDR.

499
00:42:18,890 --> 00:42:23,110
But yeah, I just think I'm worried that once we open,

500
00:42:23,770 --> 00:42:32,820
Andorra's box. Last thing that was left when everything came out of her box was hope, and I don't think there's a lot of hope once we set this emotion.

501
00:42:38,070 --> 00:42:50,810
I think we have to take into account everything in that area before we're basically approving it to turn into a reasonable business area.

502
00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:54,950
Any more questions for the applicant?

503
00:42:55,830 --> 00:42:56,650
All right. Thank you.

504
00:42:58,710 --> 00:43:07,890
We'll consider ourselves now into public comment, public hearing, no one has signed up to speak.

505
00:43:08,350 --> 00:43:10,970
So we'll consider ourselves out of public hearing.

506
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,940
Applicants, you have before you item number.

507
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:29,180
And I'm going to do, if you say RZ, 2026, 1441, Justin's tree service.

508
00:43:29,180 --> 00:43:44,340
Um, do I hear a motion and remember, um, if you're going to make the motion to either approve or deny, you have to explain why you want to approve or deny it.

509
00:43:47,860 --> 00:43:51,720
Make a motion to approve to get it onto the table for discussion.

510
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,260
New rules.

511
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,520
New rules and then high state silence.

512
00:43:58,820 --> 00:44:10,500
So, I need a motion to either approve or deny and whether you do a motion to approve deny and you just state reasons from the UDO and the comprehensive plan as to why.

513
00:44:14,990 --> 00:44:20,030
You can state whatever you want, whatever you feel is appropriate.

514
00:44:21,870 --> 00:44:23,310
I can't tell you what to say.

515
00:44:33,010 --> 00:44:41,490
I make a motion to deny, based on chapter 2, section 2.4.12, regional biscuit.

516
00:44:41,590 --> 00:44:41,750
Second.

517
00:44:43,690 --> 00:44:43,810
Second.

518
00:44:43,810 --> 00:44:43,870
Second.

519
00:44:43,870 --> 00:44:43,890
Second.

520
00:44:45,290 --> 00:44:45,950
Second.

521
00:44:49,350 --> 00:44:49,810
Second.

522
00:44:50,210 --> 00:44:50,230
Second.

523
00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:50,390
Second.

524
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,820
President Meet, the standards listed in the definition,

525
00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:10,600
as well as concerns of spot zoning,

526
00:45:14,930 --> 00:45:17,330
and it doesn't follow the current character

527
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,500
of the community.

528
00:45:32,770 --> 00:45:41,090
The commissioners, you have before you item number RZ 2020-61441, Justin's tree surface service

529
00:45:41,090 --> 00:45:56,150
With a notion that I based on, according to Section 2.4.12, regional business district, this does not meet the definition of a regional business district.

530
00:45:58,090 --> 00:46:04,810
It also looks and appears to be spot zoning, and it also does not follow the current character of the company.

531
00:46:04,810 --> 00:46:14,670
We have a motion was made by Ms. Tinklandburg. I'm just restating it was that correct as a community. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

532
00:46:14,810 --> 00:46:26,680
Sorry as a community and that's the motion that was just made by Commissioner Tinklandburg do I have a second to that motion of a second.

533
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,660
All right any more discussion about this now that we have a motion to deny.

534
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:46,460
Okay, so we have before us, item number RZ, 2026, 1441, Justin's Tree Service, we have a motion

535
00:46:46,460 --> 00:46:51,700
to deny based on it does not meet the definition of regional business district, there's

536
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:58,940
defined in section 2.4.12, qualifies a spot zoning that also does not follow the current

537
00:46:58,940 --> 00:47:01,680
character of the surrounding community.

538
00:47:02,420 --> 00:47:07,160
May we have a roll call vote, please, and this is a motion to deny, so does four is to

539
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,420
die against is four.

540
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,140
I'll love it when it's in reverse.

541
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:14,080
Richard Crandell?

542
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:14,540
Or?

543
00:47:16,700 --> 00:47:17,300
Lynette Henson?

544
00:47:19,780 --> 00:47:20,660
Judy in a Tinklandberg?

545
00:47:22,820 --> 00:47:23,400
Sheila Henson?

546
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:24,180
Or?

547
00:47:25,740 --> 00:47:26,040
Francis Lou?

548
00:47:26,620 --> 00:47:27,000
Or?

549
00:47:28,140 --> 00:47:28,680
Michelle Richards?

550
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:38,800
for, by vote of six to zero, the motion to deny this application has passed past, but please

551
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:43,220
be reminded that this item will be referred up to county council for a final decision,

552
00:47:43,660 --> 00:47:46,980
and you will be notified at the time in the place for that.

553
00:47:50,780 --> 00:47:54,720
And I apologize for all the repeating of things, now that we have new rules, I want to make

554
00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:55,900
sure I don't forget anything.

555
00:47:57,340 --> 00:48:04,500
We now have, before us, item number RZ, 2026, 1440, call that.

556
00:48:06,580 --> 00:48:11,320
All right, so this rezoning request is located at 792 Fort Mill Highway.

557
00:48:12,060 --> 00:48:16,380
The intent is to rezoning the property from meeting density residential to neighborhood

558
00:48:16,380 --> 00:48:21,020
business to allow for the professional services use type, primarily like a medical office,

559
00:48:21,580 --> 00:48:26,120
and the future land use designation for this area, according to the conference plan is

560
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,300
neighborhood, and on the left-hand side of the screen is a

561
00:48:29,300 --> 00:48:32,460
subsequent parcel outlined in a T.O. blue color for reference.

562
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,260
On the left-hand side of the screen is a view of the property of

563
00:48:39,260 --> 00:48:42,740
off of Fort Mel Highway, where they exist in vacant house.

564
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,040
On the right-hand side of the screen is an aerial image showing the

565
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,120
zoning districts and the public parcel outlined in red with a

566
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,280
star on it and highlighting the distance to the nearest

567
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,120
neighborhood business zone parcel, which is a 1,300 feet away about

568
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:04,170
a quarter of a mile and I'm looking back at the comprehensive plan, the area is also outlined

569
00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:09,310
on the left-hand side of the slide, is designated as a neighborhood, pretty much the most

570
00:49:09,310 --> 00:49:16,910
of that section of along 160 north is designated as a neighborhood and under this portion of the

571
00:49:16,910 --> 00:49:23,710
quarter up here. This request does align with the comprehensive plan and meets the requirements

572
00:49:23,710 --> 00:49:27,650
for approval. I'm available for questions, and the applicant is also here in available.

573
00:49:29,450 --> 00:49:30,750
Are there any questions for staff?

574
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:34,920
Thank you, Matthew.

575
00:49:35,340 --> 00:49:38,760
I'd like to come up, state your name and address for the record, please.

576
00:49:41,930 --> 00:49:45,790
3.336, Linda Garalene, 4.6,

577
00:49:46,070 --> 00:49:47,450
2.948.

578
00:49:50,430 --> 00:49:51,830
Any questions for the applicant?

579
00:49:54,780 --> 00:50:00,000
There's an existing house residential structure on the property.

580
00:50:00,180 --> 00:50:02,580
Are you going to try to remodel that and use that?

581
00:50:02,780 --> 00:50:04,520
Are you going to demolish it and build something else?

582
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,500
That's completely outdated.

583
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:08,860
Okay, so you're going to demolish it and build something else?

584
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:09,720
Okay.

585
00:50:10,660 --> 00:50:11,900
That was just asking.

586
00:50:13,620 --> 00:50:14,980
Any other questions for the applicant?

587
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:22,800
And this is for medical offices, so there would be no emergency services, no emergency.

588
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:28,460
No, it just basically office space, that's what they're planning for because there

589
00:50:28,460 --> 00:50:32,080
is a ton of homes on the side, right?

590
00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:39,400
So, thank you, directly across from unique room, that's right, but I built that building.

591
00:50:41,140 --> 00:50:46,800
And my husband, that's the reason we were transferred here for Belden before it.

592
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:48,960
Yeah, Belden wire was Belden wire when I built it.

593
00:50:51,670 --> 00:50:52,690
Sorry, we digress.

594
00:50:54,250 --> 00:50:56,130
We didn't know we had that connection.

595
00:50:58,790 --> 00:51:00,330
Any other questions for the applicant?

596
00:51:01,730 --> 00:51:03,350
Any additional questions for staff?

597
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:04,090
All right.

598
00:51:04,210 --> 00:51:04,810
Thank you, sir.

599
00:51:06,270 --> 00:51:09,050
We will now consider ourselves into public hearing.

600
00:51:09,050 --> 00:51:15,110
No one has signed up to speak, so we will consider ourselves out of public hearing.

601
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:23,500
So commissioners, we have before us either number RZ, 2026, 1414,

602
00:51:23,820 --> 00:51:27,960
Kotha, do I have a motion to either approve or deny?

603
00:51:30,610 --> 00:51:31,390
Motion to approve.

604
00:51:33,410 --> 00:51:33,970
Approved.

605
00:51:33,970 --> 00:51:36,410
Motion to approve the.

606
00:51:36,570 --> 00:51:37,890
Based on.

607
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:42,430
Well, based on motion to approve the rezoning, but we don't do a based on for that one, right?

608
00:51:42,430 --> 00:51:43,490
It's in accordance with the UDO.

609
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:50,410
You should still have to say that because it's in accordance with the UDO and meets definition

610
00:51:50,410 --> 00:51:51,050
of blah-blah.

611
00:51:51,410 --> 00:51:51,690
So, yes.

612
00:51:52,130 --> 00:51:52,630
New rules.

613
00:51:53,550 --> 00:51:54,550
That's quite all right.

614
00:51:55,450 --> 00:52:04,470
So, we have a motion from Commissioner Randall to approve RZ-2026-1414-Cothe based on the fact that

615
00:52:04,470 --> 00:52:11,590
the application meets the qualifications of the UDO and the comprehensive plan to we have a second.

616
00:52:11,590 --> 00:52:13,610
I'll second it.

617
00:52:13,610 --> 00:52:13,970
All right.

618
00:52:14,290 --> 00:52:14,550
Roll call.

619
00:52:14,910 --> 00:52:15,590
Vote please.

620
00:52:18,450 --> 00:52:22,390
I just wondered if we should have any discussion at all.

621
00:52:22,950 --> 00:52:24,970
Well, no one is going to have any questions.

622
00:52:25,450 --> 00:52:36,590
I was just going to say that I just even though it's not against, but I just thought to explain that why I would vote for it is that it certainly does meet the

623
00:52:36,590 --> 00:52:41,210
neighborhood business, sorry, which is

624
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:56,180
really located on thorough fairs and this is quite a thorough fair and provides opportunities for the provision of neighborhood services that service and acceptable transition to generally auto dependent neighborhoods.

625
00:52:56,460 --> 00:53:08,500
It certainly fills that and while it is surrounded by MDR and HDR across the street is, like I said, the business unique looms.

626
00:53:08,500 --> 00:53:16,560
So, because it meets all of those, even though it's surrounded by MDR, it does certainly fit

627
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:18,120
into neighborhood business.

628
00:53:18,580 --> 00:53:21,180
There's a few other businesses also across the street.

629
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:22,000
Yes?

630
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:22,180
Yes.

631
00:53:24,580 --> 00:53:25,820
So, any more discussion?

632
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:32,460
So, we have a motion and a second to approve.

633
00:53:32,460 --> 00:53:40,460
I have to approve RZ-2026-14-14-Kotha-Kotha.

634
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:42,940
I can have a roll call vote, please.

635
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:44,400
Richard Crandell?

636
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:44,860
Or?

637
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:47,520
Lynette Hansen?

638
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:48,040
Or?

639
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,180
Judy and a Tinklingberg?

640
00:53:50,740 --> 00:53:50,780
Or?

641
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:52,840
Sheila Hansen?

642
00:53:53,220 --> 00:53:53,480
Or?

643
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:55,180
Francis Lou?

644
00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:57,640
Michelle Richards?

645
00:53:58,260 --> 00:53:58,420
Or?

646
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:01,720
Motion passes six to

647
00:54:03,140 --> 00:54:04,400
Thank you.

648
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:12,560
Next item on the agenda is a non-hearing item.

649
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:20,420
I have to remind you, this will be remanded to County Council and you will be notified of the time in the place for that meeting.

650
00:54:20,420 --> 00:54:22,840
I have to get all the legal stuff in.

651
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:24,760
Thank you.

652
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:33,040
Next item on the agenda is a non-hearing item in our in 2026-1681, the August road name,

653
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:33,480
the Biddle.

654
00:54:36,090 --> 00:54:37,930
All right, so this month is a little lighter.

655
00:54:38,170 --> 00:54:43,470
This is a leftover back when we first found out, again, that you all have to be the ones who approve or deny road names.

656
00:54:43,870 --> 00:54:45,030
And this one got through the cracks.

657
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:45,970
So we're going to back up to you.

658
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:49,950
This is, I'm pretty sort of the last phase of all the creek that has not been built yet.

659
00:54:49,950 --> 00:54:56,450
And so the only road name is Mud Puppy Lane, which is a relative of the Salamander or pretty close to

660
00:54:59,750 --> 00:55:00,490
it.

661
00:55:00,630 --> 00:55:01,110
Mud Puppy.

662
00:55:01,350 --> 00:55:02,270
How cute.

663
00:55:03,870 --> 00:55:04,410
Any questions?

664
00:55:06,310 --> 00:55:06,490
Okay.

665
00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:17,130
So commissioners, we have before us out of number in R and 2026-1681 August group road names the middle.

666
00:55:17,490 --> 00:55:19,450
Do I have a motion to accept?

667
00:55:19,450 --> 00:55:29,110
have a second, like the CZ roll call show of hands, I mean just show of hands, motion passes

668
00:55:29,110 --> 00:55:29,730
60.

669
00:55:30,490 --> 00:55:31,050
Thank you.

670
00:55:32,670 --> 00:55:37,070
All right, next item on the agenda, the one that I'll the other people are waiting for, so

671
00:55:37,070 --> 00:55:38,050
anxiously.

672
00:55:40,930 --> 00:55:48,250
Next before us is a discussion on the new unified development ordinance draft.

673
00:55:48,250 --> 00:55:51,770
and I'm chairwoman because we take a brief recess before we start this.

674
00:55:52,070 --> 00:55:52,650
Okay, interrupting.

675
00:55:53,230 --> 00:55:55,510
Do I have a motion to take a brief recess?

676
00:55:56,750 --> 00:55:57,350
I have some moved.

677
00:55:57,490 --> 00:55:58,270
I have a second.

678
00:55:59,110 --> 00:56:00,170
Okay, five minutes please.

679
00:56:00,570 --> 00:56:00,990
Or last seat.

680
00:56:01,010 --> 00:56:01,690
Or last yes.

681
00:56:02,450 --> 00:56:03,070
Thank you.

682
01:01:55,180 --> 01:02:02,700
Let's get back on track so we can get out here tonight. The next item on the agenda is public hearing aid

683
01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:06,040
for recommendation and council, the unified development ordinance draft.

684
01:02:09,100 --> 01:02:10,360
Who's going to get up and speak?

685
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:12,500
I'll say everybody sit there going, not me.

686
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:23,700
Somebody has to speak. Okay. Good evening, planning commission.

687
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:29,280
My name is Kelly Cousin. I'm a principal of white Smith Cousin. The consultant firm that has been

688
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:31,640
working with the county for the past several years

689
01:02:31,640 --> 01:02:34,760
on the updated management ordinance.

690
01:02:39,020 --> 01:02:41,200
So tonight I'm just gonna,

691
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:41,640
I'm just gonna,

692
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:43,340
I'm sorry, I'm just gonna state your name

693
01:02:43,340 --> 01:02:44,480
and address for the record.

694
01:02:44,900 --> 01:02:46,060
You did your name, but not your address.

695
01:02:46,780 --> 01:02:47,680
Oh, I'm sorry.

696
01:02:49,060 --> 01:02:50,060
Do you need my home address?

697
01:02:50,540 --> 01:02:51,780
I'm, give your company address.

698
01:02:51,980 --> 01:02:52,500
Okay.

699
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:55,300
It's the first office box I had to give a post office box.

700
01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:59,980
So it's PO box 10954, Charleston, South Carolina.

701
01:03:01,620 --> 01:03:07,700
So I'm going to just run through quickly where we've been, how we've gotten to this evening,

702
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:14,600
and then Sean is going to take you through some of the major changes that are proposed

703
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:19,760
in this version of the EDO as well as some of the feedback that we've heard so far.

704
01:03:21,580 --> 01:03:26,880
We have been working with the county for going on five years now.

705
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:31,900
We started back in the fall of 2021 with an assessment of the county's current

706
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:38,220
Edo, which culminated in some series of recommendations for changes and improvements to

707
01:03:38,220 --> 01:03:38,800
the code.

708
01:03:39,660 --> 01:03:41,580
Then we set off with drafting.

709
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:47,780
We drafted in modules, so sort of chunks of like information, training districts, uses,

710
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:54,360
development standards, administration, and we finalized everything last September with

711
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:58,200
public review draft dated September 30th, 2025.

712
01:03:59,060 --> 01:04:02,780
Not long after that, the county council appointed an ad hoc

713
01:04:02,780 --> 01:04:07,380
UDO committee to review that draft and the committee spent

714
01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:11,200
basically from November to July, meeting frequently.

715
01:04:11,700 --> 01:04:14,140
And I apologize, I don't remember how many meetings

716
01:04:14,140 --> 01:04:15,180
else at the top of my head.

717
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:16,380
But two weeks?

718
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:19,540
Yeah, it was, it was a lot of meetings.

719
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:20,480
A lot of meetings.

720
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:23,120
Yeah, and it was every week for some time periods.

721
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:28,760
Yeah, when you was, so the committee was comprised of to your planning commission chair.

722
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:34,460
I'm Ms. Tinklumberg and three members of County Council and some other citizens of the county.

723
01:04:35,540 --> 01:04:45,040
And they literally, the committee was going through page by page topic by topic and having really great conversation about some of the details of the UDO.

724
01:04:45,340 --> 01:04:49,660
And so what is before you tonight in the UDO is,

725
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,940
Let's try again now that we have overcome our technical difficulties.

726
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:17,800
Of course.

727
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:18,940
Thank you.

728
01:05:19,140 --> 01:05:20,160
Everyone's for their patients.

729
01:05:21,980 --> 01:05:25,860
The only other thing to add here is just that we're beginning the adoption process planning

730
01:05:25,860 --> 01:05:26,400
Commission.

731
01:05:26,940 --> 01:05:28,460
This is the first step.

732
01:05:28,880 --> 01:05:33,900
You all at some point will make a report and recommendation to council on the

733
01:05:34,460 --> 01:05:42,060
and then the council will hold a public hearing and require three readings before it could be adopted.

734
01:05:47,220 --> 01:05:50,040
There's a magic trick and everybody fights with it, apparently.

735
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:51,560
I do not know it.

736
01:05:51,820 --> 01:05:54,240
All right Matt, Corey, somebody sure the magic trick.

737
01:05:56,980 --> 01:05:58,840
I know y'all fight with that every time.

738
01:06:04,150 --> 01:06:05,170
Oh, there you go.

739
01:06:05,470 --> 01:06:06,450
Oops, not too far.

740
01:06:07,070 --> 01:06:08,750
No, no, no, no.

741
01:06:17,930 --> 01:06:18,590
There we go.

742
01:06:20,770 --> 01:06:21,430
That it.

743
01:06:21,950 --> 01:06:22,730
Yeah, that's it.

744
01:06:25,250 --> 01:06:42,650
So this is just an overview of the revised UDO chapters, so we have done some reorganization of current standards in addition to adding new things, but there are there are 16 chapters they start out with the topics that are typically of the most interest to people,

745
01:06:42,650 --> 01:06:47,970
learning districts, use regulations, development standards, and then the more technical and administrative

746
01:06:47,970 --> 01:06:50,690
information is towards the back of the document.

747
01:06:52,990 --> 01:06:55,890
This is just a screenshot. If you look at the

748
01:06:55,890 --> 01:07:02,490
digital PDF version of the document, it is bookmarked and hyperlinked, so you navigate using that

749
01:07:02,490 --> 01:07:09,750
table of contents and anywhere within the text of the document that you see a reference to another

750
01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:20,030
section of the UDO, you can just click on that and it'll it'll jump you to that section, so hopefully it'll be easy to navigate for folks who are using online version.

751
01:07:22,130 --> 01:07:22,830
Magic is.

752
01:07:29,390 --> 01:07:30,970
Can you have a can you advance the slide?

753
01:07:31,370 --> 01:07:31,390
Perfect.

754
01:07:32,390 --> 01:07:35,270
I'm going to turn it over to Sean to discuss some of the pros.

755
01:07:35,630 --> 01:07:36,030
All

756
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:41,480
right.

757
01:07:41,720 --> 01:07:41,840
Great.

758
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:42,380
Thank you, Kelly.

759
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:44,160
My name is Sean.

760
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:56,560
scoop mine and with white Smith Kuznou and our addresses, Q box 205, 20954 in Charleston, South Carolina.

761
01:07:57,220 --> 01:08:08,360
Thank you. Yeah. So I, like Kelly said, I'm going to discuss a couple of the major changes and this is the overview slide of all of the major changes.

762
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:24,840
We'll discuss each one with its own separate slide and I will leave it up to you and the commissioners whether you would like to discuss each one of these topics as we go through them and ask questions individually you're waiting till the end.

763
01:08:25,340 --> 01:08:27,860
I'm happy to accommodate you whatever makes sense.

764
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:30,120
Let's do it over section by section basis.

765
01:08:30,340 --> 01:08:35,540
Judy Ann and I know this thing in and out but I know the other ones have only gone through it.

766
01:08:35,540 --> 01:08:42,340
Once so I think it probably best if we do it on a section by section basis. Okay, and there may or may not be questions.

767
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:43,680
Great.

768
01:08:44,440 --> 01:08:47,380
Well, feel free to interrupt me if there are questions.

769
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:50,940
We're here to help you all. Make this decision.

770
01:08:52,100 --> 01:09:03,240
All right, so really the major changes as they're organized here are kind of organized in a conceptual way the first two topics really relate to subdivision design.

771
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:11,600
The fucking D3, 4 in the middle, all relate to the zoning districts and changes in some of the zoning districts.

772
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:19,600
Flood regulations is kind of a separate standalone change, but a fairly significant change,

773
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:21,840
at least in the organization of the code.

774
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:30,060
And then the last topic, except division, thresholds and infrastructure, is what I would describe as maybe an undecided issue

775
01:09:30,060 --> 01:09:36,120
Or at loose end maybe loose thread. I don't even know what the right analogy is and I'm sorry

776
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:38,120
This is being recorded now, but anyway

777
01:09:38,820 --> 01:09:48,480
You know, if something that there is content in the UDO, but not has much agreement from everybody about either what they what it means or what they want it to mean

778
01:09:49,660 --> 01:09:51,320
All right, so

779
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:54,400
If Sean has the magic touch

780
01:10:01,860 --> 01:10:03,580
What do you point at it up there?

781
01:10:03,980 --> 01:10:03,980
Oh,

782
01:10:09,250 --> 01:10:12,600
there we go.

783
01:10:15,570 --> 01:10:18,130
All right, so this topic and the next one,

784
01:10:18,350 --> 01:10:19,610
somewhat go hand in hand.

785
01:10:20,230 --> 01:10:23,410
This one is conservation subdivision design.

786
01:10:24,350 --> 01:10:30,610
The next and this applies as a subdivision type that is intended to replace

787
01:10:30,610 --> 01:10:33,330
the current cluster subdivision overlay.

788
01:10:34,450 --> 01:10:37,410
The next slide that you're going to see about open space

789
01:10:37,410 --> 01:10:41,150
in subdivisions applies to all conventional subdivisions.

790
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:44,330
So in order for this one to apply,

791
01:10:44,410 --> 01:10:47,570
it would really have to be a conservation subdivision

792
01:10:47,930 --> 01:10:50,270
at the election of the applicant.

793
01:10:51,850 --> 01:10:57,510
So what we're coming from here is we understand that at least with MDR,

794
01:10:59,890 --> 01:11:04,490
the idea of clustering presents some unsatisfactory outcomes

795
01:11:04,490 --> 01:11:14,430
to citizens and council, maybe to y'all also, because the lot sizes end up becoming very small.

796
01:11:14,770 --> 01:11:19,530
And that is one of the purposes of conservation subdivisions to make the lot sizes smaller,

797
01:11:19,810 --> 01:11:26,590
so you can keep the conservation area bigger, but there is some need to find a balance there.

798
01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:33,350
So in the table at the bottom of this, we have the current cluster and the different metrics,

799
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:39,370
you know, the district available conservation percentage required, whether there's improved open space,

800
01:11:39,550 --> 01:11:45,630
the minimum lot's size and the maximum density. So really, you know, in the current MDR cluster,

801
01:11:45,870 --> 01:11:53,590
you're looking at 5,000 square feet for your lots, which is what we understand is this is

802
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:59,150
one of the primary concerns of the community to have density at this level.

803
01:11:59,150 --> 01:12:05,590
But also I think it's one of Council's concerns because it requires or it doesn't require.

804
01:12:06,470 --> 01:12:16,710
But there are many requests to reason to MDR, including possibly in areas where it isn't appropriate or they just aren't particularly interested in hearing it.

805
01:12:17,250 --> 01:12:29,030
And they, I think have been struggling with the idea that to reach some kind of development threshold that makes sense to the developers that you have to reason to MDR.

806
01:12:29,790 --> 01:12:59,130
And so, one of the things that we worked on a good bit in the ad hoc committee was finding a middle ground where you could have some kind of cluster or conservation subdivision design that basically preserved enough open space, natural area and also ended up with lot sizes that were satisfactory and that matched the districts that you were looking for.

807
01:12:59,130 --> 01:13:07,050
looking at. And I'll say that the last piece kind of for the logic behind this was that

808
01:13:07,050 --> 01:13:17,350
there are not many MDR parcels that are undeveloped. And so, you know, I think that there's

809
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:25,330
an interest in looking at LDR and to some extent, some lesser extent, RN. For all of

810
01:13:25,330 --> 01:13:29,610
these, it will require sewer and water.

811
01:13:30,370 --> 01:13:31,950
So, you know, that's one of the real issues

812
01:13:31,950 --> 01:13:34,170
with making the law sizes smaller,

813
01:13:34,170 --> 01:13:35,470
if you have to use septic,

814
01:13:35,470 --> 01:13:39,050
you couldn't use a 14,000 square foot lot, period.

815
01:13:41,390 --> 01:13:45,150
So, some of the feedback that we've gotten on this,

816
01:13:45,370 --> 01:13:48,530
from the developers, their engineers,

817
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:53,890
their concern that the law sizes are too large,

818
01:13:53,890 --> 01:14:03,370
to effectively develop an economical kind of market rate

819
01:14:03,370 --> 01:14:05,850
affordable subdivision using this framework.

820
01:14:06,810 --> 01:14:08,850
And their primary concern with the lot sizes

821
01:14:08,850 --> 01:14:17,040
are the lot widths, so that's the largest expense

822
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:18,620
that you would have in developing

823
01:14:18,620 --> 01:14:21,500
is building all the roads and infrastructure.

824
01:14:22,660 --> 01:14:30,040
So this is something that I think that you're going to learn pretty quickly, if it is popular or not,

825
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:35,340
because you're either going to get subdivision applications using this, or you're not.

826
01:14:35,700 --> 01:14:38,240
You know, in the first six months, in the first year, it'll be apparent.

827
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:44,760
And so really, I think that the concept is there.

828
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:55,170
And I guess the question is, you know, the minimum lot sizes too large compared to the district

829
01:14:55,170 --> 01:14:56,110
lot sizes.

830
01:14:56,170 --> 01:14:59,670
You know, it's like RN is one acre.

831
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:15,140
In base, you know, this is a half acre. So it's a significant departure from the normal district standard. But you do get a lot of conservation area, even with these fairly large lots.

832
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:24,780
Any questions on kind of this, the concept, you know, how it, how we worked it out and, you know, what it, what it looks like.

833
01:15:26,990 --> 01:15:38,870
And would it be written in somewhere as this big quality land that is set aside and not just from a usable land?

834
01:15:40,450 --> 01:15:41,810
So that's a good question.

835
01:15:42,410 --> 01:15:45,830
And it's a problem that everybody has with their conservation subdivisions.

836
01:15:46,950 --> 01:15:54,010
It's also a problem with land in general, especially in places that have had a lot of development.

837
01:15:54,010 --> 01:15:58,810
there's just a lot of land that may not be quality land or really

838
01:15:59,370 --> 01:16:04,630
developable. So what the approach that this has is an incentive for preferred

839
01:16:04,630 --> 01:16:09,630
locations and the incentive is the reduction.

840
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,080
I'm looking at the tree

841
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,640
save area. I'm sorry. Let me go back to this because I think there is an incentive

842
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:20,740
with this too.

843
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:51,520
All right, so the general framework really was to include, and there is not an incentive,

844
01:16:51,580 --> 01:16:57,760
I'm sorry about that. There is an incentive for tree save area, which could be one of the conservation

845
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:07,400
area types, so I think that in reality that would work, but so the way that this works is,

846
01:17:07,400 --> 01:17:15,100
If you're going to do it, you would have to have this natural open space as the lion's share of your open space.

847
01:17:15,980 --> 01:17:23,860
And you can have an incentive for areas that are adjacent to riparian buffers and for existing hardwood stands.

848
01:17:25,320 --> 01:17:32,840
You're going for that, but there is a slight reduction in the conservation area as a part of that.

849
01:17:32,840 --> 01:17:57,980
Now, in counting, we've done the calculation of the open space a little bit differently than with the standard open space subdivision, so this allows the inclusion of buffers, wetlands and floodplains, which, you know, really, especially including wetlands, I think, was one of the goals to make this something where, you know, if you have a parcel that has significant wetlands.

850
01:17:57,980 --> 01:18:05,500
It really gives you an incentive to use this and preserve those because it's basically free as a part of your development.

851
01:18:06,220 --> 01:18:15,300
It wouldn't count as open space if you were doing just a conventional subdivision, which is now required and we'll get to that on the next slide.

852
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:17,960
All right, but that's a good question. Thank you.

853
01:18:24,470 --> 01:18:31,250
I just asked what made me ask is, I live in a subdivision that was approved over 20 years ago.

854
01:18:31,310 --> 01:18:34,570
No one here in planning had anything to do with it.

855
01:18:34,730 --> 01:18:39,530
But the developer was told a set aside roughly seven acres of green space.

856
01:18:39,810 --> 01:18:43,150
And it's the cramious nastiest seven acres.

857
01:18:43,750 --> 01:18:45,430
And nothing can be done with it.

858
01:18:45,430 --> 01:18:53,150
And we, that was it and it wasn't even inside the subdivision and just looking at this,

859
01:18:53,150 --> 01:18:59,330
it's a pretty picture where it says conservation though, pretty drawing, but in reality,

860
01:19:00,430 --> 01:19:06,250
it could look nothing like that in just because they're junkies land and that just concerns

861
01:19:06,250 --> 01:19:07,510
me kind of.

862
01:19:07,510 --> 01:19:16,730
is a beautiful word. But if you're conserving a bunch of crap, excuse me, language, it just doesn't

863
01:19:16,730 --> 01:19:24,350
seem like such a good bargain for us. So that's a very good additional point. So long-term,

864
01:19:24,850 --> 01:19:29,990
one of the keys is maintenance and what maintenance requirements are there. There are maintenance

865
01:19:29,990 --> 01:19:36,990
requirements that apply to this space, and so in general, it would be up to the HOA.

866
01:19:38,570 --> 01:19:45,230
You know, so in theory for natural open space, you really would not want to do match maintenance.

867
01:19:45,910 --> 01:19:56,410
But, you know, if you would need to remove invasive plants, let's say, you can remove dead, diseased and dying trees and other plants.

868
01:19:56,410 --> 01:19:59,150
but I think that the light touch is really

869
01:19:59,150 --> 01:20:02,210
the preference for this kind of natural open space type.

870
01:20:03,710 --> 01:20:04,470
Thank you.

871
01:20:07,610 --> 01:20:12,430
So then in general, open space for conventional subdivisions

872
01:20:12,430 --> 01:20:15,870
is kind of the flip side of the same coin.

873
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:18,930
You know, this is a new concept,

874
01:20:19,810 --> 01:20:22,390
and it is based on a lot of the things

875
01:20:22,390 --> 01:20:26,490
that we heard from the residents of Langston County.

876
01:20:27,730 --> 01:20:29,370
There's a concern with density.

877
01:20:30,210 --> 01:20:32,810
There's also a concern with the livability

878
01:20:32,810 --> 01:20:36,150
and sort of the quality of life in subdivisions.

879
01:20:38,090 --> 01:20:41,430
And so there are kind of these two different parts.

880
01:20:41,610 --> 01:20:44,330
There's open space and improved open space.

881
01:20:44,870 --> 01:20:48,570
Improved open space counts in the percentage of open space.

882
01:20:48,570 --> 01:20:50,530
So you don't add these two up.

883
01:20:51,890 --> 01:20:57,550
But, you know, basically improve the open space or things like, you know, parks, playgrounds, squares, et cetera.

884
01:20:58,170 --> 01:21:05,890
And then open space would include those. So, you know, if they wanted it to be 15% parks and playgrounds, they could do that.

885
01:21:06,210 --> 01:21:10,390
If they wanted it to be, if you're an RN, for example, that's just the top line.

886
01:21:10,390 --> 01:21:22,490
If you wanted it to be 5% of the site area as improved and 10% as natural area, it could be that.

887
01:21:23,730 --> 01:21:29,390
So there's a lot of flexibility in the design opportunities with this open space.

888
01:21:29,390 --> 01:21:58,450
In general, this is something that is scaled so that the more dense the development will be the larger the improved open space requirement in particular with the MFR districts, which are new, and we'll talk about next, we've got 10% improved open space, because you're going to have a lot more people, and so things like playgrounds, and you'll probably also have a lot more children quite frankly.

889
01:21:58,450 --> 01:22:00,710
I would think in, you sort of, MFR,

890
01:22:01,110 --> 01:22:05,010
and then like a larger, a lot subdivision.

891
01:22:06,070 --> 01:22:08,670
So this is something that is very common

892
01:22:08,670 --> 01:22:10,550
in a lot of jurisdictions.

893
01:22:12,110 --> 01:22:14,330
But it is, it could be a big change.

894
01:22:14,410 --> 01:22:16,590
I mean, we've listed this on the major changes list,

895
01:22:17,450 --> 01:22:19,590
but this is, I think, an important change

896
01:22:19,590 --> 01:22:21,690
for quality of life, especially now.

897
01:22:22,090 --> 01:22:25,910
The flip side in the comments that we get on strategies like this

898
01:22:25,910 --> 01:22:34,730
that it can diminish market rate affordability of housing and so, you know, to really hit that,

899
01:22:34,830 --> 01:22:42,190
you have to improve the quality of life where you can and then also find other opportunities for

900
01:22:42,190 --> 01:22:47,410
market rate affordable housing, which is really the goal of these multifamily residential districts.

901
01:22:47,990 --> 01:22:51,690
Before I move on, are there any questions about open space for conventional?

902
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:57,430
I just would want to say going forward because of the experience with Legacy Park.

903
01:22:58,750 --> 01:23:06,030
2015, 2025, that sounds great, but if they're allowed to give a piece of crap land, it

904
01:23:06,030 --> 01:23:07,330
doesn't benefit anybody.

905
01:23:07,630 --> 01:23:13,690
We have beautiful playground and pond and stuff, but seven full acres of nothingness.

906
01:23:14,070 --> 01:23:20,630
So I would just, I don't know how it's staying care of down the road, but this looks

907
01:23:20,630 --> 01:23:28,450
great on paper, but when a developer finds a way to purchase seven acres across the street

908
01:23:28,450 --> 01:23:36,850
that has nothing to do with the neighborhood and has given that leeway that you've met

909
01:23:36,850 --> 01:23:44,290
your 15-20% whatever, but it's worthless and doesn't improve the quality of life for anybody

910
01:23:44,290 --> 01:23:50,130
in that area. I just hope going forward there's a way to keep an eye on things like that.

911
01:23:50,130 --> 01:23:57,170
didn't we add some some provision along those lines to make sure that it wasn't just the left over

912
01:23:58,890 --> 01:24:03,610
you know areas between BMPs and things like that to make sure that it didn't

913
01:24:04,570 --> 01:24:10,530
do what you're describing? Yes, so we do have location and design standards.

914
01:24:12,030 --> 01:24:16,670
You know and it's interesting you mentioned this idea of it being across the street. So the really

915
01:24:16,670 --> 01:24:22,370
The first one is that the open space has to be integral, it has to be an integral part of the overall design.

916
01:24:23,470 --> 01:24:27,010
You know, and these are the type of design standards that you could apply as a planning commission.

917
01:24:27,490 --> 01:24:33,370
So it's, you know, open space shall be an integral part of the overall development design.

918
01:24:34,590 --> 01:24:41,250
The specific layout of open space should be designed to be sensitive to the physical and design characteristics of the site.

919
01:24:41,250 --> 01:24:48,270
The open space should be contiguous and connected with open space both within the development and on a burning properties.

920
01:24:49,270 --> 01:24:53,270
Not be occupied by structures unless the structures are an integral part of the open space.

921
01:24:53,910 --> 01:25:00,630
Have direct access to the pedestrian network and be accessible to all residents occupants and tenants of the development.

922
01:25:01,450 --> 01:25:09,890
And really the goals of those are all to ensure that you don't, you're not going to guarantee the quality of the land itself.

923
01:25:09,890 --> 01:25:15,990
But, you know, if you have seven acres that are on the other side of a creek, nobody can get to.

924
01:25:16,210 --> 01:25:18,110
That's what this is designed to avoid.

925
01:25:18,510 --> 01:25:20,290
I don't want to take up any more time.

926
01:25:20,450 --> 01:25:23,530
But that was something that I didn't want to be anecdotal.

927
01:25:23,830 --> 01:25:25,730
But that is huge mistake.

928
01:25:25,970 --> 01:25:30,210
Well, and also I remember two, when it comes before us on the culinary plat,

929
01:25:30,450 --> 01:25:33,530
that's when we can say, you've got this beautiful open space area,

930
01:25:33,550 --> 01:25:37,910
but it's over here where nobody can, so therefore it doesn't meet the intention of the video.

931
01:25:37,910 --> 01:25:40,510
Yes, I'm just wanted to add you a point.

932
01:25:41,170 --> 01:25:59,930
There is a list of excluded uses, so those include repairing buffers, special flood hazard areas, wetlands, roads and driveways, parking areas, swimming pools, and structures, except when they're like a gezebo or something in open space.

933
01:26:00,610 --> 01:26:07,890
So those, as Sean mentioned earlier, in the conservation subdivision, some of those things can count as an incentive to use that subdivision type.

934
01:26:07,890 --> 01:26:13,310
but in just conventional subdivisions, those areas couldn't count for us.

935
01:26:14,110 --> 01:26:15,290
Thank you very much.

936
01:26:16,190 --> 01:26:19,010
And one of the obvious reasons for that is that,

937
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:23,870
if you could take seven acres of wetland and just set it aside,

938
01:26:24,750 --> 01:26:26,370
you count that as your open space.

939
01:26:26,870 --> 01:26:28,410
That's not the sort of open space.

940
01:26:28,470 --> 01:26:30,130
It is important to open space to preserve.

941
01:26:30,930 --> 01:26:34,110
But that's not the kind of usable open space that I think that is.

942
01:26:34,110 --> 01:26:35,790
Not that anyone would want to do that.

943
01:26:35,950 --> 01:26:36,190
Right.

944
01:26:36,850 --> 01:26:39,890
Thank you very much. I appreciate your time for explaining that.

945
01:26:40,410 --> 01:26:45,270
Sure. Can I ask two questions? Back to the conservation area. Sorry to take you back to.

946
01:26:45,710 --> 01:26:48,830
I saw that one requires sewer for both R&N and LER.

947
01:26:49,830 --> 01:26:55,830
Do we have any assessment of how what the feasibility of what's the actual usability of that within the county?

948
01:26:56,130 --> 01:27:02,470
Because R&N I think is unlikely in most cases to have sewer, so it feels like it's not actually going to.

949
01:27:02,610 --> 01:27:04,390
You said we'll see in the next six months to a year.

950
01:27:04,390 --> 01:27:11,490
I'm not sure if we will or won't because I'm not sure we'll have the applicability to actually apply the apply those things whether there's a desire for it

951
01:27:11,490 --> 01:27:13,090
But we won't see the

952
01:27:13,450 --> 01:27:18,430
Desire from of it. We will see perhaps the applicability of it based on the conditions being met.

953
01:27:18,690 --> 01:27:23,610
Yes, you tell me a little bit about that. Why what was the, I get that we have always we compress these last

954
01:27:23,610 --> 01:27:28,390
We have a hard time putting septic on them so I can see why they would have sewer, but if there is a suitable lot

955
01:27:28,390 --> 01:27:33,130
that still meets that, why would it still have the sewage requirement as a hard requirement?

956
01:27:34,190 --> 01:27:39,390
All right, so two parts of the question, I would say the big picture question is,

957
01:27:40,550 --> 01:27:47,830
have we been able to evaluate existing LDR and RN sites for sewer availability?

958
01:27:47,830 --> 01:27:59,650
Right? And the answer is no. We've tried, but the Lancaster water and sewer district, they're very tight with their maps.

959
01:28:00,090 --> 01:28:06,390
So we have not been able to get the maps to overland with our districts. It would be helpful.

960
01:28:08,350 --> 01:28:12,250
If you have a connection with Lancaster water and sewer now's the time to pull it in.

961
01:28:12,250 --> 01:28:13,630
Yeah, it's just my bill.

962
01:28:16,170 --> 01:28:19,370
So, so in general, this is the feedback that I've heard

963
01:28:19,370 --> 01:28:22,410
and kind of the boots on the ground that I've seen,

964
01:28:22,510 --> 01:28:24,410
especially working with the ad hoc committee,

965
01:28:25,110 --> 01:28:27,890
that there are a number of LDR sites

966
01:28:27,890 --> 01:28:32,590
that will have, that do or will soon have sewer access, right?

967
01:28:33,190 --> 01:28:36,350
RN is much less likely to have sewer access.

968
01:28:38,170 --> 01:28:42,010
But, you know, this is something that is a long term project

969
01:28:42,010 --> 01:28:46,550
And so who's to say where sewer is going to be in 20 years?

970
01:28:49,070 --> 01:28:51,670
So that's kind of the big picture.

971
01:28:51,890 --> 01:28:58,170
The smaller picture really is, you know, that it would be possible to do this in a way that,

972
01:28:58,850 --> 01:29:04,250
you know, you could have a lot by lot requirements to see if the lots perk.

973
01:29:04,490 --> 01:29:07,130
I mean, you know, like, that's a normal thing.

974
01:29:07,130 --> 01:29:34,730
But it's a little bit different than the framework that y'all have here because it requires a lot more interaction with staff and the developer, you know, I mean, basically you typically you have them prepare a certain sample size usually a percentage of the lots or something they go out, they test them, they come back with the results, you know, and you kind of go from there to figure out whether the lots would support septic or not.

975
01:29:35,610 --> 01:29:47,930
You know, really with the, with the quarter acre lot size with LDR, I mean, I doubt you would ever have a qualified lot for septic at a lot size that small.

976
01:29:47,970 --> 01:29:49,350
It's more RN than I.

977
01:29:49,370 --> 01:29:51,630
Yeah, and a half acre, it's, it's possible.

978
01:29:52,910 --> 01:29:59,970
I mean, you know, if you, if you want to make this more available, or if you are hitting a minimum stand, if you just said, hey, you're not doing half.

979
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:04,780
Speaker on that, you're using a conservation subdivision, but you're at something that perks, right?

980
01:30:04,780 --> 01:30:11,820
Whatever that, whatever that baseline standard is, you could qualify as the conservation subdivision and not be stuck

981
01:30:11,820 --> 01:30:21,200
hung up on the must have sewer. Yes, sorry, man. Yes. So originally the ad hoc committee had the

982
01:30:21,200 --> 01:30:26,240
are in at three-quarter of an acre lots, and you could use septic.

983
01:30:29,110 --> 01:30:30,530
But there was some discomfort

984
01:30:30,530 --> 01:30:38,930
at lowering it to a half an acre, not having that. That backstop. But I think if you wanted to

985
01:30:38,930 --> 01:30:45,430
consider it, I mean, it's a valid concern and would definitely open this up. It would open up

986
01:30:45,430 --> 01:30:51,050
more opportunities to use are in conservation. That concern come from, who was the source of

987
01:30:51,050 --> 01:30:52,850
concerned was that from Lancaster County Water?

988
01:30:53,690 --> 01:30:58,030
No, I think that the concern, at least on the part of the committee, was that in general

989
01:30:58,030 --> 01:31:04,170
the soils are not of a quality that they would really reasonably expect the lots would

990
01:31:04,170 --> 01:31:04,450
perk.

991
01:31:05,690 --> 01:31:06,470
That's fair.

992
01:31:09,210 --> 01:31:09,450
Thank you.

993
01:31:09,650 --> 01:31:14,090
And then on the next one, she was my question here.

994
01:31:14,410 --> 01:31:14,650
Oh, okay.

995
01:31:14,750 --> 01:31:15,610
I think I remember my question.

996
01:31:16,030 --> 01:31:21,110
You talked about, as we make these changes, there's also a consideration for the market rate of these

997
01:31:21,110 --> 01:31:30,210
and is it suitable and have we looked at done have we did we do the economic study side of that to say hey, as we look at these metrics and say we're going to make this much of it open space

998
01:31:30,210 --> 01:31:39,190
This much improved open space. We expect the market rates to change by this and is that suitable really for our county is that suitable for care constituency is that

999
01:31:39,810 --> 01:31:47,530
Maybe is that pool and the constituents we're looking to pull in is it going to allow things like as we look at this more comprehensively and on an isolated stage

1000
01:31:47,530 --> 01:31:55,630
We're one of the things I know that's in here that I think is we look in the business and technology districts that we're looking to pull a more business, which I think we very much need.

1001
01:31:55,950 --> 01:31:59,970
And I think we need this also, especially the MDR or the MFR and the MFR.

1002
01:32:00,630 --> 01:32:06,410
As we look at that, are we are our home staying in a market rate based on those changes.

1003
01:32:06,590 --> 01:32:08,130
Is that, do we do the economic impact?

1004
01:32:08,690 --> 01:32:13,270
No, we have not done that sort of level of economic impact on this.

1005
01:32:13,270 --> 01:32:20,330
You know, so I would say that in general, this is the sort of feedback that we get on codes like this.

1006
01:32:22,050 --> 01:32:27,790
And, you know, there are so many factors that go into the way the market price is set, right?

1007
01:32:27,970 --> 01:32:31,710
You know, really this affects the use of the land.

1008
01:32:32,190 --> 01:32:38,310
And so it's going to change the value of raw land that would be sold for development.

1009
01:32:40,510 --> 01:32:49,030
It's probably also going to be, it's also probably going to affect the percentage of the

1010
01:32:49,030 --> 01:32:55,110
sale price or the base price of a house that is accounted for by the land cost.

1011
01:32:56,850 --> 01:33:08,290
But how the purchase price of the land compares to the sale price of the land is very

1012
01:33:08,790 --> 01:33:11,210
You just don't have that level of precision with it.

1013
01:33:11,570 --> 01:33:13,410
Do we have no signal or a comfort of stuff?

1014
01:33:13,810 --> 01:33:16,530
Are there other other counties that are done this kind of thing?

1015
01:33:16,730 --> 01:33:18,170
And we've seen how those have impacted.

1016
01:33:18,430 --> 01:33:19,610
We have any.

1017
01:33:19,610 --> 01:33:24,470
Maybe we can maybe looking at it in a specific in a individual one-off basis is difficult.

1018
01:33:24,590 --> 01:33:29,590
But if we look at it in an aggregate as a across a broad set of counties that are done something like this,

1019
01:33:29,690 --> 01:33:32,210
we can get no signal ideas of what those changes are.

1020
01:33:32,290 --> 01:33:33,670
Do we have any concept of that?

1021
01:33:33,750 --> 01:33:35,930
I don't, but that is a very good question.

1022
01:33:35,930 --> 01:33:39,060
And we will look into it and get back with you on that.

1023
01:33:40,090 --> 01:33:40,530
That was it.

1024
01:33:40,530 --> 01:33:40,850
Thanks.

1025
01:33:41,030 --> 01:33:41,770
Sorry to make you jump back.

1026
01:33:41,850 --> 01:33:42,910
Oh, no, that's great.

1027
01:33:53,970 --> 01:33:58,450
So for the new residential districts, these have not been mapped anywhere.

1028
01:33:59,230 --> 01:34:02,490
So you will probably hear this some.

1029
01:34:03,030 --> 01:34:13,010
The way that this relates in general to the comprehensive plan is that the concept here is to introduce density in appropriate places.

1030
01:34:13,010 --> 01:34:19,670
and what is appropriate for different people varies, and that's one of the roles that you guys

1031
01:34:19,670 --> 01:34:24,990
is the planning commission have is the decide where density is appropriate. In the comprehensive

1032
01:34:24,990 --> 01:34:31,130
plan, the statement really is the sort of the future growth areas are in areas surrounding the

1033
01:34:31,130 --> 01:34:39,170
city of Lancaster where there is access to water and sewer, and there's more of a kind of a baseline

1034
01:34:39,170 --> 01:34:46,830
density there. I think there's also a pressure not to have this type of more dense development

1035
01:34:46,830 --> 01:34:53,710
in Indian land because of concerns with traffic and schools and all of the growth-related issues

1036
01:34:53,710 --> 01:35:02,430
in Indian land. So it's my general understanding that these would be mapped somewhere generally

1037
01:35:02,430 --> 01:35:09,650
probably on the northern side of the city of Lancaster. You know, really the, the two different

1038
01:35:09,650 --> 01:35:18,090
districts are, have the same basic idea, but one of them has a little bit more of a safeguard.

1039
01:35:19,250 --> 01:35:24,570
So, you know, the first MFR district is basically your missing middle housing and it's due

1040
01:35:25,390 --> 01:35:30,070
plexus townhouses. I suspect those are the main things that you will see although we've gotten some

1041
01:35:30,070 --> 01:35:34,010
comments about developers that's specializing kind of in four

1042
01:35:34,010 --> 01:35:35,030
flexes.

1043
01:35:36,070 --> 01:35:37,550
So maybe you would see some of that.

1044
01:35:37,950 --> 01:35:38,650
I really don't know.

1045
01:35:39,330 --> 01:35:46,930
But those are the type of housing types that don't have the

1046
01:35:46,930 --> 01:35:50,390
density intensity that you would think of as traditional

1047
01:35:50,390 --> 01:35:51,390
multifamily.

1048
01:35:52,670 --> 01:35:54,990
It could be used on an infill basis,

1049
01:35:54,990 --> 01:36:01,570
also, you know, if you if you if you reasoned, especially dueplexes, I think have the largest,

1050
01:36:02,650 --> 01:36:10,970
you know, kind of infill potential. So MFRA is what I would call the safeguard district,

1051
01:36:11,810 --> 01:36:16,110
you know, so if you're going to like you were talking with the applicants earlier, you know,

1052
01:36:16,150 --> 01:36:21,210
well, we don't want you to be regional business because if you decide you're not going to be

1053
01:36:21,210 --> 01:36:24,390
is there's any more of a good bill to Walmart right here in the middle of the neighborhood, right?

1054
01:36:25,330 --> 01:36:26,470
And that's fair.

1055
01:36:27,170 --> 01:36:33,630
And so that's the concern I think with separating out MFRA that apartments are different

1056
01:36:33,630 --> 01:36:41,450
enough as they are developed now, based on the intensity of the use that separating out makes

1057
01:36:41,450 --> 01:36:41,930
some sense.

1058
01:36:42,150 --> 01:36:43,330
So that's kind of where we are.

1059
01:36:43,890 --> 01:36:49,910
And I think that this is kind of the piece that brings in some more market rate, portability,

1060
01:36:51,310 --> 01:37:10,770
You know, just the smaller footprint increased intensity, those are the kinds of marginal changes in the development of land that would create a significant decrease in the per unit price.

1061
01:37:11,730 --> 01:37:18,490
So this is a good strategy to bring in some more affordable housing.

1062
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:24,470
So the new business district, or are there any questions on that?

1063
01:37:25,040 --> 01:37:25,580
I've been realized that.

1064
01:37:26,360 --> 01:37:28,240
Okay. All right. So new business district,

1065
01:37:28,260 --> 01:37:35,120
business and technology district. This is really kind of replacing the professional business district, but

1066
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:40,310
you know, the concept is a little bit broader. So, you know, it's financial services and

1067
01:37:41,020 --> 01:37:46,340
professional offices, you know, it could be something like an office park, but it's much more

1068
01:37:46,340 --> 01:37:53,400
just office uses that would be more compatible with residential and retail uses.

1069
01:37:53,940 --> 01:37:58,540
So it's the kind of district that you could put, you know, basically next to a neighborhood

1070
01:37:59,100 --> 01:38:04,280
and not really notice significant impacts. Hopefully. Any questions on?

1071
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:09,320
All right. So

1072
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:16,260
the MX districts were very unpopular, maybe with everybody. Have you all done any MX district

1073
01:38:16,260 --> 01:38:28,670
Resonings lately at the so the developer meeting I mean we had like 40 developers and engineers in there and I ask him to show their hands if they had ever done one of these and only one person had

1074
01:38:29,990 --> 01:38:35,750
So it hasn't been really well used and I think that maybe that speaks in some ways to whether it's useful

1075
01:38:35,750 --> 01:38:41,970
but also there are lots of complaints that you know council was hesitant to use it because the densities exceeded their expectations

1076
01:38:43,430 --> 01:38:45,690
you know the

1077
01:38:45,690 --> 01:38:46,150
the building

1078
01:38:47,270 --> 01:38:54,430
the sighting of the buildings, it kind of doesn't match up with the auto oriented development

1079
01:38:54,430 --> 01:39:04,470
that you would think of as sort of conventional along Highway 521. And so we have after a lot of

1080
01:39:04,470 --> 01:39:10,490
discussion proposed a planned development district and this is just basically of vanilla planned

1081
01:39:10,490 --> 01:39:18,930
development district. It is something that the county had before the current UDO was adopted in 2016.

1082
01:39:20,010 --> 01:39:25,450
You know, first of all, it requires master plan. It requires two kinds of residential uses and a commercial use.

1083
01:39:26,510 --> 01:39:31,970
Outside of that, everything is on the table. So, you know, they can ask for unique height.

1084
01:39:34,070 --> 01:39:45,050
You know, but you're going to have standards that, you know, basically request higher design, both of the buildings and site design open space.

1085
01:39:46,490 --> 01:39:52,450
So this is really going to be the primary flexible development tool that the county can use.

1086
01:39:52,970 --> 01:39:57,090
It's going to be up for negotiation on just about every project.

1087
01:39:59,410 --> 01:40:12,230
One, not that we hear on this type of development, framework in general is that developers usually either specialize in residential or commercial, but not both.

1088
01:40:13,810 --> 01:40:18,010
And so the developers sort of don't like this. They may not want to use this as much.

1089
01:40:18,290 --> 01:40:26,090
I really don't know. We've gotten some comments that sort of indicate, you know, what are we supposed to do with the commercial? Can we lower the commercial percentage?

1090
01:40:26,090 --> 01:40:37,970
There is a percentage, it has to be at least 20% commercial, but you know, you can lower the percentage, but in general the South Carolina planning and abling act requires

1091
01:40:39,070 --> 01:40:42,230
these, the blending of these two uses in the same development.

1092
01:40:43,190 --> 01:40:46,970
And so you can't have just like a solely residential PD.

1093
01:40:48,150 --> 01:40:52,050
And that's, that's really what ideally I think the developers would like to see.

1094
01:40:52,050 --> 01:40:58,590
they would like, you know, the ability to do a master plan only PD with only residential.

1095
01:40:58,850 --> 01:41:02,190
That would that would hit a lot of checkboxes, right?

1096
01:41:02,930 --> 01:41:07,170
But that's not really what's allowed. And so that's not what we've proposed.

1097
01:41:08,750 --> 01:41:13,350
And you don't really know what the developments that you get are going to look like until you see them.

1098
01:41:13,890 --> 01:41:19,130
So, you know, I can't sketch one out. You know, it's going to be very site-specific. It's going to be

1099
01:41:19,130 --> 01:41:24,750
market driven. It's going to be driven by the experiences of the developer and other places.

1100
01:41:26,590 --> 01:41:32,650
But in general I think that this is a framework that most communities in South Carolina have

1101
01:41:33,890 --> 01:41:38,910
and nobody particularly likes it and nobody likes the other options that they've tried either.

1102
01:41:41,030 --> 01:41:49,110
So I wish I could say this was some great panacea but I think at least it will get you your

1103
01:41:49,110 --> 01:41:55,290
And it will give you some flexibility in places that you might want to have it. Any any questions on this?

1104
01:41:57,020 --> 01:41:58,660
About the contender.

1105
01:41:59,460 --> 01:42:01,120
Planetary plat, we just did.

1106
01:42:01,440 --> 01:42:02,680
It was very similar to this.

1107
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:06,840
Predominantly residential and had 20% commercial in it.

1108
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:07,480
Which one?

1109
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:08,900
The contender homes.

1110
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:10,500
Um, Katava Ridge.

1111
01:42:10,940 --> 01:42:11,280
Oh, yes.

1112
01:42:11,480 --> 01:42:13,760
It referred to call it was predominantly residential.

1113
01:42:13,900 --> 01:42:17,280
It had about the 20% commercial buried within it.

1114
01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:18,640
So similar to this.

1115
01:42:19,340 --> 01:42:20,600
It's under an old.

1116
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:29,920
PDD. Very old PDD. Is that what they have in Colombia and the, and I mean, to some of them.

1117
01:42:30,140 --> 01:42:35,000
Yeah. And the li of there and I love it. Everybody down there loves that.

1118
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:37,180
He's like back to their village. Yes.

1119
01:42:37,500 --> 01:42:37,560
Yes.

1120
01:42:37,920 --> 01:42:38,060
Yeah.

1121
01:42:38,840 --> 01:42:41,180
You mentioned that these aren't mapped in anything today.

1122
01:42:42,260 --> 01:42:45,260
Which, sorry, again, makes me think about BT.

1123
01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:47,460
What is BT mapped into anything?

1124
01:42:47,560 --> 01:42:48,100
It's not.

1125
01:42:48,100 --> 01:42:52,820
Is there conceptually, do we have an idea of what that would map into?

1126
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:56,540
What would it be, what are their existing zoning?

1127
01:42:56,820 --> 01:43:00,120
Do you think we think would be most well aligned with?

1128
01:43:00,780 --> 01:43:04,460
Well, so looking at the district description,

1129
01:43:05,820 --> 01:43:10,060
I'm really thinking that this would be appropriate more for road areas.

1130
01:43:13,670 --> 01:43:17,270
That's a little like zoning, is it more like more to be like,

1131
01:43:17,270 --> 01:43:22,150
And part of the reason is that I noticed on BT what we say it's conducive to be near residential.

1132
01:43:22,890 --> 01:43:25,230
Some of the bi-right permitted uses include manufacturing.

1133
01:43:26,130 --> 01:43:28,950
Like medical computer engineering, computer stuff.

1134
01:43:29,290 --> 01:43:33,110
That feels a little less conducive to being next to residential.

1135
01:43:33,670 --> 01:43:37,810
So I was trying to figure out what the thinking behind that was.

1136
01:43:37,870 --> 01:43:41,050
How do we get to that place where we thought that would be a good,

1137
01:43:41,050 --> 01:43:44,090
manufacturing would be a good to sit next to residential.

1138
01:43:44,090 --> 01:43:49,610
Let me look at the use table again, maybe that's been, so the district description is that

1139
01:43:49,610 --> 01:43:54,330
the business and technology district is established to accommodate employment generating

1140
01:43:54,330 --> 01:43:58,450
industries of regional and statewide importance, such as corporate headquarters, clean manufacturing

1141
01:43:58,450 --> 01:44:01,690
facilities, research and development facilities and financial services.

1142
01:44:02,650 --> 01:44:06,590
This specialized district also accommodates businesses and professional offices, office support

1143
01:44:06,590 --> 01:44:10,730
services, and similar uses that are generally compatible with nearby residential retail

1144
01:44:10,730 --> 01:44:11,250
and services.

1145
01:44:11,910 --> 01:44:16,290
That's the one that those two sentences conflict for me, right? I get that we say that

1146
01:44:16,290 --> 01:44:19,730
Manufacturing is in there and then we say it's compatible with nearby residential retail and service

1147
01:44:19,730 --> 01:44:24,470
So let me say clean manufacturing, so I think they were trying to limit

1148
01:44:25,030 --> 01:44:28,710
some of their buy right, but their buy right table gives them something

1149
01:44:29,750 --> 01:44:30,230
broader

1150
01:44:30,230 --> 01:44:36,110
All right, let's see. I'm pulling up the use table now now. It's on page

1151
01:44:38,950 --> 01:44:51,810
So the bi-right permitted uses artist studio, like manufacturing workshops, small alcohol production, computer and electronic products manufacturing.

1152
01:44:52,070 --> 01:44:56,390
I mean that could be that you're not going to have a little mom and pop electronic manufacturing.

1153
01:44:56,870 --> 01:44:59,970
That's the next page of the medical, I'm not sure if you're looking at the table or not.

1154
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:17,660
The next one, you have the medical equipment that supplies manufacturing permitted by right, you got pharmaceutical and medicine manufacturing by right, so there's a couple in there there, either R.D. R and D facilities, which I guess is deeper or enough, but also.

1155
01:45:17,880 --> 01:45:19,980
Program of to be small are enough to not be small.

1156
01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:28,960
Yeah, I mean, I'm really seeing these, this kind of being uses that would be on major arterials. I mean, I don't think it's going to be like, you know, the neighborhood business use.

1157
01:45:28,960 --> 01:45:32,800
Okay, that's why we're looking at where we're looking to map it into.

1158
01:45:33,100 --> 01:45:36,820
We don't think or we have a provision in there that limits those locations.

1159
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:43,380
There is there is no limitation on the location qualification for those.

1160
01:45:43,420 --> 01:45:50,960
To make this stronger is a help support your point. Should we consider adding that?

1161
01:45:55,540 --> 01:45:55,900
Okay.

1162
01:45:56,180 --> 01:45:59,240
So you've that make make that emotion when we go to those.

1163
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:01,020
You know, I'm trying to write.

1164
01:46:01,380 --> 01:46:01,500
Amen.

1165
01:46:01,660 --> 01:46:02,060
I was fast.

1166
01:46:02,220 --> 01:46:03,320
I kind of thank you.

1167
01:46:03,440 --> 01:46:03,540
Okay.

1168
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:04,320
I'm sorry to make you back.

1169
01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:05,580
When you said it wasn't mapped into anything,

1170
01:46:05,700 --> 01:46:07,100
then maybe think of those questions.

1171
01:46:07,460 --> 01:46:08,000
That's a good question.

1172
01:46:08,180 --> 01:46:08,540
Yeah.

1173
01:46:08,660 --> 01:46:10,820
I mean, that's considering if they're by right.

1174
01:46:11,180 --> 01:46:11,520
Right.

1175
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:14,780
And we have no location parameters around that.

1176
01:46:14,900 --> 01:46:15,560
That's a good catch.

1177
01:46:16,320 --> 01:46:16,620
Yep.

1178
01:46:16,660 --> 01:46:17,700
But all those.

1179
01:46:18,220 --> 01:46:19,840
This would be on a request base.

1180
01:46:19,840 --> 01:46:22,140
So it would be an applicant coming before you all

1181
01:46:22,140 --> 01:46:23,820
on the core account, so with the request,

1182
01:46:23,840 --> 01:46:24,980
the reason to go.

1183
01:46:25,740 --> 01:46:27,740
But that does certainly would not

1184
01:46:27,740 --> 01:46:30,000
be that we can put a statement in there

1185
01:46:30,000 --> 01:46:33,320
that either suggest location for it or it's a hard

1186
01:46:33,320 --> 01:46:35,860
location criteria like it has to be on

1187
01:46:35,860 --> 01:46:37,600
a arterial road, for example,

1188
01:46:37,980 --> 01:46:39,760
and that would be a qualified person.

1189
01:46:41,260 --> 01:46:43,540
Yeah, because once they reason, because they could come,

1190
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:45,280
they could bring the application to us like the trees

1191
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:47,140
service, right? And so hey, we're doing something small,

1192
01:46:47,140 --> 01:46:52,560
But once it's BT it's and they sell it it's by they don't bring that to us again. It's it's by right at that point

1193
01:47:06,890 --> 01:47:09,310
So highway corridor overlay is

1194
01:47:10,470 --> 01:47:11,870
one of our

1195
01:47:11,870 --> 01:47:15,370
kind of getting near the end of the major changes. So

1196
01:47:15,370 --> 01:47:20,590
You know right now. It's basically up in the Indian land area the concept has always been you know

1197
01:47:20,590 --> 01:47:24,150
It's sort of the front porch for a limestone county and

1198
01:47:24,950 --> 01:47:28,170
We want higher design standards there both in terms of

1199
01:47:29,150 --> 01:47:33,870
building finishes, but also site design, landscaping, etc.

1200
01:47:35,430 --> 01:47:44,950
So the goal here is to extend the highway corridor overlay all the way south on 521 to the northern city limit of the city of Lancaster.

1201
01:47:46,210 --> 01:47:54,510
And then also adding a highway 9 from the Katoba River to the western city limits of the city of Lancaster.

1202
01:47:54,510 --> 01:47:57,790
are interestingly, excluding industrial uses.

1203
01:47:59,070 --> 01:48:03,070
That's a big exclusion, though, because all of the land on Highway 9

1204
01:48:03,070 --> 01:48:04,390
is zoned in industrial.

1205
01:48:06,030 --> 01:48:09,250
And I think that there are within this buffer,

1206
01:48:09,250 --> 01:48:10,390
and I don't count.

1207
01:48:10,870 --> 01:48:12,550
My count is not completely accurate,

1208
01:48:12,550 --> 01:48:13,970
but something like six parcels.

1209
01:48:14,150 --> 01:48:17,490
This would apply to at one, and they're all around one intersection.

1210
01:48:19,590 --> 01:48:22,710
But those parcels could be re-zoned at simple,

1211
01:48:22,710 --> 01:48:29,790
as regional business, or something else other than, you know, industrial.

1212
01:48:31,590 --> 01:48:37,390
So, you know, I think that the general concept is to extend the highway corridor overlay

1213
01:48:37,390 --> 01:48:42,930
with the expectation that development will continue to push south

1214
01:48:42,930 --> 01:48:47,790
and that if you don't have the standards in place now, you know, I mean if you drive the stretch

1215
01:48:47,790 --> 01:48:55,010
it's circled in red maybe if you're going home that way tonight you know I mean 80% of it at

1216
01:48:55,010 --> 01:49:01,970
least is completely undeveloped right I mean so development will one day come it could be

1217
01:49:02,510 --> 01:49:08,470
five years it could be ten years it could be twenty five years but the goal is I think to have

1218
01:49:08,470 --> 01:49:17,540
the higher standards maintained all the way down the highway corridor really one of the primary tweaks

1219
01:49:18,340 --> 01:49:24,880
is increasing the distance between curb cuts above the SCDOT requirement, which I think is

1220
01:49:24,880 --> 01:49:33,600
400 feet, although their curb cut allowances are very, you know, site specific and project

1221
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:36,120
specific and speed specific and all kinds of other stuff.

1222
01:49:37,360 --> 01:49:42,840
But the general concept is, we'll improve the traffic flow by increasing the distance between

1223
01:49:42,840 --> 01:49:44,720
curb cuts to 600 feet.

1224
01:49:44,720 --> 01:49:54,540
that will require, you know, some working amongst the parcel owners to be able to, you know, get access for their land.

1225
01:49:55,380 --> 01:49:59,820
So I think that this is something that, you know, Council was particularly interested in.

1226
01:49:59,980 --> 01:50:02,520
I think that it's something that would benefit the citizens.

1227
01:50:02,980 --> 01:50:11,640
It may create some difficulties, and there is also an exception for situations where there are, you know, narrow lots,

1228
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:15,640
and there really isn't the opportunity for shared access.

1229
01:50:17,140 --> 01:50:22,460
It also is decreased the width of the highway corridor overlay buffer from 1,000 feet to 500 feet,

1230
01:50:22,540 --> 01:50:31,140
primarily because with the aesthetic goal of the overlay, 1,000 feet was just capturing

1231
01:50:31,140 --> 01:50:34,280
too many parcels that weren't on the corridor.

1232
01:50:34,280 --> 01:50:41,120
And so, at 500 feet, it's, you know, parcels that are within 500 feet or developed, you

1233
01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:46,280
know, you know, conjunction with or master planned with something that's within

1234
01:50:46,280 --> 01:50:52,580
that. And so, you know, in general, I think that it's a, it's a reasonable narrowing

1235
01:50:52,580 --> 01:50:53,480
of the buffer.

1236
01:50:55,600 --> 01:50:58,360
But, you know, we've heard kind of some pros and cons on that.

1237
01:50:58,800 --> 01:51:01,520
Any thoughts or questions on the highway corridor overlay?

1238
01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:10,920
And two things, one, I can't remember, will read decreasing the buffer on the entire highway corridor or just the new part.

1239
01:51:11,260 --> 01:51:12,040
The entire corridor.

1240
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:13,240
Yeah, that's why that's going to make sure.

1241
01:51:13,300 --> 01:51:23,740
And then secondly, I just had a thought, when we add the highway corridor going down nine, that means it's going to have a huge overlap with the airport overlay.

1242
01:51:23,740 --> 01:51:32,540
So which one's going to take precedents to airport or the highway corridor because I mean the airport's like all the way around on the north side of nine there?

1243
01:51:33,260 --> 01:51:37,120
Yes, so the airport overlay takes precedents over everything.

1244
01:51:37,420 --> 01:51:39,980
Okay, that's absolutely because the FAA, yep. Okay.

1245
01:51:40,660 --> 01:51:42,060
Yep, that's a good question to them.

1246
01:51:45,420 --> 01:51:52,000
So on the in the proposed video on the highway court. Sorry, did I jump in do anything else on the highway corridor?

1247
01:51:52,000 --> 01:52:01,340
It talks about, so, well, let me step back, in the proposed UDO, like in the old UDO, one of the things we say our state of goal is system-approved connectivity between streets.

1248
01:52:02,060 --> 01:52:13,220
In the proposed UDO, we actually talk about limiting the street connections, the stubs, to only the HCO. Why do we take that out of all the development?

1249
01:52:13,540 --> 01:52:19,360
We used to have it in an old development county wide. Now we say that that interconnectivity is only required in the HCO.

1250
01:52:19,360 --> 01:52:23,280
what prompted that change and how does that align with the idea

1251
01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:24,300
that we want to improve?

1252
01:52:24,360 --> 01:52:26,480
I get that you get places like Kershaw

1253
01:52:26,480 --> 01:52:28,240
where it doesn't make sense to go build a development

1254
01:52:28,240 --> 01:52:30,160
and stuff out to trees.

1255
01:52:30,940 --> 01:52:34,380
But on other parts of the county that are being developed more

1256
01:52:34,380 --> 01:52:37,080
actively, you're pushing all that traffic back

1257
01:52:37,080 --> 01:52:40,100
to all those thoroughfares, like where the neighborhood wall

1258
01:52:40,100 --> 01:52:43,400
marks going on Van Wacrode, instead of having a connection

1259
01:52:43,400 --> 01:52:46,100
through to the parish teeter, the library, all that stuff,

1260
01:52:46,360 --> 01:52:48,320
everyone's got to go back up to 521 and we're pushing all

1261
01:52:48,320 --> 01:52:51,260
Why did we take that out of limit to the HEO?

1262
01:52:51,800 --> 01:52:59,280
So that is a very good question and I would say that the answer is not a 100% satisfactory for anybody.

1263
01:53:00,880 --> 01:53:08,880
So let me digress and give you a little bit of history on how this kind of development framework was created.

1264
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:16,620
And so the original idea was supposed to be, you don't remember that there were these kind

1265
01:53:16,620 --> 01:53:22,360
of character areas in the comprehensive plan, like the northern and then central, greater

1266
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:24,760
lengthster and then southern, rural lengthster.

1267
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:30,480
So the general concept was that we were going to do separate developments standards for

1268
01:53:30,480 --> 01:53:31,700
each one of those areas.

1269
01:53:32,900 --> 01:53:37,900
And so under the, and basically, you know, you have to come up with developments standards

1270
01:53:37,900 --> 01:53:39,660
each one of these areas, which we did.

1271
01:53:40,300 --> 01:53:43,800
And so the highway corridor overlay became basically

1272
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:46,760
the northern Panhandle development standards,

1273
01:53:46,940 --> 01:53:49,020
which would include connectivity.

1274
01:53:50,420 --> 01:53:53,480
It would allow you the flexibility to require connectivity

1275
01:53:53,480 --> 01:53:56,580
in certain places, certain geographical parts of the county,

1276
01:53:56,820 --> 01:53:58,540
but not in rural parts of the county.

1277
01:53:58,680 --> 01:54:00,260
Maybe that's where it makes sense.

1278
01:54:02,300 --> 01:54:05,580
But it was fairly complicated, because now you

1279
01:54:05,580 --> 01:54:11,940
have, you know, basically this overlay on top of your base zoning district and possibly another

1280
01:54:11,940 --> 01:54:15,800
overlay that's going to define development standards.

1281
01:54:17,860 --> 01:54:25,140
So when we took that away and put it back with the highway corridor overlay, it seemed

1282
01:54:25,140 --> 01:54:29,920
like, at least on the committee, there were two primary concerns with connectivity.

1283
01:54:30,380 --> 01:54:32,840
Now, I'll say that I'm a big believer in connectivity.

1284
01:54:32,840 --> 01:54:41,080
It's the way that you ensure that there is a ability of people to get to the places

1285
01:54:41,080 --> 01:54:43,740
where they need to be, or where they think they want to be.

1286
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:57,820
So the two full concerns were changes in grade on the land, and with contemporary, cut-and-fill,

1287
01:54:57,820 --> 01:55:04,100
development practices, you end up with really big retaining wall on one end of a site,

1288
01:55:04,100 --> 01:55:05,780
And maybe that's a constraint.

1289
01:55:07,160 --> 01:55:10,240
So there was a dissatisfaction with kind of the suitability

1290
01:55:10,240 --> 01:55:11,480
of the land for connectivity.

1291
01:55:12,800 --> 01:55:17,560
And I think the other one was a concern, you know,

1292
01:55:17,620 --> 01:55:20,420
basically that this is the connectivity

1293
01:55:20,420 --> 01:55:23,960
is something that's maybe too hard to require other places

1294
01:55:24,380 --> 01:55:25,120
for developers.

1295
01:55:25,660 --> 01:55:30,180
And it to build the extra stubs to require connections

1296
01:55:30,180 --> 01:55:36,560
to the stubs, you know, people do like living in these kind of little enclaves, some people

1297
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:36,960
do.

1298
01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:43,700
I don't live in a little enclave, but, you know, I'm a city planner, so maybe I'm different.

1299
01:55:44,840 --> 01:55:49,240
But I think that that's really kind of the, that was where the discussion went.

1300
01:55:49,700 --> 01:55:55,020
It's not a, it's not completely satisfactory because, you know, you have to plan for connectivity

1301
01:55:55,020 --> 01:55:58,020
now to have connectivity in 25 years.

1302
01:55:58,440 --> 01:56:07,600
And so this is an important question, and I think that if you all have, you know, different thoughts or feedback, this is your time.

1303
01:56:08,580 --> 01:56:19,080
We've been living under that standards, right? So I, I guess my challenge is I, I hear what I'm trying to assimilate in my brain is, okay, if it's too hard how we've been doing it for so long.

1304
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:24,460
and do we, was it more than just a national concern,

1305
01:56:24,620 --> 01:56:26,300
or representative concerns, or were people saying,

1306
01:56:26,420 --> 01:56:28,100
look, this prevented us from developing here.

1307
01:56:28,340 --> 01:56:29,400
We couldn't actually do this.

1308
01:56:29,700 --> 01:56:32,260
We couldn't make these changes because I got it.

1309
01:56:32,340 --> 01:56:33,320
We great a certain way.

1310
01:56:33,860 --> 01:56:34,540
We've got variants.

1311
01:56:34,780 --> 01:56:35,800
We can only grade our property.

1312
01:56:35,960 --> 01:56:37,000
We can't grade the neighboring property.

1313
01:56:37,140 --> 01:56:38,240
We're a fifth connectivity, too.

1314
01:56:38,300 --> 01:56:40,720
So we might be dropping off a cliff or going into a hill,

1315
01:56:41,480 --> 01:56:43,100
or we've been under this paradigm.

1316
01:56:43,500 --> 01:56:44,340
It's not a new paradigm.

1317
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:47,200
If we were going the other way, I would understand it.

1318
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:55,260
we're in an existing paradigm that says we do this and have been doing it. So are there? Are there? Is there

1319
01:56:55,260 --> 01:56:59,360
anecdotal evidence of this? Is there a representative evidence of this? We're developers come back and

1320
01:56:59,360 --> 01:57:03,900
said, hey, we can't even develop this land because of this. This is why we can't do it. You're almost

1321
01:57:03,900 --> 01:57:09,300
to take things in some way. I would say it best I have a second hand anecdotal

1322
01:57:09,780 --> 01:57:14,500
understanding of this. Okay. That's fair. I just can't turn in. Yeah, please.

1323
01:57:14,500 --> 01:57:34,520
So, I mean, I was one of the biggest advocates for connectivity during our ad hoc meetings and I, you know, my example I kept giving because we have private roads, we need to keep connectivity because it's only problematic because we can't force those connections later because those are not county owned roads.

1324
01:57:35,240 --> 01:57:40,780
So, I don't remember us deciding to remove the connectivity from the other districts.

1325
01:57:41,040 --> 01:57:45,520
I mean, maybe I just overlooked, and I don't remember us changing that.

1326
01:57:45,700 --> 01:57:48,240
So, I'm surprised that that's in there.

1327
01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:53,240
Honestly, I mean, the example that I kept giving is an Indian land right now.

1328
01:57:53,400 --> 01:57:56,660
You can't drive from the new target to the new Costco.

1329
01:57:57,380 --> 01:58:03,620
You can see the connection, but they don't actually connect, because we didn't force that and

1330
01:58:03,620 --> 01:58:08,940
have it in here. So I'm happy that it remains in the highway corridor overlay that I am concerned

1331
01:58:08,940 --> 01:58:16,280
that that was removed from the other zoning districts or outside of an overlay. So I do

1332
01:58:16,280 --> 01:58:22,400
think we need to go back and revisit that conversation because whether it's difficult for developers

1333
01:58:22,400 --> 01:58:29,140
or not the entire goal of this rewrite for my understanding of taking an active part on the

1334
01:58:29,140 --> 01:58:32,240
that was to grow those minimum standards, not make it easier.

1335
01:58:33,480 --> 01:58:34,420
I think that's reasonable.

1336
01:58:43,670 --> 01:58:47,290
So there was one other thing that we talked about with connectivity

1337
01:58:47,290 --> 01:58:50,250
that is a little bit of a wrinkle too.

1338
01:58:50,530 --> 01:58:55,090
So if you have public roads and you're requiring access,

1339
01:58:56,890 --> 01:58:59,690
then they're concerned with taking everything else,

1340
01:58:59,710 --> 01:59:02,830
but if you are being required to maintain private

1341
01:59:02,830 --> 01:59:11,610
and require connectivity, which allows non-residents of that neighborhood to use your roads,

1342
01:59:12,410 --> 01:59:17,430
you know, basically you're requiring public use, which could be a taking. So there could be some issues there.

1343
01:59:19,490 --> 01:59:25,170
I think it's a concern. They are public roads. They're just privately maintained, right?

1344
01:59:25,890 --> 01:59:31,690
I mean, all of our roads now with the new development or private, or am I misunderstaffed, please chime in.

1345
01:59:31,690 --> 01:59:32,990
maybe I'm not understanding something.

1346
01:59:33,170 --> 01:59:34,350
That's a million dollar question.

1347
01:59:35,090 --> 01:59:39,190
So if somebody wanted to develop a lot or develop a tract

1348
01:59:39,580 --> 01:59:42,270
and have private roads with gated access only,

1349
01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:45,040
would they be able to?

1350
01:59:47,890 --> 01:59:50,690
Well, the question I've always had is some city

1351
01:59:50,690 --> 01:59:51,910
coming out of Carolina.

1352
01:59:54,720 --> 01:59:58,010
The question I've always had at some city

1353
01:59:58,660 --> 01:59:59,970
is that I thought those...

1354
02:00:00,920 --> 02:00:09,800
We're public roads, and yet, for years, they've tried to have a gate system, which has cost them thousands and thousands of dollars,

1355
02:00:09,940 --> 02:00:22,820
because it lasts for about a month. But I've always questioned why that is, is that a private road? Did they make an exception for that one little part, and all the rest are public?

1356
02:00:22,820 --> 02:00:31,480
But to keep interlopers out coming from Carolina commons out through their neighborhood and they have put up gates.

1357
02:00:33,040 --> 02:00:40,320
So it's an interesting question. Can people go on private public roads if they don't live in that neighborhood?

1358
02:00:41,300 --> 02:00:51,700
And can you have 95% privately maintained or public maintained and then say we want to maintain this part so that we can say it's gated?

1359
02:00:54,600 --> 02:01:07,200
As the jurisdiction that is enforcing these rules, you can require the connections, but if you require access, that's when you risk a taking.

1360
02:01:09,220 --> 02:01:20,860
And so at the point that as the county you're making these rules, the property owner's association could respond in whatever way they would like.

1361
02:01:20,860 --> 02:01:26,200
I think, you know, they could leave them open to people, or they could try to set up a gate system.

1362
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:31,260
I don't particularly see anything that would stop them from putting up gates.

1363
02:01:33,060 --> 02:01:44,120
Other than fire access, which there is a specific standard in here that requires special fire access privileges or gates.

1364
02:01:47,950 --> 02:01:52,570
I would say it's an open question and a area of significant concern.

1365
02:01:53,170 --> 02:02:01,150
Is something worth looking into if you're going to require connectivity, but then they can put up a gate than what good did that connectivity do?

1366
02:02:02,010 --> 02:02:04,030
I think I think we need to look into that.

1367
02:02:04,230 --> 02:02:09,970
It's making me wonder if this is a, I don't know, a legal question.

1368
02:02:10,390 --> 02:02:14,390
Like, how can we require private roads, but limit access?

1369
02:02:14,770 --> 02:02:18,550
I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't know the right answer.

1370
02:02:23,560 --> 02:02:28,600
Are there other counties that do the you guys have seen that have something similar like this?

1371
02:02:28,640 --> 02:02:29,480
How do they manage this?

1372
02:02:30,260 --> 02:02:33,460
I mean, it's almost like they need another road turning off of the private road.

1373
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:38,700
But obviously, then you're talking about adding a cost that's the owner of some burdensome.

1374
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:42,620
Honestly, is this the limbo of us having private road?

1375
02:02:42,880 --> 02:02:43,240
It is.

1376
02:02:43,240 --> 02:02:44,560
Or it's their privately maintained.

1377
02:02:44,900 --> 02:02:47,900
This is kind of the, is it the burden we bear for making that choice?

1378
02:02:49,100 --> 02:02:55,500
So, in terms of thinking about other counties that struggle with this, everybody kind of struggles

1379
02:02:55,500 --> 02:03:03,260
with connectivity in a conceptual way or both, but I think that the, the Lancaster County's

1380
02:03:03,260 --> 02:03:11,400
problems are particular and specific because of this private road being the exclusive development

1381
02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:12,080
strategy.

1382
02:03:13,020 --> 02:03:18,000
You know, I mean, so there are places where there are private roads, but that's almost always

1383
02:03:18,000 --> 02:03:19,400
is the option of the developer.

1384
02:03:20,320 --> 02:03:23,020
And so if they want to dedicate their roads to the public,

1385
02:03:23,140 --> 02:03:24,940
then they have to follow those rules.

1386
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:27,500
But if they want to maintain private roads,

1387
02:03:27,620 --> 02:03:29,080
they can put up gates and do everything

1388
02:03:29,080 --> 02:03:30,920
you would expect with private roads.

1389
02:03:32,040 --> 02:03:34,640
Requiring private roads is part of development.

1390
02:03:35,340 --> 02:03:37,760
I think this is kind of the other side of that coin.

1391
02:03:38,260 --> 02:03:41,020
We have one side of it that comes with the other side, too.

1392
02:03:42,560 --> 02:03:42,980
That's helpful.

1393
02:03:45,290 --> 02:03:46,110
Thank you.

1394
02:03:53,910 --> 02:03:54,990
It's probably going to go forward.

1395
02:04:00,280 --> 02:04:01,780
But that's a great trick.

1396
02:04:05,850 --> 02:04:08,130
All right, so there is a significant update

1397
02:04:08,130 --> 02:04:11,690
that the flood hazard regulations, really the feedback

1398
02:04:11,690 --> 02:04:16,090
that we got at the very beginning was that stormwater

1399
02:04:16,090 --> 02:04:19,130
and flood control are all mixed up in the same chapter

1400
02:04:19,130 --> 02:04:21,510
and that they don't really make a lot of sense

1401
02:04:21,510 --> 02:04:22,770
and they need a total rewrite.

1402
02:04:24,330 --> 02:04:26,630
So we kind of went around for a couple of years

1403
02:04:26,630 --> 02:04:30,810
on whether the flood control and stormwater should be in the UDO

1404
02:04:30,810 --> 02:04:37,430
they should be in separate chapters. In general, the preference of staff mainly for compliance was

1405
02:04:37,430 --> 02:04:42,350
to have them as standalone ordinances with separate definitions and separate enforcement authority.

1406
02:04:43,810 --> 02:04:50,150
Mainly for, and that's why I'm mentioning it with the flood control, so the staff elected to go

1407
02:04:50,150 --> 02:04:55,590
with the state's model ordinance. I don't know if you all are familiar with the way that, you know,

1408
02:04:55,590 --> 02:05:01,910
this kind of works for rating communities for flood hazards, but in general, you know,

1409
02:05:02,030 --> 02:05:07,490
FEMA rates people for flood insurance rates based on a number of factors.

1410
02:05:07,590 --> 02:05:14,830
One of which is the jurisdictions compliance with a certain set of development rules that

1411
02:05:14,830 --> 02:05:17,470
relate to the development in the flood hazard areas.

1412
02:05:18,250 --> 02:05:23,910
And so, you know, if you're trying to get a legal compliance review, it is easiest if you

1413
02:05:23,910 --> 02:05:26,970
have something like the state model ordinance and a standalone ordinance.

1414
02:05:27,470 --> 02:05:29,570
So that's what this is going with.

1415
02:05:29,690 --> 02:05:33,430
It creates an entirely new chapter for flood hazard.

1416
02:05:34,850 --> 02:05:38,230
And so I think that this will be something that will

1417
02:05:38,230 --> 02:05:43,150
a help with your compliance so that somebody in Columbia

1418
02:05:43,150 --> 02:05:46,510
will be able to look at this ordinance and say, aha, this works.

1419
02:05:48,090 --> 02:05:51,370
But also it will more clearly protect the county's residents

1420
02:05:51,370 --> 02:05:52,810
from flood hazard.

1421
02:05:57,930 --> 02:06:05,690
All right, and so then this is really the last substantive topic that we have on the major list.

1422
02:06:06,890 --> 02:06:19,410
And this one is the one I would say that is the most influx of the conversations that I hear with different folks in the county, some of y'all on this committee commission.

1423
02:06:19,410 --> 02:06:28,410
some members of county council, staff, everybody is interested in these two things to some greater or lesser extent.

1424
02:06:29,910 --> 02:06:33,950
So they really combine and tie into each other.

1425
02:06:34,470 --> 02:06:41,230
So the first one is commercial subdivisions and the second is, for minor subdivisions, what infrastructure would you require?

1426
02:06:41,590 --> 02:06:47,370
And how do you set the threshold for what is a minor subdivision versus not?

1427
02:06:48,610 --> 02:06:57,170
So commercial subdivisions, what the UDO proposes is, so currently if it's, you know, up

1428
02:06:57,170 --> 02:07:02,870
minor subdivision, five, lots, no public streets, currently it's reviewed by staff.

1429
02:07:04,850 --> 02:07:14,230
There was some dissatisfaction on the ad hoc committee with commercial subdivisions being reviewed

1430
02:07:14,230 --> 02:07:21,270
by staff only and they would like you as the planning commission to review what would otherwise

1431
02:07:21,270 --> 02:07:24,010
be a minor subdivision if it is commercial.

1432
02:07:25,230 --> 02:07:33,010
That presents some problems because as you know when you are doing a subdivision, you may not

1433
02:07:33,010 --> 02:07:40,650
really know what the use is going to be, you know, and so I think that the way that it is

1434
02:07:40,650 --> 02:07:48,830
phrase now is non-residential subdivisions, which I think captures more than just whatever the

1435
02:07:48,830 --> 02:07:55,550
concern was with maybe larger commercial developments. I'm not, I'm not 100% sure what the

1436
02:07:55,550 --> 02:08:03,870
exact concern is. And so, you know, I can see different criteria for qualification, zoning

1437
02:08:03,870 --> 02:08:10,510
districts could be one, you know, and I think then the other question would be, so one is

1438
02:08:10,510 --> 02:08:15,110
kind of like capturing what we're trying to avoid. Maybe the first question is, what are

1439
02:08:15,110 --> 02:08:22,750
we really trying to avoid? The second one is, how do we capture all of that? And then the third

1440
02:08:22,750 --> 02:08:30,130
one is, would you as the planning commission want to review commercial subdivisions if it's just

1441
02:08:30,130 --> 02:08:37,390
you know, two out parcels and a main parcel. I don't know. So staff had done some

1442
02:08:37,390 --> 02:08:43,670
analysis of this. Did you say it was 20? In the last year you would have had 20

1443
02:08:43,670 --> 02:08:46,130
additional subdivision flat reviews.

1444
02:08:48,510 --> 02:08:51,430
So that's kind of, what are y'all's thoughts on

1445
02:08:52,270 --> 02:08:57,450
what the issues with commercial subdivisions are and how this fits in?

1446
02:08:57,450 --> 02:08:57,710
I

1447
02:09:05,680 --> 02:09:06,920
have to be the bad guy.

1448
02:09:09,920 --> 02:09:16,780
Yeah, it is, we did highly discuss this at the ad hoc meetings and stuff.

1449
02:09:18,360 --> 02:09:26,580
And part of the reason why myself and several others did not want to leave minor subdivisions

1450
02:09:26,580 --> 02:09:32,020
just at the planning staff review is that we felt that there were some things that got

1451
02:09:32,020 --> 02:09:37,600
passed through that technically didn't meet the UDO and we were trying to make sure there was

1452
02:09:37,600 --> 02:09:43,480
another set of eyes looking at things to make sure we didn't pass things that probably

1453
02:09:43,480 --> 02:09:44,760
shouldn't have been passed.

1454
02:09:45,680 --> 02:09:52,720
And it should also be noted that it wasn't, it was council members on the ad hoc committee

1455
02:09:52,720 --> 02:09:55,420
that brought this recommendation.

1456
02:09:55,760 --> 02:09:56,520
Three times.

1457
02:09:56,800 --> 02:09:57,500
Three different meetings.

1458
02:09:57,500 --> 02:09:58,340
Great meetings.

1459
02:09:58,480 --> 02:09:58,660
Absolutely.

1460
02:10:00,280 --> 02:10:01,500
It wasn't us.

1461
02:10:02,720 --> 02:10:08,020
And so, in kind of helping me understand and interpret it, you know, if you were going

1462
02:10:08,020 --> 02:10:13,360
to come up with a applicability criteria for this, would you pick a dis-wjpick zoning

1463
02:10:13,360 --> 02:10:13,920
districts?

1464
02:10:14,200 --> 02:10:15,520
Can I just be blunt?

1465
02:10:15,900 --> 02:10:16,460
Can I be blunt?

1466
02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:17,300
Okay.

1467
02:10:18,200 --> 02:10:26,520
Speaking candidly, we unanimously denied a large commercial neighborhood that then was approved

1468
02:10:26,520 --> 02:10:36,320
under a minor commercial neighborhood that has created larger ongoing problems, which is

1469
02:10:36,320 --> 02:10:42,060
why Council self-fit to add that, just as an extra set of eyes to prevent that from happening

1470
02:10:42,060 --> 02:10:42,740
in the future.

1471
02:10:43,640 --> 02:10:57,140
So, there's not a work around for developers to still achieve something that was already

1472
02:10:59,380 --> 02:11:01,500
Like general business and regional business?

1473
02:11:02,140 --> 02:11:04,160
They were her business in general business.

1474
02:11:04,880 --> 02:11:06,780
I know it was one of those.

1475
02:11:08,200 --> 02:11:11,290
I mean,

1476
02:11:14,030 --> 02:11:15,590
we definitely want to solve this problem.

1477
02:11:16,030 --> 02:11:17,670
And I want to make sure that we understand that.

1478
02:11:18,230 --> 02:11:18,670
Absolutely.

1479
02:11:19,330 --> 02:11:20,910
Because I know we talked about it a lot.

1480
02:11:21,650 --> 02:11:22,630
But it's like, oh, well.

1481
02:11:23,010 --> 02:11:24,010
That's why it was a question.

1482
02:11:24,230 --> 02:11:25,050
It's going to be commercial.

1483
02:11:25,250 --> 02:11:27,810
We have to have the planning commission review, which is fine.

1484
02:11:27,810 --> 02:11:37,810
You know, we can certainly structure it that way, but I want to make sure that we're getting all over the development or views that you want and not any of the ones that you don't.

1485
02:11:38,530 --> 02:11:45,790
Because right now, you know, the way the broadest version of grafting non-residential would include like agriculture, right?

1486
02:11:45,790 --> 02:11:54,930
Like if you're going to split your 200 acre ag land with your brother, you'd have to come in front of the planning commission for that.

1487
02:11:55,510 --> 02:12:01,530
Which I don't think was the intent, and it's why I'm bringing it up and asking what the intent really is.

1488
02:12:01,650 --> 02:12:03,690
Any other thoughts or feedback to this?

1489
02:12:03,730 --> 02:12:12,290
That's the first time I thought about doing it by zoning districts, and then that way we wouldn't have to.

1490
02:12:12,330 --> 02:12:20,130
Well, applicants wouldn't have to apply for stuff, and we wouldn't have to look at every single every district that has commercial or office.

1491
02:12:22,900 --> 02:12:24,560
And what you're asking is,

1492
02:12:24,780 --> 02:12:25,740
correctly if I'm wrong,

1493
02:12:26,120 --> 02:12:28,980
do we want to consider splitting up commercial law

1494
02:12:28,980 --> 02:12:30,600
comes to the planning commission,

1495
02:12:30,760 --> 02:12:32,140
but maybe residential doesn't,

1496
02:12:32,400 --> 02:12:34,240
or maybe some types of residential don't,

1497
02:12:34,280 --> 02:12:35,600
or things, is that what you're actually asking?

1498
02:12:35,820 --> 02:12:36,660
It's what I haven't thought of that.

1499
02:12:37,400 --> 02:12:38,560
I've never thought of the agriculture,

1500
02:12:38,860 --> 02:12:39,480
for example, either.

1501
02:12:40,260 --> 02:12:41,680
Yeah, and the next piece is,

1502
02:12:41,680 --> 02:12:43,120
you know, what is a minor subdivision?

1503
02:12:43,620 --> 02:12:44,920
And so we're going to hit that too,

1504
02:12:45,360 --> 02:12:46,680
but, you know, commercial subdivisions,

1505
02:12:47,100 --> 02:12:48,860
it's almost like saying,

1506
02:12:48,860 --> 02:12:52,660
Commercial subdivisions cannot be minor subdivisions

1507
02:12:54,830 --> 02:12:57,190
subject of the staff approval only process

1508
02:12:57,190 --> 02:13:01,210
Which if and if that's the desire we can certainly do that

1509
02:13:02,570 --> 02:13:07,910
And yeah, because minor subdivisions don't come to the planning commission right so if you made them not minor subdivisions

1510
02:13:08,950 --> 02:13:10,890
It'll be forced to go to the planning commission

1511
02:13:13,380 --> 02:13:16,300
Which it sounds like you all are in favor of so we can

1512
02:13:17,240 --> 02:13:22,960
For the commercial ones I like I said I know we've got in this county we have a lot of

1513
02:13:22,980 --> 02:13:28,100
I'd like a bit of a word residential, minor subdivisions,

1514
02:13:28,280 --> 02:13:31,420
yours like family parcels, divvying up and stuff like that.

1515
02:13:31,800 --> 02:13:35,040
And then we've had a lot of conversations on not making

1516
02:13:35,040 --> 02:13:38,640
family people have to come in and put in a road

1517
02:13:38,640 --> 02:13:41,720
and all this other stuff if we can find some way

1518
02:13:41,720 --> 02:13:45,520
so that it's still accessible by fire and EMS and stuff.

1519
02:13:46,300 --> 02:13:49,940
So, yeah, we've got to find that middle ground.

1520
02:13:51,360 --> 02:13:55,500
So that really brings up the next topic, and this is something that we've talked about with

1521
02:13:55,500 --> 02:14:00,820
staff a lot since the ad hoc committee kind of wrapped up its work, which is minor

1522
02:14:00,820 --> 02:14:03,680
subdivision infrastructure and road access.

1523
02:14:06,160 --> 02:14:12,540
So in the ad hoc UDO committee meetings, you know, so the ones, let's say from November

1524
02:14:12,540 --> 02:14:18,880
to March, we didn't participate in, and so I've just been able to listen to the audio

1525
02:14:18,880 --> 02:14:19,380
recordings.

1526
02:14:22,170 --> 02:14:27,550
Since, you know, we started working again like in April, I guess. We have had

1527
02:14:27,550 --> 02:14:34,410
a lot of conversations about minor subdivisions and what kind of infrastructure to require

1528
02:14:34,410 --> 02:14:42,070
gravel, fire access road, you know, what is it? And in one of the meetings that we were not at,

1529
02:14:42,070 --> 02:14:52,730
The staff draft for subdivision infrastructure required a 50-foot easement for minor subdivisions.

1530
02:14:53,710 --> 02:14:59,970
With I think the goal being that that was much more on par with what you would need.

1531
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:16,380
Develop a full road down the road if you needed to, but the committee really pushed back hard on that and there were some negotiations, you know, it's like some members of the committee wanted just 25 feet, which is what it is now.

1532
02:15:17,540 --> 02:15:28,900
And so there was a kind of a general compromise of 30 feet and there was a question of whether there was enough room on either side for utilities, for drainage.

1533
02:15:32,640 --> 02:15:43,100
But the issue really is still there and the rewrite has not solved the problems, but it has solved at least one problem.

1534
02:15:43,700 --> 02:15:53,360
So the problem that it has solved is that we've built in a design standard to meet the fire codes, fire apparatus access rate.

1535
02:15:53,360 --> 02:16:02,040
And so at the very least, you know, there are going to be some costs, for example, if you

1536
02:16:02,040 --> 02:16:07,040
have to cross a creek, you would have to have a bridge that would be able to carry like

1537
02:16:07,040 --> 02:16:16,380
a 75,000 pound fire truck, okay, so, you know, there could be some significant costs,

1538
02:16:16,380 --> 02:16:27,860
But it does leave open, you know, kind of these inter-property owner, hat-fueled versus

1539
02:16:27,860 --> 02:16:33,200
McCoy feuds about who uses the road and who pays for the road and people put

1540
02:16:33,200 --> 02:16:37,160
in, incis up in the middle of a road and all kinds of stuff like that.

1541
02:16:37,560 --> 02:16:41,300
It is another subset of problems associated with private roads.

1542
02:16:42,340 --> 02:16:54,260
Because the simplest way to do this is just the qualification for minor subdivision versus not is if you said you can have a minor subdivision if you have access to a public road

1543
02:16:54,260 --> 02:16:56,660
That's the way most people do it

1544
02:16:56,660 --> 02:17:01,320
So like if you've got the big parcel this is this is the road this is the parcel

1545
02:17:01,320 --> 02:17:04,660
I want to give my grandson this parcel

1546
02:17:04,660 --> 02:17:06,320
He's on the road

1547
02:17:06,320 --> 02:17:12,240
So he great. I want to give another one right here. He's also on the road. I get up to five of those.

1548
02:17:12,680 --> 02:17:17,780
They have to be on the road though. Now, if I want to, what if I want to give him this piece back here?

1549
02:17:17,820 --> 02:17:22,040
That isn't on the road. It's on the creek. It's real nice piece property. It's got a pretty view.

1550
02:17:22,140 --> 02:17:25,900
And it's got the creek. You can go fishing. But now you've got to build this road.

1551
02:17:26,360 --> 02:17:33,140
Well, okay. So that creates problems. If it's just grandpa and grandson maybe not, but now grandson

1552
02:17:33,140 --> 02:17:39,040
and sells it to somebody else or he gets divorced and re-dies and his wife remarry.

1553
02:17:39,120 --> 02:17:46,440
Somebody else, and now the guy's just very unhappy that his near-do well, grandson's wife is

1554
02:17:46,440 --> 02:17:48,620
shacked up with some dude.

1555
02:17:48,940 --> 02:17:52,260
Anyway, you can see how this gets unpleasant, pretty quickly.

1556
02:17:53,820 --> 02:17:56,780
I have personally experienced it, but it is no fun.

1557
02:18:00,580 --> 02:18:06,200
You know, and it's the kind of thing that you can try to write around avoiding worst-case scenarios.

1558
02:18:08,540 --> 02:18:12,880
But, you know, trying to avoid those problems creates a lot more cost on the front end.

1559
02:18:13,360 --> 02:18:18,520
And so, you know, if you make them build a road to the county road standards,

1560
02:18:19,200 --> 02:18:22,680
I mean, it's like millions of dollars if you want to build it all the way back here to the creek.

1561
02:18:22,680 --> 02:18:25,000
And so maybe you don't want to do that.

1562
02:18:25,480 --> 02:18:31,400
But so I think the question really is this kind of combined question of, what do you want

1563
02:18:31,400 --> 02:18:33,580
to set the threshold for minor subdivisions?

1564
02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:40,520
And what access do you think is necessary, but to ensure, you know, the current safety of

1565
02:18:40,520 --> 02:18:50,490
the residents, but also kind of the long term, I would say, you know, interaction and safety

1566
02:18:50,490 --> 02:18:56,870
and good, you know, neighborly relations between all these people that live off of these easements.

1567
02:18:58,690 --> 02:19:05,230
There may be poorly defined and, you know, poorly clarified about who has rights, etc.

1568
02:19:05,990 --> 02:19:11,370
Especially the requirement that you would all have to jointly maintain the property.

1569
02:19:12,250 --> 02:19:19,290
You could require an HOA to own that, but that also would set up an extra level of expense for

1570
02:19:19,290 --> 02:19:23,950
Folks that maybe you're trying to set up a subdivision that is less expensive to set up

1571
02:19:25,230 --> 02:19:30,390
So questions or thoughts on on that kind of general topic, which is sort of a mess

1572
02:19:30,390 --> 02:19:34,610
And I'm sorry to throw it on you all like this, but that's where we are

1573
02:19:34,610 --> 02:19:42,600
My concern whenever a family comes to us and my that's off-spoken. Yes

1574
02:19:44,120 --> 02:19:51,000
My question always is when families come to us and it's very hard to turn down a family

1575
02:19:51,020 --> 02:20:01,220
But once they get something granted that we wouldn't grant perhaps to a regular subdivision or a regular property owner,

1576
02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:09,540
they may say it's going to stay in the family for years, but we've handed them a gold mine by giving them something

1577
02:20:09,540 --> 02:20:18,860
because their family and then they could sell it to a developer any time and then the developer

1578
02:20:18,860 --> 02:20:23,360
doesn't have to do anymore because it was granted to that family

1579
02:20:28,800 --> 02:20:31,860
but they come in the

1580
02:20:31,860 --> 02:20:39,380
guys of family and usually it is a true sincere family situation but once we grant something

1581
02:20:39,380 --> 02:20:46,140
It is granted no matter who owns it and if they flip it and someone approaches them and says,

1582
02:20:46,480 --> 02:20:53,420
go get this done and then we'll purchase your property for X amount of money. Then we're done.

1583
02:20:54,080 --> 02:20:55,960
We have no more say over it.

1584
02:20:58,520 --> 02:21:01,640
And my biggest concern is just making sure every single one of the

1585
02:21:01,640 --> 02:21:09,520
has a road that fire and EMS can get in there if there's an emergency.

1586
02:21:11,080 --> 02:21:15,640
That's how I remember the conversation going that it steered more around access to

1587
02:21:16,180 --> 02:21:21,880
safety response and then also making sure that that road could handle

1588
02:21:23,200 --> 02:21:29,800
what a fire truck would need to not damage the fire truck because we learned that those are

1589
02:21:29,800 --> 02:21:31,760
Not cheap.

1590
02:21:35,970 --> 02:21:37,350
What drove us?

1591
02:21:38,550 --> 02:21:42,510
I imagine as we went through the changes, it was about enhancement improvement, expansion,

1592
02:21:42,650 --> 02:21:43,210
those things.

1593
02:21:43,610 --> 02:21:48,030
What was it that actually drove even looking at this element of the EDO?

1594
02:21:48,390 --> 02:21:50,190
47 different opinions.

1595
02:21:52,070 --> 02:21:54,250
Because we had 47 different incidents.

1596
02:21:54,730 --> 02:21:55,370
Like that kind of thing.

1597
02:21:55,550 --> 02:21:56,290
Like through the time.

1598
02:21:56,630 --> 02:22:00,830
Because everybody had examples of all these different things we've talked about.

1599
02:22:00,830 --> 02:22:07,990
So, yeah, I mean, it was, yeah, that's the one that I didn't realize we had that much of a problem, but I'm obviously novelist.

1600
02:22:08,450 --> 02:22:15,870
So, one thing that a lot of jurisdictions have, I'll say this is kind of a disclaimer that almost

1601
02:22:16,450 --> 02:22:22,290
two or one find unsatisfactory in its own different way is some type of family subdivision.

1602
02:22:22,990 --> 02:22:29,670
And so this, the minor subdivision that Lancaster County has now is works in some ways

1603
02:22:29,670 --> 02:22:30,970
like a family subdivision.

1604
02:22:31,130 --> 02:22:34,310
It's intended to work in some ways like a family subdivision.

1605
02:22:34,450 --> 02:22:38,990
In general, a family subdivision, and I don't think you have had it in living memory,

1606
02:22:39,210 --> 02:22:44,830
would basically be something like, there is some degree of kinship that you define.

1607
02:22:45,070 --> 02:22:47,830
It could be usually up to maybe grandparents.

1608
02:22:47,830 --> 02:22:51,670
I've seen grandparents and grandchildren, and usually not your third cousin once removed.

1609
02:22:52,710 --> 02:23:00,130
So you set a threshold for qualification, and then generally there is sometimes on the front end,

1610
02:23:00,390 --> 02:23:04,170
an ownership requirement you must have owned it for any years, or five years, or something.

1611
02:23:04,370 --> 02:23:09,950
So it's not like a developer has bought it, and they're going to get this approved and then sell it off, you know?

1612
02:23:10,830 --> 02:23:16,030
And then there's also an ownership requirement on the back end, and this is the thing that everybody

1613
02:23:16,030 --> 02:23:20,890
is least satisfied with. Generally, it would be like, oh, you've got it for three years or

1614
02:23:20,890 --> 02:23:25,930
something like that. But there's no real way if anybody has to police it when I say

1615
02:23:25,930 --> 02:23:32,630
police it, I'm speaking too loosely, to track it. And really, I don't know if you could enforce

1616
02:23:32,630 --> 02:23:37,370
that if you wanted to. And I could go down to the courthouse and file an injunction to keep these

1617
02:23:37,370 --> 02:23:41,770
people from selling their property. What if it was subject to a divorce decree or a bankruptcy

1618
02:23:41,770 --> 02:23:46,530
to create you or they just can't afford to pay their mortgage.

1619
02:23:46,850 --> 02:23:52,050
There are lots of reasons that you would maybe the person died.

1620
02:23:52,990 --> 02:23:55,950
So there are lots of things that happen that are unexpected.

1621
02:23:56,630 --> 02:24:02,470
When people come to you with these subdivisions, they have the best of intentions, but they

1622
02:24:02,470 --> 02:24:03,910
don't know what the future holds.

1623
02:24:04,190 --> 02:24:06,610
They're planning for the best situation.

1624
02:24:08,330 --> 02:24:13,230
And I think like you all have recognized in some of the conversations with us and the other

1625
02:24:13,230 --> 02:24:18,150
Well, against today, you realize that one of the things you have to do is protect from the bad outcomes.

1626
02:24:19,390 --> 02:24:31,830
And so this is one where the bad outcomes are kind of on both ends of the risk, you know, that you turn down the family that wants to give land to their kids to live on.

1627
02:24:32,310 --> 02:24:42,030
At the risk of, you know, one day having substandard roads that people don't want to maintain and are going to be unhappy with each other in the county about.

1628
02:24:45,530 --> 02:24:51,310
I just want to add to just a little bit about the easements, the 25-foot easements, the way

1629
02:24:51,310 --> 02:24:57,110
they're creating monitor subdivisions currently now is that you can create five lots and

1630
02:24:57,110 --> 02:25:00,510
we're creating flag lots off the 25-foot easements.

1631
02:25:00,830 --> 02:25:03,550
So we're creating substandard roads currently.

1632
02:25:04,930 --> 02:25:10,150
If you're the six person that comes in, then we require you to get the right away and build

1633
02:25:10,150 --> 02:25:11,410
that right at county standards.

1634
02:25:12,210 --> 02:25:14,250
Well, I'm not going to give you the right way to do that

1635
02:25:14,250 --> 02:25:16,410
because I don't, my buildings are already up

1636
02:25:16,410 --> 02:25:18,330
because it's just a 20-up at easement.

1637
02:25:19,910 --> 02:25:23,470
So this was in help, especially with code enforcement,

1638
02:25:23,770 --> 02:25:26,270
we have people that go out there and block the driveways.

1639
02:25:27,130 --> 02:25:31,050
We have just different things that have happened.

1640
02:25:31,550 --> 02:25:33,930
So typically what I, you know, you create a lot,

1641
02:25:34,030 --> 02:25:36,890
a minor plant, you should create it all.

1642
02:25:36,970 --> 02:25:39,850
First and foremost, a county or a state maintain road.

1643
02:25:39,850 --> 02:25:46,210
are right away. And if you don't have that, then you need to go through the subdivision process

1644
02:25:46,210 --> 02:25:53,170
and do a preliminary and a final playout. Unless we have some type of exemption, because

1645
02:25:53,170 --> 02:25:58,110
the 25th of it is meant where they were creating these lots wasn't exemption. It's currently

1646
02:25:58,110 --> 02:26:06,050
in the UDO now, but if you want to have an exemption for the AR or the AR, you can come up with

1647
02:26:06,050 --> 02:26:11,250
must have on it for 10, you know, 10 years, just like what Sean said, it has to be a draft

1648
02:26:11,250 --> 02:26:18,030
going from mother to son or that type thing and you can only do one per lot. Because for each

1649
02:26:18,030 --> 02:26:23,510
one of those lots that we're creating, five lots, that's five cars probably that's coming off,

1650
02:26:23,510 --> 02:26:34,140
you know, a substandard that turns into a road. And so this, what we, well we've staff has discussed

1651
02:26:34,140 --> 02:26:39,180
So much amount is the 25th of easement and historically how it's been done of creating

1652
02:26:39,180 --> 02:26:39,880
this parcel.

1653
02:26:42,490 --> 02:26:43,370
Thank you.

1654
02:26:45,200 --> 02:26:46,800
How many more slides do you have?

1655
02:26:47,140 --> 02:26:48,220
I think one.

1656
02:26:49,500 --> 02:26:52,660
I think some people already had to leave that want to do public comment.

1657
02:26:52,660 --> 02:26:52,960
Okay.

1658
02:26:52,960 --> 02:26:54,100
I want to make sure I get the public comment.

1659
02:26:54,120 --> 02:26:54,400
All right.

1660
02:26:55,040 --> 02:26:57,220
So we were done with this sort of substantive part.

1661
02:26:57,560 --> 02:27:00,240
So we had a developer's open house last week.

1662
02:27:00,460 --> 02:27:01,280
Two public open houses.

1663
02:27:01,420 --> 02:27:02,260
Some of y'all were there.

1664
02:27:03,300 --> 02:27:05,780
We had a really good turnout up in the Indian land.

1665
02:27:05,780 --> 02:27:08,480
We had a really good turnout from developers here.

1666
02:27:09,600 --> 02:27:12,340
We've gotten a lot of feedback, both pros and cons,

1667
02:27:12,560 --> 02:27:15,240
on the UDO and specific parts of it.

1668
02:27:15,600 --> 02:27:19,060
There's a website where people can make comments on the UDO

1669
02:27:19,060 --> 02:27:23,520
and we can aggregate that and we'll give those comments to you.

1670
02:27:24,540 --> 02:27:26,720
And then also the public has the opportunity

1671
02:27:26,720 --> 02:27:28,960
to give comments at public meetings like tonight.

1672
02:27:29,740 --> 02:27:31,180
So this is the website.

1673
02:27:31,420 --> 02:27:34,680
It's easy to click on and learn and make comments.

1674
02:27:34,680 --> 02:27:37,700
on and I've gone ahead and played with it, it is very user friendly.

1675
02:27:38,720 --> 02:27:43,740
And then, so this is the last slide, is the adoption schedule and kind of the timeline.

1676
02:27:44,320 --> 02:27:49,300
The concept is, as Y'all know, on the back end, there is the development moratorium.

1677
02:27:50,320 --> 02:27:56,280
And so one of the primary goals is adoption before the moratorium expires.

1678
02:27:57,180 --> 02:28:02,440
So really what it sounds like, and you can certainly talk about your schedule, because

1679
02:28:02,440 --> 02:28:08,300
you control your schedule more than anybody else, but, you know, a hearing tonight where you

1680
02:28:08,300 --> 02:28:15,700
will, you know, consider possibly a proof of the idea with changes or with no changes depending

1681
02:28:15,700 --> 02:28:16,660
on what you want.

1682
02:28:17,900 --> 02:28:24,080
You know, then so county council would like to have an opportunity to review, and it seems like

1683
02:28:24,080 --> 02:28:28,880
maybe propose some changes I'm thinking, but maybe not, we'll see.

1684
02:28:28,880 --> 02:28:35,340
And part of this ad hoc UDO committee goal was really to create a final document that was as

1685
02:28:35,340 --> 02:28:40,720
final as things could be without people wanting to change things at the very last minute.

1686
02:28:41,600 --> 02:28:47,640
So then after the county council's first reading, you know, what their version of the document

1687
02:28:47,640 --> 02:28:53,480
would be set and so then on September the 8th there would be a special call meeting for

1688
02:28:53,480 --> 02:28:58,520
all on the planning commission to consider that document and any changes and then continuing

1689
02:28:58,520 --> 02:29:01,540
on with the, you know, the formal public hearing process.

1690
02:29:02,920 --> 02:29:07,100
And I don't know if Kristen or Shannon, did you all want to address the timeline?

1691
02:29:09,020 --> 02:29:09,580
Okay.

1692
02:29:11,120 --> 02:29:11,300
Yeah.

1693
02:29:11,500 --> 02:29:17,760
So, I think that, I think that the timeline is important and it's urgent because of the

1694
02:29:17,760 --> 02:29:23,780
oratorium, but you certainly have the opportunity to have as many meetings as you want

1695
02:29:23,780 --> 02:29:27,140
on this to feel comfortable, because I realize it's a lot of stuff.

1696
02:29:29,610 --> 02:29:29,830
All right.

1697
02:29:30,470 --> 02:29:31,050
So I will.

1698
02:29:31,490 --> 02:29:32,150
Thank you.

1699
02:29:32,870 --> 02:29:37,050
Let's consider ourselves into public hearing and I apologize.

1700
02:29:38,250 --> 02:29:40,830
This is not a normal item agenda.

1701
02:29:40,990 --> 02:29:43,690
I probably should have done public hearing before we started all of this.

1702
02:29:43,690 --> 02:29:46,010
So thank you for all your patience and waiting.

1703
02:29:46,010 --> 02:29:50,470
Like I said, we're going to consider ourselves into public hearing.

1704
02:29:51,070 --> 02:29:53,070
When your name is called, please come to the DAIS.

1705
02:29:53,230 --> 02:29:56,390
Adjust the microphone as need is, state your name and address for the record,

1706
02:29:56,850 --> 02:29:59,850
and you'll have three minutes to address the planning commission in your tables.

1707
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:07,660
Start after you've done your name and address. The first person signed up is a Renette Helms. Is that the couple that

1708
02:30:07,660 --> 02:30:15,120
already left? Okay, did they leave? Is this book with you? Did you tell them to like email or

1709
02:30:15,120 --> 02:30:20,340
something in their comments? Okay, thank you.

1710
02:30:20,340 --> 02:30:21,340
This should, yeah.

1711
02:30:23,280 --> 02:30:24,320
Janine Clifton?

1712
02:30:26,720 --> 02:30:29,320
Janine Chairwoman, just before, so I don't forget.

1713
02:30:29,960 --> 02:30:32,860
Is it possible for us to get copies of those slides?

1714
02:30:35,190 --> 02:30:35,410
My paper.

1715
02:30:36,470 --> 02:30:36,550
Yes.

1716
02:30:36,550 --> 02:30:37,290
That could've been done.

1717
02:30:37,290 --> 02:30:38,750
Don't ask me, ask him.

1718
02:30:40,050 --> 02:30:41,850
I'm going through you.

1719
02:30:41,950 --> 02:30:42,110
Yes, man.

1720
02:30:42,110 --> 02:30:43,750
I'm just teasing you.

1721
02:30:44,170 --> 02:30:44,430
Thank you.

1722
02:30:45,370 --> 02:30:47,930
They were, they were a great resource.

1723
02:30:48,310 --> 02:30:50,010
So if we can get copies, that would be wonderful.

1724
02:30:50,950 --> 02:30:51,090
Thank you.

1725
02:30:51,470 --> 02:30:52,110
Sorry, ma'am.

1726
02:30:53,570 --> 02:30:56,290
And put it to your patients and waiting out.

1727
02:30:57,350 --> 02:30:59,890
What would it choose they'd be without me?

1728
02:31:00,250 --> 02:31:06,750
Jeanine Clifton, I live in 2023, Oliver Terrace, and as always I'm here.

1729
02:31:07,530 --> 02:31:10,450
Represent in my neighbors and us.

1730
02:31:10,970 --> 02:31:17,310
Really glad you're looking at the UDO and that we're having the opportunity to review it.

1731
02:31:17,310 --> 02:31:28,230
I do thank you for pushing back and making sure there's planning commission review of commercial subdivisions, since we all know I'm part of the problem child.

1732
02:31:29,990 --> 02:31:41,490
A few things I gave y'all a handout today, which are a few things that some neighbors have all put together based on their first look at the UDO and maybe things for you to consider.

1733
02:31:42,030 --> 02:31:46,510
as usual, we kind of try and hit on the points with all the reference numbers.

1734
02:31:47,390 --> 02:31:51,170
But some key highlights, I think, that I'd like to bring up or that,

1735
02:31:51,630 --> 02:31:57,330
let's just please remember that we need to continue to have the site plan, the site analysis,

1736
02:31:58,050 --> 02:32:04,210
and preliminary plots submitted for subdivisions or, especially, commercial subdivisions.

1737
02:32:04,510 --> 02:32:07,490
I think what we see in right now is y'all are distinguishing between

1738
02:32:07,490 --> 02:32:12,550
minor subdivisions being residential and I'm hoping you're thinking that way

1739
02:32:12,550 --> 02:32:17,290
since we've caught in one that's a minor commercial. But with the side

1740
02:32:17,290 --> 02:32:21,590
analysis it's especially in commercial it's one of the county's only tools for

1741
02:32:21,590 --> 02:32:26,010
catching grading clear cutting problems before they happen. So please continue

1742
02:32:26,010 --> 02:32:30,730
that at that back in. I think the other thing you'll notice and I have it more

1743
02:32:30,730 --> 02:32:36,370
in the highlights is really think about offices next to residential and make sure

1744
02:32:36,370 --> 02:32:38,010
They have the right types of buffers.

1745
02:32:38,310 --> 02:32:40,730
We see where some of that maybe isn't clearly

1746
02:32:40,730 --> 02:32:42,690
kept or has been removed.

1747
02:32:43,710 --> 02:32:46,290
Also, tree preservation buffers, we were part

1748
02:32:46,290 --> 02:32:47,730
of that fun clear cut.

1749
02:32:48,990 --> 02:32:51,170
Another thing to look at, and I'll just highlight these

1750
02:32:51,170 --> 02:32:53,170
are accessory use in setbacks.

1751
02:32:53,170 --> 02:32:54,910
I have them highlighted on our sheet.

1752
02:32:55,450 --> 02:32:58,090
But it appears that some of those are kind of going away.

1753
02:32:58,630 --> 02:33:00,950
And we're getting caught up in a playground,

1754
02:33:01,190 --> 02:33:04,430
commercial playground being within 10 feet

1755
02:33:04,430 --> 02:33:10,450
of a residential subdivision and some of this looks like that's being removed so please look at that

1756
02:33:10,450 --> 02:33:16,570
hard for us and then if you look at the teeny tiny print on the back look at your open space

1757
02:33:16,570 --> 02:33:25,090
calculations and exclusions and see if you know we see some things there that probably need to be thought

1758
02:33:25,090 --> 02:33:34,410
through and then of course the conversation that we continue to have with Melanie Lane about the

1759
02:33:34,410 --> 02:33:40,870
The devil is in the details, I hope some of the feedback that the residents have brought give you some of the details

1760
02:33:40,870 --> 02:33:46,510
The think about that can complement the big picture that you're thinking through. So thank you for your time.

1761
02:33:46,850 --> 02:33:47,630
Thank you, ma'am.

1762
02:33:49,900 --> 02:33:52,020
The next person is Nicole Robinson.

1763
02:33:58,070 --> 02:33:58,770
Good evening.

1764
02:33:59,570 --> 02:34:06,470
My name is Nicole Robinson and I'm at 1801 Gatson Street in Columbia, South Carolina, 29201.

1765
02:34:06,470 --> 02:34:10,210
And I'm actually with the Manufactured Housing Institute

1766
02:34:10,210 --> 02:34:12,870
of South Carolina or MHISC.

1767
02:34:13,550 --> 02:34:15,630
And we are a statewide trade association

1768
02:34:15,630 --> 02:34:18,310
that represents the manufactured housing industry,

1769
02:34:18,550 --> 02:34:23,250
including manufacturers, retailers, communities, and such.

1770
02:34:24,110 --> 02:34:26,630
Part of my role is working with local governments

1771
02:34:26,630 --> 02:34:29,770
to kind of advance the interest of our industry

1772
02:34:29,770 --> 02:34:31,410
as well as affordable housing.

1773
02:34:32,050 --> 02:34:34,190
So that's why I'm here today

1774
02:34:34,190 --> 02:34:39,910
And to just kind of reiterate that these are not our grandfathers and grandparents trailers,

1775
02:34:40,710 --> 02:34:48,110
they are now built to modern highly customizable features at a rigorous HUD code.

1776
02:34:48,890 --> 02:34:56,190
And so buyers can choose residential architectural features, luxury bathrooms, premium countertops,

1777
02:34:57,550 --> 02:35:00,810
and to finishes that are the same as site build construction.

1778
02:35:00,810 --> 02:35:12,070
And they are highly energy efficient, so we really want to stress that they are at a significantly lower cost than site built construction.

1779
02:35:12,650 --> 02:35:19,630
So when you're talking about attainable missing middle housing without government subsidies, we are the solution.

1780
02:35:20,210 --> 02:35:27,110
And when you actually owned the land, they appreciate at the same rate as site built homes.

1781
02:35:27,110 --> 02:35:30,390
So, you know, this is not a depreciating asset.

1782
02:35:31,250 --> 02:35:34,930
So, some of the things that we have noted at the UDO

1783
02:35:34,930 --> 02:35:38,210
is that it states all manufactured homes

1784
02:35:38,210 --> 02:35:39,710
shall have a permanent foundation

1785
02:35:39,710 --> 02:35:43,030
and shall be tied down per the manufacturer's instruction.

1786
02:35:43,830 --> 02:35:46,450
So, that to me is a little bit of a conflict.

1787
02:35:47,290 --> 02:35:50,690
And so, curious, and that is in the existing one as well.

1788
02:35:50,770 --> 02:35:52,610
So, that's one thing that we would like

1789
02:35:52,610 --> 02:35:54,290
to see have some clarity.

1790
02:35:54,950 --> 02:36:02,170
Federal law also has now removed the permanent chassis requirement that just happens, so that is something that is interesting.

1791
02:36:03,150 --> 02:36:09,050
Also, the proposed UDO says a non-conforming manufactured home may be replaced with another one.

1792
02:36:09,050 --> 02:36:11,910
Provided that it is no older than the home being replaced.

1793
02:36:12,470 --> 02:36:20,630
There was a recent law that passed at the state that says it's no more than five years old and may not be less than 12 months in the local discontinuance.

1794
02:36:20,630 --> 02:36:25,990
So we, if you continue with the six months, that's in conflict with state all that just passed.

1795
02:36:26,530 --> 02:36:34,050
And lastly, we would just, different, ask that you differentiate between a subdivision and a

1796
02:36:34,050 --> 02:36:38,770
park because those are two different things. And I see them use kind of as a slash in the

1797
02:36:38,770 --> 02:36:44,990
UDO. And so we would recommend that you distinguish them and allow them where site both homes

1798
02:36:44,990 --> 02:36:50,470
are allowed. Because they're indistinguishable when you have a parent standards that match

1799
02:36:50,470 --> 02:36:56,470
the community. So we're not against that. So thank you for your time. I appreciate the opportunity to speak.

1800
02:36:56,850 --> 02:36:58,990
Thank you for the information. It was very nice to

1801
02:37:03,570 --> 02:37:04,810
meet you for the finished minutes.

1802
02:37:06,450 --> 02:37:07,030
Yeah, right.

1803
02:37:07,710 --> 02:37:11,190
Thank you. That is the last person that we had signed up.

1804
02:37:11,390 --> 02:37:12,190
Yes, ma'am.

1805
02:37:13,860 --> 02:37:15,280
Yes, please come up.

1806
02:37:19,740 --> 02:37:22,740
I wanted to just make a note publicly to you all.

1807
02:37:23,020 --> 02:37:25,760
And I think this got to one of the questions that you had.

1808
02:37:25,760 --> 02:37:28,160
the county. I'm definitely named the

1809
02:37:28,160 --> 02:37:32,640
South American. Yes, I'm Stephanie Snowden. I live at 109 South Main Street

1810
02:37:32,640 --> 02:37:34,740
but I'm also the deputy county administrative.

1811
02:37:34,860 --> 02:37:37,900
Those who didn't know who are watching. Yes, I'm sorry. Thank you.

1812
02:37:38,100 --> 02:37:41,660
Because I know that everyone wants to get out, but I just wanted to make publicly

1813
02:37:41,660 --> 02:37:46,460
make everyone aware that Lancaster County partnered with

1814
02:37:46,460 --> 02:37:55,740
York County, Chester Union to work with the

1815
02:37:55,740 --> 02:38:04,280
And that study will be presented on August 26th from 10 a.m. to 11.30 a.m. here in Council Chambers.

1816
02:38:04,780 --> 02:38:13,860
And it's very important because it got to what Commissioner Crandell asked about was housing in the missing middle and workforce housing.

1817
02:38:14,660 --> 02:38:25,620
But while it is a housing workforce study, it looks at the economics, it looks at the different job growth creation in the different areas.

1818
02:38:26,800 --> 02:38:31,400
recommendations on how to address some of the middle housing, the missing middle housing,

1819
02:38:31,800 --> 02:38:32,400
throughout the county.

1820
02:38:32,680 --> 02:38:37,360
So I know that it's being held during the day, but it's going to be an important study that's

1821
02:38:37,360 --> 02:38:44,580
a first step that may also answer how the UDO may affect what we're looking at from a demographics

1822
02:38:44,580 --> 02:38:45,600
and that sort of thing.

1823
02:38:45,720 --> 02:38:53,280
So that's going to be August 26 from 10 a.m. to 1130 a.m. and we'll send out an email to

1824
02:38:53,280 --> 02:38:58,520
you all. The public is certainly invited, but most of the folks that will be here will be

1825
02:38:58,520 --> 02:39:04,500
the municipalities, the City of Lancaster participated in this, so it's been very extensive.

1826
02:39:05,080 --> 02:39:10,100
And the other part that I want to also make you all aware of is Tishler Bice will be at your

1827
02:39:10,100 --> 02:39:16,620
September 22nd meeting discussing their work plan for the update of the Impact Study

1828
02:39:16,620 --> 02:39:23,140
fee. The Impact Study from 2021. So that's going to be on September 22nd. So just

1829
02:39:23,140 --> 02:39:28,700
I wanted to just publicly state that, but also just talk about the importance of that

1830
02:39:28,700 --> 02:39:33,460
Cotaba Regional Workforce Housing Study, so thank you all very much for your time.

1831
02:39:33,980 --> 02:39:36,440
That's the fourth Tuesday of the month.

1832
02:39:36,700 --> 02:39:39,600
We don't have a meeting on the 22nd, do we?

1833
02:39:39,680 --> 02:39:44,480
We I believe that you will, we talked, I think we spoke with the chairwoman that may not

1834
02:39:44,480 --> 02:39:46,460
have been sent out, but that was the date.

1835
02:39:47,220 --> 02:39:50,980
I'll say, but that's not, we were trying to do it at our normal meeting that would be

1836
02:39:56,740 --> 02:40:10,840
Okay, I will double check, but Dean, okay, I will double check, but just wanted to just let you know that we were planning on having them at your September meeting, so we'll, we'll, if that's the date that's been scheduled, we would just.

1837
02:40:11,340 --> 02:40:13,680
I had a question about that.

1838
02:40:13,680 --> 02:40:19,080
Well, council, are you working with council being able to speak to them when they make the

1839
02:40:19,080 --> 02:40:19,680
same trip?

1840
02:40:20,000 --> 02:40:24,340
Well, they are, but not, but I believe they're going to actually speak with you all first

1841
02:40:24,340 --> 02:40:27,120
and then the next day work with council.

1842
02:40:27,280 --> 02:40:33,120
I believe that from the state statute, you all kind of have to be the first driver, but what

1843
02:40:33,120 --> 02:40:37,780
they're essentially going to do is work through their work plan with you all.

1844
02:40:37,860 --> 02:40:39,580
They're going to talk about their methodology.

1845
02:40:39,580 --> 02:40:44,440
energy. They're going to give you their timeline. And then that will give you an opportunity

1846
02:40:44,440 --> 02:40:53,860
to comment. So, all right. Well, thank you all, and I'll adjust that date. So, just

1847
02:40:53,860 --> 02:40:59,760
let you know, since you're talking under the public hearing part of the UDO thing, I added

1848
02:40:59,760 --> 02:41:04,940
you to the list, so we would be all official. Okay. Well, thank you all very much. Thank you,

1849
02:41:04,940 --> 02:41:08,900
thank you, ma'am. All right. Well, that now means that we are

1850
02:41:08,900 --> 02:41:12,320
with public hearing items.

1851
02:41:13,940 --> 02:41:19,020
So, like I said, this is not under our normal course of events.

1852
02:41:24,300 --> 02:41:29,220
So, I guess, do I have a motion?

1853
02:41:29,660 --> 02:41:30,540
Do you have more discussion?

1854
02:41:30,840 --> 02:41:32,340
I don't have discussion.

1855
02:41:32,540 --> 02:41:34,160
I would just like to say something.

1856
02:41:34,160 --> 02:41:42,500
and for anyone who read the article in the Lancaster Paper on Sunday, I was not aware it was

1857
02:41:42,500 --> 02:41:47,000
going to be in the paper, they just took comments from our meeting and there was nothing

1858
02:41:47,000 --> 02:41:55,220
inaccurate in it. However, they highlighted my frustration with the process and Dr. Willis was

1859
02:41:55,220 --> 02:42:03,340
the messenger that night and in no way has Dr. Willis or the planning department held up any of the

1860
02:42:03,340 --> 02:42:10,120
work by the impact group, and I could have talked to you privately and said that, but I

1861
02:42:10,120 --> 02:42:16,860
don't believe in having a splash that I didn't know was coming, and then privately saying,

1862
02:42:17,200 --> 02:42:24,600
oh, I wasn't talking about you, but in the paper she was named, and I felt it was very

1863
02:42:24,600 --> 02:42:31,180
unfair. It looked like it was singling out one member of the planning department, and I've

1864
02:42:31,180 --> 02:42:41,540
gotten more information about the whole process, and I can't say I'm 100% happy, but

1865
02:42:41,540 --> 02:42:47,120
it had nothing to do with Dr. Willis of the staff, and I just wanted to make sure I'm

1866
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:52,980
sure this won't be covered on the front page of the Lancaster paper, but I found the article

1867
02:42:52,980 --> 02:43:00,420
when I went to buy sour cream and looked at it and said, I wonder who they interviewed, and

1868
02:43:00,420 --> 02:43:06,320
And I stood there and I'm sure food lie and employees wonder why I was looking at the paper

1869
02:43:06,320 --> 02:43:10,600
going, oh no, oh no, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1870
02:43:10,600 --> 02:43:18,300
So I just wanted to make a public statement that Dr. Willis has not held up the impact study.

1871
02:43:18,620 --> 02:43:23,060
Commissioner Lou, staff does not feel that you have the moment to the process at all.

1872
02:43:23,540 --> 02:43:27,940
I did not take any personal offense to what was written in the paper.

1873
02:43:27,940 --> 02:43:33,980
Of course, we were here and we spoke about it and so that was I did not receive any type of

1874
02:43:34,620 --> 02:43:39,460
Blaine that you felt that it was me that was delaying at our staff at all and so I I

1875
02:43:39,460 --> 02:43:44,520
I appreciate you sending them, but I was not offended at all whatsoever and just so that publicly

1876
02:43:44,520 --> 02:43:48,200
We do not feel that you've been moment the process either. Thank you very much

1877
02:43:48,200 --> 02:43:55,940
I don't ever use the word be moan in my vocabulary and I also would like to say no one asked me to make this statement

1878
02:43:55,940 --> 02:44:01,200
it's something that has been weighing on me since I was mortified on Sunday. Nothing was

1879
02:44:01,200 --> 02:44:07,000
incorrect that I said. I have been very frustrated with this, but you were singled out

1880
02:44:07,000 --> 02:44:12,860
on the article and I didn't think that was fair. So I just wanted to get there for a couple

1881
02:44:12,860 --> 02:44:13,120
of years.

1882
02:44:13,120 --> 02:44:16,520
than private lake. Thank you.

1883
02:44:17,200 --> 02:44:30,760
All right, so I'm kind of an unknown territory here because I guess I need someone to make a motion.

1884
02:44:32,220 --> 02:44:39,640
Our next meeting is September 8th. Yes, especially called meeting.

1885
02:44:39,640 --> 02:44:51,340
And he's someone to make a motion so we can open up the floor for discussion about voting on the new UDO.

1886
02:44:51,440 --> 02:44:55,540
I'm sorry. I thought you wanted a motion to adjourn that's why I'm trying to do that again.

1887
02:44:56,320 --> 02:44:56,420
I'm sorry.

1888
02:45:01,070 --> 02:45:12,930
This isn't, this isn't a rezoning, this is anything, this is so I am. Yeah, so I guess it was just get a motion to get it on the floor and then we're going to have to have discussion.

1889
02:45:13,090 --> 02:45:16,570
Like I said, this is kind of not our normal stuff.

1890
02:45:17,110 --> 02:45:18,790
Chairman, will we still be able to ask questions?

1891
02:45:19,330 --> 02:45:19,730
Yes. Okay.

1892
02:45:20,490 --> 02:45:25,570
For the sake of allowing discussion, I make a motion.

1893
02:45:26,430 --> 02:45:26,470
Oh.

1894
02:45:30,770 --> 02:45:35,250
the UDO. Yes, but UDO with comments and recommended.

1895
02:45:35,330 --> 02:45:38,690
Oh, there will be lots. Yes. Okay. So yes, do I have a second?

1896
02:45:38,930 --> 02:45:42,070
Second. All right. So now we have it open up for discussion.

1897
02:45:44,170 --> 02:45:46,330
So because we have emotion

1898
02:45:46,330 --> 02:45:55,530
and a second. So I've got us, all right. Like I said, this is uncharted territory for me.

1899
02:45:55,530 --> 02:46:01,910
because this hasn't happened in 10 years, so I have too long lists here.

1900
02:46:02,530 --> 02:46:08,210
One is mostly just editorial comments and stuff and everything like that.

1901
02:46:08,910 --> 02:46:12,710
I don't really want to sit here and have to read all of this.

1902
02:46:12,790 --> 02:46:15,970
I don't know if I brought multiple copies, so I can give them to you.

1903
02:46:16,470 --> 02:46:19,190
I can give them to Mara and stuff like that.

1904
02:46:19,570 --> 02:46:23,730
These are just things like name a few miscellaneous ones.

1905
02:46:23,730 --> 02:46:27,230
some of the hyperlinks aren't correct or missing,

1906
02:46:27,950 --> 02:46:29,870
where there should be a hyperlink, you know,

1907
02:46:31,890 --> 02:46:34,130
just, and some, and consistent things like sometimes

1908
02:46:34,130 --> 02:46:35,710
the section is type of purpose,

1909
02:46:35,850 --> 02:46:37,570
sometimes it's purpose and intent.

1910
02:46:38,030 --> 02:46:39,930
I don't know if there was a difference between those,

1911
02:46:39,990 --> 02:46:41,390
or if it's just, you know,

1912
02:46:41,470 --> 02:46:44,330
so it's just, it's a bunch of little, little things,

1913
02:46:44,330 --> 02:46:45,730
little things like that.

1914
02:46:46,270 --> 02:46:47,870
Then I think we all agree,

1915
02:46:48,050 --> 02:46:51,350
there are some major things

1916
02:46:51,350 --> 02:46:59,890
that we want to have included as recommendations to move this forward to council to for changes to get included in there.

1917
02:47:01,250 --> 02:47:03,130
So somebody go.

1918
02:47:04,210 --> 02:47:04,850
Go ahead.

1919
02:47:08,170 --> 02:47:09,890
So I think I'll start.

1920
02:47:10,070 --> 02:47:13,130
I have some overall points that I just think are important.

1921
02:47:15,210 --> 02:47:19,070
Just to say as as a commission as we get into the UDO.

1922
02:47:19,070 --> 02:47:27,390
The ad hoc committee's goal was to create a more user-friendly document that enhances the existing

1923
02:47:27,390 --> 02:47:31,590
UDO by raising the minimum development standards across all areas.

1924
02:47:32,690 --> 02:47:37,470
The intent is to create a better, better, better, in-results that preserve more of the

1925
02:47:37,470 --> 02:47:42,410
community's natural beauty while better stewarding the overall development process.

1926
02:47:43,950 --> 02:47:49,830
I don't think here in Lancaster County that we can ignore the fact that it is the fastest

1927
02:47:49,830 --> 02:47:51,530
growing state in America.

1928
02:47:52,530 --> 02:47:57,190
We have to be prepared for that growth while keeping the bones and the good elements

1929
02:47:57,190 --> 02:47:58,750
of our existing UDO.

1930
02:47:59,430 --> 02:48:06,550
But my hope is that this document doesn't move on to council where some of the beef that was

1931
02:48:06,550 --> 02:48:14,750
is removed, downgrading the work that we've put into it and the overall product that we hope to get.

1932
02:48:16,090 --> 02:48:18,970
Maybe they could consider things that would even make it stronger.

1933
02:48:20,470 --> 02:48:27,730
I think that the work that was put into this, the goals and changes are intended for

1934
02:48:27,730 --> 02:48:31,370
or a link for the county to grow smarter and develop into a well-planned

1935
02:48:31,370 --> 02:48:35,730
link for county where we're better prepared for the demands and burdens that

1936
02:48:35,730 --> 02:48:43,030
come with inevitable growth. I think that it's also important to note that I know

1937
02:48:43,030 --> 02:48:46,910
a lot of the comments from the community through these meetings, but also just in

1938
02:48:46,910 --> 02:48:52,330
general as the public comes and speaks before us are to keep developers accountable

1939
02:48:52,330 --> 02:48:57,090
for the impact they bring. I just want the public to know that during our ad

1940
02:48:57,090 --> 02:49:03,550
meeting some of us fault for concurrency at every single ad hoc meeting and while we tried.

1941
02:49:05,210 --> 02:49:11,510
It was you know unsuccessful in the end, but I will say that I am happy with the document that we did

1942
02:49:11,510 --> 02:49:19,370
make. We created higher minimum standards. I encourage council to weigh heavily on any changes

1943
02:49:19,370 --> 02:49:24,530
that would weaken the document because I think that it would have a negative long-term impact.

1944
02:49:24,530 --> 02:49:32,450
So now that I said my two cents of hopeful comments, I do have some points, some of which

1945
02:49:32,450 --> 02:49:33,790
Sean, you already mentioned.

1946
02:49:34,670 --> 02:49:38,930
I recalled three meetings where we talked about the minor commercial subdivisions.

1947
02:49:38,930 --> 02:49:41,410
I know we've already discussed that.

1948
02:49:41,710 --> 02:49:47,530
One of my comments would be that, you know, we need to get that finalized and how do we

1949
02:49:47,530 --> 02:49:53,630
navigate the commercial minor neighborhood and get those changes that we talked about.

1950
02:49:53,630 --> 02:49:56,430
So it does come back before the Planning Commission.

1951
02:49:58,990 --> 02:50:04,090
Another large item, I know we talked about the Hill

1952
02:50:04,090 --> 02:50:09,010
Splitter overlay and waiting for that to be an amendment

1953
02:50:09,010 --> 02:50:10,690
after we approve this document.

1954
02:50:11,130 --> 02:50:15,810
And while I do support that, in rereading it,

1955
02:50:16,090 --> 02:50:20,830
I did have some concerns specifically because we

1956
02:50:20,830 --> 02:50:26,250
have documented meetings where we've discussed those credits no longer being available.

1957
02:50:27,230 --> 02:50:32,090
So I don't know if it's a question for our county attorney or if we need to look back into it,

1958
02:50:32,330 --> 02:50:40,190
should we instead have a placeholder in this that somehow speaks to that where that if a project

1959
02:50:40,770 --> 02:50:48,150
is a part of this overlay, we somehow handle it in a different way and the reason that directly affects

1960
02:50:48,150 --> 02:50:57,870
The planning commission is because on page 45, 2.7, 0.1, 0.3, b, 7, wow, that was

1961
02:50:58,550 --> 02:50:59,110
that.

1962
02:50:59,570 --> 02:51:06,530
It states that planning commission has the ultimate say on the Hill Slider Decisions staff.

1963
02:51:07,070 --> 02:51:10,610
So it falls on our shoulders, so I just want to make sure that we're getting that right.

1964
02:51:12,890 --> 02:51:21,810
Additionally, so I know that this might be my personal take on taking a UDO and applying

1965
02:51:21,810 --> 02:51:22,810
it to a project.

1966
02:51:23,690 --> 02:51:28,650
I don't know that I agree with our decision to take out the chunk of the overlays being

1967
02:51:28,650 --> 02:51:32,550
in one document and then splitting it across several because it required a lot of back and

1968
02:51:32,550 --> 02:51:34,330
forth and back and forth to find what I needed.

1969
02:51:34,330 --> 02:51:42,330
I would be more happy with that decision if the table of contents listed where I can find

1970
02:51:43,570 --> 02:51:49,430
the highway corridor overlays within those other chapters, and that's not currently there.

1971
02:51:50,930 --> 02:51:56,390
More specifically, the open space table,

1972
02:51:58,530 --> 02:52:02,350
talking about the requirements for the highway corridor overlay currently says

1973
02:52:02,350 --> 02:52:12,330
in A, which we know that's incorrect because we should have carried the minimum open space

1974
02:52:12,330 --> 02:52:17,590
requirements from the original highway corridor overlay, so that should have something

1975
02:52:17,590 --> 02:52:25,350
there, not just in A on page 229. I need to match what's written in section C of that

1976
02:52:25,350 --> 02:52:30,730
same chapter. I know I'm going fast, I'm through a lot of information.

1977
02:52:31,530 --> 02:52:40,030
I also wanted us as a commission to talk about the possibility of adding Highway 5 to the Highway

1978
02:52:40,030 --> 02:52:47,250
Court or Overlay. I don't know why we didn't, and the committee, it's a major for a fair

1979
02:52:47,250 --> 02:52:53,090
connecting our county to York County and to Rockhill with the growth continuing to move

1980
02:52:53,090 --> 02:53:00,710
down Highway 521. I think that that area will see much growth, and I'm wondering if it should

1981
02:53:01,290 --> 02:53:08,350
be added. We already have two major subdivisions that are approved that are just a very short

1982
02:53:08,350 --> 02:53:13,330
distance off of highway. Right. We're not discussed that earlier today and I'm like,

1983
02:53:13,890 --> 02:53:18,570
well, and you were talking about, I think it's great to put it on Highway 9, but you're right,

1984
02:53:18,670 --> 02:53:24,610
most of Highway 9 is industrial. It would almost make more sense to put it on Highway 5. Yeah,

1985
02:53:24,690 --> 02:53:29,570
to put it on Highway 9. As I was thinking about it, I think when I was talking about some of the

1986
02:53:29,570 --> 02:53:32,730
changes to a friend about the UDO.

1987
02:53:32,950 --> 02:53:36,630
I mentioned Highway 5 and then I looked back through and like oh my gosh we didn't actually say

1988
02:53:36,630 --> 02:53:37,130
that it was.

1989
02:53:37,170 --> 02:53:38,270
Why did we not do that?

1990
02:53:38,350 --> 02:53:41,470
So I think that that might be an excellent addition.

1991
02:53:42,910 --> 02:53:44,250
Another item I found.

1992
02:53:45,150 --> 02:53:54,110
The table content says on page 240 is the tree removal within tree save areas but I actually couldn't find where that is.

1993
02:53:55,560 --> 02:53:58,680
So that's something to look back at.

1994
02:53:58,680 --> 02:54:03,960
And then we kind of spoke on this earlier connectivity requirements within the high record or overlay.

1995
02:54:04,460 --> 02:54:11,940
Something about how I read it, provided a way out for developers through the planning director.

1996
02:54:12,640 --> 02:54:20,200
And I thought that we should consider adding stronger wording to that.

1997
02:54:20,260 --> 02:54:23,360
So it didn't seem like a way to get out of that requirement.

1998
02:54:24,280 --> 02:54:33,060
because it is important, and then this is kind of, I mean, it is important, but more grammatical.

1999
02:54:35,000 --> 02:54:40,600
D-hack is mentioned throughout the document, but that agency is now as C-D-E-S.

2000
02:54:44,690 --> 02:54:45,750
It's a real mic on it.

2001
02:54:46,110 --> 02:54:49,250
I think there was, I think there was one other place, I don't remember where it is.

2002
02:54:49,290 --> 02:54:53,690
There's another place that's, you know, when state of South Carolina read it all of the things,

2003
02:54:53,690 --> 02:54:59,210
I think there's another South Carolina department mentioned in another section that's also

2004
02:54:59,210 --> 02:55:05,010
that's not its name anymore. So just generally go through and get all of those updated.

2005
02:55:05,690 --> 02:55:10,610
I just love it when state agencies change their name and then you have to change all of these

2006
02:55:10,610 --> 02:55:16,650
things because they did all of that. Okay. Sorry. Couple more things and maybe these are more

2007
02:55:16,650 --> 02:55:21,910
questions that we could have answers for when we come back on the eighth.

2008
02:55:22,690 --> 02:55:29,370
I know that Shani mentioned the comments from these public meetings that the three meetings

2009
02:55:29,370 --> 02:55:30,190
from last week.

2010
02:55:30,590 --> 02:55:40,350
I would love to know the common comments and themes overall to make sure that those are

2011
02:55:40,350 --> 02:55:47,090
identified over all three meetings, and if we need to include some of those concerns and we

2012
02:55:47,090 --> 02:55:54,010
can better apply them or realize them. So that's important to me, and that, yeah,

2013
02:56:01,490 --> 02:56:03,010
that

2014
02:56:15,460 --> 02:56:15,780
would be

2015
02:56:15,780 --> 02:56:20,680
wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

2016
02:56:23,460 --> 02:56:24,060
Okay,

2017
02:56:26,960 --> 02:56:29,040
perfect. That after we get all of our comments

2018
02:56:29,040 --> 02:56:36,140
and so. And then just another general comment. Maybe this is more for staff. Just to ask the

2019
02:56:36,140 --> 02:56:42,600
question if staff has looked at all of our conversations from the ad hoc committee and what was

2020
02:56:42,600 --> 02:56:48,280
approved to make sure that those items are in the document, or if anybody's cross-reference

2021
02:56:48,280 --> 02:56:52,440
check those. That is all. Sorry, thank you.

2022
02:56:52,560 --> 02:56:55,800
You want to hear next? I have such a short thing.

2023
02:56:56,420 --> 02:57:00,160
It's very targeted, but I just keep a process

2024
02:57:00,160 --> 02:57:02,040
and had a question.

2025
02:57:04,260 --> 02:57:06,620
The food truck provision.

2026
02:57:07,500 --> 02:57:09,800
And it says they are the permitted districts.

2027
02:57:10,720 --> 02:57:16,700
Our NBGBRB and INS. Does that mean that food trucks cannot visit

2028
02:57:16,700 --> 02:57:23,860
neighborhoods and set up for an evening because LDR and MDR, et cetera, are not permitted

2029
02:57:23,860 --> 02:57:33,100
districts in here. So does that mean that they can only be in NBGBRBINS, like this is

2030
02:57:33,100 --> 02:57:38,840
up to three days with no renewals of Earth, and I see no provision where they can go around

2031
02:57:38,840 --> 02:57:40,160
from neighborhood to neighborhood.

2032
02:57:40,460 --> 02:57:44,600
I haven't they already, it will not creak at an event where they had all they have at

2033
02:57:44,600 --> 02:57:47,180
our neighborhood almost every other week.

2034
02:57:47,640 --> 02:57:49,260
I have no problem with that.

2035
02:57:49,580 --> 02:57:53,360
I'm just wondering, this language says permitted districts

2036
02:57:53,980 --> 02:57:55,760
and they're all business districts

2037
02:57:55,760 --> 02:57:58,380
and no residential districts.

2038
02:57:59,360 --> 02:58:02,860
That is on page 180 for the districts

2039
02:58:02,860 --> 02:58:06,920
and the food trucks says on 158.

2040
02:58:09,480 --> 02:58:11,640
And you make sure you're getting into the microphone

2041
02:58:11,640 --> 02:58:14,100
because I'm not gonna try to reiterate all this.

2042
02:58:14,100 --> 02:58:15,660
I'm going to let them go off with the recording,

2043
02:58:15,740 --> 02:58:17,780
but all these comments and questions are.

2044
02:58:17,800 --> 02:58:19,540
And I don't have a dog in this fight.

2045
02:58:19,560 --> 02:58:21,660
I'm not looking to restrict them,

2046
02:58:22,020 --> 02:58:24,220
but just when I was reading it,

2047
02:58:24,420 --> 02:58:27,180
it just said any permitted area,

2048
02:58:27,780 --> 02:58:30,580
and then when I flipped back to check it,

2049
02:58:30,720 --> 02:58:34,400
NBGB RB-INS and then Turkey shoots,

2050
02:58:34,440 --> 02:58:35,660
that's a whole different thing.

2051
02:58:36,720 --> 02:58:39,840
But that's what NBGB-RB-INS.

2052
02:58:40,020 --> 02:58:42,600
So according to this, it appears

2053
02:58:42,600 --> 02:58:47,600
that they cannot go to residential districts and set up for a night.

2054
02:58:48,340 --> 02:58:49,800
That's a really good comment.

2055
02:58:50,180 --> 02:58:51,600
Oh, thank you.

2056
02:58:52,320 --> 02:58:54,680
Isn't that the point of finding things like that?

2057
02:58:57,780 --> 02:59:00,320
The temporary uses will cover that.

2058
02:59:00,780 --> 02:59:02,540
That just means permanently set up.

2059
02:59:03,020 --> 02:59:11,280
Okay, this is under table 3.14.4 dash to temporary uses limited to specific districts.

2060
02:59:12,100 --> 02:59:13,300
This is temporary uses.

2061
02:59:13,300 --> 02:59:14,420
are allowed in all districts.

2062
02:59:15,000 --> 02:59:15,700
Do we take that away?

2063
02:59:16,220 --> 02:59:17,300
That's page 180.

2064
02:59:18,220 --> 02:59:20,360
We took away temporary uses being in all districts.

2065
02:59:24,070 --> 02:59:25,210
We're going to write that one down.

2066
02:59:25,350 --> 02:59:25,790
Here you go.

2067
02:59:27,030 --> 02:59:28,410
We're going to write that one down.

2068
02:59:29,230 --> 02:59:29,770
Good stuff.

2069
02:59:30,030 --> 02:59:30,510
Thank you.

2070
02:59:47,140 --> 02:59:47,660
OK.

2071
02:59:48,220 --> 02:59:52,060
Like the little biker bar on 21 that has a food truck that's

2072
02:59:52,060 --> 02:59:53,500
like there for weeks at a time.

2073
02:59:54,240 --> 02:59:54,520
OK.

2074
02:59:55,380 --> 02:59:56,440
Now that makes sense.

2075
03:00:00,000 --> 03:00:12,760
There are exemptions, which in one of them includes weddings, receptions, parties, and similar private, non-commercial events held on private property, which might capture what you're talking about.

2076
03:00:13,180 --> 03:00:24,620
If it's the neighborhood calling and saying, hey, food truck owner, we want you to come to our neighborhood on this date. I think that's different than somebody just opening up and for anybody to come and have one.

2077
03:00:24,620 --> 03:00:29,300
It might want to be tightened up a little bit then because versus someone who's invited,

2078
03:00:29,840 --> 03:00:36,180
versus someone who says, oh, someone so neighbor, Walnut Creek has a big pool.

2079
03:00:36,360 --> 03:00:37,560
It's going to look like a beautiful day.

2080
03:00:37,720 --> 03:00:42,020
I'll just show up and have dueling food trucks, et cetera.

2081
03:00:42,700 --> 03:00:46,360
So maybe at one, you should want to tighten it up by invitation.

2082
03:00:47,620 --> 03:00:47,800
Yep.

2083
03:00:47,800 --> 03:00:48,360
We can clarify.

2084
03:00:49,380 --> 03:00:49,640
Thank you.

2085
03:00:49,640 --> 03:00:50,600
That was a really good one.

2086
03:00:50,600 --> 03:00:52,580
See you thought it was pitiful.

2087
03:00:52,580 --> 03:00:54,820
It was significant, thank you.

2088
03:00:55,220 --> 03:00:56,940
It wants to get at the numbering.

2089
03:00:56,940 --> 03:01:00,300
The numbering is off on almost every page starting

2090
03:01:00,300 --> 03:01:03,940
on page 16, which can easily be changed.

2091
03:01:07,120 --> 03:01:07,340
OK.

2092
03:01:07,560 --> 03:01:08,280
I also got done.

2093
03:01:09,100 --> 03:01:10,840
So I might be a lot of questions.

2094
03:01:11,660 --> 03:01:13,880
So Sean or whoever could give me a little help on these,

2095
03:01:13,900 --> 03:01:15,260
because I don't have the benefit of the history.

2096
03:01:15,960 --> 03:01:19,820
So one thing that let's start with an easy one.

2097
03:01:20,440 --> 03:01:23,380
I noticed the horse is one from half an acre,

2098
03:01:23,380 --> 03:01:26,180
one horse per half acre to one horse per six acres.

2099
03:01:26,420 --> 03:01:30,920
If I remember right, I think it's in four, four, two, Charlie.

2100
03:01:32,400 --> 03:01:34,560
Just curious what the...

2101
03:01:34,560 --> 03:01:40,820
Yeah, it's, yeah, well I've got it, it was in 3.3, 0.5, 0.7, minimum

2102
03:01:40,820 --> 03:01:48,060
slot sizes for horses, you know, was one acre and stuff like that.

2103
03:01:48,060 --> 03:01:50,560
Right, jump six times, that's what it went to, yeah.

2104
03:01:50,920 --> 03:01:57,420
So I was just like, it was, I didn't understand why there was just this sudden restriction on.

2105
03:01:57,520 --> 03:02:02,480
Or I said, yeah, I was curious what the history of that one was or, or intent.

2106
03:02:05,180 --> 03:02:07,640
So I'm almost certainly, we carry that forward.

2107
03:02:07,920 --> 03:02:12,220
You're right, it's in 335 Charlie. Sorry, the old one was in 422 Charlie.

2108
03:02:12,320 --> 03:02:13,300
The new one's in 335.

2109
03:02:17,620 --> 03:02:19,360
And describe as a question in uses.

2110
03:02:20,660 --> 03:02:21,400
Hmm, let's look.

2111
03:02:21,620 --> 03:02:24,420
I didn't write that down. I just wrote down section numbers.

2112
03:02:26,040 --> 03:02:31,440
It's like I need eight udios open at the same time. Sorry, three. Let's go find three through five.

2113
03:02:39,540 --> 03:02:42,400
Okay, but, so, does anybody have what it is in the current udio?

2114
03:02:43,960 --> 03:02:47,580
Um, like, oh, that one is in four, four, two, Charlie, let me find it.

2115
03:03:03,150 --> 03:03:04,410
All right, let's scroll in.

2116
03:03:10,850 --> 03:03:13,270
Yeah, so I don't know how this change got in there.

2117
03:03:15,580 --> 03:03:19,840
I think the current one's half acre, just, but I'll try and actually find the...

2118
03:03:19,840 --> 03:03:20,600
Absolutely right.

2119
03:03:21,660 --> 03:03:21,880
Okay.

2120
03:03:24,070 --> 03:03:27,410
Okay, so no background context just happened to be different.

2121
03:03:27,890 --> 03:03:30,770
No, cool, I thought that would make me an easy one.

2122
03:03:32,230 --> 03:03:37,570
And this one might be a little controversial for our whole planning commissions, I'll put it out there now.

2123
03:03:38,110 --> 03:03:39,210
Preliminary plat requirements.

2124
03:03:39,910 --> 03:03:45,370
You know, you would said when you were talking to Sean, I will pair a quote to you with something like,

2125
03:03:45,370 --> 03:03:47,790
you know, when you're looking at commercially, you don't always know the uses.

2126
03:03:48,490 --> 03:03:53,270
The preliminary plot requirements in our current UDO, which carry forward into the future one,

2127
03:03:53,550 --> 03:03:55,690
and did affect current decision we made,

2128
03:03:56,150 --> 03:03:59,790
include buildings, parking areas, all those kind of things.

2129
03:04:00,470 --> 03:04:02,390
That seems like a high standard for preliminary plot,

2130
03:04:02,510 --> 03:04:05,170
especially if your commercial developer didn't even know what's going on there,

2131
03:04:05,510 --> 03:04:07,750
like building envelopes, things like that makes sense.

2132
03:04:08,290 --> 03:04:10,390
Is that something that we looked at and considered?

2133
03:04:10,470 --> 03:04:15,930
Because that's a big hurdle in the process of commercial subdivisions,

2134
03:04:16,510 --> 03:04:32,390
And preliminary flats itself, is that typical for what you see across other counties, is that something we reviewed and decided well, it's a standard that I think is hard to uphold to when you're bringing up preliminary flatten from the planning commission.

2135
03:04:33,630 --> 03:04:45,390
I agree that it is, I would say that it is not the most common way to do it because like you said, you know, the parking might be determined by the use and maybe you don't know what the uses are going to be at the point of subdivision.

2136
03:04:45,930 --> 03:04:51,930
It really depends on whether it's a speculative development or whether it's a development where they have everything locked up.

2137
03:04:53,330 --> 03:04:59,110
So in general, it was not something that we had been kind of, it had been flagged for us to change.

2138
03:04:59,630 --> 03:05:04,450
But I mean, we have talked about it, and it's definitely a higher hurdle than is normal.

2139
03:05:04,910 --> 03:05:06,970
And I was thinking about that when I mentioned it too.

2140
03:05:06,970 --> 03:05:14,850
Yeah, where we're given direction that is to explicitly apply the UDO as it lives, any preliminary

2141
03:05:14,850 --> 03:05:19,630
plot that comes without a building is not compliant based on that language.

2142
03:05:20,330 --> 03:05:28,090
I think it puts us in a strange situation for being able to, and I know that may have other

2143
03:05:28,090 --> 03:05:29,450
ideas on the planning commission.

2144
03:05:29,450 --> 03:05:37,130
No, I agree with you, and I think that what helps support having that as it applies

2145
03:05:37,130 --> 03:05:43,650
to commercial plants is because we can't make sure they're compliant for the highway

2146
03:05:43,650 --> 03:05:47,950
corridor overlaced up without having those buildings and those square footages to make

2147
03:05:47,950 --> 03:05:52,570
sure they're within compliance, which is why I think it's a requirement on the preliminary

2148
03:05:52,570 --> 03:05:53,250
plant.

2149
03:05:54,980 --> 03:05:56,960
I mean, there are definitely pros and cons.

2150
03:05:57,860 --> 03:05:59,480
All there are, have you seen, I'll turn it about,

2151
03:06:00,140 --> 03:06:02,160
like, building envelope, I can see building envelope.

2152
03:06:02,620 --> 03:06:04,820
That seems understandable, right?

2153
03:06:04,860 --> 03:06:06,180
You can say this is our build-able area,

2154
03:06:06,360 --> 03:06:09,260
based on these conditions, the buffers,

2155
03:06:10,500 --> 03:06:11,660
all those kind of things.

2156
03:06:12,260 --> 03:06:15,860
But putting a building on there seems parking spaces,

2157
03:06:16,200 --> 03:06:18,120
seems really difficult, how do you do that?

2158
03:06:18,220 --> 03:06:19,160
If you don't know what your building is.

2159
03:06:19,560 --> 03:06:21,180
I don't think it requires parking spaces.

2160
03:06:21,260 --> 03:06:24,060
I think they're just looking at a general building size

2161
03:06:24,060 --> 03:06:27,420
in a general parking area just to make sure it fits on that.

2162
03:06:27,440 --> 03:06:29,980
And if I remember correctly, at least our preliminary

2163
03:06:29,980 --> 03:06:33,240
flat checklist also says that it doesn't have to just

2164
03:06:33,240 --> 03:06:34,120
be graphically shown.

2165
03:06:34,280 --> 03:06:37,640
It couldn't just be in the notes to the plan, too,

2166
03:06:37,920 --> 03:06:40,020
just so we have the information to do the calculations.

2167
03:06:41,100 --> 03:06:43,600
I think it gets back to the nature of the approval.

2168
03:06:43,860 --> 03:06:45,300
A preliminary plot is subdivision.

2169
03:06:45,500 --> 03:06:48,440
What I think when you get into building locations and parking

2170
03:06:48,440 --> 03:06:52,680
layout, that's a site plan approval, which is a different process.

2171
03:06:52,680 --> 03:06:56,480
So I do think that there needs to be probably some distinction there.

2172
03:06:56,820 --> 03:06:59,340
And maybe perhaps being more general, like Mr. Krandell was saying,

2173
03:06:59,900 --> 03:07:03,340
with a buildable area and maybe show them where buffers and setbacks and things are.

2174
03:07:03,600 --> 03:07:07,320
Yeah, it would be okay if I wanted to pull a very spot.

2175
03:07:09,740 --> 03:07:11,800
Yeah, I'm going to try and find it. Right.

2176
03:07:12,960 --> 03:07:15,060
And so that was just curious if that was something we considered and looked at.

2177
03:07:15,680 --> 03:07:21,380
That's a tough one to carry forward to me.

2178
03:07:21,420 --> 03:07:21,880
Oh, I see.

2179
03:07:21,880 --> 03:07:22,460
Now go ahead.

2180
03:07:22,500 --> 03:07:26,740
I mean, I just think it falls back on how we handle the commercial.

2181
03:07:27,280 --> 03:07:28,520
I agree.

2182
03:07:29,180 --> 03:07:29,700
Neighborhood.

2183
03:07:29,720 --> 03:07:31,080
What we're deciding to do is that.

2184
03:07:33,520 --> 03:07:36,940
Yeah, and just to find it, because it's pretty detailed.

2185
03:07:37,280 --> 03:07:41,040
And it's actually better detailed in the, because it's just a paragraph.

2186
03:07:41,420 --> 03:07:43,980
And the first one, this is required site features

2187
03:07:43,980 --> 03:07:46,880
are buildings, parking areas, street locations, street sections,

2188
03:07:48,020 --> 03:07:50,580
and then conceptual size, a stormwater, or water course buffer,

2189
03:07:50,800 --> 03:07:51,960
or stuff like that.

2190
03:07:53,040 --> 03:07:53,480
Okay.

2191
03:07:55,180 --> 03:07:55,620
See.

2192
03:07:56,740 --> 03:07:56,880
Okay.

2193
03:07:57,060 --> 03:07:57,140
Going.

2194
03:07:58,140 --> 03:07:58,320
Yep.

2195
03:07:58,480 --> 03:07:59,160
You have the floor.

2196
03:07:59,360 --> 03:08:00,680
Thank you.

2197
03:08:01,180 --> 03:08:02,520
I thought we took out conditional use.

2198
03:08:02,700 --> 03:08:06,640
I understand that's kind of a standard for where the state's going so I can understand

2199
03:08:06,640 --> 03:08:08,620
why we did that.

2200
03:08:10,580 --> 03:08:12,380
Non-conforming buildings could rebuild those.

2201
03:08:14,440 --> 03:08:15,460
Oh, vested rights.

2202
03:08:16,400 --> 03:08:20,140
So the vested rights section is maybe I just don't understand this and I apologize if I don't.

2203
03:08:20,140 --> 03:08:28,100
It looks like 1493 Alpha 2 says that the planning mission may extend the vesting time for a site

2204
03:08:28,100 --> 03:08:30,900
specific development plan to a total of five years upon determination.

2205
03:08:31,300 --> 03:08:35,260
There's just cause for the extension, and the public interest is not adversely affected.

2206
03:08:36,280 --> 03:08:42,360
And then in 1495 Bravo, we say if the landowner makes a timely and proper written application,

2207
03:08:42,440 --> 03:08:47,460
the plan commission must approve applications from no more than five successive annual extensions.

2208
03:08:54,740 --> 03:08:57,240
Are those two talking about the same?

2209
03:08:57,660 --> 03:08:58,140
Yeah, exactly.

2210
03:08:58,500 --> 03:09:01,480
One seems like there's some level of discretion to it.

2211
03:09:01,500 --> 03:09:03,940
And the other seems like there's a mandatory element.

2212
03:09:05,360 --> 03:09:06,280
And I'm not sure which one.

2213
03:09:06,660 --> 03:09:08,100
Maybe they don't even talk about the same thing.

2214
03:09:08,300 --> 03:09:10,180
Maybe these are investing rights for different things.

2215
03:09:10,860 --> 03:09:12,100
And I'm misunderstanding this.

2216
03:09:12,460 --> 03:09:15,420
But from my reading of it, it looks like one is discretionary.

2217
03:09:15,540 --> 03:09:18,340
One is mandatory approval.

2218
03:09:22,920 --> 03:09:24,300
I'm happy to dig into this now.

2219
03:09:24,520 --> 03:09:26,740
Or I can just add this to our list of stuff to fix.

2220
03:09:26,920 --> 03:09:27,580
I'm okay with you.

2221
03:09:27,580 --> 03:09:29,880
And add it to the list, just add the list.

2222
03:09:30,740 --> 03:09:32,620
I'm good with that.

2223
03:09:33,700 --> 03:09:36,400
I noticed that we don't talk about data centers in here anywhere.

2224
03:09:37,940 --> 03:09:42,420
That is obviously a big item that's hitting a lot of counties around the

2225
03:09:42,420 --> 03:09:43,660
across the U.S.

2226
03:09:43,780 --> 03:09:46,160
If that's something that we talked about in consider, we'll come in a future

2227
03:09:46,160 --> 03:09:46,560
amendment.

2228
03:09:47,360 --> 03:09:50,900
Yes, I think that the county is interested in pursuing it as a future

2229
03:09:50,900 --> 03:09:51,280
amendment.

2230
03:09:51,280 --> 03:09:59,720
But it actually is in this UDO as a special exception use, only allowed in heavy industrial,

2231
03:10:00,120 --> 03:10:06,100
which really means that the board of zoning appeals would have to basically determine

2232
03:10:06,100 --> 03:10:11,340
site-specific standards for proposed data center use.

2233
03:10:13,240 --> 03:10:19,500
There is, we have talked about this a bunch with staff and there's some pending state legislation

2234
03:10:19,500 --> 03:10:22,960
about data centers that might preempt local regulation.

2235
03:10:24,300 --> 03:10:27,020
So the county wanted to get something out there,

2236
03:10:27,540 --> 03:10:31,800
but I think that everybody was a little uncertain

2237
03:10:31,800 --> 03:10:34,480
about the complexities of making these decisions

2238
03:10:34,480 --> 03:10:38,580
about what to allow or not with data centers

2239
03:10:38,580 --> 03:10:40,940
to include it in the UDO sort of,

2240
03:10:41,180 --> 03:10:43,340
this was one of our last ad hoc meetings.

2241
03:10:44,400 --> 03:10:49,080
And nobody was ready to tackle final decision.

2242
03:10:51,920 --> 03:10:54,080
I think I'm good to stop there.

2243
03:10:57,770 --> 03:10:57,910
Thank you.

2244
03:10:57,910 --> 03:10:59,050
Well, I have you right there.

2245
03:10:59,050 --> 03:11:01,530
Do you mind speaking or finishing the conversation

2246
03:11:01,530 --> 03:11:05,190
about the public comments or the overarching themes?

2247
03:11:05,490 --> 03:11:06,430
Which one of those?

2248
03:11:07,010 --> 03:11:08,770
Other people still have comments.

2249
03:11:09,750 --> 03:11:10,830
To do with the way does that.

2250
03:11:11,750 --> 03:11:12,290
It was just finishing.

2251
03:11:12,530 --> 03:11:13,050
It's earlier coming.

2252
03:11:14,390 --> 03:11:15,090
All right.

2253
03:11:15,390 --> 03:11:18,470
I was really to come back up.

2254
03:11:18,470 --> 03:11:28,050
Man and I'll go over some of the ones and I'm going to give y'all copies of this in section three point eleven point nine point

2255
03:11:28,050 --> 03:11:33,970
See it says see the graphics, but there's a note and no graphics there

2256
03:11:33,970 --> 03:11:38,530
So that is in three point eleven point nine point see

2257
03:11:38,530 --> 03:11:44,850
Graphics are missing. I also had your question about the horses, but being a beekeeper in

2258
03:11:44,850 --> 03:11:57,630
And 3.13.5.2, AP area, a lot size, I was wondering why it was why it was the head to be a minimum of one acre.

2259
03:11:58,050 --> 03:12:01,410
Bees forage over a two to three mile area.

2260
03:12:02,370 --> 03:12:13,350
So, you know, and I can tell you, I can promise you there are 40 people at least in Lancaster County that have 80 B hives on a couple of acres.

2261
03:12:13,350 --> 03:12:20,870
So, you know, I'm like, this needs to be adjusted because it's just, it's just not heavy.

2262
03:12:21,310 --> 03:12:24,970
I understand, I know why they're doing it, and I'm thinking maybe we can add some language

2263
03:12:24,970 --> 03:12:29,930
saying that if it's in an urban or subdivision area, you don't want three houses in a row

2264
03:12:29,930 --> 03:12:31,230
with a B-hive in their backyard.

2265
03:12:31,410 --> 03:12:36,650
I understand what the intent is, but the way it's written right now, you're going to throw a lot

2266
03:12:36,650 --> 03:12:41,470
of these, what are considered low-level commercial beekeepers in Lancaster County,

2267
03:12:41,470 --> 03:12:44,830
you're going to put them out of business and I don't know how many people around here get

2268
03:12:44,830 --> 03:12:49,610
their honey from Dixie B, but Dale will be very distressed if you take all of his B

2269
03:12:49,610 --> 03:12:52,110
halves away because he's really good B keeper.

2270
03:12:54,810 --> 03:13:00,890
In chapters four, nine and sixteen, the section numbers for tree preservation open space

2271
03:13:00,890 --> 03:13:05,050
are wrong, in multiple places and all three of those chapters.

2272
03:13:09,240 --> 03:13:13,980
So I told you I have, I have, I remember saying so I see all these cross references in

2273
03:13:13,980 --> 03:13:25,300
ahead. And this one was, oh, this is a really important one. It's on page 28. Section 4.4.1.

2274
03:13:25,920 --> 03:13:33,540
Point B. Point 1. It says, commercial development is not generally required to provide open space.

2275
03:13:35,440 --> 03:13:42,140
I think people are going to see that and think, oh, it's commercial, but if you go to the very next table, it tells you what the open space requirements are.

2276
03:13:42,140 --> 03:13:48,340
So I think maybe it might, you know, I said, it's not required except for is shown in this table.

2277
03:13:48,640 --> 03:13:54,120
Just some kind of comments that people just don't read that in a Zoom, no comment open space required in commercial.

2278
03:13:54,320 --> 03:14:07,080
I just think that one statement right there just kind of is misleading, especially when the table immediately following it gives you open space requirements in commercial or just somehow or another resolve that.

2279
03:14:09,420 --> 03:14:20,800
4.4.2.D. 0.2, which is on page 231, you said the tree protection plan, the

2280
03:14:20,800 --> 03:14:32,000
compliance was section 1.1.1, tree preservation is not in section 1, but I went through the

2281
03:14:32,000 --> 03:14:35,960
other sections, I'm not sure what section you're referring to, I don't know if it is supposed

2282
03:14:35,960 --> 03:14:39,420
be the regular tree preservation section or not?

2283
03:14:43,670 --> 03:14:43,770
Yep.

2284
03:14:47,310 --> 03:14:48,810
So Section

2285
03:14:51,660 --> 03:14:57,600
8.1.D, then lower KC, it still refers to the Northern

2286
03:14:57,600 --> 03:14:59,980
panel overlay district and there was another

2287
03:15:00,000 --> 03:15:14,800
Please, so you got two places in here. There was another one, but I couldn't go back and find it that still had where those overlays just left over and there, and then my next big one was about the minor and major commercial subdivisions and stutch, but I think we've had plenty of conversation on that.

2288
03:15:16,020 --> 03:15:29,860
Oh, and I do have one other important one, and this is both for staff and for the consultants. So I printed this off of the webpage. These are all the current amendments to, these are all the amendments that we have to.

2289
03:15:29,860 --> 03:15:36,600
current UDO, did anyone ever cross-reference these and make sure that they got into the new

2290
03:15:36,600 --> 03:15:43,820
UDO, like the definition of a large scale grocery, a regional hospital, you know, some of these

2291
03:15:43,820 --> 03:15:51,560
things, did anyone ever cross-reference this and make sure these changes that they got into the

2292
03:15:51,560 --> 03:15:52,660
do you do?

2293
03:15:58,180 --> 03:15:58,180
Okay.

2294
03:16:01,220 --> 03:16:06,760
Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. I just want to make sure somebody was cross

2295
03:16:06,760 --> 03:16:11,640
reference because I would really hate to, we've already made these changes, we need at least

2296
03:16:11,640 --> 03:16:21,200
have a minimum of that going into the new one. Okay. Anyone else? Going once. Going twice.

2297
03:16:21,200 --> 03:16:22,080
So farmers

2298
03:16:29,890 --> 03:16:36,150
markets on page 81, it's singular farmers, and then it's plural for markets.

2299
03:16:36,550 --> 03:16:42,930
So that means one farmer who has several markets, rather than farmers, apostrophe markets.

2300
03:16:43,550 --> 03:16:47,730
Small thing just throughout out there, that a lot of people have trouble with that one.

2301
03:16:48,850 --> 03:16:53,510
Okay, anyone else, with any comments?

2302
03:16:53,850 --> 03:16:54,250
Questions?

2303
03:16:54,250 --> 03:16:56,590
I only have one. I think the planning commission's

2304
03:16:56,590 --> 03:16:59,230
rezoning review deadline went from 35 to 30 days.

2305
03:17:00,190 --> 03:17:00,830
Is that right?

2306
03:17:01,710 --> 03:17:03,150
I don't actually have a note on that.

2307
03:17:03,250 --> 03:17:05,490
I don't know why I didn't put the section that that talks about.

2308
03:17:14,070 --> 03:17:15,690
Sorry, I just have the note to that.

2309
03:17:16,630 --> 03:17:20,330
I think I'm really kind of speaking up the cuff because I don't

2310
03:17:20,330 --> 03:17:22,050
remember exactly making that change.

2311
03:17:23,770 --> 03:17:27,090
But under state law, if you don't make recommendation within

2312
03:17:28,250 --> 03:17:31,530
30 days, you basically lose the right to do it.

2313
03:17:31,530 --> 03:17:35,010
And so, I mean, like, the UDO gives you 35 days.

2314
03:17:35,210 --> 03:17:37,190
The state law doesn't say what does it.

2315
03:17:38,670 --> 03:17:39,570
That makes sense.

2316
03:17:39,670 --> 03:17:43,030
And it means that you basically have agreed

2317
03:17:43,030 --> 03:17:44,990
to whatever the thing is.

2318
03:17:44,990 --> 03:17:46,010
It's not right.

2319
03:17:46,410 --> 03:17:47,730
Let's just say, no leave.

2320
03:17:49,830 --> 03:17:52,370
Any other comments or things?

2321
03:17:52,990 --> 03:17:58,700
All right, so now we give us the categories of comments.

2322
03:17:58,700 --> 03:17:59,320
There we go.

2323
03:17:59,320 --> 03:18:15,740
So in general, we heard lots of comments from the developers' representatives and we have gotten some comments from citizens, frankly, I would say that we do not have as many comments from citizens as I wish we had.

2324
03:18:15,740 --> 03:18:23,900
In general, what we heard from the mostly engineers that work for and design developments

2325
03:18:23,900 --> 03:18:33,320
for developers, their concerns were that the way that the conservation subdivision design

2326
03:18:33,320 --> 03:18:39,520
section will work, they think it will create significant affordability problems for the

2327
03:18:39,520 --> 03:18:39,880
county.

2328
03:18:39,880 --> 03:18:59,760
And the primary thing that they mention is, they think that the lot widths are just too wide to design and construct a development that people other than, you know, kind of custom home builders will build.

2329
03:19:01,400 --> 03:19:08,320
You know, on the flip side, the comments that we hear from, I would say, normal residents

2330
03:19:08,320 --> 03:19:11,820
who are not real estate developers want less development.

2331
03:19:13,180 --> 03:19:16,820
And so, you know, there has to be some balance between those comments.

2332
03:19:18,220 --> 03:19:24,140
You know, in general, I think that we also heard some comments, especially about the size

2333
03:19:25,480 --> 03:19:31,380
of, also back to the sort of clustering, we heard a couple of comments from folks who

2334
03:19:31,380 --> 03:19:35,020
who were interested in keeping some kind of clustering

2335
03:19:35,020 --> 03:19:36,780
option in MDR.

2336
03:19:37,720 --> 03:19:41,440
And I don't really know how anybody would want to do that.

2337
03:19:41,600 --> 03:19:45,600
And when I say how, I don't mean the concept of how

2338
03:19:45,600 --> 03:19:46,580
you would want to implement it.

2339
03:19:46,760 --> 03:19:49,940
Because there are some weaknesses to it now.

2340
03:19:50,700 --> 03:19:54,740
But also, for a land that is currently zoned MDR,

2341
03:19:55,080 --> 03:19:59,160
you may not want to see just straight out conventional development

2342
03:19:59,160 --> 03:20:09,080
in those, or maybe the open space subdivision requirement will sort of ameliorate some of those concerns.

2343
03:20:09,860 --> 03:20:11,980
It's kind of difficult to peg that one.

2344
03:20:14,020 --> 03:20:24,340
We got some comments from commercial developers about stores like dollar stores, dollar general, something like that.

2345
03:20:25,240 --> 03:20:40,460
That the size threshold that we have set of 5,000 square feet for rural business is too small for their footprint, which this wheat spot is like 10 to 12,000 square feet.

2346
03:20:42,460 --> 03:20:48,560
And honestly, I really thought that that was one of the reasons for doing that.

2347
03:20:48,560 --> 03:20:53,660
Because there is some hesitation, and I understand that there are, you know, maybe

2348
03:20:53,660 --> 03:20:59,860
have been dollar stores that have been the subject of public debate, maybe, I don't know.

2349
03:21:01,380 --> 03:21:06,560
And so that is, but, you know, there are lots of folks that live out in a rural area.

2350
03:21:07,260 --> 03:21:11,340
And a store like a dollar general is going to be the store that's closest that they could

2351
03:21:11,340 --> 03:21:15,700
go buy, you know, a loaf of bread or toilet cleaner or whatever you need.

2352
03:21:15,700 --> 03:21:18,160
And now it's prescriptions.

2353
03:21:18,580 --> 03:21:19,780
Do they have prescriptions now?

2354
03:21:20,180 --> 03:21:22,720
That's a big thing in rural areas.

2355
03:21:23,300 --> 03:21:27,160
A lot of dollar generals are now for mail order prescriptions.

2356
03:21:27,580 --> 03:21:32,160
They don't have a pharmacy there, but you can get their stuff delivered there and people

2357
03:21:32,160 --> 03:21:34,100
in like really rural areas.

2358
03:21:34,460 --> 03:21:39,060
So that's a lot of dollar generals are going to where they do prescriptions.

2359
03:21:43,940 --> 03:21:48,820
So, a couple of the other comments, and I'm just kind of summarizing some of these.

2360
03:21:48,820 --> 03:21:51,360
And you know, we'll get you all of these.

2361
03:21:51,400 --> 03:21:58,440
We did get a number of comments about the agricultural uses

2362
03:21:58,440 --> 03:22:01,720
and this horse thing, no idea where this horse thing.

2363
03:22:03,220 --> 03:22:04,040
But it's definitely in the document.

2364
03:22:04,540 --> 03:22:05,000
Anyway,

2365
03:22:07,240 --> 03:22:08,280
let's see.

2366
03:22:09,140 --> 03:22:12,280
We got a couple of comments about outreach

2367
03:22:12,280 --> 03:22:14,720
and needing to communicate better.

2368
03:22:15,060 --> 03:22:15,660
To that again.

2369
03:22:16,000 --> 03:22:17,440
So we got a couple of comments.

2370
03:22:17,440 --> 03:22:26,440
We got four comments about the meeting, framework, and communicating meetings, which was surprising

2371
03:22:26,440 --> 03:22:30,780
since the people that made these comments were at the meetings, like they heard about them.

2372
03:22:31,060 --> 03:22:32,860
But anyway, that was kind of weird.

2373
03:22:33,840 --> 03:22:36,860
There were some questions about MFR and where it's going to be.

2374
03:22:37,080 --> 03:22:39,300
Everybody, I think,

2375
03:22:41,960 --> 03:22:46,480
is willing to consider this, but I think they're also afraid.

2376
03:22:46,480 --> 03:22:54,120
And that's one of the things about this type of development, you know, like, if you say in general,

2377
03:22:55,400 --> 03:22:57,620
our community needs more affordable housing.

2378
03:22:58,160 --> 03:23:00,000
Who thinks that? Everybody puts it there.

2379
03:23:00,820 --> 03:23:07,560
And then if you say, okay, we're going to put affordable housing on the next block from your house.

2380
03:23:08,360 --> 03:23:09,420
Everybody is opposed.

2381
03:23:09,420 --> 03:23:16,300
And so there's some level of specificity where, you know, once you zone to a particular

2382
03:23:16,300 --> 03:23:19,760
parcel, this district, there's going to be opposition to it.

2383
03:23:20,600 --> 03:23:22,540
That's the simple fact of life.

2384
03:23:23,200 --> 03:23:30,600
But the woman who's stood up in spoke, I mean, manufacturer housing has come a long way in

2385
03:23:30,600 --> 03:23:31,400
the last few years.

2386
03:23:31,880 --> 03:23:36,880
There are some that you can see that you can't even tell they're not stick-built.

2387
03:23:38,960 --> 03:23:43,460
Now, usually the biggest thing that gives them the way to be is the pitch of the roof.

2388
03:23:44,020 --> 03:23:46,180
They have a flatter roof and stick belt houses.

2389
03:23:46,360 --> 03:23:48,580
It's usually the pitch of the roof that gives them the way.

2390
03:23:52,050 --> 03:23:52,330
Let's see.

2391
03:23:53,190 --> 03:23:59,530
So, I guess one of the comments that we got from the developers representatives were that really

2392
03:24:00,190 --> 03:24:08,270
the sweet spot for their developments is a 50 by 120 lot for a 6000 square foot lot size.

2393
03:24:09,610 --> 03:24:15,210
You know, and so that's kind of like your, your large, you know, builder,

2394
03:24:16,810 --> 03:24:18,910
portant, linar, those type of guys.

2395
03:24:20,590 --> 03:24:23,770
You know, and I think that striking that balance is really important.

2396
03:24:25,250 --> 03:24:27,970
And the question has always been,

2397
03:24:28,630 --> 03:24:31,430
how much density does the county want to accept.

2398
03:24:32,630 --> 03:24:35,570
And, you know, if you look at a map of,

2399
03:24:36,510 --> 03:24:43,250
I'm going to say that Northern Panhandle, if you look at the county line where there's North

2400
03:24:43,250 --> 03:24:47,970
Carolina and there's Langester County, just look at the development pattern on both sides.

2401
03:24:48,690 --> 03:24:49,650
You know, they're the same pressures.

2402
03:24:50,750 --> 03:24:55,010
There are some additional constraints in Langester County that there aren't right across the

2403
03:24:55,010 --> 03:24:55,130
line.

2404
03:24:56,650 --> 03:25:02,550
You know, basically up to the North Carolina line, the development is uniform and has covered

2405
03:25:02,550 --> 03:25:02,970
everything.

2406
03:25:02,970 --> 03:25:11,130
There are lots of gaps in Lancaster County still, so you have space where you can see more

2407
03:25:11,130 --> 03:25:13,110
of the developments that you want to see, I think.

2408
03:25:13,250 --> 03:25:14,610
So there's room to change.

2409
03:25:15,270 --> 03:25:17,630
But the pressure, the development pressures definitely there.

2410
03:25:17,810 --> 03:25:22,650
And I think that, you know, that turn out at the developer meeting really spoke to that.

2411
03:25:23,690 --> 03:25:24,970
It's, it's surprised me.

2412
03:25:26,130 --> 03:25:29,390
I mean, I talked to somebody from California at this meeting.

2413
03:25:30,770 --> 03:25:31,510
Which,

2414
03:25:35,500 --> 03:25:41,260
you know, so a lot of the citizens were concerned in a general way about coordination

2415
03:25:41,260 --> 03:25:49,540
of development, both with, you know, kind of utilities, water, roads, and in general, you

2416
03:25:49,540 --> 03:25:53,060
know, we think that there's all very important and things the county has to think about,

2417
03:25:53,100 --> 03:25:54,500
but this is just one tool.

2418
03:25:55,440 --> 03:26:00,780
And, you know, I think the county is doing what the county can do by coming up with this now,

2419
03:26:00,780 --> 03:26:06,120
But things like, you know, long-term capital facilities and other things like you might be

2420
03:26:06,120 --> 03:26:08,420
talking about, you know, with the impact fee stuff.

2421
03:26:08,540 --> 03:26:09,460
I think are very important.

2422
03:26:13,020 --> 03:26:20,500
So, like I said, ag uses everybody was thinking that the ag uses are too restrictive, both

2423
03:26:20,500 --> 03:26:23,540
in terms of swine and horses.

2424
03:26:27,840 --> 03:26:34,840
Also, there was some, I would say some comments about connects containers, you know, like

2425
03:26:34,840 --> 03:26:39,400
storage, like shipping containers, a lot of people using for storage.

2426
03:26:40,700 --> 03:26:46,700
They require a buffer under this UDO, and that's new.

2427
03:26:48,240 --> 03:26:53,860
That was a staff request, not not current staff, I'm not going to call out any particular

2428
03:26:53,860 --> 03:26:59,700
of people. But anyway, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll just make a comment about that.

2429
03:26:59,800 --> 03:27:04,820
There is a house on great falls highway, right outside the city limits that have two of

2430
03:27:04,820 --> 03:27:10,380
them ugly contexts is like literally in their front yard using for storage. So, and I mean,

2431
03:27:10,460 --> 03:27:16,500
then they're just, they're hideous. Yes. I think that's the thing. Yeah.

2432
03:27:16,640 --> 03:27:22,460
Got to decide whether, and I mean, great falls highway is, that's, I mean, once you get,

2433
03:27:22,460 --> 03:27:27,420
That's a four lane, actually five lane, four lane, center turn lane, and

2434
03:27:27,420 --> 03:27:29,140
Connex is right there on the road.

2435
03:27:30,440 --> 03:27:30,460
Yeah.

2436
03:27:30,660 --> 03:27:36,100
So I guess to sum up, I would say that the overall theme that we heard was, you know, some complaints

2437
03:27:36,100 --> 03:27:44,220
from residents that the UDO doesn't do enough to preserve land and restrict development.

2438
03:27:44,360 --> 03:27:49,900
And we heard some comments from developers and their representatives that the UDO does

2439
03:27:49,900 --> 03:27:51,600
too much to restrict development.

2440
03:27:53,040 --> 03:27:54,860
And I think it all depends on your perspective.

2441
03:28:00,040 --> 03:28:01,340
One more thing before you leave.

2442
03:28:01,520 --> 03:28:02,840
I would like to add one more thing.

2443
03:28:03,200 --> 03:28:06,940
Thank you, Ms. Clifton, your list here in your comments.

2444
03:28:07,620 --> 03:28:10,640
I would like, I would also like to,

2445
03:28:10,640 --> 03:28:13,780
that when we send this to Council for them,

2446
03:28:14,200 --> 03:28:17,900
especially in the commercial zones to look at buffers

2447
03:28:17,900 --> 03:28:20,840
between some of these commercial zones and residential zones,

2448
03:28:20,840 --> 03:28:27,180
the setbacks and specifically some of the exclusions on the open space requirements.

2449
03:28:27,900 --> 03:28:29,440
I think those are all good suggestions.

2450
03:28:31,240 --> 03:28:38,400
So let's, let's, I'd like to see those readjust and discuss and make sure that they are good and thorough and correct.

2451
03:28:40,530 --> 03:28:41,590
Can I ask one more, Sean?

2452
03:28:43,630 --> 03:28:44,790
I'm sorry, I missed this one.

2453
03:28:44,930 --> 03:28:50,150
In the old year, the parking requirements for a single family home were one per dwelling unit.

2454
03:28:50,150 --> 03:28:56,370
in the new and it's the greater of 1.5 per dwelling unit or 1 per bedroom.

2455
03:28:57,670 --> 03:29:00,750
So a five bedroom house would need five parking spaces.

2456
03:29:03,950 --> 03:29:05,570
How do we get there?

2457
03:29:05,570 --> 03:29:06,250
How do we get there?

2458
03:29:06,330 --> 03:29:07,330
What was the thinking there?

2459
03:29:08,710 --> 03:29:12,810
This is something that the committee has specially talked about a long time.

2460
03:29:13,970 --> 03:29:16,370
And in the drafting phase, what we had come up with was,

2461
03:29:16,370 --> 03:29:22,450
So the basic complaint that we heard and the issue, I would say the problem that was identified

2462
03:29:22,450 --> 03:29:29,790
for us is that based on the setbacks in most developments, coupled with the fact that

2463
03:29:29,790 --> 03:29:32,750
people don't actually park in their garage, because they have a bunch of stuff stored

2464
03:29:32,750 --> 03:29:37,510
in there, that people park on the street, and the streets are too narrow to have people

2465
03:29:37,510 --> 03:29:40,170
park on both sides of the street, and the fire trucks can't get through.

2466
03:29:40,450 --> 03:29:42,190
So that's kind of the baseline of what we heard.

2467
03:29:42,590 --> 03:29:46,350
So we were like, okay, so we can move the setbacks back further, now we don't want to do

2468
03:29:46,350 --> 03:29:47,990
that because then that decrease.

2469
03:29:48,150 --> 03:29:53,230
There was also one more thing is that people are driving bigger vehicles and with the current

2470
03:29:53,230 --> 03:29:57,830
setbacks, you park in your driveway and then the back of your vehicle blocks the side

2471
03:29:57,830 --> 03:29:59,970
walk, which means then the side walk is no longer-

2472
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:02,580
We're accessible, so people are having to walk in the street.

2473
03:30:02,640 --> 03:30:06,120
I see for having a sidewalk, so I'm jealous of that, but I get, I get, no, I get that.

2474
03:30:06,120 --> 03:30:07,980
I've never lived anywhere, they had a sidewalk, so.

2475
03:30:09,220 --> 03:30:15,560
We threw in a couple of wrinkles. One option in one of the drafts was the requirement for

2476
03:30:15,560 --> 03:30:24,900
on street parking. Another option was required satellite parking. With a distance, a maximum distance from

2477
03:30:24,900 --> 03:30:26,160
every house.

2478
03:30:28,060 --> 03:30:32,360
So the committee thought that the satellite parking was expensive and something that people

2479
03:30:32,360 --> 03:30:33,080
wouldn't use.

2480
03:30:33,640 --> 03:30:41,600
And this is kind of an idea that we have used before, you know, there are some people who

2481
03:30:41,600 --> 03:30:47,240
would, you know, want a parking front of the person's house, regardless of whether or

2482
03:30:47,240 --> 03:30:50,360
not, there's a, and they wouldn't want to walk, right?

2483
03:30:50,520 --> 03:30:51,580
There's some people who would.

2484
03:30:51,940 --> 03:30:52,380
I don't know.

2485
03:30:53,480 --> 03:30:59,380
But the goal really was to try to calibrate the parking,

2486
03:31:00,260 --> 03:31:03,380
to the parking met the size of the house,

2487
03:31:04,040 --> 03:31:06,100
mainly because, you know, people have kids that drive,

2488
03:31:06,720 --> 03:31:08,460
and, you know, like, our across the street neighbor,

2489
03:31:08,620 --> 03:31:11,820
they have three kids who are sort of at home,

2490
03:31:12,120 --> 03:31:14,980
college, driving age, and they're all over our street.

2491
03:31:16,380 --> 03:31:18,900
You know, if I lived in a neighborhood where everybody was like that,

2492
03:31:19,100 --> 03:31:22,160
I suspect the street would be difficult for a fire truck.

2493
03:31:22,160 --> 03:31:34,720
So, I think that was really the issue and you know it was the goal was to give some flexibility in the design but also to put the parking requirement on the private law.

2494
03:31:36,690 --> 03:31:39,490
Is there a correlation between that and how it affects lots eyes?

2495
03:31:39,790 --> 03:31:42,970
So as you look at, you look at developers building five bedroom.

2496
03:31:44,390 --> 03:31:47,590
I don't remember what you said 50 by 120, whatever that sweet spot was.

2497
03:31:47,590 --> 03:31:49,610
If you're building a 6,000 square foot house,

2498
03:31:49,670 --> 03:31:52,970
you can easily have five bedrooms or more.

2499
03:31:53,650 --> 03:31:55,850
What does that still, can you actually

2500
03:31:55,850 --> 03:31:57,510
fit that in a 50-foot wide?

2501
03:31:58,790 --> 03:31:59,470
I don't think you're good.

2502
03:31:59,890 --> 03:32:01,810
So do we do a correlation between those?

2503
03:32:01,810 --> 03:32:02,910
Do we have any idea what that looks like

2504
03:32:02,910 --> 03:32:04,150
from a corollary perspective?

2505
03:32:05,570 --> 03:32:07,210
Because it seems like that would create the increased

2506
03:32:07,210 --> 03:32:08,590
lot's sizes.

2507
03:32:09,690 --> 03:32:12,870
With some impact, whether it's significant or not,

2508
03:32:13,130 --> 03:32:14,430
I don't have it sat down down the math.

2509
03:32:15,410 --> 03:32:15,750
Absolutely.

2510
03:32:15,750 --> 03:32:16,550
One

2511
03:32:19,880 --> 03:32:20,980
side of the street?

2512
03:32:21,460 --> 03:32:22,680
I don't know nothing.

2513
03:32:23,520 --> 03:32:25,320
So the issue with that, yes,

2514
03:32:25,840 --> 03:32:26,140
could.

2515
03:32:26,480 --> 03:32:27,340
But the issue is enforcement.

2516
03:32:29,120 --> 03:32:29,240
Yeah.

2517
03:32:29,240 --> 03:32:32,020
The HOA would really be in charge of enforcement for that stuff.

2518
03:32:32,280 --> 03:32:33,080
Because it's.

2519
03:32:33,860 --> 03:32:34,520
I don't know.

2520
03:32:35,420 --> 03:32:36,220
They like an edge water.

2521
03:32:36,400 --> 03:32:38,320
They put out because the streets are narrow there.

2522
03:32:38,440 --> 03:32:39,840
Because if that old development agreement,

2523
03:32:40,960 --> 03:32:43,140
they have the HOA is taking it upon themselves.

2524
03:32:43,460 --> 03:32:44,580
And they've put out signs,

2525
03:32:44,720 --> 03:32:46,040
only parking on one side of the street.

2526
03:32:46,200 --> 03:32:48,700
But then the HOA is responsible for policing.

2527
03:32:48,700 --> 03:32:55,920
it's not in the, it's technically, it's not in the HOA agreement that was filed with the county

2528
03:32:55,920 --> 03:32:58,640
when you moved in there they can't do that.

2529
03:33:01,840 --> 03:33:05,340
I said, because they're not videoing it and it's just

2530
03:33:05,340 --> 03:33:13,360
audio only that's the reason why I'm really pushing it tonight. Now, if the HOA doesn't have that

2531
03:33:13,360 --> 03:33:20,120
in their covenants that are filed with the county, they can't suddenly say after you bought a house

2532
03:33:20,120 --> 03:33:27,460
moved in there. Okay, now we're going to go to one side of the street parking only. They can't

2533
03:33:27,460 --> 03:33:32,600
put it in. It would have to be voted in and no one is going to, you know, unanimously vote

2534
03:33:32,600 --> 03:33:36,900
for that. So I just wondered if there's anything that we could do, but like I said in enforcement,

2535
03:33:38,100 --> 03:33:42,300
okay. When I correlate that with the preliminary plot, which requires parking areas, which means

2536
03:33:42,300 --> 03:33:46,240
that we now have to know how many bedrooms is a house so that we can actually approve a preliminary

2537
03:33:46,240 --> 03:33:54,500
We know if it has the appropriate amount of parking space, and this becomes a very complex requirement.

2538
03:33:55,640 --> 03:33:58,780
And I'm not saying it's wrong or not appropriate or unnecessary.

2539
03:33:59,160 --> 03:34:01,260
I just don't quite know how to logistically make it.

2540
03:34:01,780 --> 03:34:06,380
So, if not edge water because they're under the old UDO, but if someone else came in and gave us this new thing,

2541
03:34:06,540 --> 03:34:10,880
we've got to, and they give us the lots, we say, sorry, you have to tell me what the house is going to be,

2542
03:34:11,020 --> 03:34:14,940
because I can't approve this because I don't even know if you're wide enough in your lots to support six bedrooms.

2543
03:34:14,940 --> 03:34:20,620
maybe instead of putting it one for bedroom just to have a minimum that you have to have

2544
03:34:20,620 --> 03:34:23,900
two or four per house.

2545
03:34:24,100 --> 03:34:27,300
Two isn't anything if you have kids.

2546
03:34:27,980 --> 03:34:28,240
Yes.

2547
03:34:28,700 --> 03:34:29,720
I say sounds like maybe.

2548
03:34:29,960 --> 03:34:31,460
Then that's a good point.

2549
03:34:32,680 --> 03:34:38,980
We can, some things just get to be suddenly you have to have 100 foot wide lot to make sure

2550
03:34:38,980 --> 03:34:40,600
you've got parking for five cars.

2551
03:34:40,680 --> 03:34:41,660
I've got five kids.

2552
03:34:41,900 --> 03:34:42,060
Yeah.

2553
03:34:43,740 --> 03:34:46,960
So I would say clean out your garage, but I don't want you to come out.

2554
03:34:46,960 --> 03:34:48,140
They don't have their own cars.

2555
03:34:48,740 --> 03:34:48,820
Yeah.

2556
03:34:48,820 --> 03:34:49,260
The difference.

2557
03:34:50,420 --> 03:34:54,200
That's another thing maybe ask Council to revisit.

2558
03:34:55,080 --> 03:34:59,020
I still think it needs to be more than the one per dwelling in it.

2559
03:34:59,980 --> 03:35:00,740
I get it.

2560
03:35:00,920 --> 03:35:02,560
But I do completely understand the challenge.

2561
03:35:03,840 --> 03:35:07,780
I think it's good that before we would improve anything,

2562
03:35:08,260 --> 03:35:10,300
I don't see having it down to the minutiae.

2563
03:35:13,190 --> 03:35:13,890
Anything else?

2564
03:35:14,510 --> 03:35:17,030
That was it for me this time for real.

2565
03:35:18,830 --> 03:35:19,070
All right.

2566
03:35:19,590 --> 03:35:23,950
So, I don't know exactly how we're supposed to do this because our votes

2567
03:35:23,950 --> 03:35:27,610
supposed to include all these things that we've talked about and that would

2568
03:35:27,610 --> 03:35:31,430
sit here for another 45 minutes and just name off all those things.

2569
03:35:32,010 --> 03:35:37,850
So, how about I say, I have a motion or I'll make a motion that we approve

2570
03:35:38,950 --> 03:35:46,370
this UDO to go up to Council for consideration, including all of the comments and discussions

2571
03:35:46,370 --> 03:35:50,670
that have gone on now discussing all these different sections and everything.

2572
03:35:50,910 --> 03:35:56,130
I've got a cheerleader out there helping me make sure I cover everything right, which

2573
03:35:56,130 --> 03:35:57,970
cover a variety of things.

2574
03:35:58,430 --> 03:36:03,430
I'm also going to, I will give you all the copy of my comments and stuff.

2575
03:36:03,430 --> 03:36:08,190
if anybody else has theirs written down, just so you can do that.

2576
03:36:10,290 --> 03:36:12,590
All right, I already had a motion to approve with this.

2577
03:36:12,590 --> 03:36:13,450
Okay, comment.

2578
03:36:13,530 --> 03:36:15,710
Okay, I was just glad to make sure that the,

2579
03:36:15,770 --> 03:36:20,770
I guess you need to, you need to modify your motion to include all of these comments and conversations that have happened.

2580
03:36:21,650 --> 03:36:27,970
What was said was, I believe, if I were to include the suggestions and comments.

2581
03:36:28,270 --> 03:36:29,330
Okay, very good.

2582
03:36:29,370 --> 03:36:29,850
Okay, cool.

2583
03:36:30,990 --> 03:36:31,150
All right.

2584
03:36:31,150 --> 03:36:37,190
So we have, we already have a motion, the second that covers that, so it's really late.

2585
03:36:37,250 --> 03:36:42,330
Can we do a show of hands votes and approve of submitting this UDO up to Council for

2586
03:36:42,330 --> 03:36:45,830
Consideration, including all of these comments and covers they just that we had.

2587
03:36:46,130 --> 03:36:51,600
Those in favor passes six to zero.

2588
03:36:52,640 --> 03:36:53,760
Wow, that was hard.

2589
03:36:55,760 --> 03:36:58,780
And if you've got to run Sheila, go ahead and run.

2590
03:36:59,860 --> 03:37:02,260
I have an agenda somewhere here.

2591
03:37:02,900 --> 03:37:05,460
Somewhere in all of these 8,000 pieces of paper.

2592
03:37:06,960 --> 03:37:08,760
No, I'm looking for...

2593
03:37:09,380 --> 03:37:09,740
Here we go.

2594
03:37:09,980 --> 03:37:10,420
An agenda.

2595
03:37:12,640 --> 03:37:13,880
Thank you, everyone.

2596
03:37:15,000 --> 03:37:16,580
We have another on there.

2597
03:37:16,740 --> 03:37:19,080
Do we have any other that we need to discuss tonight?

2598
03:37:19,800 --> 03:37:24,700
So, no others, so do I have a motion to adjourn unless anybody else has anything

2599
03:37:24,700 --> 03:37:25,900
that need to add real quick?

2600
03:37:26,120 --> 03:37:26,460
Oh, moved.

2601
03:37:26,800 --> 03:37:27,080
So moved.

2602
03:37:27,220 --> 03:37:27,700
We have a second?

2603
03:37:28,220 --> 03:37:28,620
Yeah.

2604
03:37:28,840 --> 03:37:29,020
Immediately.

2605
03:37:29,640 --> 03:37:30,740
Vote to adjourn.

2606
03:37:30,820 --> 03:37:31,400
All in favor?

2607
03:37:31,820 --> 03:37:31,880
Yes.

2608
03:37:32,280 --> 03:37:32,700
All in favor.

2609
03:37:32,980 --> 03:37:33,860
Pass us five to zero.

2610
03:37:34,700 --> 03:37:35,360
Run away, everybody.